Last updated2020-06-01T09:51:30



17980 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 41, #1 of 681 🔗

> It can’t be one rule for Black Lives Matter protestors and another for anti-lockdown protestors.

It can, and it is.

17992 ▶▶ awildgoose, replying to Edgar Friendly, 6, #2 of 681 🔗

It’s all just part of the plan!

17993 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Edgar Friendly, 12, #3 of 681 🔗

And have you noticed how waycist the virus is??

18008 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Edgar Friendly, 4, #4 of 681 🔗

Piers Corbyn should turn up with an anti 5g placard. Try to hijack the message.

18124 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to South Coast Worker, 4, #5 of 681 🔗

Piers Corbyn turned up at Hyde Park yesterday and got arrested again . Very little publicity.

18056 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Edgar Friendly, 11, #6 of 681 🔗

I’m wondering whether *some* people are climbing aboard Black Lives Matter because, deep down, they are desperate to end social distancing and to resume basic freedoms – and BLM is perceived as more socially acceptable than End the Lockdown. Less of a chance of them being ostracized on social media…

18059 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Gossamer, 9, #7 of 681 🔗

Not sure. Looks like the typical ‘social justice’ crowd in photos i’ve seen. But, i know for certain which protest group is more dangerous.

18186 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Gossamer, 14, #8 of 681 🔗

No, don’t think so, they couldn’t give a shit about our freedom, only their agenda. I hadn’t paid much attention to them in the past but I reckon this is some sort of ‘Momentum’ looney left action, extremist anarchists, most of them don’t care about the poor bloke who died in the states. It won’t work in the UK as the majority of people see through that shit, it’s designed to attack Trump and the USA… Then keep remembering what a battle he has with democratic states ending the stupid lockdown.

18255 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Gossamer, 2, #9 of 681 🔗

if you have such concerns as being “ ostracized on social media” then you’re a big girls blouse

18347 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Biker, 5, #10 of 681 🔗

If you’re not being ostracized on social media, you’re doing something wrong & your opinions are probably made of semolina and kittens.

18505 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Edgar Friendly, 4, #11 of 681 🔗

Well, presumably, if this virus affects black people more (as Troy Deeney keeps telling us it does), and mass gathering mean that it spreads more, then the logical conclusion is that Black Lives Matter don’t think that black lives matter.

18666 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to grammarschoolman, #12 of 681 🔗

That would involve logical thinking, too much to ask!

17983 Charles, replying to Charles, 19, #13 of 681 🔗

If you protest against the Lock down the police are heavy handed and aggressive, if it’s Black lives Matter, then it’s all softly softly. The police are not going to come out of this looking good and Cressida Dick needs retiring, quickly.

18172 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Charles, 11, #14 of 681 🔗

Cressida Dick should never have had the job. She was gold commander on the day Jean Charles de Menezes was killed in Stockwelll and was therefore ultimately responsible. At the inquest the jury recorded an open verdict because the coroner ordered them not to return one of unlawful killing.

18224 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella, 1, #15 of 681 🔗

Whoever shot de Menezes was responsible. No ‘voice over a radio’ is a valid reason for shooting someone.

(Not to say Dick is any use whatsoever.).

18433 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to JohnB, #16 of 681 🔗

Ill give you a clue

Menezes may have seen something he shouldnt on the london underground prior to the seven sevens

18553 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Bella, #17 of 681 🔗

She is a shambles. I once saw a copy of her “Incident Log” from that day that was doing the rounds at my workplace. Rather than contemporaneous notes to back up her decision making it was basically a load of random scribbles together with her holiday packing list. No joke.

18201 ▶▶ Joseph Collins, replying to Charles, 3, #18 of 681 🔗

She, along with other senior police grades are Common Purpose trained.

18350 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Charles, 4, #19 of 681 🔗

I think the ship has long since sailed on the Met’s reputation… the Menezes issue was just one in a long line of ignominious errors.

‘Sir’ Craig Mackay locking his car’s doors and driving away while PC Keith Palmer was being stabbed by an Islamist is another fine example.

Our whole nation’s police are a disgrace, and the rot set in a long time ago. As with most things I believe it can be traced back to balls that started rolling on 1st May 1997.

18049 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Edgar Friendly, 3, #21 of 681 🔗

And will this person be prosecuted for lying? Sadly unlikely..

18453 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #22 of 681 🔗

Probably retiring on the payoff from GSK.

17989 Mike Smith, 2, #23 of 681 🔗

This is a good channel I discovered (appeared in my recommended), from a proper journalist, on various issues including covid-19:

17997 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #24 of 681 🔗

Yo Toby , please correct the error in your comparison of Eden to Bojo. The former was ill during his prime ministership but he lived for another 20 years and saw Mrs T elected leader of the Conservative party.

Interesting observations of Covid19 in the Far East. Might there be a link to obesity there ? Vietnamese as you know seem to be skinny as the proverbial rake.I think this is very different in the overseas Chinese because a colleague of mine told me that many of the Covid patients in a London hospital he was familiar with were elderly obese overseas Chinese men.

18009 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #25 of 681 🔗

Perhaps they’re not fudging the numbers. Temp screenings are useless and Thailand had millions of Chinese visitors in before they locked down.

18011 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to South Coast Worker, 7, #26 of 681 🔗

No edit argh! They also don’t have a care home culture. South East Asian countries tend to look after their elderly relatives, or at least they can’t afford to send them to care homes, so you don’t get large concentrations of the most vulnerable people. And I would say obesity is also a factor.

18039 ▶▶ Major Bonkers, replying to Peter Thompson, #27 of 681 🔗

A very smart pair of glasses frames, though – anyone who knows where I can get a simile pair would be appreciated.

17999 drrobin, replying to drrobin, 82, #28 of 681 🔗

Toby – I’m bloody outraged.

You’ve done a fantastic job on this site, which I’ve followed and made a small donation to back in the days when posts received just a handful of comments.

You’ve offered a wealth of information outside of here, from your Telegraph articles, your podcasts such as that with James Delingpole, through to your useful re-tweets of important info on twitter. On the latter platform, you clearly receive a barrage of vile abuse for politely stating fact; well done tolerating the crap.

Via this site, you’ve offered a platform for so many folk to chat, and I’ve greatly appreciated many of the regular contributors – Rdawg, Farinances, Annie, IanP, BecJT, Biker… many more. I should bother to comment more but since the early days I don’t feel I’ve had much to add. I’ll miss the reads when this is over, perhaps I can find folk on Twitter.

It’s been comforting to read similar views and actions; for example seeing I wasn’t the only person to write to my 6yr old’s school stating I have no concerns regarding Covid-19, but have no intention of him returning under measures which are detrimental to his wellbeing, but clearly have no public health benefit.

Anyhow – all the way through this the lot of us have been incandescent about the approach taken to the lockdown & the economy. Every day folk comment saying “what can we do”, “I’m getting shirts made” etc. We know we can’t get away with protests with our rights curtailed – indeed we see a journalist bugged by the police for reporting on a tiny protest a few weeks ago, much to our annoyance.

And today? Bloody great crowds of people chanting outrageously at the police, whilst ironically being treated with way more tolerance than any vague dissent shown by us sceptics.

I’m blooding fuming. Fuming.

I only ever rant when I post, do I. Sorry, I’ll bugger off now.

18004 ▶▶ drrobin, replying to drrobin, 9, #29 of 681 🔗

ps – meant to write “don’t I”, not “do I”. Didn’t imply anyone had said I do. I do though. I can now be outraaged at myself for typos. Great day.

18391 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to drrobin, #30 of 681 🔗

I’m Type O; does that help?

18046 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to drrobin, 2, #31 of 681 🔗

And this is why I’m not very fond of the police.

18057 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 1, #32 of 681 🔗

(I used to say ‘doctors take the hippocratic oath, police take the hypocritic oath’…. but I can’t even say that now cause apparently all the doctors are loving it too)

18085 ▶▶▶ drrobin, replying to Farinances, 9, #33 of 681 🔗

From a personal perspective they’ve failed in the only two tasks I asked of them; finding a burglar, and a year later, catching the burglar who failed on a second incident I told them about 30 seconds after he tried the same door, providing them with a CCTV picture of him. They even seem to have lost my memory stick :/ I can’t offer more than a faceplam at how that wasn’t resolved in a small market town. Likewise, equally unimpressed seeing the manner of the policeman talking to James Delingpole reporting the other week.

…but I can only hope police have some bloody good intelligence and reasoned logic for allowing today’s protest. If it’s just so as not to annoy the rent-a-lefty protesters so much as to cause aggression much then it is inexcusable. The protests are deranged, but I can’t criticise folk protesting – inexcusability is because others weren’t allowed to. Clearly those politely commenting they don’t like lockdown whilst standing in a park, or those visiting their family are more suitable candidates to fine. Extremely low chance they’ll retort by damaging your police car, but that obviously the isn’t the reason for the dichotomy. I trust. I’m really looking forward to hearing what the reason for allowing this social-non-distancing is – I hope it’s a good explanation.

18213 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to drrobin, 17, #34 of 681 🔗

They are a shower of shit, mired in political virtue signalling rather than doing their actual job. They spend more time chasing people who tweet things they don’t like than thugs who beat up old ladies. Vile.

18279 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to drrobin, 8, #35 of 681 🔗

you only have to watch the new tv recruitment advert. its all “community this” and “protecting people that” – nothing about good old fashioned coppering and nicking criminals . over last couple of weeks i have watched “life on mars” and old episodes of “the Bill”. proper policing..
And as for Dick. never was someone more aptly named but then she ticks all the boxes. Gay, female, middle class oxbridge left wing intellectual family. accelerated police career — and incompetent

18302 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to mjr, 2, #36 of 681 🔗

Let’s face it, we didn’t watch Life on Mars for John Sims. We watched it for Phillip Glenister.

18413 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mike Smith, 9, #37 of 681 🔗

Agree. Many, many years ago, when I was about 12 and walking home from school, some yob told me to eff off (apropos of nothing). Went home and told my mum and she said the next day we would wait for him and she would give him what for. We drove along the road and when I pointed him out we screeched to a halt and she flew at him, pinned him against a wall and told him in no uncertain terms that no-one tells her little girl to eff off. She demanded he give her his name and address. He was absolutely terrified and mumbled his name. Trouble was it sounded like he said “Kevin Keegan” (who was pretty prominent back then) to which my mum replied “Don’t get bloody funny with me”. Anyway, we finally found out his name and address, called the fuzz who came round to speak to me to find out what had happened. They said “don’t worry, love, we’ll sort it out”. They went round to his house, roughed him up a bit, came back round to ours and told us he wouldn’t be bothering me again. Sorted. Can you imagine that happening now? It would have been my mum done for assault.

18075 ▶▶ Scotty87, replying to drrobin, 29, #38 of 681 🔗

Great post, Robinh.

It’s so typical of the liberal left to out themselves as the vile hypocrites that we know they are. An opportunity to virtue-signal is simply too powerful a call for these people, and they are so drunk on their own moral righteousness that they either ignore or completely fail to comprehend the numerous clashes within their own warped belief system.

For instance, they are fiercely pro-LGBT while simultaneously being pro-Islam, they are anti-capitalist whilst being pro-EU, they are pro-lockdown but think nothing of gathering shoulder-to-shoulder in enormous numbers when the opportunity to virtue-signal presents itself.

How many of those protesters and media elites were foaming at the mouth over the actions of Dominic Cummings, but now see it perfectly acceptible to rub alongside each other, chanting their hollow slogans and taking selfies for their shitty Instagram stories? And the mainstream media, completely in lockstep with the “woke” crowd, are petrified to criticise such the appalling rabble for the fear of being labelled “racists”, “white supremacists”, “klansmen” or whatever pathetic terms these idiots like to use.

This whole sorry episode is hopefully yet another nail in the coffin of the right-on, bien-pensant crowd who persist in revealing to us how utterly detached from reality they really are.

18100 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to drrobin, 18, #39 of 681 🔗

To be honest, I have absolutely no issue with the black community organising and protesting, good for them, more of that please, because we are a free country. And those communities will have been over policed through this, and are generally harangued with stop and search etc (can you imagine lockdown on an inner city London estate?). The difference is the police knows that everybody knows it. We unfortunately are written off as fringe, or tin foil hatters, or nutters. I don’t think anyone would dare do that to BLM (quite right too). It is a double standard, but that’s not on BLM, it’s on the police.

Also, I know we’ve had to deal with some trigger happy little hitlers through all this, but I have read quite a bit from senior officers warning that lockdown would do terrible damage to the painstaking goodwill built up over years of community policing, so I can see why, on balance, they decided to take a lighter touch, because lockdown will already have made things fractious. In some ways, I can see why the police would have been in a jam.

And if it gets this whole thing moving, and people out and mixing and organising, and the police standing idly by whilst they do it, then all to the good.

I think we have to be REALLY careful, I mean really really careful not to make this in any way about race. The reason why we are now saddled with ridiculous hate crime legislation (so calling a transvestite ‘him’ now gets you cautioned) actually came out of very good motives, after the Stephen Lawrence case (if you are not familiar with the details of that, really suggest you look that up). The upshot was the police were deemed to be so hopelessly and institutionally racist, they could not possibly police themselves on serious prejudice, and they had to report all incidents in a standard way. The black community have very very real grievances (deaths in custody is another) with the police, and I think we should respect that.

I think perhaps the moment is here for a serious organised London lockdown protest, my instinct is on a big scale, the police would do the exact same thing, and just leave us to it.

I do understand your frustration, but one group of people protesting valid grievances doesn’t take away from ours.

18122 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to BecJT, 5, #40 of 681 🔗

Bec well said, if I could give you 100 up votes for that I would!

18311 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to DressageRider, #41 of 681 🔗


18145 ▶▶▶ drrobin, replying to BecJT, 7, #42 of 681 🔗

Very good commentary, as ever BecJT. I really can’t disagree with that. Indeed, as I said above, I don’t object to folk protesting, though I do feel more comfortable with those protests that are coherent and have clear aims. I think much of the frustration I feel is how weak by comparison we have all been with voicing our particularly concern. Small enough in number are those who have objected, they just got told to go home again and stop misbehaving. Albeit, that protest too clearly had a mix of views axes to grind. You’re quite right, we’re probably overdue a sizeable lockdown protest. I fear it would blur into todays protest if it happened now. I also feel disillusioned; the damage to the economy is done, and many of us have been are ignoring the rules anyhow. The only real thing that can be changed now is who pays for it all. And that will have its own protests too I imagine. Argh.
I do still feel uncomfortable & sorely frustrated that the difference in police response might be interpreted as indicating today’s protest is a valid grievance, but those objecting to lockdown in a small number were not valid. Whilst I’m watching to see what happens next closely, I’d counter my frustration at the police by offering a degree of sympathy; as you rightly say, the lockdown has indeed undone a great deal of police-community relationship building – it is unquestionably the lockdown with which I’ve always taken the greatest issue.
I’m not sure this response followed any logic at all, but you made a jolly good post and I feel rude just ignoring it. Only I’ve been scribbling whilst playing rock/paper/scissors/sausage/fryingpan with a 6 year old who’s little interested in going to be, and it transpires it’s a sodding complicated game and used a good percentage of my brain. You can probably see why I’ve generally avoided contributing to the otherwise more well-thought-out discussions you all engage in with more commitment. I do appreciate reading them though.

18318 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to drrobin, 2, #43 of 681 🔗

It’s alright, this whole thing is mind bendingly incoherent I agree. And as you know, I think identity politics is a pile of crap, and I’m well aware the posh white kids who call themselves ‘Antifa’ (there’s none more fascist than and antifascist!) have inserted themselves into the whole thing, as much to the annoyance of the black community as anyone else.

I’ve just seen an excellent vid from Nashville, where a black guy tells the suburban white kids to go home, and stop setting fire to stuff, as they have no idea what they are meddling with, and they don’t need white people to tell them how to protest. In fact I find the whole privileged white kid thinking they are helping by presuming to speak for people about ‘oppression’ just toe curlingly embarrassing, and kinda symptomatic of the whole mess we seem to be in in the ‘culture wars’.

That said, structural racism is literally the worst evil humans have inflicted on each other, and my instinct is to stay out of it and let those communities advocate for themselves.

PS for those with the time and inclination a bit of digging on the Covid 19 Mutual Aid network, you’ll be surprised what comes up – I refused to get involved with the local group in my community as they have an extremely shady background!

18211 ▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to BecJT, 15, #44 of 681 🔗

They are not protesting valid grievances. The sad death of Mr. Floyd is nothing to do with the UK.

18232 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Judith Day, 5, #45 of 681 🔗

I’d quite like to see them outside the Chinese embassy protesting their re-education camps.

No? Tumbleweed?

18322 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Farinances, 2, #46 of 681 🔗

Did you ever see that University Anti Fascist Soc explaining why Gulags weren’t bad? Absolute idiots. My worry with BLM (totally support moves to dismantle structural racism) will be weaponised and hijacked by the same identity politics idiots who spend their time trying to get statues taken down, and do nothing to demand better community funding and facilities for the people they claim to speak for.

18394 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 5, #47 of 681 🔗

My worry with BLM (totally support moves to dismantle structural racism) will be weaponised and hijacked by the same identity politics idiots

The whole concept of “structural racism” is a fantasy made up by precisely the “identity politics idiots” you decry.

And though it is a fantasy based upon political dogma rather than reality, it is nevertheless a hugely dangerous and damaging tool that has demolished a number of establishment structures, such as the Met police, and allowed them to be reconstructed under the full control of said identity politics idiots, to serve their purposes rather than the purposes for which those structures were built to serve society.

18466 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, #48 of 681 🔗

Going to disagree with you there, structural racism is not a fantasy. Really surprised at your stance Mark.

18476 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 2, #49 of 681 🔗

I’m a political dissident, and I am not constrained by societal dogmas that I’ve seen imposed on our society over decades, by many of the groups and techniques you’ve just noticed imposing coronapanic upon us.

Structural racism is obviously a fantasy construct. Institutions don’t have sentiments such as “racism”. The idea that entire institutions should be reformed to comply with ideological dogma such as antiracism is clearly a politically motivated scam to reshape those institutions to suit the lobbyists pushing it.

Surprised you haven’t noticed that.

18320 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Judith Day, -4, #50 of 681 🔗

You don’t think there are valid grievances in the UK about the racism of the police?

18373 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 10, #51 of 681 🔗

Not that are overwhelmingly significant – that’s “BBC truth”, not reality. People from every group have issues with the police from time to time, and in general groups that have more problems with the police are the ones that tend to be more physically confrontational, for various reasons. Black youths were stopped and searched more mostly because they were more likely to be carrying knives and drugs, and more likely to give “lip”. Any “racist” motivation (which undoubtedly existed) was probably secondary to the general tendency amongst police officers to seek to put aggressive and bolshy youths in their place.

As I pointed out the other day, more whites in the US are killed by police than blacks, and although the proportion is much higher amongst blacks, it remains the fact that this is not a problem unique to particular groups. And the statistics demonstrate incontrovertibly that blacks in the US are more likely to be involved in the kinds of street crimes that involve encounters with the police (if political correctness worries you, you can explain that by arguments about poverty if you want). And culturally, imo there is certainly a higher tendency towards physical confrontation in US and UK black culture – I think you have to be in pretty deep, dogmatic denial to insist this is not the case.

Anecdotally, I have witnessed this myself in this country, when a group of three youths were asked by police to provide identification (because they had trespassed – probably innocently in fact), it was the black youth who kicked off about it and ranted and shouted, while the other two just complied pretty meekly. And it was absolutely clear that the black youth’s response was justified in his mind because of antiracist dogma – he expected to be picked on because of his race and “knew” that it was ok to get angry about it. Meanwhile it was equally clear that the police were terrified of being accused of racism and bent over backwards to accommodate him rather than just arresting him as they would have a white youth who had similarly defied them.

This is the society we have built over the past few decades.

18299 ▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to BecJT, 1, #52 of 681 🔗

At the freedom protest in Hyde Park two weeks ago, nineteen people were arrested for gathering. At the much larger protest yesterday, three people were arrested for gathering and two for police assault. This does seem shocking, but it may be at least partly because much has changed in the last two weeks: we have had the Cummings incident, and the lockdown has been loosened so that six people may now gather. As the police have said, lockdown is now “unenforceable” and, though that doesn’t in any way justify their actions two weeks ago, it may justify their more lenient approach this weekend.

I agree with Bec: as far as I am concerned, I welcome any peaceful protests and gatherings which flout the rules, and, for me, Black Lives Matter is a worthy cause. I may even join next week’s protest.

My 23 year old daughter texted me yesterday: “I think the black rights movement is going to play a very interesting role in ending lockdown. Young people on social media now encouraging each other to go and protest etc, no longer shaming or banging on about corona”. I asked her why they want to protest about the lack of black rights and freedoms, but aren’t bothered about the loss of everyone’s rights and freedoms. She replied that they don’t think we’ve lost our rights and freedoms.

As for the view that Mr Floyd’s death is nothing to do with the UK, the protesters’ view is that international protests by white people will prevent the US from allowing his murderer to get away with it.

18321 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to bluefreddy, 1, #53 of 681 🔗

I think good on them for flouting lockdown (caveated with my comments about the Antifa / Identity Politics idiots who seem to want to hijack every cause and make it about them, which ironically seems the ultimate in white privilege).

18330 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to bluefreddy, 3, #54 of 681 🔗

She replied that they don’t think we’ve lost our rights and freedoms.” …. Smoking gun right there.

18368 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to ianp, 1, #55 of 681 🔗

It’s all fine as long as their iPhones keep working

18468 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edgar Friendly, #56 of 681 🔗

The iphones will keep working because that’s how they’ll track us and could (probably will) be the only way to pay for things.

18390 ▶▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to bluefreddy, #57 of 681 🔗

The met police are now reported as saying they arrested 23 people yesterday.

18425 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to bluefreddy, 6, #58 of 681 🔗

As for the view that Mr Floyd’s death is nothing to do with the UK, the protesters’ view is that international protests by white people will prevent the US from allowing his murderer to get away with it .”

You of course have no legitimate idea whether this was a “murder” or not, nor is it any business of yours to give judgement anyway. At most you can leap to a wholly unqualified assumption based on incomplete information and prejudice.

And your justification for people in the UK interfering appears to be: it’s the business of people in the UK because people in the UK can potentially influence the outcome of a criminal investigation in a foreign country. Can you see the gap in your reasoning there?

Regardless, it’s pretty fatuous to think that the US authorities are going to give a moment’s attention to a bunch of virtue signalling foreign opportunists seeking to exploit the issue, when they are facing open riots on their own streets about the issue. These protests here are all about the personal and political issues of the protesters here, and their attempt to exploit this death to further their own ends, and nothing really to do with how this incident itself will be dealt with.

18426 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Mark, 1, #59 of 681 🔗

Not to mention how the unrest will generate numerous ‘excess’ deaths by violence, and the destruction of livelihoods and property (speaking only of the US, for the moment…). That’s a funny way to ask for justice.

18427 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #60 of 681 🔗

Funny how these responses supposedly justified by compassion always seem to end up costing more innocent lives…

18434 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluefreddy, 5, #61 of 681 🔗

“I asked her why they want to protest about the lack of black rights and freedoms, but aren’t bothered about the loss of everyone’s rights and freedoms. She replied that they don’t think we’ve lost our rights and freedoms.”

And therein lies the problem with a lot of our young now – they get worked up over something that happened elsewhere and nowt to do with us but aren’t worried about our rights at home being eroded by this current situation. Its the lack of perspective and critical thinking that our schools and universities have failed to impart.

18482 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #62 of 681 🔗

Perhaps it’s because they identify with American/black culture over their native culture.

18518 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Edgar Friendly, 2, #63 of 681 🔗

Very likely. Not helped that our MSM love to report anything and everything about America to the point that its the headline news and what we should be concerned about in our own country is pushed to page 65.

