Last updated2020-07-05T22:15:55



42581 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 5, #2 of 1372 🔗

HCQ in the headlines again. Positive news. Could this be a back door way of heralding a suitable treatment in lieu of a vaccine?

42592 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark H, 1, #3 of 1372 🔗

Do you have a link?

42596 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark H, 8, #4 of 1372 🔗

Will they be able to make gobs of money from it?
That’s a no then.

42617 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Mark H, 18, #5 of 1372 🔗

As already mentioned, Big Pharma can’t make any money from HCQ. Hence, the dodgy “trials” to attempt to discredit it. In fact, the original study that the WHO relied on when they originally recommended not to use it was based on completely fraudulent data. You would think that the fact that a potentially life-saving treatment was discredited due to fake data would be a huge scandal but it seems it barely merits a mention in the msm. Who is investigating this? Is anyone? I think we know the answer. I’ve believed for a while that HCQ, used correctly, is effective. Otherwise, why all the dishonest attempts to stop it’s use? I think HCQ tablets cost about 10c each. By contrast, a 5-day treatment with Remdesivir costs $2300. Remdesivir offers the miraculous ability to reduce recovery time by 4 days. It’s not even known whether it actually makes people recover who wouldn’t have otherwise. WTF?

42624 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Chicot, 8, #6 of 1372 🔗

No prizes for guessing which drug the American insurers want doctors to prescribe…..

42696 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Chicot, 9, #7 of 1372 🔗

Trump Derangement Syndrome is similar to rabies in the passage of the disease. It affects the operation of the normal rational faculties so that the patient believes anything Trump says or does is by definition wrong, dangerous and might start a third world war. In its tertiary stage sufferers exhibit frothing at the mouth and an inability to control their urinary function. We can see these effects in reporters like Robert More, Jon Sopel, Katty Kay, Anthony Kurcher and – well – just about everyone at the BBC, Sky and ITV.

42826 ▶▶ LIAM FULLER, replying to Mark H, #8 of 1372 🔗

Check out Dr Zalenko on HCQ – he was on the HIGHWIRE with Del Bigtree.

42582 T. Prince, 9, #9 of 1372 🔗

The usual must watch from Ivor….


42591 Paul B, replying to Paul B, 9, #10 of 1372 🔗

What is it with all the talk radio presenters who question (well… accuse their guest of something) and then end with an insulting, inciting ‘is it?’ at the end of every soapbox statement they make. So snarky and argumentative. Paddy and Mike and the rest of them, hard to listen to.

In fairness to Hugh he gave better than he got, hence the sudden rude cut off of the interview.

42594 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Paul B, 24, #11 of 1372 🔗

The presenter was no match for Osmond, like the one who interviewed Sumption. Put them up against someone intelligent, with balls, who is not intimidated, and they fall apart. I doubt they are used to being questioned or confronted with people who don’t agree with them and are not afraid to say it. Most mainstream politicians in the UK are too simpering to cause interviewers a problem.

42600 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 9, #12 of 1372 🔗

The mainstream politicians don’t actually answer the questions and nowadays, the presenters let them get away with it.

Osmond certainly did answer the questions and it must have thrown the presenter for 6, especially after Prof Susan Takingthemickey had been churning out the usual propaganda seconds earlier.

42628 ▶▶ Simon H, replying to Paul B, #13 of 1372 🔗

Couldn’t agree more. You could feel the worry fizzling through Paddy and the use of the words ‘explosive criticism’ on several occasions in an attempt to paint Hugh as some kind of outlier to the norm

42595 ted, replying to ted, 10, #14 of 1372 🔗

Thanks for the update on testing. I too have noticed the mess in terms of public health data the states are releasing in the US. Texas for example, seems to lump antibody and pcr testing together and makes no attempt to show positive tests by date sample was taken, as opposed to when it was reported to the state. So, the “wave” in Texas reflects the increase in reports of testing to the state, not incidence of people presenting with illness. The number of deaths reported remain low, and again, these are deaths that may have occurred at any time in the past. Another interesting empirical trend can be observed at the national level. While “cases” leaped up in mid-June, covid associated deaths reported continues to slowly decline, now three weeks later. Deaths should be increasing rapidly by now, but they are not.

42662 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to ted, 4, #15 of 1372 🔗

Take a look at this analysis, Ivor talks about US States from about 16 minutes in..see what happens when he alters the red graph in line with population size! Then watch the ‘evidence for’ and ‘evidence against’ lockdowns


42599 matt, replying to matt, 80, #16 of 1372 🔗

I mentioned this in a reply to a reply to a reply a few hours ago on yesterday’s page. Suspect it got lost in the noise, and I hadn’t yet found the link anyway, but either way I’m surprised not to have seen it more heavily posted before here, or indeed by Toby


Key quote:
“ In just one month, the number of new cases at the head trauma unit of Great Ormond Street Hospital rose by 1,493 per cent compared with the same period in the previous three years, which consultants said pointed to a “silent pandemic”

This is the largest children’s hospital in the country, but it is only one children’s hospital.

If you can seriously look me in the eye and tell me that lockdown was worthwhile, when the casualties of the disease have a median age of over 80 and the victims of the the policy include a nearly 15 fold increase in serious physical child abuse, you are despicable.

42602 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 8, #17 of 1372 🔗

Wow Matt. The media certainly didn’t make much of that story. Shame on them!

42605 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 30, #18 of 1372 🔗

That is truly shocking. Add to that partners, the majority of whom are women, and the suicides that are directly attributable to the lockdown. As I said yesterday, Boris, Hancock et al must know this, but seemingly don’t care. It is beyond shameful.

42715 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 18, #19 of 1372 🔗

It was widely predicted as soon as the prison doors were slammed.
Pity old Pantsdown wasn’t asked to model it. A prediction that every child in Britain would be abused might have attracted just a little attention.

Not that every child in Britain isn’t being abused, in another way, of course. Robbed of every childhood joy by Covid-hysterical muggers.

42799 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to annie, 8, #20 of 1372 🔗

Agree Annie, all of this was easy enough to predict, without recourse to complicated modelling. Shame on the whole lot of them for their arrogance, ignorance and down-right criminality.

42606 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 26, #21 of 1372 🔗

Horrifying. And they still think we should stay at home to protect the NHS?

Slightly related, I saw a poster on a bus stop during my walk which had the shocking statistic that domestic violence has gone up to nearly 50% which is truly shocking.

The costs of lockdown and antisocial distancing is getting bigger and bigger and yet many are still in denial.

42679 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #22 of 1372 🔗

I think ‘lockdown damage denier’ would be a useful meme for us to begin using.

42721 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 10, #23 of 1372 🔗

I think that’s a good way to describe those who still support lockdown and antisocial dsitancing.

42794 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to JohnB, 7, #24 of 1372 🔗

In the meantime I’ll just use ‘stupid idiots’ or ‘masked morons’

42812 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to T. Prince, 6, #25 of 1372 🔗

Yeah, yeah, I use those too sometimes. And worse. 🙂

Context, audience, etc. etc. 🙂

42613 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 24, #26 of 1372 🔗

Ordinarily, the media would be falling over themselves to cover a rise in child abuse (unless of course it involves one of their own ;p). They bloody love child abuse, it sells so many papers.

But when it doesn’t fit their wider agenda? -Nope.

42638 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Farinances, 30, #27 of 1372 🔗

Does anybody have a twitter account and Naga bloody Munchetty’s twitter address? Send her this article and a summary and dare her – dare her – to respond by saying lockdown was important because it saved lives.

This has made me so angry I can barely think straight. And this is only the ones we know about – god knows what more has been hidden because the poor little mites aren’t having social worker visits “because of Covid” and aren’t going to school because they’re closed.

42694 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 5, #28 of 1372 🔗

It’s true some people, like social workers, GPs, charity workers, police and teachers, have not been caring for these families during the lockdown – but there is one band of dedicated workers who have been there every day of the crisis ensuring these families’ needs are met. I speak of course of the doughty drug dealers up and down the land who have made sure the parents of these poor children get their passports to oblivion, come what may. They need their own clap.

42771 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 1, #29 of 1372 🔗

Feeling for you matt, understanding your anger. I have acted an written to like papers asking for coverage. Will update. I wouldn’t usually have written now -just give news of any real development- but at least there’s a tiny bit of something. I don’t/won’t twitter.

42671 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, 8, #30 of 1372 🔗

If they mention it may take attention away from BLM, and they wouldn’t want that after investing so much in it.

42692 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Farinances, 9, #31 of 1372 🔗

Er yes…we’ve seen that pattern somewhere else before haven’t we? Hear no evil,see no Savile, speak no Sharia.

42796 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to OKUK, 1, #32 of 1372 🔗

Ah yes, the Beebs resident pervert

42927 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to T. Prince, 1, #33 of 1372 🔗

I liked someone’s description that he was hiding in plain sight as a pedophille.

This is horrifyimg, especially the media blackout.

42678 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to matt, 13, #34 of 1372 🔗

Where are the charities who tell us they look out for children?

42695 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dave #KBF, 11, #35 of 1372 🔗

Staying safe…in the leafy suburbs.

42691 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 9, #36 of 1372 🔗

Thanks for the link. This is truly shocking and shameful.

Head trauma will include long terms effects including behavioural ones that will lead to loss of inhibition and so involvement in dangerous activities including criminal ones. We shouldn’t be in any doubt that the lockdown will have inflicted on some children a life sentence of misery.

42693 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to matt, 12, #37 of 1372 🔗

Children of all ages have born the brunt of this – and they now get to live in a country forever scared by what has happened. I was fortunate enough to get to live half my life in what appeared to be a free and therefore prosperous country – it seems they will not get that either.

The majority of the people in this country could not care less though and just don’t want to know they have no problem with turning a blind eye. I am sure once they realise they are screwed too they will start to blame everyone but themselves but they will never care about the harm they helped to actualise for others with their willfull ignorance and blind conformity.

43373 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Saved To Death, 5, #38 of 1372 🔗

I’m getting increasingly worried about my older boy. He’s 8 and he’s always been a little over sensitive, but he seems to have completely lost the ability to regulate his emotions in the last few weeks. The slightest thing is a drama that provokes absolute hysterics – several times a day. Today he spent half the day shut in his room with the blind drawn and the light off, reading. I’m all in favour of alone time (and would chew my own arm off to get some for myself) but he’s never done that before.

Maybe it’s just a developmental phase. My wife is convinced he’s depressed and I can’t find much of a reason to disagree with her. But if you’re depressed at 8, that’s a long old slog of difficult life you have ahead of you.

43375 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 5, #39 of 1372 🔗

That’s very sad. Two weeks’ ago I was in a queue to get into the butcher’s and I got chatting with this lady behind me. She’s not happy that she’s lost her job (she was supposed to be in a play but that got cancelled/postponed). Plus she’s very worried about her son, he’s roughly the age as your boy and according to her he’s been sad – missing school, his friends, activities, etc. We agreed that this lockdown has been insane and cruel. Children will be scarred by this and they will carry all of this madness until the end of their lives.

43890 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, #40 of 1372 🔗

Insane and cruel is pretty good. But you won’t see that mentioned in the mainstream anywhere.

43399 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to matt, 3, #41 of 1372 🔗

Matt. Make sure he’s not on his own too much. He may be terrified he’s going to lose you. Keep him close if you can.

43417 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to matt, 7, #42 of 1372 🔗

For my 13 year old it has completely changed his life and he has been shut off. Even now none of his friends wish to meet up in the park where they used to meet up and play almost daily after school, none of his friends wish to visit to play games which they used to do frequently. He used to enjoy the after school activities such as horse riding and they have stopped. His days out that he was looking forward too have all been cancelled. He asks ‘When is lockdown going to end?’ and I don’t know the answer. I try to present a positive outlook despite the fact that I am not positive about this situation at all. I try to explain to him that what has been done is not something we should consider acceptable. His school seems intent on ensuring that when they do get to attend again that they do not interact with each other at all even on the way to and from school, but despite almost permitting him back for a couple of days a week that has not yet happened. His entire previously active and care free life has been terminated just like that. The anger I feel towards the people responsible and the people who support this is difficult to describe. He seems to be coping better then I would have imagined but I am aware that at that age they can keep a lot hidden away.

My 3 year old had just started attending nursery and he really enjoyed this a lot. I could see him growing almost everyday becoming more confident, learning new words and songs. He would sing to himself all the time. I think its easier to shield a 3 year old from this insanity but it is clear that his growth that was bounding along has largely stopped. We used to take him out all the time and his life was full of new and fun things on an almost daily basis. Thankfully his nursery is a lot more sane then my 13 year olds school and they seem to be trying to keep things as normal as they can. He has been able to go back since last week but so far he has declined to go. Hopefully we will persuade him to go back soon.

Those responsible for creating this reality at all levels have a lot to answer for. I still wake up and struggle to come to terms with this new reality where the state can destroy peoples lives on the basis of fabricated evidence and outright lies, where the MSN can subject people to daily terror and this is considered OK. Thankfully I still have my job and its secure for the foreseeable future, its hard to imagine what it must be like for someone to be in this position but to have lost their job also, or to be in this position and be couped up in a flat struggling to make ends meet – at the end of the day we still have a lot left to loose.

If subjecting 70 odd million people to this is not considered criminal then clearly our justice system needs replacing and it seems that is the only way there will ever be justice. I just cant see a future where that happens though it seems we are not going to stop with this destruction of everything we once had and things are only going to get much harder.

43423 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Saved To Death, #43 of 1372 🔗

Hopefully we will persuade him to go back soon.

Maybe just take him there and see how he reacts ?

44745 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to JohnB, #44 of 1372 🔗

Even at 3 I try to always be honest and allow him choice wherever possible so if we are going out somewhere I feel I have to tell him where we are going and would not want to trick him.

44892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Saved To Death, #45 of 1372 🔗

I can understand the sentiment, STD. Always tried to be honest with our kids too. At the age of 3 though, abstract thinking is only just kicking in. Even the pressure of deciding himself may be a factor.

Why not tell him you’re going there in order to talk to the Nursery Teacher ? (Would be true). If he makes the choice to stay once you are there, all good. If he really is distressed, bring him home, obviously. All the best anyhow.

42601 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #46 of 1372 🔗

I went to look at the Mail article. Having decided to turn off as many cookies as possible, I clicked the manage button, rather than the accept one. I kid you not, there are literally hundreds of them. No wonder it takes so long for the page to load!

42677 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #47 of 1372 🔗

If you’re running IE11, go to the Restricted Sites option then add these sites:


Voila! No adverts or popups on The Daily Mail, and it loads straight away.

If anyone knows how to do this on Edge, please let me know!

42819 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #48 of 1372 🔗

Thanks. I use Firefox but will certainly look into it.

43271 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to Cheezilla, #49 of 1372 🔗

If you’re using Google Chrome, add the DuckDuckGo browser extension. Stops all ads. https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/duckduckgo-privacy-essent/bkdgflcldnnnapblkhphbgpggdiikppg

42604 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #51 of 1372 🔗

But despite still recording daily highs in infections, some Texans refused to be cowed by the deadliest virus sweeping the planet today.

Cue roling-eyes emoji!

42610 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #52 of 1372 🔗

She is going anywhere for a story

waste of space she is

42629 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #53 of 1372 🔗

I see her as a safe pair of hands to get the report they need not the story there is.

42614 ▶▶ Julian, replying to HawkAnalyst, #54 of 1372 🔗

Predictions are so direly inaccurate?

42608 karate56, 21, #55 of 1372 🔗

Just read that the rate of false positives for pillar 2 testing is about 2.3% (Carl Henegan) This means most tests are utterly invalid and policy based on this data is simply criminal nonsense.
I also read SAGE has no idea of the false positive rate (and generally no idea about anything). Its so bad its untrue

42612 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 35, #56 of 1372 🔗

Yes, the pubs opened, and in some ways it was closer to ‘normal’ than I expected. But where we are now is that it doesn’t feel like a one-way progression. The government engineered the Leicester re-lockdown just before ‘Super Saturday’ in order to emphasise that we are merely being lent some freedom, and it can be taken away again at any time. They really are prepared to do anything to cover their arses on the lockdown disaster they have created.

When people say that the pubs re-opening won’t generate a new ‘spike’, I agree that is the case, obviously. But that won’t stop the government from creating one.

42647 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Barney McGrew, 13, #57 of 1372 🔗

Went to pub this pm, scowled at as didn’t have a booking but table found for the two of us. Table had a plastic card which explained the rules but I’d forgotten glasses and anyway you needed a phone with a QR reader or something . Order taken manually. Loo had instructions that you had to lock it as soon as you entered despite there being a one and a half wall of urinal trough -didn’t bother with that and nor had the fella who emerged from a cubicle. 1m signs all over the place. Draught beer remarkably good but not a great experience .

42616 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 34, #58 of 1372 🔗

“Why are so many healthcare workers so rotund and slovenly? Back in my day, we were trim and healthy working 50 hour weeks and doing all the cleaning. Us nurses wore smart dresses with belts and caps. On a recent stay in a half empty ward, the nursing staff ordered pizza and other takeaway foods and sat at the nurses station all night. Lazy, fat nurses with time to make dancing videos.”

Above copied and pasted from comments section of Daily Mail article about today’s NHS non-clap.

Exactly my experience. In 2013, my father, aged 87 years, lay dying from final-stage Parkinson’s Disease for 9 weeks in an NHS Scotland geriatric ward. I visited twice a day for approx 63 days. This was exactly my experience of the nurses on the ward, with one or 2 exceptions who worked hard, professionally and with compassion. The others, total waste of space. I observed my father’s, and other immobile patients’, bed calling bells going unanswered while nurses chatted at the nurses’ station only metres away. several times I had to go and plead for nursing help as my father, or one of the 3 other elderly gentlemen in his side alcove, were desperate to pass urine, or worse. Total humiliation for these senior citizens at the end of their lives.

42621 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Gillian, 27, #59 of 1372 🔗

I share your anger and I’m sorry for what you have been through.

I had a similar experience with my late mum. Nurses who made you feel like you were an inconvenience for asking pertinent questions. Each time I needed to speak to a nurse in charge, I was invariably told they were on their ‘coffee break’. I only discovered eight months after my mum’s untimely death what had happened to her and that’s because I had to make a bloody nuisance of myself. What they did to her and what they made me go through after her death was a disgrace.

42637 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to kh1485, 35, #60 of 1372 🔗

My Mum too. She had broken her hip and the night nurses left her half hanging out of the bed, her throat lodged over the bed rail. She couldn’t move and was struggling to breathe. The other patients in the side ward tried to call for help and just got told crossly “we are on our tea break! We’ll come when we’ve finished.” I removed my Mum from the hospital the next day, broken hip and all. Clap for the NHS? Never.

42642 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to CarrieAH, 20, #61 of 1372 🔗

How awful, truly despicable. On the ward my mum spent her final hours on (mercifully, she was unconscious), the treatment meted out to the other ladies on the ward was horrible. One lady couldn’t reach the water they had left just out of reach so I moved it closer to her and another one was spoken to like she was a naughty child. There was no gentleness especially in the way they kept checking my mum’s blood pressure, it was awful. As you say, clap for the NHS? never for me either.

42700 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to kh1485, 10, #62 of 1372 🔗

That is so sad and utterly appalling. Stressful too. We shouldn’t be having to fight the NHS staff as well at a time when we are stressed enough about our loved ones. I knew I was taking my Mum home to die, because she was so very sick with many other medical problems. But I couldn’t let her die in that awful place, I wanted her in her own bed surrounded by people she knew and trusted. As it was, that’s exactly what happened. I sat with her as she left her body in her own bed, admittedly with a lot of morphine for pain, but at least with familiar and loving people around her. What you say about the water happened on her ward too. Her water was always out of reach and nobody had bothered to try to feed her anything. Appalling nursing.

42724 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to CarrieAH, 7, #63 of 1372 🔗

Oh Carrie, I’m so very, very sorry. It’s so sad when someone posts something about the NHS on here and the very awful experiences we have all had come tumbling out.

I wish I had known that my mum was in the final stages of her life. I went into the hospital fully expecting to take her home that evening or the next day. Instead, I emerged into the cold dark early hours of a January morning without my mum. If they had told me the truth, she could have stayed in her home and I could have made her final hours so much less wretched.

When I finally secured meetings with the hospital, GPs and ambulance service, I was made to feel like my experience was not at all common. And I am now realising it was – sadly.

42712 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 18, #64 of 1372 🔗

Especially when you hear of a wife of fifty years being refused permission to sit beside her dying husband because of Covid hysteria, although neither he nor she was infected.
They were members of our church. Did the rector make any representations to the hospital? What do you think?

42722 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 4, #65 of 1372 🔗

Let me guess, the rector was never around.

42726 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 6, #66 of 1372 🔗

Sadly, that doesn’t surprise me. The vicar in my village offered me ‘pastoral care’ a year ago last November – I’m still waiting! And for my mum’s funeral they charged me £48 for heating the church!

42859 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 4, #67 of 1372 🔗

On the child abuse increase too.

Where is the church or any religious leader actually.

When needed most they were walking by on the other side of the road.

42745 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to kh1485, 2, #68 of 1372 🔗

kh, just checking you have seen that your establishment may well be mentioned on Talk Radio today, when Peter Hitchens talks with Mike Graham. It is on a tweet by Mike, retweeted by Peter this morning..

42749 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, 1, #69 of 1372 🔗

Hi Carrie

Just replied to your earlier post – thanks v. much for the info’, wouldn’t have known otherwise …

42775 ▶▶▶ percy openshaw, replying to kh1485, 12, #70 of 1372 🔗

Same sort of experience with my poor mother, a few years ago now, dumped in a virtually abandoned hospital between Christmas and New Year. Without a flicker of irony, the staff said they operated a “skeleton” service. They had X-rayed mum but failed to note the quite obvious water on the lung and treated her all night for angina. Is negligence of this order seriously being ascribed to lack of funds? Were they so exhausted they couldn’t even read an X-ray properly? I saw the image myself, once we had complained. The consultant, whom we consulted privately the following January, flashed it up on his screen. The great blobs and swellings of liquid in the thorax were such a text book case, he was ashamed. I’m convinced that Mum’s sufferings that night contributed to her premature decease a few months later. The NHS is despicable – slothful, inefficient, careless, fly-blown, filthy, entitled, arrogant and murderous. It is to the body what Leyland was to internal combustion and it should be pulverised – replaced by responsive, effective private care.

42788 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to percy openshaw, 5, #71 of 1372 🔗

I disagree, put the NHS back in the hands of the compassionate clinicians, not the career-climbing bureaucrats that have deconstructed and politicilised it over the years.

Free heathcare for all at the point of delivery.

42795 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #72 of 1372 🔗

Agree with that. Perfect time to start delayering, starting at the top!

42831 ▶▶▶▶▶ percy openshaw, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #73 of 1372 🔗

Fine – but supplied by the market, not the state. What’s wrong with paying the equivalent of national insurance to a private insurance company? At least it won’t be filched by other departments to disguise the need for tax; and it will mean competition between hospitals (and insurance companies) for the best care at the best prices, driving standards up. The lowest standards in a competitive situation are better than the usually fictional ideals set by a government. And those who can’t pay their premiums for one reason or another could be granted state assistance. It works for food, for cars, for clothing, for all the necessities of life so why not for medical attention?

42856 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to percy openshaw, 9, #74 of 1372 🔗

This is almost exactly the German system. Healthcare providers are independent, paid for by insurance. It does have the benefit that you end up with well-funded, well-functioning health facilities and an efficient system that does a good job of looking after patients. By default, you are insured by the state, through what is effectively a tax payment, or you can choose to opt out of that and opt into private insurance, in which case you don’t pay that tax.

42901 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to matt, 2, #75 of 1372 🔗

Great system, makes much more sense, all insured and will definitely work better.

42937 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to percy openshaw, #76 of 1372 🔗

What about people without income, or very little income?

43008 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ percy openshaw, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #77 of 1372 🔗

They would receive the state support which I mentioned in the outline policy. Their premiums would be largely or wholly paid.

43057 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to percy openshaw, #78 of 1372 🔗

Fair enough, I missed that.

My wife works for a private organisation (charity) fulfilling NHS provision under contract, she gets so frustrated because she can’t give the best quality care due to time=money.

Strip the NHS back to it roots and prune the pointless jobs off.

Getting rid off the NHS, careful what you wish for……

43229 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #79 of 1372 🔗

could i say fuck ’em and still have you like me Winston?

43355 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, #80 of 1372 🔗

🤣 yes Biker, we’re still friends 🤗

42873 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #81 of 1372 🔗

With you winston. The NHS is (was) a massive human achievement.

Others will know more than me but hollowed out for that past 20?30? years. Imagine the thing without the managment trying to rip it apart for their political masters. See common purpose NHS towards a million change agents. UK column.

Compassionate clinicians yes.

42944 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Basics, 2, #82 of 1372 🔗

I started my nursing career in ’86, in my local general hospital’s School of Nursing. I bore witness to many things, positive and negative, over 20 years. Nothing positive from any government intervention, from either colour.

I’ve been proud to work with most skilled, professional, caring, compassionate and dedicated front line staff you would ever meet. But also, some of the worst. Tolerance isn’t always a virtue.

43226 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Winston Smith, #83 of 1372 🔗

How’s it free when the armed wing of the government force me to pay for it?

43357 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, #84 of 1372 🔗

Free at the point of delivery for anyone Biker.

42809 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to percy openshaw, 6, #85 of 1372 🔗

How awful for you. I think there are some good guys but they appear to be outnumbered by the callous and the indifferent. Or that was my experience anyway. Sadly, I think it is about showing you who is boss.

If they had been half as rigorous with telling me exactly what was wrong with my mum (hyponatremia) as they were when I was virtually rugby-tackled for daring to take some flowers in for her in her stay in hospital the week before she died, I might have been able to save her. They told me she was “lacking a few vitamins” which didn’t sound that serious. She was, at that stage, very seriously ill and I was totally unaware. Because of their hideous treatment of her, I had to read her post mortem, a procedure I actually begged them not to perform. For that act of barbarity, I will never, ever forgive them.

42832 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 5, #86 of 1372 🔗

They almost killed my DH because they overmedicated him and caused him hyponatremia.

Worse, we’d seen four different nurses and doctors over the previous couple of weeks who, even though they had a list of his drugs in front of them, didn’t spot what was wrong with him.

Fortunately, when we finally called out the emergency GP to our home, he sussed it straight away and bounced DH off to hospital, where he recovered after a night on a drip.

A few weeks later, I bumped into a friend who’s a pharmacist and started describing DH’s symptoms to her. She interrupted, saying “Those are classic symptoms of sodium deficiency!”

No drug list, didn’t even have the patient in front of her. Just knew her stuff!

42854 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #87 of 1372 🔗

I didn’t realise overmedication (another thing they subjected my poor mum to) causes hyponatremia. They just told me it was because she drank too many liquids which I disputed … I’d be very interested to learn what type of pills you are referring to. Just adds to my belief that I was fobbed off …

42834 ▶▶▶▶▶ percy openshaw, replying to kh1485, 7, #88 of 1372 🔗

I don’t blame you. I found my father struggling for breath and wishing to die when he was in an NHS dump this January. I insisted they examine him which they were very reluctant to do. His blood pressure was 62 over 29. They sped up then, I can tell you and we launched a complaint – now delayed, of course, thanks to “Covid”. The health service is a typical socialist failure and should be abolished in favour of a regulated insurance market funding regulated but independent sources of medical care. It is now an urgent, humanitarian necessity.

42855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to percy openshaw, 2, #89 of 1372 🔗

I agree entirely. But whenever you mention the words “insurance” and “NHS” in the same sentence you are howled down.

43010 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ percy openshaw, replying to kh1485, 4, #90 of 1372 🔗

Time to keep mentioning it, then. The screaming mob has to be defeated. Their recourse to screams masks emptiness and victory belongs to those willing to fight. It is my aim to set up a Campaign for the Privatisation of Health – the CPH. From small beginnings…

43125 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to percy openshaw, 1, #91 of 1372 🔗

The sooner the better.

42650 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, 6, #92 of 1372 🔗

Gillian, that must have been awful for both you and your father.

My father had Parkinson’s. He was in a care home and the staff were lovely. He succumbed to a urine infection and I was always glad for him that he never had to endure the end stage of the disease.

Parkison’s is a very cruel affliction. What your father suffered, and what you had to witness must have been a terrible experience for you both.

42669 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Cheezilla, 15, #93 of 1372 🔗

One of the despicable things about NHS protocols and Parkinsons is that if a patient is admitted, the hospital withdraws all medication then restarts according to what its own doctors decide.
Parkinsons can be likened to a series of decreasing plateaus, withdrawing treatment causes a drop to the next one down.
So the NHS protocol causes the damage when a patient is stable on medication.
The other appalling thing is that UK parkinsons drugs are in the form of large tablets.
One of the symptoms of Parkinsons is difficulty in swallowing.
FFS – patient focused my arse.
I know this from close personal acquaintance with someone now deceased years early due to inept & casually cruel treatment by OUR SODDING NHS

42672 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nessimmersion, 11, #94 of 1372 🔗

My mother is in early stages of Parkinson’s. Had to intervene to get her the medication – the Parkinson’s team had been trying to fob her off with physiotherapy! Had various heated discussions with the head of the team over the efficacy of drug treatments. She got the necessary prescription. I had already been into battle with the same health trust the previous year when she fell twice and ended up in hospital, then intermediate care. They know who I am (a scientist), and they know I do not back down. It shouldn’t be this way.

42676 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #95 of 1372 🔗

Good on you.
You’ll have to continually push.
Swallowing difficulty is one I noted and some of the medication should be available in liquid form.
Just watch if she is admitted to hospital for any reason, they can withdraw all medication, then prescribe according to their own lights, with the deleterious effects on the patient not even considered.
It’s 10 years in the past for me, but I do remember that Parkinsons therapy was considerably more advanced abroad than in the comfort zone NHS.

42740 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nessimmersion, 7, #96 of 1372 🔗

Thanks for this. I will certainly remember. I live more than 200 miles away, as does my brother. We work together to make sure she gets what she needs. He is more easy going, but equally firm. Again, it shouldn’t be this way, but as I am actually Dr TT, the receiver of a telephone message or email tends to tread carefully. I have also found that asking the senior nurse ‘can I see my mother’s care plan’, or the doctor ‘as you have signed the discharge letter, does that mean you are the person liable if she falls again because her living circumstances have not been assessed’ seems to garner a rather rapid response!

42714 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #97 of 1372 🔗

I knew a lady who had advanced Parkinson’s. Hospital meals were dumped on her bedside table, where she couldn’t reach them, and removed, untouched, an hour or so later, without comment or investigation. When her husband found out, he started going in every meal time, a twenty-mile round trip, to help her eat.

42737 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to annie, 8, #98 of 1372 🔗

I know this happens, and it seems to be related to the emergence of ‘degree-trained’ nurses and/or the increasing propensity to contract out many hospital services from the early 2000s. I remember a conversation several years ago with an ‘old school’ nurse who said part of her training had been a demonstration where one trainee nurse was strapped to a hospital bed, totally incapacitated, and had to reach food and water placed on the bedside table. They either don’t realise or they don’t care – I favour the latter!

42837 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #99 of 1372 🔗

I think the training is bad.
For example, have you had your BP taken in hospital recently? They break every rule in the BP-taking book!

43027 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, #100 of 1372 🔗

And have you seen how they do blood glucose? Straight in the middle of the finger pad. All diabetics know to use the sides of the fingers, but that’s just anecdotal.

A “diabetes nurse” told her patient

“If yiou test your blood you will damage your fingers and then you woin’t be able to read braille when you go blind”

words fail;

Thinking about it I don’t know anyone who had a good death on the NHS. First ambulance for ages down the street, I’m tempted to hope she dies quickly.

42835 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #101 of 1372 🔗

Unfortunately, that’s common.

42690 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Gillian, 10, #102 of 1372 🔗

Think we’ve all had similar experiences with elderly relatives’ needs being ignored by NHS staff. Sometimes one can see it is because they are overworked and busy but many times it is sheer disinterest,selfishness or ignorance that leads them to ignore elderly people. I found a huge contrast with care home staff who in my experience appeared much better attuned to the needs of the elderly. One of the most absurd things is the way food (often looking like a pile of doo doo) is just dumped on elderly and confused patients who are unable to reach it, or to to feed themselves (especially while left half supine on the bed).

42842 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, 2, #103 of 1372 🔗

I had an op last year. Pre-surgery, the staff were fantastic. I was asked to wait on a different ward because there wasn’t a bed for me where I was supposed to end up.

There was a huge backlog of surgery patients due to the bed-shortage – I was asked to present at 7.30am but they couldn’t take me to theatre till 3.30pm.

The computers were playing up, the cleaners and porters were on strike and the nurses were having to do their jobs too. Yet the care was excellent and done with remarkably good spirits.

The aftercare, on my official ward, was a totally different ballgame. I won’t give you the gory details but be assured it was completely uncaring, absolutely abysmal and I was lucky just to have an overnight stay there.

42756 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Gillian, 9, #104 of 1372 🔗

Yep, welcome to the NHS of today.

When my wife contacted pneumonia in the swine flu epidemic and was ventilated for 3 weeks, multi-organ failure etc the staff in the ITU were great, professional, compassionate and kind. Once she was transferred to the ward (no step-down) I went in every day to perform her care as the staff were unable to care for her properly.

Her first night on the ward, when she asked for her call-bell to be placed near her hand ((having post-critical care paralysis), the nurses response was, “You’re not on Intensive Care now you know!”.

Many years ago, wrote a dissertation on how clinical reflective practice may increase quality of patient care that accompanied a project that a gained funding for. I could talk/write for hours on this subject and I would not tolerate any form of neglect or abuse.

Sadly, the closer I got the DoH, and their toxic culture, I decided to leave heathcare altogether.

Moving nurse education into the Universities was the first nail in the coffin…….

42840 ▶▶▶ percy openshaw, replying to Winston Smith, 5, #105 of 1372 🔗

I think this experience is common – it’s like a layer of icing on a decayed cake – one small incision and the stench of corruption sweeps past the sugar. There are two wards in a particularly grim hospital I know which are like ante-chambers to a morgue.

42618 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 16, #106 of 1372 🔗

Are epidemiologists and ‘public health’ experts a serious danger to public health?

42620 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Major Panic, 15, #107 of 1372 🔗

Ours seem to be. Sweden got lucky.

42632 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Major Panic, 11, #108 of 1372 🔗

Public Health England certainly are. Swedish epidemiologists not so much.

42641 ▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Major Panic, 3, #109 of 1372 🔗

I think the major problem is our science response is very led by mathematical modellers with a poor track record…!

42711 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to coalencanth12, 2, #110 of 1372 🔗

The problem with our scientists is that they know a lot about viruses but not much about anything else like wellbeing

42699 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Major Panic, 8, #111 of 1372 🔗

It seems police chiefs are epidemiologists now also.

42752 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 3, #112 of 1372 🔗

I believe Public Health is going to become a much busier profession from now on. Indications are Public Health and the policing of it will now be the main route to control populations. Public Health appears to be a profession of souless humans who have been common purposed and otherwise compromised. As a profession they have lost compassion, that most critical element of healthcare. Compassion isn’t a trite, cowing to sooth a brow – it is an active principle which keeps humanity in the centre of everything. The Public Health ego cleverly flattered and positioned as leaders in response/population control. Just my thoughts.

42622 TimJ, 3, #113 of 1372 🔗

It might be good to contribute to this site https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/face-masks/
to help stop this mask nonsense!

42634 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to IanE, 4, #115 of 1372 🔗

Poor man. Sadly he isn’t going to be the last suicide I suspect.

42635 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #116 of 1372 🔗

Yes, especially after furlough ends and reality hits!

42636 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #117 of 1372 🔗

Nor the first.

42639 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, 2, #118 of 1372 🔗

Very sad. We’ll be hearing more of this.

42640 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #119 of 1372 🔗

Somehow, it always comes back to handwashing. Simple!


Dr Jefferson believes that many viruses lie dormant throughout the globe and emerge when conditions are favourable. It also means they can vanish as quickly as they arrive. …

“I think the virus was already here, here meaning everywhere. We may be seeing a dormant virus that has been activated by environmental conditions.
Dr Jefferson believes that the virus may be transmitted through the sewage system or shared toilet facilities, not just through droplets expelled by talking, coughing and sneezing. ….

“There is quite a lot of evidence that huge amounts of the virus in sewage all over the place, and an increasing amount of evidence there is faecal transmission. There is a high concentration where sewage is four degrees, which is the ideal temperature for it to be stabled and presumably activated. And meatpacking plants are often at four degrees.
“These meat packing clusters and isolated outbreaks don’t fit with respiratory theory, they fit with people who haven’t washed their hands properly.

42648 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cheezilla, 27, #120 of 1372 🔗

FFS don’t tell Imperial College or we’ll be expecting a terd wave

42674 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, 2, #121 of 1372 🔗


42682 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to John P, 5, #122 of 1372 🔗

Maybe he meant Turd wave from Imperial College.

42653 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #123 of 1372 🔗

Faecal transmission. So they close the public toilets.

42660 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 4, #124 of 1372 🔗

But supplying them with soap would be a really good start!

42683 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #125 of 1372 🔗

Somehow singing Happy Birthday twice while washing my bottom doesn’t seem right.

42657 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #126 of 1372 🔗

Not sure how they would stay dormant as they are quite fragile when out on their own but I did hear someone say in an interview that these coronavirus frequently jump between species. So when they have had enough of humans then they will disappear and jump to another animal.

42665 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #127 of 1372 🔗

This just posted from Carl Heneghan along similar lines:


If only he and Gupta had been influential voices on SAGE!

42666 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #128 of 1372 🔗

I read that Telegraph article and found it very interesting . My experience of covid19 in the community has only been in dementia care homes or those at home who have caught it in the hospital. I would make the observation that most laymen from watching sky/BBC 24/7 would assume that these patients died with lungs full of water as per the horror coronaporn. All in fact died very peacefully with no respiratotry distress after developing a temperature and just going ” off “.

42698 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Peter Thompson, 12, #129 of 1372 🔗

Actually sounds not a bad way to go. Once upon a time we had good old pneumonia, the “old people’s friend” which took those who were frail and and ill. Then somehow it wasn’t allowed to die from that any more, the elderly had to be poked and prodded back into an existence whereby they sat around and did very little and waited for something else to take them. Along came Covid. I thought it sounded a horrid death but your description sounds a fairly good one, as methods of dying go. We all have to die of something, sometime. It’s a part of life and it seems we’ve forgotten that.

42705 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to CarrieAH, 8, #130 of 1372 🔗

Which is why the fuss about DNR concocted by the MSM is so foolish.

Aggressive resus efforts are singularly inappropriate for old frail folk, especially those with dementia.

Many years ago, when doing a temp job as a nursing auxiliary, I recall the wise words of a ward sister: she would know from experience which patients were nearing the end, and tell us to sit with them to try and ensure a peaceful death.

I’ve got a living will and a DNR card and so have several others.

42710 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #131 of 1372 🔗

That’s a crumb of comfort anyway.
‘Died peacefully of establishment manslaughter.’

42849 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #132 of 1372 🔗

What a pity the MSM didn’t let the relatives know that. It would have been some comfort when they weren’t allowed to be with their elderly loved ones.
The fearmongering has certainly caused a great deal of unnecessary suffering.

42670 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #133 of 1372 🔗

Karl Denniger at the Market Ticker has been banging the drum about this for a month+ now.

The virulence of all aerosol transmission of respiratory viruses, without exception, follow very closely the absolute humidity in the region in question.
Covid is still being transmitted in humid US states, indicating the primary vector is not aerosol, it is contact transfer.

42864 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #134 of 1372 🔗

That’s a brilliant article. Thanks.

The PPE shortage was caused because suddenly everyone was required to wear it, so supplies that would normally have sufficed were rapidly depleted. Apparently that was mostly a waste of time compared to strict handwashing!

Just proves that all that screaming about PPE created a massive red herring and prevented questions being asked about more important things like obtaining true covid stats and how much lockdown was costing the economy.

42941 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, #135 of 1372 🔗

No shit.

Next they’ll make us wear butt masks

42988 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to chris c, #136 of 1372 🔗

They’re called underpants – unless you wear your kilt traditional-style?

43032 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, #137 of 1372 🔗

I just remembered a line from Woody Allen’s Bananas. The New Revolutionary Leader first came up with a couple of good ideas, then

“You will change your underpants three times a day. You will wear them on the outside so we can check!”

Perhap I shouldn’t have written that in case the Poison Dwarf sees it and thinks it’s a good idea

42643 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 3, #138 of 1372 🔗

The second wave is nailed on -exclusive polling proves it beyond doubt -time to hide behind your sofas https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1305362/Coronavirus-news-latest-second-wave-outbreak-poll

42659 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to arfurmo, 5, #139 of 1372 🔗

The sofa does not provide enough protection and the dogs are allowed on it, surely I can catch it from them? Nope, only under the bed or the airing cupboard will suffice for me.

42663 ▶▶ annie, replying to arfurmo, 9, #140 of 1372 🔗

Aha, the Daily Express, well known for encouraging its readers to face life with calm, rational optimism.

42644 gareth, replying to gareth, #141 of 1372 🔗

I would have liked to listen to Hugh Osmond,on your BBC link, however when I click the link I get presented with a picture of some creature (possibly a woman, maybe a ‘sleb, definitely well ugly) and told I need to “sign up” to the BBC. Which ai’nt going to happen.
A link to something that isn’t the Beeb, maybe an mp3, would be good…

42814 ▶▶ Edna, replying to gareth, #142 of 1372 🔗

I had the same thing happen but I then found out that Hugh Osmond had put it on Dropbox and no signing-up is needed there! Here’s the link:

42645 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #143 of 1372 🔗

comment image ?imwidth=480

Argentines maintains social distancing with ‘human foosball’
The game, known locally as “metegol humano” divides the pitch into rectangular zones with while lines limiting where a player can move – helping to enforce social distancing, though limiting slide tackles or pitch-length dribbles with the ball.

42661 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #144 of 1372 🔗

Reminds me of that Babyfoot table game you used to get in funfairs. Remember the Morecombe and Wise skit on it?

42732 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #145 of 1372 🔗

Let’s hope this game DOES NOT catch on!

42990 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #146 of 1372 🔗

My thoughts exactly!
Be interesting to know if they have a group hug when someone scores.

42651 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #147 of 1372 🔗

Excellent analysis of the perils of groupthink:


42654 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 28, #148 of 1372 🔗

The quote from Dr Kendrick is superb:

“We locked down the population that had virtually zero risk of getting any serious problems from the disease, and then spread it wildly among the highly vulnerable age group. If you had written a plan for making a complete bollocks of things you would have come up with this one”.

42658 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 5, #149 of 1372 🔗

Kenrick’s an absolute superstar!

42697 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sarigan, 14, #150 of 1372 🔗

It has to be said that Dr Kendrick has given a very fair summary of what actually happened there.

The plan also had the added advantage of lopping more than 10% off GDP in one fell stroke, and, further, denying millions of people proper medical care for conditions other than Covid-19.

In the UK it also unleashed an atypical spirit of enforced communal harmony, (through social pressure to partake of regular clapathons) of the sort we normally associate with Pyongnang, which then made us highly vulnerable to the sub-Marxist agitprop BLM street theatre.

So an all round big win for the PC Globalist alliance.

I was thinking the other day that if there was an organisation called “Conspiracies R Us” and a client bearing some random name like Owen Soros Sarkar-Blair commissioned them to design a conspiracy to advance PC globalist, left-liberalism in alliance with Islam and the Chinese Communist Party, across the globe, I can’t think the said organisation could come up with anything better than what we have been through these last few months and are still living through!

42664 JohnB, #151 of 1372 🔗

The Florida oldster was in his 70s; the guy he assaulted was 86 …

42667 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #152 of 1372 🔗

Some bleak reading.

“Concertgoers in Scotland could be asked to undergo coronavirus tests as part of a drive to bring live events back without social distancing.”

That is not the worst of it…

“However the Scottish Government has been warned that it will not be financially viable for music and theatre venues to operate with social distancing in place and urged to help develop an alternative way of reopening before a coronavirus vaccine is found and rolled out around the world.”


42673 ▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 7, #153 of 1372 🔗

I didn’t realise that Holyrood was a lunatic asylum.

How’s that push for “indy” going north of the border?

42702 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to John P, 8, #154 of 1372 🔗

Banana republic SNP style : the usual grievances, inanities, cock ups and thuggish morons demanding quarantine at the border, while no quarantine measures in place at airports.

Shops closing, fly tipping, and mandatory retail masking now ordered by the Holyrood Gauleiter.

One glimmer of light in this gloomy place: no clapping yesterday.


Another One Bites The Dust

We can but hope…

42703 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to John P, 5, #155 of 1372 🔗

Multitudes flying over the cuckoo’s nest, while Nurse Ratched issues orders from Holyrood.

42708 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 2, #156 of 1372 🔗

Didn’t realise until now? You took your time, Mr Pretty!

42741 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, #157 of 1372 🔗

Didn’t he just Annie!

42680 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 13, #158 of 1372 🔗

The Spiteful Nannying Party game plan is completely screw the economy and then blame the eeeeevil tories for not giving them all the money they want.
It’s why they’ve brought in muzzles for shops, they were worried some of that sector might recover so they want to stymie any chance of a recovery there.
With the Natzis always assume some proportion of malicious intent as they don’t care about collateral damage.

42709 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #159 of 1372 🔗

How’s the Great Face-Nappy Crusade getting on?

42713 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 2, #160 of 1372 🔗

We’re buying online.

42716 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 4, #161 of 1372 🔗

But we have until July 10th to continue doing the bare faced protest in the local shops.

42733 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 5, #162 of 1372 🔗

Earth to Holyrood: unobstructed breathing is an absolute necessity for normal functioning : we are not anaerobic life forms.

However, hypoxia could render us so befuddled that we would no longer be able to challenge the group think.

42746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 2, #163 of 1372 🔗

People ought to search images Sturgeon Haircut. The pictures are the holyrood response to cries from other parties her hair wasn’t growing – the tiresome you are having your hair cut number. The answer from SNP top brass was to release photos.

An absolute joke to think these people could run an independent country competently and for the good of the people.

42750 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #164 of 1372 🔗

This site has an amusing picture of Sturgeon as a teenager – scroll down a bit and check out the hair! https://fabrickated.com/2014/09/23/scottish-politics-what-do-the-clothes-tell-us/

42766 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, 1, #165 of 1372 🔗

Reminds me of one of the Bay City Rollers – Woody, was it?

42768 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 1, #166 of 1372 🔗

You beat me to it!

42767 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #167 of 1372 🔗

Early career as muse for Beano characters…

42994 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #168 of 1372 🔗

Did she start lockdown with a buzzcut?!

42770 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 1, #169 of 1372 🔗

Or “accidentally” join another one that’s off-message.

42744 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 2, #170 of 1372 🔗

Its going to the same as buses now Wendyk a damp suib with some feeling it their duty while others realising its nothing to do with their duty and so remaining free.

42769 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 1, #171 of 1372 🔗

Let’s hope the realisation spreads

42991 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #172 of 1372 🔗

Sounds like the work of Devi Sridhar!

42675 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #174 of 1372 🔗


Was lockdown really worth it? Telegraph writers and experts give their verdict

42707 ▶▶ annie, replying to HawkAnalyst, 12, #175 of 1372 🔗

Health warning: most of this article will make you puke. Like, really spew. The best emetic since dilute mustard.

42736 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to annie, 7, #176 of 1372 🔗

But the “below the line” comments are heartening.

42830 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, 4, #177 of 1372 🔗

Yes, sickening. But as BTLnewbie points out, the comments tell a different story.

