2020-07-07

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/07/latest-news-69/
Published2020-07-07T16:29:19
Last updated2020-07-07T17:11:08
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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43974 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #1 of 1906 🔗
43975 ▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 69, #2 of 1906 🔗

ONE OF THE COMMENTS:

David Martin
7 Jul 2020 6:39AM
I cannot help but suspect that the increased rate of testing in Leicester has led to to the local shutdown there. More testing means, unsurprisingly, that it will be found that more people will have the virus.
What has not been made clear is how many of those testing positive in Leicester are really ill and how many simply have a mild form of the disease.
I would be more than a little reluctant to submit to a test because an increase in the number of infections is used by those in authority, it seems, to spread fear in society and take actions which further restrict our freedoms.
I would go as far as to say rather being a selfish thing to refuse the test, it is a sensible thing to do to avoid adding to this monster that has been created by a government that is seriously out of its depth.

44388 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to HawkAnalyst, 9, #3 of 1906 🔗

I love that people are starting to get this other than us

44005 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #4 of 1906 🔗

Spotted this in the comments:

No way will half the nation get up before 9am on a day the otherwise have no need to do so. 
Well, I’m damn sure I won’t at least – This must be what’s mean by an ‘Intrusive’ technique.

That was my immediate reaction too!

44079 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #6 of 1906 🔗

Hahaha.

43977 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #7 of 1906 🔗

HUGO RIFKIND – In-your-face rulebreakers are out of control

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/in-your-face-rulebreakers-are-out-of-control-2m8rfg7hj

AGAIN THE COMMENTS!

43997 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #8 of 1906 🔗

Unfortunately even the comments are behind the paywall.

44023 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #9 of 1906 🔗

Would you be able to give us a brief gist, without cutting-and-pasting?

44307 ▶▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 14, #10 of 1906 🔗

Here are some of the best, sorry for the delay!

Right Flanking
1 DAY AGO
The bottom line Hugo, is that most people now know that COVID doesn’t threaten them. They’re not that worried if they get it. And they’re right to think that because the truth (that the government doesn’t like to publicise) is that your chances of dying from COVID or even being seriously ill from it are minuscule unless you are in a very small subset of the population that is vulnerable. And it’s that dawning of realisation that coronavirus isn’t Ebola or smallpox or bubonic plague combined with a increasing suspicion that the authorities have both overreacted and been incompetent that leads to a little rebellion, an urge to regain control of your own decisions and risk assessment. And my guess is that the more the busybodies exhort people to wear a mask or keep you distance or keep working from home the more likely it is that they won’t.

·
Moor Park
1 DAY AGO
Odd – I can’t remember Hugo having a go about social distancing at the BLM mob, or the Met police clapping on Westminster Bridge. Both of these rule-breaking incidents occurred when the virus was spreading more quickly.

·

Lady P
1 DAY AGO
Hugo, the nation stuck its fingers up social distancing about 1 month ago with the BLM protests. I don’t know why Soho shocked you and made you wonder about infecting grannies but not that?
·

DB London
1 DAY AGO
For four months, the under 35s, who have a minimal risk of succumbing to COVID-19, have followed the rules in order to protect the vulnerable, even as they see the government disobeying. However, there is a limit to how long we should expect young people to keep their lives on hold for others. 6 months? 12 months? 3 years? I don’t know what the solution is, but I can appreciate their frustration

Mackem
1 DAY AGO
I was in Soho on Sat eve and the pics splashed around don’t surprise me as there were press photographers around all afternoon and eve just waiting for the photo the crowd unfortunately provided. However, that was not my experience; earlier in the eve (I left at 8pm) everyone was well behaved and I was impressed how social distancing was being followed and how the bars were so well organised. Staff happy to be back at work and happy to have us there to serve albeit in a very different way to “normal”. But people behaving well and following guidelines isn’t newsworthy and doesn’t make a photo opportunity for a front page …..That’s our media these days …..

44454 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #11 of 1906 🔗

Thanks. Even though some of them seem to accept the need for the anti-social distancing measures, the overall tone is encouraging!

44538 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #12 of 1906 🔗

Spot on first comment. Good that they’re bringing up those clapping on Westminster bridge – that was the first time I noticed they were being selective with the “guidelines”

44551 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #13 of 1906 🔗

Did you miss Neil Ferguson and Dominic Cummings giving two fingers to the guidelines?

44693 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rowan, 1, #14 of 1906 🔗

The Westminster bridge clapping happened before Professor Lockdown and Cummings gave their own two fingers

43978 steve, replying to steve, 31, #15 of 1906 🔗

While Simon Dolan lost the first round.
It basically confirmed that the Public Health Act, used to close the country, was “legally used” according to the judge.

However Section 20 on that act says the council needs to compensate any business it closes due to controlling infection diseases.

It needs a group litigation pile on with businesses all suing their council.

44018 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to steve, 20, #16 of 1906 🔗

But the Councils are not using the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984.

I know this as I’ve been in communication with a few local authorities around this way and have had some replies and waiting for more – all the correspondence has been posted on here as and when they happen.

They also admit guidelines are not law and not enforceable but they will do it anyway. They cannot also supply any risks assessments done to back-up their pre-opening checklists, operating restrictions etc.

The council Environmental Health Officers visit premises, give verbal “advice” and basically browbeat and bully the owner/operator into adhering to whatever they are told to do by the EHO verbally on threat of being shut down.

But the councils do not have the power to do this verbally as the legislation says everything MUST be in writing and a sous ay the local authority has to pay compensation too cover any monetary losses caused by the restrictions.

There is also a long list of protocols to be followed prior to restrictions being placed onto the business including tests (which don’t exist), written notices as per the Secretary of Health’s format (don’t exist), notices signed by a Justice of the Peace and served on businesses individually but again these are not followed.

The owners/operators do not know enough of the law to stand up and fight them (I’ve spoken to a few so know this for a fact) and the Federation of Small Businesses has not issued any guidance to their members (or hadn’t last time I asked a shop owner) and have ignored my correspondence so don’t care.

Similar protocols exist for isolating individuals and again compensation must be paid but self-isolation is voluntary and no compensation due which is why this option is pushed by Government even though it has no force in law.

It’s all smoke and mirrors by central and local government.

44096 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Awkward Git, 14, #17 of 1906 🔗

I spoke to a lawyer and while they said on the face of it, the council are liable it will take a test case to sort it out. The “lockdown compensation” train is just starting.

I think it will take a law firm to get some people together and start it. As you say individually the council are just avoiding the issue and swatting away the small business owners who have been thrown under the bus.

44125 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to steve, 6, #18 of 1906 🔗

All said small business owners need to do is organise and unite.

44156 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #19 of 1906 🔗

I wonder if doing that would be a better approach for Simon Dolan than going back to a bought-and-sold judge?

44169 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 1, #20 of 1906 🔗

Good idea!

44241 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to annie, 1, #21 of 1906 🔗

I would suggest it to him, but I’m sure he knows what he is doing. Plus I’m not on Twitter/fb etc.

44413 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to steve, 2, #22 of 1906 🔗

I will suggest it! An Annie may mail at a Simon!

44363 ▶▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to steve, 3, #23 of 1906 🔗

A US style ‘class action lawsuit’ should be on their mind for last orders, methinks

44107 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #24 of 1906 🔗

They might have all these procedures internally to shut the business down but the act itself is faulty straight forward. I hope the Council’s and government and half the cabinet spend the rest of their days getting pummelled in court. This disaster our handling is right up there with tony Blair and his “dodgy dossier war”

43979 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 11, #25 of 1906 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/06/government-stop-publishing-daily-tally-people-tested-coronavirus/

Government to stop publishing daily tally of people being tested for coronavirus

44057 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HawkAnalyst, 9, #26 of 1906 🔗

So we can’t blame future stupid lockdowns on increased testing. I never knew trust could decline to negative territory.

44095 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #27 of 1906 🔗

But it reads the other way round. If they’re testing people more than once and publishing the number of tests done, rather than the number of people tested, the number will be much higher.

44088 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #28 of 1906 🔗

Baroness Harding, …. defended the decision not to test close contacts of those with the virus, arguing that it might undermine instructions to self-isolate.

Then what’s the point of testing??

44250 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #29 of 1906 🔗

Her name rings a bell. Covering up child abuse iirc

44696 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to anon, 2, #30 of 1906 🔗

Nowt to do with child abuse. She was CEO of Talk Talk which had a major security breach where the details of their customers were compromised. Was fined by the Information Commission.

44797 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Bart Simpson, #31 of 1906 🔗

whoops sry who am I thinking of..

45826 ▶▶▶ It doesn't add up..., replying to Cheezilla, #32 of 1906 🔗

Seems insupportable as the French say. If you test positive, surely an incentive to isolate? If you test negative, why should you isolate anyway if the test is any good?

If they claim it takes a couple of day for the newly infected to show positive on the test, then delay the test (which will be the normal case anyway). But surely it’s an incentive to have a test if it allows you back out again if you are negative.

44293 ▶▶ John Mirra, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #33 of 1906 🔗

This could be also part of a plan to stop media sensationalism.

My theory is that Boris and the gangs plan is to now insist they did what they could, without admitting the lockdown was a shambles, while slowly they unlock the country regardless of any media pressure. And the best way to avoid the pressure is to make reporting on numbers harder.

They can of course occasionally let slip some figures as justification for some local lockdowns to appease the more fearful members of the public, or leak some reports to justify any actions they are taking if they agree with them.

44553 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John Mirra, 6, #34 of 1906 🔗

Has Bill gates approved the government’s escape route?

44861 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to John Mirra, 2, #35 of 1906 🔗

That was also my theory up until a week or so ago, after but the Leicester lockdown (with the suggestion that it won’t be the only one) combined with what appears to be increased media agitation for compulsory mask-wearing over the last few days, I really don’t know what the government’s plan is and am not sure they do either…

I have a horrible feeling that the WHO report on airborne transmission (on the BBC’s site today) will be used as the trump card to justify compulsory masks. The only “logical” reason for this (from a narrative-maintaining, political damage-limitation perspective) is an attempt – likely a futile one, regardless – to appease the many voices in the media who think the unlocking is “reckless”, “too soon”, etc. etc. by doing something that appears to be cautious and “following the science”.

44903 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Drawde927, #36 of 1906 🔗

Plus think of the economy. Since we no longer make many cars or aero engines, compulsory masks will be a major growth industry.

43980 Ryan, replying to Ryan, 13, #37 of 1906 🔗

In the Dolan case, given the Government admitting that there was no legal requirement for schools to close and SAGE advice being that school closure/ openings do little to transmit the Wuhan Flu – simple question – why haven’t at least some schools had the balls to reopen ?

Or have I missed something?

44101 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ryan, #38 of 1906 🔗

Good point!

44109 ▶▶ steve, replying to Ryan, 18, #39 of 1906 🔗

Easy. Teachers unions all hate the Tories and they are all sitting at home on full pay.

44193 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to steve, 2, #40 of 1906 🔗

And teachers hate teaching, so what would you do?

44151 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ryan, 8, #41 of 1906 🔗

Insurance.
Lots of small businesses round our way want to reopen, but can’t because there us no way they can implement the guidelines.
Yes, guidelines. That’s the fiendish part of it. It isn’t law, so the government isn’t responsible, but if you don’t obey the guidelines, your insurers won’t cover you, so you can’t operate.

Can insurance be crowd- funded?

44191 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Ryan, 2, #42 of 1906 🔗

Some have reopened.

44312 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Ryan, 3, #43 of 1906 🔗

Tories are evil therefore everything they might suggest, do the opposite. That’s basically the thought process.

44557 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Youth_Unheard, #44 of 1906 🔗

Indeed that is a fine plan.

44381 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Ryan, 2, #45 of 1906 🔗

Apparently the majority of teachers actually hate kids, and don’t care about their education.

Who knew?

44552 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ryan, #46 of 1906 🔗

Probably doesn’t seem much point now. Normally, summer hols would start after next week. If anything’s been put in place for catching up in August, I don’t think we’ve been told much about it, other than a bit of noise in the press about free meals. Doesn’t mean to say schools haven’t been quietly getting on with preparing stuff though.

43981 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #47 of 1906 🔗

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-wants-wealth-tax-to-pay-for-coronavirus-crisis-tdwctnnm3

Labour wants wealth tax to pay for coronavirus crisis | News | The Times

44026 ▶▶ annie, replying to HawkAnalyst, 14, #48 of 1906 🔗

Now there’s a surprise.

44059 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HawkAnalyst, 11, #49 of 1906 🔗

What wealth? Thanks to anal retentives like them and the government, they’ve destroyed wealth. Inconvenient that.

44098 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 11, #50 of 1906 🔗

Apparently several billionaires have increased their fortune by millions during this fiasco. It would be very fitting to start with them but I wouldn’t hold much hope.

44130 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #51 of 1906 🔗

Nor me. They’ll be offshore anyway.

44181 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #52 of 1906 🔗

Nah, ain’t gonna happen. They’ll leave and of course what about Labour’s donors? They won’t be able to bite the hand that feeds them.

44197 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #53 of 1906 🔗

Who cares if they leave?

44402 ▶▶▶ Richard Riewer, replying to Nick Rose, #54 of 1906 🔗

An Inconvenient Truth.

44195 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to HawkAnalyst, -3, #55 of 1906 🔗

I’ve no problem with that.

44214 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Rowan, 3, #56 of 1906 🔗

Why? Also, define”wealth”

44563 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to matt, 3, #57 of 1906 🔗

Wealthy is having more money than me. That do you?

44586 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Rowan, #58 of 1906 🔗

It does and it’s exactly what I thought the real answer would be. Thank you for the honesty.

43983 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #59 of 1906 🔗

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/pupils-shun-extra-wellbeing-lessons-8hmfngfbl

Pupils shun extra wellbeing lessons | News | The Times

THE COMMENTS!

44015 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #60 of 1906 🔗

Could you include a couple please Hawk?

44313 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to T. Prince, 5, #61 of 1906 🔗

· Here are some of the best, sorry for the delay!
·

Midlander
1 DAY AGO
‘…expected pupils to show emotional issues…’ Oh please. Children are resilient – they are not going to be traumatised by a few months off school. What is with this endless search to identify non-existant emotional damage? In encouraging this constant navel-gazing, we risk a generation of fragile, vulnerable children, unable to cope when life throws up a real problem.
·

Canada Goose
1 DAY AGO
The late Vera Lynn’s generation lived through six years of uncertainty, separation from loved ones – children evacuated, mainly menfolk away fighting, death, destruction of homes, loss of jobs and hoped for futures. They came out of it and built the Welfare State and the NHS. All we’ve been asked to do is sit on the sofa for three months. Get a grip.

·

John Woodhouse
1 DAY AGO
Why are so many people trying to talk us into a mental health crisis. If it continues, folk with real mental health issues are going to be missed in the deluge. It’s ok to be sad and bitter if things go wrong. It’s a natural reaction. It’s not ok to be constantly sad when there is no reason. PTSD is awful, but you don’t have it if someone upset you on Twitter. Come on, let’s get a grip.
·

Stephen Broadhead
1 DAY AGO
61% of ‘experts’ expected problems and 94% of school heads said they’d seen no problems, and the kids, bless them, just want to crack on. This confirms that much of the counselling and wellness industry is a self-licking lollipop that needs to convince people they need help when they don’t.

44403 ▶▶▶▶ Richard Riewer, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #62 of 1906 🔗

The people who run the Wellness Industry need help.

44412 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #63 of 1906 🔗

Plus of course they want the counseling contracts with the local schools. Pfui!

43986 John P, replying to John P, 6, #64 of 1906 🔗

A report on Simon Dolan’s court case in the Critic:

https://thecritic.co.uk/no-right-answers-only-judgments/

44105 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 2, #65 of 1906 🔗

Excellent article.

44144 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 2, #66 of 1906 🔗

As it says, roll on the public enquiry.

43991 Oarison, replying to Oarison, 44, #67 of 1906 🔗

My mental health is starting to take a real battering too. I have lost so many friends to bedwetting, still refusing to come out of their houses.

44141 ▶▶ annie, replying to Oarison, 17, #68 of 1906 🔗

Get some new friends! The world contains many sane people, but you have to look for them! Sanity starts on this site, spread the word, dump the zombies, live again!

44199 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Oarison, 5, #69 of 1906 🔗

Lockdownitis may be incurable, at least for some.

44237 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Rowan, 1, #70 of 1906 🔗

I suspect a strong element in this is the balance of control between the conscious and subconscious mind. The subconscious is firmly controlling the sheep. A strong instinctive self-defense mechanism has kicked-in, similar to the kind of response you may get if you tell the same people that having fewer children might be more effective than paying for carbon-offset gas. When this instinct defends itself as the truth becomes clearer, we will probably find that the LS enemies become targets. We are still just animals mostly.

44243 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to TheBluePill, 9, #71 of 1906 🔗

The fear message is very effective. Weeks before I discovered this place, I’d been working out that it was largely nonsense and the fear seemed completely unjustified. To be honest, mostly because only two weeks in I was beginning to think that we only had a couple more weeks before economic disaster, so I went looking. I’m completely confident that I know more about this bloody virus than most, but I do still watch the BBC regularly and so my monkey brain still tries to tell me to be scared.

44264 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to matt, 11, #72 of 1906 🔗

Give up the bbc big guy

Why do you pay these pricks to propagandise and control you?

bbc has a long history of allowing and covering up CHILD ABUSE

44272 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to anon, 3, #73 of 1906 🔗

I’m getting there. But what would I do without my hour in the morning of raising my blood pressure over a cup of coffee?

44318 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to matt, 2, #74 of 1906 🔗

you’d have a lower blood pressure without listening to the bbc that’s for sure!!

44580 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Sue, 1, #75 of 1906 🔗

I restrict myself to about ten minutes of BBC a week. This is just to remind myself, that it is still as bad as ever. I know it shouldn’t, but it still surprises me, when I notice that the Beeb still manages to sink ever lower.

44323 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to matt, 2, #76 of 1906 🔗

Ha! I think my blood pressure is always high now with occasional lulls reading through comments such as these

44583 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 4, #77 of 1906 🔗

Have a look at the Guardian comments section. At least you can raise your blood pressure free!

If that merely makes you despair, there’s the Telegraph. Some of the commenters are so smug and self-righteous they must raise my BP at least 10 points.

44414 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to anon, 1, #78 of 1906 🔗

Remember Jimmy Saville, OBE, Jim’ll Fix It?

44799 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to annie, #79 of 1906 🔗

chief wizard pedo in the bbc at the time. plenty under him and still knocking about at the bbc

44310 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to matt, 5, #80 of 1906 🔗

Like you I keep an eye on the BBC, usually first port of call to see what they are up to now. The propaganda seems to be getting more and more transparent. Similarly to you, even though I know the facts, at the end of a BBC article I still sometimes panic and think “I wonder if I have got this all wrong”. The thought normally persists for no more than two seconds before logic overcomes it. Sheep never have this doubt. Like blind support for their football team and hatred of the local rival supporters, or voting for the red/blue team blindly every election, their faith overrides all else.

44317 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #81 of 1906 🔗

Glad it’s not just me thinking that after seeing hysterical story after one another. But that’s the thing, if enough evidence would come to the fore proving us wrong, we would accept it! Whereas all the lockdown luvvies no matter what emerges is simply irrelevant to them.

44415 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #82 of 1906 🔗

‘Faith’ is the word. Toby, could you re-publish that excellent article on Covid as the new, intolerant, persecuting religion?.

44352 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 7, #83 of 1906 🔗

The message is certainly strong. I had a bad dry cough around April time, not something I’d normally bother about, but this this one made me think about what would happen if I died. I have a 4yr old daughter so it matters a bit more that I try to stay alive these days. I spent the night sleeping on my front and the next day realised that I was just being daft over a wee cough.

The good news is that I’m still here and fully recovered but I was definitely affected by the constant fearmongering.

44405 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #84 of 1906 🔗

You might have had the infection. I had a weird sudden chest infection in mid March. It was v. mild, didn’t stop me going about my business (wasn’t one of those “hibernate under the duvet for two weeks” things). Lasted no more than 2 or 3 days. But it wasn’t imaginary.

44590 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #85 of 1906 🔗

My son and DiL were both ill in January. She had a couple of weeks off work with a bad cough but she is normally susceptible to bad chest infections. He just felt “off” and assumed his out-of-sortsness was due to post-Christmas detox!

44416 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #86 of 1906 🔗

Too true, particularly as lists of Covid symptoms are careful to include those of every trifling ailment known to mankind.

44377 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 13, #87 of 1906 🔗

I catch the odd clip. No lizard brain engages. I just get RAGE. BLAZING RAGE. Seriously I have to leave rooms where the BBC is happening because things get thrown – much bigger things than the flipflops I started with.

44588 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Farinances, 6, #88 of 1906 🔗

Went to the pub on Sunday and was surrounded by three monster tv screens screens all spewing out the BBC COVID NEWS. Had to leave and I went half a mile down the road, only to find the next pub hadn’t reopened. Went home.

44594 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rowan, 6, #89 of 1906 🔗

I hate pubs and cafes that have the rolling news going on in the corner! It’s completely unnecessary and, worse, it draws your eye and distracts from the conversation.

44230 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Oarison, 6, #90 of 1906 🔗

Hang in there. Losing friends by being sceptical on so many things we are told to believe does get easier.

Here’s a cracking quote from Eleanor Roosevelt that helped me recently:

‘Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people’

44303 ▶▶ John Mirra, replying to Oarison, 6, #91 of 1906 🔗

I learnt who my real friends were. Some of them are still pretty scared, but they understand more than most that we can’t give into fear fully. Heck a few visited my home a few nights ago and one of them I didn’t expect to at all as him and his girlfriend have been a bit more paranoid than most.

Many of my so called friends basically gave up/in, without questioning anything publicly, and seem annoyed by any challenges to the main stream media story. At least 1 was a hypocrite and saw another friend 30+ miles away during the midst of lockdown whilst publicly decrying anyone breaking it.

43993 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 59, #92 of 1906 🔗

‘We have found only two randomised control trials in the primary literature on the use of face masks to reduce onward transmission; one was underpowered, and the other showed significant reduction when adjusted for actual mask usage in a posthoc analysis.’

‘Congratulations Venki Ramakrishnan. You win bedwetter-of-the-week.’

‘Bedwetter-of-the-week’? This must be one of the understatements of the year! This apparently eminent scientist with his flimsy evidence and ill-formed opinions will doubtless provide the fig leaf for the Government soon to force us into muzzles everywhere outside our own homes.

It’s good to point to the weak research but as many people including me pointed out BTL on the previous post, just follow the money!

This is absolutely not ‘bedwetting’ but something much more sinister. The epidemic is over but the totalitarianism continues.

44007 ▶▶ Marcus, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 49, #93 of 1906 🔗

Every morning it’s still a fresh new hell. So our apparently Nobel Prize winning Prof’s argument is:

  • They’re doing it over there, so should the English
  • This is the ‘new normal’ – get used to it
  • Not enough of the Covid propaganda has been pro-mask
  • Wearing a mask is now comparable to wearing a seatbelt
  • Those refusing to wear a mask are to blame for this mess.

You’re right – when authoritarianism like this comes from the influential elite, it’s worse than bed-wetting.

44140 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Marcus, 10, #94 of 1906 🔗

Wasn’t it in the same announcement that he said the earth is flat, you can get sunbeams from cucumbers, lead can be turned into gold, and snake oil is a sovereign remedy for chickenpox?
Follow the science!

45617 ▶▶▶▶ Gorgeous George, replying to annie, #95 of 1906 🔗

The earth is not a perfect sphere, which is the conspiracy.

44324 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Marcus, 5, #96 of 1906 🔗

I called him ( Ramakrishnan) a gobshite on yesterday’s page, and compared him to Josef Mengele and Ewen Cameron. See no reason to change my mind.

44008 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 15, #97 of 1906 🔗

Nullius in verba, Scoldilocks The Doom Goblin and her death cult are losing traction so this is next.

44012 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 4, #98 of 1906 🔗

Uptick for Scoldilocks!

44137 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Liam, 4, #99 of 1906 🔗

Stolen but still a good one! I think Doom Goblin captures her essence and has a nice Troll element too.

44326 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #100 of 1906 🔗

Good stuff. I think I heard ‘the Tinpot Despot’ on UKColumn too.

44046 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #101 of 1906 🔗

Should it be “Quack Doctor of the Week”?

44108 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 12, #102 of 1906 🔗

And yet o n 6th July, following a FoI request, the Department of Health have admitted they hold no evidence to show that face masks or face coverings prevent the transmission of SARS-CoV-2. So why wear a mask?

44179 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Carrie, 1, #103 of 1906 🔗

Have you a link to that Carrie?

44189 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to smileymiley, 2, #104 of 1906 🔗

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/evidence_supporting_the_use_of_f
Someone posted it on Toby’s Twitter account this evening. I found the above link by googling..
At the top of the link it says they do not have the information requested…

44468 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 1, #105 of 1906 🔗

Thanks Carrie – how dishonest of them.

44628 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #106 of 1906 🔗

From one of the above papers, this was the best of their “proof” I could spot. See paragraph 13 here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/892043/S0484_Transmission_of_SARS-CoV-2_and_Mitigating_Measures.pdf

The whole report reads like thir advice is based on a bunch of hearsay and copying other countries. Doesn’t sound very scientific to me!

44204 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, 1, #107 of 1906 🔗

Because I say so!

44249 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Carrie, 5, #108 of 1906 🔗

WHO have done a complete about turn and guess what, the virus is transmitted in air…

44256 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 2, #109 of 1906 🔗

Link, please?

Viruses are not transmitted in air.

44325 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to T. Prince, 3, #110 of 1906 🔗

If that were true then they could lock us up forever…

44371 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #111 of 1906 🔗

There should be two separate categories.

Bedwetter of the Week
And Shill/Liar of the Week (most weeks this would have to go to Handjob, I concede, but there are often a few heavy contenders)

44546 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #112 of 1906 🔗

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-uk-news-professor-chris-whitty-no-masks-advice-a9374086.html

So 4 months on:

Still not sure how many are asymptomatic
Still not sure if you can catch it twice
Still not sure what the ifr is

Despite tonnes of data that means we do know all of these.

But yep, somehow enough “research” has been done for a complete U turn on facemasks. Which coincidentally keep the fear factor high.

They must think we are absolute idiots.

44631 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Invunche, 3, #113 of 1906 🔗

Unfortunately, most (other!) people prove them right.

43996 assoc, replying to assoc, 19, #114 of 1906 🔗

Toby, I must agree strongly with much of your ‘rant’, especially point 15 pointing out that this left wing drivel will just serve to alienate the ordinary voter. Just look at Labour tearing itself apart over Israel (it will be Kashmir next), none of which has any relevance to the vast majority of the electorate. I too think that Biden’s adherence to this gobshite will keep Trump in the White House and, unless the Tory party stab him in the back will keep Boris in number ten, though God knows he doesn’t deserve it.
Keep up the good work!

44319 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to assoc, 5, #115 of 1906 🔗

We really need some alternative brexit party ish thing to come through, somewhere near the centre ground for all those who cannot ever support labour or the Tories for the largest act of self harm in history.

43998 DJC, replying to DJC, 11, #116 of 1906 🔗

A revolting article from Dublin’s Irish Times. It is interesting though to get a glimpse into the mechanics of the propaganda machine used to manipulate the public into accepting ever increasing restrictions on their liberty. You have to wonder if there is any end to this totalitarian madness.But they seem hell bent on pushing it as far as they can.

44106 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DJC, 3, #117 of 1906 🔗

Oh yuk!
I can’t stand ads, so I don’t listen to radio and my tv licence died, so I’ve no idea what “normal” people voluntarily subject themselves to day in and day out. No wonder they’re so compliant.

44135 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #118 of 1906 🔗

Same here. I’ve seen the effect of unremitting Coronaporn on people who used to be quite sane.
Am I the only person who’s given up watching Channel 4 and all its baby channels because of the revolting little message in the top left-hand corner? I know I’m not missing much, because most of their programmes are hogwash anyway, and those that aren’t get repeated.
Instead, I watch Dr Finlay’s Casebook on YouTube, harking back to the days when doctors cared about people.

44208 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #119 of 1906 🔗

You are doing the right thing, but if you really need to know you can always visit the BBC website. On second thoughts, best if don’t bother.

44632 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rowan, 1, #120 of 1906 🔗

Thanks. I can get the same nonsense at a glance from the Grad. I usually have a look first thing so I know what’s the lie of the day.

44001 John P, replying to John P, 11, #121 of 1906 🔗

I can see why you make light of it Toby, but Leicester people being treated like lepers by the rest of the country is not funny. Friends and family have had their holidays cancelled. Both of my sisters and my sister’s best friend are all now unable to go on holiday due to cancellations.

How’s those plans for your trip to Venice coming along BTW?

As the Telegraph article hints, it is not actually illegal (at least not as yet) for people from that part of the world to leave the red zone. The only limit is that they cannot stay overnight anywhere overnight outside the zone.

The police were apparently stopping motorists leaving the zone and asking them where they were going at the weekend. However, they cannot stop them from going to pubs if they want to. I was told this by my sister, who thought they were doing it as a deterrent.

At the weekend seven of the eight the Leicester city testing stations were located in a small area in the high density Asian part of the city. The local newspaper was today headlining that the textile industry was not to blame for the “surge”.

44103 ▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 2, #122 of 1906 🔗

How well liked is the local paper? Is it doing a good job given the exceptional circumstances of lockdown you are in?

44308 ▶▶ John Mirra, replying to John P, 1, #123 of 1906 🔗

I mean do the police actual have the right to know where they are going at all? As far as my understanding of traffic stops goes you don’t have to tell them where you are going or coming from, but you do have to provide registration details and your name.

Is this part of new COVID laws that were forced into effect that the police/state has to know where you are going at all times?

44599 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John Mirra, 1, #124 of 1906 🔗

The plan is to monitor and record everyone’s movements/location 24/7. This will be achieved by an implanted/injected chip and through saturation coverage of 5G. Of course, Bill Gates is in on this one.

44633 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rowan, #125 of 1906 🔗

A lot of signs seem to point that way and there’s certainly no evidence to prove otherwise.

44002 Victoria, #126 of 1906 🔗

Listen to Toby’s video ‘this is why we need FreeSpeechUnion.org’

https://twitter.com/SpeechUnion

44003 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 25, #127 of 1906 🔗

This survey further emphasizes that the disease is complex and its progress and impact still unclear.

Aaaaaaaaand there it is. The reason why any and all discussion on this topic is banned. The reason why no one must challenge the party line. Because doing so means we can work together and understand this virus. They don’t want that. They want us scared of the dark. They want this virus to be a boogeyman. You can’t be scared of what you know. But the unknown is a rope around your neck that leads you in any direction they desire.

44110 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 9, #128 of 1906 🔗

‘complex’? How about ‘far less dangerous than we have led you to believe’?

45641 ▶▶▶ Gorgeous George, replying to Carrie, #129 of 1906 🔗

A hoax that’s called.

44111 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #130 of 1906 🔗

You only need to look at a few graphs of the official stats to see that its progress is perfectly clear!

44009 Hoppy Uniatz, 15, #131 of 1906 🔗

Pleased to note even the Grim Reaper is taking time out to chill and down a few pints now, this explains the falling death rate

44013 duncanpt, replying to duncanpt, 1, #132 of 1906 🔗

re “The Barrel of a Gun”1/ Please tell me that The Professor of Whiteness Studies at the University of Central Bedfordshire isn’t real

2/ The Cancelled Generals also have a new recruiting office available on Parler. Cancelling isn’t as effective as it was.

44030 ▶▶ annie, replying to duncanpt, 16, #133 of 1906 🔗

For the great and glorious history of Whiteness Studies, you could start at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiteness_studies

Or, for a piquant contrast, you could feast your eyes on this:
https://www.bcu.ac.uk/social-sciences/research/identities-and-inequalities/research-clusters/black-studies

No wonder so many of our young people are such clueless wankers. If you brain hasn’t been turned into grey mush by the time you leave school, your time in one if these these so-called universities will most certainly finish the job.

44113 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to duncanpt, 4, #134 of 1906 🔗

Prof of Whiteness Studies sounds like something straight out of a Discworld novel.

44016 O.D., replying to O.D., 41, #135 of 1906 🔗

I just wanted to point out that even as I was going through massive pains to come up with my best estimate of the U.S. rate, the CDC beat me to it. I came up with 0.004 and if you look at their current best estimate, it’s the same number. They released it before I published my blog post, and I feel silly having gone so far to “prove” what the CDC had already said.

With our current numbers of “deaths” and “cases/infections” (they aren’t clear on that) 130,000/3,000,000 = 0.043 so both the CDC et. al. (and me) are aiming lower than that already. They estimated 23M have been infected which is how they came up with the guess of 0.004.

Note that is less than half the 0.01 for seasonal flu. Here in Oregon we have 200 “deaths” (80 outside LCFs) and 10K “cases” which gives us a rate of 0.02. However, in the last two flu seasons we had one with 530 deaths and one with 14,344 infections. Did we even notice? Nope, the state hummed on as usual.

It’s all madness, even in places where the virus barely dipped a toe in the water. Everyone everywhere needs to just stop complying with all this stupid garbage mandated idiocy and let them try to arrest us all. I’ll sacrifice myself on the front line, as due to the lockdown and the generally terrible state of things in the U.S. I already have basically nothing to lose.

44019 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to O.D., 1, #136 of 1906 🔗

Surely you need to x 100 to get a percentage for your figures and they would be based on CFR rather than IFR. 200 deaths from 10K cases is 2%. Sorry to question your figures but I though seasonal flu is also 0.1% not 0.01%.

44022 ▶▶▶ O.D., replying to Sarigan, 5, #137 of 1906 🔗

Ah, that’s what I thought as well, but the actual math didn’t work out using the 100x. I was confused so I just used the actual numbers rather than multiplying by 100. My understanding is that seasonal flu is 1%, or 0.01. I’m NOT good at math and I always appreciate a second opinion, thank you!

44024 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to O.D., 6, #138 of 1906 🔗

Not a problem and completely concur – it is all madness! I go by the 0.26% IFR as all indications suggest it is pretty spot on so in line with a bad flu season but absolutely no reason whatsoever to inflict what they have on us all.

44025 ▶▶ matt, replying to O.D., 25, #139 of 1906 🔗

Two of Toby’s posts today work together in a really interesting way – the 81% asymptomatic rate in care homes and the National Geographic piece on the “use a computer to think of a number and then double it” approach to the IFR.

I’m quite sure that the main reason so many elderly were shipped out of hospitals into care homes was that everyone assumed that, if you were old and you had the virus, you must be sick and if you weren’t sick, you couldn’t have the virus. It’s understandable (though not forgivable) in the context of what we thought we knew at the time.

Meanwhile, if even the elderly, even the supposedly most vulnerable, have the viral infection at such high rates without noticing, then the IFR must be laughably small.

0.04 sounds low, but now credible.

But thank god the schools are mostly closed and the theatres can’t reopen and we all have to suffer being treated as lepers in every other walk of life, because imagine the Armageddon we would be facing if we carelessly let something that lethal sweep through the population!

44068 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 8, #140 of 1906 🔗

Uptick for the sarcasm. My favourite weapon too. It’s the lowest form of wit, but amazing how many heads it sails right over.

44185 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, #141 of 1906 🔗

Well, sorry if I offended you. I thought it was blunt enough to smack most people in the face, rather than sailing over their heads.

I think that’s the second time you’ve called me out for sarcasm. I apologise that I offend you so.

44315 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 3, #142 of 1906 🔗

He gave you an uptick. So probably wasn’t offended. Crossed wires ?

44322 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to JohnB, 5, #143 of 1906 🔗

Er… yes. Sorry. Site has been playing up for me and so when I read Nick’s comment I had zero apparent upticks, so I took it as snark.

Sorry Nick.

44329 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 10, #144 of 1906 🔗

So nice that on this site people apologise when there is misunderstanding, and that there is no cancel culture 🙂

44100 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 4, #145 of 1906 🔗

Armageddon. I suggest now would be a fine time for the Ruski’s to invade if they are going to. Aparently they floated a couple of ‘warships’ past our island in the earliest days of lockdown if I recall, front page news. I suspect they thought, nah not today – too easy.

Otherwise, I fail to see much point to all the Russia this and that. It’s as though our ‘leaders’ need us to have monsters under the bed, but only show us one at a time.

44112 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #146 of 1906 🔗

..especially as the British army is to be shrunk by 20%..

44217 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, 1, #147 of 1906 🔗

But what’s 20% of hardly anything.

44218 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Rowan, #148 of 1906 🔗

lol

44021 IanE, 3, #149 of 1906 🔗

Point 18 in your Twitter thread is the one that bothers me most. We may not have got there yet, and maybe murdering the non-woke will stay a step too far, but imprisonment – I wouldn’t bet against that happening!

44027 Adam, replying to Adam, 52, #150 of 1906 🔗

Apparently, Tom Hanks has no respect for me for not wearing a mask. Oh no!!! How am I going to sleep at night? Condescending, virtue-signalling tosser.

44031 ▶▶ annie, replying to Adam, 19, #151 of 1906 🔗

What respect have I for Tom Wanks?

44041 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Adam, 11, #152 of 1906 🔗

Oh dear, that will make you Sleepless in ???????? !

44220 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to IanE, 4, #153 of 1906 🔗

CHAZ

44042 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Adam, 20, #154 of 1906 🔗

But he removed his own tooth with an ice skate!!! On no that was in a film. Actors should zip it, they pretend to be people for a living.

44050 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Adam, 10, #155 of 1906 🔗

They should have left him on that desert island.

44126 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mike Smith, 7, #156 of 1906 🔗

Cruelty to islands!

44406 ▶▶▶ Richard Riewer, replying to Mike Smith, #157 of 1906 🔗

They should have saved him rather than Private Ryan.

44071 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Adam, 3, #158 of 1906 🔗

Is he the UN Ambassador for mask wearing?

44118 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #159 of 1906 🔗

It’s always been his burning ambition.

44219 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Adam, 3, #160 of 1906 🔗

You should defer to Forrest Gump, what’s wrong with you?

44221 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Rowan, #161 of 1906 🔗

lol

44417 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rowan, #162 of 1906 🔗

Was he in Dumb and Dumber ?

44261 ▶▶ Rick, replying to Adam, 7, #163 of 1906 🔗

Apparently, when life is like a box of chocolates some actors end up being the strawberry cream.

44028 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 45, #164 of 1906 🔗

It is all unravelling, in ways that were fairly obvious at the time: a) most deaths simply brought forward by a few months, in the same way as catching any infection when very elderly and frail b) the largest single cause of deaths actually triggered by infections caught in hospitals and care homes c) ventilation (remember how it was all the government’s fault that we didn’t have enough?) positively harmful d) NHS and care homes running a mile from any accountability e) public policy dominated by people with no interest in a functioning economy (as long as they can shop online) f) a public sector on 100% pay and naturally not keen to go back to work.
It really is the revenge of the guardians. All employed by the State and quite happy to trash the economy.

44072 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to WhyNow, 20, #165 of 1906 🔗

And when more people begin to find out their jobs and livelihoods are gone, and they discover people like us, only too happy to tell them why, then the anger will begin. And the recriminations. And the blame…

44074 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nick Rose, 13, #166 of 1906 🔗

Oh I hope so……..

44124 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 10, #167 of 1906 🔗

It will happen.
We will sit and watch them tear each other to pieces, expose one another’s lies, denounce one another’s cruelties, and make one another crawl and eat dirt, and we will laugh and enjoy every moment if it.

44364 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 4, #168 of 1906 🔗

Going to get a good tin of biscuits in for the show.

It looks like our university research system could do with a hearty scorched earth policy. That’s before moving on to the university brainwashing no sorry learning aspect of Toby’s tweets.

44368 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 7, #169 of 1906 🔗

I think it’s time for bed, because the quote that’s in my head is Arnaud Almaric at the massacre of Béziers: “kill them all. God will find his own”.

44418 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 3, #170 of 1906 🔗

I wouldn’t go that far, but from another angle it does ee-awaken my sympathy for the Cathars as a persecuted minority. I now know something of what they went through.

44481 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 2, #171 of 1906 🔗

Hi the other half and I think that a lot of the psyop fear-mongering and social conditioning has been to make everyone easy to control when the ‘poop hits the oscillator’ as James Pilato (Media Monarchy) puts it.

44115 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to WhyNow, 16, #172 of 1906 🔗

Unless they plan to release a new virus in the autumn, I can’t see how the government are going to be able to get away from the fact that the deaths for this year will be statistically normal and that the lockdown with all its effects will have been for nothing – the ONS data is already showing deaths have now dropped under the 5 year average. Most in the vaccine world are saying it is likely to be January before any vaccine programme will be brought in, so how are the government going to string out all the restrictions from now till then??? When no one is dying from the virus any more?

44136 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Carrie, 9, #173 of 1906 🔗

No problem, Carrie. Reports over the last few days of a new swine flu and cases of bubonic plague in China. Given the level of fear already whipped up, it won’t be hard to convince people that these are also a serious threat and we should stay indoors wetting ourselves in fear.

44182 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 15, #174 of 1906 🔗

I don’t know. This is interesting. Nobody (other than those here) seems to have any sense for numbers of deaths in context. 40+ thousand deaths sounds like a big number and it’s been used to set the narrative that Covid is a death sentence. The new narrative is that people are catching the virus. Therefore, naturally, they’re going to die, because it’s a death sentence (and if they don’t die, their granny surely will). Now that nobody is talking about numbers of hospitalisations/ICU admissions/deaths anymore, I’m just not sure how people are going to start to realise they’ve been conned unless there’s a major and heavily publicised media story about it.

44376 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 12, #175 of 1906 🔗

Even the BBC is now quoting the 35,000 possible cancer deaths due to lockdown figure. Surely most people, even zealots, can do the simple math and realise that that’s nearly the number who have supposedly died ‘of’ covid?

And that that’s JUST cancer.

45097 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Farinances, 3, #176 of 1906 🔗

Yep, add the 16,000 or so excess deaths that were not marked down as due to Covid and you have 51,000 deaths due to the lockdown, which is already higher than the official Covid death count.

44223 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, 1, #177 of 1906 🔗

Perhaps not a new virus, but a new vaccine!

44255 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Carrie, 6, #178 of 1906 🔗

If the MSM report seasonal flu-like illness and deaths like they have for C19 then easy for the twats at HM GOV to insist we carry on with this farce to save NHS and unnecessary deaths. If you think about it how could they not. A hamster wheel of madness.

44654 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 3, #179 of 1906 🔗

Easy when most people don’t have that information!

They are also being constantly bombarded with carefully selected words. The word “pandemic” is still routinely used by reporters. Blaming covid rather than the lockdown for the economic repercussions. It’s a constant dripping of misinformation and semantic hyperbole.

Sometime between last Wednesday and Thursday, positive test results were suddenly upgraded from being “cases” to being “infections”.

Officially, an “outbreak” consists of two positive results from the same location. Most people don’t know that and imagine an outbreak to consist of dozens of people dropping dead in the street.

45674 ▶▶▶ Gorgeous George, replying to Carrie, #180 of 1906 🔗

“When no one is dying from the virus any more?“

No-one died “from“ covid. People passed away WITH a cold virus.

