Last updated2020-06-13T11:17:37



27501 annie, replying to annie, 17, #1 of 586 🔗

Howdy, friends, happy Saturday!
I’m looking for an artist or cartoonist. I’m totally useless at drawing and I want a picture of the Welsh dragon bound, gagged and rolled ignominiously on its back, which accurately represents the current situation in Gulag Wales. Can anybody oblige? Am willing to pay whatever is the going rate for humiliated dragons.

27534 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to annie, -1, #2 of 586 🔗

Try fiver.com

27621 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sceptique, -1, #3 of 586 🔗

I will, thank you.

27604 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 2, #4 of 586 🔗

You’re right, it is a Gulag. You can tell socialists are in charge. Fortunately I can walk across the border from where I live, and frequently do so.

27620 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, #5 of 586 🔗

Wish I could!

27625 ▶▶ Shep, replying to annie, -1, #6 of 586 🔗

peter soakell fine art murals, google it for contact details)

27631 ▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Shep, -1, #7 of 586 🔗

07598 198657 text

27679 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Shep, -1, #8 of 586 🔗

Many thanks, sounds promising!

27685 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to annie, 8, #9 of 586 🔗

I’ve been banned from visiting my offspring since March. If it wasnt for skype I wouldnt see him at all. He lives in South Wales, having started a new job recently. I’m in England. What is the Severn now, the new Berlin Wall?

27690 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #10 of 586 🔗

More or less. But the horrible, anglophobic Cymruzombies like it this way. Came across a Twitter thread the other day called #Walesisclosed. Nearly gave me apoplexy.
Wish Edward I would rise again.

27692 ▶▶ ianric, replying to annie, 3, #11 of 586 🔗

There was an article in the Daily Post about how hotels are begging to open this summer so that they can still have some summer trade but it seems the stupid ministers at the Welsh Assembly are refusing to listen.

27732 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to ianric, 1, #12 of 586 🔗

Major Welsh tourist attractions warned the same imbeciles that they were on the point of collapse. They received no reply.

27507 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 35, #13 of 586 🔗

That Guardian graph is pretty eye-watering. And yet I actually think it still won’t shock the masses awake, because it just reinforces the incorrect view that the economy is ‘just a load of graphs’, that it’s abstract, that it won’t actually affect people’s standard of living, their health, their personal finances, the prices of their food and bills, how easy it will be for them to get a job.

They’re in for a rude awakening.

27533 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Poppy, 17, #14 of 586 🔗

Talking about the price of food, interesting that since the lockdown supermarkets have vastly reduced the amount of BOGOFs type offers, even after the shelves have been fully restocked.

May seem like a little thing but I have noticed this affects the overall cost of shopping.

Inflation in plain sight.

Few pounds here and there, may not seem a lot, but over time it does build up.

27557 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Dave #KBF, 11, #15 of 586 🔗

Yes – and I haven’t seen any 25% off offers for 6-or-more wine bottles. Not that I am a great drinker of course, but,you know what they say, every litre helps!

27564 ▶▶▶ Marion, replying to Dave #KBF, 14, #16 of 586 🔗

Shop in Aldi or Lidl instead. They have never done three for two or whatever it is but simply keep their prices low, (cream 89p in Aldi, around £1.10 in Tesco, even more in the outrageously expensive Co Op.) I might sound like a I work for them – I don’t! but they really are much better value and their products match the rest of the supermarkets in quality, and sometimes surpass them, especially fresh meat.

27727 ▶▶▶▶ AllieT, replying to Marion, #17 of 586 🔗

Totally agree!

27580 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #18 of 586 🔗

Yeah, our grocery bill has gone up.

27959 ▶▶▶▶ Annabel Andrew, replying to Moomin, 2, #19 of 586 🔗

To be fair- if you used to have sandwiches or coffees or whatever, out of your house, you may not add that to your weekly grocery bill- i think you may well spend less but not realise it.

27636 ▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #20 of 586 🔗

It’s inflation that won’t get picked up by RPI, CPI or any other official way of measuring it.

27772 ▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Dave #KBF, #21 of 586 🔗

No need to entice the punters when all they can buy is food.

And yes, food is booming because of demand. But wait til reduced supply really pushes things up…

27961 ▶▶▶▶ Annabel Andrew, replying to Kristian Short, 1, #22 of 586 🔗

It won’t ,don’t worry! There is no food shortage.

27958 ▶▶▶ Annabel Andrew, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #23 of 586 🔗

Being in the manufacturing industry, the reason there are no deals is because at the beginning of lock down, demand was higher than ever and there was no need to entice shoppers to multi-buy.

27548 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Poppy, 10, #24 of 586 🔗

The economy isn’t numbers. It is people doing things for other people.

27561 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #25 of 586 🔗

But try telling that to most Lefties!

27565 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to IanE, 2, #26 of 586 🔗

I am left-wing.

27586 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #27 of 586 🔗

I agree, and fewer people are doing fewer things for others because businesses were forced to close over lockdown and 11 million people are now effectively being paid by the government, rather than paid by ‘other people’.

27596 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Poppy, 3, #28 of 586 🔗

The government doesn’t have any “money” – money is simply a token representing the fact that the bearer has done something for someone else and is thereby entitled to exchange the token for someone to do something for them.

27606 ▶▶▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #29 of 586 🔗

Also known as money

27610 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #30 of 586 🔗

Wow, just wow

27623 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #31 of 586 🔗

Actually it’s our money, which they take from us by force and squander.

27669 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 3, #32 of 586 🔗

Yes. Thousands of pounds spent defacing our high streets with ugly distancing graffiti.

27628 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Hayes, #33 of 586 🔗

The Government controls, as far as it can, the production of money. Who else controls it? And it doesn’t necessarily denote you’ve done something for someone else. Welfare payments are not made in recognition of something you’ve done. Neither is pocket money or an inheritance or a charitable donation.

Money is essentially a voucher that can be used to claim a share of future production or economic activity e.g. services. The voucher may come into your hands by many routes.

27639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to OKUK, 1, #34 of 586 🔗

Pretty sure it’s central banks that control the production of money.

27643 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark H, #35 of 586 🔗

You don’t think central banks are part of government? Whatever it might say on the tin, they are.

27781 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to OKUK, 1, #36 of 586 🔗

You have it backwards – but are otherwise spot on.

27943 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to OKUK, 1, #37 of 586 🔗

“Who else controls it [money]?”

Actually the majority of the money in circulation has been created by private finance capitalists. They create it out of nothing.

27671 ▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Poppy, 1, #38 of 586 🔗

Poppy, you seem like a switched on girl, take a look at the ‘capatalists at work’ blog for a more rounded view;- I’m totally ignorant of finance and still learning and I am 50)

28080 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Shep, #39 of 586 🔗

Research “fractional reserve banking”, that will be an eye opener as it is the banking and money system w use now that we do not follow the gold standard.

27622 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Hayes, #40 of 586 🔗

That’s a bit like saying traffic congestion isn’t about numbers, it’s about people getting from A to B.

27629 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Poppy, #41 of 586 🔗

Rampant stagflation.

27670 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 3, #42 of 586 🔗

Unfortunately you still get a load of people who believe that its “people not profit” and that they’re not going to be affected.

I think the next few months might jolt them out of their zombie induced torpor.

27674 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #43 of 586 🔗

Economics is not that complicated At heart. If it were, most economists couldn’t do it.

I don’t understand why so many people just can’t grasp even the basics. As far as I can tell, they must be being stupid on purpose.

27704 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 2, #44 of 586 🔗

Unfortunately even intelligent people become stupid when it comes to economics and money.

My late mother-in-law, God bless her was very intelligent in her field (Scandinavian women’s literature) but unfortunately had a fervent belief in the existence of the Magic Money Tree and would never listen to the view that such a tree doesn’t exist.

27707 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 5, #45 of 586 🔗

A lot of things are fairly straightforward and can be approached in fairly simplistic terms. “Experts” in the respective fields tend to overcomplicate things in order to justify the need for said experts.

27512 PD, replying to PD, 15, #46 of 586 🔗

More destabilising bile from the Guardian.

i read this on their site today:
The Guardian’s independence means we can set our own agenda and voice our own opinions. Our journalism is free from commercial and political bias – never influenced by billionaire owners or shareholders

Who tops the list of the Guardian’s philanthropic partners?

27520 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to PD, 11, #47 of 586 🔗

It would make you laugh if it didn’t make you weep! The Guardian is one of the worst offenders as it tries to pretend it’s not a corporation. You’d think it was a charity, wouldn’t you?

I have also mentioned several times on this site that the government took out an advertising contract with the press before the lockdown in order to make sure SPI-B’s fear message to ensure compliance hit home and, with a few ‘allowed’ dissenting voices e.g. Hitchens, Daley, Pearson, Jenkins that is exactly what has happened.



27603 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Threepartslogan, 8, #49 of 586 🔗

Thanks, UK Column is consistently doing good work on the politics behind this whole disaster.

27611 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Threepartslogan, 4, #50 of 586 🔗

Excellent article. Hope Simon Dolan sees it.

27723 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #51 of 586 🔗

Can someone send it to him via his Twitter feed or ask Toby to?

27626 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Threepartslogan, 8, #52 of 586 🔗

He describes the process as criminal. I agree.
Roll on, Coronaberg Trials.

27664 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to annie, 3, #53 of 586 🔗

NuremBoJo Trials

27739 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Chris John, 5, #54 of 586 🔗

It isn’t just BoJo, it’s the whole horrible, nauseating, moronic lot of them. We might have to consider trying them in batches, as they did during the French Revolution.

27536 ▶▶▶ Threepartslogan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #55 of 586 🔗

Also this section on the Guardian’s website


All together – Paid for by the UK government

27537 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to PD, 5, #56 of 586 🔗

The Guardian has to change its corporate mantra to reflect current reality – that it USED to be independent, but now is just a mouthpiece for its Saudi owner and the pharmaceutical industry. I’m not surprised to see Bill Gates is a sponsor.

27583 ▶▶ MoH, replying to PD, 10, #57 of 586 🔗

‘Philanthropy’ is a code word for genocide through well crafted sophistry to make it appear as benign.

The Guardian is inciting so much violence and hatred, with no restraint, that its Scott Trust board and key editors should be arrested for their multiple crimes. Fortunately more and more people are seeing it for what it is, so its globalist agenda becomes counter productive.

All this talk of statues when really it should be #theGuardianmustfall

27633 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to PD, 3, #58 of 586 🔗



“Guardian columnists are revelling in the destruction of imperfect historical figures, perhaps unaware their employer’s past is one rooted in being on the side of the US Confederacy and opposition to Abraham Lincoln. Will Black Lives Matter protestors begin marching towards 90 York Way?

Back in the 1860s, The Manchester Guardian gave unqualified support to the confederacy during the American civil war; even reprinting confederate propaganda against the slaves’ liberator Abraham Lincoln.

“it was an evil day both for America and the world when he was chosen President of the United States”

– Manchester Guardian, 10th October 1862”

28082 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Lms23, #59 of 586 🔗

Perhaps that explains why the Lincoln statue was attacked.

27673 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PD, 1, #60 of 586 🔗

The Grad has been shamelessly begging all week. The appeal for donations was confined to top or bottom of pages but has recently started popping up, in quantity, among the articles.

Coincides with some uncomfortable questions suddenly being asked in the Mail. Torygraph etc.

Methinks the government bribe grant has run out. Maybe now we’ll start to see some journalism instead of blatant propaganda, at last.

The Grad front page graph is a welcome start, despite being disguised by Boris the smokescreen.

28019 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #61 of 586 🔗

Excuse my French, but I hope all the b’stids in the MSM go bust! Shameless, panic-mongering, lying b’stids.

27828 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to PD, #62 of 586 🔗

Shitting nora. That made my blood run cold.

27514 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 33, #63 of 586 🔗

Hi, I thought everyone would enjoy this one:

27563 ▶▶ IanE, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #64 of 586 🔗

On a point of info, however, it is now thought that slaves were NOT used to build the pyramids. Indeed, at least to some extent they seem to have been an early job creation scheme!

27605 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to IanE, 2, #65 of 586 🔗

Whatevs, really. It’s supposed to be joke. 🙂

27609 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to IanE, 2, #66 of 586 🔗

It was aliens!

27627 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to South Coast Worker, 3, #67 of 586 🔗

That’s ok so long as they were black aliens.

27618 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to IanE, 1, #68 of 586 🔗

They also saw the first recorded strike when craftsmen downed tools. So I think they are safe for the moment.

27641 ▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to IanE, 1, #69 of 586 🔗

And it would seem that all those years ago they were paid about the same as the minimum wage in Egypt today:-
4,500 years without a pay rise!

27656 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to IanE, 1, #70 of 586 🔗

I don’t think ‘It is now thought that…’ is likely to cut any ice with the mob. How about ‘It is now thought that Bristol would be a tiny, pointless village without the philanthropy of Edward Colston’, for instance?

27515 Mark, replying to Mark, 7, #71 of 586 🔗

Donated. And since this is very relevant to the topic of free speech I’ll repost it here, although I had just posted it on yesterday’s Sceptics:

Tucker Carson has been good on the coronapanic and fantastic on the BLM nonsense, so it’s no surprise that there is a renewed push to silence him. Of course, the businesses involved will claim they are genuinely socially concerned, or if they are feeling more honest, that they are just “protecting their brands”, but in reality decisions like this are made by individuals or pushed on corporate boards by groups of individuals, and these companies are either influenced by individuals within them who dislike Carlson’s political positions or kowtowing to threats of campaigns against them.

These kinds of things become tests of strength, and if Carson were to be quieted that would be another disastrous sign of weakness in the face of the menace of the race-baiting ideologues. That said, they’ve been after him for a while and haven’t got him yet.

Fox News Host Tucker Carlson Loses More Advertisers

Disney, Papa John’s, Poshmark and T-Mobile backed away from “Tucker Carlson Tonight” after the host’s comments about Black Lives Matter protests.

Tucker Carlson ad boycott causes headaches for Fox News

Media Matters, an advocacy group that opposes Fox, re-shared a list it keeps of Carlson’s sponsors. Sievert from T-Mobile spoke out on Tuesday. Papa John’s Pizza said on Wednesday it would halt future advertising.

27585 ▶▶ MoH, replying to Mark, 7, #72 of 586 🔗

If Fox News dumped Carlson, they would lose their most popular newsreader and they would lose many of their viewers. Carlson could start an independent You Tube channel and he would get millions of subscribers, so Fox wont drop him.

27637 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to MoH, 1, #73 of 586 🔗

Except YouTube would take his videos down.

27642 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 1, #74 of 586 🔗

Worse, it would just demonetise him, shadow ban him and refuse to justify their actions.

27717 ▶▶▶▶ MoH, replying to matt, 1, #75 of 586 🔗

Indeed. They will be coming for Fox and any non conformist voice on the internet after that

27780 ▶▶ Graham, replying to Mark, 4, #76 of 586 🔗

In anger and rage and a wish to get away from BLM and the iconoclasts and vandals I started reading Men at Arms by Evelyn Waugh. Guy Crouchback’s reaction to the Russo-German pact suits my mood: “The enemy at last was plain in view, huge and hateful, all disguise cast off. It was the modern age in arms. Whatever the outcome there was a place for him in that battle.”

27788 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Graham, #77 of 586 🔗

Not, overall, a particularly optimistic parallel….

27804 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, #78 of 586 🔗

Great book though.

27521 kh1485, 11, #79 of 586 🔗
27522 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 4, #80 of 586 🔗

For the last 75 years the Guardian has been lecturing us, telling us that economic depression inevitably leads to fascism. Indeed, I think they are correct. It’s just this time round the fascism is going to be the of the Far Left variety. By the way, a prize for anyone who ever hears a BBC, Sky or ITV presenter or jornalist use the word non-ironically, of their own volition.

27525 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 2, #81 of 586 🔗

Sorry I meant use the words “Far Left” …

27650 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to OKUK, 2, #82 of 586 🔗

Fascism was of the far Left variety last time too. It’s one of the big lies of the last century and the Left that the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany was far right:


Dinesh D’Souza Talks about the ‘Big Lie’ at UM 10/10/2017
(The Nazi roots of the Democrat party)

27523 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #83 of 586 🔗

“We cannot now try to edit or censor our past. We cannot pretend to have a different history. The statues in our cities and towns were put up by previous generations,” the prime minister wrote.

Curses! This means that there are now 2 things Johnson has said in the last n years with which I’m forced to agree!

The other one was about cycling safety. I am a former cycling instructor and his advice to cyclists approaching red traffic lights to overtake on the right – absolutely not on the left!! – and get to the front of the queue was bang-on and, ironically, a life-saver.

Meanwhile I draw a veil over just about everything else he’s ever said except what he was recorded saying to Darius Guppy – something the MSM and CPS has never gone near.

27527 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #84 of 586 🔗

Any particular reason cyclists should wait at the front, Miriam, rather than where they were in the stream of traffic ?

27542 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to JohnB, 9, #85 of 586 🔗

In case Miriam doesn’t see this — it’s to stop yourself from getting crushed by a left-turning lorry. Standard advice to urban cyclists is to “own the lane”, rather than hugging the kerb; this ensures you are visible. Obviously the speed of the motor traffic has to be taken into account. Fast-moving traffic is best avoided if possible.

BTW, to all fellow cyclists out there: a rear-view mirror can save your life.

27544 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Simon Dutton, #86 of 586 🔗

Not sure you’ve understood, Simon. Why not ‘own the lane’ in the stream of traffic where you were before stopping at the lights ?

(Everyone knows why one shouldn’t overtake on the left).

27558 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, 4, #87 of 586 🔗

I think Simon does understand, JohnB. Please see my longer answer to you in which I (hope) I explain that the front is better but staying in the traffic stream is OK if that’s not possible. The big deal is to stay visible to drivers and your position on the road is how you do that.

Sadly, I do not think that everyone does know that you shouldn’t overtake on the left. With the massive increase in cycling that is going on, I see people doing this everyday and I fear for them. Also, nobody has told them that they need to learn how to look behind them before changing their position.

If that’s difficult, I suggest following Simon’s suggestion and get a mirror for your handlebars.

27589 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #88 of 586 🔗

I used to cycle to school (several miles, big city, lots of traffic even back then) and we never worried about coming up inside a stationary queue of cars. Mind you we had more sense than to come up inside a long wheel base vehicle that might turn, and we knew to make sure anyone who might set off and turn knew we were there.

Of course, risk perceptions are relative. It probably didn’t seem particularly dangerous to us because we’d usually just been slipstreaming a bus….

27700 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, #89 of 586 🔗

or just do what the cyclists do round my way… use the pavements – much safer and pedestrians are nice and soft when you hit them

27555 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #90 of 586 🔗

More-or-less snap (we must have posted at the same time). I have never been into mirrors but, given the silence of so many modern cars, I am re-thinking this.

27613 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #91 of 586 🔗

I strongly recommend mirrors. Useful in high winds AND for making eye contact with drivers.

27552 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, 1, #92 of 586 🔗

Yes, if you are able to overtake, it means you can get to the advanced stop line which is supposed to be solely for cyclists to enable them to get away first. Nobody else, including motorbikes and scooters should be in it (!) You will be visible to other road-users where they are used to expecting to see other traffic. Finally, you will be breathing in less pollution from exhausts.

You can stay in line if the above is not possible e.g. there is not enough time before the lights change. If so, you should make sure to ‘take the lane’ i.e. stay in the middle of the lane, again for maximum visibility. Road positioning is the greater part of safety for cyclists, much more effective even than hi-viz jackets etc.

This may seem counter-intuitive to some people but to stay in the gutter is the worst thing you can do, however ‘safe’ this might feel. You may well get cut up by a driver turning left in front of you or get squeezed into the kerb. Also, drivers sometimes let out passengers at lights and they will not be looking out for a cyclist coming up the left.

Those cycle lanes on the left leading to an advanced stop line are best avoided and Johnson’s advice recognised this, presumably because at the time he was actually cycling himself!

There’s a lot of official stuff here:


27570 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #93 of 586 🔗

Hmm, two long replies – and I’m just off to do some illegal socialising. 🙂 🙂

Most junctions round here do not have ‘advance stop lines’. I’m not saying overtake on the left. I’m not saying sit in the gutter.

There are few things more irritating than being behind the same cyclist twice in 10 seconds, because for unexplained reasons, they (the slower moving vehicles) feel justified in jumping the queue.

Yet again, why ?

27617 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, 1, #94 of 586 🔗

Speaking as a cyclist AND a driver (as most cyclists are these days), I tend to sit in a line of traffic if we’re going to be stop go, stop go. I can usually get up to a faster speed than most motorists in heavy traffic, so it’s them holding me up, rather than the other way about. But then, I’m still alive and have never been knocked off or bumped. Anticipation and defensive riding in heavy traffic have stood me in good stead for decades.

27632 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #95 of 586 🔗

Enjoy your illegal!
BTW, cyclists like to get to the front of the queue because there’s less chance of getting squashed into the gutter by a larger vehicle.

27614 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #96 of 586 🔗

Another thing to consider is that a lot of drivers don’t sit in stationary traffic with their indicators on. And a lot forget – or never bother – to check their near side mirror before moving off or turning left from a stationary start. Because they should, it doesn’t mean they will. Avoid the bruises!

As you say, own the lane.

27657 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #97 of 586 🔗

Not even the letter-box line about burkas?

27529 Threepartslogan, replying to Threepartslogan, 1, #98 of 586 🔗

Hi all


I’m confused about this response to a FOI request on the ONS website.

In particular this paragraph:-

The accompanying bulletin for deaths registered weekly in England and Wales reports the number of deaths involving influenza and pneumonia (where COVID-19 was not also on the death certificate) in Figure 1. Additionally, the bulletin reports the total deaths involving influenza and pneumonia (but not COVID-19), in England and Wales for 2020, as at 1 May (latest available data) is 44,240 deaths . This total includes all deaths where influenza and pneumonia were mentioned somewhere on the death certificate and COVID-19 was not mentioned.

But I can’t see the figures in the actual bulletin? Am I missing something? And is this correct?

28092 ▶▶ matt, replying to Threepartslogan, 1, #99 of 586 🔗

That chimes with the data I looked at a couple of weeks ago, from the ONS site. It’s freely available, but I came across it by accident.

27547 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #100 of 586 🔗

I wonder about the iconoclasts. They pulled down a statue of a long dead slaver because slavery is bad, but they seem completely content to collude in the contemporary child slavery and forced labour the is fundamental to the production of chocolate. There is no such thing as guaranteed child labour free chocolate.

27562 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Hayes, 13, #101 of 586 🔗

Ash Sarkar seems quite happy with modern Vietnamese nail bar slavery judging by her nails.

Sky seem untroubled (indeed unaware of, they would like you to believe) by the modern Chinese slave gangs employed throughout Northern Italy, despite the clear link with the spread of Covid-19.

The Guardian seem quite happy with systematic grooming, to use the polite word, up and down the country by certain social groups.

The BBC don’t seem to have a problem with a certain slaver being a revered religious leader, believed to be the “perfect example” for all humans to follow. .

No one ever mentions that slavery in China was not abolished till 1910. Why no reparations for Chinese slaves?

Arab-run and African slavery are of no interest to LBC.

27582 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to OKUK, 7, #102 of 586 🔗

Two years ago Piers Morgan was completely opposed to the toppling of statues. Now he fully supports the toppling of statues. No one appears to want to ask him why he changed his mind.

27634 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 15, #103 of 586 🔗

What mind?

27691 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #104 of 586 🔗

“No one appears to want to ask him why he changed his mind”

Because nobody wants to talk to him…?

28069 ▶▶▶ Colin MacDonald, replying to OKUK, #105 of 586 🔗

No mention of the millions of Europeans enslaved by Barbary pirates either. Incidentally African rulers profited from black slavery, Europeans derived no such benefits. So given that Barbary is in North Africa perhaps the reparations should go the other way.

27653 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #106 of 586 🔗

If they were really bothered about black slavery, they’d be protesting against the current slat markets in Libya.
Some African countries had slavery into the last century.
Instead they protest against the country that stopped it, not only the Atlantic trade, but the Barbary coast pirates who took slaves, and of course the rest of the world.

27757 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lms23, 3, #107 of 586 🔗

From U.K. Column this week:

Modern Slavery
£130 Billion Profit
21 Million victims worldwide

54% Sexual Exploitation
38% Forced Labour
8% Other (organs)

27556 Threepartslogan, #108 of 586 🔗


There is a FOI request response on the ONS website but I don’t understand it.

The accompanying bulletin for deaths registered weekly in England and Wales reports the number of deaths involving influenza and pneumonia (where COVID-19 was not also on the death certificate) in Figure 1. Additionally, the bulletin reports the total deaths involving influenza and pneumonia (but not COVID-19), in England and Wales for 2020, as at 1 May (latest available data) is 44,240 deaths . This total includes all deaths where influenza and pneumonia were mentioned somewhere on the death certificate and COVID-19 was not mentioned.

Anyone else able to decipher this? I don’t understand this 44,240 figure or am I reading this wrong?

27559 Ross Hendry, replying to Ross Hendry, 11, #109 of 586 🔗

I have no doubt that Big Pharma is ultimately responsible for many health scandals. They are not interested in whatever cures unless it’s something they can patent. If they can’t do that they take steps to create negative publicity about the remedies. There is huge evidence for the curative properties of vitamins for example but Big Pharma have tried to severely restrict their availability to the public via lobbying at the EU (fortunately they didn’t prevail). With the Coronavirus it can be shown that sunlight and Vitamin D3 in large doses are massive boosts to the immune system and so are strongly preventative, forget vaccination. Naturally this isn’t allowed to garner too much publicity.