I am left wondering what the motivation is for these people to write this garbage. Are they seeking to gain favour with the ‘establishment’ in order to get or maintain grants, or for some financial incentive?

A remarkable number of doctors and academics to have spoken out against lockdown policies appear to be retired.

42758 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #178 of 1372 🔗

Note the standard practice of having the information/message you want shown first as most people probably don’t bother to read to the end.

42823 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #179 of 1372 🔗

Good point.

42995 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #180 of 1372 🔗

Most people would be too busy upchucking to get near the end.

42681 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 27, #181 of 1372 🔗

Message sent to government HQ:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Please could we have an end to the lock-down, in full, now.

Concert venues and theatres are going to the wall because of this lock-down. We are also being denied our religious freedoms due to the absurd antisocial distancing and the rule against singing in church.

Refusing to end antisocial distancing until a vaccine is found would be utter madness.
There is no need for any of this. May I remind the Prime Minister of his conversation here:

I don’t expect your party to be in office after the next election. Many people will not forgive this government for the draconian measures it has dished out over the past few months.

Yours Faithfully,

Jonathan Castro

42731 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 3, #182 of 1372 🔗

Great letter! However, a pleasing response from the recipients seems unfortunately unlikely..

42759 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #183 of 1372 🔗

Just checked out conservativefreedomparty.com
Brilliant stuff. Are you considering an RSS feed for updates and also a subscribe feature?

42938 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #184 of 1372 🔗

I might consider it, although I don’t update it very often!

42684 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 6, #185 of 1372 🔗

Well, there’s the Sage Committee (think Dr Strangelove War Room), then there’s the ‘Independent Sage Committee’ formed of Brexit Remoaner doomsayers repackaged as Covid ‘experts’ and much in favour at the BBC & other MSM outlets – so much so that the word ‘Independent’ is whispered in introductions. So why not constitute a ‘Real Sage Committee’ composed of sane and able scientists that know what they are talking about and appear in this hallowed place frequently. We could all name half a dozen. Let them be launched on the airwaves as a group representing sanity and us. Don’t let the left have all the best songs, nor sages.

42687 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to James Leary #KBF, 9, #186 of 1372 🔗

The ” independent ” SAGE committee is a bunch of emeritus who rather like to hear their own voices with a strong left/ remainer bias. They are also known as the ” dress up box ” SAGE group.

42792 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #187 of 1372 🔗

Quite a few are what I would call the ‘also rans’ – not sufficiently worthy or accomplished to have made it to real SAGE – and that says something!

42685 nfw, 1, #188 of 1372 🔗

What is really sad about the Miami old chap being so scared that he would assault another is that he could have done the right thing (as we’re all in this together aren’t we) and left the lift himself. The Australian Government introduced a numbers in lift suggestion (can’t legislate for that) back in April and it was quietly dropped on 21st May as being both stupid and unworkable. I wonder what we don’t do it for TB mitigation?

42730 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to wendyk, 13, #190 of 1372 🔗

Brilliant! This bit resonated particularly strongly: ‘The political and administrative Establishment, in other words, has taken advantage of the lockdown to turn Britain into the equivalent of a gigantic prep school where the entire population are treated like recalcitrant children.
Instead of being the God-given right of every freeborn Englishman — as it has been since forever — suddenly a simple act like going to the pub for a pint is something you can only do with the government’s permission; and is, furthermore, a privilege that can be taken away at a moment’s notice.’

42787 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 6, #191 of 1372 🔗

I think it will be interesting to watch the removing of pub rights when they do it, and they will. It may cause a further solidifiying on either side of the fractures. It is what we are about here isn’t? The destabilising and fracturing of us. To divide and rule.

42878 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, 4, #192 of 1372 🔗

And that is the way it will remain until we rise up.

43303 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to wendyk, #193 of 1372 🔗

Hello Darling G, I’ve been missing you…

42704 Hugh W, replying to Hugh W, 4, #194 of 1372 🔗

Have a great and well deserved holiday in Venice, Toby. Just in case you don’t know it, here is my other favourite website – tip top train info: https://www.seat61.com

42728 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Hugh W, 2, #195 of 1372 🔗

Nothing wrong with easyjet and Ryanair, excellent airlines, I’ve always found them very reliable.
No brainer – fly

42706 wendyk, 1, #196 of 1372 🔗


A good oldie from Canned Heat

42717 Biker, replying to Biker, 27, #197 of 1372 🔗

As a citizen of the Socialist republic of Scotland i eagerly await not wearing a mask on Friday. I think they are gonna be in for a shock because hardly anyone is wearing a mask at the moment and i’m pretty sure that come Friday nothing will change.
I’m thinking of making a movie featuring a pissed off Biker and his mates who operate on the margins of a society that’s locked down and forced to wear masks. We steal cars and rob the rich and give the money to the ginger people living in tenements so they can buy Irn Bru, Buckfast, white bread, eggs and margarine. We race around antagonising the Fuzz and getting into epic car chases and at the end we steal tanks and crush the Scottish Parliament back to dust.. I’m thinking of calling this movie “Masked and Furious”.

42725 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Biker, 7, #198 of 1372 🔗

I’ve just done a bare faced visit to Morrison’s Biker.

On the way, I noticed 2 more empty premises.

In the shop, smiling friendly staff, as always, but overheard an ominous July 10th at one of the tills.

Only one mask-middle aged woman wearing the black style- everyone else behaving as normally as one can at present.

I think you should lead a Pictish rebellion Biker; you’d have plenty of followers.

The Dear Leader has well and truly lost the plot; time for a common sense conversion- as if!!

42735 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to wendyk, 5, #199 of 1372 🔗

Fife should be independent from the piss poor Sturgeon and her mongoloid followers. I despise Scotland and the Scottish people. They are embarrassing and i cringe hard whenever the Scottish accent is heard. Unfortunately a lot of my fellow Picts suffer the twin disease of religion and state education and i’m afraid in Fife these days you’re considered a genius if you can work out the change from two quid when you buy a pie and small Irn Bru from Stephens. I’m not sure i’m the man to lead them out of the wilderness and back to the promised land. I am willing to fight to the death though so there is that.

42739 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 2, #200 of 1372 🔗

Bright side of things .. behind the mask of paint strugeon is looking knackered. Haunted. Broken.

42742 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 1, #201 of 1372 🔗

it’s hard work covering up being a Lesbian like she does.

42747 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Biker, 6, #202 of 1372 🔗

Must be something in the Scottish character that many just love being ordered about by screechy, bossy wimmin. They’re to be found everywhere nowadays; they used to find their niche as infant school mistresses. Personally, I can’t stand the creatures. Equally detest “little boy lost” males (Boris).

42772 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Gillian, 6, #203 of 1372 🔗

The Scottish character seems to me to be sadly lacking on all fronts. From tracksuit wearing adults, people in shorts, coffee drinking lefty do-gooders to the people who play golf, i can’t bare it. Even the bums have no class anymore. None of them wear a suit or ask your for some spare change to get a cup of tea. You know you’re fucked when even the bums have stopped making an effort.
They build golf courses all over Fife destroying countless Pictish Standing Stones, ancient roads and all manor of other things you know. I’d rebuild the standing stones right in the middle of their course’s.

42804 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, #204 of 1372 🔗

Shorts are cool – additional vitamin D.

42956 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Gillian, #205 of 1372 🔗

Joan Grenfell lite

42765 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 5, #206 of 1372 🔗

Perhaps she’ll finally come to acknowledge what an unnecessary piece of nonsense all this is.

Recent conversations reveal the depth of the anger and frustration she is causing.

42738 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 3, #207 of 1372 🔗

If you need a damsel to rescue biker I’m avaiable.

In my own conversations with strangers I’ve noticed a pattern worth mentioning All anecdotal but Muslim people, guarded at first, seem to be ahead on the this mask friday is a lot of rubbish tbinking. Not universally, one couple are frightened and reacted accordingly, their family see through it all. And elsewhere, critcal thinking alive and well among muslims. Great!

43098 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 2, #208 of 1372 🔗

Let down your long hair and i’ll climb up and rescue you

42869 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Biker, #209 of 1372 🔗

You don’t need to make a movie when it’s there in real life. But I do see the cinematic irony of the rebels being unmasked and the ‘citizens’ being masked. I’m in England and I’m not betting against masks being mandatory by Christmas. Grass roots ‘rooting’ (sic) for it now. I can feel the momentum. In my manor on the south coast three weeks ago: virtually no masks (this is outdoors by the way). Yesterday: masses of them.

43043 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella, 4, #210 of 1372 🔗

Still not many here in Suffolk but like you I fear it’s coming.

There was one today in the Co-Op, standing right in the middle of the aisle looking at things. When I came up behind him he said “Mmphr mmmps”. When I followed him round the corner he almost climbed onto the shelves to let me by. I think I later sawe him getting into an Audi in the car park, so that explains that then.

Just up the road a masked idiot in a Range Rover waited until the last minute before pulling out across my nose. Forunately I am good at emergency braking but he probably thinks it was the mask that saved him.

The children’s playground appears to have been officially opened, no masks there either – yet.

42876 ▶▶ Rick, replying to Biker, 12, #211 of 1372 🔗

Saw family all muzzled drag a very small child (3-4) also muzzled, through an empty services on M4 to use the loo. Mother (?) holding onto the little girl was giving a running commentary about how the place was literally full of germs and THE VIRUS, constantly reminding the child why they could’t use the shop or get a drink, don’t touch anything. The poor little sod was scared to death wide eyed! Child abuse plain and simple.

42880 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rick, 8, #212 of 1372 🔗

I feel sorry seeing children all muzzled up – not only is it child abuse but what sort of example are the adults setting for them? To become risk adverse and cowardly? To distrust everyone around them as not only potential criminals but also germ carriers?

We ain’t seen nothing yet in terms of psychological damage that this lockdown and antisocial distancing will do to today’s children as they grow older.

42928 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #213 of 1372 🔗

They’re also stupid adults, because they haven’t taken the trouble to investigate the efficacy of masks. Hint: no efficacy whatsoever.

42936 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, 1, #214 of 1372 🔗

Unfortunately two of those stupid adults are close to home in my case.

42718 mjr, replying to mjr, 19, #215 of 1372 🔗

so watched a couple of minutes of GMB and Piss Morgan. What a hypocrite. This morning crying over how bad things are for the arts forgetting that MSM and in particular he himself has been the biggest cheerleader for continued lockdown and naming and shaming anybody he perceives to be breaking the “rules” (except of course his own son who can go on BLM marches). It would not be so bad if he had a uniform approach (may be the nazi SS uniform he is happy to wear)

42729 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, 14, #216 of 1372 🔗

On a more positive front, according to Peter Hitchens (retweeted on his Twitter site this morning) and Mike Graham they will be mentioning our friend ‘kh1485’ from this site, in today’s weekly interview on Talk Radio! https://twitter.com/Iromg/status/1279739128117108736

42748 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, 1, #217 of 1372 🔗

Hi Carrie

Thanks for this. I wouldn’t have known about this if you hadn’t mentioned it as I don’t venture onto Twitter!

42751 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to kh1485, 6, #218 of 1372 🔗

You’re welcome 🙂
If you have an opportunity, maybe you should phone in to the programme? If you say you are the person mentioned (either before or after they do the interview with Peter), you might get to give an opinion on air, and plug your business!

42784 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Carrie, 3, #219 of 1372 🔗

Nowadays, you might also get BLM/Covhysterics attacking your place. Maybe, keeping your head down might be safer (but perhaps I am just being too cowardly?).

42786 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to IanE, 5, #220 of 1372 🔗

Not bothered about putting my head above the parapet, more bothered about any damage done to my shop. Only just recovered from the smash and grab last year.

42968 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 2, #221 of 1372 🔗

Well done, to the bold, the fair!

42782 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 3, #222 of 1372 🔗

As Carrie says kh, go on air and tell it like it is!

42785 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 2, #223 of 1372 🔗

Trouble is, I am in the shop and there is nowhere private to make such a call.

42902 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to kh1485, 1, #224 of 1372 🔗

Is it possible to contact Mike Graham/Talk Radio by email and express your views that way?

42857 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, 2, #225 of 1372 🔗

He quoted you in his column on Sunday kh. It was clearly you. A whole para about your experience of getting visited by the filth, sorry, cops.

42858 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, 2, #226 of 1372 🔗

Pity they couldn’t identify kh by correct gender. Has to be a ‘he’ if owning a cafe. Patriarchy at its best

42862 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bella, -5, #227 of 1372 🔗

Perhaps, if kh1485 is that bothered he/she should use his/her real name rather than hiding behind an unintelligible alias?

BTW,I would presume that you are a woman on the basis of your name, but I don’t know for sure, and if you’re transgender maybe you wouldn’t identify as a woman anyway?

42891 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to John P, 7, #228 of 1372 🔗

Hey, desist with the snark. I don’t use my full name because I don’t want my shop trashed. I have never, FYI, hidden from anything. I am bothered, hugely bothered actually. I haven’t heard what PH said on TalkRadio because I am busy in my shop.

42896 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 2, #229 of 1372 🔗

To be fair to PH, Bella, my name is unisex. But I take your point. Haven’t heard the programme yet as I got busy at work …

42903 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 4, #230 of 1372 🔗

And, it just occurred to me, he didn’t want to identify me so even if he did know my gender (I have contacted him on other issues before), perhaps he was being gallant.

42852 ▶▶ Bella, replying to mjr, 2, #231 of 1372 🔗

The lunatics have been in charge of the asylum for a long, long, time and – if people have noticed at all – we’ve just let them carry on. And so it gets worse.

42719 Jane in France, replying to Jane in France, 13, #232 of 1372 🔗

Though things seem to be getting back to normal in France, they can’t so long as the radio keeps putting out a message about how covid19 is still among us, anyone can catch it, and if you have any symptoms at all, even a runny nose (!!) you should call your doctor who will then decide whether you need to be tested. While the doctor is mulling over your case and then while waiting for the results of your test, if the doctor in her infinite wisdom decides you need one, you must stay at home. Let’s hope most French people have enough sense not to call their doctor if they have a runny nose because among these runny noses some covid19 is bound to be discovered and there we’ll be, like Leicester, back under house arrest.

42720 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Jane in France, 14, #233 of 1372 🔗

the narrative at home is that still breathing is a symptom of covid (and not breathing means you are probably an old person in a care home and you are dead)

42727 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to mjr, 1, #234 of 1372 🔗

My version of this : breathe in, breathe out; but not when anyone else is about.

Hypoxia rules ok!

42743 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Jane in France, #235 of 1372 🔗

Yes no testing

42753 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 3, #236 of 1372 🔗

Testing is a danger to human rights

42801 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jane in France, #237 of 1372 🔗

Not listening to the radio would also seem sensible …

42850 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Jane in France, 4, #238 of 1372 🔗

Yeah, I had a summer cold last week. Like, who calls their doctor for a summer cold? Or any type of cold? More opportunity to skew the figures. Don’t call your doctor unless it’s really necessary otherwise quarantine beckons.

43051 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella, 1, #239 of 1372 🔗

I’ve been snuffling on and off for a while. Probably the lack of pollution has made the pollen worse. Wouldn’t go near a doctor if you paid me and gave me a free mask

42734 alw, replying to alw, 13, #240 of 1372 🔗

Spent the day in trendy Hackney yesterday with one of the offspring and his family who live there. Despite reports in some sections of the MSM everyone was well behaved and there was no trouble that we could see. We were on Well St Common and in Victoria Park and walked by many pubs. The only issue was Tower Hamlets Council in it’s wisdom had not opened the children’s playgrounds but thankfully people had taken matters into their own hands. Some of the toilets were open. Drove home through Hackney, Islington, Camden Town and Primrose Hill. No more than 20 wearing masks and no problems with pubs or disorder on streets.

42760 ▶▶ Basics, replying to alw, 1, #241 of 1372 🔗

Good of Tower Hamlets Council to take time and give opportunity for the people to act responsibly and strongly taking things into their own hands. Powerful when people act like that. Good for them.

42754 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #242 of 1372 🔗

Twitter from Texas about testing, the top 2 are the most telling:


42757 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, #243 of 1372 🔗

It doesn’t surprise me.

42755 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #244 of 1372 🔗

Censorship and virtue signalling on steroids.

Twitter Ditches “Offensive” Non-Inclusive Terms Such As “Whitelist”, “Man Hours” And “He, Him, His”


42761 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sarigan, 15, #245 of 1372 🔗

If it carries on with this, there won’t be many words left that are allowable.
It’s becoming so censorious, I don’t see much reason to use it. Many people are switching over to Parler, and this will accelerate the move.
The sooner Twitter disappears up its own censorship, the better.

42779 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Lms23, 3, #246 of 1372 🔗

Yes, for a start, that ‘Many words’ and ‘MANy people’ looks suspicious!

42781 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to IanE, 3, #247 of 1372 🔗

p.s. I could add ‘reaSON’

42789 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IanE, 3, #248 of 1372 🔗

They need to change their name from TWITter to something less demeaning.

42762 Awkward Git, 1, #249 of 1372 🔗

If I’ve done this correctly this should be a link to a video on my onedrive of an intercepted shipment of HCQ going to the French Army:


Let me know if it works so I know I did it properly, never done it before.

42763 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #250 of 1372 🔗

Remember all the 322 cases all over the place.

Well found this out – couldn’t save the original time but wikipedia (I know could be compromised) backs up the original:


42774 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #251 of 1372 🔗

Look at who were members, Bush, Kerry etc.. there is a lot of info about skull and bones out there, relates to events 20 years ago and more.

Interesting in relation to 33 and 22 all over the media stated numbers too.

No idea how it all fits together but there is a repeating pattern. There were three masonic Lodges outed(?) in Parliament mid Brexit waffle. Word was it was a Common Purpose power bid to make it known journalist and MPs pinny-up in the local lodges together.

No, not a crack pot! This stuff is all from mainstream media! Thems r the crack pots!

43070 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 1, #252 of 1372 🔗

got any links about the lodges outed in parliament?

43131 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, 1, #253 of 1372 🔗

5 Feb 18 seems to be approximately the time, a little before perhaps.
I don’t have links it not being my sport and all. A simple search masonic lodges in parliament will bring up the msm articles of the time.

42764 Nobody2020, 11, #254 of 1372 🔗

If we knew then what we know now

Just a rough calculation, feel free to correct/amend:

Official COVID-19 death count in UK – 44k according to Worldometer (actual excess deaths are more but let’s use this number for now)
Roughly 40% of deaths in care homes
As much as 20% nosocomial infections/deaths in hospitals (I cna’t remember if this 20% was infection or deaths)

Knowing the above we could have:

Protected care homes. 44k * 40% = 26,400 deaths elsewhere
Prevented nosocomial deaths. 26,400 * 80% = 21,120 deaths total

This is very, very rough working and purely illustrative of what could have been done differently, but if we were able to do the above, knowing what we know now, then 21k deaths over 3 months would not be justification for any form of lockdown because it would not have much effect on either of those preventative measures.

42773 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #255 of 1372 🔗

I came across this news item of a 41 Yr old dying from Covid but on reading it you realise he probably died of thrombosis, or being intubated, or through having his leg amputated.


42777 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Bella Donna, 10, #256 of 1372 🔗

Or the drugs. He “was put in a medically induced coma to help his breathing” according to the article. The chances are, at 41, he would have got through it if he’d just been given a bit of oxygen and rolled onto his front. Absolutely shocking. The pneumonia may not have even been caused by Covid as they rather suspiciously say he “later tested positive for Covid”.

42986 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to guy153, #257 of 1372 🔗

What we must also be aware of is American hospitals are receiving more money per Covid patient!

43248 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bella Donna, #258 of 1372 🔗

Apparently $30k per patient but I don’t know if that’s after costs. But I don’t believe they’re really murdering patients for (relatively little) money.

It’s more they thought that was the only treatment, that you were going to die anyway so a treatment with an 80% chance of killing you itself was justitified, panic, and dubious policies made with good intentions. It’s still unforgiveable because even the earliest estimates of fatality were too low to justify the treatment.

42790 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #259 of 1372 🔗

I think I read in another article that he was already in hospital awaiting a lung transplant, so if true, already pretty unwell?

42983 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #260 of 1372 🔗

What sicken me is the headline screams Covid 19!

43249 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bella Donna, #261 of 1372 🔗

It even says he died “from” Covid-19

42776 Bart Simpson, 11, #262 of 1372 🔗

Spot on tweet and reminds me of those clowns who were shaming people in pubs and yet forgetting that its no thanks to antisocial distancing and lockdown that the arts are struggling and many institutions are at the risk of going bust, if they haven’t already:


42778 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 14, #263 of 1372 🔗

Super Sunday – A Review

The Vic
This place was already on the naughty step pre-lockdown due to their policy on mobiles and tablets. Sanitizer not manned on the way in. Lots of room and choice of tables. No standing at the bar. No contact details asked for. Prices up 50%! First pint tasted watery however was quickly changed without question. Second pint bob on, very nice indeed. Lots of notices dotted about, kept up with biohazard tape. Lockdown sceptic rating 4/10 – mainly due to the price hike.

Greeted at the entrance. Hands sanitized and contact details taken before being taken to our table. Nice pint of San Miguel (now longer felt to be so much of a rip off following the Vic’s new prices). Music playing, fruities all up and running. Coke head having a row with his missus on the phone 5/10.

Already au fait with the set up as had breakfast here earlier. Greeted at the door. Politely asked to sanitize hands, contact details could be left but it was clearly impressed this was voluntary. Hand sanitizer stinks something horrid. One fruity taped off. Few screens dotted about doing very little. Met up with the lads, things becoming quite boisterous very quickly – a few looks from punters but staff were, without exception, all excellently humoured. Prices up 10p, stayed for two drinks, much more enjoyable than I was anticipating 9/10.

On entering, asked to sign in and leave details “by law”. Quick and friendly service as usual. No mention of price rises though I wasn’t paying this time. Boisterousness continues to now include physical contact between people from different households. New exit created via fire doors. 2x drinks, staff excellent 8/10.

Dead inside. Contact details requested at the bar. Our party getting quite loud now with witty repartee. Confusing one way system at the very small bar. New exit created via fire door. 1x drink, football on the telly 6/10

Contact details taken at the bar. ‘Discussion’ with the barman about this being a guideline, not a law – failed to convince him despite mentioning that national chain, Spoons are doing it differently 6/10.

Being with friends again, listening to crap banter, felt like topping up seriously depleted levels of fun. Much merriment was had and continued to be had at home. Kebab, sleep 9/10.

42791 ▶▶ John P, replying to Tom Blackburn, -8, #264 of 1372 🔗

I’m not really interested tbh. The lockdown is still reality for many in this country.

If you don’t want to continue to campaign against it then just enjoy getting drunk.

42793 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, #265 of 1372 🔗

Ha Ha – well if lockdown ever does end you’ll have to find something else to be a misery about

42865 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, 2, #266 of 1372 🔗

Will I?

Come to my city and find out.

42798 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to John P, 1, #267 of 1372 🔗

Aren’t you a Barrel o’ Laughs

42867 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #268 of 1372 🔗

Life in Leicester is reaally cool just now. You should visit.

42886 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to John P, 3, #269 of 1372 🔗

I’d rather shit in my hands and clap

42803 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, 15, #270 of 1372 🔗

I think we are all completely different people, maybe even socially incompatable, but together in our LS’ism. Even grantM brings something to the party with the view form the otherside.
We all deal with our LSism in our own way. Its good news that some can go out with their friends and have a good time – despite the bollocks.
One things for certain – it will not be political leadership that gets us out of lockdown – it will be people gradually and naturally reverting to being people again – lead by kh1485, TeeBee, James Leary and their like….

42816 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Major Panic, 9, #271 of 1372 🔗

Well said, Major. Totally agree. Our politicians and Establishment have let the people down badly. We need to take back control.

42839 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Gillian, 8, #272 of 1372 🔗

Take back? We never had control. And since their intention is to control you completely and take away all your power it’s going to need a concerted and robust effort which means going underground which in the age of blanket surveillance is a bit of a difficulty.This whole thing of opening pubs is a bit of pigswill to the swine or, to mix metaphors, to keep the natives happy. As the virus wanes note how the restrictions don’t go away. Someone want to open a book about how mandatory masks are everywhere – even the open air – by Christmas? In the meantime already we’re accepting 50% price rises as if they were acceptable and a small price to pay. It’s not about taking back control since we never had it, it’s about waking up. Even as this shit is in plain sight people are still in denial.

42846 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bella, 8, #273 of 1372 🔗

the problem is the people are divided, and many seem happy with more lockdown and are tutting from behind their twitching curtains. When there is the slightest attempts to get out of this mess the masses, MSM and their ‘experts’ scream ‘second wave’. It’s not just us against our hapless political leaders, its us against the rest of the people and their intrenched beliefs about the nasty cough – the media is the virus

42924 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Major Panic, 7, #274 of 1372 🔗

Gillian, you don’t have to apologise and MP, yes agree. So what do you do if you don’t want to live like this but you are in a minority? I don’t give a shit about living for the sake of living, that is Plato’s cave for me. We are living on a wondrous planet and people are hiding behind their couches. (Yes that was a deliberate extension of the Plato metaphor even as it is literally true.) In the magical forest you might get stung by a horse fly. It’s a small risk but a risk and horse fly stings bloody hurt. But you don’t want to see the forest, prefer the back of the sofa? Then let’s take the forest away. Prefer black and white? Then take away your ability to see colour. The reason most want to cower behind their sofas is because they have always done that, they have never experienced joy, never lived, so don’t understand what it is like when that is taken away.

43058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella, 1, #275 of 1372 🔗

Pedant, but horse flies bite!

A small bloodsucking creature with a painful bite, now who does that remind me of?

43908 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to chris c, #276 of 1372 🔗

Sorry, yes they bite. Should know as I’ve had them

42884 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Bella, 3, #277 of 1372 🔗

You’re absolutely correct of course, Bella. Apologies for my stupid comment.

42848 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 7, #278 of 1372 🔗

This is correct:

“One things for certain – it will not be political leadership that gets us out of lockdown – it will be people gradually and naturally reverting to being people again – lead by kh1485, TeeBee, James Leary and their like…”

Gradually, naturally, being people.

42868 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, 2, #279 of 1372 🔗

Not where I live.

42813 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #280 of 1372 🔗

Interesting to see how different establishments are implementing the ‘rules’! Glad you had a good time out – think we all need it and having a few beers seems a good option! 🙂

I went camping this weekend and very strange affair to use the washroom facilities … they had 3 wrist bands in a sterilising container to limit the numbers inside (3 pink for ladies and 3 blue for the boys! I’m sure some righton pc brigade would have a complaint about stereotyping! :-).
So you had to pick one up on entry and return it on exit. They had 3 toilets and 3 showers open having closed alternate cubicles . So if for example 3 ladies were using the showers then presumably no-one could use the toilets. Bizarre to say the least – I just ignored the system and walked in.
The site is part of a large club and i suspect these are edicts from head office which would presumably become defunct in a very short time or ignored.
It was nice to get away finally and detox from all the mayhem of the last few months even if only a couple of nights.

42818 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tom Blackburn, #281 of 1372 🔗

Did you give false details when asked and did you refuse hand sanitiser?

42820 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to stefarm, 7, #282 of 1372 🔗

Used the sanitizer in Spoons only – mainly out of courtesy to the staff member at the door who was putting everyone off leaving contact details. Gave a false number in places that insisted on it. So yeah, I played the game a bit for a quiet life

42838 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #283 of 1372 🔗

My thinking as well, I have a list of false names and numbers at the ready.

Rosemary Flatbread is winning so far.

42904 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to stefarm, 5, #284 of 1372 🔗

Go prepared with some suitable contact details from https://members.parliament.uk/FindYourMP

42910 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #285 of 1372 🔗


43151 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to TheBluePill, #286 of 1372 🔗

Especially good if you can provide an MP’s phone number for a contact tracer to use 😉

42780 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 20, #287 of 1372 🔗

After a good start on Saturday evening, dining out in the local Malmaison – bar full, shared small lift with well refreshed 20-somethings, booked into the place apparently just because they could. Waiting staff with masks and gloves that clearly were irritating them and being rapidly dispensed with whilst doing the ‘pointing and prodding‘ thing they do at the ordering central screen. BTW – it’s interesting that I found following what they were saying behind the mask very difficult. We all obviously lip read in noisy surroundings without knowing we’re doing it! There might be a ‘safety’ issue in this we could use to ban the damn things. Credit card machine was presented on the end of a long stick like the BBC uses to shove the furry microphones into people’s faces. Naturally it didn’t work the first time and the chap and I got together over the machine to work it out like normal. Teething troubles really.

Sunday was a trawling of Brighton to see who was open for brunch. Some places I was sure would have gone for it were still closed whilst others were in many states of trialling. Chose Kooks, in North Laine. Trendy ‘avocado-on-toast/posh cake & coffee’ sort of place. Been before a couple of times but there are so many others around there I’ve never been a regular. Am now. No signs of operating theatre atmosphere. That swung it. Tables a bit further apart and some outside. Talked to manageress and congratulated her on no PPE. “You don’t have to have it – it’s only guidance” was her answer. ✅ “If any of my staff want it, they can have it, but they don’t”. I’ve put them on the list here. Great attitude. Arty pictures of Ian Dury on the wall. Another plus. ‘Billericay Dickie’ has been stuck in my head ever since.

Today is a walking day on Downs to a nice cafe where Vera Lynn used to live – see how they’ve come out of it

42916 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to James Leary #KBF, #288 of 1372 🔗

In Ditchling. I remember that cafe. It was excellent. Well it was, 25 years ago, hopefully still now – moved up North not long after visiting it. Enjoy the walk!

42783 Bart Simpson, 6, #289 of 1372 🔗

For those who have twitter please RT to spread the word around:


42797 John P, 12, #290 of 1372 🔗

Any news on the lockdown capital, Toby? We’re not hearing much here, other than everyone from Leicester getting their holidays cancelled.

I am told police have been stopping motorists going out of the city over the weekend. This, despite the fact that the inmates are permitted to leave as long as they don’t stay anywhere overnight.

My sister reckons they were trying to discourage people from going to the pub. I am also told that they county council have been telling fibs on their website about the movement restrictions, claiming they are tighter than they are. My sister works for one of the local councils in Leicestershire and agrees with me about the rules.

Most of the testing stations in the city are concentrated in one area. There are eight within the city boundary, seven of them in the area with high density Asian population to the north-east of the city centre. There are none in the West or South of the city at all.

It’s not clear if locals will resent the Asian minority or the government if this continues.

42800 Nobody2020, 4, #291 of 1372 🔗

This is interesting:

Call for Class Action for False Imprisonment in Victoria, Australia


It mirrors my opinion on the pre-crime element to all of this (from Minority Report).

Direct link to the YouTube video:


42802 RM24, 4, #292 of 1372 🔗

i see a lot of people wearing disposable masks. it’s not possible to recycle these right? what happened to caring for the environment etc. all these masks, gloves etc will probably end up in some landfill
i’m surprised the media aren’t picking up on this and the damage to the environment

42806 Nel, 3, #293 of 1372 🔗

Not sure if this has been seen or posted by someone else:

Good assessment of the economic situation and way. War against humanity


42807 Basics, #294 of 1372 🔗

Beware the spittle

42808 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #295 of 1372 🔗

Must have missed this one somewhere along the line. It’s dated 26th June:

Statisticians struggle to explain survival rates

S trange things are happening in the world of corona-statistics. In the US, for weeks the number of daily recorded cases has stayed stubbornly constant. Then, in the past few days, there has been an increase. Yet — and this is the strange thing – deaths have continued to fall.

42810 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #296 of 1372 🔗

Was there not a senior Italian doctor from Lombardy giving roughly the same view recently and decried by the pro-panic medical establishment for giving an opinion based on anecdotal evidence and not knowing what he is talking about? Whenever there is a reason given for optimism, it seems always to be shouted down.

42822 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Gillian, 1, #297 of 1372 🔗

Huh, interesting they would not be on board with anecdotal evidence given the clamour for face masks, which is based on even less than that.

42815 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #298 of 1372 🔗

I can’t read it as I don’t have a subscription. But perhaps it’s because they are testing more healthy people. Is that so far-fetched? Or maybe the virus isn’t as dangerous as first thought. If you struggle to explain something, perhaps the assumptions you have made are incorrect. I’m not a very educated person, but isn’t that what science used to be about – trying to draw conclusions from empirical evidence, rather than trying to explain why the empirical evidence doesn’t fit the conclusions you previously drew.

42811 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 16, #299 of 1372 🔗

Interestingly, the damp squib which yesterday’s NHS clap turned into hasn’t been reported in mainstream media today. Nothing on GMB, for example.

42817 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gillian, 3, #300 of 1372 🔗

There seemed to be nothing on social media as well. There were the usual Happy Birthday NHS posts but nothing about the clap.

43025 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #301 of 1372 🔗

Well, can you imagine the Beeb announcing ‘The planned happy-birthday clap for the NHS was a total failure yesterday,p, as hardly anybody bothered’?

43035 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #302 of 1372 🔗

Agree. Best not mentioned and pretend that it was never planned.

42821 daveyp, 7, #303 of 1372 🔗

As I have come to a virtual dead end trying to get answers about the young children and teenagers who reported as dying from COVID-19 in the media and government briefing, I have now decided to move on to investigating the Care Homes.

So, before April 10th they was they was around 100 deaths recorded. The CQC changed the Death Notification form on the 10th of April that included a new section: Was the death as a result of:Confirmed coronavirus? or Suspected coronavirus?

After adding this new section in the deaths in Care Homes rose exponentially.

I have asked the ONS if they can provide the total figures so far for Confirmed Coronavirus and Suspected Coronavirus. I expect if they provide these figures, that the majority will be in the ‘Suspected Coronavirus’ bracket.

42828 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 25, #304 of 1372 🔗

While many of you are concentrating on the eating and drinking aspects of a pub, my interest is more in their capacity for holding society meetings. Since the lockdown started, the little groups I belong to have been suspended….nowhere to meet, not allowed to meet, our activities and lectures totally destroyed. Many societies have elderly people in them, the meetings are a lifeline for friendship, discussion, debate, the furtherance of cherished hobbies. An older acquaintance of mine is also frustrated by the continuing ban on choirs and orchestras…imagine those meetings with everyone wearing masks and gloves.
A quick straw poll amongst some colleagues (we’re all over 60) showed that none of us was willing to register our presence in a pub’s log book, nor sit behind plastic screens or struggle with a bloody mobile app just to order a drink.

I can see many societies crumbling (I know two in my circle of interests that already have); it just isn’t feasible to conduct these things via skype, etc…especially since half the older community doesn’t know how to handle a computer, let alone faff around with skype calls.
I have been a keen attender at many art and craft fairs, antiques fairs, agricultural shows and similar…all, I presume, still banned. What a start to life in retirement.

42833 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to thedarkhorse, 6, #305 of 1372 🔗

just start holding society meetings again – I can’t see you all being dragged off to jail

42918 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Major Panic, 3, #306 of 1372 🔗

I can

43023 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, 2, #307 of 1372 🔗

Aren’t thirty people allowed in your home now? Just find somebody with a big house.

42841 ▶▶ Basics, replying to thedarkhorse, 11, #308 of 1372 🔗

I agree.
Community groups have been decimated. At the smaller, but no less important end of the spectrum, groups rely on momentum of attendance to keep going.

The technological answers for meetings simply fail in this realm – not everyone wants or can have technology. Another barrier consistency is ability to use technology – if not running effortlessly in the background technology becomes the unwanted focus. I only mention technology since that appears to be the only way the silent government expect our groups to function now.

In no way is technology a replacement for the richness that comes from physically meeting community groups and so on.

This issue you raise thedarkhorse has compounded the isolation of huge numbers of people. A very good comment by you in my opinion.

42847 ▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Basics, 4, #309 of 1372 🔗

Technology also allows the government to monitor every interaction at a society “meeting”. And also insert deepfake video in lieu of a live feed from a person you think you know. What The Capture on BBC Iplayer to see how this is done.

42890 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #310 of 1372 🔗

Exactly – more population control..
Is that iplayer programme you refer to available anywhere else? I’m not in the UK so can’t access iplayer..

42908 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 2, #311 of 1372 🔗

Not that you are doing (i lack a better way to write my thought here) don’t discount the power of a community gathering. As Thedarkhorse raises these are important human things equal to the importance of pubs for interacting, for being human.

Ha! To consider being so wordy about knitting circles! But they are bloody vital. Cannot overstate that. And no I am not a knitting fiend, but you get my point. Community is vital.

42921 ▶▶▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Basics, 1, #312 of 1372 🔗

Just come back from me lunch…thanks for the support. One of my groups was meeting in a pub; our own room, cosy, separate from the other pub visitors. And it’s a society “celebrating” its 70th year this year. Bloody joke.

42845 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #313 of 1372 🔗

I thought “community centres” were on the list of premises permitted to open again, but I have been unable to find the a rule book that tells them how to operate with anti-social distancing. Is it possible to hold society meetings there?
And does “community centres” also cover clubs and societies (e.g. Scouts) that have their own premises?

42981 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #314 of 1372 🔗

AIUI, you can hold a meeting of up to 29 people in your home now (if there’s room), from ?3 July? when the new regs came into force.
Unfortunately, groups I’m a member of (similar age group) won’t want to “break the guidelines” even tho they have no legal force.

42829 John P, replying to John P, 17, #315 of 1372 🔗

I just found this retweeted on Simon Dolan’s twitter feed:

“FYI. If a dry lunch like Matt Hancock can take away and reinstate your ‘freedoms’ at will, they’re not actually freedoms. They’re merely prisoner ‘privileges’. Like a walk around the exercise yard.” (Gareth Icke).

This is true.

It’s worth bearing in mind that the sort of people who run for political office are not like the rest of us. They are generally fanatics for a particular cause, and I have long considered them to be control freaks.

A number of people raise the issue of Brexit. Although I would today be inclined to vote Leave, at the time I voted Remain.

The reason was partly that I didn’t trust the Tory government when they referred to “we” being controlled by the EU and that leaving the EU would mean that “we” would be free.

I saw the EU as controlling not us – the British people – but the government. Without the EU to stop them the Westminster cabal would have greater freedom to interfere in our lives. The EU, with it’s hand on Boris’ bollocks could prevent him from controlling us more directly.

Of course, I never reckoned on the Coronavirus Act, but the control freaks of Westminster (of whatever political persuasion) couldn’t wait to pass it. It’s little wonder the Labour party supports it. It’s heaven for politicians. They get to order the people about and many people love them for it.

Don’t expect it to end anytime soon. Also on twitter (Neil Clark’s feed):

“MIT did a report right at the beginning where they mention lockdown and release coming in waves for the next 18 months right into fall 2021. They really are going to drag this out and try to break the will of the people.”

42836 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, 16, #316 of 1372 🔗

The problem is that thanks to our MSM the hysterical and frightened population demanded that the government took away our ‘freedom’ and willingly slammed their front doors and scrambled behind their couches. The media is the virus

42851 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, 7, #317 of 1372 🔗

And who controls the media?

They shouldn’t be let off the hook. Many of them (not all) are shallow, fearmongering scum, but they don’t run the country.

42853 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, 1, #318 of 1372 🔗

can’t argue with that

42871 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, #319 of 1372 🔗

You can if you want.

42875 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, #320 of 1372 🔗

yeah but I agree with you

42877 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, #321 of 1372 🔗

Look. Back off !

I read your smug comment below and I didn’t like it.

I live in Leicester where there is no easing off of restrictions. We are being treated like lepers. Members of my family have had their holidays cancelled and people are very pissed off.

42888 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, 4, #322 of 1372 🔗

really sorry if you find my comments smug – it is really shit that people have had their holidays cancelled because of all the bollocks – as well as all the other heart ache caused

42863 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 1, #323 of 1372 🔗

And who controls the media?

People higher up the food chain than politicians, that’s for sure.

42870 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, #324 of 1372 🔗

I disagree.

Westminster is the seat of power in the UK.

42874 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 4, #325 of 1372 🔗

It should be.

To think it really is, these days, is highly naive imho.

42881 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to John P, 1, #326 of 1372 🔗

The economy is the focus of power these days. Nothing can be done unless it’s weighed up against the impact on the economy.

It doesn’t matter who’s in power, they’re all beholden to the money men persons of no specific gender.

42885 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 1, #327 of 1372 🔗

I disagree.

Westminster are tag-a-longs.

I respect you opinion tgough and understand mine is not traditional.

42911 ▶▶ Bella, replying to John P, 4, #328 of 1372 🔗

I think I agree with every word here John. Even your reasoning in the Brexit vote reflects exactly mine. Things have either got to change dramatically – and with a little sacrifice from us all – or we are under their thumb long into the future. Lifetimes of it. Don’t care if the virus was part of any conspiracy, for those in power it’s a God send because they can invoke emergency powers and martial law and little Hitler’s like Littlecock can bang their fists on the table shouting that ‘people can only do what we allow them to do.’ (That man has serious psychological disorders.)

42951 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 2, #329 of 1372 🔗

I could believe they will drag it out – they need to make people completely desperate, so that they will comply with the planned mass vaccination…

42844 Charles, 7, #330 of 1372 🔗

Good morning all,

Whilst a little off topic, I feel this may strike a chord. Immediately to the south of the Palace of Westminster is Victoria Tower Gardens; a beautiful space containing the particularly relevant Buxton Memorial Fountain, which commemorates the emancipation of slaves in 1833.

The government plans to replace this space with a holocaust memorial and learning centre. Instant controversy aside, the manner in which the government has tried to force this through is distinctly below board.

There is a petition gathering momentum, for the preservation of the Victoria Tower Gardens. It stipulates, very clearly, “ The Save Victoria Tower Gardens Campaign is of course not opposed in any way to the creation of a Holocaust Memorial and Learning Centre. It simply says that Victoria Tower Gardens is the wrong place for it.”

I consider this an important issue, only made more relevant by the current statue-tossing epidemic. The irony of wiping out a garden dedicated to the abolition of slavery will, I am confident, bite you all.

If you would like to sign, please do so, and send on: https://www.change.org/p/save-victoria-tower-gardens-no-building-in-this-precious-london-park

42860 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 19, #331 of 1372 🔗

According to a Talk Radio reporter on the ground in Spain, ‘the majority’ of the tested cases in the new NW outbreak there are ‘asymptomatic’. Which must mean these cases wouldn’t have been counted if they’d happened before mass testing because they wouldn’t have been noticed. Which leads me to think, for comparison purposes, we should be told which new tests prove positive from asymptomatic people, as these too shouldn’t be counted when declaring any numbers in an area as ‘ a new outbreak’ and used as a reason for a local lockdown. They are purely a result of mass testing, NOT a new outbreak.

42872 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to James Leary #KBF, 9, #332 of 1372 🔗

yes – stop testing

42907 ▶▶ Bella, replying to James Leary #KBF, 6, #333 of 1372 🔗

WE know that, THEY don’t want you to know that. Because then we have sussed that we have been had.

43241 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to James Leary #KBF, #334 of 1372 🔗

It’s such a farce . it’s basically like testing humans for breath.

42861 Emma, replying to Emma, 30, #335 of 1372 🔗

My email to St Ives School of Painting on their Covid measures:

I was looking on your website for a course to book for my elderly mother, who very much enjoyed one of your summer courses a couple of years ago, but then read with dismay your proposals for reopening with new Covid-19 measures in place.

As well as the tuition that my mother benefitted from two years ago, a huge feature of the experience was the immersive and collaborative aspect of the course, in well-equipped and friendly studios which offered a really sociable experience, so important for older people and especially so now after the months of loneliness many have endured. The description on your website of limited numbers, Perspex screens, removal of equipment and even the suggestion of mandatory masks (which goes well beyond what the government suggests and for which there is no good scientific basis) really makes me feel very sad at the loss of the unique atmosphere that was part of what made the St Ives course so special for my mother. For my mother’s generation online courses are just not feasible and the virtual experience is anyway no substitute for face to face human interaction, unfortunately.

I understand that you will have a duty of care towards your staff and students, but the over-zealous application of guidance around the risks of this virus and the destruction of your unique selling point will surely put many off attending. I will keep checking back on your website to see if you have updated your proposals but fear I won’t be able to book one of your courses until the coronavirus measures have been scrapped.

42866 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Emma, 8, #336 of 1372 🔗

Well said and good points you made there. Unfortunately I seriously doubt they are aware that they are signing their own death warrant with these measures.

42883 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #337 of 1372 🔗

If no one books, they will soon realise!

42914 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 7, #338 of 1372 🔗

Agree. That’s why I encourage people to boycott – that’s our only power.

43435 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, #339 of 1372 🔗

Too negative. We have other powers too e.g. inform/educate/persuade people, ridicule government absurdities (preferably loudly in public), be bleeding awkward whenever possible.


42887 ▶▶▶ Emma, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #340 of 1372 🔗

The demographic that attends these courses tends to be older, retired. Imagine asking them to wear a mask all day while they’re working! It’s beyond belief that people think this will be appealing.

42905 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Emma, 10, #341 of 1372 🔗

If you are consenting to wearing a mask to do any activity then surely you have to be desperate to do said activity? Apart from the possible exception of staying alive I’m not that desperate to do anything. And if that includes the collateral damage of not seeing friends or family because I won’t travel under these circumstances so be it, we’ll find a work around. I’ve been lucky enough to work from home all my life and only travelled for consultations (now defunct) so understand that some have to travel to earn their living and ‘earning a living’ obviously falls under ‘desperate’. But leisure activities? No. I’m not even going to the pub because they want to take my temperature. Fuck off. (Sorry about the swearing, my anger’s not dissipated because they’ve thrown us a bone.)

42912 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Emma, 5, #342 of 1372 🔗

Exactly. And will they be prepared to be liable when a student becomes ill or passes out while wearing a mask on their site?

42915 ▶▶▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #343 of 1372 🔗

I also paint as a lifelong hobby (forty years). I understand only too well what these artists’ courses are going to do to themselves. It is utterly desperate. This is creativity, we all need it, badly.

42947 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #344 of 1372 🔗

A point worth raising in any contact with them. Methinks they have just swallowed the guidelines as being law and implemented them, without thinking of their liabilities… or maybe they think ‘we were following the law’ will be acceptable as a legal defence?

43040 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 1, #345 of 1372 🔗

I raised that with the National Gallery and will carry on raising it in any other email I write to them. Trouble is the distinction between “guidelines” and “law” is muddled so I suspect they decide to go OTT without thinking of other consequences.

43072 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #346 of 1372 🔗

The boundaries between guidelines and law being blurred is deliberate, designed to make people think everything is law and therefore enforceable, with punishment for infringements..

42879 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Emma, 5, #347 of 1372 🔗

Great email, Emma.

43022 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Emma, 1, #348 of 1372 🔗

On a similar note, I am a Friend of the Royal Academy of Arts and a Member of the Tate galleries, both of which are reopening later in July. The RA will require everyone to wear masks but apparently Tate will not. I think we need to resist this mask tyranny, so I have told the RA I’ll cancel my Friend status if they insist on the measure.

42882 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 11, #349 of 1372 🔗

We have to make a 250 mile train journey in August to see a disabled relative. It involves crossing London. Having booked advanced first class tickets using our railcards, we noticed that we have reserved seats for the journey back but not for the journey there. As we are travelling with our son and 5 year old grandson, we want to make sure that we have seats together.
The Avanti call centre is closed , due to the virus of course, but we read on their website that we could book seats at our local station, so off we trotted this morning. The station car park, full in normal times was empty. A muzzled lady approached us in the station listened to our query, then asked us to put a mask on even though the notices nearby said “wear a mask when you travel with us”-we weren’t travelling with them though-and I noticed the staff at the barriers were actually letting in the un-muzzled after checking that they had something to wear on the train.
I expressed my worries, that for various reasons, I would feel very uncomfortable wearing a mask for a three and a half hour journey, so she pointed me in the direction of the daffodil badges and exemption cards which were available at the station. Apparently I don’t need to get medical proof and staff have been trained not to ask questions.
It is also interesting to note that according to the Avanti website, food will not be served at the tables (something which we sad people enjoy) but we will instead get a voucher to spend at the onboard shop which is only selling crisps, nuts and drinks etc and presumably will involve queuing down the train! The lounge at Euston will also not be open. However, Avanti don’t seem to have lowered their ticket prices to reflect that their service will no longer be First Class!