The Guardian is guilty of that sort of thing. My father-in-law who is left leaning read it for years has now find that he’s finding it unreadable and one of his complaints is the Graun’s obsession with America.

18448 ▶▶▶▶ BlackWhiteAndEveryoneElsesLibertiesMatter, replying to bluefreddy, #64 of 681 🔗

“Black Lives Matter is a worthy cause. I may even join next week’s protest”
Remember, while lockdown is a severe violation of the civil liberties of everyone it is particularly bad for those with darker skin who are typically subject to even more oppressive policing and are often poor and have particularly small and uncomfortable hoems particularly far from green spaces. I think Black Lives Matter should be supporting the anti-lockdown movement if they truly care about ensuring people can lead lives worth living. You might turn up with some anti-lockdown placards, perhaps, given the sympathies of others at the protest, with a particular focus on how lockdown is racist as well as generally evil.

18353 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 8, #65 of 681 🔗

The reason we have the hate crime legislation and hate speech laws is precisely because people do not resist the argument that identity trumps even-handedness.

The idea that it’s ok to organise as black or homosexual or “trans” or feminist or whatever, but not as white or male, is precisely the poison that divides society into identity groups and drives people towards extremes, even while it serves political ends that make the problems worse.

In the short run it suppresses the dissent that is most troublesome to the powerful. In the long run it destroys society and leaves the nation weak and divided. Antiracism is every bit as hate-filled and divisive as any other extremist ideology, and far more prevalent, because it is officially encouraged and massively pushed by the mainstream media, and because it is hugely subsidised. The identity lobbies pay an awful lot of salaries and budgets in modern Britain.

18365 ▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Mark, #66 of 681 🔗

well said

18480 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mark, #67 of 681 🔗

Hmm…. I think we’re in danger of drifting into topics that will cause this little community to fracture.

Certainly my views on this topic are not widely held. At least publicly.

18485 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, 1, #68 of 681 🔗

Perhaps – which illustrates the degree to which certain legitimate political opinions have successfully been made taboo, by much the same methods and groups as have imposed the coronapanic.

Relevant today I think in response to the particular focus of the lockdown piece above on the evil BLM-ers’ demonstration. Probably won’t arise much on other days.

18461 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, 2, #69 of 681 🔗

Brilliant post, Bec. It struck me that the anti-lockdown protesters were the first to obviously defy the rules. They were small in number and testing the water while keeping it peaceful.

Any anti-racist protest is going to attract much bigger and infinitely more volatile crowds.

I agree with you: Let’s hope the big coverage of the demo, with loads of police not social-distancing and not a muzzle in sight, will help to wake people up and empower the silent anti-lockdown grumblers to actively take a stand.

18372 ▶▶ Barnabas, replying to drrobin, 7, #70 of 681 🔗

Excellent post Robinh.
I was fuming 2 weeks ago about the arrest of people at Speaker’s Corner who were speaking out against the lockdown.
I was fuming again yesterday when I saw a mass gathering in Trafalgar Square where the Met only arrested a handful of people.
The situation we have in this country is that the British Police have been politicised and have become aligned with the orthodoxy of the liberal left and are applying policing of this country accordingly.

Remember their pathetic handling of the Extinction Rebellion protesters in central London last year. It was an absolute disgrace that the business of London was being impeded by a bunch of virtue signalling, liberal left, well-funded, but seriously ignorant individuals that the Met enjoyed dancing and skateboarding with.

You should listen to Mike Graham on Talk Radio this morning. He is also fuming about the hypocrisy by the Met and the Mayor of London over the weekend.

18001 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 42, #71 of 681 🔗

I think the blog name should be changed to Social Distancing Sceptics. I hate everything about “social distancing” and the nonsense of its continued existence.

I’m also curious how single people are meant to date and start new relationships? Do we really live in a country where it is forbidden to hug people who don’t live in the same household? We’ve banned shaking hands, touching, kissing, physical intimacy…what has become of the so-called “free” and democratic world?

It feels like we are living in a science fiction film from a dystopian future. Does anyone remember the film “Demolition Man” with Sylvester Stallone and Wesley Snipes? Sex was forbidden and instead they had to do it using telepathy-controlled probes on their heads. Well, are we that far now from this becoming a reality?! Aaarrggh!

18014 ▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to RDawg, 12, #72 of 681 🔗

I’ll see you in the sewer for some rat burger. Bloody love that film, and the miserable dystopia created by unelected goons that are only doing things for our own good is becoming increasingly accurate.

18017 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to RDawg, 27, #73 of 681 🔗

Can’t stand the whole “social distancing” thing, it’s inhuman. As social creatures we need to have physical touch etc like hugging. I think people believe it’s only for a short time period and aren’t truly seeing the implications going forward.

18074 ▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to ambwozere, -30, #74 of 681 🔗

Its forever. Why can’t you accept that

18078 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to GrantM, 5, #75 of 681 🔗

Oh do go and do one. Can’t believe you are so stupid. No it’s not forever, not even for now. Your provocations are pointless.

18084 ▶▶▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to Bella, -28, #76 of 681 🔗

It is you blooming idiot. Enjoy the second wave and I’ll laugh at you and say I told you so

18109 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to GrantM, 6, #77 of 681 🔗

Ah. The second wave theory. Like the second coming…

18134 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adele Bull, replying to GrantM, 6, #78 of 681 🔗

You’ll laugh if there’s a second wave? Wow. Humanity alive and well with you then…

18212 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to GrantM, 8, #79 of 681 🔗

I’ll say it again you fucking wanker, ‘FUCK RIGHT OFF YOU CUNT!’

Sorry everyone, I had to get that off my chest….

My apologies.

18243 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #80 of 681 🔗

Winston, this is exactly what trolls want, to provoke a reaction. Just ignore. A shame there is n way to report trolls on this site.

18256 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to GrantM, 2, #81 of 681 🔗

from where i’m sitting you look like you’re drowning not waving

18189 ▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to GrantM, 2, #82 of 681 🔗

Troll alert.

18019 ▶▶ IanE, replying to RDawg, 2, #83 of 681 🔗

Bromide in the water will be their next move!

18044 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to IanE, 1, #84 of 681 🔗

For ‘our own good’ natch

18020 ▶▶ Nic, replying to RDawg, 7, #85 of 681 🔗

Very true but it will fade away I’m.sure , as for the government they v given up they are hoping it all just fades away and are slowly leaving things up to us , the people.

18037 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Nic, 14, #86 of 681 🔗

I just had a drink with my neighbours in their garden. No unsocial distancing and hugged them when I left. Oops and the day before I’m supposedly allowed to.

18041 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Nic, 9, #87 of 681 🔗

I have no doubt social distancing will fade away, but I fear that Britain will be the slowest country out of lockdown and the slowest country to relax distancing measures. It’s painful.

18076 ▶▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to RDawg, -18, #88 of 681 🔗

Too bad

18033 ▶▶ Beefy, replying to RDawg, 1, #89 of 681 🔗

I just assume everyone is one by ine ignoring that now as reality sets in.

18036 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to RDawg, 1, #90 of 681 🔗

The film I think of is Children of Men, in which humanity is on the brink of extinction as the last conception was something like years ago.

18038 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Gossamer, #91 of 681 🔗

That should say “something like 27 years ago.” Oh, for an edit button!

18338 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Gossamer, #92 of 681 🔗

The one filmed in Hastings? Place still looks like a dystopian shitpit!

18040 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to RDawg, 1, #93 of 681 🔗

Mellow greetings, what seems to be your boggle?

18042 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to RDawg, #94 of 681 🔗

i’m now changing my screen name in honour of demolition man…

18043 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to RDawg, 1, #95 of 681 🔗


18051 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to RDawg, 3, #96 of 681 🔗

“I like to think, I like to read. I’m into freedom of speech and freedom of choice… I wanna run through the streets naked with green Jello all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to. Okay, pal? I’ve seen the future, you know what it is? It’s a 47-year-old virgin sittin’ around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake singing “I’m an Oscar-Meyer Wiener”.”

18054 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to RDawg, 3, #97 of 681 🔗

Totally agree! The ‘elbow bump’ is NOT a suitable replacement for shaking hands or hugging…

18110 ▶▶▶ Anne, replying to Carrie, #98 of 681 🔗

I was having this conversation with my son yesterday

18471 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 3, #99 of 681 🔗

The handshake was originally a sign that you weren’t carrying a weapon, so symbolises peace. To me, the ridiculous elbow bump resembles a nudge in the ribs and is therefore aggressive.

18065 ▶▶ guy153, replying to RDawg, 8, #100 of 681 🔗

Also your immune system is meant to adapt to things, especially when you’re a child.

The recent study from Singapore showed that SARS1 gave you immunity against SARS2 even after 17 years. Assuming SARS2 didn’t come out of a lab, those bats and their viruses are still happily evolving away and SARS3 will be along in another 17 years or so.

It may result in nasty illnesses for some of those twenty-somethings who missed the opportunity to have an asymptomatic SARS2 infection and mild Covid-19 back in 2020 because their parents kept them out of school.

18073 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to RDawg, -36, #101 of 681 🔗

Your gonna have to get used to it. Without a vaccine, this is our future. Get used to it

18106 ▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to GrantM, 12, #102 of 681 🔗

Toby can you get rid of this guy? This is not free speech, it is trolling. Annoymous is an irritating, illiterate little fly who is trying to disrupt our constructive conversations.

18137 ▶▶▶▶ Adele Bull, replying to Sceptique, 4, #103 of 681 🔗

I was just about to ask this, can he be blocked?

18179 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Adele Bull, 4, #104 of 681 🔗

I’ll endorse that. He’s (she’s?) just being an irritant for the sake of it.

18192 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Bella, 14, #105 of 681 🔗

Nah, keep him on… Reminds us all how pathetically insane the the real enemy is

18472 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sceptique, 1, #106 of 681 🔗

Ignore him – including stopping the downticks!!

18214 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to GrantM, 6, #107 of 681 🔗

🤣 if I ever meet you for real I’ll elbow bump good and proper

18455 ▶▶▶ BlackWhiteAndEveryoneElsesLibertiesMatter, replying to GrantM, #108 of 681 🔗

Our future, Mr Anonymous, can be like our past. Where brave people accepted that there was a chance they’d keel over from some horrid untreatable disease, but gone on with work and joy anyway. They had cholera, typhus, bubonic plague and bacterial infections before antibiotics to contend with, COVID-19 pales into insignificance by comparison. COVID-19 reduces life expectancy for anyone, at any given age, to the life expectancy someone of that age would have had during the 1970s. Now nobody is happy about wiping out several decades of health improvement, but living slightly “dangerously” is certainly better than being trapped in a surveillance based, every aspect of life regulated, totalitarian “new normal”. There might even be a vaccine which works, so we might only have to live the “risky” life for a year or two.

18117 ▶▶ ianric, replying to RDawg, 6, #109 of 681 🔗

In the novel 1984 sex was banned. If you are a puritan who hated sex and relationships, the coronavirus restrictions would be a dream. Vernon Coleman had a theory coronavirus restrictions are used as a form of population control which made sense. If a couple don’t live together until recently they couldn’t meet and now they can only meet outdoors and can’t go into each other’s homes. They can’t go to nightclubs, theatres, pubs and restaurants where couples go for dates and these restrictions make it impossible to maintain relationships. I wonder have coronavirus restrictions resulted in partners who don’t live together splitting up due to coronavirus restrictions.

For single people who would like a partner, they would be put off looking for a partner as restrictions would make a relationship unviable.

Pubs and nightclubs wher people meet partners are closed. Events such as speed dating, single holidays etc are currently banned. Restrictions close the avenues people meet new partners. If couples split and people can’t form new relationships, they will not have children.

18127 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to ianric, 4, #110 of 681 🔗

Coleman’s theory is slightly disproved by the actions of our own dear MPs and scientific advisors, where there is a will there is a way!

18153 ▶▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to DressageRider, -15, #111 of 681 🔗

Cause Vernon Coleman is a discredited moron

18170 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to GrantM, 1, #112 of 681 🔗

Really ?

18301 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to GrantM, 1, #113 of 681 🔗

Well if you say so, Annoymous, it must be untrue.

18249 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DressageRider, #114 of 681 🔗

The situation’s awful, but
They always find a way to rut.

18149 ▶▶ Ten, replying to RDawg, #115 of 681 🔗

The people would rather live in the sewer underground than live in a world where your autonomy is taken away. The film is tongue and cheek, this isn’t.

18002 MoH, replying to MoH, 22, #116 of 681 🔗

Looking at the photos in the Guardian of so many people voting with their feet and saying eff you as they enjoy the weather. Its not like they (we!) have pubs or restaurants to go to. We have the hypocrisy of the protests where the lockdown protest two weeks ago in Hyde Park was met by police harrassing the the (peaceful) people there, chased around Speakers Corner, the very home of free speech, while protesters were welcomed to Trafalgar Square (establishment promotion?) over someone killed by a policeman in another country and not a dicky bird on ‘social distancing’. We have more flaws in their nonsense. More people speaking out against the hoax/over reaction. It doesnt matter how ridiculous it is, the government, media and corrupt institutions still double down and shows no sign of stopping. What will it take to stop this nightmare?

18018 ▶▶ Nic, replying to MoH, 11, #117 of 681 🔗

When people run out.of money! I think by October things will be a whole lot different nobodies had any real hardship.yet.

18025 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MoH, 9, #118 of 681 🔗

When more jobs go and businesses go bust. I think we’re already seeing the unemployment rate already up, that would wake people up.

18474 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #119 of 681 🔗

But the damage will be irreperable by then.

18519 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #120 of 681 🔗

Unfortunately you’re right there and I fear that when people finally wake up, its too late by then.

18005 Tim, replying to Tim, 48, #121 of 681 🔗

Was the Government Really Following “the Science”?
This is a sickeningly depressing and disappointing report. It confirms my fear that Johnson is nothing more than an opportunistic populist who seeks to follow public opinion to maintain his popularity rather than show real leadership.

To save his reputation he needs to very quickly grow some balls and lead us back to the Old Normal. Vulnerable people need to be protected, of course, but the rest of society needs to be fast-tracked back to work, back to school and back to the life we loved.

18012 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tim, 12, #122 of 681 🔗

Much too late to save his reputation – that went out the door with HS2, Huawei, Net Zero, and covid-handling; let alone the earlier do-or-die, dead-in-a-ditch rhetoric!

18190 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to Tim, #123 of 681 🔗

It’s not Johnson.

It’s Cummings.

He’s the one that wanted Lockdown.

Turns out Mr Game theory is a bit of a thicko and didn’t understand that this isn’t and was never going to be the Spanish flu.

18209 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Invunche, 5, #124 of 681 🔗

It’s not Cummings.

Well it is. IT’S ALL OF THEM.

Seriously, where have people got this idea that every single person in government is under the spell of Cummings from? He’s one person. I’ve no doubt he’s influential, but not that influential. Do not take the heat off Boris et al by concentrating too much on Cummings.

18225 ▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Tim, 3, #125 of 681 🔗

Like his fellow ‘world leaders’, he was simply following orders. The only question is from whom. If you think that is a so-called conspiracy theory, you’ve learnt nothing over the past three months.

18015 IanE, 10, #126 of 681 🔗

If you care to analyze the Boris cabinet, you will rapidly discover that they are somewhat to the left of Blair. So yes, it was left-wingers!

18016 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 44, #127 of 681 🔗

So if the decision to lock down was a political one, and against SAGE advice, then why did Professor John Edmunds come out against easing the lockdown in that press conference? What’s changed? If anything, data has come out over these past two months indicating that SARS-CoV-2 is less dangerous than previously though, not more dangerous. I wonder whether these scientists are just enjoying their time in the limelight, given that they’ve had no other opportunities for nationwide fame in the past, and they’re also conscious of how history will judge them, so they want to appear cautious.

It’s strange reading about the SAGE minutes now and reflecting on how this whole dreadful saga has unfolded. I always suspected that the lockdown was borne out of a need to avoid political suicide rather than actual scientific advice. I actually remember the weekend of 13th-15th March, the last ‘normal’ weekend for me, so incredibly vividly for a number of reasons. Friday 13th March (unlucky for some) was the first day the company I used to work for implemented its ‘work from home’ policy, and it was also the last weekend I saw my boyfriend before we were forcibly separated. I remember going out for a walk after work while my boyfriend was napping and talking to my mum on the phone about the government’s strategy. We both agreed that it was a good idea – shield the vulnerable and let the virus pass through the remainder of the population, obtaining herd immunity. We both recognised that completely shutting down the economy and drastically limiting people’s civil liberties would be just too disproportionate a response. Other European countries had started locking down/closing various things by this stage and I remember feeling proud to live in a country which seemed to be holding its nerve and taking a much more common sense approach rather than just caving in to panic. Up until this point, a lot of the science mentioned at the daily briefing made sense and it looked as if the UK would live up to its reputation for being sensible and proportionate in the face of crisis.

My boyfriend and I went into town on Saturday 14th – things were still rather normal, lots of people going into shops and cafés. Public transport was still reasonably full. The only thing that seemed out of the ordinary was that pharmacists and the like had totally sold out of soap/hand sanitiser, and the supermarket shelves were devoid of pasta, tinned foods, etc.

However, I got a creeping suspicion that the government was going to crack one way or another – and this was on the Sunday, before the Imperial report even reared its ugly, ugly head. I’m very tuned in to social media and the internet having grown up with these things, and I’m perhaps more sensitive than the average person to what’s going on in the world, so I clearly perceived the fact that the public mood was quickly changing in favour of lockdown. Given that we don’t have proper Conservatives in office, just populists in blue rosettes, I knew they didn’t have any backbone and would give in to the baying of the hoi polloi once it got loud enough. I remember saying goodbye to my boyfriend on the Sunday and watching the bus bear him away into the weak, pale sunshine of that spring afternoon – I cried because deep down I knew that I wouldn’t be seeing him again for a very, very long time.

Then the Imperial report appeared on the 16th March. I read about it in the Telegraph and I actually thought it was just MSM scaremongering at first. I hoped that the government was merely spooked, and would take the model with a pinch of salt given the advice from its own scientific advisors and hold firm in its common-sense mitigation approach, but I knew that a week later life would become unrecognisable, and I was right.

I am sure someone much cleverer than me will eventually unpick this chain of events, which fell like dominoes to lead us to this sorry state of affairs.

18026 ▶▶ Paul Seale, replying to Poppy, 7, #128 of 681 🔗

He’s a scientist, probably in a well paid job with a big mortgage. Say what needs to be said to pay the bills or push your agenda. See climate change for details.

18131 ▶▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Paul Seale, 6, #129 of 681 🔗

For many years, many of these SAGE scientists would have been rather obscure figures outside their direct fields of interest. Now they can get their mugs on the TV all the time. Ferguson loved it, I also notice Adam Kucharski is rather prominent on twitter trying to flog his book. I’ve even seen a scientist I know and work with getting name-checked in the media.

More worrying, is the extra-curricular activities of some of these characters. I have no doubt some of these tossers see this as an opportunity to try out their, frankly, weird ideas like social bubbles and other rot.

18048 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Poppy, 6, #130 of 681 🔗

Yup. I really want to know why all these scientists now seem to be lying through their bared teeth.

18062 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 7, #131 of 681 🔗

You do have to wonder if the fact that a large number of politicians, scientists and government ‘advisers’ have sold out to Bill Gates – who has made no secret of his plans to vaccinate the world – has a lot to do with it. Also the EU has at least since 2018 had plans to introduce an immunity passport…

18126 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Poppy, 7, #132 of 681 🔗

Hope you see you boyfriend again soon, one way or another.

18346 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Poppy, 1, #133 of 681 🔗

Poppy- I hope you get to see your man again, soon. Maybe absence will make the heart grow fonder.

18022 Paul Seale, 10, #134 of 681 🔗

Anyone else planning on burning down their hometown under the auspices of all lives (not just black ones) matter?

No, didn’t think so.

We really need to pool our resources and buy part of the globe because if we don’t this is it ad finitum.

18023 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #135 of 681 🔗

Simon Dolan appears to have set up a great looking site. I’m hoping that this could grow into a political movement.

Check it out https://www.keepbritainfree.com/

18063 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #136 of 681 🔗

His Twitter feed is also worth keeping an eye on!

18067 ▶▶ Marcus, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #137 of 681 🔗

Thanks for mentioning. It’s a well-made video which unfortunately made me angry enough to nearly smash the laptop up!

18028 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #138 of 681 🔗

I am sure I’m not the only person still asking what part Cummings played in the Sage meetings of 18 and 23 March and why the SAGE reluctance to recommend the lockdown down was overridden by the Government on 23 March. Commings is not mentioned on the list of attendees:

We are told on both sets of minutes: ‘Participants who were Observers and Government Officials were not consistently recorded therefore this may not be a complete list’

And yet: This was also covered by the DM, DT and BBC etc. in April.

And this, according to Bloomberg: ‘Also joining the meeting on March 18 was Demis Hassabis, Chief Executive Officer of Alphabet Inc.’s DeepMind Technologies, which works in artificial intelligence’. Also covered here :

I do not think Cummings should be let off his part in this disastrous lockdown. His breaking of the rules, bad as it was, is a clever distraction and it continues to work well.

18066 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #140 of 681 🔗

Alphabet also owns Google, Utube and Verily, a pharmaceutical company in a joint venture with Glaskosmithkline to make electronic chip inserts in vaccines for the eventual immunity passports. .All looking a bit cosy if you ask me, especially when the stated ‘solution’ to end any future lockdowns and social distancing is ‘immunity passports’.

18103 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sceptique, 2, #141 of 681 🔗


18247 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #142 of 681 🔗

Hassabis was an attendee at the 2018 Bilderberg Group meeting.

18559 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark H, #143 of 681 🔗

Quel surprise!

18029 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 2, #144 of 681 🔗

Here is the ITV coverage of this afternoon’s London demonstrations.


There doesn’t seem to be any sound. So, for the best viewing experience, go to “Settings” and set to double speed.
Then open a new tab, and set this soundtrack playing on audio while you watch the ITV footage:


I guarantee this will brighten up your evening

18032 ▶▶ Paul B, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 1, #145 of 681 🔗

I thoroughly enjoyed that!

18034 ▶▶ Paul Seale, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 7, #146 of 681 🔗

Palestinian flags, sure fire sign of middle class youths looking for something to do.

18246 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Paul Seale, #147 of 681 🔗

It’s ‘yoof’, not ‘youths’. Modern days, modern ways, modern spelling.

18560 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #148 of 681 🔗

Wow, that was a lot of people. Who organised it?

18045 A13, replying to A13, 13, #149 of 681 🔗

“It’s all Bullsh*t” – 3 Leaks that Sink the Covid Narrative

18047 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to A13, #150 of 681 🔗

A brilliant article!

18093 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to A13, #151 of 681 🔗

Good article,

18314 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to A13, #152 of 681 🔗

Does anyone else remember watching a video clip of one of the early US daily briefings when the guy at the podium says something along the lines of “we are doing a dry run” and Trump leans over and says “you should have told us?”.

Will try and find the link again and post it.

18050 guy153, replying to guy153, 4, #153 of 681 🔗

The ONS estimate was 54000 day which was divided by 7 and rounded up to give that 8000 a day that “scientists” were pronouncing to the Guardian and teachers unions were then jumping on.

So I suppose you could say your chances of catching Covid on any given day are 8000/60m or 1 in 7500.

Actually though as I posted yesterday this estimate by the ONS of 0.24% currently infected (which that 54000 figure is related to) requires a test specificity of better than 99.76%.

The PCR test is at least that specific on paper (and the ONS give a 95CI which will factor whatever it is in) but that’s calibrated against never-infected people. It is known that the PCR test can give false positives on recovered patients because it can detect RNA fragments from dead viruses. I don’t know its specificity for active infections in a population where about 10% are recovered but it needs to be better than 99.76%.

I say all this out of interest. The number of current infections and newly acquired infections is not a cause for concern. Note also that there are more than 8000 recoveries per day.