27566 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ross Hendry, 5, #110 of 586 🔗

BIg Pharma does good and bad in equal measure I expect! Their push to vaccinate for every disease known to humanity is clearly going to do us great harm, since it is our immune systems that keep us alive, not vaccinations. Our immune system is seeing off threats every minute – no, second – of every day. For instance, the average healthy person has 10s of thousands of cancer cells in their blood at any one time that the body deals with. With good housing, clean water, a good diet, clean air and exercise, there is little for anyone aged under 60 to fear in our modern world, in terms of disease – unless they have some underlying health condition such as diabetes.

27851 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to OKUK, -3, #111 of 586 🔗

And without good housing, clean water, a good diet an exercise? Which is lacking in much of the world? Look up carriage of Hib and incidence of meningitis post vaccination. Or cervical cancer. Or reductions in fatal cerebral malaria in children. Vaccination has brought greater benefit to human health than any other intervention. All on the back of trying to get the immune system to do more and be better prepared when needed. Ever had shingles? Well guess what? Sometimes your immune system can do with a little boost to keep that virus that’s inside your nervous system under control. Particularly as one ages.

27855 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to djaustin, 3, #112 of 586 🔗

We need a balanced approach to mass vaccination…not the hysterical sort of non-evidence based approach you adopt. Do you know how many children die each year from food allergies and asthma? A lot more than die from measles. There are many doctors who think multiple vaccinations have played a part in the rise of allergies and asthma – it’s just they’re not allowed on our screens.

28047 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to OKUK, #113 of 586 🔗

Absolute nonsense. Measles accounts for 140,000 child deaths per annum worldwide (2018). And that is with 86% of all children worldwide receiving at least one dose of the vaccine. In the U.K. over a 10 year period only 8 children died of food allergies. Paediatric deaths from status asthmaticus in the U.K. is about one every couple of years (I worked on severe asthma a for years). If you extrapolate the U.K. experience to global – where food allergy is rarer, it’s about 1/1000 of the deaths from measles annually.

If your going to post opinion state it as such. Otherwise point to some facts.



28278 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to djaustin, #114 of 586 🔗

A fact – UK (ONS) measles deaths for the last ten years shows either 0 or 1 per year.

Looks like good housing, clean water, a good diet, and exercise, do the job.

27873 ▶▶▶▶ A leaf, replying to djaustin, 3, #115 of 586 🔗

Average us child gets about 30 somethimg vaccines(some combined), average uk child get about 20 something again combined and average japanese and israeli childer get about 10 something..what does this tell you? Are japan and israel infection ridden countries no actually they are very healthy…so you dont need that much of vaccines. Old vaccines measels, polio etc were not huarmfull yet are still used in those countries too but even this difference shows we don’t need a vaccine for every microbe out there.

28042 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to djaustin, 1, #116 of 586 🔗

What are you saying? That vaccines are the answer to immune deficiency?
There are safer, more sensible ways to support and boost your immune system!

28102 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Cheezilla, #117 of 586 🔗

Herd immunity is the answer to immune deficiency. If others can pass the infection onto you then even though you may be immunocompromised, you gain some protection from others not carrying the pathogen. Some people have no options to boost their immune system. That includes many people with autoimmune diseases and almost anyone undergoing cancer treatment.

27587 ▶▶ MoH, replying to Ross Hendry, 15, #118 of 586 🔗

The Chief Scientific Officer is Patrick Vallance, the former R&D President for GlaxoSmithKline until 2018

Jeremy Farrar is a director of the Wellcome Trust and is a representative of SAGE

The corruption is hidden in plain sight and stinks to high heaven

27588 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ross Hendry, 6, #119 of 586 🔗

I agree. BigPharma wants to get people hooked on drugs for the long-term: (anti-depressants, contraceptive pill and then HRT, statins, blood-pressure lowering drugs, PPIs etc, etc.). It creates ‘diseases’ that aren’t really diseases in order to maximise the bottom line. If Big Pharma gave a toss, why hasn’t it developed an antibiotic since 1987?

27927 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to kh1485, 4, #120 of 586 🔗

There’s much less money in cures – and if it works, you automatically lose the customer.

27592 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Ross Hendry, 2, #121 of 586 🔗

I think the patent system is a big problem across many industries, it does create quite perverse incentives and hinders progress. We might need a new way to fund some aspects of drug development but if we all then had access to the resultant drugs and the incentive to not use non patentable remedies was removed we would all benefit.

27651 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to Ross Hendry, 7, #122 of 586 🔗

The BMJ is more honest than the Lancet. A recent paper authored by highly respected Danish scientist Peter Aaby questioned the relatively short 2 year testing period of vaccines in Africa – because Aaby found that all-cause infant mortality more than doubled after the introduction of the DTP vaccination. The mainstream scientific community remained silent and UNICEF and other African nations ignored an ICAN legal challenge to stop distributing the vaccine. Why? UNICEF like the WHO has major funding from Bill Gates and most African nations rely on grants from them to fund their HIV and other health programmes. Yes, I agree with the editor of the NEJM – it is criminal.


27560 Major Panic, 3, #123 of 586 🔗

”wash, rinse, repeat”

Weak political leadership and a media with a unified agenda has allowed the extreme left to take the initiatitive.
When the extreme of either wing escapes things, historically, can end up messy.
The aim of the extreme left and righ (twins, but they don’t know it) is to divide the silent majority.
With the ‘nasty cold’ BS and the upcoming economic storm we are in dangerous waters.
Maybe we silent majority, just getting on with life, no time for political activism, have had it too good for too long.
I hope someone takes control of the situation.
A good start would be getting Cummings hand outa Bozo’s arse, he can go get his Big Pharma payout, and maybe a real ‘Chirchill’ type can sort the job out.

Professor of common Sense (not spelling)

27567 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #124 of 586 🔗

Fascism might well be preferable to the cowboys and Indians we have for a government now…

Whoops, did i just say that out loud?

27569 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Edgar Friendly, 11, #125 of 586 🔗

Nope. I am with the sainted Winston on that one: “Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…”

The problem we have is that democracy is being eroded by several contemporary trends: disruption of campaigning with physical attacks (milk shake throwing etc), preventing public meetings taking place (UKIP suffered this), electoral malpractice (overt corruption, double voting and misuse of postal ballots), gross media bias (including by the state-funded BBC), general attacks on free speech, judicial activism, and social media interference by PC billionaires or hostile states (Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran etc). All these egregious examples could be tackled but the Government has done nothing.

27571 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to OKUK, #126 of 586 🔗

Saint Winston…… I’d go along with that.

27856 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Winston Smith, #127 of 586 🔗

You are duly canonised.

27568 Steve, 1, #128 of 586 🔗

If anyone else, like me, is furious at the state of affairs in Wales, have a look at North Wales Police Twitter account. Yesterday they tweeted:

The region has been noticeably busier since lockdown rules were relaxed but legislation states that we must continue to #StayLocal

Then this morning they tweeted:

The message is clear #StayLocal whenever you can and keep your distance from each other….

So which is it? Yesterday it was legislation, today you only have to stay local ‘whenever you can’ i.e. it is only guidance.

Total utter madness.

27573 John B, replying to John B, 4, #129 of 586 🔗

‘… because the pharmaceutical companies are so financially powerful today and are able to use such methodologies, as to have us accept papers which are apparently methodologically perfect but which, in reality, manage to conclude what they want to conclude…”

This has been going on since God was in short trousers. The French behind the times as usual.

27635 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to John B, 6, #130 of 586 🔗

At least the French allow people to talk about Pharma’s undue influence on medical journals on national TV, unlike the rest of the world that just goes along with it. None of the UK’s MSM would ever accept an interview of this kind, even if it was a former Health minister.

27576 Nobody2020, 16, #131 of 586 🔗

Robert Dingwall speaks a lot of sense:

“We can probably manage to live with a recurrent infection that will be relatively minor in most of the people who contract it and will have significant consequences for others. The numbers of those who get seriously ill can remain within the capacity of a health system that has had time and investment to deal with it. If we have done that, we may come back and ask how much we really need to restructure everyday life around a public-health model, as opposed to a more social and economic model.”

27578 Mimi, 1, #132 of 586 🔗

Thanks for the horse picture! Sceptical is one beautiful mass of lean muscle!

Some calculations from U.S. data:

If the whole USA had the per capita death toll of the average per-cap toll of the 17 least affected states, there would’ve been 20,443 deaths nationwide by now.

For the middle third of states, it is 48,460.

If all states were all affected like the most affected 17 states, it would be 259,518.

Obviously the last category includes New York, which is a major outlier even among the worst-affected states. Note that COVID is most deadly in blue states, and in states with the strictest lockdown/social distancing measures. Of course, many propose that New York got hit with an especially deadly strain….

27579 John B, replying to John B, 31, #133 of 586 🔗

Sweden’s economy, for instance, is expected to shrink by just 7% in 2020 .’

The difference being Sweden has not piled itself high with debt by paying peoples’ wages, and making hand-outs to companies inactive during lockdown, or spent mega-money on hospitals not needed, ventilators not needed, recalled clinical staff not needed, track&trace software and personnel not only not needed but useless.

Further, since in Sweden most retail outlets, bars, restos remained open, business did not drop to zero and since it never shut does not have to go from a cold start. People kept on working and know they have jobs, many now in the UK don’t know if they will still have their old jobs when the UK starts up again… if ever!

It is not just about how much the economy shrunk, but how quickly it can recover. Sweden’s economy was ticking over so still had momentum so much easier to gear up. UK economy came to a complete stop. Restarting and coping with the debt will make it harder and longer to recover.

27619 ▶▶ ianric, replying to John B, 6, #134 of 586 🔗

If you shut down vast swathes of the economy, the longer it goes on, the more problems pile up. An issue I pointed out in another comment a major possible problem a lockdown creates is that disputes could occur. For instance, pubs, restaurants and shops pay rent to landlords. On the one hand landlords need revenue from rent and on the other hand tenants may feel why should they pay rent for periods when they can’t operate. If the government provides help for landlords to cover lost rent, the issue is resolved but what happens if this help is not available. I have annual gym membership. As gyms can’t operate I am paying for membership for something I can’t use. Would the gym be obliged to extend my membership to cover the period it couldn’t operate.

Are businesses going to find their suppliers going bust. A factor which could hit businesses is people not going back to old habits. We have gone almost three months where people can’t eat out, go to pubs, visit barbers and hairdressers or shop in most shops. Will people become so used to not doing these things, they will not return to these habits.

27696 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ianric, 9, #135 of 586 🔗

Only a few months ago, a friend who lives in a posh hamlet miles from the nearest shop,turned her nose up at online food shopping because she likes to choose stuff for herself. Three months of lockdown and she was celebrating the fact that she might never have to go shopping again.

This morning, a different friend and I were lampooning the ridiculous rules that must be followed when shops open on Monday. (Bear in mind that the compulsory indoor mask-wearing may already have been added to the list of insults, making this even more of a ghastly experience.)
She loves to shop and we unraveled the scenario for clothes shopping in a local big indoor shopping mall. It goes like this:

You have to queue 2m apart and wait to be allowed into the shop of choice. Given that this applies to all the other units in the mall, window shoping is out of the question and social distancing in the various queues will soon be impossible.
At last you enter the shop, to find you are not allowed to try the clothes on but must purchase them and try at home. Being rich, or with a generous credit card, you buy 6 outfits and off you go.
You try at home, find the one you wish to keep, then have to find time and energy to venture back to the mall and go through the whole queuing process again in order to return the others for a refund.
Meanwhile, because everyone is doing this, the stock in the shop is rapidly being depleted, so those who’ve been queuing find there’s not enough to choose from when they finally make it inside.
My friend noted that you might as well stay home and shop at Amazon. I noted that they’ve been training us to do that for the last three months.

27711 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #136 of 586 🔗

The measures shop are bringing in will take away the advantages shops have over online businesses. An advantage of clothes shops you can try clothes in the shops and return in store if they don’t fit which can’t be done if you shop online. This advantage is lost if fitting rooms can’t be used. Who wants the hassle of queuing to get in shops.

27719 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #137 of 586 🔗

I have also heard that clothes that get returned have to be in some way ‘decontaminated’ before being put out again, so that will further lead to stock depletion. I think the government secretly want all shops to close, and for all shopping to be done online; they just won’t say so.

27802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 4, #138 of 586 🔗

It does look suspiciously deliberate, doesn’t it?!

27716 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to John B, 1, #139 of 586 🔗

Sweden has actually had a furlough scheme, but it is already being tapered off now. Not as extensive as the UK though. They did construct a field hospital in the Stockholm area, but it did not get used! Retail businesses have remained open, but with reduced footfall most have reduced their opening hours (opening an hour later and shutting an hour earlier, and some have shut at lunchtime, which they do not normally do).

27597 Biker, replying to Biker, 10, #140 of 586 🔗

Little tip for those who don’t want to wait in a queue at the supermarket. Pick a store that has an optician and just walk up to the front, tell the person working there ( it could be me) say you’ve an appointment at the optician they’ll let you in no question asked.

27659 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Biker, #141 of 586 🔗

Does this also work with the fish counter?

27661 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to grammarschoolman, 2, #142 of 586 🔗

Once you’re in, you’re in.

27672 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Biker, #143 of 586 🔗

Have you written any more poems?

27693 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Mike Smith, #144 of 586 🔗

There once was a virus called covid 19
that made all the shop workers hide behind a screen
then along came some negro’s
who all wanted to be hero’s
and pissed on a statue of the Queen

27807 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Biker, #145 of 586 🔗

it’s possible but my whore of mother won’t tell me who my father is but if i had to choose it would be Ant, or is it Dec? I can’t tell

27686 ▶▶ Skippy, replying to Biker, 2, #146 of 586 🔗

Sneaky, I tip my cap at the audacious flexing of the lockdown!!!

27598 Mark, replying to Mark, #147 of 586 🔗

An ethical issue for the day, and for the FSU:

Should we be concerned to protect or help individuals who themselves have been shamelessly hypocritical and high profile members of the political correctness mobs, if they ultimately fall foul of them. themselves?

Guten Morgan Britain

(Just posted by on yesterday’s page.)

27600 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 3, #148 of 586 🔗

Not disputing, by the way, the utterly pathetic absurdity of condemning people for wearing costumes, including blackface.

27616 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, 1, #149 of 586 🔗

I can answer that one. No.

27645 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 7, #150 of 586 🔗

Yes, yes we should. Because the right to free speech is the right to free speech, so if we make exceptions based on what is said and who has said it, then you end up right back where we are today.

27647 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 1, #151 of 586 🔗

Hard to feel much sympathy, but if asked I’d say that the same standards should apply to everyone, even him.

But he wouldn’t be top of my priority list, if for no other reason than he’s rich and famous and will probably have other defenders and friends, and fall on his feet.

27660 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Mark, 2, #152 of 586 🔗

Yes, because free speech is free speech. But only after we’ve all had a good laugh first.

27663 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to grammarschoolman, 2, #153 of 586 🔗

I defend your right to say anything you like. As long as you respect my right to laugh at you for saying it.

27689 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 1, #154 of 586 🔗

Of course. Same rule for everyone.

(We can however still bask in the schadenfreude every time a former collaborator gets their just desserts when the mob finally turns on them- it always does – and feel smug as we stick up for them)

27601 rodmclaughlin, replying to rodmclaughlin, #155 of 586 🔗


I don’t think this is very funny. The Taliban blew up statues of the Buddha. Activists are tearing down statues of slaveowners, and one defaced a statue of Churchill, who was no Gautama Buddha.

27615 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to rodmclaughlin, 3, #156 of 586 🔗

Well, the Buddha was born into an aristocratic family. He would have been a beneficiary of slavery. That would be enough for the Far Left fascists.

27662 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to rodmclaughlin, 4, #157 of 586 🔗

Yes, Churchill was much better.

27607 AGN, 2, #158 of 586 🔗

On a dark desert highway, COVID in the air
No smell of colitas could I sense anywhere
Up ahead in the distance, I saw a shimmering light
My brow grew fevered and my cough was dry
I had to stop for the night
There she stood in the doorway
I heard the Thursday clap
And I was thinking to myself
“This could be Heaven, or could be a trap”
Then she cranked up the model and she showed me the R
There were voices down the corridor
I heard them from afar

Welcome to the Hotel Lock-ya-downia
Such a lovely scene (Such a lovely scene)
For your quarantine
Furloughin’s good at the Hotel Lock-ya-downia
Any time of year (Any time of year)
You’ll get free cash here

Her mind is socially distanced, she got an improvised mask
She got a lot of pretty, pretty boys she can ask
To wash their hands in the fountain, soap makes them clean
Some sing Happy Birthday, some sing of Jolene

So I called up the Captain
“Wine, or I’ll parch”
He said, “We haven’t had a pub round here since twenty-third of March.”
And still that choir is calling for you to join them
But don’t do it ‘cos you’ll spread the germ
Unless you’re BLM

Welcome to the Hotel Lock-ya-downia
Such a lovely scene (Such a lovely scene)
For your quarantine
Leave plenty of space at the Hotel Lock-ya-downia
If you’re track-n-traced (if you’re track-n-traced)
You must isolate

Smoke-and-mirror finances
Economy on ice
And she said “We are all just prisoners here, of our own device”
And in the master’s chambers
They try to build an app
They test it on the Isle of Wight
But it just turns out like cr*p

Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find a passage back to the normal as before
“Relax” said Matt Hancock,
“We are programmed to deceive
You can unlock any time you like
But you can never leave!”

27624 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #159 of 586 🔗

Saturday night in the Bigg Market after a North East derby. Northumbria Police waiting in the wings. How do we think some of today’s protesters hell-bent on pulling down statues would fair?

27630 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #160 of 586 🔗

Sorry ‘fare’!

27648 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #161 of 586 🔗

Escaping the Bigg Market on a Saturday night with all of your teeth is an achievement at the best of times.

27655 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, #162 of 586 🔗

You were pretty safe in Ricks Cocktail bar, less so in Legends or Robinsons!

27658 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #163 of 586 🔗

Ah, Legends!

There’s a reason I stayed in other parts of town most weekend evenings.

27666 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, #164 of 586 🔗

Were you too young for Grobbs (it was raided and only three people were over 18!) and Tuxedo Junction (the ‘in place’ before the Princess)?

27667 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #165 of 586 🔗

The boat was about my era, sorry to say.

If you could have found even 3 people in there over 18 in 1992 I’d be amazed (I was not over 18 in 992)

27675 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, #166 of 586 🔗

Grobbs shut down around 1982, then re-opened as a 21’s club. My friend was there when it was raided (she was 6 weeks or so from her 18th birthday, and got a ‘ticket’), but luckily I was not. Did you do The Royal in Whitley – for anyone else listening in, it was the NE equivalent of Annabel’s (lots of young ladies with their uncles!!).

27688 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #167 of 586 🔗

Yes… before my time.

Didn’t spend much time in Whitley Bay. A bit too close to mum’s work!

27638 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 13, #168 of 586 🔗

Re the Lockdown Economic Crisis. This is of unprecedented proportions. We need to think about how we get out of this.

As long as it can be seen we are returning at a brisk pace to normality, I think it will be credible to simply write off the debt generated over the last few months. That will not be without its consequences (a sharp rise in inflation can be expected I guess), but sticking with the debt will also have huge, huge consequences on public finances for many years to come. The government normally creates money (QE) by creating keystroke money to buy bank bonds. It might be better if it bought company bonds throughout the economy, since it’s production that needs to get moving.

I think the Government should also encourage a spending bonanza. As the Japanese government did, it should provide token cards to spend x amount within say three months.
Yes.this will be more money creation, but it will help dig us out of a hole, not dig us further into one.

We also need specific relief on pubs and restaurants, reduce the duty paid on alcohol in those establishments, and pay for it by raising it on supermarkets and other retail outlets. That will encourage people to go out and enjoy themselves. Of course we need to reduce the social distancing rule to 1 metre with immediate effect and put a time limit on it as well – maybe two months.

27687 ▶▶ IanE, replying to OKUK, 3, #169 of 586 🔗

I like your thinking, sir. Little chance of course with the current bunch of monkeys in charge!

27708 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, 1, #170 of 586 🔗

Good idea. However for the muppets in our government and the civil service – its too easy and too much common sense.

27762 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to OKUK, 4, #171 of 586 🔗

You do not seem to understand how money works. Except for banknotes and coins, it is not created by the government but by the banks.

International hedge funds are at the apex of the pyramid. Beneath them are the central banks, principally the Federal Reserve and the Bank of England, which was the first to be created. Then come the investment and retail banks and the multinational corporations. Subject to the whims of their overlords is the so-called Deep State; in Britain this is controlled by Mark Sedwill. Next come the politicians, who are lackeys providing theatre to convince us mugs that we have any influence over events and persuade us that we are not being farmed. The fruits of the common people’s labour are directed up the pyramid.

The financial system never recovered from the crash in 2008 and by last autumn was teetering on the verge of collapse. One of the objects of the “pandemic” is to precipitate that collapse and supply a scapegoat: hence the lockdown. There are other, more sinister, objects, but the financial collapse was the most pressing.

This film explains fiat money for the layman and is well worth anyone’s time.

27796 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to OKUK, 4, #172 of 586 🔗

Why get into the debate about how many centimetres “social distancing” is allowed.
Let’s get back to acting like human beings!

27640 Paul, replying to Paul, 17, #173 of 586 🔗

Email from Argos,the latest company to lose the plot,

Safety is our absolute priority and our colleagues have been working hard to get everything ready and to make sure you can shop with us safely. All Argos stores will continue to work on a click and collect basis for the time being. We hope to reintroduce shopping in stores in the coming weeks, but until then you will need to order your items before you arrive at the store. There might be a queue to get into the store as we will be limiting the number of customers allowed in store at any one time. Our colleagues will be on hand to make sure we have a safe number of people inside the store and to help with social distancing while queuing. All stores will have perspex safety screens at the tills and our colleagues will be following social distancing guidelines at all times, including when they collect items from the warehouse and bring them to the collection counter. This might mean it takes them a little longer than usual to serve you

I’ve found shopping there a dismal experience at the best of times,so another shop to add to my avoid list.

27644 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 6, #174 of 586 🔗

Groan … It has been instructive to see how many people forget about social distancing when they want to grab a seat to enjoy their takeaway tea/coffee! Just nearly had a scrum outside my place as soon as a few seats became available!

27649 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Paul, 10, #175 of 586 🔗

I’m not an Argos regular but the times I have been I would have struggled to get within 2 metres of anyone. Of all the shops you’d think would be able to cope with distancing, it’s them.

27684 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Paul, 7, #176 of 586 🔗

Most of these stores will be shut by xmas if this bull shit continues

27699 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, 8, #177 of 586 🔗

Not even Christmas, at the bare minimum those already in trouble might go under before this month is over.

27729 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #178 of 586 🔗

You have to watch for the quarter days – next one 24 June – when rent is due for many retail businesses (see wiki):

27741 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #179 of 586 🔗

Which is not long to go now….

27799 ▶▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #180 of 586 🔗

They (shops) could all afford the March quarter day rent as they’d had the best part of a quarter’s trading pre l-d.
Nobody can afford the June quarter day rent – there’s no income to pay it from.
A bloodbath for the property companies and another tightening of the screw on the economy.

27818 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nic, 1, #181 of 586 🔗

They won’t be able to last that long under the crazy regs.

27715 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul, 5, #182 of 586 🔗

I find myself sort of hoping that from when the shops open there will be several weeks of continuous rain during opening hours… let’s see how their sales go then…No one will queue long in pouring rain..

27718 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 2, #183 of 586 🔗

I believe that the long range forecast does include rain which won’t only affect shops but the likes of National Trust and English Heritage properties as well as Blenheim, Chatsworth, etc – won’t be surprised if they will be kept busy refunding tickets over the phone or online as visitors will cancel due to the bad weather.

27766 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Paul, #184 of 586 🔗

Covid did do one good thing though, it ended the DFS eternal sale.

27778 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 1, #185 of 586 🔗

I once heard Theresa May’s negotiating style summed up as “she’s the kind of woman who could walk into DFS and come out with a full price sofa”. Forget who said it, but perfect.

27654 Ethelred the Unready, 1, #186 of 586 🔗

‘Super Fergie – Shagger of The Year’, fixed it….

27665 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, 6, #187 of 586 🔗

In case you missed this petition to end social distancing, here it is again: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/320079

Please sign and share. Thanks.

27668 ▶▶ matt, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #188 of 586 🔗

Done. Does this mean it’s been approved now?

27680 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 25, #189 of 586 🔗

Following up from Paul’s comment about Argos, here’s the one I received from John Lewis:

We’re pleased to let you know that from Monday 15 June, we’ll begin to reopen some of our shops, and we can’t wait to welcome you back.

We’re taking a cautious approach to reopening, starting with a small number of shops from next week. Our top priority is keeping you and our Partners safe whilst shopping with us, so we’re taking great care to put comprehensive social distancing and cleaning measures in place.

Our shops will look a little different for a while, but you can find out exactly what to expect below:
Help us to keep everyone safe by keeping a 2-metre distance from others and shopping alone where possible.
You may have to queue to enter the shop, so that we can limit the number of customers in the store at one time.
We will be sanitising baskets after every use and regularly cleaning touch points around our shops. We’ll also be providing hand sanitiser for you to use.
We’ve installed protective screens at tills and customer service desks. We encourage you to pay by card and there will be designated points to collect online orders.
Don’t hesitate to chat to them if you have any questions or feedback. They might be wearing PPE – each Partner has the option to wear this if they wish to.
Some of our in-store services are unavailable, and The Place to Eat and other in-store restaurants remain closed. You can still enjoy expert advice from our Partners by booking one of our virtual services online.

There was a video as well but I couldn’t stomach watching it.

My list of companies to boycott is certainly getting longer and longer.

27694 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #190 of 586 🔗

Other than supermarkets, I’ve vowed never to enter another shop until all this socialist distancing madness has stopped and we’re back to normal – the old normal. BTW, why is “partner” capitalised in the garbage from John Lewis?

