2020-06-30

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/06/30/latest-news-64/
Published2020-06-30T18:00:32
Last updated2020-06-30T20:59:25
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:03
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38307 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 32, #1 of 1687 🔗

I had a dream

So, I caught coronavirus. I was whisked away into hospital where, somehow, they found out that I had never once clapped our ‘NHS heroes’. Accordingly, I was treated even worse than normal for a person my age, and within a few hours I was dead!

Now you understand that I am a lockdown sceptic, but that scepticism is as nothing compared to my disbelief in the tenets of religion. The word ‘atheist’ just does not do it justice. So you can understand my amazement when, after my ‘passing’, I found myself in a queue, even longer than that at my local Asda, outside the pearly gates of heaven! There was no social distancing and nobody wore masks, but hey I suppose you can’t really die twice, so what does it matter?

Eventually I reached the head of the queue and St. Peter read out from a long ‘charge sheet’ of the many sins I had committed during my life. There were so many I didn’t even remember most of them. I could rapidly see how this was going to go, and I didn’t like it. I hate the heat so much that during the ‘beach protest’ last week, I spent nearly all day and half the night behind closed curtains with a desk fan blowing in my face, and only ventured outside after dark when it was cooler. The fires of hell are really not for me.

At the end of my indictment, Peter asked if I had anything to say in my defence. In my state of perturbation the only thing I could think of was that time I was out for a walk in the country (remember when we could do that?) and found a lamb with its head stuck in a fence, and managed to free it. Neither the lamb not St. Peter were particularly impressed.

My case was passed on for judgement to you know who. A mist shimmered behind St. Peter, and God appeared mystically. Now God is all knowing and all seeing, so instantly knew my thoughts, and spoke thus: “Come on now, I created the the heaven and earth, all the fishes in the sea and all the birds and beasts of the land in seven days. You didn’t think that with their multitasking skills a man could accomplish that did you?” God was a woman!

I felt I had committed yet another sin, and the flames of hell rose ever higher toward me.

“Bill” she began again, “I sentence you to” but then she broke off. “Wait a minute” said God, “It says here that in later life you became a lockdown sceptic and opposed all the nauseating safety crap dictated by your corrupt, ignorant and manipulative government. Is that so?”. “That is so your majesty” I replied.

“In that case I will overlook your previous misdemeanours and admit you to heaven”.

I remembered my BLM indoctrination classes, got down on one knee and gave thanks for my deliverance.

So I was handed a harp (don’t know why, I can’t play one, but I suppose I have plenty of time to learn) directed to a nearby cloud, and settled in to heaven; and what a place it is. Did you know there is 5g internet on every cloud? All free, and none of it controlled by Microsoft, Amazon, Google or Apple. The internet is a big thing up there, God even has her own Facebook page, you can check it out at:

#itsyourshitdontblameme – quite revealing.

Later on I was introduced to Jesus and there is another surprise. JC is a black dude with an overwhelming passion for Tamla Motown music. He wanted me to listen to his new remix of the old Four Tops hit ‘If I were a carpenter’. It went something like this:

If I’d stayed a carpenter
And not been a saviour
Would I be crucified anyway
Or lived to old age yeah.

Ok it is not high art and his voice is nothing like as good as Levi Stubbs, but what do you say to the Son of God? I smiled beningly, gave him a high five, and as he walked away he turned and said “It’s not easy rhyming with saviour you know”

So that was it, and if you believe in the power of dreams then you have to believe, fellow lockdown sceptics, that although it has been a familiar battle cry since the dawn of warfare, in this instance God is on our side.

She really is.

NB Other religions are available, but don’t always figure in my dreams, sorry.

40042 ▶▶ sylvia, replying to Old Bill, #2 of 1687 🔗

love your dream. yup got it in one, we are not suppose to follow or obay Satan’s crap, brought on by men in power after raping children then eating them…you go on and rebel all you have to and God will save you..Blessings

38308 matt, replying to matt, 86, #3 of 1687 🔗

Toby – thank you for the update and for the robust comments on Leicester. I know you read the comments (though god knows how you find time). The Leicester lockdown must not stand. This is a disgrace. This is such an obvious and manufactured lie that I cannot even begin to imagine what kind of fools the government take us for, that they think we’re going to swallow it.

Please do anything you can to publicise this and if there’s anything we, or I, can do, please let us know.

38314 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to matt, 29, #4 of 1687 🔗

Absolutely right. It can’t be anything but criminal what this government is imposing on the good people of Leicester. Surely we have some readers on here from there? What can they think of this nonsense? Meanwhile, the BBC continues to try and maintain the fear in the rest of us. This, earlier today:

“Flu virus with ‘Pandemic Potential’ found in China” The circus continues….

38327 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to T. Prince, 18, #5 of 1687 🔗

Local lockdowns would be harsh, and potentially pointless, penalties

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/29/local-lockdowns-would-harsh-potentially-pointless-penalties/

……………

Local lockdowns have become the latest concept in the lexicon of Covid 19. The thinking goes that as the number of cases nationally declines, eruptions of the disease are still like to occur here and there, and the government should clamp down on them by sending individual villages, towns or cities back into the stringent restrictions which existed everywhere in April.

It might sound a ‘smart’approach – in the jargon of public policy – but it threatens further damage to the economy in the places which can least afford it.
In March and April, the epicentre of Covid 19 was London. Cases there then declined sharply but rose elsewhere as the epidemic rippled out of the capital. It is rather like our mad house price booms, which always start in London and then spread out to infect the rest of the country.

…………………

It isn’t hard to imagine what will happen if we have individual towns and cities ordered back into lockdown: short of roadblocks on every entry and exit point, people are going to head out elsewhere for their shopping and fun. Either that or these towns are going to fall victim to the growing underground economy of illegal raves and drug dealers.

………………………

38387 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to HawkAnalyst, 15, #6 of 1687 🔗

Surely as sites like this continue to expose the myth and efficacy of lockdowns, people will be less inclined to return to confinement. Surely the government know this yet carry on regardless. What the h*ll is going on?

38390 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to T. Prince, 15, #7 of 1687 🔗

Sadly I think people are still compliant.

38399 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, 8, #8 of 1687 🔗

You’d have hoped they would have seen that lockdowns are pointless, when there were no spikes after the BLM protests..

38475 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 10, #9 of 1687 🔗

Not pointless if they are for political reasons and coercion.

38551 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #10 of 1687 🔗

The odd thing, though, is that the Left-wing Labour MP is egging on the Tories to be tougher in her own backyard. One struggles to see the strategy here.

38560 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to grammarschoolman, 2, #11 of 1687 🔗

Labour has thoroughly bought into the lockdown, except that they think it should have been imposed sooner and that we’re coming out of it too fast. And they would like to remind everyone that there were operational problems with PPE and testing.

Add to that the fact that Leicester is among the most ethnically diverse cities in the country and that we all know that the virus is racist, thanks to Boris.

Of course she supports it. She thinks the national lockdown should never have been relaxed in the first place.

38614 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to grammarschoolman, #12 of 1687 🔗

Backstabbing.
Common in politics and sod the poor devils who voted for you to look after their best interests.

39519 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ A leaf, replying to Carrie, #13 of 1687 🔗

According to the media there are horrible spikes all around usa actually

38572 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bella, 2, #14 of 1687 🔗

They are. And suitably terrified. People I know are still convinced the virus is everywhere and rampant.

40069 ▶▶▶▶ sylvia, replying to HawkAnalyst, #15 of 1687 🔗

funny how it all happened during the flu/cold season… 😕 😉 😂 😂 😂 💖 coronviriouse derives from the word Coryza Greek/Latin…meaning mucous… common cold/flu…do the research…. this was established back in 1635.

38316 ▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to matt, 13, #16 of 1687 🔗

Again, What Were the Benefits of Locking Down?

https://www.aier.org/article/again-what-were-the-benefits-of-locking-down/

With the evidence coming in that the lockdowns were neither economically nor medically effective, it is going to be increasingly difficult for lockdown partisans to marshal the evidence to convince the public that isolating people, destroying businesses, and destroying social institutions was worth it.

38320 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #17 of 1687 🔗

We know that and some with the necessary expertise know that but how do we get out of this inertia?

38573 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #18 of 1687 🔗

The evidence might be available, but not much of its making its way into the mainstream narrative.

38324 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, 1, #19 of 1687 🔗

Agree 100%. Couldn’t feel more strongly on this one.

38333 ▶▶ Thomas Pelham, replying to matt, 5, #20 of 1687 🔗

If it’s the case (and it is) that relaxing the lockdown thus far hasn’t seen huge rises in cases anywhere else, except Leicester, isn’t it more likely that there is something particular about Leicester that warrants looking at, rather than slapping it back into lockdown rather lazily.

If a public health measure has little effect when being lifted (as opening shops and schools have both shown) surely it’s likely that it won’t have any effect being reimposed. Or if you do the same thing in two places with two different results it’s likely that the thing isn’t having the effect you think it is.

Leicester is substantially less hard hit than London thus far, I’d expect cases to grow until saturation is hit at about 0.05% death rate.

38363 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Thomas Pelham, 6, #21 of 1687 🔗

If it were the case that Leicester were showing an exceptionally high infection rate without an obviously engineered testing programme, I would completely agree with you.

38402 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 1, #22 of 1687 🔗

If anywhere should be experiencing a “second wave” it’s London but all seems pretty hunky dory there, despite the recent mass-gatherings.

Could Leicester be another smokescreen?

Will Doncaster be next – keeping the focus further North – and in predominantly Labour seats:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/29/36-cities-counties-covid-19-cases-rising-risking-local-lockdowns/

38411 ▶▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #23 of 1687 🔗

The local Labour MP, Claudia Webbe, was positively demanding a new lockdown this morning. I hope she really gets in the neck when it becomes clear that it’s finally killed off all the businesses in Leicester that might otherwise have survived.

38480 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to grammarschoolman, 6, #24 of 1687 🔗

I’d noticed that. I think she’s really backstabbing the mayor. What a bitch!

38630 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #25 of 1687 🔗

Seems the mayor has caved and welcomed the measures because they go further than the current restrictions! Only hope is that the good folks of Leicester kick him out and stand their ground. Alas I doubt neither will be the case.

38646 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Rick, 4, #26 of 1687 🔗

The government have dirt on the mayor because he broke the original lockdown..

38624 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to grammarschoolman, 9, #27 of 1687 🔗

We need to ask what have those businesses and organisations done about it themselves? Almost every business class has a trade body with thousands of members. All the parents with children going uneducated, again thousands in Leicester alone. Almost nothing is the unfortunate answer. Unless people wake up to this farce they will suffer the consequences of their own inertia. I am at the point of no longer trying to convince the muzzlers of their stupidity but to suggest when things start to go wrong and they get fired or lose their house that they are in no position to protest. Sad but true. The victims are those that battled for change and where shot down by the panic stricken masses.

38724 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ tim5165, replying to grammarschoolman, -2, #28 of 1687 🔗

Inappropriate! When you say “gets in the neck” I sincerely hope you are not suggesting that she should be unlawfully stabbed by an illegal immigrant (Bolton, Reading, Glasgow, somewhere else).

38422 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #29 of 1687 🔗

London bears watching. We’re a city of 9 million people and we live on top of one another.

On the one hand, if the projection of 15-20% as herd immunity is correct, then London is there, or so nearly as makes no odds. So what happens next in London will be interesting.

On the other hand, significant chunks of normal have disappeared – most of the employment is service sector, with no need to go to an office and much of the office real estate has become unusable because its high rise, not to mention the public transport issues. People aren’t moving around London the way they used to.

I’ve seen Hackney on a list of potentials for the next example to be made, by the way. Speculation, I’m sure.

38540 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #30 of 1687 🔗

Another Labour stronghold. Hmmmm.

38546 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Cheezilla, #31 of 1687 🔗

Oh God. I live in a London Labour constituency…

38619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to grammarschoolman, #32 of 1687 🔗

Maybe lucky for you, it’s not Diane Abbot’s.

38785 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #33 of 1687 🔗

Diiiiiiiiiiiiiaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnn ABBOT!

39162 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Cheezilla, #34 of 1687 🔗

Not her. Somebody who stays well below the radar, thank goodness.

39802 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, #35 of 1687 🔗

Locking down selected London boroughs would take this to new levels of the absurd.

40180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, #36 of 1687 🔗

It would be meaningless. Takes me about ten minutes to get to three neighbouring boroughs. Unless they are going to set up border posts on all of the hundreds of connecting roads, paths and alleyways it would be a futile gesture. People will simply go do their supermarket shopping or visit pubs in neighbouring boroughs.

38471 ▶▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #37 of 1687 🔗

Further to my reply below, it could be rather a good wheeze to keep fooling opposition MPs into demanding new lockdowns that will destroy the economies of their constituencies. Let’s go for Ed Miliband’s place next.

38531 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Thomas Pelham, 9, #38 of 1687 🔗

They only pretended to lift lockdown 15 days ago. Why did they suddenly decide to do extra testing in Leicester about 10 days ago? Why wouldn’t they keep the mayor in the loop?

All this has clearly been fabricated for political means and to send a powerful message to the rest of the country.

38642 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #39 of 1687 🔗

Because they need to demonstrate at Simon Dolan’s judicial review that lockdowns are justified?

38360 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, 36, #40 of 1687 🔗

I agree that Toby’s analysis of the dodgy figures is good and that it is disgraceful what is being done to Leicester but I’m not sure that his rhetorical approach to analysis cuts it on this occasion.

What on earth does the Government think it’s doing? What possible reason is there for reimposing a full lockdown on Leicester? In an act of sheer lunacy etc

“Oh why oh why?” Well, I’ve not exactly been scratching my head as to why the Government would start imposing selective lock-downs, beginning with a Labour-controlled city with a large South-Asian-origin population.

Earlier, along with others, I posted that it was obvious that they were sending all of us a message by inventing a ‘spike’, ‘surge’, whatever in poor old Leicester and getting it faithfully whipped-up by their paid-off media – ‘The first local lockdown’. Of coure, now everyone’s shitting themselves that their town/city will be next.

Toby’s post almost suggests that this is just silly old Boris and Handjob losing the plot again. Disgraceful, definitely but, really, nothing to see here.

I’m sorry Matt (and Toby) but the cock-up/panic/incompetence theory holds less and less water every day. They know bloody well what they are doing and they are rubbing all our noses in it. What/who is really behind all this is still conjecture. I would really welcome Toby’s serious thoughts on this because there’s so much at stake.

I would say that the idea that the Leicester lockdown may not be legally enforceable is intriguing. Would anyone be able to take it up though or are they just going to get away with it knowing that the majority of the country will be compliant with whatever is thrown at them?

38367 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 15, #41 of 1687 🔗

I’ve adapted my weakness and incompetence theory and I’m now adding craven cowardice and desperate self-justification. The Leicester lockdown exists to (speciously) show that the government has a grip on where infections are happening in the country and to prove that lockdown was right.

38375 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, 10, #42 of 1687 🔗

I agree with all that, Matt, but I don’t believe it goes far enough. The same policies have been replicated in too many countries and states for it to be coincidental.

38379 ▶▶▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #43 of 1687 🔗

Maybe, but stupidity is contagious. And these politicians are constantly looking at each other: what is he doing, should I do that too, nah, I shouldn’t, hm, well, hang on, is he going into lock down, is that lock down, oh my god, lock down, we are going into lock down now!

38388 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 4, #44 of 1687 🔗

Exactly. Look at the response to Sweden not doing so.

39744 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to grammarschoolman, #45 of 1687 🔗

Sweden is a “difficult” case in that they didn’t do so well either when it comes to COVID-19 deaths, they are also pretty much in the top 10 (per million inhabitants) worldwide, just like many lockdown nations. But yes, at least they did not chose a path which essentially was the socio-economic version of “scorched earth” tactics.

If you want to see some truly successful countries have a look at Japan, South Korea and even more so Taiwan. No lockdowns as in: the government orders/forces you to stay home, or else you can/will get a fine/punishment. They did do other things (but different things, these are not identical countries of course) and if the UK had done whatever it is they have done, the UK would now be so much better off.

As a matter of fact, the UK would now have had resp. 543, 407 or (and this one is truly utterly amazing but oh so very real) 20 deaths. TWENTY deaths for the whole of the UK if the UK had done as Taiwan .

Or the other way around: if Taiwan had followed the British “experts” in the UK they would now have had a total of 15.399 deaths… And they have 7.

(I did the math for my country, the Netherlands, first. Turns out the Dutch “experts” were a “mere” 1200x more deadly than the Taiwanese experts, and 60x more deadly than Korean experts.)

Yes, I know, you can’t compare easily because [etc etc differences bla bla nuanced quack quack], but actually, you can. And we should. Because the difference is criminal!

39808 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WillemKoppenhol, #46 of 1687 🔗

All-cause mortality in Sweden this year is within normal parameters. They could have done better with care homes. The Asian countries you mention are interesting and seem anomalous. Genetics may play a part. Or climate. In no country has the effect of the virus been such that it justified the actions taken by many countries. While it’s obviously desirable to take proportionate actions that reduce suffering, I think we need to get away from the idea that the aim of eradicating the virus or reducing deaths to zero is achievable or desirable, at all costs.

38410 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 1, #47 of 1687 🔗

As with Matt’s views, I agree that this is definitely part of what’s going on but not all of it. I hope that I’m wrong (it wouldn’t be the first time!)

39244 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #48 of 1687 🔗

Local lockdowns were mooted by the unexperts & government puppets at the time of putting the nation under house arrest in late March. It was refered to as switching areas off and on.

Pretty brutal really, never one to wish ill health on anyone but I suspect some of the unexperts might be haunted in years to come by their actions now. No matter, it is all being done in a cold calculated manner.

38378 ▶▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to matt, 2, #49 of 1687 🔗

I am pretty much with you on this one: it is just another incompetent way of incompetent people trying to avoid the (inevitable) moment their incompetence will be found out by all.

The one part that always still surprises me even though I have often personally observed this behaviour of postponing the inevitable among senior civil servants and politicians how long it always takes. You’d think “well, just a couple of months” but it is always “estimated time times 2 or 3”, meaning the damage will be so much larger every time this happens than you would have estimated originally.

38548 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 1, #50 of 1687 🔗

I think you overlook how ruthless and callous they are, weak or otherwise.

38564 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #51 of 1687 🔗

Oh, I don’t. They’re ruthless, calculating bastards as it turns out.

38465 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 36, #52 of 1687 🔗

PEOPLE OF LEICESTER

REBEL! !

They can’t arrest you all…..

And we need you to set an example!
Show the government people will not accept more lockdown. Please.
Do it for us?

38499 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Farinances, 13, #53 of 1687 🔗

What kind of ‘person’ says ‘awwww bless’? I’d stop wearing that muzzle if I were you, you’re depriving yourself of oxygen (though I do think you probably get off on that)

38510 ▶▶▶ Gary, replying to Farinances, 14, #54 of 1687 🔗

I think Toby said we’d had several milion unique page views, including over 300K on one specific day.

38552 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gary, 7, #55 of 1687 🔗

Don’t feed the troll!

38554 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #56 of 1687 🔗

But we only have one troll. If we don’t fed him, he might die!

38558 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 4, #57 of 1687 🔗

Well, that might be one way to deal with it, matt

38622 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 1, #58 of 1687 🔗

Matt, you need to get out more! 😉

38649 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #59 of 1687 🔗

I USED TO BE ALLOWED TO! 😉

38647 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Farinances, 5, #60 of 1687 🔗

Fuck off you twat

38688 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 2, #61 of 1687 🔗

Well you’re here, aren’t you?

38787 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Farinances, 6, #62 of 1687 🔗

Trolls can live on comments boards for up to 72 hours!

38936 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Farinances, 2, #63 of 1687 🔗

Every site needs someone like GrantM. They are popping up all over the place at the moment like a bad rash.

Gives all us thinking individuals a “sheeple” to look and jeer at like the village idiot in the stocks.

Unless he’s a paid troll of some sort then it’s even better winding them up as then they are just brainwashed goons of the big boys who supply the money..

If it’s AI then the more anti-programming they read the programming breaks down if the AI programme is sufficiently advanced enough. That was interetsing reading about the Russian experiment of putting 2 AIs together and seeing what happened. Within hours they developed their own language so no-one knew what they were discussing and they had to be turned off. I think it was an American AI experiment that went awry when then AI decided man was it’s enemy and had to be destroyed, just like in Terminator, and that had to be turned off as well. Not to self – find these papers again nd read again out of interest if they are still on the internet and not “buried” or 404’d.

38771 ▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to matt, #64 of 1687 🔗

I’m starting to get the impression from reports this morning that the ‘new spikes’ and local lockdowns are actually intended to turn public opinion against BLM, as the blame is being placed firmly on the protests.

If that works, then I have to say I’m all for it, even if there’s a short-term localised economic impact.

39625 ▶▶▶ John Mirra, replying to grammarschoolman, 1, #65 of 1687 🔗

I am still not for it. Mostly because of the destruction it does to people’s lives.
Recently I discussed BLM with a black relative in his 50’s and I think his viewpoint on it was a rational one; the core message is laudable. A lot of stuff around it is clearly people taking advantage of it to push their own agendas around politics etc.
He had never had a truly bad experience with police in the UK, the worst being bad looks/attitudes when he was a teenager in the 70s (no stops or arrests though). And maintains the idea that “people were made of tougher stuff back then” citing some of the comedies at the time that explored race, presenting racists as bigoted stupid fools within them, being quite popular among his family and friends. Such shows now would be cancelled for containing such characters. We both agreed it seemed context was ignored in a lot of situations these days including incidents with police in the US. Although we both agreed they are far to quick to violence there…

A work colleague thinks that a lot of the BLM movement’s tactics are counter-productive and a sure fire way to reverse 50 years worth of progression on race issues in the world.

38313 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #66 of 1687 🔗

Balmoral pleads with public not to use estate grounds as a toilet after human waste and loo roll found

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/balmoral-estate-toilet-dont-use-plea-rangers-a4482721.html

38346 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #67 of 1687 🔗

I saw that on their Facebook page – one person complained about the toilets being shut and fair play to the Balmoral estate for replying but they said that the toilets are the responsibility of Aberdeenshire Council. They also put this on their post:

If you’ve got to go, you’ve got to go!!

However with public toilets closed we are seeing increasing quantities of human waste on the estate.

If you need to pee, please do so at least 30 metres from lochs or streams. If you need to defecate, do so as far away as possible from buildings, from open water or rivers and streams, and from any farm animals. Bury faeces in a shallow hole and replace the turf. Use biodegradable toilet paper rather than wipes. Thanks for your help.

However looks like you’ll need to bring your own shovel then.

38366 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #68 of 1687 🔗

Catch 22 here. Local authorites are not legally bound to provide public toilets. You’d think under health regs they would be responsible for this essential part of public sanitation but evidently not.

This comes back to the need for people to lobby their local councils to do something for their constituencies because our lazy MPs clearly won’t bother.

It’s ironic that lack of sanitation is a much bigger threat to public health than any bad cold virus.

38404 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #69 of 1687 🔗

Time the royal family did a bit of lobbying. If they cab’t, who can?

38549 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to annie, #70 of 1687 🔗

Well the Queen’s not allowed to vote. Or have a political opinion. Maybe she can’t lobby either?

38561 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John P, #71 of 1687 🔗

People can write to her and her office can forward these letters to the government or the relevant authorities.

38638 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #72 of 1687 🔗

Not much help writing to the Queen when her eldest son is all for the global reset and her granddaughter Zara and husband Mike are supporting the covipass..

38417 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #73 of 1687 🔗

Vernon Coleman had a good vid about the consequences of no toilets – UTI, IBS, kidney infections and don’t forget Hepatitis A and cholera.

The abovementioned are a bigger threat than Covid 19 in my opinion.

38470 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #74 of 1687 🔗

Seriously, my guy. Do you not have anything better to do with your time?

38483 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 3, #75 of 1687 🔗

No. He’s a troll.

38487 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to Farinances, 3, #76 of 1687 🔗

Trolls love the lockdown. Notice that?
Miserable, twisted loners who want everyone else as miserable as they are.
Pretty sad.

38503 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #77 of 1687 🔗

Please get a life. And what he’s said about the consequences of the lack of toilets is basic science.

38790 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #78 of 1687 🔗

Yer!
This is what you can catch from human excretions:

Diseases Involving Sewage
Campylobacteriosis, Cryptosporidiosis, Escherichia coli Diarrhea, Encephalitis, Gastroenteritis, Giardiasis,Hepatitis A, Leptospirosis, Methaemoglobinaemia,
Salmonellosis, Poliomyelitis, Shigellosis, Paratyphoid Fever, Typhoid Fever, Yersiniosis
https://www.in.gov/isdh/22963.htm

Interestingly you can probably get covids from the public’s poop too.

What the actual hell IS Public Health England actually FOR again?

38409 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #79 of 1687 🔗

They want to return us to the Middle Ages. It appears they are determined to add cholera to the mix of disease.

38421 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #80 of 1687 🔗

Agree. The Greens want us to return to the Stone Age, the government wants us to return to the Middle Ages. At this rate we might end up with a rerun of the Thirty Years’ War.

38493 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #81 of 1687 🔗

I’d been wondering if we’re already in the middle of some bizarre 21st century cold war.

38507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #82 of 1687 🔗

We probably are.

38502 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, #83 of 1687 🔗

Whose turn is it to win this time? 😉

38506 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #84 of 1687 🔗

LOOL!!!

Seriously neither. We should resist this Great Leap Backwards at all costs.

38438 ▶▶▶▶ Gary, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #85 of 1687 🔗

I think the last sensible thing to come out of epidemiology was when John Snow knocked out a cholera outbreak in 1854. Gone downhill a long way to plumb the depths Ferguson has taken that profession to.

38491 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gary, 8, #86 of 1687 🔗

Ah but John Snow worked clinically, through empirical observation and definitive proof, not by throwing some random numbers into a dodgy computer program.

38511 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gary, 8, #87 of 1687 🔗

Quite. There’s a video circulating on Twitter of a clearly-angry Michael Levitt laying into “scientists” and their lazy methodology of relying on models over observation.

38521 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gary, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #88 of 1687 🔗

Its on youtube actually, here is the direct link, top quality stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=-ZIX0ymg6wk&feature=emb_logo

shame he criticises “scientists” though, plenty of scientists haven’t been involved in this shameful affair, such as nearly everyone in fields outside epidemiology. Would be a shame to lump geologists, astrophysicists and plan biologists in with the contaminated profession of epidemiology.

38524 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Gary, 3, #89 of 1687 🔗

He does criticise the scientific community, but he makes it pretty clear that his ire is focused on the epidemiologists.

38538 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Gary, 1, #90 of 1687 🔗

Omi god, this is class.
Absolute class.

38543 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Farinances, #91 of 1687 🔗

Oh, it’s brilliant, yes.

38567 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, #92 of 1687 🔗

Watched this is and it was so spot on. The video should be circulated more widely.

38486 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #93 of 1687 🔗

That had crossed my mind.

And the Thatcher regime’s stated agenda was to “put the peasants back in their place.”

38523 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #94 of 1687 🔗

I had a vision of Thatcher looking at people in third world countries living on rubbish tips and thinking

“Why don’t we have this here?”

Coming shortly . . .

39345 ▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to Nick Rose, #95 of 1687 🔗

Nick, have you dipped your toes back onto Guido recently. Jesus 90% of that site think Boris could do no wrong. Any comment about how insane the cabinet are and how damaging this is to the country get down voted and gets you blocked 🙂

38315 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 15, #96 of 1687 🔗

Media-Induced Fear Of COVID-19 Is Starting To Cause A Second Wave Of Severe Economic Panic

http://themostimportantnews.com/archives/media-induced-fear-of-covid-19-is-starting-to-cause-a-second-wave-of-severe-economic-panic

Fear of a virus has turned our economy completely upside down, and thanks to the mainstream media much of the population is going to remain deathly afraid of this virus for the foreseeable future.

38342 ▶▶ Nic, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #97 of 1687 🔗

Not me!

38518 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #98 of 1687 🔗

Let them. But also let us get on with our lives. When the pants-wetters realise we’re not dropping dead in the streets, it might tempt them out. Or they can starve to death in their homes. It’s their call really.

38317 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 12, #99 of 1687 🔗

Boris Johnson can’t prove ball spreads the disease so expect clubs back in July

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/boris-johnson-cant-prove-ball-spreads-the-disease-so-expect-clubs-back-in-july-5bjpndmkg

One of the comments:

Andrew Davies

Johnson’s whole approach to coronavirus policy has throughout been that of a tail end batsman – not really quite knowing what to do. Sometimes having a swish and hitting, sometimes missing altogether, and generally not knowing whether to attack or defend but by some miracle still continuing at the crease.

38326 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #100 of 1687 🔗

This was so ridiculous, I couldn’t be more pleased. I’ve had a horrible day, and this has cheered me somewhat, marginally at least…

38321 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 20, #101 of 1687 🔗

Swedish Covid Expert Says the World Still Doesn’t Understand

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-28/sweden-s-covid-expert-says-the-world-still-doesn-t-understand

Key bits

…………….

Over the past week, the epidemiologist has made headlines by lashing out at the World Health Organization and labeling as “mad” countries that opted for strict lockdowns.

Throughout it all, Tegnell has argued that the world is only in the first stage of dealing with a long, uncertain battle with Covid-19. That’s why Sweden’s strategy — keep much of society open, but train people to observe distancing guidelines — is the only realistic way to cope in the long run, he says.

“I’m looking forward to a more serious evaluation of our work than has been made so far,” Tegnell said in a podcast published by Swedish public radio. “There is no way of knowing how this ends.”

…………………

Side Effects

Tegnell’s main concern is that strict lockdowns may temporarily contain the virus, but won’t prevent it from returning. He also says lockdowns come at an avoidable cost.
“In the same way that all drugs have side effects, measures against a pandemic also have negative effects,” he said. “At an authority like ours, which works with a broad spectrum of public health issues, it is natural to take these aspects into account.” He lists domestic abuse, loneliness and mass unemployment.

…………………

38338 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to HawkAnalyst, -40, #102 of 1687 🔗

So you scoffed at second wave fears i see……..idiots!

38356 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to GrantM, 4, #103 of 1687 🔗

Please do bless us with your wisdom and irrefutable evidence of a second wave. We welcome all opinions here.

38357 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Sarigan, 3, #104 of 1687 🔗

Even the daft wrongheaded bolleaux from Grunt

38400 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sarigan, 1, #105 of 1687 🔗

Don’t hold your breath…..

38396 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to GrantM, 6, #106 of 1687 🔗

Oh dear, screeching brain-dead nut-job alert

38462 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to T. Prince, 1, #107 of 1687 🔗

What do you call Grant Mitchell in a suit?

The defendant

38656 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to GrantM, #108 of 1687 🔗

here, take 24 paracetamol and a bottle of gin sweetie 🙂

38339 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #109 of 1687 🔗

I want one of those Tegnell T shirts

38341 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 6, #110 of 1687 🔗

and hire him to work for us!

38456 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to HawkAnalyst, 9, #111 of 1687 🔗

More news from here in Sweden today: they are surveying those 70+ about their experiences during the last few months. Also they are telling people who have had a positive antibody test that they can safely meet with people in risk groups. Karolinska institutet says that they estimate a higher level of immunity to Covid 19 than tests have shown thus far.

38323 microdave, replying to microdave, 2, #112 of 1687 🔗

Thanks for all your efforts, Toby.

Could I throw an idea into the ring and see what others make of it? Notwithstanding our own governments utterly hopeless handling of the situation, many other countries have done fairly major interventions into peoples lives. I’ve wondered for some time if this would have happened had Covid originated somewhere other than China? Is this massive overreaction solely due to distrust of that regime?

38401 ▶▶ Gary, replying to microdave, 13, #113 of 1687 🔗

The massive over-reaction is solely due to China’s evil regime being the first exmaple that others could copy. In China covid-19 crosses species to humans, and then the doctor who discovers it is arrested by commie party authoritiees. While he is being threatened it spreads and escapes any hope of ever being contained. China jumps at the hance to test its new tools of tyranny and eclares Wuhan locked-down. The virus naturally burns itself out locally, and declines, this would have happened whether they locked down or not. But by that time the rest of the world hs been inevitably seeded with a few covid cases per country, and they’re all seated on the 70 day rollercoaster of cases. As they see China’s cases, naturally, decline they assume lockdown caused the decline. Then they suffer politicians logic “we must do something”,”that is something”,”hence we must do that” (shortly after proving that by virtue of both having four legs my dog is a cat). Tegnell in Sweden, being above politics doesn’t fall into this trap, health authorities and governments almost everywhere else do though. If the pandemic had started anywhere which didn’t have the infrastructure of tyranny already widespread, and the government will to crush the people ever further, lockdown would never have been tried the first time, and never copied.

38413 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Gary, 9, #114 of 1687 🔗

Agree. Why the hell the West chose to ape a brutal communist tyranny is beyond me.
If the BBC, a year ago, had discovered a country in Africa that was being brutalised in this way by white, or even Chinese, rulers, can you imagine the squawks of outrage?

38544 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to annie, 2, #115 of 1687 🔗

You know what – with all the impressive civil engineering that the Chinese do, and their ability to manufacture carbon copies of other countries’ cars, and so forth, that a lot of people in the formerly free world are secretly in awe of them.

I think it may have been a case of “imitation is the most sincere form of flattery!”

38418 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gary, 5, #116 of 1687 🔗

There have been suggestions that the original virus escaped from a biotech lab in the US. It was sent to the lab in Wuhan, by none other than Fauci, for further development.

Another rumour suggests that it was deliberately spread by US troops at the military games out there.

I guess we’ll never know but the US is no saint and it’s obviously gunning for China.

The most suspicious thing is the fact that, no matter when and where the lockdowns were implemented, the spikes all follow pretty much the exact same timing and trajectory, even down to the number of days.

38482 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #117 of 1687 🔗

Yes Farr curve, lockdown or not it does its thing and departs.

It seems to act like an amplifier: people who are going to die soon die sooner, people who are already ill become more ill.Most everyone else is little affected. Perhaps more attention should be paid to simple things like not being obese, diabetic or lacking in vitamin D, Eating the opposite of the Food Pyramid would be a start.

38497 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to chris c, #118 of 1687 🔗

Your amplifier suggestion makes a lot of sense.
What doesn’t make sense in that case, is to lockdown if you’re aware it could amplify the Farr curve.

38526 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #119 of 1687 🔗

Precisely!

38559 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #120 of 1687 🔗

PS. I totally agree about reversing the food pyramid.
Unfortunately, if friend Bill gets his way ……

38331 Tom Blackburn, 1, #121 of 1687 🔗

Holiday Suggestion

Faliraki – last week in August/first week in September. If you do make it over, the beers are on me. Plenty of all inclusive hotels with pools, aqua parks and sport inside the complexes.

38334 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #122 of 1687 🔗

Surge of cases in Australia as government admits tracing app has not found any new contacts

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/29/surge-cases-australia-government-admits-tracing-app-has-not/

The Australian government has admitted its Covid-19 contact tracing app has not identified a single contact not already known as the country recorded its highest number of daily new cases since April.
The surge was largely in the state of Victoria where 75 new cases were recorded in 24 hours, making up the vast majority of the 85 new infections recorded across the entire country.
………………..
The surge in cases has come as the Australian government has been forced to admit that its CovidSafe app, which has been downloaded by six million people, has not yet uncovered a single contact who had not already been found by its manual contact tracing teams.
…………………
The data showed it only worked 25 to 50 per cent of the time during locked iPhone-to-iPhone testing on May 26. One month prior to that, the testing results were worse, working 25 per cent of the time, or less, for contact between locked iPhones. Testing also found the app worked poorly when running in the background.

38377 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #123 of 1687 🔗

Hahahaha! Serves them right!

The Environmental health people have been telling them all along that manual tracing is the only way.

Unfortunately, it still doesn’t remove the track us all threat when there’s no viral excuse.

38336 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #124 of 1687 🔗

Ringing the changes at post-lockdown weddings

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ringing-the-changes-at-post-lockdown-weddings-rfk0krkkh

Couples should whisper their vows during wedding ceremonies and wash their hands before and after exchanging wedding rings, official guidance suggests.
Fathers will be barred from walking their daughters under social distancing rules while receptions are “strongly advised” against and should be limited to two households.
From July 4 up to 30 people will be able to attend weddings or civil partnerships in licensed venues in England, but they will have to be conducted in the “shortest possible time”.
…………………………………………
On rings, the guidance says they should be handled by as few people as possible. He said: “Where the exchanging of rings is required or desired for the solemnisation of the marriage or the formation of the civil partnership, hands should be washed before and after. The rings should be handled by as few people as possible.”
Any ceremonies with rituals that involve washing can no longer be done at the venue itself and should be done before arriving. The guidance states people should not wash the bodily parts of others.

39347 ▶▶ steve, replying to HawkAnalyst, #125 of 1687 🔗

Levels of insanity beyond words. Every day these fckwits in government reach new heights. The opposition as well should hang their heads in shame for a total lack of sane actual opposition. Wa*)3rs

38340 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 29, #127 of 1687 🔗

I am convinced that Matt Hancock is actually Joseph Goebbels reincarnated. If he were to donate blood to the NHS, his blood type would register as type E, that’s E for pure Evil.

The Boris Johnson regime is a communist dictatorship. The worst cabinet ministers ever to run this country in its history. And that’s saying something. Urrrrghh. Johnson, Hancock, Gove, Patel, Williamson…all of them out now!

38343 ▶▶ IanE, replying to RDawg, 2, #128 of 1687 🔗

But, didn’t you hear, Johnson has told us that he is Not a communist – and you must know that you can trust him!

38408 ▶▶▶ Gary, replying to IanE, #129 of 1687 🔗

“people have gotta know, whether or not their [primeminister] is a [communist], well I’m not a [communist], I’ve earned everything I’ve got”

38424 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #130 of 1687 🔗

That means he’s been asked!

38345 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to RDawg, -14, #131 of 1687 🔗

Nazi comparisons!?!

38350 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to GrantM, 1, #132 of 1687 🔗

If the cap fits ….

38352 ▶▶ Nic, replying to RDawg, 3, #133 of 1687 🔗

Watch Allo allo hes a dead ringer for one of the german officers!

38354 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, 3, #134 of 1687 🔗

Lieutenant Gruber??? Personality wise he’s more Herr Flick of the Gestapo.

38359 ▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #135 of 1687 🔗

Spot on!

38347 Nic, replying to Nic, 14, #136 of 1687 🔗

If they impose another lockdown in the area I live I will ignore it and simply drive out of the area for non essential.shopping a bite to eat and even a pint.i mean unless they put road blocks up how can they stop.me ?

38369 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nic, 19, #137 of 1687 🔗

Which is fine, but not for the poor business people in Leicester who are open, or were hoping to be from 4 July. This is unhinged. The economic damage is scary, as is the resentment it will engender. And the mayor’s U turn – how on earth has he been so effectively nobbled?
I can’t understand (perhaps the medics here can tell me) why we aren’t encouraging the under 65s to mingle as much as possible and get some immunity whilst they’re fit enough to recover? Appreciate that lots of people in our developed Western setting live with the old and frail, but let them be paid to temporarily stay at home, or if children, be educated in segregated quiet rooms in school? Surely it’s not beyond the wit of man to look after those who need it, while letting the rest of us get on with our lives?

38373 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Bruno, 3, #138 of 1687 🔗

Agree with you totaly particularly as I’m in hospitality.

38513 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 1, #139 of 1687 🔗

Maybe the Leicester residents should do the opposite. Have a within-borders unlocked down.

38519 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bruno, 4, #140 of 1687 🔗

“Surely it’s not beyond the wit of man”

No, but it does seem to be beyond the wit of your average politician.

38414 ▶▶ Gary, replying to Nic, 9, #141 of 1687 🔗

You’d better get thinking about how to overcome roadblocks, because that what our government are heading towards, and what the zealots (the same ones who’ve seriously proposed that every lockdown violator be made to wear a yellow virus shaped patch) are supporting.

38427 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Gary, 8, #142 of 1687 🔗

Wales has had road blocks in its borders throughout. Quackduck hates the English, you see. After all, apart from paying for everything, what do the English ever do for us?

38553 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 6, #143 of 1687 🔗

I hear another couple were stopped in Pembs and “escorted out of Wales” recently. I’ve had another recce of the Flints/Denbs car parks, and they’ve still got them and the laybys chained or cordoned off.

Another irritant are the number of “roadworks” that have cropped up on the back roads (ie, the ones without average speed or apnr cameras), further inhibiting movement by car.

I say this with a heavy heart, but I’m thinking of leaving Wales when this BS is all over.

38802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #144 of 1687 🔗

I HAD a little dream of living in Wales for phase two of my life. That’s out the window. Same for Scotland.

38804 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 4, #145 of 1687 🔗

I was born in Wales, grew up in Wales, live in Wales and work in Wales. I’ve worked and lived on the other side of the Marches too. But I’m not putting up with the BS that the idiot running Wales keeps coming out with. Not decided yet. This is home, after all.

38833 ▶▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to annie, 1, #146 of 1687 🔗

My brother and his wife came from England to stay with us here in Wales a couple of weeks ago – M4 in and out – no problems. My late sister-in-law’s house in Liverpool has been sold and my wife and I travelled up there last week to do a final clearance of the property. Travelling there and back through the Borders, we expected to be challenged, but nothing…

38850 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to StevieH, 1, #147 of 1687 🔗

Encouraging!

38492 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nic, 8, #148 of 1687 🔗

Aside from local lockdowns being disgusting and ridiculous.

Surely they are also pointless? (Even MORE pointless than a blanket lockdown that is!)

Simply for the reason that what happened in italy happened in italy. Local lockdowns drove people out of the affected cities and down south. Into other cities. Where they spread the dreaded lurg.

Cue all the Leicestarians (?) driving out of their local environs to shop, pub, etc. and really the police can do nothing about about it without setting up proper Soviet road blocks.

38528 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Farinances, 4, #149 of 1687 🔗

lol, I don’t know if people from Leicester really have a nickname.

I think that at the weekend especially people might be tempted to stray out of the zone and into the semi-free world beyond.

They won’t like that. I think road blocks are being discussed !

38645 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to John P, 3, #150 of 1687 🔗

“lol, I don’t know if people from Leicester really have a nickname.”
“Foxes” will do nicely, thank you – and we’ll need some of that native cunning to get out of this fox-hole!

38650 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to BTLnewbie, #151 of 1687 🔗

Well, I’m just speaking as a native, but I suppose the football team’s nickname is okay 🙂

38348 Sarigan, 3, #152 of 1687 🔗

Missed you x

38349 Nic, replying to Nic, 2, #153 of 1687 🔗

Your entitled to your opinion.

38358 ▶▶ matt, replying to Nic, 3, #154 of 1687 🔗

Slight correction: “your entitled to you’re opinion”

38365 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to matt, 1, #155 of 1687 🔗

Isn’t it: “You’re entitled to your opinion”

38368 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 1, #156 of 1687 🔗

It should be, but I doubt Grant could get there.

38529 ▶▶ John P, replying to Nic, 2, #157 of 1687 🔗

lol, that’s not opinion, he’s just trolling.

38351 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #158 of 1687 🔗

Time for your meds before mummy puts you to bed

38355 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #159 of 1687 🔗

I think it’s satire, TT

38353 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 23, #160 of 1687 🔗

Went into the local hospital yesterday which is like breaking into Fort Knox . As readers know both staff and visitors are now obliged to wear face masks. Staff have been asked to social distance when on the ward . The problem you see we are told is that during behind the doors clinical meetings staff would often huddle together to look at an x ray etc.

The people who have dictated these new rules are probably the same type of people who have written the new rules for weddings which include such crazy suggestions as the bride and groom need to wash their hands before and after the exchange of rings. I imagine a group of misanthropes who ” dont get out much ” got together to make these rules.

Within the hospital setting they probably don’t realise that all these junior doctors leave the hospital and share hospital accommodation with tiny living rooms and galley kitchens,
I assure you they don’t wear masks at home and close living and often sleeping is effectively rendering their insane rules ineffective.

38496 ▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Peter Thompson, 35, #161 of 1687 🔗

It’s a nightmare. We’ve got a whole one way system now in our hospital, entrances are exits only, meaning in order to get in in the first place, you have to walk around outside.

I did query as to whether we could be permitted to break the one way system in the event of a crash bleep, but nobody could answer me. The people who dictate this sort of nonsense don’t trouble themselves with things like crash bleeps.

I’m finding it all very intrusive and claustrophobic, particularly having to wear a mask constantly. They have matrons on patrol, ready to shout down any poor maskless doctors. In the NHS I’ve often felt like a number, like a cog in a machine. But my powerlessness over the last few months, my inability to help patients, whilst my colleagues have sat back and done nothing is ever more wearing. I can’t even speak out properly because of the effect of the GMC and because all media communication is banned by my trust. Meanwhile there are rainbows on every wall as an ever present reminder as to the cult of the NHS.

I can’t understand how these people who have so little clinical knowledge, and so little consideration for patients, have so much power. Nearly 10 years in medicine to be so powerless. And now we’re all faceless with it. It’s honestly awful. Like a bad dream.

38539 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cassandra, 5, #162 of 1687 🔗

These types of micromanagers used to work in industry. But they destroyed it so have turned to the NHS.

My father and one of his brothers worked for the NHS from its inception until they retired, but in those days “admin” was a support service and the medical personnel made the clinical decisions.

38690 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Cassandra, 3, #163 of 1687 🔗

Secret film the nonsense and get it posted. Please.

38361 matt, replying to matt, 4, #164 of 1687 🔗

I’m going to feed the troll.

Engage, Grant. Make an argument. Try it – it might feel good.

38419 ▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 14, #165 of 1687 🔗

Having Grant is rather like having a pimple on your bum, isn’t it? Irritating, but unimportant.

38430 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 5, #166 of 1687 🔗

Yes, but I’m up for a fight today and all I have is you guys and We mostly agree with each other. Sad times.

38474 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 7, #167 of 1687 🔗

Have you thought of invading a few zombie sites and stirring them up? I can’t do that myself, because zombie talk makes me physically sick.

38498 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 1, #168 of 1687 🔗

Worth a thought. Care for a sweepstake on how quickly I get banned? Also – any specific suggestions?

38504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 5, #169 of 1687 🔗

Try the Telegraph comments!
It’s one extreme to the other in there.
There are some great lockdown sceptics but you might enjoy responding to the self-righteous bedwetters. Be warned, I can only stomach so much of them.

38527 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #170 of 1687 🔗

I’d have to pay to subscribe… may give it a look.

38581 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 1, #171 of 1687 🔗

I got a three month trial subscription for a grand total of £3, just so I could follow the links being posted on here.

38585 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #172 of 1687 🔗

Yes, I know it’s not difficult

38542 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 1, #173 of 1687 🔗

Any post I make with a link goes straight into moderation on Guido now. Mind you, I did lay into their hero (Boris) yesterday after the Leicester Lock was announced. Almost as good as the reaction I got when the original lockdown was announced.

38550 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, #174 of 1687 🔗

Guido is another thought.

39350 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to Nick Rose, #175 of 1687 🔗

Ha just wrote above to you a similar thing. Guido comments thread must be just the entire cabinet and family posting.

38362 Major Panic, #176 of 1687 🔗
38370 Mollymawk, replying to Mollymawk, 21, #177 of 1687 🔗

There has been a lot of (proper) interest in schools and their bizarre disinterest in providing a high standard of education in a pleasant environment to their charges, but what about health?
Almost every branch of health service we have had contact with during the last 100 days (too many unfortunately) has been disabled, disinterested or just not working at all. Tried to contact a UCHL department today, on their direct line, and still got the answerphone message that they would not speak on phone due to the high volume of work from Covid…is their a secret second wave?
My GP is now allowing a favoured few into the building, which suddenly feels like a fortress to keep ill people out, but ill people must stand whilst waiting, and be barked at by officious nurses instead of friendly receptionists. A woman in her 80s was sent back out into the rain as she was ‘too early’ for her appointment! The quantity of inadequate or unavailable health care over these last 100 days is too distressing to consider…and as for dentistry, don’t get me started.

38428 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mollymawk, 11, #178 of 1687 🔗

Just shut up, me-dear, and clap them as they deserve.
In jail, would be my choice.

38371 WillemKoppenhol, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 20, #179 of 1687 🔗

Just thought of this scenario: when the UK (and other European governments) panicked in March hospitals were emptied and treatments were stopped. Now imagine you were told you had cancer at the beginning of March. Terrible news of course, but at least your oncologist offered a treatment. However, that offer was retracted just a few weeks later, because all of a sudden your oncologist (and all his mates) decided they no longer had a commitment to cancer patients.

In Korea they did not lock down. They had (and have) all sorts of anti-COVID-19 policies, but no lock down. They have been very successful at fighting the virus, after 6 months they have a mere 282 deaths for 51.5 million people! (Note that Taiwan, with an unbelievably good score of 7 deaths for 23.8 million people, did even better!) The Koreans (and the Taiwanese) did not make the mistake of emptying their hospitals. To the contrary, everything went on as planned, any patient was helped.