18121 ▶▶ John P, replying to guy153, #154 of 681 🔗

How is “recovery” from sars-cov-2 infection determined?

18177 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to John P, 1, #155 of 681 🔗

I suppose officially if you test negative in a few PCR tests. If you had symptoms and feel better then obviously you are recovered (and would test negative most of the time).

18208 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to guy153, 1, #156 of 681 🔗

But most people who have mild infection are just…. automatically recovered after their 1 week of sniffles? If they were doing proper ‘recovery’ figures they’d be massive, surely.

Which explains why they’re not publicising them.

18625 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Farinances, #157 of 681 🔗

Well basically anyone who isn’t dead a few weeks after infection (and some who are) are recovered.

18245 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 3, #158 of 681 🔗

I used to frequent a Covid global statistics site, which tabulated info from all countries. There was a column headed ‘Recovered’ which bore a figure from every country except the UK. Under ‘UK’ it said ‘n/a’.

18464 ▶▶▶▶ Michel, replying to annie, 1, #159 of 681 🔗

Same thing for the Netherlands!

18565 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #160 of 681 🔗

They haven’t a clue how many have recovered because they never asked us to report if we were isolating with self-diagnosed infections, which would have been very simple way back in March.

18052 Farinances, 12, #161 of 681 🔗

Last time I checked this site was about freedom not policing triviality.

18053 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 9, #162 of 681 🔗

Plus like…. I kinda like it, because that’s precisely what they are. Probably.
I mean. I can imagine them sitting in bed, gradually weeing themselves with fear whilst reading the Guardian over their morning chablis.

18072 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Farinances, 8, #163 of 681 🔗

Chablis? Surely it’s a kale, banana and chia seed smoothie.

18120 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to paulito, 2, #164 of 681 🔗

The smoothie is for breakfast and chablis is served with their dinner – all organic of course dahhling!!!

18203 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to paulito, #165 of 681 🔗

I’d give that a whirl …

18055 Edgar Friendly, 1, #166 of 681 🔗

Crybabies is a good alternative, and really annoys the crybabies

18058 Viv, 7, #167 of 681 🔗

Neither Johnson nor SAGE lived in a vacuum during the pre-lockdown days. Not only were ‘Our MSM’ full of horrifying images from Italy, the daily “Project CV-19” articles, with fear-inducing graphs, were creating the public opinion that we’re all gonna die unless government did something.
Then, before those ‘three days with no SAGE’, we had. in addition, the whole fear mongering MSM full of faux outrage about ‘herd immunity’ : Cummings (already a well-established hate figure) supported Johnson in this, they alleged, and thus he and Johnson want to kill us all off, especially the ‘vulnerable elderly’ – those elderly who died anyway because the NSH sent them all back to their care homes, medical conditions, CV-19 infections notwithstanding.
Yes – Lockdown was a political decision: a decision taken in the face of MSM outrage which got shriller by the day.

As for not closing incoming flights: Trump did this for flights from China and was branded a racist by the MSM, in the USA and here. I’m pretty certain that Johnson wanted to avoid that label, so – no flights form China were stopped …

18060 Polemon2, 27, #168 of 681 🔗

Lord Sumption. Hoorah for common sense. A further quote –
In The Sunday Times of 17 May 2020 he further remarked that “[f]ree people make mistakes and willingly take risks. If we hold politicians responsible for everything that goes wrong, they will take away our liberty so that nothing can go wrong. They will do this not for our protection against risk, but for their own protection against criticism” (Wikipedia)

18061 coalencanth12, replying to coalencanth12, 15, #169 of 681 🔗

I was doing some further pondering on my trip to Oxford yesterday. One thing I noticed was how many places were at least attempting to supply some form of take out service compared to my fairly large commuter town. Of course I realised it comes down to a question of economics – obviously the numbers in my town don’t stack up enough to make it viable. This doesn’t bode well for what my town will look like under the glorious ‘new normal’.

I saw Raab today admitted that we can’t stay under lockdown forever. Is the penny starting to drop? I also noted that during Sunak’s presser earlier on this week he was asked whether the furloughing scheme would be brought back if there were further lockdowns. He indicated that the scheme ends October come what may. This may be positive news as it seems to indicate they would be more wary about more lockdown, and if they try it the public support will dissipate much quicker….

18098 ▶▶ Julian, replying to coalencanth12, 7, #170 of 681 🔗

Glad the Raab said that and that it became a headline, though we really need to define “lockdown” properly because indefinite government-mandated social distancing is lockdown by any other name.

Also interesting that the headline included the word “defends easing of lockdown” or some such phrase. Hadn’t noticed the BBC previously requiring the government to “defend imposing or continuing lockdown”. Almost as if the BBC had made its mind up what side to support.

18136 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to coalencanth12, 11, #171 of 681 🔗

I get the feeling Sunak’s reply was due to his awareness of the amount of debt that this country has accumulated in a short span of time and that it will have to be repaid at some point, unfortunately the debt will still be there when I’m dead.

Surely the government is also aware that this enforced economic inactivity is unsustainable and if they want to stem the tide of job losses, businesses going bust, the suicides and increase in drug and alcohol abuse that will follow in the aftermath. We’ve not experienced the aftershocks yet and it won’t be pretty.

Whilst we want to see the lockdown lifted, we should also call for the aboliton of social distancing because the damage that will inflict on our economy, way of life and mental health will equally be bad if not worse.

18068 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 23, #172 of 681 🔗

So if an individual’s chances of catching the virus are now 1 in 8375 (which presumably includes those without symptoms as well) and the chances of dying once having caught the virus are now 1 in 3.4 million, that basically means . . . well, it means I would be off down the pub if it was open! Seriously, this is a great and easy to understand explanation of why this lockdown should be stopped, right now, and everything opened up immediately.

18071 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to CarrieAH, -50, #173 of 681 🔗

Sorry, the lockdown is staying weather you like it or not. Only thr government can dictate that. Not a tiny minority of anti lockdown lunatics (and yes I’m including that discredited quack Vernon Coleman)

18091 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to GrantM, 9, #174 of 681 🔗

The government will follow public opinion. Once people realise they’ve been had, and see nothing terrible happening in Europe, they will change their views and the government will follow as the motivation to not screw up the economy COMPLETELY will outweigh their obvious enjoyment of total control. I’m not sure they have the staying power to be proper totalitarians.

18102 ▶▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to Julian, -22, #175 of 681 🔗

Keep telling yourself that you deluded fool

18113 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to GrantM, 5, #176 of 681 🔗

Telling myself what? Mind your manners – calling someone a fool is just rudeness. Point out which views of mine are foolish, and why.

18187 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Julian, 6, #177 of 681 🔗

He’s a troll Julian and winding you up. Ignore him

18440 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Michel, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #178 of 681 🔗

Right! Just ignore him (or her). I am for alternative sensible visions regarding lockdown and covid19, but this loony is only trying to wind us up with non evidence based fiction stories (which he or she might actually believe in). Let’s just not respond to them anymore!

18144 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to GrantM, 5, #179 of 681 🔗

Is it “anon” that you can’t spell, or is it “annoy”?

18185 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to GrantM, 2, #180 of 681 🔗

Pity you can’t spell ‘whether’. Credibility shot.

18205 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to GrantM, 4, #181 of 681 🔗

Nicola… Are you ok?

18077 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to CarrieAH, 13, #182 of 681 🔗

Vernon Coleman is brilliant. I suggest everyone check out his site. Plus he can spell unlike some on this thread.

18081 ▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to Sceptique, -19, #183 of 681 🔗

He is a discredited quack who speaks nonsense about the pandemic being fake. That’s all I needed to know about this old fool

18087 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to GrantM, 2, #184 of 681 🔗

Hey get with it, Annoymous…even people who can’t spell know that anyone called a quack these days is telling the truth! :))))

18094 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to GrantM, 14, #185 of 681 🔗

I don’t know much about Vernon Coleman, but I don’t think the virus is “fake” and I don’t think many others do. A lot of us just think that the reaction to something that looks like it is AT MOST twice as deadly as flu – to shut down normal life indefinitely – is misguided, immoral and doomed to failure.

The question you need to address is whether saving lives at all costs can be justified. Everything else is just peripheral.

18095 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to GrantM, 4, #186 of 681 🔗

He’s also in the past been a tad litigious. Hope you’ve got an anoymousised IP address.

18083 ▶▶ A13, replying to CarrieAH, 10, #187 of 681 🔗

Exactly, even the government admits that the chances of catching the virus are low.
How on earth are we still on alert level 4, moving towards level 3?

18097 ▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to A13, -20, #188 of 681 🔗

Cause they listen to experts and not brain dead lunatics that inhabit this site

18115 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to GrantM, 9, #189 of 681 🔗

YOU inhabit this site. So right back atcha.

18129 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to BecJT, 10, #190 of 681 🔗

Where did this very rude and unpleasant person cone from? And why is it depositing its faecal comments here? There are trillions of sites where zombies can wallow in talk of Zombiegeddon to their hearts’ content.

18133 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to annie, 4, #191 of 681 🔗

Although I disagree strongly with anoymous’ assertions, I haven’t seen anything that I would ban or silence him or her for saying.

If the person is looking for attention they are certainly getting it.

18569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #192 of 681 🔗

It’s a troll.
I like the fact that this site values freedom, so won’t block trolls. However, members could create the same effect by stopping feeding it with downticks and wasting time on repostes.

18139 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to GrantM, 5, #193 of 681 🔗

Your lot listen to Imperial College while we listen to Professor Michael Levitt and Dr. John Ioannidis, both of Stanford University.And who has been more accurate so far? Not Imperial, that’s for sure.

18206 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to GrantM, 5, #194 of 681 🔗

Read the SAGE minutes.

Apparently they don’t listen to experts. At all.

18545 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to A13, 3, #195 of 681 🔗

Absolutely. They invented this Nando’s scale, then said that by their own criteria we were at 3 but…they’re going to pretend we’re still at 4 just in case. R has been at 1 or below for weeks now hasn’t it?

18614 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 2, #196 of 681 🔗

Literally since mearly March – in the ‘community’ anyway.
Honestly, if R was a real thing (it isn’t), I’d say the only place it has EVER been above one is….. in hospitals and care homes!
I’ve flipped now from thinking everyone has had covid to thinking everyone has been exposed but hardly anyone has actually got covid. Unless they were a vulnerable person in one of these vulnerable environments.

18086 ▶▶ A13, replying to GrantM, 11, #198 of 681 🔗

Troll alert.

Can Toby please incorporate ‘ignore’ function so i don’t have to read this fuckwits posts?

18096 ▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to A13, -25, #199 of 681 🔗

I’m not a troll, unlike everyone here I’m looking at the realistic picture. No more sporting events with crowds. No more concerts, conventions. No more social gatherings. It’s over. Why you cant accept that I will never know. Oh wait its because you are selfish idiots who want grandma to die. Okay then

18112 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to GrantM, 7, #200 of 681 🔗

Provide some evidence/arguments for your statements. And mind your manners.

18114 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to GrantM, 2, #201 of 681 🔗

It’s over? LOL.

18328 ▶▶▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to BecJT, 2, #202 of 681 🔗

The ‘old normal’ is not over, but in terms of number of cases the epidemic is and has been for a couple of weeks – at least according to Oxford University:


Sadly, the ‘lockdown’ continues. It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that what we are seeing now is a massive and costly face-saving exercise.

18188 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to GrantM, 2, #203 of 681 🔗

I was at a social gathering today moron…and not a grandmother in sight

18193 ▶▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to GrantM, 6, #204 of 681 🔗

77 Brigade detected .

18196 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to GrantM, 3, #205 of 681 🔗

Stop shrieking you loon. Now tell us… What do you want out of all of this? Doesn’t sound like you enjoy your life very much and are trying to bring everyone down to your misery level..

Or you’re just a bog standard troll.

Which is it?

18159 ▶▶ Carausius, replying to GrantM, 2, #206 of 681 🔗

The really alarming thing about this story is that the recruits will be drawn from a similar group of people as the Blackshirts in fascist Italy, and Ernst Roehm’s Brownshirt SA in 1920s Germany. Although they supposedly won’t have the power to enforce the dispersal of gatherings there’s not a great distance to leap before they start taking that power into their own hands, especially if an irate crowd react badly to being told what to do by them.

18191 ▶▶ Bella, replying to GrantM, 2, #207 of 681 🔗

Well that’s one for every 6,000 people. Must say I like those odds. Fancy being the one copper at a lower league football match attended by 6,000

18202 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to GrantM, 1, #208 of 681 🔗

They would never get away with this in Germany for obvious reasons.
I’d’ve thought Italy would havemhad more sense – also for obvious reasons. 🙁

18244 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, 8, #209 of 681 🔗

Italians normal,ply have a good solid habit of ignoring instructions. I used to be a tour guide. You could tell arriving German groups by the way they formed up and waited for orders; French groups by the loud arguments; and Italian groups by the way they got off the bus and scattered to the four winds. It would take 6000 goons just to make the population stand still.
And I don’t think there will be many volunteers for the job in Sicily.
PS. You could tell British groups from the fact that they never stirred without their raingear.

18306 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to annie, 3, #210 of 681 🔗

I agree, I lived in Italy for a while. Lovely people and gorgeous country but ‘couldn’t organise a pissup in a brewery’. Yet we based our entire CV response on theirs.

18393 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to annie, #211 of 681 🔗

Non story. It says ‘Italy wants….’ Which bit of Italy wants? The boot bit? I want a million quid, doesn’t mean I’m going to get it. And they’re not going to be paid so that augurs well. So not a lot different from an over-zealous supermarket worker telling us to observe one way instructions here.

18417 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #212 of 681 🔗

Well said Annie. Where I work it was usually Italians I had to tell off to keep their voice down, no eating, please sit on the designated seats and not on the floor etc.

And what’s bad is that their teachers just left them to have a look and they were usually in and out in 10 minutes – a total waste of money!

18079 Tony Rattray, replying to Tony Rattray, 14, #213 of 681 🔗



Yes, this for me (based upon the actual minutes of the sage group) is the most telling analysis of the last 10 weeks I have seen in the uk. As I told all my friends and family when the full lockdown was announced, why did we not ‘simply’ act sooner targeting the states resources at protecting the most vulnerable, etc. As stated in the article, a scientific and common sense approach. But no, due to his poor leadership skills, we instead get a later political decision to lockdown the whole country – economic suicide.

Why is the mainstream media not picking up on this timeline in their stories? Are they also now just a bunch of clowns? This type of story should in time finish his career! Even in scotland for example, it can be used to savage the 50% care home deaths…

18088 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tony Rattray, 2, #214 of 681 🔗

One can only hope, but don’t hold your breath. They’ve been dreadful. Unforgivably so.

18118 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, #215 of 681 🔗

But who will replace them?

18089 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Tony Rattray, 2, #216 of 681 🔗

The Eddie Mair interview years ago should have ended his career, it would have anyone else’s, but he seems a bit untouchable in that regard, like Trump. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAxA-9D4X3o

18174 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Tony Rattray, 2, #217 of 681 🔗

having read this, was there no one close enough to Boris to say as would Sgt Wilson to Captain Mainwaring “are sure that’s wise?”

18581 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to crimsonpirate, #218 of 681 🔗

He’d thrown them out of the cabinet.

18265 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Tony Rattray, 9, #219 of 681 🔗

David Starkey suggests the lockdown came as a result of:

  1. The pictures coming out of Italy and the fear that it could be us next.
  2. The hospital in London (Northpark?) almost being overwhelmed.
  3. Macron threatening to close the border unless we locked down like France.

Plus of course, the pressure of public opinion whipped up by the media.

18080 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 5, #220 of 681 🔗

First time commenter here, though Toby did quote (and slightly misquote!) in the daily update my lengthy email to him a few days ago.
Can someone who is knowledgeable about statistics please try to make sense of the data on the Zoe Covid site (which seems to get little mention here)? It says that there were 2.13 million symptomatic cases in the UK on 1 April, and that symptomatic cases are now down to 0.18 million, as of 30 May. More precisely, it states that 182066 people are predicted to have symptomatic Covid in the UK today. Bear in mind that these figures relate only to people aged 20 to 69. Here’s my problem: if 2.13 million people had symptomatic Covid on 1 April, and, as we are regularly told, about 80% of infected people are asymptomatic, then it seems that about 10 million people were infected on 1 April. As this just applies to those aged 20 to 69, and I’m guessing that that is about 40 million people, excluding children and those over 70, in our population of 67 million, then 25% of the population were infected on 1 April. I guess we also have to chuck into the mix those who have been exposed to the virus but shrugged it off by their innate immunity or, as we have heard, possibly by their defences from previous types of coronavirus, as described by Professor Gupta. Then the next complication: the symptoms seem to last two or three weeks, so there will have been a steady turnover of infected people coming into Zoe Covid’s analysis since late March until now, as sick ones get better and newly infected people get included, as the numbers drop through the hundreds of thousands down to the present. I can’t work out how many infected people will be included in this process. All in all, it seems like way more than 25% of the population (20 to 69) will have been infected according to these figures. If all of this is correct, then very few of us should be left to become infected! Can someone please make sense of this?
Also, Zoe Covid says, on the website today, that there are 11,300 new daily cases across the UK based on data from 10 to 23 May. And yet, as today’s edition of Lockdownsceptics says, the ONS data say that 8000 new people are becoming infected every week. Is it simply that Zoe Covid’s methodology is dodgy, or are there some sound explanations for these seeming discrepancies? The credentials of the site seem good. I can’t help wondering whether self-reporting via an app is solid science, but they now back up self-reporting with sending out swabs. Anyone out there who can explore this?

18600 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Aremen, 1, #221 of 681 🔗

We were told to phone 111 only for advice if we had symptoms but many people won’t have bothered. They weren’t even recording the numbers that did phone. Add to that, the increasing number of people who now think they probably had it back in January (I know 2) and there’s no way they can state the numer of people who’ve been infected, symptomatic or otherwise.

18082 Martin Spencer, replying to Martin Spencer, 2, #222 of 681 🔗

“informing people in immigrant communities – which were hit disproportionately hard by the epidemic – of hygiene and social distancing rules.

So the Norwegian government is saying that non-whites are dirtier than whites?

18305 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Martin Spencer, 1, #223 of 681 🔗

It’s quite typical in immigrant communities that the children translate information for the parents sometimes, so schools are often useful ways of conveying information to communities that don’t have the national language as their first language.

18603 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Martin Spencer, #224 of 681 🔗

I thought that was a, let’s say, “unfortunate” way of putting it.

18090 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 27, #225 of 681 🔗

I’m a left winger and I do blame lockdown on left wingers (in a complex way, which we’ve discussed AT LENGTH, and with nuance, for many many weeks now), so how about you don’t just do a hit and run with your judgemental posts. I prefer bed wetters to hysterics due to the sexist connotations of the latter. You’ll notice if you’d read what we discuss, that the conclusion most of us have reached is that it is not the old school left, you know actual working class people, but middle class lefties, in fact this whole thing is rather middle class, because it doesn’t hurt them, they get to feel virtuous, morally superior and sunbathe in the back garden. Everyone’s a winner, except the actual poor.

18181 ▶▶ Bella, replying to BecJT, 7, #226 of 681 🔗

As a woman of the left (but rather disillusioned) I agree with every word in your post.

18262 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Bella, 5, #227 of 681 🔗

It’s not to late, you can work out that collectivism is the very antithesis of humanity and become the person you should have been before you were conned into thinking left wing people actually care about others.

18182 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to BecJT, 4, #228 of 681 🔗

As someone also with left leaning sympathies but out of step with their thinking on lockdown I agree with everything you’ve said

18248 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 9, #229 of 681 🔗

I used to be somewhat to the right of Genghis Khan, but I think that such paltry distinctions are now far less important than the distinction between ‘sceptical’ and ‘zombiegullible’.
We can all retreat into our left-right corners once the battle is over. Meanwhile, welcome, leftie brothers and sisters.

18195 ▶▶ RS @ home, replying to BecJT, 5, #230 of 681 🔗

There was and is very broad public support for lockdown – not just from the left, but certainly also from the right. And the support was and is so shockingly high, that it cannot be just middle class, but also has to include blue collar workers. And that support is what swayed this Government in the first place.
So don’t blame this on one group, because nearly everyone is to blame (probably including your friends).

18308 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to RS @ home, 1, #231 of 681 🔗

I DON’T. Which is what I’ve just said, we’ve spent weeks and weeks musing all this, I’m more annoyed at a Johnny come Lately flying by here to condemn, rather than getting involved in thrashing this out. My position is nuanced, and it didn’t just start with lockdown, about which I’ve written thousands upon thousands of words on this site (quite amiably, with civility, and much back and forth, with people who would describe themselves as ‘right wing’).

I know there was broad public support for lockdown, which we have discussed ad naseum here. I’m irritated that some twit then drops by and makes a reductive sneering statement that misrepresents what I and many others think.

18335 ▶▶▶▶ RS @ home, replying to BecJT, 1, #232 of 681 🔗

Your tone of response has been noted. It is not exactly an invitation to respond, but I’m not going to be silenced by aggression.

You, and some others on this site including Toby, are trying to bring a left-right debate into this, and I think you’re wrong to do that. Clearly, left or right is no indicator for lockdown support. So let’s not talk about it. Because if we do, lockdown zealots will find it easier to pigeon hole and dismiss lockdown critics by association with things they already disagree with. Lockdown critics are stronger if we focus on the arguments against lockdown, and step well away from other debates.

I have said this before, directly to Toby.

18460 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to RS @ home, 1, #233 of 681 🔗

No, I’m not, which if you’d actually gone and read what I’d said, over and over again, at great length, you’d know.

18371 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to BecJT, -1, #234 of 681 🔗

Hysterics, sexist connotations?

Calm down dear…

18462 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Edgar Friendly, 2, #235 of 681 🔗

Oh do fuck off.

18483 ▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to BecJT, #236 of 681 🔗

Unfortunately i can’t, as that is now illegal.

18099 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 2, #237 of 681 🔗

I posted a comment a few minutes ago as a first timer, but it has not appeared. Any advice re what I’m doing wrong?

18156 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Aremen, #238 of 681 🔗

Not sure… but welcome anyway!

18276 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Aremen, #239 of 681 🔗

My first comment took a while to appear as well but appear it did. Welcome to planet sanity.

18402 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Aremen, #240 of 681 🔗

I think the first comment has to be manually approved.

18104 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #241 of 681 🔗


“The new coronavirus is losing its potency and has become much less lethal, a senior Italian doctor said on Sunday.”
Earlier it has been speculation that Covid-19 would lose some genetic elements which happened with SARS virus.
But this report today in Italian media picked up by Reuters

18142 ▶▶ PD, replying to swedenborg, 3, #242 of 681 🔗

Brilliant news!
Perfect justification to end lockdown and send kids back to school tomorrow.

18278 ▶▶ paulito, replying to swedenborg, 1, #243 of 681 🔗

Headline in El Mundo “Lack of new patients puts (vaccine) studies in danger”. Second wave my arse.

18105 John P, replying to John P, 10, #244 of 681 🔗

The world is suffering from information overload. There are simply too many numbers being bandied about and no real way to properly assess their veracity.

It is my contention that the figures of 38k dead in the UK are a gross overstatement of the actual dead due to covid19. I expect that many here share my view that these are died “with” and not “of” sars-cov-2 infection and that the high excess is in the main due to the lockdown itself.

Iran is a country that I have not seen featured much. I mean no disrespect to the regime when I ask – how have they done it?

A country of some 83 million inhabitants (UK 66 million). According to worldometer tonight (31st May) it has recorded 151k infections compared with 275k UK and only 7797 deaths.

Impressive stuff … ?

How can any of us rely on these numbers that we are being relentlessly fed?

18199 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to John P, 6, #245 of 681 🔗

TBH I trust Iran’s numbers as much as I trust China’s.

