2020-05-08

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/05/08/latest-news-24/
Published2020-05-08T14:02:16
Last updated2020-05-08T14:58:15
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:03
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3938 ScuzzaMan, replying to ScuzzaMan, 31, #1 of 338 🔗

The people of Britain can decide when to leave the EU but not when to leave their own house.

3945 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to ScuzzaMan, 56, #2 of 338 🔗

We think we’re going to have a family barbecue, you can’t catch it outside, this has gone on long enough, my dad’s dementia is getting worse, my brother, his wife and the kids are fed up, I’m in with the oldies going round the bend, why not, what are they gonna do, water cannon us?

4014 ▶▶▶ Alci, replying to BecJT, 23, #3 of 338 🔗

I’m just back from a lovely few days at my mum’s, 200 miles south, with my two young children (husband had to work). Roads are gloriously quiet – motoring as it used to be! Highly recommended.

4017 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 7, #4 of 338 🔗

I don’t blame you. Encountered some of my customers while visiting my shop earlier. They (and they are in the ‘vulnerable’ group) are keen to get back.

4367 ▶▶▶ ChrisH29, replying to BecJT, #5 of 338 🔗

I love to come – I’d bring some decent wine …

4041 ▶▶ IanE, replying to ScuzzaMan, 4, #6 of 338 🔗

You say that, but if it takes as long to effect un-lockdown as Brexit then we really are french connectioned!

3943 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 7, #7 of 338 🔗

Risk factors for COVID-19 death revealed in world’s largest analysis of patient records to date
Largest study to date, analysing NHS health data from 17.4 million UK adults between 01 February 2020 and 25 April 2020, has given the strongest evidence to date on risk factors associated with COVID-19 death.
Among the 17.4 million adults in the sample, there were 5,707 deaths in hospitals attributed to COVID-19.

How’d you like that maths!?

https://opensafely.org/press-releases/2020/05/covid-risk-factors/

3960 ▶▶ Maud Boggins, replying to BecJT, 6, #8 of 338 🔗

Whatever this report reveals does take into consideration the thousands of deaths misrecorded ie all those marked down as Covid whomtested negatuve or weren’t tested at all?

4018 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Maud Boggins, 2, #9 of 338 🔗

I don’t know, but it’s still pretty convincing, massive cohort, tiny amount of death.

4020 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BecJT, 1, #10 of 338 🔗

Yes but the 17m were not positive for SARS2. We already know what percentage of the total population have officially died with Covid-19 in the UK. It’s about 0.05%.

4042 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to guy153, 1, #11 of 338 🔗

But not the percentage that died due to covid!

4049 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to BecJT, 5, #12 of 338 🔗

17.4 million. Now where have I seen that number before?

4181 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #13 of 338 🔗

Woh….!!! ‘The 17.4 million’….What. the. fuck

3949 Roger Tame, replying to Roger Tame, 13, #14 of 338 🔗

Do the University of East Anglia explain why closing schools was one of the effective measures for controlling the spread of the virus. It seems to go against the evidence regarding children and their resistance to it.

3957 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Roger Tame, 3, #15 of 338 🔗

It also goes against sage’s own data and modelling, I’ve read the doc, will try post it once I’ve found, quite a shocking read.

3962 ▶▶ scepticalsue, replying to Roger Tame, 9, #16 of 338 🔗

I’m confused by this too, according to a report in the Telegraph there are no documented cases of a child passing the virus on to another person – not just in the UK but worldwide. Surely this suggests that there is a very low risk of children contracting the virus or potentially spreading it to others?

3970 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Roger Tame, #17 of 338 🔗
3983 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Roger Tame, 20, #18 of 338 🔗

It would be good to see the report. Might be that schools were closed simultaneously with other measures?

However, in real world evidence cases of children transmitting the disease are hard to find and a Western Australian study concluded that teachers were more in danger in the staff room than the classroom.

In light of lack of evidence, it is a disproportionate action against a generation who are being harmed by this lockdown. Apart from the obvious lack of education, children are being denied a social life, proper (and age appropriate) physical recreation and safety and food in the case of some. It is an unprecedented and ill-considered experiment into the effects of long house arrest on the mental, physical and (extremely important in these circumstances!) immunological development of an entire generation. On top of that they will suffer the many and terrible effects of the catastrophic damage being done to the economy unless there is a miraculous recovery.

Even assuming that the closure of school is effective at slowing the spread of the disease, it is arguably better policy to open them after half term and not delay until September. Vulnerable children need to be in contact with teachers and care workers. The schools need a dress rehearsal of the inevitable and questionable distancing diktats prior to September. A short opening would allow the government to collect real world data, as advised by Oxford CEBM. In the life span of a 10 year old, the reacquaintance, albeit briefly, with the school routine has innumerable benefits when compared to a 6 month absence. I could go on….

4065 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to GLT, #19 of 338 🔗

I do not think distancing diktats are inevitable in September.

4132 ▶▶▶▶ GLT, replying to JohnB, 3, #20 of 338 🔗

I hope you’re right! I’ve listened to too much discussion of a ‘new normal’ to feel confident that common sense will return.

4043 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Roger Tame, 2, #21 of 338 🔗

Mothers meeting at the gates? Or perhaps the teacher’s unions have influenced the researcher’s thinking?!!

3951 Maud Boggins, replying to Maud Boggins, 36, #22 of 338 🔗

Really disappointed to see Dr Judy Mikovits’ video interview on You Tube being described as her something in which “she sets out a conspiracy theory” between the Gates Foundation and the global vaccination programme.

She is not setting out any “theory”, she is reciting her truly terrifying and egregious experiences and it’s quite obvious she’s a very bright, very experienced and very genuine lady.

What will it take for us to stop casting jusgements on those who expose certain elites when they act in an underhand manner? Why are people like Dr. Mikovitz automatically viewed with such undeserved beady-eyed suspicion? Why do we automatically label anyone a “conspiracy theorist” who is able to furnish us with details the mainstream Media cannot, and would likely refuse to do even if it could for fear of spreading “misinformation”.

This video had been taken down on grounds of “misinformation”. On whose say so exactly? Had anybody proved what she’s saying to be untrue? The term is being bandied about willy-Milly of late directed at anyone who goes against the narrative of the accused. Why hasn’t Fauci given an interview defending his position against her accusations? They should be placed head to head for the people to decide.

I recall a certain Prime Minister being called out as a liar for taking us into a period of military’s unrest back in 2003 on a false pretext… it’s highly likely that wouldn’t have happened in the current climate because we seem to be so utterly willing to believe anyone in any position of power could never act in a reprehensible or shady manner. I just do not m me what’s happened to us all.

If we continue to label people like Dr. Mikovitz simply because what she’s saying sounds so appalling and on that basis discredit her immediately, then we’re heading for the end of scrutiny of those who most require it. There is only one place we can go after that, and that’s the end of the common good.

I sit here on VE Day remembering fondly my best friend of 20 years, a Naval veteran tasked with dropping spies off the coast of France and collecting those SOEs who had completed their missions. I recall his opinion of modern Britain before he passed in January; “Darling, we’ve had the best of it. We lost millions of chaps fighting for liberty and freedom and now they all want to give both of those up! Place has gone bloody ga-ga!”

RIP Tony Byrd RNVR 1925-2020

4024 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Maud Boggins, 17, #23 of 338 🔗

I’m afraid anyone who goes against BigPharma is treated in this way. For deeply tragic/personal reasons, I have had cause to investigate their motives and the efficacy of their so-called treatments and what I discovered was truly horrifying. It’s instructive to remember that many medical breakthroughs were the result of the maverick speaking out against a powerful elite. It’s been happening for many, many years, sadly.

And, can I say, what a lovely tribute to your friend. My grandfather fought in WW2. He died 27 years ago and my only comfort is that he isn’t around to see our so-called leaders trashing every freedom that he and his comrades fought and died for.

4113 ▶▶▶ Maud Boggins, replying to kh1485, 1, #24 of 338 🔗

Thank you KH. VE hasnt been a great day for me as we should have been in Dartmouth this weekend for a dedicated fly past. So sad. They don’t make him like him anymore.

I Wish I could contact you as I’m involved in reasearch in corruption in this exact field so what you say is of particular interest. I hope Toby will allow this message to go through so you can drop me a line but I’m at Stork for Life.

4129 ▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Maud Boggins, 6, #25 of 338 🔗

The corruption runs deep. Simply Google “drug company + fraud” and you can spend many a happy hour trawling through the cesspits of Pharma’s callous disregard for life in the pursuit of profits. They make the banksters look like choirboys.

Fiona if you are researching this I assume you’re familiar with epidemiologist Professor Peter Gotzsche, whose book “Deadly Medicines and Organised Crime” quite literally calls the Pharma industry an Organised Crime Syndicate, using all the time-honoured methods employed by the Mafia and the Triads.

Here is his website: https://www.deadlymedicines.dk

The foreword to Gotzsche’s book is by Dr Richard Smith, former editor of the British Medical Journal, another vocal opponent of Pharma who was on record as stating that 75% of all published medical research is fraudulent because of undeclared vested interests and ghostwritten papers.

Another former editor of a leading medical journal, Dr Marcia Angell of the New England Journal of Medicine, has called out Pharma’s corruption and has published her own book on the subject.

It is for this reason that I fear we cannot dismiss out of hand the possibility that a gigantic Pharma power-grab (compulsory vaccinations) may be driving the agenda behind this pandemic. It would be nothing more than”business as usual” for these guys.

Read ’em and weep:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deadly-Medicines-Organised-Crime-Healthcare/dp/1846198844

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Truth-about-Drug-Companies-Deceive/dp/0375760946/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=marcia+angell&qid=1588973457&sr=8-1

4242 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Gracie Knoll, 1, #26 of 338 🔗

Thank you so much for all this information. Dispiriting to read though that even Cochrane has now been discredited …

4292 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Welsh, replying to kh1485, 1, #27 of 338 🔗

“Nihil tam munitum quod non expugnari pecunia possit”. (“No fortification is so strong that it cannot be overcome with money”).

– Cicero

4220 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Maud Boggins, 4, #28 of 338 🔗

Thanks Fiona. Sorry I am late to this. If Toby is reading this, I would be more than happy for you to contact me. I feel like I have been rather howling in the wind about this (the BigPharma issue). And as for Gracie’s suggestion that we may be subject to compulsory vaccination, quite frankly, I would rather die (sounds over dramatic, I know, but I just don’t trust BigPharma with my health).

4277 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 2, #29 of 338 🔗

Good attitude, KH.

Personally, I shall be trying to take anyone who comes towards me with a loaded syringe with me.

4393 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave, replying to JohnB, #30 of 338 🔗

Personally I’m more worried about unloaded syringes. Turns out that the UK is now thinking of antibody tests which need a large volume of blood taken by a trained phlebotomist ratehr than a tiny needle prick. I’ve got some serious neeedle-phobia and it’s even worse for the big needles they draw blood out wit than the small oens they pump vacciens in with. If they’re going to need a bllod test for an immunity passport my immunity passport will be a copy of magna-carta and refusal to comply with any busybody who thinks that our “state of crisis” with this pretty mild virus somehow over-rules the principles laid down by the rebel barons in 1215 or by the UN human rights declaration afetr WW2 ended. And when a vaccine coems round, please do read this next bit automatd crawlers looking for what policies will be popular, I’ll only be taking it if it is a slap on patch, not a needle. A slap on patch can also be posted to households in the regular mail, no need for special refrigerated delivery to doctor’s surgeries which slows vaccine use in the developing world.

4293 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Welsh, replying to kh1485, 8, #31 of 338 🔗

“And as for Gracie’s suggestion that we may be subject to compulsory vaccination, quite frankly, I would rather die…”

My feelings exactly. Apart from justifiable apprehension as to what the contents of the syringe might do to me, it would mean that this is no longer a free country in any sense of the word, and that I am no longer a free person in any sense of the word.

4291 ▶▶▶ Tom Welsh, replying to kh1485, 4, #32 of 338 🔗

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr explains this in some depth in his superb Foreword to Dr Mikovitz’s and Dr Heckenlively’s book “Plague of Corruption” (strongly recommended!)

Kennedy discusses ‘what social scientists call the “Semmelweis reflex.” This term describes the knee-jerk revulsion with which the press, the medical and scientific community, and allied financial interests greet new scientific evidence that contradicts an established scientific paradigm. The reflex can be particularly fierce in cases where new scientific information suggests that established medical practices are actually harming public health.

‘The real-life plight of Ignaz Semmelweis, a Hungarian physician, inspired the term and Ibsen’s play. In 1847, Dr. Semmelweis was an assistant professor at Vienna’s General Hospital maternity clinic, where around 10 percent of women died from puerperal “birth bed” fever. Based on his pet theory that cleanliness could mitigate transmission of disease-causing “particles,” Semmelweis introduced the practice of mandatory hand washing for interns between performing autopsies and delivering babies. The rate of fatal puerperal fever immediately dropped to around 1 percent. Semmelweis published these findings.

‘Rather than building a statue to Semmelweis, the medical community, unwilling to admit culpability in the injury of so many patients, expelled the doctor from the medical profession. His former colleagues tricked Dr. Semmelweis into visiting a mental institution in 1865, then committed him against his will. Semmelweis died mysteriously two weeks later. A decade afterward, Louis Pasteur’s germ theory and Joseph Lister’s work on hospital sanitation vindicated Semmelweis’s ideas’.

4303 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tom Welsh, #33 of 338 🔗

Exactly. I have just read two excellent books about Semmelweis, prompted by my research into the medical establishment. Trying to take them on is a dispiriting occupation.

4320 ▶▶▶▶ John Moore, replying to Tom Welsh, #34 of 338 🔗

There are a number of so-called ‘scientific’ ideas that have acquired the status of sacred cow orthodoxies. Dissenting voices, even those coming from distinguished people in their field, are not tolerated by the scientific establishment. This intolerance is routinely unleashed against scientists who dare to question climate change orthodoxy, or who point out the glaring absurdities of Darwinism. Now we have another sacred cow with C19, which we’re told is such a danger to civilisation that basic human freedoms have to be taken away.

4288 ▶▶ Tom Welsh, replying to Maud Boggins, 1, #35 of 338 🔗

‘Really disappointed to see Dr Judy Mikovits’ video interview on You Tube being described as her something in which “she sets out a conspiracy theory” between the Gates Foundation and the global vaccination programme’.

‘This video had been taken down on grounds of “misinformation”. On whose say so exactly?’

The Gates Foundation and the global vaccination programme, presumably.

You’re not paranoid if they really are out to get you.

4296 ▶▶ Tom Welsh, replying to Maud Boggins, 3, #36 of 338 🔗

In fact modern government and corporate culture is nothing more or less than a comprehensive tissue of conspiracy.

Thus a “conspiracy theorist” is anyone who is not blind or unwilling to see.

3971 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 26, #37 of 338 🔗

Link to another video (Dr. Erickson and Dr. Massihi) banned by YouTube (see bottom of article) https://www.naturalhealth365.com/stay-at-home-covid-19-3389.html

“Why does the media NOT want citizens to know this? Doctors censored over questioning of California stay at home policy? According to sources, the interview with Dr. Erickson and Dr. Massihi was deleted off YouTube after it accumulated about 5 million views. What’s the real reason these doctors are being censored?

YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki recently announced in an interview that the platform will ban “anything that goes against” the current COVID-19 recommendations from the World Health Organization. In the late April interview with CNN, Wojcicki used frighteningly vague terms to describe YouTube’s new platform policies, including “removing information that is problematic” and removing “anything that is medically unsubstantiated” from the site.

But keep in mind: these doctors aren’t espousing some highly questionable treatment or claiming to have found a “cure” for COVID-19. They are simply questioning government policies, based on their professional clinical opinions and direct experience with the infectious disease.

Yet suddenly, according to YouTube, expressing this type of criticism isn’t allowed?

Let’s not allow these voices of reason and concern to go unheard. Let’s make sure we all can make informed decisions based on the most information we can gather for ourselves. Let’s not let media censor ideas that challenge the status quo…which these days is starting to look quite a lot like governmental infringement on our basic rights.”