My wife (who happens to be South Korean) and I started to notice in March/April that something was being done very wrong in Europe. So we thought “what if we want to go to Korea right now?” This was mid April. I thought we could no longer buy a ticket, but I was wrong: if we had wanted to leave, we could have flown the very next day for 600 EUR per person. (We didn’t.)

Now let’s put these two things together. So, your cancer treatment was cancelled at the end of March? If you had bought yourself a ticket to Korea, you would have landed at (Seoul) Incheon Airport. You would have been tested several times. If negative you could then go to any hospital (there are some very good ones in Seoul!) and be treated for your cancer. (Even your insurance company might have liked it, they would very probably have been better off financially this way too…)

You would be helped by an oncologist in a country with almost no COVID-19 deaths for a non-COVID-19 decease (for which you would not have been helped in the UK), where they had no lock down, no obligatory social distancing at 2 meters or any distance, where in between treatments you could actually go to for instance a coffee bar (they were 95% of the time open) or do normal shopping, and meet with the local people if you would like to do so (there were legally no limits to group sizes, for all they cared in Korea you could have organized a demonstration of a million people at any time in the last 6 months and it would have been perfectly legal! same in Taiwan by the way) and financially still probably be better off than if you had stayed in the UK (or the Netherlands). And despite all that our governments still defend these ridiculous lock downs!

I am sure there must be many more of these weird scenarios, scenarios which you simply could not have made up just last year even with a gun to your head. And yet we are now living through this, it is actually happening. I still can’t get my head around it, it is just too bizarre…

38385 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 2, #180 of 1687 🔗

And they do love a good street protest in Seoul, I assume the usual plethora of gatherings has been continuing as usual?
‘Walking the streets of Seoul on any given day, it is impossible to avoid scenes of protest. In particular Gwanghwamun Square in the central Jongno district has become an area of focus for protesters, with semi-permanent tents erected for long-term protests, and usually with counterprotests located on the opposite side of the road. Mass protests, like those currently taking place over Japanese trade restrictions, or those that led to the impeachment of President Park Geun-hye in late 2016, form easily and are able to comprise of a wide cross-section of South Korean society….’
If so, doesn’t seem to have dented their good response to Covid.

39600 ▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Bruno, #181 of 1687 🔗

There weren’t large scale demonstrations in the last 6 months. Not because they were illegal (they weren’t!), but apparently at the moment they simply don’t have too much to complain about.

They did have a BLM demonstration some time ago in Seoul, but funnily enough just 100 people turned up (seems Koreans don’t care much about BLM…). But 100 or 1 million people, nobody in Korea suggested at the time that demonstrations could lead to spreading of COVID-19. Given that they only have 282 COVID-19 deaths they must be on to something, right?

Same in Taiwan: for historical reasons (they used to have, like Korea, a right-wing military dictatorship) Taiwanese loath the idea of culling civil rights, including the right to demonstrate. So on 25 March the government “suggested” (literal translation of term used) to not have outdoor activities (incl. demonstrations) with more than 500 people, but that was just a guideline, not a law/rule. And since then even the suggestion has already been retracted.

A Taiwanese friend of mine, a doctor in Taipei, wrote this in an email to me a few days ago: “ The situation of Taiwan is a little different from Europe: since Taiwan didn’t have too many cases, we didn’t close schools, offices, shops, public transportation. Everyday life was as usual just a little more self-protection only. But we closed borders.

He thinks they “ didn’t have too many cases “, which at FIVE cases for 23.8 million is the understatement of the century! Also n otice what they didn’t do: “ we didn’t close schools, offices, shops, public transportation. ” According to our “experts” (plus the hysterical fools still defending their policies) had been right Taiwan would now be a DEATH ZONE. Just like Korea and Japan would have been DEATH ZONES by now. Yet, they aren’t. Strange. Very strange…

38449 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 4, #182 of 1687 🔗

AFAIK, the main difference between Japan, S Korea Taiwan & increasingly Honk Kong is the prevalance of bidet toilets.
All these countries have very strong strictures on handwashing using soap&water not shaking hands, not touching face etc.
If there is a strong element of fecal transfer (like Polio) then these countries have managed to retard it with their strong public hygeine.
I have heard that one S Korean hospital instituted compulsory handwashinng between patients / rooms for all people in the hospital by adding loads of extra sinks. Result was No Covid.
Similarly one reason old peoples homes are hotbed of infection is the high % with toilet issues and or dementia almost guaranteeing fecal transfer.
Similarly countries like Austria are noted for greater public hygeine then inner city UK

38466 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nessimmersion, #183 of 1687 🔗

Our towns and cities often have appalling public loos.

38468 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #184 of 1687 🔗

I was in Japan on holiday not that long ago and they didn’t have any soap in the public toilets in Tokyo. Unless you went to shopping centres and other areas that have a high concentration of foreign tourists.

Same happened in Kyoto and that’s why our guide provided us with handwipes because there was no soap in the public toilets located in the temples and shrines that we visited.

38689 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bart Simpson, #185 of 1687 🔗

I’ll take your advice on that, having never been to Japan
However 75% of Japanese toilets are bidet toilets I.e. no toilet paper, drastically reducing probability of fecal contamination for majority of population. Similar in S Korea as a legacy of narrow gauge waste pipes.
It does mean that toilets can be more hygeinic. ( Note can be not necessarily will be)

38854 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #186 of 1687 🔗

Soap still useful for a bidet!
The toilets themselves might be more hygienic but users’ hands sound like a nightmare.

38881 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nessimmersion, #187 of 1687 🔗

They do provide loo rolls even in bidet toilets.

39607 ▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Nessimmersion, #188 of 1687 🔗

I have lived in Korea before (2,5 years total), and although there are many good things to be mentioned about the place, their toilets definitely aren’t part of that.

Also, when eating in restaurants you all eat from the same bowls of side dishes, even in large groups of relative strangers, using chop sticks which go between the food in the bowls and your month (and back and forth). So no points for that either. (The food is great by the way!)

And the (older) men still have the tendency to spit on the floor, I have seen them do it sometimes even in a subway carriage…

So they are a high-tech country, which is probably what helped them (and which means we could very probably use their solutions as well), but hygienically speaking I wouldn’t give them more (or less) points than us over here.

39613 ▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #189 of 1687 🔗

Sorry, forgot about your point of old people homes. In Korea, unlike Britain and the Netherlands, people weren’t kicked out of hospitals in March. Instead, whenever they were going to be discharged (under normal circumstances, as in: there are always people going in and out of hospitals) they were tested on two consecutive days and if tested negative twice for COVID-19 they would then be discharged (if not, they were quarantined of course). This alone must already have avoided a lot of deaths.

38372 Nic, replying to Nic, 28, #190 of 1687 🔗

So the job losses are mounting thousands going at easyjet and Airbus.
Maybe instead of a briefing giving covid deaths every day they could change it to daily job losses.
Hand job could deliver it backed up with expert opinion from Witty and Vallance,

38383 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nic, 11, #191 of 1687 🔗

It would be useful if the MSM did that, rather than trumpeting pointless covid “cases”.

38406 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nic, 11, #192 of 1687 🔗

Agree. They should change their record its getting boring now.

Daily job losses should also include a daily briefing of businesses going bust.

That should wake up the public from their furloughed induced torpor.

38464 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #193 of 1687 🔗

And for the self-righteous I’m All Right Jacks, details of how the economic problems are going to have a knock-on effect that hits them.

38473 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #194 of 1687 🔗

Well said. As for those drawing lovely pensions, just wait until Sunak announces a tax on their pensions to pay for all of the government’s spending – that should wake them up too.

38754 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #195 of 1687 🔗

‘Hits them’ is crucial. It’s awfully easy to bleat ‘Saving lives is more important than the economy’ when you are sprawling on a couch of unearned furlough money and cosily expect it to go on forever.
‘Prolonging the lives of a handful of elderly people I don’t personally know or care a bean a out is more important than me keeping my job, or my children having the slightest hope of a decent career’ sounds a bit different.

38374 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 4, #196 of 1687 🔗

Video footage from Sweden. Looks amazing! Not a muzzle or crazy unjustifiable rule in sight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFxfs5X126M

38380 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, -35, #197 of 1687 🔗

Muzzle…….f off with that please!

38382 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to GrantM, 6, #198 of 1687 🔗

Aw, bless.

38423 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to GrantM, 4, #199 of 1687 🔗

Says Grant the ‘Masked Moron’.

38433 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 5, #200 of 1687 🔗

Surely we must forgive him all things because of his coruscating wit and majestic command of the English language?

38445 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to annie, #201 of 1687 🔗

For some reason I feel sorry for it..

38447 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, #202 of 1687 🔗

Even Noel Coward and George Bernard Shaw made mistakes.

38461 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, 2, #203 of 1687 🔗

Dont feed the troll!

38490 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Cheezilla, #204 of 1687 🔗

True, it’s too easy…

39354 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to GrantM, #205 of 1687 🔗

Try actually contributing with anything actually supporting your view.
Can you actually defend the masked morons you see walking around with masks around their chins smoking. Hopefully they get a mention in the Darwin awards.

39676 ▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to GrantM, #206 of 1687 🔗

Wow! I’m pinioned by the blinding brilliance of the reasoning at the heart of that meticulously constructed logical proposition. You truly are the thinker of our Age. The shades of Aristotle, Plato, Voltaire, Kant et al prostrate themselves at your feet in awe. Oh wait…

38443 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 8, #207 of 1687 🔗

News from Sweden – numbers in intensive care down to 155 (from 200 last week – a month ago it was 400) and numbers in hospital with CV19 (but not in intensive care) down by 81. And Tegnell seems to be ruling out introducing face masks 🙂

38446 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 6, #208 of 1687 🔗

Can I move to Sweden please? I’ve spent a lot of time in Stockholm in my life and I do love it.

Any wiggle room on the tax rate?

38459 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, #209 of 1687 🔗

You have until 31st December to move here!

38501 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 2, #210 of 1687 🔗

Not necessarily – I have an Irish passport, as does my wife.

38644 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to matt, #211 of 1687 🔗

Enjoyed my last trip to Sweden. I would consider going if I could persuade my family. Terrible at languages though, other than French.

38654 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to James007, 1, #212 of 1687 🔗

I can read Swedish OK, because I know German and English. But the rhythm of the spoken language baffles me. I’d get there in the end though, I’m sure.

38376 Gary, replying to Gary, 28, #213 of 1687 🔗

I’m no christian, I’m no fan of any religion. But the freedom to go into a church is just like the freedom to go to your job, or to a pub, or out walking, or to see your family and friends… It is not up to government to decide what freedoms can and can’t be permitted, all must be allowed to get on with life. Well done to those christians who are suing, hope they will be followed by others who’ll sue other organisations which went quisling and collaborationist with illegal ministerial lockdown decrees.

38603 ▶▶ James007, replying to Gary, 6, #214 of 1687 🔗

Agreed. I read they are reopening but the regulations are onerous. No communion, no songs, no responses or shared prayers, no loud talking, no wind instruments, no coffee, perspex screen in front of any musicians if possible etc…
With such restrictions, I think some Christians will wonder what the point of going to church would be.

38625 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to James007, 6, #215 of 1687 🔗

And where are the churches? The pope stood up to the Italian government and insisted that mass should return before hairdressing, but he’s been silent here, as has Nichols. Welby is too busy worrying about which knee to bend and whether Jesus was white.

For shame.

38810 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to James007, 1, #216 of 1687 🔗

No wind instruments. ffs.

38814 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, #217 of 1687 🔗

I think Jesus himself would weep at all this insanity being propagated in His name.

38381 GrantM, replying to GrantM, -36, #218 of 1687 🔗

Enjoy the second wave you who harras old women who choose to wear masks

38384 ▶▶ matt, replying to GrantM, 6, #219 of 1687 🔗

Hope you enjoy it too!

38420 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to matt, 9, #220 of 1687 🔗

Don’t you get the feeling that this numpty is ecstatic at the thought of a second wave? It must want a job at the BBC when it grows up.

38435 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 4, #221 of 1687 🔗

Arrested development, no doubt. Some mothers do ‘ave ’em.

38436 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 5, #222 of 1687 🔗

Yes. Not sure why I was downvoted for that, but I will take it on the chin, because I know I shouldn’t feed the troll.

38439 ▶▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to T. Prince, -13, #223 of 1687 🔗

It…….it!?!…….you refer to me as it?………you cretins are so kind!…………….not really

38442 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to GrantM, 2, #224 of 1687 🔗

Wow, just wow!

38739 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to GrantM, #225 of 1687 🔗

Look up cretins …it’s an abusive non PC term when used pejoratively. But in its original meaning it just means you are referring to us as Christians.

39682 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to GrantM, #226 of 1687 🔗

Live by the ad hom, die by the ad hom. Hoist by your own petard. Or, as Cpl Jones was wont to opine, “They don’t like it up ’em!”. Chin chin.

38457 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, 6, #227 of 1687 🔗

He’s a troll.

38738 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to T. Prince, #228 of 1687 🔗

Probably is a BBC staffer…one of those sad shadowy figures you see on the news backdrop staring at a screen and doing very little else.

38767 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to OKUK, #229 of 1687 🔗

i reckon a teacher who is getting bored sitting in the garden all day

38412 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to GrantM, 2, #230 of 1687 🔗

Dur! It’s ‘harass’.Been off little school too long eh?

38454 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to GrantM, 3, #231 of 1687 🔗
38701 ▶▶ Basics, replying to GrantM, 1, #232 of 1687 🔗

I have assisted two elderly people who were suffering lack of oxygen while wearing a mask.

Separately.
Another sceptic kindly wrote to alert a mask maker of the dangers of wearing a mask. The mask makers legal dept agreed that their masks ought to have warning notices stitched to them.

These are actions of responsibility and compassion. Have you been busy shopping for the locked up as I have? Keeping your eye out for others who are struggling? Good for you well done.

38737 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to GrantM, #233 of 1687 🔗

We’ve lived through worse – Hong Kong Flu for instance. Phone mummy or maybe granny and ask her about it. She won’t remember it….that’s how important something like this is, or should be.

39678 ▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to GrantM, #234 of 1687 🔗

Ah, our Philosopher-King once more graces us with his infinite wisdom. Compared to GrantM Descartes is like unto Chubby Brown. Oh wait…

38386 Nic, replying to Nic, 12, #235 of 1687 🔗

Job losses are mounting now all the pro lockdowners are in for a nasty shock.
And we will.be proved right.

38463 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nic, 3, #236 of 1687 🔗

We will. We will.

38611 ▶▶ James007, replying to Nic, 2, #237 of 1687 🔗

The “bounce back” plan today didn’t exactly fill me with confidence. Things I’ve already heard before about more nurses, police officers and spreading opportunity. Although the denial of being a communist was not expected.

So the bounce back fund is £5billion? That’s 5% of the expected bill for HS2, or to put it another way, about 3 days of lockdown damage. I would not be at all suprised if vast sums are on the way in the first of Sunak’s emergency budgets.

38392 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #238 of 1687 🔗

Horror stories from the High Street. Indeed that boycott list is growing longer and longer and longer:

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1277936623318110210

Given that 9 out of 10 stores were unable to pay their rent last 24 June, I don’t see many of these surviving especially if they treat customers like dirt and behave like KGB commissars or the Gestapo.

38431 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 24, #239 of 1687 🔗

From Dolan’s tweet thread:
I went to the mall on Saturday. I was the only one without a mask. When people saw that I could get away with it, they started to take their masks off. It was nice to see smiling faces again. Boycott shops who want you to wear a mask that cannot prevent the spread of this virus.

Just keep being an example, to the best of your ability!

39228 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #240 of 1687 🔗

Free the smile!

Hash tag that if you like it is my gift to the world!

38914 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #241 of 1687 🔗

This is great. Many people responded to Simon’s tweet with their own dire experiences when shopping ( many challenged, walked out and vowed that they won’t go back ). Interestingly a few big brands’ PR people responded to some of these tweets and asked them to send them a Private Message or Direct Message with the details so that they can investigate.

Continue challenging and vote with your feet if you are not happy with the way you were treated.

38934 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Victoria, 3, #242 of 1687 🔗

Exactly. Hope the public do the same with pubs, restaurants, museums and heritage sites.

38393 Nic, 6, #243 of 1687 🔗

Any body that says white lives matter is considered fat right now

38395 matt, replying to matt, 16, #244 of 1687 🔗

Free speech is free speech. I may not like what you have to say, but I defend your right to say it. Well done, by the way for digging up an article from a site nobody has ever heard of, which has an opinion piece about the general secretary of the free speech union defending the right to free speech.

38407 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to matt, -35, #245 of 1687 🔗

Well its not like anyone has heard if this site. What a failure this movement has turned out to be. Just the same 50 people who post over and over again

38425 ▶▶▶ Gary, replying to GrantM, 9, #246 of 1687 🔗

GrantM, look outside your window. Or go in to town. Count all the people who aren’t paranoid, who don’t cower as you step towards them. Everyone who has been to a beach, or a protest (about anything). They might not all know it, but they’re with our movement. They’re out living and violating lockdown, they might not talk of it in the same terms we do, but they’ve mae up their mins not to tolerate any more abusive ministerial decrees. The lockdown might not collapse under crowds waving the sceptic banner, but when it’s collapse is complete we’ll have won. You’ll have just spent months cowering.

38432 ▶▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to Gary, -14, #247 of 1687 🔗

For the record, ive never been in fear or cowered. Im not a sheep who believes the MSM

38440 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to GrantM, 4, #248 of 1687 🔗

Then enlighten us with some facts instead of coming here to insult. It just makes you sound stupid.

38444 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to T. Prince, -26, #249 of 1687 🔗

You constantly down talk people who choose to wear face masks cause you believe it will lead to the lockdown lasting forever………imagine if social media/internet was a thing during the spanish flu

38451 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to GrantM, 7, #250 of 1687 🔗

Have you paid any attention at all to the science on whether or not face masks make any difference?

38453 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gary, replying to GrantM, #251 of 1687 🔗

And you’re opposed to every aspect of the lockdown and “new normal” except for facemasks and hand hygiene?

38734 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Gary, #252 of 1687 🔗

Sounds like you’ve had one spliff too many. You’re not making sense any more.

38477 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to GrantM, 7, #253 of 1687 🔗

“You constantly shit talk people who choose to wear face masks cause you believe it will lead to the lockdown lasting forever”

Wrong. If people choose to wear face masks then that’s up to them. I would object though of being forced to wear one when the ‘science’ on the wearing of them is unclear. If you choose to, have a look at this section “ On the effectiveness of masks” in the link below. Then maybe you can come back and have a grown up debate (although I very much doubt it).

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

38733 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to GrantM, #254 of 1687 🔗

You probably don’t even know the derivation of cretin, you poor sap. Look it up.

38735 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to GrantM, 1, #255 of 1687 🔗

I thought it was overdope speech…but you could be right. Or maybe both – too much alcohol and too much cannabis as he/ze tries to dissociate from reality.

38664 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 2, #256 of 1687 🔗

Talking through his m-arse-k.

38441 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to GrantM, #257 of 1687 🔗

So… what are you saying? You believe in the horror of SARS-CoV 2 and Covid 19 because you’ve done independent research? Please share it if so n

38450 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gary, replying to GrantM, 1, #258 of 1687 🔗

So you oppose the lockdown? Believe civil libertes are worth whatever riks they bring? Recognise that economic damage and cancellation of elective surgeries will kill many more than the virus ever could? Just answer those three questions, a yes or no for each.

38455 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to GrantM, 1, #259 of 1687 🔗

77th brigade know to ignore the MSM – unless they’re contributing to it.

38467 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to GrantM, 1, #260 of 1687 🔗

You’ve never heard of apostrophes either

38731 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to GrantM, #261 of 1687 🔗

So sounds like you are Antifa then and are just intent on getting your own way by violence.

38732 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to GrantM, #262 of 1687 🔗

Antifa love face masks for obvious reasons! They were trend-setters as far as face masks go!

38484 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to GrantM, 5, #263 of 1687 🔗

How stupid are you?! You’re one of the 50! If you don’t like it here, go and infest somewhere else

38729 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to GrantM, #264 of 1687 🔗

That’s 23 down votes. Another 27 to go if your theory is correct.

39019 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to GrantM, #265 of 1687 🔗

Come on, everyone vote to prove more than 50 come to this site.

38397 Paulo Costa, 3, #266 of 1687 🔗

Immunity to COVID-19 is probably higher than tests have shown
New research from Karolinska Institutet and Karolinska University Hospital shows that many people with mild or asymptomatic COVID-19 demonstrate so-called T-cell-mediated immunity to the new coronavirus, even if they have not tested positively for antibodies. According to the researchers, this means that public immunity is probably higher than antibody tests suggest. The article is freely available on the bioRxiv server and has been submitted for publication in a scientific journal.
(…)

38398 Chris, 3, #267 of 1687 🔗

Thank you for writing this. To me it seems like common sense, but most people don’t get it. It feels a bit hopeless sometimes.

38403 T. Prince, #268 of 1687 🔗

Grow up.

38405 TJN, replying to TJN, 19, #269 of 1687 🔗

What an absolute shower this Government is.’

That can’t be said often or loudly enough.

And I write that as someone who had restrained hopes that the December election result would mark a new beginning.

38535 ▶▶ IanE, replying to TJN, 3, #270 of 1687 🔗

Ditto.

38651 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to IanE, 2, #271 of 1687 🔗

Ditto too!

39013 ▶▶ chris c, replying to TJN, #272 of 1687 🔗

It was a new beginning. Just not the one anyone wanted

38416 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 5, #273 of 1687 🔗

Ah the troll is back! 77th Brigade perhaps or just bored?

38452 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to RDawg, -20, #274 of 1687 🔗

Im not part of this 77th Brigade, if i was this site would have been history by now

38660 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to GrantM, 1, #275 of 1687 🔗

🤣 wanker

39663 ▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to GrantM, 1, #276 of 1687 🔗

Ooh, talk about delusions of adequacy…

(I don’t normally lower myself to ad homs, but trying to actually engage with this GrantM character would be futile as he appears impervious to reason. So I may as well enjoy a little trollbaiting).

38426 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #277 of 1687 🔗

I’m sure Goebbels could lie more convincingly.

39226 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #278 of 1687 🔗

One thing about exoeriencing all this has given me is an understanding of how facism in 30s Germany could have happened. How a population could have allowed such a thing to establish.

38429 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #279 of 1687 🔗

This criminal government won’t last another 12 months, I predict.

38533 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Jonathan Castro, 3, #280 of 1687 🔗

I hope you are right, but it is always hard to get rid of power-mad (is there any other sort?) communists.

38658 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to IanE, 3, #281 of 1687 🔗

And to think a lot of us were worried as to what might happen if Corbyn won the election in December! Boris is just as bad it would seem..

38621 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #282 of 1687 🔗

Wish I could be that confident. In the main the opposition (all parties) agree with them

38662 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 3, #283 of 1687 🔗

But what will replace it?Is there a single politician with any integrity who could and would get us out of this bollox?

38434 Invunche, #284 of 1687 🔗

These days its hard to tell. People that would label themselves “left” seem to be behaving in a manner befitting the OG facists from the 30s in Spain and Italy.

But Toby would be very well advised to steer well clear of the likes of Robinson and Hundred Hands.

38437 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 14, #285 of 1687 🔗

On another note from the interesting conversation I’m having with Matt and Willem about what lies behind the Leicester shenanigans, below, I would like to share our experience in a small High Peak town today:

We have a lovely walk over the hill to get there every week. Last week, as I posted, the top of the town was normal but the supermarket was awful. Muzzle city.

However, today, the top was quiet and normal (1 mask) but the lovely surprise was the supermarket. Most of the barricades in the carpark gone. Then, 4 staff sitting round a table in the currently disused cafe having a meeting. No masks, no social distancing, lively discussion – all that breathing!

In the store itself, a relaxed atmosphere, only 1 or 2 masks, no swerving or backing-off, everyone smiley. It seemed like a miracle after all the media efforts to whip up the fear again. In the town, a few shops open with all the hand sanitiser/distancing crap going on and no customers.

The buses were largely empty (they used to be full on this route) but the one man I could see clearly on one bus had no mask on. 🙂

Today’s bonus, we had our secateurs with us to de-bramble the path over the hill and they came in useful to remove 3 anti-social distancing notices off bus stops.

The only sad bit was just as we reached home, the local breadvan bus came up as we passed a stop. The man waiting got his muzzle out of his pocket and got on. He was the only passenger.

38458 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, -27, #286 of 1687 🔗

Muzzle……..f*** right off with that. If someone wants to wear a mask. Let them. Dont bully or antagonise or harass them

38569 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to GrantM, 7, #287 of 1687 🔗

Who is advocating or perpetrating this bullying? It is clearly those who do NOT wish to wear masks that are being bullied, via force of law, government propaganda and rules implemented by businesses forced to comply with government guidelines on pain of being shut down.

38620 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to GrantM, 1, #288 of 1687 🔗

She wasn’t advocating bullying anyone. Clear case of transference I think.

38803 ▶▶▶ Shep, replying to GrantM, 1, #289 of 1687 🔗

-Don’t think anyone wants to wear a mask , unless they have not researched the merit of doing so, it’s more a case of compliance to avoid hassle. Most people just wanna get on with their day with minimum fuss, I know I do, cheers, Sok)

38448 Cheezilla, 2, #290 of 1687 🔗

That’s a somewhat dubious website. Beware of the cookies.

And our resident troll while you’re at it.

38472 Bruno, replying to Bruno, 4, #291 of 1687 🔗

Even local government is fed up with this ‘madness..nonsensical, unachievable’ tosh:
https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/lgc-briefing/children-wont-play-ball-on-social-distancing-29-06-2020/

38488 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to Bruno, -23, #292 of 1687 🔗

Oh wow!, another……..3 people becoming part of this cause of bullying little old women for wearing masks. What a cause worth joining! 😝 😞

38495 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to GrantM, 3, #293 of 1687 🔗

well done .. a comment without an expletive

38500 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to GrantM, 2, #294 of 1687 🔗

You don’t have to comment here Grant. You are free to leave if you don’t agree with the views being expressed here.

38505 ▶▶▶▶ Gary, replying to John P, 2, #295 of 1687 🔗

He’s obviously pro-mask, whether or not they’re effective and whether or not they help contribute to fear they are a minor irritation to the harms of lockdown, surviellance, contactless payment and business closures. Lets see if we can get GrantM to properly oppose everything else about the lockdown and “new normal”, if he still wears a mask that doesn’t matter as long as he opposes the rest of the authoritarianism.

38512 ▶▶▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Gary, 2, #296 of 1687 🔗

He’s obviously pro-mask’

Probably really ugly and disfigured.

38520 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Gary, 1, #297 of 1687 🔗

“He’s obviously pro-mask”. Yes, ‘gimp mask’ if you ask me, he/she/it does strike me as a bit….odd!

38522 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Gary, 12, #298 of 1687 🔗

I’m not sure if he is pro muzzle but he seems to think that we all go around harrassing muzzled old ladies.
What I am against is people being scared into wearing muzzles, that are probably doing them more harm than good
(good point – or she)

38532 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to Major Panic, 3, #299 of 1687 🔗

He gives a classical example of strawmanning.

38537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Rachel, 2, #300 of 1687 🔗

You assume a basic knowledge of the philosophical fallacies

38806 ▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to John P, 1, #301 of 1687 🔗

comment is free here, all comments and replies welcome, love em or hate em, yeah!

38476 John P, replying to John P, 6, #303 of 1687 🔗

I just listened to the whole of Toby’s interview with Stephen Knight. A very impressive presentation by Toby.

I haven’t (as yet) joined the Free Speech Union, but it was there, earlier this year, that I first became really aware of his work.

I’ve been formulating my own ideas lately about the concept of free speech, what it is and whether there are circumstances in which it should be curtailed.

My intial thoughts were that it is only where it involves children that there any genuine reason for censorship, both of speech (aural narrative), and visual narratives.

Pornography being an obvious example of something that children should not have access to.

Also that there is what I think of as a “hard” censorship, which is the sort of censorship that the FSU is mostly dealing with – the “traditional” free speech issues – but also a sort of “soft” censorship, which might be where a narrative is not actively censored, but instead where the speaker is smeared.

An example is David Icke – who I have never listened to – and another might be Dr Piers Robinson, an academic who has been smeared as a “conspiracy theorist” by the Times, for expressing dissenting opinion over government policy on Syria. The smears dissuade people from even listening to what the person who has been smeared has to say. Surely as adults we can make up our own minds about people and their views?

38494 ▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 3, #304 of 1687 🔗

I think that’s mostly Toby’s point in that interview, John. As he says several times “sunlight is the best antiseptic”. Views must be opposed, because if they aren’t, they can never win.

As for the decency versus free speech argument – the states ties pornography in with free speech, but I’m fairly sure it isn’t the same thing. There is a line, clearly.

38575 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, #305 of 1687 🔗

Free speech is about an individual relating a story, a narrative, in a public space to an audience.

You can tell a story with words (aural narrative) or with pictures, sometimes moving pictures (tv etc), which I call visual narrative.

Pornography is usually visual narrative, but sometimes it can involve smutty or obscene conversation.

38809 ▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to John P, #306 of 1687 🔗

Or a loving conversation, porn does not have to be dark does it?

39001 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Shep, #307 of 1687 🔗

Porn or erotica?

39000 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #308 of 1687 🔗

Pornography is inevitably exploitative and objectivising. It’s often about power.
Not sure that can generally be applied to free speech.

38514 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to John P, 5, #309 of 1687 🔗

I think David Icke is too conspiracy-minded and appears to be into new age gobbledygook, but he speaks a lot of sense otherwise.

38571 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Castro, 2, #310 of 1687 🔗

I’ve never listened to him because of all of the bad press he’s received. I doubt I would agree with him on most issues, but I don’t think it would hurt me to actually hear what he has to say, rather than judging him in advance.

38693 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to John P, 5, #311 of 1687 🔗

I’ve listened to a lot of Icke (I purposefully listen to anyone who gets bashed, branded a racist, or a conspiracy theorist).

He is a total conspiracy theorist. I actually hate that phrase and all its loaded….glory but….. he is. The lizard people. The satanic child abuse. It’s all a bit wild.

However. As I’ve said before, most conspiracies are grounded in truth. There’s a lot of sense in there. And a lot of what he says I feel is rooted in reality somewhere (follow the money, basically). You shouldn’t discount everything something says on account of their….madder side 😉

38812 ▶▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Farinances, #312 of 1687 🔗

Epstein suicide?

38928 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Shep, #313 of 1687 🔗

I think even naive children can see that man didn’t kill himself.
I do not, however, think lizard people killed him.

38948 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Farinances, #314 of 1687 🔗

There was a good documentary made by movie stunt men called out of the shadows that documented abuse cases – I was going o post the link but the account has been suspended.

http://outoftheshadows.org/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi

If you can find it then “fall cabal” is a 9 or 10 part series on child abuse etc. It was on youtube and bit chute but very well “hidden” if you want to corroborate what David Icke and others have been saying for years – minus the lizard aliens (more the pity, I used to enjoy this stories as I like science fiction/fantasy).

39201 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #315 of 1687 🔗

managed to find a non-deleted account using a VPN:

https://www.outofshadows.org

39003 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #316 of 1687 🔗

He points out that, if he talks so much bollox, why do the powersthatbe go to such lengths to prevent him from speaking?
Among the lizards etc he does talk a lot of sense and makes some very thought-provoking observations.

38811 ▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to John P, #317 of 1687 🔗

‘Gaslighted’, The world’s population in 2020)

38479 Farinances, 3, #318 of 1687 🔗

Personally I find it’s always the other way around.

38481 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #319 of 1687 🔗

Have sent Simon Dolan a link to the National Gallery’s reopening protocols and a copy of my email. It will be interesting to see if he replies.

38606 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, #320 of 1687 🔗

Out of interest, are you contacting him via Twitter or some other means? I have information I would like to send him, but have no desire to open a Twitter account!

38623 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #321 of 1687 🔗

I contacted him via Twitter however I wonder if you can contact him on the crowd funding page for his judicial review…..

38800 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Carrie, #322 of 1687 🔗

You might be able to get hold of him via the Keep Britain Free website.

39006 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ambwozere, #323 of 1687 🔗

I couldn’t find a contact link on there Amb.

39223 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #324 of 1687 🔗

I think Twitter is the best way to contact him.

38485 matt, replying to matt, 39, #325 of 1687 🔗

A thread for GrantM

Because I (for one) and we (I’m sure) would like to hear your opinions and it’s not fair to make you trawl the whole site looking for things to which to object.

I will lay out briefly what I think is the consensus here (other opinions and shades of opinion exist) so that you can comment. Others should feel free to object/add

1) the scientific evidence and data strongly suggest that the virus SARS-CoV 2 is not especially infectious and that the associated disease COVID-19 is only marginally more deadly than seasonal ‘flu in a bad year
2) while it is sad that, since we do not have an effective way to combat the virus Or the disease, people have died, the degree of the problem does not justify the extreme assault on the liberty of humanity, the education, health and well-being of children or the direct assault on the health of everyone else in the country who does not have Covid-19, who has not been able to seek proper medical attention for the last nearly-4-months
3) the mainstream media and the government have participated in a deliberate propaganda campaign to terrify the general public
4) the destruction of the economy caused by the lockdown and the bizarre social distancing measures will ultimately cost more lives than lockdown could possibly have saved
5) the figures from around the world come close to proving that lockdown saved nobody’s life anyway – and the burden of proof lies on the people who decided to imprison a whole population, not on the people who think it was a bad idea
5) masks are stupid, clearly don’t help and are probably bad for you. And possibly just a symbol of oppression.

I think that’s roughly what we agree on. Over to you.

38509 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to matt, 5, #326 of 1687 🔗

Well done matt, I admire your patience with this twerp. I don’t really think it has an informed opinion on anything on your list, It’s obvious that it infests this site purely to be antagonistic. Best way to deal with it is to not respond to any of its ‘posts’

38516 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 4, #327 of 1687 🔗

You are, of course, right. And as Annie says, I should take myself off to fight zombies elsewhere, but today I want a fight and I’m curious to see if he has the brains or the guts to engage, rather than slinging big-boy sweary words and insults.

38534 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to matt, 3, #328 of 1687 🔗

He clearly doesn’t. He hasn’t left one coherent or intelligent response. He obviously thinks he’s being clever when in fact he lacks even a modicum of self-awareness

38536 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 1, #329 of 1687 🔗

Well, if nothing else, it seems to have made him go away for now. I’ll post it again tomorrow if he comes back.

38547 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gary, replying to matt, 2, #330 of 1687 🔗

Always worth trying to bring them round to our side, that’s what we’re here to do afterall. Shame there couldn’t be a mroe neutral sounding website than “lockdown sceptics”, maybe “lockdown analysers”, specifically set up so that the wider public can be lured in by a promise of neutrality and then gently converted to our way of thinking, a drip feed of antilockdown arguments.

38813 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sceptique, replying to Gary, 2, #331 of 1687 🔗

Is he a reincarnation of Annoymous who seems to have disappeared?

39008 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, 1, #332 of 1687 🔗

The point of trolling is to get people to respond. The result is yards and yards of usually insignificant and pointless arguing that clutters up the comments and makes scrolling though them much more tedious later on.

Hence the advice: Don’t feed the troll!

39020 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #333 of 1687 🔗

Yes. I can’t believe the amount of time and energy this ‘bot’ has wasted on here.

39218 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #334 of 1687 🔗

I think it looks like Twitter would be the best place to contact him.

38563 ▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 16, #335 of 1687 🔗

Very well put.

I’ll add a couple of points:

GrantM has made multiple references to the bullying etc of mask wearers (especially old ladies). Not sure what evidence there is of that. The reality is that people who do NOT wish to wear a mask and find it unnecessary are the ones being bullied or threatened with force of law (on public transport) or exclusion (as customers) or dismissal (as employees) if they do not comply. The PM stated quite clearly that the main reason to adopt mask wearing was to make people feel better. I don’t feel any desire to bully mask wearers. I feel sad that they feel the need to wear them, and angry that I am forced to, not because it helps but to make it look like our useless government knows what they are doing.

GrantM also replied to a post regarding Sweden, in which he mentioned the second wave. I wasn’t clear exactly what point was being made as it was a jumble of words, but my understanding of Sweden’s position is as follows: The virus cannot be stopped. Waiting for a vaccine is a fool’s errand. So the only viable strategy is to live with it over the long term, by protecting the vulnerable and taking such measures as are necessary to prevent the health service being overwhelmed. Any measures taken must be sustainable over the long term (more or less forever) because the virus isn’t going away. That’s it. Sweden’s position does NOT rely on there not being a second wave, neither does it rely on the virus being way less dangerous than originally thought. Those considerations are peripheral. It’s the only coherent, realistic approach.

38590 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to Julian, 14, #336 of 1687 🔗

Please remember though, that the way to protect the vulnerable is to visit them often, hug them and be affectionate. Because the best protection is the will to live.

38597 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to BJJ, 19, #337 of 1687 🔗

My neighbour’s mother died last week in her care home. She was in her nineties. I think it’s fair to say that my neighbours have been on the zealot side of the argument, but I bumped into her (the neighbour) today as we were both getting into our cars and she said “in some ways she was a Covid death, because what had kept her going was her fighting spirit and that went when she wasn’t allowed to see us all.”

Anecdote, not data, but what kind of society isolates the old and vulnerable away from their loved ones, just so they don’t catch the ‘flu?

38659 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 12, #338 of 1687 🔗

A poisoned society.

38617 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 4, #339 of 1687 🔗

On Sweden, where I live – Tegnell says, as you say, that any measures taken must be sustainable in the long term. The population here are for the most part on board with the measures so far taken, however, it will be interesting to see how things develop here. Our sixth forms and universities will be open again in the autumn, but I do not think that gatherings over 50 people not being allowed is sustainable indefinitely…

38629 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 3, #340 of 1687 🔗

Honestly, I’m moving to Sweden.

38566 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to matt, 2, #341 of 1687 🔗

Yep, pretty much sums it up!

39016 ▶▶ chris c, replying to matt, #342 of 1687 🔗

Yes excellent summary

38489 John P, 1, #343 of 1687 🔗

“far right” is a smear.

Does Toby Young identify as “far right”? No.

Only he has the right to define his identity.

38508 grammarschoolman, 2, #344 of 1687 🔗

Goebbels was more talented.

38530 RDawg, 3, #345 of 1687 🔗

On the front page of “Scram News”? Toby’s career is over now. With its huge readership the game is up.

38545 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #346 of 1687 🔗

Is God punishing Matt Hancock by receding his hairline?

38556 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #347 of 1687 🔗

If so then God is being incredibly forgiving.

38557 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #348 of 1687 🔗

I think that’s just the beginning. If there was a God, Hancock would be inflicted with ailments similar to what’s in the Bible.

38612 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #349 of 1687 🔗

His time will come.

38671 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #350 of 1687 🔗

One hopes so. I think we should resurrect the Code of Hammurabi on him.

38741 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #351 of 1687 🔗

Mental derangement? Narcissism? Hysteria? Paranoia? Hallucinations?

38759 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, #352 of 1687 🔗

Leprosy, boils, death of the first born, the travails of Job…..

39009 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #353 of 1687 🔗

He has them in spades.

38562 ▶▶ John P, replying to Tom Blackburn, #354 of 1687 🔗

He might be rewarding him. Have you seen me and Toby?

Unfortunately, the receding hairline, in his case is unlikely to be accompanied by an advancement in cognitive ability.

38595 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to John P, 1, #355 of 1687 🔗

I’m in the baldy club too John. Matt looks like the sort that would wear a syrup

38596 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tom Blackburn, #356 of 1687 🔗

It only happens to the best people Tom. I agree, Hancock’s definitely a syrup man.

38634 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #357 of 1687 🔗

Thought you were talking about me for a second. I have a fine head of hair, thanks!

38555 IanE, 1, #358 of 1687 🔗

Looks like we are unanimous on that at least.

38565 PD, replying to PD, 19, #359 of 1687 🔗

Without wishing to sound too conspiratorial…
There is no justifiable medical reason to shut Leicester, are the government just being incompetent and over-cautious or is this something else?

i am concerned that the economy is being crashed deliberately to bring about social, political and economic regime change.

Does this feel like year zero?
Free money is being thrown around to keep folk quiet for the time being, but what will happen come October?
Have the culture wars been definitively lost? We are increasingly made to fear expressing ourselves freely. Common sense is seen as poisonous and discriminatory.
Have the tech firms got a solution in mind? Is this why they are so vociferous in their support for defunding the police?
Is this recently installed track and trace software the ultimate solution to crime?
Isolation makes you think strange things and when all your pals soak up the bollocks in the Guardian it would be good to get some ideas!?!?.

38570 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to PD, 8, #360 of 1687 🔗

i wouldn’t credit the goverment with much more than incompetence

38577 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Major Panic, 16, #361 of 1687 🔗

After listening to Boris’s speech earlier today – or at least some of it as I could only take so much – I tend to agree with you. That said, the dreaded cocktail of arrogance and ignorance so often on display with our elites can be interpreted as incompetence or just downright evil. It is a close call!

38579 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #362 of 1687 🔗

incompetent and evil

38592 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 2, #363 of 1687 🔗

I was just thinking that it could credibly be both.

38580 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Major Panic, 24, #364 of 1687 🔗

I think the Leicester lockdown has clearly been deliberately manufactured, possibly just to show it could be done.

I have been reminded of that famous quote from 1984: “One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power .”

38591 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, 1, #365 of 1687 🔗

That’s rather naive.

38678 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, 2, #366 of 1687 🔗

I’m far from convinced they’re even that good, Major P!

38574 ▶▶ matt, replying to PD, 37, #367 of 1687 🔗

Ahem.

I did this many times on yesterday’s page, but…

It’s the most transparent, manufactured lie. Counted infections have been driven up by driving up testing. Nowhere else in the country are we testing asymptomatic under 18s, but apparently we have been in Leicester.

This is a despicable attempt to 1) demonstrate (spuriously) that they have a grip on where the infection is, to make people feel safe; 2) demonstrate that local lockdowns are possible, to make people feel safe in the rest of the country and to demonstrate their authority and 3) to show that lockdown is an effective strategy.

In short, they don’t want to be found out and the cowardly, deceitful bastards have chosen the people of Leicester to suffer for the sake of their reputations and egos.

38610 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 3, #368 of 1687 🔗

I think the Leicester thing is a show of strength.

38661 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #369 of 1687 🔗

It is. Is a demonstration of authority it’s nothing else. There is nothing behind it except a need to show that it can and should happen. Where you and I disagree is on the basic motives. Unfortunately, I now think that my opinion makes these people even worse than your opinion does. At least in your opinion they’re trying to be constructive, even if the plan is deplorable.

39011 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 1, #370 of 1687 🔗

How did I give you the impression I think they’re trying to be constructive?

39139 ▶▶▶ Jodie S, replying to matt, #371 of 1687 🔗

I agree, I think Leicester is effectively a mask for the country – to get that 37% who think we’re ‘opening up too quickly’ out from hiding under their beds: ‘Look! We’re letting you go to the pub and the hairdressers, but if there’s the tiniest hint of danger to your good selves *we’re on it*.’ It simultaneously acts as a sop to the wets, makes the government look in control of the situation, and prolongs the myth. Win. Win. Win.

38604 ▶▶ Bella, replying to PD, 14, #372 of 1687 🔗

I know there’s roughly two schools of thought on here. Conspiracy or incompetence. I’m mostly in the first school, but opportunistic conspiracy – ‘we’ve started, let’s see how far we can go’ .It’s really clear that they don’t have the interests of the population at large to heart, so what is their motivation? I think it’s an exercise in social control and I think they’re going to see how far they can take it. They must be pretty pleased up until now with the general compliance. Think of all the basic freedoms that have been taken away from you – free association mostly (and I’m not suggesting we shouldn’t be mindful of viral spread, but like in Sweden.) I think people are quite reticent about crying ‘conspiracy’ for fear of being gullible. I tell you what’s gullible: that the whole country has been had..

38633 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Bella, 4, #373 of 1687 🔗

…has been had, by a Conservative government. How disappointing

38628 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to PD, 2, #374 of 1687 🔗

‘Regime change’ Frightening thing is this is under a ‘Conservative’ government

38636 ▶▶▶ PD, replying to T. Prince, 3, #375 of 1687 🔗

This isn’t happening just here though, however we have been slower than most to ease lockdown restrictions. All across the globe there will be a sea of empty order books. The construction of infrastructure projects can’t replace all this lost trade and tax revenue.

39015 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PD, 1, #376 of 1687 🔗

Build our way out of recession doesn’t sound very convincing.

38698 ▶▶ Stephen McMurray, replying to PD, 2, #377 of 1687 🔗

It is being done to show you who is boss (Hancock thinks it him but its’ really Bill Gates), It is designed to divide and conquer. They know a total nationwide lockdown would not be accepted again so they will do it bit by bit and there will be less overall resistance. I suspect they will try to make masks wearing compulsory in Leicester only and then they will do it in the next manufactured hotspot until most of the nation will be muzzled.

Clealry this has nothing to do with curbing a virus but a psy op designed to control and change society and turn us all into compliant robots, whilst dividing one town from another

38791 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to PD, 3, #378 of 1687 🔗

Watch UK colomn news for ideas as to what is going on behind the curtain.

38820 ▶▶ Sceptique, replying to PD, 2, #379 of 1687 🔗

Could be orchestrated to hide the real economic crash that’s been going on for a while behind the scenes. QE has been used for years to prop up world economies and the ECB was on the brink of collapse anyway. Stock market is just speculative money. Useful excuse to blame the ‘virus’.

38882 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to PD, 1, #380 of 1687 🔗

BLM could be useful now . The Government is unfairly targeting a city, is it because of their skin colour?

39027 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to PD, #381 of 1687 🔗

Incompetent is my guess but they could be following an agenda by our favourite billionaire.

38568 John P, replying to John P, #382 of 1687 🔗

Something we can agree on Grant.

38576 ▶▶ GrantM, replying to John P, #383 of 1687 🔗

That wasnt me. Someone is using my username

38578 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to GrantM, #384 of 1687 🔗

So how do I tell which is the real you and which is the fake you?

38584 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 1, #385 of 1687 🔗

I’m the real one and I hate old ladies, which is why I want them to wear masks without anybody saying it’s a bad idea

38586 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, #386 of 1687 🔗

That’s okay then.

38587 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to matt, 3, #387 of 1687 🔗

I have no problem with elderly women wearing masks. I wear a mask myself sometimes to appease others. My problem is with stupid young lockdown zealots beating them to a bloody pulp for accidentally coming within five feet at Walmart. Not accusing you of this. But a number of lock-down supporters have turned vicious from hysteria.

38607 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Rachel, 4, #388 of 1687 🔗

Appeasing others is the beginning of the slippery slope. (Or maybe the middle. But it’s still a slope and it’s still downhill into the depths of dystopia.)

38594 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 2, #389 of 1687 🔗

You don’t. It’s a new troll tactic.

38583 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to GrantM, 1, #390 of 1687 🔗

Well, I did wonder. The remark was eminently sensible.

38588 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to GrantM, #391 of 1687 🔗

is this you?

39039 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to GrantM, #392 of 1687 🔗

They all say that …

38589 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #393 of 1687 🔗

21 new confirmed new cases of covid in the whole of Yorkshire over the last 24 hours.
Yorkshire is huge and while much of it is rural, the rest is very densely populated with a lot of small Victorian terrace houses.

38593 ▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #394 of 1687 🔗

I think you perhaps ought to say what is meant by “Yorkshire” in this case.

38598 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 3, #395 of 1687 🔗

Confirmed cases of coronavirus in Yorkshire in the last 24 hours:


  • Barnsley – was 1,087 now 1,088
  • Bradford – was 1,446 now 1,452
  • Calderdale – still 303
  • Doncaster – was 949 now 950
  • East Riding of Yorkshire – still 965
  • Hull – still 802
  • Kirklees – was 800 now 801
  • Leeds – was 1,902 now 1,903
  • North Yorkshire – was 1,352 now 1,353
  • Rotherham – was 1,073 now 1,079
  • Sheffield – was 2,679 now 2,683
  • Wakefield – still 790
  • York – still 463
38602 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #396 of 1687 🔗

Note, It doesn’t say when they started counting!

38608 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, #397 of 1687 🔗

That seems to cover most of the old Yorkshire.

Leicester the city is showing an increase of 3 cases today, and Leicestershire 0.

I think you have to look at the “pillar 1”, and “pillar 2” data. This, I think is the pillar 1 data for Leicestershire (including the city).

It looks like you have the “pillar 1” data for Yorkshire.

39012 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 1, #398 of 1687 🔗

“Pillar2” is obviously the novel aspect of the week. The traumatised need a new hook every now and again. Lest their brains explode.

39056 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, #399 of 1687 🔗
38676 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #400 of 1687 🔗

I live in Yorkshire. I have it on good authority that hardly anybody is being tested.

Everyone round here knows it’s bullshit.

38677 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, #401 of 1687 🔗

Also Cheezilla we have a few pretty big cities. Most notably Leeds which which was a bit of a hotspot at the beginning but quickly turned into a nothingburger.