But your point still stands. There are plenty of countries who’ve managed remarkable figures despite little or no lockdown, let alone ones who’ve had lockdown and done well also. We can’t rely on the numbers. At all. They are being fiddled. Massaged up by a host of insidious methods that only medical professionals really are party to, and then manipulated skilfully by ‘journalists’ into the bargain.

This is what’s making me despair actually. I know not to trust journalists. But doctors and coroners? Where are they all? WHY ARE NONE OF THEM SAYING ANYTHING???

18107 Julian, replying to Julian, 4, #247 of 681 🔗

This subject brings out strong feelings in people, and in me. Personally I think those of us who would like to persuade our fellow citizens to our point of view should try to stick to facts and reason, and avoid loaded phrases like bed-wetters, public schoolboys, and if at all possible try not to make this a left-right thing.

Full disclosure – I am not a public schoolboy, vaguely right of centre, hopefully not a bedwetter.

But I get the anger, and the frustration.

18210 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 9, #248 of 681 🔗

I am a comprehensive schooled hero of the proletariat who went to Cambridge uni and is consequently friends with lots of public schoolboys. I generally find they treat me with way more respect than Guardian-reading protectors of the poor and needy. So…. yeah. Judgement is judgement no matter who you’re judging based on their background.

18108 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 20, #249 of 681 🔗

I see the High-Heeled Dictator has tweeted a “warning ” that she may reimpose lockdown if the population don’t follow her “rules”. Well, good luck with that – she’ll better order up some water cannons and arm the cops because the vast majority of people will not obey her. And I really doubt if the Chief Constable will either.

18111 ▶▶ John P, replying to Hammer Onats, #250 of 681 🔗

Who is that?

18132 ▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to John P, 7, #251 of 681 🔗

The one and only Nicola Sturgeon – an even bigger liar than Boris.

18123 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Hammer Onats, 3, #252 of 681 🔗

Is this She Who Must Be Obeyed oop North??

If that’s the case thank God I’m out of that place.

18125 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #253 of 681 🔗

lol that would be my guess too, but I was just asking for confirmation.

18141 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John P, 2, #254 of 681 🔗

Got it right, lol!!!

18167 ▶▶ Bob, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #255 of 681 🔗

The FM’s Twitter feed comments are certainly entertaining. Very few questioning the persistence of the Lockdown, very many complaining that the rules are being broken.

18176 ▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Bob, 8, #256 of 681 🔗

That’s fairly typical of anything Sturgeon posts, either on Twitter or Facebook. Most of the comments supporting her are from imbeciles with an IQ lower than the coronavirus. Some classics – send in the army (not realising that Sturgeon has no authority over the British army), close the border (again, not within the SG powers), and the good old Nationalist standby “it was the English”. Thankfully, there are a majority of Scots who utterly despise Sturgeon and will not be following her “rules”.

18130 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 27, #257 of 681 🔗

Lockdown rules unenforceable and public will ‘do what they want,’ warn police after weekend of breaches (Daily Telegraph) ‘Public will do what they want.’ That’s the cheeriest sentence I’ve read in a good long time.

18135 ▶▶ A13, replying to Mike Smith, 9, #258 of 681 🔗

But remember, no singing or shouting allowed when meeting friends!
“Avoid singing or shouting when meeting with family or friends, scientists warn”This is what our scientists are paid for…

18158 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to A13, 5, #259 of 681 🔗

It’s all over but the shouting. Oh, wait…

18242 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DJ Dod, 5, #260 of 681 🔗

… until the fat lady sings?
I’m thinnish, but I sing a lot, and I’m willing to get fat(tish) in a good cause.

18268 ▶▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to annie, #261 of 681 🔗

😂 😂 😂 😂

18292 ▶▶▶ A13, replying to A13, 2, #262 of 681 🔗

Silly me. That’s of course just an excuse for keeping churches closed.

18146 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Mike Smith, 18, #263 of 681 🔗

I can’t help but think this is all part of a plan by this cowardly government. They must know by now the game is up but are desperate to avoid admitting they got it wrong. Let the public break the lockdown themselves then blame it on them. It must be obvious to the government and cops, based on the Black Lives Matter protest, that the cops will not be able to control any large scale disobedience.

18160 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mike Smith, 4, #264 of 681 🔗


18168 ▶▶ drrobin, replying to Mike Smith, 17, #265 of 681 🔗

Fairly cheery Mike, but how I wish they could. From a glass-half empty perspective… if only. They might do ‘what they want’ when it comes to visiting auntie, or gathering in a public place in large numbers. Not a lot useful though. Going to work and paying tax is still banned for many. That’d be constructive to start digging us all out. How about taking their children to be educated – one day they might come up with solutions to the dire state the economy is in? How about being able to form relationships? Funerals maybe? The pub? Oh, a nice meal out. A holiday without a further threat of 2 weeks isolation? A chance to get the piano tuner in without a concern the pillock will pass on your number if they get a cough later on in the week? Perhaps a chance to regain mental serenity with trip to a gallery or the theatre, or – oh bugger it, just getting pissed at long-awaited-rescheduled gig.
Nah. Turns out…. just visiting auntie and meeting many people in the park still. It’s just that the rest are now doing what many of us sceptics have done right the way through this.

18157 Ricky R, replying to Ricky R, 13, #266 of 681 🔗

“People say that like Lockdown is anything like genuine oppression. Not only is the lockdown not oppression but it’s actually in our best interest”

A comment I read on a university social media page after someone was critical of the lockdown and suggested people should be free to assess their own risk (given that at the age of most university students your chances of dying from Covid is minimal)

I never expected that in 2020 people would so quickly celebrate oppression.

18231 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Ricky R, 10, #267 of 681 🔗

Because apparently a ‘microaggression’ (*vomit*) is more opporesive than being forcibly detained in one building for three months.

18161 Tim, replying to Tim, 1, #268 of 681 🔗

Just a thought on Vietnam. They have successfully held the virus at bay by preventing it from entering the country. They are going to have to keep it up, though. They probably have the world’s worst herd immunity against this virus.

18164 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Tim, 2, #269 of 681 🔗

Maybe. But they don’t have many elderly people or many who are obese or suffering with metabolic syndrome.

18163 Sue D, replying to Sue D, 2, #270 of 681 🔗

I love Annie’s Little List – and her previous dream. Very clever.
Coincidentally, whenever I hear epidemiologist I hear it to the sound of G&S’s Major General. Not clever enough to do anything with it though for rhyming there’s molecular biologist and no doubt other ologists but beyond me!

18241 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sue D, 5, #271 of 681 🔗

I will turn my mighty mind to that excellent song. Can’t promise results, though – the Muse makes her own rules. She’s a pretty angry lady just now, whatever.

18361 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to annie, #272 of 681 🔗

Annie, I have been bold by taking a snapshot of ‘little list’ for my mother to enjoy, as she is a big fan of G&S. as well as being a skeptic in SA.

18169 Anon, replying to Anon, #273 of 681 🔗

The Vietnam case is enlightening and our faith in China’s ‘robust’ exit-checking is astounding. I seem to remember accusations of xenophobia being thrown around when stopping flights was raised, although that feels like an eternity ago and I can’t quickly find a good example.

It would be interesting to map coronavirus cases to total inbound flights, particularly from China. The airports seemed to really starting closing down at the end of March.

18173 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Anon, 10, #274 of 681 🔗

I don’t know the exact figures and am open to correction but I estimate there are upwards of 100,000 mainland Chinese students in the UK .They tend to be the wealthy offspring of the elite and in the nearby city which has a large number of Chinese students they can be found in M and S food dept rather than Lidl.They pay big money to get a UK university degree.

Thye tend to travel frequently back to China . It would be a very brave PM in Jan/Feb who would have stopped flights from China. I suspect many of these would have brought the coronavirus from China and the vast majority being young would have been asymptomatic.

18183 ▶▶▶ Anon, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #275 of 681 🔗

That sounds about right. Near where I live in London there is an area where almost all the expensive new high-rise towers appear to be occupied by 20-something Chinese (who are clearly extremely wealthy given that most of their t-shirts cost more than my entire wardrobe!).

18611 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Anon, 1, #276 of 681 🔗

Why are we overlooking the skiiers returning from Europe? And the Brits happily flying off to the Canaries for two weeks in the middle of March.

18175 ▶▶ EmbraFlaneur, replying to Anon, 1, #277 of 681 🔗

There are some additional comments on Vietnam’s handling of the virus, including from somebody claiming to be an “expat in Vietnam”, to be found here:


18178 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #278 of 681 🔗

You would think that France, the land of rational and empirical thinking of Descartes, would have exact figures about Covid-19 in the country. But looking at any website about their figures about Covid-19 you would think it was a third world country. One day 17000 cases, the day before 2000 cases, the day after 8000 cases. And looking at the death statistics also shambles. Obviously reporting from care homes deaths was always completely different from hospital statistics due to bureaucratic reasons.  Interesting how they spin R figures from that data but I suppose Macron in his Jupiterian qualities doesn’t need much advice.

18235 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to swedenborg, 3, #279 of 681 🔗

If you open the dictionary to “P” and find “Political Puppet”, there’s a photo of Macron.

18336 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to swedenborg, 2, #280 of 681 🔗

Descartes had to move to Holland to do his thinking

18400 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Edgar Friendly, 2, #281 of 681 🔗

And he ended up in … yes … Sweden.

18180 mantrid, replying to mantrid, 18, #282 of 681 🔗

“I also think that there is something seriously amiss with a culture that would choose to idolize a sulky child like Greta Thunberg rather than a listen to a more traditional “wise old man” like Jonathan Sumption”

This proves how infantilized our society has become. In a world where teenagers are pushed as authorities everyone ends up paternalized and treated like teenager.

18236 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to mantrid, 5, #283 of 681 🔗

Greta represents “society”: a child who’s told what to think, how to behave and what to get angry about.

18250 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to mantrid, 4, #284 of 681 🔗

We’re certainly supposed to idolise her, but how many people really do is another matter. She has been given a platform, that’s all.

Given the difficulty globalists have in discussing anything rationally, and instead just emitting streams of abuse and silliness, there are probably a lot of people who do think she is some sort of sage. But I’m sure there are plenty of others who don’t think about her at all.

18613 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mike Smith, #285 of 681 🔗

She’s sponsored by our friend Bill.

18184 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 6, #286 of 681 🔗

Just received a response from my MP, regarding my frustration with the 2 metre distancing rule, and the impact this will have on the retail, hospitality, leisure and tourism sectors. I also raised my concern re the ridiculous 14 day quarantine rule. It seems she too has been brainwashed. What is this obsession with everything being “safe”? I despair.

Here is her reply in full:

Thanks for your latest email.

It’s imperative that any shops and other businesses opening, do so safely. It may not be fun to shop in this way, but it is the safest way to do so. You were very keen that we start to lift lockdown, so I have no doubt you are pleased that the government is taking steps to do so. However, this must be done slowly and safely. Indeed the Association of Directors of Public Health have put out a stark warning this evening about easing lockdown tomorrow: https://www.adph.org.uk/2020/05/adph-presidential-blog-a-time-for-steady-leadership-careful-preparation-and-measured-steps/

With regards to quarantining, frankly, it’s a nonsense that such a measure is being introduced at such a late stage. This should have happened consistently very early on.

As I have said previously, as a liberal, I feel very uncomfortable with these measures, but public health must take priority. The Coronavirus Act which passed very quickly through parliament in March, enables the government to take many of these measures. The very limited scrutiny we were afforded on that bill is the reason why I and my party pressed for three-monthly reviews with a vote of parliament (the government only intended a debate after a year). In the end, we secured six-monthly reviews with a vote.

I appreciate your frustration, but public health and safety is my primary concern.


18197 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to RDawg, 10, #287 of 681 🔗

Might wanna consider the consequences of 20% unemployment on public health and safety, Munira.

18204 ▶▶▶ Old fred, replying to Farinances, 10, #288 of 681 🔗

And the DM headline just now about 2.5 million cancer patients caught in coronavirus backlog

18615 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 2, #289 of 681 🔗

Yes. I noticed she focused on the lack of shopping fun – how patronising! – but overlooked the dying small independent retail businesses and cafes.

18264 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RDawg, 8, #290 of 681 🔗

Well done for keeping up the good fight RDawg but its frustrating.

It seems like she’s burying her head in the sand over the unemployment and businesses closing figures which are projected to go up as we carry on with this nightmare that is “social distancing”

Quick question: how will she reply when the figures are released with regards to suicide and drug and alcohol abuse which are down to all this?

18313 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to RDawg, 3, #291 of 681 🔗

At least you got an answer even if it is nonsensical.

Mine hasn’t even acknowledged I exist.

18316 ▶▶ IanE, replying to RDawg, 2, #292 of 681 🔗

Shame she’s an idiot (but then I think she is a lib dem), but she gets some marks for replying. My MP (so-called Conservative) NEVER bothers to reply!

18317 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to RDawg, 4, #293 of 681 🔗

What weasel words “I appreciate your frustration …” No, she bloody doesn’t.

18343 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to kh1485, 3, #294 of 681 🔗

Read it as “I appreciate my pay-check”

18351 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Edgar Friendly, 3, #295 of 681 🔗

And “Go away, pleb”

18342 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to RDawg, 4, #296 of 681 🔗

I thought ‘protecting’ the NHS was the priority?

Every measure introduced so far is the direct opposite of good for the ‘public health’.

18616 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #297 of 681 🔗

Ah but they’ve protected the NHS – though its reputation will soon be in tatters. Unfortunately that will pave the way for a quick carve-up among friends.

18667 ▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Cheezilla, #298 of 681 🔗

Is this a new form of protectionism?

18194 ianp, 3, #299 of 681 🔗

Ok… I prefer to call them the ‘mentally weak’. And no, nobody is blaming lockdown on the lefties, but surely you must have noticed all left wing media and political parties responses to lifting lockdown is to demand a harder, longer lockdown..? You haven’t noticed those bastions of reasonable thought, the trade unions point blank refusing to go back to work? Thereby enabling the end of the lockdown?

So, yeah, I think we can blame left wing bias for the pointless extension of the house arrest

There only answer these days seems to be to demand more lockdown

18198 Sally, replying to Sally, 7, #300 of 681 🔗

It is quite incorrect to suggest that the UK government ever implemented a policy of cocooning the elderly and vulnerable. The PM’s statement of 16 March does make mention of vulnerable groups, but it explicitly asks everyone to cease all unnecessary social contact, work from home if possible, and to avoid pubs, restaurants, etc. It contains in fact major elements of a general lockdown. It is very far from a statement that implements shielding measures for specific vulnerable groups.

18216 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sally, 2, #301 of 681 🔗

There was some emphasis on the ‘vulnerable’ population at the very beginning but it very quickly switched to everyone.

18222 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Farinances, 2, #302 of 681 🔗

Did I blink and miss it? Seriously, there was no real attempt at a cocooning policy. I think they were scared of the grey voting backlash.

18217 ▶▶ A13, replying to Sally, 4, #303 of 681 🔗

I know two ‘vulnerable’ people who were contacted by their GP’s and told to shield for a minimum period of 12 weeks – that was couple of weeks before the lockdown started.

18617 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sally, 1, #304 of 681 🔗

They were told to stay in their homes for 12 weeks.

18200 Joseph Collins, 1, #305 of 681 🔗

Its seem the Govt also ignored this CV19 status from the 19th March.


18207 Morris_Day, replying to Morris_Day, 11, #306 of 681 🔗

My first trip into central London since lockdown today. On my way in – only a 20 minute train – didn’t see a single mask. London very similar to St Albans in mask wearing percentage. I’d say around 5%. Had quite a few beers in a park and everyone was having a good time. Got on a bus, and beside the ’20 capacity’ sign and the fact that they are letting you ride for free because you get on in the middle, rather than by the driver, it was pretty quiet and normal. Later after a trip to a friends house, I got the underground and was one of two in the carriage. The scaremongering has obviously worked by the number of people out in the street, but I was happy to see Londoners seemed pretty normal.

18223 ▶▶ sunchap, replying to Morris_Day, 22, #307 of 681 🔗

As a physics grad I am very sad that Boris did not stick to the science and follow the initial advice of his scientific advisers. The scientific consensus, even from WHO in 2019, was that these types of pandemics should be dealt with by quarantining the sick and not locking down the healthy.

If the UK had stuck to it’s guns, many in the old fashioned Commonwealth, such as us in New Zealand may have followed suit. The UK as one of the birthplaces of liberty is still hugely influential. Instead, we locked down and destroyed our economy and freedom.

18230 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to sunchap, 7, #308 of 681 🔗

That’s very true. Gieseke (Swedish health & WHO consultant guy) said they were ‘very pleased’ when they saw we were following their model as well. Whoops.
We are influential in that way, despite what the ‘left’ would have us think. I think we influenced a lot of governors in the US, sadly.

18285 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Morris_Day, 1, #309 of 681 🔗

You must have a bionic bladder as all the public toilets I know of are closed -elf and safety. Possibly catching Covid from a toilet seat trumps peeing (or worse) in a bush/back alley

18324 ▶▶▶ Morris_Day, replying to arfurmo, #310 of 681 🔗

Ha, it was a concern.. two separate places said their toilets were shut, we went to my office in the end.

18621 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, #311 of 681 🔗

Didn’t your parents teach you never to sit on a public toilet seat?!

18215 KL_Petersen, 3, #312 of 681 🔗

A policeman has finally admitted that there job is to enforce laws, not ministerial directives, see the bottom of the article for Assistant Chief Constable Callaghan’s comments. Where was this realisation weeks ago when police were happily abusing civil liberties and handing out fines and arrests for supplying elderly relatives, walking alone in the peak district or buying “non-essential” shopping.


18218 swedenborg, 16, #313 of 681 🔗


Ireland: “Among 1,001 child contacts of these six cases there were no confirmed cases of COVID-19. In the school setting, among 924 child contacts and 101 adult contacts identified, there were no confirmed cases of COVID-19.”
And schools stay closed?!

18220 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 21, #314 of 681 🔗

Guys, I’m sorry for my language in my last couple of replies, I’m finding it hard this weekend, the closer we get, the longer it seems…. does that make sense?

I’m had a couple of years of years worth of heath issues, mine and my wife’s, proper issues, mortality and morbidity issues.

At the the moment, I’ve got a hair trigger, seeing these anonymous bullies using this site really tips me over the edge.


18229 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #315 of 681 🔗

Swear away. I find it endearing.

18239 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #316 of 681 🔗

No problem. I think we are all on the edge at times. I know I am.

18240 ▶▶ annie, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #317 of 681 🔗

In 1984, Winston gets this urge to swear and shout i obscenities. Goes with the tyranny territory, I think.
I,m wirse.

18253 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #318 of 681 🔗

Thank you

18293 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #319 of 681 🔗

Don’t worry about it. It’s not like you’ve – whoops – destroyed half your country. In any case, most of us here feel the same. Except for noonypoop, or whatever his name is.

18312 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Winston Smith, 8, #320 of 681 🔗

Not a problem, keep it up to stay sane.

Idiots like anonymous infesting the interweb comments sections now means we must be winning the war as they wouldn’t be trying so hard to discredit us otherwise. They are becoming ridiculously easy to spot. If this is the best they can employ common purpose is run by idiots or the deluded.

I almost let rip at a “nurse” out shopping yesterday but had to keep quiet or I wouldn’t have stopped.

I was telling a couple of the young shop staff how safe they were and how low their actual risk was and they were becoming more at ease and asking why was this not on TV or the social media pages when in she jumped as I said “and the Prime minister of Norway has just apologised to the country for panicking and the lockdown was not necessary” when she said “if it saved just one life it was worth it”.

My very short answer was very rude but did include the word facts in it and the phrase “enjoy the weekly adulation?”. She stormed off.

All in all another successful shopping trip.

Our local B+M, no queueing outside, no one way system, not staff PPE, only those stupid useless plastic sneeze guards at the tills, no social distancing (except this idiot nurse), almost civillised.

18424 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #321 of 681 🔗

If I hear or read another one saying “if it saved just one life it was worth it” I might end up on a rampage or commit hara-kiri.

When this is over we should spend lots of time and effort expunging that thinking from people. IMO that has been the most damaging abomination in our society for the last 20-30 years.

18624 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #322 of 681 🔗

Enought people have died Bart, so no hara-kiri if you don’t mind. Rampaging, however, is a much better idea – best to gather a crowd first though.

18452 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #323 of 681 🔗

Our Tesco’s has the sneezeboards, but when you go to pay and load your purchase, you are ordered to walk right round the board and stand face to face with the checkout person, who is thus in a perfect target position for sneezes.
I pointed this out to my checker outer, who looked totally nonplussed.
I refrained from sneezing.

18493 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to annie, 3, #324 of 681 🔗

Good way to have fun at those useless screens (our Tesco and others have the same) that you have to go round to reach your shopping is to ask the operator “have you read and agreed to tear ask assessment for these screens?”, worth a chuckle when they say “what risk assessment?”. tell them by law a change in working environment must be risk assessed an they, a step people doing them work, must have input and agree and sign it before starting the work.

Amuses me anyway.

18221 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, #325 of 681 🔗


Yes it is Guardian but rather interesting interview with one of the independent SAGE which has a worse reputation than SAGE. But there are some interesting things in this interview with Prof Friston
“Challenges views of both government and its critics. Covid-19 expert Karl Friston: ‘Germany may have more immunological “dark matter””

18257 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, #326 of 681 🔗

He describes how I think modelling should work.

18226 mark baker, replying to mark baker, 13, #327 of 681 🔗

Can I ask an obvious question: if SAGE wasn’t in favour of the lockdown back in March why are so many of them against its easing now?

18228 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to mark baker, 5, #328 of 681 🔗



I mean I don’t think they were ‘against’ lockdown per se. They just weren’t for it. They never even mentioned it. It wasn’t even entertained in those minutes. Only Sweden style measures were presented.

Why are they now all towing the line with a gvt. who ignored their recommendations?

18263 ▶▶▶ Old fred, replying to Farinances, 4, #329 of 681 🔗

What about pressure from Macron, who threatened to shut the Channel? Was this another factor, maybe?

18274 ▶▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to Old fred, 2, #330 of 681 🔗

Probably the main one.

18303 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Old fred, #331 of 681 🔗

Shut the channel? What do you mean, build a dam across it?

18234 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to mark baker, 1, #332 of 681 🔗

To throw the politicians under the bus?

18238 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mark H, 5, #333 of 681 🔗

We’re going to need a lot of buses.

18310 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #334 of 681 🔗

Fortunately they are reusable!

18626 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mark baker, #335 of 681 🔗

Now there’s the question!

18233 BobT, replying to BobT, 16, #336 of 681 🔗

The US riots are just the start and they are ‘coming to a cinema near you’ soon.

The murder of George Floyd is just the spark that lit the blue touch paper. The racial divide in the US runs very deep (much deeper than Europe) but there is more to these riots than meets the eye.
40 million US citizens have lost their jobs due to the lockdown and that is just the ones in the established workforce. If you lose your job in the US you lose your home, your healthcare, education for your children, your self esteem and status. Only food stamps and food banks will keep you alive. Many millions more people are unestablished or undocumented and cannot claim any state or charitable benefits whatsoever. At the same time, the US government are bailing out the large corporations, and hence the very rich, with a trillion dollar payout.

These protesters are justifiably angry. Angry enough that any risk of them catching Covid pales into insignificance which is why they are on the streets on masse. If you look at the crowds, most of them are white faces which tells you that this is more than the despicable police brutality towards blacks issue.

These riots are just a taste of what is to come, not just in the USA but worldwide.

Back to the UK….

A small protest in support of the US BLM movement which was attended by young people who are sympathetic to the cause but who are also the ones who have had their futures stolen by this government who disingeniously imposed this draconian lockdown which has most certainly destroyed the UK economy for the foresseeable future. Cruelly, they were actually arrested for breaking social distancing rules! Protest is at the heart of democracy, for example, without it women would not have the vote, yet right now it is actually illegal for any protest to take place. What have we done to our young?

