2020-05-16

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/05/16/latest-news-32/
Published2020-05-16T12:50:10
Last updated2020-05-16T18:26:18
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:03
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8594 John B, replying to John B, 5, #1 of 547 🔗

‘ So the author of Bloomberg’s ‘Evening Briefing’ believes each of those lives is worth $24.4 million?’

The actuarial value of a life is I think $8m, although FDA uses $6m. Generally speaking if it costs more to do something than the value of doing it – don’t do it.

8615 ▶▶ Mark, replying to John B, 18, #2 of 547 🔗

Also the value actually applied in day to day healthcare decison-making in the UK by NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence) is around £30k (~$36k) per year of decent quality life saved (see for instance https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/03/29/a-health-economic-perspective-on-covid-19/ ).

So those covid victims would have to have had a remaining life expectancy of 677 years each for the spending to pass UK healthcare spending criteria.

8595 johnnymiles1, replying to johnnymiles1, 11, #3 of 547 🔗

Local Nazi Councillors out in force I see. Hopefully when common sense prevails and we’re over the lie people won’t visit Devon, Cornwall and the other resorts halting visitors and they will realise that they will have no income.

8822 ▶▶ Rick, replying to johnnymiles1, 11, #4 of 547 🔗

Sadly I have to agree (even though I have a business in Cornwall and have been outraged at the response from tourist boards, RNLI, Coastguard etc etc). Many business owners think the same but the furloughed (unemployed) have yet to wake up to the lack of opportunity facing them and their children. I have made a note to never again support those businesses and organisations that have joined in the fear chorus.

8830 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to johnnymiles1, 7, #5 of 547 🔗

It will be interesting to find out how many businesses have closed or are on the verge of closing down because I get the feeling that once the unemployment rate skyrockets these local authorities, tourist boards and even locals might be forced to change their tune.

And of course there’s also the likelihood that their young will have to move elsewhere to find work meaning that these areas will be depopulated.

8969 ▶▶▶ Anonymous, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #6 of 547 🔗

They’ll be begging people to visit when it suits them.

9015 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Anonymous, #7 of 547 🔗

Exactly. Especially as when they realise that their economies have crumbled and young people are leaving in droves because all the jobs and career and business prospects have dried up.

8598 Cody, replying to Cody, 43, #8 of 547 🔗

Let’s hope that people remember the attitude of these councils, tourist boards and national parks when they’re crying out for our money in the future.

8605 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Cody, 43, #9 of 547 🔗

Hello Cody. Started to compile a list of businesses where I live that demand masks as a requirement to go into them. There is currently no regulations or guidelines obliging them to do so. I won’t forget those businesses who treat their customers like livestock. It just boggles the mind that businesses that have been forcibly shut for 2 months are going out of their way to alienate potential customers.

8617 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, 8, #10 of 547 🔗

On the other hand, if the majority of their potential customers are teriffied of venturing outside due to the official propaganda, you can hardly blame the businesses for setting up a pretense that it’s a safe zone. Don’t forget, we lockdown sceptics are, unfortunately, still in the minority.

8637 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Cheezilla, 27, #11 of 547 🔗

Hello Cheezilla. I take your point and it did occur to me that they are trying to créate a safe space for the covid walking dead. My problem with it is that they are contributing to this continuing state of fear. I’ve lost all patience with these people and those who pander to them.

8714 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, 1, #12 of 547 🔗

I’m afraid you’re right. They can’t win!

8626 ▶▶▶ Cody, replying to paulito, 6, #13 of 547 🔗

Unfortunately they cannot see past the fear instilled into them by mass media and the “experts” who’s views they’re allowed to read in such publications

8614 ▶▶ karate56, replying to Cody, 31, #14 of 547 🔗

Regardless of their Royston Vaseyism and keep things local, these idiots don’t have any legal or ethical remit to force visitors away. Intend to go to Weymouth very soon, and ko one can, by decree of the government, stop me. I’m going to get some fish and chips if possible and eat them on the harbour wall. I’m going to go up by Nothe fort at my leisure, then I’m going to sit on the beach, and weather permitting, go for a paddle. Anyone who says otherwise, can do one.
Who the hell do these people think they are? No doubt there’ll be attempted intimidation, a police presence, maybe they’ll chuck rocks at me or shout murderer. Either way, I intend to make a day of it, and blissfully smile and give them the finger.

8623 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karate56, 10, #15 of 547 🔗

If you’re going for the day, the public loos are closed, so remember to take a bottle with you ……

8768 ▶▶▶▶ Eve, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #16 of 547 🔗

How can we recognise each other, us lockdown sceptics, when out and about?

Is there a special app to locate a nearby sceptic, perhaps?

8931 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Eve, 1, #17 of 547 🔗

I think we need a secret handshake or discreetly draw a symbol on the ground like those early Christians.

9199 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Eve, 1, #18 of 547 🔗

Maybe just wear a Free Hugs t-shirt?

8792 ▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Cody, 5, #19 of 547 🔗

The same goes for the supermarkets. Tesco have been the worst around where I live, with scowling staff barking orders at customers to ‘step away from the basket’ in the manner of airport security with the menacing tone and ‘one look and you’re out of here’ glint in their eye to match.

8821 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Digital Nomad, 5, #20 of 547 🔗

I think it was Biker a few posts back (gosh you folks write lots, mostly good but when it takes more than a day to read a day’s worth of posts . . .) who pointed out there had been no cases in his supermarket.

I asked the question during my weekly shop and was told there had been one (probable) case out of a couple of dozen customer facing staff, so it is obviously really contagious, right?

No cases in the other local shops and farm shops either

9200 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Digital Nomad, 1, #21 of 547 🔗

I’ve boycotted Tesco for many years. Obviously nothing to tempt me back there now!

9224 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, #22 of 547 🔗

I’be boycotted Tescos since I was a trucker back in the seventies. We would be held up for hours waiting to tip because they had so few staff on the back door. My transport manager reckoned they used people’s trucks as mobile warehouses – and of course while we were queueing we weren’t delivering to their rivals.

Nothing like the same problems with other supermarkets.

8604 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #23 of 547 🔗

so police monitoring possibility of mass demonstrations in parks-little to report apart from Corbyn gets arrested. Meanwhile in the Peak district….

8624 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #24 of 547 🔗

Shhh. Don’t tell them!

8758 ▶▶ IanE, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #25 of 547 🔗

Piers Corbyn for anyone who doesn’t yet know!

8610 Simon Dutton, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #26 of 547 🔗

The Sun “newspaper” is running a story online with the headline “Scuffles as dozens of protestors including Jeremy Corbyn’s brother whinge about coronavirus lockdown in Hyde Park”

To this the erudite and thoughtful readership has appended its commentary, a sample of which I reproduce here.

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Look at them, typical, grown older tree huggers

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They are brain dead, thoughtless dweebs. Theres got to be an uninhabited island around the coast of this country that these idiots can be put on and left. They could be self sufficient and live in their own little bubble. Crack on.

****

Really?? You know I always wished that no person in the world would get covid-19!! But now……..!
I lost to close family members, it is a horrible horrible death. Those who don’t get oxygen help will grasping for their last breath.
So you lefty morons….. 🤬

****

Total brainwashed nobodies. Go back to where you came from, the world doesn’t give a damn about your thoughts.

****

Only needed to see the surname Corbyn to know that it was going to be a load of the unwashed…. Probably the same lot that Greta gets flocking round her. These lot are more worried about a virus being wiped out claiming that it deserves to live even if human lives are at stake. Same lot strangely enough are the ones that think 5G is dangerous…. only dangerous to them as it means people can find out that their BS is easily debunked with truthful science instead of “we all live on a flat Earth & will fall off the end… Corbyn’s brother is one of the crackpots that managed to infiltrate the Glastonbury 5G research group which funnily enough is made up of prominent anti-5G activists, homeopathic former GP, a woman that claims to be sensitive to WiFi/electromagnetic radiation yet had no issues sitting next to an active wireless router (she was only told after she left the building), etc, etc.

****

Community service on a covid-19 ward with no PPE should sort them out.

— To which someone has replied: Keep hiding behind your curtains and believing all you are told by he political class. Remember that the most compliant sheep are always the first to be slaughtered. (Heavily down-voted, and answered thus: Same garbage as always tin foil king “sheep are always the first to be slaughtered.” Who told you to say it YouTube? The lizard people? Oh wait you still havent got back to me about fully reading article 21 that you lived to go on about have you.
Clap along like the seal you are to the rest of the tin foil crowd.)

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The moon landings are fake, Elvis is still alive and Santa lives in lapland.

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Morons

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I hope the police are ensuring there are plenty of accidents on the stairs in the cop shops tonight!

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Stop their benefits and give them a bath

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Use BoJo ‘s water cannon, with domestos

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And good well done people..thanks god some people are not brainwashed and can think THERE IS NO PANDEMIC VIRUS IS FAKE….WAKE UP PEOPLE ITS GONNA BE TO LATE SOON

— Heavily downvoted, with two replies: 1. Hope you start coughing soon commie 2. If that was the case why would every single country in the world want to ruin their economy? You tin foil loon.

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Where are those prison ships? pile them all on there and let them rot.

****

Et cetera.

Incidentally (and do by all means burnish your tinfoil hats before reading this), the health case against pulsed electromagnetic radiation (from cell-towers, wi-fi, mobile phones, etc.) has already been proved. This is a good place to start if you’re curious: https://ehtrust.org/

The high-frequency millimetre waves used in 5G are especially worrisome, given that one’s only shelter from them will be in a Faraday cage. Yep, a house lined with tinfoil! Here is a talk about 5G by Frank Clegg, former President of Microsoft Canada and thus also a conspiracy-sniffing loon who believes the royal family are lizards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIV39-KOzh0

8630 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Simon Dutton, 25, #27 of 547 🔗

The term for all this nonsense is projection. Attributing to others your own faults. It’s interesting that the Sun claims that we’re all lonny lefties and the Guardian that we’re all racist right wing brexiteers.

8639 ▶▶▶ Arsebiscuits, replying to paulito, 2, #28 of 547 🔗

Two wrongs don’t make a right seemingly

8682 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to paulito, 1, #29 of 547 🔗

EXACTLY.

8638 ▶▶ Arsebiscuits, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #30 of 547 🔗

Sounds like the 77th brigade’s working overtime there.

8991 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Arsebiscuits, 1, #31 of 547 🔗

I’ve noticed 3 types of “commentators and I think they are:

– pro-narrative, rabid, threatening with bad grammar, spelling, syntax etc -scared to death non-thinking oxygen thief or an useful idiot and paid troll

– lots of down votes, occasional “sensible” comment added but sometimes in a strange place and out of context, written a little bit better than above – probably the 77th

– anti-narrative, normal well reasoned even if spelling etc not perfect – real person

8654 ▶▶ nat, replying to Simon Dutton, 9, #32 of 547 🔗

I am in Australia and the protests here last weekend attracted comments almost identical to these. I am not entirely sure they weren’t all written by our friends from Sage.

8655 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Simon Dutton, 19, #33 of 547 🔗

I inadvertently wandered into the Sun’s comment section before Christmas. I had to go and have a shower. My mental health has been a bit fragile ever since.

8796 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Simon Dutton, 6, #34 of 547 🔗

Interesting that the Daily Mail labels the protesters ‘hard left’:

“The lockdown rebels: Nineteen protesters are arrested – including Jeremy Corbyn’s brother – in clashes with police at Hyde Park rally against the government’s coronavirus restrictions with more hard left demos held across the country”

Makes a change.

8872 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #35 of 547 🔗

As someone said in these comments – the The Mail, we’re loony Marxists. To The Guardian, we’re Neo-Nazis.

8873 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 4, #36 of 547 🔗

((Which means we’re probably talking sense!!))

9088 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Simon Dutton, 3, #37 of 547 🔗

“Stop their benefits”

What like your furlough, you mean?

8612 Mimi, replying to Mimi, 21, #38 of 547 🔗

My husband has continued to graph the data from the United States. His latest is a graph of daily deaths per 100,000 people by degree of lockdown, divided into three categories: high, medium, and low levels of lockdown. Each category contains 17 states (50 plus DC).

Conclusion: the states with the highest levels of lockdown have the highest daily death rates. By FAR. The middle level and lowest levels had almost the same (much lower) daily death rates, but even there, the lowest level of lockdown produced the lowest daily death rates.

Which goes along with his other conclusion that COVID-19 is deadlier in Blue states.

Our suspicion is that lockdown and associated responses are what is causing COVID death rates to be as high as they are. If we had simply run society as usual, with extra handwashing and staying home when sick, and let the medical establishment operate as it knows how to do, death rates might well have been much lower. Interfering with normal movements and hospital/nursing home operations has confounded the normal course of a virus.

8656 ▶▶ Thomas Pelham, replying to Mimi, 3, #39 of 547 🔗

To be fair, it could be that states which had the highest death rates locked down the hardest. I’m sure a competent statistician could work out how to analyse that though.

8657 ▶▶▶ Thomas Pelham, replying to Thomas Pelham, #40 of 547 🔗

Not saying your husband isn’t, but I can’t do it!

8660 ▶▶▶ Mimi, replying to Thomas Pelham, 1, #41 of 547 🔗

Of course. There are all sorts of factors we don’t know. This is just the pure numbers, based on state reporting. And of course we don’t know how comparable all those numbers are either.

There’s also the matter that death rates in almost all states are quite low relative to total populations. New York really is a significant outlier. In many states, deaths are in the low three-digits.

8799 ▶▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Mimi, #42 of 547 🔗

New York is bankrupt, They fudged the numbers to get that sweet Medicare cash.

8727 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Mimi, 4, #43 of 547 🔗

I think what we’re seeing is higher death rates in places that got their asses kicked more. They locked down more severely out of panic but then let the infection rage through the hospitals care-home style. So you end up with a high ratio of death to people infected outside the hospital.

I think there are two main reasons why lockdowns don’t have much effect. They’re usually too late, and much less aggressive voluntary measures are enough to drop R below 1 which kills the epidemic.

If we look at Iceland who have done masses of testing and had few enough critical cases that they have been able to deal with them we get a very reliable CFR of 0.55%. The IFR will be somewhere between 0.08% (what you get if you assume their tests were a random sample) and 0.55%, towards the lower end of that range. That 0.55% is actual deaths over actual cases and involves no extrapolation or projecting the epidemic across time. I think this is the best measure we have of the actual characteristics of the disease. The average age and obesity in Iceland is similar to New York.

8868 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mimi, 4, #44 of 547 🔗

Could be a few factors but some general observations I’ve made from the stats I’ve looked at:
1. Stricter and longer lockdowns cause more excess deaths
2. People look at countries like NZ and attribute their success to locking down. This is false. NZ isolating the virus was the reason for their success, it was not due to the lockdown. Japan and South Korea did the same thing with no lockdown
3. People infected with the virus take it home, lock down and are more likely to infect their household. The fact they’re spending hours together in enclosed spaces is likely to lead to them getting a higher concentration of virus and more severe symptoms as a result

8618 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 1, #45 of 547 🔗

I like the Germans’ colourful head spaghetti. Necessity is the mother of invention

8685 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to wendyk, 3, #46 of 547 🔗

Would you really wear a pool noodle on your head though? I think if I cafe proprietor offered me one I’d be a bit insulted he thought I didn’t know how far 100cm is.

8697 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to BecJT, #47 of 547 🔗

Yes, I was being sarcastic BecJT

8721 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to wendyk, 7, #48 of 547 🔗

I shall walk into my local garden centre with one of those hats on next time and see what reaction I get! 🙂 Everyone was being really nice to each other in there today, very polite, avoiding each others queuing nicely behind the floor markers. I was glad to see the staff were wearing face shields instead of masks, as somehow they aren’t as intimidating to me, as I’m slightly deaf and have to lip read. I did a lot of winking and raising eyebrows at people on the way round, and surprisingly got quite a few acknowledgments of understanding. Then we all go outside with our trollies of plants, everyone was parked up close to each other, and groups formed to chat! It’s nice to know I’m not the only rebel around here . . .

8782 ▶▶▶ Splendid Acres, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #49 of 547 🔗

I’m a bit mutton, too. Tinnitus in both ears. I dislike ANY face coverings for that exact reason. You come to lip read without even knowing you’re doing it, and it’s only when you get into Monty Python conversations with somebody who pronounces their th as ff, or s as th that you realise how you’ve adapted.

8800 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to CarrieAH, 13, #50 of 547 🔗

No matter how politely or jovially people step out of the way and ‘distance’ themselves from me; I still want to scream at them to get a grip. I’m becoming increasingly intolerant of all this and found myself shaking my head at people for just doing what they think is right. It’s made monsters of us all.

8817 ▶▶▶▶ Scapes, replying to South Coast Worker, 4, #51 of 547 🔗

Me too, someone literally cowered away from me earlier…..a good 6′ away

8620 A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, 50, #52 of 547 🔗

Just returned from the gathering at Glasgow Green. Not too many people there but it was refreshing to be able
to talk to like-minded, liberty loving human beings of all ages and political affiliations and no right wing rhetoric.

Many people said they were wary of coming as they didn’t know if there would be people just like them and they were delighted to find that there were. We all had hugs and exchanged contact details.

Two of the people I talked to were self employed and were refusing to take the government’s money as they saw it as a bribe to stay silent.

There were a lot of journalists there so I don’t know what they will show/print.

The police to their credit did not interfere.

We are meeting again next week.

A HUG IS HEALTH.

8641 ▶▶ Arsebiscuits, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, 1, #53 of 547 🔗

Your called Right wing extremists by The Herald covering the Glasgow green protest. Lol

8716 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, 2, #54 of 547 🔗

Awesome!

8722 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, 1, #55 of 547 🔗

Great stuff! Well done.m

8621 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 80, #56 of 547 🔗

Hi everyone,

Keeping the theme of hope alive (which we all really need right now for the sake of our mental health), there are FOUR reasons why I believe life will be back to normal for that NYE party and that 11.59pm “Thank God that’s behind us!” moment.

1. A vast proportion of lockdown zealots are being furloughed. We know people are seeing this as an extended summer holiday. Sadly Sunak decided to extend this to October. However, once the money runs out (which it will) suddenly there will be a sea change in opinion, and they will stop using this “it’s not safe” nonsense, and be forced to go back to work.

2. The same will apply with education. All schools will be returning in September. There might be a bit of social distancing nonsense for a short while, but that will settle and schools/teachers will realise social distancing will be impossible to sustain. I work in schools, kids are naturally drawn to each other. They will not tolerate it.

3. Like all respiratory viruses, they burn themselves out. We can see this by looking at the infection and death curves from all countries, regardless of intervention. By the end of Summer (circa September) I’m predicting almost complete elimination of this virus. There will be no reason to continue the current measures.

4. There is now HUGE resistance to the lockdown:
– The 1922 Committee are totally against it
– Protests happening today all over the country
– Simon Dolan’s legal challenge
– Successful legal challenges in Wisconsin, Czech Republic and soon we will see many more.
– The increase in popularity of this brilliant blog and other such anti-lockdown websites.

Believe me when I say this, right now it is really hard for everyone. We are all feeling down, despondent and at the point of despair. But I implore you not to give up. If history has taught us one thing, it is that all suffering is temporary. This too shall pass. So, look forward to that non-socially distanced NYE party. You might not get to have your foreign summer holiday this year, but by Summer 2021 I promise you that you will have the holiday of a lifetime. Have faith, like all pandemics, this will end. Social distancing, masks and lockdowns will all be forgotten and you will be ready to live your life again once more. Never give up hope. The tide is turning in our favour.

#WeWillBeFree

R Dawg

8625 ▶▶ paulito, replying to RDawg, 13, #57 of 547 🔗

Hello R Dawg. The most stressful aspect for me of this whole sorry affair was the internal debate as to whether it was a huge cock up or something more sinister. I believe there is indeed something other than mass histeria and over reaction behind this, but having come to terms with it I feel much more optimistic. and that whatever the reasons for the insanity it’s up to us to stop it and,d as you say, we will be free.

8642 ▶▶▶ Arsebiscuits, replying to paulito, 1, #58 of 547 🔗

The federal reserve is behind it all. Economic deconstruction.
It’s been collapsing since September.
Follow the money.
90℅ of the world with no job as a result
Who’s to blame…

8646 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to paulito, 11, #59 of 547 🔗

Yes we will. Every time I have been in some of the darkest times throughout my life, at the time it always seemed like it would never end. But it always does. All things in life are transient. Even the good times.

Have faith this will pass, we will move on.

8650 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to paulito, 17, #60 of 547 🔗

I’m somewhere in between. I think it’s a cockup of massive proportions – one which has spread around around the world through some weird collective domino delusion. Governments are made of people after all and apparently the vast majority of people think the same on this – with their amygdalae (or the lizard brain), sadly not with their rational faculties.

However I also fail to see how people *aren’t* trying to make money out of this. As we have seen the majority of those influencing the UK gvt. have some financial ties to Big Pharma or vaccines. It’s kinda natural that they would, when you think about it. And they very probably are letting their own personal (and purse-string) biases influence the advice they’re giving, consciously or not.

Do I think it’s some sort of one-world plot for a mass surveillance society or replication of the Chinese model all around the Western world? – No. But I do think certain very insidious facets of this type of society are now being mainstreamed and fast-forwarded due to fear of The Covid. As they were following 9/11. We have to watch these movements – so as to stop them in their tracks, or at least be aware of what’s going on. Dismissing all possible behind the scenes machinations as ‘conspiracies’ is as useless as believing aforementioned lizard brain is controlling everyone because reptilians are literally living inside our rulers.

There’s some truth in most ‘conspiracies’ I think. Usually that truth is merely People Like Money & Power – and the conspiratorial person exaggerates that dark impulse into layers and layers of Macchiavellian intention that just don’t exist. People just want cash – they will get it at the cost of other people who want cash – and this is what generally demolishes all idea of The Illuminati or whatever pretty quickly. They want *each*other’s* money more than they want to work together to bring forward the new world order 😉

8658 ▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Farinances, 4, #61 of 547 🔗

You raise some interesting points. Sadly humanity does have common elements of selfishness, greed, power and control. These are playing out significantly but also so is the panic response. Mix them all together and voila.

But I think what’s important now is to focus on the positives, and have hope that things will eventually be ok.

8668 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RDawg, 10, #62 of 547 🔗

The strongest card we have to play in this regard is that there are plenty of people who want to make money who want to do so the normal way – through commerce, but can’t becvause of the current situation. Commerce has been plunged into the toilet because of lockdown. The likes of Simon Dolan (he may be a particularly benevolent and well-meaning example but we’ll use him anyway) and Elon Musk will use their entrepreneurial impulses for good, on our behalf, hopefully.

So yeah, Bill Gates might attempt to make a few trillion out of this, but the vast majority of his partners in capitalism will want to carry on making *their millions as they did before the ‘crisis’. In the same way that all of us just want to carry with our lives as before. The scales should drop down on our side through sheer weight of numbers.

8894 ▶▶▶▶ BDSee, replying to Farinances, 8, #63 of 547 🔗

I work for big pharma and can honestly say that a strong lockdown approach to COVID19 is not financially advantageous. Look at impact on thousands of clinical trials throughout the world that have been delayed or put on hold due to the COVID19 response, and the significant delays this has in getting new medicines developed and commercialised. Not good for business!

(Beyond this financial consequences to pharma, the global health impact of drug development delays, including new life-saving medicines, is another negative consequence of the COVID19 response and one that I haven’t seen reported).

9063 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BDSee, 1, #64 of 547 🔗

That’s a very good point! Thankyou for making it

9066 ▶▶▶▶ artur, replying to Farinances, 1, #65 of 547 🔗

Is that the 77th brigade?

9083 ▶▶▶▶ John Lewis, replying to Farinances, 1, #66 of 547 🔗

Finally, a sane assessment of the conspiracy lens through which this situation is being viewed in some quarters

8786 ▶▶ IanE, replying to RDawg, 12, #67 of 547 🔗

Yes, many of us will survive this and come out fine.

But there will also be many for whom this is the beginning of the end as their jobs, education, motivation, businesses, houses, mental health, savings, futures are crushed.

I want to stay looking for the positives (and yes, I am retired and pretty well set), but to see the current level of government-led vandalism makes me close to despair.

Oh yes, and what about the many millions who will starve or perish from other diseases that are not being properly controlled due to the Covid monomania?!

8790 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to IanE, 2, #68 of 547 🔗

p.s. In the last sentence I left out ‘in the third world’. Clearly not so much of a problem in the 1st world.

8869 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to IanE, 13, #69 of 547 🔗

The flagrant disregard for the third world in this is indeed absolutely staggering and nauseating. I mean – not even the third world, but the developing world and even just countries whose primary economic engines are export markets with the west and/or tourism from the west. – Bob from the Caribbean is an example here. Has he commented today? But yeah. Nobody really seems to care as long as they get their furlough $$$$

9203 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #70 of 547 🔗

Yet!

8875 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to RDawg, 1, #71 of 547 🔗

Great post! By then, who knows, I might be working in Singapore, lol.

9018 ▶▶ Michel, replying to RDawg, #72 of 547 🔗

Can you share a link to information about successful legal challenges in Czech Republic? I can’t find anything about it myself…thanks!

8627 ScuzzaMan, replying to ScuzzaMan, 10, #73 of 547 🔗

My position is that the lock-downs have nothing to do with COVID-19(84) and so it doesn’t really matter if it really exists or not.

I greatly appreciate RDawg’s comments but I don’t agree that this will be over by Christmas. Not that we’ll then still be in lock-down due to this particular virus, but that’s not the point. This plandemic fits into a decades-long pattern of aborted attempts to achieve exactly this result, and having now cracked on the effective recipe that actually produces the desired result, those who would rule over us are not going to forget it. They’re not going to stop panicking the “herd” in order to make us do stupidly self-destructive things to ourselves, or more pertinently, demand they do them to us. We’ve already seen that the climate change fanatics refuse to let go of their personal obsession and since they’ve been trying for several decades to terrify the population into giving up civilisation in return for a fantasy of carbon-free living, they will not instantly forget the lessons of this plandemic.

Far from being over by Christmas, we have collectively all just given every single lunatic demagogue and stalinesque wannabe with a pet obsession great encouragement to believe that they can frighten the whole world into self-destructive obedience.

Over?

This has just begun.