42909 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Margaret, 5, #350 of 1372 🔗

The rail companies have no incentive to encourage passengers at the moment,in fact they are doing their best to dissuade people from travelling.As I understand it they are being paid by the government to run services even if they are empty (a lot of them are empty),this is under EMA,emergency measures agreements,I think any ticket revenue is going to the government.The government has spent about £900M per month on these EMAs so far.

42919 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Paul, 1, #351 of 1372 🔗

Thanks. I didn’t know that. We were told at the station that there wouldn’t be a problem getting seats together as they weren’t busy at the moment, but are getting busier.

42946 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul, 4, #352 of 1372 🔗

…which makes me wonder why they are still going ahead with HS2 – who is going to use it?

43122 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Carrie, #353 of 1372 🔗

Quite. It’s all gone quiet. But will carry on unless the bills stop being paid which is more of a possibility maybe …….

42889 Bella, replying to Bella, 10, #354 of 1372 🔗

I’ve been half-watching a thing called Travellers on Netflix. It’s a sci-fi drama (not much into sci fi) about people from the future coming back to save the world in the present, because the present screws it up. It’s alright, has decent production values but pretty cliched. Anyway, get this: Season 2 Episode 5 which I watched last night (aired November 2017, just looked it up) is about this rogue virus that pitches up. ‘It’s like the flu, but isn’t the flu’ says one character, It’s not as dangerous but more virulent. The parallels are uncanny and at one point the ‘doctor’ character gives a hurried whiteboard lecture about R numbers. Could have been straight out of Ferguson’s playbook. I’m not suggesting this is somehow a link in the conspiratorial matrix (and I do subscribe to the ‘wet’ conspiracy conclusions about control) more a coincidence which is somewhat amusing if you’re sitting down with a glass and watching just as we’re being given permission to go out and have a drink. There’s a lot of ‘stay at home’ in it, but no blue meanies enforcing a lockdown. Only 45 minutes for the curious.

43011 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bella, #355 of 1372 🔗

Watch this Dead Zone episode from a long time ago (maybe about 2003 but not too sure), here is the trailer:


42906 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #356 of 1372 🔗

I’ve got a controversial question for my fellow lockdown sceptics.

We know that the government created a catastrophe – by bottling it when Neil Ferguson came out with his model at the same time as the misleading images from Italian hospitals were beamed around the world. We know that the original lockdown wasn’t necessary, and that the ‘second spike’ is being creating artificially through extra testing of asymptomatic people. The government is clearly backtracking on its wish to open up the economy again, and it sabotaged ‘Super Saturday’ by starting its program of pre-planned ‘local lockdowns’.

But we are where we are. The ‘new normal’ is here, and the vast majority of the population have bought into it – there’s even a new culture of no-touch greetings, Zoom-based advertising and amusing face coverings. At the same time, the economy is going to implode and people will start losing their jobs over the coming months. It could get pretty rough for as long as the government wants to drag it out for.

Clearly, we are being manoeuvred into taking a near-placebo vaccine in a few months’ time, plus accepting permanent limits on our freedoms. BUT… our best chance of regaining a bit of the ‘old normal’ is when the rest of the population finally feels ‘safe’. At what point do we simply accept that we’re beaten and, frankly, wish for the speedy delivery of the placebo vaccine?

Stay safe, everyone.

42917 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #357 of 1372 🔗

I don’t think you could ever accept you are beaten.

As to a placebo being a jaded and cynical old bastard I’m more of the opinion it will be an untested (or tested to get the effects they want but not admitted) vaccine that will be pushed, not a placebo, to hurry up the new green utopia.

Why? Too much research, too much looking at dark corners of the internet, too many coincidences over the years coming together at one time with the same names and “societies” cropping up over and over.

Just watched this from 2018, never heard of “one world” computer model before but seen deal.com a few times and their predictions of mass deaths for certain countries in the coming years:


43021 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #358 of 1372 🔗

Do people here really think that if we succumb to a vaccine our freedoms will suddenly be restored? Wake up, please

42920 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #359 of 1372 🔗

Normal normal.

Patience, this is watering down as we discuss. They have their vampire clutches into many – shocked and fearful, people are seeing the absurdity. That level of fear cannot be kept up. The msm have no deaths to gleefully list off hour by hour – remember that?

The fear is not sustainable because it is based on provable fallacy.

Thanks for your post a good challenging question. Patience yet.

42922 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #360 of 1372 🔗

This dated 05th April 2020 – is a vaccine needed at all?


42923 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Barney McGrew, 14, #361 of 1372 🔗

I won’t be taking any “vaccine”

42925 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Jonathan Castro, 9, #362 of 1372 🔗

Nor me. They can go screw themselves.

42945 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 2, #363 of 1372 🔗

We need to be distributing this from the Alliance for Natural health: https://www.anhinternational.org/resources/documents/uk-vaccine-transparency-manifesto/ NB: there is an alternative version on the site, suitable for use outside the UK..
Their video is great! I’ve asked them to add subtitles which they say they are looking into..

42929 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #364 of 1372 🔗

I think it’s too soon to admit defeat. I think the combination of the human social instinct, the pain felt as furlough ends, and the (hopefully) ever decreasing number of cases and deaths worldwide, in places that are opening up again, will eventually have an effect. It’ll be months rather than weeks.

I don’t think the PM wants to preside over a ruined economy forever if he doesn’t have to. I think he is looking for a way out, as are some of the others.

43009 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 3, #365 of 1372 🔗

Well they need to push Wankock off a cliff, then try looking a lot harder.

42932 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #366 of 1372 🔗

At what point do we simply accept that we’re beaten and, frankly, wish for the speedy delivery of the placebo vaccine?

Defeatism in the face of an unprecedented attack on our rights and liberties is – frankly I am lost for words.

42934 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #367 of 1372 🔗

There are going to be people queuing round the block for any vaccine that comes out. I don’t do predictions but I very much doubt it will be madatory. Let them take it if it makes them feel better.

42943 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 5, #368 of 1372 🔗

Not sure about it not being mandatory – they will *say* it is voluntary, but if you want to work, go to school or travel, it will be mandatory. The EU have been planning a covipass (vaccine record in passports) since at least 2018..

42949 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, 1, #369 of 1372 🔗

Can’t see all the eu members going for that and we’re no longer in the eu, I’m sure they won’t turn away our tourist £’s.

42953 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 3, #370 of 1372 🔗

Already in the plans, they just haven’t told the people yet..

Anyone know when ‘European Immunisation week’ is this year? Because that is when the above document says they are planning to start their ‘EU public awareness initiative’..

43116 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #371 of 1372 🔗

Good find Carrie!

43217 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, #372 of 1372 🔗

Seems plausible that a university may declare all on campus require vaccination. Once that occurs pandoras box is open.

43024 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, #373 of 1372 🔗

Carrie, I’m a cynic who thinks there are conspiracies afoot even as I can’t define them but I know that when the hippy trail was in full flow back in the 1970s hitch-hikers/travellers had to carry vaccine certificates with them to get into certain countries, TB (BCG) being the big one. Nothing new there.

43044 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bella, 1, #374 of 1372 🔗

Ah but they were easily forged back then. Those were the days my friend.

43431 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to bluemoon, #375 of 1372 🔗

We thought they’d never end, …

43069 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, #376 of 1372 🔗


The plans are there *now* for it to be added to passports – they are planning to promote it to EU citizens during ‘European immunisation week ‘, whenever that is.. (scroll down and you will see). Doubt the UK will not do the same, given Boris’s recent meetings with Bill Gates and his promising large amounts of funding to GAVI…

43082 ▶▶▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Bella, #377 of 1372 🔗

Ha! That’s true, I’d forgotten. Cholera vaccination certificates too even though they were only about 50% effective.

42957 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #378 of 1372 🔗

See my post from yesterday: https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/04/latest-news-67/#comment-42146

My final paragraph: There are now more and more calls for total eradication of the virus as the best and only way to minimise losses. In trading terms this is effectively saying it’s safest not to trade at all.

In a way the people calling for eradication want to give up. They’ve decided it’s easier to wish the problem away and not have to deal with it.

Now I don’t disagree with the principle of eradication, I just don’t think it’s necessary in this instance.

42969 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #379 of 1372 🔗

Regarding eradication, I guess many people would like to see all illness and death itself eradicated, but it’s somewhat academic. It has been close to impossible to eradicate viruses, certainly those that do not cause symptoms in many of the those who are infected. Trying to eradicate it would be catastrophic for the human race.

The Swedish approach is the only sustainable one, unless most of the planet wants to live utterly shit lives indefinitely.

42975 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, 6, #380 of 1372 🔗

Setting the eradication baseline for something with an assumed IFR of around 1% is just not sensible in my opinion.

By taking these measures for something so weak they have actually undermined the effectiveness of taking these actions in future where they may be more warranted for something far more deadly.

42979 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #381 of 1372 🔗
43014 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #382 of 1372 🔗

Covid is now endemic in most of the European population, including ours. How do they think they’ll eradicate it? Such a smokescreen!

43124 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, #383 of 1372 🔗

Nippy masks and small green houses to drink pints in – its all starting on the glorious 10th. Have you not being paying attention?!

After a week or so of that I think we might move on to a large, wicker effergy being set alight and drifted out on a punt into a golden sunset. Job done, bin the billions vaccines they are busy producing and Christmas as normal.

43019 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #384 of 1372 🔗

My freedom doesn’t end where their fear begins and if we have to take to the streets to iron out our disagreements so be it. I don’t care what the majority view is here, if it means living in captivity I won’t buy it.

42913 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 1, #385 of 1372 🔗

Meanwhile over in Daily Mail land….the plague of nonsense continues


43005 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to T. Prince, 3, #386 of 1372 🔗

It’s a non story as it is now easily treated with antibiotics. But let’s scare everyone with the headline.

42926 Dinger, replying to Dinger, 10, #387 of 1372 🔗

For KH1485 – you’re in the DM (follow Toby’s link to Peter Hitchens above or https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8490527/PETER-HITCHENS-Weve-turned-normal-humans-muzzled-masochists.html !
Well Done.

42933 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Dinger, 6, #388 of 1372 🔗

UK Column feature KH1485 today also.

42974 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Dinger, 3, #389 of 1372 🔗

Excellent article. I agree with his every word.

42930 Mark H, 18, #390 of 1372 🔗

Gotta love a bit of gaslighting on a Monday.

Sturgeon announces that she’s “ nervous ” about Scotland coming out of lockdown and reminds everything that the “ virus is still at large “. Meanwhile, get out there and hand your personal details over to a stranger at the entrance to a beer garden so that you can be traced, let them check your temperature, then scan the fucking barcode to order your drinks!

Also, if you don’t need to wear a mask in a beer garden, why do you need to wear a mask in a supermarket?

42931 Awkward Git, 2, #391 of 1372 🔗

This article from a while back gives some good arguments for us sceptics and unbelievers to use against the believers.

Put simply, easy to understand and the links to the research.


42940 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 23, #392 of 1372 🔗

Getting frustrated listening to the idiocy from Government so just sent the PM this via the contact No.10 website but don’t expect anything to come of it:

“Why is the farce continuing of restrictions and local lockdowns in the face of overwhelming and ever increasing evidence that the “science” you claim to be following is wrong and your actions are actually making things worse and doing ever more destruction to the economy and society? Why are you (and other governments around the world) deliberately misleading the hard of thinking into believing that a “positive test” is the same as an “active case”? It is not, it just means that antibodies have been detected in your sample, it does NOT mean you are suffering from anything. Using a PCR test in this way is totally wrong and this is said time and time again by it’s inventor – the quotes and interviews are easy to find, even one of your researchers should be able to do it. Then you use this to force continued incarceration on the population. Either this is deliberate or your “scientists” are incompetent or deliberately giving you false information. So once again – WHY is this continuing?”

43016 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #393 of 1372 🔗

Because it is deliberate and,.as far as I can tell, pretty much policy across all G8 countries.

43048 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bella, 3, #394 of 1372 🔗

Yep, they march in lockstep or is that goosestep?

42942 Tony Rattray, replying to Tony Rattray, 6, #395 of 1372 🔗



That is, serving a coffee in a visor to a lonely tinpot dictator. Do as your told, or else. The state knows best.

42950 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tony Rattray, 16, #396 of 1372 🔗

It’s enough to make you throw up. And as for the reasons why people are staying away:

Nic Wood, the managing director of parent company Signature Pubs, said it was important to show customers that they were open and safe.

But he said they were facing a “huge hurdle” in convincing people to return to the hospitality industry.

“It’s very worrying how quiet Edinburgh city centre, the Grassmarket, is at the moment,” he added.

“Trying to persuade people to come back when they have been told to stay at home and not to socialise is the biggest job by far to overcome.”

The last sentence is right, and wrong. Yes, people have been brainwashed and turned into bedwetters by the constant government and MSM propaganda. However, there will also be large numbers who, like me, will just say “bollocks to it. I’ll go back to the cafes and pubs when all the antisocial distancing is a thing of the past”.

42952 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 10, #397 of 1372 🔗

They seem to have underestimated the numbers of people who will wait till all the rules are dropped before going out socially..

42965 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #398 of 1372 🔗

I suppose that won’t change if the unsheeple don’t bother to let them know how they feel.

43013 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tenchy, 6, #399 of 1372 🔗

Like me too. I’m going into none of these places until there are no Covid restrictions. Write emails telling them that, don’t let them labour under the illusion that it’s because people are scared.

43062 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, 1, #400 of 1372 🔗

Bombarding establishments and organisations with letters, and cancelling subscriptions, seems to be all we can do just now..

43093 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, #401 of 1372 🔗

And they bet ignored by upper management who are common purpose infested.

43167 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #402 of 1372 🔗

We can talk to people in the street and gently sow seeds for citical thinking. Nothing big. No convincing needed. A few words of brief conversation. Others feel the same as you out there.

43334 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, #403 of 1372 🔗

Absolutely. Always, when possible, start a conversation with anyone who isn’t an obvious zombie.There are lots of them out there who don’t realise that they are not the only sane person left. Note the relief on their faces when you convey to them that they aren’t.
If they are receptive, refer them to this site! Be a missionary for sanity!

43091 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Bella, 1, #404 of 1372 🔗

that’s me, minus the letter writing

42964 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tony Rattray, 4, #405 of 1372 🔗

Mad Nic looks as if a huge spiky superbug might leap out of the cup and attack her!

43041 ▶▶▶ GrowYourOwn, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #406 of 1372 🔗

Hope the waiter spat in coffee.

42948 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #407 of 1372 🔗

Bit on Devi Sridhar who is advising Scotland on how to handle the pandemic:



Same names again – Bill Gates, World Economic Forum, Wellcome Trust

What a surprise.

42966 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #408 of 1372 🔗

Devi covered on ukcolumn today. It turns out she accused half of Scottish people for being anti-English. Then apologied for getting muddled. Think she may blame it on the dastardly bastards of the internet who upset her perception of herself by expressing that she really, really isn’t all that. Forgive my american twang there devi is american and so makes mistakes about who and what Scottish are, I think that was her excuse. Think it through devi, you are not liked – you are out of your depth by a country mile (football pitch and a bit more). You are not a politician and have no right to control our people, you are floundering under your stress. Act like a reasonable adult and admit you are wrong, you might be respected for doing that.

42973 ▶▶▶ Tony Rattray, replying to Basics, 3, #409 of 1372 🔗

Yes, check out her stint on question time a while ago. She cannot even present basic scientific data, stating that sweden was doing badly under its approach although it continues to have comparable death rates to scotland with the real issue for both being the high care home deaths. So is scotland doing badly under your advice devi? Absolutely!

43455 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tony Rattray, #410 of 1372 🔗

Her book is not getting good reviews even allowing for the partisan reviewer who despite the clinton name. Suggest reading to take the measure of the unimpressive professor.

42954 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 16, #411 of 1372 🔗

From the comments on OffG:

Gezzah: Here in Melbourne, 3000 residents of 9 Housing Estates are now under complete house arrest, with up to 500 police stationed on all levels of the properties to ensure no one leaves their Flat.
No one is allowed outside their door for Any reason, including to get food or medicine.
These lockdowns will last anywhere from between 5 and 14 days. Any resident who refuses testing for the virus will be detained for a further 14 days.

Let’s hope Mutt Wankock doesn’t get any ideas ……

42955 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #412 of 1372 🔗

Ok, so what happens when they need food or medicine then? Were they given any advance notice of this lockdown?

42959 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 5, #413 of 1372 🔗

I dread to think. It had crossed my mind. Maybe an Aussie on here might be able to answer that one for us.

42960 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #414 of 1372 🔗

Ye gods, I thought Australians had a bit more sense (and democracy) than that.

The world is becoming a very scary place – which is starting to feel as if aliens have arrived and taken over: let’s hope they are well-fed vegetarians who have never tapped into the film Soylent Green!

43138 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to IanE, #415 of 1372 🔗

Let’s hope they are politarians (they only eat politicians).

43002 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cbird, 11, #417 of 1372 🔗

Coming to a cinema near you soon. These weren’t even cases, they were positive tests. This is not lockdown, it is imprisonment and is needless and vicious suppression of the citizens. The people implementing this should be prosecuted: people dying because refused access to food or medicine could be construed as homicide.

43003 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 3, #418 of 1372 🔗

Bread and cereal? What if you’re diabetic?

43059 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #419 of 1372 🔗


43064 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Cbird, 6, #420 of 1372 🔗

If Boris sanctions that nonsense here, it will be the end of him. He’d never come back from it.
What about those poor people if they have animals elsewhere to look after? (Always my worry, with caring for horses.). What about food and drink? You can’t just drop off bread and milk . . . some folk might not eat what the authorities provide for whatever reason. And I can’t see the police offering to take shopping lists.

43235 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to CarrieAH, #421 of 1372 🔗

Don’t think anything will be end of hi, .he’s already got away with commissioning violence on journalists and that was years back. May had more resistance than Johnson is getting. She was useless, he’s far worse.

43427 ▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to CarrieAH, #422 of 1372 🔗

We need to be preparing so that if that happens in the UK we can break the poor folks loose from their berlin walls.

43020 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #423 of 1372 🔗

Did somebody misspell Auschwitz as Australia?

43110 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, #424 of 1372 🔗

Prodably me!

43237 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #425 of 1372 🔗

China is spreading, not coronavirus

42958 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 28, #426 of 1372 🔗

Is it just me, or does anyone else find this “taking the knee” crap, thoroughly repulsive behaviour?


42962 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 24, #427 of 1372 🔗

Absolutely. There’s something about it that’s so cringeworthy it makes me reflexively want to vomit.

43018 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #428 of 1372 🔗

Same here, it’s the infallible mark of the sceptic.

42963 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Tenchy, 2, #429 of 1372 🔗

Utterly repulsive yes and very conformist too.

42967 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tenchy, 10, #430 of 1372 🔗

Quite so – and that was before I saw the unpleasant photo of Keir Smarmy doing so!

42970 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Tenchy, 7, #431 of 1372 🔗

Definitely not just you!

42978 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Tenchy, 10, #432 of 1372 🔗

The constant propaganda has ruined sport for me. I watch sport to get away from the political bullshit.

42980 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to daveyp, 6, #433 of 1372 🔗

yes – watched last nights match of day this morning. Featured item on hand clapping for NHS, then for each game, showed the kneeling and each commentator making appropriately sincere anti racist “aren’t our woke millionaire footballers so wonderful” comment. FFS this is a highlights programme!!!.
Also goal of month. I think next week there should be a “BLM kneel of the month” where we can see again all the kneeling from each match and vote on which one signalled most virtue.

42989 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to mjr, 7, #434 of 1372 🔗

When the crowds are finally, graciously, allowed back into the stadiums, I wonder if the kneeing shite will be still be done? I bet it won’t – beause the vast majority of supporters would boo it to buggery.

42999 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to mjr, 6, #435 of 1372 🔗

See, we all went to sleep and woke up in a fascist state. Easily done when we don’t pay attention.

43001 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #436 of 1372 🔗


42985 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 6, #437 of 1372 🔗

I’m not intending to watch any professional sport ever again, for many reasons, this among them.

At least there was some distinction made between “end racism” (arguably not a specifically political goal, depending on your definition of racism) and “Black Lives Matter” (a political movement).

43047 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 1, #438 of 1372 🔗

I gave up watching professional sport when I stopped playing as an amateur.

Last football match I went to see George Best was playing for HIbs.

I was told by a psychologist a long time ago and this phrase always stuck in my dull brain – sport is like masturbation, it is better to participate than spectate.

This is why I don’t watch it anymore.

43029 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Tenchy, 6, #439 of 1372 🔗

I’ve always been a leftie liberal but the taking the knee thing makes me want to pluck my eye balls out and poach them in boiling water. What the hell is it supposed to mean? By taking the knee I’m not racist. By refusing to do it I am a racist. Do people really think symbolic acts mean anything in reality? Life isn’t that simple.

Millionaires taking the knee is even more sickening. I’ve also always hated Comic Relief/Sports Relief for similar reasons.

43105 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tenchy, 1, #440 of 1372 🔗

No more watching F1, can’t listen to masked people

43146 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Victoria, 3, #441 of 1372 🔗

Yeah, the interviews are terrible.

Also, did you notice that the drivers on the podiums opened the champagne, took a swig, then spayed the contaminated champagne on the other drivers on the podiums, and then all over their team mates! So, they wear masks then spread disease that way as it would go in peoples eyes, nose and mouth, plus it becomes an aerosol so travels and affects people further afield!

The masks, PPE, and social distancing makes no sense.

43161 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to daveyp, #442 of 1372 🔗

Good spot. Its the simple things that tell you there is no Black Death!

43211 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, #443 of 1372 🔗

No, but if the ‘heroes’ wear masks then the proles follow suit. All thought out.

43107 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 5, #444 of 1372 🔗

In the drivers press conference when discussing the 6 drivers who refused to kneel, but did stand in support of anti racism, Hamilton came out with a line about being silent is showing complicity, or however he worded it, meaning each person must actively take action to be anti-racist.

So by his own logic silence on child abuse should that be taken as complicity? I absolutely don’t think so – but his logic makes this thought a reasonable possibility?

I’ve never heard him speak up about modern day slavery – are we complicit by his silence? Again, i do not think we are in anyway complicit.

I cannot follow others thoughts which tell me I must do something and if I don’t it makes me x y or z – it is coercive control.

Racism is wrong of course it is. Personally i think these actions and ar connected to an entirely separate agenda than anti racism. It is about controling thought, only in the micro realm intended, as I’ve shown condeming silence is not a sound principle to progress on.

Perhaps their are different kinds of silence…

43210 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, 4, #445 of 1372 🔗

Hamilton not paying his taxes because he lives in Monaco is pretty complicit in failing to eradicate child poverty in this country. Posturing means fuck all.

43424 ▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Bella, #446 of 1372 🔗

Note that, averaged across the UK population, the first £30(f-ing)K of taxes go to paying off the debt of the illegal lockdown. A mean average of 30 f-ing grand of taxes from everyone before any tax is used towards anything useful.

42961 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #447 of 1372 🔗

Some useful info on why the PCR test is useless for diagnosing CV19:


“if we do a PCR corona test on an immune person, it is not a virus that is detected, but a small shattered part of the viral genome. The test comes back positive for as long as there are tiny shattered parts of the virus left. “

42992 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #448 of 1372 🔗

On 22nd April I had the audacity to make this statement on a BBC HYS thread:

“Everyone has natural immunity (should be resistance though) to something. They just don’t know for sure till they get it. ****** was saying we’d have to wait till everyone gets it before they are immune.

I’m saying they’re already immune/resistant and just waiting to be confirmed.”

This was just my personal opinion based on how nature works. Common sense so to speak, and I’m as common as you can get. Needless to say my remark was jumped upon by, presumably, experts all claiming that there is zero immunity because the virus was totally new.

43000 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #449 of 1372 🔗

I’m afraid if using common sense were the established way to conduct science, most of the “experts” would be out of a job – and deep down they know it.

43004 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #450 of 1372 🔗

My favourite part:

But this common sense seems to have eluded many, let’s call them “immunity deniers” just for fun. This new breed of deniers had to observe that the majority of people who tested positive for this virus, i.e. the virus was present in their throats, did not get sick. The term “silent carriers” was conjured out of a hat and it was claimed that one could be sick without having symptoms.

Wouldn’t that be something! If this principle from now on gets naturalised into the realm of medicine, health insurers would really have a problem, but also teachers whose students could now claim to have whatever disease to skip school, if at the end of the day one didn’t need symptoms anymore to be sick.

43012 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #451 of 1372 🔗

If they were experts, they would acknowledge that it is perfectly possible that people who have not been exposed to this virus might have some immunity to it from prior exposure to other coronaviruses.

43026 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #452 of 1372 🔗

Problem with a lot of experts is that they generally won’t stick their necks out in saying something that’s not already a proven fact.

Maybe some experts who have a formidabble reputation could risk it but others trying to make a name for themselves are unlikely to risk their careers by being controversial.

43772 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Nobody2020, #453 of 1372 🔗

During this coronavirus hysteria, I have heard expert after expert trotting out unproven “fact” after “fact”. Think the two metre social distancing rule or wearing masks, etc.

42996 ▶▶ ted, replying to Mimi, 8, #455 of 1372 🔗

And the money quote from the Medium piece:

So if we do a PCR corona test on an immune person, it is not a virus that is detected, but a small shattered part of the viral genome. The test comes back positive for as long as there are tiny shattered parts of the virus left. Correct: Even if the infectious viri are long dead, a corona test can come back positive, because the PCR method multiplies even a tiny fraction of the viral genetic material enough [to be detected]. That’s exactly what happened, when there was the global news, even shared by the WHO, that 200 Koreans who already went through Covid-19 were infected a second time and that there was therefore probably no immunity against this virus. The explanation of what really happened and an apology came only later, when it was clear that the immune Koreans were perfectly healthy and only had a short battle with the virus. The crux was that the virus debris registered with the overly sensitive test and therefore came back as “positive”. It is likely that a large number of the daily reported infection numbers are purely due to viral debris.

Oops. Kinda throws cold water on the party (test) like its 1999 policy now doesn’t it.

42997 ▶▶▶ ted, replying to ted, 1, #456 of 1372 🔗

Oh, just saw Cheezilla’s post. Great minds and all that.

43007 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to ted, 1, #457 of 1372 🔗

Quote from the man who invented the erst:

” Quantitive PCR is an oxymoron.”

42972 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 1, #458 of 1372 🔗


We’ve known these figures for some time on LS but it’s nice to see others picking it up.

42998 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to smileymiley, 2, #459 of 1372 🔗

So even if you include the under 60’s with pre existing conditions it’s still much less people dying of Covid than home accidents ( approximately 6000 each year )

43017 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark B, 3, #460 of 1372 🔗

ROSPA’s annual report on domestic accidents is the funniest thing ever. Solemn statistics on life-threatening injuries from trousers, tea cosies, hairbrushes, woolly toys…and if zombies only knew how dangerous that under-bed space is,they wouldn’t go there.

42976 mjr, replying to mjr, 14, #461 of 1372 🔗

finally had hair cut today. regular barber relocated to new small shop. he is a sceptic but as he is worried by the rules he has to follow and the punishment if he is caught not following them (fines?). The shop is fitted out with perspex and stickers. He wore a visor which obscured his vision so it was partially lifted so he could see, and so was not effective. I had to wear a mask – first time ever .. just in case we were spotted and he was dobbed in… how unpleasant. Of course the ludicrous thing was i also needed my beard trimming. Dont know what the rules are.. Should i have a mask shaped beard? So i removed the mask and it became much more pleasant for all of us.
He mentioned that he knew a hairdresser in London who was checked out by some authority on saturday to ensure rules are being followed.
Following saturday’s trial day he was complaining that having to sterilise after each customer means that he can work at 75% – he has to spread out the appointments so his earnings are down. In the past he would also squeeze in walk-ins but he cannot do that.
The whole thing was a farce. imposed by the rules
Also called in to big Asda for first time since lockdown. OK but silly one way system on alternative aisles.

42984 ▶▶ Bella, replying to mjr, 13, #462 of 1372 🔗

Welcome to the Stasi and the sheep who support it.

42987 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bella, 15, #463 of 1372 🔗

barber has my sympathy. he doesnt want to do all this but as you say there is now a stasi culture of reporting neighbours to the authorities so he feels he has to look like he is following the rules. I blame Pisser Morgan for his “name and shame” approach for anyone that breaks the rules

43042 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to mjr, 2, #464 of 1372 🔗

You don’t have to wear a face nappy -nothing in the rules says you have to.

43165 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to arfurmo, #465 of 1372 🔗

The hairdressing salon that I use have said that although they know it’s not the law, they will not allow anyone in the salon who isn’t wearing a mask. I think it was as well that I managed to go on Saturday, because I can’t see me going again in the forseeable future 🙁

43053 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, 3, #466 of 1372 🔗

Interesting – if these are guidelines, then why is anyone checking up on whether they are followed??? Technically there is no legal comeback for not following guidance, because it is not law…

42977 Sylvie, #468 of 1372 🔗

Wondering if John Pretty and others have thoughts on this.
Up to now I’ve thought that Leicester’s so called ‘outbreak’ was the result of increased testing in June in the garment area of the city.But looking at the Govt tracker website: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=ltlas&map=rate&area=e07000080

the 2 July figures for cases (positive tests) across both Pillars 1 & 2, apparently now altered to cut out duplication (so now it’s people tested, not numbers of tests) were as follows (by lower tier local authority):

Total cases/ Rate per 100,000 population

Leicester 3,850/ 1,083
Ashford 1,271/ 983
.Barrow 598 /890
Preston 1,147/ 808
Oldham 1,833/ 777
Bradford 4,168/ 775

Leicester still top, but the next is Ashford in Kent.

Ashford appears to have only one drive-in test site, opened 13 June, which is presumably the source for its Pillar 2 results, the Pillar 1 presumably coming from the local William Harvey Hospital in Ashford.

On 14 June the local newspaper reported some suggestions from a senior clinical research fellow at the University of Kent:
“It’s most interesting and we’re working with some people in Kent County Council to try and understand this better.
The key thing is, I don’t think there’s any current justification for the support for the idea that it’s anything about different hospitals having different testing behaviours.
I don’t think there’s any particular evidence of that.
What is more likely to explain it, we think, is something different about the populations of these places, the types of work they do, how they travel about, how they live…
Ashford is home to William Harvey Hospital, which falls under the East Kent Hospital Trust, alongside QEQM in Margate, Kent and Canterbury Hospital in Canterbury and Buckland Hospital in Dover.
Assessing the prominence of the hospital, Dr Forbes said: “I’m not convinced there’s any evidence that William Harvey has done any more testing than any other part of Kent, particularly.
“You have to remember, that William Harvey, the organisation that William Harvey belongs to, is exactly the same organisation as the Kent and Canterbury, and the Margate Hospital.
Any policy that would have been implemented to do more testing at William Harvey would have also affected Canterbury and Margate as well because they’re the same organisation, they’re the same lab.”

Ashford’s MP cited: ‘ a bad outbreak in one of the area’s larger care homes’, but also highlighted the town’s direct link into Europe, i.e. Eurostar – although Eurostar says the last ski trains ran on the weekend of March 14 and 15, as ski resorts were closed following advice from the French Government.

Focusing just on the ‘types of work that they do’, what no-one seems to have pointed out is that Ashford is also home to one of the largest livestock markets in the UK, functioning throughout the lockdown to keep food supplies going, and a busy local meat processing abattoir, with a fair proportion of BAME workers.

So – can we expect Ashford to be next on the list for a second lockdown, looks pretty much the next best candidate after Leicester?

42982 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #469 of 1372 🔗

Telegraph editor, pushing the pro-lockdown propaganda piece from yesterday.

As the lockdown gradually morphs into more targeted restrictions, it seems like an appropriate time to reflect on it as a policy. We asked 18 leading experts and Telegraph writers to assess the lockdown, its effectiveness and its impact in Britain on health and science, politics, economics and society. It’s very much worth a read .

Those of you who’ve read the article will know that it’s a load of tosh.
However, the comments are a different matter altogether.

43015 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #470 of 1372 🔗

Yes, read the comments!
The DT will talk sense for a while and then lapse into idiocy. With periodic instructions for making yourself a pretty frilly muzzle.
It was the muzzle lessons that made me cancel my sub.

43054 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 3, #471 of 1372 🔗

You wonder how long until the Telegraph closes down the comments on that article – they have done so before, when the comments have not been to their liking..

43137 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, 1, #472 of 1372 🔗

Perhaps the Barclay brothers and the editorial team are having a little merry dance around each other.

43327 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella, #473 of 1372 🔗

The Barclays have been paranoid for decades.

43006 Sylvie, replying to Sylvie, 2, #474 of 1372 🔗

Wondering if John Pretty and others have thoughts on this.
Up to now I’ve thought that Leicester’s so called ‘outbreak’ was the result of increased testing in June in the garment area of the city.But looking at the Govt tracker website: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=ltlas&map=rate&area=e07000080
the 2 July figures for cases (positive tests) across both Pillars 1 & 2, apparently now altered to cut out duplication (so now it’s people tested, not numbers of tests) were as follows (by lower tier local authority):
Total cases/ Rate per 100,000 population
Leicester 3,850/ 1,083
Ashford 1,271/ 983
.Barrow 598 /890
Preston 1,147/ 808
Oldham 1,833/ 777
Bradford 4,168/ 775
Leicester still top, but the next is Ashford in Kent.
Ashford appears to have only one drive-in test site, opened 13 June, which is presumably the source for its Pillar 2 results, the Pillar 1 presumably coming from the local William Harvey Hospital in Ashford.
On 14 June the local newspaper reported some suggestions from a senior clinical research fellow at the University of Kent:
“It’s most interesting and we’re working with some people in Kent County Council to try and understand this better.
The key thing is, I don’t think there’s any current justification for the support for the idea that it’s anything about different hospitals having different testing behaviours.
I don’t think there’s any particular evidence of that.
What is more likely to explain it, we think, is something different about the populations of these places, the types of work they do, how they travel about, how they live…
Ashford is home to William Harvey Hospital, which falls under the East Kent Hospital Trust, alongside QEQM in Margate, Kent and Canterbury Hospital in Canterbury and Buckland Hospital in Dover.
Assessing the prominence of the hospital, Dr Forbes said: “I’m not convinced there’s any evidence that William Harvey has done any more testing than any other part of Kent, particularly.
“You have to remember, that William Harvey, the organisation that William Harvey belongs to, is exactly the same organisation as the Kent and Canterbury, and the Margate Hospital.
Any policy that would have been implemented to do more testing at William Harvey would have also affected Canterbury and Margate as well because they’re the same organisation, they’re the same lab.”

Ashford’s MP cited: ‘ a bad outbreak in one of the area’s larger care homes’, but also highlighted the town’s direct link into Europe, i.e. Eurostar – although Eurostar says the last ski trains ran on the weekend of March 14 and 15, as ski resorts were closed following advice from the French Government.
Focusing just on the ‘types of work that they do’, what no-one seems to have pointed out is that Ashford is also home to one of the largest livestock markets in the UK, functioning throughout the lockdown to keep food supplies going, and a busy local meat processing abattoir, with a fair proportion of BAME workers.
So – can we expect Ashford to be next on the list for a second lockdown, looks pretty much the next best candidate after Leicester

43083 ▶▶ John P, replying to Sylvie, 2, #475 of 1372 🔗

I sent Toby a map of the position of the testing centres in Leicester on Sunday morning. There were 11 recorded on the council website yesterday morning. Three were outside the city boundary. Seven of the remaining eight were clustered in the high density Asian parts of the city, where it is rumoured there are garment sweatshops.

I don’t know if I can upload the map here. Toby hasn’t responded to my e-mail.

43130 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Sylvie, 3, #476 of 1372 🔗

… but I thought the Leicester lockdown was because it was three times worse than the next worst city! These “recalibrated” figures show that it was very little worse than many others.

Surely they should need figures for hospitalised cases to justify Draconian action. I haven’t seen any for Leicester.

43169 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #477 of 1372 🔗

Because the hospitalised numbers were nothing to get excited about. That’s why they needed the Pillar 2 fudge.

43174 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #478 of 1372 🔗

Yeah, exactly. And according to A ‘very concerned doctor’ who posted here a couple of times, ( Toby’s Doctor Q,?) the hospital’s Intensive Therapy Unit was never in danger of being overwhelmed, and blanket testing of all maternity admissions showed a background
asymptomatic infection rate of about 1%. Probably not much different from anywhere else except London, where it’s pretty much burned itself out by now. Why was Leicester confined to barracks, and not Ashford? Ashford has a well connected, long serving Conservative MP and Kent is a staunchly Conservative County Council, obviously completely unconnected facts.

43182 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sylvie, #479 of 1372 🔗

I had a conversation about ashford with a friend who’s relatively local to there recently (a few weeks ago) and he mentioned that cases seemed to be climbing there. There was a mooted explanation – can’t remember what. I’ll check and get back to you.

43028 Edna, replying to Edna, 7, #480 of 1372 🔗

I’ve just seen on Simon Dolan’s Twitter feed that the judge has refused permission to challenge the lockdown 🙁

43031 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Edna, 13, #481 of 1372 🔗

He’s going to appeal though.
But yet again the judiciary favouring the elite & HMG!

43038 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to smileymiley, 3, #482 of 1372 🔗

We need a judge John deed

43173 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Major Panic, 1, #483 of 1372 🔗

Brought to us by our honest, neutral friends at the bbc ?

(I’ve never seen it. Even back then, it smelled of state propaganda bollox.).

43089 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to smileymiley, 3, #484 of 1372 🔗

I think I’ll contribute again just for the hell of it.

43046 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Edna, 7, #485 of 1372 🔗

Gutted 🙁
Do we think the government will now tighten the lockdown again? They seemed to be dropping rules all over the place in advance of the judicial challenge – now they have won, there is no longer any incentive to ‘release us’…

43078 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 11, #486 of 1372 🔗

You don’t get it.

The point is that the government shouldn’t have any right to impose any sort of lockdown.

Tightening/releasing is irrelevant. They don’t control you. It’s not for them to impose any sort of limitation on you, or grant any sort of freedom to you.

You are not their prisoner.

Your life is no concern of theirs. (Or anyone else’s).

I don’t recognise their authority. I find out the minimum I need to know.

43094 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 7, #487 of 1372 🔗

Oh I get it all right – what I was meaning was that the government, knowing they were in the wrong, tried to manipulate the result of the case by removing some of the restrictions in advance of the challenge in order to try and nullify Simon’s arguments. I *know* they cannot impose any limitations on us, or at least they should not have been able to. Grrr!

43325 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 2, #488 of 1372 🔗

So Simon appeals, and we contribute, and we keep on pushing until the whole rotten, lousy edifice falls down.

And do the little things. Eat, drink, be merry, avoid zombie shops, ignore one-way signs in supermarkets, curse the NHS, wear protest t-shirts, tear down notices, stand tall, have fun.

NEVER DESPAIR. We need to release our inner Churchill. Not Bojo’s ratling version, but the real one.

43114 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to John P, 5, #489 of 1372 🔗

The trouble is they can and they have and there’s not enough resistance to stand up to them. That’s why I feel so impotent at the moment. We’e in a profound minority and were this 1939 we would have surrendered in a trice.

43260 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, #490 of 1372 🔗

Good for them, but how does it help us, unless the MSM report it widely and it makes the people of Leicester rise up and rebel (for example)?

43163 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 8, #491 of 1372 🔗

Ray of hope?

An interesting development from Germany – a court has overturned an emergency lockdown imposed in the town of Guetersloh following an outbreak in a slaughterhouse there, ruling that the restrictions were disproportionate.

43261 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #492 of 1372 🔗

Good for them, but how does it help us, unless the MSM report it widely and it makes the people of Leicester rise up and rebel (for example)?

43052 ▶▶ PaulK, replying to Edna, 3, #493 of 1372 🔗

I’m gutted too but not surprised how far this corruption goes. It’s the first battle of WWIII, we won’t give up LS…

43055 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Edna, 8, #494 of 1372 🔗

Not surprised from what was live tweeted during the hearing. The judge was clearly on the government’s side.

43030 Ed Phillips, replying to Ed Phillips, 4, #495 of 1372 🔗

I spent much of last week preparing my church for re-opening yesterday. We broadly followed the guidance but there were places where we interpreted it loosely.
Has the government ever stated a desire to end these restrictions we’re living under? Their initial document talked about Stage 3 beginning on 4th July. Did they ever get round to announcing the end of it or are we going to be kept in this forever?

43185 ▶▶ Athanasius, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #496 of 1372 🔗

My big concern is that there is no end possible. I mean, the sane, rational thing would be to stand up right now and say, panic over (in fact we shouldn’t have ever panicked, so sorry about that), all restrictions are over, get on with your lives everyone, and by the way, sorry for screwing you over for the last few months. But since that is the sane and rational thing, clearly that won’t happen.

So, the trouble is that they’ve got themselves into a corner they can’t easily get out of. There’s no disease in the population now, and they will always be wetting the bed about this mythical second wave, so what can change to make them lift the restrictions further?

And since you speak of the guidance on churches, the bishops have excelled themselves with doing the same thing, only even worse, since their guidelines go beyond even what the government has mandated and in some cases are so utterly unreasonable that – since there exists no justification for them now – there can be no change in situation that allows for them to be relaxed.

In my view, the only hope is a grass-roots movement, where enough people are willing to say, No, I will NOT accept this. It’s sort of happened in the general population already, I suspect, in as much as most people *I think* are just bored of it all and only pay lip service to all the crap while merrily accepting any opportunities to have good old fashioned fun. But this is no use to businesses and churches, who are impacted by the endless reams of regulations and guidelines (backed up, in our case, by threats – if you don’t do this [insert totally unreasonable and pointless restriction], you’re not allowed to have any services!). Like you, we’re being broad in our interpretation, but I know for a fact there have been spies sent to check up on us already, so I await the next bullying missive…

43191 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Athanasius, #497 of 1372 🔗

Yes, this. Better said than I managed.

43202 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Athanasius, 3, #498 of 1372 🔗

I’d say the first step toward the grass roots idea you moot is to connect the blades of grass.
Isolation lockup has the wonderful effect of keeping ideas separate. We all know there are many many folk itching for the sign its okay to say what the hell are you doing to our lives/country/children/relatives/future/past/normal?

Connecting peoples dissent – across all demographs.

43242 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Athanasius, 1, #499 of 1372 🔗

Back to normal Level 1 is supposedly only possible with a vaccine, so in theory they can keep us like this forever if one doesn’t appear.

Having said that, they were constantly banging on about R just a couple of weeks ago, but I can’t remember the last time I heard it mentioned, and the media don’t seem to have noticed its disappearance either (presumably they discovered that it’s a useless measure at the end of an epidemic, as many pointed out at the time). So it seems like they could drop it all right now if they wanted to and most of the population would forget it ever happened…

43257 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Athanasius, #500 of 1372 🔗

How do you know about the spies?

43188 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #501 of 1372 🔗

In theory, defcon 1 on their ludicrous threat level chart means returning to normal, but since that involves “virus magically disappears completely” it’s unlikely to happen.

I think they’re banking on growing disregard for the guidelines. It’s certainly what I’m banking on. I can’t see many churches in the more high profile going for it though, until the hierarchy tells them to, though.

43199 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #502 of 1372 🔗

Don’t do the antisocial distancing, and sing those hymns!

43255 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #503 of 1372 🔗

Sadly no one in the MSM is even asking these questions! What happened to the 5 tests for ending lockdown?

43033 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #504 of 1372 🔗

Plenty of ‘surging’ in The Telegraph today. Fourteen instances so far in the ‘Coronavirus Live Feed Special’ (also three ‘soarings’, but no ‘ramping ups’, as yet).


43034 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Tenchy, 9, #505 of 1372 🔗

I spotted a ‘galloping’ on the BBC website (I think)

43101 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to The Spingler, 3, #506 of 1372 🔗

BBC have started to scare people about the Black Death now:


43154 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #507 of 1372 🔗

Bit behind with the news.

43066 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 3, #508 of 1372 🔗

A it woukd be interesting to make a direct comparison of language from 2 months ago and todays sensational numbers.

43135 ▶▶ Michael C, replying to Tenchy, #509 of 1372 🔗

It’s worth checking out today’s DT sports section and a two page article concerning the Covid driven preparations for the 1st cricket test match, England v West Indies, at Southampton starting on Wednesday. Unbelievable!

43162 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #510 of 1372 🔗

…. the biggest problem right now is that less than half of England’s population know they are eligible for a test if they feel unwell.

Really? What has our MSM been playing at? Surely they are here to inform people of such useful things?

43194 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #511 of 1372 🔗

Depressing conversation when we went as a family to a friend’s house for a barbecue yesterday. Apparently, if she goes on holiday anywhere(including in the UK), her parents will only let her visit them again once she’s had a test.

Putting aside all of the many ways this is beyond stupid (“sorry mum – can’t come to visit. Just tested positive for ‘flu”), it seems to be pretty well established fact that you can get a test now more or less if you feel like it.

I’d also point out that the other day there were 250 thousand something tests with 500 something positives. Not all of those negatives were going because they were key workers.

43253 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, #512 of 1372 🔗

The problem with this is that every test adds to the false stats..
Are this person’s parents vulnerable or paranoid?

43312 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, #513 of 1372 🔗

Father has high blood pressure. So basically the latter.

43036 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 16, #514 of 1372 🔗

Abominable attempt to impose groupthink by Crankie:

She [Sturgeon] also said that those visiting a place where there is a large crowd should consider leaving or not going there at all, adding: “If you go to a bar or a restaurant outside right now, if it feels totally normal, exactly like it was before this pandemic, then something is wrong.”

43061 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 22, #515 of 1372 🔗

Edinburgh meadows currently saying a giant fuck off to that idea.

Apologies for my accuracy of language but really sometimes things need to be accurate.

Telling people if it feels normal its wrong is a physcological messaging trick. It is not scientific, it does not help safe guard anything or anyone it merely feeds into the destabilising of peoples minds. She is batshit crazy.

43100 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 6, #516 of 1372 🔗

been busking in the Meadows a few times over the last few weeks and it’s always very busy. People drinking playing cricket, BBQ’s and the like. No toilet but the wall does.

43121 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Biker, 2, #517 of 1372 🔗

Ha ha!

43156 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 1, #518 of 1372 🔗

The fence through to Ian Rankins lawn is a happier splash.

43181 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 1, #519 of 1372 🔗

tell me where that is and i’ll make sure i piss in his garden the next time i’m there.

43120 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Basics, 5, #520 of 1372 🔗

Swearing is no problem, our household’s cursing has risen in line with our alcohol intake!

43073 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tenchy, 5, #521 of 1372 🔗

I think the silly twat has got cabin fever. I ventured out on my bike today, pub garden across the road from me was full albeit heavily signed with 2m distancing crap. Mostly full of youngsters enjoying themselves all sharing tables. I will venture over at some point. Noticed some sheeple on my journey, mostly elderly who had just got off buses with full maskage. Alarmingly saw a woman jogging and a woman cycling and a car with driver and passenger (in the back) wearing a mask.

