2020-05-26

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/05/26/latest-news-42/
Published2020-05-26T17:29:57
Last updated2020-05-26T17:40:53
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:03
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15072 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 65, #1 of 764 🔗

So we might get to see groups of friends and family… outside… in another MONTH? How is this really different to the current measly social allowances? Who the hell is going to actually abide by this? And why has the opening date for non-essential shops been pushed back? Still no word on pubs, cinemas, hairdressers, restaurants… all these are now open in other European countries…

I can’t believe how slowly we are lifting restrictions. The rest of the world is getting on with things and getting back to normal (albeit with silly distanced queues and muzzles, I was hoping these will disappear once people sense that the danger has fully passed) while we’re still in our tenth week of lockdown. What the hell is going on?!

15075 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Poppy, 18, #2 of 764 🔗

Boris and Dom retrospectively compensating for our supposed late lockdown by imposing as many masochistic/sadistic gestures as they can get away with. The records will show that they took this really seriously, yessirree.

15111 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Poppy, 45, #3 of 764 🔗

We cannot lift restrictions at the moment as we believe some small business may still be able to recover, best to wait another month.

Could you get my PA to check the value of Amazon shares, they seem to be doing rather well at the moment.

Sceptic what me, never.

15710 ▶▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to Dave #KBF, -1, #4 of 764 🔗

Skepticism is over-rated.

Every clever trousers calls himself a skeptic , and they’re typically the most credulous of fools, believing nonsense that would make a peasant of the dark ages blush in embarrassment at sharing the same gene pool.

The real clever people are cynics .

15117 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Poppy, 6, #5 of 764 🔗

Everyone is abiding by this, I meant a 35 year old friend that runs marathons for a walk at the weekend. He wouldn’t stand within 2 metres of me because of the risk.

15129 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to South Coast Worker, 14, #6 of 764 🔗

You’re right these changes are slow.

Gove actually said “the new normal”, as he painted the most depressing picture of retail I can imagine. No browsing, no trying on clothes. This is madness.

I think that people will follow these rules. I am a sceptic and wouod be happy to meet with people, but my family and friends are not sceptics.

15249 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James007, 5, #7 of 764 🔗

But I bet Gove and co have no problem distancing from their tailors when they go suit shopping.

15308 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #8 of 764 🔗

Yes and where are they all getting their hair cut. I’m a shaggy mess.

15273 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to James007, 17, #9 of 764 🔗

To call it madness is an understatement,well Gove you slimy little toad,it’s not the ‘new normal’it is completely abnormal and so are you and the rest of your useless government.The morons that run this country are insane,they must be,if not what the bloody hell is going on ? !.I agree with you James007,most people will just go along with this like brain dead drones,just like they have been doing for weeks,I’m sure my family members that died in the second world war would be really impressed with the utter and complete lack of backbone this country has now,I really am heading towards despair now.

15297 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to James007, 5, #10 of 764 🔗

“New normal” is repeated by governments around the world. It’s not just Gove, which is no coincidence.

15533 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lms23, #11 of 764 🔗

happening all over them world, here’s an example:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/4nJdjNbWSVIB/

You can spot it if you flick between BBC, ITV, Sky and so on and catch all the phrases and sometimes whole reports with the same wording repeated between national and local news.

15421 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to James007, 9, #12 of 764 🔗

Gove is a complete snake. This is the man who gave us three years of Mayplosion purely out of self interest because he couldn’t bear to see Boris become leader over him: three years ago, according to Gove, Boris was not fit to lead and now, according to Gove, he can do no wrong… People like Gove are really scum, sorry to say – don’t like to talk about fellow humans like that – but what else can you say?

15481 ▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to South Coast Worker, 2, #13 of 764 🔗

He’s a fool, I can assure you everyone is not

15121 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Poppy, 16, #14 of 764 🔗

My sentiments exactly. I really can’t fathom why, despite the mounting evidence showing how trivial this ‘pandemic’ has been,that very few in the MSM or the Westminster bubble appears to be openly challenging the Governments stance on this.I can’t believe that I won’t be able to see my family in any meaningful way for another 5 WEEKS!

15164 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to T. Prince, 26, #15 of 764 🔗

Errrr just do it. No one’s going to stop you…..

15174 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Cruella, -14, #16 of 764 🔗

Do you want people to die?

15175 ▶▶▶▶▶ Thomas Pelham, replying to Barney McGrew, 17, #17 of 764 🔗

Yup. Life without death would be horrible.

15177 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Thomas Pelham, replying to Thomas Pelham, 7, #18 of 764 🔗

Just imagine creativity and expression fading away as we live yet another season; listless and empty humanity ceases to care about anything as the very act of living becames pain beyond pain.

Sounds like lockdown actually.

15204 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 26, #19 of 764 🔗

I clearly should have included < /sarc > !

15263 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #20 of 764 🔗

I got it.

15460 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #21 of 764 🔗

I knew what you meant Barney.

15466 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to paulito, 1, #22 of 764 🔗

That it was sarcastic I mean.

15614 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to paulito, #23 of 764 🔗

Me too, but people are on a hair-trigger now…

15250 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, #24 of 764 🔗

I could name a few ……

15261 ▶▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Barney McGrew, #25 of 764 🔗

The virtue seeker’s revenge

15294 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Barney McGrew, #26 of 764 🔗

I will do one day!

15299 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Barney McGrew, #27 of 764 🔗

That’s sarcasm, right?

15265 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to T. Prince, 6, #28 of 764 🔗

I saw my parents two days ago, and we had lunch and tea inside.

15503 ▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Jonathan Castro, 3, #29 of 764 🔗

I went to a secret party and Dom C and N Ferguson were there, had a shit time talking bollocks, the champagne was warm and canapés all vegan so I sprinted back to my lockdown cell for a beer and a sausage roll to find out the RNLI want the beaches closed! Marvellous.

15749 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rick, 1, #30 of 764 🔗

Unbr,irvzble.nI thought RNLI ‘heroes’ were willing to risk their lives to save other people’s, not vice versa.

15751 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, #31 of 764 🔗

OS Hell of a typo, sorry, need edit button.

15245 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Poppy, 3, #32 of 764 🔗

Try living in Scotland where we’re around 14 weeks from where England will be in 3 weeks.

15251 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark H, #33 of 764 🔗

My condolances – this is bad enough!

15328 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark H, 4, #34 of 764 🔗

Or in Wales – total paralysis under a nauseating squad of brainless Stalinist thugs.

15487 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mark H, #35 of 764 🔗
15462 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Poppy, #36 of 764 🔗

The government doc says that “Sage are considering us to allow the use of bubbles like in New Zealand”, but this will only allow us to connect with one other household, and that is if the medical experts see fit to allow this.

15470 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to daveyp, 4, #37 of 764 🔗

How will they actually enforce the one household rule though? It’s also totally impractical, because your chosen household has to choose you as well. Most people will just interact normally with several households.

15566 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Poppy, #38 of 764 🔗

Probably the 20,000 trace and trackers, more CCTV, and porbably offering cash incentives to report.

15480 ▶▶ Beefy, replying to Poppy, 1, #39 of 764 🔗

That is happening now in London. In gardens and parks.

15074 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 40, #40 of 764 🔗

Really Hancock? A special post-hoc carve-out for people who incurred fines trying to sort out childcare commitments? That’s your effing answer?

How about cancel all the fines, for everyone, and while you’re at it, jump off a f**ing cliff?

15119 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to AidanR, 6, #41 of 764 🔗

I thought all of them had already been cancelled as they were unlawful.

15132 ▶▶ Sceptic, replying to AidanR, 5, #42 of 764 🔗

Cummings is a protected species. So change the law to accommodate him.

15078 A13, 9, #43 of 764 🔗

Just finished watching mini documentary series about Gates on youtube.

For those who haven’t seen it:

https://www.corbettreport.com/gates/

15080 South Coast Worker, replying to South Coast Worker, 19, #44 of 764 🔗

GSK have the remdisivir contract, (which has zero affect on death rate) and their offices are in Barnard Castle. What are the chances? Developed by Gilead, with funding from the conspiracy holy trinity, Gates, Clinton, and Soros. Fantastic! Maybe we are living in a simulation after all.

15082 ▶▶ IanE, replying to South Coast Worker, 6, #45 of 764 🔗

Quite – we couldn’t know (unless the red/blue pill choice is offered). I genuinely find it hard to understand how the current idiocies could occur within a real reality!

15090 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to South Coast Worker, 3, #46 of 764 🔗

I understand that Dominic Cummings’ car reg has been shown on news reports. Would be interesting if someone could see if his car was anywhere near the offices of GSK …

15123 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to South Coast Worker, 4, #47 of 764 🔗

There are a lot of things around the ‘Barnard Castle Defence’ that do not stack up. Even if we accept he needed to go for a nice little run to test his eyes a few days after he tested them when he picked his wife and boy up from their overnight stay in hospital (as to that – which hospital and why would an ambulance be dispatched to pick up a child who had ‘just’ vomited in the night?) why not travel to a much closer beauty spot (Shotley Bridge). The man who spotted him walking along the river in Barnard Castle was interviewed last night on Sky – he only saw Cummings and ‘others’ in the distance. Obviously he has now given statements to the police, but at least in this interview he did not mention specifically a woman (Mrs Cummings) and a child. So was Mr Cummings meeting someone else/other people?

15138 ▶▶▶ Sceptic, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #48 of 764 🔗

It reeks of.a story constructed after the fact.

15137 ▶▶ Sceptic, replying to South Coast Worker, 7, #49 of 764 🔗

They can still make money out of it but there is zilch to make out of Hydroxycloroquine it’s been around too long.

15227 ▶▶ Sophie123, replying to South Coast Worker, #50 of 764 🔗

What? GSK and Gilead are competitors (in HIV), not partners. And Barnard Castle is just a manufacturing site. GSK’s offices are in that big ugly building off the M4 flyover.

15081 Dave Tee, replying to Dave Tee, 4, #51 of 764 🔗

I share the general negativity about Hancock and I am anti-lockdown but I have to admit that today’s presser was a masterclass from him. He fucked off Peston and La Kuenssberg in fine style.  Fair play. This is what politicians do when they’re on top form.

15083 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Dave Tee, 4, #52 of 764 🔗

Sadly, top form for Hancock is down in the sewers.

15097 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dave Tee, 24, #53 of 764 🔗

I’m sorry I cannot take any comfort from that. The whole spectacle is literally tragic. Hopelessly misguided leaders sparring with equally misguided journalists, both sides thinking they are taking part in a real debate. Only a fool argues in a burning house.

15252 ▶▶▶ Paul Seale, replying to Julian, 8, #54 of 764 🔗

Agreed, it’s like watching two bald men fight over a comb.

15127 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Dave Tee, 12, #55 of 764 🔗

Well, he might have been central to the biggest peacetime disaster ever visited upon this country, and he may have the biggest drain on the nation’s morale, resources and health in his portfolio.

But at least he’s good at doing a turn in the circus.

Sorry, I’m not having it. Next time I have to dial 999 for an ambulance, just send a quick-thinking rhetorician instead of a paramedic, eh?

15086 Julian, replying to Julian, 27, #56 of 764 🔗

As mentioned, there’s an update to the government’s virus roadmap out today.

There’s nothing I could find focusing on the updates only so I skimmed the whole thing. It’s a fairly light read.

The intention may not be evil, but the effects will be, if we are not careful. I recommend everyone read it, and send it to your friends, and enemies, post links to it everywhere, maybe with your own summary of what you see as the key points.

It’s clear that the intention is to micromanage public and private activity in this country, in an unprecedented way, indefinitely. Social distancing, covid-safe rules, possible repeats of more stringent restrictions, are all here to stay. There’s nothing that says we’ll ever be able to get back to normal. EVER.

The only good thing I can say about it is that there’ll be more focus on protecting care homes and vulnerable groups, testing, and PPE. Those all seem like sensible things, but they should be business as usual, and the national emergency needs to be declared over. I fear it won’t be.

I remain convinced a lot of people still think this will be over soon, and a lot of those want it to be over (some don’t). They are in for a nasty shock, and I think those are the people to persuade.

The only chink of optimism I can muster regarding this chilling read is that there are a few references to “smarter” ways to control the spread of the virus. There’s perhaps some wiggle room there for the government to look like they are still on the case of preventing all death, forever, while actually doing nothing more than sensible public health measures like monitoring illnesses, public awareness. Perhaps when the money runs out they will want to use that wiggle room. For now, I think they relish being at the controls.

Every adult citizen in this country should be forced to read this document, recite its contents, summarise their understanding of it, reflect on what it means to them and their lives, and think about how we get out of this.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/our-plan-to-rebuild-the-uk-governments-covid-19-recovery-strategy/our-plan-to-rebuild-the-uk-governments-covid-19-recovery-strategy

15095 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 32, #57 of 764 🔗

The indefinite continuation of monitoring and control of the population must NOT be allowed to happen..

15099 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Julian, 17, #58 of 764 🔗

Incredibly depressing document.

I oscillate between optimism – that we will get out of this, that things will go back to the OLD normal – and severe dejection – that we’ll be stuck with these life-curtailing measures forever.

15271 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Poppy, 7, #59 of 764 🔗

I’m setting up a new website for the Conservative Freedom Party. Really conservative, and totally anti-lockdown.

It will just be a talking shop really to start with. Some kind of pressure group thing with a space where people can suggest policies if they want.

15103 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Julian, 7, #60 of 764 🔗

Having read that document, I now feel physically sick.

15239 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to AidanR, 2, #61 of 764 🔗

Truly frightening document iv been steadily getting in to more of a panic as the weeks go by I work in hospitality and truly think that bojo will quite happily sacrifice this sector and 3 + million jobs for the greater good of course!

15620 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Nic, 4, #62 of 764 🔗

I think that Boris and his parliamentary chums will end up with a situation where the 1% can still afford to drink and eat and socialise in places that have put their prices up 300% to make their businesses viable under social dick-stancing.

The rest of us will be stuck with queuing to go in a fucking Wetherspoons that looks more like one of those experiments they build for lab rats.

15637 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to AidanR, 3, #63 of 764 🔗

Yes, that’s part of the problem – they will find myriad ways to avoid following their own rules so they have no skin in the game.

15104 ▶▶ Anthony, replying to Julian, 13, #64 of 764 🔗

I’ll give it a read.

I think you’ve hit upon the most important question that needs to be asked:

When the threat has gone, i.e. no new infections and no deaths, will we return to normal – no masks, no social distancing, no plastic screens, cash accepted everywhere, pubs fully open etc etc?

15120 ▶▶▶ Cody, replying to Anthony, 8, #65 of 764 🔗

Doubtful as they’ll use the restrictions you mention as the reason why there’s no new infections.It depressingly looks like the current restrictions are here for the long term.

15124 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Anthony, 22, #66 of 764 🔗

We may get to zero infections and deaths, we may not. We’ll certainly get to numbers that are small enough to not scare people.

But the threat of a second wave can always be used. The document is very clear that the phase we are in will continue in whatever form the government deems appropriate until a vaccine or treatment is found which it freely admits may be never.

This document sets out a plan to rebuild the UK for a world with COVID-19

I think by rebuild they don’t mean rebuilding what they have just knocked down, they mean reshape.

It is indeed a world with COVID-19, but a world with many other illnesses and diseases. By and large throughout human history we have learnt to deal with them in a way that suits us, with all the compromises that entails.

I think it’s important to get it into people’s heads that COVID-19 is just another thing than can kill you, among many. It’s not unique. We don’t shut the world down or stay 2 metres away from eachother, forever, because of the flu.

15348 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Julian, 8, #67 of 764 🔗

They might as well say “This document sets out a plan to rebuild the UK for a world with the common cold.’“ Wowza. Don’t let them grind you down. Vote with your pockets. Unless you really HAVE to do something don’t participate anywhere there are imposed restrictions.

15538 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 2, #68 of 764 🔗

Bill gates recorded and interview a while back threatening there will be wave after wave unless a vaccine is given to everyone. Will try and find the link if ti still exists.

I think it may have been the same interview (but not 100% sure) where the interviewer told him to stop calling the vaccine “the final solution”.

15577 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #69 of 764 🔗

Wondering if that’s the same interview I’ve seen, where Gates specifically says that we don’t want a situation in which loads of people are walking round having recovered from the virus…

It’s funny but my (one) vehemently anti-lockdown friend, who also despised Bill Gates 25 or so years ago, reckons that in recent years he’s become more genuinely philanthropic. Whereas I reckon the man is a lethal megalomaniac who’s buying his way into every possible corridor of power.

15136 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Anthony, 1, #70 of 764 🔗

Whatever else comes back, cash will be gone for good.

And all those pubs, restaurants etc that have gone away are not coming back and many more yet will now fail… and they won’t be coming back either.

But then, a lot of these could be handily converted into relatively affordable flats, so there’s that, if the planning shitmonkeys can be counted on to get their homunculus asses out of the.

15343 ▶▶▶▶ AngryCashUser, replying to AidanR, 4, #71 of 764 🔗

I will be forcing cash into the hand of any seller who refuses it. Legal tender, f*ck the “safety” policies. I do not accept cashless fascism and urge everyone else to copy this example, if enough of us don’t play by the rules of the “new normal” surevillance state then they will have to give up.

15850 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to AngryCashUser, #72 of 764 🔗

I have a standing prediction that at Rishi’s next budget he’ll set the wheels in motion for the abolition of cash… it was a big ambition of Osborne’s.

15429 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Anthony, #73 of 764 🔗

Short answer : No. (Just in case)

15144 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Julian, 24, #74 of 764 🔗

“It is clear that the only feasible long-term solution lies with a vaccine or drug-based treatment.”

WTF! It doesn’t even really affect anyone under 70 apart from those with underlying illness, yet we are all waiting for a vaccine that will more than likely kill or disable more people than the virus ever would!

15430 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to daveyp, 3, #75 of 764 🔗

Oh…. But but but it (the virus) might evolve and adapt…

Said some poor sap to me today

15444 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to ianp, 3, #76 of 764 🔗

I keep hearing this from people too, what they don’t take into consideration is that most viruses evolve to become less potent, as it’s not in the virus’ best interest to kill the host, as it is killing itself.

They keep giving the Spanish flu as an example, but it is believed that the doses of Aspirin people were treated with was responsible for killing people in the subsequent outbreaks after the first wave.

15584 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to daveyp, #77 of 764 🔗

Absolutely right about aspirin and Spanish flu. The following is from history.com, and an ominous warning for the “we’re going with the science” brigade:

“Before the spike in deaths attributed to the Spanish Flu in 1918, the U.S. Surgeon General, Navy and the Journal of the American Medical Association had all recommended the use of aspirin. Medical professionals advised patients to take up to 30 grams per day, a dose now known to be toxic. (For comparison’s sake, the medical consensus today is that doses above four grams are unsafe.) Symptoms of aspirin poisoning include hyperventilation and pulmonary edema, or the buildup of fluid in the lungs, and it’s now believed that many of the October deaths were actually caused or hastened by aspirin poisoning.”

15158 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 8, #78 of 764 🔗

Depressing as this kind of stuff is, there is an element of “the worse the better” in it. The stupider and costlier they make their policies, the more people will start to rebel, and the more businessmen will be interested in backing resistance.

15171 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 3, #79 of 764 🔗

I hope you are right, and I stupidly hadn’t thought of businessmen as a good source of resistance. They are often not seen in a good light, and they haven’t always done well in battles against excessive regulation.

I would just like to get as many people as possible open to what might be coming so it stops sooner and the catastrophe only sets us back 5 years and not 10 or 20.

15180 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 5, #80 of 764 🔗

There’s a few high profile names have come out strongly against it: Simon Dolan, Elon Musk, Sir Rocco Forte, couple of others I can’t put my mind to atm.

15237 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #81 of 764 🔗

Yes, let’s hope the Dolan legal case gets some attention.

15195 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Mark, 11, #82 of 764 🔗

Read an interview with the head of the Spanish association of retailers. It represents big retail chains including. IKEA. He wasn’t happy about what is happening and when asked if his association planned legal action, he replied with an emphatic yes but that it was not the best time to do it. Hope to see this legal action soon as businesses slowly come back to some sort of life.

15215 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to paulito, 3, #83 of 764 🔗

Yes, i think there are quite a few who realise the disaster they’re facing but can’t risk coming out in public opposition yet while the panic is still in full force.

15326 ▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to paulito, #84 of 764 🔗

That’s good news!

15431 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to paulito, 2, #85 of 764 🔗

Hate to be a pessimistic sod today, but you do know the law could simply be changed to not allow for a legal challenge? In the name of ’emergency measures’…

15224 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Julian, 10, #86 of 764 🔗

People are already ignoring social distancing. Young people, in particular, will not stand for it much longer. I’ve seen plenty of groups milling around and no sign of Plod. A lot of this stuff is just written by imbecilic civil servants who have no expectation it will ever take effect.

15307 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #87 of 764 🔗

Yes but every business, venue, club etc etc will have to comply with these rules or be shut down.

Online schools and universities, no touching things in shops, offices where you sit miles apart and can’t congregate by the watercooler, public transport where you are hectored by marshals, empty pubs with no standing room, no more music festivals, half empty stadiums, leisure centres, museums etc etc.

All of those places will have the life regulated out of them and however much we ignore the rules the rules will continue to exist as long as the lies and delusions continue to be believed.

There will be the constant threat of legal cases, government inspections, snitches. Human nature will push back but we are not out of the woods. There are a few precedents for free countries that lost their freedom. Quite recent, too.

15351 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Hammer Onats, 8, #88 of 764 🔗

They are unbelievably stupid. So people are going to stop dating are they? They’re going to stop meeting new people and they’re going to stop having sex? Only the most insane morons could come up with something like this.Resist. Maybe we’ve all read 1984 too many times.

15561 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #89 of 764 🔗

Two gin-scented tears trickled down the side of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

15755 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to AidanR, #90 of 764 🔗

We don’t! We hate BB! BB is ungood! We support Goldstein!

BTW, haven’t we acquired a lot of Newspeak lately? And isn’t it just horrrrrrible?

15842 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to annie, #91 of 764 🔗

Yes, and yes… Doubleplus ungood.

15489 ▶▶▶ Beefy, replying to Hammer Onats, #92 of 764 🔗

One by one people are waking up

15586 ▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Beefy, #93 of 764 🔗

I hope to God you’re right.

15323 ▶▶ karate56, replying to Julian, 4, #94 of 764 🔗

The fact there is no phase 3 says it all. The document implicitly states a vaccine or social distancing forever. Somehow i think there may be a revolution as there will be no vaccine. Not a fucking hope in hell. If cases continue to fall i can see mass disorder in the next few weeks and months if this shit doesn’t end. Also, the document was no doubt written by s proper twat.

15696 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to karate56, 1, #95 of 764 🔗

There could be, but for it to be safe to roll out to the public you are looking 5-10 years. Then you have the manufacturing stage to produce 70 million doses just in this country, and then the logistics of scheduling everyone to be vaccinated. It would take decades!

15346 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Julian, 7, #96 of 764 🔗

Unless (and it’s a real possibility) Covid just burns out like SARS in which case (apart from the collateral suffering) all their posturing will be irrelevant. I do not believe that for the rest of their lives people are going to be on the alert for a non-existent virus. In the 1970s London was really in the grip of a hard hitting IRA bombing campaign. You didn’t stop going to work and nobody looked under their bus seats for bombs. You just got on with it. People will forget SD (I refuse to call it ‘social’ when it is anything but) when they realise they’re trying to avoid a virus that isn’t there. Gotcha!

15432 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 6, #97 of 764 🔗

Have you ever known so many people to be brainwashed though? I find that terrifying quite honestly. No matter how many facts you thrust at them they’re in denial… And still sign off with ‘stay safe’ for god’s sake

15596 ▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to ianp, 2, #98 of 764 🔗

It’s classic cult behaviour.

15592 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 3, #99 of 764 🔗

I remember after the 7/7 London bombings, people stoically continued using public transport. After all, we all needed to get to work and to continue living our lives. Even after a failed attempt at further tube and bus bombings three weeks later, we just carried on. I remember feeling slight trepidation at first, but that sensation quickly disappeared.

I just fail to understand why everyone is now allowing themselves to be terrorised by a pathogen which, evidence suggests, is far less lethal for most than the flu potentially is. People play hard and loose with their health and safety all the time. So what on earth is going on??

15428 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Julian, 6, #100 of 764 🔗

What the fuck are these lies… For a start, it isn’t a respiratory infection. It’s more like a blood clot ffs… Remember all that crap about ventilators? Went quiet didn’t it? because they do no fucking good, and they are more likely to kill a patient than cure them. So why still mention respiratory?

Jesus, this is now so sinister it’s beyond scary.

How long can someone play this NHS overwhelmed card when hospitals are fucking empty. I feel like booking myself in for something just to film how bloody ‘overwhelmed’ they are.

15488 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to ianp, #101 of 764 🔗

Those YouTube dance routines don’t film themselves.

15673 ▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Julian, #102 of 764 🔗

Are you sure this is from a government website…or did they copy and paste it from 1984? I f**king despair for this country..What have have we become and how much worse will it get?

15093 Alan Whicker, 27, #103 of 764 🔗

Whilst furloughed from BA and awaiting my fate, I’m currently working for a well known high street supermarket as a home delivery driver. None of my colleagues in this huge supermarket seem bothered by Coronavirus and are carrying out there duties pretty much as normal. Good job, as otherwise the country would starve. Only a small number of customers wear masks, though the absurd 2m queueing rule is observed. The lockdown is over in all but name. Let people decide for themselves if they wish to take precautions. In the meantime let’s all get back to work and go for a pint on a Friday like we used to pre madness.

15094 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 25, #104 of 764 🔗

I enjoyed a motorway drive yesterday and it felt as though I had gone back a few decades. Maybe this cloud has one silver lining.I was expecting to see an Austin Maxi in the left hand lane. For those who are millenials the motorways used to be like this and it once was a pleasure to drive. I was on essential business of course and was going to take the opportunity to meet as I was passing by a family member and his wife for tea .

However my sister in law is a ” mitarbeiter ” of the Stasi and felt it was inappropriate . I suspect as our merry band of sceptics are outnumbered by the wet pantyhose wearers that is not uncommon to find there is sharp disagreements in families probably similar to the Brexit/Remain divisions.

Shopping today in M and S with the queue and nutters wearing their masks, coming with the news that we are in lockdown/social distancing for the forseeable future makes me however truly despair.

15110 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #105 of 764 🔗

I do a thousand miles a week for work, and I must admit, it has been quite nice! Not having to worry about rush hour for the last 3 months, don’t need to plan around traffic. It’s been less stressful. A lot busier than it was, but still no traffic. Fist couple of weeks were so odd, you wouldn’t see another car at all across 4 lanes of the Motorway. It was like it was 3 in the morning all day.

15257 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to South Coast Worker, 2, #106 of 764 🔗

It had occurred to me that, given how deserted the motorways were at the beginning, how did DomCum drive 260+ miles (each way!) without the police motorway spies noticing?

15334 ▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #107 of 764 🔗

Precisely!

15300 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #108 of 764 🔗

I’m getting an ever more hard to resist urge to slap mask-wearers as they parade themselves around my town with the haughty aloofness they all seem to have,I will try hard to resist the urge but it is difficult.I refuse to use any shop that makes customers queue outside and they can all stick the 2 metre crap where the sun never illuminates.

15571 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Paul, #109 of 764 🔗

As long as you slap them like this…… https://youtu.be/gVsloCJDYjE

15600 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Paul, #110 of 764 🔗

I’m with you on the mask wearers. Regarding shops and queuing… I don’t think it’s their fault, as there is the constant threat of being shut down if they don’t comply.

15357 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #111 of 764 🔗

Best analogy I heard against wearing a mask (which I have always thought was stupid and ineffective) is that’s it’s like using a chain-link fence to stop a mosquito.

15669 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Peter Thompson, #112 of 764 🔗

Don’t be lulled! I had the same feelings driving too. Absolute pleasure have to say, just make sure you have enough fuel as no services are open

It does not compensate for the total madness though.

But keep your eyes peeled … I have said it before but their are huge infrastructure projects happening right now. Smart (hate them) motorways, all lighting is now new energy efficient- noticed that?, 5g rollout, fibre optic upgrades… The fucking works.

If the end game is to wipe us all (as is frighteningly plausible) out then why go to all that trouble? Unless it’s the tiny carrot for accepting the big stick of fucking ‘new normal’

15098 annie, replying to annie, 46, #113 of 764 🔗

Owing to shortage of wardrobe space, or possibly an excess of clothes, I have a twice-yearly routine of swapping winter clothes for under-bed-stored summer ones in spring, and vice versa in the autumn.

I’ve just done the springtime swap-over and it was a weird experience. When I last wore those clothes, I was a free woman in what I thought – in fact, took for granted – was a free country. I wore that jacket to church most Sundays. I wore those trousers on my riding holiday. I was wearing that t-shirt when I last went to Hay-on-Wye and got punch-drunk on unlimited book-browsing. I wore that skirt to the music society’s summer party. I could do all of these things freely. I could hop in the car and go where I liked, when I liked, and nobody could stop me.

And now I am a prisoner in a slave society. I can’t drive anywhere, or even walk anywhere, without that creepy feeling that the police, or some malevolent informer, is watching me. My instinct is to wear dark colours and creep into corners and slink along the back roads. Going to church is impossible. Going into the café across the road from the church, for a quiet coffee, is inconceivable. The idea that a friend might join me in the café is outright crimethink.

There are moments, aren’t there, when you realise very acutely just what a miserable slave you have become? No wonder prisoners of old used to dash their brains out against the walls of their cells.

BUT another thought did come to me. By the time the autumn clothes swap falls due, things may be different. Maybe there will be irrefragable proof that lockdowns didn’t work, don’t work, aren’t working, will never work and could never work. Maybe the sheeple will have learned to chant ‘LOCKDOWN BAD!’. Maybe they’ll be bleating for the blood of those who enslaved us. Maybe everyone will be clamouring to have heads served up on platters. Maybe s.d. will have been discarded as the poisonous nonsense it is. Maybe we will be free again.

Something in my bones tells me that it will happen. Unfortunately I can’t always rely on what my bones tell me – if I could I’d be a millionaire – but at least they are telling me something positive.

Let us pray that it will be so.

Keep your courage up, brothers and sisters.

15259 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #114 of 764 🔗

I was looking at my full wardrobe and thinking that, as there’s nowhere to go, I might as well clear out a lot of my clothes.

15336 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #115 of 764 🔗

Keep them! Wear them at the end-of-lockdown parties.

I have helped fight for smaller causes that once seemed equally unpromising, and we won.

Never, never give in, even in the darkest recesses if your mind.

15392 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to annie, 8, #116 of 764 🔗

I realised I was in denial today when I sat in the garden in my Christmas sparkly jumper (I’m not even making an effort anymore!), too hot, and irritated because I do the same as you, and have a winter and summer wardrobe (and shoes) and swap them over into and out of storage. I have some LOVELY, elegant, summer clothes, and I realised today I have resisted unpacking them as I can’t bear it. I have also got two new pairs of shoes, still in the box, that arrived just before lockdown, that I bought for work. I’m with a new firm and I’m having to do more client meetings (I’m an associate consultant, so can skulk at home for most of the time), and needed a better working wardrobe. I bought them for that inbetweeny – we’ve left the winter, but it’s not quite proper spring – period and it struck me today, they’ll stay in the box now, because it’s bloody summer!

Although, a close family member came over today, first time I’ve seen her in ten weeks, and it was so good to chat and laugh, and find she’s as sceptical as me (well maybe not quite, I didn’t give her the full maximum force of my scepticism, but the polite company version) and we both said, given we both largely work from home, with travel for meetings, and our working week is largely the same, at desk with a few forays to the shop for provisions, that it’s been extraordinary how badly we’ve both coped. The best as I can describe it, the worst part of all this is, for me, is the lack of forward momentum. Of course all the other insane things about it are awful, but on a very personal level, the feeling that my life is not moving forwards, and I can’t do anything about that, is the worst.

15101 TJN, replying to TJN, 1, #117 of 764 🔗

Dominic Cummings: ‘ We agreed that we should go for a short drive to see if I could drive safely. We drove for roughly half an hour and ended up on the outskirts of Barnard Castle town.’

Edmund Blackadder: ‘Great Boo’s up.’