27698 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tenchy, 6, #191 of 586 🔗

My husband and I have come to the same conclusion as well – we’ll be confining ourselves to supermarkets and are boycotting the high street until this madness is over.

I have no idea but according to a work colleague who used to have a Saturday job at Waitrose all employees are called “partners”

27730 ▶▶▶ South Coast Worker, replying to Tenchy, 4, #192 of 586 🔗

I used to work for Waitrose. The ‘partnership’ is just a scam to avoid staff unionising.

27712 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #193 of 586 🔗

Shopping will also be far less fun if you are always expected to shop alone..

27720 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 6, #194 of 586 🔗

Exactly. Shopping is also a leisure activity and meant to be social as well, especially with clothes there are times you want to bring along someone to get a second opinion.

27721 ▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #195 of 586 🔗

I think they forgot to mention they will be putting their prices up to pay for all of this nonsense.

27722 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Back To Normal, 2, #196 of 586 🔗

Yep. The cynical of us have already cottoned on to that.

27786 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Back To Normal, 3, #197 of 586 🔗

Times today reports that one store chain has spent £75,000 per store on making their premises ‘ Covid compliant’. That’s a lot of extra dosh to be extracted from customers – if they get any.

27738 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #198 of 586 🔗

I can’t believe that someone has put that together with a straight face and thought ‘yes this will get the customers flooding back’.It’s like the script for a sketch in Not The Nine O’clock News ! (that gives my age away a bit !).

27742 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 3, #199 of 586 🔗

I had the same thought and wonder if they seriously believe that people will eagerly flock to their shops by recreating East Germany or the USSR.

27750 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #200 of 586 🔗

I think they’re doing the best they can. I won’t credit them for it, because a business the size of JLP should feel confident enough to stand up, lobby and voice their concerns, but they desperately need to survive and if they have to follow the rules, so as not to be officially shut down and so that can attract customers who are terrified, they’re going to have to produce marketing material trying to make it sound as upbeat as possible.

When new rules come in, it’s always the big beasts that are targeted as an example for breaking them. John Lewis must be very worried about that.

27763 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 3, #201 of 586 🔗

Agree. It’s a case of damned if they do damned if they don’t.

Someone on this blog can’t remember who, said that perhaps the retail sector will regain their voice as these regulations put customers off from coming through their doors. These shops have made little to no money during the last three months, they cannot afford to lose anymore.

27744 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #202 of 586 🔗

It’s difficult, because I really don’t like online shopping and I desperately don’t want to see the high street die a slow and painful death. I’ve always loved the experience of actually going into town on a shopping trip and making a day of it with a stop at a café/restaurant as well, but all these dreadful measures make me want to boycott every establishment that implements them.

27746 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 7, #203 of 586 🔗

I’m the same as well. I’m not fond of shopping (especially clothes) but I always make a day of it by slotting in browsing at a bookshop then going to a cafe or restaurant. Also I have a rather awkward body shape and have to try on clothes before buying them hence why I never liked shopping online for them.

That’s why I’m doing a public transport and high street boycott – no to muzzle wearing and no to antisocial distancing.

27683 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #204 of 586 🔗


“One in five hospital Covid patients caught killer bug on a ward”
What gets me is this is what worries them most about it:

“The new data has fuelled concern that NHS trusts, alongside care homes, are causing Covid-19 to ‘re-seed’ into the community, making it difficult to lift lockdown restrictions”

And then this:

“It comes as the reproduction rate of the coronavirus could be as high as 1.1 in the South West of England, officials have warned, meaning the virus is on the brink of surging out of control in the rural region”

Micro analysing the R number is like day trading on the stock market. Are we meant to lockdown on the basis of random fluctuations or is it wiser to wait to see some sort of trend?

27710 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #205 of 586 🔗

I guess at least it is positive that the MSM are reporting that the increase is due to nosocomial infections rather than blaming the public for not obeying the social distancing ‘rules’..

27833 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #206 of 586 🔗

I don’t see it as positive. It’s an excuse to increase the draconian measures, rather than removing them.
They seem determined to brainwash people to believe a second wave is inevitable – which it probably is, though I’m sure it will be a complete fabrication.

27844 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, #207 of 586 🔗

A second wave won’t be allowed to happen. The fear of a second wave is enough. They can impose a lockdown simply based on the R number. No second wave would be necessary.

27701 Michael May, 1, #208 of 586 🔗

Winston Churchill: A man so awesome that, even today, his statues have to be restrained in steel boxes.

27702 tinxx, replying to tinxx, 16, #209 of 586 🔗

The latest release of the Sage minutes from May 12 reveal an estimated R number from outside Care homes and hospital settings of 0.5-0.6 . A month ago. Added to that they bulk of these were perceived to be amongst essential workers. How/ why are we still accepting this lockdown?

27703 ▶▶ Michael May, replying to tinxx, #210 of 586 🔗

I just hope someone in the bureaucratic blob is collecting the data on where and when each of the CoVID-19 case originates.

27705 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to tinxx, 2, #211 of 586 🔗

Hence why they have been including the meaningless R value within care homes to bump it up.

27706 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 8, #212 of 586 🔗

Oy Toby! Where’s my credit for putting that lovely Time magazine spoof cover together? That took me ages. You naughty man you! 😜

I can just imagine Neil Ferguson waking up in the morning, feeling all heroic. He picks up his bed sheet and drapes it over himself to resemble a cape. Then he looks into the mirror and says, “You’re a hero and you know it!” He starts humming the Superman theme tune and running round his bedroom, pretending to fly and saving humanity!

Once he’s done, he goes to his office to do some more “modelling”. And by modelling, I mean an Airfix starter set for children aged 6+.

27709 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RDawg, 3, #213 of 586 🔗

It’s very good. I duckducked Time just to check it wasn’t real.

(The Time site was pretty sickening anyway, tbh.)

27724 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Mark, 3, #214 of 586 🔗

You might have seen the original one I did? I posted it a couple of days ago on here; Neil Ferguson with his pants round his ankles. I sent it to Toby, but he suggested I try the opposite approach – a mock up of Ferguson as the Time magazine hero of the year, looking all heroic and presidential.

I’m not a violent person, but Neil Ferguson has such a punchable face!

27734 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 1, #215 of 586 🔗

I preferred yours. It was spot on.

27713 Allen, 8, #216 of 586 🔗

There is a HUGE factor omitted from all of these “excessive death” numbers which is the way that the “excessive death” numbers have been trending over the last decade in the US.

This year is decidedly NOT an aberration.

For the US, the Macrotrends site below estimates 8.88 deaths per 1,000 residents for 2020, which would be about 3 million deaths of all causes for Jan. 1 to Dec. 31 of this year. The chances of the “Coronavirus epidemic” pushing that figure noticeably up, in a way such that someone at a distant time or place glancing at a table of deaths for a long period would immediately notice, appears to now be zero. Though I am sure most people will still vaguely think it is a major threat of exactly that kind, owing to the pro-Panic side’s control of the media narrative.

On total deaths in the 2010’s in the US.

The low-period for deaths per capita in the US was 2008 to 2013 (rate: 8.12 to 8.16 range). Looking at deaths since then (2013 to 2019):

US Deaths per 1000 residents:

– 2013: 8.159
– 2014: 8.264
– 2015: 8.369
– 2016: 8.475
– 2017: 8.580
– 2018: 8.685
– 2019: 8.782
– 2020: (proj.) 8.880

US Census estimates for total resident population as of July 1 of each year (Census Table NST-EST 2019-01):

– 2013: 315,993,715
– 2014: 318,301,008
– 2015: 320,635,163
– 2016: 322,941,311
– 2017: 324,985,539
– 2018: 326,687,501
– 2019: 328,239,523
– 2020: 329,877,505

Multiplying the two we get an interesting result.


– 2013 total deaths: 2,578,000
– 2014 total deaths: 2,630,500
– 2015 total deaths: 2,683,500
– 2016 total deaths: 2,737,000
– 2017 total deaths: 2,788,500
– 2018 total deaths: 2,837,000
– 2019 total deaths: 2,882,500
– 2020 total deaths (proj.): 2,929,500

Notice the substantial increase each year, absent any named, attention-getting, Panic-creating flu-virus event through the 2010s (some bad flu-strains existed but no one noticed/cared). 2019 had +146,000 more total deaths than 2016, for example, and even +304,500 (!) over 2013.

2020 was projected to have even more, +351,000 deaths over 2013, an estimate made before anyone knew about Coronavirus.

The basic mechanisms for these big-looking increases is no mystery, and nothing to panic about (of course):

Aging population plus higher base population. Plus, some on the margins is due to the well-documented rise in so-called deaths of despair in Middle America, which includes drug-deaths; this part of the increase we SHOULD worry about, as certainly it is much more harmful than the current flu-virus pandemic, by any half-way objective measure. But about the rise of deaths of despair we hardly hear at all. No emergency measures, no martial law, hardly even any attention. Why?

Needless to say, the observed increase in deaths since 2013 far more than covers (exceeds) the total of number of deaths attributable to the 2020 coronavirus. The CoronaPanic-pushers of 2020 either don’t know or don’t care about this. It qualifies as “Context,” which is a heresy to Corona True Believers.

U.S. Death Rate 1950-2020:


27714 Allen, replying to Allen, 18, #217 of 586 🔗

In addition to my comment below (or above?) relating to the US if you wish to examine the “excess deaths” in Europe take a look at the latest graphs/numbers at the Euromo site. 24 countries are charted including the UK. It may take a few more weeks to get the full picture but exactly what some of us have been saying appears likely to be happening throughout the “hardest hit” countries including the UK.

If you take a look at the countries with the steep spikes (excess deaths) you will also note how quickly those spikes descend. Look back at the more rounded and longer in duration curves from 2017/18 e.g. and then compare overall numbers. In 2017/18 the time frame of “excess deaths” lasted far longer than the current season. The overall death count is likely to be similar- no change in “excess deaths” when averaged out over that longer time frame.

The reason for this concentrated spike in “excess deaths” has all to do with accelerated mass homicide of immune-vulnerable individuals- primarily, but not exclusively, those in nursing homes/care centers. These deaths were prematurely caused by government malfeasance if you want to be charitable- which I do not.

Now as we are looking at these figures in real time today we are seeing extraordinary lows in excess deaths- in the negative valuations. Take a look at France for but one example. The reason for this is that the “low hanging” fruit has been plucked and for the time being Death, so to speak, has not only stalled but doesn’t have the same number of “easy targets” to go after.

What we have had in short is bulk rate deaths in a concentrated time due to policy decisions by governments not due to some alien virus that landed from Venus. Some would say this is institutionalized murder- I stand in that camp.

27847 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Allen, -1, #218 of 586 🔗

What was the malfeasance enacted by Sweden, that was not manifest by its neighbours Denmark? Norway and Finland? The latter three showing zero trends in excess mortality throughout 2020?

27849 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to djaustin, 2, #219 of 586 🔗

Is this another of your BS items like the claim that the UK only reports hospital deaths in its Covid-19 stats (false) or that the UK only reports deaths as Covid-19 if there has been a positive test result (false) and that Belgium over-reports its Covid-19 stats by 50% (no source given). You need your own fact-checker site.

27854 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to djaustin, 1, #220 of 586 🔗

Is there any information on how the countries with low/normal excess death treated their regular medical cases? I’ve not seen much information on individual country policies with that regard. It would be interesting to know if countries with higher excess deaths prioritised COVID-19 to the detriment of other conditions.

27725 Bella, replying to Bella, 9, #221 of 586 🔗

Taken to doing a regular walk along the promenade to our devil-may-care wet fish shop who play lip service to three in a shop. And no masks are worn. It’s about three miles. Promenade packed, beach really busy, no antisocial distancing, no masks. And then, horror of horrors, a teenager coming towards me wearing a mask. And then another one.And then another. And then in twos and three all masked. And then I saw the placards. BLM. After about thirty had passed in dribs and drabs I reckoned 80% were white pubescent girls. Didn’t see a black skin. Some were about twelve years old holding signs that read ‘white silence is violence’ and ‘racism is a small dick issue’ (welI I suppose they should know.) After passing about the 50th I started getting really pissed off about the brainwashing. And then it dawned on me: the masks are part of the uniform. Cheered up after that and bought some great Manx kippers for breakfast.

27726 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella, 1, #222 of 586 🔗

Pay lip service not play…grrrr

27728 ▶▶ matt, replying to Bella, 8, #223 of 586 🔗

Also, if you were a teenager and you’d been cooped up in the house with your parents for 3 months, how hard would it be to persuade you to go out and do… pretty much anything with your friends?

27843 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 3, #224 of 586 🔗

If not wearing masks becomes the thing to prove you aren’t part of a BLM protest, that could work in our favour!

27731 GetaGrip, replying to GetaGrip, 24, #225 of 586 🔗

Greetings from The Peoples’ Republic of Scotia.

Interesting undistanced chat with a friend in the catering business who is in touch with the local pub-owners in our town.

So, only one is planning to ‘open’ in July. He has outside seating. Patrons will have to book a short time-limited slot, 1 beer each, distanced etc, then move on to allow for the next client. This is designed to maximise turnover by ensuring no-one sits nursing a pint for three hours, and allow minimum staff to client ratio.

I get all that and don’t blame him, but my group have already decided we won’t go, because it sounds crap.

The other pubs won’t open because they are small town pubs with very limited space. Their staff are currently furloughed, and as soon as the Gov contribution drops in August, the owners are unanimous in that it’s P45s all round.

The most optimistic publicans are thinking about September to re-open.
Which is about the time that airborne respiratory viruses (and why would Covid be any different) make their annual reappearance, so on current form, with no sign that the State’s control-fetish is wearing off, it’ll be Lockdown 2, The Sequel.

It feels like a fundamental part of who we are (and were) is being taken from us and pissed on by fanatics, frankly.

27733 ▶▶ annie, replying to GetaGrip, 14, #226 of 586 🔗

Everything us being taken from us.
Humans evolved to live in communities, close to one another. That’s what Aristotle meant when he said that ‘Man is a political animal’.
Take that away, and there’s nothing left.

27737 ▶▶ matt, replying to GetaGrip, 3, #227 of 586 🔗

British society is founded on the pub. Much more fundamentally than French society is founded on the cafe of the bistro.

I can’t imagine enjoying having to book a slot for a pint and having to leave after one, but I’ll do it if I must, just to keep some going.

To be fair, there are enough pubs that know me well enough that they’ll know I’m not going to nurse a pint, so I’ll probably get away with it.

27805 ▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to matt, 1, #228 of 586 🔗

I miss the pub the most. It s Saturday night and I should be fairly pissed by now and talking horseshit to all and sundry. I miss the people - even the ones I don t like!

27813 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to stevie119, 8, #229 of 586 🔗

I’m a well-socialised introvert. I really can’t stand to be shut up with anybody for any length of time, and no disrespect to my wife and kids, but that includes them.

My little weekend break from the world used to be to walk the dog across the park to my favourite pub, have a couple of pints (ok… maybe more. My wife has no idea how long it takes to drink a pint), just me and the dog and then walk him back.

That’s gone now. I don’t know if it will ever come back.

27735 HawkAnalyst, 2, #230 of 586 🔗
27736 HawkAnalyst, #231 of 586 🔗
27740 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #232 of 586 🔗

Broken promises and idle hands lead to political unrest


Timing is everything. Picking the right moments, working to deadlines; those “whens” have never been more important now that we are holed up, our whats and wheres all but gone. As dates of promised change sink into the mist – the contact tracing app’s “mid-May” rollout still absent in June, the 100,000-tests-per-day target slated for the end of April, by which stage it had been reached once – so, too, another this Thursday: the official 12-week point by which the Prime Minister assured us we would have successfully “turn[ed] the tide” on coronavirus. “When” has never been a more elastic term, as far as the Government has been concerned………………


But in 12 more weeks, when the end of the furlough scheme looms and the currently more abstract reality sets in – of Britain’s GDP dropping by a record 20.4 per cent in the first full month of lockdown, of the businesses that won’t reopen and jobs that won’t be returned to by workers of whom 6.4 million are on hiatus in England alone – the ire will find its way to those whose choices, or failure to make them, landed us here.
If the groundswell of action over the past fortnight is to impress anything upon the Government, let it be the message that people will no longer wait quietly when promises are not kept.

27752 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #233 of 586 🔗

The Tarquins and Jemimas jumping on the BLM bandwagon will be nothing compared to Joe Public who having lost his job or business as well as his home due to the lockdown and antisocial distancing might decide that he will have nothing to lose by rioting.

The government ignore this at their peril.

27743 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #234 of 586 🔗

Employers given 30 days to ‘confess’ to abusing furlough bailout scheme


The Government plans to give businesses a 30-day window of opportunity to confess to furlough fraud, after thousands of workers have reported their employers for cheating the system.
Nearly nine million people have been furloughed under the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme since March, costing the Government a staggering £19.6bn in payouts. Meanwhile, £7.5bn has been paid out to 2.6 million self-employed claimants during the same period.
New draft legislation is being rushed through Parliament and is expected to become law early next month as part of an initiative to target those submitting incorrect or fraudulent claims on behalf of employees.
In a draft legislation HM Revenue & Customs has warned employers that it will be able to charge a penalty for any deliberate non-compliance.
The Government’s furlough scheme was designed to step in and pay people’s wages in a bid to protect jobs amid the coronavirus fallout, however there are growing concerns that employers are taking advantage of the system.

27747 ▶▶ matt, replying to HawkAnalyst, #235 of 586 🔗

Hi Hawk – not sure I’m clear on what the alleged contravention is? Not arguing a point, just trying to understand.

27777 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 3, #236 of 586 🔗

One type of “fraud” I heard about was people getting furloughed but then their employers telling them to carry on working or they would get sacked. In other countries such as NL you were actually allowed or even encouraged to carry on working while furloughed.

It seems a bit dumb to have a rule that people aren’t allowed to work, although I get that the logic is that if employers want people to carry on working they should pay them themselves. But if furloughed staff aren’t allowed to work in many cases the employer might as well just sack them, and in many cases will once the furlough ends. So all you’re doing is delaying the inevitable while making it more expensive which is the story of the whole lockdown strategy anyway.

27784 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 3, #237 of 586 🔗

My first reaction is – well, if you have work for them to do, then obviously you should lay them yourselves and not ask the tax payer to do it.

But actually, it’s interesting. If companies with less revenue coming in could still have had more of their workforce productive, and more people could still have felt more useful, because they were working, might it have had less of a damaging effect on the economy as a whole?

27835 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 1, #238 of 586 🔗

I think so. In theory if people are working they’re creating the wealth that the whole economy is supposed to be based on.

Suppose you had a company that did something useful like make beer. You can’t afford to pay wages for a while because of all the covid crap. So under the UK system the taxpayer pays for your staff to do nothing for a while just in the hope that you don’t sack them.

Under the Dutch system the taxpayer still pays. The difference is the staff are still making beer instead of getting so bored of Netflix they start attacking statues. When the pubs reopen they can sell all this beer nice and cheap and everyone is happy. Maybe the company makes more profit (through saving on wages) but so what– the government also gets more tax receipts.

I think to be eligible the company has to show the government how much revenue it has actually lost. There’s still scope for fraud– the company could deliberately lose revenue by buying a new fleet of helicopters it doesn’t really need– but at least they’re buying stuff and doing things. To end up with a system where just carrying on doing whatever useful job you were doing before suddenly becomes fraud seems all wrong. In theory they shouldn’t furlough you if they still need you but it’s never that black and white in real life. The managers have to guess at how bad and how mad things will get, decide whom to furlough, half the time they won’t understand how that’s disrupting whatever project they were working on, etc., etc. Much better to encourage the businesses to keep running.

27751 ▶▶ Mark, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #239 of 586 🔗

It’s not impossible that we could face a general breakdown of order, between the unfolding self-inflicted economic damage and the general failure of authority to stand up to leftist cultural revolutionary zealots. Government is rapidly losing credibility and there are not sufficient police to control a general outbreak of disorder. That way, martial law and the formation of militias for self defence awaits.

Formerly inconceivable, but then again, so was the decision to voluntarily break our economy with the lockdown.

Not saying it’s likely, but it is now the worst credible case. Until this year, it wasn’t even a credible possibility.

27756 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 4, #240 of 586 🔗

I really don’t want to step into this territory, but…

The government is not civil society. We have seen that the police are still ready and willing to step in to actually police when the circumstances are right. I’m nervous that there is a genuine prospect of competing viewpoints battling it out in the street, but I’m optimistic that it will be controlled if it happens.

Whether the government can regain their own credibility is a different question. They’ve lost it forever as far as I’m concerned, but it turns out many are more credulous than those that are here.

27764 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 5, #241 of 586 🔗

Like I said, it’s not likely, but I feel it’s no longer inconceivable, as the summer wears on and the true scale of our self harm starts to impact on people.

What we are seeing at the moment is the situation when for most people times really aren’t particularly bad.

27770 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #242 of 586 🔗

Frankly, it’s an unprecedented (sorry – I promised myself I wouldn’t use that word again) situation. People are (I hope) hugely frustrated, and likely to become more so as the new reality reality bites over the next 3 months or so. We did all of that for _this_?

But at the same time, people have never been so cocooned and wrapped up in their own domestic world at any time in the last century-and-a-half at least. Is the instinct again to stand at the mouth of the cave and fend off the outsiders?

So you’re right, not impossible and far more possible than it would have been 6 months ago.

27782 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 5, #243 of 586 🔗

I’m not personally in the habit of worrying too much about apocalyptic scenarios. Seen plenty in my lifetime: Y2k, peak oil, global famine, climate hysteria, first the new ice age and now the burning earth . I’m sure there were others I can’t bring to mind atm. All pretty much unrealistic as far as I was concerned. Nuclear war – pretty realistic but a necessary evil we just have to live with.

But I am a little uneasy at the moment.

Could go either way, though. Real hardship could focus people’s minds on real issues and distract from the ideological nonsense, or it could lead to angry mobs confronting each other. Hard to know atm.

27785 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 3, #244 of 586 🔗

I’d guess you’ve got 5 – maybe 10 – years on me. I’ve also seen all of that stuff, and honestly I’m nostalgic for the days when it was as simple as “there’s us and there’s them and at any minute, somebody could be stupid enough to press the button.”

27794 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #245 of 586 🔗

Four minutes . Those were the days, eh…?

27800 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, #246 of 586 🔗

I remember my Times Historical Atlas had a full page info graphic in the last few pages comparing Warsaw Pact and NATO forces and thinking “we’re screwed”

27808 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #247 of 586 🔗

Deterrence, baby! Mutually Assured Destruction. A proven method.

I once spent a couple of weeks playing this game through with a friend.Quite educational. It’s a very different world now, obviously, and if things kick off it’ll be on the other side of the world.

27820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, #248 of 586 🔗

MAD worked so well to stop the First World War, of course.

27827 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #249 of 586 🔗

I don’t think leaders take destruction that seriously when it doesn’t involve thermonuclear warheads landing on their families and even the surviving winners quite likely emerging into an irradiated wasteland.

Prior to nuclear weapons, leaders could always persuade themselves that they and theirs would continue somehow. Either they would win or they would survive a defeat. Nuclear weapons changed everything, especially once they were on ICBMs with second strike capabilities. Before them, there was no A in the MAD.

But this was a real argument back then. All pretty academic now, though I suppose it will grow in importance again over time, but in a very different technological context.

27830 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #250 of 586 🔗

A fair point. But looking back on the Cold War, with a few decades’ worth of cold flannel on my forehead, I can’t help but think that the leaders – in the latter stages, at least- never really thought it would come to that. It was all a bit of a game. I always think back to Sir Humphrey explaining to Jim Hacker why he would never actually push the button anyway.

27836 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #251 of 586 🔗

Many a true word. Yes Minister and Yes PM seem very apt these days, except that now the civil servants and advisors are as clueless as the politicians.

It’s true that neither side had any intention of kicking off a war (after all, MAD). The danger was always from a mix of misunderstanding and bravado. Something like Able Archer plus an over-reaction or two. Not likely, but not impossible, either, given the generally hair trigger situation at times.

27825 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Mark, #252 of 586 🔗

Ans still have time to boil an egg!

27829 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to stevie119, #253 of 586 🔗

Depends how you like your eggs

27795 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Mark, 2, #254 of 586 🔗

Surprised you didn’t mention AIDS. We were all going to die then if the virus became airborne. Still remember the very BBC programme where they said this (and that was when the BBC still had some respect – just)

27814 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella, #255 of 586 🔗

I don’t remember that one. I think originally my crowd just pretty much ignored AIDS as an issue for other people, and probably just missed the airborne hypothesis you mention.

27839 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bella, -1, #256 of 586 🔗

Still might happen… This is why if I was going to pick a virus to eradicate, HIV would be high on the list. It is treatable now if you can afford the drugs but you don’t want something that goes around infecting and disabling people’s immune systems out there evolving if you can help it.

27883 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella, 1, #257 of 586 🔗

‘AIDS – don’t die if ignorance!’
Well, the economy’s just died if ignorance, with the AID of the Covimorons.

27755 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #258 of 586 🔗

Rushing it through so they can punish businesses intending to lay off employees once furlough ends. Seems like it could be an impossible position for some companies that have made use of furlough but won’t have a viable business at the end of this.

27760 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, #259 of 586 🔗

That’s why I ask the question – I’m not sure that’s what it’s saying and I hope it isn’t. A company could have furloughed with the best of intentions, only to discover that the economic situation has become far worse than they anticipated at the time. These firms should not be punished for that or it will just make the whole thing even worse.

If there are employers who have cynically abused the furlough, they should be held to account, but I can’t quite see how you pick them out from those who acted in good faith and now have to deal with circumstances.