38684 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 1, #402 of 1687 🔗

Sheffield looks like the most hit area. Which is very interesting seeing as it’s one of the biggest cities with one of the lowest BAME contingent, and also one of the most affluent areas in Yorkshire.

I’d expect Bradford and Hull figures to be WAY higher for e.g.

39059 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 1, #403 of 1687 🔗

I know it’s all bs. I was looking to see which city might be the next target for HMG’s campaign of terror. Doncaster looking pretty safe today.

39061 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #404 of 1687 🔗

They were the first place to get ‘significant numbers’ of cases back in March apparently. Looks like they’re sticking to the playbook pretty closely.

38599 jamesthemacuser, replying to jamesthemacuser, 1, #405 of 1687 🔗

On the Island of the failed cock-up app a local shop has installed…. wait for it “ thermal imaging airport style scanner, a UV sterilisation box for when customers handle jewellery and a steam cleaner for clothing”…. Seems to like is Union Jack masks too. Love the bit it says “ it’s expensive”, no shit, just stop wasting your time, I will be boycotting his shop….

More at

https://www.iwradio.co.uk/news/isle-of-wight-news/thermal-imaging-and-uv-technology-cowes-business-goes/

39066 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to jamesthemacuser, #406 of 1687 🔗

it will make the sound if you’ve passed or not.

So we have to pass a test now before we’re allowed to go shopping? I’m sure there will be plenty of sheep looking for a cheap thrill when they venture outside.
Not sure I hope it will pay off or not……

38600 T. Prince, 1, #407 of 1687 🔗

Racist.

38601 Doctor Y, replying to Doctor Y, 66, #408 of 1687 🔗

If, theoretically, an NHS hospital consultant from Leicester, wished to anonymously speak out, with current hospital bed data from the aforementioned city, what would be the best way to do that?

My colleagues are angry, very angry. We know that the population is being blamed for breaking the rules. We know that they mostly didn’t. They are poor, mostly BAME and live in overcrowded conditions. They have also been going out to work in predominantly minimum wage (keyworker) roles.
Our city is being destroyed. Our nation is being lied to. We have 0.1% of the population having a positive test in a 3 week period with no statistically significant increase in hospital admissions or deaths.
They re-closed our schools. Total bastards.

38605 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Doctor Y, 5, #409 of 1687 🔗

Maybe contact Simon Dolan?

Anyone here know how to contact him while preserving anonymity?

38616 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #410 of 1687 🔗

If Simon Dolan’s case isn’t ready by now, then he’s doomed to failure.

38618 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to matt, 2, #411 of 1687 🔗

It goes to court in 2 days

38632 ▶▶▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to Jonathan Castro, -36, #412 of 1687 🔗

And its going to fail. Just like this site of the same 50 people who yell and bully people for wearing face masks and treat it like it will make the lockdown last forever

38637 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to GrantM, 5, #413 of 1687 🔗

Grant, you are the only bully on here.

38640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to GrantM, 6, #414 of 1687 🔗

Who is yelling and bullying? Where? When?

It is the non mask wearers that are yelled at or threatened with arrest

38643 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, 7, #415 of 1687 🔗

I believe in free speech Julian, but this person is clearly not interested in having a conversation. He’s just being disruptive for the sake of it. It might be best to ignore him.

38641 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to GrantM, 5, #416 of 1687 🔗

Grant – I’ve given you a chance and your own thread. Have at it. Otherwise I, for one, will know you’re just an ignorant, mouthy twat.

38663 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to GrantM, 1, #417 of 1687 🔗

put a plastic bag over your head mate 😁 👍🏻

38666 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nowhereman, replying to GrantM, 3, #418 of 1687 🔗

Scared of the truth coming out are you Grant? Are you claiming that the reports from the ground about there being almost no new illnesses due to Cov-19 are false? I’ve no idea how many are reading this, but your comment enraged me, so count me as one of the 50. I’m in….

38668 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nowhereman, replying to nowhereman, 4, #419 of 1687 🔗

Oh yes, and due to your inflammatory comment Grant, I will definitely chip in to any legal proceedings wrt Leicester. Thanks for the motivation…

38669 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to GrantM, 2, #420 of 1687 🔗

Another cerebral response eh Grant? Why don’t you go and drag your knuckles off to somewhere else?

39068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to T. Prince, #421 of 1687 🔗

Stop feeding the bloody troll!!!

38639 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jonathan Castro, #422 of 1687 🔗

Yes. And if the case isn’t ready it never will be.

38673 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #423 of 1687 🔗

I did via Twitter. My account wasn’t under my actual name.

38609 ▶▶ matt, replying to Doctor Y, 21, #424 of 1687 🔗

I would suggest emailing Toby at the link above the line, contacting Peter Hitchens and writing a letter to the editor of the Spectator. I wouldn’t bother writing to any of the major newspapers, except maybe the telegraph. Contact the mayor, who seems sensible, but who seems to have been nobbled in the last 24 hours. Ignore your MPs, who are clearly spineless idiots. Write to Hancock, because irritating Hancock is always a good thing. If you can raise the funds between you (and frankly, I’d be prepared to chip in) and if they’ll publish it, an open letter in one or more of the dailies would be wonderful.

38615 ▶▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to matt, 10, #425 of 1687 🔗

I’d agree with all of this (and would contribute too). Does anyone nb the name of the female journalist who has done a couple of good pieces on Newsnight?? If we can get the name, would be good to add to the list.
This needs to be heard…thank you for posting here.

38631 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 4, #426 of 1687 🔗

It’s Deborah Cohen.

She’s a medic as well, apparently.

38652 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to John P, 3, #427 of 1687 🔗
38653 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #428 of 1687 🔗

That’s the one.

38709 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 2, #429 of 1687 🔗

Not a practising doctor…I think a PhD in medical-related matters. Deborah Cohen is about the only BBC journo who has done a proper journalistic job during the pandemic…actually adding to our sum of knowledge at times.

39071 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #430 of 1687 🔗

Wasn’t she editor of the BMJ once upon a time? She might know the right contacts etc. Worth a shot anyway.

38655 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 8, #431 of 1687 🔗

Happy to chip in.
As you say, bastards.

39004 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 1, #432 of 1687 🔗

Always up for chips !

Err, chipping in. 🙂

38626 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Doctor Y, 7, #433 of 1687 🔗

Please do speak out if you can, someone needs to!

38627 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Doctor Y, 9, #434 of 1687 🔗

Please do speak out, collectively, as professionals caring for the future of their city and its people. I posted this yesterday, but here it is again, from Dr Ron Paul on a similar situation in Texas that prompted consultants across four hospitals in Houston to go public:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ron-paul-media-lying-about-second-wave

38648 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Doctor Y, 6, #435 of 1687 🔗

Maybe contact Simon Dolan? Or I believe there is a freelance journalist called Anna Brees who you could contact… or maybe ask Toby for advice? Toby always puts a link to his email address in these updates.

38696 ▶▶▶ Stephen McMurray, replying to Carrie, 3, #436 of 1687 🔗

contact uk Column and try the local news papers who, I would imagine, are slightly more concerned with their local citizens than the national ones who are just propaganda mouthpieces

38672 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Doctor Y, 4, #437 of 1687 🔗

I’d suggest emailing Toby directly – no doubt he will be able to put you in touch with some very nice meedja types who will take you on as an anon source 🙂
Failing that I’m sure he’d write up your statement and publish it on here.

38697 ▶▶ Hector Drummond, replying to Doctor Y, 12, #438 of 1687 🔗

You could send it to me for publication in Hector Drummond Magazine.

38736 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Doctor Y, 3, #439 of 1687 🔗

Seconded contact UK Column. They would be of excellent help to you in the first instance.

Your situation deserves more coverage than one outlet imo.

39031 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Doctor Y, #440 of 1687 🔗

Via UK Column?

This website and we pass it on via e-mail contacts?

Simon Dolan.

David Icke.

State of the Nation.

Natural News.

X22 report.

Corbett Report.

Hector Drummond.

Dr Malcolm Kendrick.

Try 82.221.129.208 – Jim might post it. Contact via a gmail account address given for donations.

39032 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #441 of 1687 🔗

Off-guardian.

39046 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #442 of 1687 🔗

Ooh, and Vernon Coleman !

39149 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #443 of 1687 🔗

Forgot swiss propaganda research

39595 ▶▶ Toby Young, replying to Doctor Y, #444 of 1687 🔗

Email me at lockdownsceptics@gmail.org and I can sort you out.

38657 Winston Smith, 2, #445 of 1687 🔗

put a plastic bag on your head mate 👍🏻 👍🏻 😁

38665 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #446 of 1687 🔗

I posted the following on yesterday’s comments.
However, having joined the debate this evening about the motives for the Leicester lockdown, I thought it is as good a proof as any that they know exactly what they’re doing – and it isn’t about a virus:

The Grad, quoting Matt Wankock:

We have sent in a lot of extra testing into Leicester over the last 10 days or so and one of the things we have found is that there are under-18s who have tested positive and therefore, because children can transmit the disease – even though they are highly unlikely to get ill from the disease – we think the safest thing to do is close the schools.

The reason I said what I did last night about Leicester is that it is an unusually high incidence in children in Leicester.

But insisted it was still safe for children to go to school.

Right across the country – including in Leicester – it is safe for your child to go to school and in the rest of the country, where the number of cases is so much lower, then it is safe for the community.

That is why we have taken the decisions that we have on schools – it’s to protect against the transmission in Leicester.

How can people swallow such self-contradictory bs whole?

38675 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #447 of 1687 🔗

I made my views on this clear yesterday, Cheez, but honestly I despair. It takes _almost_ not critical reasoning at all to see through this rubbish, and yet…

38753 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #448 of 1687 🔗

Presumably, though, the schools. closure is only advisory – as the govt assured Simmon Dolan’s lawyers a while back?

39090 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #449 of 1687 🔗

They’ve been told to close and clearly aren’t contesting it.
This is what we’re up against (quoted by the beeb):

Dr Bharat Pankhania, a former consultant in communicable disease control at Public Health England, told BBC Radio 4 the situation in Leicester was “a reflection of a premature lifting of lockdown measures” which were “not strict enough in any case”.

Where on earth do they find them?!

If they spent more time doing proper research and less time looking for idiots to quote, we’d all be better off.

38667 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #450 of 1687 🔗

Scram News – Not perhaps the most solid source of balanced reporting:
“About Us/
Launching from a basement in east London in May 2019, we set out to campaign and cover news from an anti-Brexit, progressive standpoint while taking on the raging forces of right-wing populism at home and abroad.
Since then Scram’s finances have come under significant pressure and the difficult decision has been made to close our doors for the time being from 1st June 2020.”

38993 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #451 of 1687 🔗

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 You couldn’t make that up. A far-left “woke” unemployed millennial living in their mum’s basement.

38670 swedenborg, 6, #452 of 1687 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1824&v=dRYEBHDyR3Y&feature=emb_logo
New long interview video with Prof John Lee with his usual common sense view about Covid-19

38674 John P, replying to John P, 21, #453 of 1687 🔗

I just found this comment on twitter. It is a reply to Peter Hitchens regarding Leicester:

“I live in Leicester. Basically we locked down for 2 weeks because pillar 2 testing made up 10% of all the UK cases for the past rolling 7 days. Pillar 2 tests from the 4 new mobile test units which people have been swarming to. These could be Asymptomatic!!”

The chap who wrote it Inderpal Rakhra has been promoting this site on his twitter feed.

Good man!

38679 ▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 13, #454 of 1687 🔗

Don’t have a test. Protect your community. Screw Hancock.

38680 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 11, #455 of 1687 🔗

Right now I could be suffering pretty bad covid type symptoms and I STILL wouldn’t get a test. Fuck them.

38683 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Farinances, 6, #456 of 1687 🔗

If you’re bad enough to go to hospital, they’ll test you anyway. In the meantime, stay in bed and drink lemsip.

38685 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 11, #457 of 1687 🔗

Another three phrase slogan:
Stay home. Drink Lemsip. Screw Hancock.

I mean, honestly, I don’t know why Cummings gets so much credit. I’m a communications genius. And it’s not even that difficult!

38694 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 5, #458 of 1687 🔗

matt, I think the first two of those three phrases might be okay, but as for the third … I would imagine that the women on here would rather go ten rounds with the virus!

38695 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to John P, 5, #459 of 1687 🔗

I dunno. I’d quite like to screw him….. with a chainsaw

38770 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Farinances, 2, #460 of 1687 🔗

For some reason I keep imagining red-hot pokers. Childhood memories of wood-fires being prodded by said poker?

39094 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 2, #461 of 1687 🔗

Form queue here …..

38711 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 4, #462 of 1687 🔗

How about:
Stay home. Drink lemsip. Screw Hancock (figuratively).
?

38764 ▶▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to matt, 2, #463 of 1687 🔗

Other remedies are available 😂 😂 😂 😂

38807 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to matt, 2, #464 of 1687 🔗

Or as Toby Young suggests perhaps ease up on the beer and vindaloo that probably explain most of the ever lengthening list of symptoms.

39096 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #465 of 1687 🔗

Spoilsport!

39093 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #466 of 1687 🔗

Hig dose vitamin C would be better.

38681 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 1, #467 of 1687 🔗

Well, hopefully people will twig and stop having themselves tested.

38686 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to John P, 4, #468 of 1687 🔗

‘Leicester city council’s public health department only received those figures last Thursday. They could not compare with places elsewhere because those pillar 2 figures are only made available to local officials in their own local authority area provided they have signed the Data Protection Act. ‘ This sounds bizarre. It’s not like the DPA is the Official Secrets Act.

38692 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bruno, 5, #470 of 1687 🔗

I think the problem then is that they didn’t know the pillar 2 figures for the virus were unusually high, and as it was just people testing positive, and not people who were ill, they possibly didn’t worry about it.

From what I can make out, many of those tested are kids, who are not going to be made ill by the virus, and who cannot pass it on if they are asymptomatic.

There’s still a lot of unknowns with all this. I remain deeply suspicious about the figures being used to justify the local lockdown, but the bottom line is that covid19 (the illness) is not rampant in Leicester.

38702 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 10, #471 of 1687 🔗

If you’re testing asymptomatic kids – as we’re doing nowhere else in the country – you are going to find more infections.

First postscript – none of those infections will be the slightest bit relevant to the disease

Second postscript- you now know how to manipulate the public into the next panic.

This must. Not. Stand.

38716 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to matt, 1, #472 of 1687 🔗

So why were the 4 drive in test sites set up from 2 June in a swathe running from Birsthall Park and Ride, through North Evington, Spinney and Victoria Parks, i. e. right through where all the mosques are, if the council didn’t know where the cases were? the council/ health director knew there was a spike on 24 June, see council’s Twitter :
https://mobile.twitter.com/Leicester_News/status/1275760676800258051?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3ALeicester_News%7Ctwcon%5Etimelinechrome&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.leicester.gov.uk%2Fyour-council%2Fcoronavirus%2F
obviously, after all the legitimate concern about BAME susceptibility, people living near the test sites are going to flock to them. They were told to book, and not to go unless they had symptoms, but who could blame people being anxious and just wanting to check?
Bet you could replicate these results in any poorer part of an English manufacturing city, especially with a large BAME population, if you set up a load of test centres bang in the middle!

38760 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bruno, 8, #473 of 1687 🔗

That’s mostly my point. You could manufacture this spike pretty much anywhere in the country. I’m not implying that anyone was forced to have a test, just that deliberately driving up test numbers will deliberately drive up infection numbers and will artificially allow you to claim to justify a local lockdown.

39038 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to matt, #474 of 1687 🔗

Nailed it!

39115 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, #475 of 1687 🔗

which is why they are doing this just before Simon Dolan’s judicial review – to justify the lockdown..

39098 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, #476 of 1687 🔗

Bradford has the next highest increase, according to the pillar 2 results released today.

They seem to be walking right into a trap:

https://www.bradford.gov.uk/browse-all-news/press-releases/bradford-district-s-new-walk-in-covid-19-testing-centre-opens-tomorrow-this-is-how-it-will-work/

This seems to be the work of the council, not the government. Ididots!

38872 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to John P, 3, #477 of 1687 🔗

Lesson learned: Stay away from any testing.

Testing results also not that reliable, many false positives

38919 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Victoria, 3, #478 of 1687 🔗

The only hard and fast way to starve this of oxygen is for everyone to refuse testing.
They could force it on people in hospital and possibly care homes but everyone else?
Everyone just needs to act normal as far as possible. Acting normal is not shitting yourself and begging to be tested every time you sneeze. (It’s also, apparently, not following ‘government advice’ which basically seeks to pathologise us all back to the C16)

39099 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #479 of 1687 🔗

If only the MSM would trumpet your advice and not the pernicious bollox they spew out daily.

39092 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, #480 of 1687 🔗

There’s no way I’d volunteer for a test!

38682 annie, replying to annie, 17, #481 of 1687 🔗

I once heard an extract from a wartime radio broadcast by J. B. Priestley, about living under Nazi occupation. He said one thing was certain: the one person in your community that everybody despised, the rancorous nonentity, the nasty, cowardly bully, the mean-spirited, talentless, brainless nobody, forever envying better people than himself and using underhand tactics to try to bring them down, would be ferreted out by the conquerors and put in authority over the rest, with unlimited power to take out his own inferiority on everybody around him.

Well, here we are, conquered and occupied, and Priestley’s little Hitlers lord it over us in every big store, on every council, in every hospital, everywhere.
But for how long?
Not very long, I’d say. And at least we now know who these poisonous little people are.

38708 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to annie, 4, #482 of 1687 🔗

I think Primo Levi wrote that in the death camps during WW2 there were people among the prisoner population who relished and thrived in those conditions – people who would have found survival very difficult in normal society. There’s no doubt that the lockdown has provided opportunities for such people to come to the fore.

38959 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 1, #483 of 1687 🔗

We need to remember the scene in ‘Ivan Denisovich’ where the trustee/guard/snitch bloke is faced down by the gang with their big, heavy, stone working tools. 🙂

38687 Dave #KBF, 8, #484 of 1687 🔗

So Leicester City and surrounding areas are in lockdown but Premier League football and horse racing go ahead, I know this is behind closed doors, but it just looks like money speaks.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2020/06/30/leicester-lockdown-revolt-racecourse-covid-spike-citys-premier/

If the area is such a risk, why not stop everything?

38699 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 7, #485 of 1687 🔗

The UK Column news had a very interesting piece yesterday. Apparently the number of deaths of babies in America has plummeted during lcokdown. The suggested reason – vaccinations have been vastly curtailed. Now, here is what I think may happen. As vaccination rates go up as lockdown is eased, the infant mortality rate will go up but guess what will be blamed – covid. So the manufactured fake second wave will be portrayed as more deadly because it kills babies. Killing the elderly was one thing but if babies are going to be said to be dying us skeptics will have a very hard time trying to convince anyone that lockdown is poitless and dangerous. We will be viewed as the spawn of satan, They will simply keep this going until the time when the real force behind all this – Bill Gates – get his mandatory vaccines injected into us all.

38705 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Stephen McMurray, #486 of 1687 🔗

Interesting! Do you have a link? I can’t find the story on the website.

38714 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 1, #487 of 1687 🔗

Here.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/lessons-from-the-lockdown-why-are-so-many-fewer-children-dying/

Graph relating to infants is well down the page. It is striking.

38722 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 7, #488 of 1687 🔗

Wow! Thanks for that link.

That is quite incredible:

“Virtually the entire change came from infants. Somehow, the changing pattern of American life during the lockdowns has been saving the lives of hundreds of infants, over 200 per week.”

and

“One very clear change that has received publicity is that public health officials are bemoaning the sharp decline in infant vaccinations as parents are not taking their infants into pediatric offices for their regular well‐baby checks.”

BTW I really respect what Robert Kennedy Junior is doing for children’s health via his Children’s Health Defense organisation. He could have been just another Kennedy good timer but he’s really making a stand as his father did against the American Mafia.

38726 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 4, #489 of 1687 🔗

I agree. It’s good to get a listen Robert Kennedy Jr talking about vaccination programmes. He is courageous.

39150 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to OKUK, #490 of 1687 🔗

Also read on the same website about vaccines in India, Kenya etc

39113 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Stephen McMurray, #491 of 1687 🔗

We need to get this message out *now*, before the lockdown is eased too much and rates go up..

38700 nfw, replying to nfw, 1, #492 of 1687 🔗

ONS Says All-Cause Deaths Now Below Five-Year Average
I wonder if that’s because less people are going into hospitals? If you’re sick and want to die, go to a hospital.

38703 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to nfw, 5, #493 of 1687 🔗

Maybe! The famous Israeli Doctors’ strike of the 1960s saw a huge reduction in deaths! 🙂

But more seriously, it’s just the pandemic following its natural course.

What struck me was how the UK media feel they have to cloak this extremely good news in dark hints and threats, that the monster is not yet dead and may rise up and consume us all if we do not remain resolutely downbeat in all aspects of our lives.

38704 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to OKUK, 1, #494 of 1687 🔗

Yep. BBC this morning…

“Flu virus with ‘Pandemic Potential’ found in China” The circus continues…

38742 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to T. Prince, 1, #495 of 1687 🔗

Better start stockpiling toilet roll now then.

38707 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to OKUK, 1, #496 of 1687 🔗

The monster is not real.

39041 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to OKUK, 2, #497 of 1687 🔗

German doctors have gone on strike twice in the 20th century that I know of – same thing reported, a big drop in deaths.

38706 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #498 of 1687 🔗

Latenight thoughts

Wat Tyler is a name from the past we could do with about now.

Is it an accepted principle that groups of concerned people coming together for a common cause is the way forward?

An amorphus mass with the spirit of Wat and our ancestors, they organised well without tech. Remarkable what human spirit is.

38713 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 3, #499 of 1687 🔗

Hang on…didn’t it all end rather badly for Wat Tyler and his Peasants Lives Matter movement?

38720 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, #500 of 1687 🔗

Peasant lives did matter! History is written by the winners, its fair to say the king Stephen (?) the young one about greta’s age come to think… well anyway Wat was double-crossed it appears. There is true inspiration in the events.

38728 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 2, #501 of 1687 🔗

Yes I think he was invited to a parley…when you’re leading a peasants’ revolt and a noble invites you to a parley you should be more circumspect. 🙂

38740 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, #502 of 1687 🔗

There you go.. inspiring you already!

38752 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 1, #503 of 1687 🔗

Richard II.

38782 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, #504 of 1687 🔗

Thanks I didn’t realise there had been 11 Richards here did tgey keep coming from! Corrected for the last time on that king..

38725 ▶▶▶ Gary, replying to OKUK, 2, #505 of 1687 🔗

Oddly enough, what really helped medieval peasants, those who survived it anyway, was the plague. Because after it there were a lot less peasants, and the high demand for those who remained let them have a bit more say in how they would be worked and who for.

38710 Ben Jackson, replying to Ben Jackson, 6, #506 of 1687 🔗

Toby, please take a look into the matter of shadow banning. As a for instance being a subscriber to your London Calling podcast on Apple I have recently found that new episodes fail to appear on my feed and instead new episodes have to be searched each week. I think this Orwellian tactic is being employed far more widely than is currently appreciated and is very hard to detect, unlike the outright censoring of spotlight individuals and inconvenient content on YouTube, Facebook & Twitter. This is the most insidious assault on free speech and is almost impossible to verify. No doubt shadow bans come in a variety of forms on various platforms and the power of this tool may account for why many feel so isolated in their suspicions of lockdown and coronanoia. It is even more powerful when you consider the amount of social contact between friends that has been denied our the past 100 days leaving a gaping void that would normally be filled by meeting up for a coffee or a few pints to quietly put the world to rights. Thank you for all your tireless work on Lockdownseptics it has provided much solace and sanity in these difficult and worrisome times.

38952 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ben Jackson, #507 of 1687 🔗

Good point.

My work email filter has recently started to send Jon Rappoport’s excellent emails to the Junk folder.

39043 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ben Jackson, #508 of 1687 🔗

It is a serious problem and not just on Toby’s sites but worldwide.

Try using a VPN (like Hotspot Shield or similar) and private browsing mode and clear your browser caches frequently and you will have a better chance of finding what you need.

Use a more independent browser and not one from google or microsoft. Apple seems to be succumbing now Steve Jobs is gone but safari not too bad, firefox is OK most of the time and omniweb can be a pain but finds all sorts of things.

38712 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 4, #509 of 1687 🔗

Re Boris’s speech…it was interesting that he referred to the virus as a circling shark…

I recall reading after the crisis first hit that someone said Boris really liked the Jaws film as a boy but – contra the thrust of the film and the general audience reaction – his sympathies were with the Mayor who didn’t want to shut down the seaside town’s economy over a few silly shark attacks…

Can’t recall who retailed this story but I think it has the ring of truth about it…and might explain why sharks are on his mind.

38719 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, 2, #510 of 1687 🔗

More like a trailing jellyfish

38797 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Farinances, #511 of 1687 🔗

Stickleback!

38723 ▶▶ Gary, replying to OKUK, 1, #512 of 1687 🔗

Boris, from his actions in this panicdemic would fear shark attacks though. Never mind that substantially more people die in train crashes (and those are rare) or accidnts at firework displays, and that humans are nearly driving sharks to extinction while they usually take less than 10 people per year. If Boris was reluctant why did he let his government enact these crimes against liberty and business?

39102 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #513 of 1687 🔗

Not a Freudian slip regarding the Cabinet then?

38715 Dave #KBF, 3, #514 of 1687 🔗

JP Sears can see how this is being set-up behind the scenes:

https://youtu.be/4H-6HTKNgV0

Something a bit lighthearted to life the mood.

38717 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 8, #515 of 1687 🔗

Guys. Guys.

Carl Vernon’s latest.

The dude at 0:40 IS MY HERO.

THUG — LIFE

38763 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 5, #517 of 1687 🔗

Toby Young and Lockdown Sceptics also got a shout out.

38864 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Farinances, 1, #518 of 1687 🔗

Great! A must watch! WHO delusional leaders’ comments are a hoot.

39109 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #519 of 1687 🔗

Only if you know it’s bollox. Otherwise it’s deeply disturbing!

39112 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 1, #520 of 1687 🔗

That woman in the supermarket. What a star!!

38769 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Farinances, 3, #521 of 1687 🔗

Yeah, he’s kept me sane that’s for sure. Someone I’d like to meet one day!

38721 Gary, replying to Gary, 4, #522 of 1687 🔗

Teleggraph is back to scepticism, three cheers for not trusting the lockdown.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/poor-leicester-treated-cautionary-tale-enjoy-independence-day/

Also some good news from Sweden, suggesting that immunity has spread beyond known (or predicted) case levels, so there is perhaps more strength towards arguments that herd immunity is somehow being reached very early.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/30/around-third-no-coronavirus-symptoms-may-have-developed-immunity/

38858 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Gary, #523 of 1687 🔗

There’s no surprise about herd immunity having been reached in Sweden, Spain, Italy, the UK, probably Germany (and many other places that I haven’t been looking at so closely) and it’s not particularly early, given that it all kicked off in Europe around January or even December last year.

If anything it’s a bit on the late side because lockdowns etc. have dragged things out a bit.

39114 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gary, #524 of 1687 🔗

I really couldn’t stomach the Torygraph this morning!

38727 Nobody2020, 1, #525 of 1687 🔗

It puts the trolling in the basket or it gets the muzzle word again!

38743 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 25, #526 of 1687 🔗

Someone – sorry I forget who – mentioned here that they had a contact in the Premier League PR department who had told them that the Premier League were now seriously regretting their pledge of support for the violent Far Left Black Lives Matter movement. Was also said a number of players were seriously p’d off about it as well.

Looks like our informant was correct:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53242328

Seems the very venal, amoral, hypocritical Premier League are trying to distance themselves from the very clear pro-BLM (no conditionality) stance they took a few weeks ago.

Sorry guys, as Yorkshire Tea (profits plummeting) can tell you – it doesn’t work like that. You have to live with the decisions you make.

How is this relevant to the pandemic? Well Greta Thunberg has told us that BLM. climate change and the pandemic are interrelated, and I agree. The common theme is BS Virtue Signalling by: climate activists, rock stars and lefty politicians who jet around the world emitting more carbon in a year than you or I would in a lifetime; Guardian writers who work for a newspaper founded on slave money but who aren’t going to reduce their rates in order to offer due reparations; and Bonking Profs who drive a shag wagon through the regulations so they can enjoy carnal relations with their bit on the side.

38744 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 11, #527 of 1687 🔗

Just to add…from the BBC article:

“But while ‘Black Lives Matter’ has become the slogan behind the protests, Black Lives Matter also exists as a global organisation, founded in 2013, with several goals including to advocate against white supremacy and police violence towards black people.”

Typical BBC misdirection and duplicity.

So after more than a month the BBC finally decide to tell us (in their Sports section) that there is an organisation behind the slogan of Black Lives Matter….who knew? Clearly not the Premier League who were probably relying on the BBC, Sky and ITV for their information on BLM.

They’re not done though. This organisation has “several goals” the BBC inform us. So then they tell us about a couple of their virture-signalling goals but the BBC very carefully don’t enlighten us about their other goals including abolition of all private property and abolition of the family as a fundamental social structure.

38747 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 7, #528 of 1687 🔗

As an addendum. This is a great video from Tucker Carlson –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS-bsetu01w

He notes the Republican Party now needs to return to its roots:

  • Equal citizenship
  • Free speech
  • Serve the interests of ordinary families.

Could equally apply to the Conservative Party.

I’d say he’s essentially arguing for populism.

38773 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 2, #529 of 1687 🔗

I suspect this may have been triggered by the recent furore over some allegedly anti-semitic tweet from BLM, regarding the anti-zionism being muzzled in the UK. I say allegedly because I am not well enough informed to say whether it was or not. It’s plausible that BLM either as an organisation or as individuals have anti-semitic elements. Equally I don’t personally think that anyone who criticizes Israel’s treatment of Palestinians is necessarily anti-semitic (and I am fairly pro-Israeli FWIW).

It’s all very unsavoury, though there’s a little bit of schadenfreude seeing the “progressives” getting conflicted over support for BLM and avoiding anti-semitism. One wishes they’d get the hint and realise that thinking about these issues in dogmatically tribal terms leads to misery.

38778 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Julian, 4, #530 of 1687 🔗

The organisers who set up BLM are “trained Marxists”, their words. Those who jumped on the bandwagon clearly hadn’t checked out who was behind it and their aims.

38777 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to OKUK, 3, #531 of 1687 🔗

Here is Andrew Lawrence’s very funny and savage skewering of all this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhmyaFEdEEc

39117 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, 1, #532 of 1687 🔗

who knew? Clearly not the Premier League who were probably relying on the BBC, Sky and ITV for their information on BLM.

Serves them right! You’d think they’d at least have looked for a BLM website first. Idiots!

38751 ▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 1, #533 of 1687 🔗

Is there proof that BLMshire Tea’s profits have dropped?

38937 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 2, #534 of 1687 🔗

Another common theme between BLM and Greta is Soros funding.

39045 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to OKUK, #535 of 1687 🔗

You mean the Uk company with the number 12653061 “Black Lives Matter”?

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/12653061

Set up beginning of June 2020.

38748 ianric, replying to ianric, 16, #536 of 1687 🔗

A critical safeguard under criminal law is that there must be clear definition what constitutes a criminal offence. For instance, to be charged with speeding, you must go over the speed limit where you were driving. To be charged with drunk driving you must have an amount of alcohol which goes above a certain limit. To be charged with drug offences there is a list of illegal drugs. If laws didn’t have clear definitions it would be a recipe for tyranny and it would be difficult to appeal. For instance, if it was illegal to speed but a country had no speed limits anyone can be arrested for speeding and it would be difficult to appeal against a conviction

To justify a draconian lockdown, a disease must have two characteristics. Firstly, it must be dangerous with a high fatality rate. Secondly, it must be highly infectious. One of the major issues that I have with lockdowns is that governments have no legal threshold as to how dangerous a disease must be before a lockdown can be introduced eg the infection fatality rate, the proportion who suffer severe symptoms against those who have mild symptoms and how severe the symptoms must be. There is no clear definition of how infectious a disease must be to justify a lockdown. Without a clear legal threshold governments can introduce draconian lockdowns regardless of how dangerous or infectious a disease is or how many are infected. We see a situation where we are in lockdown over an illness which is not dangerous to the majority and has killed a tiny proportion of the uk population. Governments can introduce lockdowns with no evidence to back the justification. For instance, the government has provided no scientific research into how likely asymptomatic people are to pass on coronavirus.

An argument used by Simon Dolan in his appeal is that lockdown is disproportionate but the difficulty is how can you argue this if there is no clear legal definition of what is a proportionate response.

38757 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to ianric, 6, #537 of 1687 🔗

Well it is not listed as a High Consequence Infectious Disease if that helps….

38762 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to ianric, 15, #538 of 1687 🔗

There’s no justification for locking down the healthy. If that worked, we would have been doing it as a species for centuries. Isolating the sick yes, shutting away the healthy no.

38768 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to ianric, #539 of 1687 🔗

HI, thanks for this. Do you mind if I put a version of this on my FB page?

39086 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Moomin, #540 of 1687 🔗

You are welcome to put on your Facebook page. Do you have an adress for your page.

38776 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to ianric, 4, #541 of 1687 🔗

” If laws didn’t have clear definitions it would be a recipe for tyranny and it would be difficult to appeal. ”

You mean like our current hate speech laws??

38749 nfw, replying to nfw, #542 of 1687 🔗

Tried to post something here which is much shorter than many posts and was told it was ‘too long”. Should it say “too big”? And if so, what is the limit?

38761 ▶▶ Julian, replying to nfw, #543 of 1687 🔗

I wasn’t aware there was a limit.

I think posts with more than two links automatically go to “awaiting approval” status. Also people have had trouble uploading images – sometimes they appear as a stream of characters rather than an image.

38766 ▶▶ IanE, replying to nfw, #544 of 1687 🔗

The box counts letters/spaces (see top right in the box), i.e. 5000 letters/spaces.

38750 nfw, replying to nfw, 2, #545 of 1687 🔗

Want to see stupidity in action? Have a look at this page: https://www.2gb.com/iconic-kangaroo-ditched-in-favour-of-abstract-new-logo/ talk about bowing to the Chinese masters making your symbol look like the Wuhan Virus Flu.

38765 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to nfw, #546 of 1687 🔗

Unbelievable!

38775 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to nfw, 1, #547 of 1687 🔗

Just like Royal Mail changing its name to Consignia. That didn’t last long.

38932 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nfw, 1, #548 of 1687 🔗

I think the Polish/Yiddish phrase is “pissing into the soup”.

38755 james, 18, #549 of 1687 🔗

I’m from Leicestershire, within the locked down area. As I’ve said on Twitter I don’t know one person who’s tested positive, had symptoms or died. If anyone knows of a protest against this could they or Toby please publicise the details. Thanks

38756 Jenard, replying to Jenard, 12, #550 of 1687 🔗

By allowing lockdowns to happen, credence has been given to lockdown being an acceptable option. Expect lockdowns over any possible health threat soon.

38953 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Jenard, 2, #551 of 1687 🔗

Yes – and in what other directions will the lockdown precedent be applied?

39215 ▶▶▶ Jenard, replying to IanE, #552 of 1687 🔗

In theory, if it can prevent being blamed for death. At this point I’m really convinced that fear of blame is a strong driving force of current policies.

39221 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jenard, 1, #553 of 1687 🔗

Such as ‘… a possibility of showers.’.

38758 Neil Tuchten, replying to Neil Tuchten, 1, #554 of 1687 🔗

Dear Mr Young,
I read your column with critical interest every morning.
Have you found any research to explain why some infected people are asymptomatic and others are not?

38784 ▶▶ Mario, replying to Neil Tuchten, 4, #555 of 1687 🔗

There are very simple explanations. Many have already immunity from encounter with previous coronaviruses. Also, the test is prone to false positives, so the usual asymptomatic case is just as well someone who has been deemed infected by mistake.

38816 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mario, 2, #556 of 1687 🔗

False positives should only account for a few percent, but people often find 50% to 80% asymptomatic. The test isn’t that bad.

Cross-immunity is a plausible theory but I haven’t seen anyone looking for or finding actual evidence for this. It would be hard to do because you’d really need blood samples for each individual from before when they got infected to see what kinds of T-cells they had at that point.

Another theory that has been suggested is that SARS2 is good at evading the innate immune system (which is the part of the immune system that probably gives you the most symptoms). Here is a somewhat technical paper about this idea: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2020.04.026 .

It’s not clear that these asymptomatic cases are particularly unusual though. We just wouldn’t know if other coronaviruses did this because we never went around doing PCR tests on perfectly healthy people for no apparent reason at any point in history before. Plenty of asymptomatic cases have been found to result in antibodies and T-cells but often at low levels.

I think cross-immunity is the most likely explanation.

38772 Charles, replying to Charles, 12, #557 of 1687 🔗

Toby Young; good man. This blog/website and associated commentary seems to be a rare example of the information age doing what it should. I’ve been following from the start and there’s little the sceptic can’t unearth in these pages.

Two things that don’t get so much coverage:

1. How extraordinarily unhealthy we are as a nation. This is, of course, terribly closely linked to liberty. If we are (were) to stay at home in order to protect the NHS, does it follow that we should be able to smoke, drink, eat all the wrong things and take as little exercise as possible (physical and mental)? Those feverish folk so keen on putting the UK at the top of all the charts of doom might want to stop and think what could have happened if this, ummm, pandemic had turned out to be a real heavyweight.

2. What next? We have chapter and verse on the catastrophic play until this point, but the focus needs to shift to a further horizon. When, how and where is pressure to be applied to the Govt, and to what effect?

You, Toby, have clearly forged close and strong links – during this ‘meltdown’ – with some who are well positioned to step up.

I would hazard that the sceptics’ network is broad and deep and it seems like time to make use of it.

Sceptics; views?

PS Apologies if this appears more than once; tried yesterday and after ‘awaiting approval’, it vanished…..

38780 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Charles, 2, #558 of 1687 🔗

Absolutely agree. I’m very keen to get involved. I’m a qualitative market researcher and have just started a journey in semiotics (signs and symbols representing/influencing cultural attitudes), which at the time of coronavirus is an extraordinary eye-opening experience.

I also seem to have lots of commentary “waiting approval” so not sure what I can do about that.

Toby, you are a star for doing this blog.

38783 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Charles, 11, #559 of 1687 🔗

Agree 100% – I’ve felt for a couple of weeks that lockdown scepticism was about to realise it’s Kairotic moment and that one big push would do it. A few times the government have been on the ropes and reeling but have managed to wriggle off the hook – helped in no small part by the BLM movement diverting attention (and more importantly ire). What has been disappointing is the lack of a very public and very outspoken figurehead. Everyone (myself included) has had to ‘play the game’ somewhat. The first public person to come out and nail their colours to the mast AND (crucially) has the ability to rally people will sweep this horrible policy away in no time.

38977 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #560 of 1687 🔗

On the ropes AND on the hook?
Sounds painful.
And I bloody well hope it IS.

38995 ▶▶▶ Charles, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #561 of 1687 🔗

Sounds fair enough in principle, but I fear the media response would render such a person impotent immediately. Too great a threat.

However, with better prepared ground; via messaging and confidence building from a start point such as Lockdown Sceptics, it becomes a realistic prospect.

How to go about any steps forward/future agenda for the country without it becoming instantly politicised is a proper quandary.

39047 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #562 of 1687 🔗

Well there was the brilliant Lord Sumption

38818 ▶▶ Shep, replying to Charles, 1, #563 of 1687 🔗

Charles, I suggest that if you get no response, repost those same questions until you do. I’m thinking about it now.

38831 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Charles, 6, #564 of 1687 🔗

Good post.

The unproven and improperly tested panacea they have planned in 18 months time is a long way off to keep minds captured. The vaccine has been placed in minds as the only key, people won’t unlock from fear with anything less. More fool them.

That is a long time for a government propaganda machine to keep working with fear. Especially so since the government, actively and provably, deliberately increased levels of threat in people.

A change of gear is required. The media is keeping figureheads out of peoples attention. Goodluck indeed Mr Dolan, well done Toby and others, wonderful work.

I know it will be controversial to say but this platform reaches only a small demograph. I have great hope in the sanity of the reasonable man and woman. I refuse to believe the minds of us peasants are any different from those who stood with Wat Tyler.

Up and down the country people are seeing through the scam. A good goal is to give oxygen to those who see through, to show isolated groups others are dissenting. To encourage people to give themselves permission to think questioningly.

Each of us knows right from wrong. The propaganda spell is strong but that is all it is.

38927 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Charles, #565 of 1687 🔗

Please clarify which are the right things to smoke, Charles. 🙂

38991 ▶▶▶ Charles, replying to JohnB, 1, #566 of 1687 🔗

Very good. Bad guys, or so I’ve been told….

38774 Masqueless, replying to Masqueless, 21, #567 of 1687 🔗

Heard the announcer on R3 this morning (a corner of the BBC still worth listening to) say that the National Gallery reopens after 111 days shutdown due to Covid and that the longest shutdown before this was during WW2 – for 2 days! I looked into this and learned that despite the paintings being taken to safe storage to avoid bomb damage, the Gallery was open for exhibitions and concert recitals to keep a cultural life going in the empty buildings, despite the risk of being bombed to bits. Compare that to now where a severe dose of flu has frightened people to such an extent that most people appear willing to let arts and culture die. I am sure it will resurrect itself in some form but I find this extremely depressing.

38779 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Masqueless, #568 of 1687 🔗

I think arts and culture will resurrect in a huge way. It will be the only accepted medium of expression due to cancel culture.

38874 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Masqueless, 2, #569 of 1687 🔗

Kenneth Clark (who was the director then) was instrumental in making sure that the Gallery was doing its bit to boost national morale. He will be certainly turning in his grave at how spineless and unimaginative his successors have become. I have my current battle with the National Gallery over my membership – suffice to say I am boycotting them for the duration of their insane reopening protocols.

38781 James Leary #KBF, 14, #570 of 1687 🔗

Simon Dolan back in Court soon. Should we be holding our collective breath for a chink (!) of light at the end of the tunnel, or have the independent judiciary been knobbled as usual?

38786 Louise, 2, #571 of 1687 🔗

It’s like they keep dangling hope in front of us and snatching it away, like a cruel concentration camp guard waving a crust of bread, exercising his own power. I had hope last year. I voted remain but was appalled by the anti-democratic bullshit. The sense of relief that democracy prevailed was huge. Same goes for the election. All those in their abusive online echo chambers got a reminder that majority matters, people matter, the economy matters. Now we are back to listening to the loudest, kowtowing to the abusive few while the rest of us wait silently, patiently and with a dwindling sense of hope. I could not be more disappointed in this government. The only small scrap of relief comes from knowing what an utter hellscape the UK would be now if the election had gone any other way.

38788 Sarigan, 13, #572 of 1687 🔗

Actually quite a good piece in the Sun:

IF THE WEDDING RINGS HAVE TO BE SANITISED, SEX MUST BE A NO-NO WITH THE GOVERNMENT’S LAUGHABLY CLUELESS RULES

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11995112/if-the-wedding-rings-have-to-be-sanitised-sex-must-be-a-no-no-with-the-governments-laughably-clueless-rules/

38789 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 26, #573 of 1687 🔗

I still think it was unavoidable to begin the lockdown, but at the time I said it would be easier to get into than out of. Now I am a full scale sceptic. It is quite obvious that the number of life-years lost will be minimal.
The root problem seems to be a nexus of a childlike desire of the electorate to be protected from harm, a media that thrives on hysteria, and a public sector that suffers no financial consequence. It’s toxic.

38792 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to WhyNow, 3, #574 of 1687 🔗

Welcome to the LS club!

38793 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to WhyNow, 4, #575 of 1687 🔗

Great, succinct opening post. Like an Exocet missile !

38794 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to WhyNow, 1, #576 of 1687 🔗

Hear, hear….

38795 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to WhyNow, 20, #577 of 1687 🔗

Lockdown was entirely avoidable. There was never any convincing evidence for it the credible science at the time lockdown was implemented was already telling us it was merely a mild virus. Personally I don’t think any virus should permit a government to impose ‘lockdown’ if a virus was really that dangerous people would change their behaviour voluntarily. All it would have taken to avoid lockdown is to live by some basic principles, the sort of principles I thought this country stood for although now I now better and its a nation of fascists and communists eager to violate my natural rights in the most evil possible ways.

38908 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #578 of 1687 🔗

We absolutely need to argue that lockdown was avoidable. First of all, it’s true. But secondly, if we don’t, we set a precedent that every time a potentially pandemic pathogen emerges lockdown will be seen as the only prudent course of action because “there’s so much we don’t know about this bug”, “look at all the people dying” etc.

38827 ▶▶ Shep, replying to WhyNow, 3, #579 of 1687 🔗

Got to push back against it now, childlike desires can be steered so let’s lead by example.

38853 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to WhyNow, 1, #580 of 1687 🔗

Good news! You qualify for a badge!
If you would like one of these email me at two-six@twang.co.uk
£4.50 inc free post and packing.

38796 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #581 of 1687 🔗

Just got a reply from the National Gallery and to me it looks like crocodile tears and didn’t really answer my question.

Here’s my original email:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have just received an email from you regarding your plans to reopen on 6 July and having read the email and following the link to your website. I am dismayed at the measures you have put in place such as pre-booking, timed tickets, social distancing and one way systems. I am a member and regular visitor, part of the joy of coming to the National Gallery is having the ability to drop in when I am in the vicinity to view my favourite paintings in the collection and the thrill of discovering something new. This will not be possible under the “safety” measures that you have put in place.

Contrary to your claims, these measures will neither be “relaxing” nor “enjoyable.” I fail to see what is so relaxing and enjoyable going to the National Gallery when, your measures are redolent of what shops have been doing to make shopping joyless and reminiscent of the Soviet Union and East Germany.

I read the plan for members visiting and it is written that face coverings are “encouraged”. My husband and I are unable to wear one for health and psychological reasons. Are there any guarantees that we will not be refused entry or harassed by staff and other visitors for not wearing a face covering?

While the National Gallery insists of treating us and other visitors like plague victims, I and my husband will be boycotting your museum until these “social distancing” regulations and “safety” measures have been abolished.

Because of this I am also looking into cancelling my joint membership. Would it be possible to obtain a refund and if not, what are the steps that we should take to avoid renewing the following year?

Thank you and I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,
etc, etc..

And here’s their reply:

Dear XXXXXXXXX,

Thank you for taking the time to write to us. We feel our role now, as ever, is to provide access to some of the world’s greatest art, to give people inspiration and solace. We appreciate that at this moment in time not everybody is ready to visit the Gallery in person, so we will continue to share films, stories and live streamed events online with all our Members.

For those happy and able to physically visit the Gallery, we have come up with guidelines based on our research and risk assessments and following the advice of Public Health England. We will ensure our visitors have the widest possible access to the Collection as well as the safest and most comfortable visiting experience possible. The changes will make the experience different, including the need to book your visit, but these measures are in place is so we can limit the number of people in the Gallery and the number of people queuing to get into the Gallery, in line with Government advice. This will also result in a far calmer less, busy experience within the Gallery which, for some, is a positive reason to join us.

The wearing of facial coverings is not mandatory, but again advised by the government. You are not required to wear face coverings, however we would not be fulfilling our commitment to your safety if we did not recommend their use. You would not be refused entry to the Gallery, and I would hope that fellow visitors would not harass you for not wearing them. If you felt anybody’s conduct toward you were inappropriate or threatening in any way I would urge you to speak to a member of staff who would assist you immediately.

I am genuinely sorry you wish to boycott the Gallery, especially at this time when we need your support more than ever. I am afraid we do not offer refunds on Memberships but if you would like to cancel your future renewal please let us know and we can organise this.

We wish we could reopen in the normal manner people are accustomed to, but the Covid-19 global pandemic has left us and all our colleagues across the arts sector doing everything within our power to continue giving the nation access to great art.

with best wishes,
etc, etc….

Am sending another strongly worded reply and will not renew our membership

38805 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #582 of 1687 🔗

Thank you for posting the correspondence. It is enlightening to read. I am amazed you got a reply in 24 hours, even if there is no movement their side.

As they recommend wearing face masks will they also be issuing information about the accepted health dangers associated? That would be responsible.

It’s nearly month since I submitted emails to police and government, only placeholder replies so far.

38808 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 5, #583 of 1687 🔗

As they recommend wearing face masks will they also be issuing information about the accepted health dangers associated? That would be responsible.

I’m drafting a reply as I type this so will include that. Thanks!

38840 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #584 of 1687 🔗

You could include links to evidence showing that they do not work and are also dangerous, and ask what measures they have in place if someone say, passed out in the gallery while wearing a mask. Would the staff refuse to help, due to their social distancing rules?

38846 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 8, #585 of 1687 🔗

Just had @Carrie. Here’s my reply to them:

Dear XXXX,

Thank you for your reply. I always enjoying going to the National Gallery and your staff have always treated me with courtesy and respect however under these circumstances I cannot support any institution or business that condones this “new normal” that has wreaked havoc with our lives and civil liberties.