15106 ▶▶ IanE, replying to TJN, 2, #118 of 764 🔗

Yes – and if he found he couldn’t drive safely and stop in time to miss the person who stepped out in front of him, he would always have the excuse that the other person had been out for more than thirty minutes!

15102 FistfulOfDollars, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 42, #119 of 764 🔗

This is not intended as a defence of Dom Cummings, but I need to say it.

The MSM keeps harking on about public outrage regarding his actions. They’re outraged because they believe the inaccurate & narrow-minded coverage in the hate campaign peddled by said MSM.

And I’m not surprised they’re outraged, either, because most people won’t know about the subtleties mentioned in the official guidelines around caring for small children, which were there from the start, because NOT ONCE have they been covered by said MSM.

Said MSM, instead, would rather incite complete hysteria and fear amongst the population by cherrypicking and recontextualising statistics from all over the world, when they could have been helping people to understand guidelines.

And this same hysteria, peddled by said MSM, and lack of understanding of the guidelines, allowed to happen by said MSM, is why the public are so outraged by him taking a reasonable action in the case of caring for his child. And now said MSM gobbles up this outrage and spews it back into the papers and television reports.

When will the majority – I’m excluding you guys because I know you get it – in this country wake up and realise what sanctimonious, schoolyard sh*tstirers institutions like the BBC have become? Creating a world where outrage and polarisation win out over all reason and humanity? It’s a disgrace.

And I was a big BBC fan before this whole crisis. Never agin.

15113 ▶▶ James007, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 15, #120 of 764 🔗

“Creating a world where outrage and polarisation win out over all reason and humanity? It’s a disgrace.”

Absolutely. It’s like a once well respected and important institution has become rather like a tabloid newspaper. Hysteria and panic sell.

Who questioned the government on reason and humanity, as they pushed us into an authoritarian existence? Telling us we are not able to see our loved ones?

15374 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to James007, 3, #121 of 764 🔗

They are wrong.

We are right.

So visit them anyway!

15128 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to FistfulOfDollars, #122 of 764 🔗

Got no answer yesterday, so I ask again. Can someone please direct me to the “official guidance round caring for small children”. I can find “vulnerable adults”, children in care and where there may be contact orders, but not for the rest of us. Maybe I need to as Dom.

15147 ▶▶▶ FistfulOfDollars, replying to Polemon2, 3, #123 of 764 🔗

I understand your frustration, because they’re not easy to find and they haven’t been clearly explained.

I’ve just checked, and they’ve changed the website since the guidance update recently, but for what it’s worth, when I first checked the guidelines on .gov at the start of the lockdown, it explicity spoke about things like being able to travel to a different household to avoid domestic abuse, and taking children to different households if care is needed.

I realise it’s easy for me to say this, but from one man to another, this is what I read in the guidance when it was first published on the .gov website. It may have changed many times since then; I didn’t check again. Make of that what you will, I guess.

To me, it highlights a more important issue, that the mainstream media, with its inherent reach, should have taken it upon themselves to explain these guidelines clearly to the nation. And they didn’t.

15149 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 4, #124 of 764 🔗

It is even worse than that. It is an entire class of public guardians, paid big salaries to exercise a kind of moral control over the population. We need to take an axe to it.

15362 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 1, #125 of 764 🔗

I was a BBC fan until about 1985. And then they started reversing footage of news reports. Downhill since then.

15455 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 3, #126 of 764 🔗

What was most disturbing about the BBC (I was a supporter prior to this) was how they so quickly turned from impartial arbiters of even-handed journalism to the state’s propaganda arm.

15458 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #127 of 764 🔗

I genuinely don’t understand this attitude. From my perspective “the state’s propaganda arm” is exactly what the BBC has always been. They make no secret of their belief that they are there to indoctrinate people in “responsible” attitudes and behaviour. That was exactly the raison d’etre of things like The Archers, iirc.

I suppose it’s not something you notice unless you are a real dissident and they are actively propagandising against something you have real sympathy for (or for something you are strongly against). Certainly the BBC has been my political enemy for decades.

15473 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, #128 of 764 🔗

Yes indeed though isn’t it true there has been a shift in their values, in what they are propagandising in favour of? They seem to have become more extreme to me.

The idea of impartial journalism seems implausible to me anyway. Much better to have partial journalists who try to argue their case as best they can, cards on the table, and let people make their own minds up.

15807 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #129 of 764 🔗

I’m pretty sure they are no different now to what they’ve always been. If you imagine yourself someone who has opinions that are nowadays strongly politically incorrect but that within living memory were commonplace (any of the taboos – sexist, homophobic, racist), then you might be able to imagine how it felt to be on the receiving end of BBC propaganda 30-50 years ago. It’s just that at the moment it’s turned against opinions you hold, and care about.

Though there was a marked shift a few decades back on news coverage specifically where they collectively decided that impartiality is morally wrong (and, as you say, impossible). But that affected the whole of our journalistic classes, not just the BBC.

My view on that is that perfect impartiality might be impossible to achieve but it’s better to have journalists who at least aspire to it. Especially in a state-funded supposed national broadcaster. I’d rather they at least feel guilty when knowingly lying to us, rather than feeling smug that they are doing their journalistic duty to the Greater Good by doing so.

15643 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mark, #130 of 764 🔗

I guess you are right. I have always accepted they have a pro-establishment slant. The coverage of the recent Royal wedding was sickeningly one-sided for example. However, I had mostly overlooked it which is exactly where their soft power lies (I think). It is exactly because they are viewed as harmless, easy to figure out centrists, they can be trusted to be responsible to a certain degree. Well on this occasion, their “sensible” advice has been far from it.

You live and learn.

15433 ▶▶ ianp, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 6, #131 of 764 🔗

Been saying it all along. If not for the MSM, this thing would be over by now. Absolutely hammer them to dust, and do what you want to every day. I do

15519 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 2, #132 of 764 🔗

I gave up on the BBC quite some time ago, and especially around the time of the Brexit debates. I barely read of listen to any of the MSM, and especially now, as I can’t stand the blatant bias and misreporting.

Most of this confected hysteria around whether or not someone drove with his family from one part of the country to another is nothing more than a smokescreen to engineer his resignation, to weaken the government’s position on Brexit. It’s said that while D.C. and Boris were both ill, that unnamed persons were ready to ask for an extension to the Brexit transition period, and it was D.C. on his return who put a stop to it.
And that’s really what this is all about.
And to reiterate, this is about whether someone can go out for a drive somewhere. Think about that.

15704 ▶▶ The Hare, replying to FistfulOfDollars, 2, #133 of 764 🔗

The media are an easy target, and a lost cause, but lets at least be honest and acknowledge that it was government ministers who dumbed down the message to meaningless slogans, because thats what they wanted. When people did respect the actual guidelines, police chose to overstep the mark, and furthermore their overzealous interpretation of these guidelines was supported by ministers

15108 Tony Rattray, replying to Tony Rattray, 10, #134 of 764 🔗

JOB ADVERT FOR THE RNLI

We are inviting applicants to manage our beach and harbour sites under the current lockdown. Our aim is to save lives at sea. However, for the foreseeable future will be maintaining a 2 metre distance from the public at all times. So, in the event we are called out to potentially save a life, we’ve produced some scenarios for your professional training.

Scenario 1

Male has fallen out of his fishing boat, become adrift and is drowning 0.5 kilometres out to sea. On arrival in rnli rib, etc, maintain a 2 m distance from him and state clearly three times “stay alert” and give instructions for floating like a log (refer to diagram a).

If successful, deploy a lasso rope around his waist (refer to diagram b, noting that it may take several attempts), whilst maintaining a 2 m distance. And finally tow to the shore at a reduced speed.

If unsuccessful (male drowns), state clearly to his next of kin that his probability of drowning at sea was approximately the same as that of a healthy under-65 year old with covid-19 also dying. In other words, as god once said to his disciples, shit happens, but the world goes on….

LATEST MEMORANDUM: TAPE OFF ALL BEACHES NOW.

15379 ▶▶ AngryCashUser, replying to Tony Rattray, #135 of 764 🔗

Frankly, if the RNLI aren’t willing to work during the pandemic (and they have tended to strike me as the brave and heroic type, so it is mroe likely the management at the top interfering with the brave workers on their frontline), then people who manage to get themselves into trouble off-shore can just go without help. That was how it was in the days before mobile phones. People have the right to choose for themselves if they still want to go to the beach when the RNLI aren’t there to save them in the event that something should happen.

15542 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to AngryCashUser, 1, #136 of 764 🔗

RNLI went downhill after employing a full-time professional management team who are PC and HSE obsessed about 5 years ago. I stopped donating after members of a lifeboat crew were “scared” for transporting someone they saved to hospital in a land rover as the ambulance couldn’t get there for an hour or more. Idiot professional managers

have forgotten it is a volunteer organisations.

15759 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, #137 of 764 🔗

I live in a seaside town with a lifeboat and I just can’t believe that the crew could be such utter wimps, And yet…

15762 ▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #138 of 764 🔗

The same tossers sacked members of the Whitby crew for having mugs with a naked women printed on them. Will never donate to them again.

15114 mantrid, replying to mantrid, 4, #139 of 764 🔗

“German Government offers Lufthansa $10 billion bailout” – why doesn’t it merely issue new stocks? citizens could buy new series financing the company back to business. Governments inflate all sorts of bubbles to prop up economy and give the middle class chance to build wealth but when real opportunity appears they destroy it with bailouts.

“The Pandemic Is Exposing the Limits of Science” – think Climate Change models and the history of absurd predications

15187 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to mantrid, #140 of 764 🔗

Lufthansa being controlled by the state. Hasn’t that happened at a point in time before?

15115 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 11, #141 of 764 🔗

More good news!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/24/how-did-the-covidsafe-app-go-from-being-vital-to-almost-irrelevant

Australia’s tracking app is proving itself a giant nothingburger! 🙂

15381 ▶▶ AngryCashUser, replying to Farinances, 2, #142 of 764 🔗

Interestingly enough Australia, despite their record of data abuses, backdooring and crimes against cryptographic secrets, has actually put some good laws in place around that app. They have expressly forbidden anyone to demand someone installs the app as a condition of entry/employment/purchase/sale/travel… For a country where one of their states legalised putting CCTV cameras in the homes of people with positive antigen tests it is remarkable to see they have done one thing right. I don’t feel confident that Britain will put laws around the app to ensure it is not made mandatory and not used as a way to discriminate against people, looks like the population need to be ready to write up and enforce such laws for themselves.

15116 TJN, replying to TJN, 2, #143 of 764 🔗

‘… South Korea’s track-and-trace programme has been effective’.



Well if you could explain that one Toby I’d be grateful.

15234 ▶▶ Will Jones, replying to TJN, #144 of 764 🔗

So has Japan’s. Oh, wait…

15240 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Will Jones, 2, #145 of 764 🔗

When even lockdown sceptics are saying this we are in trouble …

15118 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 102, #146 of 764 🔗

Sadly today has been the hardest day for me, mentally, since the start of lockdown. It’s been like a punch in the guts as far as wellbeing and hope goes.

Every time I hear the phrase “social distancing” or “the new normal”, I want to punch the person who says it. Michael Gove is very much on my list of people I want to punch.

The damage this will do to the retail, hospitality, leisure, travel and tourism sectors is…I don’t even want to think about it.

It is completely unworkable, unsustainable and most importantly…pointless! Take all the joy and purpose out of life and no wonder we are experiencing an international mental health crisis and vast number of suicides. And for what gain? What evidence is there that any of this provides any benefit or saves any lives?

I absolutely refuse any of the following:
– Masks and gloves
– Social distancing
– Any NHS or track and trace app
– Any form of self isolating or quarantine post travel
– Any rushed out vaccine, that we clearly won’t ever need

I don’t care if I get a fine or prosecuted. Sometimes you have to do what you know is right, even if our fascist oppressors continue with their illegal dictatorial regimes.

F**k the lockdown. F**k social distancing. F**k the new normal.

15122 ▶▶ IanE, replying to RDawg, 24, #147 of 764 🔗

Yes, I am beginning to understand how decent Germans (there must have been some, right?) felt as Hitler clawed his way to power: the knowledge that terrible things were happening in your society, but, because the mass of sheeple weren’t seeing it, you could do nothing.

15230 ▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to IanE, 19, #148 of 764 🔗

Of course there were decent Germans. Aren’t there any decent Brits at this point? Of course there are. There are decent people everywhere… but believe it or not most people have been led to believe that totalitarianism only ever comes in the form of a short guy with bad breath and a mustache.. “Our British government involved in dismantling democracy? Never. We are the victors and liberators of the world after all! We can do no wrong. Totalitarianism is only for genetically tuned Germanic people. And the Chinese. We Brits, we would see totalitarianism under the disguise of a new normal coming a mile off…!”

15238 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Pebbles, 13, #149 of 764 🔗

“Britons never never never shall be slaves” and “Scotland the Brave” definitely both need rewriting. For that matter all the stuff about freedom in Men of Harlech is pretty embarrassing now..

15388 ▶▶▶▶▶ AngryCashUser, replying to Mark, 3, #150 of 764 🔗

Cower, Britannia! We cower from second waves!

Britons surrendered all their rights as locked down slaves.

When Britain first, at the medias command,

Lost our collective brains,

This was the ruin of our land,

Before a mild-ish flu-like strain:

Cower, Britannia! We cower from second waves!

Britons surrendered all their rights as locked down slaves.

States like Sweden they stay free

They don’t, to lockdowns fall,

Yes, they’ve kept their economy:

With herd immunity for all.

Cower, Britannia! We cower from second waves!

Britons surrendered all their rights as locked down slaves.

Curtain twitching neighbour spies,

Reporting tyrants decrees broke,

With Drone harassment from the skies

If you walk past thy native oak.

Cower, Britannia! We cower from second waves!

Britons surrendered all their rights as locked down slaves.

There are three more verses to do if anyone wishes to

15811 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AngryCashUser, #151 of 764 🔗

That’s pretty good stuff. Now we just need a satirist who can sing. Or a professional singer who’s willing to sing subversive stuff and a wealthy backer to get it recorded.

15320 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to IanE, #152 of 764 🔗

Well, if there’s any consolation to be had – not that I applaud Hitler or anything(!) – his fledging Nazi party started from nothing.

15367 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #153 of 764 🔗

And it didn’t get very far either. Huge, unspeakable damage of course in the twelve years or so. But then it was gone.

15372 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #154 of 764 🔗

A quick war, and the Johnson regime could match that record in just a couple of years…

15438 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 2, #155 of 764 🔗

But the war Hitler started killed 55 million people.

Quite a challenge to little Covvie.

On the other hand, Covvie has killed the soul of the British people in just two months. Quite a reproach to Hitler.

15524 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to IanE, #156 of 764 🔗

I don’t believe Boris is any kind of Hitler, but I do seriously have to ask what he and his government think they’re playing at.
And I’m thinking that little would be different if we had Blair in charge right now….

15125 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to RDawg, 41, #157 of 764 🔗

I’m with you mate. I feel really lonely to be honest. Like I’m in a constant state of sleep paralysis, Surrounded by unquestioning dullards that are too thick or lazy to do even the tiniest bit of research. Even when you present them with irrefutable facts they can’t acknowledge it. Just say you’re a conspiracy nutter etc. I can’t even say Social DIstancing out loud. It makes me feel nauseous. The whole thing is so absurd, why can’t anyone else see it?

15194 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to South Coast Worker, 13, #158 of 764 🔗

I’m calling it antisocial distancing. See the reaction

15283 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to steve, 1, #159 of 764 🔗

Yes, I started calling it that a couple of days back!

15369 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to South Coast Worker, 2, #160 of 764 🔗

Just been on Facebook for the first time in weeks. Am astonished that people are just reciting the Party (MSM) line. No-one seems to be doing any research outside the Party (MSM) box.

15396 ▶▶▶▶ Jubs, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #161 of 764 🔗

I had to take myself away from Facebook because any suggestion that lockdown was going to have consequences for millions was met with the usual assertions that I want to kill people and don’t deserve to ever receive treatment from the NHS (despite my years as a tax payer). I tried going back yesterday but it was full of the same nonsense as a month ago, so I won’t bother again for a very, very long time.

15126 ▶▶ Pebbles, replying to RDawg, 8, #162 of 764 🔗

100% agreed.

15142 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RDawg, 4, #163 of 764 🔗

I dread what management have conjured up for my workplace and I seriously doubt that we will be swamped with people especially with unemployment and bankruptcy figures expected to go up.

I am hoping common sense will prevail but part of me doubts it.

15173 ▶▶ Beefy, replying to RDawg, 6, #164 of 764 🔗

It’s awful but you need to give yourself a break bow and then. We are winning, we just need a but more patience. Their rules are unworkable and so they won’t work.

15291 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Beefy, 1, #165 of 764 🔗

Well, possibly a bit extreme, but they are going in a very wrong direction.

One consolation is that none of them seem up to the job – just look at the defences of Cummings – amateur hour. As I said yesterday, make Rufus T. Firefly look like a statesman.

15193 ▶▶ steve, replying to RDawg, 7, #166 of 764 🔗

I sadly agreeing with you. This is a very depressing time.

Not sure if you have seen V for Vedetta. The whole film is based on a mystery virus that was found and the whole country after being “terrified” by the endless media scare stories allowed a totalitarian government to take over.

It’s basically now a documentary. Very depressing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=chqi8m4CEEY

The famous speech says it all

15527 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to steve, #167 of 764 🔗

And it was a Conservative government, if I recall correctly, which I said at the time was ridiculous.
Boris seems to be following the Democrats playbook rather than the Republican one. He’s certainly no Trump, that’s for sure.

15206 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to RDawg, 5, #168 of 764 🔗

100% with you on this – it is like banging your head against a brick wall – and every day is the same.

Only thing different this morning was I emailed my MP about Cummings. He replied with a copy of the statement he was sending to our local paper, asking Cummings to resign. He is one of the 40 MP’s on the list. I didn’t think he had the bottle to do this, but he did.

15317 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to RDawg, 2, #169 of 764 🔗

I feel the same. There are so many of us in the same boat. It was hard starting work this morning. I live alone and much prefer to work in the office. Where this will all end up who knows?

15327 ▶▶ JVS, replying to RDawg, 4, #170 of 764 🔗

That sounds like where I was over the weekend. Especially after my sons, both early 20s, voiced their worries about their future; felt so helpless and angry.

I usually stay quiet about things but decided to blog about how I really feel about this farce, felt better. Then I read about Gove’s ‘new normal’ and the air turned blue!

I am totally with you on not doing any of those joyless, soul-destroying idiotic things!

15522 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to RDawg, 2, #171 of 764 🔗

Me too. I lost it at one store, as described elsewhere, after being told that I had to take a trolley in when i didn’t want or need one. I’m sick to death of all this queuing, tape and perspex screens everywhere, the occasional hostility from people, and the general air of suspicion.
This isn’t fun. There’s no feeling of “we’re all in it together” unless they’re referring to being in a gulag or open prison together….

15574 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to Lms23, 2, #172 of 764 🔗

I am with you. Yesterday was a very bad day for me too. I went to the bank in my local town for the first time in 6 weeks. Only because I have an old school music teacher who only takes cash and I needed to change notes. We have struggled on with remote lessons so far.

Then it wasn’t too bad. But yesterday there were massive queues and plenty of idiots in masks. Even one sanitising her rubber gloves FFS. And after eventually getting inside and waiting 15 minutes getting nowhere I asked if they could change my notes, to be told they don’t do that any more as it’s not an essential service. Another blow for the small business. I very nearly lost it. Really struggling to cope with this situation, like many others here. Who do Johnson and co think they are?. What have they done? Monsters the lot of them

15750 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cbird, 1, #173 of 764 🔗

Name and shame that useless bank !

15754 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to JohnB, 1, #174 of 764 🔗

HSBC

15761 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cbird, 1, #175 of 764 🔗

Ta Cbird. Was thinking about opening an account with them too.

15757 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Cbird, #176 of 764 🔗

Perhaps try a local post office, they might be able to help change notes. I find them more helpful than the bank.

15760 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lms23, #177 of 764 🔗

And in the gulag, everybody was prepared to do everybody else down so as to grab their spoonful of porridge.

15764 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #178 of 764 🔗

I’ve just re-read Ivan Denisovich after many years. Basically, they survived as a team, with a kapo to run things. Inter-team rivalry for s ure, but not individualism as such.

15134 Farinances, 35, #179 of 764 🔗

Ooh, also I spoke to another of my bezzies today who has a little girl. She is chomping at the bit to get her back to school, and “really hopes only a fraction of the parents send their kids back, so Holly can get the benefit of tiny class sizes”. !!

I asked her if she’s worried about Holly getting psychologically scarred by all the OCD and she said, “Not when I know when she comes home she’ll be having me, her dad and the dog slobbering all over her…. and when she’ll be going to stay with her grans and grandads every other weekend regardless of the rules. There’s no way those teachers will be able to keep those rules in practice anyway, at least not for long.”

Thumbs up.

15139 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 8, #180 of 764 🔗

I dislike inappropriate analogies, but the recent behaviour of the twitter mob, the bishops and the broadcast media, is as close as you will get to Brownshirts without physical violence, and that is not far behind.

They have set themselves up as public guardians, which is of course what the Roman symbol represented.

The fact is, if you disssent publicly, you are at risk of losing your job, arbitrary arrest, and arbitrary prosecution (by the CPS, who are judges of “public interest” in prosecution).

We seem to have lost entirely the spirit of tolerant sceptical enquiry: the idea that you can politely disagree and challenge the public “wisdom”. The media interviews of Cummings yesterday were not journalism. They were the Brownshirts hunting a dissenter.

15315 ▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 2, #181 of 764 🔗

Yes, though sadly he dissented on one important issue (Brexit) but failed to dissent on an issue that is infinitely more important (reaction to covid-19).

15529 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to WhyNow, #182 of 764 🔗

I thought the MSM were more like prosecutors interrogating a hostile witness who they’d already decided was guilty.
But I’m happy with your analogy as well.

15140 Mark, replying to Mark, 1, #183 of 764 🔗

Someone here a week or two ago suggested putting underpants on your head if you are forced to comply with facemask-wearing rules. It seems a woman did exactly this in Ukraine, and it was caught on film, hilariously:

Woman strips off and puts her knickers over her face after Ukrainian shop worker refused to serve her without a mask on

(She doesn’t actually “strip off”, in case you’re worried it might be nsfw, that’s just Mail click-bait.)

15143 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 4, #184 of 764 🔗

And while I’m browsing the Mail’s underbelly for coronapanic stories, here’s the other one I found:

I know the Mail does like to use any pretext available to get sex and scantily clad females onto its site (that nurse in lingerie story from Russia is still lingering on the international front page a week later), but I must admit I found this one funny:

Sex workers offer to limit customers to two positions which ‘minimise the risk of transmitting coronavirus’ to enable brothels to end lockdown in Switzerland

It comes as Switzerland’s adult industry has been heavily hit by the pandemic, after the government placed a temporary ban on prostitution two months ago to help stop the spread of the virus.

The plan to reopen the industry, prepared by the organisation ProKoRe, suggests that sex positions which allow for a safe distance between faces, such as ‘doggy style’ and ‘reverse cowgirl’, are advisable . “

15150 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 1, #185 of 764 🔗

The other interesting story I saw about Switzerland is that their watch exports were down 81.3% in April. If your story’s participants had the inclination, mine would not have had the time!

15155 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mark, 2, #186 of 764 🔗

The end-state is a glory-hole economy.

15172 ▶▶▶ A13, replying to Mark, 1, #187 of 764 🔗

I can see Hancock’s fingerprints all over this advice – they must have consulted our expert.

15262 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #189 of 764 🔗

The company said they do not condemn the customer’s actions and are not going to report her to the police.

Now there’s hope!

15145 TJS7, replying to TJS7, 22, #190 of 764 🔗

Watching channel 4 news – they are chasing Cummings like a rabid dog.

Imagine if they put this much effort into investigating the dodgy science behind the lockdown.

15161 ▶▶ IanE, replying to TJS7, 1, #191 of 764 🔗

I’m not sure if you are suggesting that Cummings is like a rabid dog or the channel 4 news people! Both, perhaps?

15182 ▶▶▶ TJS7, replying to IanE, 1, #192 of 764 🔗

Not a fan of either now I hear of DC’s role in orchestrating lockdown…

15148 Mark, replying to Mark, 8, #193 of 764 🔗

“James Delingpole and I debate Cummings-gate in the latest episode of our weekly podcast. We both agree: he shouldn’t resign because he drove to Durham with his wife and son, but his decision to support the lockdown is unforgivable.”

That’s a conclusion I can definitely get behind, provided the corollary to an unforgivable decision is that he should go, now..

15153 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 5, #194 of 764 🔗

He did a bit more than just support it though – he was one of the key architects, with Ferguson. No mercy!

15156 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, #195 of 764 🔗

He should however have to resign for potentially taking covid back to No 10 after going home to see his wife and for driving in a potentially unsafe condition when he went to Barnard Castle – what if he had then hit a pedestrian crossing the road?

15183 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to IanE, 3, #196 of 764 🔗

The crazy justification for banning car journeys was what if you break down? Well, knowing Land Rover’s reliability record Cummings should have at least taken the Corolla.

15151 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #197 of 764 🔗

GOOD:

Went shopping at the big Morrison’s today in my area – there were no queues to get in, no one way system and everyone was ignoring those circles in the queue to use the tills. Sure there were some masked zombies but one can’t have everything.

BAD:

Received an email from Blenheim Palace announcing their reopening this weekend however the first week will be restricted to one year pass holders and members. Visitors will have to pre-book beforehand. Now what are the odds that this will descend into farce and chaos?

15186 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #198 of 764 🔗

Daughter had the same thing with Bolton Abbey in North Yorkshire – forget it was her response.

15191 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #199 of 764 🔗

The Morrisons in my city doesn’t have a way system. Am I right in saying that no branch of Morrisons has a one way system.

15205 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to ianric, 8, #200 of 764 🔗

Indeed… I’m hearing that Morrisons is eneavouring to get back to as normal as possible while Sainsbury’s is still a jambouree of loud-hailing Karens.

15225 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AidanR, 3, #201 of 764 🔗

Morrisons never had a one way system from day one, they did have a system of queuing to get to the tills but I’ve not seen it for the last 3 weeks. Staff don’t wear masks and gloves, if you see one chances are they’re new.

I think AidanR is right. The M&S in my area has a one way system but everyone including the staff ignore it. Plus their staff like the one in Morrisons are pretty chilled.

15233 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #202 of 764 🔗

The Sainsbury’s in my area is pretty chilled as well. OK you might have to queue outside as its a Local but once inside, again no one way system and the staff are carrying on as normal as well with none of them wearing masks and gloves.

15281 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #203 of 764 🔗

Daughter tells me Morrisons allowed her and her boyfriend in together. Strictly one at a time where I am in Sainsbury’s, Tesco and M&S.

On a brighter note, had some builders round today to fix heating and various other jobs, no PPE, no distancing, just behaved normally.

15549 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bart Simpson, #204 of 764 🔗

Morrison Board not that linked to the “globalists” for want of a better word.

Tesco’s 2 main bods both have links to Bill gates via Imperial College and the UN Agenda 2030 new green deal with the others linked to pharmaceuticals and international private banking, Sainsbury’s family foundation is linked to Bill Gates through belief in vaccines (was reading about it a few weeks ago, will try and find the link again) and ASDA are part of Walmart which are implicated in being willing participants in false-flag shootings and having empty stores prepared as FEMA camps in the USA last year.

Morrison seems to be the only big supermarket chain without obvious links to the scam.

15246 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to AidanR, 1, #205 of 764 🔗

My sainsburys doesnt have a one way system, no Karens either.

15154 Al Churchill, replying to Al Churchill, 33, #206 of 764 🔗

What is this nonsense about not being able to touch things in shops. Does the government I’m honestly believe customers haven’t been picking things up and putting them down in supermarkets around the country since March? The idiocy of this government gets worse by the day. Why can’t we just see what other countries are doing and follow suit. Although our lockdown wasn’t as strict as Italy, France, Spain, our exit strategy is so painful

15163 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Al Churchill, 13, #207 of 764 🔗

It is beyond crazy. Ditto the idea that clothes shops can open but you can’t try the clothes on!

15178 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to IanE, 20, #208 of 764 🔗

Crackers!
Government: We’ve allowed shops to open but you mustn’t try clothes on. Don’t forget you must still stay home as much as possible.
Me: But if what I’ve bought doesn’t fit because I haven’t tried it on, I have to make another journey back to the shop to return it.
Government: Yes.
Me: But that’s an unnecessary journey that I wouldn’t have had to make if I’d just tried the clothing on to begin with in the store
Government: Yes. Oh and try not to do unnecessary journeys. Stay home as much as possible. Or go out. Or don’t shop. We’ve opened the shops but we don’t expect people to actually shop in them!
Me: Arrgghhhh! .

15179 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #209 of 764 🔗

This is what I would like to believe will be the ultimate undoing of these awful rules and regulations – how inconsistent they are to anyone with a brain cell and how inconvenient and onerous they will make life.

15397 ▶▶▶▶ Jubs, replying to CarrieAH, #210 of 764 🔗

Make sure you don’t buy anything unsuitable or defective in Asda because they won’t let you return ANYTHING!

15212 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to IanE, 13, #211 of 764 🔗

just pick up a pair of trousers, rub them all over your body and walk out the shop without paying. No one is gonna stop you and if they get too close trying call the cops and get them to arrest them for breaking social distancing

15287 ▶▶▶ JME, replying to IanE, #212 of 764 🔗

As my wife has just said, after I read her this thread, we’ve been buying clothes online during lockdown, trying them on & sending them back if wrong size etc.

15167 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Al Churchill, 3, #213 of 764 🔗

At this rate, our exit strategy is beginning to read like Dante’s Divine Comedy where we’re still at the Inferno stage

15218 ▶▶ annie, replying to Al Churchill, 7, #214 of 764 🔗

I read somewhere that in Germany a shop was selling face masks and people were picking them up, trying them on, then throwing them back and trying another one.

15266 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Al Churchill, 4, #215 of 764 🔗

Surely the handling things issue could be covered by providing hand gel at the entrance?

The government seems to be going out of its way to make this as ridiculous as possible. They’re just playing with us. The nationwide roar of ENOUGH! can’t come soon enough.

15398 ▶▶▶ Jubs, replying to Cheezilla, #216 of 764 🔗

When the cameras aren’t on surely some of them must be laughing at how compliant the sheeple are in going along with whatever ridiculous, unworkable nonsense they come up with.

15434 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Al Churchill, 2, #217 of 764 🔗

I think I might start touching everything I see in supermarkets as well if I see any mask morons in there. That will shit them right up

15165 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #218 of 764 🔗

https://medium.com/@d_spiegel/is-sars-cov-2-viral-load-lower-in-young-children-than-adults-8b4116d28353“We suggest the pre-print should be withdrawn from the website, and the inappropriate analysis acknowledged. Is SARS-CoV-2 viral load lower in young children than adults? Jones et al provide evidence that it is (in spite of their claims to the contrary).”Kevin McConway (The Open University) and David Spiegelhalter (University of Cambridge)

This is a complicated paper but still very important. In the Jones article one of the main authors Christian Dorsten is one of the leading men of the Covid-19 response in Germany at Robert Koch Institute. Merkel has been relying on him for the Covid-19 response especially his advice to close schools. The irony in it is, that the article he co-wrote above, really showed that children had less viral dose but by doing some complicated groupings, the conclusion of the original article was changed to suggest a risk of spreading from children hence the advice to the German government.

There is a strong reaction in Germany against the whole handling of the Covid-19 response from the Robert Koch Institute and especially Dorsten. They even produced graphs which clearly showed that the lockdown was instituted in Germany when the R was already below 1 and totally unjustified. The anti lock down moment seems to be much stronger in Germany and the scientific community much more divided than in the UK.

Unfortunately this paper and Dorsten’s school closure recommendation spread like a virus to other countries and might even have reached the UK.

15241 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to swedenborg, 2, #219 of 764 🔗

It was clear that as soon as there was discussion in other countries about school closures, teaching unions and some teachers, supported by metropolitan climate change Nazi-type mums (and some dads) conspired to have that imposed here. They were just waiting for the signal provided by Ferguson’s model. My younger son said in his house at school other kids (teenage lads larking around) were coughing loudly at registration hoping to prompt the teacher to tell them to go home to self isolate. At that stage, there was already a significant minority of staff at home self isolating. I might add this is not a state school, and in an area that even now has had so few cases and deaths that none of my circle of contacts knows anyone who has even tested positive for the virus.