8632 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to ScuzzaMan, 24, #74 of 547 🔗

Hi Scuzzaman,

I don’t agree in the so-called “plandemic” or some sort of sinister, malevolent plot to inject us all with a vaccine that makes us infertile and tattoos that allow our every move to be tracked and traced by Big Pharma.

This is simply a result of a panicked overreaction from multiple governments around the globe, who have been so overcome by their moral duty to “do something” they have forgotten to apply any common sense or proportion, and have now backed themselves into a corner. Governments never like to lose face or admit their mistakes, so it will be a gradual exit, but life WILL eventually return to the old normal.

Also, if I may say, I don’t think comments like yours are what we need to hear right now. People need positivity, not conspiracy theories. I think you would be better following David Icke’s twitter page, with the beliefs you have.

8636 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to RDawg, 10, #75 of 547 🔗

RDawg that’s exactly how I feel but was struggling to put it into words thanks 👍

8644 ▶▶▶ Arsebiscuits, replying to RDawg, #76 of 547 🔗

Its the federal reserve.
Nothing else.

8651 ▶▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to RDawg, 3, #77 of 547 🔗

RDawg,

Time will tell, eh?

8663 ▶▶▶ Willow, replying to RDawg, 42, #78 of 547 🔗

“I think you would be better following David Icke’s twitter page” I think that’s uncalled for and inaccurate. It’s not conspiracy to observe the unprecedented assault on freedom and personal liberty that has taken place, not only here but in many other countries. It’s not conspiracy to notice that the track and trace and immunity passport technology *are* the surveillance state. It’s not conspiracy to notice that there are massive vested interests benefiting from a government policy which is clearly not being directed by any kind of scientific, economic, moral or medical consideration. It’s not conspiracy to be aware that democracy and civil liberties have been undergoing a process of gradual erosion for at least two decades. Probably more only I wasn’t really paying attention before that.

Every aspect of this government’s response to the pandemic needs to be laid bare and subjected to scrutiny by totally independent experts and scientists. All the internal communications need to be made transparent and vested interests within SAGE and within the Cabinet need to be investigated. The government is acting with bad faith, that’s completely clear.

8699 ▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Willow, 2, #79 of 547 🔗

Ok fair play. Maybe the David Icke comment was a little mean. Apologies Scuzzaman. I just don’t like this “plandemic” idea. Seems too far fetched to me.

But lockdowns aside, surveillance and tracking is nothing new. Anyone who has a smartphone and uses social media,
Google, Amazon etc, is giving up a lot of their data. We’re papped on CCTV around 50 times a day when we go out in public. It’s very hard to have total privacy these days.

8710 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RDawg, 4, #80 of 547 🔗

Difference being we aren’t stopped from doing things because of this surveillance.

Yet.

8735 ▶▶▶▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to RDawg, 11, #81 of 547 🔗

RDawg
I didn’t take it personally. Freedom means we all get to have our own opinions, right? Yours is as valid as mine, considering neither of us have direct insight into the contents of various decision-makers’ heads (ugh – imagine!).
Anyway, just consider that the word plandemic doesn’t necessarily connote or imply a singular vast conspiracy. I haven’t seen a lot of evidence that our political masters are THAT clever. Or trusting of each other. But one thing they certainly are is opportunists of the first order. The political class generally doesn’t need to coordinate in advance because they all share certain interests in common and they all know where their interests lie (as do all of us).
But too, THAT insight doesn’t mean that there’s no pattern to the history of (what I call) the plandemics. Every few years we’ve been treated to these apocalyptic tales of global catastrophe, precisely because a variety of ruthless players in positions of power know that such scenarios serve to broaden their powers and enrich their sponsors. Even when they consistently turn out to be fizzers (i.e. lies or mistakes), they still serve in this fashion because (A) legal precedents are set, (B) public expectations molded, (C) funds allocated, and (D) ex post facto justifications promulgated by the same face-saving media that ginned up the pan(dem)ic in the first place.
(“ Hardly any excess deaths, you say? See – the lock-downs worked! “)
As the once-Mayor of Chicago famously observed in 2008, you never let a good crisis go to waste. Why? In his own words, because in a crisis people will let you do things you would never otherwise get away with. So people in power who want more power (“ What do all men with power want? More power. “) have a built-in incentive to engineer crises, real or imagined, and by giving in to the fear and screaming to be rescued from a seasonal flu variant, we the people have just given them every incentive to create new ones. As above, and as we’re seeing with this one, these don’t have to be real in order to be effective. The authorities and the media simply have to repeat the story often enough and a lot of people will swallow it.
But to think they will not follow this incentive is a positivity step too far for me.
I don’t believe in their James-Bond-villain mastermindery, but nor do I believe they have any moral or intellectual restraints except those we vigorously impose on them.
I hope that I am wrong and that you are right.
I just don’t believe it.
Good day to you, sir.

8832 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to ScuzzaMan, 5, #82 of 547 🔗

Back in the day my friends and I would read Stand On Zanzibar and 1984 and think “this must never happen”.

Meanwhile our contemporaries were reading the same books and thinking “that’s a really good idea!”

IMO the crisis was largely invented and is being exploited for all it is worth, no way is it going to waste. I strongly expect compulsory vaccination, government tracking and media censorship is here to stay, long after the “reason” is forgotten.

8718 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Willow, 5, #83 of 547 🔗

Well put, Willow. Thanks.

8730 ▶▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Willow, 5, #84 of 547 🔗

Well said / written Willow. As I read the comments above I did wonder if it could be a case of this AND that rather an either or scenario.
As it seems to gain traction that Wuhan lab was effectively working on a vaccine, I wondered for/against… what exactly? A naturally occurring virus? Why then alter the virus protein structures so significantly? Or… for or against a bio weapon…?
Remember: problem – reaction – solution, handed down by cooperations and governments. That’s the recipe.
May I again refer to the investigation done by Norman Baker about the 45min dodgy dossier moment and The Strange Death of Dr David Kelly in 2006. There are some really interesting pages in there about bio weapons – who and how many governments possess them or are actively involved in researching / producing / concealing / perfecting them via third parties (ie South Africans, Chinese etc.) Includes the UK, mind you.
There’s no need to be gentle with the government at this point. Of course accidents happen, there is possible evidence that the virus escaped before it was completed as a bio weapon (or vaccine…?) and was thus less lethal than originally thought and thus governments overreacted, at least in part in good faith to protect the people. But above all, we need absolute transparency.
As much as I want this to be over by Xmas, the repercussions will be with us for a long time. The deeper people are asleep the rougher the awakening needs to be. I hope this makes sense and doesn’t sound rude.
Apart from all that I love everything RDwag has posted here and the course of action taken! Hats off, you inspired me greatly…! Thank you!

8732 ▶▶▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Pebbles, 1, #85 of 547 🔗

Note: book published in 2006, he died of course 2003.

8742 ▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Willow, 8, #86 of 547 🔗

Well said Willow. I really want to believe it has all been a dreadful mistake. But over 100 countries- their governments and their advisers and experts- all making the same mistake?

8805 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to RDawg, 6, #87 of 547 🔗

Life has never returned to the old normal post 9/11, and will never return to normal post whatever this is. They’ll give us back something but keep as much as they can get away with.

8834 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to RDawg, 2, #88 of 547 🔗

Well said. What most people forget is that all decision makers politicians, medics and scientists are human beings. They cock up, panic, do the right thing at the wrong time and the wrong thing much of the time. Often for a sincerely held belief. They possess no more intelligence or skill than the average punter. They all suffer from groupthink, bias, irrationality, greed and all the other human traits good and bad. We all do.

They are vulnerable to overreaction fuelled by social and main stream media. They hate to self correct in public. This episode will be written and argued over for decades. The statistics are in such a mess that no amount of scrutiny will bring the wrong to book.

Things will pass and normality will return, this will become a footnote in history (a very expensive one granted).

8631 BB8, replying to BB8, 2, #89 of 547 🔗

Loquacious Orator, ‘Covid Killer’, Dallies Over Wealth of Nation.

8719 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BB8, 2, #90 of 547 🔗

Confused old cow with knife beginning to destroy the world as we know it.

8762 ▶▶▶ BB8, replying to Mark, 2, #91 of 547 🔗

LOCKDOWN

8783 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BB8, 1, #92 of 547 🔗

You win a cookie! A cryptic crossword lover?

8846 ▶▶▶▶▶ BB8, replying to Mark, 2, #93 of 547 🔗

Yes!

8633 nat, replying to nat, 5, #94 of 547 🔗

The Wuhan Institute of Virology theory becomes a lot more interesting when you realise it received
a $3.7million research grant from Dr Fauci’s National Institute of Health in 2017.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211291/U-S-government-gave-3-7million-grant-Wuhan-lab-experimented-coronavirus-source-bats.html

8806 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to nat, 2, #95 of 547 🔗

It all goes back to Gates in the end.

8634 Mark, 5, #96 of 547 🔗

comment image

For further context, here are the UK percentage deaths from the pandemic that year (leaving out the trivial swine flu), rounded to 2 dp

in 2020: 0.06%
1989/90: 0.05%
1968/69: 0.15%
1957/58 0.06%
1918/19 0.46%

And to accompany these figures and the reference to the 1918 experience, I hope Toby won’t mind if I post the following again, contrasting the response of our political and media elites in 1918 with today’s.

The British response to disease – then (1918) and now.

I believe excessive fear has been one of the main roots of our problems with the current covid virus, and in particular the active encouragement of grossly disproportionate fear of this disease, more or less intentionally, by the deeds and words of our government and medical authorities and of our opinion forming media. In many cases, it’s likely they were motivated to do so by an idea that they were doing something responsible, because fear would encourage support for and cooperation with the measures those authorities believed necessary (and that in itself doubtless came back to their own inordinate fear, or in some cases fear of being blamed).

It’s interesting then to consider the following description, from Influenza: The Quest to Cure the Deadliest Disease in History, by Jeremy Brown, of a time when Britain faced a disease far, far more deadly than this one, and with none of the tools and knowledge available to fight it that we have today. I don’t know how accurate the account is, or how much this approach managed in practice to defuse the fear effects of what was, objectively, a disease actually worthy of fear, unlike the current covid illness, but I think it raises an interesting contrast with the modern approach:

**************************************************************************
In Britain, it was [in 1918] very much a “keep calm and carry on” approach. I was born and grew up in London, and even though I have now lived outside of Britain for most of my life, I recognise this reaction. Composure in the face of adversity and keeping a stiff upper lip were hallmarks of my childhood. I had seen such composure on the face of my grandmother as she recalled being evacuated from London during the Blitz, and I recognized it in the reaction to the Spanish Flu a generation before. “Keep calm and carry on” were not just instructions for public behaviour. They were part of the cultural DNA of the British themselves.

At first the newspapers barely mentioned the epidemic; when they did it was buried on the inside pages. The British government and a sympathetic press tacitly agreed to limit any discussion of the flu, lest it demoralize a public already weary of a world war entering its fourth year. The tension between reporting the facts and maintaining morale was embodied in a letter written by a Dr. J. McOscar that was tucked away in the back of the British Medical Journal.

“Are we not now going through enough dark days, with every man, woman or child mourning over some relation?” he wrote. “Would it not be better if a little more prudence were shown in publishing such reports instead of banking up as many dark clouds as possible to upset our breakfasts? Some editors and correspondents seem to be badly needing a holiday, and the sooner they take it the better for the public moral [sic].”

Ironically, there was a detailed five-page report on influenza on the front page of the same issue in which this letter appeared. It underscored just how devastating the pandemic was. There had been a catastrophic outbreak among British and French troops, it noted, that had swept through entire brigades and left them unable to function.

Britain’s chief medical officer also seemed reluctant to upset anyone’s breakfast. His advice was limited: wear small face masks, eat well, and drink a half bottle of light wine. The Royal College of Physicians took a similar approach and announced that the virus was no more deadly than usual. The British seemed relatively unmoved throughout the saga. In December 1918, as the pandemic was ending, the Times of London commented that “never since the Black Death has such a plague swept over the face of the world; never, perhaps, has a plague been more stoically accepted.”

Earlier that year, the medical correspondent for the Times, with what must have been a huge exaggeration, described a people who were “cheerfully anticipating” the arrival of the epidemic. The historian Mark Honigsbaum believes that this British stoicism was deliberately encouraged by the government, which had already worked to cultivate a disdain of the German military enemy. The same disdain was then directed at the influenza outbreak.

But whatever the attitude of the British towards the pandemic, influenza’s toll was enormous. By the time it had subsided, more than a quarter of their population had been infected. Over 225,000 died.

**************************************************************************

Our government and members of the political and media establishments have always sought to manage popular opinion and attitudes “for the greater good”. This basic paternalism can be annoying, but at least when it is directed by grownups with a real understanding of the best interests of a nation, it can be useful. The tragedy of our modern society is that those paternalists have far more persuasive power at their disposal, but are themselves basically infantile in their grasp of the world, dominated by sentimentality and fear. This can be seen in their failure to disdain absurd assertions that “saving lives must be the only consideration”, and their refusal to insist on hard decisions being taken unsentimentally by the leaders responsible for the guidance of the nation. And it can be seen in their cowardly undue fear of a disease that involves objectively very small risks. The generation that led us to war in Europe can be criticised for sure, but they would not have made the disastrous error made by this generation, of turning a minor medical issue into a medical emergency combined with an economic collapse and a social disaster.

The impact of the 1918-19 flu pandemic was very significant. both economically and in long term health effects, but note that in 1918-19 Britain did not suffer notably worse than many of the other countries affected by this disease, one that was far, far more dangerous than covid19. A study looking at excess deaths by country during the 1918-19 pandemic found the following:

“Excess mortality was found to be strongly country dependent. The highest cumulative excess/predicted mortality ratio was observed in Italy (+172%) during the pandemic period (peaked in October 1918), following by Bulgaria and Portugal (+102% each), Spain (+87%), the Netherlands (+84%), Sweden (+74%), Germany (+73%), Switzerland (+69%), France (+66%), Norway (+65%), Denmark (+58%), Scotland (+57%) and England and Wales (+55%), with the lowest ratio being seen in Finland (+33%)(Table 1). The highest excess‐mortality rate (per 10 000 inhabitants) cumulated throughout the entire excess‐mortality period was observed in Portugal (233/10 000 inhabitants), followed by Italy, Spain, Bulgaria, Switzerland, Finland, France, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, Norway, England and Wales, Scotland and Denmark (Figure 2).”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4634693/

8645 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 35, #97 of 547 🔗

From The Telegraph online (updated lead story). A withering criticism of Ferguson. “The model, credited with forcing the Government to make a U-turn and introduce a nationwide lockdown, is a “buggy mess that looks more like a bowl of angel hair pasta than a finely tuned piece of programming”, says David Richards, co-founder of British data technology company WANdisco.

“In our commercial reality, we would fire anyone for developing code like this and any business that relied on it to produce software for sale would likely go bust.”

8665 ▶▶ Willow, replying to Hammer Onats, 3, #98 of 547 🔗

Wow!

8671 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Hammer Onats, 23, #99 of 547 🔗

I still can’t understand why Ferguson was afforded so much influence; almost like a one man band-never a good idea in matters of public health policy surely.

His extremely poor record in predicting the likely fatality rates of previous epidemics are on public record-especially the massive losses incurred by livestock farmers affected by the BSE farrago.

Why on earth did the government appoint him? Will we ever know? I doubt it.

8711 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to wendyk, 5, #100 of 547 🔗

Am sure it was deliberate. Plus I don’t think it’s any coincidence that both the USA and UK are amongst the last(?) Of the Western nations to come out of lockdown… Enough to build up huge evidence of what a disaster lockdown has been throughout the world…

8756 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to ianp, 8, #101 of 547 🔗

What is worrying though, is that if he hadn’t been caught having a humpty dumpty with Ms Avaaz, he might well still be in place.
We can only be thankful that he strayed off piste, as it were.

8808 ▶▶▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to wendyk, 5, #102 of 547 🔗

They used that as an excuse to get rid of him. He was becoming too much of a public meme, and the links between him, the government and the Gates foundation were getting far too much press. They needed a reason to take him out of the public eye, one day of embarrassing stories was worth it for them.

8688 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Hammer Onats, 12, #103 of 547 🔗

Trouble is if I share anything like that all I get is ‘hahahah the Torygraph’ and that’s the end. It’s bloody maddening.

8707 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BecJT, 8, #104 of 547 🔗

“Trust the experts”

Unless they’re conservative, or have said anything vaguely ‘insensitive’ in the past. Then their PhDs and years of experience are worth nothing.

8725 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, 10, #105 of 547 🔗

Stay out of the Guardian – stay sane!

8795 ▶▶▶▶ Scapes, replying to Cheezilla, #106 of 547 🔗

I tried to get involved on the guardian btl this morning. Pointless. The usual replies and then before I could respond comments were closed. Sigh

8738 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BecJT, 10, #107 of 547 🔗

It’s significant that these stories are appearing in the Telegraph though.

Fergie himself published scaremongering stories in the Telegraph in the early days of stoking fear. Then they were the first to hear about his lockdown-flouting peccadilloes. And now we see quite a lot of skeptical stories appearing there.

These days they actually appear to be the Torygraph in the sense of being the channel that the Tory party uses to talk to its core voters.

8743 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to guy153, 10, #108 of 547 🔗

I agree, but what I find so annoying about the woke wars, is how people can dismiss any opinion because they don’t like the ‘source’, I don’t mean really fringe sources like Breitbart, but if something is ‘right wing’ it can be dismissed, cancelled, ignored, without even reading it. The Telegraph might have an editorial position, but this idea that anything in the same publication can be dismissed as junk, really annoys me, when the question people need to ask is ‘is it true?’.

8779 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, #109 of 547 🔗

To an extent it’s human nature and a recognised common fallacy to dismiss info from sources that you don’t like, but the problem is multiplied hugely on the modern political left by the fact that this is the essence of the whole leftist idea of “canceling”, “no platforming”, “hate speech” etc etc.

I’m reminded of the quote in Wednesday’s Lockdownsceptic about hyper-rational;ism and passive avoidance of supposed threat.

8813 ▶▶▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to BecJT, 4, #110 of 547 🔗

You obviously do not see the irony of falling into the same mindset as the people you validly criticise by calling Breitbart ‘a fringe source’.

8744 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Hammer Onats, 18, #111 of 547 🔗

And yet, Boris Johnson is still citing the uttely debunked 500,000 death toll. if the government really wants out of this, could they not, at least as one strand of an exit strategy, set Ferguson up as the fall guy. Sadly, all they do is repeat like automatons that they’re following the science, although that science has shown to be complete and utter nonsense.

8811 ▶▶ A13, replying to Hammer Onats, 3, #112 of 547 🔗

I find it strange that the telegraph has now two similar articles that criticise Ferguson’s modelling on their page; one referencing Wandisco and David Richards, and another one that is co-written by David Richards where he couldn’t resist a little bit of self-promotion.
They could have done a better job and find some other scientists to confirm the story.
Google search for Wandisco will reveal links to older telegraph stories, not so much written about the company in other papers.
It doesn’t help the cause, in my opinion.

8870 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #113 of 547 🔗

The Torygraph is the top sceptical ‘respectable’ paper at the minute. The comments below the line are, furious, to say the least. The Mail and the Sun are still hedging their bets a bit but the ‘tone’ is turning a bit more critical.

8648 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 75, #114 of 547 🔗

Opened my shop for six hours today. Hardly anyone around but … of the people who did venture in, none practiced or asked me to practice social-distancing. Running a coffee shop it is nigh on impossible to implement this rule anyway (one customer even paid with cash!). Everyone was very calm, polite and behaved how they would do in less bonkers times, which is encouraging. Have decided that I will not be availing myself of our Business Improvement District ‘business pack’. I will be treating my customers as adults and not as bodies to be herded. Looking on the bright side, this could be our new USP and if people feel afraid of returning to normal then, judging by my competitors’ angle on this, there will be plenty of alternative establishments to patronise.

8677 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to kh1485, 1, #115 of 547 🔗

Hurray, good for you.

8680 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #116 of 547 🔗

All the best and I’ll be rooting for you!

8696 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #117 of 547 🔗

Thank you. Don’t think it will be easy as I reckon we may face some degree of a backlash, but here’s hoping things get back to some sort of normality!

8780 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to kh1485, 5, #118 of 547 🔗

Hear hear! Yes “normality” – that’s what I want. Not the “new normal”.
Hears hoping

8866 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to James007, 5, #119 of 547 🔗

That’s a LS slogan contender!

NORMALITY
– NOT THE NEW NORMAL

8728 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 3, #120 of 547 🔗

You’ll be an oasis of common sense for your customers.

8734 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #121 of 547 🔗

Either that, or I will be lynched and hounded out of town!

8791 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, #122 of 547 🔗

I suspect that would be an either/or! 🙂

8740 ▶▶ Biker, replying to kh1485, 12, #123 of 547 🔗

i’ve a feeling i’m no where near your shop but if i were i’d ride my motorcycle out your way and stop in for a nice cup of tea. One bonus of this social distancing is how none of the garages ask you to take your helmet off when paying for petrol anymore

8774 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Biker, #124 of 547 🔗

Biker, I think you should do a circuit round Holyrood just to let She Who Must Be Obeyed know exactly what a load of utter damaging tosh all this is.

8909 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to wendyk, 1, #125 of 547 🔗

she’ll be holed up in Bute House living the high life on my tax money

8777 ▶▶ James007, replying to kh1485, 7, #126 of 547 🔗

Very best of luck with your shop. I would absolutely patronise a coffee shops without 2m line markings and with room for a few tables.

My local coffee shop used to be the only place I could get any work done, get away from 2 small children. It’s not much of a sanctuary now.
Hope for things to properly reopen soon. But I dont have any work now anyway.

8797 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 14, #127 of 547 🔗

Thanks everyone for your kind responses. As I’ve said before this site has been a sanity-saver for me. I don’t *do* social media as I can’t stand the vitriol so I’ve surprised myself by the amount of time I’ve spent here. It’s allowed me to vent and to be a bit bonkers and for that, I am really grateful (Thanks Toby). My shop is in North West Essex. Probably not allowed, on here, to say exactly where so I’ll leave it at that!

8809 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to kh1485, 4, #128 of 547 🔗

I’m sure you’re allowed to say, I’d make a point of visiting a like minded soul

8812 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 5, #129 of 547 🔗

On the contrary, Toby has a whole section of the site specifically for advertising businesses that are open. You could add your own business there, or give the details here. I would definitely drop in to spend some money in your coffee shop if I were in the area (but I’m nowhere near Essex).

The only reason not to give your details would be if you were concerned about some idiots getting hold of it and causing trouble for you.

8836 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 1, #130 of 547 🔗

Good for you,I hope as many people as possible will support you,I would if I wasn’t over 100 miles away !.I’m desperately hoping one of the small cafes here is going to open and treat customers normally but unfortunately I don’t think it is going to happen if the bizarre system our local fish and chip shop has implemented after recently re-opening is anything to go by.

8884 ▶▶▶ IanStaffs, replying to Paul, 1, #131 of 547 🔗

Briefly, what is the bizarre system?

8649 A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, 29, #132 of 547 🔗

Just wanted to make it clear that the uk governments, the public health bodies and the sainted NHS are responsible for the genocide of thousands of people in our care homes. It is nothing short of a national disgrace.

A HUG IS HEALTH

8691 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, 39, #133 of 547 🔗

Totally agree, and those people died without their loved ones, without a doctor (GPs instructed not to attend), with no pallation, no IV fluids, no syringe drivers, no morphine, and nobody holding their hand. Most of them had advanced dementia and would have been very distressed, probably for weeks, and given most of them had been locked in their rooms alone to keep them ‘safe’, so probably had the shittiest death imaginable.

And this is why I’ve not once stood in the street and clapped. B@stards.

8787 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to BecJT, 6, #134 of 547 🔗

This is appalling. To be treated this way, and then to have the indignity of a socially distanced funeral, with strict restrictions on who is allowed to attend due to space limitations.
Yes no clapping for me. I only did it on the first week.

8729 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, 1, #135 of 547 🔗

Great slogan!

8745 ▶▶ paulito, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, 9, #136 of 547 🔗

The Word genocide has appeared a few time in comments in the Spanish El Mundo paper. That’s exactly what it is.

8662 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 50, #137 of 547 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S8Js-tEmlg&list=WL&index=9

David Starkey fighting the good fight.

“The decisions that were taken were as follows- and they were taken to PROTECT THE FACE OF THE NHS AT ALL COSTS.

1) You stop all forms of surgery and diagnostic testing completely. Cancer, heart disease – the lot. The National Health Service becomes the National Covid Service.
2) You clear every bed that you can. This is when the patients, so-called ‘bed blockers’, get sent back to care homes.
3) You shut down all private medicine – and you do a deal to use their resources for Covid only.

The result of this is that Britain is spared that humiliation – we did not have the scenes they had in Italy or Spain. But- there is a terrible price to pay, because there’s the deaths of the people that should have been treated. Or are terrified to go to hospital for other things and are therefore dying in droves.
As the deaths go down in hospitals, they go up in care homes. Why were we so cavalier about care homes? BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT PART OF THE NHS. They’re not covered by that magic label.

That joke about the NHS being the nearest thing to a national religion has actually come true. The NHS behaved exactly as the Catholic Church did under the threat of child abuse – IT TRIED TO PROTECT THE INSTITUTION, NOT THE PATIENT.”

8679 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Farinances, 18, #138 of 547 🔗

He’s absolutely right though. I remember listening to Toby Young and James Delingpole’s ‘London Calling’ podcast a short while back where they discussed why Dominic Cummings, puppet master of the government, made such a u-turn in March when he went from herd immunity to lockdown. They reckoned that Cummings’ main talent is being very in tune with the public mood, and he foresaw that the NHS is so umbilically linked with British pride and what it means to be British, that when (or if) NHS hospitals became overwhelmed, pictures of it would be splashed all over the papers and the government would be completely eviscerated. Because the NHS is basically a national religion, it would be tantamount to blasphemy. And therein lies the explanation for the so poorly conceived care home policy.

8690 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Poppy, 34, #139 of 547 🔗

“They reckoned that Cummings’ main talent is being very in tune with the public mood, and he foresaw that the NHS is so umbilically linked with British pride and what it means to be British, that when (or if) NHS hospitals became overwhelmed, pictures of it would be splashed all over the papers and the government would be completely eviscerated. ”

I think that’s a pretty plausible theory.

