2020-06-18

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/06/18/latest-news-59/
Published2020-06-18T16:27:24
Last updated2020-06-19T00:29:11
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:03
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30648 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #1 of 847 🔗

Disinfection tunnel appeared at Putin’s residence

https://ria.ru/20200616/1573025088.html

30677 ▶▶ SayNoToSuing, replying to HawkAnalyst, #2 of 847 🔗

For a moment I read “Disinformation” there, though I doubt he’d want to stop the flow of that (outward). Nowadays, of course, disinformation comes not only from the kremlin but from the WHO and most western media too.

30680 ▶▶▶ SayNoToSuing, replying to SayNoToSuing, 8, #3 of 847 🔗

I, for one, am particularly concerned by all the disinformation being spread about Sweden and how the human sheep all believe, in direct disagreements with statistics from all sources, that cases numbers are still rising there.

30762 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to SayNoToSuing, 6, #4 of 847 🔗

A lot of people just read/hear a headline and believe what they’re being told BUT, now that this ‘deadly virus’ ins’t as deadly as the constant fear mongering has been suggesting over the past few months, we’re beginning to hear a lot more about the catastrophic impact that this pantomime has had on the economy. They’re coming to get you Boris…….

30894 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 25, #5 of 847 🔗

I’m becoming increasingly concerned by two things:
1) the complete lack of a sense of proportion when it comes to death. My father was a prominent cancer specialist in his day – I grew up my whole life hearing about people who had died and people who were going to die. It was pretty standard conversation at Sunday lunch (my mother is also a doctor) and I’ve always found it strange that people around me don’t understand how death is part of life – and now it’s worse. A patient once asked him, having just been given a cancer diagnosis “tell me doctor, am I going to die?” My dad replied “yes. And so am I. We’re all going to die, but you’re not going to die yet.” This is a truth that everyone seems to have forgotten. 42,000 deaths sounds like a lot. It isn’t.
2) the apathy among well educated and politically astute friends, whose attitude is “what’s the point in getting cross?” This is our country, our future, our kids’ futures being destroyed for no justifiable reason. How can you _not_ be ‘cross’?

30913 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 9, #6 of 847 🔗

Yes. I’ve had a lot of “Well this is what’s happening. What can you do about it?” Makes me want to scream!

30941 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 11, #7 of 847 🔗

I notice that the poison media, finding the daily death counts disappointing, are now hammering on the idea that whatever the cumulative Covideaths figure is announced to be, in reality it’s much worse.
Considering that the official figure is a colossal exaggeration and barefaced lie, why is nobody out there suggesting that whatever the official figure may be, in reality it’s much lower?
Aw, don’t bother to answer. I know, I know…

30973 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 9, #8 of 847 🔗

Do you? I don’t. I mean, really, even the “we’re taking control” narrative doesn’t seem to hold water at the most casual glance anymore, let alone my “they stupidly dug themselves in too deep” theory. The whole thing is such a completely obvious pile of total toxic, shambolic crap that it’s almost impossible to explain.

Yes, I’m back in that place again. I should probably go to bed. And I should definitely not have another beer

31049 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to matt, 1, #9 of 847 🔗

Totally agree Matt!

31108 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to matt, 11, #10 of 847 🔗

Why doesn’t the ‘we’re taking control’ narrative seem not to hold water? You can humiliate people and get them to behave like obedient sheep in a ‘toxic and shambolic’ way. A coup, a power grab, that is masquerading as a protectorate doesn’t have to be super efficient, it just has to have people willingly give up their civil liberties forever. Which they have done. A year ago could you have imagined a world with no spectator sports, no public performances, no sexual coupling allowed beyond the domestic unit you live in, no education, queuing for food, no socialising, and no family visits? Could you imagine dental and doctors’ surgeries being effectively closed and no access to the NHS which you’ve paid for all your life unless you show symptoms of a virus that affects less than 1% of the population? Could you imagine not being allowed to swim in the sea, or walk in the park or travelling further than five miles from your home? Could you imagine people willingly donning symbols of oppression in the vain attempt to avoid catching a virus about as dangerous to most as the common cold or, at worst, the flu? AIDS was a killer virus, a deadly virus and a death sentence if you got it in the 1980s. No quarantining or banning of sex then. No edicts closing things down so that people couldn’t mingle and infect one another. I think we have been done up like a right royal kipper and most people – sadly, infuriatingly, gobsmackingly – don’t seem to care. The statement attributed to Abraham Lincoln about ‘not being able to fool all of the people all of the time’ seems to be, in practical terms, wildly incorrect.

31138 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bella, 4, #11 of 847 🔗

Well, because – 1) if it is a coup, it’s very clever and I see not one iota of evidence in anything else that this government has done that they’re even remotely competent enough to pull it off; 2) if it is a coup, it’s a global coup, because many other countries have done very similar things – but from what I can see, the wheels are beginning to come off the government control over people’s behaviour in most of those countries as the restrictions have been lifted and people start forgetting that they should be behaving differently (masks aside, so far) and just go back to doing what they e always done; 3) speaking of the wheels coming off, that’s also beginning to happen here as more and more people are losing patience with the restrictions and more-or-less getting on with living their lives as best they can, regardless of what the law tells them they can and can’t do and regardless of what that prat Hancock tells them they can and can’t do. Not all people, maybe not most people, but more and more people; 4) if it’s a coup – and a global coup – someone forgot to send the memo to the President of the United States, because Trump has been openly sceptical of lockdown measures right from the beginning and certainly hasn’t pushed all of the red states into taking draconian measures; 5) while there has been plenty of effort put into managing the message on mainstream media, and while the social media platforms have colluded in this, there’s not much effort being put into to suppressing sites like this. Frankly, trying to secretly impose an authoritarian regime without doing away with the people who are on to you is pretty stupid; 5) if you’re trying to impose control, letting someone challenge what you’re doing in the courts and responding to the case with “they’re all just guidelines and suggestions really” is also pretty stupid.

So that’s why. And maybe it’s actually another level of clever beyond that and it’s all being coordinated by agents of the New World Order, but trust me – I know several people who regularly go to the WEF in Davos and while they are pretty self satisfied and they certainly do believe that their groupthink agenda is the way that the world should go, they’re just frankly not clever enough or impressive enough to pull this kind of thing off either.

And though sometimes, in my darker “what the hell is going on” moments, I do start to wonder whether there must be something nefarious behind it, I always think myself back into the position above.

I’m not criticising you for thinking otherwise.

31189 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 4, #12 of 847 🔗

Either we’ve all simultaneously been conned by a well-choreographed takeover of our lives, frontmanned by genuine incompetents,

OR it’s been a very bad case of mass-hysteria and we’re now finding whose governments have realised that and are putting their people and their economies first, versus those who are busy covering their arses.

If it’s the former, the puppetmasters are too clever and too well hidden ever to reveal themselves.

31207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to matt, 3, #13 of 847 🔗

No criticism taken Matt and I am very happy for you to express your counter opinion. What I like about this site is that most people are happy to debate without it being personal and resorting to name-calling (some rare exceptions). AND I would really, really like you to be right. But as far as my perspective is concerned, I have never suggested that members of a about 170 countries sat in a room together to plan something nefarious, but that the authoritarian tendencies (most governments) have seen the opportunity and grasped it with every greasy tentacle. That form of coup. If I were to use a military analogy, it’s when the armed forces switched sides in the middle of a skirmish and turned against their paymasters (the government being the former and us being the latter.) The so-called science has allowed them to put in place these draconian measures and they are scrutinising our reaction to see how far they can go. As Edward Snowden has warned, once they take away your civil liberties bit by bit you rarely get them back. There are too many agendas that want to take advantage of this – mandatory vaccines, increased surveillance, sterilising opposition, silencing protest, crushing free speech – and they are not necessarily in the same brigade, but they are in the same army which is dedicated to taking and holding onto power for whatever reason, whether it be profit or just plain megalomania. You say that to not take out opposition like this site is pretty stupid, I say that is too overt and would give the game away. Shutting things down wholesale and even resorting to political assassinations could blow up in their face. This works because most people think they are doing it for the right reasons. I’m not sure they would have got the same level of compliance by bringing the army onto the streets (though there’s still time.) Okay, people are not going to argue with the barrel of a gun but then the resistance starts building covertly. I’ve said here before that masks represent the whole horror of it to me and there is no sensible reason to advocate the wearing of masks now (and way past the peak) unless there is an agenda. And much as I would like to buy your perspective, I can’t. Point taken about Davos but the NCOs and other ranks never know what the generals are up to. Anyway, thanks for keeping it civil.

31292 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 2, #14 of 847 🔗

There are a lot of strands to this whole business, and many parts of society, business and government that are culpable, as well as the general public for being so apathetic.

In the UK I would single out the government, who were in a strong position, for the most criticism, followed by the media who in part had an agenda and in part just wanted clicks from death porn.

There are certainly forces operating who have seen this as an opportunity to advance their agenda, and must be resisted.

I still tend to think as a matter ot tactics that it’s best to get people to focus on what seem to me the most obvious and immediate objections to the current approach – it hasn’t worked and is doing more harm than good – but equally there will be those who will respond to the kind of observations you are making and start to question things.

I remain mildly optimistic that a combination of being much poorer, general fatigue and the human social instinct will get us out of this, though that’s by no means a given and I fear that whatever happens there won’t be the kind of reckoning that we really need, that ensures this doesn’t happen again.

31470 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, #15 of 847 🔗

I think a lot is now riding on Simon Dolan’s case – if he is not even allowed a judicial review then I think some kind of coup has definitely taken place..

30649 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #16 of 847 🔗
30921 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #17 of 847 🔗

Still a lot of silly hoops to be jumped through, including “protective bubbles” but it’s a start and hopefully will be a flag to our stupid lot.

30652 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #18 of 847 🔗
30676 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to HawkAnalyst, 24, #19 of 847 🔗

No we can’t afford it

30711 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HawkAnalyst, 26, #20 of 847 🔗

There’s going to be a tsunami of job losses. Whether this begins in October 2020 when the current furlough arrangements cease, or whether (at great cost) the ball is kicked down the road to 2021, there’s going to be a tsunami of job losses.

Welcome to reality people. You asked for it, here it comes.

30727 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #21 of 847 🔗

Keep an eye on 24 June, the next Quarter Day when many commercial rents become due. The last was on 25 March, 2 days after the lockdown was imposed.

Given that SMEs provide the majority of jobs in the UK, and given also that very many of these businesses are in rented premises, what is going to happen to a company if it can’t pay the rent? So far the landlords have been pretty hard-nosed. If they evict their tenants, however, (thereby putting the workforce on the dole) they’ll be killing the golden goose. Interesting times ahead.

30908 ▶▶▶ LyndsayHopkins, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #22 of 847 🔗

My daughters friend was furloughed but on Monday she received a call to say she had been made redundant.

30830 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #23 of 847 🔗

Prolonging the inevitable will make the reaction much, much worse…

30881 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #24 of 847 🔗

Well, that won’t do anything. It will make it WORSE.
There are millions of people like me who are working from home, but our companies aren’t making any MONEY.

31204 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #25 of 847 🔗

Good grief! They only have to admit the “pandemic” is over and relax all the nonsensical rules. Something big and very sinister is clearly afoot, there is no other sane explanation.

30653 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 59, #26 of 847 🔗

Train Guard ; Excuse me, sir, do you have a medical condition that prevents you from wearing a mask?

Me: Yes.

Train Guardt: May I ask what that is?

Me: Sanity.

30696 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #27 of 847 🔗

A suggestion, or an anecdote? (I approve, either way).

And if the latter, what happened next?

30779 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mark, 9, #28 of 847 🔗

How about:

Train Guard: May I ask what that is?

Me: No, it’s private so f*ck off and mind your own business you fascist pr*ck.

Sorry Mark but I’m losing my patience with this whole charade and I’m beginning to get very angry…..

30714 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Peter Thompson, 19, #29 of 847 🔗

Train guard: Excuse me sir, you are aware you should be wearing that mask across your face?

Me: No, the rules just state I should be wearing a mask. (Gestures to mask hanging around neck) Here it is. I’m wearing one.

30776 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nick Rose, #30 of 847 🔗

Like it Nick, I’m know imagining many ways in which to wear a mask…!

30983 ▶▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to T. Prince, 1, #31 of 847 🔗

I prefer Peter Hitchens taking the mickey by wearing a full face gas mask

30719 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to Peter Thompson, 11, #32 of 847 🔗

Crossed London on various forms of transport yesterday and a few people weren’t wearing masks on buses, the bus driver said nothing. London dead as a doornail, Trafalgar square empty. Clapham Junction has a ridiculous one way system so you can’t use certain flights of steps or the main tunnel to exit. There was more going on in outer zone shopping areas, no masks being worn. Madness.

30753 ▶▶▶ Lena, replying to Sceptique, 12, #33 of 847 🔗

Commuted to and from Victoria today (as I have done for the past 10 weeks with no mask), including the tube. Wore my mask around my neck the entire way, nobody said anything. About a fifth of people were mask-free, more slid theirs down their face whilst on the train. Found a handy screenshot from Southeastern Railway stating that the law only requires you to wear masks whilst actually on the train/bus/tube, not on the platform or TfL premises, so anyone telling you otherwise can jog on 🙂

31243 ▶▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to Lena, 3, #34 of 847 🔗

Apparently you can remove your mask while eating and drinking so I guess you could sip a bottle of water the entire journey and nobody can say anything!!

30771 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #35 of 847 🔗

How about:

Train Guard: May I ask what that is?

Me: No, it’s private so f*ck off and mind your own business you fascist pr*ck.

Sorry Peter but I’m losing my patience with this whole charade and I’m beginning to get very angry…..

30984 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #36 of 847 🔗

Train guard: Excuse me sir, you are aware you should be wearing a mask across your face?

Me: Of course, but I am part of a BLM protest so that rule simply doesn’t apply to me.

Train Guard: Oh, sorry, sir, my apologies. Of course you’re quite right. That legal requirement doesn’t apply to you. Have a nice day.

30657 Biker, replying to Biker, 21, #37 of 847 🔗

it don’t matter if this app was programmed by Jesus and delivered to me between the legs of Amanda Holden, i won’t be downloading it.

30723 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Biker, 1, #38 of 847 🔗

Even if it came with a 6 pack and pack of 20 ciggies?

30783 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sarigan, #39 of 847 🔗

I don’t smoke Offlands, can I substitute a packet of ready salted crisps?

30738 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Biker, 1, #40 of 847 🔗

😂 😂 😂 😂

30832 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Biker, 5, #41 of 847 🔗

UK government: Churches must shut

Jesus: but i will be out of work

UK government: learn to code

30968 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Edgar Friendly, 3, #42 of 847 🔗

The churches should have stayed open anyway.

31209 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Castro, 2, #43 of 847 🔗

Makes a mockery of the label protestant.

31140 ▶▶▶ Toby Pierides, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #44 of 847 🔗

Except most “coding” nowadays is done offshore, usually from India. A lesson those of us in IT learned a long time ago when the ability to work from home started to become possible. When it dawned on companies that they could just have people anywhere in the world and not on site, the bean counters were deliriously happy. Careful what you wish for folks…

31542 ▶▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Toby Pierides, #45 of 847 🔗

Jesus has been working from home for about 2000 years, bet his dad is getting well fed up

30659 Peter Thompson, 5, #46 of 847 🔗

Could you be a bit more careful, slow down and check what you are posting ? please

30660 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 1, #47 of 847 🔗

Hi, is it possible to get the anti-body test that Tom mentions by mail? I’m pretty sure I had Covid19 in December and I’d like to get a test to find out, or would it be too late?

30671 ▶▶ SayNoToSuing, replying to Moomin, 1, #48 of 847 🔗

No one knows what “too late” is with this virus. Immunity definitely lasts a few months, whether it lasts longer hasn’t been proprly tested yet. As far as I’m aware there’s been no study asking really early covid patients, of many severities of condition, to come back to a lab every few weeks and get repeat antibody tests to see how long immuity lasts. Could be months, could be years, could be forever.

30687 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to SayNoToSuing, 6, #49 of 847 🔗

Antibodies will last a few months but immunity usually a lot longer, often a lifetime. The cells that make the antibodies make memory copies of themselves. If you encounter the same virus again years later these are activated and they make a bunch more of the same antibodies.

The antibody test only tests for the actual antibodies and December is probably a bit too long ago.

30717 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to guy153, #50 of 847 🔗

OK, thanks.

30718 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to SayNoToSuing, #51 of 847 🔗

CV maybe acts in a different way, but I went down with flu – the real deal btw, spare me any feminist BS please – in 1990. Never had it since and never have the vaccine.

30728 ▶▶ Felice, replying to Moomin, 1, #52 of 847 🔗

My daughter had a home test kit at the end of March. She ordered it before the health board banned private companies using the home test, but still got her results. (She was negative, much to her disgust, as she had been really ill in Feb.) The company she used, vivoclinic, no longer does home kits, but does do more expensive tests where a veinous sample is taken. I suspect there is plenty of choice to get the test done if you live in London, less so if you live elsewhere.

30662 Emma, 1, #53 of 847 🔗

You seem to have your comments prepped before Toby posts, and the above is really annoying.

30665 SayNoToSuing, replying to SayNoToSuing, 7, #54 of 847 🔗

I don’t think anyone has ever sued for catching regular old influenza somewhere, so this seems quite reasonable, except the fact the waivers are even needed to ban suing in these circumstances. Should be automatically banned from suing unless someone actively and deliberate infected you (got aggressive, coughed and spat in your face while they kenw they had it, which is disgusting and criminal anyway even in non-pandemic times). I’d be more than prepared to sign such waivers to get normality back in the UK.

30700 ▶▶ Stephen McMurray, replying to SayNoToSuing, 13, #55 of 847 🔗

I have been saying this for ages. I’ll happily sign up if they scrap all social distancing measures

30755 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Stephen McMurray, 9, #56 of 847 🔗

Me too, every time, everywhere.Even uf the bug then killed me, I’d feel I was dying as a free human being. The alternative is worse than death, frankly.

30778 ▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, #57 of 847 🔗

In case you didn’t see my suggestion earlier – are you interested in seeing if we’re West Walian neighbours, Annie? You sound like a woman after my own heart!

30937 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Melangell, #58 of 847 🔗

Sorry, missed you. Tenby is me. Where is you?

31069 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, #59 of 847 🔗

In between Llandysul and Newcastle Emlyn. Glad to know there’s intelligent life in Tenby! If you want to get in touch you could email anmaidrinrua(at)gmail.com.

31073 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Schrodinger, replying to Melangell, 1, #60 of 847 🔗

Not far from Llandysul myself near Brechfa, here. Just posted about my couple of days in the relative freedom of England on Wednesday and Thursday.

31075 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Schrodinger, 1, #61 of 847 🔗

I have been travelling back and forth weekly to the English side of Hay-on-Wye along the A40. The person I visit sends me a fake email about my visit being for business purposes (it ain’t) and I carry a wee briefcase and smart jacket in the passenger seat. I get a sort of frisson from imagining I’m in a John Le Carre novel and expect to see guards on watchtowers with their rifles raised on Offa’s Dyke.

31097 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Melangell, #62 of 847 🔗

I have been travelling back and forth weekly to the English side of Hay-on-Wye along the A40. The person I visit sends me a fake email about my visit being for business purposes (it ain’t) and I carry a wee briefcase and smart jacket in the passenger seat. I get a sort of frisson from imagining I’m in a John Le Carre novel and expect to see guards on watchtowers with their rifles raised on Offa’s Dyke.

30799 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 13, #63 of 847 🔗

I agree. I have been greatly encouraged by my customers’ behaviour in all of this. I have had a few older people coming in wearing masks but they look as though they don’t want to wear them (perhaps they have been nagged into it by their adult children …).

I think ours is the only shop in the town that doesn’t have the distancing dots or hand-gel – I just won’t do it. And not one person has queried this (no doubt I will get snitched on but I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it!). As far as I am concerned, if they are happy to take the ‘risk’ then so am I. I had one lady in the other day who asked conspiratorially whether the toilet was open and I said “of course it is …” God, you’d have thought I’d told her her lottery numbers had come up!

30938 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 4, #64 of 847 🔗

Wish I could escape from Gulag Wales and come to your caff. First place I’ll go to to drink to our freedom!

30668 SayNoToSuing, replying to SayNoToSuing, 9, #65 of 847 🔗

Glad to see the app delayed, will be very glad to see it properly cancelled for good. I guess that will happen a little after autumn comes round and filthy air-con units come back on but no second spike appears, perhaps hidden by being announced the same day as some celebrity or royal family news.

31217 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to SayNoToSuing, #66 of 847 🔗

I’m becoming more convinced they’ll fabricate a second spike.

30669 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #67 of 847 🔗

WTAF?

30678 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #68 of 847 🔗

Bloody ‘ell, I thought I’d wandered onto the wrong site for a moment:

Contact tracing from those well-known philanthropists, Google and Apple?

‘Reliable’ antibody testing?

Really? Not on your Nelly!!

Meanwhile, get ready kiddies, here comes the ‘2nd Front’ (Beijing, US, NZ etc.)

https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1556-new-world-next-week-with-james-evan-pilato/ It’s got some good analyses of a few current issues as well as CV19.

30786 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #69 of 847 🔗

Apparently if you are downloading the updates to your mobile’s software then you are already getting features in these updates that they have put in to make the tracing apps work better. Not updating my phone for now! Turn off automatic updates!

31155 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 1, #70 of 847 🔗

Thanks! UK Column warned about this a week or so ago. You have to turn off Google notifications and, as you say, don’t update.

30684 Julian, replying to Julian, 4, #71 of 847 🔗

Hmm. But where doesn the “new normal” fit into that. Does that count in his view as “lockdown”.

Not much sign of the pandemic “coming back” so far in Europe.

30846 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Julian, 4, #72 of 847 🔗

“Not much sign of the pandemic “coming back” so far in Europe”.

Sorry, did I miss something? Have we had a pandemic in Europe? The world, ANYWHERE?

30935 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, #73 of 847 🔗

No.

30685 Peter Thompson, 3, #74 of 847 🔗

Have you thought about doing your own blog ?

30688 GetaGrip, replying to GetaGrip, 16, #75 of 847 🔗

Scotland starts ‘Phase 2’:

‘The government’s original route map had indicated that pubs and restaurants would be able to open outdoor spaces, such as beer gardens, in Phase 2.

However, Ms Sturgeon said she was unable to give a date for when this change would take effect and has asked for more scientific advice before making a decision.

“There is emerging evidence that places such as pubs, restaurants and gyms can be hotspots for transmission,” she said.

“It is important that we better understand this evidence, and what further mitigation might be necessary to protect people in such spaces, before we permit them to open.”

Thank goodness I’m going to be protected from sitting in the open air on a sunny evening with a beer for a while longer.

30732 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to GetaGrip, 11, #76 of 847 🔗

F***ing nonsense.
I hadn’t appreciated that childminders were given the go ahead to start operating again in Phase One. Apparently it’s been fine for them to manage 4 children (from different families) and their own for the last couple of weeks. Meanwhile, I’m supposedly only allowed to go 5 miles for a BBQ at a friend’s house and pee in a bush when I’m there.
I’m well over this.

30749 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 7, #77 of 847 🔗

Good news for you https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53093007
“If you are meeting in someone’s garden, you will be able to use their toilet – although you should avoid touching surfaces and clean anything that you touch.”
Not sure how you clean the toilet roll but let’s not be mean about Wee Jimmy’s largesse .

30878 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to arfurmo, 2, #78 of 847 🔗

Er … men may be a pble fo avoid touching the surface of the loo seat, but what about us poor females?
I presume the Sturgeon is transsexual in that department?

31234 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #79 of 847 🔗

How do you put the seat and lid up and down?
These guideline-makers can’t possibly be human, surely?

30770 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 3, #80 of 847 🔗

MPs needed to be able to have their au pairs and nannies back – also their cleaners!!!

31232 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #81 of 847 🔗

Nannies and cleaners. Essential services for Cabinet members.

30748 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to GetaGrip, 16, #82 of 847 🔗

“There is emerging evidence that places such as pubs, restaurants and gyms can be hotspots for transmission,” she said.”
What evidence?. What research? How can there be any when they are all closed and therefore they can’t be hotspots for anything.
More political gobbledegook as an excuse for not returning to normality.

30858 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Polemon2, 3, #83 of 847 🔗

I hope that the good people of Scotland don’t have short memories….

30794 ▶▶ IanE, replying to GetaGrip, 2, #84 of 847 🔗

Strange then, Wee Krankie, should you be reading, that the BLM riots protests have not caused an uptick of any sort down South (you know, in civilised regions).

30860 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to IanE, #85 of 847 🔗

I bet the anti-lockdown protests have though…

30802 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to GetaGrip, 1, #86 of 847 🔗

Seems to be a few pubs round the capital that are selling, lots of green space to use as a beer garden.. Been fun at work watching the increase in people coming out.

Still raging though, more madness from the Scottish government today. I realised the train is stopping in my town again so thought I could stop using the car for my commute (bus service turned from reasonable to terrible overnight), however I refuse to use a mask so that idea is out. Might have to start doing the 30 mile cycle, will actually get fit again!

30952 ▶▶ Bella, replying to GetaGrip, 6, #87 of 847 🔗

There is no ’emerging evidence’. How can there be if the places are closed? Every night up until lockdown I was in a busy pub. End of March/beginning of April was the peak of infections, not one person I know in those pubs got infected, so how’s that for emerging evidence? I had no opinion on Sturgeon before this, living in England as I do, but she is a real cow isn’t she? Wouldn’t want to eat her caviar.

31251 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #88 of 847 🔗

My brother lives in Scotland and his wife thinks Mad Nic is doing a good job. This is a woman with two degrees and no brain whatsoever.

31230 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to GetaGrip, #89 of 847 🔗

Well all those frail old folks do tend to congregate in pubs, gyms and restaurants, don’t they?

30689 SayNoToSuing, replying to SayNoToSuing, #90 of 847 🔗

Just seen some very bad news, cases in Sweden have risen in the last week. Doesn’t look beleivable given that the graph was making a clear and slow decline since its peak months ago. Does anyone know whether there has been any kind of huge ramping up in testing which explains this rise?

30690 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to SayNoToSuing, 8, #91 of 847 🔗

Whatever you read about the deterioration of things in Sweden, just ignore.

30693 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Victoria, 3, #92 of 847 🔗

They never give up (see my earlier post about the ‘2nd wave panic’).

30699 ▶▶ SayNoToSuing, replying to SayNoToSuing, 12, #93 of 847 🔗

Actually found the answer on wikipedia, increased testing in several swedish counties has produced a spike in case detections, but hospital admissions with it are still dropping as are deaths.

Bit of a spike going on in a remote mining town too, looks like the place is so isolated from the rest of Sweden in general that cases have only just begun there, so it might have a separate peak and decline while the rest of Sweden keeps declining slowly and surely.

30708 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to SayNoToSuing, 3, #94 of 847 🔗

This link is useful
https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa
Daily deaths and hospital admissions peaked ages ago

30724 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to SayNoToSuing, 1, #95 of 847 🔗

And there may have been some under-reporting of deaths, which they caught up with over the past couple of days. This happens here also.

30944 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to SayNoToSuing, 6, #96 of 847 🔗

A positive test is not a ‘case’ though they would like you to think so because it supports the second wave shit. As Alex Berenson said, a positive test is clinically meaningless unless medical intervention is required. If there are no symptoms it’s not an effing ‘case’. They (the bastards who cause this scare) are desperate for a second wave, ignore them.

31291 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to SayNoToSuing, 1, #97 of 847 🔗

Ironic if the testers took it there!

30742 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to SayNoToSuing, 3, #98 of 847 🔗

I asked this yesterday, they have significantly ramped up their testing apparently. I was suspicious anyway as a big jump like that is very unlikely to be a natural effect.

30763 ▶▶ Nic, replying to SayNoToSuing, 3, #99 of 847 🔗

Considerably lower today ,judge everybody at the end of the year.

30769 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to SayNoToSuing, 7, #100 of 847 🔗

It’s a myth! I’m here in Sweden and the *only* reason for the increased number of cases is that they are doing more testing – Anders Tegnell said so yesterday. People who would not previously have been tested (due to only having mild symptoms) can now get a test. Numbers in intensive care have halved in the last 3 weeks and yesterday were down by 72 on the previous week. If it continues at this rate, in about 3 weeks there will barely be anyone in intensive care here at all! If things were getting worse, then they would not have given us the all clear from last weekend to travel freely around the country (prior to that we were advised – not ordered – to not visit other regions). And the Foreign office has now opened up for international travel to certain countries. This would NOT have happened if they really thought things were getting worse!

31469 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Carrie, #101 of 847 🔗

Carrie, you’ve got me curious enough to post a comment here for the first time. Were Swedes banned from leaving the country at all? Or was it just a ‘do not travel overseas at this time, but you actually can freely if you must, can find a way to get there and if they’ll let you in’ type deal?

30691 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #102 of 847 🔗

Just when you thought it couldn’t get more insane, the magic money tree blossoms yet again:

RMT Press Office
Responding to an announcement that the Department for Transport has drawn advances from the Contingencies Fund totalling £7 Billion to enable expenditure on COVID-19 support packages for transport RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said;

“This should not just be a blank cheque for private transport operators but instead should be linked to taking transport services into public ownership to ensure every penny is spent on protecting safety and the economy alongside strict requirements to protect jobs across the transport sector, such as those threatened at P&O Ferries.

[blah, blah, bloody blah…] https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-on-7-billion-covid-19-support-for-transport-sector/

I have attached the RMT’s accompanying photo of a bus driver wearing a muzzle. They obviously really care about passenger safety (not)!

30701 ▶▶ Mark, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #103 of 847 🔗

There’s no reason to suppose we can afford to spend any more, going forwards, on public transport than we could before this self-inflicted Great Leap Backwards, in fact the contrary is likely the case.

Since the sector will clearly be far less efficient under coronapanic measures, we should expect a substantial reduction in capacity and employment in the sector.

30759 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Mark, 5, #104 of 847 🔗

Yes major redunduncies on the way and it’s not very green to have a big bus with less than half capacity allowed you could not make it up.

30761 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #105 of 847 🔗

The solution to the risk of infection for bus drivers here in Uppsala (Sweden) has been to cordon off the front row of seats with hazard tape and to have all boarding and disembarking via the rear (or rather side) doors of the buses. No masks!

30863 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 1, #106 of 847 🔗

That’s what they used to do here, can’t see why they didn’t carry on with that and not bothered with the mask.

31154 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 3, #107 of 847 🔗

That would make sense but our local buses only have 1 door, next to the driver. Half the seats are taped off. Screens were put in only in April but no local bus drivers as far as I know got CV19. The buses are now empty so I can only assume that we’re not alone in boycotting them until this idiocy passes – the virus has gone!

31327 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #108 of 847 🔗

Next unions will be campaigning for conductors to be reintroduced, fully kitted out in bright yellow hazmat suits. Maybe a disinfectant shower at the terminus.

Madness.

We have no money.

30792 ▶▶ IanE, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #109 of 847 🔗

Quite – as I noted yesterday, what if the oxygen uptake restriction causes the driver of a bus to pass out? This has actually happened to a car driver in the USA.

30862 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, 3, #110 of 847 🔗

In that case TFL and bus companies should be prepared for lawsuits if that happens. Ditto if a passenger also passes out due to the mask or face covering s/he is wearing.

31093 ▶▶ paulito, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #111 of 847 🔗

Let’s see what the unions have to say when 1,000s of their members lose their jobs due to this lunacy.

31295 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #112 of 847 🔗

Looks like he can’t wait to rip it off!

31296 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #113 of 847 🔗

And gloves FFS!

31324 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #114 of 847 🔗

Unions need sorting out, as a member of a union, I feel they have played a big part in the continued fear of this cv19 situation. I think schools would be back if unions had not campaigned to keep them closed.

Union leaders will not be bothered until union membership plummets and employment rises, resulting in another round of unions combining together to survive.

Why do they not see the link between pushing the virus agenda and lots of people becoming unemployed. They should be fighting for their members to be back at work.

Frustrating.

31336 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #115 of 847 🔗

Agreed. I’ve been in unions too all my adult life and their behaviour over CV19 is simply perverse. I’m retired now and in our local transport group so I get the RMT updates. I’ve written to them twice complaining about their stance and did get 1 acknowledgement so at least they’re being read, for what it’s worth.

The RMT’s latest bleat is about redundancies on the Heathrow Express (not front-line). This would doubtless have happened anyway but those unlucky workers have not been well-served by their union.

30692 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 9, #116 of 847 🔗

He is right in one respect, this virus will be with us forever. However, it will be like getting the flu for most people. Keep in mind that thousands die from flu each year including a lot of children.

How to protect ourselves? Optimise vitamin D levels , and no not the misery 25mcg recommended by the NHS but much more. Always take vitamin D supplementation with vitamin k2 and Magnesium.