15168 steve, replying to steve, 38, #220 of 764 🔗

This is beyond parody now. Have I died and woken up in some insane dystopian novel.
Who is advising the government? are they simply taking the piss now or do they simply have an IQ below their shoe size.

160000 people die in the UK every year from cancer.
200000 people die in the UK from heart attack every year

Let’s ask give to stop people touching fried food and pizza.
Let’s just ban smoking.

But no they are running amok talking utter bollocks on a daily basis about A flu virus
And the media generally doing zero reporting, just asking stupid questions about whether DC broke “the rules” or not

How about actually questioning whether the rules are utter nonsense in the first place.

Very very annoyed now

15170 ▶▶ Mark, replying to steve, 23, #221 of 764 🔗

“Have I died and woken up in some insane dystopian novel.”

Yes.

15560 ▶▶▶ Invunche, replying to Mark, 1, #222 of 764 🔗

It doesn’t get more dystopian than being a minor piece in Dim Dom Cummings 4-D chess game.

Pretty clear now that this is all his doing.
He is the PM.
Lockdown is his idea.

For awhile I thought that Ferguson was a useful idiot and his model was just a way to lock us down for _whatever_ reason.

But now I think he’s a genuine idiot and believes all of this is justified and that he actually fell for Fergusons model. What a twit.

15185 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to steve, 10, #223 of 764 🔗

My family quizzed me why I won’t take a vaccine, I said even by the official CDC numbers 97.74% of people will survive it, Why on earth do I NEED to take a vaccine? They said they will do what the doctors tell them.

15198 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to South Coast Worker, 10, #224 of 764 🔗

But which doctors? (OR should that be witch-doctors?)

15203 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to South Coast Worker, 17, #225 of 764 🔗

I’m reminded of something my dear old Mum used to say:

“Some people would wipe their arse with a broken bottle if a doctor told them to.”

15530 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Gracie Knoll, 1, #226 of 764 🔗

Indeed Gracie. The advice I got from doctors regarding my arthritis and heart disease has been 100% wrong. I take no medication and have never felt better in my life.

15280 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to South Coast Worker, 6, #227 of 764 🔗

its even better CDC report 99.74 % survival.!

15399 ▶▶▶ Jubs, replying to South Coast Worker, 3, #228 of 764 🔗

Isn’t it strange how actually contracting the virus will not give you immunity (at least not beyond a few months), yet a vaccine which will give you a low dose of the exact same virus WILL give you immunity. How does that work, then?

15208 ▶▶ Biker, replying to steve, 10, #229 of 764 🔗

don’t ban smoking i couldn’t stand it. They’re already trying to take away petrol for my motorcycle and if smoking goes too all i’m left with is tea and since that comes from China we’re gonna run out of that. Life won’t be worth living

15387 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Biker, 1, #230 of 764 🔗

Just don’t do the smoking and petrol at the same time!

15211 ▶▶ James007, replying to steve, 6, #231 of 764 🔗

Absolutely Stefan. This is the most stupid policy programme ever. People will die too.

Just from your two examples – cancer treatments have been postponed for this. Imagine the fear and uncertainty that has caused. I know personally someone who had an urgent cardiology appointment cancelled. A few weeks later, rushed to A&E with a serious heart problem. They could have died.

I sometimes think they don’t really believe in the efficacy of what they are doing. This is all for looking like a strong Churchillian government.

15355 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to James007, 2, #232 of 764 🔗

This site and a few others are doing a great job to highlight the madness Of this charade but most people Just see the bbc and the daily mail click bait. Clueless sheep. Very depressing.

15333 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to steve, 1, #233 of 764 🔗

I agree, and I think Toby and other sceptics missed a trick not wrestling hold of that narrative, and spinning it back the other way in their desire to protect him (I’ve just watched Jonathan Pie, I appreciate he’s annoying but he’s absolutely bang on on Cummings).

15709 ▶▶ ianp, replying to steve, #234 of 764 🔗

Only ‘annoyed’…? 🤣

15192 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 4, #235 of 764 🔗

Slighly saddened by a what a small minority I’m in over at the Torygiraffe…

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/26/campaign-remove-architect-brexit-telegraph-readers-whether/

15196 ▶▶ IanE, replying to AidanR, 2, #236 of 764 🔗

I find it very surprising how wound up the posters get over Cummings both on the DT and Guido Fawkes’ web-site (and even over on the usually more sane Conservativewoman site). I sometimes wonder if Cummings has an army of paid posters!

15210 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to IanE, 1, #237 of 764 🔗

He’s one of those “totem” characters that political zealots absolutely love and will defend to the death, even when, as with Cummings and the lockdown and quarantine decisions, he’s been exposed as acting in direct contravention of their interests. As iirc Tyneside Tigress or Bec pointed out here, it’s like Clinton-worshippers who are supposedly feminists but still won’t hear a word said against their hero.

15235 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #238 of 764 🔗

I don’t know much about him, but what I did know made me think he was a force for good, on balance. But what he has participated in, along with the rest of them, is unforgivable. None of them are fit to be in public office, ever again.

15248 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 3, #239 of 764 🔗

Exactly, and it should make one doubt the honesty and integrity of anyone who claims to be anti-lockdown but wants to let off in the slightest degree any of the main perpetrators for personal or political reasons. They are all Guilty Men (including the women), and given the severity of what they’ve inflicted on the country, and the danger of a repeat, we should be thinking about trying to hound every last one of the out of politics forever, and making their fate a terrifying warning to the next politician to contemplate imposing a lockdown because he’s worried about getting blamed for not acting.

Granted it doesn’t look very achievable atm but things can change quickly, and you have to start somewhere.

15279 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #240 of 764 🔗

There is the “lesser of two evils” argument, to which I have subscribed in the past. When this madness ends, if it ever does, would you rather have Johnson or Starmer or whoever?

Peter Hitchens has been clear that he won’t vote on that basis. I don’t know exactly what it achieves but it’s hard to imagine myself voting for any of the current parliamentary parties until swathes of them are expunged – so probably not in my lifetime.

15345 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #241 of 764 🔗

Peter Hitchens has been clear that he won’t vote on that basis .”

“The lesser of two evils is still evil” is the argument. it makes sense in a way. But sometimes it’s hard to justify not supporting one side to keep another out.

I’d definitely see both Johnson and Starmer as unacceptable. If that’s the choice we really are stuffed. But I’m pretty confident Johnson won’t be fighting another election as party leader.

15407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Mark, 2, #242 of 764 🔗

No. As I keep saying he is on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

He called the virus a plague yesterday after Chris Whitty had whispered the opposite the other week.

I have been having lots of fun on Twitter posting my own images.

It’s clear that certain ones, which you know will get lots of likes don’t get any.

It must be the 77th Brigade in action.

Take courage the tide is turning and anyone who wants to join us on Glasgow Green at 12.00 pm on Saturday will be most welcome.

Let’s make a stand. It’s in our hands

15236 ▶▶▶ Marion, replying to IanE, 4, #243 of 764 🔗

The below the line commentators over at the Spectator are all cheerleaders for Cummings – commentators I have agreed with in the past and who I thought were sensible all seem to believe his astonishing excuses (a practice drive to test one’s eye sight? Of course, who hasn’t done that…?). Douglas Murray defending him, too. All chums together, I think, very disheartening.

15412 ▶▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Marion, #244 of 764 🔗

I said this the other day. We shut down sceptics are not all in this together.

And yes it is disheartening but the war goes on.

15302 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IanE, #245 of 764 🔗

I’m pretty sure he has a bot. A script, probably called “autopleb.py”, written by one of his “geniuses”. Yesterday the Mail comments were filled with posts by different sock puppets, appearing every few seconds, saying very generic things in DC’s favour. Nothing specific to the actual article or to any of the other posts. They were receiving plenty of dislikes by the carbon based readers.

15304 ▶▶▶ R G, replying to IanE, #246 of 764 🔗

It makes perfect sense when you look at it through the prism of the Brexit wars. The line of thinking is that if Cummings goes, then there’s a good chance that Brexit will be delayed, diluted or even cancelled if Starmer gets in. I’m not unsympathetic to that view, but for me his hypocrisy as an advocate and architect of lockdown makes his position untenable and I wouldn’t be sorry to see him go.

15202 ▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, 2, #247 of 764 🔗

Pretty biased population at the Telegraph I suspect. At least you can be pretty sure some of the “storm in a teacup” voters are people who actually oppose the lockdown but are helping its perpetrators out on this occasion just to protect “their guy”.

15220 ▶▶ A13, replying to AidanR, 5, #248 of 764 🔗

What a f***ing loser!

Dominic Cummings’s coronavirus ‘prediction’ claim undermined after it emerges blog post was secretly edited

Cummings said he wrote about coronavirus threat last year, but online clues suggest the reference was added to his blog on April 14 2020

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/26/dominic-cummingss-coronavirus-prediction-claim-undermined-emerges/

15228 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to A13, 4, #249 of 764 🔗

Excellent!.Anything that helps get rid of one of the Guilty Men is fine by me.

15309 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 2, #250 of 764 🔗

Yes, and I would give you extra up votes if I could for calling it right even if until now you might have been naturally on DC’s “side” on other issues. It’s easier for me because I always thought he was disastrous. Yes he’s smart and competent but dangerously radical and arrogant.

15330 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 1, #251 of 764 🔗

I tend to be pretty tolerant mostly (for a grumpy, reactionary old misanthrope) but I can be quite binary on specific issues. On a key issue for me, if a politician crosses the line that’s the end for them as far as any support or sympathy from me is concerned. In the past it’s usually been waging a war of choice, but this lockdown has definitely done it for me this time.

15222 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to AidanR, 1, #252 of 764 🔗

Yes, agree. I posted here yesterday that I was shocked by some of the comments under Camilla Tominey’s article – deeply personal and insulting because she has been calling for Cummings to go. She is a Brexiter, and a working mum with 3 primary school children, only one of whom is in the first group to return on June 1 – she wants them all to go back now (in effect calling time on the lockdown)

15523 ▶▶ ianp, replying to AidanR, #253 of 764 🔗

Hmmm, it’s a bit of a loaded questionnaire in terms of answers in my opinion…. The 77% does not necessarily indicate direct support for lockdown. It indicates a stronger disdain for the media reaction to what Cummings did

15662 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to AidanR, 1, #254 of 764 🔗

I’ve now spent a bit of time in the comments over at the telegraph. Clearly commenters there have chosen their sides, and that is that. Anyone who thinks Cummings should go over all of this must be a rampant leftist who should sod off back to the Guardian where they belong.

Free thinking and rational enquiry are not on the agenda over there just now. They just want to protect the guy that the left are baying for.

15816 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, #255 of 764 🔗

Just another reason why he needs to be gone and the sooner the better. He’s dividing conservative opinion and pushing people who oppose the lockdown into the government camp on this issue.

15199 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 4, #256 of 764 🔗

Does anyone know of any research going on as to whether this could actually be the second wave that is passing through now? I know they are finding evidence of possible Covid in some countries even before Christmas and people have been posting about illness after the military games in Wuhan in October. I thought I had read where someone had suggested this could be the second wave that we are currently going through, but can’t find anything related to this. Thanks.

15216 ▶▶ James007, replying to Margaret, 2, #257 of 764 🔗

Yes I’ve heard that too. I’ve heard anecdotes about a 1st wave in the UK before, people with flu-like symptoms, some in the tourism and travel industry. Not seen any hard evidence though, so possibility.

15217 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to James007, 1, #258 of 764 🔗

Meant to say January and Christmas. Flu-like illnesses, around tourist hotspots.

15288 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Margaret, #259 of 764 🔗

I’ve heard this idea but why would there be a second wave? I think the first wave certainly started sooner than it did “officially” and also that the secondary epidemic in the care homes was a bit later.

15400 ▶▶▶ Jubs, replying to guy153, 1, #260 of 764 🔗

No country that’s opened up has had a second wave. They just like to say that to keep everyone in fear and to justify whatever other restrictions they have in the pipeline.

15200 Biker, replying to Biker, 6, #261 of 764 🔗

Seems to me we’re gonna be under siege till we can have another election where i hope Farage or someone stands as a freedom party promising we can go back to normal and the public can boot out these lunatics who seem to think my life is theirs to do with as they see fit.

15221 ▶▶ James007, replying to Biker, 3, #262 of 764 🔗

Is he a lockdown sceptic? It’s support a freedom/reform party. And There are lots of ex-torys shopping for a new party now.

15231 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to James007, 1, #263 of 764 🔗

Last I heard on this forum, he was a lockdown enthusiast (even while breaking it to follow his own political stories).

15264 ▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Mark, #264 of 764 🔗

He’s spoken out against the lockdown from day one.

15296 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark H, #265 of 764 🔗

I’m open to the idea. I’ve only picked up hearsay on here about his position. Though if he’s come out against it I haven’t seen any sign of it in the MSM (only saw the report about plod visiting him after a trip to Dover).

15270 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 1, #266 of 764 🔗

He’s a tosser in any case.

15254 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to James007, #267 of 764 🔗

Count me in il.never vote Tory again!

15284 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to James007, #268 of 764 🔗

Historically the Tory party is usually the fastest to sort itself out. But we’ll see. Labour is recovering from Corbyn quicker than I had expected.

15303 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to James007, 5, #269 of 764 🔗

I’ve registered Conservative Freedom Party. Blog type site to follow before too long… It will be really conservative, and totally anti-lockdown.

15243 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Biker, #270 of 764 🔗

Yes it might be our only hope the people in charge our truly insane.

15339 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Biker, 3, #271 of 764 🔗

On another local campaign, our on a sticky wicket (politically) MP kept saying to us that whilst he was happy to help us in private, he was unable to do so in public, unless we wrote to him, and he kept saying ‘heavy post bag means I can do something’. It sounds really tedious and ineffective, but the very best thing we can do is keep writing to our MPs, writing open letters to newspapers addressed to our MP and getting people to sign (organisations, businesses, youth groups, churches, whatever), and keep on lobbying. Whatever you think of Cummings, several MPs resigned today ‘due to representations from constituents’ – the pen really is mightier than the sword sometimes, polite, well crafted letters really do make a difference.

15389 ▶▶ AngryCashUser, replying to Biker, 1, #272 of 764 🔗

I’m a remainer, but I would vote for Farage IF he did that.

15552 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Biker, #273 of 764 🔗

A few general elections back there was a campaign called “Not the big 3/4/5” depending on where you lived as it was the tories, labour, libdems plus the local ones – SNP, greens, paid cymru. Spit on all of them.

Idea was to vote for anyone except the main parties in an effort to get a lot of independents into parliament with no party affiliations to shake the place up.

Didn’t really get that much momentum, maybe now is the time to start it again.

15207 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #274 of 764 🔗

I just watched that video featuring that NZ doctor and well done her for delivering her professional opinions in a calm, clear and rational manner. It’s appalling how no-one has looked into this in a wholistic manner and while this lockdown is supposedly about saving lives, in reality this has condemned more people to die from cancer, stroke and a host of other ailments as well as condemning people with chronic conditions and pains to carry on with them without any recourse to relief.

And that’s even before we get to those suffering from mental conditions such as depression, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder who have also been forgotten amidst this situation.

Dr Bailey is also right about the psychological effects of lockdown and social distancing which has led to increase in anxiety and depression. We are already seeing the ill effects of this and I predict it will get worse as we hear of more job losses, the closure of businesses and bankruptcy that could lead to an increase in suicide rates as well as instances of drug and alcohol abuse.

I am getting frustrated that no-one bar us in this blog seems to realise this.

What will it take for people to realise that we are heading towards a disaster far worse than Covid 19?

TIME TO WAKE UP!

15413 ▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #275 of 764 🔗

There is lots of dissent on Twitter.

15447 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A HUG IS HEALTH, #276 of 764 🔗

Yes. I’ve seen that and on YouTube too.

15219 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 16, #277 of 764 🔗

One of Thomas Sowell’s many famous quotes: “It’s not that Johnny can’t think. It’s that Johnny doesn’t know what thinking is. He confuses it with feeling.”

That’s the far left for you. That’s also the remain hardliners who still know best. And that’s the lockdown fanatics. How do you reason with them? You can’t. It doesn’t bode well.

15244 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #278 of 764 🔗

Ah, Thomas Sowell. One of my idols. For some reason I am now reminded of another idol of mine, Philip Larkin. This is from an interview with The Observer. By the way, I’m not some right-wing fanatic (at least I don’t think I am). I used to find this amusing even in my Labour-voting period. One could very easily make a case for reversing the right and left divide – I am sure we can all think of so-called right wingers who are idle, greedy and treasonous and left wingers who value thrift, hard work, reverence and desire to preserve. The funny bit is where he points out which are the virtues.

Larkin: I’ve always been right-wing. It’s difficult to say why, but not being a political thinker I suppose I identify the Right with certain virtues and the Left with certain vices . All very unfair, no doubt.

Observer: Which vices and which virtues?

Larkin: Well, thrift, hard work, reverence, desire to preserve – those are the virtues, in case you wondered : and on the other hand idleness, greed and treason.

15258 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Julian, #279 of 764 🔗

Excellent. I hadn’t seen that before.

Yes, Philip Larkin. I remember when High Windows came out. No-one as good as that now, and certainly not the Poet Laureate.

15269 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #280 of 764 🔗

Yes, he’s one of the greats of the 20th century. Google the interviews he did with The Observer and Paris Review. They are hilarious. I wonder what he would make of this all.

15342 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mike Smith, #281 of 764 🔗

I think it’s any fanatics (including militant brexiteers!), and it’s definitely the modern disease, I heard a really good way of describing it ‘catharissism’ – a narcissistic vomiting of feelings dressed up as virtue.

15845 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #282 of 764 🔗

I wish I could find the quote or the clip now, but there was at least one case of someone responding to one of his rational statements with “well, of course you would say that as a privileged white man.”

15848 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to AidanR, 2, #283 of 764 🔗

Ah yes, here it is…a review of one of his books, on the blog of the LSE no less.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lsereviewofbooks/2012/05/26/book-review-intellectuals-and-society-by-thomas-sowell/

Amendment: This review was amended on 22 November 2017. The original post contained the line ‘easy for a rich white man to say’. This has been removed and we apologise for this error.

15886 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to AidanR, #284 of 764 🔗

Fabulous, thank you!

15226 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 16, #285 of 764 🔗

Just listened to the latest London Calling.

On the idea of a placebo vaccine: i’d love it if such a thing were possible, but were the government wily enough to try it they’d have every other country in the world knocking down their door to get some for their own populations, not to mention all the pro-lockdown adult-nappy brigade demanding proof and certified studies and any number of other things to make sure that it is safe to come out from under the stairs once they’ve been dosed up.

Ah, we’re really buggered. Finding it increasingly difficult to see any light at the end of the tunnel, or better yet, a pint at the end of the tunnel. I don’t want to go into a wetherspoons and order a beer from someone behind a plastic fucking screen like i’m a bloody leper. Boring. Boring. The killjoys now rule the world. Wishing i lived during the actual plague as that was probably more fun.

15275 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Edgar Friendly, 3, #286 of 764 🔗

A placebo vaccine would be a blessing at the moment, as long as the next time we get a new virus they pretend to come up with one more or less immediately instead of screwing up life for billions.

15370 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #287 of 764 🔗

I think the other governments would be in on the scam. And legislation would be passed to forbid anyone to publish speculation, test results or analyses of the vaccine because such information could be dangerous and could cost lives.

15375 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #288 of 764 🔗

But that sounds like a conspiracy!!!

15386 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #289 of 764 🔗

Well we’re just having a little fun, speculating. But on the other hand, real conspiracies have happened in the past, I understand. In this situation, are you ruling anything out?

15394 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Edgar Friendly, 3, #290 of 764 🔗

Just check out the video in the next thread. Do you believe it is possible that the media has participated in the spreading of fear using calculated psychological techniques requested by the government? I think it has. Some of the frankly odd stuff I’ve seen in the papers and on the BBC does seem to match what has been found in the SAGE Behavioural Science Department document they’re talking about. If that’s a conspiracy then so be it.

15439 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #291 of 764 🔗

Is it possible?

How can there be any doubt about it?

15610 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #292 of 764 🔗

Yes, absolutely they have. It’s been obvious… the editors have clearly been getting briefings from Gove’s people, and have been changing direction in lockstep on a day by day basis.

15649 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #293 of 764 🔗

Hehe, i should have put a winking smiley face after my comment above, as it was tongue-in-cheek. I’m currently running with theories to explain what has happened that would make even David Icke blush.

There’s no doubt that the media are complicit in beating up the kind of mass hysteria we are witnessing. Probably at the behest of some shady government dept. And they talk about fake news…

15605 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Edgar Friendly, 3, #294 of 764 🔗

The really frustrating thing is I’ve been kicking against the killjoys’ inch by inch landgrabs for over 20 years, and in the last 2 months they’ve taken the whole of the board, in the face of no meaningful resistance at all.

15817 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, #295 of 764 🔗

Well put!

15232 Mike Smith, 6, #296 of 764 🔗

For anyone who hasn’t heard about it, Professor Adrian Hill, who is leading the Oxford University team that is trying to create a vaccine against the Covid virus, has said that the virus is disappearing.

This video is of two journalists discussing various issues relating to the lockdown and the media’s behaviour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-nu8j5_OiE ( 5:27-6:08).

15247 Tim, replying to Tim, 15, #297 of 764 🔗

There is an interesting article in today’s Times showing a design for the interior of a social-distancing-compliant passenger train. The main features are:

– About half as much seating as normal

– Perspex screens between bays

– One-way system (entry-only doors and exit-only doors)

– Gesture-operated doors

It is also suggested that:

– There will be no standing

– All seats must be reserved

– No sitting next to strangers

It is not clear from the article whether this arrangement would be a temporary measure or whether it is anticipated to be the New Normal from now on and forever.

A couple of thoughts:

If this is a temporary measure then it must be for a significant period, otherwise the expenditure could not be justified.

If this is to be the new normal then it has serious consequences.

Fares will skyrocket. For a well patronised service like Leeds-London, assuming traffic returns to its previous level, they would need to run twice as many trains, or have trains that are twice as long. Neither of these are possible, so the railway companies will have to suppress demand by price. Assuming they run the same service with half as many seats then the standard return fare will need to rise above £500 for a business trip from Leeds to London. On heavily overcrowded routes like Cross Country it will be even worse.

Casual travel will be obliterated. Many of us travel for a day out without knowing exactly what time we will return. We will go back to using the car.

… and no doubt the repetitive announcements will be extended to include reminders about social distancing rules.

If this is to be the New Normal then I fear that our railways will no longer be a public service. Instead they will be a heavily-subsidised facility for the few that can afford the New Normal Prices.

15255 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tim, 4, #298 of 764 🔗

Not only that but it will be the death of days trips and the likes of the National Trust and English Heritage because the only people who will be able to come are those with cars.

15260 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Tim, 1, #299 of 764 🔗

Would they make it illegal to hitch-hike?

15276 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tim, 2, #300 of 764 🔗

Last time I used a train, (a 4-hour journey on Cross Country) they kept apologising for the overcrowding. Doesn’t bode well!

15298 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tim, 1, #301 of 764 🔗

I am fearful that social distancing is here to stay, so I can well believe this.

15310 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Tim, 4, #302 of 764 🔗

Just hell. I can’t drive and I am in a long distance relationship so I relied heavily on trains to get around and see my loved ones before this. It makes my heart sink like a stone and I feel as if my wings have been clipped and independence massively curtailed.

15335 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Tim, 9, #303 of 764 🔗

It seems to me that the purpose of the lockdown is to create a horrific dystopia where things are taken away from us. Train travel is one example of this. If fewer people can travel on trains due to lack of space and prices, this will have major consequences. What about people who don’t have access to a car and the railways are the only way they can travel. What happens if someone needs a train to get to work but can no longer afford fares. If fewer people are able to travel by train, would this devastate our tourist industry as people can’t get to destinations. If fewer people travel by train, this would have a knock on affect on business in train stations such as cafes, shops and taxis.

If you can only travel on a train by booking a seat beforehand, this creates numerous issues. How far in advance would you need to book? What happens if you need to travel by train in an emergency? What happens if you travel to work by train and you have to work late and you miss a reserved train? What if your reserved train is cancelled and subsequent trains are fully booked?

15377 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Tim, 2, #304 of 764 🔗

“We will go back to using the car.”

No, we won’t. Not when they ban internal combustion engines in just a few years’ time. There will be far fewer cars on the roads – most people unable to afford a new electric car, and diesel and petrol duties raised sky high.

15401 ▶▶ Jubs, replying to Tim, 2, #305 of 764 🔗

As well as making public transport completely unviable, both economically and in terms of all the restrictions (and making out like it’s too risky anyway), the government will whack fuel duty up so much that it will cost an absolute fortune to get anywhere by car too. Result? No-one can get to work or anywhere else and everyone stays in their homes forever.

15607 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Tim, 3, #306 of 764 🔗

This is chilling, but if it’s any consolation, these measures are totally impracticable in the south-east of England and other commuting corridors.

Also, train operators and the government made a dog’s dinner of getting trains PRM modded for disabled people, so imagine what a hash they will make of this…

15253 paulito, replying to paulito, 17, #307 of 764 🔗

More fiddling with the figures going on in Spain. On Monday they knocked almost 2,000 deaths from the figures they gave on Sunday. Today, they added back 283 of those they had removed just the day before. Sure there’s a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. It looks like a constitutional crisis is brewing as well. After the miinister of the interior sacked the head of the Guardia Civil in Madrid yesterday his second in command resigned today. The man sacked on Monday was investigating aspects of the government’s handling of the coronavirus outbreak, and, it’s alleged by the opposition, that the minister of the interior had tried to interfere in that investigation. A posible breach of the seperation of powers and obstruction of justice. Looks like the goverment is covering up something massive. The Spanish government could well be the first to fall over their handling of the virus and it will be very interesting to see what comes out of all this.

15408 ▶▶ Barnabas, replying to paulito, 1, #308 of 764 🔗

Good information Paulito. Please keep us updated.

I heard last week that Pablo Iglesias instructed the Guardia Civil to close off the road outside his chalet to prevent demonstrations outside. Is that true?

15553 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Barnabas, 1, #309 of 764 🔗

Absolutely Barnabas. Neighbours have to pass checkpoints to get to their homes. Iglesias’ chalet is a scandal in itself. While bleating about castes, his name for establishment elites, he bought a house worth 600,000 euros in an exclusive área of Madrid. He’s also up to his neck in a scandal involving a stolen phone which housed photos of an intimate nature. The cover up of the gov’s wrongdoing is such that they’re taking on both the Guardia Civil and the judiciary. They have witheld reports from the pólice and a judge. Criticism of this bunch of liars has moved from comments sections of newspapers to institutions of state.

15256 DressageRider, replying to DressageRider, 2, #310 of 764 🔗

Why Barnard Castle? This blog may not be to everyone’s taste, but he does ask some good questions here. I havent read it all yet, just wanted to share.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/05/why-barnard-castle/

15277 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DressageRider, 2, #311 of 764 🔗

Interesting. As I said earlier, if you wanted a drive to somewhere nice and test your eyes in the process, implausible though that is, you would likely drive to somewhere closer to where his second home is – Shotley Bridge, for example

15414 ▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #312 of 764 🔗

Mr Magoo has had a very big hand in driving us all off a cliff.

15267 spelldispel, replying to spelldispel, 13, #313 of 764 🔗

Who watches the news here BBC, Sky etc? I don’t and haven’t done for must be a couple of years now. Whenever I do glance at it it all seems contrieved / vapid and this was pre covid. I would be intrigued to know who watches it. I think there must be a direct correlation to who watches it and who has been suckered into this BS, I imagine most of you don’t watch it?

15272 ▶▶ Julian, replying to spelldispel, 3, #314 of 764 🔗

I do look at the BBC news website, Reuters, read The Economist – that’s about it. They all make me want to shout madly. I guess I am immune.

15321 ▶▶▶ Letmeout, replying to Julian, 6, #315 of 764 🔗

Just had BBC news on. Some shameless reporting in a hospital with a dr who kept banging on about a second wave and another saying they were nearly swamped in ICU. Turned it off as was bad for my blood pressure but am guessing no questions asked such as why was the Nightingale not used, how do they have time for all those tiktoks or making it clear that under 300 people under 60 have died who had no preexisting conditions.

15405 ▶▶▶▶ Jubs, replying to Letmeout, 2, #316 of 764 🔗

None of the reports mention that the vast majority of ICU beds in the UK are standing empty, nor say that the Nightingale hospitals were an utter waste of money.

15290 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to spelldispel, 5, #317 of 764 🔗

I’ve boycotted MSM for years now. I do look at the Times for the headlines but that’s just about it. Since day 1 of this we have been treated to a grotesque spectacle of apocalyptic headlines and scare stories. The coverage has never been impartial and fair. Never again.

15293 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to spelldispel, 5, #318 of 764 🔗

I don’t even watch live television at all. And certainly not news channels which are mostly propaganda. I stick to reading books, or something on Netflix, Amazon Prime or my stock of DVDs. It’s probably why I can still think for myself and question everything.

15301 ▶▶ Nic, replying to spelldispel, 1, #319 of 764 🔗

No I did at the start of the so called pandemic but not for 6 weeks now

15337 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to spelldispel, 3, #320 of 764 🔗

Look at The BBC “News” website then go and fact check it yourself to see if they are telling porkies.

I do not believe anything they, not just because of CV19.

15395 ▶▶ Barnabas, replying to spelldispel, 5, #321 of 764 🔗

Good question spelldispel. At the end of March I was frequently checking the TV news. Mostly Al Jazeera though as they give a much better international perspective. The BBC was way down my list of preferred TV stations. Since the end of April I have not been able to watch any TV news as I cannot accept the MSM position. LS has been source of relief during this utter madness. The only place where I can connect with like minded libertarians.

I have just been talking to my dear octogenarian parents this evening who rely on the BBC as their main source of news! They can’t understand me being so angry about this falsely perpetuated lockdown and they are so worried about the 2nd wave that everyone on the BBC keeps telling them about.

Long gone are the days when I used to be able to enjoy listening to the Today programme on Radio 4. That station has gone to the dogs with its dumbed down, liberal elite, Islingtonite perspective of the world.

During the week I listen to Mike Graham on Talk Radio. In the last couple of weeks he has come round to our way of thinking and on Mondays he has a 30 minute discussion with Peter Hitchens which is well worth listening to.

15404 ▶▶ Jubs, replying to spelldispel, 1, #322 of 764 🔗

I don’t watch any of the news on TV. Even my mother, who believes that her 0.35% chance of dying is “too high” to risk going to a shop, has said she’s sick of the MSM coverage. I saw an article recently where the writer had counted how many times they heard the C-word mentioned on TV in one day – it was something like 679. No wonder people are so brainwashed.

15518 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to spelldispel, 1, #323 of 764 🔗

Have just completed a survey for Sky News after seeing it on the webpage today.

I told them some of the reasons why I no longer watch Sky News or the BBC apart from to look at the headlines. I then go and research information for myself.

i did give dishonourable mentions to most of the journalists with their inane questions and the paucity of some of their interview techniques.

Perhaps if we all filled it in, they might get the message!

15274 Louise, replying to Louise, 19, #324 of 764 🔗

‘Friend’ on Facebook calls lockdown sceptics ‘nazi’s’ … the bloody irony!

Why in God’s name can’t they see it?! When did virtue signalling and blindly calling people nazi’s and fascists become a really easy thing?

Seriously, for those who are a few more years advanced that me, was virtue signalling a thing in the world of politics in the 80’s and 90’s but known by another name?

I’m really starting to wonder if I have some sort of mental fault that I am questioning every single little snippet of any piece of information I hear lately. I’m constantly trying to find a non-biased news source. Does such a things exist?

Apologies for all of the damn questions but I have gone from being deeply angry to utterly questioning my own naivety/ cognition/ sanity.

15313 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Louise, #325 of 764 🔗

It seems to me to have got worse, but maybe I have just got older.

