Last updated2020-06-15T21:28:11



28827 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #1 of 576 🔗

Inside England’s first day back at the shops


One of the comments:

Robert Walters
15 Jun 2020 5:25PM

Looking at the lead picture, I am confused.
The BAME community are blaming the Government for higher number of deaths from Covid19.
Yet the crowd is predominately BAME ignoring social distancing.
If this is representative of the community it is not surprising that there are more deaths in the BAME community.

Maxwell StIves
15 Jun 2020 5:27PM

@ Robert Walters
In my admittedly limited experience the BAME community don’t seem to think ‘social distancing’ applies to them.
And having the built-in predisposition of ‘this must be the White Man’s fault’ means you don’t even bother looking in the mirror.

29033 ▶▶ sam, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #2 of 576 🔗

The BAME community are more likely to die from covid or any virus as living in the UK they become severely deficient in vit D during the winter and sometimes the summer. In the winter the sun is not strong enough for us to make vit D and everyone should supplement between October and April
Vit D deficiency is the reason we get flu in the winter not the summer.
If the NHS knew anything they would be telling people that but they are totally controlled by big pharma and would prefer to dish out drugs.

29055 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to sam, 4, #3 of 576 🔗

I emailed my MP about lack of Vitamin D causing deaths but received no response. She did however send me a lengthy email about stopping racial hated which I hadn’t initiated.

29083 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #4 of 576 🔗

Clearly didn’t read your email and is more interested in pointless virtue signalling than engaging in hard facts. No wonder our political class is so dire……

29113 ▶▶▶▶ Tony Prince, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #5 of 576 🔗

Meanwhile Kellogg’s removing picture of monkey from CoCo Pops packets…we’ve finely reached peak moronification….

29339 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tony Prince, 1, #6 of 576 🔗

Wow, a black woman suggesting a cartoon monkey is a racist slur? So what does Tony the tiger imply?
If the cap fits ….?

29367 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #7 of 576 🔗

My best friend when I was about 6 was the son of the chap who drew Tony the Tiger. True fact.

29482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #8 of 576 🔗

He was a grrrrrreat artist!

29086 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to sam, 5, #9 of 576 🔗

I remember two Labour MPs years ago raising that issue and yet they were lambasted even then for being racist rather than engaging with what they have to say. It’s appalling that we’ve not progressed beyond that.

If the NHS knew anything they would be telling people that but they are totally controlled by big pharma and would prefer to dish out drugs.

Well said. The big yellow thing in the sky is absolutely free but of course there’s no money in that.

29335 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, #10 of 576 🔗

I took out the 3-introductory subscription to the Torygraph when it was suggested here that some of the articles might be worth reading.

The voice of reason is present in the comments section but you have to plough through a nauseating plethora of posts by people who are not very bright but are obnoxiously smug, self-righteous and obviously financially secure. They are judgemental, rabidly racist and despise the poor with a scorn that makes me despair.

Thank goodness it only cost me £3 in total. I shan’t be taking out a full subscription!

28830 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #11 of 576 🔗

There is no scientific evidence to support the disastrous two-metre rule

More concerning was that only five of the 172 studies reported specifically on Covid exposure and proximity with infection. These studies included a total of merely 477 patients, with just 26 actual cases of infection. In only one study was a specific distance measure reported: “came within six feet of the index patient”. The result showed no effect of distance on contracting Covid.
In another study of 121 healthcare workers exposed to a patient with unrecognised Covid-19, three workers went on to test positive. Yet all three had unprotected patient contact: two never wore a facemask, respirator, eye protection or gown, making it impossible to identify the specific effects of distance. In the one study with the most substantial effect, no distance measure was reported. It was designed to test any association between sleep quality, stress and risk of infection, not distance.
On further independent inspection of 15 studies included in the review, we found multiple inconsistencies in the data, numerical mistakes and unsound methods in 13 of them. When assumptions over distance were made, we could not replicate any of them.
Might evidence from so-called super-spreading events show more promise? Following a choir practice in Skagit County, Washington, 32 cases of Covid were confirmed among the attendees. But how Covid was transmitted has not been established. Several opportunities for droplet transmission occurred, but also fomite transmission via objects which are likely to carry infection. The choir members did sit near to each other, but they also shared cookies and oranges. No one reported any physical contact. Vital information is missing.

28898 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #12 of 576 🔗

Posted this yesterday but worth repeating…

On the effectiveness of masks


28835 T. Prince, 5, #13 of 576 🔗

Posted this yesterday but worth repeating…
On the effectiveness of masks
Regardless of the comparatively low lethality of Covid19 in the general population (see above), there is still no scientific evidence for the effectiveness of masks in healthy and asymptomatic people in everyday life.
A cross-country study by the University of East Anglia came to the conclusion that a mask requirement was of no benefit and could even increase the risk of infection.
Two US professors and experts in respiratory and infection protection from the University of Illinois explain in an essay that respiratory masks have no effect in everyday life, neither as self-protection nor to protect third parties (so-called source control). The widespread use of masks didn’t prevent the outbreak in the Chinese city of Wuhan, either.
A study from April 2020 in the journal Annals of Internal Medicine came to the conclusion that neither fabric masks nor surgical masks can prevent the spread of the Covid19 virus by coughing.
An article in the New England Journal of Medicine from May 2020 also comes to the conclusion that respiratory masks offer little or no protection in everyday life. The call for a mask requirement is described as an “irrational fear reflex”.
A May 2020 meta-study on pandemic influenza published by the U.S. CDC also found that respirators had no effect.
The WHO moreover declared in June that truly “asymptomatic transmission” is in fact “very rare” , as data from numerous countries showed. Some of the few confirmed cases were due to direct body contact , i.e. shaking hands or kissing.
In Austria, the mask requirement in retail and catering will be lifted again from mid-June. A mask requirement was never introduced in Sweden because it “does not offer additional protection for the population”, as the health authority explained.
Numerous politicians, media people and police officers have already been caught putting on their respirators in a crowd especially for the television cameras or taking them off immediately when they believed that they were no longer being filmed.
In some cases there were brutal police attacks because a person allegedly “did not wear her mask properly”. In other cases, people with a disability who cannot and do not have to wear a mask, are not allowed to enter department stores .
Despite this evidence, a group called “masks4all” , which was founded by a “young leader” of the World Economic Forum (WEF) Davos, is advocating worldwide mask requirements. Several governments and the WHO appear to be responding to this campaign.
Many critics suspect that the masks are more likely to have a psychological or political function (“muzzle” or “visible sign of obedience”) and that wearing them frequently might even lead to additional health problems.
A study from Germany empirically showed that the introduction of face masks had no effect on infection rates (see graph). Only the city of Jena appeared to experience a strong decrease in infections, but Jena simultaneously introduced very strict quarantine regulations.

28837 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 12, #14 of 576 🔗

Two million children have done almost no home learning during lockdown, UCL report shows


One in five pupils in the UK – equating to around 2.3 million children – either did no home learning at all or less than one hour a day, according to a new report by University College London’s Institute of Education.
Researchers analysed the findings of a study in which over 4,500 British households were asked about their children’s schoolwork during the second half of April.
They found that children spent an average of 2.5 hours each day doing schoolwork. This is around half the amount suggested by previous research, which implies that “learning losses are much greater than feared”, academics said.
The poorest children, defined as those eligible for free school meals , did the least schoolwork at home. Only one in 10 spent more than four hours a day on schoolwork, compared to nearly one fifth (19 per cent) of their wealthier peers.

28890 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to HawkAnalyst, 12, #15 of 576 🔗

Wait until you read how many of them learn nothing when they’re in school as normal.

28973 ▶▶ paulito, replying to HawkAnalyst, 10, #16 of 576 🔗

And this obscene attack on children is being cheered on by the unions and so called left in The Labour Party and The Grauniad. Disgusting, shameless, lying hypocrites.

29034 ▶▶▶ sam, replying to paulito, 1, #17 of 576 🔗

intereting about the Grauniad
The Guardian Newspaper was founded by John Edward Taylor from the profits of Cotton Plantation Slavery and therefore should be shut down.

29061 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to sam, 1, #18 of 576 🔗

LOL I had read about that I wonder if the Guardian have made a large donation to BLM duly apologising for their white privilege and offering to burn ther offices down as a penance.

29405 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to HawkAnalyst, #19 of 576 🔗

Why bother with school?

Below is a link to the AQA website where you can find the exam papers from previous years. They are, to put it bluntly, pathetic.

As these are the exams for people who had had 12-14 years of education they are quite frankly pathetic and full of propaganda and indoctrination.


29407 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, #20 of 576 🔗

Try teaching your children to understand the propaganda and indoctrination and so pass their exams, while you’re also trying to hold down a full time job.

28839 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 18, #21 of 576 🔗

Additional comments about Facemask / muzzles as liftednfrom Legirons blog Underdogs bite upwards.
He is a microbiologist so has professional expertise in appropriate use of facemasks and what theybare actually good for:

Wearing a cloth mask all day virtually guarantees a repiratory infection. Medical masks have a hydrophobic layer because every exhalation carries a load of water vapour. The hydrophobic layer means the condensation resulting from that breath does not leave you with a damp mask over your face. Also, medics do not keep the mask on all day and they don’t put the same one on all the time.

A cloth mask will gradually get damp as you breathe through it. It won’t stop a virus. You might as well wear a sieve. What it will do is provide a damp environment, warmed by your face, that will delight any airborne bacteria or fungal spores that land on it. Keep that on for hours, let the populations grow, and inhale all those lovely infections. You’re going to feel a bit silly when you’re stuck in hospital with a fungal or bacterial infection caused by your futile attempt to stop a virus.

Those masks are to make you feel better about having other people around. That is all they achieve. They also achieve increased CO2 rebreathing, restricted oxygen intake, and a risk of other kinds of infection. All while doing sod all to stop a virus.

Okay, getting hold of proper medical masks isn’t going to be easy. If everyone stocked up we’d have the flour, pasta and toilet roll situation all over again (which I fully expect is happeneing now). Even the medical masks won’t stop a virus, which is why everyone wants an N95 mask.

However, N95 masks have to be properly fitted and they are, due to their fine pore size, hellish hard to breathe through. Keep that on all day and you’re going to pass out from CO2 toxicity long before you have to worry about any kind of infection.

Right, so let’s say a cloth mask is all you can get. You must get more than one and they must be washable. Minimum 60C wash. Forget about the bloody virus, the detergent will kill that at 30C. What you are trying to kill are the bacteria and fungi that your mask has been collecting while you wear it and you need at least a 60C wash for that. So no masks made of fleece that won’t survive a 60C wash.

Only wear it when you are around other people – and not the people you live with, it’s too late to worry about that now. Take it off whenever you are alone. Do not wear a mask of any kind when driving, there is a real danger of wooziness due to rebreathing CO2 which means you can’t concentrate. The virus cannot penetrate your windshield, trust me on that one.

If I am forced to wear a mask in a shop I will put it on when I go in and it’ll be straight off when I come out. Not that I’m likely to be visiting many shops, since CStM and I cannot shop together at the moment and we’re quite enjoying having the shopping delivered. Supermarkets are not likely to be much fun for a long time yet either.

Put the mask in the wash after ONE day of use. No, it is not okay to use it for three days in a row, those bacteria and fungi are still growing while it’s hung on a hook in your centrally heated home. Next day’s outing will add more. You need at least two masks so you can have one washed and drying and the other ready in case you want to go to the shops again.

If you are in a car alone or with members of your household you do not need a mask. The driver absolutely must not have one on. If you are cycling or running about in the countryside, well away from everyone, you do not need a mask and should not wear one. If you pass out, who’s going to find you?

Look at your memories of being in hospital. Admittedly I don’t have many of those but in the few I do have, none of the medical staff wore masks. Not the doctors, not the nurses and certainly not the patients. Masks were for surgery, and their purpose was to avoid contamination of an open wound by anything breathed out by the surgeon.

Suddenly everyone in hospital is wearing them. There was never any ‘PPE shortage’. Hospitals were stocked on the basis of normal use, not on the basis of every bugger in there wanting one. Stocks were not low. They were depleted rapidly because of a surge in demand. Restocking was hampered by that surge in demand happening in a hundred countries at the same time.

I could make a virus-stopping mask but I’m not really seeing the point any more. Well, I’m a special case I suppose, I have never really interacted with people very much and live where they can’t find me. If you live in a big city you can’t avoid that interaction. You also cannot escape the virus. Many of you have already had it, it can range from a cold to a really bad flu, but not many of you needed hospital treatment.

Not wearing a mask is about to become the New Smoking. They will point and scream at you, some shops will refuse entry, you’ll get nagged and harassed every chance they get, they will try to shame you because you are not one of the herd. You will need one, but do not wear it all the time. Especially if you have asthma or any kind of lung condition or have just recovered from any lung infection of any kind. That mask will restrict your breathing no matter what it’s made of and if your lungs are already struggling it will make that worse.

The mask is futile. Even N95, if you aren’t trained in its use. I note that all the mask wearers wear no eye protection even though we have known from the outset that this virus can get in that way. Yet it’s all about the mask.

29003 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #22 of 576 🔗

Great post

29008 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #23 of 576 🔗

Matt Ridley in a recent interview said of masks “Why not? They can’t do any harm…”

Very disappointing!

Something you don’t mention is that for spectacle wearers they can end up steaming up your vision. Your natural reaction will no doubt be to touch the mask and fiddle about with it – just before you fall off your bike.

29025 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #24 of 576 🔗

These people just don’t seem to understand that making coercive laws to control people’s behaviour, especially positive ones requiring people to do something as opposed to refrain from something, is inherently very costly and requires strong, direct justification.

Seems we’ve pretty much lost that understanding, as a society.

28841 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 40, #25 of 576 🔗

Wholeheartedly agree with Dr Ellen Townsend’s letter. As a young person I have felt utterly ignored throughout this whole debacle and it is hard to believe that the government is still carrying on with blanket measures when the scientific evidence shows that the risk is so clearly stratified.

Another interesting article in the Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/15/coronavirus-resistance-among-children-primed-12-common-colds/ – states that perhaps one of the reasons that children are barely affected by Covid-19 is due to the fact that they pick up so many colds throughout the year. It makes sense, children are constantly coming into contact with each other at school. But that’s a good thing, as this article shows. The government is currently stopping this natural immunity from forming.

Part of the reason I refuse to subscribe to all this muzzle wearing and constant hand-sanitising is because I am genuinely anxious about how much it will weaken my immune system. I don’t want to be more susceptible to all the horrible bugs going around during winter.

28848 ▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to Poppy, 3, #26 of 576 🔗

snap, just posted the same article

28870 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Poppy, #27 of 576 🔗

I tried to read this article but I have to pay.
Shame I wanted to share to my Facebook account to get this good info out there. Love this page and the comments 👍 shame you have to pay.

29356 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #28 of 576 🔗

That’s why I took out the Torygraph introductory subscription, £3 for three months – total.
Or there’s a one month free offer.

I’m afraid it’s the lack of paywall that attracts people to the Gradian – plus I think their online front page knocks spots off the Torygraph.

28891 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Poppy, 13, #29 of 576 🔗

Your generation has been betrayed and, in turn, betrays you. So many mollycoddled wastrels, perpetually shielded from life’s harsh realities, imbued with a sense of importance completely unconnected to their aptitude or talent. They hate anyone who dares tell them an uncomfortable truth.

And that general propensity is why my ears close when most of them start talking.

28902 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to AidanR, 2, #30 of 576 🔗

“They CRY when anyone dares tell them an uncomfortable truth”.

28925 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to AidanR, -15, #31 of 576 🔗

And because your a foolish old fart, so aptly demonstrated by that comment. Maybe you should listen more and talk less.

28945 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Cruella, 2, #32 of 576 🔗

maybe you should shut your fucking face if all that comes out it is shite, just a thought

28993 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Biker, #33 of 576 🔗

The biggest racist on this site telling others to shut up.

29004 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Skippy, replying to daveyp, #34 of 576 🔗

I think you’ll find I’m the biggest racist on this site. Marathons Triathlons, and basic struggles to survive.
quit your pathetic name calling, or are you a BLM idiot too?

29021 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Skippy, -2, #35 of 576 🔗

BLM idiot! Fucking lol

29041 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to daveyp, #36 of 576 🔗

Virtue signalling eh? A good look for a 14yr old girl. For you? Not so much.

29141 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to AidanR, -1, #37 of 576 🔗

How did I know that you’d be on about a good look for a 14 year old girl?

28989 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Cruella, -1, #38 of 576 🔗

I couldn’t agree more with you, this guy is a f*cking idiot!

29040 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Cruella, #39 of 576 🔗

OK Karen

28954 ▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to AidanR, 2, #40 of 576 🔗

This internecine generational warfare is exactly what the powers that be seek. It is most unfortunate that you’re playing into their ‘divide and rule’ strategy.

28988 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to AidanR, #41 of 576 🔗

“They hate anyone who dares tell them an uncomfortable truth?”

This coming from the person who was defending paedophile priests and vicars yesterday!!!!

29042 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to daveyp, #42 of 576 🔗

LOL Nice strawman you have there.

28904 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Poppy, 5, #43 of 576 🔗

Yes. Whatever the exact mechanism, the adaptive immune system has evolved to adapt to and train itself on whatever’s around.

Gupta mentioned this in her interview on Unherd. I think the idea is if you have a pandemic that seems to be much worse for everyone under 30 it implies that 30 years ago a previous (perhaps much milder) pandemic had primed everybody else.

The viruses evolve. In another 20 or 30 years there will probably be another Coronavirus or two from bats with spike proteins that bind to ACE2. A bit of cross-immunity from this one (which does not cause a severe illness in most people) is likely to be worth having.

There are cases where cross-immunity makes matters worse (it can happen with Dengue) but I believe these are the exception rather than the rule.

28962 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to guy153, 16, #44 of 576 🔗

Part of the reason I am disgustingly healthy most of the time, not seen a doctor in 20 years, is I am sure due to the fact that I spend my life amongst dirt, soil and bacteria. I have a smallholding so every day my hands are covered in muck, mud, soil and all kinds of microbes. I kiss my animals on the nose, they lick me, and we generally have a great time. I am outside in the sunshine. I do wash my hands before making a cuppa or having a biscuit, but that’s it. I would imagine gardening would have much of the same effect. I try to keep my stress levels low, eat good food not covered in pesticides, plenty of the right vitamins, minerals and iodine – we are all short on iodine nowadays and it’s a major problem. We need to keep our immune systems working like this otherwise we deplete them. Being too clean and sanitised is not good for anyone, unless you happen to be in an operating theatre.

28999 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #45 of 576 🔗

Some of those things we get infected with may be bad, but at least just as many are beneficial, so in the absence of knowledge about what specifically might be harmful the precautionary principle dictates that it’s better just to live normally. Kissing animals is good but stay away from the palm toddy.

29046 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #46 of 576 🔗

I worked with a woman decades ago who claimed the reason there was so much illness was because we were too clean. We’re far worse now so goodness knows where it will end. We need germs and bacteria for a healthy immune system and over sanitizing and mask wearing will weaken us.

29048 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #47 of 576 🔗

I’ve come across someone who said that as well and I’ve seen parents who are so neurotic about it that they sanitise everything before giving it to their kids. No wonder many of them have allergies that were almost nonexistent 30 years ago and catch every cold and bug going.

What’s also funny are these tourists and migrants from certain countries who stock up on bottled water and santise their hands like they have OCD. Granted its probably a force of habit from where they came from but I come from a developing country as well and I wasn’t raised like that – it was all done sensibly so me thinks there must be some sort of generational shift somewhere along the line.

29386 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #48 of 576 🔗

You might remember a sinister advert in the 1990s, where a toddler is about to pick up some food from its highchair table. The mother gasps in horror and sprays disinfectant everywhere.

All those ads about cleaning under the rim – and Dettol toilet wipes FFS.

Handgel was unkown when I was raising my kids. So hands were washed at home before meals but the subject never came up at picnics.

Babywipes were new and, on holiday, we did use those to clean hands after a trip to public loos with their inevitable absence of soap.
Otherwise, they were handy for removing chocolate from faces and ice cream that had dribbled down little hands.

There has been a systematic brainwashing campaign by the purveyors of toxic cleaning products and it’s become ingrained – my daughters-in-law are a classic example.

29081 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #49 of 576 🔗

Then we have probiotic yoghurt selling the idea that some bacteria is good for us. If it wasn’t advertised on TV we’d all be thinking all bacteria is bad despite all the bacteria in our belly buttons doing it’s best not to kill us.

29443 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella Donna, #50 of 576 🔗

And perhaps that’s what they want. Part of Gates’ population control agenda? Don’t – ever – wear a mask. If you have to travel tell them it gives you a panic attack. Simon Dolan: If you don’t feel comfortable wearing a mask on public transport, simply don’t wear it and if challenged say that under Part 1 Section 4 (a) of The Health Protection (CV, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) you are exempt as they cause you severe anxiety.

29075 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #51 of 576 🔗

I’d wager that a lot of us on here probably spent time playing in sand pits as children and there was no 5 second rule for dropped food, pick it up, give it a blow, rub it on your jumper and it’s good to eat again.

29369 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #52 of 576 🔗

Primary school teachers will no doubt tell you that it’s the scruffiest, smelliest kids who are never off sick.

28951 ▶▶ NothingIsBetterThanCash, replying to Poppy, 4, #53 of 576 🔗

Universities should be doubly fine to reopen, what with the colds of freshers flu (a wonderful pick and mix bag of every virus in every corner of the Uk and the globe at that time in september) everyone there, lecturers inlcuded, has likely had coronaviruses which could induce immunity to covid-19. That’s not even considering that if covid-19 were spreading several months earlier than beleived then it may have already swept through unis and given direct immunity to itself.

28980 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Poppy, 5, #54 of 576 🔗

The point about the benefits of coming into contact with viruses (and bacteria) seems largely forgotten in all this: our immune system is supposed to be fighting off bugs; the exercise does it good.

I recall reading many years ago a theory that the rise in auto-immune diseases in Western Countries may be owing to vaccination and the general lower prevalence of disease in our societies, leading to the immune system looking for a fight and thus turning on its own body. I think I’ve remembered this accurately, but stand to be corrected.

As for young children getting up to 12 colds a year, if mine are anything to go by this is an underestimate. And they pass them all on to me.

29490 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to TJN, #55 of 576 🔗

‘…leading to the immune system looking for a fight and thus turning on its own body.’ That’s one theory about CV19. That it stimulates immune system to overereact. https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-cytokine-storm-this-over-active-immune-response-could-be-behind-some-fatal-cases-of-covid-19-136878

29434 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Poppy, #56 of 576 🔗

Polly,, speaking as someone who is a lot older than you: we have ALL been ignored.