It’s also rank cowardice and dereliction of duty on the part of the government and of Johnson in particular. Following pubic opinion is fine on minor, day to day stuff, but on an issue like this when there are really significant costs to the nation, the PM is required to show leadership, not spineless populism.

8698 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Mark, 4, #140 of 547 🔗

“Pubic” opinion indeed 🙂

8704 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #141 of 547 🔗

Doh!

8737 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Simon Dutton, 27, #142 of 547 🔗

You know, the more I think about that scenario the angrier I get about the sheer moral failure of a government up to its neck in “opinion management”, “nudging”, and “A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened…..Use media to increase sense of personal threat” as the Sage advice put it, refusing to stand up to pubic opinion when its negligence is costing us so much.

8793 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, #143 of 547 🔗

Freud obviously getting at you today (see last sentence), again!

8818 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to IanE, #144 of 547 🔗

Damn! Wasn’t even aware that kind of thing was on my mind….

(I do struggle with “light finger typing”, and rely on the spellchecker rather too much. No use when the mistake makes an actual word,)

8746 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Poppy, 6, #145 of 547 🔗

Don’t forget that in the run-up to the election, the media was full of pictures of NHS corridors overflowing with patients on trolleys waiting for beds. And that was before the child with pneumonia who spent the night on the floor in A&E. Boris took the reporter’s phone rather than comment on the situation. No wonder he was scared of a repeat!

8794 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Cheezilla, #146 of 547 🔗

And the sheeple are still saying that Boris is becoming Churchill!

8726 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Farinances, 14, #147 of 547 🔗

Great stuff. Been to one of his talks and he is brilliant (check out his appearance on a ‘trial’ of Richard III in the early eighties …). He would be one of the panellists on my ‘Fantasy Question Time’, the others being Peter Hitchens, David Davis, Rod Liddle and, Laurence Fox.

8731 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 3, #148 of 547 🔗

What a show that would be! The BBC nabobs would be apoplectic if that one somehow slipped by…..

8733 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 2, #149 of 547 🔗

I know. I once asked a question on QT and was completely pilloried by the panel who, if I recall, included Caroline Lucas, Armando Iannucci, John Redwood – not that I’m bitter of course!

8753 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 6, #150 of 547 🔗

The dream team, although i would want Douglas Murray and Lionel Shriver as well

8759 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 1, #151 of 547 🔗

Oh yes. And perhaps Frederick Forsyth …

9047 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 2, #152 of 547 🔗

I’d add Brendan O’Neill too.

8664 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #153 of 547 🔗

From the EU Ref link:
“By any measure, therefore, Hancock told an egregious, unconscionable and deliberate lie yesterday, when he addressed the press conference – a lie of staggering proportions.”

Unfortunately, the glimmer of hope for mainstream journalism was instantly dashed:

“And yet, what did our brilliant legacy media do? Well, the Telegraph, which originally published the links to the “damning” official documents – behaving for a short while like an actual newspaper, has chosen not to notice the lie.”

8669 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, #154 of 547 🔗

What was the lie?

8678 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 3, #155 of 547 🔗

Ok read it. Yeah. Absolutely bald-faced that one.

8666 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 11, #156 of 547 🔗

The sooner an independent national enquiry in Britain is held into Covid 19 deaths the better.

England, unusually in Europe (at least), has a major spike in excess deaths over the last few weeks for age group 15-64. That seems unlikely to have been caused by Covid 19.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

An article in the British Medical Journal indicates what may be the cause, government hospital clearances of the long term infirm to make way for Covid 19 patients that never turned up.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1931

Why did the Covid 19 patients never turn up? The latest pre print pre review science seems to indicate that, through cross immunity from other common cold coronaviruses, much of the population may be immune to Covid 19.

”Importantly, we detected SARS-CoV-2−reactive CD4+ T cells in ~40-60% of unexposed individuals, suggesting cross-reactive T cell recognition between circulating ‘common cold’ coronaviruses and SARS-CoV-2.’

https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30610-3.pdf

Non Covid 19 excess deaths in recent weeks are unlikely to have been confined to Britain.

‘An Italian study appeared to show that, in some regions of the country,the total death count was up as much as sixfold from previous years. Those deaths officially attributed to the coronavirus accounted for barely a quarter of the increase.

In Spain, El País obtained a study that showed mortality rates in some regions had almost doubled, with only a fraction of the increase officially attributed to COVID-19’

http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/collateral_judgement.html

‘On March 14, US Surgeon General Jerome Adams tweeted that hospitals and healthcare systems should consider stopping elective procedures amid the COVID-19 outbreak. On March 18, the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) also released guidance to limit “non-essential adult elective surgery and medical and surgical procedures’

https://www.ascassociation.org/asca/resourcecenter/latestnewsresourcecenter/covid-19/covid-19-state

It also seems unlikely that U.S. figures for Covid 19 deaths are particularly accurate and include many non Covid 19 deaths:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5f_6ltv7oI

So not only is the 306,000 figure of global Covid 19 mortality unlikely to be at all accurate but, worse, whatever the correct figure is, it will be much smaller than collateral mortality from too extreme measures taken in panic to protect against a minor common cold coronavirus epidemic to which many people are most likely already immune.

8769 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tim Bidie, 9, #157 of 547 🔗

It’s literally gonna kill millions of people.

The lockdown. NOT COVID.

8810 ▶▶ JH, replying to Tim Bidie, -3, #158 of 547 🔗

Worth noting that in those areas of France and Italy that were locked down but did not see serious Covid-19 outbreaks, there was no spike in excess deaths (eg Rome has actually seen negative excess deaths).

Most likely therefore that where there were excess deaths not attributed to Covid-19, the predominant part of this may be due to under-attribution, rather than non-Covid effects of lockdown.

8827 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to JH, 2, #159 of 547 🔗

Much more likely it is the other way around. Covid 19 deaths are being overestimated.

England is the only country in Europe to have a spike of excess deaths aged 15-64, atypical for Covid 19

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

For Italy, Dr. Walter Ricciardi, the scientific adviser to Italy’s health minister, said that only 12 percent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus.

In Britain, for March/April 2020 ONS says 95% direct causality.

‘There were 33,841 deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19) that occurred between 1 March and 30 April 2020 registered up to 5 May 2020 in England and Wales; of these, 32,143 (95.0%) had COVID-19 assigned as the underlying cause of death.’

‘Of the 33,841 deaths that occurred in March and April 2020 involving COVID-19 in England and Wales, 30,577 (90.4%) had at least one pre-existing condition, while 3,264 (9.6%) had none. The mean number of pre-existing conditions for deaths involving COVID-19 in March and April 2020 was 2.3.’

‘The most common main pre-existing condition in England and Wales was Dementia and Alzheimer disease, with 6,887 deaths (20.4% of all deaths involving COVID-19).’

Hmmmm………

8849 ▶▶▶▶ JH, replying to Tim Bidie, #160 of 547 🔗

That 95% given is of deaths involving Covid, not of all deaths that occurred. So your numbers are not comparing like for like.

Yes, there will have been a degree of ‘harvesting’ of people that were very ill already. But most people with pre-existing conditions are /not/ at death’s door. Case in point: near the start of the outbreak an acquaintance died who had MS. But he’d had it for 30 years. Walked around on crutches, but otherwise incredibly vigorous. Had founded his own business, then a charity to promote and coordinate volunteering. Still had a huge amount left to give.

8865 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JH, #161 of 547 🔗

But surely the people like your friend are far outnumbered by very old people who are…. to put it bluntly…. living in care homes and on their last legs?

8883 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JH, replying to Farinances, -2, #162 of 547 🔗

No: most people with pre-existing conditions are /not/ at death’s door. And that is also true of people dying of the virus.

cf:
Daily Telegraph, 23 April 2020, “Coronavirus cutting more than a decade off victims’ lives, scientists say” https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/23/coronavirus-cutting-decade-victims-lives-scientists-say/

Economist, 2 May 2020, “Would most covid-19 victims have died soon, without the virus? A new study suggests not” https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/05/02/would-most-covid-19-victims-have-died-soon-without-the-virus

8908 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JH, 3, #163 of 547 🔗

Care home death figures say otherwise.

8928 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to JH, 1, #164 of 547 🔗

Slightly misses the point.

England, unusually in Europe (at least), has a major spike in excess deaths over the last few weeks for age group 15-64. That seems unlikely to have been caused by Covid 19.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

An article in the British Medical Journal indicates what may be the cause, government hospital clearances of the long term infirm to make way for Covid 19 patients that never turned up.

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1931

So thousands of people already in hospital were discharged and may very well have died as a consequence of that; nothing to do with Covid 19.

Meanwhile, the beds emptied to make space for Covid 19 patients remained empty.

And Covid 19 mortality has been overstated.

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1013854/3675205-episode-4-dr-john-lee-part-1?client_source=twitter_card&player_type=full_screen

8925 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to JH, 3, #165 of 547 🔗

Nope:

‘Prof Ricciardi added that Italy’s death rate may appear higher because of how doctors record fatalities.

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus.

“On re-evaluation by the National Institute of Health, only 12% of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus, while 88 per cent of patients who have died have at least one pre-morbidity – many had two or three,” he says.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120443722/coronavirus-is-covid19-really-the-cause-of-all-the-fatalities-in-italy

Here is a podcast from a very experienced NHS pathologist explaining just how imprecise the recording of Covid 19 deaths is in England:

https://www.buzzsprout.com/1013854/3675205-episode-4-dr-john-lee-part-1?client_source=twitter_card&player_type=full_screen

Regarding your other point, it has been well known for some time that the common cold is a great deal more dangerous to the elderly and infirm than influenza.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5343795/

If you want to suggest that we have not done enough in Britain to protect the most vulnerable, that is also one of the points that I am making and one that the legendary Anders Tegnell in Sweden has made about their own response:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/12/sweden-boosts-elderly-care-spending-as-coronavirus-death-toll-rises.html

9206 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tim Bidie, #166 of 547 🔗

Thanks for this and all the links.

8667 G Dill, replying to G Dill, 9, #167 of 547 🔗

Funny comic spoofing the religious fanaticism of lockdown: https://friedavizel.com/2020/05/16/presenting-ultra-unorthodox-an-illustrated-story/

8673 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to G Dill, #168 of 547 🔗

It’s really good!

8752 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to G Dill, #169 of 547 🔗

Brilliant!

8776 ▶▶ A13, replying to G Dill, #170 of 547 🔗

– „What’s in the sandwich?”
– „Germs”

This one is cracking me up!
If i worked in a cafe i’d be saying that to all customers wearing face masks and gloves!

8670 bluefreddy, replying to bluefreddy, 22, #171 of 547 🔗

My husband and I spent about two hours at the Hyde Park gathering today. We reckon that there were about a thousand people there – though people came and went over the two hours, and there were a lot of journalists and passers by. There was no evidence of the far right, but a number of anti-vaxxers and anti Bill Gatesers. The majority of people wanted to protest the loss of their freedoms and the ridiculousness of the lockdown rules.

There was no organisation to it: there was a man who was ranting loudly who was the first to be arrested and who may have been the prime mover,

The police presence was way over the top. They had no masks or gloves, and did no social distancing whatsoever: not only did they huddle together, but they constantly got unnecessarily close to protesters. Clearly they have zero fear of catching or spreading covid-19.

At about 12.20, they started telling people they were going to issue fines and arrest people: and that’s what they did.

For most people, it was a chance to talk to like minded people and exchange information. I’m glad I went. And it was great to be in a crowd.

Someone has posted a 45 minute video of the protest, so you can see for yourselves what it was like:

https://www.facebook.com/RTnews/videos/anti-lockdown-protest-in-londons-hyde-park/536002413975661/

8676 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to bluefreddy, 2, #172 of 547 🔗

Thanks for the vid I’ve been looking for footage! I’ve just left Leeds, absolute crickets there lol

8754 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to bluefreddy, 6, #173 of 547 🔗

Thanks for posting. Uplifting viewing.

Telling exchange from protester to out-of-depth policewomen:
“We pay your wages. We haven’t been paid for two months!”

The police didn’t seem too concerned about social distancing – presumably till commanded otherwise from above.

8945 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #174 of 547 🔗

The comment feed below the video is truly worrying though with a plethora of comments including the obligatory Darwin Awards. They have been utterly brainwashed and not questioned this for one second, living in internal fear that there is a world ending virus rampaging the world. Truly makes me sad.

9075 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sarigan, 1, #175 of 547 🔗

The correct use of the Darwin award example would actually be someone who has a heart attack yet refuses to phone an ambulance because of covid
And even that is kinda understandable given the psychological assault we’ve all been under

8672 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 36, #176 of 547 🔗

Spring is my favourite season and today I realised just how much I have missed this year. Drove my mother (92) four miles from home to a local wildlife reserve (woodland, a loch, grassland and moorland, with interesting flora and fauna: “Scotland in Miniature”, as the blurb states) run by the Scottish Wildlife Trust (a charity). It was her first trip out since March 23rd, apart from local walks from home. We (or rather I, as Mum fortunately didn’t notice them) ignored (smallish) signs on wooden posts at the entrance to the extensive path network counselling us to please not visit the reserve “to avoid transmitting Covid 19”. There were at least another 6 cars parked at the entrance, so I knew that other visitors had ignored the signs and had entered the reserve. We walked for about an hour and a half, enjoying the sunshine, pleasant breeze, the gentle air, birdsong and wildlife activity on the loch. In that time, we passed two couples (with dogs) and a family group including three children, exchanging pleasantries and giving each other plenty of space to pass. No risk of infection transmission! On the drive home, I noticed how the lambs in the fields are already quite big, and that we have missed seeing the new-born lambs this year.

8755 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, 2, #177 of 547 🔗

Sounds like a lovely day out. Lucky mum!

8829 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Gillian, 2, #178 of 547 🔗

Your mum might like this (you too) – live stream of the peregrine falcons nesting on top of the tower of Cromer Church.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iVLvzO5Cso

It’s nature red in tooth and claw, mind, at feeding time.

8841 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Gillian, 4, #179 of 547 🔗

Ah bless!

I’ve mostly been limiting myself to local places, but we have a river with water voles and numerous birds and flowers where I’ve been walking a lot and distantly meeting many other folks. I need to drag myself to somewhere that has nightingales while they are still singing.

My mother loved that kind of thing, I’m glad she died and didn’t have to go through this.

8674 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 11, #180 of 547 🔗

Very interesting the comment of the architect in today’s news from Toby. He was involved in Porton Down refurbishment and leaking pipes was the scandal. The Wuhan lab was copied from France but obviously they did not have time to copy the pipes correctly. China is not often associated with quality products and defect drainage would not be a surprise.
I have always been intrigued how quickly Trump shut down the country and followed the lockdown zealots and Dr Fauci. It seems reasonable that an early stage, the CIA found out about a mishap this autumn in Wuhan. Initially they could have suspected a biological attack but found out finally only a mishap, the usual incompetence and then the frenetic cover up by China. Now US has a problem how to use this information. They can use it in the usual China bashing way but not really fully reveal the secret.
Because the US would have been one part in the mayhem at the Wuhan lab. The corona virus research was outsourced by the US to Wuhan in China. Indeed, Dr Fauci himself sent illegal money for their research and had high expectations of vaccine development which was the intended purpose. The intelligence services have a great influence on the MSM and BBC. Both US and the UK governments now know what a big mistake the lockdown has been as this was not the killer flu and not a biological attack but outsourced research to incompetent people behind it. The only fig leaf for the lockdown is to inflate the death figures in both countries. MSM and BBC have been instructed to continue the global fear story and discredit any information relating to Wuhan Lab and promoting the idea of a usual animal to human jump of the virus.

8675 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, 1, #181 of 547 🔗

This. It’s scientific negligence on a massive scale, in a myriad of different ways- plus governmental negligence. That lab HAS to have something to do with it, it just has to.

8757 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #182 of 547 🔗

Evidence has been pointing that way for a few weeks now.

8767 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, #183 of 547 🔗

Not according to MSM :/ Although, the Mail has been plugging away at this I think (because they hate China)

9022 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to swedenborg, 1, #184 of 547 🔗

Same claim about Fort Derrick Maryland last year and was the reason that the military gave the BioLab there a “cease and desist” order last August (I think) and shut that part of the lab down permanent ly as there were “security problems” earlier on in the year. Some claim it was a problem with the waste system after a refit, others that China had stolen or been given the 5 strains of coronavirus they were working on which also tallies up to the arrests last year or so of Chinese scientists being found trying to take 41 vials of genetic material out of the USa nd Canada, a plane tracked taking some genetic material from the US to Wuhan on a Turkish whistleblower site and a Harvard professor being taken away in handcuffs and charged (documented on department of justice website in Dec) as he was heavily funded by Wuhan lab and lied about it.

1st cases of coronavirus linked to the vaping deaths in the US, symptoms identical check them, then in Seattle where the soldiers who were going to the Wuhan Games transitted through then onto Hawaii, the first case in Japan linked to someone who had been in Hawaii on holiday when the troops transited through.

Corroborated by a Taiwanese TV broadcast showing how they tracked covid-19 transmission and they categorically stated it originated from the USA. It is one of those videos that keeps disappearing, there was even one with an English translation even though the screens were very easy to understand. If I find it I’ll post it.

Amazing what you dig up when looking in the dark corners of independent media and research.

9025 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to swedenborg, 1, #185 of 547 🔗

Interesting connection:

Gilled was an investor/partner in China with a company Wuxi. they have labs in various places in China including one last year next door to the wet market in Wuhan.

Guess the 2 names who were heavy investors in both Gilead and Wuxi?

Gates and Soros.

9098 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to swedenborg, 1, #186 of 547 🔗

The ‘mishap’ may have in summer 2019 in the US (Fort Detrick lab):

https://ahtribune.com/world/covid-19/4152-american-genie.html

Fauci’s involvement with ‘Gain of Function’ research is well-documented elsewhere.

8681 Hoppy Uniatz, 3, #187 of 547 🔗

I met a friend today for the first time in 2 months and we both spontaneously started singing a song which I suggest here as yet another possible theme tune for this site. Cole Porter’s “Where Is The Life That Late I Led.”

8686 Bart Simpson, 16, #188 of 547 🔗

Many thanks again to Toby for this blog and today’s entry. I have to say that my mood has considerably improved since I found this site. I have boycotted the MSM for years now and nowadays I simply read this site, The Spectator and follow Professor Sikora on Twitter.

Well done for further highlighting the mental health effects of this lockdown and it despairs me that no-one I know has never acknowledged this but are happy to share the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge’s mental health campaign and has not joined the dots of how this prolonged lockdown is taking a toll on people mentally and psychologically. I won’t be surprised if we go in the way of Japan in terms of suicides if we haven’t already.

On a lighter note, I have been listening to a lot of Gilbert and Sullivan lately and I was wondering if we sceptics can write our own version of “I’ve Got a Little List” from The Mikado. Definitely there will be many on that list!

8692 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella Donna, #190 of 547 🔗

LOL! Good one Hannan!

8701 Cheezilla, 3, #191 of 547 🔗

It occurred to me that 50 years ago, people would have been afraid to use the pool noodle hats for fear of catching headlice.

8702 Biker, replying to Biker, 43, #192 of 547 🔗

I’ve worked like normal all the time while these leeches sit on their arse expecting me to work keeping the supermarket open. Will i get a big bonus, will i get three months off to sit in my garden and get pissed on almost full pay when this is over? Will i hell. The company i work for will have made more money than normal and me i’ll be just as poor as i was before this began. No one cares about me so i don’t care about them. I’m out riding my motorcycle when and where i like and if you don’t like that mr government paid enforcer you can suck my exhaust. Get yourselves to all the places you want tomorrow and if you encounter any state bother, smile, tell them you’re not interested in what they say, take their fine don’t pay it and make a bloody stand. If one thing this whole debacle has shown is we need to vastly reduce government very very quickly and i hope someone like Farage starts a libertarian Party and he sweeps to power promising to dismantle the government.

8713 ▶▶ Adele Bull, replying to Biker, 3, #193 of 547 🔗

Good for you!

8751 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Biker, 2, #194 of 547 🔗

I care about you and people like you, and agree (apart from the Farage bit 🙂 )

8770 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 2, #195 of 547 🔗

Me too. Would you agree to Claire Fox instead of Farage – I would?

8785 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 14, #196 of 547 🔗

Like him or loathe him (and personally I like him) you can’t deny that Nigel Farage has been the most effective politician of recent times. If it weren’t for him there would have been no referendum and no Brexit. The man has guts and for those of us who feel left behind, he has been an inspiration.

8807 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to kh1485, 2, #197 of 547 🔗

I don’t disagree with you. I also think he is the most impressive politician of our era. This is because he really believes and means what he says about Brexit, and has spent his entire life dedicating himself to it. He cuts across the class divide in provincial cities like the one I hail from. I am not convinced how many of the current crop of politicians (in any party) believe in anything – they are shallow and lacking in backbone. That said, I know several women who would class themselves as Thatcherite and Brexiters who have a certain reservation about Farage – in much the same way as they do of Trump.

8764 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Biker, 10, #198 of 547 🔗

I agree. I consider myself a Libertarian – always agree with Claire Fox, Brendan O’Neill here, and Ron Paul in the US. The Conservative party at the moment, with some notable exceptions, looks and sounds like an extension of the Fabians. Listening to Mr Williamson at the press conference earlier was one of the most scary encounters on TV since – well Mr Sharma a few days ago. Is this really what this country has come to in terms of the quality of those running the show?

8778 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Biker, 2, #199 of 547 🔗

As a fellow biker I fully endorse your view. It’s time this debacle was put to bed for good.

8705 grammarschoolman, replying to grammarschoolman, 9, #200 of 547 🔗

‘Particularly prevalent are 18-25 year-old men with no previous history of mental illness.’

Precisely the ones who’d have spent every Saturday at the football.

8712 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to grammarschoolman, #201 of 547 🔗

Hahahahahaha!

8741 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Farinances, 4, #202 of 547 🔗

Well, I was making a serious point about how people’s mood can get low if what they love is taken away from them, but each to his own, I suppose.

8763 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to grammarschoolman, #203 of 547 🔗

I know you were, but the blunt way you put it was also kinda amusing.

8837 ▶▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Farinances, 1, #204 of 547 🔗

Terse, not blunt.

8864 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to grammarschoolman, 1, #205 of 547 🔗

True. Either way, you have a way with words.

8856 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 3, #206 of 547 🔗

My first reaction was to laugh too, because football matches are such a hotbed of testosterone-driven tribalism. However, it’s important for testosterone-driven tribalism to have a safe outlet, so it’s definitely a serious point.

8750 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to grammarschoolman, 4, #207 of 547 🔗

It’s really sad, what we’re doing to people. Domestic violence murder is also a disgrace (so, not feeling too sorry for men). Isolation is really, really, really bad for humans (as is forced proximity in some cases).

8814 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to BecJT, 9, #208 of 547 🔗

Seem a bit harsh to group all men together with the domestic violence murderer types. Some of us are quite pleasant.

8826 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to South Coast Worker, 4, #209 of 547 🔗

Yes and there are some vicious women out there too. My ex d-i-l for one!

8844 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Margaret, 3, #210 of 547 🔗

My X-wife for two

8851 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to South Coast Worker, 3, #211 of 547 🔗

Most of us in fact.

8900 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to South Coast Worker, #212 of 547 🔗

I didn’t, just not playing a violin for poor men either.

8850 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to BecJT, 9, #213 of 547 🔗

Blimey. I’ve generally enjoyed your contributions but that sounded a sour note.

I’ve seen you write a few times about rebuilding your views from the ground up. It struck a chord with me because as my leftie friends have gone off into lala land I find myself questioning more and more left wing shibboleths I once held dear. One of those was the idea that women were generally more disadvantaged and were the sole victims of domestic violence. How the scales fell from my eyes when I encountered the views of Erin Pizzey (the woman who started the original refuge in Chiswick). She shows convincingly how viewing the problem of DV through the feminist lens has skewed our responses to it and led to ignoring around 40% of the victims who happen to men. I’ll stop here. When a particular view of something is deeply entrenched and you genuinely want to look at the evidence or attain a more nuanced view, I think it’s something you have to root out for yourself.

Written with the best intentions and best wishes.

8901 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Jonathan Smith, -1, #214 of 547 🔗

I’ve worked in domestic violence, and Im not going to waste my time replying to that, I’m afraid. Google ‘the reporting cap’ and then google Pat Craven’s living with the dominator, when you’ve read that, comment again. Most male victims, the perp is also male (either gay, or a jealous ex).

9248 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to BecJT, #215 of 547 🔗

Er, not necessarily (and of course no-one knows the real numbers because of non-reporting and disbelief.

My ex was a very sweet wife three weeks out of every month, then it was like a switch being flipped. Imagine PMS with a turbocharger – she had a LOT of symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder – then the switch flipped back again and she was back to normal.

A friend had a similar girlfriend. He smashed up his leg in a freak accident and had it pinned in a frame. She lost her rag and JUMPED on his broken leg, causing permanent damage.

Sorry but it does happen.

It opened my eyes to psychobabble vs. chemistry. Think about the cline from male behaviour – macho behaviour – narcissism – psychopathy in one direction, and female behaviour – PMS – Borderline in the other, something causes an overreaction to “normal” hormones. Blame the mother doesn’t cut it, sorry.

8902 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Jonathan Smith, -1, #216 of 547 🔗

‘genuinely want to look at the evidence’ – I HAVE genuinely looked at the evidence, which is why I have the views I do. The left are disgrace on misogyny, hence me reviewing my views.

8903 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, #217 of 547 🔗

*political views.

9087 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to grammarschoolman, #218 of 547 🔗

Now now, footie knows no age barriers !

8706 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #219 of 547 🔗

on reading that the demonstrations today were to take the form of a picnic reminded me of that Harvest records sampler released in 1970- “Picnic- A breath of fresh air” the cover depicting a family on a beach wearing gas masks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picnic_%E2%80%93_A_Breath_of_Fresh_Air

8766 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #220 of 547 🔗

That’s brilliantly apposite.

8736 steve, replying to steve, 9, #221 of 547 🔗

Here is how the uk racked up 000s of “died WITH Cv” statistics

This is a beauty.

Read the headline and how many time Coronavirus or Covid is mentioned before he was being “treated” for dissecting aoritic annurism

i.e his major artery from his heart burst. FFS

Must have been the cough that finished him off.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52686325

8749 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to steve, 1, #222 of 547 🔗

Not the coffin they carried him off in.