30702 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Victoria, 7, #117 of 847 🔗

As a male of a certain age, I have a very useful vitamin D generation zone across the top of my head. Combined with not generally bothering with suncream and spending quite a lot of time outdoors, this seems to do a fairly good job on maintaining levels through the summer for me.

30725 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 6, #118 of 847 🔗

I agree. Why take pills if you don’t have to … I have been very, very suspicious of BigPharma for many years and for good reason. They want you on long-term medication for their bottom line and that is it. As I said the other day, why haven’t they developed an anti-biotic for over 30 years – there’s no money in it. But there are billions in anti-depressants, statins, HRT, PPIs et. al.

30747 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 5, #119 of 847 🔗

Yep, my feelings exactly. It never should be a case of “why not”, always of seeking a very persuasive reason to take any kind of medication or supplement.

30731 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Victoria, 2, #120 of 847 🔗

The maximum safe daily dose is generally said to be 4000 IU (100 mcg). It’s also good to take 1 gm (yes, a whole gram) of vitamin C daily, especially in winter. As far as minerals go, zinc and selenium are also recommended for staving off respiratory illness.

Check this out: she’s great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rlZGRz6Qo

30733 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Simon Dutton, 4, #121 of 847 🔗

These all work well. If you start to feel poorly, you can in fact take more Vitamin C up to body tolerance – in other words when you start to get loose stools – and you will find that the tolerance is much higher if you are poorly than if you are healthy. Also keep an eye on iodine levels as this is something many of us are low on nowadays. This keeps many of your body parts working at optimum level!
I was a complementary health practitioner for 30 years – clinical herbalism and nutrition – and it amazes me that this basic knowledge just isn’t given by the NHS. In fact, usually quite the opposite. But I guess as they appear to be governed by the drug companies, it’s not such a surprise really.

30780 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #122 of 847 🔗

Elderberry capsules are good to take at the first sign of infection too.

30777 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Simon Dutton, 2, #123 of 847 🔗

Been taking these for years – had only one (mild) cold in the last 11 years!!!

30758 ▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, 5, #124 of 847 🔗

And don’t spend the rest of your life hiding under the bloody bed, where the sun don’t shine.

30773 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 1, #125 of 847 🔗

… note that NHS workers have apparently been taking these supplements from the start..

31083 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Victoria, 1, #126 of 847 🔗

Absolutely Victoria. I was told 5 years ago that a complete knee replacement was only a matter of time due to osteoarthritis. Some days I could barely dress myself. Since changing my diet and supplementing with the vitamins you mentioned, I’ve been symptom, and medication, free and haven’t been back to the specialist.

30694 Mark, replying to Mark, 9, #127 of 847 🔗

Critics argue that liability waivers open the door for corporations to skirt protocols like erecting Plexiglas barriers, providing face masks and other protective equipment, and keeping people the proper distance apart without suffering any repercussions. ​”

They write that like it’s a bad thing!

31077 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Mark, 2, #128 of 847 🔗

I’d go out of my way to support any business that doesn’t impose these ridiculous anti social restrictions. What really maddens me, apart from the restrictions themselves, is that most businesses actually seem proud of going along with this insanity.

30697 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 76, #129 of 847 🔗

Haven’t posted here for a number of weeks, dare I say I’ve been completely distracted from lockdown scepticism by the appalling BLM protests in London. It also feels that at this point, similar with Brexit, there really isn’t anymore arguments to make.

We now know (with an enormous degree of confidence) that the government has perpetrated one of the most shocking, paralysing and unnecessary acts of self-harm our nation has ever seen. It just feels kind of moot trying to argue that this is true, given the sheer wealth of evidence on this site that Toby has done so marvellously well to accumulate.

I can’t now help but feel utter contempt towards those still defending the lockdown, harping on about a “second wave” or barking “2 metres!!” at anybody who dares step within 10ft of them. It has the feeling of a cult in its death throes – only a few, hardcore disciples remaining, praying that their fealty to the cause will somehow bring the reward of life eternal.

Maybe my fellow sceptics on these boards will agree with me – I’m just tired of the whole damn thing. The colossal ineptitude of our Government has ceased to become a motor for keyboard-pounding rage; it has now reduced itself to a permanent source of shame, humiliation and abject disappointment. Perhaps if Mr Dolan’s legal challenge tastes success, my passion for the fight will be reignited once more. For now, I’m very much a weary spectator to this painful, never-ending car crash.

30704 ▶▶ Stephen McMurray, replying to Scotty87, 17, #130 of 847 🔗

agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately no matter how overwhelming the evidence is that the virus isn’t as bad as people thought and lockdown was a disaster the government will always find some big pharma shill who claims to be an expert and says the end of the world will happen if we ever get back to normal

30746 ▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Stephen McMurray, 8, #131 of 847 🔗

Or the crooked, mendacious MSM will give Neil “Top Sh@gger” Ferguson another opportunity to spout his apocalyptic nonsense.

30715 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Scotty87, 40, #132 of 847 🔗

Don’t give up mate, we’ve got to fight this nonsense. I know exactly how you feel though, I’m tired of it too, each morning I wake up hoping it has all gone away but no the dummies in government keep pushing the lies and people keep falling for them. It’s an outrage what they’ve done to this country, it really disgusts me.

30735 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Moomin, 11, #133 of 847 🔗

Agreed. Every sceptic should try to spread the word. It’s our only hope of averting this monstrous putsch. That won’t be easy, given that we’re up against a brainwashed population sleepwalking into tyranny, but we must try.

Uncle Vernon puts it better:

https://youtu.be/P6n8IXoDj5g

30750 ▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Moomin, 15, #134 of 847 🔗

It’s beyond farcical mate. U-turn after u-turn, claiming to be “following the science” when the science is increasingly saying that the virus is a spent force. And now all of these ridiculous measures, forced muzzle-wearing, crippling the high street with bizarre distancing laws – all to cover the government’s backside and to brainwash the gullible into thinking that we’ve just experienced the Black Death II.

30716 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Scotty87, 30, #135 of 847 🔗

Thank you Scotty, you’ve summed up my current view perfectly. I too haven’t posted for a few weeks. It’s like I’m living in a parallel universe to the majority of folk. To use your car crash analogy, its like being in a massive slow motion shunt on the motorway. We’re in the first or second car and can see the impact now, everyone else is some way back. Its not hit them yet, but it will …

Will share two tales of madness and one of hope from the last week.

Madness 1
One two separate occasions in the last week I’ve seen lone cyclists out on their own in the middle of nowhere wearing masks.

Madness 2
My wife has returned to the office. One of her colleagues, who has medical qualification and a very difficult to get specialist legal qualification, was so nervous about returning to the office that he announced he was looking for ways of avoiding going to the toilet ALL day to avoid the risk of catching the black death. He’s in his 30s too!

Hope
I heard today that friends are going to a clandestine wedding celebration this weekend. A small-ish gathering of 20 or so but with outside catering and a marquee. To provide air cover, the couple holding the event went around to all their neighbours to check that they were all cool with it and they were.

Hang in there fellow Lockdown Sceptics. May the force be with you.

30781 ▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 15, #136 of 847 🔗

I think one of the most dispiriting observations of this awful chapter in our history is how our society has (largely) revealed itself to be a meek, pliable throng who will readily surrender its hard-won freedoms in the face of even the mildest of existential threats.

The Government, in lockstep with the MSM, played a blinder with its constant fear-mongering, and of course depicting the NHS as a damsel in distress, desperately in need of our conformity to the “stay home, save lives” message.

However, we’ve come a long way since those dark days in late March. We have brilliant resources such as this website to debunk the New Project Fear. Why are huge swathes of the public still married to the myth that this disease is a virulent killer of healthy, young people? Is it a lack of critical thinking, a surplus of anxious, easily-led individuals, or both?

30934 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Scotty87, 12, #137 of 847 🔗

I think it’s because we now have two, if not three, generations who have never experienced a serious threat to their lives, or even their comfort. And who have been reared to be entirely egotistical. No wonder they crumble at the slightest hint of a real danger to their precious selves.

Of course there are exceptions, like our Poppy, and I hope many more. But I suspect that scepticism may be more prevalent among the seniors. (Shoot me down in flames for that if you like!)

30945 ▶▶▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to annie, 8, #138 of 847 🔗

I would agree with this, Annie. Social media has morphed huge chunks of the millennial generation and younger into preening narcissists, as well as providing a fertile ground for misinformation or “fake news” to spread and fester. They are largely an amalgam of cowardly conformists.

And to think that 80 years ago, young boys lied about their age in order to die for this country. How times have changed…

31036 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Scotty87, #139 of 847 🔗

that was more to do with patriotism.. something that has been outlawed for many years now

31305 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Scotty87, 1, #140 of 847 🔗

Those young boys were brainwashed by the media and pressurised by their peers. Same thing really and equally sad.

31306 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #141 of 847 🔗

The volunteers were predominantly middle class white collar workers who thought they were going on a jolly romp.
The working classes, who knew better, had to be called up, ie press-ganged.

31005 ▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to annie, 2, #142 of 847 🔗

I was born in 1982, and I completely agree with you. I have always eschewed comfort and ego and felt chronologically displaced. To be honest, I’m pretty tired of feeling like the only adult in the room when I’m usually the youngest person by a few decades.

31105 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 4, #143 of 847 🔗

Cyclists wearing masks. Absolute ballbags! How many of these idiots will end up having accidents.

31308 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to paulito, #144 of 847 🔗

Takes the idiots out of the gene pool?

30729 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Scotty87, 10, #145 of 847 🔗

The government is still hoping something will come along to dig them out of the hole they’ve filled in behind them. Wait until the public enquiry/Royal Commission!

30767 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 15, #146 of 847 🔗

Frankly, I’m slavering at the prospect of the Coronaberg Trials.

Don’t worry too much about the zombies, revolting as they are. During WW2, in the occupied countries, there were few heroes ( no matter what these countries tell you now) and many, many cowards and collaborators. Come the end of the War, hey presto, everybody had been a hero of the Resistance.

The Coviwar is now. We are the Resistance. The zombies will crawl in later.

30837 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to annie, 5, #147 of 847 🔗

Annie, it won’t last until ‘the trials’,they’re coming for Boris now. Channel 4 ‘News’ which for weeks has been screeching on at the ‘catastrophic’ pandemic was earlier taking about the ‘catastrophic’ impact this spamdemic has had on the economy. What a fickle bunch of bast*rds….

30871 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 4, #148 of 847 🔗

And now I’m thinking of the medieval mystery plays in which all the baddies get dragged off to hell, which is portrayed as a gigantic evil head with chomping jaws. Very satisfying mental picture.

30904 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to T. Prince, 1, #149 of 847 🔗

They’re welcome to him.

31309 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, #150 of 847 🔗

It’s about time!

31340 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to T. Prince, #151 of 847 🔗

The 3-month bung the media received to promote Corona-Fear may be about to run out (or have already done). I hope you’re right, anyway!

30903 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 1, #152 of 847 🔗

Slavering? Me too Annie, me too :o))

30730 ▶▶ Marion, replying to Scotty87, 5, #153 of 847 🔗

Absolutely agree, I think abject disappointment sums up how I feel exactly.

30745 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Scotty87, 17, #154 of 847 🔗

Indeed. I’m around. I read the daily update. But I’m detaching mentally – or trying to. All engaging (with zealots) is doing is making me angry and frustrated. The policy from now on is dissent (in thought and action), don’t engage.
Also if you get on a bus without a muzzle (as I did today) just stick your headphones back in sharpish, and don’t engage if the driver argues. To be fair mine breathed in as if he was going to say something, saw the evidently wild look in my eye, and thought better of it. Many things have been achieved merely with that defiant look in one’s eyes.

30754 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Scotty87, 16, #155 of 847 🔗

I find it somewhat incomprehensible that people are still believing the 2m nonsense – do they never consider the fact that other European countries are managing perfectly well with a 1m distance, and no masks, and there have not been mass deaths since other lockdowns lifted? And *surely* the penny must be dropping, that there has not been a new wave of infections since the BLM protests? In spite of BAME people supposedly being *more* likely to become seriously ill from the virus…

30877 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 6, #156 of 847 🔗

Their minds don’t work logically. (Stop that sentence after ‘work’ if you like.) Take Stalin Drakeford in Wales. He must know that travel has been fairly free in England for weeks without affecting the Covi figures, yet we are still shackled to our immediate vicinity.

31034 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to annie, 2, #157 of 847 🔗

remember when loony left councils like Lambeth would declare themselves a nuclear free zone. on the basis that if a nuclear bomb went off over London they would somehow be spared (i think it was something magical in the street signs that would make the radiation stop, think and then turn around)

30803 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Scotty87, 4, #158 of 847 🔗

Well said Scotty!!! I’m fed up as well and the last few meetings I’ve attended at work has made this all dispiriting and hopeless.

31303 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Scotty87, 1, #159 of 847 🔗

Don’t give up!

Last week, I wrote to my local councillor complaining that, after 12 weeks of lockdown, the loos in the local park had remained open but now were suddenly closed.

I received what I took to be a rather dismissive response, to which I robustly responded.
Here’s the reply I got last night:

I do apologise if you thought I was being patronising, this was not my intention, I was genuinely trying to reassure. …..
I suspect I am more cautious than you as I am deeply concerned that measures are being relaxed too soon, but I hope I am wrong.

Well, I sent a response assuring her that there was nothing to fear but the lockdown measures trashing the economy because the virus has run its course.
I sent her a link to graphs on Hector Drummond’s site:
https://hectordrummond.com/2020/06/15/week-22-graphs-from-christopher-bowyer/

Hopefully she’ll become enlightened and inform some of the other quivering councillors.

30703 PedroF, 1, #160 of 847 🔗

regarding the picture of sand in an road to Dubai, please see this:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/sandy-highway-to-dubai-covid/

30705 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 30, #161 of 847 🔗

Had a call from my dentists today, cancelling my checkup next month, but saying they are open if I need any emergency treatment. I asked if there was any rubbish in place like sanitizer, face masks, temperature checks etc. She said no absolutely not. She was definitely a lockdown sceptic, as we then had a quick chat about how ridiculous and unnecessary this all is. She said she just wanted everything to go back to normal ASAP. Join the club

30721 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Hubes, 18, #162 of 847 🔗

My missus works in a hospital. They are all sick of the new facemask guidelines (incorporated into trust policy therefore gospel). Last week it was one mask per session ie unlimited. This went down to four per day on Monday, now down to three a day maximum. They are literally making it up as they go along dependant on supplies

30736 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 21, #163 of 847 🔗

It’s an absolute load of bollocks isn’t it. I feel sorry for anybody in any job who’s being forced into wearing a mask. There must be some human rights law it’s contravening.
It makes me so angry seeing all this unfold.
I’d love to see hospitals rebelling and saying no we aren’t doing this. We’ll wear masks when they are needed and not just for show.

30741 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Hubes, 11, #164 of 847 🔗

Walking around the corridors yesterday, I’d say just over half were adhering to the policy, approx 40% NHS staff with no masks on. Promising start for sceptics I’d say

30988 ▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Hubes, 1, #165 of 847 🔗

Yes, surely the right to breathe is officially encoded in some law or other. Unless oxygen is now considered a non-essential item…?

31311 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, 1, #166 of 847 🔗

You’d think the medics would be speaking up about how useless they are. I know they’ve been muzzled against speaking out but there’s safety in numbers.

30768 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hubes, 4, #167 of 847 🔗

That’s encouraging. Long may she live to drill teeth.

31003 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Hubes, 1, #168 of 847 🔗

It would be nice if we could have some sort of list of rational businesses so we could find them. Sadly it would likley be risky for the businesses to be on that register.

31016 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Saved To Death, #169 of 847 🔗

There’s Tony’s small business list right here.

31596 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to annie, #170 of 847 🔗

Yes its a list of small businesses that have opened but does not give any indication of if they are operating in a normal way or the ‘new normal’ way.

31039 ▶▶ Julian S, replying to Hubes, 1, #171 of 847 🔗

And yet my dentist still collected regular Denplan subs despite not being open for the duration. Wish my clients would do the same for me!

31121 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Hubes, 2, #172 of 847 🔗

Well that’s encouraging although my dentist, also terribly apologetic and distressed at having to put safety measures in place,said they can’t operate unless they comply – and that includes all the precautions you have mentioned above and more.

31310 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, #173 of 847 🔗

Lucky you! I can’t believe the bollox I’m supposed to go through to see my dentist. He’s quite an anarchist, so I know the rules have been imposed from above.

30706 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 23, #174 of 847 🔗

Well that’s what happens when you have such a severe lockdown that nobody has built up any immunity. Every single solo case of the virus then becomes a major panic. Professor Giesecke did warn them.

30752 ▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 10, #175 of 847 🔗

I notice that these unfortunates ‘tested positive’. No indication that they were actually ill.

30707 DavidC, 1, #176 of 847 🔗

Toby,
Come on! “ I’d tested positive for immunoglobulin G “.

From Wikipedia “Immunoglobulin G (IgG) is a type of antibody, representing approximately 75% of serum antibodies in humans, IgG is the most common type of antibody found in blood circulation. IgG molecules are created and released byplasma B cells. Each IgG has two antigen binding sites.”

IgG is produced by the body against different infections, it’s NOT produced ONLY in the case of SARS-Cov-2 Covid-19. Unless I’m missing something, and if I am please tell me, you could have had another infection entirely, like a cold or flu.

DavidC

30737 Cristi.Neagu, 10, #177 of 847 🔗

So a Government-managed IT project has failed to deliver and ministers have turned to the private sector for a solution? Who would have thunk it?

Yep. The same private sector that is ruthlessly being punished with IR35, forcing contractors to pay the same taxes as employees but have none of the rights. The Government shooting itself in the foot at every turn. You’d think they’d run out of feet by now.

30740 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #179 of 847 🔗

Government defence to Simon Dolan (pdf)

30834 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #180 of 847 🔗

Skimmed it and while I am no legal expert it looks like the government have covered all the bases.

Lots of respect and credit due to Dolan for doing this, and anything that makes the government’s life difficult is fine by me, but I think it’s ultimately a political rather than a legal issue.

Having a judge say it was illegal would help, but we need the majority of the public to realise it was a huge mistake.

30886 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 4, #181 of 847 🔗

That’s what’s happening, which is why it’s a judicial review. Dolan put his case forward, the government has responded to it.Now the judge decides. It’s a win-win situation as far as I’m concerned. Because either the government acted illegally, which means we’ll never suffer this again, OR the government acted legally, in which case our rights and civil liberties aren’t worth wiping your arse on, so we have to fight for them all over again. But at least we know we’re just oppressed slaves in our own country if that is how the judge finds.

31002 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #182 of 847 🔗

The problem is most seem more then happy to be oppressed slaves and many are keen to join in with the oppression of other slaves.

30895 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 2, #183 of 847 🔗

I’m still not sure how they get round saying schools were only ‘advised’ to close – Boris is on video saying categorically that ‘schools will close until further notice’..nothing about it being optional..

31117 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, 2, #184 of 847 🔗

I think that means the government publicly misrepresented the truth, which isn’t illegal, just (hopefully) politically unwise (if you get caught, which they have been, although this has not been reported by the BBC – but then the case hasn’t been mentioned by the BBC, that I have seen, ever, as it clearly isn’t newsworthy – nothing to see here, move on. They can’t say they didn’t know because I wrote to them about it, ages ago!).

I haven’t looked at it in detail, but I imagine the wording used in official communications to schools and/or local authorities was done very carefully so as to avoid the need to establish a legal basis for closing schools.

31123 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, 1, #185 of 847 🔗

Would ift be a terrible imposition if I suggested changing ‘huge mistake’ to ‘huge con trick’?

31127 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 2, #186 of 847 🔗

I err on the side of generosity and think it was a mistake to start with, caused by lack of courage, leadership skills, intellectual curiousity, competence, and possibly a political desire to be seen to protecting the NHS, as any sign that the Tories are undermining the NHS risks losing the voters gained from Labour last time.

Since the point where they realised it was a mistake, which much have been some time ago, it has indeed been a huge, unforgivable, con trick. In general, using legal means to punish politicians for bad policy decisions is not in my view a good approach, the damage done by this one is so monumental it seems wrong for them to get away with it.

31044 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tom Blackburn, #187 of 847 🔗

My 1st read through it gives me the impression that their defence is “we done it because we could so there, yah boo sucks to you”.

31122 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, #188 of 847 🔗

Yes, but if it turns out that they could, the case is lost.

They’re saying they took scientific advice from experts, and that they have an obligation to save lives.

I’ve got mixed feelings about the case. I hope it succeeds because I want to see these stupid laws overturned and for there to be a public reckoning. On the other hand, I do think this is really political rather than legal. It’s up to our elected representatives to decide whether an “emergency” constitutes a grave enough threat to warrant this kind of reaction.

In this case they took what I think is the wrong approach, but sadly most people agreed with them because we’re apathetic. I still now know lots of people of great intelligence and education who have not spent any time whatsoever checking for themselves what the risks are and what the actual impact of the virus has been, from the perspective of normal annual mortality.

It beggars belief that after months, when your personal life, possibly your professional life, and your country is being obviously wrecked, and you’ve had time on your hands as there’s not much else to do, that you wouldn’t have the first clue about how the virus is panning out and what the likely risks are.

31164 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 2, #189 of 847 🔗

I know what you mean about people not even checking or researching anything, too apathetic and just swallowed the official line hook, line an drinker as it was the easiest route to follow.

Been driving me nuts and when they answer “so we’re being lied to?” all surprised like I want to smack them upside the head.

From the utter contempt the MPs have shown towards their constituents I don’t hold out much hope that they will do anything until it all reaches tipping point and they will all jump on the bandwagon shouting out they were against it all from the beginning.

In the answer to Simon Dolan’s action they haven’t even tried to give justifications, quote experts or such like that I can see, will have a thorough read of it later. When you consider how many people die in the UK each year on average and during bad flu seasons the 40000 is only a small blip on the statistics – yes, each one an individual tragedy for someone but justified destroying the economy of the country, millions of livelihoods, many more collateral deaths and collapse of society?

I should get back next week an answer to my FOI request about what advice was given to Matt Hancock prior to his “serious and imminent threat declaration” on Feb 10th, Should be interesting if they do answer.

31174 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #190 of 847 🔗
31180 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #191 of 847 🔗

I can understand a certain amount of apathy about “business as usual” politics and government, but if half the world is shut down and normal life altered for you and your family beyond recognition, with no end in sight, you’d think it would get people’s attention.

In the answer to Simon Dolan’s action they haven’t even tried to give justifications, quote experts or such like that I can see”

I think the justification is that the government took appropriate expert advice so it was within their power to do what they did. I think the lawyers and the government will want to shy away from any argument about who was right or which experts called it most accurately, and will stick to claiming that the proper process was followed.

One angle that I don’t know was exploited or not was whether there was any serious attempt at doing an assessment of the cost side of the equation in terms of damage to health, the economy and to human freedom and happiness. I doubt there was. If ONE person was in danger from a new virus, you wouldn’t shut the country down indefinitely, would you? Once you’ve accepted that, you’ve accepted tha saving lives at all costs is immoral, and you then need to weigh the costs againsts the benefits.

31196 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 1, #192 of 847 🔗

I’m sure there was an interview a few days ago with one of the SAGE Committee members and he said something along the lines of “the economic and personal cost was not thought about or taken into consideration”.

I’m only paraphrasing as I just caught the summary while skipping through the internet one evening and didn’t read the whole thing.

Now you’ve jogged my memory I may try and find it.

31409 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #193 of 847 🔗

Unfortunately they think they do have a clue because they swallow all the “facts” pumped out by the beeb and the msm.

30743 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 9, #194 of 847 🔗

The problem seems to be that Boris, or any other PM for that matter, only listens to a very small number of advisers who basically filter all the news so he only hears what they want him to hear and the mainstream media. All PMs seem to believe what the MSM say and have the mistaken belief that it represents what the people in the country are thinking. I find it incredible, though, that as Prime Minister you wouldn’t research the important topics yourself. Of course, a lot of info is being banned on Google and youtube that differs from the official narrative but still, if everyone on this site can find the truth, why can’t he?

Until this form of governance is stopped we will always be in this situation. We cannot change what the advisers tell him so is there any way to influence the press to start telling the truth? I know this is difficult, particularly as the editors all probably have shares in big pharma for a start, but there must be something we could do.

I guarantee that if all the newspapers started printing stories that the lockdown was a disaster and social distancing must be scrapped immediately, Boris would comply.

30756 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Stephen McMurray, 7, #195 of 847 🔗

Johnson is too lazy to do his own research. He’s never been a details man. That’s why he relies on these advisors so much, hence why he probably didn’t sack Cummings during the whole Durham debacle.

30821 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Stephen McMurray, 1, #196 of 847 🔗

Waiting for the vaccine to be available.

30866 ▶▶ annie, replying to Stephen McMurray, #197 of 847 🔗

They will be doing so before long.

30882 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Stephen McMurray, 6, #198 of 847 🔗

Prior to 1997, MPs used to go to their constituencies at the weekend, meet constituents and feed back to the government/opposition leaders depending on party. After 1997, under that nice Mr Blair with his Cheshire cat smile and crooked teeth (the first hint all was not well), we started to have a more “presidential” form of government, when MPs were sent to their constituencies with “the message” to pass on to the plebs.

It’s been that way ever since, whoever is in power.

30751 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 13, #199 of 847 🔗

Have just thought how to end this debacle. Obvioulsy the government are holding out for a vaccine courtesy of Mr Gates. Well, all we have to do is get Black Lives Matter on board. After all, Bill Gates has been accused of killing and maiming children in Africa and India with his experimental vaccines so I’m sure BLM would be only to happy to start protesting about the dangers of a very rich white man using his privilege to hurt African and Indian children with his vaccines

30760 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Stephen McMurray, 3, #200 of 847 🔗

TeeHee: that really would be platinumy (several grades up on irony)!

30782 ▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Stephen McMurray, 5, #201 of 847 🔗

Just my thought: let’s get the Wokes on board! The moment anything related to the (incompetence which led to the) lock-down becomes part of Woke orthodoxy this will be over in no time.

My reasoning went along the line of “Is our (Western) corona response institutionally racist?” (See https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/06/15/latest-news-56/#comment-29305 )

The short version: it is mainly black people in the Third World who are going to die because of the socio-economic fallout of the lock-downs in the West, while the ones which were supposedly protected by those lock-downs were (mostly) white elderly Europeans/Americans. So white lives are worth more than black lives apparently.

And talking about vaccines: currently corona vaccine testing is already being done in (I think) Brazil. We can therefore add to all this that it is black people who are being subjected to medical testing so white people can live. Sounds like Mengele to me!

So why are the Woke types not yet shouting that the lock-downs are racist? Because although I don’t like it when people throw terms such as racism around all day long, oddly enough that’s what those lock-downs actually are: racist.

Now how can we get this in the heads of the good people at The Guardian…?

30855 ▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 1, #202 of 847 🔗

We should have got the Wokes on board at the outset. They’d spent the last 4 years trying to keep open borders and free movement across Europe. Then the virus came along and governments reacted by closing the borders and stopping free movement any further than the nearest grocery store. Why are they not shouting that lockdowns are extreme Brexit?

31419 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #203 of 847 🔗

They don’t understand logic.

31472 ▶▶▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Cheezilla, #204 of 847 🔗

But that’s the whole point: they don’t have logic, just “feelings”. Now if we can put the idea that lock-downs are racist (or something like that) into their “feelings” things would become a lot easier.

30930 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 3, #205 of 847 🔗

No can do. Heads impenetrable.

30963 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 1, #206 of 847 🔗

Are there any good people at the Guardian?

31015 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #207 of 847 🔗

Are there any people – as we know them?

31001 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 3, #208 of 847 🔗

Wokeness has nothing to do with actually caring about people, its about being manipulated into serving certain purposes.

31417 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to WillemKoppenhol, #209 of 847 🔗

I know several Brazilians and all of them are white caucasian.

31474 ▶▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Cheezilla, #210 of 847 🔗

And other Brazilians aren’t. But that’s not really the point, we are not talking about logic or facts, we are talking about Woke feelings. As long as it can be framed as “racist” we should be fine. And since you can frame anything…

30793 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Stephen McMurray, 3, #211 of 847 🔗

Not just killing – his vaccines were given only to women, because they contained a sterilising agent so the women could no longer bear children..

30820 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Stephen McMurray, 3, #212 of 847 🔗

Indeed the vaccine has been Hancock’s main objective since the start. No wonder we are still in lockdown hell and children not in school.

31420 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #213 of 847 🔗

Hancock was already threatening mandatory vaccinations before Christmas.

31000 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Stephen McMurray, 1, #214 of 847 🔗

You make the mistake of assuming they actually care about people in Africa, India or anywhere else. Their purpose is not to improve peoples life. They are a creation of and further the interests of those who are really behind our lockdown.

30757 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 8, #215 of 847 🔗

Contact tracing app, NHSX failure.
Geraint Lewis – trained in medicine and employed in medical roles ever since.
Matthew Gould – professional civil servant, Foreign Office and Cabinet Office, Ambassador to Israel..
(according to Wikipedia)
Neither seem to have any experience of developing IT systems, or indeed any IT experience at all.
Clearly the obvious choice to run a major IT system development.
How strange it might have failed.

Add NHSsceptic to Lockdownsceptic

30791 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Polemon2, 2, #216 of 847 🔗

Didn’t the person who got the app-developing gig have some close tie to Dominic Cummings? Has he still been paid?

30819 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Carrie, 1, #217 of 847 🔗

Wasn’t Hancock’s brother involved too? Can’t be entirely sure, but seem to remember reading something early on in this fiasco…

31425 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, #218 of 847 🔗

It’s certainly all very incestuous.

30817 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Polemon2, 2, #219 of 847 🔗

HMG aren’t very good at delivering on many major IT projects….

30875 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to T. Prince, #220 of 847 🔗

I think every word after “delivering” is not really needed in that sentence :o))

31125 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to T. Prince, #221 of 847 🔗

Yes, remember i.d. cards only too well. That cost them (well us) billions.

31424 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Polemon2, #222 of 847 🔗

My local NHS trust can’t even communicate between its own departments.
World-beating T&T system? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah……..

30764 mjr, replying to mjr, 17, #223 of 847 🔗

just tuned into BBC to listen to Today programme from this morning to listen to interview with Peter Hitchens (as mentioned in Toby’s Round up)

However caught the end of the previous item which was talking to A level students about going to university
Interviewer – “what would make you feel safe about going to university…”
Becky the snowflake “i’d only feel safe if there was a working vaccine”
ffs!! i cant think of anything to say!

30766 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to mjr, 25, #224 of 847 🔗

Jesus wept. I feel ashamed to be part of this generation. What’s the matter with young people? Why aren’t they absolutely galvanised with the anger that their future is being totally trashed for absolutely no reason?

31133 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Poppy, #225 of 847 🔗

My experience of your generation Poppy (you being an honourable exception) having taught at Universities over quite a few years is that (ironic given that it’s a university) most students are not interested in acquiring knowledge, are not naturally inquisitive and would rather someone else did the work. They don’t question what they’re told and are the most compliant generation of the lot. I’m old enough to remember 1968 and the student revolution then but even in 1985, in the middle of the gruelling, bitter miners’ strike, I was teaching at a university in the north of England where communities were being devastated by pit closures (and bear in mind context here, whatever LS members’ views are of the strike and the political situation at the time) and asked one pretty bright student why they, as a student body, weren’t challenging the university’s orthodoxy on matters that directly affected their welfare. I’ll never forget his reply: ‘I’d rather keep my head down and get my 2:1.’ That was as shocking then as the docility of students today as quoted above.

31134 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella, #226 of 847 🔗

Caveat about the ‘heart condition’. Didn’t see that. but my point about the general demeanour of students today remains. It’s not their fault, it’s the secondary education that was inflicted upon them, courtesy of government.

31429 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 1, #227 of 847 🔗

I went to uni in the early 70s and we had sit-ins, demos, all manner of stuff that the young and idealistic are supposed to do.

Went back to uni in the early 90s. Weren’t even allowed to ban Nestle products from the student union shop.

That was a direct result of Thatcherism. It can only have got much worse since.

31427 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Poppy, #228 of 847 🔗

Especially as the whole draconian nonsense is supposed to be about protecting their grandparents!
The MSM have a lot to answer for and had better start the undoing operation pronto and in earnest.

30772 ▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, #229 of 847 🔗

I did the same thing – followed link from Hitchens’ blog and caught that rather boggling assertion from the student. I went back to check the background and I think she was the one with a heart condition that supposedly makes her vulnerable to severe consequences if she were to get the disease.

Makes it more understandable, though I like to think if it were me I wouldn’t let it stop me going to uni, though it might affect my behaviour in specific contexts (eg staying further away fro someone sneezing and coughing). Who knows what medical advice she’s had, though.

30784 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, #230 of 847 🔗

didnt listen to all of it so missed the heart condition bit, and if that is the case then understandable. However given the profile of the covid sufferers isnt she safer surrounded by other 19 year olds rather than being at home .

