2020-07-03

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/03/latest-news-66/
Published2020-07-03T20:11:59
Last updated2020-07-03T21:18:58
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:03
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41031 HawkAnalyst, 3, #1 of 729 🔗

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cricket-is-not-getting-fair-treatment-from-prime-minister-boris-johnson-jqzr9cnf8

Cricket is not getting fair treatment from prime minister Boris Johnson | Sport | The Times

41044 ▶▶ Chas, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #3 of 729 🔗

Everybody has to die someday!

41121 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Chas, 1, #4 of 729 🔗

as Terry Pratchett once wrote “Death is stable”

41034 HawkAnalyst, 1, #5 of 729 🔗
41036 Threepartslogan, replying to Threepartslogan, 9, #6 of 729 🔗

Carl Vernon’s latest video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWilbL3hKxM

You couldn’t make it up!

41273 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Threepartslogan, 2, #7 of 729 🔗

Saw that and that’s why I bought a hair cutting kit for myself and Mr Bart – the boycott will save us a whole load of money.

41374 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Threepartslogan, 1, #8 of 729 🔗

The problem is that, while I’m willing to carry on looking like a wild woman, many people are desperate enough to put up with that nonsense so they can get tidied up.

The sad thing is that their haircut should improve their self-esteem but subjecting themselves to that nonsense just makes a mockery of them.

41037 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 15, #9 of 729 🔗

Pillar 2 data includes people who’ve been tested more than once – often because they have to re-test before they’re allowed back to work.

So… there’s a spike in number of cases cause people just want to get back to work? That’s just tragic.

41043 ▶▶ Chas, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #10 of 729 🔗

Makes you want to cry.

41376 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Chas, 1, #11 of 729 🔗

Or hit someone …..

41039 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 50, #12 of 729 🔗

I have said it before: What’s going on has gone beyond incompetence. You cannot explain the state of things by saying that the people in charge ar bumbling idiots. That would mean that absolutely every single person that has a say or has the ear of someone that has a say is a bumbling idiot. That’s just not possible. This looks more and more like a deliberate act of sabotaging the West.

41195 ▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 7, #13 of 729 🔗

Absolutely. And while I, like most here, have benefited from Toby’s website, he does pull his punches where his chums in government are concerned.

41209 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #14 of 729 🔗

Is it global incompetence?

41214 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 16, #15 of 729 🔗

100%. I am completely behind this is deliberate destabilising of the world.

It’s irrelevant whether they knew the virus was coming or not, another one could have been used to cause equal panic.

This response fits closely to sustainablity goals they have long worked for. The NHS Reset, The Great Reset, the cronona emergency legislation 250 pages in UK usually emergency bills are 1 page. In the USA the emergency bill is 1000 pages or more – it was ready before it was needed. We’ve seen that legal prep before in history.

To say nothing of the highly lacking scientific amd health service reactions.

41304 ▶▶ Ten, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 7, #16 of 729 🔗

The Problem for me is incompetence followed by their commitment to covering up their incompetence. The government has an addiction to being right and is prepared to put our life’s (All lives) on hold to cover their asses at any cost to protecting their precious reputations, but like all friends that know an addict we cant move on until they admit they have a problem.

41332 ▶▶ H K, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 8, #17 of 729 🔗

I agree Criti.
There comes a point where you have to step back and look at the situation, seeing that people (especially journalists and medical experts) who are seriously challenging the official narrative with evidence being removed from social media and suspended by their medical board to see that the information is being deliberately censored.
Many people now agree that the WHO are as clean and trustworthy as FIFA or the IOC and the same people with financial interests are linked to the Government’s reactions/policies and stand to benefit greatly.
I see far more journalistic integrity form independent youtube commentators than I do from the mainstream media.
Is everyone involved in a conspiracy? No, but it is not all a cockup either! Some people involved know exactly what they are doing, while others genuinely are going along putting great faith in the ‘experts’

41536 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to H K, 5, #18 of 729 🔗

My view is still that that the whole wretched mess is an unholy combination of cock-up and “perfect storm” of political/media/social factors, combined with the Government and their “experts” trying to stay afloat and avoid blame for as long as they can. Any hint of a U-turn or admission that they made the wrong decisions, and the media and Opposition will start making things very nasty for them (currently their main angle of attack still seems to be “should have locked down earlier”), and the longer they keep it going the worse this will be. The Leicester farce seems to indicate that they’ve decided to stick with the “lockdown narrative” to the end.

I really doubt it’s a conspiracy as all of the data and statistics are publicly available , here and in many other countries, often from official sources (as in Toby’s recent article on the facts behind the US “second spike”, and the PHE data in Dr.Q’s Leicester article). And the number of sceptical voices, often qualified ones, in the media seems to be steadily increasing, and not just on fringe/non MSM sources (see the multiple interviews on the BBC’s World at One on Thursday).

Nonetheless the public perception and overall media narrative don’t seem to have changed much since 3 months ago. See the reference on today’s update to 80% of people polled supporting further local lockdowns. (Having said that, polls like this seem to target a more fearful and pro-lockdown demographic than the wider population)

41375 ▶▶ Johnny Buoy, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #19 of 729 🔗

Well said Cristi.
It definitely smacks of a pre-planned set of actions that has been set up and running suspiciously fast, although now they seem to be improvising to try and maufacture a 2nd wave/lockdown. Then will come ‘we have a vaccine’. (Start a Bill Gates thread anyone?)
I don’t understand how the government has the power to make such illegal legislation within one or two days yet the only recourse is a judicial review which may not be heard until after the damage is irreversible? Does no-one have the power or leverage to intervene?

41541 ▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 10, #20 of 729 🔗

It is incompetence, not some (secret) plan. How can I say this so sure? Well, if you have worked in government (like I did for years) and/or have been politically active (again, yes, when younger) you will have seen the utter and sheer incompetence which is so utterly common/normal among this civil servants and politicians.

If you haven’t worked in government then whatever it is I will tell you I have seen, you will simply not believe it because you just can’t imagine people being that stupid in such positions of power. Not evil things, just unbelievably stupid things. I have seen dozens of things go wrong, again and again and again, often for the very same reason, created by the same type of people. These people don’t want to fuck up, they just do. I saw it happening on small and large scales. At one point “something” (won’t give details) went wrong for 150+ million EUR, although until this day this organization lies by saying it was “only” 80 million EUR. (The truth about that is already out here and there, but even as liars they are incompetent.) A few years later the same thing happened. Nothing learned at all. It is not their problem because it is not their money.

Every time a new consultant came in at HQ and I had to show this person what was what for a few months, it always started with disbelieve. It could not be as bad as I tried to explain, that was simply not true because it just wasn’t possible. The answer would always be “yes, but”. After a month or so, when they had seen this happening themselves, they started to believe it, but even then often didn’t want to believe it (because it would make them too cynical or depressed or both). Later still, they would know. The good ones among those rarely came back, the incompetent onces had found their new employer…

If you don’t (want to) believe the incompetence story, let me turn this one around. Name me one (ONE, just one) politician or civil servant who you think is so unbelievably competent he/she can lead a worldwide campaign to trick all those governments and all those people into believing the same thing, without accidentally leaving any serious proof or something like that lying around? I am not talking about some silly conspiracy theory in which everything is connected to everything else but every other theory is oddly enough different (yet they are always 100% sure about their “the truth”). No, I mean proper competence to pull off such a trick. (No shape shifting lizards please! And no, not Gates, he only did part of DOS and Windows, not exactly brilliance if you ask me.) And next give me the group around that person which would still have to be just as competent, because if they foul up, it all still goes belly up. That’s the level of competence needed. I don’t see that happening anywhere. It may feel like it, but just try to find that superhuman level of intelligence…

You see, that’s the other reason why I don’t believe this was some plan: firstly, I seen the levels of stupidity in governmental circles (which does correspond to the levels of stupidity we see today in relationship to COVID-19). That means I know they would never ever be able to pull this off, simply because they can’t even pull off anything at all even if they actually do (often MUST) have to do it! But secondly, the level of competence needed by anyone to pull this off is way beyond what is humanly feasible.

I know that feeling, the feeling of “it can’t be coincidental, it must be some kind of plan/purpose”, but that was the same all those consultants had. It just feels too ridiculous to be so stupid, but it is. Read for instance prof. Cipolla and his text on stupidity. (It is funny, that alone makes it worthwhile.)

(Sorry about the length, I got a bit carried away just thinking about all those incompentent idiots I have seen. Not that I am better, but doing less usually also means destroying less…)

41040 annie, replying to annie, 32, #21 of 729 🔗

So the medical profession has been not just muzzled, but gagged?
Come the Coronaberg Trials, there’s going to be one hell of a cloud of witnesses.

41382 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 7, #22 of 729 🔗

Dr Q points out that EVERY DAY they are reminded not to talk to journalists or on social media. That’s blatant censorship and all those enforcing it must be aware of that.

41465 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #23 of 729 🔗

Rough as it is Dr Q found a way.

Others should and must too. If they have a back bone. It’s about personal courage, to risk your families well-being against a harmful censor. UK 2020 people of the internet.

I dare to say Dr Q has got life long respect from those that matter.

There’s fibre in Dr Q, who else?

41542 ▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #24 of 729 🔗

I thought the doctors were supposed to be the heroes.
Very fishy.

41748 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #25 of 729 🔗

Strange. I thought there was a whistleblower’s charter. Only allowed if it is politically correct, it seems.

41041 Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 36, #26 of 729 🔗

It’s both cock-up and conspiracy. Conspiracy in a pathetic and doomed attempt to cover up the cock-up. Even the bed-wetters must twig eventually.

41083 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 6, #27 of 729 🔗

Exactly it’s a cockup and then a coverup.

41042 Chas, 56, #28 of 729 🔗

I have just read Dr Q’s report and I think that I have the solution in a new form of lockdown. Let’s lockdown every politician, member of PHE. NHS management, alleged scientist and any other individuals that endanger our society. We will enforce a severe lock down, no visitors, groceries only delivered if they can get a delivery slot, they have to wear masks 24/7. Lets have an initial lockdown for say 2 years. If we can do without these oxygen thieves for that long we can do without them forever.

41045 Threepartslogan, replying to Threepartslogan, 27, #29 of 729 🔗

Latest from Simon Dolan…

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1279109733694275586

Our legal team will be analysing the new Regs over the weekend. We will come back on Monday with full details as to what restrictions remain.

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1279109455326654465

BREAKING NEWS After our day in Court yesterday,the Govt have scrapped the existing Regs and tonight replaced them with much less restrictive ones. However, they are not fully scrapped and the threat of reimposition remains so we continue to fight for full Judicial Review

41386 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Threepartslogan, 2, #30 of 729 🔗

It will be interesting to discover what the new regs are. I wonder if the MSM will be informed about them.

41046 Paul B, replying to Paul B, 4, #31 of 729 🔗

Seems the conformity test is rolling out in the US and Scotland I believe… Found this interesting https://youtube.com/watch?v=jmEt0UjrnfQ&feature=emb_logo – low tech, effective and scary!

41215 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Paul B, 3, #32 of 729 🔗

A giod kink. If your mainstream media cared about you they would do a similar 02 test. Why have’t msm people like dr hilary jones not done such a test – is he really as savage as he looks? Happy to go along with the fearing of viewers.

Quite clearly there is a public interest to show how safe masks and face coverings are. File under this is deliberate.

41488 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #33 of 729 🔗

… good link.
I admit, I lower the tone, ok

41395 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul B, 1, #34 of 729 🔗

That’s a great video. Shows the arguments very clearly.

41048 John P, replying to John P, 24, #35 of 729 🔗

Thanks for publishing the piece from a doctor in Leicester, Toby!

I have just had an e-mail from the mayor of Leicester, Sir Peter Soulsby who I contacted earlier this week.

I have taken the opportunity to reply and send him a link to the full article.

41052 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 7, #36 of 729 🔗

Well done on that John. His hand was forced – was he shafted by his own side?

41054 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #37 of 729 🔗

Was he shafted? I think he was, I’m fairly sure he’s a closet sceptic. He got into trouble for visiting his girlfrield’s house early on in the lockdown.

I just logged into my e-mail account to e-mail my mother and sisters with a link, and there was the mayor’s e-mail. Perfect timing!

41059 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 14, #38 of 729 🔗

Yes, that’s what I thought. I hope this madness stops now for the people of Leicester. I was very suspicious that the daily stats were so late on Thursday, and then when they were uploaded at around 11pm, bingo, 10% rebasing of the number of cumulative positive tests, and more than a third lower on the daily total, continuing lower today. These lot know what they are doing.

41077 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #39 of 729 🔗

I’m sure the Leicester ‘spike’ and talk of lockdown was to try and enhance the government’s case at Simon Dolan’s hearing..

41398 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, #40 of 729 🔗

The people who should be backing him are shafting him bigtime.

41257 ▶▶▶ grammarschoolman, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #41 of 729 🔗

Yes, by Claudia Webbe, the (rather dense) local MP.

41063 ▶▶ Toby Young, replying to John P, 13, #42 of 729 🔗

Great. He seems like a good egg. Bullied into complying with a ludicrous edict.

41072 ▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Toby Young, #43 of 729 🔗

If the good man resigned his mayorship in protest against this utter scandal, I wonder how quick the BBC would be to run with the story…

41051 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 6, #44 of 729 🔗

Reading that Simon Dolan states that the regulations have changed & the Leicester lockdown is not law but can’t find any details. Anyone help?

41060 ▶▶ John P, replying to smileymiley, 7, #45 of 729 🔗

Simon has said he will send details about the relaxed rules later on.

Regarding Leicester, my understanding is that there have been no new laws passed and I note from the Oadby and Wigston Borough Council website that they are referring to the tightening of “guidelines”, – not laws!

“Oadby and Wigston” is outside the Leicester City boundary, but has been included in the local lockdown, as have a number of satellite towns.

There were rumours that laws were going to be passed for Leicester today, but they clearly have not done anything. Perhaps Simon’s legal challenge has put them off.

41065 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, 1, #47 of 729 🔗

Thank you, perhaps I stand corrected. Simon posted this morning regarding Leicester.

41067 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, #48 of 729 🔗

Applicable from 4th July.

41401 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #49 of 729 🔗

Is legislation the same as regulations?
Semantics suggest not but I don’t do legalese, which is a different language.

41507 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cheezilla, #50 of 729 🔗

Regulations (secondary legislation) lay down the law and are enforceable in the same way as other law in UK. ‘Guidance’ isn’t.
Anyone know why there are all the specific let outs for ‘elite sports persons'(!), their coaches, etc, or is this standard in similar Regs?

41675 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bruno, #51 of 729 🔗

The exemptions for elite athletes have been there for a good while now – a month at least, maybe 6 weeks. Presume mainly to facilitate professional sports (football) starting again, for financial reasons and to provide opium for the masses.

41062 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to John P, 3, #52 of 729 🔗

But the MSM are putting out that new laws with regards to fining £3000+ & police powers.

41218 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to smileymiley, 3, #53 of 729 🔗

Msm saying Liecester clothes factories have now been visited by police/natiinal crime agency officers.

41814 ▶▶▶▶ Jackthepippa, replying to smileymiley, #54 of 729 🔗

That’s the Max for repeated offences. But as usual implies otherwise.. fear leads to control ☹️

41053 mjr, replying to mjr, 14, #55 of 729 🔗

just watching Celebrity Gogglebox on C4. At around 35 minutes they show the celebs the news footage of the Bournemouth beach (the one that looks overcrowded due to telephoto lens forshortening.
Anyway, the adverse hysterical reaction of all the woke celebs on seeing this is something to behold… and explains why there is such a long way to go

41079 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to mjr, 7, #56 of 729 🔗

Mind you, given they are ‘Celebs’ they probably don’t have any or much grey matter!

DavidC

41116 ▶▶ Biker, replying to mjr, 15, #57 of 729 🔗

the idea that the Lockdown Skeptics haven’t taken into consideration the risks involved is patently nonsense. I’d bet that most here know far more about the risks, the science and the evidence than you do pal. You’re just a sad bed wetting lefty nonentity with nothing to say and prejudice and hatred for yourself buried deep in your weak black heart. It’s quite sad really, i feel for you. I mean i can’t imagine what it must be like to be so ignorant yet have such delusion in your intend reality. I’m sure there are pills for that. Oh and your little lefty troll act really is quite poor. Maybe it’s late and you’re tired but you’re gonna have to try harder than that, or alternatively you could just go back to twitter and suck some female penis, your mothers perhaps

41319 ▶▶▶ Louise, replying to Biker, 2, #58 of 729 🔗

Biker, is it fair to use so many good points and reference things like ‘consideration’. ‘evidence’ and ‘facts’ in this case? All GrantM understands is vague ideas, virtue signalling and the what seems to be the easiest route to salvation. You can’t surely expect critical thinking? If he wants to wear his face mask in the shower and spend his days clapping his hands red-raw whilst carpet burning his knees from all the kneeling, then we should let him. In his class everyone got the participation medal and so he subconsciously seeks little wins where he can find them.

41118 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to mjr, 6, #59 of 729 🔗

I repeat: WHY. ARE. YOU. STILL. HERE?

You are that person who goes to the party in order to complain about the party.

41119 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 3, #60 of 729 🔗

Or who doesn’t go to the party in order to stay in and troll websites lol

41125 ▶▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to Farinances, 2, #61 of 729 🔗

I think our very own troll is one of the chaps at 77 Brigade pulling an all nighter , must be getting time and a half or double bubble for the overtime hours.

41128 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Christopher, 1, #62 of 729 🔗

never heard of the 77 Brigade, sounds horrible, he’d be better off joining the Boys Brigade, maybe then he’d learn some self respect and discipline.

41794 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Watt, replying to Two-Six, #64 of 729 🔗

Hey Two-Six…That’s exactly where to point anyone who is looking for up to date AND truthful news broadcasts!

41135 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to Biker, 3, #65 of 729 🔗

Basically it’s the British army waging an information war and psyops against the British people.
Wonderful isn’t it ?

41217 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Christopher, #66 of 729 🔗

most of the British army are fat useless tossers or some real dumb fucks who can’t get a job and need to enlist. We should get rid of the military in the most part. No need for them at the levels we have. Just another government job the tax payer is forced to pay for. It’s sickening how much the government jobs like the military you’re expected to thank these morons for their service after they’d forcibly removed my money to pay for it.

41564 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Christopher, #67 of 729 🔗

He’snot bright enough. He’s just a fictional character who used to be in East Enders.

41122 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to mjr, #68 of 729 🔗

Muzzle top o’ the mornin’ to all the Irish Jews.

41212 ▶▶ steve, replying to mjr, 3, #69 of 729 🔗

You do have your Panties in a bunch don’t you 😆

41366 ▶▶ Bella, replying to mjr, 2, #70 of 729 🔗

Drunk again?

41620 ▶▶ watashi, replying to mjr, #71 of 729 🔗

what risks? there are none.

41055 It doesn't add up..., replying to It doesn't add up..., #72 of 729 🔗

Here is Coronavirus – the map movie, based on Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 data for England. Open in adjacent tabs of your browser, and flip between them to see how the epidemic progressed since the beginning of May. Charts are of weekly infection rates at week intervals: the date is the end date of the week. The list is in order to end June.

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/gx1II/1/
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/jsIvq/2/
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/LCbA5/1/
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/iL0yx/1/
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/ztVPL/1/
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/2uelL/1/
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/K94t6/1/
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/buGhn/1/
https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/S5Dmw/1/

Some other charts that may be useful:

Comparison of Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 overall data for England, showing the ramping up of Pillar 2 across April leading to many more infection reports.

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/d307t/2/

Cases by local authority over time (best viewed on a computer or large tablet in portrait orientation)

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/vFNru/1/

Map for Pillar 1 as at end June

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/B7qlJ/1/

Leicester doesn’t exactly stand out there.

41581 ▶▶ chris c, replying to It doesn't add up..., #73 of 729 🔗

Excellent stuff and thank you for all the hard work, I’ve been following you on Hector Drummond’s blog.

In the MSM nothing has changed much, they still think you are going to die if you go outside without a muzzle, yet where are you going to catch it from?

41056 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 68, #74 of 729 🔗

My heart bleeds for the people of Leicester.

Put yourself into the shoes of the hairdresser, pub landlord or restauranteur, spending money that you probably haven’t got on ridiculous safety features such as screens and signage, not forgetting the gallons of sanitiser and necessary hordes of PPE in order to be able to operate in the New Abnormal.

All of that preparation and expense to have the rug pulled from beneath your feet by a government seemingly intent on pressing on with its relentless campaign of social and economic vandalism. A government clearly using the city of Leicester as a warning to us, the stupid, grubby bovine throng.

I can almost hear Hancock’s voice as I type this, “don’t think for a moment that you’re free. We can take it all away, and cram you back into your homes whenever we wish to.” Now enjoy that overpriced pint, and keep your f*****g distance. ”

I will never forgive them for this.

41064 ▶▶ Chas, replying to Scotty87, 28, #75 of 729 🔗

Never, ever. At the next election we must get rid of ALL these useless politicians, civil servants and quangos. They are damaging to our health.

41066 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Scotty87, 30, #76 of 729 🔗

Boris’s ‘enjoy the summer’ today, and his tone as per what you say for Hancock, very much on display at the press conference this evening, makes me think there is going to be a hell of a lot more anger before long. This lot seem to be relishing their moment of power a little too much now. They are clearly still following the Ferguson rolling lockdown strategy to kill a non-existent danger to the vast majority of the population.

41080 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #77 of 729 🔗

Sheesh. Boris ‘I am Churchill’ Johnson.

DavidC

41284 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #78 of 729 🔗

Their day of reckoning will come. I noticed that not one of them has addressed the mounting job losses over the last 2-3 days but come October the shit hits the fan so Johnson and Hancock should beware.

41410 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #79 of 729 🔗

Sunak is engineering a fudge but it won’t be a solution to the mess they seem keen to exacerbate.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/03/furlough-flip-could-mean-government-gives-wage-support-people/

“Furlough flip” indeed – furlough fudge more like!

The fact that they intend to maintain the existing furlough scheme as far as October, proves this isn’t about a cockup but they’re in it for an intended longhaul.

41413 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #80 of 729 🔗

I seriously doubt that will be the solution, more like a sticking plaster that would hopefully stave off job losses especially as part-timers will be the first on the firing line. If a company is already bankrupt no amount of fudging would save these jobs.

41584 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #81 of 729 🔗

What worries me is all the self employed and small businesses, they won’t get in the headlines like the big firms

41593 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to chris c, #82 of 729 🔗

Agree. Those figures I posted yesterday are only the big companies and you can bet that the unemployment figures are bigger when SMEs are included.

41422 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #83 of 729 🔗

It doesn’t. An October end to the furlough scheme means that redundancy consultations will need to begin mid-August. Given that things are only really “opening up” to any extent now, 6 weeks seems about right to assess what trading conditions are going to be like and make decisions on what the workforce is going to look like. If anything, the October timing makes me think that the July timetable must have been known at least as far back as when furlough was extended.

41070 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Scotty87, 2, #84 of 729 🔗

Which town or city will be next?

41073 Bella, replying to Bella, 21, #85 of 729 🔗

8 out of 10 would back a second lockdown? Don’t they get it yet, do they not get it? You’re more likely to get hit by a seagull in a bowler hat dropping a jam sandwich on your head

41082 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bella, 4, #86 of 729 🔗

Damn! I’m going to have to keep looking up now….!

DavidC

41101 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella, 12, #87 of 729 🔗

Lol!

There’s no logic to any of this. I was watching one of those recovered Covid patients being clapped out of hospital by medical staff. None of them were social distancing. Many of them were patting him and giving him little hugs. It was almost as if they were determined to circulate the virus throughout the hospital.

I should think the average healthy 30 year old pub-goer has more chance of dying from tripping on some poorly adhered hazard tape on the floor than from getting the virus! We offer health advice on cigarette packets. We can do the same for pubs: “If you’re aged over 90, extremely fat or suffering from a serious health ailment, don’t go down the pub… or on your head be it.”

41791 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #88 of 729 🔗

‘We’ do not ‘offer health advice’ on cigarettes. We plaster 95%+ of the packs with disgusting pictures and mindless slogans.

I realise you mean the government by ‘we’, OKUK, but they do not deserve to have their foul propaganda rationalised as ‘offering health advice’.

Much of what we are collectively enduring was trialled on UK smokers. With barely a whisper of protest or objection.

41113 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella, 2, #89 of 729 🔗

Knowing my luck it would be the wrong sort of jam.

41415 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, #90 of 729 🔗

Gawd. October can’t come soon enough or maybe their P45!

41074 ted, 20, #91 of 729 🔗

I believe the difference between pillar 1 and 2 tests in the Leicester are also true here in the US and explain the huge increase in positive tests in recent weeks. These are largely being done en masse by a gaggle of private businesses, with no regulatory oversight of quality control as near as I can see. The “positivity rates” are all over the place. We have entered the nutty phase where government mandates and profit seeking businesses combine to create a new panic and policy disaster. If they were looking for some way to utterly collapse two large economies (UK and US) this would be a great way to do it. What a mess!

41078 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 6, #92 of 729 🔗

Wow, professor Friston from UCL on snoozenight tonight has a radically different tune. He clearly sees it is all bullshit, he uses his words carefully but to me it seems crystal clear. I quote, “Fantastical estimates of death tolls and projections”. Really, you don’t fucking say.

41087 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #93 of 729 🔗

I didn’t read it quite like that. Also he didn’t draw the obvious conclusion from his “second spike” prediction ie a death toll of under 7000 for a second spike in January would be chicken feed and so we shouldn’t worry about it at all.

41094 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to OKUK, 1, #94 of 729 🔗

He was pretty slippery but I don’t think he was “on message” at all. I expected someone from UCL to be briefed in advance and totally delivering the propaganda. And the second spike of 6,792 was a great surprise, when he came out with the figure I was stunned. Even the sheep might realise how low that number is, maybe 6,999 might have been more psychologically effective.

41099 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #95 of 729 🔗

I agree he wasn’t giving it the Full Fergie but I think the average viewer would not have clocked he was going against the orthodoxy.

41081 GetaGrip, replying to GetaGrip, 25, #96 of 729 🔗

The whistleblowing Leicester Dr is a morale boost for sure. But there’s a But:
Best not to lose sight of the fact that the vast majority of the 1.5 million NHS employees are covid-compliant and very on-message.
For Doctors, it’s a function of a left-leaning political pursuasion which is both ‘University Student left-wing’ and medical UK ideologically pro-Centralized Healthcare, the effect of being detached from the economic realities experienced by most of your patients, and being academically intelligent in inverse proportion to common sense.

And let’s be frank, a £100000+ (often much more salary) plus a ~£50000+ bulletproof pension also empowers an ideological purity of viewpoint untainted by compromises of economic necessity.

Also remember that most medics couple up with medics. That’s an eye-wateringly-high combined household income (which probably skews the regional stats outside London IMO).

Almost all the Drs I know and work with are very lockdown +.
There’s a Groupthink effect, the weekly affirmation of being lauded as heroes, and an institutionally insulated detachment from the economic plague about to decend upon us.
What could possibly go wrong.
The ones who aren’t on-side are probably opining here, and I count ~7 at best.

41085 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to GetaGrip, 17, #97 of 729 🔗

Yes it’s a real problem – because doctor couples earn so much, female doctors (nearly always a woman) are quite happy to work part time which fits in well with family life. We spend £250,000 training doctors who then work maybe 2 days a week.

It’s amazing – isn’t it? – how doctors up to very recently were quite happy to greet patients without a mask and examine them close up, sharing their breath, while not having a clue what infectious diseases they might be carrying! lol Judged against their current mania for masks, maximised social distance and maintaining the lockdown, their previous modus operandi seems unbelievably reckless.

41086 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 3, #98 of 729 🔗

Or are they just politicised hypocrites?

41089 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to OKUK, 2, #99 of 729 🔗

Yer we re all politicised hypocrites .