I notice that you did not address one part of my question – “are there any guarantees that we will not be refused entry or harassed by staff (emphasis mine) and other visitors for not wearing a face covering?” What if it was a member of your staff doing the harassing? Who do we call?

And the government guideline to my knowledge only refers to public transport and even there are exemptions under this. Are you aware that that there is no evidence they work and, in fact, can cause health problems?  Below are two papers that quite clearly states there are no studies at all that show masks and face coverings will inhibit respiratory viruses and, in fact, prove that due to the size of virus particles, could never prevent infection:

http://ocla.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Rancourt-Masks-dont-work-review-science-re-COVID19-policy.pdf

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1435/rr-40

Given that you mention that the National Gallery did its research and risk assessments then are you able to provide the following:

a)      Any scientific papers you have studied that have said masks and face coverings have a significant impact on respiratory viruses.

b)      A copy of the risk assessment has been carried out as to the possible adverse effects of wearing masks and face coverings

c)      A copy of any Equality Impact Assessment that has been carried out

d)      Contact details of who is to be addressed to be held responsible and to make a claim against when visitors become ill or pass out while in your premises due to them being “encouraged” to wear masks and face coverings, particularly as the risks of wearing them are already well known.

Lastly there are also psychological effects which include the de-humanising result it has on the wearer; it will clearly cause emotional problems for children who will now view every human being as a potential disease carrier and will have untold consequences on their mental health for years to come.

I would strongly suggest that since you are recommending the use of masks or face coverings then it would be prudent to post something about the dangers associated with them.

With regards to my membership, I have made the final decision not to renew so I would please instruct your office to do the necessary steps to cancel any future renewals. In addition, given that I was unable to use my membership during the last 3 months (before the renewal), perhaps it is also fair and proper to ask for a refund for this.

Thank you and I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,
XXXXXX

Thanks to a fellow sceptic here I need to thank, I believe his name is Stephen as I used part of his own letter for my reply.

38851 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #586 of 1687 🔗

Great letter – well done!

38859 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 1, #587 of 1687 🔗

Thank you. It will be interesting to see how they reply.

38861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #588 of 1687 🔗

Expect more corporate speak to dismiss any concerns without taking anything on board.

38867 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark II, 3, #589 of 1687 🔗

I expect nothing less. While I was surprised at the speed of the reply and reassurance that my husband and I will not be refused entry, I do decry the crocodile tears about being sorry that I’m boycotting as “they need [my] support more than ever” and the patronising “concern” about my “safety”

38897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark II, 5, #590 of 1687 🔗

I’m not sure about that – they may just feel a need after that letter, to talk to their legal dept re the ramifications of anyone falling ill on their premises due to wearing a mask..

38917 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #591 of 1687 🔗

Very good response,your section about mask wearing is spot on,they really provided the rope to hang themselves with their response.

38921 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 4, #592 of 1687 🔗

Thanks/ I hope it does make them think, as my husband has said, all it takes is one visitor to pass out and s/he can take the Gallery to court and clean them out.

39127 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, #593 of 1687 🔗

Although if mask-wearing is voluntary, surely the risk lies with the wearer?

39235 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #594 of 1687 🔗

They are “encouraging” it and of course there’s always the risk that a gallery staff member will make life hell for a visitor who is not wearing one. And sadly, many people are not aware of the risks of masks.

38920 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #595 of 1687 🔗

Excellent, well done Bart.

38975 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #596 of 1687 🔗

Exocet!

38817 ▶▶ davews, replying to Bart Simpson, #597 of 1687 🔗

I have attended a couple of National Trust sites (gardens only) which require pre-booking and it works well. In their case you get a timed slot entry but can stay the rest of the day. Only issue is you have to book first thing Friday morning when they release the next week’s tickets otherwise they sell out. Nobody seemed wearing masks. Wish we could get back to normal times though, I will never accept ‘new normal’.

39130 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to davews, 1, #598 of 1687 🔗

Why on earth would you need to book to visit a garden or huge estate so numbers are restricted, when you can just pop down to your local park and mingle freely?

Surely the whole point of subscribing is that you can visit spontaneously. They don’t deserve supporting!

39220 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Cheezilla, #599 of 1687 🔗

Already done all the local parks many times… I was just commenting that like most on here I would rather not have to prebook but NT are forced to by the Government dictats and it is them we should be complaining to and not NT. As it happened once inside the NT sites there was very little evidence of social distancing, just a few half hearted faded one way lines.
Been following this site for a few days and fully support Toby in his efforts. It is a hard battle when the whole world seems to disagree with you. Currently looking at re-opening our church for worship, the rigmarole is even worse than the pubs and sadly makes churches just as unwelcoming.

39217 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to davews, #600 of 1687 🔗

Are the cafes open, Dave ?

39251 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to JohnB, #601 of 1687 🔗

I was told that the one at Ham House was opening this week. And the loos were open, admittedly with half of the urinals taped off and hand dryers banned – a big basket of paper towels we all had to put our mitts in…

39242 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to davews, #602 of 1687 🔗

Its the matter of principle. I understand if its a very popular exhibition or there’s an event but not because the likes of the NT see fit to treat us as lepers.

Granted they’re following government guidelines and they have to but I believe that boycotting these sites and museums is probably the only way to get the directors of these museums and heritage sites to develop the cojones to pressure the government to end their insane policies.

39442 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #603 of 1687 🔗

If only just ONE organisation would call their bluff …
I’ve terminated my NT membership and told them why in no uncertain terms.

39529 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #604 of 1687 🔗

Agree but sadly they’re populated by spineless bureaucrats. I seriously doubt that the likes of Kenneth Clark or Roy Strong or James Lee-Milne would have agreed to this nonsense.

39441 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to davews, #605 of 1687 🔗

Don’t. It isn’t normal. It never will be.

38875 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #606 of 1687 🔗

Disgusting that they don’t offer refunds …

38924 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 3, #607 of 1687 🔗

It is that’s why Mr Bart and I have decided to cancel next year.

38974 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #608 of 1687 🔗

Well done. Stand up to the buggers.

38998 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 2, #609 of 1687 🔗

We’re staying away for as long as this insanity is in place. But membership? Never Again!

39002 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #610 of 1687 🔗

‘…at this time when we need your support more than ever. ’ Then make some concessions you bastards and stop toeing the official line. In my experience people who enjoy the arts are the least susceptible to government bulshit and regulations. Art, after all, is (or can be) subversive. Percentage-wise art establishments who kowtow to this crap are going to lose far more patrons than the subservient that queue outside Primark. Art can be very subversive, which is why it doesn’t appeal to sheep. Patrons of the arts tend to have critical thinking skills.

39005 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, 3, #611 of 1687 🔗

Well said Bella. I was dismayed that many museums and art galleries demonstrated their support for BLM while being silent on the erosion of civil liberties and now these measures that will hasten their demise. Now that its been exposed that BLM is also anti-Semitic, the silence from the heritage sector is deafening.

39131 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 1, #612 of 1687 🔗

Unfortunately, administrators don’t!

39126 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #613 of 1687 🔗

we have come up with guidelines based on our research and risk assessments and following the advice of Public Health England.

So the nonsense is of their own making. Can’t blame HMG for this. Idiots!!

39246 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #614 of 1687 🔗

Agree. That’s why I asked if they can provide copies of their assessments and if they even bothered to do something like equality impacts as mask wearing can affect those with physical and learning disabilities. Or if they even bothered to check the health hazards of mask wearing.

One thing I didn’t ask but came to me was security – I bet they never thought of that.

38801 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #615 of 1687 🔗

I think it’s time to get very worried about the 2nd wave and more lockdowns over and over ad infinitum?

Bill and Melinda Gates recent interview clip – the bit is towards the very end:

https://twitter.com/wideawqke/status/1277735412664946688

And Fauci sid about the same 30th June, will try and find the video interview link.

38832 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #616 of 1687 🔗

Ooooo…… that made my stomach lurch.

38942 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to TyLean, #617 of 1687 🔗

Yes, mine too – and that was before I started the video!

38843 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #618 of 1687 🔗

It is the way he smirks and is clearly enjoying this that is seriously chilling…

39051 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #619 of 1687 🔗

I know it’s a bit drippy hippy but the old saying “the eyes are the windows to your soul” seems to be true.

Look at Gates’s eyes, Whitty, Vallance, Fauci, Bezos, Netanyahu, Sturgeon, Blair, Handjobs, Macron, Trudeau, Varadakar, Merkel, Johnson, that idiot in Wales, Cressida Dick, your most psychopathic manager, council chiefs and managers, NHS bosses, all the psychotics who are running the show etc and their eyes are “dead”, or they are when I look at them – all dark pits with no feelings or compassion.

Maybe I’m just nuts and gone and gone insane and the rest of the world is normal. I don’t know anymore.

39108 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #620 of 1687 🔗

Agree – they are all ‘dead’ behind the eyes..

39134 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #621 of 1687 🔗

Cartainly not human. Starts to make Icke look like he’s onto something……

39469 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #622 of 1687 🔗

That is an actual thing isn’t, piss-holes in the snow.

I wish more people would look at these ‘leaders’ eyes and decide good person, bad person. It certainly informs perception in an direct way.

Top list there for beginners to practice on, I’d pop on Soros and Kissenger for good measure.

39476 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #623 of 1687 🔗

Speaking of piss holes in the snow. COVID censor in chief. zuckerberg.

39133 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #624 of 1687 🔗

Scary! And he looks so pleased with himself.

38815 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #625 of 1687 🔗

And so it begins:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-bradford-and-london-boroughs-among-36-at-risk-areas-that-could-be-just-days-away-from-local-lockdowns-12018594

It has been widely reported that the 36 “at-risk” areas are:

  • Havering
  • Wiltshire
  • Wandsworth
  • Gloucestershire
  • Ealing
  • Hammersmith and Fulham
  • Doncaster
  • Plymouth
  • Barking and Dagenham
  • Westminster
  • Milton Keynes
  • Wakefield
  • Haringey
  • Medway
  • Hounslow
  • Brent
  • Harrow
  • Kensington and Chelsea
  • Slough
  • Suffolk
  • Redbridge
  • Sandwell
  • Enfield
  • Tower Hamlets
  • York
  • Sunderland
  • Wigan
  • Windsor and Maidenhead
  • Leicester
  • Gateshead
  • Isle of Wight
  • Richmond upon Thames
  • Portsmouth
  • Redcar and Cleveland
  • Derbyshire
  • Walsall
38821 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sarigan, 2, #626 of 1687 🔗

Hopefully this is just Sky click-bait.

38822 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #627 of 1687 🔗

Hope so too but anything is possible with this govt. as we know.

38823 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sarigan, #628 of 1687 🔗

True!

38825 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 1, #629 of 1687 🔗

That’s just weird. Gateshead and Sunderland are on the list but Newcastle isn’t? Comfortably the majority of people who live in Gateshead and a significant proportion of people ho live in Sunderland work and shop in Newcastle, I would think – therefore they must be spreading the thing there as well. Random.

38839 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, #630 of 1687 🔗

There is a rather large river between them.

38913 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, #631 of 1687 🔗

Then they should build some bridges. Oh …

38951 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 1, #632 of 1687 🔗

There’s also a metro line and Gateshead basically doesn’t have a town centre. And Sunderland is a dump.

38918 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, #633 of 1687 🔗

Gateshead has got the SAGE. 🙂

38857 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Sarigan, 11, #634 of 1687 🔗

A cursory glance at the figures for a bunch of those areas (I didnt look for all, just those close to me) show this to be utter garbage. You’re talking, in a bunch of cases, single digit increases on single digit case numbers… it’s utterly insane for them to be pretending now that 10 cases in a London borough of 300,000 people would justify a ‘local lockdown’ in any way shape or form.

I’m so confused by the _WHY_ of all this, it’s impossible to see how the government is benefiting in any way from this nonsense. A few very rich individuals have got a lot richer over the last few months, but don’t they always anyway?

The flaccid response of most of the population is concerning. I returned to the office yesterday and promptly ended up in a disagreement with my boss who believes we should all be masked up whenever in public. He has no response to my asking him to justify the cost & environmental damage of forcing 68,000,000 people to buy and use masks for a disease currently infecting 30,000 people (governments figures based on community testing) across the entire country, this is someone intelligent enough to run a successful business, just blindly accepting something so clearly illogical.

39146 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, 1, #635 of 1687 🔗

Divide and rule. Maintain the fear:
First save the NHS.
Next the R number.
Next the rising number of cases.
Now local lockdowns.

38892 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Sarigan, 4, #636 of 1687 🔗

Leicester needs to rise up!

38907 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sarigan, 3, #637 of 1687 🔗

So basically the whole country then.

Sigh.

39058 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Sarigan, 4, #638 of 1687 🔗

SUFFOLK??? Hardly bugger all cases here. More in Norfolk and many more in Essex, but still not many. Few deaths too expecially taking into account the large amounbt of elderly folks.

They are just making shit up.

39252 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to chris c, 1, #639 of 1687 🔗

I sat down by the river and cogitated. Here’s what I think they are doing:-

in the Real World

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-update-30th-june/

updated daily, the virus has almost gone – look att all the hospital trusts reporting no deaths

in their minds

yesterday there were two cases, today there were three

THAT’S A FIFTY PERCENT INCREASE! LOCK EVERYTHING DOWN!!!

39122 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, #640 of 1687 🔗

I vote for Slough.

What ? Oh, sorry, thought it was a poll.

39141 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 1, #641 of 1687 🔗

As I wrote to my councillor this morning, it’s time the councils grew some balls (though I didn’t quite phrase it like that). If they all stood together, HMG couldn’t pull this off.

38819 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 23, #642 of 1687 🔗

Charles and Tom Blackburn’s posts (below) have fed into what I see as a lack of politics so far in the LS approach.

I can’t accept the following narratives we’re being expected to believe:

1 the Government panicked
2 the media whipped up the public to demand a lockdown from a populist government who capitulated
3 the Government bowed to pressure from the teaching unions to prevent the schools properly opening and the transport unions to make face-coverings mandatory

I do accept that the Government is incompetent and cowardly but it’s not the whole story.

There is clearly a lot more behind this than a bungled and panicked response to an unusual threat. SAGE (who are in any case from mixed scientific backgrounds) knew enough about how the CV19 epidemic was developing to pursue similar policies to Sweden which, despite a positive blitz of criticism, has done a great deal better then the UK with no threat to its social, Governmental and structural structures and with far less damage to its economy.

Even the release of the SAGE minutes does not tell us about the influence of Dominic Cummings on the crucial meetings which led to the U-turn in policy. We do know that the Behavioural Insights Team and SPI-B advised SAGE to terrify the population into compliance and the psy-ops (Leicester) continue. What is is really behind the imminent departure of Sir Mark Sedwill? A few weeks ago he was tipped to be head of MI6 and now he’s out to grass.

I am suspicious of figureheads and there is no hope of a conventional political alternative while Parliamentary democracy has been rendered irrelevant. Dissent, apart from a little permitted ‘whingeing’ is currently being ruthlessly suppressed in all mainstream and social media. Eminent scientists trying to protest the damage being done to us by this unnecessary and ongoing lock-down, and presenting their own conflicting research, are sidelined by their professional bodies and even such institutions as the Royal Society. Meanwhile the known dodgy science apparently guiding this catastrophe is still apparently being ‘followed’. Even the Lancet publishes false science. How more serious can this get?

The biggest funder of the WHO is Bill Gates who also funds GAVI. He even part-funds the BBC and Guardian along with many other organisations. This very rich man with a known eugenicist agenda has been in recent talks wth our PM and is clearly determined to bring about world vaccination and population surveillance and governments are happily falling into line.

We think that organised resistance is the only hope. Whether that comes from one person or a group may not matter. Perhaps we should keep it simple and just go for Gates. I believe it’s an old military tactic to cut off the head of the snake.

38824 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #643 of 1687 🔗

The notion that it is a conspiracy organised by Bill Gates is precisely the sort of claim that results in those in authority using the terms conspiracy theory and dangerous disinformation, a tactic which is (depressingly) effective in suppressing dissent. Unless one can provide evidence to prove a conspiracy, it is best avoided.

38826 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #644 of 1687 🔗

Who said any of that? Was it the word ‘military’ that rang your bell?

When things are happening in plain sight they are not conspiracies.

Oh, and being called a conspiracy theorist to try and shut you up is getting a bit old isn’t it?

Go away, do some research and come back with something grown up.

38836 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 11, #645 of 1687 🔗

I dislike Gates, but I disagree with your notion about this is something that he has hatched.

You say you cannot accept that the government panicked. Well I can. And I do think that.

Boris Johnson is PM (unfortunately) and he can replace Sedwill if he wants to.

You are entitled to your opinion. But so are others entitled to theirs.

I disagree with your views on this.

38844 ▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to John P, 12, #646 of 1687 🔗

I wonder if one’s particular take on this comes down to whether they believe that everything is rife ineptitude and a planet full of morons versus psychopathy and a planet full of greedy, power hungry sods.

I have vacillated between the two camps throughout my life, the cycle usually following a pattern of thinking, “everyone is basically okay, they’re just really stupid,” followed by an event that demonstrates that there is more nastiness behind their actions than I was willing to admit. Obviously, it’s a case by case and there are people in both camps as well as a minority of people (like present company) who seem to be switched on and capable of critical thinking and maybe even some compassion to boot.

Unfortunately, seeing how the Doomers were treating people, the irrational double think and group think, how quickly we threw people with care needs under the bus, etc…. I’m having a very hard time holding onto any belief that people are “just” stupid. The ugliness that has poured forth…. can’t be recalled now.

Quite frankly, if the government are this inept…. how do they manage to wipe their own arses?

38886 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to TyLean, 6, #647 of 1687 🔗

“Quite frankly, if the government are this inept…. how do they manage to wipe their own arses?”

A good question. But they are this inept. They are politicians. They have no qualifications for the job of running the country. They put themselves up for election and people voted for them.

Democracy is a flawed system, maybe that’s why they seem so keen to dismantle it at the moment.

There are plenty of power hungry sods, as you put it, but I personally do not agree with the notion that there is some sort of organisation behind this.

So yes, I do think that the government are extremely stupid and incompetent.

Gates is not a man that I would trust, and he may well be dangerous, but I don’t agree with those that say he “has a eugenicist agenda”.

38887 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to John P, -10, #648 of 1687 🔗

Do some homework and stop wasting our time.

38889 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #649 of 1687 🔗

I’ll do what I want thank you.

38893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #650 of 1687 🔗

I have no idea who you are. You are extremely rude and defensive.

I am allowed to disagree with you.

38902 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to John P, -1, #651 of 1687 🔗

Thank you again.

38905 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #652 of 1687 🔗

Can you stop harassing me please.

I am shaking now. I find the way you keep answering my comments to be very intimidating.

38909 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 3, #653 of 1687 🔗

Go for a walk. Stroke a dog. Eat something healthy.

38910 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, 1, #654 of 1687 🔗

I will do John, thank you.

39124 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to John P, #655 of 1687 🔗

He might have eugenicist views, but he’s hardly in a position to pull the strings of governments. Meeting with Prime Ministers is not the same as controlling them. I once met Tony Blair. I am not responsible for him going to war in Iraq.

39372 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to John P, 1, #656 of 1687 🔗

I think it would be prudent to be mindful of TyLean’s theory. Gates’ father was part of the eugenics movement. The WEF are setting up the Great Reset and Event 201 is there for everyone to see. The language is being cleverly coordinated. The YouTube videos are being taken down. The same mistakes being made by Western govts…

You don’t have to have a position. But it’s always best to bet both ways.

38845 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, -1, #657 of 1687 🔗
38896 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, #658 of 1687 🔗

I am not interested in what Gates has to say. I don’t like him.

39053 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to John P, 1, #659 of 1687 🔗

I think you really need to listen to what he has said and done over the past 20 years whether you like him or not then come back and say there is nothing to see.

38868 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to John P, #660 of 1687 🔗

Thank you for your permission to post on your message-board, John!

I did not at any point mention the word ‘hatched’.

If you know what happened at the Cabinet Office, why not tell us?

How about answering the points I made instead of trying to close down a conversation?

Are you another one I’ve flushed out?

38876 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #661 of 1687 🔗

You are entitled to your views and I am entitled to disagree with them.

38879 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to John P, -2, #662 of 1687 🔗

Thanks once again, sir!

38906 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 3, #663 of 1687 🔗

You seem to be trying to avoid the virus-squads/re-education sessions/internment camps, John. Good move.

38972 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 7, #664 of 1687 🔗

So do I, though I try to keep an open mind. It is indeed hard to imagine that a whole slew of governments worldwide could act with such asinine stupidity, but I think that copycat stupidity does account for it.
Which does NOT mean that those responsible are not wicked and evil. As well as stupid.

39024 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to annie, 8, #665 of 1687 🔗

It’s herd mentality that has driven this lockdown pandemic. I don’t buy the conspiracy theories, the powers that be simply aren’t that smart. Incompetence is always more likely than conspiracy.

It was the herd mentality of the public that drove Boris to switch direction from going for the no lockdown/herd immunity/Swedish approach to the one we got.

Boris wants/needs to be popular. The public – the vast majority of them, had been terrified by seeing Italy on the news (which itself was bounced into a full national lockdown by the media and the public panicking) and were clamoring for a full lockdown.

Not locking down would have been both unpopular and risky in a world where every other country in Europe was locking down (excepting Sweden) – no way is Boris a strong enough character to resist doing the same.

No conspiracy, just panic from the public, fed by the media.

39125 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 1, #666 of 1687 🔗

They are culpable for their own actions. They saw what China did to suppress the virus there and decided to copy it. They just forgot that China is a vile dictatorship and that western countries are supposed to be democratic and free.

Remember Micron threatening Johnson with a border closed to UK travellers if he didn’t lockdown? Early mid March, around that time.

I view politicians as deeply stupid, ambitious ones are dangerous, and they certainly appear to demonstrate psychotic traits. But well organised, paying attention to detail, covering every base, planning for every eventuality… Less so.

39494 ▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to John P, #667 of 1687 🔗

For the record, I’m not entirely convinced of anything or saying that an organisation is behind it. I’m merely saying, I’m seeing a lot of stuff that makes me deeply suspicious of the motivations, and I think it’s prudent to at least pay attention. I hope that it is the worst balls up in history by a bunch of drunk chimpanzees. (No offense meant to chimpanzees!) I was once thoroughly ingratiated in the entrepreneurial-positive-thinking-cult world, and I basically learned how to structure my life to get exactly what I wanted from young adulthood. These people (and myself by extension) are intense planners and goal-setters. Nothing happens by accident or whim. Everything they do, they do deliberately, and they define it in great detail. Their core beliefs are not that they are lucky, but that they are prepared to seize opportunity when opportunity comes.

Most of them are good people….

38829 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #668 of 1687 🔗

It’s a rarely spoken of fact that the Nazi party pointed to the US Supreme Court’s forced sterilisation of people deemed mentally insufficient as justification and precedence for their actions. If you read literature of the time period, Eugenics was alive and well, often under the guise of “degenration.”

Indeed, it is troubling that what is in plain site is called conspiracy theory.

Do you know the last movie I saw at the cinema before lockdown? Dark Waters. I find that chillingly poetic.

38835 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to TyLean, #669 of 1687 🔗

I was going to edit to add links, but apparently editing is a timed feature. No wonder I couldn’t find it before, lol! I work too slow for that.

US Supreme Court:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell
Degeneration Theory:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degeneration_theory
Dark Waters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Waters_(2019_film)

38866 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to TyLean, 9, #670 of 1687 🔗

From the late nineteenth century to the Second World War virtually all educated people believed in the science of Eugenics. After the Second World War it was almost impossible to find anyone who would admit to having believed in the science of Eugenics. The science had not changed. What had changed was it was no longer a politically correct opinion. So its supporters quietly re-wrote their personal histories and pretended to have never supported Eugenics.

As for the term conspiracy theory – it was weaponised by the CIA precisely to silence any challenge to official narratives. However, it can only work if people make assertions that they cannot justify with evidence that is in the public domain. Thus, whenever someone says for example, “ we should keep it simple and just go for Gates. I believe it’s an old military tactic to cut off the head of the snake.” they provide the authorities with an easy way to shut down dissent.

38871 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Steve Hayes, -5, #671 of 1687 🔗

Do your research. Everything I have said is in the public domain. I found it, why can’t you?

38978 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #672 of 1687 🔗

You tell me to research. Here is some of the actual planning for this pandemic: https://viewsandstories.blogspot.com/2020/05/planning-for-coronavirus-pandemic.html

As you can see the government planned, not to protect people from an infectious disease, but to grant itself unlimited authoritarian powers.

38990 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #673 of 1687 🔗

So doesn’t that belie your contention that no conspiracy is involved, as in conspire’ to grant itself unlimited authoritarian powers?’

39261 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Bella, #674 of 1687 🔗

No.

38912 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #675 of 1687 🔗

House arrest.
Severe curtailment of travel.
No free speech.
No right of assembly.

Which of these are you lacking evidence of, Steve ?

38950 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to JohnB, 8, #676 of 1687 🔗

I have repeatedly written on this site (and elsewhere) about the violation of our rights and liberties. So, I am rather perplexed to find that you appear to think I am unaware of those violations. In fact, your list is rather incomplete. You appear to have missed the suspension of juries, the cancellation of elections, the denial of the right to education, the limitation of the right to practice religion, the violation of the right to receive/refuse medical attention, the limitation of the right to engage in legitimate economic activities, the denial of the right to a livelihood, the removal of the right to privacy, the institution of a police state by the police and others having the power to detain anyone indefinitely on the basis of suspicion, the undermining of the rule of law, the clauses in the Coronavirus Act 2020 which provide the government the power to alter any power and extend the act by mere ministerial fiat. And perhaps most importantly the overthrowing of the assumption that one can do anything that is not expressly forbidden in law. And none of this was subject to parliamentary scrutiny and division.

38992 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #677 of 1687 🔗

Absolutely. Everything you say there is true. So why so reluctant to subscribe to conspiracy. Is it the word itself? Everything you say above points to totalitarianism. How did we get there?

39262 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Bella, #678 of 1687 🔗

We got there by fear and collective madness.

39121 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Hayes, #679 of 1687 🔗

a) I try not to bend people’s ears overmuch. A few examples are usually sufficient. But thanks for reinforcing my point …

b) which is, it looks like a vast conspiracy to me. Whatever that makes them call me.

38847 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Steve Hayes, #680 of 1687 🔗

‘…the sort of claim that results in those in authority using the terms conspiracy theory and dangerous disinformation, a tactic which is (depressingly) effective in suppressing dissent.’ Which is exactly what you have done there, ironically (or conspiratorially.) Nowhere did she say this was a conspiracy ‘organised’ by Bill Gates but by reducing it to that you undermine what Miriam is saying, a classic counter-intelligence tactic. It is, as she said, hiding in plain sight. By minimising the possibility you play into the hands of those pushing the agenda (see I avoided the word ‘conspiracy’ there?) and they can follow it through because it is unopposed since no-one wants to believe that sort of thing could happen here. Exactly what the average German citizen thought in the 1930s. Would you have been one of those to turn your back as Jews were carted off to Auschwitz, ostensibly for re-education? You dismiss what Miriam is saying too easily, and the kindest take I can put on that is that you are advocating the kind of appeasement that did for Chamberlain.

38873 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella, 2, #681 of 1687 🔗

Bella, I could not have put this as well – thank you!

BTW, I have ordered a book called ‘They thought they were free’ – about Nazi Germany and how the people were propagandized into accepting fascism.

38849 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #682 of 1687 🔗

Gates seems to be enjoying this – see here: https://twitter.com/wideawqke/status/1277735412664946688 and note that he is already talking of the next pandemic, saying it ‘will’ be taken seriously next time..

38884 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 6, #683 of 1687 🔗

So, basically a mad man with massive global power and influence.

What do we do?

38938 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #684 of 1687 🔗

At times like this, I remember that Goldfinger line, “No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die”.

38903 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Hayes, #685 of 1687 🔗

Nah. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks …

38973 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 2, #686 of 1687 🔗

The biggest duck of all is in charge of Wales right now.
Quack quack.
Am waiting eagerly for dinner time at Mrs. Bond’s.

39052 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #687 of 1687 🔗

The term conspiracy theory first coined by the CIA to denigrate those who did not believe the narrative.

Research mockingbird media as well, that is also CIA funded.

39631 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Awkward Git, #688 of 1687 🔗

I am well aware of the weaponisation of the term conspiracy theory by the CIA and Operation Mockingbird.

39111 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #689 of 1687 🔗

too many coincidences to not be a conspiracy I think.

39632 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to watashi, #690 of 1687 🔗

If you have evidence of a conspiracy, the obvious and responsible thing to do would be to publish it.

39123 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #691 of 1687 🔗

I too doubt conspiracies, especially the idea Bill Gates is somehow pulling all the strings behind the scenes. What’s the strategy? What’s the endgame? What are the fallbacks when the populations wake up, as wake up they will?

They sound neat, but the only conspiracies I have ever discovered are those when organisations, which includes governments, try to cover over their own foul-ups and/or incompetence.

39153 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nick Rose, #692 of 1687 🔗

Research khazarian mafia, that will lead you strange places.

38863 ▶▶ Bella, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #693 of 1687 🔗

I’m with you Miriam, as some will shout ‘None dare call it conspiracy’. History is littered with bloody (sic) conspiracies, why do people think we are immune (sic, again) from them? I think we are conditioned to walk around in blinkers and to believe that all is (just about) well with the world and, in any case, we Brits don’t take part in that sort of thing. We are stout defenders of liberty after all, we defeated Hitler, with a little help from our friends. Actually the Soviets by and large defeated Hitler we were (then) a plucky, spunky little country who refused to capitulate (and I am proud of that.) Not sure I’d say the same for us today. The way everyone ran for cover at the start of this ‘crisis’ (and collaborated) would have suggested a rapid surrender to the Nazis back then. You can hide things in plain sight as long as the population believes that everything (pretty much) is hunky dory. No Stalags or Gulag here. Yet. For, as Mr. Orwell said, ‘ We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it . You might find this interesting:
https://amgreatness.com/2020/06/26/none-dare-call-it-conspiracy-and-its-insights-for-today/

38880 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella, #694 of 1687 🔗

Thanks, Bella. I have just printed it off to read – looks good!

38900 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #695 of 1687 🔗

Gates is not the head, sadly. He’s a gopher/functionary

The real bad guys (girls/aliens/demons/AImachines ?) keep well out of sight.

38955 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #696 of 1687 🔗

The physicist David Robert Grimes estimated the time it would take for a conspiracy to be exposed based on the number of people involved.[88][89] His calculations used data from the PRISM surveillance program, the Tuskegee syphilis experiment, and the FBI forensic scandal. Grimes estimated that:

a Moon landing hoax would require the involvement of 411,000 people and would be exposed within 3.68 years;
climate-change fraud would require 405,000 people and would be exposed within 3.70 years;
a vaccination conspiracy would require a minimum of 22,000 people (without drug companies) and would be exposed within at least 3.15 years and at most 34.78 years depending on the number involved;
a conspiracy to suppress a cure for cancer would require 714,000 people and would be exposed within 3.17 years.

I expect you to be proved right or wrong between 3.15 and 34.78 years hence, after all, there’s nothing wrong with a bit of computer modelling using a lot of random data, is there?

38987 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bruno, 2, #697 of 1687 🔗

That’s like saying given enough monkeys and keyboards they’ll eventually type out the complete works of Shakespeare. According to a mathematician called David Osselton: the sheer enormity of the task makes it meaningless as an explanatory principle. It would take a million million monkeys a million million years to type out the name, William Shakespeare. And to obtain two lines from one of Shakespeare’s plays would require 10 to the power 150 strokes on a fifty character keyboard. i.e. billions of billions of times more than the number of atoms in the entire universe. Perhaps Mr. Ferguson would like to see Mr. Oselton’s paper?

39635 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Bella, #698 of 1687 🔗

Actually it would take relatively little time if there was a selection mechanism.

39495 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Bruno, #699 of 1687 🔗

One does not need to be “in the know” to carry a function that serves a higher agenda. In my experience of a bazillion customer experiences and lengthy complaints and ombudsman battles…. the employees actually carrying out the work rarely know their arse from their elbow about what goes on in their own company.

38828 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 20, #700 of 1687 🔗

So yet again the airbridge scheme descends into a farce. We were promised that by the 29th June we would know where we stand re trips abroad. We don’t. Could this government be any more useless? I’m off to Greece anyway shortly, via Frankfurt if necessary, and I won’t come back until this nonsense is over. You would think these delaying tactics were being deliberately drawn out so that by October nobody wants to go away anyhow.

Meanwhile there is a daily arrival on PIA from Pakistan into Manchester which constantly carries infected passengers, some of whom have been ill enough to be taken straight to hospital.

Truly had more than I can take now. Going to sort out a permanent move abroad.

38830 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 8, #701 of 1687 🔗

Very sorry to hear. Everything is descending into a farce and it doesn’t look very promising.

39145 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #702 of 1687 🔗

These aren’t just crazy times, they are scary times aren’t they.

38837 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #703 of 1687 🔗

We too are looking at a move abroad. Just on the Greece thing, you can still get insurance even if travelling against FCO advice:

https://www.insurewithease.com/high-risk-travel-insurance

I have arranged trips to Iraq, Iran etc and these guys have provided cover for my clients. They also do cover for countries where FCO advise against travel. Not sure if of interest.

39142 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Sarigan, #704 of 1687 🔗

Ah thank you. That does look useful!

39107 ▶▶ watashi, replying to CarrieAH, #705 of 1687 🔗

can I come with you?

39140 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to watashi, 2, #706 of 1687 🔗

I’ll make room in my suitcases for whoever wants to come!

38834 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #707 of 1687 🔗

They should be shouting this more from the rooftops. We will see more of this and especially come October:

https://twitter.com/i/events/1278238755346804736

38841 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 27, #708 of 1687 🔗

Indeed. I am staggered at the general ignorance of the populace of even basic economics. They truly believe that the mooted re-opening on Saturday will represent some sort of epic renaissance.

Someone just remarked that I didn’t look “happy” and I pointed out why (police harassment, the prospect of being snitched on again etc. etc.) . It’s as though I am living in some horrific hybrid of Nineteen Eighty Four and Brave New World. And no-one else gives a damn as they hurtle towards surrendering their liberty for good.

38852 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 13, #709 of 1687 🔗

I agree with you. I want to weep at people and institutions who are unaware that they’re signing their own death warrants.

The re-opening on Saturday won’t do anything. People will flock to the pubs and museums of course but once they realised that the treatment is no different to what they’re experiencing now in shops then they will simply stay away and leave these pubs, restaurants and museums to put the final nail into their coffins.

38860 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #710 of 1687 🔗

I know. I think if I hear one more person say “oh, you’ll be back to normal on Saturday”, I think I shall scream. I have three months’ worth of profits to try and claw back and, you can bet your bottom dollar that the weather will now turn!

And what is laughable is that the road closures necessitated by the BID’s egregious belief that thousands would descend to spend, spend, spend has rendered it even more quiet. Notwithstanding the difficulty in actually getting into the town, who wants to shop while being treated like Typhoid Mary – no-one (but they and the shopkeepers just don’t get that!). Every single shop here (bar one naughty non-believer!), has queuing systems, hand sanitiser, traffic lights – fgs and bossy-boots door-Karens.

38862 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 10, #711 of 1687 🔗

I sympathise and well said about the weather – it will turn and what will they do then? No-one will want to queue in the rain or any bad weather and you can guarantee that there will be violence if a shop, restaurant or museum staff throw people out and force them to queue in the rain.

That would put me off and having spoken to friends and random strangers that’s why they’ve not been going to the high street – its not worth it for the additional stress and misery that these “guidelines” have created.

38904 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 8, #712 of 1687 🔗

Our county council,Lincolnshire,has now decided it is a good idea to flush several hundred thousands of pounds of taxpayers money down the drain to make several towns more appealing and ‘safe’ for shoppers and cyclists.
This means shutting some town centre roads,reducing the width of others to allow for wider pavements for better anti-social distancing and adding more signs giving orders.This apparently,according to their ‘research’,is what people want to feel safe so they can flock back to the shops.
Oh,and it’s only temporary,yes of course it is.

38911 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 10, #713 of 1687 🔗

Sorry – tossers! They just do not get it, do they?

Saw on my way into work today, some poor sod try to get down one of the roads that is closed and looking on quizzically. And the BID are left wondering why there aren’t queues outside every shop. Well, I can tell ’em, it’s because they are treating their customers as sub-human, that’s why! Grateful to hear the most oft used phrase in my ‘takeaway’ coffee shop – “It’s so nice to do something normal” followed by “is your toilet really open?”!

39101 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Paul, 6, #714 of 1687 🔗

People who need all that s..t to feel safe won’t be flocking anywhere. They think they’re going to die every time they creep into Tesco’s.
People who don’t need all that s..t won’t flock anywhere. because they don’t want all that s..t.
So what’s with all that s..t?

39106 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Paul, 3, #715 of 1687 🔗

They’ve obviously got some other agenda. Measures like this won’t encourage the scared sheeple back.

39158 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to watashi, 2, #716 of 1687 🔗

I’m not sure the local councils realise this.

39157 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, 1, #717 of 1687 🔗

My local council newsletter said they were doing exactly the same.

Suspect government grant might be involved and by have to be spent on such nonsense.

38926 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 11, #718 of 1687 🔗

Oh, and other than the one naughty-step business 🙂 the garage fixing my car seems to be just paying lip-service to the ‘rules’. No sanitising of car, no sanitising of hands/keys or taking your temperature (a friend was subjected to this at a Ford Dealership recently) and I was allowed use of their courtesy car no questions asked. A beacon of sanity amidst a sea of craziness.

38963 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 2, #719 of 1687 🔗

fYou are a beacon yourself, Karen. Carry on shining.

38985 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 3, #720 of 1687 🔗

“Karen”? how dare you! 🙂

39434 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 1, #721 of 1687 🔗

Sorry, don’t know what came over me! 😿

39074 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to kh1485, 1, #722 of 1687 🔗

Welcome back and keep on keeping on

39088 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to chris c, 1, #723 of 1687 🔗

Thanks 🙂

38891 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #724 of 1687 🔗

Remember to support Marston’s pubs !

38957 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #725 of 1687 🔗

Sadly we don’t have one in my area 🙁

We have a Fuller’s one.

39213 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #726 of 1687 🔗

I didn’t know of any around here – a strong Harveys area – then I found one about 7 miles away.

It’s a tough job supporting lockdown rebellion by drinking shedloads of ale – but someone’s got to do it ! 🙂

39255 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #727 of 1687 🔗

We can support them by buying Marston’s ale!

39154 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #728 of 1687 🔗

They won’t be able to flock if they have to book.

I think some of the would-be pub-goers haven’t sussed this yet and I think we should expect trouble on Saturday.

38855 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to kh1485, 3, #729 of 1687 🔗

Well said. I would add The Crucible to your horrific hybrid list.

38883 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, 8, #730 of 1687 🔗

I give a damn kh, and feel exactly as you do. As I said somewhere else ‘resist or capitulate.’ Wish I could suggest some way of getting organised, but since we are all spied upon I don’t know how you go about it. Unfortunately the conditions don’t seem to be ripe for an uprising, most of the population are complacent so don’t give a toss. I seem to be quoting George Orwell a lot today. ‘ Will the man in the street ever feel that freedom of the mind is as important and as much in need of being defended as his daily bread?’

38895 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 9, #731 of 1687 🔗

Thanks Bella, I know you do, it’s all the others around me I worry about! When I try and tell people what they are giving up (had a nasty altercation with a couple of hedge-jumpers yesterday) they just look on blankly or become abusive. It really is frightening, the compliance and ignorance and the only resistance I see – other than a bit in my shop – is here. I’ve asked it before, where is the charismatic leader to get us out of this and around whom we can coalesce?

38899 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to kh1485, 3, #732 of 1687 🔗

You may not agree with my post earlier this morning but I’ve been saying similar things to you and Bella in a different way.

38980 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #733 of 1687 🔗

Yes, and we’re on the same page Miriam.

38964 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella, 1, #734 of 1687 🔗

What mind?

39110 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella, 4, #735 of 1687 🔗

More of them need to feel threatened. So many still don’t see this as the power grab it is. They feel that it was somehow necessary to contain the virus, to flatten the curve, so protect the NHS. All BS and they just can’t see it.

I’ve said this before, but I feel like I’ve slipped through a wormhole into a parallel universe. I very much want to return to the one I came from…

39160 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 4, #736 of 1687 🔗

Wish I could suggest some way of getting organised, but since we are all spied upon I don’t know how you go about it.

This has been on my mind a lot recently. We seem to be neatly stitched up.

Incompetent government?
Don’t you believe it. Someone sure knows what they’re doing.

38894 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to kh1485, 3, #737 of 1687 🔗

We give a damn. Stay strong!

38915 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #738 of 1687 🔗

I’m really trying to but, boy, it’s difficult!

38967 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 7, #739 of 1687 🔗

We’re here for you. Bear in mind that whatever the crisis, most people have always reacted like cowards and lickspittles, though they don’t admit to it afterwards. It’s the resolute few who preserve and re-establish liberty, and who set the tone for the new age.

Just NEVER give up.
Bad times pass.

38989 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 4, #740 of 1687 🔗

Thanks Annie. Always been a contrarian and sometimes it’s a lonely place to be. Very grateful for my regular customers who seem to be LS also. I keep that quote in my mind, the one I think you mentioned last week: “Truth is the Daughter of Time …”

39103 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kh1485, 2, #741 of 1687 🔗

Had another “discussion” on Guido concerning the power grab. Many just don’t see it for it really is. I pointed out that if this wasn’t a power grab, they wouldn’t be locking down Leicester. And the three week national lockdown would have lasted three weeks, and not the fourteen it’s lasted so far.

Roll on Thursday.

38838 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 6, #742 of 1687 🔗

Darren Grimes has set up an excellent Youtube channel called Reasoned. He is interviewing all sorts of interesting people: Dr David Starkey, Douglas Carswell, Brendan O’Neill, Laurence Fox and others.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX469QlvW5gdPCMek-d-kuQ

38848 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #743 of 1687 🔗

Just watched his interview with David Starkey last night – learned a lot and it was phenomenal. Grimes is also an excellent interviewer and its clear he does his research on his guests and lets them speak.

38916 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #744 of 1687 🔗

He’s a top bloke, from my dad’s home town.

38961 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #745 of 1687 🔗

I first came across him when I went to the British Library’s exhibition about Henry VIII back in 2009 which he curated – it taught me more about the man. His series “Music and Monarchy” was excellent as well!

39184 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #746 of 1687 🔗

This guy’s great. Hadn’t come across him before. Thanks for linking that.

38842 Arronjohn, 6, #747 of 1687 🔗

As a high risk person I have NOT once stop work, I have NOT once stoped going out, and I do not wear mask, I have eyes and I can clearly see there IS NOT a killer bug about, in Fact by all accounts it’s absolutely no different to a flu.

38856 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 42, #748 of 1687 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/30/bradford-oldham-watch-list-amid-fears-local-lockdowns-could/

Bradford and Oldham on ‘watch list’ amid fears more local lockdowns could be required
—-

My God, isn’t this just awful. A ‘watchlist’. Don’t you dare be free, don’t you dare live your life, your town could be next! We now live under the thumb of a bloated, oversized state upon which many, many more people will be forced to rely financially in the future due to the economic bloodbath and haemorrhage of jobs. Constantly living in fear, looking over one’s shoulder, unable to make future plans or have such plans uprooted at a moment’s notice, due to further lockdowns implemented by government fiat. Shut up, stay inside, take this government money, don’t question, don’t think, don’t live.

I’m determined to keep my spirits up. I refuse to let these bastards grind me down. I refuse to feel depressed and anxious after months of feeling like that already. Things may still be shut and limited but I am determined to live as fully as I can within those limitations. I am no longer physically separated from my boyfriend because we are ‘support bubbling’ (loathe that phrase) and I currently have a little job as a commissioned artist, one of my most-loved hobbies (but I am still desperately applying for part-time jobs and I will not give up on that). I am watching all the Bond films in chronological order with my bf and we have recently got into retro video gaming. I exercise regularly and my bf has started running for the first time lately, after being the least sporty person in the entire world. We meet family members and friends. I am starting a graduate job very soon (but I do worry this will disappear as the economy tanks). We are enjoying this time of just doing what we like because my generation will likely be grinding away until we’re 80 once we do finally get a job so may as well enjoy having lots of free time now.

I have lots to be grateful for right now and it is by holding on to these things that I won’t let these arseholes break my spirit. I advise everyone on here to do the same whenever they feel lost. I’m young, I have my whole life ahead of me, and I’ll be damned if they think they can stamp on me and that I’ll never get back up again and rebuild the world they’ve torn down.

38870 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Poppy, 5, #749 of 1687 🔗

‘We are enjoying this time of just doing what we like because my generation will likely be grinding away until we’re 80.’ Resist or capitulate Polly.

38898 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to Poppy, 7, #750 of 1687 🔗

I love your posts Poppy. Keep them coming! 😀

38960 ▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 8, #751 of 1687 🔗

They won’t be stamping on you, Poppy.
You’ll be stamping on them. Look out your sharpest high heels.

38966 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 5, #752 of 1687 🔗

Polly, stay strong. I enjoy reading your posts and insight, keep ’em coming.

39351 ▶▶ Kathryn, replying to Poppy, #753 of 1687 🔗

Well said Poppy. Glad to hear you’re now with your boyfriend too.

38865 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #754 of 1687 🔗

Client emails requesting quotes for a ski holiday next March. Duly provided.

The reply:

I think we are a little scared of booking and co-vid coming back…

38869 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Sarigan, 3, #755 of 1687 🔗

Umm so why did they request the quote if they’re that concerned?

38930 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to ambwozere, 2, #756 of 1687 🔗

My point exactly, they clearly must have had doubts before asking so have just wasted hours of my time for nothing. May well send an invoice for hours spent.

38933 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Sarigan, 2, #757 of 1687 🔗

I would invoice as you’ve done the leg work for them. Honestly people are crazy.

38877 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 2, #758 of 1687 🔗

I’v just booked flights (£50 pp) to Geneva for 9 of us who are skiing in Cervinia in January, the appts I’v booked dont take payment until mid/end of December, and there is free cancellation up till then, i won’t sort out transfers until nearer the time. I have recently had the cash back for our flights to Barcelona for last March ski trip to Pas de la Casa. There are ways of sorting trips with minimal risk…
Your holiday providers should offer some reassurance.

38931 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Major Panic, 1, #759 of 1687 🔗

The company they wish to travel with is fully financially protected and money security is not the issue at all.

38941 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 1, #760 of 1687 🔗

Are your clients aware of the risks of skiing – mush safer to stay at home

39128 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Major Panic, 3, #761 of 1687 🔗

They probably stand more chance of having an accident skiing than they do of catching Covid 🙄

38888 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Sarigan, 5, #762 of 1687 🔗

We’ve just booked a holiday for the end of this month to a European country where we lived for 12 years, in order to see friends. I’ve emailed the travel company to ask about masks at the airport and on the plane. I asked if there were any exemptions as on buses or trains, whether a loose scarf would act as a face covering as per government advice and finally whether they had done a risk assessment on the dangers of wearing masks for long periods of time (over five hours). I’m awaiting a reply.
We’ve also booked a hot meal on the plane which, if eaten very, very slowly, should mean that we are able to be without a muzzle for most of the trip!

38956 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 6, #763 of 1687 🔗

Times on Saturday reported people being told not to eat or drink while on a train because it would mean moving (sic) their muzzles.
Anyone for London to Aberdeen?

38969 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 5, #764 of 1687 🔗

Well that would open a can of worms as what will happen if a passenger passes out due to dehydration or starvation? Apart from the muzzle wearing.

They’re leaving themselves open to a whole load of court cases.

39082 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #765 of 1687 🔗

Good point! How many successful court cases for incidents like this will it take though, before the ‘guidance’ is scrapped?

39258 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #766 of 1687 🔗

Your guess is as good as mine. I think people who will take these companies to court for their insane policies should really fleece them. That might make the government sit up and take notice.

38984 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, 2, #767 of 1687 🔗

You’re in Wales Annie, you’re lucky if a train even turns up, and even when one does they’re that packed you cannot move on them, let alone eat.

39105 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to annie, 1, #768 of 1687 🔗

The information about hot meals and on board menu came up as part of the new ”Covid” measures on the travel company website. OH wondered whether they had simply not updated their original website so I went back to check just in case. Obviously eating at 38,000 feet is far less dangerous than eating on a train!

39168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, #769 of 1687 🔗

Maybe they’ve had the legal implications pointed out to them. Air travel is very dehydrating.

39166 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 2, #770 of 1687 🔗

They should force the idiots who invent these rules to sit in a mask on a train for several hours – and not even drink!

38878 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 21, #771 of 1687 🔗

Albert Einstein is widely credited with saying, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”

More lockdown it is then…..

39156 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Major Panic, 2, #772 of 1687 🔗

Didn’t he also say “only 2 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity and I’m not sure about the universe”?