There will be rebellion when everyone realises what a stupid and destructive thing this whole social experiment is. I say it is an experiment because it has never ever been done in the world before, not for disease, not for war, not for any reason. If the government continue to lie, not admit it was a mistake (Unlike what the brave Danes just did) and try to quell the upcoming protests there will be rioting on your doorstep.

When people, not just the young, start to smell poverty along with the taking away of their traditional freedoms it is all going to kick off. And when it does so it will be like nothing we have ever witnessed before.

18252 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to BobT, 5, #337 of 681 🔗

I was thinking the same that the protests are as much to do with the effects of lockdown as much as the death of George Floyd.

Somebody posted this video on FB: https://www.facebook.com/beardgamematters/videos/909339359492520/

It’s a black main chastising the rioters for destroying his business. Now Imagine that it’s a government, instead of rioters, that’s taken away his livelihood because of a virus:

“I worked too hard for this. It’s not right what y’all doing. Y’all burnt up my business. Why destroy my business?”

18270 ▶▶ Biker, replying to BobT, 13, #338 of 681 🔗

We won’t be rioting in Great Britain, we’re British for god’s sake. We’ll sort out this whole mess over a nice cup of tea and a scone. I have some hope that Boris will come good in the end but if he doesn’t i pray a Mrs Thatcher type pops up and cleans up the mess. My old mother would do, she knows a thing or two about decency and thrift and hard work and self reliance. Dedication that’s what we need, if we wanna be the best and beat all the rest, dedication is what we need. I actually blame Roy Castle for the complete collapse of western civilisation. If he hadn’t started his campaign to ban smoking this whole health and safety politically correct nightmare we now have to endure would never have started. Oh and Tap Dancing is shit, i couldn’t care less how many taps you can dance in a minute.

18271 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 1, #339 of 681 🔗

Biker, you’ve really cheered me up 👍🏻 thank you

18280 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #340 of 681 🔗

I also blame Blue Peter for the rise of virtue signalling. When they started their Blue Peter Appeal and you sent them milk bottle tops or empty toilet roll holders so they could sell them and raise money to send Percy Thrower to some far flung place to show the hapless locals how to grow a Blue Peter Garden it allowed those who can’t admit to themselves that they’re only doing this to make themselves feel better since they feel guilty because despite their best efforts to hide their individualism they still feel utterly selfish and despise those needing the help. Somehow this collective virtue signal has replaced the actual need to do anything that requires effort. The people clapping the NHS should all be given Blue Peter Badges, which isn’t a bad thing because i think you get free entry into historical sites upon the producing of the little blue shield.

18284 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #341 of 681 🔗

Me too … thanks!

18333 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to BobT, 2, #342 of 681 🔗

What comes after has always worried me, particularly with such a dearth of leadership. America (fortunately for us) is a different planet, I think it’s hard for us Brits to really get our heads around the scale of the racism, and how it is still on-going, and how wide and deep the fault lines are politically.

I’m totally for kids breaking the lockdown and organising, and rebelling.

I am worried by identity politics and how that gets mixed in with genuine grievances (see the posh twits who are ‘Antifa’ – they are the ones no platforming, and generally acting like totalitarian, authoritarian idiots, policing dissent in the culture wars) and how shallow virtue signalling is confused with genuine political organising. I mean, an instagram post of ‘look at me protesting’ is not the same as getting stuff done, and changing the material conditions of the people you profess to care about (see, for e.g. the UK Labour party, they spent the leadership contest mainly bickering about whether men could be women, and the working classes voted Tory in droves). By all means protest, but there does need to be some leadership, and pragmatism, and a willingness to get down in the details and secure change.

Anyway, I’m still figuring all this out, but I think unless we have a mass outbreak of critical thinking and political maturity, it’s going to get really muddled, mainly because the right on middle classes simply cannot resist presuming to speak for people and problems they haven’t got the first clue about.

18380 ▶▶ ianp, replying to BobT, 6, #343 of 681 🔗

Sorry, I don’t quite agree. This is all hideously complex now…. But to be sure on this, the composition of the BLM protesters included a large proportion of middle class left wing white wokeys, who have been the biggest supporters of lockdown and even more lockdown. The Momentum group, opportunists, supporters of the ANTIFA marxist anarchists. Without a doubt they are not on the side of normal folk who abhor the imposition of lockdown that restricts our freedom.

Anti- lockdown should not align itself with these dangerous idiots at all.

I am not a right winger as such, have previously voted Labour in the past, voted Remain, switched and swapped through several general elections but I can easily spot extremists on both sides of the so called Right/Left political divide and I can’t stand either of them

18458 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to ianp, 1, #344 of 681 🔗

Bravo, my thoughts exactly (and I’m extremely uncomfortable with the lumping of those woke idiots with the black community who have genuine grievances, some comments here are skating dangerously close to denying racism is an actual thing, and if that’s the case, I am off, because it most assuredly is real, and impacting the daily lives of people). I have no time for the parasitic political opportunists seeking to make hay with any of it, particularly antifa, and I agree Lockdown Sceptics should not touch any of it with a bargepole, our enemy’s enemy is not our friend.

18632 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, #345 of 681 🔗

Thanks Bec. You articulate my feelings perfectly.

18633 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BobT, #346 of 681 🔗

Land of the brave – indeed!
Home of the free – ?

18251 TJN, replying to TJN, 5, #347 of 681 🔗

Was the Government Really Following “the Science”?

Following the release of the SAGE meeting minutes, TY here and other commentators have noted that nowhere is SAGE recorded as recommended, or even discussing, a lockdown, and thus have concluded that the decision to implement the lockdown was essentially political.

There may well be a good deal of truth in this. But it is also important to remember what may have been said in unrecorded conversations between individual scientists and representatives of government. For example, can we confidently rule out Dominic Cummings and Neil Ferguson, to name at random just two individuals, having had meetings or telephone conversations relating to policy during that third week in March?

It is clear that many academics, with direct and indirect links to SAGE, have been entirely happy with the concept of lockdown; and it is difficult to read the Imperial College paper of 16 March and not surmise that, although hesitant to make such a draconian and unprecedented proposal at that stage, the authors would have been enthusiastically supportive of the Prime Minister’s announcement a week later.

TY writes: ‘Boris Johnson and his advisors were not following “the science” when they took the decision to lock down the country on March 23rd – they weren’t acting on any specific recommendations by SAGE.’ In narrow terms this may well be true. But it’s too soon to conclude that it is a fair reflection of what actually happened.

Historians are naturally driven to rely on written testimony; but a good historian will always attempt to imagine what was said between the actors in his story.

18260 ▶▶ sunchap, replying to TJN, 8, #348 of 681 🔗

What makes me the most upset is that by the time of the lockdowns in late March, it was known that the “Wuhan flu” had peaked and was starting to go down. The Wuhan figures on infections and mortality were available. It was also known that it mainly targeted those over 70.

Why on earth have a lockdown when an infectious disease has peaked and is going down? As it was going away the death rate would only marginally be reduced by locking up healthy adults and kids in close confinement in late winter. Shutting care homes may have made sense.

18261 ▶▶ Old fred, replying to TJN, 1, #349 of 681 🔗

….. and that is why Do and Trump does not use email. Similarly, Hitler avoided written instructions.

18267 ▶▶▶ Old fred, replying to Old fred, #350 of 681 🔗

Donald Trump!!!

18266 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to TJN, 8, #351 of 681 🔗

Nevertheless there is a pattern, which will be very much of interest to historians:


As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease ( HCID ) in the UK.


UK lockdown starts 23 March


‘…. emails leaked to the Ekstrabladet newspaper showed how on March 20, new calculations showing that the reproduction number in Denmark was 2.1, considerably lower than the 2.6 previously estimated, were held back because they were “not desired politically”.



Schools close 19 March

She conceded that she, together with the Directorate of Health, had overruled the advice of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health, which had not wanted to close schools or borders.’


A historian might almost conclude that leaders colluded, quite possibly to achieve some ‘herd immunity’ for themselves?

18273 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to TJN, 14, #352 of 681 🔗

Boris Johnson was affected by the Conte virus. This virus had its origin in Italy in the middle of March 2020 and has its name after the Italian prime minister who discovered it. Conte virus is an exponential increase of lockdowns, starting with a city, then a province and finally an entire country. The Conte virus was spread very quickly over Europe and the world and especially targeting top politicians. Unfortunately, there is no vaccine against the Conte virus due to lack of funding from Bill Gates foundation.

18290 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, 2, #353 of 681 🔗

I have only glanced over some of the collection of minutes. My view is that these are minutes of minutes, constructed in the expectation of being placed in the public domain long before departmental documents would be declassified. Allowing for the more recent tendency to sofa government, for anyone who has ever perused major collections in The National Archives, there are often drafts of minutes, hand-written memoranda, the sidebar scribblings of ministers’ aides on documents, letters between departments and other interested individuals. We might never get to the bottom of this, but someone commissioned the Imperial modelling of possible outcomes and someone provided Imperial with a special dataset from China, from which, the non peer-reviewed guestimate of 510k deaths if unmitigated was put into the public domain. Added to the rantings of various other third parties on both social media and programmes such as Question Time, plus teachers unions agitating and children being sent home from school if they as much as coughed, an inexperienced and ‘science-lite’ government panicked.

18327 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #354 of 681 🔗
18344 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #355 of 681 🔗

‘… minutes of minutes, constructed in the expectation of being placed in the public domain long before departmental documents would be declassified’

Yes, I suspect there is truth in what you write. In my experience, meeting minutes rarely capture the essence of discussions – rather an anodyne version of what was said, and often constructed from a political perspective. I’ve spent much time in the National Archives going through old government papers, and maybe that’s why I smell a rat here.

Clearly, the decision to lockdown was in part political: Johnson was following the international herd and the pleadings of the mainstream media, and he had little appetite for standing against the tide. And as it was reported over that crucial weekend, 20-23 March, it appears that he was under great pressure from other ministers to be more draconian in his approach. Lockdown was a politically low risk option at that time (only now are the risks materialising).

But from what we know thus far, I am entirely unconvinced that he wasn’t also being influenced by elements of the scientific community. On my reading, rather than a scientific paper written by academics, the Imperial College 16 March paper was essentially a policy document whose authors were seeking to influence government actions. I’ve long wondered how it got past SAGE to become effectively the foundation of government policy. I can’t understand how anyone used to reading technical or scientific papers would not have heard alarm bells ringing everywhere as they read it.

Were I a latter historian researching these events, I would ask myself whether, to some extent, SAGE was bypassed here, and whether somehow Ferguson and maybe others (perhaps through the auspices of, or in combination, with WHO?) had established a more direct line to government.

I feel that the version of events put forward here by TY, and by the others, is all too convenient for the various actors involved – SAGE, government, background personages – and that the truth may be a good deal less comfortable.

18421 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, 2, #356 of 681 🔗

I agree. There is often a very thin line between conspiracy and cock-up. A chronology with all the information laid out in a detailed timeline usually makes it easier to distinguish between the two. However, we are certainly missing many of the data points and information at the moment. Sanitised minutes from meetings should raise alarm bells.

18254 Biker, replying to Biker, 30, #357 of 681 🔗

Black Lives Matter, not to me they don’t. Couldn’t give a shit for anyone who identifies as such a thing. Unless you adhere to the idea that we are all individuals then i’m not interested. I can’t bare these collective types hiding their own weakness behind others. The BLM people are particularly stupid. If i were a collectivist like these clowns i’d be starting banks, buying land, forging businesses not burning down my house and blaming others for my shit life. No wait, sorry i was forgetting, it’s the white man that’s holding them back because anyone white is racist, sorry bout that i was getting confused. I promise i’ll go and watch the BBC for 24 hours to realign myself with the current cultural narrative where rioting is good and not rioting isn’t.

18277 ▶▶ StevieH, replying to Biker, 5, #358 of 681 🔗


18354 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Biker, 3, #359 of 681 🔗

Unfortunately it seems only white people are treated as individuals, while everyone else is part of any number of groups with an axe to grind for whitey.

18383 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Biker, 3, #360 of 681 🔗

Anyone who talks about “the poison of racism” but doesn’t recognise the real harm caused by the poison of antiracism is part of the problem. Both are divisive identity group positions that have the potential when taken too far to fuel hatred, division and violence, but the latter is actively promoted by the BBC and mainstream media and massively subsidised, whereas the former is pervasively propagandised against and actively suppressed as a dissident, forbidden political opinion.

18450 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, #361 of 681 🔗

There’s a difference between the black community mobilising and taking action against racism (which is a real thing), and the woke political opportunists seeking to exploit it. We can hold those two things simultaneously.

18469 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 2, #362 of 681 🔗

The point is that both racism and “antiracism” (which includes anti-white racism) are real things. If blacks are encouraged to organise on race lines to fight the former while whites are forbidden to organise themselves to resist the latter, or even allowed to speak effectively against it, that’s a recipe for disaster. And the same applies, mutatis mutandis, to other minority identity groups and their issues.

The whole idea of repressive “-isms” that hold people down encourages chip on shoulder bitterness and attacks on other groups (eg “positive discrimination”) to get “compensation”. It should not ever be encouraged for any minority.

18258 Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 9, #363 of 681 🔗

First time post after reading the main article and comments daily. I usually force myself to watch or read some mainstream media each week. Decided to watch GMB for half an hour before taking the dog for a walk, it’s always really disappointing and disheartening when it seems only “experts” on one side of the fence are given air time (unless after turning off out of frustration I miss them!).

They frequently mention 8000 a day newly infected, you can see why so many people are still frightened when figures like that are mentioned.

18357 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Rabbit, 3, #364 of 681 🔗

Hmm, why does this sound so familiar….?

Oh, yes! That’s exactly what all the Brexit coverage was like!!

18454 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Edgar Friendly, 2, #365 of 681 🔗

Reminds me more and more of Project Fear every day.

18259 Biker, 2, #366 of 681 🔗

any other hoops i should jump through to appease your sensibilities or can i carry on thinking, doing and saying what i want? Only asking because i’ve discovered that you are the fountain of wisdom and if you think people shouldn’t say stuff like, “not use the phrase bed wetters” i fear i may be saying other things that a clever person like yourself might not like and i wouldn’t want you to get all upset and maybe wet the bed.

18269 Nobody2020, 6, #367 of 681 🔗

Old Fred mentioned this below so I sought it out:


Control COVID-19 – Whatever the cost?

18272 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #368 of 681 🔗

Another random thought.

Lockdown to me is akin to a gang initiation. New members of a gang are made to kill somebody to prove their worth but more importantly ensure their loyalty. They can’t inform on their fellow members without implicating themselves.

So in a similar vein governments around the world were one by one initiated into the Lockdown gang. Behind the scenes there may well have been pressure put on those who hadn’t joined, there’s certainly a suggestion that Macron put the squeeze on Johnson.

And they’ll continue to back each other up as that’s the best way to protect each other.

18275 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #369 of 681 🔗

*best way to protect themselves.

18396 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #370 of 681 🔗

I think you’re dead right. No govt wanted to be the only kid in the playground that wasn’t in the gang.
Except those pesky Swedes … the clever child who is tough enough to stand alone.

18281 mjr, replying to mjr, 22, #371 of 681 🔗

just watched morning tv.
BBC interviewing scouse family who lost a father and they blame the government for allowing the liverpool madrid football match as they are convinced he caught it from a spaniard and so wanting an inquiry. and then turned over to GMB and Morgan has a panel with another sad bereaved and he and Reid still going on and on and on about cummings .. Bravo to Brendan from spiked who attempted to put some realism in there but Morgan is getting more and more hysterical. Just confirms that no sane person should ever watch news programmes …….

18406 ▶▶ Marion, replying to mjr, 2, #372 of 681 🔗

Hard to say these are news programmes, though. Don’t watch the propaganda (unless the purpose is to better understand the enemy, I suppose).

18860 ▶▶ ianp, replying to mjr, #373 of 681 🔗

Erm… Don’t football grounds have segregated away sections? The magic virus wafted through the air did it?

Where there’s blame there’s a claim…

18282 paulito, replying to paulito, 12, #374 of 681 🔗

Today’s El Mundo- Castilla- La Mancha 500 youths gathered in a park for an open air drinking session. And, shock, horror, many were not wearing masks, observing 2 metre distancing nor the limit of 10 people per group. Good on them!

18283 ▶▶ Hugh_Manity, replying to paulito, #375 of 681 🔗

Have you got a photo or can you link to one?

18389 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Hugh_Manity, 1, #376 of 681 🔗

Here you go Hugh. The only photo I’ve seen so far. By the way, El Mundo says 500 people but ABC 3,000. https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2020/06/01/5ed4a063fdddff4d138b45fa.html

18636 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, #377 of 681 🔗

Didn’t look like 3000 but could be itentional.

Also, I notice most of the litter is for soft drinks – which is probably as well because 500 (or 3000) pissed-off youths out on the piss is a scary prospect.

18286 Moomin, 15, #378 of 681 🔗

1st June 1984. Winston wakes up and smiles through gritted teeth as others thank the Ministry of Truth for graciously allowing six people to meet together.

18287 Awkward Git, 3, #379 of 681 🔗

Toby – remember the narrative. You only get favourable and sympathetic coverage if what you are doing follows the plan. Always been the way.

18288 swedenborg, 6, #380 of 681 🔗


This is quite interesting read in this thread above about cellular immunity to Covid-19 being perhaps more important than antibodies in Covid-19. Explaining many clinical features incl. mild cases in young and also most importantly explains the pandemic curve and that 60% herd immunity not required


“Endemic  HCoV account for about 20% of “common cold” upper respiratory tract infections in humans. HCoV infections are ubiquitous, but they display a winter seasonality in temperate regions. Based on epidemiological data indicating an average of two episodes of “common cold” per year in the adultpopulation, it maybe extrapolated that the average adult contracts a HCoV infection on average every two to three years. Protective antibodies may wane in the interim but cellular immunity could remain.”


“This type of “mucosal IgA”antibody response seemed to be particularly prevalent in younger individuals with mild SARS-CoV-2 infection without evidence of pneumonia.”

18291 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #381 of 681 🔗

Found this report on the SAGE website, it’s from early on in the “pandemic. Telling line to me is:

However, although age-adjusted mortality rates are high in the elderly, most of these patients were admitted to hospital with symptoms of COVID-19 and would not have died otherwise. my highlighting.

Doe this mean they died due to being in hospital?

The report:


The website:


18323 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #382 of 681 🔗

My reading of it is that these people would not have died if if they didn’t need hospitalisation due to becoming infected.

18376 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #383 of 681 🔗

No matter how you read it (and it is a bit ambiguous) something about being hospitalised killed them, not the virus.

18638 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #384 of 681 🔗

That’s how I read it. Reader bias?

18294 Barney McGrew, 20, #385 of 681 🔗

Matthew Parris in today’s Spectator is thinking about the same things we were suggesting several weeks ago. Clearly he doesn’t frequent this web site.

“That figure, of about one in five, interests me more and more. I first noticed it in reports of the proportion of cruise passengers infected on the Diamond Princess in February. Apparently just under 20 per cent had been infected; and on another cruise ship, the Grand Princess , some 16 per cent had the antibodies. In Stockholm (where restrictions have been lighter than in Britain), Sweden’s chief state epidemiologist believes around 20 per cent will have the antibodies, leaving 80 per cent theoretically vulnerable — but the infection rate there has been falling for more than a month. Governor Andrew Cuomo (headlines the New York Times ) ‘says 21 per cent of those tested in NYC had virus antibodies’. Yet the city is beginning to unlock as the infection rate falls fast.
There are outliers to this cluster of ‘one-in-five infected’ reports but the clustering is hard to ignore.”

He concludes:

“…there could be some varying measure of resistance to Covid-19 among many who may not test positive for the Covid-19–specific antibodies; and in focusing on that Covid antibody test alone as indicating a pass-or-fail immunity, we could be overlooking important ways in which humans may be endowed with, or acquire, other kinds of resistance. If this is true, then ‘herd immunity’ may be a more complicated threshold than we have realised — and easier to reach.”


I find this fascinating: columnists who are not scientists but have a nose for inconsistencies, are seemingly more aware of a natural phenomenon than professional experts. I think we are seeing how ‘expertise’ often accompanies rigidity of thought, leading to misplaced certainty. While the twitterati would decry Matthew Parris’s efforts in epidemiology, I think they would be wrong. A critical thinker is a critical thinker whatever their background. Many ‘experts’ are not critical thinkers – leading to tragic results when they are let loose in politics.

18296 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 14, #386 of 681 🔗

I’m scunnered with those TV adverts for banks and the like seeking to jump on the bandwagon of the pretendy “we’re all in this together” cosy sentiment of the Covid crisis. The worst one is the Bank of Scotland with Susan Calman. Not sure if it’s only shown in Scotland, you’re lucky if you don’t see it elsewhere, it’s vomit-inducing.

18300 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Gillian, 8, #387 of 681 🔗

Same here in Spain. Every ad goes on and on about Covid. My boycott list is growing ever longer.

18307 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Gillian, 1, #388 of 681 🔗

It’s on Youtube:
You’ve seen the Coca-Cola and Cadbury’s ones as well? Goodness me.

18309 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Gillian, 2, #389 of 681 🔗

Agree. There’s one for Lloyds on the radio, sounds like Imelda Staunton, all touchy-feely and fluffy-wuffy. Bet that won’t last!

18319 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Gillian, 6, #390 of 681 🔗

the Lloyds megabank regionalise so BoS is only scotland.
worse than this is the Uber advert. All the NHS saints thanking their Uber drivers. As if they were doing something special.

18331 ▶▶ A13, replying to Gillian, 5, #391 of 681 🔗

Adding Levi’s to my boycott list…
This is on the first page of Levi’s US website:


We simply cannot sit idly by and think this is Black people’s problem. It is America’s problem, our greatest shame.


Face palm

18374 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to A13, 2, #392 of 681 🔗

Perhaps they should only sell black jeans from now on to show ‘solidarity’

18337 ▶▶ A13, replying to Gillian, 3, #393 of 681 🔗

For all of you designers/creative people here (or anyone else interested), here is a good blog post about designers and big companies jumping on a covid bandwagon. It sums up all the nonsense pretty well.

“Coronagrifting – A design phenomenon”

18642 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A13, #394 of 681 🔗

Oh my, those restaurant screens only need a hairdryer in the top.
And did you spot this? https://www.designboom.com/design/student-creates-transparent-masks-deaf-hard-of-hearing-04-08-2020/

18652 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Farinances, #396 of 681 🔗

Oh goodness, watch for the numpties sticking their heads in plastic bags and tying them round their faces now . . . that will of course go down i the stats as a “corona death”

18863 ▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Farinances, #397 of 681 🔗

Love it… Gold dust alert!!! I now have all these bookmarked in a folder ready to unleash on the apathetic… (The fear sodden sheep cannot be saved)

18360 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Gillian, 2, #398 of 681 🔗

I get around it by not watching live TV broadcasts.

18364 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Gillian, 2, #399 of 681 🔗

I hope they practiced good social distancing measures while pumping out all these new adverts…!

18367 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Gillian, 5, #400 of 681 🔗

Just one of the many reasons that I don’t watch TV or listen to broadcast radio.

It’s just wall to wall poison, designed by nihilists to undermine western society and give succour to our enemies.

18377 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gillian, 1, #401 of 681 🔗

I ignore them must as I ignore the MSM. Its cynical and jumping on the bandwagon. Never again.

18378 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, #402 of 681 🔗

“just” – D’OH!!!

18640 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, #403 of 681 🔗

I don’t watch commercial tv, as I can’t stand having my programmes chopped so I can be shouted at by advertisers. Sounds like I’ve been missing quite a party!

18649 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Gillian, #404 of 681 🔗

I don’t watch television any more, but that sounds really annoying. I’d end up throwing things across the room in anger I think. Which is precisely why I don’t watch television any more 😄 I’ll watch something on Netflix or Amazon Prime, or put on some DVDs, but I don’t want Covid in my living room 24/7. It’s as though the MSM are now bored after Brexit was pretty much, well sort of, completed on 31 January and have fastened onto Covid as their Next Big Thing which they have to keep running and running.

