2020-06-16

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/06/16/latest-news-57/
Published2020-06-16T17:57:50
Last updated2020-06-16T22:10:06
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:03
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29421 HawkAnalyst, 1, #2 of 716 🔗
29423 HawkAnalyst, #3 of 716 🔗

Jobs figures look strong until you scratch the surface by Philip Aldrick Economics Editor

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/jobs-figures-look-strong-until-you-scratch-the-surface-xqflx208c

29424 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 7, #4 of 716 🔗

Wales is truly a shambles with us restricted to local travel which the guidance says is 5 miles. Anyway tomorrow I am making a break for the UK to spend time with my sons and Grandson in England.

The police in Wales have indeed been acting as if it is a police state and the Welsh Government have been tightening the legislation as time has gone by.

Interestingly I believe that there is nothing to stop someone from England travelling to Wales for a day trip (despite the Welsh police turning back a 1000 vehicles from England a few weekends ago). I’d be interested in any legal views on this but:

The legislation, here, restricting travel etc. is The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) Regulations 2020

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2020/353/contents

Section 1 (2) says “These Regulations apply in relation to Wales”

Section 8 (1) restricts travel ” During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.”

Thus, I would contend, that anyone visiting Wales from England cannot have their travel restricted as they do not live in Wales for this section to apply. i.e. The Act does not restrict travel per se in Wales, it just restricts people leaving the ‘place where they are living’. If the do not have a home here in Wales it cannot therefore apply.

Thoughts anyone?

29427 ▶▶ matt, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #5 of 716 🔗

How is the famous “5 miles” restriction codified in law, if at all?

29439 ▶▶ annie, replying to Schrodinger, 14, #6 of 716 🔗

‘Five miles’ us a slightly flexible term for some people where I come from ( won’t specify in case the Gestapo are listening), but to anybody running a business it’s.ruination, because the Gestapo really will be after them if they don’t conform. And all ‘tourist’ activities, i.e. practically all activities hereabouts, count as ‘unnecessary travel’.

My town already looks like a ghost town, and if Stalin Drakeford has his way, it will become one and stay one fir the foreseeable future. Ruined hopes, ruined lives.

29456 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to annie, 1, #7 of 716 🔗

Toby put up the website for a Welsh sceptics site sometime ago but I can’t find it. Did anyone bookmark it, please?

29514 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to annie, 9, #9 of 716 🔗

Unlike London which gets year round tourist trade the tourist industry in Wales is dependent on the summer trade. If tourist dependent businesses miss the summer trade, I don’t see how businesses can be viable. All Shops in England can open but here in Wales we can’t.

29556 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ianric, 16, #10 of 716 🔗

All our tourist businesses in West Wales depend utterly in the summer season. With the winderful weather, this year ought to have been a bonanza.
Instead: Drakeford’s apocalypse.
I could strangle him with my own hands. I could really.

29615 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to annie, 5, #11 of 716 🔗

If large numbers of hotels, B & Bs and campsites go bust, this will permanently kill off our tourist trade because who will want to come and visit wales or anywhere else in the uk if there is nowhere to stay. Remaining hotels can charge higher if they have less competition.

29634 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to ianric, 4, #12 of 716 🔗

They can charge higher but who will stay in them?

29708 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #13 of 716 🔗

Indeed because people won’t just bother going.

29668 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tony Prince, replying to annie, 6, #14 of 716 🔗

The people of Wales must NEVER forget

29947 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, 5, #15 of 716 🔗

I feel deep concern on behalf of all the local owners of cafes, hotels, BandBs and other holiday lets, and tourist attractions here where I live in West Wales. They work themselves to the bone all summer to make enough money during the “season” to keep body and soul together from October to April. I tremble to think how they are going to survive the next one with no summer income in sight as this absurd, irrational lockdown drags on and on.

29483 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #16 of 716 🔗

The Irish legislation was held to not cover those who live in Northern Ireland on similar words as their place they were living was not in the Republic of Ireland. This resulted in NI residents having full freedom of movement in the Republic.

29524 ▶▶ Emma, replying to Schrodinger, 12, #17 of 716 🔗

I happened to stray over the border into Wales a couple of weeks ago. I live in Hereford and drove to Llanthony Priory to walk through the empty valley and up onto the hills. But I was accosted by the young female farmer and her familiar. I was asked if I was ‘local’, and given a really hard time. They were furious that I might have touched a gate etc. Although they couldn’t quote the legislation, I too was unsure if it was actually legislation or just ‘guidance’, this has been the source of much confusion I think. Anyway I did leave, but vowed never to buy Welsh lamb again. It doesn’t encourage you to think of Wales as a holiday destination.

29635 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Emma, 2, #18 of 716 🔗

There are thick people everywhere, Emma. We received a FPN from Sussex plod a few weeks ago. I’ll probably keep drinking Harveys though …

29784 ▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Emma, 5, #19 of 716 🔗

Such a bad advert for Wales. Disaster. They are really doing themselves no favours.

30059 ▶▶▶▶ Stephen Lord, replying to Shep, 2, #20 of 716 🔗

It’s not just Wales, Cornwall has a dreadful attitude. Lake District too. I was thinking of escaping to Ireland but a friend there said in the smaller remote places, we wouldn’t be welcome.

29793 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Schrodinger, 5, #21 of 716 🔗

Long time since I did my law degree but I would hazard that your assessment is probably correct Schrodinger .

I’m lucky to live within 7 miles of the English border, so we take that as being local and are merrily hopping across the border whenever we feel like it. I think a lot of people are just doing what they like now – feels like it on the roads and seeing people out and about, there doesn’t seem to be much social distancing going on. Apparently both Severn Bridges were very busy on Monday with the English shops opening. Good on all those Welsh folk eager to start shopping. Whether Dragfeet likes it or not people have decided that lockdown is over. He seems paralysed with fear and unable to lead or make any sort of decision. Hopefully his days are number – Welsh elections next year and Labour will not be getting my vote.

30065 ▶▶ Annabel Andrew, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #22 of 716 🔗

If enough of you just get out there and defy them, what are they going to do- arrest you all?

30178 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Schrodinger, #23 of 716 🔗

It would seem that the more “progressive” the local government, the stricter the lockdown.

30342 ▶▶ Emma, replying to Schrodinger, #24 of 716 🔗

I just sent this to Drakeford and took the liberty of using some of your text, hope you don’t mind:
Dear Mr Drakeford,

I am writing to seek clarification on the law regarding travel into Wales from England.

The legislation, here, restricting travel etc. is The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) Regulations 2020

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/wsi/2020/353/contents

Section 1 (2) says “These Regulations apply in relation to Wales”

Section 8 (1) restricts travel ” During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.”

Thus, I would contend, that anyone visiting Wales from England cannot have their travel restricted as they do not live in Wales for this section to apply. i.e. the Act does not restrict travel per se in Wales, it just restricts people leaving the ‘place where they are living’. If they do not have a home in Wales it cannot therefore apply. Please can you inform me as soon as possible if I have understood this correctly. I intend to visit Hay on Wye this week-end, as I do frequently under normal circumstances, contributing to the Welsh economy.

Unless you intend to ruin the tourism industry for Wales, which has a short enough season, I urge you to abandon the extreme restrictions and really damaging social distancing measures currently in place.

29430 South Coast Worker, replying to South Coast Worker, 14, #25 of 716 🔗

Putting a patient on a ventilator is near enough a death sentence. Why are they still doing it at all? Trying to make that poor practice less deadly seems like backwards thinking to me. Preventative measures like HCQ would surely be more appropriate.

29645 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to South Coast Worker, -3, #26 of 716 🔗

Well the same trial showed HCQ had no effect. The data show that the most severe patients benefit most from steroid treatment. And not putting them on a ventilator? There is little data on that course if care in those so sick that there are no options left.

29657 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to djaustin, #27 of 716 🔗

The guy heading up the dexamethasone study was clear in not ruling out positive effects of HCQ for patients with mild symptoms or as a preventative drug.

I

29433 IanE, replying to IanE, 44, #28 of 716 🔗

Ye gods, today has been truly awful – idiots in supermarkets seem to be doubling in number every week: I nearly lost my rag today. Yet we see that EVEN William Hague has finally twigged what has happened. Just what sort of asinine f**kwit does one have to be to still support this insane lockdown – and how come the government is still behind it? Hmm, I guess the first part of my last sentence answers the second part!

29526 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to IanE, 9, #29 of 716 🔗

“Just what sort of asinine f**kwit does one have to be to still support this insane lockdown”
I hope this is a rhetorical question otherwise it’s going to be an awfully long list……

29558 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to T. Prince, 6, #30 of 716 🔗

Just reading this thread and laughing makes me feel SOOOO much better – thanks both

29672 ▶▶▶▶ Tony Prince, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #31 of 716 🔗

You’re welcome! Come back tomorrow and the day after….it’s certainly kept me sane over recent weeks. !

30041 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to T. Prince, #32 of 716 🔗

Start off with those who are against the lockdown, less writers cramp!

29669 ▶▶ steve, replying to IanE, 5, #33 of 716 🔗

Whenever you hear someone quoting the latest deaths remind them

“It practically guaranteed attribution of COVID 19 mortality on the flimsiest of evidence. For example, the ONS stated:

If before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID 19 infection…it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death.”

As the ONS acknowledges, these symptoms could have been caused by a range of respiratory illnesses. The obvious consequence of the guidance they issued is over, not under, diagnosis of COVID 19. Doctors have to follow policy like anyone else. They are not to blame for this problem. State legislators and policymakers are.“

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/13/lockdown-regime-deaths-the-true-cost-of-lokin-20/

29685 ▶▶ A leaf, replying to IanE, 10, #34 of 716 🔗

I habe seen people running at night on empty streets with a mask on, people with masks and gloves at supermarkets, people avoiding people like dog shit on a very wide pavement and walking on the road instead. I have seen people putting masks on their children etc.. i have lost it quite along time ago and am very pessimistic about all these ocd ridden hypocondriac people

29705 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to A leaf, 9, #35 of 716 🔗

Just let the silly buggers get on with it. Help them, indeed: Darwinian selection to remove the hopelessly moronic. Walk straight towards them and force them under a bus. Talk loudly about the dangers of maskwearing. Jeer. Snigger. You’re quite safe, how can they
possibly touch you?

29759 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to A leaf, 5, #36 of 716 🔗

Exercising with a Mask could prove fatal:

https://infosurhoy.com/science/exercising-with-a-face-mask-on-could-prove-fatal-expert-warns/

Maybe a few well placed posters on popular running routes may help?

30149 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, #37 of 716 🔗

‘the safety of the sporting community’, eh?
No hope, you guys. Mask on, you drop dead from CO2 poisoning. Mask off, you drop dead from the Covibug.
Much better to keep unfit.

29435 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 30, #38 of 716 🔗

Just done my weekly foray to the shops. Busier than of late.

Waitrose – no queue, all as per normal inside. No bloody molasses sugar though !

Homebase – no queue, totally deserted. I asked a manager if they had ever been full. Oh yes, she said. She told me their limit is 20 people (in a place the size of a hangar). When I pointed out that the smaller Waitrose takes 32, she explained that the 20 poor sods need to be managed. She by now was giving true believer signals, so I laughed & walked on. At the till, asked if the loos were open. No, but I could use them ! Left to staff discretion, apparently. We agreed the guidelines allowed for loos to be open.

Stationers (small chain) – lady at door had a visor. This is voluntary, to “make people feel safer”. Thereafter no problem.

Health Food shop (Independent) – asked if I would mind sanitising. ‘Yes’, I said. Then feeling a bit more was called for, said ‘Allergies’. Thereafter no problem.

No leapers, only a few maskers. This nonsense is on its way out.

29441 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to JohnB, 12, #39 of 716 🔗

Oh I hope so.

29444 ▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 6, #40 of 716 🔗

No molasses, how can we bear it?

(Only joking. Your message has cheered me.)

29582 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, 2, #41 of 716 🔗

As it happens, Annie, my wife found a bag or organic coconut sugar in Lidl. So all is well with my coffee once again. 🙂

29613 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JohnB, 3, #42 of 716 🔗

My wife just got a delivery of porridge oats from amazon.

Holy god, but I’ve never seen so many oats together in one place in my life.

29976 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #43 of 716 🔗

Aldi’s organic oats are fantastic.

29704 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #44 of 716 🔗

Delighted to hear it, enjoy!

29787 ▶▶ Shep, replying to JohnB, 4, #45 of 716 🔗

Some shopstaff really relish thier new powers of authority, high vis, mask, two way radio earpiece, wrap around shades etc.. Comical really. Reminds me of stewards at a local music festival rugby tackling me for smoking near the main stage marquee when the idiotic smoking ban was enacted. Asshats)

29437 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 29, #46 of 716 🔗

Not only is Hancock taking what amounts to personal credit for the dexamethasone discovery, it was only possible at all because of developing, backing and being guided by “the science”, of course…

“Thanks to the brilliant scientists at Oxford University, working with the NHS, funded by the government, we’ve been able to develop the science that shows that dexamethasone reduces mortality by between a sixth and a third. This is huge step forward and it’s because we’ve backed the science , and because we’ve taken an approach that’s guided by the science that we’ve been able to deliver this result.”

When will he go away??

29438 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to A. Contrarian, 14, #47 of 716 🔗

Not soon enough. He is so smug and arrogant. These people think they’re above the law, oh wait…

29446 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Moomin, 16, #48 of 716 🔗

Please, please, please let Hancock have broken lockdown. I live for the day that any indiscretion, however minor, is exposed…

29472 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #49 of 716 🔗

He’s a pre-programmes robot. It’s the only explanation for the way he walks and talks.

29475 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #50 of 716 🔗

pre-programmed not pre-programmes! Oh for an edit button for those of us whose eyesight is no longer up to standard and whose auto correct has a mind of its’ own.

30010 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #51 of 716 🔗

Here he is at world economic forum 2019 getting his programming:

https://www.facebook.com/matthancockofficial/photos/a.523654854422238/2010641649056877/?theater

29489 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #52 of 716 🔗

The Duracell Bunny, complete with cloth ears and stuffing inbetween.

29493 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nick Rose, 10, #53 of 716 🔗

He’s certainly one of the strangest individuals I’ve ever come across. I would suggest redeployment as Headmaster to a minor public school in Surrey (should any be left solvent if/when this is all over).

29495 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #54 of 716 🔗

Maybe catch him on public transport, eg getting out of a taxi, without a mask?!

29535 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 5, #55 of 716 🔗

A member of the Cabinet? Use public transport??? The very idea!
I think they should summon the rest of the layoffs back to Parliament and see how they like a several-hour journey by train, wearing a mask!
And while they’re at it, they should superglue one to Kahn’s face.

29542 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #56 of 716 🔗

If masks were compulsory in Parliament, how long would it be before the rule was scrapped? If they try to make it compulsory in shops and other places where people mingle, then surely it has to also be compulsory in Parliament?

29648 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Patrick5, replying to Carrie, 3, #57 of 716 🔗

Especially with all the hot air being generated in there

29916 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #58 of 716 🔗

Parliament isn’t sitting.

29451 ▶▶ IanE, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #59 of 716 🔗

Yes of course, we know all about the brilliant scientists at Oxford University, from the meticulous attention paid by Hancock to Sunetra Gupta and her work!

30108 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to IanE, #60 of 716 🔗

Carl Heneghan too

https://www.cebm.net/oxford-covid-19-evidence-service/

Spot the ever increasing bumber of hospital trusts reporting no deaths. Surely this should be healine news. Oh wait . . .

29453 ▶▶ matt, replying to A. Contrarian, 25, #61 of 716 🔗

I’ve said it before – he loves this. Every minute of it. Little did he imagine, on that disappointing morning when he got the call and it was only health secretary, that he would – only a few months into the future – be virtually the most important man in the UK and able to strut around almost every day (except when those inconvenient irritants, Johnson, Raab and Sunak hogged the limelight) telling the British public what was good for them and being able to refer to _actual_ NHS workers as “colleagues”!

29491 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 21, #62 of 716 🔗

And threatening to take away people’s exercise time. Remember that one? Stuck up fascist pig.

29509 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nick Rose, 16, #63 of 716 🔗

I certainly do. It reminded me of nothing more than a primary school teacher threatening to keep the whole class in if the naughty boys don’t behave.

29650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Patrick5, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #64 of 716 🔗

Doing that on a national scale to civilians is classed, if my memory serves me, under the Geneva convention as a war crime.

29496 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 8, #65 of 716 🔗

..while having shares in a pharmaceutical company..

29536 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 4, #66 of 716 🔗

He’s the frontman for an AI infiltration scheme – see his past jobs.

29546 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #67 of 716 🔗

That’s what worries me – is that why he got that particular ministerial post, given that we know the EU have been planning immunity passports since at least 2018? Even after Brexit people will still travel..

30018 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, #68 of 716 🔗

He actually hold them on behalf of the UK Government as Secretary of State for Health. When the person in the job changes so does the named shareholder.

The only thing I couldn’t find out while researching this last month is why our Government would part-privatise Porton Down laboratories (where they do germ warfare and cold/influenza research for the Government and military), hold 100% of the shares then take contracts to do anthrax vaccine research for the US Government?

Fishy, looks like a way to get round bans on certain research by Governments so that both the UK and US can say “not me boss, it’s a private company doing it”.

29454 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #69 of 716 🔗

Is that the same Oxford University that says there is no scientific basis for the 2m rule?

29465 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DJ Dod, 3, #70 of 716 🔗

Hmm, you know what – I think it just might be…

29476 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to DJ Dod, 2, #71 of 716 🔗

Ooo have they just become flavour of the month? Oxford Uni even had their own man at the pedestal today during the government update I understand.

29494 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to CarrieAH, #72 of 716 🔗

I very much hope so. Anything is better than bad old Imperial College.

29488 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #73 of 716 🔗

To Hancock: Then lift the lockdown you blqqdy cretin.

29500 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nick Rose, #74 of 716 🔗

This is all you need to know about Hancock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrgCYK9xrRw

29504 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #75 of 716 🔗

What a creep. He wouldn’t know what social distancing was if it punched him in the nose…

29515 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #76 of 716 🔗
29517 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Simon Dutton, #77 of 716 🔗

Russell Howard has done something funny. Amazing!
And he’s not wrong, either.

29602 ▶▶ Ilma, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #78 of 716 🔗

And yet the reports from doctors (not medical bureaucrats) from around the world have said that HCQ+zinc has had a near universal success rate, so the 20% cited for dexamethasone seems rather lame.

29646 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #79 of 716 🔗

Develop the science? Because nobody knew that giving an anti-inflammatory steroid might mitigate and inflammatory cascade. It’s pleasing that the data show such a clear response on mortality, but I imagine it’s been de facto standard of care for the most sick patients already.

29981 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to djaustin, #80 of 716 🔗

If I remember rightly (and it’s not guaranteed!) at the beginning of the panic, they were advising not to use steroids.

29671 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #81 of 716 🔗

When we hang him.

(Seriously guys……. I don’t normally condone violence but I think I can make an exception for this weasel)

29806 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Farinances, 2, #82 of 716 🔗

I’d make an exception for all of them. No problem either in proving their guilt. They confess to their crimes on a daily basis.

29983 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, 1, #83 of 716 🔗

Does treason only extend to overthrowing the government rather than the entire country?

30020 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Farinances, 1, #84 of 716 🔗

In history, violence over the years has solved a lot of problems so don’t apologise.

Sometimes it’s necessary to fight, even Ghandi agreed. He was not the true pacifist that “mainstream history” makes him out to be. He believed that you did not start a fight but could use violence to defend yourself and others if you or they were attacked.

29673 ▶▶ Tony Prince, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #85 of 716 🔗

Don’t forget that its also because we’ve carried out our ‘civic duty’….

29440 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 25, #86 of 716 🔗

Hague – good he has realised what’s coming.

But ‘listen to Blair’ ? Large scale testing ? Dear me, no, no, no.

29445 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to JohnB, 14, #87 of 716 🔗

Agreed, let’s not listen to Blair eh?’

29538 ▶▶▶ Marion, replying to Moomin, 6, #88 of 716 🔗

On anything, anything at all. Odious, odious man.

29807 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Marion, 3, #89 of 716 🔗

Odious and dangerous.

29487 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, 12, #90 of 716 🔗

Testing will do no good. Test to find what exactly? That most people are asymptomatic and not contagious?

29502 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #91 of 716 🔗

They are really just wanting to track people..any excuse..

29603 ▶▶▶ Ilma, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #92 of 716 🔗

And the test isn’t cv-19 specific anyway!

29670 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #93 of 716 🔗

If ye look, ye shall find…..

So basically, they want to find more cases… justifying continuation of madness.
Or, they want to use testing to fuel covipass or some other track & trace dictator’s wet dream.

Either way, it’s not great. (My money is on BLiar wanting covipass or some similar scheme cause digital ID systems have been *his* wet dream since the 90s)

29448 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 43, #94 of 716 🔗

When will people realise that Johnson hasn’t saved thousands of lives but has condemned thousands to death?

29467 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Moomin, 14, #95 of 716 🔗

Maybe 100s of thousands indeed – and that is ignoring the fact that if the UK had stuck with the Sweden approach many third world countries (where 10s of millions may die of starvation etc following their lockdowns) to avoid the lockdown trap!

29468 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to IanE, 4, #96 of 716 🔗

Insert :- ‘would have been encouraged to [avoid the lockdown trap].

29492 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to IanE, 7, #97 of 716 🔗

Yes, note that William Hague (see Toby’s post above) mentioned a few countries where the social distancing is less than 2m, but failed to include Sweden, likely deliberately!

29644 ▶▶▶ Patrick5, replying to IanE, 7, #98 of 716 🔗

In many of those thrid world countries the lockdown enforcement forces have killed many more than the virus has, or ever could. And that’s before the lockdown induced famine begins.

29481 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Moomin, 27, #99 of 716 🔗

It will come Kevin. I promise you. People may sometimes be a little slow about it, but they tend to get very angry when they realise they’ve been had. And the people of this country – among others – have been had in a big, big way. If the government had ended lockdown when they had achieved the purpose for which they claim they applied it – to prevent the NHS from being overwhelmed – they would have got away with it. Too late now. This government is doomed.

29513 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Nick Rose, 16, #100 of 716 🔗

Agree – we’ve been sold a pup. What worries me is that some people can be so sensitive that they’ve rather go along with the illusion than own up to being duped

29541 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #101 of 716 🔗

Very true Tom. But the longer they cling to a delusion, the louder the pop when it goes. In turn, the greater the anger.

29588 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, #102 of 716 🔗

Pop goes the pup?

29617 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, #103 of 716 🔗

Hello, RSPCA ?

29788 ▶▶▶▶ Paul B, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #104 of 716 🔗

“It’s Easier to Fool People Than to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled”

29566 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #105 of 716 🔗

Unfortunately, so are we.

29606 ▶▶▶ Ilma, replying to Nick Rose, #106 of 716 🔗

I think I even heard a BBC R4 presenter challenging a minister on the 2m social distancing and lockdown this morning.

29675 ▶▶▶▶ Tony Prince, replying to Ilma, 2, #107 of 716 🔗

On BBC R4?! Sure you weren’t hallucinating?

29686 ▶▶▶▶ A leaf, replying to Ilma, 3, #108 of 716 🔗

Bbc and challenging ? Two words i can’t seem to put together…

30133 ▶▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Ilma, 1, #109 of 716 🔗

Asking why it isn’t 3m?!

29608 ▶▶▶ Ilma, replying to Nick Rose, 13, #110 of 716 🔗

Even that “Save the NHS” was weird. It’s the NHS that should be saving us!!

29811 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Ilma, 6, #111 of 716 🔗

What is the point of a health service that works by telling people not to seek medical attention.