29457 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bella, 1, #57 of 576 🔗

So very true Bella – as a single woman in my mid 60s I get ignored every day. Sometimes I wonder if I still exist in this earthly body shell or whether I have simply become invisible.
And Polly, I do so agree with you about not weakening your immune system. I have been involved in complementary medicine for 30 years (I have been a practising clinical herbalist amongst other things) and I can tell you that keeping your immune system healthy is one of the very best things you can do to look after your body. That means not being “too” clean all the time. The only time I wash my hands thoroughly at the moment is when I have been in a shop or a petrol station or I am about to prepare food. Down at my smallholding I am likely dirty most of the day and I’m the healthiest person I know 😉 I’m still not happy if somebody sneezes into my face though. That’s just rude, especially at the moment. I have been taking precautions as I don’t particularly want this virus (although I actually think I’ve already had it back in February) but I would never willingly go as far as wearing a mask – horribly unhygienic.

28842 HawkAnalyst, #58 of 576 🔗
28846 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #59 of 576 🔗

Coronavirus resistance among children ‘primed’ by up to 12 common colds per yearExperts agree that the immune systems of young people may simply be better at reacting to new viruses


Children may be protected from coronavirus because they catch so many colds, scientists have suggested.
Figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) suggest children are just as likely to pick up the virus, but few ever develop serious disease, or even show symptoms.
Now scientists have suggested that children may be resistant because their immune systems are already well primed by the common cold.
The common cold is caused by four different types of coronavirus which circulate in the community and are largely harmless. But while adults pick up a cold around two to four times a year, school age children catch an average of 12 colds annually, studies have shown.

Professor Sir John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine, University of Oxford told the House of Lords Science and Technology Select Committee, that it may allow youngsters to build up some ongoing resistance that adults do not have.
“How you respond may be due to the state of your existing immunity to coronaviruses generally,” he told peers.
“There is an interesting speculation at the moment, that suggests that many people in young or middle aged groups may have T-cells that can already see coronavirus. It may well be able to provide some protection against this pathogen when it arrives.
“A lot of kids get seasonal coronaviruses and it’s pretty common in our population and many will have quite a strong immunity to coronaviruses generally.
“That is unproven, but there is evidence now for cross-reactivity at T-cell level at least, and that well might help dampen the effects of the virus when we get it.”
Studies have shown that by the age of four, some 70 per cent of children already have antibodies against seasonal coronavirus, which could offer important protection.
“It does raise questions about what herd immunity is in this population,” added Prof Bell. “It’s a very salient point and one that will send the modellers into a tailspin.”
Professor Adrian Hayday, Chair, Department of Immunobiology, King’s College London, Group Leader, Immunosurveillance Laboratory, Francis Crick Institute said the immune systems of young people may simply be better at reacting to new viruses.
“All adults past a certain age – 30 to 35 – eventually have no thymus so their T-cells work by looking at whether they have seen something before, whereas children are very good at seeing things that are completely unknown.
“The issue may be that children are able to see this as something fresh.”
The scientists also said that older people may suffer from immune cell ‘senescence’ where their immune cells start to shut down but are not cleared away and replaced with a working version. Cell senescence is implicated in many diseases of ageing and may be behind the ageing process itself.
But Prof Bell said for most people coronavirus was not a serious illness.
“The people who get severe disease and die, the vast majority are elderly people and when young people get this disease they tend not to suffer very much.
“That might be the state of people’s immune system at different ages. 70 per cent of the people who get this are completely asymptomatic, so at one end of the spectrum this is not a bad vial disease, at the other end it’s terrible.
“The vast majority of people who get this disease don’t even know they’ve had it.”

28849 ▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, -14, #60 of 576 🔗


28850 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to HawkAnalyst, 9, #61 of 576 🔗


28852 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Jonathan Castro, 16, #62 of 576 🔗

It’s English, Jim but not as we know it.

28872 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to arfurmo, 17, #63 of 576 🔗

It’s Neil Ferguson’s dodgy model!

28884 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to T. Prince, 13, #64 of 576 🔗

No, this code actually make sense!

28974 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to T. Prince, 1, #65 of 576 🔗

Yes, the new improved version.

28894 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to arfurmo, 8, #66 of 576 🔗

It’s a degree dissertation in critical gender studies.

28916 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Castro, 5, #67 of 576 🔗

Reminds me of Joe Biden rambling on as he tries to remember what it was they told him to say.

28885 ▶▶▶ Andy, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #68 of 576 🔗


28887 ▶▶▶ Scapes, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #69 of 576 🔗

Can’t argue with that

28961 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #70 of 576 🔗

Bill Gates has infiltrated our site! 😱

28984 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #71 of 576 🔗

Harsh but fair.

28851 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #72 of 576 🔗

Just watched that Carl Vernon video with his excellent commentary and that Primark woman looks more like a Nazi gauleiter or a Soviet apparatchik. It’s all virtue signalling nonsense.

I’ve always avoided Primark for their shoddy clothes and at my age, their cheap clothes, well, just look cheap and awkward. Watching this nightmare of a video just vindicates why I’ve always avoided them like the plague.

28857 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #73 of 576 🔗

Yes, but think of the opportunities for shoplifters – the security staff are distracted by bottles of hand sanitiser and shouting at people to follow the arrows and there you are in a face mask….

28875 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluemoon, 6, #74 of 576 🔗

My husband raised the issue of face masks and crime and your example is a perfect example – shoplifters can easily nick stuff and even CCTV will be useless and they won’t be able to make out who did it because people are masked.

28975 ▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #75 of 576 🔗

There is a 90% chance shoplifters will never be caught anyway even before the mask nonsense. The police basically don’t bother now. To busy policing twitter and speed cameras.

28976 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to steve, 1, #76 of 576 🔗

Agree. I used to volunteer in a charity shop and our manager used to work for the big high street chains; I recall him mentioning that their budgets and inventory were always adjusted to factor in good lost through shoplifting and its more the serial ones that they tend to focus on.

28863 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #77 of 576 🔗

Another good video from Carl Vernon today,


28893 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 1, #78 of 576 🔗

That was a good video – he’s very spot on with his commentary.

28855 Ian, replying to Ian, 52, #79 of 576 🔗

Having listened to Macron today, I have taken the liberty of writing a speech for Johnson. What chance we hear it this week? (None)

Dear citizens

Today I want to make a very important announcement. You will hear me apologise at various points, but I think it is right as your leader to accept when mistakes have been made. I, along with my colleagues, have always taken decisions based on good faith and what we thought was the best science. It is however becoming increasingly clear that the single minded pursuit of the eradication of COVID-19 has, perhaps inevitably, led to some unforeseen outcomes. We are now at a critical stage in our attempts to control this virus. This is the time to make the right decisions, evidence and risk based, that will I hope, enable us to look back on these last three months with many many regrets, but also, perhaps, some fondness.

The alternative is to head to dystopian Orwellian future where face masks, even if not compelled by law, become a must have accessory, and failure to wear one will be frowned on and considered distinctly un social. A future where our children no longer have the unalloyed joy we had as children playing tag with friends, running erratically and madly around the playground shouting and giggling. A future where our older children no longer learn to appreciate life through drama and music and playing competitive sport. A future where we stand in line, socially distanced, for essential and non essential shopping. A future where impromptu trips to a pub or restaurant are impossible and trips to the theatre or a concert a distant memory.

This is no longer about the economy or lives, the duality that some describe it as, but the bigger battle even than the virus, the battle to ensure we can go back, safely and with confidence, to the life, the full life, we had before COVID-19.

I want to start with some context. When the virus first appeared very little was known about it. On that basis we acted with what we believed at the time to be the right response. We believed that the virus was running out of control, that it was an indiscriminate killer, and our overriding priority was to protect our citizens. In hindsight, and with evidence based data, we know that is not the case. The ‘R’ number was already in decline when we went into lockdown and was probably already under 1.0. We know that because the death rate peaked less than two weeks later, far to soon for the lockdown to have had any effect. We believed that we were doing the right thing to protect lives by protecting our NHS. In fact the NHS was never at capacity and the decision to turn the elderly and frail out of hospital and into care homes was a catastrophic mistake that has led to significant unnecessary deaths, and for that I am profoundly sorry.

Indeed there is very little evidence that lockdown works at all. I hope you understand why, as your government, we acted to lockdown when so little was known and that we took the decisions we did. But when we look now at countries across the world, and regions within them, and the reality of decisions they took on lockdown from whether to lockdown at all, to lockdown severely or lightly, we know that there is no correlation to outcome. We also have evidence that follows lifting of lockdown. There is no ‘second wave’. That is true across Europe and in the USA. Perhaps the people who took their family’s to the beaches 2 weeks ago realised instinctively what we now know scientifically.

The virus does what viruses do, it peaks and it falls off. The infection curve in any country, lockdown or no lockdown is broadly, in fact uncannily similar. As humans we have broadly adapted to cope with the thousands of viruses that exist. Now we know so much more, I believe that we will with this virus, secure in the knowledge that with even the basic minimum of hygiene we can safely live normal, not any ‘new normal’ lives.

We also, as I have said, believed it to be a rampaging indiscriminate killer. Again, evidence based data helps us to understand that this is not the case. The disease overwhelmingly kills older people with cormorbities, that is other life threatening conditions. This is not like the spanish flu of 1918 where the average age of death was 28 and that killed 10’s of millions of people. The average age of death for Covid is 80, and almost all deaths are ‘with’ not ‘of’ COVID. The numbers of people who have died solely of Covid for any age group, are diminishingly small. If you are even reasonably fit and 65 or under you have more chance of being killed in a car crash, and for children and young people you are more likely to die being struck by lightening, four times more likely in fact. For those we know to be at more risk, we should redouble our efforts to protect them. I will address this later.

We also now know, with the benefit of observed data, that the chances of contracting the virus are low, and getting less, and even less for contracting it and being anything other than mildly poorly. You have a 1 in 1700 chance of catching it, probably less, and getting smaller. Just think about that. When was the last time you came across that number of people in a day, or even a week, unless you have been to concert or other large venue. We now know that the disease is all but eradicated from society, but does live on in hospitals. We now believe that it has always been the case that the disease is primarily nosocomial, that is it originates in and continues to exist mainly in hospitals.

That leads me on to social distancing and the wearing of masks. As I said at the beginning we are at a critical juncture. The decisions we take, together, now will profoundly influence the society we live in. I said that I would look again at the current 2m guidelines. I can now say that there isn’t a unanimous or even a majority scientific view on the benefits of social distancing at all, and very little indeed for 2m. The evidence, observed evidence not mathematically modelled conjecture, is that the virus thrives through regular and close contact. You are far more likely to get it from those you live with than from inadvertently touching a stranger or getting within any ‘safe space’. There really is no need to stand meekly in line at 2m. As I have said before your chances of catching it anyway are very small, your chances if you do of being really ill are then even smaller, and your chances of dying from it are so remote that they do not register statistically.

With regard to the impact of the 2m guidance on education, I am as moved as many of you are at seeing the impact that our guidance for schools has had. Being greeted by mask wearing adults. Having friend ‘bubbles’. Being taught in classes of no more than 15. Additionally, denying education to other children altogether was unnecessary, an overreaction. We know this because the observed evidence from other countries is that opening schools, fully, has no impact at all on the rate of viral transmission. Again I am profoundly sorry for the impact this decision has had on our children. We will redouble our efforts to ensure that all of our children and young people are able, over time, to catch up on the education they have missed.

With regards to masks. Again there is no settled science on the efficacy of masks against this, or any other virus. The wearing of masks has been compared to trying to stop mosquitos with chain link fence. Nonetheless I accept that some people feel more comfortable wearing them believing they give some protection against this and other viruses. To them I say that’s fine. Wear masks if you want to. But please don’t expect the rest of society to fall into line. It really isn’t necessary.

With regard to high risk groups, I acknowledge that we should have done more. The virus targets older people and those with underlying conditions. It can be, if not treated, lethal for these groups of people. We should ensure therefore that, until such time as the virus has completely run its course, all people who come into close and regular contact with this at risk group should be tested regularly. If at risk people want to continue to self isolate we will ensure that they have all the support they need. Alternatively of course if anybody that falls into this group wants to return to the full life they had before, seeing friends and family, hugging grandchildren and children then do it. There is no role for government in seeking to interfere in the life of our citizens.

Finally then a word about SAGE and the scientists we have been working with. I want to thank them for their contribution to our understanding. But it has become increasingly clear to us in government that many of the predictions they have made about the virus have been wrong, and increasingly there are other scientific voices that challenge many of the assumptions SAGE make, other voices that use observed evidence as the basis for their analysis. We tasked them with helping us to manage Covid, and it is now clear that the single minded focus on that has led to unintended consequences, we are now seeing more deaths from treatable cancer, from strokes and from other treatable conditions, as well as suicides. There is also evidence of increased mental health issues, depression and anxiety. Again, for all of this, I am profoundly sorry. It is our job as your elected government to make decisions that take account of all issues, not just one, and we have to now own up to our mistakes, and move the country on.

So tonight I announce that with immediate affect the government will rescind our emergency powers. That means that all of the guidance that stems from it is no longer necessary. I recognise that it might take time for everything to return to normal, but let us all work together in the spirit of rebuilding our great country and open our schools, open our businesses, our pubs, restaurants and theatres. Book your well earned holiday. Look forward with confidence and have a great summer

28856 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ian, 15, #80 of 576 🔗

A beautiful dream.
Why aren’t you running the country?

28879 ▶▶ Paul B, replying to Ian, 8, #81 of 576 🔗

So many mistakes, that people have been pointing out, not in hindsight I might add, but since March! That were he to give that speech it should end with his resignation. He might give it if a fair and honest public inquiry or the legal challenge is allowed to proceed but somehow I doubt it.

28892 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ian, 5, #82 of 576 🔗

I wish!!! If only……

28911 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ian, 5, #83 of 576 🔗

Send it to Boris!

28928 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Ian, -7, #84 of 576 🔗

Do ya feel better now?

28858 Ian P, 1, #85 of 576 🔗

Not sure Simon Dolan’s advice is correct. Relevant legislation is actually The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020; Part 2 Section 4 (a) (ii) “ P[erson] cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—without severe distress ”. Full text is at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/592/regulation/4/made

28860 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 14, #86 of 576 🔗
28910 ▶▶ Julian, replying to arfurmo, 14, #87 of 576 🔗

Khan – another leader who seems to be relishing his little bit of extra power a little too much for my liking.

28915 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Julian, 12, #88 of 576 🔗

I absolutely detest that man.

28927 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Gossamer, 9, #89 of 576 🔗

He’s hard to like. Glad to have left London. Really want to see how TFL is going to survive in anything like its present form, if this nonsense carries on. Ditto National Rail. Empty trains running up and down the line, all day every day, massive drop in revenue but not corresponding drop in expenditure.

29499 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, #90 of 576 🔗

Well we’re subsidising them

28972 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to arfurmo, 3, #91 of 576 🔗

He really needs to go. He’s done SFA about knife crime and a host of REAL problems bedeviling London but is quick to virtue signal with stunts against Trump and pandering to BLM.

28865 swedenborg, 3, #92 of 576 🔗

Interesting opinion piece by Rupert Darwall. About WHO’s dubious role and hidden agenda

28874 swedenborg, 7, #93 of 576 🔗

It doesn’t give you much confidence about our co-operation with China. Why does everything strange happen in relation with the Wuhan lab? Why does the Western world, prestigious medical journals, Big Pharma , NIH all co-operate with a totalitarian regime? According to reports today an estimated 200000 people are tested in Bejing due to the latest supposedly outbreak Covid-19 in the city. Reason being either imported salmon or from European traveller. Probably we’ll soon see 10 million lining up to be tested like in Wuhan. Will this robotlike treatment of citizen be the new normal in West too?

28876 HawkAnalyst, 1, #94 of 576 🔗

comment image ?imwidth=450

Telegraph cartoon

28881 Paul B, replying to Paul B, 17, #95 of 576 🔗

From the video and today’s update I think I will change my behavior after this. I’ve always been a bit of an ‘OCD germaphobe’, although not pathologically cleaning everyting, just avoiding people who are ill and not eating food 1 day past it’s ‘date’. Figured I didn’t want the discomfort of being ill for a few days, colds are awful when they drag on for weeks.

Now it seems I’m going to hug anyone who will let me and when the nieces and nephew come in for a kiss with a snotty nose, I’ll try not to wince!

28942 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Paul B, 3, #96 of 576 🔗

“I’ve always been a bit of an ‘OCD germaphobe’,”

It’s been posted here before, but in case you haven’t seen it, here’s the therapy you need:

George Carlin – Germs, Immune System

28882 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 12, #97 of 576 🔗

Why just now? There can be no doubt that Big Pharma is concerned about the bad news for them with retracted papers about HCQ. They are also concerned in the US, about out-patient treatment of Covid-19 with HCQ. They have invested a lot of money in Ramdesivir and also in the future vaccine. Any risk of the public not considering Covid-19 a serious threat is anathema for them. Expect the BBC/MSM propaganda machine in full throttle. We still don’t know if HCQ is effective but the amount of energy they use to crush a cheap competitor is extraordinary.

28912 ▶▶ Nel, replying to swedenborg, 5, #98 of 576 🔗

It’s all about the money

28978 ▶▶ paulito, replying to swedenborg, 5, #99 of 576 🔗

Big pharma has to be reined in. It’s not enough to fine them. Many CEOs of drug companies should be jailed. They have infiltrated and corrupted regulatory bodies, international organisations and bought off many in the scientific and medical communities. Thay are a blight on humanity.

28883 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 33, #100 of 576 🔗

As a professional youth worker for 11 years, I have to say since the inception of the Coalition government in 2010, the Tories have absolutely destroyed opportunities and services for young people. Youth work as a profession has been decimated, and it’s now only provided by charities.

Sadly the Tories continue to destroy life for young people with the ongoing closure of schools and lack of opportunities for them. Young people are the future and need to be invested in. The consequences of lockdown on young people’s mental health has been catastrophic. It manifests itself in increased criminal activity, increased substance misuse, risk-seeking behaviour and of course depression and anxiety. I see this first hand in the charity I work for, and we have recently been inundated with referrals. It’s sad to see.

It’s so important that young people have a proper childhood and enjoy their years of youth. They need social contact, new life experiences, education, boundaries, and role models to guide them into adulthood and help them to flourish. Once you take this away from young people, you remove their sense of purpose and a future to look forward to – without these things we have a ticking time bomb of a “lost generation” on our hands.

Boris Johnson, a man of extremely privileged upbringing and education, simply has no idea what life is like for a child living in poverty on a council estate, and how this affects their life chances. The entire cabinet are so out of touch with reality and ordinary people, these nonsensical decisions they continue to make only serve to highlight the huge void between us and them. The sad thing is, the opposition (Labour or Lib Dem government) I’m sure would not be any better! Someone once said democracy is an illusion, because you basically choose between a few very poor alternatives.

I guess the good news is that other European countries are now returning to the old normal, so eventually the penny will drop that current measures are unsustainable and they’ll to give up all this Covid-secure bullshit. We need to reach a tipping point, and crucially the MSM need to start changing their narrative and fast. They are extremely culpable in the current measures we are living through, and this should not be forgotten. I would be very glad to see the defunding of the BBC for a start!

28896 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RDawg, 10, #101 of 576 🔗

I agree that none of the current Cabinet, very few of the Official Opposition, and the majority of the talking heads in the MSM have any idea about the lives of the majority. I grew up in a ‘two up two down’ opposite a fairly notorious council estate. My dad, a very good sportsman in his early days, used to volunteer at a local youth club. Most of the kids had literally dragged themselves up and several did time, including girls. I ‘escaped’ through education, as did others – there were grammar schools. I was lucky. I was the first person in my extended family to do A levels, then go to university. I don’t think somebody like me would be able to do that today. The country had already gone backwards before this fiasco, and nobody seems to be capable, let alone bothered to try to do something about it. It is very depressing.

28948 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #102 of 576 🔗

maybe the reason others around you did so bad is because they are dumb fucks? And maybe it’s not the tax payers who should be paying to try and make everyone the same. You were smart enough to do something, bully for you, maybe the reason the kids next door are thick and there is nothing to be done for them. I’m sick of this lefty bullshit lets help everyone, lets not, lets leave everyone alone to do whatever it is they want and then maybe people will help themselves but this won’t happen as long as there are people wanting to “help”.

28947 ▶▶ Biker, replying to RDawg, 4, #103 of 576 🔗

that is some grade 1 horse shit you posted there.about the tories not giving a shit about young people. The best thing the tories can do is dismantle almost all of the things governments do for young people and i’d stat with getting rid of “youth workers” As someone who lives on a council estate i can tell you that it’s a waste of money trying to “help” the scum that live here, fuck them and their parents. This country makes it easy for anyone to do well and if you don’t i don’t give a shit and neither should the government. Only when children and adults learn that it is they and they alone that are responsible for what happens to them then maybe they’ll stop making pathetic excuse about how it’s the bad tories or racism or whatever it is being used as an excuse for them being a loser.

28956 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Biker, 8, #104 of 576 🔗

Biker, I’d like to think a master’s degree in Youth and Community Work, JNC status plus 11 years’ professional experience working with young people in a variety of settings would perhaps suggest that I’m not talking “grade 1 horse shit”. I’ve worked across a variety of settings including multiple local authority youth clubs, summer schemes and projects; a large disability charity; special needs schools; mental health settings; CAMHS; criminal justice and pupil referral units.

Young people need education and non formal educational interventions such as youth services, youth councils, volunteering and play schemes – all of which provide brilliant opportunities for social mobility and for young people to escape a dangerous cycle of poverty, substance misuse, criminal behaviour and lack of ambition. I have worked in youth clubs on council estates and they have transformed the lives of those who choose to attend.

I agree you cannot help everyone, but I can tell you that youth work intervention does change the lives of those who want to better themselves.

PS I’m not a “leftie” either.