27783 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 1, #260 of 586 🔗

There will be some companies that have used the furlough scheme but kept their employees working which is clearly fraudulant. But then there will be slightly greyer areas such as the situation mentioned above. As with most rushed legislation there will be intended and unintended consequences.

27789 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #261 of 586 🔗

As with all legislation.

Sorry – had to fix that for you.

27817 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to matt, 4, #262 of 586 🔗

Have I missed something here?
Are the planned new rules saying you can’t make redundant someone you’ve furloughed?
Because all then closed businesses went into the furlough scheme assuming it was to be a short-term disruption.
None can have assumed that, 12 weeks later, we were no nearer to getting back to business. Those businesses will be biting the redundancy bullet now and saying “hope to re-employ some – 25% – of you when we can properly reopen”.
With the bigger firms (who need to give more notice of redundancy) that’s happening now – BP, British Airways, Rolls Royce, Centrica etc etc. With smaller firms it will happen in the next few weeks.
Just in time for a riotous summer for disaffected youth.

27819 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #263 of 586 🔗

They’ll be able to get away with it by un-furloughing them, letting them work a few weeks, then making them redundant.

27823 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #264 of 586 🔗

I don’t think you’re missing anything. There was nothing conditional in the furlough scheme saying you mustn’t make people redundant. I’d be surprised if they introduce something in retrospect and even more surprised if anything introduced retrospectively survived the first court case.

27867 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #265 of 586 🔗

The government imposed the lock-down, so they should pay for it.
The government only wants people to work from home IF the employer will pay them. But if the employer isn’t making any sales because of the lock-down, the company is effectively just burning through its reserves (if it has any).
Is the government so thick that it doesn’t realize that even though people like me can work from home, that doesn’t mean our jobs aren’t connected to the rest of the economy or aren’t at risk like other jobs (e.g. hairdressing)? For lots of people working from home (including myself), their jobs are at risk because the industries they work in require the country to be functioning normally rather than being locked down.

28001 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Jonathan Castro, #266 of 586 🔗

Agree, but it is our tax money. The Government is gambling with our tax money and there is NO money tree.

27745 HawkAnalyst, 1, #267 of 586 🔗

Scotland had a lockdown culture long before Covid


Whatever the truth of the threat we face from coronavirus, it is always worth bearing in mind that the way science is understood and used is often determined by the prevailing political and cultural norms. For example, one of the key political trends of the past two decades has been the rise and rise of what is called the ‘politics of behaviour’.
The politics of behaviour is a New Labour invention. It has been adopted by all the political parties but is most wholeheartedly embraced by self-proclaimed ‘progressives’. Developed as a form of micro-politics that obsesses about little things, it is also a form of politics that has infected the regional assemblies most of all. If you want to know what will be banned next, it is always advisable to check out what’s going on in the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament. This helps to explain why up here in Scotland, the baby steps we are taking out of the lockdown are even more babyish than in England.

27749 HawkAnalyst, 1, #268 of 586 🔗

CDC reminds every public event is Covid-19 risk… after weeks of mass protests & just as Trump is set to hold own rally


But as US President Donald Trump prepares to hold his own campaign rally, the first since the pandemic took hold in the country, the CDC has issued a new guidance for mass gatherings, “strongly” encouraging participants to don masks and take other precautions. Pressed by reporters to specify whether the advice applied to political rallies, presumably with the president in mind, Butler would only say that the recommendations are “not commands.”

The organizers of the Trump rally, set for Tulsa, Oklahoma next week, have asked attendees to sign a waiver acknowledging that “an inherent risk of exposure to Covid-19 exists in any public place where people are present” and to agree not to hold the campaign liable for any “illness or injury” that may result. In stark contrast to the George Floyd protests, the upcoming rally has already generated a spate of negative headlines, suggesting the event will expose thousands to the virus and drive a surge in cases.

27753 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #269 of 586 🔗

We are damaging a generation of children

The closure of schools was a classic of its kind. The state of scientific knowledge when the decision was made can be found in a survey of the scientific literature by a team of child health experts and epidemiologists, which appeared not long afterwards in T he Lancet . They pointed out that almost all assessments of the impact of school closures were based on experience with flu, whereas Covid-19 had a much more limited clinical impact on children of school age. They concluded that the scientific material available to support school closure to combat Covid-19 was “very weak”
The Government’s scientific advisers had originally opposed school closure, but in the end went along with it on the basis that it might help, who knows? This did not give the politicians much to be guided by. But it hardly mattered. Their decision was not guided by science. It was a response to public pressure. People have little faith in politicians, but unbounded confidence in the state. They assume far too readily that there is some positive action that ministers can usefully take if they are sufficiently energetic and wise and spend enough money. More action is always the answer, leaving well alone is not an option. The problem is that public opinion is not much of an alibi. It is fickle, as politicians are now discovering. If things go wrong, the public do not blame the concept, only the execution. The problem has been aggravated by two aspects of the Government’s response.


The Government has now admitted what has always been obvious, that Covid-19 is likely to be endemic in our population long-term, unless an effective vaccine is found. Sooner or later, we are going to have to live with it. Sooner or later, whatever risk is involved in reopening schools will have to be faced. For our children and grandchildren, however, there is an immense difference between sooner and later.

27775 ▶▶ matt, replying to HawkAnalyst, 16, #270 of 586 🔗

My real problem here is that we always knew this. Less than a week before schools were closed, the SAGE advisors were standing in the press briefing saying that this wasn’t a disease that affected children and that there was no obvious need to close schools.

I strongly object to schools having been closed in the first place, but I’m disgusted by the teachers unions that have insisted on keeping them closed, and in Labour, who have pulled the strings of the teachers unions while offering to “work with the government” to find a solution. Morally abhorrent.

27793 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 10, #271 of 586 🔗

If you look at the unions’ Twitter traffic around 17 March, there was a de facto ‘call to arms’. They were primed and ready to go when the ICL death model came out. At son’s school, various teachers were already self isolating, even though we only had one or two confirmed positive cases in the entire county. Of course, at school registration, the usual suspects (teenage lads) started to cough, and were duly sent home. The hysterical Mumsnet-types in and around London had already withdrawn their kids from school – presumably so they could clear out the shops of toilet rolls and the bank machines of cash. Schools should never have been closed, and cancelling GCSEs and A Levels was a national disgrace that has already led to suicides within the cohort. Of course, teachers unions have been agitating for GCSEs to be cancelled for a couple of years now and they didn’t take long to seize that opportunity. A government with a spine would have faced them down, but then what kind of government has Gavin Williamson as a Cabinet minister.

27797 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 23, #272 of 586 🔗

I was talking to an acquaintance in a different neighbourhood of the inter web a week or so before schools were due to reopen for almost nobody. She said in horror “you don’t think schools should open, do you??? (Maybe a few more question marks and an exclamation mark or two).

She then went on to tell me that a friend of hers who worked at Great Ormond St knew what was “really going on” with kids and this virus.


I live (now) in London and of the 15 kids who should be in my younger boy’s “bubble”, 7 have turned up. Meanwhile (excuse the shouting) ABSOLUTELY NOBODY IN LONDON HAS THE BLOODY THING.

Cancelling GCSEs and A Levels was ridiculous and indefensible. Speaking as someone who never did any homework but was good at exams, my life would have been ruined if I’d been in that year. Taking children out of school when there was no evidence that they became sick with the virus and no evidence that they were responsible for spreading the virus was indefensible. Still more so in retrospect, now there’s positive evidence that they don’t and they aren’t. Keeping schools mostly closed and imposing stupid restrictions on the poor items who have been through the strangest period of time that any generation of human beings have been through… is indefensible.

I’m not an activist at heart. But my god, this makes me angry.

27798 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 1, #273 of 586 🔗

“Items” = “mites”. I blame autocorrect

27816 ▶▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to matt, #274 of 586 🔗

Me too. Very angry.

27821 ▶▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to matt, #275 of 586 🔗

Your GOSH contact will doubtless have been concerned about Kawasaki disease, very rare but linked to Covid for children.

27824 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to BTLnewbie, #276 of 586 🔗

Yes. Or something like.

It’s – what – 2 cases so far?

27881 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, #277 of 586 🔗

Three, each with serious co-morbidities and each greeted with shrieks of glee by the foul Covimedia.

27872 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #278 of 586 🔗

An attempt has been made to link it but my understanding was that there is not good evidence for this, the actual cause is not really understood, it may be linked to viral diseases not just covid but this is more hypothesis then hard fact.

27815 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #279 of 586 🔗

I agree. I was really surprised when they cancelled exams so soon, it seemed so premature. They’ve ruined the lives of thousands and most people just can’t see it. It’s infuriating!

27882 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Moomin, 2, #280 of 586 🔗

I’m an examiner, have been for aeons. The exam boards panicked way before the l.d. I’m out of pocket by a couple of thousand pounds. But that’s nothing compared with the injustice to kids, who will be judged on grade orecictions that are utterly unreliable, and on the partofu scrupulous schools, grossly inflated. Pupils in scrupulous schools will lose out on a colossal scale.
Incidentally, my board (Cambridge) also cancelled international exams, blasting the hopes and negating the efforts of hundreds of thousands of pupils and teachers world wide.

27840 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #281 of 586 🔗

The odd thing with the idea that they are merely bowing to public pressure is that we have a military information warfare unit at the same time working to control public opinion. We also have mainstream social media platforms carefully controlling public debate. We have the MSM creating the panic in the first place. It makes it hard to take seriously the idea that this was all merely a result of public reaction it seems that reaction was engineered and controlled.

27754 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #282 of 586 🔗

A district of Beijing was on a “wartime” footing and the capital banned tourism on Saturday after a cluster of novel coronavirus infections centred around a major wholesale market sparked fears of a new wave of Covid-19.


27758 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #283 of 586 🔗

I’m very curious as to why China decided to lockdown at all when this started unless they actually had some prior knowledge of it that nobody is aware of even now.

27773 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #284 of 586 🔗

I wouldn’t put it down to any more than a brutal, oppressive regime reacting with brutally oppressive measure when given half a chance.

27812 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, #285 of 586 🔗

Yes, and no. I’ve always thought that this ‘disease’ or something very much like it, was around in China way before the rest of the world knew about it – They got it into the lab to research it, it escaped, the rest is history.

That’s a big part of why THEY panicked – they knew about it but not ENOUGH about what would happen in a mass outbreak. Weirdly I think they’d’ve been less likely to react how they did if they knew absolutely nothing. A little knowledge is often more dangerous than none at all. – Hey, look at our lot. The difference being of course China has the power and the impetus to weld its citizens into their apartments. Luckily our governments aren’t there yet.

27841 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Farinances, 1, #286 of 586 🔗

“Weirdly I think they’d’ve been less likely to react how they did if they knew absolutely nothing. A little knowledge is often more dangerous than none at all”

That was exactly my thinking. If it was completely new they ‘d be more likely to have observed it and reacted accordingly. There’d be little reason or justification to jump straight to a lockdown with zero knowledge.

27880 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, #287 of 586 🔗

A brutal, oppressive regime? Like ours?

27898 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to matt, #288 of 586 🔗

I still have nightmares about the news footage of Wuhan residents being forcibly shut into their high rise flats and the doors being welded closed. I don’t think I will ever forget that. If I ever had any desire to visit China, it went straight out of the window after that.

27774 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #289 of 586 🔗

They lockdown. The WHO recommends every other country follows China’s lead. Almost as if it was all planned, maybe based around a tabletop simulation.

Oh wait.

27776 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark H, 1, #290 of 586 🔗

The WHO’s reaction throughout has been “you did what? Oh right. That’s a thing? Ok, let’s tell everyone to do that.” And then moving on to the next thing next week.

Any grand master plan that involves collusion from the WHO loses credibility out of the gate as far as I’m concerned.

27803 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 2, #291 of 586 🔗

The only grand plan involving them is them sniffing China’s farts and following wherever the trail leads

27759 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #292 of 586 🔗


In this graph week 40-18 2019-2020 you can hardly see the Covid-19 pandemic in Sweden’s excess deaths. In fact,the third lowest excess deaths in 20 years.
Compare this with deaths attributed to Spanish flu in the link below
“34 000 people died during 1 year between July 1918 and July 1919 and altogether around 37 000 died before the pandemic was considered over.”
This was also in a population of 5 million compared to 10 million in Sweden now. It is easy to imagine what an enormous spike of excess deaths we would have compared to Covid-19 which can’t be noted in total excess death. Pandemics are different.


This more historic article about flu pandemics in Sweden is a bit wordy but have some interesting points especially about the last Swineflu pandemic 2009. This was problematic in being both extremely mild and on the other hand a huge response in the population for the vaccine which caused severe side effects. This last thing might explain Sweden’s present response to Covid-19 and scepticism of any useful vaccine being available and also the idea of waiting for it.

27905 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #293 of 586 🔗

The article is indeed “wordy” but I thought it worth copying here a couple of paras re the effect of the vaccine for swine flu (especially the final sentence):

“Immediately after the pandemic was declared by the WHO in June 2009, there was a strong demand for vaccine by the public in Sweden, even though there had been only a few influenza cases during the summer months. Polls showed that between 65% and 70% of the population intended to get vaccinated. When the vaccine finally arrived from the manufacturers in the beginning of October, the epidemic had almost peaked. About 60% of the population still took the vaccine according to recommendations from the authorities, and the uptake was high in all age groups except for young adults. [………..].

This context of securitisation and the anticipation of a severe pandemic contrasted with the actual mildness of the Swine flu; only about 10–12% of the population was affected and just over 30 influenza-attributable deaths were recorded in 2009, and roughly the same number in 2010. More disturbingly, in Sweden the side effects of the mass vaccination—>300 cases of narcolepsy in children and adolescents—overshadowed the pandemic fatalities”

27765 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #294 of 586 🔗

Ha I tried to share the link about big Pharma, Horton and the Lancet corruption with a friend and that nice guy Mr Zuckerburg ‘s company Facebook would’nt let me . Censorship in action. Mr Zuckerburg can censor opinions he doesnt like. This is Covid1984 in action.

27767 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #295 of 586 🔗

Now that Twitter has unblocked ZeroHedge, you could try that platform instead?

27768 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 19, #296 of 586 🔗

The Govt are in total disarray. A story will come out tomorrow which will expose an extraordinary lie.
5:50 pm · 13 Jun 2020 Simon Dolan
Twitter from Simon Dolan

27769 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to swedenborg, 6, #297 of 586 🔗

Whoa that sounds interesting!

27771 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to swedenborg, 3, #298 of 586 🔗


27779 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to swedenborg, 4, #299 of 586 🔗

I love the smell of vindication in the morning 😊

27787 ▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, 1, #300 of 586 🔗

Shouldn’t tomorrow’s front pages be put by now? They don’t seem to be though

27889 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, #302 of 586 🔗

That story’s been kicking around for a little while. It’s embarrassing, but hardly watergate.

27899 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Nobody2020, #303 of 586 🔗

Whilst that isn’t good, I can’t see it as a major story?

27838 ▶▶ Nic, replying to swedenborg, 2, #304 of 586 🔗

Just lift the lockdown now it’s a sad joke please let us have a life

27865 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Nic, 2, #305 of 586 🔗

Lift it right now, we need our lives back!

27864 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to swedenborg, #306 of 586 🔗

Hope you’re right

27790 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 6, #307 of 586 🔗

Toby, it would be great if you could ask J.K Rowling to make a sizeable contribution to the Free Speech Union. It might be to her benefit and all of us.

27878 ▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, 1, #308 of 586 🔗

In her books she shows ability to create characters who are truly evil. Not so much Voldemort, who’s on a superhuman, mythical scale and so, oddly, less frightening,
but people like Bella Lestrange, Umbridge and the Malfoys. If she hadn’t hitherto met such people in real life, she has now.

27791 Victoria, 4, #309 of 586 🔗

Deconstructing Bill Gates’ Agenda https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/06/13/bill-gates-agenda.aspx

  • Gates has used his staggering wealth to buy control , and he’s done it under the cloak of “charity.” A significant piece of that control is the control over population growth. Gates’ family also has a long history of supporting eugenics
  • According to Gates, the global population could be lowered by 10% to 15% if we “do a really great job on new vaccines, health care [and] reproductive health services.” His theory is that as health improves, families opt to have fewer children
  • In 2017, Gavi, The Vaccine Alliance founded by the Gates Foundation in partnership with the WHO , the World Bank and vaccine manufacturers — decided to provide every child with a digital biometric identity to ensure 100% vaccin e coverage
  • Gates has also invested in the development and implementation of biometric identification programs tied in with digital currencies
  • Ultimately, the plan is to connect everything together our identity, finances, medical data, vaccine records and more — at which point we will be 100% enslaved

 It’s Time to See the Global Agenda for What It Is

“We cannot expect an answer about Bill Gates true motives to come from Gates himself. By this point the question of Bill Gates’ intentions has been buried under the combined weight of hundreds of millions of dollars of paid PR spin,” Corbett says.

We must confront the possibility that this quest for control comes not from a selfless spirit of generosity that never seemed to exist before he became a multi-billionaire, but from the same drive for money, the same desire for domination and the same sense of superiority that motivated him on his way up the corporate ladder.

But if the answer to the question “Who is Bill Gates” is “Bill Gates is a eugenicist,” that tells us some important things about the world that we are living in … If Bill Gates is a eugenicist, driven by a belief in the superiority of himself and his fellow wealthy elitists, then what we are facing is not one man, or even one family, but an ideology.

This is not a trivial point. One man, whatever his wealth, can be stopped easily enough. But even if Bill Gates were to be thrown in jail tomorrow, the agenda that has already been set in motion would continue without missing a beat.

An entire infrastructure of researchers, labs, corporations, governmental agencies and public health bodies exists … driven by the belief of all those millions of people working for these various entities that they are truly working in the best interest of the people.

No, an ideology cannot be stopped by stopping one man. It can only be stopped when enough people learn the truth about this agenda and the world of total, pervasive control that is coming into view. If you have watched all four parts of this exploration on Bill Gates, then you are now one of the most informed people on the planet about the true nature of this agenda …

If you have made it this far, it is incumbent on you to help inoculate those around you against the corrupt ideology of Bill Gates and all those who seek to control the population of the world . You must help to spread this information so that others have a chance to see the bigger picture and decide for themselves whether they are willing to roll up their sleeves and accept what is coming, or not.”

27792 Paul, replying to Paul, 8, #310 of 586 🔗

Our daughter works at the local hospital and has just been told that all staff have to wear a face mask at all times and in all areas from Monday,more lunacy and she isn’t very pleased,she knows how bad they are for you.Since this virus madness began she has had to wear full PPE or a mask in certain areas,intensive care,the elderly ward and when with any vulnerable patients which seems reasonable,but why suddenly require one for the whole hospital at this stage ?.

27809 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Paul, 4, #311 of 586 🔗


27811 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 3, #312 of 586 🔗

Won’t that be problematic for communication as well as the hazards associated with lack of oxygen and being forced to breathe your own CO2?

27863 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Paul, 2, #313 of 586 🔗

control it is

27879 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #314 of 586 🔗

And of providing reassurance to the zombies. Remember that a zombie knows that everybody wpexcept him/herself is Covinfected.

27806 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 13, #315 of 586 🔗

I know it’s only the Daily Telegraph, but an article entitled “What the post-Covid home could look like” makes my heart sink. How about “exactly the same as a pre-Covid home because we’ll all be getting back to normal any day now so why would anything need to be any different in any way whatever?”

Almost as bad as any reference to the “new normal”.


27810 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #316 of 586 🔗

We’re all hygiene-obsessive germophobes now.

(Present company excepted, perhaps.)

27850 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, 1, #317 of 586 🔗

Howard Hughes! Thou shouldst be living in this hour!!

27876 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 1, #318 of 586 🔗

Yes, otherwise we wouldn’t be here.

27831 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #319 of 586 🔗

The article is dross of the highest order. Don’t bother reading it.

27886 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Tenchy, #320 of 586 🔗

Too late!

27999 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #321 of 586 🔗

Sadly homes that are too clean lead to illness. We need to be exposed to ‘dirt’ to build our immune systems.

Do NOT use anti-bacterial soaps and gels, it leads to antibiotic resistance. Also keep in mind that anti-bacterial dispensers in shops are useless, as Covid-19 is a virus and not bacteria.

27826 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 9, #322 of 586 🔗

STUDIES: 60% of people naturally RESISTANT to SARS-COV2


A new study has found that Sars-Cov-2, the virus linked to Covid19, maybe five times more widespread than previously thought, and therefore five times less deadly .
The research, conducted by a team of scientists at the University Hospital in Zurich, is titled: “Systemic and mucosal antibody secretion specific to SARS-CoV-2 during mild versus severe COVID-19” , and found that Sars-Cov-2-specific antibodies only appear in the most severe cases, or about 1 out of 5.
In other words, large numbers of people may be immune or resistant to this virus because they have already been infected by other coronaviruses.
This may not be surprising, given the close relationship between most coronaviruses, but it is a further indicator that this virus, known to be harmless in the vast majority of cases, is neither especially unique nor especially dangerous.
The evidence continues to mount that the original estimates of the danger posed by this virus were massively exaggerated.

27845 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #323 of 586 🔗

In other words all our wonderful experts have been operating on a completely false set of assumptions…we have been jumping through hoops like circus dogs for no good reason other than the circus master thought it would be good for us! Time to close down the circus.

27852 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to OKUK, 1, #324 of 586 🔗

Unfortunately the way many scientists work/think is that they are unlikely to stick their knecks out without irrefutable proof of a theory. Without a positive antibody test they will assume there is no immunity. Hence they’ll stick to what the books tell them unless somebody can prove them wrong.

This is why we need politicians with balls (no it’s not sexist). People who can make tough decisions and accept responsibility knowing that 100% certainty is a rare privilege. Imagine if this was a real war and no decision could be made unless it was guaranteed that nobody would die.

27861 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #325 of 586 🔗

There is no chance of them making tough decisions as long as they allow policy to be dictated by the media. Trump, at least understands you cannot appease the media…they will simply bite off your hand if you try and pat them on the head, unless that is you are prepared to walk them where they want to walk.

And in the UK the media is now an absolute disgrace….Sky is saturated with Far Left spokespeople and people stirring up racial hatred and social division. I saw a “Novara Media” troll denounce Farage as racist tonight. No intervention from the presenter. Outrageous. Novara Media is visited by virtually no one. It audience is tiny.

27866 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #326 of 586 🔗

The one thing I’m thankful for every day is that it’s not an ACTUAL plague. At least we get a dry run with the common cold. Imagine the alternative.

27869 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Farinances, #327 of 586 🔗

I try not to imagine the alternative, but it’s hard not to

28003 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Farinances, #328 of 586 🔗

I don’t think many of us would be complaining as we are if our friends and neighbours were literally dying in the streets.

If it was the plague I would seriously consider carrying a mask in my pocket 😉

27832 HawkAnalyst, 2, #329 of 586 🔗

Dutch Scientist Willem Engel Speaks Up – A Crisis In Science, Lockdown Is A Disgrace


27837 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #330 of 586 🔗

Shoppers Brawl Over One-Way Arrows At Store

one-way aisles have been established to allow patrons to more easily maintain a six-foot distance from other individuals.
Cops say that Sims was upset upon spotting Turner going the wrong way in an aisle.

27900 ▶▶ Cassandra, replying to HawkAnalyst, #331 of 586 🔗

Sims feels like an apt name. Sometimes I get the impression we’re stuck in a version of the game run by a sadistic teenager.

27842 Nic, replying to Nic, 11, #332 of 586 🔗

All the trouble today in the country nothing g to do with racism,
It’s the 3 month lockdown pent up energy anger for god sake stop it now we have had enough

27857 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Nic, 4, #333 of 586 🔗

I agree its being locked up.for 3 months and I want to explode!

27860 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nic, 2, #334 of 586 🔗

Are you aware that you just agreed with yourself?

27862 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #335 of 586 🔗

I’m more worried about the occasions when I don’t agree with myself! 🙂

27871 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to OKUK, #336 of 586 🔗

Under lockdown surely it would get a bit boring if you always agreed with yourself.

27875 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #337 of 586 🔗

Who else is there to agree with?

27897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to annie, 1, #338 of 586 🔗

I find I do a lot of meandering round the house muttering to myself nowadays, both disagreeing and agreeing with myself. I blame lockdown 😄

27874 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nic, 2, #339 of 586 🔗

You often get riots in the course of a long, hot summer, I’m afraid. It brings out the lice that are always lurking in society.
Presumably the only reason why shops aren’t currently being looted is that there us ni access to thrm and nothing in them to loot.
Incidentally, where’s the Covispike that was supposed to result from people going to the beach and committing other crimes? ( Obviously violent rioting doesn’t count as a. crime.)

27846 swedenborg, 2, #340 of 586 🔗

HCQ use and CFR in different countries. Some of the countries in green (use of HCQ) might not have peaked yet so their CFR might get higher but several countries with big outbreaks are now clearly declining like Turkey.
The jury is still out whether HCQ is effective but it is cheap 40 cents per day. Big Pharma want to sell Remdesvir price see below
“For context, one non-profit that evaluates drug costs says it costs about $9.32 to manufacture a 10-day course of remdesivir treatment for one patient. Calculating the cost of development and trials, the Institute for Clinical and Economic Review says Gilead could charge as little as $390 for the drug. But Wall Street analysts are on an entirely different page, suggesting a price between $5,000 to $10,000, leading to billions in profits.”
And the left wing media etc questioning this and investigating Big Pharma’s control of the handling of the pandemic???