Get it right. Or wear your mask!
😘

44032 Cruella, replying to Cruella, 75, #181 of 1906 🔗

I have to wear a face mask at work at all times, or full PPE during procedures. It’s really unpleasant, and so far from normal. It makes communicating difficult, especially with the elderly and those with accents. It makes you short of breath if you have to talk for a while, so you don’t. They also make reading facial expression impossible and simply the pleasure of seeing someone’s face has gone. From March to mid June we were forbidden to wear face masks on corridors or anywhere off the wards. We had to wear them with suspected and covid positive patients when providing personal care only. Then they became mandatory on all parts of the ward, but not outside them. Then when all bar the tiniest number of suspected covid patients were left we had to start wearing them everywhere on site, under government instruction. If I walk from my bike rack to the door of the building without one, with no one around I get shouted at by a security guard. If I choose to go out to sit on the grass for my lunch, I have to wear one and only remove it to eat and put it back on once I’ve stopped chewing. I work amongst scientists, medics, supposedly smart people and yet. I can’t choose to rebel, I’m a government nurse. However I will not wear a mask outside of work, ever. If I can’t go in, then I won’t. I feel so utterly despondent today, the rain and the impotence is getting to me.

44048 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Cruella, 5, #182 of 1906 🔗

Hang on, you’re a nurse called Cruella?

44128 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Mike Smith, 11, #183 of 1906 🔗

Yes. That is odd.

44077 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cruella, 25, #184 of 1906 🔗

Chin up. You’re better than they are, because you are right and know you are. They are still cowering in the dark, they will find their way. Eventually. But you, you are among the pioneers. To doubt yourself is natural. But you are not alone. We are here.

44157 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #185 of 1906 🔗

Thank you. Onwards!

44093 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Cruella, 29, #186 of 1906 🔗

Our daughter works in a hospital and she says wearing masks is bloody awful,last week when it was hot one of her colleagues passed out due to wearing one and my daughter and another member of staff came close to it.She has a bad headache a lot of the time,it makes her eyes,sore she gets a rash from the mask and generally feels very tired.The staff had a meeting with Occupational Health about their concerns but it went no further.There is a big ‘do as I say not as I do’ divide between management levels and the rest of the staff,Senior Sisters and Surgical managers often don’t wear face masks.
She used to really enjoy he job but I can see she has totally lost heart in it,she dreads going to work now.To add to the misery of the masks the NHS Trust has brought in major changes at her hospital under the Coronavirus legislation so as to avoid public and staff scrutiny and consultation,they say the the changes are only temporary but no-one believes that.Those that clap and collect money for the NHS really need to know how little the management care about patients and staff.

44116 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 14, #187 of 1906 🔗

Can they not report their trust to the HSE? The fact that you have staff passing out and your daughter is getting bad heaches, sore eyes and skin rashes is a very bad sign and is a major breach of H&S policy.

44117 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cruella, 8, #188 of 1906 🔗

Can you maybe ‘faint’ from wearing it one day? Or develop ‘asthma’ or some other get-out condition? GAD?

44155 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, 23, #189 of 1906 🔗

I told an estate agent today, after being instructed that the only way I would be allowed to view a property was if I wore a mask and gloves, that I couldn’t wear a mask because of breathing difficulties (which is true). Said, regrettably, I would have to cancel the viewing … I got an e-mail within about a minute, saying it was OK I didn’t have to bother and could go after all! Not much gets between an estate agent and some potential commission it seems!

44286 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to kh1485, 1, #190 of 1906 🔗

fucking idiots i would boycott them.

44421 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to anon, 1, #191 of 1906 🔗

Believe me, I wish I could …

44120 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cruella, 35, #192 of 1906 🔗

Poor you. Just hang on in there, but express your discontent whenever and wherever and to whomever you can. Don’t let them think you agree ir have accepted it. Think like a rebel, even if you are prevented by the totalitarian shits from acting like one.
One day all this idiocy is going to start to crumble. And when it goes, it will go quickly.
Don’t despair, folks. We are all in it together, against THEM. You are not alone.

44153 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to annie, 26, #193 of 1906 🔗

Thank you. I will, and I do protest. I love my job but do loath so much about the NHS. The incompetence, lack of commitment etc. The trouble with the diefication of our health service is that it is now exempt from scrutiny and criticism at a time when it’s inadequacies have been laid bare. The NHS has made it clear that it is unable to continue to function when faced with a pandemic and that a legitimate solution in this situation is to abandon it’s duty of care to the public. Having demonstrated ourselves incapable of planning, or implementing effective strategy despite a lot of evidence that this shit happens fairly regularly we now expect the public to celebrate our 72nd year! How can we be thumping our chests!!??
Thank you for the encouragement, I will think of it when I march past Barry the boorish security guard!

44176 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Cruella, 13, #194 of 1906 🔗

Thank you one very much for your posts. I get the impression from speaking to people I know in the NHS that you are fair from being alone in your views.

The NHS is a mess and its got very little to do with funding. When we get the Non Player Characters saying that its either the NHS or the US system, they couldn’t be more wrong. The UK and US systems are both outliers in the world of healthcare systems. So much so that no other country has copied either. I read the book below a few years ago. It shows that many other countries have interesting and better ways of managing their healthcare. More importantly, they have better health outcomes than we do. Its a real eye opening book and highly recommended.

‘The Welfare of Nations’ by James Bartholomew
https://tinyurl.com/y7mkmjkz

Thank you again Cruella for sharing your frustration. I’m truly sorry that the job which you love is made so difficult by the bureaucracy and the mess.

44251 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #195 of 1906 🔗

The patients truly make up for the frustration, I just wish we could serve them better. I have heard about this book, it looks like a worthwhile read. Thank you.

45832 ▶▶▶▶▶ Michel, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #196 of 1906 🔗

An other “must read” is: Humankind – a hopefull history by Rutger Bregman. A book published in 2019 and a revelation. I think it also shows that the whole Covid-19 pandemic might very well be an example of a nocebo effect…

44277 ▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Cruella, #197 of 1906 🔗

Can you tell me if the NHS has used hydroxychloroquine at all and if it is generally thought by staff that using ventilators is not the right policy and can do more harm than good in a covid patient?
Thanks

44419 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cruella, 1, #198 of 1906 🔗

Remember the German commander in Dad’s Army: YOU are on the list!
And he will be, with all the other Covibullies.

44222 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Cruella, 8, #199 of 1906 🔗

Here’s what I intend to say if necessary: “Wearing a mask gives me panic attacks”. It immediately turns me into a victim, and in today’s world victims must always be believed.

44262 ▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Cruella, 11, #200 of 1906 🔗

I feel for you, Cruella. I’m writing this sat next to my day old daughter, wondering what kind of crazy world I’ve brought her into.

I was muzzled and my hands sanitised as soon as I entered the hospital, much to my disdain. Everybody in the hospital, from the receptionists to the workers in the WH Smith kiosk were muzzled.

I really feel for first time mothers in such places, they can’t even receive a reassuring smile from a midwife or nurse – add that to the fact that their anxiety may be further increased by having to repeatedly ingest one’s own CO2 for the duration of the stay, I can’t say it would be remembered as a happy experience.

44278 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Scotty87, #201 of 1906 🔗

They made you wear a mask while you were giving birth?

44291 ▶▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to matt, #202 of 1906 🔗

My partner gave birth via caesarean section. I had to wear a mask in the theatre but she was allowed to temporarily remove it, a small mercy related to oxygen intake I guess.

44304 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Scotty87, 9, #203 of 1906 🔗

I couldn’t object much to a mask in theatre, but if they’re lapping masks on women and their partners as they go into the maternity wards…

Where’s the humanity of the health system gone? Is this because they’ve recognised that the bloody thing spreads mostly through hospitals?

Honestly, it’s a kind of madness. It’s as if large parts of society have joined up together all at once to pull their civilisation down ‘round their ears.

(Sorry – that last part has very little to do with you, Scotty. Congratulations on your new daughter!)

44657 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Scotty87, 4, #204 of 1906 🔗

Masks are justifiably routine for surgery – but on the wards??
What’s the effect on a brand new baby when it’s constantly surrounded by a load of masked faces?!!!!!!

44269 ▶▶ TJS123, replying to Cruella, 34, #205 of 1906 🔗

Total agreement Cruella. I’m an NHS neurology clinician facing more and more restrictions which stop me providing proper care for my patients. The outpatients department is used for something else so there are no rooms to see patients. Queues are growing and growing, patients suffering and nobody seems to care. Some will have tumours or serious neurological conditions which won’t be picked up and treated. We who question are seen as complainers, inflexible, not open to change…There’s a massive push towards doing all appointments by phone, thus relying on the verbal skills of the patients alone. The elderly, brain injured, neurologically impaired and learning disabled don’t have these verbal skills. Assessing patients medically means examining them, observing them, reading body language etc and I’m worried for my job if I diagnose wrongly because I’m forced to work with both hands tied behind my back. I wanted to continue my career a few years longer until retirement but I don’t think I can face the blind disregard for safe practice and I really don’t know what the underlying agenda is. How can you check for facial droop if the patient has a mask on?

44287 ▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to TJS123, 18, #206 of 1906 🔗

Thank you for your insight here. That is a terrifying situation that you describe. It’s such a tragic irony; your patients are being “protected” from a virus that may only mildly affect them, but the hysterical response to said virus by the government and NHS officials is depriving them of the kind of care that could save their lives.

Heads must roll for this most appalling incompetence…

44290 ▶▶▶ SRagdoll, replying to TJS123, 15, #207 of 1906 🔗

This sounds like insanity. I don’t envy you. Is this the NHS pen pushers driving this nonsense?! I am astounded more medical professionals aren’t speaking up.

44487 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to SRagdoll, 4, #208 of 1906 🔗

They risk their careers if they speak up. Remember the letter Toby published from a doctor in Leicester a couple of days ago?

44442 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to TJS123, 13, #209 of 1906 🔗

Yes, it contradicts everything we had previously established as best practice, namely to use evidence to weigh risk and provide the patient with their best option. I have no idea how you can do your work like that, it must be soul destroying. Have you written to the chief executive? Raised your concerns for patient safety and documented when you feel your ability is compromised by distancing rules? I have found the failure of my most senior medical colleagues to question, or challenge most distressing. I had trusted them implicitly before to try their best for each individual and now find that they have fallen in my estimation. I think they, like so many wealthy people are protected from the reality of the diasater meted out on people and will only realise the consequences when they have to eyeball the multitude of individuals they have let down in the months to come. I think they probably know this really which is why they refuse to dig down and question the narrative, as it provides them with the excuse they need and removes individual responsibility.

44495 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cruella, 6, #210 of 1906 🔗

Thank you to you and TJS123 for posting about what you’re going through at work. I hope it is some comfort to you to know that people are reading this and realising, if they did not already, just how bad things are in the NHS and how distressing it must be to be prevented from doing your jobs properly.

I agree with you, Cruella. Write to your CEs and other bosses and document everything. Keep notes (if you have the time and energy!) Make it clear that they will never be able to hide behind ‘we didn’t know’. Who knows, it might give some of them pause.

p.s. Leave those cute little dalmations alone!

44033 Mike Smith, 6, #211 of 1906 🔗

The Tablet article is excellent. Disturbing, but excellent. Bit pretentious in places, but don’t let that put you off (“Marrying the technical nomenclature of rational proof to the soaring eschatology of the sermon, it releases adherents from the normal bounds of reason”. In plainer English: “They like to sound rational but if that doesn’t work they switch instantly to Maoist screaming”.)

This is the most worrying bit: “The organs of reason and expertise have one by one, pledged their cultish loyalty to this new faith.” Once the institutions are not longer rational, what happens then? And here’s the depressing answer: “In all revolutions, the new thing struggling to be born makes use of the old system in order to overthrow it.” Key word being “revolution”. So not so much 1984 as 1789. Great.

44034 Matt Mounsey, replying to Matt Mounsey, 8, #212 of 1906 🔗

The major genetic risk factor for severe COVID-19 is inherited from Neanderthals

“Interesting preprint suggesting a genetic explanation for why BME people are more susceptible to coronavirus.”

Hang on. Black people don’t have Neanderthal DNA. The study says the genes are mainly expressed in South Asians (~30%) and Europeans (~8%).

So it says the opposite of the quote.

44147 ▶▶ matt, replying to Matt Mounsey, 1, #213 of 1906 🔗

I’d always understood that Neanderthal DBA was most common in Europeans and Cro Magnon DNA I. East Asians. May be wrong.

44258 ▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to matt, #214 of 1906 🔗

You’re both right, it’s not about Africans. The headline is misleading.The concluding para of the paper reads:

‘Among the individuals in the 1000 Genome Project, the Neanderthal-derived risk haplotypes is almost completely absent in Africa, consistent with that gene flow from Neandertals into African populations was limited and probably indirect (Chen et al. 2020). The Neandertal haplotype occurs in South Asia at a frequency of 30%, in Europa at 8%, among admixed Americans at 4% and at lower frequencies in East Asia. The highest frequency occurs in Bangladesh, where more than half the population (63%) carries at least one copy of the Neandertal risk variant and 13% is homozygous for the variant. The Neandertal variant may thus be a substantial contributor to COVID-19 risk in certain populations. Currently it is not known what feature in the Neandertal-derived region confers risk for severe COVID-19 and if the effects of any such feature is specific to current coronaviruses or indeed to any other pathogens. Once this is elucidated, it may be possible to speculate about the susceptibility of Neandertals to relevant pathogens. However, in the current pandemic, it is clear that gene flow from Neandertals has tragic consequences.’

It is an interesting riff on the observation that ‘A recent genetic association study (Ellinghaus et al. 2020) identified a gene cluster on chromosome 3 as a risk locus for respiratory failure in SARS-CoV-2. Recent data comprising 3,199 hospitalized
COVID-19 patients and controls reproduce this and find that it is the major genetic risk factor for severe SARS-CoV-2 infection and hospitalization (COVID-19 Host Genetics Initiative).’ The ‘Neanderthal’ link is not perhaps of any immediate practical use, but the Chromosome 3 risk factor is. The map in the paper shows that this genetic variant occurs with highest frequency in Bangladesh, but apparently also throughout India – and spottily in Europe.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.03.186296v1.full.pdf

44320 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Sylvie, 1, #215 of 1906 🔗

The abstract of the Ellinghaus paper says the work showed an association with chromosome 3, where ‘SLC6A20 encodes a known interaction partner with angiotensin converting enzyme 2 (ACE2)’, which has to do with the Cov 2 spikes. (The other association signal at chromosome 9 was located at the ABO blood group locus and a blood-group-specific analysis showed higher risk for A-positive individuals and a protective effect for blood group O. The latter seems not to have turned out to be significant though, don’t at present know why.)
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2020283

44349 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to Sylvie, #216 of 1906 🔗

There’s a more detailed map, on which this one seems based, at Page 38 here:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2020283/suppl_file/nejmoa2020283_appendix_1.pdf

44036 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 15, #217 of 1906 🔗

81 % of care home cases aymptomatic might be a surprise to the public who watch corona porn on sky and the BBC. I can add that in the three local EMI ( geriatric dementia ) homes which had covid19 outbreaks in April the fatatlity rate was less than 30 % of those with positive tests . Everyone of these residents was over 80 and all had multiple significant co morbitidies .

Today whilst checking on lab results in the office I listened to the BBC radio news . The headline was of course the Brazilian President having been diagnosed with covid19. The newsreader was so thrilled mentioning that Brazil had the second worst number of covid deaths ( forgetting it is a country of over 200 million ) . Can you imagine the excitement of BBC staff if Presdent Trump had Covid19 ?

44121 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #218 of 1906 🔗

Out of interest, in those care homes, were residents with breathing problems offered oxygen? (I don’t mean ventilators, I mean oxygen via cylinder and mask/nose ‘prongs’) One criticism in Sweden has been that care homes did not offer symptomatic patients any oxygen or anything that could be described as ‘treatment’ – they put people onto palliative care (morphine), effectively killing them… This has been reported by relatives of such residents..

44175 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Carrie, 2, #219 of 1906 🔗

They were all very elderly and had advanced dementia. . None displayed respiratory distress , and anyway if they had a ordinary bacterial chest infection with respiratory compromise you just would never consider giving oxygen for obvious reasons. It would be cruel.

44338 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #220 of 1906 🔗

I understand about the residents with dementia. The people referred to in Sweden were not dementia patients and there are some cases where the relative found out that palliative care had been started, objected, the palliative care was then stopped and the person made a full recovery!

44037 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #221 of 1906 🔗

Can I ask you all to keep an eye on this please:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zoki1xUKuY15JmPujZXd-mMjXn0K_2GM/view

It should be a pdf from PHE and is a damning piece of evidence against the tests but seems to suddenly be in perpetual updating mode – or have I just picked a bad time to look for it?

44038 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #222 of 1906 🔗

I just managed to look at it – and I downloaded it too just in case it disappeared 🙂 Haven’t read it yet though.

44044 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edna, 1, #223 of 1906 🔗

Thanks Edna. I can look at it if I download it.

44049 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Cheezilla, #224 of 1906 🔗

Downloaded here no problem. Not sure how relevant it is.

44063 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to davews, 1, #225 of 1906 🔗

It shows the covid tests are a pile of shite.

44123 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #226 of 1906 🔗

Maybe Toby can add it to his next update?

44138 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #227 of 1906 🔗

I’m fairly sure it was posted by someone on LS, with some comments, thus:

Updating PHE COVID-19 Diagnostic Test Protocols 11 April 2020
‘…….some discordant results have been identified.’
‘Summary of the initial results:
1. There is considerable diversity of molecular platforms, reagents, kits and assay performance conditions in PHE and NHS laboratories providing SARS-CoV-2 molecular detection
2. There is evidence of quality assurance difficulties for key reagents due to global supply chain issues
3. Shortages of swabs and transport medium have led to local variations in sampling practice which may impact on assay performance through the introduction of inhibitors into biochemical reactions
4. There is no evidence of viral genetic drift as a basis for altered sensitivity of assay
5. Enzyme performance from external suppliers has degraded compared with original validation performance.’

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zoki1xUKuY15JmPujZXd-mMjXn0K_2GM/view

In short, covid 19 diagnosis as late as 11 April was all over the shop, hopelessly unreliable.

 So the lockdown was based on an incompetent piece of modelling, data from China which changed its case definition 7 times between February and March, data from Italy which downgraded its covid 19 mortality figures to 12% of the original figure, and diagnostic tests which were hopelessly flawed.

44039 Bella, replying to Bella, 44, #228 of 1906 🔗

‘Why aren’t more people going to the pub?’ Well I got turned away from one of mine for refusing to have my temperature taken and since they’ve all been doing it around here that’s that for the time being. And now, shock horror, three pubs (I think it’s three) out of thousands have closed again after opening Saturday because someone in each tested positive, allegedly. The BBC (yeuch) even said that one of the pubs had even seen the results of infected person, which sounds suspicious already – why would you need to see the results? Loads of people are going to test positive. So here we go again, one infection, everything closed down. These are not people showing symptoms. They are not cases. Up until now I’ve handled lockdown mostly in good humour, but I’ve cracked. Now I despair. Doubly so because the mask narrative is being pushed and pushed relentlessly. It’s going to be mandatory. So how is that going to work in pubs and restaurants? And how’s it going to affect people like me who can’t wear the damn things? Am I now under house arrest forever?

44047 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella, 5, #229 of 1906 🔗

Yes, it is difficult to keep hopeful.

Rather, the situation reminds me of one of those horror films in which a group of disparate people are caught in a terrible situation and, as each sub-group tries to get away, they fail, returning with knives in their back or with terribly mutilated faces and die as others watch on horrified. Never mind, you think, the main couple keep going and just manage to survive, until, just as they seem to have got away, they trip and fall into a trap filled with upwardly pointing knives

44062 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 4, #230 of 1906 🔗

Thanks a lot Ian! That’s just the sort of cheering up we need right now.

44081 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to IanE, #231 of 1906 🔗

Channel 70 on Freeview one of your favourites by any chance?

44540 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #232 of 1906 🔗

Nope – just a touch of reality to add to the gloom caused by our appalling government!

44146 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 2, #234 of 1906 🔗

What’s amazing is that the business owners are saying he did the right thing to report himself. Clearly, they deserve each other!

44060 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 41, #235 of 1906 🔗

I know what you mean. I am genuinely amazed that there isn’t some sort of uprising about this. I really did think in the early days of lockdown, that the British public would express their outrage at the removal of their liberty (but it seems no-one – other than LS – seems to give a damn about it). To say I have been disappointed by the collective supine acquiescence would be an understatement. When I expressed this to a friend, she looked on as though I was mad “but we’ve got to protect people … don’t get worked up about it, because you will make yourself ill” I gave up at that point because I knew there was no point in me trying to convince her that this is all wrong.

And to add to my anger are all these bloody luvvies and royals banging on about cretinous Tik Tok videos, or whatever the hell they are and how they are spending lockdown crafting flowery face-masks and knitting organic yogurt. Like I’ve said before, they’re treating this seemingly never-ending nightmare like it’s all a bit of a jolly jamboree. And if one more person asks me if I have enjoyed my “holiday” like I had some bloody choice in the matter, I think I will scream.

44078 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 4, #236 of 1906 🔗

Dont get worked up, make yourself ill, isnt thst a scene from Brave New Fahrenheit 451 World?

FWIW I fancy a small spark might bring the silent into the light. I sense many unhappy but without a connecting purpose of action.

44080 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kh1485, 9, #237 of 1906 🔗

I think it’s building up though. They’re going to make that little push too far.

44119 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to kh1485, 3, #238 of 1906 🔗

I want to punch heads for you.

44149 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cruella, 5, #239 of 1906 🔗

My car mechanic was just telling me he isn’t taking his 5-kid family to the coast for their customary summer holiday. As he pointed out, nothing’s really open.

44373 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to kh1485, 14, #240 of 1906 🔗

The other day I had a shouting match with my mum, who concluded our argument with “BUT YOU CAN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, SO WHY ARE YOU SO ANGRY!”

I replied, “*BECAUSE* I CAN’T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!!!!”

This is the difference between us and them, people. I honestly think most of the non-zealoty, Comfortably Unbothereds actually know this is all bullshit, they know. It just doesn’t impact them personally, so they don’t get riled up about it. And they don’t understand those of us who do, even if we’re not impacted particularly negatively ourselves. In short, they lack the bigger picture cognitive function and quite frankly the empathy they often accuse us of not having. They don’t CARE.

And that’s what’s so depressing. People are dying – NOT OF COVID – and they Just. Don’t. Care.

44426 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Farinances, 11, #241 of 1906 🔗

Yes, that’s exactly it.

The thing is I shouldn’t really care, I now have no family, just me, so I could just go with the flow. But I really care about that precious thing called liberty. People such as my – presumably now ex – friend have just willingly relinquished it, in fact, they handed it to the government gift-wrapped on a plate. Perhaps, as others have said, once the magic money supply dries up, reality will dawn. But how bloody sad that it will take potential financial hardship before people come to their senses.

NB: She started to drone on about how dead the town was. And I said, it came as no surprise to me. If you insist on putting up perspex screens (as she has) and arrows and force people to put chemical shite on their hands, you can’t be surprised that they don’t want to come into your shop. And the f*&kwittery appears to have no end: yesterday I noticed they are now widening the pavements and narrowing the roads to “enable social effing distancing” ….

44521 ▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Farinances, 4, #242 of 1906 🔗

Perfect summing up of my own thoughts. I give more of a shit for the things that actually have little effect on my life but are still wrong.

44525 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Farinances, 9, #243 of 1906 🔗

I know I’m becoming a bore on the subject. I met up with my brother the other day and a few minutes in he said “I agree with a lot of what you say, but I don’t want to talk about it.”

Fair enough, I suppose. The destructive stupidity of the situation is making me obsessive and angry. The fact that I know nobody else who is obsessively angry about the situation even though it’s completely obvious that they should be makes me even angrier. The fact that I can’t do anything about it is just the icing on the cake.

44666 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 7, #244 of 1906 🔗

Frustration is a dangerous thing!

I frequently get the “But what can you do about it? You might as well relax and accept it.”

Well, I find it hard to relax about it when I know that when the smug sheeple finally wake up to what’s been going on under their noses while they relaxed and accepted it, we’ll all be deep in the shit and it will be too late.

What’s that quote about evil thriving while good men do nothing?

We might be frustrated but at least we’re doing what we can. We’re keeping ourselves informed, setting an example of old normality where possible and trying to inform others as opportunity permits.

44076 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bella, 8, #245 of 1906 🔗

The three pubs closing is a major non-story if you read the details. One pub closed because a customer later tested positive, the second because a delivery driver tested positive, and the third because a friend’s wife (or something equally far-fetched) tested positive. But the way it’s been reported suggests that they’ve all suffered enormous outbreaks as a result of being open for one day. People seem to have forgotten the relatively long incubation period of the virus – just this morning I heard two ladies discussing how people had got infected from going to the pub at the weekend…

44158 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #246 of 1906 🔗

I’d read it as one asymptomatic positive test result could temporarily disable a business.

44160 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #247 of 1906 🔗

I found the article by that swiss virologist very eye opening – the very idea of ill but not ill is new and not likely.

People are either symptomatic, pre-symptomatic or mild (and failed to notice some mild symptoms) but the idea of anyone being truly asymptomatic is apparently nonsense. More likely those who are truly symptom-less and dont get symptoms, were quite simply immune and fought off the virus attempt to infect – and the positive is false.

44374 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark II, 4, #248 of 1906 🔗

This. I definitely think there is a significant minority, if not a slight majority, of people who are exposed to this ‘beast’ and simply bat it off without even experiencing any kind of immune response – because they don’t have to. Again completely alike the good old common cold – with any one strain certain people will get really ill and certain people won’t even get it at all even when in close contact with ill people. Everybody’s different.

Another thing The Science seems to have overlooked…..

45496 ▶▶▶ John Ballard, replying to A. Contrarian, #249 of 1906 🔗

Where’s the spike from the half a million people sat on Bournemouth beach the other week? Agh…no spike, surprise surprise !!!

44127 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, 7, #250 of 1906 🔗

Anyone testing positive would not have been infected at the pub – they’ve only been open a few days..

44142 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 4, #251 of 1906 🔗

It could easily be a fake fire alarm-type hoax, in which case, I hope the perpetrator brags about it and gets suitably dealt with.

What gets me is that one of the pubs said they’d open after doing a deep clean. That’s going to run up extra costs. Surely, they just have to close for 72 hours? Works for shoes!

44192 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #252 of 1906 🔗

Did anyone seriously think this WASN’T going to happen? As the virus continues to diminish in the Real World (see CEBM Oxford’s daily updates and some of the graphs on Hector Drummond’s blog) so The Agenda demands that the paranoia be whipped up.

44206 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to chris c, 14, #253 of 1906 🔗

Back to critical thinking.

People who were in the pub on Saturday have now tested positive for Coronavirus (on Monday latest, since it was reported on Tuesday’s breakfast news.

I won’t even give it the credit to say it doesn’t pass a sniff test. It’s crawling with maggots – you don’t need to bring it close enough to sniff to realise it’s off.

Either there is no journalist or editor working for the BBC or ITV who has the intellectual capacity of a 5 year old, or they’re doing it on purpose.

44300 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to matt, 2, #254 of 1906 🔗

Of course they are doing it on purpose

Many (esp bbc) ‘journalists’ are ‘intel’

44311 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to anon, 3, #255 of 1906 🔗

I don’t buy that but I do think they’re enjoying themselves too much an they’re incapable of doing their job properly.

44470 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to matt, #256 of 1906 🔗

Do some more digging

Op mocking bird for starters.

44422 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 2, #257 of 1906 🔗

Both!

44331 ▶▶▶▶ John Mirra, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #258 of 1906 🔗

Any deep clean would only take a day or so. Unless they are steaming all the carpets and surfaces, which is a colossal overreaction. Even then, that still no longer than 2 days. Take that from someone who used to work as a cleaner in a hospital (with a good hygiene record) many years ago.

44040 T. Prince, 48, #259 of 1906 🔗

Emotionally blackmailing people to force them to wear muzzles needs to be resisted at all costs…..

44043 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 11, #260 of 1906 🔗

Oh dear, justification for forcing people to wear masks has just popped up on my phone, from Yahoo Mail:

“There’s emerging evidence of airborne virus transmission says WHO”…

Here we go….

44084 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to T. Prince, 2, #261 of 1906 🔗

lol. Here we go.

44302 ▶▶ anon, replying to T. Prince, 1, #262 of 1906 🔗

Turn yer phone off pal!

44396 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to anon, 2, #263 of 1906 🔗

I know! I don’t even know why I’ve started getting updates from Yahoo, it’s that constant drip of project fear….

44051 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 36, #264 of 1906 🔗

I can see the advent of compulsory masking coming ever closer, and I don’t know what to do about it. I know what I want to do, and that is to resist it – with violence if necessary. But sadly when you get to my age, your body just does not recover from the inevitable police brutality anywhere near as well as it would have done 50 years ago. I also note that ‘dying a martyr to the cause’ does not feature anywhere on my bucket list. Not that it would end up that way anyway, they would just find a tame police doctor that will claim that broken teeth and bones, bruised skin and a ruptured spleen are all classic symptoms of coronavirus and instead of being a martyr I will end up another statistic to add to the ‘evidence’. It is sad, but I feel I will be of little use come the revolution.

44069 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Old Bill, 9, #265 of 1906 🔗

Making tea in the back room is as vital as everything else. Without tea there is nothing to fight for. Metaphorically speaking.

I think you might be surprised how much inspiration you give with thoughts and experirnce.

44555 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Basics, 5, #266 of 1906 🔗

Thank you for your kind words, and indeed thank you to all who responded to my post.

Making tea? Hmm. I am sure this revelation will get me ‘cancelled’ but I have to admit that I don’t drink tea!! I suppose that doesn’t preclude me from making it though, ‘each according to his abilities’.

Off topic I warn you, but one thing I have noticed about getting older is that whilst the body slowly deteriorates, the mind refuses to believe that it has done so and thinks you can still do what you used to do when you were 20. This results in some embarrassing, if not occasionally dangerous situations. I have decided that the only way to cope with this is to train your brain to accept the body’s shortcomings, so later on today I am going to replace that old and tattered poster of Che Guevara from my bedroom wall and replace it with one of Victor Meldrew.

That will be a start anyway.

44669 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Old Bill, #267 of 1906 🔗

Hahaha – but I don’t believe it!

44085 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Old Bill, 8, #268 of 1906 🔗

Just pretend not to be fully with it. That’s what the mainstream thinks of us anyway.

44670 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #269 of 1906 🔗

Yes. Definitely comes in handy sometimes.

44131 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to arfurmo, 5, #271 of 1906 🔗

Not seen Matt Hancock wearing a mask – why should we wear one when he does not?

44161 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, 1, #272 of 1906 🔗

At least they’re enabling comments, so the public has chance to express its disgust at the idea.
The weaselly Grad allowed no comments.

44372 ▶▶▶ John Mirra, replying to arfurmo, 4, #273 of 1906 🔗

Wow the sheer amount of comments saying no to a “new normal” and mandatory masks is actually inspiring. It’s renewed some of my hope in the British public.

44129 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Old Bill, 5, #274 of 1906 🔗

If made to I will write on my mask “THIS IS FASCHISM IN OPERATION:

44132 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nic, 5, #275 of 1906 🔗

I’d suggest ‘666’

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

44228 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Old Bill, 5, #276 of 1906 🔗

Here’s what I intend to say if necessary: “Wearing a mask gives me panic attacks”. It immediately turns me into a victim, and in today’s world victims must always be believed.

44275 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Old Bill, 3, #277 of 1906 🔗

For now at least, it is actually quite easy to disobey some of the mask wearing diktats. On public transport, the regional transport authorities have put print at home exemption badges on their sites. I know TFL have one along with Network West Midlands. No questions asked. The NWM one states clearly it is to be considered proof of exemption. You could probably get away with waving these around if businesses try to enforce masks.

Here is an example:
https://www.networkwestmidlands.com/media/3407/wmn_facemask_exemption_printathome_v2.pdf

44400 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Old Bill, 2, #278 of 1906 🔗

I’m in my 30’s still and completely feel where you are coming from. My 4-year-old dislocates my joints by giving enthusiastic high 5’s… imagine what an overzealous police officer arresting me would do! It’s incredibly demoralising when the will is strong but your body fails you.

44052 tpkatsa, 3, #279 of 1906 🔗

I am old enough to remember when those opposed to seat belts were ridiculed for using the “slippery slope” argument.

44053 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 12, #280 of 1906 🔗

I can’t help thinking about this asymptomatic thing. We all know the test is unreliable at best. Has anyone considered that all these people testing positive, but with no symptoms, might not actually have the thing after all? How can the same virus be so deadly that we need to lock down for months on end (and according to some reports yesterday, even mild cases are left with long term issues), but yet present in so many people asymptomatically that we all need to wear masks and social distance forever more? Could the asymptomatic “cases” actually not be infected at all?!

44054 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #281 of 1906 🔗

Either that, or else they’re the ones with natural immunity. That 80% number cropping up again.

44058 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #282 of 1906 🔗

I wondered about that, but surely you wouldn’t test positive if you had natural immunity?

44064 ▶▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #283 of 1906 🔗

Maybe your T-cells kill a few infected cells without producing antibodies, but some viral RNA debris is detected by the test? In any case, no one really knows how many false positives or negatives the tests have, because there is no gold standard to calibrate them against.

44091 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to jrsm, 1, #284 of 1906 🔗

Yes, I think it’s the virus DNA debris the test picks up on.

44166 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #285 of 1906 🔗

Not THE virus debris but any old virus debris!

44089 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #286 of 1906 🔗

You’d still catch it, just that your body would fight it and kill it before it could cause illness.

44168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #287 of 1906 🔗

Funny how Vallance never seems to get his head round that one – and it’s way beyond anything Wankock could ever comprehend.

44201 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #288 of 1906 🔗

Well none of them seem to have ever heard of an immune system let alone how it works, except of course for The Vaccine

44254 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nick Rose, #289 of 1906 🔗

So obviously you wouldn’t be able to pass it on if it’s not “live” virus… But how long does the viral debris hang around in your throat and nose? Must be a while if they’re picking up so many of these asymptomatic cases.

44133 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #290 of 1906 🔗

There are a fair few anecdotal reports on social media of people sending off unused tests, as if they have been used, which then come back positive for the virus…and a while back there were reports of the virus being in the test kits..

44257 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, 1, #291 of 1906 🔗

I just don’t understand why this isn’t being investigated further.

44341 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 5, #292 of 1906 🔗

Is this the same kind of testing the President of Tanzania has a goat and Pawpaw tested blindly, both positive..

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-tanzania-testing-kits-questioned-after-goat-and-papaya-test-positive-11982864

44224 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #293 of 1906 🔗

I said that weeks ago. Call it the Null Hypothesis if you will. Skerlock Holmes says it better.

The only thing telling you that you may be “sick” is the test. But if you assume the test is correct then you have to make all these extra assumptions to make the story fit.

44225 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to mhcp, 6, #294 of 1906 🔗

Occam has lost his razor

44380 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, #295 of 1906 🔗

😀

44232 ▶▶ matt, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #296 of 1906 🔗

I keep swiping at this point, but just to make it in full:

We don’t test people for viruses just in case they have them. We never have. Sometimes – but only sometimes – we test people to confirm a diagnosis of a viral infection to make sure they’re being treated for the right thing, but we don’t assay the population if they’re not sick.

Of course there are more people in the population who have come into contact with the virus than we previously knew. This says next to nothing about the progress of the virus through the population.

The fact that the test we’re using is unreliable doesn’t make this any better, but it also doesn’t change the fundamental truth that – for example – we currently have not the faintest idea how many of us have influenza and nor do we care. If you’re sick, it might be useful to work out what virus is causing it (but it probably won’t be, because if it’s a virus, there’s not much we can do about it). If you’re not sick, you’re not sick.

44233 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 12, #297 of 1906 🔗

To add: am I the only one who feels nostalgic for the days when the doctor would say “it’s a virus. Go to bed, take paracetamol and call me if you’re not better in a week”?

44358 ▶▶▶▶ Sylvie, replying to matt, 2, #298 of 1906 🔗

Ha ha, that’s pretty much the advice right now from the NHS – along with ‘take a teaspoonful of honey for the cough’. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-and-treatment/how-to-treat-symptoms-at-home/

44263 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, 5, #299 of 1906 🔗

It’s just all completely nuts! Has anyone tried testing people with no symptoms for influenza? I wonder how many would turn out to be positive? Though I’ve got no idea how accurate the flu test is either of course.

44061 goldhoarder, 4, #300 of 1906 🔗

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
The drastic decline in deaths has the increased mortality rate to just 2 percent above average in the USA. This would seem to indicate that people who were going to die this year died earlier. Crazy times.

44065 A. Contrarian, 4, #301 of 1906 🔗

So National Geographic thinks the IFR is 5-10%? Excuse my maths if not. The mind boggles! Even WHO in the early days estimated 3-4% didn’t they?

44066 Dave Tee, replying to Dave Tee, 19, #302 of 1906 🔗

BBC having a wet dream today over Bolsonaro. The Brazilian leader is an evangelical Christian in a cesspit of a country mired in sexual filth and left-wing politics. He’s a national populist, a climate-change denier, and a lockdown sceptic. And now he’s got the disease and he’s wearing a mask like a humiliated sheeple.

If I ever give the sons of bitches at the biased broadcasting corporation another dime may God have mercy on me.

44114 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dave Tee, 12, #303 of 1906 🔗

I am not sure why Bolsonaro testing positive should reflect badly on him – other than of course in the eyes of the BBC everything he does reflects badly on him.

Djokovic was villified after testing positive, even though he broke no laws or guidelines in the country he was in, but Frances Tiafoe’s positive test was taken solely as a sign that great care needs to be taken when organising tennis tournaments.

I don’t recall any BBC approprobation for the PM, Raab, Hancock, Whitty, Vallance, Ferguson and possibly others all got the virus, almost certainly because they didn’t follow their own advice.

Bolsonaro’s view, I imagine, is not that the virus doesn’t exist but that it’s not worth shutting the country down for, so why a positive test should somehow discredit him I don’t know.

It’s not what you do, it’s who you are, whose side you’re on and what you represent.

44134 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #304 of 1906 🔗

Just hope he is not wearing a mask because his doctors have told him to – it is hardly likely to help his recovery!

44174 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 10, #305 of 1906 🔗

Tragic how people didn’t seem to notice (or remember) that Wankock, Ferguson, Cummings and several other public figures got it and, apart from Bloated Boris, no one came anywhere near to death’s door with it – in fact Wankock actually ran up the steps to Parliament when he returned after a mere week off.

44246 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, 9, #306 of 1906 🔗

If the “right” person tests positive (e.g. BoJo), it’s because the virus doesn’t discriminate and therefore we should all be terrified. If the “wrong” person tests positive (e.g. Djokovic, Bolsonaro) it’s all their fault and must be because they broke the rules…

44252 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #307 of 1906 🔗

‘Virus as moral arbiter’ is an excellent thought.

I think I’m going to end up writing a dissertation on this one day. Unfortunately, I don’t think any university will touch my opinions with a barge pole.

44238 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Dave Tee, 6, #308 of 1906 🔗

Wearing a mask when you are actually confirmed to have the virus doesn’t seem that unreasonable to me. If I remember Bolsonaro’s opinion on Covid correctly, it was that a) Everyone is going to get it eventually and b) It isn’t that big a deal if you do get it. Him catching it actually supports the first part of his argument. If he recovers without too many problems that just backs up his position.

44337 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Chicot, 6, #309 of 1906 🔗

If you have the virus you are supposed to self quarantine, not wander about with or without a mask. Now whether a positive test actually means anything at all is entirely a different matter.

44067 Philip P, replying to Philip P, 18, #310 of 1906 🔗

Can I bring to people’s attention the ‘COVID-19 Extra-Parliamentary Inquiry Committee’ now beginning work in Germany. Set up to investigate their government’s mishanding of the Covid-19 outbreak, it is formed by medical professionals, epidemiologists including Emeritus Prof. Sucharit Bhakdi, and legal and business experts. The English translation of their initial press conference is here:
https://acu2020.org/international/

It would be good to think a similar venture could take place in this country .

44090 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Philip P, 8, #311 of 1906 🔗

Citizens holding the Government to account. It could catch on!

44346 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DJ Dod, #312 of 1906 🔗

They won’t let it happen, unless they can persuade Sir John Chilcot to out of retirement once again.

44070 Richard Pinch, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #313 of 1906 🔗

Predicting the Trajectory of Any COVID-19 Epidemic From the Best Straight Line ‘ – Interesting paper from Professor Michael Levitt, among others, confirming that the rise and fall of infections and deaths follows the same pattern wherever the virus breaks out

Only half right. The paper shows that the decline phase (“fall”) in many cases is a good fit to a doubly exponential decay. It says nothing, and can say nothing, about the “rise” phase, since many different curves have the same doubly exponential decay. Levitt states that “ We believe that the analysis in our study shows conclusively that COVID-19 epidemics grow according to the Gompertz Function” bit this is not correct, and is not supported by his own analysis (which contains mathematical errors).

Levitt also quite properly mentions cases such as Iran which is showing a second rise in deaths, and concludes that this is a “second outbreak”: that is, does not fit his model.

44171 ▶▶ matt, replying to Richard Pinch, 1, #314 of 1906 🔗

Does the first outbreak fit his model? I ask because from what I’ve seen, Iran seems to have had a “stalled” first outbreak – it didn’t go far enough to provide any kind of generalised immunity, though further than NZ (for whatever reason and I don’t claim to know why).

Iran has always looked like an odd outlier across the statistics. It’s also fairly opaque, so hard to know hat might actually be happening.

44178 ▶▶▶ Richard Pinch, replying to matt, #315 of 1906 🔗

I agree that the Iranian statistics may not be reliable. But based on what we have, its hard to say that there ever was an asymptotic or steady state.

44073 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #316 of 1906 🔗

The David Starkey thing is a complete cock-up. I don’t think he uttered an “offensive word”. It would only be offensive if used in a certain way, and he didn’t use it that way. He quoted an imaginary genocidal racist and assumed that his audience would understand what he meant without needing to labour the point. I feel very sorry for him. However, it must be apparent to everyone that speaking off-the-cuff in public is now a lottery; a minefield. I don’t know why anyone with anything to lose should ever do an ‘interview’.

All we can do now is hope to speak in private to people we trust (making sure Alexa isn’t listening), and when in public put on a PC front. Presumably something like it must have been in East Germany.

44087 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #317 of 1906 🔗

Hence why I’ve never been tempted by that Alexa thing – its sinister and Big Brother-esque.

44159 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #318 of 1906 🔗

It is very similar. People learn quickly only to say what is expected. What they think is another matter entirely.

44677 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to WhyNow, #319 of 1906 🔗

Language is the art of disguising thought.

44162 ▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #320 of 1906 🔗

I agree with you. The more so because he is a historian and was doing the historian’s job, which is interpreting and presenting facts to challenge a narrative.the most troubling thing about the affair is that it now seems to be the case that there is only one way in which we are allowed to interpret history.

44379 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #321 of 1906 🔗

Starkey is a legend who speaks sense. So it was only a matter of time.

44082 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #322 of 1906 🔗

Posted this in the 5 July thread, posting it here again.

You can get face mask exemption badges here and please also consider making a donation. They’re based in Edinburgh so should be easy for our fellow Scottish sceptics:

https://www.euansguide.com/news/face-mask-exempt-badges/

44099 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Bart Simpson, #323 of 1906 🔗

I think it could have been better worded -I don’t quite see how a minority of refuseniks can spoilt it.