15349 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Louise, 8, #326 of 764 🔗

No it’s normal, and I’m doing this too, and actually doubt is the brake we have on arrogance, or hurting others, and it’s necessary for critical thinking, and I do frequently ask myself ‘what if I’m wrong?’ and that makes me check, and be sure of sources, facts etc.

I think it’s a bit like living with an abusive partner, with all the gaslighting (that is a form of abuse), and you start to doubt your own sanity. It’s the cognitive dissonance that makes us (well, me, that’s for sure) feel at sea. It’s also really hard to be ‘kicked out of a tribe’ – which is why actual tribes do it as a punishment (it’s also how mares discipline foals, pushy, rude, or stupid youngsters that could jeopardise the safety of the group, get temporarily driven out to teach them some manners), it’s a very powerful drive in people too (which is ‘social distancing’ is so absurd and inhumane).

15363 ▶▶▶ Louise, replying to BecJT, 4, #327 of 764 🔗

Yes! Thank you for articulating this so brilliantly!!! It is like gaslighting. I think sometimes these people know what they are saying is bullshit but they don’t mind the lies because they think that morally a bit of truth is worth sacrificing. I wonder why then many of these often highly educated people don’t have that mechanism that defaults to critical thinking and questioning.

15385 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Louise, 5, #328 of 764 🔗

I know, it’s a bit like the mean girls at school, it’s just easier if someone else is ‘out’ because then it’s not you! I actually think they do know it’s bullshit on one level, but it’s very well defended now, particularly if they’ve really invested in it, castigated others, sprayed it all over the place, that is a looooong way to climb down! Much easier to just punish you, and blame you. ‘Projection’ in the psychological sense.

It’s also funny how people don’t think (not that they can’t think, they just don’t) so I’ve had one or two conversations where what I thought was completely and utterly obvious, just wasn’t, and they said ‘I hadn’t thought of that’. And they really haven’t.

I’m not one of those people that thinks people are ‘thick’, I don’t think most people are, they might not be book smart, or educated, but most people generally are not thick as two short planks. It’s a kind of laziness, and it seems to be driven by feelings not thoughts.

On top of that, I think we’ve got a massive dose of the culture wars reimagined, it’s a bit left right, it’s a bit remain leave, but it’s mainly that really polarising thing we seem to do that everything is either ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, and if you’ve said 99 things I agree with, and one I don’t, then you are wrong, everything you’ve ever said is wrong, your character is suspect and you need to be ‘cancelled’ immediately. It’s really, really intellectually lazy.

15507 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to BecJT, #329 of 764 🔗

Well said Bec, your posts are wonderful. Thank you!

15575 ▶▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to BecJT, #330 of 764 🔗

Well put.Bec.

15531 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Louise, #331 of 764 🔗

Mental weakness

15418 ▶▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to BecJT, 1, #332 of 764 🔗

We are all 100% right on this one.

15415 ▶▶ A HUG IS HEALTH, replying to Louise, 1, #333 of 764 🔗

Never in my day. We were all more down to earth and didn’t have a sense of self entitlement.

Social media has a lot to answer for.

15278 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 15, #334 of 764 🔗

Myself and my partner have been out and about to various shops over the bank holiday weekend and today. Almost no face masks in evidence, apart from in Halfords for some strange reason (are car parts more infectious than food or DIY materials?).

I’m finding, out in the real world, people are actually really relaxed and things aren’t that different to before lockdown (BLD). No one barks at you for picking things up and putting them back again. No one stresses if you don’t stay 2 metres apart. Some shops have one way systems but most people ignore them (by accident not on purpose I think).

The reality is that the government can come up with all the rules they want about post lockdown life but most people will ignore them and just get on with life. Same with manufacturers and other businesses. Lip service will be paid but like many health and safety rules, only the ones that can be practically applied will be followed. Anything considered daft will be ignored. You can do online Covid 19 compliance courses now – answer some multi-choice questions, get your certificate which fulfills the government rules and then carry on as before. Simples.

15292 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to The Spingler, 9, #335 of 764 🔗

“No one stresses if you don’t stay 2 metres apart.”

Not today in the shops I went to.
I wrote a comment on yesterday’s blog about it, which was essentially that I’ve seriously had enough of shops turned into mazes or miniature Ikeas with tape and perspex screens, arrows on the floor and signs everywhere forcing you to go where you don’t want to. The final straw was B&Q where company policy is that you have to take a trolley into the store, whether you’re buying something or not, for “social distancing.” So more touching trollies that you don’t need to, more rules and jobsworths ordering you about.
I’ve had enough of it.
And queuing up outside a store when it’s sunny and warm might be bearable now, but if this “new normal” becomes permanent, it’s going to get very old, very fast come bad weather. People will shop less, and more stores will go bust.

15295 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Lms23, 3, #336 of 764 🔗

Yes, B&Q management has gone insane. I avoid it like the plague.

15306 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Jonathan Castro, 4, #337 of 764 🔗

Yes,B&Q and also Sainsbury’s appear to be run a resurrected Third Reich now.I will never use either ever again.

15318 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Paul, 4, #338 of 764 🔗

B&Q was one of the stores we went into on Sunday. We joined a very short queue to get in, took a trolley because we needed one but the person in front of us went in without one. There were arrows on the floor but people were generally going where they wanted to. Perhaps it depends on what part of the country you’re in? I agree though, queuing will have to disappear before the autumn/winter – and I’m sure it will.

Haven’t been in a Sainburys since lockdown but done Waitrose (like normal inside), Asda (again apart from arrows on floor, like normal) and Co-op, which I only discovered had a one way system when they announced it on the tannoy, but I’d already been in the shop five minutes and got everything I’d gone in for.

We also bought an air rifle today, come the revolution and all that. No real effort to socially distance in the gun shop. Sales person held the gun, my OH held the gun, I held the gun and passed it back to the sales person.

Normal will return sooner than we think.

15356 ▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Jonathan Castro, 2, #339 of 764 🔗

Totally agree. Had a nasty experience there when they first reopened. I doubt I’ll be going back.

15331 ▶▶▶ Old fred, replying to Lms23, 4, #340 of 764 🔗

agree – the queues outside can be very long but when you get in you notice there are very few customers actually in the place and only a handful of checkouts open. Their daily takings must be well down cf. pre-lockdown. Can’t see how they can survive long term if these restrictions are not relaxed. 2m distance is the problem. Am sick to death of hearing govt scientists prattle on about avoiding risk of virus spreading. Worse than Groundhog Day.

15391 ▶▶▶ AngryCashUser, replying to Lms23, #341 of 764 🔗

There’s not much they can do if you just walk in calmly without a trolley.

15312 ▶▶ Julian, replying to The Spingler, 3, #342 of 764 🔗

Yes but many places will be put out of business by the rules before they are able to stay open long enough for people to ignore the rules.

Offices will be closed indefinitely.

Schools and universities will be online.

Any mass participation event will be unworkable.

How can any function like a big party or large wedding work?

A lot of organisations will have no option but to go along with the rules or face closure.

15352 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Julian, 1, #343 of 764 🔗

…or, rebel against the rules.

15358 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Julian, 2, #344 of 764 🔗

Also once the chancellor decides how he is going to recover the countless billions he has given out to have an early summer holiday, VAT increases, income tax increases, corporation tax increases, business rate increases. We will have a lot less income to spend.

15376 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #345 of 764 🔗

Yes. the shops will open but nobody will be able to afford to buy anything, LOL

15393 ▶▶▶ AngryCashUser, replying to Julian, #346 of 764 🔗

If we gave up on all the draconian and busybody measures but kept a ban on really large gatherings (say >100 people in close proximity) we could live almost exactly as normal until a vaccine was ready. None of the zealots have the brain power to recognise that the very mildest of restricions are enough though, they have a masochistic tendency similar to the victorian “if the medicine tastes bad it is working” which assuems that if they don’t feel viral cotnrol measures hurting them then the measuresn’t aren’t enough.

15282 FNG_6T3, #347 of 764 🔗

And Finally.. Violent Amnesia by Oscar Murillo, aged three-and-a-half

Hahaha :>D Worth reading for that alone.

15285 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 22, #348 of 764 🔗

I’m setting up a new website for the Conservative Freedom Party. Really conservative, and totally anti-lockdown.

It will just be a talking shop really to start with. Some kind of pressure group thing with a space where people can suggest policies if they want.

Whether it will turn out to be anything much I don’t know, but it will recommend nobody votes “Conservative”, Labour or Lib Dim ever again. Or Green!

Domains all registered: com, net and org 🙂

15289 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Jonathan Castro, #349 of 764 🔗

I’m with you

15341 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Castro, #350 of 764 🔗

Looks like you’re competing with the Freedom Conservative Party of Alberta on Google atm.

Is this a new party you’re planning on setting up?

15350 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Mark, 2, #351 of 764 🔗

Yes, I did see that when I did a search for it!

Well, I have not the resources nor the time to set up a proper political party, but it could morph into one if enough people take an interest.

It would of course be socially conservative and full of common sense – the exact opposite of the current “Conservative” party.

15366 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Castro, 4, #352 of 764 🔗

Well I’m liking your pitch so far.

A strong commitment to real freedom of speech (no puerile Euro-nonsense about balancing it against other supposed “rights”) would be a good start.

And a “never again” campaign against lockdown.

15368 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Mark, 2, #353 of 764 🔗

Free speech must include the freedom to offend, or it’s not free!

15373 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #354 of 764 🔗

That’ll do nicely.

15286 Nic, 1, #355 of 764 🔗

Heard that Hancock has said that the government wont hesitate to lock down individual towns or areas if there is a spike in cases ! Good luck with that one Dom

15305 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 14, #356 of 764 🔗

That quote from Gove: “ “So when it comes to touching and testing goods, when it comes to trying on clothing, when it comes to trying make-up and so on, that all of us exercise restraint in not doing that and recognise that as these stores reopen, it is a new normal.”

The “new normal”. What, you mean permanently? Has anyone in government offered an opinion as to when, if ever, this anti-social distancing will end? I’ve not seen one yet.

15311 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Tenchy, 16, #357 of 764 🔗

I don’t do new normal as there’s no such thing. It’s a psychological way of making you think it IS normal. It’s either normal or it’s not. So it’s not!

15316 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 22, #358 of 764 🔗

According to that bastion of fine journalism, The Sun, Handjob is looking to “permit” families to meet each other, but only in the garden. The man has lost his fucking mind. It is not policeable and people are

already doing it (other than those saintly wankers that infest The Times readers’ forums). My feeling is this gig will soon be over, not because of government decree but because the great British people just tell Hanjob and his fellow idiots to fuck off.

15423 ▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #359 of 764 🔗

The gig has long been over, save for the saintly types you’ve mentioned above. The question now is when the newly converted will realise we’ve been conned all along and that the lockdown strategy (not the virus itself) was, is and will remain (pun intended) a hoax!

15537 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #360 of 764 🔗

Yeah it’s goading the population… What if you don’t have a garden for god’s sake? This discriminates against the poor and ironically anyone in a swanky city centre apartment.

15319 Mark, replying to Mark, 2, #361 of 764 🔗

James Delingpole and I debate Cummings-gate in the latest episode of our weekly podcast. We both agree: he shouldn’t resign because he drove to Durham with his wife and son, but his decision to support the lockdown is unforgivable. Listen to the whole riveting discussion here .

Well worth a listen. I was favourably surprised by the discussion of Cummingsgate, was rather concerned before listening that one or both you might be a bit overprotective of Cummings. Probably I hadn’t properly absorbed your writings on the point here.

Re trying to interest your teenage kids in Poltergeist as a classic (horror) movie, I found Alien went down well with my teenagers (a few years ago now). Also other classics from that period: Terminator, Predator, Aliens. (But a few years later, the youngest did accuse me of having traumatised her with the eye surgery scene in Terminator. And there’s a sex scene in Terminator that’s a bit embarrassing in a family viewing….)

And yes, Delingpole’s right about Idiocracy, it is already here. (It is a good film, by the way, in a sort of slapstick American way).

15353 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 1, #362 of 764 🔗

OK off-topic question. Who is the only actor to have been killed by an alien, a terminator and a predator?

15371 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, #363 of 764 🔗

Damn! I’m not very good on celebs and actors/actresses, I tend to pay them no mind. And there were so many sequels……

15512 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 1, #364 of 764 🔗

Bill Paxton. He’s one of the punks at the start of T1, a marine in Aliens and I think he’s quite a main character in Predator 2 (I don’t remember Predator 2 for much except two hours of disappointment waiting for Arnie to turn up).

I think that android guy with a Swedish sounding name also gets killed by all three if you count the alien vs predator films.

15544 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to guy153, #365 of 764 🔗

Is there a film that Bill Paxton appears in where he doesn’t die?

15547 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to guy153, 1, #366 of 764 🔗

Lance Henriksen?

15819 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 1, #367 of 764 🔗

Very good! Now I just have to remember the name and I’ve got a great trivia question for family Christmas evenings.:-)

15545 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Mark, #368 of 764 🔗

Haha yeah…. ‘why do you use brawndo on plants?’… ‘it contains electrolytes and makes plants grow’…on and on like the lockdowners. Daft but underrated . But then I was always a fan of things like Beavis and Butt-head growing up. Office Space is another gem by far judge’s best film

15322 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 24, #369 of 764 🔗

I have been following this site for several weeks now and, like many other people have found it both an oasis of sanity and a useful resource. However, I’d like to make a couple of observations about how things seem to be going as the Government continues to drag- out the exit from the lock-up.

Where once Toby was receiving useful input from scientists, mathematicians and other experts which helped ‘beef up’ the LS case, these seem to be drying up now -perhaps this is to be expected as the virus disappears. The round-ups of information lately seem to focus on what the MSM is saying, usually making depressing reading!  Since all of the press is in partnership with the Government and does nothing but parrot the required propaganda ( https://www.societyofeditors.org/soe_news/all-in-all-together-uk-government-partners-with-newspaper-industry-on-covid-19-ad-campaign/ , I find this a wind-up, and it’s clear from the many despairing comments that others do too. If I really want to know what bilge the BBC or the broadsheets are pumping out I can look for myself although I try not to!

Secondly, I think that it may be a mistake for Toby Young to get too bogged down in trying to explain away Dominic Cummings’ behaviour. There are certainly questions to be asked and answered: 1) Why has this story only broken now 2) Why say that Dominic Cummings merely ‘supported’ the lock-down when in fact he was instrumental in making sure that it was imposed (see: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-28/top-aide-to-u-k-s-johnson-pushed-scientists-to-back-lockdown ) and 3) Why is the PM apparently committing career suicide to support Cummings? Neither of these men is fit for public office but the Cummings trip is a sideshow.

It is not necessary to be a conspiracy theorist to understand that we are in the middle of a political coup and that destroying the economy while keeping people frightened and distracted by a largely manufactured crisis is how they are achieving it. Like all totalitarian regimes, this one is meticulously documenting its own crimes – read the Cabinet Office documents instead of the MSM! For anyone who wonders what is going on and has heard that they are wild-eyed nutters, please think again and watch the brilliantly researched news from UK column where it will be made very clear to you. They broadcast a bulletin at 1pm every Monday, Wednesday and Friday.

In addition to challenging our MPs about the above, I think we should now stop talking about the ‘lockdown’ and do everything we can to resist what people are increasingly calling ‘anti-social distancing’. That is what is doing the damage to society and is the most insidious aspect of it since it affects just about the whole of our lives.  Lots of people in the wild North West are quietly breaking the ‘advice’ – we see it all around us despite the few mask-wearers, and the buses are getting fuller every day. People are meeting up with friends and family – we even saw a garden full of people today in full view of the road!

We will need to try ever harder to break down this madness once the poor sods attempting to open their businesses do so under a deliberately impossible regime of restrictions.

15324 ▶▶ Julian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #370 of 764 🔗

Totally agree about where the next battleground is.

15668 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #371 of 764 🔗

Very good point about reading the government’s documentation!

And yes, I agree, this a coup, a regional and global one.

15325 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 21, #372 of 764 🔗

Just sent the following to my MP again. Feel free to copy/share and do the same:

Dear Munira,

Sorry to contact you again, but I today read the new rules regarding opening up of the retail sector on 15th June.

Something really needs to be done about these absurd proposals. Shopping is supposed to be a fun and pleasant experience. Have you seen what they’re suggesting? No trying on clothes, no browsing, no touching any items, endless queuing. Who will bother? It will push all the trade to online, giving them yet more of an unfair advantage. These new restrictions have just handed the kiss of death to the retail sector, and the gift of the gods to Jeff Bezos.

Social distancing is cruel, inhumane and utterly utterly pointless. It’s based on no science, and as we have seen, Covid-19 will be completely gone from the U.K. by the end of June/ beginning of July. The director of Public Health of the World Health Organization (WHO), María Neira, said on Monday that the models they are working with are “increasingly” ruling out a second important wave of the coronavirus.
Source: https://www.canarianweekly.com/posts/second-wave-increasingly-unlikely

The mandatory quarantining will also kill the travel and tourism industry.

These new rules (which are being made up as they go along) are being invented without any Parliamentary scrutiny. We are now living under a dictatorship, and I fear we are heading for a way of life akin to North Korea. It is depressing as hell. Where is the sense of proportion and common sense to any of this? What ever happened to democracy?

Regards
R Dawg (obviously used my real name)

15329 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RDawg, 6, #373 of 764 🔗

Nice. Do let us know if you get an answer. I’ve written four so far. First one a reply from the assistant assuring me that MP would be in touch shortly, rest just got auto replies.

God knows how they sleep at night.

15344 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Julian, 5, #374 of 764 🔗

Probably sleep very well on their constituent financed beds in their taxpayer financed second homes, whilst laughing at us fools.

15338 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RDawg, 1, #375 of 764 🔗

An excellent letter! I would love to see hear reply.

15340 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #376 of 764 🔗

sorry, her reply (!)

15354 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to RDawg, 1, #377 of 764 🔗

Very good. Still waiting to hear from my MP. I think her office is a black hole.

15409 ▶▶ ianp, replying to RDawg, #378 of 764 🔗

Keep at it ! But you just won’t get any reasonable reply, feels like a black hole. You got to take the fight in immediate ways be it by the dreaded social media or talking to people. For as long as there are a majority of fearful sheep out there, I don’t think this will ever end 🤬

15452 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RDawg, #379 of 764 🔗

Excellent. Please let us know her reply.

15332 SRagdoll, replying to SRagdoll, 29, #380 of 764 🔗

So I have been doing my bit by sharing articles on Facebook to try and get people thinking and questioning a bit more. For weeks it seemed as if it was falling on deaf ears, then tonight I got a WhatsApp from a old work friend who I haven’t seen in years. She wanted to thank me for posting the articles as they had really helped her to put things in to perspective and not panic as much. She has just had a baby and said that between mummy groups chats and the MSM fear porn she was starting to think the world was doomed. This really made my day.

May the good fight continue!

15359 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to SRagdoll, 3, #381 of 764 🔗

Well done. Keep up the good work!

15347 GetAGrip, 3, #382 of 764 🔗

Apologies if this has been discussed already, but am I missing something?
Why are we even discussing social distancing?
In 4-5 weeks time COVID-19 cases will be vastly reduced and associated deaths will be in the 10s daily not 100s.
The government Action Plan clearly states that when we move to Level 2 ie; “COVID-19 is present but cases and transmission is low” then there will be “no or little social distancing measures”. 🤔

15361 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #383 of 764 🔗

Self styled new media journalist, Anna Brees has interviewed a local press journalist, interesting watch.

https://youtu.be/M-nu8j5_OiE

15424 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #384 of 764 🔗

Looking at the first like on my message “self styled” sounds wrong. Anna is a former ITV & BBC journalist & presenter, she now uses new media to get her message across.

15378 Barnabas, replying to Barnabas, 9, #385 of 764 🔗

This letter from the CEO of the RNLI has to be read.

https://rnli.org/news-and-media/2020/may/26/rnli-chief-executive-mark-dowie-writes-open-letter-during-pandemic

And we have to train our lifeguards in procedures to reduce the risk of infection….”

Is his biggest concern the perceived risk of C19 infection or the loss of revenue?

I have a great deal of respect for the brave Lifeboat crews, but I have zero respect for the senior leadership when they take such a position.

15380 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Barnabas, 5, #386 of 764 🔗

If he’s the man I’ve just seen on television, then he’s an arsehole of the highest order.

15517 ▶▶▶ Letmeout, replying to Tenchy, 1, #387 of 764 🔗

Yep I saw him too and shall be cancelling my monthly donation to them today!

15382 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Barnabas, 13, #388 of 764 🔗

Considering that most cases of the virus are now in care homes or hospitals, and it has almost gone from the general population, just how many little old ladies with zimmer frames on a care home outing to the beach, does he think his teams are going to have to save?

15440 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #389 of 764 🔗

Well, they might try surfing. You gotta prepare for the worst.

15390 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Barnabas, 2, #390 of 764 🔗

Another BOB from monsters v aliens!

15383 Mark, replying to Mark, 9, #391 of 764 🔗

Johnson’s Top Aide [Dominic Cummings] Pushed Scientists to Back U.K. Lockdown

Any lockdown sceptic still inclined to give Cummings any support should definitely read and absorb the implications of that linked Bloomberg piece from a couple of weeks ago!

The link was posted by MiriamW earlier, but it was in the middle of a long post and I think it’s important enough to be highlighted separately.

15384 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mark, 11, #392 of 764 🔗

Then Cummings must go. He is unelected and should not carry this much power. He is obviously behind both lockdown and 14 day quarantine decisions, and they are both disastrous.

15403 ianp, replying to ianp, 10, #393 of 764 🔗

Fuck me, from the utterly surreal to the batshit mentalist surreally ridiculous today. We are all being played like kippers. Today must be Peak Idiocracy surely?

I mean who do you go after to hit hard first? So many clowns

I still think it’s the media – only just. These roaches are meant to be journalists, impartial (yeah… I know that one is a stretch) and critical, informative. They have been absolutely none of those things for the past 2 months, I do believe they are responsible for the brainwashing of the sheep – they have to pay dearly. Anyone got a 2 metre long baseball bat?

Once they start asking the proper questions then you go after this bloody government.

All while our attention is diverted, there is highly worrying news around the china – India border. Don’t take your eye off that.

15410 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to ianp, #394 of 764 🔗

I think you need another metre on that bat.

15411 ▶▶ Hieronimusb, replying to ianp, 17, #395 of 764 🔗

It was decided by SAGE weeks ago to ramp up the ‘level of personal threat’, the media have merely obliged. The only way out of this is mass civil disobedience.

15573 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Hieronimusb, 2, #396 of 764 🔗

Obliged and not questioned it. Co-ordinated. Sensationalised it, exaggerated it. You have got to get the sheep off the MSM and then you will have true mass civil disobedience

15416 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 5, #397 of 764 🔗

I’d like to start by saying this site has the weirdest comments approach I’ve ever come across. I’ve yet to see a comment of mine appear…

Otherwise, I think it’s pretty clear that the mendacious mainstream media have decided that they can either exact Brexit revenge or actually still stop Brexit by lopping off the head of Dominic Cummings. They show absolutely no concern whatsoever for Cumming’s child (who was hospitalised). They would quite happily see Cummings, his wife and his child, dead as long as Brexit didn’t happen. I mean that quite literally. They are all very, very extreme in their political opinions.

I might add that Maitlis on Newsnight stated at least three times as fact that Cummings broke the rules. I am sure someone will complain and it will be interesting to see the BBC response, particularly given Durham Police have been told by their Commissioner to investigate.

15417 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 1, #398 of 764 🔗

Yay…finally one got through!

15841 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to OKUK, #399 of 764 🔗

I take it you’ve seen the BBC reaction? In case not, here it is, courtesy of the Daily Telegraph:

“We’ve reviewed the entirety of last night’s Newsnight, including the opening section, and while we believe the programme contained fair, reasonable and rigorous journalism, we feel that we should have done more to make clear the introduction was a summary of the questions we would examine, with all the accompanying evidence, in the rest of the programme. As it was, we believe the introduction we broadcast did not meet our standards of due impartiality. Our staff have been reminded of the guidelines.”

15420 OKUK, 11, #400 of 764 🔗

We need to remind ourselves at intervals that:

  1. Our death per million rate with lockdown is far worse than Sweden’s with no lockdown and Sweden have not devastated their economy or created a climate of fear that prevents people seeking medical treatment for other conditions.

2.No country in the Far East – not China, not South Korea, not Taiwan, not Singapore and not Japan (amazingly given their aged population!), have had a national lockdown. If your politicians can’t even utter the words “Why not?” then you know there is something very broken about your political system.

15422 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 4, #401 of 764 🔗

We can see now how there is really virtually no difference between Sky, ITV and BBC in terms of propaganda output.

Tonight we had James Mates – I reject the idea that we should call him “Traitor Mates” after his periodic sojourn in Brussels telling us how well the EU was doing – now telling us how wonderfully well the Greeks had been doing in combatting Covid since mid February! lol

Are we really supposed to believe this fairy tale?

Were there no Chinese tourists moving on from Milan to Athens between December and February or indeed flying in direct from Wuhan?

How on Earth can you restart your tourism trade if Covid is, as WHO tell us, 20% plus asymptomatic and so highly infectious? You can’t, this is fantasy stuff.

The Greeks haven’t done just “well” but “unbelievably well” and the “unbelievably” is quite intentional. Their death rate per million is something like 1/40th of Italy’s. Given all the cultural similarities – food, old people living with young, air pollution (Athens probably worse than Milan) and loads of tourists flying in from all over the world – there is no reason to think Greece could have escaped the virus so well. But equally, why did the virus not affect Southern Italy so badly at all (in some regions the virus hardly caused any deaths).

15448 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to OKUK, 9, #402 of 764 🔗

I lived most of the year in Greece for five years, I came home last winter to the UK permanently, I have lots of friends there (beautiful island), that island relies entirely on a) imports by ferry from the mainland and Italy and b) tourism. They are in despair, after such a brutal austerity. My two closest friends there, one runs a kids play scheme for workers by day, and plays music by night, the other is a villa rep for a posh British company, neither expect to work this summer. We are talking cafes, restaurants, hotels, airport transfer, ground crew, cash and carry, laundries, hotel maintenance companies, reps, car hire, and on and on and on, their whole tourism supply chain is on its knees. It’s 20% of Greece’s GDP. The island had one death, and a handful of cases

15617 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to BecJT, 3, #403 of 764 🔗

It’s insanity. Tourism in Spain accounts for 12% of the country’s GDP but we have a minister of tourism who said that tourism contributes “no added value”. Yes, the minister for tourism actually said that. Meanwhile, 7 of Spain’s autonomous regions have had 0 covid deaths for 5 days running.

15715 ▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to BecJT, #404 of 764 🔗

Which island was this??

15425 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 2, #405 of 764 🔗

Here’s a random selection of our finest media moral exemplars – your job is to order them into a list of ten who would be (least likely first) least likely to have travelled over 200 miles to an empty property near their parents if they feared there would be no one to care for their child as they and their partner felt they were succumbing to Covid-19:

Beth Rigby, Jon Snow, Huw Edwards, Sophie Ridge, Adam Boulton, Emily Maitlis, Robert Peston, Emma Barnett, Laura Kuennesberg and Faisal Islam.

Of course, I accept that it is unthinkable that any of our media representatives are anything but incredibly moral and upright and would rather have risked the welfare of their child than be seen to have compromised governmental guidance. But, nevertheless, suspend disbelief and try to play along!

15446 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to OKUK, 1, #406 of 764 🔗

I’d say Faisal least, and Peston most likely.

15734 ▶▶ anon, replying to OKUK, #407 of 764 🔗

operation mockingbird

15426 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, #408 of 764 🔗

I am having a bit of a late night at the keyboard, probably should not be doing this at 02:10, but here goes…

If labour had won the election last December, I wonder how we would be looking now?

I have not had a drink honest.

15435 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Dave #KBF, #409 of 764 🔗

We would be locked in forever

15436 ▶▶ Dwayne, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #410 of 764 🔗

The same. We have our “progressive” PM Blackface McSparklesocks (Trudeau) and he has been a step behind the USA at every turn. But only by a day or two. All the provincial premiers have been hesitant to do anything. The “do something” politician knows to allegiance to the left or the right, but they all did much the same thing.

I take it back, a little, I think the “progressives” have been a tad more on the draconian side, see Spain. In the USA the states with Democrat Govs have been the most draconian as well. Seems to be the appeal to authority, and authoritarianism, that the left prefers.

15441 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #411 of 764 🔗

Far worse. As I have said before, just look at Wales, the Socialist Stalinist Gulag.

15443 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #412 of 764 🔗

They’ve already told us the answer to that, lockdown quicker, harder, more comprehensively and with more glee for authoritarianism (and I say that as someone politically homeless, after always thinking I was naturally left leaning – not full blown socialist, but left of centre).

These days I’m looking on aghast and have been since the whole Momentum (or Bromentum more aptly), transgender wars, anti semitism, Corbyn (WTAF?), and deranged snobbery and contempt for ordinary voters when the Tories won the election, came to pass. They’ve been witch hunting people out, having fisticuffs at CLPs, and running the really most vile hate campaigns against their own members who won’t toe the line for a really long time. Those people feel very emboldened.

This – Labour campaigning for mass poverty and bashing their allies over the head with a Tory policy and if you object you are put in the same category as a gun toting, Christian Evangelical Breitbart reading, MAGA hat wearing ‘right winger’ – is the last bloody straw.

15478 ▶▶ James007, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #413 of 764 🔗

I think it probably would be worse if Corbyn was doing this. It is more shocking to me that it is a Conservative majority government doing it.

15500 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to James007, 2, #414 of 764 🔗

I know, I agree, but the lack of logic puzzles me. How have we ended up with Labour using a Tory policy to chastise their own supporters as ‘right wing’? It makes no sense!

15578 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Dave #KBF, #415 of 764 🔗

Just take a look at Scotland, and there is your answer

15442 Sipu, replying to Sipu, 19, #416 of 764 🔗

A lockdown analogy:

The wildebeest in Africa migrate every year, as we know, in search of food to survive. When they reach the Mara river, the crocodiles are waiting. They know this and they know they will lose a few when they cross but for the sake of the survival of the herd, they cross anyway. They have done this successfully for hundreds of years and survived.

Implementing lockdown is like putting up a fence to prevent the wildebeest from crossing the Mara river to save those that would be eaten by the crocodiles, and as a result, the whole herd dies of starvation!

15483 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Sipu, 6, #417 of 764 🔗

I have horses, I’ve been around them all my life (luckily, what a blessing to have had these complex, gentle, peaceable creatures in my life). I have been mulling ‘herd immunity’ as horses are immensely social, have complex friendships, including ‘pair bonding’ which isn’t about sex and procreation, but friendship – so two mares, two geldings, or in my case a mare and a gelding build a special friendship that will endure years of separation, (if you’ve ever seen two reunited horses, it’d bring tears to your eyes and a glow to your heart!).

It is against all welfare guidance to keep a horse on its own, they absolutely need each other for their own welfare, and peace of mind. Horses kept alone often suffer from chronic tiredness and stress related illness as they can’t sleep, and are in a state of distress and anguish, and often sicken and die, of a broken heart.

They above all are herd animals, this ensures their survival. As you might know, horses sleep standing up (they have special locking joints in their hocks, to make sure they don’t fall over when they nod off), but they do need to deep sleep lying down. When that happens, all but one lies down (they take it in turns), and his job is be to the ‘look out’ horse, and he’ll raise the alarm should a predator appear.

The worst possible fate that can befall a horse is to be kicked out of the herd (matriarchs will discipline unruly youngsters by posturing and temporarily driving them out of the group to give them a flavour of what will befall them if they don’t buck their ideas up). It is by being IN the herd that they remain immune from danger, and get all their needs met.

I’ve been watching them through all this lunacy, thinking we knuckle headed humans never seen to learn from what’s right under our nose.

15490 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, 6, #418 of 764 🔗

Oh and they are panicaholics, run first, ask questions later. However, they are quite astute risk assessors. So they’ll flip the lid, run around like crazy on adrenaline (‘we’re all going to die, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!’), and at about a quarter of a mile, they stop, look back and assess risk. Unless kept unnaturally, horses rarely get traumatized, as if the risk turns out to be a false alarm (or even if after a close shave, the threat is gone), they return to a state of relaxation and go on with their lives! If my lot had been in charge of coronavirus, we’d be back to grazing on the prairie without a care on the world by now!