27848 Hopeful, replying to Hopeful, 7, #341 of 586 🔗

There must be some people in government/civil service/msm who know that covid19 is not the plague. Similarly, some among them must be aware of the plethora of negative impacts of the lockdown. So, lumping all the actors in this scam together, and accepting that there are various agendas being played out under cover of covid I have come to realise something.
I apologise in advance if it’s obvious to others but we all have our own process of deduction to work through.
Knowing now just how far the tentacles of Bill Gates reach into our government, academia and pharma, and having seen how deferential Boris et al, and the BBC are to him, I think I know when our lockdown might end. It will end when Bill announces his vaccine is ready. Only it won’t be a vaccine. It’ll be a “cybervac”. It’ll be given to the elderly first not because they want to care for the elderly but because they want to dispose of them. Remember how they responded to care homes both here and in some American states.
I’m an ordinary person trying very hard to be positive, to keep my emotions in check, and to stay receptive to new information, different opinions. That said I would like to start hearing about possible solutions. How, for example, can Bill Global sorry Gates, be prevented from micro-chipping us, infecting us with viruses and doing all manner of scary sci-fi stuff on people? What can be done about those thought to be really running this country? Ideas anyone?

27895 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Hopeful, #342 of 586 🔗

I’m afraid I have no idea – and that does frighten me. Bill Gates has always been a megalomaniac and a nasty piece of work ever since the early days of Microsoft.

27908 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hopeful, -1, #343 of 586 🔗

Logically, either it is not the plague, or else ‘they’ already have a cure/vaccine. Even a megalomaniac does not create a virus that is so dangerous and infectious that the creator himself/herself might be at risk being infected and dying. Bill Gates has been out and about meeting people – if the virus was *that* dangerous and there really was no cure apart from a vaccine then he would be holed up in his home, worried he might also die. The guy is in the ‘at risk’ age category himself! Yet he shows no sign of worry re his own personal health, is never masked – why? Because he *knows* this is not the plague.. This is all about long-term population monitoring and control – we know that the EU have been planning for immunity passports since at least as early as 2018.

27858 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Winston Smith, 12, #345 of 586 🔗

He’ll have to do a lot more than that to re-earn my respect. He could start by stopping his pandering towards Far Left fascism.

27859 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #346 of 586 🔗

I think it’s inevitable and maybe even planned. I semi joked a while back that they would roll back on a lot of things once people have been tortured enough to be begging for release. I think I called it the darks arts in manipulating people for optimum response.

27870 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #347 of 586 🔗

So they’re only looking at the economy now ? They’re all useless!

27936 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Winston Smith, #348 of 586 🔗

With Simon Dolan’s court case looming, particularly the part about schools shutting unnecessarily, he has to make it possible for them to fully open asap..

27868 sam, #349 of 586 🔗

Wonder if this lot have anything to do wiht whats going on??
We Assemble MovementsFrom grassroots organizations to advocacy groups, we seed the narratives and gather the audience you desire. When your strategy demands paid protest, we organize and bring it to life.

27877 BobT, replying to BobT, 25, #350 of 586 🔗

My view from the outside from an Englishman who lives overseas and has done for many years.

The reason behind the UK voting to leave the EU was that a little more than half the people were fed up of being subject to rules and regulations imposed by others. The British and especially the Scots love rules and love to abide by them whereas the French were under the same rules but they broke and ignored them so the EU works for them but not you.

Its not just the EU, but slowly the UK government themselves have imposed more and more rules on their people in the name of safety or ‘security’. Take, for example, the HSE which imposes rules which are supposed to make people ‘safer’ yet the research shows that the only thing that these rules achieve is to create a bureaucracy and set up a system for everyone to cover their backsides which does nothing to reduce the actual rate of industrial accidents. Not just HSE but absolutely every part of life and business has been regulated to the point where innovation has become stifled. The state run media along with the herd led social media means that even free thinking is stifled. My felow countymen, you need to throw off your self imposed shackles.

More than that, the rules ensure that no young person can do what I did 50 years ago. I started a construction business with just my own skills and with no money. Now, a similar young person would have no chance of winning a building contract without having licenses, a corporate status with years of history, a 500 page health and safety policy along with a team of employees to enforce it. To do what I did you would need to beg from investors to achieve all this and then find further financial backing to be able to establish a performance bond and all the other requirements. In other words your young people are denied opportunity and, even if they did beg for money they then become beholden to their investors and the wealth is further concentrated in the hands of the rich. You need to throw off the shackles of your young people.

Imagine, now that with the lack of opportunity for the entrepenurial young people I described above but added to that that there is no longer any guarantee of a job even if you have worked your ass off to amass a bunch of qualifications, where even a masters or a doctorate will not cut it, young people are going to be frustrated and angry. Now, add to that that their natural freedoms, their eductation, their ability to socialise and even have sex has been taken away by this government imposed lockdown you had better understand that the young are going to protest and they are going to protest more and more. We older folks need to support them because we all need serious change.

Racism is a part of the protest movement and is the spark which has ignited it but inequality and lack of opportunity is a much bigger part. We cannot let the status quo, where the disparity between rich and poor is so great (10 orders of magnitude) and the corporations, including the big pharmachetical corporations who are clearly taking advantage of the health of all of us to make even more money and become even more powerful prevail. It is immoral.

The time has come to fight back and ignore the rules and perhaps even the illegitimate laws.

I am not there to help but can someone, for example, just get the testicular fortitude to open a pub, with no social distancing , mask wearing or other stupidity and just see what happens. I know you will get lots of customers and I am pretty sure that the police will not be brave enough to come and arrest everyone and close you down.

My British countrymen and women, I implore you to accept that it is impossible to be absolutely ‘safe’.
Please try and get your British mojo back.

Love, Bob

27901 ▶▶ annie, replying to BobT, 3, #351 of 586 🔗

The trouble is that when you’re surrounded by abusive zombies, you stand out and feel vulnerable.
I know that sounds weaselly, but it is a problem.

27904 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BobT, 6, #352 of 586 🔗

Not going to argue about the benefits of deregulation or the need to end this coronapanic nonsense. We agree on all that.

But when you give credence to the racism pretext, you are helping to contribute to the problems, not to solve anything. There has probably never been less racist mixed societies than modern western ones, certainly as far as authorities and structures are concerned. Our societies are more often characterised by a horror of “racism” and demonisation and even criminalisation of racist opinions, attitudes and behaviours, than by the opposite.

You need to take on board the information Toby has provided – BLM is based on a lie . There is no systematically racist US police killing. And the rest of the antiracist dogmas are exaggerations or outright lies, that serve a purpose for the organisers who use them and benefit from them. Is there racism around? Undoubtedly, but by no mean confined to whites. Is “racism” an explanation of why particular non-white groups or individuals might do badly? No, absolutely not, in general. But the idea of racism and the resentment that idea can generate makes it a great tool in the hands of ideologues who exploit it.

The mostly white virtue signalling adolescents who form the bulk of the BLM street fodder haven’t the first clue about the realities of life in general, let alone whether the “racism” they are constantly lectured about has any real basis or force. They are just willing protest fodder, as young people pretty much always have been, and in reality, certainly prior to the coronapanic, they probably had less real justification for anger than almost any generation in history.

There are certainly plenty of naive people who just dislike “racism”, but the antiracism industry, the lobbyists and people who use it to build power and influence and to gain budgets and careers for themselves, they are functionally evil men and women who exploit resentment and hatred, and in order to build their own powerbase they must increase that resentment and hatred. Which is exactly what they do, in practice. BLM is a prime example.

27921 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 4, #353 of 586 🔗

Indeed. I can’t see any good way out of this. The sensible, win-win way out of this is for everyone to stop talking about race and treat people as individuals, but that will never be accepted – we’d also need to stop obsessing about all the other “identity” issues too. Either our civilisation as we know it will be finished, or new countries will be needed.

27884 Mark Tinker, replying to Mark Tinker, 2, #354 of 586 🔗

Google British Prime Ministers and notice google have removed Winston’s picture …

27997 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark Tinker, #355 of 586 🔗


27885 Aussiebird, #356 of 586 🔗

Here’s a jaunty lockdown lunacy theme tune from the Hilltop Hoods in Australia – ‘I’m Good?’ via YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu0hiX8MMnw

27888 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 7, #357 of 586 🔗

Now they want to destroy a statue of Earl Grey, the Prime Minister who abolished slavery. Who has been teaching these people history?

27890 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #358 of 586 🔗

It’s not about reason. It’s about hatred, and exercising power. The particular targets don’t matter as long as they are symbols that hurt the hated and the other, and force them to display submission and understand their place.

27896 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #359 of 586 🔗

Good question. The education system has been shambolic and I’ve seen it first hand where I volunteer. Its not only the students but the teachers’ knowledge is sorely lacking as well – they teach the wrong information and their knowledge is patchy because the teaching is more thematic not chronological. Of course no-one wants a return to the bad old days where kids are forced to memorise facts but those and the chronology is the building block to historical knowledge.

27907 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #360 of 586 🔗

History made much more sense to me when I (as an adult) read ‘Our Island Story’ when it was re-printed. Chronology is key!

27916 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #361 of 586 🔗

Since Yorkshire Tea became woke no doubt.

27891 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #362 of 586 🔗

Once it is understood that ‘Health and Safety’ regulations are of Prussian origin, imported into this country via membership of the eu, the behaviour of the ‘hi viz’ tabard wearing chief air raid wardens becomes more readily comprehensible.

The Origin of the Welfare State in England and Germany, 1850-1914 By E. P. Hennock

27915 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Tim Bidie, #363 of 586 🔗

The Committe of Public Safety seems a more likely origin.

28034 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #364 of 586 🔗

More to do with nineteenth century industrialisation….well after the demise of the committee of public safety.

Prussian factory law was a great deal more top down authoritarian than that of Britain which reflected the difference in the types of governments of the two countries. Unsurprising then that Prussian style authoritarian health and safety legislation crossed over into this country from the burgeoning new European empire of the EEC with the British Health & Safety at Work Act of 1974, a year after Britain finally joined the EEC.

28043 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Tim Bidie, #365 of 586 🔗

Sorry for the original whimsical comment, you’d be on stronger ground with the doleful legacy of the Zollverein I think.

27892 Samantha, replying to Samantha, 16, #366 of 586 🔗

Toby there was a very interesting article in the spectator this week co-written by professor Carl heneghan from Oxford uni about what’s been going on in care homes. It talked about the way death certs are being signed off by doctors over the phone without the doctors coming to the care homes and seeing the patients and how if staff remotely suspect covid to put it on the cert. Plus no autopsies are being done. It then went on to talk about a report done in France about what many elderly in care homes had died from “THIRST”. Due to lack of staff etc because of covid.

I had until now not been able to come up with a reason – other than the govt fiddling figures to justify lockdown – why care homes would put covid when the patients weren’t being treated for it but if the patients you have been charged with are dying from basic neglect ‘thirst’ due to staff shortages, trying to carry out strict cleaning, residents being shut in their rooms to prevent spread, no visitors who would help in giving patients drinks etc what better way to cover it up. There is much anecdotal evidence from people out there saying their loved ones weren’t being treated for covid so why is it on
Their death cert.

The article was very interesting and deserves more attention as we need to know what’s been going on in these places. It follows on from Professor Karol Sikora stating in his interview with Liam Hannigan of the Telegraph that the figures of deaths from covid are far lower than we think. For which the poor man was villified this week.

27893 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Samantha, 5, #367 of 586 🔗

I can absolutely believe this. I have had a lot of contact with care homes over the last 14 years due to trying my best to watch over 4 seniors who lived in them. And this was one of the better, more upmarket care homes.

27949 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #368 of 586 🔗

My dad was in one of those. Relatives were always about and so there was constant vigilance over the residents’ welfare.But the Covipanic removed that safeguard at a atroke.

27942 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Samantha, 5, #369 of 586 🔗

This would be a sadly realistic expectation in this country too. My Mum spent her last 18 months in a care home, a very nice care home because she was a self funder and could afford it, with lovely staff and an excellent staff to resident ratio, but even so there was still never really enough staff to provide the care that you’d like. The staff were meticulous in recording everything that each resident ate and drank, down to a sip of water or squash or a gulp of tea, which would be entered on the computer database and monitored hourly to ensure dehydration was avoided because dehydration in the frail very quickly leads to serious consequences. Some residents would drink voluntarily, others would need reminders, others would throw their drinks on the floor or drop their food or other objects into their drinks and others would need physically helping to drink. I can only begin to imagine that with fewer staff (due to sickness) and those staff on duty spending more time cleaning and less time caring, plus residents locked in their rooms (which in itself would be extremely traumatic to many dementia residents) that the standard of monitoring of drinking and eating would suffer. The crisis in care homes, even good care homes, was pretty shocking before covid 19 but had been failed to be addressed by every single government. I had no idea what it was like in care homes until my Mum became a resident, just how challenging an environment it is in normal times. Covid 19 has exposed the issues that were already there but I expect not much will change once this epidemic is over.

27996 ▶▶ annie, replying to Samantha, 1, #370 of 586 🔗

A few days ago a doctor told us on this site that the NHS contemplated asking relatives to sign death certificates.

27894 Nobody2020, 5, #372 of 586 🔗

This article is a bit bare on substance but I noted how similar her approach is to the Swedish one. Her experience with Ebola mirrors that of Anders Tegnell along with some of the things she said and did. So essentially the same approach as Sweden but different end results. Sweden is criticised and British Colombia is lauded.


Dr. Bonnie Henry kept the disease in check in British Columbia without harsh enforcement methods . Now, she is leading the way out of lockdown.

In the next few months, Dr. Henry would prove to be one of the most effective public health officials in the world , with lessons for nations struggling to emerge from lockdowns.

It was while working for the World Health Organization tracing Ebola outbreaks in Uganda that Dr. Henry developed her ideas about how best to respond to public health emergencies. The keys to an effective quarantine, she came to understand, were communication and support, like food and medical follow-up, not punitive measures.
If you tell people what they need to do and why, and give them the means to do it, most people will do what you need ,” she said.

That’s why, even when pushed to ramp up police enforcement of social distancing in parks and protests — as she was empowered to do — she staunchly refused.

That’s the only way as a community we can get through this without traumatizing people,” she said.

The philosophy is how to make this sustainable over next year to two years ,” she said. “We know there were unintended negative consequences from the things that we did, like intimate partner violence, suicides, children who didn’t get the services they need.”

The crucial thing now, she said, is to “find that balance so we minimize the impact of Covid, particularly on those people who are more likely to have severe illness or die from it, and minimize the unintended negative consequence of all the other things as well.”

We have to find that balance ,” she added, as she prepared to take her first day off in five months on Saturday. “ We can manage this for as long as we need .”

27902 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #373 of 586 🔗

Someone posted this on Simon Dolan’s twitter page and IMO this deserves to go viral:


27909 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #374 of 586 🔗

I’m looking forward to Simon’s promised big ‘reveal’ today… he has not said however, where we should look, ie if it will be in a newspaper or be printed elsewhere. We will just have to follow his Twitter feed!

27911 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #375 of 586 🔗

A good letter but overlong and self-indulgent. Misunderstands ‘moral compass’ too, like Gordon Brown.

‘Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and run with patience the race that is set before us, …’

27914 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #376 of 586 🔗

It was too long agree. The person could have stuck to a few relevant and pertinent points then left it at that.

28016 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #377 of 586 🔗

It needs to be 5 bullet points so that Boris has time to read it in the 2 minute interlude between games at the US Ambassador’s residence!

28040 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #378 of 586 🔗

Surely it needs to be a 3 word slogan otherwise it won’t be understood.

27913 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #379 of 586 🔗

That is an excellent letter by Willow.

27960 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #380 of 586 🔗

Thanks Bart, this is the letter

Sunday 14th June 2020

Dear Boris,

I feel a bit sorry for you. You seem, well, out of your depth. Lost. Like a beaten puppy.

But then again I’m also mad as hell. I never thought that a Conservative Prime Minister would be telling the people of Britain who to have sex with, not to hug their friends, to wear masks, look like bank robbers and letterboxes and for what? We can all drive the internet. We all know that only 0.06% of the population currently has Covid 19. We know that the death rate is low – around 0.26% overall. We know the virus is only a risk to the elderly and frail, we know around 80% of us are not even susceptible, we know it’s only spreading in institutions, we know the asymptomatic and children don’t seem to spread it.
And yet, and yet, instead of just admitting that science has moved on, you just keep doubling down. Bubbles and masks, track and trace, workplace testing, vaccines. We are watching our high streets turn into dystopian nightmares before our eyes, covered in signs and arrows and looking more like Communist China than Britain, and we can see that the virus doesn’t warrant any of it. So what exactly is going on?

You took over a thriving economy and you drove it into the ground and ushered in a socialist state. You were elected on Conservative principles of small government, free markets, civil liberties and the rule of law. But you’ve delivered overbearing authoritarianism, Government overreach, socialism, the total loss of our liberties, repeated attacks on democracy, riots on the streets, the cancellation of Churchill and a destruction of British culture and history that would have been audacious for a woke left government.

The people who voted for a Conservative government have been utterly let down by you. We wanted to take back control when we left Europe, not have control completely wrenched from us. We didn’t want to continue to be tied to discredited climate change models – in fact, we don’t want government by computer models at all, we want a government that looks at empirical evidence and then takes decisions based on values. The values you were elected on. Conservative values. Remember those? Small government, free markets, civil liberties, democracy, the rule of law.

What are your values Boris? Because you look like a ship without a rudder right now. You look like a man who sold out. You look like you sold our freedom to all the vested interests lined up to get richer off the pandemic : big data, big pharma, big tech. And in doing so you are delivering us into dystopia. You are rolling out tyranny. When corporations use governments to “create markets” for their products, when governments use their police backed powers of coercion to force citizens to become involuntary customers of corporations that is not just cronyism, it is fascism.

Many people now believe there is a bigger agenda in play. A global agenda for a global government, a communist, world, police and surveillance state and mass depopulation. Are you in the pockets of the globalists Boris? Do you imagine your children and grandchildren will thank you for helping to extinguish the lights of liberty in the West? Do you want that to be your legacy to the future?

And if it’s not that, if you simply have no idea how to roll back the powers you so inadvisedly took in the coronavirus panic, then I urge you to simply be bold and do so. Level with the public. On the basis of current levels of infection and the data we now have, there’s objectively no emergency. We can all see that. So roll back the emergency powers. Give us back our lives and allow us to try to rebuild our futures. Take a stand for Conservative values. This is your Churchill moment, right here, right now. Will you stand
for democracy? For freedom? For the rule of law? Or will you become a corrupt dictator leading your country into darkness?

You need to unite us Boris and heal our society. Humans are social creatures. We need the bonds of hugs, handshakes, smiles and social interactions. These are the glue that hold society together. These are how children develop empathy for others. Social psychologists have told you that behaviour change messaging based on collectivism and punitive laws can hold us together in place of empathy and human connection but they cannot. And the destructiveness of their hideous social experiment is beginning to
show. We are torn apart by racial intolerance that has not arisen out of systemic injustice in Britain or out of the events of history, but has been deliberately created and funded, quite cynically, to bring about the destruction of the West by those hoping to profit from it. It is those agents for change that we need you to stand against Boris, and if not you, then another leader with the strength to do so. A strength that can only come from a moral compass firmly and irrevocably pointed to economic and individual liberty, democracy and equality under the law. I urge and implore you to set your compass before it’s too late. Captain this ship out of the storm, don’t drive us beneath the waves of totalitarianism. Please don’t do that.

Yours sincerely


28009 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Victoria, 2, #381 of 586 🔗

I hope that he actually responds to her points in a letter

27903 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #382 of 586 🔗

Very interesting piece on the plague via the perspective of Niccolo Machiavelli. Seems we haven’t advanced as much as we’d like to think.


As fear took hold, society came apart at the seams. In the Decameron, Giovanni Boccaccio recalled that, during the Black Death, the well-to-do generally fled the city for the countryside. The poor, however, “were constrained… to remain in their houses”. Some tried to minimise the risk by living in isolation and adopting “a sober and abstemious mode of living”. Others “maintained that an infallible way of warding off” the plague was to drink heavily, enjoy life to the full, go round singing and merrymaking, gratify all of one’s cravings whenever the opportunity offered, and shrug the whole thing off as one enormous joke.

In 1503, Machiavelli’s brother, Totto, tried to calm his fears by claiming that sailors, who came into contact with the plague more than most, were only rarely infected . But most people were more cautious. Although they still had a habit of wandering the streets, they were careful to avoid contact with others as much as possible. This was sometimes taken to extraordinary extremes. In 1523, Machiavelli noted that:
Men go about alone, and instead of friends, one meets people infected with the deadly plague. Even if one parent meets the other, or a brother meets his brother, or a wife her husband, each keeps a safe distance from their relations; and what is worse? Fathers and mothers spurn their own children, abandoning them.

Rinaldo Gianfigliazzi – one of Florence’s most influential statesmen – demanded that, since the poor were “dying of hunger”, they should be “subsidised with public funds”. Perhaps suspecting that such a dole might be beyond the Republic’s means, Bartolomeo Valori, another member of the ruling elite, went even further. He argued that, since the poor could not “help themselves”, the rich should ease their burden – perhaps through forced loans or some form of expropriation.

For Machiavelli, this was arguably the most troubling feature of the plague. In The Prince and Discourses, he stressed that the success of any state depended on a delicate balance between social classes. There would, of course, always be some rivalry; but provided this was suitably contained, the tension between rich and poor could actually help to safeguard liberty and even lead to “greatness”. If factions formed, or civil unrest erupted, the consequences would be disastrous. Depending on who emerged victorious, liberty would give way to either anarchic licence or tyranny.

27947 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #383 of 586 🔗

Very apt.
The difference is, of course, that the plague really was a killer.

27951 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to annie, 1, #384 of 586 🔗

You would think that with the technology and knowledge we have now we could have come up with a better response than shut everyone up and wait to see what happens.

28103 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Nobody2020, #385 of 586 🔗

I agree the lockdown is a primitive method of disease control and is like something out of the dark ages.

27906 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #386 of 586 🔗


The importance of age stratified IFR for Covid-19 is clear in this interesting picture from Geneva, Canton. This was done by seroprevalence study of the different age groups. The IFR below 50 almost zero.50-64 0.14% comparable to severe flu .65+ over 5.6%. About 5% of the population over 65 were residing in care homes. There is no information in the Table of where the 286 deaths over 65 occurred but most likely 40-60 % in line with Swiss figures.
This is a pattern repeated everywhere showing three different epidemics one a non-event below 50 and one like severe flu 50-65 and one devastating in care homes and the most elderly. School closures absolute nonsense and lockdown most likely contra productive increasing death in care homes.

27910 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #387 of 586 🔗

It looks like an update to their earlier study, adding weeks 4 and 5 to the 3 weeks they had earlier. They might also have a few more samples in each week. Seroprevalence didn’t change much between 3 and 5 as you would expect as it was already over. Week 4 looks like a bit of an anomaly.

This is the earlier document: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.05.02.20088898

Interesting to note also the differences in the discussion by the same authors. The first paper says:

“We found no differences in seroprevalence between children/young-adults (5-19 years old) and middle age adults, with those older than 50 years having a significantly lower seroprevalence than 20-49 year olds. Although children present typical COVID-19 symptoms far less frequently than adults, these results provide support to emerging research showing that they indeed get infected at similar rates. This should be considered in view of increased concerns about severe inflammatory syndromes in children that could be COVID-19-related 16, and of the worldwide debate around opportunity and modality of school re-openings. Thus, assuming that the presence of IgG antibodies measured in this study is at least in the short-term associated with immunity, these results highlight that the epidemic is far from burning out simply due to herd immunity.”

And the second one (mostly based on the same data, but I think in the first one they categorized children 5-19 altogether instead of looking at 5-9 vs 10-19) says:

“We found that young children (5–9 years) and older people (≥65 years) had significantly lower seroprevalence than the other age groups. A single positive young child out of 123 in our sample suggests that infection was less prevalent in children than in adolescents and adults during this epidemic. These results are consistent with a small but growing body of evidence suggesting that young children are both infected and develop severe disease less often than adults, but much uncertainty remains. Although this might provide new insights for worldwide debates around opportunity and modality of schools reopening, the post-infection immune response in children is not clear. Of note, our ELISA test was validated in an adult-only population; whether the IgG response in children is delayed or qualitatively different needs to be further investigated. […] The lower seroprevalence estimates among older adults are a sign that targeted efforts to reduce social mixing of these people with others might have succeeded. However, it remains possible that older adults develop a lower IgG response after infection— something that needs further investigation.”

27918 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, 1, #388 of 586 🔗

Thanks for the comment. Interesting the shifting of focus, the first discussing the scare about Kawasaki like disease in younger population, a scenario much disseminated by Fauci and the vaccine group, and the second not mentioning this. But I hadn’t read the original reports obviously peddling the school closure scenario despite the glaring figures contradicting this.

28097 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to guy153, 1, #389 of 586 🔗

U.K. sampling shows the same patterns. Children are infected At about the same as middle aged adults, but have low morbidity. Adults have higher prevalence. But this may be down to sampling. Those who are patient facing are eight times more likely to be positive. Hence in the 19-45 age range you are actually surveying the age of your healthcare workers, since these skew the sampling. There is no data in the community 85+ ons survey as it does not include nursing homes.

27912 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, #390 of 586 🔗

Please let Simon Dolan have this information, in case he has not seen it – will be useful in his court case!

27920 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #392 of 586 🔗

That is truly frightening.

27978 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #393 of 586 🔗

Controlled opposition.

Carnt truss ’em..

27990 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John Smith, #394 of 586 🔗

What do you mean?

27981 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #395 of 586 🔗

Hitchens has been very good on a lot of the Abolition of Britain stuff, but he failed on antiracism, because he was of a generation that fell hook line and sinker for the racism ploy.

Race was the battering ram of the diversity industry and the king of the identity lobbies. Antiracism defeated resistance to mass immigration and thereby helped suppress Euroscepticism for a time, enabled and facilitated the infiltration and “reform” of the police and other institutions that he decries, and provides bitterness and resentment that drives the street shock troops of the cultural revolutionaries.