4123 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Victoria, 2, #38 of 338 🔗

I watched that very video on youTube today . It was had been in my ‘watch later’ library for days and hadn’t been taken down at 2pm today. I’m no fan of YouTube’s policing but we need to be accurate. (Just checked and it’s still there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f0VRtY9oTs&t=1821s )

4149 ▶▶▶ Paul B, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 2, #39 of 338 🔗

This is the description for that video Nigel:

Perspectives on the Pandemic – Episode 6: When Dr. Dan Erickson and Dr. Artin Massihi held a press conference on April 22nd about the results of testing they conducted at their urgent care facilities around Bakersfield, California, the video, uploaded by a local ABC news affiliate, went viral. After reaching five million views, YouTube took it down on the grounds that it “violated community standards.” We followed up with the doctors to determine what was so dangerous about their message. What we discovered were reasonable and well-meaning professionals whose voices should be heard.

3976 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 25, #40 of 338 🔗

Anyone wishing to contact Dominic Raab and Matt Hancock to let them know their thoughts about lockdown, can do so here:

dominic.raab.mp@parliament.uk
matt.hancock.mp@parliament.uk

Send them your thoughts in an email, even if only for cathartic effect. Tweet them. Shout at them. Stalk them. (Actually maybe don’t do that.) Just for goodness’ sake do something.

We are being run by a dictatorial style government and it has become like North Korea in the U.K.

4000 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to RDawg, 18, #41 of 338 🔗

I wonder which goon will be sent to lecture us tonight? They are truly cretins.

4066 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to coalencanth12, 3, #42 of 338 🔗

What would you call people who voluntarily listen to a lecture by a goon ? 🙂

4125 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to RDawg, 3, #43 of 338 🔗

I wrote to Hancock at that address and got an automatic reply saying basically bog off because I’m not one of his constituents.

3981 Biker, 2, #44 of 338 🔗

I’m tired of trotting out the dubious Churchill and we won the war nonsense. We ended up with no empire, American army in our country and part of some euro superstate so how did we win the war? We’re a beaten people dumb enough to believe the propaganda and have been sleep walking into this nightmare for years. People are openly supporting constant monitoring of you for ever without batting an eye lid. This takeover of humanity is so disgusting that it won’t be long before we’ll need a resistance and a real war for freedom will have to take place. The people of Europe whom want a normal human life will have to fight those who want to monitor and lock us up. This will not be pretty and lives will be lost. Mark my words we’re gonna see these lunatics in government tell the military to open fire on the people when they are protesting. When this happens we will have a civil war.
Oh and a quick word you’d better prepare for food shortages in the next coming days. By the middle of next week you’ll not be able to buy tea bags, sugar, pasta, rice,toilet paper, fresh veg, most meat products, fizzy juice, cereals and biscuits. So all those who support this lockdown are gonna start to feel the reality. Another couple of weeks after that we’ll see soup kitchens everywhere. How are we gonna get them to stop with this? If you’re middle class and have been clapping like a fool they’re coming for your wealth next. This is being done to turn the west into the slave camp that China is. Mark these words because this is the future. Life as we know it has gone and won’t be returning without a war that’s gonna make the last war look like a minor tiff. These dystopia films that have been promoted for the last thirty years were them showing you what is coming. I’m telling you they know the planet is finished if they don’t reduce humanity to five hundred million and do it now. When Morrissey asked how soon is now, well now is here.

3990 Victoria, 5, #45 of 338 🔗

The NYT article slamming Dr Judy Mikovits states “Suggesting that wearing a mask can make you sick could lead to imminent harm, so we’re removing the video, a Facebook spokeswoman said.” Who gives Facebook the right to censor what we can see? So now Facebook knows better than a well respected scientist?

The following link has three very informative interview videos with Dr Mikovits https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/05/03/is-the-new-coronavirus-created-in-a-lab.aspx

‘Dr Mikovits is also highly critical of the recommendation (and in some places mandate) to wear a face mask or fabric cover such as a bandana around your face. She believes:

“Wearing a mask is going to cause more secretions and give more cells a home and amplify any viruses. [Wearing a mask is] immune suppressive; it’s going to limit your body’s ability to produce Type 1 interferon.

You’re driving the infection in yourself and you’re not preventing the spread. [Instead], you’re amplifying [replication of] not just [SARS-CoV-2] but also many other [viruses], including your XMRVs, influenza or other dormant viruses.

What keeps those dormant viruses dormant? Your natural killer (NK) cells, your mast cells, your macrophages. That’s where you’re getting the inflammatory signature.

So, every virus you amplify is driving the inflammatory signature, and you’re going to get sick. [The resulting illness] doesn’t have to be SARS-CoV-2 at all. You’re making yourself sick [by bringing dormant viruses out of dormancy]. It’s insanity.”

Wearing a face mask after getting a live flu vaccine may further worsen your odds, she says. Why? Because you’re injecting three or more live flu virus strains into your body, which lowers your immune function. You’re also going to shed the viruses contained in the vaccine. If you wear a mask, Mikovits says, you’ll shed those viruses into the mask, which could encourage illness.

On the other hand, not wearing one might jeopardize the health of others. “If you’re shedding [the viruses] into the air, you’re going to make somebody else get another upper respiratory infection that’s going to allow [SARS-CoV-2] to make them sicker,” she warns.’

3995 GLT, replying to GLT, 5, #46 of 338 🔗

Regarding the Plandemic video, the maker is a great story teller but how much is true, I have no idea. What is true however, is the claim in the movie regarding a 2017/2018 study of flu vaccinations in US army personnel. The original research was unearthed from the archives and reviewed here https://massagehealth.co.uk/915-2/ . It was a large scale study of 12000 service personnel and showed that vaccination against influenza was effective against the flu (as you would expect) but increased the chances of becoming infected with a corona virus.
This tells us nothing necessarily useful about this Corona virus but it is an example of the ‘law of unintended consequences’ and it also exemplifies the difficult task we all have separating truth from fiction.
It might also be a lesson in the necessity of making difficult trade-offs in life.

4035 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to GLT, #47 of 338 🔗

Interestingly it the flu vaccine became compulsory in Italy last year.

4070 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Victoria, 5, #48 of 338 🔗

Well that’s interesting, seeing as every time I’ve had the flu jab (three years in a row thanks to my boss who hates paying people for being sick) it’s made no difference and I’ve got ill anyway.

(I say this to people and they start calling me an anti-vaxxer. Listen. I’ve had every vaccination going. I even went to the doctor’s and voluntarily had the HPV vaccine at the age of 22, so…. don’t call me an anti-vaxxer. Unless you mean vaccination against minor seasonal diseases that are unlikely to affect me badly until I’m old – then yes, I’m anti-vax. BECAUSE IT IS NOT NECESSARY)

4138 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Farinances, 2, #49 of 338 🔗

Where we used to live was even worse, they would call in all the old folks for their flu jab at the same time and leave them sat around the waiting room for a couple of hours exchanging other viruses so even if the flu jab worked, which it often didn’t, they would still get ill from something else.

4093 ▶▶▶ giampi, replying to Victoria, 5, #50 of 338 🔗

being an Italian GP I can tell you that’s obviously fake
is still freedom to choose about flu vaccine
of course is free for over 65 and for chronic patients
maybe you read about pediatric vaccinations

4130 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to GLT, 4, #51 of 338 🔗

If medical practices really are doing that – and I’d be grateful to see some evidence – then there really is a conspiracy going on. It’s well known (as you say) that Vit D protects against respiratory illnesses.

4134 ▶▶ chris c, replying to GLT, 1, #52 of 338 🔗

Vitamin C too, they are using it in high (intravenous) doses in China and even the US with some success, but not here.

There’s some evidence of vitamin D level being correlated with seriousness of covid infection, and with other respiratory viruses, and it very likely ties in with the increased danger to black people who generate less from sunlight. Might be a good cheap idea to supply vitamin D to BAME people in the NHS and see if that helps. But then the idiots would probably use D2 not D3 to “prove” it didn’t work. Oh and of course statins reduce cholesterol and the synthesis of cholecalciferol but they will never look at statin use and severity of covid.

4143 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to chris c, 6, #53 of 338 🔗

Vitamin C in megadoses (not a glass of orange juice!) has been a known antiviral agent since the 1930s. Never followed up > not patentable > no money to be made. (Same old feckin’ story.)

The doses are huge; anything from 10,000-100,000mg daily, intravenous. In this situation vitamin C is no longer being used as a nutrient but as a drug; but a very non-toxic one.

When I was at college I read the key papers published by the original researchers – Fred Klenner MD, Robert Cathcart MD, Nobel Laureate (x2) Linus Pauling PhD, Irwin Stone MD and others.

These may still be available on PubMed if the Thought Police haven’t got to them yet.

A modern synopsis is “Ascorbate: the Science of Vitamin C” by biophysicist Dr. Steve Hickey. (Amazon has it.)

Interestingly, research by Hickey has shown that oral megadoses may be as effective as the IV version, if these doses are taken as a “dynamic flow”.

Hickey has an excellent video here:

https://youtu.be/4aAduHqq7Vs

The “censoring” of such information goes way beyond “protecting the public from quackery”. It’s only “quackery” to the wilfully ignorant or the criminally disingenuous. This feels like straightforward suppression of anything that could reduce the public’s need for a vaccine. If such is the case, then such censorship is a crime against humanity.

4379 ▶▶ OpenCorona, replying to GLT, 1, #54 of 338 🔗

“Receiving influenza vaccination may increase the risk of other respiratory viruses, a phenomenon known as virus interference.”
“Other viruses” included coronavirus, human metapneumovirus, parainfluenza, and respiratory syncytial virus.”
See these two studies; I am sure there are more:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3404712/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X19313647?via%3Dihub

4618 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to OpenCorona, #55 of 338 🔗

Nice to be vindicated in my recent avoidance of the flu jab lol

4004 TyRade, 1, #56 of 338 🔗

can’t wait for the considered judgment of Emily Thornberry on the deplorable white van man’s spelling. “He’s from Rochester”?

4005 coalencanth12, replying to coalencanth12, 24, #57 of 338 🔗

I reflect today on my grandfathers, both of whom were in the Merchant Navy during WWII, an often underappreciated role. They continued sailing the seas well into the 1980’s, bringing back tales of derring-do in far-away places the locals in my medium sized Welsh town could barely comprehend. They were witness to the post-war decline of Britain, which for better or worse once ruled the waves, and I fear we stand at another cross-roads. I greatly fear that we will see an slow transition out of lockdown into some god-forsaken world of impractical social distancing which will destroy our society and economy, leaving us as some isolated, angst ridden island on the periphery of Europe. The disconnect I see between the behaviour of the public I have witnessed on my daily ‘Hancock’ and these surveys of ‘terrified’ people, I don’t know what to make of. Something is going very wrong here and I’m not sure what. I suspect it involves both the working and middle classes spending all day at home in the pleasant weather, self-medicating with voluminous quantities of alcohol, whilst ignoring the bits of the Hancock’s they don’t like – a friend of mine sent me a picture of the alcohol mountain him and his wife intend to consume this weekend. To be fair, most of my colleagues have done their own risk-assessment, which in some cases does mean a bit more careful.

To my mind, the next stage of our fight should be resisting the ‘new normal’ and ensuring this catastrophe never, ever, happens again. I think our best hope in the short term is our fellow Europeans and the USA make a reasonably smooth exit of their lockdown measures. If Brits see other nations enjoying themselves the lockdown will soon fray.

The sheer idea that BorisBuffoonClown or any of the rest of that collection of garbage called ‘cabinet’* could fill the shoes of Churchill is lamentable (Sunak may, may, possibly, be of interest). I cannot escape the feeling that the lockdown will end up being a ’45 minutes’ style watershed. BoJo better watch it – his backbenchers seem to be getting restless and his performance against Starmer the other today wasn’t exactly inspiring – he’s not dealing with Corbyn anymore!

4045 ▶▶ IanE, replying to coalencanth12, 9, #58 of 338 🔗

Yes, Boris has had his Churchill moment – and, at the first press conference, I thought he had stepped up to the role! How long before he demonstrated himself as a complete wet blanket – 2 or 3 days was it? Of course that was only to be expected, given HS2 and Huawei: the only question now is when does he reverse Brexit?

4326 ▶▶▶ John Moore, replying to IanE, #59 of 338 🔗

Stop jumping on the cowardly Boris-bashing bandwagon.

4324 ▶▶ John Moore, replying to coalencanth12, -1, #60 of 338 🔗

You are a clown if you think Boris is a clown — he’s clearly no such thing.

4010 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 9, #61 of 338 🔗

Who on earth is choosing the public questions for the daily plague update? Tonight’s efforts – will Brexit be going ahead and how can old folk cope with a smartphone app. Surely someone must be asking more skeptical questions.

4012 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Hammer Onats, 27, #62 of 338 🔗

It’s like some kind of authoritarian show trial,

‘Hi, Dave from Lincoln, what’s your question?’
‘Thank you for the chance to ask this. I wanted to know, if schools open, how we will we know our children are safe?’
‘Thanks Dave, that’s a great question! I want to reassure you that we won’t open schools until we know it is absolutely safe to do so.’
‘Thank you so much, Minister!’

Names have been changed to protect the innocent!

If it was designed to reassure, I, for one am anything but reassured.

4047 ▶▶▶ jeff, replying to GLT, 15, #63 of 338 🔗

Nothing has ever been or will ever be absolutely safe, and we face much bigger risks every day than covid-19. Time to go out and take the risks for ourselves.

4055 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to jeff, 9, #64 of 338 🔗

I so agree. But most of the people I encounter (save for older people) have been reduced to supine acquiescence. They don’t seem to *want* to think about this in a rational/sensible way, let alone consider what the dire consequences of the continued lockdown will be.

4079 ▶▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to GLT, 25, #65 of 338 🔗

I’m reminded of Lyn from Skipton’s recent question as to ‘when she might get to hug her grand-kids’ .
Whitty basically said that if she was in a vulnerable group to stay away, possibly indefinately.
I didn’t see Lyn’s face, but I’ll bet it was a heart-rending mixture of dismay and despair.
Speaking as a GP and Occ Health Physician, I really, really wish some of us less bloody clever/politically astute bog-standard doctors – who can apply common sense, proportion, and effectively communicate risk (as we need to do all the time in GP) – had some input into this disasterous pantomime.

4083 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to GetaGrip, 15, #66 of 338 🔗

Jesus just hug your grandkids Lyn! Hug them! Nothing bad will happen!!

4038 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Hammer Onats, 10, #67 of 338 🔗

Sceptical questions won’t see the light of day on the briefing. As for that Brexit question today, that was akin to wondering what colour you’re going to paint your living room while you’re watching you’re house burn down. Brexit is but a dot of an issue next to living among a population of gullible subservients begging for house arrest to be extended deep into the summer, if opinion polls are to be trusted. 82% according to YouGov! I am beginning to wonder though, if people who do not want lockdown to be extended are less likely to take part in these polls. Victims of domestic abuse, no small number by any means, are more likely to be isolated within isolation, therefore less likely to be taking part in polls. Mental health sufferers- I know several people struggling but have wisely reduced, or eliminated entirely, all news coronavirus related, so again their views are not heard. Pro- lockdowners on the other hand are increasingly militant and let everyone else know damn sure what they think.

4075 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Albie, 2, #68 of 338 🔗

Opinion polls are not to be trusted. Hth.

4135 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Albie, 4, #69 of 338 🔗

As I understand it you have to be registered with YouGov to be sampled in their polls and what rightful dissident would want to be registered with that bunch of jokers?

4048 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #70 of 338 🔗

I have my doubts these are ‘real’ questions from the public. I’ve thought about putting in a few myself. I suspect this is more part of BoJo’s hatred of MSM.