43252 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #522 of 1372 🔗

As you say, abominable!

43319 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #523 of 1372 🔗

The utterance of a deranged brain.
Actually, if you go anywhere and it doesn’t feel totally normal ( etc.), then most certainly something is wrong. And we all know what.

43037 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 33, #524 of 1372 🔗

A walk in my town centre today revealed families out enjoying themselves – getting ice creams and chips, it almost looked normal. Yet in a few days the dictator Sturgeon is forcing everyone to wear a muzzle. She is a vile pig.

43119 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Hammer Onats, 14, #525 of 1372 🔗

I would never wear one, my sole purpose from now on is to be as awkward as I can be.

43240 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #526 of 1372 🔗

my sole purpose from now on is to be as awkward as I can be’

Yep, that’s been my motto since Day 1.

43415 ▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Bella Donna, #527 of 1372 🔗

You could get a white one and use black ink to put some text on the front decrying the evils of lockdown, perhaps “I suffered an illegal lockdown and all I got for it was this lousy mask”

43039 Locked down and out, replying to Locked down and out, 3, #528 of 1372 🔗

You can bet your life that Sky News will be all over this story this evening:
Latest UK government figures show a further 16 people have died after testing positive for coronavirus.

43045 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Locked down and out, 9, #529 of 1372 🔗

Zero in Wales today. No doubt if there are two deaths reported tomorrow the headline will scream Deaths in Wales double in a Day!!!!!

43071 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to The Spingler, 2, #530 of 1372 🔗

Or better still increase to infinity

43153 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, 4, #531 of 1372 🔗

Zero to two is an infinite increase!

43195 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to annie, 2, #532 of 1372 🔗

Yes, but you can’t expect journalists to understand that!

43414 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to IanE, #533 of 1372 🔗

You can when doing so lets them panic the public more.

43117 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Locked down and out, 10, #534 of 1372 🔗

I take no notice of anything concerning Covid figures anymore. The government are liars and the NHS isn’t worth saving! The best you can do is look after yourselves, it’s Them v. Us. Never forget that.

43196 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #535 of 1372 🔗

Quite – roll on the revolution: never thought I would say that!

43049 Dinger, replying to Dinger, 12, #536 of 1372 🔗

Recrimnations have started!! Hancock next (please god!)

Ex French PM being sued for ignoring Hydroxychloroquine as a treatment

https://www.afrik.com/edouard-philippe-emporte-par-le-covid-didier-raoult-l-hydroxychloroquine-et-le-remdesivir  (if you use Google, should get option for google translate)

43112 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Dinger, 2, #537 of 1372 🔗


43050 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #538 of 1372 🔗

Here is the judgement denying Dolan judicial review: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/DolanJudgment-FINAL-003-1.pdf
Essentially, the judge preferred the government’s case and so found that the lockdown measures are in fact a rational and reasonable response to the virus given the situation.

43060 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Steve Hayes, 14, #539 of 1372 🔗

Extremely depressing.

43067 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to GLT, 9, #540 of 1372 🔗

The judgement is worth reading because it shows how far the judge was prepared to go in interpreting away our rights.

43068 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Steve Hayes, 12, #541 of 1372 🔗

I’ve skimmed it but interestingly in paragraph 36 (as also with reference previously)

“…given the nature of the public health threat and the purpose underlying the 1984 Act which was to enable measures to be taken to address the threat of epidemics such as serious acute respiratory diseases or SARS.”

How was the public health threat determined? How were cases determined? By using PCR tests rather than calibrated PCR against blind electron microscopy of blood tests?

What has happened here is that a vague test has been taken as the gold standard and yet if this same process was tried for water safety or something like flight software there would be hell to pay.

So really what the court is saying is that we took our medical experts on FAITH but did not TRUST but VERIFY as we do elsewhere.

43080 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to mhcp, 4, #542 of 1372 🔗

And that, as they say, is that. Almost inevitable.Coup de grace of democracy.

43102 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bella, 2, #543 of 1372 🔗

If you let it.

43171 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 4, #544 of 1372 🔗

I’m sure Simon will appeal. NEVER DESPAIR. NEVER GIVE UP.

43090 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, 3, #545 of 1372 🔗

Not only a ‘vague test’, but one whose developer specifically said it was unsuitable for this illness…!

43095 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Carrie, #546 of 1372 🔗

True, however you could use it as a proxy if you could calibrate enough. PCR is a quicker test by all accounts. The error rate would probably be higher. I haven’t even got to the more important thing that you still need to demonstrate that having SARS-Cov-2 actually causes the symptoms it’s supposed to but first things first.

43126 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to mhcp, 4, #547 of 1372 🔗

At the time the government did the lockdown they hardly had any PCR tests anyway. Their defence is only based on the assumption that there was some deadly viral disease going around. It doesn’t matter exactly which virus was causing it and how to test for it.

43079 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #548 of 1372 🔗

86.At the hearing on 2 July 2020, Sir James indicated that the Regulations may be amended in the near future to permit communal worship. No regulations, or even draft regulations, amending regulation 5 were produced at the hearing. 87.Following the hearing on 2 July 2020, I learnt that regulations were made at 10 a.m. on 3 July 2020. Those regulations appear to permit places of worship to hold acts of communal worship for up to 30 people with effect from 4 July 2020. If that is correct, this aspect of the claim may have become academic.

The government outweaselled us!

The judge isn’t stupid. Without a load of concrete evidence to prove that the virus was no worse than a normal flu and that the locjdown has been an over-reaction, he had no option but to swallow the government bollox that the virus posed a serious threat and rule according to the law.

43087 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #549 of 1372 🔗

It is an interesting (and vastly untrue) assumption that no church has over 30 members. Communal worship is not possible if only a fraction of people can attend.. and as for no singing – well, clearly, no MP has been in a church for many years if they think that is reasonable..

43099 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 5, #550 of 1372 🔗

“clearly, no MP has been in a church for many years”

Very clear, I think from the start.

43109 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to John P, 6, #551 of 1372 🔗

If they did worship in a Church it would probably be a satanic cult.

43150 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #552 of 1372 🔗

The devil-cult of Covid, with his priest the NHS, offering human sacrifice in the form of cancer patients and helpless old people.

43413 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to annie, #553 of 1372 🔗

This devil takes livelihoods as sacrifices as well as lives

43204 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 1, #554 of 1372 🔗

Holy Communion is currently impossible at mass. I can’t speak for the Anglican Church, but in the Catholic Church, attending mass and receiving communion is an obligation and not doing so is a sin. Ive no doubt that Francis has provided a blanket dispensation, but this will be cold comfort for many.

43437 ▶▶▶▶▶ Athanasius, replying to matt, #555 of 1372 🔗

Attending Mass on Sunday is an obligation, which no human authority can suspend (although impossibility of course excuses as would some legitimate good reason). Receiving Communion is not obligatory.

43088 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #556 of 1372 🔗

What this judgement tells me is that we do not have any rights or civil liberties. These are mere privileges to be extended or withdrawn depending on the whim of the government of the day.

I’ll let you good people think about it. I intend to think about it overnight.

Remember, the judge ruled **according to the law**. Think about it.

43149 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #557 of 1372 🔗

You are absolutely right. Unfortunately governments make laws. Judges have to uphold them.

The fact the 100s of pages of Coronavirus Act suddenly appeared – oven-ready – shows the government had already taken plenty of time to prepare for this and make sure the legalities were pretty watertight. The judge makes it clear that Simon was pushed for time, especially as the law kept changing underfoot.

43650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Cheezilla, #558 of 1372 🔗

The government drafted what became the Coronavirus Act and associated regulations back in 2016 after Exercise Cygnus, which had concluded that the NHS would be overwhelmed by a pandemic: it was a cheaper option than expanding NHS capacity.

Nevertheless, your claim that the judge judged according to law is an assumption – and a very big assumption. What the judge did was prefer the government’s case and tried to interpret away our rights and liberties, which do not belong to the government.

43343 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #559 of 1372 🔗

Someone told me long ago that we cannot have human rights because we are subjects of the queen. Whether that’s true or not I don’t know but it seems to be happening. I wonder what she thinks of what they are doing in her name.

43395 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to chris c, #560 of 1372 🔗

She’s been very silent of late.. It’s almost like she has been retired..

43086 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #561 of 1372 🔗

No surprise there then even though I contributed.

The judiciary only go against the sitting Government when it suits them.

43152 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #562 of 1372 🔗

I’m not sorry I contributed. Simon stood up and challenged that evil mob when everybody else was cringing.
It was worth it, and I’d do it again even if I knew the result in advance. .

43155 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to annie, 4, #563 of 1372 🔗

I agree, it most certainly was worth it and if he does appeal, I shall contribute again. It seems the very least I can do.

43189 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 1, #564 of 1372 🔗

Every step is worthwhile. Standing still is wrong.
Thanks for your bit.
Another step will be taken.

43092 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #565 of 1372 🔗


43111 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Lockdown Truth, 9, #566 of 1372 🔗

Unbelievable? Not really, the whole Establishment is rotten to the core. This has proved it!

43103 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #567 of 1372 🔗

You need read no further than para 7:
” The role of the court in judicial review is concerned with resolving questions of law. The court is not responsible for making political, social, or economic choices. The court is not responsible for determining how best to respond to the risks to public health posed by the emergence of a novel coronavirus. Those decisions, and those choices, are ones that Parliament has entrusted to ministers and other public bodies.”

43166 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #568 of 1372 🔗

That part seems reasonable actually. It is supposed to be the elected government’s job and not the courts’. Too bad they’re idiots but they did win an election.

43245 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to guy153, 2, #569 of 1372 🔗

Yes, but they are not allowing Parliament to debate their changes to the law.. everything is being done behind the scenes.

43106 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #570 of 1372 🔗

What a load of whitewash! Let’s face it this is no longer a democracy, was it ever? the judiciary is rotten to the core as is the Establishment. Corruption is all around us.

43160 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #571 of 1372 🔗

This part was interesting:

Article 5 of the European Convention on Human Rights says you can detain people “for the prevention of the spreading of infectious diseases”. But I doubt it ever crossed the minds of the authors that this might one be used to justify lockdowns of entire countries rather than selective quarantine of a few people and their contacts.

But the judgment side-stepped this by saying that the UK lockdown didn’t really deprive you of liberty because you could still go out and do stuff and it wasn’t that bad. It does leave the door open for someone to try again in Spain, France or Italy where the lockdowns were much more extreme.

43206 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to guy153, #572 of 1372 🔗

That’s one reason why we need out of the ECHR. The Human Rights Act 1998 also needs scrapping.

43783 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Jonathan Castro, #573 of 1372 🔗

I am puzzled. Why do you think that a judge refusing to uphold the Human Rights Act 1988 and the European Convention on Human Rights is a reason to repudiate the ECHR and repeal the Human Rights Act?

43247 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to guy153, #574 of 1372 🔗

Even so, they are *presuming* that *everyone* is infected, without knowing if people are sick or not. Quarantining the sick is one thing; quarantining the healthy is a step too far and not justified…

43256 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Carrie, #575 of 1372 🔗

It is quite common to quarantine people travelling from places with some awful outbreak of something even if they aren’t sick because you can’t be sure they aren’t incubating it. So there has to be some latitude.

There needs to be some threshold value for the probability you have some disease multiplied by its fatality below which quarantining you is “unreasonable”.

43278 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to guy153, 1, #576 of 1372 🔗

Yes, but 3 months lockdown/quarantine is excessive!

43391 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Carrie, 1, #577 of 1372 🔗

Yes and of the entire population! I don’t think anyone drafting that convention imagined any scenario outside of quarantining a few people at a time for a few weeks.

43397 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, 1, #578 of 1372 🔗

I’d bet a large sum of money that the top-level drafters knew exactly what they were doing.

Cynical ? Me ??

43422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 1, #579 of 1372 🔗

Exactly, see Rockefeller ‘Lockstep’ plan from 2010..

43784 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to guy153, #580 of 1372 🔗

If the government had applied that quarantine requirement at the borders at the beginning of January, it would have been a reasonable precaution, but the government, on the advice of the scientific and health experts, decided not to and allowed the virus to enter the country.

43318 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to guy153, 3, #581 of 1372 🔗

What about Wales? Illegal to leave your home for more than half an hour a day?
Where is the Welsh Simon?

43394 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to annie, #582 of 1372 🔗

Good idea! It would also be an interesting test of the status of “devolved” dictatorships in the UK.

43790 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to guy153, #583 of 1372 🔗

Article 5 of the Convention also states:

Everyone who is deprived of his liberty by arrest or detention shall be entitled to take proceedings by which the lawfulness of his detention shall be decided speedily by a court and his release ordered if the detention is not lawful.

The judge ignored (or rather tried to interpret it away) this requirement.

43170 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #584 of 1372 🔗

Is it just delaying tactics – probably ripe for appeal

43251 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 1, #585 of 1372 🔗

I’m not sure if the few concessions that have been made over the last few weeks would ever have happened if Simon had not brought this case. However, with one victory under their belt, there is less incentive for the government to continue relaxing the legislation, because the likelihood of them winning again in court has now increased.. But nothing ventured, nothing gained..

43454 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #586 of 1372 🔗

The Sage minutes was a huge victory to achieve those off these opague servants of the people.

43056 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #587 of 1372 🔗

I live not far from the RAF Museum and walked past it today – today was their reopening but you had to prebook online for a timed entry.

Walking past the building, it was dead – they had their barriers and staff in face shields but no-one was going in so they were just milling about chatting to each other.

Saw two cars enter the premises but its hard to tell if they were visitors or staff.

It will be interesting to see how other museums who opened today are faring.

43085 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #588 of 1372 🔗

Cosford? Just down the road (A41) from me.

Brilliant place like Duxford.

43192 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #589 of 1372 🔗

Nope. Its in north west London.It’s a good place to visit, have not been back since the WW1 galleries were opened last year.

43108 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #590 of 1372 🔗

North Yorkshire Moors Railway sounds sort of promising.

You have to pre book a table for two or four please or a compartment for six, but no mention of masks.

It going be like travelling on the train in the olden days, before masks, but with steam trains…

Down side, everything is schedules and organised, not just the time of your train but which car park you arrived at the route from the car park through the station to your train.

But then they are offering shenanigans:

“Each train carriage will be thoroughly cleaned and sanitised before welcoming its next set of visitors and onboard toilets will not be in use for the time being. Platform toilets will be available and will be made unisex to enable family groups to use each toilet, one family at a time.

Not sure about using the loo at the same time as Mrs Doubting, sounds a bit modern.

At least no muzzles to be worn.

43193 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #591 of 1372 🔗

Sounds as if they were just about as busy as the average hospital and GP’s surgery!

43301 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, #592 of 1372 🔗

Yep. The funny thing is, the RAF Museum is almost never crowded. The last time I went there (with a friend) we were the only two people during most of the morning we were there. Putting all these nonsense is just ensuring that they won’t really get the numbers that they want.

43063 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #593 of 1372 🔗

Interesting opinion on data for Sweden:

Sweden is back to normal!

43065 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 14, #594 of 1372 🔗

The bottom line, at least for me, is that despite all the hysteria, 2020 has been a very normal year in terms of deaths. I’m very much looking forward to an investigation into what caused the world to overreact to this extreme level…

Interesting summary. Thanks.

43128 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #595 of 1372 🔗

I’m very much looking forward to an investigation into what caused the world to overreact to this extreme level…”

me too!

43187 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Major Panic, 4, #596 of 1372 🔗

Just don’t hold your breath – and remember that the government has an open contract for large supplies of white-wash.

43076 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, 15, #597 of 1372 🔗

Not only back to normal, but back to normal before every other European country that had a lockdown. Who’d’ve thunk it?

43190 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nick Rose, #598 of 1372 🔗

Weren’t we there last week?

43084 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 17, #599 of 1372 🔗

I’m in Uppsala, Sweden’s 4th largest city, with a population of just over 200,000.
While there is a lot that is pleasingly normal, there are still a number of limitations, eg no gatherings over 50 people, which means most churches, cinemas, sports stadiums, gyms etc are still closed. You can hold a wedding as normal so long as you do not exceed 50 guests, and singing is allowed! There are restrictions on visiting residents of care homes, and no visiting patients in hospitals (even if they are there for something other than Covid 19). But there are no mandatory masks – very few people wear them, fortunately 🙂 . Social distancing is encouraged but not enforced.
Hairdressers are open as normal, as are dentists. GPs are doing remote consultations wherever this is practicable.
Our restaurants are open, but with hand sanitiser at the entrance and 1m between tables (but at your own table you can do as you wish regarding distancing). I have seen no staff in visors as yet :).
In supermarkets there are screens at the tills and spots or lines at the till to encourage distancing, but the staff are dressed as usual, there are no limitations on how many people go into the supermarket and no arrows on the floor or anything so one can move freely within the shop. Some clothes shops have closed their fitting rooms, but not all.
Fewer people are using public transport, but again, no masks. Boarding on buses is from the rear doors, the area round the driver is roped off with hazard tape, but otherwise no restrictions.

43096 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, 12, #600 of 1372 🔗

My uncle is in his mid 80’s but acts like he’s half that age, lives on an island near Gavle. We asked him weeks ago if he was obeying the rules. He explained that there are no rules for the over 80’s – he used to go shopping weekly, now he goes daily

43307 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 1, #601 of 1372 🔗

Over 70s are recommended to self-isolate here in Sweden, but they do not *have* to.. Most supermarkets have schemes to accommodate people who are self-isolating, they can use one of the supermarket’s volunteers to shop for them, they can get home delivery or pick up their order outside the shop, and then there are also community groups and churches who are available to help if needed.

43075 Basics, replying to Basics, 16, #602 of 1372 🔗

One point from Vernon Coleman yesterday i think.

If you are going to pubs and handing them the false Seymour Butts of Handjob Way, Facistshire On the Wold. Then you need to be aware they are tracking via your card payment details.

So if you don’t fancy two weeks in the clink (home) because table three had a sneeze the morning before… pay cash.

43104 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, 7, #603 of 1372 🔗

IV just been for a ratch in the hills and stopped at a pub for some grub and a few of the best conditioned pints…. – fcuk it was good. Anyways went to pay and the girl said card only, but accepted cash with tip after i lied about not using cards. The boss seemed happy enough.

43136 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Major Panic, 4, #604 of 1372 🔗

I generally do not have notes I’m my wallet, unless I need it for a specific purpose, last few weeks I now like to keep a few quid handy, never know when you may need to buy something. Using cash feels a bit subversive, going against instructions & regulations.

Has anyone had cash refused?

Your ale sounded good.

43140 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #605 of 1372 🔗

I deliver for a chinese take away – we only accept cash – some give me money in envelopes or bags but most don’t bother – quite normal really and I’v had no problems and I havn’t died yet

43158 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Major Panic, 10, #606 of 1372 🔗

More customers using cash in my shop and grateful that we are willing to accept it (but then, why the hell wouldn’t we, for god’s sake). Been taking cash for 7 weeks now and I haven’t died either.

43358 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to kh1485, 4, #607 of 1372 🔗

Went to petrol station the other day. Signs saying cash only due to “terminal error” odd choice of words in the circs. Noticed free cashpoint at the station so filled and wandered over. Screen had CASH IS THE SAFEST FORM OF PAYMENT splashed all over it and a claim the cash was quarantined for 72 hours. Got cash headed in to pay, cashier behind useless perspex screens. Cash accepted change given hand to hand no less. Not a squirt of hand gel anywhere.

43407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Rick, #608 of 1372 🔗

“CASH IS THE SAFEST FORM OF PAYMENT” it is true, as far as covid goes it only touches the hands of two or three people in any given lifespan period of the virus, most of the rest of the time each note spends a good several days sitting in a wallet of till between separate handling events, more than enough time for most covid viruses to die off (72 hours is the absolute limit for surivival, before then the dose has dropped to levels too low to trigger an infection). Crucially though cash is also safest from: surveillance, random blocking because the bank, merchant, infrastructrue provider didn’t like this particular payment, and failure of unreliable backend infrastructure (VISA went down for a day ast year, good thing there was cash to return to).

43456 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Rick, #609 of 1372 🔗

That’s what amuses me about all these places insisting on card only payments. What happens when the WIFI doesn’t work? Don’t think they’ve factored that in!

Depressing that cash has to be ‘quarantined’, though promising there was no use of hand gel …

43164 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Dave #KBF, 9, #610 of 1372 🔗

My dad had cash refused at a builders merchants,he created a scene and told them to stop being so bloody stupid but they wouldn’t back down,’just following orders from above’ was the reason given.

43227 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul, 2, #611 of 1372 🔗

Could he take his custom somewhere else?

43350 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Carrie, 2, #612 of 1372 🔗

Yes,he did.He won’t be going there again,a shame really,he’s been using them for 50 years but loyalty counts for nothing now.

43409 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Paul, #613 of 1372 🔗

“just following orders from above”, little Eichmanns , can we adopt that as a name for anyone taking that attitude?

43207 ▶▶▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #614 of 1372 🔗

I got some cash from a machine the other day and it felt like I was doing something normal, until I saw the big sticker that explained the cash in the machine had been quarantined for a minimum of 72 hours before being placed in the machine. I still had to touch the keypad so those notes I took out could be infected with all sorts by now.

43292 ▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #615 of 1372 🔗

Cash is being hoarded. When interest rates go neg cash will be banned to prevent bank runs.

43374 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #616 of 1372 🔗

Aldi actually ask if you’re paying by cash or card. No problems there!

Yesterday I popped into my lovely little Nisa shop just round the corner. No antisocial distancing markings anywhere. There’s a tatty notice home-printed on a sheet of A4 that starts “Social Distancing” but it’s impossible to read the rest without going right up to it and I doubt anyone has bothered. It’s very faded and curly round the edges, so looks like the only covid-related measures they’ve taken since March.

Handed over a tenner for a bottle of wine and some bacon, taken with no battings of eyebrows, change given with no todo. No perspex screen, not a mask to be seen. Civilisation!

43404 ▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Dave #KBF, #617 of 1372 🔗

Always pay cash, if anywhere refuses it force exact change into their hands and walk out with the goods, then never shop there again. We need to keep cash in use by whatever means, else the authoritarians will try to eliminate it, as a precursor to negative interest rates, taxes on savings and rationing of the “you’ve bought chips once this week, you may now only buy salad” kind.

43371 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, #618 of 1372 🔗

I was thinking that cashless means the waiters will be done out of their tips!

It occurred to me that if you offer to pay your bill with cash and they try to refuse, can you get away with saying you’ve no credit left on your card?

43385 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #619 of 1372 🔗

Unless they’ve said in advance, you can get away with saying you don’t have a card. They’ll largely accept cash, if you’ve already eaten. 🙂

43132 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Basics, 2, #620 of 1372 🔗

Are you sure? If I use my Halifax credit card, they will have my name and credit card number but can the Contact Tracers get my address from the Halifax? GPDR and all that.

43139 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to arfurmo, 3, #621 of 1372 🔗

arfumo due to the current “emergency”, I dare say GDPR, data protection etc. mean nothing to the authorities.

43147 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, #622 of 1372 🔗

– arfumo due to the current “emergency”, I dare say

43145 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to arfurmo, 1, #623 of 1372 🔗

I was repeating the point made by Vernon Coleman. Yesterday.

As far as I know all apps track data was being fed into an Armed Forces control centre which was anonymising it before putting the data to the NHS for analysis. This procedure was described by UK Column news.

43212 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 1, #624 of 1372 🔗

Sorry – rubbish. Some pubs (many? a majority? Not sure) have apps, some require payment by card, some take cash. If this were an enormous exercise in registering where you’ve been, you naughty boy, there would be no inconsistency and instructions to the pub would have been clearer. Or maybe they’re just trying to herd all of the dissenters into certain pubs so they can swoop in and kill us indiscriminately?

43308 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 1, #625 of 1372 🔗

The idea of being tracked by card payment is possible as said to be happening by Vernon Coleman yesterday. As people have said GDPR seems an issue.

Your bank knows your spendings movements better than you.

Track apps – symptom tracking

The UKC full report here:
4.50 mins in Project Oasis. Apps feeding into Jhub (army) before going anonymously to NHSx.

Symptom tracking not contact tracking – my mistake above – I conflated track and trace card payments, symptom tracking Jhub (army) NHSx.

43315 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 1, #626 of 1372 🔗

It’s perfectly possible. Dead easy. Your bank (or credit card provider) knows exactly where you’ve been. They’re just jot allowed to tell the government

43335 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 1, #627 of 1372 🔗

They can tell the police, if you are suspected of a crime.. If breaking a lockdown or regulation becomes a criminal offence, see how fast the government will act to get access to people’s bank and credit card details..

43680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, #628 of 1372 🔗

The police is not the government.

43077 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 19, #629 of 1372 🔗

Just been to view a house. Thankfully no requirement for me to muzzle-up or wear gloves but both the vendor and estate agent togged-up to the eye balls in haz-mat gear. And even though I touched nothing in the house (oh, I opened the bathroom door, but used my sleeve to cover my disease-ridden revolting hand), they insisted they would have to go round with wipes after I’d left … Crazy!

43184 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 4, #630 of 1372 🔗

I’m surprised they don’t fumigate the place!

43370 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, #631 of 1372 🔗

Was that to reassure the person coming an hour after you?

43457 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheezilla, #632 of 1372 🔗

God knows. It wasn’t exactly the, how to put this, cleanest of houses anyway …

43081 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #633 of 1372 🔗

Got this message from a sceptic friend of mine:

The government sent me documents asking to be in a study for covid chosen at random they are in the shredder “

Anyone else in sceptic land receiving requests like these?

43097 ▶▶ John P, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #634 of 1372 🔗

My sister has been tested as part of a study, I think. She was negative.

43127 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to John P, #635 of 1372 🔗

A work colleague of mine had a test via some Oxford University study, she was negative.

43262 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, #636 of 1372 🔗

I’m in one for UK BioBank, but I’ve been involved with them for a long, long time.

43113 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 12, #637 of 1372 🔗

It will be interesting to hear from contributors in Scotland who venture into shops how much compliance is being observed re masks from Friday. I’m going to avoid the shops after Thursday until as late as possible next week. Will be buying an inhaler at Boots on Thursday as a prop to my asthma exemption which I will be claiming next week. Hope there are inhalers left to buy.

43118 ▶▶ John P, replying to Gillian, 1, #638 of 1372 🔗

Why wait until Thursday?

43129 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Gillian, #639 of 1372 🔗

Canyou buy an inhaler without a prescription? I googled that sometime ago but without any luck

43183 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to arfurmo, 2, #640 of 1372 🔗

I found some inhaler cases on EBay that I shall present if challenged. I doubt anyone will want proof it is real.

43320 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to arfurmo, #641 of 1372 🔗

Harder than it used to be, but last I checked you can go through a laborious online form with Superdrug and do it. I _do_ have a prescription but can’t be bothered to deal with my GP surgery, and got inhalers through Superdrug in March without having to provide any evidence.

I would say that you’re not supposed to be buying them without having had any kind of medical check that you need them.

43333 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to arfurmo, 1, #642 of 1372 🔗

If you have an asthmatic friend, you could maybe get a used-up one, ie one they are just going to bin otherwise?

43134 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Gillian, 8, #643 of 1372 🔗

I won’t be surprised if they remove the requirement for mask wearing within a couple of weeks due to low prevalance of the virus within the community.

It will be like stores increasing the price of goods right before dropping them again to make it seem like a sale.

43142 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #644 of 1372 🔗

I asked one of the wonderful ladies in my local bakery how she felt about having to wear a mask as of this week. The bakery has been open 7 days a week throughout this fucking lockdown and has been on of the few bastions of the old normal. She said “I’m just wondering why we’ve got to do it now after all this time.”

43367 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #645 of 1372 🔗

Let’s hope you’re right!

43141 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to Gillian, 8, #646 of 1372 🔗

We’ve ordered lanyards hooked to a small sign that reads “Not all disabilities are visible”, or suchlike, which we’ll be wearing instead of masks.

43197 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gillian, 3, #647 of 1372 🔗

Mr Bart and I printed off an exemption card from gov.uk and managed to find some lanyards lying around the house to use.

43213 ▶▶ Brubek, replying to Gillian, #648 of 1372 🔗

Avoid wasting money, just say you have a medical condition. If they ask for more (and they shouldn’t), say wearing a face covering would cause you severe distress to the point of having a panick attack.

43115 John P, replying to John P, 25, #649 of 1372 🔗

It is a disappointing first attempt for Simon Dolan’s team in attempting to restore Britain to democratic freedom, but the result was perhaps only to be expected. I hope that Simon will appeal.

I upset a number of people here this morning by pouring cold water on someone’s report of a drunken evening out on Saturday.

It’s the oldest trick in the authoritarian’s book!

Take away people’s rights and freedoms and then show the sheeple how wonderful and generous you are by pretending to give back some of what was never yours to take in the first place!

Are you grateful to Mr Hancock for letting you go out to play? Is he your dad?

43123 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, 17, #650 of 1372 🔗

You’re absolutely right that we shouldn’t be gratfeul being allowed out for a drink. My view is that if we don’t get on with it we’ll never get back to normal.
I think the leadership is frightened to switch off lockdown incase the mythical second wave materialises which would be a political nightmare for them – but I don’t think anyones going to try and stop people getting back to normal of their own accord.
I appreciate that the bastards have shit on Leicester which adds insult.

43143 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Major Panic, 9, #651 of 1372 🔗

Yes they are trying to stop people get back to normal of their own accord hence the stupid regulations if you go out, hence the increase in muzzling in Scotland (about to be mimicked here in England I fear). The only leverage I’m afraid we have is to not accept their ‘generous’ tit-bits (as John says, giving back of some what they had no right to take) and stand firm until they buckle or go under. Or patronise to the hilt places that ignore the rules. Otherwise, again as John says, we’ve fallen for the oldest authoritarian trick and played right into their hands.

43144 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bella, 1, #652 of 1372 🔗

on the other hand – is anyone going to notice your martyrdom – but good luck

43389 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Major Panic, #653 of 1372 🔗

No, no-one’s going to notice my martyrdom but if a thousand other people in my manor took the same stance they might. Whereas your strategy seems to accept the scraps thrown at you and be grateful despite what you say about not being grateful you’ll still accept the scraps.

43239 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, 2, #654 of 1372 🔗

It would be suicide for them to issue masking in England. Let them get on and do it! The more stupidity they put out and people disregard the better. Following the american lead is hard for them to do at this stage. Sturgeon can because fhe Scottish character is more sympathetic to her. Calderwood is forgotten unlike mr eye test weasel guy.

43288 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Bella, 3, #655 of 1372 🔗

You hate us and commas with equal passion, don’t you?

43305 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #656 of 1372 🔗

Argh, let the poor little boy have his bit of fun, before Nursey comes to change his nappy and put him back in his cot.

43331 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bella, 3, #657 of 1372 🔗

Grant – read the link I posted about a nearly 1,500% increase in critical head up injury admissions in Great Ormond Street Hospital admissions in April and then come back here and tell me you think lockdown was a good idea.

Or better still, come down to London and say it to my face.

You cretin.

43392 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to matt, #658 of 1372 🔗

“cretin”, interesting word. Used to mean those with an iodine deficiency, before folks started to notice that those with such a deficiency had neurological troubles, and hence “cretin” came to refer to stupidity. I couldn’t find anything saying whether it has happened, but in some regions of the world (particularly bits of India) people (particularly children) are reliant on specially imported iodised salt, to prevent such deficiencies and avoid cretinism. If lockdown ahs disrupted such salt supplies then I wonder if lockdown will cause cretinism to re-emerge?

43157 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Major Panic, 11, #659 of 1372 🔗

I think it’s at least plausible that they are pretty sure there won’t be a second wave, and the nonsense measures being brought in are political theatre to cover up the initial mistake, or make fearful people feel safer, or simply to exercise power for its own sake.

43159 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Julian, 8, #660 of 1372 🔗

all day long – its all political – i still think the grinning cretin still thinks he’s doing a great job

43230 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, 1, #661 of 1372 🔗

Which one are you referring to? There are a number of them.

43244 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #662 of 1372 🔗

take you’re pick

43276 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 5, #663 of 1372 🔗

Two scenarios: 1. We know mask-wearing has a negative effect on the wearer’s immune system – are they trying to manufacture a second wave by reducing people’s immunity? And/or 2. There is a video of Gates saying people *will* take the threat seriously ‘next time’, and Amazing Polly on youtube (and others) have other evidence of a planned second virus… It would seem that somehow or other they will see to it that there *is* a second wave or something that they can call one…

43356 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #664 of 1372 🔗

That’s been my fear.

43396 ▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Julian, #665 of 1372 🔗

If there was going to be a second wave we’d probably have seen signs of it by now, the fact that with so many perfect opportunities (protests, beaches, raves, shopping…) to resume spread across the UK since the infection peak the virus hasn’t had anything but local upspikes suggests it isn’t coming back, unless there is a strong seasonal effect to it.

And in the fairly unlikely event that there is a second wave its as likely to be less severe as worse. Despite all shouting “this is not a flu” second-waveists all point to the spanish flu pandemic, but plenty of other pandemics (repiratory ones too) have had second waves which were minor. I spoke recently to someone who was “lockdown-neutral”, not a sceptic like us but recognising it hadn’t been ideal, hse was quite interested when I reminded her that there were pandemics which gave second waves other than spanish flu and that many were lesser affairs than wave one.

43175 ▶▶ IanE, replying to John P, 2, #666 of 1372 🔗

Has something been decided? I couldn’t find anything via Google.

Ah just found it on sky.com

If anyone interested : https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-businessman-loses-legal-fight-over-draconian-lockdown-12022441

43359 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 1, #667 of 1372 🔗

The report airs words and phrases that the public need to be considering:
Draconian lockdown with no Parliamentary scrutiny; …. forcing people to stay at home, and forcing businesses to close, they are, we believe, in contravention of basic Human Rights.

So yes, disappointing outcome today but hopefully the publicity will start to sow a few seeds of doubt in some sheep’s minds.

43177 ▶▶ James007, replying to John P, 12, #668 of 1372 🔗

I am very depressed about Simon Dolan’s JR. Appaling to see is how easily the arguments were dismissed.
It’s ok to keep families apart because a lot of people have broadband. It’s ok to isolate children and deprive them of schooling because after all, they get sent worksheets to do at home. Also some children have access to laptops, so not getting any social stimulation is ok. Actually not everyone has access to broadband, and even if they did it hardly makes up for what has been taken from us.
They have no clue what life is like for the less privilaged. I am angry but mainly depressed.

43178 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to James007, 1, #669 of 1372 🔗

white wash – asking for appeal – its a time spinner

43225 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to James007, 3, #670 of 1372 🔗

Out of interest, anyone seen any stats regarding the number of suicides since the lockdown started and how this compares to ‘normal’ ?

43398 ▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Carrie, #671 of 1372 🔗

ONS doesn’t do stats of death by causes, such as suicide, until the end of the year. That’ll be when we get to see the truth coming out, if the politicians don’t find a new dead cat to slam down to cover this truth.

43233 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to James007, 2, #672 of 1372 🔗

Given how many of our politicians have turned into little gauleiters, perhaps we shouldn’t be too surprised that inside each of our judges, there’s a Roland Freisler itching to get out.

43311 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #673 of 1372 🔗

True. Pity Freisler got bombed, really, I,p’d have liked to think of him being hanged.
And not only him…

43200 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 8, #674 of 1372 🔗

James Delingpole’s article on this is brilliant: ‘The political and administrative Establishment, in other words, has taken advantage of the lockdown to turn Britain into the equivalent of a gigantic prep school where the entire population are treated like recalcitrant children.
Instead of being the God-given right of every freeborn Englishman — as it has been since forever — suddenly a simple act like going to the pub for a pint is something you can only do with the government’s permission; and is, furthermore, a privilege that can be taken away at a moment’s notice.’

43203 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, 1, #675 of 1372 🔗

you are right – but not lets forget that the public demanded a lockdown – and many still do – we got what we wished for… isn’t that democracy?

43218 ▶▶▶▶ Stephen McMurray, replying to Major Panic, 13, #676 of 1372 🔗

Not sure that’s true. We were never asked if we wanted a lockdown and judging by the way people are crowding into the streets of Belfast and ignoring social distancing and only about 1% wearing masks I think their surveys are fake news. Also bear in mind we were lied to on a massive scale using project fear. If people had have been told the truth they would have told the government to shove their lockdown.

43223 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 7, #677 of 1372 🔗

We were missold the lockdown – it was supposed to be for 3 weeks, not 3+ months, and it was to protect the NHS when in reality they never exceeded the number of intensive care beds needed and the Nightingale hospitals were not used. Once locked down, the government moved the goalposts..

If people had known at the beginning that this would happen, I’m not sure they would have consented..

43250 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #678 of 1372 🔗

That.. is behaviour science in action. You can call it dribbling if you like. Look back… the elderly were gone for first, only them to lockdown. Then switcheroo! all to lockdown for three weeks. This is how you manage a population. Feed in concern then alarm. Get them to concede to your rule without rebellion. It was the plan to lock us all up from the start.

King JohnIi was doing these same gags back in Wat Tylers day. This is all done before.

43363 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #679 of 1372 🔗

I as just talking about that with the cashier in Aldi’s tonight, how 3 weeks became 6 months.

43258 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, 1, #680 of 1372 🔗

The public “demanded a lockdown” after weeks of softening up and panic-mongering by the MSM. And I’m still unsure how many people were actually demanding this lockdown compared to the number prepared, at least initially, to go along with it.

43265 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #681 of 1372 🔗

Tacitly demanding by being silent perhaps.

In contradiction to being silent and therefore being racist as one racing car driver recently said, the one who isnt’t Aryton Senna.

43401 ▶▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Major Panic, #682 of 1372 🔗

Regrettably, yes it is democracy, democracy isn’t what we need though. What we need is proper libertarianism, a recognition that the right to vote and pass laws has limits beyond which there are no legitimate or acceptable excuses for intrusion itno private lives.

43216 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to John P, 1, #683 of 1372 🔗

John. I got drunk on Sunday, not Saturday. Today as well as it goes. Will do another report tomorrow, maybe 🍻

43224 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to John P, 5, #684 of 1372 🔗
43243 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #685 of 1372 🔗

Depressing if true..

43324 ▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 4, #686 of 1372 🔗

No, John, but “nobody is allowed to have fun until everyone’s allowed to have fun the way I want them to” is exactly the kind of thinking that got us here in the first place.

I agree with you in principle, but there’s no reason why people shouldn’t enjoy what is allowed to them. And don’t confuse taking advantage of the scraps we’re given for gratitude for the scraps we’re given.

I know you’re in Leicester and so even further back than the rest of us, but don’t pour cold water on people being cheerful just because you’re miserable.

43402 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to matt, 1, #687 of 1372 🔗

There is a reason Matt. It’s called collective action and the more people act collectively the more pressure is applied to lifting restrictions. Granted through the conduit of the businesses that are suffering who will have to lean on the regulators and you might argue that’s unfair on the businesses. Valid argument. But to accept the scraps that are thrown (or taking advantage of rather than be grateful for as you express it) runs the risk that it’ll be scraps from hereon and the civil liberties we had will never be returned: because we’re still taking advantage of the scraps.

43133 Victoria, 7, #688 of 1372 🔗

‘We are not guinea pigs,’ say South African anti-vaccine protesters “Vaccine trial that exploit black lives”


43148 Tony Rattray, replying to Tony Rattray, 6, #689 of 1372 🔗



BBC journalism at its very finest!

This article replaced one critically reporting on the 10,000+ excess deaths in care homes not covid related in the last 6 months. Who cares, they didn’t work for the NHS!

If anyone wears one as of thursday in scotland, I will buy them a pint! You can get one on ebay for £20.

43354 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tony Rattray, #690 of 1372 🔗

Plague is one of the deadliest diseases in human history – but it can now be easily treated with antibiotics.

No longer very deadly then!
Are they running out of covid stories to scare us with?

43480 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #691 of 1372 🔗

It facilitates a comparison with Oh-so-deadly Covid, which is a virus and can’t be treated with antibiotics.

43168 annie, replying to annie, 20, #692 of 1372 🔗

Had my first Abnormal riding lesson this morning.
Actually it was pretty normal.
BUT— so sad about my instructor. She is in her mid thirties and as fit as a fiddle. Rides in point-to-points, hunts, can calm hysterical horses and hysterical riders, never panics, brave as a lion, cool as a cucumber.
And she’d coned herself off in a corner of the school to ensure she ‘stayed healthy’.
What is it about this terror porn that fries the brains of people like that?
At least she wasn’t wearing a mask. Horse would have had a fit, she’s accustomed to human beings.
Hopefully instructor will come round soon.
Horse was not sanitised. Think that was a myth. Phew!

43172 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to annie, 1, #693 of 1372 🔗

Hi Annie, i used to hunt with a cheshire drag hunt (I know not a real hunt – went with some local girls) but it was all about popping heges for me. I’ve even been a runner for the vale royal blood hounds.
I retired my horse, (Flash – jump anything I pointed him at) over 10 years ago to my sisters yard in scotland to a lady who wanted a hack and a horse to spoil and pamper.
Do you hunt?

43298 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, 1, #694 of 1372 🔗

Am trying to find the courage to try it! I think my horse would love it. 🐎
I’ve nothing against foxes, mind. Drag hunting is fine by me.

43205 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to annie, 9, #695 of 1372 🔗

The vast majority of the horsey folk I know have all shrugged off the ‘threat’ of the virus and have carried on as normal throughout. I had cause to go to a yard I’ve never visited before, last week, shook hands with everyone and was invited to sit in the comfy seats to watch some of the horses being schooled, with everyone else. No one bothering with social distancing.

The trainer who comes to us had to be persuaded, once the British Horse Society ‘allowed’ it’s instructors to teach again, to come to us because she’s in England and we’re in Wales. I had to point out that she was travelling for work and that has always been allowed. 5 mile travel limits do not apply.

There have been a few exceptions – the corona uber alles – who refused to ride at all for the last three months because of not wanting to put extra pressure on the NHS. Even when it was pointed out that A&E’s were deserted it made no difference. But they are the definite minority round here.

43215 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to The Spingler, 8, #696 of 1372 🔗

the horse frternity are made of tougher stuff, Annies proof of that

43302 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, 2, #697 of 1372 🔗

Been riding for weeks.Hacking out now. Nobody seems to mind. If I think somebody might mind, I just don’t tell them.
And I don’t believe for a moment that our leading show jumpers are doing no jumping, however much some of them say so.

43314 ▶▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to annie, 2, #698 of 1372 🔗

All the pros carried on riding, I don’t know any of them who stopped, though some stopped posting about it on their social media. The racing yards carried on training – Newmarket crammed with horses on the gallops as per usual.

43219 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 6, #699 of 1372 🔗

I can just see the late great Thelwell doing a cartoon of somebody trying to sanitise a horse. Sometimes grooming can be a problem.

43285 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to annie, 4, #700 of 1372 🔗

It’s because they’ve never questioned the MSM and so they trust the incessant stories that there have apparently been on Sky and the BBC etc about the virus, healthy people getting sick etc. They never see any other information. It’s not a lack of courage, but a rational response to the facts as they believe them to be. I have the same problem with friends. Anything I tell them just gets dismissed as conspiracy thinking or the equivalent. I’m not sure what to show tham to get them to think.

43345 ▶▶ Paul, replying to annie, 2, #701 of 1372 🔗

We had to call the vet out to our horse yesterday,he was very lame,after seeing the over the top PPE and restrictions at the small animal surgery we use we expected the equine vet to turn up in a Haz-mat suit !,what a relief when the pleasant young woman vet arrived not even sporting a muzzle and completely unafraid to stand shoulder to shoulder with us.
For the horsey people on here,our horse is a lot better,a painkilling/anti-inflammatory injection and a course of Equipalazone to take,oh,and another big bill to come !.

43479 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Paul, #702 of 1372 🔗

Yes, I think the bills hurt us more than most things hurt the horse!

43176 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 30, #703 of 1372 🔗

I am not surprised Simon Dolan lost his case. If the judge had found in Simon’s favour and the government would have been found to have acted illegally the number of lawsuits from people whose relatives died in care homes and businesses who lost everything would have bankrupt the government. In any case, the judiciary don’t work for justice and the people as was clear when they ruled Boris’s prorogation of parliament was illegal in spite of being a normal parliamentary procedure used for a lesser time period than some of the ones previously enacted. The ruling was simply designed to hinder Brexit. Amazing,though, how a normal act of parliament is illegal and the complete eradication of human rights is considered legal.

Does anyone know the cost of flights to North Korea, I think I might move there for a bit more freedom.

R.I.P democracy and freedom.

43179 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Stephen McMurray, 6, #704 of 1372 🔗

I’m not giving up on our shower of shite just yet

43180 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Stephen McMurray, 4, #705 of 1372 🔗

Quite – as I noted previously, the only time judges rule against the government is when it tries to do something Brexity. 36 years late, but they finally got us here!

43186 ▶▶ gina, replying to Stephen McMurray, 10, #706 of 1372 🔗

I am also totally gutted and wondering where I might flee to. Weird irony, my family returned from Canada at the outbreak of ww2 so they could join the fight for freedom. Hah!

43228 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to gina, #707 of 1372 🔗

Costa Rica top of my list

43304 ▶▶▶▶ gina, replying to Sarigan, #708 of 1372 🔗

I had a pash to relocate there a few years ago – the bugs – winged,creeping and crawling varieties…put the dampers on it for me though.But lots going for it, I agree

43383 ▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Stephen McMurray, #709 of 1372 🔗

I was on the remainer side in autumn and quite glad to hear Lady Hale’s judgement then, but how can a judicial system manage to recognise that an executive stopping parliament from meeting is wrong, but then fail to see any wrong in an executive stopping EVERYONE form meeting? If judges wish to stand up for the idea of letting MPs, supposedly representatives of the people, hold the government to account why aren’t they keen on letting the people cut out the middle, 600 or so, men and directly stop the government inturding on our lives?

43198 Richard, #710 of 1372 🔗

Update from peoples republic of Hackney – apparently it is impossible for either statues or trees in London Fields to transmit it to all the kids that have been climbing them for weeks but the playground climbing frame is a “vector” and therefore needs to be guarded all day by two council operatives – admittedly fairly sheepishly.. Bonkers

43201 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #711 of 1372 🔗


Is it some kind of joke that “sanity check” is on the list?!

43280 ▶▶ Bella, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #712 of 1372 🔗

I think they meant sanitary check because all the toilets are closed.

43339 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #713 of 1372 🔗

Has someone been reading the back of 1984?

43429 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, #714 of 1372 🔗

I’ve seen that Sky Sports presenters have been given a list too. They can no longer describe black player as physical! Fancy not being able to describe an athlete as physical.

43478 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #715 of 1372 🔗

Simple. You describe black athletes as mental.

43208 IanE, replying to IanE, 3, #716 of 1372 🔗

Maybe not directly covid-related, but, Great Scott, this government is even further Left than I realised! Just what is to be left of our formerly Great country? Just take a look at the following:

“Royal Marines and 20,000 troops cut to make way for space and cyber war in leaked spending review plans”.

43209 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to IanE, 4, #717 of 1372 🔗

I’m not sure they can find youths tough enough to make Royal Marines nowadays

43220 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to IanE, 1, #718 of 1372 🔗

So that we ‘have to’ sign up to the EU defence force despite Brexit….???

43231 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #719 of 1372 🔗

Exactly right.

43222 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to IanE, 1, #720 of 1372 🔗

I don’t think it’s a left/right thing, technology is taking over every aspect of life including in defence/war. You can more easily cripple a country by cutting it’s internet than by invading with a physical army.

43238 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to The Spingler, 9, #721 of 1372 🔗

Seems its even easier than that – release a virus on a nation with a government of spineless chancers who do the work for you?

