2020-05-22

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/05/22/latest-news-38/
Published2020-05-22T16:01:41
Last updated2020-05-23T15:45:01
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:03
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12249 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 69, #1 of 793 🔗

Boris, Hancock and Gove need to swing for this.

12270 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to AidanR, 52, #2 of 793 🔗

Boris is now pretty much certain to take Eden’s title as worst ever UK Prime Minster isn’t he?

That will be his legacy.

12281 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Invunche, 37, #3 of 793 🔗

And I’d have to add Sunak as the worst chancellor. He’s been even more profligate than Brown, and that’s saying something.

12289 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Lms23, 27, #4 of 793 🔗

It’s true isn’t it… in one fell swoop he’s dwarfed Brown’s entire 13 years of grotesque largesse.

12329 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Lms23, 14, #5 of 793 🔗

Sunak is another Goldman place man. He will break ranks more obviously soon – Lloyd Blankfein broke ranks in calling for an ending of lockdown in US a month ago. Just waiting for the ‘signal’ from Jim O’Neill at this end!

12335 ▶▶▶▶ A13, replying to Lms23, 5, #6 of 793 🔗

I can’t believe some of the LinkedIn posts I’m seeing on my feed. Sunak is getting so much praise there. People say shit like “Amazing job Rishi Sunak, the future prime minister”

12391 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to A13, 1, #7 of 793 🔗

The bookies have him as next PM, by a huge margin.

12568 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to A13, 3, #8 of 793 🔗

Sunak PM? Hope not. I’d rather die of C19.

12800 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to A13, 1, #9 of 793 🔗

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is an army of internet government trolls who spend all day praising the actions of government.

12891 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bella Donna, #10 of 793 🔗

Apparently they are military and they call them 77th brigade. Have no idea how true this is – isn’t that what MI5/6 are supposed to be for? (or are the spies all on furlough 😂 )

12900 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hopeful, replying to Farinances, #11 of 793 🔗

Take a look at ukcolumn news for information on 77brigade, their place within the Cabinet Office, and the names of those involved in possibly really being the ones running this country.

12902 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hopeful, replying to Bella Donna, #12 of 793 🔗

Yes there is such an army. It is called 77 brigade. It’s leaders pride themselves on tackling disinformation and misinformation particularly about covid19. They are actively spying on the domestic population. Allegedly some within it find this ‘fun’.

12284 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Invunche, 22, #13 of 793 🔗

God, I even miss Theresa May.

12296 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to James007, 8, #14 of 793 🔗

Yep, even that crossed my mind also!

12310 ▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 34, #15 of 793 🔗

Imagine if Johnson had just beefed up “flatten the curve”. Free hand sanitizer, new cleaning and hygiene rules etc..
He could have done a great “Fight them on the beaches speech” about how we are British and nothing will take away our freedom…

12437 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to James007, 16, #16 of 793 🔗

Sadly he did not go that route and we are going to pay the price for his actions. My wife signed on the dole today, she lost her job a month ago and has been searching every day for that last month. She is 55 and whilst she has had periods between jobs, we knew we get through a period with her out of work. This time it looks very different.

12441 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #17 of 793 🔗

Sorry about your wife, that’s tough.

12461 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to BecJT, 5, #18 of 793 🔗

Thanks BecJT, we are lucky, I am still working, and our outgoing are fairly low. We are just annoyed that we find The UK in this mess.

12671 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #19 of 793 🔗

Sorry to hear that. I wish you/her every success in finding new employment. This really isn’t fair.

12819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dave #KBF, #20 of 793 🔗

Very sorry to hear about your wife. Hope that things will improve.

12498 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to James007, 4, #21 of 793 🔗

There’s just a wider agenda at play here. Keep on saying it, keep your eye on what’s happening in other countries. It’s like a worldwide chess game. I know some folk in the phillipines, and there’s was a serious military lockdown with no dissent tolerated… And a laughably small number of deaths. Things are apparently reaching biking point though

12372 ▶▶▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #22 of 793 🔗

She’s got a massive hard on for total surveillance state monitoring. God knows what she would have pushed through.

12334 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to James007, 11, #23 of 793 🔗

I read somewhere that Johnson would have been good at sorting the Brexit deal and May would have been good at dealing with the coronavirus crisis and in a cruel twist of fate, their missions were swapped and both went tits up.

12343 ▶▶▶▶▶ A13, replying to Poppy, 6, #24 of 793 🔗

I just can’t imagine her doing daily briefing…You might be right though, it’s hard to do a worse job than Bojo

12373 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Poppy, 11, #25 of 793 🔗

Nah, I’m not having that… Everything Theresa May ever touched turned to shit.

12336 ▶▶▶▶ A13, replying to James007, 3, #26 of 793 🔗

You gotta be kidding me. Not her.

12493 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to James007, 2, #27 of 793 🔗

One of the early politicians to come out to criticise the lockdown have to say. But again, don’t trust her, she had her time in power and is on the way down, so what did she have to lose? They’re all ambitious scrotes, after all

12533 ▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to James007, 2, #28 of 793 🔗

Sorry can’t agree to that. That woman makes me shudder

12803 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to steve, #29 of 793 🔗

Boris and May are not that dissimilar both excruciatingly useless at the job, both make the wrong decisions both are embarrassing and both hide away whenever possible. Only their genders differ.

12314 ▶▶▶ Adele Bull, replying to Invunche, 24, #30 of 793 🔗

I bloody voted for this man! (I had hoped he would “get Brexit done”) But where is he in our hour if need? Where’s the leadership? I could do a better job than him!

12805 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Adele Bull, 1, #31 of 793 🔗

We all could do better!

12317 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Invunche, 8, #32 of 793 🔗

Oh I don’t know. I chuckled when I heard Boris leadership bid HQ was located in Lord North Street. Of Lord North someone once said “his indolence was a barrier to efficient crisis management”. How true,once again

12338 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Invunche, 8, #33 of 793 🔗

May will still take some beating

12320 ▶▶ Biker, replying to AidanR, 2, #34 of 793 🔗

Fat chance the councils have closed all the play parks

12369 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to AidanR, 1, #35 of 793 🔗

A thorough investigation would surely add many names to this list.

12402 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #36 of 793 🔗

Oh they’d love that… dilute the blame, muddy the water… fire a few civil servants (while promising them seats in the Lords so they’ll go quietly)… saunter away from the whole mess, whistling nonchalently.

I can see it happening just like that.

12442 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to AidanR, 7, #37 of 793 🔗

I am not suggesting it should dilute the blame but I think there are many many people that need to be held to account, their motivations forensically analysed, their conflicts of interest followed. Normally I am against capital punishment but I think the crime here is of such a size that it should temporarily be reintroduced for the purpose of prosecuting the crimes that are currently being perpetrated against the British people.

The actions of our government and its advisers have destroyed so many lives, led to so many deaths and with so many to come that they must all be held to account. If you are giving advice to the government which is leading to death and you have a serious conflict of interest while doing so how can we overlook this.

12496 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Saved To Death, 8, #38 of 793 🔗

I think Chris Whitty has subtly made it clear that he’s sick of trotting out the party line because he disagrees with it but Vallance seems more snakelike every time we see him.

12517 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Cheezilla, #39 of 793 🔗

Some of the people involved maybe acting under duress and maybe even genuinely in fear for their lives. This should be uncovered given a sufficiently thorough investigation. I think their trials should certainly be held to a much higher standard then our collective trial has been.

12811 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #40 of 793 🔗

I am tweeting Chris Whitty every day. I know he knows this is all rubbish but he has a duty to stand up and say so just like the rest of them.
Boris has to come out and own this bastard baby of his.

12530 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #41 of 793 🔗

Death is too good for the likes of Ferguson, et al.

What I would propose is in lieu of capital punishment, those found guilty should be made to reenact Sisyphus for the rest of their lives with us the public allowed to pelt them with stones, rubbish, rotten food and milkshakes.

12487 ▶▶ ianp, replying to AidanR, 8, #42 of 793 🔗

Ok, devils advocate here, am a regular poster so you know how much I hate this whole situation.

Alright, I have been saying Boris has been on our side but I am seriously wavering now.

My thinking was always about looking at what the rest of the world was doing, you got to do that to be fair. When has this ever just been UK only decision?. How much pressure there was from Msm to lockdown when the rest of EU had done so?. Why are we absolving the disgusting MSM support of fear fear fear just because a few of them are coming out of their shells with a few critical articles now, the snakes. They knew lockdown was bollocks all along and said nothing.

And… The fact that there is NO compulsory mask wearing and the weirdest loosest lockdown imaginable compared to rest of Europe isn’t it? Nobody had to produce ‘papers’ to be out did they? Ok you have Sweden of course, those cool calm swedes – but note the masks there – my ultimate hatred symbol.

Finally, the easing of lockdown a couple of weeks ago, basically meant 90% of it was unenforceable right? Which other country has done that – for the most part we the people, can choose.

Something is definitely afoot worldwide, one big political game being played now for the technological future. Am sure of that.

And ask yourself if we had corbyn or starmer in charge… Note the more left you go (Jimmy krankie up there is Scotland) the greater the lockdownista. Just look at those trade unions at the moment… Signing their own death warrant with blocking schools reopening.

It’s an absolute mess to be sure, and the government are now in a political maze, but it could have been worse, hard as that is to imagine.

Enough defending them (I still can’t stand that Hancock twat) … I feel dirty for doing so, but had to put it out there

12525 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to ianp, 17, #43 of 793 🔗

If my child hurt another and told me the reason he did it was because he saw others doing the same thing I would explain to him that this is not acceptable and only he is responsible for his actions. Just because other people are doing something it does not make it OK.

The fact that other countries were taking extreme measures does not absolve our government and its advisers of responsibility for its actions in any way. When we went into lockdown the credible science being published was already telling us that this virus was about as dangerous as the flu. There was no evidence to support this action at all. Prof Furgesons models were not credible science. Hysterics in the MSN is not credible science.

12573 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Saved To Death, 5, #44 of 793 🔗

Sure, I know that. But something like this on a worldwide scale smells like an agenda here. 2/3 possible paths. Everyone has signed up to something.

It was all inevitable.

And be very aware of being manipulated by MSM into focusing only on UK events, they were the ones pushing the fear for months on end yes?. Be very suspicious of motives now.

Yes, because it hurts us a lot more as it’s personal, we live here but the way this goes will be influenced as much by the rest of the world as anything undertaken here.

Keep eyes open on worldwide, from there we’ll find the endgame that all the power brokers have in store.

12635 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to ianp, 2, #45 of 793 🔗

I understand what you are saying but what really can we do about that. We as UK citizens must hold our government to account that is our duty we can only hope the citizens of other countries will do the same.

Perhaps if we did that successfully and other countries did not the power brokers would arrange for the formal invasion or even nuclear attack of our country – its a possibility but what else do we do, not hold our government to account for its crimes? Wait to be liberated?

12592 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to ianp, 4, #46 of 793 🔗

Got an email from my union today, here is a quote from it:

“Today top scientists from the respected Independent SAGE group have released a report saying it is not safe for schools to open more widely on June 1.

The report concludes that delaying by two weeks – to June 15 – would halve the risks to children, while waiting until September would be even less risky. The scientists are clear that June 1 is not safe.

Can you share our messages to make sure everyone knows?”

Wait until schools are told the DfE is pulling funding as they don’t need as many staff to provide education going forward. I can see staff reductions in school from September, budgets have been tight in recent times, what better way of saving money, cut the staffing costs.

12782 ▶▶▶▶ Anonymous, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #47 of 793 🔗

Does SAGE not point out that if schools are ever reopen there’s a risk from flu each year, and that can be more lethal to children than Covid-19?

12860 ▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to Dave #KBF, #48 of 793 🔗

Independent Sage group is hardly independent

Among its membership are actual communists, Labour Party donors, activists, Corbynistas, “anti-Zionists”, Brexit conspiracy theorists and even a former Greek MP. Guido brings you an extraordinary rundown of eight members of the twelve strong committee here…

https://order-order.com/2020/05/04/not-independent-activist-stuffed-shadow-sage/

12802 ▶▶▶ Annabel Andrew, replying to ianp, 3, #49 of 793 🔗

I agree with you. I keep hoping that there is a plan- maybe it’s to create such hatred of the Unions who are scuppering everything that we’ll all cheer when Boris does a Maggie? Or am being too hopeful? Was also thinking that Cummings trip was a signal- was it a cowardly way of getting people to say” right, sod it! If he’s going out, I’m going out” and so avoid having to officially end the lockdown and let it happen naturally – as I think it probably is.

Masks also my pet hate- it makes me feel physically sick to think that we may be required to wear one or that someone would chose to wear one. And please can we just be done with bloody social distancing!

I wish I had used a ‘sue denim’ as I could post all the things I have done in lockdown that I ‘shouldn’t’ have.

Disagree with posters above on Rishi- I actually think he was against this from the start and would make an excellent PM.

As for quarantining on return from abroad- what pillock thought that was even do-able? All that will happen is that private sector will ignore it and the public sector will take even more time off on full pay!

12564 ▶▶ chris c, replying to AidanR, 2, #50 of 793 🔗

Red hot poker

12566 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to chris c, 1, #51 of 793 🔗

I’d watch that on Pay-per-view

12989 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to AidanR, #52 of 793 🔗

The court case next week could be a get out of jail free card for Boris
If I was a betting man I’d put money on them taking a dive in the first
It’s open to them to make a half hearted defence of the science and lose the case. This could be a win/win. The ‘scientists’ will not be there to defend themselves. The blame will be heaped on the ‘scientists’
Boris will have had the decision made for him and be immune (sorry) from any post lockdown blame game
Then we will have a year of we can’t have a public enquiry until the crises is over. This will followed by five years of ‘ I can’t answer that it’s a matter for the public enquiry’.
That should see him through to after the next general election

13122 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to AidanR, 2, #53 of 793 🔗

650 MPs need to hang

12252 Basileus, replying to Basileus, 8, #54 of 793 🔗

You were discussing a few days ago whether it might be a good idea to set up a sceptic alternative to the government daily briefing. I wonder whether you might have considered teaming up with UKColumn? They have the facilities to do all the required technology and are producing three programmes a week already. It would not be much work for them as you would be providing most of the content. Any thoughts?

12277 ▶▶ A13, replying to Basileus, 2, #55 of 793 🔗

In my opinion, UK column is a step too far into conspiracy theory land. I might be wrong, but that’s the vibe they give.

12283 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to A13, 14, #56 of 793 🔗

Haven’t you noticed? We’re living through a giant conspiracy theory right now.

12285 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to A13, 17, #57 of 793 🔗

But are they wrong?
So far, the “conspiracy theorists” and those peddling “misinformation” seem to be more accurate in their predictions and information than the official sources.

12308 ▶▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Lms23, 16, #58 of 793 🔗

To me the people supporting this lockdown are the conspiracy theorists, such are the giant leaps in faith and logic you have to make to justify it any way at all.

12339 ▶▶▶▶ A13, replying to Lms23, 4, #59 of 793 🔗

It’s not the case of if they are right or wrong.
It’s a polarizing topic and if you want to reach a broader audience you need to try to deliver it through a more balanced platform.
Otherwise, we’re just amplifying the noise in our echo chamber.

12374 ▶▶▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to A13, 5, #60 of 793 🔗

All that needs to be done is to present the numbers in context and in proportion. Don’t add any editorial and let people evaluate the risk for themselves. It would require the public to engage their analytical brain of which the MSM has robbed them over the last two decades; it probably wouldn’t work.

12390 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A13, replying to South Coast Worker, 3, #61 of 793 🔗

I don’t think it’s as easy as presenting the numbers in context and proportion. If that was the case, you would have more lockdown sceptics.
All I’m saying is that it’s better to be not associated with conspiracy theorists if you want to reach a broader audience.

12579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A13, 2, #62 of 793 🔗

I appreciate your point of view, A13.

However the numbers, in context and proportion, have never been presented to the vast majority of the population.

The decision is between associating with the tinfoils (I’m a longtime member) or not getting the facts out to people.

12785 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Anonymous, replying to South Coast Worker, 1, #63 of 793 🔗

The media haven’t robbed people’s ability to think analytically. Most people aren’t good at it, and we get the type of media people prefer to consume.

12812 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Anonymous, 1, #64 of 793 🔗

Most people are actually very good at COMMON SENSE (you don’t have be analytically minded to have this). Trouble is they haven’t been given all the facts with which to exercise some. They’ve been treated like fools and children- lo and behold, they’ve turned into them. If you start from the point of “people are thick, the media are only responding to how thick they are”, thickness is inevitable. People will get MORE thick. If you start from the point that everyone has basic common sense, and treat people accordingly, their analytical capabilites will only improve over time.

Actually you can apply this to everything. We are now teaching our kids to the lowest common denominator (I personally think phonics and all this performative ‘learn through play’ crap is *complete* bollocks)- and look what happened. Nobody can read any more.

12399 ▶▶▶▶ A13, replying to Lms23, 2, #65 of 793 🔗

I don’t disagree with you, but the message could be more effective if it comes from a source that is not associated with conspiracy theories.

12408 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to A13, 11, #66 of 793 🔗

as someone mentioned elsewhere we appear to have moved from conspiracy theory to conspiracy practice

12567 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to crimsonpirate, #67 of 793 🔗

YES!

12528 ▶▶ Angela, replying to Basileus, 4, #68 of 793 🔗

I think Unherd and Delingpole would be better options

12580 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Angela, 2, #69 of 793 🔗

londonreal.tv ?

12598 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to JohnB, 1, #70 of 793 🔗

I think LondonReal.TV have got their own issues, the digital freedom platform has raised a few questions about where the money donated to get this going actually is being spent.

12255 LuluJo, replying to LuluJo, 38, #71 of 793 🔗

I’d like to point at that whilst the services you mention can technically re-open, in practice this is proving extremely difficult because of the ludicrous social distancing guidelines. As an example, I’m a therapist. Both of my professional bodies, as well as my insurance company have categorically stated that I cannot resume face to face work because of social distancing, as well as the guideline that face to face interaction can be for no more than 15 minutes. At a time when my human connection, mental health therapy could be really helping people, I’m stuck with Zoom or Skype as my only options – poor substitutes in my opinion. Try talking someone down from a panic attack with a flaky Skype connection, it’s crap to be honest. I’ve spoken with other ‘hands on’ ‘face to face’ therapists – osteopaths, chiropracters etc and we are all stuck with the same ludicrous ‘go to work, don’t go to work’ scenario. It’s crippling what we do, and inevitably will have long term consequences for our clients/patients. I’m so frustrated, I could scream.

12376 ▶▶ Max, replying to LuluJo, 3, #72 of 793 🔗

It’s nice to see the guidance has been updated but it has been perfectly legal for virtually all the businesses on the list to open (in England) since the beginning of lockdown – they were in the list of permitted retail enterprises in the original Coronavirus regulations. Those that have closed has presumably not been because they have been banned, but because they have had difficulty with engineering social distancing and/or have decided it has not been economic to open due to lack of supplies and/or customers. These latter problems will not have gone away so unfortunately I wouldn’t expect a huge rush to reopen.

12578 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Max, 4, #73 of 793 🔗

Are you sure about that? All the therapists I know, which includes osteopaths. physios, chiropodists and dentists, stated they were forced to close. And even this most stupid of governments must know that you can’t perform those therapies observing unsocial distancing.

12637 ▶▶▶▶ Max, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #74 of 793 🔗

Yes, absolutely sure. Check The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020. On the list of businesses exempt from lockdown:
37. Dental services, opticians, audiology services, chiropody, chiropractors, osteopaths and other medical or health services, including services relating to mental health.
38. Veterinary surgeons and pet shops.

12707 ▶▶▶▶▶ LuluJo, replying to Max, 2, #75 of 793 🔗

And yes, technically they have been able to be open all along, as have I. However, many of us therapists, osteos, physios etc work from home, running micro businesses. My physio for example, runs her business from her house. In order to reopen she has to comply with the following – wipe clean floors, wash hand basin in the room, separate entrance for clients to arrive, with a reception area with social distancing measures in place, separate toilet facilities for clients, PPE, on and on. Now she’s a one woman band, working from her home. None of these things are possible for her, except maybe PPE. We will almost certainly lose her skills and her business will close because of this as she cannot possibly afford to comply, or make such alterations to her rental property!

I could maintain the 2 metre distancing from my face to face clients, but guidelines state I can only see them for 15 minutes and as it could be classed as a clinic, I would have to wear a mask (not happening!) My therapy sessions are 90 minutes at least, so my only option is to work online. I’m in a better position than my physio as I can work, but she can’t. I’m happy to take the risk to see clients, but my professional body categorically states “face-to-face consultations and ‘hands-on’ therapies for the disciplines we register cannot take place until further notice.”

12746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Max, replying to LuluJo, 1, #76 of 793 🔗

Actually, that’s sort of the point I was making. The government can manipulate the headlines by saying “look, x is now allowed” but if x is still subject to “social distancing guidelines” then it may be practically impossible. The problem is, it is difficult to plot an easy route back to normality from where we have got to now (because even if you lifted all guidance and told people it was safe, a large number wouldn’t believe you).

12783 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ LuluJo, replying to Max, 2, #77 of 793 🔗

Absolutely. It’s a way of ducking responsibility and the more cynical amongst us might infer that it’s backside covering for the future – ‘well we said you could open, not our fault if you can’t comply with the guidelines.’ Shifting this cult like response and getting people back to anything resembling normal is going to be one heck of a job. Project ‘Terrify the Public’ has worked too well.

12816 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to LuluJo, 2, #78 of 793 🔗

Yes they want the best of both worlds.

Open up the economy with stupid rules – if things ‘go wrong’ and the mythical R number goes up, they can blame the public for not following said rules well enough and lock down again!

Altho tbh, I think they know it’s not gonna ‘go wrong’ already. Because it’s not going wrong anywhere else.

12950 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Max, 1, #79 of 793 🔗

But that would then be the scaredy-cats’ choice and the rest of us could get on with life.

12948 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Max, #80 of 793 🔗

Dentists aren’t allowed to do anything that generates an aerosol – ie most dental procedures.

12377 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to LuluJo, 10, #81 of 793 🔗

Your services are needed more than ever, and your patients are part of the huge number of forgotten casualties. A podcast today mentioned all the AA meetings that haven’t happened for months. Things like that hadn’t occurred to me and must have dire consequences.

12388 ▶▶▶ Automobile Association, replying to South Coast Worker, 1, #82 of 793 🔗

There are online zoom meetings that are pretty widely available. It’s not the same and it being the internet idiots decide to crash the rooms every so often. The problem is probably also escalating and making it harder for people to get help, though. Really not ideal.

12455 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to South Coast Worker, 1, #83 of 793 🔗

Whilst AA meetings may not be happening, I notice that takeaway alcohol sales are still taking place. We are really trying to mess up society.

12648 ▶▶ sunchap, replying to LuluJo, 2, #84 of 793 🔗

Yes good point. I heard that in California suicide attempts have risen by a factor of 12.

12744 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to LuluJo, 4, #85 of 793 🔗

You do not have to blindly follow any guidelines from Government or trade bodies. You are responsible for these are policies and procedures of your company/operations not them. You should as an arse covering exercise perform your own risk assessment and use the findings from that as a basis for safe operating policies and procedures as long as it is all documented and the reasoning. It could be based on the guidelines, it could ignore them, who knows until you have your risk assessment done and finalised.
Remember the phrase – As Low As Reasonably Practicable – ALARP. This does not mean totally cripple and bankrupt your company trying to comply 100%, it means exactly what it says – get the risks to a level where they are as low as is reasonable.
Guidelines are not law nor enforceable, they are just a matter of opinion until a judge rules on them in court and makes his judgement on whether your risk assessment was sufficient and based on sound facts and science.
“I was just following guidelines” when in court for whatever reason is not an acceptable defence as you are responsible for safe operations and should have seen that the guidelines were wrong and not relevant or could lead to an unsafe condition or act.

How do I know? Dealing with HSE over the years.

12787 ▶▶▶ LuluJo, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #86 of 793 🔗

Thank you, great advice.

13001 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #87 of 793 🔗

The business insurance company would probably then state they are not following guideline and hence the business Liability insurance is not valid. Essentially putting them out of business.
Common sense plays no part in this insanity.

12946 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to LuluJo, 1, #88 of 793 🔗

I’m sure lots of people would be happy to come and scream with you – without social distancing of course. Maybe we should all start screaming on Thursdays at 8pm? Children love screaming. There’s not been much happy screaming round here recently. They’d be very enthusiastic participants.

12988 ▶▶▶ LuluJo, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #89 of 793 🔗

I’d love that – a good screaming session. Never clapped, never will but a good scream would do us all the world of good I reckon.

12257 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 35, #90 of 793 🔗

Sturgeon and Swinney seem determined to ensure Boris is beaten in the race to win the “country with the longest, most harmful lockdown” medal.

12260 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark H, 27, #91 of 793 🔗

They seem to be blithely unaware of the backlash that is going to come down the tracks as the consequences of what they have done become apparent. Amazing idiocy.

12293 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to IanE, 10, #92 of 793 🔗

In the U.S., one theory is that the Democrats are going full-authoritarian lockdown mode to trash the U.S. economy and blame Trump nearer the election.
What is our government’s excuse??

12301 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Lms23, 7, #93 of 793 🔗

Incompetence!

12344 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Lms23, 6, #94 of 793 🔗

Posted something along these lines the other day. Democrats screamed for Trump to close everything down and then blamed him for unemployment.

12288 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mark H, 1, #95 of 793 🔗

Oh, I don’t know. Gavin Newsome in California is giving them a good run for their money. And Cuomo, who, I believe, has been saying New York will not reopen until there a cure.

12349 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Lms23, 11, #96 of 793 🔗

The Florida governor is cool.
All those old people and he still managed a better death rate without lockdown.

12398 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Farinances, 2, #97 of 793 🔗

Georgia has re-opened without an uptick in infections.

12409 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Ewan Duffy, #98 of 793 🔗

Do you have the numbers for Georgia? I have a friend in the States who is adamant that numbers of infections are soaring in Georgia but that the governor is lying about them.

12847 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to The Spingler, #99 of 793 🔗

Seems to me that there is a fundamental misunderstanding regarding infections. The more people get infected, the better. A few will get sick, so provide treatment for them. Otherwise, widespread infection with mild to no symptoms, aka herd immunity, is the goal.

12422 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Mark H, 1, #100 of 793 🔗

Not to mention Drakeford. I knew there must be something good about devolution…

12651 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to grammarschoolman, 2, #101 of 793 🔗

Drakeford is Stalin’s son in the spirit. A petty, mewling, shrivelled little runt, but doing his level best to emulate Papa..

12258 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 51, #102 of 793 🔗

So this just confirms what we suspected all along – that ministers have no balls to take any decisive action because they’re so terrified of getting ‘exposed’ at the enquiry. It’s pure face-saving politics and utterly revolting. Surely being incredibly slow to lift the lockdown and taking no action will be worse in the long run due to the mounting economic and social consequences of the lockdown, so the ministers will end up getting hammered at the enquiry anyway…?

The enquiry is one of the only things keeping me going through this insanity. These cretins have unleashed untold suffering upon the country they serve, and I will experience the sweetest schadenfreude when they finally get their almighty reckoning. I sincerely hope that actual punishment is meted out and it’s not just hand-wringing and lip service.

Anger is definitely the emotion I feel most strongly in amongst all of this but every day we keep fighting, and every day that chink of light at the end of the tunnel gets just a bit brighter. One day we will not be in the midst of this, but looking back at it. It will end.

12266 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Poppy, 19, #103 of 793 🔗

Does anyone believe that a a Government with an 80 seat majority will ‘allow’ any kind of meaningful and independent enquiry, or that the findings will be delivered quickly, or indeed at all?

12340 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 19, #104 of 793 🔗

Simon Dolan’s judicial review may very well do the job, and no wriggling out of it.
Still time to chip in, folks.

12360 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to annie, 6, #105 of 793 🔗

I don’t believe for a minute that he’ll have any meaningful success, but I did think it worth contributing £20 to the cause of gumming up the machinery of government for a little while. Even if putting money in a lawyer’s pocket is a distasteful side-effect.

12449 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to AidanR, 4, #106 of 793 🔗

He did the crowdjustice for the ‘numbers’ of people, it’s used quite heavily in their statement, it’s a peculiarity of JRs to bolster the claimant’s case. The more buy in from other people you have, the stronger your argument (I only know this, as I’m involved in other thing that’s debating a JR).

12463 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #107 of 793 🔗

More jobs for the boys

12267 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Poppy, 21, #108 of 793 🔗

I guess you’re quite young Poppy, because a lot of us slightly older people can see the economic fallout from this impacting on the entire rest of our lives.

12278 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to AidanR, 5, #109 of 793 🔗

Sadly Aiden, this is going to have deep-seated ramifications that will be multigenerational.

12341 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to AidanR, 7, #110 of 793 🔗

I’m in my early twenties and I’m all too aware of the massive fallout this will have on the rest of my working life and my employment prospects.

12472 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Poppy, 7, #111 of 793 🔗

Hi Poppy I think your (our) personal freedoms may be a bigger problem from this.

12272 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Poppy, 12, #112 of 793 🔗

If they don’t lift this soon there will be civil unrest – young men with nothing to do, no money, and hot weather is not a good combination at the best of times. They just haven’t put the action plan, aka ‘the cover-up of all cover-ups’ fully in place yet. Downing Street has just appointed former adviser to both May and Cameron to Cabinet Office – on secondment from Prince William’s office – not sure what that means, if anything.

12280 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #113 of 793 🔗

“In these hot days is the mad blood stirring…..”

12295 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 11, #114 of 793 🔗

It can’t come soon enough… horny handed sons of toil marching up Whitehall with ministers heads on pikes. I’d honour every last one of them,

12298 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #115 of 793 🔗

Not to mention the recent high-testosterone imports with little to no loyalty to this country or people.

12302 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Lms23, #116 of 793 🔗

Why would they riot? Free money, free houses, immunity from the law…

12311 ▶▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to AidanR, #117 of 793 🔗

and free access to pornhub

12475 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #118 of 793 🔗

I am starting to hear of younger men, in lower paid jobs, who are currently furloughed are starting to get a bit restless. Hardley surprising when you are on a low wage, maybe with a child to support and you struggle when you are earning 100% of your normal wage.