18297 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 19, #405 of 681 🔗

Poor Boris. Spends his whole life comparing himself to Churchill and then when his 1940 moment came to lead the free world he messed it up and followed a nonentity’s advice. In fact, the very worst possible advice that was available.

The only way he can make this up to us now is to restore freedom of speech, secure our borders, leave without a deal, and generally tell the globalists to get stuffed.

18304 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Mike Smith, 15, #406 of 681 🔗

No, it is now much too late to recover his reputation: he has mightily trashed the UK and very many people’s lives, all for a trivial reason.

18326 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to IanE, 9, #407 of 681 🔗

Agree, I cannot see a way back from this wholly unnecessary multi-generational damage. It is difficult to see how the political parties can/will present their case to voters in the next general election because it is four years of extreme pain from now onwards, and they all backed the policy response.

18362 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #408 of 681 🔗

Boris only has 2 jobs now. Get Brexit done and act as the blame sponge for the fallout from COVID.

After that, the Tories would be well advised to replace him a good couple of years ahead of the next election… the trouble is… with whom? Is there a single senior Tory who’s had a good war? I’m not sure there is.

18379 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AidanR, 2, #409 of 681 🔗

No head of state or head of government worldwide has really handled this well (maybe very few exceptions) but as the global economy tanks and more people are heading towards unemployment, bankruptcy, hunger, mental illness and other consequences we will just have to muddle through with very little to no choice come an election.

18385 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #410 of 681 🔗

If you intend to vote for any of the three main parties at the next election, then you’re part of the problem. We have three globalist parties in the UK, with all that that implies. If we want something else we have to vote for something else. It’s no use just hoping the bullies will leave us alone.

18422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #411 of 681 🔗

Don’t worry. I plan to spoil my ballot – NONE OF THE ABOVE is what I will write.

18401 ▶▶▶▶▶ Marion, replying to AidanR, 1, #412 of 681 🔗

There is absolutely no one.

18643 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, #413 of 681 🔗

Jeremy *unt has been lining himself up.

18359 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mike Smith, 6, #414 of 681 🔗

There’s the problem though… Boris comparing himself to Churchill is like Theresa May comparing herself to Thatcher – a palpably ludicrous comparison that shames anyone dumb enough to give it the slightest credence.

18398 ▶▶ Marion, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #415 of 681 🔗

But Al (Boris) Johnson is a globalist. He wants amnesty for illegal immigrants and was party (as in being a cabinet member of the May ‘government’) to signing the UN Treaty on Migration) which is basically open borders. Also he believes in all this Co2 nonsense and is willing to bankrupt the country with terribly foolish ‘green’ policies – net zero – whatever the hell that means. He is wholly behind every woke, idiotic idea going, as are all western governments. He does not care for the ordinary tax payers of this country; if he did he would have ended this lockdown weeks ago (or not even started it) because the overwhelming evidence against it are obvious to anyone one with half a brain. The quality of our politicians is appalling. As another poster writes here, never forget, never forgive.

18298 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 6, #416 of 681 🔗

So if it’s not in the SAGE minutes, where is the decision to lockdown recorded? When and where and at what time and date was the decision made, and by whom?

18348 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Cecil B, #417 of 681 🔗

Might have to wait 20 years for Cabinet records to be released!

18352 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Sally, 3, #418 of 681 🔗

We had a similar conversation on the Speccie a while ago – a contributor pointed out that the records should be released early, like in the coming months. Good idea I think. This lot need to be held to account. And there is no question of national security here.

18592 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Sally, #419 of 681 🔗

I get the records out of my cabinet a lot faster.
It’s a much better cabinet too.

18451 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cecil B, 1, #420 of 681 🔗

I’d guess it was never recorded for obvious reasons. The only ‘proof’ we will have of who decided what and when is witness statements from people whose advice was ignored like those who are saying they were ‘steamrollered’- like the health authorities in Denmark did.
Trouble is, where’s the person here who will grow some balls, speak out and admit the decision was kneejerk and purely political? – Cause I don’t see them and that is beyond depressing.
Basically the more centralised power is, the worse the lockdown has been – and this includes those US states who have gone mad too. They tend to be huge metropolitan centres of power (New York, California, etc.)

18315 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 23, #421 of 681 🔗

I’m not surprised that more and more people are flouting lockdown rules, You can tell people about dangers as much as you like but without personal evidence they will gradually stop taking any notice. A bit like those motorway signs warning of a queue or obstruction ahead and telling drivers to slow down when in fact there is nothing so no one bothers any more.
I only know of one person who has died from Covid, the elderly and ill father of an acquaintance, and know of no one who has been diagnosed with it (although I’m pretty sure I had it at the end of January and it wasn’t pleasant). I’m sure many people are the same, if they know of someone who has definitely had a serious bout of the virus it is likely to be 2nd or 3rd hand, or even hearsay. Most of us have listened to instructions and abided by the rules, whatever we thought, for over two months but people can only take so much doom and gloom.
Once it becomes obvious that you’re unlikely to become infected by meeting family and friends, hugging your grandchildren, taking a trip to a busy park or the seaside, more and more people will do it. Local powers everywhere should accept this, open car parks, toilets, take-always, cafes, pubs, spending time and money on ensuring good hygiene practices in these places rather than ticking off the general public.

18325 ▶▶ Anthony, replying to Suitejb, 6, #422 of 681 🔗

You’re spot on. I don’t personally know anyone who’s died or tested positive for the virus. I know of three second hand accounts of fatalities, all of which were in people around 80 and in every case the designation of Covid as the cause of death was disputed by the families.

18432 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Anthony, 4, #423 of 681 🔗

I was saying the other day that in the 40+ years I’ve been alive I’ve never known anybody to die from Flu. If the IFR for COVID-19 is around 0.26% (roughly twice that of Flu) then there’s every chance I won’t know anybody dying from this in the next 40 years, should I live that long.

18329 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Suitejb, 4, #424 of 681 🔗

I’m actually surprised that more people are doing what they’re told, it’s worse that people are embracing it, no relishing it, leaves me cold.

Humans can be very inhuman when encouraged and given permission.

The early days of the holocaust, when the excucution of ‘undesirables’ where performed using a pistol, used volunteers. The authorities even recognised that killing people would place mental strain on the volunteers so they encouraged breaks and even ending their participation.

Willing participants……

18340 ▶▶▶ Geraint, replying to Winston Smith, 8, #425 of 681 🔗

These are the ‘Coronaphiles’ – loving every minute of this as they get a chance to be little nannies and informers. Many of the more froth-flecked are on BBC News website ‘have your say’ threads….Please join me in giving them hell on there – it is a bit of a lonely job

18349 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Geraint, 3, #426 of 681 🔗

Multiple examples of the Coronaphiles on the trending #secondwave twitter thread – https://twitter.com/search?q=%23SecondPeak&src=trend_click

I had a look out of curiosity and wish I hadn’t. My laptop nearly became a projectile missile.

18370 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sarigan, 4, #427 of 681 🔗

Some rational posts in there though, on lockdown easing:

“Kids going to school like lambs to slaughter”
“They have eased, & risked tens of thousands of lives, simply to cover their backs”

“my kids are not at school. I will not let my kids be part of your stupid experiment”

  • Keeping people in lockdown isn’t an experiment?

Piers Morgan – “The #SecondPeak is coming. Where’s the science?”

  • Indeed Piers, where’s the science?

On protests:

“these people are fighting for what’s right, you were just being selfish”

  • Seems killing people with your breath is acceptable as long as your cause is justified

Also a few people posting this:


When really they should be looking at this:


I thought Twitter were meant to be removing misinformation.

18358 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Geraint, 15, #428 of 681 🔗

I have to say as with Brexit and the trials and tribulations Brexiteers had to endure and now the Coronavirus and the reaction to it by my fellowman I am not feeling the ‘lurve’. In fact mask wearers and those following social distancing whilst out walking, now ignite strong feelings of animosity in me! 😠

18369 ▶▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #429 of 681 🔗

So agree with you on this, all the people on my Facebook feed pro lockdown were, surprise surprise, all pro staying in the EU.

Same reactions and totally unwilling to listen to a different viewpoint.

18382 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ambwozere, 2, #430 of 681 🔗

Glad I’m not the only one because I notice that as well with the people I know on FB. Not to mention many of them are pretty well off too.

18409 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #431 of 681 🔗

Yes, I’m sure no person on the SAGE committee has been in danger of being furloughed or, further down the track, being made redundant. All, I suspect, drawing 100% salaries. So absolutely no hurry to encourage businesses to re-open or to get the economy moving.
As mentioned on here previously, our company will be making redundant end-July most staff currently furloughed. These were very well paid jobs.
Until end February, we had a successful company. Almost all gone in two and a half months of lockdown and after 25 years.The asset value of our office also rendered next to worthless.

18529 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Geraint, replying to Locked down and out, 3, #432 of 681 🔗

Shocked and very sorry to hear that. I guess your story multiplied thousands of times is the harvest of this utter hysteria..Lockdown lovers mostly populated by those with no ‘skin in the game’… No job at risk, no furlough, no threat to pension savings…

18824 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Locked down and out, #433 of 681 🔗

That’s the problem – its the “I’m allright Jack” mentality and they don’t care about other people. Or claim they do by supporting the lockdown and wearing masks.

18395 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to ambwozere, 1, #434 of 681 🔗

There is a distinct similarity between anti Brexit and pro Lockdowners and of course the Remoaners who are trying to use this virus to extend the transition period.

18509 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to ambwozere, 4, #435 of 681 🔗

Not everyone! I was/am a Remainer but am also a lockdown sceptic. For me they are separate issues and I’ve said that on here before. Don’t assume we are all the same.

18590 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to ambwozere, #436 of 681 🔗

They like authority. It makes them feel bad about themselves.

18648 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Geraint, 1, #437 of 681 🔗

Didn’t know about that! Thanks for your great contribution to the service of public sanity Geraint.

18332 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #438 of 681 🔗

Two reports about speculation of Covid-19 infection and immunisations.

There have been reports that the elderly population in the Lombardy region had recently been vaccinated in a campaign against influenza during the autumn winter 2019. There was some speculation that the severity of the Covid-19 infection could be side effects of the flu vaccination. We all brushed off such as a pure speculative conclusion but the below link from a correspondence to BMA might give a hint that this speculative thinking should be investigated further.
The other report is more in the realm of speculations. MMR vaccinations might be protective against Covid-19.
This is done by the observation that younger persons were more protected against Covid-19 than older people with old immunity to naturally acquired measles infection. Also that Sweden with one of the highest MMR immunisations in the world had so few cases and deaths in that age group. They also claim that the rubella part of the MMR vaccine might have some homology with Covid-19 virus.
The main fault is of course that observation is not the same thing as causation. But posted this just as a curiosity in case someone find this.

18345 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to swedenborg, 1, #439 of 681 🔗

It was also said the BCG vaccination for TB appeared to give some immunity to Covid as well.

18387 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to swedenborg, #440 of 681 🔗

Speculation, correlation or causation?

18407 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Victoria, #441 of 681 🔗

The first is speculation with some minor substance.The second is just an observation which in itself doesn’t prove a cause unless more substantial information to test this observation

18411 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to swedenborg, 1, #442 of 681 🔗

It might also be significant that a very large number of the healthcare workers who have died are not just BAME, but were born in countries that are TB hotspots.

18635 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #443 of 681 🔗

Ah-ah! I’ve been waiting for weeks for someone to touch on this point. Do you remember a good few weeks ago (I lose track of time in this mess) that it was being suggested that people who had had the BCG vaccination were six times less likely to develop covid symptoms? Researchers in several countries (Australia is one, I think) are now looking at this, but recent reports suggest the correlation is false. So I got to wondering: could it be that the high number of BAME healthcare workers who had died could have been born in a country other than the UK which didn’t have a BCG programme and thus missed out on having a BCG as a child (I know that many other countries do have comprehensive BCG vaccination programmes, better, indeed, than the UK which has reduced the BCG programme in recent years, so my assumption may be unfounded). If these workers were born in TB hotspots, this does tend to suggest those countries did not have a BCG programme.

18334 Geraint, replying to Geraint, 13, #444 of 681 🔗

Van Tam twaddling on about ‘dangerous moment’ is a disgrace – let him know what you think at his Nottingham Uni comfy ivory tower…. And did anyone else almost vomit with rage at Jeanelle de Gruchy president of Association of Directors of Public Health arguing, from her that we are ‘moving too fast’ on Today this morning? The brainwashing continues apace….

18356 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Geraint, 4, #445 of 681 🔗

The phrase “Jeanelle de Gruchy president of Association of Directors of Public Health” contains so many problems it’d take a feature-length post just to unpack it… or perhaps just a referral to a Chris Snowden book.

18659 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Geraint, 1, #446 of 681 🔗

It reminded me of the party game where you have to insert three random words into a monologue and your opponents have to guess the woords. The weird use of “dangerous” struck me a shighly suspect.
I remember several weeks back, Chris Witty on the daily briefing starten to mention the NHS, then hastily corrected himself and said, rather half-heartedly, “our fantastic NHS”. They must spend all afternoon before the briefings practising getting in the propaganda and the key psyop words.
Note that Boris showed us what

18661 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #447 of 681 🔗

(oops! edit button needed)…. Boris showed us the strategy at his very first cabinet meeting. Altogether now: “How many …..?”

18339 Sceptique, 11, #448 of 681 🔗

Millions of Australians marched through Sydney yesterday, flouting anti lockdown rules to protest agains fascist lockdown rules and impending mandatory vaccination. The ‘Traditional Owners’ (Aboriginals) leading the march. Naturally being depicted as ‘Antivax’ nutters. However the Traditional Owners have a lot of respect and influence there.

Here is the Utube clip.


18341 BecJT, 3, #449 of 681 🔗

Meant to post this ages ago, but have any of you looked at the Covid Mutal Aid Network? https://covidmutualaid.org/ There’s a network in my town (I am drawing a distinction between the community minded people who signed up to help their neighbours, and the people organising the thing, HQ sent some people up to do some ‘training’).

It’s actually an offshoot of QueerCare (a really militant transactivist group) https://queercare.network/our-work/resources/covid-19/

And from there, it’s a hop skip and a jump to Antifa https://queercare.network/help-out/shop/ (again make a distinction between people who are genuinely anti fascist, and the posh twerps who are more fascist than fascists in their pursuit of antifascism!).

As I’ve said down thread, I’m totally for peaceful protest, it’s a fundamental democratic right, and I’m all for people flouting lockdown. I am worried about all that becoming blurred with identity politics, and the culture wars, I don’t think it’ll do any of us any good, particularly as economic reality starts to bite.

18363 Bob, #450 of 681 🔗

From the Telegraph, in support of retaining the lockdown:
‘Sage member Prof Calum Semple warned: “We are lifting the lid on a boiling pan, and it’s just going to bubble over. We need to get it down to simmer before we take the lid off, and it’s too early.”‘

So speaks somebody who has never used a pan? The quickest way to reduce the temperature and stop one boiling over is precisely to take the lid off!

18366 swedenborg, 5, #451 of 681 🔗

Boris Johnson as a skipper.
Found this metaphor on twitter quite good
“As a skipper and blue water sailor, one should never sail into poorly charted waters, simply to avoid a storm. A storm always looks its worst when on the horizon. Your vessel is made to handle storms, but it is not made to handle running aground. This key principle, they missed.”
Storm Covid-19. Running aground lockdown.

18388 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #453 of 681 🔗

Of course they are exempt the only people not exempt will be the General Public. We are entering Brave New World territory of alphas, betas, gammas, deltas and epsilons.

18381 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #454 of 681 🔗

I saw this comment in the DT and thought it hilarious, if true.

The SNP Scottish Government have set up a new helpline called the ‘Urination Helpline’ – if we need to take a leak in these dangerous times we can ring it and find out where to do it, how to do it and what precautions we need to take to make sure we are safe. There was to be one regarding the use of toilet tissue but they were unable to do two things at once, so it will be released in 2022 and instead of costing £100 it will cost £10,000,000.

18384 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, #455 of 681 🔗

Can’t be … can it …?

18399 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to annie, 1, #456 of 681 🔗

We live in insane times Annie who would have thought 3 months ago we’d be where we are today?

18386 annie, replying to annie, 13, #457 of 681 🔗

DT reports ministers are afraid to let Christians sing hymns because ‘singing can lead to exhalation’.
Unlike breathing, presumably.

18428 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to annie, 6, #458 of 681 🔗

What an imbecile! Does this mean that you’re only safe from Coronavirus when you’ve stopped breathing? As a Christian one of my biggest frustrations has been the lack of questions from the church about the fact it’s now illegal to meet together.

18587 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Moomin, #459 of 681 🔗

That’s because they’re all full of wimps

18668 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #460 of 681 🔗

Private Eye had better watch out. The DT is going to beat it as a satirical publication.

18392 Edna, replying to Edna, 8, #461 of 681 🔗

I wonder whether I’m missing something with the headline of “8000 new cases” yesterday (or last week, or whatever). To me, it seems that if those cases are in the community, shouldn’t that be cause for celebration? The more people outside of hospital and care homes that have the virus, the better, because it rapidly increases the herd immunity of the nation. I’m quite happy to concede that I’ve completely missed an important aspect of something though!

I had a good dog walk this morning, met several people, none of whom jumped out my way and on two different occasions spoke to someone, again with neither of them particularly observing the unsocial distancing. In fact one the two chaps had his son with him and the son wanted to say hello to one of my dogs. So I asked the son (I imagine he was about 9 or 10) whether he’d like to give a treat to the dog; he said yes so I got a treat out and gave it to him – didn’t cross my mind that officially I shouldn’t be getting that close to him! The father didn’t object and the son was very happy to give the dog the treat 🙂

18397 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Edna, 5, #462 of 681 🔗

The dog was probably happy too! 🙂 🙂

18403 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #463 of 681 🔗

An analogy:

If somebody was drowing in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean would you get 65M people to make a human chain to save that person? Bearing in mind that some of those 65M will be at risk of drowning.

18405 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #464 of 681 🔗

Only if the chain was made of politicians and human rights lawyers!

18404 IanE, 15, #465 of 681 🔗

Mirabile dictu!

Boris has finally made a good decision – he has blocked Corbyn’s suggested peerage for Bercow. Proving the dictum about stopped clocks.


18408 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, -4, #466 of 681 🔗

Saw this on my Facebook feed and its not nice to see people being fobbed off with standard replies:




18508 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #467 of 681 🔗

Is that Welsh?

18516 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to grammarschoolman, 6, #468 of 681 🔗

It’s the new standard length for a “Covid secure” password.

18811 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to grammarschoolman, #469 of 681 🔗

It is. LOL!!!

18527 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to Bart Simpson, #470 of 681 🔗


18810 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sceptique, #471 of 681 🔗

I was trying to post a link but it went haywire.

18410 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 4, #472 of 681 🔗

A woman trained a contact tracer, and then spilled the beans, this is quite chilling https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPRzfueukN4&t

18439 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to BecJT, 3, #473 of 681 🔗

Thanks so much for this! I’ve been hoping someone on the inside would talk

18498 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 6, #474 of 681 🔗

So – watched it.

The best thing we can do, without a doubt, from now on, IS NOT TO BE TESTED.

They can’t contact trace without testing. If you have symptoms, do what you would normally do – go to bed for a few days. Stay at home. Do what we were told to do initially – well, at least until your symptoms have gone. Contact anyone you are concerned about personally. Do not involve the authorities.

Do NOT be recorded as a ‘case’. Don’t give them the ammo for futher lockdown. Don’t let them mine you for the personal data of your family, friends and contacts.

18677 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, 1, #475 of 681 🔗

If you don’t have our own bathroom go stay in a hotel room (while you’re not earning any money!)
Don’t touch your dog??

18412 Bart Simpson, 6, #476 of 681 🔗

Apologies for that earlier post, looks like it went loco.

Anyway as I was saying, I saw this on my Facebook feed and its not nice to see people being fobbed off with standard replies:

This constant bleating about safety is rather annoying and patronising. A lot of their properties are so huge that you can go for a walk and not see a single soul for a long time.

I can now understand why people are cancelling their memberships.

18414 Mike Smith, 11, #477 of 681 🔗

This guy is fantastic:
London cab driver talking about his 88 year-old father-in-law, who as a boy could walk around the countryside in Kent with German bombers overhead, but is now supposed to stay indoors for months on end. Kent part starts at 1:50.
Excellent channel as well.

18415 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 12, #478 of 681 🔗

Maybe I am just slow in picking up on things, but until recently, I could never get my head around why tens of thousands of people should protest against the murder of one man when they failed to even raise an eyebrow over the forced incarceration of nearly the entire world’s population?

Now don’t get me wrong here, the death of that man was well worth protesting about when the thug that caused it was wandering around a free man – but he no longer is, so the matter is over, no amount of protesting, looting and burning is going to reincarnate his victim.

Then, the light came on.

We have raised a generation of people who, perhaps through no fault of their own, received an indoctrination instead of an education from schools, universities, social media, broadcast media and the like. A brainwashing or ‘greenwashing’ if you like to call it that. Their agenda is to overthrow normal society and replace it with something else. I am not sure what, neither are they, but they want it just the same.

So along comes a government so hell-bent on self harm that, overnight they have begun the revolution sought by this generation without the slightest risk of danger or effort on the part of those advocating it. Why would they protest that? It is what they desire.

But then along comes one, admittedly extreme, example of racism and they are out in droves because it fits their political world view that one of the many ‘isms’ that cannot be tolerated in the new order is racism. The problem here is what the definition of racism is -‘Black Live Matter’ is a fiercely racist slogan.

And now for something completely different.

In the murky world of deception and half-truths we used to have just – lies, damned lies and statistics.
Then we transitioned to – lies, damned lies, statistics and computer models.
And now we have – lies, damned lies, statistics, computer models and computer models from scientists with political agendas.

18420 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Old Bill, 16, #479 of 681 🔗

“Now don’t get me wrong here, the death of that man was well worth protesting about when the thug that caused it was wandering around a free man”

No it wasn’t.

1 It happened in a foreign country, involving foreign police, foreign laws, and a man with no connection to this country whatsoever. If we are going t get upset about the violent deaths of strangers, what about the other 2000-odd violent deaths of strangers that occur every single day, on average, around the world?

2 How do you – or any of us, or anyone who wasn’t there – know whether the death was an “outrage”, or even a criminal act at all? Context is always vital, and video footage is as likely to mislead as to inform. In these situations we know that our media and social media, that is currently so busy lying us into compliance with lockdown, also lies to us to further an “antiracist” agenda,and absolutely cannot be trusted on this kind of event and issue.

3 The US, like us, has procedures to try to get to the bottom of this kind of event, and it will be examined closely to determine if any crime was committed. Just because a man died does not prove anything. Whether the policeman involved can possibly get a fair trial seems unlikely in the current situation in the US, but that’s their problem.

4 If you think these people really care about this victim as a person, you are very naive. They see him as an issue to be exploited to further their political and social ends, from pushing the interests of their identity group and the power and influence of their lobbyists, or damaging their political enemies, to signalling their own personal virtue.

Other than that, I pretty much agree with the rest of what you write.

18423 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Old Bill, 9, #480 of 681 🔗

The problem as i see it is several generations deep, and involves the raising of people who are not encouraged to ‘do for themselves’, i.e. they expect something to be done for them, by other people. And thus to do anything they have to complain and harangue and protest until they get what they want. It is the toddler enthralled by the TV advert into nagging the parent until they give in and buy the toy. This paradox has percolated out into the realms of governance, whereby when people feel they need something to be done for them to change their society the only way by which they know to get it is protest and chaos until somebody in charge agrees or shows fealty to the mob demand. It’s a fix, because if those in charge try the route of discipline, attempting to quell the trouble, it just acts as an example of the ‘oppression’ the protesters are moaning about, and therefore to get them to go away they have to acquiesce to the demand. It never occurs to people to alter their behaviour or use their own labour to attempt to effect the change they want to see take place, it is expected to be conferred. Therefore, we have generations of peons still under the charge of higher governance which deigns to offer concessions to the lower in its infinite grace and mercy, but peons furnished with smartphones and unfathomably profound levels self-importance.