29920 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, 6, #112 of 716 🔗

If you’re frail and elderly it’s currently the National Death Service.
For anyone needing routine stuff, it’s the Naitonal Covid Service.

29632 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Nick Rose, 19, #113 of 716 🔗

Not so sure about that. Just had a row with a mate on Facebook (wife of a university HoD where I was a Visiting Fellow) who is furious that I refuse to wear a mask. Even now, in mid June, when the damn thing is on the wane she is saying I’m neglecting my civic duty. These are not stupid people but believe the lie. I’ve given her three lots of material about how masks don’t work and she’s having none of it and considers me a selfish fascist for not protecting other people. And she’s had three months to do a bit if research to unearth the real story but believes the mainstream narrative. Another friend down.

29652 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella, 6, #114 of 716 🔗

Did she also believe we were going to run out of sandwiches if we Brexited?

29667 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, 4, #115 of 716 🔗

All this just…. really, really reminds me of super gonorrhea scaremongering

29710 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, 3, #116 of 716 🔗

Really interesting how this crisis has revealed many people for who they really are. It’s like what Walter Bagehot has said, letting daylight into magic.

29827 ▶▶▶▶ James, replying to Bella, 6, #117 of 716 🔗

Check out Yuri Bezmenov: The Four Stages of Ideological Subversion where he explains:
The goal of these active measures campaigns, “is to change the perception of reality of every American to such an extent that, despite the abundance of information, no one is able to come to sensible conclusions in the interests of defending themselves, their families, their community, and their country.”

29508 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Moomin, 19, #118 of 716 🔗

Once we hear of more job losses (as I don’t see many shops that have reopened yesterday surviving beyond this month at the bare minimum) and as the furlough scheme is rolled by July and finally wound down by October then I won’t be surprised if there’s rioting in the streets. As I’ve said before if Johnson and co thinks that its only the Tarquins and Jemimas jumping on the BLM bandwagon they have to worry about, they should be even more afraid of the ordinary Joe Public. When he’s lost his job or business and home then realises that he has nothing left to lose by rioting then the government is doomed.

29512 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #119 of 716 🔗

That’s why they passed the ban on gatherings of more than 6 people, to prevent protests! Incidentally, Toby writes above, that there is a sunset clause in that bill, but Mason Mills on Twitter says not…and whoever he really is, he does seem to have insider info.. Simon Dolan needs to investigate that pronto!

29527 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 10, #120 of 716 🔗

If people become so angry I don’t think that’s even going to work and it will become violent. It could make the 2011 riots look like a picnic.

29543 ▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Carrie, 1, #121 of 716 🔗

Mason Mills is Dominic Cummings isn’t he?

29553 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nel, 1, #122 of 716 🔗

He claims he is not, and that he is not a member of the ‘team’, but I think he protests too much… He clearly has insider info, whoever he (she?) is. His posts today drove me mad!

29587 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, #123 of 716 🔗

Funnily enough, “I’m not Dominic Cummings” is exactly what Dominic Cummings would say, while operating under a Twitter pseudonym

29548 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 1, #124 of 716 🔗

Many suspect Mason Mills is Dom Cummings.

29554 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #125 of 716 🔗

As do I, but he keeps claiming he is not…

29583 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #126 of 716 🔗

Incidentally, Mason also seems to be hinting that the 6 person limit to protests by law means now that the police will *have to* enforce it and cannot just take a knee and ignore BLM protests, or indeed selectively ignore any particular types of protest that they (or their bosses) secretly approve of. Also that Khan can be ‘put back in his box’ by this law… Interesting…

30062 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, 3, #127 of 716 🔗

There’s a BLM event going on where I am today, stalls, music, picnic blankets. They are untouchable.

I don’t think the approval from senior police or their political masters is “secret” – quite open, actually.

29518 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #128 of 716 🔗

Yes, I’m starting to think about the French Revolution. “Let them have furloughs” may work for a while … until it ends.

29528 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, 7, #129 of 716 🔗

Exactly. The number of people being on some form of benefits or another as well as having been added to the unemployment register is extremely worrying.

29551 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to IanE, 7, #130 of 716 🔗

I’m getting a good slagging off over in Guido after remarking that this government might not survive. The committed Conservative supporters must be frightened I might be right.

29547 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #131 of 716 🔗

Just a matter of time Bart. Maybe not of rioting (though I’m not ruling it out), but certainly some serious questions being asked up and down the country. It’s the public enquiry (I favour a full Royal Commission with plenary powers of interrogation, but we’re unlikely to get that) the government will fear. All will be laid bare then.

29562 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #132 of 716 🔗

Hopefully but I suspect the government will try to weasel out of a royal commission to cover their backs. I still think there will be rioting, if the government won’t listen or are still asleep despite all the evidence and figures, Joe Public taking matters into their own hands should wake them up.

29574 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #133 of 716 🔗

I don’t think we should be too gleeful about this. We are, after all, talking about the breakdown of civil society.

29591 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 4, #134 of 716 🔗

I am not gleeful and actually I am worried about the breakdown of civil society but what will it take for a tone deaf government to wake up listen? If they don’t want the economy to collapse and the civil society breakdown that could go with it then they should know what to do…..

29924 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #135 of 716 🔗

And if they do want civil breakdown and the collapse of the economy?

29950 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #136 of 716 🔗

They want it to collapse. Then we have martial llaw.

29994 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 2, #137 of 716 🔗

Exactly! As UK Column keep telling us, we’re no longer a democracy, we have a government of occupation.
They’re just waiting for (and systematically engineering) and excuse to fully show their hand.

29647 ▶▶▶▶ Patrick5, replying to matt, 16, #138 of 716 🔗

Quite honestly we don’t have civil society at present, we have totalitarianism, the question is not how to avoid the collapse of civil society, but how to get civil society restored, and in a way which doesn’t have to involve any of the bloody inconvenient violence. Needs to start with quick restoration of the economy, returning everything to the proper old normal, and revoking all the laws passed since March.

29531 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Moomin, 10, #139 of 716 🔗

The MSM will turn, wait for the headlines… “ Johnson hasn’t saved thousands of lives but has condemned thousands to death”

29605 ▶▶ Ilma, replying to Moomin, 7, #140 of 716 🔗

Yep, the message to ‘isolate’ also meant that thousands of people alone needing cancer treatment stopped going to hospital. How many that could have been successfully treated will now die??

29459 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Steve, 6, #142 of 716 🔗

So you have work out when you are going to fall off a ladder. Beyond belief.

29461 ▶▶ matt, replying to Steve, 16, #143 of 716 🔗

Almost as important as (maybe more so than) making the public realise that they’ve been duped on the corona narrative, how do we make the public realise that the NHS is basically enjoying an extended, over-funded holiday?

29478 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 8, #144 of 716 🔗

And the educational freeloaders.

29486 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #145 of 716 🔗

Nobody is worshipping the educational freeloaders. Close run thing, I’ll admit and I’ll also concede that they’re utterly despicable, but they are not currently enjoying an all expenses paid holiday with adulation and burnt offerings thrown in as a perk (only the all expenses paid holiday bit)

29540 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #146 of 716 🔗

Touche.

29550 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 3, #147 of 716 🔗

..plus free parking, and their shopping done by people who volunteered to support the community during the ‘pandemic’…

29479 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to matt, 7, #149 of 716 🔗

It feels to me like they’re working to rule.

29477 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steve, 9, #150 of 716 🔗

The answer my son is, instead of taking yourself off to AnE, you phone for an ambulance instead. More expensive to the government that way, but it does get you seen.

If this is true, I want my tax money and NI contributions back. I’ll just take my chances thanks.

29594 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Steve, #151 of 716 🔗

The weblink just takes me to the Beeb’s daily update. What was the news item?

29610 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #152 of 716 🔗

Apparently, you now have to make an appointment to go to A&E. but it’s fine – that broken leg will still be broken in September.

29616 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #153 of 716 🔗

Took me to this story –

… the head of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine told MPs that requiring patients to have an appointment before attending hospital casualty departments may be necessary in the UK …

29702 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 3, #154 of 716 🔗

Just keep your finger on the artery and phone with the other hand,

29687 ▶▶ A leaf, replying to Steve, 3, #155 of 716 🔗

The asswipes are still wring bout this corona pet bullshit….cats should stay home, no petting ather animals..ffffff off already..yes cats get their own corona cat corana(there really is something like that) covid from pet to human has never happened ever and only 3-4 cases around the world which at best are not scientifically proven..so why o why they are putting out idiotic stuff like that..my neighbour who loved my cat and sometimes let the cat stayat home at night never touches it anymoreyet taking her home..thae cat numerous times went there miawed but was declined a sad sight to see..i hate msm for turning people into maniacs..i will never ever forgive them my msm adventure is definately over for good

29703 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to A leaf, 5, #156 of 716 🔗

One day they’ll discover that slugs can carry the virus and must be individually tracked.

30002 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #157 of 716 🔗

Hahaha!

30000 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve, 1, #158 of 716 🔗

Good grief!!!!!!!

29455 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 44, #159 of 716 🔗

The blessed Jacinta received bad news today with the return of covid19 to the gentle shores of New Zealand courtesy of the arrival of two poms who had been fast tracked through quarantine to visit a dying relative. She acted quickly and closed down compassionate swift quarantine in exceptional circumstances.

She actually is in as much of a pickle as Boris . She has gaslighted the people of New Zealand into believing that they will perish if covid19 returns by saying look what happened to the UK where thousands of people have died . She puts nothing in context and fails to mention that nearly half were residents of care homes.

Now she will either have to maintain her borders closed for years and the resulting mass unemployment or she will have to back down and let nature take its course. Tricky decision.

29460 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Peter Thompson, 30, #160 of 716 🔗

Ah yes, New Zealand, the mini-me version of sanctimonious Canada. You would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh. Not of course that FatBoJo’s UK has much to boast about, of course!

29462 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #161 of 716 🔗

You never here that Australia has less cases per million than New Zealand.

Australia
Population = 25,486,843
Deaths = 102

New Zealand
Population = 5,002,100
Deaths = 22




29655 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Andrew, 6, #162 of 716 🔗

Wow! What an interesting stat Andrew…no I didn’t know that because our media chooses not to tell us…it’s the same with Europe, it is hardly ever mentioned that Belgium is top of the DPM death league in Europe and the whole world.

29937 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Andrew, 1, #163 of 716 🔗

Very close though, only about 10% higher

Australia 1 death per 249871 people

NZ 1 death per 227368 people

So is NZ being in permanent isolation worth it?

29469 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Peter Thompson, 34, #164 of 716 🔗

As Kiwi author Jeremy Harris points out on hectordrummond.com New Zealand has failed to acquire herd immunity. Politicians, as well as people frightened of their own shadows and cowering in their homes need to learn, or relearn, nature will always take her course. You can delay her, perhaps even frustrate her for a short while, but she is unstoppable.

Nature always wins.

29539 ▶▶ 4096, replying to Peter Thompson, 17, #165 of 716 🔗

Yes, the though being able to see St Jacinda, the patron saint of covid zealotry, being forced to gobble up a massive load of a certain type of pie is one of the things that keep me going.
It will happen sooner or later.

29561 ▶▶▶ 4096, replying to 4096, 2, #166 of 716 🔗

*the thought of being able

it’s just too exciting for me to be able to type correctly

29463 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 42, #167 of 716 🔗

I have been filling out a survey for the British Library and have said no to the following:

Pre-booking desk space in the Reading Rooms
Restricting access to the building to those with a valid booking and a Reader Pass
Staggered entry times to reduce queueing
A one-way system around the building
Changes to Reading Room layout to allow space between Readers
Pre-ordering collection items to view
Quarantine of collection items after use
Protective screens at key service points
Providing digital first services wherever possible

Availability of hand sanitiser
Enhanced venue-cleaning procedures
You are required to wear a face mask
You are required to wear gloves
Staff are required to wear face masks
Staff are required to wear gloves
On-site health monitoring (e.g. taking temperature)

And when I was asked about any other thoughts about returning to the Library, I wrote this:

I will strongly consider boycotting the library if you install all of the measures above in place. I have always appreciated how the British Library staff have treated me with kindness and courtesy and will not allow your institution to treat me as if I was a leper. I also believe that having readers and staff wear masks and gloves is a bad idea due to health and communication reasons. Long term mask wearing can lead to problems associated with the lack of oxygen going into the brain, that viruses and bacteria can saturate the mask which means that the user re-inhales all those viruses and bacteria that the body is naturally meant to exhale and that our respiratory system needs fresh air as part of healthy living. Although I am neither hearing impaired nor do I have any hearing difficulties, I have found it hard to understand what people who are masked are saying and I daresay that people who have hearing impairments or difficulties will find it even more challenging to communicate with your staff.

29532 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #168 of 716 🔗

I had an email from the British Library this afternoon, ‘Preparing to reopen’. I guess this is the survey you’ve replied to. If so, I’ll be replying pretty well as you have.

Meanwhile, I’m making he most of the free document downloads from the PRO while they are still closed. One of the very few benefits of this insanity …

29534 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 9, #169 of 716 🔗

That’s the one yes.

The gloves bit made me laugh because new conservation practice has established that the fibres from gloves actually harm old books and manuscripts more than if you were bare handed.

29694 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #170 of 716 🔗

Didn’t they have a few problems with laptop thefts a little while back? Widespread muzzle use will do that the world of good.

29698 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, #171 of 716 🔗

I actually should have mentioned that as well – muzzles will lead to a whole load of security issues like theft.

They did and of course a few years ago, some valuable manuscripts were stolen as well if I remember correctly.

29720 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #172 of 716 🔗

I’ve just done the survey, and finished with the comment:

Please get back to the ‘old normal’ as soon as possible – tomorrow if possible. The virus has just about gone. There’s no need whatsoever for the sort of measures outlined above, any more than in an ordinary flu season.
If you mandate face-muzzles I will not be visiting. The British Library is supposed to be a beacon of enlightened thinking, and thus of liberty itself. Muzzles are the antithesis of this – the parallels with Orwell’s boot stamping on the human face forever are chilling. They are also extremely unhealthy and greatly enhance the wearers’ chances of catching a respiratory infection.
Of course, if some readers or staff think themselves vulnerable then they should be allowed to wear coverings, full hazard suits, or whatever. But such measures shouldn’t be mandated.
And the use of hand sanitiser certainly should not be mandated: some people have skin allergies, and they should not be, in effect, precluded from visiting the reading rooms.

29733 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 2, #173 of 716 🔗

Well said. Hope they take note of our feedback.

29544 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #174 of 716 🔗

Oh god,it just gets worse and worse,another part of the pushing everyone to use the internet for research and information plan,every organisation is doing it’s level best to make life as unpleasant as possible for their users,also this bloody obsession with one way systems for human beings !.

29563 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 4, #175 of 716 🔗

Unfortunately the Internet doesn’t have everything. I’ve been unhappy about my recent research work which IMO has been subpar because I’ve been unable to access physical books.

29931 ▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Paul, 2, #176 of 716 🔗

Well actually I would definitely recommend you use the web. Stay off most MSM content is a good start… start asking Questions given what you know has been bullshit so far regarding covid and the BLM organisation

29595 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #177 of 716 🔗

I had a telephone follow-up with my maxillo-facial consultant yesterday morning. It ought to be hilarious because it was about a big op inside my mouth last year. Pointless exercise.

To add insult to injury, I received a text this afternoon from my local NCS (National Covid Serice) trust, asking how I rated my outpatient’s appointment. Outpatients, WTF??

Wouldn’t surprise me if they are claiming that outpatient services have been resumed. Don’t you believe it!

29604 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #178 of 716 🔗

I wonder how they can keep a straight face over that….

29902 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #179 of 716 🔗

Deserves more up-ticks …

29470 Allen, replying to Allen, 24, #180 of 716 🔗

Same radical reduction in deaths is France.

If you go to the Euromo site you that that France had a record low in death rates with a z score of -3.36 for Week 22. However that record was smashed in Week 23 with a z score of -8.85.

What we are seeing in many places (NYC, UK, Belgium, Spain. Italy, France) is a bulk rate of death with that sharp spike and a severe drop off in death rates due to the “low hanging fruit” being plucked by Death. It is important to stress that those who comprise those premature deaths are primarily nursing home/care center deaths.

And even more important to understand and stress is that those large, concentrated numbers were decidedly not caused by any virus- rather it was criminal negligence and administrative euthanasia- those are crimes.

29473 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Allen, 23, #181 of 716 🔗

They are. We knew, we blqqdy *knew* that the elderly with co-morbidities were the most vulnerable in our society. And yet we locked down and quarantined the healthy and dumped the hospitalised elderly into care homes. We’re not alone in that, other countries did the same.

This people, is what happens when you let panic take over your show. It turns into a sh1tfest, because panic is the enemy of logic, of order, and of critical thinking.

29503 ▶▶ Andrew, replying to Allen, 1, #182 of 716 🔗

after a flu outbreak the next few months are always below average

29643 ▶▶ Patrick5, replying to Allen, 6, #183 of 716 🔗

Making that mistake with shipping hospital patients to care homes, just like the UK did, is close to the only reason Sweden has had measurable covid deaths at all.

29654 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Allen, -6, #184 of 716 🔗

A crime requires a criminal…who was or were the criminals her? I think you’re being hysterical. The same thing happens every year in a bad flu epidemic – the grim reaper’s hand passes through care homes with great alacrity.

Yes, maybe there’s a lesson here about how we need to start redesigning care homes to ensure there is less cross infection but trying to stop people with dementia from infecting each other is difficult to say the least and depriving them of family contact is probably a leading cause of death in itself…is that criminal as well?

29679 ▶▶▶ Allen, replying to OKUK, 3, #185 of 716 🔗

There is nothing hysterical in the least- it’s factual and documented.

Are you opposed to investigations on this matter?

There were direct orders that caused these premature deaths both from politicians and health officials. Start there- this isn’t too murky or difficult to uncover.

In the US we could start with these criminals: Andrew Cuomo J.D., Howard A. Zucker, M.D., J.D. , and Sally Dreslin M.S, R.N.

29681 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Allen, -4, #186 of 716 🔗

“It” is factual you say. What is the “it”? That a lot of people have died in care homes? As I said before that has happened at regular intervals during bad flu years. Were you calling for criminal prosecutions – or I should say are you calling (since the UK has no statutory limitation in cases of homicide) for such prosecutions – in relation to bad flu years over the last 50 years? If not, why not?

29485 Will Jones, replying to Will Jones, 8, #187 of 716 🔗

I wrote my first sceptical piece on March 17, the day I realised the government weren’t going to let me just ignore all their stupid rules and carry on as normal. https://faith-and-politics.com/2020/03/17/coronavirus-is-the-cure-worse-than-the-disease/

29505 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Will Jones, 23, #188 of 716 🔗

When people started jumping up and down demanding a lockdown and that schools should shut, I pointed out such measures were unnecessary. I was pretty much howled down. When the lockdown came and I said (on Guido among other places) that this would end in tears, I was howled down.

I’m far from alone now. Not just here, but on Guido’s site too. Where in March I received a couple of upticks and lots of downticks for a critical comment, now it is the other way round.

29569 ▶▶ Mimi, replying to Will Jones, 12, #189 of 716 🔗

Yep. Back in March I actually thought there would be rational discussion. On my work discussion board I said surely there were better ways of addressing a possible shortfall in hospital capacity than taking everything from everyone. Which seemed obvious? Also, that COVID couldn’t possibly be as deadly as everyone was saying based on the tiny numbers of deaths in two isolated places (Wuhan and Lombardy). More fool me.

But it’s just that I want people to die.

Anyway, I remain astonished that we’re in this situation, and that people haven’t worked as hard as possible to make lockdowns etc. as SHORT as possible. And now that so very much known, that they’re not constantly revising measures to more accurately reflect the deadliness (not) of the dread disease.

29802 ▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Mimi, 2, #190 of 716 🔗

I suspect a totally different tune will be playing when the ‘free money’ runs out)

29599 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Will Jones, 14, #191 of 716 🔗

Wow, this is great and great to see it from another Christian author too. I’m not an Anglican but I’ve really struggled with the response of the church as a whole in this country, including my independent fellowship, no one seems to be standing up against the lies and the enormous damage it is causing nationally and how their members have been so misled. I’m not as astute as you with respect to when and why I knew it was wrong, I just had a gut feeling all along that something was amiss and started questioning and looking into it about a week after it all started. I’d have gone mad without this website.

29625 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Moomin, 10, #192 of 716 🔗

The churches have been totally supine. I thought they were supposed to obey God rather than men. The hypocrisy becomes more apparent by the day. Antisocial distancing and Christianity? I don’t think so!

29701 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #193 of 716 🔗

Jesus healed lepers.He got close.

29700 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Moomin, 13, #194 of 716 🔗

I am an Anglican, and there are no words to express my horror and disgust at the way the Church has behaved. Jesus Christ did not tell his followers to keep safe, turn their backs on the people, and hide in the scullery.

30076 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #195 of 716 🔗

Well Christ led by example.

Unfortunately, fat Boris did so by shaking hands in hospitals and it backfired on him. That was very unfortunate for all of us.

Pity more wasn’t made of Wankock running up the steps in Westminster after a few days off with the killer virus!

29706 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Will Jones, 10, #196 of 716 🔗

Good article Will, the implications of which our great and good are only just beginning to catch up with. Congratulations on such an early call.

My first piece lockdown scepticism appeared as late as 26 March, as a comment on Ron Liddle’s Spectator article ‘How reliable are the coronavirus figures?’. I broke my own rule of never posting anything online and for the first time in more than a decade put up a thread comment:

‘Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.’
Charles Mackay, Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions, 1841.

It was clear to me that, whatever the seriousness of the disease itself, as a society we had already descended into a hysteria worthy of a section in Mackay’s famous book.

The following day I was stopped while driving at a police roadblock down here in Devon. I refused to tell them where I was going or why, and after a few minutes they had to let me go.

And so a lockdown sceptic was born …

29506 nowhereman, replying to nowhereman, 5, #197 of 716 🔗

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2020/06/16/explosive-more-uk-covid-experts-facing-serious-data-manipulation-charges/

The Government’s leading body for Covid19 drug trials – led by the controversial character Professor Peter Horby – stands accused of grossly misleading negative trial results for the coronavirus management drug Hydroxychloroqhine. Will this at last be a wake-up call for Boris Johnson?

29510 ▶▶ IanE, replying to nowhereman, 2, #198 of 716 🔗

I hear him now, “Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz”.

29600 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to nowhereman, #199 of 716 🔗

He’s in a coma so it’ll take a while for him to wake up.

30088 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nowhereman, #200 of 716 🔗

Are epidemiologists usually in charge of clinical trials?

29507 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 17, #201 of 716 🔗

I don’t believe the regular suggestions that most people favour lockdown. The latest ONS figures say 40% feel safe or very safe going out whilst only about 25%say they feel unsafe. If you feel safe or very safe going out I would imagine you don’t support the lockdown.

29516 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Stephen McMurray, 12, #202 of 716 🔗

They favour a prolonged holiday, pretty much on full pay, enjoying themselves at home. Trouble is, reality always comes to call. Sooner or later, you have to wake up.

29523 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 9, #203 of 716 🔗

And there’s no such thing as a free lunch. Sooner or later we all have to pay one way or the other.

29598 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stephen McMurray, 1, #204 of 716 🔗

Unless you feel safe because of the antisocial-distancing measures, masks etc. I suspect the questions were rigged that way!

29511 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 10, #205 of 716 🔗

I’m very proud of being Welsh. I’m Welsh born, rather than born Welsh, I know some here understand this important distinction.