13026 ▶▶▶ ray, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #119 of 793 🔗

Think Ray Donovan

12306 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Poppy, 11, #120 of 793 🔗

But why would they be doubling down on universally unpopular nonsense like the 2 week quarantine for arrivals? They are just going to keep pushing to see what they can get away with .

12396 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to South Coast Worker, 5, #121 of 793 🔗

If the need to quarantine for 14 days is so strong, why not implement this immediately rather than in 2 weeks time? Ireland is adopting a voluntary isolation approach for arrivals into the country, backed up by having to give the address at which you will be staying for 14 days. These come into effect on 28 May (the same question arises – if it is that significant, why not implement immediately?)

The rules don’t apply to anyone transiting to another country so it would be possible for a UK bound person to travel from elsewhere in the world to the UK via Ireland and avoid the UK’s quarantine.

12546 ▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #122 of 793 🔗

Utter insanity to even contemplate this now. Months ago possibly. Doing this now is the sign of this idea was though up in a Thick if Of It style circle jerk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O4CTLW-Ddu0

As a life long con voter I’ve reached the end of my line with politicians

12585 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Ewan Duffy, 12, #123 of 793 🔗

Have they not noticed that when you get off a plane you don’t immediately set foot in the place you are staying? So you have trains, buses, coaches, cabs to catch to before you get to your house arrest, mingling with a lot of other people. Rather defeats the object.

12410 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to South Coast Worker, 7, #124 of 793 🔗

It makes no sense. We should have had testing and quarantine of ill passengers at airports back in January. There was no need for a lock-down.

12363 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Poppy, 17, #125 of 793 🔗

“ministers have no balls to take any decisive action because they’re so terrified of getting ‘exposed’ at the enquiry. ”

Except they’re already well and truly exposed. There are too many other countries and regions who haven’t gone with such a severe lockdown, if at all, with little difference in the infection rates.
There might have been a reasonable excuse for a couple of weeks, to get the Nightingale hospitals ready, and source enough PPE, what with there being a worldwide shortage. There were manufacturers willing and able to help with the latter, but that seemed to have been ignored.
The negligent and potentially deliberate transfer of infection from hospitals to care homes is the one terrible policy that shouldn’t be forgotten or forgiven.

12407 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Poppy, 1, #126 of 793 🔗

More job enquiries sent off to the US today 🙂

12259 Louise, replying to Louise, 41, #127 of 793 🔗

Does anyone else feel like things are slowly changing in our communities? People are daring to ask questions and talk about this? Something I have found very refreshing is how people are willing to listen to reason on a one to one basis. Little encounters make me think that people are listening, at least when they aren’t in sharing a social media space with a screaming virtue signaller, drowning out their rational thought process.

I was waiting at the Post Office today, I waited my turn to enter and as I did the woman behind me said in an extremely apologetic way “Do you mind if I enter the shop behind you to look at the cards?” At the counter, I was about 10 metres away from her. I just smiled and said ‘of course I don’t mind. I’m not remotely bothered about the 2 metres”… honestly, she beamed at me. She wasn’t disgusted or annoyed. Other very small things like that are happening. A friend I spoke to said she hadn’t even thought about the opposing argument to lockdown, it wasn’t even on her radar. I can’t say she’s completely comfortable with those ideas yet but she was open to talking about it and said her perspective on it had changed somewhat.

The Twitter screamers only inhabit in their own online bubble of fear. There’s little point for me to try to out-shout them in their natural habitat of hate because they think a smart quip or a fake statistic seals their moral victory. A parents What’s App group message where I simply said “Our kids should be back at school enjoying this sunshine” fell completely flat and unanswered in a usually responsive group.
At first I was angry that they were all so scared of this disease but actually I think they were just frightened of even talking about it in an online space. We’ve all been locked away and our thoughts have been guided by fear… maybe as we slowly merge from our dark caves and start to chat to each other and smile and reassure ourselves that we aren’t all diseased demons, maybe things will start moving faster.

I’m feeling hopeful. I hope you all are too.

12262 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Louise, 14, #128 of 793 🔗

I was feeling hopeful earlier – and then I listened to the stuck record that is Sir Patrick Vallance and the droning of Priti Patel! Problem is it is Friday, and I normally have that as an alcohol-free day so I can look forward to Saturday and Sunday back on the Sauvignon Blanc!!

12271 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #129 of 793 🔗

Don’t do it to yourself!

12282 ▶▶▶ Louise, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #130 of 793 🔗

The pressure on them is increasing dramatically each day.
I would create a graph to demonstrate what I mean but they have lost all meaning.

12300 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Louise, 1, #131 of 793 🔗

I know what you mean…. I’m reaching the point of graph-psychosis…

12286 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Louise, 32, #132 of 793 🔗

Don’t rule that out at all. I am finding that too when you meet a ‘normal’

It’s one fucking giant world lab rat experiment.

The only thing is that the utter contempt that I feel for the lockdownistas is beyond any sort of hatred I have ever felt for any group of people ever in my entire life. Not sure how I can get past that and I have always been such a logical person – maybe that’s what it is, a bizarre mindset I find hard to grasp. There will be previous friends that I will have no problem not speaking to ever again after all of this

12307 ▶▶▶ Louise, replying to ianp, 12, #133 of 793 🔗

Yep, I can relate. It’s as if they are intentionally obfuscating the truth, rather than just being ignorant of it. I will go one of two ways for those people… they will either just slowly go silent on lockdown and focus instead on lynching politicians over some other point distantly related to it, or they will double down. As more jobs go and more people become homeless and a multitude of other horrendous injustices unfold, they will in all probability not be able to equate that to the faults of their own views but I think this will be a far smaller group than we think and most normal(ish) people will have to have a sudden opinion shift at some point. I want someone to ask the government where the tipping point is? Is it always going to be covid protection at all costs? When, in their opinion do the scales tip and cancer deaths, heart attacks, suicide, alcoholism etc come first? For us is has already happened but seriously, any human being no matter how extreme their views must have a tipping point on this… where does their lie?

12420 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to ianp, 12, #134 of 793 🔗

Yes-I’ve got one who would lockdown forever and at infinite cost if it saved one life and another who thinks that the virus is so deadly that any lockdown breach is selfish . If I never speak to or see them again it will be too soon.

12481 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to arfurmo, 8, #135 of 793 🔗

Save one cv19 life at any cost, blow the cost of other lives. I am making sure I speak to colleagues to get a feel for how they see lockdown & this entire cv19 situation. Some are getting better, others are in a hole and will need medical help to get out.

12473 ▶▶▶ David Mc, replying to ianp, 7, #136 of 793 🔗

I completely agree. I will find it very hard to be in the same room as some friends and colleagues when all this is over. Anyone who actively approved of the lockdown has at least in a small way contributed to the buggering up of everything.

12524 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to David Mc, 2, #137 of 793 🔗

It’s strange. I am asking myself why I feel like this, you got to self analyse because even we are part of this huge psychological shit fest.

I mean : IRA, Al Qaeda, ISIS… To some small extent I could see their motive and their beliefs, but not agree with it or obviously their methods. All these lot have got nothing on the lockdowners.

I can only think of the Nazis as a comparison, extreme as that is

12542 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to ianp, 3, #138 of 793 🔗

North Korea. Except KJU is a giant floating blue NHS sign.

12597 ▶▶▶▶▶ Max, replying to ianp, 16, #139 of 793 🔗

Personally I tend to cut most lockdowners some slack. Sure there are a few little Hitler’s out there, but most are just scared. Why? Because a huge proportion are mathematically illiterate. Why do I say this?
Well, most people who read this page will be paying attention to data like the IFR, which according to the consensus is (at worst) around 0.3% – in other words, even if you catch the virus you have around 99.7% chance of survival. Which makes banging everyone up in solitary and crashing the economy just a very little bit over the top.
But suppose the IFR was 30%, in other words if left unchecked, one third of the population would die from the virus. Would the same lockdown measures be justified then? I think most of us sceptics (certainly me) would say yes because the consequences of 1/3 of the population dying would be catastrophic anyway.
The point is, to the average person, there is no difference between 0.3% and 30%, they are both meaningless numbers. They just hear “doctors say a lot of people are dying” from the BBC and conclude something very dangerous is out there (as we would faced with the 30% figure).
Similarly death figures of 3000, 30000 or 300000 all sound the same – in other words “a lot”. And figures of £30 million, £30 billion or £30 trillion in lost output (or extra borrowing/taxes) all just sound like “more than I want to think about”. So they shy away from any costs/risks/lives calculation because they have no way of estimating it which makes any sense to them.
The problem is we have been “dumbing down” public discourse for a long time now so it is not surprising that people jump to unwise conclusions.

12634 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Max, 4, #140 of 793 🔗

Sadly I think you are probably right. When you explain IFR to most people they look confused for a second and then immediately relieved. I think the papers/TV were bandying CFR around too much especially in the early days, which put the extreme shits up people.

12640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Max, 6, #141 of 793 🔗

Probably right, and maybe I am being harsh. But having spoken to a few people at the end of February on weekend away, everyone said the same thing as I was saying : bound to have been spreading for months – yup, bit like the flu but not the flu, yeah you might get extremely unlucky, again just like the flu, oh and yeah, look at what looks like the majority of people being assymptomatic. We probably all already had it – yup. What’s changed since then in terms of what the virus is ? Nothing. Not a thing. Except probably it being shown to be even less lethal than originally thought, oh the irony.

Nobody treated these numbers as absolutes, there was already a load of evidence out there to suggest this was just another thing we would have to live within.

No real maths geniuses amongst them

And then what? Complete and utter loss of all reason and sense through the pathetic MSM, who again were even saying what percentage were assymptomatic as a tiniest of reminder on every gleeful death update.

Instead of almost throwing half their furniture at the TV like me, they’ve let themselves be manipulated, brainwashed into being some sort of virtuous martyrs… The most insidious of which are those who claim how great things are now – can tend the garden, great to have less cars on the road, how we should all take up fucking yoga and be vegan, health before wealth (illogical).. Don’t think that ‘non essential’ jobs should exist – that particular one truly boils my piss.

God, I’ve met all of them.

I only like one aspect of the above – less cars so when I have been out and about it’s been a rare pleasure on the motorways. However it’s an utterly selfish perspective compared to the misery to millions of ruined lives, businesses, child abuse through no schooling, and God knows what other horrific consequences… The worst of which is a fascist state with no freedom of speech.

To the apathetic and scared, we need to snap the mentally weak out of it, somehow. To the zealots who are lovin it, I am ready to get violent

12780 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Louise, replying to ianp, 1, #142 of 793 🔗

Yep, the apparently clear canals of Venice balance out the total destruction of life as we know it.

12969 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Max, 1, #143 of 793 🔗

I think a lot of people ARE dying from the BBC. It has a lot to answer for.

12673 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to ianp, 7, #144 of 793 🔗

Same here Ian. I have (actually, had) a couple of friends who are now so “woke”, I feel that all they do is judge me. I won’t miss them.

12287 ▶▶ Louise, replying to Louise, 3, #145 of 793 🔗

In my haste to vent, my typos are dreadful. Clearly I meant emerge not merge although I am sure there will be plenty of merging in the wider community soon too 🙂

12413 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Louise, 8, #146 of 793 🔗

Yes and no.

I walked along the (narrow) path by the river and stopped to chat with someone who was temporarily blocked by a fallen branch,

Further along I spotted someone coming the other way and stopped in a relatively wide bit. He became completely paranoid, especially as there was someone walking behind me, turned tail and fled. He was walking his dog and his wife, wearing a scary navy mask and carrying a bottle of hand sanitiser.

Sanity returned later as I sat on a seat and had a long conversation with a couple of people as cynical as me. Strangely there are a lot of them around these parts, I recommended this site, Hector Drummond and the estimable Malcolm Kendrick among others.

12414 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Louise, 3, #147 of 793 🔗

Little hitler in the food store near me – a woman who told me to wait outside (even though a guy had just left), and waving at me to get away from the entrance once I had complied with her request.
Utterly pathetic.

12438 ▶▶▶ Louise, replying to Jonathan Castro, 8, #148 of 793 🔗

The most power she ever had in her life.

12458 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #149 of 793 🔗

Just walk away, surely? I’ve refused to queue to get into a shop throughout this nonsense. They need to lose business over it.

12515 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Mark, 7, #150 of 793 🔗

I did. I gave up and went to another shop where there was no queue.

12571 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Jonathan Castro, 5, #151 of 793 🔗

That’s the way to do it! Vote with your wallet, er card.

12577 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to chris c, 4, #152 of 793 🔗

Forced to wear a mask to go in? Cya! Will take my business elsewhere. Simple

12784 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Louise, replying to ianp, 3, #153 of 793 🔗

I will not ever be forced to wear a mask. The thought that we will be forced to causes a physical reaction in me. It may as well be a large badge saying ‘I’m a member of the covid cult’

12261 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 19, #154 of 793 🔗

This is not complicated.

Modelling, international comparisons, complicated mortality rate analysis; all pointless because there is no consistency in the recording of data either in Britain or across international borders.

So, just as the best weather forecast is to stick your head outside, the best way to decide the lockdown argument is to see whether Sweden has moved towards its neighbours policies or vice versa.

‘When deciding to reopen schools, Norway’s Public Health Institute used the experience of Sweden, along with Iceland, Taiwan and Singapore – where no clusters of the virus were linked to schools – as an example when it explained its own reasoning.’

https://www.thelocal.se/20200520/as-europe-comes-out-of-lockdown-what-lessons-can-be-learned-from-sweden

12428 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Tim Bidie, -13, #155 of 793 🔗

Except that it’s Norway that’s only got a few deaths, while Sweden’s are climbing by the day.

12531 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to grammarschoolman, 2, #156 of 793 🔗

Oh Jesus, another absolute numbers ifonlysavesonelifer. Think much bigger wider longer term picture and you will crawl out of the hole your mind is in

12541 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to grammarschoolman, 9, #157 of 793 🔗

Sweden’s economy is not fucked. Which is the key point in all this I think.

12763 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to grammarschoolman, 1, #158 of 793 🔗

@grammarschoolman

So, Norway has solved death almost completely yet Sweden hasn’t quite solved the question of mortality?

Are you that…… (I can’t actually find the right word) *something* that you can’t cope with concept of death. People die everyday, thousands of them, get used to it. People died before The Chinese Killer Virus and they are dying now, after it.

I’m guessing you’ve never worked at the coal face of heathcare as you would be completely useless, people die, get used to it.

12852 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to grammarschoolman, 2, #159 of 793 🔗

And yet Norway is following Sweden’s policies, not vice versa. Why do you think that might be?

Do you think all countries are using the same death registration rules (clue: they are not)?

Are you aware that the rules for death registration in this country have been recently altered?

‘In an emergency period of the COVID-19 pandemic there is a relaxation of previous
legislation concerning completion of the medical certificate cause of death (MCCD) by
medical practitioners….’

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

Are you aware that is also the case elsewhere, for example: Germany, New York……..

12881 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #160 of 793 🔗

Changes to completion of US Department of Health and Human Services Blue Form (so-called because standard death cert is blue) in the USA, too. Most people do not understand the relevance of the change. Because a doctor who explained it was on Fox News, I was ad-hommed for sending the info to my (small) list. “You are getting your info from Fox News!!!!” I don’t even own a TV and so never watch Fox News, or any news, unless something is linked by something else that I am reading, such as a comment.

But this ad-homming is going on all the time. I watched a fantastic interview with Dr. Dolores Cahill of University College, Dublin (saw the link somewhere), and I thought everyone should view it. She has credentials, BTW, up the wazoo! But I got three ad-homming emails because of the Youtube channel where the interview appeared, which was someone called Del Bigtree. I had never prev. heard of him but I could see that he was non-U from the style of his opener. Nevertheless I wanted to hear the interview, and Bigtree did a pretty good job. Mainly, Cahill just took the ball and ran with it and presented IMO a fantastic overview of every aspect of the current situ, plus info on mask wearing, herd immunity, plus the legal ramifications of excess deaths due to lockdown, etc. I told my list to ignore the lead-in and just get to the actual interview. I also sent her CV, so they could see her extremely impressive credentials as a microbiologist. Even so, these people refused to watch the interview and actually *warned* me about the danger of Del Bigtree. Self-righteous nanny behavior coupled with lack of curiosity. A particularly annoying combo. I mean, if I saw that kind of CV I would want to know what this person has to say.
FYI https://people.ucd.ie/dolores.cahill

12264 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 31, #161 of 793 🔗

Liberal Elite: BREXIT will be the biggest act of national self-harm in history.

Boris: Hold my beer, Gove.

12274 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to AidanR, #162 of 793 🔗

Heeheheh.

Needs a line adding.

Liberal Elite: OH THAT’S GREAT BEER

12305 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AidanR, #163 of 793 🔗

Thanks. That made me chuckle, and I needed to a lot!

12327 ▶▶ LiberalForLiberty, replying to AidanR, 2, #164 of 793 🔗

As one of the “liberal elite” I agree with this comment, AidanR. Always dreaded what brexit could be, never imagined a UK government would commit even greater self-harm without even having had a referendum to encourage them.

12581 ▶▶ ianp, replying to AidanR, 4, #165 of 793 🔗

Hmmm, funny enough looking at some of the bailouts being proposed for the southern European economies, and reconstitution of trade links being discussed I might suggest that Brexit could not have come at a better time….

And I voted to remain.

12632 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to ianp, 3, #166 of 793 🔗

#TeamWTO

I actually say this with a heavy heart because I did want a nice trade deal, but I think at this juncture we are better off completely out of that flaming territory as soon as humanly possible. We can do a deal with the individual nations once the Euro and therefore probably the EU ceases to exist. (I gave them 20 years. Corona: Hold my beer).

13033 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Farinances, #167 of 793 🔗

The proximate danger is that Trump will take the USA out of the WTO as part of his ongoing (and soon to escalate) war with China and all things UN.

12265 ianp, replying to ianp, 11, #168 of 793 🔗

Judging from the steadily increasing number of comments and visitors to this site I think it might be in danger of crashing soon… Keep up the good work Toby.

We’re all doing our bit too, am working on a friend I messaged yesterday, first time in a bloody long time, who sent back her usual list of woes and whatnots and signed off with ‘Keep safe’…. Grrr…

Deep Breath…. And now I go to work.

12436 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to ianp, 3, #169 of 793 🔗

They already replatformed it once…. I think the guys who host the site now have pretty scalable infrastructure and seem to know their onions.

12492 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to ianp, 5, #170 of 793 🔗

Talking to people, strangers, neibours, work colluges anybody, is the way forward, don’t argue, give them facts, help them question what is being done to them and perhaps more importantly, their children, and grand children. Some reject everything, let them stew, but the ones where you can get a conversation going, spend the time to push on.

12268 David Mc, replying to David Mc, 36, #171 of 793 🔗

I thought people here might be interested in the governor of Tokyo’s comments yesterday about the ending of the state of emergency in the Japanese capital. For those who haven’t been keeping up with events in Japan, there has been no overall lockdown there – just some fairly mild restrictions on travel and various enjoinders from the government for people to be careful. They’ve had very few deaths. Most of the country is now back to normal – the OLD normal – and Tokyo is the last place to still be under emergency measures, for obvious reasons. Here’s the quote, translated to English (from The Japan Times, here: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/05/22/national/yuriko-koike-state-of-emergency-end-plan/#.XsgB7C_MzBI ):

“This is the final stretch…We need to proceed cautiously, but each day the city meets these criteria is another step toward reclaiming the lives we had before.”

Note the language used here. Reclaiming the lives we had before. Not the new normal. Not indefinite social distancing. The lives we had before.

Where is this kind of language in our leadership when the country is clearly crying out for it?

I lived in Japan for the best part of a decade, and still have friends and family there as it is where my wife is from. With each passing day I feel more strongly that the only alternative open to any of us sane ones is to leave this country, and Japan is the option I’ll probably go for.

12275 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to David Mc, 12, #172 of 793 🔗

The Japanese are delightfully mad when it doesn’t matter, and wonderfully sane when it does.

12294 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to David Mc, 2, #173 of 793 🔗

Here, here. Not been since late 1990s, but desperately keen to go back. My friend in Tokyo suggested we all visited for the Olympics, but that, sadly not on the cards.

12474 ▶▶▶ David Mc, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #174 of 793 🔗

I’m also in Tyneside. Nice to know there is more than one lockdown sceptic in the region!

12494 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to David Mc, #175 of 793 🔗

I saw a video from South Shields a couple of days ago, looked like many sensible people in your part of the world.

12500 ▶▶▶▶▶ David Mc, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #176 of 793 🔗

The North East is a world of its own, mate. Actually I think we have it relatively sane in comparison from what I hear about from the rest of the country. There is all the social distancing nonsense but people are quite prepared to break the guidelines, and even if they’re not they’re always willing to stop for a chat and get a bit of normality that way.

12539 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to David Mc, 1, #177 of 793 🔗

Same in Yorkshire it seems like. Not many people seem that bothered, and definitely not aggresssively so. They do the polite “I’ll wait for you to walk past me” thing.

Everyone is a committed cultist however (rainbows in windows, clapping like seals)

12499 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to David Mc, #178 of 793 🔗

I don’t live there now but my Mam does. Fortunately managed to visit her a couple of weeks before lockdown. I know there will be plenty of sceptics there though – outside the posh bits!

12633 ▶▶ Angela, replying to David Mc, 4, #179 of 793 🔗

The Japanese also value the health of their citizens, because unlike the rest of the world they stopped using the MMR vaccine in 1993, after many children developed non-viral meningitis, 3 deaths, 8 with permanent handicaps ranging from damaged hearing and blindness to loss of control of limbs. They now use individual vaccines for measles, mumps and rubella. Other countries feel that it’s OK to sacrifice those children for the ease of administration and cost effectiveness of doing ‘three in one’.

12638 ▶▶ Pippa Grey, replying to David Mc, 3, #180 of 793 🔗

I havent read every day, so forgive me if this has already been suggested as a Theme Tune.

Joe Jackson’s “Cancer”

Don’t touch that dial
Don’t try to smile
Just take this pill
It’s in your file

Don’t work hard
Don’t play hard
Don’t plan for the graveyard
Remember –

Everything
Everything gives you cancer
Everything
Everything gives you cancer
There’s no cure, there’s no answer
Everything gives you cancer

Somehow the ideas of control and inevitableness, that you have to give up everything to avoid WuFlu but you’ll still get it, have had me thinking of this song even before I found your site.

12807 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Pippa Grey, #181 of 793 🔗

Joe Jackson is God

12269 AidanR, 4, #182 of 793 🔗

I say, Toby…. you know Boris and Gove, don’t you? You could get to them.

Can you send me your measurements for this vest I’m running up?

I’ll chip in for your statue in Trafalgar Square.

12273 South Coast Worker, #183 of 793 🔗

Please can someone post the correct link to the revised CDC CFR numbers so I can share it on. The current link doesn’t seem to be the right page. And their site is a mess to navigate

12279 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 2, #184 of 793 🔗

Hi,
Can anyone give a succinct explanation of what constitutes a pandemic? Seeing as I don’t really think we’re in one I need to know how to properly verbalise why that is.
Thanks.

12348 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Moomin, #185 of 793 🔗
12445 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Lms23, #186 of 793 🔗

Thanks.

12429 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Moomin, 2, #187 of 793 🔗

It’s a panic of the demos, obviously.

12456 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to grammarschoolman, 2, #188 of 793 🔗

Pandemonium

12470 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to Moomin, 3, #189 of 793 🔗

It is a (new) disease which has spread worldwide, (cf epidemic – spread over a large area, more specifically a country), and results in a positively unhinged Public Health over-reaction by a British Government – OK made that last bit up, but maybe not really.

12545 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Moomin, #190 of 793 🔗

A relatively weak transmitable virus that appears and spreads geographically across multiple regions of the world. As piddly as that.

If the ‘common cold’ just appeared in the past few months, it would also be, by definition, a ‘pandemic’

The word itself has become weaponised by the lockdownistas. ‘oh you don’t understand it’s a P A N D E M I C!!!’….

So what.

12884 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to ianp, 1, #191 of 793 🔗

Now being called a Plandemic by quite a few anti-cultists.

12290 TJS7, replying to TJS7, 11, #192 of 793 🔗

Went for a walk this evening and fewer people were leaping out of the way. Most seemed relaxed. So while I am despairing at our politicians I think a glimmer of hope can be found in the changing attitude of the public.

12572 ▶▶ Cody, replying to TJS7, 2, #193 of 793 🔗

Still a fair amount of terrified zombies as well unfortunately;on an earlier walk back from the shop I watched the woman in front literally zig zag from one side of the road to the other every time someone approached on her side of the pavement. She did it 3 times in about 50m.Was actually funny to watch in my present unsympathetic mood and i cruelly sped up at one point to block her route back.

12299 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 19, #194 of 793 🔗

Does anyone know of any dentist anywhere who is open ? The whole of British dentistry seems to be cowed in fear of this nasty virus with a similar fatality rate to flu. German dentists have remained open throughout and don’t seem to be wetpantyhose wearers . I would drive there taking the ferry if I could but Pretty Useless Patel seems to be closing the border to the UK just as everyone else is opening theirs.

12331 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #195 of 793 🔗

I don’t think the dentists are the problem -it is the Government -see https://bda.org/advice/Coronavirus/Pages/faqs.aspx

12350 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #196 of 793 🔗

I have a small abscess and was booked for root canal treatment then a crown. A course of antibiotics cleared it temporarily but it is back now, a constant low level ache. Is it true the only dental option is some sort of dental ‘hub’ where the only treatment available is extraction?

12419 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Steve, #197 of 793 🔗

Only treatment options at the dental hubs are more antibiotics or extract the tooth unless you re a lorry driver and can get to Germany where all the dentists are open.

12359 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #198 of 793 🔗

Dentists were ordered to close, and when they open, they might possibly restrict their services to extractions, and checkups only. This is a guess, and I sincerely hope not.

12424 ▶▶▶ Max, replying to Lms23, 7, #199 of 793 🔗

Dentists were not ordered to close, all medical and vetinary practices were exempted from the lockdown restrictions. However what did happen was they received guidance that no practice should be performed which could result in an “aerosol” of potential virus laden air being created. This means no polishing, drilling, filing or similar, so effectively bans 90% of possible treatments. Simple extractions however do not involve this and so are permitted, and many dentists have remained open for this service (equally many private practices have closed because they do not wish to stay open solely to perform such extractions when other treatments would be more appropriate and/or lucrative).
As another poster said a while back, this has pushed dentistry back to pre-Victorian times, but the situation described by Lms2 is what applies now, not at some future date.

12497 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #200 of 793 🔗

A few days ago I recalls someone saying there are only 10 dental practices open in the whole of Greater London, someone else commented that dentists are only giving out antibiotics and doing emergency extractions. I don’t hold out much hope for you getting to see an actual dentist, sadly.

12569 ▶▶ steve, replying to Peter Thompson, #201 of 793 🔗

Airports open. Just fly to Germany. I’m sure they will be happy to take your money.

12304 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 45, #202 of 793 🔗

Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock, Michael Gove and Priti Patel – can we put them all into indefinite lockdown please? I would support that 100%.

12416 ▶▶ paulito, replying to RDawg, 3, #204 of 793 🔗

In the general population of a high security prison.

12313 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 25, #205 of 793 🔗

https://m.youtube.com/watchv=5oaweiqijyk
The Moving Goalposts from Free State to Police State – Viva Frei Vlawg

This isn’t the only country where people feel trapped by the ever-moving lockdown goalposts. This blogger is in Canada, and a (an ex-?) lawyer, so he looks at the lockdown from the perspective of entering a contract, i.e. to slow down the spread of the virus and not overwhelm the healthcare system, the population have to stay in their homes. But both of those aims have been achieved but lockdown has not been lifted. Now governments are saying that we have to “stop the virus” or “wait for a vaccine” or “prevent a second wave,” choose your pick.
They’ve moved the goalposts. In some countries it’s worse than others, but despite the mounting evidence that the virus goes away on its own, and has a much lower mortality rate than first thought, we’re still going with the Chinese Communist Party model. Maybe we should just be grateful that we’re not being forcibly barricaded in our houses and left to die of starvation. People are dying of untreated cancer, heart attacks, strokes, suicide, alcoholism, etc, etc, instead…

12323 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Lms23, #206 of 793 🔗

YouTube link, no longer available? Another one bites the dust??

12357 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 2, #207 of 793 🔗

For some reason the copied video link doesn’t work. The searching for “Viva Frei Vlawg” and it will be in his list of videos. It’s a bit of a pain, but at least it’s still up…for now.

12316 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 25, #208 of 793 🔗

https://twitter.com/ElonBachman/status/1263846547986530310
“In a few short weeks we went from “We may have to lock down for 18 months to await a vaccine” To: “We may not be able to find enough virus to run vaccine trials” Incredible.”

12321 ▶▶ Pebbles, replying to swedenborg, 3, #209 of 793 🔗

OMG. What a laugh.

12346 ▶▶ IanE, replying to swedenborg, 6, #210 of 793 🔗

Mind you, it’s a great excuse if you know your potential vaccine is a dud!

12381 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to swedenborg, 7, #211 of 793 🔗

Last I heard they still haven’t isolated this virus. They’re just guessing there is a virus as a genetic commonality between victims.

12450 ▶▶ paulito, replying to swedenborg, 5, #212 of 793 🔗

Just read in a Spanish paper that China has a vaccine that “generates antibodies and gives immunity”. Doesn’t the human immune system do this. Wo’nt be queuing up for a vaccine cooked up in a matter of months. They can stick their vaccine up their holes.

12457 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to paulito, 6, #213 of 793 🔗

I wouldn’t believe this from any gvt. at so early a stage.
ESPECIALLY not China.

12523 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to paulito, 4, #214 of 793 🔗

NEVER TRUST THE CCP.

12587 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to paulito, 5, #215 of 793 🔗

Nobody is going to want to be injected with that chinese shit

12319 Biker, replying to Biker, 45, #216 of 793 🔗

I’m 50 in June and i’m sick of it. Times running out for me and i’m damned if i’m gonna sit back and go gently into the night. For my 50th i was going to the British GP F1 ( i go every year but hey) so i doubt that will happen and i’m supposed to be going to Monza for the Italian F1 in September but who knows? Not to mention i go out riding my motorcycle every chance i get. This bollocks is doing my nut in. Mix that in with me not being off my work during the lockdown i think i deserve a f*cking award. I’m paying tax so others can sit on their arse and not only demand i serve them but social distance and all the rest of it.
Don’t tell the Scottish Nazi Party but i went further than the 5 miles Fraulein Sturgeon says i’m allowed on my motorcycle. If she sends the Gestapo i’ll deny it and say it wasn’t me it was a big boy what done it.