41093 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to OKUK, 7, #100 of 729 🔗

And some gratuitous women doctor bashing, too! Many women who stay in education for 5 years or more, to become doctors, vets, accountants, barristers, solicitors etc.,etc., choose to work part time for a year or more after the birth of a child.Good for their child, good for them, good for society that they reproduce, actually. In the past men holding your views complained about women being allowed in to universities, being granted degrees, being allowed the freedom of choice to be a rounded human being. They are rightly regarded as dinosaurs today. .

41098 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sylvie, 3, #101 of 729 🔗

It’s absurd to call that “gratuitous doctor bashing” unless:

  • It’s not true that vastly more female doctors than male doctors work part time.
  • It’s not the case that the cost of training per unit of trained medical output for female doctors is vastly higher than for male doctors.
  • I am actually advocating discriminatory practices against women in education or the medical professions (I’m not in case you wondered).

I was simply responding to the point about the effects of high doctors’ salaries.
I am not saying they should necessarily be paid less. But I am saying the high salaries do create an issue in terms of reduced output, particularly by female doctors.

41124 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to OKUK, 3, #102 of 729 🔗

No you weren’t. You were getting in a purely gratuitous little dig at women taking time out of a lengthy professional career to have children.
You could hypothesise endlessly about reduced output from various causes, from periods of part time working, to periods off sick from drug addiction and misuse (mostly male doctors), periods in court or suspended from practising for sexual assault and inappropriate relationships with patients (mostly male doctors) & so on. Rather more of a waste of public money in my book.

41136 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sylvie, 1, #103 of 729 🔗

All the things you reference are easily quantifiable and would turn out to have minute impact in comparison with the number of female doctors who don’t work full time. If you are saying people shouldn’t quote hurty facts, please just say so. Then we’ll know where we stand.

41138 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to OKUK, 1, #104 of 729 🔗

Go on then, quantify them, if it’s so easy.

41142 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sylvie, 1, #105 of 729 🔗

I didn’t say I had the facts at my fingertips. But things like sick leave are easily quantifiable in principle. If you don’t think they are then say so.

My experience throughout my working life was that the number of days lost to the sorts of things you reference was pretty miniscule compared with things like cancer, colds, flu, accidents and so on. Most big organisations monitor these things, so I expect the NHS does as well.

While we are on the subject, more generally, women take 42% more sick leave days than men. So that is likely reflected in medical practice as well.

https://www.hrzone.com/lead/culture/why-do-women-take-more-sick-leave-than-men-and-what-can-we-do-about-it

41191 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to OKUK, 1, #106 of 729 🔗

So, while we’re completely off the lockdown subject,
‘Sickness presenteeism is defined as going to work while sick, and is common in the health sector and among physicians…This study aimed to examine how gender is related with sickness presenteeism and reasons behind it. In support of hypotheses, we found that women more often go to work when sick than men, and that women and men also differ in the reasons they give for this behavior…Our hypothesis about ‘female’ reasons for sickness presenteeism was partially supported. Women showed a greater concern for patients and colleagues than men. However, the difference in concern for colleagues was only marginally significant (p = .084). That “work piles up” was the most important reason given by both women and men, though to a higher degree among women. All these reasons might be associated with the female stereotype in which women learn to focus on others more than on them selves.’
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/81797127.pdf

41179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Sylvie, #107 of 729 🔗

I can confirm that all the female doctors I have encountered have either been part time or off sick or on maternity leave. Its a complete joke. If more and more women are trained as doctors we are just going to end up importing most doctors from other countries and thereby screwing up their country’s health system. I am not against female doctors but it does get tedious seeing yet another one going part time on what would count as a full time wage for most people.

41361 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hopeful, replying to Sylvie, 1, #108 of 729 🔗

Sylvie,
Just a tip, take it or leave it. When a person has explained what they meant by what they wrote it’s incumbent on you to accept their explanation. Fine if you don’t agree with their point of view. However, not fine that you project your feelings about said issue onto the other person so as to negate their opinion, and moreover, dictate the intent behind what they either said or wrote.

41406 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Hopeful, 1, #109 of 729 🔗

Accepting ‘explanations’ for assertions unsupported by any evidence, even when requested, is precisely what got us in this mess in the first place.

41088 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to GetaGrip, 24, #110 of 729 🔗

There does seem to be a lot of gratuitous medic bashing from some commentators and I do take exception to some of your assertions. As a medic I would say most of my bubble are medics of a certain vintage. and about 90 % share the same opinion as to the effectiveness of the lockdown ; this is after all a lockdown skeptic site rather than a bash the greedy doctors site isnt it ?

Just remember it is the epidemiologists , the media, the politicians and the public health crowd who have been pushing this . I meet many times more fellow skeptic medics than I find in other professions . My ultimate bedwetter is the practice accountant who fumigates all his post before opening a letter.

41092 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #111 of 729 🔗

I am sure most of us have full respect for medical practitioners who do so much to relieve suffering. People are just frustrated by the relentless BS including sometimes, or rather often, from politicised medics e.g. the Doctors Association spokespeople.

41220 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 1, #112 of 729 🔗

In the most part I agree. But there is a silence coming from many health practicioners and actual harms being done by that silence. Some in the health service are complicit with plscing DNARs without full consent, others have not moved heaven and earth to protect elderly.

Many are wonderful as we know. The aim of my post here is to reflect on tbose who must be complicit for the events we see to be happening.

41109 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #113 of 729 🔗

What percentage of medics do you think are ‘of a certain vintage’?

If 90% of medics publicly condemned lockdown its hard to see how they could all be sacked and it would surely sway public opinion – everything hangs in the balance here the liberty of ~60 million people, the livelihoods of millions and counting etc.

If that’s just 90% of say 10% that are ‘of a certain vintage’ then it is more easy to understand why this has not happened already.

41112 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #114 of 729 🔗

Sadly lots of doctors retire early. And this is part of the problem.

Wisdom vortex.

41115 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Farinances, #115 of 729 🔗

I’m a relatively young doctor. I don’t think that’s fair.

41126 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cassandra, 6, #116 of 729 🔗

I do. Older people – and older doctors – are more experienced and therefore more…. wise. I’m not just talking doctors here, I’m talking everyone. My boss is better at his job than me, because he’s been doing it for twenty years longer than I have.
Difference being my boss won’t retire…. well probably never because he’s insane. But he won’t retire until he’s at least 65, because money. I miss old GPs. I really miss them.

41130 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Farinances, 2, #117 of 729 🔗

Clearly someone who’s being doing the job for longer will have better clinical acumen. That’s fine. But I don’t think you can equate that “wisdom” to being anti lockdown. From what I’ve seen there isn’t a generational divide in medics. Lockdown isn’t a wisdom issue, its a critical thinking issue.

41134 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Cassandra, 4, #118 of 729 🔗

Correct Cassandra. Although we trained in different eras I still have all my hair and teeth. I nearly resigned from the BMA over its nonsensical opposition to schools opening but in the end I see that large scale opposition form the paeditricians put a stop to that policy.

41140 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cassandra, 1, #119 of 729 🔗

I’m just going on my experience as a patient. – I’ve received better – not necessarily in the professional or technical sense – medical care from older people. I just have. They were more…. personal. Better bedside manner. And I put that down to experience rather than skill.
You’re right in saying that this is basically nothing to do with lockdown though lol. As a patient though I would definitely feel more comfortable telling an older doctor that I won’t be wearing a mask, for example, than a younger one. I’d expect them to understand my feelings better, or, at least react more sympathetically towards them.

Maybe I just have Mummy & Daddy issues ;D

41137 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cassandra, #120 of 729 🔗

There’s no logic in that. The only issue is: are doctors beginning to retire early? Yes or no. Being young is not a refutation of the argument.

41143 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, #121 of 729 🔗

I’m also not dissing younger doctors.

Just saying I think the NHS may be lacking in older doctors 😉

To be fair I could be COMPLETELY wrong here though. I don’t spend much time in medical settings. I have noticed though a distinct youngening of my GPs/nurses, there seem to be more of them now than there were when I was a kid.

Maybe that’s just me getting old 🙁

41147 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Farinances, #122 of 729 🔗

Yes, I wasn’t implying you were. In my limited experience younger doctors are much better at communication and open to questions from the patient. Less of a God complex.

41149 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, #123 of 729 🔗

Lol it’s the exact opposite in my experience! I don’t think they have a God complex though, they’re just…. well young. Like all young people they haven’t honed their communication skills yet.

41150 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Farinances, 2, #124 of 729 🔗

Perhaps the take home point is that sweeping generalisations may not be particularly valid either way

41154 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cassandra, #125 of 729 🔗

Sadly you have to make generalisations (based on personal experience) in order to have opinions.

41156 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Farinances, 1, #126 of 729 🔗

Exactly. If you can’t generalise, you can’t speak.

“I don’t like fish” “What, all fish?” “Yep.” “Even scampi? I remember you once had scampi and chips and said you like it, back in 1985”. “Well, yeah scampi’s quite nice. I meant fish-fish” “Cor you are such a liar. …you don’t like fish you claim, but you do. You like scampi, so that makes you a liar.”

A free people are allowed to generalise.

41155 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Cassandra, 1, #127 of 729 🔗

Actually the journey from “young doctor ” to older doctor ” tends to creep up on you Cassandra . Often there are the little things that change . Receptionists call you by your title and surname for instance. instaed of your first name.

41159 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #128 of 729 🔗

Ha! I’m just realising the ‘kindly old doctor’ I had as a kid could in fact have been a 50 year old 😉

Nah, he was 60 if a day. I loved him. Bless him. DR JONES.

41160 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Farinances, #129 of 729 🔗

You’re confusing the doc with the Aqua song.

41162 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, #130 of 729 🔗

We used to sing that at him! :o)
Such a good natured soul. Poor man. (This was the doc who came in to our school to do jabs and eye tests and stuff, who also happened to be my GP. Remember that? School doc visits? Wow. I feel 90)

41145 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to OKUK, 1, #131 of 729 🔗

Doctors are leaving the profession in droves. Not retiring, but not going into training, which is the path to consultancy/GP. I don’t think the general public realises how intrusive training is. You sign up, often for a decade, to a deanery, which has a huge geographical area- Scotland is one, Wales another. Then, for that decade, you get rotated around hospitals with minimal say. You can’t suspend training either, unless you get knocked up or sick. And if you voluntarily quit, you can’t return. Ever. So ten years of ping ponging your way about the country working a 60+ hour week…

It makes it immensely difficult to have any sort of meaningful personal life, which is why many drs opt to be GPs, as at least the training is shorter. More still, opt for none of it, and I can’t blame them. If the NHS wasn’t a monopoly employer, it would not have any staff.

Incidentally, can we stop calling it “part time” its less than full time. LTFT. Because often the hours worked, even at LTFT are the same as the hours in a “normal” job.

I’m not asking for a medal here. Just some awareness that actually, this isn’t that amazing a job. Think about it, if we were all lying back on £100k a year, and doing nothing, why would we be leaving? If female GPs really did absolutely nothing, then surely I’d be a female GP, and there would be no shortage of GPs- which there are!

41146 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Cassandra, #132 of 729 🔗

And again, this has nothing to do with lockdown.

41153 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cassandra, #133 of 729 🔗

I’m beginning to think everything has everything to do with Lockdown!

41152 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cassandra, #134 of 729 🔗

Yes I had some appreciation of the points you raise. It is a tough training regime. I would question whether it actually makes better doctors or not. But obviously not my area of expertise.

And I didn’t say doctors shouldn’t receive their current pay levels. But there certainly are problems associated with such high levels of pay.

41158 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to OKUK, 3, #135 of 729 🔗

What high levels of pay? FY1 doctors start on £27k. For that they do a lot. In my first week as an FY1, I had to deal with a man with ruptured oesophageal varices vomiting his entire bodies blood onto the floor at 4am. I was the only doctor free as the others were dealing with emergencies elsewhere. £27k.

And yes, pay increases with seniority. But not by that much. And how much would you need to be paid to be the most senior person on site in the hospital trying to deal with someone exanguinating in a hospital bed? After having worked for 50+ hours and with your bleep going off constantly with countless other sick patients. We’re good value. No one I know in training earns close to £100k.

41163 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cassandra, #136 of 729 🔗

“Key Facts. The average income before tax for combined GPs (contractor and salaried) in either a General Medical Services or a Primary Medical Services practice (GPMS) in the UK was £92,500. Contractor GPs working under a GPMS contract had an average income before tax of £105,500.”

Doctors of course can supplement their income in all sorts of ways. This is just the starting point.

41164 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, 1, #137 of 729 🔗

£27k is also a bloody good STARTING salary!

41165 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Farinances, 1, #138 of 729 🔗

Did you read any of the rest of my statement, or just the £27k?!

41167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cassandra, -1, #139 of 729 🔗

So how come you don’t know any “Contractor GPs working under a GPMS contract who have an average income before tax of £105,500.”

41170 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to OKUK, 1, #140 of 729 🔗

Because I’m a hospital doctor? We don’t all hang out you know? I’m sure Peter is lovely but I’d never normally see him other than as a patient myself.

41173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, #141 of 729 🔗

GPs earn 100k!?!

WTF. OK hospital doctors really are being shat on.

41168 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cassandra, #142 of 729 🔗

Yes.

27k is still a good starting salary.

41169 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Farinances, #143 of 729 🔗

Is it? For the hours? When I was an F1 I worked out my hourly rate. Came to £11 an hour.

41172 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cassandra, #144 of 729 🔗

We not talking FAIR. We’re talking GOOD.

Because *nobody* earns a fair salary (except maybe like…… nope. Nobody. Unless we’re talking unfair in the ‘too much sense ;p).

I’d say, given the opportunity for progression, fairly quickly – it’s still pretty good. You’re unlikely to be stuck at that level in perpetuity like much of the rest of the population. You’ll prob be stuck at the same work hours though I imagine (or maybe less?) but your hourly rate will increase?

What IS bad is if your workload DECREASES dramatically as you go up the pay grades. Cause like…. that’s really not great and is prob the reason why all the junior docs drop out.

41178 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Farinances, 4, #145 of 729 🔗

I don’t think the workload decreases as you go up the rungs. If anything it’s constant and probably worsening, the hours are consistent, but as you increase in seniority you’re expected to make more and more decisions with less and less back up. Anyway. Fun as all these conversations are, I a) don’t see what they have to do with lockdown and b) didn’t come on a lockdown skeptic site to be told me and my colleagues are basically rolling in it like Scrooge Mcduck!

I don’t think my job is great, I have friends in the private sector and while they don’t have the job security that I have, they’re horrified with the shape of training and how brutal an employer the NHS can be (and believe me it IS BRUTAL). I do what I do because I want to help people. I wouldn’t recommend my kids went into it, and if anyone asked me about being a doctor I’d tell them to steer well clear…

41180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cassandra, 3, #146 of 729 🔗

Nobody thinks their job is great (except the very lucky). Everybody gets criticised because they are a …… or a ….. Every citizen has legitimate (and delegitimate) beefs with every profession. Don’t take it personally. The fact that you’re here means you’re one of the good ones. (Believe me as a former journalist I really do get this!!)

But the fact that people are moaning about the medical profession IS related to lockdown. Medicine and medical professionals haven’t had a good war, quite frankly. Scientists haven’t had a good war. Teachers haven’t had a good war (you should have seen us rip into them the other week, wow). Journalists have had the WORST war. Again, don’t take it personally. People have beef with your profession atm – very few people though, honestly. Look at the hero worship you’ve all been getting over the past few months, for most people that’s a genuine thing. You really are appreciated.

I appreciate you. I just don’t appreciate the NHS in its current form – the lockdown has really shone a light on this for me as it has for most lockdown sceptics.

41166 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to OKUK, 1, #147 of 729 🔗

They aren’t in training. They’re GPs. I’m not a GP so can’t really speak to that, but I think you’ll find that partnered GPs have to pay for receptionists and ancillary staff out of that. It’s not take home, its a business.

And how would you suggest I supplement my income after having worked a 50 hour week? Pick up some locum shifts? Sleep is for the weak?

41171 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cassandra, -1, #148 of 729 🔗

Nope. That’s absurd. The ratio of other staff is probably 5 to 1 so even if they are all on only £25k a year there’s no way GPs could pay that out of their income! Are you actually a doctor? Can’t see how you could possibly come out with that nonsense if you really were…

41174 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to OKUK, 1, #149 of 729 🔗

You’re assuming there’s only one GP partner in a practice. Like I said, its not my area. Though I do know that there are salaried GPs who earn a fixed amount from the NHS, and partnered GPs, who, on paper earn a lot, but in reality are essentially small business owners and therefore have to pay their staff out of their huge earnings.

41175 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to OKUK, 1, #150 of 729 🔗

I honestly don’t see what you’re hoping to achieve here. Are you just looking to win an argument?

41176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nobody2020, -1, #151 of 729 🔗

Probably 😉

Interesting discussion tho

41187 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Cassandra, -1, #152 of 729 🔗

A scandal that a man in that condition should be left in the care of a FY1 doctor on her first day. I hope you advised the family and recommended that they complain. Did you take the issue higher? If not, why not? But then again, you doctors cover everything up. That’s how Dr Shipman became the biggest mass killer in British criminal history. It wasn’t another doctor who blew the whistle on him, it was the local taxi firm! Aren’t you ashamed to be a member of such a cowardly profession? The moral vacuum that is the medical profession is breath-taking.

41400 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cassandra, 2, #153 of 729 🔗

I have to say you have my sympathy here. Particularly with what you have to deal with onsite. And also because that training schedule you mentioned above is insane. Which is, as I see it, the problem with the NHS, which I unconditionally applaud as a principle. The bureaucracy and the sheer incompetence of the managers that inhabit it. as in all public life (and I am a supporter of public services): if the admin is run by greedy nutters then everything else suffers. My expertise in these matters are universities which, in most cases, have no scholarship credentials at all and should be downgraded to technical colleges. The people who run these places do not want scholarship or academic merit: now apply the same (non) principle to medicine. Thatcher’s era was responsible for a lot of this when managers were dumped into professions they didn’t know anything about: accountants running the show in medicine, the police, tertiary education, transport, public broadcasting. There was, and still is, no expertise or experience of these professions within those boardrooms. You can’t run a country like you run a grocer’s shop. This has sweet FA to do with Lockdown but nor is this thread. What the hell, it’s a Saturday. (Super Saturday as I recall. Perhaps I’m getting hysterical.)

41186 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Cassandra, #154 of 729 🔗

There’s a shortage of GPs because they (men and women) can earn a salary which pays for a good lifestyle on part-time hours. If you accept a UK university education to become a doctor, you have a moral duty to give back by working a full week (which for a GP is, after all, only 4.5 days!) in the UK public health system from completion of training until 65 years. Otherwise, pay back the full cost of your training. Simple.

41193 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Gillian, 1, #155 of 729 🔗

If you have enough part timers you don’t have a shortage. Part time working has nothing to do with whether or not there are ‘enough’ GPs.
As for any ‘moral duty’, it’s not one recognised by those many British doctors who emigrate, for a start, nor those who choose to work in the UK private health sector. Or are you suggesting that they should not be free to do so, or should repay the cost of their training?

41229 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Sylvie, 1, #156 of 729 🔗

Yes it does. There is a finite training capacity. If you train enough GPs to meet requirements, and then half of these GPs (including half the MEN who might be expected to work full-time, that’s 4 and a half days a week, for a full career of 40 years) decide in their late 20’s or 30’s or later that they are quite comfortably off working only 3 days a week to allow time for art classes, “more time with the family”, house renovation and all the rest of the accoutrements of a smug, self-satisfied, middle-class life, then there won’t be enough GP cover. Manpower planning gone for a burton.

41110 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #157 of 729 🔗

I’ve lost all respect for doctors, particularly female GP’s, a bunch of good-for-nothing lazy takers living off the past reputation of earlier generations of doctors who DID work hard for their patients and EARNED the community’s respect and goodwill.. As a child in the late 1950s, the GP would regularly visit at home. I remember having scarlet fever as a 4 year old in 1961 and mum being up to high doh, and Dr Stewart (old fashioned Scottish doctor) visited to reassure and dole out the penicillin. How did he have the time? He FOUND the time, that’s why, reassurance being a big part of the job. Nowadays I wouldn’t be able to get my 92 year old mum a home visit for love or money. Fuck sake, I can’t even get her into the surgery as the doors have been locked since March. Telephone only. What the fuck are all these wimmin GPs doing? Certainly not looking after the elderly in the community.

41129 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Gillian, 4, #158 of 729 🔗

Sorry I think you need to find a Bash the Doctors website you seem to have strayed onto the Lockdown Skeptics Website. I have today worked with four female GPs who are without exception conscientous and kind . Today we have dealt with over 300 patient contacts . We all start before 8 and finish around 7 pm Long days and visits were done as well.

41139 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #159 of 729 🔗

Ain’t you lucky, working with these wonderful, conscientious caring wimmin GPs. They must all be concentrated in your practice as there certainly aren’t any in this neck of the woods. All part time locums, don’t know the patients from Adam, rushing home at the end of their “session” to collect the kids from after school. 7pm? Don’t make me laugh. Our surgery is locked and bolted at 5.30pm. Even closes for lunch 12.30 to 1.30. Phone unanswered til 8.30 and then you can’t get a line in. Have sat trying from 8.30 to 9.30. Routine appointment? That’ll be 6 weeks away. Fucking disgraceful service. Get better response times from the local plumber.

41148 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Gillian, 1, #160 of 729 🔗

Then I suggest you change your practice , you can also write to the practice manager. I m am not sure why you feel your contibution is helping gain support for lockdown sceptics ?

41157 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #161 of 729 🔗

You doctors just do t like being taken to task by patients on a level playing field. You’re so used to sitting on your high horse talking down to your patients, many of whom will have been out clapping the “wonderful” NHS workers (my God!) the night before. Well, I’ve seen through your Emperor’s new clothes. GPs are well past their sell- by date in the UK. You no longer serve the public. We need a new and better system of primary care. Some hospital doctors (some) I have experienced I have the greatest of respect for. Male and female. But GPs have totally failed. You are not being honest with yourself if you don’t see it. You personally may be hard working and caring bit you simply cannot defend a failed system unless you are deluding yourself.

41161 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Gillian, #162 of 729 🔗

As I said earlier I think you need to find a ” Bash the doctors ” website and there are many around. You haven’t made any contribution to this site which is for lockdown sceptics.

41223 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 1, #163 of 729 🔗

Our GP surgery have been pathetic throughout this – communicating once to cause all registered with them more undeeded stress. The consultation room in the street with the health employee inside talking and gesticulating through the locked glass entrance doors. Cognitively incompetent by any measure but theirs is would seem.

I know nurses working in Hospitals else where have done extraordinary things in their personal lives to be there on shift despite public transport restrictions. No one will ever commend them for the effort they have made.

41151 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Gillian, 3, #164 of 729 🔗

To be fair that’s how my local surgery is, down to a T. It’s not just the female GPs though – they don’t deserve to be singled out for special treatment. It’s all of them :/
TBH the doctors are all pussycats once you finally get to see them, it’s the receptionists I can’t stand. Bloody dragons the lot of them.

41182 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Farinances, #165 of 729 🔗

They are specially selected for the job….in former lives they worked for the Gestapo.

41111 ▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Peter Thompson, 23, #166 of 729 🔗

Yes! I’d say I’m probably a different vintage to Peter- maybe a merlot instead of a port, but I’d say the same! Some of my colleagues are brainwashed, yes, but a lot are not. I think that people fail to account by quite how much our hands are tied. Regulatory bodies are ever present. Many are far far more scared of that than of the virus. And with good reason. Careers can be ruined with little recompense.

And I really don’t see what bringing in women doctors has to do with this. I’m *shock horror* a female doctor. I think I represent rather good value to the NHS for the work I do, the decisions I make, the hours I work- especially as I can confirm that I earn nowhere near £100k! Nowhere near. And as for the pension, I have no idea, but most of the doctors of my generation don’t imagine it will be up to much if we ever get to retire from this grind. What any of this has to do with lockdown is beyond me though…

Believe me, I’m getting immensely irritated by the crap that some doctors are spouting off in the media. I resigned my BMA membership in protest of them supporting the schools in not opening. I’ve held it for years, since pre contract negotiations, and I’ve looked the other way at a lot of rubbish over the years, but that was beyond the pale.

We’ve had to deal first hand with some of the deleterious effects of this lockdown. I’ve seen patients in a horrendous state who’ve stayed at home for far longer than they should’ve. I’ve seen people die who almost certainly wouldn’t have under normal conditions. I’ve also sent patients home with terminal, untreatable conditions, to go and sit alone in their homes (well, I’ve nudged them to break lockdown in that instance, but it’s still very difficult to deal with knowing that’s the situation). There is a degree of moral injury inherent in wanting to help people and being constrained to do so by the system. And then being further constrained to speak out.

Let’s not turn it into a lockdown skeptics vs doctors scenario. Yes, there are some chumps in the press, but I imagine they’re upsetting the majority of us decent medics too… the problem is the NHS and the leaders. Not the doctors themselves. Thanks.

41127 ▶▶▶▶ Cassandra, replying to Cassandra, 6, #167 of 729 🔗

Maybe if Toby wants to look at something with his free speech union, he should look at the impact of the GMC…. Speech isn’t free in all professions.

41204 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cassandra, 4, #168 of 729 🔗

Well said.
Hopefully the Coronaberg Doctors’ Trial will reveal the full story of the shocking treatment of non-Covid patients, and heads will roll.
I’m glad, in a sad way, that I’ve been reading some of Ian Kershaw’s work on Nazi Germany. He brings out the infinite corruptibility of the legal and medical establishments.
In a totally rotten system, honest men and women are virtually powerless, except to do what good they can within their own ambit.
And now I’m re-living that experience. My God!
But after the Nazi feast, came the reckoning.

41253 ▶▶▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Cassandra, #169 of 729 🔗

Well said Cassandra – just thought that contribution needed more than a thumbs up!

41294 ▶▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #170 of 729 🔗

We’ll need to agree to differ.
Where I see and experience a lockdown-positive medical profession voicing little public dissent your experience seems different.
I do see dissenting opinion from American Physicians on sites such as Flatten the Fear but have detected no UK groundswell against the Party Line here, and I wonder – and question – why.

41454 ▶▶▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to GetaGrip, #171 of 729 🔗

I should also confess to being particularly dismayed following a briefing in which our Medical Director and several others digressed into a mutual affirmation session regarding their wish to see the Police break up that lengthy Primark queue we saw on MSM (on the first shop opening day in England).
I need to jump bubbles.

41300 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #172 of 729 🔗

That sounds positive. The next steep is somehow persuading those in strong positions, like medics, to create a change in the narrative. What we see is hundreds clapping themselves and only a few brave enough to challenge some of the nonsense. Medics will be supported and public opinion will turn if they hear Dr and nurses speaking out.

41421 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rick, #173 of 729 🔗

I’ve been hoping poor Toby hasn’t spent half the day ploughing through all that lockdown-irrelevant doctor-bashing.

Have some consideration. This isn’t twitter or facebook!

41378 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #174 of 729 🔗

Peter, I seem to recall you’re a GP is that right? Forgive me if I am wrong, but I know you are attached to the medical profession. So can you give any (personal) anecdotal information as to where your colleagues stand on Lockdown? Also on face masks since my GPs surgery has now declared them mandatory as have many others. What is bizarre about this is that they are doctors: they must know they are not efficacious.

41566 ▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #175 of 729 🔗

After reading the article I can appreciate how rough it is for doctors like you trapped in the “inner circle.”

Met a nurse in the store a month ago. She told me all the hospital beds had been empty during Zero Stage Lock down. Suddenly she got angry. “It’s all a trick. A political ploy!”

I live across the pond. Rural Indiana. Things are relatively loose now. They’re trying to scare us into another “2 week” lock down but the last 2 weeks lasted 13. States like mine are getting fed up with it. My town is having its annual Independence Day parade as it has for over 200 years.

Even if Covid-19 were the next Bubonic Plague everyone’s pretending it is, rural areas still should be less restricted. Even in the Dark Ages people knew infectious diseases were less dangerous outside out in the countryside.