39169 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, 1, #773 of 1687 🔗

Depends what results you want …..

39222 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 1, #774 of 1687 🔗

Help! My feeble brain sees that by dose of Einstein’s logic N fergusons flawed lockdown model is sane… doing the same thing over and over again, but getting different results each time.

39279 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, #775 of 1687 🔗

Good point

38885 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 9, #776 of 1687 🔗

Symptom of ‘covid19 – headaches.

Problem with masks – headaches.

Just sayin’ …

38929 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 1, #777 of 1687 🔗

The weird thing about this virus that its symptoms and anything and everything under the sun. Hence the confusion with regards to Covid, cold, cough, flu, fever even hay fever!!!

Not to mention this gives credence to those conspiracy theories that countries who are making face masks mandatory are doing it to weaken people’s immune systems and hence easy to manufacture a “second wave” using the basic flu season.

39023 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #778 of 1687 🔗

SUMS IT UP NICELY…..

38954 ▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 5, #779 of 1687 🔗

Symptom of useless government and criminal lockdown – BIG HEADACHE.

38979 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to annie, #780 of 1687 🔗

Annie – you mentioned you had a blog a while back – care to give the URL?

39097 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Melangell, #781 of 1687 🔗

https://nestashouse.livejournal.com/
But there hasn’t been anything posted there fir a while, too busy over here!

38890 Ross Hendry, replying to Ross Hendry, 2, #782 of 1687 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/30/around-third-no-coronavirus-symptoms-may-have-developed-immunity/

So why not roll out random sample T-Cell testing in Leicester immediately? These poor folk don’t need lockdown to be extended unless absolutely necessary. (My guess is that it isn’t.)

38922 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ross Hendry, 1, #783 of 1687 🔗

While a blood test for Covid-19 antibodies can yield a result in as little as half an hour, the T-cell tests carried out at Karolinska can take as long as six days to set up, making commercial testing for T cell immunity unlikely in the short term.

38946 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Nobody2020, #784 of 1687 🔗

Is there a reliable test that can tell if someone has had C19, and doesn’t miss any who have had it?

38983 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Major Panic, 1, #785 of 1687 🔗

I’ve been wonering the same thing. I’m not sure if the current tests are specific enough to find C-19 as opposed to just flagging up similar coronaviruses.

38923 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Ross Hendry, #786 of 1687 🔗

i thought most of the people who had c19 – had none of the antibodies the test looks for

39048 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Major Panic, 6, #787 of 1687 🔗

I started a summer cold yesterday. Were I to be tested I (and I have no inclination) would it be identified as corona virus (since that’s what common colds are.) And then would they test everyone around me and then lock down my manor after 0.14% positive testing? For the benefit of the 77th Brigade, I live on the moon.

39050 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bella, 4, #788 of 1687 🔗

avoid testing

39196 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Major Panic, 1, #789 of 1687 🔗

Probably about 80% or so get some antibodies but often in low levels (which may be below the threshold of the test) and they drop even lower in a couple of months. Given that the peak in the UK was around March 23rd you would expect to find pretty low rates of antibodies now.

39265 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to guy153, #790 of 1687 🔗

So antibody tests might have been useful once, and now they aren’t? No wonder they have been intent on denying them.

39317 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to chris c, #791 of 1687 🔗

They were just too late getting their act together as with everything else. PCR tests would also have been useful a few months ago.

39025 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Ross Hendry, 11, #792 of 1687 🔗

This isn’t an open air prison. Lockdown is not just unnecessary it is a violation of our liberty that should never have been accepted.

39190 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Ross Hendry, #793 of 1687 🔗

T-cell tests are a bit more of a laborious lab-based process than the antibody or PCR test kits. But who knows perhaps they are doing this. I expect it will be ready in time for Christmas 2022 along with the track and trace app.

39266 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to guy153, 1, #794 of 1687 🔗

Isn;t that a bit optimistic?

38901 Ten, replying to Ten, 29, #795 of 1687 🔗

In 1884 the people of Leicester protested against the compuslory smallpox vaccine which was supported not only internationally but also by the Leicester council because of its ineffectiveness and potentially lethality. It killed more people than it saved and was unsuccessful because people received the vaccine and still contracted the disease. The protesters were convinced that sanitation and isolation were the key to controlling small pox.

In the years that followed, the town councillors and the people developed an isolation protocol for smallpox cases called the ‘Leicester method’ which proved highly effective. By 1890 vaccinations in Leicester were close to zero. Their method was so effective there were very small outbreaks compared with other regions that had 95% of the population vaccinated.

In a weird twist of fate over 100 years later, I cant but help draw the comparisons to now. People have been forced through fear into compulsory lockdown that seems counter intuitive. Perhaps the people of Leicester will find the spirit of 1884 to highlight this hypocrisy in our modern day situation.

38944 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Ten, 2, #796 of 1687 🔗

Wow, this is very interesting.

39359 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ten, #798 of 1687 🔗

I have the book. Very interesting read.

39219 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ten, #799 of 1687 🔗

Brilliant post thank you. History is watching us as we watch the past.
The spirit is their in people today.

39263 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ten, #800 of 1687 🔗

Fascinating. That year is part of my specialisation in history but never heard of this, thank you so much.

39642 ▶▶▶ Ten, replying to Bart Simpson, #801 of 1687 🔗

My pleasure. For some reason conventional history seems to neglect these movements to replace them with more convenient ones to those in power. Hmmm…(deep in thought) let me think why that might be ?!

38925 Storm, replying to Storm, #802 of 1687 🔗

Would anyone a little more scientifically minded than myself be able to take a look at this article and see how it compares with the previous claim that masks are ineffective? There are a few studies contained within this link:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

Let it be known that I am extremely sceptical of the effectivity of masks so reading this has me scratching my head. Many thanks!

39187 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Storm, 4, #803 of 1687 🔗

There’s no actual evidence given in there other than the obvious which is that yes masks do reduce the number of droplets in front of your mouth.

It’s still an unproven assumption that you have any reasonable chance of catching Covid just from breathing in a few droplets directly from a passer-by in a public area. It’s more likely that any airborne spread arises by spending time with an infected person in an enclosed space where the concentration in the air builds up. Masks would only prevent that if they could actually trap viruses, which some can, but probably not a homemade one or the basic kind that most people are using.

Masks probably do help in certain circumstances but you have to balance that against the possible harm that wearing one might do to someone who is infected by helping to spread the virus to their own lungs. There’s no cast-iron evidence of this effect either but it is equally plausible.

The best thing is lots of fresh air and the guidelines would be better to recommend things like opening the windows.

39192 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to guy153, 4, #804 of 1687 🔗

Exactly. Instead of all this social distancing bollocks in workplaces, the government should be instigating some sort of ventilation policy.

39203 ▶▶▶ Storm, replying to guy153, 2, #805 of 1687 🔗

Thanks! Great analysis of it. Much appreciated. I do agree that the best medicine are the tried and true methods of sunlight, physical activity and fresh air – of course eating healthy is always a plus!
Cheers

39356 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to guy153, 1, #806 of 1687 🔗

masks do reduce the number of droplets in front of your mouth.

I would contend that they don’t reduce but concentrate the droplets, thus constituting a hazard to your own health.

38935 Bella, replying to Bella, 21, #807 of 1687 🔗

BBC (I wasn’t watching I was just passing your honour) announcing a slew of job losses today ‘because of the corona virus’. FFS!!. NO!!!! Because of the lockdown. Is this another bulshit narrative we’re going to have to suffer?

38939 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bella, 11, #808 of 1687 🔗

They’ll never blame it on lockdown as in BBC world lockdown was the right thing to do. Even when we know it wasn’t.

38945 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 18, #809 of 1687 🔗

Exactly. My MP expressed regret at how my business was affected by the virus. I put her straight that it was her government’s response was what did for my business. Funnily enough, never heard back. No doubt she will be around on Saturday for various photo ops!

Blimey, all kicking off outside my shop – LS against believers – fun, fun, fun!

38982 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bella, 6, #810 of 1687 🔗

Oh dear. Looks like the BBC are willing to go down with the government’s sinking ship

39029 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #811 of 1687 🔗

Do hope so. On both counts.

39081 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #812 of 1687 🔗

Good riddance to both of them.

39030 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bella, 8, #813 of 1687 🔗

Wigan Athletic going into receivership due in part to “covid-19”. Well, no, it’s because of what was DONE in response that caused this.

First part of the 12 step program – admitting you have a problem. The problem here is the actions.

39079 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella, 5, #814 of 1687 🔗

EVerybody knows it’s lockdown causing the job losses.

39183 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #815 of 1687 🔗

WE do. The others will have to engage brain for that.

39207 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella, #816 of 1687 🔗

A small silver lining!

39274 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella, 1, #817 of 1687 🔗

In a word, yes.

Repeat after me

lockdown good, virus bad

or you will be sent for regrooving

38943 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to ambwozere, 3, #819 of 1687 🔗

Except they’re not two metres apart at the corners are they? Man, how ridiculous can you get?!

39181 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ambwozere, #820 of 1687 🔗

Ugh!

38947 Deb Hoyle, replying to Deb Hoyle, 12, #821 of 1687 🔗

Toby, thank you for enabling us to express our disgust at this horrendous destruction. I am very worried about one of my daughters who is cracking up with three young children. Two who should be in school. We are in 1984, George Orwell territory and isn’t going to be a pretty ending.

39206 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Deb Hoyle, 7, #822 of 1687 🔗

So true. Until this year I thought that the Brexit attempt was going to be the biggest issue to affect the UK in my lifetime, and I was pleased that it would finally be resolved in my lifetime; by comparison, what is now being done over covid19 (here and around the world) clearly dwarves the significance of Brexit. We have never had much real democracy, but now it looks as if the world is everywhere heading for tyranny. The Heart of Darkness has truly arrived in the West!

39304 ▶▶▶ ThreeCheersForTegnell, replying to IanE, 2, #823 of 1687 🔗

Very true, I feared Brexit would doom us by it going ahead and centralising mroe power in whitehall, never dreamed we’d see the whitehall lot carrying out this coup against liberty while we were still in the transition period.

38949 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 10, #824 of 1687 🔗

someone from Barking & Dagenham council telling Bolton on Sky that media need to be responsible in their reporting (in respect of scaring people)…. who let him on then?

38958 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Major Panic, 9, #825 of 1687 🔗

SKY TV are a despicable company. I raised multiple complaint with the regarding their support of BLM and Anti-Semitism. They will not condemn the Anti-Semitic comments from BLM, even though they are the same as comments by Labour under Corbyn. So I have had no option but to leave SKY.

I have now also contacted many Jewish organisations in the UK, explaining the SKY TV’s stance on supporting Anti-Semitism, to try and get more people involved in speaking out as this Anit-Semitism has been completely by the MSM as it doesn’t follow their narrative.

38965 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 9, #826 of 1687 🔗

I should also say if there are any SKY TV customers on here, please make your complaints to SKY, and if you are not listened too, the vote with your feet.

It is unacceptable to legitimise one form of hate to appease another.

38968 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to JohnB, #827 of 1687 🔗

I’m heading back to RT – I prefer their indoctrination

38971 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #828 of 1687 🔗

Just flicked over to RT where they are discussing the dangers of lockdown, how refreshing…
Interviewing that ex-NY times reporter, alex berenson, who wrote the pamphlet about lockdown – I’ve got it but have lent it out

38981 ▶▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to JohnB, 5, #829 of 1687 🔗

I am also cancelling my Sky Sports deal and for the same reason. I will not watch golf pundits wearing such labels. I turn on to watch golf not to watch virtue signalling.

38986 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Locked down and out, 7, #830 of 1687 🔗

I cancelled it and told them why.They explained that Sky are opposed to racism.I politely explained that BLM have nothing to do with anti racism and are a communist front.That was the end of the conversation.

38988 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Locked down and out, 7, #831 of 1687 🔗

I know what you mean. I watch sport to get away from politics, but now no matter what you watch it is being forced down your throat in some way. I have a season ticket for a non-league football club, if they start doing this stupid virtue signalling at the beginning of the season I will be asking for a refund.

38994 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 6, #832 of 1687 🔗

Well done Skipper. We should all do our bit to demonetise the supporters of extremism, whether it be Sky or Yorkshire Tea or the Premier League.

39028 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to OKUK, 3, #833 of 1687 🔗

Maybe we should compile a list of organisations to boycott.

39152 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella, 3, #834 of 1687 🔗

Hi Bella, that’s a great idea. Then if you are a customer of any of them complain to them and if they give you a shit response like SKY then publicise their response as much as possible.

These companies have a big responsibility, I believe the people in them are blinkered and stupid woke people, who are that up there own virtue signalling arses that they don’t realise that they themselves are spreading hate and division.

39199 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella, #835 of 1687 🔗

Yes – though I don’t think much would be left!

39017 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Major Panic, 1, #836 of 1687 🔗

Don’t you now mean someone who used to be from Barking & Dagenham council?

38970 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 9, #837 of 1687 🔗

Saw an article on the news this morning about a protest near where I used to live where people have carved the words ‘White Lives Matter’ into a hillside.

White Lives Matter is a truism that cannot be disputed by any sane, rational person, but that obviously doesn’t include the local woke police who are investigating it as a ‘racially motivated hate crime’ – no I am not making it up. So what conclusion can you draw from this? That as far as police are concerned white lives don’t matter?

Most of then are white, so is 87% of the UK population but they don’t matter? The 3% of the population that are black apparently matter so much that supporting their supposed oppression is considered so eminently virtuous that it absolves you from nearly all UK laws short of murder.

So clearly if stating the obvious – that the lives of 87% of your population matter – is a hate crime for which you can be incarcerated, then we need some other form of protest with which we can circumvent the ‘new reality’. So as an opening shot, how about this:

“Minorities Don’t Matter Anyway”

Now clearly this is wrong, because they do, but trying to get ‘minorities don’t matter any more than the great majority’ is not very pithy and difficult to fit onto your mug/t-shirt. There is another advantage of this slogan. Its acronym is MDMA so with that on your t-shirt, when the storm troopers come to arrest you, all you have to say is that you are demonstrating for the legalisation of amphetamines, and as long as you don’t have any on you, you will probably get away with just a caution.

39021 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Old Bill, 2, #838 of 1687 🔗

Ah, so a genuine thought crime. Not what you do or say, but what you are assumed to be thinking. Very guardian.

39135 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Old Bill, 1, #839 of 1687 🔗

Can you give some examples of what is written and what you think people mean?
And what’s your take on the meaning of Black Lives Matter, from the general populace and the BLM organisation?

39296 ▶▶ ThreeCheersForTegnell, replying to Old Bill, #840 of 1687 🔗

When you see “BLM” written anywhere just add three letters “T-o-o”. Then if there’s space add some mentions that everyone’s liberties matter and that lockdown has shown us how police and government have far too much power.

38976 Bazza, replying to Bazza, 21, #841 of 1687 🔗

Hi all.

Ive been reading all your comments for weeks now and this is the 1st time ive been compelled to write.

Ive been growing more and more frustrated as this has gone on and at the start lots of friends and family were on board with me.

However over the last few weeks ive noticed that this supporr has dwindled and now I’m getting the blank stare and general ‘glazing over’ look (maybe im just boring!?)

Im getting more and more depressed at the populations increasing acceptance of this new normal and the unwillingness to question any more.

Even my wife is conforming!!!

Im trying to keep my spirits up but its just so depressing.

Thanks to Toby and you guys for being a light in the fog

39116 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bazza, 8, #842 of 1687 🔗

Oh I know that feeling Bazza, my mum is a relative sceptic but at nearly 74 understandably she is a little cautious. My sister seems totally unbothered and will just comply because it’s easier.

So that leaves me as the only truly sceptical person in the house. Luckily I have a couple of close friends who feel the same as me who I’ve been seeing since the end of May normally.

But I think people get tired of the whole situation and it becomes easier to give in than keep fighting. I’ve totally had enough now and want to give up some days but I feel giving up makes no sense so I keep on fighting.

All of us here on LS feel like this, just keep fighting and gain small victories. We will win through.

39204 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to ambwozere, 3, #843 of 1687 🔗

I’m finding that most people I meet clearly don’t believe it, but they are not willing to say that openly. They express their real opinion by not observing distancing except out of politeness. There’s better hygiene, of course, but that is different.

38996 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 21, #844 of 1687 🔗

So, I’ve just sent an email to my local councillor.
Here’s a copy. I’ve killed the links so it’s postable but the Drummond and OffG ones are easy to find, or you can copy and paste. The rest generally have relevant quotes.

Dear Cllr
I wonder if you’ve seen and read this in the Local Government Chronicle. https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/lgc-briefing/children-wont-play-ball-on-social-distancing-29-06-2020/&nbsp ; It is an excellent summary of why the lockdown rules are contradictory, inoperable and ridiculous.

The assumption tends to be that guidelines from Government MUST be followed. This is not actually the case and is a deliberate effort to mislead. In its defence against the Judicial Review request by Simon Dolan, the Government has declared that the guidelines and advice are not law, have no force of law and are not enforceable. The PM reiterated this in his public statement about the new guidelines for the June 15th pseudo-relaxation.

So, guidelines are exactly that, guidelines. They are subject to interpretation and it’s your duty to interpret them for the true benefit of your constituents. You and the other councillors are the elected direct representatives of the local people, and therefore will be instrumental in how this area gets back on its feet economically and socially. Fear-driven desire to comply with the full extent of the suffocating guidelines cannot possibly achieve this. What is currently holding back many businesses is fear of local authority representatives who are keen to enforce the most extreme aspects of the guidelines. Not only is this preventing many from reopening but is definitely causing potential customers to stay well away.

Here’s a quote from an NHS advice sheet:
Face masks do not protect you from COVID-19. It is much more important to wash your hands properly and avoid touching your face and eyes. Specific types of face masks can protect health professionals looking after people with the virus. However, these people have training in how to use the masks and will only use them for a short period of time. In some cases, doctors will ask people with symptoms to wear a mask to help protect othersas a short term measure (. https://www.bsuh.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2016/09/Cancer-Patients-FAQs-for-website-COVID-19-1.pdf#:~:text=Face%20masks%20do%20not%20protect,people%20with%20the%20virus .)

And from an RCT reported in the BMJ: Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. ( https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.long )

So we need to ask why, after 14 weeks without masks, we are suddenly expected to wear something that is not only useless but could actually be harmful to our health. You’ll find the answer to that question in the area of psychology.

The lockdown in Leicester is clearly political, sending a message of strength to a lockdown-skeptic mayor and a warning across the bows to the rest of the country. Notice that the current emphasis is on “cases”. These are merely positive test results generated by increasing use of a completely inappropriate and unreliable tests. To qualify as a medical case requires a need for treatment. An asymptomatic positive test therefore can not possibly qualify as a case. The numbers are merely to maintain fear and compliance. You must study the facts from official sources and not go by the ones invented on the spot by lying Cabinet spokesmen, or the doom and gloom nonsense gleefully trumpeted incessantly by the media.

About the tests: https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/27/covid19-pcr-tests-are-scientifically-meaningless/

Please have a look at this recent analysis of the ONS statistics and see if you can find any reason to maintain the lockdown that is destroying our economy and trashing our social structures. https://hectordrummond.com/2020/06/30/week-24-graphs-from-christopher-bowyer/

Here’s a critical look at the ethics (and unlawfulness) of the lockdown: https://hectordrummond.com/2020/06/29/tim-james-a-perspective-on-the-ethics-of-lockdowns/

And here’s a graph that sums it all up really: https://hectordrummond.com/2020/06/29/this-is-what-we-shot-ourselves-in-the-foot-for/

I’d be very grateful if you would circulate the above information to the rest of the Kirklees councillors. The future prosperity and wellbeing of this area is in your hands.

Thank you

39164 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Cheezilla, #845 of 1687 🔗

The LGC article has been taken down.

39282 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #847 of 1687 🔗

It’s my link that obviously I successfully killed. The others seem to work. Weird.

JohnB has supplied a working link below. Thanks John.

39332 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #848 of 1687 🔗

‘Face masks do not protect you from COVID-19.’

‘Says who…’

‘The NHS.’

‘Why are the Government making us wear them on public transport then?’

‘Good question…’

38997 David Slade, replying to David Slade, 25, #849 of 1687 🔗

I haven’t commented on this site before but just wanted to say thank you for providing such a valuable resource during these irrational times. I am sure the work that goes in to it and the criticism you must get for speaking the truth must be exhausting. However, sites like this are doing a job that sadly our media has proven itself woefully inadequate for – providing a level headed counter-narrative to the mainstream opinion.

Lockdowns and other extraordinary measures to contain this virus already amount to a suspension of all other considerations of human health and well being in the name of viral suppression. Local lockdowns to contain a ‘hiccup’ in the data that everyone has been going out of their way to look for seems to be a depressingly inevitable continuation of this trend.

It is sad that the experts that the world’s governments have chosen to listen to on the subject of this virus are not the ones whose data is based on empirical research from anti body studies, or actual observations of the trends in the data and what they must mean. Instead, they seem to have been led by those who believe that something as complex and sensitive as a human society can be boiled down to a live action replay of a computer model for the sake of effecting one particular variable (the credibility of this computer model barely matters in the face of this folly).

Sadly, I think this has contributed to one of the most irrational responses to a pandemic in post enlightenment times (albeit there were localised examples of lunacy during Spanish Flu – with some lockdowns). A few other converging social phenomenon have colluded to mean this irrational response has gone global. For example, our technology has behaved as more of an enabler than a saviour – allowing us to respond in this way, where as previously we would have been saved from ourselves by the necessity of having no choice but to interact with our environment like normal living creatures. There are others but I’ve already made this comment far too long.

Just wanted to say again, thanks for providing this.

39280 ▶▶ chris c, replying to David Slade, #850 of 1687 🔗

ZING! excellent

39338 ▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to David Slade, #851 of 1687 🔗

Well said. Good point about technology. And actually rather chilling.

39462 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to David Slade, #852 of 1687 🔗

Hmm, I’ve often pondered the following question. At what point did communications technology become sufficiently developed, that the concept of a national lockdown could shift from “totally out of the question” to “possibly feasible”? 15 years ago? More? Less?

38999 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 25, #853 of 1687 🔗

Actually starting to get quite angry about this whole situation now, the longer it goes on, the more ridiculous it seems to be becoming.

“Leicester 140.2 cases per 100,000” – as if this is justification for 2 more weeks of ‘lockdown’ for that region.

So, 0.14% of leicester has tested positive, you _could_ minus a whole bunch for the false positives the tests give, but we won’t. At worst 0.6% of that 0.14% will die from this, and up to 80% of those 0.14% wont even notice symptoms… but sure, lock it all down and everyone just nods along as if it’s justified.

“In total, there are 47 English local authorities where there are more than 10 cases per 100,000” – reported as if this should terrify everyone… 0.01% is now deemed unacceptable and worth reporting on as if those areas should be next in line. Gahhhhhh

39022 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Mark II, 12, #854 of 1687 🔗

By that criteria (0.14%) then everything should be locked down forever because the same criteria would apply to every infectious condition, even the common cold (which I just started yesterday) that is equally fatal to the very frail. Do they not get how stupid they look?

39076 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bella, 15, #855 of 1687 🔗

Exactly, there is no logical endpoint to this madness, now that we have gone down this path of ‘no death is acceptable’ for this disease, how can they logically differentiate between other deaths – we will be in a permanent hell of masks and lock downs for the rest of time, until eventually they either admit they were lying or pretend they just got it wrong.

I’m amazed by how quickly the clamour for masks has taken hold, as if trying to force 68,000,000 to buy daily masks is in anyway practical or sensible, when just a few short weeks ago the very same bodies & scientists telling us it’s now crucial, were pointing out there is no convincing scientific basis for enforcing their use. They’re no more effective than telling people to cough into their elbows, but apparently that’s no longer sufficient – with no explanation.

39085 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Mark II, 3, #856 of 1687 🔗

It’s crazy.

39189 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark II, 5, #857 of 1687 🔗

TBH coughing into your elbow probably is more efficacious. Like sneezing into your hands. – Long as you wash them after rather than rubbing them in someone else’s face of course.

39212 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark II, 1, #858 of 1687 🔗

Great point. No logical end point.

39281 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark II, #859 of 1687 🔗

AAAAAAAAUUUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!

39277 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #860 of 1687 🔗

stupid or sinister?

39067 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark II, 5, #861 of 1687 🔗

I’ve just watched (again) Michael Levitt laying into the scientific community. He would have a field day with the nonsense we’re now seeing in Leicester and potentially elsewhere.

39077 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #862 of 1687 🔗

Have you a link or where to / what to search for this?

39083 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Mark II, 2, #863 of 1687 🔗

Someone posted the clip in the comments yesterday..not sure if that is helpful or not! sorry!

39144 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to watashi, 1, #864 of 1687 🔗

It did indeed, found it in the comments and the full video from the youtube comments… if you’re that way inclined – I never used to be, but this has turned me into the sort of weirdo who is now obsessing over this stuff – clearly my personal mental health has taken a battering! https://vimeo.com/433350887/33bbbe4090

39075 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark II, 7, #865 of 1687 🔗

Think the government are trying to manufacture ‘evidence’ of greater threat, to use at the judicial review tomorrow..

39080 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Mark II, 3, #866 of 1687 🔗

I’m angry over here too.

39202 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Mark II, 1, #867 of 1687 🔗

I am actually beginning to wonder if there is misdiagnosis at work, and if many of the cases aren’t in fact other pre-existing conditions, now being observed through greater testing.

39014 Major Panic, 2, #868 of 1687 🔗

An important message from the WHO….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZt57yiHOjc

39018 Awkward Git, #869 of 1687 🔗

Read political science – there are NO “far right” groups, just varying degrees of “lefties”.

NAZI were fascists – yes? Common Knowledge. Isn’t NAZI short for “national socialism”? Isn’t socialism “lefty”?

Socialism has killed hundreds of millions in the past 150 years and never had a successful county yet.

Capitalism and democracy suck but not as bad as any other system we’ve tried up to now as humans are generally the thing that makes it all fail, not the theory behind it.

How many have socialism dragged out of poverty? Zero except for the chosen few. At least true capitalism (and not what is practiced at the moment) has benefitted billions with increased standards of living, it’s lefty governments thats crewed the people.

39026 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #870 of 1687 🔗

Latest from Andrew Lawrence- Progress report from The World Health Organisation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZt57yiHOjc

39033 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 1, #871 of 1687 🔗

keep up mate

39035 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Major Panic, 2, #872 of 1687 🔗

Sorry – screen hadn’t refreshed!

39037 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #873 of 1687 🔗

Worth sharing twice though

39034 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #874 of 1687 🔗

Apologies, Major Panic beat me to it and hadn’t refreshed

39036 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 3, #875 of 1687 🔗

i think your intro is better

39044 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 4, #876 of 1687 🔗

Andrew Lawrence is a comedy genius. I’m so grateful for his videos, they have kept me going through “this difficult time …”

39040 Charles, replying to Charles, 9, #877 of 1687 🔗

I won’t have been the first to see this, and perhaps not the first to post it; but hands up if you can guess where it comes from:

“Although our attention is taken up with the response to Coronavirus, other security risks associated with a building being open to the public remain. If, prior to the lockdown, you had identified any security risks (including those related to terrorism) relevant to your building, the measures that you put in place to manage them should still be in place. If you introduce new ways of working to manage public health during Coronavirus, consider how they relate to your existing security measures. For example, if you introduce a queue outside your building to manage the number of people present, does this present a new risk to the public from road traffic, in particular hostile vehicles?”

That’s right….it’s The Church of England’s guidance on (probably not) opening places of worship.

39055 ▶▶ annie, replying to Charles, 19, #878 of 1687 🔗

Yeah. Trust in God. Not.
And treat all those who wish to enter the building like lepers.

Funny, really. Jesus Christ treated lepers like human beings.
He wouldn’t be welcome in a Church of England church these days.

39063 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 3, #879 of 1687 🔗

I posted this earlier. The superlative Andrew Lawrence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhmyaFEdEEc

39072 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to annie, 3, #880 of 1687 🔗

Well he was Jewish!

39042 swedenborg, 15, #881 of 1687 🔗

https://twitter.com/HaraldofW/status/1275538825725558784/photo/1
Very interesting graphic.Total excess death Sweden (adjusted population)
Selected months for Asiatic flu,Hongkong flu,Covid-19.
Covid-19 like bad flu but only Apr similar to Hong Kong Dec 1969 but lower May 2020 and HongKong Jan 1970 as bad as Dec 1969.
You can’t cheat death data. Covid-19 is not worse than flu pandemics we had.

39049 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #882 of 1687 🔗

Skynews interview at 15.20pm Edinburgh University and Scot Gov public health demigod Devi Sridhar

In amongst her comment with head cocked slightly sideways – oh so caring – Sridhar let something slip. She says pharma companies have previously relaxed copyright on drugs to allow generic non-branded drugs to be available where needed.

She said said this covid situation might be one of those situations where that might occur, ESPECIALLY SINCES IT’S BEEN PUT OUT THERE THIS IS A LIFE OR DEATH SITUATION.

PUT OUT THERE .. not your typical wording around a life or death situation.

Other than that she was on message from vaccine makers point of view. Expect a negotiation phase over the covid vaccine in two to three months. All their eggs are in the vaccine basket. Not wildly sound practice but people trust them blindly.

39078 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Basics, 24, #883 of 1687 🔗

Don’t trust this woman….aged 36 and a professor of “global health” at Edinburgh University. Only been in Scotland for a couple of years (previously at Cambridge) and already right in with Sturgeon and the SNP Establishment. Rumoured to be a “personal intimate” of Nickla. US-born, heavily involved with the Clinton’s (co-authors with Chelsea Clinton) and Gates Foundation. Said to be directing Scotland’s response to Covid 19 and pulling all the strings. It’s almost as if she’d been placed in position for this purpose in advance of the “pandemic” by the global cabal running the show. Too many coincidences.

39089 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Gillian, 17, #884 of 1687 🔗

Her CV is ‘unusual’ – to be polite! If you listen to her, she has a very thin grasp of basic science, probably because she has very little training in it (an undergraduate degree in Biology from a distinctly mid-tier US university). She arrived at Oxford on a Rhodes scholarship – you need to be on a particular track to get them, with a few notable exceptions. She was made a professor at age 30 – highly suspect unless she is a genius, which she clearly is not. Follow the money!

39175 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #885 of 1687 🔗

Wasn’t Bill Clinton a Rhodes scholar? Likely put in a word for her..

39188 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 4, #886 of 1687 🔗

All these twats seem to be. I had a few run-ins with a few particularly obnoxious examples whilst at Cocksbridge.

39234 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Farinances, 1, #887 of 1687 🔗

Farinances, I think I am probably quite a bit older than you (I am 55). In my time the ones from the Commonwealth countries were more visible, and as DPhil students, and among them were a couple of true intellects and amazing sportsmen/women. The more recent ones seem to be ‘political’ scholars – aged late 30s/early 40s?

39208 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 5, #888 of 1687 🔗

Coincidentally (!) Clinton B was due to give a speech at Edinburgh University this autumn. Hopefully cancelled. Clinton Foundation and it’s charitable status has been subject to quite a lot of interesting comment recently.

39227 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 1, #889 of 1687 🔗

Yes he was. Other leading Democrats include Cory Booker and Major Pete (Buttigieg). Interesting how none of them are rushing to give the scholarship money back on the basis of the BLM activism, let alone, reflect on their privileges that got them there!

39239 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #890 of 1687 🔗

Sorry that should be Mayor Pete, although he is an Afghanistan war veteran among other things (McKinsey consultant)

39672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #891 of 1687 🔗

Spot on! Devi sitting there decreeing this n that sitting firmly on her training paid for by the mysery and exploitation of others. Maybe thats why her eyes had not a spark of life in them. Maybe she was just due another frappy cappy.

39198 ▶▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #892 of 1687 🔗

We have seen a parade of “professors” who have no serious academic credentials. Another devaluation.

39241 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to WhyNow, 2, #893 of 1687 🔗

We also have Vice Chancellors with little more than undergraduate degrees and who have barely picked up a journal, let alone published in one!

39205 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #894 of 1687 🔗

Amazing how the basic gut instinct works!

Repellant. And a Rhodes scholar like, say, frinstance Bill Meena Arkansas Clinton, say.

Thanks for adding detail to my instinctual retching.

39269 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, #895 of 1687 🔗

She’s a supersnake!

39346 ▶▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Gillian, 1, #896 of 1687 🔗

I find this all a bit suspect as well – this is too young to be a full Professor unless one is genius of epic proportions – caveat that this is in the UK of course. Most scientists would consider making it to this rank before 40 an achievement. I’ve always found people like her activate my b*llshit detector, which rarely fails me.

39384 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to coalencanth12, #897 of 1687 🔗

See my posts above. She is neither a scientist nor a genius. She is a public health ‘expert’ (social scientist) promoted to professor by the age of 30!

39418 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #898 of 1687 🔗

It reflects onto the establishment that employs he, likely for her networking and contacts. Plus the lean of her head.

Try another university for more integrity.

39054 PaulK, replying to PaulK, 3, #899 of 1687 🔗

Does anyone know the link to watch the (Simon Dolan) judicial review tomorrow?

39062 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to PaulK, 4, #900 of 1687 🔗

I listened to Simon on the Richie Allen show yesterday and he said that to watch it live you had to apply to the court for access. He did say that it is going to be recorded and the uploaded presumably to the crowd justice page.

39069 ▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to ambwozere, 2, #901 of 1687 🔗

Oh OK, thanks for letting me know Ambwozere. I’ll have to be patient!

39073 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to PaulK, 3, #902 of 1687 🔗

I remember Simon saying he’d try to do updates through out the day probably on Twitter so that might be one way of finding out how it’s going.

39064 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to PaulK, 2, #903 of 1687 🔗

ooh you can watch it?

Surely there’s no way they’ll let people watch it lol

39065 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to PaulK, 3, #904 of 1687 🔗

I’ve contributed so wouldn’t mind watching

39057 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, 7, #905 of 1687 🔗

A couple of petitions I just signed (apologies if they have already been mentioned):

Make the use of masks on public transport voluntary and not mandatory

Allow beauty salons to open

I will also give my own petition another plug here:

End COVID-19 social distancing

For info, I have another 7 “sceptic” petitions waiting for approval (over 3 weeks now). The annoying thing is that they are not dealing with these petitions in submission order – so they could be waiting forever!

39070 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Back To Normal, #906 of 1687 🔗

Wish I could continually sign the anti social distancing one. Feel I may need to start one to get dance schools open again.

39143 ▶▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to ambwozere, 4, #907 of 1687 🔗

I suggest you start one. The “allow gyms to reopen” petition is doing great and now due for parliament debate, so you never know.

39159 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to ambwozere, 1, #908 of 1687 🔗

Just set up throw away e-mail on gmail, use them to sign the petition then ignore or delete them.

39060 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #909 of 1687 🔗

Just found this on my Twitter account. It’s an article dated 1st May so sorry if it was posted already back then. Always nice to get some perspective.

Woodstock Occurred in the Middle of a Pandemic
https://www.aier.org/article/woodstock-occurred-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic/

The only actions governments took was to collect data, watch and wait, encourage testing and vaccines, and so on. The medical community took the primary responsibility for disease mitigation, as one might expect. It was widely assumed that diseases require medical not political responses.

It’s not as if we had governments unwilling to intervene in other matters. We had the Vietnam War, social welfare, public housing, urban renewal, and the rise of Medicare and Medicaid. We had a president swearing to cure all poverty, illiteracy, and disease. Government was as intrusive as it had ever been in history. But for some reason, there was no thought given to shutdowns.

Which raises the question: why was this different? We will be trying to figure this one out for decades.

What happened between then and now? Was there some kind of lost knowledge, as happened with scurvy, when we once had sophistication and then the knowledge was lost and had to be re-found? For COVID-19, we reverted to medieval-style understandings and policies, even in the 21st century. It’s all very strange.

The contrast between 1968 and 2020 couldn’t be more striking. They were smart. We are idiots. Or at least our governments are.

39136 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, #910 of 1687 🔗

Aha ! Country Joe and the Fish ! Give me an ‘F’ … 🙂

(Toby, excellent site tune ?).

39286 ▶▶ ThreeCheersForTegnell, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #911 of 1687 🔗

And they carried out the preparation for the first manned moon landing during the same pandemic, compare that with today where NASA and ESA have both panicked and barely even managed to keep the critical staff (those who ensure that multi-million dollar/euro probes don’t miss a vital manoeuvre and find themselves on a long orbit to nowhere) in the control rooms and cancelled next to everything else. JWST and ExoMars have both been delayed by corona-panic (for the former this is just another delay atop many others).

39084 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #912 of 1687 🔗

An observation – significantly increased petulance from lockdown zealots when discussing the “situation” online.

My theory – the government have effectively devolved the responsibility of lockdown adherence down to the people.

https://twitter.com/InProportion2/status/1277941597762707461?s=20

Zealots have therefore been policing this thing through fear, shame and judgement themselves. Even defending the policy when central govt are sticking two fingers up to it.

That must take a toll. It is only because lockdowns have become such a deeply-held core belief that it is defended so strongly. As an attack on a core belief is an attack on one’s self, the lockdown is defended with every ounce of being regardless of the cost.

Secondly, to succumb to scepticism would be a perceived failure in duty (see Twitter post above) – therefore another hit to a fragile ego.

For these reasons, zealots need to be persuaded to not be so heavily invested in the “situation” thereby opening themselves up to more proportionate and healthier responses.

39185 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #913 of 1687 🔗

Easier said than done though.

39271 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #914 of 1687 🔗

I ignore the zealots. Just ignore them. If on the street, ask to see their commission (warrant). If they haven’t got this, tell them to do one, as they have zero authority. Always carry a long umbrella (best with straight handle, not crook handle) and look like you want to stab them with it. Don’t argue with them, don’t point out the folly of their ways.

Works for me.

39087 Mark B, replying to Mark B, 2, #915 of 1687 🔗

This is how school children are treated in Thailand. A country with a total of 58 deaths and no new infections for 37 days. https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1944116/schools-reopen-across-thailand-with-temperature-checks-masks

39137 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mark B, 2, #916 of 1687 🔗

That’s so mental that I can’t tell if it’s a piss take news site or not…

39148 ▶▶ Anthony, replying to Mark B, 2, #917 of 1687 🔗

This is nuts. Seems like the perfect way to deplete the effectiveness of the immune system.

39268 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark B, 1, #918 of 1687 🔗

If you did that in a prison, you’d be sued for cruel and unusual punishment. Even in Thailand.

39091 Steve, replying to Steve, 33, #919 of 1687 🔗

Just come back from my weekly sortie to Waitrose Uttoxeter. Gone is the security man on the door, gone are the cones closing a third of the car park off to allow people to queue, gone are the restrictions on one person per household. Apart from a few signs and some black and yellow tape on the floor, a subtly placed hand sanitiser by the door and a couple of staff wearing visors (obviously voluntary) it’s pretty much business as usual.

39147 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Steve, 7, #920 of 1687 🔗

Now that sounds more hopeful!

39176 ▶▶▶ ThreeCheersForTegnell, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #921 of 1687 🔗

Sounds like what they should have done from the very start.

39095 Michael, replying to Michael, 10, #922 of 1687 🔗

Here is how the state of Texas, at least, is turning 80 PCR positive cases into 944 cases.

It appears the health tyranny has changed the counting methodology, to include “probable” cases, setting a very low bar for probable. Such fraud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwukAl-RX04

39337 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #924 of 1687 🔗

People saw through the recurring 500,000s and the 33s. New more random-seeming favourite number?

39581 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #925 of 1687 🔗

The Gematria for 944 gives

  • Furious Potion
  • Christ Entity
  • Lord Vader
  • Vatican Palace
  • Vipers
  • Soul Enmity
  • Hosts for Serpents
  • A crime is an offence against the people
  • Sad Christianity
  • Kibosh Love
  • Queen Mary Magdalene
  • The Terrifying One
  • Rapture Delusion

Some proper apocalyptic stuff there. 🙂

39174 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Michael, 5, #926 of 1687 🔗

We are enduring a disastrous lockdown over a disease where they have to resort to fraud over how many have got the disease.

39180 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Michael, 6, #927 of 1687 🔗

It becomes daily more difficult to believe this sort of stuff is not orchestrated. Why, and by whom, seem to be increasingly important questions!

39343 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #928 of 1687 🔗

I googled numerology for 944. This is interesting:
http://www.biblewheel.com/GR/GR_Database.php?Gem_Num=944

All the Verses in the Bible with Sum = 944

There shall none of his meat be left; therefore shall no man look for his goods. Job 20:21

A fool’s wrath is presently known: but a prudent man covereth shame. Pro 12:16

And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd. Zec 11:15

Make of that what you will.

39556 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, #929 of 1687 🔗

“Angel Number 944 is a message that the angels and Archangels are supporting your life purpose and are encouraging you to look into spiritually-based work and/or career path or service-based project or venture.”

I don’t think Angel number 944 is supporting this lot.

39584 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #930 of 1687 🔗

I’ve always wanted the instruments of a foolish shepherd. 🙂 🙂

39552 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Michael, #931 of 1687 🔗

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3543604

“Epidemiological and Clinical Characteristics of 944 Cases of 2019 Novel Coronavirus Infection of Non-COVID-19 Exporting City, Zhejiang, China”

39100 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 37, #932 of 1687 🔗

We had the “reopening” newsletter from,on of or favourite local pub/restaurants – Butlers Arms, Four Oaks, Sutton Coldfield if you’re interested.

It’s an indie operation and the landlord is typically a friendly if somewhat irascible guy. The pub stayed open until the fateful day and we actually had a booking for Tuesday 24th March.

He knows it’s all bullshit but he’s going along with it anyway and here’s his take:

There are rules that we have to comply within in order to be permitted to open.

43 soddin’ pages of government guidelines to read and interpret, along with risk assessments and other stuff.

This is the end result:

Social Distancing – House Policy

Protecting our team and our guests is of paramount importance to us, so in order to be able to do this, we will have screens in place, limited tables and social distancing measures in place.

In order to comply with current government Covid-19 guidelines we are implementing the following policy:

Maximum party size is six.

All guests must be seated at all times (table service will be provided)

Parties seated inside must be from a maximum of TWO family groups or support bubbles.

A maximum of six people from multiple households or support bubbles can meet outside.

We cannot allow groups to ‘mingle’.

We are required to take contact details from each group for ‘track and trace’ purposes

I decided to reply. Not burning my bridges but at the same time trying to instil some kind of resistance into him. As I imply even the most lenient interpretation of the “guidelines” is going to make the whole experience pretty miserable.

Thanks and good luck with the reopening.

Sadly we feel unable to return until all of the pettifogging bureaucracy and regulations are gone. Additionally we are extremely uncomfortable about our personal details being held by each establishment we visit. We realize these are not of your making and that that the “guidance” is being gold-plated by local authorities and insurers, but the anxiety and stress we would feel abiding by these strictures would detract from any enjoyment we might derive from finally being released from house arrest.

It might be worth reading the Marstons CEO’s take on all of this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8465287/amp/Boss-pub-chain-Marstons-declares-war-coronavirus-red-tape.html

And if you’d like a dose of sanity we’d recommend https://lockdownsceptics.org/

Sorry for the rant but we think you need to know that there are some customers out there who are simply not prepared to engage or comply with being treated as walking biohazards.

Once again – good luck with the reopening and we hope to see you again soon.

39104 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to LGDTLK, 5, #933 of 1687 🔗

Would love to see his reply. I hope he has the courage to remove some of these restrictions as he seems fairly sceptical already.

39132 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ambwozere, 3, #934 of 1687 🔗

How is he going to ensure smokers remain seated at all times’ ? By letting us light up at the table ? 🙂

39161 ▶▶ annie, replying to LGDTLK, 2, #935 of 1687 🔗

Well done you.

39167 ▶▶ Bella, replying to LGDTLK, 5, #936 of 1687 🔗

Great reply. I wonder how any of these places are going to police mingling and cross-bubbling (can that become a catch-phrase? You heard it here first.) How are they going to actually know? Are they going to employ more Karens? Hardly.

39335 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 1, #937 of 1687 🔗

They probably won’t but they’ll have to watch out for visiting Karens.

39177 ▶▶ Bella, replying to LGDTLK, 5, #938 of 1687 🔗

I’m nowhere near Sutton Coldield but I went to their website and expressed my objections. Please post names of establishments who are treating their customers like pariahs. I’m building up quite a portfolio of (one-way) correspondence.

39300 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, 1, #939 of 1687 🔗

You need to categorise them:

a) essential shops
b) non essential shops
c) restaurants
d) pubs
e) cafes
f) services
g) museums, art galleries and heritage sites
h) visitor attractions

etc, etc…..we can go on

39295 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to LGDTLK, #940 of 1687 🔗

Great reply!

39334 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to LGDTLK, 2, #941 of 1687 🔗

The way his letter is worded, he’s pulled chunks from the government guidelines to comply with the regulations because he’ll have to submit his “policy” to the powers that be.

Hopefully, because he obviously thinks they’re bollox, in practice he’ll be as lax as he can get away with.

39165 annie, replying to annie, 22, #942 of 1687 🔗

Just caught another blether on the telly about huge job losses ’caused by Coronavirus’.
Almost weeping with rage.

39171 ▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, 4, #943 of 1687 🔗

Bet they’re not reporting that in Sweden.Maybe they never had the virus….

39191 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to annie, 5, #944 of 1687 🔗

It has got to the point where the BBC routinely lies, and they don’t even know it. It is just automatic.

39193 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to WhyNow, 5, #945 of 1687 🔗

Oh they know it.
There’s a reason they omit so much crucial contextual information.

39211 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Farinances, 7, #946 of 1687 🔗

They’ve just interviewed Professor Susan Michie, a member of Sage and, according to Guido Fawkes, also a member of the alternative Sage group. She was wittering on about how dangerous it is to open the pubs and hairdressers this weekend as it will lead to infections spreading etc etc. The BBC failed to mention that she is an ardent Marxist and has been a member of the communist party for forty years.

39312 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Margaret, 1, #947 of 1687 🔗

Innocent question: why does being an ardent Marxist/communist make any difference to scientific evaluation? It’s the Tories (in name anyway) that shut down the economy, no Marxists there.

39321 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Bella, 1, #948 of 1687 🔗

Because Marxists are anti private enterprise.

39408 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bella, 1, #949 of 1687 🔗

The Tories have no real ideology of their own except staying in power. They just seem to go along with whatever the Left pushes as its latest big idea.
The U.S. states with the most draconian lockdowns, many still imposed apart from BLM protests, are all Democrat-run.
They were also the same ones who mandated that care homes had to take in potentially positive patients from hospitals, as happened in this country. Thousands have died as a result.
The Tories aren’t Marxists, but they’re taking advice from them and following the same policies.

39537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Bella, #950 of 1687 🔗

“There’s a reason that they omit so much crucial contextual information”
My response was in order to validate this point.

39684 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Margaret, #951 of 1687 🔗

Oh and she doesn’t want lockdown to end but probably wants us to be incarcerated forever! She is also a psychologist, who deals with behavioural change, rather than a scientist!

39178 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 20, #952 of 1687 🔗

What I want to know is apart from open and sustained violence how do we get TPTB to listen?

No-one is listening; no replies from MPs, the PM, Handjobs, councils in any department including chief executives, FOIs other than “it’s too expensive so appeal”, trade bodies, MSM, “news” shows and channels – sky, BBC, ITV, local papers, local ITV news etc, no major shopping chains, no major companies, no clubs reply, no magazines, and so on.

Looks like Marstons is about the only company with a boss with balls but I expect the council licensing committees will shut his pubs down pretty quickly by imposing licensing restrictions rather than putting them under the environmental health as it should be under the Public Health (control of Disease) Act 1984. He needs to get ready with lots of money for legal costs to back his landlords when the nazi licensing officers pay a visit or he’s toast.

The average person who is losing their business (spoke to a few today) and the shop floor workers of big realise it’s all bollocks (but they big bosses and directors are driving the PPE and “safety” idiocy.

So how do we get heard?

39179 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #953 of 1687 🔗

TPTB?

39182 ▶▶▶ Conrad, replying to Bella, #954 of 1687 🔗

The powers that be, I assume.

39186 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bella, 1, #955 of 1687 🔗

The Powers That Be

39267 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Awkward Git, #956 of 1687 🔗

Ta

39404 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bella, #957 of 1687 🔗

https://buffy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Powers_That_Be

The Powers That Be: a term I first heard in the Buffyverse.

““In the beginning, before the time of man, great beings walked the earth. Untold power emanated from all quarters — the seeds of what would come to be known as good and evil. But the shadows stretched and became darkness, and the malevolent among us grew stronger. The Earth became a demon realm. Those of us who had the will to resist left this place, but we remained ever-watchful.”
―”Jasmine”[src]
The Powers That Be (sometimes shortened to “the Powers” or “the PTB”) was a term that referred to the first beings to exist in the Earth dimension after the schism that created them and the Old Ones. After leaving this dimension, these beings watched over mankind and guided the forces of good.”