12345 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 15, #217 of 793 🔗

Keep your pecker up, brother. All of us here feel like screaming at times, but there will be an end. And there will be a reckoning. And Sturgeon will be caviar, or rather, cheap lumpfish roe. And Comrade Drakeford will be ducked in the village pond, hopefully terminally.

You will ride your bike and I will ride my horse and the world will be ours. (Please slow down when we meet, as the horse is a bit nervous. Most bikers are very considerate about that.)

12380 ▶▶ Adele Bull, replying to Biker, #218 of 793 🔗

I’d got tickets for Michael Bublé at Warwick Castle… 😔

12433 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Adele Bull, 2, #219 of 793 🔗

I see your Michael Bublé and I raise you Glyndebourne.

12518 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to grammarschoolman, #220 of 793 🔗

Hmmm. They have ‘furloughed’ some staff, but not others.

12383 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Biker, 1, #221 of 793 🔗

Well done you!!!!

12423 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to Biker, 15, #222 of 793 🔗

Discussed the 5 mile thing with some mates today who want to go do a hill then get pissed.

Even using a Country or Nautical Mile we can’t get within range of a suitable hill.
It was suggested that we pool our 5 mile allowance, which gives us 25 miles, but I don’t think that’ll wash with ScotPlod or a vigilant SNP Gauleiter.

Anyway, we settled on the quote attributed to Thomas Jefferson (which probably just paraphrases what he actually said, but that’s just detail): “If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so”.

OK, he was American, and banging on about taxes due to Us for funding their defense, and he didn’t say ‘but it’ll cost you £30 in accordance with Coronavirus Regulations if you’re nicked”, but that’s just more detail.

So we’re off up a hill, then a barby with tins and 2 fingers up to Nikki-no-mates.

12544 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to GetaGrip, 1, #223 of 793 🔗

I hope you have a wonderful hassle-free trip!

12677 ▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to GetaGrip, 2, #224 of 793 🔗

Well done. But take care you don’t get your car vandalised by the local Covid vigilantes- there still a few of these imbeciles around.

12454 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Biker, 8, #225 of 793 🔗

When they let us out in Spain for a one hour walk we had to stay within 1 km of our homes. Effectively a walk round the prison courtyard.

12521 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to paulito, 3, #226 of 793 🔗

The Spanish authorities went full-on totalitarian, didn’t they.

12653 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #227 of 793 🔗

Spirit of Franco abroad, no doubt.

12535 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Biker, 6, #228 of 793 🔗

I know how you feel! I follow a channel on YouTube called ‘Itchy Boots’, a very relaxing and well put together vlog by a Dutch woman who is (or was) biking around the world on Royal Enfield Himalayan. She got as far as Peru, then had to abandon her bike there and get back home to the Netherlands when the lockdown happened.

Anyway, I just watched an episode she put up a week ago, in which she shows us a bit of the Netherlands and talked about how normal life is returning – she said they had an ‘intelligent lockdown’, and as of the 15th schools were open again, hairdressers open, nail bars, massage salons(!), everything apart from bars and restaurants. I wish we’d had an intelligent lockdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ish-fpaj81Y

12538 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve, 2, #229 of 793 🔗

Or an intelligent unlock would do!

12563 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Steve, 6, #230 of 793 🔗

Just watched her latest video posted today. Some busy scenes in a town, it all looked so normal and relaxed, barely any social distancing, most shops open, people using cash, lot of people milling around, not one face mask, NOT A SINGLE ONE did I spot.

As for an intelligent unlock – I will not be holding my breath!

12536 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Biker, 9, #231 of 793 🔗

Been way further that 5 miles many times! Seen some police out and about in cars, but only come close to getting in bother when I crested a hill to spot them out with a speed camera, at least they were doing their job.. Drive into the capital nearly every day, no issue leaving, and my exercise is only possible (fun) in certain places, just gotta be crafty with the parking.

On the note of working, interestingly enough I have been customer facing for almost the entire lockdown period (shop closed over the first weekend, had police round checking), must be seeing up to a hundred people a day, and no one at work has been off with a respiratory tract infection. Few instances of food poisoning (skiving?) though.. Seems that I should be more distrustful of my colleagues’ coffee making than anyone’s general health!

12777 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Biker, 3, #232 of 793 🔗

Get a map and draw a circle on it with a 5 mile radius from your house/start point. Ride as much a you like but stay within the circle. If stopped and asked who far you have come just point to the map and show the shortest route between your start point and where you are stopped.
Think laterally and sneakily as there is always a get out in legislation.

12951 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 3, #233 of 793 🔗

Ffs, Biker, at 50 you’re still a youngster. In your prime and all that.

I’m nearly twenty years older than you, and have also been working full-time (at home, admittedly). Remember, if they get you feeling low, the bad guys have achieved their objective !

Make sure you go for a 50 mile burn on your 50th !

(I strongly doubt you’d ever ‘go quietly’ on your motorbike. Am I right ?).

12324 Scott G, replying to Scott G, 15, #234 of 793 🔗

The ridiculous timing of this quarantine BS is the last straw for me. I’ll be too late to save the country, but I’ll be voting anyone but Tory next time round.

12325 ▶▶ Scott G, replying to Scott G, #235 of 793 🔗

*It’ll*

12326 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Scott G, 14, #236 of 793 🔗

I shall probably vote for Farage next time. Certainly not this lot, or Starmer’s gang.

12328 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Scott G, 14, #237 of 793 🔗

Or . . . there’s always the good old Monster Raving Loony Party, because that’s what I’m turning into – a raving loony right now. Angry, fed up, depressed, and throwing things.

12347 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 19, #238 of 793 🔗

The Monster Raving Looney party is already looking like the sanest and most cautious choice.

12406 ▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to CarrieAH, #239 of 793 🔗

Reckon Howling Laud Hope could well be PM in 2024. If not sooner

12460 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #240 of 793 🔗

The Monsters will have to change their name.

12330 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Scott G, 13, #241 of 793 🔗

I shall spoil my vote with a particularly angry flourish.

12417 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Farinances, 3, #242 of 793 🔗

I’ll use it to wipe

12459 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to chris c, 1, #243 of 793 🔗

Chris c. Ha, ha beat me to it.

12511 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Farinances, 3, #244 of 793 🔗

That’s exactly what I did last December. Spoilt my ballot paper. The first time that I’d ever done so. None of them deserved my vote. I feel vindicated but in a rather sad way.

12550 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #245 of 793 🔗

We had a fantastic Labour MP (even though I hadn’t voted her in). She’d only done one stint but had worked really hard for her constituents and I was very happy to vote for her in December. Unfortunately she’s been replaced by a smug, idle Tory git who has been described as “only doing anything if there’s a photo opportunity”.
I feel I should be writing to my MP but know deep down it will be a complete waste of time and effort – unless it’s to interrupt his overpaid holiday for a second or two.

12755 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #246 of 793 🔗

You don’t live in the High Peak by any chance, do you? It sounds uncannily like it! We wrote to our S.T.G. 2 weeks ago about the lockdown and got . . . . .zilch in reply. If your former Labour MP is the same as ours, she is now a county councillor and we agree with your description of her. We wrote to her about the public toilets (still closed despite Government guidance) a week ago. This issue is causing problems for many, not least key workers like bus drivers and old gimmers like us. Sadly, we haven’t heard back from her yet either. We urge you to write anyway (see lots of other posts about how letters can really count, even if you don’t get a reply or receive a meaningless cut-and-paste job). Somebody has to read it so it won’t go unheard.

12993 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #247 of 793 🔗

Thanks Miriam. I’m in Colne Valley

13009 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #248 of 793 🔗

Thinking about it, there must have been similar results in many constituencies in the last GE. BWs, Miriam

12384 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Scott G, 7, #249 of 793 🔗

I was meant to be going away in July. Now they’ve done this getting the money back will be near impossible as I will have to cancel myself rather than the airline. If I did go when I come back I’d have to go through the airport, get a coach, get a taxi and go out and buy food anyway, and coming back from a country with basically zero covid issues. So what’s the point other than making the public more miserable?

12427 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to South Coast Worker, 4, #250 of 793 🔗

Don’t cancel -just wait until it doesn’t happen .

12647 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to South Coast Worker, 1, #251 of 793 🔗

Plus they are doing this in the final summer before the Brexit transition period ends. Idiots. Some of us have to get abroad to sort out our residency papers before that happens. Because I’m sure as hell not sticking around in the U.K. now that this fiasco has happened. Britain is dead in the water now. Deliberate? I’m beginning to wonder.

12385 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Scott G, 5, #252 of 793 🔗

I’ll write “NONE OF THE ABOVE” in my ballot paper.

12421 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Scott G, 7, #253 of 793 🔗

The new Conservative Freedom Party? I’ve got the domains, but nothing up and running yet.

12514 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Jonathan Castro, 3, #254 of 793 🔗

Please do that. That’s exactly what this country needs. The Tories are a joke and have been for a long long time.

12553 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #255 of 793 🔗

They’re not at all funny though.

12606 ▶▶▶ AnyFreedomParty, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #256 of 793 🔗

Take the “conservatism” bit out and you’ll get even more support. Not saying there is anything wrong with conservatism, just that a party which stands solely for freedom and doesn’t sully itself in left-right arguments, or taking up any controversial causes beyond everyone’s right to live as they please in privacy without state intrusion into private matters, is going to get support from more people than one which only appeals to the people in the intersection of freedom-loving, economically-right-of-centre, and culturally-traditionalist. If you appeal to all of the freedom lovers you might get more chance of making some changes, and the chanegs we really need at that.

12512 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Scott G, #257 of 793 🔗

Hopefully I’ll be somewhere far far away, not voting here!

12664 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #258 of 793 🔗

Us too, currently looking at buying a business in Costa Rica and moving out there with the family.

12332 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #259 of 793 🔗

https://twitter.com/JamesTodaroMD/status/1263859710459031552

2/ Mean COVID infection course: Exposure to symptom onset: 6 days Symptom onset to hospitalization: 6-7 days Symptom onset to death: 14 days First exposure to death: 20 days
This is from CDC report just out. Important as lots of discussion on this blog about time of exposure to death only Italian or Hubei data given. This now CDC US estimation.
Remember.UK. Peak of death 8th April .Lockdown UK 23rd March. Peak of infection four days before that. Effect of deaths of lockdown?

12605 ▶▶ Bryan Tookey, replying to swedenborg, #260 of 793 🔗

Thank you for link – this is indeed key bit of info. As is the variation between when different countries lockdown was instituted and when peak deaths were seen.

12333 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 18, #261 of 793 🔗

K so…. I’m freaked out. Did anyone just watch the news?

A) There was OTHER news except corona fearp00rn (plane crash)
B) There was actual majority time devoted to lockdown death p00rn AKA economic armaggeddon

But most importantly

C) There were smiles. There was a puff piece about some dude who lost a competition when he pronounced Tony Hadley wrong and Tony Hadley swooped in to rescue his poor ass. There was a LIGHT mood. There were jokes.

It was bloody weird.
Ladies and gents, the media have flipped.
But I’m not sure I like the direction they’re going in. Focusing away from the lurgy – good – but downplaying the terrible mess we’re in generally? – not good.

Jury’s out I suppose. But man that was a strange experience.

12386 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Farinances, 7, #262 of 793 🔗

I haven’t watched the ‘news’ in years.

12452 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to South Coast Worker, 2, #263 of 793 🔗

Sometimes I catch the end before making me tea. Today I watched the whole thing in weird car crash mode. It was very very strange. Just yesterday they were still claiming all the babies were gonna die.

12583 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Farinances, 9, #264 of 793 🔗

The one that bugged me was when they blamed the virus for the crashing economy

IT’S NOT THE VIRUS IT’S THE LOCKDOWN, STUPID

12589 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to chris c, 4, #265 of 793 🔗

Precisely. Validating the disastrous position due to a grand lie. Never forgive them, never forget

12471 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Farinances, 24, #266 of 793 🔗

I caught five mins of Question Time last night, and Fiona was talking about theatres with some from the arts sector, she said, all intellectual face, ‘can we afford theatres?’ – I nearly put my boot through the telly!! Who do these people think they are???? This is our life, our communities, our culture, jobs, our freedom to buy a bloody ticket and go where ever we want. If people want football, and art, and galleries and dogs homes, and the effin’ safari park, what’s it to her? They have truly jumped the shark.

There was a dreadful bit on Channel 4 news earlier that evening, John Snow all regretful as London Zoo is running out of money. It’s like it’s just occurred to them, ‘oh yeah, to feed the penguins you need money to buy fish, who knew?’.

I’m finding it all a bit sinister.

12510 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to BecJT, 4, #267 of 793 🔗

I will be happy if bbc licence sales plummet over the next few months, as less and less people will be able to afford to pay it (not that I pay it myself anyway).

12559 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Castro, 4, #268 of 793 🔗

Well mine expires at the end of the month but the fear-mongering and sickening covid propaganda has made me decide not to renew. Wouldn’t it be good if they bothered to ask me why!

12942 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #269 of 793 🔗

They won’t. Well, they didn’t ask me.

You will get one or two letters a month from Crapita. I must have had hundreds by now. Was planning to sell my collection of nasty letters on eBay, but my wife’s patience expired and she recycled them. 🙁

12998 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #270 of 793 🔗

Thanks for the warning. Can I return them with RTS unsolicited junk mail written on them?

13228 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #271 of 793 🔗

Not tried that. Might give it a whirl with the next one. 🙂

PS There is one particularly nasty one. designed to look for all the world like an ‘Unable to deliver your parcel’ card. “Please ring this number.” it said.

13207 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to BecJT, #272 of 793 🔗

Winston Churchill in 1938: ‘The arts are essential to any complete national life. The State owes it to itself to sustain and encourage them.’

12588 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Farinances, 6, #273 of 793 🔗

You are being manipulated into accepting the ‘new normal’ by the scum in MSM.

Never accept that

12337 paulito, replying to paulito, 29, #274 of 793 🔗

Great news. The rounds of applause for the health service have been replaced by “caceroladas”, basically making a racket by banging pots and pans , against the government. Every evening at 9 o’clock my wife and I will be enthusiasticaaally joining in. Protests all over Spain tomorrow at 12 o’clock. Organised by Vox. admirers of Franco’s dictatorship, which may put people off but they could well be sizeable.,

12342 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to paulito, 1, #275 of 793 🔗

Great progress!!!!

12362 ▶▶ IanE, replying to paulito, 6, #276 of 793 🔗

I so wish we had one of those here: it would give me a chance to get my own back on one of our thursday night noisy zealots!

12526 ▶▶ A13, replying to paulito, 9, #277 of 793 🔗

Can we replace clapping for NHS with booing at our government or shouting ‘End Lockdown’? Different night of course to avoid confusion.

12565 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A13, 4, #278 of 793 🔗

I like it! No-one on my road has bothered with the clapping fiasco though, so I might have to shout very loud.

12596 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #279 of 793 🔗

Damn, they’re still clapping up a storm here on a Thursday night.. I’ve taken to playing the Russian national anthem out the window when they start.

12941 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to AidanR, #280 of 793 🔗

The woman who started it (in this country) has asked for it now to stop after next week. ‘In case it gets politicised’.

13006 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AidanR, #281 of 793 🔗

Apart from the Russian national anthem, why not also play the anthems of the countries that didn’t lockdown and have emerged from it – Sweden, Taiwan, South Korea, Denmark, Japan?

12561 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, 2, #282 of 793 🔗

Awesome!

12351 spelldispel, 36, #283 of 793 🔗

I just want to say thank you to Toby for setting is up, makes me feel better to know that sane people still exist in the sea of seal zombies.

12352 annie, replying to annie, 65, #284 of 793 🔗

Last night I dreamed a dream.

The Queen was scheduled to make a live broadcast to the nation. She appeared as usual, poised and serene. But suddenly she sat bolt upright, hurled a brick through the autocue, fixed the cameras with a steely glare, and began:

People of Britain, I know you are watching me without respect or full attention, sloppily dressed and probably eating junk food. I will give you just five minutes to take off your nappies, assume decent clothes, smarten yourselves up and return to hear my announcement.

[Five minutes later.]

In view of the lamentable condition of this country, I have decided to resume my proper place as an active head of state. I have dismissed the present cabinet and am in process of selecting a new set of ministers equipped with brains and backbones. Dr David Starkey is to be the new Prime Minister, and Lord Jonathan Sumption will be Lord Chancellor. We are currently looking for a Chancellor who can add up and knows that there is no such thing as a magic money tree. We will let you know when and if we find one. Leading my new team, I shall restore this country from the shambles it has become.

For a thousand years, the best of the people of these islands have striven – not always successfully, and never unanimously, but unceasingly – to construct a system which is built on justice and individual freedom. But to maintain justice requires courage, and individual freedom requires individual responsibility. People of Britain! In a few short weeks, cowed and subjugated by panicking bullies who use fear and lies as their weapons, you have cast away the labours of a thousand years. You have ceased to care for justice, you have surrendered your freedom, and you have shrugged off your responsibilities. Everything that is worth having in Britain has been destroyed by the so-called lockdown. Without protest, without resistance, you have allowed your country to be turned into a vast concentration camp, where you are at the mercy of self-styled leaders who know neither leadership nor mercy.

You have betrayed the most vulnerable, the old and frail, by leaving them at the mercy of a ‘health service’ that bundled them into so-called ‘care’ homes to die. You have betrayed the sick, by abruptly terminating all treatment except for a single disease. You have betrayed the country’s children, by depriving them of their elementary right to an education, and then by proposing to subject the youngest of them to regimes of appalling and sadistic cruelty. You have betrayed young adults by taking away from them everything that makes their lives worth living, and deleting hope from their futures by deliberately and knowingly incurring economic collapse. You have betrayed yourselves by preferring idleness and cowardice to courage and honest work.

The empty streets of this country are not filled with love. That is sentimental nonsense. They are filled with despair: despair that you yourselves have created by believing the words of self-serving and unprincipled fools.

You have tried to achieve what has never been achieved before in the history of human affairs: you have done your very best to turn cowardice into a virtue.

Cowardice is not a virtue. It is the vilest and most shameful of human weaknesses. I shall not tolerate it.

Therefore I say to you:

If you truly have reason to fear the present threat of disease, take whatever steps you yourselves deem necessary to protect yourselves. The rest of us will help and support you all we can.

For those – the vast majority – who are not in danger, the time of hiding from imaginary terrors is over. Come out. Come out now.

The poisonous new cult of NHS worship will cease. Christians, thrust aside your spineless, grovelling bishops and re-enter your churches. Break the doors down if necessary. Leave them open so that all may come in. I will defend the faith in which I was brought up and in whose name I was crowned.
If you are not of the Christian faith, return to your own holy places and worship in them as your faith demands. If you have no religion, at least try to be honest in your unbelief.

Schools and universities will reopen exactly as they were before. Teachers will teach and pupils will learn, without surrendering to imaginary terrors. Parents and teachers will work together so that children may grow up honest, courageous and willing to take necessary risks. There will be hard work, hard play, gravity, laughter, and genuine debate.

People will return to their jobs and work for their money. They will not allow themselves to be bullied into a grossly stupid and irrational way of behaving which assumes that all other human beings are deadly enemies.
Having worked hard and honestly, make the best of your leisure time. Re-open facilities in your towns and use them. Be cautious where caution is needed, but use your common sense to discern when it is not. Celebrate life, not death. Go out into the country, and into the parks of our cities. Tear down threatening notices and remove barriers. Take possession of national parks. Take back what is yours.

Eat, drink and be merry. Do not shrink from your fellow human beings.

Now take a look around you and see what you, with your cowardice and inertia, have made of this country. It is up to you to restore it. I am old, but I have seen hard times and in my heart and mind I shall be with you. Together we will walk into the light.

************
And then I woke up.
Join the discussion…

12355 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to annie, 12, #285 of 793 🔗

Someone with better acting chops than me, please perform this and put it on youtube.

12356 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to annie, 13, #286 of 793 🔗

It would be even better if the address to the nation was given by Prince Philip. I suspect he would take an even stronger line!

12368 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Hammer Onats, 17, #287 of 793 🔗

It would go smething like this:

“Get off your arses, you pussies!!”

Or to get native
Απλός το κάνεις, δειλοί!

12482 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 4, #288 of 793 🔗

I’d pay to see that….

12358 ▶▶ IanE, replying to annie, 9, #289 of 793 🔗

Sadly, whilst queenie may be poised and serene, I have yet to see her stand up for the people of the United Kingdom.

This would certainly be a good time to start!

12387 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 11, #290 of 793 🔗

Gawd….I wish she would say this!!!

12425 ▶▶ chris c, replying to annie, 8, #291 of 793 🔗

Brilliant!

12426 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to annie, 4, #292 of 793 🔗

Very good!

12483 ▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to annie, 6, #293 of 793 🔗

Wonderful!

12527 ▶▶ James, replying to annie, 3, #294 of 793 🔗

Oh thank you, thank you ,thank you, for a lovely piece of sanity!

12540 ▶▶ Paul, replying to annie, 3, #295 of 793 🔗

If only….

12543 ▶▶ James, replying to annie, 2, #296 of 793 🔗

Can you send this to me as an email so
I can distribute it. Regardless of the sentiment, which I wholly agree with, it is a wonderful piece of writing .

jclfind@mac.com

12654 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to James, #297 of 793 🔗

Will do, James!
See you at the palace …

12938 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to James, 1, #298 of 793 🔗

Do those expensive mac computers not do cut-n-paste, James ? 🙂

12618 ▶▶ gina, replying to annie, 2, #299 of 793 🔗

Thank you for taking the time to write and post this. Hats off to you on your writing skill – and your humour. All we’ve managed here so far is to vandalise a couple of NFU notices on a pathway through the woods…but we are trying and will do better. You have inspired us.

12622 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to annie, 1, #300 of 793 🔗

Royals have been very quiet during this national emergency.

12686 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #301 of 793 🔗

To be fair they have been doing their bit by supporting their charities. However they are barred from making political statements and unfortunately policies surrounding the lockdown and social distancing are political and the royal family have to be politically neutral at all times.

12641 ▶▶ Splendid Acres, replying to annie, #302 of 793 🔗

I experienced something similar the other week. Woke to a bright sunny morning, thinking that I really must tell/bore someone with my dream so I rehearsed it in my head a moment before the idea evaporated:

We all had to stay in our houses all the time, and

Oh, no. Wait….

13221 ▶▶ MaggieDew, replying to annie, #303 of 793 🔗

Brilliant! Exactly my thinking but I couldn’t have put it into words like this!

12353 Oaks79, replying to Oaks79, 20, #304 of 793 🔗

Finally had a reply from my MP, which is funny as I was only just moaning on here yesterday about no getting a reply (are we being watched?) Anyway it was just the usual response those who have had a reply will know “I support the government blah blah blah” .
Do they know something we don’t, is this going to mutate into the black death and kill millions ?
Have we had any MP attack the Gov’t at all over this, surely there must be at least one that is seeing what we all are ?

A friend of mine reckons the UK already has the vaccine and that’s why Johnson and co are throwing the money around and pushing vaccine vaccine all the time, this is them selling it like snake oil salesman.

I feel like I’m living in some weird t.v. program and this is all some sort of wacky experiment.

12361 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Oaks79, 9, #305 of 793 🔗

My only rational explanation for what has happened is that aliens are now in charge – and this is one of their ‘wacky experiments’ to try to understand how it is that humanity has so far failed to self-destruct.

12434 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to IanE, 2, #306 of 793 🔗

There was a character in John Brunner’s Stand On Zanzibar who spent his time stoned out of his mind on whatever he could get, watching TV and thinking

“Christ! What an imagination I’ve got!”

Nowadays you don’t even need the drugs

ps I think Stanley Milgram is in charge

12570 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 2, #307 of 793 🔗

Have you seen “Brain Dead” on Amazon?

12403 ▶▶ spelldispel, replying to Oaks79, 2, #308 of 793 🔗

There is the odd one, Steven Baker seems normal from his Twitter feed.

Yes the is definitely a vested interest in the vaccine, follow the money, the most sinister aspect of all of this in my opinion.

12415 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Oaks79, 1, #309 of 793 🔗

Well, new vaccine tsar appointed last week from investment fund – Kate Bingham. Married to Jesse Norman MP, Financial Secretary to the Treasury:
https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/18457643.wife-herefordshire-mp-chair-uks-coronavirus-vaccine-taskforce/

12738 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Oaks79, 3, #310 of 793 🔗

A vaccine (and to make it compulsory) has always been one of the major drivers of the so-called pandemic worldwide. As always, follow the money.

Always ensure that you familiarise yourself with all the ingredients and side effects (short, medium and long term) of any vaccine/drug before making an informed decision to take it or not. Just because your doctor/NHS website tell you that it is perfectly safe, is not always true.

Why are the public not informed that optimised Vitamin D levels and a healthy wholefood diet and lifestyle in addition to regular hand washing will give them better protection from this and other viruses?

12786 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Victoria, 4, #311 of 793 🔗

Don’t need to familiarise myself with anything. It’s not going anywhere near my bloodstream because I don’t need it to survive this virus.
And even if it might help- it’s not going near my bloodstream until it’s undergone several years worth of testing on human subjects.

12837 ▶▶▶▶ Angela, replying to Farinances, 1, #312 of 793 🔗

You may not be given the choice, unless you want to move to the woods and live off the land.

12935 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Angela, 1, #313 of 793 🔗

Or capture the head of anyone coming near you with a syringe.

(How exactly does one shrink a head, anyone know ?)

12794 ▶▶ Angela, replying to Oaks79, 2, #314 of 793 🔗

Create a problem, provide the solution. We are sleepwalking into Orwellian control under the guise of health management. Gates Foundation in partnership with Google and Utube owner Larry Page who also owns Galvani Bioelectronics, which uses miniaturised, implantable devices that will go into the mandatory vaccines required to provide ‘immunity passports’. A ‘conspiracy theory’? Drill down to the facts before you make a decision. https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/media/press-releases/gsk-and-verily-to-establish-galvani-bioelectronics-a-new-company-dedicated-to-the-development-of-bioelectronic-medicines/

12937 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Angela, #315 of 793 🔗

Come on Angela, no need to spread their poison for them.

“… miniaturised, implantable devices that MIGHT go into the POSSIBLY mandatory vaccines required to provide THE PROPOSED ‘immunity passports’.”.

12933 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Oaks79, #316 of 793 🔗

“(are we being watched?)”

With over 99% of the media, the telly, and the internet all falling into lockstep (admittedly easing off over the last week or two), what do you reckon ? 🙂

12354 IanE, replying to IanE, 5, #317 of 793 🔗

So (ye gods), Prof Gupta thinks that “the truth is that lockdown is a luxury, and it’s a luxury that the middle classes are enjoying and higher income countries are enjoying at the expense of the poor, the vulnerable and less developed countries”. A luxury??? I dare say most teachers are enjoying it, but it is hardly a luxury!

I was getting to like her, but now it seems that she is just another Leftie using covid as a political football

12366 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to IanE, 4, #318 of 793 🔗

Sadly these people’s expertise is always tinged with their politics. Even when they’re discussing facts you sense an ‘undertone’.

12370 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to IanE, 17, #319 of 793 🔗

I think she meant luxury in the sense that richer countries can afford to lockdown because economically they are in much better shape. For poorer countries, it is not an option because of people don’t work, they starve.

The positives you can take from her interview is that she believes we are coming to the end of this pandemic, at least in the U.K. They all follow the same pattern, and this will be over by the end of June, perhaps into early July. This means life will start returning to normal, and certainly within six months everything should be open again.

I keep saying time and time again, focus on that NYE party. We will all be celebrating at the end of 2020, saying, “Phew! Thank God that’s all behind us.”

12393 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to RDawg, 1, #320 of 793 🔗

Maybe – but she did go on about ‘enjoying’.

12575 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 4, #321 of 793 🔗

But I know people who have actually said they are enjoying the lockdown. They are very happy in their I’m alright jack bubble. They’re in for a nasty shock but it is a luxury for some.

And how about Lord Fox?! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/21/lib-dem-peer-lord-fox-says-sorry-for-claiming-furlough-and-lords-allowance

12614 ▶▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #322 of 793 🔗

Good point. The 10 million furloughed employees are having one big summer holiday.

12752 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #323 of 793 🔗

I have a friend who is furloughed and she’s not happy with the situation – she’s been telling me that she really wants to go back to work.

Most of the “I’m alright Jack” brigade are those who hate their jobs and welcome the opportunity not to work and still get paid while others are relatively affluent and live in nice areas where this crisis has not made not a lot of dent to their lifestyles.

Agree they will be in for a nasty shock – in the form of redundancy and tax rises.

13031 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Bart Simpson, #324 of 793 🔗

Redundancy is the light at the end of my tunnel.

12893 ▶▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #325 of 793 🔗

There’s a big difference between enjoying something and believing in it. For example, for me personally lockdown has been frankly lovely. I’ve been paid my full salary to stay at home for two months and have made the most of it! But that does not mean that for one second I have approved of it or have done it by choice. I thought that the 12 week shielding that the Gov initially brought in mid-March was plenty sufficient and have always opposed any enforced restrictions on young healthy people.

12506 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to RDawg, 4, #326 of 793 🔗

With a massively reduced salary (unless I find another job), it won’t be cause to celebrate here!

12655 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 1, #327 of 793 🔗

Your schedule sounds about right.
But thinking further along the same lines, there will be flare-ups later, as with flu every year, and the zombies will scream for more lockdown. And we all go to hell in a handcart.

12722 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to RDawg, #328 of 793 🔗

Only to be back again when flu season starts…. The stage has been set

12400 ▶▶ Mark, replying to IanE, 7, #329 of 793 🔗

Yes, that grated for me, as well. But then again nobody’s proposing her for PM. All we need from her is her expertise and scientific credibility on the particular issue, and that just for a short time while the grip of Untruth is broken.

12443 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 2, #330 of 793 🔗

And at least she can’t be accused of being a horrible rightwing misinformation troller.
Although. …. find me a rightwing science professor! – who’s willing to be so *in*public* 😉

12451 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 7, #331 of 793 🔗

Being associated with the far right (especially anything that can be portrayed as “racist”) is career suicide in academia. You need to be pretty robust and self-confident even to come out as conservative. The ones remaining are not so stupid as to openly admit their views.