28982 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RDawg, 7, #105 of 576 🔗

Sorry RDawg for being a bit of a dick. I feel a bit all over the place because my mate is dying and has not very long to go and i just visited him and it was awful. It’s no excuse. I do enjoy reading your posts.
I totally disagree that young people need any of the things you say. Young people have it all already and those that fuck it up deserve the right to do so.
I had fuck all when i was being brought up. My cousin and i would go out hunting for our tea. My father (a miner, ex military) would be drunk and beat me with a belt, my mother the same, the school the same. I was raised in a mining village full of lefties. I would shoot pigeons and rabbits. I could skin a rabbit at 9 years old. No one gave a fuck about me. The “youth club” was run by a bloke who went on to be convicted of being a kiddie fiddler and the police were violent. My cousin now runs one of the largest supermarkets in this country and i’m semi retired working in a supermarket after making plenty money from engineering and motorbikes. I could give up working but i kinda like it. All i’m saying is all these services for young people hold them back not help. Sure some may be helped but its not worth the money, the time or the effort and tax payers shouldn’t be paying for it. If you feel the need to help young people then i’m happy for you but it should be at your expense not mine.
My upbringing taught me how to survive but more importantly it taught me how to live. And to be fair to me the ‘help the kids social work stuff’ is a bit leftie. Most of these little bastards don’t know what it is to be suffering as a child and the ones that do if they really are suffering like i did they’ll learn how to pull themselves out of it or they don’t, i don’t give two shits either way. It’s their life to fuck up how they like. Perhaps if children were taught this from a very young age they’d do better. No one gave a shit if i lived or died when i was a kid and these days kids get counselling if they break a fucking pencil.

29027 ▶▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Biker, 1, #106 of 576 🔗

I’m gonna agree to disagree with you as we’re going off topic. However, the one thing kids do need is an education. To deny them the chance to go to school is completely wrong. It also prevents the parents from going to work. Until we see the schools fully reopen, I don’t see normal life fully resuming any time soon.

29747 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RDawg, #107 of 576 🔗

off course you disagree because i’m talking about taking away my tax money from useless schemes that you make a living from. Hence lefty bullshit

28979 ▶▶ paulito, replying to RDawg, 1, #108 of 576 🔗

Spot on.

28886 steve, replying to steve, 5, #109 of 576 🔗

That’s far too depressing. Looks like I’ll be saving a bunch of mo way as I’m not shopping anywhere like that on principal

28922 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to steve, 2, #110 of 576 🔗


28933 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Jonathan Castro, 4, #111 of 576 🔗

Grammar police 😂 🚨

28939 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to RDawg, 1, #112 of 576 🔗


28897 AidanR, -6, #113 of 576 🔗

Every daily update should begin with a video of someone likely to have been abused in the street for being Toby Young, but isn’t actually him.

28900 Peter Thompson, 34, #114 of 576 🔗

It is exactly three months since Boris had his panic , altered course away from the Swedish model , closed the NHS to all except Covid patients , ordered the closure of every business and school and sentenced the people of the UK to house arrest .Since then the rules and regulations have only marginally changed,however we are now allowed a ” bubble ” ( God how I hate that word; dreampt up by some poxy sociology lecturer in a ” new ” university .)

Today we have more indignities with face rags, and the latest news ” experts ” advising people to have really short hair to prevent Covid. This would be a possibilty if the hair salons and barbers were open ! I suspect their evidence to back this up comes from labour camps and prisons .

Only good news was a little thing. Someone on the foot path in my locality had changed the warning sign on social distancing to Covid1984 and Scamdemic. I am not alone !

28901 mark baker, replying to mark baker, 21, #115 of 576 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/15/disastrous-lockdown-can-never-repeated-even-virus-returns/ Reasonable enumeration of the various terrible costs to society of the lockdown. One word stands out for me though – “now” – he writes, “We now know therefore that a lockdown is not a temporary blip or a paid holiday, but a disaster for our society.” What the fuck!!!!!???? How are you only realising this now!!?? This should have been blindingly obvious from Day 1!!

28909 ▶▶ Julian, replying to mark baker, 6, #116 of 576 🔗

Sorry, can’t read the piece as it’s behind a paywall. I see he’s big on testing. Does he explain how that will help, and how enough of it could be achieved to actually be of use? I’ve not seen anyone really present that argument properly yet. Seems like something people fall back on when they know that we can’t carry on as we are but can’t bring themselves to say out loud that we should just forget about it all and move on.

28923 ▶▶▶ mark baker, replying to Julian, -2, #117 of 576 🔗

He’s advocating millions of test per week – that’s pretty much the plan. Says there are lots of new types of quicker tests in development. Sounds OK I guess.

28929 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to mark baker, #118 of 576 🔗

Thanks. It doesn’t seem overly feasible, though as an alternative to what we’re doing currently it may be preferable, and cheaper. I imagine it would take years to bring in – look how long it has taken to get the testing up to where it is now, and even then it is slow, not geographically well spread.

In some long future, instant, cheap, home kits for “dangerous” infectious conditions that large numbers of people did very regularly before leaving the house, and if positive stayed at home for a few days, may be a reality, but it seems like science fiction. Then there’s the argument that for most, exposure isn’t a bad thing and might be a good thing.

28987 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Julian, 1, #119 of 576 🔗

try this: http://archive.is/0jpIo .

fwiw Hague played a big part in the pedo cover-up

29031 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to anon, 2, #120 of 576 🔗

Thanks, much appreciated.

He starts off really well, then blames everyone except the government (and the people), and makes it seem like there was no choice. This is dangerous because it doesn’t establish the right way of approaching something like this next time it happens.

28913 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to mark baker, 19, #121 of 576 🔗

As far as I know, total national Lockdowns (TNLs) have never been attempted anywhere before Europe began adopting them this Spring. I think the blame lies largely with the Malevolent Midget Macron, but would have to go back over the record to check. It was certainly reported that Macron threatened to close the channel ports/tunnel unless the UK joined in the insane lockdown – and that seems to have been decisive.

China never had a total national lockdown. Japan, S Korea, Singapore did not have them.
While WHO did not criticise the Far East nations for not having TNLs, they appeared to encourage us to adopt them…hmmm.

As you say, it was obvious from Day One that TNLs would inflict massive economic and collateral damage e.g. to health outcomes for other even more fatal diseases like cancer. Worst of all lockdowns spread irrational fear rather than stoic caution in the population…that has had a hugely damaging impact. That’s why we have ended up with the absurdity of schools still being effectively closed, a generation being denied their modern birthright – a decent education. Absolutely shocking.

28903 Adrian Steele, replying to Adrian Steele, 8, #122 of 576 🔗

I am a big fan of your site. While I obviously don’t agree with all your posts I share the view that the economic damage, loss of liberty and associated non-covid illness do not justify the continuing lockdown. The fact that schools remained closed is a national tragedy particularly for disadvantaged children. For what it’s worth I am a semi retired ICU Consultant who returned to look after ventilated Covid patients at the peak in April.

I wanted to make the point that the association between smoking and good outcome is probably an artefact of selection (collider) bias. In very simple summary it is possible that healthcare workers who smoke less than average get covid more seriously because of a dose effect. These patients have a worse prognosis than the (more likely to smoke) general public and this leads to the spurious finding that smoking is protective. Observational studies in covid are prone to this kind of bias and have to be taken with a pinch of salt. (There’s some detailed literature easily found by googling ‘collider bias, covid, smoking),

Anyway thanks for a brilliant and courageous site. When people look back and realise the terrible cost of prolonged lockdown and the that the true death toll from covid was nowhere near the Imperial ‘reasonable worst case scenario’ I hope you will get the recognition you deserve

29062 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Adrian Steele, 1, #123 of 576 🔗

It wouldn’t surprise me if somebody came out with a study saying smokers reduce their risk by regularly going outside for a puff. I find a lot of studies are based on observation and nothing to do with cause and effect.

28906 Alice, 25, #124 of 576 🔗

There are a lot of coded messages here today!

I met an anti-lockdown protester this morning near King’s Cross station – she was giving out leaflets from StandUp X. We had a nice chat – she sends her greetings to all Sceptics.

I also met one of my neighbours who was so disgusted with the BBC that she was going to cancel her TV licence. I hope she isn’t the only one (I cancelled mine many years ago).

I suppose this counts as an eventful day…

28914 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, #126 of 576 🔗

Already being used at Heathrow…

28917 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Carrie, #127 of 576 🔗

Clients arriving back have said no checks still but advert was pushing for businesses to install and deny entry for those with temperature.

28919 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Carrie, -1, #128 of 576 🔗

Seems like a reasonable precaution to me. Quarantine is an old and established defence against mass infection entering your country…if we had closed our borders (not saying we should have) in mid January there is no doubt we would not have suffered the toll of deaths we have. A fever cam at least can zero in on someone who might be a high risk.

28921 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 3, #129 of 576 🔗

there is no doubt we would not have suffered the toll of deaths we have”

Well, how long should we have closed our borders for? And when would we have opened them again, and on what basis?

28957 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, 1, #130 of 576 🔗

I’m not arguing for full border closure but closure to flights from China, or at least effective quarantine, would probably have been a sensible move at the time.

28977 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, #131 of 576 🔗

Possibly, in order to buy time to prepare the healthcare provision and refine plans, though we had plenty of warning and arguably didn’t use the time as well as we could have done.

I read somewhere a lot of the spread here came from Europe rather than China.

28930 ▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to OKUK, 1, #132 of 576 🔗

I think there is quite a lot of doubt about that. At the beginning of the pandemic a lot was written about the limited effectiveness of screening at point of entry, e.g. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/why-airport-screening-wont-stop-spread-coronavirus . Has anything changed to undermine those arguments?

28958 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sally, #133 of 576 🔗

Well we’ve got closure, quarantine and screening. Important to distinguish between them.

Screening would be the least effective but it seems reasonable to identify anyone who does have a high fever and test them.

29241 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to OKUK, #134 of 576 🔗

What toll of deaths ? the 1334 people that died from covid-19 (with no pre-existing conditions) between Jan 1st and May 29th? there was no toll of deaths.

29281 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to watashi, 1, #135 of 576 🔗

I’d caution against being too ideological about these things. All I know is that quarantine is something tried and tested and used through history whereas total national lockdown is an innovation and not, in my view, a good one.

28918 swedenborg, 4, #136 of 576 🔗

The best thing is the graph which clearly shows the epidemic curves in Spain. The lockdown came late after the true epidemic peaked. The detected epidemic peak was a result of increased testing.
The accompanying text in the tweets are a bit difficult to follow probably due to language problem but the curves are quite clear for everyone to see.

28926 Morris_Day, replying to Morris_Day, 27, #137 of 576 🔗

A facebook friend, a teacher, posted a picture of himself today lounging out in his garden at 2pm today watching TV on his patio cave whilst my kids get set ‘home working’ that consists of ‘read three chapters of x book’.

It is utterly repugnant what is being condoned by many.

28949 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Morris_Day, 7, #138 of 576 🔗

i’m shocked you think teachers actually care about education. All they care about is good pay, plenty opportunities to take full pay sick leave, fat pensions and long holidays with half days and home by four everyday. I know some liar will come on and say but my wife works 36 hours a day, is always marking doing lesson plans and all the rest of the utter bullshit these liars say. They teach he same lesson year after year, they hand out sheets of bullshit given to them by the government on them inservice days. I’ve met a to of teachers what with having children and almost to a man they were all useless. Last parents evening i was in the english class and there wasn’t a book in the room, not one. The “work” they were doing was watching a video about some braindead blacks in shithole school in America in 1993 blaming whites form their problems.

28998 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Biker, 2, #139 of 576 🔗

it is not the government giving them bullshit. unfortunately the government dont get involved other than setting a high level curriculum. Trainee teachers go to college and are indoctrinated by lefty tutors. They then go into teaching and teach the same lefty creed to the children who then go to college etc etc . you are correct that many of them dont have an original thought in their head and will pass on the documentation that they are supplied by vested interests – such as the alternate view on world history that you mention, greenpeace propaganda, etc etc …

28963 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Morris_Day, 12, #140 of 576 🔗

Ah, teachers…the frontline of leftist thinking, the guardians of Rightthink, the purveyors of what-to-think-not-how-to-think.

My daughter wanted to write an essay for her Modern Studies class on “Why Donald Trump is a Good President”. She’d already done her research (she doesn’t take what she’s told at face value and likes to think outside the box, the apple hasn’t fallen far from the tree), and had evidence gathered away from the “orange man bad” rhetoric. She wanted to argue a point.

However, her Modern Studies teacher told her she couldn’t write it. This is the same modern studies teacher who, when my daughter was 13, regularly told the class that “Trump is a racist”.

28935 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #141 of 576 🔗

Pandemic leads to a bicycle boom, and shortage, around world


In the United States, bicycle aisles at mass merchandisers like Walmart and Target have been swept clean, and independent shops are doing a brisk business and are selling out of affordable “family” bikes.
Bicycle sales over the past two months saw their biggest spike in the U.S. since the oil crisis of the 1970s, said Jay Townley, who analyzes cycling industry trends at Human Powered Solutions.

“People quite frankly have panicked, and they’re buying bikes like toilet paper,” Townley said, referring to the rush to buy essentials like toilet paper and hand sanitizer that stores saw at the beginning of the pandemic.

28990 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #142 of 576 🔗

I think most of the bicycles bought in the NW of England are all being used on the country lanes where I live. I doubt any of the cyclists have taken a National Cycling Proficiency test as most of them are in more danger of dying on a bicycle than they are from Covid. Wobbling all over the place, in the middle of the lane round a blind bend, or in packs all over the lane. And when did mirrors and a bell vanish from bikes? It’s terribly dangerous. I’m not anti-cycling, truly, but I just wish they would brush up on the Highway Code a bit and use some common sense.
Yes, I’m old and grumpy . . . 😄

29047 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #143 of 576 🔗

Hi, it’s illegal to sell a bicycle without a bell but the purchaser can take it straight ff and that’s legal (!!) Mirrors are unusual on bicycles but I can see the argument for fitting and using one, especially if you find it hard to look back over your shoulder (essential for safety).

There is no National Cycling Proficiency test any more. It was replaced by Bikeability in 2007, which was an attempt to update it. If you do all 3 levels, you should, in theory, be able to cycle safely, competently and confidently on the road. In the ‘old normal’, remember that?, lots of schools participated in the scheme. As many of the instructors are on zero-hours contracts, the only hope for them will be to go private, I guess.

We think that the cycling craze is partly to do with gyms being closed and people still having money to spare. I agree with your frustration as I’ve seen some pretty dodgy cycling going too. ‘Lots of competent ones, though.

I’ve also seen some dangerous driving which, to be honest, is more worrying – not many drivers get killed by cyclists, after all. I got embroiled in a discussion on here a few days ago in which a couple of us tried to explain why an experienced cyclist will ‘take the lane’ to stop drivers overtaking when it’s not safe. I guess that’s not what you’ve been seeing but rather people not in control of their cycles.

BTW, I’m also in the NW, also old and grumpy and about to go shopping via the country roads in the rain on my bike but without a muzzle! :-):-) Please look out for us old gimmers, we promise to cycle properly!

29103 ▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #144 of 576 🔗

best advice to cyclist from a cyclist;- 1. keep looking over your shoulder, 2. make sure your brakes work. 3. at night have at least a back light)

29350 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Shep, #145 of 576 🔗

Quite right! 1 and 2 worked well for us on our 10 mile hilly ride round the Peak District on busy roads just now 🙂 The law says use a front light as well and that makes sense to me.

29054 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #146 of 576 🔗

It’s almost guaranteed that somebody will express “extreme concern” when the number of cycling accidents inevitably increases. As part of the precedent setting zero deaths approach to this virus we may well see cycling banned at some point in the future.

28940 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #147 of 576 🔗

Urgent legislation has been passed. All protests of more than 6 people are now illegal. Not a single MP opposed it.
(everybody thinks this is Dominic Cummings)

28946 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 2, #148 of 576 🔗

I think it was already law, has just been approved retrospectively by parliament

Because of the pressing public health emergency, laws can be brought into force by government without first consulting parliament

28968 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Julian, 3, #149 of 576 🔗

I followed the link and looked at some of the comments in the thread, which I found depressing. Most were very much in favour of the legislation, the reasons being because:

1) They didn’t like the BLM protests
2) They seemed to be worried about anti-Brexit protests
3) They didn’t like Sadiq Khan
4) We’re in the middle of a pandemic and now isn’t the time to be allowing protest
5) The right to protest will be reinstated as soon as possible once this is over

Now I wasn’t overkeen on the tone and some of the actions taken in BLM and other protests, supported Brexit, don’t like Sadiq Khan’s policies much and actually voted for the present govt because I somehow thought they might do an OKish job, and I am fairly keen on law & order. But that hasn’t stopped me from thinking the government has made a mess of this and that the restrictions on freedom are unjustified.

It just gave me an idea of one of the things we’re up against – presumably diehard Tory voters, who see any attack on anything the government does as wrong.

28986 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 1, #150 of 576 🔗

I agree. I am especially concerned that people might think that point 5 is a good enough reason to support anything being put on the statute book. Is ‘as soon as possible’ after we have all been vaccinated with whatever the NWO-supporting interests have in store (and I think we should be highly suspicious if we see Lord Haig promoting anything at all that Tony Blair is aligned to, as per the article in today’s Telegraph)? The current government has succeeded in alienating my generation of Tories (me and my husband), my children (20 and 18) and my mother, who has voted Tory her entire life notwithstanding her background. The schism was, in my view, highlighted in the response of Tory, Brexit supporters to Dominic Cummings and his ‘Barnard Castle Defence’. We all thought he should have been sacked.

29024 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #151 of 576 🔗

Totally agree. Highly dangerous to trust that restrictions will be lifted when no longer needed, especially as the government hasn’t explained what “no longer needed” looks like, and can just bring up the danger of a second, third etc wave.

29098 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, #152 of 576 🔗

6) The footie is restarting. One of the biggest most widespread regular cause of mass gatherings.

29114 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to JohnB, #153 of 576 🔗

And mass delusion 🙂

29651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, #154 of 576 🔗

I forgive you, Nobody2020. You obviously have experienced a deprived life. 🙂

29006 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 3, #155 of 576 🔗

Yes, as far as I can see the restriction on gatherings outside of more than six was introduced on 1st June. But it might be that the amendments made then hadn’t actually come into force – not sure about the procedural details here.

Not the least of the problems with our governance that this panic has brought into sharp focus is the difficulty in knowing what the law of the land actually is, when the government intentionally obfuscates the issue by deliberately confusing advice and law.

29011 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #156 of 576 🔗

But in any case the Regs prior to the introduction of the 6 person limit were even more restrictive – they specified: “ no person may participate in a gathering in a public place of more than two people”, subject to a few exceptions which did not include political demonstration. And of course, as we know, demonstrations against the lockdown were not tolerated.

29026 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 1, #157 of 576 🔗

I think it has been illegal since the first iteration back in March, and has actually been relaxed to allow up to 6.

My understanding is that they are able to make law in advance of it being put before parliament, on the pretext that it’s an emergency.

I’ve posted a link further up that shows the timeline of the various amendments.

Agree it’s not easy to keep track of, and there’s a lot of confusion over what is law and what is guidance, all quite deliberate I’m sure.

29028 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #158 of 576 🔗

Yes, I’m just not sure of the exact procedural rules and applicability thereof surrounding when a particular SI actually comes into force.

28943 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 17, #159 of 576 🔗

Very sad to hear about everyone at a hospital being ordered to wear a mask.

But hey, come on folks, one has to say “No” at some point. If intelligent experienced medical staff can’t do it, it doesn’t bode well for everyone else.

29035 ▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 13, #160 of 576 🔗

Absolutely. Similarly, if even a substantial minority of people refused to be muzzled on public transport, what could the fascist bullies do about it? Nothing. But if you behave like sheep, you get driven to the slaughter.

28944 Biker, 19, #161 of 576 🔗

The state wants you isolated, afraid and compliant. They want to harm your children, to turn them onto unquestioning robots,. they want to stop people meeting, talking,drinking,fucking. They want to see the death of the high street with the only shop left being Amazon. No more concerts, Boy Scouts, Guides, Church, Motogp, cafe’s, gym, swimming. I could go on for ages with all the things they want us not to do but here’s what i’m gonna do, i’m gonna do what the fuck i want, fuck the police, the government, Karen, the thick fucks who work as “security guards” in shops and anyone whom thinks i should behave how they think i should. These people have decided to shut down society and impose Martial Law on us therefore leaving the only course of action left to a free man, to fight back.

In the immortal words of Twisted Sister

Oh, we’re not gonna take it
No, we ain’t gonna take it
Oh, we’re not gonna take it anymore
We’ve got the right to choose it
There ain’t no way we’ll lose it
This is our life, this is our song
We’ll fight the powers that be, just
Don’t pick our destiny ’cause
You don’t know us, you don’t belong
Oh, we’re not gonna take it
No, we ain’t gonna take it
Oh, we’re not gonna take it anymore
Oh, you’re so condescending
Your gall is never ending
We don’t want nothin’, not a thing from you
Your life is trite and jaded
Boring and confiscated
If that’s your best, your best won’t do

28950 NothingIsBetterThanCash, replying to NothingIsBetterThanCash, 8, #162 of 576 🔗

We need to have a strong pro-cash anti-contactless movement forming to protect our rights in the shops now they’re reopening. Regrettably I can’t find any evidence of a Uk organisation dedicated to fighting on the side of cash in the war than authoritarian creeps have deckared against the only truly non-disciminatory payment method.

29230 ▶▶ watashi, replying to NothingIsBetterThanCash, 3, #163 of 576 🔗

Agreed. I have been using cash only for everything since this whole scamdemic started.

28952 rodmclaughlin, replying to rodmclaughlin, -11, #164 of 576 🔗

A comment on yesterday’s link to Peter Hitchens in the Telegraph. He’s hostile to people tearing down statues of slaveowners or writing ‘racist’ on a statue of Winston Churchill, though it’s doubtful if Winnie would even have denied it – Tory prime ministers weren’t as pc in those days. But he praises East Europeans who pull down hundreds of statues of Lenin. In other words, it’s OK when people who agree with his opinions do it. I’m surprised Toby didn’t notice this when posting the link. Permalink at https://archive.is/SjkZP

28965 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to rodmclaughlin, 9, #165 of 576 🔗

I think there’s a bit of a difference between protesting while living in a free country and rejoicing at being liberated from a totalitarian state.

28966 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mike Smith, #166 of 576 🔗

Whose statue should we cast down when we are liberated from a
totalitarian state?

28967 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to annie, 2, #167 of 576 🔗

People who have lost their freedom are entitled to remove the statues of the people who took their freedom from them. Are you saying you disagree?

29032 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mike Smith, #168 of 576 🔗

Sorry, don’t understand the question.

29119 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to annie, #169 of 576 🔗

Hi, Annie. I didn’t know if you were disagreeing with me or not. Doesn’t matter.