However, I am far from proud of the Assembly (now calling itself a government, lol). The non-entity running this corner of the UK is hellbent on destroying it. He’s terrified of lifting lockdown, not because of the mythical “R” number, but because of the economic devastation that will be revealed under his stewardship. And it is under his stewardship, as he said himself that the way forward in Wales concerning the lockdown was down to him. He’s taken ownership.

Even in Wales, I don’t fancy Labour’s chances in next year’s elections. Especially if opposition parties get their act together. Because it’s not first-past-the-post in Wales, it’s pretty much PR.

29519 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #206 of 716 🔗

Poisonous representation!

29642 ▶▶▶ Patrick5, replying to annie, 3, #207 of 716 🔗

IF it can kick out an authoritarian it doesn’t sound a bad voting method to me.

29520 mjr, replying to mjr, 21, #208 of 716 🔗

Latest from BBC fearmongering productions. On first page of website since this afternoon
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53047819
flushing toilet might spread covid virus in faeces so put the lid down.
Really the only thing full of sh!t is the BBC.

29530 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to mjr, 7, #209 of 716 🔗

They’ll have us crapping outside next. Pathetic.

29570 ▶▶▶ Mimi, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #210 of 716 🔗

They DO have us crapping outside. Have you seen an open public toilet recently?

29612 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #211 of 716 🔗

Closed public loos have already sorted that one.

29586 ▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, 3, #212 of 716 🔗

DT reported last week that sewage farms would be searched for signs of the bug.
Nice employment opportunities for some of our young people, eh?

29641 ▶▶▶ Patrick5, replying to annie, 7, #213 of 716 🔗

Perhaps everyone who denounced a neighbour for lockdown violations should, for their dedication to “the cause”, be given such sewage checking jobs (and be banned from doing any other job or claiming any unemployment benefit should they quit) so they can keep experiencing the load of sh*t they’ve been so happy to unleash on the world.

29824 ▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Patrick5, 3, #214 of 716 🔗

Maybe they should all be rounded up and made to live in “safe” reservations for the rest of their lives while the sane get on with our lives.

29822 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to annie, #215 of 716 🔗

In Spain they took samples of sea water to test for the corona flu.

29965 ▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to paulito, 2, #216 of 716 🔗

Some local lads who were dobbed in by nearby curtain-twitching residents for surfing off the West Wales coast were told that due to their selfish actions the sea would have to be tested for coronavirus!

30155 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Melangell, #217 of 716 🔗

Well, if it got a bit of a temperature I wouldn’t complain.

29609 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #218 of 716 🔗

Flushing creates an aerosol. So this is basic antibacterial common sense, nothing new and nothing to do with the covid virus.

29611 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #219 of 716 🔗

Having said that, people haven’t bothered about toilet lids for decades – they keep their toothbrushes near the loo too. No sweat!

29910 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #220 of 716 🔗

yes , i know that… my point was that BBC were linking this to covid and asserting that the virus could be in faeces so just adding to and perpetuating the scare stories

30110 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 2, #221 of 716 🔗

I understood that, MJR.
My intention was to back up your point by showing that the BBC were fearmongering by pretending this is something new. Failed miserably, sorry.
Scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren’t they?

29940 ▶▶ ianp, replying to mjr, 2, #222 of 716 🔗

Lol… this is so laughable that it must be psy-op deliberate. They are practically begging readers to wake up and do their own research away from the the BBC and other MSM.

Seriously, you got to do it… most illuminating…

29521 Stephen McMurray, 37, #223 of 716 🔗

I work in Belfast City Centre and all shops were permitted to open from yesterday. The people were about one third the normal amount yesterday and today but the main shopping centre had more people yesterday but was virtually empty today. This suggests that people went in just because it was newly opened but that novelty has already worn off after 24 hours.

It’s not just social distancing that is going to kill off town centres, it is the amount of people working from home. Belfast has a lot of office workers and a very high percentage of civil servants, at least 50% of which are now having to work from home whether they want to or not. That’s a large drop in potential customers going into shops already. Combine that with the people who have been terrified to death by the propaganda and the enormous amount of people who will soon be unemployed and there isn’t a hope in hell of survival for many town and city centres.

I fear that even if they scrapped the 2 metre rule tomorrow many shops would still implement it voluntarily because they or their workers still live in fear. I also think that even if the government wanted to lift it, the minute they did so, the MSM would be full of big pharma shills saying there will be another wave and the government are going to be responsible for a lot more deaths. The government really need to jettison the scientists at this point, who have been consistently wrong throughout, and just do what is best for the country – end all lcokdown measures immediately.

29525 Simon Dutton, replying to Simon Dutton, 10, #224 of 716 🔗

New figures for “footfall” in UK shops have been published. Things are dire; it seems the much-anticipated death of the high street (not to mention shopping centres) is finally upon us. 50+% year on year decline for both. Retail parks have done slightly better, down 23.6%.

Shoppers have got the online habit and it might be permanent. Who can blame them?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8425717/High-Streets-England-saw-50-rise-shoppers-yesterday.html

29529 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Simon Dutton, 13, #225 of 716 🔗

Well, you can see how shoppers are treated now. Hardly surprising is it?

29533 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Simon Dutton, 19, #226 of 716 🔗

This doesn’t surprise me. Treat people as lepers this is what they get.

29628 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Simon Dutton, 4, #227 of 716 🔗

My local shopping centre in London was very quiet today. Waitrose and Waterstones both quieter than I expected.WH Smith not open (but they looked like they were on their last legs before the pandemic). Primark was popular.

29545 Ilma, replying to Ilma, 1, #228 of 716 🔗

William Hague says we “must test on a large scale”, but does he understand that the covid-19 antigen test doesn’t actually test specifically for cv-19, by for *ANY* rna based virus. The test simply amplifies any rna that’s present regardless of whether it’s cv-19 or a.n.other.

30111 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ilma, 1, #229 of 716 🔗

He’s not very bright so the answer is probably no.

29549 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 34, #230 of 716 🔗

Unless we stop acquiescing to the government, nothing will change.
We must all ignore the rules or we won’t get our freedom back. The government may reduce the antisocial distancing to 1m but they won’t give up full control, because this Covid farce has given them the opportunity they want to dictate to us.
Don’t run your life based on what other people think of you. Stand against the BS and the cards will come crashing down!

29555 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Castro, 19, #231 of 716 🔗

It’s still a little bit early for this. Keep resistance to a low level for now, especially while we are in our ones and twos. No matter how right, we’re still easy pickings. Organisation will come, is coming. The protest must be calm, but with large numbers. A campaign of civil disobedience towards all the corona regulations, but in numbers. Such as twelve refusing to wear masks on a train as an example. A mass walk on the hills of Snowdonia or the Brecon Beacons, where such activity is still banned. Things like that. Still too early, but the time is close.

29575 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #232 of 716 🔗

Oh well, I’ve already started lol. Actually I started at the beginning.

29557 ▶▶ Stephen McMurray, replying to Jonathan Castro, 18, #233 of 716 🔗

if social distancing does go to 1m it will be so close to where people would normally stand near someone without invading their space the social distancing may fade away naturally – as long as all the shops are not afraid to introduce it.

29573 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Stephen McMurray, #234 of 716 🔗

It may..or may not

29567 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Castro, #235 of 716 🔗

Good stuff Jonathan. You’re sounding just like Icke. 🙂 🙂

29572 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to JohnB, #236 of 716 🔗

I’ve just seen a video of his, lol. I think he’s wrong on his Covid “hoax” theory and I don’t agree with new age stuff, but there was a lot of sense in the rest of it.

29630 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Castro, 2, #237 of 716 🔗

He does talk a lot of sense – if you can get past the lizards.

29944 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianp, replying to Cheezilla, #238 of 716 🔗

I think the way to look at it is like troubleshooting any problem where you don’t know what the answer is, eliminating what you know and feel is untrue despite what you are being fed by others, one by one…

29560 Jonathan Castro, 2, #239 of 716 🔗

I don’t agree with this guy’s new-agey stuff or his extreme Coronavirus “hoax” view, but I found this very interesting (best to start @ around 1 hr 23min):
https://freedomplatform.londonreal.tv/rose-icke-iv-we-will-not-be-silenced/

29565 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #240 of 716 🔗

Someone recommended this on the Carl Vernon channel. Its an American website but it has most if not all known information about the dangers of mask wearing:

https://www.thehealthyamerican.org/masks-dont-work

She also has a YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwC7VpIHS2uJzJ0q5I11oQA

29637 ▶▶ Patrick5, replying to Bart Simpson, -3, #241 of 716 🔗

Perhaps better not to demonise mask wearing too much, if it gives the coronanists some confidence enough to start opposing the more severe threats to freedom then it can be ok. If wearing a mask is enough to get them demanding shops accept cash and don’t try contactless fascism, get them demanding workplaces reopen as normal without extra bureaucracy, have them refusing to queue outside shops (especialy as the weather turns, which it surely will as lockdown is lifted), have them refusing spying apps… Then an uncomfortable and largely useless strip of cloth over the face isn’t so bad.

29666 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Patrick5, 7, #242 of 716 🔗

It is if the muzzled demonise those who don’t wear them.

29697 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, 1, #243 of 716 🔗

They do. The grey mush in their heads oroduces the following: l1. I. I

29699 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 6, #244 of 716 🔗

Sorry, hit wrong button.

  1. I do not have the bug.
  2. Everybody else has the bug.
  3. Therefore I must wear a mask to protect myself.
  4. Therefore everybody else must wear a mask to protect me.
  5. Therefore anybody who does not wear a mask is a criminal and must be punished.
29815 ▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Patrick5, 9, #245 of 716 🔗

Damp rag which is a breeding ground for germs. Restricts intake of oxygen, inhale your own exhaled co2, restricts communication verbal and nuanced visual cues. sign of conformity. Godsend for those that have ocd. All round crap idea in a western ‘democracy’- Just sayin…)

30123 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Patrick5, 2, #246 of 716 🔗

If you want to wear a mask because it makes you feel safer, you should be free to do so.

If I don’t want to wear a mask because I know it’s unnecessary, then I should also be free not to.

29568 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #247 of 716 🔗

Scotland in it for the long haul lol

29592 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #248 of 716 🔗

Every time she is interviewed on TV, she says all manner of things that one might politely characterise as ‘alternative facts’, yet she always get as free pass from the interviewer.

29629 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #249 of 716 🔗

She’s a supersnake and I doubt you’ll have to look far to find who’s sponsoring her.

29633 ▶▶▶ Patrick5, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #250 of 716 🔗

When she spouts alternative facts it is the duty of every Scot to obey alternative government, whether they wish to choose England, or better yet Sweden, is up to them.

29627 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #251 of 716 🔗

Is the “under 20 cases” for the WHOLE of Scotland? How flat does the bloody sombrero have to be?

29653 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #252 of 716 🔗

Today in Scotland (population 5.5 million), 15 new cases. So flatter than Flat Fred’s Flat Feet, it would seem. Maybe she’s talking about active cases, but regardless, the virus, in effect, is no longer present in Scotland.

29730 ▶▶▶ EmbraFlaneur, replying to Cheezilla, #253 of 716 🔗

I could well be wrong but I think it’s supposed to be 20 new confirmed cases per day (which is what we’re hovering around at present – there were 146 positive tests in the last 7 days yesterday up from 127 in the 7 days up to Saturday).

30124 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to EmbraFlaneur, #254 of 716 🔗

20 per day in a population of 5.5million is, I think, odds of 275,000:1

29571 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #255 of 716 🔗
29579 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to HawkAnalyst, #256 of 716 🔗

Unfortunately behind a paywall..

29576 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 31, #257 of 716 🔗

Welsh tourism is in huge trouble. We spend 2-4 weeks in the Snowdonia/Lleyn area every year but the paranoia which has seeped down from the Welsh Assembly has made us think again. Even with Welsh friends and family, having English accents and an English number plate, becoming the target of hostility from officialdom or locals is not an appealing prospect. I’m sorry to tell the Welsh (and residents of other tourist destinations), the “go home” signs will not be quickly forgotten. Assuming we can get a holiday at all this year, it will likely be either here in beautiful Derbyshire, or perhaps Yorkshire or East Anglia. The danger for the Welsh tourism industry is we may not go back as much in future, or at all.

29578 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 17, #258 of 716 🔗

I’ve read reports about the same in Cornwall too – well I ain’t going there even if they paid me a million pounds. It’s funny that they don’t seem to realise that they’re committing economic hara kiri.

29580 ▶▶ matt, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 10, #259 of 716 🔗

Sorry to say that I’ve been put off Derbyshire, Cumbria, Cornwall and Wales fo life, I think.

29585 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, 10, #260 of 716 🔗

Actually, in our defence, Derbyshire has been OK since the first week of lock-up when the cops sent up their drone and made that dire ‘anti-social distancing’ video of people minding their own business on Curbar Edge. We think the public reaction along with Sumption’s bollocking.spooked them enough to back-off for the duration.

If they opened the pubs, cafes and toilets it would be almost normal here (!) Actually a drone flew over us up on top of Kinder on Sunday. The OH and I both vigorously gave it 2 fingers and then we realised it was being flown by 2 lads from Manchester on top of the Woolpack rocks, nearby. Oh, we laughed1

29601 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #261 of 716 🔗

I’ll give you that, and that the message from the peaks has been less insistent than elsewhere. Wish I could think of a single reason why – in law or in principle – going for a lonely walk in the Peak District might ever have been a problem. But since you’ve pointed it out, I’ll forgive Derbyshire. But not Cumbria, Wales or Cornwall.

29768 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, 2, #262 of 716 🔗

Thanks and you’re welcome anytime! 🙂

29584 ▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 14, #263 of 716 🔗

I know, it’s horrible, but it isn’t all of us. It’s because Stalin Drakeford’s ear (without any attachment to a brain) is being bent by anglophobes who have always resented English people having second homes in Wales, etc., etc., and who see this as the ideal opportunity to get rid of them. (Who sold them the second homes, for a fat profit? Don’t ask that question.) These extremists don’t give a toss for the wellbeing of anybody in Wales, so long as they can vent their hate.
You can’t possibly loathe them half as much as all decent Welsh people do. But our protests are ignored, our counter-postings are immediately deleted from Welsh sites, and the yammerers have it all their own way.

29656 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to annie, 7, #264 of 716 🔗

As someone from Wales I am concerned that the impression is given that Wales is somewhere hostile to outsiders as the Welsh economy is heavily dependent on visitors. I don’t work in tourism but I would hate to see our economy ruined.

29659 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to ianric, 2, #265 of 716 🔗

Of no interest to Labour, Plaid or the Lib Dems. They just want to signal their virtue and hope to help trip up Boris.

29695 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ianric, 5, #266 of 716 🔗

Then please, please resist, pester your MP. and AS ( member of the Welsh Assembly), and help to show that not all the Welsh are anglophobic morons.

29665 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #267 of 716 🔗

Apparently people in the Dales have been hostile to visitors- BUT the guy from Welcome To Yorkshire has been doing his best to plug Yorkshire tourism and encourage visitors to beauty spots from both within and without the county.

People need a pick a side. Do they want to have a tourism industry left in their area, ro do they want perpetual ‘safety’ and unemployment?

29674 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Farinances, 3, #268 of 716 🔗

Did the boss of Visit Yorkshire leave post within the last couple of weeks?. Maybe he could see the sh1t at end of all this

29678 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #269 of 716 🔗

I’m Welsh and angry, what the hell are they dong to Wale? I despair

29696 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #270 of 716 🔗

DON’T. Act instead. See my reply to Ianric sbove.

29577 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #271 of 716 🔗

What Will Business School Look Like in the Fall? – The Wall Street Journal

https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-will-business-school-look-like-in-the-fall-11591881710

29581 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #272 of 716 🔗

What business school? 🙂

29596 ▶▶▶ Patrick5, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #273 of 716 🔗

What Business? What School?
Sweden of course shows you can have both, and have civil liberties, and lose less lives per million to a pandemic than countries where zealots took charge.

29589 Patrick5, replying to Patrick5, 17, #274 of 716 🔗

I fear that Hague isn’t quite as much on our side as we’d like. While he does, admirably, oppose the lockdown he has made noises in that article supporting what Tony Blair has been recently saying. The same Tony blair who has made numerous disturbing comments about how we should be willing to give up hard won freedom and privacy in the name of delusional attempts at safety. I’m glad to see the anti-lockdown cause spreading wider, but we need to ensure we get a free world afterwards, not a world enslaved by surveillance which is supposedly preventing the next pandemic but really preventing any kind of change to the authoritarian thugs at the top (be they right or left wing at that time).

29663 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Patrick5, 15, #275 of 716 🔗

Exactly – this.

i was just going to post something similar. What he’s actually saying is “Lockdown is bad, but we need all the Orwellian bullshit to set us free!”

Boo. Hiss.

29607 Bella, replying to Bella, 2, #276 of 716 🔗

Any demos planned for this weekend in light of more than six gathered together incurring the death sentence|?

29614 ▶▶ matt, replying to Bella, 2, #277 of 716 🔗

I’m still not seeing why you can’t have multiple gatherings of up to six in a very similar place.

29621 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, #278 of 716 🔗

Riot sticks, police horses, tear gas, kettling, …

Sorry, I tend towards cynicism at times.

29676 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to JohnB, #279 of 716 🔗

No apologies, I hear where you’re coming from

29619 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 4, #280 of 716 🔗

It means two “normal” families, (ie him, her +2 kids) can’t get together, let alone have the grandparents along. It makes the 10 per funeral look generous!

Hopefully it will be a red rag to a bull for those able to mobilise against it.

29622 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 18, #281 of 716 🔗

Private schools set to ignore Government and open in September ‘come what may’
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/16/exclusiveprivate-schools-set-ignore-government-open-septembercome/

29626 ▶▶ Patrick5, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #282 of 716 🔗

Well done for the defiance. Hope more organisations follow that proud example. Especially in Wales and Scotland might give those two lunatic leaders something to think about.

29693 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Patrick5, 7, #283 of 716 🔗

Think? It’s beyond their capacity. As my old headmaster used to say, ‘Why do you have a head? To keep your ears apart?’

29638 ▶▶ Paul B, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #284 of 716 🔗

Ignore the guidance, according to Boris it was never mandated just a ‘suggestion’ what a weasel.

29623 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 10, #285 of 716 🔗

So we are already (figures now nearly two weeks old) into negative excess deaths in London…I think this will now be the pattern of the summer, across the country, meaning the touted 50K excess deaths will likely reduce as much as 50%. This is of course a cause for rejoicing, but don’t expect our Red Meanie Media to rejoice. At some point the “collateral damage” deaths resulting from Lockdown will begin to show through.

29692 ▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 6, #286 of 716 🔗

Does ‘negative excess deaths’ mean that the sheeted dead are returning to squeak and gibber in London’s streets?
If so, such things are a portent of the fall of great men.
Or in this case, of petty men. I hope.

29631 Patrick5, 9, #287 of 716 🔗

There is no benign purpose for that kind of technology. No need for debate, we need to ban it, and mobilise to ensure it is useless to anyone who would wish to deploy it. Enough false readings, enough officials at the regime’s top framed for disloyalty…

29636 Jonathan Castro, 6, #288 of 716 🔗

Exactly. I’m in one of those businesses myself.

29639 Patrick5, replying to Patrick5, 8, #289 of 716 🔗

No lockdown is a success story. Sweden is a success story, and everyone should be embarassed to admit that Belarus, almost a relic of the cold war, is handling it better than Britain or the usually sane countries of Western Europe have.

29662 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Patrick5, 1, #290 of 716 🔗

Yes, it’s sad we can’t really trust the Belarusian figures (same with China and Russia of course), since they kind of went out of their way to spread it round…If their figures are to be believed then it has been a stunning achievement.

But of course all the East European countries have very low DPMs I believe. Does that reflect the fact they have very low migrant populations? There seems a strong correlation but our media would never tell us that…it’s only of relevance internally (where it can be used to further the PC agenda).

29640 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 15, #291 of 716 🔗

Telegraph cartoon 17 June 2020
comment image ?imwidth=450

29691 ▶▶ annie, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #292 of 716 🔗

In case you young sprigs don’t realise, this refers to a famous poster in the 1978 general election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Isn%27t_Working

29729 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 1, #293 of 716 🔗

Thanks for the reminder of my age :o((

lol

30150 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #294 of 716 🔗

Oops! But in Scepticland there is no old or young, only sceptical.

30128 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 2, #295 of 716 🔗

I ran a Labour committee room during that election.
The odious Norman Fowler told the Tory conference that they would “put the peasants back in their place.”
I was only 18 but that did it for me.

29649 OKUK, 5, #296 of 716 🔗

True, but the PC Media always have to have a star female politician to genuflect to. So Ardern the Emoter it is for the moment. Once it was Aung San Suu Kyi…till she blotted her copybook. Hillary Clinton wanted the accolade…almost got it, but failure is not tolerated.

29658 P1234, 3, #297 of 716 🔗

https://vancouversun.com/health/local-health/a-tale-of-two-b-c-events-why-a-dental-conference-became-a-covid-19-hotspot-but-a-rugby-tourney-did-not

Article looking at the rugby 7s held in early March in Vancouver and a dental conference the same weekend, one of which became a hotspot for Covid and which one didn’t

29661 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 11, #298 of 716 🔗

Good stuff again.
Question: why does a judge, or an anaesthetist, or a BBC journalist, get 100% pay while not working; while a hairdresser (who pays their salary) gets 80% up to a max of £2,500? Could it be as simple as, because they can?

29664 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to WhyNow, 1, #299 of 716 🔗

I don’t think it’s a max of £2500. Where did you get that from? I think the rationale for the 80% is that (as an average) you’re not paying travel costs, buying sandwiches for lunch, or having to buy clothes for work, so you’re saving on your usual costs, especially if you are on lockdown in any case. I think people are reporting they have found they have been saving money during lockdown – about the only positive effect!

The one I couldn’t understand is why the BBC cancelled its news staff redundancies. Is it claiming it’s getting more output from staff during lockdown? I don’t believe it. It was purely political. They never wanted to make the redundancies and now they think they can defy common sense…and the “effing Tories” of course.

29677 ▶▶▶ Roger Marlow, replying to OKUK, 4, #300 of 716 🔗

“Where did you get that idea from?” From the government I expect. Helpful (i.e. private sector) summary here:

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/04/employed-help-coronavirus-furlough/

“The state pays your employer 80% of your salary, up to £2,500/month. Once the cash arrives with your employer, it needs to put it through the normal payroll process to ensure it’s taxed.”

29813 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Roger Marlow, -1, #301 of 716 🔗

Well WhyNow didn’t clarify it as “per month” did they? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. You’ve got to have a cut off somewhere, That’s per person. For some households that could well mean £60,000 per annum. Yes, the cut off will cause problems for some people – they may have to dip into savings or borrow. But then that’s no different from actually becoming unemployed. I am much more concerned about that long term effect – people now losing their jobs permanently. .

The Government should be focussing now on stimulus measures, not funnelling more money to people who in all likelihood will just use it to bolster their savings accounts.

30137 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, 1, #302 of 716 🔗

It was made clear it was £2500 max. If your rent is best part of £2000, it doesn’t leave much. If that’s your mortgage, it’s going to bite hard later.

30140 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #303 of 716 🔗

It costs so much to put a roof over people’s heads nowadays, that many younger people don’t have any savings. You are obviously old and sitting pretty.

29689 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to OKUK, 1, #304 of 716 🔗

That max is from Sunak, it’s up to 2.5k.

29727 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 1, #305 of 716 🔗

Furlough maximum is £2500 monthly.

29680 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 6, #306 of 716 🔗

“You are not crazy and your views are not evil.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZLH077cE7Y

Tucker Carlson speaks the truth. Google not responsible for comments on its platform (thanks to a legal get-out their lobbyists have secured)…but Googles makes sites responsible for comments on their sites.