8739 Paul Seale, replying to Paul Seale, 34, #223 of 547 🔗

My daughter, wife and I have been to see my parents today. I shall be 40 in a few hours time and have had little meaningful communication with the outside world for 2 months. Enough was enough

“In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem”

I miss Ronald and Maggie.

8748 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Paul Seale, 21, #224 of 547 🔗

Off to see my brother, wife and kids shortly, I shall have a dozen fresh eggs in the car just in case anyone asks (and I can throw them out the window at anyone wearing a mask on my way there).

8854 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, 2, #225 of 547 🔗

Pity you haven’t any old eggs hanging around ….

8747 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 13, #226 of 547 🔗

Have we seen this awful video of a man hugging his mum through a shower curtain contraption with veterinary rectal examination gloves that’s doing the round? People are putting little heart emojis all over it, it just makes me want to weep with sadness, and then smash something that we are doing something so insane and inhumane to people. Just hug your bloody mum! I appreciate the man just wanted to hug his mum, but it’s crazy.

https://www.facebook.com/miriam.butt.92/videos/10163787073690551/

8765 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 10, #227 of 547 🔗

Agree BecJT. If my mum were still here, I wouldn’t have allowed anyone to tell me not to hug her …

8773 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 7, #228 of 547 🔗

Hugs are good for us, our nervous system needs them, floods us with oxytocin, the bonding hormone. Nobody should be able to tell us not to do it, it’s like those poor Romanian orphanage babies that died, because nobody touched them!

8853 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, 3, #229 of 547 🔗

Hey I was thinking of those when I saw that scary pic of the French school “playtime”.

8775 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 8, #230 of 547 🔗

PS sorry about your mum, I really feel for those people who have lost their mums through this and couldn’t be with them. Friend of the family lost his dad to prostate cancer two weeks ago, he’d been ill for a long time. Care home said they’d call so one person could go for an hour ‘near the end’ and they missed it, and he died, all alone. Makes me so angry.

8789 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 7, #231 of 547 🔗

Thanks BecJT. Sadly, there’s an awful lot of other stuff I have had to contend with which is why I bang on about BigPharma. I just can’t understand the mind-set of people who would deny their closest relative comfort. And what I witnessed in hospital and afterwards will stay with me forever which is why I will never, ever clap the NHS. I know not all NHS staff are b^&st$£rds but some are … sorry, it’s difficult.

8801 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 7, #232 of 547 🔗

I have tangled with them also, and I’m not clapping them either and I’ve heard enough tales now from other patients like me, to know it’s impossible to hold them accountable. It’s an unwieldy and subpar organisation and needs massive reform, and quite contentedly blames the patient and lies when it suits them.

8819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to BecJT, 8, #233 of 547 🔗

I agree, sadly. The way that my late sister and my late mother were treated by the NHS was nothing short of scandalous. I appreciate there are some very kind doctors and nurses (I personally know a few) but the machine itself is a complete nonsense. A huge waste of money, resources and badly managed.

8905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #234 of 547 🔗

I’m sorry to hear that, and I wish I could say what you’re saying is rare, but it isn’t. I mean, for heaven’s sake, this is the institution that came up with the Liverpool Care Pathway. I agree there are some wonderful doctors, one or two of them saved my life, but when I requested my notes from my GP, OMG the lies! I had a friend who consented to a gynae op, fairly routine, but declined a risky part of the procedure. They did it anyway, utterly mutilated her, and rendered incapable of having a sex life in her 30s. When she tried to sue, she found someone had put in her notes ‘hysterical amnesia’, and said that she had consented, but she was just too much of a nutter to have remembered. That kind of thing is incredibly common. And all this bleating about evidence based medicine, treatment pathways (many of which are barbaric) are not based on evidence but medical ‘consensus’ – consensus can be bought, obviously.

9004 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 1, #235 of 547 🔗

Dear CarrieAH & BecJT, I’m so very sorry to hear of your experiences. Yes, end of life care is horrific, especially the removal of essential humanity. I mean, the language is just so cold: “treatment pathway” … I wish there was another platform on which to discuss this.

8839 ▶▶ paulito, replying to BecJT, 5, #236 of 547 🔗

Went to see the mother in law today for the first time since the 15th of March. She’s in her 70s and has some health problems so we weren’t sure how it would go. My wife asked her hug or no hug but and after a few seconsd told her better not eh. It was obvious her first instinct was to give her a hug but fear got the better of her. It doesn’t help that the media is full of reuniting families dutifully socially distancing.

9097 ▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to paulito, #237 of 547 🔗

A HUG IS HEALTH. GIVE ONE WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

8852 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, #238 of 547 🔗

The daftest bit is when he declares it’s ready for the next person – but they hadn’t been wearing masks. Defeats the object!

8904 ▶▶ A13, replying to BecJT, 3, #239 of 547 🔗

It reminds me of that full-body condom scene from “Naked Gun”
https://vimeo.com/256669704

8760 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 6, #240 of 547 🔗

Well, well according to YouGov there is a very clear left right split, and shockingly only 29% of Labour voters want people to go back to work, only half of them want garden centres to open, and they are really annoyed about Golf! https://twitter.com/DJack_Journo/status/1261626746220265472

8788 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to BecJT, 8, #241 of 547 🔗

:o(

My dad went out golfing thursday. He gives no fucks. Actually I think my parents could be representative of quite a lot of people actually- the Comfortably Unbothered. They’re willing to take on most of the social conditioning crap as long as it doesn’t affect their existence too much. Cancelled holidays, no restaurant meals, no golf etc. are irritating but not irritating enough. Yet.

8802 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Farinances, 6, #242 of 547 🔗

Same with mine, my dad misses his friends but they’ve started going and visiting and sitting in friends’ gardens or dropping things off or picking them up, ‘just off to borrow John’s hedge clippers’ and off they go!

8835 ▶▶ paulito, replying to BecJT, 6, #243 of 547 🔗

It’s well known that golfers are a bunch of poshos who are trying to kill people. This is basically how a Spanish Government spokesman dismissed the protests in the Barrio de Salamanca in Madrid.

8772 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #244 of 547 🔗

https://twitter.com/gummibear737/status/1261068858204577793/photo/1
Figures from Spain based on 60 K serological tests nationwide calculated IFR
Country wide IFR 0.734%
IFR under 60 0.052%
IFR under 70 0.122%
IFR over 70 3.595 %
29 deaths under 30 that would be a low figure compared to a severe influenza strain let alone would have happened in a new influenza strain.
Interestingly yesterday I wrongly reported that the CFR in Spain was 0,13 % and I was pleased it was spotted and corrected to 1.3% but I speculated that the true IFR was most likely in the range of 0.13 %.At least that was correct for the under 70.

8781 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, #245 of 547 🔗

You appear to be good at this 🙂

8784 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #246 of 547 🔗

Sweden today
9 deaths under 30
88% of all deaths over 70
Almost 2/3 rd of all deaths at and over the usual life expectancy in Sweden

8843 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 4, #247 of 547 🔗

If you look here under China:

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/

The CFR for 70+ is (312+208)/(3918+1408) = 9.7%. For the under 70s, it adds up to 1.3%.

These are CFRs not IFRs, so don’t worry about the absolute numbers. I’m interested in the ratio. We’re seeing 7.55x the IFR for the over 70s compared to the under 70s.

But in Spain the IFR for the over-70s is 29x higher. We see something similar in the UK according to the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/13/pensioners-34-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid-19-than-working-age-brits-data-shows

Why this huge difference? I suspect nosocomial infections of the elderly in hospitals. In other words, there are far more _infections_ in the 70+ age group, and that’s why there are more deaths. The IFR is inflated because the risk of actually catching Covid is much higher in the hospital than in the population outside it.

The country-wide IFR is probably not that high– or why should it be so different in Spain to the 0.1% to 0.2% or (but definitely much less than 0.55%) we see in Iceland, where things were under control, and there have only been 10 deaths?

8862 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 3, #248 of 547 🔗

100% agree.Must be enormous nosocomial infection spread explaining these figures.If you don’t have this, as in Iceland ,your figures in Iceland is probaly the normal IFR for this virus

8891 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 2, #249 of 547 🔗

If this is the case it means they’ve done the worst possible thing, just like our care home fiasco here, which is to lock down all the wrong people at enormous cost while failing the people they could have saved. Those China figures should show a truer age ratio because they’re CFRs. You only ever know CFRs for sure, IFRs always involve some element of extrapolation.

8798 ianp, replying to ianp, 3, #250 of 547 🔗

OK… how to ascertain the mental state of people and nations at times like this? Only people will turn this around. Given that MSM has been manipulating since day 1, now sowing the seeds of manipulation and doubt on the way down from peak hysteria lockdown… Given that discussion seems to be polarised wherever you are on the web. Like we on here have opposed it from day 1, there are no dissenters are there?. Youtube has a load of doubters now from media streams, but it just ends up being a slanging match and not worth the effort to reason with the blind still up there.

So, those not as righteously indignant as us are doing as they are told, not really engaging on social media too much out of their own circles, and are at home quite confused and questioning of it all… I know having spoken to a friend who says he knows it’s bollocks but what can he do but play it out until he can go back to the pub – simple but true, most people just want those common pleasures back, and actually get back to work.

What are people doing at home in the evening? watching films.

Have a look at the film download charts and you will see all sorts of insight as to whats going on. Ignore anything released recently (as that’s drying up) and look at which older films are being downloaded… and by country as well, could be telling?.

Starship Troopers (a message on fascism if there ever was one), Mad Max 4, Inception, Armageddon, Day after tomorrow, Enemy of the state, Avatar, Fight Club, 300, Gladiator, Titanic… and of course The Matrix…. I even saw One flew over the Cuckoos Nest.

Outbreak = gone, Contagion = on its way out.

Feels like a bit of a theme and wonder if anyone can dissect from this any sort of conclusion? Interesting nonetheless

8803 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to ianp, #251 of 547 🔗

Which list you looking at Ian, I’d like to see that?

8816 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to BecJT, 1, #252 of 547 🔗

I just searched for film download charts and you can see the top 100 for various countries – think it is for itunes here : https://www.itopchart.com/gb/en/movies/ . Having thought about Starship Troopers, for the simple minded that might be their paranoia about germs and bugs… 🙁 . Spectacularly missing what it is really about

8804 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #253 of 547 🔗

https://twitter.com/gummibear737/status/1261657610937348096/photo/1

The most shocking table I have ever seen in this pandemic.US flu/pneumoniavs COVID-19 death statistics and adjusted life loss analysis. Total deaths Feb-May 13
Adjusted life years lost= how many years lost assuming an average life expectancy of 80
A death of a baby is 80. Adjusted life years loss is the standard thing to use in public heath
Amazing. There were more deaths of flu+pneumonia than Covid-19 and more startling also in adjusted life years lost.
I don’t think Trump would like that figure. He has shut down his country for something which is less severe than the current season of flu and pneumonia. Bad luck that it happened at the same time but what a mistake.

8815 ▶▶ JH, replying to swedenborg, -1, #254 of 547 🔗

That table is saying that everybody’s life lost over 80 is worthless. Thanks. I will be sure and tell my mother that. I am sure she will be thrilled.

A more relevant thing surely, if one’s going to make a calculation like this, would be the number of *future* years of life expectancy at age X — a table like this (for the USA) :
https://www.annuityadvantage.com/resources/life-expectancy-tables/

8823 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JH, 4, #255 of 547 🔗

You’re correct of course on the numbers that should have been used for life expectancy at various ages, but would it materially change importance of the results? The key there is that flu outweighed covid even during the period of covid’s prevalence, and there’s really no possibility of covid ending up dramatically different from flu in its overall toll..

8828 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to JH, 7, #256 of 547 🔗

Of course not. This is not speaking about individual life. This is the usual estimate of public health intervention. In this lockdown many breast cancer colon cancer patients will be missed in our screening programs which are not working now. Deaths of those cancer will be younger. This is part of normal public health calculations. These figures should guide us to the only solution ,protect our elderly so we have less deaths amongst them. How we do that? Not locking down the working population. We need them to sustain economically to help our elderly population. Is that social Darwinism?

8888 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, 5, #257 of 547 🔗

Flu kills proportionately more young and healthy people than COVID-19. That’s essentially what the table shows. So technically Flu is more dangerous to the population as a whole.

8820 GetaGrip, replying to GetaGrip, 38, #258 of 547 🔗

Bloody hell.
I quit the BMA years ago when I realized they were a self-serving bagfull of arseholes with nothing to say except ‘more money for the NHS, more money for NHS staff’ – repeat ad infinitum, whatever the question.

Now it appears that, contrary to ‘the science’ we hear so much about – in this case the review of cases/research by the Royal Collage of Paediatricians, so pretty credible stuff you might think – they’re too busy nosing up the teaching unions’ arse – who are the Covid equivalent of flat-earthers.

I can only assume Dr Nagpaul is being spared the joys a recalcitrant 15 year old and a 2nd year Uni student stuck at home, whose educational backbone is becoming more osteoporotic by the day.

And they’re just resisting the return of the Primary School ‘first wave’. Secondary kids are screwed until what, September???

And while I’m at it, simply piling stuff onto ‘Show My Homework’ or whatever does NOT constitute teaching a subject. You’re at home on FULL PAY, teachers and University lecturers, please make at least half an effort to impart some knowledge to our kids – the f**ed-up Generation – before it’s too late.

Dr Rant has left the building.

8824 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to GetaGrip, 8, #259 of 547 🔗

Please come back. That was great.

8842 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to GetaGrip, 10, #260 of 547 🔗

Brilliant. In the same boat with an A level and 1st year university student at home. More sympathy for lecturers than teachers – they have been royally screwed by the ‘blob’ that sits above them in administration/VCs at a time when they are under massive pressure to get their REF 2021 research in place. Nobody anywhere in government is considering this from the perspective of the young in any shape or form – the number of suicides of young people has vastly outweighed the deaths from CV. The ruling elite needs to put themselves in the shoes of those parents and hang their heads in shame.

8898 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to GetaGrip, 19, #261 of 547 🔗

Just broken lockdown to go and see my nephews and nieces. Apart from turning into internet addicts – nice lecture from Aunty to READ SOME BOOKS, your generation is now on watch so the maniacs never do it again, we need thinkers, thinkers need a frame of reference – they’re fine. But they all miss their friends, miss school, and are really bloody angry they’re missing Prom, missing exams, missing sports, concerts, camping trips etc, and will be saddled with debt and go down in history as the ‘covid generation’. I said good, you’ve a right to be angry, stay angry, nobody had any right to take your future away from you. Apparently their teachers will not communicate with them in any way unless it’s through the portal or app or whatever jiggery pokery they are having to use. They’re all really fed up with being at home. My niece has been sneaking out to see her best friend in the village, but distancing, until some people filmed them on mobile phones! That made me really angry. I said if it turns up in the village facebook group, as a name and shame, just write ‘nonce’ under it, it’ll soon disappear!

8825 Oaks79, #262 of 547 🔗

The science is split like politics left/right

8833 swedenborg, 3, #263 of 547 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2TEOnOnHVM
I am not sure this interview 29th April Sky Australia with Prof Giesecke has been published here before.

8838 Oaks79, replying to Oaks79, 11, #264 of 547 🔗

My neighbour has a put up lights on their fence that spell NHS (in blue) and a red heart shape. I suspect they will be out there at 8pm on Thursday like religious fanatics worshipping their deity

8848 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Oaks79, 9, #265 of 547 🔗

Pass the sickbag!

8857 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Oaks79, 7, #266 of 547 🔗

Yes, and I’ll bet in a couple of months these same people will be swearing at, spitting on and assaulting their “heroes” when they turn up at A&E pissed out of their brains.

8895 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Oaks79, 2, #267 of 547 🔗

I always think of their electricity bill and smile to myself, same at Christmas, keeping half the neighbourhood awake with light pollution, and singing f**king santas.

8840 thatguycalledrob, replying to thatguycalledrob, -8, #268 of 547 🔗

“Criminals attempting to stage a peaceful protest against the removal of their right to free speech successfully caught and arrested by met police’

(Or that’s what the headline should have been)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52693383

In fairness, these are mostly legit anti-vaxxers who have a notion that 5G causes cornovirus, so perhaps they do need locking up? Although for different reasons!

8845 ▶▶ Mark, replying to thatguycalledrob, 11, #269 of 547 🔗

“legit anti-vaxxers who have a notion that 5G causes cornovirus, so perhaps they do need locking up? ”

Is this still sarcasm? Or do you seriously think that holding a (let’s say, for the sake of argument here) crazy opinion should be grounds for punishment?

When common sense becomes revolutionary, it can be hard to tell what is and what isn’t sarcasm any more.

8879 ▶▶▶ thatguycalledrob, replying to Mark, 1, #270 of 547 🔗

To be clear, I don’t agree with removing people’s freedom of speech, or their right to protest – it’s a straight road from there to an authoritarian regime, regardless of what the reasons.

As for my last line, did you follow how the MSM covered the event?

8882 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to thatguycalledrob, 1, #271 of 547 🔗

Not in detail. I’m used to how the luegenpresse does things though.

9040 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark, 3, #272 of 547 🔗

The jabs given us oldies at school a long time ago and the standard tetanus, yellow fever and other standard travel jabs are completely different to the ones that are recommended for children from birth now and were a lot lower in number. I’m not anti-vaccine but anti the new damaging ones that cause horrendous problems to the population. My wife was recommended the flu jab one year, nearly killed her and she took a long, long time to recover, doctor’s not interested. Look at autism etc rates and compare country to country based on how many vaccines the children are given, very interesting. Japan – no mandated vaccination programme, effectively zero autism. The USA, lots of jabs, huge numbers of autism and increasing early as number of vaccinations increase. Thailand almost zero autism, now increasing as number of mandated vaccinations is increasing. Cause and effect? maybe but there is a definite correlation that anyone who tries to study it seriously gets shouted down as an unbeliever – much like the global warming new green deal and this pandemic.

Have you read what is in a “vaccine” now – mercury at 10000 time step safe working limit if you had to work with it (I did for years), aborted human fatal cells, monkey cells, acetone and lots of other poisons. Why?

And where are all the modern allergies coming from? – milk, eggs, soy, peanuts etc and the autoimmune response problems due to squalene in the vaccines. These are all ingredients in the vaccine and when injected with the “illness” your body’s autoimmune response tags them along with the illness as a problem and tries to fight them off. Add in they mercury, aborted baby cells etc and they are a real terrifying mix.

8863 ▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to thatguycalledrob, 10, #273 of 547 🔗

I was there, and they were not mostly legit anti-vaxxers bla bla. They were mostly people willing to break the law, and risk getting covid-19 (though most no doubt understood that the risk is almost zero in London at the moment) to defend their own and their fellow citizens’ rights and freedoms.

8907 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to bluefreddy, 4, #274 of 547 🔗

Wish I cold have flown down to London to join you. Nobody gave a fuck here 😢 except me, sat there with me book, asking passersby if they wanted to chat
(They didn’t)

9212 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #275 of 547 🔗

I’d have been happy to chat if I’d been a passerby!

9035 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to thatguycalledrob, 1, #276 of 547 🔗

Research shows that 5G does not cause coronavirus. Not even David Icke said that but he was misrepresented deliberately – listen to the London real interview then his “defence” of himself a few days later on his website.

What he said was the same as I say below – that 5G makes it all worse, a lot worse.

What is being proved more and more often is that the way 5G especially, but other EMFs can be just as harmful (documented since about 1850 when the electrification of rural America started), increase the effects of the coronavirus on the human body.

In effect the 5G/coronavirus can be classed as a binary weapon.

5G was developed as an area denial system for the US Military, I won’t give you any links but these two:

http://stateofthenation.co/?s=9375
http://www.radiationdangers.com/microwave-sickness/

I bet you know people who suffer without knowing it.

How do I know this is true? My wife suffers from electromagnetic hypersensitivity. It does exist and is real.

Call me a nutter, conspiracy theorist, whatever I am used to it.

My wife’s neurologist said that if the steps we are taking improve her mentally then he could take 75% of the people off his list, not spoken to him yet a this “unprecedented pandemic” stopped his clinics.

I know from experience that you cannot change someone’s ideas or opinions in a reasoned argument no matter how much evidence is put in front of them. They have to change their own mind hence the lack of links as you need tor research ti all yourself.

8847 Tony Rattray, replying to Tony Rattray, 13, #277 of 547 🔗

It looks like scotland may well be the last country in europe out of lockdown confirming that short individuals with ginger hair and chips on their shoulder are actually most at risk.

SNPs solution to the real socio-economic disaster to come, universal basis income. Thus moving from the current situation of a guaranteed income for staying at home and doing nothing to, drum roll, a guaranteed income for saying at home and doing nothing. Oh dear.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-commission-considering-universal-basic-22028144

8858 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Tony Rattray, 4, #278 of 547 🔗

Hello Tony. All paid for from the proceeds of the magic bottomless oil supply.

8881 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tony Rattray, 5, #279 of 547 🔗

It’s no surprise judging from the lady (didn’t catch her name) on Question Time who is an advisor for the Scottish Government on their strategy. She was saying we should be aspiring to be like South Korea and definitely not like Sweden. That being the case it’s no surprise that Scotland is staying in lockdown for as long as possible. Surely not till we have zero cases though?

8910 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #280 of 547 🔗

That’s strange. SNP have been banging on for years about Scotland emulating our Scandinavian “cousins” (progressive social policies et al). Obviously not when it comes to dealing with a “pandemic”,

9220 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #281 of 547 🔗

She’s Devi Sridhar and a dedicated Gates agenda propagandist. Problem now is that the Beeb keep calling on her because Sturgeon is playing political games with Boris, so she’s asked to account for Scotland’s differing viewpoint on covid safety. At least Chris Whitty keeps letting his true opinions slip out!

8855 paulito, replying to paulito, 9, #282 of 547 🔗

I should’ve added in my last post about our visit to my mother in law that despite shying away from hugging her daughter with her plaintive “better not eh” we did have a very good chat about the situation. As a vulnerable person she’s scared but agreed with almost everything we said. She firmly believes the government is fiddling the data and were responsible for the hugse number of deaths in care homes. She’s somewhere between critical of the Government’s handling of the situation and a more general scepticism of the whoe charade.

9221 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, #283 of 547 🔗

Good start! Hopefully she’ll be up for a hug next time you see her.

8859 BobUSA, replying to BobUSA, 15, #284 of 547 🔗

Greetings from Sunny Southern California,

Here’s a typical piece of COVID-19 bullshit–from Foreign Affairs:

“With thousands of Americans dying each day from COVID-19, the catastrophic scale of the U.S. government’s failure has become increasingly apparent. As with the assault on Pearl Harbor and the 9/11 attacks, the United States has been left essentially undefended. The results have been staggering. In under three months, the United States has suffered as many fatalities from COVID-19 as it did during 18 years of combat in Vietnam. Every two days, the United States loses around the same number of people as it did in the 9/11 attacks. Realistic estimates project that the number of pandemic deaths will far exceed the number of U.S. combat deaths during the wars in Korea and Vietnam combined.”

Best stats I could find claim 58,220 US deaths–and that includes accidents and all noncombat fatalities.

And here’s an item on CDC estimates of the 2017-2018 flu season in the US.

“CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2017–2018 season was high with an estimated 45 million people getting sick with influenza, 21 million people going to a health care provider, 810,000 hospitalizations, and 61,000 deaths from influenza (Table 1). The number of cases of influenza-associated illness that occurred during 2017-2018 was the highest since the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, when an estimated 60 million people were sick with influenza (7). The 2017–2018 influenza season was additionally atypical in that it was severe for all ages (6).
The burden of influenza and the rates of influenza-associated hospitalization are generally higher for the very young and the very old, and while this was also true during the 2017–2018 season, rates of hospitalization in all age groups were the highest seasonal rates seen since hospital-based surveillance was expanded in 2005 to include all ages (Table 2). This translated into an estimated 11 million cases of influenza in children, 28 million cases of influenza in working age adults (aged 18-64 years), and 6 million cases in adults aged 65 years and older.”

What–the Flu With No Name took more US lives than 18 years of Vietnam? Why didn’t I ever see that reported? Where was the US media?

8899 ▶▶ guy153, replying to BobUSA, 6, #285 of 547 🔗

A tragic loss of life. But think of the children! Less than 100 years after they’re born these innocents are snatched away by what is still by far the biggest killer of Americans, dreaded Natural Causes.

9251 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to guy153, 1, #286 of 547 🔗

Yes we need a vaccine against natural causes

8860 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #287 of 547 🔗

Here’s my version of G&S’s “I’ve got them on a List”

As some day it may happen that a victim must be found
I’ve got a little list — I’ve got a little list
Of this pandemic that we’ve gone OTT
And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!
There’s the pestilential media who write for autographs —
All newsreaders who shout apocalyptic headlines —
Piers Morgan and Susanna Reid —
Those daily briefings and those irritating questions —
And Mike Hancock and his absurd slogans —
They’d none of ’em be missed — they’d none of ’em be missed!

[Chorus]
He’s got ’em on the list — he’s got ’em on the list;
And they’ll none of ’em be missed — they’ll none of ’em be missed

There’s Professor Lockdown, and Imperial College
And his dodgy spunk trumpet — I’ve got her on the list!
And his silly figures and 15 year old programme
They never would be missed — they never would be missed!
Then the idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone
All centuries but this, and every country but his own;
And the NHS as a state religion
And the public who clap like seals
And that singular anomaly, the dancing nurses —
I don’t think they’d be missed — I’m sure they’d not be missed!

[Chorus]
He’s got them on the list — he’s got them on the list;
And I don’t think they’ll be missed — I’m sure they’ll not be missed!

And the lockdown zealots, who just now is rather rife
The snitcher and self-righteous — I’ve got him on the list!
All social distancing, bank robber wannabes and dirty looks —
They’d none of ’em be missed — they’d none of ’em be missed
And tourist boards, unions and teachers too scared to face the world
And those furloughed at 80 per cent and love a freebie
And those accusing sceptics of wanting more to die
I’m sure there are more you want to put upon the list
But it really doesn’t matter whom you put upon the list
For they’d none of ’em be missed — they’d none of ’em be missed!

[Chorus]
You may put ’em on the list — you may put ’em on the list;
And they’ll none of ’em be missed — they’ll none of ’em be missed!

8938 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #288 of 547 🔗

Brilliant!