But the Lock Down Zealot Bureaucrats want to hold farming communities to the same standards as Indianapolis. (Our state capital.) Good luck getting anyone to enforce it here.

41266 ▶▶ wendy, replying to GetaGrip, 2, #176 of 729 🔗

Well I know many who are not on side, doctors, nurses and other nhs staff. They have seen wards cleared that remained empty, ambulance service under used, booked private services never needed, lots and lots of staff with nothing to do. They are frustrated at how nothing works now because of the Covid safety restrictions. But they are employees and are not allowed with the threat of dismissal to speak out. From others I know the fire service, prepared to carry the dead, were not needed. And from others how mental health services have suffered. These people are friends and family from my life time of working for the NHS and writing this I feel I must be careful to not identify people.

When is all this, some of it obvious and visible like the nightingales never used, going to be discussed by the Government?

41084 IDM, replying to IDM, 3, #177 of 729 🔗

Here’s my problem: from tomorrow, I won’t drink in any pub or eat in any restaurant that demands my contact details. I’m sure I’m not alone. How do we make it clear that this is not because we’re frightened of catching the virus, but we are frightened of being caught in a big ‘track and trace’ net and put under house arrest; and more importantly because we believe that such registers are a dangerous precedent (the same goes for places of worship and other venues)?

I’m aware that Wetherspoons and Marstons will not force customers to give this information. But there must surely be local, independent hostelries that will be the same. Might there be scope for indicating on your ‘Small businesses that have re-opened’ page those among them that don’t insist on registration?

41372 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to IDM, 2, #178 of 729 🔗

I am phoning everywhere I go in advance and asking them about their policies re: muzzles and antisocial distancing. Their reply is what decides on whether I visit their establishment and I make it very clear that this is the case. If everyone did this not only would their phones be constantly clogged, but they would get the message very quickly that this silly shit is losing- not gaining- them customers.

41091 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 9, #179 of 729 🔗

I don’t think we can dodge the vaccine issue in relation to the Covid-19 controversies. It needs to be addressed.

This article raises a number of interesting and worrisome results in countries where flu vaccination is common:

“A randomized placebo-controlled trial in children showed that the influenza vaccine increased fivefold the risk of acute respiratory infections caused by a group of non-influenza viruses, including coronaviruses.

A study of US military personnel confirms that those who received an influenza vaccine had an increased susceptibility to coronavirus infection. The study concluded “Vaccine derived virus interference was significantly associated with coronavirus.”

European Union numbers show a correlation between influenza vaccine and coronavirus deaths. The countries with highest death rates (Belgium, Spain, Italy, UK, France, Netherlands, Sweden, Ireland and USA) had all vaccinated at least half of their elderly population against influenza.”

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/is-there-a-relationship-between-influenza-vaccination-and-covid-19-mortality/

Will a Covid-19 vaccine really resolve the issue of novel pathogens arising and causing mayhem in our societies? I don’t think so.

41103 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to OKUK, 2, #180 of 729 🔗

No of course it won’t. Thanks to our many knowledgeable commentators here (thank you guy153, djaustin) I have learned that such novel pathogens are largely zoonotic in origin.
As to your link to the childrenshealthdefense.org website, quoted ad nauseam here already by the vax sceptics, the phenomenon of virus interference has been well known in virology for >60 years. The paper it rests its case on is here, so other may make up their own minds:
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/54/12/1778/455098
Nonspecific immunity against noninfluenza respiratory viruses was reported in children for 1–2 weeks after receipt of live attenuated influenza vaccine.Frankly, so what? Nothing to worry about!

41132 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sylvie, 3, #181 of 729 🔗

It seems to me you’re importing prejudices here.

In relaxed fashion you tell us “virus interference” is a well known phenomenon. Maybe. I don’t think that’s what the article is referring to – I may be wrong, not being medically trained. But either way, how often are these issues discussed in the media? Close to zero. We are fed a pap diet of “vaccination good, non-vaccination bad” .

You say “Children’s Health Defense” is quoted here “ad nauseam”. That’s because it’s a repository of relevant scientific papers and news that are ignored or buried by the politico-Big Pharma-philanthropic-medical establishment that rules over children’s and general public health.

If hadn’t visited the site I wouldn’t have known that one in 16 Irish boys now has autism – a rise of 82% in five years. We are in the midst of an autism pandemic and no one cares.

Here is some real science:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyAeQKtVr6U

41183 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to OKUK, 1, #182 of 729 🔗

It’s not me telling you about about virus interference, it’s a direct quote from the paper itself. Which is precisely what the article is referring to. It’s about testing the hypothesis ‘that there is potential for temporary nonspecific immunity between respiratory viruses after an infection’.
Exley’s finding of aluminium in the brains of 5 people who died ‘with’ autism/Alzheimer’s (not necessarily ‘of’ it, as he himself has pointed out) is interesting, but does not demonstrate that it got there as a result of aluminium adjuvants in vaccines, again as he himself points out. And doesn’t answer the question of why most children nowadays have a load of vaccinations but don’t end up autistic.
None of which has anything to do with lockdown. I think it is you who are importing your prejudices here.

41190 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sylvie, 3, #183 of 729 🔗

“And doesn’t answer the question of why most children nowadays have a load of vaccinations but don’t end up autistic.” Silly comment. As Exley points out the most likely reason is genetic susceptibility. If you have the sort of brain that sends “worker” cells from the brain to the massive intrusion site where the vaccine is delivered and those cells subsequently return to the brain, you are going to be much more at risk than someone who doesn’t have that genetic propensity.

41402 ▶▶▶▶▶ Marion, replying to Sylvie, 3, #184 of 729 🔗

‘most children have a load of vaccinations but don’t end up autistic’. Oh, well, that s alright then…And some of those ‘loads of vaccinations’ – are there any that might be a bit, you know… unnecessary ? For example, the hepatitis vaccine, developed originally for gay men to prevent this sexually transmitted disease. And when the gay men said, no, we don’t want it, and it only gives a few months protection anyway, the manufacturers palmed it off to those who like to load babies with ‘a load of vaccinations’, because, hey, don’t want to waste all those research dollars, eh? So a vaccination, meant to prevent a sexually transmitted disease, which only protects against the sexually transmitted disease for a few months, is given to babies.

I really believe that an honest debate should be had about all vaccinations. We have come a very long way since children died in numbers of measles – or any disease come to that. We have better housing and sanitation and on the whole children have a better diet, although diet could be immensely improved if the government dropped its ridiculous campaign against animal fat and lately even against meat. Perhaps levels of vitamin D3 and vitamin C could be monitored in children by a school nurse, perhaps parents could be better educated in the optimum diet for their children – everyone should learn about this in fact – a low carbohydrate, high fat diet that will defeat type 2 diabetes and go a long, long way in ameliorating many other diseases. Lockdown sceptics, of which I am one, of course, may think that this is off topic, but vaccinations are a big part of all this – and what a scam flu vaccines are, just another way for the nhs to spend more of the tax payer’s dollar.

41694 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Marion, #185 of 729 🔗

Certainly most of the highly profitable drugs are little more than antidotes to the crap diet they (try to) impose on us. I suspect vaccines too, some are useful but many are just substitutes for a broken immune system.

42123 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Marion, #186 of 729 🔗

Agree Marion. We should be able to have an honest debate about vaccines, the pros and cons. Also to have trails that compare vaccinate against unvaccinated. All of this is part of freedom of speech!

41201 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sylvie, 6, #187 of 729 🔗

It’s curious.
My great hero, Alfred Russel Wallace, the real Darwin, spent his later years campaigning against compulsory vaccination. I used to think he had gone just a little bit dotty.
Not any more.

41305 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 2, #188 of 729 🔗

That Bill Gates has not had his own children vaccinated says A LOT!

41310 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 2, #189 of 729 🔗

You cannot possibly know this. Assertion and repetition is not the same as fact.

42087 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Sylvie, #190 of 729 🔗

Thanks for the link. I had seen this claim floating around that flu vaccines might make Covid worse but didn’t know what it was based on.

If the reason is viral interference (which sounds like basically all they’ve got) then the argument to stop giving people flu shots so that the flu can protect them against Covid rests on the premise that Covid is 10x more deadly than flu. I think it’s probably around 1-2x as deadly. Which means if you don’t give them flu shots you won’t save any actual lives because more people will just die of flu instead. But it would mean you would have better “died with Covid” statistics and this may indeed explain some of the differences between countries.

The effect of lockdowns on viral interference on the other hand might be significant. Suppose for the sake of argument that the “narrative” were true– that the Covid pandemic in the UK has only just started but has been deftly stopped in its tracks and almost eradicated by a decisive lockdown. The lockdown isn’t specific to Covid so it will have nearly eradicated every respiratory virus (and so the ONS must be lying when they report this is not the case, presumably bribed by Donald Trump). This means that as soon as we gingerly remove our masks SARS2 will have a completely free run and no competition or interference from any other virus, making the final death toll even higher than it would have been.

41095 Biker, replying to Biker, 35, #191 of 729 🔗

Sturgeon and her masks are pure evil. She is destroying Scotland faster than a fat fuck eating a McDonalds. I can’t bare it. I despise her and her supporters. I fear Scotland is finished and in the long term we will never recover. She is just doing what her “expert” tells and you’d have to be a conspiracy theorist to wonder if the Gates Foundation “scientist” she’s using is lying to us. I fear Scotland is gonna be a test country for their evil vaccine. We are in a fight for our lives. So far the battle has been almost too easy but with the masks she’s really asking for it. I will never wear the mask, i will never pay the fine, i will never go willingly to court and i’ll do time before i give these sick bastards a penny. The time has come for free men and woman to make a real stand, not like them weasel racists kneeing for whining blacks who still blame white people because they’re useless losers who can’t make it on their own. I feel embarrassed for your decent black person having these wankers speak for them They are out and out racists. If you support BLM you’re a straight up bigoted racist.

41100 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Biker, 14, #192 of 729 🔗

Oddly, paradoxically, the Scottish Nationalist Party seems to have destroyed the nationhood of Scotland. Scotland was once a nation to be feared. You wouldn’t bet on a 6 foot Englishman against a wiry 5 foot 4 Scotsman. Scotland was distinctive. Now it seems like some bland province ruled by Brussels. Scots were acute, logical, unsentimental. Now?
They seem like sheep to be herded down from the hills to the easygoing pastures.

41108 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to OKUK, 12, #193 of 729 🔗

they’ve just download the same bullshit most westerners have. look at the muppet GrantM for evidence of the kind of snake we’re dealing with. You should say the once proud nation of Britain, the country that invented the modern world, is now a desolate place where the likes of GrantM consider themselves intellectuals. We’e fucked because of folk like him.

41117 ▶▶▶▶ GrantM, replying to Biker, -37, #194 of 729 🔗

Im a brainwashed muppet………get real. At least Scotland is doibg way better in controlling the virus than England is. Yeah the mask thing is dumb but i read a bit up on life during the Spanish Flu recently. Turns out San Francisco fined people for not wearing face masks too. So its not that different really

41120 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to GrantM, 8, #195 of 729 🔗

Scotland has the third worst death rate per capital in the world pal, you know nothing you slimy turd of a ladyboy

41200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 3, #196 of 729 🔗

Oooh, how nice, our pet family moron is back!

41105 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Biker, 13, #197 of 729 🔗

White Lives Matter

41106 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Biker, 7, #198 of 729 🔗

so in your pathetic tiny mind i’ve to walk up willingly with my arm out ready for a dick like to stick a vaccine in it then i’ve to slavishly go along with blacks who hate white people and white people who hate blacks so much they pretend to support BLM. You are disgusting and an absolute wanker. Fuck off yourself you tedious prick.

41114 ▶▶ Christopher, replying to Biker, 7, #199 of 729 🔗

77 Brigade detected .

41177 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Christopher, #200 of 729 🔗

Like….. honestly….. why? Why would anyone do this unless they were being paid??

41184 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Biker, #201 of 729 🔗

I used to admire Scotland when I was younger and liked the Scottish people and their dry humour. What on earth has happened to that country. England is bad enough as it is!

41198 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 5, #202 of 729 🔗

It won’t be long before they’ll be putting up a statue to you, Biker, Resistance hero!
Remember to put an electric fence round it to keep off BLM.

41281 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 7, #203 of 729 🔗

I only wanted to ride my motorcycle in the dirt leaving no evidence of me having ever been here.
I, perhaps foolishly, thought i’d drift along at the bottom of this gravity well at my own pace under my own steam asking only that others do the same. Was it to much to ask?
I feel like a speck of dust
With tyrants to the left of me, clowns to the right trying to suppress my loosely connected perception of reality i have to speak out. This takedown of humanity is a dirty dishcloth wiping away dust and cobwebs and the strange debris you find when you occasionally clean behind the cooker or couch or under the stairs and in that box in the garage where the sprocket set for a “72 Triumph scrambler sits. The scent of perfume from a long forgotten lover that seems, for a second, like you can smell again. The glimpse of a stranger when their eyes tell you in that moment we shared a connection to the oneness of everything . An odd glimpse into the past that bring feelings of what can never be felt, the blinding insight of what you need do next, this is to be disinfected. They’re killing 99.9% of all known thoughts.
Seems now we have a need to form a land army not unlike Boudicca to fight off the Romans. Well we need to fight off the Romans now Annie and you’re our Boudicca. It won’t be a statue of me we need, i’m just a speck of dust, it’ll be you. Off course i say that metaphorically speaking as we all know the man who wants a statue of themselves isn’t to be trusted, who even wants to be remembered at all. No one remembers anyone.
We serve humanity only when we leave each other alone.

41439 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 5, #204 of 729 🔗

I din’t want a statue of me. I want a country where there’s no need for a statue of me.
One of those Boudicca chariots with knives on the wheels might come in handy, though.

41233 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 2, #205 of 729 🔗

Original Biker Post.
Yes. They want us fucked. The first population to become a quivering blob of acquiesence. It is a war, sturgein realises her antics have tanked the country, the only option is for her and them to forcefully push on until submission. Too deep in now for them to relent. She pushed the reset button and has only her higher ups across the world to hang onto for support. Not a strong person or leader.

I’ve made a point of talking with strangers out and about. The madk thing is being rejected. People have articulated to me they see through this story masks are for health.

Said before but woryh repeating – did sturgeon deliberately act in a manner to cause the spread of the virus? Why now (a weeks time) have mandatory masks – the peak was around 20 March 2020. In sturgeons own understanding of Science I suggest that is neglect. Calderwood the Unready (to be CMO in a crisis) proved single handedly there is no black death out there.

41369 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 1, #206 of 729 🔗

“Quivering blob of acquiescence” should be the name of our next troll 😅

41097 It doesn't add up..., #207 of 729 🔗

Not sure if posts that go to moderation simply stay there, but you may be interested in the one I made earlier (doing my best Val Singleton).

41104 sam, replying to sam, 1, #208 of 729 🔗

It seems the EU has been plannig vaccine passports for a while
https://ec.europa.eu/health/sites/health/files/vaccination/docs/2019-2022_roadmap_en.pdf

41245 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to sam, 1, #209 of 729 🔗

Interesting! EU do not allow GM foods but looks if they do this that they will allow genetically modified vaccines.

41248 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Victoria, #210 of 729 🔗

Genetically modified humans next!

41452 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, #211 of 729 🔗

Isn’t that the point of the new vaccines?

41131 sam, replying to sam, 1, #212 of 729 🔗

plans underway

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/uk-orders-65-mln-injection-devices-from-becton-dickinson-for-vaccine-program-2020-07-03&nbsp ;
July 3 (Reuters) – Medical technology company Becton Dickinson and Co BDX.N said on Friday it received an order from the UK government for 65 million injection devices to support Britain’s COVID-19 vaccination program.
The order for 65 million needles and syringes is to be delivered by mid-September, the company said in a statement, adding that it was also working with Britain’s National Health Service (NHS) to expand access to diagnostic testing.
The company said in May it was preparing to ramp up manufacturing operations to handle demand for COVID-19 testing kits in the event of a second wave of infections in the fall.
Among the many tests that Becton Dickinson has recently launched is a kit that can give results in two to three hours, as well as an antibody test that can confirm current or past exposure to COVID-19 in as little as 15 minutes.

41141 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to sam, 2, #213 of 729 🔗

Bad news

41144 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to sam, 1, #214 of 729 🔗

Don’t they know the real population figure is 75 million not 65 million! lol

41181 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to sam, 4, #215 of 729 🔗

Hope = “in the event of”

Remember they spent millions on Tamiflu that they never used.

41453 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #216 of 729 🔗

Because word got out that it was killing people?

41458 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to sam, #217 of 729 🔗

Now that’s more like something to panic about!

41185 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 11, #218 of 729 🔗

Well I’m still here.

You are witnessing one of my personal symptoms of Covid-1984. Insomnia.

(I have a history with sleeplessness since childhood and it rears its head now during ‘times of trouble’, shall we say. Clearly this is a ‘time of trouble’ and clearly my body knows it).

41188 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Farinances, 3, #219 of 729 🔗

Me too. Mind in overdrive.

41197 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Gillian, 5, #220 of 729 🔗

And me. Hence the early rising!

I find that if I put on a familiar audiobook with a ‘sleep’ limit, it distracts my thoughts enough to enable me to drop off, at least for a while. Only possible if you sleep alone, obviously.

Or, I suppose, you could try counting sheeples…

41367 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to annie, #221 of 729 🔗

ASMR. Works wonders.

41189 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 14, #222 of 729 🔗

This is what Scotland is aspiring to be like…
Jacinda Ardern outlines what will ‘change the future scenario of our borders’

https://bit.ly/38pcHNL

Ardern acknowledged that the “disadvantage” for New Zealanders is border controls.
“Will they be with us forever? Well, when we have development of vaccine, treatment, reliable quick turnaround testing – all of that will change the future scenario for our borders,” she said. “Those are technologies that would all make a difference to New Zealand’s borders.”

Meanwhile in the Times…

New Zealanders worry about cost of beating coronavirus
https://outline.com/sMt9kT

But questions are now being asked whether New Zealand’s triumph is a hollow victory: to stay coronavirus-free requires the island nation to maintain its almost complete state of isolation from the rest of the world at enormous economic and social cost

41203 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #223 of 729 🔗

Greece are having the same issues. The problem is, they *have* to open up to international tourism otherwise the islanders will starve this winter, literally. Yet because they locked down so hard, barely anybody has any immunity. These are the scenarios that Professor Giesecke warned about, weeks ago. It’s easy to go into lockdown, but much harder to come out of it.

41219 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #224 of 729 🔗

Could be they’ll be waiting a long time for a vaccine that actually does anything.

Professor Sarah Gilbert said a vaccine would only be likely to “take the edge off” symptoms, rather than giving complete protection.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12008187/coronavirus-vaccine-protection-for-years-may-be-ready-before-winter/

41302 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #225 of 729 🔗

Alliance for natural health says goal is for vaccine in January. There are lots of vaccines in the making (of which Gates is financing 7…). Highly recommend ANH’s film about the unanswered questions regarding a vaccine. There is an A4 to print off and distribute; it is really good as it is not too ‘controversial’ in the way it is written..I think people would read it, as the questions it poses are entirely reasonable!

41192 Nobody2020, 3, #227 of 729 🔗

And next door in Australia…

‘Victorians were suddenly pariahs’: how the state’s coronavirus outbreak divided Australia
While most Australians are enjoying increased freedoms, 300,0000 Victorians in Covid-19 hotspots are back in lockdown

https://bit.ly/31J9FlW

Many in the affected suburbs expressed frustration, while those in surrounding suburbs urged their neighbours to stay away. Businesses asked customers in hotspots not to come. Those living in hotspots felt they had been adhering to social distancing measures, but were now being affected by a failure of infection control protocols by a security company, and by the careless actions of a few individuals who attended family gatherings despite being unwell and awaiting Covid-19 test results.

Former national mental health commissioner Professor Ian Hickie of the University of Sydney, criticised the government’s “top-down” approach to lockdowns, suggesting it eroded the sense of community among Australians.

“If you are trying to treat this as a law and order issue, there becomes a conflict,” he said. “It’s us against them, ‘you are the problem’, ‘we have to lock you down’… that encourages a sense of civil disobedience and disorder. It really distracts from the sense of community, and if you destroy the community you destroy people’s mental health, and the more anxious and less trusting of the government and neighbours they become.”

41194 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 12, #228 of 729 🔗

From The Oxford English Dictionary:
Fiction: a belief or statement which is false, but often held to be true because it is expedient to do so.
The third definition of fiction as given by the OED
A sign of our times, methinks.

And, When She Who Must Be Obeyed gave her thoughts on the air bridges fiasco, she referred to allowing ‘our own citizens to travel’: we are citizens of the UK, despite what Wee Bernie might prefer.

Scottish business leaders – Scottish Chamber of Commerce and the owners of Glasgow and Aberdeen airports have urged the FM to commit to a united strategy which pertains to the UK as a whole.

How much more of this nit picking must we endure?

We read about our European neighbours like Switzerland and the Czech Republic resuming normal service, yet here we are, stuck between the devil and the deep blue SNP.

And as for wearing scarves, masks etc in our hard pressed shops, forget it, I’ve just done an online grocery order.

Local conversations show just how fed up folk are with all this constant politicking.

41196 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 16, #229 of 729 🔗

Remember the collapse of the Soviet bloc? Its peoples appeared cowed, quiescent, even (some of them, after decades of brainwashing) convinced of the virtues of the system, But once the rotten edifice showed the first cracks, the end was swift,
Maybe the enforced muzzles will create the first crack. If so – chop chop, one ex-Krankie.
Can’t happen too soon. Help it happen!

41254 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 3, #230 of 729 🔗

At a nano particle level I have seen the possibilty of the first fracturings. All it takes is one person to say to another this mask thing is ridiculous, then another and another.

Ironically there will be many willing to take silver to don a black mask and chop chop!

41466 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #231 of 729 🔗

I’d been thinking along those lines – well about the cracks anyway. Good analogy with the Soviet bloc. You can pushpeople so far, then (hopefully!!) they’ll push back.

41237 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to wendyk, 12, #232 of 729 🔗

Couldn’t agree more wendyk. Have started to get my online orders in and shop this week while I can without the muzzle and I’m not going back until this nonsense is lifted. WTF is this doing to our economy? She is driving us off a cliff (although arguably she’s been doing that for years…maybe all she’s doing is pressing the accelerator peddle).
I’ve been struggling this week. A depressing conversation with my hairdresser who was offering me an appointment on the 15th but only if I wore a muzzle, didn’t chat and waited outside for 15 minutes while they decontaminated the seat from the previous occupant. Needless to say, I turned the ‘offer’ down. But the one that really upset me was the local garage who have a cafe attached had opened up a takeaway. At the side of their forecourt they had sectioned off a space with lovely picnic tables and fencing where customers could eat. Some numpty reported them to environmental health and they have had to put barriers across the section – outdoor gatherings not allowed.
I am absolutely sick of this.

41244 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 8, #233 of 729 🔗

What a dreary place Sturgeon land has become. I do my own hair now, having found that YNR cutting razors do the job perfectly well ; I don’t have to swathe myself in plastic or feel unclean!

Recently I’ve met 2 other women who have the same cropped style and we’re all content with our DIY styling: the short hair club.We smile and swap tips.

One old bloke ,complete with mask, looked alarmed and avoided me when I passed him this morning,my face bare.

One of my last visits to our local supermarket; I like the staff; it’s easy to walk to, but I won’t sign up to this piece of dictatorial nonsense!

41264 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 3, #234 of 729 🔗

Speak to the staff. Ask them what they think and what instructions they will be working under.

Only posted here for relevance I know you are a brighter spark than I Wendyk! Encouraging people to calmly vocalise questioning.

41293 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 5, #235 of 729 🔗

Will try it Basics and see what happens. As this is a small town, most of us are on good terms with the excellent team at the supermarket and often stop to exchange a few pleasantries-whether this will be added to the verboten list by the Holyrood Gauleiter remains to be seen.

Hope Biker will join us soon as he and his family work in a large supermarket and are all well and maskless. His Pictish defiance is an inspiration to us all.

41432 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 4, #236 of 729 🔗

Remember Kipling on the Picts?
‘leave us alone and you’ll see / how we can drag down the great”,
Not that Krankie is great, but dragging down is the thing.
Woad on, Biker!

41482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 1, #237 of 729 🔗

Yes indeed:Biker to the rescue

41259 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 4, #238 of 729 🔗

See carl vernon youtube latest … part way through carl reads the law about hair dressing masks. They have a visor you don’t need a mask. The law goes on to state both wearing masks has no point.

I saw but in reality I have no idea if it is law, rule or what.

41270 ▶▶▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Basics, 5, #239 of 729 🔗

Thanks Basics – will do. Hairdresser was going for covering all bases – visor AND mask for her. Mask for me. Apparently she had heard two people in the village had got the virus (not died, just got) and that was ‘too close for comfort’. I’m trying to smile…..

41476 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #240 of 729 🔗

Not got, just heard!!

Good luck with it.

41474 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #241 of 729 🔗

It’s “guidelines”. Depends who’s enforcing them I guess.

41487 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Basics, 6, #242 of 729 🔗

I had my first haridressing appointment this morning. I was so looking forward to it and having a chat with my hairdresser. But I was dismayed almost at the start, when she asked me if I had a mask. When I said I didn’t, she was going to get one for me but I pointed out that it wasn’t the law (she had a visor on) and that I was exempt from wearing one anyway (just because I think I’d choke if I had to).

She then said that it was ‘for her’ that I needed one and that she would have to wear one. So she wore a visor and a mask the whole time. She’s a pretty fit 46year old so not at risk. We didn’t really speak during the session because I just couldn’t make out what she was saying. It was a very depressing experience.

41199 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 14, #243 of 729 🔗

‘…doctors are under strict instructions not to talk to the media….’

Chilling words…..’Chernobyl’ writ large….in the cradle of democracy.

A better example of why a massive public sector is not just a bad but a really dangerous idea would be hard to find.

41206 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 20, #244 of 729 🔗

One example of why ‘…doctors are under strict instructions not to talk to the media….’:

Updating PHE COVID-19 Diagnostic Test Protocols 11 April 2020

‘…….some discordant results have been identified.’

‘Summary of the initial results:

1. There is considerable diversity of molecular platforms, reagents, kits and assay performance conditions in PHE and NHS laboratories providing SARS-CoV-2 molecular detection

2. There is evidence of quality assurance difficulties for key reagents due to global supply chain issues

3. Shortages of swabs and transport medium have led to local variations in sampling practice which may impact on assay performance through the introduction of inhibitors into biochemical reactions

4. There is no evidence of viral genetic drift as a basis for altered sensitivity of assay

5. Enzyme performance from external suppliers has degraded compared with original validation performance.’

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zoki1xUKuY15JmPujZXd-mMjXn0K_2GM/view

In short, covid 19 diagnosis as late as 11 April was all over the shop, hopelessly unreliable.

So the lockdown was based on an incompetent piece of modelling, data from China which changed its case definition 7 times between February and March, data from Italy which downgraded its covid 19 mortality figures to 12% of the original figure, and diagnostic tests which were hopelessly flawed.

As a consequence, over 10,000 people died before their time.

When is the public inquiry?

41246 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #245 of 729 🔗

This SCAMDEMIC need to be BLOWN WIDE OPEN
I wrote a scathing email to the practice manager of my local surgery three weeks ago and I still haven’t got a reply. Perhaps said manger was just too shocked and offended to bother to reply or perhaps I put the cat amongst the pigeons and they crapped them selves.

41479 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, #246 of 729 🔗

I thought public sector had rules about time limits for replies, eg a thank you for your communication, we’ll get back to you should be sent within 48 hours etc.
Has that changed with creeping privatisation?

41364 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #247 of 729 🔗

To be fair they’re like Fort Knox at the best of times. Even not during a Scamdemic it is extremely hard to get anyone in the medical profession to talk to you, even if you’re trying to do a sympathetic story.
An old editor told me it’s in a lot of their employment contracts- how true this is I don’t know.