12489 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 3, #332 of 793 🔗

You are so right. Study done a few years ago put the number at around 80% vote Labour or LibDem. Of course, they are terribly shy about sending their children to the very best private schools, of which Oxford has a few!

12590 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #333 of 793 🔗

It’s so bizarre, when I was young Conservative meant The Establishment and Alec Douglas Hume.

Then there was The Alternative Society, all supposedly far left stuff like women’s liberation, gay liberation, antiracism, environmentalism, ecology, alternative energy and so on. Now it seems to be all virtue signalling and bullshit like “low emission” engines that use far more fuel than their predecessors and the health and safety culture.

12931 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #334 of 793 🔗

“” … the grip of Untruth …”

Excellent. Will be using this, Mark, quite shamelessly. 🙂

13014 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #335 of 793 🔗

“In the grip of Untruth” would be a brillaint slogan to put on a facemask if we were compelled to wear one.

12719 ▶▶ ianp, replying to IanE, 2, #336 of 793 🔗

It is political but she is right. I live in a suburban area, semi detached houses, greenery , fields nearby. Typical ‘lawnmower Sunday’ type area. I see far too many people appearing to ‘enjoy’ this lockdown because of their good fortune. I spot them easily as the ones placing garden accessories in public area ffs.

I just know how lucky I am to be able to take a walk or bike ride out in amongst all of this nonsense.

12781 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to ianp, 3, #337 of 793 🔗

I mean totally, she’s right. But how is that anything to do with ‘libertarianism’? It’s the libertarians, of whatever class, who are fighting to get people back to work! It’s the (largely ‘left wing ‘ – sorry prof gupta) state employees/professional class who are willing to sit on their arses taking ‘free money’.
Do why is she dissing ‘libertarian politics’?
Wilful ignorance because her ‘leftwing’ sensibilities have to be stressed in a public interview. Virtue signalling, basically.

12364 Fionnuala Mckibbin, replying to Fionnuala Mckibbin, 17, #338 of 793 🔗

I certainly think they need to “man up” BUT I think they are in an impossible situation and I honestly believe that our national media has a LOT to answer for. Think back to pre-lockdown when we still had schools open. All you heard on the BBC was “Why is our science different to the science in Europe and elsewhere?”. “Why aren’t we locking down, why are our schools not shutting”. Impossible

12431 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Fionnuala Mckibbin, 22, #339 of 793 🔗

Agree. This lockdown would never have happened, anywhere except perhaps China, if there was no 24 hour news coverage and no social media. It would just have been another bad ‘flu’ year that barely registers for most people.

12465 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to The Spingler, 2, #340 of 793 🔗

My plan is to sue anyone who watches the news or uses social media. Without patrons, they’d both dissolve into the mist.

Anyone wishing to be omitted from my lawsuit can send £20 to the following address …

12440 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Fionnuala Mckibbin, 8, #341 of 793 🔗

That’s the point. This is _all_ down to the media – but a genuinely Churchillian prime minister would have told them where to go.

12446 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Fionnuala Mckibbin, 11, #342 of 793 🔗

It’s true that the media has a lot to answer for, but the government and Johnson weren’t helpless victims in all that. They could have changed the narrative. Worse than not resisting it, they positively reinforced it at times, because they thought it would make people obey their literally stupid restrictions.

12731 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark, 1, #343 of 793 🔗

Agree. They have the best spin doctors and PR companies.

12504 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Fionnuala Mckibbin, 1, #344 of 793 🔗

It appears they conveniently omitted Taiwan, which had no lock-down, and about 7 deaths so far from Covid-19.

12365 swedenborg, 3, #345 of 793 🔗

https://twitter.com/plaforscience/status/1263833756747644928/photo/1
https://twitter.com/plaforscience/status/1263863860571901953/photo/1
The last curve is interesting. Here is his comment
“Just for laughs at the mistake. Our red line is related directly to our Rt value. Here’s OFFICIAL interpretation of Rt evolution according to the wrong estimate from PCR model. What in nature follows this pattern!!! Not related AT ALL neither with restrictions.”
The meaning is that the pandemic is following the Gompertz curve based on deaths of Covid-19.
The sudden increase of Rt is the artificial increase of the PCR testing detecting cases exponentially when in fact it was already declining (I think is the best interpretation). Nothing in nature can behave like that.

12375 BobT, replying to BobT, 28, #346 of 793 🔗

Greetings from the Caribbean

Yesterday was quite a good day. Our Government announced that we have no cases of Covid-19 here. I could do a graph of this but it would be a bit boring because none = 0.

They also announced a reasonably pragmatic way of us getting some tourists back along with many of our citizens who have been trapped abroad for many weeks. Reasonable or pragmatic are not terms usually attributable to our politicians here but they do seem to have had a day off.

The plan is to open the Airport June 1.
They have changed the customs and immigration rules so that it is all done electronically therefore avoiding crowding people together in the terminal building while at the same time avoiding direct contact with the officers.
They have installed thermal cameras to monitor incoming passengers and they have purchased a supply of rapid teting kits so that anyone with a high temperature can be tested on the spot. Anyone testing positive will be asked to self isolate at home or in their hotel. Taxi drivers are being asked to clean their taxis (which is nonsense because they are always immaculate anyway) and wear masks. Under the circumstances this seems like an intelligent approach, well done. But that was YESTERDAY.

TODAY, the UK Government announced a 14 day quarantine on entry which means that no (0 again), nobody will come here from UK knowing they will have to be quarantined on their return.

I guess we will just have to get on with our poverty.

Thanks.

12382 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BobT, 25, #347 of 793 🔗

They really screwed you, and anyone anywhere who depends on international tourism, with that.

And all for a stupid bit of virtue signalling designed to distract people from the fact that if there ever was a time for tightening the borders re covid it was four months ago. And they blew it.

Matt Hancock, Michael Gove, Boris Johnson

Never forget, never forgive.

12503 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Mark, 1, #348 of 793 🔗

5 months ago 🙂 And quarantining of those tested as being ill (e.g. high temperature).

12726 ▶▶ ianp, replying to BobT, 1, #349 of 793 🔗

Your government and all others have screwed you over. It’s heartbreaking

12793 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BobT, 2, #350 of 793 🔗

Petition your Government to force our’s to put them on a no quarantine list. Holiday as normal No masks etc on planes, no curfews and so on a being bandied about by other countries.

Part of your reasoning can be my argument – if I am just swapping one prison for another even if the weather is better and paying a high price for the privilege then I won’t bother going.

I will make a deliberate and determined effort to go to countries that act the “old normal”, fly airlines that are sensible and informed, frequent businesses that are fighting back against the restrictions as they are the ones that deserve my little stash of money not those working hand-in-glove to promote tyranny and destroy freedoms.

Feel free to quote me to your Government BobT.

12928 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #351 of 793 🔗

Good stuff AG. Will also be following your plan re airlines/countries/businesses with some common sense.

12995 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 1, #352 of 793 🔗

One good thing, as much as the wife is missing the regular jaunts to the heat, sunshine and beach even she agrees she is not going anywhere where there are curfews, quarantines etc so at least that is one lot of earache I don’t have to worry about.

13029 ▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to BobT, 1, #353 of 793 🔗

Taxi drivers wearing masks worries me as masks reduce the oxygen getting to the brain, which impairs physical and mental functioning. They also cause a harmful build up of carbon monoxide if worn for long periods.

12378 James007, replying to James007, 22, #354 of 793 🔗

Wife was crying once again earlier, trying to understand the email from our preschool about whether our autistic son (very much damaged by 2 months of solitary) will be allowed to go back on June 1st. He didn’t quite meet the government’s definition of “vulnerable” as his SEN plan (or whatever it’s called) hadn’t been put together yet. There is a very complicated method for deciding which children are allowed to go back.

Obviously they are doing the usual social distancing queues around the car park, adults banned from taking their children to the school room (child has to be handed over at the checkpoint) and any children that do attend are not allowed to be looked after by any other carers (eg childminder or grandparent). On the plus side the staff that are working wont be looking after the children wearing masks and gloves!

Also trying to line up a child minder for September, whilst not be allowed to visit any of them with son. (Adults banned)

So lots of depression and tears, but I have my fingers crossed for June 1st. And also that he will be allowed to see his nana (a healthy 60 yr old) who has missed him so much.

Sorry if this has already been posted. Children and mental health:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/22/life-long-damage-inflicted-children-lockdown-reveals-study-seen/

12397 ▶▶ spelldispel, replying to James007, 11, #355 of 793 🔗

My son is also showing spectrum signs from not mixing with others, he isn’t autistic but has OCD including excessive hand washing and likes routine (even before all of this) but is now showing other traits too. He is in reception so I’m hoping he will be back 1st June. Go and see his nanna, this regulations are inhuman.

12469 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to spelldispel, 7, #356 of 793 🔗

Yes indeed James, please go. Children spending time with their grandparents is pretty special.

12548 ▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to James007, 20, #357 of 793 🔗

James, you really don’t need to wait for this insane and incompetent government to tell you that your son can see his nana. As at 17th May, only 220 healthy people had died in the 40-59 category, and only 541 in the 60-79 category. To put that in perspective, 50,000 people die on average in the UK every month. 450 people die of cancer every day. 17,000 people on average die of flu every year. If your son’s nana is healthy, she is not at risk. Please don’t wait for June 1st.

12693 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to bluefreddy, 4, #358 of 793 🔗

Thank you very much indeed for your comments. I have been a lockdown sceptic since a week after the government’s terrifying text message. My wife since a couple of weeks ago.
My mother is still afraid. She worries that she might give something to the children as she watches the daily briefings of doom and reads the sensationalised accounts of deaths in the papers.
We had an illegal meetup just me and our baby. Early next week hope for an illegal meetup with son!!

12742 ▶▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to James007, 2, #359 of 793 🔗

Just explain to her that only 3 healthy people under 20 have died of covid, and only 11 with underlying conditions.

12615 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to James007, 5, #360 of 793 🔗

The above is so sad, children who in ordinary times need as much support as we can give them, we are taking everything away. By we I am referring to those who are insisting we continue down the road we are on.

12656 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 14, #361 of 793 🔗

The lockdown is child abuse, The arrangements for sending the little ones back to school are sadistic child torture.

13027 ▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to James007, #362 of 793 🔗

If his nana wants to see him then take him.

I’m glad I don’t have any young kids I would be done for murder.

12379 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 42, #363 of 793 🔗

Just ordered myself an Airfix model helicopter to help keep my chilled throughout lockdown. Model building is good for mindfulness apparently.

I can absolutely guarantee one thing: my model will be much better than Ferguson’s! 😂 😂 😂

12392 ▶▶ spelldispel, replying to RDawg, 7, #364 of 793 🔗

I planted some fruit/vegetables at the beginning, tending to them everyday helps with the frustration.

12593 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to spelldispel, 2, #365 of 793 🔗

I am seeing a lot of that veg growing round here… The suspicious person inside me says thats its all part of the psychological conditioning to make people and the UK more self sufficient…

12389 ScuzzaMan, 6, #366 of 793 🔗

Theme Song Suggestion:

What A Fool Believes , by The Doobie Brothers .

“But what a fool believes, he sees
No wise man has the power to reason away”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKYQNtF11eg

12394 crimsonpirate, 7, #367 of 793 🔗

As my late Father would have said -This is the biggest balls-up since Mons

12395 Mark, replying to Mark, 9, #368 of 793 🔗

The German media also treats the protest movement against lockdown restrictions in Germany as being driven by various fringe groups that are increasingly influenced by “the right” and AfD usually gets a mention.

I have wondered if this might backfire on them rather hard. They think it’s a no lose situation for them. They smear the minority of coronapanic dissidents by association with an existing taboo political group of “far right” dissidents, and simultaneously damage the hated “far right” by associating them with dangerous irresponsibility (in their eyes).

But what they have done for the longer run is associate the far right with the truth on this issue, and draw the attention of a whole new cohort to the basic dishonesty and manipulativeness of the mainstream media – something the far right in every western country has been deeply and bitterly familiar with for a long time (“luegenpresse”). As attention shifts to the costs of the panic and the fear that was whipped up into panic fades, the political winners and losers will look rather different.

12703 ▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to Mark, 2, #369 of 793 🔗

Not a bad point.

Just consider for a moment, like it is possible, that what the luegenpresse has already done is to successfully smear anyone left of Stalin as “far right” and that in fact there is no “far right” of any more than an infinitesimal minority of nazi larpers and similar retards at the extreme low end of the bell curve.

But there IS a large and growing kickback in the centre against the violently crusading shibboleths of the self-styled liberals of the far left: open-tending-to-no borders, mandatory government schooling, mandatory vaccination, mandatory speech (e.g. pronouns), everything for free, rampant misandry, normalising pedophilia, etc.

The corona plandemic is just another egg in this basket of deplorables. It’s an obscene thing in its own right, but it is also part of a far larger and longer-lasting pattern whereby the self-styled progressive left has tried to make all and any dissent into unthinkable anathematic heresy.

Just by the by, the very name “progressive” is a tragic category error, based on the darwinist/marxist delusion of eternal incremental improvement in politics, towards an abstract platonic ideal. But actual human politics moves in cycles and the further anyone pushes the pendulum away from the centre the faster it will swing back once it starts to turn (Trump 2016 so shocked the progressives they are still hysterical about it), and the farther it will overshoot to the other side. if the far left are apoplectic about the mildest of resistance to their designs, they’re in for a terribly bad time when they get to see what comes next. This is the inevitable unavoidable result of trying to crush all dissent – anyone who had any sympathy for them has long since either retired from the field or joined their enemies and is now animated by an equally ruthless quest for payback. And payback, as they say, is a stone cold bitch.

I don’t relish that prospect. I won’t enjoy it much more than they will. But unfortunately it is already baked in to our cultural cake and there’s no avoiding it now. We’re all going to have to eat it.

12927 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ScuzzaMan, 1, #370 of 793 🔗

My dog will eat mine for me.

12401 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #371 of 793 🔗

That poster at the beginning of this blog is very spot on and underlines one of the effects of this continued lockdown – growing unemployment. I shudder to think how many more people will be on the dole queue when we emerge from this Nightmare on Elm Street and when the furloughing scheme ends in October.

12608 ▶▶ Morris_Day, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #372 of 793 🔗

It’s going to happen well before October. The Government is maintaining status quo until 31st July. They’ve not officially announced what happens from Aug-October but we are working on the assumption that it will need to be matched by the Firm in question, with the individual able to work that percentage. Great, but there’s no work for them to do. So people on one month’s notice will be finding out they are are on permanent vacation by the end of June, apart from in large companies when they need to give 45 days consultation, so they’ll find out sooner.

12629 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Morris_Day, 8, #373 of 793 🔗

Reading your comment they’ve DEFINITELY extended forlough simply in order to prolong the unemployment revelation. They anticipate civil disobedience. They could be right.

12688 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 3, #374 of 793 🔗

Just read in the Times that employer contribution to the furlough scheme has now gone up:

“Employers will be required to pay a quarter of the wages of furloughed staff under Treasury plans to unwind the state subsidy scheme.

Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, is expected to announce next week that employers will have to contribute from August as the lockdown is eased.

He will allow employers to take furloughed workers back part time for as many hours a week as they want. All employers using the scheme will be required to make the payments, even if they are still under lockdown.

Companies will also be required to restart paying national insurance but the government will continue to pay pension contributions.

More than eight million people have been furloughed, equivalent to a third of the private sector workforce. The Office for Budget Responsibility has said that it could cost up to £80 billion.

Yesterday Mr Sunak said that Britain was facing a “very serious economic crisis” and jobs would be lost in the “days, weeks and months to come”. He has previously warned that the country is facing an unprecedented recession.”

Agree that the number of people on the dole will go up long before October and this gradual rollback of the scheme will accelerate unemployment figures.

12404 Oaks79, replying to Oaks79, 24, #375 of 793 🔗

The Mirror and Guardian are reporting that Cummings was spoken to by police for driving up north from London to see his parents. This is another top person who has broken the “rules”, if they really believed this virus is as deadly as they have been telling us would they break the rules ?

12411 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Oaks79, 9, #376 of 793 🔗

Now that’s interesting. Can it be purely a coincidence that the @masonmills Twitter account has suddenly shut down.

12432 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #377 of 793 🔗

who is behind masonmills?

12444 ▶▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to arfurmo, 1, #378 of 793 🔗

Rumour is that is Cummings himself.

12418 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Oaks79, 13, #379 of 793 🔗

I’ve just read the report. If Boris does not immediately dismiss him he’s finished as PM. The damage may already have been done if Boris has covered this up.

12430 ▶▶▶ Old fred, replying to Hammer Onats, 6, #380 of 793 🔗

Brilliant – hopefully he will be joining Ferguson!

12594 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #381 of 793 🔗

But Boris himself was driven to his second home to recover.

12486 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Oaks79, 17, #382 of 793 🔗

I suspect this is one of the reasons why lockdowns have so little effect on the spread of the virus. They poll people and high nineties percentages say they are in favour of the lockdown but what they mean is they are in favour of everybody else following the lockdown.

12509 ▶▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to guy153, 8, #383 of 793 🔗

I agree, I think there is a ‘shy tory’ effect in these polls, not to mention the British middle class disease of ‘do as I say, not as I do’.

The reality of all of these lockdown breakers have done what most people are doing i.e. a personal risk assessment…

12582 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Oaks79, 2, #384 of 793 🔗

As I understand it, he claimed he had covid, which is how he managed to disappear from public view.

12657 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #385 of 793 🔗

@And went straight iff to stay with his elderly parents. I’m not saying that was dangerous – obviously said parents came to no harm – but it was agin the rules and that is rank hypocrisy.

12732 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to annie, 1, #386 of 793 🔗

It’s pretty bad. Even I wouldn’t visit my elderly parents if I actually had Covid.

13019 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to guy153, #387 of 793 🔗

The day it was announced he was infected and quarantining, he’d been filmed legging it away from Downing St. He and his wife (also infected, it was claimed) were apparently well enough to drive 250 miles while “ill”. I know symptoms vary in severity but ……

12405 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 13, #388 of 793 🔗

Also if one more person asks me to have a zoom call…….

This could be my opportunity to shed even more ‘friends’. Anyone not willing to speak to me in person is dumped.

12505 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Farinances, 3, #389 of 793 🔗

I was stuck in an all-day Zoom earlier on this week. It’s quite damaging to the old eye-sight….

13020 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to coalencanth12, #390 of 793 🔗

– and the sanity I would imagine.

12448 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Gillian, 6, #392 of 793 🔗

So somebody threw Ferguson under the bus. I wonder who threw Cummings after him by letting the press know about this?

12507 ▶▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to CarrieAH, 7, #393 of 793 🔗

I don’t think he has many friends among Tory MP’s – the quarantine thingy, which is one of his big schemes, has gone down like a cup of sick. Interesting this should be revealed as backbench Tories become restive….

12537 ▶▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to coalencanth12, 1, #394 of 793 🔗

Do you have a source for that being one of his ideas?

12551 ▶▶▶▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Beefy, 4, #395 of 793 🔗

The Torygraph has covered it a couple of times, possible the Mail as well. Cummings is apparently a lockdown-o-phile, presumably as it goes down well on faceache.

12556 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to coalencanth12, 4, #396 of 793 🔗

Thanks. I think he would have been seduced by the tech bros who ‘understand exponential growth’ but don’t understand disease or science. Loads of the silicon valley twats popped up early on.

12562 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Beefy, 3, #397 of 793 🔗

Yeah, I think it was those types pushing the “hammer and dance” bullshit that sounded ever so clever and cool to their tech pals, but led to the disaster we’re living through now.

12453 Gillian, replying to Gillian, #398 of 793 🔗

Beautiful scenery….ruined!

12488 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Gillian, 1, #399 of 793 🔗

Please ignore. Picture subject to copyright so not posted. It was a beautiful Scottish mountain scene despoiled by an NHS heroes placard.

12462 Will Jones, replying to Will Jones, 1, #400 of 793 🔗

Surely NYC and Spain have higher IFRs than 0.26 when you divide their deaths by the proportion of the population with antibodies?

12477 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Will Jones, 1, #401 of 793 🔗

Yes, most likely because the deaths are in the hospitals and care homes and the antibodies are in the society outside. Not the same populations so you can’t just divide one by the other, and will get an overestimate if you do.

It also may be that not everyone who was infected has antibodies, although most of the IFR studies based on antibodies land at around 0.2%.

12478 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Will Jones, 5, #402 of 793 🔗

Not sure what you are getting at here. It appears likely the antibody numbers are not at all reliable as a guide to who has had this disease.

And the ifr isn’t an inherent, constant feature of the disease from one population to another, it will vary according to the context it is operating in. In particular in the case of this disease the age breakdown will dramatically affect the population ifr, and so will things like racial demographics, population health etc., not to mention policy responses which as we have seen can dramatically worsen death rates.

12495 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 1, #403 of 793 🔗

The best estimate of the IFR without using antibody tests is Iceland, where we know it’s somewhere much less than 0.55%.

Most of the antibody studies give you around 0.2% if you look at Ioannidis’s most recent paper. If only half of infections make antibodies it will be even lower.

But it often works out apparently higher in places that were more overwhelmed. The most likely explanation is that the infection rate is much higher inside the hospitals than outside resulting in an overestimate. You’re dividing deaths in the hospital by infections outside it. The infection rate in the enclosed environment of the hospital will be higher.

Another possibility which was mentioned in the Gupta interview is whether higher viral load means worse outcome. This would be a double whammy for vulnerable people who catch it in hospital.

In NYC we have a PFR of about 0.12% so the IFR should be at least twice that. If enough other evidence says that’s still too high for their population (obese and BAME but not that old) then we have to wonder about viral load or perhaps even counterproductive treatments.

12479 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Will Jones, 3, #404 of 793 🔗

I believe it’s because they know many people have had it yet don’t have antibodies, because their innate immune system dealt with it. Prof Karol Sikora talks about it in this clip from today –

https://twitter.com/ProfKarolSikora/status/1263810622430511106

12502 ▶▶ Beefy, replying to Will Jones, 1, #405 of 793 🔗

Many more people have had the disease and not produced antibodies. In particular those who have had a mild illness or no symptoms.

12602 ▶▶ Fin, replying to Will Jones, 4, #406 of 793 🔗

An absence of antibodies is not proof that the subject has not been infected.

A recent Spanish antibody survey showed 17% of subjects, known to have been Covid-19 positive, had no detectable antibodies.

12729 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Fin, #407 of 793 🔗

Very interesting, I didn’t know anyone had done this yet. Do you have a link?

12464 TJN, replying to TJN, 11, #408 of 793 🔗

YouTube’s Red Pen

It looks as if YouTube have now removed episodes 1, 2 and 5 of Perspectives on the Pandemic – that’s John Ioannidis’ first interview, and both interviews by Knut Wittkowski. Shame on them – whoever those nameless, faceless, gutless, ignorant individuals are.

I don’t normally wish ill on individuals, but …

Episode 8 is now up, but I haven’t watched it yet.

12557 ▶▶ Angela, replying to TJN, 6, #409 of 793 🔗

Utube is owned by Google which is owned by Alphabet (which also owns pharmaceutical companies) whose founder Larry Page in 2018 partnered with Bill and Melinda Gates in developing a universal flu vaccine …. and now a coronavirus vaccine? There’s a lot of money at stake, and if you control the media would you allow anything to jeopardise it? https://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-gates-donate-12-million-fund-research-universal/story?id=54788051

12574 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to TJN, 2, #410 of 793 🔗

Are they available on alternative platforms such as BitChute?

12665 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #411 of 793 🔗

According to the info at the top of episode 8, these previous episodes are still available on the Pandemics Facebook page. They also did a transcript of episode 2 soon after that was taken down. So this material won’t actually be lost.

I don’t know if the ‘Streisand Effect’ works with scientific material. It would be nice to think it did.

What gets me is that Dr Wittkowski has been proved very largely correct, and organisations like WHO, to whom YouTube say they are adhering, have been consistently and dangerously wrong.

I’m not a fan of conspiracy theories, but this stinks. I do wonder if there is a China connection in there, and that is the pressure YouTube is aligning towards. I just don’t know. But there must be some explanation somewhere.

12727 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to TJN, 4, #412 of 793 🔗

Be very afraid of this CENSORSHIP under our noses.

12467 Tyneside Tigress, 3, #413 of 793 🔗

While we are digesting Dominic Cummings, it would appear Sir Keir is being outed for school hypocrisy:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/22/sir-keir-starmer-reveals-children-have-school-calls-consensus/

Comments not very encouraging – pointing out his wife is a part-time occupational therapist. Key worker indeed!

12468 Carausius, replying to Carausius, 19, #414 of 793 🔗

On the BBC 6 o’clock news tonight the David Shukman piece talked about the theories concerning children picking up the virus at school, and taking it home to infect their families. Since they have presumably since time immemorial been doing this with flu (and perhaps even inadvertently being responsible for some flu deaths among the elderly) and no doubt countless other ‘bugs’, why has this suddenly become so serious a problem that schools might need to remain closed? Especially considering that the evidence for children passing on COVID-19 is so slight anyway?

12485 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Carausius, 4, #415 of 793 🔗

Chidren are super spreaders of the flu, which is extremely dangerous to babies and vulnerable kids as well as the elderly. Plus ten children die every day anyway, as a sad matter of course, and one fifth of them from, you guessed it, respiratory viruses.

12490 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Carausius, 28, #416 of 793 🔗

Fuck the BBC. Whatever they say. The last two months should never be forgotten, and any shit they come out with now

12476 Oaks79, 9, #417 of 793 🔗

Interestingly at the beginning of the new ‘Perspectives on the Pandemic’ (by Journeyman Pictures) it says “Stand by for an explosive investigation, coming soon”

12480 Mark, replying to Mark, 23, #418 of 793 🔗

This whole coronapanic has been a massive test of judgement and leadership. Sadly for us, it appears basically our entire senior political class comprehensively failed the test. We are left looking for those who failed the least badly, and those more fringe figures who might have come out of it with some credibility.

Within the Cabinet, Toby suggests here that Johnson, Hancock and Gove are the irredeemable failures. Are there any Cabinet members who have shown any public signs of getting a grip (beyond vague, limp-wristed protestation of the Sunak variety, though he’s probably the least damaged of the top level, and next in line for the top job)? In other parties, the leaderships as far as I have seen have all been if anything worse than the Tories, criticising the government for not going far enough in their hysterical self-destruction. Certainly Starmer and Sturgeon have enthusiastically disqualified themselves from any possible respect as leadership figures, for anyone properly concerned about this issue. Have there been any dissenting figures in the leadership circles of the other major parties?

And I end my comment like Cato on Carthage .

Again, I say: Hancock, Gove, Johnson. Never forget, never forgive.

12549 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 7, #419 of 793 🔗

I can’t see much to choose between them. A few Tory backbenchers have been quietly pushing back but no-one has spoken out. Sadly a crucial test which would have been a vote in Parliament on the extension of the “Emergency period” doesn’t need to happen for at least another 4 months. I understand in Spain it required explicit renewal every 3 weeks.
I certainly will not ever forgive or forget, though as you say the other lot would have been worse. I have not seen any serving politician in the UK make any public statement to be proud of.
All that springs to mind is Trump: “We’re reopening, vaccine or no vaccine”. Pity he doesn’t have the ability to persuade anyone other than those who already support him.
I fixed the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est

12558 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #420 of 793 🔗

A depressing reality.

[Left a quotation mark in the link address, looks like. Doh!]

12612 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to Mark, 2, #421 of 793 🔗

Don’t forget Priti Patel.

12617 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RDawg, 4, #422 of 793 🔗

I’ve got her on the list.
They’ll none of them be missed.

12658 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, #423 of 793 🔗

Chop it off!

12687 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Mark, 4, #424 of 793 🔗

Over Brexit, Conservative MPs were leaving their party. Ministers resigned. Surely what the government has done now makes Brexit look a relatively minor thing after all. But where is the dissent? Lord Sumption’s last piece suggested some MPs agreed with him but were afraid to do anything about it.
My MP said he was “lobbying” the government to “loosen” the lockdown. To me that sounds week. What does “lobbying” mean in practice? Is it having a quiet word saying “sorry to bother you, we are sure aren’t we – that we’ve got this right?”

12491 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 34, #425 of 793 🔗

While on my government-allotted exercise slot this afternoon i ran across an odd bit of signage on a pavement refurb job:

comment image

Which is truly a bizarre thing to be publicising about your workforce.

As there was nobody at work when i passed, i have had to imagine what the labourers looked like, and think it must be something like this:

comment image

12501 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Edgar Friendly, 11, #426 of 793 🔗

It’s probably to stop middle class do-gooders from causing them grief!!

12508 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Edgar Friendly, 6, #427 of 793 🔗

It’s fun to stay at the YMCA…

12522 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Edgar Friendly, 3, #428 of 793 🔗

LOOOL!!!! That said it could be a way to placate the Covid Gestapo.

12650 ▶▶ Hal9000vMajorTom, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #429 of 793 🔗

It’s a fairly explanatory piss-take!

12513 Sam, replying to Sam, 11, #430 of 793 🔗

Maybe I’m missing something, but why can’t people returning to the UK take a test for the virus, thus removing the need for everyone to self-isolate? Would the cost of testing everyone entering the country outweigh the potential income from tourism, and if so, subsidise the cost through an increase in the cost of travel tickets, or such?

12520 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Sam, 3, #431 of 793 🔗

It takes a couple of weeks to get the test results back anyway so it wouldn’t help all that much. Also they can’t be arsed. Maybe they’re hoping people will just pay the £1000.

12529 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to guy153, 12, #432 of 793 🔗

This is the problem – rich people will. Or take two weeks unpaid holiday. So basically only rich people will be able to travel.

12534 ▶▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to Farinances, 5, #433 of 793 🔗

I work from home so I would just fill my freezer and not make plans for two weekends. Not an option for the working class but fuck them eh?

13024 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #434 of 793 🔗

And business trips – which means the £1000 will be passed onto the consumer, ie us.

12532 ▶▶▶ A13, replying to guy153, 7, #435 of 793 🔗

I think that Handjob said today that his masters at the Big Pharma just developed a test that can give results under 20mins.
Yes, it would make a lot more sense than 14 days quarantine.

I can imagine airport surcharge for the test or airlines like Ryanair trying to make money on it.