30790 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, 2, #231 of 847 🔗

Well in reality I think if she avoids crowded socialising and snogging she’s probably pretty safe anyway. Then again, that probably would rather detract from the attraction of going to university for a young’un, I suspect…

30797 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, 2, #232 of 847 🔗

certainly buggers up freshers week!!

30813 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to mjr, 3, #233 of 847 🔗

In parts of Manchester, a lot of new students get buggered up in freshers week…..

31433 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #234 of 847 🔗

Well she’ll have to either grab life and squeeze all the juice out of it while she can, or live her life wrapped in cotton wool. How will she cope if she ever has kids – how will they cope because they’ll probably be locked in the bubble with her?

31440 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mark, #235 of 847 🔗

We had glandular fever when I was at Univesrity in the 1980s.

30999 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Mark, 1, #236 of 847 🔗

Everyone who is vulnerable to severe consequences of this virus has been was vulnerable before this virus came along to other viruses. Their vulnerability is not new. That being said I do have more sympathy for people in such a situation considering the way they will have been terrorised.

31130 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #237 of 847 🔗

Indeed. Leaving aside the extent to which the young lady in question needs to worry, how representative is she of the overall student body, health-wise? A favourite pastime of the BBC, finding victims and unfortunate people.

Life is generally organised to suit the majority. It always has been. As we have become more civilised (though I am beginning to wonder…) and more prosperous, we have wanted to and been able to pay more attention to minorities in any given area – for example, by providing wheelchair access to buildings. This is right and proper, but clearly has limits, and there are tradeoffs.

It is this ability to balance the needs of the many with the needs of the few that has been lacking in this crisis, made even sadder by the fact that the “few” don’t seem to be been helped much, if at all. If Universities keep their campuses largely closed, how is it helping the young lady in question anyway?

31431 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #238 of 847 🔗

The main point is though, that unless she was balanced by a few healthy people, it was all out of proportion – Beeb-style?

30775 ▶▶ PD, replying to mjr, 6, #239 of 847 🔗

That broke my heart too, Where were her critical reasoning skills?
i bet she ‘knows’ from St. Greta that icebergs are melting so fast that polar bears can’t catch enough penguins anymore

30795 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to PD, 12, #240 of 847 🔗

and those they do catch, they cant get the wrappers off

30841 ▶▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to mjr, 1, #241 of 847 🔗

But they can eat Tim Tams when we have a trade deal with Australia.

31434 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to mjr, #242 of 847 🔗

Penguins? Do they still make them? I thought they were “extinct”?

30870 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to PD, #243 of 847 🔗

So do you think polar bears are to be found in the Antarctic, or penguins in the Arctic? I’m pretty sure polar bear never meets penguin, except perhaps in a zoo.

31029 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #244 of 847 🔗

clearly PD’s sarcasm has gone completely over your head. It is based on the old joke “why don’t polar bears eat penguins?” “because they can’t get the wrappers off” acknowledging that the expected and logical answer to the question is that they live on opposite sides of the world (except the Galapagos penguins that live north of the equator) but replacing it with the response that polar bears eat chocolate bars. a variation on the joke giving a a conflicting meaning via a logical incompatibility which obviously subverts zoological facts which PD will aware of

31446 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #245 of 847 🔗

Well that killed that joke dead flat!

31438 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PD, #246 of 847 🔗

Good one. Hahaha!

30808 ▶▶ IanE, replying to mjr, #247 of 847 🔗

I bet she was the typical would-be student now, weighing in at 15 stone and 5 foot tall: if so I guess Covid really might be a risk to her. Otherwise mugging (or worse) would be orders of magnitude more likely!

31437 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to IanE, #248 of 847 🔗

You must live in a strange place if that’s what young women look like where you are Ian!

31447 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to John P, #249 of 847 🔗

Just those interviewed by the BBC!

30810 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to mjr, #250 of 847 🔗

Well, that little twerp should self-isolate until WE say he/she has grown up enough to be let out into the grown ups world….

30818 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to mjr, 1, #251 of 847 🔗

indoctrinated. There are many of them. They would rather get injected with an unproven substance, many long term side effects unknown than building and trusting their own immune systems.

If you have children guide them to look at all information, question and then make an informed decision.

30906 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Victoria, 5, #252 of 847 🔗

I have three kids, all sceptics. Took a while and plenty of reading but they all want to leave the U.K. now.

We are planning on a buying a hotel in Costa Rica and you are all invited to the opening party.

30929 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 2, #253 of 847 🔗

I’ve been there. A warm, beautiful, friendly country, with volcanoes to drop zombies into. Please reserve my place.

30961 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Sarigan, #254 of 847 🔗

They have no lockdown there then?

30847 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to mjr, 1, #255 of 847 🔗

I have found a great vaccine for people too scared of covid to get on with their lives. It’s been around for ages, like hydroxchloroquine or that other one boris likes. It’s called cyanide. I think you can buy it from Boots.

30765 T. Prince, 9, #256 of 847 🔗

THREE (!!!!!!!) new cases? Jesus, how many non-covid deaths have there been in the same period?

30774 SayNoToSuing, replying to SayNoToSuing, 18, #257 of 847 🔗

Looks like we have a new ally in the fight against lockdowns:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/authors/lionel-shriver-talks-allison-pearson-british-people-have-never/

The tide is turning, more and more people are on our side. Though at some point this will eventually become much like how, once the Nais had been pushed back across the Rhine, even those Frenchmen who’d helped the gestapo were saying they’d been in the resistance the whole time. I think we’re all waiting so see some of the notable lockdown proponents breaking ranks.

30789 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to SayNoToSuing, 15, #258 of 847 🔗

Lionel Shriver has always been vehemently anti-lockdown. She’s great, she did a really good interview on Spiked back when it all started.

30804 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #259 of 847 🔗

I love her too. A true Libertarian.

30801 ▶▶ IanE, replying to SayNoToSuing, 1, #260 of 847 🔗

Yes, I see it now, a special ITV programme to celebrate that great anti-lockdown campaigner, Piers Morgan. With the sub-title: should he now be made Peer Morgan?

30833 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to SayNoToSuing, 1, #261 of 847 🔗
30852 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to SayNoToSuing, 2, #262 of 847 🔗

William Hague for example. But I don’t care if they’re late on parade, so long as they turn up! Welcome aboard to all who have changed their minds.

30865 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #263 of 847 🔗

Indeed. Swell the army. Fight the war. Never give up. Victory will be ours.

31137 ▶▶ Bella, replying to SayNoToSuing, #264 of 847 🔗

Who’s turned here? Both the people mentioned in your link have been anti-lockdown since the start, Shriver ferociously so. (Can’t read the article because of paywall which Outline.com doesn’t get around anymore. Anyone got fresh ideas?)

30785 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #265 of 847 🔗

Sir Jeremy Farrar ………………

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_for_Epidemic_Preparedness_Innovations

He’s partly right about lockups though.

31227 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #266 of 847 🔗

Lies work better when wrapped in a smigeon of truth.

30787 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #267 of 847 🔗

A question from simpletons corner over here re-antibody testing;

I thought (my mistake) that only 20% of us produce antibodies, the other 80% have T-cells, cellular Immunity or something that allows our imune system to deal with covid without the need to produce antibodies, so….
Wouldn’t a positive negative test just tell us that we have had covid but didn’t need to make antibodies, or we haven’t had it, but either way we are none the wiser.

Can anybody tell me why antibody tests are of ant use?

30788 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #268 of 847 🔗

Negative test

30798 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Major Panic, 3, #269 of 847 🔗

Exactly. Something I have commented on several times…but still the mantra is repeated that testing will tell us who has “had” the virus. The likelihood is we have seen the worst of the virus’s impact now. We probably have something very like “herd immunity” already.

30845 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to OKUK, 1, #270 of 847 🔗

It certainly looks that way. Due to a combination of the actual exposure being about double the antibody positive rate and the herd immunity threshold being around 20% in most places probably because asymptomatic cases do not spread much (and perhaps a little bit also because of hand-washing and other measures like that)

30815 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Major Panic, 3, #271 of 847 🔗

Build your immune system

30850 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, 2, #272 of 847 🔗

Vit C, Vit D, zinc

30879 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Victoria, 6, #273 of 847 🔗

My immune system is nails. I deliver Chinese food around here. I’m sure I got it after the owners wife returned from China in mid february – I may well be due the credit for herd immunity round here

30892 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Major Panic, #274 of 847 🔗

Maybe 🙂

30890 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Victoria, 1, #275 of 847 🔗

I’ve been doing litter picking around my area for the last few years. Hundreds of hours in my spare time. Maybe that’s why there’s only been one case of coronavirus in this area compared to all the other areas in my town, lol.

30927 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #276 of 847 🔗

What do you do with the zombies you pick up? Bag and bin?

30959 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to annie, 1, #277 of 847 🔗

If only, lol. I have a cabinet full of trinkets though – some really nice ones too.

30839 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Major Panic, 2, #278 of 847 🔗

You are correct that it looks like somewhere between 30% and 80% of cases, if you include the mild ones, result in no antibodies of the kind the test is looking for or only low levels of them.

The test is still useful though. If you test positive you very likely did have Covid. If you test negative that doesn’t really tell you much.

30796 WillemKoppenhol, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 30, #279 of 847 🔗

On the 21st of June (this Sunday) there will be a demonstration in the The Netherlands (The Hague) against the current “anti corona measures” in the Netherlands such as the “1,5 meter society” (note not 2 meters as in the UK) and a new law with ridiculously large powers for the government.

The slogan on that poster reads “De enige afspraak die wij hebben, is dat jij je aan de grondwet houdt, Mark” , which translates to “The only agreement we have is that you stick to the constitution, Mark” .

Mark is Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister who, just like Boris J., panicked last March and destroyed a large part of our civil rights and economy.

You can learn more by going to https://www.viruswaanzin.nl/ . It’s in Dutch but Google Translate can help of course.

30800 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 2, #280 of 847 🔗

Great, but am guessing the British MSM will not report on it..

30811 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 10, #281 of 847 🔗

The Netherlands is defo going on my ‘flee from the UK Commie State’ list.
You guys seem sound.

30842 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Farinances, 3, #282 of 847 🔗

They are. 100%

30838 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to WillemKoppenhol, #283 of 847 🔗

Good to know the rebellion is gathering everywhere. Perhaps speaking a little out of order here, if so I apologise… but OZO.

31471 ▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Nick Rose, #284 of 847 🔗

The rebellion is there, but we are way too friendly in the Netherlands. Just like the Britons by the way. In quite a few other countries a rebellion would have been brewing, some sort of low level civil war. But not here.

30805 Paul, replying to Paul, 31, #285 of 847 🔗

My mum and dad,both in their mid-seventies,were verbally abused by a masked zealot in the shopping centre this morning.They were stood talking to a friend who had just been through awful chemotherapy,when a muzzled lunatic appeared and said angrily,’do you mind,I need to get past you,you are not allowed to stand and talk in here !’,there was about 10 feet of space between my parents and the other wall of the walkway yet this brave soul daren’t walk past them,my dad was furious and said to him ‘keep your hair on, arsehole’ and they didn’t move an inch.I am hearing more of this type of incident from people in the past couple of weeks.It seems the prat wearing the mask must doubt the efficacy of wearing it so why do it ? .
From now on instead of coronaphobics jumping out of my way as if I am radioactive,I’m going to do it in an exaggerated way to those with muzzles on and say ‘keep your germ ridden,sweaty,stale CO2 laden face away from me’.

30864 ▶▶ annie, replying to Paul, 4, #286 of 847 🔗

Right on.
Or thank them, in heavily ironical tones, for keeping their nasty faces covered and so soaring you both their ugly mugs and their germs.

30919 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 1, #287 of 847 🔗

Sorry, ‘sparing’

30996 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Paul, 2, #288 of 847 🔗

Well done your dad, Paul.

30822 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #289 of 847 🔗

A friend of mine went to her local high street – fairly dead, went to M&S where it was laid back nobody tutted when she was touching merchandise. She was told that yesterday they only had 40 people the whole day.

At this rate am not surprised that the high street is doing really badly.

30831 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #290 of 847 🔗

I was in the blackpool shopping centre this week. Masked employees,sanitisers one way system ,it was very quiet ,I didnt go in any shops to much hassle.
Can see not just shops ,but whole shopping centres closing if this goes on for any length of time.
I mean large centres like Trafford just wont survive.
They will.become shrines to the covid insanity.

30868 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, 5, #291 of 847 🔗

That won’t surprise me. Those shopping centres featured in that Carl Vernon video were so ridiculously OTT that its very possible that the public are simply boycotting them because of all the antisocial distancing, the lack of seating and most of all toilets!

30901 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #292 of 847 🔗

Sadly I think a lot are still boycotting out of fear.

30907 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, 4, #293 of 847 🔗

True. But I have been gladdened by comments I’ve seen in the likes of the Times, Daily Telegraph, Daily Mail, You Tube and even Twitter where people have said that they won’t go into the shops unless antisocial distancing is ditched, no masks, no gloves, no temperature checks, when the seats are restored and toilets reopened.

30854 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #294 of 847 🔗

Hopefully desperation for customers will help to see off coronapanic restrictions in the high streets.

30867 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark, 1, #295 of 847 🔗

I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s why my friend had no problems at M&S. It was like another friend who went to Waterstones, she was the only customer and so they waved her through, no problem at all.

30872 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #296 of 847 🔗

Even if some of the staff might be inclined to be bossy, it’s possible even some of those ones are starting to really worry about future employment prospects at their store if they don’t get more customers in somehow. It’s not as though the high streets were exactly minting it before the panic after all.

30893 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark, 4, #297 of 847 🔗

That’s very possible. A lot of these shops are hanging in the balance or on their last legs, if they annoy customers then that will really hit their sales hard – complaints, negative online reviews and boycott could finish them off for good.

30898 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #298 of 847 🔗

Problem is, if they do close and we are forced to shop online, then it makes it easier foe the government to abolish cash, because obviously online you use a card to pay..

30909 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 1, #299 of 847 🔗

That is a big problem agree. It’s amazing at how big business/retail has been supine in all of this – its not been a good first week for them and the weather hasn’t been great either so people will stay away even more.

30939 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Mark, 8, #300 of 847 🔗

The high street has been in difficulty for years with large numbers of shops closing due to variety of factors and to make things even worse shops have gone almost three months not being able to trade and are imposing regulations which put customers off. Even the supermarkets have not completely gained from the current situation. They can’t operate their cafes and I am curious how much revenue supermarkets have lost due to this.

I have argued before that phased reopening of different business creates problems in business which feed off each other. Shops can open but restaurants, pubs and cafes can’t which means they are missing out on the trade from shoppers and people may be put off visiting high streets if they have nowhere to eat or drink. If hotels and visitor attractions are closed, shops miss out on the trade from tourists.

31461 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #301 of 847 🔗

Unfortunately, it’s up to “the authorities” not the businesses.

30823 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 20, #302 of 847 🔗

The WSJ article made me laugh, in particular this line:

“A Massachusetts General Hospital model predicted more than 23,000 deaths within a month of Georgia reopening but the state had only 896.”

Modelling seems to be the new alchemy.

30827 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #303 of 847 🔗

Also filed under “quack”

30851 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #304 of 847 🔗

Snake oil

31329 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #305 of 847 🔗

At least alchemy claimed to turn base metal into gold.

30824 Fiat, 2, #306 of 847 🔗

Went for the daily exercise in the local park. Very busy as usual. For the first time in 12 weeks not a single mask wearer …… until the very end, when I saw a group of three people, two masked up.
So disappointed…….

30826 Nic, replying to Nic, 7, #307 of 847 🔗

Watching league football play offs on sky,no crowd ,no atmosphere staff in masks absolutely shocking.
Cant see pro football under premier level
Surviving if this social distancing nonsense
Continues in to next season.

30828 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nic, 6, #308 of 847 🔗

Football fans should demand an end to this and protest in the streets

30844 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Victoria, 1, #309 of 847 🔗

Agree

30920 ▶▶▶ Athanasius, replying to Victoria, 5, #310 of 847 🔗

Unfortunately the fans I know seem to be the most lockdown zealous of anyone. The forums I frequent are full of, “it’s too soon”, and “how can we think about sport when people are dying “ (no one usually dies during the football season you see).
And don’t get me started on the players moaning “it’s not safe”. Seriously, how many professional footballers have died from CV19? These are young men, athletes in their prime.
I love football (although the premier league etc has been depressing me for some time), but all this combined with the Uber-woke taking the knee and BLM instead of players’ names on the shirt, fake crowd noise, etc makes it cease to be even a slightly enjoyable pastime.

31481 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #311 of 847 🔗

Singing Swing Low Sweet Chariot?

30829 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 3, #312 of 847 🔗

>How long before the tallest building in the world becomes the tallest ruin in the world?

Not long

30835 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Edgar Friendly, 6, #313 of 847 🔗

Surely it should be pulled down: Arabs were very big in the slave-trading world for centuries!

30853 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to IanE, 5, #314 of 847 🔗

Still are, by all accounts

30849 ▶▶ Skippy, replying to Edgar Friendly, #315 of 847 🔗

About 2 weeks. The sane difference between a tourist and a racist

30836 Nic, replying to Nic, 9, #316 of 847 🔗

Let’s face it a vibrant society is impossible if social distancing remains, i can see mass rioting in the autumn as the frustration of it all grows.

30857 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, 6, #317 of 847 🔗

That’s what some of us have been predicting here. Once the number of job losses, businesses going under and bankruptcy skyrocket then people could take matters into their own hands.

30880 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #318 of 847 🔗

The government have banned demos starting this weekend,interesting to see what happens.
Tensions are continuing to build and the demos last weekend were more to do with. Lockdown frustration than statues in my opinion

30911 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, 1, #319 of 847 🔗

It will be interesting agree but am convinced that people who are convinced that they have nothing to lose will do it regardless. The government should be very afraid of the ordinary people not the wokerati.

30924 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nic, 10, #320 of 847 🔗

ANY society is impossible with s.d. If allowed to continue (WHICH WE WILL NEVER ALLOW) it would take us back to well before the Old Stone Age.
Humans are social animals. Without society they are less than animals, as we’ve been seeing proved every day for weeks.
And talking of animals, I agree with Vernon Coleman: sheep are far superior to zombies in every way. Let’s stop calling the zombies ‘sheeples’, it’s an insult to sheep.

30928 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #321 of 847 🔗

A few years ago I received one of those joke Ladybird books as a secret Santa gift – it was entitled “The Zombie Apocalypse”

How prophetic that book has turned out to be.

30840 GetAGrip, replying to GetAGrip, 6, #322 of 847 🔗
30900 ▶▶ LuluJo, replying to GetAGrip, #323 of 847 🔗

Hooray! We have one of his pubs in our town. There is a God indeed!

30974 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to GetAGrip, 1, #324 of 847 🔗

Quote from. BBC report…

But some health experts fear that opening venues such as pubs or restaurants too early could increase the number of coronavirus cases, especially as outbreaks reoccur in countries such as China.

The pub / restaurant chain in question operates in South East and South Midlands of England.

If you look at what happens elsewhere on the planet people will never be allowed to reopen.

31144 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #325 of 847 🔗

Wish they’d name these ‘health experts’ who are so fearful. It’s like ‘government spokesman’. They make it up. I did six months on a local rag yonks ago when I thought journalism might be my career (ha ha) and used to make up all the quotes because the sources themselves were deadly dull.

30977 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to GetAGrip, #326 of 847 🔗

That Mr. Wetherspoon should join in too.

30843 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 21, #327 of 847 🔗

In case you hadn’t heard; in Scotland (pop. 5.5 million) there were 11 new cases and 2 deaths. Why are there any restrictions AT ALL in that country?

30848 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Tenchy, 14, #328 of 847 🔗

Yes but shes worried about a second wave !,best to maintain it for another 3 months and also get rid of all those pesky small businesses for good
All done for our own good of course.

30856 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 5, #329 of 847 🔗

And in Northern Ireland – 1 case and no deaths!

30899 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to Tenchy, 7, #330 of 847 🔗

Sturgeon is a control freak – she’s loving every minute of it.

30971 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tenchy, 3, #331 of 847 🔗

Because the economy has a slight chance of recovery and we would not want that would we.

Best wait until the tourist season Is over.

31006 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Tenchy, #332 of 847 🔗

They seem to think they are winning Yes votes.

31128 ▶▶▶ andrew_, replying to TyLean, 1, #333 of 847 🔗

This particular SNP (ex-)voter will never vote for la Sturgeon again.

30869 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 23, #334 of 847 🔗

Is anyone else finding the ‘re-opening’ of non-essential shops really anti-climactic, and conducive to a feeling of hopeless emptiness?

So my boyfriend and I have a little ritual where we go into town and go to all our favourite shops in a certain order, and then to Pret for some lunch. We tried to recreate this the other day and suffice to say, it was a disappointment. It wasn’t even as if it was a huge failure or anything, just a really ineffectual, abortive, anti-climatic downer. I didn’t even bother with Pret in the end because the appeal for me is being able to get one of their delicious soups and eat it inside the café, but they were selling them cold to heat up at home. I thought, well if I have to go home to eat this, I may as well just eat the food I have at home and save money! The only shop I ‘enjoyed’ (not really the most appropriate word here) was Hotel Chocolat – I’ve always had expensive taste when it comes to chocolate and they had a lot of marked down choc on sale so we stocked up on that, and HC was one of the shops with the least intrusive measures.

I think that’s the issue; a lot of the shops we went into didn’t necessarily have intrusive or obstructive social distancing measures; just the usual ugly stickers on the floor, muzzled shop assistants, perspex screens and placebo one-way systems that no-one really pays attention to. Our shopping experience wasn’t really impeded in any significant way, but I couldn’t help but feel as if something is just a little off. It’s as if it’s in the corner of my eye, on the tip of my tongue. I’m trying to be as normal and optimistic as possible but I have this niggling voice at the back of my head that something is very wrong. I think it’s because I know deep down that the worst is yet to come and that there’s a faint ringing noise in everyone’s ears, a ringing that has been going on for the past 3 months, and which gets louder and louder with each day this lunacy drags on for. Soon it will be deafening. There’s something so truly empty and hollow about being encouraged to spend money by the government in the shadow of a tsunami of economic armageddon.

It’s sad because I’m really trying to enjoy this time with my boyfriend after so long apart but it feels so ersatz and my depression is still really bad, and I feel terrible because I know it affects him as well and I feel like I’m being really ungrateful of his presence, even though I’m not ungrateful at all. It takes a lot of energy to be optimistic but I am trying. I’m just so worried about our future and that in 2 years’ time, once he’s graduated, we’ll still be living with our parents, unable to find proper jobs and unable to have any sort of meaningful adult life together.

30876 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Poppy, 7, #335 of 847 🔗

I’m really sorry to hear this my thoughts are with you I keep writing to my mp etc telling him peoples thoughts on this we have to let the government know how we feel.

30883 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 7, #336 of 847 🔗

You’re not the only one Poppy. As I mentioned below, two people I know have ventured into their local high streets and according to them its been dead to the point that they were the only customer and with my friend who went to M&S it was relaxed, they let her touch the merchandise and weren’t bothered about the stickers and one way systems.

Like you I feel that this exhortation to shop has an air of reality to it, its as if the government is still blind to the fact that we are heading towards an economic armageddon and all they’ve done is delay, delay and rely on useless measures.

I’m really convinced and can feel it in my bones, that we will see rioting in the streets soon.

30884 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #337 of 847 🔗

“air of unreality” – DOH!!!

30885 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #338 of 847 🔗

Yes, you’re right, the fact that town was so empty also contributed to the feeling of unreality. The juxtaposition of that emptiness with the huge queues outside Sports Direct and Primark is even stranger. I feel like I’m in the middle of some bizarre Derren Brown experiment where everyone pretends to be normal but nothing is as it seems.

30889 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 7, #339 of 847 🔗

I’ve found the queues outside Sports Direct and Primark bizarre – it seems like it smacked of desperation to me.

I think people don’t like to be patronised and are not happy with being treated like lepers as well and that’s why they’re staying away.

30912 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #340 of 847 🔗

I heard that the queues at Sports Direct were because they were giving a 50% discount to the heroes.

31014 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #341 of 847 🔗

Wet weekend coming up.
End of queues.

31040 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #342 of 847 🔗

Yep and people who are going to National Trust properties for instances will demand refund of their tickets.

31098 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to annie, 1, #343 of 847 🔗

or an opportunity to sell unbrellas

31147 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, #344 of 847 🔗

I can’t believe those queues weren’t staged, Who in their right mind would queue for that crap?

30956 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Poppy, #345 of 847 🔗

That is a good description.

30964 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Poppy, 1, #346 of 847 🔗

I remember that feeling of unreality. It happened in the office back in March just before lockdown.

30888 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #347 of 847 🔗

Well I think it’s time to start ripping down notices. I ripped my first antisocial distancing notice down yesterday.

30918 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 5, #348 of 847 🔗

Keep at it. It feels good. There are hundreds of the buggers just begging to be ripped.Sanity therapy.

30953 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to annie, #349 of 847 🔗

The ones encased in glass are a bit trickier..

30995 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #350 of 847 🔗

They are not blind to the fact they are clearly deliberately creating the economic armageddon and the puppet masters already have plans for the aftermath.

30887 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Poppy, 6, #351 of 847 🔗

There are millions of us out there. Hang in there, we will win this battle!

30962 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Jonathan Castro, 5, #352 of 847 🔗

We have to win this battle otherwise what are we leaving for our children & their children?

30917 ▶▶ Anon, replying to Poppy, 9, #353 of 847 🔗

I had the same experience. Shops quiet, two ‘sanitiser bouncers’ at entrances (friendly, but depressing), social distancing warnings in place of music, no touching, no trying on. All the fun stripped out. No benefit over online shopping. Came away feeling pretty depressed as I doubt people will want to shop like this, which doesn’t bode well for the staff.

Worse still is that I don’t think reducing distancing from 2 metres to 1 metre will resolve the fundamental issue which is that it’s now a miserable experience. Shops need to make further changes. Playing music would be a good start (does anyone benefit from the fucking tannoy warnings on repeat?!).

30931 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Anon, 2, #354 of 847 🔗

Gosh you’re right, I hadn’t realised at the time but I remember now that hardly any of the shops I went into had music playing. Just silence. Not really sure how that’s beneficial to the shopping experience. I definitely think that contributed to the feeling of strangeness

30966 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Anon, 6, #355 of 847 🔗

At the very beginning of this madness, we shopped at Morrisons, later on in the evening when it was quiet, they turned half the lights off.

It was grim, I commented to my wife that shopping behind the iron curtain must have been like this, half empty shelves and shopping in semi darkness, and just the monotone voice on the PA telling us to socially distance etc.

30957 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Poppy, 10, #356 of 847 🔗

Amazing for a virus that’s virtually disappeared. It’s a con and they’re going to take it as far as they can while people acquiesce.

30982 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to Poppy, 6, #357 of 847 🔗

Our local Somerset market town was little better. Only one charity shop open, which was full because it had the maximum 6 people inside already. I m not queuing to go in a charity shop. Most shops nearly empty, half dark and spookily quiet. We were the only 2 in Waterstones where we went out of curiosity. The 2 assistants were both wearing visors - and complaining about them steaming up. They didn t have the book I wanted anyway. The only place that was noticeably busy was Primark, which had a huge queue outside, controlled by a bouncer. Why anybody would need to spend ages in a queue to buy some cheap poorly made shite that will soon fall apart or shrink is beyond me. The town looked shabbier and more unkempt than usual. The lack of people only served to amplify the amount of homeless/drug addicts/ alcoholics shambling around the litter strewn shithole. It was a bit like Mad Max but with rubbish weather.

31028 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Poppy, 2, #358 of 847 🔗

Tip on Hotel Chocolat: they probably have loads of stuff out the back which is past its sell-by-date and thus can’t sell at all … they’ve usually got a charity box by the till.

I’m waiting for some of those £16 slabs to be marked down. My local didn’t have any this week, but as the end of June and end of July approach there may be some available soon.

It’s an ill wind …

31052 ▶▶▶ Marion, replying to TJN, #359 of 847 🔗

Ah…but with the dentists behaving as idiotically as they are…? As Pam Ayers(I think that was her name) wrote: Oh I wish I’d looked after me teeth…

31120 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Poppy, 4, #360 of 847 🔗

This so called opening up is really just the next phase of their assault on humanity. In Spain discos and nightclubs can open but without dance floors. The bastards are playing with us.

31150 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to paulito, 3, #361 of 847 🔗

As I said a couple of days ago: The Taliban have come to town.

30873 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, #362 of 847 🔗

Rhodes Must Fall

Why?

It will cost this ‘entrepreneur’ dear if he makes up the losses from the current donors. And I see his company is into identity management systems. He’ll be cheering all the way for Wuhan flu, then.

30891 Laura, 7, #364 of 847 🔗

Just when will New Zealand, which relies heavily on tourism, realize that you cannot eliminate a virus??

30896 Hoppy Uniatz, 3, #365 of 847 🔗

Well I hadn’t been doing the Clap for Carers but I think this lady deserves a round of applause tonight for trying her best to fill all those empty Nightingale Hospital beds

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-53095457/nurse-drives-the-wrong-way-down-m4-motorway-near-cardiff

30897 andrew_, replying to andrew_, 7, #366 of 847 🔗

Hi, first time poster here from Scotland. I am utterly exasperated by the completely disproportionate response we are enduring from a dogmatic, devoid of empathy “leader” and the consequent assault on our freedoms, but this pales into nothing compared with what I saw today on Twitter. A poor woman has posted that her mother has been driven to take her own life due to the lockdown. I can’t imagine the level of pain experienced and the level of bravery required to go public with that, but I feel it is likely there will be, and almost certainly have already been, many similar cases. I’m not going to name names, it being churlish to intrude in that way.

31543 ▶▶ annie, replying to andrew_, #367 of 847 🔗

There MUST be a reckoning for the sake of victims like this poor lady. Please keep the details available, because the forthcoming murder trials will require precise evidence.
Yes, it is murder, It’s going on all the time in ‘care’ homes, using the weapons of neglect, enforced loneliness and selfish staff fear. Anecdotal evidence, heart- rending as it is, must be converted into hard, verifiable evidence that will get the murderers strung up.

30902 Carausius, replying to Carausius, 30, #368 of 847 🔗

Today I went to the dentist (in Grantham). How lucky was that? I hear you say. Indeed. We were called last week to be given a check-up appointment which had been postponed from April.

The dentist was equipped for full-scale intercontinental germ warfare. I had to laugh. Poor chap – he looked like he’d been buried in PPE and then inserted into a spacesuit. I went in with my wife. We had to go in together. Why? Because after we’d been in the dentist isn’t allowed to use the room for an hour. Why an hour? I asked. He said, ‘I don’t know, it’s just some arbitrary rule. It isn’t evidence-based’.

Can you believe that? So, apparently if you fly into the UK you have to be quarantined for 14 days. The virus allegedly can live for up to 72 hours on some surfaces. But amazingly in a dental surgery it’s a mere 60 minutes before it’s neutralized. Perhaps people flying in from overseas should be rushed straight to a dental surgery – after an hour they’ll be in the clear.

Every day this is getting more like a medieval freak show of meaningless superstitious solutions. I had to go to two plumbers’ merchants on Monday to get some tools and bits for a DIY repair. The first was set up for the Black Death with barriers, miles of tape, pallets to define an entrance corridor and screens that would have stopped an Exocet, precautions turned into a complete joke when the assistant handed me the receipt through a gap in the screen big enough for half a dozen bubonic-plague carrying rats to climb through. The second made do with some scuffed 2m distancing stickers on the floor.

Sainsbury’s allows so few people in there’s a guaranteed queue outside. At Asda there’s no queue, twice as many people and apparently normal service.

The lockdown always was a joke but even in its twisted logic it could only ever have made sense if it was all the same everywhere. Instead we’ve ended up with a Lockdown Tower of Babel, with almost everywhere coming up with its own bonkers version of the rules, not one of which is going to be remotely effective because everywhere is different.

Somebody please put me in a coma for five years and let me wake up in 2025 when this is all over. Preferably in another country. Anywhere. Anywhere but here.

30922 ▶▶ annie, replying to Carausius, 3, #369 of 847 🔗

‘Lockdown Tower of Babel’.
Good one!

30943 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Carausius, 5, #370 of 847 🔗

@Carausius you personal experience just adds to the madness we have perviously heard about:

Dr Vernon Coleman told us about this a few days ago, but it sounded a bit over the top.

https://youtu.be/8lsv793gH4I

Carl Vernon gave us this video.

https://youtu.be/s1VZUCK6xOI

What is this going to do to those people who are nervous of going to the dentist?

Just hand dental work over to one of those robots they use for decommissioning nuclear power plants, where the operator is a safe distance from the nuclear waste.

31067 ▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #371 of 847 🔗

Time to take photos and videos of the social distancing measures employed by various shops and businesses, have a compilation and a competition to see which one is the craziest)

30994 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Carausius, 3, #372 of 847 🔗

What makes you think it will be better in 5 years? Peoples compliance only ensures it gets worse.