8958 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Edna, 2, #289 of 547 🔗

Thank you *takes a bow*

8861 coalencanth12, replying to coalencanth12, 16, #290 of 547 🔗

Not much excitement in my locale today, but I have made two interesting observations:

1. Now the lockdown is ‘eased’ lots of hypochondriacs are starting to venture out. Today on a country path, some revolting woman and her family walked into a field to avoid passing close to me on fairly wide byway. Then shouted out sarcastically ‘you’re welcome’ as I evidently failed to thank her for her ‘sacrifice’. Of course leading her family into a field with the farmer buzzing quite speedily around on his tractor doing his work is really safe. Plus the party seemed to be composed of at least two households!! I can see these social distancing thingies causing a punch-up at some stage if people with this kind of attitude pick on the wrong person.

2. Lots of people, shall we say, on the larger end of the BMI have suddenly become very interested in running and cycling. Further to this, there is an interesting rumour doing the rounds that local employers are giving serious thought to excluding high BMI people from a general return to work…

9175 ▶▶ Paul, replying to coalencanth12, 2, #291 of 547 🔗

It does seem to be bringing quite a few unpleasant people out of their caves,the reaction from some of them when I say good morning or hello to them is as if I had pointed a gun at them !,one evening I was walking our dog around a country path near to my home,where I have walked for 50 years,I met a young couple and the man accused me angrily of doing something wrong due to ‘Covid regulations’,not sure what exactly because I didn’t hear him properly,I just shook my head at him and carried on.

8871 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 34, #292 of 547 🔗

The whole lockdown and social distancing thing is rubbish.
If you’ve got symptoms or feel unwell, just self-isolate for a couple of weeks.
No need to shut down the whole country. It makes no sense.
We are being led by idiots.

8897 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Jonathan Castro, 11, #293 of 547 🔗

Yes, this is the most important measure and has almost no cost. Even “self isolating” for one week or just a few days when symptomatic makes a huge difference (it can halve R and thus reduce herd immunity threshold from 60% to 20%).

There is one piece of legislation the government needs to do which is to make it illegal to say in employment contracts that if you’re off sick for more than two days you need a note from a Doctor.

They should then recommend that you don’t go out or to work if you’re aware that you have a cold or flu like illness, but that if you have to, wear a mask.

This is all we need. It won’t stop all transmission of the virus but you don’t need to. You just need to keep R below 1. That’s what people don’t seem to understand who get so exercised about the minuscule risk posed by passing someone on the street who may be asymptomatic but infected.

9230 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Castro, #294 of 547 🔗

Most people who felt unwell will already have been doing that. Now there’s all this song and dance about tracking but the rally idiotic thing is that we we’ve never been given the opportunity to report that we might have the virus, therefore it hasn’t been monitored from the start. So much for their proclaimed heavy reliance on AI.

9420 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Cheezilla, #295 of 547 🔗

I think there is an app done by Imperial that you can use to report Covid-like symptoms that then feeds into an AI that says we’re doomed.

8878 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 26, #296 of 547 🔗

Oh god. Just watching Press Preview on Sky News and they were discussing opening of schools. Freddie Sayers giving the argument for opening and gave examples countries that were opening schools again with no signs of increased infection. Also cited Sweden who didn’t close down their schools. Rachel Shabi is shaking her head vigorously and responds with we can all find examples to make our case. There are countries that have done well who aren’t opening schools…

Seriously? Countries that have opened schools make an evidence backed case. Countries that aren’t opening schools are proof of nothing in particular with regards to opening schools.

8892 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #297 of 547 🔗

How many children and teachers have died in countries that kept their schools open?

9162 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to BecJT, 2, #298 of 547 🔗

I believe only ONE here in Sweden – a child who already had leukaemia. If there’d been a lot, the schools would have closed – the government passed a law to make it possible to shut schools, if it was deemed necessary. They are still open! And likely to remain so, as the summer holiday starts around the end of the first week of June, so not long to go now..

8887 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 9, #299 of 547 🔗

Tweeted by Professor Karol Sikora:

“Things seemed bleak six weeks ago, but there was always a light at the end of the tunnel.

The situation will continue to improve.

If we all show some common sense, life will feel so much more normal by the end of June.

Hope is still the best motivator!”

8896 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RDawg, 34, #300 of 547 🔗

There’s a place for positivity but it can also help to prop up a disastrous regime. As it happens I agree with Peter Hitchens – we will not be able to escape this mess any time soon, until we have forced the government that inflicted it into an admission of fault.

Worse, if we never get such an admission then the fault itself will be allowed to fade into memory as a situation when mistakes were made but only in implementation not fundamentals, and the policy of lockdown in response to a scary disease will remain lying in wait for us for when the next opportunity for it arises. A guilty politician invariably wants nothing more than he wants everyone to “move on” and to “focus on where we go from here”, so as to take attention off his crimes or his disastrous errors.

There’s a time for positivity and for rebuilding, but now is a time for anger.

8926 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Mark, 15, #301 of 547 🔗

As deaths and cases continue to plummet, evidence piles up daily showing the pandemic is essentially over and more and more people starting to question the approach taken by government, could the Government’s continuing insistence that it’ still poses a threat be a strategy to avoid the reckoning they see coming? Their obsession with social distancing, despite it being absolutely useless, suggests that their toolbox is very nearly empty. If the social distancing strategy fails the whole lockdown edifice may well crumble.

8893 Oaks79, 7, #302 of 547 🔗

But it’s ok for Bill Gates to fund pretty much whatever he wants. I don’t care what any one says but there is definitely agenda being pushed by pro-establishment, its all the same people in the media etc that were/are anti Trump, anti Brexit that are pushing the fear.

JetBlue (lockdown sceptic apparently) funded the Stanford Santa Clara study now its being

https://t.co/dExNhZTVX0?amp=1

8911 A Meshiea, replying to A Meshiea, 25, #303 of 547 🔗

DIARY OF A COVIDIOT Saturday May 16th

I delivered essential groceries to my loving parents who are in their just about 80s. My poor mother is stuck with my dad who is slightly high risk because of potential comorbidities. Meanwhile she is bored as hell having to play her part as supportive wife to the new hypochondriac virus that has infested half the planet-and 90 percent of the internet connected planet.
I’m very torn, I want my mum to enjoy some of her life and I know she is a survivor, but to bring her out to freedom means leaving my coronophobic dad alone. I told him to stop watching CNN and BSBBBC but he thinks that’s real news. He’s lost. But why should my mum who knows this is total BS be consigned with the task of reinforcing this? I have a place in the country for them to escape to but my father can’t even hug me, so how do I even get him there.
Meanwhile he has no comprehension that everything he has worked for is going to be absconded by the state when the financial crisis hits.
He thinks I’m nuts.
On the drive home I drove past Hyde park and heard the police helicopters scanning the brave souls protesting against the new 1984. I knew they were being arrested and followed by horse riding non masked police tasked with preventing dissent and I felt guilty and sick for not joining them.
To make myself feel better I drove to my friend in Earl’s Court and visited unannounced. He actually has some reason to worry with a diabetic condition but I needed to see him, even if it was at the bottom of his steps, just to see a friend in the real world not this mad one. To my surprise he asked for a hug and we spent some time together. It felt good.
I Came home and had to do another brain rewiring Saturday virtual quiz night with friends who think this virus response is fine. I’m torn between screaming that this is all bollocks and not wanting to lose friends.
I ended my night on a real low. I watched the Eurovision Neurovision coronovirus edition of an already terrible yearly festival of twee. It was twee with terror on top.
How low have we sunk?

8919 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to A Meshiea, 11, #304 of 547 🔗

I feel your pain. I would happily give you a hug.

8930 ▶▶ paulito, replying to A Meshiea, 13, #305 of 547 🔗

Glad to hear you were able to have a hug from your friend. Its seeing normal behaviour like this which hopefully will coax more people out of their fear engendered paralysis and back to normal life. I’m in my late 50’s and had stents inserted to open up blocked arteries 4 years ago. Technically speaking I’m at “high risk”. However, I think the risk of a heart attack is much greater if I lock myself away and surrender myself to panic, fear and anxiety. Furthermore, my heart disease is my problem and I don’t see why my neighbours should lose their Jobs to keep me “safe”.

9008 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #306 of 547 🔗

I honestly don’t think this whole thing could’ve happened without the MSM.

Medical and military experts asked by Swiss Propoganda Research recommend keeping three possible scenarios in mind when analyzing current developments („the three P’s“):

A pandemic of a dangerous virus
A media-induced mass psychosis
A potential psychological operation

Turn off your TV / Social Media and Newspapers and the virus magically disappears!!!

9165 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jenny, #307 of 547 🔗

The Swiss Propaganda research website – https://swprs.org/2020/05/06/covid19-may-update/ – is well worth reading! Available in an impressive 24 languages too!

9184 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Carrie, 1, #308 of 547 🔗

Have you noticed that it is now called the Swiss POLICY site now?

9232 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, #309 of 547 🔗

I hadn’t noticed that. Smart move! I always thought their original name was a bit too provoctive, it’s actually held me back from passing on the link to their site.

9060 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #310 of 547 🔗

Not switching the telly on is always helpful. 🙂 Read a book, do some sudoku, plant a hanging basket.

Glad you got a hug though.

8913 Willow, replying to Willow, 10, #311 of 547 🔗

I’ve just sent an open letter to the Chair of the UK statistics authority. Do the same?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13Gr1uItRP8PZIndUeAZEiN9y4ec1b-2RMPEWJZxWpXo

9233 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Willow, #312 of 547 🔗

That’s a brilliant letter. Let’s hope it triggers the right response.

8914 BobT, replying to BobT, 10, #313 of 547 🔗

Some on this blog are tagging on their political or other beliefs which have absolutely nothing to do with the crisis we are facing. It is distracting and counterproductive.

We are fighting the brainwashing that has been brought upon the worlds citizenry based on fear of an initially unknown but now provably erroneous threat of a large scale death toll from a novel virus. We are now looking to contain the damage from the out of proportion actions taken by our Governments which will provably lead to more deaths, more poverty and a weakening of the relatively stable world order which has given us the gift of peace and prosperity in our lifetimes.

What we do not need are another set of brainwashed people who are politically either vehemently right wing and hate the lefties or vice versa. Simplistic herd politics has nothing to do with where we are and will not help us get out of this situation. So please go away.

Climate change deniers are trying to conflate their issue and this one by assuming that all lockdown sceptics are also climate sceptics. This is not true and not helpful. Climate change is observable and if you would care to take a trip up to theArcic and talk to people there they will tell you it is real. It is settled science, so you lot can go away too.

People who are carte blanche against vaccination should go and visit a groesquely deformed baby whose mother caught Rubella while pregnant because she did not take advantage of the vaccination instead of spouting their nonsense here. Vaccines have saved many millions of lives but I do admit that we have to be careful with new ones to make sure he cure is not worse than the disease.

For the 5g conspiracy theorists, bugger off.

For the people (probably not most of the readers here) who are terrified that this virus will kill them and their families and that this is the worst thing that has happened to them in their lifetime, I recommend a trip to one of the concentration / death camp museums in Germany or Poland where you can see the kind of shit that has happened before and can happen again. World war 2 claimed the lives of about 70 million people which is 200 times the number of global deaths associated with this virus. Nobody cowered in their homes during the wars, they went out on mass and built aircraft, ships and weapons to defend themselves. Soldiers went and fought for the freedoms we now enjoy and many lost their lives in the process.

So lets fight our way out of this in the same spirit and not be distracted by politics or nutter conspiracy theorists.

8922 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to BobT, 11, #314 of 547 🔗

Climate change is not the issue. It is man-made climate change that is the issue. And the science is not settled on that.

8943 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Mike Smith, 11, #315 of 547 🔗

Much of the climate change ‘science’ is built around computer models. A great deal of attention is focused on computer models from one institution run by a certain individual funded by a certain other wealthy benefactor. All sounds very familiar doesn’t it.

9092 ▶▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to South Coast Worker, #316 of 547 🔗

At least the climate models which estimate temperature increases have a number of starting parameters, which are ’empirically’ chosen so that they result in the expected warming values, and model authors admit as much in their papers. That is what happens when you have too many degrees of freedom in the form of undetermined parameters — you can get the results that you want out of the model, whether it is an epidemiological or a climate one.

8924 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to BobT, 8, #317 of 547 🔗

Agree – lockdownsceptics.org sums up why I here. Nothing to do with politics, climate change etc.

8953 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to BobT, 12, #318 of 547 🔗

You have very strong views but perhaps you need to be careful to impose your views on others, label others in the same way as Mainstream Media (put them in their box/smear them) or suggest censorship of information (unless you personally agree with it, that it should not be published).

Summary of your points:

1. political or other beliefs are not allowed here – go away

2. do not challenge climate change, as it is ‘settled in science’ [where did i hear ‘settled in science’ before? Ah, our Government used it to lock down the country and keep it locked down]

3. do not challenge vaccinations as it saved millions of lives [what about vaccination deaths and disablements. see Vaccine Adverse Reporting System, https://vaers.hhs.gov also https://www.vaccinedeaths.com etc]

4. 5g conspiracy theorists bugger off [Who gives you the right to label them as conspiracy theorists? We are responsible for our own health so we have the right to look at information from both sides and then decide if we regard 5G as a potential health threat or no health threat]

5. If you are afraid of the virus go and visit one of the concentration camps where millions died [no travelling allowed at this stage, so might have to consider another way to change peoples minds and hearts]

9007 ▶▶ Andy, replying to BobT, 3, #319 of 547 🔗

People have their own reasons for opposing lockdown.

Everyone is different and will see this through their own lens of perception and belief system. No one is going to come here with a clean slate and leave behind all the reasons why they ended up on this page.

Your examples of people are over-simplified, generalised and there are many good reasons people have ‘become’ anti-vax, climate change ‘deniers’ etc etc. Reiterating these weaponised terms is not helpful and comes across as rather derogatory and ill-informed.

eg

There are many people who have been affected by vaccine damage and oppose mandatory vaccination (note the Government has a Vaccine Damage Payment).

Others who are concerned about their health because of the lax 5G testing despite initial concerning questions (there have been no 5G safety studies into short or long-term 5G health effects, and the health effects of 5G are untested, we cannot say with certainty what 5G effects are on the human body).

Instead of slating everyone for not being in this ‘for the right reasons’ maybe consider whether your reasons are any better than other peoples.

9059 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to BobT, 2, #320 of 547 🔗

“People who are carte blanche against vaccination … ”

People are entitled to their own opinions, BobT. For shame with the big pharma emotional shite, masquerading as argument.

“For the 5g conspiracy theorists …”

Does that include the 200 scientists and engineers taking legal action about it ?

Wouldn’t like to be in your resistance group, the division you casually spread. And as for your (fairly clumsy) attempt to make us think we are in any way demeaning sacrifices made by our forebears if we question vaccines or 5G – do one.

9094 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BobT, 1, #321 of 547 🔗

BobT – unfortunately we cannot just say “lift the lockdown (how I hate that word, call it population imprisonment maybe) as I don’t agree with it. I wish we could as then the readers of this and other thinking websites would have had it lifted on Day 2 or even better had it stopped before implementation.

You need to find out whys behind it all, when you have that you can then start refuting the reasoning and falsehoods etc with facts.

Problem is this searching for why can lead in strange directions before you find yourself on the right path and that is what is happening here and on other blogs and websites, sometimes misdirected by trolls and the 77th.

The whys are not just as simple as “flatten the curve” or “save the NHS” , there will be a lot more behind it than what is said out loud in the daily pantomimes laughingly called briefings by our lords and masters.

Don’t get distracted but remember the old quote (cannot remember who by or exact words but paraphrased) “I don’t agree with what you say but I agree and will fight to the death for your right to say it.”

Don’t like what someone says either ignore them or fight them with facts and let them then change their minds themselves. Anything else is futile.

Or as has happened to me now and again over the years I have changed my mind. That’s the joys of not only questioning someone else’s beliefs but your own as well and why I like reading things I don’t always agree with and then I don’t get stuck in an insulated little bubble of opinion.

Good hunting to all for the why behind it all, it will definitely be interesting hen it does come out.

8920 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 19, #322 of 547 🔗

Had to go into town yesterday, but wasn’t sure whether any shops would require me to wear a mask. Like many people here, I’m going to find that extremely difficult to tolerate. The wife very kindly offered to make a token mask of some sort before I set off, but I think that would be even worse: having to make your own badge of compliance.

I hit upon the idea of simply carrying an ordinary winter scarf with me. If a shop demands I wear a mask, I’ll wrap it around my face and it will send out the message that:
(a) I have gone to no effort or expense whatsoever
(b) I’ll not be wearing it for a moment longer than absolutely necessary
(c) I am not in any way accepting that mask wearing is desirable
(d) I do not celebrate lockdown culture

8927 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Barney McGrew, 13, #323 of 547 🔗

“I do not celebrate lockdown culture”

So many have meekly accepted the personal indignities which the lockdown culture is imposing on us.

If the Government decrees that those with immunity must be branded with an “Immune” tattoo on their forehead, millions would accept it.

9029 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #324 of 547 🔗

I won’t patronize nor support with my money any place that insists o wear a mask.

9169 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #325 of 547 🔗

I will not spend my money in any shop that requires a mask to be worn by customers or any shop that makes customers queue outside like infant school pupils waiting to be allowed into the dinner hall.If I can’t get what I want from a business that treats customers normally I will go without.

9242 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, #326 of 547 🔗

Fortunately, mask-wearing is currently voluntary in the UK. Even then, we’re told a “face covering” eg a scarf will suffice. If face coverings become mandatory, I shall inverst in the flimsiest sparkly chiffon one I can find. A hat with two raised fingers would be a good complementary accessory too.

8921 kh1485, 3, #327 of 547 🔗

Following on from my various comments about ‘Question Time’ and the need to take the piss, this is great from Harry Enfield and Paul Whitehouse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3tUqRBiMVo

8923 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #328 of 547 🔗

The jury is still bigly out on the exact origin of Covid 19.

‘”If I am pressed for an answer, I would say the original spread started more likely in southern China than in Wuhan,” Mr Forster said.’

https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/covid-19-coronavirus-older-thought-18111543

‘….the first virus genome that was sampled on 24 December 2019 already is distant from the root type according to the bat coronavirus outgroup rooting.’

https://www.pnas.org/content/117/17/9241

9166 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tim Bidie, #329 of 547 🔗

Professor Dolores Cahill reckons it leaked from a lab in Wuhan and that it spread at the funeral of a female worker there who died. See the video ‘Debunking the narrative’ with Dolores..

8932 South West Skeptic, replying to South West Skeptic, 19, #330 of 547 🔗

Is it just me or does it feel like lockdown is over in all but name?

I’m now going about life in a relatively normal way, the only things that aren’t normal (and I suppose there are a lot):

1. The kids aren’t at school (I see this as a national scandal)
2. We can’t “officially” visit friends in there home (I think I’ll break this soon)
3. We can’t go to pubs / restaurants (I personally think this will be eased before July due to the overwhelming evidence)

I’m starting to think the government have started to realise that herd immunity is the only way out of this, hence the change in messaging and also the ambiguous new rules. They just need to keep some semblance of “lockdown” to appease the screaming plebs.

We had a great day yesterday. My son went to see his girlfriend and they had a picnic in the park. We took my daughter and her friend to the beach. Got fish and chips and ice cream and went for a walk. We were happy, the other family were happy to have their child in the car with us. Great day, felt really normal.

My wife told her lockdown zealot sister on a video call last night and she gave us a look like we’d committed a terrible crime, “what? You had a child from another family in your car?”. My wife got really upset last night, I told her not to worry.

I’m just hoping that the zealots sat in there houses are going to start to look so ludicrous over the coming weeks, that they’ll just crawl out into the sunshine and join the sane

We’ll see

8933 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to South West Skeptic, 14, #331 of 547 🔗

I do hope you’re right. I’m like a pendulum right now – I swing between feeing optimistic and thinking that the lockdown is crumbling all around me and that we’re finally gaining momentum to get ourselves out of this hell, to feeling really low again as soon as I read the screaming and the pessimism from politicians reported on the MSM, who seem hell-bent on dragging this crisis out as long as they can.

I think that’s what’s really struck me throughout all of this – the pessimism. It has completely crushed morale around the world at a time when we all need hope and something to look forward to. You really have to ask yourself why a doom-and-gloom narrative is being pedalled, and why every scrap of optimistic news is shot down while bad news is milked for all it’s worth.

8946 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Poppy, 15, #332 of 547 🔗

I’m really fed up with the self hatred as well. I’m not a particularly patriotic person (of the ‘put the Great back into Great Britain’ variety, and I think Britain First are dangerous fascists, I don’t subscribe to jingoistic nonsense) but, why do people hate their own country so much? We’re the worst, we’re losing, we’re failing, we’re rubbish, we’re terrible, it’s going to get worse, and on and on and on. It’s so miserable and defeatist. Being born British, globally speaking, is a winning Lotto ticket. Despite our chequered colonial past, we are awesome at innovation, have largely made the world a better place, we are largely tolerant, well integrated, not racist, we have a fantastic sense of humour, an amazingly well developed civic society, we’re generally sensible, pragmatic, helpful, polite, community minded, our politicans might be somewhat inept, but we’re not riddled with corruption, our institutions largely work, we have a fair tax system, our health system might be a bit creaky but pretty much functions, we’re world leaders at arts and culture, our democratic system has inspired other countries around the world (Nelson Mandela in the new south africa modelled their system on ours, because it was ‘the best in the world’) and on and on and on. I don’t understand this glee and revelling in how dreadful we are.

8961 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to BecJT, 1, #333 of 547 🔗

Wonderfully said.

9054 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Poppy, 9, #334 of 547 🔗

Yeah, it’s really difficult to avoid pessimism in these crazy times, but pessimism is infectious (far more than Covid-19) and the best the sceptics can do is be a beacon in the darkness. I’ve felt prone to giving up but I’m buggered if I’m going to let them win. By nature I’m a cantankerous sod and so I’m doing my best to ignore lockdown and just get on with it. I’m with BecJT regarding the occupation of France in WWII. I would have resisted not because I’m brave, I’m not, but because I can’t stand other people interfering in my life without good and just cause. I don’t wave a flag when I ignore the lockdown (I can’t afford the £100) I just do it – oh and rush headlong towards anyone who wears a mask Darkest before the dawn and all those cliches. Be a beacon, never give up. It’s hard which is why a site like this can help us support each other.

9096 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 3, #335 of 547 🔗

I like to think I would have resisted. This has clarified for me that it is, actually, the only sane response, I hope I would have had the courage. I’ve never been in a war, no idea how I actually would react, but I’d like to think I’d do the right thing. There’s a great line in Band of Brothers (I’ve read Captain Winters’ book also) about survival, it was not that they weren’t scared, they were all scared, just that those who made it through, could be scared *and still think*.

I don’t subscribe to the cult of positive thinking, or New Age woo either, I just like reality! In fact I think part of what is going on is mushy new age thinking, ‘it’ll all be fine’, when it really won’t, well not unless some of us do something.

9194 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to BecJT, 2, #336 of 547 🔗

I agree that some of us have to do something. For me it’s defiance and minor things like posting under my real name (though I perfectly understand if people don’t, that wasn’t a veiled criticism.) But if we don’t demonstrate opposition then the more timid amongst us who might have doubts about lockdown might not even know that there is an opposition that they can join.

8934 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to South West Skeptic, 15, #337 of 547 🔗

There’s certainly some of what you describe happening down my way. While out for a walk I saw someone get out of a car and head into a house bearing a suitcase – obviously visiting. Hardly anyone wears a mask. There’s signs of young people meeting up as well. Of course, being in Scotland, there’s not many places open to go to, thanks to the vile ginger haired creature. The lockdown zealots still make a lot of noise on local Facebook pages but their postings are now generally ignored. The biggest issue, I think, is that too many people are actually enjoying the lockdown – free money, no work etc. These poor idiots don’t realise they may not have a job to go back to.

8940 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to South West Skeptic, 11, #338 of 547 🔗

I think this is precisely what’s happening, I also went to someone’s house last night, and my nephews and nieces are doing the same with their friends. Also I think herd immunity was always the plan (it was a very ‘leaky’ lockdown). I also agree that over time, zealots will start to look and feel foolish.

I don’t subscribe to the view that BoJo has a cunning plan all along, but having created a fiasco, I think they are now politicking their way out of it.

And I’ve been thinking about this, here we are after a resounding Labour defeat, when the working classes largely voted Tory, and yet we have Labour activists bashing left leaning doubters over the head with Tory slogans, and calling them ‘right wing’. I have hope that that situation is going to become politically very uncomfortable for them pretty soon.

8951 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 8, #339 of 547 🔗

“Also I think herd immunity was always the plan (it was a very ‘leaky’ lockdown).”

Not convinced by this. The lockdown they introduced was unprecedented in scale and detail, other than being incompetently managed in particularly damaging areas namely care homes. If they deliberately made it leaky in those areas then it was not a matter of cunningly implementing herd immunity on the sly, but rather of criminal incompetence.

And how do you account for the utterly gratuitous stupidity of the 2m rule? They could easily have made it 1m and done a lot less damage.

9100 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, 2, #340 of 547 🔗

Care homes are the disgrace of the whole thing. Friend of mine is a PhD, her specialism was the cold virus (corona viruses), just from what she said about how respiratory viruses spread, it was pointless for transmission. If you look at Sage’s papers and the assumptions they made about all the non medical interventions they were looking at, the only ones that work are washing your hands, staying at home if you are sick, and sensible social distancing for the over 75s. Chris Whitty also did a lecture in 2018 called how to control a pandemic, he says there that most of things we’ve done are ‘utterly useless’ both in terms of transmission and death. Im actually expecting some public dissent from the scientists soon, Harries was almost scathing about this R-ometer idea, and I’m starting to wonder with sage how much of what we did was the government over ruling the scientists. I’ve also read here and there that it was the scientists who through Ferguson under the bus, I think there’s more to come on that too. They are not united in terms of what action they thought we should have taken.

9101 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, 1, #341 of 547 🔗

*threw

9197 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to BecJT, #342 of 547 🔗

There’s plenty of public dissent from scientists just not, as far as I know, many from the UK. (Happy to stand corrected.)