44180 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, #324 of 1906 🔗

The charity is fundamentally pro-mask.

I wonder how long this will be true:
At the time of writing there is currently no legal requirement to prove you don’t need to wear a face covering.

44167 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #325 of 1906 🔗

Just bought 2 for me and her on the basis that we are ‘scepticysis positive!

44092 Marcus, replying to Marcus, 7, #326 of 1906 🔗

On the topic of the cultural revolution (part II), Brendan O’Neill has another great article out on Spiked today. He’s been really nailing this stuff and makes every sentence count – anyone who has the misfortune to spend their days surrounded by the increasingly delusional Wokesters might find it comforting. I particularly like the last sentence as well, Wokeness is the mask elitism wears .

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/07/07/what-they-mean-when-they-talk-about-white-people/

44104 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Marcus, 10, #327 of 1906 🔗

It is indeed very insightful. I still think it’s a dangerous game to play, on the part of the “elite”. If they are not careful they will find themselves in a world not very much to their liking. They think they are clever, but they may be unleashing forces they cannot contain.

44122 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 7, #328 of 1906 🔗

They may be unleashing something they aren’t expecting. Unintended consequences and all that.

44150 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #329 of 1906 🔗

I have to agree. We tend to think that those in favor of LD are are woke bed wetters but in reality the majority were frightened to death by a MSM that did a fantastic job in helping them lose all reason. I remember thinking at the time when LD was introduced that maybe it was really serious stuff, until of course I found Hector Drummond and I turned the BBC off! To see how a lot of people now just want their normal lives back fills me with hope that they are hopefully getting wiser to the nonsense and maybe, just maybe, we’ll get that backlash that the country deserves

44229 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to T. Prince, 5, #330 of 1906 🔗

It really makes me wonder what it is about all of us here that makes us see it differently? From what I can gauge we come from all over the world, span many age groups and are from many different cultural and economic backgrounds. Fascinates me what is in our make up and what is the common factor/correlation.

44235 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sarigan, 7, #331 of 1906 🔗

Cynicism. Curious minds. Critical thinking.

44239 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to matt, 4, #332 of 1906 🔗

Agreed, I am simply stunned at the vast majority that do not exhibit any of the
above. Lost in a worldwide field of sheep and incapability of independent thought and reasoning.

44301 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sarigan, 4, #333 of 1906 🔗

Just stand back and watch how, for most people, the world is still turning despite the faux human crisis that is going on outside our windows . The sun has been shining and there has been a street party atmosphere as we clapped the NHS and celebrated a socially distanced VE Day.

I had the misfortune of watching Good Moron on TV with that twonk Schofield and air head Holly Dullobilly. What a pair of yaying infants, but for people that watch that and all the inane adverts, they think all’s still good with the world. 80% pay (or 100% if you’re a ‘teacher’). What is there not to like about a government that’s keeping us kiddies safe?

44270 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to matt, 5, #334 of 1906 🔗

Yes and a distrust of authority…

44242 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 6, #335 of 1906 🔗

common f**~##g sense and I don’t like having the piss taken out of me.

44280 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 3, #336 of 1906 🔗

You soumd just like a friend of mine! Word for word!

I would go with the instinctual level, gut feeling tells you in core this is not natural, then obviously investigations to discover the detail. Here on the site skeptics are learned and self aware thinking people. Outside skeptics are really decent normal people not affected by media or political leanings of any direction.

44245 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ SRagdoll, replying to Sarigan, 15, #337 of 1906 🔗

I have been asking myself the same thing. In the beginning was concerned by initial reports looked to find out more about it, to understand the actual risk. But the more I read the more things didn’t tie up, and then I started to find sources of data that told a different story and off I went down the sceptic rabbit hole
Personally if I am asked to do something, I need to understand why I am being asked do do something or behave in a certain way. Does it make sense? is it rational? Is it proportional? As well know here it was none of these things. I don’t take well to following orders for the sake of it.

I studied the Social impacts of the Holocaust for my special subject at uni. I often asked myself if I had been in Germany at the time would I have had the balls to stand up for my convictions? I hope I would have, and while in no way comparable this is likely to be the closest I will get to being in a situation where I can stand up against something I believe to be inherently wrong and detrimental to society. I want to know that I have done something, even if it makes little difference now. Looking back I will at least know I made a stand.

44356 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to SRagdoll, 2, #338 of 1906 🔗

You may get the chance to test out your principles when they try to vaccinate us all, with Bill Gates’s special brew.

44423 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 6, #339 of 1906 🔗

A determination not to be bullied.
I was bullied in primary school, and had to get used to being the one the other spiteful little kids ganged up on. Eventually I realised that being a member if the herd wasn’t necessary to my happiness, and that every other worthwhile person was outside it. It’s hard for a child to grasp that cincept, and evidently the majority never do so.

44148 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Marcus, 2, #340 of 1906 🔗

A very insightful piece. I always appreciate his contribution on the Sky paper review, especially when he is paired with Christina Patterson. He winds her up – to be fair not that difficult – and she has that air of ‘looking down the nose’. (He also used to have that effect on Yasmin Alibhai-Brown!). Similarly, once watched Jenni Russell on Sky round table with Claire Fox (who I also rate very highly) and a very working class academic from Nottingham – that same ‘looking down the nose’. I have experienced it pretty much all my life, first at university then at work. Thing is, it is largely a middle class female thing. Most of my former business associates are from a higher social status, or are from overseas, and they do not behave that way. The middle class female thing rears its head in other places where those types have captured positions of power over lower class women – think NCT-type midwives and the breast-feeding nazis.

44154 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #341 of 1906 🔗

Ahh, you mean ‘Karen’!

44205 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to T. Prince, #342 of 1906 🔗

I can certainly identify with much of this lady’s background and experience:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/shamed-karen-has-made-change-name/

44139 Bart Simpson, 7, #343 of 1906 🔗

I read that Spiked article “Art under Lockdown” and I have to agree with the sentiments expressed in the article. Its sad how these sensible voices are not being heard while the luvvies of the art world have been strangely silent on how lockdown and antisocial distancing will hasten the demise of their sector and institutions but very vocal about BLM.

44145 Gko, replying to Gko, 22, #344 of 1906 🔗

I live in France AND I am currently in Spain for holidays. NO ONE wears a mask.

44164 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gko, 10, #345 of 1906 🔗

Hardly anyone is wearing them in Sweden – those that do are either old and frail-looking, or of Asian ethnicity..

44200 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #346 of 1906 🔗

We have (had?) a lot of Chinese students at the local Uni. Many of them wore masks as standard before the covid farce. Ironic that they seem less susceptible!

44165 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Gko, 4, #347 of 1906 🔗

Very good news about Spain. They’ve always had cojones. I do think that, no matter how stupid our government may be, eventually they will realise, if only through observation of foreign lands, that covid is not the plague. Or am I being naive?

44271 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to assoc, 7, #348 of 1906 🔗

Err, yes assoc. This is not about a virus. It is about control/a police state/power.

44170 ▶▶ annie, replying to Gko, 4, #349 of 1906 🔗

In France you are recommended to wear one if you have to get closer to someone than one metre. That’s official.

44186 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 4, #350 of 1906 🔗

Recommended, but is it enforced I wonder? Do people comply, or do they just keep their distance? What’s happened as regards the customary French greeting of kissing people on both cheeks?

44196 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #351 of 1906 🔗

Elbows and bum cheeks instead?

44424 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, #352 of 1906 🔗

That is. specifically mentioned as something to be avoided!

44152 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 32, #353 of 1906 🔗

So how do we get people to comprehend that it makes no sense to introduce masks for 68million people when at worst case we have 30,000 current cases (based on community testing, as far as I recall – though I cant remember where I’m sure that was the takeaway from ONS data?). ie.

To lay it out in a really simple conditional statement

if < 0.05% of the population are infectious
do not do things that lower the quality of life of the remaining 99.95% of people
end

How is it that so few scientists, let alone members of the general public, seem to grasp that this is the only logical conclusion for that data?

44163 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Mark II, 34, #354 of 1906 🔗

I don’t know Mark and this is the one element that is doing me serious damage mentally.The rest of it has been a pain but manageable. Your logic is impeccable, I have said this to many people and they have just blanched. It is the symbol of the defeated, the subjugated, the voiceless, the cowed, and has NOTHING to do with prevention of infection.This has taken me to the depths of despair. This is the nasty ugly face of fascism or totalitarianism, whatever you want to call it.

44172 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bella, 16, #355 of 1906 🔗

Indeed, i’m out of ideas – it’s like talking to empty shells, people seem incapable (or unwilling) of giving this any thought.

I’m not sure what lamenting this to each other on here is doing to help tho, other than it gives me some minor comfort to know im not alone in my despair…

44194 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, 18, #356 of 1906 🔗

I was talking to my mechanic. He feels like us!

There are more of us about than we realise, it’s just that we don’t have a way of identifying each other.

Divide and rule working beautifully.

However, this isn’t the only lockdown dissident website. There are sensible voices in the Hector Drummond comments. Ditto OffG and John Ward is back and on form at The Slog. Malcolm Kendrick also has a following of the suitably cynical, though more about The Science than the lockdown itself.

I find many of the commentators on the DT give a ray of hope – though you do have to plough through a sickening load of tosh from the remaining bigoted self-rightous idiots but we can do our own anti-ppropaganda campaign.

I confess, I lack the strength of character needed to tackle the Grad comments sections.

I’m going to have another go at my councillor tomorrow …….

44203 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #357 of 1906 🔗

If you go on Carl Vernon and Vernon Coleman’s You Tube videos, the comments are populated by sceptics. Ditto Simon Dolan’s Twitter page

44207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #358 of 1906 🔗

The Dollar Vigilante YouTube videos are a very good watch for skeptics (until they get removed!) more light hearted than some. Helps keep my spirits up.

44244 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Darryl, 1, #359 of 1906 🔗

Thanks. Will look them up.

44438 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Darryl, 2, #360 of 1906 🔗

They are always available on the main site – https://dollarvigilante.com/blog/

44425 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #361 of 1906 🔗

Yes, and it
f you do go on, tell such commenters about Lockdown Sceptics. (Answer their comment.) For many people, the feeling of being the only sane person in a mad world is the worst thing.

Twitter has a ‘burn the masks’ thread.

44260 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #362 of 1906 🔗

Thats what Im finding, many free thinkers out there. Not connecting. Many not online. But no less aware.

44183 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Bella, 13, #363 of 1906 🔗

It’s worrying me to the point of despair too Bella, but I am afraid compulsory mask wearing in England is coming, and I fear it will be normalized in society long after the virus is gone. It’s a terrible thought.

44210 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Adam, 12, #364 of 1906 🔗

The media and government just keep chipping away daily. More pro-mask articles appear. I am convinced it is about submission and breaking people down.

44574 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Adam, #365 of 1906 🔗

Fear is failure, Adam.

44211 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella, 7, #366 of 1906 🔗

Quite, especially as there are now hardly any infections let alone deaths, and NOW they bring in muzzles

44198 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Mark II, 12, #367 of 1906 🔗

I fear that muzzles will be mandatory in England from next week. Scotland introducing it Friday, Wales looking into it, English MP’s discussing it now…. It fills me with dread. I will not wear one ever! Had a heated discussion with the better half tonight, she is as sceptical as me but said that she would wear one to stop being fined. I was told that there would be major family trouble if I refused to pay any fines & the bailiffs came!
Looks like I’ll be sleeping in the shed or at Her Majesties pleasure.

44362 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Mark II, 6, #368 of 1906 🔗

They don’t speak up because bad things may happen. However by not speaking up, even worse things will likely happen to them and to everyone else. They are in a lose big lose situation. Time to grow some.

44173 annie, replying to annie, 3, #369 of 1906 🔗

DT headline (don’t get full article as have unsubscribed):
French bus driver declared brain dead after being attacked by people when he refused to let them get on board without face masks.

44177 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #370 of 1906 🔗

I can see that happening here much like when that policeman in Norther Ireland was beaten up for trying to enforce the antisocial distancing guidelines.

44184 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, #371 of 1906 🔗

So what do we think Sadiq Khan might do if he reads about this?

44268 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to annie, 6, #372 of 1906 🔗

I am fearful that this incident is just being used as another propaganda piece to beat us into wearing masks by making out those who don’t comply are lawless thugs. There is so much fake news and propaganda every day I am skeptical of everything now.

44187 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #373 of 1906 🔗

I’m wondering if all these scaremongering stories about Leicester, face masks and even pubs having to close again after 3 days of trading while at the same time not reporting the job losses and businesses going under is basically concealing the fact that everyone knows that we are sitting under a powder keg that’s ready to explode at any given time. When Otto von Bismarck was once asked what would trigger a major conflict he replied “some damned foolish thing in the Balkans” and he was proven to be right when the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife in 1914 led to World War I.

There are many things going on that could fit this “damned foolish thing in the Balkans” analogy and the only question now is what would be that spark that would light the powder keg and lead to unrest and possibly violence?

44188 ▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #374 of 1906 🔗

I’m just waiting in expectation, with little hope. We’re going out of town for a couple of weeks in August and I’m Seriously considering getting steel shutters on the front windows when we do.

44209 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 5, #375 of 1906 🔗

Its hard to tell agree but I live and hope that the mounting job losses, continuing damage to the economy, rise of domestic violence and child abuses, suicides and deaths from cancer, etc will finally wake people up.

44226 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #376 of 1906 🔗

Yes but they’ll just blame the virus not the lockdown.

It is getting harder to hide though

44247 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to chris c, 2, #377 of 1906 🔗

Agree. One to work at that, not letting the virus take the blame. It was the reaction by men and women not many in number compared to those who will suffer.

44190 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Bart Simpson, 15, #378 of 1906 🔗

Mandatory mask wearing. I will never wear a mask, even if the psychos in charge throw me in jail.

44215 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #379 of 1906 🔗

They keep on making it harder for us to resist by normalising mask wearing and vilifying us if we don’t. Only the very strong minded will be able to resist. I think most people are broken down already and will submit to anything.

44253 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Darryl, 6, #380 of 1906 🔗

I think many people will resist the face covering. It is clear the media are currently responding to peoples resistence by putting out poor, quickly made propaganda pieces.

44265 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Basics, 3, #381 of 1906 🔗

I suspect the government Behavioural Insights Team are behind the increase in propaganda. They boast that they can control the population as they please, and so far they have been right! Most people will unquestionably wear a mask if they keep seeing propaganda of Nurses and Old people asking them too wear them – they just don’t think for themselves.

44285 ▶▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Basics, 7, #382 of 1906 🔗

I thought that within a few weeks of lockdown, most people would have resisted it, but they didn’t; they just rolled over and accepted it for 3 whole months. I fear they will simply roll over and accept face nappies too. People are spineless.

44295 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Adam, 4, #383 of 1906 🔗

I always hoped the young would resist as it has been know from day one that it doesn’t usually kill them and it is screwing up their futures. But unfortunately nothing but submission and compliance. They population seems incredible weak willed.

44571 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Darryl, 2, #384 of 1906 🔗

I wouldn’t say it’s complete compliance. Illegal raves seem to be popping up all over the place now and the police have fought several pitched battles in London to try and shut down illegal parties. I expect these sorts of things to happen more and more as this wretched business drags on and on.

44436 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Basics, 3, #385 of 1906 🔗

What they will do is threaten businesses. We will shut you down if you sell to people with no masks. And there are plenty of people eager to narc. My governor actually said: “no mask, no services.” It is the same strategy used by dictators. If you don’t obey, I’ll punish someone else.

44570 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RyanM, #386 of 1906 🔗

What line of business is that, please RyanM ?

44202 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 8, #387 of 1906 🔗

I’m sure that others on here will be as horrified as I am by the ‘a vaccine is the only way out of this’ nonsense.

  1. There’s no need for it, based on what we now know about the CCP virus
  2. I have very serious concerns about the short and long term safety of it
  3. It should not be mandatory. If it was a 100% no brainer to take it then they should be able to sell it to us on its merits

My research into vaccines led me to the book below. If only 10% of the content is correct then we have a lot to be concerned about. Apparently, 1 in 36 boys in the US now have autism. In the 70s, it was 1 in 10,000. The arguments of better testing and wider definition don’t stand up to scrutiny according to the book. There’s lots of research cited to back all the assertions in the book up. Highly recommended.

JB Handley ‘How to end the Autism Epidemic: Revealing the truth about vaccines’
https://tinyurl.com/yayeu82v
You can also listen to a very good interview with the author here:
https://tinyurl.com/yaodluwu (part 1) and https://tinyurl.com/y7n5n39q (part 2)

44227 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #388 of 1906 🔗

I get the strong impression that Bill Gates has effectively brought the medical profession and many media outlets. I find his obsession with control over populations very sinister. He also seems to have influence in the food industry via GM crops and lab grown meat and now funds many online fact checkers. Hopefully Boris isn’t still having his weekly phone calls with Gates.

44231 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Darryl, 4, #389 of 1906 🔗

The other lot hiding in plain sight is the Seventh Day Adventists who are behind the anti-meat grain based high carb low fat dietary nonsense. I think Wellcome Trust is a SDA front. I notice the vegans have been very quiet about covid

44248 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to chris c, 5, #390 of 1906 🔗

I personally find the lab grown meat very strange. I didn’t realise how Monsanto had gained so much control of agriculture by forcing farmers to use their patented seeds until recently. It’s incredibly sinister how these large corporations seem to try to control every aspect of our lives. I have noticed that vegans and groups like PETA have been completely silent on animal experiments being carried out for so called Covid19 vaccines. I guess their morals weren’t particularly strong.

44305 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Darryl, 5, #391 of 1906 🔗

That’s because they don’t really have animal welfare at heart they just have a misplaced loathing of human beings and their life choices permit them to express this in a socially approved way. There’s a sweeping statement for you, they’re always the best.

44314 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Cruella, 1, #392 of 1906 🔗

I would guess 10,000s of animals are being experimented on worldwide so I genuinely thought there would be some criticism. But I guess at the end of the day they are more fearful of being criticised by their Woke brethren.

44969 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Darryl, #393 of 1906 🔗

Have a look at whosponsors EAT-Lancet

https://eatforum.org/initiatives/fresh/

They make the poison AND the antidote

You make a great point about animal experimentation and vaccines

44234 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, 6, #394 of 1906 🔗

Bill Gates comes across in all the interviews I’ve seen, as actually *enjoying* all this…it is creepy..

44240 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Carrie, 6, #395 of 1906 🔗

In every interview I see off him and Melinda recently it looks like they are having the time of their lives. They both keep on smirking and laughing in interviews when talking about the ‘next wave’ or ‘pandemic 2’ it is very creepy. But Guardian reader and BBC viewers seem to see him as a god like figure. Fauci also comes across as very insincere but at least he hides his glee.

44299 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Darryl, 4, #396 of 1906 🔗

I think you’re right, he’s a very troubling man. It would seem he has world domination in mind, using his tech empire and unprecedented wealth to insidiousley gain control while maintaining the facade of a philanthropist. I think history will remember him differently. I also have the grave disadvantage of being dependent on his software at work which makes me want to punch a nun at least 30 times a day.

44316 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cruella, 2, #397 of 1906 🔗

Sincere point here but may sound irreverant.
Microsoft OS have been fully toe-curlingly awful for decades. Absolute crap. Unstable and badly designed.

Because of the awkwardness in use the amount of wasted productivity man hours lost to solving/working around/recovering/finding would be a crime against humanity in a fairer world.

Your microsoft frustrations and losses multiplied by all users. Imagine the waste, the carbon footprint of recovering from all those viruses and crashes.

44330 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 2, #398 of 1906 🔗

And yet, the man at the heart of it is supposed to be able to orchestrate the greatest, best planned global takeover the world has ever seen? Sorry, but the bloke behind windows 3.1 is no Blofeld.

44704 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 2, #399 of 1906 🔗

He never needed to be a software genius. He just needed to understand how to gain the monopoly in the marketplace – and he’s extremely good at pulling that off!

44813 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #400 of 1906 🔗

He’s not done too badly peddling junk. Quite a trick to become super wealthy and create such monopoly pumping rubbish. I fancy he is no slouch. Building empires in health that gave rise for the BMJ to sound the alarm in 2018 about how all encompassing gates money is.

For my money he can orchrstrate a heck of a lot. There’s the wonderful 1930s film about how Rothchild used the battle of Waterloo to increase wealth beyond imaginings – such a simple plan.

Because it fits the idea of enormous wealth:
“Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws! — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

45940 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #401 of 1906 🔗

How about a class action lawsuit by all of us who have spent hundreds of hours troubleshooting Microsoft OS crashes and glitches? Add them all up and it is probably in the billions.

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation webpage has a timeline of most (probably not all) of their activities beginning from 1997. Mergers, hirings and firings, press releases, communiqués. It would probably take more than one person to trace all the connecting dots.

44973 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Cruella, #402 of 1906 🔗

How long bnefore they pull down his statue?

44266 ▶▶ assoc, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #403 of 1906 🔗

By the time the vaccine is ‘ready’ (tested or not), the virus will probably have mutated, and weakened, beyond recognition, so no problem. The problem comes if and when science claims to have a vaccine against all types of coronavirus.
It goes without saying that nobody in their right mind would submit to an untested vaccination, but no doubt government will find sneaky ways to enforce it. I believe that Royal Assent would be needed for legislation to compel this (it couldn’t just be passed in Council). Such Assent hasn’t been refused for more than 300 years. Perhaps now is the time.
.

44273 ▶▶▶ assoc, replying to assoc, 4, #404 of 1906 🔗

As the law stands now, vaccination of a person over the age of consent, against their will, constitutes assault

44289 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to assoc, 6, #405 of 1906 🔗

I think we know they will either make it mandatory or make life so miserable and difficult without it that people will effectively be forced into having it. It is a complete scam making it mandatory and increases my suspicions that there is something more sinister to the vaccine. It is well publicised that government love the idea of an electronic Vaccination ID and would love to bring in ID2020. All very sinister stuff that will be used to control and monitor us.

44294 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Darryl, #406 of 1906 🔗

I do not believe this.

44321 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to matt, 4, #407 of 1906 🔗

I truly hope not, but the last 4 months are making me lose all faith in the authorities. I just can’t see why you would so cruelly lock down entire populations for such a long time despite the virus being far less serious than first believed.

44327 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Darryl, 3, #408 of 1906 🔗

Because you were sufficiently ill-informed at the beginning to fear the worst and your population (or media) was demanding it, so you panicked and then you were badly advised and then you really really don’t want people to realise how stupid the whole thing has been.

44335 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to matt, 1, #409 of 1906 🔗

Remember that the authorities downgraded the virus from being a high consequence infectious disease on 19 March. So they must have had a pretty good idea it wasn’t the new plague. They could have gone easier on the fear propaganda.

44353 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Darryl, 2, #410 of 1906 🔗

“Not generally” isn’t the same as “not never”. I agree with you – they should have had better advice and they should have had the gumption to hold the line. But they didn’t and now they don’t want us to realise they screwed up, so they’re doubling down.

At least, I hope that’s true, otherwise the only other options are: they still think this is the Black Death, against all the evidence; or it’s the lizard people.

44407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to matt, 3, #411 of 1906 🔗

No, there are other shades of dystopian possible. Like… just greed. That plutocrats and technocrats are greedy bastards who already bought every politician left and right of the divide.

44523 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 1, #412 of 1906 🔗

Lizards it is then. 🙂

44707 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to assoc, #413 of 1906 🔗

Doesn’t the 84 Health Act get round that one by having you arrested and sectioned? It’s all very sinister.

44384 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 7, #414 of 1906 🔗

I’ll take it, a year after Bill Gates and his children, Matt Handjob and his, Boris and his, Anthony Fauci and HIS, etc. etc. take it and none of them grow an extra head.

44711 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #415 of 1906 🔗

Unfortunately, it only works on HUMANS!

44212 AN other lockdown sceptic, 23, #416 of 1906 🔗

Muzzle wearing is very difficult to police in reality I reckon. Only a very short sighted shop keeper will say ‘I’m sorry but I’m not going to take your money now and don’t care if you never come back, unless you wear a stupid muzzle’.

I’m seeing very few people wearing them out here in the French alps. The shop assistants that I’ve come across have appeared joyful that I haven’t been wearing one.

I’ve not worn one yet and intend to keep it that way!

May the force be with you fellow LSs / non muzzle wearing conscientious objectors

44213 SRagdoll, replying to SRagdoll, 20, #417 of 1906 🔗

Have seen the TFL Mask Gestapo doing the rounds at Clapham Junction both yesterday and today. Yesterday two less than subtle guys in high-vis and today the police. Didn’t stop me getting on the bus without a mask once they had walked off though!

44216 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to SRagdoll, 8, #418 of 1906 🔗

Nice work!

44236 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to SRagdoll, 10, #419 of 1906 🔗

It seems to be inconsistently enforced at the moment. I got hassled for not wearing a mask on an empty concourse at Victoria one day but usually the staff don’t seem bothered. Thameslink trains don’t seem to have conductors on trains so it is possible to get away without wearing a mask – plus I have a carriage to myself quite often. The rules are a complete joke unfortunately most just comply.

44259 ▶▶▶ SRagdoll, replying to Darryl, 9, #420 of 1906 🔗

Have downloaded the TFL exemption card to avoid confrontation if I do get given any shit.

Have gotten SW trains a couple of times lately and was not policed at all. The guard doesn’t checking tickets so, I think they are just taking the easy option of not trying to police it. Most of the time all it takes is for a couple of people not to be wearing them, or doing it chins strap stylie for others to do the same.

44282 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to SRagdoll, 5, #421 of 1906 🔗

Most public transport staff luckily seem to prefer the easy life, unfortunately there are always the officious few and they are more confrontational in groups. I think many realise it is a complete joke as most trains are pretty much empty.

44296 ▶▶▶▶▶ SRagdoll, replying to Darryl, 6, #422 of 1906 🔗

Yeah at this rate they will all be going bust in no time. There are more staff ‘keeping us safe’ than actual passengers

44297 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to SRagdoll, 2, #423 of 1906 🔗

As well as the TFL one, there is a Network West Midlands equivalent. The wording on the back of that one is that the card is to be considered proof of exemption – i.e. no questioning allowed.

https://www.networkwestmidlands.com/media/3407/wmn_facemask_exemption_printathome_v2.pdf

44713 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TheBluePill, #424 of 1906 🔗

Thanks for this TBP.

44267 ▶▶ matt, replying to SRagdoll, 2, #425 of 1906 🔗

“70 year on man on life support after justified beating by gang of righteous young men on train. Was not wearing mask. Disgusting.”

Matter of time.

44274 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to matt, 6, #426 of 1906 🔗

I see where you’re going with that but I think the virtue signalling type wouldn’t dare touch another person, and lack the upper body strength to land a good right hook. They’re more likely to film you on their iPhone 10 and put it on Face cloth or twatter.

44292 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cruella, #427 of 1906 🔗

Groupthink reaches surprisingly well into the Millwall crowd too.

44354 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, #428 of 1906 🔗

Sadly true.

44281 sam, replying to sam, 11, #429 of 1906 🔗

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/the-coronavirus-act-2020/?utm_source=backer_social&utm_campaign=the-coronavirus-act-2020&utm_reference=076bcc354f4bb5833b456bb67e109999&utm_medium=email&utm_content=post_pledge_page
We have now established that The Coronavirus Act 2020 is null and void. There are many reasons for this, the main one being that S1(1) of the Act defines ‘coronavirus’ as being ‘covid-19’ or it’s other name ‘SARS Cov-2’. However, by virtue of the fact that it is not legally, medically or scientifically recognised as a disease or virus it cannot be legislated against, and this makes the whole Act null and void.
The reason for this is that ‘covid-19’ has not been subjected to the 130 year established legal, medical and scientific procedure that recognises if it is actually a disease or virus or not, which is known as the Koch Postulates. This involves purifying and isolating the ‘disease’ or ‘virus’ and proving that it actually causes the illness that it is claimed that it does.

44719 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to sam, #430 of 1906 🔗

What’s with the crying child? Nauseatingly offputting and debases the argument!

44283 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 24, #431 of 1906 🔗

Good write up from Toby today, but I see one problem throughout it. He keeps referring to a Conservative Government but so far under Boris I have seen very little Conservatism. This government seems to have been more about totalitarianism with this lockdown, the destruction of the economy, and the acceptance of all these Marxists protesters ideologies and the destroying of the UK’s history.

If I’d been on stuck on a desert island for the last 8 months and just come back home and been told the above, then I would’ve thought that Corbyn and his Marxist friends had won the general election and were now in power!

44309 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to JohnB, 11, #432 of 1906 🔗

Certainly doesn’t look like a Conservative government. Personally I think it looks more likely than ever that we are heading towards the one world New World Order style government that the intellectual elite seem to desire. The World Economic Forum even have a promotional video about a ‘Global Reset’.

44401 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 5, #433 of 1906 🔗

Too right. Where are the Conservative MPs coming out in numbers to condemn BLM Marxists. violent rioting and censorship of free speech? Nowhere to be seen or heard. .

What you can’t condemn, you get.

44284 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 22, #434 of 1906 🔗

This pandemic is over.

44288 ▶▶ matt, replying to RDawg, 10, #435 of 1906 🔗

Sure. But was it ever a pandemic?

44360 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to matt, 2, #436 of 1906 🔗

“Pandemic”

44720 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RDawg, #437 of 1906 🔗

Plannedemic

44298 ▶▶ Basics, replying to RDawg, 6, #438 of 1906 🔗

Thanks. I think your declaration is the closest we are going to get to that being said officially.

How much of a flat trend can they spin the fear for? It’s going to be mighty difficult to show the effect of face coverings along the coming flats. They cannot afford an increase after face coverings comes in. (I am presupposing masks are to come).

44434 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to RDawg, 5, #439 of 1906 🔗

Time to criminalize not wearing masks! You know, just to be on the safe side.

After all, they’ve already decided (here in Washington) to require masks on kids in school this September! These edicts do not bend to reality.

44655 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RDawg, 2, #440 of 1906 🔗

This graph, by itself, would make an excellent leaflet.

44306 SRagdoll, #441 of 1906 🔗

=

44328 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #442 of 1906 🔗
44370 ▶▶ assoc, replying to HawkAnalyst, 11, #443 of 1906 🔗

Don’t worry. Compared to two months ago hardly anybody came out. Thank God

44393 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to assoc, 8, #444 of 1906 🔗

Yep – there was definitely clap-fatigue! What we need now is a two minute hate for anyone whose loved ones have been killed prematurely by NHS indifference, neglect, incompetence, wrong diagnosis or wrong treatment. So that will be 10 million out on the street. 🙂

44433 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #445 of 1906 🔗

It was a damp squib and thank the Lord for that.

44733 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, -1, #446 of 1906 🔗

Fantastic article. Says it all!!

Here’s a comment:
In my street there were several home made “Thank You NHS” posters in windows. All gone. Weeks ago.You can kid most of the people some of the time.

Yay! Let’s hope they now start looking at the lockdown!

44332 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #447 of 1906 🔗

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/covid-19-close-losing-its-epidemic-status-us-according-cdc

COVID-19 is close to losing its epidemic status in the U.S., according to the CDC

44339 ▶▶ assoc, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #448 of 1906 🔗

Rejoice rejoice!

44348 ▶▶▶ assoc, replying to assoc, 2, #449 of 1906 🔗

I knew those bloody minded yankees would save us in the end. God bless America!

44432 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to assoc, 2, #450 of 1906 🔗

Don’t get your hopes up! It is still pretty crazy, here. Depends a great deal on where you live, though.

44347 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #451 of 1906 🔗

Until they then claim the tests are actually as inaccurate as they have been shown to be, therefore there could be many many undiagnosed cases, therefore panic once again….

44392 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #452 of 1906 🔗

How to match that with the hysterical reporting on ITV?

44472 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #453 of 1906 🔗

And yet the push for mask wearing gathers momentum.

44333 assoc, replying to assoc, 3, #454 of 1906 🔗

Even now one has to smile occasionally. Headline in the New Statesman – ‘sacking Long Bailey was a mistake, abandoning Corbynism would be a disaster’. Bless ‘em, that’ll keep the Tories in power until the year 2525.

44342 ▶▶ matt, replying to assoc, 6, #455 of 1906 🔗

Unfortunately, statism actually won the last election. It’s just that none of us realised we were voting for it.

44334 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #456 of 1906 🔗

The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Should Professional Athletes be More Worried about Coronavirus or Lightning?

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/peace-and-prosperity/2020/july/05/should-professional-athletes-be-more-worried-about-coronavirus-or-lightning/

44343 ▶▶ matt, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #457 of 1906 🔗

I’m going to guess “neither”.

44336 HawkAnalyst, 3, #458 of 1906 🔗

Who’s the ‘con artist’ now? Robert De Niro’s restaurant chain taking up to $28 MILLION from Trump admin Covid-19 relief loans

 https://www.rt.com/usa/494059-robert-deniro-trump-nubo-loans/

44340 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #459 of 1906 🔗

This again? New coronavirus lockdown triggers second wave of panic buying in Australia

 https://www.rt.com/news/494085-australia-coronavirus-panic-buying/

44391 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #460 of 1906 🔗

I am sure the ANZAC troops who struggled through deadly jungle, met the foe on the unforgiving desert plains or launched heroic assault up sheer cliffs under machine gun fire must be effing spinning in their graves at double speed.

44344 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 15, #461 of 1906 🔗

I’m concerned for the future (as ever, it’s par for the course these days) on where mask wearing will lead. Given COVID-19 has practically gone, yet now we’re being told masks are the new seatbelts, how can we ever not wear masks? Surely once COVID-19 goes, it only makes sense to continue to wear them to protect the vulnerable from the inevitable flu this winter. Why would we ever stop wearing masks if they do this wondrous thing of stopping us ever spreading airborne diseases? I assume that these scientists have never realised that almost everyone has a very robust immune system to deal with illness year in year out, and every illness anyone ever gets must be a fluke to recover from.

44389 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Youth_Unheard, 7, #462 of 1906 🔗

Exactly. Either you agree with the Lockdown Puritans and we must be forever muzzled for our sins or…we’ll we decide this has been a totally insane moment in our history (think Gordon Riots or Winter of Discontent) that must be set to one side immediately and never repeated.

44450 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to Youth_Unheard, 7, #463 of 1906 🔗

Yes, why? The virus has pretty much burnt out now. So why the face masks at this point. Is it because we will be told the only way we can return to normal is by taking a vaccine.

44471 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mark B, 3, #464 of 1906 🔗

My thoughts exactly. I read in the DT that a third of people would refuse the vaccine.

44684 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Bella Donna, #465 of 1906 🔗

That sounds about on par. Around 70% of elderly people take up the UK annual flu vaccine and only 40% of vulnerable people.

44652 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #466 of 1906 🔗

I am convinced (I hope to God I am wrong) that mask wearing will become the accepted normal, and those who don’t will be treated as pariahs.

44653 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Adam, #467 of 1906 🔗

Take at least one of them with you ! Zombie movies give ideas about strategy, tactics, and techniques. 🙂

44345 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #468 of 1906 🔗
44351 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #469 of 1906 🔗

Can’t read it (paywall). Any good extracts?

44357 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to Tenchy, 4, #470 of 1906 🔗

Some early assumptions about Covid-19 no longer add up—and that could be good news for the future progress of the virus. There are reasons to think the novel coronavirus began spreading earlier than previously understood, raising the possibility that herd immunity is closer than we think. Chinese authorities say they first identified a case in Wuhan in November, but Beijing didn’t lock down Hubei province until Jan. 23. For two months direct flights ran from Wuhan to 30 cities outside China, including London, New York, Paris, Rome and San Francisco. Scientists have found traces of the virus in wastewater samples collected in Italy as early as mid-December and in Brazil beginning in late November.

44431 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #471 of 1906 🔗

Early – and ongoing – assumptions have never added up. There have always been accepted assumptions that cannot coexist, and that became clear months ago.

44430 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #472 of 1906 🔗

The comments on that article are depressing as fuck. Funny thing, people decrying it as irresponsible, bad science, terrible article that peddles lies… But … They don’t really give any reason for saying those things. Just, essentially, they don’t like the implications. But why? Are people that emotionally attached to the idea of a terrible disaster? I sincerely don’t get it.

44458 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to RyanM, #473 of 1906 🔗

The bedwetters don’t like it

44515 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RyanM, 1, #474 of 1906 🔗

It really is brainwashing and cognitive dissonance; any alternative viewpoint is seen as a personal attack.

44576 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RyanM, 1, #475 of 1906 🔗

It’s one of the most bizarre parts of the whole thing, how people seem to get upset every time there’s a bit of good news!

44350 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #476 of 1906 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/07/deaths-caused-coronavirus-would-have-happened-later-year-says/

Some deaths caused by coronavirus would have happened later this year, says ONS

44355 ▶▶ matt, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #477 of 1906 🔗

“Some”?

44365 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #478 of 1906 🔗

Even Ferguson stated as much as 2/3rds of his projected deaths would be an overlap of people expected to die anyway.

44386 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #479 of 1906 🔗

Surely shome mishtake? Don’t they mean “a fuckload”?

44455 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #480 of 1906 🔗

Who knew

44359 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #481 of 1906 🔗

USA but I wish we would do something similar:

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/cares-act/assistance-for-small-businesses/sba-paycheck-protection-program-loan-level-data
SBA Paycheck Protection Program Loan Level Data | U.S. Department of the Treasury

Small Business Loans Helped the Well-Heeled and Connected, Too
https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-releases-names-of-biggest-ppp-borrowers-11594047600

44361 ▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #482 of 1906 🔗

I mean get information on who we gave money to!

44367 Biker, replying to Biker, 46, #483 of 1906 🔗

Wearing a face mask isn’t a small price to pay. Who thinks this? It’s a fundamental infringement of my right to live and breathe as a free man. I am absolutely outraged at this situation and won’t be complying. If you are scared to go out stay in and stop expecting me to give a single fuck about how you feel about it.

44385 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Biker, 15, #484 of 1906 🔗

Absolutely. The more I think about it (still having managed to avoid being put in a situation where I have to “take the mask” so far) the more I feel I’d rather die than wear one. One thing we can, I hope, agree on is that slavery is wrong and the slave muzzle was one of the worst and most outrageous infringements of human dignity ever invented. We are humans, social animals, mammals, free living beings. To muzzle our faces is literally an inhuman act.

44390 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to OKUK, 2, #485 of 1906 🔗

And no lockdown

44387 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Biker, 4, #486 of 1906 🔗

In Iceland, no masks, no social distancing… You ok in the UK? What is going on.

44508 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to BJJ, 4, #487 of 1906 🔗

Someone is taking revenge on the UK because we always send our worst music to the Eurovision song contest

44509 ▶▶▶ Graham, replying to BJJ, 1, #488 of 1906 🔗

For my part I’m coming to Iceland in a few days to ride your wonderful horses. I came last September and immediately booked again. Luckily my riding school reopened three weeks ago and I’ve been able to get back in the saddle. We live deep in the country and have mostly been able to ignore the lockdown apart from the deadness of our local town, which is dispiriting.

44394 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Biker, 18, #489 of 1906 🔗

I will never ever wear a face mask, ever. Weird and creepy. Masks scare me at the best (worst) of times, Waring a mask is just wrong It causes dissociation, brings about fear, subjugation, order and conformity. In, not so sunny Wales, Herr Drakeford and co. will be bringing this farce in too, probably next week or so. I will never ever comply

44399 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Kath Andrews, 5, #490 of 1906 🔗

“It causes dissociation, brings about fear,”

I think that is my main problem with it – it’s not my personal inconvenience it’s the social impact which is bad, bad, bad. It has to be – since our faces are how we evolved from something like a lemur to what we are now (or were very recently).

44404 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, 11, #491 of 1906 🔗

My main problem is that it subdues communication. You can’t hear each other talk or see each other’s lips move. You can’t see facial expressions beyond how they reflect in the eyes. It puts a barrier between people instantly. Vile.

44408 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Farinances, 12, #492 of 1906 🔗

It’s also discriminating against the thousands of people who have to lip read.

44695 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #493 of 1906 🔗

My dad is deaf and is already having problems understanding people- a good part of his hearing cognition comes from lip reading these days

44435 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 8, #494 of 1906 🔗

And people who claim that you can still smile with your eyes is lying. The whole point of communication is you see the person’s whole face then add in body language and tone of voice because you get the nuance of what the person is trying to say or not saying. A muzzle is a barrier full stop and no amount of spinning will change the fact that it causes issues with effective communication.

44437 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #495 of 1906 🔗

I agree. And, even if you are lucky enough to have full hearing, I think all of us employ a degree of lip-reading when we are listening to someone speak. I’m having real problems understanding people who are masked up.

44461 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 2, #496 of 1906 🔗

That’s a good point. We all rely on lip reading in varying degrees to communicate and I’ve been having issues with understanding people who wear masks asking them to repeat what they’ve said.

44782 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #497 of 1906 🔗

Weif this becomes oblgatory, we need to make a pantomime of not understanding what’s been said, while mumbling incoherently into our own muzzle.

44452 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Farinances, 5, #498 of 1906 🔗

i wonder how many people who complain about the wearing of the niqab because it covers the mouth and so affects communications are quite happy to wear a face mask?

44698 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to mjr, 1, #499 of 1906 🔗

I’ve already had arguments with the Wokerati about the fact I don’t agree with burkas being worn in jobs that require face to face communication/trust. (Doctors, teachers, police etc.)

44806 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Farinances, 1, #500 of 1906 🔗

My main problem with it is that it is dehumanising, which is the point. It’s exactly the aim of forcing the things on us. The practical problems are chickenfeed compared to the psychological problems. It announces::’You are a prisoner’.

44466 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to OKUK, 5, #501 of 1906 🔗

It’s dehumanising and unnecessary.

44783 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #502 of 1906 🔗

That’s the whole point of the niquab. Women as objects and property – as in goods and cattle.

44467 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Biker, 1, #503 of 1906 🔗

Well said, that man.

44369 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 2, #504 of 1906 🔗

Covid is even infecting my music time.

I was listening to a fun album today by Caroline Polachek (released last year I think, very good intelligent pop, I’d recommend) called Pang. There’s a track on it called ‘New Normal’. Funny in itself.

I think it’s actually a love song but it contains some creepily prescient lyrics.

“Now what is this
blizzard in April
We’re cheating death,
Buying time from the winter
It’s house arrest
No stopping for dinner.
…………..
The SUV smashes into the sidewalk
And 911 won’t answer the call
…………
What is this
Hollywood ghost town
A shootout scene, no actors at all,
Last night I dreamed
We all were immortal
it’s no big deal
This new kind of normal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTMrQl_MqcA

Caroline, are you psychic?

44378 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Farinances, #505 of 1906 🔗

That is weird….pertinent

44375 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 31, #506 of 1906 🔗

Also I’ve noticed the BBC are now showing the UK Column style excess death graph.

Without the Covid line, of course. So they just show the graph with the massive spike, without providing any context whatsoever – heavily implying that ‘excess death’ = ‘covid death’ when it’s actually death from ALL causes.

Most people won’t get this, sad to say. They will shit themselves thinking that massive spike is all covid.

The BBC are absolutely vile. They know what they’re doing and they’re making NO EFFORT to provide accurate information whatsoever. They’re using the information to propagandise.

44513 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #507 of 1906 🔗

All BBC employees are, and always have been, vetted by MI5. Shows the importance they attribute to the media.