43266 ▶▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #722 of 1372 🔗

The two work together. Release the virus so the government locks the people up in their homes and makes them totally dependent on technology. Then cut off the internet.

43267 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to The Spingler, 2, #723 of 1372 🔗

“You can more easily cripple a country by cutting it’s internet.”

Are you sure about that? What a stupid thing to suggest. How are you going to do that? Come on. You’re the expert.

Have you been reading the Guardian or something?

This sort of nonsense is heavily promoted by the same sort of people that brought you coronavirus fear porn.

43309 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to John P, #724 of 1372 🔗

Someone I’m very close to who works on defense projects used to work almost exclusively on radar software but in the last couple of years moved all his work into cyber warfare software. It’s the future. Flesh and blood soldiers are the past

43337 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to The Spingler, #725 of 1372 🔗

Makes sense!

43426 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, #726 of 1372 🔗

Easily you think how all transactions are done these days. How would ATMs work, anything card or contactless wouldn’t work, how would you pay for goods as cards won’t work and people wouldn’t be able to get cash quick enough.

This actually happened in the Ukraine. Look into “not petya” to see what happened during this. This basically brought Maersk and shipping globally to a standstill.

Another good one to look at is the attack on Saudi Aramco (or Aramco as it’s known now) by the Iranians, which had the possibility to affect every country in the world.

Darknet Diaries podcast is excellent if you’re interest in the world of cyberattacks.

43282 ▶▶ guy153, replying to IanE, 5, #727 of 1372 🔗

TBH a small army and a small police force are things that cause me to sleep easier at night these days.

43381 ▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to guy153, #728 of 1372 🔗

Quite agreed, though I’d like a bit more investment in the air force and navy. Unlike cops, soldiers, psyoperatives and spies; airforcemen and sailors aren’t much use for oppressing your own people internally, but they’re great for taking the fight abroad to give Xi Jinping or Valdimir Putin a dose of well deserved punishment. if only we had either force effective enough to do that.

43434 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, #729 of 1372 🔗

A lot of people mentioning malware and viruses to attack infrastructure. As a cyber professional to break into a company this is rarely needed as the easiest ways are to trick people with either a phonecall or a phishing email who will provide you with credentiaks, it’s all very simple.

I have tested a lot of infrastructures and i’d say that over half of those I’ve tested, that I have gained control over their IT systems in less than an hour without doing anything complex just basic reconnaissance.

43214 Adrian Dalton, #730 of 1372 🔗

I had a test for the virus on Saturday. It made me wonder about accuracy of information. I went with my wife and 17 year old son to get it done.

You are supposed to administer the test yourself but for reasons with which I shall not bore you my son and I had it done for us. (It was to do with difficulties in communicating through a closed car window in a massively high wind with test personnel attired in outfits resembling astronauts’ clothing).

A swab is shoved down your throat. Then up your nose. For 15 seconds. 15 seconds! If you think this is no big deal give it a try.

Anyway as the test went on I was gagging retching whimpering. This caused much hilarity on the part of my wife who is a doctor (I am not medical) and my son.

Who is 17 as I say. So that’s his excuse for crass insensitivity. (Don’t know what hers is).

Son went next. Much gagging retching whimpering from him. I maintained a dignified silence though I felt like upbraiding him for his callous attitude to my own torment.

More hilarity from the spouse though. Maternal instinct or what?

Then she did her own test and was able to keep it together but I could tell she was finding it no picnic no walk in the park.

The thing is: a lot of these tests get sent out in the post. They are not done at an enormous test centre as were ours.

They are sent out with instructions which you have to read understand and follow properly. Quite a big ask in my humble opinion.

And if you get it wrong you get – presumably – either a failed test result or a false negative result.

It’s not just me who is a wimp. I should imagine loads of people would find this test hard to self-administer. And therefore make a mess of it.

So – with this as much else about the panicdemic one has to ask: are the Government coronavirus test result numbers accurate?

Right up your nose. 15 seconds. 3 words: hor -rif -fic.

For what vanishingly little it may be worth we all tested negative. So that is super-excellent yes? Until somebody with the virus coughs on me tomorrow and I get it then.

Er… like: even if the stats resulting from the tests were accurate what would be the point like?

Cheers Adrian

43221 John Jones, #731 of 1372 🔗

Some of the most withering lockdown scepticism I have heard on this highly entertaining podcast with Jeffrey Tucker


43232 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 24, #732 of 1372 🔗

It is mandatory from the end of the week to wear masks on public transport in Northern Ireland. However, all you have to say if you don’t wear one is ‘I’m exempt.’ You do not need to provide any evidence. What is really interesting though is this quote form the legislation

“Although face coverings may not prevent you from becoming infected with the virus, they help prevent people who don’t know they have the virus spreading it to others.”

So they even admit masks do not protect their wearers from getting infected but may help prevent others from getting infected. What weird witchcraft is that? Are viral particles not the same size after their exhaled as they are when they are inhaled or are they somehow mutated into into something different when we breathe. They will pass through the mask when we breathe out just like they will when we breathe in. Therefore, they are completely useless

This has simply been done to be seen to be doing something, anything, no matter how ludicrous and unscientific. It is also done to appease those the scaredy cats. So let’s write new laws and impinge on everyone’s freedoms to make some people with irrational fears feel better. What a way to run a country!

43236 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Stephen McMurray, 7, #733 of 1372 🔗

bla bla bla , power to the people, just don’t wear the fcuking things

43246 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Stephen McMurray, 7, #734 of 1372 🔗

I think the theory is, if you’re infected but don’t know it and have no symptoms, you might cough or sneeze anyway (hayfever, tickle in the throat etc), and it will prevent the droplet spray from infecting others. Nothing that using a handkerchief couldn’t do just as well!

The UK govt quite openly admit that masks don’t really do much to protect the wearer, but may have a small/weak effect on preventing transmission from an infected person. Hardly enough to justify it being compulsory, especially at this late stage in the game.

43264 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #735 of 1372 🔗

There was a report (now apparently suppressed) saying that asymptomatic people very rarely spread the virus.

I’m not sure what that is based on, but when have we ever thought we might get a virus from someone who is apparently healthy?

43273 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to John P, 3, #736 of 1372 🔗

They had a theory and when the real life data didn’t fit they just made something up to explain it.

43476 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, #737 of 1372 🔗

Man, the only people still living real life are us sceptics.

43281 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to John P, 3, #738 of 1372 🔗

It was the case of the Chinese woman, very early on, who was thought to have passed on the virus to people while asymptomatic. A very major concern at that point. However, a subsequent scientific paper showed that her circumstances were not as initially reported, and so the story was discredited. I don’t have the link, I’m afraid. So there’s actually no evidence that it can be spread by someone with no symptoms. So it’s just like anything else, therefore.

43306 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to John P, 2, #739 of 1372 🔗

In any event if you’re not sick then you’re not as likely to cough or sneeze which will propel droplets further and faster than just speaking.

43382 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to John P, #740 of 1372 🔗

Yes, in June the WHO stated clearly that asymptomatic transmission appeared to be very rare, but when the media reported it they claimed that they didn’t really mean it… All very odd.

I’ve never heard of asymptomatic viral spread before. Presymptomatic yes, but I just can’t see how catching it from someone with no symptoms and who never develops symptoms (are they even really infected if that is the case?) can be possible, unless you tend to get very intimate with strangers whilst shopping or sitting on a train…

43453 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #741 of 1372 🔗

Handy logic. If the mask was to protect the wearer then it could be a free choice – take responsibilty for yourself. But no! The witchcraft calls for you to wear a mask to protect others. And since that’s not about responsibility for yourself the totalitarians who make up the problem step in with the solution.

43274 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Stephen McMurray, 7, #742 of 1372 🔗

No, it’s not to appease people who are scared.They don’t care. It is a symbol of oppression and subjugation. It is clearly unscientific so it’s political.

43234 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 10, #743 of 1372 🔗

We have just been threatened by China, ‘you will face the consequence’….
We need to snap out of our covid transe and re engage with the world

43270 ▶▶ John P, replying to Major Panic, 1, #744 of 1372 🔗


43254 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #745 of 1372 🔗

I agree with the Hitchens article Toby referenced. “It scares me stiff” too Peter!

Whilst I want to fight and rant, I’m going to experiment with another approach. And that is not to judge and to try to encourage others to question and open up their questioning capability.

We are already skeptical believers, in the minority. Everyone else is not. So we need to think of positive action and i fear fighting isn’t it. Sadly Simon Dolan courageous fight has made this even more true for me.

43259 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Country Mumkin, 18, #746 of 1372 🔗

I know a lot of people have said to me that he shouldnt have bothered because he was bound to lose. But that’s not the attitude we should take. Of course he should have fought; are we all expected to sit back and say oh dear we can never win? I supported his cause, I’m glad that he took up the fight.

43268 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to thedarkhorse, 8, #747 of 1372 🔗

Of course, his challenge can’t be changed, it was essential. There has been no failure here.

43287 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #748 of 1372 🔗

I’m not suggesting he shouldn’t have tried. I supported his campaign too.

I’m trying to convey that I’m experimenting with another approach. And that is not one that polarises, but seeks to find empathy whilst encouraging those that have relied on MSM for their info, to explore other perspectives.

43297 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Country Mumkin, 6, #749 of 1372 🔗

I’m feeling we need to somehow gently point out the various illogicalities in the rules, in a non-confrontational way… eg by asking questions – ‘What is it about BBC employees that make them immune to the virus?’ (because the coronavirus law specifically exempts BBC employees from the lockdown)
Or ‘why is it that it is safe for 30 people of all ages to meet at your home, but not for 30 pupils to sit in a classroom?’
Maybe we should make some posters? Annie can put them up in place of the rules ones she takes down!!! Or flyers?

43348 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Carrie, 6, #750 of 1372 🔗

Or are 30 people immune but 31 are not?
Why have the police been seen regularly without masks and not maintaining social distancing from each other or the public?
Why have shop checkout staff not been dropping like flies from CV19.

And I’m not saying CV19 is not a particularly nasty and lethal virus for those who are vulnerable, but it’s not the contagion everyone feared.
It actually still doesn’t make sense overall.

43351 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lms23, 2, #751 of 1372 🔗

All good questions because there’s a lot of logical inconsistencies. Some people I know keep on going on and on about infections and safety but what about VE Day, bank holidays, BLM protests? Why have there not been any spikes?.

43387 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #752 of 1372 🔗

Exactly… How does the virus know not to infect people on BLM protests?

43388 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 3, #753 of 1372 🔗

Good question. The virus must be super aware of big events.

Not to mention, does the virus seriously travel only one way? How do they keep time?

43408 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #754 of 1372 🔗

Here’s another one, courtesy of the Guardian : ‘Hollywood stars to be exempt from UK’s coronavirus quarantine rules Mission Impossible’s Tom Cruise among key personnel who can resume filming as part of a drive to kickstart film production in the UK’
No logic – how come Hollywood actors are immune to the virus?

43492 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 1, #755 of 1372 🔗

Another good question. Plus what about politicians and royals?

43384 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Lms23, 3, #756 of 1372 🔗

In my experience this doesn’t wash. For example: said to the doorman of the hostelry I went to on Saturday (someone I knew) who wanted to take my temperature and was in a mask ‘why the draconian measures now when I was drinking here the last day before lockdown when virus was at its peak and no-one was wearing masks or doing any other bulshit?’ His reply: ‘The virus is more dangerous now.’ Duh. Which is why lockdown has been partially lifted. You can’t argue with stupid. (And, no, I didn’t go in.)

43386 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, 4, #757 of 1372 🔗

Good examples! Can the virus count people?!
Why are politicians not masked? (When interviewed, there are always other people around, plus camera crew, so they are not alone in the room..)
Why have no schoolchildren in Sweden died, while schools have remained open? Are Swedish children super-immune compared to British kids, and if so, why?

43400 ▶▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Carrie, 4, #758 of 1372 🔗

Totally agree about the non-confrontational.

Here is another idea to add to yours about posters and pointing out illogicalities.

If we can each gently coach 2 friends who hold fearful views, to encourage them to question what they are hearing, then see if we can get them to work with others etc.

It’s like a positive spin on the Reproduction Rate.

43475 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 1, #759 of 1372 🔗

Good idea.

43474 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to thedarkhorse, #760 of 1372 🔗

Plenty of people after Dunkirk said the war was lost and it was time to give up. Bringing in Fascist Britain in 1940 instead of 2020.

43269 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #761 of 1372 🔗

At last Simon Dolan made the MSM – DailyMail headline ” Aviation tycoon worth £200m loses High Court bid to get Government’s ‘sweeping’ lockdown rules overturned after crowdfunding more than £200,00 to fight case”

43277 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Victoria, 7, #762 of 1372 🔗

no such thing as losing in this game

43310 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, 4, #763 of 1372 🔗

Legal rulings often close certain doors, and open others you hadn’t even thought about.

43313 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #764 of 1372 🔗

Any examples, Nick? Am interested..
Meanwhile, this is interesting: https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1280191211110793216 It doesn’t rain but pour for Huawei… There’s a report floating around partly written by former UK spy and Trump bête noire Christopher Steele’s firm that makes some eye popping claims about a sophisticated dark web operation to manipulate serving Peers & MPs for last 3 years…’

43326 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 9, #765 of 1372 🔗

Keeping it with Dolan’s case, we’ve learned that the government acted within the law. Which means that the Law doesn’t recognise civil liberties or even freedoms from the Magna Carta, through the Bill of Rights and to the Human Rights Act.

There is a clash here. And when different Acts collide, there is room to get a ruling. Which has priority – the most modern Act or the one with the longest provenance?

43329 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #766 of 1372 🔗

Good point. The case being brought by Christian Concern regarding the closure of churches, specifically invokes the Magna Carta, so it will be interesting to see what the judge says there..

43464 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Carrie, 1, #767 of 1372 🔗

It also confirms that Britain’s Human Rights Act 1998 needs serious revision.

No amendment covering lockdowns…..no votes…..

The eu also must revise the ECHR.

Chances of that happening?

That would be zero.

43346 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Major Panic, 1, #768 of 1372 🔗

Don’t you mean, no such thing as winning?

43294 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 4, #770 of 1372 🔗

Interesting. The Church itself just rushed to ban services without even a whimper of protest. And is still banning them.

43299 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 8, #771 of 1372 🔗

The Church of England maybe, but other churches are not happy and are bringing a court case about the closure, invoking the Magna Carta: https://christianconcern.com/ccpressreleases/christian-leaders-invoke-magna-carta-and-sue-the-government-over-church-lockdown/?fbclid=IwAR3ApKED1Sr2Dzsy-A5sct4fDUkfZkNSendukzmEeTGaTClaNat0yIUI9YQ

43473 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 2, #772 of 1372 🔗

I can feel a conversion coming on. Particularly as our wanking bishop has imposed such a slew of cretinous rules on churches that want to open that none of them has, because they’d need an army of home-made gestapo.

43317 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #773 of 1372 🔗

That’s quite an encouraging report – for the Grad!

43291 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Victoria, 5, #774 of 1372 🔗

Sad though this headline is, it may get others to explore and research what he was doing and support for the appeal…

43293 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Victoria, 5, #775 of 1372 🔗

I said to the wife that he would probably be mentioned in the papers, now…

43368 ▶▶ Dinger, replying to Victoria, 1, #776 of 1372 🔗

Took them f*ck*ng long enough to report it, scaremongering b*st*rds

43272 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 20, #777 of 1372 🔗

we should not hide away in some doomed underground movement – get out there and be normal – the sheep will follow

43332 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Major Panic, 5, #778 of 1372 🔗

Agree + help the sheep. Empathise. Not patronise. They can only start from the place they are in right now.

43449 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Major Panic, 3, #779 of 1372 🔗

They wont though. They used to say “you can’t teach stupid” but that’s all people seem to be being taught these days!

43275 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #780 of 1372 🔗

Super Monday – A Review

The Vic
Same as yesterday. Weather permitted a sit outside. Discussion with the barman – he’s not happy with the price hike. Still a piss take take, now the novelty has worn off I’ll probably swerve it for good.

Hot outside. Done away with the contact tracing.

Bingo, rammed. Quite amazing for a Monday afternoon – I never knew it ever got this busy. Still have to sign in. Some of the comments were heartening. An old boy (joking when people joined him for a cig); “keep your distance”. The reply; “get a life”. Other comments include, “it’s all a load of nonsense” and “Boris hasn’t got a clue”.

Same horrible hand sanitizer despite being told yesterday it would be replaced. However, no nonsense service. A-Okay.

The Shipwreck
Lovely outdoor area. Excellent service. Very busy. Get to watch the zombies queuing for Home Bargains whilst having a reasonably priced pint. Decent.

Sun trap at the back. Scorchio.

Top Club
A few old stinkers in there making sideways comments about non-members. Some things never change. Cheap doubles. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Fucked it off after waiting outside. Old lady in front was asked for details inputted to a tablet and walked to her outside table despite there being hardly anyone there. Went back to the Top Club.

Top Club
Double vodka and diet coke

Travellers Rest
Double vod. New young barmaid getting harassed by punters. Chat with the owner – days he had to ‘have a word’ with people yesterday pissed up from the Legion ‘hugging each other’.

Top Club

Little Ex
Was barred pre-lockdown. Maybe still am bit still serves. Table service. Bio-hazard tape on the floor but glasses being clinked in this busy pub.

Another belting day in the new normal. Back to work tomorrow.

43279 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #781 of 1372 🔗

I’m not sure I live in the right area

43283 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #782 of 1372 🔗

Don’t like the sound of the place inputting people’s details into a tablet – less likelihood of them being erased..

43378 ▶▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Carrie, #783 of 1372 🔗

If you’re sensible they’ll be false details anyway, so who cares?

43284 ▶▶ John P, replying to Tom Blackburn, -8, #784 of 1372 🔗

I’m sure Mr Hancock is very pleased that you have been enjoying yourself.

Do make sure to send him a thank you letter for letting you out to play, won’t you?

43289 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, 6, #785 of 1372 🔗

fucking hell pal – you are one depressing cunt

43296 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 3, #786 of 1372 🔗

Do stop it, John.

43469 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to matt, #787 of 1372 🔗

Agree. I got grief from him yesterday, not sure why exactly.

43290 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #788 of 1372 🔗

You’re performing a valuable service. Keep it up!

43300 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #789 of 1372 🔗

Thanks Barney. Still the Legion, Venue and Glass House to go yet. The Dickens can wait.

43366 ▶▶▶▶ Dinger, replying to Tom Blackburn, #790 of 1372 🔗

Where is this Utopia Tee Bee?
Can we all come please and maybe crash at yours to sober up?

43390 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Dinger, 3, #791 of 1372 🔗

Cleveleys, Lancs, Dinger. We also have the best sunset in the world x

43472 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, #792 of 1372 🔗

Hey, lay off with the sunsets, the best ones are undoubtedly autumn sunsets in the fens, with those huge skies.
Can’t vouch for the pubs, though.When I was young, the attitude in remote fenland pubs was ‘here’s a stranger, throw a brick at him’.

43316 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 22, #793 of 1372 🔗

Is this bad? Watching the news, white privilege was mentioned. I asked my OH if he thought he had white privilege. He said yes of course. I asked him what he was going to do about it. He said ‘make the most of it’…..

43338 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to The Spingler, 3, #794 of 1372 🔗

Excellent. Must try to remember that!

43342 ▶▶ IanE, replying to The Spingler, 4, #795 of 1372 🔗

Surely it is exactly the reverse nowadays: lots of positive discrimination in all sorts of situations/jobs/etc.

43347 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to IanE, 2, #796 of 1372 🔗

I don’t see anything positive about it.

43352 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to John P, 3, #797 of 1372 🔗

I should perhaps have put ‘positive discrimination’, i.e. quotas applied to select those of colour rather than selection by ability!

43379 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to IanE, 1, #798 of 1372 🔗

Back in the 1980s there was loads of positive discrimination, it’s nothing new. I ran foul of it when I applied for a university post in Lancashire.

43470 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to IanE, 3, #799 of 1372 🔗

And the rest. In Canada, if you have First Nation blood (i.e. are descended at close range from primitive hunter-gatherers), you are treated very leniently if you commit a crime, because of history’s unjust treatment of your ancestors. So the first thing your lawyer does is shake your family tree vigorously, in the hope that a few primitives will drop out.

43360 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to The Spingler, #800 of 1372 🔗


43321 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 22, #801 of 1372 🔗

I can’t imagine how Simon Dolan must be feeling today. I feel pretty despondent about it all and had hoped for more, after nearly four months is there any hope that the truth will come out and people will see sense? Will the country ever be the same again?

43323 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, 10, #802 of 1372 🔗

He’ll get some publicity now. The Guardian’s account was quite encouraging as it does highlight the points in question and maybe will get people to start thinking.

43330 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #803 of 1372 🔗


43406 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #804 of 1372 🔗

But check out this from the Guardian : ‘Coronavirus: world treating symptoms, not cause of pandemics, says UN Ongoing destruction of nature will result in stream of animal diseases jumping to humans, says report’
You can guess where this is going…’ The report is the latest stark warning that governments must address the destruction of the natural world to prevent future pandemics. In June, a leading economist and the UN said the coronavirus pandemic was an “ SOS signal for the human enterprise ”, while in April, the world’s leading biodiversity experts said more deadly disease outbreaks were likely unless nature was protected.’

43447 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #805 of 1372 🔗


43341 ▶▶ John P, replying to Moomin, 13, #806 of 1372 🔗

“I can’t imagine how Simon Dolan must be feeling today.”

You could try his twitter feed:

“For all those incredulous at the decision today, please consider joining me at keepbritainfree.com where we will continue the war.”

43376 ▶▶ TheFootballIsTheDeadCat, replying to Moomin, #807 of 1372 🔗

The government are doing all they can to stop it being publicised, they deliberately had a premier league football match held on this day to take up the headline spots. The judges involved in Simon’s case have proven themselves to be unworthy of their positions, I think its time that the good sceptical people of this nation started a new and libertarian legal system of their own, because Britain’s is not fit for purpose. Wonder if starting an antilockdown religion might be a good place to start, religous exemptions can get people out of almost anything.

43438 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Moomin, 8, #808 of 1372 🔗

The failure of the appeal supports what I have said before that a major issue with lockdowns is there is no clear threshold or criteria as to what characteristics a disease must possess before lockdowns can be introduced eg the fatality rate, the mode of transmission, how infectious the disease is, how severe the symptoms, what proportion must suffer severe symptoms against those who suffer mild symptoms. This means that lockdowns can be introduced regardless of the characteristics of a disease which is a recipe for tyranny. Without a clear criteria as to what characteristics a disease must possess it is difficult to appeal against lockdowns. For instance, it would be difficult to appeal against lockdowns on the basis coronavirus has a low fatality rate if there is no legal threshold as to what the fatality rate of a disease must be. Another issue is that lockdowns can be introduced without scientific evidence to justify them. To the best of my knowledge the government has provided no detailed scientific research as to how exactly coronavirus spreads and how infectious it is as to justify lockdown.

In law clear thresholds and criteria are essential. For instance, to be charged with drink driving, you must consume above a certain amount of alcohol. Imagine if the drink driving was an offence but there was no definition of what type drink you take and regardless of whether the drink impaired your senses, you could be charged with drink driving with any type of drink.

43448 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ianric, 2, #809 of 1372 🔗

So we need to campaign to get the law made clearer?

43467 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #810 of 1372 🔗

The carpet of history is thickly strewn with the corpses of dead laws. The Covilaw corpse will be the biggest and stinkiest ever.

43962 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Cheezilla, #811 of 1372 🔗

Yes the law should be made clear.

43322 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #812 of 1372 🔗

Just got back from local Aldi. OK so it’s a quiet time to shop but everyone was behaving perfectly normally in there. Only that one cashier still proudly wearing her mask (she is a bit of an airhead but maybe she’s also asthmatic).

I did notice people are still tending to start queuing for the checkouts at 2m, then it kind of dawns on them and they move up to the normal trolley-distance away. There’s hope yet!

43336 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #813 of 1372 🔗

very quiet and normal in our local Aldi and Asda a today. No queue, few masks.

43340 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #814 of 1372 🔗

Aren’t masks particularly bad for asthmatics – or did I get the wrong end of that stick?

43344 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to IanE, 2, #815 of 1372 🔗


No, you didn’t get the wrong end of the stick, but I just interpreted it as dramatic license.

43349 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 3, #816 of 1372 🔗

No you’re correct – but maybe she got the wrong end of the stick. She’s young and slim. Can’t think of any other reason she’d wear one, especially when I’ve never seen one of her colleagues wearing a muzzle. Never seem to get into her checkout queue or I’d ask her.

43353 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #817 of 1372 🔗

My local Morrisons and M&S were quiet today – very few muzzles and with the latter, the barriers are gone save for the demarcation line beween entrance and exit.

43465 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #818 of 1372 🔗

Our Morrison’s is ok, but it doesn’t stock many of our favourite brands. (Partner is lactose-intolerant). Tesco’s has everything, but it’s foul, the full leper experience.
Morrison’ click and collect has lots of free slots. Tesco’s click and collect has none. Website is begging customers to shop in store if at all possible so as to free up slots in the click and collect service.


43489 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #819 of 1372 🔗

There’s also a small Tesco’s in our area – the queues always put me off and ditto the horror stories I’ve read about them.

43361 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #820 of 1372 🔗

Just back from Morrisons and some of the fencing leading to the entrance is gone, hopefully 1M+ will make a difference.

Not many shoppers, but not one mask or muzzle on staff or shoppers.

We shall see.

43412 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #821 of 1372 🔗

In my local Morrisons (Teesside Park, Stockton-on-Tees), you’re “greeted” by a tooled-up security yob filming you as you go in. Thereafter, the place has an air of normality, except for the plastic screens at the checkout.

43420 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #822 of 1372 🔗

Is the filming the new ‘track and trace’? To be cross-checked against people’s mobile phone records?

43446 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #823 of 1372 🔗

Filming? They’d get two fingers from me then I’d be offI

43466 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #824 of 1372 🔗

I’d let him film me giving him two fingers.

43490 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dave #KBF, #825 of 1372 🔗

There’s still the fencing in my local Morrisons but its gotten progressively shorter over the last few weeks.

43432 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #826 of 1372 🔗

I think people will very quickly return to life as normal. The impact of covid is simply not great enough to keep it in people’s minds. The only thing keeping up this nonsense is government edict – but that is what is most scary, because it is going almost entirely unchallenged, and it will become a kneejerk reaction with any future “threat.”

43328 AnotherSceptic, #827 of 1372 🔗

I just want to say…..**** the BBC!!
The scaremongers.
Every single day, from the early morning TV news, to the evening TV news & most programs in between, they are the worst. I am sick to the back teeth of hearing about “coronavirus” or Covid 19….that’s all they bang on about. Continuously.

Also….Nicola “El Presidente” Sturgeon can stick her “mandatory” face mask wearing in shops up her hoop.
I am Scottish, I for one do not in any way agree with anything El Presidente Sturgeon says regarding this common flu virus.
& Now they are banging on about how she has strengthened the case for Scottish independence because of the way that Sturgeon has handled the made up “pandemic”
Honestly, I apologise for the language I have used here, but she is a total & utter ****.
I am seriously gearing up to leave here for good…Scotland is royally ******, like the entire UK.
2400 odd deaths here from “coronavirus” yet that’s out of a population of 5.4 million people (Scotland)
Nicola, if you are reading this, Shove independence up yours & all your stupid rules about this made up virus.
Or get a job with the BBC…..Scaremongers the lot of you.

Rant over. Apologies for my anger, but everyday it just gets more & more surreal.
This, as we know has been since March…we are now into July.

43362 Ritchie2, replying to Ritchie2, 24, #828 of 1372 🔗

Quick update from the working mans world of silliness, sponsored by the Scottish Government…

Having been issued Italian made face coverings, the latest edict from upper management is we are mandated to wear face coverings when travelling in vehicles for greater than 15 mins. Even when travelling alone…. Obviously COVID can infect you when alone, but only when in a vehicle for over 15 mins.

Wearing of face coverings at other times is currently optional, but Nicola and her band of nationalists now want us to wear them in shops from later this week. Clearly there must be a larger risk now, than during the peak.

Around 10 people per day are testing positive up here, very few deaths over the past few weeks. And yet the paranoia about the disease seems greater than ever. My latest few trips to local shops are now punctuated with the nominated staff member shouting instructions at those that dare to enter and to those that don’t understand the complex one way systems and entry systems now in place.

Why anyone would want to visit any type of shop these days is beyond me. It is becoming a very unpleasant experience. On Sunday I decided to take the kids to the local ice cream parlour. No less than 8 signs with contradictory instructions around the entrance. I went to the freezer to pick out an ice cream tub to take home, apparently you can’t go into the freezer without permission… I was then accused of entering via the wrong door, followed by being asked to step back from the heavily Perspex fortified till until instructed to approach. Do you know what? Stick your ice cream…

Similar experience in other shops over the past weeks. Popped into JD Sports, usual uniformed dogsbody on the door insisted use of unlabelled alcohol gel on entry. What is it? I asked. You have to use it, or you can’t come in. I complied but was later warned for picking up merchandise and not buying it. I mean if I’m going to buy a jacket, I want to have a good look at it right? Maybe try it on? Apparently you can’t do this….

The local Next had a very long queuing system in place. Store was empty with no one waiting. A young mum with buggy decided to by-pass said empty queuing system and went direct to the door. I wasn’t going in but this act of defiance took my interest. As expected the door mafia intervened and insisted that the woman turned around and walked through the zig-zag queue bollards, arriving back at the exact same spot to be vetted for entry. I chuckled and walked on..

Shops are over-rated anyway. But ladies and gents, this is the end of the high street. Front door mafia seem to have been specially selected to make shopping as unwelcoming as possible. They are like Facebook Karen’s on steroids.

Can’t wait for nicola’s masks to become mandatory….

43364 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ritchie2, 5, #829 of 1372 🔗

Good report, makes me feel lucky to have normal folk no mafia, in the shops I visit – admittedly I have avoided retail parks and chain shops as normal.

43380 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ritchie2, 11, #830 of 1372 🔗

This vindicates my decision to boycott the high street, pubs, restaurants and now museums. If they insist on treating me like a leper, they ain’t getting my cash.

43459 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ritchie2, 9, #831 of 1372 🔗

I really think that there is a certain type of person who enjoys having the chance to be a high-vizzed little Hitler.

Unfortunately, we had to put a sign up yesterday – not to boss people around, but because customers are now so conditioned to not to come into a shop that we felt we had to encourage them to actually just walk straight in. It reads:

“Welcome back, please come in and find a table and we will come and take your order”

43886 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ritchie2, #832 of 1372 🔗

Scotland the Brave eh?

43369 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 28, #833 of 1372 🔗

I played golf yesterday after accepting a welcome invite from friends who are members at a nearby club. A very windy afternoon with balls landing anywhere but the fairway. An enjoyable round nonetheless.

With Saturday’s ‘relaxation’ of the guidelines, the club had re-opened the 19th hole, so as a token of appreciation, I offered the lads a pint. It was the least I could do in return for their kind offer.

“Can I take your name and address please?” asked the barman after pouring the 3 pints. “You are joking? Why on earth would you need that?” I replied. “We are sat outside in 30mph winds.”

“Tell you what, I will fill in your form if you can give me a copy of your data protection policy. Otherwise, pour the lot down the sink.”

Stunned silence from both parties.

“So, can I take these drinks then?”

“Go on then.”

FWIW, I was going to go down the ‘sign in as Matt Hancock’ route but something needed to be said. It may however have been different story if i hadn’t double-bogeyed the last.

43372 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Howie59, 20, #834 of 1372 🔗

Giving name and address is voluntary.


‘If someone does not wish to share their details, or provides incorrect information
Although this is voluntary, please encourage customers and visitors to share their details in order to support NHS Test and Trace and advise them that this information will only be used where necessary to help stop the spread of COVID-19.

If a customer or visitor informs you that they do not want their details shared for the purposes of NHS Test and Trace, they can choose to opt out, and if they do so you should not share their information used for booking purposes with NHS Test and Trace.

The accuracy of the information provided will be the responsibility of the individual who provides it. You do not have to verify an individual’s identity for NHS Test and Trace purposes’

43421 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Basics, 5, #835 of 1372 🔗

Great spot

43444 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 4, #836 of 1372 🔗

Great ammo. Thanks!

43377 ▶▶ matt, replying to Howie59, 6, #837 of 1372 🔗

Met my brother for a beer today. The pub we agreed to meet at was very relaxed about entry, where you sat and so forth, but while I was was waiting for him, they turned up with two menus, with a contact form on the back. In the end, there was no ale on the menu (odd, because this pub always used to serve ale on tap) and so we just left and went somewhere else without filling in the form.

At the second place (asked to use sanitiser at the door) the waitress asked us to fill in the track and trace details on their website. We didn’t. Nobody noticed.

43405 ▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to matt, 6, #838 of 1372 🔗

The youngest lad in our 2 groups went out the night before to his local. Didn’t help his golf game mind. Anyhow, I asked him what the social distancing measures were like. “All went out the window when they couldn’t keep up with drinks orders.” he said. “I knew it would be relaxed after the doorman gave me a bear hug on our way in.” Needless to say, he’s a regular.

43410 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Howie59, 19, #839 of 1372 🔗

What I’m doing is giving my next door neighbours name and address for contact details as I can’t stand him.

I’m going as many places as possible and signing him up. It’ll teach him to drive into my car and drive off, but not realising there’s three security cameras on the front on the house recording every movement!

43445 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 6, #840 of 1372 🔗

Great plan – and brilliant if there are too many Matt Wankocks and Mickey Mouses so they change tack.
I’d already thought that giving the postcode for some big shed on an industrial estate might be a good idea – or a contact for one of those awful phishing call numbers.

43463 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, #841 of 1372 🔗

I like it!

43416 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Howie59, #842 of 1372 🔗

Got an albatross on the 19th though.

43428 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to James Leary #KBF, #843 of 1372 🔗

a two on a par five

43430 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to James Leary #KBF, #844 of 1372 🔗

Wow! That’s impressive.

43393 Charles, replying to Charles, 5, #845 of 1372 🔗

This must have been put up here many times previously but, still worth a look.

From https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/ 2Jul weekly death stats.

1366 deaths from Covid-19. In total.

43403 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Charles, 2, #846 of 1372 🔗

Does that site have any details re the number of suicides? I tried to look it up on the ONS website, but could not find anything.. I’m sure there must have been more than ‘normal’ since the lockdown..

43411 ▶▶▶ Charles, replying to Carrie, 2, #847 of 1372 🔗

These are the figures for deaths in NHS hospitals; I’m not sure where suicide figures are published, but there’ll be a sceptic that is….

43418 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Carrie, 2, #848 of 1372 🔗

Suicide stats take ages to come out. I don’t even think the 2019 stats have been released yet, and each country publishes their own. I don’t expect we’ll know until about June 2021.

Correction: It might just be Scotland with their thumb up their arses for the 2019 stats. Still… a long wait for Lockdown Suicide stats.

43536 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Carrie, #849 of 1372 🔗

Didn’t I read somewhere (posted by Peter Thomson?) that coroners are reluctant to rule “suicide” to protect the family’s feelings, so stats may be understated.

43440 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Charles, 3, #850 of 1372 🔗

In hospitals yes. Shame we can’t see the stats all in one place, separating OF from WITH.

43539 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #851 of 1372 🔗

The NHS stats show 95% of all “”deaths“ had pre Existing conditions. The times last week also shows 2/3 of people were either disabled or had “difficulties” getting around

It’s pretty clear that Only between 5% and 30% (nearer 5%) have Might have died “Of”

The deaths because of lockdown are way above this number now

43441 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Charles, 3, #852 of 1372 🔗

15 – over the whole country of 65 million +

43471 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Charles, 3, #853 of 1372 🔗

Hi, is this legit? How can it be double checked/made available to people to show them this farce we’re living through? In other words, how can we try and rationally explain these stats, are there any renowned doctors able to support it and explain what it means? Thanks.

43496 ▶▶▶ Charles, replying to Moomin, 3, #854 of 1372 🔗

Good question. It has been published – from the start – by the NHS and roundly ignored by everyone.

Use the link I posted above and see for yourself.

Only part of the story but, surely, reasonable to assume that otherwise healthy people would have been admitted to hospital before becoming critically ill.

43531 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Charles, #855 of 1372 🔗


43525 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Moomin, 1, #856 of 1372 🔗

300 people under the age of 60 have died in 4 months with no ore existing conditions.
Yes it’s legit

43533 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to steve, #857 of 1372 🔗

Gosh, this is mental! Why isn’t anyone reposting this?

43535 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to steve, #858 of 1372 🔗

So the figures are since lockdown and not per day?

43579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to steve, 2, #860 of 1372 🔗

Hi, I’ve checked this out and this is good news surely (if I’ve understood correctly and I’m rubbish with Excel)?! Why hasn’t anyone else picked up on this? So covid19 on its own has only killed 1366 people with no underlying conditions. How can this be more greatly reported/confirmed?

43633 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Charles, replying to Moomin, 2, #861 of 1372 🔗

The big question! One reasonable assumption is that an otherwise healthy person would be admitted to hospital if critically ill.

Therefore, though these are hospital deaths (in England), it is hard to see how the total number without pre-existing conditions could go up much beyond 1366.

We will, of course, never know how many people may have had this virus.

We do know that 56 million people live in England and that 0.00243% of them have died solely from Covid-19 (if diagnosis/testing was correct).

As you say, I believe not one single journalist in the ‘mainstream media’ has reported this – even though the information is publicly available and presented by the NHS.

43419 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 21, #862 of 1372 🔗

Ontario Civil Liberties Association have written to the WHO asking them to retract their recommendation on the usage of facemasks:


The WHO recommendation in-effect is “propaganda by policy” that promotes the undemonstrated view that global central planning can significantly and safely mitigate seasonal and pandemic viral respiratory diseases, which have been with us since breathing animals walked on earth, and which co-adapt with our complex immune system.

43425 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #863 of 1372 🔗


43433 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 46, #864 of 1372 🔗

Just back from a very unpleasant experience this evening, meeting old friends at my local pub in Kingston, the Druids Head. As I entered the pub, a young girl aged about 20 insisted I “scan the QR code” or text my details to their mobile number for “NHS track and trace”. It was farcical! When I explained I was joining my group of friends, she took ages looking on her iPad to confirm the booking before I was allowed entry.

As I joined my old friends (sadly all of them are hugely pro lockdown), they would not shake my hand or my mate’s gf would not do a usual hug to greet me.

I was allowed to order drinks at the bar, but could not carry them to our table. Only bar staff were authorised to do this. As if in some way, this increases the risk of spreading Covid. Of course they had the obligatory Perspex screens on the bar (with massive gaps to pay through).

As you can imagine conversation was riveting. They blamed Boris for not locking down earlier. My mate’s gf said very defiantly, “We are going to be living like this for a VERY LONG TIME!” Almost as if she wanted to live this way forever.

My mate and his gf had a bottle of antibacterial spray on the table. I’m not exaggerating when I say they must have used this about ten times in the space of an hour. Constantly, obsessively spraying and rubbing their hands with it. I joked and said, “Careful, you‘ll run out in an hour!” They weren’t amused.

As we left the pub, comically they would not touch any door handles and only used their elbows to open doors. As we said our goodbyes outside, they offered me some of their hand spray. When I said no, they looked shocked. “But you’ve touched things!” they exclaimed. Then they tried to forcibly spray my hands! WTF! The look of horror on their faces because I refused their spray. They could not believe I would dare refuse it. It was neurotic behaviour to the nth degree. I despair.

Feeling thoroughly depressed now. My mental health has taken a battering for what should have been a fun catch up. I won’t be seeing them again in a hurry. Please tell me this is just a nightmare and not real. 🙁

43436 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RDawg, 17, #865 of 1372 🔗

Nightmare: we’ve slipped through a wormhole into an alternate universe. Or maybe there’s a madness bug going round…

43439 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Nick Rose, 24, #866 of 1372 🔗

It’s really got me down and depressed me. We’re all in our late thirties and have no pre existing medical conditions. How can rational people behave like this? I despair.

43442 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RDawg, 16, #867 of 1372 🔗

I think your example will eventually give them pause for thought. They cannot keep that up. They’ve fallen for the multimillion pound propaganda campaign – can’t blame them completely. By not dying you will become either a mythic legend or an example of sense.

They have to admit they are caught by the scam that is really hard to do.

43450 ▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to RDawg, 12, #868 of 1372 🔗

I’m sure they’re a clever bunch too which no doubt makes it all the more puzzling. I realised a while back that one’s intelligent friends weren’t necessarily the ones blessed with common sense. It certainly rings true now, especially with my family and friends.

Critical thinking in situations unknown to them doesn’t come easy for many people. I’ll bet many of them couldn’t find their way home if they were dropped in the middle of a town they didn’t know.

But don’t despair. That’s what this site is here to prevent.

43458 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nick Rose, 12, #869 of 1372 🔗

I agree. Yesterday, in my shop, I witnessed a child, unprompted, hold out her hands to have the evil hand gel applied by her mother. God, it stank to high heaven. Goodness only knows what damage it will do to her skin, lungs and immune system. And when they’d finished eating, out came the anti-bac wipes. I found it so bloody depressing. Then, even though you could tell she was aching to have a play in the small park behind the shop, she was fearful of venturing out. So very, very sad …

43461 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 11, #870 of 1372 🔗

Child abuse.

43483 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 5, #871 of 1372 🔗

They could have used the toilet where there’s good ol’ fashioned soap and water (plus soap smells better). That poor kid sounds brainwashed.

43488 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #872 of 1372 🔗

I know. That anti-bac stuff is evil. I wouldn’t mind, but I bet the child is fed organic everything at home but the mother had no problem with slathering the poor mite with a cocktail of chemicals. It was so awful, the way she just held out her hand, like it was second nature.

43514 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 2, #873 of 1372 🔗

I did raise the dangers of excessive use of hand sanitiser at work but I think everyone is so terrified of the virus and is committed to following the government guidelines to the letter that my concern fell on deaf ears.

43530 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bart Simpson, #874 of 1372 🔗

Poor kid. Although for years I’ve noticed I’m the only one in the party to use the restaurant’s loos to wash my hands before the food arrives.
Actually if I worked in an office where people regularly go on other people’s computers, I might resort to hand sanitizer, it’s only alcohol. Local councils argue about putting it in parks, in case the tramps drink it.

43534 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bruno, 2, #875 of 1372 🔗

I use hand sanitiser at work when there’s no time to go to the loo but as much as possible I go for hand washing.

I’ve noticed that supermarkets use the cheap and nasty stuff. Had to use it once and it caused the skin in my hands to peel and bleed.

43542 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bruno, 6, #876 of 1372 🔗

No, its not only alcohol. Most cheap santizers contains many other undesirable chemicals that is absorbed by your body (think of nicotine patches that is absorbed into your body).

Always read ingredient list on sanitisers (any other products) before deciding too use it – Informed Decision

43563 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Victoria, 3, #877 of 1372 🔗

I agree. It’s not something I would use. First, it stinks to high heaven and this ingredient sounds particularly nasty :triethanolomine – this is in the gunge that we were ‘given’ by our local council. As Bart says, far better to use soap and water.

43581 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to kh1485, #878 of 1372 🔗

Ethanol =alcohol, clue is in the name. (Alcohols are organic molecules assembled from carbon (C), oxygen (O), and hydrogen (H) atoms. When 2 carbons are present, the alcohol is called ethanol (also known as ethyl alcohol). Ethanol is the form of alcohol contained in beverages including beer, wine, and liquor. ) Actually most commercial soap has a list of unattractive ingredients as well.

43667 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bruno, 2, #879 of 1372 🔗

Thanks for the science lesson … Blimey, this site used to be snark-free. All I said was I would rather use soap and water but if you think this stuff is safe, go ahead, fill your boots. I’m with Victoria and Bart on this …

43876 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 1, #880 of 1372 🔗

It’s also known as TEA, a very common emulsifier. Can cause skin problems if used excessively ……

43659 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to kh1485, 2, #881 of 1372 🔗

I won’t use a product containing triethanolomine.

“Triethanolamine is an amine produced by reacting ethylene oxide (considered highly toxic) with ammonia (another known toxin). It is used as a buffering agent, masking and fragrance ingredient, and surfactant, in addition to its primary use as a pH adjuster.”

43673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Victoria, 2, #882 of 1372 🔗

Thanks for the link Victoria. I did a quick google of it when we were first presented with it and decided then I didn’t want it anywhere near me.

43878 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, #883 of 1372 🔗

Good decision! Soap for me every time.

43460 ▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 12, #884 of 1372 🔗

Oh lord. I think you need some new friends.

43481 ▶▶ Albie, replying to RDawg, 5, #885 of 1372 🔗

Try not to let the ordeal drag you down to their mood. Have a read through some of Toby’s “back issues” of LS to put you in a positive frame of mind again. I think your friends trying to forcibly spray your hands is unacceptable. If anybody asks anyone reading why you are declining gel/spray etc and they get stroppy just calmly or jokingly point out you have never taken offence when people with headaches have declined your offer of paracetamol or aspirin in the past and haven’t tried to force it down their throat.

43884 ▶▶▶ Paul B, replying to Albie, #886 of 1372 🔗

I’m all for pushing back on these things but it needs to hold water, for example not taking an aspirin only affects the taker, the obvious come back to refusing to sanitise your hands is that it isn’t for your protection it’s for everyone’s from you.

43485 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RDawg, 4, #887 of 1372 🔗

Very sorry to hear this and looks like your friends swallowed the propaganda wholesale. Hopefully they will realise that they’ve been had and that your refusal of the hand sanitiser will prove that you were right not to use it all along.

43497 ▶▶▶ Albie, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #888 of 1372 🔗

People won’t admit they have been had by the propaganda though. In a few years these same people may say how shocking the lockdown was and claim to have been against it all along. That’s how life works, it will be group mentality at play again. It will just be down to individuals to pull up their friends ie “You were clearly pro-lockdown at the time! Don’t come all that ‘I was against it’ claptrap, you little liar!”

43501 ▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Albie, 6, #889 of 1372 🔗

It will pass particularly when the mass unemployment hits

43548 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nic, 1, #890 of 1372 🔗

Are unemployed people more likely to march? The miners certainly marched.

43515 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Albie, 3, #891 of 1372 🔗

Exactly. They’ll try to airbrush that out of their past and it will be up to us to remind them that they were complicit in this tyranny.

There’s also October though. Once it really starts to hit them where it matters such as their stomach and pocket, they will quickly change their tune.

43521 ▶▶ steve, replying to RDawg, #892 of 1372 🔗

Very common unfortunately.

43575 ▶▶ GLT, replying to RDawg, 3, #893 of 1372 🔗

I am sorry you had such a depressing experience. I have to be quite selective about the friends I see. I am actually concerned about how I move forward with friends who I know are supporters of the lockdown as I feel that they are morally culpable and complicit in the deaths of all those who will be ‘collateral damage’. At the moment it just makes me too angry.

43576 ▶▶ Shep, replying to RDawg, 3, #894 of 1372 🔗

Sad, I personally think the pub scene was ruined by the smoking ban and has been going downhill ever since. Went past my local yesterday and saw a big bloke in a visor and mask standing in the entrance. Totally off-putting. Ruined for no logical reason, spend my hard-earned on enjoyment elsewhere.

43590 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to RDawg, 4, #895 of 1372 🔗

Thanks for your supportive comments folks. Struggled to get out of bed this morning with depression. Haven’t felt this low in years. 😰

43894 ▶▶▶ Paul B, replying to RDawg, #896 of 1372 🔗

After getting off anti-depressants after 20 years in January 2019 and spending the rest of the year dealing with a number of new illnesses/withdrawal side effects that were crippling, 2020 once again has me today questioning the point of it all.