29240 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to annie, #170 of 576 🔗

For the Iraqis it was Saddam

29310 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to annie, #171 of 576 🔗

Boris Johnston, Cresenda Dick, Sadique Kahn, Prof Furgeson, etc the list is actually quite long thankfully we have not been there long enough yet for the statues to go up.

29786 ▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to annie, #172 of 576 🔗

I don’t think that there are any statues to the people who are currently reducing our rights and freedoms. It’s not a very British thing to erect statues to the living, is it?

28969 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #173 of 576 🔗

Yes, I think that’s the thrust of Hitchen’s point.

28970 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to rodmclaughlin, 2, #174 of 576 🔗

You have Eleanor Roosevelt’s ‘average mind’ in that you are interested in ‘events’ (tearing down statues) but you don’t consider the ideas around the events.

28983 ▶▶ Biker, replying to rodmclaughlin, 11, #175 of 576 🔗

I don’t care if Churchill was Racist or not. He help save this country from real racists and all these people moaning about him should be fucking lined up against the wall and given a severe talking too. Oh and if the people who complain that we’re a racist country don’t like it here i suggest they fuck off somewhere more to their liking. They’re not prisoners, the world must be full of utopia’s where they can go and live like kings once again.

29012 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Biker, 1, #176 of 576 🔗

I’ve heard China isn’t very racist.

29242 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Mark H, #177 of 576 🔗

China is very racist against blacks

29283 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Castro, #178 of 576 🔗

Plus any non-Han Chinese and overseas Chinese for that matter. They don’t like everyone else either. In historical documents outsiders were called “barbarians” and Chinese today would call anyone who isn’t Chinese “waiguoren” (foreigners) even though they’re the foreigner where they’re living.

29295 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #179 of 576 🔗

and of course the muslim Kazakhs and Uigers , the Tibetans and the rest of the 55 ethnic groups in china . and basically anyone that does not toe the party line

28953 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #180 of 576 🔗

Canadian scientist sent deadly viruses to Wuhan lab months before RCMP asked to investigate

Newly-released access-to-information documents reveal details about a shipment of deadly pathogens last year from Canada’s National Microbiology Lab to China — confirming for the first time who sent them, what exactly was shipped, and where it went.
CBC News had already reported about the shipment of Ebola and Henipah viruses but there’s now confirmation one of the scientists escorted from the lab in Winnipeg amid an RCMP investigation last July was responsible for exporting the pathogens to the Wuhan Institute of Virology four months earlier.
Dr. Xiangguo Qiu, her husband Keding Cheng and her students from China were removed from Canada’s only level-4 lab over what’s described as a possible “policy breach.” The Public Health Agency of Canada had asked the RCMP to get involved several months earlier.
The virus shipments are not related to the outbreak of COVID-19 or research into the pandemic, Canadian officials said.
PHAC said the shipment and Qiu’s eviction from the lab are not connected.
“The administrative investigation is not related to the shipment of virus samples to China,” Eric Morrissette, chief of media relations for Health Canada and the Public Health Agency of Canada wrote in an email.
“In response to a request from the Wuhan Institute of Virology for viral samples of Ebola and Henipah viruses, the Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) sent samples for the purpose of scientific research in 2019.”
‘It is alarming’However, experts are concerned.
“It is suspicious. It is alarming. It is potentially life-threatening,” said Amir Attaran, a law professor and epidemiologist at the University of Ottawa.
“We have a researcher who was removed by the RCMP from the highest security laboratory that Canada has for reasons that government is unwilling to disclose. The intelligence remains secret. But what we know is that before she was removed, she sent one of the deadliest viruses on Earth, and multiple varieties of it to maximize the genetic diversity and maximize what experimenters in China could do with it, to a laboratory in China that does dangerous gain of function experiments. And that has links to the Chinese military.”
Gain of function experiments are when a natural pathogen is taken into the lab, made to mutate, and then assessed to see if it has become more deadly or infectious.
In Canada, gain of function experiments to create more dangerous pathogens in humans are not prohibited, but are not done because they’re considered too dangerous, Attaran said.
“The Wuhan lab does them and we have now supplied them with Ebola and Nipah viruses. It does not take a genius to understand that this is an unwise decision,” he said.
“I am extremely unhappy to see that the Canadian government shared that genetic material.”………………..
Confusion, concern over shipment The ATIP documents provide details about the months leading up to the shipment — including confusion over how to package the deadly viruses — the lack of decontamination of the package before it was sent, and concerns expressed by the NML’s director-general Matthew Gilmour in Winnipeg, and his superiors in Ottawa.
They wanted to know where the package was going, what was in it, and whether it had the proper paperwork.
In one email, Gilmour said Material Transfer Agreements would be required, “not generic ‘guarantees’ on the storage and usage.”
He also asked David Safronetz, chief of special pathogens: “Good to know that you trust this group. How did we get connected with them?”
Safronetz replied: “They are requesting material from us due to collaboration with Dr. Qiu.”

28955 Matt Mounsey, replying to Matt Mounsey, 1, #182 of 576 🔗

On Simon Dolan’s advice, it’s actually Part 2 Section 4a)ii) of The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020.
The requirement is “severe distress”.

29057 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Matt Mounsey, #183 of 576 🔗

Also from Simon – If you wish to make a FOI Request to the Department for Transport asking for the name and findings of the peer reviewed study which led to the imposition of mandatory face masks on public transport you can do so here:


28964 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #184 of 576 🔗

A scary article in The Critic:

One paragraph in particular caught my eye:

“Haidt has famously argued that the Right and the Left in America have different moral priorities: while the Left are primarily interested in the values of compassion and fairness, the Right consider national loyalty and respect for authority to be equally important, if not more so.”

Where does lockdown scepticism fit into that left-right classification?

Personally, I think I have ‘national loyalty’ for a country and society that used to exist, and I hope still exists, but I’m not sure when I view the media.

I think I have compassion and fairness but at a higher level than wishing to base government policy on individual anecdotes – I can see that although free market capitalism can be harsh and seemingly unfair, it is remarkable in its power to generate wealth for everyone. What passes for ‘unfair’ in Britain would look like utopia for, say, an untouchable in India or a worker drone in China. If we’re going to change the way our economy works, we should do it slowly, carefully, and honestly.

In terms of respect for authority, we lockdown sceptics are surely at the extreme end of disrespect – except that we don’t go around physically smashing things up. We would rather not go to a shop or travel by bus if it means we have to genuflect to the cretins who are running the country. We’re extremely disrespectful, but not in a way that makes things unpleasant for the less enlightened.

28971 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #185 of 576 🔗

The left-right distinction I have found most interesting in recent years is something Thomas Sowell said – the left see things in terms of solutions, the right see things in terms of tradeoffs. I think that is arguably highly applicable to our current predicament with the virus reaction.

Like all generalisations I think there are exceptions – I am sure most/all of the left leaning people on this forum are well aware that idealism left to go out of control can be damaging, which is I think a lot of what has happened here.

The case for lockdown scepticism seems to me more a case for common sense and logic, and reason rather than emotion. I’m sure there are plenty on the left capable of common sense and reason. Hope this doesn’t sound patronising to anyone, it’s not intended to be…

28994 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #186 of 576 🔗

Respect for authority clearly has limits. I think the evident irrationality of lockdown in response to a cold/flu type disease renders it impossible to respect such an intrusive and costly measure merely because it is espoused by the government and social establishments. Likewise, that same basic irrationality means that more intelligent leftists can overcome the emotive arguments and oppose it as well, as we see here on this forum.

29238 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #187 of 576 🔗

…yes, except of course we’re not. We just have a very low tolerance for BS!

28981 A Stickler Lawyer, 15, #188 of 576 🔗

Face masks – the limits of the Regulations

If Simon Dolan’s great advice re ‘severe anxiety’ doesn’t work, please remember that the Regulations are limited to two instances only:

3. (2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), a person is using a public transport service at any time when—

  • (a) they are boarding any vehicle by means of which a public transport service is provided; or
  • (b) they are (whether or not for the purposes of travel) on board any vehicle by means of which a public transport service is provided.

In other words, you’re only required to wear one if you’re on a train, bus etc or “ boarding ” said train, bus etc. The dictionary defines “ boarding ” as the “ action of getting on or into a ship, aircraft, or other vehicle.

I would therefore submit that the act of “waiting” for public transport (i.e. at a bus stop, train station/platform, airport etc) is not captured by the Regulations. As such, the stories from yesterday (15 June) that Plod are insisting that travellers wear masks before going through ticket barriers etc; those actions are are, in my opinion, ultra vires. If challenged, politely remind Plod or staff that the law only requires you to wear a mask at the point you’re “ boarding ” public transport; not a moment before.

Moreover, the Regulations say nothing about disembarking public transport; therefore, I would submit that you’re free to whip that awful mask off again as soon as you exit the bus, train etc (even between Tube lines if you’re connecting etc).

Yours sceptically,

A Stickler Lawyer

28985 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #189 of 576 🔗

Someone I know went to a Waterstones store yesterday and told me that she was waved through because it was so dead that she was the only customer. She did confirm that there was the trolley for the books to be “quarantined” and she had to hold up the book she bought to be scanned by the checkout assistant and that was about it.

28991 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #190 of 576 🔗

That’s good news.

Bloody hell Bart, the DT published my letter: edited, but it got the point across!

28992 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to kh1485, #191 of 576 🔗

I haven’t got a subscription to the DT. Could you paste it here?

29010 ▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #192 of 576 🔗

Would this be it?

SIR – Retail businesses that treat their customers like disease-ridden pariahs will quickly lose trade.
If they feel the need to conform to the “new normal”, they should do so with courtesy, or the decimated high street will cease to exist entirely.

29017 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to DocRC, 2, #193 of 576 🔗

Excellent! Many thanks.

29022 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DocRC, 4, #194 of 576 🔗

Pithy, succinct, brill.

29023 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to DocRC, 4, #195 of 576 🔗

Thanks for posting this, that’s the one (they cut it down a bit, but you get the gist). Was just about to post a pic’ of it – I only get the analogue version!

29060 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to DocRC, 1, #196 of 576 🔗

Well done!

28997 ▶▶▶ sunchap, replying to kh1485, 10, #197 of 576 🔗

I cannot believe that the House of Commons has banned demonstrations with more than five people. It is chilling, dumb and laughable all at the same time. This low level bug, C-19 has already come and gone!!!???

The same chamber which voted to fight Adolph has surrendered freedom of speech to a bug that is about as dangerous as a dead bee…Surely there are unwritten constitutional principles at common law which make this legislation unconstitutional???

29009 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to sunchap, 2, #198 of 576 🔗

I seriously doubt that will be enforceable given all the BLM protests over the last week or so. Talk about closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

29018 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #199 of 576 🔗

It was enforced against Piers Corbyn and others protesting against lockdown, on more than one occasion, despite their protests being peaceful.

It’s enforceable if there’s the political will, which there is for some protests but not others.

29056 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 1, #200 of 576 🔗

Which is hypocritical and its not surprising that people aren’t taking the police seriously because they’re very selective at what they police.

I can now see why many are suggesting that you carry something BLM related because that seems to be the only way that the police will leave you alone.

29071 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #201 of 576 🔗

Well I suppose governments always need to have an eye on public opinion, but the current lot seem unwilling to try and actually provide leadership, stand up for values, and the public opinion they follow seems a bit selective.

Many would argue that they are not really conservative, and don’t in many cases share the values of their core support.

Peaceful protest for whatever cause should never have been made illegal.

29089 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #202 of 576 🔗

I’d always resisted the suggestion that Johnson was a true populist, but it’s clear now that I was just being stupid and that’s exactly what he is.

29101 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 2, #203 of 576 🔗

There are several definitions of populist in use, but generally these days it is used by bbc/guardianistas to mean anyone with any support whose politics they disapprove of.

Johnson I think is only really populist in the negative sense that he fundamentally believes in nothing but getting elected and keeping power and position for himself. He’s a kind of Blair without the balls, it turns out (I will admit to having hoped for more from him prior to the coronapanic disaster, wherein he has showed his true colours).

29107 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, #204 of 576 🔗

That’s the sense I meant. Not the BBC “we secretly mean we think he’s a fascist” sense.

29015 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to sunchap, 1, #205 of 576 🔗

In truth all gatherings outside of your household have been illegal since March 23rd, under The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020, which is a Statutory Instrument made possible by this: The Secretary of State makes the following Regulations in exercise of the powers conferred by sections 45C(1), (3)(c), (4)(d), 45F(2) and 45P of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984

The law has since changed to allow gatherings of up to 2 from multiple households, then up to 6.

The latest news on this refers to the latest amendment being laid before parliament, but it was already legall in force.

Simon Dolan is sponsoring a legal case which challenges the basis on which the restrictions have been brought in


29000 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #206 of 576 🔗

That’s fantastic news!!! Great stuff – if we make our point across a lot of times hopefully TPTB in retail will get the hint.

29045 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #207 of 576 🔗

Hopefully. Tbh, I didn’t think they would print it so that was a nice surprise!

29052 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 4, #208 of 576 🔗

Agree. I’ve decided not to reply to the Waterstones email – I read it again and reading between the lines it was pretty much telling me to get lost and that I was a loser for not caring about health and safety plus Sunak visited so its A-OK as far as they’re concerned.

I’ve always supported them and have done so since I came to this country but no more. I personally don’t care now if they go under and this time it’s not Amazon’s fault.

29058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #209 of 576 🔗

Is there somebody at the entrances to Waterstones? I’m thinking of making a point by walking up there, and after I’ve been told all the “safety measures” I will just smile brilliantly and say “oh no, that’s awful, I’ll leave it thank you. What a shame, I had come to buy 6 books but I’ll order from Amazon now” and walk off.

29072 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #210 of 576 🔗

From what my colleague told me there was one yes but they just waved her through because there was no-one apart from the staff inside. It will be interesting what the reaction will be when you say that.

29109 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #211 of 576 🔗

Oh, please do … 🙂

29002 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Awkward Git, #213 of 576 🔗

Very interesting, just did a DuckDuckGo search for “322 new cases COVID-19”. A full page of results from different states and countries.

29178 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark H, #214 of 576 🔗

That’s who I use plus yandex.com the Russian search engine.

All very strange.

28996 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 11, #215 of 576 🔗

William Hague says that the lockdown has been a disaster, so that sounds good.
But then he has says that it wasn’t the government’s fault.
And his solution is to listen to Tony Blair’s Institute for Global Change and institute a massive track and trace program. The clue is in the name, William – Institute for Global Change.
That’s what you get for looking at the Daily Telegraph.

29007 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #216 of 576 🔗

To be fair the Telegraph has featured more true dissent and questioning of the orthodoxy than most other papers, as far as I have seen.

I’m not sure I agree with his solution, but he’s a big name and anything that sows doubt is welcome right now I think.

29016 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 4, #217 of 576 🔗

Agree to a point, but if Tony Blair’s name is attached to anything you know what is behind it, and that is too much of a slippery slope for me!

29019 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #218 of 576 🔗

Oh yes for sure, not a bedfellow I would choose.

29013 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mike Smith, 6, #219 of 576 🔗

Are there still people around who think William Hague is “conservative”?.

29087 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 3, #220 of 576 🔗

It’s a bit of a toss-up between Hague, Johnson and Blair as to which is the most Conservative!

29088 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to IanE, 2, #221 of 576 🔗

Sadly, it’s looking like Blair

29001 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 16, #222 of 576 🔗

Scotland rarely beats England at anything. Football. Rugby. Winning the World Cup. However, great news for all our Scots today! Our Dear Leader has successful led us to winning the unemployment battle!

That’s right Scotland is finally winning! We now have more unemployed per capita than England.

Personally, I’m just grateful that Dear Leader is using a “slow and steady” approach to easing the lockdown and opening up the Scottish economy. We don’t need a tourism industry when we can beat the English at putting people out of work.

29005 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Mark H, 6, #223 of 576 🔗

We’re not even into the bad phase yet either, just imagine what these figures are going to be come August when NI and Pensions contributions are paid by furlough. I expect to see a huge rise then, and then a second for November after the end of the furlough scheme.

29014 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to daveyp, 4, #224 of 576 🔗

It’s fine though, the Economy Secretary, who’s been doing an amazing job so far, is recommending reducing VAT and extending the furlough. Sturgeon wants furlough for another 2 years, so that’ll help.

And tourism isn’t all it’s cracked up to be anyway. The Economy Secretary says too many jobs are tied up in tourism in Scotland, so it’s kinda tourism’s fault that the jobless are so many. Bloody relying on the beautiful scenery and pleasant people to attract bloody foreigners, some of whom might vote Tory, into Scotland to spend their money. Don’t want it, don’t need them.

29020 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #225 of 576 🔗

Someone posted this on Simon Dolan’s twitter page:

29030 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #226 of 576 🔗

That’s brilliant. many thanks.

29044 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #227 of 576 🔗

You’re welcome 🙂

29065 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #228 of 576 🔗

Excellent cannon fodder! Thank you.

29029 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #229 of 576 🔗

Question: in the Covid hotspots of Lombardy and Wuhan, do we know whether the victims were habitual mask wearers? I am now getting a strong feeling that ordinary slobs and habitual mask wearing is a toxic combination. Not everyone will get a fresh set of eight masks to be changed hourly from their kitchen dispenser every morning.

29038 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #230 of 576 🔗

There seems to be a strong correlation between habitual mask wearers and those who have come down with Covid 19 at least from my observation and having traveled to East Asia a fair number of times. Hand washing facilities were almost non existent in parts of China that I’ve been to and even in Japan there was no soap on hand in the public toilets unless you are in a shopping centre or area that has a high concentration of western tourists.

Doesn’t help that you have the usual suspects with regards to touching their faces and constant adjusting of masks due to difficulty with breathing.

29051 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #231 of 576 🔗

We’re wondering if that’s the idea. A rise in muzzle-related respiratory infections and bingo! there’s your second wave. I’ve lost count of the number of people I’ve seen fiddling with them dragging them off and on, shoving them in a pocket or handbag etc.

Do the right thing or you’ll get another lockdown. Another? It really is 1984.

29053 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #232 of 576 🔗

Another – as in did the one we’re in now end without us noticing?

29069 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #233 of 576 🔗

And given that there’s scientific evidence that mask wearing weakens a person’s immune system then yes its in their interest to get as many people as sick as possible to lend credence to their apocalyptic second wave.

Have these people no shame? They need to be called into their account for their actions.

29162 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #234 of 576 🔗

“It really is 1984”

Yep, last time I looked.

29036 sam, replying to sam, 9, #235 of 576 🔗

The Guardian Newspaper was founded by John Edward Taylor from the profits of Cotton Plantation Slavery and therefore should be shut down.

29049 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to sam, 2, #236 of 576 🔗


29059 ▶▶ Julian, replying to sam, 2, #237 of 576 🔗

The Guardian makes me furious and seems to me a source of bad ideas at the moment, but I don’t think it should be shut down. But hopefully this campaign will highlight what seems obvious which is that going back into history in this kind of way is not a road likely to lead to good outcomes.

29073 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Julian, #238 of 576 🔗

If anything justifies shutting down the Guardian its survival through the ‘tax efficient’ sale of Auto Trader via the Cayman Islands should.

29080 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 1, #239 of 576 🔗

I would normally agree about having opportunities for all views in newspapers, but the GroanAid has now become the anti-social revolutionary paper. Delenda est.

29092 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 2, #240 of 576 🔗

I think getting rid of the Guardian along with the BBC would be a clear benefit to the nation. These are outlets that openly and dishonestly propagandise for particular points of view while pretending to be honest.

The BBC should be sold off and preferably broken up so it can no longer be as damaging as it has been by virtue of its government-backed status.

The Guardian has just long outlived any original purpose it might have served and lingers only to do harm.

“You have been sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!”

29100 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #241 of 576 🔗

I think while both are overall forces for bad rather than good, I see the cases as different.

The BBC has a government guaranteed income, and while it’s not actually a monopoly it has massive advantage which it is abusing because it has utterly abandoned any pretence at impartiality. It should be spun off/broken up as you suggest.

The Guardian is welcome to survive, or not, based on its appeal to readers. Realistically, it won’t get shut down and calls to shut it down risks alienating moderates and further entrenching hardliners. But “calling out” as the phrase has it, their hypocrisy, is necessary.

That said, my position on The Guardian is based on the premise that we remain a relatively free society, where those with differing views compete for people’s agreement. You may feel we’re in very real danger of going beyond that and are engaged in an existential struggle for the survival of our civilisation, and that the gloves are off, and the moral high ground is no longer important.

29110 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 4, #242 of 576 🔗

We have not been a politically free society, in the sense of people being free to express minority political opinions and able to do so effectively, and free to organise effectively to advocate for them, for many years. And we have lived under heavy one-sided political propaganda for decades.

Freedom of speech went with “hate speech” laws, and freedom of association went with anti-discrimination laws. These are fundamental issues, whether or not you agree with the positions that are suppressed. The argument used is usually “not tolerating intolerance”, but that is transparent nonsense.

We are now seeing the inevitable logical conclusions of the path we have been on for a couple of generations.

29326 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian, #243 of 576 🔗

I think the Guardian serves its purpose well enough that it will always find funding. The whole appeal to readers to donate for our survival is just a part of the act.

29322 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian, #244 of 576 🔗

I think systematic terrorising of the public in order to further certain interests both financially and politically should not just see it shut down but the key staff on trial. There is free speech and then there is creating panic with misrepresentation and outright lies which results in thousands of people being harmed and dying. The Guardian and BBC are the worst offenders here.

29037 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #245 of 576 🔗

Just saw this on my Twitter feed:

“DO THE RIGHT THING. Don’t risk another lockdown.”

I feel like I’m in an abusive relationship.

29043 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #246 of 576 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

I can’t breathe for laughing…..

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

29078 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #247 of 576 🔗

Aha, now I understand the Floyd thingy!

29064 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #248 of 576 🔗

I wonder if the Government have actually thought about the fact that people just don’t seem to be having symptoms of Covid any more outside of nursing homes and hospitals? Which could actually be why nobody is bothering? I can’t exactly see an old lady in a wheelchair getting herself down to a testing centre to be tested . . . Sorry that was a bit flippant given the awful situation in care homes, but I’m sure you know what I mean! The vast majority of those infected don’t have symptoms – up to 80%.

29070 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #249 of 576 🔗
29214 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Sarigan, #250 of 576 🔗

Just 77 outside of nosocomial institutions, and of that 77 there is a very good chance there would be no positive test and thus will not be included in the final figures once this is done and dusted.