31102 ▶▶▶ Carausius, replying to Saved To Death, 3, #373 of 847 🔗

Because something else will have happened by then to divert everyone’s attention and hysteria on to that instead. You may depend upon it. It might be just as bad, but at least it’ll be different.

31287 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carausius, #374 of 847 🔗

Sounds just like Carl Vernon’s latest video on dentist appointments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1VZUCK6xOI

30905 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #375 of 847 🔗

My granddaughter is staying with me and we’ve been working through the Harry Potter films.

Order of the Phoenix tonight and it’s scarily prophetic!

31013 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #376 of 847 🔗

Yes, and things get worse, but the right side wins in the end.
Let’s all practise our unforgivable curses. Used on Covibullies, they are firgivable.

31496 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #377 of 847 🔗

The Order of the Phoenix was a resistance movement.

30910 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #378 of 847 🔗

90k are isolating through track and trace! What the actual fuck?

30915 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 3, #379 of 847 🔗

They think.

30933 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sarigan, 2, #380 of 847 🔗

Seen somewhere today that track & trace people are only locating 1 in 4 people, otherwise that 90k people would be a much bigger number.

Though this was on BBC News website cannot find it now.

30942 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #381 of 847 🔗

BBC = Bullshit Brainwashing Crap 😉
I don’t believe a word they say.

30950 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to RDawg, 5, #382 of 847 🔗

When our TV license come up for renewal we are going to can it. I suspect we will not be alone.

We no longer watch much TV, and the final bit of faith in The BBC was lost with cv19.

30955 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #383 of 847 🔗

Goodo. I got rid of mine a few years back.

31024 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #384 of 847 🔗

DD, ditch it now – you can get a refund. I did it last week and it felt great!

31018 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Sarigan, 3, #385 of 847 🔗

Or did most of these 90k say “yes sure” when asked to isolate but are in fact carrying in with their lives? 😉

30914 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #386 of 847 🔗

Speaking of medieval freak show (thanks Carausius), here’s one that made me go “WTF????”:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1VZUCK6xOI

30916 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #387 of 847 🔗

Saw that before I came on here this evening, what are we allowing to happen.

30936 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dave #KBF, #388 of 847 🔗

Exactly. The comments are spot on.

30926 Gracie, replying to Gracie, 2, #389 of 847 🔗

Has anyone noticed that the time between these pointless “reviews” has been extended from three to four weeks? The next one won’t be until June the 25th for some completely arbitrary reason.

31285 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gracie, 1, #390 of 847 🔗

And they are getting away with it…!!!

30932 Dave #KBF, 8, #391 of 847 🔗

Emergency trip to optical today, unfortunately put my specs on and they broke.

So how is a CV19 trip to get an eye test and order a new pair of specs?

Small independent optician, not a chain.

Arrived at due time, door unlocked and I was allowed in to shop, asked to use alcohol hand sanitiser, said I would rather not, asked to use soap and water, no problem with that.

Assistant to the optician was wearing N95 mask, I was not asked to wear a mask (thankfully).

Shown through to see optician, she said that her governing body has said that to reopen they had to use PPE, the optician wore N95 mask & disposable apron, no visor, no over shoe coverings. I had seen similar at a large chain optician last week.

After eye test, when I sat for a few minutes to look at new frames & discuss options for lenses, the lady helping me her glasses started to mist up, and I was the first customer in at 09:00 this morning.

Personally I would struggle to wear a muzzle all day.

As for the optician / owner of the business, she has just been closed for three months, staff furlough, but no income for her, now she has the additional cost of PPE, but fewer customers as they are only dealing with emergencies at the moment. I was lucky to get a cancellation.

I hope they survive as they are really good opticians.

30940 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 2, #392 of 847 🔗

The philosopher Karl Popper once described us as the most ‘easily governed’ people in the world, and he didn’t mean it in an entirely complimentary way.


There is no complimentary meaning to that description.

30978 ▶▶ matt, replying to JohnB, 5, #393 of 847 🔗

There is.

We’re alone in the world in having had at least partially consensual government for more than a millennium. Our system of common law has always meant that we feel we can trust the legal system. This is why our instinct is to follow the law. This is at the root of why the EU didn’t work for the instincts of the British people – we follow the rules even if they’re stupid, whereas other nations who don’t have that history feel that rules are there to be bent, broken and subverted, so we rail against the bad rules and they don’t bother with them at all.

That history is to be respected and is not to be dismissed.

Unfortunately, the rule of law and the concept of consensual government has been perverted and railroaded in the last few decades and the culture and psyche have not caught up. Why have we been so compliant with lockdown? Because if the government says it, it must be for the best because I know in my soul that the government acts in my best interests.

It has been true and it _is_ a compliment to our constitutional history that the nation thinks this way, but we’re past that point now.

31468 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 2, #394 of 847 🔗

Mmm, yes and no matt. How much agreement you’d receive from people burned at the stake, Tom Paine, people transported for combining to ask for higher wages, or people who starved in Ireland, I’m not sure. The 20th century saw troops on the streets, and a battleship up the Mersey. Not that consensual.

I have huge respect for common law, and agree it is a major reason the eu would not work here. Being easily governed though, is a bad thing if it leads to situations like the current one. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and all that.

We possibly follow the rules because those with a more rebellious/subversive outlook were hung, transported, or pressed into the navy. Akin to how animal breeders remove aggression/independence from their herds/flocks. 🙂

30946 JohnB, 3, #395 of 847 🔗

The danger/risk is minuscule.

Unlike the danger/risk of this democracy-suspending new world order.

30947 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 16, #396 of 847 🔗

England rugby chiefs to review Swing Low Sweet Chariot anthem amid slavery links.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/06/18/rfu-launches-review-england-rugby-anthem-swing-low-sweet-chariot/

Stop the ride, I want to get off.

30954 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Sarigan, 3, #397 of 847 🔗

Oh ffs!!!!!! Another thing I’m going to have to stop watching.

30960 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bella, 1, #398 of 847 🔗

I cannot stop watching rugby. Will just have to turn the sound down and do our own commentary.

30967 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 6, #399 of 847 🔗

No, really. That’s enough now. I don’t see how I can stay sane anymore.

30976 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to matt, 1, #400 of 847 🔗

I am seething and drowning myself in whiskey

31023 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, #401 of 847 🔗

Me too. And next, no doubt, they will be ‘taking the knee’.

31043 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to kh1485, 2, #402 of 847 🔗

‘Bending the knee’

31375 ▶▶ steve, replying to Sarigan, 2, #403 of 847 🔗

In other news, Welsh rugby fans have been banned from singing Bread of Heaven since it denies other faiths and the gluten intolerant 😀

31537 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to steve, #404 of 847 🔗

Like it!

Can’t bear to sign the Welsh national anthem now because the zombies use it in NHS worship. ‘Her heroic warriors, who gave their blood to make Wales free.’ Oh god.

30948 Cheezilla, 1, #405 of 847 🔗

I’ve been calling for this for weeks. Why shouldn’t businesses open “at customers’ own covid risk” like carparks? Then the wimps can stay away and the rest of us can get on with it.

For employees, as long as it’s restricted to covid 19, I don’t see it as being a huge problem. Those who feel vulnerable could maybe be given options like the freedom to wear masks, or to work away from the frontline. If the clause extends further than covid, then I’d be very wary.

Actually you can’t catch covid 19, as that’s the manifestation of symptoms, not the pathogen itself but let’s not split hairs – though I’m sure the
lawyers will.

30949 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 32, #406 of 847 🔗

Two things really bugging me at the moment with corporate brands:

1. The overuse of the phrase “Stay safe!” What the F does that even mean? No, I plan to be dangerous and walk on live railway tracks. Channel 4 have a permanent patronising watermark at the top left of their screen.

2. Any company offering discount to “NHS heroes”. Why are they heroes? They’re working in empty hospitals having the easiest time of their professional lives.

When are we going to reach a tipping point? When will the tide finally turn? Boris Johnson is the weakest, most pathetic, cowardly, indecisive, bumbling idiot of a Prime Minister this country has ever had. Boris, wake the F up and stop ruining this country you sorry excuse for a human being. Or do us a favour and please resign.

30965 ▶▶ scepticalsue, replying to RDawg, 5, #407 of 847 🔗

Couldn’t agree with you more RDawg, I’m rather hoping that as things calm down there’ll be a wide scale rebellion within the Conservative party and they actually get someone competent in instead.
I’ve heard rumours that Rishi Sunak is tipped to be the next leader.

30972 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to scepticalsue, 12, #408 of 847 🔗

Let’s hope they have a proper clear-out – Hancock and Williamson should never have achieved junior minister status let alone Cabinet.

30986 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to scepticalsue, 13, #409 of 847 🔗

Every sitting MP must go. None of them are competent. None have raised any real objection despite the extreme destruction of our lives and liberty.

30993 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Saved To Death, 10, #410 of 847 🔗

Not one, as far as I know, spoke out against the honouring – in Parliament – of a violent criminal. When not actively supporting the cultural revolution and the insanely dangerous pursuit of equality of outcome (not opportunity) for all, they are weak, evasive, appeasing.

31284 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #411 of 847 🔗

Even Steve Baker – who I thought I could trust – is proving to be a disappointment..

31126 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to scepticalsue, 5, #412 of 847 🔗

All politicians are bought and paid for. Not one of them is working for the people they claim to represent.

31246 ▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to scepticalsue, 2, #413 of 847 🔗

I’ve heard Gove is next in line with Cummings’ backing. That would be truly disastrous.

31283 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to scepticalsue, 1, #414 of 847 🔗

Don’t think Rishi would be any better.. In any case they are all complicit. I believe that it is in any case Mark Sedwill who is the de facto PM..

30987 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to RDawg, 7, #415 of 847 🔗

It would seem the prime minister is essentially irrelevant, whatever is behind all this it is far bigger then Boris Johnson. That doesn’t mean to say he doesn’t need be removed from office and held to account but there is a lot more to this then him.

31012 ▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 11, #416 of 847 🔗

To any moron who uses the nauseating ‘stay safe’ phrases on me, I reply ‘stay human!’.

31017 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to annie, 4, #417 of 847 🔗

I like that! I’m going to steal that idea and use it 😊

31534 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, #418 of 847 🔗

You’re welcome!

31042 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to annie, 1, #419 of 847 🔗

I’m stealing that!

31056 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, 3, #420 of 847 🔗

I respond: Stay Free!

31103 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to annie, 2, #421 of 847 🔗

My response is “stay sane”

30958 steve, replying to steve, 17, #422 of 847 🔗

Stay away from the TV

30979 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to steve, 8, #423 of 847 🔗

Switched off TV at the end of March, best thing we ever did.

31022 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #424 of 847 🔗

Ditto. Got rid of my TV licence last week and felt wonderfully liberated. Even the rubbish I watched to unwind to is so infested with ‘issues’ and ‘messages’ that I reasoned I wouldn’t miss it and I haven’t. Plus, the added satisfaction of saving myself nearly £160 a year!

31046 ▶▶▶▶ Marion, replying to kh1485, 3, #425 of 847 🔗

Me too. Wouldn’t it be great if everyone who left like we do stopped paying the tv tax. I’d love to see how the bbc responded: it thinks everyone except a few ‘right wing loons’ just adores it’s right-on lovely-ness.

31110 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Marion, 1, #426 of 847 🔗

Agree. I think they should just make it subscription only.

31505 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marion, #427 of 847 🔗

I refused to renew mine at the end of last month.
Unfortunately, it’s just what Cummings wants. Played right into his hands!

31011 ▶▶ annie, replying to steve, 4, #428 of 847 🔗

Ugh, it looks just like our rector.
I’m going to stick it on our ( locked) church door.

30969 rodmclaughlin, replying to rodmclaughlin, 9, #429 of 847 🔗

Some of you have probably seen this, from the Guardian: https://archive.is/zpKmJ

The disastrous effect of lockdown on tourism. This doesn’t just mean less pollution in Venice, it means a resort in Kenya laying off 90 workers, each of whom has 10 dependants. Even Guardian readers can understand this and do the maths.

30970 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to rodmclaughlin, 4, #430 of 847 🔗

I wouldn’t be so sure…

30991 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #431 of 847 🔗

Don’t be so quick to judge. 90 workers, each with 20 dependents, that means 5 million people.

30985 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to rodmclaughlin, 6, #432 of 847 🔗

Guardian readers don’t actually care about people particularly poor people in poor countries.

30975 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #433 of 847 🔗

No holds barred, excellent piece from Off Guardian this evening:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/18/lies-damned-lies-and-covid19/

30989 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 1, #434 of 847 🔗

Wow. This is first class.

31094 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Sarigan, 1, #435 of 847 🔗

A brilliant piece of writing. If only everyone could be persuaded to read it, perhaps the scales would fall from many eyes.

30980 Nobody2020, 11, #436 of 847 🔗

Rail subsidies costing UK taxpayer £100 per journey in lockdown
https://bit.ly/30UBTK9

More money wasted. Just think how many lives could have been saved from other causes with all the money lost during all this.

30981 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 18, #437 of 847 🔗

Been thinking, partly/mostly to sort things out for myself. What do people think ?

Our Situation
This is not about a virus. Maybe it was initially, maybe not. That doesn’t matter anymore (apart from dealing with the bad/incompetent/otherwise-agenda’d people using ‘THE VIRUS’ to continue this oppression/social engineering/anti-democratic plan.).

It is, more and more clearly, about the institution of a new world order.

  • 140 governments, including all the big players, in unison.
  • The media, medical organisations, local councils, academia, churches, big tech, all in unison.
  • Absolute disregard of all dissenting scientific/medical/legal voices.
  • House arrest. Suspension of courts, parliament, elections, etc.; instigation of ‘stasi’ culture.
  • ‘Furloughs’.
  • Closing down the Education system.
  • 2m – total bollocks.
  • Masks – total bollocks.
  • Quarantine on entering the UK – total bollocks.
  • Completely inexplicable irrational delay, drawing out, prolonging, of many aspects of the bollocks.


So …

Thoughts re Strategy
The biggest disadvantage – lack of a voice. This site, off-guardian, Icke, Hitchens, Coleman, etc. notwithstanding. Can we obtain or create one, or do we need to pursue one or more different approaches ? It seems likely they are persisting with masks just to emphasise this lack.

The majority of people – damaged; frightened; possibly also lazy, less intelligent, ignorant, ‘comfortable’ at present. Need to be healed, helped, educated, mobilised, somehow.

Allies – small/medium businesses – travel; pubs & restaurants; hospitality, tourism, hairdressers, etc.
Enemies – government; media; devolved governments; big corporations; local authorities; businesses that assume we all want masks, sanitisers, distancing; the Premier League; big pharma;
Tools – truth, humour, evidence, communication, mutual support, beer, cash, …

Tactics
?

30992 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 7, #438 of 847 🔗

Tactics? Don’t bring Icke into this! He’s entitled to his free speech but he will compromise any cause – if he came out against cruelty to puppy dogs, people would begin to eye puppy dogs suspiciously.

31051 ▶▶▶ Anon, replying to OKUK, 6, #439 of 847 🔗

Agreed. ‘New World Order’ will also discredit you. This sort of thing damages the argument as it makes it easy to paint it as yet another tin foil hat conspiracy theory closely tied with the anti-vaccine and anti-5g crowd who are widely ridiculed.

31091 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Anon, #440 of 847 🔗

Although the UN have an official New World Order website:

https://unnwo.org/

31166 ▶▶▶▶▶ EmbraFlaneur, replying to Sarigan, #441 of 847 🔗

A simple glance at the quality of the web design would confirm that the site has nothing to do with the actual United Nations.

31141 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Anon, #442 of 847 🔗

Good thing I didn’t mention it then. The capitalisation is all yours.

These causes/terms are widely ridiculed by the MSM, Anon. You think our battle against tyranny will get airtime if we chose our words in a more pc fashion ?

Given its much increased usage lately, and its accuracy (UN website), it seems to me that preferring the equivalent of ‘a metallic digging implement with a handle’ serves no purpose.

31136 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #443 of 847 🔗

Sheesh. That was obviously my main point, well spotted.

31008 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to JohnB, 9, #444 of 847 🔗

If I’m to be brutally honest, my ass has been in high gear sorting things out for my family (as in, an off-grid, self-sustaining existence), because I don’t believe this is the end; It’s the beginning.

I don’t know what such a tiny minority of sensible people – spread across a vast geographical area – can achieve. I have been thinking of resistance signs, billboards and posters. Not with any hopes of converting anyone, but for the purposes of reaching the sane, rational, lonely people out there. Finding this website and the Lockdown Skepticism Reddit (which took Tor browser and a lot of search configurations) has been a sanity saver for me.

31143 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TyLean, 3, #445 of 847 🔗

Me too Ty.

Signs, billboards, leaflets, etc. are a good starting point. Invading and hijacking the bbc can come later.

31062 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to JohnB, 11, #446 of 847 🔗

A tactics thought based on the cartoon below.
Stickers and posters that take the official messages just a bit further:
“Remain terrified, Question nothing, Stay at home”
Of course some will take these seriously…

31084 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Andy Riley, 2, #447 of 847 🔗

Brilliant, I like that one

31087 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #448 of 847 🔗

T-shirts Toby

31159 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #449 of 847 🔗

please

31146 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Andy Riley, #450 of 847 🔗

This is very good. Switching on printer & laminator … 🙂

31071 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to JohnB, 10, #451 of 847 🔗

Possible tactics in no particular order.

1. When approaching a likely-looking stranger in public, rather than swerving, say “Do you want me to get out of your way?” Depending on their reaction, this can lead to a conversation in which you can find out how sceptical they are. If they are sceptical, give them a card bearing the URL of this site. Word of mouth is the most powerful way to build a groundswell of opposition. It is the wet dream of marketing departments to get this going – this is how books, for example, reach Number 1 on the bestseller list. It is also impossible for the enemy to intercept. Think of it in viral terms. If you can bring over two people, and each of those brings over two more, you’ve got exponential growth right there. But if you can bring over 10 people …

2. A tax strike. Or a tax go-slow to gum up the works. Cancel your DD with the council and tell them you will pay by cheque. Do not send the cheque on time; when they complain say (by letter) that it must have been lost in the post. Send it just in time to stop them taking you to court. Do this every month. Or send a cheque on time for the wrong amount (short by 7p, say). Use your imagination. As for HMRC, if you are self-employed delay your self-assessment for as long as you deem it safe (i.e. to avoid a fine). VAT: buy second-hand whenever possible. Do not buy VAT-rated food (it’s mostly bad for you anyway).

3. Charities. Look into their funding. If any of it comes from the government, give them nothing. This applies to most of the big ones, National Trust, RSPB, etc., which have become arms of the state and a haven for quangocrats.

4. Cancel your TV licence. Lots of info on the net about the safe way to do this.

5. Install an ad-blocker on your browser to deprive the mainstream media of ad revenue. Install anti-tracking software as well. Or use Brave (better). If you use Windows, try switching to Linux so that all your activity is not reported back to Redmond. If you’re really worried about security, use Tails or Qubes, turn off your wi-fi and connect via ethernet. Android phones in particular are riddled with spyware. Consider ditching your smartphone and get a dumbphone like a Nokia 108. It’s cheaper and healthier, too. (Look into the health impacts of EMR if you don’t believe me.)

5. Using a computer not attached to the internet, print stickers with slogans (e.g. “Sceptical? You’re not alone. http://www.lockdownsceptics.org “, “IT’S A COUP! FIGHT BACK!”, “Do NOT let them vaccinate you!”), or just a single URL pointing people here or to Off-Guardian, UK Column, Corbett Report, etc. Provide a data matrix if you know how so they can go straight there from their phones. Surreptitiously sticker any public infrastructure (lampposts, litter bins, bus shelters, whatever) you can. These messages can also be printed on business cards and the cards left for others to find, on public transport, in libraries, post offices, supermarkets, etc. Again, use your imagination.

6. Prepare a slip of paper to leave in shops explaining that although you understand their need to obey government diktats to avoid legal problems, these policies prevent you from spending your money there.

I’ll try to think of some more, but these should be enough to be going on with.

31157 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Simon Dutton, 3, #452 of 847 🔗

These are very good Simon, thank you. Agree that word of mouth is key.

My current activity is printing a couple of dozen A5 leaflets re masks that someone posted on here recently. These will go on the nice leaflet racks at our local station.

31282 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Simon Dutton, 2, #453 of 847 🔗

Use a VPN.Do not buy from businesses that are requiring masks etc, not allowing cash and so on.. Use a browser other than google..

31484 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Carrie, #454 of 847 🔗

Carrie, Tor is better than a VPN. Brave lets you use it in a private window; Brave is an excellent, fast browser anyway with lots of security and privacy features, and has improved by leaps and bounds in the past couple of years. It accepts many Chrome extensions too. Available for Windows and Mac, and can be installed on 64-bit Linux systems with a modicum of command-line skill.

As for a search engine, I mainly use DuckDuckGo , and Google as little as possible.

31072 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to JohnB, 1, #455 of 847 🔗

There aren’t enough of us that’s the problem.

31153 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #456 of 847 🔗

3% is the estimated numbers of active participants in the American Revolution. They defeated the strongest military machine in the world at that time. 🙂

31519 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #457 of 847 🔗

We don’t know how many of us there are. We need to start to find out.

31192 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to JohnB, 1, #458 of 847 🔗

Is it possible that we could have a tab or section on this website that has print-your-own leaflets, stickers, etc ready for download? Failing that, my other half is a web designer, and we could design and host a website for such purposes.

31280 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 1, #459 of 847 🔗

Maybe see if Simon Dolan’s ‘Keep Britain Free’ could be used in some way?

30990 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 41, #460 of 847 🔗

This week I have felt at my most disobedient so far. Since March I have always been clear with family and close friends that it is all bullshit. Some agree completely, some give a glazed look and nod, but you can see in their eyes that it isn’t sinking in. However this week I am starting to make it clear in work meetings that I believe it to be a huge fuckoff lie. I’m doing it as tactfully as possible, tiptoeing around people so they don’t get to the predictable auto-dismissal argument of concluding that I don’t care that people are dying. Also ordered my masked bulldog t-shirt. Looking forward do wearing that to the supermarket.

It’s very interesting how otherwise very intelligent people have bought into this propaganda. From my experience, generally it seems to be a split of those with intense irrational fear for their lives, sheep that are just thick and whose deepest ever thought processes are about celebrity gossip, and others who likely know the truth deep down but have learnt cowardice in their careers to surpress those thoughts and lay low. Because I work with smart people I am suggesting that they look at published figures and draw their own conclusions, rather than diving straight into a site like this. I like to use the stat about children dying of covid vs lightning strikes, as that may make them curious. I think most people need to break the brainwashing by re-learning for themselves.

In the nature of my business I think that there is a risk that speaking the truth may not go well for my career. But fuck it, it needs to be done. If anything bad happens I’ll get another job and take legal action later, when the truth will hopefully be out. I think it is important to make a stand now, as others have said, it is actually feeling like a resistance movement. I’m hoping it
is all caused by widedpread gross incompetence and ends naturally soon, but deep down I have an nagging sense that fascism, or something equally evil, may be coming.

Even my partner didn’t believe the extent of the lies and thought I was becoming like some 5g conspiracy loon. The thing that thankfully brought him round was watching the new lockdown episode of “The Travel Show” on BBC iPlayer. It was more surreal than “Black Mirror”, and I think that made something click in his head that showed it all up as the lunacy that it is. Please watch if you have time, it is a crap BBC News 24 show that hardly anyone watches, but I think this episode is so absurd that anyone rational sees it as a bad joke. It has so many WTAF moments, and because it is from the “beacon of truth” BBC they can’t dismiss it easily. It just takes a program like this to tip someone’s preconceptions and the whole house of cards tumbles.

So glad that we have this site. Thanks Toby and all the contributors. The human race has severely disappointed, but at least in here there is some hope.

30997 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to TheBluePill, 10, #461 of 847 🔗

This is a good statistic: 99.994% of the world’s population have not died from the virus.

Or maybe you could ask them what percentage of the world’s population they think have died from the virus. I can’t imagine that any are going to go as low as 00.006% . or lower. It’s about 1 in 17,000. If they refuse to guess, point out that must mean they have no idea of the scale of the threat.

31007 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to OKUK, 3, #462 of 847 🔗

I think you need to add context too – so what percentage of the world population die each day/week/year normally, what percentage from unclean water, etc.

31033 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Saved To Death, 5, #463 of 847 🔗

If you take the figures from Worldometer, about 1.5% of this year’s deaths globally have been of or with covid-19. Given that the median age of those dying of or with covid-19 is 80+, at least in rich countries, a lot of those would have died anyway this year or soon.

The impact in rich countries has been a bit more marked – certainly in quite a few (like ours) the excess deaths over a 5 year average is something like 20%. This may drop a bit as the year goes on, given that covid-19 most likely hastened some deaths that would have occurred anyway this year.

The above doesn’t really fit with the impression people have of a plague that causes bodies to pile up unburied.

As someone here pointed out a while ago, taken from a helicopter view the effect has been to reduce life expectancy for those in their 80s by a couple of years, which has probably set us back a few decades as I suppose it has been gradually increasing. It will creep up again with better treatment and improved general health.

The above might sound cruel and heartless, but it doesn’t seem to me a reason for suspending ordinary human life as we know it, indefinitely, and wrecking the economy for a generation, and probably causing many thousands more early deaths through depression, unemployment, cancer, reduced health funding etc.

I suppose pro-lockdown/new normal people would argue that the only reason the impact has been much less dramatic than predicted is that we did lock down, and we must continue to do so. The evidence for that, if there ever was any, seems to be dwindling, a fact that I have not really seen addressed properly by pro-lockdown people.

The danger is that the idea that a second wave is always looming round the corner will get cemented in people’s minds as the truth.

31106 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, 1, #464 of 847 🔗

I’m expecting the excess deaths figure to drop a lot initially. However, the picture will be muddied by deaths related to Lockdown as opposed to Covid-19, which will increase. The ONS helpfully looks at excess deaths from pneumonia and other respiratory diseases (including Covid-19). That is probably the key indicator for the impact of Covid-19 since those close to death will likely die of some other respiratory infection if not Covid-19 within weeks of months. So it will be interesting to see what the excess deaths figure is for that general category at the end of the year.

31004 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #465 of 847 🔗

I admire you.

31010 ▶▶ annie, replying to TheBluePill, 10, #466 of 847 🔗

That’s the spirit.
We have a saying in Wales: dyfal donc y dyrr y garreg, meaning literally ‘persistent knocking breaks the stone’. Don’t give in, keep on knocking on any head you believe to have brains in it. As for the zombies, let them shiver under the bed till they rot.

31131 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to annie, 3, #467 of 847 🔗

No sympathy for the zombies. They are complicit.

30998 Jeremy Enns, 6, #468 of 847 🔗

Active Panic Promoter (APP) – it’s time to start calling people out for spreading panic and refusing to consider actual facts. It’s one thing to be irrationally afraid, but it’s another thing to try and spread panic.

31019 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 17, #469 of 847 🔗

There appears to be a widespread sense of puzzlement about how so many people in the country have fallen for this silly false alarm, hook, line and sinker.

This should not cause puzzlement. The following was written in 1950:

Although a public opinion as we understand it cannot exist in totalitarian states, its place is taken by an official image of the world expressed through the media of mass communications. The individual may not believe this image to be true, and indeed often tries to look beyond it, since he sees it as an effort of the bureaucracy to control him. Nevertheless, he usually is forced to accept it, partly for want of something better and partly because of the power he knows stands behind it. For in the totalitarian state both safety and advancement depend upon conformity, and the mass media provide the model with which the individual has to conform.’

Covid 19 was brilliantly presented as an easily digestible soap opera ‘Save our NHS’

This is a technique well known to official propaganda (albeit with the best of intentions) in this country and certainly used overseas in conjunction with the state broadcaster.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/358906/Report_How_Soap_Operas_Bring_About_Change_3March2009.pdf

And, if we are honest, with a public sector responsible for 34% of GDP, so many large companies, power, utility, aerospace etc effectively parastatal entities, a massive state bureaucracy, a monolithic state health service and state broadcaster, today’s Britain is hardly the shining exemplar of a free market driven liberal humanist democratic state that we have for so long been told that it is; has not been, arguably, since the mid 19th Century!

31021 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #470 of 847 🔗

Link for above quote:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2745795?seq=1

State education, of course, plays a major role in conformism……as we see in problems with getting public sector unionised staff to assist with getting children back to school when the official narrative is still one of ‘grave danger’

Remind me, where are we still, currently, on the covid colour alert chart (still ‘transitioning to level three orange: ‘You’ve been tangoed!’ Oh for heaven’s sake!)

31047 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #471 of 847 🔗
31020 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 18, #472 of 847 🔗

So, yesterday Hancock said that the vulnerable includes those over 50! Since when? Can someone please pull the plug on this madness?

31025 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Moomin, 14, #473 of 847 🔗

It’s crazy putting an age on it anyway. I’ve known fitter and healthier 85 year olds than 25 year olds. It all depends on your basic level of health, nutrients, diet, lifestyle. Hancock is an idiot.

31027 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Moomin, #474 of 847 🔗

Best not go into work today then 🙂

31148 ▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to Moomin, 4, #475 of 847 🔗

He also made reference yesterday (and if anyone noticed) to the minus excess deaths now being recorded in June. Now there’s an admission! And as many here have been forecasting would happen. Unfortunately, Mr Hancock did not make the obvious connection that this is because extremely frail people have died a few weeks earlier than would have otherwise been the case, but he just said that this was a good sign. A bit odd, really.

31533 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Locked down and out, #476 of 847 🔗

Minus excess deaths? Are people coming back to life then?

31240 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Moomin, 2, #477 of 847 🔗

The virus + other co-morbidities has already killed the most vulnerable so now they are attempting to make another group more vulnerable. Gates has already said we can expect 700,000 deaths from the vaccine (hence why he wants indemnity from prosecution), so they will start by vaccinating people with underlying conditions, whose potential deaths can be ‘explained away’ by those conditions. There was a study done on US servicemen not long ago (who would be healthy, of course) that found that the flu vaccine made them *more* likely to contract other coronaviruses..
I think the aim is to create another very ‘vulnerable’ group who will more likely to succumb to the next virus (if not initially the vaccine). That these people are younger than those who have so far died, will be used to ramp up the fear factor – ‘See, it’s not just the very old who die of Covid!’

31026 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 31, #478 of 847 🔗

From what I saw recently of our Business ‘Improvement’ District chairwoman, she had a haunted/worried look on her face. Perhaps, this is because, despite making the town ‘safe’, the anticipated hordes did not materialise this week. I wonder why. Here’s a thought:

You are a business and you have a whopping great stand in the doorway of your shop with a bottle of anti-bac gunk that you instruct your customers to use before they are allowed to step over the threshold. You have also erected a perspex screen as a barrier between you and your customer. The message it sends to me is:

You, the customer, potentially have a highly contagious disease and we require you to disinfect yourself before we will allow your potentially disease-ridden body into our sainted shop. We are providing a barrier between you and us because we are worried we may catch something from you.

Why, in the name of all that is sane, would you want to spend your money in such a shop? I wouldn’t and won’t so why would anyone else? It’s really very simple.

31031 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to kh1485, 12, #479 of 847 🔗

Exactly, why would you want to?
It does amaze me though why doesn’t a large chain of stores do away with the restrictions. The government or council can’t do anything as they’re guidelines. The shops would be very busy & the rest would have to follow suit to not loose trade to their competitors. We would be back to normal! I’m sure there are lockdown sceptics in the boardrooms of big businesses.

31037 ▶▶▶ Athanasius, replying to smileymiley, 9, #480 of 847 🔗

It all comes down to insurance. I’m in the same boat – neither I nor my colleagues want any of this ridiculousness but we’ve been told by the insurers that if we don’t follow the guidelines, while we may not be breaking laws as such we would be liable if there’s any complaint. And bear in mind the complaint wouldn’t necessarily have to be a reasonable one – whereas if we followed the advice to the letter no one could prove they’d caught diddly squat from us, if we hadn’t followed it then we’d have no defence. It’s crazy, but you can’t blame small businesses, churches, etc from getting into line however unwillingly when this is dangled over them.

31054 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Athanasius, 8, #481 of 847 🔗

I take your point but wouldn’t the insurance companies have got in touch if that were the case? I haven’t had any further information from mine. I would think it would be near impossible to prove that a customer had caught the virus at your premises.

The other thing is, these businesses that are basically turning their customers away, can’t be surprised when that custom dries up and they go out of business.

31142 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Athanasius, 2, #482 of 847 🔗

Tesco self insure – they have their own insurance company in Dublin.

31170 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #483 of 847 🔗

Which might explain what people are saying upthread about them rolling back the nonsense. Huzzah !

31226 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Athanasius, #484 of 847 🔗

There is a big BUT with what your insurers are telling you and it involves HSE and I know this from many discussions with various HSE departments and The HSE inspectors over the years.

You and only you are responsible for safe operations on your premises/site etc.

Guidelines are just a matter of opinion, yours against their’s, until you end up in court and a judge makes his ruling on which was the right opinion – yours or theirs.