4015 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 36, #71 of 338 🔗

I’m beginning to despair. Today, in the supermarket, there was a man probably in his 20s but hard to tell given he was wearing full surgery suit, face mask and goggles, and surgical gloves. Last week, I waited patiently at the checkout while another young man loaded his many shopping bags, one-handed, presumaby to halve his chances of contamination. This afternoon, a mother and her, what 4 years old? daughter, in the park, in the open air, with mathing face masks. Another walker, looking like a cross between Dick Turpin and the Invisible Man.
I’ve written to my MP, tried to pursuade friends and family but nothing is changing. If rumours are to be believed, tomorrow’s PM’s address to the nation will bring little relief. That light at the end of the tunnel is truly an oncoming train.

4044 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Fiat, 2, #72 of 338 🔗

I know time is going along rather slowly, but at my last count the PM was to speak on Sunday (day after tomorrow) – but what do I know, my mind is definitely questioning itself along with reality!

4081 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fiat, 6, #73 of 338 🔗

Yes. Weird that the park was busy today but the only people wearing masks were four young men in their late teens/early twenties. Talk about wrong end of the stick!

4088 ▶▶ A Ze, replying to Fiat, #74 of 338 🔗

All these young people might be concerned -rightfully- about the elderly people they live with.

4022 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 6, #75 of 338 🔗

Germany keeps really good vaccine harm data, I was reading about it the other day, in Dr Malcolm Kendrick’s book, Doctoring Data. The problem is Wakefield was such a fruitloop, and he and any one associated with him were not just discredited but utterly character assassinated by the medical establishment, even a decent doctor, with good, scientific intentions wouldn’t touch that area of research with a bargepole. I’m not an anti vaxxer either, but I don’t see what good comes of certain discussions being verboten for fear of being labelled a crackpot.

4073 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to BecJT, 3, #76 of 338 🔗

Very true, Angela.

The thing that upsets me the most about the autism/MMR issue is that the CDC whistleblower (Thompson ?) confessed to hiding data that showed a connection. And that most people have never even heard heard of this.

4115 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, 4, #77 of 338 🔗

Autism is listed as a harm in the German data. And I can believe that, it happens also in the field of ME, and also in thyroid (my nightmare, which is why I read Dr Kendrick!), and this is partly why I’m not clapping the NHS (or medicine), it’s an incredibly powerful closed shop. Another absolute scandal is treatment pathways, they are not based on evidence, but ‘expert opinion’ (and expert opinion can be bought). This idea that doctors are the ‘good guys’ is so naive. Some of then are, some of them aren’t, but the witch hunts and GMC kangaroo courts that go on to discredit people are shocking. But like with ME and thyroid, and vaccines, there’s a militant patient wing of conspiracy theory nutjobs that just suck all credibility out of it all, I can understand why good doctors don’t want to get involved. Doctoring Data, doctor Kendrick’s book is really worth a read, it’s about how much research isn’t worth the paper its written on.

4407 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to BecJT, #78 of 338 🔗

‘Most people can’t be bothered’, yep, that’s the problem. I remember when the MMR vaccine issue was current and, on a number of occasions, Blair was asked if Baby Leo had the triple or individual vaccines. His response was that Baby Leo’s privacy has to be respected, (although, weeks previously, he was paraded in front the cameras….) refused to say one way or the other. I took that to mean, ‘you peasants will do what you’re told. I’m guessing the triple MMR was cheaper or a contract was signed, you had no choice.

Fast forward to the statins scandal, where the editor of the BMJ was forced to retract an article that suggested that statins where not as effective as thought and the side effects greater. Follow the money….

4025 Gracie Knoll, 2, #79 of 338 🔗

Brian Rose from the YouTube channel London Real is about to start a live interview with Dr Judy Mikovitz from the “Plandemic” movie. It may be censored immediately so best watch it while you can.

4031 Annabel Andrew, replying to Annabel Andrew, 17, #81 of 338 🔗

Today it gladdened my heart that on my journey home from work the only cars I passed were driving at about 35 mph- which means….the older generation have had enough and are just going out anyway! Good on them.

4280 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Annabel Andrew, 5, #82 of 338 🔗

As a member of the older generation whose preference would be for 135 mph, be careful of categorising people. 🙂 🙂

4034 Victoria, 1, #83 of 338 🔗

Thanks you set this out very well.

4039 AnotherSceptic, 5, #84 of 338 🔗
4050 ianp, replying to ianp, 27, #85 of 338 🔗

Despite the doom and gloom we all feel here, this is turning. I know it, can see it when out and about today as quite a few people were around, am reading it on comments boards that were only a few days ago full of lockdownforever freaks. Yes, there’s still loads and loads of them, but anger is building.

An even bigger fear than economic recession is the new normal narrative, but for that to thrive, the virus will have to be exactly what the doommongers are saying it is. We know it is not.

Do I believe it’s a world big pharma conspiracy? I hope not, and if it is then not everyone got the memo did they? Even Boris was going for herd immunity shielding literally a couple of days before he changed tack. That doesn’t sound like a joined up mega plan to me. I prefer to see it has worldwide government sheep mentality, the path of least risk in case it was wrong. They all shat the bed.

Oh and my man of the year 2020, nay man of the century in fact : Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus. Calling it for the fucking stupid fear psychosis that it always was. Some fantastic quotes (hard to find all them but they are still up there) that were oh so bloody true, and for standing his ground.

So, and to honour him I’ve just bought my Belarus football shirt (ugly as shit to be fair) that I will be wearing with pride. Bit futile and infantile maybe, but I am not brave enough to be putting my head physically above the parapet just yet.

4068 ▶▶ Beth_Riddle, replying to ianp, 11, #86 of 338 🔗

Agree – it feels like something is shifting. I went on a ve walking tour of central london’t today. For the first time in weeks people were hanging around in traf square (nobody was moved on). I walked down whitehall. People were taking photos of the guards and the entrance to horse guards (I overheard one of the policeman who guard the guard the guards there that there was ‘no point in telling people to move on’)
I even bumped into the small socially distanced crowd in St James Park. Nobody there washould wearing face masks – but the guardian is carrying a photo of a person who is wearing a face mask (eg. Totally unrepresentative of my experience).
Could be a bank holiday blip – but I also sense that people are holding out quite a bit of hope for Monday (they must have missed the memo that there basically aren’t going to be any changes till June. …)

4087 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Beth_Riddle, 16, #87 of 338 🔗

The government seem to keep leaking mixed messages, perhaps to try to get a feel for public opinion, or perhaps just saying to different people what they think they want to hear. But nothing stokes lockdown resentment more than giving people hope and then taking it away again. That and news stories about Prof pantsdown/cockup breaking his own rules.

4106 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to guy153, 16, #88 of 338 🔗

Interesting thing about mixed messages, are they stoking up the rage that is building on purpose? To manipulate people into just breaking house arrest anyway? I can’t quite see the political climbdown angle, and there are still hordes of the fear infected still out there. At least it’s easy to spot those mask wearing fools, I am actually lovin’ walking directly at them and watching them scuttle away like rats.

As far as I am concerned this lockdown is over and done , have been ignoring it anyway barring going to visit friends. I will be doing that on Monday no matter what he says.

4110 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to ianp, 13, #89 of 338 🔗

Yep we had that family chat also, come monday we’re done. I’m also finding online my friends are more receptive to interacting, even if to do a bit of ‘better safe than sorry’ but they will engage. It’s been a wall of silence for weeks. I live set back from a main road, about 300m, it’s still busy now at 10pm, it was silent at this time of night for weeks. I really hope people just start suiting themselves. And my theory is, it’s popular, they are doing what is popular, not what is right, and I won’t forgive them for it.

4395 ▶▶▶▶ Dave, replying to guy153, 1, #90 of 338 🔗

Personally I’m starting to worry that alll the coverage of Ferguson’s affair is distracting from the real scandal, the abysmal quality of the modelling code he used and his track record for over-fearful predictions.

4076 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to ianp, 10, #91 of 338 🔗

For info. Traffic much busier here up north nowadays with many more cars, queuing in the usual spots, and bikers going out for blasts in countryside. Haven’t seen anyone pulled over for weeks – DM reckons police have given up as folk now know their rights. 5% max. wearing face masks – various ages. Lot of picnics and sunbathing in local park today. Different world to London, maybe?

4082 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ianp, 8, #92 of 338 🔗

Is it a Big Pharma conspiracy, or a major cockup by an incompetent government who’ve backed themselves into a bad corner? Not a happy choice whichever is the answer. If it’s the latter, then it’s worrying how many incompetent governments there seem to be in the world …..

4139 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #93 of 338 🔗

Nothing says it can’t be both.

4086 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to ianp, 5, #94 of 338 🔗

“Despite the doom and gloom we all feel here, this is turning.”.

For sure. We had a VE day/Mayday/sunny bank holiday ‘do’ outside today. Around 20 people, dips, scones, tea, … and 1 or 2 ales. Ages from 14 to 91. To be fair, we are in rural Sussex.

“Even Boris was going for herd immunity shielding literally a couple of days before he changed tack.”.

Come on Ian, our political creatures are quite capable of pretending to hold a position, and later yielding to public opinion once it has been shaped to the desired outcome.

“Oh and my man of the year 2020, nay man of the century in fact : Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus.”.

‘Wodka and saunas’ was my favourite. 🙂 But he also said anyone proposing putting a mask on any child would be called to account. Top bloke.

“So, and to honour him I’ve just bought my Belarus football shirt (ugly as shit to be fair) that I will be wearing with pride.”.

I’d like to honour him somehow. But any football shirt other than Sadio, Trent, Bobby, Vincent, or Jordan this year is just not on. 🙂

4095 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to JohnB, 6, #95 of 338 🔗

Lol… Nice reply. The Boris thing would indicate conspiracy which quite honestly none of us want to believe, and given the clusterfuck of panic going on at the time by all governments driven by WHO mouthing off about the need for a ‘global response’ and media fear mongering about Italy I still can’t buy into. All that feels like years ago.

Another quote – “our old will die of a bouquet of chronic conditions” – yep, that’s just what happens normally.

Liverpool fan eh? I should be your deadliest enemy as a Man United supporter then! But quite honestly nothing would make me happier than seeing the season finish in front of full stadiums, and letting you get that 30 year monkey of your back 👍

4158 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ianp, 3, #96 of 338 🔗

I think 140 countries acting in unison is the biggest tell, regarding this being a conspiracy. When trying to get the unlikelihood of this across to people, I ask if they have ever tried to get 14 individuals, in a limited context, with a common goal (a work project, residents’ group, sports club, etc.) to act in unison.
(Thanks for the rich vein of humour and enjoyment your shower have provided this season. 🙂 ).

4396 ▶▶▶▶▶ John, replying to JohnB, 1, #97 of 338 🔗

What’s harder: the chance that 140 countries should go mad and copy each other, falling for politicians logic of “we must do something”+”they have done something”=”lets copy them”, OR, the chance of 140 conspirators, each made up of internal factions anyway, all of them in it for there own ends, not betraying one-another and breaking ranks? I wouldn’t have sufficient confidence to say there is a conspiracy, nor sufficient confidence to say there isn’t.

4617 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to John, #98 of 338 🔗

Exactly. Herd mentality affects gvts because gvts are made up of.. People

4100 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to ianp, 12, #99 of 338 🔗

Quotation of the year:

“IT IS BETTER TO DIE STANDING, THAN LIVE ON YOUR KNEES!”

Alexander Lukashenko

4137 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Gracie Knoll, 3, #100 of 338 🔗

‘Give me freedom or give me death.’

4398 ▶▶▶▶ John, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #101 of 338 🔗

Give me freedom AND give me covid-19, I’ll likely survive it and then I’ll be immune (at least for long enough to get this mess contained).

4160 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gracie Knoll, #102 of 338 🔗

Often attributed to George Washington, but I think the concept was first voiced by Euripides.

4051 Tony Rattray, replying to Tony Rattray, 5, #103 of 338 🔗

“THE SCIENCE”

Yes, after six week of 24 hour children’s tv, the bbc finally do a bit of independent journalism!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

F***king joke

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQrtd-WCjos&feature=youtu.be

4085 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tony Rattray, 4, #104 of 338 🔗

It’s about time!! Surely the Beeb couldn’t get away with papering over the facts for much longer?

4090 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #105 of 338 🔗

Hahaha, I thought I’d typed cracks not facts but this is even better!

4108 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tony Rattray, 5, #106 of 338 🔗

I’ve been involved in another campaign over the last few years that has involved a lot of press, and I’ve learnt a lot about the beeb. It’s an immensely political organisation, the internal machinations for journalists to go out on a limb are incredible, she’ll have had to fight tooth and nail to get that on, either fighting her own editor, or him fighting further up the food chain (and I note the ‘balance’ at the end that was clearly shoehorned in). That experience is why I was immediately sceptical about this, as there is so much pressure within news organisations to stick to the script.

4052 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #107 of 338 🔗

Another article in the DailyMail online tonight stating “more evidence vitamin D can help against coronavirus: Study finds patients with severe deficiency are TWICE as likely to die from COVID-19”. Why are all NHS and other first line staff (especially BAME) not on vitamin D to prevent them from dying unnecessarily during this time? Why are all people in care homes not on vitamin D3 supplementation?
People on prescription Statins should take extra care as you need cholesterol to metabolise vitamin D – get your vitamin D levels tested and then get enough sun during summer months on exposed skin and also supplement to ensure optimised Vitamin D levels. In addition optimised vitamin D levels are crucial when pregnant – hope your health professional told you and monitor that.

4057 ▶▶ Sceptic, replying to Victoria, 4, #108 of 338 🔗

Because someone in charge (not necessarily the government) is absolutely hopeless

4084 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Victoria, -3, #109 of 338 🔗

They should probably start putting vitamin D in milk as most of us even if not BAME are likely deficient during the winter.

4225 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to guy153, 2, #110 of 338 🔗

Not a good idea, as it will be synthetic Vitamin D (D2) and is metabolised very differently in the body. Vitamin D3 supplements are very affordable.

4282 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, #111 of 338 🔗

Possibly not the best time to propose mandatory medication ? 🙂

4105 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Victoria, 1, #112 of 338 🔗

CEBM did a rapid review which seemed to dismiss it, but I take it anyway, and just put my elderly parents on it, can’t do them any harm so worth a go.

4142 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to BecJT, 1, #113 of 338 🔗

Yes that was disappointing.. Malcolm Kendrick had some better information

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/04/28/covid-update-focus-on-vitamin-d/

now up to 775 comments

4226 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to BecJT, 3, #114 of 338 🔗

Optimised vitamin D3 levels are critical for good health; it is a no brainer. Unfortunately some sources will always try and scare people away from basic things that will keep them healthy.

4054 IanE, 3, #115 of 338 🔗

May I just go off-topic a bit here: something to brighten the day. I woke (ooops) up to this today on Radio 3 [no news at 7 nowadays!] – if you like Bach (or even if you don’t), you will surely love this (if the management allows it)!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujLK28Nlmq4&list=RDujLK28Nlmq4&start_radio=1

4056 Oaks79, replying to Oaks79, 13, #116 of 338 🔗

Can’t believe this went under my radar, I’ve been posting news that this isn’t as deadly as most think on my Facebook since March without much joy as most on there are still terrified. Apparently the likes of Prof John Loannidis etc obviously aren’t as clued up as Piers Morgan and Dr Hilary 🙄

So hopefully seeing this is from the BBC it might make some have a read, but doubt it as they’ll all still busy wetting themselves.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52543692?__twitter_impression=true

4091 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Oaks79, 5, #117 of 338 🔗

Wow the voice of reason finally squeezes into the Beeb!

4094 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #118 of 338 🔗

I have been saying for a while, that when the journalists and news anchors of the MSM (who appear to be as ovine as the rest of the public) finally wake up and realise that their fear-porn is:
1) Engineering the loss of their OWN jobs (and what other jobs will these people find after they’re sacked? Piers Morgan may end up cleaning toilets.)
2) Throwing their children’s and grandchildren’s futures under the bus
– THEIR NARRATIVE WILL CHANGE!
Similarly for any MP (there may be a few) who has more than one functioning brain cell and a glimmer of conscience.