44382 OKUK, replying to OKUK, #508 of 1906 🔗

I don’t think I can have been the only one to detect a triumphant and rejoicing tone in the BBC’s reports of President Bolsanaro having contracted Covid-19. In every Beeboid’s (little) brain is the thought: “That’s two out of the five bastards now! Johnson and Bolsanaro… If only we can get the final three – Abe, Modi, and of course, the ultimate prize – Trump! Note to American Press Corps – take off your nappy masks and cough in the President’s direction!

44383 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to OKUK, #509 of 1906 🔗

Erdogan?

44398 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to BJJ, 1, #510 of 1906 🔗

Damn! I knew there was one other and it is he. Anyone who doesn’t bend the knee to CV19 will be taken down by the hostile and hypocritical media (who only wear the mask-nappies while on camera).

44512 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #511 of 1906 🔗

How’s the Belarus geezer doing ?

44543 ▶▶▶▶▶ Invunche, replying to JohnB, 1, #512 of 1906 🔗

Tegnell as well.

He’s on a par with Himmler and Sweden is a failed state in the BBC narrative.

44395 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 2, #513 of 1906 🔗

the one institutionalised by the text books of Howard Zinn and taught in every American high school”

Having both gone to American high school and read Howard Zinn, that sentence confuses me, because Zinn versus American High School history are night and day. They are completely contrary narratives, and Zinn writes passionately about uprising and rebellion, particularly slave rebellions. He also does an excellent job of explaining how poor whites were crushed under share-cropping the same and explains the cruelty inflicted on the indentured servants (including having toes cut off). The two classes were manipulated into racism in typical “divided we fall” fashion

44397 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to TyLean, 5, #514 of 1906 🔗

I don’t think we need BLM to teach us this but, yes, slavery was simply – and always has been – a vile institution…as it was in the Southern States but it has always been wherever it occurs be it West Africa, China, India or elsewhere. Feudalism wasn’t much better but no one is talking about serf reparations . If anyone wants to start a serf reparations hashtag on Twitter feel free.

My take is: don’t tinker with the past, improve the future.

44605 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to OKUK, 1, #515 of 1906 🔗

Serf reperations are an idea though, maybe the French would compensate us for William’s ‘harrying of the North’ – might help kick start the economy?

44816 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Old Bill, #516 of 1906 🔗

Willliam is the one who brought the feudal system to England. It explains why the Brits are much less independence-minded than the Americans.
“The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate” mentality still lives on.

44427 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to TyLean, #517 of 1906 🔗

Zinn’s version of history is almost entirely fictional. It is disgusting that it gets taught in any schools.

45087 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to RyanM, #518 of 1906 🔗

It doesn’t. That’s my point. No one teaches Zinn. (Or at least they didn’t 13 years ago when I left the States).

44409 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 11, #519 of 1906 🔗

Have any of my fellow Scottish inmates actually read the government’s page on “face coverings.” It’s the most batshit document my eyes have seen in many a moon:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-phase-2-staying-safe-and-protecting-others/pages/face-coverings/

And I’m also wondering if any of you are feeling a panic set in over the “face coverings” being required soon. I am. I have no intention of complying with it, but it’s the general trend that scares the shit out of me. Reading the government advice that reads like warring conjoined twins sharing the same pair of hands does not put me at ease.

44411 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to TyLean, 8, #520 of 1906 🔗

Yeah, I’m in a panic about Friday. Dread the thought of being shouted at in public by some little Hitler for not covering myself. As a laugh, someone should go into Tesco naked except for face mask. Plan to do a shop on Thursday to see me well into next week. Hopefully I will have some idea by then of how much compliance there is. If the rule is generally ignored, I will feel more confident about returning to the shops. I will NEVER wear a mask but need to get food otherwise we will starve.

44429 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Gillian, 5, #521 of 1906 🔗

This is one of the many things that really bugs me about this crapfest. If these people feel the need to implement these awful rules, at least they could do so with a modicum of civility or even, hey, humour.

In all the queues I have been in (although I have avoided going to shops with queues as far as possible) I haven’t witnessed any argy-bargy from customers (there has been a remarkable degree of docile compliance, actually). So the door-bods can’t even excuse their surliness by saying they are getting abuse.

44824 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, #522 of 1906 🔗

Maybe the door bods also know it’s a load of bollox and are unhappy about how they’re being forced to earn a living.

44818 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, #523 of 1906 🔗

Maybe naked wearing a “face covering” but elsewhere than your face – couldn’t be charged with indecency then either.

44820 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #524 of 1906 🔗

NB works better for men!

44420 ▶▶ Mark H, replying to TyLean, 5, #525 of 1906 🔗

What’s the new law that makes face coverings mandatory in shops? Twitter is awash with this question, but no one seems to have the answer. Is this how the legal system works in Scotland now; the government declares “it’s the law”, therefore it’s now the law?

44506 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Mark H, 3, #526 of 1906 🔗

It’s a kind of magic up here in bonnie Scotland. Under Frau Sturgeon we are all one dream, one soul, one prize, one goal, one golden glance of what should be.
This rage that lasts a thousand years will soon be gone
Trouble is there’s no chance for us, it’s all decided for us, this world has only one sweet moment set aside for us. Who wants to live forever anyway?

44825 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark H, #527 of 1906 🔗

Law or a magic guideline?

45098 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Mark H, #528 of 1906 🔗

I have searched the Scottish government website and can find nothing. The first I heard about it, my ex-husband was in a panic about getting his shopping done before the law comes in, because our 8-year-old autistic son will never, ever, ever be able to tolerate a mask. I want to know how long this “law” will be in existence.

44439 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to TyLean, 20, #529 of 1906 🔗

The evidence on the use of face coverings remains limited but supports their use in certain circumstances – evidence remains limited, well don’t fucking impose it on people.

Worrying me too but I have no plan to wear a mask (sorry face covering) and if I do I will make it obvious I am doing it out of sufferance and it will be a paper bag or full on scarf, hood up and sunglasses look at me everyone don’t I look utterly ridiculous and am clearly an idiot. I really can’t see shops refusing paying customers who aren’t complying and if it means that I demand the police are called then so be it. I will see it as a small victory in wasting police time.

I had a bit of a meltdown last week but after some tears and a good chat with my OH, who is a fellow sceptic but has chosen to find comfort in the small things for her own mental well-being I’ve come to the conclusion that I will show this whole situation and blind followers the contempt it/they deserve and laugh and be as sarcastic and difficult as I possibly can.

Stay strong and find comfort in the fact that you are not the only sane person who knows this is a load of old bollocks.

44497 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 6, #530 of 1906 🔗

Well said. Have a good cry if you need to, but get back on your kegs, stand tall, and be strong again.
Even great men falter. I think of Cranmer. A man of many weaknesses, but in the end, he found his courage. I’m no martyr, I’m not brave, but by the livingGod, I’m ANGRY and that will see me through.

44441 ▶▶ Nic, replying to TyLean, 5, #531 of 1906 🔗

Agree with you time to resist

44449 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Nic, 7, #532 of 1906 🔗

Refuse, resist, say no

44796 ▶▶ Basics, replying to TyLean, 1, #533 of 1906 🔗

It’s noticably absent no foresight has been given for tge point at which masks will be not law. It would be reasonable for the coercing powers to give a point to work towards. This absence is one element that gives me thought this meets the Amnesty International definition of torture. See Amazing Polly for a detailed look into lockdown c19 torture.

Also the guidance around the law states ‘we’ a lot. It is unclear who we is.

44410 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 14, #534 of 1906 🔗

Peter Thomson (and other defenders of the hopeless NHS GP system)

Brilliant article in Daily Telegraph by Alison Pearson about the complete and utter failure of the NHS and the GP system in particular. GPs (mainly wimmin) have run for the hills during the so-called pandemic and failed in their duty of care to the public who pay their wages. Comments are excoriating. Example:-

I can’t get a GP appt at the best of times let alone recently. We have 7 part-time female GPs who have turned a thriving surgery into a dead zone. It’s just pin money to them. Absolutely disgraceful.

Yup. I changed practices due to a situation exactly like that. Surgery full of part-timers who then moonlight at NHS24 in their spare time.

Correct! My friend couldn’t get an appt so paid, only to find it was her own GP!

44428 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Gillian, 12, #535 of 1906 🔗

Our surgery is exactly the same. It’s nigh on impossible to get an afternoon appointment because most of the GPs knock off work early. And woe betide you if you ask for an appointment that fits in with your work schedule, which most people have to. You can almost hear the receptionist going “you’ll have an appointment when it suits us and you’ll be bloody grateful for it” There’s one exceptional receptionist who is really lovely and goes out of her way to help – sad that she’s the only one though.

(Apologies to any genuinely hard-working, caring NHS professionals who frequent this site. It’s just that I haven’t encountered that many and that, sadly, is what informs my rants against the NHS on LS).

44440 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to kh1485, 14, #536 of 1906 🔗

There are always exceptions but I think that this crisis has shown up just exactly how ill served the public is by the GP trade (it can no longer be called a profession). This hasn’t happened overnight but the current crisis has shown a spotlight on the abysmal service provided by overpaid, over-entitled GPs-particularly of the wimmin part-time variety. GPs have thrown away the accumulated respect and good-will earned by earlier generations of GPs (particularly those GPs who toiled 24/7 through blood, sweat and tears, always on call) in the pre-NHS era. As a kid in the 1960s I remember the children of the local GPs being educated in the local comprehensive along with myself, and GPs living in normal semi-detached houses on modern estates in the suburb where I grow up. They lived in the communities in which they served, or at least not too far from the communities they served. Nowadays they live in big houses in the country with stable blocks and horses, and commute in to work in their Range Rovers. Their kids are educated privately, well away from the kids of the pleb patients. They take six weeks holiday a year, going to their villas in Tuscany and ski-ing in the winter and extra trips to be pampered at spa resorts. All paid from by a government too scared not to hand out the cash to a bunch of over-entitled, sponging middle-class whingers.

44445 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Gillian, -15, #537 of 1906 🔗

I think you are a very bitter person . Sorry you need to find your own blog.

44465 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #538 of 1906 🔗

You always know you’ve hit the truth when you get personal abuse.

44507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gillian, #539 of 1906 🔗

What you wrote sounds bitter to me, Gillian (perhaps justifiably so.). But I saw no abuse.

44866 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Gillian, #540 of 1906 🔗

Absolutely spot on I was at school with my GP’s son and I lived on a council estate. The service was wonderful compared to my local GP health centre today. Also no awful music to endure whilst you wait endlessly to be seen. They also looked at you rather than their computer screen once you got in to see them!

44490 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to kh1485, 5, #541 of 1906 🔗

The service provided by the surgery I’m registered with has changed beyond recognition. There was a time when you could depend on the staff there to do right by you — or at least try — but those days are long gone. I hate everything about going there these days, and avoid it as much as I possibly can.

44510 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hoppity, 1, #542 of 1906 🔗

‘An apple a day …’ has always been the correct attitude.

Our GPs have always been ‘ok’, but like may others, have virtually disappeared recently.

45007 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to kh1485, 1, #543 of 1906 🔗

It’s not neccessarily the doctors’ fault, now they have Practice Managers and PCTs (now replaced by CCGs).

Time was when we could get a doctor’s appointment within days, and the receptionists could do things like make adjacent appointments for me and my mother.

Then it changed. A friend was told the receptionist not the patient decided if he could see a doctor, and in his case he could only see a nurse. The nurse said there was nothing she could do and he must make another appointment to see the doctor. Well that served well to delay his diagnosis and treatment but also wasted the nurse’s time. Lots of similar examples.

Suddenly after years of this crap things seemed to improve, then my GP left (in the past she had been very scathing about “Big Brother” monitoring her “performance”) followed by all but two of the other GPs. Now they have locums probably at enormous expense.

I need to get my thyroid monitored but frankly why bother? It will probably advance my death but so what. I no longer have much to look forward to.The damage from FIFTY YEARS of undiagnosed diabetes is catching up with me now and the beauty of it is that my premature death will be blamed on eating fat, or meat, when the damage was caused by all those “healthy” carbs. Thanks to those clueless doctors in my past.

44444 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Gillian, -1, #544 of 1906 🔗

Hi sweetheart you really seem to think this blog is about you and your hatred of your GP blog and you are the blogger . It isnt . it is a blog about scepticism with regard to the government imposed lockdown. Maybe you can do your own blog ? I m off to work now. I have been working throughout and seeing patients as well face to face.

44447 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Peter Thompson, 17, #545 of 1906 🔗

wow… stand up and have a round of applause . seriously, whilst you may well be a conscientious and dedicated GP, many are not and the comments on this blog over the last couple of months indicate that a lot of people are having troubles with getting to see a GP and whether this is because the GPs are hiding from the “deadly virus” or for other reasons, this is a valid area for discussion as is the whole deification of the NHS and the actual service we get from them. The same comments are being made about many teachers whose “dedication to the children” seems to have disappeared whilst they sunbathe in the back garden

44477 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to mjr, 11, #546 of 1906 🔗

Aren’t we in danger here of doing exactly what we are protesting about ie extracting unreliable data from a small sample and applying it to the whole population to reach unreliable conclusions? We’ve all had experiences of poor GPs, teachers, shop assistants etc but we can’t extrapolate that data to include every doctor, teacher or shop assistant, as I’m sure, like me, you’ve come across some very good ones too. Unfortunately, it’s the bad ones we remember most.
Peter, please take heart. Many people on here have been very grateful for your contributions and your comments, often among the most voted for, have been measured and balanced in criticising the NHS and your own colleagues.
Biker, your comments too have made me smile and I have admired your tenaciousness, but insulting your fellow sceptics isn’t the way to go. Sorry!

44778 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Margaret, #547 of 1906 🔗

Hear, hear Margaret. I have just had a phone call from my (female) GP, who I like, in relation to an unsatisfactory phone consultation I had yesterday with a ‘specialist.’ She was very sympathetic, given that she had referred me to said ‘specialist’. When I asked about visiting surgery wearing masks (which I don’t support) she said ‘You can always invoke the Dominic Cummings defence .i.e. it doesn’t apply to me.’ As I was scrabbling for a witty retort she added: ‘Well you’ve got to laugh haven’t you?’

44460 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Peter Thompson, -5, #548 of 1906 🔗

i doubt you’re a doctor no doubt you’re a liar

44463 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #549 of 1906 🔗

Can I have an appointment Pete?

45154 ▶▶▶ Marion, replying to Peter Thompson, #550 of 1906 🔗

Sweetheart? Oh dear. You really do help me to feel not quite so murderous about doctors, especially GPs….

44459 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Gillian, 1, #551 of 1906 🔗

Your last sentence says it all, are they moonlighting whilst being paid by the NHS as well.

44493 ▶▶ annie, replying to Gillian, 2, #552 of 1906 🔗

You should worry. Our medical centre doesn’t have a doctor. Not one.

44612 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to annie, #553 of 1906 🔗

Sooo, what does it have, to be called a medical centre?

44829 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, #554 of 1906 🔗

Bar steward!!

44443 Julian, replying to Julian, 10, #555 of 1906 🔗

This here is a rare piece of what seems like encouraging news from the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53330105

JK Rowling joins 150 public figures decrying ‘cancel culture’
There are some big names in there. One thing that caught my eye was towards the end of the piece:

“One signatory recanted within hours of the letter being published.
Jennifer Finney Boylan, a US author and transgender activist, tweeted: “I did not know who else had signed that letter.
“I thought I was endorsing a well-meaning, if vague, message against internet shaming.”
She added: “I am so sorry.””

So the logic is you sign something not because of whether or not you believe what it says, but depending on who else signs it. Or looked at another way, what you believe depends on whether someone else believes it and whether or not that person is considered “good” or “bad” by you or your group.

I suppose that’s the kind of thinking that leads you to be desperate to prove at all costs that a given medicine DOESN’T work, because it has been endorsed by someone of whom you disapprove. So it’s not just the death of rationality and logic in how you form your political opinions, but in how you view anything and everything, and therefore the death of science, which used to based on trying to draw conclusions from evidence.

Eventually this kind of madness may wipe itself out as they start to build bridges and aeroplanes that fall down or fall out of the sky, but force themselves not to notice this because they’ve been built by “good” people.

44453 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Julian, 2, #556 of 1906 🔗

It’s sheep mentality.

44474 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #557 of 1906 🔗

Think I’d call it ‘cybernet mentality’.

44694 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Julian, #558 of 1906 🔗

Haha that’s quite meta!

44446 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 8, #559 of 1906 🔗

In order to fit me with a facemask they will have to kill me first

44451 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cecil B, 6, #560 of 1906 🔗

Me too. When the government ministers and media personnel start wearing them I’ll take it seriously but until then they can take a hike!

Yesterday we went to Tescos and am happy to report very few face masks about, less autocratic employees, also less cashiers but a much more relaxed environment.

44456 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #561 of 1906 🔗

Sadly, AG, it’s here:

2.—(1) In these Regulations—

“face covering” means a covering of any type which covers a person’s nose and mouth;

Edit: Should have been reply to Awkward Git!

44469 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Cecil B, 3, #562 of 1906 🔗

Don’t worry the fascists that monitor this site will have your I.P dress and you’ll be on a list. Just like me.
Hi guys that are reading this for the deep state, hope you all have a lovely day now

44448 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #563 of 1906 🔗

I may be missing something but in The health protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport)(England) Regulations 2020 I know it says:

Requirement to wear a face covering when on public transport

3. —(1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, use a public transport service without wearing a face covering.

But nowhere can I see that it actually states it must be worn on the face.

Blindingly obvious I know but as we have to follow the letter and not the spirit of the law then this does need to be stated in my opinion.

From Merriam-Webster the definition of “to wear” is:

Definition of wear (Entry 1 of 3)
transitive verb
1
: to bear or have on the person
wore a coat

Maybe some interesting test cases coming up.

44462 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #564 of 1906 🔗

You could wear it around the neck like a lot of people or wear a scarf around the neck and if anyone complains just pull it up over the mouth.

44464 ▶▶ JASA, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #565 of 1906 🔗

While I agree that making us wear face coverings/masks is wrong for so many reasons, it does say in Part 1, section 2, Interpretation – ‘face covering’ means a covering of any type which covers a person’s nose and mouth.

44484 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JASA, 2, #566 of 1906 🔗

That is why I asked if I was missing something obvious.

The description could cover underpants – they can be worn on the head pulled down over the noise and mouth, it does not mean you have to use it this way.

The interpretation is there so that you know what is acceptable to use under the legislation, it is not an instruction on what to do with it – bandanas, surgical masks, ski masks, mosquito nets, handkerchiefs, skull masks, gimp masks, respirators, oxygen masks, paper taped on, scarves, knitted squares, lace doilies, home made items etc are all acceptable under the interpretation.

Nowhere does it actually state that the face covering has to be across the face or used as directed by the manufacturer.

44486 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #567 of 1906 🔗

The law says that, me and you, sitting at opposite ends of a bus, have to wear muzzles. But if four of us piled into a taxi, we would’t have to wear them!

Also, children under eleven years old are apparently immune to The Virus That Will Kill Everyone, but they can’t go to school, because virus.

And – if the bus company employs someone to check if we are wearing muzzles, that employee doesn’t have to wear one!

The laws are self-contradictory, unworkable and just crap.

44496 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #568 of 1906 🔗

Totally agree with your last sentence, it’s all bollocks and about fears nd control.

44500 ▶▶▶▶ JASA, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #569 of 1906 🔗

Okay, I see what you mean. As a hearing aid wearer with a severe hearing loss, I need the mouth of the speaker uncovered for sound volume and quality and to lip read. It people don’t remove their masks when talking to me, I ignore them. It is acknowledged in the act that people travelling with someone who needs to lip read don’t need to wear a face covering. In fact, there are so many exceptions, it proves how worthless face coverings are.

44528 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to JASA, 4, #570 of 1906 🔗

I also wear aids but can more or less manage without seeing lips. Not seeing a nice smile from a masked person though is what kills it for me. But the cords of the mask get tangled with the aids and it is impossible to remove them without my aids pulling out. Glasses steaming up is of course also an issue and depending on how the mask is fitted it can obscure the lower part of my varifocals. Both hearing loss and eyesight correction are classed as disabilities so if need comes to shove I could probably claim exemption for that.

44532 ▶▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #571 of 1906 🔗
44637 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to StevieH, #572 of 1906 🔗

Brilliant, good for her.

44759 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to StevieH, #573 of 1906 🔗

She had some bottle. Seems we’re muzzled all over the world. So the globalist agenda worked then.

44754 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Awkward Git, #574 of 1906 🔗

How about a supermarket carrier bag with two holes for the eyes? It might just hint that masks are ineffective.

44582 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #575 of 1906 🔗

Yes – a Lone Ranger mask would be my preferred face covering!

44457 Biker, replying to Biker, 5, #576 of 1906 🔗

Freedumb from the SNP
Freedumb from the SNP
Freedumb from the SNP
Freedumb from the SNP
Freedumb from the SNP
Freedumb from the SNP
Freedumb from the SNP
Freedumb from the SNP

44488 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 2, #577 of 1906 🔗

Go it Biker
Go it Biker
and so ad infinitum!

44751 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Biker, #578 of 1906 🔗

Hi Biker, don’t you work in a supermarket? What happens on Friday when face masks become mandatory? Were I in Scotland I’d team up with you but I ain’t though I loathe Strugeon from afar. But doesn’t muzzle law affect your job?

44873 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Bella, 1, #579 of 1906 🔗

they want us all to wear masks in the store but i’m telling them it cause’s me health issues and won’t be wearing it. I’ve offered to sit at home on full pay till the masks thing is over but i’ve not heard back yet. They don’t know what they are doing and are really pissed off at Sturgeon

44473 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 17, #580 of 1906 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/07/leicesters-coronavirus-infection-rate-drops-early-june-level/

Leicester’s coronavirus infection rate drops to early June level following regional lockdown
—–

What a load of bollox. The regional lock-up only went in last week, surely it’s far too soon to tell whether it’s had an effect or not. I wonder whether the government has backed off testing in Leicester now, to make it look as if cases are dropping. We know that 7 of Leicester’s 8 testing sites rather conveniently popped up in mid to late June. I love how the government are ‘cautious’ about the data when it suits them – i.e. whenever an easing of lockdown is announced, it is accompanied by reproachful messages that browbeat us into submission, but when a drop in cases can be manipulated to support the government propaganda narrative, then our elected politicians are all too quick to pat themselves on the back for ‘beating’ coronavirus.

—–

On a side note, another negative effect of lockdown. My parents own a very old but very beautiful house which predates the Victorian era. Beautiful it may be, but due to its age it requires regular and consistent maintenance. When they first bought the house around a decade ago now they couldn’t even live in it for six months because it was so run down and needed a total overhaul. During the old normal, my parents occupied this house probably for around half of each year and they also popped over from time to time to oversee said maintenance.

Due to the ludicrous restrictions on visiting second homes over lockdown (and the social media shaming that was directed at those who dared defy this arbitrary law), my parents were isolating at their primary residence, but now said restrictions have been lifted, they have returned to the old house and it has begun falling to pieces, now that they are living in it after four months of it lying empty. In the the space of two weeks they’ve had: faulty electrics and numerous power cuts; a broken oven; a broken fridge; a blocked toilet; the rot in the windows has considerably worsened (they were meant to get joiners in during the spring but this has obviously been delayed); a delayed decorator appointment means that the paint is cracking and peeling off said windows; a leaking roof; and numerous insect infestations. The house has been a hive of workmen for the last few days. My parents have always had a few problems with this house due to its age but never this much happening all at once.

I never agreed with the restriction on visiting second homes (not that I agreed with any lockdown restriction but this was one of the worst). They are called ‘homes’ for a reason, for a lot of people they spend a sizeable chunk of time in their second home, it’s not always just some holiday cottage they jolly in for two weeks of every year. Because my parents spend so much time in their second home, they contribute to the local economy and are part of the community in which said second home is based. They are not tourists and they would not be ‘bringing’ the disease over in their disgusting leper bodies. Furthermore, they drive over there in their isolated car, and no-one else lives in the home, so they’d be drastically minimising contact with anyone else in a risk-based and sensible approach.

The ban on visiting second homes was one of the worst examples of the arbitrariness of the lockdown restrictions, a totally unreasonable intrusion into citizens’ private affairs in order to appease the bed-wetting Karens on social media.

44491 ▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 9, #581 of 1906 🔗

Stay strong, Poppy, stay angry, and wait for the bollox to collapse, as it will.
God bless your parents. They have the best daughter possible.
I know it’s awful living in a crumbling sort of house – did it for a year. Chalk it up on the list of accusations. Our revenge will come.

44859 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Poppy, #582 of 1906 🔗

Wonderful post Poppy and I thought just the same right from the start. I have a small one bedroon cottage ‘second home’ and continued to go every single week from week 1 of lockdown. I am not rich and worked my backside off to buy it and I was dammed if I was going to have some dictating government telling me whether i could go there or not…I thought to hell with them. Otherwise the place would have been in rack and ruin now and the gardens totally our of control. I drove alone in my own car to be somewhere on my own. High risk my arse.

44475 Andy Anderson, #583 of 1906 🔗

You say you agree with the CDC estimate of just how dangerous Covid is, yet the latest figure for the Global death toll is less than that for seasonal flu – which the WHO says runs up to 650,000 a year.

44476 mjr, replying to mjr, 3, #584 of 1906 🔗

Not sure if this is picked up already
According to BBC WHO now looking at danger of airborne particles Clearly this is a game changer as it would mean that masks would be made mandatory indoors.

Talking of WHO, on Radio4 Today programme news headline was that “Trump has given notice that USA will leave WHO this year DESPITE soaring rates of covid… and 60,000 new infections….”
Given that as WHO is a Chinese puppet and has got everything wrong so far and the US are the largest contributor seems like a valid option. But what relevance have the BBC scaremongering figures got to do with it. Why the use of “despite”. What sort of professional journalism is this??

44479 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mjr, 12, #585 of 1906 🔗

If we had any sense we’d leave the WHO too. Unfortunately there is no one in this government with a brain or backbone.

44485 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #586 of 1906 🔗

most united nations agencies are politically and financially corrupt in one way or another .

44501 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #587 of 1906 🔗

If USA stops funding the WHO, the next biggest funder is Bill Gates, followed by the UK. (Well we would be, wouldn’t we being such a vast country.)

44844 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #588 of 1906 🔗

It means we can pay them to change their advice every three weeks or so.

45551 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #589 of 1906 🔗

Quite so.

44731 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #590 of 1906 🔗

Aren’t we their biggest funder aside from Gates? Isn’t that why they changed their advice on face masks, because the UK wanted them to?.

45553 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella, #591 of 1906 🔗

That was my conclusion.

44480 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mjr, 10, #592 of 1906 🔗

If it was airborne, it would get you in your house, your car or anywhere you go, unless you wore an actual gas mask. But would that fact convince the bedwetters? Sadly, we know the answer…

44483 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #593 of 1906 🔗

The government in 1939 had manufactured and issued gas masks to every man, woman and child in the country. I doubt our government in 2020 could execute such a huge operation. They would have to send to China for the masks.

44848 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, #594 of 1906 🔗

The gas masks weren’t effective against the gas. It was a big psy-op.

44482 ▶▶ matt, replying to mjr, 21, #595 of 1906 🔗

If the virus is airborne and you can actually catch it that way, then literally everybody who could possibly catch it, would have done so by now.

44524 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to matt, 2, #596 of 1906 🔗

And they pretty much have, in UK, at least.

44536 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 4, #597 of 1906 🔗

There you go! All the science you need matt!! :o))

44736 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to matt, 1, #598 of 1906 🔗

They said the same thing about AIDS in the 1980s. Wrong! And Covid has been doing the rounds for some months. Are they seriously suggesting we’ll believe it’s suddenly acquired wings and is about to fly? Jesus H Coronavorus.

44489 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to mjr, 16, #599 of 1906 🔗

If the virus is airborne, then masks are completely useless, since the suspended particles are way too small to be blocked by them.

44498 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to jrsm, 8, #600 of 1906 🔗

Agree. If that’s the case then people should be wearing those suits that virologists use in laboratories not useless muzzles or face coverings.

44504 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #601 of 1906 🔗

Don’t give the fuckers ideas !

44511 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #602 of 1906 🔗

I don’t think they’ll be able to afford it. Plus you need years of training to be able to use it properly.

44566 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #603 of 1906 🔗

Much too late even if that would ever have been relevant (thank heavens!).

44665 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #604 of 1906 🔗

Exactly! But don’t even think of suggesting that to the MSM 😉 !

44705 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #605 of 1906 🔗

Naw….I’ve boycotted them remember 😉

44499 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to mjr, 14, #606 of 1906 🔗

Professional journalism left the MSM building many years ago and can now only be found in alternative media.

44502 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to mjr, 6, #607 of 1906 🔗

They need a better threat than ‘covid19’ for it to be a ‘game changer’. Those of us who know it’s bollox won’t play along, and our numbers will increase.

44740 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to JohnB, #608 of 1906 🔗

Hope you’re right but I’m not confident.

44664 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, #609 of 1906 🔗

Sigh… so is the next move to open theatres and cinemas subject to mask-wearing – plus temp checks and ‘signing-in’ requirements??

44478 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 10, #610 of 1906 🔗

“81% of Care Home Residents Asymptomatic”

Well well well! That’s very interesting! I suspect the majority of us are also asymptomatic too which makes the Covid hysteria even more nonsensical.

44492 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #611 of 1906 🔗

It makes perfect sense. Scare the public into believing the Black Death is here. Now they introduce a number of authoritarian laws to curtail liberty, destroy small business and prepare us for the coming global collapse. They game is up. They know that the destruction of the planet to give us everything we could ever dream off has to stop and here it comes. They think doing it like this will keep us calm until the day they switch of the global economy when it will become a fight for survival resulting in the death of almost every human, leaving only about half a billion of us left. You won’t be one of them.
It’s all been planned and written about and even explained to us albeit through the so called alternative media in the form of pretend lunatics like Alex Jones, David Icke, rock music, hip hop, Hollywood, dope takers and countless other ways. They are government stooges who talk like they are speaking in tongues but are letting slip little details amongst the nonsense. This has been planned for since the 60’s when it became apparent that industrialisation had created too many people and all the chemicals we are pumping into the air were gonna kill the planet. I know a lot of people think the planet is fine and the global warming hoax is real but that’s just another cover to keep people calm and doing nothing. It don’t matter if you think it’s real or not they do and they are gonna shut down the planet for a while till there are only half a billion humans.
Or maybe nobody has a clue what is going on and they’re just idiotically doing the wrong thing all the time because of the laws of chaos if chaos can have laws that is.

44494 Awkward Git, 13, #612 of 1906 🔗

Just received from afriedn in melbourne:

Well we are surrounded by the military!
We are under Marshall law they don’t say that but …..it is
we have lost faith in our gov’t
I hope our class actions get enough traction!
Some Ozzies are standing up!
Also ausclc.org may be gathering strength.

Wishing all the best over there.

44503 matt, replying to matt, 14, #613 of 1906 🔗

I’m sure it will surprise nobody to hear that I have no science qualifications past GCSE, So I wonder if someone who does can help me understand something.

It strikes me that a lot of the official thinking and advice about this virus seems to be based on the principle of thinking of the worst case scenario and assuming it might be true until it’s conclusively proved that it isn’t:
– the virus might kill up to 10% of people who catch it
– the virus might be spread by people who are asymptomatic including children
– the virus might be airborne as well as being spread through droplets and surfaces
– it might be that nobody who hasn’t previously been infected is able to mount an effective immune response to the virus
– it might be that having previously been infected does not confer any kind of immunity

So what you end up with is a virus that _might_ be absolutely horrific in both its infectiousness and its deadliness. The fact that this doesn’t fit the growing evidence of what we can actually see happening in the real world seems to be irrelevant. And the fact that much of this doesn’t fit what’s previously been observed of all other viruses and the human immune response is also irrelevant.

Is this a standard approach? Is it usual to assume all things might be true, even when logically they can’t be? Because it seems pretty stupid to me, if so.

44518 ▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 5, #614 of 1906 🔗

And the sky might fall on our heads.
I should stick with GCSE if I were you. The further it goes, the worse it gets.

44519 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 9, #615 of 1906 🔗

It’s stupid and illogical, matt, because it is no longer one whit about a virus. It’s all about control/police state/power/etc/etc.

44520 ▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 4, #616 of 1906 🔗

It’s a case of weighing all the evidence taking into account the confidence level of each piece. This is a tricky business and it’s easy to end up committed to a particular point of view, only look for evidence that supports it and find more uncertainty than there really is in evidence that seems to point the other way. Both sides of the debate have to be careful not to do this.

The media and governments on the other hand don’t give a damn about any of this. The media just want to latch onto anything to scare people and governments just want to promote the image of their omnipotence and omniscience.

44522 ▶▶ davews, replying to matt, 6, #617 of 1906 🔗

Yes, all ‘might’ and nobody bold enough to say it hasn’t happened.
Just posted this on the railway forum I frequent where there seem to be a majority very pro lockdown and admittedly some who have experienced the disease in their families:

I find the comments on here rather saddening, those who ‘will never travel by train again’ especially so. It looks like the media driven project fear has been rather too effective, I would actually call it brain washing. With growing evidence that the vast majority of us have now had the virus in some form or other and not noticed it and with hospital admissions and deaths approaching zero it is fair to say the virus has almost gone away. But the media are still plugging the doom story and people are still believing every surface they touch and everybody they pass is bristling with the virus. Yes, for those who have caught it in a big way it is a nasty and potentially fatal bug but those remain a quite small percentage.
I have no fear of using the trains whatsoever, only being mandated to wear a silly bit of cloth over my face to keep some people quiet. Can we please just get back to life?
No doubt I will be banned for saying things like this but some days I could scream.

Already had some not very favourable responses as expected but if we don’t speak out we will never get the message across.

Just back from my local Tesco. They have removed all the one way signs inside and although there was a girl on the door it seemed they weren’t bothering to count people going in and out. Just the lines left at the checkouts including a place you are supposed to stand while packing your bags which is out of range of both your items and the paying machine. Sadly an increase in the number of people wearing gags which probably means some have been taken in by yesterday’s Royal Society announcement.

44527 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to davews, 12, #618 of 1906 🔗

Maybe all those wearing gags should be forced to use the same checkout, thus separating them from us “lepers”, leaving the rest of us to go through speedily on the remaining checkouts.

44544 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #619 of 1906 🔗

Gladly be separated. Good idea.

44561 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to davews, 2, #620 of 1906 🔗

I strayed onto a railway forum the other day which was much as you describe. Annoyingly, I can’t find my way back there. If you post a link, I would be more than happy to support your views. My OH and I belong to the local transport group. There are about 25 of us and only 1 other person appears to be even the slightest sceptical, the rest are brainwashed. All the emails we get from TOCs and rail user groups are similar.. And don’t get me started on the RMT union!!

Meanwhile I found this while searching for the forum. The ‘journalist’ thinks northern trains are doing well because of compulsory gags and anti-social distancing. The photos of empty carriages tell the real story but this woman is a stranger to irony:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newsliverpool/we-rode-northern-rail-after-face-masks-were-made-compulsory-and-this-is-what-we-saw/ar-BB16lw9V

44644 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #621 of 1906 🔗

https://www.wnxxforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=29353
Maybe the same one you found yourself at. Although there are some sceptics there they largely tow the official line. Been doing a few train trips lately and round here (SWR) it is one or two passengers per carriage, totally deserted.

44679 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to davews, #622 of 1906 🔗

Thanks, it isn’t the one I found (should have bookmarked it!) but Ill take a look anyway.

44864 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #623 of 1906 🔗

Hey, I signed up and left a comment – didn’t know it was so easy to invent an email address. Wonder if my comment will get bounced?

45549 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #624 of 1906 🔗

You’ve just reminded me to have a go! Thanks.

44529 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 12, #625 of 1906 🔗

“It seems pretty stupid to me.”

That tells me your BS detector is working just fine. Sometimes that’s the only science you need.

The best scientific tool, and one often overlooked, is Occam’s Razor. Occam’s suggests that when two explanations are offered, the simplest is usually correct. If we apply Occam’s razor to corona viruses:

1.There are seven corona viruses that affect humans (including the current one). All cause mild to moderate upper respiratory tract infections.

2.There are seven corona viruses that affect humans (including the current one). All cause mild to moderate upper respiratory tract infections, EXCEPT the most recent one. In some people it causes strokes. In others vascular disease. In still others it is responsible for heart disease and in some people organ failure. Somehow, this latest corona virus can somehow pick and choose which parts of the human system to attack.

Occam’s Razor would suggest 1. is the correct version.

44558 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #626 of 1906 🔗

As does most of the unfolding data!

44537 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 1, #627 of 1906 🔗

Generally a task can be process or results driven.

My take is that the response is now guided by a results driven agenda with the end goal being zero, or as near as possible, deaths. The only reason for this being other countries have ended up with low death counts.

The end result is now the only way they seem to be measuring success. Consider why British Columbia is regarded a success story despite having virtually the same approach as Sweden. There are many other comparisons we can make regarding process vs results to make the point, e.g. lockdown vs no lockdown countries.

All the things you mention that might happen are used as justification, or excuses, to focus only on the end result. Process doesn’t get a look in.

44554 ▶▶ IanE, replying to matt, 2, #628 of 1906 🔗

It all seems to be ‘justified’ nowadays by the precautionary approach (cf. global warming numpties). The thing is that there are an infinite number of possible dire scenarios one could raise as a potential threat, and trying to deal with many of these would cost enormous amounts of money. What happens is that particular ‘threats’ come to the fore (usually due to MSM panicky searches for ‘news’ stories), politicians climb on the bandwagon and, having started with crazy over-reactions, than accumulate theory-driven evidence [the opposite of science, of course] to justify increasingly insane responses.

44579 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 8, #629 of 1906 🔗

Matt, two degree-level natural scientists with PhDs in social science in my house – husband in complex statistically methods, including agent based simulation favoured by Ferguson et al and the climate change nutters. Even with empirical evidence and proper scientific methodology it would make little difference. The powers that be had already decided what they wanted, and it was presented as a fait accompli. If we had a proper Conservative government they would have stood up to the challenge, and brought in the proper ‘scientists’ to dismiss the narrative (as Sweden did).

44505 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 5, #630 of 1906 🔗

https://youtu.be/QqYMfgDd-n8

Protesting outside Garda station over refusal to investigate crimes in running state run nursing home.

44517 ▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 1, #631 of 1906 🔗

Wonderful. Go it.

44541 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #632 of 1906 🔗

Thank you. And shared.

44514 Biker, replying to Biker, 11, #633 of 1906 🔗

They Live and now you don’t need the glasses to see them. We can see their masks

44547 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Biker, #634 of 1906 🔗

So true – so many people’s brains have been taken over by pc-ism, wokeism, cancel culture etc, that it is just as if aliens are really taking over the Earth by stealth, destroying our wills, our health, our economy, our ability to even think. Mind you, Lefties have always seemed pretty alien to me!

44601 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, #635 of 1906 🔗

Any evidence this is not an alien takeover ?

44516 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 21, #636 of 1906 🔗

Eoh, the Royal Society now tells us that not wearing a mask should be “socially unacceptable”. is that so? It seems everything we do, say, eat and the way we live is socially unacceptable now. Well, I’ve always been a socially unacceptable person when I get started on hot topics and I shall be glad to stick two fingers up to the Royal Society and their like, AND tell them where to shove their masks. Whatever our ancestors would think of us now, I hate to imagine…terrified little jellies, running around with masks cos of a nasty bug, when there’s no real danger…the brave Brit is now a figure of yesteryear, it seems. We must, en masse, oppose any attempt to force us all into dog muzzles. What a stupid country we have become (sceptics aside).

44569 ▶▶ John P, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #637 of 1906 🔗

I’m not sure the bloke from the Royal Society is speaking for all members.

44591 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 1, #638 of 1906 🔗

If he were speaking personally, a disclaimer would be usual practice.

44597 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 4, #639 of 1906 🔗

(And he’s not a bloke, he’s a reptilian parasitic gobshite.). 🙂

44821 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 2, #640 of 1906 🔗

John, as a nervous old lady I appreciate the mildness of that description, but please feel free to use something stronger if you like.

44526 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #641 of 1906 🔗

SNP Justice minister appears to suggest English are a different race to Scots – or is it just me?

An update about the c19 Scottish English Not Welcome protests at the Border. It took Sturgeon two days to talk about the protests, I suspect a small holiday as reason. Anyway, SNP high ups consider English to be of a different race to Scots, as the border incident Southern Reporter article shows.

To call the anti-English demonstrators Nationalists wouldn’t be acceptable, and anti-English isn’t okay either, so they are called racists. They are not. From the article:

“Holyrood justice secretary Humza Yousaf had already slammed Saturday’s protest by nationalist sympathisers, in a layby alongside the A1 at the Scottish-English border north of Berwick, as “horrible, reprehensible and vile”, and Ms Sturgeon echoed that criticism at her daily coronavirus briefing in Edinburgh this afternoon”

[…]

“Mr Yousaf, MSP for Glasgow Pollok, had tweeted later on Saturday: “If you are a racist, you are no friend of mine and no part of the movement I belong to.

““Luckily these morons don’t represent the Scotland I know and love.””

https://www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-joins-criticism-anti-english-protest-borders-2905447#gsc.tab=0

Related.
Devi Sirdah, ‘scientist’ and lead on the Scottish public health response to c19 recently apologised for accusing half of Scots anti English. How a scientist gets themselves neck deep in political comment is a study waiting to happen for after the crisis.

44534 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #642 of 1906 🔗

Southern Reporter reports similar protests planned for this weekend. Critics have suggested Sturgeon’s ‘leadership’ around the cross border c19 situation, and a lack of clarity about Scot Gov’s position on cross border travel, has resulted in the atmosphere of the protesters.

44568 ▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, #643 of 1906 🔗

“SNP Justice minister appears to suggest English are a different race to Scots – or is it just me?”

Yes, I think it’s just you. Many Scots are of Irish descent anyway. I know my mother is.

44608 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, #644 of 1906 🔗

Thanks John for straightening that out.

In the article Yousaf says of the matter – “If you are a racist, you are no friend of mine and no part of the movement I belong to.”

I read that he thinks the border protests are racist in origin. I say they are nationalist, I certainly don’t see the border c19 protest as being about race.

44870 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, #645 of 1906 🔗

I wonder how Yousaf feels if i tell him i find his “religion” abhorrent and a real threat to civilisation and agree with every word Christopher Hitches said on the matter including such pearls of wisdom as teaching it to children is child abuse. Yousaf can kiss my scrotum if he ever thinks i’ll ever not think all region is evil including his delusional pish.

44878 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #646 of 1906 🔗

It’s tribalism!

44877 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #647 of 1906 🔗

Devi Sridhar would be a lot more intelligent if she stopped at the neck!

44530 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #648 of 1906 🔗

Another large chain in trouble. While I sympathise with those losing their jobs its the company itself that’s signing its own death warrant:

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1280759146476965888

44589 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #649 of 1906 🔗

Shops that sell tea/coffee yet do not do normal (blue top) milk deserve all they get.

Although their crayfish butties are nice.

44606 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #650 of 1906 🔗

My husband likes them too. And they do a good ham & cheese croissant.

44673 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #651 of 1906 🔗

COVID is being blamed rather than Lockdown……..