15504 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to BecJT, 1, #419 of 764 🔗

My herd of ponies would have run to the nearest patch of green and started munching. Nothing more important in life than grass and pony friends.

15625 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Sipu, 1, #420 of 764 🔗

Very Good, Sipu. Perfect analogy.

15445 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #421 of 764 🔗

A few days’ back someone in this blog predicted a riot and I won’t be surprised if there’s one later in the year particularly as the unemployment rate goes up further and more businesses close.

Social distancing is already falling apart and a lot of these regulations smack of a desperate need to reassert control. However it could finally fall apart due to the following factors:

1, mass civil disobedience

2.more shops, restaurants and business close down

3.the likes of the National Gallery, National Trust, English Heritage, other museums and heritage sites a report massive fall in number of visitors to the point that it is no longer sustainable to keep their venues open

4.ditto arts and culture organisations (ex Royal Opera House) – they are already reporting massive losses

5.transport companies also report massive losses – expensive tickets will put people off

6.bad weather similar to the washout autumn and winter we had last year – social distancing will be hard to enforce in the rain and cold weather

7.rioting as the number of unemployed go up and they’re unable to find new jobs

Either way the government needs to wake up and smell the coffee. As I’ve said before the British are not like the French but there is always a first time.

15453 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #422 of 764 🔗

Looking at the “Our plan to rebuild: The UK Government’s COVID-19 recovery strategy” document from the Government there does not seem to be a way out of this, and that it will go on for years until a vaccine is found.

At some point the populace has to wake up as to what is happening.We’re looking at 3.5 million unemployed and I believe those estimates are only up to the end of this year, and the end of Self Employed, and Small and Medium sized businesses, with even big companies like Rolls Royce shedding staff as the aerospace industry is stuffed.

When are all these environmentalists going to get a voice too? At the moment huge amounts of single use plastic is being used. Carriers bags are back again as you can’t re-use them for home deliveries, I had a delivery this morning and their was 13 carrier bags, if I was shopping myself i would’ve just re-used 4-5 that I already had.

15456 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to daveyp, 2, #423 of 764 🔗

Agree. However its the masks and gloves that are the bigger problem at least in my area ironically not so much single use plastic bags.

15615 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #424 of 764 🔗

I keep finding masks and gloves discarded on the public footpath opposite my house. If the people who wear them are so paranoid about catching the virus then why don;t they pick them up to stop the potential threat.

15675 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to daveyp, 1, #425 of 764 🔗

It is disgusting. Like I said, its ironic that those who wear them are the worst offenders not only with not observing basic hygiene protocols but also don’t care about their surroundings. Many of them are a bunch of virtue signallers that’s all.

15461 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #426 of 764 🔗

In Scotland the National Trust has issued redundancy notices to most of its staff as Sturgeon and her cohort of incompetents seek to destroy our heritage. The political symbolism of Bannockburn being closed by the SNP is almost beyond parody.

15467 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Guirme, 1, #427 of 764 🔗

I believe its the same here as well and they have shelved several conservation projects too – which is ironic considering that without conservation many of the objects would suffer long term damage that could be irreparable.

Have not heard anything yet about English Heritage.

15484 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #428 of 764 🔗

Agreed. I’d add

8. Rising inflation. I have definitely noticed things are getting significantly more expensive.
9. Proposed tax increases/pay freezes to pay for all of this.
10. Some sort of housing market crash?

15491 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 1, #429 of 764 🔗

Well said. The irony with no 10 is that its long overdue – our housing market (especially in London and Edinburgh is catching up too) is overheated and has needed a correction for all these years. I suspect we are in for like Japan circa 1992 but far worse.

15510 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #430 of 764 🔗

When the lockdown first began I thought there would be civil disobedience after a few weeks but it never came. Seems people only get angry if somebody or something they don’t like gets voted for but are quite happy to bend over and ask for more when their liberty is at stake.

15520 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #431 of 764 🔗

Trouble is we do have quite a sizeable contingent of the populace who have been terrified into complying and the “I’m all right Jack” brigade. Maybe this lot will start to wake up when they find that they will have no jobs to return to and/or the government announces new tax measures and raid their pensions.

15565 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #432 of 764 🔗

I remember the riots in the 70s and early 80s due to desperation, unemployment, huge taxes, rubbish piling up in the streets, 3 day weeks and power cuts. It’s coming again.

15680 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #433 of 764 🔗

During their lockdown, the French weren’t exactly like the French either.

15875 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gossamer, #434 of 764 🔗

Which is rather odd. They must have been scared witless as well

15449 Tim Bidie, 1, #435 of 764 🔗

Covid 19

Weather is important:

‘Sajadi et al. ( Sajadi et al., 2020 ) observed that the COVID-19 spread was majorly supported by weather parameters in the ranges 5 °C < T < 11 °C and 3 < AH < 8 g/m3. The vulnerable ranges identified in the current study lie within these ranges. In another study by Bukhari and Jameel (2020) , majority of the new cases around the world were found to be in countries with 3 °C < T < 17 °C and 4 < AH < 9 g/m3. These US based findings from our study are consistent with these worldwide observations.’

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7194548/

Care homes are important

Southern Italy has few care homes and a warm climate. Greece has few care homes, fewer people using them, and a warm climate, . Both Southern Italy (Sicily 271 deaths) and Greece (173 Covid 19 deaths) have had much much lower Covid 19 mortality than elsewhere in Europe.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/154505/article/ekathimerini/community/care-homes-see-mass-exodus

file:///C:/Users/tim/Downloads/IT_ESPN%20thematic%20report%20on%20LTC.pdf

A pattern has also emerged more generally:

‘What is notable is that these patterns of difference in response to COVID-19 seem to directly mirror differences in late life expectancy, in general. After the age of sixty five, men have shorter life expectancies, African Americans have shorter life expectancies and people with co-morbidity have shorter life expectancies. It seems a reasonable hypothesis to suggest that COVID-19 is like a magnifying glass, amplifying but not fundamentally altering the chronology of life and death nor the impact of social divisions.’

http://www.transformingsociety.co.uk/2020/05/20/covid-19-amplifies-but-doesnt-alter-the-chronology-of-life-and-death/

So, given that warmer weather in Britain and elsewhere in Europe has intervened to reduce common cold viruses (as every year) including Covid 19, care homes can be protected by the simple act of frequent hand washing and Covid 19 mortality reflects normal mortality by age group, only exacerbated by widespread, unhelpful, governmental intervention, what more is really required for normal life to resume?

15450 Jerry Nerts, 1, #436 of 764 🔗

I actually like some of that guy’s paintings. You definitely showed one of the crappier ones

15451 Mark, replying to Mark, 4, #437 of 764 🔗

55% of Tory voters say Dominic Cummings should resign over his ‘lockdown breach’ journeys – as Boris Johnson’s own approval rating plummets from 19% to minus 1% in days

•A new poll reveals that some 66 per cent of people think that Dominic Cummings should resign from his role

•Further 63 per cent believe Boris Johnson should sack Cummings, including 53 per cent of Tory supporters

•Sixty-six per cent of respondents believe Cummings was not honest in his unprecedented press conference

•Boris Johnson’s approval ratings among both the country and Conservative voters have also dropped sharply

Mail still pushing.

Go git ‘im, boys!

15454 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 13, #438 of 764 🔗

And just in case there are any lockdown sceptics still inclined to try to keep this dangerous incompetent in government, a reminder of the damage he (with other Guilty Men, admittedly) managed to inflict in just a few months in a position of influence:

Johnson’s Top Aide [Dominic Cummings] Pushed Scientists to Back U.K. Lockdown

According to two people involved, Cummings played far more than a bystander’s role at a crucial SAGE meeting on March 18, as the panel discussed social distancing options to tackle the Covid-19 outbreak.

Speaking on condition of anonymity because the meetings are private, the people said Cummings asked why a lockdown was not being imposed sooner, swayed the discussion toward faster action, and made clear he thought pubs and restaurants should be closed within two days. They then were .”

And let’s not forget the spiffing “stable door – horse – bolted” idea to quarantine people flying into Britain, four months after such a measure could possibly be of any use. More real damage to real people’s livelihoods and freedoms, just to try to boost political reputations.

15469 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, 10, #439 of 764 🔗

I think Norway’s epidemiologists have now broken ranks to say lockdown there was against their advice, they didn’t need to do it, they were overruled and it was a political decision. I am almost certain that’s what will come out here too. The sooner the better.

I was never angry Cummings broke lockdown, I was angry because in doing so with such cavalier contempt he made it plain they knew it was complete bullshit.

15471 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mark, 2, #440 of 764 🔗

The concern I have is the attempt to remove Cummings is based on destroying Brexit more than anger at the him flouting the lockdown. It’s worrying Cummings is at the heart of all decision making I thought he was supposed to be sorting out the civil service.

15474 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #441 of 764 🔗

I’d share your concern if I thought Brexit were really threatened by this, but I think we have to assume that’s going to go ahead and focus on getting the lockdown Guilty Men out. Imo, the ongoing controversy and what it reveals about the cynical hypocrisy of those brexiteers trying to protect Cummings is probably doing more damage to the cause than anything, anyway.

Get him out and move on to the next target of opportunity.

15585 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #442 of 764 🔗

Oh yes…. Brexit us definitely in play here now and I think is a major reason for what’s going on right now.

I voted to remain, but looking at what could be happening in Europe with the huge proposed bailouts by the richer member states like Germany, I am coming around to the idea that it’s best out.

I am sure it’s the thing that is dragging this out stupidly

15472 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Mark, 5, #443 of 764 🔗

The man is quite possibly a psychopath.

“Boris Johnson’s approval ratings among both the country and Conservative voters have also dropped sharply”

Whilst this is good news, I’m very worried about what insane policies they may device to try and turn this round. What on earth will we see next?

– 150,000 more nurses by 2022 to secure our place as the country with the best ever health service
-£2.5bn “social distancing” fund to support companies impacted by pror mad policy
– A new bank holiday “NHS day” to celebrate the founding of our health service
-£100m Clem Attlee Fund for “social media engagement” for police and health services
-£50m Arts Council grants to support new television, including the “NHSX X-factor” for nursing talent

15516 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 5, #444 of 764 🔗

I believe that if Cummings is brought down, as he should of course be, it will break Boris and this appalling so-called Conservative government. Hence, to my mind, it is not a distraction.

15457 daveyp, replying to daveyp, 7, #445 of 764 🔗

Found this image showing what absolute hypocrites the MSM are. All the complaining about people being at beaches or beauty spots over the weekend, and here you have I think 16 people all observing no social distancing, but no action taken even though the police are there too:

15479 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to daveyp, 2, #446 of 764 🔗

I don’t think anyone’s complaining that DC broke social distancing ie being closer than 2m to someone outside of his household. He broke social isolation rules because he was symptomatic.

Plus I don’t think those paps are employed by MSM are they? I think they’re all freelance.

I do hate those ridiculous photos they publish of beaches etc that are supposed to show hoardes of people.

15493 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 3, #447 of 764 🔗

I’m not on about Cumming, couldn’t care less about the guy, the whole thing is just a distraction from the real issues.

Even if they are freelance they are still part of the MSM as that is why they are there to supply the MSM. It’s not like the MS are saying to them, if you don;t social distance then we won’t buy the photos from you, they are actively encouraging these photographers to go out and harass the public.

15511 ▶▶ IanE, replying to daveyp, #448 of 764 🔗

Actually, though, the police have stated that they cannot police social distancing as it is guidance rather than the law!

15539 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to daveyp, 1, #449 of 764 🔗

“All animals are equal but some are more equal than others”

The more equal animals can forego the social distancing measures that the less equal animals must adhere to.

15459 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 20, #450 of 764 🔗

Shopping sounds fun, you can look but not touch? I think our government and their over zealous scientists need their heads examining. This cannot work and frankly I don’t want to live my life in fear that someone may have touched the dress, book or handbag that I want to buy. Therein lies madness!

15464 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #451 of 764 🔗

There was an interesting thread here about enforcement, and whether the guidelines actually are enforceable, I think the Local Authority are meant to have a proper person issue a notice, and this blanket issuing of guidance is a way to avoid fessing up that they are not doing that, so nobody is actually obliged to do it. I hope some umbrella trade associations get on the case and issue some counter guidance. Although I was chatting an HR professional yesterday, they are having a big increase in worker grievances (e.g. working at my dining room table gave me a bad back, I refuse to come to work in such unsafe conditions) so some businesses have two problems, hysterical customers and vexatious staff.

15492 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to BecJT, 6, #452 of 764 🔗

Those who work in the public sector normally have to carry out a DSE (Display Screen Equipment) assessment before they can commence work in the office, which they will not be able to do at home as they probably don’t have a work chair (gas filled), proper desk, and adjustable monitor (most have just been sent home with a laptop).

So, I can see a multitude of worker grievances coming in, and having worked for councils and the NHS you can guarantee there will be a shed loads of them who will be taking advantage of this.

15496 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to daveyp, #453 of 764 🔗

Yep this person said that yesterday, they are private sector, but she said they’ve spent a fortune issuing staff with as much kit for home working as possible to try and head off complaints (and I’m not against genuine complaints about crap conditions, but I’m freelance, my gas filled office chair cost me thirty quid!)

15623 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to BecJT, #454 of 764 🔗

Also, another thing with everyone working from home. HMRC is going to be overwhelmed with all the tax relief claims for working from home expenses. Just think how many additional Self Assessment forms they are going to have to process.

15557 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BecJT, 1, #455 of 764 🔗

Been bring this up for a while with councils, trade bodies, my MP etc and no meaningful replies so FOI requests gone in.

15485 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 11, #456 of 764 🔗

If anything else this will accelerate the demise of the high street even more. It was already dying (in my area it has been dead to the point that there is hardly any local business here). I was reminded of those articles about the likes of Waterstone’s and Kurt Geiger planning to put their things in “quarantine” after a customer has touched them. Who would want to go to their shops with that sort of treatment?

The government will only have themselves to blame as these shops go under and the likes of Amazon go from strength to strength off the back of this.

15497 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #457 of 764 🔗

Iceland said that their home deliveries had increased from 100,000 a week to 500,000 a week since the lockdown.

This is great business for the supermarkets as they can potentially get rid of the supermarkets and just trade from warehouses, and they can lay of loads of staff from the stores.

15543 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to daveyp, #458 of 764 🔗

The trouble with home deliveries is with regards to fresh fruit and veg as well as meat. How can I trust that they are delivering me decent stuff and not one that’s manky and only fit for the bin?

15626 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Bart Simpson, #459 of 764 🔗

I tend to find that, the fruit and veg go off a lot faster than choosing it yourself.

15508 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #460 of 764 🔗

Yes, I think that the government are systematically trying to remove all possible reasons for us to leave our houses.

15540 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, 2, #461 of 764 🔗

And kill off SMEs. Jesus wept

15463 TJS7, replying to TJS7, 11, #462 of 764 🔗

Now there is talk of ‘local lockdowns’. Will the government ever give this obscene power up?

15465 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to TJS7, 5, #463 of 764 🔗

No, the “Our plan to rebuild: The UK Government’s COVID-19 recovery strategy” shows that this lockdown will last years, it states there is no way out of it apart from a vaccine or other health treatments!

15475 ▶▶ Mark, replying to TJS7, 9, #464 of 764 🔗

This idea of “local lockdowns” is a disaster that needs to be stamped on, stat!

15486 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Mark, 11, #465 of 764 🔗

The whole ‘lockdown’ need to be stamped on, not just the ‘local lockdown’.

15468 Adele Bull, replying to Adele Bull, 4, #466 of 764 🔗

So the “garden party / social bubble” thing? Who is policing this? Will it be part of the track and trace app on your phone, so that they can see how many people you’ve been near and where? 😳

15477 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Adele Bull, #467 of 764 🔗

Gov say the app is voluntary, so it won’t be the app. It’ll be the 20,000 track and tracers plus the curtain twitchers.

15494 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Adele Bull, 6, #468 of 764 🔗

Another thing, the app doesn’t work, so they are having to re-develop it, or looking at going down the de-centralised route now.

If it’s anything like Electronic Patient records, expect it to never be released and then scrapped in 10 years time at a cost of £10 million to the taxpater!

15502 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to daveyp, 2, #469 of 764 🔗

£10 million per year would probably be closer to the mark!

15627 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to IanE, 1, #470 of 764 🔗

Sorry, it was £10 billion lost when EPR was scrapped, not £10 million.

15589 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Adele Bull, 4, #471 of 764 🔗

It’s all fucking nonsense. Deliberately so. Go to one ‘social bubble’ of 10 people or whatever number they pluck out of their arse.. then simply move to another one, then another one.

No fucker can have any idea how many you are a part of. Hilarious

Mind you, given the number of fearful sheep so called friends who have infuriated me for the past few months I might not even have 10 friends anymore 🤣

15476 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #472 of 764 🔗

Odd things happening around the Cummings story. Trevor Kavanagh in the Sun is extremely pro-Cummings to an almost embarrassing degree, while at the same time telling us that Britain could return to normal tomorrow without any risk.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11706630/dominic-cummings-triumphant-critics-floundering/

Does he see no irony in supporting one of the chief architects of the policy he now criticises?

Comments in the Spectator are very pro-Cummings. Peston points out the (frankly delicious) irony of anti-establishment Cummings being forced to describe his ‘walk in the woods’ being entirely on private land on his father’s estate. But the commenters are more concerned with the idea that Peston, too, comes from a privileged background – which is to miss the point completely.

Cummings is the chief architect of the ruination of this country – or so his reputation suggests – and could persuade the prime minister to end the lockdown tomorrow. Yet we find it dragging on theatrically. He should be pilloried at every opportunity.

15482 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #473 of 764 🔗

We need to get over this focus on Cummings, it is stopping everyone’s focus on ending this lockdown.

15499 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to daveyp, 2, #474 of 764 🔗

Supposing we found that Boris himself was ignoring his own rules, spending time with his parents, flying by private jet to Sweden to enjoy the bars and nightlife, and a leaked recording of him talking to Neil Ferguson, laughing at the dumb schmucks who follow social distancing.

Would it be worth ‘focusing’ on Johnson in those circumstances?

The Cummings affair is on the same continuum. By focusing on Cummings we are focusing on ending the lockdown.

15572 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Barney McGrew, #475 of 764 🔗

I disagree. It’s more like reinforcing it. You d seriously think that with him out of the way anything would change?

15697 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #476 of 764 🔗

Agree. Hitchens was complaining about how there’s all this fuss and then someone resigns and it doesn’t make any difference. But Cummings isn’t just any someone. He’s very likely to be be behind the lockdown and there’s good reason to believe he controls Johnson and therefore the whole country.

15509 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to daveyp, 6, #477 of 764 🔗

I disagree. Whatever you think of the rules, I think most fair-minded people can see he broke them.

I quite like that the govt are not backing down on this as it is making people angry and question what they are being told. I think (hope) the tide is turning against this lockdown

15506 ▶▶ A13, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #478 of 764 🔗

UK Column news on Monday had a story about Cummings going to Barnard Castle to visit GlaxoSmithKline, who are partnering with French Sanofi. Did he go there to discuss the vaccine?
I’m not sure if they have anything to back the story up, but it would be interesting if his ‘eye test’ drive turns out to be this.

15514 ▶▶ A13, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #479 of 764 🔗

This is a really weird article. The author seems to be claiming that Cummings is one of the top Coronapanickers.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/26/cannot-let-cummings-paranoid-fear-covid-keep-us-lockdown/

We cannot let Cummings’ paranoid fear of Covid keep us in lockdown

“His panicked reaction to catching the virus is symptomatic of the Government’s timidity”

15598 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to A13, #480 of 764 🔗

Lol… Not a chance that Cummings is a coronaphobic. He knows the truth, of course he does.

This is just the media angling their way out. More manipulation.

It’s simple to me : the government and the media know this is all bullshit. They know what we know, it’s beyond incredulous that they don’t.

15569 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Barney McGrew, #481 of 764 🔗

It doubt very much that this is entirely Cummings’ doing. Don’t forget the apocalyptic predictions of Ferguson, plus all the other scientific advisors on the SAGE group.
Cummings and Boris were both for the “herd immunity” approach, keeping the UK open, while the MSM were freaking out about that, demanding a different strategy, and they were then almost forced into the lockdown with predictions of half a million dead if they didn’t.

15788 ▶▶ Marion, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #482 of 764 🔗

Yes, the commentators below the line on articles in the Spectator concerning Cummings are very disappointing- they all seem to miss the point entirely, i.e he is, as you say, behind all this horror.

15495 JBW, replying to JBW, 16, #483 of 764 🔗

Ok, what the actual f..k?

I know this is not brand new information, it’s been talked about since the weekend, but I have just listened to by far the longest report on the issue I have encountered, which was a 5 minute segment on Today, with Justin Webb interviewing Prof Talkinghead about the difficulties AstraZeneca/Oxford are having testing their vaccine. They quite openly discussed how there is so little virus in the community that they need volunteers to take the vaccine, then get DELIBERATELY infected with Covid, to test it’s efficacy.  They interviewed two volunteers, and there is a website where you can sign up. At no point did the Prof, or Webb, join the very short line of dots between this discussion and the madness of the lockdown policy. When you have to deliberately infect people with a disease because you literally can’t find it in the country you’re trying to immunise, have your priorities gone a bit out of whack?

If AZ, with a multibillion pound incentive to find Covid, but can’t, then wtf is our Government doing???

15498 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to JBW, 4, #484 of 764 🔗

Lining theirs and their friends pockets most probably who are share holders or have an interest in these pharmaceutical and health companies.

A New Scientist article on a COVID-19 vaccine said there is only a 6% chance of any vaccine working as well, and the quickest ever vaccine created and tested was for Ebola that took 5.4 years, with the average vaccine being 10.7 years to create ad test!

15501 ▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to JBW, 7, #485 of 764 🔗

Yes, I thought exactly the same as I listened to the interview this morning. I don’t think we will even need a vaccine at this rate as the virus is clearly and quite naturally on the wane.

15725 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Locked down and out, 1, #486 of 764 🔗

What makes you think we ever did?

15563 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JBW, 3, #487 of 764 🔗

There are many things I cannot fathom in this sorry tale of ‘the science’. For the record I should state that although I am a scientist by background, as is my husband, I am not now part of that field. Ferguson’s model was flawed as much for how the model handled the data as the provenance of the data itself. The Oxford teams have been sidelined almost completely, and I do not know why. The Jenner Institute, headed by Prof Adrian Hill, is world-renowned for its vaccine-related work in a whole host of areas. He is married to Prof Gupta. Her model is a well calibrated and easy to replicate standard epidemiological model. One has to assume, when she went public with the idea there could be up to 50% immunity in the population already, prior to the announcement of lockdown, she based that on something more than a whim. She had ready access to a very itinerant population of students on her doorstep, and a husband and other colleagues in her wider circle (Carl Henighan and his team). Now, Hill’s team running the vaccine trial is saying there are not enough active virus carriers to run the trial. In other words, the virus has already more or less died out. Not what big Pharma and its billionaire endorsers want to hear. So, back to therapeutics and the newly announced Remdesivir gravy train. Perhaps this is an enormous coincidence, but GSK’s site is on the outskirts of Barnard Castle – see earlier post and link to Craig Murray’s recent blog.

15663 ▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #488 of 764 🔗

Therapeutics would be acceptable if idiot governments want to hand over our cash for that instead of a warp speed insufficiently tested vaccine. Where money is involved I think all options are on the table. Hydroxycloroquine is out of patent I believe so too cheap to make money. But the big bucks are probably still in regular vaccines so I suspect another superbug of unknown origin is on it’s way.- especially given that it’s on public record that Fauci funded Wuhan lab research and is also affiliated with GAVI etc etc. Pardon me for being cynical but this seems to be how the world works.

15707 ▶▶▶ JBW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #489 of 764 🔗

I appreciate your various replies, but perhaps I wasn’t being clear. I wasn’t wanting to raise a question about who might benefit, fiscally or otherwise, from a vaccine, or get lost in the DC cul-de-sac. I just wanted to know if anyone better connected than me could find a way to ask the government this simple question: Medics working on blood plasma treatment for the sick (Today program yesterday), and medics working on vaccines, are both complaining of the lack of sick or infected people in the UK to use as guinea pigs. Yet we’re in a gigantic lockdown protecting us from a disease, victims of which they cannot find in sufficient numbers for their trials. Why?

15505 IanE, replying to IanE, 8, #490 of 764 🔗

Well, I am starting to wonder about the extraordinary damage the government are doing to our economy. Is it, I keep asking myself, possible that a reasonably intelligent group could be doing this without realising how devastating it is going to be?

Surely not! Which means that it must be part of their plans – maybe this is all part of Net Zero aims, accounting, in particular, for the targeted attacks on tourism and pretty much anything else that might tempt us to leave our homes.

15513 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to IanE, 3, #491 of 764 🔗

Indeed. Is there anything about this situation that isn’t compatible with that theory?

15525 ▶▶ Adrian, replying to IanE, 15, #492 of 764 🔗

The “reasonably intelligent” part is dubious. Unless psychopathic is assimilated to intelligent.

In Switzerland lockdown was pretty much over since two weeks now, well except stupid anti-social distancing and some mandatory muzzle…aaah mask wearing in some shops. Opening was supposed to be done very gradually with some tight schedule, schools to start may 11th with children kept apart at 2 meters, hair salons and garden centers, restaurants, other shops to follow on may 25th, with pretty much everything else to be opened on june 8th. However it was clear that the damage to economy was already on a nuclear bomb level so the government scrambled and in a matter of days decided to open everything. “Social distancing” in schools was completely abandoned because completely untenable due to space requirements. To no avail. Just received a letter from my kids school that attendance is mandatory. Seems people do not want to send their kids to school due to fear of infection. Duh, after months of MSM scaremongering what did they expect?

Whatever restaurants opened, are now closing due to lack of customers. Whatever shops opened, half of them are now closing again. People either don’t go because they are scared of infection, don’t want to put up with muzzle wearing, or decided to stick to essentials due to economic fears. Tourist industry is completely gone. Thousands of jobs from manufacturing/industrial are announced gone daily. Did they really think that after a few months of almost everything stopped it is going to be like just restarting your car? Put some oil, charge the battery and the it runs as usual?

15534 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Adrian, 4, #493 of 764 🔗

Heavens, that is disappointing. I thought the Swiss were a bit more sensible. I guess crowd psychology holds everywhere.

15555 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Adrian, 3, #494 of 764 🔗

Looks like even the sensible Swiss are also committing economic hara-kiri. Very sad.

15756 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Adrian, #495 of 764 🔗

That’s fascinating. I have a particular downer on the pathetic UK government and people at the moment, but maybe we’re not alone.

15532 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IanE, 4, #496 of 764 🔗

Think about where all the money borrowed will go. The money doesn’t just disappear. There should be an enquiry on who ends up richer because of all this but that will never happen.

And no it doesn’t have to be a global conspiracy for people to have vested interests in making a problem seem worse than it is to profit from it.

15606 ▶▶ ianp, replying to IanE, 2, #497 of 764 🔗

Yep. Of course it is. What they need is for the public to accept the policy… Probably as some sort of ‘compromise’ after this disaster

I am not against reducing carbon footprint in some way at all. Hell, for example, I would buy a fucking affordable electric car if i wasn’t paranoid about running out of juice after a couple of hundred miles, and having to wait 6 hours to charge the thing. Solve that, and what’s the difference to normal cars?

Tourism, air travel – that is simply an attack on our freedom and lives

15616 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to ianp, 2, #498 of 764 🔗

Apart from the thinking that electric cars may do more harm than good:

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2018/05/15/are-electric-cars-worse-for-the-environment-000660/

And the child labour in the cobalt mines for the batteries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh2R7UyRyYY

15783 ▶▶▶▶ Marion, replying to Sarigan, #499 of 764 🔗

And the fact that no one in government is honest about where the electricity is coming from, as wind and solar really, really won’t come anywhere near to providing enough power, and are, in fact, to all intents and purposes functionally useless. More than anything Johnson’s ‘green’ agenda makes me crazy-mad; I can’t believe such foolishness.

15515 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 27, #500 of 764 🔗

Woke up today feeling really, really rotten. Probably one of my worst days during this prison sentence.

Three months ago I was a stable (I say stable because I have a history of mental health issues but I kept them in check), independent 21-year-old with a job and a master’s degree/further graduate job lined up. I regularly visited my partner at university via the train each weekend while he completed his studies and we talked about our future together. We’d go shopping, to restaurants and to the cinema together – very normal, very boring things that we all took for granted once upon a time. We often had a routine in my town where we’d go to our favourite shops in a certain order and then go to Pret for lunch – half ironically, we used to laugh at the middle classness of it but the food is (or was) nice there – and then go for a long walk after lunch. He absolutely loves photography and he’d take pictures of me all the time – I’m not a very vain person and I am insecure about the way I look so I cringed slightly at the attention but I do love the way he kept a record of all our meetings and looking back on those photos is bittersweet now. I’ve been saving money for years in various jobs etc, making lots of sacrifices in order to scrape the money together, and I finally got a fantastic deal back on a package holiday to the USA with him at the end of August for my 22nd birthday. Going abroad is a massive luxury for me and not something I take for granted – when I was growing up, all family holidays were in the UK, and I’m not one of those people who goes to Europe for minibreaks or hen dos on a whim. Last time I flew by plane was 7 years ago on a school trip, plus I’ve never been to the USA before so it was a huge thing and I was really excited and felt very lucky indeed.

Fast forward three months and I’ve lost my job, it’s uncertain as to whether my master’s degree/further graduate job is going ahead or will be seriously affected by anti-social distancing/economic crash, I’m back living with my parents and I can’t see my partner who is hundreds of miles away, also back living with his parents after his university (very stupidly, as we know) chose to shut down, with no indication of when it will reopen again. I have no idea what to do about the USA holiday, given that flights may well not actually be cancelled by the end of August but this ridiculous 14-day quarantine rule will make it incredibly impractical to go, meaning the onus is on me to cancel/reschedule and I might not get that money back if I choose to cancel myself. My independence has been snatched away – even after the lockdown is ‘over’, my independence will still be curtailed because I can’t drive and I have always relied on trains, which have now been made incredibly inaccessible by these ludicrous antisocial distancing measures, apparently part of the ‘new normal’.

My mental health is in the complete toilet – something I previously managed relatively well is now deteriorating rapidly because all the little things like seeing my partner (well quite a big thing but you get what I mean), shopping, cinema, gatherings, just the mere act of being free, were all things that made me feel more normal, things to look forward to and distract myself from the constant screaming inside my head, which has just grown louder since all those things have been snatched away indefinitely. I was seeing a therapist last year but that ended before the panicdemic started and I can’t see how it would be possible to get any further help, given that face-to-face appointments will not be allowed due to antisocial distancing. I have a friend who was getting therapy on the NHS but it’s been completely cancelled (wonder why) and she’s at the back of the waiting list again, which by now must stretch miles long with people poorly mentally affected by this sudden and indefinite prison sentence. My partner and I also argue regularly now, given that he is incredibly stressed about his future what with his university education and job prospects hanging in the balance, lack of physical and face-to-face connection, and my poor mental health means I am almost constantly irritable and depressed. I try and fight it but I am losing strength with each day that this lunacy drags on for, and I have been having some very dark suicidal thoughts for the past few weeks. We can no longer talk about or plan our future because no one knows what the hell is happening next week, let alone next year. The indefinite timescale of this and the limbo, all at the whim of around 10 different politicians vs 68 million people, makes me feel as if this is endless purgatory over which I have no control.

I look at what our leaders are doing to this country and I struggle to find reasons to live. I look at how people have been totally duped by the scare-mongering media and I lose all faith in humanity. Unless things change, either by people waking up to this hell or the government admitting they’re wrong, then any remaining hope or optimism I had will just drain away. I don’t want to live in a clinical, sanitised world where everyone wears a muzzle and treats others as an infected enemy, someone not to be trusted. A world which is socially and culturally desolate, where the state tracks your every move with its stupid tracing app and 20,000 recruited snitches, a world where you are constantly looking over your shoulder.