12555 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to guy153, 6, #436 of 793 🔗

It takes 4 hours to turn them around where I work.

12560 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Cruella, 1, #437 of 793 🔗

That would be much better. But you still might not test positive for a week or two after getting infected (just because the virus hadn’t replicated inside your body enough to be detectable).

12908 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam, replying to guy153, #438 of 793 🔗

Can you be carrying the virus for more than two weeks without showing symptoms and then still become ill from it?

12975 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sam, 1, #439 of 793 🔗

I think that would be unusual. Your chances of testing positive in a PCR test are at their highest a few days after symptoms start, which usually about a week after exposure. Although you can of course test PCR positive without ever having any symptoms at all.

12552 ▶▶ BobT, replying to Sam, 11, #440 of 793 🔗

Sam, you are going down a dangerous path, be very careful. You should well know that all common sense, logic or reason was made illegal by our Dear Leaders some months ago. If the members find out about this brazen display of common sense you could be reported and could suffer being labelled a pariah, be lynched or worse.

12909 ▶▶▶ Sam, replying to BobT, #441 of 793 🔗

Wise words, Bob, wise words. Thank you for the warning and steering me straight. I will go back to shouting at clouds.

12601 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to Sam, 2, #442 of 793 🔗

Iceland now says it is open for tourism. You can either go into quarantine or take a test on arrival. If they can manage it…..

12584 ▶▶ A13, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #444 of 793 🔗

This is brilliant! thanks for sharing.

12659 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #445 of 793 🔗

I notice it says that Imperial College is developing a vaccine.
Be afraid. e very afraid. This vaccine could kill up to half a million people.

12547 Mark, replying to Mark, 39, #446 of 793 🔗

Lockdown scepticism goes mainstream. The big guns are now saying what we’ve been saying all along:

Lockdowns failed to alter the course of pandemic and are now destroying millions of livelihoods worldwide, JP Morgan study claims

•JP Morgan research said infection rates had fallen since lockdowns were eased
•It suggested the virus ‘has its own dynamics’ which are ‘unrelated’ to lockdowns
•Report said they were imposed with little thought of ‘economic devastation’

Again, I say: Hancock, Gove, Johnson. Never forget, never forgive.

12611 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to Mark, 22, #447 of 793 🔗

Great spot Mark. I really hope this makes it into the mainstream. What we need is this sort of stuff to be broadcast on BBC, Sky News etc. That will be a game changer.

My brother has been saying to me all along, the truth will come out eventually. They will figure it out.

I am dreaming of that moment I see the headline splashed across all the tabloids:

“Lockdowns had ZERO effect on stopping virus!” That will be our Hallelujah moment! I am waiting for that sucker punch moment, so I can send it to all my mates who basically disowned me for speaking out, and I will say, “I f**king told you so! I f**king told you! You were completely duped. Your apology is welcome.” I will have the smuggest grin on my face for a week, at least.

12616 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RDawg, 10, #448 of 793 🔗

What I hope this is a sign of is that some big money is going to be getting behind discrediting the whole idea of lockdown, which hopefully will contribute to making your dream come true, Dawg… 🙂

#yourdreamismydream

Again, I say: Hancock, Gove, Johnson. Never forget, never forgive.

12620 ▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Mark, 18, #449 of 793 🔗

Don’t forget Patel. She is the one who said, “Social distancing is here to stay.” Hopefully she won’t be.

12621 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RDawg, 7, #450 of 793 🔗

Yes she’s definitely one for exemplary treatment in the show trials. Just keeping the focus tight on the top three “hawks”.

12636 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 4, #451 of 793 🔗

+ Again, I say: Hancock, Gove, Johnson. Never forget, never forgive.

Ftfy.

12628 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 10, #452 of 793 🔗

See this is where “follow the money” plays to our advantage.
JP Morgan wanna make some money. They can’t do that without the world economy as a functioning, viable, living breathing entity. There is no economy when people are locked in their houses.

12700 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark, 5, #453 of 793 🔗

It’s good if the big guns are now saying what we’ve been saying. I suspect that as the headlines shift from the virus to the aftershocks – growing unemployment, more business closures, more people dying of cancer and strokes among others, a spike in suicide rates and even the catastrophic effects of the lockdown on children’s development (I came across a headline saying that a child’s development during this time has stalled so badly that it will take years to undo or not at all), there will be growing clamour to end the lockdown and ditch social distancing.

The MPs from the old red wall should be leading the charge because they should be aware that the longer this continues, their constituents will be even more restless than they were in the run up to Brexit.

As that old saying goes – the truth will set us free.

Let’s hope this is the start of the push back.

12554 Sylvester W, 1, #454 of 793 🔗

Theme tune recommendations. “You’re Not Very Well” The Charlatans, “The Only Living Boy In New York”, S&G (sarcasm against the hysteria), “Patience” Guns n’ Roses, “My Sweet Lord” The Beatles (for Lord Sumption).

12576 A13, replying to A13, 41, #455 of 793 🔗

“We shouldn’t indulge this deluded two-metre social distancing rule any longer”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/22/shouldnt-indulge-deluded-two-metre-social-distancing-rule-longer/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr
Someone finally calling social distancing complete bullshit.

“social distancing is a fantasy. There, I’ve said it, and now you’ve heard it, you can’t unhear it. Let’s stop pretending that this is going to work. It isn’t. Let go of the comfort blanket because like it or not, every individual citizen is going to have make their own risk assessments, use their common sense and make their own decisions about how to live their lives.”

Yes, let’s stop pretending that this will be a new normal. It’s abnormal.

12586 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to A13, 14, #456 of 793 🔗

A good article. The sensible majority of the British public will bring this to an end, with or without government permission. It’s already clear that the Police are now unable to control the situation- I doubt if even they believe the bullshit coming out of No 10. The corona cowards can just continue to hide under their blanket while the rest of us get in with our lives.

12704 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #457 of 793 🔗

The police have admitted that it is unenforceable and over the last few days, I’ve seen it gone outside the window. Many sensible people realise that social distancing was a load of baloney and delusional. Hopefully common sense will prevail, if Italian regions have began defying central government, won’t be surprised if the Great British Public do as well.

12668 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to A13, 3, #458 of 793 🔗
13022 ▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Sarigan, 2, #459 of 793 🔗

I’ve been saying it all along A HUG IS HEALTH!!!

Count me in.

12724 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to A13, 3, #460 of 793 🔗

I see a lot more people getting together. Good on them

12765 ▶▶ Paul, replying to A13, 1, #461 of 793 🔗

The really strange thing around here,the East Midlands,is that in the past couple of weeks I have noticed more people doing this distancing crap than in all the previous weeks and the favoured distance seems to be at least 10 feet !,yesterday my dad nearly ran over a chap that suddenly stepped out into the road to avoid a woman on the pavement !.

12591 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 13, #462 of 793 🔗

Article in the Guardian about mask wearing in the US.

“Meanwhile, Donald Trump finally caved and wore a face mask yesterday – something he didn’t want to “give the press the pleasure of seeing”. But while it is gratifying to see the emperor finally forced to wear clothes, you’ve got to wonder to what extent the virus will spread thanks to the actions of citizens insisting on protecting their “freedom” over the right of others not to get sick.”

The writer makes Trump’s point for him. The emperor’s new clothes reference doesn’t disguise that for her it’s “gratifying” to see him “forced” to capitulate. So she confirms that for ‘liberals’, masks are a way of forcing everyone to comply and be seen to comply.

12603 ▶▶ gary2965, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #463 of 793 🔗

While he is now wearing a mask, not so bad in my opinion, he has apparently said he will not allow lockdowns should a second wave emerge. If he holds true to that then I’m quite reassured. Should I second wave arrive I’d be glad to know that the most powerful man in the world is now interesting in fighting the virus in his country rather than in letting governors cause local economic ruin, destruction of human rights and mass deaths to preventable causes.

12839 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to gary2965, #464 of 793 🔗

Why, oh why, do you consider Trump the most powerful man in the world ?

12867 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to gary2965, 2, #465 of 793 🔗

Masks don’t work against viruses. Period.

12627 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #466 of 793 🔗

Apparently these people only care about civil liberties when it suits them.
They are so utterly mired in political spite that police could literally drag them out of their beds, strip search them, forcibly corona test them, then tattoo their immunity status on their wrists, and it would be fine so long as the police officers in question were sure to repeat ‘Orange man bad’ consistently along with the mantra, “don’t worry we’re protecting other people from getting sick as and when you leave next leave your house”.
See….. where does this stop? Would they approve a child being taken away from its infected parents by force in order to ‘protect’ it I wonder? What about their children being taken away from them?

12670 ▶▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to Farinances, 3, #467 of 793 🔗

A bill has just been passed in New Zealand giving police the authority to enter any residence without a warrant. Doubt that will ever be repealed when this nonsense is over.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1…

12778 ▶▶▶ Angela, replying to Farinances, #468 of 793 🔗

It’s already the law in the US

12868 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Farinances, #469 of 793 🔗

They’ve been doing that (taking children away) in the US at the southern borders for over a year.

12921 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #470 of 793 🔗

Not in the name of “health”. Shitty immigration policy is not the same thing

12923 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #471 of 793 🔗

Actually that’s kinda my point. These ‘lefties’ would be worried about those children. But not worried about their own as the state barges into their homes in order to check that they are literally fit parents, apparently.

12595 Mark, replying to Mark, 21, #472 of 793 🔗

Fights break out on the streets of Malaga as drinkers do battle with chairs and wheelie bins as bars reopen after lifting of lockdown

•Violence happened outside pubs along the popular Paseo de Pedregalejo strip
•In videos shared on social media, people can be seen throwing bins and chairs
•Disruption escalated 48 hours into phase one of Malaga’s coronavirus exit plan

It’s great to see at least some places getting back to the old normal…. 😊

12642 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Mark, 3, #473 of 793 🔗

Back to normal then.

But i do also suspect all that pent up steam has simply been let loose as well.

This will happen everywhere… Giving more fuel to the lockdown martyrs

13038 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ianp, #474 of 793 🔗

“Giving more fuel to the lockdown martyrs”
I was just thinking that.

12646 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mark, 19, #475 of 793 🔗

Not quite in this Malaga league I know, but on hearing Priti Patel waffling on about quarantine and basically destroying my hopes of getting back to my family in Greece and my little summer home there, I threw a bottle of wine across the room (which shattered) and just shouted and shouted and shouted. I haven’t been so angry in years. I understand now how someone can murder through sheer rage. All the pent-up nonsense and anger of the last few weeks came pouring out. I’m usually a very mild polite person but this is changing me, even at my ripe old age. I think there will be riots soon in the streets in Britain if this nonsense doesn’t stop soon. I can feel it bubbling beneath the surface now, waiting to erupt when there is mass starvation and huge unemployment.

12660 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 13, #476 of 793 🔗

I know exactly how you feel, Carrie. I could kill too.
One thing it has made me understand is why people joined the resistance in Nazi-occupied countries despite the awful risks. They just could not stand seeing the loathsome brutes crawling all over their country. I could cheerfully throw a bomb now myself, and I’ve always been a peaceable citizen – just as many resistance workers had been.

12728 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #477 of 793 🔗

I feel for you and hopefully you can still join your family in Greece.

I won’t be surprised if there will be rioting if this goes on and on. It is said that the British are not like the French – the former express their displeasure via the ballot box (ex. Brexit and 2019 General Election) but there’s always a first time this might tip the GBP over the edge and the result won’t be pretty.

12739 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #478 of 793 🔗

Have the French simply capitulated and given up….? They did have previous form from those lorry blockades from whenever it was. Or was that typical trade unionism? That all seems to have evaporated from them. Well done to some of the Germans, a country well aware of their recent fascist Nazi past, I was there recently before lockdown, very nice people, stereotypically efficient (!), and acutely understand that this fascist horror must never ever be allowed to happen again.

It will blow up in the UK soon, I am giving it 1-2 weeks max

12741 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ianp, 2, #479 of 793 🔗

If there are any protests in France, they’re not being reported in the MSM. And those lorry blockades in the past have been typical trade unionism. That said won’t be surprised if the French do riot – their economic contraction is some of the worst in Europe and with already a high youth unemployment and Macron’s hammering of those in the countryside, maybe its only a matter of time before the volcano erupts.

12838 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #480 of 793 🔗

The yellow vests are continuing – though it is hard to assess properly as the MSM here don’t cover them.

12842 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #481 of 793 🔗

Yes I’ve heard of that too but again trouble is the MSM ignore them so we don’t know the full situation.

12864 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #482 of 793 🔗

I’ve felt much like that about Priti Patel since she surfaced in the public sewer. Made worse by her siphoning off Third World aid to Israel, for which she got the boot. Moral: never let a good sacking get in the way of your crazed ambitions. After all Johnson got sacked twice as a reporter – for lying. Bit naive to think he’s stopped now.

12599 Bryan Tookey, 5, #483 of 793 🔗

Very interesting to read about Prof Gupta’s take. I am interested to know if London’s low R value is related – it is very low. Maybe London is approaching herd immunity: it has an R value of 0.4 – half the rest of the country and a C-19 antibody detection rate of 17%, 3-4 times the rate of the rest of the country.
I know 17% is a much lower level for herd immunity than anyone would have predicted before this crisis hit. But there are plausible reasons why herd immunity can be attained at c. 20%: one is that some people’s T cell immue response kills the virus before antibodies can be made (see this paper in the journal cell: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867420306103 ) and so Tcell immunity + 20% antibodies gets to herd immunity.
Another plausible reason is that altered behaviour and restricted interactions forces down the herd immunity.
I hope it is the former!

12600 LiamH, replying to LiamH, 4, #484 of 793 🔗

There was a a study from Oxford looking into conspiracy theories during the pandemic, apparently only about 50% of people think the virus is fully natural, another 20% think its hard to be sure. A large minority believe the anti-vaccine or “Bill gates is behind it all” suppositions. Some think, quite bizarrely in my opinion, that a vaccine exists already but is being covered up. Worryingly only a small number seem alert to the abuses of state control and mass surveillance being perpetrated during the manmade panicdemic lockdown crisis which surrounds the pesky and probably natural viral pandemic.

The authors then, worryingly, express concerns about how belief in conspiracy theories is correlated to people not obeying draconian decrees against their freedom. Its not surpirsing, or concerning, that people who believe conspiracies are less likely to roll over, though it is nice to see a study proving it rather than us just expecting it. It is concerning to see the level of hate that the media has stirred up around this fact that conspiracy theorists don’t comply, no doubt the zealots are going to use this published paper as an excuse for working towards their desires of total censorship by the state. And concerning to see media coverage expressing concerns about the opinions of the public after results come out from a psychological study, remember how psychology and psychiatry have been abused to aid the groundwork in developing guantanamo bay torture methods and the soviet diagnosis of “sluggish schizophrenia” applied to dissidents, the noble work of scientists in fields relating to the mind is very easily perverted beyond their intentions of simply finding correlations and understanding from which to publish papers and improve the understanding of the high-level workings of our most perplexing organ.

Regrettably this was only a UK study, so no look at how public belief in conspiracy theories (very strongly related to distrust in government, one assumes, and the paper proves) varies depending on what level of mess government policy creates in their country. I do have to wonder whether governments which didn’t go mad with lockdowns have less spread of conspiracy theories, and hence better compliance with the less draconian but more effective public health measures like keeping a respectful distance from passersby or not touching door handles too much or avoiding going to work if coughing. None of the media coverage follows this thought up though, perhaps there is a chance though that by abusing civil liberties with lockdowns, and generating mass unemployment giving previously active people nothing to do but share conspiracy theories online*, lockdowns have actually reduced public willingness to take small sensible steps to prevent transmission of the SARS COV 2 virus.

*Study also found those who beleive conspiracy theories share them more than people who beleive the official explanations, no suggestions as to cause but why would anyone share the official explanation when they know that so many arond them already have heard it

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-05-22-conspiracy-beliefs-reduces-following-government-coronavirus-guidance

Paper in PSYCHOLOGICAL MEDICINE seems to be open access on a Cambridge.org website, and has a nice compendium of the exact questions used in the study and the demographics asked.

12773 ▶▶ Angela, replying to LiamH, 6, #485 of 793 🔗

While some so called ‘conspiracy theories’ are bizarre, many are actually rooted in truth. I used to be brainwashed because as an ‘educated, sensible professional’ I could not fathom the possibility that things were not as they seemed, nor that authorities and media could be such blatant liars.

Once you drill down beyond what the media or a ‘conspiracy’ site says and get to the facts, the picture starts looking very different. You discover the tangible business connections between certain people and organisations….the financial implications of those associations….the powerlessness of many governments against multinationals. Anyone with an enquiring mind and a bit of logic would probably come to the same conclusion.

One of the most powerful tools to discredit is through the use of labels ie ‘conspiracy theorist’ (perhaps a person that questions the narrative) or ‘anti-vaxxer’ (perhaps pro safe vaccine schedule and no nasty ingredients). It’s hard to take a ‘crackpot’ seriously.

This is what they are doing to the scientists who disagree with lockdown, the use of masks, etc etc.

There is a move to try to profile lockdown sceptics as crackpots too. They are trying to associate us with ‘anti-vaxxers’, ‘conspiracy theorists’ etc so that we can also be labelled as somehow not ‘with it’, mentally unsound, etc. I guess if you can’t round dissenters up and put them away like in China, you have to use other tools.

12859 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Angela, 3, #486 of 793 🔗

‘Anti- vaxxers’ and ‘conspiracy theorists’ implies that you are anti-establishment which is fine by me, since establishment in turn implies stagnation. You need to turn soil to keep it fertile. Pro vaxxers and blanket conspiracy deniers would seem quintessentially pro status quo.

12869 ▶▶▶▶ Angela, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 4, #487 of 793 🔗

Very true. The media always try to lump any dissenters together (ie lockdown sceptics = anti-vaxxers = conspiracy theorists) but the main thing they have in common, in my opinion, is an enquiring mind and a strong bullshit radar.

12796 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to LiamH, 6, #488 of 793 🔗

It’s amazing when research is done, papers released under FOI requests come into the open, whistleblowers speak out and so on how many conspiracy theories end up as conspiracy facts.

12835 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #489 of 793 🔗

As I saw yesterday (maybe on here) –

conspiracy theory has become conspiracy practice.

12808 ▶▶ Jennie, replying to LiamH, 3, #490 of 793 🔗

I love it when anyone brings out the phrase Conspiracy Theorist. It was created to be used as a Weaponised term to discredit all those ‘loons’ who didn’t believe Oswald shot JFK.
Here’s some off-the-top-of-my-head descriptions of people who question MSM / Government / Multi-National Global Corporations:

– Alternative Viewpoint-er
– Indepedent Thinker
– Narrative Questioner
– Bigger Picture-er
-Wider Perspective-er

As if I needed to point out how often Courts are full of people conspiring for some kind of reason or gain.

12604 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 13, #491 of 793 🔗

If masks or face coverings are so important in certain situations why is no-one telling us what specification these devices have to meet (or exceed).

The leg of an old pair of work jeans turned into ask face covering is just that, a bit of a pair of old jeans.

Everything we use from Arm chairs to Zimmer frames have to be manufactured to meet certain criteria (fire resistance for the arm chair, weight bearing ability for the Zimmer frame.

But a CV19 face covering mask or muzzle can be made from loo roll and no-one would be able to say anything as we have not been told these items need to be made to meet any standard. I believe N95 is the standard medical masks need to meet, but these have to be saved for medical professionals,

Just getting that off my chest as it were.

12626 ▶▶ Angela, replying to Dave #KBF, 16, #492 of 793 🔗

Masks don’t protect you from anything because they harbour germs and recycle them into your nose. Nobody knows what they are talking about these days.

12643 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #493 of 793 🔗

Masks have always been bullshit. Never wear one, it will kill your immune system

But there is a delicious irony here, if some health and SAFEty jobsworth took establishments who foolishly attempt to force people to wear one, to task.

12661 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #494 of 793 🔗

The DT. recommended adapting an old sock. Didn’t specify whether or not said sock ought to be washed first.
I read somewhere that some people are using dust masks, which are designed to filter out dust, but let all other particles pass through as freely as possible, in either direction.
Or you can buy a ‘fashionable’ mask in chic colours, which makes you look like a total goon, as if you sneezed then forgot to put away your handkerchief.
Then there are the full-on ones that look like a pig’s snout. I keep meeting a man who wears one of those. He’s enormously fat…

12666 ▶▶ Beefy, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #495 of 793 🔗

Tbey are to coax the bedwetters out of the house.

12678 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to Dave #KBF, #496 of 793 🔗

I heard yesterday that designer label masks are now being marketed.

12764 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Old fred, 1, #497 of 793 🔗

It was only a matter of time… Opportunists rather than necessarily lockdownistas.

12832 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ianp, #498 of 793 🔗

One of my (ex- ?) friends was disporting one with his footie team colours on. This was a few weeks ago.

12888 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Old fred, 2, #499 of 793 🔗

I could never begrudge anyone the freedom to part imbeciles from their money.

12735 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #500 of 793 🔗

They don’t work. My dentist told me that their effectivity is only less than 10 minutes then you have to change them. Plus a whole load of research suggests that they actually impede your breathing and cause a whole load of respiratory issues.

12799 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #501 of 793 🔗

I think the idea of a mask is just that it basically makes you breathe out to the sides. So if you’re talking to someone you’re less likely to give them a virus. But people behind you and to your sides had better watch out. If you’re a dentist or a surgeon it means you aren’t breathing into the area that you’re working on which is likely to be sensitive to infection. So long as it stops air and droplets it should be OK.

No reason to wear one if you’re going to the shops or something unless you actually have a cold.

12806 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to guy153, 2, #502 of 793 🔗

According to one study (can’t remember who did it, probably UCL) stated that even breathing out to the sides could still give other people the virus. Its actually much more effective to stop the droplets and air by using a tissue to catch sneezes then binning it.

Maybe they should bring back those “Catch it, bin it, kill it” adverts.

12857 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #503 of 793 🔗

For those of us of an older persuasion i.e. back in the days of the Hong Kong flu (no lockdown there) it was ‘coughs and sneezes spread diseases, trap your germs in a handkerchief.’

13050 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #504 of 793 🔗

Showing your age now Nigel!

I remember that public info ad. I also remember regularly going to school over the years armed with 3 men’s cotton hankies, all of which would be brought home wet through with coronavirus effluent (snot). They had to be soaked in salt solution overnight, then boiled. Ah the joys of the common cold before we had tissues.

(PS loo paper was Izal, so no we couldn’t use that – it’s like tracing paper.)

12607 rodmclaughlin, replying to rodmclaughlin, -24, #505 of 793 🔗

“A group of researchers at the University of Southampton looked at what difference it would have made if the travel ban and other non-pharmaceutical interventions had been put in place three weeks earlier, as soon as the doctors raised the alarm. They concluded that cases would have been reduced by 95 percent. In all likelihood, the virus would never have made it out of Hubei.”

So ‘lockdown sceptics’ is sceptical about lockdowns, except when it’s convenient to join the Sinophobic crusade being launched by the White House to cover its own incompetence.

12623 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to rodmclaughlin, 8, #506 of 793 🔗

Eh?

12630 ▶▶ 4096, replying to rodmclaughlin, 29, #507 of 793 🔗

Oh God, where do you even start?
First of all, it’s unarguable that China is at least in part responsible for the current mess.
If they hadn’t been suppressing all info about the novel cornavirus for so long we would have had more time to prepare which would have reduced the panic factor when making decisions how to respond. We would have also had the chance to start testing earlier and get a more accurate picture of the virus’s spread -we would probably have known earlier e.g. that the virus arrived in Europe in Dec (or earlier?). As it is, we have only learned about it recently which means that we missed loads and loads of infections – this made it look as if IFR was much higher that it is in reality.

Second, the point being made in the column, as I understand it, is that if a lockdown or something of that kind had been imposed at those early stages the virus could have been stopped completely and eliminated from the face of the Earth at a fairly low cost, saving us all a little bit of trouble.

BUT, China did not stop the virus from spreading and by the time western countries started contemplating going into a lockdown it was clear that there were already thousands upon thousands of cases all over the world. Thus eliminating the virus became absurdly impractical – how do you hire so many ‘tracers’ to track the all the people they had been in contact with? Or can you literally weld people inside their homes to stop all the spread? Even if you succeed with either of those, there will certainly be some countries that are less successful so the virus will still be out there – do you stop all international trade or decide to literally destroy some countries’ economies? It all sound ludicrous. Of course, it’s even more ludicrous now with far, far more cases worldwide.

Therefore, in almost every country lockdown was imposed for the sole purpose of slowing NOT stopping the spread so that hospitals could cope.

As we all know, of course, hospitals have not only managed to cope but are now half-empty since it turns out that the virus is much less deadly than initially thought.

Which brings me to the question which, I think, we are all here asking: why we are still in lockdown FFS?

12631 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to rodmclaughlin, 16, #508 of 793 🔗

Fascinating when a ‘person’ projects a ‘phobia’ onto someone else. What does it tell us? I think it tells us that they are the ‘phobic’ one, possibly ashamed of it and desperate to implicate others in their secret shame.

I hadn’t seen much ‘Sinophobia’ around here – until you showed up!

12644 ▶▶ ianp, replying to rodmclaughlin, 11, #509 of 793 🔗

3 weeks earlier than when? I think you will find that’s it’s been spreading in Europe since December (eg. French proof) . Crawl back into your hole please.

12680 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to rodmclaughlin, 6, #510 of 793 🔗

Some tortured thinking in there, mate.

12759 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to rodmclaughlin, 1, #511 of 793 🔗

The Chinese authorities heard about a “mystery illness” from the so-called rumour-mongering doctors at the end of December. The China News Agency reported on the 3rd of January that the authorities were trying to identify the virus that had caused an outbreak of pneumonia in Wuhan. On the 4th of January the South China Morning Post, no doubt with official permission, put up a scary video about this mysterious outbreak even though the first death didn’t actually occur till the 9th of January. The virus looked like a new type of SARS. The original SARS in 2003 had killed a few hundred people and hydroxychloroquine worked well against it. What reason was there to panic? Within a few days of first hearing about the virus the authorities were allowing it to be talked about on the news. They had told the doctors to shut up, but that’s presumably because they wanted to control the narrative. Who else does that? When you consider that countries in Europe had advance warning of what was about to hit them and did nothing to prepare, is it really fair to accuse the Chinese of dithering?

12769 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jane in France, #512 of 793 🔗

They didn’t dither.

THEY COVERED IT UP.

Disagree? Try to find any of those doctors who blew the whistle now. They’re all either dead or have ‘disappeared’.

12873 ▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Farinances, 1, #513 of 793 🔗

Can’t help wishing they’d covered it up a bit better.

12914 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jane in France, #514 of 793 🔗

You know what, we’d be way better off if they had.
Trouble is they realised they couldn’t any more, made that video, and bob’s your uncle. Probs realised that if they were gonna start locking down huge swathes of their population, somebody with a satellite would probably notice.

12609 Oaks79, replying to Oaks79, 30, #515 of 793 🔗

Dr Lass, former Dir-Gen of the Israeli Ministry of Health:
The population is brainwashed, a monstrous hysteria. Gov is afraid of people and draconian measures makes them more hysterical. They feed each other until you reach irrational territory.
Covid Mortality is a fake number. Most people are not dying from Covid. If patients died from leukaemia they put Covid
Covid infection rate is a fake number, because it depends on the number of tests
Many will die from starvation and also from unemployment.
Among Covid deaths, the median age is often higher than the life expectancy of the population
People are brainwashed. They do not listen to the data. And that includes governments
Lockdown cannot change the final number of infected people, just changes the rate of infection

Nothing can justify this destruction of people’s lives. It is unbelievable.

https://t.co/3uqcVN8rBI

12625 ▶▶ Angela, replying to Oaks79, 21, #516 of 793 🔗

A strong convincing leader (I thought Boris was) and powerful balanced and sound evidence would have refuted the orchestrated media circus driving to lockdown. Leaked info indicates that the government was complicit in ‘using the media’ to scare the hell out of the people. Is this some kind of game they are playing with our lives and livelihoods?

12831 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Angela, 2, #517 of 793 🔗

It’s the new world order. It is definitely not going away of its own accord.

Whether you consider it a game to them is an interesting point, but, I would suggest, not the most pressing issue we face. 🙂

13123 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Angela, #518 of 793 🔗

Boris convincing? Leader?? He made it perfectly obvious he was lying throughout the election campaign. Priti Awful’s smirk has nothing on Boris’s !!

12613 JRG, replying to JRG, 15, #519 of 793 🔗

On the contrary, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus is far more culpable than China. True the virus orginated in Wuhan, and the CCP quashed any attempt to alert the outside world, but Tedros’ behaviour was particularly wicked. He had ample warning from Taiwan, but, to quote Mike Pompeo, his “unusually close ties to Beijing” caused the spread. The US should follow an independent enquiry into the WHO with an arrest warrant for Tedros. At best his actions amount to criminal negligence.

12733 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JRG, 6, #520 of 793 🔗

Agree. We should be backing the US to the hilt in pursuit of this. And while we are on, I would like to see a wider investigation of those institutions with connections to WHO/China – The Lancet, certain university research groups with funding and ‘special’ Chinese datasets (Imperial), Gates Foundation, to name a few.

12734 ▶▶ IanE, replying to JRG, 3, #521 of 793 🔗

Hmm, I think he is just a useful (and, doubtless, well-remunerated idiot) for China. The real culprits, imo, are those governments round the world who wimped out of proper thought-out responses once China had let it out to weaken the rest of the world.

12639 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 26, #522 of 793 🔗

Just a thought before I go to sleep. Why did we spend the past ten years enduring austerity measures to reduce the deficit and overall public debt? Especially given that we are now accumulating levels of debt dwarfing that of WW2 borrowing – it kind of makes you think:

1. Austerity was pointless and a complete waste of time? Or if it was necessary we’ve just undone ten years of hardship in less than ten weeks?

2. Debt and borrowing doesn’t seem to be that important after all? With Sunak in charge we really do have a magic money tree.

I’m not an economist, but something does not seem right to me.

12645 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to RDawg, 19, #523 of 793 🔗

There’s nothing right about this situation at all and I keep smelling huge rats. I’d like to think it’s “just” sheer incompetency by the government but as other governments appear to be doing the same thing – pushing the self destruct button – to a greater or lesser degree, then there’s got to be something more sinister at work. I’ve never been one for conspiracy theories but right now there’s certainly something more to this than we are being told.