44708 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluemoon, 1, #652 of 1906 🔗

Yep…still the same shite perpetuated by the MSM

44531 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 9, #653 of 1906 🔗

It’s all kicking off outside my shop. The Highways blokes are putting in speed restriction signs and chicanes so there’s now gridlock on the road (great for pollution levels, eh?).

Just had a laugh with the young bloke putting up the signs who says it’s all a load of bollocks and that the council have a load of extra budget to use up. He says he usually covers Suffolk but they are doing this across the whole of Essex. Presume this will be happening countrywide.

44535 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 10, #654 of 1906 🔗

Oh dear, they really haven’t thought this through. The road I refer to is the main access route for the fire service. They’ve only gone and put a chicane where cars usually pull over for a fire engine to go past. God, these people couldn’t organise the proverbial …

44565 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to kh1485, #655 of 1906 🔗

What have they done that for? Has this anything to do with the virus?

44567 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to John P, 3, #656 of 1906 🔗

Well, bearing in mind all the signs have ‘COVID-19’ plastered all over them, I suspect it is!

44602 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to kh1485, #657 of 1906 🔗

Fine, but I’m still not clear on what imposing traffic restrictions is supposed to do?

44604 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to John P, 2, #658 of 1906 🔗

Hell, I don’t bloody know, why don’t you ask the Highways people?. I was only pointing out the absurdity of it. I *presume* it is to aid social ruddy distancing as in widening the pavements. Jeez …wish I hadn’t posted the damn comment now.

44609 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to kh1485, 1, #659 of 1906 🔗

I wasn’t having a go at you, just asking a question 🙂

44620 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to John P, 4, #660 of 1906 🔗

Forgive me John but after your comment about me “hiding” behind my moniker on here the other day (which I do purely to protect my business), you can’t blame me for thinking that you were having a go now …

44622 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to kh1485, #661 of 1906 🔗

I wasn’t having a go at you then either.

I was responding to (I think) bella who was suggesting that Peter Hitchens and Mike Graham getting your sex wrong was evidence of “patriarchy”.

Let me be clear. We are all “strangers” here. I suggest (and it’s only a suggestion) that we try to resist the temptation to take other commenters too personally.

I don’t bear grudges, there is absolutely no point.

44649 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to John P, 4, #662 of 1906 🔗

It wasn’t Peter Hitchens who got kh’s gender wrong it was Mike Graham and having only come across him since this nonsense – on YouTube interviewing Hitchens – I would suggest he is a walking, talking patriarch. BTW I’m also posting under a pseudonym because when I posted under my real name for the first month or so I got quite a lot of abuse in other channels.

44888 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 2, #663 of 1906 🔗

It’s to enable people to socially distance, so they’re not leaping off pavements and landing under buses. 1m? – Go figure!

A couple of weeks ago, my local council newsletter announced some dodgy-looking measures they were going to undertake in the town centre to make us feel “safe”, including making things easier for cyclists.

I live on the edge of the Peak District. We have very steep hills and several deep valleys. We do have our share of intrepid cyclists but no-one in their right mind would leisure shop by pushbike round here!

Methinks they’ve been bunged some govt grant money to further ruin our town centres.

44539 ▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 4, #664 of 1906 🔗

Edinburgh is doing identically the same.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/latest-plans-aid-social-distancing-around-edinburgh-revealed-2906930

Long been a part of their plans. C19 used to push through. General game is to choke car use, to get active travelling jump started. Must be done in Summer because by a dark December gale of a morning people may be reluctant adopt.

44891 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #665 of 1906 🔗

Winter ghost towns imminent – though they’ll be lucky to last that long at this rate!

44542 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 2, #666 of 1906 🔗

Yes – this ‘must spend our budget’ thing is and has, for a long time, been a terrible drag on our productivity. Even in industry, where you would expect much tighter controls, each department does the same with its annual budgets!

44572 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to kh1485, 2, #667 of 1906 🔗

It happened in Hertfordshire several weeks ago!

44600 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to kh1485, 6, #668 of 1906 🔗

The county council are doing similar in all the little towns round here. In the little town closest to me (population 2800) they tried two way temporary traffic lights along the high street so they could widen the pavements to allow people/shoppers to keep 2 metres apart but as the high street is also a major connecting road it caused huge tail backs both ways.

So the lights were removed and everything back to normal however the county council feel they have to do something so they are installing a one way system through town, which was initially proposed last year to reduce traffic on the high street, and was roundly and utterly rejected by the town council and every single resident as being unworkable.

Part of the proposed one way system takes traffic round the tiny, twisty medieval back streets, where residents live and park their cars, with sharp bends and very narrow sections. Some of the traffic that goes up and down the high street now are large forestry wagons and supersized tractors and trailers. The original objections were that it would be impossible for those size vehicles to negotiate the back streets in the one way system without getting stuck and causing gridlock.

Despite all the original objections still being valid the county council say they have no choice as the pavements on the high street must be wide enough for shoppers to stay 2 metres apart, especially when there will be people queuing outside shops. Lets just say that the number of people shopping in this little town would never result in crowds or queues. It’s not a tourist hotspot, it doesn’t even have that many shops. And with this one way system causing traffic chaos people will simply avoid the town altogether 🙁

44611 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to The Spingler, #669 of 1906 🔗

That’s exactly what will happen here and our town lay-out is the same as yours.

44661 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to The Spingler, 1, #670 of 1906 🔗

Designed to get people to stop using their cars, ie part of the zero carbon policy?

44894 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #672 of 1906 🔗

All very well for the young and fit!

44856 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to kh1485, 1, #673 of 1906 🔗

Epping,Essex has had a number of parking spaces removed and the speed limit reduced to 20 as Covid seems to be deadlier at 30

44882 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #674 of 1906 🔗

Same thing here with the speed limit – not sure why. Perhaps to prevent the pavement swervers being squished when they veer off into the road!

45030 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to kh1485, 1, #675 of 1906 🔗

They should rather fix the potholes – all of them not just the ones that they mark with yellow paint.

45060 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Victoria, #676 of 1906 🔗

I agree. Sick of having to fork out to get my car repaired after hitting yet another one!

44533 eaglecherry, 1, #677 of 1906 🔗

Sigh. It’s way way way worse than you all know. None of you question the virus’s existence. What’s that you say?? Then again you all believe in the HIV demon wreaking havoc across Africa and among gay men, even though HIV does not exist, and plenty of med scientists have been saying this for decades, from around the world. But censorship, so why the censorship? Here for the facts on HIV – http://www.virusmyth.org/aids/index.htm .
None of which are acknowledged by the authorities and ‘experts’ dismissing the sceptics, mislabeled AIDS deniers (AIDS dissidents include virologists, biophysicists, geneticists, immunologists, pathologists, from USA, Canada, UK, Europe, India, Latin America etc.). And guess what many of them think about COVID-19? AIDS dissidents include Nobel Laureates Walter Gilbert and the late Kary Mullis and one of the fathers of retrovirology, Peter Duesberg at Berkeley. What did Mullis invent again? What’s being used to test for the corona uh virus again? What would Mullis have to say about it if he was alive (he died last year)? Oh wait, let’s ignore all that.

And I haven’t even gotten onto polio (one of the biggest scandals and coverups in the history of science – if word got out the whole agrichemical industry would collapse, never mind the ramifications to virology), SARS, MERS, zika, Bird Flu… There is no evidence that viruses cause flu. Not now. Not ever.

Hope this comment isn’t deleted. Don’t care for whatever knee-jerk ad hominems may come my way, I can take it, I’m thick-skinned, but you people have no idea how bad to the bone virology is. It is quite simply the biggest scandal in the history of science. Nothing else comes close. Nothing. And the censorship is universal (and way too few scientists know what is going on as well. Very very very few. Thanks to total censorship!). Well of course.

Somebody let me out of the mad house.

44545 Ten, replying to Ten, 37, #678 of 1906 🔗

Our business is designing a facts leaflet to dispel the myths about C19 to help people understand the situation and then judge for themselves if we are over reacting to the virus. The facts will include 90% of people that have died from C19 have been over the age of 65 and people under the age of 16 are more likely to be hit by lightening.

The reason we are doing this is because the argument has been polarised. When I’ve spoke with people the conversation seems to always end with them saying people are dying. I even had one person say that I’m the type of person that causes the virus to spread.This black or white mentally is difficult to deconstruct and exhausting in one conversation.

With a fact sheet that lays out the main points without getting dragged into the emotional shaming that the ‘safers’ seem to always direct the conversation, would be a good tool to produce to explain the main points. If we had one for the group that we could all agree on then this could be even more powerful to breakdown the resistance we are facing.

Perhaps Toby could make a page on the side with the facts supporting our cause or design a group leaflet with a consistent message for us all to access. Big shout to Toby and creating a space for like minded people to stay sane.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned previously.

44548 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ten, 3, #679 of 1906 🔗

That’s a great idea.

44549 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ten, 2, #680 of 1906 🔗

Seconded!

44550 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Ten, 12, #681 of 1906 🔗

I would avoid saying over 90% of those dying are X or Y, if I were you. As soon as you start down that route you’ll be accused of not caring about people in the X or Y group – which is obviously not true.

If doing a facts leaflet to dispel the horrors, focus on the positives instead of the negative numbers, but be 100% certain whatever is on there is indeed factually correct, give some relatable comparisons:

  • X number of jobs have been lost since lockdown began
  • Y children have suffered 4 months missed education
  • Z % increase in child abuse in this time
  • Just Y people under age of 20 have died _with_ covid-19 in the uk
  • In the same time, Z number of people under 20 have died of A/B/C
  • 0.05% of population currently have covid-19 (check figue), to enforce 100% of people to wear masks would cause huge social and environmental damage.

etc

A great idea though, a shame no one on here is able to knock up one of those fancy info-graphics to help illustrate the complete lack of proportion in government responses.

44760 ▶▶▶ Ian, replying to Mark II, 1, #682 of 1906 🔗

With an IFR of .26% (CDC) doesn’t that mean that 99.74% of people that are unfortunate enough to get it, recover?

44556 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ten, 3, #683 of 1906 🔗

A good idea Ten.

Might be useful to include a small diagram countering the R infection pyramid. A pyramid showing statistical likelihood to first contract, then feel unwell, need treatment, need medical care, require hospital. etc.

44559 ▶▶ John P, replying to Ten, 4, #684 of 1906 🔗

One of the central problems is that most people have family members over the age of 65.

Much of this is being driven by younger people “protecting” their parents and grandparents.

44573 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to John P, 9, #685 of 1906 🔗

Prehaps it might need to also explain that the best way to protect the vulnerable is for the healthy to have had the disease and be immune and no longer able to carry it or spread it – if thats true

44660 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 3, #686 of 1906 🔗

But unless you live with your grandparents, then surely you can protect them by minimising physical contact with them? In Sweden the elderly that have died have been those in care homes, not the elderly living in their own homes…

44560 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Ten, 4, #687 of 1906 🔗

I don’t see any problem laying out which age groups are most vulnerable. Perhaps include a simple graphic showing the distribution of deaths by age group. The fact that the risk is skewed to retirement-age people with pre-existing conditions is in my opinion an essential part of the message. You can surely convey that without causing offence.

44562 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sally, #688 of 1906 🔗

Age is more of an issue than you seem to recognise.

As I have just said, much of this is being driven by younger people “protecting” their parents and grandparents.

44578 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 3, #689 of 1906 🔗

If mine mention such bollox to me, they’ll get a slap …

44592 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, -2, #690 of 1906 🔗

That’s fine John, but is your attitude typical of people in this age demographic?

44593 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 3, #691 of 1906 🔗

Dunno John, Do what you can, influence those you can, eh ?

44596 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, #692 of 1906 🔗

Well, indeed.

44809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 1, #693 of 1906 🔗

It certainly isn’t unique.

44575 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Sally, 8, #694 of 1906 🔗

It’s absolutely essential people also get the message about having pre existing conditions. So many elderly are on a mass of medications as well as being overweight; diabetes type 2; heart failure; cardiac problems ; blood pressure control; statins; aspirin – When you reach 60+ it seems to be ‘expected’ that you will be ‘on medication’. That’s for a ‘condition’. So perhaps this virus has shown us all how unhealthy we all are and we are on borrowed time thanks to medics/pharma miracles. Personally I’m fighting all the way not to be medicated! But know that age is out there waiting to catch up

44584 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Keen Cook, 8, #695 of 1906 🔗

Age per se is not a problem. One can remain healthy into one’s 90s by eating properly, sleeping properly, exercising, and being positive.

44587 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnB, 2, #696 of 1906 🔗

And, of course, having fortunate genes – not that one can influence the latter!

44595 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to IanE, 1, #697 of 1906 🔗

… and avoiding large motor vehicles while crossing the road.

44810 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 1, #698 of 1906 🔗

… but don’t dare press the Pelican crossing button, it has Covid on it!

44659 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to IanE, 2, #699 of 1906 🔗

First rule of health: choose your parents wisely 😉 !!!

44614 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to JohnB, 5, #700 of 1906 🔗

My parents are in their mid-late 70s, healthy and active, and neither take any pharma products – their GP has suggested vit D during the winter months.
They aren’t too worried about the bug – like most they think they’ve had it

44581 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ten, 2, #701 of 1906 🔗

Very good idea. Maybe one for ‘the virus’, one for masks, one for civil liberties ?

44598 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ten, 14, #702 of 1906 🔗

I can see the point of trying to give people good information which counteracts the propaganda. Unfortunately, most people are now so wedded to the ‘narrative’ that they will take little or no notice of anything produced by an ‘unofficial’ source.

Also, I think it may be a mistake to get bogged down in who is ‘in danger’ and most-affected age groups etc. All of this may have been useful when the virus was apparently spreading widely. However, now it is not and it is effectively over; this is the most important message especially as the propaganda is relentlessly fear-mongering.

A much more useful message, if it’s accepted, could be that nobody is in any real danger any more. Going back to normal for everyone who is healthy is the best way to build on already acquired herd immunity. The only people who might need to social-distance now are the very elderly and/or those with serious health conditions. They, along with everyone else, should get as much fresh air and sunshine as they possibly can while it’s (allegedly) summer! Oh, and some information on the downside of masks might help, too.

If you offer much else, it risks adding to the confusion. Young people who want to protect Grandma might want to, er, ask Grandma whether that’s what she wants – if they can find her at home, that is.

Signed, A Grandma 🙂

44658 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 11, #703 of 1906 🔗

This is why I suggested the other day that we should gently, in a non-confrontational way, point out some of the illogicalities that make a mockery of the rules – eg are BBC employees and the police super-immune to the virus, since the BBC are specifically exempted from having to observe lockdown in the coronavirus legislation, and police never observe social distancing … How come 30 people of various ages meeting in your home is safe, but 30 children in a classroom is not? How come schools have been open in Sweden all year, and not a single child has died of the virus? How come supermarket employees have not been dropping like flies, given how many people they meet and products they touch very day, and that for the most part (and especially at the beginning of the ‘pandemic’) had no PPE? Why can you safely sit for hours on a train wearing a mask, but theatres and churches are still closed? And so on…

44680 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 1, #704 of 1906 🔗

Good points, Carrie!

45849 ▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Carrie, #705 of 1906 🔗

Really, by now after all we have seen and been through let’s say, from 9-11 onwards, if they can’t figure it out, just leave them to their fate and get on the best we can. Gotta lead by example with a steely determination.

44619 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Ten, 3, #706 of 1906 🔗

Great idea – maybe a fact based advert for LS in all the big papers – I’d be happy to chip in for that campaign. Educate the bed wetters….

44709 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Major Panic, 1, #707 of 1906 🔗

me too

44812 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Major Panic, #708 of 1906 🔗

I’d chip in too. Can’t think of a better use for the money.

44627 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Ten, 2, #709 of 1906 🔗

Hi, I think that’s a great idea Ten, although keeping facts accurately up-to-date, and relevant for the target audience will be a challenge, but I’d happily support you!

For example, I actually have a cheat-sheet (do others?) containing succinct Covid-19 myth-busting facts and figures which I brush up on every time I Zoom with friends and colleagues. It does contain age-based demographics and such, but I don’t believe in suppressing data based on audience comfort and context which could be:

Friends in the 30s/40s worried about their kids or themselves dying.

Second-wave hysterics.

Outrage over recent UK large gatherings.

Panic over rising infection rates in the U.S.

etc …

As mentioned, I’d happily support a fact sheet myself and would love to contribute, as it’s a difficult but worthwhile task, in my humble opinion.

Cheers

44979 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to HaylingDave, #710 of 1906 🔗

I’ve tweeted the latest breakdown by age from the ONS. Might be of some use

https://twitter.com/dominic_j_wise/status/1280898481394192465?s=19

44634 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ten, 2, #711 of 1906 🔗

I was thinking of doing something similar on 1 page that I could and out or leave lying round when out and about but thought better of it a those in the know already are knowledgable and don’t need it and the rest are just chickens with there heads cut off running round and sheeple scared of living and brainwashed.

If/when I start frequenting the pub again I may print up something and quietly leave it on tables when leaving.

44636 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ten, 6, #712 of 1906 🔗

A laudable idea. Unfortunately, Miriam’s first para nails it. Any good, proven, sceptical info is trounced by “No, no, no! MSM says we’re all going to die”.

Maybe everyday, visible evidence would help? My favourite barometer is supermarket workers – why aren’t they keeling over?

And the sheer stupidity and self-contradiction of the laws: masks for bus passengers but not for staff; stay six feet apart in the pub, but it’s ok to have 30 people round to your house; and on and on…

44758 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #713 of 1906 🔗

I don’t disagree. One function of a campaign is to catch attention of those already aware but isolated in their view.

44646 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ten, 1, #714 of 1906 🔗

The overview of facts here: https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/ might be good to include a link to, or you could include some of the facts from the list..

45045 ▶▶▶ Ten, replying to Carrie, #715 of 1906 🔗

This link has been very useful thank you.

44663 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Ten, 3, #716 of 1906 🔗

I think the earliest information people read feels as if it is factual, and then it’s very hard to shift. You need to show why that information was put out in the first place – scare stories to make us conform to the lockdown, perhaps just to sell newspapers (any other reasons?). Then that information doesn’t seem quite so factual after all and people may be more ready to consider new information.

44808 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ten, 1, #717 of 1906 🔗

Can I have a copy to photocopy, print, and distribute?

44577 Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 4, #718 of 1906 🔗

Never mind the experience of going to the pub not being the same, neither is going to charity shops, which is one of the things I have missed greatly during lockdown, as I get lots of my clothes and our household stuff from them, and I also sometimes buy and sell something and make a massive profit….. Whenever I went food shopping in the past I would often trail round all of our 6 or 7 charity shops as well. Other people clearly did the same. One shop allows only 2 customers at once and you have to use hand sanitizer on entry, so I haven’t been in there. I loathe the stuff and refuse to use it if possible. Most people don’t use it properly anyway. Another shop allows 6 but it’s a one way system which is useless. My favourite one, which is basically a big shed, has yet to open.

45001 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #719 of 1906 🔗

Went to 2 local charity shops yesterday and politely declined to use the hand sanitizer, they then said that it was only a recommendation.

44585 John P, replying to John P, 12, #720 of 1906 🔗

I think it’s notable that the MSM have been very recently featuring stories from people suggesting that muzzle wearing should be compulsory.

I note in particular comments from someone in the “Royal Society” that I have never heard of and Tom Hanks being pushed.

It’s more MSM shenanigans. This is clearly an agenda that has been discussed behind the scenes and is now being pushed.

Establishment figures (whether in the military, government or civil service) clearly want this to be fed to the sheeple now that restrictions on movement are being lifted and people are relaxing a little, and their willing hacks are following orders.

I suppose the chap from the Royal Society is regarded as being appealing to the intellectual types, Hanks is going to appeal more to the man and woman on the street.

I find it a little irritating that journalists like Toby and Peter Hitchens aren’t doing more to call out this blatant propagandising by their industry, but I suppose they need to keep in with them to some extent.

44615 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 9, #721 of 1906 🔗

To be fair to Peter Hitchens, his MOS columns have featured the issue of muzzles, and his Twitter feed has been a constant barrage of anti-muzzle links and replies. I suppose he doesn’t often directly attack fellow newspaper journalists or their newspapers, but he’s been pretty scathing about the BBC. I’d rather he kept his job at the MOS, even if that means he’s a tiny bit constrained in what he can say.

44617 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, #722 of 1906 🔗

I was just being a bit waspish Julian … I still haven’t forgiven Toby for making light of Leicester’s predicament yesterday … 🙂

44647 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, #723 of 1906 🔗

Fair dos 🙂

44642 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 9, #724 of 1906 🔗

Even ‘Call me Dave’s’ wife is getting in on the act!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/style/time-match-mask-dress-say-samantha-cameron-isabel-spearman/

I know I am now officially living in a parallel universe!

44651 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #725 of 1906 🔗

Isn’t she a Rothschild ?

44674 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, #726 of 1906 🔗

Her mother remarried into the Astor clan. Her sister is the new editor of the Evening Standard.

44675 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to JohnB, #727 of 1906 🔗

No i dont think so family own a lot of land – scunthrope area iirc

44701 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #728 of 1906 🔗

Apparently the ‘initiative is to bring a smile to both the wearer and anyone who sees her’. How Can They Tell!

44792 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Suitejb, #729 of 1906 🔗

The only ones with a smile on their face are the snake oil salesmen selling them!

45247 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to John P, 1, #730 of 1906 🔗

Tom Hanks says he has no respect for people that don’t wear masks. He was of course saying this in an interview sans mask.

I am also going to stick my neck out and presume that he’s not been wearing a mask during flu season for as long as he’s been alive. No sign of remorse for the countless flu deaths he may be linked to in all that time.

44922 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to smileymiley, #732 of 1906 🔗

Here’s the most telling comment:
All over the world, we are being lied to.

Surely no-one can believe it’s all due to incompetence?!

44607 Awkward Git, 21, #733 of 1906 🔗

A friend of mine received this letter from one of his larger independent suppliers/manufacturers:

“I communicate with great regret to advise you the XXXXXXX was put into administration 1.00pm Friday July 3rd and the administrators dismissed all staff.
Fortunately 25 have volunteered to complete orders in progress which they are now working on. Unfortunately we are unable to accept any further new orders.
Any orders in progress we hope to complete by next week. There may be a few orders for which we have been unable to source components but these will come back to you over the next 5 days.
I am sorry to inflict this difficulty on your team but we have been shocked by the total lack of
financial support from anywhere.
Thanks for your long support of XXXXXXXX”

I’ve also been chatting with a local businessman who has 4 premises around the area and between them has got about £500 000 in loans, grants for his various businesses from the Government but as there is still not enough income to cover costs he cannot pay anything back as he’s run out of cash so the day repayments start is the day is the day he officially closes everything down and declares bankruptcy and no a penny will be paid off.

How is that assistance for the economy working out Rishi and Boris?

44610 RDawg, replying to RDawg, #734 of 1906 🔗

UPDATE:

We rejected your petition “Ban the Compulsory Wearing of Face Coverings (or Masks) on Public Transport”

Dear Ryan Karter,

Sorry, we can’t accept your petition – “Ban the Compulsory Wearing of Face Coverings (or Masks) on Public Transport”.

There’s already a petition about this issue. We cannot accept a new petition when we already have one about a very similar issue.

You are more likely to get action on this issue if you sign and share a single petition.

You may wish to sign this petition calling for the same action: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/325079 You can find out more about coronavirus and how you can protect yourself and others here: http://www.gov.uk/coronavirus https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/ The Government has also created an online service to help you find out what you can do if you’re struggling because of coronavirus: https://www.gov.uk/find-coronavirus-support You can read NHS tips to help if you are worried about coronavirus here: https://www.nhs.uk/oneyou/every-mind-matters/coronavirus-covid-19-anxiety-tips You can read impartial analysis of the Government response to coronavirus and policy developments here: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/coronavirus/ You may also be interested to know that because of the large number of petitions that have been started in relation to coronavirus, the Petitions Committee has been questioning the Government about its response to the coronavirus outbreak. Find out more: https://committees.parliament.uk/work/192/the-governments-response-to-coronavirus/

Click this link to see your rejected petition:
View your rejected petition

We only reject petitions that don’t meet the petition standards:
https://petition.parliament.uk/help#standards

If you want to try again, click here to start a petition:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/check

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

44807 ▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 6, #735 of 1906 🔗

I’ll sign any petition against any muzzling anywhere.
Took dog to vet for booster injection yesterday. Lots of dogs, barefaced. Five vets, muzzled.

44613 Ian, replying to Ian, 8, #736 of 1906 🔗

Here we go. Another previously unknown side affect. Constant drip drip of horror stories. This must be making people even more worried and fearful.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms

44621 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Ian, 7, #737 of 1906 🔗

Jeses wept. I despair, I really do. The list of ‘symptoms’ keeps getting longer.

44623 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ian, 1, #738 of 1906 🔗

Russia today is also stoking the fire:

https://www.rt.com/news/494107-covid19-serious-brain-disorders/

But further down the article, it suggests that the study tested people with previous neurological conditions and, guess what, they were positive, but asymptomatic, for CV19:

The study looked at 43 UK Covid-19 patients aged 16 to 85, many of whom did not experience any of the respiratory symptoms typically associated with the disease, instead presenting neurological disorders as their primary symptoms.

Of the 43, a dozen patients had inflamed central nervous systems, 10 had brain disease with delirium or psychosis, eight had strokes, and a further eight had peripheral nerve damage in the form of Guillain-Barré syndrome, in which the immune system attacks the nerves causing paralysis.

44624 ▶▶ John P, replying to Ian, #739 of 1906 🔗

That is why I don’t read that shit.

Ian, thank you, but I don’t need to know this.

44625 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, -2, #740 of 1906 🔗

Even if you are criticising it, you are still spreading it by putting it here.

44629 ▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to John P, 5, #741 of 1906 🔗

True, but only to people who can see it for the grade A bullshit that it really is.

44630 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Adam, -5, #742 of 1906 🔗

This website is open to anyone, not just lockdown sceptics.

44641 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to John P, 17, #743 of 1906 🔗

Well then by that argument, no one should post anything on here, just on the off chance a lockdown zealot happens upon this site and reads it, then runs off under their bed to wet themselves. At least if they read stuff on here, it’s accompanied with a good dose of scepticism and critical analysis that might just rub off on a lockdown zealot, unlike if they read the said article in The Guardian.

44639 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ian, 5, #744 of 1906 🔗

Great backstory for anyone in a position of power who might have lost their marbles and destroyed their country in the process though!

44643 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Ian, 4, #745 of 1906 🔗

Well it is a well-attested fact that most/all covysterics have serious-brain-disorders; just not acknowledged by the GroanAid!

44645 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Ian, 2, #746 of 1906 🔗

Isn’t Johnson a walking example of the veracity of this?

44787 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bella, 1, #747 of 1906 🔗

He was like that before.

44656 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ian, 2, #748 of 1906 🔗

As usual no context in the reporting of the numbers. Are these 40 patients (a relatively low number in itself) an abnormal increase for such conditions? Is it possible that they were conditions that would have arisen anyway but they just happened to have SARS-COV-2?

We also know that flu also causes long term conditions (nothing attributed to COVID-19 is particularly new or unusual as far as I can tell). How does the above compare to conditions caused by flu?

Fairly basic questions I would have thought.

44703 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Ian, 1, #749 of 1906 🔗

Umm interesting, Id attributed the mass stupidity to over use of mobile phones affecting the brain.

44926 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ian, #750 of 1906 🔗

…. when you’ve got such a big pandemic affecting such a vast proportion of the population ….

Please get a grip on the truth!

44931 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #751 of 1906 🔗

..

45076 ▶▶ Anonymous, replying to Ian, 1, #752 of 1906 🔗

If only the media exhibited that type of zeal for publicizing the health problems caused by lockdowns/media panic:

1.) Child abuse
2.) Drug abuse
3.) Alcohol abuse
4.) Suicide
5.) Domestic violence
6.) Depression
7.) Anxiety
8.) Heart attack victims avoiding treatment
9.) Stroke victims avoiding treatment
10.) Cancer victims not being screened or treated
11.) Potential for mass starvation in the developing world
12.) Children missing routine vaccinations

Etc.

If the media were to spend more time publicizing the health problems caused by lockdowns, it would give people a more balanced picture of what is happening. But the media has been trying to rewrite the history of this pandemic and the lockdowns. We can’t let them get away with that. The media’s terrorism is literally killing people, as in the case of heart attack victims avoiding hospitals out of fear of COVID-19. We need to expose these reporters and journalists for the simple-minded, irrational frauds they are. They really are an enemy of humanity, deserving of vehement condemnation.

44616 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 6, #753 of 1906 🔗

Some good news at least:

https://www.rt.com/news/494101-serbia-belgrade-lockdown-protest/

The bbc have reported it too, but apparently it is all the fault of far right nationalists protesting about the dangers of 5g internet.

44626 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Old Bill, 1, #754 of 1906 🔗

His style is pretty tough-going and dense and his views may not suit everyone but PW Laurie is very good on the 5G and far-right ‘straw man’ aspect of all this (plus a lot more):

http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/06/the-77th-brigade-must-go-to-jail-part-one/

Maybe it should be ‘batted away’. But then again. . .

44687 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #755 of 1906 🔗

Good stuff, but hind legs / donkeys ain’t in it. 🙂

44929 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, #756 of 1906 🔗

I did warn you 🙂

44650 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Old Bill, 3, #757 of 1906 🔗

In a non-democracy when people protest the democratic countries rally round to “free” the people. Who is there to “free” the people in a democracy?

44794 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #758 of 1906 🔗

Quis custodiet…?

First, the people need to realise that they are slaves. Work on that.

44795 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to annie, 2, #759 of 1906 🔗

I’m Spartacus!

Think I might actually get this printed on a facemask which would be worn on my chin.

44618 JYC, replying to JYC, 11, #760 of 1906 🔗

I played tennis last night, in Scotland. After our game, my friend and I shook hands, in public. Every little helps.

44793 ▶▶ annie, replying to JYC, 3, #761 of 1906 🔗

You’re right.
Be natural. It kills Coronapanic.
And always raise the subject with shop owners, etc., who are plainly being forced to go with the bollox but don’t believe a word of it. In my experience, it applies to practically all of them. Tell them that they don’t need to pretend with you.

44826 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 4, #762 of 1906 🔗

Just had a customer ask me if we were allowed to have newspapers … Oh boy, these people really have been programmed good and proper …

44834 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 1, #763 of 1906 🔗

Television tells us virus is alive in surfaces, it’s not alive in post!
Skynews every ad break for lockdown months.

Your customer might of been thinking something like, ‘it’s a Wednesday, an even Wednesday -now, is Covi Coroni spread across the papers today or not? …better ask the wise, clued-up looking lady…’

44635 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 8, #764 of 1906 🔗

This cheered me up – priceless comedy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnwgZli1_Y

44638 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Moomin, 1, #765 of 1906 🔗

Thanks for this. Needed something to cheer me up!

44640 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Moomin, 3, #766 of 1906 🔗

Yep – JP’s videos really hit the spot: almost believable, but with a twinkle!

44648 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #767 of 1906 🔗

Another reason to be extremely wary about the rush to develop and inject with a vaccine that has not be subject to rigorous testing and evaluation – the independent report just out on Primodos, an epilepsy drug and the vaginal mesh procedure. This comes out in the midst of the infected blood inquiry (that the government is deliberately dragging out to save in compensation payments).

44935 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #768 of 1906 🔗

Alliance for natural health have made an excellent video on this, plus flyers: https://www.anhinternational.org/news/the-uncertain-promise-of-a-covid-vaccine-the-video/

44662 Cecil B, 1, #769 of 1906 🔗

The great covid fraud marches on

( I have heard of a great investment opportunity involving a company hoping to start trading with South America, buy in now)

44667 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #770 of 1906 🔗

Just a small observation for the day.

UK – Population 68M – 44,391 deaths
Predicted deaths with no lockdown 500k based on modelling

Brazil – Population 212M – 66,868 deaths
No lockdown, death curve starting to level at around 1k per day

500k – 67k = 433k
It would take Brazil 433 days at current levels to reach 500k deaths, assuming the daily death toll remains the same

I know we all know the modelling is junk but this is pretty conclusive in my book.

44777 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #771 of 1906 🔗

And it looks like lockdowns are too! No real surprise there.

44668 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #772 of 1906 🔗

Rowling, Rushdie and Atwood warn against ‘intolerance’ in open letter
 https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/08/jk-rowling-rushdie-and-atwood-warn-against-intolerance-in-open-letter

Only last night I was thinking that the one positive thing in the gloom is that because ‘progress’ never stops, and because the left is voraciously eating its own at an accelerating rate, some of the previous virtue-signalling wokerati have finally realised the error of their ways and emerged blinking into the light.

I remember a year or two ago, assuring a would-be woke friend of mine who is in his 50s that eventually he would find his core principles and assumptions being challenged, and he would find himself struggling to stay on the ‘progressive’ side. I think that moment has come.

44671 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #773 of 1906 🔗

It’s a welcome brake on the accelerating madness in the other direction. Let’s hope they start a trend.

44672 Hopeful, 10, #774 of 1906 🔗

My hairdresser is insisting I wear a mask. I will not so won’t be going to her salon any time soon.
Got me searching for recent, reliable information on the effects of mask wearing. Watched Dan Dicks’ channel Press for Truth where he was speaking with a science professor from Ontario Civil Liberties Association. Said professor and his colleagues have written to the WHO requesting they withdraw their directive for the global public to don a mask. It is a very interesting read. Certainly lifted my spirits after I’d listened to this guy and read the letter. Don’t know if Tedros will understand it but the Irish guy can no doubt explain the medical facts to him!
All available on OCLA website and visit the Press for Truth video for the professor’s insights. I particularly like his request we practice some civil disobedience and refuse the mask.

44676 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #775 of 1906 🔗

Why would someone who is worried about the coronavirus use antibacterial spray?

44683 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #776 of 1906 🔗

Because they’ve been told to use it and haven’t bothered to question why.

44804 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #777 of 1906 🔗

Because they are, by definition, stupid.

45004 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #778 of 1906 🔗

Indeed. antibacterial spray would definitely not kill the virus.

44678 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 2, #779 of 1906 🔗

> Counter-cultural revolutionaries like Jordan Peterson

Jordan Peterson is a free speech proselytiser at best, but not a revolutionary by any stretch of the imagination. In fact the main thrust of his rhetoric is aimed, like most psychiatry, at adjusting the attitudes of people who (may rightly) feel ill at ease in the modern milieu so that they no longer have antagonistic feelings towards it, thereby reifying and validating the current social structure. He’s also profoundly psychologically damaged himself, and very unstable. Not a shining example worthy of emulation, or elevation to figurehead status, IMO.

And on Hamilton: central banking is one of the reasons we are about to see an epic global depression, deferred by fiat over these last few months. Come October, watch it unravel. Hamilton was not a great dude and America would have been better off without his influence.

44691 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Edgar Friendly, 5, #780 of 1906 🔗

Agree with you on October being when sh.. hits the fan. The parallels in the US market with 1987 and 1929 are apposite. Watch and wait, but 2000 and 2007 likely just the warm-up. I am very worried.

44714 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Edgar Friendly, 2, #781 of 1906 🔗

He’s turned round an awful lot of people’s lives, mainly young men, and probably saved a lot of lives too. It’s not the current social structure he supports. That’s where we are currently and is a mess. It’s more the traditional social structure (although he would define that better than me). Hence the desperate attempts by the progressive MSM to destroy him in interview after interview. They didn’t succeed.

His own problems are irrelevant.

44729 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #782 of 1906 🔗

Peterson may or may not be a revolutionary but I think he has a lot going for him. He talks and writes a lot of what seems to me common sense about how to manage your own life, and he has consistently stood up for realism and freedom of speech despite the risks to his career and his sanity. He has spoken before hostile politicians, audiences, and media, and been fearless, calm and mightily impressive in making his case. He has made no secret of his own personal issues.

44717 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edgar Friendly, #783 of 1906 🔗

When a government betrays the people by amassing too much power and becoming tyrannical, the people have no choice but to exercise their original right of self-defense – to fight the government. A. Hamilton.

44862 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #784 of 1906 🔗

you’re just pissed because you fit his archetype of the boy whom never cleans his room

45052 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Edgar Friendly, 2, #785 of 1906 🔗

Peterson is a Clinical Psychologist, which is not psychiatry. (Don’t even get me started on psychiatry). I have watched innumerable hours of Peterson lectures, and you are right, he is not a revolutionary. Quite the contrary, he is a defender of traditions and behaviour modification, and for having ‘social psychology’ in his areas of interest, I have never come across him challenging the foundations of psychology. (Critical psychology typically falls under social psychology).

Where Peterson (and his PhD students) are doing groundbreaking research, however, is in exploring the authoritarian left, and they have been spot on with that.

44681 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #786 of 1906 🔗

Warning of serious brain disorders in people with mild coronavirus symptoms …The cases, published in the journal Brain, revealed a rise in a life-threatening condition called acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (Adem), as the first wave of infections swept through Britain

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/08/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-covid-symptoms

Sounds uniquely terrifying. But if we look Adem up in Wikipedia, what do we find? It’s caused by pretty much anything, including vaccines .

From Wikipedia:
Some viral infections thought to induce ADEM include influenza virus, dengue,[24] enterovirus, measles,[25] mumps, rubella, varicella zoster, Epstein–Barr virus, cytomegalovirus, herpes simplex virus, hepatitis A, coxsackievirus and COVID-19[26]. Bacterial infections include Mycoplasma pneumoniae, Borrelia burgdorferi, Leptospira, and beta-hemolytic Streptococci.[27].

Exposure to vaccines: The only vaccine proven related to ADEM is the Semple form of the rabies vaccine, but hepatitis B, pertussis, diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, pneumococcus, varicella, influenza, Japanese encephalitis, and polio vaccines have all been implicated. The majority of the studies that correlate vaccination with ADEM onset use small samples or case studies.[citation needed] Large scale epidemiological studies (e.g., of MMR vaccine or smallpox vaccine) do not show increased risk of ADEM following vaccination.[9][28][29][30][20][31][32][33][34][35][36] An upper bound for the risk of ADEM from measles vaccination, if it exists, can be estimated to be 10 per million,[37] which is far lower than the risk of developing ADEM from an actual measles infection, which is about 1 per 1,000 cases. For a rubella infection, the risk is 1 per 5,000 cases.[31][38] Some early vaccines, later shown to have been contaminated with host animal CNS tissue, had ADEM incident rates as high as 1 in 600.

44688 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #787 of 1906 🔗

Explains why poor old Adam was so nervous though. 🙂

44690 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #788 of 1906 🔗

So in other words this study is equivalent to the disclaimers on any medicine one might get from the chemist?

44721 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Barney McGrew, #789 of 1906 🔗

It should read brain disorders in lockdown zealots!

44749 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #790 of 1906 🔗

I said this earlier when somebody posted the same article that none of the things attributed to this virus are particularly new or unusual. Look at the first thing listed as a potential cause of ADEM – Flu.

44752 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, #791 of 1906 🔗

I think the zealots are still scraping the barrel. Had to laugh at them over on Guido when they were telling me that Covid causes it… “It’s a vascular disease!” No it bloody isn’t.

44750 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #792 of 1906 🔗

Also from Wikipedia:

“It affects about 8 per 1,000,000 people per year. [9] Although it occurs in all ages, most reported cases are in children and adolescents , with the average age around 5 to 8 years old. [10] [11] [12] [13] The disease affects males and females almost equally. [14] ADEM shows seasonal variation with higher incidence in winter and spring months which may coincide with higher viral infections during these months. [13] The mortality rate may be as high as 5%; however, full recovery is seen in 50 to 75% of cases with increase in survival rates up to 70 to 90% with figures including minor residual disability as well. [15] The average time to recover from ADEM flare-ups is one to six months.”

44802 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nick Rose, #793 of 1906 🔗

So 8 per million in a population of 60M would be 48. The article states “more than 40 UK Covid-19 patients whose complications ranged from brain inflammation and delirium to nerve damage and stroke”.

Seems to be still within the realms of normal to me.

44944 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #794 of 1906 🔗

Delirium is a common symptom accompanying a fever. It can cause seizures, leading to brain damage, which is is why monitoring and limiting the patient’s temperature is so important.
It’s one of the main problems with flu!

44791 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #795 of 1906 🔗

The brain disorders are a symptom of Coronapanic.

44685 Paul B, replying to Paul B, 9, #796 of 1906 🔗

Chancellor paying people to go out rather than saying it wasn’t really ever dangerous, I suppose it’s the best we are going to get.

44742 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Paul B, 7, #797 of 1906 🔗

Paying people to go out. Last month it was paying people to stay in.

44784 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 9, #798 of 1906 🔗

Could. Not. Make. This. Shit. Up.

44686 Awkward Git, 8, #799 of 1906 🔗

Just chased a council for an answer as they have ignored the clarification they asked me for and I sent them 2 weeks ago:

“It’s now been 2 weeks since our e-mail correspondence and your request for me to clarify a point in my original e-mail which I promptly did (see below).

The answer is a simple yes or no answer and for which the information to come to an answer should be readily available with your department as the legislation that is in force for dealing with this “pandemic” and “covid-19” says that all communications with the relevant affected busines(es) MUST be in writing. If written notice is issued then surely a copy must be kept on file with yourselves.

So here is the question in case you have inadvertently deleted my previous correspondence:

Are the Council following the protocols as laid down in the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984?

I look forward to your answer.

Yours sincerely”

Not expecting just from them.

44689 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 10, #800 of 1906 🔗

Daily deaths from the virus:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

Similar looking graphs, which they wouldn’t be if the UK lockdown made a difference. The Swedish graph should have continued upwards, or remained level, while the UK graph fell. But that didn’t happen.

So if the lockdown didn’t make a difference, why would masks make a difference?

44723 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #801 of 1906 🔗

Ah, but the lockdown zealots will point out that Sweden is having a really horrible torrid time compared to Norway and Denmark. They might even try and fob you off with a graph (ending 19th June) which shows the deaths on a “rolling average deaths per million”.

You know lockdowns make no difference. I know lockdowns make no difference. But they’re making it difficult to speak to them…

45008 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #802 of 1906 🔗

Ah but remember, the reason for the lockdown was to flatten the curve / give the NHS time to get on top of it. That has happened but we still have lockdown. So the question is what is going on with all these additional things such as masks, quarantine long after the peak etc.

44692 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #803 of 1906 🔗

The local authority has been busily placing signs on Pelican Crossings, saying, “COVID 19 Do Not Push Button”. This implies that the crossings were (are) unnecessary. If so, why were they installed in the first place?

44697 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #804 of 1906 🔗

Oh no. I can’t stand any more stupidity! 😒

44710 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #805 of 1906 🔗

Recycle those signs ! You know it makes sense.

44803 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #806 of 1906 🔗

‘We don’t worry in the slightest about children and old people being mangled by a lorry, but a bit of flu has us wetting our corporate knickers.’

45010 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #807 of 1906 🔗

What?? You can’t make up this nonsense.

45219 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #808 of 1906 🔗

So don’t use a rail if you’re climbing stairs or getting on a bus? Don’t touch anything in other words. FUCKING INSANITY!!!!

44699 John B, replying to John B, 20, #809 of 1906 🔗

So just treat it as another item of clothing that is part of the new normal..’

Like having to wear the Star of David was for Jews in Germany?

What next will we be compelled to wear at the whim of politicians?

44702 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John B, 3, #810 of 1906 🔗

Carry a bell?

44715 ▶▶▶ John B, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #811 of 1906 🔗

And shout, ‘Unclean. Unclean.’