If you follow guidelines exactly to the letter you could still end up in court as an incident has happened and therefore the assumption is your workplace etc was unsafe and you did not take sufficient precautions to prevent it.

You should have seen and realised that the guidelines were insufficient or inadequate or irrelevant for your operation/site/job and should have changed how you do things.

It is your responsibility to do your own research, do you own risk assessment that is site/job/premises specific and prove that you have thought about the risks involved and taken reasonable steps to prevent anything happening.

If your research shows something is required outwith the “guidelines” then you are free to follow your own research as long as you document everything thoroughly to protect your back if something does happen.

That is why “guidelines” have no force of law nor legal standing.

Also the law also says that you only have to get the risks “as low as reasonably practicable (ALARP)” which does not mean bankrupt your company for a one-in-a-million chance.

This is why attached to the risk assessment should be a hazard frequency and mitigation chart which shows that while the risk might not be reduced to zero it is reduced to “as low as reasonably practicable (ALARP)”.

The only thing the insurance is looking at is minimising the chances and amount they have to pay out, they don’t care about your business, only their profits so their advice is skewed.

31428 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Athanasius, 1, #485 of 847 🔗

They can’t prove they got it from you anyway. Impossible. In the meantime it’d cost them a small fortune in trying.

31038 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to smileymiley, 5, #486 of 847 🔗

Re. your last point, you are probably right. What prevents them from speaking up is a lack of courage.

31171 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to smileymiley, 2, #487 of 847 🔗

Morrison’s supermarket is very relaxed about the rules. It has the perspex screens up for the tills, and one aisle for queuing for the tills, which isn’t actually a bad idea, as it means not getting stuck behind someone who wants to chat.

31050 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 5, #488 of 847 🔗

That doesn’t surprise me. What you’ve written above is pretty much the message that people are getting and they’re not happy with it. Hence why they’re staying away.

31066 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to kh1485, 12, #489 of 847 🔗

It’s not very welcoming is it? Personally I hate being treated like a leper. I haven’t been sick and I don’t know of anyone in my circle that has been sick. We ventured out into town as it was market day hardly any shoppers about you had to walk one way around the stalls and they were taking cash which was a relief. The stores were more or less empty no queues anywhere. If the government thinks shoppers are going to spend spend spend they have a huge shock coming their way!

31099 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Bella Donna, 11, #490 of 847 🔗

I’m not sure what non essential items people are supposed to be buying anyway. What with isolation and home working many of have us have simply not been wearing our casual and smarter clothes or footwear, using beauty products etc. Nothing to get dressed up for so summer wardrobes barely touched.
I would love to go for a browse round the town, wander in and out of shops and maybe pick up a t-shirt or something, have a coffee, but I don’t need anything and I know the whole desolate experience will annoy me, so I’m not going. I don’t suppose I’m alone!

31104 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Suitejb, 9, #491 of 847 🔗

Well there’s nothing to get dressed up for currently. I agree there is no point in going to the shops until all the restrictions are lifted. I don’t really do shopping anyway but just occasionally to be able to wander around browsing and may be buying something is what I want to do.

31531 ▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 1, #492 of 847 🔗

Spot on. The default zombie position us that everybody is infected except themselves.

31030 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 26, #493 of 847 🔗

Last night I spent a few minutes typing out and printing a few words on some pieces of paper, telling shops why I won’t be shopping there – masks, one way systems, distancing, signs, tannoy announcements etc. I will now carry these whenever I go shopping and if I enter a shop where I feel it is all totally overboard, I will merely go up to the cash desk and leave one of these explanatory notes with the checkout assistant. And then of course walk out without buying anything.

I’m not good with confrontation, so this saves me from worrying about that, plus it also saves the checkout assistant from feeling hard done by. After all it isn’t their fault. But at least it may start to get the message out that there are many of us, probably the silent majority, who aren’t happy with these needless restrictions and quite simply wont go along with them. No fuss, no rudeness, no anger . . . just a simple statement of fact.

If however they are just paying lip service to the whole idea and are attempting to run normally, they will get a huge “thank you” at the checkout and a beaming smile and an acknowledgment that they are doing their best.

31032 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to CarrieAH, 12, #494 of 847 🔗

That’s a great idea. I’ve started sending e-mails. I complained to the garden centre whose staff treated me appallingly earlier in the week. I also sent an e-mail to the local bakers yesterday thanking their staff for treating me so courteously.

31035 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to kh1485, 10, #495 of 847 🔗

Excellent! I think the more we speak up calmly and firmly, the better.

31220 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to kh1485, 1, #496 of 847 🔗

Particularly good to send nice emails to the shops behaving normally – am sure shop staff do meet staff from other shops and will be comparing how things are going. The message will get through eventually that if you are sensible and nice to your customers then they will keep visiting – if not, no one will come to your shop!

31041 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #497 of 847 🔗

Good idea for shops and easy to do without having a confrontation which I would hate too.

It’s more difficult though with more personal services. The lady who is a beautician and does my nails etc messaged last night to say she is opening from 4th July. Now she is asking for masks to be worn, what a joy. Now I don’t want to wear a mask but would feel so bad if I don’t go to her for an appointment as she is a one man band who needs to earn money.

It’s a bit of a catch twenty two, do you boycott everything or boycott the major businesses and just put up with the forced mask wearing for the smaller businesses who otherwise won’t survive? Bit of a dilemma.

31045 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to ambwozere, 7, #498 of 847 🔗

It’s difficult I agree, and I can see where you’re coming from on this. How about messaging her and saying that you have problems with masks (you don’t have to say what, there are various government guidelines on this) but you’d be prepared to wear a simple face visor for her safety? Then you could also say she needn’t wear one for yours. That kind of puts the ball back in her side of the court. If she’s adamant you still wear a mask then she doesn’t get your business. But at least you’ve tried to meet her half way.

31058 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #499 of 847 🔗

I could try though I think she’ll just be adamant about the mask wearing and as she is 6 months pregnant she is in a high risk category. I may just have to either be understanding and go with it or not go at all.

31061 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to ambwozere, 3, #500 of 847 🔗

Then I think the decision is hers and you needn’t feel guilty about it – unless of course you really desperately want your nails done (and who wouldn’t want a bit of TLC after all we’ve been through the last few weeks?) in which case you have to give in, or find a different beautician.

31221 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ambwozere, 1, #501 of 847 🔗

I’d tell her she can wear a mask if she wants to, but that you as a customer will not do so! If she is a believer in masks then she should feel sufficiently protected just by wearing one herself, surely?

31048 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #502 of 847 🔗

I like this idea. I’ve been thinking of sending emails to my local Sainsbury’s and bakers to thank them for their courteous service.

31053 ▶▶▶ sunchap, replying to Bart Simpson, 15, #503 of 847 🔗

I have avoided confrontation as Groupthink here in New Zealand is too strong.

Good news for lockdown sceptics today from New Zealand – but not for financially destroyed Kiwis. Our GDP for the quarter ending March 31, 2020 fell 1.6%, five times larger than the Australian fall of 0.3% for the same quarter. Australia had a very light lockdown with most states keeping construction, offices and schools open but had the same death rate per capita from Covid19 as New Zealand.

New Zealand’s harsh lockdown therefore resulted in five times as much economic damage as in Australia, for no reduction in C19 death rate….

31059 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to sunchap, 3, #504 of 847 🔗

Well, I would say that, with a Lefty virtue-signaller in charge, what do you expect? Sadly, our Prime Minister has hardly shone as a beacon of calm sanity, so I feel rather embarrassed by my thought! I do, however, still wonder what will happen over in Kiwi-land when you finally open up to the rest of the world.

31063 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to sunchap, 1, #505 of 847 🔗

Oh dear! Locking down just means delaying the inevitable.

31079 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to sunchap, #506 of 847 🔗

That’s really bad and it looked like your government has used a big sledgehammer to crack a small nut.

31135 ▶▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #507 of 847 🔗

I can think of a few nuts I’d like to crack with a very large sledgehammer.

31095 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to sunchap, 3, #508 of 847 🔗

We in the UK can’t even dream of a -1.6% contraction.

31057 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #509 of 847 🔗

Do it! I think we need to get this message out firmly and sensibly. Oldies like myself cannot do marches and riots any more, but I can do a barrage of notes, emails and voting with my feet. In the end, that’s really what counts – footfall. Even the government must realise that. They must be worried about empty shops.

31060 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #510 of 847 🔗

Agree. The other thing is that no-one seems to be mentioning is that in addition to the reduction in tax-take, many businesses, forced by social-distancing will have severely reduced takings meaning they can probably de-register for VAT. Yet another income-stream destroyed for HMRC!

31081 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #511 of 847 🔗

Will do. Have been boycotting the high street and transport since Monday. I think from what I’ve been reading and what I’ve been told, looks like all these measures have backfired on the retailers and transport.

31270 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #512 of 847 🔗

Good idea. I had a bad day yesterday, almost losing it in morrisons and screwfix because of their ridiculous and alienating antisocial measures, enforced by rude little hitlers. Even more upsetting when a fellow shopper took issue with me because of my ‘attitude’, and extended his verbal abuse in the car park. I am so beyond anger I’m almost afraid to go out now. What an awful, miserable world we are now living in….

31055 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 8, #513 of 847 🔗

I subscribe to an anti BID website and one of the contributors has posted this picture of a street in Warwickshire (I think it may be Rugby …). These people just don’t have an effing clue:

31113 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to kh1485, 2, #514 of 847 🔗

It is Stratford-on-Avon, although such insanity is so widespread it hardly matters

31114 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Strange Days, #515 of 847 🔗

Oops, sorry, stand corrected.

31118 ▶▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to Strange Days, 9, #516 of 847 🔗

“Good news Friday” – I’ve just come out of the large out-of-town Tesco in Stratford, and queuing outside has been discontinued!! Is this old news? Just walked straight in. Hurrah!!

31129 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Dave Tee, 7, #517 of 847 🔗

Seems Tesco have now abandoned limiting the amount of people in stores.

31214 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve, #518 of 847 🔗

As there are likely to be more than 15 people in the store at any one time, and a different combination of people each time you visit, and people will be taking their kids with them, how do schools justify these stupid bubbles????

31162 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Dave Tee, 2, #519 of 847 🔗

You may be right – I went to Tesco the other day and no queuing outside, but I put it down to the shop not being busy (even though it was a Sunday morning which tends to be peak period for supermarkets and there was queuing outside the neighbouring Aldi).

31179 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Poppy, 3, #520 of 847 🔗

Sadly not – this morning a long queue outside a local Tesco so I walked back to look through the window and saw empty aisles… The jobsworth at the door obviously couldn’t count and I am just about to write to the management. Obviously I walked away and shopped at Coop, a good experience with small groups chatting, and I saw only one mask.

31182 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to Poppy, 2, #521 of 847 🔗

They’d pulled away the sheep-fencing outside and it’s definitely the first time I’ve seen no visible staff presence at the door – security staff or sanitising-people. No doubt someone inside – possibly the security guy who sits looking at a monitor – was counting or maybe they have some other way of estimating how many are instore. But for a major player like Tesco to take this new course of action, is surely a Great Leap Forward.

31132 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 1, #522 of 847 🔗

Some beer money for the local youth should see it messed up good and proper !

31152 ▶▶ Ian, replying to kh1485, 4, #523 of 847 🔗

And when I drove through a deserted Stratford upon Avon recently what did I see patrolling the streets, really helping all of the struggling big and small businesses? A traffic warden.

31167 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ian, 3, #524 of 847 🔗

Same here. Patrolling in pairs, looking to trap the poor-sod motorist who flouts the new parking rules …

31064 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 20, #525 of 847 🔗

My local paper has just published the details of the latest person to have died in this area after having a positive test for Covid-19. Sadly it appears that he also had asbestosis and COPD but clearly these killer diseases (a relative of mine died from asbestosis so I know how quickly it can kill) pale into insignificance when compared with coronavirus. His cause of death was given as Covid-19!

31068 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Margaret, 4, #526 of 847 🔗

It absolutely stinks!

31096 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Margaret, 19, #527 of 847 🔗
31100 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lms23, 1, #528 of 847 🔗

Very funny!

31112 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Margaret, 2, #529 of 847 🔗

Died WITH and not FROM Covid

31089 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to kh1485, 3, #531 of 847 🔗

Excellent. Best laugh I’ve had in ages…..well, at least since watching this Britain’s Got Talent clip last night (I never watch the programme itself):

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_cyIxkFLjWI

The actual performance starts at 1:30 in.

31092 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to kh1485, 1, #532 of 847 🔗

Brilliant!

31163 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to kh1485, 1, #533 of 847 🔗

Thanks. That cheered me up 😁

31070 Schrodinger, replying to Schrodinger, 12, #534 of 847 🔗

So on Wednesday morning we left south west Wales travelled across country to the English border then on to Nottingham where we spent the afternoon and evening with our son, his wife and their grandson (at his house). Son no 2 came along as well from Derby. Things seemed fairly normal in the suburbs of West Bridgford. We left the car at a car park within walking distance of his house so as not to ‘draw attention’ but we had dinner together as a family then stayed over at his house.

Drove back to Wales on Thursday afternoon/evening in heavy rain. The M4 in Wales was nearly back to being as busy as normal.

Reports on the BBC this morning that the loony WAG are not going to lift the ‘local 5 mile’ travel rule for another 2 weeks! So I’d suggest that others just do their own thing. Just prepare yourself with an ‘exemption cover story’ such as going to help a vulnerable person.

I still contend that there is nothing to stop anyone from England visiting wales although the ‘state police’ will try and tell you otherwise

The legislation, here, restricting travel etc. is The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (Wales) Regulations 2020

Section 1 (2) says “These Regulations apply in relation to Wales”

Section 8 (1) restricts travel ” During the emergency period, no person may leave the place where they are living without reasonable excuse.”

Thus, I would contend, that anyone visiting Wales from England cannot have their travel restricted as they do not live in Wales for this section to apply. i.e. The Act does not restrict travel per se, it just restricts people leaving the ‘place where they are living’. If they are not living in Wales it does not therefore apply.

For anyone in Wales I suggest that you add your name to this petition which has done well by Welsh standards

https://petitions.senedd.wales/petitions/200026

and for anyone anywhere

https://www.change.org/p/welsh-government-reopen-campsites-and-holiday-parks-in-wales-and-allow-travel-to-them

31119 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Schrodinger, 4, #535 of 847 🔗

That rain here in South Wales was crazy yesterday. Glad you got home safely. I, and most people I know round here, are now just using common sense with what we are doing and paying little attention to the WAG. It’s easy for us on the border as it’s closer for me to go shopping in Bristol than it is to go to Cardiff. I sense the tide of opinion is turning against lockdown. About time too.

31530 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, #536 of 847 🔗

Hear hear.
But businesses have to ensure their clients don’t exceed the five miles, and it is killing many of those businesses. Well done, Stalin Drakeford. Strutting on the ruins of the country you and your toadies have wrecked.
But vengeance is on the way. Oh yes.
They shoot dictators, don’t they? Like in Romania.

31074 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #537 of 847 🔗

Market day in town today and not a single cash point working (12) – coincidence or deliberate?

31080 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sarigan, 2, #538 of 847 🔗

Incompetence?
No one’s been out to fix any of them. No one’s filled any of them up.

31082 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Sarigan, 2, #539 of 847 🔗

Go to your local post office If you want cash.

31085 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sarigan, 1, #540 of 847 🔗

Banks may not be loading the cash points as much as normal or at all.

31076 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #541 of 847 🔗

Had another one of our meetings yesterday and it reached the point where everytime “safety” and “social distancing” was mentioned, I wanted to shoot myself.

Its gotten so bad now that I’m thinking of requesting a meeting with my line manager to voice my concerns. However I do not want to give her any ammunition to accuse me of being “negative” or “not being a team player”

I would please like some help from my fellow sceptics, how do I raise my concerns in a rational way? I would be forever grateful for any help and advice.

31086 ▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #542 of 847 🔗

I’m not sure how helpful this is, but if you’re working in an environment where simply questioning whether policy is correct leaves you accused of being “negative” and not being a “team player” then your management structure needs to take a long, hard look at the work culture.

I would suggest you lay out your concerns factually and using the least emotional language possible, but also stress that you understand why the institution (you work in a museum, correct?) might feel it needs to make the decisions it is making. You will, of course follow the rules that are put in place and will work to make it a success as much as you can, but you feel that you need to raise the problems that you can see, for the good of the museum.

Something like that.

31090 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, #543 of 847 🔗

I might be being unfair here to my line manager but because we’ve not really worked together for long I could be guilty as charged for making assumptions about her. My old line manager saw me through some bad situations and she was very supportive and helpful.

Thanks for your advice above. I was thinking something similar along those lines 🙂

31088 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #544 of 847 🔗

Meetings with line managers are rarely a good idea. They only encourage them. Better to subtly chip away at your coworkers until a majority are on your side and then the line manager will typically cave in.

31115 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #545 of 847 🔗

Yes. I’m easily triggered by the ‘Stay safe’ slogan but it’s them I would rather shoot!

31169 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #546 of 847 🔗

Listen to this video. It’s about 12 minutes long, and covers the case of a man in the U.S. who was fired for “cracking his knuckles” but was accused of making a “white supremacist” hand signal. Not sure who he was supposed to be signalling to, but that’s irrelevant to your situation.
This vlogger is a psychologist, who specializes in workplace environments, i.e. building teams, improving productivity and the workplace. Take a listen, as she makes some very good points about speaking out, and companies that actively discourage this are not good places to work, with reduced productivity and worker dissatisfaction, etc.
I would also say, that while you may feel uncomfortable speaking out and will face opposition, there will be others who are too scared but will be grateful that you do. Which is where the video comes back in, i.e. more people need to speak out instead of being afraid to say anything. Make sure of your facts, and don’t be sidetracked or distracted. Keep notes as the other person speaks so you can address any points raised afterwards. I don’t know the environment you work in, but I’d also suggest recording the conversation, so there’s no “misunderstanding” later.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aC2di5E9KYQ

31258 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lms23, #547 of 847 🔗

That was a very good video, thank you very much. This has given me a lot to think about.

31183 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #548 of 847 🔗

Print up some research etc showing it’s all crap, make lists of websites to visit and people to research and start leaving them dotted around the office surreptitiously. Deny it was you that left them.

Or while on a break read them at your desk then leave them in plain view as nearly everyone noses at what is open on a desk when passing.

In a meeting ask to see the research/facts/findings they are using to introduce these measures as this is a HSE issue and you are entitled to see the company’s reasoning behind any HSE decision and challenge it as it is you who are doing the work, not management.

There is an official safety Rep for the office isn’t there? I think there should be at any workplace, part of the health an dSafety at Work Act 1974 if I remember correctly. Bring up the lack of evidence to support the new HSE measures with them as they have to raise it with management and explain that your own independent research that you carried out to see what measures you needed to follow to keep yourself and others safe are at odds with the company’s findings.

It’s always more fun beating them using their own rules.

31078 Lms23, 3, #549 of 847 🔗

I don’t know how the testing kit works, or what specifically it’s measuring, but testing “positive for Immunoglobulin G” is not a surprise. I’d be more surprised if you didn’t. Everyone has IgG…and IgM, and IgA (plus a trace of a couple of other immunoglobulin). IgG is the most plentiful immunoglobulin in blood, and can be raised in a number of infections.
The kit should be testing for the specific antibody to the virus. A generic “positive IgG” doesn’t mean much.

31107 sam, replying to sam, 10, #550 of 847 🔗

but we don’t want any contact tracing ap at all whoever supplies it
We don’t want it from Apple nor Google!

31111 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to sam, 3, #551 of 847 🔗

Agree. In addition there is no value add, the virus is petering out.

31187 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Victoria, 1, #552 of 847 🔗

I actually believe it’s already gone

31124 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to sam, 1, #553 of 847 🔗

Totally agree but it’s already there in the background in Google. Done by phone updates if I go to my phone’s settings and in the search bar type Covid it brings up a whole spiel about covid emergency notification settings.

31208 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ambwozere, #554 of 847 🔗

Can you post a screen grab to show where? I can’t see it..

31321 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 1, #555 of 847 🔗

If you use an Android phone you may have Covid-19 Exposure notification already on your phone.

To check :

  1. Go to Settings
  2. Scroll down to Google Services and launch
  3. If COVID-19 Exposure Notification is on top of the list, go to the top right corner of your screen & tap on the 3 dots
  4. Tap usage and diagnostics
  5. Turn off
  6. Check it regularly in case the Android system turns it back on automatically


Covid-19 Exposure Notification (How it apparently works)
My phone services…….COVID19 Exposure Notifications

  1. Your phone needs to use Bluetooth to securely collect and share random IDs with other phones nearby.. Random IDs are automatically deleted after 14 days.
  2. Device location needs to be on to detect Bluetooth devices near you. However COVID-19 notifications don’t use device location.
  3. The app can notify you if you have been near someone who has reported a positive COVID-19 test result.
  4. The date, duration and signal strength associated with an exposure will be shared with the app.
  5. If you test positive for COVID-19, you can choose to share your phone’s random IDs with the authorised app so that it can notify others anonymously. [my italics]


Thanks to UK Column on 3rd June. My android phone had it on so I followed the above instructions and it hasn’t come back on yet.

31402 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #556 of 847 🔗

Damn bloody useful Miriam thank you. Downloaded info for future reference. And I did have the sneaky thing on my Android

31109 sam, 3, #557 of 847 🔗

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/climate/the-international-energy-agency-has-joined-the-conspiracy-against-the-world/
he International Energy Agency has joined the conspiracy outlining a $3 trillion plan to restart the global economy while cutting greenhouse gas emissions, saying that governments have a “once-in-a-lifetime opportunity” to create jobs while decarbonizing infrastructure. Their highly questionable economist Fatih Birol has suddenly come out and proclaimed that the world has six months to avert a climate crisis. He has warned of the need to prevent post-lockdown surge in emissions. This is complete nonsense for this elitist consortium has already shut down the world economy to the point that in Britain, they have not produced and electricity by coal in two months . He spouts out statements with NO SUPPORTING scientific evidence and is pretending the world will end in 6 months if we allow people to use energy again.You can Google Faith Birol and he is an economist with no background in climate. For decades his forecasts have been all about the rise and fall of energy – not climate change. It is made up of 30 member countries, 8 association countries, and 2 accession countries all of which must be a member of OECD. You will find that the IEA accepts also private donations and Birol is also now linked to Gates .

31116 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #558 of 847 🔗

Is anyone aware of any medical research into this possible treatment for covid-19

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ComfyLife-Premium-Incontinence-Diaper-Absorbency/dp/B07PQTGQ33

31158 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Major Panic, #559 of 847 🔗

Ha ha, maybe for Hancock

31139 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 30, #560 of 847 🔗

In imposing its lockdown measures, government ministers have constantly asserted that they are following the science. I cannot but wonder where they got the scientific advice on promoting social isolation? One does not have to be a scientist to know that we are social animals, and that isolation is seriously damaging. In fact, social isolation is recognised as a form of torture. Social isolation has been used by authorities from time immemorial as a punishment, and as a way of forcing people to do things they otherwise would not do. Nor does one have to be a scientist to know that social isolation causes lasting, even permanent harm. It can do this to adults, and it can do it even more catastrophically to children. One might almost think that the government are taking their scientific advice from a bunch of psychopaths, who want to cause irreparable psychological harm on the whole population, especially the next generation. The social isolation policies are crimes against humanity.

31160 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Hayes, 10, #561 of 847 🔗

Some clues : They tel lies for their living. There is no sound science behind it. They are not very good people.

31161 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #562 of 847 🔗

Sorry, ‘tell’.

31168 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #563 of 847 🔗

I won’t give SAGE credit for much but they did ask for a cost/benefit analysis of lockdown which wasn’t followed up (it seems)

31172 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #564 of 847 🔗

Another point to SAGE’s credit is they did not advise the lockdown, and Neil Ferguson was still a member at the time. This does raise the question of which scientific advice the government were following when they introduced the lockdown measures, if any.

As for the cost benefit analysis. Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, admitted 10 April 2020 that the government had not made any attempt to assess the number of people who would die as a result of the government’s lockdown measures. He went on to say that he took this extremely seriously and that he and the Chancellor would look into immediately and report their findings. As you will have noticed, he has still to get back to us on how many people are dying as a result of the lockdown measures.

31175 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, #565 of 847 🔗

Matt Hancock’s scandalous admission: https://youtu.be/3ex7uIGUdSE
Starts at 35:59

31206 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #566 of 847 🔗

Matt Hancock is totally focused on the vaccine and the opportunity for further power grabs – note they are not backtracking on having got hold of people’s medical records.. What next? Sell the data to the DVLA so they can find reasons to stop people driving, health insurance based on vaccine records..

31526 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #567 of 847 🔗

Psychopaths is right.
S.d. puts humans back way before the Palaeolithic. In fact, you can’t s.d. and remain human.

31145 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 16, #568 of 847 🔗

I’ve been whiling away this morning looking around the 4 council websites that surround where I live.

They have all put on their websites a “business start-up checklist”.

Looking at them they are all basically identical and all have the same advice, wording, lists and 8-12 links at the bottom to Government and other’s “guidance” pages but nothing originally generated by themselves.

I amended the letter I sent yesterday to mention this to see what sort of response it generates.

Personally, I doubt any of the Councils have done any original research to generate a risk assessment and the checklist but are just downloading it from a central template and tweaking a few words to make it look like they have done something original and they will not be able to supply any sort of list of research they have independently looked at to justify any measures they have in the checklist but we’ll see, they may surprise me and give a coherent answer.

Sirs,

I have been reading the business start-up checklist for businesses in the xxxxxxx County Council Council area on your website and have found misleading information on it that needs corrected.

Your “checklist” is almost identical to every other Council’s “checklist” so I am of the opinion that you are all using the same template to generate this business advice.

I have a few questions that require answering by xxxxxx County Council.

1 – “Guidance” and “advice” are not legally enforceable and does not have to be followed. The Government has reiterated this in the past week in their legal reply to the Judicial Review request by Simon Dolan and his legal representatives Wedlake Bell as part of their defence on school (non)closures.

In the list of further information websites listed at the bottom of the “checklist” I downloaded the majority of the websites have the word “guidance” in the title and others link to central Government websites for questions and misleading ”guidance” on social distancing and other restrictions suggesting they are mandatory and 1 is a list of frequently asked questions.

With this in mind please state what piece of legislation or legal basis your are using to force retailers and other businesses to either implement the “guidance” or to stay closed if they cannot meet the listed “guidance” as per the checklist?

2 – Was a risk assessment performed by xxxxxx County Council to generate the guidelines you issued? Please supply the risk assessment.

3 – What “science”, Government backed or independent, was researched to generate the risk assessment on which the checklist is based if the answer was “yes” to point 2? Please supply the research and the evidence.

3 – The Government and the National College of Policing have both stated on numerous occasions that social distancing is not law, nor is it legally enforceable in England. Social distancing also has no basis in science, cannot be backed up by science and was plucked out of thin air using no evidence whatsoever as stated by Professor Dingwall.

With this in mind, please state what piece of legislation or legal basis your are using to force retailers and other businesses to abide by social distancing “guidelines” as if it has force of law?

5 – The Government and the National College of Policing have both stated on numerous occasions that social distancing is not law, nor is it legally enforceable in England. Social distancing also has no basis in science, cannot be backed up by science and was plucked out of thin air using no evidence whatsoever as stated by Professor Dingwall.

With this in mind, please state what piece of legislation or legal basis your are using to install street signs, pavement markings and so on that misrepresent social distancing to be law? Were the words “if possible”, “guidance only” or similar included in the signage?

6 – How much is this costing and where is the money coming from, Council finances or central Government?

7 – The social distancing guidelines are under review and look increasingly likely to be changed very soon.

With this in mind will you be changing all the signage, pavement markings, guidance to shops and businesses etc immediately any changes are made? If not, why not.

8 – If you have given written guidance restricting operations at a business or premises or stating they must remain closed, and as you seem to be giving the impression to business owners and operators that your written guidance has force of law then under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 the local authority is liable to pay the businesses compensation for any losses incurred from the time restrictions were put in place until they are lifted.

Is the Council aware of this? Has the Council followed the legislation on issuing of written notices to the affected businesses?

Here are the relevant sections:


58 Form of notices and other documents (1)
All notices, orders and other documents authorised or required by or under this Act to be given, made or issued by a local authority, and all notices and applications authorised or required by or under this Act to be given or made to or to any officer of a local authority, shall be in writing.
(2)
The Secretary of State may by regulations made by statutory instrument prescribe the form of any notice, certificate or other document to be used for the purposes of this Act, and, if forms are so prescribed, those forms or forms to the like effect may be used in all cases to which those forms are applicable.

Stopping of work to prevent spread of disease(1)
With a view to preventing the spread of—
(a)
a notifiable disease, or
(b)
a disease to which subsection (1) of section 23 of the [1955 c. 16 (4 & 5 Eliz. 2).] Food and Drugs Act 1955 applies,

the proper officer of the local authority for any district may by notice in writing request any person to discontinue Ms work.

(2)
The local authority shall compensate a person who has suffered any loss in complying with a request under this section, and section 57(2), (3) and (4) below shall apply to any dispute arising under this subsection.





57General provision for compensation(1)
A local authority shall make full compensation to any person who has sustained damage by reason of the exercise by the authority, in relation to a matter as to which that person has not himself been in default, of any of their powers under a relevant provision of this Act;



All this information should be readily available and immediately to hand at both Councils and in numerous departments including the Chief Executive’s office, the Trading Standards department and the Environmental Health Department as it has apparently been given in writing to businesses in your area and are posted on both Council’s websites.

I look forward to your reply within a reasonable timeframe.

Yours sincerely

31156 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, #569 of 847 🔗

Now to get a copy of your letter to some of these business owners or a business owner website

31191 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Victoria, 4, #570 of 847 🔗

A while back I sent something similar to various trade bodies, the federation of small business, magazines and clubs I subscribe to when they started sending out the “stay safe covid-19” advice e-mails and so on but not one ever answered.

Now whenever something comes up for renewal I look at what I get out of subscribing or being a member against their pathetic supine lack of standing up for their members etc and generally end up not renewing my membership. Not one of them has asked why I did not renew.

No-one seems interested out their in non-sceptic sheeple land.

31149 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 28, #571 of 847 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53106673

So the government has finally downgraded the alert level on the Nando’s scale from 4 to 3.

‘Under level three, the virus is considered to be “in general circulation” and there could be a “gradual relaxation of restrictions”. Previously transmission was considered to be “high or rising exponentially”. Health Secretary Matt Hancock said the change was “a big moment for the country” and showed that the government’s plan was working .’

Goodness, I have steam coming out of my EARS at that statement, given what us sceptics and dissenting scientists know about infections peaking before the lockdown was even implemented. The government plan has done sweet f**k all to save lives from Covid (and has in fact cost lives to Covid due to the ruinous care home policy) but it has jolly well driven a coach and horses through the entire way of life for almost everyone. I KNEW the government would take credit for the virus just naturally dying out. Not to mention that the downgrading seems far too late given that level 4 is ‘high and rising exponentially’ but infections and deaths have been decreasing for two months now?! One doesn’t need to be a scientist to interpret that very simple data on Worldometers and the like.

31151 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Poppy, 11, #572 of 847 🔗

And if there have been upticks in cases, this doesn’t necessarily indicate an increase in transmission – more likely an increase in testing capacity. It’s interesting to see overall infections on Worldometers still constantly increasing but deaths decreasing as countries scale up their testing capacity and identify those cases that went under the radar at the start of the outbreak, thereby showing the disease to have a lower CFR/IFR than previously thought.

31194 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Poppy, #573 of 847 🔗

Millions of extra infections that we dont know about which is a good thing as it lowers fatility rate love to know the true amount of world infections

Any idea anybody?

31203 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, #574 of 847 🔗

Same thing happening in Sweden re infections – those with mild symptoms getting tested whereas they would not have before, and more tests being done generally. The cynic in me thinks (especially after hearing the London Calling podcast) is that they are moving down the Nando’s scale as slowly as possible, until they can somehow justify the second wave and another lockdown…

31254 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Poppy, 1, #575 of 847 🔗

Particularly comical that the BBC adds some supposed expert “analysis” to the story, to make sure nobody makes up his own mind based on the facts without being guided by establishment spin as to the Goodthink interpretation, but makes no mention of the glaring dishonesty of claiming transmission of the virus was “ high or rising exponentially” in May, let alone June. Nor of the absurdity of claiming it is now “in general circulation” when it is vanishingly rare in large parts of the country.

31165 Andy, replying to Andy, 10, #576 of 847 🔗

Just some insight on travelling by plane at the moment.

On Tuesday I flew BA from LHR T5 to Lisbon. I believe that BA had 8 flights that day from LHR. As you would expect T5 was an empty warehouse and eerie after being dropped off on a deserted drop off zone.

You then need to pop your muzzle on and the man on the door invites to wash your hands.