8944 ▶▶ Mark, replying to South West Skeptic, 9, #343 of 547 🔗

There’s certainly going to be a process of ongoing discrediting of the lockdown nonsense, and I agree that has already started. Partly because it’s so obvious that so many of the groups making a fuss about it (trade unions, anti-Tory point-scorers) have their own agendas. The fear is going to shift from the disease to the economic consequences of the lockdown (and at least the latter is something genuinely to be feared).

To your list I’d add:

4 Costly productivity damage from attempts to try to work under stupid anti-disease measures such as the 2m rule, but also other restrictions

5 Most hobbies and sports that involved group activity

8948 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to South West Skeptic, 6, #344 of 547 🔗

I agree and over the last few days there have been more and more people out and about in my area basically ignoring social distancing and the number of people wearing masks have been going down as well. This is pretty much playing into the government’s hands as having painted themselves into a corner the only way to weasel out of this was to announce vague guidelines making them so unenforcable that the police can do nothing.

That said I have seen people I know condemning the anti-lockdown protests yesterday and while I accept that its their right not to agree with them, I hope that they will eventually be the minority and realise that the current situation is unsustainable.

Perhaps the tide is turning.

9055 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #345 of 547 🔗

We are the dance of the Moon and the Sun,
We are the light in everyone.
We are the hope that will never hide,
We are the turning of the Tide.

8963 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to South West Skeptic, 9, #346 of 547 🔗

Absolutely agree. I feel different this week somehow – maybe it was just because of our local garden centre opening and being able to do something “normal” – but psychologically I’m feeling very much able to get out and about and am rating to go. I a bit institutionalised and has to push myself but I’ve deliberately driven all over my county, visited friends out of doors, been in shops etc etc. I’m feeling much more normal! And that’s the old normal not this “new normal”. Right I’m off to the garden centre again for more pots ….. 🙂

8964 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #347 of 547 🔗

Sorry for the spelling errors in my post above – I haven’t got my glasses on!

9065 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #348 of 547 🔗

That’s my excuse -along with predictive text – hate it.

8935 Oaks79, replying to Oaks79, 7, #349 of 547 🔗

Looking at the reaction across my social media towards the Hyde Park protest, a vast majority think the protesters and the lockdown sceptics are conspiracy nutters. It got me thinking was all the 5G stuff at the beginning of all this put out there on purpose for this very moment, the 5G conspiracy did get a lot of media attention and was even brought up im the daily press briefing.

8937 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Oaks79, 7, #350 of 547 🔗

it is a great media strategy to label people and make them out as nutters. It can only be freedom of speech if we have access to all information and then make up our minds. If we ban information it will just go underground.

9012 ▶▶▶ Maud Boggins, replying to Victoria, 8, #351 of 547 🔗

5G: Correct. It’s also a tactic to ensure these things actually DO “go underground”. It makes them easier to ridicule because once it’s underground they take on more outlandish content. So something quite basic ends up sounding ridiculous even if it’s and already proven beyond doubt to be important, small issues like the fact bees rather like to move house when their hives are placed next to a mobile phone mast. It’s OK though don’t worry, we only rely on them for world food production.

The 5G “conspiracy theories” weren’t “placed” anywhere. They emanated from around 200 prominent experts and scientists who had and still have legitimate concerns over the technology being rolled out and who lodged an appeal with the EU to express such concerns. I’m wading through the studies slowly, and have now read around 2,000 pages of research that is suggesting Covid will be like stubbing our toe compared to what’s afoot for nature and humanity once it’s everywhere….including the powerful
satellites above the earth.

You can all read it for yourselves and make up your own minds. Just don’t tell Michael Gove or Stephen Powis of SAGE….Or Facebook, or any friends if they’re armchair experts on any given subject. It will be carnage and they’ll threaten you with the men in the white van and straight jackets.

All signatories are listed so anyone can contact each and every scientist and tell them they are full of s**t and wrong to worry (although it may help if you tell them the reason why you know more than they do and offer counter studies to each of theirs). By now we should have seen the experts from both sides of the argument go head to head on television.

Most people don’t know this dissent within the scientific community exists, they just follow the MSM blindly because they’ve been made to feel ridiculous by the propaganda machine. Not a single person I’ve come across engaging in such ridicule knew about this amount of disquiet, out of either ignorance or for fear of feeling like an idiot.

I still haven’t made up my mind so I’m reading every single study conducted on both sides of the argument and it’s taking time. But I’ll be f****d if I’m going to let some censoring tech company or weaselly politician who can’t tell a good epidemiologist from a crap astrologer tell me I can’t look into the full debate about it. They can poke it.

Misinformation can only be so if it’s proven beyond all reasonable doubt the information that’s being put about is a falsehood. In the case of 5G compromising our immune systems that research hasn’t actually been carried out yet (and rightly so the argument 5G was “spreading” Covid was utterly ridiculous, and seized on by UK PLC to aid their own misinformation campaign by ensuring those who wanted to look into felt like total fools). Learn for yourself and make up your own minds.

http://www.5gappeal.eu/

There are hundreds of studies urging caution. The EU Reflex study in 2004 was one such report that concluded whilst EMFs didn’t cause disease more research was required. If we operate on the precautionary principle for climate change why don’t we for 5G? If this many scientists questioned an issue with our water supply Govt would be all over it. Unfortunately nowadays science is only funded if you’re about to conclude what the government wants to hear. Scientific research funding is as corrupt as you can get and I know of various people who have given it up to go and do something more useful like, in complete disillusionment.

None of us are insured for any health issues arising from having a 5G mast outside your front door. It’s not covered.

I used to cringe at mentioning the fact I feel 5G needs more research, but now I just ask people if they want to borrow my pile running into 4,000 pages showing there’s a potential threat, to the 100 I have managed to find showing it’s safe. At that point they usual sidle away realising they’ve done zero to fuel their own decision making and conclusions and followed blindly what they’re told.

We must all do the same and not feel embarrassed about it or be censored.

9043 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Maud Boggins, 2, #352 of 547 🔗

You are absolutely right; and 5G will be only a worsening (by a long way) of our exposure to pulsed EMR. To anyone who uses a mobile phone, especially a smartphone: Have you read the manufacturer’s small print in the T&C? If so, did you notice the bit where it says you should keep the handset away from your head? The distance varies; for an iPhone it is 5/8″. Why do you think Apple is covering itself in this way?

We are now bombarded with artificial electromagnetic radiation. They even provide wi-fi on the local buses, FFS. The health effects are *cumulative* and involve disruption of calcium metabolism at the cellular level. This is a public health nightmare that will explode when today’s children, who have been exposed since conception (and pulse EMR attacks sperm, by the way), have grown up.

Our electricity provider wanted to install a smart meter. I said no. They persisted. Eventually I reminded them that Lloyd’s of London have decided not to provide indemnity for any consequent health damage, whereupon, oddly enough, they went quiet.

9252 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Maud Boggins, #353 of 547 🔗

Wow Miss T. I salute you for your dedication to your research into 5G . I know it’s bad news but am not well-informed enough to tell someone why.

9001 ▶▶ James, replying to Oaks79, 6, #354 of 547 🔗

There are plenty of legitimate concerns about 5G, its roll out being so fast with little testing. Not to mention all the trees that are being cut down to ensure the signal (see Sheffield). It’s unsurprising that the MSM propoganda tars the people who are legitimately concerned about 5G as loons. There was also a clear decision to then link these loons to people also concerned about the stripping away of rights in the name of ‘Protecting The NHS’.

It’s the usual suspects paid by Big Food, Big Agra, Big Pharma and the like wanting us plebs to shut up and do what we’re told under the guise of Government and their MSM lapdogs.
This is all so tiring and predictable …… cui bono?

Not the small and medium businesses or the children or the people who are going to shudder when the bill comes in to be paid.

It’s the Corporations who’ve increased their shares, busily buying up real estate and inflating the wealth of already obscenely rich people.

Follow the money and realise that this has nothing to do with our safety and protection! If it was then they’d be far more diligent about 5G!

9024 ▶▶▶ Oaks79, replying to James, -1, #355 of 547 🔗

We had all the same nonsense with 3G, 4G and will when 6G gets rolled out.

9048 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Oaks79, 3, #356 of 547 🔗

Merely because they use the same capital letter does not make them “the same, only more”.

Different frequencies, different effects.

8936 Nobody2020, 4, #357 of 547 🔗

Interesting read comparing California & New York. Cuomo getting a lot of criticism for the high numbers of dead. Couple of quotes I found of note:

“Today, we can say that we have lost many of our brothers and sisters, but we haven’t lost anyone because they didn’t get the right and best health care that they could,” he said. “The way I sleep at night is I believe that we didn’t lose anyone that we could have saved, and that is the only solace when I look at these numbers and I look at this pain that has been created that has to be true.” – Cuomo

Of the models showing how earlier action might have spared lives, the Cuomo administration official insisted that the governor’s decisions had been guided by the data.

“We could have closed in November,” the official said. “When there were no cases. For nothing.”

“We followed the models,” he said. “We followed your goddamn models. All the models were wrong.”

Marc Lipsitch, a Harvard professor of epidemiology and the director of the Center for Communicable Disease Dynamics, created one of the first modeling tools used in the U.S. for the COVID-19 pandemic

In an interview, Lipsitch offered no opinion on New York’s actions, but emphasized that models are meant to be but one source of helpful information to guide policy makers. They don’t predict the future, and using them to do so is misguided.

“For any decision-maker to say they relied exclusively on models to make decisions about what to do and when and how,” he said, “is an abdication of responsibility.”

8939 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 41, #358 of 547 🔗

Heartening experience in Tesco Express just now. It’s a very busy shop, as it’s my back water town’s only petrol station and opens on a Sunday hours before any other retailer. Having boosted my confidence by ignoring lockdown last night and going to visit my brother, wife and kids, I’m feeling a little emboldened. When the nice check out lady (she and I chat every time I go in there) asked how I was, I said, ‘OK thanks, but had enough of this nonsense now, goodness me the economic pain that’s coming, we’re not thinking straight’.

The ENTIRE queue agreed with me! Cue cacophony of voices all chipping in about job losses, viruses escaping from chinese labs (did say cock up not conspiracy was my preferred explanation), naivete about how the economy works, massive over reaction, etc etc etc, it’s completely crazy, etc.

Result! I think there’s probably a silent majority out there, all raising an eyebrow at all this, and it’s not just us.

8941 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BecJT, 11, #359 of 547 🔗

All I can say is huzzah!!! I get the feeling people are slowly waking up to the fact that we are heading towards he abyss that’s far worse than this virus.

8956 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #360 of 547 🔗

Cheered me up, I must say! I’m even up for polite disagreement, I just want people to start talking about it. So I’m trying to really LISTEN to the answers, half the time people just want to be heard.

8947 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 15, #361 of 547 🔗

I think people are generally fearful of expressing these views publicly. It’s only when one person has the guts to speak out that they feel emboldened to agree.

8955 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 11, #362 of 547 🔗

I agree, people need permission that it’s OK to say something, plus I think generally the stereotype that we ‘don’t like making a fuss’ is largely true. People want to be sure you aren’t going to attack them, but listen. I’m trying to be cheery and breezy when I say it, conversational.

8974 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 4, #363 of 547 🔗

Its true. I don’t air my views publicly as I work with a close knit team and I can imagine that they will make my life unbearable when we return to work. Having been bullied at school for being different, I’ve come to the conclusion that its not worth it.

8984 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #364 of 547 🔗

There’s no point making your life miserable, I work for myself, I live in a rural place so no immediate neighbours, I’m away from the worst of it. But a bit of chit chat in a shop costs me nothing, and I’m pretty good at sticking up for myself, so I don’t mind if they don’t agree, as I can walk away and not engage them again.

9053 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BecJT, 6, #365 of 547 🔗

I believe it was Douglas Murray who said that its now only the self employed who have free speech and I think he’s right.

I’ve not engaged with my family for awhile now because I have been rather annoyed at their inability to accept other views and my mother’s well meaning but patronising advice. Because they live on the other side of the world its easy to walk away and play blind and deaf with their messages on social media.

9108 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #366 of 547 🔗

You haven’t met our local Environmental Health Officer then …!

8950 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to BecJT, 20, #367 of 547 🔗

All these people flocking outside, going to beaches etc are not stupid or selfish. They know the risk is actually quite low to them personally. It’s likely a lot of people don’t want to speak up because they don’t want the bother of having to defend themselves.

I was bold enough to say I don’t clap on a Thursday night and was instantly attacked for not being nice or normal and of questionable character. Luckily I’m thick skinned and intelligent enough to point out the stupidity of such accusations.

8957 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #368 of 547 🔗

Oh dear, yeah people are touchy about the NHS, I think it’s because they don’t want to feel foolish.

8982 ▶▶ Maud Boggins, replying to BecJT, 6, #369 of 547 🔗

Lots of dissent all over the country I’m finding. but the sheeple don’t like to be the first to express without a shepherd leading the way.

It’s a bit like that scene from The Full Monty where one bloke starts dancing in the dole queue and the others gradually and hilariously follow… until Tom Wilkinson is spinning round at the front. Here’s the clip for a bit of a Sunday morning giggle…

https://youtu.be/H4wuH9pSSRo

8998 ▶▶ paulito, replying to BecJT, 2, #370 of 547 🔗

Great to hear all these stories. It’s my feeling that in Spain people’s attention is turning more and more to the economic and social damage lockdowns are causing.

8942 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 50, #371 of 547 🔗

Lord Sumption’s article in the Sunday Times today:

Set us free from lockdown, ministers, and stop covering your backs
Jonathan Sumption
Sunday May 17 2020, 12.01am, The Sunday Times

The lesson of Covid-19 is brutally simple and applies generally to public regulation. Free people make mistakes and willingly take risks. If we hold politicians responsible for everything that goes wrong, they will take away our liberty so that nothing can go wrong. They will do this not for our protection against risk, but for their own protection against criticism.

The lockdown was originally justified as a temporary measure to spread coronavirus infections over a longer period. This was to allow time for the NHS’s critical care capacity to catch up. Hence the slogan “Protect the NHS”.

It was never much of a rationale. The NHS is there to protect us, not the other way round. How could its unpreparedness possibly justify depriving the entire UK population of its liberty, pushing us into the worst recession since the early 18th century, destroying millions of jobs and hundreds of thousands of businesses, piling up public and private debt on a crippling scale and undermining the education of our children?

Since the prime minister’s broadcast last Sunday, the lockdown has found a new rationale. The government has dropped “Protect the NHS” from its slogan. The reason is plain from the paper it published the following day. The NHS is not at risk.

This is partly because the government has done an outstanding job in increasing intensive care capacity, and partly because the threat to the NHS was always overstated. The critical care capacity of the NHS has nearly doubled since January, even without the 4,000 or more additional beds in seven temporary Nightingale hospitals. Around the top of the spike in infections, on April 10, 41% of NHS general acute beds were empty. Only 51% of acute beds were occupied by a Covid-19 patient. The current figure is 20%. The Nightingale hospitals stand empty. These are government figures.

Today, the lockdown is only about shielding us from the risk of infection. This raises serious questions about our relationship with the state. It is our business, not the state’s, to say what risks we will take with our own health. We are not fools or children needing to be told by ministers what is good for us, and forced by police officers to do it. We should not need to consult ministers, as the first member of the public to phone in to the daily press conference did, about whether she was allowed to hug her grandchildren.

The usual answer is that by going out and about we may infect other people. But that no longer works as an excuse for coercion. Those who do not want to run the risk of being infected can isolate themselves voluntarily. They will be no worse off than they are under the current compulsory regime. The rest of us can then get on with our lives.

The continuance of the lockdown is particularly odd given that in its latest paper the government accepts that, whatever we do, Covid-19 is likely to be with us long term. So unless it plans to keep the lockdown in place for ever, all that it achieves is to put off the moment when we have to face the risk anyway.

The prime minister told the House of Commons on Monday that his new so-called plan was workable because the British would use their common sense. In that case, why not allow them to do so by leaving the decisions to them?

Instead, we are resorting to law, which, because it requires exact definition, will always cover very many things that are perfectly harmless. Thus it was OK to go for a walk in the park but not to sunbathe. It is OK to drive to the Lake District but not to visit your second home. It is OK to meet one person but not two, and OK to do it in the front garden but not in the back. This kind of thing is arbitrary and absurd. It discredits the law as well as those who make it.

So how has the government ended up in this unsustainable position?

The answer is that, having originally embarked on a sensible policy that would have avoided a lockdown, it did a 180-degree turn on the afternoon of March 23, without thinking of the wider implications. It was in a blind panic provoked by Professor Neil Ferguson’s “reasonable worst case” of 510,000 deaths. Quite apart from the fact that a worst case is by definition an unlikely one, few scientists now support this figure. But it has had disastrous consequences. It pushed the government into making a decision that mocks our humanity and treats us all as mere tools of government policy.

The government terrified people into submission by giving the impression that Covid-19 was dangerous for everyone. It is not. It attacks people with serious vulnerabilities. By most estimates, between 0.5% and 0.75% of infected persons die. Of those, 87% are over 65 and at least 90% have multiple causes only one of which is Covid-19, according to the Office for National Statistics. The death rate for those under 50 is tiny. For the overwhelming majority, the symptoms are mild. Yet Matt Hancock solemnly intoned that “if you go out, people will die”, in what was surely the high point of governmental hype.

The prime minister’s broadcast was supposed to be his Churchillian moment. Instead, we beheld a man imprisoned by his own rhetoric and the logic of his past mistakes.

The lockdown is now all about protecting politicians’ backs. They are not wicked men, just timid ones, terrified of being blamed for deaths on their watch. But it is a wicked thing that they are doing.

8952 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #372 of 547 🔗

Lord Sumption making the fundamental points eloquently as always. As a lawyer, I still can’t believe he is the only senior member of the legal establishment to have the courage to speak out. Perhaps there are parallels with the scientific community in that the dissenting voices are either retired or belong to the small group that do not depend on government patronage to further their careers.

8962 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to GLT, 18, #373 of 547 🔗

It’s “dangerous” and “irresponsible” to speak out and make people less fearful and therefore less willing to accept restrictions. People will die.

These are the actual words that have been used by establishment figures from scientists to lawyers, politicians and editors.

It has been a powerful coercive force to silence dissent. You have to be pretty damned sure of your concerns to speak out, in the face of that.

8976 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, 24, #374 of 547 🔗

I broke lockdown last night to go and see my brother, sis in law and kids. We talked for hours. We were talking with the kids (teenagers) about the resistance during the war, the incredible risks ordinary citizens took in places like Occupied France (I’m a bit obsessed with the social history of the Wars). We were musing what we thought we would have done in that situation. I’ve often wondered what I’m made of, and how I’d react. Afterall I suppose women who slept with the Nazis to feed their kids, or neighbours who snitched in order to save their own backside were simply human too. All of us last night said ‘I’d be out there, creeping around in the dark blowing things up’.

Obviously going eight miles up the road to drink tea is hardly a massive act of rebellion, but I’m so appalled at what we’ve done, it cannot be allowed to stand. If that means I get arrested, or people hate me, I don’t care. Some things are fundamental.

8990 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 7, #375 of 547 🔗

“All of us last night said ‘I’d be out there, creeping around in the dark blowing things up’.”

One is entitled to be a little sceptical of such bold declarations in the absence of any danger of being called upon to live up to them, I think.

The evidence of the past few weeks is that most people today certainly are a bunch of fearful, easily herded cowards and more than willing to turn viciously on anyone rocking the boat. And my recollection of the history of the resistance in France, at least, is that there was little of it other than what was directly supported by us until the tide of war showed signs of turning. People mostly need some hope of victory before they are willing to commit.

9027 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, 4, #376 of 547 🔗

True, I know that, but I know what my first instinct to this was, and it was gut clenching anxiety that we’d ever do anything so extreme, that it was fundamentally wrong. I still feel like that now.

And I agree that that is what most people did, but I lived for five years in Greece, there they celebrate Oxi day, when Metaxas said ‘no’ to Mussolini. That little country changed the course of the war, at huge, incredible cost to themselves, that has largely been airbrushed out of history. The island I lived on was the only community in which all the jews survived the war, every single one, the entire island is celebrated at Holocaust memorial every year. They hid them, in farms, in the mountains. When the SS officer asked them for a list of every jew on the island, the Mayor and head priest handed him a list with just two names on it, their own. That island was bitterly punished. The oldies there still remember it. Greeks can be an exasperating bunch, but I really admire their pride in their own history, and even now their ‘F you’ attitude.

Same in France, people largely kept their heads down, but not everyone did, some people did do extraordinary things at great personal cost and no personal benefit to themselves. For example, their network for getting stranded airmen out of the country, over the mountains into Spain. I’d like to think that when faced with the alternative, I’d know what side I’m on.

9039 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, #377 of 547 🔗

I agree that there are many great examples of courage and even of doomed defiance in history.

But things always look simpler from a distance, I think. It’s not the place here to get too deep into history, but I would say one of the best books I have read on this period (and I have read an awful lot) was called “They thought they were free” by Milton Mayer.

9052 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, 2, #378 of 547 🔗

I totally share your worries that we are not immune, that much is abundantly clear, worryingly so. I’m also very interested in how it happened, particularly so soon after the great war. Complacency loomed rather large. I’ve also read a bit about what Germany did after the war, which was largely try to forget it happened, learning to remember was deeply resisted. Which is why I share your determination that when lockdown is over, we do not brush it under the carpet.

In any case, I’m glad I sat down with the young ‘uns last night, and actually just discussed things, and had that ‘what if’ conversation, that we think now that terrible things couldn’t happen, because we’re so affluent, and life is largely good. And they can (and they do all the time).

9079 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to BecJT, 3, #379 of 547 🔗

Some thoughts on your war comparison… After the war, many people across the world tried to get on with their lives in that they were keen to survive and build a new existence for themselves and that is true for both victors and perpetrators. Remembering, integrating, grieving, etc came later and Germany has never stopped doing it and has done more to “remember” than any other country that has ever committed genocide or war crimes in the last 75 years… it is part and parcel of the German education system and that is precisely the reason why Germans were out demonstrating against the lockdown from 1 April, while the high and mighty British Empire citizens of ours sat on their obese arses, drank beer and watched Netflix and felt good about themselves complying to the “new normal” by keeping calm and not asking questions. It is the reflection of an education system that heavily seeks to conform, be polite and well mannered versus encouraging critical thinking….

9090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Pebbles, 2, #380 of 547 🔗

Totally agree, but there’s an excellent film about Germany, called Labyrinth of Lies about how that started, v good https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth_of_Lies

8966 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to GLT, 3, #381 of 547 🔗

I was really very disappointed in Liberty’s line that ‘desperate times call for desperate measures’.

8977 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 9, #382 of 547 🔗

I might have been disappointed in Liberty, if I hadn’t watched them fail utterly to resist the tide of poisonous “hate speech” nonsense and the establishment of the disastrous idea that offending people or people “feeling threatened” without any actual substantive threat is something that must be balanced against freedom of speech, over the past few decades.

They were exactly as useless as I would have expected them to be.

8986 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, 4, #383 of 547 🔗

True, Shami lying through her teeth about anti semitism after she’d nailed her colours to the mast was also disappointing but illuminating.

8971 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to GLT, 3, #384 of 547 🔗

Correct. That is exactly how we got to the situation with the climate change bandwagon and ‘the science is settled’ – I know from first hand experience.

8954 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #385 of 547 🔗

Lots of positive comments underneath the article from Times readers. Calling for the ‘dream ticket’ of Lord Sumption and Matthew Syed for PM and inner circle!

8968 ▶▶ South West Skeptic, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #386 of 547 🔗

Lord Sumption & Toby Young – my vote for People of the Year 2020

9042 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to South West Skeptic, 5, #387 of 547 🔗

Hitchens was first ! A triumvirate !

8970 ▶▶ Maud Boggins, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #388 of 547 🔗

Excellent points brilliantly made Bart. Or as my ex-Para officer pal says (got an MC and highly experienced in casualty and evacuation logistics), “We’re sinking the nation just because the NHS is shite”. Totally agree.

If we were all given the choice of the following by God back in March I imagine most of the population would have chosen the latter:

a) NO LOCKDOWN: lose around 100,000 to Covid in the short term. Economy in tact and far quicker herd immunity (I say 100,000 for the sake of the nay sayers of the argument who’ll argue deaths without lockdown would have been far higher. We all know they wouldn’t have been, especially not a 100,000)

Or

b) LOCKDOWN: 50,000 Covid “deaths” inside 6 months, (again, nonsense as they’re misrecording like Billy-O and a bad year of flu can be 28,000), plus a further minimum 250,000 deaths and severe illnesses over the next few years caused by the effects of lockdown and the wrecked economy. Decades of recovery. Economy decimated and in deep recession for years to come. Thousands of long-standing family businesses with good names gone. Social cohesion and behaviour around others badly affected. Prospects for many at an all time low. Exponential levels of cancer, suicide, strokes, anxiety, stress, heart disease, obesity, child poverty. Further 1.2 million TB deaths worldwide.

So… I urge you all to ask as many people as possible in your social networks… a or b?

Watching people’s faces as they are desperate to tick “b” is a hoot! Pencil wavering as they sweat buckets expounding much “Yeah but no but…!”, and “Neil Ferguson said it would have been half a million!” . Just ask any lockdown supporters and see what you get ….. it’s a beautiful sight watching they’re faces drop and hearts sink as they realise this whole thing is a sham and the biggest over-reaction since a volcano under the Antarctic started melting a few plates of ice a few years back ….

8978 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Maud Boggins, 3, #389 of 547 🔗

Agree. It was such a well argued article that I actually commented below to thank him for his piece.

8994 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Maud Boggins, 6, #390 of 547 🔗

Great post. Regarding Flu, the difference between a ‘bad’ season and a ‘good’ season can be seen in the ONS death data for England & Wales: 28,330 (2014/15) vs 11,875 (2015/16). That is a difference of around 16k. Although the final data is not yet available we know that the 2019/20 and 2018/19 flu seasons have both been ‘good’. Therefore around 32k deaths were likely avoided all other things equal over the last two years. As it is also known that pandemics kill the weakest first, did anyone in government not reasonably conclude that a new virus was likely to kill at least 32k. It is now almost certainly the case that deaths over and above this figure are due to NHS actions – telling people to stay at home who should be in hospital (virus symptoms not cleared up after day 7), over-use of intubation, and, worst of all (in terms of numbers), discharging patients to care homes before determining they were CV negative.

8987 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #391 of 547 🔗

I’m really beginning to like Lord Sumption!