Apologies for the long, self-indulgent rant. I really am trying to be optimistic and have faith that human spirit will eventually prevail over his madness to get us back to the proper, real normal, and we’ll be looking back at this time in a year laughing at the ridiculousness of it all and enjoying a v-shaped economic recovery, but perhaps I am being over-optimistic. I just look at all the hellish ‘new normal’ measures our leaders have lined for us, the arrogance they have in announcing and implementing them – as if they’re enjoying having this much power over us – and that bloody government document which talked about ‘rebuilding a world around Covid-19’, and I feel as if we will be stuck like this for a very long, grey, depressing time. I miss my old life so much and would do anything to get it back. The only way out of this is through, but with forward momentum completely lacking in the government plan, we are totally, totally stuck.

15521 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Poppy, 9, #501 of 764 🔗

The psychopathic behaviour of our government is surely now flowing from the autist Cummings. Appalling and tragic and awful for so many individuals including of course your sad account. My wife is also a bit prone to depression at times and this whole thing is almost unbearable for her some days – and even I frequently (actually almost constantly now) feel dreadful despair. The future is not Orange, it is black! [Sorry, that is not very cheering, but at least we have this site to compare thoughts].

15528 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Poppy, 9, #502 of 764 🔗

Throughout history the worst atrocities against mankind have been done in the name of good.

15536 ▶▶ Louise, replying to Poppy, 16, #503 of 764 🔗

Poppy, I really feel very deeply for your situation. You didn’t serve this and you have been robbed. Your freedom and the trajectory of your future (as it was) have been taken away from you. The thing is Poppy you are so very young, intelligent and you think for yourself. You have a bright, bright future ahead of you. It’s just hard to envisage that now. Try and get yourself through one day at a time. It does feel hopeless at times but I guarantee that once normal people start to gain confidence in getting back to normal then things will start to move much faster. Yes, things might be tougher for a while but you will find a way to thrive and maybe having been through this will change you in many little ways you hadn’t thought of. Those visits to your favourite shops will be even more appreciated etc. By August the travel quarantine may have been scrapped, who knows, but if the trip has been your dream and you can manage to still go then it might be just what you need. Don’t let it eat you up Poppy, be angry if you need to but find a way to keep your spirits up for other things in your if you possible can. Speak to people, take a walk with a friend or chat to someone random but in real life. Stay off Twitter . Breath in the fresh air, sit in the sunshine. This bullshit will pass soon enough x

15550 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Poppy, 11, #504 of 764 🔗

Hang in there it will be over soon. It’s a global problem and it’s in most countries’ interests to get out of it. Once a few lead the way the rest will follow including the UK.

All those little things are what add up to the difference between a life and mental health issues so don’t take the latter too seriously. In this case it really is the whole rest of the world that’s gone mad not you.

You will look back on this in a few years and quite likely find that some chance event or other precipitated by the crisis led to something positive. Those of us who are a bit older know that this happens.

You are already learning a lot from all this about what it feels like to think for yourself when nobody else seems to be. The experience will make you stronger.

15551 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 13, #505 of 764 🔗

Very sorry to hear what you’re going through. Whilst I’m an introvert and don’t really like interacting with groups what I find unbearable is the inability to go anywhere, have a coffee, visit the V&A, go to parks and bookshops or just people watch.

I am reaching the point where I sometimes fear my own mind and I dread of what you’ve stated above, its a horrible dystopian future and one that’s not worth living for and being part of. I can now understand what would push people now to attempt much less succeed in taking their lives.

I live and hope that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that we can reclaim our lives back. However I have lost all respect for the government, if anything they should be punished for the misery that they have inflicted on us.

15562 ▶▶ James007, replying to Poppy, 7, #506 of 764 🔗

I really feel for you Poppy. The economic damage of these policies is vast, but there is a greater cost that cannot be counted. We cannot quantify the number of relationships damaged, rising mental health problems and the shattered dreams.

Every generation is being damaged. Those trying to raise young children, and you – early on in adult life with plans that have been put permanently on hold.

We are social beings, we ought to be together. We ought too be free. How inhumane to try to separate us.

15564 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Poppy, 8, #507 of 764 🔗

Poppy,
The only thing I can say is that you’re not alone in this, or in t way you feel. That’s why so many of us are on this site.
Feeling the way you do is entirely understandable and normal.
I want my life back too. Right now, i was supposed to be on a holiday on the East coast of America, but that was obviously cancelled. I’ve never been there before, and probably now never will.
I can only hope that when the new cases drop to a negligible level, sanity may restore itself, especially when other countries open up and doomsday clearly doesn’t descend. The UK will increasingly look like an insane outlier and pressure will increase to end all this.

15583 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Poppy, 7, #508 of 764 🔗

Keep posting Poppy. You are amongst like minded people here who understand your predicament.

15595 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Poppy, 9, #509 of 764 🔗

Thank you so much for all your kind comments. They have really helped me remember that it’s not just me going totally mad and I feel for all of you who are struggling as well. Massive thanks to Toby for setting up this website, a pocket of sanity amongst the madness.

15618 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Poppy, 9, #510 of 764 🔗

It’s the lack of forward momentum that’s doing me in too, and I’m twice your age!

One thing, it is not ‘mental illness’ going on with you, it’s mental good health, in that we are wired for survival, so perhaps one thing that would help is turning that belief around.

It is entirely NORMAL AND NATURAL to feel all the feelings you (and I) are feeling at the curtailment of our liberty unjustly, being severed from all the normal and natural things human beings need as social animals, and the ruining of our prospects, and financial hardship, and our dreams being taken away. It is normal to feel anxious and confused at being gaslighted, and to balk at cognitive dissonance.

You are too young to remember the Romanian orphanages scandal of I think the 80s, worth a google. In the beginnings of the fall of the iron curtain, stories started to reach the UK of these awful orphanages where babies were kept in stripped cots, with no blankets, no toys, and crucially no touch, no love, no human interaction, no eye contact, no soothing, nothing. Some were tied to the bars of the cot. Those babies withered and died. They discovered that – stop press – the human nervous system (the human “heart” if you will) needs those things to stay in equilibrium and stay alive.

Whilst I’m all for frank discussion of mental distress, not all distress is ‘unhealthy’, and I think it’s a bit of a modern issue that we tend to pathologise really normal responses to abnormal things (a bit like we slap rape victims with a diagnosis of ‘borderline personality disorder’ within weeks of the assault, instead of understanding that trauma response is a) normal and b) necessary). All these things are healthy, it’s our onboard warning system that tells us something is amiss, it’s how our brain and nervous system seeks to get back into harmony. We would not label those babies ‘mentally unwell’ (anymore than we’d label a distressed monkey locked in a lab cage, banging it’s head off the bars mentally unwell), we’d quite rightly label the cruel bastards that did it to them sick in the head!

So, perhaps you could try to ‘look after’ that bit of yourself that clearly knows what is true, is perceiving threat and danger correctly, that wants to move forwards and flourish, and has your best interests at heart, that wants to LIVE? That is the part of you that is determined to succeed, and treated right it’ll see you right for the rest of your life. xx

15635 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to BecJT, 5, #511 of 764 🔗

Thanks for your thoughtful posts BecJT

15670 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to James007, #512 of 764 🔗

Thanks, you’re welcome!

15634 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Poppy, 3, #513 of 764 🔗

Look after yourself. I am sure you are a good person. There are people who love you and will help you, as you will help them, and together you will get through this period. You have your principles and love for the truth and no one can take that away from you.

15676 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Poppy, 2, #514 of 764 🔗

Poppy, I’m with you 100%. Your writing is exquisite, and you articulate with great skill and insight what so many are going through.

You’re among friends here.

15684 ▶▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Gossamer, 4, #515 of 764 🔗

Poppy your beautifully written account had this 57 year old grump in tears. That any sane democratically elected government can do this to it’s citizens is beyond belief. Please keep going – eventually, I assure you, our position will prevail and those suffering Covid Derangement Syndrome are going to look pretty stupid.

15742 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to LGDTLK, 2, #516 of 764 🔗

They’re not sane, that’s the point. And they’re not democratically elected either since FPTP always brings a minority government. Granted the opposition would be just as bad because a control freak is a control freak, and a control freak in my book is not sane. Witness the fact that I can meet up with my friends in a car show room or a garden centre, but I can’t have a drink with them in their back garden. Not sane at all.

15677 ▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to Poppy, 6, #517 of 764 🔗

Poppy, I think there is hope. I opened my shop last weekend, with no social distancing, and it was a huge success. People came in, with smiles of wonder on their faces: “Oh my god, a real shop!”, they said. Others hovered timidly at the door, wondering if they were allowed in. “Come in, come in”, I said. “Am I allowed?” they asked? “Of course you are, it’s a shop!” I replied.

Incidentally, I’ve been trying to get my shop on to Toby’s map, but it’s taking a while. If any of you are in London and would like a corona free shopping experience and/or a chat, my shop is Epitome in Columbia Road, London E2 7RG, and it will be open from 11 a.m on Saturday and Sunday (sorry about the shameless plug, but it would be wonderful to meet any of you in person). Other shops open in the road are a flower shop, a wonderful bakery and an accessories/homeware shop.

But back to why there is hope. I went to bed last night depressed about the government’s new outpouring of delusional and dystopian drivel, but when I woke up, I found a post on Nextdoor telling me that Chapel Market, our local street market, has opened – five days before it’s “allowed”. There was a long list of supportive comments. Fifteen minutes later the post had been taken down-who knows why? – but the fact is, the market has opened early and people were delighted.

Then I read that Boris is to appear before the Commons Liaison Committee this afternoon. This may be the first time he has faced proper cross-party scrutiny?

Then I read various articles in the Telegraph: Cummings told us that he has long predicted a pandemic and been a supporter of the lockdown, and it seems to be becoming clear that he was in fact the force behind the lockdown. There is a brilliant article by Philip Johnston, who believes that the main reason Cummings went to Durham was that he was terrified of covid-19.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/26/cannot-let-cummings-paranoid-fear-covid-keep-us-lockdown/

I was convinced Cummings was behind the hellish propaganda, but I was not until now aware that he could be behind the whole thing. I believe he is hugely arrogant, borderline crazy, highly manipulative, and thinks he is better than everyone else: which goes a long way to explain the crazy, arbitrary, inhumane rules we have had to put up with for so long.

Then there are the ever increasing numbers of Tory rebels. I decided this morning that the best people to write to now – I have tried writing to No 10 (five times), the Chancellor (four times), my MP and Keir Starmer – are leading Tory backbenchers. Give those that have spoken out, even a little bit, some encouragement: Steve Baker, Iain Duncan Smith, David Davis, Teresa May, Sajid Javid, Graham Brady, Charles Walker. I’ve just heard that Jeremy Hunt has joined the criticism of Cummings. If he comes out as a sceptic, he could be someone everyone can rally around – so let’s write to him as well. Mainly write about the ridiculous and inhumane social distancing and PPE, but also about lifting the lockdown sooner.

It may also be worth writing to the Chancellor. I think he may be open to change:

ceu.enquiries@hmtreasury.gov.uk

After all, if things carry on as they are, in a few weeks time there will be no new corona cases and no corona deaths. No doubt the BBC will move to counting deaths in South America, but I can’t believe that the majority of the population and businesses will put up with this madness if there is no corona to count.

On the home front, I have some friends coming round for a drink in the garden this evening – a first since lockdown. My brother said two lots of his neighbours have been round this week, and both my 89 year old mother’s friends who used to visit every week have been round to see her.

Brendan O’Neill has said that the people must lead us out of this mess by breaking the rules and behaving normally. I think that’s still a possibility; but it would be better if we could find a leader.

15722 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to bluefreddy, 1, #518 of 764 🔗

Great to hear about your shop, let’s hope lots more follow suit and the best of luck to you.

I don’t agree about a leader. All it takes is for people to refuse to follow the ‘guidance’ and ‘rules’ and to support any business which gets done for having the bottle to pioneer a return to common sense.

We old lefties call it critical mass 🙂

However, If you insist on a leader – you’ll do!!

15798 ▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 2, #519 of 764 🔗

It will end, Poppy.. You sill get your life back. Hang on in there.

And by God, there sill be a reckoning.

15526 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #520 of 764 🔗

Can the BBC sink any lower?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/stories-52731624

Not an ounce of credibility and only towards the end do you read that the unfortunate hospitalised lady has sleep apnea and asthma. He doesn’t exactly look like a fit and healthy man either. As for the couple who drank fish tank cleaner!!

15558 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sarigan, 3, #521 of 764 🔗

I didn’t bother reading the whole article.
Does it mention that the fish tank cleaner lady was being investigated by the police for possible homicide?

15612 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lms23, #522 of 764 🔗

Nope, no mention of that.

15708 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, #523 of 764 🔗

Can the BBC sink any lower?

Without clicking on the link … Oh yes, very definitely.

15535 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #524 of 764 🔗

https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013/status/1265550265589137408/photo/1

I think it is worth following Michael Levitt’s twitter today

Above is his calculation of deaths according to Fergusson happening in China,Hubei,Diamond Express,US and UK

Look at the bottom scaling factor to Diamond Princess death and Wuhan death and see how the figures are way more correct than Fergusson. He never factored in the true death rate among the elderly.

15541 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #525 of 764 🔗

https://twitter.com/MLevitt_NP2013/status/1265550269213007872/photo/3

Doesn’t this age structure of deaths look familiar?

Yes,China’s very much like we are seeing now everywhere in Europe US.

And the moron’s in charge of our public health response could have had this figures beforehand and adapted it to their pandemic response ie no lockdown and protect the elderly!

15546 Cruella, replying to Cruella, 13, #526 of 764 🔗

I’m glad that some commerce will be able to open soon, I hope that this will allow some to resurrect their businesses and some to keep their jobs. I however won’t be going anywhere that enforces the two metre distancing rule or any other interpretations of governmental guidance. I don’t mind individual weirdos with gas masks and filthy blue ‘magic’ gloves but I find the real problem lies with the companies that make you herd, stand on the x, pay without cash and generally treat you like a leper. They are alienating their customers. So when I’m treated like this, I tell them I don’t like it and that I will not return until they behave with respect. So opening businesses won’t solve anything, because people won’t come and they’ll close again for good. One goes out in order to be social, if you take that element away then people won’t go out, and of course we won’t have any money to anyhow. What about roller rinks? My daughter current favourite leisure activity, swimming pools, youth theatre, any theatre? Are these gone for good? Rugby,wrestling? What have we done to ourselves?

15556 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Cruella, 6, #527 of 764 🔗

Neither will I Cruella. It’s just a nonsense, and highly invasive of personal liberty. I won’t condone it by taking part in it.

15568 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Cruella, 5, #528 of 764 🔗

I agree Cruella,I won’t use any business that has bowed to these social alienation measures,it’s completely abnormal and quite frankly insane.It seems that large concerns are implementing this nonsense with apparent glee whilst small businesses are being forced into it by local councils.Are the Tescos etc of this world being financially rewarded by government for using bizarre people control systems ?,I can’t think of any other reason they would be prepared to treat their customers with so much contempt.

15609 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cruella, 2, #529 of 764 🔗

The problem is that the business owners will be fined if they do not demonstrate adherence to the measures. As a business owner, I have already received the guidelines and would rather keep working from home than subject myself and my customers to them.

Also there will be many happy to report non-conformers:

https://www.coronavirus-business-complaint.service.gov.uk/

15724 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, 1, #530 of 764 🔗

fined … guidelines …

I’m not an expert, but would have thought they’d need to be laws for them to impose fines ?

15548 Lms23, 9, #531 of 764 🔗

Meanwhile, over in the US:

https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/34-states-had-higher-death-rate-from-2018-flu-than-coronavirus/

“34 States Had Higher Death Rate From 2018 Flu Than Coronavirus

In 2018 we had a very bad flu season and tens of thousands of people died all over the country.
Most of you, including me, didn’t even notice it happened. In fact, the media barely covered the 2018 flu season at all. I don’t ever remember seeing a daily tally of flu infections or daily deaths from the flu or media members and politicians lecturing me to never leave my house again. And I certainly don’t remember any events being canceled in this country. Heck, I don’t remember any expert models forecasting deaths or any politicians blaming each other for the death toll either.
Put simply, I don’t remember any major national discussion about the tens of thousands of flu deaths in 2018.

You probably don’t either.

That’s because the media — and as a result the general public and the politicians — mostly ignored those deaths. Probably because while all deaths are tragic, 2.8 million people die every year in this country, that’s 7500 a day, 50,000 a week.

This, of course, contrasts immensely with the way the media has covered the deaths from the coronavirus. Even right now, as tragic as the death toll is, the number of people who have died from the coronavirus is pretty similar to the number who died from the flu in 2018. And neither the flu nor the coronavirus death toll is likely to substantially alter the year end death toll, which is likely to end up around 2.8 million like it does every year.

Yet this year we completely abandoned all logic and reason and fell victim to fear porn.”

Read the article, especially the comparison of deaths between 4 Democrat states which were closed, and 4 Republican states which remained open. Hint: Democrat states, population 51.11 million, deaths 43,679; Republican population 72.79 million, deaths 6,987.

15554 Lms23, 8, #532 of 764 🔗

And here’s another one from the US that i noticed yesterday:

https://mynorthwest.com/1889564/rantz-gun-shot-victims-washington-coronavirus-deaths/

“Washington state counts gun shot victims as coronavirus related deaths, state public health officials admit.

This method of counting coronavirus deaths, which could pad the numbers, has incredible implications. It doesn’t just artificially increase the death rate. It is used by Governor Jay Inslee to keep the economy shut down longer than may be necessary.

These findings were first reported by the Freedom Foundation, which now finds itself the target of Inslee’s bizarrely-expressed ire.

Padding the Washington coronavirus death data
In a telephone press briefing last week, public health officials with the Washington State Department of Health (DOH) acknowledge their data collection is unusual.

“So our method that we use to give up-to-date counts related to COVID death is not our usual process for how we track data for deaths in Washington,” Dr. Katie Hutchison, Health Statistics Manager for DOH. “We had to modify what we normally do in order to quickly meet the data and informational needs of the pandemic. We’re aware that there is some confusion about how this works and whether or not this modified process is accurate.”

It seems obvious that their data is not accurate. They imply as much: “Our dashboard numbers do include any death to a person that has tested positive to COVID-19.”

That means, if a COVID-19 patient dies of a gun shot wound or in a car crash, the data lists that patient as a coronavirus death. If a tree falls on a coronavirus patient and kills them? It’s listed as a coronavirus death.”

Colorado was doing the same, and there was a public outcry when a man who’d died in a drink-drive accident, and who was severely over the normal alcohol limit at the time, was counted as a CV19 death.
The state was forced to reevaluate its figures, and the death toll from CV19 went down by 25%.

I’ve seen anecdotal evidence of similar things happening here, ie too many deaths are counted as CV19 when they’re merely coincidental.

15559 karate56, replying to karate56, 15, #533 of 764 🔗

After reading the governments 50 page pile of shit yesterday, I’m at a loss to see what it is they’re trying to achieve. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, nor believe any flying about and looking at this government I simply cant see that they have the intelligence or ability for all this to be anything other than the result of the greatest incompetence in the history of mankind. Someone yesterday mentioned this was part of a coup but for what? Are you telling me those twats in cabinet are part of some bigger picture? They don’t have the brains for it, they’re like the shittest gang in school you never wanted to be associated with.
What is bizarre is the pursuit of social distancing. They’re so entrenched in it that they believe a vaccine is the only way out, which will never happen. This virus looks finished, eminent scientists are saying so, the WHO is saying no second wave more and more so why the pursuit of social distancing? I genuinely don’t buy it as a conspiracy so is it because government genuinely cant see that this virus is dead or dying/no worse than others we live with? It has to be sheer incompetence and woeful management/politics as they not competent to have ulterior motives.

15570 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karate56, 7, #534 of 764 🔗

And they don’t stop to think that there has never been a vaccine for the common cold and an effective one for the flu. I get the feeling that they’re refusing to admit that they have made a catastrophic error and so continue to dig themselves into an even deeper hole in search of the magic mythical vaccine.

This lot are even more incompetent than those explorers who were looking for the Fountain of Youth or El Dorado or the kingdom of Prester John.

15608 ▶▶▶ karate56, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #535 of 764 🔗

It seems they’ve invested so much in the policies to counter this virus that they can’t and won’t stop. If this thing dies out or becomes benign, they’ve spent so much and invested so much in society change they cant be seen to have failed or overreacted. However, if they don’t dismantle this dystopia they’ve set up there will be massive social and political unrest, were already seeing it. Even if they do lift things, the damage done already is astronomical.

15672 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to karate56, #536 of 764 🔗

Well said. I’ve said further up above that I won’t be surprised if we’re setting ourselves up for rioting later in the year. The damage has already been done and the longer they wait to lift lockdown and social distancing the more the economy will tank until people who have lost their jobs and livelihoods get fed up and take to the streets.

15599 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to karate56, 3, #537 of 764 🔗

Like you, I always think cock up, rather than conspiracy, a conspiracy would require a vast web of clever people, not sure that’s possible on this scale. For sure I believe it’s an opportunity for some interested watchers and lobbying interests, but I don’t believe it’s a coup (we might end up in the same place, but from sheer incompetence rather than design).

It’s political and moral cowardice imho (on both sides of the house, I mean our opposition aren’t exactly opposing are they, which is their effing job!).

I’m reading a book called ‘The Blunders of our Governments’ – group think and confirmation bias feature heavily. I think they are now like the Nixon administration before the lid blew, deeply suspicious of outsiders, overly confident they are going to get away with it, extremely paranoid, each fearful of his own reptuation, high on arrogance, and nobody around them brave enough to say ‘excuse me Minister …’ and for the first time in history, contending with social media that’s now jumped off the internet.

I think part of the closed loop we’re now at the mercy of is the press and the opposition, I hate Cummings, but as the last couple of days have shown, nobody is giving them an inch. I still marvel how Labour’s strategy is full support of a Tory policy, only ‘better’. It’s absolutely barking mad.

15657 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to BecJT, 2, #538 of 764 🔗

Personally, I don’t think conspiracy either, but I do think they (mainly Cummings perhaps) have seen that it is a convenient way to further other priorities: possibly the Boris/Symonds Net Zero aims.

15632 ▶▶ Julian, replying to karate56, 3, #539 of 764 🔗

I don’t think they are either clever enough or have balls big enough for it to be a conspiracy. It’s just cowardice, vanity and incompetence.

15656 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to karate56, 5, #540 of 764 🔗

I wish people would stop saying ‘I’m not a conspiracy theorist’ as if they are afraid of catching some effing disease (sic). A conspiracy is a conspiracy, like WMD. The label was invented as a pejorative so that people wouldn’t want to be identified with it. Downside is that no-one believes what is happening in front of their eyes. Look at the thread above about schoolchildren suffering abusive restraints by going back to school. Unthinkable even five years ago. A conspiracy doesn’t have to be a coup, it can be opportunistic. Summat like The Panama Papers for example. ‘Oh look, this virus has come along: great opportunity to put our more repressive, controlling instincts to good use.’

15691 ▶▶▶ karate56, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 2, #541 of 764 🔗

Either way you interpret it, i don’t believe it. I believe its catastrophic overreaction and mismanagement, exacerbated by what the world has become – a totalitarian nanny state where no deaths of any description are allowed, even if it results in other deaths…

15735 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to karate56, #542 of 764 🔗

Fair enough. But then I don’t see rioting and unrest either. The majority it seems, and I say this with heavy heart, are voluntarily accepting these restrictions. I see no resistance.

15744 ▶▶▶▶▶ karate56, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #543 of 764 🔗

I believe there will be reaction, the disaster facing those blind to the effects we’ll face maybe haven’t been exposed yet – lost jobs, furlough ending, loss of freedoms, etc. They’re still living it up at the states expense, which when it ends has to make them realise they’re fucked if they don’t react

15692 ▶▶▶ Max, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #544 of 764 🔗

The definition of conspiracy is that a group of individuals come together in secret to make a hidden plan to achieve their objective. If there is no plan and/or the objectives are transparent then there is no conspiracy.
The Panama Papers were not a conspiracy, they were a list of individuals who had engaged in organised tax evasion, but there was no evidence to indicate they had planned it together in advance.
What there often is are powers that are being exercised by individuals or narrow groups in their own interests, but that’s not a conspiracy, it’s just how society works. Otherwise you can argue any interest group is a conspiracy, from the WI to the RAC to Vote Leave.

15721 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #545 of 764 🔗

Downside is that no-one believes what is happening in front of their eyes.

This.

15659 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to karate56, 3, #546 of 764 🔗

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity

Hanlon’s razor still as sharp as ever

15723 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edgar Friendly, -1, #547 of 764 🔗

i.e. as blunt as it ever was.

15736 ▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to JohnB, #548 of 764 🔗

Bet you’re fun after a pint or three.

15766 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edgar Friendly, 2, #549 of 764 🔗

CHance would be a fine thing – will buy you one when the pubs open again !

Nah, I just don’t like some snappy sounding aphorism being accepted as gospel on no grounds whatsoever. 🙂 If nothing else, it gives huge licence to the malicious …

15773 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to JohnB, 1, #550 of 764 🔗

Fair do’s. I’m not a fan myself of trotting out stale sayings and thinking they sound clever, but just thought that one suitable in response to the original comment.

Thanks for the virtual pint. The next round is on me!

One day soon.. that first drink will be heaven, i hope…

15720 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to karate56, 1, #551 of 764 🔗

What would need to be added to the current situation before you decide there actually is a conspiracy ?

House arrest, cashlessness, restricted travel, ongoing news management, a wrecked economy, tracking, mandated cruelty to children, vaccinations ? Just curious …

15727 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, 1, #552 of 764 🔗

Yes, it beats me why people are still not understanding what is really going on. It seems like wilful blindness to me. Look at China and their social control – the envy of Western governments. None of this happened by accident and, no, I do not have a tin-foil hat.

This was never really about a virus, people simply must wake up – now!

15738 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to JohnB, #553 of 764 🔗

Consistency.

When it plays out the same way across the world, then maybe you’ll have a point. Until then it looks like rank incompetence. Not saying there isn’t anything fishy going on, but the main brunt of the effects are so wildly different from place to place, i’d have a hard time finding a pattern in any of it beyond a web of interconnected globalised interest groups trying to give blanket advice for the many diverse situations countries find themselves in.

16363 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edgar Friendly, #554 of 764 🔗

Why would they tip their hand by being consistent ? That would be dumb, having enforcers in nwo uniform on street corners in every country. Theirs is a long term project, and they are not stupid. Psychopathic, ignorant, heartless, unaware, yes. But not stupid.

These are the people who bring us illegal wars, torture, people trafficking, organ harvesting, mass starvation, and untreated real diseases that kill millions annually. Most people are nice, and so cannot comprehend how evil the bad guys can be. This is one of their (the bad guys’) main advantages. I however am so wicked I can see right through them. 🙂

The broad themes have been similar world-wide – lockups, distancing, tracking, travel restrictions, vaccines. Get them out there, get people familiar. Then ease off, and bring them back one at a time when “necessary”.

15740 ▶▶▶ karate56, replying to JohnB, #555 of 764 🔗

Are you saying you think the government or darker powers were waiting for just this moment? For a pandemic to conveniently arrive to enable them to put pre prepared totalitarian plans into action? I’m sorry but I can’t give them the credit for being able to implement a plan of that fore thought.
You can have enforced lockdown and all those things were suffering you mention but why is it a conspiracy?

16366 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karate56, #556 of 764 🔗

Quite probably. The pandemic didn’t conveniently arrive, it was a manufactured media-driven crisis.

(I wouldn’t give governments credit for being able to tie their shoelaces either. Darker powers it is, sadly.).

It’s been their stated agenda for decades. Now they’ve reached dry run / phase 1. Second wave, or newer deadlier virus, they will maybe go for large piles of bodies, and troops on the streets.

15771 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to JohnB, 1, #557 of 764 🔗

Also, thinking about it a bit more, the mandated wearing of face coverings is the absolute worst thing that could happen for the people in charge of a society in the early stages of rolling out automated facial recognition surveillance systems. It totally defeats it, therefore making it useless. It’s now basically normalised behaviour to be anonymous in public. Bad news for the security services.

16367 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edgar Friendly, #558 of 764 🔗

Fairly sure the latest systems only need a tiny area around the eyes. But I could be wrong.

15576 Biker, 8, #559 of 764 🔗

Cummings isn’t the chief architect of anything. This lockdown is being forced on the the planet by people you don’t know. This is never going away, the total reduction of the consumer society is underway. No traveling, no contact with others, no small business.

In five years time we will have an underground resistance fighting for freedom. It’ll be great. I’m gonna ride my bike around while looking like Gary Numan from the Warriors Album.

We’ll be fighting to get people out of the work camps, they’ll be black market food, no petrol but you won’t want to go anywhere anyway because of the road blocks and the wrist bracket link to your DNA by the “vaccine” will be able to give you electric shocks if you leave the house without permission. Fat people will be forced to lose weight by being only allowed to buy certain foods with their phone bank account and made to attend physical retraining centres. Smokers and Drinkers will be similarly dealt with. Artists, musicians authors etc who say anything other than the party line will be dealt with severely as causing thoughts of ones own is a direct threat to the safety of the public. Children will not attend school because we don’t need any more smart people we don’t need any more people at all. The aim is to reduced the population.

We are to be confined to our homes and most of us will be living on an allowance from the government. The vaccine for young people will leave them sterile in most cases. Some families will be exempt from this. The criteria for being one of these families will be kept a secret and you’re probably not gonna find out what it is.

It don’t matter if you believe in Climate Change or not because the fact is the people who are doing this do and their plan is to stop the industrialisation of the planet with vastly reduced numbers of people. Not in fifty years or twenty years but now. Be thankful if you’re in the UK because Africa, India, China, Middle East and America are gonna get wild real soon.

The vast cyber prison is in place and there ain’t no tunnels out, you can’t climb the wall and escape, there’s no sneaking anyway. Just being near anyone while you’re not wearing the bracelet will cause you to be noticed and arrested by a team of Community Unit Non-person Trackers (C.U.N.T.’s). There is nowhere to run.

Still the sun has got it’s hat on, which sun i’m not so sure since there seems to be three of them at the moment but that’s entirely normal, apparently it’s an optical illusion. The four Bikers of the Apocalypse and playing Motorhead on the Trumpet. The Fat Lady is singing via FaceTime. We won’t be passing the Dutchie from the left hand side.

Don’t be safe, and ignore Sting’s advice when he says Don’t Stand So Close To Me come up and shake hands if we meet someplace further on down the road.

15579 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 7, #560 of 764 🔗

I’m getting confused. I read online yesterday reports that Dr Maria Neira, Director of Public Health and Environment at the WHO, is saying that the WHO is increasingly confident that a second wave of the virus is unlikely. This is reported today in the Daily Express. Today, on the other hands, there are screaming reports from the WHO saying that a second wave is “almost certain” and it’s a matter of when not if, and warning countries to unlock at a snail’s pace etc etc. One minute I am buoyed up, hours later depressed. All from the same organisation. What should be believed?

15580 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Gillian, 7, #561 of 764 🔗

The WHO have constantly changed their position on which country had the best approach to the virus, more than I change my underpants, so I wouldn’t trust anything that they say.

15603 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Poppy, 2, #562 of 764 🔗

Provide many answers and you can always say you said the correct one.

15588 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Gillian, 5, #563 of 764 🔗

Obfuscation is what they are doing, so that the truth can’t be identified.

15654 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to daveyp, 1, #564 of 764 🔗

And, when the history is written, they can pick and choose which comment to report!

15646 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Gillian, 3, #565 of 764 🔗

I posted this above on another thread: From Knut Wittkowski ( a sane voice in all this insanity): ‘Shutting down schools, driving the economy against the wall – there was no reason for it. The only reason that this nonsense now goes on and on, and people are inventing things like this ‘second wave’, which is going to force us to change society and never live again, is that the politicians are afraid of admitting an error.’

15705 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gillian, -1, #566 of 764 🔗

Certainly nobody working for the WHO ! 🙂

Maybe not a good thing if ‘what if’ scenarios you read on the interweb have such an effect on your state of mind, Gillian ? I’d go for beer, reading a book, working/sitting in the garden, or extra naps instead.

15581 James007, replying to James007, 7, #567 of 764 🔗

Pleased that son can return to his preschool. I hope he returns to the happy boy that we used to know and love in time. He’s been so depressed, won’t talk and will spend house on end just lying on the floor with his favorite toy. We never used to have daily meltdowns, requiring 2 people to get him bathed and dressed for bed. One of our friends is not a covid puritan, and we let him play with her son. Sad to see that both children did not really interact. For both of them, they hadn’t seen another child in about 8 weeks.