I only had hand baggage so straight to security. Given most of the security areas were closed there was a queue, We all stood patiently on our ‘feet signs’. It took a while as only two people could be putting things on the scanning conveyer belt at once. And the endless faffing of people who are surprised that they can’t take a 2L bottle of water through and need to take a laptop out of the case hasn’t changed….

Only WHSmith and Boots open. Everything else shuttered. People sat around the terminal, there were no taped off seats which I think was excellent and let everyone work it our for themselves like adults. No issues with that. Sensible. I also assume they know the 2M rule is going to change.

At the gate there was quite a number of people. I later learnt that was 126 on the plane. So they board the back of the plane first and that seemed to work okay. Distance kept as you get to the plane. Then of course you get on the plane and the whole farce is there for all to see. Middle sets being used etc. I have no problem personally but why bother in the terminal?

A South African guy claiming to be a lawyer refused to wear his muzzle. The attendant chatted to him and that seemed it. Didn’t get ejected.

Sadly there was endless BA announcements about how the plane was deep cleaned and our welfare was top priority. Wear muzzle etc. It was a blessed relief when he stopped. I took 90 minutes to finish my sandwich which helped not to wear the muzzle. I wasn’t as brave as the SA guy.

As we approached Lisbon we were informed we would have to fill in a health questionnaire on arrival in the terminal or face penalty.

Landed on time. Everyone told to sit and await until row number called. Front first. To be honest this works really well and stopped the ridiculous crush. Maybe a future benefit of this madness.

So off the plane straight to electronic passport control, straight through. I was looking for said form but it just didn’t exist. As I approached Customs there was a heat camera. I walked through and that was it.

To the Avis counter and in the car in 10 minutes.

Coming back to LHR may not be so easy, I dread that.

I am an hour north of Lisbon. People are wearing masks in shops but relaxed in terms of distance. In a queue at the till the till operator asked me to close up a bit! I have been brain washed.

Haven’t seen many masks elsewhere.

Muzzle aside the flight was a breeze really. I can’t see how it works as flights ramp up over the next few weeks.

31201 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Andy, 1, #577 of 847 🔗

Don’t like the sound of the thermal-imaging camera..

31205 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Andy, 1, #578 of 847 🔗

Thanks for sharing. I know someone who is off to Africa in a couple of weeks for work. He has to take about four different flights so it’s good to know that everything is functioning reasonably well. I’ll tell him to eat all his meals really slowly.

31173 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 16, #579 of 847 🔗

For anyone living in East Lothian here’s a business to avoid – unless you think a bakery owner can dictate to you to wear a muzzle. “In Scotland, face coverings have been made mandatory on public transport, and its under review as to whether they will be made mandatory in shops too. We really hope this is the case. We have been asking all of you to wear masks when coming into our shops, and unfortunately, it’s only a minority who are. Our staff have been laughed at, sneered at, and mocked for wearing masks, even though it’s for customer safety as much as their own. Working next to hot, burning, ovens for ten hours, in the hottest spring in a long time, whilst wearing a mask, is no easy task. Our team are committed to wearing them, and are doing their very best. Are they perfect, no. Will they slip up sometimes, yes. We are all adapting and learning, but they are trying their damn hardest. So please, make the effort. Come into our shop, we value your custom so greatly, but please wear a mask or face covering. If our five year old can manage it, so can you. To those of you who have been wearing them already, we feel your support, and we are so deeply thankful. And you look great!” Bostock Bakery, East Linton and North Berwick.

31176 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Hammer Onats, 12, #580 of 847 🔗

Just showed this to a friend. His response: “Two words” You can imagine which two. And don’t you just love the guilt-trip attempt – “If our five year old can manage it…”

31178 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Hammer Onats, 6, #581 of 847 🔗

Yes AVOID. It is ridiculous.

People that believe that wearing a mask will protect them or a vulnerable person from getting Covid must wear the mask. Therefore no need for other mostly healthy people to wear a mask as the mask wearers will be ‘protected’.

31184 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Hammer Onats, 11, #582 of 847 🔗

And this is a message from my hairdresser:

IN THE INTREST OF SAFETY WE REQUEST THAT ALL CLIENTS ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING GUIDELINES

BOOKING

· All appointments must be booked by telephone. Not in person, by email or by social media.

· We will not be accepting walk-ins, you must pre-book.

· Please Do not come to the salon if you or anyone you live with is unwell or self-isolating.

ON ARRIVAL TO YOUR APPOINTMENT

· Please ensure you arrive at the agreed time.

· Please wait outside until a member of our team invites you into the salon. This is for your safety.

· On Entry, please use hand sanitizer provided. You will find this on the RH side of the doorway inside the salon.

· Please minimise what you bring as you will be asked to keep all belongings with you.

· You must attend your appointments alone. This is to maintain social distancing in the salon.

· For your safety, we will provide you with the recommended PPE. Client PPE must worn throughout your appointment.

· Unfortunately, we will not be providing refreshments. You may bring a drink bottle with a sealed top.

· Please remain in your designated seat during your appointment.

POINT OF SALE

All payments must be by Card, we are not able to accept cash at this time.

Please do not touch any of our retail products, if you would like to purchase, please ask at reception. Our receptionist/front of house will be only too pleased to help you.

Finally, it would really help if you are able to book your next appointment prior to leaving the salon.

“We apologise if your visit is not the same fabulous experience that you are used to. We hope to get back to normal as soon as it is safe to do so and we are permitted”

Not sure why you can’t book by e-mail … Needless to say, I won’t be visiting any time soon …

31185 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to kh1485, 1, #583 of 847 🔗

I will be going to my beautician even though I will have to wear a mask. But she’s a one person operation, is 6 months pregnant and needs to income. And I’ve known her for over 10 years. So I want to support her even though the whole charade is pointless.

She is willing to accept cash though which is good.

31188 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to ambwozere, 3, #584 of 847 🔗

I take your point. Mine is that even if they do subscribe to this nonsense, there is a way of saying all this stuff: there is no need to be so bossy and unpleasant. It could be done with a little humour but it isn’t.

31236 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to ambwozere, 1, #585 of 847 🔗

Why can’t you tell her you want to support her but don’t want to wear a mask? Give and take on both sides.

31200 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 8, #586 of 847 🔗

The tone of that message to a prospective customer is disgraceful,can you catch the virus from email now then ?,sealed top drink ?,don’t touch the stuff,I think that place can go and f*** themselves !,as you say no humour,no niceness,they don’t deserve customers anymore.
Pretty much every part of life has had the last drop of normality and pleasantness squeezed out of it,the last 5% of hope I had left that we might one day escape this dystopian lunacy has been taken from me today.

31216 ▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Paul, 3, #587 of 847 🔗

And they invite you in before inviting you to part with their money before their landlord invites them to pay their rent.

31247 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 2, #588 of 847 🔗

I know. And they have the bloody cheek to tell you how to book your subequent appointment. I really didn’t expect this from them as they are always such a laugh normally. Well, they certainly aren’t employing any humour now.

31233 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, 3, #589 of 847 🔗

Change your hairdresser. Do any of these people do any research on this ‘killer’ virus?

31256 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to kh1485, 5, #590 of 847 🔗

i had a text from my barber yesterday to say he was taking bookings . i phoned for a chat and he said that he has gloves, he has masks, and a screen – as he has been told he must do. But he is a sceptic so none of this will be used with me.. Just be like old times

31263 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to mjr, #591 of 847 🔗

Jealous …!

31265 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, #592 of 847 🔗

What a strange hairdresser. I actually prefer booking by email as everything is in black and white and there’s no excuse to muck up spelling your name for instance.

Most odd.

31524 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 1, #593 of 847 🔗

It isn’t in the interests of safety. It’s to protect their arses.

Anybody else remember the spaceship in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy that was delayed for centuries, with the passengers put into suspended animation ‘for their comfort and convenience’?

31210 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #594 of 847 🔗

“We’re going to great lengths to make ourselves uncomfortable. We want you to do the same. That’ll be £6.25, please”

31224 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Hammer Onats, 7, #595 of 847 🔗

No-one in a mask looks great. How can you look great when half your face is covered? More Orwellian double-think. Let’s start a boycott list. Name and shame

31231 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #596 of 847 🔗

They have a Facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/BostockBakery/
Tell them what you think of their mask policy. But nicely. No BLM intimidation and ‘cancelling’. Just that it’s unnecessary and you’d never go in there because of that.

31267 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, 3, #597 of 847 🔗

Just had a look at their facebook page with the relevant posts and comments. Jesus wept, how delusional are these people.

31288 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #598 of 847 🔗

I’ve just done that too Bart. Think my idea’s dead in the water. I’d probably get lynched if I made a comment on their page. These people really do think they are trying to protect each other. Are they going to do this for the rest of their lives?

31313 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella, 3, #599 of 847 🔗

Are they going to do this for the rest of their lives? ‘Looks like it unless there’s widespread cult de-programming. Meanwhile, the Govt with its trusty MSM and social media keeps piling on the fear. Like many others I would say stay off Facebook etc, however tempting it is to put some home truths on that awful baker’s or hairdressers’ pages.

I await with some dread the message from my hairdresser. I am sure it will be Muzzle City One good thing about being an old bag is I’m much less bothered about my appearance these days and I’ll go back if/when sanity prevails

Apparently we’re now at ‘Defcon 3’ (I mean 3, for God’s sake!!!) of the Lock-up exit traffic light plan. They are taking the piss so openly now that they are not even following their own rules – shops were not meant to open until now, even in the ghastly form that prevails.

Every time I read/hear someone banging on about the virus spreading now, I just want to shout at the top of my voice, ‘What bloody virus?’ I mean, what danger is anyone in now, honestly?

31366 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, 1, #600 of 847 🔗

I was going to comment as well but thought the better of it. I’ve simply made a mental note to avoid the bakery should I be passing that way.

I’ve been trying to spread the gospel of why masks are bad for you in any way I can but unfortunately for the zombies who commented on that page, they are beyond help.

31410 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #601 of 847 🔗

Staff have been laughed at, sneered at and mocked fir wearing masks?
Good.

31177 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #602 of 847 🔗

Just had a team of carpet fitters in the house.

All had masks on but under their noses.

Let them know I was a sceptic and they didn’t need a mask round me. They said they were all sceptics too but the company insisted they wear them as some customers (or arseholes as the fitters called them and I agreed) had called the company after they left and complained they did not wear masks during the visit.

Asked them if the company had done a risk assessment on full-time mask wearing? Did they agree with the said risk assessment? Did the company explain to them the dangers of full-time mask wearing? Were they told what the symptoms of a drop in oxygen saturation were? Were they aware that mask wearers have higher rates of infection than non-mask wearers and so on?

They said they had not been told anything by anyone, just “wear the mask so you don’t get grassed up”.

Gave them the Rancourt study on mask wearing website address and a few pointers to put them in the right direction – to keep them safe of course, I’m not a trouble maker or rabble rouser.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w5eojbzj13zbnyd/COVID-19_Rancourt-Masks-dont-work-review-science-re-COVID19-policy.pdf?dl=0

31430 ▶▶ John P, replying to Awkward Git, #603 of 847 🔗

The problem for them is that – for all they know – you could just be trying to catch them out by getting them to take their masks off.

It’s not their fault, but this is what we’re up against with this!

31181 Keen Cook, 12, #604 of 847 🔗

I have just written another email to my MP about the school food provision disaster. As you see from my ID (!) I’m quite keen on food but have been campaigning for years to ensure that children who live in more deprived circumstances have access to better food – and school dinners (whatever our own personal experiences!) is one way of providing a meal every day in the school year. Not going to school for 6 months never mind the educational disaster we’ve visited on most of our young, includes removing the food provision. It is unforgiveable in a mature western society. I said in my email I would be happy to rise up and protest I’m so angry. This is a catastrophe on every level.

31186 Mark, replying to Mark, 11, #605 of 847 🔗

A test case for tolerance of dissent and for conservatives in the US sphere. Can perhaps the highest profile celebrity dissident be protected from harassment and blacklisting modern McCarthyism for expressing dissident political opinions?

‘I will continue to say what I believe to be true’: Laurence Fox insists he will ‘not stand by’ and be silenced by the BLM protests despite fears he may never work again after backlash over comments on race and ‘woke’ culture

Laurence Fox is obviously not facing the kind of real hardship that ordinary folk whose careers are destroyed for expressing political dissent can face, but because he is so high profile he becomes a symbol of resistance and a trial of strength. That’s why it is important whether and at what level he can find future work.

31198 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 5, #606 of 847 🔗

I wish him well. Perhaps not real financial hardship, but taking away a man’s career is taking away a lot.

I find it odd that here are hardly any prominent figures on what one might loosely term “the right” in the UK who speak out in this manner, compared to the US. I know there are more people in the US, but as a proportion, “right wing” celebrities, business leaders, politicians and journalists and commentators seem more numerous and less afraid of upsetting people.

The US is more polarised than we are. I guess the war started there earlier, or they noticed it earlier. They even have a President who is quite happy to upset people, though sadly he doesn’t do it very effectively, in my view.

I wonder if we’ll get more like the US, or capitulate.

31213 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 4, #607 of 847 🔗

The US has the advantage of large areas not fully infected with progressive indoctrination, whereas there is nothing really in the UK with sufficient mass to resist. We are politically more like a US NE Democrat sinecure state and our mainstream politics is more like internal Democrat debates over there, with our Labour and “Conservative” parties representing hard left and soft left. We have nothing like Fox News to represent at least a partially dissenting view to the socially liberal media consensus.

As a result it’s much more dangerous to your career and livelihood to speak out here, and fewer people are wiling to do so.

We capitulated a long time ago. The only question is how far we will go. Brexit put the brakes on one short route to national dissolution, but we only managed that (assuming we can hold onto it) by a fingernail. Our children are educated largely by people actively indoctrinating them in progressive dogma. The result you can see on the streets and on social media, on both the coroapanic and the BLM mobs – learned stupidity.

31345 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, #608 of 847 🔗

The US has the advantage of large areas not fully infected with progressive indoctrination”

Ah yes, the flyover states. I’m reminded of an answer from Philip Larkin’s incomparable, hilarious interview with Paris Review.

Q: You haven’t been to America, have you?
A: ….A writer once said to me, If you ever go to America, go either to the East Coast or the West Coast: The rest is a desert full of bigots. That’s what I think I’d like: where if you help a girl trim the Christmas Tree you’re regarded as engaged, and her brothers start oiling their shotguns if you don’t call on the minister. A version of pastoral.

That was 1982. I imagine the divide has only deepened.

31218 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Mark, 4, #609 of 847 🔗

His article in The Spectator was pretty good. Well written too. (I can’t believe I’m admitting to reading The Spectator. Wow, how the political ground has shifted in the last twelve weeks.)

31235 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella, 3, #610 of 847 🔗

I suppose to be any kind of conservative in the showbiz world you probably have to be either insensitive to the point of stupidity or intelligent, thoughtful and committed. Seems Laurence at least is the latter kind.

(I can’t believe I’m admitting to reading The Spectator. Wow, how the political ground has shifted in the last twelve weeks.)

What would 2019Bella think of 2020Bella, if they fell into a political discussion?

31286 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Mark, 7, #611 of 847 🔗

I think they would reasonably disagree on 50% of issues now. But BLM and ‘cancelling’ wasn’t an issue for 2019 Bella who supported the left mostly on public service issues with a view to helping the less well off. But 2019 Bella wouldn’t have read a periodical chaired by Andrew Neil nor joined a website pioneered by Toby Young. I am more nourished for it I have to say. In point of fact neither Bellas approved of the authoritarian tendencies of the left. I want ‘fair’ and common decency and love thy neighbour. ‘My country is the world and my religion is to do good,’ said my historical hero. I thought the left was the best way to achieve good, not so today. I don’t think Bella’s changed that much, more the political sands have shifted – and painfully so with Covid-19. I won’t tolerate totalitarianism from whence it comes, left or right. PS Hailing from the world of the arts your comment about showbiz is bang on.

31426 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bella, #612 of 847 🔗

Yes, I too have noticed a definite shift to the right in my thinking. I could maybe one day even identify as a conservative. (With a Hitchens small “c”.)

31423 ▶▶ John P, replying to Mark, #613 of 847 🔗

“Laurence Fox is obviously not facing the kind of real hardship that ordinary folk whose careers are destroyed for expressing political dissent can face”

Obviously?

31190 Major Panic, 4, #614 of 847 🔗

another T-shirt logo idea ”#say no to Bill Gates”

31193 Paul, replying to Paul, 29, #615 of 847 🔗

.I went into our town centre for the first time in a month this morning,I had no choice I had to collect some medication ,my god I wish I hadn’t gone !.
Usual dismal experience in the pharmacy,which I expected,my wife went into Boyes store next door and I said I would meet her in there,my mistake I forgot we are living in a different dimension now.The door were open so I walked in,’no sorry,you will have to wait outside,we have enough customers in already’ I was instructed,I have to admit I lost my temper a bit,I said to the woman ‘you do know this is bloody madness,there’s only eight people in there and it is quite a big shop ?’,’just following instructions’ was the reply,I told her I realised that but surely she must think it is barmy ?,she sort of agreed.I said I wasn’t going to stand outside in the rain for the pleasure of going in to spend my money,I pointed my wife out and asked she could bring her to the door so I could give her money because she had forgotten her purse and the woman said it’s okay you can go in and give it to her,so I can’t go in to buy something but I can walk through the shop to give my wife some money !.I will never set foot in that store again.
The number of bloody idiots in my town wearing muzzles has increased a lot since my last visit,I would say the youngest was about 10 and the oldest 80,the smugness of some of them makes me want to punch them,oh, and the swervers and avoiders,more of them than ever,I must be glowing with radiation or have ‘infected’ tattooed on my forehead !,one bloke was coming out of the Halifax,wiping sanitiser on his hands,he saw me passing, looked horrified and stepped back in !.
That’s finally done it for me,all the shops and people in the town centre can go to hell,I can’t take any more of being treated like shit,if all the shops go under it is their fault,I don’t think they will though as there are plenty or morons prepared to do anything they are told,these utter f***ing brainless drones can’t see that they are being conditioned for something.When they are told to report to be made into Soylent Green for the elites to eat I’m quite sure they will do it .
Walking back to my car I passed two teenage lads from the local school sixth form smuggly wearing their black muzzles and I was so wound up I told them what a pair of idiots they are.

31195 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Paul, 9, #616 of 847 🔗

Agree wholeheartedly with everything you say.

31199 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Paul, 1, #617 of 847 🔗

That sounds awful. Why would anyone return to the high street if it’s like that. I don’t know where you live but my experience has been totally different, thankfully. Perhaps it’s a Welsh v English thing?

31212 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to The Spingler, 5, #618 of 847 🔗

I’m in the East Midlands,the really strange thing is that for the past two months most of the open shops in my town were operating fairly normally but now they have gone mad.

31222 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 2, #619 of 847 🔗

Pity you’re not local to me Paul, I’m operating as normal …

31381 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 2, #620 of 847 🔗

I’m so desperate for normal again !

31239 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Paul, 3, #621 of 847 🔗

There’s been a ramping up where we are, too. (North Scotland). Th GP will not let you come if you “need” to be seen, but they make you stand in a midge-infested tent and check your temperature before they’ll see you…. as if covid is the only thing to cause a fever! It’s madness.

31219 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Paul, 13, #622 of 847 🔗

We bought a kitten the week before Lockdown, and – same as we did with our other cat – we wanted to get on the Vax4Life plan at Vets4Pets, so straight to Vets4Pets we went – got the vaccine started, which needs a booster 3-4 weeks later. When 3-4 weeks came around, they wouldn’t do it. Nor would they give the yearly booster to our other cat who was due in the middle of lockdown. They said – as if it’s no big deal or inconvenience – “oh we’ll have to restart the vaccine when restrictions are lifted.” I was furious, because we live in the Highlands and the nearest Vets4Pets is in Perth. This was not a big deal pre-lockdown, when we were on the road to England a lot (the cats always go with us), but that’s a bloody long drive – 4 1/2 hours each way – to restart a vaccine).

Finally, they let us come to restart the vaccines, but I didn’t realise that I wouldn’t be allowed to come in with my cats. We had to go to a side door – standing in the blazing sun – and when I went to pass them my kitten, they freaked out, and said, “no you have to put the kitten down and pass me the lead!” (Yes, our cats do leads and go for walks, but the kitten is still learning). I must have looked at her as if she had two heads, because she then barked at me, “IT’S FOR CORONAVIRUS!” They then proceeded to drag my kitten by the lead, until I had to tell them, “no, she doesn’t know how yet, just pick her up.”

This actually happened about three weeks ago, and I’m still fuming. We have to go back soon for the booster, and I can’t handle it. Not only the sheer idiocy of believing that placing my kitten (who slept on my face all night) on the ground to hand them the lead made some sort of magical difference, but they also lacked the common sense and compassion to not drag my kitten behind them. I was then made to sit outside, without shelter, in the sun, and I’m one of those people who gets ill in the sun rapidly after too many cases of sunstroke. All this queuing outside is impossible for me. What do they actually think they are achieving??

OH…. silly me! That’s right.

They don’t think.

31289 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to TyLean, 5, #623 of 847 🔗

What is it with this thing that makes people so utterly horrid. Shame on them …

31332 ▶▶ steve, replying to Paul, 1, #624 of 847 🔗

“Soylent green”
Wonder how many people saw that film?

31408 ▶▶ annie, replying to Paul, 1, #625 of 847 🔗

Stay out of these plague spots. Take a country walk instead. Meet some intelligent animals for a change. Sheep, for example.

31414 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to annie, #626 of 847 🔗

Oh the sheep are no fun. They just run away when you approach them. (With that said, I’m sure one stood it’s ground and bared it’s teeth at me a few weeks ago.)

The cows and horses are much more fun. Especially the horses. They could win prizes for cheek. A month ago I was followed and muzzled on the neck by one in a field and about a week ago I was followed by another which banged the gate angrily when I didn’t give it any fuss.

Actually, it’s the cattle that can cause the most trauma, in my esperience, though the adult females (cows) generally ignore you. The younger ones sometimes follow en masse, which can be very disturbing if you’re not used to it …

31523 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 1, #627 of 847 🔗

Horses are chancy creatures. Mine can be angelic one day and a right s-o-d the next. But it’s part of their charm.
Sheep will run away if they suspect a threat, but unlike zombies, they calm down as soon as they realise the threat isn’t real.

31614 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, #628 of 847 🔗

Our shop is dog friendly and lots of our kanine customers have returned which has cheered me up no end. One of my top five (yes I do have a top five of fave doggy customers, sad I know!) came in on Wednesday and gave me such a a welcome I was nearly in tears. So, thanks Digby, you really made my day! (not to ignore, of course, Mambo, Reggie, Fennel and Dulcie!).

31674 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to kh1485, #629 of 847 🔗

I spend my life amongst animals, which is really what keeps me sane in times like these! My horses are a rock of stability, my sheep just get on with life (maybe we should, too) and the goats are hysterical. I wouldn’t mess with the geese though unless they know you 😉

31197 Mark, replying to Mark, 13, #630 of 847 🔗

Coronavirus was already in Italy by December, waste water study finds
Just more confirmatory evidence of what we all know to have been the case. Good job this supposedly highly infectious and mass murderous disease just hung around for a while doing nothing until the panickers could save us all with their lockdown idiocy.

31215 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 3, #631 of 847 🔗

Amazed the BBC reported it, that one slipped through. Maybe they don’t think it is significant. Obviously no mention of possible implications for the accuracy of certain famous models and predictions.

31262 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #632 of 847 🔗

Yes, that’s the kind of “analysis” they won’t be adding to their pieces any time soon, I think….

31253 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Mark, 1, #633 of 847 🔗

If it is traceable in waste water does that carry any implication for how widespread the disease was? Does this mean there weren’t just one or two infections but loads?

If anyone on here is able to shed any light on this I’d be grateful.

31255 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to TJN, 1, #634 of 847 🔗

That’s a good question that I recall asking some friends about when a study came out about finding it in sewage somewhere (Finland?), back in, I think, March. I never did get any response on the point. Depends on the sensitivity of the test and the degree of mixing in the sewage/waste water I suppose.

31300 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mark, 1, #635 of 847 🔗

My guess is that it means there were very many cases around then, and thus that the standard progress of such a disease through the population was significantly advanced. If so, this has implications for those of us who suspect we may have had this lurgi back in late December.

31314 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to TJN, 1, #636 of 847 🔗

Yes, I agree that it seems likely it would not be detectable in water/sewage unless it was already pretty widespread.

Just dug out the original story I was thinking about, it was in Holland not Finland:

Coronavirus in sewage foreshadowed outbreak in Dutch city


Scientists say they found the virus, that causes COVID-19, in a Dutch city’s waste water before the first confirmed case in the city. They hope that sewage surveillance may be an early indicator of COVID-19’s presence.

That DW piece was dated 31st March and referred to samples taken on March 5th.

31202 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 20, #637 of 847 🔗

Some positive news. My son just went for a job interview and shook hands with the interviewer. Straight in, no hesitation and said none of that stupid elbow crap!

Pubs around us are campaigning and more and more are supporting the Oakmans Inns stance of opening 4th July come what may even if not ‘allowed’:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/oakman-inns-pub-reopen-no-government-decision-a4473446.html

31211 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sarigan, 4, #638 of 847 🔗

The local shopping centre is quite deserted but very few of those there are wearing masks. My daughter in law tells me they get sweaty and uncomfortable within 15 mins so perhaps people’s experience with them is now discouraging them from bothering.

31229 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Sarigan, 4, #639 of 847 🔗

Good for your son.
In regards to Oakman Inns, they will still be keeping all government guidelines when they open up. 2 m rule , screens , 1 way etc. I don’t want to drink / eat in an environment like that.

31330 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to smileymiley, 1, #640 of 847 🔗

“Guidelines”
Not laws

31521 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to steve, #641 of 847 🔗

It’s the insurance that’s the problem, I think.

31223 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 8, #642 of 847 🔗

We are in the process of buying a new property so getting removal quotes in. This is the from the first lot yesterday.

ADVICE TO CUSTOMERS DURING MOVES DURING CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC
Following guidance issued by the government and our trade body the British Association of Removers, please find below our advice and requirements to help minimise the risk of the spread of COVID 19.

– Please advise the office immediately if anyone in the household develops any symptoms of COVID 19 or has come into contact with anyone with symptoms

– Please can you deep clean your home and effects in preparation for the move – No

– Wherever possible, please self-pack miscellaneous and non-breakable items

– Wherever possible dismantle and re-assemble items of furniture

– Only one member of the household to be present during the removal and the 2 metre social distance to be maintained at all times – No

– Try to keep pets from coming into contact with staff members

– Please wear a facemask/visor during the removal process – No

– Please provide access to toilet facilities and hand washing and where possible leave this space available to our crew only – No

– Open windows and doors to maximise ventilation

– Leave internal doors open to avoid contact

– If possible provide a kettle for the staff to make their own refreshments and the crew will provide their own cups/tea bags etc – No

Thank you for your assistance in the matter and if you wish to discuss anything with us, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Kind regards.


Thought they’d be bedwetters when they said they would only do the quotation via video call!

My reply in bold

31237 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to smileymiley, 1, #643 of 847 🔗

Thanks for this. I am trying to move house at the moment. I don’t suppose in exchange for all this guff, they offer a discount. I’m guessing it’s a no on that!

31277 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to smileymiley, 3, #644 of 847 🔗

So the movers can share a loo with each other, but not with you!

31380 ▶▶ Paul, replying to smileymiley, 2, #645 of 847 🔗

So you would being paying them to come into your home,tell you what you can and can’t do and pay them for pleasure ?,what a bunch of morons.

31225 Cheezilla, #646 of 847 🔗

He’s a puppet of our friend Bill.

31228 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 4, #647 of 847 🔗

The BBC refuses to investigate whether lockdown theory is justified, totally ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

But when it comes to promoting racial divisions that will, it hopes, lead to riots, it is all too willing to devote acres of website to innuendo, insuation, invention and special pleading.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53076269

I once had to help restrain a young man at uni who went crazy – probably a form of epilepsy – he was flailing around blindly attacking people. He was not very big or muscular but could almost equal the strength of the five of us restraining him

The idea that it is easy to safely arrest and restrain a powerfully built knife-wielding male in a crazed state is something that only the BBC could come up with.

You will not “stay safe” with the BBC making the decisions..

31281 ▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 1, #648 of 847 🔗

I see Trump has banned chokeholds except where the officer’s life is in danger, or something along those lines.

I saw a podcast from someone with military experience saying that without chokeholds the main other option for getting control of someone would be beating them with a baton (I suppose there are also Tasers but he didn’t mention those, and they also have their dangers) which risks giving them brain damage. His view was that chokeholds, properly applied, were a safer option for all parties. And to be clear, his view was that what happened to George Floyd was disgraceful – he certainly wasn’t defending what was done.

31367 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Julian, 1, #649 of 847 🔗

Or you could just shoot the guy with a revolver… This may well end up being the unintended consequence.

31369 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Julian, #650 of 847 🔗

10 seconds in training, 1 minute on the street, maximum.

It’s amazing how quickly it goes on, goodnight Vienna.

31441 ▶▶▶ Robert West, replying to Julian, #651 of 847 🔗

Choking someone is never acceptable when restraining them. The prison service have been using ‘Control and restraint’ techniques since the mid 80’s. It is based on arm locks and wrist locks using 4 officer teams and constantly checking airways is part of the drill.
As regards to us going to defcon 2 or whatever, like many on here, it seems the government is living in a totally different world…

31483 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Robert West, #652 of 847 🔗

Interesting. Sounds like something that law enforcement should look into.

31558 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Robert West, #653 of 847 🔗

“Choking someone is never acceptable when restraining them.” – yes it is, particularly when you’re on your own. Context is key.

But, if you’re on own with multiple attackers, there are other more destructive methods.

Boo hoo, how sad, never mind.

31252 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Steve, 2, #655 of 847 🔗

The five mile rule is actually in the legislation (just as the 2 metre rule is v the approach taken in England), but is accompanied by the reasonable excuse to travel further. So if you are going to the supermarket but drive past a couple of supermarkets to go to the one you want to, which is further than five miles from home, you would risk getting fined as you have (a) travelled outside the five mile limit and (b) there isn’t a reasonable excuse to travel further because you could have done your shopping closer to home. That ‘reasonable excuse’ would be challengeable in court if you refused to pay the fine. If you could only afford to shop in Aldi, for example, and the two supermarkets you passed by were Waitrose and Sainsburys. As you can see – complicated and not set in stone. A clearer example would be if I travelled from South East Wales to Tenby to visit the beach. There are beaches much closer and would travelling that far just to go to a beach be a reasonable excuse? Doubtful but always arguable. Ridiculous rule – needs to be gone asap.

31365 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to The Spingler, 2, #656 of 847 🔗

It kind of shows how far we’ve come that going to any shop or beach has some kind of presumption of “unreasonableness” that has to be defended against.

31407 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to guy153, 1, #657 of 847 🔗

You’re right. But I’ve been to a good few beaches recently. So shucks to the Gestapo.

31406 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, #658 of 847 🔗

Ridiculous indeed.
If you travelled from SEWales to Tenby to visit the beach, you would be most welcome, at least to me.
I think we can even offer you a public loo. Amazing.
Oh, and our Smith’s is planning to re-open on Monday, amid such a blizzard of blue stickers that it must be impossible for any light to penetrate the leper-haunted caverns within. Not that I’ll be going in there.

31513 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to annie, 1, #659 of 847 🔗

Thanks Annie – Tenby is one of my favourite places. We will be free soon whether Dragfeet likes it or not.

31520 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, #660 of 847 🔗

We must meet when this lousy war is over.

31248 Melangell, replying to Melangell, #661 of 847 🔗

Can anyone help with this heated discussion I’m having on social media? A (soon to be erstwhile) client who lives in Vermont has just accused me of supporting Trump (I don’t!) saying that in the USA “The millions of people WHO DON’T DIE from the virus are overwhelming our hospitals and health care system. 600,000 people are ill with cv and 300 health workers are dead trying to keep people alive.” I honestly don’t know what to say to that as I’m more au fait with the UK situation, but unfortunately I have a lot of clients in the USA and need to interact with them. I’d appreciate any feedback!

31269 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Melangell, #662 of 847 🔗

Hopefully someone on top of the US situation will have numbers for you, but it’s always hard to contest out of context numerical assertions like that. My impression is certainly that most hospitals in the US are as under-utilised as they are here and that covid has had little impact overall outside a few hotspots where they probably made things worse by policy choices, as in New York.

But judging from the accusation you mention, your particular contact is evidently one of the many who are probably irredeemably prejudiced on the issue by Trump Derangement, which is very common in the US. They can never forgive him for saying politically incorrect things and yet still getting elected. Everything in life for these people becomes subordinate to blaming and denigrating Trump. This piece that Toby posted the other day illustrates the mentality quite nicely:

The Corona Virus Doesn’t Spread in Gatherings I Support

31271 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Melangell, #663 of 847 🔗

Hi Melangell, can you ask for tangible proof of the numbers your client(s) are preporting? i.e. URLs to news stories. Most of these mad claims fall apart when the data or facts are checked with an objective, un-hysterical mind. I deal with American clients a fair bit and none of them are making those claims above.