But that’s in the past now. Perhaps Hitchens realises his error, more likely he clings to nonsense about the “evil of racism”. But that is behind us now and the question is how we recover from the harm that has been done, and that will bear its full fruits over the next few years.

Will the “Conservative” Party be rebuilt as an actually conservative party that will resist the progressives rather than surrendering to and collaborating with them as this one has? Will it have to be swept away by a new force from the political right, that will embody the backlash to what the establishment is now doing to the nation?

Time will tell, but if it is necessary to sweep away the “Conservative” dross, I think what will arise in its place will be forged in a brutal struggle against the tyrannical forces Hichens describes, and will be no gentle establishment conservatism.

28035 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 1, #396 of 586 🔗

I wonder if Hitchens shys away from explicitly stating certain things that he might believe, because he fears he would lose his platform if he were to. Or whether his Christianity influences what he’s prepared to say in public on this subject.

28037 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #397 of 586 🔗

His Christianity certainly does influence what he says, but on this point I have seen him speak or write several times making it clear that he is not prepared to fully condemn antiracism because of what he sees as the evil of racism. Which basically misses the point completely, and in a person of Peter’s intelligence that is down to emotional commitment to a learned dogma, not intellectual inadequacy.

28041 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mark, 3, #398 of 586 🔗

The Conservative Party doesn’t need rebuilding…. it’s as it always was.

It was Thatcher that yanked the party away from its true path of wetness, managed decline and obeisance to progressive dogma.

Since then it has simply regressed to the mean.

I mean, find me a Tory PM since Peel who has been what we might call a radical conservative?

Don’t give me Churchill. He lead a government of national unity in the war, and he did nothing to put a spanner in the works of all the deluded, unsustainable lefty shit that was done in the aftermath of WW2.

We need a radical conservative party, and at the moment, the only credible leader is Farage.

28098 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, 1, #399 of 586 🔗

Not going to disagree with any of that. Maybe his recent experience getting browbeaten and lectured by the woke-worshippers at Good Morning Britain combined with his new free time after parting from LBC will stimulate him to expand his political horizons.

But sweeping away the “Conservative” Party does mean a period of division on the (real or supposed) right which will mean it will get much worse (more Blairite governments) before it gets any better. But at least there might be some clarity.

28093 ▶▶▶ JeremyH, replying to Mark, #400 of 586 🔗

Pro-lockdown, anti-freedom, security loving, safety loving, authoritarians do NOT have the right to call themselves progressives. Progressive implies you’re willing to live and let live, and cut down on old rules, red tape and let those who wish to choose to do so move away from past cultural practices. No-one can be a progressive if they insist on how others are to live, the lockdown extremist brigade have violatd the very core of what progressivism shoud mean.

27919 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #401 of 586 🔗

In that part of Ireland which is part of the UK the death rate from Covid has been lower than that for the rest of the island, yet the six counties “lockdowned” later. I’m sure Prof. Ferguson would have an explanation for why that has happened.

28089 ▶▶ JeremyH, replying to Ned of the Hills, #402 of 586 🔗

And I’m sure Michael Levitt or Karol Sikora or Simon Wood or Isaac Ben-Israel will have a better explanation.

27922 Albie, #403 of 586 🔗

What happens if an NHS employee merely questions, on their social media, the tactics used by BLM? How do their friends and followers deal with that quandary, the dilemma from hell?? NHS v BLM. Two sainted organisations beyond reproach and so utterly perfect in the eyes of the general public.

27924 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #404 of 586 🔗

AS regards Simon Dolan’s tweet yesterday
Today update
It seems the MSM were warned off printing the story. We need to get it out far and wide. Detail to follow
9:46 am · 14 Jun 2020

27935 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #405 of 586 🔗

Wonder if they will print it now? Someone tweet it to Peter Hitchens, Guido and other sites, people will get the info somehow!

27925 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 22, #406 of 586 🔗

Let’s never have another shutdown by Luke Johnson


First, we should never allow a mass shutdown again. Apart from anything, we cannot afford it: the government will be lucky to borrow the money spent bailing out the economy, taking our national debt above £2 trillion.
Next time, there can be no 8.9 million on furlough, no business interruption loans, no business rates holidays, no 50% collapse in output for months and other horrors. We may still reach 15% unemployment; another lockdown would harm our industrial base so badly that we might see 25% out of work. Then there is the collateral damage of thousands of unnecessary deaths from cancer, heart disease and other killers that have been neglected, and the awful toll on mental health and education.

Second, ministers need to be better qualified in scientific and technical matters, to challenge expert advisers. The deference of our elected officials towards the unelected gurus on the Sage group of experts has been pathetic. Sage minutes show how meetings descended into groupthink and confirmation bias. Ignoring the costs and consequences of the lockdown was grossly irresponsible.
The government’s scaremongering — “Project Fear” on steroids — has helped to demolish our national confidence and created millions of hypochondriacs.

Third, we must fight the tyranny of models. Theoretical projections such as Professor Neil Ferguson’s 500,000 deaths terrified the government and the public, triggering lockdown, with untold collateral damage to our wellbeing and liberties. Imperial College London predicted 2.2 million deaths in the US — a similarly overblown and inflammatory number. The software that was the basis of Ferguson’s model was deeply flawed and produced unreliable data — it was never peer reviewed, nor properly questioned by the public health experts, despite Ferguson’s disastrous track record over mad cow disease and swine flu. Spreadsheets replace judgment and common sense, acquired by personal experience and talent; they can lead to big errors, manipulation and distortions.

Fourth, we need to resist safetyism. Society has become so risk-averse that civilisation might regress because of irrational fear. The false promise of security and absolute safety — together with mass media hungry for catastrophe — means that inevitable uncertainties and surprises become existential threats in our minds. A comfortable, almost decadent 21st-century life for so many has led to us becoming weak, over-sentimental and unable to cope with our mortality. The idea of schools not opening until September is ludicrous, given that only three people under 19 without existing comorbidities have died in England from the virus. A fetish about being “safe” is undermining the essential functioning of everyday life.

27953 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #407 of 586 🔗

Brilliant article. This is a Johnson that makes sense.

27971 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Victoria, 3, #408 of 586 🔗

Like his previous associate, Hugh Osmond (also critical of lockdown), he did the first part of the medical degree at Oxford. Interestingly, several of the other prominent critics in the US are former medics (Ron Paul, Rand Paul and Michael Burry of The Big Short fame). Johnson was very good on Question Time a few weeks ago, as was Sir Rocco Forte last Thursday. We need more of these people to speak out.

28036 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #409 of 586 🔗

Science can be summarised thus:


27930 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to smileymiley, 1, #411 of 586 🔗

Thanks! According to UK column the government’s long-term plan is that schools *never* re-open (!), but I’m not sure if they have documents to prove this – if so, then maybe someone can send them to Simon as this would surely help his case!

27976 ▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to Carrie, #412 of 586 🔗

That is obviously what is being attempted.

So it looks Mr. Cooper was correct.

“Schools out 4ever…”

(Except the posh schools of course)

27977 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Carrie, #413 of 586 🔗

They do have a point. The big players such as Alphabet/Google with their Google Education platform are pushing it big time, and most colleges and universities I work with a planning ahead to make the change if they haven’t already to start delivering with Microsoft W365 and Teams. My company is snowed under getting people working on these platforms.

I think we will very soon see the end of teaching in classroom teaching at schools, colleges, and universities, in preference for video conference learning at home.

27979 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to daveyp, 1, #414 of 586 🔗

What also worries me is having seen headlines on the net that Bill Gates is taking over education in New York (how?)… now that sounds really ominous. I have not dared to click on the links..

27998 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, #415 of 586 🔗

Microsoft Teams? Mrs Gates was interviewed on CNBC a couple of weeks ago and was pushing this quite hard. I know they have a minimal direct investment in Microsoft these days, but I am less sure whether the Gates Foundation and associated trusts hold shares through nominee accounts?

28049 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #416 of 586 🔗

Gates personally still holds 330 million shares in Microsoft which at the current share price of $184.74 are worth a total of $61,954,200,000!!!!!!

He gave away 64 million to his foundation in 2017 which at the time was worth $6.4 billion. In total he had sol $35.8 billion of Microsoft stock for the Foundation.

28087 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to daveyp, #417 of 586 🔗

The numbers are huge, but Microsoft market cap is $1.42t. He is also no longer on the board of Microsoft (also resigned from Berkshire Hathaway board on 13 March 2020), so I was just making the point that there seemed to be an (overly) aggressive push on Microsoft Teams.

28008 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to daveyp, #418 of 586 🔗

Are you sure? The Common Purpose State depends on having captive audience 30 hours a week, to get their propaganda embedded in young minds. There is no way that statists will cede that ground.

28013 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AidanR, 1, #419 of 586 🔗

Over the last couple of years, homeschooling in its current form has increasingly been under threat, with councils wanting to impose a curriculum and also to have the right to turn up at your house to check what you are doing – and even interview your children without your being present. Anyone knows that children are apt to say whatever is on their mind at the time (and can be easily led to give particular answers) so a parent could find themselves in a very difficult situation if their child happened to say the ‘wrong’ thing. Also since when has anyone had the right to enter a private home without there being reasonable grounds that a crime has been committed? Or to interview a child without their parent present?
I worry that if schools close, the powers-that-be will find some way to impose a compulsory curriculum nonetheless – maybe online, with mandatory assignments and constant outside monitoring?

28027 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 1, #420 of 586 🔗

All authority, no matter how desirable it may appear *must* be continuously questioned and monitored. Power is always but always but always abused and must have this continuous pressure placed upon it.

28052 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to AidanR, #421 of 586 🔗

My daughter had home work about April Fool’s Day a few weeks ago, and the topic was the “Spaghetti-tree hoax” from 1957 by Panorama.

There was a question about it that said “Why was this April Fools hope believed by so many people?”, and the answer was “Because it was produced by the world renowned BBC”, as if the BBC still is the great purveyor of truth!!!

That’s the modern day brainwashing of kids in schools.

27933 ▶▶ matt, replying to smileymiley, #422 of 586 🔗

Can someone quote this here for me? Twitter links never work for me

27937 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 3, #423 of 586 🔗

1. Govt defence confirms – as we had suspected all along – that there is no basis in law that the majority of schools in this country have been closed for the few months

They are closed as a result of a trick of words from Boris Johnson and his government.
2. The Govt have conned teachers and parents into believing they needed to be closed and more outrageously, has denied a proper education to millions of children.
3. It is a kick in the teeth to the hundreds of thousands of families trying to homeschool in a desperate attempt to give their children some form of education while dealing with so many other pressures
4. This is something we have suspected all along in this judicial review fight and it is only now the Government has acknowledged this.’

27939 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 2, #424 of 586 🔗

Thanks. Disappointing though – more of a change of context than a game changer.

27941 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 1, #425 of 586 🔗

It’s a big thing if you are a pupil whose GCSEs or A levels were cancelled due to school closure! Or a parent of one of such pupils..

27945 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 3, #426 of 586 🔗

I’m not arguing with the importance of the issue. I just don’t really see how framing the school closures as a request rather than an instruction is a game changer. Especially in an environment where the majority of parents and teachers probably still see it as a reasonable and sensible request.

27946 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 2, #427 of 586 🔗

To add – I may be being obtuse. I’d be very happy to have it explained to me why this is in fact a significant “gotcha” moment.

27957 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 5, #428 of 586 🔗

I understand. But Simon also says that this is just the first of a number of lies so it is nonetheless a start. Social distancing is also a request, not a law – so what are the government making councils set up all-too-permanent-looking signs and stickers everywhere?
The more lies that are exposed, the more we can get people to start questioning the narrative, the bigger leverage will become to make it all stop..

27964 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Carrie, 2, #429 of 586 🔗

Court cases do have the advantage of pinning slippery customers like politicians down to relatively clear statements and forcing actual answers rather than evasions and subject changes. At least, they do if competent lawyers are involved. So it is likely the Dolan case will clarify things like this quite a lot.

27966 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to matt, 2, #430 of 586 🔗

I think it may be a game changer in the world of Law. Which as we know isn’t the real world but at least it’s a start. If Simon and his legal team keep whittling away and finding more and more actions that were incorrectly actioned, the whole house of cards is likely to topple.

27940 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 3, #431 of 586 🔗

5. “The Government’s response is to call the claims we are making absurd claims. It has taken the instruction of one of the top QCs in the land – the First Treasury Counsel Sir James Eadie – and three barristers to come up with this response.
6.They say it is nonsensical for us to say that schools were closed,because they remained open for key workers and there had only been a request that schools should shut their doors,yet the PM and Williamson announced on 18/3 that schools will remain closed until further notice.

Simon has also posted a video of Boris announcing that schools will close!

27956 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, 6, #432 of 586 🔗

It makes the PM and the government look foolish, which may help our cause especially with those who voted for them and feel disappointed by their lack of competence.

But I don’t see that it changes much. It hasn’t looked to me like the government has the political will or the support from local authorities and unions to do anything with schools that the schools don’t want to do – open them or close them.

Anyway to my mind the real battle is whether schools and universities can ever open full time, ever again, and be like they were, with the same class and group sizes, face to face contact, social events, sports etc. Until then, whatever happens just isn’t good enough. I suppose a part time reopening could be seen as a step in the right direction, and welcome respite for parents, but the battle cannot stop there.

27968 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 1, #433 of 586 🔗

Agree. It is all tied in with the pushing of ‘new normal’ or ‘new paradigm’. No, there is just ‘normal’ and none of this is. The university sector cannot survive this way, and nor should it. Perfect time, however, to rationalise – lots of campuses at ‘non-universities’ like the one in my provincial city should be turned over to other use, such as brownfield housing development rather than the constant encroachment on the countryside.

27994 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 1, #434 of 586 🔗

How hard is it to make thus govt look. stupid?
None the less, go it, Simon.

28033 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 1, #435 of 586 🔗

From where I’m sitting they don’t need any help!! lol

27975 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to matt, 1, #436 of 586 🔗

UK column are good there predictions are not far off the mark

27929 Bella, replying to Bella, 3, #437 of 586 🔗

Am I the only one disappointed that the subject re Simon Dolan’s Tweet last night seems a bit anti-climactic? Re-tweeted anyway but response seems to be ‘well that’s what the (scaredy) people wanted.’

27931 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, 9, #438 of 586 🔗

Agree, but as he says – they are in disarray, as they have kowtowed to the unions and are happy for schools to not open till September and even then for them not to be fully open. Despite other countries’ schools being fully open and without social distancing, proving that there is no need for ours to remain shut. And for pupils whose exams have been cancelled, schools having shut unnecessarily is a *big* issue…

27950 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, 20, #439 of 586 🔗

I’m with you but what’s increasingly disturbing is that the majority don’t seem to be in step with this. And now that the Tories (whom I loathe) are in disarray is the void going to be filled with the ‘woke’ (I hate that word!) community who demand we ‘take a knee’ for solidarity? I won’t take a fucking knee for anyone any more than I will wear a mask (sorry about the cursing but I am losing it).I passed twelve year olds coming from BLM demos yesterday who haven’t a clue. More cannon fodder for the bullies. Peter Hitchens’ disturbing column today (linked on this page somewhere) thinks it’s coming from the left, I don’t. I think it’s coming from tyrants who are linking themselves to the left. I used to be an active trade unionist, but I no longer can endorse unions whose self-interest denies others. Trades Unions grew as a resistance to exploitation and bullying, when you become the bully it’s time for a reboot. Hitchens’ column says it all – we’re about to lose all the freedoms we take for granted. As someone who used to be politically diametrically opposed to Toby Young (not any more I think) I applaud him for setting up this web site and the FSU (which I have also donated to.) We have to air our differences and get over them, in the course of this being kind to one another. Extremism only serves those who would be satiated by an exercise in power. All those who want common decency to prevail, to choose what they do when, who don’t want to succumb to petty tyrannies, have to stand up to be counted now. I have a feeling what transpires out of this is going to be the template for the next generation. And that could be the boot on the human face.

27965 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bella, 9, #440 of 586 🔗

Well said Bella.

As ever, there’s a quote from the man whose statue they’ve just boarded up:

‘We have differed and quarrelled in the past; but now one bond unites us all: … never to surrender ourselves to servitude and shame, whatever the cost and agony may be.’

28117 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bella, #441 of 586 🔗


“EVGENY LEBEDEV: As a child of the USSR, I fear these pictures of Stalin show where Britain is heading…”

I have to respectfully disagree. It’s absolutely from the left, the far Left, i.e. the anarchists, Marxists. Most people who are liberal left, ordinary trades union members, Labour voters, etc, are not part of it, but are going along with it.
It’s those in universities, and quangos throughout government, it’s in the Labour party, Momentum, Trades Union Officials, etc.

27962 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 9, #442 of 586 🔗

Elder son first year at university, had lost pretty much all of winter term anyway due to lecturer’s strike (I have some sympathy with foot-soldier lecturers as they have been shafted royally by the VCs and their admin blob for many years) and still not sure what is happening in the autumn. Younger son is part of this A level ‘experiment’, that along with the sister experiment for GCSEs, looks set to continue next year, and possibly indefinitely for GCSEs if the teaching unions get their way. The whole thing is a disgrace. No thought and consideration for the younger generation at all. The response will be to dumb down the system further, socially engineer to the point of restricting access to top universities for ‘privileged’ children, and in so doing, expunge the middle class/jams and white working class (red wall Tories) for ever. Great job Boris!

27932 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bella, 3, #443 of 586 🔗

Yes,a bit disappointed too,I was hoping for something big that would maybe bring an end to this madness.

27954 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Paul, #444 of 586 🔗

Me too!

27972 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Bella, 1, #445 of 586 🔗

I’m with you here about it being anti-climatic. It’s defientely no game changers that will turn the media or the lockdown zealots. Very disappointing.

27991 ▶▶ JASA, replying to Bella, 5, #446 of 586 🔗

I think it could be big. If it is true, then independent schools can fully reopen. The only reason they haven’t is their insurers’ interpretation of what has been said by the government, but in light of this revelation it looks like it is all recommendations, so hopefully the insurers will change their view. If they don’t, then the independent schools can put pressure on them. Once independent schools reopen, things really change. If the government haven’t actually closed the schools, then the local authorities can surely be sued?

Also, the 2m distancing is just a recommendation, yet all other guidance is based on it. No law can be based on a recommendation, so everything falls apart. We all just need to challenge and resist everything. There isn’t anything that they can do.

The government have relied on compliance and that has now be shown by this to be all it is. The government are in effect blaming us.

28005 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JASA, 4, #447 of 586 🔗

Exactly. If 2m distancing is a ‘recommendation’, not a law, then the government should be actively stopping councils from putting up all-too-permanent-looking social-distancing signs and imposing such rules. Next stage is to challenge the masks stuff – is that law or guidance? If guidance then what is with the fines for people not wearing them?

27934 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #448 of 586 🔗

“Even Tories increasingly fear they have inflicted the worst of all worlds on Britain
There is mounting dread that we will emerge from the coronavirus crisis with a higher death rate than comparable countries and a more ravaged economy”

“…it chimes with other indicators suggesting that this country will pay a uniquely high price for its sluggish imposition of the lockdown and the government’s chaotic mismanagement of the attempt to grope towards an exit. All of which is fuelling the fear that it will be Britain’s fate to get the worst of both worlds: a higher death rate than comparable countries and a more ravaged economy. That dread now radiates from Tories like a pungent musk.”


But you and I will not be able to say “told you so” because the actual lockdown itself is not questioned. What is questioned is whether the government brought it in early enough. Whether schools should have been closed is not questioned, but the fact that “zoos, pubs and bookies” will be opening sooner than schools is, apparently, the main issue.

Rawnsley (whom I liked when he used to do that programme with Vincent Hanna) uses “excess deaths” as his measure of failure – so he avoids the issue of the UK’s over-enthusiastic certifying of Covid deaths. However, he doesn’t allow for the fact that the lockdown itself could be responsible for any deaths apart from its consequences in care homes. Of course he cannot know how many deaths will occur in future due to missed operations, etc.

There is no hint that there was any alternative to lockdown, which I find infuriating.

27967 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #449 of 586 🔗

Its The Guardian I am not sure what else you expect.

27985 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #450 of 586 🔗

Yeah, but being the Guardian, you’d think that they’d be all over anything that could destroy the Tories. In this case, there’s an open goal, but they’re toeing the conventional line and just sniping about tiny operational matters. The fact that the economy has been smashed to pieces (with god knows what consequences for their client ‘identities’) isn’t questioned. Being on our side of the argument and looking in on the squabble is a very odd sensation. It’s as though an idea can be too big for some people to contemplate, yet we are able to see it, and have done from the very start. They apparently want to ‘smash the system’ with their salivatory backing of ‘BLM’ and so on, but yet they automatically fall into line with the establishment view about the virus.

28011 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, #451 of 586 🔗

I think that is because they exist to control the thinking and behaviour of a certain subsection of the population and get them to conform to the requirements of certain interests – the Tory bashing is a useful tool to achieve this but that’s not actually their primary aim. Their primary aim is becoming more apparent now.

28053 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Saved To Death, #452 of 586 🔗

Yes, that’s it. For them the trial run of controlling the population and economy is an even more enticing prospect than getting rid of the Tories. The Tories will be gone soon enough, and then they will have a field day.

27969 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #453 of 586 🔗

As much as I disagree with the whole cancel culture this would be some quite amusing form of unintended consequence: https://www.change.org/p/independent-press-standards-organisation-shut-down-the-guardian-newspaper?use_react=false

27988 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #454 of 586 🔗

Oh delicious… I’m signing that… and sending it to everyone…

28015 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #455 of 586 🔗

The more I think about it, the more lefty organisations can and should be taken down.

The Fabian Society for its endorsement of eugenics.

The New Statesman, founded by leading members of the Fabian Society.

George Bernard Shaw. Fabian.

Marie Stopes – openly racist and eugenicist.

The NUM – members frequently seen in blackface.

28028 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to AidanR, 2, #456 of 586 🔗

I was reading the Communist Manifesto the other day, as you do, and found Marx refers to “barbarians” in contrast to Europeans, and implies that Chinese are barbarians. I was shocked, I tell you – shocked. It’s time for his statues to come down.

28084 ▶▶▶▶▶ JeremyH, replying to OKUK, #457 of 586 🔗

Shows what b*stards the Chinese government are that they’d be willing to follow the teachings of someone who called their people “barbarians”, all because doing so gives them more power to oppress their long suffering locals.

28029 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, #458 of 586 🔗

The NUM – members frequently seen in blackface .”

Very good, Aidan 🙂

The first time I went down a mine, I came up and had a shower, but for some reason it didn’t occur to me to wash my face! I had to beat a quick retreat in the face of gales of laughter to correct that omission….

28038 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Saved To Death, #459 of 586 🔗

How did they let that one slip through especially as Bill gates invests in both change.org and the Guardian? Common core education?

Fun to get back at them.

28083 ▶▶▶ JeremyH, replying to Saved To Death, #460 of 586 🔗

Much as they publish lies and rubbish so often, as have many other newspapers at different times I can’t approve of shutting them down. Right now the Telegraph is mostly truth, and the Guardian mostly lies, but is has been the opposite in some past crises and may be so again for future events. Better to make them carry a health warning on the front page “Lockdown can has seriously damaged your health…”

27938 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 25, #461 of 586 🔗

Sorry, here is my piss-take on the ridiculous new diktats being implemented by our laughably titled Business Improvement District:


My name is Karen from the local Business Interference District providing helpful advice on how customers and businesses in the town will operate from 15th June. We are also offering helpful advice to the thousands of visitors we expect to visit the town in the expectation of their unleashing the pent-up desire to spend money they don’t have on crap they don’t need. Please note that Boris expects you to do your duty and spend, spend, spend, despite the fact that you probably won’t have a job to go back to and no money to pay for your purchases once the credit card bill arrives.

First, you will notice on your drive into the town that the arterial roads now have a helpful 20 mph speed limit. There will be helpful checkpoints along the various three access routes into the town. This will be helpful in making your journey into the town even more time-consuming.  If, and when you eventually arrive in the town, you will be directed to one of the car parks.  Helpfully, and to aid social distancing, the main car park that once had 346 spaces now has five.  This is for your comfort and safety and for the comfort and safety of our brave parking partnership wardens who are working on the front line to ensure your comfort and safety.

Once parked, and before you are permitted access to the town, you will be subject to a pat-down by the friendly and approachable newly-deployed ambassadors.  Any items found on your person that do not comply with the new rules for the new normal will be confiscated and re-purposed (responsibly) as secret santa presents at the prestigious Town Council christmas party.

You will be instructed, in a helpful and approchable way, for your health and safety, to walk on the left hand side of the pavement, observing the newly implemented pedestrian one-way systems.  Other narrower routes into the town will be closed for your added comfort and safety.  You will be herded like the disease-ridden vermin that you are by our new town ambassadors, resplendent in their bright pink high-viz jackets that are colour coordinated with the plastic spacing dots now adorning the town.  These in turn complement the regulation-issue hanging baskets.  Any business not complying with the new pink and red colour scheme will be ostracised from the local business community for all eternity.

It will now be made easier to observe the social distancing rules on the town’s pavements because sections of the roads will now be bollarded to increase the width of the pavement and reduce the width of the road.    Non-compliance with any of the social-distancing rules or walking the wrong way down one of the new one way routes will result in the new town ambassadors calling for back-up (on their new walky-talkies) from other town ambassadors and the police.  Any deniers will be carted off to the council’s re-education centre and used as a guinea pig for that nice Mr Gates’ vaccine.