It’s great the way he is taking on Google.

Is it not hugely shameful that there isn’t a single MP in our Parliament who will even utter a mouse-speak of objection to Google’s lockdown on free speech.

29690 ▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 3, #307 of 716 🔗

Mice roar compared with MPs.

30141 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #308 of 716 🔗

What Parliament?

29682 BobT, 14, #309 of 716 🔗

I have posted the first part of this before, as a bit of a joke, but the news coming out of China today makes me thing I am not far from reality. I have added my theory about the recent news from China at the end.

Love, Bob


BEIJING, February 2020

President is having breakfast. His head of intelligence (HI) walks in excitedly.

Pres: What do you want?
HI: Boss, I have come up with a brilliant idea
Pres: Yes..and?
HI: You know about this virus outbreak in Wuhan….
Pres: Oh yes, we did a brilliant job controlling that, shut down a whole city, scared the shit out of my loyal followers, nobody complained or argued. In fact if I remember right we did not execute many detractors and we only had to imprison a few. One of my better moments don’t you think?
HI: Yes, yes Sir, of course but listen, the virus is spreading, not here of course, but around the world.
Pres: Thats a shame. I hope they can control it like we did.
HI: But, Boss we see an advantage here to help us expand our power worldwide.
Pres: Oh yes, I like that idea! Tell me, tell me more.
HI: Listen carefully, this is the plan. We eggagerate the danger of this virus and claim it kills, lets say, 10 or 15% of everyone who catches it and publicise that in the western world’s press. Then, you may remember that we invested a whole ton of money in Ethiopia, secured most of their minerals, only had to bribe a few of their politicians……
Pres: Yes, good move that. But what’s this got to do with the virus?
HI: Sorry Sir, but one of their politicians is now head of the World Health Organisation and he owes us a favour. We will ask him to to declare this virus a global pandemic. Not only that but we have invested a lot into Imperial College London and about half their students are Chinese so we will ask them a favour too. They can make up some wildly exaggerated predicted numbers of deaths and put them in a professional looking document and present it to their Government to scare them.
Pres: OK, OK but get on with it……the world domination bit.
HI: Bear with me Sir. You know the western press can publish anything they like, the scarier the better, and they cannot even execute or imprison their journalists.
Pres: Yes, I always thought that was strange, ha ha ha.
HI: Yes, funny that. So they will definitely publish the exaggerated figures from ICL along with their recommendations to lockdown their whole economies. The WHO pandemic announcement will be music to their ears. Think of the sales, think of the advertising revenue for them! They will terrify their people. But this is the best bit……The western leaders are terrified of being criticised by their press so they will follow what the press say. They will lockdown all their businesses, put their citizens under house arrest and impose drastic restrictions on their freedoms.
Pres. Just like us, ha ha. I bet they will go against their own silly human rights laws they bang on about too.
HI: And voila! We have destroyed their economies.
Pres: I get it, I get it now. We go in and buy up all their broken businesses for a song. We put their workers on 7 day working weeks for half their present pay……we clean up……at no cost to us ….and not a shot fired! Your plan is beyond brilliant. You must execute it immediately. I will recommend you for a State Honour and your pay will be doubled to 20 dollars a month.
HI: Thank you, thank you, you are the greatest Dear Leader. (lots of bowing and adoration).

BEIJING, June 2020

HI: Boss, the western press are getting the idea that the lockdowns we engineered are starting to fall apart.
Pres.: What can we do?
HI: We cannot give up with this, we really do need world domination, so I respectfully request that we start another crisis. We tell the western press that we have another very serious, devastating, outbreak of the virus and we lock down some of our people again.
Pres.: Why would we do that ?
HI: We are not quite finished with those westerners yet, world domination is close, so we have to hold firm. They have destroyed most of their industry, taken away their personal liberties, broken all their silly human rights laws, ……
Pres.: Yes just like us eh…ha..ha..
HI: We just need to convice them of a second wave of the infection, and then voila, (excuse my french) we have achieved our goal.
Pres: Great! Lets fuck em!

29684 A leaf, 5, #310 of 716 🔗

Oh nononono ifr rate is NOT %1. it is much much lower with all the age groups in the estimation it’s 0.3 ish. Even lower for healthy individuals under 40, ridicilously lower for individiuals under 18..

29688 A leaf, #311 of 716 🔗

Then why the fffff china is closing schools in beijing again ????

29707 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 16, #312 of 716 🔗

Times columnist Jawad Iqbal criticising Cornwall’s less than friendly attitude towards tourists and visitors:

Cornwall will suffer if tourists follow advice and stay away
Jawad Iqbal
Wednesday June 17 2020, 12.01am, The Times


On the face of it, Cornwall county council’s advice that visitors should stay away reads like the shortest suicide note in the history of tourism. About four million people visit the region every year; the tourism industry is worth more than £1 billion to the local economy; and a third of the local workforce, about 70,000 people, depend for their livelihoods on the tourist trade each summer.
Warning people off visiting Cornwall puts these jobs in jeopardy and risks killing off Cornwall’s thriving tourist business in the longer term. Yet Tim Dwelly, the council’s cabinet member for the economy, insists it’s the right move. Instead he wants the county’s tourist industry to be bailed out by unspecified “grants and support” this year. It’s an argument that has provoked ridicule and outrage for suggesting that tourists are only welcome when it suits locals and that Cornwall should in effect be given public funding for turning holidaymakers away.
Dig a little deeper though and it’s hard not to feel some sympathy for the impossible dilemma facing tourism chiefs and councillors. Cornwall has one of the lowest number of coronavirus cases of any area in England — just 591 — and an infection rate of just 104 per 100,000 population. But the region has only one hospital with critical care facilities and there are legitimate fears that facilities could be overwhelmed quickly if outside visitors cause a spike in infections.
There are fears too that maintaining physical distancing rules would become virtually impossible once the tourists start to pour in. Not that it will be business as usual anyway. Tourist attractions, if open, will be operating timed ticket entry; takeaways will have to be collected at prearranged times and restaurants will be reservation only.
The tourism industry has been left in the lurch by a lack of clear national guidance. Tourism chiefs are right to accuse the government of “penalising” the sector by failing to confirm a definite date for holiday and hospitality facilities to reopen. Campsites and holiday park owners had hoped to be given the green light to open from July 4. There’s still no official word yet. That’s damaging because tourism businesses need time to prepare facilities and inform their staff.
Cornwall needs to stay open to visitors this summer: that’s the only way to save critical jobs at a time of rising unemployment. Ministers keep insisting they are keen to get tourism back up and running. The only way to do that is to provide clarity — and quickly — and not leave local politicians and officials operating in the dark.

And some readers’ comments:

We should not go to where we are not welcome. Cornwall can’t have it both ways. Perhaps if they are short of cash they should reopen the tin mines or search for lithium which should fill a big hole (literally) in their economy.

We go every year for 3 weeks, sometimes more, and spend a great deal of money eating out in the excellent restaurants. Based on the negative comments from the council we have binned our holiday this year and will spend the money in France instead. Life is full of risk and there should be no more bail outs. If businesses go under they should turn on their risk averse council…..

Why is Cornwall different from any other region?
I think tourists should comply for the next 10 years – leave the pitchfork inbred yokels to fend for themselves.

Under the public health camouflage the main driver is that most reliable English one, snobbery. Which is not to excuse the government’s dithering and indecision in this and much else.

29714 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #313 of 716 🔗

Cornwall Council spent an obscene amount of money on a temporary mortuary at Newquay airport – a departure lounge of 900 ‘beds’ – and it’s of course stayed empty. The UK government is supposed to be footing the bill for that expenditure I think and although I live in Cornwall, I strenuously object to these constant calls for the government to support this and underwrite that.
The local population seems to be relishing the lockdown situation. Comments are still being made like “we don’t want them down here with their nasty germs”. Vigilantes have happily been dobbing second home owners arriving in our little town.

29716 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluemoon, 8, #314 of 716 🔗

That’s precisely the attitude that Iqbal above is criticising. I have to say that if the Cornish economy collapses and the Treasury can’t bail them out then I’m sorry but they will get their just desserts.

29719 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #315 of 716 🔗

It won’t collapse, but like everywhere else there are uncertain times coming.Obviously. My little town is booked out from mid-July onwards and I would expect other tourist destinations will be the same….

29722 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluemoon, 8, #316 of 716 🔗

My only hope is that this madness would end and we can return to normal. Unfortunately the damage is already done I think.

29725 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #317 of 716 🔗

This attitude has reared its ugly head in Wales and Cumbria also. Possibly other places, but I haven’t heard anything. If the attitude has transferred to locals, then in a tourist-dependent area, they will have shot themselves with both barrels in both feet. And folk elsewhere should remember, and “vigilantes” push them back home when they try to move around the country for work.

29726 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #318 of 716 🔗

Agree. Attitudes like that will kill domestic tourism stone dead as people would rather go abroad where they will be welcome and the weather more reliable.

30026 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #319 of 716 🔗

All true, but please remember that not all the people in these areas are such selfish pigs. As far as most of us are concerned, tourists are our life blood and we need you. What’s more, I work – used to work – part time at a tourist attraction and meeting the visitors was interesting and fun. I do. IT. want to treat people like lepers. Not. Not.

30028 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #320 of 716 🔗

Maybe they should have used some of the £1 billion earned from tourism and built a couple of new hospitals. Just to be on the safe side.

29709 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, #321 of 716 🔗

The BMJ on the problems with face masks

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435/rr-40

29711 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #322 of 716 🔗

Saw that article. Thanks.

Down below, I posted a link to a website that has more links to the dangers of mask wearing, its called “The Healthy American”

29712 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, #323 of 716 🔗

further down – sorry!

29717 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, #324 of 716 🔗

Further up – AAARRRGGGHH!!

29713 Peter Forsythe, replying to Peter Forsythe, 13, #325 of 716 🔗

Re the HAIG article: It’s fine, but…
Why does nobody ever mention my home town of Hong Kong , when they talk about places having done well?
We’re pretty much the gold-standard . We’re a city of over 7 million, extremely densely packed and right next to China, the source of the infection. Yet we’ve managed to control infection rates and keep deaths to just four . (That’s a total , not daily).
We’ve done WAY better than the ones Haig mentions, Denmark, France and Germany. [let alone Italy and Spain].
We never went into Lockdown Max, instead doing what I call a “ Lockdown Lite ”. We closed only gyms and pubs (ok, and schools), all now reopened. Social distancing is encouraged, but not mandated, masking is widespread (because it’s in our culture since SARS), but not mandated. Disinfectants are everywhere. And people are way more tolerant with each other than I’ve seen elsewhere (Britain and the US mainly). We have no “Karens”…
Things are now pretty much back to normal, but we practice extreme vigilance, with an obsession about testing and tracking.
There are plenty of lessons for others to learn from us.
But I guess we’re “China adjacent”, and these days China = bad, so no-one talks about us. [Self-pity emoji]

PS: Comparative info re Lockdown stringency vs infection/death rates .

29718 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Peter Forsythe, #326 of 716 🔗

I’ve added that link to my favourites. I use such information all the time in arguments and linking to the source is invaluable. Thank you for the research.

PS I mention HK as an example for *not* locking down.

29723 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Peter Forsythe, 2, #327 of 716 🔗

Patting myself heartily on the back, I have pretty much mentioned Hong Kong and your splendid Professor, coronavirus expert John Nicholls, non stop, no doubt causing extreme boredom in others.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/health-wellness/coronavirus-expert-says-the-virus-will-burn-itself-out-in-about-6-months/679415

https://www.accuweather.com/en/health-wellness/higher-temperatures-affect-survival-of-new-coronavirus-pathologist-says/700800

Given that he had no idea that the virus had crossed over to humans possibly as early as mid September 2019 (that Cambridge University (Prof Peter Forster) had not yet taken place) his 06 Feb assessment has stood the test of time well.

Are flights to Hong Kong from the rest of China banned, may I ask? How much of the success is due to quarantine, would you say?

We are looking forward to welcoming Hong Kong citizens to this country. We need them very badly indeed, particularly any gifted leaders.

We seem to be a bit short of those.

29868 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #328 of 716 🔗

So we shut down everything for the common cold (see first link above.) Now tell me there isn’t a hidden agenda.

29734 ▶▶ steve, replying to Peter Forsythe, 5, #329 of 716 🔗

Is it possible for you to find out how the deaths are counted. One of the reasons the Uk is high up the media driven death pool winner lost is because the doctors here were told to could everyone with a cough and having CV19

29715 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 36, #330 of 716 🔗

Only yesterday, a young mother grew tearful as she told me that her placid three-and-a-half-year-old son has become incredibly aggressive. “He says he wants to go to nursery. He shouts, he hits his face.” Her husband, a scientist, is trying to work from home, but he can’t cope. There are millions of families like theirs.
Alison Pearson – today in the Telegraph.
I now just feel contempt for our leaders.

29724 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mike Smith, 36, #331 of 716 🔗

I was speaking to someone yesterday whose 99 year old mother was admitted to hospital after a fall. She was told she couldn’t accompany her (very confused and disorientated) mother to hospital.

Yesterday, trying to get information on her mother’s condition it took her several hours to get to speak to someone. She said to me that she hoped the staff “were taking care of her properly …”. She is out of her mind with worry because her mother didn’t understand why she had to go to hospital on her own.

Really, is this what we have come to? A devoted and caring daughter can’t be with her elderly and frail mother. This is sad beyond words …

29744 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to kh1485, 22, #332 of 716 🔗

This government and NHS are a disgrace. I think they are trying to drive us all to drink or madness or both!

29757 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella Donna, 20, #333 of 716 🔗

I know. This lady’s mum is blind, she had just shattered her collar bone and she is confused and these bastards wouldn’t allow her devoted daughter to go to hospital with her to provide comfort and reassurance.

How those implementing this cruel policy look themselves in the mirror each morning, I do not know.

29777 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to kh1485, 11, #334 of 716 🔗

Too angry to write anything coherent in reply.

29834 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 3, #335 of 716 🔗

Which hospital, kh ?

29847 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, 3, #336 of 716 🔗

Addenbrookes in Cambridge …

29849 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 8, #337 of 716 🔗

Who, I heard yesterday, tested 10% of their staff – 1,000 -over a wide cross-section of staff and only 2 tested positive and they were asymptomatic!

30019 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 3, #338 of 716 🔗

It was always a horrible dump. My elderly father was treated vilely there. Lots of ‘world-beating’ research, zero patient care.

30072 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 1, #339 of 716 🔗

Really sorry to hear that. My mum was in Broomfield – that too is a horrible place …

29942 ▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to kh1485, 8, #340 of 716 🔗

In Australia they won’t allow anyone to go to hospital and visit loved ones unless they have a flu innoculation (that has been shown to make Covid worse). These are elderly people alone fending for themselves. Madness.

30017 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 4, #341 of 716 🔗

And this is the vile devil that the sheeples worship.

30071 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 3, #342 of 716 🔗

I know. And are also quite willing for the economy to be ruined for …

30015 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #343 of 716 🔗

It’s weeks since I felt anything else, except in the case of First Sinister Drakeford, for whom I feel a boiling, blazing, murderous hatred.

29721 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #344 of 716 🔗

I think its safe to say that visitor attractions are also committing suicide. Who will want to do a day out with rules like these?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53070380

29731 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #345 of 716 🔗

Why bother going? It won’t be pleasant or fun 😡

29732 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 14, #346 of 716 🔗

I work in the museums and heritage sector and believe me measures like this will ensure that people will boycott us just as they are boycotting the shops.

29740 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #347 of 716 🔗

It is so sad. Part of me feels I SHOULD go just to keep museums and art galleries open, but in all honesty I genuinely feel I’ve had all I can take now after months of this and just want to sit in a corner and cry. Though perhaps if the majority of us do boycott shops, museums, attractions etc. the government will be forced to think again about these measures. Or rather, they will simply announce that the measures were only “guidelines” and the attractions didn’t actually have to follow them 😡

29756 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 8, #348 of 716 🔗

I love going to museums and art galleries and would love nothing more than to go now if only to escape the monotony of being at home and my dreadful neighbourhood. However I have my principles and would boycott them as like with shops, I do not want to be treated like a Biblical leper but a proper human being.

Though perhaps if the majority of us do boycott shops, museums, attractions etc. the government will be forced to think again about these measures.


That’s what I’m hoping. If the Great British Public boycott shops, museums, heritage sites, visitor attractions, etc then the heads of these businesses and institutions would find the cojones to pressure the government to end this insanity now.

29864 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #349 of 716 🔗

Unfortunately – and I speak as someone who works in the arts – if you go you are playing right into the hands of the government’s agenda. They want you compliant and accepting of the new ‘rules’. Resist.

29878 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, 3, #350 of 716 🔗

Exactly. I work in heritage and as much as I love going to museums and heritage sites I’m not going. It would be problematic once my workplace opens but have decided not to go elsewhere.

29737 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #351 of 716 🔗

I certainly won’t be going, fuck ’em.

If they want to swallow a couple of packets of paracetamol, I’ll pour the vodka to wash them down. 👍🏻

29771 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #352 of 716 🔗

I so agree: it feels like I am being driven to violence. Much more of this insanity and I might get there!

29762 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #353 of 716 🔗

However we need to get the message out that we boycott places due to the nonsense rules and not because we are afraid.

29765 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Victoria, 8, #354 of 716 🔗

I agree. I think it was CarrieAH’s suggestion the other day that if retailers insist on us using anti-bac gel and implement other infringements, we just say “no thanks, that’s a pity, I will just go elsewhere”. Let’s see how long they treat customers like pariahs then.

I hate shopping at the best of times but I would far rather line Jeff Bezos’s pockets than be treated in the way I have been over the past weeks.

29770 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 8, #355 of 716 🔗

That’s what I’ve said in my letter to Waterstones and my reply to the British Library survey. I think we’re not alone, I’ve come across comments below news articles where people have said that they’re boycotting the high street because of the nonsensical rules.

29728 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #356 of 716 🔗

It’s been extended to end August in Gulag Wales. My old man is getting a supply of bricks ready to throw at any Labour canvassers next year!

30152 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #357 of 716 🔗

So some people have been locked in their houses since March and will stay licked in them till August.
I was formerly under the impression that a six-month or more sentence was for a fairly serious crime.

29735 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 32, #358 of 716 🔗

Thinking of posting this on my FB page – what do you think, anything to add/take away?:

I’ve been thinking about the word ‘apathy’ in light of the events that have occurred in this country since March.

Apathy means behaviour that shows no interest or energy and shows that someone is unwilling to take action , especially over something important .

Consider the following important things:

We’ve endured a total lockdown based on results from astronomically wrong Imperial College modelling and following the example of a Chinese communist dictatorship and without proper parliamentary scrutiny and seemingly without following the science – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Ministers and scientists have repeatedly lied to us or misrepresented data and facts – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Despite evidence that the elderly and vulnerable needed the most protection they were neglected and people were even discharged to care homes – we’ve remained largely apathetic

People have been forced to inhumanely die alone without their loved ones and then have draconian restrictions placed on funerals – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Weddings, etc. have been cancelled, shattering hopes and dreams – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Places of worship have been forced to close, with it being illegal to gather together – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Thousands of lives have been unnecessarily lost and endangered (many more than have died with Covid19) due to missed diagnoses, suicide and fear of going to hospital – we’ve remained largely apathetic

A state of fear and panic has been cultivated by the government and the media through misleading news stories and headlines and propaganda and fear mongering resulting in untold anxiety and psychological damage – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Education has been undermined and exams have been unnecessarily cancelled – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Teachers, health workers and emergency services have been unnecessarily burdened with extra work and worries – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Face masks have become compulsory on public transport despite the health risks that they pose – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Supermarket workers have largely evaded the virus, further evidence that it’s not as bad as we’ve been told – we’ve remained largely apathetic

We’ve been controlled and conditioned to believe that we’re in the midst of a great threat – we’ve remained largely apathetic

Our civil liberties have been curtailed – we’ve remained largely apathetic


The list goes on and on!

In short, we have been subjected to repeated, gross injustice, negligence and incompetence that affects every single person in the UK – every single person – yet we’ve remained largely apathetic!

Wake up from your apathy and slumber Britain!

29741 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Moomin, 11, #359 of 716 🔗

Seriously I think Boris is mad!

29743 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #360 of 716 🔗

He is certainly appearing that way now. I wonder if his brush with Covid actually did affect his brain.

30160 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, #361 of 716 🔗

I think he blagged his way to PM, then it was revealed to him what a puppet he is in whats actually going on here. If he truly is a libertarian, he may well be broken.

29767 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella Donna, 9, #362 of 716 🔗

He is certainly making me mad. An appalling scoundrel for whom a very special place is being prepared in Hell!

30161 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #363 of 716 🔗

He’s certainly a scoundrel.

29748 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Moomin, 1, #364 of 716 🔗

Hear, hear!!

29760 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Moomin, 7, #365 of 716 🔗

During this lockdown many older people in care homes died from dehydration – family no longer there to help and not enough carers to make sure they drink fluids.

29769 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Moomin, 4, #366 of 716 🔗

Go for it, Kevin. Sums up the bonkersness perfectly!

29863 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, 2, #367 of 716 🔗

We are being played, and no-one gives a damn.

29872 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 2, #368 of 716 🔗

I know. Other than my little ‘bubble’ (sorry, couldn’t resist that) of lovely regular customers, no-one seems to be showing any wish to rise up against this crap …

30163 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 1, #369 of 716 🔗

We do – and a handful of others but the numbers are growing.

29845 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Moomin, 2, #370 of 716 🔗

OK. But perhaps add specific things we could be doing. I guarantee people will do them.

29887 ▶▶ matt, replying to Moomin, 6, #371 of 716 🔗

Very good.

It’s the apathy that I think is going to lose me friends here. Many, many of my friends completely see through all of this, but just don’t seem to care. I can’t understand. How can you know that the whole thing is a hugely destructive mistake and not care? If they were actively supportive of the lockdown and thought it was a good idea, I think I could forgive them, but just to not care…?

29736 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 26, #372 of 716 🔗

New Zealand puts Covid-19 quarantine in hands of military after border fiasco
Prime minister says release of two overseas arrivals without being tested ‘should never have happened and it cannot be repeated’

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/17/new-zealand-brings-in-military-after-covid-19-quarantine-fiasco

2 cases! This is what we would could look forward to after “eradicating” the virus. Perpetual fear and paranoia lest the deadliest virus known to man comes back.

Meanwhile people are dying in far greater numbers from other causes. I’ve said it before but it needs to be repeated. People who think “one death is one too many” are a danger to the human race.

29745 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Nobody2020, 16, #373 of 716 🔗

New Zealand is another country that has a totally bonkers PM.

29761 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to CarrieAH, 6, #374 of 716 🔗

It seems that the politicians’ virus is spreading and there is no cure.

29795 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #375 of 716 🔗

It’ll be Martial Law next. ‘Woke’ liberals like Jacinda Ardern seem all to happy to imprison their own people while condemning authoritarian regimes elsewhere!

30011 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to DJ Dod, 4, #376 of 716 🔗

I have a friend in NZ, formerly a courageous woman who re-made her life after going totally blind in her twenties.
She us now a twitching wreck who dare not stir from her house even though the bug has supposedly been ‘eradicated’.
That’s what fear porn does to you.

29738 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 16, #377 of 716 🔗

Copied from Simon Dolan Criwd Find site

Our second victory
Late on Friday afternoon, 3 minutes before their deadline expired, the Govt filed with us their defence against our claim. All 58 pages of it.

We will publish the whole thing on the site shortly, but the main story is that we have finally exposed that the whole schools shutdown was a lie. The Govt have admitted that they had no legal basis to close schools, and that they simply ‘recommended it’.