41202 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 1, #248 of 729 🔗

https://www.draeger.com/en_uk/Safety/Breathing-Apparatus-Equipment

Here is the ultimate in PPE for the terminally timorous.

Try one out Wee Bernie, take the lead, show us how to keep out every single pathogen and reduce risk to absolute zero.

41205 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to wendyk, 1, #249 of 729 🔗

😂 If I wore that on the plane other passengers would think I was on the way to join Top Gun!

41207 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to CarrieAH, #250 of 729 🔗

And imagine the reaction at Holyrood!
It’s just to show how utterly ridiculous and sinister all these rules and guidelines are .

41210 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to wendyk, 1, #251 of 729 🔗

Bit pricey I suspect, I’m thinking about one of these (when they’re back in stock) for the satirical effect mainly and for use as a respirator for anything really unpleasant. https://www.protectivemasksdirect.co.uk/protective-masks/powered-air-respirators/powercapr-active

41211 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #252 of 729 🔗

Yes I was aiming for the satirical effect as well. We seem to be living in la-la land now.

41208 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 23, #253 of 729 🔗

Compare and contrast these two statements:

‘…… simulated sunlight and matrix significantly affected the decay rate of the virus. Relative humidity alone did not affect the decay rate; however, minor interactions between relative humidity and the other factors were observed. Decay rates in simulated saliva, under simulated sunlight levels representative of late winter/early fall and summer were 0.121±0.017 min-1 (90% loss: 19 minutes) and 0.379±0.072 min-1 (90% loss: 6 minutes), respectively. The mean decay rate without simulated sunlight across all relative humidity levels was 0.008±0.011 min-1 (90% loss: 125 minutes). These results suggest that the potential for aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2 may be dependent on environmental conditions, particularly sunlight.’

https://academic.oup.com/jid/article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiaa334/5856149

Quick summary: look at the fatality rate outside of Wuhan – it’s below 1%. The correct comparison is not SARS or MERS but a bad cold which kills people who already have other health issues. This virus will burn itself out in May when temperatures rise. Wash your hands.’

https://www.fwdeveryone.com/t/puzmZFQGRTiiquwLa6tT-g/conference-call-coronavirus-expert

The first quote is from a report 11 June

The second is from a widely respected coronavirus expert in Hong Kong 06 February

Britain had all the expert opinion that it needed well in advance of the lockdown.

The debacle that ensued was, of course, due to incompetence, incompetence routinely found in massive public sector organisations all over the world.

The indictment is that a cover up has been in progress from an early stage, mendacious choreography to hide widespread and grotesque professional incompetence, as a consequence of which over 10,000 people died, are still dying, before their time.

When is the public inquiry?

41216 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #254 of 729 🔗

Chaired by Lord Sumption.

41231 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #255 of 729 🔗

I’m not great at predicting the future, but I can confidently state that Sumption will not get the position!

41484 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 1, #256 of 729 🔗

Isn’t he retired anyway? That’s probably why he can speak out.

41225 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #257 of 729 🔗

They are having one in France: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53287722

The only specific point it mentions here is the one about shortage of medical equipment – cherry picked by the BBC possibly because it resonates with one of their pet topics regarding the UK govt handling of the virus. But I read elsewhere there are 44 counts in total being investigated – 90 were originally brought but the rest were thrown out. I’ve tried to find what those 44 counts are but my ability to navigate French government websites and news sites is a bit limited. I would love to know what the other 43 things are being investigated. Maybe it will come to nothing, but it’s a start.

Edouard Philippe: France’s former PM faces probe into Covid-19 response
A court has launched an inquiry into the French government’s handling of the coronavirus response.
The investigation focuses on three senior figures, including outgoing Prime Minister Edouard Philippe, following complaints from unions and doctors.
Earlier on Friday, Mr Philippe resigned amid a cabinet reshuffle.
The government has faced criticism over shortages of medical equipment during the pandemic.
Hours after Mr Philippe’s resignation, it was announced that the Law Court of the Republic, which deals with claims of ministerial misconduct, would open an inquiry into the way his government handled the pandemic.
Along with the outgoing prime minister, those under investigation include Agnès Buzyn, who stepped down as health minister in February, and her successor Olivier Véran, senior public prosecutor François Molin said.

41252 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #258 of 729 🔗

Like I just said.
THIS PLANDEMIC NEED TO BE EXPOSED TO THE SUNLIGHT

41213 Ned of the Hills, 6, #259 of 729 🔗

Early this week I took a photo of a shop window in Ireland displaying dolls wearing face masks. I took it to be a joke – but now I’m fearing it might be a horrible portent of the future. Children will grow up thinking it is a permanent fixture on people’s faces. [I will email the photo in question to Mr. Young if he wishes]

41221 grammarschoolman, replying to grammarschoolman, 11, #260 of 729 🔗

More importantly than any of this, will the Free Speech Union be supporting David Starkey after his disgraceful treatment at the hands of several disgustingly woke universities?

41721 ▶▶ annie, replying to grammarschoolman, 1, #261 of 729 🔗

I suppose he’d need to ask them first.
He will survive, I’m sure, and Fitzwilliam College won’t be much loss to him. He will, however, be a great loss to Fitz, a johnny-come-lately college, the mediocrity if its academic achievements being equalled only by the mediocrity of its architecture.

41727 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, #262 of 729 🔗

Mediocre architecture? That’s doing a disservice to the general standard of architecture.

41224 CarrieAH, 4, #263 of 729 🔗

The Ladybird book is fabulous! Except it should be “Government’s” in the title. That’s because the Track and Trace System belongs to the Government. Not to us, thankfully! 😂

41226 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #264 of 729 🔗

I was in my local supermarket this morning. A masked man said something to me. “Sorry, I didn’t understand a word of that,” I replied.

He moved closer, to within a foot or so, pulled down his mask, and said: “They keep moving stuff.”

“Aye. They do it on purpose,” I responded. He was apparently perfectly normal, once he had removed the mask.

41518 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #265 of 729 🔗

We went to a car boot sale last Sunday. It was great to do something normal again. We bumbled around the sale and I overheard a couple of sour faced women walking around the boot sale complaining about the excessive (unsafe) amount of people – at the boot sale. On hearing them still complaining 10 minutes later I was sorely tempted to say “well, piss off home then – nobody is forcing you to be here!”.

41227 TJN, replying to TJN, 18, #266 of 729 🔗

‘I can’t imagine that loathsome creature Hancock has ever had to decide whether to take in an extra reef when the seas are getting up and the gunwales are dipping from the excess heel!’

Yes, I’ve often thought something similar, not just about Hancock but about almost everyone who has obtained positions of responsibility in our institutions.

I’m not a sailor, but I’ve done a lot of solo diving and solo sea swimming. Of  course, you have to think about and balance risks all the time – the independence that brings is part of the joy of it. To be out at sea on your own, especially underwater, certainly concentrates the mind on risk and responsibility. A lot of people are horrified by what I do, saying it’s so dangerous and so on. But it’s really not. I’d say that someone acting alone, but thinking about and making their own decisions, is invariably operating far more safely than someone undertaking the same activities in a group but letting the group think for them.

I guess that most people who undertake solo ‘adventure sports’ – by which I mean activities in which you take responsibility for your own physical safety – might say the same. (I don’t like the phrase ‘adventure sports’, by the way – intellectual activities might also be included – but it will do for here.)

But in the last two to three decades it appears to me that – through the very selection processes which weed out and discourage any inconformity or propensity for independent thinking and action – the individuals who have risen to prominence in our institutions have been an entirely different type of person, indeed the diametric opposite. Rather they have been ‘team players’, who have ‘walked the walk and talked the talk’. They do, say, and think, what they are told to do, say, and think. ‘Time pleasers’ as I recall Shakespeare calling them. Unorthodox thinking in others is patronised, and if it persists punished – witness today’s ‘cancelling’ culture. They are comfortable only in hierarchies, as part of a group. Such people are, almost by definition, not leaders but followers.

Perhaps this explains the utter failure of our institutions to provide any effective leadership during the covid episode, but how they have instead been paralysed by what confronts them and taken refuge in the herd. If I am correct, it will take a generation and philosophical revolution to put right.

Sadly, right now, as a society we are going in the diametrically opposite direction. It’s hard to see what might turn it around – although economic deprivation akin to the 1970s might do the trick. God help us all.

41239 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, 3, #267 of 729 🔗

Very good post. I would wager, however, none of those at the top of our institutions are ‘team players’ unless you define ‘the team’ as Common Purpose.

41249 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #268 of 729 🔗

‘Team players’ is something I heard over and over again in my former work – government science as it happens. What it meant is that they didn’t want anyone with a questioning mind. The move to open-plan offices finally did for me – couldn’t stand it, felt as if I was going nuts – and now I just endure relative poverty. So I speak from bitter experience.

See you in the National Archives sometime! I have to keep my brain active somehow …

41417 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, 1, #269 of 729 🔗

Some amazing stuff in TNA. I have a specific dataset covering 1940-1975 for some analysis I have been doing. Goldmine of civil servant ‘double speak’ and all manner of dubious practices. Ditto, just keeping my mind active too as a bit of a hobby. From my professional work experience, there are no such people as ‘team players’; there are ‘politicians’, the ‘shat upon’ and a very rare few geniuses or ‘stars’ who can transcend the system. I am not aware of a bonus system that is meritocratic with regard to ‘teamism’!

41460 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #270 of 729 🔗

I deal with mainly older material in TNA – before the mid eighteenth century. But a little while ago I had cause to spend a fair bit of time in Civil Service papers for a decade from the mid 1960s. To tell the truth, what struck me was the professionalism and honesty with which they approached their work compared with their counterparts working in a similar area today.

I use ‘Team players’ as a phrase I’ve heard managerialists utter many times – the background message, of course, being that if you don’t go along with them you are against all your work peers as well. Ultimately, they drive everyone out except for the ‘team players’. Mission accomplished, as far as they are concerned.

While the NA reading rooms are shut there’s free digital downloads though! I’m up to about 90 documents now – it’s an ill wind … just like 70% off a lots of Hotel Chocolat easter stuff this morning.

41572 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, #271 of 729 🔗

Agree on Civil Service in the 1960s. I have been struck by the quality of information they gathered, and how prepared they were before meetings (with external, industry bodies, for example). This is why I have said on here, my view is that the SAGE minutes released are ‘minutes of minutes’ because what I can see in the TNA collections is so much more comprehensive and detailed background, plus who said what and when. It’s some of the sidebar hand-written comments that have amazed me – very Sir Humphrey!

41722 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #272 of 729 🔗

The material I was dealing with had almost exact parallels with a situation a Civil Service department was dealing with recently, details of which I had obtained through a FOI query. The competence, impartiality and professionalism with which the 1960s individuals dealt with this was in very marked contrast to that of their counterparts half a century later.

More evidence to my theory that something has gone very wrong with our institutions.

I think you wrote your minutes of minutes comment in reply to something I wrote ages ago, and I am sure it is an astute observation. Anyone thinking they are gaining much of an insight into the government handling of covid through reading the SAGE minutes is, I think, being a bit naive.

Having criticised civil servants though, I must say that I find the National Archives brilliant, from the cataloguing right through to the service when you are there. We don’t always recognise that not all the public sector is bad – some is excellent. Credit where credit is due.

41821 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to TJN, #273 of 729 🔗

The rot set in after Thatcher came to power. The one day strikes in 1981 were supported by many senior Civil Servants, in sympathy with their low paid staff. (They worked, but declared they were on strike, so no pay.) After that, increasingly, one was expected to be ‘on message’ , in an atmosphere where if you weren’t with the message, you were against it. Before that, independent thought and questioning, exploring all the options were valued.

42054 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bruno, #274 of 729 🔗

Interesting point, although I’m not old enough to have had direct experience of the workplace back then. I’d always imagined that it was easier to go against the grain at he end of the 1980s than at the beginning (taming of Unions, etc). But through the 1990s I witnessed what I interpreted as the beginnings of a drive towards conformity in the workplace – the rise of business-speak and the open plan office being insidious examples.

41298 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to TJN, 4, #275 of 729 🔗

And of course, many are are on the public sector payroll-I include the various quangos -or tenured, and don’t face the struggles of those who work in the private sector, or they are celebs who seize any and every opportunity to burnish their pc credentials.

Added to this mind numbing conformity, is the alarmingly effective overlay of virtue signalling, public emoting , conspicuous compassion-(but only for those on the approved list) and knee jerk gesture politics.

Just recently we’ve had to endure weeks of this,all dolled up with double standards which would not have passed muster even a few years ago.

41461 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to wendyk, 5, #276 of 729 🔗

Yes, the public sector has been bad, but I’m afraid that it’s not just them. We are supposed to book days in advance to walk in the grounds of a local Natural Trust property; a short time ago the RNLI were on about closing beaches because they didn’t have life guards available; churches are shut; stupid rules in shops; our wonderful MSM. As I’ve posted here before, I can’t think of one institution which has come out of this with any credit.

I do find the mind-numbing conformity and virtue-signalling deeply disturbing.

41478 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TJN, 3, #277 of 729 🔗

I think that the use of reason and rationality has been discarded in favour of cheap emoting and nudging,and that this really took off following Diana’s death: teddy mountains, hysteria,’people’s princess etc’ . Blair milked it for all it was worth.

Since then, we’ve witnessed MPs and MSPs blubbering in parliament:inappropriate and unseemly; candle waving; hugging and now the predictably annoying ‘my thoughts are with… fill in the blanks’ following any lethal event; Sturgeon claiming to be close to tears on a regular basis.

This is repellent and indicative of a rapid decline in our civic standards.

Where will it end?

And yes, you’re right about various other bodies signing up to Project Fear.

41728 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to wendyk, #278 of 729 🔗

Yes, Diana’s demise was a watershed. But emotion is so much easier than actually thinking about something. It’s much easier to wallow than to forge a way ahead.

41718 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, #279 of 729 🔗

Not total conformity! There’s us! And legions of angry commenters on You Tube.
When commenting on YT, I always mention lockdownsceptics.org. Offer a lifeline!

41724 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, #280 of 729 🔗

Hopefully the scepticism is more widespread than we are led to believe – although I don’t see much evidence of it in my immediate circle, almost none in fact. And we down here in Devon have hardly been affected by covid.

Any other Devon sceptics on here?!

41228 Antonedes, replying to Antonedes, 15, #281 of 729 🔗

The most alarming item in this news is the gagging order on NHS staff.

41242 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Antonedes, 7, #282 of 729 🔗

The NHS were on the news daily and all over social media for months. Where was the “gagging order” when we were being subjected nurses performing the Haka?

42723 ▶▶ Iwona, replying to Antonedes, #283 of 729 🔗

Nothing new, we’ve been banned from talking about anything re: C-19 since the end of February in the hospital I work.

41230 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 16, #284 of 729 🔗

Hello! First time typing here, though Toby has posted a few of my emails to him on the ‘Latest News’ in the past.

I read earlier in these comments about some of you sleeping badly last night, with all this nonsense making your minds race – and I’ve been the same – I’ve been daydreaming (nightdreaming?) about driving cross-country to Leicester, evading the police at the border, and sitting cross-legged in the town square with a huge banner – “Lockdown Lies – Free Leicester Now” – sitting there in silent protest, refusing to move until the local lockdown ends, in solidarity with my Leicester brothers and sisters.

Some news here from Wales – an article on the msm Wales Online news site: GP calls for schools to be re-opened fully and for lockdown to end

The guy’s name is Dr Rick O’Shea. What a cool name!

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/school-re-opening-wales-coronavirus-18535188

I checked on the BBC Wales news site – no mention of this courageous man’s stand against lockdown madness. Instead the main article is a stark warning: Coronavirus: ‘Don’t rush for a border beer,’ police warn Needless to say – I will be rushing to the border for a beer today.

We had a neighbour round last night – in the house and within coughing distance – she’s lost her mother recently and is having problem with her scum neighbours, and so we’ve ignored all the rules to make sure she has a safety net with us where she can unburden her worries and feel secure. I was illuminating her in lockdown scepticism, and she was worried about what she could do to help stop all this – she felt utterly powerless.

She told us how when she was in mourning for her mother, she sat on the grass in the local park where she and her mother had spent many happy times, and she wept. A Police Support Officer came up to her (“she looked about 12, she did”) and callously told her to get up and move on “You’re not allowed to rest – you can only be out if you’re exercising.”
Disgraceful. Particularly as the PCSO was too cowardly to break up the gathering of Polish families on the other side of the park (good for them for having a picnic – and see how there’s safety in numbers?).

I told her that us being together and talking indoors was a start – small acts of civil disobedience. And these small acts will cascade into open acts of defiance as we grow in confidence – and our public acts of defiance will inspire others to join us – and those who seek to control us are rendered powerless. She smiled at this – it gave her courage, it gave her hope.

Anyway, toodle pip for now, me lovelies! And thanks for helping to keep me sane for the past three months. You’re all amazing.

D.

41472 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #285 of 729 🔗

When this nonsense is done – that’s if it’s ever done – we can all look back on those little acts of civil disobedience with satisfaction. But you should have seen the looks I had the other day when I refused to use the hand sanitiser when going into a bank.

Well done with your neighbour, I would have done exactly the same. It’s far more important to be human being than a ‘good citizen’.

The sad thing is though, does Leicester actually want to be freed?

41716 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, #286 of 729 🔗

Can’t be having dirty money, eh?

41714 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, #287 of 729 🔗

So are you! Stay amazing!
As for that little s..t of a policewoman, ‘callous’ is evidently written on her shrivelled little heart.

41232 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #288 of 729 🔗

An in-depth look into the facts and figures behind the decision.

Leicester Lockdown Mystery:

https://in-this-together.com/leicester-lockdown-mystery/

41525 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, #289 of 729 🔗

That’s an excellent analysis and should be sent to every town council!

41234 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #290 of 729 🔗

More than 8 in 10 people would back a second lockdown….I see the link is to some Sky article….explains a lot…

41256 ▶▶ IanE, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #291 of 729 🔗

Of course it depends how the question was asked (and who was asked). e.g. “Supposing we get a massive second wave of covid and the virus has mutated to much higher infectivity and has evolved towards ebola-like symptoms with 75% mortality, would you support a second lockdown?”

41235 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #292 of 729 🔗

Sunak thinks that going to eat out is our patriotic duty:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/eat-out-to-help-out-rishi-sunak-pleads-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-29ck7z7dg

And this is me telling him to stick it where the sun don’t shine:

Sorry Rishi but yet again you’re not addressing the elephant in the room here which is social, I mean, antisocial distancing. This means that restaurants are forced to operate way below capacity and spend loads of money (of which they don’t really have) on complying with the government’s pointless diktats which will turn dining out like shopping as it is now into a miserable and joyless experience.

If you seriously want the economy to get going again then you should use all your power and skills to persuade Johnson and your very own pair of clowns – Whitty and Vallance to drop these insane regulations and allow all businesses to operate as normal, meaning before 23 March of this year.

Until then whilst restaurants treat me as a Biblical leper, I will be boycotting them and sticking to deliveries and takeaways.

41240 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #293 of 729 🔗

But how do we get him and the rest to listen?

No-one answers or responds when you use the contact pages for Government or MPs except for an occasional “thank you, contact me again and i’ll ignore that as well” message or a generic pile of crap full of buzzwords and phrases from some central government stockpile.

41250 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #294 of 729 🔗

I’ve sent 4 emails to my MP, Tory, & only received the usual auto generated reply. It really is not good enough.

41261 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to smileymiley, 7, #295 of 729 🔗

I wrote to my MP ages ago. I got NO reply. Mrs 2-6 got a reply from her and both letters would have arrived at her lair at the same time. I guess mine was just too shocking and offended her too much to reply to.
I have utter contempt for that MP and all the rest of them. All of them. A total bunch of charlies.

41531 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, #296 of 729 🔗

Charlies? At £85,000 per annum to do SFA, they sound pretty smart to me!

41251 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #297 of 729 🔗

That’s a good question. My local MP has ignored my emails, funny how I’ve had better track record of responses from private companies and institutions.

I sometimes think that strikes and rioting are the only solutions. If businesses decided to basically say they’re not following the regulations and ceased trading until the government caves in that might do it. But who will be brave enough to do that?

41532 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, #298 of 729 🔗

Local newspaper willing to point out that the MPs are ignoring their constituents?

41607 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #299 of 729 🔗

No local newspaper in our area sadly.

41267 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #300 of 729 🔗

Social distancing and PPE use will continue Until a vaccine is found or a better cure is discovered, so says a letter from my local council to Mrs 2-6

41271 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, 3, #301 of 729 🔗

And what is their reply to when local businesses finally close and the high street becomes as ghost town?

41279 ▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #302 of 729 🔗

It is now obvious that nobody in a position of power locally or nationally gives a shit about jobs or businesses.They will literally muzzle the country to death.

41286 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rick, 4, #303 of 729 🔗

I’m getting that impression as well. The opposition have been useless too.

41534 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #304 of 729 🔗

Worse than useless. They’ve been actively driving much of the holdup.

41470 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #305 of 729 🔗

We’ve got a table booked at our favourite small village restaurant next Wednesday and so have our friends.I have spoken to the owner and he says everything will be pretty normal,but doubts are starting to nag at me.
We have being going there nearly every week for ten years,it is a family run business and they are lovely people and I really want to support them but if the place has been overwhelmed by the new abnormal it could be our last visit until the ‘normal’ normal returns,which I increasingly fear maybe a very long time if at all.

41605 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, #306 of 729 🔗

Fingers crossed that you’ll enjoy the experience but agree it could be the last visit for awhile.

Mr Bart and I have booked afternoon tea next Saturday as they were doing a BOGOF offer and we thought it would make a delayed birthday celebration for both of us. We’re dreading receiving any email that would make it less of an experience and more of an ordeal.

41236 james, replying to james, 17, #307 of 729 🔗

Anecdotally a young doctor couple viewed my house around 4 weeks ago not long after restrictions lifted. Both BAME and one heavily pregnant. Neither seemed concerned about virus, no PPE, touching door handles, not standing ridiculously far away. I think these doctors are more clued up about the true risks but are gagged or have to tow the line. After all you’d have to be an idiot not to see how low risk this is and doctors aren’t stupid.

41247 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to james, 11, #308 of 729 🔗

Neighbours – a couple, both doctors, one very senior – party a few weeks ago with a group of other doctor friends and their families. Agree, doctors are not stupid, and unlike politicians I trust their judgment in this case.

41269 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to james, 1, #309 of 729 🔗

I can only conclude the all medical people ARE brainwashed idiots.

41238 Margaret, 8, #310 of 729 🔗

Like the fellow sceptic holidaying in Salzburg, I’ve just booked a dental appointment in Spain, when we go there later this month, in order to have a post and crown fitted. I never thought that I would have to become a medical tourist but my husband had the same treatment there last year and it turned out to be far better (and far cheaper) than he could have got here.
On another issue, I’ve just had a reply from the holiday company in response to my questions about mask wearing for long periods at airports and on planes, asking if there are any exemptions and whether they had done a risk assessment. They say they are in discussions with the government and industry chiefs and will let me know as soon as anything has been decided. They start flying again on 15th July-I hope they come to a decision very soon!

41243 smileymiley, 2, #311 of 729 🔗

https://twitter.com/InProportion2/status/1279316514655666176?s=19

Numbers vastly over estimated in Ireland! Just like here eh?

41255 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #312 of 729 🔗

Track and trace and vaccines only voluntary BUT if you don’t have them you will have a miserable existence not “voluntary” is all a bit misleading to say the least.

Both videos have some of the same slides and graphics so must be linked somehow.

https://beforeitsnews.com/prophecy/2020/06/a-women-gets-her-contact-tracer-certificates-and-tells-all-you-are-going-to-be-freaked-out-by-the-end-of-this-video-2511778.html – explains how India are using the app for just about everyone and everything everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbbiOVSxXYI

Coming soon here and everywhere if Covipass, ID2020 etc gets their way.

41444 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #313 of 729 🔗

I think we should be downloading and handing out copies of this, with regard to vaccines: https://www.anhinternational.org/resources/documents/uk-vaccine-transparency-manifesto/ Need to get in before the MSM start talking up vaccines in earnest..

41258 grammarschoolman, replying to grammarschoolman, -2, #314 of 729 🔗

So thanks, Toby, for taking down my comment about David Starkey.

Free speech only when it suits you, eh?

41260 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to grammarschoolman, 1, #315 of 729 🔗

There is one up above, where you wonder whether the FSU will help him..?

41263 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Barney McGrew, #316 of 729 🔗

Yep, it is still there

41297 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to grammarschoolman, #317 of 729 🔗

From where did your comment go missing? From this comments thread?

41371 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to grammarschoolman, #318 of 729 🔗

Still there.

41262 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #319 of 729 🔗

Qatar Airways makes face masks, shields mandatory on flights:

https://thedawnnews.com/2020/07/03/face-shields-and-face-masks-now-mandatory-on-qatar-airways/

Just when you thought flying couldn’t get any worse!

41272 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, 5, #320 of 729 🔗

Hope they have loads of money to spare when someone takes then to court when a passenger becomes ill or passes out due to that insane policy.

41277 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #321 of 729 🔗

Shame you can’t take paintball guns on a flight, could be good fun!

I note only in ‘economy’ also.

41296 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 5, #322 of 729 🔗

If it is only in economy then it is NOT for health reasons…

41276 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 7, #323 of 729 🔗

Surely making passengers wear masks and face shields would compromise passenger safety in a crash greatly hindering the ability of passengers to escape the aircraft or if the cabin was de-pressurised greatly hindering the ability to wear an Oxygen mask.

I have no idea why the FAA or the CAA have allowed this to happen. Aircraft safety usually over-rides anything else.

41292 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, 7, #324 of 729 🔗

I think all common sense has gone out of the window with this virus. That’s a good point you’ve raised and I’ve noticed that no-one who supports this muzzle policy has ever replied to the issue of masks being an immunity suppresant and forces people to constantly breathe in their own CO2 over and over.

41446 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Two-Six, 4, #325 of 729 🔗

I don’t like air travel at the best of times,it’s always pretty miserable and to have to wear a mask aswell,no chance.
That’s an excellent point about depressurisation,imagine someone who is asleep and wakes to find pandemonium with oxygen masks falling from above and they struggle to get their muzzle off and put the oxygen one on.I could also imagine people wearing the oxygen ones over the face masks.
I know from experience that in panic situations simple tasks can become stupidly difficult

41537 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #326 of 729 🔗

Given that air passengers already breathe oxygen-reduced air, how can this possibly be a safety precaution?

41265 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 12, #327 of 729 🔗

A picture says a thousand words. Your comments please…

41274 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to RDawg, 3, #328 of 729 🔗

Careful, people may use that as evidence to argue the lockdown worked!

I have no doubt that it would have looked even flatter without lockdown and if accurately recorded deaths from not with. Would be interesting to see similar graph where only Covid listed on dc.

41280 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 4, #329 of 729 🔗

Try this one:
The dotted line is when the lockdown started

41282 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, 6, #330 of 729 🔗

The UKColumn guys have been doing great work and that graph is very telling. The potential lockdown deaths are criminal to say the least.

41283 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 3, #331 of 729 🔗

Yep, mass murder really.

41483 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 3, #332 of 729 🔗

The uk column guys went arounf thr world by graph. Popping on the date of lockdown. The relationship between lock down beginning and death rates increasing is a pattern that repeats.

UK Column have been outstanding.

41538 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, #333 of 729 🔗

NB, the red bit is non-covid deaths!

41383 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to RDawg, 2, #334 of 729 🔗

Peak on 8th April before the Great Incarceration from 24th March could have had any effect.

41268 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #335 of 729 🔗

Public inquiry any time soon? The state broadcaster will certainly not be calling for one before 03 November 2020, the U.S. Presidential election date; far too much available in the U.S. public affairs trough until then:

‘Bloomberg’s presidential campaign was defined by its expansive, millions-at-a-time ad buys in media markets across the country. Over the course of his four-month run, he spent more than a half billion dollars on TV, radio and digital ads that both lauded his record as mayor of New York and pushed messages universally popular with Democratic voters like health care, climate change and education.