39197 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #958 of 1687 🔗

I think once the big bosses and directors see just how much people don’t want their “safety” nonsense, they’ll soon change tack pretty quickly. And, when it starts to hit in their own pockets in terms of slashed bonuses and zero dividends they’ll soon lobby MPs. Sadly, they will have more clout than us smaller business owners who have been hung out to dry by our MPs. They have totally miscalculated how customers wish to be treated, but they are about to find out! That’s the only power we have at the moment – withdrawing our custom.

39305 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, 1, #959 of 1687 🔗

Would you love to refuse to serve your MP if they came in, or would you be much more decent? If I were in your position I wouldn’t be able to decide.

39325 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 4, #960 of 1687 🔗

Rather than ask them to record their contact details, as the guidelines purport to require, I’d ask them to fill out a form detailing what steps they’ve taken to protect their constituents from the effects of lockdown insanity.

39326 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 4, #961 of 1687 🔗

Funny you should ask, I was thinking about this the other day. I don’t think she would want to come into my shop (not trendy enough!).

I suspect though, as I mentioned earlier, she will perhaps be in the town for some photo ops for the local rag. I really don’t think she would have the gall to come in to speak to me. If she did, I’m afraid, the mood I am in at the moment, she would be informed in no uncertain terms what I think to how her government have handled things!

39210 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #962 of 1687 🔗

This is the major difficulty: if You can’t get through to them, it is probably impossible, short of civil war (rather a misnomer that!).

39229 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #963 of 1687 🔗

Maybe target the big bosses and directors. Tell them how the draconian rules are putting off potential customers. Point out that they are guidelines, subject to interpretaions and not legally enforceable.

39328 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #964 of 1687 🔗

The problem with this is that big bosses want this, the death of the high street and just having warehouses and hubs that do home deliveries is great for them to maximise profits. They do not care for the small independent business’s this is why you are not hearing any voices.

39329 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 2, #965 of 1687 🔗

Doesn’t work for the hospitality industry though.

39376 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #966 of 1687 🔗

I think we should keep up the pressure by writing to establishments and businesses with draconian rules, particularly those that mention mask-wearing, or toilets being closed, and point out the legal ramifications if someone wearing a mask falls ill on their premises from wearing a mask or from lack of access to a toilet – ie they will be liable for prosecution. I think mask-wearing might then be dropped quite soon, and hopefully that might lead to the dropping of other rules.

39310 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #967 of 1687 🔗

I’ve been boycotting the high street and will do the same pubs, restaurants, museums, heritage sites and if the lunacy is still there cultural institutions. Withdrawing our custom will hopefully hit these companies and institutions to the point that their CEOs and directors will grow the cojones to lobby the government to end this insanity.

39318 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #968 of 1687 🔗

They don’t need to listen with an 80 seat majority. They will do as they choose and that’s it.

39194 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #969 of 1687 🔗
39243 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #970 of 1687 🔗

Please, please may this be so. I frequently visit Dr Steve Turley on YouTube for a daily injection of hope….worth a look

39395 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to T. Prince, #971 of 1687 🔗

Me too. He’s a veritable ray of sunshine and hope. He doesn’t always get it right, e.g. the 1 million applications for Trump rally tickets, but a lot of people were fooled by that.

39200 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #972 of 1687 🔗

Anyone else noticed signs of panic buying again in the supermarkets? Toilet roll aisle near empty with signs restricting amounts and tinned foods stripped largely bare in Waitrose this evening. Not in a ‘Watched’ area.

Also never seen so many masks, was really depressing visit all in all.

39214 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Sarigan, 7, #973 of 1687 🔗

Quite different for me at Tesco, sure, the shelves are half empty, but they have been that way since early March, not sure why because Aldis’ shelves are full. Full of crap but still full nonetheless. As for masks I saw 1 customer and 2 staff members wearing them, everybody was ‘face free’ and all ignoring the one way system and social distancing crap, it was actually almost normal. The hand sanitizer bottles at the entry and exit doors had cobwebs hanging from them!

39322 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Old Bill, 3, #974 of 1687 🔗

Still a few shortages in our Co-Op but it was quite relaxed, someone going the wrong way in the one way system, no queue to get in and hardly any queue to get to a till, and the girl was chatty. Not wuite back to normal but a good start.
Oh and not a single muzzle.

39369 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Old Bill, #975 of 1687 🔗

Curious to know if the UK has had problems with shortages of prescription medicines? Here in Sweden I went to get a migraine tablet prescription today and there was one pack left in the whole of Uppsala, and no online chemists had it. When I finally got to the chemist with this one pack left, the woman in front of me in the queue was told the the medicine she needed would not be back in until the 27th July…

39899 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Carrie, #976 of 1687 🔗

Yes I read something about that a while ago but can no longer remember which specific drugs were involved

39231 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sarigan, 5, #977 of 1687 🔗

It’ll be panic over local lockdowns. Who knows where will be next?

39248 ▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to Sarigan, 3, #978 of 1687 🔗

Bizarrely large ‘catering’ tins of chopped tomatoes and other items have suddenly appeared today on the shelves of my local Tesco alongside the o’rdinary tomatoes and beans. I wonder if others are doing what I am – stockpiling now against some further disruption?

39352 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Dave Tee, 2, #979 of 1687 🔗

It’ll be because the restaurants and pubs have been closed, so there’s a large amount of catering stock that’s gone unsold.
They’ll be trying to shift it through the supermarkets, partly to use up the stock and partly to replace the shortages of regular consumer sized versions.

39426 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve, 1, #980 of 1687 🔗

And how, in God’s name, can any shop or business plan things like stock when they can be shut down at a moment’s notice for an indefinite period? How can teachers plan lessons? How…
oh, what’s the use?

39260 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sarigan, 3, #981 of 1687 🔗

I’m not surprised really. Government is playing silly buggers, nobody knows when they might suddenly get locked down again.

39548 ▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Nick Rose, #982 of 1687 🔗

Exactly. It’s the uncertainty that is so difficult for business to live with. My son works for John Lewis. Getting stores reopened is a logistical nightmare and really really expensive. Shutting down the stores cost a fortune, now opening up is as bad. You’ve no idea how much needs to be done behind the scenes before a store is mothballed and then before it reopens. There’s also a big financial risk that if they decide to open up a store and take the staff off furlough, then if the store is locked down again, JL has to keep the staff on the payroll. Fortunately, the Leicester store was not one of the first to open.

39366 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, #983 of 1687 🔗

If there has been panic-buying, then it’s probably due to the government and MSM going on about a 2nd wave, plus the Leicester lockdown (ie people worried their region might be next for a new lockdown)…

39209 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 29, #984 of 1687 🔗

I was thinking about how crazy this whole situation is. This goes out to every pro lockdown zealot, who thinks Covid 19 is the deadliest disease ever known to Mankind. Ask them simply:

1. How many people do you personally know (not friends of friends, or distant relatives, or anecdotal reports) but how many people do you personally know who have required hospital treatment due to Covid 19?

2. How many people do you personally know who have died from Covid 19?

I bet you would be hard-pushed to find anyone who can answer yes to either of those questions. Personally, I don’t know anyone. Not a single person who can say yes to the above two questions.

If you then ask the same questions to anyone but this time in relation to cancer, I reckon most people would answer yes to at least one of them.

My point? Threat of mortality vs proportionate response. Where is it? Shutting the entire country down and forcing schools to close for a disease that nobody seems to be actually experiencing unless they are around 80+ years old. The fact that cancer screenings and treatment were halted in this country to “save our NHS” is scandalous.

39225 ▶▶ James007, replying to RDawg, 5, #985 of 1687 🔗

Well said.
Btw according to Cancer research there are 165,000 cancer deaths in the UK EVERY year. I guess that the lockdown will increase deaths, as a result of delayed diagnostics and treatment. Will this disproportionate response save any lives overall?

39238 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to James007, 6, #986 of 1687 🔗

I posted something on a Carl Vernon video today.

Number of people in the last 6 months I personally known have died from:

Cancer =2 (my uncle and a work colleague)
“It” = 0

P.s. my fiancée’s aunt and uncle had it in march and fully recovered and reported it wasn’t very nice but no worse than flu.

39438 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to James007, 3, #987 of 1687 🔗

A good friend had an operation for bowel cancer cancelled from the beginning of April and eventually done at the end of May. It was discovered that the cancer had started to spread and he now faces 6 months of chemo. While it is not possible to tell whether the delay contributed to this he (and his friends) can’t help feeling it is likely.

39934 ▶▶▶▶ A leaf, replying to Suitejb, #988 of 1687 🔗

It probably was i am sorry

39232 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to RDawg, 7, #989 of 1687 🔗

Absolutely! Neither I nor anyone I know or in my family has had it, let alone died of it. I have seen no evidence that the virus actually exists with my own eyes. If it were a gigantic confidence trick, I would be none the wiser. In the beginning I expected piles of bodies in the streets, mile long queues for hospital admission, basically the Plague or Black Death. Instead, I got a lot of clapping and nurses playing Tik Tok

39256 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #990 of 1687 🔗

I know people who have had it, and one work colleague was hospitalised with it, but he did have other health issues as well. I don’t know anybody who has died from it.

39392 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Nick Rose, #991 of 1687 🔗

I know of two – see my post above in this thread.

39287 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #992 of 1687 🔗

Exactly!

39237 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to RDawg, 11, #993 of 1687 🔗

I seem to recall that we went into this pantomime to ‘save the NHS’. We didn’t need to because for most people this virus is about as potent as a wet fart.Now hospitals are empty, deaths have tanked AND WE’RE STILL HERE!! I ask pro-lockdown idiots why and they usually mention the (concocted) ‘second wave, it’s still out there bollocks’. I’m losing my patience very rapidly with these and the muzzle wearing variety of LDM’s (Lock Down Morons).

39285 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to RDawg, 5, #994 of 1687 🔗

Apart from natural scepticism, the first thing that made me think this was all BS was when they were saying things like “everyone’s dropping like flies” yet I didn’t know one person who was ill and I asked people and they didn’t know anyone who was ill.

39371 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RDawg, 1, #995 of 1687 🔗

So far, I think I have had it, mild, (not tested) my 82 yr old aunty had it and so did most of her aged Scottish friends, after an Xmas get together, they are all fine. Yes she was a bit rough but no where near at death’s door. It was just a cold then. None of them were tested. I have internet mates in Europe, lots of them had it in Jan/Feb, they were coughing their guts up and for some it was almost as bad a man-flu, they weren’t tested. They are all fine.

I was talking to a customer and was giving her the thing about how it isn’t that dangerous etc and she said “your not talking to the right person here”, “my husband died of it”….Well that was me put in my place, turns out he was in his 80’s and had loads of stuff wrong with him, kidney failure, heart issues, brain injury from a fall. He was in hospital for the other stuff and then he got covids and that finished him off. I am sure he “died with covid” was on his death cert and possible the other fatal things, perhaps not.

I had a conversation with a cashier girl, saying about how covids aren’t that dangerous and how all the social distancing measures are mental etc and she shut me up by saying, “you should keep your opinions to yourself, I had a relative who died of it”, again that was me told, turns out the relative was old with loads of other stuff wrong with them.

I was talking to another customer and he said somebody he knew or a relative had “it” and was on a ventilator…or something with tubes, never did manage to pin it down, probably a person in their mid 70’s, it was a touch-and-go but he got better, that might have been in February or early March

I just found out that another mate of mine died last Friday, he was about 58 ish. He died of something weird, haven’t got to the bottom of it yet, a heart valve/heart failure kind of thing and an infection, probably pneumonia due to heart failure . BUT NOT THE RONA. He wasn’t Mr Healthy, a big smoker and drinker, very dedicated to the cause. Yep….Its a lottery.

39388 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Two-Six, #996 of 1687 🔗

I have a friend, 77 years old, died back in May.
He’d had severe bronchitis, and was admitted to hospital because he was having trouble breathing. He was tested negative for CV19, and treated on a CV19-free ward. Supposedly. He was given iv antibiotics, then sent home after recovering. A week or so later, having stayed at home, he became ill again, taken back to hospital, tested positive for CV19, died not long after. He had to have been infected in the hospital the first time.
He was in the vulnerable age group, had smoked heavily for years, and had a bad chest infection not long before being infected.
The only other person I know was 90, with heart failure, and recovering after hip surgery. He was also infected in hospital.

39373 ▶▶ Dinger, replying to RDawg, 1, #997 of 1687 🔗

One of my staff said her teenage sister was part of a chat with a million subscribers asking if anyone knew someone who had died of Covid and none had

39385 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to RDawg, 1, #998 of 1687 🔗

I have 3 relatives in the UK and 2 friends in Sweden that have had it – ages 40-60. None of these have died from it.

39409 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to RDawg, 1, #999 of 1687 🔗

This is a conversation I have had often with others. I do not know anyone personally who has required hospital treatment due to Covid-19, I do not know anyone, whom I know personally, who has died from Covid-19 and, all of whom I have spoken with say the same…

39907 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Kath Andrews, #1000 of 1687 🔗

Here in a small town in Suffolk and the surrounding villages I have heard there have been about 8 cases – I don’t know any of them. Only one – healthcare professional – was hospitalised and survived.

On the other hand I do know far more peope than that who had a suspiciously covid-like flu/cough thing between October and February, mostly clustered around December/January. For some it was annoying but mild, many had it worse and a few had it really badly but all reovered and none were hospitalised.

I’ve heard much the same from other parts of the country with low covid numbers.

No doiubt it exists, the likes of Malcolm Kendrick have seen a few cases/deaths especially in care homes, but it appears to be quite localised and often centred on hospitals.

39420 ▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 1, #1001 of 1687 🔗

I have a friend who is half Italian and has a house in a village near Lake Como. Ages back, when Italy was the Big Bogy, a very old man in her village was diagnosed with the bug. He had been cared for by four people, the care including washing him, changing his clothes and bedding, and washing same. The helpers all quarantined themselves but NOT ONE OF THEM DEVELOPED COVID. The old man died, but as he was well into his eighties and had been ill for weeks it was not exactly a shock.

39473 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RDawg, #1002 of 1687 🔗

I don’t know anybody who’s died of it. No idea if anybody I know has had it because hardly anybody gets tested.

The simple maths of 60k deaths out of 60M people (I’ve rounded the numbers) would suggest it’s unlikely you’d know somebody who’s died of it. For comparison, I’ve mentioned this before, in all my 40+ years on earth I’ve never known anybody who’s died of the flu. Flu has been killing people for longer than I’ve been alive so it’s quite remarkable that I’ve never known anybody to die of it or I’m just an antisocial Billy Nomates.

For those who like equations and graphs I found one here:

https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/03/24/what-is-the-probability-that-someone-you-know-will-die-from-covid-19/

39550 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Nobody2020, #1003 of 1687 🔗

I’ve mentioned the same thing to my OH, i.e. that in my entire life (65 years) I don’t know nor have heard of anyone ever dying from influenza. I’ve had it once, in my twenties, and it was nasty, but i didn’t need to go to hospital. I gave it to my mother, who was more ill than I was, but she’s still alive, so it didn’t kill her either.

39216 annie, replying to annie, 12, #1004 of 1687 🔗

Telegraph is asking readers to say what they think about the govt’s response to the bollox. If you can, please respond. Lots of room for free comment.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/01/tell-us-think-governments-coronavirus-response/?WT.mc_id=e_DM1262199&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FPM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FPM_New_ES20200701&utm_campaign=DM1262199

I’m not sure whether my response reached them, as my laptop exploded with all the rage I’d just typed into it.

39224 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to annie, 1, #1005 of 1687 🔗

No option to say didn’t vote at the last election and that the government made the wrong steps at the wrong time

39233 ▶▶ matt, replying to annie, #1006 of 1687 🔗

Ok. Time to get round to subscribing. Sigh.

39236 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 2, #1007 of 1687 🔗

You don’t have to! I’m not a subscriber and I’m filling it in.

39292 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, #1008 of 1687 🔗

It wouldn’t let me without subscribing.

39302 ▶▶▶▶▶ A13, replying to matt, 1, #1009 of 1687 🔗

I think all you need to do is create a free account.

39303 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A13, #1010 of 1687 🔗

Yes. You can have a month free, or I got 3 months for £3.

39381 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to Cheezilla, #1011 of 1687 🔗

I have no account, just had to put a username and email in same as here.

39253 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 9, #1012 of 1687 🔗

Good find Annie! A couple of my responses:

“I object to the government stealing my civil liberties. I am perfectly capable of deciding where is or is not safe for myself, thank you.

Implementing a Chinese Communist policy (enforced lockdown with criminal penalties) by the British government is disgusting. THIS IS A DEMOCRACY! WE ARE FREE PEOPLE, NOT SLAVES!!!!” (caps as I typed it for their benefit btw)

* Which countries responded well to Covid?*
“Well done Sweden. Achieved herd immunity, no lockdown. Blot on the copybook was losing control of the care homes (like we did).

Bad boys and girls rest of EU. Totalitarian measures by quarantining the healthy, abandoning the susceptible to their fate. Not to mention the relentless bullshit propaganda from the MSM, including yourselves. You panicked the country, you have blood on your hands.”

By God, I enjoyed that.

39273 ▶▶ ThreeCheersForTegnell, replying to annie, 2, #1013 of 1687 🔗

Thanks for that, gave them a good calm and collected answer to each question on why Britain should have copied Sweden. Unfortunately the comment boxes were limited in length, so I couldn’t quite make my entire arguments within them, just had to state the conclusions rather than list and cite all the evidence.

39278 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to annie, 2, #1014 of 1687 🔗

Good find Annie, just finished it. Let’s hope the Telegraph enjoys all the sceptical advice.

39293 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to annie, 1, #1015 of 1687 🔗

Good find, done!!

39294 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to annie, 2, #1016 of 1687 🔗

Done. With both barrels!

39319 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 6, #1017 of 1687 🔗

What would you like to see from this government moving forward?
Oh that is so tempting!

Apart from the obvious, I’d like to see them all resign.

How about I’d like to see them all chained to an aeroplane seat on a non-stop flight to Australia, wearing their beloved mask.

For starters….

39348 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cheezilla, #1018 of 1687 🔗

A team harakiri

39370 ▶▶▶ Dinger, replying to Cheezilla, #1019 of 1687 🔗

I put ” their resignation and a mea culpa like the Norwegian PM”

39407 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1020 of 1687 🔗

Chained to an aeroplane seat on the back of an A400M with the back door “accidentally” left open…

I really need to get out more. Oh, wait…

39414 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1021 of 1687 🔗

I finished by recommending collective hara-kiri. Snap, Major Panic!

39424 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to annie, 1, #1022 of 1687 🔗

Done. Thanks for the link. It will be interesting to see the results!

39472 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to annie, #1023 of 1687 🔗

Done!

39475 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to annie, #1024 of 1687 🔗

Done. I told them the government is finished.

39230 John P, replying to John P, 4, #1025 of 1687 🔗

Good speech from Sen (Dr) Rand Paul in the US, which I’m sure will resonate with many here. In particular, highlighting that child to adult transmission is rare:

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1277993516203937793

I think I’m right in saying that Hancock is giving the apparent high incidence of children testing positive in Leicester as reason to shut down the city.

39240 ▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 6, #1026 of 1687 🔗

“I think I’m right in saying that Hancock is giving the apparent high incidence of children testing positive in Leicester as reason to shut down the city.”

Yes. This is because nobody has tested asymptomatic children before.

39250 ▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 3, #1027 of 1687 🔗

Hancock did cite children as spreaders yes. More emotive that way, see. You go geddem Hancock! waddah guy.

39272 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to John P, 12, #1028 of 1687 🔗

He said all schools are safe, including those in Leicester, but schools in Leicester need to be closed because it’s not safe.

Or something equally dumb.

39276 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #1029 of 1687 🔗

Hancock is good at dumb. Useless at everything else, but dumb is his forte.

39315 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #1030 of 1687 🔗

I can’t imagine how I would feel if I was a senior clinician and I had to interact with him in a professional capacity. He is a berk.

39288 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1031 of 1687 🔗

The problem is that the grinning clown thinks he is doing a great job. It would not be possible to explain to him the catastrophy he is jointly responsible for.
You can’t fix stupid

39406 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, #1032 of 1687 🔗

He might be in for a rude awakening tomorrow.

39643 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Major Panic, #1033 of 1687 🔗

He’ll be on more happy pills than you can shake a stick at.

39320 ▶▶ ted, replying to John P, 2, #1034 of 1687 🔗

Great link John. In the end, Fauci seems to have missed the point. His particular take on the “facts” shouldn’t matter for local decision making much at all. And, I presume, Sen. Paul is trying to suggest that either we stop listening to this one “expert” for even the most minute decisions needed in the conduct of daily life and start behaving like responsible adult men and women or the Fauci’s of the world have the maturity to sit down, shut up, and remind the idiots in the media and professional associations that, as adults, they need to step up and take some responsibility and decide for themselves what they should do in response to the presence of this and any other respiratory virus that swim among us as a natural matter.

39249 matt, replying to matt, 4, #1035 of 1687 🔗

Is it just me or has the site stopped working for new posts for the last few days?

39254 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #1036 of 1687 🔗

Not had a problem here, as far as I know.

39257 ▶▶ Bazza, replying to matt, 4, #1037 of 1687 🔗

Im waiting for my first post ever to be approved…… i was sincerely hoping for some solace as ive been really struggling lately

39270 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bazza, 9, #1038 of 1687 🔗

I saw your earlier post, Bazza. Welcome to the resistance. In a few years’ time everyone will claim they were here.

39344 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to matt, 1, #1039 of 1687 🔗

Indeed – GrantM will dine out on it!

39412 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to IanE, #1040 of 1687 🔗

Will be unable to dine owing to muzzle

39283 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bazza, #1041 of 1687 🔗

Chin up Bazza, we are all here for each other. Welcome.

39284 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bazza, #1042 of 1687 🔗

I saw a post from you on here earlier today. Your hello post.

39290 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bazza, #1043 of 1687 🔗

It posts at the place time you posted, not the approved time, should be fine now you’re in

39389 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Bazza, #1044 of 1687 🔗

Welcome Bazza! I’m sorry you’ve been struggling lately, none of this is easy, we’ll get there!

39264 ▶▶ mjr, replying to matt, 1, #1045 of 1687 🔗

the new posts are still highlighted for me but the orange blob showing the number of new posts which should, when clicked , highlight them all , doesnt work and doesnt reset

39275 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to mjr, #1046 of 1687 🔗

I find returning to the home page and then coming back here sorts it out.

39308 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1047 of 1687 🔗

That’s not working for me. I have to refresh every time, so I’ve no idea what posts I’m missing.

39401 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #1048 of 1687 🔗

Maybe got a bit buggy, have you tried signing out and back in again?

39331 ▶▶ chris c, replying to matt, #1049 of 1687 🔗

I had a strange problem a while back. First I stopped being able to comment, then I stopped being able to READ the comments. Fixed it by switching from Opera to Firefox, which is weird because I switched to Opera when I stopped being able to post on a forum.

Meybe try a different browser, or check your permissions (I use Noscipt and Ghostery)

39382 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to chris c, #1050 of 1687 🔗

Brave works fine

39398 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #1051 of 1687 🔗

You may need to log out and in again?

39259 sam, replying to sam, 7, #1052 of 1687 🔗

They are determined to keep the fear going until the vaccine is ready for all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nemP1kmhTr0&feature=youtu.be
legal case tomorrow

39299 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to sam, 4, #1053 of 1687 🔗

What does everyone think of Simon’s video?

39314 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1054 of 1687 🔗

Powerful video, needs spreading widely.

39316 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1055 of 1687 🔗

Excellent

39330 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1056 of 1687 🔗

Very good. I’ve retweeted the link, and am now standing back waiting for hell to descend on me from Twitter followers . . .

39428 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to CarrieAH, #1057 of 1687 🔗

Link anyone?

39365 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, #1058 of 1687 🔗

Prime. Trouble is getting it viewed!!

39379 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #1059 of 1687 🔗

Even if you don’t have Twitter, the video is on his website, so that link can be shared.

39397 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 1, #1060 of 1687 🔗

I meant just getting people to watch it. It’s on YouTube too :o)

39403 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #1061 of 1687 🔗

Oh good – I did not know it was on youtube 🙂

39430 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1062 of 1687 🔗

I think it’s amazing – powerful and to the point. I sent it to most of my phone contacts a couple of weeks ago, it was very late, I was very angry. Think I ruffled a few feathers. Morning after, immediate feeling of ‘oh no, I shouldn’t have done that’, followed swiftly by ‘no, people need to see this’.

39474 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Kath Andrews, #1063 of 1687 🔗

You did it. That’s what matters 🙂

39301 ▶▶ Nic, replying to sam, 4, #1064 of 1687 🔗

Already backpeddaling on the oxford vaccine probably wont be ready till next year and will only reduce symptons and not provide immunity ,
Kinds guessed this would happen, and the government have pinned everything on it working and being available in october.
What will they do now, they cant continue to wreck the country with local lockdowns can they?

39306 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Nic, 5, #1065 of 1687 🔗

Damn…
Well maybe they could try sheilding the vulnerable until the healthy achieve herd imunity

39419 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1066 of 1687 🔗

Now there’s a novel idea! 😉

39522 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to sam, 1, #1067 of 1687 🔗

Wow, incredibly powerful video. I actually got a bit emotional watching that. It was the counter in the top-right corner that got me, the way it kept ticking up and up to 100. Unbelievable to think that life has changed so dramatically in just 100 days.

39289 Julian, replying to Julian, 12, #1068 of 1687 🔗

Hitchens is on the case with Leicester, asking for suggestions for questions to ask Public Health England. I think he’s a good investigative journalist with a platform in a major national newspaper. Worth feeding him some good suggestions – I think he’d be good at nailing any attempt at BS.

https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1278291202241110019

39297 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 8, #1069 of 1687 🔗

Hitchens asks, reasonably enough, about hospitalisations but the lever for the Leicester scam has been number of “cases”, with emphasis on children – who aren’t normally tested.
I hope he’ll blow that excuse out of the water at the earliest opportunity.

39307 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1070 of 1687 🔗

Do we know whether parents were consulted and asked for their authorisation?

39311 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1071 of 1687 🔗

If they’ve willingly turned up at the test centres, dragging their kids with them, that would count as consent.
On the other hand, if it wasn’t normal policy to test kids …..

39327 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1072 of 1687 🔗

So potentially a bit like the lack of/no need for consent in various other situations with under 18s. Worrying, and it would be good if Peter Hitchens probed on this matter.

39340 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1073 of 1687 🔗

See my above comment.

39339 ▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1074 of 1687 🔗

It will have been children attending school,being taught in small groups. If they display symptoms, they get sent home and have a swab within 24 hours. If it’s negative they get to go back, if positive they and the other children have to stay home and shelter for 14 days. Yes parents will have consented, this process if part of the terms for their children being allowed back into school.

39341 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cruella, 1, #1075 of 1687 🔗

Thanks for clarifying.

39353 ▶▶▶▶▶ OpenYourEyes, replying to Cruella, 2, #1076 of 1687 🔗

The children would be able to return within seven days without a test if someone outside their household is able to do the drop off/pick up, btw. which can be as long as the test takes to be done.

39342 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #1077 of 1687 🔗

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/30/some-leicester-factories-stayed-open-and-forced-staff-to-come-in
Are we certain they were ‘children’? Guardian report today says ‘many were young men aged 20 ot 40 often from an Asian background…working in those sectors’ (i.e. garment factories & food processing plants ). Which would figure. At 1 June there was only one drive in test centre for the general public at Birsthall, NE area. Then after 1 June, 3 more were set up, presumably in response to the figures known to PHE, but not shared with the Council?? one at Spinney Park at the end of St Saviours Rd, the garment district. Can imagine workers keen to call in at end of shift. Other 2 at N Evington and Victoria Park, same area, handy for their families. I’d like to know the exact ages of the Pillar 2 positive results people, and what has happened to them since. Because actually we should be allowing the young and fit to catch it and recover, to protect the rest of us!

39368 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bruno, 2, #1078 of 1687 🔗

Interesting. I think there has been a certain level of half truths and manipulation of the data, wonder why!

39641 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1079 of 1687 🔗

One person’s ‘certain level’ is another’s ‘huge amount’, I guess. 🙂

39501 ▶▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Bruno, #1080 of 1687 🔗

On the subject of age related risk, I’ve been tabulating the published figures from the ONS, to show the total ‘COVID’ deaths, deaths per million and other numbers for each 5 year age band up to 90+

These are the figures for England and Wales as of 19th June and are I believe the deaths where COVID-19 were mentioned on the death certificate.

I wasn’t sure how to post the table here so I’ve created a tweet

https://mobile.twitter.com/dominic_j_wise/status/1278485199882510337?s=20

Feel free to print out and present to any young, or even middle aged hedge jumpers!

39422 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1081 of 1687 🔗

Slight problem: the PCR test isn’t a diagnostic for disease, it is just looking for viral genetic material. So even if it’s positive it means diddly-squat, not even a ‘case’. It was invented to test those who already had symptoms to identify the disease.

39298 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Julian, 5, #1082 of 1687 🔗

I’m not on tittletwatter – but surely we need stats of number of people needing ICU treetment leading up to new lockdown
You beat me by 6 seconds Cheezy

39313 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Julian, 5, #1083 of 1687 🔗

Simon Dolan will have plenty of suggestions when he has his day in court tomorrow

39323 ▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 5, #1084 of 1687 🔗

I think he’s got it covered. The whole thing is so transparent that you don’t need many questions to expose the bullshit and I think he has the right ones.

39396 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #1085 of 1687 🔗

Good lad, the Hitch. Thanks to his blog, I came to find and support Simon Dolan.

39291 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1086 of 1687 🔗

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-law-will-be-changed-to-enforce-local-lockdown-in-leicester-health-sec-says-12017819

It’s getting to the point where we don’t know what’s law and what isn’t. That’s probbaly the point!

They are good at rushing though instant draconian laws but look when they have to do something practical:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53247817

39367 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Cheezilla, #1087 of 1687 🔗

http://www.laworfiction.com/
Check out this site delving into exactly that problem, the law vs what the public perceive

39402 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Cheezilla, #1088 of 1687 🔗

http://www.laworfiction.com/
This is a new site dealing with this exact problem, the law vs what the public perceive as the law due to government propaganda and misdirection and/or sheer incompetence…

39309 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 7, #1089 of 1687 🔗
39362 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1090 of 1687 🔗

I do hope so 🤣

39411 ▶▶ annie, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #1091 of 1687 🔗

Praying hard.

39458 ▶▶ guy153, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1092 of 1687 🔗

I hope it goes well for Dolan. But the fundamental problem is that Johnson has a big majority and (and an opposition who won’t provide any). An Act of Parliament always trumps anything else in the UK “constitution” as it has democratic legitimacy.

This is a very differently balanced situation to the court case over the unlawful prorogation of Parliament last year where Johnson had no majority.

If he doesn’t like what the court rules this time he can just make as many draconian new laws in his own favour as he likes and I fear that the net effect of taking him to court may be negative.

39463 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to guy153, 3, #1093 of 1687 🔗

my initial worry is there will be no coverage in the media.

39324 AN other lockdown sceptic, 8, #1094 of 1687 🔗

What are the chances that a member of our parliament will hold the public health scare mongers to account like this?

Rand Paul GRILLS Dr. Fauci for His Inconsistencies on Coronavirus Guidance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-v0BxLUEdU

39333 djaustin, replying to djaustin, #1095 of 1687 🔗

All-cause deaths will be below the average about half the time if there is no reason for any deviation, that’s how noise works. What matters is that they are back in the ten-year range of past weekly max and min. It is possible that fewer people will die in the second half of 2020, but equally they may not, and that COVID19 has reduced life expectancy very slightly. We shall see. I’m less enthusiastic.

Five year weighted mean is not really the right metric for mortality. Even if an extra 100k people die by the end of year, that would only be about an 18% increase in the total, which does not sound that much. Surprisingly we live quite a long time, so the absolute increase will never be huge. But that’s not the point really. COVID19!has generated a significant spike with rate of deaths doubling at peak. I will accept that this is not the plague 😉

39336 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to djaustin, 17, #1096 of 1687 🔗

“COVID19!has generated a significant spike with rate of deaths doubling at peak”

No it hasn’t. Covid 19 combined with official responses to it , has caused an increase in the rate of deaths of old people for a short period.

39349 ▶▶ matt, replying to djaustin, #1097 of 1687 🔗

I think it’s necessarily the case that long-term, an additional endemic virus that causes sometimes deadly complications for people who are old and unwell or just very unwell will reduce life expectancy very slightly, surely?

39387 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to matt, #1098 of 1687 🔗

Not necessarily. It might be that exposure to the virus toughens up our immune responses to related viruses, resulting in an extended life expectancy on average.

39413 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1099 of 1687 🔗

I think that’s a stretch. In reality, this thing will kick around forever and it will pick some people off forever. Meaning that some people will die somewhat earlier than they otherwise would have done. Probably not much earlier, but fundamentally a new cause of (or contributory factor to) death must mean a marginally lowered life expectancy. Very marginally, probably, but nonetheless.

39444 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 1, #1100 of 1687 🔗

In the very long term the evolution of the immune system keeps up with the viruses. That’s why we have all these T-cells and amazingly sophisticated immune systems and are still here.

But for the foreseeable future I think you’re right. Basically it’s one more thing to die of and as it kills very few people young enough to be having children it is not applying much evolutionary pressure.

Much more significant in the real world is how we react technologically. We will make progress in treating and vaccinating for this kind of thing which will reduce mortality from similar viruses in the near future. But the recession will reduce life expectancy by more than that for at least as long as that lasts.

39639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, #1101 of 1687 🔗

We will make progress treating – sure.

We will make progress vaccinating – first time for everything, eh ? 🙂

(Interests me that people who can see through this lockdown/distancing/mask bollox are still enthralled by vaccines. I suppose it needs quite a bit of reading, study, examination and comparison of sources, realization of the nature of big pharma, ability to disagree with consensus think, etc., before the truth can be accepted.).

39355 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to djaustin, 9, #1102 of 1687 🔗

The lockdown created the spike and it’s time you accepted it.

39449 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Farinances, 3, #1103 of 1687 🔗

Obviously Covid did cause a bunch of excess deaths. And the lockdown has caused some more. And the recession will cause some more on top of that. And maybe some of the vaccine programs will go horribly wrong and cause some more.

39383 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to djaustin, 2, #1104 of 1687 🔗

If there is not a long period of negative excess deaths going forward it will be because the lockdown has been killing people – depriving them of effective medical care. Or do you believe that 95 year olds live forever?

39421 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, #1105 of 1687 🔗

Exactly. The spike occured basically *exactly* as soon as lockdown started. – way too soon for it to be a protected covid effect. Plus like, surely there would have been NO spike at all (flatten the curve!) if lockdown had worked?!

39423 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 1, #1106 of 1687 🔗

Whereas of course lockdown collateral deaths (heart attacks, suicides, neglect etc.) would have been almost instantaneous as soon as NHS became the NCS

39357 Paul, replying to Paul, 14, #1107 of 1687 🔗

I’ve just heard about a local pub that is opening,I won’t be going though.

Limit of 10 customers inside and 10 outside at any one time.
Customer details to be taken on entry and sanitiser at door.
A line of bollards to keep customers back from the bar,order drink at one end and collect it at the other and no lingering around the bar area.
Customers must remain seated.
Music will be played at low volume,no singing,shouting or chanting.

There is no mention of a drink or time limit but I wouldn’t be surprised.
It really sounds like a good night out !,I have suggested that they are cutting their own throat but they say they are following guidelines,I responded that they are advisory not legally enforceable,I have asked who is compelling them to make a pub visit so miserable but I haven’t had a response yet.
This is a privately owned pub and not part of a chain.

39358 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Paul, 8, #1108 of 1687 🔗

Customer details…
Name?
Rudy R. Deer
Address
1 Iced Block
Pole Road
Iggcester

39378 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nick Rose, 13, #1109 of 1687 🔗

Name? Matt Hancock

Address 1 Wanker Way, Jobcaster 1D82BU

39394 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 1, #1110 of 1687 🔗

lol!!

39531 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1111 of 1687 🔗

Worth checking some of Bart Simpson’s prank calls to Moe’s
e.g. Seymour Butz, Hugh Jass, Mike Rotch…

39576 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Alec in France, #1112 of 1687 🔗

Amanda hugnkiss

39363 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 8, #1113 of 1687 🔗

They may aswell just stick the ‘Closed’ sign on now. Why they think anyone is going to be so desperate for a drink to go for all that malarky is beyond me.

39375 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Paul, 1, #1114 of 1687 🔗

We need a Campaign for Real Pubs…

39417 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to OKUK, 5, #1115 of 1687 🔗

CAMRA had vote a couple of years ago, trying to work out what to do next. You see, they’d won the campaign for real ale, so they needed to find their purpose.

It occurs to me that actually, they would very likely be prepared to get involved in being the campaign for real pubs.

39502 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 2, #1116 of 1687 🔗

Absolutely. Pubs are absolutely at the centre of our brilliant British culture.

The first thing any patriotic populist government would do is make our pubs much more popular by reducing the duty on the alcohol they serve and heaping it on to our Far Left Fascist BLM supporting supermarkets.

39390 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Paul, 3, #1117 of 1687 🔗
39400 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Paul, 3, #1118 of 1687 🔗

Surprised they didn’t stipulate no laughing. Care to name the establishment and share contact details?

39431 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 13, #1119 of 1687 🔗

Local pub posted this on facebook:

“So as many pubs we will reopen this Saturday. Hopefully, the experience won’t be too different from what pubs looked like before.
“Anything that is different is not because we want it to be or were being awkward it’s what we have to do.
MYTH BUSTING:
* You won’t have to wear masks
* You won’t have to book a table
* You won’t be limited how long you can stay
“You won’t be excused bad manners cos you have been stuck at home for four months, the wife and kids have pecked your head in, and you’re at breaking point
“You won’t be allowed to dance on the bar singing LaLaLa!”

Good luck to them. Maybe there’s hope ….

39437 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1120 of 1687 🔗

Well I’d go there for a drink

39446 ▶▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1121 of 1687 🔗

Don’t worry they’ll be at least one pub like this in every town,the following week two then more as people vote with their feet

39512 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1122 of 1687 🔗

God be praised! A human voice!

39410 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Paul, 6, #1123 of 1687 🔗

Mental, I was just talking to a local publican who is opening up on the 4th. Very interesting, its a small pub just out of town with a little garden. Nice. It never was very busy before the corona project. He is a new owner. Its a chain pub. He could be described as a sceptic thankfully, so much so I awarded him a badge!
So this is what they are going to do, a one way system, stay back markers on the floor near the bar, some system of paying for drinks at one end of the bar and picking them up at the other, no screens, no PPE. Limits on the numbers of people inside and in the garden. He said they have taken out one of the three urinals so social distancing urination can be done “as safely as possible”, he said that the track and trace BS is up for discussion and cited the data protection thing. It sounds like he won’t be doing it. I pointed him to the Marlstons CEO. His chain manager visited and did a risk assessment today and its all good with the management chain. I think the top brass are having big discussions about the track and track thing.

What he is worried about is drunk people not socially distancing and the trouble that might cause. People getting arsey of having their space invaded kicking off, locals complaining of people getting to close. Just the fact that the whole town might be out at one time, people coming from out of town because of the garden and mobbing the place. Its all a huge unknown and he is quite worried about it. I think they will be fine as the pub is usually empty most of the time normally.

He also was saying that he won’t be waiting too long before they really relax all the rules as it is just a quiet little pub with just a few customers. this could happen within a few weeks he hopes. Al in all a nice guy and it was quite heartening to talk to him. This might be my new local although I yearn to see a pub band again, even a really bad one.

39425 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1124 of 1687 🔗

I think there’s going to be a big problem on Saturday when loads of people excitedly turn up at their local to find that they’re not allowed in.
I foresee a lot of violence – hopefully not to be taken out on the poor landlords.
Pity their local MPs can’t be in the stocks outside, waiting to greet them.

39445 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1125 of 1687 🔗

I am astounded that someone would kick off in a pub because someone else is too close to them. If you’re concerned about nasty anti-social distancing, don’t go to the bloody pub! Grrrr! (Not too happy to know he’s compromised on hygiene in the lavatorial department. Crazy.)

39511 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1126 of 1687 🔗

Socially distanced urination … oh gee. Have they installed cameras in pub loos to ensure compliance? Watching them would make a nice job for some of the forthcoming millions of unemployed.

(Note: in 1984 ,’you could be sure that they [lavatory cubicles] were watched continuously’.)

39440 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Paul, #1127 of 1687 🔗

I’d pop my head round the door half an hour before closing time -assuming they are not shut already!

39455 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Paul, 7, #1128 of 1687 🔗

Seriously, why would you bother?! Much as I don’t want pubs to go bust, I hope no one does. Then they might actually have to give up on some of this stupidity.

39551 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 2, #1129 of 1687 🔗

Another one to be boycotted.

My details?

Carrie Symonds
10 Downing Street
London
SW1A

39555 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1130 of 1687 🔗

Bart, I think you may also have hit on why Boris is acting the way he is: a much younger OH. Pillow-talk probably a powerful determining factor in his decision making at the moment.

39587 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 2, #1131 of 1687 🔗

Agree. It was David Starkey I believe who described her as sentimental and wishy-washy and hence has an influence on Boris and how he’s behaving.

I know this is controversial but that’s why I think people who are below the age of 55 and who have children under the age of 18 (or even 21) should be barred from politics because apart from the lack of real life experience having children (especially very young ones) clouds their judgment and decision making.

39599 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1132 of 1687 🔗

I think that accurately sums up the woeful state of decision-making at the moment: it being based solely on sentimentality and a desire to avoid bad newspaper headlines rather than being founded upon reason and truth.

39650 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #1133 of 1687 🔗

Agree. And there’s also cowardice – the unwillingness to make decision that might be unpopular but is right. They tried to appease the MSM and now the consequences of that appeasement is starting to come.

39579 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Paul, 2, #1134 of 1687 🔗

Chatting to a local businessman who runs a local pub as a sideline rather than his main business, it’s sort of his wife’s hobby business thing.

Anyway he says following the guidelines he can have a maximum of 15 people at one time so he is to decide whether just to stay shut as it’s not worth opening or opening paying lips service to the guidelines – he knows they are not enforceable – then get ready for a fight with the licensing committee and environmental health but the problem is after 3 months of his other businesses being shutdown he has no ready cash for a fight as any restrictions should be in writing as per the Public health (Control of Disease) Act 1984.

He’ll probably stay shut.

39364 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Anthony, 2, #1136 of 1687 🔗

👍

39374 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Anthony, 3, #1137 of 1687 🔗

Shome mishtake surely? As a former Telegraph editor used to ask. But no – not in this case!

39456 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to OKUK, 1, #1138 of 1687 🔗

Didn’t know Sean Connery was at the Torygraph! Sorry 😐 Just trying to cheer myself up. Indeedes.

39500 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to James Leary #KBF, #1139 of 1687 🔗

Yes – he had a licence to kill a story if the Conservative PM of the day asked him nicely.

39377 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Anthony, 1, #1140 of 1687 🔗

and too soon to be a result of the re-lockdown..

39380 ▶▶▶ Anthony, replying to Carrie, 5, #1141 of 1687 🔗

6.7 cases per 100,000. WTF are we doing??

39386 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Anthony, 8, #1142 of 1687 🔗

Surely someone can get Hancock on this? He’s been rumbled!

The data showed that Leicester was showing a decline in the rate of cases , from 140.2 to 135.7 per 100,000, before Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, said the city had to go into lockdown.

(bear in mind that epidemic levels are almost 4x this level, at 400 per 100,000)

So were they going to use this decline to claim that the lockdown worked?

39391 ▶▶▶ Anthony, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1143 of 1687 🔗

Just imagine if infections in Leicester started to rise after the re-lockdown.

39415 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Anthony, 1, #1144 of 1687 🔗

It would be blamed on the people, somehow…

39393 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1145 of 1687 🔗

Running scared of tomorrow’s case. I hope, anyway.

39399 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1146 of 1687 🔗

Nadine Dorries is getting slated on Twitter for her post re Leicester! Hope that she reads the replies because the government will then see that they have been rumbled!

39435 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, 3, #1147 of 1687 🔗

Nadine Dorries is possibly THE THICKEST politician ever to have held public office. She really should have stuck with talking inane crap about cannabis. She makes Sarah Palin look quite bright.

39621 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #1148 of 1687 🔗

Not sure cannabis deserves her nonsensical babble, 2-6 … 🙂

39405 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Anthony, #1149 of 1687 🔗

Comments allowed too. Get on there folks!

39361 Country Mumkin, #1150 of 1687 🔗

Analysis and justifications of the Leicester situation. Only published 29 June 2020. Perhaps for Simon Dolan hearing defence? https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/897128/COVID-19_activity_Leicester_Final-report_010720_v3.pdf

39416 Doctor Y, replying to Doctor Y, 19, #1151 of 1687 🔗

Facts about the Leicester tiny “cluster” of Covid-19 cases from Public Health England.
It’s not an outbreak if it’s less than 0.1% of the population in total over a 3 week period… we don’t need to worry about people escaping at the edges of the lockdown zones. You’d need to hug 1000 of them to find one with covid-19…
It raises a lot more questions than it answers including:
Why are they are choosing to remove education again from asymptomatic children? (We still know they are more likely to be killed by a male family member or get struck by lightening than get seriously ill or die from Covid-19)
1 child got admitted to Leicester hospitals back in May with covid-19. 1 (they recovered). None since.
There are 1.1million people in Leicester and Leicestershire, in case you were wondering. The most interesting part of this document is the absolute lack of denominator for any of their figures.
(There also appears to be an error in their report regarding community testing of 0-19 age group percentage positive results. The graph shows 5% of all tests positive very clearly but report states 15%.)
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/897128/COVID-19_activity_Leicester_Final-report_010720_v3.pdf

39427 ▶▶ matt, replying to Doctor Y, 1, #1152 of 1687 🔗

Arbitrary, in other words?

39433 ▶▶ matt, replying to Doctor Y, 2, #1153 of 1687 🔗

I’d point you at the post above, with Peter Hitchens’ tweet lookIng for questions to ask about Leicester.

39470 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Doctor Y, #1154 of 1687 🔗

This is a very interesting and revealing document which answers some of the questions I wondered about earlier. It shows that the so called ‘outbreak’ consists, against everything we know elsewhere, of cases (positive tests) in the younger age ranges, under 65! There is no correlation with care homes, and it concludes that the results ‘may’ be the result of increased availability of testing. Which is what a bit of casual Googling earlier today suggested: one test centre had been set up at Birsthall in early May, but 3 more were set up since 1 June, all of the latter situated in the heart of the garment district! Strongly suggests to me that the virus is circulating freely among the younger, fitter segment of the population without too much damage to their long term health. I expect it is throughout the rest of the country too (apart from London, where most who were going to get it had had it by the end of March, with the under 65s (with no co morbidities) largely recovering without lasting damage).

39543 ▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to Bruno, 3, #1155 of 1687 🔗

Absolutely. I believe that the virus is running at about 1% asymptomatically in the working population. This is the number of positives that we have been running at (and I predicted) when we started testing every single maternity admission at leicester hospitals over a month ago.
The vast majority of these people have stayed well and none of them have been admitted to ITU.
I can’t get very worried about it to be honest. I am far more worried that people are missing much needed health care either due to fear OR because we can’t offer full elective working (mainly due to how complex it is to do surgery with full ppe and restrictions in theatre).
They are absolutely clustering the testing. Once your mate tests positive, of course you are going to go for a test. Cue an expanding pool of well positives, which look bad but actually mean nothing.
The report also demonstrates an incredibly poor level of manual tracking.

39880 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Doctor Y, 1, #1156 of 1687 🔗

Wait? — You have been testing every single healthy woman in labour since… May?

Why women in labour specifically? Have you been testing other ‘healthy’ admissions too?

39429 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 16, #1157 of 1687 🔗

Am I mad to think that the government has got it all wrong about lockdown? Just because we’re in the minority does that mean we’re wrong? Sorry, feeling down about it all again. I find it hard in discussions with others as I just can’t properly verbalise all that I know when counter arguments are posed and I end up feeling small and looking like a fool in front of my family. I just want it all to end, feel like it’s tearing my mind apart.

39432 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Moomin, 17, #1158 of 1687 🔗

No you’re not mad, because they have. ‘First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.’

39443 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Bella, 8, #1159 of 1687 🔗

Thanks Bella and Major Panic, the whole Leicester thing has just got me down, it’s just so deceitful and people actually want it to be like this.

39447 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Moomin, 6, #1160 of 1687 🔗

‘Some’ people want it to be like this Kevin. There’s a lot of sheep about but I don’t know about ‘most’. Most people didn’t vote for Hitler in the 1930s, he just did some wangling and hey presto god knows how many millions dead. The most vocal are not the most people. Witness BLM at the moment.