On finding the shop of your choice, you will be made to adhere to the 2 metre distancing rules by standing on the acid pink spacing dots.  Again, the ambassadors will be on hand to offer helpful advice on how to do this. How this works with two shops next door to one another, we haven’t yet figured out.  Please bear in mind that along with the heroic parking partnership wardens, our valiant shop assistants are working tirelessly on the front line to make your new normal shopping experience as safe and comfortable as possible.  Once you have gained entry into the shop by observing the new traffic light system (a snip at £190 from local firm: Rip-Off Electricians Ltd.) you will be made, for your comfort and safety, to walk through a paddling pool-type disinfectant system and then herded by a rather stern-faced harridan who has been itching to treat you like scum for years.  You will then have your temperature checked and be sprayed down with Dettol/TCP/bleach or whichever disinfectant is to hand.  You can then commence with the exciting new normal shopping experience.  Please be aware that you will be required at all times to wear gloves and a mask and use anti-bac hand gel every five minutes. You will not be permitted to handle any goods for fear of contamination.  Please note that, for your added comfort and safety, toilet facilities will not be open at this time.

A Guide for Businesses who we really don’t give a toss about:

If you are a business and require a delivery, you will have to telephone a premium-rate telephone number to get someone who is authorised to move the bollard that is helpfully newly installed outside your business premises. This may take several hours. Please bear with us at this difficult time.

A final cautionary note: You may have noticed that there is one business that is disgracefully treating its customers like human beings.  This is contrary to the BID guidelines.  You may also notice that they have not complied with the new regulation hanging basket colour scheme.  This irreverence to the town colour-scheme is totally unacceptable.  Please also note that they are allowing customers to endanger their lives by allowing them use of the toilet.  This behaviour is totally reprehensible and is not in accordance with the new-normal rules.  Further, they are not festooning their premises with the state-approved rainbow adornments to pledge allegience to the new state religion: Our NHS

We hope you enjoy your trip to our lovely town: stay safe, stay distanced and stay away!

27948 ▶▶ Alci, replying to kh1485, 11, #462 of 586 🔗

Glorious. Wish it wasn’t so accurate.

My little local market town, already struggling to recover from recurrent floods, has had one of its main streets closed to parking overnight to widen the pavements and allow for social distancing. Local traders are furious – parking is hard to come by at the best of times. They weren’t consulted.

Meanwhile council haven’t collected our recycling for four weeks and counting. Used to be weekly.

27982 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Alci, 3, #463 of 586 🔗

My sympathies. A few renegades here keep saying “it’s the parking, stupid …” (or words to that effect) and we too are ignored. All our BID people do is fiddle while Rome burns. And boy, are they loving the COVID nightmare.

27955 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 4, #464 of 586 🔗

Very well observed Kh,I am shocked about the one non-compliant business,there is always one that lets everyone down,don’t they know that people are going to die because of them ? !.
Seriously though,keep up the resistance,us sceptics are proud of you.I’ve tried to stir a bit of dissent in my town but most businesses are fully onboard with the new abnormal,one or two aren’t and they are the only ones I will be using for the foreseeable future.
Have a look at this,it looks really fun,


27963 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Paul, 5, #465 of 586 🔗

Remember, resistance is NOT futile. The Borg failed in the end to assimilate Earth …. 😉

27983 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #466 of 586 🔗

Are you sure about that Carrie?

It sure looks like a hivemind is at the wheel. Sadly it’s a hive of profoundly inferior minds.

28000 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to AidanR, 3, #467 of 586 🔗

Inferior, and inhuman.

27989 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to CarrieAH, #468 of 586 🔗

But who will be our Locutus?

27992 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #469 of 586 🔗

Hear hear.
But our Covizombies
look more like Borg every minute, don’t they?

28017 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #470 of 586 🔗

Yes, though that was in large measure due to help they had from an android, and a courageous Klingon.

28108 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to CarrieAH, #471 of 586 🔗

The Bolsheviks didn’t…

28109 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lms23, #472 of 586 🔗


27970 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 1, #473 of 586 🔗

Thanks for this Paul – he is so, so right and it’s so, so depressing … I know, there is always one, isn’t there 😉 Depressingly, I only exagerrated it a bit!

28107 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to kh1485, 1, #474 of 586 🔗

Reads like something from the late Victoria Wood. Shame she’s not still here to perform this as a sketch on tv. If nothing else, it might have brought some sense to more people.

28124 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Lms23, #475 of 586 🔗

Thanks 🙂 I was actually going to record it as a video but it got too long. I did actually do a read-out to a friend while attempting to disguise my voice (so as not to out myself to the BID!). But I ended up doing it in an Aussie accent (I watched a documentary a few days ago about that guy who disappeared in the outback years ago so that might be the reason!). Depending on what bonkersness transpires from tomorrow, I may do a video version just to cheer myself up!

28240 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #476 of 586 🔗

Excellent!!!! This made me laugh because its so true – this is pretty much the subliminal message behind those emails I’ve been receiving from businesses purporting to welcome me back because they missed me.

27944 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 18, #477 of 586 🔗

No 10 tells it like it isn’t. So we make the rules

It feels as if we are living in parallel realities. There is the world of the Downing Street press conference, where Boris Johnson carefully expounds guidelines to “open up in a Covid-secure way”, and there is the real world where people have stopped listening and are using their own judgment. There is the world of the Downing Street press conference, where Johnson is going to lead our people back to the high street to boost the economy, and there is the real world where everyone not on a public-sector contract is skint , can buy most stuff online anyway and is far keener to see family and friends than the inside of Sports Direct.

the sense that the more ministers talk, the more they sound like Comical Ali, the former Iraqi information minister famous for the obvious lies he told during briefings during the invasion of Iraq. Most people would congratulate ministers if they admitted mistakes.

27952 ▶▶ Alice, replying to HawkAnalyst, 15, #478 of 586 🔗

This feeling of living in parallel realities is very familiar to those who have had the experience of living under dictatorship – no one believes the official media, and people read “samizdats” in secret.

28106 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Alice, 1, #479 of 586 🔗

We are all having the experience of living under a dictatorship.

28057 ▶▶ karate56, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #480 of 586 🔗

The high street is finished because of this psychosis. I think people wont go shopping because of the virus but purely because its utter shit. Anyone not willing to use a one way system, not be able to try anything on or touch any items, to queue like an eastern bloc pauper for food, will not touch the high street. I suspect even alot of the lockdown brainwashed wont go there.
Its not even scrap 2m, it’s scrap it all or nothing and even if they did scrap this insanity I think it’s too late. These businesses can’t and won’t survive no matter what happens.

28081 ▶▶▶ JeremyH, replying to karate56, #481 of 586 🔗

The only option is to go shopping and defy the bullsh*t. See what they do when you try on an item on the shop floor, if you find it fits and say you’ll buy it they’ll be very reluctant to try to push you out, they might even help you jump the ceckout queues to pay quicker. The high street must be reclaimed by the sceptics, the zealots wouldn’t go there anyway so there isn’t much chance of shops losing customers by bending to our will rather than the coronaphobes’.

28101 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to karate56, 2, #482 of 586 🔗

The high street has been struggling for years with shop closures. Shops are facing a double whammy. They have not been allowed to operate and are introducing measures which put customers off. Are shops introducing these measures because they think the public want them or are they under instructions from the government. If high street shops go bust there is a knock on effect on suppliers and businesses which depend on shoppers eg restaurants, coffee shops, pubs, taxis and buses.

28118 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to ianric, 1, #483 of 586 🔗

Oddly, the government came under a certain amount of pressure from pubs after 16th March (“avoid going to the pub”) and 20th (closure of pubs) to officially close them down. The reason was that those that had insurance were unable to claim on it until they had been officially closed down.

However, by the Thursday, the insurance industry had pretty much come to the conclusion anyway that “strongly hinted at to close” meant essentially the same thing as “told to close)

27980 Ten, replying to Ten, 20, #484 of 586 🔗

I cant help but see the irony with the JKR debate. She is woman that identities with being a woman and is expressing an opinion and is being denounced as an fascist. In response people are burning her books.
Contrary to popular belief only one of those acts is fascist.

27984 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Ten, 11, #485 of 586 🔗

Though I generally agree with the points made by Rowling on this topic, which are mostly common sense, it’s hard for me to have much sympathy for figures of the left falling victim to the primary techniques of the left throughout my lifetime – demonisation, smearing and name-calling, and “cancelling” as it is now termed, but just an extension of the old general shouting down and no platforming of dissidents.

27995 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 2, #486 of 586 🔗

Mark, not sure if you have seen this one yet – relates to discussion the other day about Professor Uhlig, University of Chicago-based editor of Journal of Political Economy. Well, his position on the board of the Chicago Federal Reserve has been terminated. To be frank, I was quite surprised that he was on the board, given the Chicago School economics stance is at odds with the uber-doves at the Chicago Fed. Let’s hope this weekend is nowhere like as bad as last weekend’s shooting fatalities in south Chicago!


28002 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #487 of 586 🔗

Hadn’t, thanks, TT. Tbh sacking for politically incorrect opinions has been prevalent for quite a wile now, but it is really now starting to affect the top levels quite significantly and for more mainstream opinions. How long will it be tolerated before effective resistance arises?

28010 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 2, #488 of 586 🔗

Pretty much every VC in the UK university sector is part of the Common Purpose club. Many are ‘professor’ in name only – several don’t even have earned (as opposed to upgraded for Oxbridge BAs) masters degrees, let alone ever having published articles in leading journals. But then the job is running a real estate investment trust with a light bit of teaching on the side! There needs to be a full-scale delayering of the political appointments across the whole of the public sector – it goes down quite far in many institutions, particularly in the university sector, and this is why it is so damaging.

28018 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #489 of 586 🔗

The long march through the institutions

28026 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, 2, #490 of 586 🔗

..indeed – they’ve finally come out the other side wearing Mao caps and carrying machetes.

28025 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #491 of 586 🔗

This chimes with a conversation I had years ago when curious about the massive building projects at the local university (a huge local employer). Playing fields, green space & surface car parking all under concrete “oh they decided they had to build or die” halls for increased student numbers. I heard that the borrowing needed was eye watering although other older estate was sold off as part repayment of loan.

28021 ▶▶▶ Ten, replying to Mark, #492 of 586 🔗

Far left models work intellectually but in practice always end up without exception ruled by the small elite that take advantage of the trust of people that put them there like JKR.

28023 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, #493 of 586 🔗

I agree. They don’t deserve our support – they deserve our contempt. Unless they completely change their ways and declare their full support for the free speech principle, their plight is their own, because they don’t support free speech. Why they ever thought that this would never rebound to their disadvantage is something for them to explain – because anyone can cause offence to anyone with their speech.

28024 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Mark, 3, #494 of 586 🔗

Well, evangelists burned Beatles records, didn’t stop ’em. Nazis burned books,, didn’t stop writers. It’s just an hysterical reaction by people who can’t think. You know, I know, everyone on these pages know, that history is riddled with power grabs by manipulation of the masses. And I wish people would stop using ‘left’ and ‘right’ in all encompassing ways. I’d love to see a definition of the ‘left’. As someone of that inclination I took issue with Rowling regarding her attitude to Corbyn (and told her so), I stand right behind her on this. The left does not have a blanket identity.

28032 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 1, #495 of 586 🔗

Regarding left and right, if you feel like it maybe you could expand on what your personal version of “left” looks like. I tend to agree that attributing blanket identity to groups is not helpful, but one could argue that the term “left” in this case is being used to refer to a certain type of “left”, and is being used as a shorthand for a set of beliefs and attitudes commonly held by those in this “left”. I am interested to try and identify what the common ground could be here, given that we all feel a good deal of common ground anyway in our views on the reaction to the virus situation.

28039 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella, 1, #496 of 586 🔗

The idea that ideas etc cannot be defeated by censorship is pretty suspect – a clear case of survivor bias imo. Obviously censorship didn’t stop the ideas that are now established. Though it’s a comforting notion.

As for left/right, generally a generalisation holds true for most but not all. The left/right notion is no exception. In social and cultural terms, it’s progressives versus conservatives, broadly. And there are attitudes, approaches, techniques etc that are common to or characteristic of people on one or other side of that line.

But clearly there are exceptions, and furthermore one does not have to stay on one side of the line, or even be fully of one or the other.

The experience here is very typical – there are plenty of people here from either side of the left/right divide who recognise the folly of lockdown. The BLM issue is a little less bipartisan, because people on the left find it harder to see past the lies of antiracism and BLM, but on the other hand there are plenty on the right who are equally challenged on that topic – it’s one we’ve been collectively very heavily propagandised on for decades.

Here’s an example of a writer very much on the left/liberal side of the divide, Matt Taibi, making some excellent points about the excesses of the current frenzy of illiberal leftism (after a couple of paragraphs of inevitable trump-bashing):

The American Press Is Destroying Itself

28099 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bella, 1, #497 of 586 🔗

It’s probably more classic libertarians and those who support small government and free speech (which was once a cornerstone of the Democrat and Labour left) versus the “liberals” who are liberal-minded with regard to sex, i.e., anything goes, including children, but completely intolerant of any opposing views, speech, or ideology. They have pushed identity politics.
The intolerant far left are now the enemies of free speech, and are opposed to reality and science. They want equality of outcome, and say any that doesn’t produce that is “racism” or “sexism” etc. They support collectivism rather than individualism.

28120 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lms23, #498 of 586 🔗

I think you’ve got a strange understanding of the proper meaning of the word “liberal”. I would describe myself as a liberal (small ‘l’) and as right-of-centre. John Stuart Mill was a liberal. Burke was a liberal. I don’t pretend to have nearly as developed a philosophy of either of them, but I don’t think any of the 3 of us would describe the world view as “anything goes, including children”.

28110 ▶▶▶▶ Ten, replying to Bella, #499 of 586 🔗

Huh? and if no one had of stopped them they would have continued to burn every book in history that didn’t agree with them. Then they would have found those writers and ‘terrorist’ and rounded them up.
If the left doesn’t have a blanket identity then I’m sure you will agree neither does the right.

27986 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Ten, 5, #500 of 586 🔗

There’s very strong schadenfreude with this one. Although I don’t do twitter I’ve seen many references to JKR’s ultra-woke, snide, nasty, sarcastic, sniping, virtue-signalling tweets over the last few years. That she is getting a taste of her own medicine is rather delicious.

27987 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ten, 6, #501 of 586 🔗

Superficially, she has been rounded on for ‘calling a spade a spade’. The irony is that the various ‘virtues’ that these typical virtue signallers espouse at some point become mutually exclusive.

28020 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ten, 1, #502 of 586 🔗

Yep it’s Far Left Fascism. We see it all around us now and it is supported by mainstream media – the Mail, Times, Evening Standard, BBC, Sky, ITV and mainstream commentators, traitors to their culture. These fools think they are playing a giant game of Jenga and that they can pull out pieces of our culture without it collapsing on them because they are so clever. As we know – eventually if you pull out enough pieces the tower will collapse.

Fools like Bear Grylls and Max Hastings (I see from the Sunday papers) think they can play along with this game and not make any personal sacrifices. They clearly have no clue what enemy they are up against.

28056 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to OKUK, #503 of 586 🔗

Don’t think a son should suffer from the crimes of a father, but..

28079 ▶▶▶ JeremyH, replying to OKUK, #504 of 586 🔗
28115 ▶▶▶ Ten, replying to OKUK, #505 of 586 🔗

For me far left fascism eventually turns to far right fascism. Far lefts more uglier unelected cousin.

28006 JASA, replying to JASA, 10, #506 of 586 🔗

I’ve posted this elsewhere, but I think the Simon Dolan ‘revelation’ could be big, if it allows independent schools to reopen fully. The only reason they haven’t is their insurers’ interpretation of what has been said by the government, but in light of this revelation it looks like it is all recommendations, so hopefully the insurers will change their view. If they don’t, then the independent schools can put pressure on them. Once independent schools reopen, things really change. If the government haven’t actually closed the schools, then the local authorities can surely be sued?

The government are clearly going to ague the same thing in relation to everything else. The 2m distancing is just a recommendation, yet all other guidance is based on it. No law can be based on a recommendation, so everything falls apart. We all just need to challenge and resist everything. There isn’t anything that they can do.

The government have relied on compliance and that has now be shown by this to be all it is. The government are in effect blaming us.

28007 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JASA, 5, #507 of 586 🔗

Agree! Can someone start sharing Simon’s revelations with some independent schools or their association?

28031 ▶▶▶ JASA, replying to Carrie, 2, #508 of 586 🔗

Yes. I’ve just written a couple of e-mails.

28150 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JASA, #509 of 586 🔗

Please also share Simon’s latest post about the gagging clause some teachers have been asked to sign!

28051 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to JASA, 12, #510 of 586 🔗

We need lord sumption to sort it all out. He’s argued all along about the difference between law and guidelines. I’ve said about the 2 m thing being a guideline to people until I’m blue in the face but they’re convinced it’s a law. The brainwashing means that people think it is law. Someone with a greater mind than mine will be needed to untangle it all, in other words whilst we know that it’s obvious that people have been caused to think that it is law, even though it isn’t, this must now be proven since the government will deny it. Does that make sense? But when someone like Johnson says you must do something it sure sounds like a law. I think lord sumption has said something about ministers recommendations should not be construed as law. It’s like the whole hugging thing by Hancock, people effectively think they can’t hug but it’s not against the law. The way this government has messed with people’s minds is despicable and deplorable in the extreme. I wish people would get hold of this and start to legitimately protest about it.

28054 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Moomin, 8, #511 of 586 🔗

The government relies on social shaming to make it a de facto law. We’ve seen this before, where the government is happy to let the twittermob become its enforcers without having to attempt to put through controversial legislation.

28060 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Moomin, 1, #512 of 586 🔗

For us in Wales, it is a law. Not sure what Grandpa Drakeford will do when Boris & co drops the 2 metre thing in the next couple of weeks but he has said he will follow the science…

28077 ▶▶▶▶ JeremyH, replying to The Spingler, #513 of 586 🔗

Given that the proper science doesn’t even support lockdown I hope he’ll realise that and say “to hell with rules”. The people have a duty to point this out and enforce the actual science for themselves if their local government won’t.

28104 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, 1, #514 of 586 🔗

He wouldn’t recignise science uf it hit him over the head with a baseball bat, which us what needs to be done asap.

28086 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Moomin, 1, #515 of 586 🔗

Out of interest, let’s say the UK does keep these stupid rules… in spite of large numbers of countries allowing everyday life to return to ‘normal’ (the old normal, not a new one). Does the government think that other countries will eventually ‘see the light’ and adopt the same rules as the UK? The UK will look completely stupid if all these rules carry on much longer – is that what the government wants? And if so, why?

28090 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JASA, 2, #516 of 586 🔗

This has just appeared on Simon Dolan’s Twitter feed, plus the link below – looks like his legal challenge is already having an effect! :
‘Boris Johnson is set to announce primary pupils from ALL years can return before summer
What a coincidence’

28139 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, #517 of 586 🔗

Yes but 15 max. per class. They will not drop the 2m rule because, as we all know, children are in such danger from this ‘awful virus’. There will be no progress until all social-distancing is dropped and some kind of sanity returns.

28142 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #518 of 586 🔗

The 2m distance is also not law, it is guidance, a recommendation. I think Simon intends to submit it to the same legal scrutiny, so it is likely to go.. Remember too that hardly any children (15 I believe?) without co-morbidities have died from Covid 19..

28145 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 1, #519 of 586 🔗

Carrie, I think that’s what I was trying to say:

There will be no progress until all social-distancing is dropped and some kind of sanity returns.

28144 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #520 of 586 🔗

Also, Simon has now posted this:
Teachers have been made to sign a gagging clause!

28149 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 1, #521 of 586 🔗

Shocking but, somehow, this doesn’t surprise me. Thanks for posting – I will share this info around.

Please believe I’m a 100% LS, as my several posts on here will attest.

28151 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #522 of 586 🔗

Oh, I’m not doubting you Miriam!

28156 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, #523 of 586 🔗

Gagging clause or not, I’m convinced that the real problem is 1) politically motivated awkward behaviour by the teachers’ unions (encouraged by and led by the Labour Party) and by labour-led local authorities; 2) genuine but baseless and artificially-created fear on the part of the teachers themselves; 3) appalling leadership, baffling lack of communication and stubborn refusal to share “the science” on the part of the Conservative government

28147 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #524 of 586 🔗

Staff is going to be the problem. My younger boy (year 1) is back and my elder boy (year 3) is not. Year 1 (along with reception and year six) each has two classes and each class has been split into two “bubbles”. One bubble is in on Monday and Tuesday and another on Thursday and Friday. Wednesday is for deep cleaning (4 days a week we educate children. On the other day we do something expensive and pointless).

So, 4 days a week, the school is half full, so there is definitely physical space to get all the other years back in on the same basis. But they’re using twice as many teachers as they normally would – so nearly all of the teaching staff is already accounted for. If you accept (I don’t) that you can’t share teachers between ‘bubbles’ then you simply don’t have enough teachers.

28148 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, #525 of 586 🔗

But if the 2m distancing rule goes then it will be easier!

28166 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, #526 of 586 🔗

Surely, it’s the only way?

28167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #527 of 586 🔗

I totally agree! I was responding to Matt’s post above regarding lack of teachers..

28176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, #528 of 586 🔗

I’m not sure. The interaction between the 2M “rule” and bubble sizes isn’t at all clear to me. On the one hand you can fit fewer 6-year-olds into a given space if you’re expecting them to be 2 metres apart, clearly. On the other hand, there seems to be a general acceptance that you can’t keep a group of 6-year-olds 2 metres apart anyway.

I think the theory of the reduced-sized bubble is based more on the idea of cross-contamination between households – 15 households meeting and exchanging germs is safer than 30 household meeting and exchanging germs (my older boy’s year has a set of twins, but this is unusual, clearly). Then add in the idea that a single adult (teacher) could act as a vector between two separate groups of kids and so that teacher can’t teach _both_ bubbles.

The only answer really is to settle the general panic.

28012 Nobody2020, 7, #529 of 586 🔗

For a while now I’ve considered the internet as my second brain. Rather than waste valuable brain space holding knowledge I can simply look it up as and when I need it.

People talking of the Borg and Hivemind thinking has made me realise something. The internet, social media in particular, for many is not just a second brain, it is fast becoming their main brain.

When I became a father I was confused as to why there were so many books and articles giving guidance on how be a father/mother to a newborn baby. What did parents do before this essential knowledge was so readily available? By all rights the human race must have been lucky to get this far without such guidance.

This is just one example out of countless other situations where thinking for yourself is no longer required. The internet will do the thinking for you. It’s not even necessary to do the research yourself, simply ask on the internet and somebody will come back with the answer for you.

I could probably write a thesis on this but I’m sure you can think up your own examples of this in action.

28014 Harriet, replying to Harriet, 1, #530 of 586 🔗


FOI was refused by the Cabinet Office – extract of their letter below.

Therefore, the information you have requested regarding the costs of the campaign and
the companies involved is being withheld as it is exempt under Section 22(1)(a) of the
Freedom  Of  Information  Act.  Section  22(1)(a)  exempts  information if it is held by the public authority with a view to its publication at a future date.

28155 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Harriet, 1, #531 of 586 🔗

NHS cv19 advertisements seem to have gone from YT from this morning. Maybe the NHS advertising budget is exhausted.

28163 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, #532 of 586 🔗

Hope so!

28022 Mark, 1, #533 of 586 🔗

Professor explains why he’s ‘a bit skeptical’ of idea of ‘systemic or institutional racism’

More hard truths about the lies underlying our current state of cultural collapse.

28030 Awkward Git, #534 of 586 🔗

Adam’s petitions have all passed the “vetting” and are taking signatures:

Allow pubs and restaurants to operate without COVID-19 restrictions

Allow cinemas and theatres to operate without COVID-19 restrictions

Allow sports venues to operate without COVID-19 restrictions

Allow tourist attractions to operate without COVID-19 restrictions

Allow hotels and guest houses to operate without COVID-19 restrictions

Allow retailers to operate without COVID-19 restrictions

28044 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 14, #535 of 586 🔗

Lots of Big Lies out there now:

  1. “The people of Britain made unjust gains from slavery and empire.” This is total crap. The vast majority of people never benefitted from slaving or empire. It was probably quite the reverse. As soon as we jettisoned our empire in fact life improved hugely for ordinary people in the 1940s, 50s and 60s. The beneficiaries were mainly the sort of people who write for the Guardian – people from landed and upper middle class backgrounds who now have a guilty conscience. It’s nothing to do with the rest of us who never voted for slavery or empire.
  2. “White British people are racists.” Absolute nonsense. As can be demonstrated by our rate of outmarriage/partnering from white ethnic groups,the UK is probably the least racist country on Earth. How much outmarriage is there in Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Russia, China and India?
  3. “There is systematic racist discrimination in all sectors of British society” Total bollocks. As can be seen by our TV presenters and celebrities, our acting profession, our popular music, our lawyers, our doctors, and our businesses, all sectors are open to people of all races. This is not the same thing as saying there will be an equal outcome, any more than there will be an equal outcome for all in the 100 metres Olympics final.
  4. “Racism caused excess BAME deaths from Covid-19”. Absolute tosh based on grievance mongering.

28075 ▶▶ JeremyH, replying to OKUK, #536 of 586 🔗

The real truth is that if they want to get angry about racism, they should be angry about lockdown. BAME people are typically poor, usually with less stable jobs than whites and living in lower quality accomodation with less chance of green space nearby and more likely to be reliant on (absent in lockdown) public transport and not own a car to get to green space further away. BAME people are also more likely to be harassed by UK police, though not as in danger as from US police. Anyone claiming to be anti-racist should be standing up against the lockdown before worrying about any other issue.

28078 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to OKUK, 1, #537 of 586 🔗

“any more than there will be an equal outcome for all in the 100 metres Olympics final.”