Bloomberg endorsed Joe Biden when he dropped out, calling Biden “the candidate with the best shot” at defeating Donald Trump in a general election. The move immediately prompted questions about whether the former vice president would inherit Bloomberg’s trove of money and army of staffers stationed across the country, though Bloomberg representatives maintain that no agreements have been brokered between the two campaigns.

At its peak, Bloomberg’s staff included more than 2,000 people nationwide and 400 people at his New York headquarters. Bloomberg himself has since confirmed that every person who worked for his massive campaign will be paid into the summer or through November .’

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/05/michael-bloomberg-releases-trump-ad-122380

This entire global debacle may have resulted from quite staggering levels of incompetence, leaders so hopeless any conspiracy as far beyond them as the running of the proverbial whelk stall, but there is definitely an agenda at the heart of the nonsense spouted by our state broadcaster and others, and that global media (particularly China) ‘Get Trump’ agenda will not end until 03 Nov. 2020.

41356 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, #336 of 729 🔗

And covid 19 seems to be working for the ‘Get Trump’ groupthink broadcasters alliance:

Fifty-seven percent of registered voters in the June 22-23 survey said they do not approve of Trump’s handling of COVID-19, the highest number recorded in the poll since it began asking the question in early-to-mid March.’

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/505465-poll-record-number-of-voter-disapprove-of-trumps-handling-of

41434 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #337 of 729 🔗

A naive, forlorn idea here perhaps, but might there be strong support for a true People’s Inquiry across the general public, especially after such an extraordinary display of ruination.

With so much propaganda, business and scientific evidence available could the people simply bypass the a Government appointed independent stooge setting up an inquiry with favourable limits. To sst a standard of inquiry for the government to match when it does get round to its C19 death inquiry.

A People’s Inquiry might not have ability to dig into unreleased evidence or get people to appear before it, but it can invite them publicly. Certainly it can hear from experts in fields and present findings. Publishing would be simple.

I am sure every commenter knows more about such a thing and why not. Financing being one why not.

41275 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #338 of 729 🔗

Scottish Masks. What’s the official point? Are we protecting the NHS or what?

41278 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 14, #339 of 729 🔗

No point, coercive control and most people in Scotland are falling for it. Personally I’m not and never will.

41287 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 9, #340 of 729 🔗

I agree Steven.

I’m not going to be falling for it either and actively doing what I can to raise awareness. But genuinely – what is the official reasoning? I noticed a vacant space in their narrative – their reason given to the people.

I am well aware this is about control, destabilisation and behavioural science.

41291 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 8, #341 of 729 🔗

I think also-based on my experience-that it’s about demoralisation: we’ll become so cowed and despondent that ultimately we’ll become more tractable and compliant.
Except for the awkward squad like us!

41299 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 6, #342 of 729 🔗

Again I agree entirely.

The message of ‘why’ has not reached us. I believe it is a sign of behaviour nudge that sturgeon did not issue a clear ‘you are going to mask up and here is why’. Is it to save the NHS, save the economy – she killed that already, or what?

None of her measures have sound scentific understanding behind them. SAGE did not advise 2 metres yet there she is keeping us at 2m while seeking new studies about the matter. Precautionary Principle doesn’t wash because we know masks reduce 02 in blood and increase C02.

That we can dissent from her lunaticking is separate from the given reason for her action whatever that is.

41303 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 8, #343 of 729 🔗

Being a confirmed cynic Basics, I think she’s spinning all this nonsense to score points and thus engender yet more division.
Just recently, while pontificating about something or other-(I switch off when she starts)- she used the chosen SNP fall back phrase-‘I won’t be dragged into…’

They use this one constantly when on their Brexit -bashing marathons.

So, I think the real reason, is to show up Wicked Westminster while putting herself on a Covid-crushing pedestal ,all the while continuing to demand more dosh from said Wicked Westminster.

At the risk of repeating myself, this puts The Mad Hatter’s Tea Party in the shade.

41404 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 4, #344 of 729 🔗

Thank you all for input on this.

Essentially it is Sturgeon playing Simon Says… . No reason.

One guy spoke to me in broken English, “Why they let people come fly here no quarantine and now they want us wear madk? Is crazy. ” He added they wanted it spread.

41423 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, #345 of 729 🔗

It was good of you to meet Manuel off the plane, Basil, (sorry, Basics), somehow I feel you have a great future together down in Torquay.

41436 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bruno, 1, #346 of 729 🔗

Que?

41451 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, #347 of 729 🔗

Meanwhile, in that joyous life where there were more than 12 episodes, Connie has found out that Sybil’s real name was Karen…and Basil was probably right out there with Annie, wielding the secateurs. Hoping that the latter, our resident linguist, is going to get in among the French enquiry website?

41710 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bruno, #348 of 729 🔗

Give me the link and I will get in there.

41307 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 4, #349 of 729 🔗

The only reasoning is that it’s safer than not wearing a mask. 2m distancing is safer than 1m distancing.

Even if a person is zero risk to anybody it’s still safer. That’s the logic and reasoning.

It’s safest to be dead but we haven’t got to that level yet.

41327 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to Basics, 4, #350 of 729 🔗

It’s a badge of blind loyalty to the great leader who must be obeyed,
the execrable Nicola Sturgeon.

41343 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Guirme, 2, #351 of 729 🔗

Why doesn’t she set an example by wearing a mask when she’s at the podium, blasting out hot infectious air and faking emotion?

41335 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to Basics, 10, #352 of 729 🔗

According to a written reply to my email from our local SNP MP it is because “we are on a knife edge and at high risk of a resurgence in infection rates” He claims that they are following “the best interpretation of the science”.

Pity that the rest of Europe got the science so wrong and are now having to endure freedom!

41362 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Guirme, 6, #353 of 729 🔗

I’m surprised that Sweden have survived living on their knife edge for so long. It must be pure luck that their death rate hasn’t skyrocketed. The death numbers (when they happened) have been under 10 each day for about a week now.

41399 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Guirme, 1, #354 of 729 🔗

Thank you Guirme. So they admit, in not so many words, to having a good dither while on a knife’s edge. Good a place as any I suppose. A weeks wait on a knife edge. Hahahahaha! You (not you dear Guirme) you fucking fools.

My continued conversations with all and sundry about this shows me there is only the loosest of support and understanding by folk prepared to go along with it. Just by talking in basic Basics language people release there confusion..”Do you know, I did think that…” others are onto ‘the leaders’ alresdy.

41411 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Guirme, 1, #355 of 729 🔗

*He claims that they are following “the best interpretation of the science”.*

I admit that slipped passed me on first reading. So they have something concluding the best and worst of science – and this is their best.

Please can we see the worst interpretation.

41545 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Guirme, #356 of 729 🔗

Whoever is interpreting the science for them has clearly been partaking of the idiot juice.

41459 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 10, #357 of 729 🔗

I’ve been thinking about this for the last few days (i posted yesterday about my trip to Morrisons), to add some background I moved to Edinburgh from London 2 years ago (my fiancee is a Fifer) so I have no prior experience and no real political affiliation. I do however think I have a good grasp of right and wrong and this whole charade UK and Scottish wide is wrong. It upsets me to think that in the last 100 days all of our freedom of choice has been completely removed and I’m genuinely fearful that social distancing and mask wearing will soon be the norm as the complete MSM and social media propaganda machine will completely forget about how it was 3 months ago, 3 months!!! not 3 years or 30 years!. It angered me yesterday seeing people walking around the supermarket wearing masks, 3 months ago if I saw someone wearing a mask walking into a supermarket or a bank I would assume it is about to be robbed!! The thought of going back next week is keeping me awake at night, I will not be wearing a mask and if I have to eat soup and bread for a week I will. My friends and family can’t or are refusing to listen to me or even speak about it as I think if they ignore the elephant in the room it will disappear. I hope I’m being paranoid and overthinking things but as I said to her indoors it is the thin end of the wedge and when I said I can foresee us having our wedding (October 2021) wearing a mask and be walking around on our summer holiday wearing a mask she looks at me like I’m a crack pot.

Sorry, I’m having a rant, this probably isn’t the best place for it (I’m thinking of writing a diary to vent my anger as bottling it up isn’t doing me any good).

I’m struggling to see an end point to all of this.

41516 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 2, #358 of 729 🔗

They used to say survive two weeks on a tandem touring holiday and couples can survive anything. Now you could say the same thing about three months house arrest.

Focus on the human things that matter, a cup of tea. Everything else is out to distract you and drain your spirit.

With an eye on the important things they can’t ever break you.

41711 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, #359 of 729 🔗

Rants are allowed here. Everybody needs one from time to time.
Be strong! Be angry!

41285 Basics, 15, #360 of 729 🔗

Thank you Dr Q.

We all need people like you.

41288 Emma, replying to Emma, 24, #361 of 729 🔗

Here in Hereford we have been warned by the chief (still in post after presiding over two ‘requires improvement’ CQC reports) at our hospital trust that they are unlikely to get back to where we were on waiting times for four years, and the hospital will only be able to work at around 40% capacity.They are claiming that between patients, consulting rooms will need to be deep cleaned with a chemical which takes 20 minutes to kill the virus.

During lockdown I have been visiting a friend once a week for a sneaky drink at her house. She lives next door to an orthopaedic consultant. Throughout lockdown, he has been paid to stay at home with nothing to do, only on call for trauma patients a couple of days a week.Last week, he carried out his first elective surgery since lockdown began. It was done at the local Nuffield hospital, which the NHS is still paying to use, and the place was otherwise deserted.Our county has seen fewer than 60 deaths, none since 21st June, and we are currently on around 740 ‘cases’ since the oh so reliable pillar 2 tests were included.

Shocking waste of money and skill.

41295 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Emma, 3, #362 of 729 🔗

That’s just awful & so, so wrong 😡

41321 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Emma, 5, #363 of 729 🔗

Imagine how much damage those chemicals will do to our health, especially those with lung issues such as asthma.

So many other efficient (immediate), non-chemical and modern solutions such as ultraviolet light and ozone to clean rooms, if you must.

41455 ▶▶▶ Emma, replying to Victoria, 1, #364 of 729 🔗

A quick google shows isopropylalcohol does the job in a few seconds. My impression was that they were trying to prep us for future poor service, using Covid as an excuse.

41289 Albie, 6, #365 of 729 🔗

It was good to read in the previous LS article about Matthew Parris admitting his previous pro- lockdown views had changed based on evidence over the past few weeks. Not all pro-lockdowners are as open minded as him though. The bedwetting ilk for example, there is just no talking to them in my experience. Graphs and data mean nothing to them. What they have heard via sound bites and slogans parrotted by the MSM plus completely one-sided reports has completely paralysed them with fear. Then, there are your more stubborn pro-lockdowner, the type of person who will never ever change their view regardless of evidence presented. They will never publically admit they were wrong and just kick in their heels even more, praying the day’s data shows an uptick in infections and deaths.

41301 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 56, #367 of 729 🔗

Note to all journalists and news editors:

When a person finds out that their employer’s business is about to go under, the first thing they do is cut all unnecessary expenses. Probably top of the list is newspaper and magazine subscriptions. That’s what I’m doing at the moment.

This process is really just getting going. You don’t know it yet, but your lunatic fear mongering has probably lost you your job, your security, your self-esteem, all starting in a few months’ time.

What you did, was to spin up a sensational narrative reinforced with virtue signalling, stoking up fear, creating positive public approval for a weak government which responded by continually ramping up its lunatic policies. In this case, you thought that ‘holding the government to account’ meant sniping about testing targets or ministers’ haircuts, and you utterly, completely failed to see the bigger picture. You couldn’t get past the phrase ‘herd immunity’ without trying to find someone to discredit it, and from then on, our course was set.

Even now you are doing your best to hype up the Leicester lockdown which to any critical thinker is obviously a theatrical response to a fake spike. Even today, you are doing your best to stoke up fear about the opening up of some businesses in the UK, even though they will all fail because of the ‘social distancing’ you champion. Even now, you are attempting to whip up a climate of disapproval for anyone who chooses not to wear a mask.

You have destroyed your own life, but you don’t know it yet.

41308 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #368 of 729 🔗

Well said!

41311 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #369 of 729 🔗

Hear, hear! They will reap what they sow.

41326 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #370 of 729 🔗

Brilliant comment. Thank goodness that there are some rational people out there.

41340 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #371 of 729 🔗

excellent – that ones getting framed

41345 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #372 of 729 🔗

B pravo. You are dead right: when the cash dwindles, the papers and magazines are the first to go.

41390 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #373 of 729 🔗

Excellent.

41481 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #374 of 729 🔗

The media have shot themselves in the foot by biting the hands that feed them. The newspapers have supported a lockdown which has shut down vast sections of the economy and if firms can’t operate they will not spend money on advertising. Surely the media must have lost of advertising revenue. For instance, the Sunday Mirror has a section with adverts for concerts and UK hotels. As concerts have been cancelled and hotels have gone over three months not being able to operate, the paper must have lost a lot of advertising revenue. If people loose their jobs, people will no longer buy newspapers

41535 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to ianric, #375 of 729 🔗

Newspapers are making mega bucks from the Government at this stage – are they being paid off not to question?

Newspaper industry partners with Government on Covid-19 campaign
“Hundreds of newspapers across the country will be running an identical cover wrap and homepage takeover as part of a new Covid-19 advertising campaign.”
https://www.prolificnorth.co.uk/news/coronavirus/2020/04/newspaper-industry-partners-government-covid-19-campaign

https://www.mailmetromedia.co.uk/news/uk-government-partnership-sees-record-breaking-recall-effectiveness/

41657 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Victoria, 1, #376 of 729 🔗

Yes they are.

41780 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Victoria, #377 of 729 🔗

The media have slavishly supported coronavirus is the new black death and there is no alternative to lockdown line except for exceptions like Peter Hitchens. I wonder how much governments have paid the media and has this compensated for lost advertising revenue. Could the government get away with lockdown without the slavish support of the media.

41494 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #378 of 729 🔗

If anyone has a Telegraph or other subscription, they should post the above in the comments section.

41501 ▶▶ Panda, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #379 of 729 🔗

Top comment. I’m making sure I don’t financially support any of these media outlets that have contributed to this ridiculous hysteria.

41306 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 11, #380 of 729 🔗

Have just read the government rules for how we’re to expected to behave this weekend. At the end of the article it says, “Tell us how you’ll be enjoying your new freedoms at the weekend”.

I suppose they’re not looking for the answer “By breaking the law”?

41325 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Mike Smith, 17, #381 of 729 🔗

There is just so much wrong with that phrase: ‘Enjoying your new freedoms.’ Such a reproachful tone. Like we should be genuflect towards our elders and be grateful for the tiny scraps they’re throwing us, like we’re little children who will have our ‘freedoms’ revoked if we dare misbehave.

‘New freedoms’. You mean the freedoms we have been enjoying for hundreds of years, the freedoms our parents and grandparents fought for, which we now take for granted. That’s probably part of the reason why our elected politicians think it’s OK to revoke them without suitable justification, by ministerial fiat.

41346 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Poppy, 10, #382 of 729 🔗

Big Brother still with us after all these years.

Where is Magna Carta when we need it?

41370 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to wendyk, 4, #383 of 729 🔗

Did she die in vain?

41418 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to wendyk, 1, #384 of 729 🔗

Magna Carta applied to the aristos.

41709 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, #385 of 729 🔗

Nay, ’twas a Good Thing for everyone ( except the Common People).

41435 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to wendyk, 4, #386 of 729 🔗
41468 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Carrie, 3, #387 of 729 🔗

Sounds promising. Not religious myself but every little helps.

41394 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 8, #388 of 729 🔗

I agree.

New freedoms is the slight of hand showing trickery.

It could have been expected to be said ‘regaining your freedoms’ or whatever is said about a convicts release. New freedoms, i’ve no need of any such like thanks. It is not for servants of the people to issue new freedoms.

41368 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mike Smith, 15, #389 of 729 🔗

This is what I wrote on back of ‘NHS Test and Trace’ form at ‘spoons after breakfast.

‘Well done for reopening and carrying on. Comment below for HMG if anybody looks at this form again.

This ritual will not cover up HMG’s responsibility for the catastrophe you have caused by panicking and being ignorant of science. Clearing hospitals and seeding infection into nursing homes. 100 days incarceration of the young fit and well. Preventing treatment of serious illnesses. Preventing solace for the dying. Denying education with the poorest worst damaged. Crashing the economy because you couldn’t admit your catastrophic error.’

41309 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #390 of 729 🔗

Scary stuff guys in Australia – de facto house arrest in parts of Melbourne:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8489187/Victoria-records-108-new-coronavirus-infections-second-largest-spike-ever.html

This is the problem with both emergency powers and devolution of those powers to local authorities. It was what Prof Ashton was pushing for from the outset (his aggressive and shouty appearance on Question Time), with others such as Profs Michie and Sridhar trumpeting too. Do we need any more proof that this is a conspiracy?

41491 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #391 of 729 🔗

Are they going to barricade the residents in their homes, and let them starve if they don’t have enough food at home, just like the Chinese did?
And having positive test results doesn’t mean deaths or even hospitalisations. Are they making any distinction between any of those?

41493 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lms23, 1, #392 of 729 🔗

“The close confines and the shared community spaces within these large apartment blocks means this virus can spread like wildfire.”

Then it might be a good idea not to have peoples left crammed in those housing blocks, which are pretty ugly, btw, in the first place. Might it be to do with the increa in population via immigration over recent decades?
The blocks look like the ones on the outskirts of St.Petersburg. Soulless and ugly, favoured by socialists everywhere.

41312 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #393 of 729 🔗

‘We cannot in good conscience open the pub’
 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53271605

…the Tollington’s manager, Martin Whelan, posted a message on social media announcing it would stay closed.

From the pub’s Twitter feed:
“We cannot in good conscience open the pub when contracting a deadly virus is still possible under these Guidelines. By the government’s own admission, on average, 1 in 20 people has this virus.”

Not much hope for the economy is there?

41316 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #394 of 729 🔗

I think he’s left a couple of zeros off that figure. It’s more like 1 in 2000, and even then you’ve actually got to catch it.

41353 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #395 of 729 🔗

According to the article above, it’s more like 1 in 100. And they’re asymptomatic.

41389 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Lms23, 3, #396 of 729 🔗

I based 1 in 2000 on a statement saying you’d have to come across 2000 people now before you even stood a chance of catching Covid. It was 1700 just a week ago, gone up now. But whatever the truth, the pub manager is clearly very wrong!

41317 ▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #397 of 729 🔗

At no point, ever, have any official numbers (or any numbers anywhere outside this bloke’s head) suggested that 3.3M people have been infected at any one time. Ever.

What the hell is he talking about?

41318 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to matt, #398 of 729 🔗

I think he is confusing having antibodies with ‘having the the virus’.

41320 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 13, #399 of 729 🔗

I think he’s confusing fact with media-induced panicked fantasy.

Well, if he chooses to drive his own business into the ground even faster and harder than was going to happen anyway, good luck to him. He’s clearly the kind of idiot who deserves to go bankrupt.

41330 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to matt, 3, #400 of 729 🔗

His reasoning may be confused but he may well lose less money staying shut

41344 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to matt, 2, #401 of 729 🔗

I wonder if he has perhaps succumbed to the covid-MSM brain fog and become cognitively challenged?

41384 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 1, #402 of 729 🔗

33.. he’s clearly talking about the magic number!

41329 ▶▶ Rick, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #403 of 729 🔗

Then we should inform him that his power will be cut off, no more deliveries from the supermarket or amazon because those poor workers are being put at risk to keep him alive. Another job for the boarding up company. Getting to the stage where I have no sympathy for these fools.

41341 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Rick, 11, #404 of 729 🔗

This is another absurdity of the lockdown. Some 11 million people were out there working through lockdown, and then mixing in households…so effectively something like 25 million never were in any meaningful lockdown! And the 25 million were then mixing with the rest of us in food shops and supermarkets!!

41333 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #405 of 729 🔗

If he owns the pub then fair enough. If he’s a manager then he should be sacked

41336 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #406 of 729 🔗

I hope his staff find employment elsewhere and if he goes bust he only has himself to blame. He can reflect on his current views when he’s signing on in a few months.

41338 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #407 of 729 🔗

Will we find out he’s a Labour activist later today? That’s normally the way these things go.

41315 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 5, #408 of 729 🔗

Since we’re now living in la-la land,here is a batty idea for the day;
let’s have a homoeopathic vaccine: infinitesimal ,undetectable concentration of Covid bits in purified water-endorsed by various gurus, movers and shakers and vloggers.

Promoted by noisily emotional celebs. What’s not to like?

Feel free to shoot this down sceptics. Once again, I’m doing it to let off steam and relieve the Sturgeon-induced pressure cooker effect!

41328 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to wendyk, 2, #409 of 729 🔗

Gwyneth Paltrow might be interested in backing something like that.

41334 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, #410 of 729 🔗

I was thinking about Gwyneth the other day. Aren’t masks discriminatory against people without ear lobes? Spare a thought for the poor, struggling lobeless of the world, like Gwyneth. It’s OK for people like Biden with his big flappy old man lobes.

41339 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nobody2020, #411 of 729 🔗

Yes I’d thought of her; she would no doubt agree to flog it plus complementary candle for a suitably inflated sum.

41331 ▶▶ assoc, replying to wendyk, 1, #412 of 729 🔗

Maybe Prince Charles took it and that’s why he only got a minor covid infection!

41337 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to assoc, #413 of 729 🔗

Yes, you can’t really knock it when it comes to the Royal Family. The old Queen Mum got past 100 and ER seems to be doing well at 90 plus – still clip clopping up and down stairs in high heels!

41616 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to assoc, 1, #414 of 729 🔗

Without a doubt he would have been treated with homeopathy. So was I.

41381 ▶▶ Julian, replying to wendyk, 3, #415 of 729 🔗

Well, if such a thing meant we could go completely back to normal, I would be tempted. But my reservation is that it would allow us to avoid the issue we need to face sooner or later which is that new viruses will appear, with varying degrees of danger to health, and the reaction to them needs to be proportionate to the risks. Currently we’re at new virus = panic and shut everything down regardless of the danger, every other known risk/cause of death = we live with it. Actually we are getting more risk-averse, but in general there’s still a broad level of leeway allowing people to choose their own risk levels, though this has been eroded by “health & safety” culture – some of which seems to me reasonable and proportionate, a lot not. The healthy and safety culture has been insidious and overall negative, but obviously not as disastrous as the panic over this virus.

41397 ▶▶ IanE, replying to wendyk, 2, #416 of 729 🔗

Personally, I would have more faith (impossible to have less!) in homoeopathy if one were allowed to pay with homoeopathic money (touch wallet and then touch homoeopath)!

41464 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to IanE, #417 of 729 🔗

Complete with anthroposophic interest free credit!!

41614 ▶▶ Bella, replying to wendyk, 1, #418 of 729 🔗

Having used homeopathy with great personal benefit for over 35 years I’ll sit on the sidelines on this one. But yes, you can be a Lockdown sceptic and left wing and use homeopathy (and other therapies) and still have a few brain cells to rub together. I guess we should be careful how we define each other.

41685 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bella, -1, #419 of 729 🔗

Yes I agree, having used a homoeopathic remedy with some limited effect for joint pain.
My original post was not intended to give offence

41342 leamingtonlockdown, replying to leamingtonlockdown, #420 of 729 🔗

Hello all. My daughter is flying into the UK from her grandparents in the US, and we are meant to go to France on holiday three days later. Do you think this is allowed under the new travel rules or will we be sent home from LHR with a £1,000 breaking quarantine fine?

41347 ▶▶ matt, replying to leamingtonlockdown, 5, #421 of 729 🔗

Technically, she should be quarantining for 14 days on arrival from the US, which would exclude flying. Stupidly, she could happily transit through Heathrow for a flight to France without leaving the airport, but not go home and then go back to the airport 3 days later.

Whether anybody would pick up in this as she checks in and boards the flight to France, I couldn’t say. I strongly suspect not.

41354 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to leamingtonlockdown, 1, #422 of 729 🔗

If your home in the UK is locked up and empty – how can anybody check on you

41359 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to leamingtonlockdown, 1, #423 of 729 🔗

I assume she has a UK passport? As Matt says, I doubt it would be checked when boarding from France but you do have to sign a declaration which is available here – https://uk.ambafrance.org/COVID-19-UK-and-French-travel-and-quarantine-measures

If rumbled, in theory you could be charged with falsifying statements but I have no idea what they would do in that instance.

Recent figures state that they are spot checking 1 in 5 ‘quarantines’ in the UK but I somehow doubt that also.

41348 annie, replying to annie, 11, #424 of 729 🔗

Front page of Times: ‘Eat out to help out’ – Sunak.
Page 8 of Times: ‘Pubs are infection hotspots’ – Vallance.

41351 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 9, #425 of 729 🔗

Vallance really needs to learn about immune systems and viral transmission …..

41352 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #426 of 729 🔗

Saw that. See above my reply to Sunak exhorting us to eat out to help out

41349 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 3, #427 of 729 🔗

I have been thinking what could be done to lessen the impact of the BBC’s political credibility in a bid to fight our way out of the nightmare we are living in. I thought perhaps one answer would be forcing them to show health warnings on all their news broadcasts in the same way that has been adopted for cigarette packets. It wouldn’t be easy of course, I am sure there would be resistance from within the organisation, but if it could be done you could have displayed something like:

“Viewing this propaganda may cause anger, resentment, bitterness and may induce nausea”

Then of course being the woke BBC they would add:

“If you have been affected by any of these issues then please contact our help line”.

Following up on the latter should not be attempted as it will reveal that anger, resentment, bitterness and nausea are all in fact symptoms of coronavirus and you will be instantly referred to their track and trace officials or TT as they are now known by the insignia on the collar of their uniforms. You will then be subjected to a midnight visit and forced to ‘self-isolate’ for two weeks. Other countries call this being ‘disappeared’.

At the end of the two weeks in the BBC’s room 101, where you will have been subjected to News 24 broadcasts from 4 different screens in every wall of your cell at ear-splittingly high volumes, your re-education will be complete and you will Love Big Boris and Hate LockdownSceptics, and will endlessly clap the NHS to order with tears running down your cheeks.

And you will be happy again my friends, you will be happy.

All references or similarities to people, events or stories in this missive are purely coincidental.

41357 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Old Bill, 1, #428 of 729 🔗

You’ve overlooked the vast quantities of free Victory gin that were necessary to maintain the effects of the education.

41360 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Cheezilla, #429 of 729 🔗

Well that is why they have reopened the pubs! Though admittedly I haven’t read anything about free booze yet

41350 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 11, #430 of 729 🔗

The evidence void science is quite clear – pleasure causes the virus to spread which will make the immune herd even more immune.
The guidlines are therefore necessary to ensure the minimum fun his had.
It is well known that laughter, singing and joy are good for the mind and immune system – and are therefore bad bad bad!

41377 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 10, #431 of 729 🔗

Smiles too.. let’s mask those.
Free the smile.

41412 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Major Panic, 3, #432 of 729 🔗

Remember Hancock saying that sunbathing was against the rules?

41355 PD, replying to PD, 11, #433 of 729 🔗

If only we had More Critical Thinking and Less Critical Theory in our national response.

41373 ▶▶ Julian, replying to PD, 8, #434 of 729 🔗

Totally agree. Arguably critical thinking is one of the most important life skills anyone can have. Worryingly, as I have said before, I know a fair few people who I have seen employ critical thinking skills very effectively, but who have not applied them to the virus issue. I would like to understand why. I think it’s because the size of the blunder is so gigantic that it doesn’t occur to them that it’s a blunder.

41425 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 4, #435 of 729 🔗

You may well be right there. Diplodocus in the room.