31279 ▶▶ matt, replying to Melangell, 3, #664 of 847 🔗

Well, mostly the arguments are the same as they are here – there’s no evidence that lockdown has improved the situation anywhere, some evidence that it makes no difference. And in the face of lack of evidence, you can’t justify the damage lockdown causes.

Firstly, the “millions would have died” argument is boloney and fundamentally goes back to the predictions made by the Imperial model. You can pretty easily show that it’s almost certainly rubbish by 1) pointing to Sweden, where nothing like as many people have died as Ferguson predicted, despite Sweden making a similar care homes mistake to the UK. Also, based on the 0.26% IFR rate published by the US Center for Disease Control, even for 1 million people to have died, the US would have to have a population of 384,000,000 people and absolutely everyone in the country would have to have caught it (the current population of the US is about 330,000,000).

Regarding hospitalisations – I would be really, really surprised if that number of 600k was currently anything like correct. We had 490 hospital admissions reported in yesterday’s stats. Let’s assume the average hospital stay is 2 weeks (about right, I think), that would suggest around 6,800 people currently in hospital in the UK. The US s roughly 5.5 times the size of the UK and overall a little behind the UK on the pandemic curve, so that would imply that there should be around 38,000 people in hospital today. Let’s be generous, call it 50,000. The only way that there could possibly be 600,000 would be if the epidemic was much, much worse in the US than it is in the UK. But the news doesn’t suggest that’s true. I can’t show you stats though – not sure if they’re available.

Someone posted here a week or two ago a link to a study which compared bordering counties in Illinois (blue state – lockdown) and Ohio (red state – no lockdown). He study showed that here was a lower infection rate in Illinois, a little, but actually a lower death rate in Ohio So there’s that.

31458 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, #665 of 847 🔗

By the way, the same calculation I used above to show that the US would need to have a population of 384M to reach a death rate of 1M (assuming everyone was infected) also says that the UK would need to have an infected population of a bit more than 193M to hit Imperial’s 500k death numbers.

31290 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Melangell, 2, #666 of 847 🔗

This site (CDC so pretty “official”) shows cumulative hospitalization rate as 89.3 per 100,000, which gives a total of about 300,000.

But that’s cumulative, so to say “600,000 ARE ill with cv” is arguably inaccurate, assuming “ill” means “in hospital”

The weekly rate seems to be around 5 per 100,000, which would give 32,000 currently in hospital if you assume average 2 week stay

That seems about the right ballpark if you think that the average ICU utilisation in the UK was I think around 4,000

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

It’s always good to be able to quote figures at people, but to save time you could also try asking them to give references for their assertions

31297 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #667 of 847 🔗

Interesting that your and matt’s back of envelope estimates, using separate starting info, came out in the same ballpark (32,000 and 38,000). Tends to give more confidence in a guesstimate of up to 50k absolute max, and to support the suggestion that the figure of 600,000 is utter bollocks (if as you say by “ill” they mean “in hospital”, which seems pretty plausible as sub-hospital cases of covid don’t put any meaningful pressure on healthcare resources).

31302 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 4, #668 of 847 🔗

In normal times, talking utter bollocks should be punishable only by mockery. In times like these, there’s an argument that spreading panic when you patently don’t know what you’re talking about is irresponsible and immoral and should attract some more severe punishment.

I am more and more amazed how many people there are who simply don’t seem to have the mental capacity to reason about numbers, percentages, averages, probability, proportions. Most of the maths we learn in school after age 11 or 12 is useless to most of us, but being able to understand this kind of stuff is so important when thinking about what’s happening in the world.

31386 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #669 of 847 🔗

I remember a moment of realisation about 15 years ago, when I suddenly discovered that algebra had a real application and that I needed to use it to get to an answer I needed at work.

Regardless, if I could only be an outside observer, I would be finding this time fascinating. People’s inability to judge risk or proportion. The power of nudge theory and social conformity to influence behaviour and bring out the worst in society. People’s inability to do their own research – or apathy, or gullibility, not sure which of the 3. People’s expectation that the government should in fact be their mother and should keep them safe and look after them when things are difficult.

God knows how many books are going to be written of the back of this hateful social experiment in the future. Like I say, if I could be an outside observer, watching the lab rats, it would be fascinating. Unfortunately, like all of us, I just one of the lab rats.

31382 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #670 of 847 🔗

“ Interesting that your and matt’s back of envelope estimates, using separate starting info,”

It is interesting, yes and it gives some confidence in the back of a fag packet comparisons. What I find more interesting is that there are a number of occasions when these kinds of extrapolations get you to numbers that actually match the reported numbers. Somebody here the other day posted something about a country having revised its Covid deaths numbers down significantly and gave a percentage. That percentage – when applied to the UK reported deaths – came out with a figure strikingly close to the “only Covid on the certificate” figures for the UK.

What that says to me, is that the epidemic curve (infection rate, hospitalisations, deaths) is remarkably predictable, if you have historical data and so it lends weight to the basic argument that lockdown measures and the varying degrees of lockdown actually makes very little difference.

31492 ▶▶ Theygorightgoleft, replying to Melangell, #671 of 847 🔗

https://mobile.twitter.com/EthicalSkeptic

This account has it covered.

31249 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #672 of 847 🔗

Excuse me if this is a stupid question but are there any scientific studies out there on the efficacy of lockdowns? Seems such a basic question but I don’t think I’ve seen it asked. It’s all well and good arguing masks or no masks, 1 or 2 metres but the data is widely available for any scientists who want to get to the crux. Hell, they could even input the data into a computer model 😊

31268 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #673 of 847 🔗

In terms of masks there seems to be a set of “experts” who think they work and another set of “experts” who say they don’t work. I think any study has always been done under lab conditions so probably isn’t really a fair test.

31273 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to ambwozere, 3, #674 of 847 🔗

I’ve read the extensive literature on masks but I think very few (any??) scientists have attempted to tackle the key question.

31294 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to ambwozere, 1, #675 of 847 🔗

I haven’tr seen any papers by ‘experts’ backed up with data that say they work. Plenty of papers backed up by data that say they don’t. So I am bewildered by the sheep mentality.

31298 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #676 of 847 🔗

As far as I know, “lockdowns” of the kind we have seen recently have never really been attempted before – another good reason for not doing them.

The evidence seems to me to point to it making more difference how well you manage protecting the vulnerable, and possibly how effective your treatments are, rather than the severity of the lockdown.

And there’s no viable exit strategy from a lockdown, so even if they worked, you’ve not solved the problem, just postponed it, and made yourselves poor and miserable in the process.

31304 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Julian, 1, #677 of 847 🔗

Follow up question – could we / this site crowd fund our own scientific paper? Get right to the point

31307 ▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to Julian, 1, #678 of 847 🔗

Well, they’re stone age medicine really rather than anything to do with techno-fascist modernism. The hieroglyphics and smoke signals are better this time round, though.

31360 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Julian, #679 of 847 🔗

Mexico locked down during the swine flu in which killed less than 200 people. It was abandoned after 2 weeks due to the economic impact:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/apr/30/swine-flu-mexico-government-lockdown

https://www.wired.com/2009/06/apocalypse-not-behind-swine-flu-hysteria/

31518 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, #680 of 847 🔗

A virus that only killed swine? We could do with that one.

But I’m not thinking of the useful animals that grunt snd make bacon.

31335 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tom Blackburn, #681 of 847 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8347901/US-states-LOWER-infection-rates-lockdowns-end-study-claims.html

Sorry it’s the Mail. Not exactly a scientific study but a review of the evidence so far.

31250 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 8, #682 of 847 🔗

As I am sitting in my shop trying to avoid the pungent aroma of someone’s bloody hand sanitiser. I am wondering if I could be really subversive and ban anyone who does use it from my shop.

31261 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 5, #683 of 847 🔗

Oh no, the lady who soaks her face mask in TCP is in also. My shop smells like a ruddy hospital …

31374 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 1, #684 of 847 🔗

Soaks her mask in TCP ? !,that’s really high on the coronphobic madness scale,I bet it smells lovely for ages after she’s left !.

31613 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, #685 of 847 🔗

It’s really horrible. The sad thing is she has learning difficulties so she probably thinks it’s good for her, poor thing.

31264 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to kh1485, 5, #686 of 847 🔗

Once upon a time middle England used to cry about not being able to see people inside burkhas.

“I have to take my helmet off at petrol stations” etc

31317 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #687 of 847 🔗

Quite right! I nearly bought one of these in case I need to go on PT just to make the point but they’re quite expensive in this country.

31266 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #688 of 847 🔗

I see from UK Column today that AstraZeneca have started production of the Oxford vaccine prior to approval. I am not au fait with FOI requests but is there such a thing for the contents of the vaccine?

31275 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 3, #689 of 847 🔗

‘Prior to approval’ – sounds like it has not been properly tested then, and that ‘approval’ is taken as a given…hmm. Will it be as successful as the NHS tracing app?

31353 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Sarigan, 1, #690 of 847 🔗

They have millions of doses ready and they dont even know if it will work!

31362 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nic, 1, #691 of 847 🔗

It’ll work well enough to call it good and start using it. In these unprecedented times we can have a bit more of a “safety third” attitude than usual.

31272 Bart Simpson, 1, #692 of 847 🔗

Finally heard from Kate Spade. Thought their reply was better than Waterstones but there we go again, the dreaded “s” word:

Good Morning XXXXXX,
Thank you for your email and for your patience!
I am sorry to hear of your concerns regarding the health and safety measures that have been put in place in our UK stores. I understand that you are worried about our store muses wearing masks; please know that this is not a mandatory request we have made of our staff – they are free to wear a mask should they choose to do so if it will make them feel more comfortable whilst returning to work. I completely understand that you fear that customers might not be able to properly understand or be able to converse naturally with staff members wearing a mask, however, we do want to make sure that as many of our staff and customers feel as safe and assured as possible whilst shopping with us, especially during these initial weeks of reopening.
Our customer and employee safety is our top priority; we are looking to government guidance regarding social distancing, which does include a queuing system. This is in place to ensure that our staff and customers are comfortably able to keep a 2 metre distance at all times. I am sorry that you feel that this is perhaps an unnatural way to shop and will detract from the pleasure of the experience. These measures will not be in place forever, and hopefully soon we will be able to return to our usual ways of operating!
We do appreciate and thank you for your feedback, as we always love to hear from our customers on how we can improve our services.
If you have any further queries or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us!
Kindest regards,
XXXX
Customer Service Supervisor

31274 ianric, replying to ianric, 15, #693 of 847 🔗

Does anyone feel that coronavirus has become a religion because I see that coronavirus has many aspects of a religion:-

Religions have rituals – Coronavirus brings rituals such as social distancing, masks, wearing gloves, one way systems, using hand sanitiser.

People who don’t follow the beliefs of a religion are regarded as heretics or sinners – People who don’t follow the rituals of coronavirus are condemned eg people who don’t social distance, don’t wear masks, gather in groups and countries who don’t lockdown are condemned such as Sweden.

Religions often believe people will be punished for their sins – people who don’t follow coronavirus rituals will be punished by catching the disease.

Religions often believe that must make sacrifices to appease their gods eg the mayans carried out human sacrifices to appease sun gods – the lockdown is a sacrifice people must make to appease the coronavirus god.

31276 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to ianric, 3, #694 of 847 🔗

Shhh, best keep these thoughts to yourself otherwise the inquisitors will be round to toruture you for spreading heresy or you’ll be burned at the stake for being a witch.

31319 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #695 of 847 🔗

Don’t be silly, they don’t burn people for being a witch any more. Do you think this is the dark ages? They get burned for believing in freedom.

31322 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #696 of 847 🔗

Or even worse ‘the comfy cushions ‘…..

31312 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to ianric, 4, #697 of 847 🔗

It is like a little Jesus to the John the Baptist of Man-made Climate Science.

We’ve had years and years for people to tacitly accept that MMCS is applicable to the real world rather than being an exercise in virtual wanking.

31404 ▶▶ annie, replying to ianric, 1, #698 of 847 🔗

A couple if weeks back, this site had a link to an excellent article on precisely that subject.
There is no god but Covid and Lockdown is its profit.

31278 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 27, #699 of 847 🔗

Nobody gives a fuck how cautious Sturgeon wants Scotland to be. And when I say nobody, I mean this based on my recent essential food shopping trip today.

The weather’s decent up here. Lidl, as I suspected, has quietly and unofficially dropped the queuing system. The last twice I’ve been in there’s been no queue, and today the shop was very busy. Think a typical Friday afternoon when the weather’s looking to be nice.

Quite a few mask wearers though, but probably percentage-wise, about the same as I normally see in there. But yeah, it’s was BUSY! With small clusters of people standing side-by-side browsing the aisles and no apparent hedge-jumpers.

At the checkout I asked the girl if the queue had been ditched. She sighed and said, “I’ve no idea what they’re doing. But I hope so because it takes the pressure of us needing to have someone outside the whole time. Some people will probably complain that the shops too busy. But we just need to get back to normal.”

To which I replied, “then they should stay at home until its quieter.”

I told her I’ve driven past the shop on a few occasions because the queue’s been too long and I’ve come back when it’s quieter.

Then I had to nip into a Scot-Mid for a few bits and it was as if it was half an hour before the kick off of an Old Firm Game. Very, very busy. And social distancing seemed to have gone out the window while queuing for the checkout.

My final port of call was the trusty bakery, which has remained opened and welcoming. Ahead of me in the queue was a woman who looked to be in her early 80s. As the baker was bagging up her food they chatted about the lockdown and she said, “we’re just all sick of it now.”

So while Sturgeon and her Dentist-in-Chief brace themselves against the backlash of pubs remaining closed (“Well, they’re not open in England either”, is her rebuttal), and urge people not to push the boundaries, it seems we Scots, the ones who don’t belong to the SNP Cult, are doing our best to just get back to normal, with our without the blessings of the SNP.

31334 ▶▶ Evelyn, replying to Mark H, 5, #700 of 847 🔗

I was in Lidl today as well (Scotland) and was pleasantly surprised….. as you say, no queues and no one giving wide body swerves to get past, it almost felt as if things were back to ‘normal’.

31342 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Evelyn, 3, #701 of 847 🔗

Same with Morrison’s. OK the barriers were still there and you have to walk a bit to get to the basket checkout section but it seemed almost normal – the fresh fish, meat and hot food counters have been open for the last 3 weeks as well.

In addition, the car wash that I go past during my walks looks very normal – no antisocial distancing and no-one wearing masks!

31348 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #702 of 847 🔗

Forgot to add that the stickers outside my local M&S and Morrisons have disappeared as well.

31455 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark H, 1, #703 of 847 🔗

Just seen this Twitter thread about a hotel’s new rules for guests – don’t think they will be getting many visitors! https://twitter.com/CartDes/status/1274009087391473666
Personally I feel that taking people’s temperatures (especially adults) is too much of an intrusion, as if people cannot be trusted to do the sensible thing if they are ill and stay away..

31293 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 6, #704 of 847 🔗

I’v ordered my muzzled British bull dog T-shirt to help spread the good word while I’m out n about, but I could do with some T shirts for the other days of the week if anyone can help, some suggestions…..

Stay sceptical, End the lockdown, Save lives
Remain terrified, Question nothing, Stay home
#say no to bill gates
#NO new normal

31299 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Major Panic, 1, #705 of 847 🔗

I’ve used this site before now and it’s pretty easy to design your own t-shirt and get it printed:

https://www.shirtinator.co.uk/

Certainly if you just want your own text on it you can do that very easily. The shirts I got were of decent quality.

31315 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mark, 3, #706 of 847 🔗

great, thanks for that, I’ll get on it in the morning…
Further inspiration, all stolen from others…

JUST SAY NO – to Bill Gates
WARNING – the media is the virus

31338 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Major Panic, 1, #707 of 847 🔗

COVID1984 is one of my favourites. There are some excellent options here:

https://www.redbubble.com/shop/covid+19+t-shirts

31341 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #708 of 847 🔗

Among a whole load of virtuous ones I must add. A bit more specific:

https://www.redbubble.com/shop/?iaCode=u-tees&query=hoax%2C%20corona&ref=search_box

31391 ▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, 4, #709 of 847 🔗

I’M NOT A LEPER, DON’T TREAT ME LIKE ONE.

31517 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, #710 of 847 🔗

PS Just ordered that one.

31398 ▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, 1, #711 of 847 🔗

I’ve got “#nolockdown” and “free hugs” tee shirts off Amazon.

31301 Chris John, replying to Chris John, 19, #712 of 847 🔗

I’m so fucking angry at the glacial pace at which we are trying to escape the clutches of the SAGE gurus.
I think that the blonde bimbo in number 10 should have at least 5 laymen involved in their meetings to prick their egos and call out their idiocy.
Liz needs to get involved and tell Boris he ain’t cutting it.

31318 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Chris John, #713 of 847 🔗

I think whatever happens they are sticking to the same timeline,all aimed at getting to september without changing much,
That’s when the oxford vaccine if it works becomes available i could be wrong
But tracking app sep earliest ,schools etc just makes me wonder what there game is.
Hancock even said yesterday that over 50s will get it first. They must be confident.
Not that iam pro vaccinei just mythinking on the present situation

31328 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nic, 11, #714 of 847 🔗

No vaccine for me thank you.

31333 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nic, 7, #715 of 847 🔗

I agree with you. The reason for keeping this farce going can only be about the vaccine – BoJo has promised his mates in Big Pharma and the Gates Foundation that we will lead the way in this as a massive control experiment. I am over 50, and will be standing aside on the vaccine until all Cabinet ministers, their partners, children and parents have been given it!

31339 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Nic, 7, #716 of 847 🔗

All MPs and the civil service first thank you very much.
Followed by journalists and anyone who has had Common Purpose training.

31363 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Chris John, 3, #717 of 847 🔗

The common purpose “graduates” are useful idiots and will lap up the vaccine happily. They don’t understand themselves what CP is. It gives them salaries way beyond what their limited ability deserves, but ultimately they are simply cogs in the machine. Still a good suggestion though.

Speaking for myself, I will not be participating in use of any vaccine that has had perhaps ten times less testing than is conventional. Conspiracy theory vaccine or not, the risks of side effects outweigh any puny covid risk.

31516 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Chris John, #718 of 847 🔗

Alas, there is no vaccine against stupidity.The gods contend un vain.

31346 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Nic, 7, #719 of 847 🔗

I won’t receiving the vaccine, I’m just over 50, they’ll have to taser me first.

31421 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #720 of 847 🔗

I suspect that that will be arranged!

31422 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to IanE, 1, #721 of 847 🔗

p.s. You and me both.

31554 ▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to IanE, #722 of 847 🔗

I’ll see how many I take down with me!

31358 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Nic, 7, #723 of 847 🔗

Apart from the fact that no vaccine has yet been developed for coronaviruses (e.g. common cold), it takes years to develop and safely test a vaccine. Flu vaccines are notoriously ‘hit-and-miss’ because viruses keep mutating.

Nonetheless, it seems that Astra Zeneca are ploughing ahead with making huge numbers of doses prior to the drug’s getting approval this autumm , ready to test on all those willing guinea-pigs. Well, I’m with Winston and Bella Donna. It will have to be by force in this 67-year-old’s case.

31372 ▶▶ Marion, replying to Chris John, #724 of 847 🔗

If you mean the queen, well, she has kept her head down for years and has never, ever, ever rocked the boat. She even came out of hiding in Balmoral to talk on the telly about Diana, who damaged the royal family beyond measure, not that they didn’t deserve it. The queen wants, and has had, a quiet life, one of enormous privilege and comfort, why should she do anything that might slightly discomfort her? Her great age lets her off, slightly.

31396 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Marion, 2, #725 of 847 🔗

Sigh … it’s not her place to tell the government what to do! (See my other comment).

31451 ▶▶▶▶ Marion, replying to John P, #726 of 847 🔗

Sigh….I didn’t say she should tell the government what to do but maybe she should make more of a stand for the British people…to be honest I don’t know what she could do, nothing, probably, so she does nothing and mouths platitudes on the telly.

31390 ▶▶ John P, replying to Chris John, #727 of 847 🔗

Liz?

31392 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, 1, #728 of 847 🔗

If you mean the Queen, it’s not her place. She’s only the (ceremonial) head of state.

It’s the PM’s job to run the country not to be her paid lackey. Ministers do not do the Queen’s bidding.

31316 Nic, replying to Nic, 12, #729 of 847 🔗

I left school in 1981 .often wonder he we would have reacted to this in the 1980 s no social media etc ,I think wed have coped a lot better any one agree?

31320 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nic, 25, #730 of 847 🔗

Better, for sure. No social media, no 24 hour global news. No online shopping or internet, no working from home, 4 TV channels. I don’t think lockdown would have occurred to anyone and if it had it wouldn’t have lasted long.

31323 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Nic, 2, #731 of 847 🔗

Agreed

31325 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nic, 15, #732 of 847 🔗

100% agree. As Julian says we only have the option of lockdown at all because of the internet allowing us to work at home and order things online. Shops would have had to stay open. People didn’t expect the government to solve everything back then either and they laughed at anything approaching health and safetyism (if it even existed). I think we would have barely noticed.

31352 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #733 of 847 🔗

Yes you are so right people in their 40s then had lived through the war and experienced real fear.

31326 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nic, 12, #734 of 847 🔗

With social media as well, I think everyone is so caught up in the importance of their own platform, their own narrative and story and how they are living through such “unprecedented times” that they can barely see past the end of their own noses let alone question anything they are being told.

31351 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #735 of 847 🔗

I long for 1981 !

31525 ▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Nic, 1, #736 of 847 🔗

Yup. You could smoke in the pub.

31368 ▶▶ matt, replying to Nic, 2, #737 of 847 🔗

I think it would have been completely impossible. With no social media, no internet and no video calling, nobody would have to,erased it for more than about two weeks. Which would have been good.

31331 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 13, #738 of 847 🔗

I have the radio on at the moment and there is live coverage of today’s briefing. Gavin Williamson is talking like he is reading a bedtime story, not delivering an important statement from one of the major offices of state. Again, I know I keep saying it, but I despair.

31343 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to kh1485, 9, #739 of 847 🔗

He is one of the most intellectually challenged ministers of not just this generation, but of any. Indeed, it is quite difficult to understand how he made it into parliament, let alone the Cabinet. Of course, he is in pretty good company when you look around both benches. The lunatics really are running the asylum.

31355 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #740 of 847 🔗

Perhaps during his time in the Whips’ Office, he accumulated dirt on someone! Mind you, I can’t imagine him issuing threats to anyone, he is so wet.

31361 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to kh1485, 6, #741 of 847 🔗

I think there is something in that. Pretty much everyone who scales the upper echelons of the public sector and politics has one or more nasty little secrets. If you are ‘clean’, there are no levers to pull, so you are likely to be pushed aside. Consequently the ones who get to the top are usually less able, but more malleable.

31388 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #742 of 847 🔗

“so you are likely to be pushed aside”

I’m sorry, I don’t agree with you – by whom?

Your comment seems from my reading of it to presuppose that there must be someone “clean” who is doing this pushing.

Politicians are all much of a muchness in my opinion. Good at self promotion and very little else.




31416 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #743 of 847 🔗

I keep thinking of the film ‘Idiocracy’.

31464 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to IanE, #744 of 847 🔗

Funny you should say that. I have decided that my great epic about Lord Tony and his Sceptic Knights Overcoming the Forces of Evil should be couched in homeric hexameters and will complete the trilogy:
We’ve had the Iliad. And the Odyssey.
Now, the conclusion: The Idiocy.

31415 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 1, #745 of 847 🔗

Yeah, Frank Spencer impersonator – got to love him (not).

31337 Little Red Hen, #746 of 847 🔗

So you got the flu in March…

And in response to this ‘flu’:

I have lost my job.

We will now lose our home because I cannot find work and housing benefits is capped at a figure that does not cover most private rents.

My children have missed their exams after years and years of school study.

They have also missed all that school entails – sport, community, events, trips, experiences, joy.

They are bereft, dispirited, lonely and voiceless.

The small business I worked for is closing down after 38 years trading as it can’t get back up off it’s knees.

The 37 employees are my age and older (45 – 65) and are out of work, some for the first time ever, and are bewildered and frightened.

I have used all my savings staying afloat.

As a family we are facing a frightening and poor future, with nothing in the bank and no certainty about the children’s own prospects in either education or work.

While you were sweating in bed and feeling rough, our lives were upended and smashed up. We have done absolutely nothing wrong and yet we are suffering total loss.
How do you square this?





31347 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #748 of 847 🔗

Apparently we have moved to stage 3 – what’s that all about then? 🤨

31349 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Major Panic, #749 of 847 🔗

2nd wave imminent 😉

31354 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #750 of 847 🔗

What? Again? – talk about crying wolf!

31359 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Major Panic, 4, #751 of 847 🔗

Yep. All of the protesters will super spread the virus that was saved up from VE Day and the bank holiday weekend. Sorry

31356 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Major Panic, 11, #752 of 847 🔗

I think it means that if you develop a new continuous sense of humour, especially a dry sense of humour, you MUST report yourself to the authorities immediately for reconditioning.

31357 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to guy153, 1, #753 of 847 🔗

Ohwww

31364 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Major Panic, 8, #754 of 847 🔗

Means the government is now only about two months behind reality. Better than the opposition, the unions and the media, but not by much and with less excuse.

31370 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Mark, 2, #755 of 847 🔗

Couldn’t agree more, we were at Nando’s level 1 months ago.

31371 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Major Panic, 9, #756 of 847 🔗

It means the government are too thick to even follow their own schemes. It’s been obvious we’re at Level 2 for quite some time now. To even suggest we were still at Level 4 was so far removed from reality that I can’t quite believe they’ve got away with it for this long. No wonder the majority of the population are so scared if they still think it’s growing exponentially!

31376 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #757 of 847 🔗

2 referees to the IQ of the cabinet

31378 ▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to steve, 1, #758 of 847 🔗

Sorry fookin spelling “autocorrect”and no edit

31389 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to steve, #759 of 847 🔗

Should be preceded by a minus sign then.

31387 ▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, 1, #760 of 847 🔗

They drop part of the rocket?

31350 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #761 of 847 🔗

Now the likes of Primark are welcoming our money , sorry welcoming us back, though we would take a stroll round town tomorrow.

We have our own PPE as you can see.

Nothing can stop us now.

31515 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, #762 of 847 🔗

Excellent.
Another possibility: dust masks, designed to let through everything except dust, and then let you breathe out all the junk you just breathed in ( except the dust), plus anything else you may be harbouring in the virus line.
But they didn’t specify what sort of mask, did they?

31373 Mark, replying to Mark, 6, #763 of 847 🔗

Intolerance of dissent:
Katie Hopkins permanently suspended by Twitter for breaking ‘abuse and hate’ rules

Long past time there were significant conservative run free speech alternatives to the leftist censors of Twitter, Facebook and the like, promoted by mainstream conservatives and to explicitly allow all political opinion no matter how “extreme”, provided it falls within US First Amendment rules. It would have to be run from the US because speech is not free in law, in the EU and UK.

Mainstream conservatives need to be strong on this and stand on the principle that “sharing a platform” does not mean endorsing another’s opinion, because otherwise they are merely recreating the situation that led us to where we are now. When you exclude opinions more extreme than your own, you become the remaining extremist.

31377 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 3, #764 of 847 🔗

Long past time there were significant conservative run free speech alternatives to the leftist censors of Twitter, Facebook and the like”

Yes, we need some billionaires who don’t care who they upset. Elon Musk?

31383 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #765 of 847 🔗

Conservative?

It would need to be someone of that level of wealth, though, because it would be difficult to get established early on, and it would also have to be someone with a very strong personal and long term commitment to freedom of speech. The pressures from identity lobbyist groups to censor racist, anti-semitic, homophobic etc etc opinion would be colossal, and would ultimately include denying basic internet access and banking services, as we have seen done in the past.

Tbh I’m not sure it can even be done at all, I suspect we might have “progressed” beyond freedom of speech, globally.

31385 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 1, #766 of 847 🔗

Maybe he’s more of a libertarian than a conservative. Given where we are now, I’d take that.

But probably too late, yes.

31399 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #767 of 847 🔗

A hard line, genuine libertarian, yes, that would be fine. A lot of self-described “libertarians” are just modern pseudo-liberals.

31384 ▶▶ John P, replying to Mark, 1, #768 of 847 🔗

I’m very sorry to hear that. I’ve taken a break from the news this week so I wasn’t aware.

I’d only recently started reading her twitter page. I couldn’t fault her really. And I’m not sure I’d even call myself a conservative.

I seem to recall that she recently described herself (on twitter) as a white Christian conservative.

The hate seems to come from her detractors. I noticed that many of her twitter critics seemed to enjoy posting replies which referring to her by female body parts and other such obscenities. She seemed to take it all with good grace.

What was her thought crime? My guess is that it might have been for asking the leftist mob too many awkward questions.

31395 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 7, #769 of 847 🔗

She’s a serial offender as far as the “woke” are concerned. She just refuses to comply with modern limits to freedom of opinion. Not sure what the latest pretext was.

Tbh I’ve never been a follower and usually only hear of her when she is the target of a baying leftist mob for some new “outrage”. I did see her on this show a few months back:

Freedom of speech ‘no longer exists’ in Australia and the UK: Katie Hopkins
And I did see her reported as saying this a few weeks back , which seemed pretty reasonable to me:

“” A quick message to the doctors and nurses who are putting on co-ordinated dance routines for TikTok and other social media platforms: Please could you bloody well stop it?
“Could you just stop pratting about in wards, in hospitals, in full PPE and just focus on trying to be a professional?”
“Number one, your dancing about doesn’t really help us. We see that you’re having a lovely time at work and we respect the fact that you’ve still gone to work, but frankly, at this point many of us would like to go back to work in order to earn money, in order to feed our families.
“Number two, we’re told that PPE is in short supply, yet you seem to be wearing it to do your dance spectaculars. I don’t quite understand how that works out .
“Number three, if you could stop using expensive bits of kit as your dance routine props, that would be appreciated. It’s the British taxpayer that’s paying for the kit you’re dancing on and is not allowed access to it, because frankly at British hospitals, if you haven’t got corona, you’re not coming in.”
She also asked staff to “spare a thought” for people who are “desperate and dying to get into hospital” but are waiting for treatment.”

31401 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #770 of 847 🔗

Well. That’s appalling. How dare she? I’m surprised she hasn’t been put up against the wall and shot, let alone banned from Twitter.

31405 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mark, 4, #771 of 847 🔗

Yes, well I didn’t pay her much attention either until the lockdown, but she’s another very strong critic of it.

She often used the #coronabollocks handle, which I thought was quite good.

She even put on a mask as a disguise to film some of the woke mob in action at the BLM protest. I thought that was quite brave of her given some of the nasty abuse she used to get on twitter.

31436 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 3, #772 of 847 🔗

She’s got more balls than Johnson, for sure.

31507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, #773 of 847 🔗

I think many women do!

31444 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, 1, #774 of 847 🔗

Completely fair comments!!

31432 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, #775 of 847 🔗

She may have been confrontational, but her piece to camera the other day regarding the free school meals issue was very calm and balanced – quite a measured tone compared to some of her videos..

31403 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 2, #776 of 847 🔗

I think one of her biggest problems is that she does not conform to how a woman is supposed to think, speak, and behave – as judged by many other women. This makes it all too easy for ‘soy-boy’ men, who let’s face it are in charge of too many things in life now, including social media platforms, to silence.

31435 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #777 of 847 🔗

She’s definitely a remarkable character. On some issues she’s further out than I am, but in part that’s why I feel the need to defend her. Once she’s gone, I’m next in line, and I’m not alone in being in that position. That’s why we should all defend the speech rights and opportunities of those more “extreme” than ourselves.

She’s no shrinking violet, for sure. On the Sky Australia show I linked above, she was asked about her experiences as a result of speaking out in the modern “woke” west, and she prefaced her response with the following:

I accept everything that comes my way… I put myself out here, I have to suck it up. If I don’t like it, then I can go home, I can sit on my sofa and I can be quiet .”

Her account should be read by anyone who thinks we have freedom of speech in this country. Mind, the views she has been expressing are nothing like real race hatred or supremacism (which in themselves are anyway legitimate political opinions provided they don’t call directly for violent action), nor are they calls to violence. She has suffered all this for saying things that merely sound a bit similar to genuine race hatred etc, in the ears of her political enemies, or which might promote causes they hate, such as opposition to mass immigration:

As a result of speaking out about the truths of my country I have been arrested and interviewed under caution because of a column in a newspaper. I have been arrested and challenged because I made the point that Pakistani grooming gangs are made up of majority Pakistani muslim men, I was arrested for that. I have lost every job I ever had. I was a columnist – successful columnist, most read columnist – at Mail Online for two years, lost that job, lost my radio show, and then they came for my house. They made a new law just for me … that said… I can cause you serious harm if you perceive that I have caused you serious harm, and you don’t need to prove it. To isolate myself from all of the attacks I have sold everything. I own nothing and I have nothing, and that in a way has been very freeing. In order for me to obtain my freedom of speech I have given up everything, and that’s a sacrifice I’ve been very willing to make because I’m so proud and pleased and delighted to have such strong supporters and followers and I really thank the people that keep me going because they really matter….. I think people like me are needed because the more of us that have the moral courage to stand up and speak the truth of our countries, it helps to just push back the walls for a little bit longer and make other people feel that they’re not alone, because the truth of your audience is that it is lonely. People are lonely out there because they feel that no one else shares their opinion, or they can’t get to people that feel the same way, and I think these days, at these times, people are lonelier than they’ve ever been in their lifetime or at any time in history, and I’m here really to tell people: “you’re not alone, there’s many of us… .”.”