I mean, government lies, media irresponsibility, social isolation, no accountability, race baiting, the break down of law and order, no travel, friends too scared to socialize, minimal interaction with work colleagues, the court case being stopped at the first, the overwhelming majority of people lapping up all the media bullshit, economy in tatters, young children scarred for life, new abnormals and on and on and on.

Honestly for a single white male with a critical brain and a logical outlook, in 2020 where does it end? Not with any accommodations, benefits, helping hands, compassion, giving a fuck, that’s for sure. I don’t have 2 hours to list all the ways the NHS have failed me personally, but it is long and plentiful. I know where it nearly did end on my 40th mid-lockdown, on the railway line – just cannot see the logic in continuing to get up just to trudge through this shit every day for maybe another 40 years.

There needs to be some sort of movement

44276 ▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Paul B, #897 of 1372 🔗

Hi Paul,
Thanks for your response. I know times are shit at the moment, but one thing my 38 years has taught me is that all suffering is temporary. It will eventually end. I can’t tell you when, or how, but I do believe it will end.
Please don’t give up hope. This too shall pass.

43443 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #898 of 1372 🔗

I’m not trying to drag anybody off topic here, but last week, The Brexit Party sent an e-mail basically asking where members thought the party ought to be headed. There were questions concerning Covid and the government’s response to it that I thought might be of interest.

I don’t have raw numbers, but it’s claimed “tens of thousands” responded. That could be as little as two tens of course, but here are the responses in %age terms:

“Dear Supporter,
No doubt many of you are supporting your local pub this weekend!

Thank you to everybody who took the time to complete our Sunday Survey, sent out to our registered supporters last week.

We had an incredible response, with tens of thousands of completed surveys providing invaluable feedback to Nigel and Richard on the things that you think The Brexit Party should be focusing on.

We wanted to give you some of the key headlines from the responses we’ve had back, to give you a flavour of what our supporters are thinking!

To start, it seems that the majority of you aren’t impressed with the government’s approach to the Covid-19 lockdown, with less than half of you believing it to have been fair and appropriate!

Likewise, only 41% of you believed that the government was lifting lockdown measures ‘at the right pace’!

Over 50% of you don’t believe face masks ought to be mandatory in public, however….

…. only 43% of you would be happy to accept a mandatory vaccine, with 25% making it clear that they would outright refuse to be vaccinated.

The economy was clearly the single biggest concern. In terms of what the government’s priority should be at the moment, the most popular answer by far was ‘the economy and saving jobs’ (42%), followed by ‘stopping the spread of the virus and a second wave (27%) and – no doubt as a result of the events of the last few weeks – ‘preventing civil unrest’ (24%).”

43452 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Nick Rose, 14, #899 of 1372 🔗

The wording seems to imply the only alternative to not lifting lock down at the right pace and mandatory face masks in public is a mandatory vaccine. Its scary that even 43% would accept the forced medication of their fellow citizens particularly when the virus poses no real threat to the vast majority of them and 60-80% are already immune.

We really are ripe to recreate the horrors of Nazi Germany here. Fear the mild virus and inflict boundless harm on your fellow citizens to be kept safe from the contrived threat.

43506 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Saved To Death, #900 of 1372 🔗

At least 57% are agin it.

43648 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Saved To Death, #901 of 1372 🔗

I agree. Try and argue with a Death Cult zealot and bring in the care home deaths and they will not engage. It is simply not an issue for them. They scream about ‘heartlessness’ and ‘callousness’ but all they actually care about is their own skin when we all know there’s next to no risk. Plus, as I and others say often, many people seem to be enjoying this and that appears to have been the case in 1930s Germany too.

43524 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #902 of 1372 🔗

Scary as it sounds at this stage, if they are the only party challenging the lockdown, mask and compulsory vaccines at the election, we might have to vote for them under duress.

43451 Peter Thompson, 17, #903 of 1372 🔗

If you want to see how the media are driving the hysteria now in Australia then try this link. All the same stories which we are familiar with from March 2020 being repeated in Oz.


Covid19 arrived in Australia in March which is the southern summer and it didnt make much progress in the heat. The media harped on about how successful NZ and Australia were and they had been spared the virus in contrast to Britain under a ” Tory ” government . Now unfortunately the winter has arrived and Melbourne has a similar winter to Bristol or Plymouth . This is not a ” second wave ” it is rather the long delayed first wave.

The Victorian government has locked blocks of flats up and police patrol to ensure residents don’t leave ( echos of Wuhan ). Jacinta is concerned because the winter in NZ is similar to Victoria
and because of the NZ policies there is a lot of dry tinder waiting across the Tasman.

43462 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 16, #904 of 1372 🔗

Ianric , in their comment below, sums up exactly what is required to prevent this debacle ever happening again:

‘…. the government has provided no detailed scientific research as to how exactly coronavirus spreads and how infectious it is as to justify lockdown.’

Not only must the law be changed in this country to ensure lockdowns are only permissible, by a vote in parliament, supported by incontrovertible evidence, but our government, one of the major funders of the WHO, must ensure that WHO only issues guidance based on rock solid data.

If that is not in the party manifesto for any future election, no votes……..

43505 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tim Bidie, 8, #905 of 1372 🔗

No, the law must be changed to outlaw lockdowns of the healthy. Full stop.

43642 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #906 of 1372 🔗

It is patently clear that The Precautionary Principle is not compatible with freedom or basic human rights.

43468 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #907 of 1372 🔗

Second wave? Not even close:


A thorough and complete analysis of HIT and viral behaviour. Lengthy but well worth the read.

43529 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Sarigan, 4, #908 of 1372 🔗

Thanks for the link – excellent article.
You can feel the frustration at people who “refuse to do the math” steaming off the page!

My worry in the recent UK stats has been the stubborn refusal of hospitalisation figures to fall. I suspected it was something like the following – glad to see it confirmed:
“One-third of all patients admitted to the city’s [Miami] main public hospital over the past two weeks after going to the emergency room for car-crash injuries and other urgent problems have tested positive for the coronavirus.”
So they become ‘hospitalised Covid cases’ in our stats.
I hope the medics on this site can confirm this.

43482 annie, replying to annie, 34, #909 of 1372 🔗

Last night I realised why we have a lockdown, whereas more serious epidemics in the past didn’t lead to one.
It’s purely and simply because of the internet. Before the internet, the jailed would have had no contact whatsoever with their families, except by phone. It would have been impossible to buy anything except bare essentials. Children would have got no ‘education’ whatsoever, there would be no medical consultations of any kind, track and trace would have been a non-starter, and it would have been impossible to impose fresh restrictions every half hour, because they’d have had to send out letters every time, to every household. The shrieking absurdity of it all would have been apparent to everybody, immediately.
Modern days, modern ways, electronic slavery.

43486 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to annie, 17, #910 of 1372 🔗

This is why I subscribe to the theory the lockdown is a sign of the times rather than a big conspiracy. Back in the days of Spanish Flu, Asian Flu and HK Flu, there was no internet or technology as advanced as today’s. There would have been no such thing as working from home, or an online education, or ordering things from the web. People will have been forced to go to work, school, and the shops in those days. There was also no social media, which magnifies self-centredness and hysterical, emotional overreactions to events – people just kept calm and carried on 50 years ago.

43871 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Poppy, #911 of 1372 🔗

Exactly. You got flu, you had two weeks off work, went back still a bit wobbly and life went on.

43510 ▶▶ Bill Hickling, replying to annie, 7, #912 of 1372 🔗

Yes I agree. I also maintain that this would not have happened pre-internet.

43519 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to annie, 4, #913 of 1372 🔗

Agree. Internet also allowed working from home.

43544 ▶▶ Edna, replying to annie, 5, #914 of 1372 🔗

I had the same thought at the weekend. Well, a similar one: if we didn’t have social media, then we would not have had the hysteria about Covid-19. It would have come and gone much as flu does every year. There might have been a few headlines in the tabloids but that would have been pretty much it.
I was also thinking how sharing views with people validates those views. I have found Lockdown Sceptics to be an island of calm rationality in a vast ocean of hysteria and it’s the sharing of like-minded opinions that caused that. Mind you, I also went on to think that that is why more sinister things also, to their adherents, can become ‘normal’ because via the internet they can share those views with equally sinister-thinking people.
My final thought was that if we banned the internet for 6 months, everything would be back to normal!

43639 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to annie, 3, #915 of 1372 🔗

It’s also because the people in control are micromanaging the crisis and reacting to any indicators that appear to be taking them away from their desired objective.

43712 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 2, #916 of 1372 🔗

And there was no 24/7/365 new culture either.

43759 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to annie, 2, #917 of 1372 🔗

I agree.

Latest from the legal system: People don’t need personal interaction if they have Zoom.

43872 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #918 of 1372 🔗

My heart sank at that!

43484 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 28, #919 of 1372 🔗


I cant be the only one who finds this extremely suspicious…

We are supposed to believe that people went to the pub Saturday, developed symptoms severe enough for them to send off for, or go for, a test, immediately, on a Sunday… for that test to be carried out and the results received quickly enough for the pubs to be informed and shut down by Monday.

I smell a rat… a rat designed to keep people on edge about going out, a rat designed to keep venues in line.

When are they (government, health officials, press) going to admit to the public this disease is not the deadly terror they make out. Until they do, this nonsense continues, but it cant continue – how can we go on like this? 1 ‘case’ in a pub and they have to shut down?! Mental

43504 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark II, 6, #920 of 1372 🔗

the timeframe for this is as you suggest, ridiculous. However we are known to be a nation of “pranksters” .. so many weird people who delight in ringing 999 and calling out the fire brigade on a false alarm. So what is the betting that this was someone pulling reporting as a prank, for revenge. All it needs is a phone call to initiate the whole process.

43508 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to mjr, 2, #921 of 1372 🔗

Id take a prank over coordinated plan to keep the farce going, it’s less depressing at least.

Both of the options reinforce the need for some honesty about the real (lack of) threat posed because this is no way for businesses to function, at constant risk of enforced closure.

43636 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mark II, 3, #922 of 1372 🔗

I guess this was inevitable. It sounds like the ‘New Normal’ equivalent of writing crap on TripAdvisor to get at a rival establishment, to get revenge for whatever reason or simply to make mischief.

So someone goes to a pub and then gets a dodgy, unreliable test the next day? More fool them but in any case it’s not credible that symptoms would develop so soon even in the extremely unlikely event they have actually got CV19.

43507 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark II, 3, #923 of 1372 🔗

I’m guessing MSM need to put a positive spin on the Draconian track and trace leave your details with the waiter/waitress crap. I’m sure the vast majority of details given were fake so they won’t say it will never work in a month of Sundays.

43626 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 4, #924 of 1372 🔗

Leaving details crap is voluntary. Check out the gov website about it. Linked on this page somewhere. Giving details is voluntary only.

43546 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Mark II, 4, #926 of 1372 🔗

I’m sure if a group of 10 people all got a raging hangover on the Sunday morning, they would think it was a symptom of Covid (I mean, everything else is). Quite enough to justify closing the pub!

43868 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, 1, #927 of 1372 🔗

In Batley, West Yorkshire, the Fox and Hounds said a customer had phoned to say they had tested positive for coronavirus .

Bloody idiot! So much for customer loyalty!

43487 Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 11, #928 of 1372 🔗

Visited another pub yesterday after work and a dog walk. No need to book, or provide details etc. Just had to wait on arrival but was told to sit where we like in the garden. It was table service only though, but was as close to a normal pub experience so far. Lots of people, good for a Monday as well.

I just had a look at the Sun and Mail online quickly, just to see if any are dreaming up new horror stories or a second wave has begun article. Neither appeared to be reporting much at all on covid-19 from scanning through from the top story.

43494 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 1, #929 of 1372 🔗

Although the Express leads with a story it was deliberately engineered to be more “deadly” in a lab. Then about three articles down has a story that Chinese workers clearing a cave of bat faeces got it in 2012!

43502 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Rabbit, 3, #930 of 1372 🔗

The Daily Fail was running with a bubonic plague scare story yesterday. Has that one, ahem, died a death? I tend not to pay the MSM any attention, never mind money.

43491 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #931 of 1372 🔗

Refusal to wear mask should be as taboo as drink-driving, says Royal Society chief Refusing to wear a mask in public during the Covid-19 epidemic should become as socially unacceptable as drink-driving or not wearing a seatbelt, the president of the Royal Society has said….
…Venki Ramakrishnan called for everyone to be required to wear a mask in all indoor public settings, rather than only on public transport, and criticised confused messaging from the government.


43495 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Barney McGrew, 14, #932 of 1372 🔗

Snap! Just posted the same, only reported on the BBC as well, aka this rubbish is being disseminated by the gov propaganda arm.

43745 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, #933 of 1372 🔗

It’s weird though, because the government keep saying they want to deal with the BBC… Mason Mills is still posting about it on Twitter..

43855 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #934 of 1372 🔗

As log as they keep threatening the beeb, they can blackmail it into propaganda compliance.

43509 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #935 of 1372 🔗

Jesus wept.

43537 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #936 of 1372 🔗

“Its usually quite a bad idea to wear a facemask”


43538 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #937 of 1372 🔗

But… remember the SPI-B report about increadig personal threat level and using social shaming to achieve the behavioural change they want?

This is it folks. These BBC and guradian article connect exactly through to SPI-B.

The timing of such an extreme act by them? They are deserate. This shows they are absolutely all in to get us fully altered as a nation.

They’ve not published irrefutable papers of brilliance about face coverings, they can’t. Yet this is absolutely a behavioural change to socially shame others. Let it sink in what that means for our realtionship to government.


SPI-B doc see the red link ‘PDF, Mirrored’ under:
Increasing the Public’s Compliance with Social Distancing

43569 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Basics, 8, #938 of 1372 🔗

Going back to normal is no longer said, by any ministers or opposition. It’s all ‘new normal’ – even the supposed scientists joining in, with the dickhead from Royal Society this morning telling us to accept masks at all times outside of the house as a ‘new norm’.

This is a dangerous and slippery slope we’re on, and there appears to be sod all we can do about it, there’s no political opposition to it from any side, the courts have failed to protect us from it, and by and large the public are willing it on.

43571 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark II, 3, #939 of 1372 🔗

The support from a lot of the public for this overreaction has been disappointing and worrying, but I don’t think there is much general desire to wear masks outdoors all the time, otherwise people would already be doing it. But the vast majority are not. Small comfort, but comfort nevertheless.

43574 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Julian, #940 of 1372 🔗

Agree that it has been a small comfort, but I can see that rapidly changing with the huge current PR push for them.

43749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 1, #941 of 1372 🔗

Likely that once they experience wearing masks, people might change their minds. Those that have the semblance of one left, that is …

43861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #942 of 1372 🔗

Another heatwave should sort it for many.

43624 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 3, #943 of 1372 🔗

Putting on outside increases the number of people able to break a draconian rule. It is not all one way. Each bit of rule they puke out comes with an opportunity for people to break.

43622 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark II, 6, #944 of 1372 🔗

Keep it normal normal. Not old normal, f*** their new normal

43493 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 32, #945 of 1372 🔗

Coronavirus: Don’t leave home without a face covering, says science body https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53316491

‘Not wearing a face covering should be regarded as “anti-social” in the same way as drink driving or failing to wear a seatbelt, Prof Ramakrishnan said.’

Jesus. We have a qualified scientist comparing 2 things that can actually kill you in much greater numbers than Covid, to wearing a mask. The evidence for the benefits of wearing masks are nowhere nearly as established as the benefits of not drinking before driving, or wearing a seatbelt, so why the deeply disingenuous comparison? I have no doubt that social media will be used as a tool to shame those who dare not buy into the hysteria and refuse to wear a mask. I have a history of anxiety and panic attacks and I have no doubt that being forced to wear one all day may well bring on such an attack but not sure how I could prove this to the coronazis, short of showing my medical history which I don’t want to do because it’s confidential and I shouldn’t have to do that anyway.

Are there any Doctor Who fans on this board? The episode which used to scare me the most as a child was ‘The Idiot’s Lantern’, about an alien disguised as a seemingly friendly lady in a 1950s TV set which fed on the lifeforce of humans. The victims were left totally faceless, and for some reason I found the image of those blank human faces deeply terrifying. It still makes me uneasy. The masks remind me of this horrendous TV episode – seeing noseless, mouthless people walking around is quite frightening. Even moving away from the Doctor Who comparisons, it is still very unsettling to see most of someone’s face covered up because it is dehumanising and we have evolved as a species to communicate using not only speech, but facial expressions.

43498 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Poppy, 13, #946 of 1372 🔗

Hi Poppy. I previously linked to a crowd funding page started by a woman with autism who finds wearing a mask intolerable. Also, her autistic kids are distressed when they cannot see her face. Clearly there are also issues for deaf people who rely on lip reading.

This Ramakrishnan person is so unsophisticated that he aligns himself with the most primitive instincts in society: whipping up a mob to cast out, abuse or kill those that look ‘different’.

43499 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Poppy, 15, #947 of 1372 🔗

A taboo I shall break regularly.

43500 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Poppy, 18, #948 of 1372 🔗

It also sounds like the government trying to hide a desired policy behind other people. This means they can claim to be following “the science” when they get the public to “demand” compulsory masks.

43503 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nick Rose, 13, #949 of 1372 🔗

And the idiots are only too happy to oblige I fear.

As far as I’m aware the mask thing is not just weak science, they haven’t been able to do a single study that can actually prove they’re useful, and as such there is no way on earth any scientist should be calling for them, given the associated costs both economically, environmentally and socially – and yet here we are. I despair… Can tell today is going to be another bad one.

43561 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark II, 8, #950 of 1372 🔗

Just refuse to comply. Enough people refuse to co-operate with it, the courts system will be clogged up very very quickly. Especially if you plead not guilty and demand a jury trial. (Make it expensive too)

43607 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #951 of 1372 🔗

Very sadly, these enforcement bollox tend to be ‘magistrates court only’ offences. Still get a day in court, but no jury.

43732 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark II, 5, #952 of 1372 🔗

We need to keep playing that clip of Jenny Harries saying there is no need for masks!

43845 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #953 of 1372 🔗

The Royal Society gets grants from the government!

Just out of interest, does anyone on here jump out at you?

43511 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 11, #954 of 1372 🔗

A very stupid article and what does this “doctor” know? There has been no proven health benefits to wearing masks, in fact they have been established to be harmful.

And what about the social and psychological costs associated with mask wearing? The barrier to communication? Do these not matter?

Lastly what about security? Did this clown ever thought that if a crime is committed then no way would the police be able to catch the perpetrator?

Not to mention he’s encouraging shaming of those who can’t and won’t wear them which is pandering to the mob mentality. Shame on him.

43512 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #955 of 1372 🔗

Forgot also the environment. Funny how this virus has caused the planet to go out of the window,

43526 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #956 of 1372 🔗

It’s a climate emergen y din’t you know and we are at war with it don’t you know!

43517 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #957 of 1372 🔗

I’m becoming increasingly frustrated and despondent: having spoken to a friend yesterday about the latest idiotic diktat from Holyrood I realised just how obedient most people are becoming.

This friend is well educated and retired but convinced of the sound reasoning behind the mask orders.

She wouldn’t accept that wearing dirty scarves or useless pieces of cloth do no good at all, apart from, as Poppy rightly points out, disguising expression, contributing to the widely spreading anomie which now affects us, and generally causing significant distress and discomfort.

Poppy’s concerns about panic attacks are entirely legitimate while my own objection is that, having weak sight and being reliant on glasses, I don’t wish to have to peer through fogged up specs just to show how ‘on message’ I am.

What is even more exasperating is that masks are not mandatory in English shops: what better way to sow confusion, resentment and growing frustration.

Surely we can do better than this.

Now Simon Dolan’s landmark case has been thrown out and here we are, reduced to clapping, mask wearing, snitching on dissidents and steadily curtailing our freedom of speech, thought, and dress, apparently willingly-(except for us).

I’m disgusted and ashamed, all the more so when I read about the recent tragedies: suicides; a young mother of 28 dying of cancer, Matt’s recent comments here about the way all this is damaging his children.

Yet still, the morons ignore the sheer devastation and unnecessary division which this has caused.

43520 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to wendyk, 4, #958 of 1372 🔗

What is even more exasperating is that masks are not mandatory in English shops: what better way to sow confusion, resentment and growing frustration.” My worry is that there is a way of getting round that one -now the lead on the online Grauniad https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/07/refusal-to-wear-mask-should-be-as-taboo-as-drink-driving-says-royal-society-chief

43522 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to arfurmo, 19, #959 of 1372 🔗

Yes you’re quite right and this is what worries me too: that naming and shaming will soon be the order of the day.

This is veering towards a Goebbels-like manipulation of the trusting masses by means of mind bending disguised as solidarity for the good of all.

it’s awful.

43565 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to wendyk, 12, #960 of 1372 🔗

agree – heard on radio this morning that medical fella saying that masks should be worn … they are drip feeding this through the media and with scotland enforcement coming on friday i wouldn’t be surprised if in a couple of weeks this will be the rule in england also.
i will defy it with my last breathe and tell any nazi where to sling their hook!

43528 ▶▶▶▶▶ Invunche, replying to arfurmo, 11, #961 of 1372 🔗

“The research suggested that, in late April, uptake of mask-wearing in the UK was around 25%, compared to 83.4% in Italy, 65.8% in the United States and 63.8% in Spain, according to the Royal Society.”

In late *April* when no one was allowed out at all in Spain or Italy there was a 60% plus uptake in mask usage?

Well duh y’think mister scientist?

It’s a blatantly bullshit statement.

The honesty of science has taken an absolute hammering these last few months.

43547 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Invunche, 11, #962 of 1372 🔗

Because I like to be informed (or cos I’m a sad loser) I’ve even just read the study conclusions and summary linked to in the guardian. Needless to say, there is no new evidence to backup such a draconian policy, the Royal society, guardian and BBC are clearly pushing an agenda on masks for some reason, because their own study essentially boils down to ‘surgical masks, if used correctly, *might* *contribute* to reducing transmission *if everyone* wears them *all the time*’ . Their evidence is anecdotal, pointing out that Italy, Spain and US have high mask use (which is funny cos they’re all over US case rates daily…) but fails to acknowledge our low mask use doesn’t seem to be hindering the virus from disappearing here. They fail to compare transmission levels in countries with no mask mandate with those that enforce it too.

43613 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 6, #963 of 1372 🔗

… pushing an agenda on masks for some reason …

Control/police state/power grab/symbol of subservience/insanity/Great Reset/Agenda 2030/soylent green production/alien takeover.

Take your pick. These are the ones I can come up with. But at the risk of boring people –


43682 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Invunche, 5, #964 of 1372 🔗

25%? Utter nonsense. More like less than 5%. Unless I live and work in unusual places….

43550 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 10, #965 of 1372 🔗

Its becoming frustrating agree. My father-in-law isn’t happy, his sight isn’t exactly good and he’s not looking forward to his glasses steaming up leaving him blind as a bat.

I get panic attacks while Mr Bart gets really bad headaches and it triggers a bad experience in his past hence why we’ve printed off those exemption cards from the gov.uk website.

I’m hoping that people will eventually wake up. At some point this will be unsustainable especially when companies are hit with court cases over falling ill on their premises while wearing a mask or being a victim of crime and the police couldn’t help because no-one could identify the perpetrator.

43556 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #966 of 1372 🔗

I didn’t know about the exemptions-silly me-I’ll look now.Sight in my right eye is compromised by damaged retina.
Wonder if I’ll be able to swing an exemption?

43566 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 4, #967 of 1372 🔗

I think you can as all you need to do is to download the exemption and keep it in your phone or have a lanyard with you. They are not allowed to ask why as its against GDPR, privacy laws and medical confidentiality.

43742 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to wendyk, 1, #968 of 1372 🔗

‘Course you can – just download the card.

43585 ▶▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #969 of 1372 🔗

Bart -can you post a link to the cards, please?

43588 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to arfurmo, 1, #970 of 1372 🔗

Here’s the TFL one: https://tfl.gov.uk/campaign/face-coverings

Does anyone know how to post an image? There used to be a function to post images but it seems to have disappeared.

43645 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #971 of 1372 🔗

Thanks for this link
Face coverings exemptions The requirement to wear a face covering on TfL’s public transport stations, platforms and services does not apply to:

  • Children under the age of 11
  • Employees of, or persons providing agreed services to, TfL
  • Police constables (including British Transport Police officers) acting in the course of their duty
  • Members or employees of the emergency services responding to an emergency

You also do not need to wear a face covering if you have a good reason not to; such as:

  • If you have a physical or mental illness or impairment, or a disability that means you cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering
  • If putting on, wearing or removing a face covering would cause you severe distress
  • If you are travelling with, or providing assistance to, someone who relies on lip reading to communicate
  • If you are travelling to avoid injury or escape the risk of harm, and you do not have a face covering with you
  • If you need to remove it during your journey to avoid harm or injury or the risk of harm or injury to yourself or others
  • If you need to eat, drink, or take medication you can remove your face covering
  • If you are asked to remove your face covering by a police officer or other official, for example to check your railcard
43683 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Victoria, 1, #972 of 1372 🔗

Thank you for this

43739 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 6, #973 of 1372 🔗

Note the exemption for the police, emergency services, TFL employees – how come they have super-immunity to the virus? Either it is dangerous, so everyone must wear a mask, or it is not, in which case no on needs to wear one.. They can’t have it both ways!

A bus driver surely comes into contact with large numbers of passengers daily, whereas a passenger might just travel on one bus, so I would say drivers are at *more* risk than passengers.

Here in Uppsala, the front part of the bus, around the driver + front row of seats, is roped off with hazard tape to protect him/her from infection, whilst all boarding and disembarking is done via the side doors. No masks!

43744 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 4, #974 of 1372 🔗

I wouldn’t advocate getting on any bus where the driver is wearing a muzzle. What if s/he faints owing to lack of oxygen?

43767 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #975 of 1372 🔗

Exactly, I was merely pointing out that *if* masks are compulsory as protection, then the same rules should apply to everyone..

43883 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 1, #976 of 1372 🔗

I agree with that. The long list of exemptions suggests that they are telling us that they are doing this to us because they can. It’s sadistic!

43523 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 9, #977 of 1372 🔗

Noticing a lot of mistaken ‘masks’ being talksd about.. The scientists are NOT talking masks they are talking face-coverings.

Scientists is too good a word for them .

43527 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Poppy, 15, #978 of 1372 🔗

Has anyone got any photos of Boris wearing a mask? I messaged my MP to ask if Boris wore one when he was in his chauffeur driven car, and if not, why not? I’m also waiting for the MP to provide me with the government’s risk assessment that it must surely have carried out on the dangers of wearing masks for long periods of time. I won’t hold my breath (in case I pass out from lack of oxygen!)

43552 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Margaret, 2, #979 of 1372 🔗

He would probably look like a bank robber.

43568 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #980 of 1372 🔗

He’s a liberty thief, no mask needed.

43704 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Margaret, 1, #981 of 1372 🔗

If not, why not riles these servants right up. Always asking why of these authoritarian lackies gets them viciously thrashing about with rage. Strangely though if not’ why not, is often the most reasonable question to ask.

43743 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, #982 of 1372 🔗

He’d probably claim he was now immune, having had the virus..
But surely other MPs should be wearing masks when out and about, and if not, they should be challenged on this..

Sitting on a bus is not that dissimilar to sitting on a bench in the Commons – why aren’t MPs masked there? On a bus, if there are not many passengers, you could be socially distancing like they do in Parliament, so why have a mask?

Where’s that bit of film from the US, where people remove their masks at the end of a press conference, not realising the cameras are still on?!

43854 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #983 of 1372 🔗

Don’t get this the wrong way round!

Muzzle-wearing is only a guideline, except on public transport. If we try to embarrass MPs into setting a muzzled example, we create a rod for our own backs.

As it is, their lack of muzzles is a perfect example for us to follow!

43897 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #984 of 1372 🔗

Yes, I think this is the right way to think about it. As an example, Wee Krankie has been modelling a tartan muzzle – yukk! I’ve just seen a couple of links to articles that claim that sales of these rotten things are going through the roof in Scotland – WTAF?

Anyway, UK Column yesterday showed a great ad-bust of the photo where someone had super-imposed the bottom half of Hitler’s face over the mask!

43603 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Poppy, 6, #985 of 1372 🔗

‘Not wearing a face covering should be regarded as “anti-social” in the same way as drink driving or failing to wear a seatbelt, Prof Ramakrishnan said.’

Gobshite should be regarded as ‘anti-humanity’, in the same way as Josef Mengele or Ewen Cameron, John said.

Yet another paid servant (knighthood) of the establishment. Goes on the list.

43900 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, #986 of 1372 🔗

As a friend once put it, ‘Shite is the new bollocks’. :

Servants of the Establishment: That’s just about right!

43513 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #987 of 1372 🔗


Melbourne ‘s leader Daniel Andrew was the Australian version of St Jacinta. he has now discovered that he has been like King Canute listening to his courtiers in public health.6 weeks hard lockdown for Melbourne now.

43674 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #988 of 1372 🔗

Israel have recently discovered the same.

43516 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 7, #989 of 1372 🔗

No Spanish herd immunity . https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8495779/Herd-immunity-coronavirus-unachievable-5-people-Spain-antibodies.html well of course not if you lock everyone down and then have severe local lockdown when the virus pops its head up for a few minutes.Waiting for the article “Sweden gets herd immunity”.

43518 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to arfurmo, 11, #990 of 1372 🔗

Just ignore. more scare stories. There is no proper test to determine immunity.

43532 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to arfurmo, 14, #991 of 1372 🔗

A good journalist would be asking “if there is no herd immunity then where is Spain’s second wave?”

But I suppose such a question might be too much.

43599 ▶▶▶ 4096, replying to Invunche, 14, #992 of 1372 🔗

Yes, this makes you realise just how f******* stupid the vast majority of people are. You spend you life thinking that, of course, not everyone can be a theoretical physicist but people have their common sense, surely if they can function in society, have a job etc. they must have some basic reasoning skills.
But then something like this happens and you have a clear litmus test which brings to the surface all of your hidden suspicions – yes most people are dangerously stupid and at the very least shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

How can you at the same think that the virus is still out there (true) and that there is no herd immunity if the number of cases is not increasing? Because of lockdown? How the f*** does that work? The lockdown is over. There was never a lockdown in Sweden.

43638 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to 4096, 3, #993 of 1372 🔗

Yes very scary indeed!

It is very difficult to argue with a ‘clever’ person, it is impossible to argue with a ‘stupid’ person.

43825 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #994 of 1372 🔗

DH used to say “You can’t educate pork!”

43724 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to 4096, 2, #995 of 1372 🔗

They’re telling us in Sweden that we could have a second wave, but I’m not sure how, because it was winter here when our cases were worst (we have very long winters here). They are doing more testing, which makes it look like cases are rising, but none (or very few) of these people are ill enough to need to be admitted to hospital, because the numbers are continuing to steadily fall..

43627 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Invunche, #996 of 1372 🔗

Hah, nice oxymoron to start (‘good journalist’)!

43541 ▶▶ guy153, replying to arfurmo, 10, #997 of 1372 🔗

Well also if you wait three months before doing the test, and a full six months, nearly seven since the outbreak began. It has been documented here https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.05.21.108308 that levels of antibodies in milder cases are low to start with and drop to below the threshold of the test after 6 to 8 weeks or even less. This does not mean you have actually lost immunity– you will have memory cells for many years, probably for life, meaning you are unlikely to suffer more than a very mild reinfection.

But I will try and find the study and compare with the earlier one they did (which was also long after the peak). If the second study shows levels lower than the first one then this is confirmation that they are dropping rapidly and this is why so few people are testing positive.

EDIT: It doesn’t look like this is even a new study. It’s just the original one that we already read about in the Spanish press around May 14, now peer-reviewed and published in the Lancet. They say “The study design includes three successive follow-up waves of data collection, with a 1-week break between them. Each wave is scheduled to be completed within 2 weeks” but I don’t think we have any data from them. That will be quite interesting to see.

43567 ▶▶▶ GLT, replying to guy153, 4, #998 of 1372 🔗

Thanks Guy. This was also reported in the DT this am with no links or reference to the research. DT also included the claim the the death toll would be catastrophic in order for Spain to reach herd immunity. No evidence for that, of course.

43857 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to GLT, 1, #999 of 1372 🔗

Some of the follow-up results have been published in Spain (to appear in the Lancet three months later no doubt…)

This guy has a good account:


He’s estimating about 10% drop in antibodies per month. Peak infections in Spain were around mid-March and the first round of antibody studies were centered around May 11. So about 2 months later, meaning the original study would have underestimated prevalence by about 20% (due to antibody levels dropping).

So that would put you on about 15% to 17% in the hardest hit places at the peak (Segovia, Burgos) rather than 13%. Still quite low, but I still doubt that Spain is not at or close to herd immunity.

43882 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to guy153, 2, #1000 of 1372 🔗

Was going to edit that but maybe there’s a timeout… Anyway wanted to add the main reason for thinking Spain is at herd immunity is that you could clearly see that their log-deaths graph was levelling off around mid March, as soon as their lockdown started with no time for it to have had any effect. In other words, it was just like the UK– the lockdown happened just after peak infections.

When those serology results appeared showing higher prevalence in Community of Madrid but lower in Catalonia I initially thought this was because lockdown had prevented spread to Catalonia.

But we since saw from the waste water analysis ( https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.06.13.20129627 ) that the epidemic started in Barcelona on January 15, three months before the lockdown and the peak. Never mind the controversial March 2019 result in that paper, which is also interesting, but I’m talking about the main epidemic which they matched on several different markers several times with the PCR test.

So I now believe there must be a different reason for the lower seroprevalence in Barcelona. I don’t think it can have been the lockdown because the lockdown was so late. Part of it may be that Barcelona actually had the peak earlier than Madrid so the antibodies had already gone down by more. But it wouldn’t have been that much earlier and this only accounts for some of it.

43577 ▶▶ Julian, replying to arfurmo, 4, #1001 of 1372 🔗

It will be interesting to see what happens in Sweden, and how they explain it. I know life is not completely normal there, either, and the restrictions they do have (and the changes in behaviour undertaken voluntarily) MAY be slowing the spread a bit, but their restrictions have been considerably looser than most, and hospitalisations and mortality have got back to normal. People can do all the studies they want, but if they carry on like this how can anyone argue that they have not reached herd immunity?

Again I think we are seeing people trying to make the facts fit the theory rather than the other way round. It appears a lot of scientists are as susceptible to collective hysteria, groupthink, lack of courage, vanity and political ambition as the rest of us.

43731 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 3, #1002 of 1372 🔗

I’m in Sweden and am interested to see how they will act here towards the autumn, with numbers in hospital continuing to fall. The limit of 50 people at any gathering is still in force, meaning no cinemas, theatres, churches, football grounds etc are open, and how long people will put up with that, when there are no cases of CV19, remains to be seen. Our sixth forms and adult education classes will be open again for the autumn term, which is positive, and compared to other countries we are relatively ‘free’, but nonetheless people are keen for other social activities to resume..

43586 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to arfurmo, 2, #1003 of 1372 🔗

Actually that is an argument against lockdowns, since Sweden has (at least for the current mild restrictions they have) achieved herd immunity. What else could explain the reduction in deaths they have experienced? They should still be multiplying exponentially if that wasn’t the case.

43601 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to jrsm, 2, #1004 of 1372 🔗

Absolutely – let’s hope even the evil forces arrayed against us cannot magic away a whole country.

43831 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #1005 of 1372 🔗

So far, they’ve managed to lose Dorset ….

43604 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1006 of 1372 🔗

There will never be any herd immunity because it has been decided that there is only one definition of herd immunity that is acceptable.

Anything else is just life for which we have many questions but very little answers.

43651 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1007 of 1372 🔗

We in Scotland have a plan. A devi sirdah plan -thats code for bullshit plan ssh- the plan has its own snappy title. The plan is COVID zero. Devi is of the ilk that fears big letters hence COVID.

Frightening huh? Not the big letters, you can handle those, but the hair on fire screamingly ridiculous plan. Zero.

When I look up to the heavens I see Covid ZERO appearing out of the mists accompanied by a chorus of angels and devi banjoing away on a broken lute.

43675 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 1, #1008 of 1372 🔗

Yet another way to maintain the obligatory divergence from RUK. I await Bagpipes Blackford’s next droneathon in the HOC.

Meanwhile, these are recommended:



43540 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 16, #1009 of 1372 🔗

Please could someone tell me whilst all the nonsense about lockdowns and face coverings and second spikes and businesses closing and people losing their jobs and kids not being in school and people not getting cancer treatment … why is Rishi giving out £5k for home insulation? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53313640

43545 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Country Mumkin, 16, #1010 of 1372 🔗

Apparently, it’s to boost Green job opportunities-and of course, the installation of insulation invariably requires that face masks be worn: boom boom!!

And it only applies to England at the moment: cue more division ,point scoring etc, etc.

43549 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to wendyk, 7, #1011 of 1372 🔗

Haha nice take on the mask bit, first time i’ve smiled today!

43554 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark II, 3, #1012 of 1372 🔗

Thank you! Trying to cheer us all up a little

43596 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 6, #1013 of 1372 🔗

Read the amazon reviews of devi sirdahs book… that gives cheers! 43% one star, “because they can’t give none”!

43668 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, #1014 of 1372 🔗

Hahaha! Good news!

43823 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, 1, #1015 of 1372 🔗

And when everyone has insulation, what then? Back to the dole queue?

43558 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #1016 of 1372 🔗

Because it’s the correct Communist thing to do. Comrade.

43572 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Country Mumkin, 7, #1017 of 1372 🔗

Because this is part of the whole plan of resent -that’s why! They’ve not even begun yet! You may think I’m a mad hatter anyway so here’s what I believe the longterm plan is for home insulation.

All dwellings will be made by legislation to achieve a ‘c’ energy efficiency standard or higher.

Listed buildings will be clad. Including, cathedrals, this has been discussed in house of lords -20 year time frame for cathedrals.

World Heritage Sites – Bath Cresent, York Shambles, Edinburgh New and Old towns will be insulated clad if other forms of insulation not possible. Edinburgh council leader has spoken about exactly this – a trade off, heritage against carbon emissions.

Communal heating technology is being considered, individual gas boilers considered too harmful. Wood burners were news recently with the result being coal and unseasoned wood banned in homes.

This plan to insulate all our buildings comes from the UN Sustainable Development Goals.

Local councils have been invited by Scottish MSPs to make demonstrations of how in practice this can be done. It’s failed so far,the costs are extraordinary obviously. Scot Gov data says 2.5 million homes require retrofitting. The plan to date has been to force remortgaging to pay.

Clearly this is lunatic sounding stuff from me. But it’s been spoken about in the House of Lords, Scottish Parliament working groups and it is part of the UN Sustainable Development goals.

Best source I have to get an understanding of where this leads and how we get there at local level is Mark Windows youtube channel Windows on the World. Please don’t dismiss and as crazy youtube reference until you’ve listened. Always based on official documentation with references.

43589 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 3, #1018 of 1372 🔗

Not loony at all, Basics. And it’s just one prong of the nonsense being directed at us at present. Good for everyone to be aware of all aspects.

43611 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 2, #1019 of 1372 🔗

Thank you for saying John B. I’ve personal experience of this aspect -I know this is true. I also have experience with this akin to the friends in pubs who simply don’t believe the blatantly clear.

As if by magic Sky Ness news are carrying a repeating report today which starts the bread crumb trail of predetermined ‘public discussion’ that will result in green building legislation being passed.

No one left behind they’ll cry, meaning we will force you to comply.

43746 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JohnB, -1, #1020 of 1372 🔗

And I know for a fact all the new roof insulation will be impregnated with Covid vaccine which will be activated when they switch on the 5G masts, I saw it in YouTube, Facebook, Twitter or somewhere…

44901 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, #1021 of 1372 🔗

Go for it, Sylvie. We tin-foil-hatters are pretty smug right now after our government has locked up everyone and fucked the economy over a common cold. Trust them, you’ll be ok …

45255 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bruno, #1022 of 1372 🔗

Lol just read this now Sylvie, not sure what you are getting at. In my post above about the lunatic clsdding of cathedrals and 2.5 million homes requiring upgrading according to scot gov figures. All i need to say is I have lived and breathed everything I wrote. I pay attention to how things fit together – not a member of fb or twit and you show me where what i wrote is found on youtube. Seems a slightly weak put down from yourside.

Like I say lived it all. Take it or leave it. It matters nothing to me what you think about it. If you have ideas that would be interesting.

43600 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1023 of 1372 🔗

Maybe they expect a lot of people to be stuck in doors, moreso than usual, this winter.

43634 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1024 of 1372 🔗

Misguided effort to make people think that the Government will rescue this failing economy. Smoke and mirrors!

43551 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 19, #1025 of 1372 🔗

With the newly announced 6 week hard lockdown in Melbourne the media have been instrumentalised to serve up the propaganda . They Australians are using the same cook book as the British government. Nice story about a 22 year old plumber whose lungs were filling up with fluid.; ” he was thought to have covid19 ” ….except you have to read much further down to read …actually he didnt .


Melbourne in winter is cold and dreary…with the hard lockdown it will be even worse.

43553 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Peter Thompson, 19, #1026 of 1372 🔗

for fuck sake, the amount of times that article mentions Covid, and yet he didn’t have it… such disgusting propaganda going on.

43557 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #1027 of 1372 🔗

Keep on pointing to Sweden. Keep on. The lockdown loons hate it.

43578 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #1028 of 1372 🔗

What is the point of that story? He thought he had covid but he didn’t – so beware, because covid MIGHT be like something that isn’t covid??

43583 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1029 of 1372 🔗

I might win the lottery or walk on the moon…..then again….

43605 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1030 of 1372 🔗

The government need the media to publish stories to terrify the populace as part of its strategy as outlined in SAGE minutes to ensure conformity with the lockdown. Any story will do . The reader will only glance at the article and think that the 22 year old had covid 19 .
Only someone who reads the article to the end will realise that the young man didn’t have covid

43719 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #1031 of 1372 🔗

No one in the MSM seems to have realised that the wave in Australia is *not* a *second* one – it’s the *first* one, because they are now moving to winter…. think they had fewer cases before due to it being summer..

43555 Biker, replying to Biker, 39, #1032 of 1372 🔗

Another day closer to the Day of the Mask in the nightmare piss poor country that is Scotland. I’d like to say we’ll all stand up to the vile Sturgeon but we won’t, some will, some won’t but Friday is the day Scotland dies as a nation and becomes a fascist country where fuckers like Sturgeon think they can impose medial procedures on you against your will. This is what the Nazi’s did. Sturgeon and her embarrassing followers are gonna get a rude fucking wake up on Friday.
The very idea i have to block the fucking air coming into my lungs because a barren dwarf like her says so or fat fucks who can’t look up the internet and find out how bad masks are for you won’t be happening. Friday is the end of the Scottish People. Anyone who complies with the Day of The Mask is a traitor and will be treated as such. My old dear looks like Mrs Thatcher and is very posh and educated and done the right thing all her life, she now into her 80’s will not be wearing a mask. She’s gonna civil disobedience, i am very proud of her for this.

43573 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 17, #1033 of 1372 🔗

Long live you, your dauntless old dear and all who stand up to the
Poison Dwarfess.

43582 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Biker, 10, #1034 of 1372 🔗

Ditto my friend, she is not gonna break me

43587 ▶▶ Evelyn, replying to Biker, 10, #1035 of 1372 🔗

I certainly won’t be wearing one.

43662 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Evelyn, 12, #1036 of 1372 🔗

Neither will I! A very depressing visit to shops today : black masks are replicating; piles of fly tipped rubbish in 2 places-duly reported to council as ‘risk to public health’ -as when Elf and Safety are mentioned by council staff you have to be creative to get anything done!

On a happier note, to lighten my gloom,my first online groceries delivery was brought to my door by an extremely friendly and pleasant young man, who wasn’t wearing a mask and looked perfectly healthy and normal.

We exchanged a few pleasantries-as we used to back in the day before madness and paranoia took over.

But-no mask for me-never!

43664 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Biker, 9, #1037 of 1372 🔗

We’re proud of you and your indomitable family Biker; may the force be with you.

43559 Albie, replying to Albie, 20, #1039 of 1372 🔗


People yammering for us to be locked down lose jobs. You reap what you sow. I usually have sympathy over job cuts but not this time. They played their part in creating this travesty, people have been denied cancer treatment, saying farewell to loved ones etc etc. For what? Good luck signing on.

43694 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Albie, 3, #1040 of 1372 🔗

Exactly. They have been complicit in all this and for the misery being heaped on us egged by these idiots, they deserve to pay.

43560 Bruno, replying to Bruno, 8, #1041 of 1372 🔗

Noticed Mark Adams, CEO of major Community Care Homes charity, being totally scathing about Boris’s social care misspeak on BBC TV news just now. (Yes I know about you BBC refuseniks, I watch it so you don’t have to). Why is Sharma, the BUSINESS Secretary, being wheeled out to rewrite history ? (Mark Adams immediately quoted Orwell and Kafka, class). Where is Helen Whateley, the Social Care Minister? Oh I forgot, she’s even less convincing on camera than he is.

43564 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bruno, 11, #1042 of 1372 🔗

Boris is frit – he knows history will crush him and his reputation. And the sooner the better!

Meanwhile, they all go on about loss of freedom over in China; well, it may be a slight exaggeration of the situation here, but “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”

43570 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to IanE, 11, #1043 of 1372 🔗

Not so much a plank as a redwood trunk.

43594 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bruno, 5, #1044 of 1372 🔗

Sharma was also wheeled out on Sky with Kay Burley. She was rather ‘gentle’ with him, suspect because like the rest of us, she knows there is no point – he is so thick he doesn’t even know what he doesn’t know. An absolutely disgraceful comment from Boris that is indefensible.

43771 ▶▶▶ Michael C, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1045 of 1372 🔗

Agree that Johnson’s comments were stupid. Interesting though on Jeremy Vine this morning a number of people rang/emailed in saying that unfortunately there were a not inconsiderable number of care homes who did act as Johnson accuses. This controversy is likely to draw attention away from the pandemic’s real outrage – the pushing of untested patients on the care home system by the NHS.

43817 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Michael C, 1, #1046 of 1372 🔗

Sorry, no, that’s just one of the ‘pandemic’s real outrages’ in relation to care homes. Which also include precisely NOT encircling them with a ring of steel, a la Matt Hancock, NOT supplying them with tests, ditto adequate PPE … I could go on, especially as Matt Hancock is now peddling the line that no-one knew what to do – so care homes are all absolutely wonderful again(?!). Except, except, the information was already out there from Italy, Sweden, the Government did know what to do, but ignored even the SAGE recommendation that staff stick to working in one home, instead allowing agency workers to circulate…

43818 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1047 of 1372 🔗

Whether there’s any point or not, it’s not appropriate for journos to give ministers an easy ride! How much is he paid by the taxpayer for starters?

43580 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, 7, #1048 of 1372 🔗

These petitions need a big push. If you have already signed them, maybe you could share them?

End COVID-19 social distancing

Make the use of masks on public transport voluntary and not mandatory

OK, you might think the justification wording on these petitions could be better, but that shouldn’t stop you agreeing with the headline statements.

(RDawg created one re masks but I guess it may still be waiting for approval)

There are plenty of petitions wanting more restrictions – all doing much better. The pro-lockdown petition received over 400,000 signatures. My worry is that some politicians will look at these petitions as a gauge of public opinion (which would be great of course if ours were doing well).

43584 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Back To Normal, 7, #1049 of 1372 🔗

Thank you for bringing these to everyone’s attention. I’ve signed both. The mask one is definitely needed with the continued pressures.