41387 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to PD, 3, #436 of 729 🔗

I wonder if it’s a coincidence that whilst at university I judiciously avoided all that crap and stuck to the oldest literature I could possibly study.
(I did take postmodernism though. In order to argue with it 😂 )

41403 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Farinances, 3, #437 of 729 🔗

The best way to understand postmodernism is via a game of scrabble where any order of letters is valid to make ‘words’. Once all letters are used you can write a paper using the made up words in any order. Sprinkle in a few (colonial) commas and full stops and you are on your way to fame and fortune in academia. Then become an advisor to UK GOV in 2030 who will still be micromanaging the process of sinking a pint at the pub.

41407 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Rick, 4, #438 of 729 🔗

Indeed! People used to call me a ‘snob’ for not engaging (or engaging combatively) with this trash. I was the one with the broad Yorkshire accent whose parents hadn’t paid for my education. LOL.

41462 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Rick, #439 of 729 🔗

You can use this as well; a favourite of mine. Endless post modern intersectional, mind bending pompous claptrap.
Recommended!

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

41358 annie, replying to annie, 23, #440 of 729 🔗

Going past a mini-Tesco’s, saw a vat of hand-skin-stripper under notice ‘Don’t pass it on.’
Now that is psychological warfare of a high order. Not working on the ‘sense of personal risk’, but on the feeling of personal guilt. You have got IT. You are dirty. You are contaminated. You are, as somebody here put it so splendidly, a walking biohazard.

Of course, the sceptic’s reaction is

  1. Fuck off.
  2. If I had IT, which I haven’t, I should be only too keen to pass it on to somebody else and so, presumably, get rid of it.
  3. I shall now pass on, to another shop where they treat you like a human being.
  4. Fuck off.
41365 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 19, #441 of 729 🔗

They still don’t get it do they?

When will these businesses realise that this attitude will mean that people will simply stay away? I boycott Tesco because the queues put me off and the horror stories about them that I’ve read online.

Same with the rest of the high street. Any shop that has the stupid one way system, forces you to sanitise and wear muzzles and generally treat me like crap won’t get my money.

41379 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #442 of 729 🔗

Same here, however much Rishi Sunak pleads with us to go shop and eat out. Actually I think Rishi is the best of a bad bunch and I do think he comes over quite well, but it’s the principle behind it. I won’t give in to “new normal”.

41391 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 6, #443 of 729 🔗

Mr Bart and I have agreed that eating out at the moment is out of the question. Agree that Rishi is the best of a bad bunch and as much as I do miss eating out, I’m not agreeing to this “new normal” hence the boycott.

41490 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #444 of 729 🔗

Unfortunately, the downside to all of us is that many of the restaurants and businesses that existed before March will disappear permanently. That means being stuck at home more, ordering online, not eating out, the bigger corporations doing well, small businesses gone, society destroyed and people controlled. The new normal.

41575 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lms23, 3, #445 of 729 🔗

They will just have to stand up for themselves and revert to the old normal. It’s that or perish. If they prefer to perish, tough.

41636 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 2, #446 of 729 🔗

As a founder member of two local branches of CAMRA, at a time when England’s beer-drinking option was rapidly becoming reduced to Grotny’s Red Barrel only, I can assure you that, unless you want all coffee shops to be Costas and Starbucks and all pubs to be Wetherspoons, you’ll have to hunt out independents who are trying their best to be sane in a mad world and support them to the best of your ability.

41633 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lms23, 3, #447 of 729 🔗

The whole point of boycotting is to pressure the businesses to return to the old normal and hopefully galvanise industry leaders to develop the cojones to lobby the government to end all this insanity. If they don’t then they deserve to die.

41380 ▶▶ Rick, replying to annie, 13, #448 of 729 🔗

Recent positive development at local Lidl (always seem to do minimum required anyway) they started to individually wrap all their in-store self-service baked goods at the start of the madness. Suddenly stopped! They are obviously getting their advice and risk assessments from someone with a sound understanding of the real problem. I suspect this is someone from German head office who is actually looking at some evidence rather than relying on the latest update from a Christmas cracker. Funniest thing is, the muzzle wearers are buying them. They literally have no idea. Beginning to wonder if this is some kind of mass intelligence test to find the most halfwitted person in each country for a new big brother type show. The rules for August being that on a Tuesday and Thursday you have to hop on your left leg whilst outside. Both legs can be used in a Covid emergency only.

41706 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rick, #449 of 729 🔗

They would do it. They would do anything. Cue the Ministry of Silly Wokes.

41363 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 15, #450 of 729 🔗

So ex-Taoiseach Leo Varadkar now saying the Irish numbers were grossly inflated and they were attributing symptoms to Covid without testing.

Much like the UK model then.

Very important to stress here that we only need to have “Covid-19” deaths around the 20,000 for it to be without doubt a bad cold/flu. I suspect it is much much less than that if anything.

41409 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to mhcp, 1, #451 of 729 🔗

I suspect that anything Varadkar says is because he thinks it is in his interest to say it.

41385 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #452 of 729 🔗

Daily Mail: Oxford professor Sunetra Gupta says Australia should embrace herd immunity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8489039/Oxford-professor-Sunetra-Gupta-says-Australia-embrace-herd-immunity.html

41393 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #453 of 729 🔗

New Zealand could usefully be included!

41396 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #454 of 729 🔗

People have already decided that nobody needs to die from this virus and are willing to accept anything done to them to achieve this.

It’s only a temporary inconvenience they were saying only a few months ago. I don’t see anything temporary about all the changes being implemented.

41416 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #455 of 729 🔗

Sadly it in a nutshell.

41392 IanE, 4, #456 of 729 🔗
41405 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 21, #457 of 729 🔗

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-britain-beware-israel-living-the-consequences-of-trying-to-return-to-normal-12020444

Story in Sky News stirring up the fear factor saying we are only a few weeks behind Israel in a second wave.

No. Israel locked down so hard they haven’t even had their first wave yet! It’s a great example of why lockdowns don’t work and you have to open up and face the consequences sometime. Precisely what Professor Giesecke says would happen. Are you watching, New Zealand?

41414 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to CarrieAH, 17, #458 of 729 🔗

This is a sad display of what the narrative is now going to be.
Absolutely no engagement with the idea that lockdowns are pointless.

41424 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Farinances, 12, #459 of 729 🔗

Fear porn aside, this is what depresses me most about the media coverage. That lockdown is a key tool – the only tool and it must be applied. The only thing that makes any difference is how early it’s applied, how ruthlessly it’s enforced and how long it’s maintained. Lockdown works, it’s a good idea. That’s a given.

Depressing.

41440 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 6, #460 of 729 🔗

I’m hoping enough people go on holiday to countries that are back to (the old) normal and come back realising that the UK’s rules are not needed, and that they then rebel..

41431 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #461 of 729 🔗

Sky is also running (every hour since last night), war-zone reporter, Alex Crawford’s, coverage of an ICU in Texas, replete with an old man being intubated under local anaesthetic. Dreadful, and clearly designed to scare us all. Best bit though, is interview with a recovering patient called Gaylord (his first name) – that sent my 20 year-old over the edge in fits of laughter!

41441 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #462 of 729 🔗

Saw that Sky report. Reminded me vividly of the fear porn from northern Italy in March. What happened to that blond female reporter on Sky who reported with grim face day after day in March from Italy about deaths and the dying, Never see her now.

41456 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Gillian, 1, #463 of 729 🔗

If my memory serves me correctly, she was stationed in Barnard Castle after the Dominic Cummings story broke. She is called Sally Lockwood, I think, and she speaks fluent Italian. That said, I though Katerina Vittozzi might have been an obvious choice for the Italian hospital reports, but there again, perhaps she needed ‘down time’ and ‘TLC’ after her stint reporting from the Aussie bush fires at the start of the year (where some locals pointed out Australia had bush fires before climate change became folklore). I think I need to get out more!

41445 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #464 of 729 🔗

Glad to hear the correct response in your household. That Sky piece had a unreal feel about it. Reminded me of BBC Panarama’s Saving Syria’s Children programme of a few years ago.

https://www.ukcolumn.org/insight-saving-syrias-children-worst-case-fake-news

41509 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #465 of 729 🔗

If you and your 20 year old like the name Gaylord you should read the Tales from the Pentecost Family series of books, by Eric Malpass. They are an absolute joy. The main character’s name is Gaylord Pentecost. I think when the first book was published in 1965 there was no irony contained or intended, in the name.

41546 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #466 of 729 🔗

If you have Covid, the worst thing you can do for a patient is to intubate them, most will die because the pressure damages the lungs and fail to get the oxygen absorbed. Have these medics/hospitals not learned a thing?

Perspectives on the Pandemic | The (Undercover) Epicenter Nurse “…. murdering patients by putting them on ventilators”
“patient came in with anxiety, worried got all nervous, that affected his oxygen levels and his was intubated and died. He did not have have Covid”
“self restraints on the majority of patients, tied up in hospital with no family allowed, obviously they will become anxious, agitated that will then affect oxygen levels”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIDsKdeFOmQ&feature=youtu.be

Covid 19 is a vascular and not a respiratory disease
In essence Covid 19 effects a vulnerable endothelium which leads to hyper-coagulability and impaired fibrinolysis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1eH6DYQ1ro&feature=youtu.be

41621 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Victoria, 1, #467 of 729 🔗

Yes, the team of doctors in one of the NY hospitals worked that one out pretty early on. It is yet another instance of failure in the management of the virus which has contributed to some tens of thousands of excess deaths – stay home beyond day 7/8 if symptoms have not subsided to ‘save our NHS’, straight to ICU and intubation before exhausting oxygen saturation plus anti-inflammatories to mitigate the cytokine storm, and finally, sending vulnerable patients back to care homes prior to establishing whether they were infected.

41627 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #468 of 729 🔗

I thought you had to be unconscious to be intubated?

41667 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, #469 of 729 🔗

They drug you to intubate you.
The one patient was a drug user and the hospital drugs did not make him ‘totally unconscious’……

41457 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to CarrieAH, 12, #470 of 729 🔗

It’s interesting how Sweden’s approach is always dubbed controversial when it is in fact pretty much standard procedure. Total lockdowns are experimental at best with dubious moral and ethical implications.

41517 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #471 of 729 🔗

Yes, it’s one of many astonishing things about this whole business that half shutting down a country, something that has never really been tried or thought necessary before, seems to have become orthodoxy, and no-one seems bothered by this, no-one mentions it and no-one seems to ask to see the cost-benefit analysis (that didn’t happen) the govt went through before arriving at this. And we are copying Communist China. a brutal regime that people claim to disapprove of.

41544 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #472 of 729 🔗

Depressing article from Simon Kuper in the FT Weekend Magazine “A conventional social democracy can also mismanage Covid , as Sweden did, bit it’s rarer” You delay lockdown for weeks” How can someone believe this?

41630 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, #473 of 729 🔗

They’re being paid to believe it?

41419 Rick, replying to Rick, 7, #474 of 729 🔗

3.5 How will health and safety regulations be enforced? Where the enforcing authority, such as the Health and Safety Executive or your local authority, identifies employers who are not taking action to comply with the relevant public health legislation and guidance to control public health risks (for example, not completing a new risk assessment taking account the risk of COVID-19, or taking insufficient measures in response), they will consider a range of actions to improve control of workplace risks. This includes giving specific advice to a business, or issuing an improvement notice, which a business must respond to in a fixed time, or a prohibition notice. Failure to comply is a criminal offence, which can lead to fines or imprisonment for up to two years, giving the COVID-secure guidelines indirect legal enforceability.

This is all businesses need to consider. So those with some sense can just add C19 to their risk assessment (easy), if they currently deal with COSHH regs then that covers bio hazards including viruses. HSE and local authorities cannot cope with current guidelines so unlikely to turn up to check. Do the absolute minimum that is proportionate (almost always less than you would think). If they issue you with advice then challenge it or nod and ignore it. They will not want this to go to court because the facts can then be examined.
The last sentence “…indirect legal enforceability.” is nonsense, the law is enforceable not guidance.

41420 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 23, #476 of 729 🔗

This government is corrupt and rotten to the core (and I’m a Tory voter)

41426 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 17, #477 of 729 🔗

I think we need to stop voting for any of the current mainstream parties. For me, they have crossed a red line.

41427 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 7, #478 of 729 🔗

I will simply write “NONE OF THE ABOVE” every election time.

41448 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #479 of 729 🔗

I have decided to do the same. Any political party which supports putting the entire population under house arrest and destroying our economy and society are traitors.

41625 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #480 of 729 🔗

If you don’t make a positive vote, one of the ones on the ballot paper will be elected by default.
So you can’t win by refusing to play. You either vote for the best of a bad bunch – and look where that’s got us – or you create an alternative party to vote for.

41430 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Julian, 4, #481 of 729 🔗

It will only let me vote for this comment once, which is annoying.

41428 ▶▶ Hugh_Manity, replying to Cecil B, 3, #482 of 729 🔗

Unfortunately, that applies to all governments. “If voting made any difference they wouldn’t let us do it.”

41438 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Hugh_Manity, #483 of 729 🔗

Another fine Mark of Twain.

41429 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 9, #484 of 729 🔗

It seems to me that the media scared everyone so much to begin with that it reprogrammed our brains to think in terms of being afraid. The clapping then reinforced that.

It’s evidently very difficult to overturn that sort of programming with rational arguments. Different parts of the brain, perhaps. You need reprogramming, and that means either lots of media stories about how it’s safe after all (which we’re not getting), or else us acting on our own, trusting the rational arguments to act normally. Then the repeated personal experience of that normal behaviour will retrain the brain back to normality.

So people who are scared, and who don’t even know the rational counter-arguments, won’t budge unless and until the media tells them to.

On the same theme, this article is from May but I’ve only just read it. My apologies if it’s already been discussed here. It’s excellent on how fear controls people and how facts don’t matter much:
https://off-guardian.org/2020/05/05/virus-of-mass-destruction/

41469 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Mike Smith, 4, #485 of 729 🔗

That article is an example of how no-one learns from history. Anyone remember WMD? Well that was a conspiracy, and this isn’t? I can’t be certain what the end game is but the manufacture of fear is a conspiracy. I heard Toby on a podcast he was pushing on his last update (I think) saying that this site was attracting conspiracy theorists and that went with the territory but his 35 years of experience told him this was just a massive cock up. WMD wasn’t a massive cock up Toby and I know enough about journalism and research (having occasion to do it myself for a sensitive project) that when you get near the knuckle sometimes you willingly steer yourself away from the real truth because it’s intimidating, and possibly threatening to your welfare. I’m not suggesting that applies to Toby personally, but it has applied to me. If this is just incompetence it has to be the most incompetent act in the history of humanity. Manufacture of fear ‘conspires’ to keep people subjugated. The dynamic running through 1984. The Power of Nightmares is still doing the rounds on YouTube I think.

41480 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 1, #486 of 729 🔗

I’m not much into conspiracy theories myself, though WMD certainly looked like one. It probably is one of the most incompetent acts in the history of humanity. There look to be conspiratorial elements to it. I suppose I don’t believe in conspiracy theories but they often seem far-fetched, but then this whole thing is far-fetched anyway.

Can you summarise what you see as being the main elements of and actors in the conspiracy/conspiracies?

I think the wrongness of the lockdown can easily be established on moral and practical grounds, without resorting to conspiracy theories, which I worry will put people off our cause. But if there is a conspiracy, we ought to know about it.

I’m open to arguments.

41489 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 3, #487 of 729 🔗

There is usually a mix of conspiracy and cock-up, and I think both are at play here. In the wider sense, establishing the order will be the key.

41503 ▶▶▶▶▶ El coronel no tiene quien le escriba, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #488 of 729 🔗

Absolutely no evidence of any conspiracy here.

Cock-up, certainly. Sufficient advances in medicine to change our ethical approach to prolonging the lives of the chronically sick elderly – most definitely. And most importantly a generation of politicians afraid to admit to voters that they don’t have hard or fast answers.

41592 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, 3, #489 of 729 🔗

I can’t tell you about the main actors Julian, because it is too early. Nor the agenda. And that would have been the same answer you would have got in March 2003 about WMD. How many years did Watergate take to rise to the surface? Some of the elements? Well the narrative of control is all over the place: the drive to force everyone to wear masks which was seen to be quite absurd at the peak of this virus in March/April. If you saw someone wear a mask then it would have been an anomaly and likely an Asian person and/or a visitor to this country. I saw one in a hotel I was staying in just before it closed and she was both. The narrative of fear is all over the place; that surely doesn’t need exposition. The complete distortion of facts by MSM (to enhance fear and get people to give up their power and individuality.) The narrative of social control (stand there, keep that distance, don’t touch that) all in the guise of keeping us safe. The narrative of dehumanising us (masks, preventing lovers from meeting, suggesting laughter, singing and even a chat with your hairdresser – things that might bring you pleasure, even joy – are dangerous) and preventing gatherings in the spirit of art and entertainment (both of which can be subversive) because they are not safe when there is very little evidence to suggest that, it is speculation. To bleed you dry of any element in this life which may bring you joy. To make people believe that life is worth living without any joy because at least you are alive.And then you become an automaton, a prole, and 1984 is here and we all love and are grateful to Big Brother for keeping us alive and safe. I think conspiracy theories are too far-fetched as well. So tell me which element in the current scenario would have been considered normal and everyday back in January? Pretty sure a lot of people would have said (maybe you, I don’t know) that’ll never happen. Too far-fetched and dystopian. Sounds like a conspiracy theory. And here we are. And people didn’t notice.

41663 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Bella, 3, #490 of 729 🔗

What strikes me is that coronavirus has become a state religion because coronavirus has many features of a religion :-

* Religions have rituals. Coronavirus has many rituals eg masks, hand sanitizers, anti social distancing, screens.

* Religions often believe in sacrifices. The Mayan religion sacrificed people to appease sun gods. Muslims fast during Ramadan. Catholic priests remain celibate. Under coronavirus people have had to sacrifice jobs, businesses, hobbies, seeing family and friends and holidays to appease coronavirus.

* Religions have sins they forbid eg some religions will not eat certain foods. Under coronavirus a vast array of activities were forbidden and even now there are restrictions what we can do.

* Religions are often puritanical and see pleasure as sin. Under coronavirus a whole range of pleasures taken away from us. For instance, we couldn’t go to pubs and even when they are open there are restrictions in place. There are restrictions what we can do at weddings.

* Religions have saints which are worshipped. Coronavirus encourages people to clap for the NHS.

* Religions believe in punishment/reward. For instance, the Christian religion says we will go to heaven if we are good and hell if we are bad. Coronavirus says we will not catch coronavirus if we follow the religion and catch it if we don’t.

* Religions often attack non believers and regard them as heretics. People who don’t follow the rituals of coronavirus are condemned eg calling people covid idiots who go to beaches and villifying countries such as Sweden who don’t lock down.

* Religions often have a bogeyman eg the Christian faith has Satan. Coronavirus has a deadly virus.

* The Christian faith argues everyone is a sinner. Coronavirus tells we are all sinners as we are potential carriers of a disease.

* Religions make people feel guilty. Coronavirus says that those who don’t follow the coronavirus religion are killers.

41688 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 2, #491 of 729 🔗

Thanks, much appreciated. I agree lots of people including me would have said that’ll never happen.

I suppose what I struggle with is the notion that there’s a grand plan, devised by some group or coalition of groups, secretly, that is now unfolding. But that’s not necessarily the conspiracy you’re talking about, or the only form of conspiracy possible.

Politicians usually like power, and they have certainly taken the opportunity to expand theirs. So that’s sort of normal. I am more surprised by the role of the media. The newspapers just seem to want sensationalist stories. The broadcast media have probably been taken over by people with an agenda, conscious or subconscious.

41612 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #492 of 729 🔗

If there isn’t a conspiracy, why are they dragging their feet so determinedly?

41679 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #493 of 729 🔗

That’s a fair point. I think they are afraid of public opinion, and are looking for a way out that doesn’t mean they have to get involved in unpleasant things like having a grownup discussion on tradeoffs.

41697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Julian, #494 of 729 🔗

But they helped create public opinion, along with the media.

Look at the response of both to the BLM protests versus ordinary people going to the beach, or protesting against the vandalizing of various monuments. One large gathering (mostly violently peaceful), the other bad.

41698 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lms23, #495 of 729 🔗

Easier to terrify people than to convince them not to be afraid anymore.

41670 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Julian, #496 of 729 🔗

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-qIy5JU3QfY

The New World Order Agenda Explained
Published on 29 Jul 2019
How does a New World Order hierarchy control the masses, giving power to an elite few that run the world?

I’m not saying this video is correct, but its an inter perspective, and there were plenty of these on YouTube going back several years. People saw something nasty coming, i.e. the makings of a prison planet. They didn’t see the virus, but it seems that there are some who are taking advantage of it for political purposes.

41611 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 1, #497 of 729 🔗

The initial reaction resulting in the lockdown may or may not have stemmed from mere incompetence but the brainwashing and fearmongering has been undertaken with impressive expertise.

41626 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bella, 7, #498 of 729 🔗

There is a conspiracy. There’s a conspiracy to ensure that nobody realises that the whole thing was a poorly judged cock up on an enormous scale. Much like there was a conspiracy around WMD – a conspiracy to ensure that the public would go along with a war that Blair wanted to happen (because Bush wanted it to happen).

Politicians and political leaders lying to the electorate to protect their own reputations and to further their own careers and ends has been happening since the chief of one village told his people that they were going to raid another village because the sun god was unhappy that the other village worshipped the moon.

All of the rest of this is collateral. Propaganda and behavioural manipulation techniques are more sophisticated than they used to be. The public are being terrified and dehumanised because they can be and because that’s a better outcome than that they learn that they’ve been conned. We have “guidelines” covering our every interaction because the public has been terrified and dehumanised and because the government honestly believes that they won’t start going about their lives unless they are reassured that there are rules in place to keep them safe. To an extent they’re right, because swathes of the population have now lost the ability to make their own risk assessments day-to-day and so they need the government to do it for them.

So yes – there is a conspiracy. The government are conspiring amongst themselves and with their various advisors to try to make sure that they stand a chance of winning the next election, despite having perpetrated the worst cock up in living memory.

41642 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bella, #499 of 729 🔗

More to the point, how is it that so many governments around the world have committed the same inexplicable co** ups, i.e., sending patients from hospitals, without testing for CV19 first, into care homes, to be among the most vulnerable elderly and to spread the virus there?

And in the U.S., it was uncoincidentally Democrats who mandated that, i.e., Gov. Andrew Cuomo of New York, Gov. Phil Murphy of New Jersey, Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, Gov. Gavin Newsom of California, and Gov. Tom Wolf of Pennsylvania.
Our government allowed the same to happen here, despite seeing what had happened in Italy.
In the U.S., 50,000 are estimated to have died in nursing homes from CV19. In the UK it’s at least 20,000.
That takes more than incompetence. It’s either criminally negligent, or deliberate policy. If it didn’t come from the health minister, he should be sacking those that were responsible.

It also strikes me that the numbers who have died from CV19 have been deliberately mixed in with those that just happened to have the virus when they died, such as the man in Colorado who died from a lethal blood alcohol level, but was initially counted as a CV19 death until an outcry against the blatant upward massaging of numbers. A review of the deaths decreased the number in Colorado by 25%.

41689 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lms23, 4, #500 of 729 🔗

It’s very simple – we’re expecting our hospitals to be overwhelmed (because that’s what we’ve seen in Italy) so we need to free up beds. Most beds are taken up by old people. We know that old people suffer worst from this disease and we “know” that this is an awful disease. Therefore, if an old person is not sick, they must not have the virus, so off home they go.

Look – most government responses were informed by other government responses. Italy went into lockdown because the only example they had to work with – absent a testing capacity like Korea’s – was China’s. the rest, including the UK and the US, was just a domino run. Trump was very reluctant about lockdown – and was eviscerated for it in the US and the global press. People were terrified by what they’d seen in social and mainstream media about what had happened elsewhere. Governments would have had to have had balls of steel to stand up to the level of pressure that was coming from the electorate to lock down (well done, Stefan Löfven).

Preparations were made. Bad decisions were made (as they usually are), execution and on the ground interpretation of strategy was mixed and mostly sloppy (as it usually is). People died (as they always do).

41433 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 28, #501 of 729 🔗

My wife and I just had a shared gourmet breakfast in a cafe that opened up the road just before lockdown, we’ve been getting bread and stuff from them to support them during lockdown but they opened up today for the first time and we were the first customers. Apart from two people coming in wearing masks there was no sign of the new abnormal, it made me very happy. I’m hoping there’ll be a massive disconnect between what’s reported in the media about what we should do and what actually happens on the ground! I won’t go to a restaurant that separates me with a Perspex screen. This was a lovely morning and I’m gonna cherish it!

41437 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Moomin, 7, #502 of 729 🔗

Tell your friends about this place and help them get more customers!

41475 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Moomin, 6, #503 of 729 🔗

Out and about in my town this morning there seemed like a massive disconnect, though obviously those who choose to go out and about are less likely to be fearful, pro-lockdown people. We can only hope the human social instinct will be stronger than everything else. I am glad you had a nice breakfast.

41442 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 20, #504 of 729 🔗

We took our puppy for a walk around a nearby loch. The car park – shame on Glasgow City Council – is still closed, so there was a looooong line of cars parked up at the side of the road.

Loads of people out walking, jogging and cycling. We chatted with several other dog walkers, including one millennial-type couple who also had a puppy. No social distancing at all. While we were talking to them a professional dog walker stopped to admire our puppy, got our her phone to show us a photo of her own down, same breed as ours. She handed me her phone.

Lots of people stopped to pet our dog and lingered in conversation with us. It was entirely normal and what you’d expect should you be out with a 15 week old puppy…

Then I remembered the survey that says 80% of the UK would welcome another lockdown. Really?!

41447 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mark H, 2, #505 of 729 🔗

Aaaaw, wish I could see your puppy!
My dog sends wags and hopes you will enjoy many, many more walks together.

41449 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mark H, 10, #506 of 729 🔗

I can’t get my head round closing car parks at areas of excercise (or any other), we don’t all arrive and leave at the exact same time, and we are all capable of common courtesy if their is a clash and the bollocks was true

Sounds like puppies may be the secret to entising the bedwetters out of hiding

41471 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, 4, #507 of 729 🔗

Consider self-help. No use if padlocks around gates, but tape can be cut and closed signs shifted.
Don’t get caught, of course. Act while unobserved. Then act innocent. Park. So will everybody else. Sign? What sign?

41450 ▶▶ Emma, replying to Mark H, 5, #508 of 729 🔗

I’m finding the same with dog walkers – nobody bothers about the anti-social distancing.

41485 ▶▶ Stephen McMurray, replying to Mark H, 8, #509 of 729 🔗

The surveys are complete rubbish. Belfast was packed a few days ago, even before the pubs opened. Nobody was observing social distancing outside and only about 1% had face masks.

They have either made up the survey or rigged it. So maybe they only asked seriously ill people or the questions was worded like ‘Now that lockdown has proven to work and with the experts saying a second more deadly wave is going to devastate the country would you rather have a lockdown or no mitigating measures at all resulting in a massive death toll which could include members of your own family.’

Never believe surveys. They are always worded to get the answer they want. It’s a bit like a Question Time debate where they rig the question so you can only get the answer they desire. So obviously, the BBC being ultra left would maybe ask a questions such as ‘ As man made climate change is now the biggest threat to the planet, how do we deal with it?’

Obviously if you don’t believe in man made climate change or that it is not the biggest threat, you have no part in the conversation. They they say 90% of our audience agree that we should reduce emissions to net zero by 2025. It is all a con.

41463 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 4, #510 of 729 🔗

I’v just watched sky news reporting on a hospital in Houston Texas. No violins playing like the reports on Italian hospitals in March. The doctor and staff were very stressed as there were many patientst needing oxygen treetment, this was clearly ‘the front line’ and they were opening another covid wing. It looked like they needed more support and they were clearly working very hard. They have discovered a new concoction of drugs including vitamins and anticoagulants that were giving a 94% success rate (good news) – and they didn’t seem to be using incubators much.
Sounds like they are not getting overwhelmed.
This is obviously reporting on the worst aspects of the virus spreading through a population. It would be interesting to get the actual (non cherry picked) stats there. They do seem to have more younger people needing oxygen treetment – is this local diet, consumption of pharma products, etc.?
Hopefully they will be shielding their nursing homes, and taking some sensible mitigation measures without actually going into lockdown

41563 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Major Panic, #511 of 729 🔗

The BBC called it “Heading to pure Hell.”
So not in any way scaremongering or anything.