18416 Mark Wayne, #481 of 681 🔗

Please consider posting on today’s page about how the updated Coronvirus regulations now make it a criminal offence to “without reasonable excuse, stay overnight at any place other than the place where they are living”, with certain limited examples of what constitutes a reasonable excuse in the next subsection .

While in some ways this is less restrictive than the previous position (in that, other than the overnight restriction and gatherings you can now leave your house as you want), this is now worrying black and white regarding staying over somewhere. Unless I’m missing something (which may be come clearer when the publish the consolidated updated regulations, rather than just the amendmends), that means you couldn’t for example go on holiday abroad even if you wanted to. What an appalling piece of legislation.

18418 annie, replying to annie, 28, #482 of 681 🔗

The Muse has consented to tackle the major general’s song. However, being in Gulag Wales, it came out as a hymn to Comrade Drakeford:

I am the very model of a bullying First Minister:
My everyday activities can be described as sinister.
If you want to brag and bully I have found the right solution:
You just create a tyranny and call it devolution.
Then you can turn what optimists were wont to call a nation
Into something reminiscent of a camp of concentration.
I’ve locked the parks and playgrounds, and with haste that was quite frantic
I’ve sealed the whole Welsh coast, from Anglesey to the Atlantic.

Your house is not inviolate, the police can burst right into it
If they have cause to think you may commit some Covid sin in it.
In short, all my activities are so extremely sinister,
I am the very model of a bullying First Minster.

If a contrary opinion is posted, voiced or tweeted
My thugs make sure that messenger and message are deleted.
If any crazy English folk should dare to cross my borders
They are shot by the police, who love to carry out my orders.
My rules for taking exercise are also very minimal:
To leave your house twice in one day is literally criminal.
To drive five miles from home is quite the maximum permitted you,
And go back the same way, or to the cells I’ll have committed you.

My toadies queue to get to lick my eminent posterior,
My Anglophobic fury to Plaid Cymru’s is superior:
In short, all my activities are so extremely sinister,
I am the very model of a bullying First Minster.

Now I am sure I’ve crushed all joy, all freedom and all happiness,
Now I’ve turned ‘Land of My Fathers’ into chanting for the NHS,
Now none dare drive to take a walk on mountains or on beaches,
And all the schools are closed to make quite sure that no one teaches,
And all the population bends in grovelling obedience,
And I have cracked down hard on every slightest sign of deviance.
Your houses can be ransacked by the police without a warrant,
And prohibitions flow in an inexorable torrent.

No corner of your lives can be immune from my intrusion,
If ever you thought otherwise it was a mere delusion.
In short, you’ll find the outcome can be best described as sinister
When you elect a psychopath and call him your First Minister.

18419 ▶▶ Edna, replying to annie, 1, #483 of 681 🔗


18446 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #484 of 681 🔗


18470 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to annie, #485 of 681 🔗

Excellent Annie

18525 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to annie, #486 of 681 🔗

Excellent! Thank you

18431 ▶▶ Mark, replying to ambwozere, 8, #488 of 681 🔗

Appears so. And they desperately, desperately want to force everyone else to live in their nightmare as well.

18435 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Mark, 3, #489 of 681 🔗

Just makes me angry that they’re not prepared to even consider a different viewpoint.

18437 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to ambwozere, 3, #490 of 681 🔗

You’re right to be angry.

18447 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ambwozere, 5, #491 of 681 🔗

Unfortunately, some are very happy in their smug little bubbles.

18430 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #492 of 681 🔗

Nicola threatening to make some restrictions law up here in Scotland if some people keep breaking the rules.

I’m calling her bluff on this one.

18436 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #493 of 681 🔗

She has lost the plot. It’s clear to everyone else that any new restrictions will be ignored. The Chief Constable should be teller her that his officers will not be party to her ambitions for a Police State.

18477 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #494 of 681 🔗

LOL.. the Scottish police have a well documented history of being power-hungry muppets. And corruption… they know how to do corruption. And incompetence. And leaving people for 72 hours in car crashes to die.

18488 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #495 of 681 🔗

She’s also looking to get Scotland permission to borrow more money to keep the furlough going for longer than England. She’s lost the fucking plot.

18438 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 5, #496 of 681 🔗

Sorry it’s the Star which is obviously a bit ooh err about the sex, but this is troubling in that it clamps down on what people do in PRIVATE spaces, from today two or more people gathering in private is against the law, which is extremely worrying. And aside from Lord Sumption, where the hell are the legal eagles?

18441 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to BecJT, 2, #497 of 681 🔗

I always knew we were a load of wankers, but now it is to be enshrined in law?

18445 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Edgar Friendly, 8, #498 of 681 🔗

Haha! What troubles me is the unprecedented interference in people’s private lives and homes, I mean if you wanted to ensure no political organising, there you go, we’re literally going to have to start an underground resistance.

18442 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to BecJT, 12, #499 of 681 🔗

Is dogging going to be ok? It is meeting in public rather than private. I agree though, extremely worrying and conveniently after Ferguson’s actions.

On another note, thinking of putting this warning sign up in my business:

18443 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 21, #500 of 681 🔗

It’s pretty depressing that this kind of poisonous, fatuous nonsense is enacted under a supposedly “Conservative” government. It’s as though they are deliberately trolling us, to see how far they can push us.

It’s the final conformation that we are no longer in practice a country where “what is not explicitly forbidden is permitted”, but one where “what is not explicitly permitted is forbidden”.

Can we have no more lame defending of any of these Guilty Men against anything, for pathetic, partisan reasons? If the opportunity arises, nail the bastards, for any cause fair or unfair. Each and very one of them.

Never forget. Never forgive.

18510 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 2, #501 of 681 🔗

If I may quote Dylan (Tangled up in Blue) :-

And everyone of them words rang true
And glowed like burnin’ coal.

They are, indeed, truly unforgivable, and, sadly, unforgettable.

18444 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, 4, #502 of 681 🔗

Is this for real?! If so, it will be a bonanza for curtain-twitchers and a nightmare of paperwork for the poice.

18465 ▶▶ Edna, replying to BecJT, #503 of 681 🔗

It is true, here’s a link the the Statutory Instrument Amendment:
It’s under Paragraph 7

18546 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Edna, 2, #504 of 681 🔗

So depressing, sad and worrying in equal measures. I suggest forming FUCKS – Fornicate Under Command of Knowledgeable Sceptics

18683 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edna, 1, #505 of 681 🔗

Thanks Edna. So much for easing the lockdown!

18456 BlackWhiteAndEveryoneElsesLibertiesMatter, #506 of 681 🔗

Quite like the description of lockdown zealots as bed-wetters, but I agree that ” the left” aren’t responsible. There are foul authoritarian tendencies on left and right, and that is what got us in to the lockdown mess. Regrettably this paternalistic authoritarianism is all too common in politics, there are very few if any people in power with an understanding of the importance of individual liberties.

18459 Jezebel, #508 of 681 🔗

This fiasco is Anarcho-Tyranny in action, plain as day.

18467 Barney McGrew, 11, #509 of 681 🔗

So a question that would have been in the realms of conspiracy theory, or the preserve of those far right, antisemitic ‘sceptics’ (as the Guardian characterises us) is now mainstream. Was Covid around much earlier than conventionally thought?


It seems the WHO are now interested in this.

Of course, this leads into dangerous territory such as the possibility that the disease is less dangerous and more widespread than thought. The Guardian deals with this, though. First, it illustrates the idea by highlighting a potential Covid death of a hitherto healthy-ish person (we presume – the picture is from 2015). So it is having its cake and eating it. And then it asks:

“But if there were cases in the UK earlier than previously thought, then why did the virus only start to escalate when it did?”

This is deliberately ambiguously worded. But the answers should be:

  1. Confirmed cases could only be confirmed once testing had started
  2. Covid deaths increased once the way of recording deaths had been changed
  3. Real deaths increased once the government began its policy of protecting the NHS by emptying hospitals and discharging infectious, vulnerable patients out into the community and care homes.

And if we are open to these explanations, it should mean we are also open to the idea that the population at large has been exposed and has built up some resistance to the virus, and that in general it is not very dangerous.

18473 JVS, replying to JVS, 10, #510 of 681 🔗

Great article by former policeman now working in sport and health


18478 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to JVS, 2, #511 of 681 🔗

Very good read and off the back of that in the comments, I particularly enjoyed this also:


18752 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, #512 of 681 🔗

Very good. I shall be adding ‘Go blow a goat !’ to my portfolio of snappy comebacks.

18487 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to JVS, #513 of 681 🔗

Excellent article!

18475 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 15, #514 of 681 🔗

Just when I thought the depravity of mankind could plumb no lower depths, I see on the front of the Torygiraffe that people are queuing like complete imbeciles to go in Ikea.

Like there’s some kind of 3 month backlog on buying lamps that have odd-sized fittings, and meatballs.

18502 ▶▶ IanE, replying to AidanR, #515 of 681 🔗

Yes, it is debatable which will disintegrate first, the furniture bought by queuers (is that a word, I wonder?) or the Lockdown!

{Actually, no real question there – obviously the furniture!}

18568 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to IanE, #516 of 681 🔗

IKEA I would think.

18511 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AidanR, 3, #517 of 681 🔗

I think people are desperate after being cooped up for 2 months but no way will I queue to get in anywhere.

Unless the government either reduces anti-social distancing to 1 metre or abolish it altogether.

18931 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to AidanR, #518 of 681 🔗

Interesting… my local IKEA here in Uppsala (Sweden) briefly introduced queuing and social distancing marshals the other week, but they seem to have already abandoned the idea. Footfall has decreased so there is no need for either measure. I rather suspect they got negative feedback, since no other shop here has introduced either measure…

18479 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 15, #519 of 681 🔗

I, absolutely, 100% agree.

I’ve just popped out into town to pick up a new curtain pole (don’t ask), walking the park I noticed a massive banner explaining the do’s and don’ts of visiting the park. Observe social distancing at all times, use hand sanitiser if you’ve touched anything etc etc.

I then had to queue at Wilco’s, the sign says, among other things, ‘a member of staff will inform you when it is safe to enter’.

Signs drawing attention to the fact that Wilkinson’s have my safely as their main priority. Lot’s of seemingly anxious people (I’m quite good as spotting the cues, 20 years as a peadiatric nurse)

I needed some help in terms of the product I wanted, no staff on the shop floor… The member of staff ‘assessing’ the ‘risk’ to my safety at the door was actually the manager!?!? I was going to comment on the irony of him assessing the risk to my health and me advising him how to do his job, I couldn’t be bothered 🙁

To cut a long story short, I got what I needed and walked home.

Walking past the park again, I reflected that if my aim was to damage a communities immune system, through decreased exposure to pathogens and increased anxiety, this is exactly how I would do it.

Or is it just me?

18481 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #520 of 681 🔗

oops, that should have been in response to RDawg’s recent post about “public health and safety”

18585 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #521 of 681 🔗

You’re absolutely right,it has been a perfect way to terrorise susceptible members of the population and completely destroy any community cohesion that was still remaining in this country,I think down the line many diseases that had been rendered pretty harmless will be making a return due to the population’s reduced immunities.
Don’t get me started about Wilko’s !,I used to actually like that shop but I won’t go anymore due to the nonsense they have in place.it’s a big shop but they only let a maximum of seven customers in at a time !.

18484 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #522 of 681 🔗

Our trip to Tescos was less irritating today. We usually shop on Tuesdays and the other shoppers seemed much more relaxed and only spotted one mask wearer. So Mondays looks favourite from now on!

18499 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #523 of 681 🔗

I had the reverse experience yesterday. More officiousness, following an earlier visit that had seemed more relaxed. Oh well, one step forward …..

18541 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to IanE, 6, #524 of 681 🔗

Likewise. Mask wearing had increased exponentially (not really but that word seems to save people) but they had gone from 6 on Sunday to 9 today. Security/permission guard also was fully ready for bio hazard experiments in mask, face shield and gloves. Looked like we were going into a lab rather than a supermarket. Again, mostly younger people masking up.

18542 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #525 of 681 🔗

*scare not save

18513 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, #526 of 681 🔗

Mornings seem to be better as I do see less of the masked zombies. Today when I went to M&S quelle surprise – no one wearing masks and gloves!

18530 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #527 of 681 🔗

We did our weekly Co-op and Morrison’s stint. No door goons at the Kwop and the Morrisons guy, who is nice, and the ‘Social Distance Key Worker’ were more relaxed and just let people wander in. No masks and people merrily walking close to each other in the aisles. One pair of filthy gloves on a woman who unsuccessfully tried to get her husband to pick her up from the door in the car. Hah!

Sadly, the journeys there and back were not as rosy. Within 100 yds of the house a woman we know well crossed the road to avoid us (we did at least have a chat) and a bloke in the middle of nowhere actually stuck his hand out at me to make me walk further away than 6 feet(!) We had a bit of an exchange but he is clearly deranged. Worrying.

There were 2 terrified women on the small bus back and so many taped-off seats that when a 5th woman (we know her) got on she felt obliged to sit near us. When we said how good it was in Morrisons, she was horrified, she doesn’t agree at all and she neurotically hand-sanitised all the way back to our stop. The bus driver doesn’t believe the bollox either, thank goodness.

The pits was when we hailed 2 friends, just arriving back at their house from an anti-socially-distanced walk with their daughter and grandchildren who they have not seen for over 2 months. Ultimate Grauniad readers, quite posh and absolutely petrified, they shrank away from us when we were 10 feet away. They cannot understand our attitude at all, they think we’re all still in danger A 3rd friend hove into view, wearing a mask and large washing-up gloves; it was not a piss-take.

Despite this being a known low-risk area with no reported local cases for weeks, people simply cannot take it on that they are at miniscule risk. So, there’s a long way to go, not least for all those millions of people who simply will never again believe they are ‘safe’ and who will badly need (and not be able to get) therapy in order to take part in society.

18571 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #528 of 681 🔗

It’s a bit like that where I am,the East Midlands,one day everybody seems pretty normal then the next day you would think the Black Death was back !.This town is also a very low risk area for the virus and there have been virtually no cases at all,our daughter works at the local hospital so I get a truer picture than from the media,but there are a lot of very scared people about and it is impossible to reason with them,I know several that have not been further than the end of their street since early March and have absolutely no intention of going out into the wider world for a long time yet.
I agree about Morrisons,they are the only supermarket here that is still almost normal,all the others have gone completely barmy.

18486 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 12, #529 of 681 🔗

Just received confirmation that the government has published this petition: “End COVID-19 social distancing”


18489 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to kh1485, 4, #530 of 681 🔗

I’m signatory number 20, can we push the numbers up please. Go go go

18490 ▶▶▶ Geraint, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 2, #531 of 681 🔗

Have signed – yes, fill her up!

18492 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 3, #532 of 681 🔗


18491 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to kh1485, 2, #533 of 681 🔗

Yes saw that, just need more people to sign it.

18494 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to kh1485, 2, #534 of 681 🔗

Done, with pleasure

18495 ▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 2, #535 of 681 🔗

Done. Good luck!

18497 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 2, #536 of 681 🔗

Me plus wife: not that there is any chance it will change anything of course!

18514 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 2, #537 of 681 🔗


18526 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to kh1485, 2, #538 of 681 🔗


18532 ▶▶ Robert West, replying to kh1485, #539 of 681 🔗


18544 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to kh1485, 2, #540 of 681 🔗


18556 ▶▶ Dinger, replying to kh1485, 2, #541 of 681 🔗


18687 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 1, #542 of 681 🔗

Signed. Thanks for posting!

18500 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #543 of 681 🔗

First day back for some

18501 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tom Blackburn, 19, #544 of 681 🔗

Truly vile.

18503 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #545 of 681 🔗

What’s she doing to that child? 🤨

18506 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #546 of 681 🔗


18528 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to grammarschoolman, 7, #547 of 681 🔗

🤣 although it’s not funny.

What is sort of amusing is the expectation that a skin temperature is going to tell you anything other than the temperature of the skin, certainly not whether a pyrexia is present, incompetent fools.

That child could have rip-roaring infection and the school would let him attend. 🤣

18564 ▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #548 of 681 🔗

a doctor writes… ” The no contact infrared thermometers are actually accurate for body temperature ” .

18598 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #549 of 681 🔗

In all cases? With no training? In all circumstances? Is the doctor employed by the manufacturer?

18656 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #550 of 681 🔗

Was is Dr Shipman, Dr Mengler?

Joking a aside, many years ago I was past a RTA involving a pedestrian. I stopped and saw that it was a child, as I was, at the time, leading the local district general hospital peadiatric HDU and it wouldn’t been churlish to not get in involved.

I introduced myself to the person who seemed to be in charge, ‘I’m a doctor!’, he said. “Of what and where?’ was my response. In a quite voice, ‘I’m a psychiatrist’. After a quick primary survey of the child and knowing that the ambulance was on it’s way, he was possibly more able to deal with the needs of the child and the mother.

Nothing is as it seems and first blush and nothing is black and white.

18522 ▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #551 of 681 🔗

It’s one of those no contact temperature takers

18523 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to Sceptique, #552 of 681 🔗

Looks like a gun and goes ‘pop’

18531 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Sceptique, 2, #553 of 681 🔗

I know, completely useless and pointless.

If you were serious, a tympanic thermometer is more accurate.

18673 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #554 of 681 🔗

its a captive bolt gun (as used on livestock) .. more chance of a child dying from that than from covid!!!

18504 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #555 of 681 🔗

Heavens, I think that would have scarred me for life!

18554 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to IanE, 4, #556 of 681 🔗

Luxury! Matron used to note our bowel movements in her book every morning. “Yes Matron”, “Yes Matron”, “Not yet Matron” (strangled cry from WC stall) … Not quite recovered after 59 years.

18676 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #557 of 681 🔗

I have obviously lived a sheltered life!

18517 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #558 of 681 🔗

Please please tell me this isn’t real.

18521 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #559 of 681 🔗

Bloody madness.

18533 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #560 of 681 🔗

How can they do this to little children? How? HOW??

18536 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 8, #561 of 681 🔗

The head teachers all have to have the ‘injection’ otherwise they would not be in the position they hold i.e. they follow the rules without question and they will simply not be able to see what they’re doing to the children. It is truly chilling but I have seen this attitude for myself before I got out of the ‘profession’.

Our daughter and our next-door neighbour are both keeping their children out of school because they don’t want their heads to be messed with for life. Our village school looks like the gulag.

18537 ▶▶ Tony Rattray, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #562 of 681 🔗

A rather bright pupil says to teaching assistant “can I also have a spray for cars as statistically speaking this is a far more deadly killer for me”.

18547 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #563 of 681 🔗

Presumably these are the same types who will not help a child in distress after they have had a toileting accident. Truly shameful.

18589 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to kh1485, 5, #564 of 681 🔗

Fortunately our preschool do allow a dedicated contact person to assist with a toileting accident, full PPE must be worn!
Son was a bit confused by the new procedures, and the lack of cars, soft toys, sand etc…. and spent a lot of the time sitting in a corner in his own world. Thank God he’s back though. Hope this rules wear off by September.

18605 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to James007, 3, #565 of 681 🔗

How wretched. It just strips everything of basic humanity, in my opinion. I have been really heartened though in my shop that people with children haven’t been fearful of letting them engage with us even though we are not togged up to the gunwales in protective gear.

18558 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #566 of 681 🔗

Appalling,looks like a screenshot from some sci-fi horror film,these poor little souls are going to be deeply psychologically damaged by this crap,I wonder how well calibrated these thermometers are ?,my dad has one he is quite fond of but if you believe some of the readings it often gives he shouldn’t actually be here !.

18567 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #567 of 681 🔗


18570 ▶▶ Adele Bull, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #568 of 681 🔗

Fake news! Only PPE and temp taking if undertaking first aid. Other than the two metre rule we are back to as normal as we can be. We don’t like it but it’s what we have to do.

18586 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Adele Bull, 1, #569 of 681 🔗

Can you appraise us of the general measures your school is taking?
I’m very interested to see if the meeja are hyping up the sorts of ‘regimes’ that most schools will be following.

18658 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Adele Bull, #570 of 681 🔗

Good spot Adele Bull 👍🏻

18765 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Adele Bull, #571 of 681 🔗

Regular vocal opposition from loads of teachers would not be a bad thing, Adele.

18926 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tom Blackburn, #572 of 681 🔗

This reminds me of a picture I saw last week (apparently genuine) of a priest ‘baptising’ a child from a distance using a water pistol! Totally crazy…

18507 kh1485, 2, #573 of 681 🔗

There’s always Johnny Smugface to make us all feel better:


18512 grammarschoolman, replying to grammarschoolman, 1, #574 of 681 🔗

Rosie Duffield and Neil Ferguson who broke lockdown rules to have sex’

A lovelier couple you could never hope to meet.

18515 ▶▶ IanE, replying to grammarschoolman, 1, #575 of 681 🔗

If I may steal from Jerome K. Jerome with his abbreviated Romeo and Juliet (But equally applicable here) ;

Lass and lad, loved like mad.
Silly muddle, very sad!

18584 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to grammarschoolman, 1, #576 of 681 🔗

Funnily enough, a few weeks ago when you were only allowed exercise once a day, I was taking the dogs out for a walk and there was a couple having sex in the woods! It wasn’t only me that spotted them either, there was loads commenting on it on the Facebook page for the town.

As it just seems to be public figures indulging in these activities, then it could well have been my local MP participating in bit of lockdown fun!

18520 daveyp, replying to daveyp, 11, #577 of 681 🔗

Nicola Sturgeon response to increased vehicle use over the weekend shows that absolute power does indeed corrupt:

“Let me be very blunt here – it’s very hard to see how all of that could have been caused by local residents or by people travelling a reasonable distance to meet loved ones,” Ms Sturgeon said.

She added: “It’s worth being clear, in fact I have a duty to be clear with you, that if there is continued evidence of even a minority not abiding by these guidelines and travelling unnecessarily, if people meet up in larger groups or if they’re making journeys which risk spreading this virus, we will have to put these restrictions on group size and travel distance into law.

18631 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, 1, #578 of 681 🔗

Poor woman, she sounds as though she is close to a breakdown.

18664 ▶▶ Sheltielass, replying to daveyp, 2, #579 of 681 🔗

Honestly I felt like I was back at school again. I’m surprised she didn’t cone out with a big red pen and write must try harder.

18695 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to daveyp, #580 of 681 🔗

Good grief!!!

18524 Mark, replying to Mark, 10, #581 of 681 🔗

Another Peter Hitchens interview . Good, as always. Same stuff, usual clarity and strength of exposition.

Found this a good point:

42:30 “I don’t know where the courts have been. I know that Simon Dolan has been trying for some time to get the courts to look at it, but it’s taken him an awful lot of time to get not anywhere very far. When you compare that with what happened with Gina Miller and with the other great Supreme Court case over the proroguing of Parliament it’s an interesting contrast, where you could see that the Supreme Court in that case was itching to get involved. Now the courts seem to me to have stayed out.”

18535 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 5, #582 of 681 🔗

Have you seen Triggernometry’s latest video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiefgMN9S-M

Yup. This interview is being shadowbanned.

I noticed it yesterday – because I watched half of it on the premier livestream, ducked out, then tried to find it again on my subs feed. Nowhere to be found.

I wonder why……

18540 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 2, #583 of 681 🔗

I have now – nice catch! They did speculate in the video as to whether i would be suppressed.

Really is shameless these days.

Now I’m enjoying their compilation of the old buffer’s humour – takes me back.

18543 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, #584 of 681 🔗

Just realised that’s not theirs – just a link that was pushed at me when I watched their video….