44722 ▶▶ Edna, replying to John B, 15, #812 of 1906 🔗

My husband has said that if he is forced to wear a mask, he will have one that displays the Star of David. He’s not Jewish, but he views forced mask-wearing as very much akin to the forced wearing of the Star of David.

44738 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Edna, 3, #813 of 1906 🔗

Yes, I think you are right.

45081 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Edna, #814 of 1906 🔗

Brilliant!

45217 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Edna, #815 of 1906 🔗

Perhaps somoene can do a line of masks with ‘Juden’ written across the front. (and to my Jewish friends this is in solidarity with those persecuted by the Nazis though no doubt the woke brigade will find it anti-semitic.)

44728 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to John B, 5, #816 of 1906 🔗

Exactly, John. They can tattoo a number on my wrist first.

44741 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #817 of 1906 🔗

That’s the vaccine passport

44700 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 17, #818 of 1906 🔗

What happens if you are told to wear a mask by someone who is wearing a mask, and you reply, “five to four”, or “it’s just down the road [pointing], you can’t miss it”, or “well, that’s a not a word I would use personally about Mr Hancock but I know what you mean”?

44706 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Mike Smith, 7, #819 of 1906 🔗

Brilliant!

44747 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Mike Smith, 4, #820 of 1906 🔗

Like it – with the follow-up, “Sorry, what did you say?”.

44773 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mike Smith, 8, #821 of 1906 🔗

Carry around a banner that says “Talking can kill, Shhhh!” and wave that at people if they start talking to you.

In fact something that might work is to go extreme to highlight the absurdity of it all.

“I don’t talk to protect you” – Wave that at everyone who attempts to talk in any situation.

44790 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #822 of 1906 🔗

Shall do that. Great.

45038 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #823 of 1906 🔗

I’m going to be doing this for sure.

45077 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mike Smith, #824 of 1906 🔗

Great idea. Thanks.

44712 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 18, #825 of 1906 🔗

I have just been listening to the Chancellor announcing his “Eat out to Help out” scheme. He is desperate, like every politician, to get people behaving just as they use to. Inhibiting that from happening, surely, is insisting that people wear face masks. Face masks signal that nowhere is safe. Getting on a bus is far more risky than crossing the road! Is it? Let’s say it is. Isn’t taking such risks worth it to get the economy moving again? Otherwise they’ll be less money for the health service and could well do more harm to people’s well being than is ever caused by the virus.

44746 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #826 of 1906 🔗

More bloody stupid slogans and the onus is on businesses, at at time when they least need it, to fill out more damn paperwork. And when has trying to claim money back from gov’t ever been easy?

45026 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to kh1485, 5, #827 of 1906 🔗

Just saw this that someone posted on Simon Dolan’s Twitter feed:

We have gone from –

Stay Home – Protect the NHS – Save Lives

To…

Stay Alert – Control the Virus – Save Lives

And now…

Eat Out – Rescue the Economy we Crashed – Save our Bacon

I thought this could be made into a tee-shirt – print all 3 slogans as a list, starting with the first two, but print a line through them so they are crossed out, however still legible. Leave the 3rd one as it is.
Makes the point that we are being governed by slogan and that the goalposts keep changing, as well as what the latest announcement really means..!

45036 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, 2, #828 of 1906 🔗

Why oh WHY don’t more people notice this?!

44928 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ned of the Hills, #829 of 1906 🔗

They say one thing and mean another. There is no intention for us to get back to normal and trashing businesses is just part of it. Look where the money is really going for the answer.

44990 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #830 of 1906 🔗

This scheme sounds like madness, and I know I tend to be suspicious, but in truth there is no such thing as a free lunch… Why only vouchers for food, and not clothes? Answer: because people rarely turn down an offer of free food so take-up is likely to be high.

But now ask yourself, might there be more to it? The taking of names at the bar of pubs was clearly a means of gathering people’s personal details by the back door, because people are not signing up to Track and Trace.. So somewhere in this I suspect people will have to give their personal details, either (like Pret) via a QR code, or maybe by needing to scan your voucher on your phone before you pay, or similar method..

44998 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, 4, #831 of 1906 🔗

You’re not the only one who is suspicious. When this was announced, our first thought that it was another means of data collection.

45213 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, #832 of 1906 🔗

The data is on your card so why bother though?

45041 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 4, #833 of 1906 🔗

That’s a very good point. it’ll be interesting to see which establishments this scheme will be valid for.
I’ll bet it won’t be independent ones. It’ll be all the chain places. Which means a standardised form of taking names in each restaurant- the individual managers and staff won’t have any choice over how to interpret the ‘rules’, they will just follow them to the letter.
More contact details and potential cases for TT&T.

45033 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #834 of 1906 🔗

Therefore making people feel guilty for not eating out, after weeks of making them feel guilty for leaving their own house…

45083 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #835 of 1906 🔗

It’s bonkers and as I’ve pointed out, its not addressing the elephant in the room which is antisocial distancing. Sunak can offer to pay for my meal but if it means having to queue, fill out a form, be served by muzzled staff you can’t understand, no loos and follow one ways systems then sorry, he can stick the free meal where the sun don’t shine.

44716 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #836 of 1906 🔗

Waiting for my curry to cook I’m having a delve into the depths of the interweb.

Looking at the reasons behind the war on cash in recent years but especially now I found this website:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200506095929/https://www.betterthancash.org/

And look who’s behind it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20200508173146/https://www.betterthancash.org/members

No surprise there then.

44925 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Awkward Git, #837 of 1906 🔗

Is there anything dodgy the BMGF is not mixed up in?

44963 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #838 of 1906 🔗

If it’s not him it’s George Soros.

44981 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #839 of 1906 🔗

I started clicking on the links to who is behind it but some of the urls have not been saved, according to the website. Was not surprised to see Gates and The Clinton foundation, but H&M (the clothes stores, not Harry and Meghan) and Save the Children were a bit of a surprise…

44718 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 22, #841 of 1906 🔗

Ok, I’m finally through watching the pink-Tories spaff through our tax, but never ever do a single thing to help or support those who are actually paying most of the tax! Toby, please, please, please could you get on a Teams call with Lol Fox, Hitchens, Delingpole and Frisby and get us a credible right of Centre, dare I say populist, Party in place for four years time? I’m not sure I can handle being ‘forced’ to vote Tory, just to keep the Gorgon out of number 11 – we deserve better! How about a Freedom Party?

44724 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 12, #842 of 1906 🔗

As Hitchens has been saying, and I now agree, just don’t vote. They have crossed the line.

Instead of a VAT cut, how about removing all the red tape so people actually want to spend again?

44727 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Julian, 2, #843 of 1906 🔗

What on earth is the point of that? Hitchens is great at analysis, but he said once that we should give up, and this is more of the same. No.

44732 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #844 of 1906 🔗

He may have said we should give up (though he hasn’t given up) but giving up and not voting are not the same thing. If there’s no party that is remotely acceptable to you, why legitimise any of them by voting for them.

44743 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 1, #845 of 1906 🔗

Yes – this is the great dilemma at the base of our so-called democracy.

44744 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Julian, 1, #846 of 1906 🔗

There will be by 2024.

44753 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #847 of 1906 🔗

Maybe – but I thought that before the last GE, and donated a chunk of money to the Brexit Party – only to have them stand down in most seats, including mine. Politics and betrayal – what is the difference?!!

44774 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #848 of 1906 🔗

I will keep a lookout for them, and fervently hope so!

44734 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Julian, 2, #849 of 1906 🔗

Don’t vote, get Gorgon, that’s the problem….

44739 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #850 of 1906 🔗

Which may however be the only way to get the great masses to realise how socialism destroys – at the moment we have it anyway and many fan-boys think that we have Conservatives in power: the very worst situation.

44769 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #851 of 1906 🔗

Then you’re perpetuating the problem and nothing will change.

44953 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 2, #852 of 1906 🔗

Exactly! If you don’t vote, they win by default. That’s why an alternative is urgently needed.

44735 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 1, #853 of 1906 🔗

At present, indeed, there seems no option but spoiling one’s vote but, oh, if only we could have a real Conservative Party to vote for!

44768 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to IanE, 11, #854 of 1906 🔗

I totally agree. The current incumbents are Conservatives in name only. I never thought I would see a Conservative government enacting such policies of economic largesse. Sunak stated that the ‘eat out to help out’ scheme had ‘never been tried before’ in the UK – there’s a good reason for that! I am a rare breed as a 21 year old who votes Conservative but frankly this shower has turned me off voting for them as long as they are in high office and I feel politically homeless right now.

I previously told myself that I would keep voting Conservative as it is important that the party retains a centre-right moderate wing and has a young support base and I have always had economically Conservative principles but after what they’ve done, I honestly can’t bring myself to support these tossers. That’s putting it mildly. I guess I could justify continuing to support and vote Conservative by telling myself that these idiots in office aren’t true Conservatives, merely populists.

44839 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Poppy, 3, #855 of 1906 🔗

I clearly remember David Cameron’s big speech about the Conservatives being the party that gets things done, that’s there to support Britons who want to get out and start a business etc. That was an exciting time for people like me who’d just started a company. Fast forward to 2020 and that company I’d started has no clients despite me working my arse of for 8 years. All thanks to the Conservatives, who are nothing like the Party of 2012.

44924 ▶▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to IanE, 1, #856 of 1906 🔗

What we have is New Labour in a blue rosette, but the FPTP voting system makes it a ‘club’ with new entrants barred, democracy a sham

45270 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, #857 of 1906 🔗

I’d write “NONE OF THE ABOVE” from now on. Mr Bart won’t like it but its my vote and my choice.

44737 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, 4, #858 of 1906 🔗

I agree. Decided at the beginning of this nightmare, I will never vote again.

44765 ▶▶▶▶ Pjb, replying to kh1485, 2, #859 of 1906 🔗

If you don’t vote, then you can’t complain when other people decide for you.
See comment above…

44767 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Pjb, 2, #860 of 1906 🔗

There’s no-one who represents me … so who do I vote for? Only option is to spoil my ballot …

44770 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to kh1485, 1, #861 of 1906 🔗

I agree.

44952 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to kh1485, #862 of 1906 🔗

Would it not be easier to just stay at home?

44961 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to John P, 1, #863 of 1906 🔗

John, how lovely, you’re back …

44780 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Pjb, 2, #864 of 1906 🔗

See my comment to Ethelred above.

44858 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Pjb, 3, #865 of 1906 🔗

if you do vote then those of us who didn’t can complain that it’s your fault voting for the government. There is no democracy. There is no sense in groups of idiots standing together having more of a clue what to do than an individual man. In fact it’s worse. The more of these people who want to help society through politics the worse it has become. You can’t even fart anymore with the government fining you 60 quid for harming the Ozone layer

44938 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to kh1485, 2, #866 of 1906 🔗

But what good does not voting actually *do*??? Even if fewer people vote, someone still gets elected.. As far as I know, there is not a lower threshold of participation which automatically voids an election result???

44951 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 1, #867 of 1906 🔗

“But what good does not voting actually *do*?”

about as much good as voting does!

44958 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, 1, #868 of 1906 🔗

I know, but I’m not going to vote for someone just because they are slightly less bad than the other lot. I didn’t come to this decision lightly. It’s just that no-one represents me, they are all much of a muchness in my opinion. Quite honestly, what we are experiencing right now is what I would have expected under a Corbyn government. Until there is a credible alternative, a party that is truly conservative (something we have not had for many, many years), then I will spoil my ballot. Is the Monster Raving Loony Party still around?

44766 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Julian, 3, #869 of 1906 🔗

We didn’t vote last time because the Brexit Party candidate stood down. It doesn’t look like we’ll be voting next time either if this carries on.

44762 ▶▶ Pjb, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #870 of 1906 🔗

Is there something wrong with https://www.forbritain.uk/about/
?

44927 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Pjb, 2, #871 of 1906 🔗

I’m afraid there is, what is required is a clearly right of centre Party that A lot of ‘decent’ folk would feel very happy to support, not tainted by suspicion of being somewhat further to the right than the masses’ could get behind. Farage has the right idea but they system’ turned4m votes into one Seat, that’s the disgusting bit (even worse when you look at how many seats the SNP took with half those votes)

44771 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 6, #872 of 1906 🔗

The way I’ve seen it for a long time now is that the Democracy we have is an illusion. When we vote all we are doing is voting for more or less of the same thing.

44805 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #873 of 1906 🔗

Democracy died four years ago.
I really think lab and con get together now and again and say “You have the next go, then we’ll have a couple, then it’ll be your turn again”.

44845 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 3, #874 of 1906 🔗

There are so many aspects of business life and tax with redtape that means, for one example, that it is nigh on impossible for small companies, even one man bands, to get access to innovation funds. I’ve tried myself and the red tape and control over your pricing is idiotic. Which means my ideas will be bootstrapped by me and that I am put off ever taking government money.

For a lot of entrepreneurs out there all they want is say 50,000 to work their idea through. Basic vetting and a few interviews to weed out scams and that’s it.

Trouble is there are whole departments involved in handing out money. Positions and the gravy train require people with no business experience or risk experience to be in control of who gets what.

Only those who are in the know get the nod.

This country is burdened by over taxation and over regulation. If they reduced taxes dramatically and actually fired half the public sector you would see an initial surge in unemployment. But then you’d have a lot of businesses and individuals able to provide opportunities.

But you can’t control people by letting them get on with things.

45013 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #875 of 1906 🔗

Yes PLEASEEEE

44725 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 13, #876 of 1906 🔗

Has anyone else noticed how this government seems to think that everything can be solved just by throwing money at it and announcing big numbers? Boris did it the other day when he made his massive gaff (seriously why someone hasn’t called for his resignation because of it I don’t know) about covid deaths in care homes being their fault, now it’s eating out, furlough, etc. Isn’t it really a subtle form of bribery?

44730 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Moomin, 13, #877 of 1906 🔗

Yes – and, as usual, it is with future tax-payer’s money with no by-your-leave. I am sick to my gullet with this faux-Tory faux-capitalist sham-pain government. Time for a revolution!

44761 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to IanE, 10, #878 of 1906 🔗

What is desperately needed is a Right Wing Party to step forward.

44854 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to IanE, 8, #879 of 1906 🔗

Sturgeon wants to borrow 80 billion Holy shit that woman is insane. She has never earned a penny for this country, doesn’t have the first clue how to run business and now wants to borrow on top of all the other borrowing another 80 billion. She needs to get out there selling more haggis to the chinks, tell them if they thought bat soup was disgusting they’ll love haggis.

44833 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Moomin, 4, #880 of 1906 🔗

Well, something is starting to crawl from the bottom of a Scottish loch. Gold has hit 1800 dollars and this is without a visible stock market crash (if anything a short-lived happened three months ago to then be met with money printing).

Some out there are starting to prepare for the oncoming shitstorm.

45091 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Moomin, 1, #881 of 1906 🔗

Its not just this government, its been like that for years and it doesn’t matter which party is in power.

Trouble is the public have become so used to the state doing everything for us. I seriously doubt if the likes of Peel, Palmerston, Disraeli, Gladstone, even Baldwin and Churchill would have even considered a harebrained scheme like “Eat Out to Help Out”

44726 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #882 of 1906 🔗

Black Lives Matter protests did not cause an uptick in covid-19 cases
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/06/30/black-lives-matter-protests-did-not-cause-an-uptick-in-covid-19-cases

the available evidence suggests that this month’s Black Lives Matter protests have not contributed to a surge in covid-19 cases. In a new working paper , researchers from Bentley University, the University of Colorado and San Diego State University used mobile-phone data from SafeGraph, a geolocation data firm, and covid-19 case data from the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention to determine whether the protests were associated with less social-distancing behaviour and more covid-19 cases. In fact, the opposite was true.

44977 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #883 of 1906 🔗

Yet, we are hearing that the 4th of july celebrations were horribly dangerous… the ability of people to engage in this unbelievably comical hypocrisy is amazing. Covid does not strike liberal protests, but if conservatives get together for any reason, death lurks around the corner. The real news is going to put the Babylon Bee out of business.

44992 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to RyanM, 1, #884 of 1906 🔗

The main comeback I see from them is that they “all wore masks”. If this is the case what is the need for even 1 metre distancing, or any distancing at all? Of course this is neglecting the fact that this isn’t true, they were screaming and shouting and jostling all day.

45115 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #885 of 1906 🔗

Lol what’s news footage were they watching?

Only a few of them wore masks.
– The ones who were smashing shit up 😉

44748 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 17, #886 of 1906 🔗

You all have by now experienced the absurdities of the current CV-19 restrictions at shops etc. and now with say, pubs and restaurants. I am interested in anyone’s views on the exit strategy or do we carry on like this?

My take is that with many more daily tests they will be finding more CV-19 cases, although 4/5ths may be asymptomatic as reported. The deaths will continue to dribble along with, for all we know, over 80’s with multiple other life-threatening conditions. So, as long as there are cases and some deaths do we stay in this half open limbo of restricted movement and social interaction? Until when?

44755 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bill Hickling, 26, #887 of 1906 🔗

It’s a farce. What is evident is the government isn’t up to the job and neither is the NHS. Open everything up and let’s get on with it. Those who want to wear masks and social distance do so but let the rest of us get on living OUR lives!

44785 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bella Donna, 15, #888 of 1906 🔗

Hear hear, let the twats be twats and let us get on with things. Interestingly yesterday I found the letter boris sent explaining why lockdown was needed. Clearly said to decrease demand on NHS which we all know was under control after about 3 weeks.

At that point in time did the government know this purgatory was the long short term plan.

I wonder if there will be a leaked memo or whistleblower confirming what we all know and a mass super Saturday back to normal or civil unrest or dare I say a terrorist attack to divert our attention.

Or maybe I shouldn’t of eaten the Brown acid and this is some weird freaky trip!

44849 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to stefarm, 3, #889 of 1906 🔗

Acid was invented by the deep state to confuse the hippies and it worked. Just like E was as well. Generations of fools out their minds on drugs have allowed these evil creatures to make it we’ll never be free of them, not in my lifetime that’s for sure.

45093 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #890 of 1906 🔗

Exactly. Throwing money won’t solve the problem – people will simply continue to stay away. Just let us get on with life as it was before 23 March and if certain people are still too scared to leave the house, just let them stay at home.

44756 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bill Hickling, 8, #891 of 1906 🔗

Until the vaccine comes along then it will solve everything until the next time.

Bill Gates has said so.

44757 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #892 of 1906 🔗

That is the real reason our lives are being deliberately changed. Boris and his friends must have shares in Gates’s vaccine, and probably mask manufacturers as well.

44835 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #893 of 1906 🔗

I checked out the two types of face masks on display in Boots yesterday (out of curiosity – not to buy!). Both products were manufactured in China. These Chinese mask-makers must be making a killing…

44945 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #894 of 1906 🔗

the irony

45852 ▶▶▶▶▶ Shep, replying to Mr Dee, #895 of 1906 🔗

Main character traits;- masking emotion{saving face}, chasing money{selling any old tat})

44852 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #896 of 1906 🔗

Bill Gates went to Epstein’s Island three times and i don’t think he was just dishing out vaccines to the young people there. Who knows why anyone would go to an island where young woman are kept as sex slaves, i can’t imagine but Bill obviously didn’t know anything about that he just went to hang out with Prince Andrew and Bill Clinton, just regular folk like that.

44947 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Biker, 1, #897 of 1906 🔗

I’ve read articles asking if the FBI will interview him. Stars at 2:15(ish)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGcQgssrZt0&feature=emb_logo

There is stuff going back to his teens that is a bit murky and needs corroborating about his run ins with the Police in bellevue, washington:

https://corruptico.com/2017/08/31/bill-gates-arrested-cop-fired/

and a few other very murky things lurking in his past.

45031 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #898 of 1906 🔗

anyone who went to his island to my mind must be considered a user of trafficked young girls or t the very least be willing to publicly declare what they were doing there and who were they with.

45294 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Biker, #899 of 1906 🔗

Agree with you 100%.

Here’s another link to his past that needs investigated.

https://corruptico.com/2018/03/28/pedophile-bing/

44764 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bill Hickling, 8, #900 of 1906 🔗

Is Rishi’s Magic Money Tree a hint that they will let us out to play? Or, going off current form, will they tell us to spend, spend, spend, while closing everywhere that we could do?

44776 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Bill Hickling, 13, #901 of 1906 🔗

I find it interesting that way back in April, during the dark days of perpetual lock-up, testing was touted as the ‘only’ way out of lockdown. The MSM demanded that the government scale up its capacity and test, test, test like lives depended on it (literally). It is therefore deeply ironic that increased testing has likely been weaponised to actually keep certain regions in lockdown in order to exercise control – see Leicester.

44827 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Poppy, 9, #902 of 1906 🔗

Exactly. We here always knew this is exactly what they were shooting for. Without testing they have no cases. THEY HAVE NOTHING WITHOUT TESTING.

44976 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #903 of 1906 🔗

We need to persuade people to *not* get tested, unless they are actually ill..

45055 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 1, #904 of 1906 🔗

Even if they’re actually ill. Just go to bed and take some Lemsip.

Unless of course you need the hospital in which case they’re gonna test you anyway.

45061 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 1, #905 of 1906 🔗

That was what I meant really; I just didn’t express myself very well! The point was not to get tested unnecessarily..
But be careful with Lemsip if you have heart problems; it can cause arrhythmia..

45111 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, #906 of 1906 🔗

😊 I know – soz
I’m being officious today clearly. A bit snappy. I feel a bit…. anxious today for some reason.
Rishi’s cash party has me feeling uneasy

44875 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 1, #907 of 1906 🔗

“100,000 a day by the end of May”, I distinctly remember spluttering into my vimtoe “no you won’t”. So yeah, big media scrum over that.

44788 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bill Hickling, 6, #908 of 1906 🔗

Just wait until it fizzles out.

44890 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to annie, 4, #909 of 1906 🔗

They’ll latch onto the winter flu season next. Keep kicking the can Boris! He must be wetting himself waiting for Gates’s telephone call shouting Eureka!

44822 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Bill Hickling, 11, #910 of 1906 🔗

It is very very odd that no one in government is saying they were wrong about the lethality of the virus, and that they panicked with the best intentions perhaps would help and now let’s get on with life and the restrictions can stop. They will stop I am sure after a few weeks. Remember it’s only day 5 of opening up.

From knowing health service workers in many roles I know there is a growing number sceptical and more will speak out like Leicester Dr. Admissions will go down and deaths too, so more workers will leak what is going on or not going on in hospitals. Even increased testing can’t find what isn’t there. And the ongoing ONS infection survey if it continues to show decline can’t be denied.

But would a legal challenge help? Perhaps Toby’s challenge of Ofcom suppressing alternative views is a start. I don’t know if some kind of group legal action might be needed which would allow views to be raised in a public way?

45205 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to wendy, #911 of 1906 🔗

You’re assuming this is a well-intentioned, if botched, operation. It’s not, it’s a coup.

44987 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Bill Hickling, 2, #912 of 1906 🔗

It is amazing that the BBC report 80% being asymptomatic as terrible, hide under your bed news because so many people could have it and you’ll never know! Surely even moderate bed wetters will read that and think this is surely a good thing, that such a large percentage of people will not even know they have it (including elderly people!)

45014 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bill Hickling, #913 of 1906 🔗

These tests are also not reliable. In addition, most will recover quickly (same as receiving from flu)

Don’t get a test

44763 Bruno, replying to Bruno, 17, #914 of 1906 🔗

I think we should petition for all the festivals, Glastonbury, Reading, Leeds and all the others, to see if they can get up and running again this year. It would get the youngsters out there exchanging body fluids, a.k.a. gaining immunity, in a fun way, recoup some of the organisers’ money, won’t hurt the old folk-where’s the downside? The Chancellor could extend the £10 food off food to those venues if not already covered? I don’t imagine the artists have got any other gigs booked?

44789 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bruno, 12, #915 of 1906 🔗

Agree. The sooner the young people can get back to normal – proper normal – the better. Of course, should never have had their lives changed through pointless lockdown in the first place!

44837 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #916 of 1906 🔗

Yes,out and about to day a lot of the youngsters I have seen have a very haunted look about them,there has been a lot of psychological damage done.

44869 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #917 of 1906 🔗

Agree to your agreement. People need to get together always have always will. It’s fun. It’s life.

44800 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Bruno, 6, #918 of 1906 🔗

ONS care home survey showing 80% of elderly residents who tested positive were asymptomatic. It may be much less dangerous to older people too. So we have locked them away from families and friends since March for what?

44823 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wendy, 7, #919 of 1906 🔗

Noooo, you don’t understand! You can still pass it on. What if we all got a disease that doesn’t have any symptoms????

44842 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #920 of 1906 🔗

it’s horrific this disease, truly frightening. I’m walking around shitting myself that if i catch it i won’t know and won’t feel unwell.

44850 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Biker, 5, #921 of 1906 🔗

That is truly shocking. We can’t let thousands of people feel that way. We have to publicise this – perhaps we could scare people a bit, or maybe make up some cases… Naaa, silly.

44886 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Biker, 2, #922 of 1906 🔗

😂 😂 😂 😂 Yeh it’s a big problem.

44863 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #923 of 1906 🔗

Stop making me laugh! No really thank you for the helping to lift me, I am very sad to have not been able to see my poor dad since early March who lives in a care home. They are too afraid to allow even safe visiting.

44885 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to wendy, #924 of 1906 🔗

We have a similar problem the real stinker is she’s in a Leicester care home, Yeh she was all ready to start seeing the family again and the day before visiting it closed because of Lockdown so this flipping government punished them for daring to live within that factory’s location!

45018 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to wendy, 2, #925 of 1906 🔗

This is sadism .

44841 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Bruno, 12, #926 of 1906 🔗

Glastonbury being cancelled is on the good things of this whole debacle. A bunch of spoiled woke lefty fannies pretending to be revolutionaries while dancing to shite you hear own radio one while on shitty drugs while the whole thing is broadcast by the wankers at the BBC. Awful.

44772 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #927 of 1906 🔗

City bypass traffic information gantries:

Plan ahead
Stay safe
Save lives

-!

44775 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 7, #928 of 1906 🔗

Yeah seen them on the bypass. Pish

44779 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 4, #929 of 1906 🔗

Totally pointless pish. No idea what I’m to do. With a seat belt at least there’s a point.

44781 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Basics, 3, #930 of 1906 🔗

It would be a great pity if something bad were to happen to those signs wouldn’t it?

44786 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, #931 of 1906 🔗

Noooo.

44819 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #932 of 1906 🔗

Would mean getting hold of a light aircraft and or large JCB… I’ll put my shoes on…

44857 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #933 of 1906 🔗

Mmmmm. There are other ways of getting to high-up things.

44832 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 1, #934 of 1906 🔗

I don’t understand. What is meant to be the point of this exactly?

44838 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 6, #935 of 1906 🔗

i’ve planned ahead and got a pension
i’ve managed to stay safe for 50 years
and once i dragged a chick from the passenger window when her car was on it’s roof and on fire so i saved her life.

44867 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 1, #936 of 1906 🔗

Save liveS though isn’t it biker… have you not ever done something for a hedgehog or gone to kill a fly and then not bothered maybe?

45032 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, #937 of 1906 🔗

I wish they would start using traffic information signs to actually display traffic information again…

45108 ▶▶ ikaraki, replying to Basics, #938 of 1906 🔗

Yup, there is even a portable one set up along the A1 in an emergency lay-by. It has been there since near the start of lockdown. Sick of seeing it five days a week on my commute.

44798 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 33, #939 of 1906 🔗

So here we are – for almost 4 months (and a little bit longer by October) the government has paid people to stay at home. It is now paying them to go outside. Is this what we have come to – people waiting for the government to tell them what to do? Have people become so neutered in their apathy, so unable to make individual decisions, that the state literally needs to incentivise people with what is not actually real money in order to persuade them to do something?

I watched Sunak’s speech with my bf and we tried to make light of it, because at 20 and 21, we were both all too painfully aware that the lockdown has absolutely smashed into our job prospects and futures. We laughed at the £500 voucher and honestly thought Sunak would announce it at one point but instead we get some arcane ‘eat out to help out’ (another loathsome slogan) thing which is only eligible on certain days for one month. The whole ‘Kickstarters’ scheme was not so much Kickstarter as Kick in the Teeth – my bf and I probably won’t be eligible for such a scheme because we are both students in full-time education, even though our education is structured as such so that we could both easily have part-time jobs around that, and I would very much like a part-time job alongside my education. I am part of a certain scheme which means I am guaranteed a graduate job next year but I am terrified that it will disappear if times get tough and my bf sadly has no such guarantee, even though he got very close before numerous job interviews and schemes he had secured were cancelled due to the lockdown. I was incredibly lucky because I secured my job before the pandemic but my bf has missed the boat. I do hope my sister will get some benefit out of government assistance, seeing as she will be paying for this for the rest of her life – she is 16 and not suited to university at all, she had plans to do an apprenticeship because she is much more practical than I was but I really hope she won’t be forced to go to university due to no jobs or apprenticeships being available. She has a couple of years but maybe I am too optimistic in hoping that things will have sorted themselves out by 2022.

Yet all these measures just seem so hollow because at the end of the day, even though they’re big shiny numbers now, someone will have to pay for all of this, and that will be all of us eventually through higher taxes and austerity. It feels like the government just sees money as magic digital numbers that can be manipulated at no cost. It is also astonishingly hypocritical because the Conservatives’ dreadful 2019 election campaign basically revolved around criticising Labour and the amount of money they would spend and how they would ruin the public finances. And yet we are, where the government literally subsidises people to eat out – something that has ‘never been tried before’ in the UK – for good reason.

I think the future, at least in the medium term, will be increased state intervention in our lives and a very ‘big’ government. There is now no quick way out of this because so much money has already been spent. The lockdown has also cemented the mindset that personal responsibility is not important and it is the government’s responsibility to look after you. I suppose it depends on one’s political views but my opinion is that it would make me feel rather unsafe and trapped to depend on the government for financial support, not to mention impotent and depressed.

44815 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Poppy, 13, #940 of 1906 🔗

the government has paid people to stay at home. It is now paying them to go outside.

The government does not have any money. All this government spending is going to have to be paid for. It will be paid for by higher taxes, higher prices, lower wages, cuts in public services.

44884 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #941 of 1906 🔗

I think you knew what I meant, you are just quibbling about semantics. I agree with you and I literally mention in my penultimate paragraph that this will all have to be paid for in the end with higher taxes and austerity.

44939 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Poppy, 11, #942 of 1906 🔗

If I actually start another company in the UK- doubt it very, very much unless it’s a little bar/restaurant – then I’d employ your and your boyfriend even without qualifications based on what you write on here.

Give me someone who is naturally intelligent, works hard and willing to learn and I can train you up regardless of colour, creed, sex, age or religion .

Pity most companies just look at qualifications and box ticking minority status which is why they have idiots working or them.

I think I’d be better off liquidising my assets, buying a 1 room wooden beach hut and becoming a drunken beach bum for the rest of my life working day-to-day washing up in a bar. More enjoyable than picking myself off the floor and starting over yet again for a 3rd time.

44801 Bill h, replying to Bill h, 2, #943 of 1906 🔗

Greetings fellows,

This is pretty off topic, but many of us of a certain age probably remember captain scarlet and his bunch, fighting off the evil mysterons.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bV8YbLvGrb0

Any parallels with the coronapanic ?

I found it an amusing distraction anyway 😊

44811 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bill h, 3, #944 of 1906 🔗

The Mysterons destroy things before taking over them, so yes!
The original is so much better than the modern cgi version. It really had atmosphere, possibly down to direction rather than acting…

44817 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #945 of 1906 🔗

Cracking series, indeed, original better than remakes.

Who’s Captain Black?

44831 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Julian, 3, #946 of 1906 🔗

Well, let’s see. He’s controlled by mysterious masters and intent on destroying things,so… that would be…Matt Hancock?

44876 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, #947 of 1906 🔗

If I remember correctly the baddie traitor.

44814 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Bill h, 1, #948 of 1906 🔗

Nice one. I would like to propose this aptly titled cartoon:

M.A.S.K. – Theme Tune

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vltPKoaNx8I

“No-one knows what lies behind the masqerade”

44874 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bill h, 2, #949 of 1906 🔗

Showing my age, yes I do.

Along with thunderbirds, space 1999, joe 90, trumpton, camberwick green, UFO interceptor, muppets, mary mungo an midge (now north sea oil/gas fields), magic roundabout (I always wanted to be Dylan).

What show started “anything can happen in the next half hour”?

44932 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #950 of 1906 🔗

Just remembered – Stingray with troy tempest and marina.

Those were the days.

45017 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, #951 of 1906 🔗

Thunderbirds for me.
Could they appear out of nowhere and rescue us from Wancock and his evil mob?

44828 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #952 of 1906 🔗

I’ve actually had an answer from someone at the council, someone pretty high up.

Their answer:

“I write in reference your email below. In short, the restrictions on businesses have not been dealt with under Public Health (Control of Diseases) Act 1984 as amended.

As previously stated, the Public Health (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 state in law which businesses must close during the pandemic and are subject to regular review and revision by the government. The Health and Safety at work Etc. Act 1974 requires duty holders to implement suitable health and safety measures and assess risk. Government guidance provides information and advice to support businesses in controlling the risk of Covid-19.

I hope that this clarifies your request.”

My response:

“Thank you for your reply, it is very enlightening but it is a bit disingenuous.

They were closed by the Statutory Instrument The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 but the enabling legislation is The Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 and business closure should have been done under this legislation or this country is just operating under ministerial edict without Parliamentary oversight.

Business are now open again under restrictions that are only guidance and have no force in law, as admitted by the Government.

Councils, including yours, are publishing pre-opening checklists based on this guidance for businesses and are insinuating that they follow it or will be either not allowed to open or will be shut down. The Council does not have this authority but has to follow the legislation.

Your checklist is almost identical to at least 2 other ones on various other Council and local authority websites that I have seen so it seems that a common template has been supplied from a central agency to be used by everyone.

It is generic and does not take into account any independent scientific evidence and directly observed data gathered worldwide since March 2020 that does not follow the Government’s agenda or contradicts what the Government employed “experts” (who are not the best qualified in their fields basic research will show but are connected to the right people and institutions) are stating or rather stating, changing their minds, restating and generally confusing everyone.

The data from independent experts in their field, world leading specialists, researchers from many nations and independent journalists is easy enough to find and is readily available and rips to shreds the Government’s comment “we are following the science” and the guidance is meaningless and is a “wishlist” at best.

Under the Health and Safety legislation you mention (and I have a lot of experience dealing with HSE over the years) surely you realise that a business owner or operator cannot use the defence “I was following guidelines 100%” if there is an incident and they end up in court on a HSE charge? Or will the council have a representative in the court and dock with them as co-defendent as it was the council’s guidelines they were following? Until a judge rules on the steps taken it is just a matter of opinion – yours against the business owner – on what was adequate and necessary. Opinion is not law until the judge gives their opinion.

It is their business/premises/operations and they should have performed their own risk assessment using their own research and they should have realised the guidelines were inadequate/irrelevant or inappropriate for their operations because if they were sufficient then the “incident” would not have happened or been mitigated.

If, when writing a risk assessment that shows that guidance from someone else is based on false premises, weak or non-existent science, is irrelevant or has no basis in fact and that the premises or business owner then opens up and operates under their own risk assessment based on their own research and mitigations without following your checklist or the guidance then this would be perfectly correct and legal and the council could take no action against them.

Am I correct?

End of part 1

44830 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 19, #953 of 1906 🔗

Part 2:

“Remember the phrase ALARP – as low as reasonably practicable – that is common in HSE legislation. This means exactly what it says, steps are taken to mitigate and lower the risk “as reasonably practicable”. This does not mean bankrupting the business/individuals/the country to try and stop something that has low or insignificant risk (Covid-19 was downgraded from HCID status on March 19th 2020) and as a virus cannot be stopped anyway.

Research the Covid-19 data independently and draw your own conclusions on how much of a significant risk it is. I was going to put it here but as my conclusions may be tainted by my opinions it is better that you do the research yourself but fi you would like some pointers I am more than willing to give you some links to draw your own conclusions from.

For example social distancing is based on absolutely NO scientific evidence whatsoever and certainly no research from the 1930s. Professor Robert Dingwall, who is a member of NERVTAG, admitted it was “conjured out of nowhere”. It will be interesting how to justify any social distancing measure as part of a risk assessment when there is no evidence whatsoever that as a “safety measure” it actually has any effect on keeping people “safe”.

To protect themselves from a virus virologists wear full containment suits that are pressurised, use an independent air supply that is filtered and sterilised, undergo full decontamination procedures when taking off the protective suit and undergo years of training on how to use the PPE.

Do you really think staying a little bit apart from others, standing behind a small perspex screen, wearing a “face covering”, using a face shield, not using cash (and of which there has not been 1 single case of the virus being caught from cash so far worldwide) and using a hand sanitiser will protect anyone from a virus that is so small it has not actually been isolated and proved to exist yet using the Koch postulates?

Karys Mullis, the inventor of the PCR test for antibodies which is being used to justify “new cases” and a 2nd wave, has stated openly on it’s unsuitability for use during epidemics and pandemics to prove someone is actually suffering from the illness and of it’s abuse by Governments to justify their agendas. False science and again not valid for a risk assessment.

Once again, thank you for your letter, it was most enlightening.”

44846 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #954 of 1906 🔗

Brilliant. Reading and re-reading. Very helpful correspondence.

44905 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 2, #955 of 1906 🔗

Feel free to plagarise.

44847 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #956 of 1906 🔗

More power to your elbow, AG !

44980 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #957 of 1906 🔗

Awesome AG!

45099 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, #958 of 1906 🔗

Well said!!!

45015 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #959 of 1906 🔗

I doubt if they’ll have the intelligence to follow your arguments.

44836 Herman the German, replying to Herman the German, 24, #960 of 1906 🔗

Once again Hello from cloudy Northern Germany,

I am a subscriber to a blog called infekt.ch, a Swiss based medical site. One of the most renowned and accomplished doctors on Switzerland, Dr. Pietro Vernazza every once in a while sends out interesting information and new findings.
Yesterday he talked about a representative serological study in Tessin, showing that about 10% of tested persons had had the virus in the past. None of them knew of it, none of them had gone to the doctor, only a few showed mild symptoms that they thought was a mild cold the most. He said that similar studies around the world point towards the same direction: the real number of cases is about 10 times higher than the officially registered number.
OK, I can almost picture you sitting there yawning, since this is pretty much common knowledge to the readers of this site…
I just found his conclusions from that very interesting and a 100% comprehendable.

Since the approach of dealing with the pandemic seems to be containment and prevention (although, at least in Germany, never been announced like that officially), we have to ask if this is really feasible.If for every case we find and throw into quarantine, plus people he/she (lets pretend to be gender correct here…) might have been in contact with lately, there are 10 other cases, undetected, then containment simply cannot work like that.Instead of focusing on preventing the spread in general, we have to to focus on preventing it from spreading to people that are vulnerable (I know, easier said than done).

Also, this whole second wave talk is stupid, since we now simply find more cases, maybe instead of 1 out of 10, we find 3-4 out of ten. But the epidemiological situation is the same, because these cases would have been there before already.

I found he made it nicely clear and easier to put things into perspective.

44871 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Herman the German, 8, #961 of 1906 🔗

And another aspect of this is that, apparently, the PCR test which is supposed to tell whether you have the virus now, can’t distinguish between a person with the live infection and the remains of dead virus fragments up a recovered person’s nose. You couldn’t make this stuff up.

44880 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #962 of 1906 🔗

How ridiculous what is the point of it then. They cannot tell if you are infected or not!

44887 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #963 of 1906 🔗

And in finding all these people who test positive they have to come up with a way to explain how it’s spreading…

Asymptomatic spreaders.

Because all these people testing positive must be spreading it around right?

44913 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #964 of 1906 🔗

That has been the case since it was invented, our illustrious leaders just used it otherwise to suit their own agenda.

44997 ▶▶▶ Mike Collins, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #965 of 1906 🔗

Not only can it not distinguish the difference, more importantly the test inventor said it was not suitable for diagnosis and it’s use in such cases was unscientific. Makes a mockery of the whole process.

44907 ▶▶ Mario, replying to Herman the German, 6, #966 of 1906 🔗

At this point in time we can, I think, safely dismiss the virus as a reason for anything. This is something else entirely. The virus is like a McGuffin in a movie, just keeping a plot running, but by itself irrelevant.

44840 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 21, #967 of 1906 🔗

So, we’re being encouraged to get out and about, are we?

How about we re-introduce lockdown in all but name, but ONLY with regard to those businesses who slavishly stick to the antisocial distancing and muzzling rules?

Ring ahead. Ask them their policy. Take a name. Tell them yours (lie if you feel uncomfortable). Tell them you will be round in the next few hours, ready to hold them to their promises.

Their promises = I will not enforce antisocial distancing and I will not force you to muzzle yourself.

Anything less, tell them in no uncertain terms that you will be ignoring their business until they change their minds. And no amount of free money will make you change yours.

44904 ▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Farinances, 6, #968 of 1906 🔗

I’ve said it in the past but it bears repeating: Toby should replace the now irrelevant list of places that have opened up with a list of shops who’ve rejected the new abnormal

44915 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Digital Nomad, 7, #969 of 1906 🔗

Yes, indeed! Now I know there’s no actual legal basis for social distancing nonsense, I’d be happy to add a few places

44917 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 5, #970 of 1906 🔗

Both to good and naughty list

45100 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 3, #971 of 1906 🔗

We probably should have a list of shops, pubs, restaurants and visitor attractions to boycott.

44843 Wickwar Bob, replying to Wickwar Bob, 32, #972 of 1906 🔗

I thought I’d pay a vist to my local on Monday evening. Probably won’t be going back in a hurry.

They’ve put the most absurd one way system in place under which one must enter ONLY through the front door. The toilets cannot be accessed from inside because the entrace is directly opposite the bar. Instead, one has to walk past this entrance, go out the back door, walk along the side of the pub, and reach the toilets from a side entrance. Once you’ve spent a penny, you must continue to walk along the side of the pub to the front door.

If one fancies a smoke on the terrace at the rear of the pub, you CANNOT reenter the pub via the back door from which you went out. Instead, you have to walk all the way along the side of the pub and reenter via the front door. This applies even when the the pub is virtually empty, and you could walk straight back to your seat without coming within 20 feet of the nearest soul.

Don’t even think about ordering from the bar, even though there’s a 1.5m thick wooden barrier between you and the server (appropriately anough, this barrier’s called a “bar”). Instead they’ll bring your pint to your table and stand right next to you in the process.

I imagine these changes are saving countless lives.

44851 ▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to Wickwar Bob, 9, #973 of 1906 🔗

Oh yes, I forgot to mention, I forked out 15 quid for this experience.

44855 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Wickwar Bob, 2, #974 of 1906 🔗

How many pints did that buy you?

44860 ▶▶▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #975 of 1906 🔗

Four. Maybe I should have left after the first (perhaps I’m the stupid one!). But I’ve been deprived of my favourite tipple for over three months, and I so wanted it to feel normal!

44879 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Wickwar Bob, 6, #976 of 1906 🔗

Oh to feel normal again! Yes I can understand that. 3.75 per pint is a bit steep but as you haven’t been in a pub for 3 months so it’s understandable. I fear everyone will increase their prices using the virus as an excuse.