This was something we suspected all along. The Govt says is is nonsensical for us to say that schools were closed because they remained open for key workers and there had only been a ‘request’ that schools should shut their doors to other pupils, yet the PM announced on March 18th that “schools will remain closed until further notice”

This is really quite an extraordinary lie, and one which never would have come out if we hadn’t started this Judicial Review.

The Government lies? Who knew?

29739 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, #378 of 716 🔗

An edit button would be good Toby!

30006 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #379 of 716 🔗

And so say all of us, with typos.

29742 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 29, #380 of 716 🔗

Let’s declare this pandemic over and get on with our normal lives – Karol Sikora
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/17/declare-pandemic-get-normal-lives/

We must prepare for the worst, but we can hope for the best. A second wave is not impossible. But so far, our gloomy epidemiologists have been wrong on virtually everything.

We can’t sacrifice decent healthcare, our children’s education and continue to blow the economy based on their apocalyptic predictions. Our frightened politicians dance like puppets under the spell of a large committee of discordant advisors. We need far stronger leadership to get us back to the old normal. There is simply too much at stake.

Every past pandemic, from ancient Greece through to the Black Death in medieval Europe only ended when society said it was so and started returning to normal. This time, too, we have to move forward carefully, but confidently.

29746 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #381 of 716 🔗

I know he’s not perfect – are any of us – and he has his detractors, but honestly Professor Sikora does often come across as a sensible, down to earth guy. The only problem is that he is using common sense, which our politicians completely lack as they are just hung up on votes and being popular.

29755 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #382 of 716 🔗

Little chance of this though; FatBoJo is MUCH too busy giving away tax-payer’s money every time a Leftie virtue-signaller says somebody doesn’t have enough of something or other.

There are days when I wonder if there is any solution to the so-called ‘Conservatives’ other than extreme violence!

29805 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #383 of 716 🔗

Smart guy. It has been clear to me from day one that he is a full on sceptic but has had to gently coax people around. He’ll get there

29749 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #384 of 716 🔗

This is an interesting Twitter from Brazil:

https://twitter.com/AOECOIN/status/1272712575537438720

29766 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Awkward Git, #385 of 716 🔗

Reminds me of the empty hospital in New York some weeks ago . . .

29856 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #386 of 716 🔗

The problem with this thread is that the instigator puts it down to a communist plot but in the UK it is the Tories who are implementing it. Now, I know a lot of them are thick, Littlecock, Pratell (sic) but they’re not that thick. So who actually is pulling the stings here? I have been saying for weeks that this is an opportunist power grab on the back of a virus, but if it is even worse and a huge hoax then who is ultimately behind it? .

29946 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bella, 4, #387 of 716 🔗

That’s what I want to know as well – who is behind it? Too many countries with too many politicians who may be highly educated but are complete idiots following the same script to be them all taking individual action so someone must be giving them orders.

Same when they all read the same script for anti-smoking, new green deal, global warming, anti-drinking alcohol, anti-diesel, anti-petrol, pro-vaccine, air pollution is killing us all and so on.

It’s always the (add in your favourite theory here – aliens, communists, capitalists, Conservatives, labour, Greens, socialists, Russians, Trump, Gates, Khazarians and so on – whatever is the one for your country/region).

To me it’s either blatantly obvious and in the open (Bill Gates and George Soros) or something really machieavallian, hidden, twisted and convoluted and I cannot decide what.

29750 Biker, replying to Biker, 25, #388 of 716 🔗

People whom are running this show don’t know how to make money hence they think we can all sit around on our arse’s doing fuck all for ever. They don’t know how to make money, they don’t know science, most of them are illiterate, in fact i can’t think why any of them are in power. What good do they do? We are a nation of people under the control of useless tossers. Ignore their laws and fuck the lot of them

29758 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, 8, #389 of 716 🔗

I’m with Biker!

29773 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Biker, 2, #390 of 716 🔗

You are too much of a softie, Biker!

29775 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to IanE, 2, #391 of 716 🔗

is that right?

29803 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Biker, 4, #392 of 716 🔗

Just a joke! ;-}

I am fully on-board with you.

29826 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Biker, 4, #393 of 716 🔗

Imagine you in parliament giving those idiots both barrels then chasing them out into the mobs gleeful embrace so we can film their Tiktok Tyburn jig

29879 ▶▶ Marion, replying to Biker, 2, #394 of 716 🔗

George Orwell wrote that Britain was like a family with the wrong members in charge. Nothing changes, unless to get worse.

29754 Nobody2020, 2, #395 of 716 🔗

Song suggestion, not sure if it’s been suggested before:

Suspicious Minds by Elvis Presley

We’re caught in a trap
I can’t walk out
Because I love you too much baby

We can’t go on together
With suspicious minds (suspicious minds)
And we can’t build our dreams
On suspicious minds

29763 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #396 of 716 🔗

Listen to ‘More or Less’ on Radio 4 right now…….

29774 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #397 of 716 🔗

i’d love to but i couldn’t stand to hear the smug voices of the people who read the noises out on that channel

29796 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Biker, 4, #398 of 716 🔗

while i agree that the BBC news output is (along with the rest of the MSM ) is complete sh1te “More or Less” is actually a damn good programme and generally doesnt follow the BBC party line, and has provided some good analysis

29764 Nobody2020, 5, #399 of 716 🔗

We are stuck in a self-made trap and things like this will be what keeps us in it:

Tory councils warn coronavirus second wave could bankrupt local authorities
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/17/conservative-councils-warn-covid-19-second-wave-could-lead-to-bankruptcies

There may or may not be a second wave.

If there is we’re trapped until a vaccine is found or the virus is eradicated.

If there isn’t we’re still trapped because of the fear of a potential second wave.

29772 Biker, replying to Biker, 30, #400 of 716 🔗

Just had this morbidly obese fat fuck tell me in the CO-OP that i walked by him too close on my way to the till. He was wearing a face mask so i felt it was my public duty to help keep people safe that maybe he didn’t know but Obesity causes cancer, heart attacks, stokes etc and will kill you so this idea that your fat ass wearing a mask will keep you safe is bullshit. I suggest you deep fry your mask put it on a roll with some tomato sauce and eat it for all the good it is doing you. The very fat lady on the till didn’t look best placed when she scowled at me disapprovingly. So i joked with her the bizarre nature of obviously very fat, unhealthy and unfit people suddenly being concerned about their health. I went on to say to her that it must be a real worry for people like him and you to know that the virus is killing very fat people more easily than normal sized people. She didn’t like that either.

29778 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Biker, 12, #401 of 716 🔗

Yes – I increasingly feel that I am being driven to tell the useless, paranoid, ill-informed sheeple just what they are. Yesterday, also in a co-op, I unleashed a few words at one of them and felt close to physical violence for the first time in a very long time.

29939 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to IanE, 2, #402 of 716 🔗

What is it? With the co-op i mean.

Their staff seem to be the most brainwashed. Inluding the ‘managers’. Same experience in *multiple* co-ops.

Fucking karens!

29812 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Biker, 1, #403 of 716 🔗

Well done

29825 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Biker, 1, #404 of 716 🔗

Ooh you are naughty! I can imagine your day could end up like that great film Falling Down!

29877 ▶▶ Marion, replying to Biker, 16, #405 of 716 🔗

Last week I asked a middle-aged man walking towards me on a county lane why he was wearing a mask outside. He said ‘Why not?’ I told him because they are useless and he was fear-mongering. He said, ‘Oh ok, ok.’ Then I walked on and a woman saw me walking towards her many yards away and starting walking backwards with her pushchair. I said, it’s ok, I haven’t got this stupid virus and she said that she was in infection control and that she had been polite to me (she had a face on her like a smacked backside). I said that if she was in ‘infection control’ (?) then she should know how this virus was spread. A few yards further still I saw my neighbour and I burst into tears. He said he would hug me if it weren’t for, well, you know the virus….I cry quite a bit because my daughter lives in Paris with her new born son and I have no idea when I will see them. I just feel that idiots behaving like this with their idiotic masks and their idiotic side-stepping is making it even more difficult for things to get back to normal.

Today on my dog walk I noticed that the council have put up a notice, not very big and quite above eye-level, warning the reader to keep 2m apart from others. Now they do this, after all these awful weeks! Why? It’s a labour council, burning through the tax payers’ money, not realising that there won’t be so much to burn soon. I loathe them, in fact at the moment I loathe everyone except for all of you posting on this site.

Also today two short chunky police women coming out of the village butchers (a shop that makes everyone queue outside with little bollards keeping the sheep apart whilst a young woman wearing a welder’s mask (that’s what they look like to me) directs them in. I will never shop there again). Anyways, these police women were not, of course, keeping 2m apart, and waddled off to their police car with their big bag of pies. I wanted to stick two fingers up at them. Hatred and loathing are taking over my heart. Sorry for this long rant.

29893 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Marion, 8, #406 of 716 🔗

I’d hug you Marion, I’d hug anyone in emotional distress.

This inhumane regime is really pissing me off 😡

29906 ▶▶▶▶ Marion, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #407 of 716 🔗

Thank you 🙂

29964 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #408 of 716 🔗

Me too! Shame on your neighbour …

29966 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Marion, 5, #409 of 716 🔗

No need to say sorry Marion. I’m becoming a bit of a misanthrope myself. Hadn’t realised before how many truly ignorant, obnoxious people there are in the world.

30189 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, 1, #410 of 716 🔗

Have you been in the comments section of the Torygraph? Ugh!!!

30005 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Marion, 4, #411 of 716 🔗

Most of those notices are only stapled on, and can be ripped off very easily. They are laminated, but you can use the staple holes to get a purchase, and rip the notice apart. Alternatively, carry nail scissors to cut them up. Dispose of the remains in a dogshit bin.Try it. It’s therapeutic.

Don’t lose heart.Up with us!!!

30054 ▶▶▶▶ Marion, replying to annie, 5, #412 of 716 🔗

Not Stapled as it is a metal lamp post, but tied on with thick plastic ties, too high for me to reach, although I did have a look to see if it could be easily removed. I think they thought of that. I have in the past taken down planning applications that have been left on lamp post for months and months, becoming yellow and unreadable. No one takes ownership of the eyesores, they are all over our village. Can’t see many going up in the future when no one can afford new windows or whatever. But thank you everyone for your kind words. I am becoming resigned to not seeing my daughter and grandson for some time and haven’t cried for a little while. Did however tell a man in the long, slow queue for Boots (I had to pick up a neighbours prescription again) that this was all a hoax. He looked at me as though I am mad. Well, I am, mad as hell.

30187 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marion, 1, #413 of 716 🔗

The councils have been given grants. I suspect the time is coming to an end and they are forced to use them.

30001 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 5, #414 of 716 🔗

Biker, you are a breath of air.
Don’t know how ‘fresh’ you want to be…?

Yesterday I told a lad in a mask that he looked like a sick pig (which he did).
He looked nonplussed.Obviously not a accustomed to such language from old bats like me. But there’s going to be a lot more of it where I come from.

29776 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 1, #415 of 716 🔗

The petition ( https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/315979 ) currently stands at 7419….

29780 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Fiat, 2, #416 of 716 🔗

Signed

29841 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Fiat, 3, #417 of 716 🔗

Signed ages ago. Why oh why aren’t more people signing it? Why are the masses just rolling over and accepting destruction of their lives? Makes me desperately sad and depressed.

29779 paulito, replying to paulito, 11, #418 of 716 🔗

From the newspaper La Razon, The European Parliament’s Petitions Committee decided yesterday to investigate whether restrictions imposed by the Spanish government during the state of alarm violated the rights of the Spanish people. Expert in international law, Professor Fernando Lozano Contreras, argues that the state of alarm does not permit the infringement of the right to work, freedom of businesses to function and the rights of citizens to gather and protest. The legal basis for denying these rights is covered by a state of exception rather than the state of alarm imposed by the government. When asked about the implications of this at an international level he said that organisations charged with the protection of human rights must be careful to avoid measures taken to deal with a health problem like corona virus becoming “an excuse to unjustifiably and disproportionately violate or limit rights and freedoms”. He goes on to say that when legal means are exhausted at a national level cases can be put before international organisations, such as the European Court of Human Rights or the United Nations.

29783 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to paulito, 11, #419 of 716 🔗

In Portugal we had a similar situation – we first had a State of Emergency, which must be declared by the President and approved by the Parliament, which in theory allows the restrictions such as curtailing freedom of movement and right of assembly. But then it was “downgraded” to a state of calamity, which in the opinion of most constitutionalists allows no such generalized restrictions and can be used only in limited regions (for instance, if there was a fire or a flood). However, most restrictions continue and no one seems to care.

Also, if you want to travel to the autonomous regions of the Azores and Madeira, you are now forced to quarantine for 14 days and / or take a COVID test, which has effectively established an internal border in Portugal, and is most likely unconstitutional.

29794 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to jrsm, 8, #420 of 716 🔗

We’ve managed to create a state of calamity over here in the UK – more of an upgrade for us, we were doing fine before 23rd march

29861 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Major Panic, 3, #421 of 716 🔗

Fine up until the 23rd apart from the complete tools clearing the supermarket shelves.

29801 ▶▶ IanE, replying to paulito, 7, #422 of 716 🔗

William Pitt the Younger, from a speech he gave
in the House of Commons on the 18th November of 1783:

‘Necessity is the plea for every breach of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.’

29977 ▶▶ annie, replying to paulito, 4, #423 of 716 🔗

Human rights?
Only illegal immigrants have those.

29781 Simon Dutton, replying to Simon Dutton, 5, #424 of 716 🔗

Excellent and penetrating summary of the scandal so far and the crumbling/reshaping of the narrative:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/17/audio-the-collapse-of-the-covid-1984-narrative/

Whatever happened to “flattening the curve”? Anyone remember that?

29804 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Simon Dutton, 4, #425 of 716 🔗

turned out flattening the curve was too easy – its all about the ”Rrrrrrr” number now

29782 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #426 of 716 🔗

Written by a 12 year old. A brilliant, and incredibly insightful short story:

https://shortfictionbreak.com/the-isolated-kingdom/

29818 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Sarigan, 3, #427 of 716 🔗

That’s an amazing story, good to see a child that can see through the lies.

29819 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, 3, #428 of 716 🔗

That’s brilliant and goes to show that there is hope with our young.

29790 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #429 of 716 🔗

Realised why the young (under 30 to me as I’m getting old) are generally so unquestioning and dopey.

A generalisation I know as there are some youngsters who do question etc and are wise to it all so to these people continue questioning and making a nuisance of yourselves. Don’t become a social media sheep but stay a goat (If you have ever raised goats you’d know what I mean – sheep are ordered around and lead, goats are individuals and have to be convinced to do what you want).

I looked at the exams they are taking after 12 years of education, what an eye-opener. They are, to put it bluntly, pathetic and full of propaganda and indoctrination.

This is a link to the AQA website where you can find the exam papers from previous years.

https://www.aqa.org.uk/find-past-papers-and-mark-schemes

I knew modern education was and but didn’t realise how bad it had become.

29798 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #430 of 716 🔗

Agree. It is our duty to guide our own children to question facts and make an informed decision. Start them young.

29808 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #431 of 716 🔗

I was told quite a number of years ago that those studying English Literature don’t even have to read the whole text. Not sure how you understand a work of literature if you are not expected to read it in its entirety.

29975 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 4, #432 of 716 🔗

You read a potted summary, and download your essays from a cribbing website.

30103 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to kh1485, 4, #433 of 716 🔗

Until recently you could also take the books with you into the exam, whereas ‘in my day’, we had to learn by heart any quotes that we might want to use in our exam essays!

29820 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #434 of 716 🔗

“If your plan is for one year plant rice. If your plan is for ten years plant trees. If your plan is for one hundred years educate children.”— Confucius

the left seem to have a longterm plan…

29900 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #435 of 716 🔗

i recall a few years ago my daughter was taking gcse’s and had past papers.. I looked at quite a few and i reckon i would have got good grades in all of them .. and this is just from basic knowledge. Then i think back to my o levels and how difficult they were by comparison..

30104 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, 1, #436 of 716 🔗

Exactly! I was once covering for another teacher and for fun decided to attempt a GCSE Spanish reading comprehension paper. Ok I am a linguist, but I was able to pass it even though I have never studied Spanish!
I’ve also tried other subjects and can easily pass them just through common sense, general knowledge and some life experience! What’s that they say now, ‘Common sense isn’t very common any more’!!!!

29934 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Awkward Git, #437 of 716 🔗

Here is why. This is a question and the answer from my child’s April Fools Day homework:

29997 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to daveyp, 1, #438 of 716 🔗

It was trusted in those days.
Long sgo.

30051 ▶▶▶ Marion, replying to daveyp, 3, #439 of 716 🔗

I always thought that there was a horrible BBC smugness about that film, as though they believed that ordinary people in the U.K. didn’t eat foreign food and so they could easily be made monkeys of using the excuse of a harmless April Fool Joke (such ‘jokes’ are often a bit nasty, in my opinion).

30070 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Marion, 2, #440 of 716 🔗

Very much like a public school joke, to mock someones class.

30100 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #441 of 716 🔗

Yes, also a while back I chatted to an 17 year old (who was doing Maths A level) and happened to remark on some aspects of Maths that I did not enjoy when at school myself. He looked quizzically at me and said ‘But I thought you said you stopped doing Maths at 16?’ ‘Yes, that’s right’, I replied, whereupon he said ‘That can’t be right though; those topics are part of A level maths’!!! Just a little example of what has happened in education over time..

29792 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 24, #442 of 716 🔗

I’m once again fascinated and perplexed.With the Marcus Rashford/food voucher issue Boris and his assorted clowns have once more caved in to a populist narrative. Wouldn’t it have been more sensible to ease the ridiculous social distancing in schools, get all the pupils back and scrap the summer holidays (whilst honouring pre-booked vacations for parents and teachers). No doubt we would have had protracted howls of protest fron the blob but this would have put the govt on the front foot for once and been an opportunity to get things moving. Doing the right thing isn’t always popular but caving in to every single social media trend is no way to govern.

29797 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to LGDTLK, 6, #443 of 716 🔗

Agree, even Hancock jumped on this bandwagon and included it in his latest televised speech. Vomit!!

29800 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to LGDTLK, 15, #444 of 716 🔗

The schools should be back by now. Every single child, every single day. Two weeks later – no spike – right, EVERYONE back to work

29799 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 19, #445 of 716 🔗

Great joy watching Royal Ascot on TV yesterday as a race finished and the camera switched to a shot of the two lasses (grooms) who looked after the winner, they grabbed each other in bear hugs, face masks pushed onto their necks, unadulterated joy. It will have given the lockdown zealots heart attacks to watch.

Other than that Ascot is a very sad imitation of what it should be 🙁 No crowds cheering and having fun, everyone decked out in face muzzles – though many people had them pushed under their noses and many jockeys push them down completely when actually racing. The masks are clearly just there to tick a box to allow racing to restart – what happened to common sense and assessing the real risk. Jockeys are pretty much all under 40, all very skinny and all very fit – probably the lowest risk group you can get.


29809 ▶▶ IanE, replying to The Spingler, 6, #446 of 716 🔗

I’m just surprised that racing has not yet been banned – after all, EVERY event has a winner and losers!

29928 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to IanE, 3, #447 of 716 🔗

Racing had to restart as Ikea had re-opened at the same time, so where else would the get the meat for their meatballs from?

30098 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to The Spingler, 1, #448 of 716 🔗

If football can go ahead without spectators, then why was Wimbledon cancelled? Is the TV revenue not high enough? Or are the players psychologically dependent on being constantly clapped and cheered? Genuinely interested in the thinking behind this..

30114 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 1, #449 of 716 🔗

Wimbledon was cancelled because cancelling became a virtue signal.

Incidentally, the Wimbledon 2020 memorabilia that had already been manufacture is making a tidy sum of money. And the All England Lawn Tennis and Croquet club was insured to the eyeballs, so they’re just fine.

29810 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 20, #450 of 716 🔗

So the Premier League restarts today no fans,no handshakes,no ballboys and worst of all no names on the back of shirts replaced by the name of an organisation that advocates for defunding the Police and judicial system, emptying prisons and radical redistribution of wealth, if you ever needed proof of how thick wealthy football players are there it is I expect they will be chuffed to bits to share their fortunes out and carry on playing for the same income as everyone else if said organisation ever got power, as someone who held a season ticket for 25 years up until 2 years ago I’m done with it they can shove their virtual signalling where the sun don’t don’t shine

29814 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #451 of 716 🔗

There will be a 1 minute silence for all the “victims” of COVID-19 too.

29823 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to tonyspurs, 3, #452 of 716 🔗

How are they going to keep 2m apart when tackling? One rule for one etc…..

29927 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to smileymiley, 4, #453 of 716 🔗

They can tackles each other and grab hold of each other whilst the ball is in play, yet stupidly they have to observe the 2m social distancing rules when they celebrate a goal!!!

Fucking ludicrous!

30014 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, 1, #454 of 716 🔗

Won’t be a problem for your guys … 🙂

29831 ▶▶ paulito, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #455 of 716 🔗

Saw a sign the other day that said something like It’s not football that has returned but

29835 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to paulito, 8, #456 of 716 🔗

Sorry, Pressed post before I’d finished. It’s not football that has returned but profiteering. They don’t care about the fans as long as they continue to rake it in from TV revenue and marketing.

29816 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 4, #457 of 716 🔗

Sky & BBC news propaganda is depressing obvious to me now I’v started to flick over to RT to be indoctrinated by Russia’s propaganda.

Is the western media propaganda so far from reality that RT are using facts (in their western coverage) for their propaganda?

Crazy idea for crazy times…..

We need an agenda/activism free news channel – there currently isn’t one!

29873 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #458 of 716 🔗

LOL – RT currently discussing…British public trust in news falling in last 5 years

I’v been heard!!

29821 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #459 of 716 🔗

“Forced” to shield? I might be wrong but I thought it was advisory, not compulsory, at least according to a shielder I know (who was, naturally, ignoring the advice). Not that the government would want anyone to know that. Another piece of advice that has been presented as compulsory but turns out not to be the law?

29833 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #460 of 716 🔗

Yes indeed, guidance not law but presented by government and media as if it were law. I wrote to the BBC about this, just got a reply (usual boilerplate crap, not engaging with arguments I made) which was basically saying “no we didn’t” without giving reasons.

Just like the 2 metres thing – guidance not law.

29897 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #461 of 716 🔗

Good point. I was also under the impression it was ‘advice only’.

30134 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #462 of 716 🔗

I was thinking the same.

29828 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 15, #463 of 716 🔗

I have just witnessed something so disheartening. Two elderly ladies (one having to walk with two sticks) trying to get out into our takeaway seating area and being treated like pox-ridden amoebas by two young women (this went far beyond just giving someone a bit of room to get by). You can guess which party is slathering themselves with anti-bac gel …

29832 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to kh1485, 8, #464 of 716 🔗

Oh dear! and yes, we’ve noticed, as oldies, how many young people treat us as if we’ve got the plague. I can only assume it’s social media telling them that all old people have ‘got it’ and if they come near us, they’ll die. Profoundly depressing. Meanwhile, thanks for your sane posts and for sticking to your guns with your business!

29843 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #465 of 716 🔗

Thanks, doing my best …:)

And … you can guess which party was talking about wanting to get back to their Tai Chi classes, which made me smile as one of them could barely walk. But I thought “good on you …”!

30027 ▶▶▶ Felice, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #466 of 716 🔗

Actually, I don’t think it is that way round. My feeling is that young people are terrified of giving the plague to oldies! They think they are doing their ‘civic duty’ and ‘protecting the vulnerable’, even though not all oldies want to be protected.
Might I suggest that you ask them why they swerved – were they frightened of you or did they not want to frighten you?