Just reading rules and regulations for the preschool. We have to tick each of the regulations, and sign to say that we will comply. One of the conditions is that we must “comply with ALL government advice. ALL your family and contacts must practice social distancing”. Only one parent is allowed to drop the child off. The child must not take any toys with him. The child must comply with the social bubble policy, or won’t be able to attend. PPE to be used for any nappy changes. Only one parent allowed to drop off who must not enter the building, but leave the child at the checkpoint. etc….. for a couple of pages…. slightly down hearted. But we will sign.

15587 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to James007, 15, #568 of 764 🔗

It’s child abuse what we are doing to little kids, to make adults feel safe, it’s not kids’ job to look after adults, it’s the other way around. I just wish parents could get together in their own play groups, and just flout the whole ridiculous situation altogether. So sorry your little lad is struggling, it’s not fair.

15591 ▶▶ Paul, replying to James007, 12, #569 of 764 🔗

The way these poor little souls are going to be treated is sickening and being done by people who supposedly care about children.The inhumane and cold way they are being treated now will affect them for the rest of their lives,this actually makes me feel physically sick.

15633 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Paul, 2, #570 of 764 🔗

Thanks, yes hopefully these restrictions will wear off. They surely can’t keep this up for long.

A bit sad to see that some toys have been banned, including sand-pits and soft toys. The idea being that if a child cuddles a teddy bear, or plays in the sand – another child may be the same. The government advice is quite detailed, but I expect there will be a lot of variation between preschools as to how this advice is applied.

I am thankful that staff will not be wearing masks!

15611 ▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to James007, 7, #571 of 764 🔗

Have not had to sign anything, was pleased my two year old’s nursery specifically banned muzzling children. As for socially distancing pre-schoolers, staff will soon tire, I’d bet and let nature take its course. Stay firm as not sending your children back will be taken as a sign of fear.

15630 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to James007, 1, #572 of 764 🔗

There’s that word “comply” again. Just write “I am not a Borg” over it 😉

15631 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to James007, 3, #573 of 764 🔗

Sorry that remark of mine was frivolous. It’s a horrid situation for your child I know. We can but hope this madness doesn’t last too much longer as people wake up and see what is really happening.

15640 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to James007, 8, #574 of 764 🔗

Sorry, but this is criminal. Absolutely criminal. What sort of society do these effing people (sorry I want to swear the house down) think they are creating 15-20 years from now?

15650 ▶▶ IanE, replying to James007, 2, #575 of 764 🔗

Seig Heil! {As we are constantly forced to say.}

15653 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to James007, 1, #576 of 764 🔗

WTF????? Just when I think nothing more can shock me…

15703 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to James007, 3, #577 of 764 🔗

If it takes the two of you to get him bathed and into bed, I really can’t see him complying with any ‘social bubble policy’. 🙂

All the best anyhow.

15582 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 13, #578 of 764 🔗

I work in the travel industry which is being dismantled and decimated day by day. On a FB industry page, people were moaning about the packed beaches etc. all doom and gloom and that we will never get out of this is idiots keep behaving like that.

I posted the positive news about the CDC figures, the WHO stating that a 2nd wave was unlikely and also linked the Chris Whitty daily stating that you are very unlikely to die from this. The response?

“Well if that were true, then either the Govt have been lying about the deaths and danger or this is something really serious. I would bet it is the latter”.

I give up!

15594 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Sarigan, 6, #579 of 764 🔗

This is the problem.

Take Cummings, everyone is saying “he’s lying, the gov are liars and never tell the truth, can’t be trusted”.

Then you have everything COVID-19 and it’s “the Gov and experts are all telling the truth, stay at home, save lives”.

Absolute simpletons!

15597 ▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #580 of 764 🔗

Well it’s not like our governments have ever lied to us about anything, is it?

I mean, not anything important .

Right, Mr Blair ? Mr Bush ?

15629 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Sarigan, 11, #581 of 764 🔗

Well I’ve just booked 6 flights (3 returns) for July September and October. Friends think I’m mad but I will be the person in the sunshine whilst they are coping with a deluge of rain and cold winds in Britain when the drought breaks. Seriously it’s up to us to get up and get going and show the way, I think. When I return Covid-free and perfectly healthy, I’m hoping the scared ones will have their eyes opened just a little.

15639 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #582 of 764 🔗

I have just booked flights to Spain for July. I will go unless they physically hold me back. I aim to document the whole process.

15651 ▶▶▶▶ Thomas_E, replying to Sarigan, 1, #583 of 764 🔗

The issue is not traveling to Europe as pretty much all EU countries are ready for tourists ( the Spanish tourist slogan is no: We are excepting you) and there will be no quarantine going there but coming back our brilliant government will institute a 2 week quarantine process…the only country in Europe!! I have holiday booked for end of July and I’m sure the airlines will fly me there, the bars,restaurants and beaches are already open but if it all depends what our police state does about this..

15641 ▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to CarrieAH, #584 of 764 🔗

I’m booked to go off somewhere warm in August but hoping they don’t cancel the flights again. There are quite bizarre statements on government websites about all of us having to return home NOW. Why?

COVID-19 Exceptional Travel Advisory Notice

As countries respond to the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, including travel and border restrictions, the Foreign & Commonwealth Office advises British nationals against all but essential international travel. Any country or area may restrict travel without notice. If you live in the UK and are currently travelling abroad, you are strongly advised to return now, where and while there are still commercial routes available. Many airlines have suspended flights and many airports are closed, preventing flights from leaving.

15647 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #585 of 764 🔗

I’m surprised you didn’t get cries of “burn the witch”. If you go on holiday and don’t die then you’re definitely a witch and should be burned. If you do die then maybe you aren’t a witch after all but you probably deserved it.

Seriously though. When you come back it will be a case of CarrieAH didn’t die so it must be safe. You’re so brave!

15648 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to CarrieAH, #586 of 764 🔗

It’s the airports and flights that put me off: indeed I pretty much gave up on foreign travel two years ago. UK travel for me – but with not the slightest covid trepidation!

15652 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to CarrieAH, #587 of 764 🔗

What are you going to so about the 42 days in total of quarantine you’ll have observe for the three holidays when you return to the UK? Do you not have to work?

Also, do the places you’re going to (or are looking at putting in place) have a quarantine in place for new arrivals?

15868 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, #588 of 764 🔗

Go! Enjoy! Shout about it!

15638 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Sarigan, 6, #589 of 764 🔗

Knut Wittkowski says the ‘second wave’ is an invention to justify the measures. Why the hell should there be a second wave? And if so, think about it, why not a third, and a fourth and a fifth etc etc? Wittkowski: ‘ Shutting down schools, driving the economy against the wall – there was no reason for it. The only reason that this nonsense now goes on and on, and people are inventing things like this ‘second wave’, which is going to force us to change society and never live again, is that the politicians are afraid of admitting an error.’

15810 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #590 of 764 🔗

… or they’re up to something very sinister!

15689 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Sarigan, 1, #591 of 764 🔗

Read yesterday, and again this morning, the WHO statement that a second wave was unlikely. Read 5 minutes ago WHO warn that the first wave has not passed and they are expecting a second. Fake news from the WHO, surely not.

15590 ScuzzaMan, replying to ScuzzaMan, 6, #592 of 764 🔗

I’m going to comment on the Turner Prize and the subject of “art” generally, as I think there’s a parallel to the plandemic that is worth drawing from that example.

What’s wrong with modern art (so called) is that a lot more effort and indeed, genius, goes into the describing and mythologizing over the product, than ever goes into the production process itself.

This is a key signal that you’re being scammed, like those lavish lunches, dinners, presentations, and gift packages that came with the Time Share craze of some decades ago, the over-investment in the sales pitch was a sign that the thing itself was not of a value commensurate with the price.

A more organised person than I could probably construct a useful aphorism about the ratio of production costs to sales costs but I will simply say that when the sales cost is close to (or exceeds) the production costs then keep your hand on your wallet and back away.

Which brings us to the corona virus scam, in which inordinate amounts of time and money are still being spent to convince, to bamboozle, and to browbeat the general public into compliance, because the proposition itself lacks the necessary character to persuade people that it is in their best interests to destroy their personal and collective economies by complying.

And the ongoing investment in the sales pitch is an emphatic signal that our governments <b>know</b> that the plandemic is a scam.

As to do their actions, such as not complying with the regulations they have imposed on the rest of us. Right, Dominic?

The most galling contrast is of course that the Time Share scammers spent their own money on their amped up sales pitch, while our governments are spending our money to scam us, adding insulting injury to insulting injury.

I should note here that I’m not a conspiracy theorist in the sense of believing this was all cooked up by every government in the world in advance, but I am a conspiracy theorist in the sense that every government in the world is a conspiracy theorist, all of them having laws against colluding to commit crimes like murder, fraud, theft, criminal negligence, and etc, all of which this plandemic includes.

I am a conspiracy theorist in the sense that I believe the political class know exactly where their advantage lies and are prepared to ruthlessly pursue it by whatever means we allow them to use and whenever circumstances allow them such opportunity. In other words the kinds of conspiracies I know to exist are largely opportunistically generated and promulgated, as our political class are nothing if not first class opportunists.

You could call it the political equivalent of the old saying by Adam Smith that “<b> Men of the same trade seldom meet that the talk does not turn to a conspiracy against the public</b>” and you’d be right because as we know there is a massive revolving door between politics and commerce and the political and big business class are effectively indistinguishable one from the other. President Billionaires and Eton Prime Ministers being pointed examples of the kind.

15601 ▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to ScuzzaMan, #593 of 764 🔗

Grrr! for only now noticing that the html controls are available without coding. Oh, well.

15636 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to ScuzzaMan, 3, #594 of 764 🔗

The use of the term ‘conspiracy theories’ just adds fuel to the concept that these ideas are held by crackpots. In our collective terror of being branded a ‘crackpot’ and trying to distance ourselves, we are giving credence to the belief. People loathe being ridiculed, marginalised, etc etc and we so all just play along.

15678 ▶▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to Sceptique, 1, #595 of 764 🔗

Yes, that’s what the term is for. It’s a term of rhetorical art designed to stimulate an emotional response and close down intellectual processing. In other words, it is a term of propaganda .

I. Don’t. Care .

That’s why I am not afraid to use it. As I noted, every government in the world is a conspiracy theorist and they actively prosecute people for criminal conspiracies every day .

Don’t even get me started on the media, who have hysterically pursued an obviously fake “ Muh Russia! ” conspiracy theory for over 4 years now.

Once you let your enemies define words for you, they’ve already won. Do not fear their word play, believing that their words change the nature of reality (i.e. sorcery).

Just pursue the truth, follow it wherever it leads, and let the chips fall where they may. Freedom demands a certain degree of courage.

15642 ▶▶ IanE, replying to ScuzzaMan, 2, #596 of 764 🔗

Yes, the global warming scam is a similar example of over-promotion of little content!

15687 ▶▶▶ Marion, replying to IanE, #597 of 764 🔗

That makes the global warming scam sound a bit harmless (although I’m sure you didn’t mean it to 🙂 ) there is no content in the campaign against co2 – just lies on lies on lies, corruption and more and more corruption – exactly the same lies and corruption that’s going on with this idiotic virus.

15593 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 3, #598 of 764 🔗

I couldn’t sleep last night (caffeine taken in evening, always regret it) and spent a couple of hours watching several YouTube videos by Dr Vernon Coleman supporting the anti lockdown position. He does gravitate towards conspiracy theories but his delivery is quietly persuasive. I am only vaguely aware of this gentleman but recall from the past that he has been quite severely criticised by the medical authorities for dissemination of false and dangerous medical information to the public. Has anybody on here watched his videos and what do you think of them? Thanks in anticipation.

15602 ▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to Gillian, 4, #599 of 764 🔗

Used to look forward to reading his column in the People as a kid. I think he’s been spot on on the coronavirus. I stopped using google as a search for his name does not bring his website vernoncoleman.com in the top results, but only critiques of his work. He does lean towards conspiracy but leaves the cock-up option open. He made an important contribution to the debate by noting early on that COVID19 was no longer classed as a Highly Infectious Contagious Disease.

15645 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Gillian, 1, #600 of 764 🔗

His YouTube videos are excellent.

15664 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Gillian, 1, #601 of 764 🔗

Caffeine before bed is a bad idea. Whenever I take it I always get sleep paralysis. That’s when you wake up but your body is still asleep so you can’t move. Truly frighening.

15717 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #602 of 764 🔗

Turn it to your advantage, practise astral travel ? 🙂

15700 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gillian, 2, #603 of 764 🔗

Vernon Coleman – medical doctor, now an author.

One of the very first to describe the nature of big pharma; the dangers/inadequacies of the medical system; has written many books for health ‘consumers’.

Honourable in what he writes. Usually highly accurate. Mad as a box of frogs.

15604 Simon Dutton, replying to Simon Dutton, 3, #604 of 764 🔗

The fourth part of the Corbett Report on Bill Gates has just been released. It is stunning – absolutely essential viewing:

https://youtu.be/DSvhPnUgyz8

If YouTube have already taken the video down, you will likely find it at bitchute.com. Just search for “Corbett Report”.

15613 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #605 of 764 🔗

What’s the TL;DR? I don’t have much appetite right now for 40mins of tinfoil-hattery unless it’s genuinely useful.

15619 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to AidanR, #606 of 764 🔗

What’s TL;DR?

15622 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #607 of 764 🔗

Too Long Don’t Read aka just get straight to the point.

15665 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Nobody2020, #608 of 764 🔗

Thanks

15624 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #609 of 764 🔗

It’s internet speak for “Too Long; Didn’t Read”…. to put it another way, what are the key points?

15621 ▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to AidanR, 1, #610 of 764 🔗

Hmm… I thought the idea was to question what we are told to believe instead of shutting it down like the ignorant sheeple?

15628 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Sceptique, 3, #611 of 764 🔗

Well yes, but there’s such a surfeit of cobblers about at the moment, like that Plandemic thing. I can spend 5 mins reading an article, to determine whether it’s of value, but even in lockdown I have better things to do than spending 40 mins watching a YT video to find out if it has anything of substance (and with evidence) to say.

15681 ▶▶▶▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to AidanR, 1, #612 of 764 🔗

There’s plenty of evidence in those videos.

Whether that evidence supports Corbett’s conclusions you can only know by examining both.

15800 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, 1, #613 of 764 🔗

I watch most things at double speed.

15695 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to AidanR, 1, #614 of 764 🔗

TL;DR is that a tiny elite is planning to depopulate much of the planet and enslave the people who remain. The present situation is part of that process. If you think it’s all “tinfoil-hattery” that’s your privilege.

(BTW, the pejorative term “conspiracy theory” was coined by the CIA in a directive (# 1035-960) sent to all their bureaux in the wake of the assassination of JFK, with the instruction that any explanation of the event that diverged from the Warren Report’s should be dismissed as paranoid.)

15853 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Simon Dutton, #615 of 764 🔗

It’s be interesting to find out who was involved in the VHEMT (voluntary human extinction) movement and what those people are saying/doing nowadays.

http://vhemt.org/

15772 ▶▶▶ spelldispel, replying to AidanR, #616 of 764 🔗

Eugenics through technological and health control.

15770 ▶▶ spelldispel, replying to Simon Dutton, #617 of 764 🔗

An essential watch, makes sense of all this nonsense. The previous parts need watching too to see the whole picture.

15644 ScuzzaMan, replying to ScuzzaMan, 7, #618 of 764 🔗

In the Empire of Lies, Truth is Treason .”

This is an important saying, but also notable at this particular point in time, for it is highly relevant.

Yesterday I observed the British government’s insistence that dissent is evil, the message of their new posters emphasizing that:

If one person breaks the rules, we will all suffer.

You can read this as a warning , or you can read it as a threat , depending on your own predilections. I took it as the latter, being a devout cynic. It is in truth a direct threat that those who break the rules (unless closely connected to the ruling class, eh, Dominic ?) will be made to suffer. THAT is not hyperbole, it is government policy . It is the law ( for small people ) .

But it is also interesting in that the same idea that was earlier applied to the anti-vaxxers (“ you’re killing people! “) is now enlarged to apply to anyone who thinks we’re free to do our own personal risk management. This is the inevitable course of politics, that every such precedent is first established against the most unsavory and unsympathetic target (speech repression against nazi larpers, Patriot Act surveillance against terrorists, etc) available, and then the principles involved expanded over time to apply to wider and wider communities of ordinary people never envisioned nor described in the original legislation that establishes these principles.

Parenthetically, this lack of specificity in the original documents is both necessary for the scam to work, deliberate , and a signal that the scammers are aware of what they are doing.

It is also well said that “ Truth is the first casualty of War ” and this connects directly to the “ invisible enemy ” rhetoric of the lock-down perpetra(i)tors.

I thought it might be useful and illustrative to apply this ancient wisdom to some of the other wars our governments have declared in recent decades. Basic logic links propositions to conclusions to form syllogisms of the following form:

Proposition 1: Truth is the first casualty of War .

Proposition 2: Our government has declared War on Terror .

Conclusion: Our government is Lying to us about Terrorism .

Proposition 1: Truth is the first casualty of War .

Proposition 2: Our government has declared War on Disease .

Conclusion: Our government is Lying to us about Disease .

Similar construction can be made for the wars on poverty, crime, hunger, illiteracy, etc declared by various governments over the preceding decades. Are any of these enemies defeated? You think the war in Afghanistan has gone on too long? It’s got nothing on these scams.

Fortunately for us, someone much greater than any and all of our governments had this to say:

And you will know the Truth, and the Truth will set you Free!

Again, logic implies an inverse corollary, that if the truth sets you free then lies enslave you. Control you. The lies we’ve been told about the corona virus – how it spreads, how dangerous it is, where it came from, how to protect ourselves from it, who to protect from it, what must be done in response to its existence – all these lies have this single object behind them: to control us all.

The liars know that if they told us the truth – that the corona virus is more or less a natural flu variant, that it’s not much more dangerous than any other flu variant, that masks don’t really protect you, that it didn’t come from a dead bat in January, that skin and other surfaces don’t really transmit it easily, that the lock-downs were completely unnecessary – then none of us would have complied with these stupid and evil policies. None of us would have allowed them to control us, imprison us, impoverish us.

(Think about this: what did we call those people who historically were controlled, bound to their land, and kept in poverty? They were serfs . The illusions of liberal democracy conceal a burgeoning neo-feudalism.)

As this website has ably documented, the truth is readily available. The liar’s own data sets do not support their lies but directly refute them.

The Truth is out there .

Set yourselves Free .

15713 ▶▶ Paul, replying to ScuzzaMan, 1, #619 of 764 🔗

The poster from the government probably should say,’If one person breaks the rules,YOU will all suffer’ or perhaps more succinctly,’YOU WILL all suffer’.

15716 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to ScuzzaMan, 2, #620 of 764 🔗

Drugs. They started off, and refined their practice, with The War Against Drugs .

And despite the failure and social consequences of the earlier prohibition, not enough people stood up against it.

( Our government is Lying to us about Drugs.) .

16446 ▶▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to JohnB, #621 of 764 🔗

aka The War on SOME Drugs.

15837 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to ScuzzaMan, 1, #622 of 764 🔗

Collective punishment. Illegal under international law.

15655 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 18, #623 of 764 🔗

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/horowitz-european-politicians-blaming-insane-lockdown-idea-us-politicians-double/

Here is an interesting description what is happening in Europe. Denmark and Norway, both countries had a very small and benign outbreak of Covid-19. They are now both counting the enormous cost of their lockdowns which is out of all proportions. The blame game has started. They are both not likely to use lockdown again in a second wave.

The Belgium quote “Instead, Interior Minister Pieter De Crem said on Sunday that Belgium’s hospitals were never in danger of being overrun as in Italy and Spain and implied that the lockdown was unnecessary. “If there was a second wave, then I think we will find ourselves in a different situation, namely with testing and tracing. But I think we can rule out that we will have to go back to the tough measures,”

It seems that many European countries realize now the enormous cost of lockdown.Even Norway and Denmark with “just” 5% drop in the BNP now realize that the normal public health response done in earlier pandemics (like in Sweden and the common approach in all countries pre Hubei) was the best approach rather than importing a method from communist China.

Norway, a sparsely populated country of 5 million with an almost perfect healthcare system, small well-run care homes and vast areas of even smaller population in the North. Why should they have imported an idea of national lockdown?

Italy is the prime country responsible for this idea of national lockdown. They started with a Hubei like lockdown of Lombardy and then a panic decision to lock down the whole country. This one size fit all approach was then adopted by all countries with the blessing of WHO!

15674 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, 11, #624 of 764 🔗

Many people seem to think the measure of success is getting as near to zero deaths as possible. I’ve said before that people who believe that “one death is one death too many” are a danger to the human race.

What we’ve seen is a manifestation of that idea and look at the result.

15686 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #625 of 764 🔗

Don’t forget the “if it saves one life its worth it” brigade as well. This situation has reminded me of what my dad used to say – burning down an entire house just to catch one mice.

15688 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #626 of 764 🔗

It is shocking that we have seen no cost benefit analysis from our or any other government to justify their actions, nor has anyone in the mainstream of media and politics asked to see one.

What the hell are governments for, if not to do exactly this?

Surely they had one ready, which they could adapt to suit the virus at hand?

Wouldn’t this be publicly debated, as one of the most important decisions any government has faced since WW2?

15726 ▶▶▶▶▶ Max, replying to Julian, 1, #627 of 764 🔗

Governments are unlikely to have a cost benefit analysis available for every eventuality, for instance I can think of very few wars which would ever pass cost benefit criteria.
It is true that part of the normal oversight of changes to legislation would include an impact assessment, however an “emergency” does not usually permit time to prepare this.
What should have been (and apparently was) in existence were plans to deal with the onset of a virus pandemic. It seems these plans were followed in the early stages, with the Swedish option of common sense precautions and an eventual herd immunity objective being followed.
What then happened was the leadership (and all the evidence points to this being DC and Johnson personally) panicked, tore up all the existing plans and opted for lockdown instead. I mention especially DC in this because he has repeatedly stated his inclination is to ignore accepted wisdom and to seek advice from ‘whizz kids’ instead. It is then easy to see giving priority to flashy simulations from some modellers at Imperial College over boring ‘old fashioned’ advice from stuffy epidemiologists, especially with the media clamouring for action and all of our nearest neighbours being equally panicked.
It was also clearly a government decision not to make time for even a cursory parliamentary debate about the Regulations (it is notable that they were enacted on the exact day the Easter recess started), again DC and BJ’s track record is to avoid any kind of oversight whenever possible, lest any opposition is raised (as it happens, I think even if there had been a debate there would have been little if any objection raised at the time because the instinct was to follow the heard). It was simply a case of “Act now, repent at leisure later”.

15748 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Max, 2, #628 of 764 🔗

They had planning for a virus pandemic, why wouldn’t that include a cost benefit analysis of the various options?

Regarding wars, I suppose it depends on how broadly one interprets cost benefit analysis. A lot of people died fighting in WW2, partly at least because people valued freedom and the right to decide their own destiny very highly indeed. That suggests that it’s hard to put a price on freedom, which suggests to me that significantly restricting the freedom of an entire nation on an open-ended basis should only be undertaken in the most extreme circumstances.

Were the circumstances so extreme as to warrant the action taken? Are they still? Were those considerations properly weighed by those making the decisions?

15823 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Max, #629 of 764 🔗

I think your assessment of the events leading to the panic and lockdown is right. It appears Cummings was intimately involved in the panic, even pressing in the SAGE committee meetings to push the panic button, and no doubt then advising the PM to take the findings of the same committee more seriously – pushing at one end and pulling at the other, as it were (see the Bloomberg leak about his activity on the Committee).

I don’t know if you’ve seen David Starkey’s opinion on this, but he makes a plausible case that the panic was basically political and over the protection of the NHS from anything that might result in bad images coming out. That, imo, fits with Cummings and Johnson as prime panickers.

Re the cost/benefit, for something foreseeable like a pandemic, there should be cost analysis done as contingency planning. Each department head should be able to produce a broad summary of the likely costs in their area of competence of a proposed policy basically overnight.

If this wasn’t done – if they weren’t asked to produce that and consideration given to the results (and I suspect it wasn’t), then that’s prima facie proof of gross negligence.

15846 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, #630 of 764 🔗

Meant to add: if there had been no contingency planning that included cost analysis for lockdown measures then that in itself suggests it simply should not have been considered as a policy response at all. But if it were nevertheless to be under consideration, then department heads should still be able to run up rough estimates for the likely costs in their areas of responsibility within a day or two, on an emergency basis.

15847 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Max, replying to Mark, #631 of 764 🔗

Agree Mark, contingency plans would have been assessed and costed in some way, the problem was they were overridden.
And yes I saw the David Starkey interview and agree it was a highly plausible analysis – to be fair much of what I said above is a précis of what he was saying.

15854 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Max, replying to Max, #632 of 764 🔗

…and to add to the above, a (hasty) assessment of the lockdown itself probably was done before it was launched (so that costs could be assessed across sectors), but my guess is the estimates would have been based on the duration of the initial period set (3 weeks).
The problem was, almost as soon as lockdown started, the goalposts moved and the objective went from “flattening the curve” (short duration) to complete suppression (long duration), which is where we are stuck now.

15883 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Max, #633 of 764 🔗

You might well be right, but this is one of the first areas I’d be wanting to get an inquiry looking into, both what was the advice on the costs of lockdown and what decisions led to the mission creep..

15711 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #634 of 764 🔗

This was the proof of concept run for the lockdown:

Man sets home on fire after using blowtorch to kill spiders

15870 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, #635 of 764 🔗

The ‘excess deaths’ idea always puzzles me. The human race has got along fine up to now with just one death each. Asking for more is just plain greedy.

15743 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to swedenborg, 2, #636 of 764 🔗

There will be some blowback in this country, eventually – remember the Iraq war fiasco? And if I’m honest a lot of the lockdown lovers will be the ones worst hit by the economic fallout. I’m surprised this thought hasn’t occurred to the fop haired clown and his side-kick – the country could be in big trouble here.

The fact that other European countries are unwinding their lockdowns with few problems is being picked up in the media….

15753 ▶▶ ianp, replying to swedenborg, #637 of 764 🔗

Stealth stealth…. This is a bigger game for absolutely sure, and I think it absolutely centres around china. But watch out, as when lockdown ruled out what will we, the saps have to accept huh? Track trace? A tracing app? Fuck that

15658 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #638 of 764 🔗

Hypocrisy at it’s finest.

The news at the moment is the National Security Bill affecting Hong Kong. It’s going to be a curtailment of freedom to the people of Hong Kong.

Meanwhile in the rest of the free world there’s nothing to see here folks.

15661 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #639 of 764 🔗

However, let’s hope that this makes it even easier to get Huawei out of our affairs!

15682 ▶▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to IanE, #640 of 764 🔗

Why?

The Chinese government is the model our governments have used. What difference does it make, in that case?

15660 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #641 of 764 🔗

Interesting report on whether the virus was man made or natural by chance:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/21/australian-researchers-see-virus-design-manipulati/

15796 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, #642 of 764 🔗

Very interesting. However, what if it was created in the US and exported to China?

15666 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #643 of 764 🔗

As someone said above, we need to club together and buy an island. Trouble is, we would need to defend it from the hordes who would, after a while, realise that it was the only prosperous place left on earth.

15667 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #644 of 764 🔗

It’s not the British way to just buy an island…. invasion and colonisation is the thing.

I don’t see Italy being particularly well equipped to defend Sardinia.

15679 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to AidanR, 2, #645 of 764 🔗

There’s always Necker Island. All we need to do is get Branson to put it up as collateral. Any ideas?

15776 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Nobody2020, #646 of 764 🔗

Sell vastly overpriced tickets for “space travel” perhaps?

15685 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #648 of 764 🔗

We’ll scare them off by not wearing masks and coughing loudly.

15690 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 23, #649 of 764 🔗

Dr John Lee, one of the few voices of sanity to have stood up and been counted in print, podcast, again and again, has once more stepped up to the breach

After this experience, I no longer believe that the institutions of our society are capable of ‘following the science’, and that fills me with foreboding. If science can be hijacked to fuel mass hysteria once, maybe it could easily enough happen again. How can we prevent this? What changes can be made to the interface between science and politics to facilitate proportionate decision-making? How should the evidence and the decision-making be reported to the public? Should there be constitutional mechanisms to stop the government abrogating our rights to personal risk assessment?’

The Spectator

The interface between science and politics? Sweden shows us how.

How should the evidence and the decision-making be reported to the public? The bbc shows us how not to do it. They must be held to account and reformed, made fit for purpose.

Constitutional mechanisms to stop the government abrogating our rights to personal risk assessment? Of course, and there is only one man with the gumption to draft such mechanisms; his Lordship’s name is…..you know the rest

15792 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #650 of 764 🔗

Surely our constitutional protection is Parliament – which has been holidayed off on much more than full pay.

15693 karate56, replying to karate56, 12, #651 of 764 🔗

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-the-dominic-cummings-saga-tells-us-about-lockdown

In a nutshell exactly what all of us here think I expect, to a word. Everyone in the UK should be forced to read this.

15714 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to karate56, 7, #652 of 764 🔗

Like I’ve said many times, the gateway drug is belief in “man-made climate science”. It looks like it could be real because of all the models and “evidence” but when you apply the basics of the scientific method, it is all supposition, hypothetical datasets and extrapolation beyond the limits of the argument.

Much like this.

Science can be used as a fantastic weapon of fear, but only if a public suspends common sense.

15718 ▶▶ ScuzzaMan, replying to karate56, 10, #653 of 764 🔗

“following the science” is itself a political slogan, not a sensible basis for individual or collective action.

Properly done, science can *sometimes* tell you what the risks are in taking a certain action.

But it cannot tell you if taking that risk for the accompanying reward is a good trade-off. It cannot tell if that risk/reward trade-off is more valuable TO YOU than a different trade-off that attaches to a different action. It cannot predict for whom this trade-off is more valuable than that trade-off.

Partly because the whole idea of value is wrongly understood by most people as an objective inherent property of things, whereas in reality it is a subjective and transient property of momentary and unrepeatable circumstances.

Mostly because science deals with discovering and understanding how objective reality operates, whereas value is subjective and not much amenable to such inquiry.

“Following the science” is a political slogan used to distance the sloganeer from responsibility for the results of their policy choices. It’s merely a recycled version of one of the oldest lies in human history, namely:

It’s not my fault!

Much like “ the intelligence ” is used as a cover for decisions already made for other reasons (see the Iraq War and WMDs), so too “ following the science ” is a cover for policies already chosen that have been awaiting the opportunity to apply just this pretext to excuse them.

No, Boris, you haven’t followed the science and you ARE responsible, and the people of Britain will not soon forget it.

15741 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to ScuzzaMan, 6, #654 of 764 🔗

Exactly. Whatever one thinks of the scientists and advisors, it was the government’s decision to make, and it was a political and social one, informed by science but not dictated by it. And the “science” should have been obtained from a much wider set of sources, for such a huge step to have been taken.

I think for the good of our country, we should try to get this into people’s heads so they think about it a bit more, next time. We should resist scapegoating of those who played a secondary role. MPs should not be spared. Can anyone name an MP who comes out of this with much honour? Or a member of the Lords, for that matter?

15827 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 4, #655 of 764 🔗

Exactly my view as well. I despise Ferguson and feel he has a lot to answer for, but in the end the ones with responsibility for the actions taken are the politicians who took the decisions because that’s what they were there to do, and who failed to seek proper advice or to exercise due diligence, or to exhibit courage or leadership.

15730 ▶▶ Max, replying to karate56, 2, #656 of 764 🔗

Bravo, c68! Succinct yet deeply insightful, as always.

15789 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karate56, 3, #657 of 764 🔗

“Stay Alert” is an obvious pisstake.

People who are alert can see through the propaganda.

There’s a lot of piss being taken by the PTB.

15818 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cheezilla, #658 of 764 🔗

Be A Lert

15694 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #659 of 764 🔗

https://twitter.com/plaforscience/status/1265585209317240832/photo/1

https://twitter.com/plaforscience/status/1265586094143410177/photo/1

https://twitter.com/plaforscience/status/1265587410689286150/photo/1

These three graphs show that the deaths of Covid-19 are following Gompertz curve in UK, Italy and Spain. There is not any human influence of the curves. The lockdown had no effect at all.