39450 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bella, 11, #1161 of 1687 🔗

I think this is true. I know lots of people who think it’s all a bit silly but are going along with it anyway, because really, what else can you do? I only know a handful who genuinely want this to continue. The Leciester thing has really got to me too. Just when we thought it might all be coming to a (glacially slow) end, they’ve shown us that they can and will lock any of us down, anywhere, and at any time. I’ve never felt less in control of my destiny!

39471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1162 of 1687 🔗

Hopefully the Leicester thing will create a shockwave that succeeds in waking some people up.

39452 ▶▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Bella, 6, #1163 of 1687 🔗

Good point, but how can we mobilise the silent majority? It’s almost like it needs someone very famous or with a lot of political clout to do it because we can’t do it by commenting on here.

39457 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Moomin, #1164 of 1687 🔗

If we’re talking famous, our friend Anna Brees interviewed Robbie Williams last week. He’s a troubled soul, much like many of us here, but it’s interesting to hear from someone of ‘celebrity’ status speaking so frank and open.

https://youtu.be/3oWqewTJvwE

39460 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Moomin, #1165 of 1687 🔗

Just posted this above. https://www.stopworldcontrol.com/en/ I think you have to start with yourself Kevin, don’t wait for The Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy.

39436 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Moomin, 5, #1166 of 1687 🔗

My family and friends just agree with me now to shut me up. It is what it is. Best thing is don’t take yourself or anybody else too seriously, it’ll come right eventually

39439 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Moomin, 4, #1167 of 1687 🔗

Totally understand – I have, ironically, been self isolating from some family members in that I don’t talk to them because I know they are drunk on the lockdown kool aid and will write me off as some fringe, conspiracy theorist lunatic. I have no solutions but I do understand. You are not mad.

39448 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Moomin, 15, #1168 of 1687 🔗

It’s supposed to. I know it’s just horrible. I think I just cannot talk about anything to do with this situation with my family. It has caused way too much division already, its terrible. They are believers. They take any counter narrative to the official line as a personal attack. They think I am mental. Where I can clearly see that they have been totally systematically brainwashed like almost everybody else. They just refuse to look at anything that overturns the official narrative and totally believe the news. Everything I say is just mental conspiracy theory stuff to them.

This psy-op has done ENORMOUS DAMAGE to MY family.

39461 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Two-Six, 10, #1169 of 1687 🔗

My mother – in her eighties – thinks it’s complete bulshit.

39791 ▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Bella, #1170 of 1687 🔗

Mine too. She’s nearly 88.

39464 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Two-Six, 5, #1171 of 1687 🔗

It hasn’t had that effect in my family.

Of the seven members of my immediate family, none are actively pro-lockdown.

39618 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 5, #1172 of 1687 🔗

My brother expresses enormous outrage, he’s almost apoplectic, then he puts the phones down.
My mum, 90s, agrees it’s bollox. As do all of my neighbours who are over 60. (I blame the youth !).
My kids know it’s bollox, but tend to ‘go with the flow’.
My wife grew up in the Soviet Union, so is even more convinced than I am that it’s utter bollox.

It’s pretty easy to know the lockdowners are wrong – absolutely no sense of humour. 🙂

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” – Mark Twain.

39454 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Moomin, 10, #1173 of 1687 🔗

You’re certainly not mad
The other lot seem to me to be mad
We (sceptics) may have got this wrong, but I keep looking for logical arguments or evidence that supports what the government is doing and can’t find any
In the story, the emperor really didn’t have any clothes
Try to spend some time talking face to face with someone you trust who sees things in a similar way to you
It’s natural to be angry, but don’t let it ruin your health
The arguments are I think quite simple- you can’t lock down forever so you have to find a way to live with the virus over the long term that is sustainable for society and human life, by making sure you have the best health care response you can realistically provide, and protect the vulnerable as best you can
It’s the only sensible strategy
No one has a viable exit strategy from lockdown
Waiting for a vaccine is madness – none has ever been found for a coronavirus that works
Treatments will improve over time
Average life expectancy has been reduced by possibly a few months, around the 80 years old mark. It will creep up again, almost certainly, over time
There seems to be little or no correlation between lockdown severity and outcomes, across countries

39482 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, #1174 of 1687 🔗

Sadly some have come to the conclusion the only way out of this is eradicating the virus and are pushing for it.

39505 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Julian, #1175 of 1687 🔗

Thanks.

39510 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 4, #1176 of 1687 🔗

Try my favourite quote from 1984:

SANITY IS NOT STATISTICAL.

It doesn’t matter how many people believe this bollox, they are wrong and they are mad and you and I and the rest of the people here are sane and right. Stick with that. We will win out in the end.

39515 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to annie, 3, #1177 of 1687 🔗

Thanks. Didn’t sleep well, struggling to process it all still, especially recommendations to wear masks.

39466 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Moomin, 9, #1178 of 1687 🔗

Not, you’re not mad. We all thought this was rubbish from day one!

39507 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #1179 of 1687 🔗

Thanks, it just feels so isolating, no pun intended!

39468 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Moomin, 10, #1180 of 1687 🔗

You are not wrong. I am now horrified at how many people are actually controlled utterly by their instincts, just like animals. They think they are intelligent but actually they are robots at best. I grew up thinking optimistically about humanity, maybe even aspiring to ideals I saw in science fiction. Now all I see is sheep, gleefully waiting for the slaughter (aka fascism). There are so many examples in history where the minority were proven correct.

You are doubting yourself, which is the clearest sign of a rational mind. The sheep never doubt themselves. Don’t worry that you may struggle to express your opinion in pressured conversations. Some of us feel the need to think things through before responding with an instant mind-numbing response.

39479 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to TheBluePill, 3, #1181 of 1687 🔗

There are more sheep than ever, for sure. Radio, TV and the internet are all double edged swords. They help educate people but at the same time they send an implicit message: this is what you should think. Now all that is reinforced by universities – previously only a minority sport in the country but now probably half the population attend unis. Same story – they are better educated but also better understand what they are supposed to believe.

39516 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to OKUK, 1, #1182 of 1687 🔗

Perhaps this is why I find it simple to think for myself on this issue and do my own research from all sides. I don’t watch television. I don’t watch the “news”. I do read the Telegraph online for now as I have to keep up with travel regulations. But that’s it.

It’s not easy seemingly being out of step with the majority of society. But I’ve been anti authority all my life so maybe it comes easier because of that! However there are more and more of us now.

39506 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to TheBluePill, #1183 of 1687 🔗

Thanks.

39534 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Moomin, 14, #1184 of 1687 🔗

I’ve been accused of being obstinate and it’s causing some friction at home. I am genuinely worried that we will never get back to normal and people I know seem to be happy to play along.

I for one refuse to go to a pub or restaurant, log my personal details and be told where to sit, when to sit and how to sit. Maybe if I roll over I might have my belly rubbed.

As I’ve said freedom of choice and movement are being removed. Most people don’t seem to be realising or are just hoping it all goes away.

This whole situation is really angering me and getting me down. I’m an average 42 year old white working class man with no real political affiliation or opinions but what is happening now is wrong. In the space of 3 months nearly the whole population have been brainwashed and are scared of a common cold.

39578 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Moomin, 1, #1185 of 1687 🔗

I think it was Ghandi who said “you maybe a minority of one but the truth is still the truth” – paraphrased anyway.

He also wasn’t the pacifist that modern history makes of him, he believed you did not start a fight but it was ok to use violence to defend and protect yourself and others once you had been attacked.

Keep battling.

39593 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Moomin, 1, #1186 of 1687 🔗

No you’re not and please remember that you are not alone in thinking that.

39451 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, #1187 of 1687 🔗

https://twitter.com/JeremyJoseph/status/1278364366749020160?s=20

a guide to G A Y when they re open. I hope they post a follow up video to show how it went.

39453 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #1188 of 1687 🔗

Mental

39467 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1189 of 1687 🔗

wow. I had never heard of gay before. you people are weird. 🙂

39478 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to crimsonpirate, #1190 of 1687 🔗

Wouldn’t surprise me if some of them wear “untested” t-shirts just to add a bit of risk to their hook ups.

39459 Bella, replying to Bella, 3, #1191 of 1687 🔗

This link was posted on YouTube under Simon Dolan’s video about judicial review tomorrow. It might be useful. At first glance it looks intriguing (and very, very troubling.) Thought I’d share it here https://www.stopworldcontrol.com/en/

39484 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #1192 of 1687 🔗

Given the severity of the coronary crisis

Doesn’t help their cause!

39465 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 16, #1193 of 1687 🔗

Now I’m seeing that even places like National Review (not the institution, but some individual authors) – who should know a little something about constitutional rights and government overreach – are pushing for mandatory masking rules. Keep in mind, the only thing that has changed with respect to masking is that it has been repeated so often that it is becoming unquestioned conventional wisdom, even among doctors who really should no better. The “science” has not changed. No new revelations. Curves and outcomes look the same, regardless.

In my hometown, weeks ago, I predicted what this virus would do. The numbers of deaths and infections, the shape of the curve. This was weeks before the governor issued his mandatory mask executive order. Guess what? The virus has done exactly what was predicted. This morning, I saw an article that said “masks are working! Yakima cases in decline.”

We sacrificed the virgin, and the sun rose. So… I guess now we’re going to be sacrificing a virgin every day. This idiotic mask thing will not end unless it is resisted by intelligent people, and enough of them, who can articulate why it is such a bad idea.

39477 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to RyanM, 12, #1194 of 1687 🔗

The more I’ve seen mask wearers fiddling with their masks often with filthy dirty gloved hands that they then place on surfaces in shops and so on, the more disgusting they seem to me. They are really pathogen incubators.

39480 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to OKUK, 7, #1195 of 1687 🔗

There are discarded masks and gloves EVERYWHERE

39485 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Two-Six, 8, #1196 of 1687 🔗

If masks are needed to protect either the wearer or others from cv19, why are local authorities not providing bins for safe disposal?

39498 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Two-Six, 9, #1197 of 1687 🔗

Yes – I’ve noticed that…you see them on pavements – instant attraction for a passing toddler who will try to pick them up. What disgusting things they are.

Let’s live free and die free.

39481 ▶▶ assoc, replying to RyanM, 3, #1198 of 1687 🔗

Nicely put. The founding fathers would turn in their graves at what
has happened. Fortunately Trump doesn’t believe in all the hype and nor, I think, do many of the ordinary people.

39525 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to RyanM, 3, #1199 of 1687 🔗

Visited our local pharmacy here in SW France yesterday evening to pick up some medications (not Covid-related). I do not wear face nappies.

4 people already in the shop (although the posted limit is 3) – 2 middle-aged women muzzle-wearers, both scampered out past me looking terrified, and a younger mother and daughter who were not muzzled and were behaving quite normally.

I was served by the proprietor, who was wearing a mask but not covering his nose (!). I tried to pass him the documents under the minimal plastic screen but he was happy to reach round to take them and to hand things back.

Earlier in the week SWMBO visited our (one-man) GP surgery. He was masked but waved away her offer to wear one.

Similar situation in the local medical lab when she went for a routine blood test. Staff were masked and although the lab website requires clients to wear them, she was told that there was no need.

Interesting because the boss of the lab is the only person we know that (claims to) have had the Flu Manchu. Apparently he was very ill for around 10 days back in March.

39598 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RyanM, 3, #1200 of 1687 🔗

Looks like even concern for the environment has gone out of the window as we’ll see more masks and gloves end up in the landfill and water.

Even cloth masks ain’t good for the environment either – you need to wash them at high temperatures and what about the dyes used for the colours and prints? They can be toxic for humans and for the environment as well.

39483 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 22, #1201 of 1687 🔗

Toby,
Someone else has commented below about the confusion between what is the LAW and what is GUIDANCE (or regulation) concerning COVID-19.

Could you (or anyone else who reads this and has a handle on it) provide details or do a piece on what the LAW actually is and what is just guidance?

Thanks for the fantastic work on Lockdown Sceptics. I’m actually more depressed by the fact that so many people I know have swallowed the coronahoax hook, line and sinker. My degree was in Microbiology so I have some knowledge of bacteriology and virology but no amount of data or facts seem to satisfy these people who, for some reason(s) known only to themselves, appear to WANT to be scared witless (or some other word very close to that!) by something didn’t even know existed before 9 months ago, namely coronaviruses.

DavidC

39486 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to DavidC, 4, #1202 of 1687 🔗
39489 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bruno, #1203 of 1687 🔗

Thanks Sylvie.

DavidC

39491 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to DavidC, 4, #1204 of 1687 🔗

https://onepumpcourt.co.uk/news/covid-19-legal-mythbuster/
And here are some ‘myth busters’ from a reputable legal firm, bit more digestible.
There are a load of Regulations (law) as well, Google Coronavirus Regulations to find them, all very tedious (too many links and the reply gets delayed in posting here).

39493 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bruno, #1205 of 1687 🔗

Another upvote from me Sylvie!

I’m confused though by law (yes, understood), guidance (not enforceable legally) and rules and regulations (are they law and are they enforceable?). Grateful for any further insight you have (or anyone else reading this).

Thanks again Sylvie, appreciated.

DavidC

39496 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to DavidC, 2, #1206 of 1687 🔗

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/understanding-legislation#Howlegislationworks
You’re welcome! See above link for how it works. In brief, rules and regs are statutory and enforceable.
The guidance though isn’t. It’s on the gov.uk website, mostly. It trys to cover a range of circumstances and is a counsel of perfection, which could only be followed by a body endowed with unlimited time, money and manpower. But bodies like local authorities, schools, have to bend every effort to comply, because they’re responsible for aspects of people’s lives. Are you looking for help on anything in particular, I’m conscious there’s a huge mass of indigestible detail here?

39499 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 1, #1207 of 1687 🔗

And the different government Depts can lay Statutory Instruments to cover topics in their own areas, with 120 Corona virus related ones to date. Here’s a handy summary:
https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk/publications/data/coronavirus-statutory-instruments-dashboard#sis-by-department .
You’re probably sorry you asked now, apologies!

39503 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bruno, 4, #1208 of 1687 🔗

Lol! We’re obviously both night birds!

For sure, I’m not sorry at all I asked! It’s utterly confusing and I don’t think I’m dim. My degeree was in Microbiology so my take on this whole Covid-19 has been completely at odds with the narrative that has been pushed (foisted) on everyone – people suddenly ‘knowing’ everything about Coronaviruses, never having heard the term before November last year (it’s a family of nearly 40 viruses, first identified in the early 1960s, hence they were probably around well before that!).

Thanks again Sylvie, I’m sure other viewers of this will find your feedback illuminating and helpful.

DavidC

39580 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to DavidC, 1, #1209 of 1687 🔗

Ha ha, yes, sometimes I’m up late. Luckily nowadays I can compensate with a late start next day. It’s nice to know it’s been useful.
Is there something specific about your microbio background that makes you mistrust the narrative, or is it your general attitude to evidence, logical deduction from the facts? What first made you think ‘this just doesn’t stack up’?

39892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bruno, 2, #1210 of 1687 🔗

It’s been quite a few things, right from the start (and I’m not trying to make myself sound clever).

First it was the alarmist terminology making it sound as though this was a completely new virus – it’s not, it’s a variation of an existing one and ALL ‘lifeforms’ mutate, us/humans included! Part of my Microbiology degree was on viruses (which includes plant, bacterial as well as animal viruses – bacterial viruses are known as bacteriophages, one of the earlier identified plant ones was tobacco mosaic virus) and I was/am aware of the fact that coronaviruses as well as rhinoviruses and influenza viruses cause respiratory disease every year (CVs contributing between 7-15% ish) and have been around probably as long as us!

Suddenly ‘everyone’ was/is an expert on Covid-19 (originally nCov19) even though a) they had no background in Microbiology, b) had never even heard of Coronaviruses 6-9 months ago and c) have no knowledge AT ALL of virology – I’m not a virologist but at least I have some knowledge of how viruses replicate and the importance of microorganisms (both negatively AND positively – we wouldn’t be able to digest our food without bacteria!).

From there it’s just been the strange alarmist attitude of this particular disease and comparisons with previous SARS, MERS, bird flu, swine flu, Spanish flu, Hong Kong flu etc. outbreaks, in particular in relation to the population – for example the fact that comparing the 1999 flu to CoVid-19 where the UK population has grown 14% so on a proportional basis this year’s outbreak has been bad but not as bad as that one (let alone HK and Spanish flus!). Again, I’m not saying ‘I’m clever’ but I posted on a couple of sites and it’s now been drawn in to some of the sceptical sites.

There’s something going on which seems to have emanated or expanded since 911 to keep us scared, whether it’s been terrorism, foot and mouth, other diseases, climate change (has that suddenly disappeared? I have strong views on climate change which go against the narrative as well), Covid-19, BLM, ‘Second wave’ to keep people in a permanent state of fear. Note how with the relaxing of Covid-19 rules we’ve had a sudden outbreak of ‘terrorist’ attacks (Reading, Glasgow etc), another thing to ‘worry about’ – it’s all very strange.

To answer your questions specifically, it’s been a combination of my Microbiology knowledge, my scientific background and looking at facts, data and evidence, being a bit older (50 and a bit more!) I’ve SEEN and experienced things like this before. I’m pretty sure I had HK flu as a youngster, I was very ill, it wasn’t nice at all and it killed over 50,000 people in the UK alone (bearing in mind a smaller UK population in 1968/69). My Mother neither remembers me having it (it was ‘just another flu’) nor does she remember any alarmism, 24 hour media coverage etc etc, which says a lot about the way people coped with disease outbreaks compared to now.

A long response, I hope you found it interesting (and, indeed, anyone else who’s read it!).

DavidC

40045 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to DavidC, 1, #1211 of 1687 🔗

Nearly missed this! And it is interesting. Agree the alarmism is new, leading to the over reaction. I think it’s been a bit of follow my leader, everyone seeing what China did, forgetting their massive apartment blocks where conditions for transmission were ideal, and their culture in dealing with that, emphasising group, above individual, responsibility.
I can understand why we went into lockdown, before the evidence was in that children and indeed most under 65s were barely affected. It does seem unforgiveable to have kept us all there though, when children could have gone back to school and herd immunity encouraged in the working age population.

40284 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Sylvie, #1212 of 1687 🔗

Glad you found it interesting Sylvie, thanks for your response and I agree with what you say. A friend (who has polar views to mine!) asked ‘Well, what would YOU have done David?’. I told him I would IMMEDIATELY have stopped flights in to the UK,or, at the VERY least, from China, I would have focused on known susceptible or health-compromised people and would NOT have sent old people back from hospitals to nursing or care homes (that was just asking for trouble and I consider it effectively murder, it was disgusting to have done that). The Diamond Princess episode was a great ‘test tube experiment’ particularly as there were a lot of older people on the ship, yet the death rate was more or less in line with what would be expected of this type of disease.

Thanks again Sylvie, I’ll keep an eye out for your comments on Lockdown Sceptics.

David

40058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to DavidC, 1, #1213 of 1687 🔗

Hi David,

Great post! Just one thing, though- I believe Hong Kong flu killed 80,000 in the UK. It was the flu of 2017-18 which was apparently responsible for 50,000 deaths. The latter was subsequently reported in the media, but went pretty much under the radar, as flu always does. (It doesn’t have the word “novel” in front of it, so nobody really cares … it’s all part of the wallpaper.)

Thanks again – it was lovely to read your insights.

40297 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Gossamer, #1214 of 1687 🔗

Hi Gossamer,
Thanks for your comments regarding my post, much appreciated. You’re quite right of course, it was 80,000 in the HK flu!

In one sense, every year we have a different strain of ‘flu’ it’s a ‘novel’ virus, that’s why we don’t have only one vaccination for flu – and why Gates’s vaccination would never work, I don’t know why people are even buying into the idea (well, I do, it’s called indoctrination, and it’s a ‘vaccine’ I certainly won’t be volunteering for).

With bit of interwebthingy investigation one can see that most of the ‘big’ diseases of the past (Polio, Measles, Mumps etc) were in decline before vaccinations were ever available for them, due overwhelmingly to the changes in public health.

David

39497 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bruno, 3, #1215 of 1687 🔗

Lord Sumption – making up for his many previous grievous errors – has been good on the tyrannical implications of confusing laws with the wishes of Governments.

39509 ▶▶ annie, replying to DavidC, 3, #1216 of 1687 🔗

David – just a reminder – not all the law/guidance distinctions hold good for the Coviet Socialist Republics of Wales and Scotland,

39864 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to annie, #1217 of 1687 🔗

Hi Annie,
Yes, I’m aware of that but thanks for pointing it out. Your terminology made me laugh!

DavidC

39487 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1218 of 1687 🔗

Winter is going to be interesting.

Either the virus comes back or it doesn’t. Regardless, the hypocrisy of the “every death is one too many” brigade will come to the fore.

They’ll be happy to sit back and watch people die of the flu because that’s a more acceptable way to die, well we do have a vaccine so it’s ok to die from it.

Or

They’ll be so focused on controlling COVID-20 that they either won’t notice flu deaths or, as above, be ok with it as long as people don’t die from “Rona”.

39488 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1219 of 1687 🔗

Apparently they’ve found another ‘pandemic flu virus’ in pigs in China. How convenient, they’re determined to completely f^ck us over. Meanwhile our fellow citizens in gimp masks are happy to bend over and get shafted on our behalf

39541 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to T. Prince, #1220 of 1687 🔗

How covenient indeed. A week or two ago ‘they’ came out with 1.3 million unknown viruses are out there waiting for us duh*duh*derr. But wait, they didn’t stop there! As humans encroach on these wild areas more unknowns will be realeased and free to maraude the planet.

So living in boxes with daily vaccines it is then. Large expanses of wild land no one can enter. Pass the Soma it sounds like a brave new world.

Thank holy Moses that all explorers since forever have had a two week lockdown before returning to the Queen’s Head for a pint.

39547 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1221 of 1687 🔗

I thought CV19 had completely destroyed normal influenza. No one has caught or died from the normal flu since CV19 appeared on the scene.

39645 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lms23, 1, #1222 of 1687 🔗

Isnt it just! With c19 and all the promised new ones I’m thinking we may be socialliy distancing through influenza museums in future, oh I remember when I had that one…!

Where did the flu go?

That deserves a front page somewhere surely!

39504 OKUK, 3, #1223 of 1687 🔗

Lockdown scepticism is about free thinking and therefore is about resisting those who want to take away our natural free speech rights. Douglas Murray on good form here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDpujxB6Eoc

39513 Moomin, replying to Moomin, #1224 of 1687 🔗
39530 ▶▶ Rick, replying to Moomin, 7, #1225 of 1687 🔗

No

39545 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Moomin, 3, #1226 of 1687 🔗

It’s the Lancet. It’s no longer a reliable source of information. A paper it printed a couple of months ago rubbishing the use of hydroxychloroquine turned out to have been written by some political activists. The company that did the research had very few employees which included a sci-fi writer and a porn model, had no internet presence let alone a huge database of hydroxychloroquine studies from around the world. They pretty much made the whole thing g up to discredit Trump. The Lancet had to withdraw the research paper after it had been torn apart. Y real clinical scientists.
That’s what we’re dealing with now.

39590 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Moomin, 6, #1227 of 1687 🔗

It roughly translates as we scraped the barrel of statistical trickery to try to prove that masks work, didn’t find anything conclusive, but they probably do a bit because why wouldn’t they.

It’s somewhat reminiscent of the furious debate around bicycle helmets. Nobody can really prove anything. It seems obvious they should be a good idea but it’s equally plausible that in some cases they can make matters worse.

It’s the same for masks (and vaccines). They probably help a bit but can also cause harm. Either way all these things should be people’s free choices after being given the facts such as they are known.

39514 annie, replying to annie, 14, #1228 of 1687 🔗

Does anybody here have connections with Age UK? I just looked at their website. Not a word of concern about the abominable treatment of the elderly in care homes and hospitals, their isolation in the community, their severance from their families. Just a lot of saccharine blether.
Are they concerned about the aged or are they not?

39524 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 7, #1229 of 1687 🔗

They are a hideous organisation. Treated my late mum appallingly. To answer your last question Annie, no, they’re not.

39526 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to kh1485, 8, #1230 of 1687 🔗

I agree. Another charity which really exists for the benefit of those who run it. Useless where my elderly parents were concerned.

39528 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #1231 of 1687 🔗

Your description sums it up brilliantly (sadly). People believe this is a charity but it screwed money out of my mum for basically nothing.

39536 ▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #1232 of 1687 🔗

Yep, utterly useless towards my late parents & mother in law. Mind you the alzheimers society weren’t much better!

39533 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to annie, 3, #1233 of 1687 🔗

I agree, they are just a marketing organisation nowadays.

39540 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to bluemoon, 1, #1234 of 1687 🔗

Now I know.
Ugh.
Thanks!

39602 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 5, #1235 of 1687 🔗

Charities have been useless throughout this crisis. Look at the likes of Childline, Mind, the Samaritans – nothing about how lockdown and antisocial distancing has impacted badly on children and those with mental health issues.

Hence why I’m not surprised with Age UK. These charities also deserve to go bust.

39616 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #1236 of 1687 🔗

I have representatives of a certain charity use my coffee shop as office space to conduct interviews (it can’t be that happy a place to work as they have them quite regularly!) and they always, always want a receipt for their drinks in order, I presume, to claim on expenses which I think is a bit off. Also don’t know why they can’t just conduct an interview on-site without making it into a bit of a jolly.

39665 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 3, #1237 of 1687 🔗

I won’t be surprised if that’s part of the excuse – to go on a jolly. I know of many big companies who do their interviews in restaurants and its to establish how the applicants would treat people “below” them but for others its just an opportunity to get out of the office.

39617 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1238 of 1687 🔗

Some of them though haven’t stopped appealing for our money ‘at this difficult time’.

39668 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluemoon, 3, #1239 of 1687 🔗

Yes I have gotten some as well – they go straight into the recycling bin.

39619 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #1240 of 1687 🔗

Another point on charities, they make it nigh on impossible to volunteer. After my mum died, I tried to volunteer for Silverline. I understand completely their need to establish volunteers’ identity and whether they are deemed suitable/safe. But it was when I got to the question “What are your personal values?, that I gave up.

39662 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 3, #1241 of 1687 🔗

My husband tried to volunteer with the Samaritans but their inflexbility towards people who work full time put him off. When he pointed this out he was pretty much told to get lost.

39697 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1242 of 1687 🔗

I had cause to call Cruse (the bereavement ‘helpline’) and I hope to god the woman I spoke to never gets to the Samaritans. She would probably say “Oh, I’m just about to leave, just hurl yourself off the bridge will you, so I can go home” I felt far, far worse after I’d called them …

39746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #1243 of 1687 🔗

That’s really awful. People like that shouldn’t volunteer for these helplines.

39608 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to annie, 5, #1244 of 1687 🔗

I volunteer at a Citizens Advice Bureau and although this has been closed for face to face enquiries the paid staff and a handful of volunteers have been providing a phone and email service. At the same time plans are being made for various ways we can offer help and support In the future. So far enquiries have been fairly general, no-one is chasing debts, tenants are not been evicted, staff are on furlough etc. However there is a tsunami of desperate problems building up on the horizon and certainly our bureau is doing all it can to prepare for that.

39669 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Suitejb, 3, #1245 of 1687 🔗

I have a lot of respect for them. My local branch helped me out a few years’ ago and they were fantastic.

39517 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 12, #1246 of 1687 🔗

Surprise! Not. The government are pretty much lifting all quarantine and travel restrictions except to high Covid countries. Given up on air bridges. And right on the day of Simon’s court case too. Who’d have thought it?!

39535 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CarrieAH, 6, #1248 of 1687 🔗

I guess this is great news for my industry but more so for families being able to see each other again. The holiday experience is still going to be far from normal and I don’t expect a crazy rush of bookings.

39824 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #1249 of 1687 🔗

They’re blaming Mad Nic for the airbridge fiasco.

39520 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #1250 of 1687 🔗

Used to get 2 pints of Taddy for under a fiver way back in March. New prices are out…

39573 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1251 of 1687 🔗

Ouch – though hardly surprising, given the suicidal approach of ‘our’ government!

39823 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1252 of 1687 🔗

Yikes! Back to the supermarket then?

39521 Biker, replying to Biker, 22, #1253 of 1687 🔗

Not only are they making you book a slot for the dump but they are rationing them despite being able to book a slot any time you want because of lack of demand. Seems a service i’m forced to pay for by the armed government is being rationed. You can’t use the dump more than once every two weeks. These fuckers are doing everything they can to make life unbearable. I’m sick to fucking death of this shit. My son is gonna have missed 6 months of government lefty state education so it’s not been all bad but fucking Jesus i’ve had it up to here with all this bollocks. I can’t breathe any more. Worst of all to me, worse than the shut down and the queues and the loss of liberty is the people who think this is a good idea and want it to continue and want to force their fear on me. See everyone who wears a mask i consider a enemy combatant and a threat to my liberty and our countries freedom. If this shit don’t end soon i don’t know if i can go on with this much longer. We don’t need a court case we need a revolution. We need an new Parliament of individuals, not parties. We need the government scaled back to running the fucking lollipop ladies and lets leave the rest of it to our own choices. This shit is worse than being married and as everyone knows being married is the worst single thing a man can do, with maybe the exception of having children which no man wants.

39539 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 3, #1254 of 1687 🔗

Take your son out into the country and have fun together! Don’t despair! Keep biking!

39572 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Biker, #1255 of 1687 🔗

With you on most of that. Marriage, though: get it right (difficult!) and it’s great, get it wrong and it’s hell-on-earth!

39523 Tim Bidie, 21, #1256 of 1687 🔗

One of the most frustrating aspects of this entire global debacle is that anyone with the ability to conduct internet searches can work out what has been going on very quickly:

‘Infections have been associated with high rates of morbidity and mortality’

‘Pneumonia and lower respiratory tract infections remain the leading cause of mortality in NH (Nursing home) residents and a primary reason for resident transfer to a hospital.’

‘The single most important aspect of an infection prevention and control program is hand hygiene’

‘Common infections in nursing homes: a review of current issues and challenges’ 2011

‘Coronaviruses are sharply seasonal. They appear, based on serial interval and secondary infection risk, to have similar transmission potential to influenza A(H3N2) in the same population.’

‘….the coronaviruses are sharply seasonal with little spread after May until November or December.’

‘Coronavirus Occurrence and Transmission Over 8 Years in the HIVE Cohort of Households in Michigan’ 2020

Seasonal, similar in transmission to influenza, lethal in nursing homes but controllable via hand hygiene.

Errr….could that account for the very low and well controlled incidence of covid 19 in Japan (in summertime, good hand hygiene) and Hong Kong (in summertime, good hand hygiene)……..

Could we all please now get on with our lives?

39527 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1257 of 1687 🔗

Mask snobbery is it a thing yet? I am a pauper so if I am forced into a face covering at best it will be a pair of old tights.

Do mask wearers judge others on the quality of mask? No Nike swoosh on your mask; no joining the cool gang. Mask not surgical; we pity you.

Strikes me those given to wearing mssks may be susceptiable to mask shaming. Kind of awkward when masks have been mentally fused to the concept survival.

I mention Nike because it has been reported there was an outbreak of covid at a nike conference in February with delegates being wafted around the city of Edinburgh. Other, better sporting brands are available.

39564 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, #1258 of 1687 🔗
39622 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #1259 of 1687 🔗

ignore the link – my mistake

39818 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1260 of 1687 🔗

Someone on a hedgehog lover’s forum has made some hedgehog printed facemasks. I’m sure people will be gushing all over them.

39532 Richard G Brooke, replying to Richard G Brooke, 18, #1261 of 1687 🔗

I think the answer to how this state of affairs happened is much simpler than a consipiracy or stupidity. It’s philosophy: a set of fundamental ideas about the nature of existence and mankind’s place in it. No one can live without some kind of philsophy (even the Tories) which is why it’s so poweful. It influences everything you do. The problem is that the currently popular systems of philosophy are not consistent with the goal of living in earth.

Kant, Plato, Hume, Descartes, Nietzsche, Burke, Hegel, Marx, Wittgenstein, Russell, Sartre, Singer are all widely taught and admired in universities which is where our politicians pick up their ideas. Each of them has major flaws which ultimately lead them to declare human beings irrational and incapable of living without (coercive) guidance from some kind of authority, either the state, or the volk , or the class.

Unfortunately, this philosophy is then transmitted to those who don’t attend university through the intellectual activities of writers in the media and in the culture generally.

As an example consider how many times you’ve made an argument for leaving people free to make their own choices and the reply has been “ but not everyone’s as clever as you are “. The implication is that people need to be told what do to and what to think, even the “clever” ones because we all have to obey the same law. This idea comes from all of the above philosophers.

If you doubt the power of philosophy to drive history, I suggest reading this devastating analysis of how culturally advanced Germany caused two world wars:

https://amazon.co.uk/Leonard-Peikoff-Hitlers-Germany-Paperback/dp/B00RWNVDJA/

Thanks to centuries of bad philosophy that has undermined individual reason, responsibility and rights, we live in a country where the state is looked to to solve all our problems. If you think about how many areas of our lives are controlled and how many items on the list of recommendations in the Communist Manifesto are still in place, I think you will agree.

It’s not easy to change a culture’s philosophy, but the good news is there are some people who are trying. A paper from the Ayn Rand Institute in America (she was a brilliant advocate of reason and freedom) tries to explain how to deal with infectious diseases properly in a society that values freedom. It identifies the key philosophical mistake when it quotes the governor of New York (read Boris Johnson etc): “ [the] first order of business is save lives. Period. Whatever it costs .” Saving lives whatever the cost is exactly why there is so much support for the NHS. But logically, rationally, it means that the state must have absolute power.

Despite being under the influence of irrational philosophy, everyone has the ability to choose what they think and can therefore change their mind. By showing how state power applies in a different context, you can help people realise it is wrong to force them to do what’s good for them:

No one has the right to delegate to government the power to enforce on everyone a vegetarian diet or a two-hour-a-day exercise regime.

In public health the government’s proper goal is, fundamentally, no different from its goal in any other area: to protect our freedom. Its goal is to secure the rights of each of us to make the kinds of decisions listed above and then to act on the decisions we’ve made. Its goal is to secure the right of each of us to the pursuit of health, as an aspect of our right to the pursuit of happiness.

The full paper is here:
https://newideal.aynrand.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/A-Pro-Freedom-Approach-to-Infectious-Disease-June-21-2020.pdf

39538 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard G Brooke, 4, #1262 of 1687 🔗

Interesting. I wonder what is taught in Sweden. One underlying aspects of national Swedish character seems to be personal and collective self responsibility. Tegnel used this national trait in his calculations recently.

39569 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Basics, 2, #1263 of 1687 🔗

The trait that sadly seems to have all but disappeared from the UK.

39817 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #1264 of 1687 🔗

Thatcher destroyed our sense of community and created the culture of the individual in its place. The ethos is to get what you want, no matter who you step on to get there.

40409 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard G Brooke, replying to Cheezilla, #1265 of 1687 🔗

I beg to differ. I would suggest that a benevolent sense of community comes from people who respect each other’s rights including property rights. Thatcher’s main legacy was to give back some of those rights which had been ursurped by the state and unions. If you make everyone dependent on everyone else through laws that favour one group over another, as with socialism and today’s economy of favouritism, then we call become enemies of each other and a malevolent sense of community will result. Community as such is not a value – e.g. “we’re all in it together” during the virus. It depends what you’re in it for. The politics of individual freedom enables personal, chosen acts that benefit the community.

39546 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Richard G Brooke, #1266 of 1687 🔗

It would have been kinder to the rest of us to put ‘Rand’ nearer the top.

40408 ▶▶▶ Richard G Brooke, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1267 of 1687 🔗

Why kinder? Do you think Rand is wrong, that philosophy doesn’t matter, that reason and freedom aren’t important, or that individualism is evil? If so how would you justify those positions?

39542 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #1268 of 1687 🔗

Coronavirus: ‘No obvious source’ of Leicester Covid-19 outbreak
 The report said the increase in reported cases could be down to “growth in availability of testing”.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53257835

39554 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, #1269 of 1687 🔗

Now gone from their main page, but still in ‘Latest Covid News’ minus the bit about the increase being due to a growth in testing. So now it just looks as though the increase in ‘cases’ is real, but they don’t know the source of it. The earlier sub-heading made it clear that the increase in cases might not be real – a bit too controversial perhaps.

39589 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1270 of 1687 🔗

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/897128/COVID-19_activity_Leicester_Final-report_010720_v3.pdf
The full text of the actual PHE Leicester crisis report is here. Was posted by ‘a very concerned doctor’ below. Revealing.

39597 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 1, #1271 of 1687 🔗

His recent reply to me is buried below, but he says they’ve been testing all maternity admissions to Leicester hospitals since last month, and based on that he reckons there’s a 1% level of asymptomatic infection in the community, which is causing no issues to anyone. He’s more worried, of course, about the delays and backlog of operations for other conditions, more difficult and cumbersome in full PPE. I hope he keeps posting here, it will be pure gold to have reliable real time information from a Leics doctor.

39816 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 1, #1272 of 1687 🔗

Given the recent palaver in Weston where they had to admit that the tests were faulty, it did cross my mind that this could have happened in Leicester.

39612 ▶▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to Bruno, #1273 of 1687 🔗

You should send this to Toby

39568 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1274 of 1687 🔗

Yes, I love the ‘could be’ when everyone knows that should simply read ‘is’!

39813 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, #1275 of 1687 🔗

The article basically says it’s all a load of nonsense but hasn’t the guts to finish by writing that in conclusion.
Still, this is the beeb so it’s an encouraging start.

39544 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1276 of 1687 🔗

Forbes Censors Award-Winning Environmentalist’s Apology Over Three-Decade ‘Climate Scare’ – So Here It Is

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/forbes-censors-award-winning-environmentalists-apology-over-three-decade-climate-scare-so

39558 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1277 of 1687 🔗

Excellent – now we just need an Imperial College ‘Scientist’ to appologise for the covid19 alarmist scare

39563 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Major Panic, #1278 of 1687 🔗

We can but dream

39549 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 18, #1279 of 1687 🔗

I see Richard Horton, the editor of the Lancet, is in full flow about how the government’s response has been inadequate, complacent, a national scandal, etc. But we should never forget that he tweeted this in late January:

A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a ‘killer virus’ plus ‘growing fears’.
In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCov has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity.
There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language.

39553 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #1280 of 1687 🔗

Just like Fauci, who predicted – accurately – in late February in the New England Journal of Medicine that Covid-19 would most likely have flu-like lethality, and then almost immediately went rogue, claiming it was a great threat to society. Both are political animals.

39557 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1281 of 1687 🔗

Yeah, the Lancet:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/04/covid-19-lancet-retracts-paper-that-halted-hydroxychloroquine-trials

The company that did that much-publicised “research” had no internet presence, only half a dozen staff, one was a porn model and another a sci-fi writer. They claimed to have had a huge database of data from around the world, but what they quoted did not match up with the cases the various countries had declared. It was a fraud.

39566 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1282 of 1687 🔗

Noone ever lost money by over-estimating the hypocrisy shown by the Lancet editorials!

39565 ▶▶ IanE, replying to ambwozere, 1, #1284 of 1687 🔗

Very good.

Since Guido Fawke’s site is for fan-boys and ConHome is for the ultra-left-wing of the Party, I look at Conservativewoman if I ever wish to know what typical Conservatives are thinking!

39804 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ambwozere, #1285 of 1687 🔗

comment image ?width=700&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=30e7d6ed9ecc8c388183f9b38344b04d

39560 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 19, #1287 of 1687 🔗

Strong image in the Wall Street Journal today:

39562 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1288 of 1687 🔗

Yes indeed – I would love to know who is wielding the giant hand. Of course, if I ever found out, they would, doubtless, have to kill me!

39567 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1289 of 1687 🔗

Anyone know how do you put pictures with the comments?

Before there was little icon at the bottom of the comments box but it’s not there anymore on my browser.

39570 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Awkward Git, #1290 of 1687 🔗

Still there for me on laptop but not on phone.

39571 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, #1291 of 1687 🔗

That’s me bamboozled. Will have to play with browsers then.

39575 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Awkward Git, #1292 of 1687 🔗

I use Brave

39574 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #1293 of 1687 🔗

Folks, where can I find the latest regs regarding visiting Wales? Are we English still banned? I’d like to do a trip of a few hours duration, just to visit my lad, whom we haven,t seen since Christmas. He tells us we still can’t visit him but he isn’t really sure of what’s happening either. It,s just gotten too complicated.

39588 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #1294 of 1687 🔗

Officially, you cannot come here for exercise (walking, sightseeing, enjoying yourself) and everywhere is still shut, so you can’t stay anywhere or camp anywhere. I don’t know where your lad is living, but if it was me, I’d avoid roads where possible which have number plate recognition or traffic management cameras, which I suspect are the ones they are using. These are usually found on A roads. Come across the border and use b-roads where possible (though they are digging a lot of these up). If this is not possible, cross the border during rush hour, when people may feasibly be travelling to work or from work.

It is best if your car displays no national symbols on it, Wales, England or Great Britain, if you have a roof rack remove it, if you have a roof rack with a storage box on it DEFINITELY remove it. Try not to look like visitors.

The chances are that nobody will notice, unless you head for the more touristy areas, and the further into Wales you travel, the odds shorten on being caught. The worst that will happen if caught by the Stasi Police is that you’ll be escorted back to the border. I frequently cross the border into England and back and have never had a problem. But then I live very close to the border in an industrial area and people moving across it in both directions all the time.

Please note that this is guidance. Some things change without notice, some things are a-changing this weekend. But not enough and nowhere near quickly enough.

39594 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1295 of 1687 🔗

I don’t know whether to laugh at the absolute absurdity of all that or cry at the stupid senselessness of it all. It sounds like a Cold War spy story! I’m going with laughing but so sorry for those affected by the restrictions.

39604 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Suitejb, 4, #1296 of 1687 🔗

It is ridiculous. Somebody was stopped a while ago, travelling from London to Snowdon and turned around. Another couple were “escorted from Wales” when on their way to Pembrokeshire. Quite how far these managed to get, I have no idea.

It really is a gulag.

39610 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Suitejb, 4, #1297 of 1687 🔗

Chances are you won’t be caught, but the Communists who run Wales are loving their power trip for the moment.

39596 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1298 of 1687 🔗

The absurdity of it all. Deploy roof rack with decoy item such as Washing Machine or Fridge. A rolled carpet would have plod looking the other way.

39606 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, #1299 of 1687 🔗

Agreed.

39611 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, 2, #1300 of 1687 🔗

”Private Ambulance” stickers on your car, an estate would help, won’t work on a fiat 500

39626 ▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #1301 of 1687 🔗

I had a reaction similar to Suitejb: half way through the text, when the stickers etc. were mentioned, I all of a sudden realized how utterly ridiculous what you were writing about actually is. You are not describing how to cross the border escaping the DDR in 1972, this is England to Wales in 2020! And sorry but how ever much the locals would like to imagine it is, that’s not even an international border!

Not that it is any better here in the Netherlands of course. Here we had the situation in which the Belgian “pleasure consultants” (“sex workers”, formerly “whores”) were allowed from 8 June to open up (sorry, couldn’t resist it…) their trade before their Dutch colleagues (on 1 July). Which led to questions on some bulletin boards on how to cross the border into Belgium illegally from the Netherlands (open from 15 June again). So for a week apparently some people tried to slip into Belgium for these “services”.

And talking about “sex workers”: the state propaganda in Belgium had apparently been so internalized among Belgian journalists that one article seriously suggested that Belgian prostitutes weren’t too happy about being allowed to go to work again because they were afraid to become “super spreaders”. (I just realized that that term in relation to prostitution is rather funny. Isn’t that exactly what their trade is about…?)

Use for instance Google Translate for the Belgian article: https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20200604_04981544

39653 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 3, #1302 of 1687 🔗

You’re right, it isn’t an international border. The authorities are just being twats about this, sorry for the language, but nothing else sums them up. They don’t seem to realise they have probably destroyed the hospitality industry here permanently.

I note that Cumbria/Lake District, which is opening up this weekend under the “English rules” is seeing a 300% increase in bookings over this time last year. Tells its own tale. Once the tourist takes his/her £ elsewhere, it’s gone for good.

39646 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #1303 of 1687 🔗

Presume that it is best to take with you anything you might possibly need, unless you do a passable welsh accent, in case you get reported by some shopkeeper for being an outsider?

39648 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 3, #1304 of 1687 🔗

Many people in Wales have no Welsh accent, or not a very easily discernible one. Also a lot of people not from Wales live here, so accent itself is no gimme. The real problem is your car. A quick pnc check will give your address and you do have to park it somewhere.

39670 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, #1305 of 1687 🔗

So sad. I had hoped Wales and Scotland would be standing against this insanity and offering a haven from Westminster’s decrees. Just so sad.

39797 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1306 of 1687 🔗

It just makes me mad that all this reckless destroying of businesses and making much of the population miserable is because a handful of sociopaths are scoring political points off each other.

39894 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1307 of 1687 🔗

Standing against? They are ten times worse. If you want to see what a left-wing lockdown looks like, look west or north.
A lot of poisonous anglophobia has been bubbling up in Wales during the present bollox. A lot of rabid pseudo-nationalists want to kill the tourist trade because most tourists are from our hated oppressors, the English.
These loathsome people are not, needless to say, dependent on tourism for their living.

39615 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #1308 of 1687 🔗

If you do get stopped just say you are driving for work. Legally that’s all you have to say. The police would then need reasonable grounds to think you were lying, such as having a surfboard on your roof rack, to request any further information. Travelling for/to work is perfectly legal within the legislation. If you say you are driving for work and they immediately ask what that work is and where you are doing it, your reply should be ‘what are your reasonable grounds for asking me that?’ Which should shut them up sharpish.

39620 ▶▶ Melangell, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #1309 of 1687 🔗

I have gone back and forth over the border with an “essential work” excuse in case needed, which it hasn’t been. It’s a concocted story but would serve if required.
Also a friend has just had two friends visit him from London. They took the train to Hereford and he picked them up and took them to his house in Hay-on-Wye. Short journey, minor roads, no probs.

39658 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Melangell, 1, #1310 of 1687 🔗

I cross the border all the time but then I know which roads they are watching and which ones have the cameras! I must say that you will be unlucky to be stopped, North Wales Police have difficulty in catching a cold, and I doubt if many of the other forces are much different. I’ve been stopped once, and that was well away from the border.

39671 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to thedarkhorse, #1311 of 1687 🔗

Apart from work, which other people have mentioned, surely your lad is VULNERABLE in some way ? Caring (and respite caring) for the vulnerable is allowed.

39832 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to JohnB, 1, #1312 of 1687 🔗

Lad….he’s an adult now, admittedly, and working….but he does actually have a long-term health problem…we like to keep an eye on him now and then, from a respectable distance.

39735 ▶▶ StevieH, replying to thedarkhorse, #1313 of 1687 🔗

Depends where he is in Wales, but if it’s convenient, go in and out on the M4 – it’s not policed (too dangerous on the motorway). My brother and his wife came to stay with us for a few days three weeks ago and had no problems. Week before last my wife and I travelled up to Liverpool through the borders (Brecon, Builth Wells, Newtown, Wrexham) to do a final clearance of the late sister-in-law’s house prior to completion on the sale. We only saw two police cars on the whole journey, and they were obviously responding to an incident.

39829 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to StevieH, 1, #1314 of 1687 🔗

He’s in Newport. I use the M4 and then the SDR from J24. He, on t’other hand, drives in and out of Wales with seemingly little problem!

40032 ▶▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to thedarkhorse, #1315 of 1687 🔗

Just do it! We’re near Neath and off to Malvern on Saturday to see the grandkids for the first time for months. We have a caravan on a park up there just a few miles from our daughter’s and they are finally opening up. Missus is quite excited (as am I).

39738 ▶▶ Steve, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #1316 of 1687 🔗

Do what you want. If you get stopped just say that you are on your way to pay respects to a family member in a cemetery. This is permitted under the Welsh Regulations without any specification of how far you can travel to visit.

Besides, the Welsh Police seem to have stopped posting on social media now about how they are stopping people and have turned their attentions to ensuring people are wearing seat belts.

39577 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #1317 of 1687 🔗

More high street absurdities:

https://twitter.com/ClaireAFC2020/status/1278447421249421312

Someone should compile all these examples of rank stupidity and turn it into a book.

39586 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1318 of 1687 🔗

It would have to come out as a rather long series though – like encyclopedias of old!

39609 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, #1319 of 1687 🔗

It would be – it could be a serial like what Charles Dickens used to so.

39582 Awkward Git, 6, #1320 of 1687 🔗

Found this site:

Dying from gastro-intestenal illnesses is more common than dying from covid-19 and they don’t falsify the cause of death:

http://deathmeters.info

Diarrhoea diseases 2.46 % of all deaths, today so far 1712 deaths, for 2020 so far 751328 deaths

Covid-19 deaths so far for 2020 518058 deaths

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/worldwide-graphs/#total-deaths

39691 ▶▶ Athanasius, replying to Cbird, 2, #1322 of 1687 🔗

I’m shocked, shocked I tell you.

39585 Cbird, replying to Cbird, 10, #1323 of 1687 🔗
39757 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cbird, 1, #1324 of 1687 🔗

How fortunate for our pro-lockdown leadership that the media is so easily disctracted from the care homes elephant in the room with second-wave red herrings.