29829 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #467 of 716 🔗

I wonder what the UK’s “true deaths” number is by now.

San Diego says their’s is 6 out of 194 so about 3% – so was the lockdown worth it there?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/san-diego-supervisor-says-only-6-of-194-coronavirus-recorded-deaths-pure-coronavirus-deaths

As more people speak out the narrative falls apart except for in the minds of Bill Gates, our idiots in charge, the establishment and councils.

29839 ▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #468 of 716 🔗

The problem is, the fewer lives lost, the more lives “saved” by the lockdown 3% of 41,000 is 1,230 (interestingly – that’s not a million miles off the number that we know to be current deaths with _only_ Covid on the death certificate). However, 500,000 minus 41,000 is “only” 359,000, but 500,000 – 1,230 is 498,770.

“My timely action putting you into lockdown saved nearly half a million lives”

29882 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, #469 of 716 🔗

Sorry – 459,000. Failure of typing, rather than maths.

29903 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to matt, 2, #470 of 716 🔗

It all reminds me of when I was doing a job in India.

before starting operations the Hindu priest came to the office an performed a pooka to bless the job.

Absolute disaster from start to finish due to poor planning, bad engineering and so on and us operations guys and major struggles to get ti all done properly but we did in the and – over budget and over time of course so it was all our fault.

Up comes the 2nd phase and here comes the same priest.

After the ceremony I had a chat with him and asked him why did we do this a 2nd time when last time the job as a shambles.

His answer – “just think how worse it would have been if I hadn’t of done the ceremony”.

29974 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #471 of 716 🔗

Yes, it’s the Elephant Powder Syndrome.
Man seen scattering powder in London streets. Is asked why.
‘It’s to keep the elephants away.’
‘But there aren’t any elephants in London.’
‘Shows how well the powder works, then, doesn’t it?’

29925 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #472 of 716 🔗

Looking at the 90.4% with 2-3 other illnesses on the death certificate, it’s most likely between 1 – 4,000. I’d estimate that in total though it’ll be less than 2,000.

What we do know though is that the Lockdown itself has caused nearly 20,000 non Covid-19 death now of people up to week 23 of this year.

29830 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #473 of 716 🔗

The ban on gatherings of more than 6 people in London, linked to by Toby leads me to make the following observations:

* Whatever is behind the BLM protests, it has provided the Govt a great reason to shut down all legitimate protest and people gathering in the same place. Note that they are still peddling the ‘serious and imminent threat to public health [] posed by the incidence and spread of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus”, It will be interesting to see what happens this weekend!

* Look at the photos in this report (also on the Express w/s):

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1296721/Boris-Johnson-dfid-international-development-aid-foreign-office-merge-anne-marie-trevelyan

Notice anything? No muzzles, no 2 metres distance (‘could be the camera angle 🙂 ) They know it’s all bollocks and, no, ‘Boris’ is not going to wake up and sort it out. This is the plan, this is the future. We are getting screwed down tighter and tighter by the day and they will carry on as normal.

*Unless I’ve really gone senile, I can’t find much else online about this new ‘law’. Is it not getting reported? Even the Govt website doesn’t see to show it but I haven’t looked at Hansard.

29837 ▶▶ Julian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #474 of 716 🔗

Gatherings outside your household group were made illegal on March 23rd under the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350

At some point you were then allowed to meet one other person, and then up to 5 from another household, which is where we are now.

The law referred to is just the latest amendement which I think was the one from June 1st, but was only laid before parliament on the 15th

The government has been issuing decrees which have legal force in advance of them being approved in parliament, as it is allowed to under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 becuase of the “emergency”.

IMO it’s a non-story, and has NOTHING to do with the BLM or counter-BLM protests. The BLM protests are certainly continuing and will not be stopped by this government, ever.

29880 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Julian, 1, #475 of 716 🔗

Thanks; your reply and Matt’s post (below) clarify that it was actually a ratification of an exisitng rule.

However, I don’t agree with how it will or won’t be used against protests (BLM or otherwise). My guess is that application of the law will be selective.

29884 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #476 of 716 🔗

Sorry, read your last sentence again! I agree it won’t be used against BLM protests.

30224 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #478 of 716 🔗

UK Column covered this today. Fake news c/o the Express, apparently:
Here’s the link: https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-17th-june-2020

29836 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #479 of 716 🔗

FFS!

Boris Johnson crushes hopes of early end to quarantine PM Boris Johnson has indicated that there will be no early end to the UK’s mandatory quarantine for people entering the country.

https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=bvT_T_bm&w_id=37656&news_id=2043132

29838 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 7, #480 of 716 🔗

Well I suggest we row accross the channel in rubber dingies and claim asylum in France – on the basis that we can’t go to the pub!

We could warn anybody in dingies heading in the opposite direction of the tyranny that awaits them.

29840 ▶▶ sunchap, replying to Sarigan, 5, #481 of 716 🔗

Wow Boris and Jacinta Ardern are equally stupid!? Just shows how the “left” and “right” have merged?

Jacinta today apologised for letting a person fly in to NZ to attend a funeral and then test positive. (As not tested by a bureaucrat who forgot). Who cares?

Attending a funeral should be a human right.

29854 ▶▶▶ Marion, replying to sunchap, 15, #482 of 716 🔗

Al (Boris)Johnson was never on the right. He is an unprincipled globalist idiot and this faked crisis is showing him up for who he really is- if anyone had the slightest doubt remaining after all the green foolishness earlier in the year.

29867 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to sunchap, 3, #483 of 716 🔗

Boris isn’t left or right – he’s of the ”Boris” wing

29899 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to sunchap, 4, #484 of 716 🔗

FatBoJo has never been on the Right – indeed it is questionable, between him and Blair, who is further Left.

29842 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 6, #485 of 716 🔗

If i take an empty van down to south of spain, spend a week or two negotiating over the purchase of a box of oranges, and return to the UK to sell the oranges at market….

Would I be exempt from quarantine in both directions?

30094 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 2, #486 of 716 🔗

You can bet that all politicians will be exempt..

29848 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Sarigan, 11, #487 of 716 🔗

I fail to see how I am importing the virus if I am coming back from a Greek island with zero virus cases. This is literally a deal breaker for me as I need not only to go and see my aged family before one member dies, but also to sort out my residency papers over there. I don’t have time to quarantine when I get back, before I have to return again! I have really had enough of Johnson and Patel’s nonsense. They are beyond all hope. I am never voting Conservative ever again.

29862 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #488 of 716 🔗

o’leay and the other airlines are laying on loads of flights to europe – I think that they are relying on Britain not being a nation of bed wetters and saying ‘fuck it’ to the quarantine, defeating it with numbers.

Just get on a flight to Greece, take the risk – Here’s a little secret to get out of UK quarantine – put your name down as Micky Mouse, and make your address Buckingham Palace – that should keep them off your trail

29973 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, 2, #489 of 716 🔗

Aw, it will be a nuisance to Her Majesty if the police keep knocking on her door asking for Micky Mouse.

30226 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #490 of 716 🔗

As long as she’s wearing a mask and jumps into bush when you arrive.

29855 ▶▶ steve, replying to Sarigan, 6, #491 of 716 🔗

I’m Surprised I’m this hasn’t been flagged as a class war issue.
Basically if you have a nice over seas job you are exempt. So if you are doing lots of flying all over the world that’s ok.
But you want to take your family to Benidorm = Verboten

29860 ▶▶ Lou, replying to Sarigan, 3, #492 of 716 🔗

Getting depressing this now ! I would love a holiday this summer but just looks like more and more unnecessary restrictions are being put in place !

29901 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #494 of 716 🔗

Yes, but what’s the betting it will then have to be cleared by Sage and implementation to begin on Sept 30th, if it is at that point judged ‘safe’ to do so!?

30095 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to IanE, #495 of 716 🔗

Just in time for when schools go back, thereby preventing anyone going on holiday than..

29844 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 1, #496 of 716 🔗

If NHS ‘Test and Trace’ says SELF-ISOLATE, pay and travel works like you’re ill.

The UK’s NHS ‘Test and Trace’ schemes are all now up and running. If you’ve been in close contact with someone who tests positive, you may be told to self-isolate for 14 days. If so and you can’t work from home, here’s what you’re due…

  • Employee earning an average £120+/wk. Statutory sick pay (SSP) of £95.85/wk, though if your work normally offers more generous sick pay, you may be able to get that.
  • Employee earning under £120/wk. If you already claim universal credit, log in to your online journal, update your details and your award should be boosted in line with your drop in earnings. If you’re not already claiming, apply for universal credit and if you need cash urgently, request an ‘advance’ payment.
  • Self-employed. You can apply for universal credit as above, though what (if anything) you get depends on your costs, savings and income.
  • With regards to travel, if you’re told to self-isolate – which means you can’t go on holiday – you should be able to claim on your travel insurance (if it covers coronavirus, as most got pre-March do) as if you were unable to travel due to sickness. See self-isolation travel insurance help .


PS: Quarantining on return from travel abroad? You can’t claim SSP or owt else over and above the normal.

Money Savings Expert Money Tips newsletter today 17/6/20

29846 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Victoria, 6, #497 of 716 🔗

They won’t say ‘SELF ISOLATE’, because I won’t pick up the phone 🙉

29852 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #498 of 716 🔗

Exactly.
I was told this is the number they call you from.
0300 013 5000

It could be wrong but I’ve filed
It in the phone as don’t answer just in case!

29888 ▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to steve, 2, #499 of 716 🔗

Block it instead, then you don’t have to even think about it.

29969 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to smileymiley, 1, #500 of 716 🔗

I did think about it but want to see if anyone actually does call from that number.

29859 ▶▶ Lou, replying to Victoria, 2, #501 of 716 🔗

Is there anyway not to be involved in this ? Not sure I really understand how it will work TBH if anybody know and would be happy to explain I would appreciate it – I do not want ppl contacting me forcing me to self isolate ! 😊

29869 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Lou, 1, #502 of 716 🔗

I’m going to direct my number to an answering service

29874 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Lou, 2, #503 of 716 🔗

There’s no law forcing you to self isolate, at present, though ministers have said they may consider one, presumably if compliance is low.

I guess your options are:
1) Block the number
2) Don’t answer
3) Answer, say you’ll isolate then don’t
4) Answer, say you won’t isolate
5) Answer, say you’ll isolate and do

I can’t imagine there’ll be any comeback on (3), and on (4) you’ll probably go into the stats as someone who said no

I tend to think that information is good, so if a friend of mine tested positive or had pretty suspicious symptoms I would want to know about it, and consider my position, based on my own health, what contact I had had with that person and what contact I was likely to have with others. If I had it, I would tell people who I had come into contact with myself. All of this is basic common sense and common courtesy and what most of us would do, without government help.

I am not sure what value the government adds to this. Do they try to track down the person who sat next to you on the bus? How on earth would they do that?

I am also not sure if the caller is at liberty to say who it was that came into contact with you. That would annoy me – I would want to know so I could evaluate how much contact I had and what the risks were.

29957 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 1, #504 of 716 🔗

Person on the bus will be traced via mobile phones. No phone, not traced. They will not be saying who the infected person is.

29993 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 1, #505 of 716 🔗

Switch off your phone while on any form if public transport.

29998 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to annie, 1, #506 of 716 🔗

The GPS on a modern smartphone still registers your position even if the phone is turned off. You would have to take the battery out to stop this. I just carry an old Nokia with PAYG sim now if I go out into the public domain.

30091 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to CarrieAH, #507 of 716 🔗

Really? Did not know that…how can it do that if the phone is off?

30230 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #508 of 716 🔗

Battery …….

30229 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #509 of 716 🔗

Apparently, you can’t just remove the battery from an iphone – they’re soldered in!
Old Nokia sounds like the new must have!

30090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, #510 of 716 🔗

Good idea!

30237 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #511 of 716 🔗

Just found this. Where to now??
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/06/17/contact-tracing-app-will-not-ready-winter-admits-health-minister/
Britain’s delayed contact-tracing app will not be ready until winter and “isn’t the priority at the moment”, a government health minister has said.
Lord Bethell, the Junior Health Minister, told MPs of the Science and Technology Select Committee the contact-tracing app was not the focus of Test and Trace’s efforts.
When asked for an exact date, he added he was “managing expectations” by saying winter, although said the government had not scrapped the app and still planned to launch it.
He told MPs:  “We are seeking to get something going for the winter, but it isn’t the priority at the moment.”

29850 Threepartslogan, replying to Threepartslogan, #512 of 716 🔗

Interesting article on Inproportion2 website

http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/case_trends_13jun.html

29857 ▶▶ matt, replying to Threepartslogan, #513 of 716 🔗

Yes, it is interesting, but it’s sort of not relevant. While it’s true that the more testing you do, the more cases you’ll find, it’s also true that the absolute number of cases (not necessarily in proportion to tests) is more important in terms of working out the degree to which the thing is in the community.

29865 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, #514 of 716 🔗

Yes but you can only estimate the absolute number of cases by dividing the number of positives over the number of tests and extrapolating that to the whole population. So ratio of positives to tests (and in what population) is the only figure anyone should ever be quoting.

29870 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 2, #515 of 716 🔗

Yes, but the tests are only covering a distorted picture of the population anyway, since they cover 1) people who believe they might have symptoms and 2) a smaller number of random population sampling. Because of 1) the actual proportion of positives will be skewed towards suggesting higher infection numbers. But if you discount 1 and only use the results from 2 then you also need to answer the question of what proportion of people are asymptomatic to the extent that their infection won’t be picked up as a positive test.

29968 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to matt, 1, #516 of 716 🔗

Well Said. I’ve had this discussion with a few lockdown zealot neighbours.

Right from the start the ramp up in deaths and recorded infections was

a) changed rules almost guaranteeing everyone in hospital who died (Of anything ) with an CV infection because and statistic
B) more testing just mean more cases discovered. A self fulfilling exercise.

The peak infection Date was end March before lockdown started. This has been infered from an estimated 3 week incubation period before symptoms. From the Peak deaths occurred 8th April.

This is so early on this is more like the peak of recording of the deaths because we were Actually looking for it.

If the virus was around October/nov/ dec then the peak was actually back then.

The assumption we were clever enough to actually start testing and catch the peak is rubbish.

29851 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 14, #517 of 716 🔗

When I saw Toby had pointed out that he wrote his first sceptical piece on 31 March 2020, I could not resist the temptation to point out that I wrote my first sceptical piece on 20 March 2020. https://viewsandstories.blogspot.com/2020/03/coronavirus-mortality-and-fear-mongering.html
When this madness is all over, I suspect many people who were all in favour of the lockdown measures will suddenly re-write history and will never have been in favour of the draconian measures.

29954 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #518 of 716 🔗

We’re saving all the photos people send us of them in masks. My favourite so far is a Milwall FC one …

29853 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 22, #519 of 716 🔗

I’ve got to the point now, with no end in sight, if anybody engages with me, out of work, with anything do with the measures to combat the war on the Chinese Killer Virus, I will, politely, ask them to fuck off and die.

29858 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Winston Smith, 18, #520 of 716 🔗

Me too. As pensioner and a lady, I never really thought I’d become a criminal, but this lot are fast making me break every rule they dream up. Had enough.

29972 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #521 of 716 🔗

Wholly agree.I used to be a peaceable and law-abiding individual. I’m now a habitual criminal ( in Wales you are one more or less if you breathe without permission) with an abiding hatred of the police and a lust for revolution.

29898 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Winston Smith, 10, #522 of 716 🔗

Yes – I reached that point yesterday in the co-op, although my natural politesse stopped a bit short. I am now feeling very, very close to boiling point. There is quite clearly a large powder-keg building in society now. I don’t think it will take much to cause detonation.

30067 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to IanE, 2, #523 of 716 🔗

Just one tiny spark…

29871 Mark, replying to Mark, 10, #524 of 716 🔗

“A new law was waved through Parliament late last night, banning gatherings of more than six people ,”

So was this law in force between 1st June when it was posted on the legislation.gov website as the “current” version of the regs, or was it not law until the Commons had voted on it?

If it was not law, then presumably the law was the previous version of the regulations, which was even more draconian (and enforced as such against anti-lockdown demonstrators), stating:

6. —(1) During the emergency period, no person may leave [ F8 or be outside of ] the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.

and:

7. During the emergency period, no person may participate in a gathering in a public place of more than two people

So this big announcement is clearly just misleading spin, to try to make people think there has been some change to the law making demos illegal. And while I might like something that reduces the prevalence of these noxious BLM mobs, I still would prefer media people who decline to engage in promotion of misleading government spin, on principle. Was the purpose to try to make demonstrators think again, or to protect government and civil authorities from criticism of their willful failure to respond to BLM mobs, by making people assume they didn’t have the power to do so until now?

This kind of manipulative propaganda played a large part in enabling the whole coronapanic.

30243 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #525 of 716 🔗

UK Column showed this was fake news today. I thought it was odd that the other papers hadn’t covered it.

29875 TJN, replying to TJN, 17, #526 of 716 🔗

Following Monday’s post describing my visit to the local market town here in deepest Devon, this morning I’ve been to the nearest city. Similar scenes to Monday, except worse. At a guess I’d say that fewer than half the shops were open. Crazy and scarcely comprehensible one-way markings and signs everywhere, and loads of hand gel. Few people about. Lots of germ-rebreathers (i.e. muzzles). Don’t these people care about their health? Although I think a fair few of them are hospital drama Walter Mittys.

Of course, the shops can’t possibly go on like this. Ironically, I guess the ones that are closed are doing better, as they are actually losing less money (no staffing costs and reduced bills).

But we down here in the South West must be the exception, as we read and hear about how busy shopping centres in the rest of the country have been.

Loads of buses, most of which were empty. And the one train I saw, as far as I can tell, had no one aboard its four carriages except the driver.

The one good thing is that Hotel Chocolat had loads of stuff at half price, as the sell-by dates are nearing. Presumably they have to either sell it at a loss, or bin it.

On Monday’s post I offered my congratulations to Boris and Hancock and the others for all their efforts in bringing this about. On reflection, I should extend my compliments to all of our MPs, who have been almost without exception entirely complicit in all this. It’s nice to forget party politics for a while, and pay homage to the lot of them.

Yet, of course, special mention must, as always, go to Hapless Hancock. This morning on the Today Programme he was sounding even more smug and supercilious than usual. And who can blame him? After all, he’s been absolutely central to the development of that new steroid treatment for covid patients; and it’s largely down to his efforts and sagacity that we are, at last, ‘beating the virus’. Well done Matt! Hopefully you’ll have time for a shopping trip soon.

29895 ▶▶ IanE, replying to TJN, 4, #527 of 716 🔗

The thought of Hancock ‘beating his virus’ is not a pleasant one!

30063 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TJN, 1, #528 of 716 🔗

New batteries for the Duracell Bunny. Cloth-eared with stuffing in between.

29876 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #529 of 716 🔗

Re: the sunset clause. The Coronavirus Act 2020 Part 2 Section 90 gives the government the power to alter any power and extend any provision by ministerial fiat.

29881 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #530 of 716 🔗

I feel like that little rabbit in Watership Down that could smell the oncoming danger but everyone ignored
All us troublesome types will be fed to the pigs as part of the final solution – the rest will end up as morlock foder
I’m learing the lyrics to ”Owwww Jeremy Corbyn” – I may be able to blag being one of them

29883 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Steve Hayes, 11, #531 of 716 🔗

We should all remember that the law was passed without a vote, so every MP from every party supported this. I would save none of them.

29894 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 2, #532 of 716 🔗

Yes indeed; I keep thinking of that schoolboy ditty (slightly editted) : –

Build a bonfire, build a bonfire,
Put the MPs on the top,
Put the teachers round the middle
…..

29904 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Julian, 28, #533 of 716 🔗

A law that had the effect of:

the suspension of juries,
the cancellation of elections,
the suppression of the right to freedom of expression,
the denial of the right to assembly,
the suspension of the right to protest,
the limitation of the right to engage in legitimate economic transactions,
the removal of the right to receive or refuse medical attention,
the limitation of the right to freedom of movement within the country,
the limitation of the right to practise religion,
the suspension of the right to an education,
the violation of the right to family life,
the denial of the right to a livelihood,
the institution of a police state by giving the police and others the right to detain indefinitely on mere suspicion,
the removal of the right to privacy,
the undermining of the rule of law.

And not one MP objected.

29909 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #534 of 716 🔗

Yep, it’s going to a inexorable slide into a totalitarian regime. I was telling my friends, relatives and work colleagues this in March I read the proposed coronavirus bill.

I’m scared and depressed.

29932 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Winston Smith, 9, #535 of 716 🔗

We are not sliding into a totalitarian regime. It is already here. And the vast majority are completely in favour. The Coronavirus Act 2020 is our version of the Enabling Act 1933. The difference is in Germany there was some organised opposition. Here there are only isolated, unorganised voices of dissent – and the government and the tech giants are busily shutting down dissent.

29995 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #536 of 716 🔗

That doesn’t help ☹

30099 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #537 of 716 🔗

I reckon it does. To solve any problem, ascertaining the facts is usually a great first step.

30061 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #538 of 716 🔗

I was laughed at on Guido in March for suggesting this. Now I don’t especially believe this will happen under this government (some believe it already has). However, our laws love precedent, and that precedent for dictatorship is now set.

30068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #539 of 716 🔗

This is a point I’ve made – the courts need to speak so that the precedent is expunged.

29971 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #540 of 716 🔗

The above ought to be pasted on every noticeboard, billboard, hording,
website and other conceivable location in the country.

30007 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to annie, 9, #541 of 716 🔗

One of the ironies of this madness is the spectacle of the bishops all supporting the lockdown measures and the violent, non-social distancing Black Lives Matters protesters. According to the bishops, people going into a church to pray is far, far too dangerous, but people gathering in thousands to destroy property, hurl missiles, beat people up, attack police and horses is entirely good and completely safe.

These people are destroying satire.

30145 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #542 of 716 🔗

Yes, they are beyond disgusting. Bishops who don’t believe in God but do believe in woke.

30249 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #543 of 716 🔗

I knew it was bad but it looks so awful when you spell it out like that.
Because it is awful!!

29892 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Steve Hayes, #544 of 716 🔗

Oh dear: yet more worrying info.

30056 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #545 of 716 🔗

If this doesn’t scare you, it should. The last Act that I’m aware of that bestowed this kind of power on a government was the 1933 Enabling Act in Germany. The benificiary? One A. Hitler, leader of the NSDAP. That Act also had a “sunset” clause (of four years), and was duly renewed in 1937 and 1941.

Just sayin’.

30087 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Hayes, #546 of 716 🔗

Mason Mills wrote yesterday that it would take a new Act of Parliament to repeal the ban on gatherings of more than 6 (ie that there is no sunset clause).. But maybe that is because they are also using another law, the Public Health one, for some of these actions?

30245 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, #547 of 716 🔗

I had a feeling there’d be a catch.

29885 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #548 of 716 🔗

Eminent sceptics and by this I mean Professor Dingwall, Lord Sumption, Suneptra Gupta …. have all gone a bit quiet, haven’t they? I was hoping we were approaching the kairotic moment for lockdown scepticism

29889 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #549 of 716 🔗

They probably don’t get much of a platform. I don’t know much about Dingwall. Sumption said he would rather others better placed, like serving politicians, took this up, but sadly none have. Probably also feels he’s said everything he wanted to say. Gupta is a scientist and possibly feels she shouldn’t be waging a single-handed campaign, but again that others better placed ought to take this up, at which point they could call on her for support.

29891 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #550 of 716 🔗

Uptick for ‘kairotic’! Had to look that up.