29159 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to CarrieAH, #251 of 576 🔗

My mother in law is in a care home and they have now all been tested and its negative. We’re hoping the care home lockdown will be lifted soon she’s not seen anything of the family since February/March.

29161 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #252 of 576 🔗

Of course they have.

I used to think they were incompetent, now I know they are totalitarian bastards.

29235 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #253 of 576 🔗

I’ve ditched Twitter (well, got thrown off 3 times), Facebook and LinkedIn

29039 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #254 of 576 🔗


This disastrous lockdown can never be repeated, even if the virus returns

29076 ▶▶ IanE, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #255 of 576 🔗

If even Hague, disastrous sycophant-in-chief, gets it, why, oh why, doesn’t the Boris oaf?!

29050 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 12, #256 of 576 🔗

Watching the Primark video was a sure fired deterrent to shopping there.

29124 ▶▶ sunchap, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #257 of 576 🔗

IMHO these lockdowns are the stupidest world wide trend since the nationalisation of private industries in the 1950’s. Luckily not quite as ruinously expensive…Is it my imagination or have scientists just ruined their reputation for being bright?

29146 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to sunchap, 1, #258 of 576 🔗

Well we know now that science can also be bought especially those based in universities. The shameless way they prostitute themselves to China is cringe inducing.

29154 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to sunchap, #259 of 576 🔗

They used to be in the shadows now they’re in the limelight revealing they’re not quite so brilliant afterall.

29063 assoc, replying to assoc, 2, #260 of 576 🔗

I’m rather concerned that Boris is talking about a Brexit deal with the EU by July.
We know that the EU policy is always to spin out negotiations to the eleventh hour. If Boris is to get an early deal I think he is going to have to make massive concessions.

29074 ▶▶ IanE, replying to assoc, 1, #261 of 576 🔗

‘Massive’ concessions – quite, sadly he is the right man for those.

29066 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 9, #262 of 576 🔗

Please can someone set up a counter petition against the wimps signing a petition for the village to close:


If you don’t like it then stay at home!

29068 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Moomin, 5, #263 of 576 🔗

Everyone off to Bicester then … !

29085 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to JohnB, 2, #264 of 576 🔗

Aaah Bicester! Makes nice gravy.

29091 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnB, #265 of 576 🔗

TeeHee, I like your thinking!

29077 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Moomin, 2, #266 of 576 🔗

Doesn’t this go against their support for the Lesbian, Gay, Bi-cester, and Trans community?

29102 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Moomin, 2, #267 of 576 🔗

They’re probably all crowded in the street because the shops aren’t letting them in order to maintain “distancing”. This hasn’t really been thought through…

29111 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to guy153, 3, #268 of 576 🔗

This hasn’t really been thought through…”

None of it has, unless I am missing something.

No-one has been able to explain any of it to me.

29067 Panda, replying to Panda, 25, #269 of 576 🔗

Hi all

First of all, thank you so much to Toby for all the hard work he’s put into this site. It’s helped to keep me somewhat sane during the utter insanity we’re living through right now. I’ve also greatly appreciated the other contributors below the line.

I’m a serving police officer (I won’t say more than that in the interests of self preservation) although not currently on duty. I just wanted to comment on the whole face mask situation and the wider “emergency” coronavirus legislation that has been enacted by the government.

It’s important to point out that in no way am I encouraging you to break these laws, I am merely pointing out flaws in the legislation that puts the police in a very difficult position.

My general point is that they are, essentially, unenforceable. I understand that this probably isn’t a surprise to many, but if you write in (entirely necessary) caveats into law such as “breathing difficulties” exemptions, the whole thing becomes extremely difficult for us as police officers to effectively enforce at a practical level. How would I ever prove that a person has asthma, for example? I thankfully have no power to demand someone produces an inhaler, a Dr’s note or any other overt indicator of illness. What on the hierarchy of breathing disorders counts as being a reasonable excuse not to wear a face mask? It’s far beyond my ability and position to fairly judge that. The same goes for “wearing a mask would cause anxiety or distress”. How on earth could I – fairly or with any degree of effectiveness – judge if that is the case or not?

I must point out that officers don’t need to prove an offence beyond reasonable doubt to issue a fixed penalty notice, arrest, or even charge someone. So it is possible that someone with genuine breathing difficulties could be given an FPN (or worse) because the officer didn’t believe their reasonable excuse at the time. My point is though that any subsequent prosecution for failing to pay the FPN would be fraught with difficulties for police/CPS, because of the way the legislation has been written.

The most likely outcome in cases of face mask doubt will be denial of service rather than an FPN. You could become a trespasser in circumstances like this where you are asked to leave a station/train/bus for failing to wear a mask. If asked to leave, you should do so in my humble opinion.

The same applies to the coronavirus 2020 legislation. It’s rushed, poorly written and ill thought out legislation which has made it virtually impossible to enforce.

Trust me, I do not want to be enforcing any of this. As cliched as it sounds, I joined the police to protect people from scumbags that use violence and intimidation as a way of life. That’s all I want to do. I did not sign up to issue penalty notices to someone who don’t want/choose to wear a face mask because it further legitimises and propagates this huge overreaction to Covid. That person is me! “The police are the public and the public are the police” springs to mind!

29347 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Panda, 2, #270 of 576 🔗

Thank you for your post – it’s really appreciated to hear the point of view of a police officer.

29348 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #271 of 576 🔗

I second that.

29079 iainclark, replying to iainclark, 7, #272 of 576 🔗

Having watched the video about the horrors of shopping at Primark I can’t understand why anyone would bother going when you can order online.

The new normal is the old normal with the fun removed.

29082 ▶▶ matt, replying to iainclark, 14, #273 of 576 🔗

New normal is the old normal with the normal removed.

29084 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 16, #274 of 576 🔗

New normal is unworkable, unnatural, unsustainable, immoral, against nature

29097 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Julian, 5, #275 of 576 🔗

Not to mention highly inefficient and unproductive.

29090 ▶▶ IanE, replying to iainclark, 6, #276 of 576 🔗

Yes, lots of pain, negative gain. These scenes could, so easily, be from a dystopian sci-fi film.

29093 ChrisH29, replying to ChrisH29, 15, #277 of 576 🔗

It appears that Primark, along with all the other supine coronaphobic sheep in the country wish to commit suicide. With all that fear mongering nonsense and without changing rooms why on earth would anyone bother going to a store? They have just destroyed the only advantage they had over on-line distributors. Why didn’t they just put up signs outside saying “F*** Off – Go to Amazon”?

29096 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to ChrisH29, 7, #278 of 576 🔗

I hated shopping before, but now there is even less reason to go. Why on earth would I want to queue for up to a hour to get in, then have a shit anxious experience inside the shop, whereas I can just order online and enjoy that time I would’ve spent queuing.

29291 ▶▶ mjr, replying to ChrisH29, 1, #279 of 576 🔗

i went to town shopping for first time today. centre had installed a one way system and many of the shops had also gone over the top. However the one shop i did visit was Shoezone and they were wonderfully laid back, no masks, no disinfecting shoes i had fondled. it was almost like normal . Also got two pairs of trainers for £12.99 (Bogof offer).

29094 daveyp, replying to daveyp, 2, #280 of 576 🔗

I posted a few weeks ago about a deaths appearing in the ONS Week 19 and Week 20 figures that was shown to have occurred in Week 7 during February. The ONS have now removed this from their figures

“Data provided for 2020 is provisional and can be updated throughout the year. Our death registration data is regularly quality assured and upon investigation we discovered that the death occurring in February was mis-registered and was meant to have a date of death in April. This death has now been corrected to provide the correct date of death.”

I find it very strange that they would allow this death to be put into their figures when the whole narrative is that the first COVID-19 death was the 2nd March. Surely, someone must’ve thought “hang on, this isn’t right?” but no, this death appeared in their figures for two weeks.

Cover up possibly?

29099 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to daveyp, #281 of 576 🔗

In hindsight a ‘print screen’ of the information would have been great.

29104 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Victoria, #282 of 576 🔗

I posted a screenshot of it on here in my original post, and I’ve still got the Excel Spreadsheets for weeks 19 and 20 that include the figure.

29105 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Victoria, #283 of 576 🔗

Here you go:

29148 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to daveyp, #284 of 576 🔗

I think they need to downplay the idea that the virus was already circulating in Europe in January and perhaps earlier than that, because accepting that fact would mean that COVID-19 is nowhere near as dangerous as they would like us to believe.

29171 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to jrsm, #285 of 576 🔗

I don’t see the general public making that logical connection I’m afraid n

29197 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to matt, #286 of 576 🔗

True, they just read the headline.

29095 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 11, #287 of 576 🔗

About a week ago I heard some expert – no doubt an epidemiologist (we seem to have thousands of these state-funded functionaries dotted around the UK, much use have they done us) – “explaining” the relative risks of one and two metre distancing. She was clearly an enthusiast for super-restrictive practices. It’s interesting how they insert little phrases that the average listener probably doesn’t notice but clearly create scope for misdirection. For example, one phrase she used was “in certain conditions”…That probably means laboratory conditions involving a whole series of occurrences never to be met in real life. Then another was “a higher probabiliy” – which could mean anything, maybe a 1% increased chance of getting the sniffles, rather than a 50% increased chance of dying.

I seriously question the value of epidemiology as a discipline. They seem to have no certain knowledge of (a) how many people have been infected (b) how many people have been exposed to and fought off the virus (c) how many people have actually died principally of Covid-19 as opposed to having it as one among several pathogens impairing their lung and circulatory function and (d) who’s had what strain when. And yet they build these huge castles in the air based on such flimsy foundations.

29131 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to OKUK, 3, #288 of 576 🔗

Yes, I think epidemiology is a circular, self-justifying discipline working in an imaginary domain. It seems to have no connection with reality.

29139 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Barney McGrew, #289 of 576 🔗

I’m sure many epidemiologists will claim it’s retropectively and exact science.

29303 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #290 of 576 🔗

“retrospectively an exact science.”

Where’s the edit button?

29314 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, #291 of 576 🔗

Don’t worry – got it

29300 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, #292 of 576 🔗

Its not epidemiology that’s the problem its the frauds that claim to be epidemiologists that are the problem. A tree surgeon performs a useful function but a murderer that uses his tools is a murderer not a tree surgeon.

29301 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #293 of 576 🔗

We have to hold people to account not disciplines.

29323 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Saved To Death, #294 of 576 🔗

What I’m saying is, that if epidemiology must always have an R0 number to quote then that means it is using a proven faulty model.

As an outsider looking in, it does seem that there is a fixed model at the heart of epidemiology that has not caught up with the subtleties of immunology.

The immunologists, on the other hand, seem happy to let the epidemiologists get on with it without correcting them. No one wants to be accused of ‘epistemic trespass’.

29329 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, #295 of 576 🔗

The good epidemiologist therefore will make it clear what the limitations of their numbers are and that they should never be used for making certain decisions – like taking peoples liberty away. As Lord Sumption says – they will not be used to place weapons in certain peoples hands.

Models are merely tools. They serve a purpose but not the purpose that the frauds are trying to use them for. Every model is faulty to some degree.

The problem is the good epidemiologists are few and far between and in our current environment subject to heavy censorship.

29336 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #296 of 576 🔗

But that’s what I’m doubting. I’m not sure there is such a thing as a good epidemiologist. Just as there isn’t a good astrologer.

29377 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, #297 of 576 🔗

I am sure there are some but as the major institutions have become totally captured and corrupt they may struggle to be employed as such anymore. The study of epidemiology is not inherently evil or built on a flawed basis, it just does not provide the ability to predict the future or solve problems in the way fraudulent people claim.

29391 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Saved To Death, #298 of 576 🔗

“not… built on a flawed basis”. How do you know? It’s like economics: it can only study by modelling or passively observing the world rather than performing controlled experiments, and people’s behaviour changes in response to its ‘findings’. I could, however, cope with those difficulties if I thought that epidemiology’s central model was reflecting the best ideas in immunology. However, everything I have seen shows me that it isn’t. It is being left to people like Michael Levitt to spot the fundamental flaws even though it isn’t his subject.

29400 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, #299 of 576 🔗

I think economics is another field of study that has been deeply corrupted, essentially now it exists to get people to accept a fundamentally fraudulent monetary system as the only good monetary system and to obfuscate to ensure few people can understand whats going on.

That being said it does not mean that there is nothing to gain through the honest study of economics. Something does not have to be a hard science to potentially bring value. Sure its not going to allow you to do the equivalent of predict the next solar eclipse but that does make make it inherently evil or useless.

29382 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, #300 of 576 🔗

In the right hands even a ‘proven faulty model’ can be useful as its a stepping stone towards a less faulty model. In the wrong hands it would appear it can be used as a justification to destroy the world. Its the owner of the hands that is at fault not the faulty model itself.

29106 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 28, #301 of 576 🔗

Can someone please MAKE THIS STOP!!! It’s so hard watching the world go mad and thinking you’re the one going mad when you’re not! When will people wake up? Please WAKE UP!!!

Why aren’t NHS stuff opposing the mask wearing rule? I just don’t get it, why don’t they push back?

29108 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Moomin, 9, #302 of 576 🔗

Peer pressure? Plus if you speak out of turn, that’s your career over.

29232 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to daveyp, #303 of 576 🔗

Well I removed my profile from LinkedIn this morning. Ditched the whole thing. If people and companies promote their own views and agendas, how can they not expect people to comment on them?

29368 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Jonathan Castro, #304 of 576 🔗

Don’t know if anyone has Sky but on the homepage there is now a Black Lives Matter App which if you select it say that it will educate you on this subject.

29112 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Moomin, 9, #305 of 576 🔗

My daughter works in a hospital and she is disgusted with the compulsory mask wearing and so are nearly all of her colleagues,they have complained to management but have pretty much been told if you won’t wear a mask go and collect your P45 from admin. Patients are forced to wear them aswell apart from on the ward they are staying in,I wonder if a patient refuses if they will be thrown out ?.

29128 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Paul, 3, #306 of 576 🔗

That’s shocking. Can’t they invoke their human rights?

29151 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Moomin, 2, #307 of 576 🔗

LOL we don’t have any human rights, they’re for the few not the many.

29294 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Bella Donna, #308 of 576 🔗

We always have our natural rights the problem is there are people violating them not that we do not have them.

29173 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Paul, 3, #309 of 576 🔗

Risk loosing job or submit to living under ever growing totalitarianism. Most of this country for better or worse worships the NHS – if they don’t push back I don’t see how we will get out of this and the worst is yet to come.

29115 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Moomin, 7, #310 of 576 🔗

I see a lot of NHS staff being signed off sick due to this full time wearing of a mask (stress, anxiety, bacterial infections, skin conditions etc)

29122 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Victoria, 3, #311 of 576 🔗

When I worked in the NHS, staff would go off with the slightest excuse like “someone talked down to me”, “someone looked at me funny”. The good old “bad back” and “stress” were the most common, then they would have 5 months off and come back in (because at 6 months there had be an official investigation into their leave which could end in them being laid off), then they would do 1 months work in the hospital, and then they’d go off for another 5 months, then just rinse and repeat.

It was so bad in the department I worked in. that they spent £200,000 doing a management of change. This meant that the roles of all those taking the piss with sick leave were removed, and they had to apply for other roles which they would not get.

A lot of them still got big payoffs though as they were always clued up on union rules.

29137 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to daveyp, 1, #312 of 576 🔗

I saw a comment in one of the news sites that NHS staff have been booking overtime then calling in sick with virus symptoms and still getting paid for the overtime. Come back after 14 days, rinse and repeat.

Can’t say whether it’s true or not but based on what you’ve just said it wouldn’t surprise me if it was.

29299 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Nobody2020, #313 of 576 🔗

From what I have been told that sort of thing has been going on,one woman apparently declared herself as vulnerable at the very start of this because she had asthma,even though she told others in the department she hadn’t had any symptoms for over 15 years,told management she was going to self isolate for 12 weeks and went home !.After six weeks she was told to return to work or lose her job,she returned and the first thing she did was book a weeks leave for the following week !.

29313 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Paul, #314 of 576 🔗

Yeah, there’s loads of that going on at the mo. I’ve been contracted to carry out a 20 day piece of work with a NHS Trust since the start of lockdown. So far due to supposed illness I’ve completed 6 days, and currently the project has been completely paused due to the head honcho now going on long term sick leave.

29484 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Moomin, #315 of 576 🔗

They are being gagged..they are being forbidden to speak to the media..

29116 Paul, replying to Paul, 7, #316 of 576 🔗

The pro-lockdown and distancing fanatics seem to be getting ever more rabid.My wife has just been in Aldi and some really obnoxious woman customer was tearing into a man who she claimed had invaded her 2m by telling him,’it’s bloody stupid people like you that are spreading this awful virus ‘,also another woman who felt her special 6 foot protection bubble had been broken was telling everyone in earshot,’If I see that cow again in the car park I am going to effing smack her’,charming.

29117 ▶▶ matt, replying to Paul, 3, #317 of 576 🔗

The second lady must either have had very long arms or a pole weapon of some kind

29297 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to matt, #318 of 576 🔗

Yes,I didn’t think of that,what a bloody hypocrite she is !

29118 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Paul, 6, #319 of 576 🔗

Sad, but more people need to challenge them

29125 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Paul, 1, #320 of 576 🔗

Well, if she will shop in Aldi!

29293 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to IanE, 2, #321 of 576 🔗

My local Lidl is the sanest store in the area so that’s why I shop there now, it is very close to normal. Its often a pleasant surprise when the total price is displayed at the till as well.

29134 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Paul, 7, #322 of 576 🔗

I’ve had people coming to fisticuffs on the public footpath outside my house because of being too close to each other. It’s a fucking joke, people have gone crazy!!!

29138 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 5, #323 of 576 🔗

God, how awful. I had a similar experience when this nightmare first started. Some woman physically prevented me from steering my trolley past her, also in Aldi. What’s depressing is that people such as her and the one you mention here are getting more entrenched in their view.

On a happier note, here there appears to be a bit of an uprising. Just had one (er … how to describe her, older lady) say she might be dead soon so she would go the whole hog on the scone front! Way to go …

29229 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Paul, 1, #324 of 576 🔗

Sounds awful. I had a similar experience yesterday. If it happens again I’ll be barking some words of rebuke back!

29120 Nic, replying to Nic, 1, #325 of 576 🔗

I still think the government will kick the can down the road until late august .that’s when the results of the oxford vaccine trial will be ready. They are pinning everything on a positive result. I hope they are right.
Iv been scouring the news but haven’t found a recent update on how the vaccine is progressing.

29126 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Nic, 26, #326 of 576 🔗

I’m no anti-vaxxer but I won’t be having a vaccine. For one it’s not necessary, and secondly rolling out a vaccine so quickly will involve serious risk.

29196 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Moomin, 1, #327 of 576 🔗

This is from the 1970s, the last time the population was inoculated with a fast-tracked vaccine for swine flu in 1976:


At least back then journalists researched and questioned, not copy and paste press release, read teleprompter without thinking merchants like now.

29127 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nic, 3, #328 of 576 🔗

Are you saying that you’d like the entire country to be vaccinated with a ‘fast-tracked’ vaccine?

29152 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #329 of 576 🔗

No I personally am not worried by the virus .its just that so many sheep are scared that even a placebo vaccine would convince them to come out from behind the front door.
And I wont have 1 myself

29130 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Nic, #330 of 576 🔗

They will know by August if effective according to this article but it doesn’t stop the money flowing in:


29140 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, 8, #331 of 576 🔗

I don’t think hoping/waiting for a vaccine is a viable exit strategy, and that’s leaving aside any argument about whether it would possibly do more harm than good.

Focus on a vaccine stops us moving on from where we are now to a point where we accept the virus is with us, for the long term, and we have to live with the consequences which may be a slightly reduced life expectancy, especially for those with certain other health conditions, and the need to protect the vulnerable more effectively and to work on better approaches and drugs to treat the disease to increase survival rates and mitigate the long term effects on health.

That has always seemed to me the only exit strategy that makes any sense.

I am not convinced that any more than a small minority could actually stick the “new normal” for more than a few months, especially as we’d all get poorer and poorer, and more and more unhealthy, but if the worst happens and we carry on with it, I’ll be trying to go and live in some country where life has returned to how it was before.

Talk of suppressing the virus seems dangerous to me, because it perpetuates the thinking that it can somehow be got rid of, which seems unrealistic.

29149 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Julian, #332 of 576 🔗

Another aspect is that it’s likely (a) the virus will become less dangerous (b) we’ll develop a general resistance/immunity as time goes on.

29164 ▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Julian, #333 of 576 🔗

Agree some good points I could not live in a new normal

29142 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Sarigan, 2, #334 of 576 🔗

What do we mean by “effective”? The flu vaccine has to be updated every year and even then it’s only partially effective.

That’s why I haven’t yet dismissed the possibility of a placebo vaccine. It’s 100% safe and 100% effective. And it comes with an accompanying D-Notice.

29157 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Sarigan, #335 of 576 🔗

The reason I posted was that it seems to fit in with the time line the government is pursuing might be wrong what do other people think.,

29132 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Nic, 2, #336 of 576 🔗

This is only stage 1 of the trials though, there is three stages to vaccine trials. Even if it’s a success the other trials are going to take 5-10 years, and that is if it passes each stage.

29135 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nic, 7, #337 of 576 🔗

I share the views of Kevin and Barney. I think we should be highly suspicious about the motivations of our politicians and the timings. I am deeply concerned by the vaccine -pushing brigade and their billionaire philanthropic supporters. I am pro-vaccine generally.

29158 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #338 of 576 🔗

I’m ok with vaccines if they have been properly tested over a number of years. Although I can’t remember the last time I had a vaccine – probably childhood. I just keep my immune system operating at peak efficiency. This vaccine won’t be for me I’m afraid – too risky. Having worked within the industry, I don’t trust Big Pharma or Bill Gates.

29176 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to CarrieAH, #339 of 576 🔗

Agree. Big Pharma needed a new generation of blockbusters after the patent cliff-edge of 2011-2019, and bingo! As to philanthropists, just hand over the cheque-book (in entirety, if the conscience needed to be salved is so deep) and get out of the way. I have looked in some detail at several pre, and inter-War philanthropic activity. When you look behind the scenes it is nothing more than a marketing airbrush – a down-payment offset to some dubious business dealings.

29474 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to CarrieAH, #340 of 576 🔗

I’ve seen videos with informations from whistleblowers from GSK and what they are saying about what is in the vaccine sounds plausible, from what I know of Bill Gates’ previous vaccines..ie they contain agents that sterilise people.. Gates has been thrown out of several countries because of doing the same thing before.