8997 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to CarrieAH, 8, #392 of 547 🔗

Not somebody you want to be cross-examined by, I’m told. Let’s hope he is being lined up to prosecute the case against lockdown.

9002 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #393 of 547 🔗

That would be very good news. Having someone of his level of experience and understanding of the ways the system works (and personal contacts and credibility), who really believes in the case, would be of huge value.

9280 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Mark, #394 of 547 🔗

Yes!

8989 ▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Bart Simpson, -17, #395 of 547 🔗

His opening proposition is “wrong”. People know how to take risks. They don’t. We’re quite poor at it. Look at smoking, seat belts & crash helmets. It took legislation to reduce totally avoidable deaths. For Covid we don’t quite know the risks – or we didn’t. I think we now have a basis and the risk profiles are very different for people. We can act on that. Just to say, “Let people take risks if they want” is not how developed societies work.

We needed the Nightingale Hospitals as a contingency and might still. To glibly say, “Look there was never a risk” is also silly. If we had a PPE stockpile when this started then may be we wouldn’t be in this mess. But it’s thinking like Sumpition’s that says, “Not needed”. Apparently the NHS was never at risk of getting over run. Ask the doctors and ask Italy. Why argue about this stuff? What undermine what is done?

The fact is we are fine with NHS capacity now, close on PPE and testing is getting there. The Nightingale Hospitals are there so we can lift the lockdown and if it does give a peak we can cope. They weren’t a waste they provide a safety net moving forward.

8996 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to BoneyKnee, 15, #396 of 547 🔗

I disagree with your point about people not knowing how to take risks. In your examples, I think people DO know they risks of smoking, seat belts and crash helmets. They’ve evaluated them and then decided that they’re either prepared to take the risk of whatever might befall them if they smoke, don’t wear a seat belt or don’t wear a crash helmet OR they stop smoking, always wear seat-belts and always wear crash helmets. Life is a risk and it is not possible to live it unless risks are taken. And in some cases, it’s the risks that make life worth living.

9000 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BoneyKnee, 24, #397 of 547 🔗

“We’re quite poor at it. Look at smoking, seat belts & crash helmets.”

This is just straightforwardly incorrect.

What you have done is applied your personal set of values to other people and judged their decisions by those values, but in fact those are your values and not theirs.

There might well be occasions where people are ignorant of the real extent of risks they take (arguably smoking, but I tend to the sceptical side on that), but overall the simple fact is that the utility of these acts, which is a large part of what must be weighed against the costs in terms of risk, is subjective.

For me, the utility of not being forced to wear a seatbelt when driving at low speeds on short journeys is overwhelmingly greater than the small increased risk of serious injury that I am running. It’s no business of yours to insist that I’m “wrong” because I don’t share your (imo cowardly) fear of running that small risk.

And no, you don’t get to say that because you (collectively) have imposed social healthcare on me (and forced me to pay for it as well), that now the risks I run are somehow your business as well, just because you choose to make it that we all pay collectively for healthcare. That’s evident bollocks.

“Just to say, “Let people take risks if they want” is not how developed societies work.”

Actually, it’s exactly how a free society is run, though as always there are people who prefer to control others’ behaviour and sometimes those people manage to impose their will on society in particular areas, often disastrously, usually using the kind of fallacious reasoning you have used here along with other arguments.

If your assertion were correct there would be no mountaineering, no contact sport, no parachuting, etc etc.

A large part of the reason we ended up in this disastrous lockdown was because too many people share your evidently high level of risk-aversion and willingness to impose it on everyone else.

9071 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 4, #398 of 547 🔗

*claps loudly*

9281 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Farinances, #399 of 547 🔗

Throws fish

9268 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #400 of 547 🔗

I think it’s reasonable to point out that not wearing a seat belt costs the state if you have an accident and need to be hospitalised. Seatbelts are mandatory to protect others, not you.

9872 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, #401 of 547 🔗

Nope, for the reason I pointed out in the original comment.

Maybe if, when socialised healthcare was brought in for the purpose of ensuring nobody misses out on medical care because he or she can’t afford it, the advocates had also pointed out that a corollary to voting for it would be that nobody in future would ever again have any right to choose to take a risk for himself or for herself, because an accident would represent a cost to the state, then perhaps you might have a case.

But that wasn’t the justification, and we do still have the right to choose to run risks (even if that right is sometimes wrongfully abrogated in practice, with the support of people who think like you do here).

9028 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BoneyKnee, 3, #402 of 547 🔗

We did have a stockpile of PPE. I’m really get fed up of this contempt of ‘people’ – do you include yourself in that category, or just the little people?

9030 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to BoneyKnee, 6, #403 of 547 🔗

Clearly, just because a government imposes legislation reducing freedom around smoking, seat belts and crash helmets doesn’t mean that “people don’t know how to take risks”.

You could reduce “totally avoidable deaths” to negligible if you took away all freedoms. That is the fatuous argument you seem to think is worth making. Yes, we know..!

9041 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to BoneyKnee, 3, #404 of 547 🔗

I know the risks of falling off my bike but I choose not to wear a cycling helmet

9050 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to BoneyKnee, 6, #405 of 547 🔗

The main reason why people are poor at assessing risk is that they’re never allowed to assess it for themselves. By legislating for everything the problem is merely compounded. This partly explains why so many people accepted what has been done without question. Those who have bothered to assess the situation for themselves know that the risk for the vast majority of people is low and can legitimately make a case that the lockdowns were disproportionate.

9076 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to BoneyKnee, 6, #406 of 547 🔗

Yes, let’s ask Italy which has a near collapse of its health service virtually every winter in the heavily polluted Po valley in the north and is full of elderly people suffering from flu and pneumonia. What about the south of Italy which has actually seen lower than average death rates recently? Let’s ask about the piles of coffins awaiting cremation then tell ourselves the reason why is that Italy doesn’t have the crematoria to cope because burial is the norm there.
Unfortunately the government looked at Italy and thought “That could be us”

9266 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BoneyKnee, 1, #407 of 547 🔗

Don’t forget, hospitals were overrun with flu cases in December and, while Brexit was a fairly effective smokescreen during the election, the Tories still got a lot of flack about the state of the NHS. Boris couldn’t afford to have that happen again. We’ve paid a huge price for Tory face-saving. “Protect the NHS” indeed!

9032 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #408 of 547 🔗

“If we hold politicians responsible for everything that goes wrong, they will take away our liberty so that nothing can go wrong.”

That is a great point, well made.

9073 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #409 of 547 🔗

That’s basically what has happened.

9068 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #410 of 547 🔗

❤ Is there not a some higher accolade than Lord we can give him?

9069 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 1, #411 of 547 🔗

None unfortunately but maybe we can petition Her Majesty to bestow on him the Order of the Garter? There’s a vacancy he can fill it.

9269 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, #412 of 547 🔗

Hahaha!

9081 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, #413 of 547 🔗

There’s a vacancy for God-Emperor in this country. I remember someone said they had one in the US.

9138 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, #414 of 547 🔗

I was hoping that could be me but would gladly relinquish for Sumpts

9276 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Bart Simpson, #415 of 547 🔗

We should have a write-in campaign next election, Jonathan Sumption for PM

8959 Mark, replying to Mark, 33, #416 of 547 🔗

As we start to move past the end of the beginning of this fight against what our own government and our fear-filled fellows have imposed on us, we should ensure that our goal is not merely to return to normal, but to ensure that this can never be done to us again.

Precedents have been created, that will be used again, if they are not utterly discredited and thoroughly demonised, as both morally unacceptable and in practical terms a costly disaster.

There should be no letup and no compromise on this.

9010 ▶▶ Scott G, replying to Mark, 10, #417 of 547 🔗

The ensuing economic fallout from this will ensure that no government will ever be stupid enough to switch off the economy again. This will go down as the biggest mistake any government has ever made.

9020 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Scott G, 11, #418 of 547 🔗

Even so there needs to be a legal mechanism to prevent them ever even trying.

9026 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Scott G, 5, #419 of 547 🔗

As Bec says, there needs to be a formal recognition of the point. Otherwise people will move on and forget, and the people responsible will pretend “mistakes were made” but the basic idea was ok. When it is done again it will be claimed that “it’s different this time”.

9034 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, -1, #420 of 547 🔗

Exactly. I suspect a lot of people here didn’t support Gina Miller, but she was right to ensure there was a brake on the executive. Ditto Boris shutting down parliament, when we’ve got headlines calling judges ‘enemies of the people’ I get a little twitchy no matter the subject matter. I hope the opposition have a moment of clarity too, they actually have a function in a democracy, which is to ensure the policy is right.

9038 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Scott G, 2, #421 of 547 🔗

Unless it was a coup, in which case it’s pretty successful so far …

8960 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 25, #422 of 547 🔗

Isn’t it weird how quickly Prof Neil Ferguson has disappeared from the headlines?

When he was “taken out”, I had no doubt that the scenario went something like this:

Deep State: Neil, we’re gonna have to let you go.

Neil: What?!

DS: Yeah, sorry mate. It’s the memes.

N: The memes? What “memes”?

DS: The ones that link you to Bill. You know, the money, the funding, the prime job roles you have
with his vaccine outfits.

N: But you said people wouldn’t figure that out. You said, “if they’re too dumb to understand what 1 metre is, there’s no way they’ll be able to figure out that I work for Bill.”

DS: Yeah, well…the thing is, we didn’t realise that, what with the proles not having work to go to, they’d use their spare time to start being “conspiracy theorists”, so…

N: Brilliant. So I get the chop because you couldn’t see the big picture. Great. “Oh, trust us, Neil, this is what we do best!”. That’s backfired, hasn’t it? I even had to pretend I caught the bloody virus. Another one of your bright ideas.

DS: Woah! Remember who you’re talking to, “Neil”. We got you that OBE after you killed all the cows, remember. Or have you forgotten what we did to Mr Kelly?

N: Alright, chill out, mate…

DS: Look, we still think you’re a top bloke. We haven’t forgotten what your dodgy computer code did for us. So we’re going to make this as easy for you as possible. You keep your OBE, well done, “Officer of the British Empire”. You keep your honourary doctorates, whatever. And we’ll let you choose how you get the boot, ok?

N: So I can choose the reason why I get the boot?

DS: Yes, Neil, You can choose.

N: Ooh, ok, that’s interesting. Erm…ok…lemme think.

DS: We haven’t got all day, Neil, we’ve got some fake Twitter accounts to set up.

N: Jesus…right…ok, I think I have it. I want to be having a steamy affair with a leggy blonde.

DS: A leggy blonde? A steamy affair?

N: Yeah, a leggy blonde. And I’ve been having her over to mine during lockdown for some rumpy-pumpy.

DS: Rumpy-pumpy…?

N: Yeah, steamy rumpy-pumpy. With a leggy blonde. And more than once, right?

DS: But Neil, look at you. Why would they believe some leggy blonde would be up for some extra-curricular bonking with you? You’re a funny looking little man with glasses.

N: Hey, don’t have a go at the glasses!

DS: We’re not, but it’s just…well…I mean, there’ only so much we can expect the plebs to believe.

N: Oh, right. So you can make them believe that 500,000 people are gonna die by using my shite computer model, but you can’t make them believe that I’m seen as “hot stuff” to a leggy blonde. Brilliant.

DS: Look, leave it with us, ok? A leggy blonde…FFS…Ok, we’ll get the word out.

8965 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark H, 7, #423 of 547 🔗

We’re living in a meme, social media has jumped off the internet and is now the framework in which our government conducts its business.

9005 ▶▶▶ Letmeout, replying to BecJT, 5, #424 of 547 🔗

Or an episode of Black Mirror!

9085 ▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Letmeout, 4, #425 of 547 🔗

So disappointed in Charlie Brooker.
His Wipe last Thursday was just mainstream BS, no critique.

9135 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to A Meshiea, #426 of 547 🔗

I had a titter at a few bits (the toilet roll bit was funny) but…… yeah. Charlie disappeared up Hollywood’s arsehole and now doesn’t care about challenging anything

9196 ▶▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to A Meshiea, #427 of 547 🔗

I like Black Mirror but I couldn’t bring myself to watch the virus-special Wipe when I saw the Graun had given it 5/5.

9275 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A Meshiea, #428 of 547 🔗

I had an inkling it might be from the promotional interview. Glad I didn’t waste my time watching!
HIGNFY has the same problem. I enjoy the sense of party but they have clearly been instructed to toe the party line and keep it toothless. So much for political satire!

9021 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mark H, #429 of 547 🔗

Brilliant!

9070 ▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Mark H, 5, #430 of 547 🔗

A Canadian friend of mine has an interesting theory on Ferguson… she compared him to the guy in “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man”. That guy went into third world countries trying to sell them the American economic (debt) model with their US loans by deliberately inflating the numbers of their economic profit if they took it up…
Ferguson has been there since day 1 to do the same for the multi billion dollar medical and vaccine industries, whether he is fully conscious of it, or just a gullible (now rich) idiot who was keen to climb the professional ladder with some “help”, who knows, but I thought that comparison was spot on…!

8972 BoneyKnee, replying to BoneyKnee, -13, #431 of 547 🔗

So we get an architect musing that may be the Chinese can’t design drains so may be the virus came from a lab. And this is presented as evidence. What next? I guy works down the chip shop swears he’s Elvis? And we are still all obsessed by Prof Ferguson who is now long gone. As was made clear in the briefings, SAGE use a variety of models to help them. Ferguson did not single-handedly shut down the world. Anyone who knows the USA will now that they would never go with a foreign analysis anyway.

As for the legal case, pointing to the past seems rather silly, “Well there was no NHS for Spanish Flu so why should they concern themselves with Covid now, you honour?” The major problem is that not just our government but many others including the USA came to similar conclusions. They did this as different politicians with independent analysis and similar democratic traditions.

8973 ▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to BoneyKnee, -16, #432 of 547 🔗

PS My concern is moving out of lockdown safely and properly weighting it’s major ill effects on the nation’s health. Banging on about how stupid Prof Ferguson is (world ranked expert) and taking legal action is all off point.

8980 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to BoneyKnee, 7, #433 of 547 🔗

“…we are still all obsessed by Prof Ferguson who is now long gone”

He’s still on the official list of SAGE participants:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/scientific-advisory-group-for-emergencies-sage-coronavirus-covid-19-response-membership/list-of-participants-of-sage-and-related-sub-groups

8985 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #434 of 547 🔗

And Boris mentioned Ferguson’s “500,000 dead” in his speech less than a week ago. Ferguson is not “long gone”. He is influencing government policy even now.

8992 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #435 of 547 🔗

They have to maintain the narrative. The justification for the lockdown was to avoid the worst case scenario. Nobody can actually prove that it wasn’t going to happen. That’s because 1% of a population of 65M will always work out as 650k. You can always argue that given enough time everyone can get infected and 650k people will die, assuming 1% mortality rate. It doesn’t matter if it takes 10 years or 100 years for everyone to get infected the argument can always be made that 1% of 65M is 650k.

To quote Knut Wittkowski – “It was not a model. It was the number of one per cent of all people infected dying”

9011 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nobody2020, #436 of 547 🔗

I absolutely agree. I find it amusing that the government dressed up a simplistic, lying assumption with a ‘model’ – because the assumption was too easy to cast doubt on – and then finds that the model and modeller are an international joke, with the world ripping the model apart instead. You’d have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.

9289 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Nobody2020, #437 of 547 🔗

Yes Boris saved half a million people from dying. No-one can prove he didn’t.

8995 ▶▶ GLT, replying to BoneyKnee, 10, #438 of 547 🔗

I am struggling to imagine a legal case that doesn’t ‘point to the past’. It is the essence of our legal system that we rely on principles established, refined and developed over centuries. This is what governs the network of relationships that you have with every other citizen every day. To dismiss the greatest attack on our freedom and liberty as past history is beyond naive.

9003 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to BoneyKnee, 6, #439 of 547 🔗

There a simpler explanation as to why governments all acted in the same way. People were going to die regardless as long as the virus was spreading. As soon as one country locked down it would be very hard for any country after that to not follow suit because as the death tolls rose people would be demanding to know why their country wasn’t following suit. The decisions were politically motivated.

9009 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #440 of 547 🔗

Yes, and politicians inherently fear being blamed for inaction more than for action, and rightly so, in terms of their personal interest.

Though that should not prevent us requiring someone in the office of Prime Minister to put national interest ahead of personal interest, and to put protecting liberty ahead of copying foreign despotic precedents, not to mention requiring competent cost/benefit analysis before taking hugely significant decisions.

8975 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 19, #441 of 547 🔗

BBC headline:

“PM accepts ‘frustration’ over lockdown rules”

A perfect example of what is described so well in the sidebar article here titled “COVID-19 and the infantilisation of dissent”. If through a process of rational analysis you think the government’s policies are wrong, or confusing, damaging, illegal or whatever, your views are dismissed as ‘frustration’ – a childish emotion.

9279 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, #442 of 547 🔗

Frustration leads to repressed anger which, once it finds an outlet it a very powerful force …..

8979 IanE, replying to IanE, 9, #443 of 547 🔗

Peter Hitchens out with another great (and terrifying – the future is now looking truly bleak) blog posting. As he notes, it cannot be long before the emergency budgets start coming out to try to deal with the disaster that must now unfold, here and around the world.

8981 ▶▶ IanE, replying to IanE, 2, #444 of 547 🔗
8993 ▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to IanE, -11, #445 of 547 🔗

It’s not that bleak. For starters, payday loans are at outrageous interest rates. These loans are not. The government is there to help out in an emergency. They could watch million upon millions become unemployed and the firms they work for collapse. The millions unemployed would all be on benefits anyway. Better to bridge. If it were just for a week everyone would be fine. The only issue is the time period of the support.

Yes it costs. Yes it has to be paid back. But think of the alternative – given that we’ve locked-down. A complete commercial and societal melt down.

As for his banging on about war debt it has no relevance. All that cash went out of the economy and was spent on destructive activities. The reverse of the loans.

9014 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to BoneyKnee, 6, #446 of 547 🔗

“All that cash went out of the economy and was spent on destructive activities. The reverse of the loans.”

Not the “reverse”, surely? That would require the money to be spent on “constructive” activities. In this case, the money is being spent on nothing at all – except keeping people at home drinking, eating pizza, playing video games and watching television until their brains fry.

9023 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #447 of 547 🔗

Exactly. If you spend money on building a bomb to drop it on some foreigners it’s gone from the economy apart from the wages themselves, but likewise if you spend money to pay someone to sit at home doing nothing it’s gone as well. In both cases the wages are still paid and are spent again, but the output is effectively zero.

From our point of view it’s wasted money unless the cause that is achieved is worthwhile. Bombing Germans at least allowed us to be on the winning side in a war. All the lockdown probably achieved was to move deaths around from one group to another.

9017 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to BoneyKnee, 15, #448 of 547 🔗

The alternative (and original intention before Boris became Chamberlain) was no lockdown, just social distancing (1 metre) plus protection of the elderly and vulnerable (you know – before the government got hospitals to send covid-infected oldies into care homes with no doctors, no medical care and even without palliative care to ease their death)!

9131 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BoneyKnee, 1, #449 of 547 🔗

Do you work for the ’77 Brigade’ ?

😂 😂 😂

9285 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #450 of 547 🔗

Funny, I was wondering the same thing!

9282 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #451 of 547 🔗

Wonderful. Thanks!

8999 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 18, #452 of 547 🔗

My question for gov.uk/ask:

Latest analysis if the official ONS figures for this “unprecedented once in a century pandemic” that requires total destruction of the world’s economies show that in England so far for under 60s with no diagnosed health problems a grand total of 238 people have died. Such a number begs the question – why is this never heard in the main stream media, government briefings and so on? The longer this continues the more obvious the whole “pandemic” is agenda, not act or reality, driven and that begs the question – why?

9016 ▶▶ Scott G, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #453 of 547 🔗

Covid was going through Lombardy like a bad burrito through a Mexican, lockdown via sheer panic. I think Macron has blown up the French economy in an attempt to try to force the Germans into debt mutualisation. The Germans were overly precautious, but dealt with it efficiently. We were going down the Swedish route until Ferguson’s ‘modelling’ which led to an onslaught from the media begging hysterically to lockdown and the Government meekly caving in. Sweden aside, the rest just sheepishly fell into line.

9167 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Scott G, 1, #454 of 547 🔗

I don’t think Macron’s bright enough to come up with any such devilish scheme. There he sat in that fancy golden room telling us we were all to stay at home and whenever he couldn’t think of anything else to say he would shout “Nous sommes en guerre!” Like Lenny Bruce, “you’re all gonna die!” Someone who has never seen a gun fired in anger, as my father who fought in Burma used to say. So no, I think the Germans can run rings round our dear President.

9006 paulito, replying to paulito, 17, #455 of 547 🔗

Just read another disgusting article about a baby dying of “Covid related Kawasaki disease”. How can a disease that existed before Covid be related to it. Are they so desperate to drag this bollocks out that they want us to believe a virus they told us was going to kill millions is also capable of time travel. Using the death of a baby to support their lies is one of the sickest things I’ve ever seen. My condolences to the parents who lost their baby and who are being exploited by the vilest lowlifes ever to draw breath.

9051 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to paulito, 4, #456 of 547 🔗

Terrible and sickening. Not every child who has Kawasaki disease even tests positive for Covid (antibody test or otherwise) so the link is still highly dubious. The disease is rare so of course the MSM has never trumpeted about it before.

9061 ▶▶ steve, replying to paulito, 5, #457 of 547 🔗

On a similar story. This is a beauty.
the headlines mentioned he died after testing positive for CV19 3 times in 3 sentences before he was being “treated” for dissecting aoritic annurism

i.e his major artery from his heart burst. FFS

Must have been the cough that finished him off.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-52686325

Then the kicked at the end was the comment

“A Just Giving page has been set up in his memory to raise money for Philippines Covid Aid.”

If it wasn’t so tragic it would be hilarious.

9013 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #458 of 547 🔗

From an independent website I read:

“WHISTLEBLOWER: There are only 2, 891 true coronavirus deaths in the U.S, the rest is inflated stats

I bet that sounds preposterous – that everything they put us through was an absolute hoax. But remember, these same people did Sandy Hook, 911, and other egregious scams including Windows 10 so let this be their last hurrah, they are getting old and will soon dissolve into the sand. Oh, and by the way, I mistakenly said they’d allow you to upgrade from Windows 8 to Windows 10 for “free” and though that’s part of the story, they even extended the offer to Windows 7. Why? Because Gates makes more money selling you out than actually selling a product. He’s not running a charity. ANYWAY – here it is:
Quote from PJ Media: Just How Inflated Are Coronavirus Death Counts, Exactly?
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/05/15/just-how-inflated-are-coronavirus-death-counts-exactly-n394897

“Last month, New York funeral home directors blew the whistle about inflated coronavirus death numbers. Death certificates mark “COVID-19” as the cause of death even when the deceased hadn’t tested positive for coronavirus, much less actually died of the virus.

https://www.projectveritas.com/news/breaking-funeral-directors-in-covid-19-epicenter-doubt-legitimacy-of-deaths/

This week, a San Diego county supervisor suggested the numbers are even more inflated.

“We’ve unfortunately had six pure, solely coronavirus deaths – six out of 3.3 million people, ” County Supervisor Jim Desmond said on the radio show Armstrong & Getty Extra Large Interviews, The San Diego Union-Tribune reported. San Diego County had reported roughly 190 deaths at the time – the current number is 200. Desmond went on to criticize California’s lockdown. “I mean, what number are we trying to get to with those odds. I mean, it’s incredible. We want to be safe, and we can do it, but unfortunately, it’s more about control than getting the economy going again and keeping people safe, ” he said.

And this one:

https://durangoherald.com/articles/324539 – alcohol poisoning listed as covid-19 death

My response: Certification Of Vaccination ID and “Contact Tracing”. “unfortunately, it’s more about control than getting the economy going again and keeping people safe.” BINGO.

And by the way, African nations are beginning to kick the WHO out after the president of Tanzania busted the WHO for saying fruit and bot flies test positive for the virus. That was an absolutely fabulous bust.”

The guy is called Jim Stone, gets censored heavily so recommend using a VPN and private browsing to find his website then use the direct IP address 82.221.208.129. Once you get the latest page a few times and are a regular visitor the “censors” tend to ignore you and you get through reasonably well after that.

I’m also trying to get from the son the story of a man in the US who drank 2 pints of acid to commit suicide. Listed as cover-19 on tend etch certificate. Family challenged it, went to the police to get an autopsy done and was refused help. If I get it will post it.

there is lots more independent research out there staring facts, figures, history, connections etc that show this is more than simpleminded panic and incompetence by governments following duff advice.

9174 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #459 of 547 🔗

This is a question I have raised before in the comments. Have there been instances where deaths have been classed as covid when there was no justification. If coronavirus is deadly and the modern equivalent of bubonic plague, why do the authorities need to dishonesty inflate the number dying from coronavirus?

9291 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #460 of 547 🔗

Thanks for collating this info.

9019 Maud Boggins, replying to Maud Boggins, 12, #461 of 547 🔗

UK weather set to reach 24 and bright sunshine this week…. and that NIMBY toss pot from Visit Cornwall is going to do precisely what from swaying me driving down there to swim naked off the Lizard at the mist beautiful beach in Britain? ZERO.

He can swivel.

9031 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Maud Boggins, 8, #462 of 547 🔗

Our local volunteer coastguard has now joined in the panic by asking people not to go out kayaking or windsurfing. Not because it is illegal but so that they “stay safe”. Morons.

9294 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hammer Onats, #463 of 547 🔗

The RNLI is a charity. It’s short of funds and running very lean at the moment. So this is a genuine case for staying safe. It’s OK saying they are volunteers but it costs real money to take the lifeboats out.

9037 ▶▶ South West Skeptic, replying to Maud Boggins, 5, #464 of 547 🔗

We’re planning trip to the beach with the kids on Wednesday. We live in Somerset so we have a choice of Dorset, Devon or Cornwall 🙂

9044 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to South West Skeptic, 2, #465 of 547 🔗

Good for you. Hope you all have a great time.

9046 ▶▶▶ Maud Boggins, replying to South West Skeptic, 1, #466 of 547 🔗

Ha ha! Go to all three in a week,
Bruv! Good on ya!