4111 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Gracie Knoll, 8, #119 of 338 🔗

“Fear-porn”… Love that.

When they climb out of their fucking cloud cuckoo land, I hope that nobody forgives or forgets all those responsible, and lynches them for it at every available opportunity

4162 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ianp, 1, #120 of 338 🔗

If done properly, surely one opportunity will be enough ? 🙂

4178 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to JohnB, 1, #121 of 338 🔗

Ha! There’s so many that are responsible within MSM and celebrity land, that we’ll easily surpass covid death stats

4102 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Oaks79, 4, #122 of 338 🔗

Yes Nick Triggle has been the only voice of sanity at the beeb until this week’s newsnight, which was also very very good (although two months late, all the questions they should have asked at the start, but better late than never).

4186 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Oaks79, 4, #123 of 338 🔗

The Beeb’s Health Correspondent is the only person I’ve seen from that organisation consistently banging the sanity drum. Any time I see one of his articles I screen capture it in its entirety. I also take screenshots of the graphs and charts he posts. They’ve helped me out in a few Twitter arguments with coronabelievers.

This is also a belter from him:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

4058 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 51, #124 of 338 🔗

Update from rural Nottinghamshire.

This is turning. Well, round here it is apparently.

VE day street party this evening in the village. I didn’t go so as to avoid any uncomfortable conversations with any potential Lockdown zealots.

Wife and daughter have just returned. EVERYONE they spoke to has had enough. Nobody social distancing. One 80 year old said that if she’s told to stay at home any longer then she’s prepared to go to prison!

Keep the faith fellow Lockdown sceptics.

4062 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 12, #125 of 338 🔗

Good to hear. And if it’s initiated by those of a certain generation, all the better.

4067 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 27, #126 of 338 🔗

UPDATE from my trip to the park, which reveals similar heartening things:

I went and sat in my deckchair (about 2pm). Wasn’t there an hour before they started coming. LOADS of people, to basically do the same thing. I like to think I’d opened the floodgates once they saw me sat there on my own, but…. maybe they were all just in the mood to rebel. Anyway, people were keeping at a ‘safe’ distance, but they certainly weren’t ‘exercising’. They were socialising and having a laugh. One guy gave me a beer.

No police. I think we have tangible progress.

4140 ▶▶▶ Jamie, replying to Farinances, 8, #127 of 338 🔗

Nobody (rational) is saying everyone should get ultra-close and cough on one-another, they’re saying that some level of distancing is wise but the lockdown is too damaging to be worth it. Keepng a “safe” distance does no harm, lockdown ruins lives, looks like your locals have all reached this wise conclusion too.

4059 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, 21, #128 of 338 🔗

Toby mentions the disappointing fact that polling shows the majority of Britons don’t want the lockdown to end. Unfortunately this means the government will be lifting lockdown very slowly – for political reasons rather than science (as they often claim they follow).
If we want to get the lockdown over more quickly, and avoid social distancing queues when we are doing our christmas shopping, we are going to have to turn public opinion first. Somehow we need to get our arguments across to the public in a co-ordinated campaign, that even gets aired on the BBC. Toby’s website is great for us like-minded folks but does it cut through to the brainwashed public?
I think we need a strong persuasive character to lead a co-ordinated (and financed) campaign. Anyone fancy being the Nigel Farage of “End Lockdown”?

4071 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Back To Normal, 17, #129 of 338 🔗

Sadly I think losing their jobs will be the only thing that properly wakes them up.
And by then of course it will be too late.

4072 ▶▶ Seamonster, replying to Back To Normal, 7, #130 of 338 🔗

Agreed. But it’s quite hard to persuade the brainwashed sheep.

4074 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Back To Normal, 11, #131 of 338 🔗

I tihnk we need to mobilise Lord Sumption into full on Farage mode. Hopefully he has the gravitas and general awesomeness to avoid some of the er….. pitfalls Nige has fallen into lol

4101 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Farinances, 8, #132 of 338 🔗

Quite, gravitas and status, and someone ‘neutral’, with no axe to grind, who’s just on the side of truth. People would have to trust them.

4104 ▶▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Farinances, 8, #133 of 338 🔗

I like the Lord Sumption idea. Hope he’s reading this.

4146 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #134 of 338 🔗

+1

4099 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Back To Normal, #135 of 338 🔗

Weirdly, I’ve had about three conversations in the last 12 hours where people want to talk. Personally I think Nigel Farage should be fired into outer space, we need a cuddly boffin, like David Attenborough to do it, trusted, national treasure, respected, sensible, politically neutral.

4195 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to BecJT, 5, #136 of 338 🔗

What about this guy? 92, year old Lou Myers who attached a one man lockdown defying tribute at the Cenotaph yesterday. Read his comments. What a hero!

Alone in a crowd, one veteran’s show of defiance
http://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/218/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/218/pub/218/page/6/article/40404

4252 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cbird, 5, #137 of 338 🔗

Seeing this has reduced me to tears. What a man. I share his anger. I read a headline yesterday about Brits being ‘defiant’ in the face of the virus. But what’s so bloody defiant about having a cup of tea in your front garden with a bit of bunting? ‘Defiant’ would be marching down the street with a “B*ll&cks to Lockdown” banner and returning to work. (My song suggestion to Toby “I Predict a Riot” by the Kaiser Chiefs).

4188 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Back To Normal, 2, #138 of 338 🔗

I’d recommend anyone attempting to “wake” up a coronabeliever read this book first:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Combating-Cult-Mind-Control-Best-selling/dp/0967068827/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=steve+hassan&qid=1589006746&sr=8-1

It’s about freeing people from religious cult mind control.

Having been brought up in a religious cult, I know how hard it is to wake people up from a reality based on a lie. Certain tactics need to be used. The seeds of doubt need to be sown in a particular way in order for them to slowly take root.

4080 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 38, #139 of 338 🔗

Another great update Toby and really heartening to read all the anecdotes below about the tide turning. My boyfriend lives some way away and would need to drive to see me (again, no risk to anyone because he’d be in a closed car the whole time) and it’s frustrating because he could probably get away with the drive now and clearly other people are giving the finger to the lockdown and socialising with friends/relatives but he refuses to drive until restrictions are formally lifted…!

It struck me today why I find this lockdown so frustrating on an emotional level – it’s because all these sacrifices we have made during these past 2 months feel utterly, utterly futile because there is no evidence that the lockdown has worked. On the contrary, there’s convincing evidence that it has detrimental effects and will usher in economic ruin. Perhaps we’ll never really know until it’s over, but I would say that the fact the government have changed the justification for the lockdown throughout its duration is the clearest evidence that they know themselves it’s not working, because they feel the need to invent new reasons to double down on it – to step back would amount to an admission they’ve ballsed-up and that it hasn’t helped.

It seems impossible to believe that governments around the world have messed up so badly that they’ve caused an unprecedented economic downturn and untold societal misery, but it really may be an explanation which is that simple. It’s not a grand conspiracy to force vaccines on us, or reset the global financial system – perhaps it really is just irrational panic-driven policy making with calamitous consequences. I can’t think of any time in history when this has happened, but first time for everything, right?

4097 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Poppy, 13, #140 of 338 🔗

Hanlon’s Razor: Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. Plus it’s hugely, hugely popular, that’s catnip for politicians.

4148 ▶▶▶ Ricky, replying to BecJT, 2, #141 of 338 🔗

I wouldn’t have the confidence to never ascribe malice, but there have been huge cockups of many kinds by herd thinking in the past. I can’t say for absolute certain there is no conspiracy here, if there is one I think it would be in (“relatively”) small aspects such as sinister mutually separate plots in specific individual countries to normalise surveillance and social credit systems certainly not a massive conspiracy inventing the whole thing. I don’t believe any conspiracy theories suggesting there is a shady plot for forced vaccination, vaccines generally do good and as most people will happily accept them they make up enough population to provide herd immunity to anyone who doesn’t get vaccinated, very little need for a vaccine to be truly universal so long as perhaps 80% (this figure is ample for diseases with all but the very highest R0 values such as measles has, then the figure is more like 90%) of people get it so no need for anyone to try to force vaccines on the unwilling. The thought of smaller conspiracies going on amid this is highly concerning and very hard to disprove, but cockups and politicians painting themselves in to corners is just as convincing an explanation, mass hysteria is not unheard of in history, just a shame it should have to happen during our lives on such a terrible scale.

4284 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BecJT, 3, #142 of 338 🔗

Do you think Hanlon could have been one of, or paid by, the malicious ?

4616 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, #143 of 338 🔗

Hanlon assumes stupidity. “Follow the money” AKA dark C21 Occam is more appropriate I think. It’s not a conspiracy- it’s greedy people being ruthlessly greedy

4092 OpenCorona, replying to OpenCorona, 6, #144 of 338 🔗

Very happy to read the open letter from Cardinals Zen and Müller, Archbishop Viganò, et al. As a Catholic this truly makes me happy and I feel a glimmer of optimism! Thank you Toby for sharing it.

4133 ▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to OpenCorona, 1, #145 of 338 🔗

Likewise and I was pleased to see Stephen Mosher on the list too.

4339 ▶▶ John Moore, replying to OpenCorona, #146 of 338 🔗

Yes, thanks Toby for posting that letter from the Catholic cardinals and archbishop — much appreciated. There’s still life in the old faith yet!

4193 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Oaks79, 1, #148 of 338 🔗

Agree! Listening to this should be made “compulsory” !!

4112 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 15, #149 of 338 🔗

It’s a pity the Duke of Edinburgh didn’t deliver the VE address to the nation rather than Her Majesty. I’m sure he would have told us to stop being such cowards and to tell this craven, incompetent government to go f@@k themselves.

4182 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Hammer Onats, 5, #150 of 338 🔗

Or even dozy Prince Charlie…. Apparently got it, not died has he..?, never to be seen again as an inconvenient recovered or assymptomatic. There… You CAN get it and survive, you fearful cowards!

4116 Nigel Baldwin, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 31, #151 of 338 🔗

It’s VE day and my mother, who spent her 96th birthday locked down on her own in March, is spitting teeth at the BBC. She lived through the Blitz working the telephones for the GPO and she is furious with Sophie Rayofsunshine swanning around Buck House observing social distancing (ha ha) as she and the corporation celebrate the privations that my mother’s generation had to go through. She’s a Tory but thinks Johnson is about as Churchillian as Noddy. ‘This lot would have surrendered to the Nazis’ she said to me on the phone tonight. Not only would they have surrendered they would have done it observing the two metre rule. (BTW if we don’t know what a metre is – government spokesperson – how would we know what is double what we don’t know?)

4126 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 10, #152 of 338 🔗

Ah bless her!

I was walking down by the river with Vera Lynn and other wartime tunes blasting out from speakers in the town centre and thought much the same.

Our parents’/grandparents’ generation fought a war to prevent the country being overcome by a fascist dictatorship. Obviously they needn’t have bothered. Has anyone drawn a Hitler moustache on Bill Gates yet?

4136 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to chris c, 4, #153 of 338 🔗

Dear old Vera Lynn – still with us at age 103! Bless her!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vera_Lynn

It would be nice to get her thoughts on the lockdown!

4199 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 2, #154 of 338 🔗

I agree, and the parallels with the early period of WW2 are really quite scary, complacency and appeasement. But I’m more worried about where economic depression + inflationary spiral + recriminations + complacency will lead, all you’d need is a group of people to scapegoat, fractious relations with your european neighbours, a charismatic leader who promises certainty and salve for humiliation and ….. oh, wait.

4117 AN other lockdown sceptic, 16, #155 of 338 🔗

In answer to Adam Dixon’s post about us sceptics needing a leader. It’s a very good question.

Perhaps Simon Dolan is our man?

If by chance you’re reading this Simon and fancy the role of movement leader, looks like you have some foot soldiers ready and waiting to support you.

Here’s the link again below to Simon’s crowdfunding page for the legal challenge. If you can and haven’t chipped in so far then please consider doing so. I think it’s our best option currently available to make the Gov sweat.

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/

The Lockdown will end but slowly so the Tories don’t lose face. The biggest risk now is that Lockdowns become the UK’s default answer to future virus outbreaks. This cannot be allowed to happen. What the Tories need is a threat like UKIP posed with Brexit. Make them sweat about losing power and they capitulate/change track. The only way that this will happen is if another new political force takes votes away from them (as UKIP did). The opposition parties will not oppose Lockdowns. The challenge must come from a new force.

What I found particularly interesting from today’s update were the strong words from the anonymous ‘distinguished journalist’. We just need the dam to break a little more and hopefully people like this will step forward in the mainstream press.

4128 leamingtonlockdown, 10, #156 of 338 🔗
4131 Nigel Baldwin, #157 of 338 🔗

Long but very informative and in some places quite shocking. At one point Kennedy says when he was a kid 1 in 10,000 had autism, now it is 1 in 34. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLi6ZrFp6vQ&t=3105s

4145 GLT, 3, #158 of 338 🔗

Having read the pre-print of the East Anglia study, they are not as bullish on the efficacy of school closures as the summary above suggests. They caveat their recommendations quite heavily with regard to schools as there are difficulties separating timing from the other factors and there are studies that oppose the conclusion. They advise further consideration into schools looking at whether there is a difference in age groups and whether a shorter school week would achieve the same objective (I can hear the nation’s children cheering that recommendation!).

4152 Morris_Day, replying to Morris_Day, 7, #159 of 338 🔗

Love that even the Guardian has a feature about ‘excess deaths’, but still thinks locking us up for three weeks is the answer https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/08/more-people-dying-at-home-during-covid-19-pandemic-uk-analysis

4615 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Morris_Day, #160 of 338 🔗

This is the guardian in a nutshell.
If The Mail is arguing against lockdown yet calling people Covidiots, the Guardian is arguing for lockdown despite reporting actual sense.

4157 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 6, #161 of 338 🔗

They can stick their vaccine up their hoop. I for one will certainly not be taking it.
Nor will I be downloading that app to my phone.
I just bought a very basic mobile phone that just makes calls & does text messages, it doesn’t have any apps at all.
Old school style, so if it becomes “mandatory “ it’s bye bye iPhone 11 & hello Nokia 105 (£16 on Amazon) sim free.

4205 ▶▶ fiery, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #162 of 338 🔗

I’ve also ordered a basic phone and will be ditching my smartphone if downloading the tracing app becomes mandatory. I’d urge others to do the same.

4163 AnotherSceptic, replying to AnotherSceptic, 2, #163 of 338 🔗

Slightly off topic here, but there is a computer game called “We Happy Few” & it’s similar to what’s happening now, the people are forced to take “joy pills” & it covers up all the bad things that have happened.

The main character in the game is a newspaper censor, he redacts certain information before the newspapers are put out.

Check it out, this is what the UK is going to be like.
Scarey.

4168 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to AnotherSceptic, 1, #164 of 338 🔗

Would be scary if one read newspapers. 🙂 And as for ‘joy pills’ …

4206 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to AnotherSceptic, 3, #165 of 338 🔗

I’ve noticed in a sub-set of my social circle – from a socially distant vantage point, of course – that the ones who take anti-depressants are the ones showing the greatest level of cognitive dissonance towards the lockdown.

4286 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark H, 1, #166 of 338 🔗

Yep, big pharma medication is usually to be avoided. Sad for those hooked though.

4403 ▶▶▶ Dave, replying to Mark H, #167 of 338 🔗

Recent study, reported in the Guardian, said how those with anxiety conditions are likely pro-lockdown and those with depression typically anti-lockdown. Young men also more likely to see reason.

4164 AnotherSceptic, #168 of 338 🔗

Further to my last comment, here is the games description

“We Happy Few is the tale of a plucky bunch of moderately terrible people trying to escape from a lifetime of cheerful denial in the city of Wellington Wells. In this alternative 1960s England, conformity is key. You’ll have to fight or blend in with the drug-addled inhabitants, most of whom don’t take kindly to people who won’t abide by their not-so-normal rules.”

https://youtu.be/rp0M5Y6JMbQ

4169 nowhereman, 9, #169 of 338 🔗

I’m trying the tactic of asking my (not Tory) MP to ask the Government about my concerns, anyone should feel free to borrow my words:

“As a Constituent in XXXX, I must say that I am very concerned about the future of our local area, and indeed the country as a whole. As such I would ask that you please follow-up with the Government on two issues related to the current COVID-19 situation.