12649 ▶▶▶ sunchap, replying to CarrieAH, 12, #524 of 793 🔗

I think the “resson” for huge borrowing is 80 years of “socialism lite” and the “me generation”. Debt is a fairly modern phenomenon and today’s voter doesn’t care about the next generation.

But I think the tide is turning on public opnion. The US CDC released it’s latest estimate of the C19 IFR as being 0.26% and a petition/letter signed by hundreds of American doctors calling for an immediate end to lockdowns was released. This petition, which I read, relied on the SPR anti-lockdown site research indicating an IFR of about .16%.

If the world’s largest public health watch dog and the “averageUS GP” have seen the truth – and are not afraid – to state it – I believe the UK enquiry may expose this panic.

12708 ▶▶▶ Max, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #525 of 793 🔗

There is no conspiracy, there has always been a herd instinct for groups of humans to imitate others. We just now live in an interconnected world where the internet magnifies this at speed and out of all proportion. This article (linked to in the main news section) makes a very convincing case https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/lockdowns-are-as-contagious-as-covid

12736 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Max, #526 of 793 🔗

I too prefer cockup over conspiracy here, although the article also does quite a good job of pointing out other drivers towards disaster than following the international herd.

12711 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #527 of 793 🔗

There is definitely something more to it. Follow the money.

12829 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #528 of 793 🔗

“I’ve never been one for conspiracy theories but right now there’s certainly something more to this than we are being told.”.

If only I had a quid for each time I’ve seen normal, sensible, coherent, rational people saying this recently …

It’s no longer about a virus. It’s about a police state, suspension of democracy, economic disaster, and decisions so daft they create cognitive dissidence all by themselves.

12663 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RDawg, 14, #529 of 793 🔗

They panicked. Their actions were not based on reason, but emotion. Whether it was fear of mass deaths or fear of getting the blame for mass deaths , you choose. But either way there’s no point trying to look for sense in the decision to lockdown. It was in the most literal sense, senseless.

12667 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Mark, 4, #530 of 793 🔗

My suspicion is fear of getting the blame. That’s why they’re so reluctant to open up. Everything is politically motivated. Trying to save face, and save votes!

12730 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to RDawg, 2, #531 of 793 🔗

Save face, protect the NHS, save votes: yup, that is about it. BUT, as the consequences unwind, there is surely going to be an enormous backlash.

13128 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RDawg, #532 of 793 🔗

This has to be more about saving face. There’s enough scientific evidence flying around for Boris to reduce the 2m rule to 1m, yet he reinforced it this week, making get-out-of-lockdown impossible for many to achieve.

If it’s simply about saving face, what sense does the new WTF traveler quarantine rule make? None whatsoever, as it makes the government look even more stupid.

Just as Boris laughed in our faces at the election, I suspect he’s doing just the same now but towards what agenda I can’t dare imagine.

13130 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #533 of 793 🔗

oops – about more ^than^ saving face

12682 ▶▶ James007, replying to RDawg, 11, #534 of 793 🔗

Exactly right. I think that the savings from 10 yrs of austerity (~£30b) were burned off within 2-3 weeks of this policy. I think Mark is right that they panicked and feared the blame for mass deaths. Also I think this government craves popularity at all costs. They want to be the saviours of the NHS. They have repeated the 500k deaths figure so that whatever happens it will look like they saved hundreds of thousands of lives and protected “our NHS”

12684 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to James007, 14, #535 of 793 🔗

And not the least shameful thing about this is the basic lack of political competence in the decision, from these supposedly clever “operators”. If there is ever a time to incur temporary unpopularity for a superficially painful, but necessary, policy, it’s one year into a 5 year term with a decent majority.

It absolutely dd not have to be this way!

12841 ▶▶ Angela, replying to RDawg, 1, #536 of 793 🔗

It’s also useful to blame imminent economic collapse (that was going to happen anyway, in the ECB anyway) on something.

12652 nfw, replying to nfw, 13, #537 of 793 🔗

“The Government’s defence is that this [the Imperial College model] was a plausible worst case scenario.”

What a load of rubbish. My 4 year old grand-daughter could have come up with a much worse worst case scenario. Bloody amateurs.

Let’s face it, the cowardly politicians and craven still being paid public servants couldn’t organise a headache in a brewery. Fortunately they had the SS Services (formerly known as police) to assist them in frightening and controlling the masses.

12723 ▶▶ IanE, replying to nfw, 5, #538 of 793 🔗

Quite – and noone published worst-case scenarios (or even best-case scenarios) for likely consequences of Lockdown.

12788 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to nfw, 5, #539 of 793 🔗

If 80% of the UK population (66M) get infected and 1% die the number is 528k. That number is not just plausible it’s a certainty because the math is undeniable. However it is not certain to happen.

And therein lies the problem. In order to counter the improbable certainty you have to prove the negative which everyone should know is impossible.

It’s like somebody saying if you go outside and get murdered you will die then expecting you to prove that you won’t get murdered before you’re allowed out.

12669 gipsy2222, replying to gipsy2222, 23, #540 of 793 🔗

Have there been excess deaths among supermarket workers? They ought to be the most at risk. I suspect they are just fine. Certainly in my local Tesco Express the staff have been wonderful and turned up every day. They put the teachers to shame.

12675 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to gipsy2222, 6, #541 of 793 🔗

Same in my little local Co Op too.

12695 ▶▶ Max, replying to gipsy2222, -3, #542 of 793 🔗

The short answer is yes, retail workers have been suffering significantly above average death rates from Covid19. There is a graph on the News page of this site for May 12th. “Retail sales assistants and cashiers” are one of the worst affected professions, along with care home workers and security guards. In general, the more contact with the (adult) public you have, the higher the risk.

12725 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Max, 6, #543 of 793 🔗

“The short answer is yes, retail workers have been suffering significantly above average death rates from Covid19.”

It might be “significantly above average”, but it’s not particularly significant.

It’s up “significantly” as a percentage, but it’s a percentage of a minuscule number. The average male death rate from covid is given as 9.9 per 100,000, and the male death rate for “Sales Assistants and Retail Cashiers” is given as about 20 per 100,000.

For comparison, the overall death rate for males aged 0-74 in the last quarter of 2019 was 386 per 100,000.

12745 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 5, #544 of 793 🔗

The death rate from Covid in this age group may actually be close to zero. But people who work in shops are probably more likely to be infected with SARS-COV2. If they then die in say a motorbike accident on the way to work they become a Covid death.

12766 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to guy153, 4, #545 of 793 🔗

Ha ha…. And there is exactly the point. Step outside of your house, be run over by a bus on the way to work = died of covid.

12828 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Max, replying to ianp, #546 of 793 🔗

Can you please point me to some evidence of where any road traffic accident death has been ascribed to covid19?
Now it is probably true that covid19 deaths are being over-reported due to the instruction to classify it as the main cause of death where multiple causes are present.
But it does not help the anti-lockdown cause to engage in the same wild exaggerations that are used by the other side.
It would be very complacent to assume no retail workers have died of covid19, any argument that rested on that assumption would be demolished as soon as a single death was confirmed.
The fact is that retail workers, like many other key workers, are exposing themselves to greater risks than others (albeit such risks are still very low) and we should be grateful that they are still doing that and not hiding under their beds like the twitterati.

12861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to Max, 1, #547 of 793 🔗

I think it’s a joke.

12896 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Max, 2, #548 of 793 🔗

I’m not assuming anything. The total number dead with Covid in the UK under 60 without pre-existing conditions is less than 300, out of tens of millions of infections. When the numbers are that low it becomes likely that none of them died of Covid, so I think it’s fair to say that between 0 and 300 have.

So what did those ~300 people die of? I don’t know, but RTAs are fairly high up the list of general background risk for people in that age group.

Nobody is saying the death was ascribed to Covid– the official numbers are just people who died with Covid.

13156 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Max, #549 of 793 🔗

Can you prove that they died OF covid? Or merely with it?

Or can you not see that the increased number is microscopically tiny in the grand scheme of things.

You are falling into the trap of using absolute numbers and selective statistics.

Statistically, when looking at the bigger picture for an entire population, the numbers are totally insignificant

12699 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to gipsy2222, 13, #550 of 793 🔗

I don’t work in a supermarket but I do work in retail. See up to a hundred people a day, in close proximity, and it would appear no one in my work has gone off ill with a respiratory tract infection during the entire lockdown…

12672 paulito, replying to paulito, 6, #551 of 793 🔗

Fernando Simon, advisor to the Spanish government on all things covid, is being sued for wrongful death by a family of a covid victim. Their claim is that he downplayed the seriousness of the threat posed and issued “erroneous and contradictory” directives. It also points to the lack of resources in hospitals. He’s further been accused of infringing worker’s rights due to lack of protective equipment and “condemning millions to unemployment”. And it goes on. He’s also accused of falsifying oficial figures. To top it all off they have requested that he surrender his passport as they consider him a high flight risk owing to the seriousness of the charges against him and that he has lived and worked abroad mostly in African countries.

12721 ▶▶ IanE, replying to paulito, 1, #552 of 793 🔗

Doubtless, lawyers round the world are rubbing their hands!

12674 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #553 of 793 🔗

Don’t you dare sack Dominic Cummings. We need more people showing common sense and making decisions like independent, serious people. We need fewer people trying to please the totalitarian left.
And we need fewer snitches as well. Never mind the R number. We need to get the snitches number down to 0.

12679 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mike Smith, 20, #554 of 793 🔗

Everything I’ve heard says his fingerprints are all over these literally stupid lockdown policies, from the original panic to the fatuous “stable door” quarantine proposal.

Unless all we’ve heard is untrue, and he’s actually been some kind of lone voice of reason trying to restrain the panickers, getting sacked should be only the beginning of what Cummings has coming.

12689 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Mark, 5, #555 of 793 🔗

That’s exactly what was reported:
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-04-28/top-aide-to-u-k-s-johnson-pushed-scientists-to-back-lockdown

And no one denied that aspect of the story.

12694 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sally, 6, #556 of 793 🔗

Not only should he be sacked, he should be hung out to dry and thoroughly scapegoated as well. (I think you could hang a scapegoat out to dry, couldn’t you? Not too ridiculous a mixture?)

12749 ▶▶▶▶ Angela, replying to Sally, 7, #557 of 793 🔗

So Johnson used the scientists to back lockdown and used the media to persuade the public. If true this is sounding more Orwellian every day.

12718 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 4, #558 of 793 🔗

That’s my impression too. I fear that Cummings only cares about short-term popularity for government measures; long term consequences, not so much. Even Brexit was just a route into power for him and Boris.

13133 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #559 of 793 🔗

Cummings is an anarchist. The ridiculous new quarantine rule smells strongly of his sh*t -stirring.

12740 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 2, #560 of 793 🔗

That sounds very plausible to me. Apparently Demis Hassabis was in one of the meetings according to the Bloomberg article (!) I’ve got nothing against Hassabis but he’s the kind of geek Cummings would look up to and is no doubt very much into Covid and climate change and all that stuff, which comes as a package really. I think this explains where Cummings is coming from. Although supposedly an “independent” mind everyone is influenced by their mates.

12762 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mark, 1, #562 of 793 🔗

Sorry previous link didn’t work. The Telegraph are certainly after him.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/22/dominic-cummings-spoken-police-breaching-lockdown-rules/

12824 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to CarrieAH, #563 of 793 🔗

Now it’s getting interesting.

12717 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to Mike Smith, #564 of 793 🔗

What are you on about?

12810 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mike Smith, #565 of 793 🔗

Ummm… Cummings was at the vanguard of demands for earlier and harsher lockdown within the SAGE meetings.

12936 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #566 of 793 🔗

It’s just me and Brendan O’Neill then?

“Dominic Cummings broke the lockdown? Good.”
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/23/dominic-cummings-broke-the-lockdown-good/

12676 Mark, replying to Mark, 38, #567 of 793 🔗

Coronaphobia grips the nation: Britons shun Boris Johnson’s back to work plea because they fear lockdown is being eased too rapidly as a survey reveals most have MORE money in their pockets

Every time I look at another aspect of this disaster, I am brought up short again by the question: “how the f*** did a supposedly conservative government do something so utterly alien and so completely disastrous to every thing conservatives ought to hold dear?”

From financial profligacy to economic mishandling, from sloppy sentimentality to the promotion of idleness and the devastation of small businesses, from actual, almost literal worship of collective healthcare to the acceptance of a role for Big Brother in managing every detailed aspect of our lives, this policy has been a monstrosity and a calamity.

We will be paying its economic and social costs for decades, and the cultural and political precedents set by this lockdown are terrifying.

Just reading in that article the casual presumption that the government will tell us in detail when cafes and restaurants will be allowed to open and where, sets my teeth on edge. It is an outrage and an utter condemnation of both the British government and the British people (for allowing it) that the literally ridiculous 2m separation rule remains in place, more than two weeks after it was revealed that the government knew it had no scientific basis and that it was actually put in place solely because the government viewed the British people with open contempt.

A Labour government at this time would have implemented the same policies, and they would have been no less disastrous, but at least it would have been more understandable, and there might have been a real alternative available in the Opposition. Worship of collective healthcare is second nature to Labour, as is the state bossing people around for the supposed Greater Good, and disliking small businesses in favour of state owned business and big, heavily unionised employers. Government debt and reliance on the magic money tree is Labour’s stock in trade. It is a measure of the depths to which we have fallen that despite the extremity of incompetence displayed by our elected government, the opposition would have been worse.

The Johnson government’s treason has been as much against conservatism as it has been against the country it was supposed to be leading.

Herendetherant. Except for:

Again, I say: Hancock, Gove, Johnson. Never forget, never forgive.

12690 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mark, 31, #568 of 793 🔗

I truly do not understand how so many of the general public don’t realise that what they are getting is not free money! I guess they may be too young to remember the 70s and early 80s, with our 3 day weeks, power cuts, starvation, rubbish piling up in the streets, off the wall unemployment, the country bankrupt, mortgages (if you could get one) at 17% and the most horrendous income tax possible. Because that is what we will be returning to at this rate if they don’t pull themselves together and get back to work.
As someone who has already retired, they could probably accuse me of wanting to throw their lives under the bus, put them in danger whilst I sit at home safely. They would be wrong. I haven’t stopped working since this nonsense began as I have a smallholding with animals and crops and land that need daily care. I have been going to agricultural suppliers, markets, farm supplies, restocking local food outlets, and coming home in the evenings exhausted because at one time I wasn’t allowed my usual handyman help.
This virus has pretty much left the general population now and the public’s risk – if there ever really was one – has practically gone completely. They can come out of their hidey holes now and get this darn country moving again before we lose it all. 😊

12697 ▶▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to CarrieAH, #569 of 793 🔗

CarrieAH – Good for you on the smallholding. Have you seen the Joe Rogan show with Joel Salatin? Just up on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-7O3fOXXKo

12705 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to CarrieAH, 14, #570 of 793 🔗

I agree. Though I think what we went through in the 70s will be a veritable picnic compared to what’s coming. (When I tell my Saturday staff about having to do my homework by candlelight, having ice on the inside of the windows in winter and all the other privations we endured, they look increduous!)

12710 ▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to kh1485, 15, #571 of 793 🔗

I get the impression that a lot of the commentators on this site, not to mention Toby Young himself, are people who remember the seventies. Apart from anything else, you can tell by the standard of English.

12849 ▶▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Jane in France, 3, #572 of 793 🔗

It is notable that all the pro-lockdown rants on the Faecesbook are very poorly spelt.

12712 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 4, #573 of 793 🔗

What with Covid, the AGW insanity and Net Zero, they may discover what it was like in the near future.

12822 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to kh1485, 5, #574 of 793 🔗

Yeah, but they never closed the pubs in the three day week. There I was in Sloane Square (where I worked) drinking pints by candlelight. The very epitome of stoicism.

12770 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #575 of 793 🔗

The ones who are on their free holiday won’t be paying for it… The folk still working will be through income tax increases, as will savers with money tucked away via negative interest rates.

12709 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 10, #576 of 793 🔗

Yes, your ‘supposedly’ is the answer. We haven’t had a Conservative government since Maggie. Ye gods, how we need her now!

12809 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to IanE, 4, #577 of 793 🔗

The truth is she was an outlier… look at the governments of Heath, Home, Macmillan… all spineless Dereks set on mediocrity and managed decline, nary a radical thought between them.

We say that Cameron, May and Johnson’s governments aren’t conservative, but in the grand arc of history, it’s Thatcher and her government that weren’t truly conservative.

12820 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Mark, 6, #578 of 793 🔗

Mark, I am or used to be on the left hand side of the political spectrum and I agree with every word you have said here. Labour would have done the same, but possibly been more authoritarian about it. Until the Blair government (which I loathed) I never associated authoritarianism with the left (Blunkett’s i.d. cards come to mind, but plenty else). I now stand outside political partisanship and like Tom Paine, but less energetically (actually my favourite historical figure), I will fight for justice and liberty (or wail against their foes).

12880 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Mark, #579 of 793 🔗

“Government debt and reliance on the magic money tree is Labour’s stock in trade.” is a myth the Tories like to repeat :-

https://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.com/search?q=labour+debt

12681 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #580 of 793 🔗

Perhaps Macron can save us from coming disastrous quarantine 3rd June. He retaliated against Spain immediately when they imposed quarantine on visitors. I hope he will do this immediately to the UK but with a big stick. Just let diplomats through but everybody else incl. truck drivers to quarantine 2 weeks in France. That will choke off a big part of food import into UK. Then some adults in the room ie. CEOs Tesco, Sainsbury etc could call No 10 and say stop this insanity.

12683 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to swedenborg, 6, #581 of 793 🔗

According to David Starkey, It was Macron’s threat to close the borders that was one of the factors which pushed Boris over the edge to lockdown in the first place.

12706 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Margaret, 4, #582 of 793 🔗

Yes – and we know what Maggie would have told the mini-Napoleon to do!

12772 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Margaret, 2, #583 of 793 🔗

Yes, which is why, despite everything I have been cutting Boris a little bit of slack. It’s a worldwide game being played out

12685 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 23, #584 of 793 🔗

Had this message from our local Business ‘Improvement’ District:

“Businesses are now starting to open in the first phase as per the government’s plan. If you go into a commercial premises and see some mistakes don’t start recording or taking photos to later upload on to social media. Please speak to the owner. We have to help each other. This is new for everyone and business owners will be trying their best to make it safe and get their businesses running again.Let’s help each other through this transition.”

This is going to encourage every little tin-pot little Hitler from miles around. We are a two-man band with a few hours’ help on a Saturday. How the hell are we going to be able to enforce the stupid two metre distancing rule while actually doing our jobs? I am seriously thinking of closing for good. I can’t work like this and I can’t live like this.

12691 ▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 8, #585 of 793 🔗

Chin up kh! Crap as it all is, it can’t go on for much longer. If you can get through the bad times there will be better times in the future. If you could make a go of a business before all this craziness, you’ll be able to make it work afterwards.

12698 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 15, #586 of 793 🔗

Thanks Mark. I don’t know if I can though. I feel like Jack Nicholson in ‘One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest’ like I’m howling in the wind. Fellow business-owners (bar one, a hairdresser) are all going along with this. A customer said to me yesterday that it was quite right that businesses like mine were expendable to keep everyone “safe” (this, while sitting in my shop drinking my coffee …). And I realise the notice says ‘don’t do this…’ but it’s almost like a call to arms to the worst kind of busy-body/snitch/Warden Hodge types out there.

12702 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 10, #587 of 793 🔗

Don’t feel you have to fight everything. If you have to bend to accommodate the panic, do it. Do what you have to, to get through it. I’m counting on you being there when this is all over, so I can bring my family down for an afternoon tea (only a couple of hours drive). 🙂

12815 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to kh1485, 5, #588 of 793 🔗

Interesting that you cite Cuckoo’s Nest since it is an allegory about people voluntarily living in a nuthouse (all you lockdown zealots out there) but kh, McMurphy did have fun before he got lobotomized. Take all your compliant social-distancing customers on a fishing trip. (Extend that metaphor how you will.)

12979 ▶▶▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #589 of 793 🔗

Someone was talking about this “temporary” change in the Mental health Act at Glasgow Green today so I thought I would highlight it in case people arent aware.

What are the changes to the number of doctors required to detain you under the Mental Health Act for assessment and treatment?

Usually 3 people have to agree that you need to be detained. These are normally an approved mental health professional (AMHP) and 2 doctors. Under the new legislation the number of doctors is reduced to 1.

The AMHP has to record the reason why the decision to detain you was made on the recommendation of only 1 doctor. And they should only take this decision if they believe that staff shortages caused by coronavirus mean it would take too long for a second doctor to assess you.

12994 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #590 of 793 🔗

Hi Nigel, been a long time since I saw the film (think I snuck in under-age when it was first released!). Thanks also for your encouragement yesterday, that woman really upset me with her comments, so thank you ….

13145 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, #591 of 793 🔗

Have we any legal guys here?
I was wondering if businesses could get away with disclaimers – you know like the ones in carparks about visitors using the facilities at their own risk. Especially as the guidelines aren’t actually legal – are they?

12856 ▶▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to kh1485, 3, #592 of 793 🔗

You should have chucked him out

12747 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 12, #593 of 793 🔗

Kh,I look forward to your posts every day,your fighting spirit and determination has lifted my spirits.We had a small business and I know exactly how you feel,there was enough bullshit to deal with every week even before all of this virus madness.The BID are arseholes,they have got all their christmases at once.I am sure everyone who posts on here is in full support of you,I know it seems a hollow thing to say but I’m sure it is true.People like you are what remains of the backbone and Bulldog spirit of this country and we need that more than ever now.Maybe when this crap is over we can arrange some coach trips to bring you some customers from around the UK !.best wishes to you and those around you.
By the way,you must have a lot of self restraint,if a customer of mine had made that vile ‘expendable’,their feet wouldn’t have touched the ground before they went out of the door !.

12750 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Paul, 1, #594 of 793 🔗

Should say ‘vile expendable comment ‘ !

12990 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 5, #595 of 793 🔗

Thanks everyone for the kind words, they really do make a difference. I can tell you that I defended my position rigorously. And even laced it with heaps of sarcasm (went over her head of course!). I get the point Mark about going along with things. Trouble is, I am the kind of person who says what I mean and means what I say. If I think arrows, dots and queue management are a load of old bollocks I will say so. I’m no good at putting on a show of compliance – never have been. As I said before, you can take the girl out of Yorkshire etc. And like you say Paul, running your own business is bloody hard enough at the best of times without additional crap like the BID tossers poking their noses in. Wasn’t sure about using the ‘Cuckoo’s Nest’ anaolgy because, like you say Nigel, it didn’t end that well …

12999 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 3, #596 of 793 🔗

P.S. I just want to say that when this horror is over with, you are all bloody well welcome to come to my shop. And whatever you want will be on the house! Perhaps we can organise a lockdown sceptics party. With Det. Insp. Const. Peter Piss-Pott of Twat Valley Police as guest of honour!

12753 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to kh1485, 5, #597 of 793 🔗

Can’t wait to see the “new normal” TripAdvisor reports. People thought they had power before, just wait till they start commenting on tables being too close together.

12997 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #598 of 793 🔗

I hadn’t even thought about that! Groan …

12976 ▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to kh1485, 2, #599 of 793 🔗

I don’t think it is actual law so I would check that out.

13142 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, #600 of 793 🔗

kh, I’ve been grieving all day!

I realised that when my friend comes over to visit me (at last!) we won’t be able to go to our favourite tiny little independent cafe in a nearby village. There’s no way on Earth they’ll be able to do the ridiculous 2m rule. It’s so tight in there normally that you dread a fatty coming to sit at an adjacent table. It’s (was?) a wonderful place with excellent home-cooked food and great coffee at ridiculously reasonable prices. I’m sure it will be gone for good now.

Then I thought about the village itself. There’s a co-op but otherwise it’s (was!) mostly a thriving mixture of independent shops and cafes. I can’t see most of them surviving. This will completely kill off what was a busy village, seven miles from the town centre and a breath of fresh air in an age where all high streets are dominated by the same old chains.

Welcome to the new abnormal.

12692 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 3, #601 of 793 🔗

There’s something I don’t understand about this Dominic Cummings issue. Reading the SKY news webpage, it talks about a local resident having seen Cummings and his son on the doorstep of an address in Durham implying that it was in your average street or road. Later on it says Cummings visited the “family farm”

Interesting that this is just coming out now weeks after the event.
Not supporting Cummings in any way, particularly if he is still in favour of lockdown, but the report did strike me as being a bit dubious. Is he being thrown under a bus too?

12713 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Margaret, 9, #602 of 793 🔗

Yes, they’re doing a Ferguson on him. They sat on this story about him for weeks – 30th March – and now it’s being released. Is this the PtB clearing out the lockdown advocates, discrediting them?

12716 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark H, #603 of 793 🔗

Who are the PtB?

12720 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to guy153, 1, #604 of 793 🔗

I guess ‘Powers that Be’?

12855 ▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to Mark H, #605 of 793 🔗

Sunak is quite, er, confident isn’t he?

12984 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Mark H, 1, #606 of 793 🔗

Could be worse – they could have done a David Kelly – just saying.

12715 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Margaret, 4, #607 of 793 🔗

It seems likely, especially given the timing as you say. One of the last tweets on his Mason Mills account (now apparently deleted or locked down or something) was him sneering at the 1922 committee, so this is probably the next stage of the escalation.

If I had to guess where he stands on the issue he is probably in favour of TTT since that appeals to wannabe nerds like him with a superficial understanding of technology. If he wants to drag things out until that is declared “ready” we might as well wait for a vaccine.

Let’s hope they do get rid of him. I wonder what will happen to the balance of power if they do? Maybe the cabinet (most of them hand-picked by Cummings for their stupidity) will step up and take over.

12743 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to guy153, 12, #608 of 793 🔗

A few hours before the Cummings story broke, there was a little-covered event – secondment of Prince William’s private secretary, Simon Case, to a new role in Cabinet Office to oversee the government’s handling of coronavirus crisis. It was in the Mail online (buried low down on the site), I thought it a bid strange and highlighted it on yesterday’s discussion. Seems timing was ‘right’ to press the button on Cummings hypocrisy. Is Boris now going to be acting under orders, with an imminent announcement about ending this ridiculous lockdown. Or am I being unduly optimistic?

12751 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #609 of 793 🔗

It’s like Goodfellas where the members involved in a robbery at JFK airport are picked off one by one because dead men can’t talk.

12757 ▶▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #610 of 793 🔗

‘Ever since I can remember, I wanted to be a gangster’. What a great opening line to a film.

13211 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to guy153, #611 of 793 🔗

TTT?

12748 ▶▶ karate56, replying to Margaret, 12, #612 of 793 🔗

If the government are clearing the decks they’re doing it in a very odd way. They’re still following a plan that is very much worse case scenario, and last night’s confirmed destruction of aviation and tourism doesn’t suggest at all they’re seeing any light. My hope in this ending soon has become more despairing.
If they are clearing decks though, they need to get rid of Hancock very quickly. Chief dick head of them all just needs to “disappear”, never mind be exposed/set up like Cummings or Ferguson. I’d more than happily make him disappear, it would bring me infinite pleasure.

12756 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to karate56, 3, #613 of 793 🔗

“If the government are clearing the decks they’re doing it in a very odd way. ”

I think so too. Perhaps the idea that these stories are centrally planned is to give the government too much credit. These two names are among half a dozen lockdown zealots, equally worthy of a sacking.

12818 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, #614 of 793 🔗

Farmhouses can have doorsteps, I guess.

12821 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to JohnB, #615 of 793 🔗

I wasn’t making a point about doorsteps! More that farms tend to be in more isolated places and not in city centres as the piece implied. Guardian spies are everywhere!

13210 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, #616 of 793 🔗

My suspicion re the timing is that the MSM are going to go all out against both Boris and Cummings now, due to the imminent deadline for requesting an extension to the transition period..

12696 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #617 of 793 🔗

https://twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic/status/1264078762813128704
Toby mentioned Ethical Skeptic a twitter account I have followed for a long time. This twitter person had exactly the same figure of IFR in the US just by following the curve and his calculations and exactly the same as CDC recently published. Spot on. Earlier I stated that this twitter person is either a crank or a genius but I think worth following. He has a nice graph of the world pandemic,US pandemic and below the SARS epidemic which he thinks Covid-19 is following in a remarkable way. Will it stop in July Aug and die out like SARS?

12776 ▶▶ ianp, replying to swedenborg, 2, #618 of 793 🔗

Yeah… And we might still remain in lockdown… ‘just in case’.

12737 swedenborg, 13, #619 of 793 🔗

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1263833756747644928.html
Yesterday I posted a similar twitter but better reported here on the thread reader. Very interesting data
From Spain clearly showing the futility of lockdown, social distancing in influencing the trajectory of this pandemic.
I think the warning he puts below on the webpage is a frightening reminder over our Orwellian time
“This Thread may be Removed Anytime!
Twitter may remove this content at anytime, convert it as a PDF, save and print for later use!”

12754 Sarigan, 1, #620 of 793 🔗

Apologies if a little off topic but may be a welcome distraction for an hour or so. One of my all time top albums and I think some poignant and relevant lyrics and imagery in Pink Floyd’s The Wall film:
http://www.documentarymania.com/player.php?title=The%20Wall

As one review sums it up for me – a guttural howl of rage at the darkest aspects of English culture.

12758 daveyp, replying to daveyp, 16, #621 of 793 🔗

I had an interesting company meeting on Zoom yesterday.

Our CEO said that he’d been going in to the office, saying he found it refreshing from being at home. When he asked all the staff what they felt about coming back to the office to work, no one at all wants to go back and work from the office!

I’ve spoken to many others businesses, organisation, and the NHS during the lockdown as most of them are telling me the same thing. A lot of them are now looking to have staff permanently work when the lockdown finishes, and they are also looking to get rid of their offices too which will have a massive effect on the economy.

The other main concerns are down to the experience of working in the office, with staff not being able to face each other, staff being behind perspex screens, staff wearing mask, not being able to talk to each other such as casual chats whilst making a cuppa.

Also, a lot of businesses are scared because of the risk assessments they have now got to do, as inappropriate social distancing in the workplace could lead to claims that could shut a lot of small and medium size enterprises down.

12767 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to daveyp, 10, #622 of 793 🔗

Don’t worry. None of this will last.