31449 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, #778 of 847 🔗

She is a strong woman, she also has epilepsy and has undergone operations to try and cure it, which she has spoken in some detail about..

31460 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #779 of 847 🔗

There are no women any more. Or men either.
Just got a survey from Fort Nelson (excellent military museum in Portsmouth) about what safety measures would make me ‘feel comfortable’ about re-visiting. No prizes for guessing my answers. But one question was ‘Do you identify as 1 male 2 female 3 don’t know 4 prefer not to say.’

No space allowed for replying ‘I AM a bloody woman, you moronic twat.’

31501 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to annie, #780 of 847 🔗

That might get you arrested these days as a hate crime! What I find very disconcerting is other women going along with the deeply misogynist trans lobby that seeks to invade female spaces and silence female voices.

31413 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mark, 1, #781 of 847 🔗

The fact this pathetic government is doing nothing to protect our freedom or liberty against the constant attack from Marxists proves something doesn’t it? They approve of it!!

31443 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella Donna, #782 of 847 🔗

They think if real conservatives are excluded from acceptability, we’ll have no choice but to keep voting for pathetic soft leftists like the current cabinet.

31379 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 6, #783 of 847 🔗

Good grief!
Matthew Gould, CEO of NHSX, I am sure he is a nice chap. MA in Divinity from Cambridge, and 13 years at the Foreign Office. A specialist (I kid you not) in “The frequency of termite (Isoptera) damage to tree species in Namakutwa Forest, Tanzania”
How on earth did such a person become head of an organisation for “digital transformation”? It is exactly the problem. A lack of understanding and respect for proper IT skills, and a sublimely arrogant belief that brainpower and general knowledge is a substitute for knowledge and skill.
Astonishingly, they also have a: CEO of Digital; a Head of Strategy; a Chief Digital Officer; and a Chief Technology Officer. That is more senior executives talking about it than the size of the team actually doing it!!

31394 ▶▶ matt, replying to WhyNow, 2, #784 of 847 🔗

Meh. In my experience, the worst person to run an IT department is an IT specialist. What you want is an experienced manager who can coordinate a team, understands their own limitations and has a group of immediate reports who are also good managers, but have specific technical skills. Honestly, depending on the number of people working in the organisation, what you describe could well be about right (and depending on who the CEO of Digital, HO Strategy, CDO and CTO are).

31442 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to WhyNow, 1, #785 of 847 🔗

‘How on earth did such a person become head of an organisation for “digital transformation”? ‘ – I would guess he has some ‘friends’ in high places!

31445 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, #786 of 847 🔗

Ask Harriet Harman …

31459 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to WhyNow, 1, #787 of 847 🔗

I am the lowliest of (thoroughly unqualified ;p ) IT workers and even I’m more qualified than this guy.

31397 Anonymous, 5, #789 of 847 🔗

Great post.

I appreciate the fact that some people refuse to participate in this idea of “new normal” and are living their lives now the way they did before the lockdowns. A month ago my family and I went on a week-long vacation to a beach in Alabama. In my entire life I have never been so happy to see other people–the people at the beaches, in the restaurants, on scooters and bicycles in the streets, in parks…

And all of this, with no masks or hysteria about COVID-19 anywhere in sight. It was like a dream. I’m an extreme introvert, but my finally re-entering public after being locked down for two months made me realize how much I missed the “old normal.” Boy, was it good to see people again!

Keep your heads up, lads–lockdown skeptics such as the epidemiologist/statistician John Ioannidis at Stanford have been working hard to undo the harm that entities like Neil Ferguson and the mainstream media have done to this world. We should all do our part to continue reversing the hysteria!

31400 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #790 of 847 🔗

Interesting data for Scotland:

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/in-numbers-how-coronavirus-is-taking-its-toll-on-scotland?top

Not a great deal of difference when compared to Sweden. Main difference being we have the all the extras that come with a lockdown.

Swedish data can be found here for comparison:

https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

Couple of things I noticed.

  1. New Daily cases have been dropping for a while in Scotland whereas Sweden cases have been rising. Number of cases does not automatically mean a proportional number of deaths
  2. Hospital and ICU admissions. Similar to point 1, most people who go to hospital don’t end up in ICU


So why all the fear of case numbers rising? Aiming for eradication is not managing the virus it’s wishing the problem away.

31411 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #791 of 847 🔗

Not ‘cases’. Positive test results.Cases require medical intervention, they’re skewing the figures as usual.

31412 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #792 of 847 🔗

As noted previously, Sweden case numbers are reflecting significant increase in testing.

31439 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to IanE, 2, #793 of 847 🔗

Looking I think sweden are on the downward curve well done to them

31418 annie, replying to annie, 36, #794 of 847 🔗

Ripped down four Covinotices today: three demanding s.d. and one ‘footpath closed’. Judging by the footprints on the path, this last had been steadily ignored for weeks, but still fun ripping it down. The other rude, nasty ones were on sticky- backed plastic and just peeled off. Rather fun, like transfers. Anybody else remember those? Mine always smudged.

Notices wrapped round dogshit and binned.

Feel good.

31453 ▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, 3, #795 of 847 🔗

Excellent. Please keep the updates coming.

31489 ▶▶ IanE, replying to annie, 2, #796 of 847 🔗

A load of bullshit wrapped up in dogshit. There is something very poetic in that!

31493 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to IanE, #797 of 847 🔗

Ooops, got that the wrong way round.

31448 Alice, replying to Alice, 6, #798 of 847 🔗

I know that most of us don’t feel like singing at the moment, but … Swing low, sweet chariot…” – it’s such a beautiful song!

31452 ▶▶ John P, replying to Alice, #799 of 847 🔗

When I saw that there was talk of rugby fans not being allowed to sing it I thought that it must be deemed racist … but apparently it’s an African-American spiritual.

I’m sure there must be a joke in this somewhere, if only I could think of it …

31465 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, #800 of 847 🔗

Apparently it’s cultural appropriation. But a black choir singing Bach isn’t, probably. It’s very sad indeed.

31478 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to John P, 1, #801 of 847 🔗

It was potentially racist because it was thought to have started with Chris Oti, who’s black, scored a try but it actually started with Martin Ofiah who’s nickname was Chariots Ofiah, hence Swing Low Sweet Chariot. Not sure why singing a song written by a black slave would be deemed racist anyway. If promoting black music is racist then the MOBOs should be banned.

31498 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #802 of 847 🔗

I listened to the Martin Ofiah interview on Sky earlier where he discussed this. However, I think the song’s association with rugby – especially at Twickenham – predates his playing days. I recall various work colleagues who were avid England rugby fans singing it at a training programme offsite (drinking games!) back in 1987. Is this correct?

31476 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Alice, 3, #803 of 847 🔗

On the subject of singing, more madness – the government want to ban singing from musicals when theatres re-open – WTF???? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8439675/Government-wants-ban-SINGING-musicals-return-West-End-says-Lord-Lloyd-Webber.html

31488 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Carrie, 2, #804 of 847 🔗

Of course: plenty of people enjoy such musicals – a ban is the only solution!

31491 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 6, #805 of 847 🔗

Oh, tell them to go and stick their stupid faces in a faecal plume.

31504 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 2, #806 of 847 🔗

More examples that we are led by idiots!

Good grief!!!

31454 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 4, #807 of 847 🔗

Vernon Coleman at his best:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5zZwQW-wZU
Just trust me.

31456 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #808 of 847 🔗

Multi-media at its most sophisticated.

31457 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #809 of 847 🔗

Haha – I won’t be getting ‘stuffed’ either 😉 !!!

31503 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mike Smith, #810 of 847 🔗

Great stuff! 😂

31462 assoc, replying to assoc, 4, #811 of 847 🔗

HM government has abandoned its Tracing app, but rather than use the Goggle/Apple version, like many other countries, claims to be working on a hybrid version (unknown to Apple) so that it can get still get its surveillance software into the system. I assume this is Sir Humphrey’s idea, it seems far too sassy for messrs Hancock & Johnson.
I hope the Americans pull the plug on this latest piece of nastiness.

31463 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to assoc, 6, #812 of 847 🔗

This could get them sued by Google/Apple. Possibly the only time in history I’m gonna be thoroughly on the side of the tech giants.

31475 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to assoc, 5, #813 of 847 🔗

This is OUTRAGEOUS! More and more of what UK column have been saying is proving true (unfortunately..)

31500 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to assoc, 2, #814 of 847 🔗

Apple won’t stand for any “hybrid” version and to get anything onto an iPhone (well, without jailbreaking it which most folks won’t know how to do) it has to come via their App Store. It did rather amuse me when Hancock was proudly spouting about an agreement to work with Apple and Google, and then Apple announced that they haven’t heard a peep out of the U.K. government at all! I did to believe Apple more than I do the U.K. government . . .

31466 WillemKoppenhol, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 6, #815 of 847 🔗

This Sunday there was supposed to be a demonstration against Dutch corona policies. However, the mayor decided to forbid the demonstration. The organizers went to court, which upheld the ban, no demonstration therefore. So much for the idea that we still had constitutional rights in the Netherlands…

Here is a quick computer translation of an article by the NOS, in a way the Dutch BBC:

Judge maintains ban on corona protest Malieveld

The corona protest that was announced on Sunday at the Malieveld in The Hague should indeed not go ahead. The judge maintains the ban that the Haaglanden Security Region issued earlier today. The “Virus Madness” group had filed for summary proceedings.

The security region had banned the demonstration because it would endanger public health. The number of participants had risen to 10,000 after calls on social media and other protest organizations.

The judge agrees that it is not possible to keep a safe distance with so many people on the Malieveld and that this entails risks of spreading the corona-virus.

According to press judge Marjolijn Kramer, this mainly concerns the structure of the demonstration. “It’s a lot like an event and events are now banned,” she says:

(SEE VIDEO IN ORIGINAL ARTICLE)

When asked why the anti-racism demonstration on the Malieveld should go on last week, the press judge replies that “the judge has now only looked at this manifestation and that the risks are too great”.

The press judge could not say whether this ruling has consequences for events and meetings in the future. “This statement applies to this particular case.”

‘Disappointed and surprised’

Spokesperson for Virus Madness Willem Engel disagrees with the statement. “I am especially very disappointed and amazed. It is our fundamental right to demonstrate. This ban should not have happened.”

He is concerned that he has been unable to discuss alternatives with the security region. “We should have been talking about a different interpretation.”

He says that he no longer has any control over people going to The Hague on Sunday. “We can’t stop it anymore. I want to tell everyone: if you go, keep it safe and make sure it doesn’t turn violent.”

Engel says he will accept the statement, but “I cannot appeal to people not to go”. He asks if people would like to “put a bunch of flowers at every town hall everywhere on Sunday, because democracy is almost dead today”.

Sunday’s demonstration targeted the “Temporary Law COVID-19” bill, or the Corona Emergency Law. The initiators want to prevent “Dutch society from being burdened by the discipline of the one and a half meter society”, they write on their website.


Original link (Dutch): https://nos.nl/artikel/2337853-rechter-handhaaft-verbod-op-coronaprotest-malieveld.html

Like I said before: this should have been framed in some Woke/BLM terminology. They would have rather shot themselves before banning that demonstration!

Note that in the Netherlands we do not have the “2 meter” madness, but a “1,5 meter” madness.

Here is the leaflet made by the organizers:

31473 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 1, #816 of 847 🔗

This is worrying – government stifling dissent sounds like a coup to me..

31479 ▶▶ Mark, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 5, #817 of 847 🔗

The New Freedom:

Liberty suppressed on grounds of safety.

Protest against said suppression of liberty forbidden … on grounds of safety.

31490 ▶▶ annie, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 5, #818 of 847 🔗

So the famously tolerant Netherlands won’t tolerate Covid dissent.
Put their bosses in the bin along with our own.

31467 matt, replying to matt, 5, #819 of 847 🔗

Sorry – I missed who posted the link to the Atlantic article “pay attention to the shutdown skeptics” and the posts are too busy now to find it again.

I have two problems with it:
– the first is that it continues the assumption that Covid 19 is in itself bad enough that should have to concentrate all of our efforts on fighting it, absent a vaccine or a cure
– the second is: “ These facts may not be evident from the least thoughtful proponents of reopening, many of whom advance arguments that are uninformed, dismissive of experts, or callous. But the warnings of thoughtful shutdown skeptics warrant careful study, not stigma rooted in the false pretense that they don’t have any plausible concerns or value human life.” Show me, please a thoughtful, evidence based argument for lockdown? Until you can, you cannot criticise a sceptic for not being “thoughtful”.

31480 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to matt, #820 of 847 🔗

You mean this link by Tom Blackburn? https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/05/take-shutdown-skeptics-seriously/611419/

“<Ctrl> F” will let you search for stuff. Doesn’t matter how big the comments section gets. As long they’re all loaded it’ll find it.

31477 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 9, #821 of 847 🔗

You know the way media types at the BBC, Sky and ITV like to “make connections”. Wasn’t it odd that none of them made the connection between Vera Lynn’s passing and what she might have sadly witnessed in her last few weeks: a nation gripped by fear, locked in their homes as if by an occupying power, a statue of Winston Churchill being defaced by Far Left Fascist thugs, and the Cenotaph being defiled, with a Far Left Fascist thug setting light to the Union flag.

31487 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to OKUK, 16, #822 of 847 🔗

Just heard there will be clapping for Dame Vera Lynn.

Don’t know where, don’t know when.

31529 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sarigan, #823 of 847 🔗

Sky News made it sound like she had been a leading member of Antifa – “the voice of a generation that defeated fascism and established the NHS” ! So you never know, she might be so honoured, N Korean style.

31494 Mark, replying to Mark, 3, #824 of 847 🔗

Is this “Sir David King” really so stupid that he thinks the appropriate level of alert is one described as where there is “a high or rising level of transmission”, or is just lying?

I suppose he could be speaking English as a second language and just be misunderstanding terms like “high” and “rising”. but he would probably have to be profoundly stupid to be doping that as well.

What exactly are we handing out knighthoods for these days?


‘Very strange decision’ to lower UK’s alert system
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-asia-53103438

Earlier, the UK’s chief medical advisers downgraded the country’s alert level from four to three. (You can read more on what that means here).

But Sir David King – who chairs an independent group of scientists to rival the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) – has said lowering the level was “a very strange decision to make at this point in time”.

He told Channel 4 News: “The message that goes across when we reduce from four to three in this way is we seem to be winning the battle but the number of cases per day is still very high for the whole of England.”

He was asked whether he thought the science was being massaged to follow the politics. Sir David replied: “I very much fear that is the case. I think that we know the scientists were resisting the change of the alert number from four to three before and the politicians were pushing very hard for that to happen.

“I’m really questioning whether we’ve been following the science from the very beginning.”

The government has repeatedly said its response to the pandemic would be led by scientific advice and evidence .”

31497 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mark, 4, #825 of 847 🔗

“The government has repeatedly said its response to the pandemic would be led by scientific advice and evidence.”

It is, just not his.

31499 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mark, 2, #826 of 847 🔗

We need EBSAGE to be created – a non political evidence based science advisory group

31502 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 3, #827 of 847 🔗

He is pushing an agenda. He was CSA during the Blair years, at the time when the ICL model was rolled out in the Foot & Mouth fiasco. Need I say more?

31506 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, 1, #828 of 847 🔗

I had such high hopes for Independent SAGE when they first announced its creation. But nope, it’s just an even more extreme version of normal SAGE…

31508 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #829 of 847 🔗

They are nearly all Marxists as far as I recall from Guido’s excellent analysis a while ago

31514 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, #830 of 847 🔗

*Small* positive – possibly – is that Mason Mills has posted this evening with frustration re Sadiq Khan and the situation in London…. wonder if action might be on the way?

31495 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #831 of 847 🔗

There have been 3 famous person deaths reported by the media over the last few days, and covid wasn’t mentioned once. Maybe pressure from the families, or maybe the new message. Is project fear coming to an end?

31511 ▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, #832 of 847 🔗

The lie would be too blatant even for them?

31512 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, #833 of 847 🔗

Vera Lynn – who were the other two?

31522 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, #834 of 847 🔗

The snooker fella Thorn, and Bilbo baggins

31510 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #836 of 847 🔗

I tried to start a petition to get loos reopened, but it vanished without trace, Pity.

31527 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 2, #837 of 847 🔗

Of all the MSM TV journalists I would say that Deborah Cohen has been one of the few who has actually produced some non-hysterical science-based reports – and on Newsnight as well! Tonight she is debunking the science claims of the 2M distance. The Lancet seems to have published some bad science. They have a long history of this.

Anyway, it’s clear the tide has turned on the 2 metre social distancing rule and no one is now going to back it.

A small victory but one which will encourage millions to consider whether other Government policies based on “following the science” are equally suspect.


31532 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to OKUK, #838 of 847 🔗

I do wonder how serious a journal one would regard Lancet as these days, I got the impression it was a more of a political rag for medical doctors as opposed to series scientists, either basic or clinical. It is supposed to be peer reviewed, Ferguson likes to publish in there…..

31539 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to coalencanth12, 1, #839 of 847 🔗

Of course, but the BBC are happy to quote it in reverent tones when it suits them.

31553 ▶▶▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to OKUK, #840 of 847 🔗

Agreed – there are far better journals out there but then they wouldn’t know that…..!!

31528 coalencanth12, replying to coalencanth12, #841 of 847 🔗

Thought for the day (and I have had a few glasses of Claret) –

If we could get some negative energy and I could build some form of time machine or wormhole into the past, which Prime Minister or Sovereign to lead the country through this chaos? Or a dream cabinet?

In my view, we would have to get Mrs T, much as that pains me…..

31535 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to coalencanth12, 1, #842 of 847 🔗

David Lloyd George, against conventional opinion, was a great critic of the senseless mass- slaughter frontal assaults favoured by Douglas Haig in WW1 and probably saved hundreds of thousands of young men’s lives once he got his hands on power be exerting a restraining influence.

Sounds like a good man for the job of stopping the madness of lockdown misery with its millions of collateral casualities.

31536 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, #843 of 847 🔗

be = by

31550 ▶▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to OKUK, #844 of 847 🔗

Good call! Incidentally, Welsh speaker, as am I.

31695 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, #845 of 847 🔗

There’s a big flaw in that plan. It’ll come to me in a minute…

31562 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to coalencanth12, #846 of 847 🔗

Wellington. Allegedly good at putting the boot in …

31540 WillemKoppenhol, 5, #847 of 847 🔗

Quick computer translation of Dutch state tv/radio news article on Dutch citizens who have signed a petition against the “corona emergency law”. Just like in the UK the Dutch government doesn’t want to admit it panicked and enacted the stupidest policy in peace time, so it goes on creating new rules/regulations as if it was all a good idea from the beginning.

More than a quarter of a million signatories for a petition against the corona emergency law

A growing group of citizens is concerned about the cabinet’s corona emergency law. The petition ‘No to the emergency law’ has been digitally signed more than 250,000 times since the beginning of this month. The initiators want to hand over the petition to the Chamber Committee for Justice and Security next Tuesday.

The Coronas Emergency Act must replace the many emergency ordinances that exist today. The emergency ordinances can continue to enforce corona measures, but those regulations are creating an administrative chaotic situation, and they will expire soon.

Many organizations and institutions have already criticized the bill in recent weeks. The signatories of the petition are also very critical of the proposed law, which they believe is undemocratic. “The urgent law violates our basic rights, our privacy, our freedom and our human rights,” write the initiators. They request representatives of parliament to reject or immediately undo the urgent law if the law has already entered into force.

Freedoms subordinated
The Council of State is also said to have questions about the emergency law. According to sources from The Hague, the Council advised the cabinet to amend the bill before it goes to the House of Representatives. The Council is particularly opposed to the risk that freedoms are too easily subordinated to the interests of public health.

In a letter to the House of Representatives, Deputy Prime Minister Hugo de Jonge writes today that the intended date on which the law should take effect, July 1, is not being met. According to him, careful treatment in the House of Representatives and the Senate requires more time and it is not good to “discuss it before the summer”.

He added that there are many misunderstandings about the proposal.

Original article (in Dutch): https://nos.nl/artikel/2337852-al-ruim-kwart-miljoen-ondertekenaars-voor-petitie-tegen-coronaspoedwet.html

Of course, unlike the minister said there are not many “misunderstandings” about the proposal, as a matter of fact there are none. There is however a lot of criticism. No really, a LOT (also from state TV, computer translation):

New corona law full of prohibitions is criticized from all sides

On July 1, the Temporary Measures Act covid-19, also known as the corona law, must take effect. But few people think that it works. There is a lot of criticism, and Minister De Jonge has to adapt his texts to prevent the House of Representatives and the Senate from firing the law.

The government wants to lay down temporary emergency regulations in law that have been issued in recent months. There also needs to be a better legal basis for future measures, for example in the case of a second contagion wave.

In emergency regulations, such as the closure of the catering industry and gyms, citizens do not have a say in advance through the city council or the House of Representatives. Nor can citizens challenge such a regulation in court.

Unwanted situation
The government considers this an undesirable situation. The law must replace the collection of emergency ordinances after approval by the House of Representatives and the Senate.

For example, the law states that it is forbidden not to keep a safe distance from others on the street (the 1.5 meter is not literally in it), that it is forbidden to be in certain public places, that it is prohibited to hold an event organize, that the cabinet can make hygiene measures compulsory and that the cabinet may prohibit certain professional activities.

The cabinet can also issue new ministerial regulations by law.

Random
But critics say the law goes too far.

The Dutch Bar Association says that the law may violate the fundamental rights of citizens. The order is also concerned that arbitrary enforcement and the imposition of fines may occur because rules are not clear enough.

Furthermore, the Cabinet can extend the law, so that the ‘temporality’ in fact amounts to an indefinite period. And that is too long for a law that can violate certain fundamental rights, the order says.

In shock
Professor of constitutional law Voermans says he is shocked by the law. “He may extradite us for a long time to government by ministerial decrees,” he says.

Voermans says that the law allows the Council of Ministers to take far-reaching decisions behind closed doors about what is and is not allowed. They can seriously limit the rights and fundamental rights of citizens, without the House of Representatives having any influence on this beforehand.

Voermans: “That does not fit in a democratic constitutional state, and that is also diametrically opposed to our constitutional system and the values ​​and principles that are embedded in that system.”

Not democratic
Mayors and councilors are also dissatisfied. The law does not take local differences into account, says the VNG. And only mayors can do something against a ministerial regulation if they disagree.

The Dutch Association for Councilors is therefore left out of the picture, and that is bad for the support base, the association warns. “The temporary law puts more than 8,500 councilors against the law, instead of being ambassadors for the various temporary measures.”

Overtime
In the meantime, the Council of State is waiting for the legal text to be able to advise the cabinet.

Normally, the council has two months for legal advice. In the meantime, emergency laws have started to rain in connection with the corona crisis and everything has to be done faster. “There are overtime hours here,” said a spokesman. “But next week or the following week should work.”

What the Council of State thinks about it is already stated in a kind of preliminary advice. The government must find a good balance between intervening in citizens’ fundamental rights and protecting public health, the advice is.

And the House of Representatives must be able to check everything. The lack of democratic control over emergency regulations is acceptable at the beginning of a crisis, but not for the longer term, says the State Council.

Not for the summer holidays
The Ministry of Health says to listen carefully to the criticism and to send the amended text to the Council of State today or tomorrow. He will then give advice next week or the week after. Then the House of Representatives and the Senate will debate it.

Opposition MPs have already criticized the government’s haste, but say they should not be rushed.

“It is about a law that allows you to see your family, about the use of data, fines and ministers who can make decisions at their discretion,” says PvdA MP Kuiken. “That is very fundamental and must be done carefully.”

Original link in Dutch: https://nos.nl/artikel/2336696-nieuwe-coronawet-vol-verboden-krijgt-van-alle-kanten-kritiek.html

But again, incompetency breads incompetency, and so the cabinet blunders into the next level of stupidity: trying to defend a stupid idea through stupid means. Another computer translation from the original:

De Jonge: corona law gives more powers to Parliament

The Corona Pact Act is not intended to give the cabinet more leeway, but rather to give more powers to the House of Representatives and restore normal administrative relations.

Deputy Prime Minister De Jonge said this in response to criticism from many organizations and institutions about the Cabinet’s plan to come up with an emergency law that will replace many emergency regulations. On the basis of those regulations, various measures have been taken to prevent the further spread of the coronavirus.

Extend measures
Much of the criticism is that the new law would give the cabinet too much power to take decisions without parliamentary involvement. Moreover, it would become too easy for the cabinet to extend measures. Today it leaked that, according to the Council of State, the proposal also needs to be adjusted.

This morning, De Jonge reported to the House that the law will not enter into force on 1 July, as previously intended. According to him, careful treatment in the House of Representatives and the Senate requires more time.

Misunderstandings
De Jonge said after the Council of Ministers that if there is so much discussion about a law, it is not good to “do it just before the summer”.

He added that there are many misunderstandings about the proposal:
(VIDEO HERE IN ORIGINAL PAGE)

He emphasized that, for example, now the meter and a half are maintained on the basis of a regulation, but that you have to arrange this in a different legal way for the longer term. According to the Deputy Prime Minister, it is the intention that the Cabinet now proposes such a measure and that the House can then agree to it.

De Jonge said that the new law will be different from the first concept: “I think that when you see the final proposal and you study it well, you think it is sensible.”

Original link: https://nos.nl/artikel/2337828-de-jonge-coronawet-geeft-meer-bevoegdheden-aan-kamer.html

And that’s just one day of corona incompetency. You can imagine the rest of the week.

Oh, and I haven’t even started on the news regarding unemployment and bankruptcies. Although those numbers are expected to go up a few months from now, so whatever we have seen so far is pretty much nothing yet…

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171kh148513, 6, 1, 0, 8, 1, 0, 31, 8, 5, 12, 5, 8, 0, 3, 4, 12, 11, 3, 2, 0, 2, 5, 0, 1, 8, 5, 0, 13, 4
122Scotty8776, 8, 15, 15, 8
119Mark5, 7, 7, 5, 9, 0, 2, 4, 5, 1, 11, 4, 3, 13, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 8, 6, 0, 1, 7, 3, 6, 0, 5, 3
104Poppy7, 25, 23, 6, 2, 2, 28, 11
104CarrieAH4, 23, 3, 4, 14, 26, 10, 7, 3, 8, 0, 0, 2
103Bart Simpson11, 3, 4, 1, 14, 5, 4, 1, 4, 1, 1, 6, 1, 1, 7, 1, 7, 1, 2, 0, 5, 3, 0, 5, 9, 0, 0, 0, 3, 1, 3, 6, 2, 0
83Nic3, 5, 9, 7, 1, 9, 5, 14, 7, 0, 1, 0, 12, 3, 5, 2
81Carrie0, 2, 3, 7, 3, 2, 2, 1, 16, 2, 3, 2, 2, 4, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 3, 3, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 3, 2, 5, 1, 0, 0
78Paul31, 8, 29, 5, 2, 2, 1
78Sarigan1, 5, 2, 4, 16, 1, 1, 5, 0, 6, 20, 0, 0, 1, 0, 16
78Nick Rose26, 19, 0, 1, 10, 1, 1, 4, 6, 0, 0, 2, 2, 3, 0, 3, 0
77matt25, 9, 4, 5, 6, 1, 1, 3, 6, 3, 0, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 5
76Julian2, 4, 3, 5, 2, 2, 0, 2, 1, 5, 5, 0, 3, 1, 0, 2, 4, 6, 25, 3, 1, 0
75Bella11, 3, 6, 6, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 10, 3, 3, 1, 0, 1, 3, 7, 2, 1, 4, 7, 1, 2
67Peter Thompson5, 359
66Victoria24, 8, 9, 1, 3, 1, 3, 6, 2, 3, 0, 0, 6
64Moomin1, 0, 40, 18, 1, 2, 2
58OKUK5, 3, 10, 7, 10, 1, 1, 4, 4, 9, 0, 2, 1, 1, 0
55A. Contrarian3, 15, 0, 15, 12, 9, 1
55SayNoToSuing0, 8, 1, 7, 9, 0, 12, 18
52Stephen McMurray13, 17, 9, 13
52Dave #KBF80, 1, 1, 1, 3, 0, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 1, 8, 6
51Hubes30, 21
49Tyneside Tigress8, 12, 7, 9, 6, 0, 2, 0, 1, 3, 1
49Tom Blackburn118, 11, 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1, 5, 0, 4
48JohnB32, 2, 2, 18, 0, 0, 3, 0, 3, 2, 2, 1, 10, 0, 0
46WillemKoppenhol55, 0, 0, 30, 0, 6
46Awkward Git0, 2, 1, 1, 3, 0, 2, 16, 4, 17
46T. Prince96, 9, 0, 1, 0, 4, 3, 0, 5, 1, 2, 3, 0, 3
44TheBluePill41, 3
41Nobody20201120, 1, 3, 5, 1
41Saved To Death1, 0, 2, 3, 1, 1, 1, 3, 13, 7, 6, 3
40RDawg8, 32
40mjr0, 2, 17, 0, 2, 12, 2, 5
38smileymiley12, 4, 9, 4, 8, 1
38Jonathan Castro5, 3, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 14, 0, 6, 2, 4
37Steve Hayes30, 7, 0
36Major Panic41, 1, 6, 1, 2, 1, 0, 1, 6, 3, 0, 2, 1, 4, 2, 1, 0
35Farinances1, 17, 10, 1, 6
34Simon Dutton11, 2, 11, 10, 0
33Carausius30, 3
32Mark H3, 2, 27
32Bella Donna21, 12, 1, 4, 11, 1
31MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG04, 1, 3, 6, 3, 1, 0, 1, 3, 2, 7
31Cheezilla1, 09, 4, 3, 3, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0
30AN other lockdown sceptic30
30Lms2332, 19, 3, 2, 1
30IanE2, 4, 3, 0, 0, 1, 6, 3, 1, 1, 0, 1, 4, 2, 0, 2
29Tenchy1, 21, 5, 1, 0, 1
28TyLean2, 0, 9, 1, 3, 13
28guy1536, 1, 2, 4, 1, 2, 1, 11
26Chris John19, 7
26paulito4, 1, 2, 4, 4, 5, 3, 3
24Polemon216, 8
23ianric8, 15
22Tim Bidie17, 5
21Biker21
20Margaret20
18Edgar Friendly4, 5, 0, 1, 3, 5
17ambwozere9, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1
16GetaGrip16
16Hammer Onats16
16Sceptique11, 3, 2
15sunchap15
15Anon9, 6
14Athanasius5, 9
13sam310
13Schrodinger1, 12
12Keen Cook12
12Lena12
11Andy Riley11
11FiFiTrixabelle11
11Suitejb11
11Dave Tee9, 2
11Winston Smith2, 1, 1, 0, 0, 7, 0
10Andy10
10Cristi.Neagu10
9rodmclaughlin9
9The Spingler4, 1, 1, 2, 1
9John P0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 0, 1, 0, 1, 4, 0, 0
8andrew_1, 7
8Marion5, 0, 3, 0, 0
7arfurmo7
7Guirme7
7Laura7
7HawkAnalyst0, 5, 2
7stevie1190, 6, 1
7TJN2, 1, 1, 3
6Alice6
6GetAGrip6
6Jeremy Enns6
6PD6
6WhyNow6
6Mike Smith4, 2, 0
5Anonymous5
5Cbird5
5Evelyn5
5scepticalsue5
5bluemoon3, 2
4assoc4
4Ian4
4Locked down and out4
4mhcp4
4Shep1, 3
4steve3, 1
4Melangell0, 0, 1, 0, 3, 0
3Hoppy Uniatz3
3LyndsayHopkins3
3Fiat21
2BTLnewbie2
2Ewan Duffy2
2Gracie2
2Strange Days2
2Snake Oil Pussy1, 1
1DavidC1
1Digital Nomad1
1Edna1
1Emma1
1Felice1
1Gossamer1
1ikaraki1
1Julian S1
1Kath Andrews1
1OpenYourEyes1
1PedroF1
1Toby Pierides1
0DoesDimSyniad0
0EmbraFlaneur0
0HaylingDave0
0Little Red Hen0
0LuluJo0
0Robert West0
0Skippy0
0Steve0
0Theygorightgoleft0
0coalencanth120, 0, 0, 0

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