29982 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to IanE, #551 of 716 🔗

As Moloko sang: The Time Is Now

29886 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 12, #552 of 716 🔗

Sorry, can’t resist telling you this. Just got someone in who is wearing one of those 3m masks. Doesn’t look all that vulnerable to me – more a “oh, look at me, I’m doing this for your benefit type” Anyway, she wafts in, in her floaty dress all “oh, I don’t suppose you do gluten-free do you?” – we don’t. “Oh, I’ll have a weak coffee then” And then, one of my regular customers comes in and says “have you seen that woman, she’s only wearing bloody leather gardening gloves” And then, she takes her mask off and goes and has a fag … (perhaps she thinks that smoking will minimize her risk of catching the virus!).

29890 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 6, #553 of 716 🔗

Of course she is right about smoking, though you won’t ever hear that from the MSM or politicians. Personally, I hate being close to smokers and see very little positive about it, BUT covid-protector it clearly is!

29905 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to IanE, 1, #554 of 716 🔗

I always assumed that by the time smokers reached 70+ or had aquired severe medical conditions they had packed in smoking – hence so few smokers dying of covid19

29911 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Major Panic, 3, #555 of 716 🔗

You know what they say about assumptions, Major … Puff puff.

29922 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to JohnB, 4, #556 of 716 🔗

He He – i recently got intouch with someone i’v not seen for over 10 years – when I said who I was he said ”Ah, John the fag” – I had been a heavy smoker back then – well I think thats what he meant…

29923 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Major Panic, 2, #557 of 716 🔗

Funny about smokers – smoking was the cause as to why disproportionately more men than women died of Sars especially in China. But with this Covid 19 its different.

30050 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, 1, #558 of 716 🔗

Or else died from other smoking-related diseases before they reach the required age to die from covid?

29896 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 2, #559 of 716 🔗

Yup it does, very early on an Italian doctor said (sort of) mama mia it’s funny smokers seem to be recovering a lot quicker than non-smokers.
Then a recent French study found the same thing.

29913 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to bluemoon, #560 of 716 🔗

There was a French senior doctor who prescribed vapes to some people. Pitié-Salpêtrière I think it was.

29991 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #561 of 716 🔗

Sorry, unclear. Pitié-Salpêtrière is the hospital.

29967 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to bluemoon, #562 of 716 🔗

Perhaps it’s psychological: they are used to defying dire predictions, so they don’t die of Covifright?

30256 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #563 of 716 🔗

Or only the robust ones remain?

29907 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 13, #564 of 716 🔗

I have seen several interviews with mask wearers who admit they don’t think it makes any difference but they are happy to do it if it makes other people feel safe !,it doesn’t make me feel safe,quite the opposite,it is sinister and shows how unbelievably stupid a lot of people are.Have you noticed how most mask wearers have an air of superiority about them ?,that’s the impression I get anyway.

29908 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 10, #565 of 716 🔗

It’s not just the air of superiority but its also patronising. If I saw someone in a mask, I would not feel safe but would run away thinking that they’re wearing it for some nefarious reason.

My sister posted a photo of herself wearing a mask on social media. I was tempted to comment “virtue signalling twat” but for the sake of family harmony, I simply looked away.

29912 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #566 of 716 🔗

A few weeks ago waiting in my car in a supermarket car park I saw three people get out of a car with large empty bags who then pulled black winter type scarves up over their faces and I thought,now they will get the ‘shooters’ out of the boot !,well it amused me.

29921 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 4, #567 of 716 🔗

LOOOL!!! That made me laugh, thanks a lot!

29914 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #568 of 716 🔗

Post one back of you wearing a snorkel

“Just doing my bit to keep you guys safe #safesnorkelers” or some such bs

You should get off fb by the way. Like giving up television you’ll feel much better very shortly afterwards

29919 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to anon, 1, #569 of 716 🔗

Hahahahaha!! Am sorely tempted to buy one of those plague doctor masks off the internet.

I’m barely in it now anyway and same with Instagram – its simply a waste of time, I mostly use it for the messaging function now.

29930 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #570 of 716 🔗

Agree with you both (Paul & Bart), it’s the moral superiority that gets me too. Plus, it was very difficult to understand what she was saying. The situation was straying very close to one of those Two Ronnies -type sketches! And when she pulled on the leather gardening gloves well …

30022 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 4, #571 of 716 🔗

I get some masked people give me strange looks and I stare back at them. I gave one woman at M&S a manic grin and she looked away quickly probably thinking I was psycho.

30032 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #572 of 716 🔗

I might try that! Just got a WhatsApp message, we can rest assured in our town as our local bra shop has done a risk assessment and it is now safe to go there!

30131 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, #573 of 716 🔗

Its effective. They think I’m bonkers but they don’t know that I’m laughing at them.

30025 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 2, #574 of 716 🔗

Fork handles

30258 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 1, #576 of 716 🔗

Oh I think I’d have made a really big deal of not hearing her because of the mask – especially given the nature of her orders!

29926 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Paul, 2, #577 of 716 🔗

There’s a lot of trashing of mask wearers going on, calling them stupid etc, and while I agree with that assessment I must say that IMO a large proportion of the population seem to be enjoying the situation hugely.
This is the most exciting thing that’s ever happened to them. Better than anything on Emmerdale or Corrie.

29979 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to bluemoon, 2, #578 of 716 🔗

The beige fuddy duddies are living their best lives in the shadow of the ‘rona.

29990 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to bluemoon, 4, #579 of 716 🔗

they are stupid 😇

30096 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to bluemoon, #580 of 716 🔗

Peak Mask Moronification

30097 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to bluemoon, #581 of 716 🔗

They all have bit parts in the hottest movie of the day !

29953 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Paul, 5, #582 of 716 🔗

I’m currently watching the televised racing from Ascot. Jockeys, trainers and stable staff all wearing masks. I’ve never seen anything so ridiculous in my life. The jockey has more chance of being injured or killed falling off the horse. Frankie dettori parading around in his designer mask 😵 and the amount of propaganda spouted by the presenters and pundits about social distancing and the need to wear masks is making me feel quite Tom n’ dick. It can’t be healthy for an athlete to be riding a horse wearing a cloth mask.

29915 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #583 of 716 🔗

Side effects of Dexamethasone are pretty gnarly:

https://www.drugs.com/sfx/dexamethasone-side-effects.html

29989 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Sarigan, 1, #584 of 716 🔗

all drugs have side-effects

30008 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #585 of 716 🔗

And the full list is always pretty gnarly

30013 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to matt, 3, #586 of 716 🔗

Some of those side effects is why you take them drugs in the first instance

29929 PD, replying to PD, 35, #587 of 716 🔗

Hi Toby
It’s looking like the Lockdown is unraveling quite quickly now. The beach is rammed, huge queues for fish and chips and ice cream. Kids and families playing in the sea, dogs all over the beach as there are no jobsworths on duty to enforce the dog restrictions. Things are starting to look much more ‘old normal’. No face masks can be seen anywhere on the beach, a few are still being worn by the timorous in the dismal queues outside of the bargain stores.

Thank you for your sterling work over the last few months, you have genuinely kept me sane with your research and updates. I am very eager to receive my LS mugs that I ordered as I would like to use them to drink a toast to the end of lockdown, which I can sense is imminent.

I will of course drink a toast to your good health.

Best of British!

30023 ▶▶ IanE, replying to PD, 2, #588 of 716 🔗

I hope you are right, but I will not be holding my breath!

30040 ▶▶ Marion, replying to PD, 11, #589 of 716 🔗

But until they stop the 2m idiocy so everyone can stop queuing outside shops I don’t care how many people go to the beach – I’ve been going to a beach since day 1 of this insanity. But the queues and the masks and the pubs and restaurants being closed still is really getting to me, and I see no sign of that unravelling.

29933 Chris John, 15, #590 of 716 🔗

Apologies for the crudeness but:

29935 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 2, #591 of 716 🔗

Did Beijjing have a 1st outbreak?

29943 ▶▶ PD, replying to Major Panic, 1, #592 of 716 🔗

This needs reiterating!

29949 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Major Panic, 2, #593 of 716 🔗

This is exactly what I’ve been wondering too… No doubt New Zealand will one day have a second wave, despite never having had a first, and that will be taken as proof that second waves exist.

29936 Mr Jim McGregor, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 14, #594 of 716 🔗

Toby, can’t you start a hashtag on Twitter, namely whereisthesecondwave? As you pointed out in a recent podcast, with 300,000 demonstrating at BLM, we should now be beginning to see the rise in infections in London and elsewhere. But where is it? I think this should be raised and highlighted on daily basis.

29938 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, #595 of 716 🔗

Apparently there’s one at the KFC processing plant?

29961 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Chris John, 3, #596 of 716 🔗

Chickenshit!

29987 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to annie, #597 of 716 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣

30055 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 5, #598 of 716 🔗

Any event involving BLM has clearly been deemed by the medical experts and the virus itself as being risk-free. There’s a BLM gathering today where I live, complete with stalls, music, other entertainment. It’s like a mini music/cultural festival, albeit socially distanced.

Remember, never vote Conservative again (for those that have done in the last) until every last one of those responsible for the mess we are in has been purged from the party.

30085 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, #599 of 716 🔗

Do you have Twitter? Please post this info (with photos if possible) to Mason Mills – he seems to be following up police forces that are not upholding the new law.

30084 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, #600 of 716 🔗

Yes! Let’s get that trending!

29941 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #601 of 716 🔗

So now that the epidemic is over, and they’ve already concluded that worse outcomes for BAME people are due to pale-skinned people’s racism (of course) they’re finally going to investigate the role of Vitamin D:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/17/uk-ministers-order-urgent-vitamin-d-coronavirus-review

29956 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #602 of 716 🔗

No doubt Hancock will take the credit should it be “discovered” to be helpful…

30009 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #603 of 716 🔗

I’d like for HandsonCock to be put in a box and ‘discovered’ in fifty years time.
He can take Boris the Spineless with him

29959 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Barney McGrew, 15, #604 of 716 🔗

This is unbelievable:

“Across the UK, as many as 750 frontline NHS staff have received free immune support packs including liposomal vitamin C, vitamin D and zinc from a voluntary initiative, and there has been some frustration that a more holistic approach to the pandemic has not been implemented.”

So NHS staff are advised to take it, whereas we the great unwashed are told it’s no good?!

29992 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to A. Contrarian, 14, #605 of 716 🔗

Being a nutritionist and clinical herbalist, I have been taking all of these since February. Plus iodine. I have been incensed by the lack of information given to the general public by the NHS medics because they have to toe the “vaccine Big Pharma” line.

30021 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #606 of 716 🔗

Aha so NHS staff given Vitamin C -D& Zinc yet when Prof Delores Cahill advised this she was accused of witchcraft

30083 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #607 of 716 🔗

Out of interest, where did that information come from? Would like to share it..

30168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, #609 of 716 🔗

Thanks!

29945 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 16, #610 of 716 🔗

From the Telegraph. More than 90 Coronavirus laws passed without proper parliamentary scrutiny.
Hopefully more fodder for Simon and his lawyers

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/17/90-coronavirus-laws-rules-imposed-without-parliamentary-scrutiny/

29960 ▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 7, #611 of 716 🔗

Go it, Simon!
And I’m sure he will.

29984 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #612 of 716 🔗

Good shout. I have tweeted this to Simon and his lawyer Francis Hoars.

29988 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to RDawg, 2, #613 of 716 🔗

Great, thank you!

30116 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #614 of 716 🔗

Bring back Bercow 😉

29948 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 23, #615 of 716 🔗

Boris Johnson to be told to scrap the 14 day quarantine and reduce the 2 metre rule by the 1922 Committee

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/17/boris-johnson-told-reduce-2m-rule-axe-quarantine-meets-1922/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

29951 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to CarrieAH, 7, #616 of 716 🔗

better late than never, but should they be telling the ventriloquist

29952 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #617 of 716 🔗

should’nt

29955 ▶▶▶▶ Invunche, replying to Major Panic, 4, #618 of 716 🔗

Cummings?

He’s probably locked up in his dads estate after reading about the Beijing “explosion” in cases.

I’m sure that he’ll soon be getting Sage to recommend another 3 months of strict lockdown.

30049 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Invunche, 3, #619 of 716 🔗

Cummings needs to step out of the shadows and explain his great plan to fix civil servants and politics issues.
At least let us hang and draw a few of them too

29958 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to CarrieAH, 31, #620 of 716 🔗

Great comment on this:

Unforced errors? Where do you want to start? (i) Not contextualising, not explaining that 1800 people died every day in the UK anyway; (ii) continuing lockdown even when it was obvious the NHS was not at risk since the Nightingsle hospitals were barely used; (iii) conflating ‘died with’ and ‘died of’ to get the numbers of dead up to justify the claim to calamity and hence the extreme response; (iv) leaping on the care home corpses as a tragedy when (a) in many cases the very old and sick finally dying is by no means a tragedy (b) being finished off by a virus is basically inevitable when you are one or all of very old, very frail, very sick – once again, as (iii) a numbers-boosting exercise; (v) continuing to claim we are ‘all at risk’ after it became totally obvious it was the very old/frail/sick who were the only ones at risk; (vi) maintaining lock-down and wage subsidy in the light of (v). Thats without thinking too hard either. Or even considering the economic calamity thats coming in on the back of all these errors.

29978 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to CarrieAH, 29, #621 of 716 🔗

Can they also tell him to open up fully…
– Schools, colleges and universities
– Pubs, restaurants, bars, nightclubs and cafes
– Gyms, leisure centres and swimming pools
– Hotels, BnBs
– Allow spectator sports to have, you know, actual spectators

Also allow everyone freedom of movement and forget this bullshit “bubble“ nonsense.

29985 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to RDawg, 19, #622 of 716 🔗

The whole thing is bullshit

30037 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Winston Smith, 8, #623 of 716 🔗

Became obvious to me this was 95% BS and panic mongering weeks before the lockdown started!

30012 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to RDawg, 8, #624 of 716 🔗

And hair dressers hair dressers hairdressers!

30035 ▶▶▶▶ Marion, replying to bluemoon, 7, #625 of 716 🔗

Dentists, dentists, dentists…they have behaved abominably, if only we could boycott them…

30064 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Marion, 4, #626 of 716 🔗

And only providing a limited selection of services! Why?! But a friend tells me “they could loose their licence to practice if they don’t comply with the regulations”. AAAGGGH

30081 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to bluemoon, 3, #627 of 716 🔗

Would love to know who has been cutting the hair of all the politicians and TV types for the last few months; Boris is about the only one whose hair looks not to have been cut for some time..

30102 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, 4, #628 of 716 🔗

Totalitarian elites rarely follow their own rules.

30052 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to RDawg, 4, #629 of 716 🔗

But lock in and deny sunlight to the wastrels in Westminster. At least until 2022

30121 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 2, #630 of 716 🔗

Basically, go back to normal. The normal normal. NOTHING ELSE WILL DO.

29962 A. Contrarian, 8, #631 of 716 🔗

The Guardian (or rather, SAGE) have excelled themselves today.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/16/dont-blame-public-for-covid-19-spread-says-uk-scientist

“The team argue that better explanations for the high Covid-19 death toll in the UK than public behaviour include lockdown being implemented too late because of under-reaction by politicians, as well as systemic problems such as poverty and other inequalities putting certain groups at risk, and failures of communication, including an early focus on self-protection rather than on protecting others.”

An under-reaction ??

29963 Mike Smith, 12, #632 of 716 🔗

Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

Psalm 37

29970 Mark, 2, #633 of 716 🔗

The leftist dream: not so much a right to bear arms, as a necessity to do so?

Seattle protest zone keeping businesses shut is ‘a sad state of affairs,’ Ari Hoffman says A friend of mine told me yesterday, who lives in the area, he says he never goes outside after 8 o’clock at night without a firearm. That’s a sad state of affairs of how he has to live his day-to-day life

29980 Mark, replying to Mark, 9, #634 of 716 🔗

A modest suggestion for US conservatives, and anyone who wants to protect liberty:

NATIONALISE, break up and sell Google, Facebook and Twitter .

In fact, announce a general policy of nationalisation of any body that purports to be a neutral platform but tries to use its power to suppress political opinions, with political opinion defined as anything that does not fall within US First Amendment rights.

This is a policy that has been used against companies that became dangerously powerful in the past, and it’s one that has a nice irony to it when used against leftists like the people who run these tech giants and seek to make effective dissent from their opinions impossible.

NBC News under fire for apparently pushing Google to remove conservative sites from ad platform

29986 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, #635 of 716 🔗

Should say “anything that falls within ” – reworded and failed to change the beginning of the clause!

30016 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 1, #636 of 716 🔗

There is an enormous failure in antitrust law and economics, pointed out by several politicians as well as academics. Interestingly, although most of these voices align with the Democrats (notably Elisabeth Warren), Mr Trump was sympathetic to calls to break up the network data monopolisers, but things all went quiet after the challenge to the vertical merger of AT&T/Time Warner failed in the courts.

If you are interested, the attached is highly recommended:

https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/amazons-antitrust-paradox


30119 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #637 of 716 🔗

An interesting read, thanks.

These issues definitely need to be a renewed focus of attention and political action in the light of the increasingly clear evidence that these tech giants, even the non-social media ones, are a very real and active force for political evil:

Amazon Doubles Down on Excluding Some Conservative Nonprofits from Customer Donations
And of course they create a huge problem of international political prejudice as well. These companies are basically the shock troops of the new globalist world order.

30173 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, #638 of 716 🔗

Thanks. Yes, they have certainly replaced the ‘too big to fail’ banks in terms of their influence over the last ten years. The dispute on digital taxes has reared its head again, with US Treasury Secretary threatening a new round of sanctions on Europe.

29996 Mark, replying to Mark, 39, #639 of 716 🔗

What do you call 10% of BBC staff losing their jobs?
BBC London to lose 10 per cent of staff in coronavirus job cull

A start!

29999 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Mark, 6, #640 of 716 🔗

I’m know imagining entering the BBC headquarters with my pick-axe handle, culling the BBC staff….

Decimation is too good for them…..

30004 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #641 of 716 🔗

Decimation is too good for them

Damn straight! So far it seems the consequences of their own scaremongering propaganda are only hitting the fringe people, contractors and freelancers.This bit tells us they aren’t suffering nearly enough yet:

no staff jobs were being cut

30143 ▶▶▶ Flyboy68, replying to Winston Smith, #642 of 716 🔗

Decimation times 10 would be an appropriate move!!!

30003 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 2, #643 of 716 🔗

Justice …

30024 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to Mark, 1, #644 of 716 🔗

Fran Unsworth is the one who should be going……and heading straight to jail.

30029 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 2, #645 of 716 🔗

A good beginning. About time they got a taste of medicine many thousands are already getting thanks to their scaremongering.

30132 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to Mark, #646 of 716 🔗

Reasons to be cheerful….

30031 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #647 of 716 🔗

comment image ?imwidth=480

From The Telegraph: “A German couple kiss as they arrive in Ibiza on a Eurowings flight from Dusseldorf. Spain is slowly reopening to tourists, and Britons could be welcomed by the end of the June. ”

Stupidity keeps achieving new peaks.

30033 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tenchy, 18, #648 of 716 🔗

That is not a picture of a German couple kissing. That is a picture of a German couple stupidly pressing their stupid masked faces against each other for reasons of stupidity.

30039 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tenchy, 4, #649 of 716 🔗

Kiss of death. Imagine the wet bacteria and fungus that built up during the long flight.

30046 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Tenchy, 2, #650 of 716 🔗

She won’t swallow either. Relationship is doomed

30060 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Chris John, #651 of 716 🔗

What haven’t they both swallowed already?

30130 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Chris John, 1, #652 of 716 🔗

wearing masks they have both obviously swallowed the misinformation that is being issued by all governments about covid and mask effectiveness

30066 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 5, #653 of 716 🔗

Er… can these people seriously not make the link? If masks actually work, then the outside layer is literally plastered in viruses which have just been extensively shared between this couple.

Are they going to keep their masks on day and night for the entire holiday?

30074 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Tenchy, 3, #654 of 716 🔗

Mask Moronification

30034 annie, replying to annie, 22, #655 of 716 🔗



Great news from the depths of the Welsh gulag! Public lavatories are being re-opened. Some of them, anyway. And you can get ice-cream and burgers and other goodies( nit from the loos, I hasten to add), so long as it’s on a ‘takeaway’ basis.

Of course, everything is plastered with stupid notices warning that approaching within six feet of any individual means instant death. But I don’t think anybody who comes to our beach believes that bullshit. I think the groundswell is beginning.

However, officially Comrade Drakeford still rules. And he’s beginning to remind me strongly of another swine of a dictator: Nicolae Ceausescu of Romania. Like Drakeford, Ceausescu gained a brief popularity by appearing to differ from the big-brother totalitarian state next door, only to institute a regime that was far worse, the most repressive in the Communist bloc: mass surveillance, abuse of human rights, economic collapse, social collapse, universal misery.
For decades, Romanians appeared to be totally quiescent under a dictator so paranoid that he had typewriters individually inspected in order to detect machines that were being used to write anti-government messages (this was before the internet, of course).
In the end, Ceausescu was overthrown by the only violent revolution in the Collapsing communist bloc, and was tried for (among other things) ‘economic sabotage’, found guilty, and shot.
So, Drakeford, watch out. Your time will be a lot shorter than Ceausescu‘s. The Welsh may be quiescent now, but that will end. And one thing is certain: the toadies and lickspittles with which you surround yourself will be the first to turn on you when the revolution comes. I hope they rend you asunder. And I hope your room in Hell will be next door to Nicolae Ceausescu’s.

30043 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, #656 of 716 🔗

I volunteer to be executioner.

30058 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #657 of 716 🔗

I’m ahead of you in that queue, man. Lady High Executioness.

30036 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 3, #658 of 716 🔗

Good to see the gov’t have their priorities right. I mean it’s not like the country has gone to hell in a hand-cart or anything is it?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53082294

30142 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, #659 of 716 🔗

Us and them. Squared!

30038 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #660 of 716 🔗

This has cheered me right up….

https://youtu.be/dS69Zq-rnoM

Watch to the end 👍🏻

30044 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #661 of 716 🔗

And this has cheered me up (thanks again Andrew Lawrence):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALESDUTTDw4

30057 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to kh1485, 1, #662 of 716 🔗

Oh man, this is priceless! ‘Change is coming!’

30073 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to kh1485, #663 of 716 🔗

Sorry, but you’re going to be ‘uncheered’ when you see this….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kEho457p0s

30075 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to T. Prince, 1, #664 of 716 🔗

I’ll get my pick-axe handle……. 🤣

30045 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Winston Smith, #665 of 716 🔗

I’d have given that fat black dwarf a rubdown with a brick if he tried that.

30047 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Chris John, #666 of 716 🔗

😁 👍🏻

30048 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #667 of 716 🔗

On the Black Mirror reference, loved this street ‘art’

30053 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #668 of 716 🔗

‘We’ve been buffooned!’ Love it!

30165 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #669 of 716 🔗

That rotund fella at the end. I think if you look in the dictionary for “mouth breather” it has a photo of him.

30042 Sir Gus, replying to Sir Gus, 11, #670 of 716 🔗

Had a text message from my GP surgery today telling me masks must be worn for GP appointments. I’m fuming. I will never wear one, I hate them and they repulse me when I see someone wearing them. I think I have Metamfiezomaiophobia.

30113 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sir Gus, 4, #671 of 716 🔗

I won’t either.
I’d rather due than wear one.

30117 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Sir Gus, 5, #672 of 716 🔗

Thankfully I haven’t bothered to see a GP in 20 years, but I wouldn’t wear one either.