Firstly, can you please ask the Government to explain why they feel that there is a real risk of a second peak of COVID-19 deaths in the UK if restrictions are lifted too soon, given that several countries (Denmark, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, etc) have all relaxed their lockdown provisions long enough ago to confirm that no second peaks are occurring? Indeed, no second peaks have been recorded anywhere in the world.

Secondly, data from the ONS suggests that the lockdown itself is already leading to excess deaths, and severe health and mental well-being problems, in addition to the unprecedented economic consequences outlined by the Bank of England today. All of this has a potential to adversely impact tens of millions of lives in the UK going forward.

As such, can you please ask the Government to confirm that whilst the older and more vulnerable in society should be protected in every way possible, the fact that for the vast majority of under 65s the severity of COVID-19 is minor, means that, on balance, the blanket lockdown will soon lead to a net overall negative outcome for health and well-being?”

4183 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 6, #170 of 338 🔗

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/ten-reasons-to-end-the-lockdown-now

If anyone hasn’t seen the latest article by Dr John Lee

4196 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to wendyk, 8, #171 of 338 🔗

I gather from some of your previous comments that you live in Scotland. Yesterday I sent a comment to the Wee Ginger Dug, an independence blogger, you might have heard of him, pointing out politely why his attitude to lockdown, which boils down to “we’ll come oot when Nicola says so, not when Boris says so,” was wrong. Since I thought he might not appreciate the Spectator, I sent him links to Malcolm Kendrick’s blog and to Journeyman Pictures which includes video interviews with John Ionnadis, Knut Wittkowski and other excellent people. I also provided statistics about deaths from “flu and pneumonia” in normal years. The last time I looked my comment was “awaiting moderation.” It has since been moderated into the bin. If I were living in Scotland my blood would be boiling.

4204 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Jane in France, 5, #172 of 338 🔗

Nothing about the indie movement surprises me. Scotland is virtually a single party, single policy state. Even the death of our golden goose – oil and gas – has done nothing to deter the cult indie mindset.

4212 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Jane in France, #173 of 338 🔗

You’re quite correct Jane, and I share your endless frustration with the ‘awaiting moderation’ gagging orders, which, over the past years, I’ve fallen foul of on several sites.
This is extremely sinister.

4218 ▶▶▶▶ Bob, replying to wendyk, 2, #174 of 338 🔗

I’ve posted a message to Wee Ginger Dug to query moderation of alternative points of view. I wonder if that will make it past moderation…

4231 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Bob, 2, #175 of 338 🔗

Scot goes Pop is also appalling. I was thinking of trying Wings over Scotland, since Stuart Campbell doesn’t subscribe to the Nicola cult and might be the most honest of the bunch.

4187 leamingtonlockdown, 9, #176 of 338 🔗

While we’re all grounded by a bunch of repressed, unpopular boarding school alumni intent on revenge and control…I’d like to share some Knut. This man has a calm, rational tolerance that is utterly compelling. His responses to every question about the lockdown, the pandemic and epidemiology will help us all with those arguments and letters to our MPs, the press and our institutions intent on following the government’s reckless messaging:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Q4naYOYDw

Be warned…at some point in there he blames us. For not being active citizens. For not participating in democracy. For not employing a government of the people. Now, that is something we should change. Although, I expect we’ll all go back to our lattés, hire purchases and minibreaks and leave it up to others until the next time…

4189 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 19, #177 of 338 🔗

I’ve often wondered how countries like North Korea “happen”.

After reading the comments on a post from Glasgow Live, asking whether readers would be installing the NHSx tracking app, I’ve got a better understanding of North Korea.

I live in Scotland and I’ve seen the cult of personality at play in Holyrood since devolution happened. Factor in the presence of the ever-popular Sturgeon, coupled with the fear of an invisible enemy, and we have a situation ripe for a North Korea-style dictatorship.

It seems the Scottish public believe that only Dear Leader, the First Minister, can save them from certain death from our invisible enemy. Contradictory statements are ignored and dismissed as people hang on her daily pronouncements.

Nagging, subconscious doubts are quelled by her calming cadence and reassuring manner.

Careers, livelihoods, relationships and the needs of children are offered up as sacrifices at the feet of her “Stay at Home” podium, all in the hope that one day, hopefully soon, Dear Leader can walk us into the freedom of The New Normal, stepping over the corpse of the Invisible Enemy, an enemy that, Dear Leader warns us, could be resurrected but only if we carefully obey her calmly intoned edicts.

4198 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Mark H, 4, #178 of 338 🔗

Couldn’t agree more Mark. The signals that Scotland will go even slower than the rest of the UK in easing lockdown are terrifying… and all delivered in a ‘rest assured’ tone that many take comfort from and no one is questioning.

4202 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 12, #179 of 338 🔗

She said that she’ll consider letting us have more than one hour a day exercise. But we were never, ever limited to just one hour a day exercise.

She continually talks about *her* needing to be convinced that we are not at risk. About how *she* needs to see the evidence but *she’ll* make decisions based on *her* judgement. How the evidence *might* suggest Scotland’s R0 is still too high. How she’s aiming to carry out 12,000 tests a day by mid-May, which will mean it will be 77 weeks before the whole of Scotland is tested.

She claimed on Thursday that the Scottish lockdown can’t even be eased up because *26,000* Scots have tested positive, while her own Government’s website has the number of positive tests at *12,700*.

And I learned yesterday, by reading over Scotland’s lockdown laws, that they’re in place for at least 6 months, while the UK’s laws need to be reviewed every 3 weeks.

She announces more money to support the businesses that she’s made it a crime for them to operate but doesn’t mention that money is coming straight from Westminster.

4233 ▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Mark H, 4, #180 of 338 🔗

Remind me of where Nicola Sturgeon did her degree in science.

4238 ▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Mark H, 8, #181 of 338 🔗

The cult of the NHS is probably particularly strong in Scotland where prescriptions for medicines are completely free. At some stage, and not just in Scotland, health has become synonymous with medical care. Since you wouldn’t need medical care if you were well, this means that health has actually become synonymous with illness. It is as though the normal state of a human being is to be fat, depressed and unwell, and these conditions need to be treated. The dietary advice put out by the NHS doesn’t help either.

4253 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Jane in France, 3, #182 of 338 🔗

Free prescriptions for the likes of paracetamol available on tap; which is very silly,and costly.

If the Nats ever do achieve independence, free prescriptions for all, regardless of income,will have to go.

4200 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Mark H, 9, #183 of 338 🔗

I’m not Scottish, but whenever I see Sturgeon on TV I find her as reassuring as an itchy rash.

4213 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark H, 9, #184 of 338 🔗

You’ve nailed it Mark! The High Priestess has spoken ;her every word slavishly followed, while subtle hints are employed to lay the blame fairly at Westminster’s door.

I can’t bear to watch her, nor the personality cult which she’s steadily building.

My little town on the west coast will not do well in the aftermath of Sturgeonomics, if the present is any thing to go by.

Meanwhile, the dosh is winging its way here from wicked Westminster. This is awful.

I’ve always loathed the pious posturings, but now they’re riding the crest.

4347 ▶▶ MarkM, replying to Mark H, 3, #185 of 338 🔗

She has been trying to ruin Scotland for years, and having partly succeeded, sees this as her big chance to complete the job ahead of schedule.

4192 Csaba, 5, #186 of 338 🔗

This type of lockdown is a technic that people used in mid 17th century as per its origin. Roughly 350 years later we do use the same technique. That’s an enormous shame on all the scientists and politicians today. We as rest of the society should expect a much more sophisticated response from the relevant people. After spending so much money on science and policies. They let us down.

4197 BrianJR, replying to BrianJR, 17, #187 of 338 🔗

Yesterday I posted my honest feelings about this situation and our likelihood to influence change. I felt pretty grim yesterday morning when posting, and was miserable most of the day. However, having read the responses and new posts, and watching Darkest Hour last night, I have re-framed my feelings and am back in the game !

As literary quotes and themes are popular here, I offer a couple from the film that reasonated with me, and helped my reframing:
Winston Churchill: Those who never change their mind never change anything.
Clemmie: You are strong because you are imperfect. You are wise because you have doubts

What also hit me like a sledgehammer in this film was how far from actually emulating his hero Boris Johnson is. I am sure that he will be prepping his Sunday speech believing this will be his “moment”, but he has drunk too much of his own kool-aid, and should perhaps get stuck into the Pol Roger instead.

I cannot profess to know the actual historic situation, but my inferred opinion from the film was that Churchill initially contained himself to the war cabinet, and excluded the outer cabinet, parliament and the population from his thinking. Only when the King gives him support and advice does Churchill finally speak to the people to gauge their feelings, and then to the wider parliament – and that was the turning point.

So Mr Johnson, if you really see yourself as the new Churchill why the fuck don’t you come out and listen to others, embrace different viewpoints, and take actions that support the majority and their future prosperity. Show us the science, not heavily redacted documents, and stop the messaging that is paralysing the masses.

I agree with those here who say we must keep our resolve, and seek to drive change. But I also think we need to be measured in the language and methods we use to get our arguments across – or risk being dropped into the “raving lunatics” bin. We need to think Kier Starmer (who btw I do not (yet) support politically) style at PMQs (watch the clips online), rather than using emotional language, and widely reported, data-supported argument rather than personal opinion. Undoubtedly our personal opinions are immensely important, but in situations like this they are not argument winners as others clearly value their own opinions too. We need to influence and persuade, not to lambast and decry. Gracie Knoll (is that a real name or a JFK alias in a Sue Denim stylee ?) said we only need 3.5% of thinkers aligned to drive change – so we need to consider what influences our own thinking and how we can channel that to align those thinkers. For me at least, yelling at me that I am wrong doesn’t work.

I completely and totally support R Dawg’s ideas of writing to Raab, Hancock et al, and the others who are trying to rattle the cages of the politicians. But we need to get street-smart in how we do this if we are to generate support from people who are likely beginning to waver in their own thoughts. Winning them over is critical, but many of them will not want to align around sensationalist or highly radical views – Boris will likely talk about “baby steps” or similar tomorrow, and we need the same approach to incrementally, calmly, and with supporting evidence, begin to win people over.

It is a fight worth fighting, but we need to think how we can get those with maximum influence to question the governement’s approach – and think in incremental steps rather than unrealistic end-goals. No matter how much we want it, the lockdown will not be lifted immediately because we think so – but we can find the cracks and widen them until the dam wall collapses.

As Mr Churchill said “Nations which go down fighting rise again, and those that surrender tamely are finished.”

4207 ▶▶ Beth_Riddle, replying to BrianJR, 2, #188 of 338 🔗

I agree wholeheartedly. Need some suggestions now.

In the meantime, heres a crowdfunder for a legal challenge to commence a judicial review into the lockdown:

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/lockdownlegalchallenge/

4210 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to BrianJR, 8, #189 of 338 🔗

Ah Brian, you’ve “outed”me! It was a choice between Gracie Knoll or Bill Dingsevven! My real name is much more boring!

Although I still hold the possibility that a gigantic Pharma power-grab may be behind this lot (based on many years of studying the truly horrific catalogue of criminal activity the industry has been, and still is, involved in – Professor Peter Gotzsche calls the industry ‘Organised Crime’); I wholeheartedly agree that ANY talk of such possible agendas should be TOTALLY AVOIDED in contacts with MPs, journalists or other influencers.

For one thing, such conspiracy theories may be wrong! I really WANT them to be wrong!! Nobody will be more delighted than me if the “Plandemic” movie, for example, turns out to be baseless, and the whole crisis is simply a cock-up on a global scale!

So yes, we MUST stick to what we have evidence for, and to what we can infer using common sense.

We KNOW the virus is vastly less deadly than first feared.

We KNOW who the three vulnerable groups are (the elderly with comorbidities, the immunocompromised of any age, and the unhealthy – obese, vitamin D deficient, metabolic syndrome etc. – of any age.)

We can INFER the damage both to lives and to the economy from continued lockdown. (just ONE example; Prof. Karol Sikora’s estimate of 50,000 needless cancer deaths over the coming months).

We can remind the MSM that THEIR jobs will be lost; THEIR kids’ and grandkids’ futures will be wrecked. Similarly for our MPs. (I actually think that this is the best point of leverage at the moment; especially with the media personnel).

So yes – incremental steps, sticking entirely to realities and logical extrapolations of existing data. Let’s keep on keeping on – “we shall NEVER surrender!”

4216 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Gracie Knoll, 4, #190 of 338 🔗

A good list. The only thing I would add is we also DON’T KNOW how effective lockdowns are vs much less harmful common-sense recommendations: go to bed if you’re ill, wash your hands and be careful around the elderly or vulnerable.

4228 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to BrianJR, 3, #191 of 338 🔗

Agree! Sadly Boris Johnson blew it.

4234 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to BrianJR, 2, #192 of 338 🔗

Brian – great to have you back!
I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts and we do need a consistent, fact based approach to our arguments and we need to influence. So, why don’t we start with those of us who can, writing to Raab, Hancock etc with those arguments (we can agree them here) and thereafter, everyday, send each of them an update of latest research/findings from across the world? Sure they will love a bulging inbox, but if the same info is arriving, surely at some point it will be read?! I can’t believe they are not already looking at other sources (please tell me they are!) but we have to try.
Would be fab if somehow a co-ordinated ‘we the undersigned’ letter could be compiled, bringing all the fine scientists together….how can they be done?

4235 ▶▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #193 of 338 🔗

‘that be done’ 😂

4267 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BrianJR, 20, #194 of 338 🔗

The great irony is that Johnson had the opportunity for a genuine Churchillian moment back in late March, if he had chosen to resist the panic-mongers and stood against them, using his prime ministerial platform to tell people that he would not be cowering in fear of a disease, that all the evidence was that most people would not suffer more than a cold from it, that the approach must be to keep calm and carry on, keeping the economy going to support everything, and to prioritise protecting the vulnerable and supporting any emergency healthcare requirements. And he should have said that he trusted the British people to do what’s right,and did not believe and would never impose the dictatorial methods of the Chinese communists on the British people.

It could have been genuinely glorious, and genuinely courageous, in political terms.

He flubbed it, and will go down in history as the opposite of great, imo.

4307 ▶▶▶ GLT, replying to Mark, 3, #195 of 338 🔗

I agree that would have been the better approach but given how the Swedish authorities have struggled to hold their position can you imagine the panic and chaos that would have ensued when he was admitted to ICU? I doubt Raab or Hancock would have had the nerve to hold the line.

4308 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 3, #196 of 338 🔗

He will go down in history as the prime minister who gave £350m a week to Our NHS and saved 500,000 lives. According to his version of it anyway.

4295 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to BrianJR, 3, #197 of 338 🔗

“For me at least, yelling at me that I am wrong doesn’t work.”.

Absolutely. I tell my wife this regularly, with mixed results. 🙂

“I completely and totally support R Dawg’s ideas of writing to Raab, Hancock et al, and the others who are trying to rattle the cages of the politicians.”.

Sadly, their practice of only replying to their own constituents is becoming a wide-spread defence mechanism.

“But we need to get street-smart in how we do this …”.

Agreed again. But the chap at the cenotaph yesterday’s remarks, with plenty of swearing, will have a struck a chord with very many people. Obviously letters to politicians should be less extreme, but attempt to get the same emotion/meaning across. 🙂

Different strokes for different folks/media/platforms, I guess.

“No matter how much we want it, the lockdown will not be lifted immediately because we think so …”.

Here I must disagree. People will go to see their families, to parks, the beach, the countryside – and it will have evaporated.

4614 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, #198 of 338 🔗

Exactly. Living by example is the way to go. Thay way you shout very clearly that you are unafraid- without being a dick about it. So….yeah. Don’t invite your whole family round and have a raucous drinking session in your front garden because then you’ll just be a covidiot. DO invite your whole family round and behave totally normally, unrepentant yet friendly. Most people’s fear abates when they see other people aren’t afraid – even if they’re consciously *trying to be scared!