44916 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #977 of 1906 🔗

£3.75 per pint is a bit steep? Jesus, I was up in Kingston in Feb. and paid £5.60 for a pint of of San Miguel. Ales (the 2 they had) were cheaper, but not much! I live in the countryside though, Doom is £3.60 which I find reasonable.

44920 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to HaylingDave, 1, #978 of 1906 🔗

How much is Gloom?

44930 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to IanE, 6, #979 of 1906 🔗

Gloom is free and plentiful – http://www.bbc.co.uk

45090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to HaylingDave, #980 of 1906 🔗

Oh well, cheaper than Doom, then!

44984 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #981 of 1906 🔗

Not an excuse. They’ve had all the stupid equipment to buy and reduced footfall is going to make it hard to cover staff wages. Price increase was probably inevitable.

45156 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella Donna, #982 of 1906 🔗

Jeez, which part of the country you in? £4.60 here before the lockdown.

45155 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Wickwar Bob, #983 of 1906 🔗

How’d that work out? Feeling normal? (Rhetorical question.)

44983 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Wickwar Bob, 3, #984 of 1906 🔗

Wow! I can get three bottles of organic wine for that!

44853 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Wickwar Bob, 3, #985 of 1906 🔗

Oh FGS what a palaver. We haven’t been to our favourite pub because we’ve learnt its a wine bar at the moment until things return to normal (will that ever happen?) so we continue to drink at home until we discover a sensible pub.

44865 ▶▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #986 of 1906 🔗

I don’t blame you. I’m looking to move home in the near future, so maybe I’ll target areas with a Marston’s boozer nearby. By all accounts they’ve rejected this painful ‘new normal’ nonsense.

44872 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Wickwar Bob, 2, #987 of 1906 🔗

That’s good to know thanks. We’ve just been lookibg at another favourite it’s a microbrewery but theyve turned the carpark into a drinking area and double yellow lines all around which means parking a mile away and walking to it! You have to be desperate don’t you?

44881 ▶▶▶▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #988 of 1906 🔗

Indeed! I hate to say it, but I’ve been quite content binge watching Netflix with shop-bought beere costing less than half the price of a pint. If these bonkers restrictions linger into the autumn and winter, I fear it could be the final nail in the coffin for Britain’s pubs.

44921 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Wickwar Bob, 1, #989 of 1906 🔗

Well, at least the stamp duty temporary cancellation (up to 500k, admittedly) should help!

45000 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Wickwar Bob, 1, #990 of 1906 🔗

I’m not sure of that anymore. I saw a more recent interview with the head of the company and he was sounding a lot more compliant. I suspect he’s been nobbled.

45153 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Chicot, #991 of 1906 🔗

I thought he was rash to speak out. Should have just quietly got on with it instead!

44868 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 12, #992 of 1906 🔗

The BBC/Sky et al have yet to update their information on social distancing or gatherings in public as far as I have seen, as the law changed on Saturday so now gatherings of up to 30 are allowed. Also, of course social distancing is still guidance so no obligation to follow it in groups of 30 anywhere you might choose to gather.

The end of this article also points out a disconcerting new addition to the ever-changing and increasingly complicated law.

“It is interesting to note that the No. 2 regulations introduce an important and wide ranging power for the Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, to direct that public areas must be closed where and when he considers it necessary (e.g. specifics beaches or parks, or even all beaches and parks). That power has not yet been exercised yet, since Leicester is being shut down under separate regulations.”

I’m not sure I like the sound of that, seems like simply more power being kept over us and increased ability to clamp down without proper scrutiny.

http://laworfiction.com/2020/07/lockdown-laws-in-england-have-been-revoked/

44883 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Youth_Unheard, 14, #993 of 1906 🔗

This was done in response to Simon Dolan’s case, IMHO.

They needed to relax the rules in order not to fall foul of the law, making sure there was technically no reason for Simon’s judicial review to be permitted. Hence all the comments from defence and judge– “we can’t judge the case on previous regulations, only on current regulations”. So they quickly made these new relaxed regulations current, didn’t they.

44955 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 6, #994 of 1906 🔗

Nonetheless, that Hancock can randomly shut anywhere on a whim, is a *very* dangerous development.. If he gets wind of any event or protest he doesn’t like the sound of, he can just immediately shut it down..

44968 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 4, #995 of 1906 🔗

Again a way of getting around the actual law by allowing response by diktat. Basically what they’ve done from the beginning, mostly. The concentration in the hands of Handjob in particular however is concerning

44974 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 2, #996 of 1906 🔗

..especially because of his links to Gates, amongst others..

The government are becoming more and more underhand, now that they know people like Simon will challenge them in the courts.

45148 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #997 of 1906 🔗

Good to know!!
We need to spread the word.

45152 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #998 of 1906 🔗

Parliament has no say – very worrying indeed. Hancock is far too powerful, and remember that he is in the pocket of Bill Gates..

44889 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #999 of 1906 🔗

No 10 must promote face mask use more forcefully, experts warn
Criticism comes as government launches public information campaign amid low takeup

Prof Susan Michie, a psychologist on a subgroup of Sage and also member of Independent Sage, said on Tuesday: “It’s becoming increasingly clear that face masks are needed and warranted, particularly in indoor spaces. And I think we really need to begin thinking about how we achieve that given there’s no cultural history and there’s no huge appetite from looking around at the British public at the moment.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/07/wear-face-masks–coverings-over-nose-and-mouth-stresses-no-10

44895 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Basics, 22, #1000 of 1906 🔗

Will no one rid me of these turbulent scientists?

44908 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 9, #1001 of 1906 🔗

Michie is a piece of filth.

44954 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 10, #1002 of 1906 🔗

More in-depth comments waiting moderation but a bit about Susan Michie:

Susan Michie is Professor of Health Psychology and Director of the Centre for Behaviour Change at UCL. Susan’s research focuses on developing the science of behaviour change interventions and applying behavioural science to interventions.
https://iris.ucl.ac.uk/iris/browse/profile?upi=SFMIC21
Another leftie bought and paid for champagne socialist.

44910 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 6, #1003 of 1906 🔗

Here is Professor Susan Michie’s background, not exactly unbiased:

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/pals/people/susan-michie

Lots of links to Bill gates at UCL:

https://search2.ucl.ac.uk/s/search.html?query=bill+gates&collection=website-meta&profile=_website&tab=websites&sumbit=Go

And this snippet from wikipedia – citation needed :

Michie was married from 1981 to 1997 to the trade union official Andrew Murray and has three children, including Laura Murray, a former close aide to Jeremy Corbyn and appointed head of complaints at the Labour Party in April 2019. [14]

Michie has served as a national executive committee member and president of the London Region of the trade union MSF . She is a member of the Communist Party of Britain (CPB), but has donated to the Labour Party [15] under the Corbyn leadership. In March 2018, Michie, described as a leading member of the CPB, said that the party would no longer stand against Labour in general elections and CPB members should be “working full tilt” for the election of Corbyn as prime minister. [16] [17]

And these classics:

Susan Michie is Professor of Health Psychology and Director of the Centre for Behaviour Change at UCL. Susan’s research focuses on developing the science of behaviour change interventions and applying behavioural science to interventions.

https://iris.ucl.ac.uk/iris/browse/profile?upi=SFMIC21

Another leftie bought and paid for champagne socialist.

45101 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1004 of 1906 🔗

Why is it that all roads seem to lead back to Bill Gates??

45147 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1005 of 1906 🔗

Because BG is mega-rich and has bought everyone off..
He’s also power-crazy..

45143 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #1006 of 1906 🔗

Hand picked!

45207 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #1007 of 1906 🔗

Absolutely fascinating and even moreso now the guardian has pulled the page.

44911 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 27, #1008 of 1906 🔗

It’s becoming increasingly clear that face masks are needed and warranted, particularly in indoor spaces”

And her evidence for this is what, exactly?

There are many agendas here, wonder if one of them is something like – if we come out of lockdown and get back to normal, and there’s no second wave to speak of, people will be asking what the fuss was about, so if we make them all wear masks, forever, we can pretend that the masks are the reason why the dead bodies are not piling up, rather than the fact they overestimated the danger to start with. They’ll need to explain Sweden though.

44912 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 38, #1009 of 1906 🔗

No, we don’t have a ‘cultural history’ of strapping nappies to our faces.

You expect us to apologise for this? ‘Mend our ways’? Suddenly start regarding our own human breath as a noxious chemical?

These people disgust me.

44933 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Farinances, 20, #1010 of 1906 🔗

Disgust is the correct response. There is something profoundly anti-human and contemptuous about them. In earlier times, I can imagine many of them would have been members of some particularly austere religious sect.

45075 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to MDH, 6, #1011 of 1906 🔗

more likely the Spanish Inquisition.

45073 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, 12, #1012 of 1906 🔗

Yes, and we MUST refuse to wear them. MUST MUST MUST.

45085 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 6, #1013 of 1906 🔗

Seen the BBC article on Rishi’s vouchers? If not, have a guess at the accompanying picture……?

Yes, you guessed right – a group of people at a meal table, wearing masks..

Clear agenda…softening people up to accept the next rule…

45150 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, 3, #1014 of 1906 🔗

What the fuck are they doing wearing masks at a meal table?

45151 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, 1, #1015 of 1906 🔗

Promoting the government’s agenda!

44957 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Basics, 11, #1016 of 1906 🔗

I have seen so many comments like this one in articles and elsewhere: “It is becoming increasingly clear.” Nobody cites to anything, of course, because there is no new information. It is becoming increasingly popular , and that is a different thing. As I recall, that was the key aspect of what both the UK and the US really understood about governance… you don’t force something just because it’s popular.

44964 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RyanM, 2, #1017 of 1906 🔗

5…..4…..3…..2…

45034 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #1018 of 1906 🔗

I don’t know who liked this… but I was waiting for the inevitable remoaner brexit comment lol

45037 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #1019 of 1906 🔗

(I failed. Apologies for underestimating you all)

44995 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RyanM, 8, #1020 of 1906 🔗

Notice the reason the behavioural scientist (brainwasher) is spewing forth. They have a problem. People are not buying and are culturally adverse. This is good.

We are adverse to altering our evolved over millions of years pbysiology to breath through a rag because some rich pointless evil people think they have a right to force us.

And yes, citation to fuck all science. But minchie is about manipulation so isnt in a place to know the difference between reason and force. Her job is to manipulate, employed to manipulate on whose behalf?

45003 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 11, #1021 of 1906 🔗

Rant warning for the undecided lurker!

Just to add.. I’m a nobody, nothing special, no wealth of reading behind me. But this site is really teaching me something. By the amazing knowledge here it’s becoming very clear a normal average person can spot the seriously rotten expert apples very easily.

Do not be awed by these suited journalists and experts*. They are gobby little wastes of resources who good, normal, average, extraordinary people have the right to look down on.

*Always exceptions.

Anyone telling you what to do ot think, ask them why. If it’s not reasonable to you then decide for yourself what the correct response should be. Snap out of believing these suits simply because they appear confident. Anyone of them could beat me down in conversation, but I still know they are rotten.

It’s a con(fidence) trick.

45040 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to RyanM, 5, #1022 of 1906 🔗

Yes. I remember seeing the creepy Roger Hallam of Extinction Rebellion getting a full half hour on BBC’s Hardtalk. One of his opening lines was “People are beginning to realise…etc” No facts, no science, nothing.

44986 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Basics, -8, #1023 of 1906 🔗

Fuck off

44989 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 8, #1024 of 1906 🔗

What does a psychologist know about the spread of infection? Clearly a psy-op being rolled out bigtime.

44994 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1025 of 1906 🔗

We created a whole bunch of fake degrees and have made fun of them… what are you going to do with a ph.d in “behavioral change science?” Well, now we know. This is what you do.

45078 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to RyanM, 4, #1026 of 1906 🔗

You can follow it up with a post-doc in Whiteness Studies.

45126 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, 3, #1027 of 1906 🔗

‘it is becoming increasingly clear that face masks are needed.’ No it’s not. part from anything else this is now a war on the disabled. i thought that was illegal.

45206 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #1028 of 1906 🔗

PLEASE BEAWARE IT APPEARS THE GUARDIAN HAVE REMOVED ARTICLE I LINKED TO. Others on the site did read it as the comments show.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/07/wear-face-masks–coverings-over-nose-and-mouth-stresses-no-10

404 the page doesn’t exist. Many a possibke reason but I would say it was a moment the truth slipped out. 77th Brigade perhaps or 13th Signals may have realised how transparent the behavioural science is becoming.

-If you can access the linked story please let others know-

44893 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 18, #1029 of 1906 🔗

Cricketers taking the knee. After all the publicity about BLM being Marxist, wanting to defund the police, destroy capitalism, the traditional family etc etc. What is wrong with these people?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cricket/2020/07/08/england-vs-west-indies-first-test-day-one-live-score-latest/

44896 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike Smith, 10, #1030 of 1906 🔗

I suspect a lot of them just go along with “it’s an antiracism message” and don’t look into the political aims of the BLM organisation. Those of us who take an interest are aware of “all the publicity” but I am constantly surprised at how unaware politically many people are.

44897 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mike Smith, 11, #1031 of 1906 🔗

Stick a fork in me as I’m done. No more cricket for me.

44899 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to stefarm, 11, #1032 of 1906 🔗

I used to love watching sport but there’s too much hypocrisy and politics in it now, not going to bother with it any more. Better to go out and do it instead.

44902 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 3, #1033 of 1906 🔗

As I was told years ago – sport is like masturbation, it is better to participate than spectate.

44909 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1034 of 1906 🔗

If you open your eyes you can do both.

Exit stage left.

44936 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 3, #1035 of 1906 🔗

Me neither. I said a few weeks ago, when someone mentioned about the ball being a vector of disease (or some other such crap), whether that would have bothered the likes of Lillee and Botham. I can’t imagine that they would have kowtowed to this nonsense either …

45006 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to kh1485, 1, #1036 of 1906 🔗

With Lillee is was likely to be a vector to a broken nose

45046 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to stefarm, 4, #1037 of 1906 🔗

This is the latest crap our club has been sent

45048 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1038 of 1906 🔗

Fuck me, I’m speechless…no really, I am.

45049 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1039 of 1906 🔗

So does this mean that by taking a catch, a fielder, who is closer than a metre from a team-mate, will simply leave the ball? A nd how exactly will they have the time to assess this? This is just bonkers …

45054 ▶▶▶▶ Bill Hickling, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1040 of 1906 🔗

“Batters”. WTF are they?

45141 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bill Hickling, 1, #1041 of 1906 🔗

The people who created the poster are certainly batty.

45129 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1042 of 1906 🔗

The last one of making sure runs are taken observing 2m is beyond patronising and insane.

Just when I thought things couldn’t get any more bizarre and nanny state-ish, the unelected in your face permanent political class outdo themselves.

44906 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #1043 of 1906 🔗

Fuck ’em. Why is it safe for some to play, but all ?

44918 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Mike Smith, 8, #1044 of 1906 🔗

Its the clenched fist I find offensive

44919 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 5, #1045 of 1906 🔗

They are virtue-signalling bottom feeders. I see even the bastard umpire was making a fool of himself.

44946 ▶▶ John, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #1046 of 1906 🔗

You don’t need blm to destroy capitalism: the government is doing it for them.

44898 Julian, replying to Julian, 9, #1047 of 1906 🔗

Simon Dolan managed to get a piece in The Independent.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lockdown-coronavirus-legal-challenge-judicial-review-boris-johnson-matt-hancock-a9607446.html

The comments are not very favourable so far. You can register for free and comment, scope for some sceptics to show support for Dolan.

44914 ▶▶ Alice, replying to Julian, 6, #1048 of 1906 🔗

“The judge concluded that there is an arguable case against restrictions imposed on communal prayers at mosques and Roman Catholic churches, which may be an interference with the freedom of religion .”
Why mosques and RC churches only? Other churches also have communal prayers.

44934 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Alice, #1049 of 1906 🔗

Maybe he’s a Catholic?

44940 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Alice, #1050 of 1906 🔗

It reflects the interests of the parties to the action.

44948 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Alice, 1, #1051 of 1906 🔗

Exactly – no reason for only 2 religions/denominations to have that right.. All judges have to be signed up to ‘diversity’, and no one dare challenge Muslims, hence that comment, but nonetheless all churches should be free to open..

44970 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 8, #1052 of 1906 🔗

They should never have closed.

44971 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 1, #1053 of 1906 🔗

I agree!

44999 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Alice, 3, #1054 of 1906 🔗

Isn’t the Queen the head of the Church of England? Therefore she (and therefore the government who act in her name) has the power to shut it down. But she isn’t the head of the Roman church or of Islam (which doesn’t have a church). I don’t know if this is the reason but am just speculating.

These are the sort of constitutional niceties that haven’t been an issue for hundreds of years.

44949 ▶▶ gina, replying to Julian, 1, #1055 of 1906 🔗

Also could join Keep Britain Free, the pressure group he’s set up, and show support that way.

44900 Alice, replying to Alice, 10, #1056 of 1906 🔗

We need more headlines like this:
https://conservativewoman.co.uk/why-lockdown-is-useless-the-case-for-the-prosecution/
There are some good comments as well.
Unfortunately, this isn’t mainstream media..

44972 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Alice, #1057 of 1906 🔗

Good spot Annie! These things are clogging up my links list, but all useful ammo. :o))

45012 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, #1058 of 1906 🔗

Not me! A good spot by Alice.

45043 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, #1059 of 1906 🔗

I must be getting dyslexic in my old age. Sorry. Must be time for my horlicks…

45042 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Alice, #1060 of 1906 🔗

Good spot Alice. 👌

45137 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Alice, 1, #1061 of 1906 🔗

In the comments:
The worthless Head of the Royal Society, an Indian, has been trying to say that people not wearing masks in future should be treated like drink drivers. For that, he should be told to go home to where his ancestors came from within 28 days.

Good grief! I thought the Torygraph was bad!

Excellent article however.

45138 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1062 of 1906 🔗

They get worse!

Stay in. Spend nothing. Lets hope enough get unemployed that the government have to cut pay and the hapless realise they have to get off their backsides and fight or accept slave labour rates.

44923 James007, replying to James007, 10, #1063 of 1906 🔗

There is inconsistency across the country about reopening children’s play areas. The default position seems to be is for them to remain closed, unless the local authority has actively decided to open them.
Our authority has been very good. They seem to be mainly open now.
Some are partially open. One play area near us, following a Covid risk assessment, have introduced strange additional measures. They have chained up every second swing, and put up notices that regions of the play area should only be used by one household at a time. (Obviously this restriction is ignored. It’s a bit much to avoid a large climbing frame because a single child from another family is on it!)

According to some in the “usforthem” network, some authorities are waiting to decide whether hand sanitizer points need to be installed before they can be opened.
Leaving aside the fact that children should learn about hygiene and hand washing anyway, this policy doesnt make a lot of sense.
Anyway some progress at least, but I feel for those stuck at home with socially distanced children, with no where to take them.

45021 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to James007, 1, #1064 of 1906 🔗

The difference between councils will depend on their size, respective insurers and H&S people. Bigger ones may have contracted out all parks management to big companies like Sodexo, who appear to be have taken a relatively relaxed line; 3rd tier parish councils, possibly with only a Clerk as paid staff, are having more difficulty satisfying insurers’ requirements with existing staff and budgets. They have kicked up a fuss about the ‘unworkable’ guidance on govt’s website, and many will probably now open up, on the grounds that it’s the parents’ responsibility, not theirs, to see that children wash hands etc.

44937 Albie, replying to Albie, 19, #1065 of 1906 🔗

This second wave that all the cryarsing, doomongering, lock-us-up forever armchair epidemiologists were predicting would hit a fortnight after Bournemouth….yeah that second wave… well where is it?!

44942 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Albie, 8, #1066 of 1906 🔗

A good one to remind people of. No sign of it.

It has gone to fetch a pot of striped paint, long wait, left handed screwdriver…

45039 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 4, #1067 of 1906 🔗

Nope, it’s having a long stand somewhere.

44950 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Albie, 7, #1068 of 1906 🔗

Someone below posted a WSJ article, and I mentioned that the comments were “depressing as fuck.” I saw more than one where somebody said that “covid 19 is ravaging uncontrolled in the US right now.” To hear it, bodies are lining the streets… If there is no actual second wave, we’ll damned sure pretend there is one!

44962 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RyanM, 14, #1069 of 1906 🔗

I do find it very curious that people are so willing, almost enthusiastic, to accept what must seem like terrible news to them. I mean, what’s happening is terrible either way – either we’re going to live in a shit world forever or we’re all going to die of covid-19. So you’d think people would find that a bit worrying or depressing and maybe think about it and look into it for themselves, to verify it’s really true, because if it is then that’s pretty sad.

But no, a lot of people seem to think this is a game. My experience of existence must be very different from those people. Baffles me.

Some of the comments under Dolan’s article were pretty depressing too – oh, he can’t wait a bit longer before having a pint, typical businessman, profit before lives. Stuff a teenager would be ashamed of spouting.

44967 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, #1070 of 1906 🔗

“Stuff a teenager would be ashamed of spouting.”

Are you sure they’re not?

44982 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 2, #1071 of 1906 🔗

I’m hoping most teenagers have better things to do – most round my way are busy drinking and snogging on the common.

45068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 2, #1072 of 1906 🔗

Good for them!

44975 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, 3, #1073 of 1906 🔗

It’s cognitive dissonance. People can’t process 2 contradictory beliefs, it makes them uncomfortable so the default is to revert to their original belief and ignore the contradictory position.

44985 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, #1074 of 1906 🔗

You’d think the desire to believe the news isn’t as bad as you have been told would override that.

45009 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1075 of 1906 🔗

No, the solution is doublethink: holding two contradictory beliefs simultaneously, knowing them to be contradictory and believing both. It takes a bit of training, but our zombies have learned quickly.

44993 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Julian, 13, #1076 of 1906 🔗

People I’ve talked to have basically had the attitude “just do it so that we can open up.” I’m somewhat flabbergasted by that. Essentially, you obey so that you can earn more privileges – they will acknowledge that the mask thing is likely pointless, but you need to obey or you’ll be locked down again. We are amazingly pliant. Yet, the minute you start drawing comparisons to Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany, you’re being a crazy right-winger. This idea that history is important because human nature doesn’t really ever change is one that is completely absent today.

45114 ▶▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to RyanM, 4, #1077 of 1906 🔗

This idea that history is important because human nature doesn’t really ever change is one that is completely absent today.’

It is absent, you are right. Modern students simply do not believe that they would act as the Nazis did, for example. You can quote the Zimbardo experiment, even show them clips from it, – it makes no difference. They are wrapped in a bubble of virtue and tolerance, despite knowing about the violence perpetrated by BLM supporters.

45269 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Judith Day, 1, #1078 of 1906 🔗

Tolerance? They don’t tolerate free thinking or honesty or open debate or any challenge to their own ferocious prejudices.It’s time their bubble burst.

44959 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Albie, 9, #1079 of 1906 🔗

It should be hitting …… tomorrow.

Just you wait and see…..

……All the ridiculous headlines trying to manufacture something out of nothing. That wave of bullshit will be the only wave of anything we’ll be getting.

44965 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Farinances, 9, #1080 of 1906 🔗

It only exists online. Comments on facebook/twitter/every news article… everyone is absolutely certain that this thing is just raging out of control. Of course, none of these people are sick or know anyone who is, but it’s surely ravaging. Step outside and apart from all the idiots with their faces covered, you’ll be hard pressed to find this black death.

45005 ▶▶ annie, replying to Albie, 5, #1081 of 1906 🔗

According to the doubleplusgood duckspeaker I met on Monday, it’s coming soon to Wales. Because of all the English idiots who were drinking over the weekend.

44941 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 25, #1082 of 1906 🔗

They won’t put up with it in Serbia! From the DT:

“Serbia’s president has backtracked on his plans to reinstate a coronavirus lockdown in Belgrade after thousands protested [against] the move and clashed with the police in the capital…”

44943 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1083 of 1906 🔗

Someone posted a link lower down with video footage. The protestors were going for it.

44956 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, 12, #1084 of 1906 🔗

Another country for the emigration list.

44960 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, 7, #1085 of 1906 🔗

Good for them! We’d better get organised :o))

44988 steve, replying to steve, 25, #1086 of 1906 🔗

“ Those young and healthy people who currently walk around with a mask on their faces would be better off wearing a helmet instead, because the risk of something falling on their head is greater than that of getting a serious case of Covid-19.”

The author, Beda M Stadler is the former director of the Institute for Immunology at the University of Bern, a biologist and professor emeritus. Stadler is an important medical professional in Switzerland

https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809

44996 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to steve, 12, #1087 of 1906 🔗

But they might pass it on being asymptomatic to someone who will pass it on to their shopkeeper who will pass it on to the next customer who will pass it on to the bus driver who will pass it on to their mum who might end up in hospital and die!!!!!!! How could young people in all good conscience live with themselves knowing that a person has died today? People don’t die if you can help it!!!

45035 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Youth_Unheard, 5, #1088 of 1906 🔗

In other words: Just the same as drunk driving…

45069 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Youth_Unheard, 8, #1089 of 1906 🔗

Funny though that they don’t care about the rather large number of excess cancer deaths (and others of course) coming down the road!

45204 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to IanE, 1, #1090 of 1906 🔗

It seems to be a strange state of affairs where we simultaneously ignore the past and also the future, instead living entirely in the present moment.

44991 John P, replying to John P, 10, #1091 of 1906 🔗

I received an e-mail from a potential new client today. He wanted me to meet him at his house for a discussion and “for our safety wear masks and observe social distancing protocols.” (I paraphrase him).

I politely declined. (I have always to be nice to my clients and potential new clients.)

I did point out to him that most of my clients I don’t actually meet in person and when I do meet them for the first time, I prefer to meet them at a neutral location.

I suppose we will have to see now how keen he is to employ me.

Elsewhere, one of my sisters has been sending me the location of another testing centre they have opened up in Leicester. Still in that 12 o’clock to 4 o’clock zone, though further out than the seven of (previously) eight clustered together in the sweatshop zone.

She suggested cheerily that I get tested. Rather than risking our relationship by telling her what I thought of that idea, I decided instead to send her a link to a tv programme I found the other day on youtube that was on when I was a young child.

“Vision On” was wonderful, it all came back to me again. There were lots of little quirky animated sequences set to music in it and it also featured Tony Hart’s genius. Anyone interested should google it.

I noticed below someone talking about Stingray. I wonder if I am not alone in wishing to escape from this insanity and go back to my childhood …

45002 ▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 1, #1092 of 1906 🔗

I loved Stingray. And Fireball XL5. And Virgil Tracy was my pin-up.
Funny how puppets come out more intelligent than humano-zombies.

45011 ▶▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to annie, 2, #1093 of 1906 🔗

Scott was my hero. Always seemed to be front-and-centre in Thunderbird 1. John got the short straw, stuck out there in space.

45029 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to annie, 4, #1094 of 1906 🔗

Brains: he always struck me as a very good scientist. He isn’t on SAGE though.

45064 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Cambridge N, 4, #1095 of 1906 🔗

Yes – his nickname explains why!

45130 ▶▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to annie, 1, #1096 of 1906 🔗

Captain Scarlet was best.

Although Captain Black was the most engaging. Always looked like he was nursing a monumental hangover after a rough night in a brothel.

45254 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to GetaGrip, #1097 of 1906 🔗

Supercar ! It was the marvel of the age.

I always liked Friend Zarin

45027 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to John P, 14, #1098 of 1906 🔗

Sadly if we cant turn this around our children aren’t even going to have a childhood worth going back too. If history is ever permitted to be accurately recorded in the future we will be rightfully known as the most worthless and pathetic population to have inhabited these islands for many centuries.

45065 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #1099 of 1906 🔗

With the most appallingly self-destructive government ever!

45072 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to IanE, 3, #1100 of 1906 🔗

US-destructive.

45016 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1101 of 1906 🔗

An interesting snippet from The Telegraph “coronavirus live feed”:

A new paper published in the scientific journal Nature has analysed the demographic and lifestyle data of 17 million people with Covid-19 to highlight trends in the patients that eventually die from the disease.
The data shows patients are more likely to die after contracting the disease if they are:
male
older
black or South Asian
more economically deprived
an asthma or diabetes patient
a non-smoker
The researchers concluded there was unlikely to be a causal relationship between smoking and lower risk, and attributed the effect to other factors.
But “any increased risk with current smoking is likely to be small,” they wrote.
The results support the findings of previous studies, including a Public Health England report, that showed BAME patients were at higher risk than white patients.
The study analysed the disease in 17,278,392 adults, and examined 10,926 Covid-related deaths.
It is the biggest study of its kind.

Note the number of people they’ve (apparently) studied – 17 million. According to Wikipedia, the total world cases at the moment is fewer than 12 million:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic

So what’s going on here? Interesting point about the non-smokers. There was some state propaganda from the NHS on the TV last week stating that (paraphrased) “if you’re a smoker you’re more likely to die of COVID-19….so stop smoking.” So they were lying then?

45020 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1102 of 1906 🔗

From what I’ve seen, it seems to be the case that you are indeed more likely to die from it if you do catch it, but much less likely to catch it in the first place. Or possibly that you’re less likely to develop a severe case, but if you do, you’re in trouble.

Basically, disproportionately fewer smokers end up being hospitalised with it, but those that do don’t end up doing very well.

45062 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to matt, #1103 of 1906 🔗

Yes, not so much lying as being deliberately misleading!

45025 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1104 of 1906 🔗

We’re all going to be more economically deprived after the last 4 months…

45122 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1105 of 1906 🔗

Nature is such a mendacious rag!

45019 Tom Blackburn, #1106 of 1906 🔗
45022 Biker, replying to Biker, 26, #1107 of 1906 🔗

i was gonna join Twitter and tell Sturgeon that i don’t agree with her despotic sanctions of my human rights but it turns out you’ve to give a phone number, fuck that. I don’t use mobile phones for a number of reasons including brain cancer and walking around with a surveillance device in my bloody pocket. I did have a read of some of her fans and they’re on there showing off their tartan masks and lying how wonderful they are. It’ sickening beyond words. I feel so angry about it and i’m the most mild mannered giant you ever met but these fuckers are sleepwalking into the fascist state and i don’t know how to stop them.

45086 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Biker, 1, #1108 of 1906 🔗

Are you sure about that? I made a very quick account on Twitter recently just so I could take on the Covid bedwetters on there and I don’t remember having to give a phone number. I suppose it could be something they’ve added very recently.

45120 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Chicot, 1, #1109 of 1906 🔗

Surely most people do twitter by phone, so it makes sense.

45185 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Biker, 1, #1110 of 1906 🔗

Yes it’s annoying, without a Twitter account I could just click on a link and see what the person was referring to. But now I signed up to follow someone, the next time you click on a link, you have to input a phone number. Which I won’t. And I don’t have a burner phone. So now I can’t see ANYTHING! Will try to see if I can shut the account down, wish me luck with that…

45203 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Biker, 4, #1111 of 1906 🔗

Her mask suits her to a tee

45263 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1112 of 1906 🔗

They do share a propensity to nod their heads in a self-righteous manner when exercising their demogoguery.

45246 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Biker, #1113 of 1906 🔗

Don’t think you need a phone number. I just created a Yahoo email account and then created a Twitter account with that. It’s possible you may need a mobile number to create the Yahoo account.

You can definitely create a Gmail account without a phone number because I created a new one yesterday specifically for use with YouTube.

45023 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1114 of 1906 🔗

Financial Times: Jeremy Hunt says Sage gave ‘wrong’ advice at start of pandemic.
https://www.ft.com/content/fe2442ce-ffc5-478b-b7b5-9240ccf2ffcf

45024 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1115 of 1906 🔗

Not about to subscribe… could you tell me which bit of the advice is supposed to have been wrong?

45028 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 6, #1116 of 1906 🔗

The general middle bit, the top, the bottom and both sides ircc.

45044 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 9, #1117 of 1906 🔗

Looking at an earlier speech from May, he says they treated it like flu and not like SARS, which is true up to a point, but then he goes on about test, track and trace. As Peter Hitchens is fond of pointing out, are viruses afraid of TTT? TTT only works if you can test everyone, all the time, and get most of them to isolate. And you have to do it forever. It’s impractical and there’s no exit from it.

45047 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 6, #1118 of 1906 🔗

But…. it is like flu and not like SARS!

45056 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Farinances, 1, #1119 of 1906 🔗

Agreed in so far as how dangerous it is

45106 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 1, #1120 of 1906 🔗

Aaaah ok, he’s being technical now is he. Shame he couldn’t do that when he was looking at the stats

45057 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 2, #1121 of 1906 🔗

Quite, Hunt is simply doing a Sturgeon (look at me, look at me; I’m really important and knowledgable!).

45074 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 1, #1122 of 1906 🔗

Suspected as much. Pointless.

45179 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, #1123 of 1906 🔗

Cancelled my subscription when Lionel Barber was awarded the Legion d’Honneur for services to the European debate a few months before the referendum!

45245 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1124 of 1906 🔗

“They modelled a herd immunity strategy. They modelled full lockdown. They did not model a Korean style test and trace — which turned out to be the best way of tackling coronavirus — and that wasn’t given to ministers as an option,” he said. “What is clear to me now is that the wrong scientific advice was given to ministers by Sage in the early part of the pandemic.”

45327 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1125 of 1906 🔗

When Jeremy Hunt was the Secretary of State for Health in 2016, the NHS conducted Exercise Cygnus, which concluded that in the event of a pandemic the NHS would be overwhelmed. Instead of increasing NHS capacity, the government drafted emergency legislation that became the Coronavirus Act 2020. Jeremy Hunt is one of the people who ought to be answering questions.

45050 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1126 of 1906 🔗

I don’t know much about economics, other than how to keep a roof over my head on a basic state pension.

In my ignorance, it seems to me that taxes are logically going to have to rise to pay for Rishi’s magic money trees.

So, please can someone explain to me how cutting stamp duty, at a time when people are about to become lucky if they can afford to live in a bedsit, let alone buy a house, is sound economic policy?

How, other than encouraging us to eat out in antisocially-distanced restaurants, is this going to get us back on our feet?

45051 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #1127 of 1906 🔗

Tokenism is all they have left.

(They have to throw us a few manky bones before the inevitable August emergency budget when they finally tell us how we’ll ACTUALLY be paying for this debacle)

45053 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1128 of 1906 🔗

It is certainly of questionable use, but, of course, if (a big if!) it helps recovery, it might help raise total tax take without necessarily increasing tax rates. Sometimes (courtesy of the so-called Laffer curve) reductions in tax rates can lead to increased total tax take – and, with overall UK taxation levels currently at very high values, there will be some scope for this, albeit I am highly dubious that stamp duty reduction is of much relevance. In any case, the situation is currently so dire economically that all it could do is slightly reduce the severity of the coming self-imposed (thanks so much, Boris) recession/depression!

45070 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to IanE, 1, #1129 of 1906 🔗

I wonder if this is a preliminary to a future budget forcing the elderly to contribute to their social care by selling their houses.

45146 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Bruno, #1130 of 1906 🔗

This is what already happens surely?

45192 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to The Spingler, #1131 of 1906 🔗

Sorry, should have been more explicit, at present not if surviving spouse is in residence, (or some relatives also count).

45253 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, #1132 of 1906 🔗

Sounds like a conspiracy theory …

45058 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1133 of 1906 🔗

Even local accountancy firm slightly taking the p***:
‘Eat Out to Help Out
This scheme will run throughout August. Everybody will be entitled to a 50% discount of up to £10 per head on their meal at any participating restaurant, café, pub or other ‘eligible food service establishment’…
The challenge for customers is going to be social distancing, but we suspect that human ingenuity will find a way – and there are some really good restaurants in Barnard Castle.’

45080 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bruno, 2, #1134 of 1906 🔗

Just watch out for badly dressed baldies with a manic look in their eyes!

45092 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bruno, 8, #1135 of 1906 🔗

‘Any participating restaurant’… What’s the betting that any establishment wishing to participate in Rishi’s grand new scheme, will have to sign up to certain government-laid-down rules, which will include the taking of people’s details as mandatory? And by some means such as QR code that means people cannot give false details…

Data-gathering by the back door, now they have realised that people will not willingly sign up to Track and Trace…

45059 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1136 of 1906 🔗

Boosting the number of sales transactions on existing bricks and mortar is a typical short-term sugar high used by governments to get through a rough patch. It will generate jobs and incomes for estate agents, solicitors, removal men, and through the inevitable purchases and alterations that come with turning someone else’s home into one’s own. But all this has to be paid for, out of the sums people borrow against their properties and which all have to be paid back eventually.

45089 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #1137 of 1906 🔗

A lot of the current theory is that government borrowing is so cheap that they can borrow and invest their way out of this, rather than having to raise taxes. It kind of works in theory, but it does assume that there isn’t going to be a sudden crash and that there isn’t going to be a significant increase in the cost of borrowing in the near term.

Looking at the detail of what was announced today, it looks to me like Sunak is massively underestimating the scale of the problem – or at least, the problem he’s trying to deal with is much smaller than the problem I think he actually needs to deal with. One of us will turn out to be wrong. Hopefully it’s me.

45095 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to matt, 3, #1138 of 1906 🔗

Sadly, my money is on your analysis!

45175 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to IanE, #1139 of 1906 🔗

Ditto!

45105 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #1140 of 1906 🔗

The cheap borrowing solution made perfect sense (to me) when John McDonnell suggested it last November, to pay for proposed infrastructure projects – but he was jeered at.

That was before Boris et al ground the existing economy to a complete halt for three months and put millions of jobs and businesses in jeopardy. I’m not so convinced about it as a solution now.

Re the stamp duty thing: What I can foresee is, yet again, people selling houses in the South to buy a house “up North”, from which to work from home, thereby forcing house prices up in the old deprived redwall areas and further increasing the haves/have-nots divide.

But as I said, I know nothing!

45180 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1141 of 1906 🔗

It’s possible, I suppose. The stamp duty holiday will do next-to-nothing for the housing market in London and surrounding areas – you’d be lucky to find a one bedroom flat for under 500k in most parts of London nowadays.

There are a few problems with the idea that lots of people will decamp to the north. The first is that it’s going to be many months, I’d guess, before there’s any certainty over what things are going to look like long term. It’s hard to decide to move more than an hour away from your office if it might turn out that you’re actually going to be expected to be there 3 days a week – the holiday will be over by then. The second is, what effect that might have on the “London weighting” assumed in your pay packet. You could live quite the life on a good London salary in Cumbria, but if your employer works that out and that means your salary is normalised, it’s less appealing. The third is connections. Even if you only have to go into the office once a month, you still don’t want to spend much more than an hour-and-a-half getting there. That takes you to… Newark(?) on the east coast mainline and I don’t think it quite gets you to Birmingham on the west coast Mainline. Flights are also a problem. We have one genuinely decent hub airport in the UK, and it’s west of London.

45414 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, #1142 of 1906 🔗

Government borrowing is not cheap, from the OBR website:

In our latest forecast , we expect public sector debt interest in 2019-20 to total £41.6 billion (reflecting £52.4 billion of gross debt interest payments and £10.9 billion netted off due to the APF). That would represent 4.9 per cent of total public spending or 1.9 per cent of national income.

That is money we pay to someone (Bank of England and others) for the privilege of them conjuring up money from thin air much like the science on social distancing.

45181 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 2, #1143 of 1906 🔗

I get scolded on other sites for being so gloomy in my economic outlook. Contributers love to jump in and tell me how wrong I am and why. My reply is always the same: “I hope you are right, but fear you are wrong.”

45210 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1144 of 1906 🔗

If it were genuinely possible to put the economy into suspended animation, we’d probably be OK. But it’s not and it never has been. If we had been able to push a button at the beginning of May, or even June and say “job done. As you were” we might have got away with it. But that didn’t happen. Absolutely every company is now either more heavily in debt than they were, or at best in a much, much worse cash position than they were. I can’t think of a sector that looks to be anywhere near back to normal in terms of trading conditions. I wish I could, but I can’t see where the “v shaped” recovery is coming from, especially with the retail and hospitality sectors unable to operate sensibly and half the population still hiding under their beds.

Another part of the problem is that, not only have so many sectors been badly scarred, but the propaganda has done a proper job on the workforce. We’ve long had a problem with productivity in this country, in that we’re on average less productive than most of Western Europe or most of Asia, but I can only imagine that we’ve gone backwards because post-Covid it strikes me that a lot of the population are both more scared (and so less engaged) and more indignant and self-righteous (and so less engaged).

The chancellor of the exchequer and the governor of the Bank of England both seem to disagree with me though – and they have a lot more people who know what they’re talking about advising them than I do.

45107 ▶▶ James007, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1145 of 1906 🔗

Stamp duty is like a break on the property market. It slows down the rate of transactions because it costs you a fortune if you want to downsize or move somewhere where you have better opportunities. Removing it (except for those who already own a home) leaves more cash to spend on ancillary services eg: new kitchens etc.. and in theory increase the flow of money.

You are right about tax rises. The government will be running a large deficit, spending way more than it can raise in taxes, which it can do for a bit. If the bond markets have confidence in a country’s abilities to sustain its deficit the government can sell bonds. With the QE the treasury actually creates new money to buy the debt, like a massive ponzi scheme.
In theory long term growth in GDP and inflation will basically help reduce the debt burden in time. Keynes said that you should run deficits in recessions, and raise taxes in booms.
Who knows but I think we will have a long period of very low GDP growth, and that deficit will widen. There may be new taxes. I dont think we will get massive inflation like some predict, because despite the QE the flow of money in the real economy will slow having a deflationary effect on prices, but who knows

45117 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James007, #1146 of 1906 🔗

I hope you’re right. You make it sound as though it might not be as bad as it looks from here!

45132 ▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to James007, 4, #1147 of 1906 🔗

This borrowing policy is plausible until the bond market looses faith in the govts solvency. Then everything collapses. This will start in Southern Europe and spread elsewhere. The big players all sold bonds before the pandemic.

45159 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Kristian Short, 1, #1148 of 1906 🔗

Yes you I fear you may be right. There’s also a lot of bad debt around. Just for example, I was stunned when I read how much student loan debt is on the books in the US. I couldn’t believe the number. $1.6tn.
Debt that is not increasing efficiency or growth is a massive drag on any business and on any economy.

45172 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to James007, 2, #1149 of 1906 🔗

General position is that there will a period of significant deflation. Interestingly, latest data from US shows unprecedented surge in personal savings as consumers pay back debt:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/plunge-consumer-credit-continues-americans-repay-record-amounts-credit-card-debt

Problem is if consumers hoard cash, then it suddenly splurges into the economy; all things equal there is the potential for hyperinflation. Gold is trading above $1800/troy ounce (implies inflation), although 10 year US Treasurys are now pretty close to zero (implies deflation). One of the deflation sceptics, David Einhorn, has an interesting take on this:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/why-david-einhorn-thinks-coronavirus-shock-will-turn-out-be-inflationary

45194 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1150 of 1906 🔗

Thank you for those links. I haven’t heard of that blog before. The theory about short term deflation and long term inflation is very interesting.
The flow of money around the economy has massively slowed and the stamp duty holiday may be the first of many measures to get it going. (I think people will not want to move house, or take on bigger mortgages, or buy new cars. Spending on smaller items will rise. For instance, my friend worked for a confectionery company and he said they always sold more chocolate in recessions. )

45211 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to James007, 1, #1151 of 1906 🔗

ZeroHedge has some excellent articles from various sources eg. Ron Paul Institute, von Myses Institute. Also very good on markets and US politics. Another site you might like, for data and headline economic news, is here:

https://tradingeconomics.com/

Other ‘recession-proof’ firms usually cigarette, alcohol and soup/tinned beans manufacturers.