41578 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Lms23, #512 of 729 🔗

Well it’s not the same without a bit if irrational hysteria

41467 annie, replying to annie, 18, #513 of 729 🔗

Letter in today’s Times from a QC. Yes, a QC. Top of the legal profession. Weigher of evidence and dissector of arguments.
He castigates ‘selfish, blinkered and self-important judges’ who insist that barristers and solicitors actually turn up in court (as the judges do), instead of playing with computers at home.
QC refuses to turn up. ‘My health and that of those close to me is too important to be treated so cavalierly.’
With people like that in the justice system, the law is not an ass, it’s a poisonous jellyfish.
Pardon me while I go vomit.

41569 ▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, 3, #514 of 729 🔗

He/she has a duty. Is that a dirty word now? (Comes from ‘duerte’: ‘that which ought to be done’ OR ‘the force of that which is morally right’. I suppose it is – a dirty word that is – which is why the first people to run for the hills when all this began were doctors in GP practices, dentists and the bloody church. Someone tell the church about duty. (In case someone picks me up on GPs: I know they stayed open but impossible to get in the surgery or get an appointment in most cases I know.)

41701 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella, 1, #515 of 729 🔗

And, of course, the health of key workers is not valuable to him.

41473 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #516 of 729 🔗

Spain locks down an area near Barcelona with 400,000 people after spike in coronavirus cases just as Britons prepare to head out there on long-awaited summer holidays
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8489421/Spain-locks-area-200-000-people-spike-coronavirus-cases.html

Every country is “managing” the virus whilst Sweden is accused of letting people die…

Within the next couple of weeks Sweden will start having zero deaths reported days. I wonder if it will get mentioned at all.

41477 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #517 of 729 🔗

shouldn’t effect the beach lovers

41486 Lms23, 3, #518 of 729 🔗

The Weird War on Whiteness, referenced by Toby from Spiked Magazine:
https://www.spiked-online.com/podcast-episode/the-weird-war-on-whiteness-2/

Something sexual going on?
Or something else altogether:
https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/
THE TEN STAGES OF GENOCIDE
Classification
Symbolisation
Discrimination
Dehumanisation
Organisation
Polarisation
Preparation
Persecution
Extermination
Denial

What better way to dehumanise than making everyone wear masks, break down social contacts, atomise society, accuse one racial group of racism and privilege that’s embedded in their DNA, which can’t be expunged or forgiven, accuse them of causing all the evil in the world, whilst giving all other racial groups a free pass for blatant racism because “privilege.”

41492 Robert, #519 of 729 🔗

I have never been more demoralised during this whole saga than right now, on the eve of my first trip to find a pub to have a pint in. So many bedwetters calling for more lockdown, pubs want everyone seated, minimal contact. None of my friends are interested in going to the pub. I feel like this will never end. It is so depressing. I almost feel like I should be making some sort of stand against the restrictions, but not visiting a pub will be chalked up to being too scared of the virus. I am not scared. I want things to go back to normal. There is no reason why they cannot be so. When will the hysteria end?

41495 Nobody2020, #520 of 729 🔗
41496 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 3, #521 of 729 🔗

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qne4YAAqGL8

Life in The New Abnormal World

Just in case anyone wasn’t depressed enough already.
If nothing else ,watch the video at about 25 minutes in, which includes a brief interview with Bill and Melinda Gates, and how they both have wide smiles at the mention of the next viral pandemic…

41522 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Lms23, 3, #522 of 729 🔗

Two extra Gates of Hell!

41497 They dont like it up 'em, #523 of 729 🔗

Just returned from a trip to a local shropshire town on so called ‘super saturday’ which I think would be better labelled ‘supine saturday’. Here are my observations:

(1) It was still very quiet compared to the saturdays of old. Footfall levels were about a third of what I remember and some pubs and cafe’s were stating on notices that they were still to remain closed.

(2) There were 10 high street premises that had white washed windows and ‘for sale’ boards on. If this is generalised across the country this is economic genocide (are we still allowed to use this word?) on an unparalled scale for a virus where the average age of death is higher than the average life expectancy.

(3) The cafe’s that had reopened all had a list of rules outside and seemed pretty empty inside with no queues at all. Not sure if thats because people dont like the ‘new normal’ or because the bedwetters would not go in even if the staff were in cybermen suits.

(4) I saw a small queue outside Wetherspoon all wearing face nappies and a muzzled ‘bouncer’ outside policing the queue. I glanced inside…it looked more like prison visiting than a pub.

(5) Saw 2 buses each with one passenger on. Both passengers were dutifully wearing the face nappies but neither driver wore them. Farcical.

I shall not be participating in any of this ‘new normal’ totalitarianism. One small upside of lockdown is that I have upscaled my cooking skills so will be eating and drinking at home until this nonsense ends….if it ever does and I am far from optimistic.

41498 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 12, #524 of 729 🔗

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scots-urged-to-give-biggest-clap-yet-as-nhs-turns-72?top

Here we go again. Clap till you drop for the New Deity.The Great Panjandrum which deserves our slavish adulation.

Not me

41521 ▶▶ IanE, replying to wendyk, 8, #525 of 729 🔗

72? Yes, what an important, indeed earth-shattering, anniversary: 2 cubed times 3 squared. A new Pythagoras has arrived to stun the speechless onlookers!

41591 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IanE, #526 of 729 🔗

They should make it extra special by celebrating every year.

41596 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #527 of 729 🔗

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

41702 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #528 of 729 🔗

You just watch! That is coming.

41595 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 2, #529 of 729 🔗

Gale force winds and rain forecast round here for tomorrow. That should bring out out only the true idiots.

41598 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #530 of 729 🔗

I’ll play “God Save the Tsar” on full blast.

41599 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to wendyk, 2, #531 of 729 🔗

Another clapathon I’m going to miss.

41499 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 18, #532 of 729 🔗

Out and about today and no real sign of the pubs round here opening except the Wetherspoons.

Bad signs:

Homebase idiots getting even more officious and pompous but stock empty, think they are going down the pan

Same store the 20(ish) masked moron doorman at Homebase, kept fiddling with his mask and moving it around and obviously uncomfortable and not coping with it. Told him to take it off, tried to explain dangers of oxygen levels dropping etc but he wouldn’t believe me as, in his own words, “I’ve seen that nurse on facebook who said oxygen levels don’t drop”. Tried to explain that had been debunked by proper researchers, other NHS staff reporting colleagues collapsing at work, drivers crashing, people collapsing in the street etc plus all they studies done proving “the nurse” wrong and these were on the internet as well but he wouldn’t listen. He also believed it would stop him catching anything and when I showed him a photo of the warning on the back of a box of masks he wouldn’t believe that either.
To make him even more stupid when we came out he was talking to someone else waiting to go in about the same thing and I caught his final comment “it will be even stranger if we go back to not wearing a mask, don’t know if I could”. We’re doomed if that attitude takes hold.

Local Boots is 60 ft x 300 ft, only lets 2 people in at once. My wife went in, the staff said something and she said “it’s not mandatory” (she must have caught it from me and getting really pissed off as she usually gets annoyed at me saying things like this). The staff’s reply – if we don’t enforce it and the manager sees they have instructions from head office to sack us on the spot.

Almost no-one out and about buying. Most shops in local high street and travel agents still closed. More empty shops than 3 months ago.

Good signs:

local town council removed all parking restrictions, unblocked the parking bays, removed all social distancing signs that were about 2 weeks ago.

very few masks in sight (think I only saw 3 in total) and one old man and cut a hole in it so he could smoke his pipe without taking it off

very little social distancing

talking to people a vast majority say if face coverings become law for going into shops then they are ordering online and the shops can go bust plus no going to pub, restaurants etc until all is the old normal, not new normal so Rishi and Boris can go boil their heads

B&Q basically given up on outside queueing, social distancing inside, they take cash again

Morrisons basically giving up on following the social distancing inside

More people are awakening to the aft it’s all a scam and understand a “positive test” does not mean anything except bullshit from the government experts.

41506 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #533 of 729 🔗

Recent visits to dentist and a hospital – mask wearing by staff pretty inconsistent, some not at all, some taking on and off, some only when in public view, not covering noses, lots of fiddling with them. I kept my discipline much better than they did, though to be fair they are meant to do it all day every day.

41533 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Julian, 4, #534 of 729 🔗

friend of mine is hospital porter . he has to wear the mask and hates it. only allowed to remove when he sneaks out of the building. working A&E this evening so looking forward to saturday night drunks for first time in months

41617 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Julian, #535 of 729 🔗

That’s precisely why wearing masks was initially advised as people spend too much time fiddling with them.

41508 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #536 of 729 🔗

The comment from the lad at B&Q about not being able to go back to not wearing a mask is what I’ve been expecting to hear somebody say all week,it’s a new comfort blanket for a lot of people,it is impossible to make them see how irrational it is,like you I’ve tried.
A lot of the younger generation are totally on side with the lockdown and every edict the government brings out,I have an teenage niece and nothing you can say or show to her shakes her belief that this virus is nothing less the the black death.I blame the atrocious education a lot of youngsters have received over the past 30 years,they’ve been moulded into easily manipulated sheep.

41511 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Paul, 11, #537 of 729 🔗

I bet if you asked how the human race has survived this long without mask the answer would be we’ve never had anything this deadly before.

41515 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #538 of 729 🔗

I read an editorial in a magazine yesterday that said we have seen death on an unprecedented scale !.

41519 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Paul, 10, #539 of 729 🔗

Good lord. C hecked on Worldometers how many people have died so far this year in the world (29,901,000) and how many have died of or with covid-19 (529,000 – many of whom would sadly have died anyway this year) . So roughly 1.75% of deaths in the world this year so far have had a covid-19 element.

41561 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, 1, #540 of 729 🔗

Try telling that to the families of the, oh wait…

41615 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Julian, 2, #541 of 729 🔗

And many will have died with it, not from it.

41883 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lms23, #542 of 729 🔗

Sadly many will also have died from misguided treatment exacerbated by the panic.

41628 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian, 4, #543 of 729 🔗

It would be interesting to know how many deaths had a cornoavirus element in previous years, how many deaths where a rhinovirus could be detected, etc. How unusual is it for people to have a common cold virus present when they die? This is another aspect people seem to overlook – we have never really tried to collect these numbers before so we have no perspective, on their own they are rather meaningless.

41896 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Saved To Death, #544 of 729 🔗

That’s a very good point. According to the latest ONS data about 5% of those surveyed had some sort of cold including Covid (of whom 0.2% were positive for Covid). This was in the middle of a lockdown thus simultaneously proving that lockdowns do not eradicate respiratory viruses and that Covid is dying out because of herd immunity not lockdowns. But back to your actual point. 600k die in the UK each year and if 5% of them have a cold that’s 30,000. Similar ballpark to the Covidpocalypse. You’d also expect a few more colds in an average year than the 5% found in the middle of summer in the middle of a stringent lockdown!

41609 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Paul, 2, #545 of 729 🔗

Was it ‘The New Stupid’?

41558 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #546 of 729 🔗

In the fourteenth century the Black Death killed between forty to sixty percent of the population of Europe. I wonder how our contemporary leaders would respond to such a threat?

41585 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #547 of 729 🔗

In the fourteenth century people did things properly.

41619 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #548 of 729 🔗

All hide in a basement somewhere??

41903 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Steve Hayes, #549 of 729 🔗

They would have passed emergency laws based on the science that from now on everyone had to have at least 100 pet rats.

41520 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Paul, 9, #550 of 729 🔗

My sentiments exactly. All the young brainwashed will be thinking before they go out ‘phone – check, keys – check, mask – check’. I’ve just seen the new Vodafone advert, absolute gratuitous propaganda, lots of trendy youngsters socialising having fun wearing masks, I’m also watching the racing (Derby and Oaks) jockeys on a race horse going at 30mph wearing a cloth mask – ridiculous, stall handlers all wearing masks and all standing around fiddling and touching them. Not wishing to sound callous but I really hope a jockey has a severe reaction to wearing a mask (loss of oxygen etc) and collapses, they are on the limit of weight/dehydration as it is! can’t be healthy.

41524 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to stefarm, 6, #551 of 729 🔗

The jockeys are free to remove the mask whilst actually racing and many do. They are only compulsory in the paddock (where the horses are paraded before the race and go into after the finish). The use of masks/balaclavas/bandanas are actually quite common by jockeys and lads on the gallops in the autumn/winter. It gets darned cold travelling at 30mph+ with no protection in the colder months. The impression I get from racing friends is that they will basically do whatever in order to get racing going again – as hundreds of thousands of livelihoods are at stake.

41529 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to The Spingler, 1, #552 of 729 🔗

Noted, however many are wearing them today so either all wear them or none wear them. It was perfectly acceptable 100 days ago not to wear them. Sorry TS I’m not having a dig at you.

41682 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 2, #553 of 729 🔗

D’you know, I’m glad I’m old. And tough. And sceptical.
Who’d want to live as a young zombie with decades of zombiedom to look forward to?

41530 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Paul, 18, #554 of 729 🔗

Went to B&Q the other day noticed signs saying no entry if any symptoms of CV19. I asked the lad on the door if I could come in and that I had Ebola but not CV19. He said that was fine. Honest exchange try it, fun to be had with this nonsense.

41848 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Rick, #555 of 729 🔗

That has made me really laugh Rick! Thanks. Here in East Yorkshire other than queues at certain times (& I do without whatever they are queueing for) I have simply ignored sanitiser offerings or strange arrows. My 78 year old widowed friend has pretty much continued to come for supper on Sunday nights & I know has benefitted from the company. I used to fly & ride fast horses over fences. I have no elderly relatives or partner left to lose so I guess I’m slightly odd. I’ve worked producing safe food all my life with automatic risk assessments embedded in everything I do. And someone wants to tell me what I should and shouldn’t do to defend myself from a virus similar to flu? Really? REALLY? Oh for goodness sake. This is madness.

41590 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, 1, #556 of 729 🔗

Lack of fully-developed frontal lobes makes them less capable of discernment.

41588 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #557 of 729 🔗

very few masks in sight (think I only saw 3 in total) and one old man and cut a hole in it so he could smoke his pipe without taking it off

Wonderful!

41610 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #558 of 729 🔗

“talking to people a vast majority say if face coverings become law for going into shops then they are ordering online and the shops can go bust”

I have great sympathy with this view, but the downside is that with shops closed, the high street dies, and it wasn’t doing well before this. Society will become more atomized and dysfunctional, plus wealth becomes even more concentrated in the hands of a few online retailers, e.g. Jeff Bezos of Amazon, who’s already the richest man in the world.
We have to refuse to go along with it, but make sure shops know how we feel about masks and that we’re prepared to go to another store that doesn’t impose ridiculous rules.

41665 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, 2, #559 of 729 🔗

My thoughts too. The last three months have trained us to shop online.
A friend who declared adamantly in January that she wouldn’t shop online because she liked to choose her own produce, is now happily declaring that she might never set foot in a shop again because online is so much easier.

The death of the highstreet could well be part of their dastardly agenda. This will leave the councils even more short of money because there will be no rent revenue and thus Thatcher’s policies to disempower the local councils are coming to fruition.

41673 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #560 of 729 🔗

I’ve been religiously using local butchers, greengrocers, delis and the like and I don’t think I’ll go back to a big supermarket. I don’t know if I’ll ever go into a non-food shop again, to be honest and I’m sorry to say that Amazon is getting most of my business for all of that stuff. But you also need to bear in mind that Amazon acts as a storefront for a lot of small traders, so while they do take a cut, it ain’t all bad.

I was never a big shopper anyway. Can’t see a reason to put myself through it under the current circumstances and I’m fairly sure I’ll have lost any kind of habit by the time things are back to normal normal.

41742 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cheezilla, #561 of 729 🔗

‘Thatcher’ left power 30 years ago…keep up now lol!

41613 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #562 of 729 🔗

Your encounter with the Homebase bloke isn’t surprising, I’ve noticed its more the millenials who have bought into this bollocks hook, line and sinker without even bothering to do their own research. It will be interesting what majority of my younger colleagues think when I return to work in a fortnight but from what I’ve discerned from social media and the sporiadic zoom meetings I’ve had, the picture is depressing. In the last meeting, one millenial from the retail department claimed that face masks were effective and I silently cheered when the operations manager put her in her place by saying “many reputable scientific papers have said that they are not.”

talking to people a vast majority say if face coverings become law for going into shops then they are ordering online and the shops can go bust plus no going to pub, restaurants etc until all is the old normal, not new normal so Rishi and Boris can go boil their heads

This gives me hope that the tide is turning and many people are no longer going to sit by and tolerate this nonsense.

41762 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #563 of 729 🔗

As far as the youth are concerned, I’m hoping a fair few of them get to go abroad this summer and see that the ‘old normal’ has returned to many countries. They will feel stupid wearing masks abroad if their contemporaries there are not.. When they see that there are not piles of corpses in the street, I’m hoping they might have a re-think of the propaganda they have been sold and lapped up via TV, social media and internet over here..

41500 assoc, replying to assoc, 3, #564 of 729 🔗

According to the BBC a man at White City who was throwing bricks at the police complained that he couldn’t understand why they there, as nobody had done anything wrong!

41504 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to assoc, 4, #565 of 729 🔗

Sounds logical, throwing bricks at people because you don’t understand something

41505 ▶▶ Julian, replying to assoc, 7, #566 of 729 🔗

I heard an interview with someone at a similar gathering a couple of weeks ago, which also ended in violence clashes with police. He said something along the lines of “then the police arrived and started enforcing their laws”, as if those laws somehow didn’t apply to this man and others at the event. I thought that was quite revealing.

41523 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Julian, 2, #567 of 729 🔗

https://youtu.be/fGW_BGtRtNw

PC Pisspot has some comments

41582 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 1, #568 of 729 🔗

Sounds like they were behaving till the police turned up. Funny that….

41502 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #569 of 729 🔗

Rumour and gossip alert about the Leicester lockdown:

Chatting to an old retired acquaintance who still has connections to the Police in our capital city he thinks that Leicester was targeted for the new lockdown as part of the big bust of criminal gangs last week.

Now they have the encryption broken it’s not just drugs but the human trafficking they are going after and Leicester has quite a few factories filled with illegal immigrants along with other work gangs and these are now being targeted.

He said watch carefully where these isolated new lockdowns take place not just here but worldwide.

I’m going o keep an eye on it to see if anything comes from this or not. Still if not at least we had a good old chat and catch up.

41514 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #570 of 729 🔗

Keith Vaz’s home town is riddled with corruption? Who knew?

41589 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cecil B, 1, #571 of 729 🔗

Don’t think he did or not that he would remember at least.

41510 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, #573 of 729 🔗

If you thought that the Monty Python team might maintain a bit of true British character, you’d be wrong.

Eric Idle just wrote this in response to a post on their official twitter feed celebrating the opening of pubs:

“Do not listen. I have nothing to do with this. In the wise words of my wife. ‘What has changed?” Nothing. There is no cure, there is no vaccine. Go out at your peril. Mingle at your own risk. Unless your pub is called The Grim Reaper, you should stay home. Please be safe.”

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/eric-idle-denounces-monty-pythons-092300632.html

41526 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Barney McGrew, 14, #574 of 729 🔗

always look on the bright side of life……………

41540 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to mjr, #575 of 729 🔗

😄 😂

41562 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, 1, #576 of 729 🔗

death.

41539 ▶▶ Albie, replying to Barney McGrew, 15, #577 of 729 🔗

For Gods sake! Just stay at home quivering for ever and ever until you die then, Eric. There’s no speaking to people with this mindset.

41543 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #578 of 729 🔗

I don’t believe it! Victor Meldrew must be angrier than usual

41549 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #579 of 729 🔗

Yes it has changed. it is less virulent (however potent it was in the first place is debatable) the viral load will have decreased and more people will have built immunity. Why do we imbue entertainers with medical or social vision? Bet he hasn’t been on here.

41527 Steve, replying to Steve, 7, #580 of 729 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-53290314

Good to see in the second picture down that the police, yet again, seem to be immune from the virus as they don’t need to practice any anti-social distancing whilst they stand around making sure everyone else is compliant.

41576 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve, 2, #581 of 729 🔗

Leicester vox pop:

She added she wondered if it was “too soon” for the government to be relaxing lockdown across the rest of England.
“It was too soon for us in Leicester and I wonder if other areas will have similar problems after the weekend and will be shutting back down,” she said.
“We definitely opened up too quickly so these local lockdowns could happen elsewhere.”

Groan!

41528 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 14, #582 of 729 🔗

Partner’s kid arrived back from Tanzania via Ethiopia this morning where he’s been for work. He says people out there are far more worried about Ebola than covid 19, and all the various other nasties that do the rounds in Africa. Covid is just a sniffle, it’s Ebola which is deadly.

41551 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to The Spingler, 6, #583 of 729 🔗

Not surprising – I suppose in third world countries, where threats which have been eradicated in the West still exist, they have much more serious things to worry about than an illness which mainly picks off the elderly/vulnerable.

41579 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 3, #584 of 729 🔗

I don’t disagree. Just to point out ~the awful phrase alert~ the BAME majority population in Ethiopia and Tanzania are supposedly at more risk that caucassian majority countries.

Ghana’s experience was 238 deaths a short lock down and release (to keep globalists happy). 30 odd million in Ghana. Not bad for ‘third’ world. Caveat my knowlege of this is based on data from maybe a month back.

41586 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 3, #585 of 729 🔗

Much, much lower average age in Ghana and in most of sub-Saharan Africa. Putting the BAME factor aside (since we haven’t the faintest idea why it is the case), it does not surprise me at all that African countries have seen a negligible death toll.

41700 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #586 of 729 🔗

Rational ressonable and accepted.

There are also few if any care homes and no outlandish bureaucratic management systems attached to the health care facilities. Very difficult to cause data fraud shovelling flu into covid stats. Plus of course very limited health facilties by comparison to say Scotland.

To correct myself earlier google itself gives the death figures today:

30+ million ppl – 114 deaths Ghana
5+ million ppl – 2488 deaths Scotland

How do you feel Nicola?

41703 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, #587 of 729 🔗

Well quite. I would add though that one of the reasons that there aren’t many care homes in sub-Saharan Africa, alongside stronger extended family care culture, is that life expectancy is not great. This is also one of the reasons that the average age is much lower than in the UK.

41547 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 16, #588 of 729 🔗

Today was a good day. Had a hair cut, no mask required. Went to cricket practice and then the pub for a pint. Country local pub and all was very normal. No contact tracing, table service but other than that, very pleasant and smiling faces.

41548 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Sarigan, 7, #589 of 729 🔗

That sounds lovely! How encouraging it is to hear that there is normality out there somewhere.

41574 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Sarigan, 2, #590 of 729 🔗

Wonderful! To hear that raises the spirits.

41550 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 19, #591 of 729 🔗

I like the sound of this guy. We need more people like him!

An under-fire pub landlord who has had his licence to serve alcohol stripped has seemingly defied the ban by reopening to punters on July 4.
As part of what he called “independence day,” Paul Greasby, who runs The Pitsmoor Hotel and The Staffordshire Arms in Sheffield, controversially opened his pubs less than a fortnight after losing his premises licences for both establishments.
It comes after police said they caught drinkers being served in both pubs during the lockdown with video footage showing people hiding in wardrobes above the Pitsmoor pub during a raid by the authorities.
An audio recording of an argument between Mr Greasby and his former girlfriend also revealed Mr Greasby shouting that coronavirus was “a load of f***ing b******s”.
His ex lover could be heard asking him “do you not think you’re doing something wrong, Paul?” to which he replied: “No, because I know it’s a load of s***. It’s a load of f***ing b******s.”
Mr Greasby denied serving alcohol inside the pubs during lockdown and in his closing comments to the council during an online meeting last week, he apologised for “any trouble it’s caused”.
Although he lost his premises licences for both pubs, Mr Greasby decided to reopen earlier today and he has invited punters to his establishments for a drink.
A text sent by Mr Greasby on Friday night, said: “We are open tomorrow 4th July 2020 indepdendence day at the Staffordshire Arms and Pitsmoor Hotel.
On Saturday afternoon, he confirmed to South Yorkshire Live that he had opened both his pubs.
He said: “I’m not doing anything illegal. I’m open.”

41560 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #592 of 729 🔗

Whadda guy.

41570 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 2, #593 of 729 🔗

Hiding in wardrobes during a raid! Tales from a bigone age!

41733 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Cheezilla, #594 of 729 🔗

Good luck, that man. Dawn raid tomorrow probably!

41555 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #596 of 729 🔗

Only a temporary inconvenience they said.

41556 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #597 of 729 🔗

That looks absolutely horrible!

41573 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #598 of 729 🔗

Yeah. Don’t think I’ll be visiting.

41646 ▶▶ matt, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #599 of 729 🔗

Grant, do you have an actual point? Or are you just scared to go outside and you’ve learned some sweary words to use in the internet?

41655 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 1, #600 of 729 🔗

Don’t feed the troll!

41666 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #601 of 729 🔗

See, the thing is that “don’t feed the troll” normally means that you shouldn’t get involved in troll’s trollish discussions, because it encourages the troll to keep being trollish. But what’s clear is, that our very own pet troll can’t actually do discussions – just drive-by outrage and swearing – and so replying to this troll is not feeding the troll.

Our little pet troll is going to keep turning up every day anyway, as far as I can see and will spread his trollish little messages of fear and hatred and f words and will then go on his way for another 24 hours feeling that he has done his service to humanity by trolling the dangerously reckless individuals who feel that maybe _not_ placing a free nation under house arrest and crashing one of the world’s largest economies might have been a better idea.

So I will keep trying to feed the troll, because I’d love to hear our little pet troll try to string an argument together and I’d like to see what it is.

41680 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 6, #602 of 729 🔗

It’ll be like reasoning with a toddler, but you can always try!

41692 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 2, #603 of 729 🔗

Well, I’m not really trying, because I know he’s not actually going to reply to me. But in the meantime, it amuses me and I’m not doing anybody any harm.

41554 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 20, #604 of 729 🔗

Has anyone else been rather amused by Rishi Sunak’s Twitter response of ‘Pop the kettle on’ to pubs re-opening today? https://mobile.twitter.com/RishiSunak/status/1279035376221532160

This bizarre tweet, coupled with the insane, inhuman measures we are all being subject to – it’s like the government are composed of aliens who arrived on earth last year and have had six months to observe human behaviour and have a rudimentary understanding of it, but they still don’t really have the wisdom or innate instinct to truly understand how our species truly lives and interacts.

41559 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Poppy, 5, #605 of 729 🔗

Sounds like Handjob has Rishi tied up in his basement (like Cummings has Boris) and has commandeered his social media accounts.

41565 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Poppy, 6, #606 of 729 🔗

what i cannot understand are all the tweets below this which basic accuse him of mass murder because the pubs are opening.

41568 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #607 of 729 🔗

I was thinking that. Very worrying!
Cold War Steve’s graphic is pretty class though!

41577 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Poppy, 10, #608 of 729 🔗

Here’s one of the replies:
“Pubs opening from 6am tomorrow in a pandemic???? ”

Question: has there been a pandemic or epidemic before where the hospitals have been half empty and many of the medical staff have had little to do, to the point they were making videos of themselves in well-rehearsed dance routines???

41587 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lms23, 8, #609 of 729 🔗

Has there been a pandemic before when the pubs have been shut for 3 months?

41602 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 9, #610 of 729 🔗

The pubs were still open during the BLACK DEATH!

41608 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Farinances, 8, #611 of 729 🔗

Of course they were. Because if they’d been closed, there’d have been a revolt.

41678 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 3, #612 of 729 🔗

There was one, not too long after, in 1381.

41695 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 4, #613 of 729 🔗

There was. Partly because the peasants had worked out that they were a lot more valuable now, because there weren’t so many of them left anymore.