29163 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Nic, 3, #341 of 576 🔗

I think the government will struggle to get anyone under the age of 30 to accept the vaccine. As each day passes this group of people will grow as it dawns on people, slowly, that they’ve been sold a pup

29311 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #342 of 576 🔗

From people I’ve been talking to under 30, they can’t wait to have the vaccination. When I speak to customers about the lockdown I tend to hear the following: “Can’t wait until October when this vaccine is available so I can have it and start living my life again”.

It amazes me each time I hear it, that they could even contemplate having a vaccine that was only created within 3 months injected into you without any proper safety tests. These are people with partners and young kids too, willing to risk death or disablement for an iffy vaccine.

29397 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #343 of 576 🔗

I think it’s the other way round. Most the younger people will believe the government That’s it’s good for them.

29404 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, #344 of 576 🔗

Warning: gross generalisation ahead.

The under 30s are used to a world where, once they believe something, nobody challenges them and it always makes sense. They’re used to a world where they’re safe, all the time, from everything. The under 30s, from what I can see in London, are the portion of the population most likely to wear a mask and to swerve away from other human beings on the street.

They’re also the most likely to congregate in their dozens in the park for a drinking session and to meet up in Westminster to smash shit up, but sometimes boredom overcomes safetyism.

To be fair, my experience of the under 30s in Newcastle is… different.

29169 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nic, 2, #345 of 576 🔗

That is a possible scenario. Despite the fact that this virus is very mild for most they have invested millions into developing vaccines and somehow wants a return on investment.

They gamble everything on a vaccine that would not have been tested for side effects such as death and disability. These new vaccines permanently change your RNA/DNA and nobody knows what the future implications would be.

29198 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Victoria, 1, #346 of 576 🔗

The proposed vaccine doesn’t permanently change your DNA but it is quite risky. The problem is that lots of coronoavirus vaccine attempts in the past have caused “enhancement” (making the disease worse).

Nobody ever got to the bottom of why. There are some theories and some reasons to believe that the newer generation of vaccines might be better but there’s no certainty about any of it.

29219 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, #347 of 576 🔗

Nice to see that “precautionary principle” we hear about so often (when it suits those making an argument for something they want for other reasons) in action.

29170 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Nic, 1, #348 of 576 🔗

If everybody happily takes the vaccine the only thing to expect is ‘Pandemic 2’ and the whole cycle repeating again. The only way out is for the vast bulk of the people to stop following their orders.

29182 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nic, 2, #349 of 576 🔗

Will COVID-19 End Vaccine Dogma by Inducing Mass Death? A vaccine is now the most coveted “cure” for COVID-19, but mounting evidence suggests a mass vaccination campaign might ultimately end the vaccine dogma altogether by causing mass casualties.
As reported in “ Newborns To Be Separated From Parents for COVID-19 Testing ,” Bill Gates recently stated on his blog 29 , 30 that “the COVID-19 vaccine might become part of the routine newborn immunization schedule.” This, despite the fact that COVID-19 presents virtually no risk to children and only three children have died from alleged COVID-19 illness in the U.S. — and even those deaths, as of June 8, 2020, had not yet had COVID-19 confirmed as the likely cause of death. 31
While many have expressed concern about testing the fast-tracked COVID-19 vaccine on children, the University of Oxford in partnership with the drug company AstraZeneca have announced their plan to do just that. 32 The vaccine, known only as AZD1222, is a recombinant adenovirus vaccine.
Phase 2 of the trial will include “a small number” of children between the ages of 5 and 12. 33 Disturbingly, a meningococcal vaccine — not an inert placebo — will serve as the control, and participants are only asked to log symptoms occurring in the week after vaccination. According to Fierce Biotech: 34

“… it will take longer to gauge whether the shot can prevent people from becoming infected with the coronavirus. The researchers are trying to accelerate that process by enrolling healthcare workers and other people who are more likely to be exposed to the virus.

Depending on the extent to which SARS-CoV-2 is present in the U.K., it is expected to take two to six months for enough infections to happen to show whether the vaccine is working.

Neither the university nor AstraZeneca are hanging around to see if that is the case before preparing for widespread use of the vaccine. The phase 2/3 trial is getting underway despite the university being yet to share phase 1 data, and AstraZeneca is already racing to equip itself to ship 1 billion doses.”

As discussed in “ Fast-Tracked COVID-19 Vaccine — What Could Go Wrong? ” and stressed in Sorensen’s Quarterly Review of Biophysics Discovery paper 35 discussed earlier, if the vaccine ends up having the same problem as previous coronavirus vaccines , they could make exposure to the wild virus all the more dangerous , actually raising your risk of very serious infection and death by inducing paradoxical immune enhancement.


29192 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Victoria, #350 of 576 🔗

“Phase 2 of the trial will include “a small number” of children between the ages of 5 and 12.”

!!! How does that work, then? Who gives their children over for such a trial, and how does the child of five give their consent?

29289 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #351 of 576 🔗

We have permitted some truly evil people to take control.

29480 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, #352 of 576 🔗

Gates is also planning to take newborns from their mothers to test them for CV19 and even if they test negative they will be kept from the mother and re-tested 24 hours later. What is the betting they will see to it that the 2nd test is positive? It will psychologically damage the baby to be separated from it’s mother..

29227 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Nic, #353 of 576 🔗

Personally I’m hoping no vaccine is found.
Their argument will then look even more stupid the longer it goes on.

29121 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #354 of 576 🔗

I have two recurring nightmares.

1) The Government admit they got it all wrong and everyone should go back to their normal lives.
Sounds great but few believe them. How could the science be wrong? How could so many die? Instead of returning to normal life, the people want to wait for a vaccine and eradicate the virus as the fear is so deeply ingrained.

2) We are forced to carry on with the ‘new normal’ until a vaccine is found (whether it works or not is irrelevant) and the virus is eradicated.
The masses praise the Government for their handling of the ‘pandemic’ and saving so many lives despite the economic and social costs incurred. Just as a precaution though, some measures must stay in place for the ‘foreseeable future’ to make sure there is no resurgence. As they did so well before, this is widely accepted as we couldn’t possibly make it through a second ‘more deadly’ wave.

To dream of a virus represents a contagious or self-perpetuating negative influence. Negative behavior, attitudes, or beliefs that seem to spread uncontrollably.

Alternatively, dream of a virus may reflect a negative influence that feels like it’s permanent once you or someone else has been exposed to it.

29129 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Sarigan, 5, #355 of 576 🔗

1) We live in a day and age where no politician admits they’re wrong, so will never happen.

2) I think this is the reality, looking at the government docs they say there will be no change until a vaccine, or other therapeutic medicine is found.

I do not see any way out of this.

29133 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to daveyp, 4, #356 of 576 🔗

1) Even if they did, which they won’t, I fear that the masses would not even believe them
2) Worryingly I agree

I cannot see a way out of this either. There are too many who have bought into it hook, line and sinker.

29143 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to daveyp, #357 of 576 🔗

I agree

29145 ▶▶▶ 4096, replying to daveyp, 7, #358 of 576 🔗

Yes, it all does seem pretty depressing but I, perhaps naively, believe that the truth and reality always catches up with you sooner or later.
I am sure that the shock of the recession (depression?) when it finally comes will make a lot of people snap out of their groupthink-induced germaphobia.

29150 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to 4096, 1, #359 of 576 🔗

Agree. I’m also a believer of ‘what goes around’, and that ‘money talks’ – or lack of it in this case.

29155 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to 4096, #360 of 576 🔗

I think it used to, but now with social media the political machines and MSM can put out so much disinformation that it is impossible to ever find the truth.

A good example of this is the Malaysian Airlines MH17 that was shot down over the Ukraine. Shed loads of disinformation on social media, loads of misinformation from the MSM, so it’s impossible to believe the official investigation or the Russian official line. Sadly, for the families of those killed it’s unlikely the truth will ever be known.

29223 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to 4096, 2, #361 of 576 🔗

8 days until Dolan’s court case 🙂

29147 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to daveyp, 1, #362 of 576 🔗

Money tends to focus the mind. Panic will set in in The Treasury, if it hasn’t already.

29156 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #363 of 576 🔗

Oddly enough, it doesn’t seem to for the first time ever. Which I find extremely worrying.

29220 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to daveyp, 2, #364 of 576 🔗

No politician admits they were wrong because they are all psychopaths!

29272 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #365 of 576 🔗

According to two Spanish psychiatrists, Joaquin Sama and Abigail Rodriguez, the Spanish PM is a “narcissistic psycopath”. Rodriguez claims he is “amoral because he is not capable of distinguishing right from wrong”.

29309 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Jonathan Castro, #366 of 576 🔗

True, if you looks at the top 10 professions with psychopaths then you can see a lot of them are involved in this lockdown:

  1. CEO’s
  2. Lawyers
  3. Media Celebrities (TV/Radio)
  4. Salespersons
  5. Surgeons
  6. Journalists
  7. Police Officers
  8. Clergy Persons
  9. Chefs
  10. Civil Servants/Politicians

29165 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 17, #367 of 576 🔗

There is a third option and it’s the one I’m pinning my hopes on, even though it’s going to be a slog. Death figures and infection rates dwindle to virtually nothing; everyone starts to interest; government removed all of the mandatory distance and muzzle crap, while “monitoring” the situation in case of a second wave. People keep walking around like terrified sheep for a while, but more and more people start to remember how much better the real normal was. Finally everything slips back to how it was, except for a few particular idiots who persist with their muzzles. The stupider bits of legislation are binned when parliament gets to renew them. The more draconian control and surveillance bits are tested in the courts and found to be unlawful.

As I say – not a quick solution, but it relies on humans being humans, which is what humans tend to be.

29166 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to matt, 2, #368 of 576 🔗

I hope so too, but it’s taking longer than I thought it would…

29167 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #369 of 576 🔗

Yes indeed, it would be a “good” outcome, albeit a huge amount of damage has already been done.

29287 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #370 of 576 🔗

We have not got long until winter which will give them plenty of opportunity to ratchet us down further.

29184 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to matt, 2, #371 of 576 🔗

Based on temporary legislation that was brought in after 9/11 which is all still in effect today (and even stricter than back then), I very much doubt that the freedoms that have been taken off us will be easily handed back.

29199 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to daveyp, 2, #372 of 576 🔗

No. This is my main concern. There are going to have to be a lot of court cases.

29190 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 2, #373 of 576 🔗

Agree. I think our government are just going to copy the rest of the Western Europe as they did going into all this.

China on the other hand seem to have decided to go around chasing an endemic virus forever.

29144 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 10, #374 of 576 🔗

My library books were due back early March so imagine my surprise when shortly after lockdown I received an email from the library advising me they were closed and my books had been redated for sometime in July! I thought back then how could they possibly know this lockdown would last that long This morning an email arrived advising they would be open g from 6th July further details to follow. Coincidence or planned?

29153 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #375 of 576 🔗

Planned. The original furlough scheme ran until July too.

29160 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #376 of 576 🔗

The universities were told to clear halls of residence in early March. Schools were sent advice for ‘alternate’ measures for the public exams from the exam boards on 16 January – I had assumed it was in case of a strike, but maybe not!

29202 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #377 of 576 🔗


2 months ago our local TESCO manager told us they had been told by senior management at board level (who are linked to Bill Gates, international private banks and GSK and other pharmaceutical companies)to be prepared and to expect to do the social distancing, queueing outside etc until Christmas.

29471 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #378 of 576 🔗

Until Christmas… great…(not)..

29266 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #379 of 576 🔗

Further evidence – back at the beginning of April the BBC announced that their new range of educational programming for children out of school was scheduled to last for 13 weeks! Conveniently until the end of the summer term. They definitely knew something that we didn’t…

29333 ▶▶ Anon, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #380 of 576 🔗

Planned – I’ve long suspected Gladys and Margaret who stamp the books at the local library were behind this entire thing.

29789 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bella Donna, #381 of 576 🔗

Planned.My wife was told by a friend who works in the Home Office that lockdown would last 12 weeks.The original plan was 4 weeks.1 week either side of the Easter break.i remember at the time thinking it was nonsense.we are now in the13th week of lockdown

29168 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 8, #382 of 576 🔗

Just back from town, nipped in to finish off what i’d tried to do yesterday. The bank had no Q outside today but I dutifully stood in the sun waiting myh turn. The sign said no more then 4 customers at a time, there were 6 customers inside, but luckily no one round here can count. No one shouted at me during my customer experience. Some of the bank staff were wearing full face visors, this is prommising, maybe the bank is branching out into dentistry, very enterprising – I might try and book a slot for a polish.
I hate shopping so I dont know what the rest of the high st was like, but it seemed quite busy.

Next went to Morrisons to pick up my ”unreported truths about covid-19 and lockdowns” booklet from the Amazon locker (it was only part 1, this is going to get expensive) There was no Q outside, but a bored Q director, soaking up the vit D, gave me a cheery ”good morning”. Do we Brits need to be directed in Qs? – we are the world experts at Q-ing.

i did a quick, headless chicken, shop – getting stuff i don’t need and forgetting everything i do need, there may/may not have been direction arrows, i didnt notice. No one dived out of my way or shouted at me – people just seemed to be happy and friendly as normal. There were a few fashion accessory muzzles – but in a free country it is a person right to look ridiculous.

The roads are annoyingly busy – people round here just seem to have the ”crack on” attitude – although i am sure there are still plenty who will need to be entised out of their homes with trails of cheese – but they have probably moved up here from the south.

29206 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Major Panic, 2, #383 of 576 🔗

I love the idea of the scared witless being enticed out of their homes with trails of cheese! 😂

29239 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Major Panic, #384 of 576 🔗

Loved this post! We should all look at all this Q ing business as a matter of urgency

29282 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Major Panic, 2, #385 of 576 🔗

We’re experts in the old Q-ing, really they should be called Q re-education officers.

29394 ▶▶ steve, replying to Major Panic, 2, #386 of 576 🔗

“ There were a few fashion accessory muzzles – but in a free country it is a person right to look ridiculous.”

Loved this bit. These are the idiots I hate the most. People who actually picked out some fashion item.

I was in the supermarket a week ago. One 25 yrs old guy buying CIGARETTES from the counter in a mask. Then the moron turned round and walked back up the one way isle towards me and looked at me as it to give him 2 meters space.

Hope the Darwin awards applied to him one day

29172 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 3, #387 of 576 🔗

Just been told spain is re-opening for Brits – brilliant news! My flights wont be wasted afterall!
Iv alredy missed 2 ski trips and 2 spain trips because of all this bollocks.

29174 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Major Panic, 1, #388 of 576 🔗

Spain ha just said that they are imposing a 14 day quarantine for Brits in response to ours.

29183 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 1, #390 of 576 🔗


29189 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Major Panic, 1, #391 of 576 🔗

I think it will be reversed. News I am getting from the industry is that air bridges will be in place before the end of the month.

A useful resource (that the UK has not signed up to yet):


29207 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Sarigan, #392 of 576 🔗

I really hope so! I’ve already had 6 flights cancelled since April by easyJet 😥

29248 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Sarigan, 3, #393 of 576 🔗

They won’t be missing much. The insane ballbags in the Spanish government are doing everything in their power to make everyone’s holidays as shit as possible. Just yesterday I saw a couple being refused admission to a half empty beachside bar/restaurant because its capacity is limited. Depending on the region, you also may have to make an appointment to go to the beach. Benidorm announced this measure yesterday.

29280 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to paulito, 1, #394 of 576 🔗

Lol yeah, friends i stay with over there have been stopped a couple of times by police armed to the teath wanting a good reason why they are out and about – uk plates probably dont help

Should be fine, they know where to go where we shouldnt get hassled, hopefully

29324 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, #395 of 576 🔗

Shooting themselves in the foot with a machine pistol!

29195 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Major Panic, #396 of 576 🔗

Blimey, that’s a lot of missed airmiles over the lockdown!

29204 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Major Panic, #397 of 576 🔗

That’s great Have a good time.
I’m still trying to get back to my summer home on a Greek island – still hoping for mid July.

29234 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to Major Panic, #398 of 576 🔗

Have to off yer rocker to leave these shores until this bullshit is fully resolved.

Taking a humongous chance.

29263 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John Smith, 2, #399 of 576 🔗

lifes too short to wait for ”fully resolved”

29175 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 12, #400 of 576 🔗

My visit to the local Perrywood garden centre resulted in a resolve to never ever support them again – voted with my feet and wallet.

I was told that browsing was not allowed and that I had to take a trolley otherwise I would not be allowed in. When I questioned this non-sensical rule the Queue Director (Thanks for terminology Major Panic) told me that it was according to Government instructions. Asked to speak to a manager who eventually conceded that it was instructions from their sister company Perrywood to make the shopping trip safer for all and not from the Government. The trolleys apparently ensure the 2m distance between people. Oh and I am lucky that they now allow children to accompany adults as they did not allow children when they opened 4 weeks ago.

29181 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 7, #401 of 576 🔗

Hear, hear. The more we walk away hopefully this will force companies to grow some balls and lobby the government to end their insane regulations.

29262 ▶▶ ianp, replying to Victoria, 2, #402 of 576 🔗

Bloody Queue Director, they need to wake up

29296 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Victoria, 2, #403 of 576 🔗

I totally agree with you Victoria,the people that run these companies must live in a different reality to the rest of us,how do they expect to survive whilst at the same time going all out to alienate the customers they must desperately need ?.I have an ever growing list of shops and companies I have vowed never to use again because of the way they are treating customers,I also don’t understand places that have remained open all along fairly normally now deciding to implement stupid measures,a small co-op near me that has been pretty much normal has today introduced a limit of 10 customers at a time in the store.

29466 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul, #404 of 576 🔗

It’s like each shop thinks they are the only place the customer is going to visit.. they haven’t thought about the fact that a customer will have to go through these rigmaroles repeatedly, if they go to a shopping centre. No one needs to sanitise their hands that often, for example…

29464 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, #405 of 576 🔗

But won’t this allow the kiddie-super-speaders to infect any elderly shoppers? Can’t have that now? Or maybe kids don’t spread the virus 😉 !!!

29179 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 29, #406 of 576 🔗

From today’s The Times:

Tories push to drop 2m rule as ‘dire’ jobless figures loom

Conservative MPs have called for the two-metre social-distancing rule to be scrapped as the government braces itself for “dire” unemployment figures.
Official figures released today are expected to show that the number of unemployed people rose to more than two million in the three months to April.
A succession of senior Tory MPs, including the former leaders Lord Hague of Richmond and Sir Iain Duncan Smith and the former cabinet minister Greg Clark, called on the government yesterday to ease the restriction.
There is also mounting pressure within government. Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, said last night that there was nothing magic about the two-metre rule, adding that “the science isn’t set in stone”. Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, has said that reducing it would have a “positive impact” on businesses and jobs.
Downing Street said yesterday that a government review of the rule may take weeks to complete.
Tobias Ellwood, chairman of the defence select committee, said: “One metre is the right decision; now is the right time, not in two weeks.”
Lord Hague wrote in his Daily Telegraph column that ministers could save “great swathes of the hospitality industry” by scrapping the rule now rather than spending “weeks agonising over it”. Mr Clark, chairman of the science and technology committee, said: “[Many] countries have a shorter distance rule but require face coverings to be worn. Why is it right for them but wrong for us?”
Sir Iain said: “The reality is, with our focus on Covid, we are in danger of losing sight of what will happen, probably to the poorest in society, if they start to fall unemployed . . . It could be six weeks before we actually discover the outcome of a review where I don’t believe a single fact is going to change.
“The advisers are all divided. The government must make a decision and get this one right.”
The figures released today are the first official data to show the impact of the lockdown on unemployment. In the three months to March unemployment stood at 1.35 million. It is expected to rise to about two million for the three months to April. “The figures will be dire,” a government source said.
A review of the two-metre rule would strike a balance between protecting health and opening up the economy, the government said, in its first explicit acknowledgement of the trade-off.
Edward Argar, the health minister, said that compulsory facemasks or different rules for outdoors could be among the options set out in a review led by Simon Case, permanent secretary at No 10. He said it would be completed in a matter of weeks but would not commit himself to having it done by the time that pubs and restaurants were due to open on July 4.
He told the Commons that there was “not a fixed science about this” and that many countries had different rules. “They have adopted different approaches to whether they reduce the distance, whether they impose different requirements in respect to facemasks,” Mr Argar said. “So in a sense you’ve got a menu of different options, all of which can reduce risk and it’s how you come up with the most appropriate balance in reducing risk while also opening up business.
“It is not simply a binary choice about distance. There are many other factors that play a part in this.”
The prime minister’s official spokesman said that the review would be completed “in the coming weeks”. It will report to the Covid strategy committee chaired by Boris Johnson.

Jesus wept.

As the government dithers, those numbers will set to go up. I really think the likes of Johnson, Cummings and Hancock must go. As the rest of SAGE.

Then all of them should face severe punishment for having trashed our economy and society.

29194 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #407 of 576 🔗

Oh ffs. What, they’re only just realising the economic devastation that’s coming our way? Did they really just think it was a case of pressing the ‘pause’ button on the economy and that everything would magically go back to normal? What about the three months’ lost trade that businesses have to somehow claw back?

29211 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 5, #408 of 576 🔗

I agree. It makes you wonder what this lot are thinking, that is if they’re doing any thinking at all.

29200 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #409 of 576 🔗

They can’t be that idiotic. I could’ve told them that in March. Unless this is all a performance and we are the (paying) audience.

29209 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Winston Smith, 5, #410 of 576 🔗

I think they are. What do you expect from a bunch of people who did la-la land degrees at uni and have never done a proper day’s work in their life?

29215 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #411 of 576 🔗

They could well be. I wonder if they really think that people who can work from home aren’t at risk from losing their jobs either. Lots of companies are running on reserves because they’re not selling anything even though they have work to do (software companies being a good example).

29233 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #412 of 576 🔗

They’re dithering because they want the economy totally destroyed.

It’s quite obvious.

29264 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John Smith, 1, #413 of 576 🔗

Funny as its not really in the Conservative Party’s interest to see the economy totally destroyed so what gives?

29279 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #414 of 576 🔗

If they have profited from business interests that have been benefited as a result of this seemingly engineered panic over a mild virus then surely the POCA could be used to take those assets from them.

29180 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 2, #415 of 576 🔗

There’s one of those truisms in life that I was thinking about. It’s the one about “What do you do when a child hands you his toy phone?”

Well you answer it of course. There’s no question about it.