12791 ▶▶▶ Max, replying to RDawg, 9, #623 of 793 🔗

Think you are probably right there, RDawg. There is a tendency when you are stuck in the middle of a traffic jam to think you will be trapped forever, but once it clears you soon forget it happened at all.
The only thing is, I suspect this is somewhat more akin to a motorway pile-up, and we are going to be left with dealing with repairs (and/or driving about in severely damaged vehicles) for a very long time afterwards.

13206 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RDawg, #624 of 793 🔗

I’d like to agree, but Bill Gates has other plans and he seems to have ‘bought’ everyone in positions of power…

12817 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to daveyp, 6, #625 of 793 🔗

Spot on! It’s double-speak again – ‘Go back to work, but don’t go back to work because we can’t create a safe environment’. A bit like ‘Go back to work, but don’t travel to get there’.
Companies are also realising how efficiently many jobs can be done with a high degree of home-working. This of course leads to a high level of redundancy (as they have also seen that they can operate with smaller numbers).
This kills off the office sector (along with retail – a separate story), so utterly screws the property market (and incidentally my pension).
What would probably have been manageable over a 10-year period is being compressed into 3 months, and the UK (both its people and its economic infrastructure) isn’t prepared for the shift.

12825 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #626 of 793 🔗

That’s why it will be interesting to see how the gradual rollback of the furlough scheme will affect the unemployment figures. Given how companies are now operating at a loss, the furlough and any proposed HSE guidelines will provide the excuse for companies to cut their losses and announce redundancies. Or for small businesses to simply close their doors forever.

Trying to be optimistic here as well, we still have time to turn this around to the point that all these guidelines will no longer be needed. Unfortunately I don’t think that will be enough to save people’s jobs from the redundancy axe and businesses from going under.

12858 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #627 of 793 🔗

If more people work from home, this will have a major economic impact. Public transport providers may have less custom as there are fewer people travelling to and from work. I assume that business in city centres receive a lot of their custom from workers coming in eg using shops on their way to and from work and using coffe shops during lunch. If more people work from home many of these businesses will lose out. Another casualty if more people work is the rental and property market.

12906 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to ianric, 4, #628 of 793 🔗

This is the thing. There simply aren’t enough ‘work from home’ style jobs available across ALL SECTORS to employ everybody. And this is before companies discover they can cut their workforce with remote working. So you’ve got a situation where the lucky few ‘work from home’, the less lucky not-so-few are in ‘key’ service jobs keeping supply chains going/large shops going/public services running etc., and everyone else……. Does what exactly? Sits at home unemployed.

Basically economies are ‘in person’ dependent. They thrive where people DO things, IN PERSON, in order to support other people doing things. You can’t have an economy made up of people just sat in their houses on computers. It won’t work. It means 70% of people will be unemployed or
underemployed.

13011 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 4, #629 of 793 🔗

The interesting thing is I’ve come across a lot of comments where people have explained their rationale for wanting to return to work – productivity, human contact and sense of closure after every day.

The first two are linked – my husband would complain about the lack of productivity and the lack of human contact because half the time, chats with one’s colleague over a coffee break or just standing by the door could give you a nudge if you’re stuck with something or ideas while working on something. There’s also the problem of the lack of IT support, it can sometimes be bad on site but far worse if you’re working remotely.

In other forums I’ve read many have also pointed out that say working 3 days on, 2 days off can also be a waste of time given the lack of productivity for 2 days will mean that you will waste the 3 days on site catching up on the work you should have done at home.

The last point, sense of closure is also important because when you go home at the end end of the day, you don’t really bring your work home (understandably there is a minority who do) hence the maintenance of that strict demarcation between work and rest.

13417 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Bart Simpson, #630 of 793 🔗

We’re finding with our company and from talking to other companies that their productivity since working from home is higher than ever. Staff are completing work quicker, and they’re much happier.

I work for an IT company and we are busier than ever rolling out solutions for staff to work from home.

I’m a bit pee’d off with the Gov putting all these people on furlough who have been having a holiday for the last 10 weeks, wheres my feet haven’t touched the ground, yet I am paying my taxes to support them now and will be paying even more tax in the future paying of this huge debt we are acruing.

12895 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to daveyp, 9, #631 of 793 🔗

I think the desire to get back into the office probably depends on the line of work and whether the worker bees are in general happy, and office demographics. At my place, the younger workers, singletons and young child brigade are most eager to get back. The over 45’s, with older, more self-sufficient kids, larger houses with a dedicated study, potentially saving a lot on commuting expenses, much less so. These guys also tend to be more senior and established in their roles, and much more comfortable with doing their own thing. Fortunately, my institute director is concerned about the impact long-term home-working on team cohesion and morale and acknowledged it is not ideal. However, I suspect some employers rather like the idea of lots of isolated and dispersed little workers, who they could potentially pay less for remote working….

There is also the element here though of what form of return to work we will be allowed. If our offices and labs are to become some dystopian hell of insane rules and snitches there will be a lot less enthusiasm to come back…

12775 anti_corruption_tsar, replying to anti_corruption_tsar, 13, #632 of 793 🔗

Some great comments in this thread about the financial insanity of the situation. Nearly everyone in the public is clueless about where this is all heading. For now there rests just about enough confidence in the government and the Bank of England to prop the situation up through QE, same with the European Central Bank and Italian debt which is on the front line of the crisis. However more and more people are losing confidence in government as time goes on. There is a financial crisis cycle due in 2021/2 where investors lose all confidence in government debt and pretty much all corporate debt too apart from absolute prime AAA debt.

Just one massive problem – that is the capital formation of banks and insurance companies, so that pension which you thought was safely yours, or your bank deposits will be imperilled. Not to mention the complete meltdown in the property market when virtually nobody will have access to any mortgage financing – lets see what property is worth when buyers only have access to their rapidly diminishing personal wealth. Have a look at what happened to the Cypriot banking system in 2012/3, and that was just a mini dress rehearsal for what is coming up. Due to the interlinked nature of all assets, there will be safe havens during the crisis over the next 2 years, mainly US stocks as capital that can will flee government and impaired corporate debt where it can.

13166 ▶▶ ianp, replying to anti_corruption_tsar, #633 of 793 🔗

Yep… Buy stocks, technology ones in particular. I also have a sneaky feeling that crypto will start booming again..

12789 TJN, replying to TJN, 8, #634 of 793 🔗

YouTube’s Red Pen, again

I fail to understand why YouTube should be taking down harmless video interviews in which respected scientists and academics with proven track records express views which are at variance with those of the WHO. After all, the WHO’s track record in all this has been woeful.

What can be YouTube’s motives? In an earlier post Angela suggested a corporate link to interests in vaccine development. Maybe, for all I know.

Has anyone else got any ideas?

Is there a China link going on? In that prolonging lockdowns in Western societies actually benefits China’s relative economic position? I just don’t know.

I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but there is something very odd going on here.

12798 ▶▶ Angela, replying to TJN, 13, #635 of 793 🔗

It shows a level of panic that people may actually discover the truth about what’s actually going on. There seems to be a clear link between making the lockdown as unbearable as possible = creating a market for people desperate to get back to ‘normal’. Fear makes people do things they would not normally do (ie why would you inject an insufficiently tested substance into your body that has coronavirus in it?).

Vaccine hesitancy is rising due to the side effects. Gates controls WHO. Gates is in league with Larry Page (who owns Utube) to produce vaccines and implanted electronic devices to make sure we are all ‘up to date’ with annual and even perhaps bi-annual vaccinations to maintain any semblance of a normal life. Can you even imagine the financial bonanza this would generate?

12901 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Angela, 2, #636 of 793 🔗

But surely they know it can’t be covered up much longer. Lockdown scepticism is becoming mainstream now.

And I’m very scared of needles, so no one’s injecting anything into me.

13205 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Angela, #637 of 793 🔗

Financial bonanza for Gates and death for us.. We know he wants to depopulate the world and has estimated 700,000 might die from the vaccine – which he seems totally unbothered about..

12813 ▶▶ Anon, replying to TJN, -2, #638 of 793 🔗

I expect social media companies are removing media so as to avoid being accused of facilitating fake news and being regulated further. From their perspective this is presumably the right move even if it means some legitimate, non-conspiracy nutter content will be removed.

To be fair to them, they’ve already taken a battering for hosting 5G nutter conspiracies, even when I presume moderating that sort of content at scale is extremely difficult.

12862 ▶▶▶ Angela, replying to Anon, 5, #639 of 793 🔗

Interesting that Michael Mansfield QC is mounting a lawsuit against 5G on behalf of the ‘nutters’, many of whom are electrosensitives. He must have something to work on or he wouldn’t touch it.

12966 ▶▶▶▶ Anon, replying to Angela, -1, #640 of 793 🔗

That what I consider a reasonable explanation for why social media companies are removing media (to protect themselves) is downvoted while your 5G nonsense/new world order/anti vaccine comments are being upvoted does give me cause to question the mindset of the lockdown sceptic movement

12973 ▶▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Angela, 4, #641 of 793 🔗

https://www.5gappeal.eu/about/
European scientists have been warning for years against implementing 5G without having safely established that it is indeed not harmful to humans. There are of course no long term studies because implementation of 5G is estimated to be a $7trillion business adventure where critical science has no space. The very same applies to vaccines and the coming Covid-19 vaccines they want to roll out ultrafast…$$$… follow the evidence wherever it leads and it will always lead to the big global players, money, and control.
The conspiracy nuttiness aspect comes from ideas such as Coronavirus is caused by 5G, which conveniently has people switch off and say it’s all BS rather than engage with the real scientific concerns about 5G in terms of our immune system being compromised at the frequency range it will operate on without any neutral scientific long term studies being conducted.
Hope that helps.

13293 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Anon, #642 of 793 🔗

Yes, maybe there’s something in that. They’ve blotted their copybook so much in the past perhaps they are eager to make amends now, with the powers-that-be. I do wonder if that can be the whole explanation though.

12854 ▶▶ Beefy, replying to TJN, #643 of 793 🔗

I think they fear violence in the US, militia style. They may well be right to.

12972 ▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to TJN, 2, #644 of 793 🔗

There is a branch of the army the 77th brigade monitoring the internet for so called mis- information.
Watch UK Column for some very informative discussions

12790 mhcp, 2, #645 of 793 🔗

This guy is a real estate guru, so take from that what you will. His point is relevant though with regards to the US recovery which can be applied to other places such as the UK.

Even using the best estimates of a functioning economy, the current government direction will be key to whether we go into higher inflation or a business-first direction. If pre-lockdown metrics are used, he’s estimating 6 years back to pre-lockdown employment levels.

So basically the predicted second recession (the consequences of QE from the last) has hit. Just not from the usual methods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUeVfziOdBQ

12792 swedenborg, 2, #646 of 793 🔗

Another interesting tweet just from Michael Levitt confirming his China findings
https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013/status/1264122360753512449
In the reply below also show the same thing for Italy as in Spain same trajectory of pandemic not influenced by anything, social distancing lockdown

12795 FistfulOfDollars, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 33, #647 of 793 🔗

First time poster. I’ve been reading and appreciating this blog for weeks. Firstly, would just like to thank you, and everyone that contributes.

I really just needed to vent about something that happened last night. I’ve always been calm and rational with my intelligent friends, suggesting that they check out some “encouraging” statistics and analysis from very reputable sources, such as CEBM, and various Professors of epidemiology from around the world. Not to prove a point, but really to make them feel a little less petrified.

But they WILL NOT accept that there’s any other narrative than the one being peddled by the BBC and MSM. They go silent and unresponsive, like they’re malfunctioning. I say, “Just have a quick read and see what you think, make up your own mind.” Not one of them – and I talk to a lot of people about it – have even followed a link or read an abstract. They’d much rather gobble up hysterical headlines and think they’re totally clued up on the whole thing. So clued up, in fact, that they start taking liberties with the information.

“Well, to be honest, I don’t think we’ll ever be out of lockdown,” he says to me. “We’ll only see a massive spike in deaths again. Apparently the second wave in South Korea is MUCH MUCH WORSE. Like, MUCH WORSE than the first.”

I said, “What second wave in South Korea?” He said, “Yeah, there’s been a massive second wave in South Korea since they lifted the lockdown.”

I didn’t even bother arguing back.

WHERE THE HELL ARE PEOPLE GETTING THEIR INFORMATION? WHAT’S GOING ON?

Just needed to get that off my chest, because I don’t know anyone I can talk to this about.

12848 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 9, #648 of 793 🔗

It sounds like most of the people you speak to are gullible cretins, force feeding themselves government propaganda. You’re not alone – keep on challenging these imbeciles.

12851 ▶▶ Beefy, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 9, #649 of 793 🔗

They are massively emotionally invested. It is depressing but remember that when people are working on emotions, the shift can be sudden and extreme. We will keep chipping away and it will get through in a sudden rush.

12887 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Beefy, 8, #650 of 793 🔗

The sudden rush where they finally lose their job and discover what impending poverty feels like. That’ll get them over their corona fear very quickly.

12907 ▶▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to Farinances, 1, #651 of 793 🔗

Unfortunately it will be for many.

13003 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Farinances, 1, #652 of 793 🔗

Yes, it won’t be long before that happens now, sadly. Then they will be thrashing about looking for someone to blame.

13013 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 3, #653 of 793 🔗

That should wake them up. As I told my husband, if the government wants to reverse the fear of the virus, they should go after those who are paying rent or mortgage, in sectors that are in danger of going under (retail, arts, heritage, hospitality) – ramp up the message and repeat it. Then they will clamour for the end of the lockdown and social distancing faster than you can say Covid 19.

12917 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 3, #654 of 793 🔗

‘They go silent and unresponsive, like they’re malfunctioning.’

Too good. Priceless.

12930 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #655 of 793 🔗

This. Then you get a flustered outburst like the SECOND WAVE! one above. It’s normally that or something to do with Sweden, ‘The Science!’, or killing a grandma by standing upwind from her.

12970 ▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 3, #656 of 793 🔗

You have found an oasis of sanity here.

Welcome.

My son is the same and I don’t know if we will ever recover our relationship.

13169 ▶▶ ianp, replying to FistfulOfDollars, #657 of 793 🔗

Join the club my friend

The zealots have got it coming to them, soon…

13203 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to FistfulOfDollars, #658 of 793 🔗

I have acquaintances that think Bill Gates is great… and accuse me of conspiracy theory when I try to show them otherwise..

12797 swedenborg, 5, #659 of 793 🔗

https://twitter.com/aginnt/status/1264038255298637827

Even Dr Brix CDC is now on the right track. The video link in tweet
Interesting takeaways: – Believes asymptomatics are the main source of transmission. – Asymptomatics are age-dependent. – The original estimate was 10 -15%, now 35%. Believes it could be higher. – Location-dependent outbreaks, not community spread driving cases and fatalities.

12801 Sim18, 4, #660 of 793 🔗

Toby, you have in the past mentioned the role of T cells in providing a degree of immunity to Sars-Cov-2 . Here’s some research that, while it does not prove cross reactivity, presents an interesting possibility.

https://www.lji.org/news-events/news/post/first-detailed-analysis-of-immune-response-to-sars-cov-2-bodes-well-for-covid-19-vaccine-development/

The research paper:
https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)30610-3.pdf

“The teams also looked at the T cell response in blood samples that had been collected between 2015 and 2018, before SARS-CoV-2 started circulating. Many of these individuals had significant T cell reactivity against SARS-CoV-2, although they had never been exposed to SARS-CoV-2. But everybody has almost certainly seen at least three of the four common cold coronaviruses, which could explain the observed crossreactivity.

It is still unclear, though, whether the observed crossreactivity provides at least some level of preexisting immunity to SARS-CoV-2 and therefore could explain why some people or geographical locations are hit harder by COVID-19.

“Given the severity of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, any degree of cross-reactive coronavirus immunity could have a very substantial impact on the overall course of the pandemic and is a key detail to consider for epidemiologists as they try to scope out how severely COVID-19 will affect communities in the coming months,” says Crotty. “

12804 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 25, #661 of 793 🔗

More bad behaviour at a senior level within those handling Britain’s response to the minor coronavirus common cold epidemic. The whole mismanagement and ‘Do as I say, not as I do’ culture, together with the massive collateral damage to the lives of the most vulnerable and to the entire nation would normally be expected to bring the government down….

Things seem to have been not much better in Germany and I put extracts here of the leaked German report that Toby links above because it gives a very interesting insight into the workings of a modern ‘democratic’ bureaucracy not so very different from our own, but also to give a bit of a shorter version for those too busy to read the whole thing. Any national enquiry in Britain may very well turn out to be startlingly similar in content:

‘There is a disclaimer to the effect that the paper is not a product for purposes of public relations, but an internal report whose sole purpose is to improve the crisis management and plan the measures to be taken. In view of the urgency of the matter (“peril in delay”) the report is frank and direct – no attempt has been made to phrase things delicately.’

‘Despite the figures for Corona deaths being exaggerated, it can be seen how low the danger is compared with everyday risks to health.’

‘The author comments on the role of the Chancellor. He concedes that, despite her lack of transparency, she has been well received by the media and the broad population. There are three reasons to look at this more closely. Firstly, popularity is no guarantee and not even a criterion for right decisions. Consideration of popularity introduces a rogue element, which creates susceptibility to bad decisions. Secondly, being able to obtain excessive approval and acceptance even for nonsense represents a great peril for our polity. Thirdly, the almost entirely positive reaction of the media in particular to every activity of the Chancellor, whatever she had just announced and how and with which timing she presented her position on specific questions as being without an alternative, or indeed changed, confirms negative prejudices about the press. The greater part of the (free) press appears more or less useless as a corrective to misguided developments, e.g. to a suboptimal crisis management.’

‘The choice of scientists involved seems to have been one-sided. The strong fixation on the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) and its dismissive attitude to contrary scientific opinion as well as the PR work of the Federal Government led to not all scientific opinions receiving a sufficient hearing. Measures were taken which became themselves a source of danger.’

‘….the chancellor and prime ministers of the Länder made their decisions on the basis of a risk evaluation which did not measure scale. …. The RKI does not mention collateral damage even though this involved higher numbers of deaths than from Covid-19.’

‘The author returns to the exercise of 2012. He contrasts the analysis and recommendations made then with the realities of decision-making in 2020. Measures are not taken by the authorities, guidance and coordination is not undertaken by the crisis teams, but the politicians (“politics”) make the decisions and the crisis teams find justifications. The Federal Chancellor and the Prime Ministers of the Länder lead the way although they have (and can have) no competence or experience in operational decision-making in complex crises.’

‘In the Corona crisis the crisis management has conducted itself as if it were still playing out an exercise: it has not queried the substance (content) of highly specific medical input. It cut itself off from proposals, stimuli and demands from outside.

Since now all measures and crisis communication to the public rest on one-sided or very imperfect (“suboptimal”) factual input, all measures and decisions taken by the crisis management are likely themselves to be suboptimal. This also means that in this, the biggest crisis the Federal Republic of Germany has ever faced, the state has possibly been the biggest producer of fake news (“fake news” in the German), against which it has claimed to campaign. This means that it has contributed to an important support potential for overcoming the crisis being blocked.’

‘The only reasoning provided for the measures and restrictions on civil rights was that the rapid spread was of concern. There was no word on how the Federal government or the state governments or other authorities (crisis teams, RKI…) assessed the danger. Nothing is said about the nature of the danger of the Corona virus. The author quotes: “The rapid spread of the Corona virus (SARS-CoV-2) in recent days in Germany is alarming. We must do everything to prevent an uncontrolled rise in cases and keep our health system functioning. For this, a reduction in contacts is decisive.” (22 March 2020)

Any number of questions remain unanswered, such as what is meant by “number of cases” and what the number of cases says about the peril. The description of speed of spread as “rapid” is questionable too. At the time there was no evidence of a dangerous spread. Such spread as there was provided no criterion for dangerousness. According to the RKI on 22 March there were only 18,610 “cases” (0.2 per thousand of the population) and 55 fatalities (0.0006 per thousand of the population).’

‘“Including all deaths of people who were infected among the Corona deaths led (and continues to lead) to a distortion of the perception of the mortality and prevents, among other things, the consequences of the collateral damage being recognised as such.” For example: someone with an infection dies of coronary disease because their planned heart operation cannot take place (i.e. the hospital has postponed the operation due to Corona pressure). This person is not classified as dying from the (collateral) effects of the measures, but as dying from Covid-19.

That is, there is falsification and manipulation of the figures. The persistent problems were acknowledged by the Robert-Koch Institute as early as the beginning of March 2020. A comparison of deaths from the virus and deaths from the counter-measures is prevented.’

‘It is not possible simply to terminate the panic at a certain point in time and re-open normality. Normal life cannot be re-instated as simply as measures can be decreed. The fears, and especially the irrational fears and the consequent changes in behaviour, will not disappear automatically when the measures are relaxed.’

‘The most difficult task will be to restore lost trust. Trust in a state that is reliably protective and therefore can on occasion legitimately enforce interventions and restrictions. This state has failed grotesquely. In order to restore trust, it must admit its errors and work these through. Otherwise, the state and its political system may not be forgiven its systemic errors.’

http://www.klasseverantwortung.de/english/Corona.html

I have quoted selectively but even so it is too long. My apologies.

12814 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #662 of 793 🔗

Nah, it’s excellent stuff Tim. Thank you.

12827 ▶▶ AGM, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #663 of 793 🔗

I think from the situation where we currently are the last 2 paragraphs you quote are particularly relevant.

12885 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #664 of 793 🔗

This also means that in this, the biggest crisis the Federal Republic of Germany has ever faced, the state has possibly been the biggest producer of fake news (“fake news” in the German), against which it has claimed to campaign.

Wow, that’s bold.– I thought it would be weak sauce of the ‘well, maybe we might have done the wrong thing’ variety. I need to read the whole thing.

12963 ▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #665 of 793 🔗

May I add that Jens Spahn the Secretary of Health in Germany is a trained investment banker and a career politician through and through, who has ZERO medical understanding and has engaged in major Pharma lobbying his entire career. His incompetence in all health related aspects of life is staggering.

12823 Old fred, replying to Old fred, 6, #666 of 793 🔗

BBC just now …….’Coronavirus: Dominic Cummings’ lockdown trip ‘was essential’, says No 10 ‘.

Well, they would wouldn’t they!

12883 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Old fred, 2, #667 of 793 🔗

“I thought I was immune!”

12826 Louise, replying to Louise, 23, #668 of 793 🔗

It’s happening. Keir is turning. He’s speaking clearly about a return to school and building confidence in those that are scared. He’s moving his criticisms away from talk of an earlier lockdown and more towards PPE requirements. He’s sounding smarter and more reasonable at every turn while Boris becomes less credible. Boris swore to repay those people who lent their votes to the conservatives and before they all move away in droves, the only thing he can do to keep that promise is a big bold move. End lockdown immediately.

12833 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to Louise, 3, #669 of 793 🔗

Seems he prefers to keep on digging!

12882 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Louise, 5, #670 of 793 🔗

Ssssnakey Ssssnake Starmer doing what he does best.

Well, if it gets us out of lockdown I’m all for it. Still not gonna vote for him though.

Wouldn’t that be funny? The Guardianistas aligning with hated Boris to preserve lockdown whilst their beloved Labour Party does a 180?

They would switch on a dime though wouldn’t they. They always do. It’s like in America where it is more blatant and extreme – whatever Trump recommends, they hate. So Trump could recommend eating to keep oneself alive, and people would start starving themselves.

Here it’s more like nitpicky puritanism- Boris could cure cancer, and the ‘left’ would still find some sort of problem with the way he did it.

This is why this is all as funny to me as it is infuriating – and also extremely revealing. One section of the establishment has come together with the other (the one currently in power), whilst still pretending to hate it. It’s all “we love the lockdown” whilst bashing Boris’s….. lockdown. They can’t have it both ways.

13167 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Louise, #671 of 793 🔗

I hope you’re right about Starmer!

12830 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 16, #672 of 793 🔗

I’m disappointed that Cummings’ behaviour has been condoned by No 10. His ‘justification’ could perhaps make sense if he and his wife really were too unwell to care for their child but that’s not the point. The point is that the entire public has been told for two months that going anywhere near family who don’t live with you is tantamount to murder and totally wrong, especially elderly/vulnerable family members, and yet here he is breaking that tenet.

His conduct is being deemed ‘essential’ as well – but who’s to define what’s essential other than the individual himself? I would say that any trip to see family is classed as essential because it’s such an important part of a normal human life with physical contact. Again it’s something that is impossible to define because what might be deemed inessential to one person would be essential to another, which is why the lockdown is a total, unenforceable failure.

I wonder if this is just some 5D chess move from Cummings anyway to try and chip away at public support for the lockdown, seeing as it’s now impossible to row back on the hysterical fear the government have whipped up.

12836 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Poppy, 16, #673 of 793 🔗

Fundamentally, the problem is that the police have been enforcing an arbitrary interpretation of the law and the guidelines against us plebs, which has often involved them massively overstepping their authority.

People will rightly suspect that if they had done a mercy dash to the other end of the country. they would have been been cut no slack at all by over-zealous plods, so it’s seen as another case of one rule for them and one rule for us.

If this ignites the latent anger that is growing among the public (at least on here anyway) then it could turn out to be a good thing.

12843 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to AidanR, 16, #674 of 793 🔗

Indeed, which is why I believe it’s a deliberate move from the gov because they think that leaking stories of high-status lockdown breakers is the least politically risky way to get us out of this mess, because then the public will feel empowered to ignore the lockdown and then the blame is shifted from the gov onto them. It’s revealing that this happened in late March time but the story is only being revealed now. No 10 has been sat on this information for months.

12844 ▶▶▶▶ Louise, replying to Poppy, 1, #675 of 793 🔗

Very astute observation.

12853 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Poppy, 8, #676 of 793 🔗

I agree with what you say, and being naturally suspicious of timing (why did it happen now and not two weeks ago, etc?) you will be aware of the senior appointment to the Cabinet Office yesterday – Prince William’s private secretary, seconded to run the coronavirus response. Something is going on behind the scenes. With Ferguson out of the way, Cummings, as the person reporting to Boris from SAGE, also had to go now. He was one of the key architects of lockdown, and was charged with interpreting ‘the science’ – we should show him no mercy.

13188 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #677 of 793 🔗

I think they are going for Boris and Cummings now because of the fast approaching deadline for seeking an extension to the Transition period..

12874 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Poppy, 2, #678 of 793 🔗

The MSM have sat on this for months.

12915 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Poppy, 1, #679 of 793 🔗

I think you credit them with more guile and competence than they have shown any evidence of possessing.

12922 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, 1, #680 of 793 🔗

Yep, that’s my view as well. If they were that competent we wouldn’t be where we are.

12949 ▶▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Poppy, 1, #681 of 793 🔗

Well said….That works both ways doesn’t it…. BoJo in ICU has the country in hysterics and not even opening the front door, Cummings sneaking about makes them feel tough and ready to face the street….

13075 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Poppy, #682 of 793 🔗

I was thinking just that when I heard about it.

13193 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AidanR, 1, #683 of 793 🔗

I agree, but it surprises (and worries) me that people are not also making the connection that the virus cannot be as dangerous as they are telling us, if the elites are not worried about breaking the lockdown.. They seem to be more wound up about people in power breaking ‘the rules’, instead of stopping to think what that rule-breaking actually says about the justification (or not) for there being these rules at all..

12863 ▶▶ A13, replying to Poppy, 8, #684 of 793 🔗

Maybe it’s not some smart chess move, but they realised that they can’t keep sacking people every time story like this gets out. There will be more. I bet that majority of those elitist arrogant halfwits thought that can get away with it as rules don’t apply to them.
Like that Chicago mayor who was defending getting a professional haircut by saying that she needed one more than other people because she is a public figure.

12964 ▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to A13, 3, #685 of 793 🔗

They are just an elitist cabal sneering at us plebs.

12866 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Poppy, 15, #686 of 793 🔗

“All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others.”

12913 ▶▶ Louise, replying to Poppy, #687 of 793 🔗

You are so right. This kind of stuff is ALL over Twitter. https://mobile.twitter.com/potters30/status/1264124498011357185

12958 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Poppy, 3, #688 of 793 🔗

There seem to be widely different reports about what DC did, but as I understand it, he had suspected covid-infection. The guidance on that was very specific: once you have it you MUST stay home and self-isolate. Maybe I have got the wring understanding, but, if not, surely it is an open and shut case and he should go.

12959 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to IanE, #689 of 793 🔗

Drat, for ‘wring’ read ‘wrong’!

12980 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to IanE, 3, #690 of 793 🔗

Particularly as he drove to visit elderly – therefore vulnerable – parents.

12834 Oaks79, replying to Oaks79, 23, #691 of 793 🔗

If the media put the same effort into questioning the science etc like they are with this Cummings story, lockdown would be over

12840 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Oaks79, 6, #692 of 793 🔗

Have you listened to the ‘key’ journos though – you would need to send them back to pre-school for a full reprogramming!

12845 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 29, #693 of 793 🔗

If I get one more email with “stay safe” in the signature line I am in danger of throwing my IPad out the fucking window. Stay safe from what, you cretins?

12846 ▶▶ Louise, replying to Hammer Onats, 14, #694 of 793 🔗

Reply with ‘Stay sane’

12947 ▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Louise, 2, #695 of 793 🔗

Stay sane stay sceptical….!

12850 ▶▶ Angela, replying to Hammer Onats, 14, #696 of 793 🔗

I’m the same. I take great pleasure in smiling at people in the street and generally acting as if it’s business as usual.

12865 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Angela, 5, #697 of 793 🔗

Snap!

12871 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Angela, 1, #698 of 793 🔗

Yup, same crap politicians destroying lives as they plod along!

12957 ▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Angela, 2, #699 of 793 🔗

Me too and deliberately veering towards them.

12870 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #700 of 793 🔗

From flying iPads?

12877 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Hammer Onats, 7, #701 of 793 🔗

I got the same homily from a mask wearing mini-cab driver when paying my fare (after being cordoned off in the back seat by a crappy perspex screen.) This is after he nearly broadsided a car coming onto a roundabout when other car had right of way.

12960 ▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 6, #702 of 793 🔗

I really feel this is an issue that has to be addresed. Face masks reduce the amount of oxygen to the brain and also lead to a build up of carbon monoxide.

Surely they should be banned when driving.

12977 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, #703 of 793 🔗

if that is the case – which I didn’t know – then yes.