4201 swedenborg, 6, #199 of 338 🔗

I have in an earlier posting discussed that Sweden might have had cases among the military attending the Military World Games in Wuhan in Oct 2019.
https://www.thelocal.se/20200505/the-coronavirus-may-have-arrived-in-sweden-in-november
https://nsd.se/nyheter/lulea/regementslakaren-atta-norrbottningar-har-provtagits-nm5340524.aspx
https://nsd.se/nyheter/lulea/anders-nystedt-nara-men-ingen-cigarr-nm5341281.aspx
Because only one of six military athletes presenting with symptoms in November had antibodies against Covid-19 in Aril 2020, a firm conclusion could not be drawn of a Wuhan connection as you could not exclude that the athlete had been infected later in the Swedish outbreak. Still there has been rumours in other countries. Now this
https://www.tagesschau.de/sport/sportschau/militaerweltspiele-wuhan-101.html
The Italian OS gold fencing medallist had typical symptoms already in Wuhan. After the games coming back to Italy his son and partner developed similar symptoms. Although the German team did not report any illness some other countries have. The military games had 10000 athletes from 110 countries in Wuhan October 2019. This might have been the first super spreader event in the world.
We have now firm proof of cases occurring both in Italy and France in the end of December.

The logic is quite clear. An enormous spread of infection locally in Wuhan in Oct-Dec mostly asymptomatic but accumulating symptomatic cases. Then with new test in January we find the Covid-19 for something we earlier probably thought was flu .The new infection in January was already rampaging around the world invisible at first. The spread to Europe was earlier in December/January and then the same timeline as in Wuhan with enormous asymptomatic infection at first and then the accumulating cases including deaths stamped first as flu. The tip of the iceberg of infections detected three month later when we have the tests. This is the invisible pandemic so eloquently described in Prof Giesecke’s letter to Lancet.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31035-7/fulltext
The government is bound to know that the peak of infection was already well before the lockdown was introduced and that we have had already millions of infections. Delaying an immediate opening up of the country (we can only possibly mitigate the spread to care homes) is only done as a political charade more concerned about polling figures that the health of the country. It is futile to extinguish the infection and they know that the pandemic will end in the summer with a possibility of return next winter.

4209 Bob, 7, #200 of 338 🔗

Interesting transparency in reporting from Norfolk hospitals:

http://www.nnuh.nhs.uk/news/2020/05/daily-announcement-covid-19-deaths/

The ages and prevalence of UHC put things in perspective.

4215 drrobin, 8, #201 of 338 🔗

On topics for today, would welcome inclusion of Unions’ attempts to further debase society.

BBC reports…
Unions, including the National Association of Headteachers (NAHT) and the National Education Union (NEU), have called for “clear, scientific published evidence” that schools are safe to re-open.
Ironically, this because of key principle that “safety and welfare of staff and pupils is paramount.”

Matt Ridley and other eminent folk comment how much we Don’t know about the virus. Safe as a return blatantly is (as other countries demonstrate), a guarantee of safety from science is obviously a silly request.
Indeed, we haven’t clear scientific published evidence that it was ‘safe’ to CLOSE schools, nor even sensible. Reports thus far indicate it has been spectacularly disasterous for some children and parents. The disadvantaged are mentioned, anyhow. The detriment to the gifted might be considered by the govt too, if not altruistically then as a resource who’s future achievement might be milkable for paying off debt so everyone could be paid by the state.

Back off to read your massively commented code review thread and see which GitHub issues have been silenced overnight. Keep up the good work Toby.

4221 Bob, replying to Bob, 3, #202 of 338 🔗

A semi-relevant thought which occurred to me this morning… one often hears complaints about politicians ending up in jobs they aren’t qualified to do (e.g. a doctor should be the health minister, an economist the chancellor etc.) and instead the government/civil service is stuffed full of people who did PPE at Oxford.

The current situation does leave me wondering whether that would truly make things any better, or just reduce the pool of people available to take on these jobs; we currently have a government which desperately needs to build a logical train of thought, as well as apply a more sophisticated understanding of ethics than the primitive “deaths, bad” which seems to have taken over the country. A key part of the first P in PPE (philosophy) really ought to be logic and ethics, so we find ourselves in a situation where on paper several of these Oxford PPE graduates are eminently qualified for the task at hand, yet they still are incapable of doing it!

4236 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bob, 1, #203 of 338 🔗

If I’ve understood correctly, this is what Dominic Cummings is trying to tackle, hence the endless slurs and his new found status as a sinister Svengali figure.

4251 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to wendyk, 2, #204 of 338 🔗

Cummings is smart but what worries me about him is that one can’t be sure how radical he is. He may be gameplanning all kinds of scenarios in which crashing the economy is somehow a good idea.

4258 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to guy153, 4, #205 of 338 🔗

Yes I’ll have to agree, although I’d give his idea to introduce a new batch of thinkers a qualified welcome.

If he did support the lockdown then he has as much to answer for as the rest .

4247 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Bob, 5, #206 of 338 🔗

They know what’s going on and they aren’t stupid. But they’re applying all that brainpower to PR, psychology, spin, and trying to manage people’s emotions.

4222 Francisco Almeida, replying to Francisco Almeida, -18, #207 of 338 🔗

During a ww2 bombing in London , everyone rushed to basements , and NOBODY went outdoors saying … “oh , there’s very little chance a shrapnel would hit me , so I go for a pleasant walk in search for the scent of garden flowers “.

4244 ▶▶ Markus, replying to Francisco Almeida, 6, #208 of 338 🔗

Are you really comparing this virus to world war II bombings? wow.

4255 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Francisco Almeida, 5, #209 of 338 🔗

What’s your point?

4301 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to Francisco Almeida, 6, #210 of 338 🔗

100% of ww2 bombs contained explosives. 99.7% or thereabouts (i.e. 100% -IFR) of 2020 ‘bombs’ do not.

4317 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Francisco Almeida, 7, #211 of 338 🔗

In fact, not everyone rushed to a bomb shelter when an air-raid happened. My grandparents lived in Bristol which was quite badly bombed in WWII. They lived near a main railway line and the house opposite theirs was destroyed by a bomb. However, I’m told that my grandmother despaired about my two aunts that lived at home, because they wouldn’t go to the shelter but preferred to stay in bed. One died 3 years ago age 92 and the other one was 95 in February.

4364 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Edna, 1, #212 of 338 🔗

“Mr Herbert Morrison, Home Secretary and Minister of Home Security, commenting in the House on 11th February 1941 on the introduction of the new type of indoor shelter, said that even in London at the height of the “Blitz”, 85% of the population were sleeping at home or in small shelters at or near home. The new shelter would mean that its possessors could sleep in their own homes with a considerable degree of added safety. The indoor steel air raid shelters, named after the Home Secretary and Minister of Home Security, Herbert Morrison, became available to householders in 1941, and it meant that people could now sleep in their own homes with a considerable degree of added safety. Over one million were in use by 1945.”
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30082790

My grandmother (in London) used to like telling us about how she used to push my mother’s cot under the kitchen table when the air raid sirens went off. With hindsight I wonder if she was talking about a Morrison shelter, but neither are around to ask now.

4343 ▶▶ MarkM, replying to Francisco Almeida, 3, #213 of 338 🔗

Congratulations, I think you’ve won the prize for the daftest comment ever posted in this forum.

4223 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 41, #214 of 338 🔗

A heartfelt plea from a disillusioned onlooker: would someone influential please let our so-called leaders know that public emoting does not cut it for the more rational and well informed members of the electorate: Nicola weeping about covid deaths, Boris holding a candle and bowing his head.

We need leadership, not blubbering and sensitivity signalling.

Do others agree ?

4232 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 10, #215 of 338 🔗

Absolutely. As you say, I want clear-headed leadership at a time like this not fuzzy-wuzzy virtue-signalling.

4263 ▶▶ Mark, replying to wendyk, 9, #216 of 338 🔗

Yes, it’s contemptible. They’re a bunch of lying hypocrites, given that they wouldn’t dream of crying about these levels of deaths normally.

It’s emotional manipulation and it’s promoting the crisis mentality for which we will be paying a heavy price for years and probably decades to come.

4268 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to wendyk, 4, #217 of 338 🔗

I’m staggered that they think we fall for it

4276 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 6, #218 of 338 🔗

I fear that they’re relying on the Lowest Common Denominator assumption : we’re so thick and dumb that emotional incontinence will suffice to keep us in check.

4323 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 16, #219 of 338 🔗

This time reminds me of 1997 after the death of Princess Diana. Then, if you didn’t subscribe to the cult of emotion you were labelled as being devoid of feeling. This current bout of virtue-signalling sickens me also because it is vacuous and done for appearance’s sake only.

4334 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 7, #220 of 338 🔗

Absolutely! This happened to me,who became ‘hard hearted Hannah’. I couldn’t believe my eyes when the teddy mountain materialised outside Kensington Palace.
And then Blair with his ‘the people’s princess’.

4341 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 7, #221 of 338 🔗

I know. The only people it affected were her sons, her family and her friends. I recently saw some footage of those who were ‘traumatised’ by her death, literally pawing those two poor boys and I felt sick (the mob bullying the poor Queen into acquiescing was also nauseating). I felt like I didn’t belong in my own country then and that’s how I feel now.

4322 ▶▶ IanE, replying to wendyk, 16, #222 of 338 🔗

Where, I keep wondering, are all the tears for the excess 60,000 cancer deaths (as well as countless other ignored illnesses) that will now result from the lockdown? And what about the inevitable surge of suicides (which doubled following the much less severe downturn in 2008/2009) following the dreadful damage to businesses, jobs, livelihoods, mental health, etc resultant on the massive destruction of much of the UK economy? Where, even, is the sympathy for people in severe pain due to prolonged dental problems? I am one of the lucky ones who has avoided most of the personal downsides of this disgraceful theft of our ‘inalienable’ rights, but I despair for the younger folk who will pay the bulk of the price for Boris’s inept leadership – he could have been Churchill, but instead he has become Greta Chamberlain.

4337 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to wendyk, 7, #223 of 338 🔗

Agree. Also do not want o be thanked for sacrifices made or that we are all in it together. NOT!

4224 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #224 of 338 🔗

Italian parliament. Rage against the government.Lies about deaths. Subtitles. Happens in Westminster?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=250&v=bUCWcft6kao&feature=emb_logo

4229 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to swedenborg, 3, #225 of 338 🔗

Wow..that’s a powerful watch. If only…..

4254 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 2, #226 of 338 🔗

Great stuff thanks. Can’t think of an English MP who could or would dare to do this.

4265 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to swedenborg, 6, #227 of 338 🔗

Did you see the comments below the video though: broadly speaking no-one wants to stand up to be counted even though they know they are being lied to. Puts me in mind of the film of ‘One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest.’ When that came out in the 1970s I used to have furious (friendly) rows with my friends who wouldn’t accept the metaphor that we willingly live in a fascist/authoritarian state (remember most of the inmates are incarcerated voluntarily) and those who rebel get lobotomized, even though the willing inmates went along with you….up to a point. My friends used to say that wasn’t what it was like in the real world. Too far fetched. Wish I could speak to them now.

4319 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 3, #228 of 338 🔗

And, you know what, anyone tries to give me a lobotomy, I’m going to give them a piece of my mind! [Sadly that would probably be the literal result, given our current fascist state!]

4328 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #229 of 338 🔗

Sadly, an excellent anaology.

4230 Old fred, replying to Old fred, 16, #230 of 338 🔗

Good article by Matthew Parris in today’s Times ‘Johnson needs to take control of the cockpit’.

‘Is there anyone in the cockpit?

‘Bojo’s lack of leadership has resulted in confusion in Downing Street and hostilities and factionalism between ministers, and with No 10’,

‘this is not the apocalypse’

My real worry is that Boris, as ‘captain’ of the plane, has decided the safest place to land is a runway four hours away without realising we have only two hours worth of fuel in the tanks.

4246 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Old fred, 2, #231 of 338 🔗

I’m not usually a big fan of Parris, but totally agree, he hit the nail on the head today

4272 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Old fred, 4, #232 of 338 🔗

So glad that Mr Johnson wasn’t around during WW2, we’d have been told to hide in our houses!

4237 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 3, #233 of 338 🔗

Bail-out billions anaesthetise us from reality

https://mol.im/a/8302055

4335 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #234 of 338 🔗

… and many people look blank when you talk about the economy taking a hit

4239 Pebbles, replying to Pebbles, 23, #235 of 338 🔗

As I have been posting about the timeline previously, and why it is so utterly important to go back to the beginning of the winter season of 2019/20 for all mortality rates and health charts / graphs, it is now slowly coming into the mainstream…:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/08/covid-19-pandemic-may-have-started-october-says-uk-french-study/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

It will take weeks and months for all this to sink into the British heads currently still deep down in the bucket of cognitive dissonance: the (whatever) virus was here and elsewhere for most of the winter.

But once it does sink in.. will the nation take a moment to ponder what that really means apart from many many people having been infected over the course of months…:

Lockdown (utterly nonsensical, in fact a murderous exercise causing more harm than good, plunging the country into economic recession of epic scale)?
The Coronavirus Act overwriting existing laws that are meant to safeguard our liberty and freedom of speech, and the nation did nothing but roll over on their backs playing dead bug?
The state of our minds – falling for FEAR (false evidence appearing real) – and just how easily we can be manipulated and led down whatever path they want us to go down?
The deliberate tempering with data (dying with or off Covid-19) on death certificates, misleading the public, bolstering the alleged need for lockdown and pushing through alternative agendas in the background (contact tracing = data mining) as well as making it a saving face exercise for the government?
British media – just how independent and trustworthy is our media really? Shoving endless fear porn down our throats for weeks on end? And now we are supposed to hail the BBC because they have managed to release the first slightly critical video (see Toby’s link above)? That’s what we pay license fees for? I mean..seriously?

And on and on it goes. Mostly I am dismayed to see that apparently the entire NHS must be under a full gag order at this point. How else is it possible that German, American, Swiss, Austrian and other doctors have taken to YouTube in droves, giving interviews with alt media outlets to expose the lack of science in a touted ‘scientific approach’ to the pandemic, putting things into perspective and reporting from what’s actually happening in their districts. Where are the British medical association, doctors, nurses, coroners, who are ALL a part of this, you know the ones we are clapping for Thursday night at 8:00pm? Oh ya… here they are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZY7EOMZ754

4245 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Pebbles, 9, #236 of 338 🔗

Absolutely spot on.100 % agree. This is an astronomical deception.

4262 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Pebbles, 6, #237 of 338 🔗

Unfortunately our medics are largely at the mercy of a monopolistic employer. I have huge admiration for those like Dr Sikora who speak out.

4279 ▶▶ Michael C, replying to Pebbles, 1, #238 of 338 🔗

It might be sacrilegious to suggest this, but might the silence of our frontline NHS staff be down to them not understanding what it is they’re fighting. This is not to impugn the clear courage of those nursing Covid 19 patients but we do have a bit of a record in this country for following asinine instructions/policy without question – the charge of the Light Brigade for starters!

4306 ▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Michael C, #239 of 338 🔗

You could be quite possibly right…

4315 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Pebbles, 3, #240 of 338 🔗

“the ones we are clapping for ” – speak for yourself!

4612 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Pebbles, #241 of 338 🔗

Bound and gagged. It’s almost impossible as a journalist to get NHS staff to speak to you, even off the record. They get told not to and threatened if they do.

Unless of course you’re the BBC (or Ross Kemp?!) with a camera and a promise to let them air all their Labour activist grievances…..

4240 Oaks79, replying to Oaks79, 10, #242 of 338 🔗

Would the people of Scotland defy wee Sturgeon if Boris lifted the lockdown tomorrow ?

4248 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Oaks79, 4, #243 of 338 🔗

Among my peer group, yes.