18574 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 1, #585 of 681 🔗

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Triggernometry before (followed a link to the Hitchens interview from Peter’s blog), but now I’m tempted by their preview of their David Starkey interview, which seems quite relevant in the context of the evil BLM nonsense discussed on today’s Sceptics:

David Starkey: The Self-Hatred of the English Intellectual

18583 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 4, #586 of 681 🔗

They have some great guests, you’ll like their channel.
Also they let people SPEAK!

18599 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 1, #587 of 681 🔗

Yes, good interviewers, it appears.

18919 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 1, #588 of 681 🔗

I like their last question to each interviewee, ‘What’s the one thing we (ie society) are not talking about, that we should be talking about?’

18630 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #589 of 681 🔗

I guess the esteemed judges et al don’t fancy being in the nwo crosshairs.

18534 annie, replying to annie, 11, #590 of 681 🔗

Just glanced at the Church Times.
Shouldn’t have.
They are saying children should not go back to school, because the situation is analogous to that in care homes.
Jesus wept. That’s a statement, not an oath.

18538 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 3, #591 of 681 🔗

As we said to our Minister, who to be fair had SC2 badly but is now fine, we find it hard to understand the attitude of the churches, given the attitude of the founder of the faith to the authorities. I agree it is very dispiriting, Annie but at least we LS have some way to share our experiences and views with each other! Thanks again, Toby. If this is a safety valve, it’s a bloody good ‘un!

18577 ▶▶ James007, replying to annie, 3, #592 of 681 🔗

The Church (the institution I mean) isn’t exactly rushing to reassure frighted parishioners. There are a number of contemporary phrases I find a little depressing. One is “doing church differently”, which in the current context means “pretending that we have not closed”.
I mean no disrespect to all the people working really hard to keep things going, but the buildings are shut, meetings are banned, vicars are not meeting parishioners, schools are only just opening. Hasn’t church always been a communion of believers? For me church currently consists of sitting on my own, watching a pre-recorded video. I may be a minority, but the various video conferencing and social media do not really work for me. They can supliment social contact, but not replace it.
I dont blame any church workers, but it would be nice if the senior clergy were asking whether all this was proportionate, and worked to end it asap.

18917 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to James007, #593 of 681 🔗

Hope Christian Concern’s legal case succeeds!

18591 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to annie, 5, #594 of 681 🔗

The institutional church should be ashamed. Its bishops, e.g. Nick Baines, can spout off about Cummings and the people being lied to and taken for mugs yet stay silent about the lying and mug taking & loss of life and livelihoods because of being in lockdown. BTW I’m saying all this as a Christian. The silence of the church in all this is not good.

18609 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Moomin, 1, #595 of 681 🔗

Agree Kevin,
Felt sad to get an email the other day to say that someone had died and I wasnt allowed to attend their funeral, but “be with the family in prayer”. An equivocation on the word “with” doesnt really help.

18629 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #596 of 681 🔗

Latest news, SAGE committee members advise on the doctrine of the Trinity. .. .

18634 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 3, #597 of 681 🔗

You mean they can count up to three?

18651 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to annie, 1, #598 of 681 🔗

Three? Imperial College would forecast 3000

18674 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to James007, #599 of 681 🔗

Hmm, I wonder if they counted the loaves and fishes!?

18539 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #600 of 681 🔗

How can they publish this drivel? No basis on fact, no sources and pure scaremongering. Infection rate has also never been exponential:


I suggest Mr O’Grady stays locked up although that too may bring about his premature demise.

18555 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sarigan, 4, #601 of 681 🔗

The article ought to have stopped at ‘I’m no epidemiologist’!

18746 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #602 of 681 🔗

Definitely. It’s full of subjunctives and probablys. This isn’t journalism. Does he get paid for producing this garbage?

18646 ▶▶ A13, replying to Sarigan, 1, #603 of 681 🔗
18801 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sarigan, 1, #604 of 681 🔗

I read it and didn’t see the point in it. Just somebody saying they think there will be a second wave. I see plenty of these in the comments sections every day.

“I’m scared, so subliminally I’m trying to say you should be scared too”. That’s basically what he was trying to say by writing it.

18557 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, 18, #605 of 681 🔗

My petition to end social distancing has finally been approved and is now live at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/320079

My petition calls for an end to all social distancing measures, so goes much further than the petition to end the lockdown.

Please everybody sign this!

18561 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Back To Normal, 2, #606 of 681 🔗

Kh posted about it here about an hour ago – a few have signed it already.

18566 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Back To Normal, 2, #607 of 681 🔗


18573 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #608 of 681 🔗


18580 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #609 of 681 🔗

I’ve signed it and forwarded it to a friend. Thanks for doing this. Someone I know was guilt tripped by the social distancing police recently and I was very cross.

18593 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #610 of 681 🔗


18622 ▶▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to ambwozere, 1, #611 of 681 🔗

Only 4 signed in Scotland so far.

18620 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #612 of 681 🔗

Signed, and sent to everyone I know with half a brain. Please also forward it, folks.

18750 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #613 of 681 🔗

Well done. I’ve signed it, I’ll promote it. Thanks!

18562 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #614 of 681 🔗


Before Boris wages war on our eating habits he should take a look in the mirror and lead by example.

18623 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #615 of 681 🔗

When he gets down to 11-12 stone, I might listen to a word he says. Possibly. If I’ve been drinking.

18670 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #616 of 681 🔗

Yes, Carrie must get rather squashed at times!

18998 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #617 of 681 🔗

This is worrying. Bill Gates is one of the plant-based diet pushers – mega bucks to be made from nutritionally deficient frankenfoods. Don’t be surprised if a meat tax is next on the agenda.

18563 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 28, #618 of 681 🔗

Someone just phoned into the Eddie Mair show on LBC (16:40, Monday) to explain that their child had not gone back to school as they want their child to go back to ordinary school not this socially distanced school.

Eddie was at a loss to respond.

Hip hip hurrah.

Was it anyone on here, I do hope so.

18576 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Dave #KBF, 12, #619 of 681 🔗

Although my child has not gone back yet, I am objecting to the return to school on this basis. I have sent a letter to the school regarding what risk assessments for the children’s mental health and what support is in place for children now that they are working in an abnormal (or new normal) environment.

18572 Schadenfreude, #620 of 681 🔗

Dominic Cummings should be lynched (figuratively) because it is now clear that SAGE never recommended lockdown but Cummings attended their meetings and pushed for it. (See a Bloomberg article from April 29 here ).

I am not a British citizen, but an unelected politician acting so bizarrely and brazenly is very disturbing (although common everywhere, I suppose).

Do you not ask yourselves, who in the heck is this guy and what is he doing?

18575 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 9, #621 of 681 🔗

The more I read about government regulations the more I am convinced they are looking for the public to ignore them. According to The Telegraph: Police in England have been told they cannot go into homes or gardens to check if coronavirus lockdown rules are being breached, according to new guidance.
Officers can tell people to leave someone’s home if they are breaking new lockdown rules – but cannot make them leave.
Gatherings of up to six people can now take place outdoors, for example in open spaces or in private gardens.
But laws which came into force on Monday banned people from staying overnight anywhere other than the place where they are living.

18578 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #622 of 681 🔗

The staying overnight aka ban on sex law is to make policing ‘track and trace’ easier. Not that it’s policeable anyway, but….

If they’re gonna be telling people they have to lock themselves away for 14 days, they have to make sure they can’t go and sleep anywhere else.

18602 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Farinances, 7, #623 of 681 🔗

I think you might be right – it’s always been in the government guidance that people aren’t supposed to meet up in private spaces, so why enshrine it in law now, when things are actually meant to be easing? Give me strength, it makes it feel as if this nightmare will never end and like they’re clamping down rather than easing up.

18608 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Poppy, 5, #624 of 681 🔗

It feels like a more intensive clamping down to me as well,not realistically enforceable though except through people’s fear of the local Stasi snitches ratting on them.

18579 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Hammer Onats, #625 of 681 🔗

Where it says “ laws which came into force on Monday banned people from staying overnight anywhere other than the place where they are living”, is there actually laws or are these rules/guidelines which they would like us to follow?

18594 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to daveyp, #626 of 681 🔗

This appears to be law – a change to the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020:


Whether the basis of these regs themselves can be challenged is another question. They are enacted under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984, and I think their applicability is under question.

18595 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to daveyp, 1, #627 of 681 🔗

From what I’ve read it will be an actual law.
Which is what leads me to believe it’s meant to serve an actual purpose AKA making people more trackable simply by virtue of making them return home at night.

18596 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 6, #628 of 681 🔗

It’s a curfew in all but name, basically

18665 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, 2, #629 of 681 🔗

All but name, and the ability to have even the teensiest chance of being able to enforce it.

18826 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, 2, #630 of 681 🔗

That’s the only way back to sanity. Break the law.
Why they made it actual law rather than guidance is what’s disturbing to me — they really do value this track and trace thing more than I thought they did.

18699 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 2, #631 of 681 🔗


18582 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Hammer Onats, 9, #633 of 681 🔗

I really hope you are right! That they are simply producing the guidelines to try to make the people hiding behind the sofas feel safer, and that they really want us to lead the way and ignore the guidelines. But then the other part of me says, why on earth should we be the ones having to shine the torch for the way forward, and meanwhile suffering the unsocial distancing and all the other nonsense that goes with it? I’ve just had an email from easyJet reassuring me that when they start to fly they will be looking after my safety by insisting both cabin crew and passengers all wear face masks (for 4 hours?!) and that there won’t be any refreshments served on board at all. Oh and even if you’ve paid for a specific seat, they will be reallocating seats to space people apart so that we all feel safer. It’s utter tripe. I’d rather they just “looked after my safety” by ensuring the planes are well serviced and the crew know what they are doing.

18601 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #634 of 681 🔗

We never realised did we ?,all along all of these companies only ever cared about our safety,it wasn’t about extracting as much money from as possible for as little service as possible,it’s so touching.

18604 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Paul, #635 of 681 🔗

Should say ‘ from us ‘,why no edit button ?

19231 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Paul, #636 of 681 🔗

It’s not a forum, which is why there is no edit. Just comments.

18612 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to Hammer Onats, #637 of 681 🔗

If that’s the case why have they been so meticulous with this troubling document?

18627 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hammer Onats, #638 of 681 🔗

Another completely unenforceable piece of rat vomit.

18639 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Hammer Onats, #639 of 681 🔗

According to this ridiculous piece of legislation, you can stay at somebody else’s house if you are providing “Emergency assistance” which is vague and open to interpretation. Stay wherever you want and just make up something that you thought was an emergency if somehow you get asked why.

18607 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #640 of 681 🔗


This is interesting. New Zealand. Small outbreak 1500 cases. Full lockdown 25th March school-closures 23rd March. One of the countries lauded having a perfect lockdown, effective and an outstanding Prime Minister according to MSM. The same curve. The cases go quickly to the top then exponential decline. There is a 7 days incubation time so with this in mind an effect would be around 2nd April but the exponential curve is already going down 21st March.
Worth 5 % BNB drop and expected 10% unemployment and 250000 jobless in the future?
And if second wave do the same thing?

18637 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #641 of 681 🔗

It’s still weird because cross immunity or asymptomatic non-spreaders etc will reduce R0 but in theory growth should still be exponential right at the beginning (just with a lower number getting exponentiated).

I think the reason must be that below a certain R0 it just doesn’t mix through the population fast enough. The lower R0 is the less accurate it is to model the population as homogeneously mixed the way a SIR model does. Basically you run out of friends long before New Zealand is anywhere close to running out of fresh hosts.

18696 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, #642 of 681 🔗

Are they still quarantining visitors? Surely it must have come in that way? They have brought in track and trace so you cannot shop without the app, so they should in theory be able to find the source very quickly…

18825 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to swedenborg, 1, #643 of 681 🔗

New Zealand have a lot to answer for as they’re now looked at as the benchmark for success. Because of them, people think success is measured by how close to zero deaths a country gets.

18610 Nigel Baldwin, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 6, #644 of 681 🔗

Only 106 as of writing this post., There has to be more who come to this site https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/320079

18619 ▶▶ SRagdoll, replying to Nigel Baldwin, 1, #645 of 681 🔗

Have signed and shared on a couple of Facebook groups.

18647 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #646 of 681 🔗

Just signed.

18663 ▶▶ lorraine cleaver, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #647 of 681 🔗

Signed and tweeted.

18618 Mimi, replying to Mimi, 20, #648 of 681 🔗

I am sick and tired of this. Sick, sick, sick. Sick of having all major life decisions taken away from me. Sick of not being able to plan for the future. Sick of being told that if I hate wearing masks, it’s my own fault and I just need to find one that I like. Sick of bullshit and lies and a media that has gone off the rails for reasons that are lost in the mists of time but that have turned into some bizarro tribal nonsense of virtue signalling and disapproval, in the face of a disease that is no worse than the diseases humanity confronts every single year.

Sorry. I just found out that my fallback plan of moving our (paid-for) July holiday in Switzerland to August (no news yet on whether Europe will ever let U.S. citizens back in….) can’t happen because Swiss hotels can’t take new bookings. Because… safety? Whatever? And somehow, despite all my efforts to put a brave face on this, to show flexibility and resilience, well, I am out of energy.

My children want to know how university will work – will there be classes? Housing? I don’t know. We’ve paid thousands of dollars for air fare and tuition for vacations and summer educational programs. That’s all to be postponed. Til when?

One massive element of damage that is being caused by this insane global implosion is going to be complete loss of consumer confidence. I currently have none.

So. Depressing. Ugh.

19111 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mimi, #649 of 681 🔗

So am I Mimi – totally sick of the whole nonsense. I just want my proper old life back – something that’s worth living for. I just cannot understand how people have fallen for all this nonsense, even demanded it! I hate what the world has become, loathe it, detest it. I refuse to take part in it. Thankfully I’m nearer 70 than 60 now, and if this nonsense becomes permanent, new viruses mysteriously hyped up to keep the people in fear, I can see me choosing to catch it and hopefully popping my clogs and dying. This is no way to live. But then I’m sure that would be appreciated by the NWO as it would mean I’m not a drain on the state.

18628 mhcp, 1, #650 of 681 🔗

I’m surprised we haven’t discovered by now that Covid-19 has electrolytes

18641 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 5, #651 of 681 🔗

Upon reading the new Big Bro 2020 Sex Crime Law, I’m struck by all the provisions made for ‘elite athletes’.

They seriously think the unemployed masses won’t riot as long as they can watch the football.

18650 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #652 of 681 🔗

Sorry if I’m being a bit thick, Farinaces – which Sex Crime Law ?

18653 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, 1, #653 of 681 🔗

The new law that forbids you from sleeping in any place that isn’t your place of residence. Name by moi 😉
See downstream for comment with a link

18654 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, 1, #654 of 681 🔗

Ah, thank you.

18655 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Farinances, 2, #655 of 681 🔗

Did that law go through Parliament properly?

18669 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #656 of 681 🔗

It’s a Statutory Instrument. I don’t fully understand them, but from what I’ve read they’re quick, ‘simple’ laws that the government can enact in times of emergency without the SI being scrutinised by Parliament…

18671 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Edna, 4, #657 of 681 🔗

Exactly. Notice how the press don’t seem to have picked it up properly yet either.
Nice way to disguise the curfew.

18679 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Farinances, 3, #658 of 681 🔗

And done the day before Parliament returns. This is very scary. Let’s hope it kicks off tomorrow – can’t see people like David Davis being very happy.

18675 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Edna, 5, #659 of 681 🔗

I think they are not as water-tight as legal statute, so offering the government less protection should there be a challenge. This is hopefully something where we would all benefit from the authority of Lord Sumption. The government is coming very close to being out of control.

18680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Edna, 4, #660 of 681 🔗

The general idea is you have a basic enabling Act that takes a while to go through and gets fully scrutinised, amended if necessary by Parliament, and voted on, and that law specifies areas where the government can make necessary rules and change them quickly and easily by regulations (“statutory instruments”), which are made on the government’s initiative under the authority of the Act in question. For instance, you might pass a law that allows the government draw up regulations to fine people for traffic offences, and have the particular levels of fines for particular offences specified by those regulations, rather than in the Act itself. That way you can change the fines periodically without having to pass a new law or an amendment to the Act every time.

It’s very convenient for the government, in a massively over-governed society like ours.

In this case the authorising Act supposedly is the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984, and the SI is the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020.

One avenue of legal challenge would be that the SI is not actually authorised by the powers given in the Act.

18693 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Edna, #661 of 681 🔗

Does that not mean all hotels, campsites etc are totally screwed?

18983 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edna, #662 of 681 🔗

What Parliament?
We don’t have a functioning Parliament right now!

18913 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #663 of 681 🔗

What’s Parliament?

19112 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Gossamer, #664 of 681 🔗

We used to have one, once.

18662 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, 2, #665 of 681 🔗

Have now read the relevant text.

This is surely certain to get thrown out, if indeed any cases are ever brought, by all that elite athlete bollocks ? Isn’t it ?

One law for good curlers, a different one for everyone else ? Fuck that.

18692 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #666 of 681 🔗

Does that not make Antonia Staats (Ferguson’s girlfriend) prosecutable??

18818 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, #667 of 681 🔗

Sadly not. Unless she does it (it=Neil :P) again after today.

18847 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Farinances, 2, #668 of 681 🔗

When you start making laws that turn the majority of your citizens into likely law breakers you’re asking for trouble.

18907 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #669 of 681 🔗

Are the elite athlete provisions in advance of the Olympics next year…???

18644 Tim Bidie, 4, #670 of 681 🔗

One thing that is coming across loud and clear is that size is a real vulnerability for health institutions.

The countries that have done well, for example Japan and Norway, in protecting their old people have small local care homes.

Many families in Greece, which has also done well, have taken their elderly relatives out of care homes to look after them themselves.

Either the NHS changes radically or it will sink, is sinking, this country, despite, and acknowledging, its many outstanding public servants.

18657 A13, replying to A13, 3, #671 of 681 🔗

Coronavirus ‘no longer clinically exists in Italy’, top doctor says

18681 ▶▶ Nigel Baldwin, replying to A13, 2, #672 of 681 🔗

If this is the case then so much for the second bloody wave they keep on intimidating us with. But now, here, we want overweight people to slim down to combat Covid19 in the autumn. Hmmmm? Same page thinking.

18688 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nigel Baldwin, #673 of 681 🔗

If you follow Amazing Polly on youtube, she has a document that shows a plan for a second virus release… I wondering if that is planned for the autumn and will be termed a ‘second wave’???

18977 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #674 of 681 🔗

Link would be useful, ta.

18976 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A13, #675 of 681 🔗

Good news. Let’s hope it gets trumpeted by the MSM.

18660 paulito, 4, #676 of 681 🔗
18905 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #678 of 681 🔗

I’m in Sweden – numbers falling, slowly but surely. About a week and a half ago our intensive care cases dropped under 400 for several days in a row, giving cause for optimism – today it is 310..
Given that our sixth forms, universities and adult ed can open from 15th June, it seems likely that other rules may also slowly be relaxed, even though there is still talk of a second wave..

19218 BTLnewbie, #679 of 681 🔗

Is the BBC running out of ‘fear porn’ news to report? No. 5 in their ‘most-read’ stories today is:
Coronavirus: The London hospital hit by a ‘tidal wave’ of patients This is a report on the cases coming into Northwick Hospital at the beginning of March (the one that caused Boris to U-turn into lockdown).

19774 John P, #680 of 681 🔗

Sorry if this has already been posted. I’ve just seen that Johnson has put up a graphic telling people that they “should” wear face masks in supermarkets. Just when you thought this shit was beginning to end.

I will not wear one. I have never considered it necessary and I have good science to back that up.


21425 Covid_Skeptic, #681 of 681 🔗

The Locked Prayer

Hail, Lockdown!
Praise be to Science!
Thou hast shown me that thou knowest all things.
Thou art an immutable Truth
to be followed as disciples of old followed the Messiah.

Hail, Lockdown!
Open mine eyes that I may see
As there be many religions upon our Earth,
So may be created many models.
Yet give me the strength
to follow the One Model
And lead me not into the path of Questioning Data.

Hail, Lockdown!
Give us faith to base our decisions on the Model
To bow humbly before our esteemed Professors and Doctors
Who, with Educated Wisdom
Inspired by the Word of Research
Came forth to create the Constructs
and Assumptions
of the Model.

Praise the R-Number
Created by Science
Come to dwell among us
and provide unshakeable foundations for how we live.

Praise the Flattened Curve!
Let it be seen as proof that Lockdown hath been effective,
And look not at the actions of that traitor, Sweden –
Allow not the temptation of Other Ways
to undermine our achievement.

Give us strength not to wander from the path of the Model.
Outdated concepts of a bygone era,
Get thee hence!
Be gone, open debate!
Rid thee from our thoughts
Harass us not with thy doubting
We are mere workers and youth, on whom the country depends
Our worthless opinions
Our musings on unseen consequences
short and long term

Hail, Lockdown!
Praise be to Science!
May its legacy live on in social distancing
And glorious isolation
For ever and ever


147 users made 681 comments today.

190Farinances122, 1, 17, 5, 5, 6, 1, 9, 4, 5, 2, 1, 6, 9, 10, 10, 2, 7, 7, 5, 2, 0, 1, 3, 6, 2, 19, 1, 5, 4, 2, 1, 6, 2, 5, 1, 4, 0
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32Sarigan3, 12, 2, 2, 6, 0, 7
31Barney McGrew20, 11
30sunchap22, 8
29Moomin156, 2, 5, 1
28Dave #KBF28
27Suitejb23, 4
26Geraint8, 3, 13, 2
26South Coast Worker4, 3, 7, 12
26Tyneside Tigress2, 2, 9, 1, 4, 3, 5
25Nigel Baldwin6, 2, 0, 4, 0, 4, 1, 0, 6, 2
24Paul Seale107, 7
24daveyp1, 11, 12, 0, 0
22MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG4, 1, 6, 8, 3
21coalencanth126, 15
21Tony Rattray14, 7
21Awkward Git30, 3, 8, 3, 3, 1
20Carrie3, 3, 7, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1
18Back To Normal18
18Nic7, 11
18Peter Thompson6, 10, 2
18Mark H1, 3, 5, 1, 8
15Judith Day15
15Adele Bull6, 4, 5
15Old fred10, 4, 1, 0
15John P00, 4, 0, 10, 0, 1
14Gossamer11, 1, 0, 0, 2
14Paul1, 3, 4, 5, 1, 0
14JohnB1, 0, 4, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 2, 2, 0, 0, 1, 2
13mark baker13
13Ricky R13
13Ethelred the Unready12, 1
13guy1538, 4, 1, 0, 0
12Old Bill12
12Tim Bidie48
12grammarschoolman4, 4, 3, 1
12Edna8, 1, 0, 0, 3
11Morris_Day11, 0
11TJN5, 3, 3
10Tom Blackburn5, 5
10James0075, 3, 1, 1
9AN other lockdown sceptic9
9DressageRider5, 4
9Sally7, 2, 0
7DJ Dod2, 5
7StevieH2, 5
7Aremen5, 2, 0
6Kristian Short6
6Cecil B0, 6
6crimsonpirate4, 2
6RS @ home5, 1
6Tenchy2, 4
6Marion2, 1, 3
4Nigel Sherratt4
4Joseph Collins13
3Digital Nomad3
3Locked down and out3
3Anon0, 3
3SweetBabyCheeses0, 3
3Jonathan Castro0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2
2Hoppy Uniatz2
2Kath Andrews2
2Martin Spencer2
2Sue D2
2Michel1, 1
1Bill h1
1Paul B1
1bluefreddy1, 0
1smileymiley0, 1
1Chris John0, 1, 0
0lorraine cleaver0
0Major Bonkers0
0Mark Wayne0
0Robert West0
0BlackWhiteAndEveryoneElsesLibertiesMatter00, 0
-280GrantM-30, -28, -18, -36, -15, -50, -22, -19, -20, -17, -25