I bet it never occurred to them to set up a one way system in the pub, though, even when everyone they knew was dying.

41696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, #614 of 729 🔗

The Black Death was 30 years before the Peasants Revolt.

41704 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, #615 of 729 🔗

Yes.

41752 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 1, #616 of 729 🔗

Hmmm Mason Mills used the expression ‘put the kettle on’ a day or so ago…coincidence? Maybe Mason is Rishi, not DC…???

41914 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Poppy, #617 of 729 🔗

Stunning the number of replies to that tweet that opening pubs is going to bring on a second wave – like it did with BLM protests and then Bournemouth. What are they going to do? Stay at home? Until what exactly?

41557 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 21, #618 of 729 🔗

So I went

(Need to stop doing that. I know how much people hate it 😋 )

I went to Matalan just now because I’m tired (insomnia) and bored and I’m one of those women who shops when she’s tired and bored.

It wasn’t bad at all. No masks. Short queue. Hand sanitiser at the door that I ignored. Arrows on the floor that I ignored (as did everyone else). Being in the half empty store was actually quite pleasant and felt quite relaxed without the crowds, I’m not gonna lie.

It was all going so well until I took my armful of tat to the till to pay. Where I was greeted with the plastic screens and assistants wearing muzzles. After having quite a nice experience up until then I was plunged into Covid-1984 world. It occurred to me that I wasn’t being treated like a biohazard in this particular store, but the staff were. I felt a crushing sense of sadness as I realised the poor women behind the desk would likely have to stand there another six or so hours with their pretty young faces obscured and their breath stifled. They looked subdued. Depressed. Of course having your face covered also discourages you from conversing and interacting with your colleagues naturally. You know, how humans at work generally do.

People don’t want to work in these conditions but they have to, or they won’t work at all.

41567 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Farinances, 6, #619 of 729 🔗

The new abnormal. Let’s just pray it doesn’t last long, but I fear the PTB will string it out for as long as possible.

41624 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Lms23, 11, #620 of 729 🔗

From what I have witnessed today, er … people definitely want to go back to how things were. If they wanted all the safety crap, they’d have boycotted my shop: they didn’t. Trade not up to usual levels, but a promising start …

41725 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Lms23, 3, #621 of 729 🔗

Oh dear, did you wake up from your nap? Never mind, Mummy will change your nappy shortly.

41580 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Farinances, 12, #622 of 729 🔗

There are mini rebellions going on. I went into a motorway services Burger King yesterday and the woman staff member controlling the queue had her face mask round her neck. In the car park there was a large group of bikers chatting together, relaxed and happy. I doubt they are all of the same households or bubbles so none of them were giving a toss about the rules. No face masks were spotted, apart from the BG staff.

There is a definite disconnect between what I read on my FB feed – all very pro mask – and the reality when I go out – face masks in the tiny minority.

41601 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Farinances, 14, #623 of 729 🔗

You aid it: subdued. Depressed. Can’t even smile at their co-workers or customers. sucking the joy out of life. And when I say, come on, something else going on here people cry ‘conspiracy theorist’! We are being dehumanised, every speck of joy is being sucked out of our lives and masks are suddenly normal when there is no fucking evidence anywhere that they do any good whatsoever.

41622 ▶▶ Rick, replying to Farinances, 8, #624 of 729 🔗

A good solicitor and the threat of action will soon have it sorted. Crowdfund a few examples. Some business owners have rushed to implement stupid guidelines with little evidence of effectiveness or consequences. Sounds like what the GOV did.

41653 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rick, 1, #625 of 729 🔗

I get the impression they’re so desperate to reopen they’d jump through any number of hoops just to be alllowed to do so.

41629 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 8, #626 of 729 🔗

That’s really depressing and I feel for the staff who have been dehumanised by all this. Its bizarre that supermarket workers have been working throughout all this with barely anyone dropping dead. From what I’ve seen they’re treated better by their management than the staff of so-called “non-essential” stores.

Perhaps they should organise a strike for the sake of their health and mental well being if nothing else.

41637 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #627 of 729 🔗

Indeed – where are the clusters of infections from the supermarkets?

41750 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to The Spingler, #628 of 729 🔗

Exactly! We need to point this out at every opportunity!

41756 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to The Spingler, #629 of 729 🔗

Well said. I had a chat with someone from our local Sainsbury’s who pointed out that no-one in his branch had been off sick since this madness began.

41651 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #630 of 729 🔗

They have no power – probably on minimum wage too.

41757 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #631 of 729 🔗

That’s pretty much the killer with these sort of jobs and not to mention not very aware of their rights. We need another Margaret Bondfeld at this rate.

41813 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bart Simpson, #632 of 729 🔗

Bondfield. Nice to know someone else knows about her.

41707 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #633 of 729 🔗

On my trip to Tesco today (no queuing, fully stocked, friendly checkout lady with no mask) I was given a little card to give a ‘satisfaction review’ online. A lot of it was to do with their safety measures including ‘which of the following make you feel safe in our store’ and a list of all the lines, barriers, etc. I ticked ‘none of the above’ which probably gave the wrong impression but backed it up with some choice words. However it is good to see our local Tesco slowly getting back to some sense of normality after weeks of long long queues to get in.

41761 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to davews, 1, #634 of 729 🔗

It seems like the supermarkets are quietly dropping at lot of these nonsense and it will be interesting if the High Street catches on.

41737 ▶▶▶ Mask envy, replying to Bart Simpson, #635 of 729 🔗

I’ve recently got a job at the supermarket while all this is going on and university is cancelled, and I’m pleased to report that no social distancing takes place in the offices or storerooms! Haven’t talked much about covid except to essentially dismiss it as having been and gone, and not dangerous at all! Very nice working in what feels like the good old normal

41691 ▶▶ John P, replying to Farinances, 7, #636 of 729 🔗

“It occurred to me that I wasn’t being treated like a biohazard in this particular store, but the staff were.”

Yes, I had a similar experience in Boots on Wednesday. Poor woman at the counter was muzzled and wearing a visor and plastic gloves. There were only about two customers in the shop!

Initially I was resenting it all, but when I saw her I felt quite sad for her – she would have to be dressed like that all day. I thanked her and smiled when she served me.

41712 ▶▶▶ Cathy 123, replying to John P, #637 of 729 🔗

I too had that experience in Boots. I asked the man (behind a perspex screen but wearing a face mask along with all the other staff in the shop) at the till about it (having visited the store several times during lockdown and no one had face masks) and through his face mask he told me he wasn’t sure if it was company policy or just the store manager. It’s basically BONKERS whichever – I mean its waaaaay into the pandemic if there even was one and I agree with the previous commenter, if it was that serious there would have been masses of outbreaks in supermarkets. The social distancing is not brilliant at my local Morrisons store and so far, as far as I’m aware, no outbreaks have happened at supermarkets. This whole thing has reached proportions of ridiculousness and like you I feel incredibly sorry for staff who have to go along with this charade for all of their 8 hr shift. ENOUGH!!!!!

41583 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, 17, #638 of 729 🔗

Been out on M6 today and I haven’t seen it so busy since March. I have been making a lot of non-essential M6 trips during lockdown so I know what its been like. Also, I was very pleasantly surprised by the number of caravans – I saw loads and, unless they all turned left at Penrith, some will now be in Scotland.

I expect its just a matter of time though before Wee Krankie will declare that those English caravanners pose a “threat”, and she will be turning caravans away at the border.

41594 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Back To Normal, 7, #639 of 729 🔗

It is starting to look like normal out there – I was gadding about yesterday across the Welsh/English border, very busy going down the M5 towards Bath/Bristol. Quite heart warming.

41600 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, 4, #640 of 729 🔗

Think we’ll soon be rejoicing to be sitting in tail-backs?

41635 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to annie, 3, #641 of 729 🔗

LOL – perverse isn’t it. I would usually avoid like the plague trying to get round Bristol and back over the bridge on a Friday afternoon so it has been nice to be free to travel wherever at whatever time, however I want the normal world back so if that means tail backs or timing my journeys then I’ll happily do it

41687 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to annie, #642 of 729 🔗

Depends on where you live.

41604 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to The Spingler, 1, #643 of 729 🔗

I’m not sure the welcome in the west country will be warm though – there’s still an undercurrent of mistrust towards the emmets.

41618 ▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to bluemoon, 8, #644 of 729 🔗

I have a business down there and welcome everyone. Those who kick off need to get a grip and image just how bad mass unemployment is.

41623 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Rick, 5, #645 of 729 🔗

I do agree, but I’ve just checked my town’s FB page: stay away from visitors, remember 1 in 2000 carry the virus, be careful, stay safe. AAAGGGGHH!

41676 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to bluemoon, 2, #646 of 729 🔗
But if you count them, and  there are only1999,  no worries.
41681 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to annie, 1, #647 of 729 🔗

Lovely! And if I posted that, nobody would understand…….

41597 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Back To Normal, 7, #648 of 729 🔗

Why the hell would anyone want to go to Scotland under current regulations?

41643 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bella, 13, #649 of 729 🔗

Oh, I don’t know. She’s a short megalomaniac with nationalist and socialist opinions (and I think I can see a faint moustache there).

41683 ▶▶▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to matt, 2, #650 of 729 🔗

She probably is more intelligent than BoJo etc though, having run rings around them politically during this affair.
Intelligent, nasty and racist.

41690 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to GetaGrip, 4, #651 of 729 🔗

She’s certainly more effective than Bojo at the moment. And “nasty and racist” I can definitely agree with.

41647 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #652 of 729 🔗

I was wondering that – especially given the recent weather!

41648 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 3, #653 of 729 🔗

TROLL ALERT!

41661 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Bella, #654 of 729 🔗

At least Hitler wasn’t ginger

41764 ▶▶▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Cecil B, #655 of 729 🔗

NS comparison with Hitler I agree with. Your use of the word ginger, I do not. Thats a racist comment about red-heads.

41855 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella, #656 of 729 🔗

Where the fuck did I mention Hitler? Drunk again?

41677 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Back To Normal, 5, #657 of 729 🔗

Do not bet on The Scottish Leader not blocking the border from England.

I have just dug out the OS maps for the border and there are only:

1 motorway
4 Trunk roads
1 “A” road
7 “B” roads
12 unclassified rads

If you are an SAS or Ray Mears type and like a walking holiday you could sneak in via one of the more remote forests.

41603 annie, replying to annie, 14, #658 of 729 🔗

Just been on Amazon ordering a slew of David Starkey books. Feel good.

41606 ▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 3, #659 of 729 🔗

Hey, that’s a good idea. Hadn’t occurred to me.

I just need to see if I can get over my personal dislike of Starkey in the interests of justice…

41631 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #660 of 729 🔗

Yay!! I would heartily recommend his “Music and Monarchy” DVD – great stuff!

41719 ▶▶ IanE, replying to annie, 1, #661 of 729 🔗

Probably just in time – I imagine Amazon will stop selling them toute de suite! And then Starkey can give the riposte, “Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn “!

41632 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 23, #662 of 729 🔗

Greetings Fellow Sceptics!!

After months of deliberation, Mr Bart and I have cancelled our Times subscription.

Our boycott of the MSM is now complete.

41664 ▶▶ scepticalsue, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #663 of 729 🔗

Good work Bart! I’m waiting for my free trial of the Telegraph to expire and I will be following suit – just working out how to cancel my TV licence without being constantly harassed.

41669 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to scepticalsue, #664 of 729 🔗

Cancel your direct debit – that’s how I cancelled my Times subscription.

41674 ▶▶▶▶ scepticalsue, replying to Bart Simpson, #665 of 729 🔗

Good idea, I genuinely don’t watch TV anyway – only use it to watch Netflix etc…

41743 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to scepticalsue, #666 of 729 🔗

Phone licence folk. Tell them you don’t require their service. They spiel the small print that you are a criminal if you are lying, then they ask you ok? You agree. One letter two years later asking you if circumstances are the same. That’s it.

No idea how to get a refund out of them. Good luck.

41774 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to scepticalsue, 1, #667 of 729 🔗

Have not had a licence for ages now and don’t watch TV so no loss.

41798 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to scepticalsue, #668 of 729 🔗

Same here. Currently watching Preacher on my firestick. Spoof involving mad megalomaniac seems appropriate viewing right now. Many of the characters closely resemble some of the Cabinet.

41638 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 15, #669 of 729 🔗

Did Leicester need to be locked-down – or did testing panic the government?
What has happened to the city shows that, if you don’t want to be locked down, try not to get tested

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/04/did-leicester-need-locked-down-did-testing-panic-government/

A couple of members of the Cabinet are reported to have even gone so far as to demand that the city be closed off with roadblocks.
But what if it is all an illusion – the rise in recorded cases purely a result of more people being tested? A report by Public Health England isn’t sure, concluding: “Evidence for the scale of the outbreak is limited and may, in part, be artefactually related to growth in availability of testing.” The report revealed that the rise in cases was purely down to “Pillar 2” tests – tests carried out in the community, which have increased rapidly in recent weeks. In Leicester, it transpires, four mobile testing units have been deployed .

………………….

The perverse moral of the Leicester story is that, unless you want to be locked down, try not to get tested. The more people in your town who get tested, the more confirmed cases there will be and the more likely the Government will panic and close you down. The people of Leicester are being punished for faithfully trooping into those mobile testing units.

41645 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #670 of 729 🔗

Thank you Ross Clark! And let us pray that the rest of the MSM pick up on this thread!

41660 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #671 of 729 🔗

Agree. Stay away from testing

41639 Dave #KBF, #672 of 729 🔗

Some conspiracy theorists talk sense, maybe they are not CS but free thinkers?

https://youtu.be/-qrm9AWpAro

41649 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #673 of 729 🔗

Elderly Florida Man Charged With Committing Aggravated Battery To Maintain Social Distancing

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article243927527.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMP5XYEDjw8

41671 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, #674 of 729 🔗

What a mess. It’s lucky the 86 year-old didn’t bang his head or the defendant might have found himself on a manslaughter charge. The judge certainly has things out of proportion!

41652 matt, 7, #675 of 729 🔗

Probably not, no.

41654 Barney McGrew, 6, #676 of 729 🔗

The media have no limits on their mendacity.

This headline on the Yahoo main page:
One school, 25 losses: Essex head on virus impact

It’s obvious what they want you to think.

If you click on the article you get this as the headline:

One school, 25 bereavements: Essex head fears emotional impact of Covid-19 “Vic Goddard … is thinking about the 23 pupils and two staff at his school who have been bereaved during the coronavirus pandemic.”

41656 Danzig Sopera, #677 of 729 🔗

Interesting study with big sample size from Northern Carolina in the US. Seemingly only buried in state-level press for the moment, and one would prefer to see it escalated into the formal research literature, but nevertheless, reporting CFR at about 0.1%: https://www.wfae.org/post/wake-forest-covid-study-death-rate-severity-symptoms-lower-first-thought?fbclid=IwAR2bCbQ3paByExLF2_i8Y_IoQB6ibdx8SBu1zUJXmhfi4YMUaLAYJWRsy8c#stream/0

41658 scepticalsue, 7, #678 of 729 🔗

‘Retard’ is a horrible word, and the less said about your spelling and grammar the better!

41659 assoc, 6, #679 of 729 🔗

When this is all over, and it will end, if only because of bloody-minded gun toting American rednecks (bless ‘em) refusing to wear masks or be vaccinated, there is room for a book of cartoons. There has been some marvellous work, though Bob’s DT 17th May, with the little boy in bed telling his mother that he thinks there is a monster under that bed, and she telling him that he will have to stay under the covers for the rest of his life, to avoid certain death, is, I think, the best of all and should be published as widely as possible.

41662 Nobody2020, 7, #680 of 729 🔗

This thing makes me laugh. I can see it sitting in a padded cell shouting out random expletives every now and then.

41668 scepticalsue, replying to scepticalsue, 12, #681 of 729 🔗

Evening sceptics, how is everyone doing? It’s been mixed round these parts, lots of bars and restaurants are open but almost every one has the usual restrictions of masks, handing over details etc…
I desperately want to support these businesses but I want no part of the new abnormal, so it’s a no go for me unfortunately.

41672 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to scepticalsue, 5, #682 of 729 🔗

Same here. The pub near my home is still closed, they’re not reopening until 20 July but still not going.

41693 ▶▶ assoc, replying to scepticalsue, 10, #683 of 729 🔗

Credit where credit is due. I popped into local Wetherspoons earlier for a coffee. No masks. Hand sanitiser and NHS contact forms if you want such things but it was made very clear, in a friendly way, that these are totally voluntary. There was a box for the paranoid to put their completed forms in. I put mine in the bin for used coffee spills. Inside the pub fewer tables and some rather nice screens separating tables at one end. Lots of people enjoying themselves, nobody asking stupid questions.
Staff not wearing masks. I’ll give the whole thing 8.5 out of 10. I wonder how long it will last though – there is no situation, no matter how bad, that cannot be made worse by the involvement of government. I can’t think the local town hall will be happy about non-council employees enjoying themselves in a pub on a wet Saturday afternoon.

41699 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to assoc, 5, #684 of 729 🔗

Lots of people enjoying themselves, that cannot be right in the new abnormal.

41739 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to assoc, 4, #685 of 729 🔗

That’s good to know. If it’s their duty to give you the form but they’re not obliged to check you’ve filled it in correctly, or to make sure you’ve handed it in, it could be a win-win situation.

42029 ▶▶▶▶ assoc, replying to Cheezilla, #686 of 729 🔗

Nobody asked whilst in the pub or on exit

41760 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to assoc, #687 of 729 🔗

Good here in West London.

Pub open. Gave details as requested in a low key way. Bar service, TVs on with the footie. Staff in visors laughing at the lunacy. No masks. Handshakes mixed with elbow bumps. Nice to be back in the boozer 😊

41729 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to scepticalsue, 8, #688 of 729 🔗

It’s our duty – while the COVID babies are at home – to at least turn and tell said publicans just why they are losing out on custom. Don’t want them thinking it’s only quiet because people are at home eating food parcels!

41738 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to scepticalsue, 3, #689 of 729 🔗

I checked out a couple of the posher local cafes and they both want contact details.
Pleased to see my favourite (very tiny) cafe has managed to clear for customer entry and I will phone to see what the restrictions are, if any.
They’ve been doing takeaway but that isn’t a viable option if you aren’t living or working locally. My friend from a nearby city likes us to go there and we have a lovely lunch and a catchup. All-day breakfast, home-made cakes and excellent coffee.

Fingers crossed!

41758 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to scepticalsue, 3, #690 of 729 🔗

Booked in for a 4pm slot at my local, not happy about it, miss the option of going for a drink spontaneously while out walking the dog, but felt it was right to support the local. No temperature taken on arrival but had to sit at a table with a makeshift screen separating the table from others. As I am sure everyone else commented, it’s not going to allow the pubs (or any business) to operate fully and bring in the usual takings if this carries on.

Hopefully after a couple of weeks of this and no rise in infections might convince people to venture out. No one who was at the pub inside and out wore masks (except for the poor staff). I also went out for a drive round the local town after taking the dog for a walk this morning, I only counted three people wearing masks but it’s saddening to see shops with the queuing system outside. This can only go on for so long, there is a responsibility of business owners to pressure the government and state takings are down and this won’t work.

Dissapointed a family member messaged earlier to say I was brave going out!! Looking forward to speaking to them on the phone tomorrow, I really feel enough is enough family or not it’s time to take the harder, direct approach as so far trying to suggest lockdown and social distancing is wrong has not worked.

My father has been in and out of hospital and a care home during lockdown. Despite what seemed a desperate attempt to test positive for covid, he has been fine.

I know a local care home had someone aged 90 test positive, and the local large hospital only has two people with the virus. Seriously, how do seemingly intelligent people not question what’s going on.

41684 steve, 5, #691 of 729 🔗

Can you be arrested for crimes against intelligence and also having your panties in a hunch

41686 Farinances, 12, #692 of 729 🔗

Grant, I’ve been thinking about you all day.

Fancy a drink?

41705 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 10, #693 of 729 🔗

I see the DT is reporting that ‘England is coming out of hibernation’. Hibernation? How ordinary and unthreatening that word is! Hibernation is a response in animals and plants to cold weather and reduced food availability, not a natural response to a relatively mild flu bug!

41741 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Suitejb, 1, #694 of 729 🔗

Boris Johnson used the term last week I think.

41769 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, #695 of 729 🔗

Boris uses a lot of terms. That’s all he’s good at!

41751 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Suitejb, #696 of 729 🔗

They are a stranger to irony, it seems!

41708 Bella, replying to Bella, 18, #697 of 729 🔗

Just ventured out to a local hostelry for a tincture. I’m a regular. They insisted they take my temperature or I’m not allowed in. I said that’s they’re entitlement but I consider it an infringement of human rights and they can fuck off. Lot of calories in alcohol, may lose a lot of weight by Christmas.

41713 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Bella, 8, #698 of 729 🔗

Good one. And if they go on like that they’ll be out of business by Christmas.

41745 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, #699 of 729 🔗

Naw…don’t need to wait for Christmas, they might go bust by October at the earliest.

41852 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #700 of 729 🔗

Isn’t temperature checking discriminatory anyway? There’s lots of conditions that can elevate temperature including the bloody menopause!

41715 ▶▶ matt, replying to Bella, 13, #701 of 729 🔗

Went to meet a friend who’d booked a table (ugh) at a local pub earlier. No temperature checks, but had to wait outside the cordoned-off door to be shown to the table (ugh) and subjected to a barrage of instructions en route. The pub only seemed to be operating their outside tables. Table service only (which was slow) it wasn’t awful, but it wasn’t a pub. Friend had a 2 hour time slot and then we were chucked out to make room for the next slot. I’d normally average a pint every 20-30 minutes and I was there for about 90 minute and managed 2 pints and had to rush to finish the second (slow service).

I can’t imagine them being able to run profitability. I reckon you could do it, but only if you had the kind of ruthless efficiency that doesn’t come naturally to most publicans.

Won’t be going back in a hurry.

41720 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 2, #702 of 729 🔗

A bit cold to sit outside nursing a pint, surely? And what if it’s raining? Or windy – watch out tomorrow! It’ll never catch on.

41723 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #703 of 729 🔗

It’s about 18 degrees and threatening rain, but not raining in London today. I was wearing a t-shirt and it was fine (but I grew up in Newcastle, so others’ mileage may vary).

I’ve been to a local park with the same friend and had some tins while our boys (who are in the same class) played in the last few weeks. Honestly, that was better.

41726 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #704 of 729 🔗

Cheaper too. The pubs will have to learn fast!

41731 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #705 of 729 🔗

MUCH cheaper. I suddenly clocked that the beer I’d been getting delivered from my favourite brewery was staggeringly less expensive than it was from a tap. About £3-4 less per pint.

41763 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #706 of 729 🔗

Wow! There’s over heads and ……

41730 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 1, #707 of 729 🔗

Must bring back memories of Saturday nights in the Bigg Market – not a coat or jumper in sight!

41732 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #708 of 729 🔗

Aye, but nowhere to go for a fight or a kebab! And much less chance of getting lucky.

41736 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to matt, 2, #709 of 729 🔗

Luck has been cancelled for the duration!

41744 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 2, #710 of 729 🔗

Simon Dolan says 2 hour timeslots are not enforceable – not law…

41755 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 1, #711 of 729 🔗

I’m not about to make a fuss to be able to stay in a situation I wasn’t enjoying very much anyway.

41767 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #712 of 729 🔗

I suppose if seats are rationed through a booking system, the timeslots are inevitable. So much for spontaneity!

41749 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to matt, 1, #713 of 729 🔗

I mean, why would anyone want to put up with that? I don’t blame you for giving it a miss. We are dying to know how the miserable git who runs our local pub is going on. My OH cycled past and saw 6 blokes round a table sitting really close to each other. M.G. will have been having a bloody baby, honestly!

41754 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #714 of 729 🔗

Was curious and I hadn’t been to a pub for 4 months.

It’s a bit rubbish. There’s no appeal. I can get alcohol and tables elsewhere. The pub (in general) is going to need to wise up very quickly, or it’s gone for good. This would be a tragedy for the country.

42094 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to matt, #715 of 729 🔗

My husband and I went out for a meal in our local. The manager and staff were wearing mask and gloves, there we’re a lot of council signs and some orientation signs (one way journey, pathways and exits).

All the signs are very badly designed council signs, are printed on A4, laminated, the arrows and pathways are made of hazard tape.

This sounds awful but all of it is at extreme aesthetic odds to the design of the place. So in fact it is amusing and eye-rolling, whatever mood you’re in.

They’ve got to play the game. But they think it will all be gone soon. Not least because the signs will fall down.

What was more worrying was the council rang to try to book a table for 10. The manager said they can’t accept that. Then whoever rang tried lots of other ways to book a table that didn’t follow rules. Then they said it was the council calling checking they were following the rules. Are the rules guidance? Are they law? Could a local council stop a pub trading if not following rules?

I know it sounds terrible all this mask wearing and laminated signs, but I think we should go. I honestly don’t think going to the pub normalises or accepts this and we can all laugh at it and take pictures and do our own investigations like this when we go. There should lots to learn and see.

If we don’t go, then I fear they will go out of business and we don’t want that to happen. By going we also don’t (by accident) fall into the “afraid” camp… people assume lots from surveys of regulars not attending. By going we can lead by example and hopefully try to influence a few around us to come too.

I honestly think the whole thing is ridiculous and I’m really angry about it, but I don’t think that will entice others out from under the bed.

41746 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella, #716 of 729 🔗

They don’t deserve your custom, the moronic jobsworths on steroids! You’ll be able to afford some really decent booze for Christmas.

41717 Cheezilla, 12, #717 of 729 🔗

Jenathan Reynolds (Shadow W&P Secretary) finally highlights the pressing issue:

“I cannot understand why the employment side of this crisis is not the main thing people are talking about. They can see it around them. The furlough scheme has touched every community.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/04/labour-unemployment-could-go-way-beyond-anything-weve-experienced

Unfortunately, he doesn’t go on to point out that lifting lockdown asap would help avoid further job losses and help us get the economy moving again!

However, if it gets some attention for the pending unemployment catastrophe, I suppose it’s a start.

41734 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #718 of 729 🔗

You posted exactly the same the other day – are you on automatic?

41735 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #719 of 729 🔗

Automatic for the sheeple

41773 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #720 of 729 🔗

Trollbot?

41740 steve, 2, #721 of 729 🔗

2 pubs.one quite nice

One bigger chain with signs everywhere

41747 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #722 of 729 🔗

Imagine living with these people.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/stay-fk-away-convoy-scottish-nationalists-attempt-blockade-english-border-2904148

They market the Scottish warm welcome across the world.

‘Stay the f**k away’: Convoy of Scottish nationalists attempt ‘blockade’ on English border
Group warns motorists travelling from England to stay out of Scotland.

41753 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #723 of 729 🔗

Please consider English Nationalist’s – if there is such a thing – doing likewise and the response that would bring.

41781 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #724 of 729 🔗

Maybe Hadrian was right?

41783 mjr, 1, #725 of 729 🔗

for anyone still here . saturday’s blog now available

41796 Kristian Short, replying to Kristian Short, 3, #726 of 729 🔗

Spoke to Oncologist yesterday in S West. Three year wait for bowel screenings.

41862 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Kristian Short, #727 of 729 🔗

!!!!!!! Fuckadoodledo

42258 Nessimmersion, #728 of 729 🔗

Noticed earlier that some medical types are following this discussion.
Question: Why is Covid 19 not attenuated by relative humidity?
Is it not more probable that it is a contact transmitted virus like Norovirus?
After all we were originally told its not a flu ad nauseum.

42330 stefarm, #729 of 729 🔗

Just got an email from my local football club.

CLUB BRANDED FACE MASKS. These will also be useful given that Face Masks are already mandatory on public transport, and soon will be in shops too. Our Face Masks are not medical grade, but are washable and are two-ply polyester

Not medical grade!!! God save me

And to add insult to injury.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/03/us/arizona-vintage-store-mask-sign-trnd/index.html

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