Maybe this Enforced Separation nonsense can be solved by an army of children with toy phones. Or plastic picnic tables.

29188 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to mhcp, 8, #416 of 576 🔗

It is children’s voices which have been sadly lacking in all of this. Why aren’t the NSPCC speaking up on their behalf? A hard hitting campaign with kids saying ‘I stayed in for three months for you’ would have more meaning and carry more weight than the current propoganda put out by Virgin media et al with middle class kids doing homework and dancing about

29203 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #417 of 576 🔗

The charities have been disgracefully silent over this. Apart from domestic violence charities and Action on Addiction who to their credit have been pointing out how lockdown has seen an increase in domestic abuse and drug and alcohol addiction; I’ve noticed that children’s and mental health charities have been silent and not lobbying the government to open schools, end the lockdown and the antisocial distancing. Mental Health Week was shambolic and only paid lip service to this current crisis.

Hence why I have resolved not to donate to these charities when this is all over. Never again.

29218 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #418 of 576 🔗


Comments and complaints department for anyone who is interested.

29261 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #419 of 576 🔗

Thanks. Will write to them and also to Mind and the Samaritans.

29285 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #420 of 576 🔗

the larger charities are populated with the same metropolitan elite lefties that populate the media, BBC, NHS education etc. How often do you see such people being appointed to charities. so dont expect them to do anything differently. I never donate to big charities anyway as they are just money making machines to supply nice cushy jobs and nice new offices and are political . Keep to the smaller charities populated by people who care and where the money actually gets used positively

29288 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 1, #421 of 576 🔗

That’s why any appeal letter that I get through the post or between a magazine is immediately consigned to the recycling bin.

29381 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #422 of 576 🔗

It is no surprise we have seen an increase in domestic abuse and drug and alcohol abuse because the lockdown has put enormous pressure on families. Families until recently couldn’t see friends and family from outside their household, children can’t go to school, many parents can’t go to work and are worried if they will have jobs to go back to.

29185 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 44, #423 of 576 🔗

Some of you may have read my post yesterday about a reply I received to an email I sent to my MP, a junior Government Minister. Deliciously, I discover on Wikipedia that she used to a a professional software engineer and her parents were a GP and a Professor of Physiology! I wonder how much of the guff she wrote she actually believes? Here is my reply

Dear ………….,

I have been a NHS GP for 35 years and also have a degree in Physiological sciences. I note your background as a software engineer.

You say “The irresponsible comparison between coronavirus and seasonal flu has long been proven dangerously inaccurate” but the infection fatality rate (IFR) of Covid-19 has been estimated by leading world authorities such as Professor John Ioannidis of Stanford (based on a review of the literature) to be between 0.1 and 0.3%. It will almost certainly turn out to be much lower as we are now finding that up to 80% of people who contract the virus are asymptomatic. This puts the IFR of Covid in the same ball-park as seasonal flu (0.14%).

I’m afraid I sense the words of Professor Ferguson in your use of “dangerously inaccurate”. This is the former member of SAGE whose model has been shown by professional software engineers (such as your former self!) to be so bug-ridden and inaccurate that you can have identical inputs into the model and get widely differing outputs. Sadly the Cabinet overwhelmingly composed of non-scientists has followed the advice of academic scientists (as far as I can see there are few if any Doctors in current clinical practice on SAGE). So Government policy is based on advice from the Imperial College department of THEORETICAL EPIDEMIOLOGY rather than, say, that of Professor Carl Heneghan the Professor of EVIDENCE BASED MEDICINE at Oxford University.

Then you mention the R value which is another abstract construct. There is no way to calculate this in the real world and again it is based on modelling. To publish estimates of R to the nearest decimal place is frankly absurd and to base public policy on such is equally farcical.

It is quite clear that the epidemic peaked in the UK in March, before the lockdown. That 2 months later our economy is still being strangled and most our children are still not at school is a sad indictment on this Government (who I voted for at the last election). The Prime Minister should admit he was mistaken and end the lockdown now.

Kind regards,

29186 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to DocRC, 5, #424 of 576 🔗

Great letter. Can’t wait to see the reply.

29187 ▶▶ Mark, replying to DocRC, 4, #425 of 576 🔗

Great stuff! Hopefully that will sting a bit.

29191 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, 1, #426 of 576 🔗

If, that is, anyone reads it!

29201 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DocRC, 4, #427 of 576 🔗

Well said. Hope she sees the sting directed at her, if not then this lot is even thicker than a bunch of planks!

29208 ▶▶ 4096, replying to DocRC, #428 of 576 🔗

You are obviously right but just a minor point – sadly the Ioannidis papers have been justifiably trashed by experts in the field e.g.
Natalie Dean is one one the lockdown maniacs and in her interview with Freddie Sayers for unHeard has proven herself not to be a very clever one at that but her arguments in that Twitter thread are valid.

For IFR it is, I think, best to refer to the official CDC estimate which is 0.26%. If I remember correctly this is about x1.3 the IFR of a bad flu (around 0.2) which, of course as I’m sure I don’t need to point out on this site, does not exactly seem like a good enough reason to, for the first time in history, shut down most of the global economy.

By the way, you would expect someone to notice that the CDC itself is effectively saying that this virus not much worse than a bad flu, but nope, onwards with the ‘terrifying’ stories about this vicious, deadly disease!

29210 ▶▶ Julian, replying to DocRC, 3, #429 of 576 🔗

Nice letter. I actually got a reply to my latest, in which I asked her to clarify whether the government had closed schools or not, referring to government lawyers in their answer to Simon Dolan’s legal case:

“Thank you for your email. I am unaware of the quote you refer to. However, I am able to confirm that the Secretary of State for Education, Gavin Williamson on 18 March said “Fighting Coronavirus and protecting the vulnerable and our NHS are the Government’s top priorities right now. That’s why we are asking schools, nurseries and colleges to close – except for vulnerable children and the children of key workers…..I am deeply grateful for the civic spirit and dedication of everyone working in education and I will continue to provide my full support throughout this crisis.”

I believe that this is a consistent message and is also consistent with the fact that the Government has issued Guidance to Schools throughout this crisis and will continue to support and guide schools in effecting a safe opening of schools.”

Funnily enough, everyone I have asked the simple question “did the government close schools” has looked at me as if I were mad, and said “yes, of course”.

29392 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Julian, #430 of 576 🔗

That sounds like something my MP would write, absolute drivel!

29217 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to DocRC, 1, #431 of 576 🔗

Sadly DocRC, belief always trumps evidence

29319 ▶▶ annie, replying to DocRC, 2, #432 of 576 🔗

Congratulations. Brilliant.
But to the irretrievably stupid…

C. S. Lewis once wrote:

‘The worst thing about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed.’

29388 ▶▶ steve, replying to DocRC, #433 of 576 🔗

Great letter but the entire cabinet are “on message” Just about no dissenting no One sticking their head above the trench.
They are either total liars or clinically stupid.

Maybe stupidity is also a symptom of the dreaded Covidebola19
That would explain a lot. 80% of people non symptomatic but have CV would explain why most the population support lockdown

29389 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to DocRC, #434 of 576 🔗


29410 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DocRC, #435 of 576 🔗

Excellent. And Ferguson is not an epidemiologist by the way, he’s a theoretical physicist.

29458 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to DocRC, #436 of 576 🔗

Love your sentence ‘I note your background…’!!! Hard for him to hit back and claim he is more qualified than you!

29193 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 10, #437 of 576 🔗

This is from a colleague in the travel industry:

I would rather stick pins in my eyes.

29205 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, 2, #438 of 576 🔗

Good grief!!

I would rather eat a light bulb thanks.

29212 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #439 of 576 🔗

I’ve got a whole box full of 50 of them – 100 W pearl bulbs 🙂

29260 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Castro, #440 of 576 🔗


29277 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Sarigan, 2, #441 of 576 🔗

I didn’t know there was a travel industry anymore!

29290 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Sarigan, 6, #442 of 576 🔗

Abnormal,an insult to customers and staff.If the company is that worried about safety,is that a fire door propped open with an extinguisher ?.

29306 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Sarigan, 2, #443 of 576 🔗

Those screen do absolutely nothing. If someone sneezes or coughs then the spray will go over, under, or round the side and on to the other person and their desk.

29452 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 1, #444 of 576 🔗

Except no one can travel! They are unlikely to be busy..

29213 Dan Briggs, replying to Dan Briggs, 5, #445 of 576 🔗

Wells City Council have completely lost their minds and put in a one way walking system up and down the High Street. I can barely believe the complete and utter stupidity.


29354 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dan Briggs, 6, #446 of 576 🔗

Same deal in our town. Plus 20 mph speed limits on the roads into the centre; road closures; town ‘ambassadors’ to provide “helpful advice” on social distancing. And, my absolute favourite, actual traffic lights in certain shops (well, the ones that could afford just under £200 to have them installed!).

The people who run the town must have been pretty disappointed yesterday and today as the expected influx didn’t materialise – I wonder why …

29450 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to kh1485, #447 of 576 🔗

Jobs for jobsworths!

29406 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dan Briggs, #448 of 576 🔗

The local precinct has one. With “helpful” security guards standing in the way. Won’t be going back. Sod the high street, online only for me from now on.

29216 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 2, #449 of 576 🔗

In answer to a Written Question about the 2m rule – indoors v outdoors, yesterday, Edward Argar, Minister of State DHSC, said:

“My hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight that this is not simply a binary choice, as there are many other factors that play a part, as other Members have alluded to—be it the length of time that one is in close contact with someone, the distance, and also whether it is inside or outside. Those are exactly the sort of considerations that those conducting the review under Simon Case will be considering.”

So some form of official review appears to be underway…..

29316 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Fiat, #450 of 576 🔗

The review is to report by 4 July.

29320 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #451 of 576 🔗

Just in time for the pubs to find out that they didn’t need to have spent half as much money or put in half as much work after all.

29349 ▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to matt, 1, #452 of 576 🔗

They need to know in order to judge how much beer to make. It`s not an overnight process!

29221 Melangell, replying to Melangell, 1, #453 of 576 🔗

As an avid lockdown sceptic and believer in the negligible amount of deaths caused by the virus I was taken aback by a friend posting this on Facebook showing that coronavirus deaths have overtaken all other kinds of fatalities worldwide. I’m aware that, at least in this country, many deaths recorded as ‘from Covid’ may likely have been from non-Covid reasons (‘with Covid’) but even so, this number seems to refute the claim that the coronavirus is not much worse than seasonal flu. Can anyone with more knowledge than me comments on this? https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2637725/?fbclid=IwAR0EydWiJ92VT6_8XEN1uycVnhxNa7J3mbtshcyWFQBk61nW3zK71v-XZLA

29231 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to Melangell, 3, #454 of 576 🔗

Come off Facebook and close your account.

Problem solved.

29245 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Melangell, 1, #455 of 576 🔗

I saw a rebuttal to this recently and will try and find but basically they have cherry picked causes of death and left off key ones such as cancer etc.

29251 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Sarigan, 1, #457 of 576 🔗

Thank you Offlands – very helpful and I have shared it with my friend who posted it on FB.

29255 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Melangell, #458 of 576 🔗

There’s a better one somewhere that is either a link posted by Toby or somebody posted in the comments. Wish I’d bookmarked it now as it went into more detail.

29257 ▶▶▶ 4096, replying to Sarigan, #459 of 576 🔗

That’s a response to a different visualisation though.

29250 ▶▶ 4096, replying to Melangell, 4, #460 of 576 🔗

Apart from what you already mentioned, one thing I can think of is note that these are only deaths from January until May. Since the global Covid pandemic (despite what some poor terrorised souls in mainstream news outlets want us to believe) is pretty much over Covid deaths will not rise much more while most of the others will. This means the graph will look very different at the end of the year. Also we are not having a particularly bad flu this year.

Finally, the crafty people who made this graph conveniently did not include cancer or cardiovascular diseases which would, to put it mildly, dwarf the covid numbers.

29253 ▶▶▶ 4096, replying to 4096, 1, #461 of 576 🔗

9.6 million people died of cancer in 2018 – WHO

29298 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to 4096, #462 of 576 🔗

Can someone help me with understanding something?

For a different reason (and one I’m still scratching my head on and so may post about later) I was looking at the flu & pneumonia deaths vs Covid deaths up to week 21 of this year as per the ONS weekly numbers.

What is clear is that, at the end of this month, with very few continuing daily coverage deaths, Covid will have killed a few thousand more people in this country than ‘flu this year (let’s ignore the “of vs with” question and accept that the same method of recording is used for the two sets of numbers, since they’re from the same source).

What’s also clear, is that, while those ‘flu death numbers are distributed on a largely flat and declining line, right from the beginning of the year, the Covid deaths have occurred in a much shorter period of time (March – May).

I’m not a medic (nor even, god forbid, an epidemiologist), but I’m struggling to come up with a logical explanation for this that doesn’t involve any one of: 1) ‘Covid 19 is more deadly than ‘flu; 2) SARS-CoV 2 is more infectious than ‘flu 3) vaccination is key to controlling the ‘flu in the vulnerable population during the standard ‘flu season.

I’m not looking to start a row and I don’t think the main argument against lockdown is affected anyway, but it does pull the rug out from under the whole “and anyway, it’s hardly worse than the ‘flu” bit at the end.

Anybody have any thoughts? What am I missing?

29302 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 4, #463 of 576 🔗

This is my take on it all:

  1. It’s worse than flu but appears to be at the level of an unvaccinated flu. Thus if there was an equivalent to the flu vaccine it would likely be on a par with flu.
  2. This appears to be the case as it is infection is more in line with the cold than flu.
  3. This is true.

There is one big caveat. We do not know the impact of lockdowns on the above. It is possible that by locking down the risk of infection and death was increased. Transmission is mainly indoors (people confined at home) and within hospitals and carehomes. According to reports as much as 20% of patients in hospitals contracted it there.

If we had treated this like a regular flu it is possible that the excess death numbers would be in line with a bout of flu. The only way we can really test this theory is by observing countries that have both widespread infection and didn’t lock down.

If their excess deaths are not disimilar to a bout of flu then it would be strong indication that the virus is indeed not much worse than flu and lockdowns only made things worse.

The numbers from Belarus are interesting in that regard but I’ve not seen their excess death numbers as yet.

29401 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, #464 of 576 🔗

This also makes sense n

29332 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to matt, 4, #465 of 576 🔗

I think that it has been the emptying of the hospitals to accommodate the Covid flood that never came that has done it. Old people who were being kept alive suddenly had their treatments stopped at the same moment, and infected patients were sent out into care homes allowing the virus to reap a rich harvest. You only need a relatively small disruption to create a spike, especially after winter. It may look spectacular, but in terms of QALYs it might not be much.

29345 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 5, #466 of 576 🔗

For me the point about it being comparable to flu is really that is in the same broad ballpark in terms of its effect on society and therefore there’s no justification for treating it dramatically differently. So of course it might be a bit worse in some ways, but it still is comparable to flu rather than to something with a really high ifr, or that is very disabling for a large proportion of those who catch it.

The point is not that this year with covid is the same as any other year, but rather that it is broadly comparable with years when we have had bad seasonal flu or other broadly unnoticed epidemics, and the key figures are the ones displayed on these graphs, which I’m sure you’ve seen before, showing that the death total this year is overall basically the same as 1999-2000 (adjusted for population increase):


This inevitably raises the question of whether we have only held deaths down to these numbers by our panic response. That doesn’t seem credible, though, given all the evidence that the epidemic was coming to an end before lockdown, and that results have been pretty similar or better across the world where no lockdown has been in place.

29384 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 2, #467 of 576 🔗

Flu deaths are more spread out probably because there are a few different viruses going around with their effects superimposed on each other. Flu also may not rip through the hospitals and care homes as much because the people who work in those places have at least partial protection from the vaccines.

I think Covid may be more deadly than flu for the elderly and vulnerable but is less deadly for people outside those groups.

In particular I don’t think flu particularly affects those with obesity, diabetes or high blood pressure the way Covid does (possibly because of the way it downregulates ACE2).

Covid mortality l overall may indeed be worse than flu (by about 2x not 10x) but I think the big mistake everyone made was to assume that you could extrapolate from the way it affected the elderly to the way it would affect everyone else.

29399 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 1, #468 of 576 🔗

This makes sense

29390 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #469 of 576 🔗

Coronaviruses, such as colds, are most active before and after winter, such as late autumn and early spring. Flu viruses tend to be active throughout the winter and die off in March/April.

29398 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, #470 of 576 🔗

Doesn’t help in this particular instance, because I was looking at whole year (YTD) data and the numbers for ‘flu declined from around 2,000 a week to around 1,000 a week by late May. I’m assuming 1st Jan is pretty much peak ‘flu season.

29552 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nick Rose, #471 of 576 🔗

Some of the “flu” deaths are actually other coronaviruses anyway– they just look at excess mortality to measure flu, nobody’s doing PCR tests.

29414 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to matt, 1, #472 of 576 🔗

The common cold has always had worse effects than influenza when it gets into care homes. This has been known for some time.


The diagnostics of respiratory viral infections has improved markedly during the last 15 years with the development of PCR techniques.Since 1997, several new respiratory viruses and their subgroups have been discovered

The new viruses cause respiratory symptoms like the common cold, cough, bronchitis, bronchiolitis, exacerbations of asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and pneumonia. Acute respiratory failure may occur.’

‘The classical predisposing factors to viral infections include advanced age, chronic illnesses and poor immune responses. The elderly often have partial immunity and chronic illnesses; these circumstances modify their responses to viruses and thus respiratory viral infections may manifest themselves as atypical symptoms or as exacerbation of chronic illnesses. Serious outbreaks have been reported in long-term care facilities.’

‘Infection by SARS-CoV was almost exclusively symptomatic resembling influenza with initial symptoms of fever, myalgia, malaise and chills or rigor [ 49 ]. Cough was common, but dyspnea was prominent only later in the course of the illness. Death was usually due to respiratory failure or a sepsis-related syndrome. Advanced age and co-morbidities increased markedly the risk of severe illness’

‘Preventive measures are also important, such as vaccinations, hand-washing and isolation of the affected individuals in hospitals and long-term care facilities.The ultimate clinical significance of the new respiratory viruses is still poorly unknown in the elderly population but probably these infections are greatly underestimated.’



Unexpectedly Higher Morbidity and Mortality of Hospitalized Elderly Patients Associated with Rhinovirus Compared with Influenza Virus Respiratory Tract Infection’

So the covid 19 spikes, best illustrated by Sweden, are caused by the virus getting into care homes. Any number of different known viruses would have had the same effect. Some, probably a great deal, of this mortality was caused by discharging the elderly and infirm, some of them infected with covid 19, from hospital back into care homes in order to clear beds for covid 19 patients who never turned up; plus lax death registration procedures have massively overcounted covid 19 deaths. Italy revised their covid 19 figures down to 12% of the original total.

29436 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 2, #473 of 576 🔗

Didn’t someone do a graph moving the Covid curve back a few months in time and placing over the ‘usual’ flu curve, and they looked the same? Point being that Covid occurred later in the year than ‘ordinary’ flu usually appears and so it looked like a worse spike..

29593 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to matt, #474 of 576 🔗

What you’re missing is: what is the real agenda behind this. I don’t know what exactly it is but I know ‘they’ see the same figures as we do. So all this, lockdowns, facemasks, antisocial distancing, destruction of education, is to keep a virus no more dangerous than the flu at bay? I don’t think so.

29375 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to 4096, #475 of 576 🔗

Putting it very mildly, lol.

29254 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Melangell, 4, #476 of 576 🔗

Preposterous. The total deaths in that graphic shows around 1.7M, whereas actually more than 26M people have died so far this year. Covid-19 represents around 1.5% of total mortality for 2020, and as we know a lot of those people would sadly have died anyway this year.

29259 ▶▶▶ 4096, replying to Julian, #477 of 576 🔗


29304 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Julian, 3, #478 of 576 🔗

Also, the vast majority didn’t die of COVID-19, they died with COVID-19. 90.4% had more than 2 other illnesses listed on their deaths certificates which they died of.

29307 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to daveyp, 1, #479 of 576 🔗

Yes, you’d really need to look at whether there has been a spike of mortality globally so far this year compared to the average of previous years. There probably has, but I suspect people imagine that covid-19 has been a huge contributor to death globally, or has increased it to unprecented levels, and I doubt this is the case.

29442 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to daveyp, #480 of 576 🔗

Yes, isn’t it true that the number of UK deaths where Covid 19 is the only cause of death named on the death certificate is about 1350?

29256 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Melangell, 1, #481 of 576 🔗

Those are worldometer numbers: roughly 345,000 deaths so far from covid 19

Worldometer for influenza annually? Every year an estimated 290,000 to 650,000 people die in the world due to complications from seasonal influenza (flu) viruses.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdUOA?Si ,

How confident are we in cause of deaths recorded generally, given that Italy recently revised covid 19 fatalities and came up with 12% of the original figure? Has the worldometer figure been revised accordingly?

Add in that there is no internationally recognized standard for death registration and what does that give you?

A complete load of old nonsense.

In short, I agree with Mr Smith above.

29278 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tim Bidie, #482 of 576 🔗

I wonder how that figure compare to global all cause excess mortality for the same period. I don’t know where to find such a figure.

29325 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Saved To Death, #483 of 576 🔗

Not easily done outside OECD and even within OECD there is no standard for death registration process so the numbers are unlikely to be comparable.

Here are some references:




The euromomo z scores seem illuminating because the big spikes seem to coincide with countries that were not good at keeping covid 19 out of care homes, particularly Britain, but someone who knows what they are talking about would have to check that.

I believe relatives of some of those that died before their time in British care homes are bringing a case against the government in due course, because of this:


The effects of the common cold within care homes are more deadly than influenza, known about for years!


29321 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Tim Bidie, #484 of 576 🔗

Also, we closing in on 20,000 excess non COVID-19 deaths during lockdown now in the UK. Imagine how many excess non COVID-19 deaths there have been worldwide up to now.

29330 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to daveyp, #485 of 576 🔗

This is only a select few places and slight lag in data but the non virus excess deaths (109k) work out at about 25% of registered worldwide deaths from COVID-19.


29328 ▶▶ Anon, replying to Melangell, 2, #486 of 576 🔗

The excess deaths are there to see, I don’t think it’s fair to call them negligible. There are certain segments of the population (basically the very old and the sick, most often a combination of both) to which Covid is extremely dangerous. To the rest of the population, nowhere near as much.