In fact as one of twitter reply about the UK curve “Great stuff, if you use the ONS data (or NHS for hosptials) you can get deaths on date occurred, which will show an earlier peak!” as the graph of UK was using the reporting date of deaths as in Worldometer. If he used the date of death in UK his curve would be shifted even further to the left thus even later for the UK lockdown to have any effect on deaths.

15799 ▶▶ PFD, replying to swedenborg, 2, #660 of 764 🔗

I’m glad to see the data for Italy and Spain. It agrees with my own analyses which I have posted here before. Fatalities in all these countries follow a Gompertz distribution and the virus was slowing down from the very start. First deaths in England were the 3rd March, implying infection around the 10th or 11th February. By the time of SD (16th March) R had reduced to 1 and by lockdown (23rd March) R was <1 where it has remained since. This mirrors the exact same findings reported by the Norwegian Health Ministry in a comment above. In all these countries lockdown has not affected in any meaningful way the trajectory of the virus.

15872 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to PFD, #661 of 764 🔗

Now why am I nit surprised?

Is anybody on this site surprised?

15698 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 16, #662 of 764 🔗

It makes no sense that I can soon meet my family in a car showroom or a garden centre, but us sitting apart in the garden is banned. That has no scientific or logical basis. The Government are pleading with us to show some common sense – it needs to work both ways.

Just from Prof Karol Sikora’s twitter

How true!

15747 ▶▶ ianp, replying to swedenborg, 3, #663 of 764 🔗

I really do suspect it’s not meant to make sense.

Just choose, or better still, ignore

15861 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to swedenborg, #664 of 764 🔗

The idea is that you are to be under surveillance at all times, or not sure that you are not under surveillance.

15866 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Pebbles, #666 of 764 🔗

Yeah, but…. he’s still basically approving of the measures. He thinks Cummings is a “hypocrite” rather than the architect of the biggest self-inflicted wound in history. He’s completely oblivious to the fact that the measures themselves are unnecessary and were instigated on the flimsiest evidence.

15891 ▶▶▶ Pebbles, replying to Barney McGrew, #667 of 764 🔗

He is a comedian not an investigative journalist, he just expressed personal sentiments and vented anger which in this utterly emotionally repressed society is a very healthy first step… before other dots are connected.

15712 Styles, 5, #668 of 764 🔗

Have you seen the article in Forbes on where the true problem is currently in the US — namely in long term assisted living facilities and nursing homes? There are some interesting stats. https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2020/05/26/nursing-homes-assisted-living-facilities-0-6-of-the-u-s-population-43-of-u-s-covid-19-deaths/?fbclid=IwAR2IjM3cJMXrR-7YWKbmwNyJpmtQYuZ2dwFo3fE3dD9NspwZQOdSI1yXIVU#5c24916674cd

15728 Nobody2020, 8, #669 of 764 🔗

Articles like this highlight the problems we have with science:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/coronavirus-immunity-complicated-180974970/

There is too much focus on uncertainty and how that should stop us making decisions. It’s a wonder how the human race has survived for this long as it would seem that uncertainty has only come into existence since science was discovered.

I think scientists need to take control of the narrative as it’s going to take a battering once the post mortem comes round and the finger pointing begins.

15729 Geraint, replying to Geraint, 10, #670 of 764 🔗

Hi. Suggest we call this phase ‘Mockdown’ – Government is potty enough to keep peddling lockdown nonsense; public seem increasingly willing to pay lip service only. Real lockdown lovers seething…..

15746 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Geraint, 11, #671 of 764 🔗

Yeah …. I am kind of getting that impression. I do check the comments boards of various newspapers (I can’t stand the virtuous guardian though). So basically rags like the sun – 90% anti lockdown and definitely anti track and trace. It’s a tsunami of vitriol – about bloody time

The question though is now have the sheep gone into hiding…? Are they the ‘silent majority’ or are the primitives waking up. One thing for sure and easy to spot : the masketeers… Really a rare sight around here now thank god.

Now for a big exposé to out the NHS and obliterate the clapping seals. Got to be done

15731 Geraint, replying to Geraint, 7, #672 of 764 🔗

Feeling creative today :)… A limerick to amuse, hopefully, grimly, in this insanity

‘There once was a two metre rule,

Dreamt up out the blue by some fool,

‘Stay right in your place,

With your mask on your face’,

Makes authoritarians drool’

15873 ▶▶ annie, replying to Geraint, 2, #673 of 764 🔗

The rule to keep distant two metres

Is for morons and zombies and bleaters.

All sensible folk

Take the thing as a joke,

For the people we meet will not eat us.

15732 Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 23, #674 of 764 🔗

5 minutes ago in the Guardian:-

West Midlands police and crime commissioner David Jamieson said officers are reporting people breaking lockdown rules and using Dominic Cummings as an excuse, amid fears Boris Johnson’s key aide’s actions are undermining the government’s public health messaging.

Jamieson told BBC Radio 4’s The World At One programme that people are telling officers that “if it is okay for Cummings, it is okay for us” and “it looks like there is one rule for us and another rule for the people in No 10 Downing Street”.

He said:

Now you can’t… if the rules are flexible, and people seem to have interpreted them who are at the heart of government, then it is almost impossible then for police officers to be able to carry out their job effectively.

What the police are now saying to me is they are getting quite a push back, not just from some of the younger people who previously where saying why can’t I play football, why can’t I go out in the streets? They’re getting push backs from other generations of people as well.

Now that is a bad sign, showing that confidence in the rules, confidence in government and thereby the police’s ability to enforce it has been undermined very much in the last few days.

Good. Now all we need are some pop-up public toilets on the beaches.

15737 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 4, #675 of 764 🔗

Very good, we all need to start doing this.

15812 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 3, #676 of 764 🔗

“if the rules are flexible”

To start with, the rules were not absolute, but did get tightened up when a lot of people weren’t taking them seriously, or were using their common sense and going to parks, beaches on their own.
There has been plenty of breaches of the lockdown before all this fuss about Cummings.
Plus, it’s not healthy keeping people isolated and confined at home.

15820 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, #677 of 764 🔗

Once we were into “stay alert” mode, with its many petty and contradictory rules, the police said the new regs are unenforcable.

15733 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #678 of 764 🔗

Just put in a FOI request to the Government lead Department:

Sirs,

In The health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020 it states:

“Serious and imminent threat declaration

3. —(1) These Regulations apply where the Secretary of State declares, by notice published on http://www.gov.uk , that the incidence or transmission of Coronavirus constitutes a serious and imminent threat to public health, and that the incidence or transmission of Coronavirus is at such a point that the measures outlined in these Regulations may reasonably be considered as an effective means of preventing the further, significant transmission of Coronavirus (“serious and imminent threat declaration”).

(2) The Secretary of State may revoke a serious and imminent threat declaration by way of a subsequent notice published on http://www.gov.uk .

(3) Before making a declaration under paragraph (1), or revoking a declaration under paragraph (2), the Secretary of State must have due regard to any advice from the Chief Medical Officer or one of the Deputy Chief Medical Officers of the Department of Health and Social Care. “

What was the advice given by the Chief Medical Officer or one of the Deputy Chief Medical Officers of the Department of Health and Social Care prior to this notice being issued?

Has anyone out there in sceptic land seen the advice as from what I can recall in February we were being old everything was all hunky-dory?

15752 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #679 of 764 🔗

It’s all very odd. What got me started on this whole journey was when I found out that covid19 had been removed from the government’s high consequence infectious disease list four days before lockdown. I still haven’t found out why that is when we’ve been told it’s so infectious. I think the whole act is unlawful, there was never a serious and imminent threat, just a grossly exaggerated one. This government is the worst in the history of this country for what it’s done yet most people are so brainwashed they can’t even see it so they’ll probably get away with it!

15787 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Moomin, 1, #680 of 764 🔗

This legislation was strange as well,

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020

Made

at 6.50 a.m. on 10th February 2020

Laid before Parliament

at 2.30 p.m. on 10th February 2020

Coming into force in accordance with article 1(1)

Citation, commencement and application

1. —(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020 and come into force immediately after they are made.

(2) These Regulations apply in relation to England only.

So written in the morning, put before Parliament in the afternoon and commenced immediately upon placing before Parliament.

They then waited 6+ weeks to bring in the Statutory Instrument The Coronavirus Act 2020.

I read a while back that the downgrading of the HCID was purely a medical decision and that no politicians are involved in this decision. Will try and find the link.

Maybe this was the medical people’s way of telling us it was all bullshit as they could not say it in public.

Like more and more countries – medics and scientists said no lockdown, politicians said we’re going for it.

15793 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #681 of 764 🔗

https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/advisory-committee-on-dangerous-pathogens#membershipFound the ACDP Committee make-up on the gov.uk website – no politicians

15809 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Moomin, 2, #682 of 764 🔗

It might be highly infectious, i.e. easily contracted, like a cold, but for those of working age, far less deadly than the flu.
It’s in those of 60+ with other conditions that it’s a significant risk to. Had the NHS (and other healthcare systems in other countries) not sent at-risk patients from hospitals into care homes, the death toll would have been lower.

15815 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Moomin, 3, #683 of 764 🔗

Was this not so they could clear the hospitals and so they did not have to be treated in specialist HCID centres? Effectively making it possible to send the ‘bed blockers’ back to the care homes.

15874 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Sarigan, #684 of 764 🔗

Interesting idea…

15739 daveyp, replying to daveyp, 11, #685 of 764 🔗

Could I have your thoughts on sending kids back to school?

I don’t have any objection to kids going back to school because of the virus and there only being a very low risk anyway.

My main concern is with the social distancing that is going to be put in place, and the prospect f the children being educated and nurtured in an abnormal social environment that could affect their mental health and the way they perceive the world.

I am worried that teaching in these kind of environments cause cause anxiety issues as well over the fear of not wanting to be close to other children, which could be damaging when forming friendships whilst growing up and in later life.

I think this is all being overlooked when considering sending children back to school.

15745 ▶▶ Geraint, replying to daveyp, 14, #686 of 764 🔗

You are right to be v concerned. What is being proposed for schools is grotesque. The ‘social distancing’ bandwagon is well and truly running, and it is the most corrosive nonsense of this whole sorry episode. Thread below has one good idea: FOI request ‘on what basis is Department of Education imposing these draconian requirements?’

15775 ▶▶ Adele Bull, replying to daveyp, 4, #687 of 764 🔗

You should see the risk assessments we’ve had to do! 😳 We’re lucky we only have year 6 to accommodate, so we have the room. 60 kids split into four class “bubbles” with no mixing between. Lunch to be eaten at desks and separate outdoor time. Admin staff cannot mix with staff or children, key worker children, who have been in the whole time cannot mix with year six, even if they are year six! Hand sanitizer on way in, hand washing practically all day, and a four day week so we can deep clean in a Friday. Christ knows what they’ll make if it!

15780 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Adele Bull, 1, #688 of 764 🔗

Good grief!! You (and the children) have my sympathy.

15797 ▶▶▶ LuluJo, replying to Adele Bull, 4, #689 of 764 🔗

If I had school age children I would definitely not send them to school under such absurd and frankly disturbing conditions. This is far more terrifying than any virus. You have my sympathy for having to implement such things. I only hope this is all short lived and our children do not have to suffer such measures for too long.

15803 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Adele Bull, 4, #690 of 764 🔗

How to induce rampant fear and OCD in young children, not to m the effects on their physical health, being stuck in their seats all day, including lunch.
It’s totally unnecessary, and potentially harmful.
It’s turning schools into prisons.

15855 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Lms23, 3, #691 of 764 🔗

the schools have been prisons for a long time. The only good thing about the lockdown that the snivelling bed wetting commie weirdos can’t teach their anti family anti human drug abusing porn loving nonsense to children at the moment.

15972 ▶▶▶ R P, replying to Adele Bull, #692 of 764 🔗

I have seen a nursery requiring 3 year olds to come with a mask. It doesn’t get more disturbing than that.

15758 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #693 of 764 🔗

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/june-2020/boriss-corona-catastrophe/

I can’t argue with Simon Heffer on his criticism of Johnson the article doesn’t hold back any punches!

15785 ▶▶ Max, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #694 of 764 🔗

Appropriately (and forensically) excoriating article.
Unfortunately it’s an indictment on our entire political system that at the last election the public were presented with such a derisory choice of options.

15763 annie, replying to annie, 4, #695 of 764 🔗

Help, Toby! I’m drowning in messages and losing my way.

I love ’em all and want to read them all. But isn’t it time this turned into a proper forum, with threads?

Hail to the new chattering classes – the ones that chatter sense!

15767 ▶▶ James007, replying to annie, 1, #696 of 764 🔗

Yes a forum would be a great idea!

15768 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to James007, 1, #697 of 764 🔗

Seconded! (Or thirded or whatever)

15769 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to annie, 3, #698 of 764 🔗

I setup a forum for Lockdown Sceptics a couple of weeks ago, it’s only got about 20 users on at the mo, but if anyone wants to use it rather than losing track of blogs messages then you can happily use it:

https://lockdownsceptics.com/

15778 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to daveyp, 1, #699 of 764 🔗

That’s great Thanks!

15765 TyRade, replying to TyRade, 1, #700 of 764 🔗

Just read your tussle with the Labash fellow, Toby. You kept your cool with a Cummings-like aplomb! Really, the fellow would never make a high school debating team. ‘This house believes lockdown is stupid’ was the motion, more or less. His digressions into body counts (vs wars), Trump being a bigger fool than Cuomo etc were off topic and soon became boorish. Yet you pluckily continues casting evidential and statistical pearls before the ‘swine’! Bravo!

15781 ▶▶ simon hill, replying to TyRade, 1, #701 of 764 🔗

people are doing it now, they are so far behind the curve it’s embarrassing m.

15774 steve, replying to steve, 12, #702 of 764 🔗

Lockdown was not needed to tame Covid, says Norway

Norway is assembling a picture of what happened before lockdown using observed data – hospital figures, infection numbers and so on – to assess the situation in the country in March. At the time, no one really knew. It was feared that Covid was rampant with each person infecting two or three others – and only lockdown could stop this exponential growth by cutting the R number to 1 or lower. But the country’s public health authority has published a report with a striking conclusion: the virus was never spreading as fast as had been feared and was already on the way out when lockdown was ordered. ‘It looks as if the effective reproduction rate had already dropped to around 1.1 when the most comprehensive measures were implemented on 12 March, and it would not take much to push it down below 1… We have seen in retrospect that the infection was on its way out.’

This raises an awkward question: was lockdown necessary? Could voluntary social distancing alone have achieved the same outcome? Camilla Stoltenberg, director of Norway’s public health agency, has given an interview where she is candid about the implications of this discovery. ‘Our assessment now, and I find that there is a broad consensus in relation to the reopening, was that one could probably achieve the same effect – and avoid part of the unfortunate repercussions – by not closing. But, instead, staying open with precautions to stop the spread.’ This is important to admit, she says, because if infection levels rise again – or a second wave hits in the winter – you need to be brutally honest about whether lockdown proved effective.

Norway’s statistics agency was also the first in the world to calculate the permanent damage inflicted by school closures: every week of classroom education denied to students, it found, stymies life chances and permanently lowers earnings potential. So a country should only enforce this draconian measure if it is sure that the academic foundation for lockdown was sound. And in Stoltenberg’s opinion, ‘the academic foundation was not good enough’ for lockdown this time. The leading article in the new Spectator, out tomorrow, argues that Britons deserve the same candour.

15784 ▶▶ Mark, replying to steve, 4, #703 of 764 🔗

A great irony if Norway sticks to this, because we all (most of us) thought that Sweden was going to be the “Great White Hope” for lockdown sceptics, by stopping short of lockdown and giving us a “control”, and Norway became a headache for us because everyone said they’d done so much better than Sweden.

15779 GLT, replying to GLT, 4, #704 of 764 🔗

Witness statement now available to view on Simon Dolan’s crowd justice page. Reading it through is a really useful reminder of how we ended up here…

15830 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to GLT, 4, #705 of 764 🔗

I’ve just read it through, in complete horror really. Seeing it all in black and white like that, makes you realise just how badly this has all been handled, and probably illegally too.

15782 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 6, #706 of 764 🔗

One piece of anecdata to impart. A friend of mine is a senior manager with a global logistics company. He tells me that as
a result of this his company have 35% of their back office furloughed. This has enabled their number crunchers to estimate that they can operate normally with far fewer employees – current estimate is that even in normal times they are overmanned by around 15%. Many of those expecting to return are now likely to find their services are no longer required.

15825 ▶▶ guy153, replying to LGDTLK, 1, #707 of 764 🔗

Yes this is something that will happen quite a bit. There will also be more startups because of all the people who lost their jobs, many of whom will be highly skilled and motivated etc.

15833 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to guy153, 1, #708 of 764 🔗

Could the lockdown discourage people setting up business because they may worry they will find themselves in another lockdown where they can’t operate their business.

15877 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to ianric, #709 of 764 🔗

That’s why it’s important for the economic recovery that they draw a line under the whole thing. If people are nervous about stuff like that it becomes self-fulfilling.

15856 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to LGDTLK, #710 of 764 🔗

This has been spreading like wildfire among CMOs. If you can do home working why not outsource to India?

15786 GrantM, #711 of 764 🔗

An original anti-lockdown song “F*** the new normal”
https://youtu.be/KEfIBRT1gdw

15790 DressageRider, #712 of 764 🔗

Sorry if this is already posted. Some days ago. I tried to sign one of the petitions posted up here, forget which one or who set it up. I have just now had this email:

Sorry, we can’t accept the petition you supported – “Investigate influence vaccine industry has had on our response to covid 19”.

It included confidential, libellous, false or defamatory information, or a reference to a case which is active in the UK courts.

We can’t publish petitions that include false or unproven statements, including about the views or influence of individuals or organisations. We have published the following petition, which you might like to sign: Hold a Public Inquiry into the handling of the Covid-19 crisis: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/302576 The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency regulates medicines, including vaccines, in the UK. The MHRA is responsible for ensuring that all medicines used in the UK meet applicable standards of safety, quality and efficacy. The Government has set out its own plans to support the development of a vaccine for coronavirus, including creating a Vaccine Taskforce, funding domestic trials, and providing funding to international research on the disease. It is already against the law for people to be required to undergo medical treatment, including vaccinations. The Coronavirus Act 2020 has not changed this. You can find out more about coronavirus and how you can protect yourself and others here: http://www.gov.uk/coronavirus https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/ The Government has also created an online service to help you out what you can do if you’re struggling because of coronavirus: https://www.gov.uk/find-coronavirus-support You can read NHS tips to help if you are worried about coronavirus here: https://www.nhs.uk/oneyou/every-mind-matters/coronavirus-covid-19-anxiety-tips You can read impartial analysis of the Government response to coronavirus and policy developments here: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/coronavirus/ You may also be interested to know that because of the large number of petitions that have been started in relation to coronavirus, the Petitions Committee has been questioning the Government about its response to the coronavirus outbreak. Find out more: https://committees.parliament.uk/work/192/the-governments-response-to-coronavirus/

We only reject petitions that don’t meet the petition standards:

https://petition.parliament.uk/help#standards

Thanks,

The Petitions team

UK Government and Parliament

15791 Fiat, replying to Fiat, #713 of 764 🔗

Test

15795 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Fiat, 7, #714 of 764 🔗

You have passed the test

15794 spelldispel, replying to spelldispel, 2, #715 of 764 🔗

Just thought of something. The Coronavirus Regulations 2020 are quite an extensive statutory instrument. They wouldn’t have just been whipped up quickly and were ready to go a few days before Boris made his announcement. Have we been hoodwinked all along and that herd immunity was never the approach that was going to be taken and that lockdown was planned from the outset?

15808 ▶▶ Max, replying to spelldispel, #716 of 764 🔗

“They wouldn’t have just been whipped up quickly”

Wrong. That is what professional civil servants do for a living. With modern technology (including templates for various sections) they could easily have been drafted within 24 hours.

What usually takes the time with such legislation is the parliamentary scrutiny, but in this case there was none.

15813 ▶▶▶ spelldispel, replying to Max, 1, #717 of 764 🔗

Hmmm very defensive! They wouldn’t have been written that quickly, they would have needed to have been cross referenced back to primary act they are hung off and all the amendments to that act, which i imagine there are many. this would have taken more than 24 hours.

15824 ▶▶▶▶ spelldispel, replying to spelldispel, #718 of 764 🔗

To add I have just checked the statutory instruments again, The Coronavirus Act 2020 which is the primary legislation is hung off some act from 1984, can’t remember what it is called, then there are secondary pieces of legislation, which are Coronavirus Regulations amending other pieces of primary legislation. To date there are over 100 pieces of legislation relating to the Coronavirus, many of which were go to go before Boris made his speech.

15831 ▶▶▶▶▶ Max, replying to spelldispel, #719 of 764 🔗

The point I’m making is that software can now do much of the cross referencing. It’s true someone then has to check the references but with an army of people on it (which there would have been in crisis mode) 24 hours is not impossible. But I give you it might have been 48 or 96. But all are infinitely more plausible than the idea they had them hidden in a drawer just waiting for the moment they were given the order to instigate world domination.

15838 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ spelldispel, replying to Max, #720 of 764 🔗

Not buying it. The primary legislation is was written from scratch and is very long, can’t find the traffic light thing that shows the dates it was heard in sittings but from memory I am sure they were initially put before Parliament the week before Boris made his speech and then enacted a couple of days after. I am not saying they were sat in a draw but could easily have been written a few weeks before. Civil Services software being able to materilaise this quickly, give over, they can’t even produce consolidated legislation you have to cross reference everything back to source! As this is before even looking and the secondary legislation. Why have you introduced world domination into the discussion?

15862 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Max, replying to spelldispel, #721 of 764 🔗

Apologies- I had read the original post as suggesting the lockdown plan pre-dated the current outbreak completely. I agree that work on legislative options could well have started early in the outbreak during the spring, when the number of cases was still low.
That said I still think herd immunity was the initial objective, because there would have been no point in even mentioning it if it wasn’t. But the initial lockdown was seen as a tool in achieving herd immunity in a controlled way. What changed was after the lockdown was already in force, the objective was changed from “flattening the curve” to total suppression, with consequences that had not been considered in the initial decision.

15871 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to spelldispel, #722 of 764 🔗

I was told by the spouse of a police officer 4 days before lockdown was announced that lockdown would was going to be announced. That’s what the nation’s police had been alerted to.

15957 ▶▶ R P, replying to spelldispel, #723 of 764 🔗

I think that the legislation was drafted as part of a ‘Exercise Cygnus’, so was ready to go. https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/exercise-cygnus-uk-government-exercise-justifies-covid-19-lockdown

15802 Tim Bidie, 8, #724 of 764 🔗

So, not only is Norway moving towards Sweden’s commonsense approach to covid 19 but the Norwegian Institute of Public Health Director General has said:

‘The institute reported at the start of this month that the reproduction number had already fallen to as low as 1.1 even before the lockdown was announced on March 12.

This suggests that it would not have required heavy-handed measures such as school closures to bring it below 1 and so push the number of infected people in the country into a gradual decline.

“The scientific backing was not good enough,” Stoltenberg said of the decision to close down schools and kindergartens, a policy her agency had not recommend even at the time it was instituted in March.’

https://www.thelocal.no/20200522/norway-could-have-controlled-infection-without-lockdown-health-chief

What’s that noise? Sounds a bit like wheels coming off the lockdown lorry……..

15804 americansceptic, 4, #725 of 764 🔗

Sorry for spammy comment- link didnt work. Here is the image. NO correlation between length of lockdown and “Time to Peak” deaths.

15805 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 12, #726 of 764 🔗

Hmm not sure if I agree or not with that

15806 ▶▶ americansceptic, replying to arfurmo, 4, #727 of 764 🔗

Sorry about that- I posted new comment with actual attachment. Tried pasting, that was result, cant figure out how to delete comment.

15881 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to arfurmo, #728 of 764 🔗

That’s the most I’ve laughed in ages!

15814 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 11, #729 of 764 🔗

Just watching Boris getting a roasting in front of the Liaison Committee. Admitted he only receives a summary of ‘the science’ from SAGE, presumably with Dominic Cummings’ expert scientific overview based on his many years working in the field of scientific inquiry. So much for that. I learned something new – do the rest of you know this? The TTT system is being overseen by Dido Harding – Google her – she was at the helm of TalkTalk when they had the massive data breach. Sorry Toby, know she is an alumna of your alter mater, but you couldn’t make this Sh1t up. We really are finished as a country!

15822 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #730 of 764 🔗

Dido Harding was also in charge of Talk Talk when they failed to transfer my mother’s phone line as she moved a few hundred yards down the road into a McCarthy and Stone apartment, within the same local telephone exchange area as she had been living for the previous 10 years. For 3 weeks she was without service. “Provisioning Failure” they called it. I had to spend untold hours on the line to call centres in India, South Africa and the Phillipines, when the fault clearly needed to be fixed by someone local to her home in Devon. Eventually I had to give up and get her a new number with a different provider. She is a vulnerable person, with dementia, in the “shielding” group. And Dido Harding does not care about her enough to make sure her phone works. There is no way I am trusting her with the tracing app.

15832 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #731 of 764 🔗

Worth bearing in mind here that, in view of the Bloomberg leak about Cummings’ actions in the SAGE meetings, it appears likely he was both “pushing” panic in the SAGE meetings and then “pulling” it further when advising the PM on how to respond to the advice that resulted from his activity in the meetings.

15821 Tim Bidie, 2, #732 of 764 🔗

My sentiments entirely.

15826 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 12, #733 of 764 🔗

I see people have been making improvements to Ferguson’s code. Well done.

15836 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Farinances, 1, #734 of 764 🔗

Totally wiping it would be the only improvement posible.

15828 CarrieAH, 5, #735 of 764 🔗

Well, this makes as much sense as the lockdown does, so good point! 😄

15829 bluefreddy, replying to bluefreddy, 16, #736 of 764 🔗

I have just watched Boris face the liaison committee too, and I have a new hero and good news. Greg Clark, chairman of the science and technology committee, asked Boris why SAGE had recommended the longest anti-social distance in the world. Boris said he’d asked them that himself. Greg Clark asked what they replied. Bla bla. Greg Clark said: “Perhaps you can ask SAGE to review their advice with a few to reducing it to 1 metre, and publish what they say, before the shops open on 14th June.” Boris replied that he already had. Woo hoo!!!

I then found that Greg Clark has written a letter to SAGE:

https://twitter.com/CommonsSTC/status/1263877510451933191/photo/1

At last – a politician with some sense….

15834 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to bluefreddy, 4, #737 of 764 🔗

He is very bright and I got the impression a couple of weeks ago that he was ‘on the case’ of the dodgy Imperial model. A decent Northerner too, what’s not to like? If only he had been a Brexiter! Meanwhile, we have the somewhat less impressive Hancock at the press conference.

15852 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #738 of 764 🔗

‘Somewhat’????

15869 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to IanE, #739 of 764 🔗

Well, you have to be a bit careful not to be too restrictive to leave some space for Professor ‘I talk very slowly so you might think I am intelligent’ Van-Tam!

15843 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to bluefreddy, 2, #740 of 764 🔗

Don’t worry. Cummings will instruct SAGE to advise sticking with 2 metres. ‘Hope I’m wrong!

15860 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #741 of 764 🔗

I hope you are too – and, although that may be too hopeful with the current crew, maybe Rishi might point how wise for the economy a reduction would be (to zero of course would be the sane decision).

15879 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to bluefreddy, #742 of 764 🔗

This, to me, is the crux of the matter and explains why we have ended up in this dead end place – it’s the usual ‘blame game’.

As already explained by someone on here earlier today, the govt slogan ‘following the science’ is a political tool that enables politicians to avoid getting fingered when things go wrong – ‘Blame the scientists, not us, mate’.

SAGE Committee obviously knows this and to avoid being scapegoated, their advice is always to proceed with the utmost caution, irrespective of anything else – you can’t be blamed for being too cautious approach.

Result is political stalemate and stagnation.

Maybe Greg Clark can get us out of the black hole the govt has created.

15835 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 7, #743 of 764 🔗

A little bit of good news…

https://twitter.com/policyatkings/status/1265653974604091397

Support for the lockdown down from 9/10 in April to 4/10 now.

15876 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to AidanR, #744 of 764 🔗

But is it that they are thinking it is not strong enough / being eased “too quickly”? I fear this is the reason for the drop.

15839 JohnB, 1, #745 of 764 🔗

And I thought I was bad with the html … 🙂

15840 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 2, #746 of 764 🔗

New Comedy Unleashed video with Leo Kearse about lockdown-loving wan**rs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wh39yxVfhY

Made me chuckle.

15858 ▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, #747 of 764 🔗

“F**k me, it doesn’t take much to turn a leftie into a Nazi”

Many a true word…

15859 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 1, #748 of 764 🔗

As we have found with the current PM and cabinet!

15865 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to IanE, 1, #749 of 764 🔗

Touche!

Also: “Protesting against an oil rig by driving a plastic boat out that’s burning oil is like protesting against an abortion clinic by drop-kicking babies through the window.”

He’s got some lines that Leo Kearse.

15992 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to AidanR, #750 of 764 🔗

Comedy: quarantined

Accurate

15857 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to JohnB, #752 of 764 🔗

That is 1st class – well worth a read, thank you, sir.

15884 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to JohnB, #753 of 764 🔗

Thank you! Very good.

15849 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 5, #754 of 764 🔗

Tick tock.. has Toby keeled over in his garden shed? Someone should get Mrs Toby to check on him.

15851 ▶▶ IanE, replying to AidanR, 1, #755 of 764 🔗

If he’s in a state anything like as bad as Boris is looking, it’s probably too late!

15863 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to IanE, #756 of 764 🔗

😀 perhaps it will be a good one today!

15882 ▶▶ Sceptic, replying to AidanR, #757 of 764 🔗

He’s probably fed up with the rude comments

15864 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #758 of 764 🔗

We are not alone. People are waking up, or already awake but were staying silent. Check the comments here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8360963/Two-households-meet-week-larger-family-friend-bubble-reunions-delayed.html#reader-comments

15878 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #759 of 764 🔗

My contribution, posting it here for posterity:

People die, it’s a sad fact of life. Are you willing to give up everything you once thought was normal because somebody told you Uncle John is not allowed to die from COVID-19 but we’ll allow him to die of something else sometime in the future? If we stop people dying from this virus, why should we stop there? Why has this virus been arbitrarily chosen as an unacceptable way to die? Look at the statistics, 350k dead in the whole world out of 7 Billion people. And there’s little evidence the numbers would have been higher without a lockdown but there’s plenty of evidence to suggest they made little difference. So is giving up a normal life a price worth paying just so people can die of something else because that’s essentially what’s being asked of you.

15887 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #760 of 764 🔗

Very wise words. There are some people in my life I would say that to, some I would hesitate. Not sure I would say it to colleagues unless I knew them very well. I should perhaps be less of a coward, as it is a poweful argument.

15880 ▶▶ A13, replying to Nobody2020, #761 of 764 🔗

That’s a big change in public opinion from when i last checked comments on dailymail.

15888 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to A13, 2, #762 of 764 🔗

More and more people out and about today, in groups. Youngsters and the middle aged. No police – round my way they seem to have given up. Now we need to work on the mad rules that are coming to regulate the life out of every public and commercial space.

15867 A13, #763 of 764 🔗

Not sure if a repost (too many comments to scroll down and check!)

This is cracking me up right now

https://www.standard.co.uk/tech/gaming/dominic-cummings-barnard-castle-ps4-game-a4451671.html

15885 swedenborg, 1, #764 of 764 🔗

. https://www.thelocal.no/20200525/infection-rates-in-norway-too-low-to-justify-broad-testing

“If 12,000 random people were tested in Norway today, the Norwegian Institute of Public Health estimated in a press release issued on Monday, 15 would test positive, of which only one would have a real coronavirus infection. “

Yesterday was posted the new Wuhan mass testing 8 million people in 10 days showing 200 “asymptomatic carriers”. The whole mass testing was totally meaningless as most was the above. False positive.

The world and the WHO think the Chinese handling of Covid-19 epidemic is remarkable scientific led?

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