9045 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #467 of 547 🔗

Jumping in to the comments about anti-vaxxers if vaccines are so safe then why these schemes:

https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment – but pays out only if the child lives to 2nd birthday, explains why that child a few years ago had to die as he was coming close to that and his parents had proved the vaccine caused his problems

https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html – and there is also a law in the US that explicitly means you cannot sue the vaccine manufacturers for any injuries caused by their product, the government pays out

I don’t know about the UK but in the US there is a law that gives vaccine manufacturers full protection from any damages caused by vaccines, hence the scheme.

And why does Bill Gates want immunity from prosecution, starts about minute 16:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=233&v=o7A_cMpKm6w&feature=emb_logo

And why did he refuse to vaccinate his own children:

https://eraoflight.com/2019/01/24/bill-gates-and-the-worlds-elite-do-not-vaccinate-their-own-children/

2 quotes to leave you on:

by CS Lewis: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent busybodies.”

by Mahatma Ghandi: “Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth.”

9064 ▶▶ Maud Boggins, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #468 of 547 🔗

Careful Awkward… you don’t want to get confined to the Anti-Vaxx conspiracy theorists bin…. 😂

I’m all for MMR, I don’t have autism and still have my legs and my fertility, but the Vaccine Antichrist Kill Gates can shove his quantum dot tattoo or electronic chip thing right up his pea brosh, Like anyone else who wants to vaccinate against a mutating virus. Are we all completely stupid?

Anyone who says we’re not moving towards this nasty tech based vaccination megalomania within the next decade is going to look a bit of a cock when it’s starts being rolled out, aren’t they? I’m printing these denials off as I discover them as you can bet your bottom dollar many of them will be retracted.

This is a man who openly admits there are too many people in the world, particularly Africans. What? At the same time as he’s going around saving us all? Isn’t that a bit like Jimmy Saville taking sweets into Stoke Mandeville hospital?

Excellent article by the brilliant Vanessa Beeley’s at UK COLUMN below.

https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/who-controls-british-government-response-covid19-part-one

Read it and weep deniers.

9072 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Maud Boggins, 6, #469 of 547 🔗

Miss T – if that is all I get called I’m doing well, been called a lot worse over the years. Got into trouble all my life by asking why?

That’s why I questioned the lockdown, coronavirus etc from the start and found websites like this and other like minded people who question – breath of fresh air away from zombies and sheeple.

Makes me hard to brainwash and hypnotise – TV advertising doesn’t seem to work on me for some reason.

After watching my wife nearly die after having a recommended flu jab and the NHS not being interested and just saying “meh, it happens but so what?” I started looking into things.

Then 10 long years off her being sicker and sicker and the medical industry saying “so what, it’s all in her head” to find out about electromagnetic hypersensitivity and to start her improving makes me question basically everything I’m told.

Now go on the theory if the MSM, governments etc shout you down, call you names, refuse to debate etc then there is at least something to look into.

Be careful yourself, authority doesn’t like to be challenged openly.

Good thing though, now lots of stuff available out there if you search hard enough to research yourself if you feel the need not to follow the herd and want to make up your own mind on things.

9074 ▶▶▶▶ Maud Boggins, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #470 of 547 🔗

Agree. Keep pushing on AG.

9122 ▶▶▶▶ anti_corruption_tsar, replying to Awkward Git, #471 of 547 🔗

Couldn’t agree more Awkward Git. I’ve got called lots of things, with conspiracy theorist being the most common! And the thing is, you can show people all the evidence you’ve got and their eyes glaze over, as they simply cannot get beyond the idea that the government has not got your best interests at heart. I’ve been at the forefront of efforts to get the scandal of global corruption going all the way to 788 790 Finchley Road into the conscience of the mainstream over the past 4 years or so. I see more and more people seeing the light as time goes by, but we’re still a way off achieving critical mass. Hopefully this fake crisis will only accelerate that movement.

9163 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Maud Boggins, #472 of 547 🔗

I can’t bear to read Vanessa Beeley at the moment – it’s just too depressing.

9139 ▶▶ Stephen McMurray, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #473 of 547 🔗

Here is a link to the CDC’s own list of vaccine ingredients. Note aluminium which causes muscle weakness, Alzheimer’s and autoimmune disease, thimerosal (mercury) one of the most toxic elements on the planet, formaldehyde, which is carcinogenic, polysorbate 80 which causes infertility, MSG, an excitotoxin, gelatine, egg protein and casein – all of which can cause allergies, numerous potent antibiotics, squalene from sharks which when injected into a person causes automimmunity by the immune system attacking the human squalene in our bodies, quillaja saponoria which is so toxic it is not supposed to be in human vaccines, potent antibiotics, cow blood, canine kidney cells, monkey tissue, chicken cells, human diploid cells (aborted foetus). The idea that all this being injected into a child’s body is safe when their immune system hasn’t fully developed is ludicrous.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/b/excipient-table-2.pdf .

Apart from these ‘ingredients’ which are normally in vaccines they are regularly contaminated with all sorts of bacteria, viruses and heavy metals. An Italian study found 100% of 44 vaccines tested had contaminants in them.
http://medcraveonline.com/IJVV/IJVV-04-00072.pdfetc .
Vaccines never have and never will be safe.

9178 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Stephen McMurray, 2, #474 of 547 🔗

The proposed vaccine (well one of them) is only a genetically engineered chimpanzee virus. The same thing but for SARS1 only caused 75% of the monkeys they tried it on to nearly die when they were infected with SARS1.

But they’ve tried the new one on six monkeys and they were fine. Well for 7 days at least until the researchers killed them. What are you worried about?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/05/16/did-the-oxford-covid-vaccine-work-in-monkeys-not-really/

9299 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to guy153, #475 of 547 🔗

Yikes!

9049 A13, replying to A13, 17, #476 of 547 🔗

I just tried to explain to my Swedish friend why we are still in lockdown.
We are no longer flattening the curve. We are no longer saving NHS.
We are still in lockdown because the invisible enemy is still out there.
We can’t go back to living normal lives because there might be a second peak, but just maybe.
You just couldn’t make this shit up.

I was trying to find a movie analogy, and the only one that came up to my head is 10 Cloverfield Lane, where our government acts like John Goodman.
Does anyone know a better one?

9056 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to A13, 9, #477 of 547 🔗

Logun’s Run?
Total control of people living in a bubble where real freedom is outside but no one inside knows the truth and the elder generation get randomly picked for sacrifice to the cause of the collective.

9057 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to A Meshiea, 2, #478 of 547 🔗

Dark, but it could easily happen

9084 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to A13, 3, #479 of 547 🔗
9091 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #480 of 547 🔗

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏

Perfect. Also a great film (which everyone but me seems to hate)

9093 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Farinances, 1, #481 of 547 🔗

I thought it was a great film, too.

9148 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to A13, 2, #482 of 547 🔗

The feature film of Kazuo Ishiguro’s Never Let Me Go (excellent book and film) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXiRZhDEo8A

9190 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to BecJT, #483 of 547 🔗

Ooh, what a film. You’re right. In a way, that’s what the lockdown is doing…!!! Children are being sacrificed in a cold, calculating, cynical way in order to keep the old people going beyond their allotted time.

9161 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to A13, 2, #484 of 547 🔗

“Underground” by Kusturica, about people who still believe there’s a war going on up above.

9191 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Jane in France, #485 of 547 🔗

Your description reminds me of the plot of City of Ember…

9193 ▶▶▶ A13, replying to Jane in France, #486 of 547 🔗

That’s a brilliant analogy. Totally forgot about this movie!

9062 Awkward Git, #488 of 547 🔗

Very entertaining and amusing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KPbJ0-DxTc

9067 Mark, replying to Mark, 11, #489 of 547 🔗

‘They’re just not taking it seriously’: Life in the town with the highest infection rate in England

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/theyre-just-not-taking-it-seriously-life-in-the-town-with-the-highest-infection-rate-in-england/ar-BB14bnMO?ocid=ientp

“Known first for its steel, then later for submarine building and wind power, Barrow-in-Furness now has a notoriety for something it can’t be so proud of – the highest rates of coronavirus infections in the country.

But despite its relatively remote location it has three times the England and Wales average for the number of coronavirus diagnoses.
553 people have been positively diagnosed in Barrow, at a rate of 823.7 cases per 100,000 people.
The average in England is 244 cases per 100,000.
Local health experts say rigorous testing could explain the anomaly, with almost three times as many tests carried out in Barrow than in other parts of the North West.”

[Gee, ya think?]

“”From what I’ve seen people are keeping to the rules of staying two metres apart. I certainly feel safe here,” he says.”

[Well, that’s made all the difference then, obviously.]

“There are people going to the beach for barbecues and drinks, they’re just not taking it seriously. I think they think they’re immune to it, or that it’s not going to happen to them.”

[Except they are right and you are wrong – nobody’s going to be spreading this disease just by being on a beach.]

“Although their opinions vary on how both the community and the authorities have responded to the current crisis, they all agree on one thing; that the relaxation of lockdown restrictions should happen slowly.
And that a national “one size fits all” approach to ending the lockdown is not the way forward.”

[Exactly so. So let’s do away with the stupidity of “one size fits all” and let people choose what measures to take for themselves.]

9127 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 5, #490 of 547 🔗

Great example of the ‘if you test for it you’ll find it’ theory. Yes, you’ll find it, and your case numbers will be massive – despite the fact 90% of those cases are asymptomatic.

9077 Markus, 1, #491 of 547 🔗

Going out without masks in Qatar can get expensive. Up to 3 years jailtime and $55000 fine…

https://www.arabnews.com/node/1674676/middle-east

Also in Tšad and Morocco you end up in jail if you dare to go outside without a mask.

9078 Markus, 4, #492 of 547 🔗

This interview of Robert Kennedy Jr. is long but I think a must watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLi6ZrFp6vQ&t=105s

9080 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 3, #493 of 547 🔗

I see countries like Australia are now calling for an investigation into China’s “role” in all this. Interesting. As, if you go along this route, then you accept the whole “Covid-19 was a serious infection that caused all the deaths” and hence it can seem that you tacitly agree with lockdowns.

Sure, China has its failings but the deaths we are seeing here is not due to a virus getting out of control. It’s about policy and interventions in the economy having knock-on effects.

The use of Covid-19 as a broad brush for fear and panic is on our own governments and media, not China

9123 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to mhcp, #494 of 547 🔗

Yes.

And no.

Our gvts have been following china’s lead because they are too ballless to make their own way. Why are they following china’s lead? Because they lied about their figures and made out that their draconian lockdown worked.

Never mind about the coverup of the virus itself for many weeks (and subsequent co-option of the WHO to their cause) – this alone is cause for answers.

Yes, the virus is a nothingburger.
But what if it hadn’t been?

9154 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Farinances, 2, #495 of 547 🔗

You could have figured out how bad the virus was by being precise in testing and recognising what it was. As in empirical science. But instead the perception and fear preceded the lockdown so people were too scared to do any of this. Or were forced not to by policy. China had a hand in this but they don’t seem to have swayed Sweden or Belarus in the same way.

As for the virus not being a nothing burger? That’s always the risk and has been for many years. But we didn’t lockdown like this before.

9158 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to mhcp, #496 of 547 🔗

I completely agree with everything you said there.

But- I still think China is culpable for the wider spread of the virus whatever the reaction of our gvt has been. I’d still expect them to suffer intense scrutiny for their actions evem if Boris hadn’t locked us down. If I was Swedish, I’d still want China to answer some serious questions.

9082 James007, replying to James007, 37, #497 of 547 🔗

A test of mental resilience. 8 weeks locked up with a baby and a toddler with autism. Our son’s world fell apart in the first couple of weeks when all the things he loved doing were banned. Heartbreaking to see him become such a sad and lonely boy, and he doesnt have the language to understand where the adults that loved him have gone.

Can’t see our family as they are Covid puritans who wont do anything unless Boris says it ok. I cant guarantee to force him to “social distance” when he wants a hug someone, or to pass them a toy.

Also looking for a job, and messed up an interview for a job I really wanted, having had a bad few days, trying to keep everyone’s spirits up and comfort my wife.

Sorry to have a moan. There are thousands of families out there with far far worse problems and I’m thinking of them, and thankful for all the good things we have, and that things are going to get better.

I just dont think anyone thought about the affect that all this would have on mental health. All about the NHS being able to cope (which it obviously has – much better than it usually does in the crisis it normally has every winter). What about the people being able to cope? Locking us down has not made us safer.

I know there’s hope, and I hope those who believe in rational sensible measures win over the hysterics and panic mongers. God I hope things get better over the next few weeks, and the restrictions are eased.

And despite all of this nonsense I’ve still managed to catch a bloody cold!!!!

9086 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to James007, 1, #498 of 547 🔗

So sorry, sounds really tough. I hate to be one of those annoying people, but does he like animals? They don’t care about lockdown, and can really raise the spirits if you can find some to spend some time with. You might also take some cheer from the shoeing the children’s commissioner has given the government and the unions https://www.fenews.co.uk/press-releases/47531-children-s-commissioner-for-england-calls-for-government-and-teaching-unions-to-stop-squabbling

9137 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to BecJT, 2, #499 of 547 🔗

It’s good news about the children’s commissioner. I understand why people want the schools to remain closed. Fear is a powerful emotion. The government has encouraged fear through it’s extreme policy response.
We are all adults and we need to learn to live with risks. Life is not completely safe.
We cant hide from it until all the dangers have gone.

9099 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to James007, 6, #500 of 547 🔗

Very sorry to read what you are going through. Our mental health is fast becoming collateral damage to this virus and I fear that this will get even worse.

The only way I think to get through this is to carry on the best we can and believe that this too shall pass.

All the best and I hope that you and your family are well.

9102 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to James007, 7, #501 of 547 🔗

Your post is heartbreaking: how utterly wretched for you all. I think you are correct in your assessment that the wider consequences of this lockdown have not been thought through. Please take heart though that there are many, many others who share your views and that, hopefully, the tide will soon turn.

9129 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to kh1485, 6, #502 of 547 🔗

Thanks a lot for your messages and encouragement!

I have abstained from social media for a few years, but comments on this site have been very encouraging, spent a lot of time here reminding myself I’m one of many lovers of freedom, reason and of living life generally.
Will be allowed to love life again at some point

9118 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to James007, #503 of 547 🔗

Rejoice, you’ve prob got covid and can now claim ‘you thought you were immune’ when the police question you.
Oh wait.

9103 Nobody2020, 4, #504 of 547 🔗

Couple of days old but only just found this. I noted yesterday that Sweden is no longer being chastised in MSM. In fact we barely hear anything about Sweden these days.

https://catalyst.independent.org/2020/05/15/sweden-covid-19-strategy-reopening/

9104 Barney McGrew, 6, #505 of 547 🔗

A good article by Madsen Pirie:

“As lockdowns are lifted, we see people returning to beaches, restaurants and the office, to picnics and family gatherings. … Looking at their revealed preferences, which is what they do, rather than their expressed preferences, which is what they say to opinion pollsters and others, we find that they do what they did before. ”

https://thecritic.co.uk/this-too-shall-pass/

9105 Mimi, replying to Mimi, 21, #506 of 547 🔗

To share a positive experience from South Carolina: last night my husband and I went out to dinner! (We have yet to die of the COVID we surely caught having Mother’s Day lunch on a restaurant patio a week ago, or to learn how many we killed due to our irresponsibility in leaving the house, but just wait two weeks!!!!) Anyway, both children were out, and we thought it would be fun to act like normal adults again.

It WAS fun! What was most encouraging was that our town center was full of people out enjoying the lovely spring weather. There were very few masks in evidence, and lots of people standing less than six feet apart. Restaurants were full. The servers at our restaurant weren’t wearing masks, though they were wearing gloves. (Not sure how that helps if they don’t constantly change/wash them but whatever.) We sat indoors, at the oyster bar. The restaurant has had to limit seating, so patrons were spaced out, but it didn’t feel weird, just not as full as a Saturday would ordinarily be.

The servers were all overjoyed to be back at work, and just looking forward to further relaxation of restrictions. The young bartender confessed that time hung heavy on his hands while he sat in his apartment for two months. Video games and Netflix grew wearisome after a while, and there’s the matter of paying the bills. There was much talk of hair appointments, which can start tomorrow.

The one dystopian note was that the tv, instead of displaying normal sports, first showed us some otakus playing video football (so creepily realistic) and then a cornhole competition. (Look it up!) This is what we’ve come to!

I found this all very encouraging. Of course there are still many Henny Pennies hiding under their beds and shrieking on Facebook, but it appears that a large number of people are not afraid to leave their homes, and are more than happy to resume normal life. Social media and the MSM might give the impression that the entire world thinks perpetual lockdown is the only rational choice, but my experience last night suggests otherwise. And the more people who venture forth clearly unafraid, the more the nervous will be encouraged to try it themselves.

All cause for hope.

[Also, the kids – the 19-year-old was out driving an ambulance, and the 21-year-old had gotten together with his sports team buddies at a lake house. Like normal university students on holiday.]

9160 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Mimi, 2, #507 of 547 🔗

Good for you Mimi. let the cowards stay at home and let the rest of us enjoy our lives.

9114 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 17, #508 of 547 🔗

Incredible but true. Rod Liddle in The Spectator:

“If you think we are right to abandon or dilute lockdown now, then you should not have been in favour of it in the first place, because we are only about halfway through the process of restricting the spread of the virus. And if you thought we should not have been under lockdown in the first place, then you would be unmoved by five times the number of elderly and vulnerable people dying of this disease than is the case at present.

The clamour to abandon lockdown is not based upon rationality, but upon impatience and boredom and inconvenience. And the worrying thing for me is that the government is listening to that loud minority and not to the mass of people.”
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/in-defence-of-the-lockdown

Things like that stick. Utterly wrong, pathetic, and disingenuous. I may have enjoyed his vituperativeness in the past, but I know I will get a nauseous sensation when I see his name from now on.

9115 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #509 of 547 🔗

Oh no. Man down.
Sounds a lot like Piers Morgan doesn’t he?
Lol he’d hate that. But he does.

9125 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #510 of 547 🔗

Oh no, and there was me including him in my ‘Fantasy Question Time’ panel!

9198 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 2, #511 of 547 🔗

Well now if the Beeb luvvies challenge your selection you can say it’s “balanced”. It’s certainly closer to balanced than a typical BBC panel or audience…

9126 ▶▶ James007, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #512 of 547 🔗

It’s not where I expected Rod Liddle to land. Usually an independent thinker, and a lover of liberty.

“The clamour to abandon lockdown is not based upon rationality”

The opposite is true. Mad panic and hysteria is not rational. What is rational is demanding clear evidence before taling the biggest public policy gamble in history.

9136 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #513 of 547 🔗

What’s the odds an outside agency (beside The Spectator) is paying him?

9144 ▶▶ James007, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #514 of 547 🔗

“…unmoved by five times the number of elderly and vulnerable people dying of this disease than is the case at present”

1) provide evidence that that may have happened and that lockdown was the only way we could have prevented it

2) how about being moved by the deaths and damage caused by this policy?
(Eg: rising suicides amongst men under 40 according to an article I saw)

9147 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #515 of 547 🔗

Liddle goes in the bin along with Farage – two very effective communicators that I have liked and supported in the past because of their excellent stands on some crucial issues.

Just shows nobody’s right on everything all the time.

(Except myself, now that I come to think of it. Hmmm!)

9164 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #516 of 547 🔗

He’s always been a pillock in my opinion, and totally avoidable deaths of the elderly by NHS policy is why I am not supporting this madcap strategy.

9116 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 8, #517 of 547 🔗

This guy is keeping my spirits up …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNGiwFZZCRI

9153 ▶▶ James007, replying to kh1485, 4, #518 of 547 🔗

Love his police videos. I love the one about calling in an armed response team to disperse a VE day celebration, a criminal celebration which included orange juice “believed to be of the barley water variety”

9155 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to James007, 4, #519 of 547 🔗

I laughed so much at the picnic one, I was actually crying …(“the public using finger food as an offensive weapon …”)

9159 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to kh1485, 2, #520 of 547 🔗

Anythings’ possible in a world where they plan to treat our kids like escapees from a leper colony.

9156 ▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 6, #521 of 547 🔗

“The lockdown remains in place and has also been loosened. The government advice could not have been any clearer on that.”

“…but be aware that my grandfather did not defeat the Nazis s that you could enjoy civil liberties”

“Remember – if it weren’t for the heroes of World War 2 you’d be living under fascism right now”.

Ouch!

9186 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Mark, 3, #522 of 547 🔗

“Make no mistake: if you’re not on your doorstep ever Thursday, vigorously clapping the NHS, WE WILL GET YOU!”

9134 Mark, replying to Mark, 21, #523 of 547 🔗

Another great chart from the InProportion2 site:

http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/images/InProportion2_Chart3_200513.png

The blurb reads:

“England and Wales.

The following chart shows the proportion of weekly deaths that are due to Covid-19 in the context of total deaths in the same time period during 2000 – another bad year for flu. The worst weekly death total in 2020 is about 8% worse than the worst week in 2000 – but bear in mind that in this period the UK population has grown by around 6.5% (58.8m to 67.8m in 2020).”

In fact that growth from 58.8m to 67.8m is 11% (9 million extra people in just 20 years!) rather than the 6.5% they suggest, but those are UK figures. The ONS has the population for England and Wales growing from 52,140,000 in 2000 to 59,439,840 in mid-2019, giving a growth of 14% (!) over that short period. All this means that the peak of the winter death toll in 2000 as a percentage of population was higher than the peak of the death toll for the covid19 epidemic in 2020.

On these figures the peak weekly death toll in 2000 was 0.039% for England and Wales. In 2020 it was 0.038%.

Puts it in a proper perspective. Covid19 is still what it was always likely to be: a glorified flu epidemic. Granted not all the excess deaths in the winter peak are flu, but then again, not all the excess deaths now are covid, many are due to the lockdown’s pernicious effects.

9149 ▶▶ steve, replying to Mark, 8, #524 of 547 🔗

The Inproportion website is very good.

They are very interesting statistics. When you factor in the BMJ report here
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1931

They are basically saying of the excess deaths this year approx 20000 of them have no mention of CV on the death certificate, the implication being approx 20000 people died
BECAUSE of the lockdown. Being either unable to or too scared to go to hospital.
Not to mention the poor elderly care home residents kicked out of hospital toll back to the Care homes where they were basically locked up in the rooms.

Shameful situation

9157 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to steve, 11, #525 of 547 🔗

The government will clearly know this but they can’t openly admit it. People have died as a direct result of their actions, they’ve wrecked the economy and have nothing but a horoscope to show that lives have been saved.

There’s every indication that the numbers of dead would have been similar to what they are without the lockdown.

But to admit they got it may have got it wrong would be political suicide.

9170 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 9, #527 of 547 🔗

Lord Sumption just interviewed on the BBC. He pulled no punches – watch on catch up if you can. Starts at 4pm.

9172 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Hammer Onats, #528 of 547 🔗

BBC 1?

9173 ▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to GLT, #529 of 547 🔗

The BBC news channel.

9179 ▶▶▶▶ GLT, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #530 of 547 🔗

Thanks. Yes he was good, especially his comeback to the interviewer.

9185 ▶▶▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to GLT, 2, #531 of 547 🔗

Yes, she didn’t like it up her, as Cpl Jones was fond of saying.

9187 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Hammer Onats, #532 of 547 🔗

Do you have a link for it? I can’t seem to find it (I’m not very good at catch-up television!)

9189 ▶▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Edna, 1, #533 of 547 🔗

look on iPlayer and you will see BBC News Special. It is near the beginning of this at 4pm

9192 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to DocRC, #534 of 547 🔗

Ah! Ok, thank you!

9188 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Hammer Onats, 5, #535 of 547 🔗

Very cogent as always. I must confess that I couldn’t answer truthfully in the negative the question she asked him about whether he had observed the lockdown! Drinks on the terrace last evening with our ex-neighbours. Wonder where Gina Miller and her like are? Surely mass imprisonment of the British people for 8 weeks would upset them- unless it was mass imprisonment in the United States of Europe of course! Anyone know what’s happened to the legal challenge?

9209 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to DocRC, #536 of 547 🔗

Going strong on crowdjustice.com. Fund getting close to its target, but still plenty of time to contribute!

9195 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Hammer Onats, 10, #537 of 547 🔗

Excellent stuff! Lord Sumption for God-Emperor, I say…

“We have never lived in a risk-free world and we are never going to live in a risk-free world”

“If the pubs were open now I would go to a crowded pub with no hesitation”

“We are entitled to take risks with our own lives, especially when basically life is only worth living if you are prepared to engage in social activities which inevitably involve risk. That is part of life.”

9210 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 3, #538 of 547 🔗

See you in the pub, Jonathan, I’ll buy you a drink and we’ll discuss the 100 Years’ War, back in the Middle Ages when people faced the Black Death and really had something to worry about.

9323 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hammer Onats, #540 of 547 🔗

Just watched it. He was awesome!

9181 clivepinder, 2, #541 of 547 🔗

Fortunate enough to own a home in Tanzania. I am as sceptical about President Magufuli intentions and credentials as I am about ‘Lockdowns’ so would avoid holding him up as an exemplar of a lockdown skeptic. This is the same man who sent a plane to Mauritius to acquire a plane load of a herbal tonic drink he said would be both a cure and a prophylactic for CV19. His government is anti- LGBT and has cancelled funding and care for HIV, as well as speaking out against contraception. He is on his way to becoming another Mugabe. Lockdown Skeptics has a healthy level of evidence and support for its position……advocating for people like Magufuli will undermine that.

9201 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 8, #542 of 547 🔗

Great interview with Lord Sumption on BBC:

https://youtu.be/fayeKcjnDNE

9214 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to RDawg, 2, #543 of 547 🔗

I am truly loving this Lord – I never thought I would say that! He has such a lot of true common sense.

9205 paulito, 3, #544 of 547 🔗

Spanish Government has announced that masks are going to be compulsory in public. In my province today number of new cases – 3, patients in intensive care – 1, deaths – 0.

9496 assoc, replying to assoc, #545 of 547 🔗

If it is true that the Chinese stole the design of a French containment lab for their Wuhan facility then I think this fact needs to be more widely known.

9497 ▶▶ A13, replying to assoc, #546 of 547 🔗

It’s nothing new. Chinese have no respect for intellectual property. They copy products, the whole manufacturing processes, factory plans, etc across many industries.

9498 ▶▶▶ A13, replying to A13, #547 of 547 🔗

And I don’t mean to sound xenophobic – it’s a well known fact.

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