43620 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to wendy, 2, #1050 of 1372 🔗


43595 ▶▶ wayno, replying to Back To Normal, #1051 of 1372 🔗


43608 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Back To Normal, 2, #1052 of 1372 🔗

It’s pointless, Simon Dolan’s challenge was easily quashed, petitions are being ignored. Society is being skillfully, cruelly manipulating to meet somebody’s ends.

43617 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #1053 of 1372 🔗

I hate to admit it, but I think you are right, totalitarianism has arrived and will be here for a long time.

43621 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #1054 of 1372 🔗

We can’t give up

43623 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Victoria, 4, #1055 of 1372 🔗

Then Rise Up, before it’s too late!

43720 ▶▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Winston Smith, 6, #1056 of 1372 🔗

I have to disagree. Remember that we don’t have any leadership in government right now – they are all followers. Boris’s top priority is his popularity and not the well-being of the country.

An example is the self-employed covid support scheme. That petition got over 600,000 signatures, and i believe that drove the government into implementing a scheme they didn’t initially want, and they said was not feasible.

43656 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #1057 of 1372 🔗


44097 ▶▶ gina, replying to Back To Normal, #1058 of 1372 🔗

Signed both – thanks for posting the links.

43591 wayno, replying to wayno, 1, #1059 of 1372 🔗

Im sure most on here will be aware of this document, but for those that have not read it, section 2 persuasion is particularly chilling. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/options-for-increasing-adherence-to-social-distancing-measures-22-march-2020

43856 ▶▶ Basics, replying to wayno, #1060 of 1372 🔗

A document stating an intention to increase tge threat levels indiviuals feel. Oh, and the manipulation of social shaming to have people behave as SAGE SPI-B think best. Is that the document ?

43592 Sam Vimes, 4, #1061 of 1372 🔗

Folks, please spare a thought. Yesterday was the end of the 14 day maximum incubation period after the Bournemouth beach ‘major incident’. Sadly, now, we will see thousands of deaths, just like we did after the hot weather, VE day parties and the blm (lower case intentional) riots.
Tragic loss of life that could have been prevented by simply giving up all your rights and staying in forever.

Anyway, visited a Wethy’s on Sunday. Guy at door wasn’t pushy, just explained ‘traffic flow’. I think the contact forms were there, but I didn’t really look and they weren’t mentioned at all. Misses used the sanitiser, I walked past it.

Pub was empty, we usually have to hunt for a table on Sunday. Asked the lad what Saturday night was like: “Dead”. General appearance not too forbidding, some perspex sceens between tables, just in case you accidentally stand up, turn round and spit at the people behind you.

There were seven of us in total in the upstairs room. Bar staff standing around with nowt to do. Told the lad “I havent got the app and I’m paying cash, ok?” “Fine.”, he said, from inside his perspex booth.

No beer, as I was driving, but prices pretty much where they used to be. Just a shame that Project Fear is keeping people away, although lack of numbers made it much easier to navigate.

Bar lad agreed that increased expense on ‘covid security’, coupled with lack of customers didn’t bode well for his job.
Pretty much a cheerful experience.

43593 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #1062 of 1372 🔗

The ‘R’ diagram. Just an idea.

We’ve all seen it – the three tier chain linked diagram showing how R 1+ passes exponentially.

I was considering the pubs of woe experiences on this thread with friends having fallen completely for the lies.

A countering diagram may help. A chain linked diagram spelling out the likelihood of first catching the damn thing, then getting the symptons, then needing hospital, then ICU, then the sad end.

The risk is so minimal. Such a diagram would really present a way to counter the fear. I believe people are personally scared rather than thinking of being scared they pass it onwards.

43598 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 5, #1063 of 1372 🔗

Excellent idea. Diagrams are good. Shame we don’t have a few rich benefactors on our side because with some of the information and intellects we have between us, and some professional help, and someone to buy media space (Facebook, TV ads, newspapers) our cause could advance. Imagine if we had someone like Cummings on our side.

Yes, some people are scared, some are scared to admit to themselves they have been had, and some are using it as a chance to virtue signal.

43597 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #1064 of 1372 🔗

I’ve had enough, it’s getting worse, the inexorable move compulsorily mask wearing and I’ve seen this – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52547885

I have no idea where this is going, but most people blissfully happy with it.

43615 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Winston Smith, 11, #1065 of 1372 🔗

Too many people are happy with it for my liking, but I can’t see the evidence for “most”. If “most” people wanted to wear masks, they would be doing so already, wouldn’t they? Hope I am not deluding myself.

43631 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Julian, 3, #1066 of 1372 🔗

That’s our perception too and we hope we’re not deluding ourselves!

43660 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Julian, 7, #1067 of 1372 🔗

In my office of 8 I’m the only one not on board with masks, although they all went quiet when I pointed out the actual numbers and asked them to justify things on any logical grounds. Not afraid to stand my ground when I know i’m right.

Amongst family, myself and my dad are two vs 9 close relatives who are all on board with lockdown, masks etc

Amongst extended friends groups (cycling club, mates of many years), myself and wife along with 1 couple are in the small minority against it all.

My small experience is that we are very much the minority, unfortunately.

43679 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark II, #1068 of 1372 🔗

There may be more who are OK with masks indoors, but hardly anyone wears a mask outdoors and then they go shopping, without a mask.

43681 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Julian, 2, #1069 of 1372 🔗

It’s a small step, if they’re open to being told to, then they will do. I don’t see mass disobedience if it was made compulsory, too many non-thinkers out there.

But then I am fully in defeatist mode today so maybe I’ll be more optimistic tomorrow

43654 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Winston Smith, 7, #1070 of 1372 🔗

I obviously don’t have the numbers to back me up but it’s possible that we are being led to believe that “most” people accept what is going on as part of the propaganda to keep everyone compliant.

If everyone thinks that “most” people agree with it then they are more likely to go along with “most” people.

43688 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1071 of 1372 🔗

See Mark II’s comments above, I’m in defeatist mode today too. I predicted this in March if the lockdown happened, I just didn’t think it would go on so long and deep.

43707 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, #1072 of 1372 🔗

Exactly, suspect you are (unfortunately) right..

43813 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1073 of 1372 🔗

Stop it guys! You’re starting to create a consensus of despondency here. That won’t help anyone!

43811 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Winston Smith, #1074 of 1372 🔗

The Committee is chaired by The Rt Hon. the Lord Deben and is made up of experts in the fields of climate change science, economics, behavioural science, business and industry. Committee members have a duty to:

  • act impartially and objectively
  • avoid conflicts of interest

The Committee is also supported by the Secretariat.

43957 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1075 of 1372 🔗

Lord Deben? Look him up -John Selwyn Gummer that was. Raving climate change advocate, part of the IPCC, snout well into the green trough with businesses he is linked to taking lots of green grants etc.

Not exactly unbiased.

43606 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #1077 of 1372 🔗

I really hope we get a warm weekend in Scotland and as callous as it sounds really hope somebody passes out or has an accident whilst wearing their state sanctioned mask.

43610 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to stefarm, 6, #1078 of 1372 🔗

But you won’t hear about it, or you will, but it will be death linked to a new, more deadly form of Covid.

43612 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1079 of 1372 🔗

Silly me 🤭 ….#3rd wave

43618 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1080 of 1372 🔗

No they’ll simply write endless articles on how to wear a mask safely.

43614 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to stefarm, 11, #1081 of 1372 🔗

Well, yes – but could it, please, please, please be Wee Krankie???

43616 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 5, #1082 of 1372 🔗

In my quick chats to shop staff I hsve been raising this very point and asking them to keep an eye on frail people. It’s a real concern. I’ve helped two oldersters in difficulty already with masks.

43619 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 7, #1083 of 1372 🔗

This is a question I thought of asking my local supermarket manager, what if any, plans are in place to provide first aid assistance if somebody has an accident, asthma/panic attack, seizure. Any risk assessment, sufficient trained first aiders???

43655 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stefarm, 2, #1084 of 1372 🔗

And would the firm’s insurance cover this?

43808 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendyk, #1085 of 1372 🔗

Surely that only applies if the wearer is sporting the mask because of shop policy rather than from their own volition?

43669 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to stefarm, 2, #1086 of 1372 🔗

No one will give you first aid any more because of covid…

43729 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 3, #1087 of 1372 🔗

Ditto that to the metal sheep market corrals at some entrances. Some snake back and forth so much that if there were to be a panic – fire, terror – its clear that people would have difficulty to escape. I feel vulnerable being corralled especially and terror level dark orange or whatever we are at. Traffic-lightitis is a sign of the true skeptic.

43807 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1088 of 1372 🔗

Police said they had recorded 840 fights in June, …… All but one of the 43 perpetrators facing legal action were men, Yonhap said, adding that most were in their 50s and 60s.

Not exactly young yobs then!

Experts have warned that wearing masks in extreme heat could cause breathing difficulties, raised heart rates and dehydration.

This is great stuff! Mask-wearing now being reported – in the Grad!! – to pose many more dangerous threats than an attenuating flu virus.

43609 Nobody2020, 10, #1089 of 1372 🔗

Just dug up this beauty of a quote from Monty Python:

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise, fear and surprise; two chief weapons, fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency! Er, among our chief weapons are: fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, and near fanatical devotion to the Pope! Um, I’ll come in again…”

43625 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #1090 of 1372 🔗

It is likely that at least some of us have a level of immunity gained from past exposure to previous coronavirus.

The thinking at the moment is to have zero exposure to COVID-19.

Zero exposure means zero potential immunity in the future.

So when the next coronavirus comes along we will be at more risk and the results of a pandemic/epidemic will be even worse.

Therefore stricter measures will be required to ensure zero exposure.

Rinse, repeat…

43630 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #1091 of 1372 🔗

… and build your immune systems (fresh air, good healthy food, sunshine/vitamin D, lower stress levels and be happy). There are many other pathogens that we are exposed to everyday and our immune systems protect us.

43640 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1092 of 1372 🔗

Yes, it certainly is the worst possible strategy given the growing scientific consensus for cross-immunity within the coronavirus family, if not other viruses. The worst possible thing you could do is stop young people getting this virus now, when it is only likely to lead to poor outcomes in a small number of situations/circumstances (old age, underlying health conditions). But, given the lack of analytical ability with the government, and the lack of genuine scientific and medical experience within the movers and shakers in SAGE, I fear your ‘rinse and repeat’ will trump rationality.

43629 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 12, #1093 of 1372 🔗

Visited two local charity shops earlier, both urging people to use hand sanitiser when entering. Politely declined, they did not know how to react.

The one said that it was Government rules, a colleague then said that it was only guidelines. The other one said it was for their safety as well, told them that they are welcome to chuck me out, then said that I can continue with my ‘shopping’.

43647 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Victoria, 2, #1094 of 1372 🔗

Thing is on the hand washing/sanitiser, I can’t see any downside to shops forever sticking a hand sanitiser at entrances. The issue is with trying to force it, we are supposed to be free to make our own choices – though I’m not sure why you’d specifically go out of your way to avoid using it, unless you had previously just done it and therefore didn’t need to, or you have a skin condition etc – in which case the freedom to not do it and not feel pressured is crucial. Unlike mask wearing there’s no element of oppression, forcing dress code on us or discomfort – as long as it’s just an option

43676 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark II, 10, #1095 of 1372 🔗

Most cheap santizers contains many undesirable chemicals that is absorbed by your body (think of nicotine patches that is absorbed into your body).

 Always read ingredient list on sanitisers (any other products) before deciding too use it – Informed Decision

43686 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mark II, 9, #1096 of 1372 🔗

I know it’s The Sun, but:


It’s definitely something to be wary of.

At the end of the day, the sanitiser is a chemical cocktail, some of which will be absorbed into your body – child or not.

43725 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tenchy, #1097 of 1372 🔗

Just shows you can flog any old rubbish in the US – this was a report from the US CDC covering incidents there 2011-2014.

43919 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Mark II, #1098 of 1372 🔗

I don`t know why you would choose to use it? who wants unpleasant chemicals on their hands?

43632 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1099 of 1372 🔗

Where are we with PCR testing? This article (that someone here linked to)…

… says

Even if the infectious viri are long dead, a corona test can come back positive, because the PCR method multiplies even a tiny fraction of the viral genetic material enough [to be detected]

It also says that a person without symptoms cannot infect anyone else – they do not actually have the active disease. If they had the disease, they had some symptoms:

…those afflicted by Covid-19 might not remember that initial scratchy throat and then go on to claim that they didn’t have any symptoms just a few days ago. But for doctors and virologists to twist this into a story of “healthy” sick people, which stokes panic and was often given as a reason for stricter lockdown measures, just shows how bad the joke really is. At least the WHO didn’t accept the claim of asymptomatic infections and even challenges this claim on its website.

Both these related points ‘ring true’ to me. The implications are huge.

43637 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #1100 of 1372 🔗

It’s not about ‘the virus’, it’s about money and control. ‘The virus’ is just the bogey man to instill fear, like the Jews in 1930’s Germany

43635 Bella, replying to Bella, 21, #1101 of 1372 🔗

Just had a phone consultation with a GP who specialises in dermatology. He asked me how I was coping during the whole Covid thing. I gave him the standard LS line and he was quite vehement that if we hadn’t locked down the death toll would have been unbelievable. He had been in London and it was terrible blah blah blah. Doctors overrun with exhaustion blah blah blah. He was quite pissed off that I didn’t agree with him and when I gave him all the figures etc and suggested the peak was before the Lockdown I think he had a hard time keeping his cool. And then we got onto face masks and he said that there was a lot of evidence that they reduced infection (Eeek, where are they getting these people from? All toeing the party line. Why doesn’t a doctor know face masks are useless? Are they part of the – unconscious – conspiracy? If a doctor says face masks work then your average bod is not going to argue.) Needless to say no progress on my condition for which I also had a phone consultation in April, downgraded from a face to face appointment. If a doctor accepts this propaganda have we, have all the specialists, got it wrong? Had to slip into Facebook to leave someone a message (don’t use it much now) – masses of postings about people who have tested positive since Saturday night pub outings. Hang on, it’s only bloody Tuesday morning – where have they suddenly got all these tests from? Did they all have kits at home? Or did they all go out en masse yesterday to testing centres? And when I had the temerity to suggest that they may have been positive before Saturday I got abuse. Sheesh, I give up.

43643 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bella, 14, #1102 of 1372 🔗

Quite something for the Doctor to try the emotional line, poor docs exhausted etc – I thought doctors were always overworked and exhausted? It’s important to have the facts to hand, and I hope you were able to point out to him that they haven’t been able to prove, in lab or real world tests, any tangible benefits to mask wearing that would come close to justifying compulsory mask wearing for the general population.

Another a related note – it’s a bit tired hearing about them being heroes – I am extremely grateful to anyone who opts to go into the medical profession and thus look after the general population, I will treat them with respect and courtesy on every visit.

But this ‘NHS heroes’ thing is vomit inducing, they _chose_ to go into medicine, and its part of their jobs to put themselves on ‘the front line’ every day, they get paid to do so. The fact that nurses and others in the sector are most certainly in lots of cases underpaid is a travesty, but it also doesn’t make them heroes.

43649 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark II, 11, #1103 of 1372 🔗

If everybody is a hero then no-one is a hero.

Overuse of the Hero word has devalued it.

43652 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Mark II, 14, #1104 of 1372 🔗

I did try and point out that I had spent the best part of the last three months – at the expense of what I am supposed to be doing, but I’m self-employed and the only casualty is me – researching all this, including face masks. It cut no ice with him whatsoever. He was the expert and I was the lay person. Incidentally, I agree, GPs aren’t putting themselves on the line, the surgery is closed for personal visits. As I posted previously the first lot to run for the hills were GPs, dentists and the churches. All public servants in a way.

43750 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Bella, 11, #1105 of 1372 🔗

My surgery is open. I telephone and assess about 40 patients a day . The telephone consults can last anything from 3 minutes to 30 minutes. I also see about 10 patients in the surgery . I have been working throughout and out of hours as well .

43773 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #1106 of 1372 🔗

Clearly, you’re “one of the good ones” Peter!

43657 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark II, 9, #1107 of 1372 🔗

Exactly. Are these the same doctors who refuse to work weekends but expect others to do so …?

43671 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to kh1485, 9, #1108 of 1372 🔗

What upsets me most is that my surgery has firmly locked the front gate and the only way to contact them is by phone. Fortunately not needed to do that as have been fit and well but still don’t know the results of my blood tests in April since they won’t show them in my online records. If the NHS show they care they should at least make themselves accessible, locking the door is giving the message they don’t want to know.

43678 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to davews, 9, #1109 of 1372 🔗

Ours haven’t physically locked, but you can no longer just book an appointment. Got to fill out some ridiculous AI driven (i’m a programmer, so I’m completely open to use of software where useful and logical) questionnaire that gets longer and longer the more vague your symptoms, instead – it’s become a real joke how many public services have been cut back to ‘support the fight against coronavirus’. Last I checked, I was still paying full income tax and full council tax, but now I can’t use half the council facilities or half the national facilities…

43775 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to davews, 1, #1110 of 1372 🔗

Message received loud and clear!

43666 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bella, #1111 of 1372 🔗

Well done!

43699 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella, 6, #1112 of 1372 🔗

This sparkler sounds like the quack who hosts a message board that my husband used to frequent. It used to be good – ironically holding the MSM to account. Now, all dissent to the ‘New Normal’ is ruthlessley attacked and I think my OH is not alone in having sacked it after several fruitless and rancorous run-ins with the host. Granted, the doc was apparently on the ‘front-line’ in London and got a bad dose of CV19 but it seems to have turned him in the ultimate Lockdown Zealot. Thanks to him we looked elsewhere for information and discussion (e.g. here!) and have never looked back!

He also sounds very like my own quack and I’m very glad to have avoided needing to consult him since the lock-up. In 2018, being asthmatic, I bowed to practice pressure to have the flu jab. It made me ill for 3 days and 2019 was the worst year I have ever had for chest infections; I had 3, each one worse than the last.

In December 2019, I got bronchitis (?) so badly my OH got the 111 ambulance for me at one point; he got ill 3 weeks later and we still have residual coughs. I was at the docs a couple of times and was given antibiotics because I was at risk of pneumonia. The GP did his damndest to get me to have a flu jab and was practically contemptuous when I kept refusing it. Given what we now know about last year’s flu jab, I am mightily relieved that I stood firm – I could have been much worse than I was. In May, the practice rang me up and offered me a pneumonia jab. I declined.

Anyway, we had just about recovered when the shitstorm arrived. We decided we’d get out walking as much as possible (we’re lucky to live in the High Peak) and we started using our bikes much more The mandatory muzzles on buses and trains have meant that our only escape from here is under our own steam. We also started intermittent fasting in early March (I have read since that IF helps the immune system) and we have not been so slim and fit for years. Weirdly the coughs don’t actually bother us at all, even though we can’t shift them.

I wish you good luck with your health Bella – is it anything that alternative medicine might be able to help with?

Sometimes I think we’re better off without the NHS but, in fairness, my OH would almost certainly have died of leukaemia in 2015 if it hadn’t been for chemotherapy. We await with kindly interest what will happen when it inevitably needs treating again in a few years!

43785 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bella, 2, #1113 of 1372 🔗

Ayn Rand had a great saying that clearly annoyed intellectuals when she said it “Check your premises”

You don’t have to be an expert to apply common sense. Always always ask how did they measure that in the first place? What assumptions have gone into that?

I’ve spent almost 20 years in science and engineering, a lot of which is in validation and verification, along with trying to measure things that are very hard to measure.

It all comes down to having the right tools (physically and mentally) for the job

43795 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mhcp, 1, #1114 of 1372 🔗

Mentally is a big problem, unfortunately.

43641 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #1115 of 1372 🔗


Daily Mirror owner Reach to cut 550 jobs as sales fall

This was their front page on 23rd March: comment image


43644 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #1116 of 1372 🔗

Karma indeed. That headline is the worst type of irresponsibility.

43653 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #1117 of 1372 🔗

True karma would be if they went out of business altogether.

43665 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Invunche, 2, #1118 of 1372 🔗

So that is who Reach are. Get a cookies popup from them whenever I look at our local newspaper (now produced in an office somewhere up the country and they know absolutely nothing about our local area..). Big banner at the bottom claiming ‘times are hard for our industry’ and pleading for money. 90% COVID scare stories.

43661 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #1119 of 1372 🔗

Nearly had a heart attack there, before I realised this was from back in March and not today’s headline!

43718 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #1120 of 1372 🔗

Let them burn. And the journalists responsible enjoy your comeuppence. Needing a job or doing your job is no excuse, you are bright enough and cynical enough to have recognised the evil in the messages you’ve been pumping. Not other people but you – you.

Perhaps those talents and skills you have that are now free can be employed to make amends for your collusion in fearing the public of your own nation.

43781 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Basics, #1121 of 1372 🔗

Learn to code for them then!

43646 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 2, #1122 of 1372 🔗

I take it you have all seen this one?


Herd immunity only occurs when 70-90% of the population are infected!

Apologies for the link to a pornography site.

To quote from the old Fairport song ‘Meet on the Ledge’

The way is up along the road, the air is growing thin

Too many friends who tried, blown off this mountain with the wind

If that is all too depressing for you try this:


43670 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 1, #1123 of 1372 🔗

And if you are thinking of voting labour at the next election (if there ever is one, it may well be cancelled by the 18th wave).


43714 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Old Bill, 4, #1125 of 1372 🔗

COVID-19 safety: Around the world, many of the elderly can’t be bothered The population most at risk isn’t listening to public health experts.
It’s called wisdom!

They’re going to want to squeeze every last drop out of life while they’re still fit enough to do so – and while their friends are still here to enjoy it with!

43741 ▶▶ Bobblybob, replying to Old Bill, #1126 of 1372 🔗

More BBC nonsense. Here’s an argument it’s more like 10-20%, you know, like a regular virus…

43658 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 19, #1127 of 1372 🔗


Great comment on this article about Israel.

“Maybe, just maybe, the virus does its own thing regardless of state interventions. It arrives, it does its worst and then it dies out.

Lockdown, no lockdown, border controls, social distancing, mask wearing and so on – all irrelevant. Wash your hands and protect the vulnerable.

A virus will do what a virus does.”

43677 ▶▶ Edna, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1128 of 1372 🔗

If only the governments of the world would read that comment and see the light! They might then stop trying to turn every country into a totalitarian state.

43685 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Edna, 7, #1129 of 1372 🔗

They don’t want to see the light, that’s the point. Totalitarianism is darkness.

43692 ▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Bella, 9, #1130 of 1372 🔗

More like totalitarianism is a wet dream for them. Bastards.

43684 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #1131 of 1372 🔗

Excellent comment.That’s what many Asian countries did with Sars – no lockdown, no mandatory mask wearing but they stepped up on the hand washing campaign and implemented huge fines on spitting as well as protecting the vulnerable (albeit this was a bit delayed).

Then the virus just petered out and disappeared.

43663 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 13, #1132 of 1372 🔗

We have had the details from ECB on opening our cricket club again and the steps needed.

ECB docs
Getting your club ready.
A summary:
Pages of shit that no club can comply with.
You can play cricket but the buck stops with you is the message.
They have entirely lost the plot.
Deaths in UK yesterday 16 yet we have got to turn the club into a covid free space station.
Even stuff about the length of the grass that covid likes to hide in!!

43672 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1133 of 1372 🔗

Our tennis club was like that but it’s basically back to normal now, save for a couple of restrictions more on the social than sporting side.

43705 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1135 of 1372 🔗

It’s absolutely peppered with the word guidance .
Much of it – like the holes in the grass – are basic H&S stuff.

Make sure you understand what the legislation is, as opposed to mere guidance, then act accordingly.

43735 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1136 of 1372 🔗

At least you wont have to ” clean your organs ” before and after use as they are asked to in the reopened churches.

43700 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1137 of 1372 🔗

You can play cricket but the buck stops with you is the message.

If that’s true, surely it means you can take all the nitty gritty as mere guidelines for ideal practice and proceed to ignore them?

43708 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cheezilla, #1138 of 1372 🔗

In practice, likely to depend on club’s insurers and their risk consultant, or club may use an independent H&S consultancy.

43727 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Bruno, 3, #1139 of 1372 🔗

Hope the insurers don’t find out about 90mph deliveries from a few yards away.

43801 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #1140 of 1372 🔗

Exactly! W hen this comes up in a real life situation, I have been quoting an old comment from someone else here:
‘Insurance against getting covid claims???? Really????? How on earth would ANYBODY be able to proove they got covids off a swing or in a specific pub, from a book in a shop, or a pair of trowsers in H&M or whatever? How could anybody even THINK this is a thing to even consider as a possibility. Totally mental.’
Many thanks, sorry I can’t remember their handle!

44045 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sylvie, #1141 of 1372 🔗

You would then also need insurance against flu, the common cold, diarrhea and sickness, norovirus, measles, mumos, TB, athletes foot, conjunctivitis, etc.

Never happend before, and absolutely no sensible reason for it to happen now. But I do say sensible and that seems to have been completely lost at the mo.

43793 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, #1142 of 1372 🔗

Fingers crossed!

43687 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1143 of 1372 🔗

Apologies if this is already posted below, or from another publication, but – they are not going to let this go until we’re all muzzled up, everywhere! This joker wants us to wear one in all public “spaces” [i.e. places]


Edit: I originally described him as a “moron” in this post, then I saw this:
Okay, so he’s not a moron, he’s very clever, but he’s definitely misguided on this issue.

43696 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1144 of 1372 🔗

Tenchy, we posted the same bad news at about the same time but from different sources!
Notice it’s the Beeb and the Grad doing their usual propaganda stuff.
Those of you who get the other dailies, can you keep an eye out for this please.

43710 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Tenchy, 11, #1145 of 1372 🔗

This would be the president of the same Royal Society that refuses to engage with Nobel Laureate Prof Michael Levitt’s research. As I once heard a doctor say, in another context,, ‘Where are their morals?’

I had hoped that even our lot wouldn’t follow ‘Wee Krankie’ and the most extreme US state governors down the mandatory muzzle route but now I’m not so sure.

This is the real 2nd wave: compulsory compliance with a pack of lies and visible humiliation for all.

43690 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 21, #1146 of 1372 🔗

Latest part of the psyop campaign:


Just as the MSM pressured the sheep to demand lockdown, now they’re working towards the public demanding mandatory muzzle-wearing.

No opportunity for comments, so nowhere to post scientific evidence to disprove the “science” provided here.

The comparison with acceptance of seat belts is such a disgraceful red herring!


43693 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #1147 of 1372 🔗

And even worse, is the comparison with drink driving. Which scumbag wrote this?

43697 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1148 of 1372 🔗

Obviously not someone who’s ever known anyone killed by a drunk driver 🙁

43695 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1149 of 1372 🔗

It’s going to happen. Despite logic, common sense, science. The media via the general public are the tail wagging the government dog again.

43711 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to The Spingler, 1, #1150 of 1372 🔗


43702 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #1151 of 1372 🔗

National newspapers have essentially become the propaganda arm of the UK government over the past 4 months. Articles such as this are sickening as are all the government adverts saying wear a mask to ‘protect us’ with photos of sad looking elderly people. They seem to want us to be completely subservient to their every command.

43691 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 19, #1152 of 1372 🔗

Just been to our city centre today for the first time in four months. What a dystopian experience. The large, spacious shopping centre had more people standing in doorways, counting people in and out, than there were customers present. It is owned by a company that has just gone into receivership-is it any wonder? You just want to enter and leave as quickly as possible.
The indoor market was even worse-many stalls not open and some with notices saying they had closed for good because of the much lower footfall and because our crazy council has insisted on them paying full rent throughout all of this. I can see the market closing permanently in the near future.
Outside Primark there was still the airport queuing system with railings, but no queue at all. It was pouring with rain so my husband approached the camp commandant outside and made a helpful(!) suggestion that when there was no queue, they might leave a gap for people to take a short cut, in order to save them getting wet, instead of having to manoeuvre their way around the barriers. I’m afraid his suggestion was met with a blank stare. Is an absence of common sense another symptom of Covid do you think? Anyway, we took our custom elsewhere.

43713 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Margaret, 16, #1153 of 1372 🔗

It is truly dystopian. I walked down Oxford Street on Saturday afternoon. A few shops had queues but many stores were completely deserted apart from staff. Its absolute madness that the government can’t see what is going on. I keep looking at the official figures and wondering how the hell does this justify the complete destruction of the economy and highly invasive restrictions on civil liberties. I can only assume it is so they can have their ‘global reset’.

43716 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Darryl, 11, #1154 of 1372 🔗

It is the only explanation 😡 🤬

43722 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Darryl, 8, #1155 of 1372 🔗

I am 100% convinced that the Government can see what is going on and that your last sentence is also 100% correct. (Plus mandatory vaccination and surveillance of course)

43756 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Darryl, 10, #1156 of 1372 🔗

A former colleague of mine said the same thing – she went with a friend down Oxford Street recently and while many of the shops were open they were virtually dead save for a few, The longer we have this insanity the more shops will go bust.

43789 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Darryl, 7, #1157 of 1372 🔗

Like others here, I fully agree with your sentiments in this post. You walk down Oxford Street and see evidence of a society destroyed by totalitarianism. Unfortunately, government advisors walk down the same street and see evidence of a society paralysed by fear of this dreadful disease that has killed [Insert your preferred statistic here] people only yesterday and take the message that the measures they have introduced to ‘keep people safe’ are not enough and need to be strengthened further. Hence masks outdoors will be forcibly imposed in the near future.
See you all in jail.

43726 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Margaret, 13, #1158 of 1372 🔗

I went to 2 places where there is hope yesterday. One the local test centre where I will be doing voluntary marshalling. The council paid marshals have a portacabin for rest breaks and they invited me to make a coffee. I was delighted to find a filthy sink surrounded by dirty mugs! Absolutely no notice was being taken to sterilise cups, not use each other’s cups, use hand sanitiser. The masks that were being worn were filthy. It was great and very encouraging!

Later I went to a camping shop, better not give their name unless they are reported. A notice at the door about distancing and voluntary hand sanitiser. No masks on staff or customers. No restrictions on touching or on trying on, can sit in the tents, snuggle into a sleeping bag to try if for fit, got down a camping mat and put it on the floor and lay on it. No one seemed worried about customers being dirty infested things. There is hope.

43860 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to wendy, 6, #1159 of 1372 🔗

That’s great news, Wendy. We’ve just been to our local cafe which only reopened yesterday and it felt absolutely ………………………normal! It was quite busy but we had a good chat with the owner and her assistant when everyone had left.
On a more depressing note, my dearest friend from university days, eons ago, has just come out to me as a believer in lockdown. It seems that her views have been coloured by a family member working for the NHS in the London “war zone” during March and by a few other personal, but certainly not fatal, “know someone who’s had it” experiences. I feel more saddened by her take on this situation than I can say.

43912 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Margaret, 3, #1160 of 1372 🔗

It is incredibly depressing when people one considered rational, intelligent people turn out to be believers isn`t it. I feel for you.

43990 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, #1161 of 1372 🔗

I’m in a similar situation in that my landlord’s daughter works on the Covid ward here in Uppsala and recounts very sad stories, including people of relatively young ages (50-60) who have died. However one of these had recently had a (successful) lung transplant so obviously had compromised immunity.
I think the reason these people are hard to convince, is that they only see the very acute (and tragic) cases, where people are in a life-threatening condition, so obviously their opinions as to the seriousness of the virus are influenced by this. They never meet people with mild infections…

43698 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #1162 of 1372 🔗

Independent Sage will be discussing “zero covid-19 uk” at 2pm. I may watch it for research purposes.


43730 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1163 of 1372 🔗

You mean ” dress up box ” SAGE . Really just a group of retired political loones some of whom are clearly demented.

43736 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #1164 of 1372 🔗

And very bitter and twisted that their prior endeavours were not even recognised by the Nobel committee (in the case of David King), or real SAGE (most of the rest of them). They are largely Marxist-leaning in their political affiliations too, as pointed out by Guido several weeks ago.

43737 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1165 of 1372 🔗

If anyone has some time it may be worth getting on the comments and firing off some sceptical views

43770 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #1166 of 1372 🔗

Dr Wrapperband sounds a right twerp – or he’s 77th B.

43768 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #1167 of 1372 🔗

Subtext: What’s next on the agenda to keep the ftupid suckers down?

43780 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1168 of 1372 🔗

I just posted elsewhere that eradication of the virus is a convenient way of sidestepping the do lockdowns work argument.

43791 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1169 of 1372 🔗

Especially as attempted eradication is pointless!

43858 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1170 of 1372 🔗

Taking one for the team watching this and most people commenting are pro lockdown/mask. It’s not really much of a debate, more of an echo chamber.

43703 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #1171 of 1372 🔗

Greetings Fellow Sceptics!

I have posted my correspondence with the National Gallery over their reopening protocols and I received my reply today.


Thank you for your response.

I would like to assure you that no member of the Gallery team would ever refuse entry for those not wearing a mask or harass anyone in the Gallery space be it a visitor or a colleague. We recognise that there are both physical and psychological reasons why people would choose not wear a mask, hence why we have not made it mandatory, it is just a recommendation. This recommendation is in line with advice from the Government and PHE.

The Gallery’s risk assessment is online here- https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/media/32217/coronavirus-covid-19-risk-assessment.pdf and we also have an FAQ page which directly relates to the reopening of the Gallery- https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/visiting/reopening-faqs

I am really sorry to hear that you wish to cancel your Membership. I have made the relevant amendments to your record and cancelled your future renewal. We also recommend that you cancel your direct debit instruction directly with your bank. I am afraid we are unable to offer a partial refund for the closure period.

If you have any further questions or comments about visiting the Gallery, please do get in touch with my colleague XXXXXXXXXXXX, Customer Experience and Operations Manager, who I have included in this email.

Once again I am very sorry that you are cancelling your Membership and would like to thank you for supporting us over these past years.

with best wishes,

At the moment, I am crafting my reply. I have reached the point where engaging with this lot is like trying to engage with Bernini’s statues at St Peter’s!

43709 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1172 of 1372 🔗

Thanks for corresponding and posting. Useful info.

43717 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #1173 of 1372 🔗

You’re welcome. I’ll be posting my reply as soon as I send it off.

43766 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #1174 of 1372 🔗

You did get a clear statement that masks are not mandatory. That’s a good start.
Needs someone to stand outside with a good old-fashioned sandwich board, advising customers before they go in!

43803 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1175 of 1372 🔗

Plus don’t forget the crucial message that masks are also hazardous to a person’s health.

43804 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1176 of 1372 🔗

Much like contacting one’s MP. One could pretty much summarise the typical response :-

“Thanks for contacting me/us with your concern. We are of course following all the expert advice and you, in your deep ignorance are wrong. Bye.”

43816 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, 4, #1177 of 1372 🔗

Hence the boycott. As much I enjoy going to the National Gallery, I am not standing for this nonsense and will stay away until this is all over.

And I have cancelled my membership as well.

43848 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #1178 of 1372 🔗

Here’s the reply that I’ve sent off:


Thank you very much for your reply and clarification.

I understand that these measures are needed to be in place to satisfy the relevant authorities in order for the National Gallery to reopen. However, I believe that these are over the top and disproportionate responses to a virus that has been in retreat for a while now. People go to places such as yours to be entertained, educated, exposed to beauty and above all to forget one’s problems even for a short while. Timed entries, pre-booking, sanitisers, queues, one-way systems and masks are reminders of what is increasingly becoming a dystopian and depressing present that serve to remind the public that they are lepers who need to be disinfected before they enter your space.

I stand by my boycott and will only visit again once all these “social distancing” and “safety” measures have been abolished.

Thank you as well for cancelling any future renewals and I have done the same for my direct debit.

I wish you and the Membership team well.

Yours sincerely,
etc, etc….

43706 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 25, #1179 of 1372 🔗

The surge leading to full lockdown in Melbourne is 191 cases in a city of 5 million. Apparently that number is too many to track and trace. According to the DT, Professor Raina MacIntyre, head of the Biosecurity Program at the Kirby Institute at the University of New South Wales said “It is not an option to take the Swedish option – that has been a failure, and they failed abjectly to achieve herd immunity, because they followed a pseudoscientific theory that was never achievable. All they achieved was mass death, overwhelmed hospitals and reportedly, euthanasia of infected old and frail people.”

Mass death? Overwhelmed hospitals and alleged euthanasia? I think Sweden needs to be starting libel action – seriously, she is supposed to be a scientist?

43721 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1180 of 1372 🔗

Sounds more like the Philosophy Department of the University of Woolamaloo. Swedes are pretty hard core and retained compulsory sterilisation into 70s but euthanasia definitely a step too far. Power has clearly driven the poor woman insane.

43728 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 8, #1181 of 1372 🔗

You would think she’d at least look at the stats. Infections per head of population in Sweden lower than in Peru with one of the strictest and earliest lockdowns in the world. Deaths per head in Sweden lower than Spain with one of the strictest lockdowns in the world. Is anyone is Australia challenging her I wonder?

43760 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to The Spingler, 3, #1182 of 1372 🔗

Today’s stats from Sweden (as updated this morning):
Numbers in hospital down by 99 since last week, to a total of 668.
Of which 125 are in intensive care, down by 4 since last week.

They give out figures only twice a week now, and a total of 13 have been added to the deaths since then (but that does not necessarily mean they actually died in the last week, just that their deaths have reached the statisticians since the last announcement).

Can’t find a new cases update for this week, but it seems to be running at around 750+ per day looking at last week – but note that these people are clearly not ill enough to be admitted to hospital, since those numbers are falling, as they have been for some time now.

43723 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to The Spingler, 12, #1183 of 1372 🔗

An essay could be written on this with paragraph headings, group think, hysteria, Dianafication, media hysteria, social media,and dumbing down of tertiary education.

43898 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #1184 of 1372 🔗

Dianafication was certainly a key moment in the pivot to the substitution of emotion for reason and evidence.

43734 ▶▶ Julian, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1185 of 1372 🔗

This is an interesting piece regarding Swedish policy, I guess written by a Swede, in a Swedish publication I know nothing about


The English translation from Google is reasonably easy to follow.

The writer complains about Sweden having a higher death toll than China, that to achieve herd immunity would require 60% to be infected and hundreds of millions dead, and that the “mounting Swedish death toll” has made Sweden a pariah nation. The piece is dated yesterday. He doesn’t seem to have noticed that people have stopped dying of covid-19 in Sweden and that this year’s mortality will end up being well within normal parameters.

Difficult to fathom.

43755 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 3, #1186 of 1372 🔗

The comments to that article are interesting – a lot of anti-lockdowners there!
Julian (or indeed anyone else here), if you ever want anything translated from Swedish, give me a shout..

43832 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Carrie, 1, #1187 of 1372 🔗

Thanks. Glad there were lots of anti-lockdowners in the comments.

43761 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 1, #1188 of 1372 🔗

Sounds like propaganda. Find out who’s funding him and you’ll know for sure.

43778 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 2, #1189 of 1372 🔗

If it is this Stefan headland then I’m not too sure why he thinks he knows more than Johan Giesecke looking at his biography:

Stefan Hedlund is Professor of Russian and East European Studies at Uppsala University and Research Director at the UCRS Centre for Russian and Eurasian Studies. His main research focus is on neo-institutional theory. He has written extensively on institutional development and attempted institutional reform in Russia, from Kievan Rus up to the present.

43805 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, #1190 of 1372 🔗

It’s his opinion of course which he’s perfectly entitled to. But how does he rationalise the fact that Brazil is not seeing hundreds of millions dead when they have no lockdown? The death toll in Brazil when extrapolated across the world does not come anywhere near hundreds of millions dead either.

43740 ▶▶ Bella, replying to The Spingler, 4, #1191 of 1372 🔗

Lies, lies and more lies. Why would they keep on lying unless there were a (not so) hidden agenda?

43779 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark B, #1193 of 1372 🔗

The Nordic comparison with Scotland is interesting. My take from it would be rather than argue that Lockdown doesn’t work the Scottish Government are now going for eradication of the virus to avoid the argument altogether.

At least that’s what I would advise if I was a government spin doctor.

43751 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to The Spingler, 6, #1194 of 1372 🔗

State Premier Daniel Andrews: (my emphasis) “These are unsustainably high numbers [ about 700 cases in the last seven days – but how many are in hospital? ], It will be very challenging. No-one wanted to be in this position. I know there will be enormous amounts of damage that will be done because of this . It will be very challenging.”

Well don’t bloody do it then!

43754 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1195 of 1372 🔗

Recognise the name on one of her joint funding applications!

2009-2012 ARC Linkage Grant # LP0990749
Investigators Prof CR MacIntyre; Prof DE Dwyer; A/Prof PT Nga; Prof NM Ferguson; A/Prof M McLaws; Prof L Maher; Dr H Seale; Dr JG Wood; Dr AT Newall
Subject Economic, social and cross cultural issues in non pharmaceutical protection of front line responders to pandemic influenza and emerging infections.


43798 ▶▶ IanE, replying to The Spingler, 2, #1196 of 1372 🔗

Well, if Sweden caused mass deaths, what happened in the UK where deaths per million are considerably higher than in of Sweden!

43802 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IanE, 1, #1197 of 1372 🔗

Ah but the word trickery here is that by doing something (anything would have sufficed) the UK can say lives were saved.

Actions save lives, non actions cause death.

43733 Roadrash, replying to Roadrash, 6, #1198 of 1372 🔗

Been following the site for months and never commented before but I’m really down at the moment. I feel as if the sceptics are losing and there is no end in sight to the draconian sanctions introduced. It seems to be like a religion. It doesn’t matter how many facts or statistics I quote the majority just don’t want to know or listen. I’m worried for my kid’s future with rising unemployment, fewer opportunities and restrictions on all those freedoms we all used to take for granted. Just simple things like socialising and meeting new people including potential partners.

My eldest is at the point whether he needs to decide whether to go into university or further education. Leaving aside the worth of a degree ( a whole different debate!) I have always thought that going away, becoming more independent, meeting new people etc, would be worth it on its own. But now? Who knows what “attending” uni might even entail? Remote learning by Zoom? He has already effectively had to teach himself for the last 3 months. Is this a sign of things to come?

Covid has set a precedent for how societies will react in future. If we can be imprisoned over this we can expect similar restrictions every time some new virus appears. Plus I don’t think Covid will go away. Like a common cold it will recirculate , come back etc and be equally as mild but treated as if it’s the bubonic plague. Any excuse to criminalise normal behaviour. Want to go out with a compulsory face mask? Forget it, the majority will comply and the few who resist will be pariahs. What do you then do, have the balls to fight back or accept the path of least resistance. Maybe I can’t see the end in sight for the fog of depression at the moment or maybe there actually is no light at the end. I don’t know.

43869 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Roadrash, 3, #1199 of 1372 🔗

I’d tell your oldest go for an apprenticeship and learn that way.

If he wants a university education do it with the Open University or distance learning and then he’s not just limited to what this country has to offer education wise and he’ll learn a lot more.

As an (ex)employer I would always pick someone who went this route than school-college-universirt-more university route and so do most big companies as it shows initiative, willing to crack on with it yourself an not wait to be handed it to you on a plate and so on.

43738 Annabel Andrew, replying to Annabel Andrew, 33, #1200 of 1372 🔗

Went to a restaurant on Sunday evening- what a joy! No masks, happy staff thrilled to be back- just amazing; could have cried it felt so normal!
Note to restaurateurs and bar/pub owners – however tricky the guidance is ( and it IS guidance, it’s not the law) remember that your customers are looking for a glimmer of hope and happiness – it’s only by behaving normally that we can get normality back.

43758 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Annabel Andrew, 2, #1201 of 1372 🔗

Well said!

43776 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Annabel Andrew, 3, #1202 of 1372 🔗

Are you able to give them a boost by posting the name/location, Annabel ?

43748 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #1203 of 1372 🔗

The highs every incident tracking system shows zero coronavirus across the globe:


43788 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #1204 of 1372 🔗


43806 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, #1205 of 1372 🔗

It’s an interesting site for tracking and finding out about ongoing emergencies, disasters, extreme weather, earthquakes, disease outbreaks, ships sinking and so on.

43796 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Awkward Git, #1206 of 1372 🔗

Does it normally show health outbreaks, then? Not a service I have seen before.

43866 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to IanE, #1207 of 1372 🔗

Yes, the public plague in China is on it and it was showing the coronavirus “pandemic” a few months ago across parts of Europe, China, New York and California but funnily enough never in the UK as i regularly checked.

Apparently our numbers were that low and unreliable we never officially met the “pandemic” criteria.

Today it’s showing a 2 dead car crash in the US, Idaho or Utah I think.

43867 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #1208 of 1372 🔗

Pubonic plague not public – bloody predictive text.

43752 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1209 of 1372 🔗

Like shooting fish in a barrel with a sawn-off shotgun, it’s getting boring now.

Look who is a contributor to the Royal Society:

“The Royal Society actively supports open access publishing through our gold OA journals, green OA policy, open access membership programme, and now through our Read & Publish option for 2021.
Read & Publish (R&P) is a new way for librarians to purchase both content and open access publishing with one simple yearly fee. R&P customers will be able to access all our content and accepted articles will be published with no APC fees to pay at the point of use.
Many researchers must publish open access as part of their funding agreement, and Royal Society publishing policies meet the guidelines set down by a range of major funders including the Wellcome Trust , Research England, NIH, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, HHMI, UKRI, European Commission. All Royal Society journals are Plan S compliant.”

No surprise on these tannic their president is taking then.

Committee ember picked at random and guess who he has links to?


In 1993, he founded the Wellcome Trust Centre for Human Genetics, a leading international centre for complex trait common disease genetics. He is a Non-Executive Director of Roche Holding, Chairman of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation Global Health Advisory Board”

43757 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1210 of 1372 🔗

I noticed the pernicious nudging about mandatory muzzles cited RS and WHO evidence.

43838 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1211 of 1372 🔗

Some couples would not be missed if they were lost at sea.

43880 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1212 of 1372 🔗

Well done!

I notice from the link that John Bell is non-executive director of Genentec Inc. Here’s a flavour of what they’re about:

It has been amazing to see our scientific and health care communities mobilizing during these extraordinary times. Such is the devastating human toll and global impact of COVID-19 that developing tests, treatments and vaccines has become an urgent, unifying priority for health care providers, policymakers, and the biopharmaceutical community alike.


Genentech chief Alexander Hardy: ‘This pandemic is a chance to show the best of the drug industry’ Genentech’s chief executive says people are depending on drug companies to make a difference

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/05/25/genentech-chief-alexander-hardythis-pandemic-chance-show-best/ (behind paywall)

43753 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1213 of 1372 🔗

A good overview of Sweden including many graphs showing that 2020 is not a remarkable year for deaths. Ivor Cummings is looking at doing a short video on it at some point:


43763 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1214 of 1372 🔗

See my post below with updated stats from Sweden..

43762 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1215 of 1372 🔗

From the ONS stats today:

In Week 26, the number of deaths registered was 3.4% below the five-year average (314 deaths fewer), this is the second consecutive week that deaths have been below the five-year average; the numbers of deaths in care homes and hospitals were also fewer than the five-year average (103 and 815 deaths lower respectively), while the number of deaths in private homes was 745 higher than the five-year average.


43787 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1216 of 1372 🔗

The private home ones were probably people trying to get their GPs to answer the phone.

43794 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1217 of 1372 🔗

Private homes have always been more dangerous than work places, of course – a point I made at the beginning of the Lockdown. [Not to blow my own trumpet, of c ourse!]