Which brought an image of all the runners holding hands as they cross the finish line together…

I’d say ignore all the blatant race baiting if it weren’t for the fact that it’s getting people sacked, bullied, etc.

28122 ▶▶ Ten, replying to OKUK, 1, #538 of 586 🔗

To say that people of our generation have benefited from slavery is like saying its our fault we were born. Think about that for a moment how can we be blamed for something that happened before we were even born. If there is fault lets work on a fairer system for tomorrow and learn from the past.

28126 ▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, #539 of 586 🔗

the UK is probably the least racist country on Earth

Trying to get this point across to the majority is very similar to trying to explain to coronapanickers that we should not be trashing our economy out of fear of this disease.

“antiracist laws and mobbing/lockdown laws are trashing our liberty and society and economy”

  • Yes, but what about victims of racism/people who die of covid?

“There’s no evidence that racism/covid is anything like a big problem, there have never been societies less racist/safer from disease than ours”

  • Yes, but what about these individuals who have experienced racism/have caught covid?

“It’s always unfortunate for a few, but we can’t build our whole society around preventing every incidence of racism/disease because doing so does damage disproportionate to the problem.”

  • But what about the victims? Don’t you care about people?

Ye Gods!

In both cases there are people who, by inclination or by virtue of their personal, social or economic or political situation, benefit from pushing the problem as one that requires panic responses, and many such people are in very powerful media and other positions. And for various cultural reasons, too many people are unable to rationally assess the underlying truth on these issues. Rather they are emotionally directed to respond sympathetically to the panic message.

And they are, as a writer on this site once described, hyper-rational on these topics. You cannot prove to them that the problem they are approving panic responses to is not serious because they can always find individual examples or risks to blow out of proportion in response. No matter how many studies you point to showing that covid is not much more dangerous than flu or that there is no systematic racist police killing, or that systemic or structural racism is largely a fantasy, they will never listen, because there is always some residual risk or hard case to point to and they can always dismiss you as a heartless or racist person whose evidence is, to them, thereby worthless.

Because you are arguing against antiracism/coronapanic you are a racist/heartless person. Because you are heartless/racist, you are a bad person. Because you are a bad person, nothing you say can be listened to, in fact your words are actually dangerous and should be censored.

Oh look, there’s no evidence against coronapanic/antiracism.

28045 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 11, #540 of 586 🔗

According to The Guardian, antisocial distancing may well be here to stay:


It took four people to write this article bullshit. At least, I hope it’s bullshit, but in our brave new world, who knows? There seems to be a strong body of opinion in favour of this madness to go on indefinitely.

28048 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Tenchy, 15, #541 of 586 🔗

I reckon it’ll topple by the end of the week. The Isle of Man is knocking it on the head tomorrow so I reckon we’ll follow fairly soon after as hopefully people won’t stand for it. The only thing stopping it is how to explain to businesses that have spent a lot of money on anti social distancing stuff that it’s now no longer needed! They do love making rods for their own backs don’t they!

28072 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Moomin, 12, #542 of 586 🔗

You say that, but I haven’t seen a single act of dissent or irritation, people still sheepishly wait in line to enter nearly empty shops. I didn’t at Lidl today, I waited for 10 mins and then barged in. The man on the door followed me in to try to stop me. I told him I didn’t need to be ushered, I could social distance without being herded and asked what he was going to do about it, anyway. I was then watched by him throughout my shop til I left. No one is dissenting, people even social distance in their own gardens, like Puritans afraid that God is watching. It will not return to normal. It wasn’t normal before, we have become a species unable to connect with each other, we rather the internet over friends, sex, books and family. This was inevitable and we took ourselves here. I simple won’t shop, won’t visit and won’t engage with organisations that seek to coerce me without just cause.

28114 ▶▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to Cruella, 1, #543 of 586 🔗

You’re right that it wasn’t normal before, but I’d like to think this will prove to people how much we need workmates, shopping, days out etc. We have been sleepwalking into this and may have woken up before it’s too late.

28119 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cruella, 1, #544 of 586 🔗

Might it change if all shops are like Primark and implement this?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=XCo_IPMrQ9g&feature=emb_logo
A few of these experiences might just wake people up…

28138 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cruella, 1, #545 of 586 🔗

Yes, I agree, Cruella. We got on the bus on Friday (5 of us on it with half the seats made ‘unavailable’.) I sat on a forbidden seat, nowhere near anyone else and got told off by the driver, a miserable git if ever there was one, and had to move. There were 2 muzzle-wearers, one about 10 and the other about 18, FFS. Apparently, the bus drivers are now being forced to wear them on school buses and they’ve been told to make the kids wear them. There was a fatal crash between a bus and a lorry round here on Friday. How will oxygen-deprived drivers go on?

Today, we went 1 stop on the train, about 12 mins, and it was horrible, just horrible. Only about 12 seats in the whole carriage not covered with ‘don’t use’ cloths and 8 muzzle-wearers staring into space when we got on, all of them very young. You are greeted at the station by huge notices with a muzzled blank face on them and an order: ‘Cover your face’. It is crying out to be graffiti-ed and I have a funny feeling it just might be! However, I can bet that nobody else will see anything wrong with this order and they’ll go along with it for ‘their safety’.

I am dreading shopping under these circumstances and like a lot of you will not be going in any shop imposing Nazi rules or muzzles. (I’ve already posted about the stupid shenanigans in the almost-empty shopping mall in Buxton.) I can’t face using buses and trains until this crap ends. I am old but I’ll bloody cycle to Buxton along the hilly A6 to shop if I need to and that’s what it takes!

I was gung-ho last week about not wearing a muzzle on P.T. (I have an asthma get-out clause) but I realise it’s actually not about me, it’s the chilling compliance with and obedience to arbitrary and draconian rules which I can’t stand. I realise I need to keep away from this hell as much as I can to avoid going bonkers. My O.H. thinks the opposite, he says we owe it to the brainwashed to challenge the awfulness on P.T.. So we’ll see. . .

To end on a happier note, after the awful train ride we walked home about 12 miles over Kinder. There were hundreds of people out, including gangs of young people, all close together. People were friendly and jolly with very little ‘swerving’ and no muzzles! The weather was amazing, birdsong everywhere (larks, curlews, ravens) and we even heard a cuckoo, the first in 6 years!

28152 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #546 of 586 🔗

Was in the Peak District on Saturday, only saw one bus in Glossop the lady who got off was not wearing a muzzle.

Lots of people out and about, did not notice a single muzzle. Hikers, bikers, all good except for in the towns and villages where normally the local economy would be taking advantage of these visitors most shops are closed.

anyone who knows the Hope valley area will know how busy the area is on a summer Saturday when the weather is good.

28164 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Dave #KBF, #547 of 586 🔗

Most of the Saturday services in Glossop and elsewhere have been cut. Unfortunately, the pubs and cafes can’t take advantage of the 100s of visitors – a bit of take-away, at best.

I mentioned the muzzles on buses because they were a rare sight until last week. I fear that most people will comply, sadly.

28141 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cruella, #548 of 586 🔗

I did similar in Pets at home, think I may now be banned for over stepping the 2M mark.

28234 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Cruella, #549 of 586 🔗

Fair point, I’m just on one of my rare optimistic days about this! We definitely need dissent, it’s just that the veil over people’s eyes is so thick and blinding. I won’t be going shopping anytime soon if this nonsense continues. I still can’t believe how far we’ve degenerated in such a short space of time.

28261 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cruella, #550 of 586 🔗

I don’t know which part of the world you live in but where I am on the south coast people don’t care.Okay regs may insist shops have to have all the ridiculous signage but no-one is doing any distancing in queues etc. I’m having socials with people are we’re not doing it either.

28091 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Moomin, 6, #551 of 586 🔗

There appears to be zero resistance from businesses against these absurd and unnecessary restrictions. They are all falling over each other to prove how “safe” they are. Fuck ’em.

28094 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to paulito, 4, #552 of 586 🔗

You’d think some of the bigger firms would be putting pressure on. Perhaps they are, privately, but it’s disappointing. They should be fighting for their survival. What are they afraid of? Maybe they don’t want to be seen to be money-grabbing and heartless, and are hoping it will all blow over soon. Dangerous game.

28140 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Moomin, #553 of 586 🔗

Do not know if this has already been posted; big retail gears up for the crowds returning.


28055 ▶▶ karate56, replying to Tenchy, 7, #554 of 586 🔗

It looks like students or interns wrote this article, they even drew the nice diagrams. I’d give this bollocks a few weeks at most. These raft of non essential shops trying to enforce this will simply go under. Only mental, desperate people will try and high street shop under these conditions. Either the shops will fold or people will just ignore this shit. I’d guess even hardened lockdown fascists will tire of this comedy eventually.

28059 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to karate56, 13, #555 of 586 🔗

Out and about most people I come across seem to be behaving normally and ignoring ridiculous social distancing rules. People are going back to normal, whatever the government says publicly. Of course there will always be the lockdown zealots but they are more than welcome to stay at home – permanently and leave the rest of the world to get on with life

28085 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to The Spingler, 1, #556 of 586 🔗

Exactly. Let them wither away hiding from the world.

28095 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karate56, 4, #557 of 586 🔗

I hope they do go under. Trouble is, it means that businesses like mine that don’t subscribe to this bollocks might too because of the decreased foot-fall: they deserve it, I don’t.

Just had the most dispiriting experience in my local garden centre. I wouldn’t mind but at least if these people feel the need to enforce this tripe, they could at least do it with a modicum of good manners. I behaved myself like a good girl, kept 2 metres away from the bloke in front of me who was eyeing me suspiciously the whole time; put my basket of overpriced wilting crappy Cosmos (£6.50 for six, the profiteering bastards) in the right place and then had the receipt thrown at me and was then old off because I hadn’t retrieved my basket from the correct designated area. That’s it for me there: never again.

28096 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 1, #558 of 586 🔗

Or even *told* off. Typing at speed and pissed off …

28112 ▶▶▶▶ karate56, replying to kh1485, 2, #559 of 586 🔗

I feel completely sorry for you, being backed into a corner with insane HSE restrictions destroying you business. I think it will have to give, i just hope those businesses who hate this dystopia can somehow survive. As for shopping, i just mentally block all these insane rules. Theyre powerless to enforce them anyway bar banning you from a shop

28116 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to karate56, #560 of 586 🔗

Thanks, it’s so bloody difficult though. I mean I abided by their stupid rules because I was in their shop and I still got treated like shit! Special place in hell and all that …

28064 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Tenchy, 6, #561 of 586 🔗

Morons. Complete and utter morons. This thing is over bar the shouting. Am I the only one suspicious about an alleged new outbreak in Beijing? How convenient just when it has died down in Europe. I wonder if ‘experts’ are paid to disseminate projections about how we’ll behave post-Covid. What about post effing flu? How about how we behave after that? Has The Guardian really had to pay four people to write this drivel. P.S. pubs won’t work if you have to rely on bookings. Popping out for a pint on a whim is how pubs work. Or you pass one after a heavy’s day shopping and drop in. Society will die if there are no crowds attending events. That’s the point – morons! I’m talking about the ‘journalists’ and the ‘experts’ Tenchy, not you.

28046 HawkAnalyst, 2, #562 of 586 🔗


Inside the Swedish city that may prove the country’s strategy was right all along

It had the same lax restrictions as the capital of Sweden: schools remained open, residents carried on drinking in bars and cafes, and the doors of hairdressers and gyms were open throughout coronavirus.
But the Swedish coastal city of Malmö has shown a remarkably different result to Stockholm, with few fatalities and a remarkably low death rate.
Now some experts are questioning if the Malmo model proves that Sweden’s controversial move to avoid a lockdown was right all along.
Sweden has faced mounting criticism over its death rate. But Skane, the region around Malmo, had by last week registered just 17 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants due to coronavirus, slightly fewer than the 19 per 100,000 seen in the Capital Region of Denmark across the Oresund straits , even though Denmark went into heavy lockdown for two months from mid-March.

28050 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #563 of 586 🔗

Dutch Cooperation Made an ‘Intelligent Lockdown’ a Success


The Netherlands was opting for what Rutte termed an “intelligent lockdown.” In a nationally televised address, the first by a Dutch prime minister in more than four decades, he noted that restrictions have a price, even if they’re not immediately visible. “We will continue to search for the balance between needed measures and allowing ordinary life to continue as much as possible,” he said.

Rutte’s guiding principles—allowing people to go out but trusting them to practice safe distancing—asked a lot of his constituents. “The whole plan relied upon public support,” says Daan Roovers, a medical doctor, professor of philosophy at the University of Amsterdam, and the “thinker of the fatherland” (an unofficial title bestowed by Philosopher magazine and the newspaper De Trouw ). “When you impose a rule in the Netherlands, there will be a lot of resistance—we’re not that obedient,” she says. “So if you leave people a little room to maneuver for themselves, to think for themselves, you’ll gain more support and it will be more successful.”

28071 ▶▶ JeremyH, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #564 of 586 🔗

How I wish the British people could gain some sanity and pride ourselves on not being obedient.

28058 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #565 of 586 🔗


It’s not got the same ring to it – but I’m sure we’ll get used to it

28076 ▶▶ Skippy, replying to Major Panic, #566 of 586 🔗

Heil Billtler!

28061 karate56, replying to karate56, 6, #567 of 586 🔗

Has anyone noticed social distance car parking? Over the last few weeks people in my office are leaving spaces between car parking berths. Its bizarre. Now that everyone has been asked to return I’m intrigued to see what my co workers do now space isn’t available anymore. Will they put a massive mask on the front of their cars? How will they cope with the evil bubo eminating from adjacent cars? God forbid the terrible consequences of cars within 2m of eachother.

28062 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to karate56, 6, #568 of 586 🔗

As you drive into Stockton on Tees on the dual carriageway there’s a sign attached to a lamppost proclaiming “COVID-19 Maintain 2m Distance”. To all intents and purposes this looks like an instruction to motorists while driving. Local councils are so bloody stupid!

28063 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to karate56, 10, #569 of 586 🔗

Christ, the social-distancing car parking was the bit I made up in my earlier piss-take of the latest pronouncement from our local Business ‘Improvement’ District.

We have just received a supplementary message, reiterating all the crap they sent us over the past few days. There’s a lovely new sticker in acid-pink imploring everyone to ‘Stay Safe’. My response to them: just bugger right off …

28074 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to karate56, 2, #570 of 586 🔗

Our local garden centre recommends that. We may or may not take any notice, depending on spaces available.
People tend to try and leave a space in between to stop their car side doors getting damaged.

28113 ▶▶ guy153, replying to karate56, 3, #571 of 586 🔗

They had this in our Tesco for a while. Personally I am fully in favour of it if it means my car doesn’t get doored.

Facemasks for cars is a great idea. They would be like those dreadful comic relief noses people used to have. I think you can get poppies too. It’s a great platform for virtue signalling.

28066 Tony Rattray, #572 of 586 🔗

Guardian article today. However, as we know here, hindsight is no excuse. It did not have to be this way. I’m waiting for the first uk newspaper headline on the cover as such – no bets allowed – a sure thing in the comes weeks…

The past three months have proved it: the costs of lockdown are too high

Larry Elliott
Governments now know the economic, social, health and educational costs of full Covid-19 lockdowns scar too deeply
Sun 14 Jun 2020
T he past three months have been a global experiment to test whether modern economies built on social interaction are compatible with methods for tackling a pandemic that haven’t moved on much since the Black Death.
The results are now in. Lockdowns are toxic for a world in which people travel to work on buses or commuter trains, spend eight hours with their colleagues at the office, spend their lunch hour doing a bit of shopping, and head off in the evening to the pub, the theatre or the football.
Britain imposed severe restrictions towards the end of March. By the end of April, according to initial estimates by the Office for National Statistics, the economy had shrunk by 25% . If anything, that will prove to be optimistic because of the difficulty in getting data from companies forced to close.
Little by little, restrictions are being lifted but life is not going to return to normal all the while face masks are obligatory on public transport, diners have to stay two metres, or even a metre apart in restaurants and customers are discouraged to browse in shops.
Recovery will be even slower in the event of a second wave of infections, something the history of past pandemics suggests is probable. Covid-19 looks to be the sort of virus that sticks around. The number of new cases has been on a downward trend for weeks as a result of the severest curbs on the UK population ever imposed in peacetime and the arrival of warmer weather, but what happens in the autumn when restrictions have been further eased and the temperature starts to drop? If the trend is reversed, does the government lock down the economy a second time?
The answer is almost certainly not, even though the possibility spooked financial markets last week. Share prices crashed in the early stages of the crisis because investors grasped that measures taken to control the pandemic would result in much weaker corporate profits. Markets subsequently rallied fast because the tentative easing of lockdown restrictions raised hopes of a V-shaped recession. They then had second thoughts after an increase in new Covid-19 cases in a number of US states, mainly in the south. The city of Houston in Texas is mulling the possibility of again ordering people to stay in their homes. A partial shutdown has been imposed in Beijing after the city reported its first cases of Covid-19 in almost two months.
This is likely to be the template for the months ahead: a targeted, localised approach rather than a blanket ban on activity. Political leaders are going to be wary of reimposing full lockdowns, and they are right to be.
For a start, it has become clear that there is no such thing as “the science” when it comes to Covid-19. Immunologists have different views about infection rates and possible mortality outcomes in the same way that monetarists and Keynesians differ over economics.
Ministers felt they had no option but to adopt a safety-first approach when the crisis broke in March because there was a genuine risk that an uncontrolled pandemic would overwhelm the NHS. Every person who had contracted the virus was infecting three others.
Three months later things look different. The NHS coped and the extra capacity installed through the Nightingale hospitals was not needed. The R number – the reproduction rate at which the virus spreads – has come down from three to one or just below.
Evidence of the harmful side-effects of the lockdown have also emerged. The number of suicides is up. Domestic violence has increased. Mental health is suffering. Unemployment figures out this week will illustrate the human cost of a 20.4% drop in national output in just one month. The jobless total is heading for 3 million this summer despite the fact that the government is currently paying a third of the workforce.
As the Institute for Fiscal Studies pointed out last week, the crisis has deepened Britain’s class, ethnic, gender and generational divides . Young people are the least likely demographic group to be infected with Covid-19 but they are being particularly hard hit by the lockdown. The cost of school closures for all children, but especially those from poorer households, will be high. The 18-24 age group are most likely to end up unemployed because many of them work in hospitality, retailing and leisure.
The likelihood that Covid-19 will resurface a second and perhaps a third or fourth time makes the case for a measured approach to future lockdowns even stronger. All the evidence is that six months without going to school is more than twice as damaging as three months. The same applies to youth unemployment. The longer the spell out of work the deeper the scars.
Getting young people to abide by a second lockdown would be problematic. They want to work, to meet their mates, go on demonstrations and have some fun. They know they are low risk and will do their own cost-benefit analysis. Many will simply not comply, deciding instead that Covid-19 is a risk they are prepared to accept.
This is not a bad philosophy because until a vaccine is found there is a choice. Either countries such as Britain use effective track and trace systems to deal with local hotspots and let the rest of the country operate as near to normal as possible, or they shut everything down again. If they haven’t already done so, governments will conclude that the economic, social, health and educational costs of full lockdowns are too high and that somehow we have to learn to live with Covid-19.

28070 JeremyH, #573 of 586 🔗

Have seen some pretty distrubing summaries of the lockdown and public panic in various newspapers today.

First: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/mind/unshackling-2m-rule-isnt-just-politicians-people-have-shift/ a warning of where we’re headed if we don’t fully abadon lockdown fast, warning how people have lost the ability to weight risks and that fear-porn in the media has made them reliant on the state to do all such thinking for them.

Second: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/14/covid-19-turning-us-nation-irrational-panic-merchants/ another warning about the public panic, how people have wapred their words to insist that “we’re not like Sweden” even when before the panicdemic they were pointing at every aspect of Swedish life as a mdoel to copy, and how our nation is veering toward danegrous authoritarianism.

Third: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8418399/PETER-HITCHENS-Left-controls-lever-power-face-regime-change.html another warning of the rise of authoritarianism, ‘m not sure whethet to agree with his blaming on “the left” as I’ve seen right-wingers embracing dangerous authoritarianism too, but it clearly points out the suppression of individual rights since the Sept 11th atrocities of 2001, warns of the dictatorship of fear, BBC bias, and the rise of a state ever more dedicated to pushing micromanagment into people’s private lives “Stand there. Wait there. Don’t use cash. Don’t cross that line”.

28073 Awkward Git, 2, #574 of 586 🔗

Summary of research into wearing of masks.

It’s on dropbox as it is the only way this research stays “visible” on the internet. It keeps being hard to find on wherever the author posts it.


28088 swedenborg, 3, #575 of 586 🔗

From the bat virologist Chris von Csefalvay US. Seems to be quite outspoken. In the quite interesting twitterlink he is discussing the Covid-19 pandemic. He seemed to initially approved lockdown for at that time for an unknown virus but is now in great doubt of the benefit. He says that the riots and protests in the US proved the Covid-19 to be less dangerous than presumed.
Just two quotes
“There are no winners in this. The losers are all of us. This was the last quarantine America has ever had, or will ever have, in our lifetime. The next pandemic – we are overdue for two more in the next ten years – will burn unfettered through the population when it comes.”
“Yes. We will have at least one serious influenza pandemic and a highly transmissible henipavirus pandemic within the next 10 years.”

28105 ▶▶ MoH, replying to swedenborg, 1, #577 of 586 🔗

Larry Elliot is one of the few sane voices in the Guardian.

28125 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to swedenborg, #578 of 586 🔗

Well he’s good on the costs of lockdown but also convinced about 2nd, 3rd and 4th waves of the virus. He links to CBS and Guardian articles which say Texas and Beijing are considering re-imposing lockowns because more cases have been found.

Curiously, he seems to think young people won’t wear anoher lockdown. Well I hope he’s right because from what we see, they are the among the most compliant and terrified of anyone unless they’re in a C19-free zone aka a BLM demo.

In short, nothing much to see here.

28205 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #579 of 586 🔗

I posted somewhere else that I’m very suspicious about Beijing’s new cases. Too much of a coincidence as it slows to a halt in Europe. Haven’t read much lately about viral load but hasn’t this virus just worn itself out? I don’t believe a second wave will happen, unless it’s forced (i.e. manufactured)

28111 annie, 8, #580 of 586 🔗

Here’s a peach of a statement from Welsh Sinister Vaughan Gething:

“The safety of the people in Wales has always been the driving force in the choices we’ve made, right from the choice to stop large areas of NHS activity in the middle of March, to the way we’ve done the testing strategy, to where we are now.”

Yes. They stopped large areas of NHS activity in order to ensure the safety of the people in Wales.

I am speechless. (Seldom happens.)

28121 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 4, #581 of 586 🔗

I saw a bloke cycling up a really steep hill today and he was wearing a face mask. I’d love to know what his thought process was before he set off.

28127 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Hubes, 6, #582 of 586 🔗

“Better safe than sorry. If it saves one life. People will see me and think I’m a good person. Oh look, a rabbit…”

28128 matt, replying to matt, 6, #583 of 586 🔗

Just thought I would chip in with a report from the great outdoors. I drove the family from where we live in Greenwich, across south east London to Herne Hill today, to meet with a couple of my wife’s college friends.

Absolutely no evidence through the centres of New Cross, Peckham, or Denmark Hill of any effort having been put in to trying to prepare for Monday in any way – no stupid stickers or paint marks on the floor. No signs, no nothing. The street scenes looked completely normal except for the fact that there were more cyclists on the road (dangerous, because most of them hadn’t the faintest idea how to behave when cycling on a busy road). “Wear a mask” posters at the stations we passed, but that was about it. Some people on the streets in muzzles, but if it was as much as 5% I’d be surprised.

Met at the house of one of the friends (the other had walked over from Pimlico – he doesn’t drive) and went to the local park for a while. No hugging, but I’m fine with that. I’m not a big fan of hugs anyway. The park was normal and busy. Groups of people sitting around (no sign of 2M being observed anywhere); a group of lads in their 20s playing football (completely normal game of football). No swerving.

Went back to friend’s house and sat in her garden, but lots of wandering in and out of the house and nobody thought twice about it. It was warm and sunny – even in the old normal, the garden would have been the place to be.

She’s concerned because she has to choose between “bubbling” with her relatively new boyfriend and her sister, who lives alone and is having a difficult time of it. But the only reason she’s thinking so hard is that she’s a barrister and so getting done for something criminal is a no no (regardless of the odds of it happening. Another barrister friend had conniptions a couple of years ago because I made him run for a train and get on it for one stop, because we were late and didn’t have time to get a ticket).

Drove back through the Greenwich town centre out of curiosity. They’ve done something weird to the road layout “to help social distancing”, which has buggered up the traffic, but couldn’t see any difference it might have made to pedestrians (AKA “shoppers”). Queues outside a restaurant, weirdly – I assume they were doing takeaway.

All in all, not normal, but not far off at all.

28131 ▶▶ Bella, replying to matt, 1, #584 of 586 🔗

Sorry to be personal Matt but since you live in Greenwich…is the Richard the First (aka The Tolly) in Royal Hill going to survive?

28135 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bella, 1, #585 of 586 🔗

The Union is my usual pub (next door). I’m certain that will survive because it’s ultimately owned by Asahi (through Meantime – I never drink the meantime beers). I’m worried about the Tolly – it’s a popular place and it has a decent size and sheltered outdoors and enough room inside nowadays that you could get a sensible number of people inside even with a 2M rule, but they’ve invested a lot of money in refurb recently and so they must be short of cash.

28203 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to matt, #586 of 586 🔗

I used to drink there (Tolly) and the Ashburnham Arms. Can’t see that surviving. The Union I used to go to because I knew the guys who started the brewery. I guess they sold out. This is over eighteen years ago (when I left Greenwich).


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