Brilliant stuff!

39591 Basics, replying to Basics, #1325 of 1687 🔗

Mark Windows
Windows on the World podcast

Covid matters covered.

An amazing resource of explanation and comment about UN global sustainable development goals being rolled out in our local areas. All well sourced detail. Plenty of other topics covered as well. Piers Corbyn often contributes.

Excellent for many years.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBiIUhuT9EK0btwiZmRINHA

39667 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, #1326 of 1687 🔗

I can thoroughly recommend Mark Windows, he is RIGHT on point with The Corona Project.

This is a better link, his podcasts are way better than his youtube videos.
https://windowsontheworld.net/live-events/

39592 ambwozere, replying to ambwozere, 7, #1327 of 1687 🔗
39614 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to ambwozere, 18, #1328 of 1687 🔗

“Enough is enough. We now know that lockdown and its frightening repercussions are more deadly than the virus itself. Nobody will emerge from this untouched by its effects. This week, my Judicial Review of the Government’s actions will challenge their legality in High Court. The government has blood on its hands, for which it must be held accountable. Most importantly – lockdown can never be allowed to happen again.”

Great words from Simon Dolan in that article. Fingers crossed…

39644 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 10, #1329 of 1687 🔗

I took great delight yesterday in telling the Daily Telegraph that it and the rest of the MSM had blood on all their hands for their part in ramping up the terror and softening up tactics. Many thanks to Annie for discovering that little gem and posting it here!

39649 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1330 of 1687 🔗

Joshua Rozenberg is tweeting updates from the judicial review… fingers crossed for success!

39601 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1331 of 1687 🔗

How is this for stupidity:

Went to an old fashioned shop that is a manufacturer’s outlet for seconds etc (some really good bargains on wedgwood, royal dolton plates and waterford lead cut crystal glasses to be had, more civillised eating meals from proper china and glasses, snobby I know but hey ho after years of roughing it at work I like to do it properly when I can at home. Can’t afford it without the big discounts and I cannot ell the difference between their seconds and what are in the proper shops.)

They had just re-opened and had the perspex screens around the tills area but no masks, no face shields, no treating you like an infected leper and so on by staff.

Problem was there are no conveyor belts, you push your stuff down to the cashier. The perspex screen came up so far that they cashier could not reach the goods and you could not push them down far enough. Only option is for you to reach past the perspex screen to push everything down to the cashier who has nearly clambered onto where the goods are to reach them so you end up close together. Then at the other end the perspex screen stops and you stand about a foot apart when you get your purchases.

Everyone thought HSE were idiots and could not think their way out of a wet paper bag.

39605 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1332 of 1687 🔗

Idiots. Any agency implementing these rules should be made to work with them and to show business owners how to run a profitable business while adhering to their bonkers diktats.

39624 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, 4, #1333 of 1687 🔗

In times of crisis (even manufactured ones like now) out come the Nazis who have been desperately waiting in the wings as understudies praying for the leading actors to break their legs.Or doing the breaking themselves. (Make of that metaphor what you will.)

39636 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 4, #1334 of 1687 🔗

I know, they are just loving this while disingenuously professing to be acting in our best interests. From the be-visored functionaries at Waitrose to the BID bods in my town fussing round telling us what to do. They are all in their bloody element.

39656 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 1, #1335 of 1687 🔗

Who’s in charge of the BID people? Is it the council or the government?

39664 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1336 of 1687 🔗

The councils pay them a fat wedge to manage the town centres

39685 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, #1337 of 1687 🔗

That’s good because it’s the councils we need to pressurise to try to get some sanity into our town centres and they can probably set the limits of insanity. If the BID were under government control we’d have no chance.

39690 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1338 of 1687 🔗

When ours first started, their board was self-appointed and they basically got in under the radar (laughingly, one of the incentives to get us on board was that we could all club together to get cheaper photocopying paper – no joke …). It is now mostly made up of people who talk a lot but don’t really get anything done and who tell the rest of us how to manage our businesses. Then they charge a tax levy for the privilege.

39750 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 1, #1339 of 1687 🔗

My first husband was a councillor way back in the early 70s. He had a surprising amount of influence and worked hard for his constituents. He could get a lot of jobsworth nonsense sorted out, just by a mere visit to the office responsible.
Don’t know how it works nowadays of course!

40233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, #1340 of 1687 🔗

I bet you they are on 40k plus a year

39683 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #1341 of 1687 🔗

You’d have to be a total idiot to create such a setup.

39752 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, #1342 of 1687 🔗

Good grief!!!! At least the store doesn’t treat its customers like Typhoid Marys but that’s still bad.

39603 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #1343 of 1687 🔗

Does this amount to torture? Are we being tortured?

Amazing Polly a youtube researcher who has come up with some stunning finds througout c19/c84 thinks it may do. She uses a 1975 Amnesty International definition of torture and Bidermans ‘Chart of Coercion’ to looks into the matter.

A 40 minute tea break worth listening to. https://youtu.be/3yk3xezML8Q

39652 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 4, #1344 of 1687 🔗

We’re certainly being psyopped. And the Leicester maneovre could definitely pass for coercion.

39655 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 1, #1345 of 1687 🔗

Yep, the trauma-based mid control is akin to torture. Some nasty people about.

39661 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 4, #1346 of 1687 🔗

Yes. Absolutely. This is worth posting again.

This was posted on here by Alexander Whorf. It was so good I copied it.

Uncanny parallels between what governments have done and Dr Singer’s research on religious cults. Those responsible should be held to account.

Tactics for Psychological Coercion (AKA “Brainwashing”) – Dr Margaret Singer (1921-2003)

1.     EXACT REPETITION
Techniques to increase suggestibility and ‘soften up’ the individual via hypnotic or other suggestibility increasing techniques such as extended audio drills, excessive exact repetition of routine activities.

2.     SOCIAL ISOLATION
Establishment of control over the victim’s social environment, time, and sources of social support through creating social isolation; removing contact with family and friends, as well as persons who do not share group-approved attitudes.

3.     INFORMATION CONTROL
Rejection of alternate information and separate opinions. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss. Communication is highly controlled. An ‘in-group’ language is usually constructed.

4.     ALTER REALITY PERCEPTION
Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine reality awareness, world view, and defence mechanisms.

5.     CONFUSE TARGET
Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the victim to intense and frequently confusing, conflicting actions and situations which undermine the victim’s self-confidence and judgement.

6.     PUNISHMENT
Creating strong, aversive, emotional arousals in the subject by reactions such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, and manipulation.

7.     CONFORMITY THREATS
Intimidate with group-sanctioned psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested that failure to adopt the approved behavior will lead to severe punishment or the reappearance of a prior physical illness.

39680 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1347 of 1687 🔗

Thanks. Useful to have a copy. Will send to my councillor if she sends me a bedwetty response to my email.

39692 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1348 of 1687 🔗

Am saying thanks for replies and also to anyone passing please consider giving the link a watch. It spells out so clearly, thoughtfully and with sources that this is torture.

Our safe-guarding institutions are asleep, bought or incompetent.

39756 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, #1349 of 1687 🔗

Thanks for this. Have just copied it for my own use.

39777 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1350 of 1687 🔗

This is brilliant. Thanks for posting.

39688 ▶▶ Athanasius, replying to Basics, 7, #1351 of 1687 🔗

That was the conclusion I came to yesterday thinking all this over. Especially the Leicester farce, it’s so reminiscent of the way Russian communists would torture their subjects. Much less about physical pain than constantly wearing the prisoner down.
Another aspect of it is getting people to consent to absurdities – much like the false confession. Once someone can be made to say is true what they have always known to be false they have no self respect left; they are broken, and putty in the hands of their masters.
So not only all this Covid crap, but women are not women, a white Jesus is racist, and so on and so on – it all adds up to this effect.
A return to lockdown albeit on a local level just when a small amount of optimism is returning is so crushing. It is a naked display of power, the torturer humiliating the victim.
I am not doing well with this. Every time I start to think that I can get by, that I can put up with all the inconveniences and stupidity, there’s something else to beat me down. So yeah, I do think it’s torture.

39747 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Athanasius, #1352 of 1687 🔗

It is.

40231 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Athanasius, #1353 of 1687 🔗

It is, but we fight back. Rise up. It’s what you are here to do. Don’t let the bastards grind you down.

39890 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, #1354 of 1687 🔗

Old people in care homes most certainly are. Worse than Stalin’s political prisoners.

39623 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 3, #1355 of 1687 🔗

The latest from the Business ‘Improvement’ District in the People’s Republic of Royston Vasey:

(I have removed some names and substituted others to protect the identity of the perennially stupid)

Walk-through videos

Some of you have already filmed a walk-through video to show your customers what to expect when they come to your premises. This helps people know in advance AND promotes your shop.

When you record and post on your pages, tag [xxxxx] and we will promote it via the BID’s instacrap and twatter accounts. If you haven’t already, please like/follow these pages and tag us when you share your posts, so we can share your content.

Here are some examples from our businesses; [xxx], [xxxx] and [xxx]

If you’d like a hand with this, please send us an e-mail and one of the BID team can help film this with your. Keep left signage for pedestrians

Essex Highways and [xxx] have agreed to our proposal for a system to ‘keep left’ as we move about town. This will help us follow Government’s Covid-19 Safer Public Places within the context of the needs of our town, residents and businesses. There will be signage in appropriate places on the roads and lamp posts as a reminder.

Given the reduction from 2m to 1m+, in partnership with Royston Vasey Town Council, there won’t be any one-way paths as previously thought

39627 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 5, #1356 of 1687 🔗

Are you tempted to send a film of your premises to show how it should be done?
Thanks for the laugh BTW.

39628 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to bluemoon, 5, #1357 of 1687 🔗

Oh yes … I am already fashioning a mask/visor hybrid affair out of an old Waitrose bag!

Being, as I am, already on the BID naughty-step, I fear I will be further ostracized for NOT TAKING THIS SERIOUSLY ENOUGH!

39630 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to kh1485, 2, #1358 of 1687 🔗

go the otherway – go OTT with the guidlines – take it far too seriously – you may get a gold star – your rational customers will get it

39633 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Major Panic, 4, #1359 of 1687 🔗

Don’t joke about the ‘gold star’, it’s probably an idea the BID are working on already: ‘The most COVID-safe business in the town’ award!

39654 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 5, #1360 of 1687 🔗

I suggest disinfectant-filled troughs outside, for people to rinse their feet …

39660 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to JohnB, 6, #1361 of 1687 🔗

Oh yes! Just like we did at farm gates because of foot and mouth disease! Another one where Ferguson claimed thousands of deaths would occur …. and didn’t.

39887 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, #1362 of 1687 🔗

But customers will flock to you because you treat them as human beings.

39893 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, #1363 of 1687 🔗

Hopefully! I was just taking the mick re. the video and I don’t give a damn about being further ostracized (my face doesn’t fit because I say what I think and they don’t like that!). They can play at running towns all they like. The proof of who was right is in the comments I have had.

39659 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 4, #1364 of 1687 🔗

Absolute muppets. Crazy Crazy Crazy. BID’s totally SUCK! Write to their CEO. I have engaged mine. I think I might have red-pilled her a little.

39666 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1365 of 1687 🔗

I sort of view the way the BID have inveigled their way into the life of business owners in the same way I now view the the government’s current trickery of the populace at large.

I am a largely lone voice against their rank asinine diktats and bonkers ideas. Thankfully, there is a growing resistance nationwide against BIDs.

39702 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 2, #1366 of 1687 🔗

Vive la resistance!

39759 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 2, #1367 of 1687 🔗

The tide is slowly turning.

40229 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, #1368 of 1687 🔗

Too effing slowly

40228 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Two-Six, #1369 of 1687 🔗

I presume BID is the new name for jobsworth. Might be better off deployed collecting litter

39798 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 3, #1370 of 1687 🔗

These people are drunk on the power they now think they have,all I can say now is,come the popular uprising (very,very doubtful I know) these sort of idiots are going to be among the first against the wall.
Sorry,that’s probably a bit harsh,but I have absolutely had enough of all this,I don’t think it is ever going to end.It worries me that several people I know that I had managed to bring around to our way of thinking have begun to slip back to the other side this week.

39844 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 1, #1371 of 1687 🔗

I share your anger Paul. The Town Council bod who came round to our shop the other week and loftily announced “move these people, now ” is a particular thorn in our side. He did eventually relent though and although the park is off-limits, our outdoor seating area is deemed ‘safe’. And you know what, I now have to reserve slots for customers to have their … erm takeaways because I think word has got around that we are treating people like human beings and … we allow them to use the toilet!

No doubt tomorrow, in the run up to Super-Saturday, we will be having a royal visit to check our COVID-preparedness!

39872 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 1, #1372 of 1687 🔗

Good luck!

40224 ▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, #1373 of 1687 🔗

If there’s a keep left system I’ll walk on the right

39629 Dinger, replying to Dinger, 4, #1374 of 1687 🔗

Excellent post on Conservative Woman by Will Jones who has been a LS throughout https://conservativewoman.co.uk/now-the-proof-is-out-there-this-disaster-of-a-lockdown-has-harmed-not-helped/

39730 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Dinger, 1, #1375 of 1687 🔗

There is a commenter on there called Dacorum who needs to be taught a few truths. Rambles on about what would have happened without lockdown etc. with no evidence, no sources – just as if it were gospel truth.

Considering composing a reply explainig that infections peaked before lockdown, the Gompertz curve is the same regardless of lockdown and there is no previous evidence she can refer to as it has never been done before (besides the Mexico swine flu fiasco). Probably would be wasting my time though!

39745 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, #1376 of 1687 🔗

Might give some of the other readers some ammunition though.

39765 ▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Sarigan, #1377 of 1687 🔗

With that one, yes!

39634 sinopeguy, #1378 of 1687 🔗

Nicola’s latest announcements imminent. People of scotland prepare……..

39637 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 28, #1379 of 1687 🔗

I can hold back no longer! Sent this to my local council today via their complaints section on their website:

Dear Kingston Council,

I am writing to complain about the ridiculous social distancing measures put in place on Kingston Bridge, and similarly on the corner of the A308/A307 by Wilkos superstore. Not only are the heavy signage and traffic cones creating an eyesore, but they are completely disproportionate to the “risk” associated with Covid-19. I would like to make the following points:

– The risk of contracting Covid-19 disease outdoors by simply walking past someone in the street for a couple of seconds, is so inconsequentially small, the measures put in place are an unacceptable misuse of public funds spent on creating the signage and traffic cones put in place. To quote Dr Chris Smith, clinical lecturer in virology at the University of Cambridge, he has previously told the BBC that the chances of Covid-19 transmission outside are “vanishingly small” because “the amount of dilution from fresh air is so high”. Furthermore, Jonathan Van-Tam, the Deputy Chief Medical Officer for England, has said the virus appears to spread less easily outdoors because of the ventilation factor. At the end of April, he told the daily Downing Street briefing that “there is a definite truism across all of the science literature that ventilation is a most critical part of reducing transmission from respiratory viruses”. Mr Van-Tam explained that normal breezes and air currents appeared to quickly disperse “any kind of plumes of anything” around us. “So from that perspective, it is absolutely categorically clear that outdoor spaces with higher degrees of ventilation are less problematic environments for transmission than indoor spaces.”

– The reduced lanes on Kingston Bridge are causing significant congestion and tailbacks into Kingston, up to Hampton Court and as far back as Teddington. This causes vehicles to be idling whilst stationary, thus emitting significantly larger quantities of air pollution onto local high streets. If you are not aware, air pollution from vehicle emissions kills an estimated 40,000 people every year in the UK. By increasing congestion and reducing traffic flow, these measures are actually increasing emissions and therefore not saving lives, but killing people.

– The extra congestion will stifle people’s willingness to enter Kingston town centre and shop there. As the economy now re-opens, it is vital we encourage footfall into Kingston town centre, to support local businesses and the struggling high street. Any measures to deter people from shopping there will push more commerce online, and businesses such as retail, pubs, restaurants and cafes (due to open this Saturday, 4th July) will all struggle.

– Finally, the government’s latest announcement that social distancing is to be reduced to 1 metre from 4th July (down from 2 metres) means there is therefore no longer a legitimate reason to keep these measures in place.

To summarise: Waste of taxpayer’s money; disproportionate to the threat especially due to outdoor transmission being inconsequential; increasing congestion and air pollution; negatively impacts local businesses; goes against government guidance of 1 metre from 4th July 2020.

I do hope you will apply some common sense and have these unnecessary restrictions taken down with immediate effect.

P.S. Do you really feel that erecting seven separate signs in a row on the west side of the bridge are enough to get your message across? I mean, why not print another seven signs, “just in case”! Talk about over-zealous virtue-signalling; you really have excelled yourselves here.

39647 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RDawg, 9, #1380 of 1687 🔗

Good one!
We do need to prod the councils into sensible action. Our overpaid smug MPs are happily dossing around at home and it’s the councils who will ultimately get the local businesses up and running – or assist in their demise.

39651 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RDawg, 5, #1381 of 1687 🔗

Nice one Dawg.

39884 ▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 2, #1382 of 1687 🔗

Wonderful letter, congratulations.

39638 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 29, #1383 of 1687 🔗

Looking at the news today, I saw that our government is angry about the implementation of new laws in Hong Kong which appear to impinge on their liberty.

Doesn’t this astounding level of hypocrisy shout out at you? It does me. A hapless and fearful PM imposes the most draconian laws in living memory onto his own people for no discoverable reason, threatens to keep reimposing them indefinitely if we don’t all give up freedom of movement and freedom of speech, and then has the audacity to criticise another government for imposing something far less restrictive somewhere else and then offers free immigration to the entire population of said country if they feel like it – as if we are not overcrowded enough already on this small island, given, not as small as HK but still small.

Interesting also is the reaction of the young people in the two countries. In HK they are already out on the streets fighting for their liberty, whilst the youth here wage a laughable and totally pointless war on statuary.

God help us.

39876 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Old Bill, #1384 of 1687 🔗

The most draconian laws since Magna Carta 1215

39640 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 4, #1385 of 1687 🔗
39657 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to smileymiley, 4, #1386 of 1687 🔗

This Facebook post is identical to that below by a ‘very concerned doctor’ who seemingly is, or knows, someone who works in Leics hospitals. It seems that the Leicester results are a cluster effect in the garment district, younger people going to convenient new testing stations, testing positive, so of course their mates and family all then go too. The ‘doctor ‘ posits that results from testing all maternity hospital admissions last month show about a 1% level of asymptomatic infection in the community.
On the shambolic failure to share the Leica test results, the FT today reports:

‘Mr Hancock has also said he would only let PHE give data to local health officials who pledged to conform with data protection laws.

Andy Burnham, Labour mayor of Greater Manchester, said that was an excuse and that data protection consideration “should not be preventing information flow in a health crisis’.
This is presumably one side effect of the Lansley ‘reforms’, cannibalisation of public health provision and the NHS into non communicating fiefdoms.

39711 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bruno, #1387 of 1687 🔗

Sigh…kids do what their mates do, so once you can get one kid to get tested, others will follow in a herd… easy way for the government to get data, because kids are too young to understand the ramifications of their actions.

39789 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Carrie, #1388 of 1687 🔗

I doubt they’re kids, more like 20+ from the PHE visuals in their report. Working age.

39736 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 1, #1389 of 1687 🔗

Lansley is another evil Tory who has caused huge social problems.

39673 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1390 of 1687 🔗

At the risk of getting egg on my face I’m going to stick my neck out with a prediction for the FM for Scotlands announcement in half an hour.

The 2m rule will be relaxed, probably to 1m. However it will come with a proviso of mask wearing, at least indoors where social distancing is not possible or difficult.

It will be claimed that this is possible because Scotland is on the verge of eradicating the virus, but we must not let our guard down.

Switching from 2m will be a small reward for all the Scots have had to endure in getting to this stage. The suggestion will be that England will not be getting a reward as Scotland has managed the crisis better.

I’ve no insider information, only going from what I’ve been reading over the last few days from various sources. Just a bit of fun really.

39677 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #1391 of 1687 🔗

10.55 am in the Torygraph:

Reducing two-metre rule effectively means ending social distancing, expert warns Scotland should retain the two-metre social distancing rule as part of its efforts to combat Covid-19, an expert has said.
Behavioural scientist Professor Susan Michie, from University College London, was speaking as Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon prepares to announce the findings of a review into whether the two-metre rule should remain north of the border.
Prof Michie said the change is a “disaster waiting to happen”, insisting opening indoor areas in pubs is “probably the top of the level of the hierarchy of riskiness”.
Speaking on BBC Radio Scotland’s Good Morning Scotland programme, she said: “I think it is really misguided. I think it is asking for trouble. I think everybody can see what is going to happen. If we really want to eradicate this virus and get back to normal, this is exactly what we should not be doing.”
Prof Michie, a member of the Independent Sage expert group, said Scotland has so far performed “brilliantly” in tackling Covid-19, and warned against relaxing the two-metre rule.
She said Scotland should “keep on going in that careful, cautious way because it is obviously showing massive dividends compared to south of the border”.

39679 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #1392 of 1687 🔗

Behavioural Scientists…Evil

39694 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, #1393 of 1687 🔗

I’d spotted that’s the area of expertise!

39695 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Two-Six, 5, #1394 of 1687 🔗

Quite. See her biography here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Michie

A member of the Communist Party, no less. As a ‘behavioural scientist’ I expect her knowledge of epidemiology approximates to mine, or probably less.

39763 ▶▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1395 of 1687 🔗

Indeed; it is all “I think, I think, I think” – no actual evidence!

39784 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1396 of 1687 🔗

Was just about to post those very same words, 2-6 ! Trying to control people’s behaviour via these sorts of methods is a very big no-no , karma-wise.

39686 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1397 of 1687 🔗

Apparenlty only doom-mongers are allowed to air their views.

39689 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #1398 of 1687 🔗

Oh, F off! These “experts” (and they are nothing of the sort) would have us locked up, bemasked and antisocial distanced until the very last case on the entire planet recovered, and for a long while after that – just to be on the safe side! They are loving this hysteria and the chaos; they can’t get enough of it. They are completely detached from reality. They are a complete menace to society.

39805 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1399 of 1687 🔗

Not Susan Michie again! She’s loathsome.

39807 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, #1400 of 1687 🔗

What are they going to go when they’ve eradicated it? Man Hadrian’s Wall until the end of time?

39733 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1401 of 1687 🔗

Oh well, can’t win ’em all!

39734 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #1402 of 1687 🔗

Keep trying. Law of Attraction etc.

39742 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1403 of 1687 🔗

2 metres stays and face coverings come in. Because reasons.

39674 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1404 of 1687 🔗

Simon Dolan judicial review updates:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg

39681 ▶▶ PaulK, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1405 of 1687 🔗

Thank you Tom, really useful to know as I’m all over this!

39693 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PaulK, 2, #1406 of 1687 🔗

Justice Lewis thinks children travel to school on buses. Oh boy!

39696 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cheezilla, #1407 of 1687 🔗

They do! Buses crammed in morning and afternoon with them! Perhaps you don’t live in a town?

39732 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 1, #1408 of 1687 🔗

I do. Not many kids on buses round here.

39754 ▶▶▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Bruno, #1409 of 1687 🔗

Rural schools, most children bussed in.

39675 Two-Six, 4, #1410 of 1687 🔗

This virophobia is just terrible for the old people. It has to stop. The damage it is doing is incredible.

39687 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #1411 of 1687 🔗

Some sanity from the WHO!
https://twitter.com/i/status/1278425206965653504

Every person needs to look at their Covid-19 risk’ Dr Mike Ryan, executive director of the World Health Organization’s Health Emergencies Programme, has urged people to look at their own personal risk when deciding how to behave and interact with others during the Covid-19 pandemic.
“Every person needs to look at your own risk. You need to be aware of what is the local transmission, you need to know what the transmission in my area is,” he said.
“We do this every day in our lives as human beings, we manage risk, we decide when we cross the road, we decide when we fly, we decide when we have an operation or not have an operation.
“What we need is the information to make those risk-based decisions. We need to gain the knowledge to be able to make good decisions.
“We decide on our proximity to other individuals. We decide on the intensity of out social engagement.”

39698 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #1412 of 1687 🔗

This guy is gonna fall down the stairs or off a balcony or zip himself into a sports bag.

39699 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1413 of 1687 🔗

That’s too logical for the WHO!

39731 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #1414 of 1687 🔗

Actually it fits with the original advice to wash hands a lot and not to wear masks. They also said lockdowns don’t work but test and trace does – unless Matt Wankock is your Health Secretary, in which case you’ll leave it too late of course.

39749 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1415 of 1687 🔗

Actually WHO advice on pandemics was to not test and trace, a method of control that is only appropriate and proportionate to infectious diseases of limited numbers and specifiable contacts, eg, sexually transmitted diseases.

39714 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Two-Six, 6, #1416 of 1687 🔗

‘Zip himself into a sports bag.’ Love it! Got me laughing out loud. To think that was given as a supposedly ‘credible explanation’. Must be the same people who give us the bs about Social Distancing and muzzle wearing!

39728 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1417 of 1687 🔗

Nah – he is just an obvious Covid19 risk, one can see it a mile off!

39709 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #1418 of 1687 🔗

However, what is the likelihood of them actually allowing this, not mandating vaccines and not introducing a covipass or immunity passport?

39801 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1419 of 1687 🔗

Correction: “We used to be allowed to decide on our proximity to other individuals. We used to be allowed to decide on the intensity of out social engagement.”

39700 duncanpt, replying to duncanpt, 14, #1420 of 1687 🔗

I was particularly struck by this paragraph from the doctor quoted in the JB Handley blog mentioned above (‘LOCKDOWN LUNACY 2.0: Second wave? Not even close‘):

“COVID-19 is NOT in the atmosphere around us; it resides in the respiratory tracts of infected individuals and can only be transmitted to others by sick, infected persons after prolonged contact with others”

If only the UK Government would read and understand that, and forcefully put it out in its messaging to the public (God, how I hate that neologism) maybe we could escape this mess before it gets any more bizarre. Please, please…

Unfortunately I’ve just had a reply from my MP to a rant I sent in about how poor the Govt response has been. His reply: straight down the Govt line: Govt has done a great job, spent lots of money and uses the world’s best scientists. No recognition at all of mistakes and how they have prolonged the crisis just so they don’t have to admit mistakes. I’d already warned him he’d have to work for my vote next time. At this point he has no chance whatsoever. Clearly the Government and MPs still think there is an ongoing problem.

39741 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to duncanpt, 1, #1421 of 1687 🔗

Writing to your MP is a waste of time. Try your local councillors instead.

39701 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1422 of 1687 🔗

I think we knew this anyway, but The Telegaph has this report:

Many people likely to have ‘background level’ of protection

Large numbers of the population may have natural immunity against coronavirus even if they have never been infected, scientists believe.

Sir John Bell, Regius Professor of Medicine at Oxford University, who is leading an Oxford team to develop a vaccine, said there was likely to be a “background level” of protection for a “significant number of people”.

Recent studies have suggested the immune system can be primed by other coronaviruses, such as the common cold, giving the body a head start in fighting off Covid-19.

Full story here (paywall):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/01/significant-number-people-may-have-natural-immunity-coronavirus/

39704 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1423 of 1687 🔗

While this is interesting it is more likely that we are seeing people looking for evidence to fit their theory rather than the other way round.

Maybe the answer is that Covid-19 was a real nothing burger and possibly only infected very very few people. Because of a whole chain of assumptions and then the response of healthcare to those assumptions, coupled with how data is reported and deaths attributed, we have a large dose of confirmation bias.

Once you have that you look for ways to explain discrepancies against your bias, not reality

39706 ▶▶▶ Mario, replying to mhcp, 9, #1424 of 1687 🔗

The null hypothesis always was: it’s just a normal flu virus. Large level of background immunity means that similar viruses have infected people in the past. So COVID-19 is not really new.

A priori, the null hypothesis is the one with the high probability, because the truly novel virus is the very rare occurrence. And this virus is considered ‘novel’ simply because they didn’t have it in the database.

39710 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Mario, 2, #1425 of 1687 🔗

Indeed Mario. You would think a lot more of the so-called experts would trust in that

39719 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mhcp, 3, #1426 of 1687 🔗

Depends who’s paying for their trust.

39764 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mario, 2, #1427 of 1687 🔗

There’s a family tree of coronaviruses here:

comment image

linked from here: https://www.ecohealthalliance.org/2020/01/phylogenetic-analysis-shows-novel-wuhan-coronavirus-clusters-with-sars

It’s novel in the sense that it recently jumped from bats from humans. But as you can see from the tree, this phenomenon is nothing new. It’s one of those things that happens from time to time and results in a pandemic and probably usually also some excess deaths.

That tree is no doubt very incomplete but I still think SARS2 is new or there wouldn’t be a pandemic of it. But I’m not surprised if there is cross-immunity from similar viruses and there is some actual evidence of this.

39944 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mario, replying to guy153, #1428 of 1687 🔗

By the looks of it it’s about as much of a pandemic as a regular seasonal flu. COVID-19 is “new” in the sense that it is a mutation of something that’s been around for a while. That’s what the background immunity proves.

40008 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mario, #1429 of 1687 🔗

Yes it is of course related to lots of other viruses and not completely new. But it’s kind of new to us by being a recent crossover from bats as opposed to a mutation of a virus that was already infecting humans.

40142 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mario, replying to guy153, #1430 of 1687 🔗

How do you know it came from a bat? If you follow that lead you do not find anything like a proof that this is what happened.

What you find is a lot of speculation and jumping at conclusions. Almost everything about this virus is shrowded in a lot of uncertainty. They had this pandemic fighting machinery ready to go to war and went along with the first thing to come around. They were so excited that they didn’t bother to do research properly.

40436 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mario, #1431 of 1687 🔗

It’s not cast-iron proof, nothing is in this field, but you can compare its genome to that of other viruses and see how much it has in common.

SARS2 has more in common with certain bat viruses than it does with any other human viruses. You can actually download all the genomes yourself and have a look. I think this is fairly convincing evidence.

It might have come from a bat via a lab and even via some gain of function research. There is not strong evidence either way.

Yes I agree a lot of people who had been preparing for a pandemic were pretty stoked when it came along and this no doubt inflamed the situation considerably.

39740 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mhcp, 2, #1432 of 1687 🔗

It was definitely a nothing burger.

39708 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1433 of 1687 🔗

This should make it harder to make any vaccine mandatory, shouldn’t it?

39716 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1434 of 1687 🔗

Logic would suggest so but they seem to be playing the unnatural herd immunity card.

39720 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, #1435 of 1687 🔗

I don’t follow?

39739 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, #1436 of 1687 🔗

Maybe John Bell is admitting defeat but I think the bit I quoted in italics is subject to interpretation depending on your agenda, that’s all.

39776 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, #1437 of 1687 🔗

lol, I just don’t understand your comment. “unnatural herd immunity”?

39725 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Carrie, 1, #1438 of 1687 🔗

Well, it should , but with this government?

39727 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to IanE, 1, #1439 of 1687 🔗

My worry is that this could lead to enforced antibody/immunity tests, used as a way to gather the DNA of entire populations, but under the guise of seeing if you can be exempted from the vaccine (because they know it will be hard to mandate). They could then potentially use this info to develop a new virus to which people do not have immunity.. or at the very least for further population control.

39768 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Carrie, #1440 of 1687 🔗

I think you could probably quite easily develop new viruses that people didn’t have immunity to these days if you wanted to. You wouldn’t need their DNA (and it wouldn’t help much) although samples of their T-cells might help a bit.

39882 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, #1441 of 1687 🔗

I think it’s more likely they just wanna collect DNA for biometric ID purposes.
It’s been on the cards for twenty years, there’s people who would love another opprtunity to bring that shit in (this situation is perfect excuse no?)

39712 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1442 of 1687 🔗

So a virus developer is basically saying that most people apready have immunity (which is obvious from the stats) through their T cells.
Does he then imply they’re going to go ahead with the vaccine anyway?
The vaccine being developed by Oxford University has been found not only to stimulate antibodies but also to boost T-cell response. But many more people may already have some protection, suggesting herd immunity will be easier and quicker to establish, the research suggests.

39717 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1443 of 1687 🔗

Vaccines are supposed to stimulate an immune response. That’s how they are meant to work!

You wouldn’t need a vaccine if you are already immune.

39737 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 1, #1444 of 1687 🔗

Tell that to the vaccinators!

39785 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, #1445 of 1687 🔗

It’s the government who make the decisions.

39726 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1446 of 1687 🔗

Karolinska institutet are saying the same thing from their research here..

39751 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Carrie, #1447 of 1687 🔗

Do you have the link?

39703 Major Panic, 6, #1450 of 1687 🔗

I became aware of an irritating background noise, turns out it was the weee kranky with todays rules. Before i turned over I think she said that beer gardens can open but 2m rule still applies – sounds nice – always sunny and warm in Scotland

39705 Tom Blackburn, 2, #1451 of 1687 🔗

Has Toby had Rage Against the Machine’s ‘Bullet in the Head’ as theme tune yet? The lyrics are ridiculously prescient

39707 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1452 of 1687 🔗

Apologies if posted already but interesting from Off Guardian about inflated care home figures in US:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/30/us-gov-website-falsely-inflating-care-home-covid-deaths/

39715 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sarigan, 12, #1453 of 1687 🔗

Well that would seem to be the end of our summer holiday in the Highlands.

So until the 9th July masks are not necessary but come the glorious 10th, the virus will be doing it worst so better get everyone muzzled.

39755 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Dave #KBF, 10, #1454 of 1687 🔗

Sorry edited the post as saw someone had already mentioned the new measures in Scotland so replies may seem random but yes the Covid little tike is very selective:

40015 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, #1455 of 1687 🔗

Like it!

39718 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Sarigan, 9, #1456 of 1687 🔗

Someone needs to call a good exorcist to get rid of the Scottish witch!

And, who said Scotland was the Land of the Brave?

39867 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to IanE, #1457 of 1687 🔗

When I mentioned Nicola Sturgeon’s high heels to a Scottish friend – I mean, how can you take seriously a politician who feels so insecure she makes herself six inches taller and can barely stagger to the door – she stopped me right there. Nicola Sturgeon is her hero – won’t hear a word against her. It gets you down.

39978 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jane in France, #1458 of 1687 🔗

Ha! I have similar friend who is fully culted too. Usually,as you say, it gets you down. But not today! They could see my logic was sound, my rage exceptional.

Today nicola wasn’t doing “really well”, or any other such come back. Today nicola has kept all her cult fans in danger throughout the peak of the pandemic and only now making masks mandatory. Today my friend felt vulnerable and separated from the old boot.

39721 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 13, #1459 of 1687 🔗

Well no one will want to visit Scotland now!

39724 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 1, #1460 of 1687 🔗

It’ll keep the sassenachs away for sure !

39877 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, #1461 of 1687 🔗

Used to go a lot.
Won’t be going again.

39983 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 1, #1462 of 1687 🔗

Hills will be there long after this politick has washed away.

40020 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, #1463 of 1687 🔗

You console me.
The view from Carter Bar. Scott’s view. The Forth bridges. The profile of Skye. Walking up Goat Fell on Arran. The marvellous geology of the North West… what is a poisonous little witch in Edinburgh compared with all that?
I will wait until she bites herself and drops dead writhing in coils.

39815 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1464 of 1687 🔗

Falsely inflating is happening here in the UK too. The change that the CQC made to the reporting of Care Home death on the 10th April significantly changed the numbers that were reported, before this date there was hardly any deaths in Care Home. They made a change to the online form for death registrations so as to falsely classify these deaths as COVID-19, and we know that people who had died had not been tested and not even been visited by a doctors when they died, the closest they’d get to a doctor would maybe be a Facetime call on a iPad.

39713 Basics, replying to Basics, 22, #1465 of 1687 🔗

The highly incompetent Scottish administration have declared facecoverings to be mandatory in all shops.

I say incompetence since they have left their country to be mask less throughout the peak of the of c19.

By their own rules they are incompetent. They cite no evidence as reason for the arbitrary rule.

39722 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1466 of 1687 🔗

Are there the same exemptions as in England?

39723 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1467 of 1687 🔗

Fucking Aye – tourism.

39729 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 25, #1468 of 1687 🔗

FFS! It’s bloody unbelievable. Scotland yesterday – eight new cases and one death. If muzzling people was any use whatsoever surely you’d do it at the start of an epidemic, not when it’s over. Strugeon is insane.

39758 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 10, #1469 of 1687 🔗

I’m not wearing a mask for anyone. Come to think of it where can I buy a gimp mask

39770 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #1470 of 1687 🔗

From 10 July, face masks would be mandatory in all Scotland’s shops, she added, following similar requirements (which anecdotal evidence suggests has been frequently ignored by passengers) on public transport and in taxis.

Sturgeon said there would be no immediate cuts in the 2 metre physical distancing rules to 1 metre or 1.5 metres, because her government’s scientific advice showed the risks of transmitting Covid-19 were too high. That would be eased soon, with customers warned they were entering a 1-metre zone.

From the Guardian live section.

39775 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1471 of 1687 🔗

What’s special about the 10th July, why is it more dangerous a week tomorrow? Fuckwiterry at it’s best

39787 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to stefarm, 4, #1472 of 1687 🔗

Just like the little holiday Coroni took between the 5th and 15th June in England when Handjob made his announcement about mandatory face-nappies on PT 10 days before it came into force!

BTW, the buses round here are running around nearly empty. I wonder how long they will be able to keep going at all.

39790 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #1473 of 1687 🔗

How can they be so unbelievably stupid? I mean, I’m speechless. The virus is now more dangerous than it was at its peak? Which was fucking April 8th or thereabouts. I thought ‘peak’ meant at the top of things. I am so speechless I can’t string words together. This is complete and utter abuse.

39968 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, #1474 of 1687 🔗

Three late 20s uni graduate types in park today. Asked by me for their opinion about the 10th Mask. “Well if it helps others, and my sister’s a doctor, and I believe in it.” I asked had they read up about masks, “yes, yes we should use them.”

39852 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1475 of 1687 🔗

Where does Nicola Sturgeon get her scientific advice? Is it from that wet-looking chap who is often on the Jane Godley videos with her?

39866 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jane in France, #1476 of 1687 🔗

Mostly from the dreaded Devi Sridhar I suspect.

39869 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Jane in France, 1, #1477 of 1687 🔗

Tracey Ullman. Though Tracey was taking the piss and Sturgeon didn’t notice.

39955 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, #1478 of 1687 🔗

Buses run at 80% mask free passengers. Bus drivers have been publicly (in local rag) told not to give a shit or else expect sore jaw as our butcher put it.

39799 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 3, #1479 of 1687 🔗
39845 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnB, 1, #1480 of 1687 🔗

Ah yes, Peter Hitchens: good likeness!

39743 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1481 of 1687 🔗

The only MSM coverage I can find….

The Guardian: High court hears legal challenge to England’s lockdown restrictions.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/02/high-court-hears-legal-challenge-to-englands-lockdown-restrictions

39748 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1482 of 1687 🔗

No, no, that can’t be right; the BBC will of course be all over this!

39773 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to IanE, 8, #1483 of 1687 🔗

I sent a complaint to the BBC when the case was first launched, that they showed bias by not reporting it. I got a boilerplate response listing the criteria they use for deciding what to report on, which was useful as it enabled me to point out that this case ticked all those boxes in spades. I’m still waiting for the follow up response to that, and many other complaints. Like lots of other large organisations they say they are receiving a higher than usual number of issues currently, and are also short of staff because of covid-19 – funny as my company has had almost zero sick days lost since this started.

They are despicable.

39783 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, 3, #1484 of 1687 🔗

In my experience it’s not worth even bothering to complain to the BBC. They make you jump through many hoops to get to anyone who can actually do anything. Six months down the line …

39794 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 2, #1485 of 1687 🔗

Possibly a waste of energy, yes, but I feel it my duty to remind them that someone is paying attention.

39800 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Julian, 1, #1486 of 1687 🔗

Yes, someone has to read the email.

39788 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, 3, #1487 of 1687 🔗

I had cause to phone my bank yesterday. They said there was much more traffic than usual ‘due to corona virus’. Really? Is one of the symptoms worrying about your finances? Or do they mean the cunning virus has fouled up the one-way system in the City of London?

39792 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 6, #1488 of 1687 🔗

If there were any large organisations that were NOT doing this nonsense, I would switch my business to them, but they all are. Sometimes I get brilliant service, sometimes rubbish – depends on the person you get on the other end of the line. But the people running these businesses need their ears boxing.

Would be lovely to head for the hills and go off grid. I want a new country!

39849 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Julian, 1, #1489 of 1687 🔗

me too!

39863 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #1490 of 1687 🔗

Be careful what you wish for!

39870 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, #1491 of 1687 🔗

I guess here is still better than a lot of places, but we’ve fallen a long way down the league table in the last few months

39918 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Julian, 1, #1492 of 1687 🔗

Well done for complaining. I think the complaints procedure is quite labouious and requires repeated responses to get the complaint to someone with anything to do with programme making. Well done for the efforts!
One of these days I will look into cancelling my licence. I don’t watch it. I used to love the BBC but they make hardly any programmes that I enjoy.

39769 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1493 of 1687 🔗

Thanks.

39760 Biker, replying to Biker, 33, #1494 of 1687 🔗

Looks like i’m gonna be getting in trouble, i won’t wear a mask, i’l still go to the shops, they can phone the police on me, i’ll be arrested and i’ll still not wear a mask. In the end they’ll have to jail me, i won’t wear mask in jail and when they let me out i still won’t wear a mask. Fuck Sturgeon the poison dumbass fucking barren dwarf the she is

39766 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Biker, 2, #1495 of 1687 🔗

Cough etiquette?!
Is that Mad Nic’s term for mandatory mask wearing, or just a reminder to cover your mouth when you cough?

39767 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Biker, 1, #1496 of 1687 🔗

Hear, hear, maybe we can meet and go shopping together

39778 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Biker, #1497 of 1687 🔗

Scotland has a bit of a history with coercive clothing:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Gough
Do you know the Naked Rambler, by any chance?

39779 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bruno, #1498 of 1687 🔗

.

39780 ▶▶ John P, replying to Biker, 5, #1499 of 1687 🔗

I completely agree with your decision, but the abuse at the end of your comment is uncalled for.

39786 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to John P, 1, #1500 of 1687 🔗

is it pal? i find your comments dull as shit and you bore me to death

39793 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to John P, 8, #1501 of 1687 🔗

I don’t know. Sturgeon’s being pretty abusive. Bullying is abuse. Tyranny is abuse.

39796 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 1, #1502 of 1687 🔗

Hope you’re not getting Stockholm Syndrome, John ?

39841 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to John P, 4, #1503 of 1687 🔗

Quite so – Biker was much too gentle in his comments.

39896 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to John P, 2, #1504 of 1687 🔗

Do you live in Scotland? Is it any of your business what Biker says about Sturgeon? Didn’t realise we had Language Champions in the comments section.

39810 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Biker, 8, #1505 of 1687 🔗

Well said Biker. I’ve just read of the latest piece of nonsense from She Who Must Be Obeyed and used a lengthy lust of expletives.
We are turning into a dictatorship just when Calamitous Covid is on its way out.
How much more of this steady, ill conceived encroachment on normal life will we have to endure?
Cops are never around in my small town and which law will be invoked ,should a bare faced heretic be rounded up in Poundland?
More and more shops ate closing here; many were already struggling before the madness took hold, but now they’re done for.

39811 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, #1506 of 1687 🔗

Should read list, not lust!!

39858 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 1, #1507 of 1687 🔗

I thought a lust of expletives portrayed powerful emotion rather effectively.

39859 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1508 of 1687 🔗

Thank you! A Freudian moment brought on by rage.

39949 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 1, #1509 of 1687 🔗

I think there’s room for a nicola ‘can’t put lip stick on a gorilla’ sturgeon mask to be worn.

39874 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 2, #1510 of 1687 🔗

Why are you saying such kind things about the Sturgeon, Biker?
I wish you the very best in your resistance. zGo to it. God bless.

39761 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #1511 of 1687 🔗

Stanley Johnson, the prime minister’s father, has jetted off to Greece.

39774 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #1512 of 1687 🔗

Good for him. I see he circumvented some stupid rule or other. Nice one.

39782 ▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #1513 of 1687 🔗

In Boris’ new Air Farce One?

39795 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #1514 of 1687 🔗

Love it. I remember shortly before lockdown started, when they were only advising people to avoid pubs and restaurants, he made some comment along the lines of “If I want to go to the bloody pub I bloody well will!”

39851 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, #1515 of 1687 🔗

That’s great! Undermines Boris a bit more 🙂

39908 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Steve Hayes, #1516 of 1687 🔗

I’m not sure that’s actually illegal? I’ve looked into this – I need to get back to Greece too – and although it would mean travelling against Foreign Office advice, which means your insurance isn’t valid and if you get stuck abroad they won’t bring you home – you can still travel. It’s one of these guideline thingies! I could get on a plane tomorrow to somewhere like Amsterdam or Frankfurt and from there to Athens, and then on to one of the Greek islands. We still have freedom of travel around the EU during the withdrawal period. Though if he’d had waited until Monday it might have looked better for Boris!

39948 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #1517 of 1687 🔗

He clearly doesn’t give a toss about Boris. He’s a selfish git. No wonder his son is such an arse.

39771 Wickwar Bob, 3, #1518 of 1687 🔗

Just found this on the libraries page of the local council as a select few libraries in the area prepare to open on 4th July:

“To ensure the safety of library customers and staff, only limited services will be available until social distancing restrictions are relaxed or removed and customers will not be able to enter the library to browse and borrow, to read or study or to relax and meet friends.”

Which begs the question – what the hell can you do? Stand in a socially-distanced space and admire the volumes from a safe distance? Read a book by osmosis?

Also read elswhere that some libraries will be using “space marshalls” to ensure people follow social distancing rules. Because as we all know, we can’t be trusted to work these rules out for ourselves, as ridiculous as they are. And why use such a militaristic term?

As a lonely remote worker, I often use my local city library, which also doubles up as the university library, as a work space (not to mention the cafes round about which have also been closed). Not only is it a great educational and social resource, it gets me out about among other human beings instead of festering at home all day in my PJs, which is what I’ve basically been doing for the last three months.

I’m really beginning to despair. I’m fortunate I suppose that my work has been unaffected by this fiasco so far. But what’s the point of earning a living if you can’t use it to actually live? By which I mean do all the things that make life worthwhile, no matter how small they may be?

Some say that the tide is turning, that more people will eventually see how unecessary and asinine these ongoing restrictions are and either ignore them or protest against them. I’m afraid I don’t see it that way. The brainwash job has been too effective. All of my friends and family (save one sceptical brother-in-law) have swallowed this, no matter how much logic I present them. Before we know it, autumn will be upon us and seasonal bugs will be on the rise (it remains to be seen if COVID is among them). Will the paranoid majority will be begging for another lockdown?

Sorry to sound so pessimistic. I really hope I’m wrong.

Anyway, I went on a bit of tangent there. I’ve been lurking on this site since the beginning, and I don’t tend to comment BTL. It’s getting harder and harder to stay silent though.

Thank god for this website is all I can say. I honestly would have struggled to cope without it I think. I owe you a huge debt of gratitude, Toby.

39772 philh, #1519 of 1687 🔗

What Dom got wrong. My latest on the mistake of lockdown https://medium.com/@philhylandwriter/what-dom-got-wrong-80075d5ae34f

39806 Tony Rattray, replying to Tony Rattray, 8, #1520 of 1687 🔗

PRACTICAL GUIDANCE TO MANDATORY FACE MASKS IN SCOTTISH SHOP

I will not be wearing a mask in the shops as has been the case for the last 3 months due to the weak evidence of their effectiveness so long as I continue to use common sense with distancing.

Sturgeon has said shop staff would not be expected to enforce the rule, with the police instead mandated to issue fixed penalty notices to people not wearing face coverings.

She accepted that this may not be an easy rule to police, saying officers would act “very proportionately and sensitively”.

So if any member of staff challenges you, inform them of this and state that they should not be refusing service, rather their only proportionate option is to call the police. If they still refuse to serve you, simply leave the items/s you have purchased at the payment counter and go elsewhere, or return at a later date with a “bank robber balaclava” (with only eyes uncovered!) and use as and when required!

39819 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Tony Rattray, 9, #1521 of 1687 🔗

And she says scarves will do! You couldn’t make this up and England will not be masked up.
This makes The Mad Hatter’s Tea Party seem sane.
I see grubby scarves, bank robber black and Boden style coverings here, along with the more ambitious plastic affairs with vents.
Perhaps a head to toe bee keeper’s outfit would make the grade.

39847 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 4, #1522 of 1687 🔗

Burqas all round – probably great for shoplifting too.
Would serve the little hitler shops right.

39909 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Cheezilla, #1523 of 1687 🔗

I did wonder about buying a burkha a few weeks ago but they are really expensive!

39939 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1524 of 1687 🔗

Shops here are experiencing high levels of shoplifting. The shop keepers have told me directly attributable to mask wearing.