4249 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Oaks79, 5, #244 of 338 🔗

This is what I’ve been wondering; definitely more activity in my small town. The nice lady on the till at the local supermarket said that she’d seen far more cars on the road, and people walking and cycling.

One friend, who is a nominal, but not entirely convinced, independence supporter, told me that she’s fed up and had enough.

If Boris were to take this step, it would put Wee Burnie on the back foot. However, no accounting for her acolytes’ reaction.

4261 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to wendyk, 1, #245 of 338 🔗

Human-bagpipes Blackford might blow a gasket

4274 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #246 of 338 🔗

That would make my day! Many MPs become semi comatose when he gets up in the HOC to produce another bore-for-Scotland marathon.

4250 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Oaks79, 5, #247 of 338 🔗

Also, how she can’t see that she’s getting played by Westminster is testament to the power of the cult of personality. She’s so deep into her perceived public approval that she doesn’t realise that she’s going to be made to look like a right twat over how she’s handled this. The media will immediately spin her “no ease to the lockdown” message on Friday into one of exerting a Napoleanic control over this tiny nation.

4269 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Mark H, 4, #248 of 338 🔗

Note that when Nickla speaks at her daily press conference it is always “I” and not “we” eg “I need to be entirely satisfied that it is safe”, “I need to be convinced that relaxing the lockdown is in the best interest of the Scoattish peepil” etc. It’s as if she is the benevolent dictator of this wee country. I want tp vomit.

4275 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Gillian, 5, #249 of 338 🔗

She tried, unsuccessfully, to assume the role of kingmaker during the run up to the last election, making demands as to what ‘she’ would find acceptable.

She’s veering towards ‘l’etat, c’est moi’.

4313 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark H, 2, #250 of 338 🔗

Which is, of course, just what Mr Bumble is doing from No 10! ‘I feel a right tit!?’ : that is because you are one de Pfeiffel!

4273 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Oaks79, 7, #251 of 338 🔗

Some frustrated Scots might be interest in looking at official Scottish statistics.
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/general-publications/weekly-and-monthly-data-on-births-and-deaths/deaths-involving-coronavirus-covid-19-in-scotland
“As at 3rd May, there have been a total of 2,795 deaths registered in Scotland where the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) was MENTIONED on the death certificate.
The proportion of COVID-19 deaths which took place in care homes has risen each week and represented 59% of all COVID-19 deaths in week 18.
Three quarters (75%) of all deaths involving COVID-19 to date were of people aged 75 or over.
The NRS figures published here include all deaths where COVID-19 (INCLUDED SUSPECTED CASES) was mentioned on the death certificate.”
Note the weasel words “mentioned” and “suspected.” Note the age of the majority of the deceased and the fact that the majority of deaths took place in care homes. On other pages there is information about co-morbidities, social deprivation and deaths from flu in previous seasons. As the First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon probably considers anything as banal as official statistics beneath her notice. And she manages to spin the lockdown extension as care and compassion for the people of Scotland!

4305 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Oaks79, 3, #252 of 338 🔗

They’re already defying her. Don’t be fooled by the half-wits who post on FB pages such as the Daily Record.

4340 ▶▶ MarkM, replying to Oaks79, 1, #253 of 338 🔗

I would, yes.

4356 ▶▶ Bob, replying to Oaks79, 2, #254 of 338 🔗

I would!

4241 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 15, #255 of 338 🔗

Morning all, I’ve just sent an email to my local hospitals Patient Advice and Liasion team, as instructed by a member of that team.

I have ongoing health investigations that have been cancelled with no time scale in sight.

I explained my issues and experiences and with to discuss a way forward. If not, I would be seeking legal advice.

I urge everybody to do the same, the conversation I have last week, regarding the latest cancellation, with a senior member of the PALs team, she hinted that she wasn’t happy with the situation either, obviously she wouldn’t want to be explicit about her feelings…….

An excerpt of the email follows for some context-
“My previous experience as senior paediatric nurse, coping with, and managing, annual viral bronchiolitis epidemics with very sick ventilated infants gives me insight and empathy for the situation that the staff have to contend with.

That said, the population at large also needs their heath care needs met, and at the moment, there is no end in sight, my mental health is suffering and my worries are mounting.”

This situation needs to end.

4312 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #256 of 338 🔗

Yes – this situation is a total disgrace! We feel your pain? Oh yeah???

4259 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 8, #257 of 338 🔗

Great article from Toby in today’s Telegraph

‘We have become a nation of scaredy-cats’

Hopefully Boris will be taking notes for tomorrow evening, but I fear he is himself chief scaredy-cat

He styles himself Top Cat, sadly, in practice he’s closer to Chooch

4289 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #258 of 338 🔗

Tom and Jerry come to mind

4260 GLT, replying to GLT, 11, #259 of 338 🔗

A small note of optimism this morning is that The Telegraph is finally beginning to ridicule the government’s handling of this episode and the main published letter is a Professor from Edinburgh (I hope he has found this website) ridiculing the government’s claim to be following ‘the science’. Ridicule in the media is a powerful tool and and until this point has been completely lacking. We can but hope…

However, as and when this lockdown is ended, it will be important to continue to apply pressure in whatever ways we can to ensure that this arbitrary suspension of human rights cannot be repeated.

Like him or loathe him, Boris Johnson has largely libertarian instincts. Imagine this as a precedent for a leader without those natural restraints.

4310 ▶▶ IanE, replying to GLT, 5, #260 of 338 🔗

I think that, like many politicians, Boris was a libertarian UNTIL he got his grubby hands on the tiller. May is dead, long live May II.

4609 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to IanE, #261 of 338 🔗

Personally I think Boris was lma libertarian till he caught the lurg himself. Understandable i suppose, but not being able to separate one’s own personal experience from the bleedin obvious does not a leader make

4271 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 3, #262 of 338 🔗

Hi,
I’m feeling slightly more optimistic today. On my walk with the dog this morning none of the people I encountered scattered away in fear on my approach as they have done before, none tried to move two metres away. The mood seems to be slowly changing, I think I read somewhere that the British do ‘quiet disobedience’ quite well and that seems to be happening.
On another note, I need some help with something that I don’t quite understand and am struggling to verbalise. I appreciate that the 8th April peak means that the peak infections were before lockdown, apparently thus pointing to the fact that the lockdown didn’t change matters. However, isn’t the counter argument that we should have locked down earlier and then the peak would’ve been earlier? I’ve spoken to someone and that’s effectively what they said but I struggled verbalising a coherent counter response. So, what I’m asking is how can I simply explain (and understand) that the 8th April figure disproves the efficacy of total lockdown? Thanks.
BTW, I sent my email to Sir Starmer yesterday, I’ll keep you informed if/when I get a response.
Kevin

4283 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Moomin, 4, #263 of 338 🔗

The argument is that the infection rate was already falling for some other reason (yet to be proven) e.g. hand washing was highly effective or maybe the epidemic began much earlier and our visible cases were the tail end (see discussion below).

It is difficult to verbalise a response because of course if you lock a country down indefinitely you can ensure that there is virtually no infectious disease transmission. Equally if we make driving a motor vehicle illegal we will prevent all car accidents. Would we accept the trade offs?

Is there any evidence that an earlier lockdown would have changed the outcome? Certainly not yet. All the available data points to an infection with high rates of asymptomatic cases which makes it impossible to determine when it started or how widespread it is except with the benefit of hindsight and time for analysis.

Even if you had a crystal ball, the reasons you should not lockdown are well-expessed by the Swedish authorities. Apart from the fact that we like to think of ourselves as a democratic society, in the absence of a cure you cannot prevent the inevitable casualties. You are simply delaying and damaging your financial ability to provide future solutions and care. That is why many people could sympathise with the humanity behind a short lockdown that allowed the NHS to reorganise to preserve dignity and ensure we did not have needless deaths for lack of care.

4290 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to GLT, 3, #264 of 338 🔗

Great, many thanks. I understand better now. If true, and I believe it is, it’s kind of the nail in the coffin (pardon the pun) for the efficacy of lockdown. I believe the cases we’ve seen are the tail end, I’m pretty convinced my family and I had it mid-December, we were really poorly and had to go to the out of hours clinic at the local hospital.

4311 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Moomin, 7, #265 of 338 🔗

If you look at the data on R0 it plummeted as soon as we put handwashing and being sensible in place, and it’s remained below 1, significantly so, ever since, therefore it was not lockdown that did it, there was no need for lockdown. Plus if you look at the sage papers for their assumptions and benefit / cost analysis it’s clear that the only measures that work at all are washing your hands, staying at home if sick (on the assumption of 50% compliance) and being sensible if over 75. That’s it. Therefore, what we were doing before flattened it, before we even locked down (there’s a lag between infection and death, and a huge lag between date of death and reporting of death, CEBM mapping on date of death). Plus from what we now know about transmission, you cannot catch it outside, in fleeting encounters, only by prolonged exposure at close proximity (even then even in a household with a sickperson, only 40% catch it). Big pieces in the Times and Mail today from a Kings College expert saying the data is dodgy because we’re disregarding loads of symptoms which means infections are two thirds higher than thought (which drives the IFR down). That has been circulating since Dec / Jan (I had it in Jan). I suspect this is why we’re not doing antibody testing, as it’d prove all this and cause uproar.

4354 ▶▶▶ Bob, replying to BecJT, 3, #266 of 338 🔗

I think the same thing about the antibody testing. I also think I had it in Feb – driest cough ever!

4441 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Bob, 4, #267 of 338 🔗

I’m sure I had it at Christmas – bad sore throat followed by a debilitating dry cough that wouldn’t shift for two weeks, and I was still not myself for several weeks following. If it wasn’t Covid then I’m not sure what it was, as it was unlike any cold or flu bug I’d had before.

I’m positive it’s been circulating since December which would mean many more people have had it, making this lockdown even more pointless.

4294 wendyk, 1, #268 of 338 🔗

https://youtu.be/WZhIcS4adwE

For those who are struggling with lessons at home…….

4300 Mark, replying to Mark, 9, #269 of 338 🔗

An unusually sensible attitude, but perhaps even more unusual that the BBC those to publish it. I suspect they wouldn’t have done so even a week ago, but now the insistence on promoting fear for the Greater Good seems to be relaxing a little.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-52568535

“However, Matt said he was not scared about the coronavirus reaching the rig after comparing the statistics from the outbreak with the UK’s usual annual death toll of about 600,000.

He said more people had died during the Beast from the East storms in 2018 than had died from Covid-19 so far in the UK.

“I’ve looked at the Covid-19 mortality rates and the numbers dying from it are very small compared to the number of deaths per year,” he added.

“I don’t feel scared after looking at the statistics… you have to try to be rational about it.””

4302 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, #270 of 338 🔗

[Not sure why he thinks the storms in 2018 were that bad, though. Is he talking worldwide?]

4342 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mark, #271 of 338 🔗

He’s talking about how many people died over the time they occurred because of the cold for a large part. Not just the storms themselves.

4346 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to mhcp, 1, #272 of 338 🔗

If memory serves, 30k oldies die each winter due to cold.

4608 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, #273 of 338 🔗

My head just exploded at the sheer rationality.

4329 guy153, replying to guy153, 5, #274 of 338 🔗

Good news! They’re going to reopen the garden centres! No doubt it will be a great consolation for the under 60s to be able to go out and buy some lovely Montbretias for the gardens they haven’t got with money they also haven’t got.

4332 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to guy153, 8, #275 of 338 🔗

The question is why they closed them in the first instance? Many plants had to be dumped – tragedy!

4345 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to guy153, 3, #276 of 338 🔗

Great! Aldi will be gutted they’ve been doing a roaring trade in compost and bedding plants, as a monopoly these last few weeks.

4372 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BecJT, 6, #277 of 338 🔗

Regrettably I have had to sack Aldi anyway as they wouldn’t let me in the shop because I arrived with another person or something.

4384 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to guy153, 10, #278 of 338 🔗

I drop my mum off at one end of the carpark, she goes in first, I wait five minutes and go in after, and we pretend not to know each other!

4497 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BecJT, #279 of 338 🔗

I’ll stick to Sainsbury’s. The staff at Aldi are too intelligent.

4336 ianp, replying to ianp, #280 of 338 🔗

I might have been dreaming because haven’t been sleeping well at all due to this dystopian future you know what but were my eyes deceiving me in the early hours on the sun’s website?? Was gauging MSM turn, and am SURE I saw a headline page about an infant child dying from covid??? Fucking impossible from what we know but was I hallucinating as can no longer find it…?

Tune of the day, was about racism but ties into my thoughts and theme that people have been plugged into a dream world for the past few months, so you know where it’s from…

https://youtu.be/wauzrPn0cfg

Rage against the machine – wake up

4344 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to ianp, 1, #281 of 338 🔗

Sure it wasn’t the Mirror? https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-coronavirus-tragedy-six-week-21996469

Should point out ons figures and 2500 infants (under 1yo) die annually. So that’s 6 or 7 infants deaths in England and Wales every single day. Infant mortality is 4x worse if you are poor.

Also from the photo, pretty sure that’s not an NHS hospital, I don’t think that’s the standard mask/visor?

4366 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to BecJT, 8, #282 of 338 🔗

Yes, thank you!… One final desperate throw of the dice by the MSM. Oh but the children!!!

We should never forgive them

What on earth has been their motivation behind all this? It’s incredible

4382 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to ianp, 8, #283 of 338 🔗

Selling papers, having got what they wanted they are stuck with ONE story moving at the pace of a snail, and having run with ‘selfish man goes to shop for non essential cellotape’ said man stayed at home and didn’t buy a newspaper either! Sales have tanked, ad sales are down, I think they scratching around for any angle to shift units. I hope there is a Leveson style inquiry when this is over.

4348 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to ianp, 8, #284 of 338 🔗

Kids and the under 40s die from flu every year, so there is a possibility that someone in these age groups could die from COVID but unlikely. Either they died from another disease but because they displayed some type of Covid symptoms the death certificate indicated COVID.

There are many kids with severe deficiencies, especially Vitamin D deficiency that result in compromised immune systems without them being diagnosed as immune compromised. An example is the teenager that got blind last year due to a vitamin A deficiency (he only consumed junk ‘white foods’ and despite the doctors advising him to eat better he did not – sorry couldn’t find a link).

The average baby, kid and younger people will be fine.

4350 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Victoria, 2, #285 of 338 🔗

Agreed, and we have some of the worst child mortality in Europe, as we have some of the worst deprivation in Europe, it’s very closely linked. Flu is deadly to children and babies too. I think this baby had underlying health problems.

4351 ▶▶ Edna, replying to ianp, 11, #286 of 338 🔗

It’s on page 7 of the Telegraph. It says that the infant “had serious underlying health conditions and had remained in hospital since birth. It is not known on what day the infant died”

4383 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Edna, 8, #287 of 338 🔗

Poor little mite, it’s horrible a baby has been exploited like this, the family should have had privacy.

4402 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to ianp, #288 of 338 🔗

Can’t beat RAGM!

4349 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 28, #289 of 338 🔗

I’ve got a question. If everyone is too scared to leave the house, go to work, send kids to school, what I want to know is why aren’t all the shop workers dead? The chap in the Londis hasn’t had a day off for weeks, he’s seen thousands of people, all day every day. I’m on speaking terms with the ladies in Co-op, and I recognise every face in Aldi. They are not socially distancing with each other, or as they walk around the store. Surely it should be front page news, the tragedy of the retail workers. As far as I can see, it’s been the same team, working extra shifts, through extremely busy periods, and they’re all in fine fettle.

4352 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 9, #290 of 338 🔗

Building up immunity as they (and we) would do ordinarily. That is, if we weren’t forbidden from opening up our businesses/working …

Same in my local shop. I accidentally brushed the hand of the chap behind the till and felt compelled to apologise and he wasn’t bothered in the slightest.

4374 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to kh1485, 4, #291 of 338 🔗

Just been to Tesco. Only people wearing masks are in their twenties.

4385 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 6, #292 of 338 🔗

Somebody saw a lad the other day in a full crime scene paper suit, mask and gloves. They are more likely to be hit by an asteroid than die of covid.