43764 MDH, replying to MDH, 6, #1218 of 1372 🔗

Just read this on a friend’s FB wall: “I went up to town today and I nearly screamed the entire time. The backs of my ears are sore from the mask as it rubs the scars on the back of my ears, so it literally HURTS to wear a mask. And yet, I’m wearing one.

Humans are awful.”

Further proof, as if it were needed, that mask-wearing is just the latest performative piety. I feel I’m going mad.

43870 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MDH, 2, #1219 of 1372 🔗

Masochism seems to one of the key components of the programming for many.

43923 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to MDH, 2, #1220 of 1372 🔗

Someone I know posted up a picture of herself newly masked up, saying that it felt like asthma – but saying that as if it were some kind of badge of honour. What’s happened to virtually all of my friends??

I like that phrase “performative piety.” It sums it up.

43774 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to smileymiley, 2, #1222 of 1372 🔗

For future you can use bitly.com ( https://bitly.com/ ) to shorten links. The above link becomes this when used:


43881 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Nobody2020, #1223 of 1372 🔗

Ta! Didn’t know that 😱

43792 ▶▶ IanE, replying to smileymiley, 1, #1224 of 1372 🔗

Probably just aiming to save money: you know, those fact-finding intense working visits to the Bahamas don’t pay for themselves!

43769 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 30, #1225 of 1372 🔗

Just collected the wife from the hairdressers (a national chain), she’s feeling more human again after a new colour etc but she says one part of her wishes she hadn’t gone as it was so depressing.

The wife explained to the staff and other customers that guidelines are voluntary and not law and she was then told by the staff that they all are under threat of being instantly sacked if either a customer reports them for any infraction of the “guidelines” or if top management does a spot check and finds them not complying in any way no matter how small.

The older ones know it’s all bullshit but need the jobs.

The younger 20-25 year olds are shit scared (her words) of going out, contracting the virus and are convince they are all going to die horribly even meeting people. When she tried to explain to them how small the chances of this happening were they wouldn’t listen as they were basically brainwashed and programmed to be scared.

The other customers stopped talking o her when they all started praising the wonderful NHS etc and she started telling them how they had actually been killing people -again no-one listened.

And then to top it all off I met a neighbour and her daughter who is waiting to go back to university. The daughter said lockdown and been great for nature as CO2 was dropping etc and how getting down to zero CO2 was a good goal. Tried to explain to her about photosynthesis and that plants need CO2 to live, no CO2 no plants, no life on Earth so did she hate humans that much she wanted us wiped out but she wouldn’t have it because (and you’ll either laugh or cry at this) her lecturer and told her and he wouldn’t lie to his students would he? He’s a lecturer so knows better than anyone else.

When asked if she had actually read anything about photosynthesis and life cycle of plants, how the world is greening due to a higher atmospheric CO2 content, how you increase crop yields in greenhouses by increasing CO2 in the greenhouse and so on and her answer was – no, she didn’t need to as her lecturer and told her lower CO2 was good end of discussion – another brainwashed useful idiot.

I felt like beating her round the head with big stick.

It’s going to be a long, long uphill struggle with some people.

43786 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #1226 of 1372 🔗

Sadly, the lack of fully-developed frontal lobes and life experience from which to acquire wisdom, makes them easy prey. The comparison with the Cultural Revolution becomes scarily more obvious.

43953 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1227 of 1372 🔗

It’s not entirely the fault of the public, Cheezy. An educated and informed populace is viewed as a threat to the Establishment.

43799 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #1228 of 1372 🔗

Wow, sounds like you created a really relaxed and friendly environment! It’s better not to take people on like this, you’re only making yourself stressed and wound up. People don’t respond to a direct challenge of their choices, they will change their mind slowly along with the rest of the herd, most people conform and they like to. It can’t be news to you that most people are superficial and a bit dumb? In the past have you tried to engage people in the hairdresser in nuanced political debate? No, you just stick to chatting about the dog and their latest holiday to Malaga! There is a reason for this! So why are you trying to now, and being disheartened by the results!?

43819 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cruella, 9, #1229 of 1372 🔗

After months of telling me not to “engage” with people as they won’t listen the first time she goes somewhere by herself she gets frustrated and sounded worse than I get at times when talking to dumbasses.

What got her heckles up was the taint of fear being instllled in everyone by either government, their friends or employers and it was palpable.

She told me before they could have a good old debate in the hairdressers, now no-one wants to rock the boat and wants to obey and conform.

Getting disheartened? Maybe after all these months but then something happens to change my opinion of people and what is happening for the better. It’s always darkest before ether dawn a step saying goes.

43834 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1230 of 1372 🔗

Suggest seeking out an Eastern European view point. I have a wonderful friend who is horrified at what they are seeing as this is bringing back storys and memories of the communist years. They are light years ahead of seeing through the propaganda.

43844 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 3, #1231 of 1372 🔗

The son’s girlfriend is Polish and they are over there at the moment visiting her elderly parents and to get a haircut before here opened up and with less crap over there.

Speaking to them lots of people know something is wrong but either going along with it for a quiet life like here or don’t know how to fight back.

Majority of people thought the Polish lockdown was so the incumbent president could steal the election by cheating the postal votes as they were not opening polling stations – don’t know how that went or if he won or not. Will have to check.

Facemarks compulsory in shops and on public transport and big fines by the Police but opening up pubs and restaurants quicker than here so some things more normal than here, some not.

43850 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #1232 of 1372 🔗

Quiet life is something people learn. This is where many non LS site skeptics are I would suggest.

43862 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 6, #1233 of 1372 🔗

I know what you mean.

Neighbours asked for some sites to look at as they were sceptics and want more info so I sent them links to facts, figures, research, this site and so on so they could do their own research and make their minds up for definite.

After 2 days they said “no more”, not because I sent them too much but because thinking that the government could actually do something like genocide against the old and incarcerate a complete population with nearly zero evidence and without rebellion made their brains hurt (their words) and they didn’t want to think anymore so gave up.

43999 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #1234 of 1372 🔗

GPs actively give such advice, don’t pay attention to the news as it causes stress.

All they need to know in a friendly, jolly way-

The Tiny Dot

43936 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Awkward Git, #1235 of 1372 🔗

Masks and Poland?

I know a book about that – https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maus

Maus is my favourite graphic novel and one of my favourite books.

I would urge everybody to read it.

43954 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 2, #1236 of 1372 🔗

My OH is Ukrainian. Likewise.

43958 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, 1, #1237 of 1372 🔗


43992 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, #1238 of 1372 🔗

John. What you have written here is basically the same as saying all English people (you) cannot give an honest opinion because both Sage groups are bought and have chips on their professional shoulders.

I’m sure you didn’t intend to but youve kind of ignored all the millions of decent people knocking about in Ukraine.

43829 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cruella, 5, #1239 of 1372 🔗

Well, I would normally avoid political debate or debate on controversial topics with all but close friends and family. But the stakes are high right now, as high as they have been for a long time, certainly in my lifetime. If people’s attitudes are not challenged, how will they ever change their minds?

It’s true most won’t, but some might. I would say there is a case for chipping away bit by bit. Of course, there are ways of doing it that may give you more chance of success – stealth sometimes better than a full frontal assault.

43800 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1240 of 1372 🔗

Well done you for trying but it sounds rather hopeless with the young – its like trying to get blood out of the stone.

43820 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1241 of 1372 🔗

There’s a few thinking ones around if you can find them which is good, some are on here.

43841 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1242 of 1372 🔗

Very true – Poppy is one that comes to mind.

43874 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1243 of 1372 🔗

Agree with all that. Every member of my family thinks I’m crazy… At least your wife is onside. I have literally nobody to talk to about this stuff… 🙁

43943 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1244 of 1372 🔗

Well you have us lot on here – plus as well as the wife (who does tell me to stop now and again) I have 4 friends dotted around the world who are all sceptics and that is it.

No-one else is interested in talking about anything other than soap operas, big brother, talent shows and other brain dead stuff.

43892 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1245 of 1372 🔗

This conservation with a university student is beyond satire.

43950 ▶▶ John P, replying to Awkward Git, #1246 of 1372 🔗

In fairness, most of this is not new.

The “powers that be” – however you might want to define them – are frightened of the public.

I suppose that might be the military top brass, civil service mandarins, the judiciary and government.

So they push drivel down our throats to keep us happy. All of those shit tv programmes, “strictly”, “bake off”, “dragons den” and my pet hate “come dine with me”.

They are aided in this by national newspapers and the state broadcaster, the BBC.

I know it sounds a bit paranoid, but they do it because they fear an educated populace.

They fear we might rise up against them and overthrow them if we are fully informed.

Better to keep us dumb and obedient. That’s their attitude.

44010 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to John P, -1, #1247 of 1372 🔗

the government push the Four “F”s as the opiate to the masses to keep tehm dumbed down: Football, Fosters, Facebook and F*****g

43777 wendyk, 1, #1248 of 1372 🔗


I’ve just bought one of these; could be useful for other specs reliant sceptics

43782 Awkward Git, 1, #1249 of 1372 🔗

Found this video interview of Bill Gates which starts about 5:00 in.

What to watch for next if this virus doesn’t work to cow us all?


43797 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1250 of 1372 🔗

Mark B posted this link below ( https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/05/latest-news-68/#comment-43747 )

A ‘Nordic’ comparison: Sweden has lower overall mortality than Finland – and Scotland!

What stood out for me in particular was the attached graph. Now it’s been argued that lockdowns have brought the death rate down faster than without one. Looking at the slope of death graphs I can accept this argument.

However looking at the graph from the linked comparison we can clearly see the slope of Scotlands graph is far steeper on the way in compared to Sweden. Is this indication that Lockdown caused people to die faster? Direct comparisons are difficult and you can make data say many things but this graph certainly indicates to me that lockdowns may well have made things worse.

43809 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Nobody2020, 18, #1251 of 1372 🔗

I think that lockdowns actually caused people to die faster and that’s one of the reasons why there was a spike in deaths. Think about it, people were kicked out of hospitals, they were in there for a reason in the first place, either at the end of life or suffering from something that if it wasn’t treated properly could result in complications resulting in loss of life. I think (and I’ve no way of knowing) that it’s not unreasonable to say that a lot of the people who died in hospitals were in fact re-admitted to hospitals after having been kicked out, if you see what I mean? Presumably the upheaval of prematurely leaving hospital can cause stress on the body that could cause death quicker, plus if people would’ve remained in hospital they would have received care that would have meant they would’ve lived longer. All in all, lockdown kills and no one in the MSM or the government is willing to admit it. It’s a disgrace. Johnson has said today (I think) that people died in care homes because they didn’t follow the guidelines, as far as I know the reporter didn’t challenge them and say the guidelines changed all the time and you kicked everyone into the care homes. Massive blame shifting. I don’t know how he has the front to say that or how he sleeps at night.

43828 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Moomin, 3, #1252 of 1372 🔗

That’s my thinking as well. I’m just wary of saying any single piece of data is definitive proof of anything and don’t want to say that everyone should think like me. This is just one of many pieces of data that backs up my thoughts and people should look at it relative to their own research. If people agree with me based on what they’ve found that’s great because it will be independent of me telling them to agree with me.

43915 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1253 of 1372 🔗

Yeah, that’s the attitude I’m trying to adopt but at the moment I just want to shake people so that they come to their senses, which obviously isn’t helpful!

43888 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Moomin, 2, #1254 of 1372 🔗

They know the lockdown kills. They brand it as “indirect COVID 19 deaths”.

43889 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Moomin, 1, #1255 of 1372 🔗

One thing for sure is that most survived heart attacks actually occur in hospital settings. Hundreds of them. BHF figures: in normal times 280 per day outside hospital cardiac arrests. Overall survival is around 7/10 but out of hospital survival is only 1/10. So if most of the arrest cases have been forced out of hospital settings, hundreds more will die per day! This is just CA, you then have strokes, vascular dementia etc etc.

43814 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1256 of 1372 🔗

This graph, if I am reading it correctly, is the most impressive for me:

Cumulative mortality for Nordic countries

So Swedish cumulative mortality sits right between Norway and Finland, which were praised for their lockdowns which supposedly led to an order of magnitude less Covid-positive deaths than Sweden.

43824 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to jrsm, 3, #1257 of 1372 🔗

Indeed. One wonders if the difference in covid deaths per million between Sweden and their neighbours was in large part down to counting things differently.

43971 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #1258 of 1372 🔗

Don’t know, but one thing that annoys me is when people compare the Scandinavian countries as if they were similar entities – they are not! Sweden has a far larger population than any of the others and also a far higher proportion of the population that are not ethnic Scandinavians. As BAME groups are more vulnerable to the virus, that makes a lot of difference to illness rates; also non-ethnic Swedes tend to live in multi-generational and crowded households.

43810 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 7, #1259 of 1372 🔗

Something that has been slowly making its way into my despondent thought processes: for many many years now, our so called betters have proclaimed that diversity in every aspect of life is the way forward and that cultural and social relativism amount to ‘right think’.

Now, those very same movers and shakers are insisting on uniformity- conformity-in dress, acceptable social norms and trust in the establishment.

Secondly, and I hope that scientists here might confirm or refute if I’m wrong, I’ve always assumed that total eradication of pathogens is impossible, so why the Zero Covid push by Wee Krankie?

Political gain?

43827 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to wendyk, 11, #1260 of 1372 🔗

Someone can correct me here, but I think the only disease humans have managed to completely eradicate is smallpox. Attempting to eradicate a coronavirus seems to me to be laughable… Even if one country could somehow manage it, they would have to maintain a closed border until the end of time unless the entire world also eradicated it simultaneously.

43839 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to A. Contrarian, #1261 of 1372 🔗


43840 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1262 of 1372 🔗

That’s correct. Even illnesses like polio, leprosy, beri-beri, rickets are still around the only reasons why there virtually zero here in the West is the higher standard of living and are now easily avoidable.

43852 ▶▶▶ assoc, replying to A. Contrarian, #1263 of 1372 🔗

And remember, the last case (And death from) of smallpox
in the world was of a scientist in a virus research laboratory in…..
the UK!

43830 ▶▶ John P, replying to wendyk, 3, #1264 of 1372 🔗

so called betters have proclaimed that diversity in every aspect of life is the way forward and that cultural and social relativism amount to ‘right think’.

Well they might consider themselves “betters” – I certainly don’t. Most of that crowd are not very self aware individuals.

There is nothing wrong with diversity, but they forget to include viewpoint diversity. In fact, they seem to be extremely hostile to viewpoint diversity.

If you are interested in the subject Jonathan Haidt is a leading thinker in this area.


“I’ve always assumed that total eradication of pathogens is impossible.”

I think it depends. I think smallpox has been eradicated.

“why the Zero Covid push by Wee Krankie?”

She’s a politician.

43833 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to John P, 3, #1265 of 1372 🔗

To me:

Zero Covid = taking your ball and going home or wishing the problem away

43836 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1266 of 1372 🔗

Well quite.

43837 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to John P, #1267 of 1372 🔗

Thank you. Will read it

43973 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to John P, 1, #1268 of 1372 🔗

Zero covid is simply changing the goal-posts in order to maintain power. I know that sounds conspiratorial, but it’s the truth, even if it is subconscious. We knew that people would not likely go for lockdown, which is why it was “two weeks to flatten the curve.” In the US, governors issued “emergency declarations” to enable them basically dictatorial power. Those orders are extended and extended and extended. Once people are focused solely on covid, they lose all context. At what point do we go back to thinking of this in relation to the flu? We keep hearing “masks work!” Ok, let’s pretend that they do – we don’t allow our governments to force people to wear masks in order to protect against the flu or the cold, even if we believe that doing so would “save lives.” We can only have these conversations when we think in a vacuum.

The Zero-Covid push is maybe not any sort of intentional strategy; it is the product of us spending 100% of our time and energy focused on this single issue, and completely losing context. This is what virtually any conversation would end up looking like if we handled everything in a vacuum – the fact that we don’t regularly do this actually helps us to avoid ridiculous outcomes. We could go for zero drug deaths, zero highway deaths, etc… etc… etc… But life doesn’t work that way. But for Covid, we have put life on hold, and we are looking at this in a vacuum.

I think that when people start to get back to their ordinary lives, and they once again allow context to seep back in, they will see all of this in an entirely different light. Problem is, our governments are forcing us to continue living in an artificial vacuum.

43994 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RyanM, 2, #1269 of 1372 🔗

I commented on the Independent Sage discussion on Youtube with the following:

Once you accept mandatory mask wearing there will never be a situation where they won’t be mandatory until the virus is eradicated. Which could easily be never.

44000 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1270 of 1372 🔗

Some of the symptoms of Covid are similar to those of the flu. A number of people have been sure they have had Covid but tested negative. We do not wear masks during the flu season every year – if masks are so effective for viral infections, one might ask why we have never done this; why has it never been recommended before?

Will we now be expected to wear masks every winter, as a so-called precautionary measure?

43812 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #1271 of 1372 🔗

Regarding face mask exemption badges, you can also get them here and please consider supporting this charity. They’re Edinburgh based, great for our fellow sceptics in Scotland:


43821 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1272 of 1372 🔗

thanks for this. I have ordered and donated.

43826 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1273 of 1372 🔗

Thanks, ordered and donated

43835 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1274 of 1372 🔗

Ordered and donated. Thank you Bart.

43851 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1275 of 1372 🔗

Ordered and donated. Thanks Bart.

43865 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1276 of 1372 🔗

Many thanks, Bart. Just ordered 3 (my donation got spat out but I’ve emailed them to sort it out) and they say there’s a high demand. Fancy that!

43887 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1277 of 1372 🔗

Thank you. Ordered and donated through “Just Giving” as I had the same problem as Miriam.

43895 ▶▶ Evelyn, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1278 of 1372 🔗

Thanks Bart. I’ve ordered and donated.

43931 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1279 of 1372 🔗

Ordered and donated. Thank you!

43815 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #1280 of 1372 🔗

Interesting thread on Twitter regarding Japan:


The new Japan model: “government hopes not to lean too much toward public health experts, who often recommend actions that would lower virus transmission but at the expense of halting the movement of people, thereby harming the economy”

Article linked in the thread for those not on Twitter:


43822 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1281 of 1372 🔗

Thanks – that is positive.

43842 Melangell, 13, #1282 of 1372 🔗

Nearly fell over laughing in Carmarthen – my first visit since lockdown. When my 70 yr old friend John, commonly known as Tramp, caught sight of a few people in muzzles he said he was surprised to see all these dangerous bastards in town but glad they’d been prevented from biting us!

43843 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 8, #1283 of 1372 🔗

They’re coming for us in Wales


After resisting the urge to impose face masks anywhere the Welsh Government are about to crack. I’m surprised it’s taken so long. How will they justify the fact that they’ve advised against making them mandatory so far? What new evidence will they invent? Answers on a postcard….

43846 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to The Spingler, 3, #1284 of 1372 🔗


43847 ▶▶ Bella, replying to The Spingler, 4, #1285 of 1372 🔗

They don’t need evidence when they are wheeling out the sheeple to do their work for them.

43863 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella, 7, #1286 of 1372 🔗

Sadly, I agree. But at the same time, I wonder how happy people will be to comply if they try and enforce this everywhere. I sense that people are relaxing more and I wonder how many people are really buying into the ‘2nd wave’ crap when nobody round here knows anyone who has a) had the virus at all or at least within the last 2-3 months.

Yesterday brought our Monday yomp over the hill to shop, Morrisons, which has done reasonably well throughout in staying calm, has taken out the antisocial distancing circles (replaced them with obscure tape markings which everyone was ignoring) and they’ve re-opened the cafe. It looks almost normal if you ignore the perspex screens. Stupid! I think to reclaim parking spaces, they have replaced the massive queue barriers with a metal maze which crams people closer together. Oo-er Missus, 2nd wave in the High Peak!

No swerving and only 3 masks in the whole trip: A frail old chap, then a crazed-looking woman in filthy gloves. The 3rd was a man who got off the bus as we were drinking coffee on a wall. My husband said, ‘Get some oxygen, mate’ and he whipped it off, gave us a big grin and said ‘Good idea!’.

We decided a day or so ago, having boycotted PT since June 15th, that we are reclaiming our Old Normal and we’ll use the bus/train when we really need to. Since we are exempt anyway and we’re picking our battles, I have just ordered those Euan badges and I got a reply that they are experiencing a ‘high demand’. I bet they are!

43853 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to The Spingler, 1, #1287 of 1372 🔗

They will expect everyone not to remember anything before yesterday and claim it was the plan alls long.

43864 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to The Spingler, 8, #1288 of 1372 🔗

Ministers ‘looking at evidence’ on face coverings”
If this were true, the conclusion can only be that mandating them is completely unwarranted.
I also see Bojo and co are about to crack:
If anyone actually reads the content of this article, which is doing its best to make it sound like the ‘2 new studies’ actually provide evidence for their effectiveness, you’ll see the best they can come up with is ‘several other countries’ are doing it, and ‘83%’ in Italy wear them (where apparently they’re about to become no longer required, according to my Italian colleague – tho I can’t verify that as dont speak Italian)

For anyone reading this: The Royal Societies own paper that cites those 2 studies as justification for it’s position and new press campaign for muzzling, concludes that “The study by Canini et al 52 was stopped early because of poor enrollment; the study had only a 38% chance of detecting a 40% additional protection by masking. Not unexpectedly, the study found no masking effectiveness.”

That is direct from their actual findings. The second one is a bit lengthier, so I won’t repost – but in summary, take up was insufficient so they just made up some numbers.

This information is freely available for anyone who goes beyond the newspaper article and/or headlines and actually reads their findings, it’s utterly disgraceful.

43873 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to The Spingler, 16, #1289 of 1372 🔗

If they do this, I will simply refuse to comply. If asked why, I’ll say I am a rational person and follow the science. If they fine me, I will rip it up in their faces. If they jail me for repeated non-payments of fines, so be it. I will no longer follow their arbitrary rules. If enough of us do this, those seeking to control us are powerless. If I’m the only one resisting, so be it. I’m waiting for my Prisoner T-shirt bought from the Portmeirion website. “ I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! My life is my own!”

43951 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1290 of 1372 🔗

I’m with tou, WILL NOT COMPLY.

43877 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to The Spingler, 2, #1291 of 1372 🔗

How amazing that they will all follow Nicola Sturgeon – she must be an amazing leader and setting a great example.

43984 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, #1292 of 1372 🔗

A broad smile here victoria.

Picture two really disgusting piles of horror and unpleasantness. One makes a distant posh sound when you tread on it, the other makes a sound more familiar. This is the genius of sturgeon.

43988 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Victoria, #1293 of 1372 🔗

I’ve had a bizarre conversation with someone who thinks Nicola S is showing real leadership skills in a pandemic. There really wasn’t a gap in the conversation to halt the flow. It was depressing. Do you think NS is visualising leading the SNP army to fight off the English? It looks like it.

43899 ▶▶ watashi, replying to The Spingler, 3, #1294 of 1372 🔗

I took a train journey today with my 3 daughters (5, 9 & 13). The trains unusually punctual and almost empty. On the train out there were 4 other passengers (2 of whom were muzzled) on the return journey 5 passengers-2 of whom were muzzled when they boarded, but took them off when I asked them a question and couldn t make out their answer. I was expecting to be asked to wear a mask or for someone to enforce it at some point but no one said anything-a couple of the station staff wore them, the train drivers and guards didn t. It was an interesting anthropological experience…depressing though it is to see intelligent looking people muzzled and gagged.

43849 assoc, replying to assoc, 18, #1295 of 1372 🔗

I always thought that the Rednecks would save us! Texas police say they will refuse to enforce the Governor’s order that people must be muzzled in public. Hooray! Now try and vaccinate them.

43930 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to assoc, #1296 of 1372 🔗

Vaccinate Texas Police?

43955 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to assoc, 3, #1297 of 1372 🔗

I live in Washington State. Our police don’t enforce these orders, either. The Sheriff made a statement saying that he wouldn’t be enforcing any of it. Not sure about the local police, but they don’t seem inclined to enforce it, either.

But that doesn’t stop napoleon-complex governors. What my governor has done is place this burden on local business owners. His actual quote was: “No mask, no services!” Even though he has threatened individuals with a misdemeanor criminal offense for not wearing a mask, the real threat is against business owners. He encourages people to turn in business owners who do business with anyone not wearing a mask, and fines are issued or the business is closed down.

Why bother with police when you can turn the population on itself? This is a pretty classic strategy employed by totalitarian dictators. Again, I would have expected to see rioting in the US based on this – but no. People are more than happy to run around grocery stores taking pictures of their neighbors.

I remember reading in the Gulag Archipelago when Solzhenitsyn would frequently lament the behavior of the population, saying that if even a small number of Russians would have resisted the police making random arrests, or demanded to see actual evidence, the whole apparatus would have fallen apart. But people willingly went along with it.

43859 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 7, #1298 of 1372 🔗

It must be over -the Daily Mail uses the term fizzles out (despite the link name) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8497533/Virus-likely-brought-forward-deaths-elderly-vulnerable-ONS.html

43879 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to arfurmo, 9, #1299 of 1372 🔗

They’ve updated and actually put fizzle in the headline:


I got this comment on:

Nothing here that us sceptics haven’t been saying since March. MSM just catching up now when it is all over – so why are the idiots in charge hellbent on forcing muzzles onto everybody?

43885 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to arfurmo, 2, #1300 of 1372 🔗

The Daily Mail change their minds more often than the WHO…

43893 ▶▶ Julian, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1301 of 1372 🔗

Good to get that message in front of the public. Many may not agree, but anything that sows doubt helps the cause.

43875 Mark B, 5, #1302 of 1372 🔗

Another dose of madness. Accidental chemical poisonings surge as children eat hand sanitiser and public clean food in bleach

43891 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1303 of 1372 🔗

Extract from The Telegraph live feed. I think the response to this is something that rhymes with “clucking bell”, as Blackadder would say:

Oxford professor re-opens pub’s socially distanced dining pods

Oxford country gastropub The White Hart of Wytham re-opened last night, launching its new al fresco dining pods with Sarah Gilbert, Professor of Vaccinology at the Jenner Institute in Oxford, there to cut the ribbon.

Prof Gilbert attended with a member of her team, Teresa Lambe, enjoying dinner in one of the pods and receiving a warm reception from all the evening’s customers.

Owner of The White Hart, Baz Butcher, said: “Our 16th-century pub has long been popular with Oxford academics alongside villagers and the wider foodie community, so it seemed more than appropriate to recognise and express our gratitude to one of the University’s current innovators at this momentous time.”

Gilbert adds: “It was wonderful to be able to enjoy the White Hart’s excellent food in the new pods, which provide for sheltered and screened outdoor dining. We had a relaxed evening with great service.”

There are 10 pods in the pub, made using mostly recycled materials by one of the pub’s patrons. Each accommodates two couples or a family of four.

Of the pods, Butcher says: “We made an early reckoning that we’d have to mitigate social distancing measures and consumer concerns about eating out. Since announcing the pods we’ve established a waiting list high into triple figures, which tells us we got the mix right.”

43960 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1304 of 1372 🔗

Meanwhile, none of this stupidity in Swedish eateries, and yet the hospitalisation and death rates continue to fall..

43896 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 1, #1305 of 1372 🔗

Toby, I’d be curious to see your treatment of this:


Early on, National Review (does anyone even remember WFB’s old comment about standing athwart history yelling “stop?”) became just another medium for relatively uninformed covid-hyperventilating commentary. That it keeps this up is truly discouraging.

43903 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to RyanM, 1, #1306 of 1372 🔗

LOL. The article refers to someone called Choe, presumbaly one of the many “experts” we come across, but there’s no information about who she is, or in what she has expertise.

43904 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to RyanM, 5, #1307 of 1372 🔗

So it’s mutated to be more contagious but less deadly….. they mean it’s turned into a common cold?

43909 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to The Spingler, 1, #1308 of 1372 🔗

You’d think people would ask that question. The assumption of the article is that it is more contagious but not more deadly. How do they know that? He doesn’t say. So he follows with the assumption that if something is more contagious and the same amount of deadly, deaths will still go way, way up. Of course, that is something that a person could fairly easily fact-check. Note the two lines of reasoning and pretend that you were grading college papers.

1) Cases are going way up but deaths are not. Therefore; deaths are a lagging indicator and the other shoe is about to drop. People are about to start dying in droves.

2) Cases are going way up but deaths are not. Therefore; maybe it is more contagious and less deadly?

43952 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to RyanM, 2, #1309 of 1372 🔗


3) “Cases” are going way up but deaths are not, therefore maybe it’s just as contagious and just as deadly as it’s always been, but we never got around to testing swathes of the population who have the viral infection but not the disease before, in a similar way that we don’t test perfectly healthy people for the ‘flu “just in case”?

43963 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to matt, #1310 of 1372 🔗


43927 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to The Spingler, 3, #1311 of 1372 🔗

Turned into a cold from a cold.

43905 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RyanM, 2, #1312 of 1372 🔗

A lot of studies are of the form:

The virus has spread widely let’s see if there’s any common link. Look the most prevalant form of the virus is now this. What else can we say about it? Well it does seem to be spreading faster than before…

Conclusion: current form of the virus spreads faster than before

44006 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Nobody2020, #1313 of 1372 🔗

In my own town, you can look at a bar graph that shows overall tests and positive tests. The percentage positive has varied, but remained relatively constant. The positive tests appear as a curve, but the overall tests appear as pretty much an identical curve.

I do not hear enough discussed about how the increase in positives tends to correlate almost directly to the increase in tests performed.

Conclusion is “virus spreads faster than before,” but how did they rule out “virus is far more widespread than we previously assumed?” The two are not mutually exclusive, but the latter also seems very important if you’re hoping to draw any meaningful conclusions.

44143 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RyanM, #1314 of 1372 🔗

Think it’s likely to do with who’s doing the study and why. If they’ve been asked to show a certain outcome then that’s what they’ll look for. It’s unusual for people to undertake studies just for the sake of it.

43901 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, #1315 of 1372 🔗

If the official death toll is 44,000, does that mean that 44,000 people have been killed by the virus, or does it mean 44,000 people have died with the virus on their death certificate? Any hard evidence on this?

Also, who is WFB?

43902 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Mike Smith, 8, #1316 of 1372 🔗

William F. Buckley was the founder of National Review. That is why I say “critical thinking.” We are seeing a ridiculous amount of “studies” and all sorts of “conventional wisdom” that has developed over the past several months – and so much of it is self-contradictory or simply doesn’t pass the sniff test. We seem to have lost the ability to actually think. We see a piece of information in the form of a hastily published study or a newspaper article or some statistic, and we react to it… but we don’t sit down and think critically about it. We no longer seem to process information because we’re too busy reacting .

43907 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to RyanM, 1, #1317 of 1372 🔗

That makes sense, thanks. I don’t know much about him, although I remember watching this some time ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y021WAdUlW8
Interviewing the great Thomas Sowell.

I agree with your subsequent comments, unfortunately.

43911 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #1318 of 1372 🔗

Old interviews with Sowell are all fantastic. He was recently interviewed here:


And also on the Ricochet podcast from a couple of weeks ago.

43918 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RyanM, 1, #1319 of 1372 🔗

That’s a great interview, as are all of his that I have seen.

43928 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Julian, 4, #1320 of 1372 🔗

The issue of charter and private schools is almost as depressing as the fact that covid has emboldened many of our leaders to declare themselves emperors (and go largely unchallenged).

I just pulled my own kids out of their private school because the state is requiring masks on kids – of course, having no idea what the virus will be doing in September, and already knowing that it doesn’t impact kids. And, as with everything else, private schools are not exempt from governors’ edicts. But I cannot stand the thought of subjecting them to the sort of psychological abuse that is being mandated.

The fact that so few people push back is truly frightening. We really have gone mad.

(I am reminded of a Chesterton, book, I believe it was “The Napoleon of Notting Hill.” He had a unique treatment of the issue of “madness,” that was probably a product of his era. I’d be absolutely fascinated to see his response to covid)

43933 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RyanM, 2, #1321 of 1372 🔗

As children are at negligible risk from CV19, wearing masks is not only unnecessary, but potentially harmful. As the California doctor said, you don’t wrap someone up in bubble-wrap, stick them in a room on their own and expect them to develop a healthy immune system.

43942 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Lms23, 7, #1322 of 1372 🔗

In real life, I am an attorney who represents kids in foster care. Perhaps the most difficult and long-lasting impact of child-abuse is a fear of human contact. Obviously, I’m not equating these things, but I think it is a very dangerous thing for us to artificially create this fear of human contact in entire generations of children. That is to say nothing of the way human immune systems develop.

43956 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RyanM, 4, #1323 of 1372 🔗

I’m seeing a business opportunity here, for starting up small unofficial schools in the homes of people who can accommodate a group up to 30 – isn’t that allowed now in one’s own home, to have 30 people in one place?

43906 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #1324 of 1372 🔗

Also, with respect to death certificates, we already know the numbers are way off. Due to the fact that my own governor has issued mandatory masking (which I’m ignoring) for the entire state, specifically citing my own city as the reason why, I have spent a lot of time looking at the actual numbers for my city. On the Department of Health’s own website, at one point, it was openly stated that the criteria for a covid death was that a person had died after having tested positive. Several cases had to be removed – gunshot and overdose deaths. If you tested positive and died a month later of any cause whatsoever, you’d be a covid death. I don’t know how much of this is malicious (my experience with conspiracies is that they simply don’t ever work) and how much of it is simply due to our inability to develop a system of keeping track of these things.

43910 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to RyanM, 2, #1325 of 1372 🔗

Surely there were procedures to ensure cause of death was accurately recorded, procedures that have been deliberately altered so that cause of death is no longer accurately recorded.

43916 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to RyanM, 1, #1326 of 1372 🔗

That’s what I thought had been going on. Many thanks.

43972 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RyanM, 1, #1327 of 1372 🔗

I believe Scotland’s c 19 emergency death certing has a similar tested positive or has med notes saying showed c19 symptom/s in last month then c19 is a cause and counted as c19 death. Please check this i am unable to currently.

43913 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mike Smith, 4, #1328 of 1372 🔗


As in, we’re unlikely to really know.
There’s a lot of anecdotal evidence that people have had CV19 added to their death certificate, but relatives don’t believe it’s what caused their death. My sister’s FIL is one example: He was 91, had undergone hip surgery for a broken hip, had heart failure, which was given as cause of death, but he also had CV19 as an additional cause, although he’d apparently shown no symptoms. I’ve read a lot of these accounts.
I doubt that there will be a proper assessment. The PTB are only too happy to go along with the case total at the moment. When they get attacked for it, maybe they’ll take a harder look at it.

43920 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Lms23, 5, #1329 of 1372 🔗

Very similar story regarding an old guy in the next village to mine. Terminal cancer, weeks to live, fell at home, broke his ankle, once in hospital he was tested positive for covid 19 but no symptoms, died a week or so later from his cancer but covid on his DC.

43921 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Lms23, 2, #1330 of 1372 🔗

As many have pointed out, the only true measure is to look at all-cause mortality at the end of the year and see the extent to which it differs, if at all, from recent average years, and then do some analysis. There’s so much variation in how covid deaths are reported, the comparisons are probably not that valid. For sure a number of countries, like the UK, definitely saw a significant spike in deaths for a period of a few weeks, some of which may have been caused by covid, but the picture is confused by lockdowns, which may have caused additional deaths.

43929 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Julian, 1, #1331 of 1372 🔗

The lockdown will certainly be causing additional deaths, so I don’t see how a comparison of total deaths will help.

43966 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #1332 of 1372 🔗

Agreed, and the really scary question is whether lockdown has been maintained deliberately, to skew all-cause mortality figures and obfuscate Coronovirus actually killing only a negligible number, simply moving some deaths forward slightly. Could it be that dark? Killing people via lockdown to cover their own arses? The complimentary fiddling of death cert processes points that way. Next step, cancer deaths going on the Coronovirus count because Coronovirus caused them not to be diagnosed.

43926 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lms23, 1, #1333 of 1372 🔗

In those countries that continued post-mortems, they certainly found that Covid played a part in some deaths, but I don’t think it is listed as the actual cause of death in any cases, but is listed as a contributing factor.

Where PMs were no longer conducted, and before testing was ramped up to today’s levels, doctors had to make a call whether Covid was a factor or not. Generally speaking, in these cases, Covid is not quoted as the primary cause. Generally speaking.

43934 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Nick Rose, 9, #1334 of 1372 🔗

It is a very interesting issue. I’ve had discussions with doctor friends who have treated covid cases and definitely think that it is something unique and pretty deadly in some cases. That alone should lead to some pretty important questions, but people don’t seem to be asking those questions.

I have said many times: Imagine if we tested everyone in the hospital for presence of the common cold? Imagine if every time a person who died tested positive for the cold, it was listed as a cold death? I am not suggesting that covid is, and has always been, nothing more than a cold. But we are creating a situation with so much noise that we’ve essentially removed our ability to properly investigate the situation to see what is actually going on.

43924 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #1335 of 1372 🔗

The last (even worse) time we locked down. Didn’t we?

“In the 2017 to 2018 winter period, there were an estimated 50,100 excess winter deaths (EWD) in England and Wales (Figure 1). The number of EWD observed in 2017 to 2018 was higher than all years since the 1975 to 1976 winter period when there were 58,100 EWD.”

43925 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #1336 of 1372 🔗

Lots of anecdotal evidence plus whistleblowers.

It’s happening all over the locked up countries not just this one – in Poland I know of a friend of my son’s girlfriend’s family who was getting on a bit was undergoing treatment for blood clots prior to all this covid hysteria.

Poland cleared the hospitals (some of her friends were nurses so was getting the updates and latest from them) and locked down the care homes and all hospital treatments were stopped so the old boy hadn’t had treatment for months and could’t get a GP’s appointment as they were refusing to see anyone.

A few days ago he collapsed in the street from a blood clot hitting his lungs and no-one would help him as they all said “covid-19 infected”. It just happened that my son’s girlfriends mother was walking past and saw what was happening, explained that he had blood clots, not covid-19 but still no-one would help.

He was taken to hospital, cause of death – covid-19, blood clots not mentioned.

43940 ▶▶ John P, replying to Mike Smith, #1337 of 1372 🔗

I thought everyone here knew it is just where it is mentioned on a death certificate.

It is a notifiable disease (unlike flu) so has to be noted if the recently deceased tests positive.

44020 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mike Smith, #1338 of 1372 🔗

At the end of may, the ONS stats said 90.4% of deaths had more than two comorbidities, so you can more than likely say that they werent FROM COVID-19.

In another post in ber,e, someone is currently trying to get the Care Home figures for deaths with “Confirmed COVID-19” and “Suspected COVID-19” which made deaths exponential rise in care homes after they were added to the form on 10th April. I hope they get them as I would expect that a large majority we only suspected and doctors and paramedics would not attend Care Homes.

43914 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 14, #1339 of 1372 🔗

Went to a Tesco, Melton Mowbray. Know some of the staff there & was told that the one way arrows, queuing were being removed tomorrow. Tesco only do things corporately so this will be nationwide.

43917 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to smileymiley, 3, #1340 of 1372 🔗

That’s a good start! I presume the muzzles and face guards and plexiglass stays in place for the staff for now?

43945 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #1341 of 1372 🔗

No muzzles observed on the staff, 1 customer had one. Plexiglass remaining.
Got told off because I went straight to an empty till instead of going to the far end of the shop to wait to be told. They didn’t stop me though!

43949 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to smileymiley, 2, #1342 of 1372 🔗

Bravo. Are the little Hiters starting to shrink?

43964 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to smileymiley, #1343 of 1372 🔗

Customer is always right.

43987 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 1, #1344 of 1372 🔗

“Is the customer always right” was a question on a Pizza Hut application form when I was at university. I put no. Didn’t get the job.

43939 ▶▶ John P, replying to smileymiley, #1345 of 1372 🔗

We will see.

43941 ▶▶ annie, replying to smileymiley, 1, #1346 of 1372 🔗

Not in Gulag Wales, I suppose.

43922 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1347 of 1372 🔗

Surprise, surprise:

Brazil’s President Jair Bolsonaro tests positive for COVID-19

The sceptic president! How convenient!

43947 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1348 of 1372 🔗

He announced it himself to reporters shoving mics in his (masked) face. Clearly not on deaths door.

43995 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1349 of 1372 🔗

Statistically the chances of getting the virus are low… so anyone else think it is odd that so many presidents and other leaders have been infected?? Is it to make them more easily malleable to the NWO?

44017 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Carrie, 3, #1350 of 1372 🔗

I cannot speak with authority. But I’ve been a criminal defense attorney, and something that has always caused me to be skeptical of conspiracies is simple human nature. Keeping a secret is difficult. Even the smallest conspiracies fall apart. Massive conspiracies seem destined to fail. That’s the funny thing about bond villains. What happens when one of those henchmen goes to a bar and yaps to the pretty blond about the secret active-volcano lair? One of the better examples of a real “conspiracy,” lately, would be the behaviors of Joseph Epstein. Politicians can get away with a lot, and presumably secret organizations could get away with quite a lot as well… but it really is difficult to pull off grand schemes unnoticed.

More likely, groupthink sets in and people tend to be influenced by character traits that they all share. This explains the media both in the US and in the UK (I think).

You’re right, though, that a lot of political leaders have seemed to be infected. I think that may be a product of testing… you and I would generally have to stand in line and show symptoms.

44075 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Carrie, 1, #1351 of 1372 🔗

Has anyone else noticed the lack of very famous people, i.e. celebrities and actors rather than politicians, who have not been infected, and I’ve not heard of any that have died, with the exception of Eddie Large. There’s been no shock deaths of someone such as Clooney, for example.

44083 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, 1, #1352 of 1372 🔗

Seem to remember Tom Hanks caught it at the beginning of the ‘pandemic’??? And of course Prince Charles.. But yes, no deaths – they are maybe all taking hydroxychloroquine?

44011 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1353 of 1372 🔗

Perhaps a ploy by him to show no symptoms, speedy recovery etc?

43932 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1354 of 1372 🔗

Who the bloody hell do the BBC think they are!


Quote, not attributed to an “expert”, or anyone other than the reporter:

Only 22% of people testing positive for coronavirus reported having symptoms on the day of their test, according to the Office for National Statistics.
This hammers home the importance of “asymptomatic transmission” – spread of the virus by people who aren’t aware they’re carrying it.

Later in the article we have:

Asymptomatic transmission was warned of by the World Health Organization and the government’s scientific advisors, but they weren’t able to quantify how great a risk it was.

43938 ▶▶ John P, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1355 of 1372 🔗

“Asymptomatic transmission was warned of by the World Health Organization and the government’s scientific advisors, but they weren’t able to quantify how great a risk it was.”

Well, that’s a lie (they said the risk was very low), but what do you expect from the supine state broadcaster?

43946 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to John P, 5, #1356 of 1372 🔗

I love that. Asymptomatic transmission is the primary assumption upon which universal masking relies. Yet, we keep hearing about how “recent developments show the efficacy of universal masking,” while the actual science points in the opposite direction. What “recent developments” are being referred to, here? Political and social pressure…

And if history tells us one thing, it’s that political and social pressure makes for really good science!

43959 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1357 of 1372 🔗

Yeah, really annoyed me reading that, especially since the WHO says that asymptomatic spread is very rare.

43967 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1358 of 1372 🔗

Has anybody looked into asymptomatic transmission of the ‘flu or the common cold. Rhetorical question to an extent, because I assume nobody has bothered.

43969 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, #1359 of 1372 🔗

… don’t be silly, matt, of course they haven’t.

43989 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to John P, 8, #1360 of 1372 🔗

Historically, we haven’t gone around wearing masks for the same reason we don’t all go around wearing helmets and knee pads. In spite of what every workplace claims, “safety” is not our #1 priority. We view every aspect of our lives in the context of the rest of our lives.

Obviously, if masks are necessary for covid, they are also necessary for the flu. So why haven’t we worn masks every year since 1918? Because of context. Masks suck. They are uncomfortable and they are hot, they hide our faces, create a false sense that something is always wrong; and, we all know that they are unnecessary for the vast majority of people, even if we pretend that they actually do work.

Right now, we have been forced to forget all of the context of life and view everything solely as: “how does this impact, or how is it impacted by, covid.”

Easy enough example of that is those times when we go back to living our lives. Interact with someone at work, or at a kid’s baseball game, or at a restaurant or anywhere else… after a while, you again focus on whatever it is you’re there for, and you forget that everything has to revolve around covid.

I have very little doubt that as soon as the legal proclamations are removed , the vast majority of people will spring back into life as normal. This situation is artificial – for everyone who is talking about “the new normal” or everything having been changed by covid, I say nonsense! That is only possible when you eliminate all context and covid is your only consideration. As soon as we are permitted to weigh various risks and values and needs against one another, covid will take its proper place right next to the flu and we will live our lives accordingly.

43985 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 3, #1361 of 1372 🔗

Nobody has looked into anything. It’s like civilisation died and everything is being relearned with this new virus.

43935 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1362 of 1372 🔗


Short video showing Sen Scott Jensen MD giving some serious concern to the manipulation of c19 death cert reporting. Unusually American doctors have received instructions how to fill in the form. For maximum profit or something else.

44086 ▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Basics, #1363 of 1372 🔗

Yes. Let’s not forget, the USA is another country in very important respects, not least their for-profit, differently incentivised health care system.

43937 WillemKoppenhol, 3, #1364 of 1372 🔗

The Dutch version of PHE, the RIVM, now admits they won’t be able to properly secure the Dutch corona website “Infection Radar”. According to Dutch national (state) tv news (computer translation):

RIVM website “Infection Radar” only operational again after summer

The Infection Radar site, with which RIVM wanted to map new outbreaks of the coronavirus, will remain out of the service for the time being. RIVM expects to have the site operational again in September at the earliest.

A month ago, the NOS reported that Infection Radar contained a vulnerability that could allow someone to view the completed forms of other users. RIVM then quickly took the site offline.

Participants in Infection Radar indicated once a week whether they had corona complaints. When registering, they also provided information about their personal and medical situation.

(Original Dutch link: https://nos.nl/artikel/2339872-rivm-site-infectieradar-pas-na-zomer-weer-operationeel.html )

So, yet another COVID-19 plan by a European state goes under because the SS “State to the Rescue” hit an iceberg…

43944 annie, 9, #1365 of 1372 🔗

Flat earth ‘a danger to shipping’ President of the Royal Society says.
‘Seeing that the earth is obviously flat, it’s equally obvious that any ship sailing over the horizon will fall off the edge.
‘The fact that this has never been observed to happen is irrelevant. All sea-going traffic must be banned immediately. It’s too dangerous. We must follow the science.’

43948 annie, replying to annie, 8, #1366 of 1372 🔗

Notice in loo in car park: ‘These toilets are not inspected and cleaned after every use. You use them at your own risk.’

Coming soon: the new blockbuster film, Indiana Jones and the Toilet of Doom.

43968 ▶▶ John P, replying to annie, #1367 of 1372 🔗

What on earth do you eat in Wales?

44004 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to John P, 2, #1368 of 1372 🔗

My knowledge of british cuisine relies 100% on the following: Aubrey/Maturin, Horatio Hornblower, and the 1980’s productions of sherlock holmes and poirot.

I’m assuming things have improved?

44102 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to RyanM, #1369 of 1372 🔗

Gosh, you should come visit sometime! We have (had) one of the most eclectic, exciting food scenes in the world!

43982 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to annie, 1, #1370 of 1372 🔗

So old normal then?

43961 Ian, 1, #1371 of 1372 🔗
44014 Sarigan, 1, #1372 of 1372 🔗

I anticipate many more to come in my industry but a big US and Caribbean tour operator has announced they are ceasing trading. They said due to Corona Virus (we all know it is due to lockdown and Govt. policies) but very sad after 27 years of business. Multiple job losses, cancelled holidays etc.



158 users made 1,344 comments today.

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