29351 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Melangell, #487 of 576 🔗

The link doesn’t work but the assertion is preposterous. A five second search produces this https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/world-rankings-total-deaths You will see that cu 26 conditions in 2017 which would currently top the numbers of fatalities from Covid 19. Influenza and pneumonia come fourth with nearly six times the current count for Covid. And that was a five second search and a two minute analysis. (Note RTAs and suicides included in that table.)

29387 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Melangell, 3, #488 of 576 🔗

A little look at my fave website for numbers will lay this to rest:

Just this year, worldwide, there have been
3 773 000 deaths from cancer
772 300 from AIDS
620 000 fatal road traffic accidents
492 600 suicides
450 600 have died from malaria
223 800 from season flu

and 441 229 from (or with) covid 19

29447 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #489 of 576 🔗

So more have died from malaria than CV19, and getting on for twice as many have died of AIDS… When did we shut down because of outbreaks of those?

29222 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 36, #490 of 576 🔗

Was at the garage (a big dealership chain) this morning collecting the car from it’s MOT and asked the staff what they thought of the totally useless sneeze guards the company has installed on then desks.

All looked sheepish.

Got chatting and they all knew the screens were useless but the management think “they will reassure customers that we are taking their safety with the virus seriously”.

I said it didn’t and I was getting pissed off being treated like a medieval leper and not a customer and to pass that onto senior management. Every other customer in there agreed with me.

I told them I thought it was all bullshit and a contrived scam to destroy the country, quoted facts, figures etc and gave them a direction to start their own researches as not 1 member of staff during their furlough and done any checking or researching themselves but just sat and took in everything the MSM and Government had spouted on the TV and internet hook, line and sinker.

When leaving the big boss came across (known him for years) and said that the customer’s comments had got to him really quickly and would be passed on to the big boys at the top and that he was going to look at Simon Dolan’s case etc and get some research done to pass on up the ladder.

Then in the supermarket got some people doubting the use of facemarks – handy that picture from the back of a box saying “does not protect from covid-19”.

Also tried to get the overprotective helicopter educated middle class well to do mums (is that what they call yummy mummies on the internet? never been too sure) with their kids in gloves, masks, keeping distances, scared to breath or look at people to unwind a bit by telling them the masks may harm their kids long-term, will make them more susceptible to illnesses and that they are 8 times more likely to be struck by lightning than die of covid-19 and so on. Not too sure how successful that was though.

Another successful day getting the word out and getting people to think for themselves just a little bit.

29244 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #491 of 576 🔗

Well done, good job

29252 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #492 of 576 🔗

i am concerned that my honed T-cells/cellular immunity/dark matter immune system may loose its edge if i am not sneezed on every so often

29258 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #493 of 576 🔗

Great stuff. The more we spread the Gospel of Lockdown Scepticism hopefully the more we convince people to start thinking for themselves.

29267 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #494 of 576 🔗

Looks like you may have got the truth R value above 1 for today in your area! Lets hope you’ve also infected a super spreader or two.

29269 ▶▶ Bob, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #495 of 576 🔗

Fantastic effort! It feels like Lockdown Skeptics website business cards might be useful. Let’s make this campaign (ironically) viral!

29315 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Awkward Git, #496 of 576 🔗

How come you were MOT’ing the car as you have a 6 month extension?

29327 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to daveyp, #497 of 576 🔗

Don’t have an exemption, it’s due and of this month.

29355 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Awkward Git, #498 of 576 🔗

I thought any MOT due from the 30th March was exempted?

29396 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to daveyp, #499 of 576 🔗

I thought so as well but I tried to tax the car as received the reminder, tried online and it refused, said I could not get the tax without a new MOT.

29597 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #500 of 576 🔗

The MOT exemption doesn’t kick on until 7 days before the MOT expires. So, if it expires on the 30th June you should’ve been able to Tax it after the 23rd.

29317 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #501 of 576 🔗

That’s the way to do it.
I always try to chat with shop people and ask them whether they find the bullshit convincing. Most don’t.
Keep on hsmmering on it, my heroes.
And I’m keeping a supply of the ‘dangers of masks’ warning to give out to the muzzled. A little light rending. ( No typo.)

29432 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #502 of 576 🔗

With regard to the screens, as that guy whose videos on shopping were posted earlier here says, who in their right mind ever sneezes or coughs directly in people’s faces anyway??? People generally turn away when they sneeze, or sneeze into their elbow or whatever – it is just polite..

29228 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 23, #503 of 576 🔗

ONS data 12th June
Approx 33,000 people which is 0.06% of the population, have this virus lurgy.
80% are considered asymptomatic and unlikely to pass it on.
That leaves a mere approx. 6,600 “spreaders” in the whole of the U.K.

Now the Telegraph announce a drug that is apparently saving lives, which is good.


So remind me again, why the HELL are we carrying on with this lockdown and quarantine charade?

29243 ▶▶ Mark, replying to CarrieAH, 16, #504 of 576 🔗

Yet another opportunity for the government to miss, to just drop the whole thing immediately and launch a “back to normal” propaganda barrage comparable with the one they used to scare everyone in the first place (though without the willing establishment media accomplices).

They certainly would do that if they properly grasped the scale of the economic damage they have inflicted and if as politicians they priorised business competitiveness, education, and traditional liberties and cultural treasures.

All things a conservative party would prioritise, one would think.

Ergo, this “Conservative” Party is not conservative. QED.

29246 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Mark, 7, #505 of 576 🔗

It hasn’t really been conservative for a very long time

29364 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 2, #506 of 576 🔗

If May’s GDP shows a further fall in double digits, it should get things shifting.

29249 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to CarrieAH, 9, #507 of 576 🔗

Maybe we need to lockdown and quarantine the MSM for a month – without the fear virus we might return to normal ‘organically’

29265 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Major Panic, 7, #508 of 576 🔗

Can we add the government and all their so called experts into this lockdown/quarantine? Then we can all get on with living.

29276 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to ambwozere, 5, #509 of 576 🔗

After we have marched them to parliament to repeal the coronavirus act.

29284 ▶▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #510 of 576 🔗

Ah yes excellent point.

29273 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Sarigan, 1, #512 of 576 🔗

Plandemic Diary

16th June- release Press Release saying a cheap, widely available steroid, say, dexamethasone, has been identified as a cure for the Chinese Killer Virus.

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

29361 ▶▶ Bumble, replying to Sarigan, 1, #513 of 576 🔗

Italians reported this a few weeks ago. They noticed that no Rheumatoid Arthritis patients had been in ICU. RA patients take steroids to suppress the disease. Interstingly, my neighbour is shielding because he takes steroids for polymyalgia. I did tell him about the Italian observation but he is convinced he will die if he goes anywhere.

29374 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Bumble, 2, #514 of 576 🔗

Do you have a link to the report? It’s not such a ground breaking British revelation then is it?

29395 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, 1, #515 of 576 🔗

BBC making a big thing of this tonight in their summary of the govt briefing

Maybe could be a bit of a fig leaf for them?

29408 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, 2, #516 of 576 🔗

So it improves your chances if you have covid-19 and are on a ventilator.

But wasn’t being put on a ventilator deemed to be the wrong treatment for covid-19 patients a couple of months ago?

If I remember correctly ventilation increased the death rates, treating the patient as if it was oxygen starvation like mountaineers get was the correct treatment.

Being jaded and cynical it seems like they can now say “we have a treatment, stop social distancing etc” as the masses cannot remember yesterday let alone technical medical discourses from months ago.

29683 ▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Awkward Git, #517 of 576 🔗

That’s what I also thought: but weren’t ventilators bad/wrong? Then intuitively I thought “the combination can’t be helping either”. But who knows, in this new normal anything seems to go… Perhaps the suggestion of Julian (one comment up) could be the explanation: the British government is now so desperate to get out of their incompetent policy any excuse will do.

29268 daveyp, replying to daveyp, 8, #518 of 576 🔗

Looking at the ONS stats for Week 23, in total there is 600 more deaths than in the same week in 2019.

The number of people dying at at home is 3,418 of which only 77 deaths to COVID-19, but this number of non-covid19 deaths is 1000-2000 deaths higher than other years. So with very few deaths now outside of socomial institutions it can be seen that for week 23 the lockdown itself is now a bigger killer than COVID-19.

29270 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to daveyp, 1, #519 of 576 🔗

The average deaths at home for week 23 between 2015-2019 is 2,204, so with the 77 COVID-19 deaths removed we are looking at 1,137 home deaths more than the average.

29292 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 22, #521 of 576 🔗

Anyone know a premier league footballer who can tweet “Scrap the 2m rule”? Should be gone within hours.

29318 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to arfurmo, 4, #522 of 576 🔗

Marcus Rashford is doing the briefing today. Boris is playing upfront for Man Utd at the weekend.

29331 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hubes, 3, #523 of 576 🔗

Be a big improvement. The briefing and the footie. 🙂

29363 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Hubes, 1, #524 of 576 🔗

Probably feeling guilty for the number of OAP’s he’s killed with his off target free kicks!

29305 WillemKoppenhol, 10, #525 of 576 🔗

Is our (Western) corona response institutionally racist?

Personally I never bought into identity politics and I strongly dislike a term such as “institutional racism”. But thinking about the lock-downs in our Western societies the other day I all of a sudden realized that for the first time I could make the point in favour of the existence of a form of institutional racism right now in our societies.

I don’t know if anyone else has already made this point, but here it goes: for decades many ordinary citizens of many Third World countries (or whatever term you’d prefer for such countries) have died in their tens of millions because of “normal” diseases. With “normal” I mean diseases that we hear a lot about, but which we usually don’t have any more in our own European/North American societies.

Diseases such as malaria or TB, which when you combine their death rates still kill millions every year. They are the “far from our own beds show” as we say in Dutch, far away so why should we care? And even if we did care for some diseases (HIV/AIDS comes to mind) at one time, we have pretty much forgotten about those over time when it all turned out to be relatively okay. Okay for us, that is.

For years we spend what amounted to relatively a pittance (the totals may have added up over the years, but divided by potential patients or deaths it really wasn’t that much!) as long as we were talking about diseases in countries with, let’s be honest, almost exclusively non-white inhabitants. Africa, Asia, Latin-America, all pretty much non-white continents.

Then the corona virus came along. The moment we realized a number of white grandparents were about to die, we decided to spent a LOT of money. All of a sudden many people in our societies, both the politicians and the civil-servants but also many ordinary people, panicked and we went in all sorts of lock-downs.

All of a sudden it didn’t matter how much it was going to cost. In the Netherlands we have already spent tens of billions and the bill will go up considerably, probably going past 100 billion EUR by the end of this year. The moment (mainly) white people were going to die, we decided to act and spend a LOT of money on “us”, our white elderly people.

The decision makers and the media presenters and journalists, who also happen to be mostly white people, all of a sudden wanted to spend endless amounts of money on trying to save a few of those white elderly people. (Yes, a number of BAME people also died, but that realization came weeks after the lock-downs, so that doesn’t help us, bunch of racists, here.) And they went berserk if you tried to challenge them on these lock-downs. A sort of “how dare you kill our (white) grandparents with your scepticism?!” Well, they never said white, but that is what it is: white grandparents!

So here then is my realization: in one particular case institutional racism actually does seem to exist. We spent a ridiculous amount on trying to save a number of white elderly people, which we never ever did before at anything like this amount of money when all those millions of non-white people needed our help, while at the same time destroying the livelihood of potentially hundreds of millions of non-white people in the rest of the world for years to come!

You could even “frame” it in the usual hyperbolics of the activists in academia: white neo-liberal capitalist (etc etc) Western governments creating a near-genocidal policy, with black people as collateral damage, only to create a virus-free Lebensraum for white elderly (and privileged!) people.

But all hyperbolics aside, tragically enough given all that future collateral damage in the Third World you could actually make that case, the case that the lock-downs are unintentionally but effectively by far the most racist governmental decisions since 1945. Now why don’t I hear the BBC, The Guardian and Imperial College of London about that racist scandal?! This one should be very easy to statistically model, don’t you think…?

(Oh, I also just realized that this is also easily the most “ageist” policy ever. But I’ll leave that one for another day.)

29308 Rachael, 1, #526 of 576 🔗

A great comment I saw on YouTube:

This coronavirus is the strangest virus I’ve ever heard of. It’s very dangerous the way it spreads. It is so mysterious the way it lurks in schools, but then dies at B&Q. It is sneaky. It can spread when buying clothes at M&S but not at Tesco. It is non-alcoholic. It can’t spread when you are buying beer. It lives for two days on Amazon boxes, you must wait 48 hours to touch them but It can’t survive on takeaway coffee cups, so enjoying a hot cup of costa is safe. It is the most curious thing, how it lives on footballs, ballet bars, even loo seats but dies on WWE ropes. It is spread by hair stylists, dog groomers, and dentists, but not by bank tellers, cashiers, and fast food workers. It’s so smart. It won’t bother the first 10 people but it knows when the 11th person shows up so be careful if that’s you. It even knows what you want vs what you need. If you want a massage or your nails done it is very actively on the prowl and not even a mask can stop it but If you need a plumber, it is weak, and a mask will keep it away. It also seems to be most dangerous after 5:30pm so businesses must start to close before the virus comes out and wreaks havoc upon the populations. Whoever heard of such a smart sneaky virus?!?

29334 matt, replying to matt, 1, #527 of 576 🔗

Johnson sounding very upbeat – even almost dynamic. Haven’t heard that in a long time.

29338 ▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 2, #528 of 576 🔗

Spoke too soon.

29342 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 1, #529 of 576 🔗

Yes, only taken 6 minutes to get back to the ‘we might ease the lockdown…. well eventually, perhaps next year, or even the year after’!

29359 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #530 of 576 🔗

I think we’re getting close to mass civil disobedience against the lockdown.

29365 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #531 of 576 🔗

It’d be nice to think so but protest energies seem to be going into pro- and anti- BLM gatherings instead. Whatever side of that fence you’re on you’d think that you’d want to, you know, restore human existence to normality, before resuming arguing the toss, important as those issues are.

29380 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nick Rose, #532 of 576 🔗

I’m ignoring it.

29429 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #533 of 576 🔗

..hence the new law banning protests and gatherings of over 6 people…

29378 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to matt, #534 of 576 🔗

Probably given some uppers to help him sound upbeat as he has depressed the hell out of the country and the suicide rate is rising!

29393 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #535 of 576 🔗

I have been getting the impression that killing us off is the intention after all driving people to suicide is one of Prof Furgesons specialities as some former farmers might tell if they were still with us.

29337 Edgar Friendly, 1, #536 of 576 🔗

But surely the question on everybody’s lips (if we could see them through the masks) is… did Toby wear a muzzle on his sojourn across London, or did he travel wild and free?

29340 Lou, replying to Lou, 4, #537 of 576 🔗

Thought it would be interesting to share today’s experience of going to the dentist…wasn’t great in any aspect. Arrived for appointment was instructed to sanitise my hands and had to put mask on (cost me an extra £7 for PPE – just one of many extra charges that is to come) was instructed to sit in a specific chair where my temperature was then took. Silly screens all on the reception. I wouldn’t have bothered to be honest but I’m currently in the middle of some cosmetic dentistry and cannot stop at this point! Honestly felt humiliating and degrading.

29376 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Lou, 1, #538 of 576 🔗

Why should you wear a mask it’s your mouth he’s looking in!

29428 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lou, #539 of 576 🔗

£7 for PPE???? How much profit are they making on that I wonder?

29341 Nobody2020, #540 of 576 🔗

California Gym Reopens After Building Workout Pods For Members

Oh my. There’s also a picture of a woman in a full plastic bodysuit going to Primark. No shame.

29343 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #541 of 576 🔗

Scotland’s unemployment rate highest in UK

29344 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #542 of 576 🔗

Coronavirus: Sturgeon warns against ‘reckless’ easing of lockdown

“Nicola Sturgeon has warned against any “reckless” move to ease lockdown in Scotland despite a growing “economic crisis” and rising unemployment.”

29358 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #543 of 576 🔗

The SNP seem determined to destroy the private sector in Scotland. Perhaps their intention is to create a client state where everyone is dependent on Government handouts and will vote accordingly.

I’m embarrassed when the FM or one of her Ministers appear on TV in case someone from the rest of the U.K. is watching.

29360 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to DJ Dod, 3, #544 of 576 🔗

Well, it’s not like the rest of us have anyone better…

29362 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #545 of 576 🔗

Who actually gives a flying fck what she thinks

29346 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #546 of 576 🔗

Boris has been totally captured by the vaccine lobby. It is now fully funded and integrated into our Foreign & Commonwealth Office after today’s departmental merger.

29383 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #547 of 576 🔗

That is shocking

29402 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #548 of 576 🔗

No surprise as he wrote this about too many people and the need for population control in 2007:


29426 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #549 of 576 🔗

Knew about the merger – where does the vaccine lobby fit into that please?

29353 daveyp, replying to daveyp, 9, #550 of 576 🔗

Sky News with another ridiculous story “ Flushing the loo can create a cloud of virus particles which the next user might inhale, warns study “.

I’m waiting for Boris Johnson to put the “I’d give it 5 minutes” law in to place to stop this happening.

29357 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to daveyp, 3, #551 of 576 🔗

This disgusting mob will have us crapping outside next.

29366 ▶▶ matt, replying to daveyp, 9, #552 of 576 🔗

“Flushing the loo can create a cloud of virus particles which the next user might inhale, warns study“.

Er… yes. That’s why you don’t keep your toothbrush next to the loo.

In other news:

“germs are everywhere” warn scientists

29372 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to matt, 3, #553 of 576 🔗

Gosh germs are all around us. Who knew?

29373 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #554 of 576 🔗

I know! Imagine the stupidity of not wearing a mask now you know that!

29370 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to daveyp, 2, #555 of 576 🔗

This ridiculous story is old news. The fact they are recirculating this rubbish means they are desperate to maintain the lies.

29379 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to daveyp, #556 of 576 🔗

The familiar ‘fecal plume’, close the lid!

29403 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #557 of 576 🔗

If you can smell it your already wading through it. Keep it quite though we don’t need to trigger the great poo panic right now.

29413 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to daveyp, #558 of 576 🔗

This is why I shit in a shoebox

29497 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to daveyp, #559 of 576 🔗

I can hear the sound of Sky scrapping the bottom of the barrel

29371 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 19, #560 of 576 🔗

Boris is still insistent that he’s saved thousands of lives! Somebody please throw a bucket of cold water over him so he comes to his senses!! Oh please, please stop this charade I can’t take it anymore!

29385 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Moomin, 5, #561 of 576 🔗

I think only a very long prison sentence and loss of any assets gained through this madness can bring him to his senses and even then I would not be optimistic.

29498 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Saved To Death, #562 of 576 🔗

Prison is too good for him. I think he should be taken to Parliament Square and shot!

29425 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Moomin, #563 of 576 🔗

I’m becoming ever more convinced that he was brainwashed while in hospital….or maybe Bill Gates paid him a visit while he was there..

29753 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Moomin, #564 of 576 🔗

He will continue saying that. Politicians do that as many people will believe him. Smoke and mirrors

29409 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #565 of 576 🔗

Well thats surprising, a cheap low profit drug has been found to help treat covid19 – that should shut up some of the critics….

Until the new super expensive drug is proven, when used in conjunction with the cheap drug, to save even more lives…

If this happens then saving lives is great…. But I have no trust anymore….

Why am I such a sceptic? Is this treatable?

29411 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #566 of 576 🔗

wow, jusy after i posted sky news starts discussing the possibility of combination of drugs, research continues…..

29412 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Major Panic, #567 of 576 🔗

They talked about it specifically in the press briefing. Please don’t think that Sky are using their own initiative

29416 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to matt, #568 of 576 🔗

i didnt realise anybody watched them

29418 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Major Panic, #569 of 576 🔗

I can’t help it. I’ve tried.

29415 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #570 of 576 🔗

I have just found this: ‘ Social Distancing – the evidence ‘. Zoe Harcombe (not a virologist but a PhD in Public Health Nutritition) does a good line in picking the bones out of trials, models and epidemiological studies She’s mostly about low carb die/ eat real food advice but I she is good at de-bunking Big Food and Big Pharma. Here are some of highlights from the executive summary:

* The Lancet published a paper on June 1st which examined physical distancing for coronaviruses (along with masks and eye protection). The paper claimed that there was approximately a 1.3% chance of contracting a virus when 2 metres from an infected person, but halving this gap raised the risk to only 2.6%.

* It is important to note that no randomised controlled trials on spatial separation of at least one meter have ever been undertaken. [ ]

* The Lancet paper contained nine studies relevant to social distancing among the general public (once studies with high-protection surgical masks and/or in healthcare settings had been removed). [ ]. None of them examined social distancing, as we are being told to do today.

* I n every one of these studies, the major, or only, risk factor was being in intimate contact with an infected person – being a spouse, being the carer for that person, embracing that person, sharing a bedroom with that person and so on.

* The Lancet paper has assumed that these household studies have provided evidence that people 0-1 meters away from an infected person have a greater risk of catching a coronavirus than someone more than 0-1 meters away. What these household studies really found was that the spouse/lover/carer had a greater risk than an extended family member (not in the same household), or a co-worker, or a random person in a waiting room.

* Politicians say that they are following the science. There is no science on social distancing; not as it pertains to what they are instructing us to do.

29419 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #571 of 576 🔗

Her article on mask-wearing is less helpful to us muzzle-refuseniks. . . . Well, you can’t win ’em all. (Also, she’s talking about when CV19 contagion was a real risk, not now.)

29422 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #572 of 576 🔗

Here’s the link to the social-distancing article. The above link is duff – sorry:


29751 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #573 of 576 🔗

MiriamW, the link did not work. Try this one, fingers crossed. https://www.zoeharcombe.com/2020/06/social-distancing-the-evidence/

Zoe Harcombe is excellent at reviewing papers and science.

29752 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, #574 of 576 🔗

Sorry, did not see you republished the link

29417 Melangell, 4, #575 of 576 🔗

I was walking on the coast past my favourite (closed) beach cafe yesterday, when I remembered how hard the owner works – well, overworks, really – all spring and summer long to earn as much as she can from April to October. Since this is Wales where lockdown goes on interminably, despite my county of Ceredigion having only a handful of deaths since March, she and hundreds of similar businesses that rely on “the season” for their annual income will never be able to recoup their losses their year. I felt a terrible chill go through me as I realised that all these hardworking people will be facing a winter with zero income.

29431 Bella, 1, #576 of 576 🔗

I read somewhere that nightclubs can open in Spain but you’re not allowed to dance. If true then it looks like The Taliban have finally made inroads in Europe.


109 users made 571 comments today.

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