30120 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Sir Gus, 9, #673 of 716 🔗

Email them back and tell them you won’t be wearing one because they are dangerous for your health and that doctors should know that and that they of all people shouldn’t be mandating them to patients.

They have a duty of care to see you if you need an appointment. We pay for their “service”. We’ve had to put up with enough shit since March. If they think they can start with this rubbish they can forget it.

30122 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sir Gus, 6, #674 of 716 🔗

Me too. I emailed them to let them know what I think. Tried to remain polite. I know it will do no good, but I feel it’s important that they know some people are unhappy about it. Obviously I will try my best not to go, as I always do. Depressing place at the best of times.

30125 ▶▶ JME, replying to Sir Gus, 2, #675 of 716 🔗

I’m afraid I am a GP: possibly thanks to pressure from the BMA, GP surgeries have been made to follow the hospital rules: the staff have to wear masks in all non-Covid secure areas as well as patients in the surgery- we are all totally against it but sadly these are our orders from on high. I must say I say to patients they are free to remove their masks once they are in my room.
I have been emailing everyone with all the mask-related links I come across on this site- probably just increasing everybody’s blood pressure!

30327 ▶▶ Sir Gus, replying to Sir Gus, #676 of 716 🔗

Thanks for the replies. My fiancee is an RGN and the rules around masks where she is don’t make much sense. For example, no masks in theatre recovery, but mask on when you walk from theatre to the exit doors.

30069 matt, replying to matt, 5, #677 of 716 🔗

Watching the press briefing. There’s something slightly chilling about the phrase “cultural renewal task force”

30077 ▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 2, #678 of 716 🔗

Whose culture are they wanting to renew?

30079 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 2, #679 of 716 🔗

Exactly!

30082 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, #680 of 716 🔗

Ours, I think.

30086 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 3, #681 of 716 🔗

That’s nice. Of course, our culture has been such a failure at almost everything, such as improving human health, happiness and prosperity, that it’s best we move on now…

30089 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, #682 of 716 🔗

Yes. But now it’s been broken and so it needs to be renewed. Also, I assume it’s racist, so we’d better fix that too.

30106 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #683 of 716 🔗

Seen Dominic Frisby’s latest song? Called ‘I’m a white man and I’m sorry’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5GHkljX-So

30078 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 1, #684 of 716 🔗

Geez…

30092 LaurenceEyton, replying to LaurenceEyton, 26, #685 of 716 🔗

This isn’t actually a comment on Toby’s piece, just a general observation.
I live in the West End of London in a flat surrounded by offices. I live on the first floor in a corner building, so have an excellent view of the first, second and third floors of buildings around me in two different directions. All these buildings are offices. They are all empty. By empty I mean, the lights are off and there’s nobody in them.
Now, according to my understanding, offices have been able to open up for a month. Guidance for safe working in offices was issued on May 11. So why are these offices still closed? One can only assume that, with furlough in place, nobody sees any reason to accelerate a return to work.
For the last couple of weeks we have seen a torrent of articles about how important it is to get kids back to school. But I have yet to see much about getting adults back to work .
I often go walking in Hyde Park or Regent’s park and both places are full of people every day. Regent’s park is packed with joggers while the Outer Circle has become notorious–and dangerous–for being crowded with high-speed cyclists. I am far from believing that all these people are unfortunate employees of the still-forbidden-to-work hospitality industry, and wondering why they aren’t back at work.
On May 12 Rishi Sunak extended the furlough scheme until October–four months away. Surely I am not the only one that thinks this was a huge mistake? Not only should the furlough scheme not be extended, but it should be ended for all categories of employment that are legally allowed as soon as possible.

30101 ▶▶ Julian, replying to LaurenceEyton, 6, #686 of 716 🔗

Well I guess it depends on what happens in those offices.

There is guidance for “safe” opening of offices BUT the overriding guidance is still that if you can work from home then you should, and also that you should not take public transport if you an avoid it.

So imagine you’re a business based in a London or other city centre office, which can function reasonably well with everyone working from home.

Do you spend time and money on risk assessments and modifications to make the office “covid-safe” and ask your staff to come in to work, wearing masks, on transport that is socially distanced, with all the unpleasantness that entails (let’s assume driving to work isn’t a sensible option), bearing in mind that the office will probably need to be half-empty anyway, and things like meetings or small group working will be more or less impossible assuming you follow distancing rules, and risk getting sued or snitched on by disgruntled employees if they get sick and feel you have not followed the rules, or do you stay working from home, for now, and hope that all this nonsense goes away, and then go back to proper normal.

I’m working from home currently, which suits me fine, but would happily to into the office now and again if the office was normal, but it won’t be so I prefer to be at home rather than travelling 3 hours a day to sit in a semi-deserted office waving at my colleagues from a distance.

Assuming this madness continues, offices like these will be the last to go back – why would the government want all of us piling onto trains and tubes and buses every day (oh other than the revenue which they don’t seem to care about, so far)?

Of course, I am talking about businesses that can function well with this kind of setup and who are more or less working normally. We’re the lucky ones. There may be firms who cannot work from home but who have no demand, or have furloughed people and want to wait and see what happens.

And possibly there are quite a few people skiving!

30109 ▶▶ matt, replying to LaurenceEyton, 11, #687 of 716 🔗

The government instruction remains “work from home if you can, travel to work if you can’t work from home.”

There are very few jobs in the service industries that dominate London office space that cannot be done remotely nowadays, and very few white collar office jobs in general, providing that the worker has access to a halfway decent internet connection (not hard in the south east of England). Even a decent phone connection isn’t especially important anymore- my desk line goes to my laptop (not that anyone ever uses it) and I could probably count the number of calls I’ve made or received on my mobile in the last 3 months on the fingers of one hand, because everything has been on online platforms.

Insurance is a problem if you ask your workforce to travel into central London on public transport (because how else would they get there?) and spend their day in an office with colleagues if there’s no legitimate reason why they _have_ to do so in order to do their jobs.

In addition, with the schools still closed, getting parents back to the office is very difficult. For example, I have been home-based for years. My wife is desperate to get back to her office (which will probably reopen within the next month or so), because she likes the office environment, and our 6 year old is back at school 2 days a week, but our 8 year old now has no prospect of being back before September. From recent experience, trying to supervise 2 children or even 1 child and get some education into them with two adults working full time in the house is very, very challenging. Doing it with one would be impossible – either I simply couldn’t do my job (so I would lose it) or the kids would be running feral for almost the whole day.

None of our UK offices are open (for example) and the UK business is working on a plan to reopen them – probably by September – following the guidelines. Following the guidelines is expensive, by the way, and it reduces office capacity by somewhere between 30-50% depending on the office layout. It also means that in-person meetings are almost impossible and in-person meetings are almost the only point of having people go to an office in the first place.

My company does have some people on furlough, but a relatively small proportion of the workforce. These people are not on furlough because we don’t have anywhere to put them, they are on furlough because the trading conditions are such that we simply don’t have enough work for them to do. They are on furlough because otherwise we will have to make them redundant, regardless of whether they’re occupying a seat in an office or a seat at home. The company wants to have as many people as possible working productively, because thats where revenue comes from.

Lack of occupancy in offices in central London is no kind of indicator that everyone who would normally work in offices in London is currently being payrolled by the government. I’m sure many are, but most of those empty desks in unlit offices you can see through the window would normally be occupied by someone who is currently working with their laptop on their knees on the sofa (the lucky few have a desk and a chair).

30112 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 1, #688 of 716 🔗

Spot on. London will be empty of this kind of worker for a fair while to come.

30147 ▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Julian, 2, #689 of 716 🔗

On a slightly different note – my daughter normally works for a regional city council in a big office building which is 10 stories high. Before covid, they were hot desking, and the queues for the lifts were notorious at busy times.
So the council has 2 big problems to solve before they get all their staff back in. First is space – apparently they can only use about 1/3 of their desks safely, the second is the lifts are inadequate. Even getting lots of people to use the stairs just can’t cope with the volume of traffic if socially distanced.
I’m not sure how many people the council have furloughed. What I do know is that lots of people have been redeployed, and many more are working from home.

30151 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Felice, 2, #690 of 716 🔗

The offices of the firm where a friend of mine works is in Tower 42 – what used to be the NatWest tower. This is a 47 storey building and it has something like 60,000 people working in it.

There are 4 lifts (not true, there are 8, but after the IRA bomb, the building is twisted, so there are 4 lifts to take you part way up and another 4 to take you further).

Each lift is now allowed to carry 4 people, with each one facing into a corner of the lift.

Can you imagine how long it would take to fill an office of 60,000 people, 16 at a time? Can you imagine how long the socially-distanced queue would need to be? By the time the last person got to their desk, it would be time to go home again. And then it would take hours to empty the building.

If this nonsense doesn’t end soon, then a huge majority of the commercial real estate in the City of London is useless.

If there’s one silver line from this thing for me, I’m just glad I’m not the primary investor in this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Bishopsgate

30156 ▶▶ Lena, replying to LaurenceEyton, 5, #691 of 716 🔗

This is my question too, and has been for the past 10 weeks! I’ve been going to work throughout all of this – I was the only member of staff at my company not to be furloughed, my workload massively increased and, although I was given the option to work at home, my terrible home set-up didn’t allow for me to do my job properly from there. So I’ve been doing my 9-5 as usual, but I walk through Hyde Park on the way back to the station and everyone else seems to be on some sort of jolly! Picnics, strolling around, queues for the ice-cream shop lately…With the furlough scheme extended my boss is under no desire to bring back the staff that we are currently saving salaries on, the staff are in no rush to come back so long as they can sit around eating ice cream on the government’s money, and I’m feeling like a right idiot!

30157 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lena, 2, #692 of 716 🔗

Lucky for you, you’re almost certainly the only employee in your company who is guaranteed not to be made redundant when the reckoning comes (assuming your company survives)

30105 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #693 of 716 🔗

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2017/12/06/tom-jefferson-the-uk-turns-to-witty-vallance-and-van-tam-for-leadership-revolving-doors/
This was written in 2017. And you can see all the names in the current pandemic SAGE group.

30107 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, #694 of 716 🔗

Interesting..

30115 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to swedenborg, 1, #695 of 716 🔗

Oh yes, the thorny issue of regulatory capture, the most obvious manifestation of which is the ‘revolving door’ between politicians/regulators, and the private firms they are tasked with overseeing. (See The Theory of Economic Regulation, George Stigler, 1971, in Bell Journal of Economics and Management Science.

It is Andrew Witty ex CEO of GSK (not Chris Whitty), but the ties to Big Pharma are loud and clear.

30118 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 7, #696 of 716 🔗

Oh this is wonderful! Today’s Matt cartoon in the Telegraoh 😂

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/matt-cartoons-june-2020/

30129 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, #697 of 716 🔗

LOL!!!

30139 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #698 of 716 🔗

If you want another laugh look at this Twitter thread – all the cabinet photoshopped as the opposite sex! https://twitter.com/DefenceDailyUK/status/1272978310058905601
Boris looks like a slightly cleaned up version of Waynetta Slob!

30146 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, #699 of 716 🔗
30148 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 2, #700 of 716 🔗

See, I hate myself now because I rather like the look of Dominique Raab.

30154 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, #701 of 716 🔗

Some are better than others and quite passable, eg ‘Pete’ Patel and ‘Janet’ Rees-Mogg. Hancock looks like the class bully (unsurprisingly!). Scroll down the thread and someone has done Dominic Cummings – he looks a bit like Laura Kuenssberg..
On the Shadow cabinet one, ‘Keeley’ Starmer and ‘Dave’ Abbott are very funny! There are more added further down the thread, Wrong Daily and Rayner are good. Yvette Cooper looks unchanged!

30153 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, #702 of 716 🔗

Sorry, meant Vicky Pollard, not Waynetta Slob..

30159 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Carrie, #703 of 716 🔗

It had me reaching for the sick bag!

30162 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to IanE, #704 of 716 🔗

Though Frances Spencer looks much better than Frank!

30166 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 1, #705 of 716 🔗

Actually, Boris looks so much like Matt Lucas that it’s hard to be sure it isn’t.

30264 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to CarrieAH, #706 of 716 🔗

Sounds like Alanis Morisette should have written a song about him.

30126 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #707 of 716 🔗

The service industries also depend on people having plenty of disposable income. Double whammy for them at this point, even if the 2m rule were to be scrapped immediately.

30127 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #708 of 716 🔗

Well said. I work in one of those sectors.

30144 Major Panic, 2, #709 of 716 🔗

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/20/peru-coronavirus-lockdown-new-cases

Lockdown doesn’t work anywhere, so why do they expect it to work in Peru

Excuses from the guardian.. .

30158 IanE, replying to IanE, 2, #710 of 716 🔗

Looky here : https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/nhs-contacttracing-app-not-a-priority-and-may-not-be-ready-until-winter-minister-says

The new ‘world-beating’ app is not important now and won’t be ready for months (you could have knocked me down with a feather!). And, guess what, it is because they are afraid it might scare the public!

30164 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to IanE, 1, #711 of 716 🔗

God help us all if this nonsense is still going to be going on in winter! They will have a lot of suicides on their hands by then.

30167 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to IanE, #712 of 716 🔗

Hope this is not because they have now decided to wait till they have caused a second wave and locked the country down again, so people will be more likely to be willing to sacrifice their privacy and download the app (Yes, know I am cynical..)

30177 Lms23, 1, #713 of 716 🔗

“Why does Chivers, who is more scientifically literate than most journalists, not scrutinise the paper more carefully? Why doesn’t he challenge the paper’s assumption that the infection fatality rate of COVID-19 is 1.0%, roughly four times the estimate of the CDC?”

I read that article on Unherd this morning, and wondered where the writer got that IFR number from. So did everyone else who commented btl. Many of the public have a better idea of the figures than the journalist, and quoted the example of the cruise ship that had an outbreak on board.
Sue Denim is not the only one despairing about the information being pushed onto the public.
Plus despite the Twitter warning from Konstantin Kisin last week, the same blatant hypocrisy regarding protesters was still on view. Ditto in the U.S.. BLM protesters good, ignore the riots and looting and murders. Anti-BLM protesters, anti-lockdown protesters bad, just call them covididiot, or racists, or whatever.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1270711803597615111
Konstantin Kisin Twitter warning.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldmi8EcKbf8
Cuomo Threatens Businesses For Breaking COVID Rules While THOUSANDS March For BLM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UoaKAqmiwEo
‘Pathological hypocrisy’ at the heart of UK race-based protests

30184 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 1, #714 of 716 🔗

UK public health bodies reviewing vitamin D’s effects on coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/17/uk-ministers-order-urgent-vitamin-d-coronavirus-review

“A delayed Public Health England review into the reasons why BAME people are disproportionately affected, which pointed to historical racism , did not review the role of diet and vitamin D.”

What? It is a well known fact that people with darker skin need more exposure to sun to make Vitamin D. So the mainly white PHE group decided that racism is the cause and due to this delay in getting the message out that Vitamin D is required many more BAME health professionals are condemned to death. What a disgrace!! Now it looks as if they are going to do a trail with vitamin D levels/supplementation – this is good. However why are they waiting before telling all BAME that they must take vitamin D supplements in the mean time to protect them? There are tons of research on vitamin D and viral infections.

Sufficient safe sun exposure normally results in the body producing 10,000 IU (250mcg) Vitamin D per day – PHE recommends 25mcg which is only enough to prevent rickets and definitely not enough for good health and fighting viral infections. It is however imperative to expose sufficient skin (face and hands only will not do), to take it with fat (fat soluble) and to have sufficient cholesterol in your body to convert it (Statin users beware). Keep in mind that sun exposure in the UK from October to March will not ‘make’ vitamin D as the sun is too low in the sky. Also people with darker skin needs to spend more time in the sun to produce vitamin D – Therefore more BAME covid deaths?

Always take vitamin D supplements with vitamin K2 and Magnesium and this will reduce the build up of calcium in the blood (when conventional medicine refer to vitamin D toxicity/dangers they refer to Calcium build up in blood). You do not want Calcium in your blood but in the bones and teeth.

It is recommended that we get a baseline of our vitamin D levels (vitamin D test) and this will then guide us on how much to supplement. Keep in mind the UK laboratories ranges are much lower than the 40 – 60 ng/mL (100 – 150 nmol/L); see my comment above. Your doctor will therefore warn you against achieving higher levels and scare you into oblivion.

If you are very deficient you will need to supplement with Vitamin D3 (not synthetic vitamin D2 that is normally prescribed by your doctor). Consider 20,000 IU per day until your levels improve and then you can reduce to around 4,000IU per day (always with vitamin K2, Magnesium).

Unfortunately Vitamin D rich foods are not sufficient to improve very deficient levels up to optimised levels.

All of the LS readers should also supplement with Vitamin D, Vitamin K2 and Magnesium.

Unfortunately the NHS is in cahoots with skin cancer charities to scare us to death about the dangers of sunlight and this results in people never getting any sunlight on their skins (indoors all the time or covered with toxic sunscreen all the time). If we are healthy/healthy nutrient levels then daily SAFE sun expose will not lead to skin cancer. Suggested resources to improve knowledge and know how to improve your levels safely are http://www.mercola.com , https://vitamindwiki.com and many others.

30190 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 2, #715 of 716 🔗

Mercola.com is a great site!

31819 John B, #716 of 716 🔗

‘… Chivers, who is more scientifically literate than most journalists.’

That implies a standard that doesn’t exist – it’s a low bar.

Why doesn’t he challenge the assumptions? It’s computer modelling: Chivers believes and defends the climate change computer modelling quite uncritically, so why would he challenge the Covid rubbish?

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285Nick Rose6, 21, 5, 12, 27, 5, 1, 7, 5, 8, 0, 9, 34, 23, 23, 12, 10, 7, 13, 19, 1, 1, 9, 0, 4, 2, 1, 4, 5, 1, 8, 2, 0
261Bart Simpson1, 3, 19, 10, 7, 4, 4, 42, 9, 0, 2, 4, 5, 9, 19, 2, 17, 16, 8, 8, 5, 1, 0, 0, 7, 14, 8, 3, 8, 1, 3, 2, 10, 4, 1, 4, 0, 0, 1
231annie14, 3, 16, 9, 0, 6, 0, 3, 5, 7, 13, 2, 3, 0, 1, 6, 14, 5, 2, 7, 6, 3, 1, 3, 4, 3, 4, 5, 1, 4, 3, 4, 5, 4, 4, 1, 6, 2, 1, 5, 3, 4, 0, 3, 7, 2, 0, 22, 1, 4
205IanE44, 8, 14, 4, 10, 30, 2, 6, 9, 6, 6, 2, 4, 12, 7, 6, 4, 3, 10, 4, 2, 0, 2, 6, 2, 0, 0, 0, 2
155CarrieAH8, 1, 2, 0, 5, 9, 5, 16, 10, 0, 11, 1, 1, 18, 14, 16, 2, 23, 5, 7, 1
150A. Contrarian829, 16, 10, 16, 3, 0, 0, 3, 2, 2, 3, 15, 1, 31, 5, 6
144kh148536, 20, 3, 8, 1, 3, 8, 4, 2, 3, 8, 15, 8, 12, 4, 3, 0, 2, 3, 1
138matt1, 3, 25, 0, 0, 10, 16, 5, 6, 10, 7, 2, 6, 1, 1, 0, 0, 2, 1, 1, 18, 5, 0, 0, 11, 2, 2, 2, 1
134Moomin12, 14, 14, 43, 14, 0, 1, 32, 1, 3
92Winston Smith8, 8, 1, 8, 6, 22, 6, 1, 4, 1, 0, 19, 6, 1, 1, 0
85Patrick593, 3, 7, 16, 6, 3, 7, -3, 2, 1, 17, 6, 8
78Carrie4, 8, 8, 3, 7, 7, 13, 1, 0, 3, 3, 0, 4, 1, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 3, 2, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2
76JohnB2, 30, 2, 25, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0, 3, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 0, 0, 0
72Stephen McMurray3717, 18
69Marion6, 2, 16, 4, 5, 3, 15, 11, 7
68Mike Smith120, 7, 36, 11, 2
68Cheezilla0, 5, 0, 4, 0, 1, 0, 6, 2, 2, 1, 1, 6, 1, 0, 1, 7, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 2, 0, 5, 0, 4, 2, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 2
67Mark210, 9, 0, 3, 39, 4
66Nobody20202, 52, 26, 29, 2, 0
65Steve Hayes14, 5, 28, 9, 9
64Major Panic28, 4, 5, 4, 2, 7, 3, 6, 5, 1, 3, 1, 4, 2, 7, 0
62Jonathan Castro2, 64, 10, 34, 5, 0, 0, 1
60Biker25, 2, 3, 30
52Julian3, 4, 5, 2, 11, 6, 5, 4, 2, 3, 6, 1
51TJN10, 1, 13, 10, 17
49Bella Donna22, 11, 16, 0
46Tom Blackburn16, 3, 15, 11, 1
44Peter Thompson44
41Farinances3, 4, 4, 7, 8, 15
41paulito2, 3, 6, 2, 3, 0, 5, 11, 1, 8
38Paul10, 13, 13, 2
38Chris John150, 4, 1, 0, 2, 3, 0, 4, 3, 4, 2, 0
37bluemoon19, 2, 2, 2, 8, 4
37Bella19, 3, 2, 4, 5, 2, 2
36PD35, 1
35HawkAnalyst0, 1, 01, 0, 18, 15
34Victoria10, 7, 1, 4, 6, 1, 4, 1
33RDawg4, 29
32tonyspurs20, 12
31AngloWelshDragon31
30Awkward Git1, 0, 1, 1, 1, 4, 12, 8, 2
30OKUK50, 6, 6, -6, -4, 4, 2, 10, 1, 1, -1, 6
28mjr21, 1, 4, 1, 1
27Allen24, 3
26LaurenceEyton26
26MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG10, 2, 8, 5, 1, 0
25Ilma2, 2, 0, 13, 7, 1
24LGDTLK24
24The Spingler5, 19
23Mimi12, 11
22T. Prince9, 10, 0, 3, 0
21ianric9, 5, 7
21A leaf5, 010, 3, 3
20Simon Dutton5, 10, 5
20Shep5, 4, 2, 9
19409617, 2
16DJ Dod10, 6
16steve5, 6, 3, 1, 1
16Sarigan5, 5, 2, 3, 0, 1
14BobT14
14Mr Jim McGregor14
14South Coast Worker14
13Peter Forsythe13
13Tenchy7, 6
12Barney McGrew12
12Emma12, 0
12Paul B4, 8
11jrsm11
11WhyNow11
11Sir Gus11, 0
11Tony Prince6, 1, 2, 2
10Andrew9, 1
10daveyp0, 2, 3, 4, 1
9Hubes9
8Sceptique8
8Will Jones8
8anon2, 6
7Schrodinger7
7arfurmo1, 6
7Melangell5, 2
6James6
6Keen Cook6
6Adam3, 3
5Lena5
5nowhereman5
5stefarm5
5sunchap5
5Felice3, 2
5Invunche4, 1
5Kath Andrews5, 0
5Lou3, 2
5smileymiley3, 2
4Ewan Duffy4
4Roger Marlow4
4swedenborg4
4ianp2, 2, 0
4Tyneside Tigress2, 1, 0, 1
3ambwozere3
3Dave #KBF3
3P12343
2BJJ2
2JME2
2Stephen Lord2
2Steve2
2Tim Bidie2
2Mark H1, 1
1Annabel Andrew1
1Fiat1
1Montag Smith1
1Nel1
1Lms2310
0BTLnewbie0
0chris c0
0EmbraFlaneur0
0Flyboy680
0GetaGrip0
0guy1530
0John B0
0Threepartslogan0
-2djaustin-3, 1

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