4428 ▶▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 2, #293 of 338 🔗

They are allowing you a view of their most virtuous signal, I hope you thanked them?

4519 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #294 of 338 🔗

I hope every family has at least one rebellious member who takes pictures of their folks in masks. And drags them out every Christmas from now until eternity. 🙂

4358 ▶▶ Maud Boggins, replying to BecJT, 6, #295 of 338 🔗

What a brilliant observation. Bravo. Truly excellent and infinitely sensible.

4362 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to BecJT, 15, #296 of 338 🔗

Same here; whenever I visit the local Morrison’s, I ask the staff how they are. They’re all well-thankfully- and cheerfully carrying on.

They’ve all said that the first few weeks were bad- when the loo roll smash and grab raids were in full swing, amid much bad behaviour but now, all is well.

These folk deserve medals; they’ve kept us all going, they’re mostly paid the minimum wage and they never complain.

Politicians and MSM please note.

4377 ▶▶▶ Morris_Day, replying to wendyk, 12, #297 of 338 🔗

I’ve spent weeks thinking people were scared and that lead their reaction.
That changed last night when the Guardian published their article about excess deaths that vastly outstrip Covid deaths both in and out of care homes and at the same time released a statement saying we should be in lockdown for three more weeks….

I posted it all over my social media and not a person responded. Not a single person. Now I think it’s apathy and the simple fact that people are quite enjoying chance to recharge their batteries.
The fact that I’m already on 20% less wage and their is no plan to reverse that, people I know and like will be out of a job very soon and my kids education and future is impended more each day this goes on, no one seems to care.

4380 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Morris_Day, 10, #298 of 338 🔗

We’ve discussed this before here, I think it’s dishonesty too, they turn out and clap, but really when they say save lives, they mean ‘me’. And I never thought I’d say this, as generally I tend to think people are good, but I’m starting to think we’re a bunch of workshy, idle layabouts, not helped by great weather, and cut price booze in the supermarket. That’s on employers too, some jobs and conditions are truly grim, but if you hated your job, you’re getting paid, your disposable income goes up (even if your total income goes down) as you’re on a mortgage holiday, you’re not paying for a commute, meals out, cinema tickets, gym membership, new schools shoes etc, what’s not to like?

4378 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to wendyk, 10, #299 of 338 🔗

I agree, and unlike healthcare staff, no PPE. We’ve only had those silly screen things (with a ruddy great hole in them!) for a couple of weeks, they are bustling around the store, working hard, they must be tired and run down, they seem totally fine. Plus they go home to their families, as do we after we’ve interacted with them, you’d think shops would be a hotbed of disease?

4389 ▶▶ Biker, replying to BecJT, 15, #300 of 338 🔗

Can confirm, my wife, daughter and myself all work for a big supermarket and no one in our store has come down with this and we have another even bigger store less than five miles from me and no one there has had it. I must have seen multiple tens of thousand of people in the last few weeks. I am in Scotland and we’ve got less of the invisible illness but even still. In my area of 365000 people we’ve got less than one hundred people in hospital and they all appear to be very old people. It’s anecdotal i know but there it is

4433 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Biker, 2, #301 of 338 🔗

Interesting. I bet that’s the same everywhere. PS bet you’re shattered, dealing with the mindless loo roll hoarders for weeks!

4607 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Biker, 1, #302 of 338 🔗

Thanks for what you’re doing 😊

Indeed, retail workers are just getting on with it. As are warehouse staff from what I’ve seen. Lo! The people who actually keep the country running are doing so without complaint and without demanding a payrise! (Take note, NHS).

Actually at least that’s one good thing that may come out of this. People will suddenly realise who really keeps the country going.

4353 JohnB, 2, #303 of 338 🔗
4355 ChrisH29, 9, #304 of 338 🔗

“…without jeopardising his career.” That is as big a story as the fiasco over lockdown. How can journalists be censored so effectively? Without free reporting, as it once was, it is worthless as is democracy.

4357 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, #305 of 338 🔗

I would like to suggest that people do not use the “f” word in comments on this site. We should present our thoughts calmly and rationally if we want to gain support from the not-so-sceptical.

4359 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Back To Normal, 3, #306 of 338 🔗

Feel free however to use the “C” word (so long as it’s followed by the number 19) 😉

4365 ▶▶ ChrisH29, replying to Back To Normal, 11, #307 of 338 🔗

Which one – Ferguson?

4401 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Back To Normal, 6, #308 of 338 🔗

Guilty as charged…But It’s hard to hold in the rage that has been building for the past couple of months that was so obviously the wrong move to anyone who had half a brain

4435 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to ianp, 2, #309 of 338 🔗

Why? Apparently swearers not only have bigger vocabularies, but are are more ‘trustworthy’ than non-swearers 😊 apparently swearing is like the beard of conversation

4438 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Back To Normal, #310 of 338 🔗

Well, I agree with the suggestion, but I don’t think many of the hard-of-understanding will come here!

4370 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 8, #311 of 338 🔗

Hi folks. Wow, a busy set of comments in the past few hours.

Ok, so I’ve been thinking. If the MPs are not responding to their inboxes, perhaps we can use social media to make them sit up and take notice. Here’s what I’m suggesting.

Set up a Twitter account. We agree a defined message, and at an identified date and time, everyone tweets at Dominic Raab and Matt Hancock to end the lockdown.

Around 10 years ago I attended an anti-austerity event that was campaigning against cuts to youth services. At a pre-arranged time we all sent the exact same tweet to the then Minister for Young People and Families and it was very effective. I think this technique has a name like Tweet-bombing or something like this. If we can get some big names on Twitter to support it, I guarantee it will be effective. The key is getting everyone to do it at the same time.

Suggested message:

“This lockdown is destroying our lives and our economy. There is no scientific justification or legal authority to allow this to continue. We demand our freedom be returned now.
#WeWillBeFree”

Comments…?

PS I have started up my own Twitter page to begin campaigning. It’s only tiny at the moment, but I have been linking up with many others who’ve been retweeting my MP letter for example.

https://twitter.com/WeWillBeFree82

4429 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to RDawg, 3, #312 of 338 🔗

I’m banned on twitter for wrong think alas, but it’s a good idea.

4437 ▶▶ IanE, replying to RDawg, 2, #313 of 338 🔗

The trouble is that there are a lot of very short-sighted sheeple out there who want even more Lockdown. You just have to look at sites like order-order(dot)com to see that, even on the right of politics, there are many very easily led and panicked idiots out there. They WILL not see anything which contradicts their world-view. A tragedy, but that is much of humanity.

4373 Mimi, 5, #314 of 338 🔗

For goodness sake: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/09/doctors-frontline-worst-hit-city-world-say-time-end-shutdown/

Of course, there have been NYC doctors and doctors elsewhere in the U.S. calling for reopening for weeks.

4376 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 7, #315 of 338 🔗

Just thinking, but say a virus emerges in the next few years that really DOES require a brutal lockdown for a lengthy period of time to save humanity. Something with, say, a death rate of 80% for under 65s and 100% for those older, and easily transmissible. When the backlash from C-19 has happened, it will be next to impossible to persuade the population in western countries to believe the threat and obey the lockdown. Like the boy who cried wolf.

4381 ▶▶ Oaks79, replying to Gillian, 2, #316 of 338 🔗

Me personally would follow the data and science and if i could see that the death rate was high as 80% I would take it seriously.

4399 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Oaks79, 11, #317 of 338 🔗

If the death rate was 80% it could never spread to be a pandemic … Kill too many people too quickly

4410 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to ianp, 4, #318 of 338 🔗

I don’t think that would help. With SARS-COV2 you’re either dead or immune after a few weeks. The virus doesn’t care which. So if 80% were dying it could still spread just the same. The social response would be different though and you would also notice it sooner.

If it wasn’t for PCR testing we would probably not have noticed this pandemic at all.

4416 ▶▶▶▶▶ Old fred, replying to guy153, 1, #319 of 338 🔗

like Hong Kong Flu back in the 1960’s.

4707 ▶▶▶▶▶ Joe Smith, replying to guy153, #320 of 338 🔗

” it wasn’t for PCR testing we would probably not have noticed this pandemic at all.”

If it wasnt for all the *media coverage/scaremongering* nobody would ever have noticed or commented on this “pandemic”

4432 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to ianp, #321 of 338 🔗

Unless it was slow-acting, of course.

4406 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Gillian, 3, #322 of 338 🔗

You’d hope that governments and society would have learned from this epidemic how to deal with it better. Unlikely I know.

If it was that fatal you would notice it sooner and might manage to achieve containment/eradication early on. You wouldn’t be in this crazy situation of having extended lockdowns after an epidemic had already mostly finished.

I’ve read that one of the reasons SARS2 is more infectious but less fatal than SARS1 is because it’s usually an upper respiratory tract infection (ie a cold) whereas SARS1 is more often deeper inside the lungs.

But there is no guarantee that something in the future won’t be both highly contagious and deadly.

4442 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Gillian, 4, #323 of 338 🔗

Correct. There also will be no money left.

4387 Oaks79, replying to Oaks79, 12, #324 of 338 🔗

“Life won’t return to normal”, “we are entering a new world” – what is this nonsense ??

4392 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Oaks79, 5, #325 of 338 🔗

Well if we are going to pretend we are living in a world that is stalked by an endemic virus that has the infectiousness of flu or worse and the deadliness of ebola, then yes, of course we are going to have to change our society profoundly for the worse and give up much of what we comfortably assumed was ours, from wealth to liberty.

We are all going to have to live the way only those rather pathetic hygiene- and disease-obsessives did in the past. And if we prefer not to we will be compelled by law, with the approval of the fearful majority.

4405 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Oaks79, 4, #326 of 338 🔗

Meet the new world same as the old world …aka Soviet Russia Nazi Germany and our friends the CCP

4425 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to tonyspurs, 3, #327 of 338 🔗

But we mustn’t get fooled again…

4710 ▶▶ Joe Smith, replying to Oaks79, #328 of 338 🔗

I think wearing facemasks in public might become a ‘new normal’, as it has been in Asia for some time already.

4412 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 7, #329 of 338 🔗

Judging by the photos in The Mail online this afternoon it’s game over for the lockdown. Unless Boris is prepared to send in water cannons or the army there’s no way the Police can control it any longer. Maybe that’s part of the plan.

4414 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Hammer Onats, 8, #330 of 338 🔗

If the lockdown weren’t depressing enough, the idea that we are being ‘played’ in order to get the government off the hook, for what appears to be a balls-up of unimaginable enormity, is staggering …

4424 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to kh1485, 4, #331 of 338 🔗

Worryingly, that scenario actually isn’t really staggering

4426 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 1, #332 of 338 🔗

But it totally destroys trust …

4430 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 4, #333 of 338 🔗

Mine, which was conditionally on loan to Boris, went with the HS2 and Huawei decisions.

4431 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to kh1485, 3, #334 of 338 🔗

Don’t worry, I think people have rumbled them. And that’s why nobody is giving any fucks any more.

4440 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Farinances, 2, #335 of 338 🔗

God, I hope so. Where I am, other than the odd pockets of elder-resistance, most seem entrenched in the ‘lockdown is good’ camp. One of my friends, who I would have had down as ardent lockdown-sceptic, is happily endorsing the herd view.

4427 Mark, replying to Mark, 10, #336 of 338 🔗

“What lockdown? Police turn sunworshipping covidiots away from the seaside amid 79F heat on ‘hottest day of the year’ as Coastguard reports highest number of call-outs since stay-at-home rules began ”

Is there nobody with inside knowledge who can “name and shame” the low-lives at the Mail responsible for their persistent use of the childish abuse term “covidiots” on their front pages (and probably inside as well)?

It merely confirms that the Mail is just a gutter rag along with the redtops, but it would still be nice if there were some comeback against the individuals involved. In future years when the disaster of this policy is generally recognised it would be nice to put names to some of the worst offenders amongst the media enablers.

4436 ▶▶ Caswell Bligh, replying to Mark, 2, #337 of 338 🔗

I agree, they demean themselves. But at the same time they actually publish Peter Hitchens and, today, there’s an excellent article by Dr. John Lee.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8302055/Bail-billions-anaesthetise-reality-economy-tatters.html

4447 Old fred, 1, #338 of 338 🔗

I am starting to believe we are now all starring in a 2020 re-make of the 1956 classic sci-fi movie ‘Forbidden Planet‘. We have created the id – an impulsive demon that takes control of us and serves its own purposes regardless of the impact to our well-being. In the film, the explorers eventually realise the invisible monster they are fighting is, in fact, themselves. I hope we can do the same.

Users

89 users made 336 comments today.

LikesUserPostsReplies
223BecJT56, 7, 2, 3, 0, 6, 4, 13, 5, 1, 4, 8, 0, 13, 2, 7, 1, 3, 10, 1, 8, 2, 8, 28, 6, 10, 10, 2, 3
109kh14857, 17, 1, 4, 0, 9, 12, 5, 10, 16, 7, 1, 9, 8, 1, 2
105wendyk16, 0, 3, 9, 1, 4, 41, 6, 7, 5, 2, 5, 0, 15
88ianp0, 27, 16, 6, 8, 1, 5, 0, 8, 6, 11
82GLT320, 3, 5, 27, 3, 6, 11, 4
81Farinances5, 0, 15, 0, 27, 17, 11, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 3
76Victoria5, 126, 0, 7, 2, 3, 3, 7, 2, 8, 8, 4
67AN other lockdown sceptic1651
61Nigel Baldwin02, 3, 4, 4, 3, 31, 4, 6, 4
59Mark H4, 2, 3, 5, 19, 12, 5, 4, 5
57IanE34, 1, 2, 9, 2, 16, 3, 3, 2, 1, 5, 0, 2, 0, 4
56Mark20, 1, 9, 2, 9, 0, 5, 10
49Maud Boggins6, 36, 1, 6
49Gracie Knoll26, 6, 12, 11, 4, 8
46guy1531, 16, -3, 4, 3, 2, 5, 5, 6, 0, 4, 3
44coalencanth1218, 24, 2
42Oaks7913, 5, 10, 2, 12
38Poppy38
36Fiat36
34Hammer Onats9, 15, 3, 7
34Old fred110, 6, 16, 1
34JohnB20, 2, 3, 2, 3, 5, 5, 3, 0, 0, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 0
33RDawg25, 8
31ScuzzaMan31
29Back To Normal21, 8, 0
29Jane in France8, 2, 4, 8, 7
27Cheezilla6, 8, 4, 4, 5
26chris c2, 1, 11, 1, 1, 10
26Ethelred the Unready2, 3, 1, 8, 2, 3, 3, 4
25GetaGrip25
23Alci23
23Pebbles23, 0
22swedenborg67, 9
20ChrisH2990, 11
19leamingtonlockdown10, 9
19Morris_Day7, 12
18Edna7, 11
17Annabel Andrew17
17BrianJR17
17Biker215
17Tom Welsh1, 8, 4, 1, 3
15jeff15
15Winston Smith0, 15
13Roger Tame13
13Beth_Riddle11, 2
13AnotherSceptic5, 06, 2
11Gillian4, 7
10Albie10
10Moomin4, 3, 3, 0
9Montag Smith9
9nowhereman9
9scepticalsue9
9FiFiTrixabelle4, 2, 0, 3
8drrobin8
8Jamie8
7Seamonster7
7OpenCorona1, 6
7MarkM3, 3, 1
6Allyouneedtoknow6
6Markus6
5Cbird5
5Csaba5
5giampi5
5Mimi5
5Snake Oil Pussy5
5Tony Rattray5
5Bob2, 3
4Sceptic4
4Steve4
4tonyspurs4
3Bob3
2Caswell Bligh2
2fiery2
2Paul B2
2Ricky2
1Dave1
1John1
1Margaret1
1Michael C1
1OpenYourEyes1
1TyRade1
0A Ze0
0Dave0
0Dave0
0John0
0mhcp0
0Joe Smith0, 0
-1John Moore0, 0, -1, 0
-18Francisco Almeida-18

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