12872 A13, replying to A13, 20, #704 of 793 🔗

I never thought that this day will come – I am watching Fox News and agreeing with Tucker.
“For millions of healthy people, coronavirus lockdowns are a life-changing disaster”
https://video.foxnews.com/v/6158453868001#sp=show-clips

12879 ▶▶ Mimi, replying to A13, 20, #705 of 793 🔗

Same. For decades, I’ve thought Fox News was the devil. Now I thank heaven for Tucker Carlson and Brit Hume, and for the National Review, and the Wall Street Journal. The NYT, WaPo, CNN, etc. have been outrageously irresponsible in their reporting. I mean, how hard is it to acknowledged that taking all things from all people will hurt them?

I’ve realized that, though I’ve voted Democrat for 20 years now, I don’t actually have any political allegiance. And at the moment, Democratic leaders are taking actions that are actively destructive to liberty and to people’s lives and futures. Republicans are the ones considering costs and looking for ways to limit them, and who are pointing out that the COVID is maybe not the deadliest plague of the century. I can vote Republican if that is now the party of sense and freedom.

12904 ▶▶▶ Marion, replying to Mimi, 2, #706 of 793 🔗

Taki Mag and City Journal are also very good, intelligent, and in the case of Taki, often very funny. Both put our U.K. newspapers and magazines to shame – our MSM is childish by comparison. All U.K. tv is now, of course, Blue Peter lite.

12919 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Marion, #707 of 793 🔗

Taki Mag is fantastic…. Theodore Dalrymple, Jim Goad and Taki himself? Just put that Spectator in the bin.

Also good is Kurt Schlicter at townhall.com

And Fred Reed at unz.com

12955 ▶▶▶ A13, replying to Mimi, 1, #708 of 793 🔗

I just watched Ben Shapiro talking about lockdown restrictions in California. If what’s happening in the UK is insane, then listen to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDuWbdTd5Ec

12886 ▶▶ Mark, replying to A13, 8, #709 of 793 🔗

Never understood what the big deal was about Fox. Imo, those who moaned about it being politically and culturally biased were just ignorant of how dramatically biased and dishonest the BBC and all our mainstream press are. Some people are only just now waking up to that as they see the BBC actively lying to us over the coronapanic.

As for Tucker Carlson he was great I remember back at the time of the Republican presidential race. If my memory is correct he was one of a relatively small number of Republican leaning commentators who was properly sceptical about the US’s aggressively militarist foreign policy, and reasonably open to the libertarian arguments on the right. I don’t always agree with him, but he’s alert and witty.

12897 ▶▶▶ A13, replying to Mark, 2, #710 of 793 🔗

It’s funny you say that. My brother in law is a republican and he’s always been saying that I don’t realise how lucky I am to have a non-biased news network like BBC.
I always disliked Fox for their bias, but also because I always supported democrats.
Having said that, I know where to put my political allegiances to side and focus on what is being said rather than who is saying it. Otherwise, a lefty like me wouldn’t even be here.

12920 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to A13, 4, #711 of 793 🔗

I think the point is that the people who generally establish the “received opinion” about bias are the same kinds of people who, by and large, have been setting the “received opinion” about this coronavirus, and they can’t see any bias in the BBC because the BBC is “their” propaganda outlet. Your brother in law is to be commended for seeing the bias in his own side’s outlet perhaps, but he’s clearly deluded on the BBC.

12962 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to A13, 2, #712 of 793 🔗

Welcome to the wonderful sane world of Tucker Carlson. His book ‘Ship of Fools’ is cracking.

12878 Christopher Downing, replying to Christopher Downing, 13, #713 of 793 🔗

I notice that The Guardian put up a very long rebuttal of sceptic behaviour and comment. Pretty much trashing everyone both past and present who have had contrary opinions to those telling the ‘truth’ – as The Guardian sees the truth. What was astonishing was their complete omission of any scientific evidence supporting lock-down, whilst saying the contrarians are the ones who omit any real scientific evidence. Dah!? I think the problem all along has been for Government Policy to be attributed to ‘scientific evidence’, whilst not sharing that evidence and the decision process with the rest of us. That has left us feeling that the rules are full of holes, anomalies, paradoxes, and contradictions. Generally, full grown mature adults don’t respond well to being treated like a 5-year-old. It’s now feeling more like Government Ministers covering their arse as they realise this whole thing is full of good news and we are coming out of a crisis that was 10x to 100x less worse than they said it would be. Although we are grateful its proving to be less life threatening; we are also going to be mighty ‘excited’ about the mammoth bill this will leave, with knock on tax increases for 20 years and zero investment in anything until the treasury balances the books …….who knows when ……in 2050 ?

12903 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Christopher Downing, 13, #714 of 793 🔗

The Guardian isn’t even fit to use as bog paper – too much ink comes off. It’s obvious from reading the comments section that it’s a paper for the pampered public sector who are very happy to sit at home doing fuck all.

12918 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Christopher Downing, 14, #715 of 793 🔗

Generally, full grown mature adults don’t respond well to being treated like a 5-year-old.

Sadly, I have to disagree on that point. I think the evidence if the past few months has demonstrated pretty conclusively that a significant majority of the UK population, at least, absolutely loves being treated like 5-year-olds.

12924 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mark, 11, #716 of 793 🔗

There’s been a decades long campaign of infantilisation… since at least 1997, the balance has been shifted inch by inch away from individual responsibility toward blind following of arbitrary rules dictated petty authority.

When the need and the desirability of using individual initiative is whittled away do the point of being vestigal, you can’t expect people to all of a sudden start figuring things out for themselves.

Thus this crisis has been an acid test of who has clung onto their own free will, and who has acquiesced to the ever-escalating nanny state.

12952 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, #717 of 793 🔗

‘mature’ though?

12889 Beefy, replying to Beefy, 24, #718 of 793 🔗

I see the BBC health correspondent had Coronavirus symptoms in January and tested positive months later. He’s convinced he was asynptomatic because the official first case came weeks after his symptoms . Well mate; it was in France and Italy in November, so any model assuming it didn’t get here until January is likely bullshit isn’t it? The groupthink and wilful blindness is incredible.

12910 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Beefy, 2, #719 of 793 🔗

I read that too and was a bit surprised, especially as it was on the BBC News website that I read about the positive tests for CV19 done on a patient near Paris who was ill in December. I thought it was pretty well accepted now, even by lockdown zealots, that the virus has been in Europe since at least mid December, if not earlier?

12916 ▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to The Spingler, 7, #720 of 793 🔗

Nope. Then they would have to admit their models are wrong. They are incompetent. I was reading before the lockdown that Italian virologists had established the virus was in Lonbardy in November. Hasn’t filtered through. But it will, oh it will. The MSM has to give it a but of time after their hysteria, but they will destroy the government when the penny finally drops.

12926 ▶▶▶▶ Alison, replying to Beefy, 5, #721 of 793 🔗

I’m starting to wonder about a really nasty, chesty cough and cold which did the rounds at
my work in December. Half the office off sick (nobody seriously unwell though) at one point or another and took a good while to shake off.

12943 ▶▶▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Alison, 4, #722 of 793 🔗

Yup same thing. I am in constant amazement at how people just follow the fear porn and not once stop to think they may have been exposed to CV but their blissful ignorance protected them at the time and they got on with their lives. I had a friend telling me this AM he isn’t sharing our car with us for a ride and not using public transport under any circumstances. The psychology of it all…. unbelievable.

12987 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to Pebbles, 3, #723 of 793 🔗

Many are innumerate and require thunking to be done for them. Easy for the government to manipulate

12983 ▶▶▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to Alison, 1, #724 of 793 🔗

Possibly. Although a dry cough seems to be more common. Do you work in London? I am sure it went around here.

13004 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Beefy, 1, #725 of 793 🔗

We came through HK airport from Australia on 11th December. I developed a chesty dry cough on the evening of Xmas day. It hung around for a couple of months and eventually my wife made me go to the Dr early March. She gave me a nasal spray (with me these things tend to end up as sinus related). TBH It was never more than an irritation – worse in the morning and night or after exercise. More I think about it the more I suspect I had it.

13182 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Beefy, #726 of 793 🔗

The MSM will only react when *their* personal freedoms are removed/restricted, or when members of their families go bankrupt or lost homes – at the moment they seem to be getting a free pass. It amazes me the number of journalists who are out and about, when they could work from home..

13016 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Beefy, #727 of 793 🔗

He also says he spent Christmas in Brussels, with mmm high death count…

12890 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 16, #728 of 793 🔗

So now Macron has followed through with his threat and slapped on a 14 day quarantine period for UK travellers. This is now beyond insanity meaning if you fancied had a long weekend booked in say – Nice in July – you would be looking to spend a toal of 28 days in quarantine either side of it.

12894 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to LGDTLK, 10, #729 of 793 🔗

It is the politics of the nursery playground.

12905 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Polemon2, 10, #730 of 793 🔗

Hopefully Macron will be helping us in making Johnson realise that the whole quarantine idea is just plain ludicrous at this stage, when we desperately need to get the country up and running properly, including the airlines and travel industry. But then I won’t hold my breath . . .

12911 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to CarrieAH, 10, #731 of 793 🔗

This is to prepare for the so called ‘second wave’ which doesn’t exist. And they don’t implement it until about June 8th so what’s the agenda here? Is the virus on a sabbatical until the 8th?

13178 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #732 of 793 🔗

It does make me worried that there are plans to release another virus into circulation in the autumn…

12929 ▶▶ Adele Bull, replying to LGDTLK, 2, #733 of 793 🔗

We booked our three week summer 20 holiday to France last year. Insurance won’t pay back deposit on apartment as we’re “not covered” for a pandemic and the English owner won’t pay it back or forward on to next year. Sigh…

12934 ▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Adele Bull, 4, #734 of 793 🔗

Shame the owner on Facebook. That’s what my brother did when he had to cancel his honeymoon apartment and they paid up.

12940 ▶▶ Pebbles, replying to LGDTLK, 6, #735 of 793 🔗

Absolute insanity… I have elderly family in Europe, so I am now in between not seeing them at allor doing 28 days quarantine bullshit in total with potentially no work in that period on top of it. Maybe Priti Patel will help out financially!? I was going to write the Human Rights Council but how else can one fight this? For months we have had people come in and not quarantining for goodness sake so why now? I guess it comes down to who has balls and goes first by scrapping the quarantining rule, somehow I feel it won’t be BoJo. Maybe the Donald. And those dumbass politicians better not get themselves caught out hopping to XYZ to conduct talks without doing the exact same thing…

13179 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to LGDTLK, #736 of 793 🔗

Will UK MPs with second homes in France be exempt? Expect so..

12898 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 17, #737 of 793 🔗

Local supermarket checkout today. I offered a £10 note. “Just put it on the counter please” – then she picked it up. Who knew that viruses could jump from one finger to another at such speed?

Local council has coned off half of a large section of a two lane road and provided specially made signs to tell us this is to provide a new cycle path. The new cyclepath runs parallel to an existing cycle path! They have also commissioned and erected two new roadside signs displaying “NHS Thankyou Rainbows” prominently placed on
main route to the local hospital.
The Council is, of course desperately short of money and has been paying below “true cost” fees to care homes
and home care agencies for the last 10 years.
What a wonderful world.

12925 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Polemon2, 5, #738 of 793 🔗

But all that virtue signalling is worth every penny!

13180 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Polemon2, 1, #739 of 793 🔗

Most shop assistants have been sound, but I do keep cash handy for when I spot one who is clearly a zealot nutjob, you can see the sneer under the mask. I hand the cash straight to their hand, then annoy the fuck out of them by asking for a receipt as well, even if I have spent less than a fiver

12899 Jennie, replying to Jennie, 6, #740 of 793 🔗

Rant:

Why are shops getting more – not less – draconian with their Theatre rules?
Where I went before it was fine, no queues and now – boom!

Tape on the floor
Employees wearing ill-fitting masks some pulled down from their nose
Constant blaring of Government Guidelines
Queuing outside with a disinfecting station.
My pet peeve – the perspex shield from human life

None of this happened for months and here we are with nary a soul departed enduring this.
Will these measures last forever?
Why aren’t they being relaxed?
Are shops enjoying getting a kick out of being draconian c***s?

I do not understand at all and it makes me mad. Are people going to stand in the snow, rail, hail and miserable grayness queueing for hours on a Saturday when they have to go back to work and only have a couple of days off?

I thought the research was clearly showing this is nothing apocalyptic yet it feels like the shops are doubling down.

Thank you people of the internet, this corner keeps me sane

13174 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jennie, 2, #741 of 793 🔗

Agree, they should be *relaxing* measures, not adding to them at this stage, since the virus is clearly on the decline. Here in Sweden, I went to my local IKEA today, where up till now the only measures in place have been that the restaurant and bistro are closed and that 2 of each group of 6 scanning/payment machines have been taped off (to allow spacing of people paying). Today, however, they were marshalls at each door to allow only a certain number of customers in, and social-distancing marshals in the entrance area and round the tills. It was a total joke – there was no need for queuing to get in (reduced footfall in shops since March, so no need to restrict numbers of shoppers) and there was actually nothing for these marshals to do, because people here are behaving sensibly (as ever). It was depressing to see that IKEA are doing this now, despite us being well past the peak over here. As I left the shop, I took the opportunity to press the angry face on the feedback machine, and to write a negative feedback comment; amongst other things I wrote that IKEA were wasting money employing marshals at all!

13183 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Jennie, #742 of 793 🔗

I always ‘accidently’ kick any perspex booth on the way to the till or whack it with my basket.

12932 A HUG IS HEALTH, 11, #743 of 793 🔗

Just returned from a very wet and windy Glasgow Green. There were a small band of stalwarts but again it was great to meet up with sane, liberty loving people.

No journalists ansd minimal police prescence.

I know there are many of you out there in the area so please join us next week at 12.00pm.

We are the solution.

12939 BrianJR, replying to BrianJR, 7, #744 of 793 🔗

Cummings – what a twat. So ill, but still able to drive. And then piss the neighbours off playing ABBA at full volume and prancing around in the “isolation garden”

I really really hope that the scruple-less scummy media actually go after him hard on this – find someone in London whose family died near Durham and didn’t travel beacasue of the rules – and get them on TV, crying and wailing about how unfair that was,then ask them what they think about Cummings and his brat.

Have to be honest, it really makes me smile to think how Bozza must be feeling at the moment. Such a highly regarded leader…….

12944 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to BrianJR, 3, #745 of 793 🔗

Either Cummings has him tied up in his basement, or he has secreted himself away in a dark room because he knows PRECISELY what he’s done.

12954 ▶▶▶ BrianJR, replying to Farinances, 3, #746 of 793 🔗

Read somewhere earlier Bozza is “enjoying” a whitsun weekend !
I wonder if he actually does realise, or even care.

12961 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BrianJR, #747 of 793 🔗

He realises. He doesn’t care. The dark room is simply to help him block out his hindsight tinitus.

13044 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to BrianJR, #748 of 793 🔗

Yes, I’m not sure if Boris is a sociopath or a psychopath, but I am certain that the only thing he cares about is himself. Carrie had better keep her wits about her!

12953 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BrianJR, 8, #749 of 793 🔗

Agree completely. My suggestion is that he, and Ferguson, go and explain themselves to the lady interviewed on Sky at around the same time they both broke the lockdown. She lived in the block opposite Grenfell, with three young boys, two of whom were autistic. It made me cry.

12956 ▶▶▶ BrianJR, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #750 of 793 🔗

I think my dream will materialise – Nick Robinson and Alistair Campbell getting agitated on Twitter, so hopefully some editor somewhere hungry for clicks will get their monkeys running on this with a 5pm deadline – pour some spoliers on the daily briefing

12992 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #751 of 793 🔗

“She lived in the block opposite Grenfell, with three young boys, two of whom were autistic. It made me cry.”

We know of several children who have been severely damaged by lockdown. The effect on a parent, seeing your children become increasingly disturbed whilst having literally no break and no support network, is incredible. Even within a 2 parent household it is so hard. What makes it worse is not knowing when it will end.
Discovering the risks to children are so low makes the suffering seem so pointless.

13008 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to James007, 2, #752 of 793 🔗

James, I have read some of your posts on here, and I cannot even imagine how difficult it is for you and your family. Your post yesterday was heartbreaking, and I hope your boy has seen his nana/will see her asap. The suffering is pointless, as we all know on here. The ‘leaders’ of this country need to hang their heads in shame and we all need to remind them of their failures at every opportunity.

12965 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to BrianJR, 1, #753 of 793 🔗

Agree 100%

12967 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 24, #754 of 793 🔗

My wife has just phoned her son and his family in Lithuania.

They are in a restaurant ! A fucking restaurant !! In Lithuania !!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh !!!!

Thanks Boris. We are now the banana state that people point at and laugh at. We can’t go out to eat, drink, or see family. Whereas Lithuania – that glorious land of pine forests, mushrooms, and, err, more pine forests – is leading the way.

I’m quite peeved. I shall need to chainsaw many logs to calm down today.

13007 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 1, #755 of 793 🔗

Welcome to the new Second World.

12974 karate56, replying to karate56, 10, #756 of 793 🔗

The government really do believe it in what they’re doing. They’ve just announced transport funding for buses, trains, trams so social distancing can be done more safely, £280 odd million. Their lockdown policies are here to stay, guaranteed, even if this country becomes an outlier, government will still believe this is the bubonic plague, regardless of evidence. We’re fucked and only a change in government of some kind will stop this. Since that won’t happen, we’re doubly fucked.

12978 ▶▶ Beefy, replying to karate56, 2, #757 of 793 🔗

No as time passes it will become indefensible

12986 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to karate56, 1, #758 of 793 🔗

At this point it comes across as trying to buy forgiveness to me.

13000 ▶▶ Beefy, replying to karate56, 1, #759 of 793 🔗

Don’t despair. They are building visions of an unsustainable future . We will win.

13041 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Beefy, #760 of 793 🔗

Yes, I think we will win, but it will be a Pyrrhic victory as the country will be french-connectioned!

13149 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to karate56, #761 of 793 🔗

One has to wonder how long they are thinking (planning?) for social distancing to continue, if they’re spending this much money on measures..

12981 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #762 of 793 🔗

The press conference is not going well, and Grant ‘Nice but Dim’ Shapps is not able to dig his masters out of the mess. Cummings is toast – and good riddance!

12985 ▶▶ BrianJR, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #763 of 793 🔗

Throw Shappsy a bigger spade – keep digging fella….

13037 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #764 of 793 🔗

Cummings seems to be Boris’s comfort blanket – and, even if I cared for Boris’s well-being, I would have to say that Cummings has to go; preferably to be followed rapidly by Boris.

13048 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to IanE, #765 of 793 🔗

Agree. Just watching Sky. Anita Boeteng (Conservative adviser) trying to defend Cummings and getting very shouty. The normally very shouty Ayesha Hazarika (Labour adviser) is calm and making sense. Can’t believe I am saying that. Cummings needs to be gone by tomorrow.

12982 Awkward Git, 7, #766 of 793 🔗

Out and about today causing trouble with the sheeple. Found out from friends who run takeaway the scam the EHOs are running by basically conning them into voluntarily restricting their operations “as per guidelines” so that the EHOs an councils do not have to follow the laws on notices etc and o not have to pay compensation so asked this on the gov.uk/ask website:

Guidelines have no legal force in law. EHOs are going round and basically scamming premises owners into following “coronavirus guidelines” by insinuating they are lawful and telling owners they cannot open or continue to trade without following them and the owners then run their operation under voluntary restrictions. Under the “coronavirus” legislation to restrict a premises’s operation there are strict rules and a system to follow including paying compensation. Are the councils and EHOs only doing this as they know owners do not know the law and so they do not have to pay compensation?

Don’t expect an answer though. Letter to the Federation of Small businesses I think next time I’m bored.

12991 Mimi, replying to Mimi, 11, #767 of 793 🔗

Just got back from an errand at our local shopping mall. I had a package that I could return in person, so I thought it would be instructive to see what the mall looks like.

I know malls were in danger before the COVID, but this has got to be their death knell. It was extraordinarily unpleasant. Signs everywhere ordering people to stay apart. At the store I visited, I was greeted by a staffer who ordered me to stand on the blue tiles and grab a mask. I was like, “do I have to wear it?” and she said YES, in rather unpleasant terms. With the plexiglass barriers on the counter, I could scarcely hear the girl running the cash register as she spoke through her mask. When my return was complete, I was ordered to pick up the items myself and drop them in this cardboard box – I suppose they’ll just throw them away, the awful contaminated things.

This store is staffed entirely by 20-somethings, or maybe even teenagers. This is in a state with 419 deaths total, over 10 weeks or so. It’s beyond ridiculous.

In Macy’s, some of the customers were wandering around without masks, at least. An old lady – mask free, and carrying some literal granny panties – asked me where on earth the cash registers had gone. I couldn’t answer this because they’ve completely rearranged the space. She didn’t seem worried about the COVID at least, which I found very refreshing.

I’ve hardly gone to the mall in recent years anyway, and I can be done with it. I have no desire to repeat that experience.

12996 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mimi, 6, #768 of 793 🔗

I haven’t been to our big local shopping centre, but I have been to various garden centres locally. I will only use one of them from now on – the one that is nice and relaxed and just paying a bit of lip service to the distancing regulations. The marks are on the floor but nobody bothers about them. The cashier is behind plexiglass, but they are using face shields instead of masks so that I can at least lip read, and laugh with me when I deliberately get the check out system all wrong. A sense of humour is a necessity nowadays. Shopping must be made pleasurable at least.

13132 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to CarrieAH, #769 of 793 🔗

Sense of humour always has been, is now, and always will be, a necessity.

13005 gipsy2222, 7, #770 of 793 🔗

In today’s Times magazine supplement, George Osborne describes Neil Ferguson as the “professor with what seems to be the most accurate model in the world”. Do George’s current employers know how good he is at assessing models? I hope he has never been in a position to use any models as a basis for spending other people’s money…
According to the article, George is living in a rented house in Somerset which seems a strange location for the principal residence of the editor of a London newspaper.

13010 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 15, #771 of 793 🔗

With apologies to Sg. Det. Insp. Officer Peter Piss-Pott of Twat Valley Police (surely a promotion to Chief Inspector beckons):

Today, in our shop, we witnessed the disgusting sight of two people actually enjoying hot chocolates, while their dog brazenly took a drink from a bowl of water. And in a frankly outrageous piece of anti-lockdown madness, one woman partook of a honey and lavender ice cream. Her dog shamelessly and recklessly gobbled a dog treat But perhaps the most extraordinary thing we witnessed was a young child, completely in contravention of lockdown rules, thoroughly revelling in a pot of chocolate ice cream and smearing it all over her face, before proceeding to joyfully run around the park that is currently closed to the public (on the orders of Terry Toss-Pott of Twatsville Town Council) ….

13012 ▶▶ Louise, replying to kh1485, 8, #772 of 793 🔗

Disgraceful. These people must really want old people to die.

13025 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 3, #773 of 793 🔗

To just make a more serious point. The little girl with the ice cream was cowering behind her father when they first came into the shop. It was really very sad sight. But a few minutes later, sat outside with a napkin tucked under her chin and with ice cream all round her mouth, a cheeky little grin spread across her face and it was a truly lovely sight.

13030 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to kh1485, 4, #774 of 793 🔗

Thanks for the hopeful picture. Chocolate ice cream is a winner for sure.

13034 ▶▶▶ Louise, replying to kh1485, 4, #775 of 793 🔗

My little boy often stops his home school lessons and politely tries to plead with me to let him back to school. “Mummy, I like lessons with you but I really want to be back at school, please can I?” it’s heartbreaking. My older son is missing a golden last term at his much-loved school after years and years of working diligently to improve himself.

13043 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Louise, 1, #776 of 793 🔗

It must be awful for them, poor mites. It was heartbreaking to start with seeing her cowering and she wouldn’t talk … But, she really gladdened my heart with that grin (oh for the days when chocolate ice cream was a cure-all …).

13129 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 1, #777 of 793 🔗

Still does the job for me, kh. Well, with a ciggie afterwards. 🙂

13032 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 1, #778 of 793 🔗

‘honey and lavender ice cream’ – heavens, what IS the world coming to?

13015 Alan Billingsley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 5, #779 of 793 🔗

Putting another cat amongst the pigeons, from the onset of virus to death is on average 4 to 5 weeks, then approx 1 week min to register death- approx 5.5 weeks total. Therefore from lockdown we would have expected the number of deaths to drop from the 30 April. However the drop in the death rate started around 14th April, too early for the lockdown to have had an affect. However after 30th April, when we would have expected to see a more dramatic effect on the death rate, we have seen a more gradual fall off in the number of deaths instead. This also happened in other countries such as Spain and Italy.
Maybe before lockdown the virus was infecting huge numbers, probably from January, at the same time increasing immunity and causing the death rate to drop in the middle of April. However the lockdown probably slowed down this increase in immunity and resulted in more deaths, whilst extending the length of time for the virus to die down. Which means instead of the end of May, it will be the middle of June before the deaths will be be down to double figures or less.
Just a theory!

13017 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Alan Billingsley, 2, #780 of 793 🔗

A lot of those later deaths were in care homes which they only started including in the figures at some arbitrary point which I’ve lost track of.

13018 Hail, 5, #781 of 793 🔗

“Although I’ve never been quite as bullish as Sunetra Gupta, who told Freddie she thinks it is somewhere between 0.1% and 0.01%.”

More randomized-full-population studies have come in under 0.1% than above it.

Dr, Ioannidis by late March was saying “0.01% to 0.1%” was likeliest from what data we had by then.

13021 Hail, replying to Hail, 4, #782 of 793 🔗

““Watch it before YouTube takes it down.” That was intended as a joke – surely, YouTube wouldn’t take down an interview with the Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology at Oxford, however much she dissented from Covid orthodoxy?”

Both Wittkowski interviews were deleted, with malice. A man with two PhDs and 35 years experience. Dr. Erickson seems to have a life-ban from appearing anywhere on Youtube.

Why not delete another Corona Denier?

13023 ▶▶ Bob, replying to Hail, #783 of 793 🔗

Her video is still up on YT.

13045 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Hail, #784 of 793 🔗

He’s here, but twas back in April https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ou2TqKo_wk

13036 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #785 of 793 🔗

Just watched the daily punch and judy show for the first time in weeks.

The Q&A is essential viewing. Apparently, you’re able to lockdown ‘in the most practical way you see fit’, according to little Granty Shapster.

13042 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #786 of 793 🔗

I’ll buy that!!

13039 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, -4, #787 of 793 🔗

Cummings
If you think he was wrong then it would appear that you agree with the lockdown.
If you think it was irrelevant, then you seem to be supporting the ability of intelligent people. with a reasonable knowledge of the facts, to make an informed choice. I thought that was what this site was all about.
Or do you just want to kick the government?

13064 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Polemon2, 3, #788 of 793 🔗

You are the third person here to be making this bizarre case that for some reason we should forgive Cummings his shamelessly hypocritical behaviour because to expect him to follow the rules is to “take the lockdown seriously”. You, Mike Smith in the comments below, and Brendan O’Neill, apparently, from the link given by Mike.

Let’s be absolutely clear here – hostility to Cummings and requiring his dismissal are fully justified by two simple facts: first he was a major part of pushing this lockdown insanity upon us (and that, frankly, is more than sufficient to condemn him), and second, as someone responsible for pushing the policy he then demonstrate a hypocritical disregard for it himself.

Nothing in that requires any respect for the lockdown itself. Still less does it need one to be motivated by “Remainer revenge”, as Brendan O’Neill rather pathetically suggests. I’m certainly no remainer – I’ve always been a fervent anti-internationalist and I’m pretty confident I was anti-EEC when he was still a communist.

It’s not lockdown sceptics calling for his head for being a lockdown prime mover and a hypocrite who need to explain themselves. Rather, it’s those who claim to be lockdown sceptics and yet are trying to protect the position in government of one of the guilty men responsible for inflicting the whole disaster on the country.

Explain yourselves. And no, it isn’t enough to declare “why should he be punished for breaking a lockdown we don’t support?” That’s just pathetic.

13068 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Polemon2, 1, #789 of 793 🔗

I personally don’t have a problem with what he did. My view is that there are probably plenty of people who haven’t been sticking to the letter of the law. Cummings and Calderwood et all are unlikely to be exceptional cases. I’ve been round my parents a few times, they’re both over 70, and not always for technically legitimate reasons (I washed their car for them once).

However they got caught and because they are relatively high profile they’re going to get flack for it. Some people will try to make political capital out of it. SNP will definitely be thinking how unfair it was that Calderwood had to quit so he should too.

There will be differing opinions on it. We’re not the Borg all thinking as one on here. The difference for others is that they’re not necessarily in a position to be telling everyone they need to follow the rules to the letter.

13073 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #790 of 793 🔗

You didn’t inflict the lockdown on other people, he did. Totally agree with Mark.

13088 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #791 of 793 🔗

That’s essentially what I was saying in my last sentence. If he was a regular Joe nobody would care. It really doesn’t bother me what he did because it’s probbly something I would do myself if I thought it was appropriate.

13243 Joe Avenel, #792 of 793 🔗

CDC have report estimates of symptomatic illness and death for flu from 2010-11 to 2018-19.
The average is around 29 million illnesses and 37,000. deaths
Dividing 37,000 by 29 million give the CFR rate of 0.1%. They make no estimation of asymptomatic infections for flu, and so 0.1% is not the IFR as you claim. The CDC estimates therefore make coronavirus 4 times more deadly than the flu.
CDC’s modelling of the IFR for coronavirus, puts it at 0.26%. This indicates 11.5% of the US population has been infected.
This seems very high, even New York State, which has seen almost a third of the total deaths, has only shown 14% infected and that was from actual serological testing, not modelling.

13251 Joe Avenel, #793 of 793 🔗

CDC have reported estimates of symptomatic illness and death for flu from 2010-11 to 2018-19.
The average is around 29 million illnesses and 37,000. deaths
Dividing 37,000 by 29 million give the CFR rate of 0.1%. They make no estimation of asymptomatic infections for flu, and so 0.1% is not the IFR as you claim. The CDC estimates therefore make coronavirus 4 times more deadly than the flu.
CDC’s modelling of the IFR for coronavirus, puts it at 0.26%. This indicates 11.5% of the US population has been infected.
This seems very high, even New York State, which has seen almost a third of the total deaths, has only shown 14% infected and that was from actual serological testing, not modelling.

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29409629
29Barney McGrew13, 16
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26crimsonpirate78, 11, 0
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