45212 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1152 of 1906 🔗

Sorry that should be von Mises!

45248 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1153 of 1906 🔗

Thanks. I also really enjoyed the Mises vs Marx rap on YouTube “the march of history”

45671 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to James007, #1154 of 1906 🔗

Half of that will be me and my OH …

45230 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to James007, 2, #1155 of 1906 🔗

The problem Keynes didn’t take into account was human nature. When you are flush you have more leverage so governments borrow even more. Until it all crumbles or you go to war

45223 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, #1156 of 1906 🔗

The property market is the main route of introducing money into the economy in the form of mortgage debt. When somebody takes out a new mortgage, money is created out of nothing and finds it’s way into the hands of the seller.

Hence why the housing market will nearly always be the focus of an economic recovery and why interest rates have been kept artificially low to facilitate borrowing.

45231 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, #1157 of 1906 🔗

Basic state pension which no doubt the government are about to reduce.

45063 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 18, #1158 of 1906 🔗

If forced to wear masks we should get them professionally made with anti-lockdown slogans like, ‘Lockdowns kill’ or ‘Say no to mandatory vaccines’ or ‘Don’t lock us down, lock our leaders up.’

45079 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Stephen McMurray, 8, #1159 of 1906 🔗

On Simon Dolan’s Twitter there is a thread where people have posted t-shirt slogans; we should make use of some of them, eg

‘Your ignorance is their power’

‘Contact Tracers: the new gestapo. avoidthemask.com’

‘Conspiracy theorist: a term to discredit those who have seen through the bulls**t’

I liked this one:
‘Coronavirus: Stay asleep – Protect the elite – Save the hoax’

But this one was sad; a t-shirt for children:
‘ ‘New normal’? I never even had an ‘old normal’ ‘

45112 ▶▶▶ ted, replying to Carrie, 7, #1160 of 1906 🔗

‘Coronavirus: Stay asleep – Protect the elite – Save the hoax’

We have a winner! Short and to the point.

45267 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ted, #1161 of 1906 🔗

Do zombies comprehend irony?

45149 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Carrie, 4, #1162 of 1906 🔗

Young people have been betrayed and I fear it will get worse.

45116 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stephen McMurray, 1, #1163 of 1906 🔗

Someone suggested we just write 666 on them. Sums it up.

45268 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #1164 of 1906 🔗

No good, universal zombie ignorance forbids comprehension!

45066 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 5, #1165 of 1906 🔗

This one really takes the biscuit https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8503145/Holidaymakers-travelling-Scotland-Spain-quarantine-14-days.html
Scotland has 28 cases of Covid per 100 000 and yet face nappies coming in from Friday. England 180 per 100 000. My god, it’s rife. How will attempts by Scots to fly in and out of Newcastle be ineffective?

45104 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1166 of 1906 🔗

Can we assume that majority are false positives or asymptomatic?

45127 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to arfurmo, 2, #1167 of 1906 🔗

“She said the ‘difficult decision’ had been driven by the evidence”

Not the politics and racism then.

45134 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to GetaGrip, 2, #1168 of 1906 🔗

‘Difficult decision’? By the sounds of it, she is revelling in issuing new diktats daily…

45178 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to GetaGrip, 1, #1169 of 1906 🔗

What evidence?

45215 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nick Rose, #1170 of 1906 🔗

The evidence is that there’s some virus still hanging around like a bad smell. Everything else is could, would or maybe.

45229 ▶▶ Bella, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1171 of 1906 🔗

So 100,000 people have to wear face masks because 28 people are infected? Stunningly good business acumen.

45067 annie, 7, #1172 of 1906 🔗

Just received a lengthy reply from Age UK about treatment of old people in care homes. They also mentioned the DNR scandal, but soace firbids inckusion here.
You’ll see there is quite a lot of guff in the reply, but at least they did respond and at least they are aware that something isn’t right, which you would never gather from their website:


Age UK is dedicated to supporting older people and protecting their rights, and we, like you, are very concerned about the crisis occurring in care homes and the impact on all concerned. We believe that deaths in care homes are utterly heart breaking. It is absolutely crucial that the Government’s commitments on PPE and testing in care homes are implemented successfully and at speed. You may be interested to read a statement from our Charity Director, Caroline Abrahams in response to the Office of National Statistics – Death within the care sector:

“These new authoritative figures provide the most detailed view to date about what’s been going on in care homes and home care, and they tell a pretty alarming story… It’s not just the many deaths of older people directly attributed to the virus that cause us concern, but also the spike in deaths accounted for by other things. It is reasonable to suppose that some of these unexpected non-Covid 19 deaths were in fact due to the virus, but without any test having been carried out, and others to older people with different serious health conditions not getting the treatment they needed and would have received in more normal times

“Behind these statistics there are real older people whose lives were tragically cut short, and families and friends left to carry on knowing that in other circumstances their loved ones may have survived. We should also be conscious of the impact on care staff of experiencing so much loss in such a short space of time. They too will carry the wounds, some of them forever.

“For now the priority has to be to do everything possible to protect older people in receipt of care, and save their lives. It is clear that problems remain in accessing enough PPE and tests, and in the last seven days a further 400 care homes reported a Covid-19 outbreak, showing we are still very much in the midst of the crisis. When it is all over however serious questions will need to be asked about how such a catastrophe was able to come about. We must make sure it can never happen again.”

Rest-assured we have spoken about domiciliary care and family carers at every opportunity with the Government and care sector, and included their fears and difficulties in a report to the Health and Social Care Select Committee. Age UK are part of a working group that includes NHS England, the Government, Carers UK and the Carers Trust where we raise issues related to informal unpaid carers and highlight the experiences and challenges that older people and care staff are facing in care homes, which have so far been largely overlooked.

We are monitoring the ever-changing situation in care around the country and feeding back to the Government and care sector about measures that need to be made now to keep people safe and in order to ensure that the care system is vastly improved in the future.

We believe that Central and Local Government and care sector must work together. There is still time to save the lives of older people & the staff that care for them. And later as we emerge from this crisis, we will be working to ensure that this can never happen again.

45071 Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 2, #1173 of 1906 🔗

The regulations can be reauthorised by Parliament every six months.

45088 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 6, #1174 of 1906 🔗

‘Can’ and probably will with the dreadful current bunch of virtually brain-dead, power-mad, zombies ‘in charge’!

45123 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 1, #1175 of 1906 🔗

March to December is a long 6 months?

45199 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #1176 of 1906 🔗

Yes, I thought the whole coronavirus act had to be re-voted on every 6 months, up to the maximum limit on it of two years. Surely Matt Hancock can’t keep arbitrarily using statutory instruments to circumvent that requirement, and thereby keep re-setting the clock and avoiding the Parliamentary vote?

45128 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 1, #1177 of 1906 🔗

The original Stay At Home Or Die law expired at the end of Sept., but the new Have A Pint, But Don’t Get Too Excited law came in on July 4th and runs for six months, so that’s early January.
But there will be another extension before then, won’t there?

45133 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, #1178 of 1906 🔗

Does the ‘Have a pint..’ law actually *replace* the ‘Stay and Home…’ law then? Or are they running alongside each other? Wille the ‘Stay at home’ law actually expire in September or will it be extended?

From what I’m reading here, it seems like Matt Hancock-diktat has replaced the coronavirus law, which is very worrying if true… he was already behaving like a dictator before the latest rules…

45144 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, 2, #1179 of 1906 🔗

Good point, it’s all a bit impenetrable, and what’s the point trying to figure it out? Because they will do what the hell they want, when they want, to suit themselves.
How the hell do we get to one city having a different law from the rest of the country??

45145 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, #1180 of 1906 🔗

Was regulation 3 there from the start then? If so, it would seem we are being ruled by statutory instrument, where Parliament has no say? Ie a dictatorship, where Matt Hancock makes the rules?

45158 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, 1, #1181 of 1906 🔗

He has to terminate restrictions when it is “no longer necessary to prevent, protect against, control or provide a public health response to the incidence or spread of infection in England”.

Well, ‘prevent’ could run forever, and ‘incidence’ could be one case, never mind 30,000 double counted ones.

45161 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, #1182 of 1906 🔗

Far too freely worded..can be easily exploited..

45195 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #1183 of 1906 🔗

..up to a maximum of two years, no?

45082 Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 19, #1184 of 1906 🔗

I’ve just been out to my local pub with the family. The playground was open, so my 4 year old daughter had fun. Everyone inside acted normally. There was a ‘one in one out’ rule for the gents toilets, but this wasn’t adhered to nor enforced.

The only odd thing was that when we went in none of the staff were wearing masks, then at about 5.30pm, two of the staff decided to wear them after all. Strange. But overall, an OK experience, and my daughter was very happy to be out and about.

There was hand sanitizer available, but I didn’t see anybody using it, nor were we encouraged to. Gave me some hope that a return to normal is not far away.

45110 ▶▶ James007, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #1185 of 1906 🔗

Good to be able to go out again 🙂
Did they have a track and trace register?
I wonder how come GDPR is no longer an issue, and leaving a clipboard of names, addresses and phone numbers on a public bar is ok now.
Also why do they have a pen that everyone handles? It seems to me that if anything will spread Covid, its handling a pen on a bar that dozens of others have touched!

45136 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to James007, 3, #1186 of 1906 🔗

The communal pen issue is a good one to point out to people! Although perhaps not – might encourage places to issue some employee with an iPad to record your details, making it harder to sign in as Matt Hancock 😉 !

45182 ▶▶▶ SRagdoll, replying to James007, 8, #1187 of 1906 🔗

We went to see if we could get a beer in the local Brewdog bar. They asked us to scan the QR code to provide our details – I questioned them on their Data Privacy policy and how my data was to be handled. The response was ‘Good Question, don’t know. It gets sent to the government’. Told them that wasn’t good enough as they need to provide me with a Data Privacy notice under GDPR. Then basically got told provide the details or don’t come in, so went for the second option and walked off. Might write them an email later reminding them of the GDPR commitments and ICO.

45183 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to SRagdoll, 7, #1188 of 1906 🔗

Should have told them that failure to comply with GDPR regulations is a crime and can lead to an unlimited fine.

45184 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to SRagdoll, 2, #1189 of 1906 🔗

I don’t have a smartphone – still using a model circa 2014 (Windows). I wonder if they’d let me in?

45189 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1190 of 1906 🔗

I’m waiting for Rishi’s new scheme to provide everyone with a brand new mobile, as a part of this ‘levelling up’ they keep going on about – they can’t have anyone missing out now, or else they won’t be able to track everyone…
Of course the mobile will be fitted with all sorts of tracking stuff and identifiers that cannot be disabled…

45216 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Northern Chubs, replying to Carrie, 1, #1191 of 1906 🔗

Oops, I just dropped and broke the phone they sent. Oops, I just dropped and broke the replacement phone they sent. Oops…etc

45227 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, #1192 of 1906 🔗

That’s alright.Let them (well us really) pay for it and then leave it at home. I leave mine at home now. (well, I did, but since there’s nowhere to go now then it’s hardly a recalcitrant act)

45214 ▶▶▶▶▶ SRagdoll, replying to Tenchy, #1193 of 1906 🔗

I shall ask when I email them. They must have a alternative. I made the mistake of strolling up to the door with my phone in my hand. 🤦‍♀️

45186 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to SRagdoll, 2, #1194 of 1906 🔗

‘It gets sent to the government’..hmmm. Is there some new system that the government has issued/offered to businesses, using QR codes, that we haven’t heard about (yet..)?

45208 ▶▶▶▶▶ SRagdoll, replying to Carrie, #1195 of 1906 🔗

The pub I went to on Saturday also had the QR code thing, but weren’t policing it. It was just on a notice stuck to the stupid plastic ‘safety’ screen attached to the bar.

45193 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to SRagdoll, 7, #1196 of 1906 🔗

I did some work for a charity a year or so back and worked really hard to ensure GDPR compliance. It was a massive headache for a pretty small organisation – about a dozen employees, data audits and permissions etc… I’m not a bit fan of GDPR but it is the law, and we should have our personal details dealt with securely and with our consent.
I think this track and trace thing is just another blind panic policy that hasn’t been thought through.

45209 ▶▶▶▶▶ SRagdoll, replying to James007, 1, #1197 of 1906 🔗

Yeah, I actually work in Data Governance/Privacy so could go to town on them if I could be bothered! 😂

45251 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to SRagdoll, 3, #1198 of 1906 🔗

Remind them contact details are not mandatory – guidance only.

45226 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to James007, 3, #1199 of 1906 🔗

Multiple handling a pen but don’t touch a pelican crossing button, oh no. Haven’t people noticed the virus is more or less done and dusted?

45243 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to James007, #1200 of 1906 🔗

Would the fact the data collection is voluntary bypass GDPR. Sorry i don’t have the link but it is the case. Easy search.

The gov website clearly sets out name and address collection is voluntary.

45252 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Basics, #1201 of 1906 🔗

Yes that’s true Basics and it is voluntary. If memory serves any collection of an individuals personal data by an organisation could be covered by GDPR, even with an opt-in system. We ought to be able to see a privacy policy which outlines how it is being used, stored and how long for.
Not many people know the difference between government advice and law.
The restaurant I went to tonight seemed to think it was a legal requirement. I wasnt in the mood to argue with the waiter about it, but he said all customers must sign in.
It did reveal how few customers they had had this week!

45250 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to James007, 1, #1202 of 1906 🔗

Unfortunately they had some form of register, but only for the ‘leader of the party/group’. The ‘leader of the party/group’ was requested to either text their name to a number, or scan a QR code to register the same.

When my wife and I said that we didn’t have our phones with us, the barmaid was happy for us to take down the number on a piece of paper to communicate our details with later (yeah right!). This was a Greene King pub.

45084 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 24, #1203 of 1906 🔗

An interesting piece that I have just come across on: https://www.thelocal.fr/20200708/whats-the-plan-in-france-if-theres-a-second-wave-of-coronavirus?utm_source=piano&utm_medium=onsite&utm_campaign=71&tpcc=fr-latest

I wonder when we will see a similar statement here?

“The French government said Wednesday it is preparing for a second wave of COVID-19 cases that could emerge in the coming months, but will not respond with another nationwide lockdown to contain the outbreak.
“My aim is to prepare France for an eventual second wave, while preserving our daily life, our economic and social life,” new Prime Minister Jean Castex said in an interview on RTL television. “But we’re not going to impose a lockdown like the one we did last March, because we’ve learned… that the economic and human consequences from a total lockdown are disastrous,” he said.”

45094 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Ozzie, 4, #1204 of 1906 🔗

Oh wow, quick off the mark then to see the coming disaster that everyone here saw four months ago. Give Boris a month or two more and he might even begin to catch on. No, on second thoughts, noone could call him a quick study!

45109 ▶▶ ted, replying to Ozzie, 7, #1205 of 1906 🔗

ROFL, please don’t tell the Americans. The MSM spent the morning hyperventilating because their arch nemesis, Trump, is now apparently in favor of children attending school. The audacity! Children in school! What a monster! Who will protect the teachers from those little booger munchers?! Paging Dr. Fauci, is Dr. Fauci in the house?

45125 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Ozzie, 4, #1206 of 1906 🔗

Interesting and refreshing. If only our own shambolic leader would have the moral courage and leadership to admit the same mistake

45165 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Ozzie, 4, #1207 of 1906 🔗

Oh well that’s good because I think they told us to go into the lockdown. So hopefully they won’t make us go into a second one.

45196 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to guy153, 1, #1208 of 1906 🔗

Yes that’s what I thought, and I’ve got a feeling Boris and Macron are quite good buddies too, so some of that might rub off on him…

45096 PeteMate, 1, #1209 of 1906 🔗

The forces of darkness want us Social Distanced for ever!! Want us never to shake hands/hug/congregate in crowds/love/feel joy and laugh.ever again. But what happens to the darkness when you turn on the light? Shine your light bright. Shine it proud. WE WILL WIN
PS: Was on the Bumble Dating Site last night and a girl’s profile picure came up… and she was wearing a mask!… WTF!!!!!!!

45102 JYC, replying to JYC, 40, #1210 of 1906 🔗

On Saturday morning, I will drive to the local supermarket on my own. I will leave my car and try to enter the supermarket. But in doing so I will be committing an offence. I won’t have done anything different from normal and I won’t have caused any harm en route, but I will not have a face mask on. What kind of country passes a law like that? Welcome to Scotland.

45103 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to JYC, 16, #1211 of 1906 🔗

Me too, could be an interesting weekend and possibly the tipping point. A damp squib or civil unrest

45124 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to stefarm, 12, #1212 of 1906 🔗

Have you checked whether it’s actually a legal requirement? If not, no power to enforce. This has been the story with may executive edicts that turn out to be just guidance. Just need enough people to challenge. Drake ford in Wales admitted, when pressed, that his ridiculous 5 miles travel restriction was guidance only and couldn’t actually be enforced or result in fines if miscreants actually challenged.

45139 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Telpin, 5, #1213 of 1906 🔗

‘Is it the law, or is it guidance?’ is a polite but firm way to challenge anyone trying to enforce some petty rule..
Might also be an idea to make a point of visibly recording yourself asking the question and the person replying – if they try to claim something is a law, when it is not, then you have evidence.. Might make people back down?

45169 ▶▶▶▶▶ Guirme, replying to Carrie, 7, #1214 of 1906 🔗

When I checked earlier today it had not been included in the Scottish regulations; will check again tomorrow evening. I think the way ahead may be to ignore the supermarkets and stick to small local shops which have more to lose. We have bought in a fair bit of food so can avoid the shops for a couple of weeks or so. I suspect that non food shops will be rather quiet on Friday.

45237 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Guirme, 2, #1215 of 1906 🔗

Don’t forget the nudge unit is working on social shaming with the idea being tha police can not patrol everything but society can – people are being led into feeling it is okay to socially shame.

It was already put out by some nameless twerp in power that people should wear a mask and use eye contact to shame those who are not wearing one.

Prepare to be a trigger for some who are lost in propaganda. I think it helps if you know something like that may happen.

I think lots of people are feeling skeptical about this.

45266 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 3, #1216 of 1906 🔗

Be tough! As one who was regularly verbally bullied in the playground as a child, I learned the ditty:

Sticks and stones will break my bones,
But words will never hurt me.

It isn’t true – words do hurt – but it was the token of defiance in the bullied.
They won’t harm you physically – zombie distancing!

45190 ▶▶▶▶▶ JYC, replying to Carrie, 2, #1217 of 1906 🔗

Face covering is to be mandatory in shops in Scotland from 10 July. It’s a £60 fine if you don’t obey.

45198 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to JYC, 2, #1218 of 1906 🔗

Will there be police on duty in every shop? I’ve been paying cash, card payments only from Friday to trace naked faced shoppers???, Scottish government can’t even track and trace new arrivals at Edinburgh airport so how will they track and trace us normal people??

45346 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JYC, replying to stefarm, #1219 of 1906 🔗

The Scottish government has a helpful web page entitled “Compliance and penalties” (seriously). Here’s an extract:

“The police will act with discretion and common sense in applying these measures and we expect the public to act responsibly, staying at home in order to save lives.

However, if they believe you have broken these rules and you are 18 or over – or you refuse to follow their instructions – a police officer may issue you with a fixed penalty notice for £60 (reduced to £30 if paid within 28 days).”

If you want to read the detail:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-phase-2-staying-safe-and-protecting-others/pages/compliance-and-penalties/

You could not make this up.

45232 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JYC, #1220 of 1906 🔗

Is a police constable allowed to issue fines? I vaguely recall an officer is but a constable can’t. A fine is a legal matter whereas the police are concerned with law and order. I do not know so just asking.

Yes, traffic police issue fines, I think there’s something special about that arrangement! You can tell how often I go up against the fuzz!

45249 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 2, #1221 of 1906 🔗

None of them can issue fines, there is always the right to a court hearing.

45777 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #1222 of 1906 🔗

Thanks John

45162 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Telpin, 7, #1223 of 1906 🔗

The trouble is even if it is guidance the jobsworths in supermarkets will choose to enforce the rules strictly as will our fellow fanatical citizens. They are really stepping up the mask propaganda this week.

45171 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Darryl, 8, #1224 of 1906 🔗

I spoke to the assistant manager of my local Morrisons last week, she seemed as though she wasn’t up for a fight and did say why would they turn people away and couldn’t physically remove non-mask wearers aka intelligent critical thinking people and why risk losing custom.

45201 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Telpin, #1225 of 1906 🔗

Welsh law is actually even more complex! There is a line in the law something along the lines of “in regard to ministers guidance”. Their guidance was at the time was 5 miles. But it is still vague, because it could simply mean you regard it, reach your own conclusion based on your situation and evidence of its validity, and ignore it!
See http://www.laworfiction.com this has covered some of the welsh unnecessary discrepancies.

45228 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Telpin, #1226 of 1906 🔗

So far I’d say costco and warhammer(?!) Are probably going to be pretty frosty with bare faces.

Warhammer(!?) Say they will be supplying masks for the first week to customers(?!). Plastic masks they said, so not only do I not know what they sell I also don’t know how their customers will breathe.

Everywhere else i have spoken to people have been relaxed sounding and lots puzzled asking why now what sense does it make?

45166 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to stefarm, 2, #1227 of 1906 🔗

Are there any demonstrations planned in fact?

45113 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #1228 of 1906 🔗

Interesting from last week’s Grad live:

Nick Cohen: Just been talking to @leicesterliz who says Leicester not given virus info because Hancock signed testing contract with Deloitte and did not include the instruction to pass data on to the local authorities who could actually use it.

And

The great @stellacreasy uncovered the failure. Not only do Deloitte not have to share info with local authorities. They don’t even have to share it with Public Health England

45121 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #1229 of 1906 🔗

I’m a commercial lawyer and this is the most basic’permitted recipient’ category to be included in any confidential provision- as the ability to provide the data to local authorities and PHE is the basic purpose of the contract services in the first place. Either he wasn’t legally advised ( unlikely) or his department are muppets. Scandalous if true although I’d believe anything of these incompetents. I’m so very disappointed about S Dolan being refused leave. It removed any serious reckoning for the foreseeable future. I can only hope he appeals.

45140 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Telpin, 12, #1230 of 1906 🔗

Simon Dolan is planning to appeal..

In the meantime there is another case being brought regarding the closure of churches and invoking the Magna Carta. It will be interesting to see how the government ‘play’ that one. Think of the potential headlines if the government try to maintain that the Magna Carta is no longer valid law and that we no longer have those rights… whilst they are at the same time trying to claim that Brexit has ‘freed’ us from EU law.
Also, Muslims are challenging the closure of places of worship in a 3rd court case, and we know from the Tilbrook case that all judges in the UK are signed up to the ‘diversity’ agenda. So will they dare go against what Muslims are asking for?

45118 Keen Cook, 5, #1231 of 1906 🔗

I never thought I would agree with Polly Toynbee but on R4 (yes my mistake in car ) she suggested that the problem with all the grand announcements from Dishi Rishi today was that this would mean someone in current government would have to deliver on promises and so far their incompetence in every other delivery task doesn’t give us much hope. Did anyone else hear it?

45131 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #1232 of 1906 🔗

I would recommend this interview with Neil Oliver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NaqaTEhDQc

45157 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #1233 of 1906 🔗

Neil Oliver has been doing some good interviews on TalkRadio over the past few weeks. He speaks a lot of sense – we need more people in media like him.

Shame National Trust Scotland just forced him out – everything is so political now. I would imagine he won’t be appearing on the BBC again anytime soon.

45170 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Darryl, 3, #1234 of 1906 🔗

I’ve been following his TalkRadio interviews and enjoy reading his column in the Sunday Times – that’s one loss after Mr Bart and I cancelled our Times subscription.

Didn’t know that National Trust Scotland has forced him out, that’s a real shame. Yeah, won’t be surprised if the BBC won’t have him back his documentaries have been excellent.

Another sad loss.

45278 ▶▶▶▶ Guirme, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1235 of 1906 🔗

I don’ t think the NTS forced him out – I think it has been the constant sniping from Sturgeon’s SNP, an organisation that is hugely intolerant of those who do not show blind obedience.

The NTS is in deep financial trouble; membership allows entry to all English NT properties so well worth considering as an alternative. The closure of Bannockburn for two years and the decision to sell Bute House (Sturgeon’s official residence) suggest to me that NTS have not succumbed to Sturgeon’s obsessive desire to control everything.

45280 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Guirme, #1236 of 1906 🔗

They have been in deep trouble for a long time even before the 2008 recession. Their old HQ used to be one of those beautiful Robert Adam townhouses in Charlotte Square but they had to move out in order to rent the place out.

The Georgian House which is across their old HQ is well worth a visit.

45265 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Darryl, 6, #1237 of 1906 🔗

National Unworthy-of-Trust anywhere are bumsucking traitors,
. Please, if you are still a member, cancel. They have been enthusiastic Covhysterics from the start.
Latest bullshit: one-way. systems in outdoor properties.

45271 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 1, #1238 of 1906 🔗

Mr Bart and I were thinking of getting a membership but because of their dodgy shenanigans over the past few years and for reasons of finance we ain’t doing it.

Have formally cancelled my National Gallery membership too.

45312 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 1, #1239 of 1906 🔗

Coastal nature reserve near hear now has a one way system to and from the beach – a walk of the better part of a mile. Big, bright no entry signs among the sand dunes.

Lending a poetically tragic atmosphere; the beach is backed by a line of long forgotten war-time defences that lie as a memory of previous efforts keep of fascism from Britain.

45167 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1240 of 1906 🔗

That’s brilliant. Thanks for posting the link.

45174 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1241 of 1906 🔗

Neil Oliver’s counterpart in England, Hilary McGrady, sent the following missive to staff and volunteers in early June. I think Tiger de Souza could most usefully spend all of his time recruiting shedloads of BAME members to help address the multi-million hole in the NT England budget (because of loss of members and revenues following Government edicts about carownervirus), which is what Hilary McG should also focus on overwhelmingly! Hilary has been noticeably coy IMHO about mentioning BLM in her messages to members, but staff and volunteers have had the virtue-signalling treatment below.

“Dear all,
I’m writing to you outside of my usual updates on National Trust business because I want to talk about an issue that needs its own space and everyone’s attention: the killing of George Floyd by police and the worldwide protests that have resulted. Systemic bias and racism are everyone’s business and it’s the duty of every leader to be clear about what they’re doing in their organisations to counter this. The National Trust was founded to serve the whole of society and it’s both my duty and my main aim to ensure we do this.
I want to thank Tiger de Souza who is our organisational lead on inclusion. His leadership blog last week laid out his initial thoughts and guidance for us all. And I heard from him after the Black and Minority Ethnic staff and volunteer Keeping in Touch session he chaired last week. He told me our Black and Minority Ethnic colleagues (staff and volunteers) need more vocal support than they have received so far. While we’ve supported #Blacklivesmatter and Blackout Tuesday on our public channels, we now need to be clearer internally about our solidarity and support for our colleagues. We all need to act, even if we don’t always feel prepared or qualified to do or say the right things.
This week you will see materials appearing on Acorn*. They are a) to support Black and Minority Ethnic colleagues right now, signposting to chatrooms, help groups and other sources of support and b) for all of us to read, reflect and act. We all need to take time to educate ourselves, and to understand what we can do to support our colleagues who are personally affected by recent events and by racism and discrimination in any form. As line managers, as colleagues and as leaders.
At the start of my tenure as Director General I put inclusion at the heart of what we do through our Everyone Welcome programme. It is central to our future. We have a long way to go, we will make mistakes and there will always be people who want us to move faster. I understand that but we also need to make sure we do it right and the changes we make are rooted and sustained. I’m clear, as I hope we all are, that we can and must ensure the National Trust is a truly diverse and inclusive place to work, visit, join and support……”

45272 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cambridge N, 5, #1242 of 1906 🔗

Jesus wept. Nothing about concrete measures to help the NT survive or lobbying the government to end their insane policies that’s harming their visitor numbers and revenue but more pointless virtue signalling. I despair, I really do.

As part of the BAME group myself (how I hate that term), if I was a NT volunteer and received this tripe, I would resign and say I could no longer support an organisation that promotes racism and a ahistorical view of the past.

45611 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Bart Simpson, #1243 of 1906 🔗

Hilary sadly is apparently not that bothered by the calamitous fall in revenue! I agree, a lot of volunteers will resign, and members not rejoin if there is too much of this woke twaddle. Go woke, go broke (cf Gillette’s advert).

45262 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #1244 of 1906 🔗

Neil Oliver, Laurence Fox, Peter Hitchens…all taking a personal hit for the truth. Yes, none of them are short of a bob or two but even so they have been brave. So we salute them.

45604 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Bart Simpson, #1245 of 1906 🔗

Just watched this interview Neil Oliver certainly got my attention when he spoke of the auto immune system after fighting a virus attacking healthy cells he mentioned Alopecia,my wife had what we believed to be a very bad flu over Christmas and New year in which she lost her sense of taste as well as the other usual symptoms it lasted nearly 3 weeks I on the hand didn’t catch it and was fine ,by March I started to get bald spots on the back of my head which spread right across the back in patches and thinning out on the sides resulting in a peaky blinders haircut now ,So maybe Neil Oliver has solved this mystery? Wish it would hurry up and grow back lol

45160 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1246 of 1906 🔗

Sen Scott Jenson raised concerns that federal guidance could cause doctors to overcount COVID-19 cases and said there’s a financial incentive to inflating the numbers and states he’s now under investigation by state medical board for COVID remarks.

https://www.startribune.com/sen-scott-jensen-says-complaints-about-covid-19-comments-may-be-political/571650782/

His video response and discussion of false death certificates:

https://youtu.be/TK7P6IbARzo

45164 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Sarigan, 9, #1247 of 1906 🔗

The situation in the US seems to be a complete mess the Democrats appear to want complete economic destruction before the election. I have a feeling the numbers would quickly come down the minute they get into power and dubious ‘positive tests’ would all of a sudden become less important.

45188 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1248 of 1906 🔗

Brave man.
BUT –
The most powerful comment on this video was:
“Where are all the UK doctors?”

Who on the front line dares tell the truth?

45163 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 15, #1249 of 1906 🔗

Coming soon to a socially distanced cinema near you:

45168 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1250 of 1906 🔗

Little things like this would be great to print out and casually leave around in pubs and other communal places…

45176 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 2, #1251 of 1906 🔗

I may have started leaving little notes in the canteens of places I visit for work……

45173 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sarigan, #1252 of 1906 🔗

Ahahaah!

45260 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sarigan, #1253 of 1906 🔗

Socially distanced sick buckets will be provided.

45382 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sarigan, #1254 of 1906 🔗

Might be better than the original.

45177 IanE, replying to IanE, 5, #1255 of 1906 🔗

Oh boy, Toby takes heart in point 18 above about mere cancellation of people being less effective than imprisonment or murder of the ‘unwoke’. Quite a bit earlier I mused that it might not be wise to dismiss the possibility of imprisonment and now look at this:

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/08/climate-activists-step-up-calls-for-imprisoning-climate-realists/

45259 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to IanE, #1256 of 1906 🔗

Of course that’s the next step. Whoever thought otherwise?

45187 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, -1, #1257 of 1906 🔗

Please tell me I’m wrong

45191 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1258 of 1906 🔗

🙁

45197 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1259 of 1906 🔗

Conspiracy theories =boooring.

45200 ▶▶ matt, replying to Lockdown Truth, 9, #1260 of 1906 🔗

Assuming you’re wrong, where you’re wrong is that you’ve created a narrative that absolutely fits the facts and makes logical sense. The thing is that, even though we want it to, the world doesn’t make sense and almost never fits a tidy narrative. The history of the world is the history of errors and unintended consequences, with the occasional deliberate intervention and temporarily successful plan – but even those had unintended consequences and unravelled in the end.

Napoleon said “no plan survives engagement with the enemy” and it’s no less true today than it was 200 years ago.

We want the world to make sense – it’s comforting to think there’s a plan, even if it’s an evil plan. But it doesn’t, and there isn’t, and even if there were, it wouldn’t work nearly so well as this.

45258 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 1, #1261 of 1906 🔗

Wise words. The way I put it is this: the world is 33% conspiracy 33% cock-up 33% chance and 1% that can never be explained.

45310 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, #1262 of 1906 🔗

Heavy on the 33s there OkUK..!

45202 Ian, replying to Ian, 5, #1263 of 1906 🔗

The BBC just reporting the ‘airborne transmission’ latest, and ‘how it might affect the way we live our lives’. It’s clearly a softening up.

45218 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ian, 3, #1264 of 1906 🔗

Also getting a heavy plug on Sky, with a demonstration of how particles might move through the air across tables in a restaurant when blown from an air conditioning unit. They will never give up will they!

45242 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ozzie, 16, #1266 of 1906 🔗

A comment from the Telegraph article:

“They are seeing the end of the panic is now in sight, so they are creating a new source of panic…”

Says it all really.

45239 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ian, 2, #1267 of 1906 🔗

Are people seeing this as really scientifically plausible or a complicit media being fed convenient stories?

There hssn’t been a real hurricane of stories about great clusters of people being exposed in shops or elsewhere.

45221 Dave #KBF, 1, #1268 of 1906 🔗

I have not heard or read what has been put in place today, has anything been done to force employers to keep employing people who have been furloughed for the last few months, or are employers just going to be able to make people redundant without any penalty?

45224 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 13, #1269 of 1906 🔗

Jeez, this site is unreadable at the mo with over 1,200 comments on here. We need to get a forum as it’s horrendous going through this many comments, and there is just a tremendous amount of repetition from the previous days. We also have some good topics of conversation on here but because the comments start again each day the thread is lost.

A forum would also help us to get more organised in opposing this lockdown.

45234 ▶▶ ianric, replying to JohnB, #1270 of 1906 🔗

This is a good idea. There is a lockdown skeptics thread on reddit but posts have to be approved by moderators.

45241 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ianric, 5, #1271 of 1906 🔗

There was someone on here who started one https://lockdownsceptics.com , I joined it but there’s was only about 30 people on there. Might be a good place to start though if we could get a lot of people on there, as we wouldn’t have the problem of being censored by the woke left on sites like Reddit.

45240 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to JohnB, #1272 of 1906 🔗

There is a forum lockdownsceptics.com few joined

45357 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #1273 of 1906 🔗

Can we ask Toby to start a new thread every day, regardless of whether he posts or not?

45225 Basics, replying to Basics, 18, #1274 of 1906 🔗

Forgive the repeat post here – I don’t want this small development to be lost. Quite a few commenters read the article in question.

The guardian appears to have pulled their article which exposed Minchie as a behavioural scientist (physcologist) intent on upturning British culture by pressuring Number 10 Downing street into enforcing mask wearing. To me this pulling of the article is a big deal – we are on to them and they don’t like it!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/07/wear-face-masks–coverings-over-nose-and-mouth-stresses-no-10

404 the page doesn’t exist. Many a possibke reason but I would say it was a moment the truth slipped out. 77th Brigade perhaps or 13th Signals may have realised how transparent the behavioural science is becoming.

-If you can access the linked story please let others know-

Text from the pulled article (only one paragraph).

No 10 must promote face mask use more forcefully, experts warn
Criticism comes as government launches public information campaign amid low takeup

Prof Susan Michie, a psychologist on a subgroup of Sage and also member of Independent Sage, said on Tuesday: “It’s becoming increasingly clear that face masks are needed and warranted, particularly in indoor spaces. And I think we really need to begin thinking about how we achieve that given there’s no cultural history and there’s no huge appetite from looking around at the British public at the moment.

Awkward Git gave some added info

Here is Professor Susan Michie’s background, not exactly unbiased:

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/pals/people/susan-michie

Lots of links to Bill gates at UCL:

https://search2.ucl.ac.uk/s/search.html?query=bill+gates&collection=website-meta&profile=_website&tab=websites&sumbit=Go

And this snippet from wikipedia – citation needed :

Michie was married from 1981 to 1997 to the trade union official Andrew Murray and has three children, including Laura Murray, a former close aide to Jeremy Corbynand appointed head of complaints at the Labour Party in April 2019.[14]

Michie has served as a national executive committee member and president of the London Region of the trade union MSF. She is a member of the Communist Party of Britain (CPB), but has donated to the Labour Party[15] under the Corbyn leadership. In March 2018, Michie, described as a leading member of the CPB, said that the party would no longer stand against Labour in general elections and CPB members should be “working full tilt” for the election of Corbyn as prime minister.[16][17]

And these classics:

Susan Michie is Professor of Health Psychology and Director of the Centre for Behaviour Change at UCL. Susan’s research focuses on developing the science of behaviour change interventions and applying behavioural science to interventions.

https://iris.ucl.ac.uk/iris/browse/profile?upi=SFMIC21

Another leftie bought and paid for champagne socialist.

45236 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, #1276 of 1906 🔗

The link looks the same, but it does work!

45238 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ozzie, #1277 of 1906 🔗

Great. Thanks for sorting that out. No idea what I got wrong.

45300 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 1, #1278 of 1906 🔗

In your version, the two dashes (which is a bit odd) between ‘masks’ and ‘coverings’ have been converted to a hyphen, maybe from pasting into Word or something? So, it becomes a different URL.

45307 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, #1279 of 1906 🔗

Thanks. I wonder if I copied the link text or copied the link only. It’s not seen Word. I’m glad it’s being seen now.

45244 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 1, #1280 of 1906 🔗

Michie is 65, so why the hell hasn’t she retired, like any normal person would?

45632 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1281 of 1906 🔗

She probably has to wait till she’s at least 67 – like normal people do.

45256 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Basics, 6, #1282 of 1906 🔗

She is a member of the Communist Party of Britain

WHAT?!!!

45292 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Basics, 2, #1283 of 1906 🔗

Maybe it’s time for a lot of people to email this information directly to Number 10, and ask why a Conservative Prime Minister is getting advice from a communist??

Email address for Number 10:
https://email.number10.gov.uk

45356 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, #1284 of 1906 🔗

Good idea!

45636 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, #1285 of 1906 🔗

Easy – they’re following The Science.

45257 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 15, #1286 of 1906 🔗

So No 10 is being influenced by a Communist Party apparatchik who is also a behavioural scientist?

Seems like the Maskists are also Marxists. What a surprise, not.

I have had it with the masks…mask wearing is insanity, a denial of everything our species truly is.

Leaving aside those with health conditions, masks are the preserve of weirdos, political extremists, religious extremists and medico-fascists.

We must resist. The best response is simply to refuse to wear one. If that means you don’t go on public transport, as in my case, so be it. They are losing revenue as a result. Eventually the unions are going to twig that this is a dangerous time for them. If public transport usage is running at 16% then this is the time for a Conservative government to start contemplating such things as automation of the tube in London. The unions are making us live in the 20th century while the rest of us are in the 21st century. We have the absurd situation where the Docklands Light Railway is automated but the tube isn’t.

The Government should announce a review unless the unions get back on side with a full return to normality.

45286 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to OKUK, 4, #1287 of 1906 🔗

Any dicipline with ‘science’ attached to the name is pretty much guaranteed to be nonsense (Climate Science for instance). My solution to being compelled to wear a mask is a pair of Y fronts with a cable tie at the bridge of my nose so I can see where I’m going. Greener than a disposable, simple to wash, satirical.

45299 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1288 of 1906 🔗

Nice idea – and those of a kinky disposition can always borrow a pair of the other half’s knickers!

45291 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to OKUK, 3, #1289 of 1906 🔗

According to a Tube driver that I know well, many of the Tube lines already are automated, and the driver is there for show, because passengers expect a driver to be there.

45308 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lms23, 1, #1290 of 1906 🔗

I think it also may be because drivers expect to be there to collect £60k salaries and have good unions.

In plenty of other countries there is blatantly no driver– you can often sit right at the front and get a great view– and passengers seem to be fine with it.

45326 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to guy153, 1, #1291 of 1906 🔗

DLR – Docklands Light Railway has always been driverless since it was opened

45309 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lms23, 3, #1292 of 1906 🔗

Much of the infrastructure is indeed there, yes. I’d be surprised if your average passenger would even notice whether or not a train has a driver though – and a significant number will have also taken the DLR at some point and won’t have cared. On many lines at this point, the driver’s sole job is to hold the dead man’s handle and to make announcements to explain delays or to complain about the doors being stuck. The presence of drivers has nothing to do with people wanting them (or very little) and everything to do with the unions refusing to allow drivers to be done away with.

45296 ▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 4, #1293 of 1906 🔗

Buses here where masks are mandatory are running smoothly with few masks being worn. I have yet to see a person get on a bus without a mask, all waiting at stops have a face covering as far as I’ve seen. But looking into buses as they pass about 80% of passengers don’t have a mask.

45629 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #1294 of 1906 🔗

So masks on to board, masks off for journey.
Smart plan – and saves the driver a lot of hassle!

45350 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, #1295 of 1906 🔗

Just seen this on Peter Hitchens’ Twitter, which scared me..’ In the meantime, the Gov have recently issued guidance for implementing Sch 21 of the CV Act, which confers the right to remove, detain, test and restrict children and adults, which suggests they now intend to start using this power.’

45261 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 12, #1296 of 1906 🔗

I’m not convinced by the Government’s strategy at all. The strategy appears to be:

  1. Run government finances on normal.
  2. Back construction as the way out of the economic crisis.
  3. Cut taxes to stimulate the economy.
  4. Play it both ways on Covid – “be safe” but “get out there”…”the virus is deadly” but “there’s nothing to be afraid of really”.
  1. My view is that this being the worst recession ever and being entirely self-inflicted, running government finances as per normal is possibly suicidal. What we need to do is write off the Covid debt ie create money to pay off the debts associated with the crisis.
  2. Construction is not a great wealth creator. We would be far better off investing in things like green energy infrastructure, robotics and automation, repatriating factories to this country, tech start ups and so on – things that really can create wealth.
  3. Cutting taxes is a very lumbering way of stimulating the economy. It would be much better to deploy Milton Friedman’s “helicopter money” and give each household a free time-limited spend card with special emphasis on getting people out and about in pubs, restaurants and clothes shops again.
  4. Mixed messages are always dangerous and often fatal. The Government should be pursuing a dual strategy – putting all health decisions on the individual but in terms of the community stressing low risk…this should include TV adverts that compare risk e.g. a 30 year old is more likely to be run over, die from an STD or die from falling off a ladder. The population need guidance on risk comparison. Once they realise how low the risk is of dying from Covid for 90% of the population, confidence will return. But if you play this game of mixed messages you generate uncertainty, fear, conflict and a feeling of quiet despair.
45273 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, 12, #1297 of 1906 🔗

The last bit is spot on and they should do it, if only to educate people who I’ve been finding are woefully ignorant even with basic probability and risk assessment. When I told a millenial friend that she had more likelihood of being struck by lightning, being run over by a bus or die from dodgy DIY at home, she went “but what about the second wave?”

45276 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to OKUK, 6, #1298 of 1906 🔗

I think you’ve absolutely nailed it in your last point: give people the facts and encourage them to assess risk for themselves. But I think the Government are running scared of the media, and are also terrified of political fallout. And just generally are all over the place, as you describe.

On your point 2, Trump seems to have had some success in getting US companies to keep or repatriate investment, and hence jobs, onshore, by appeals to patriotism, or sometimes by naming and shaming. We sadly lack a Trump (caveat: curate’s egg, Marmite person etc.) in the UK.

45281 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to OKUK, 2, #1299 of 1906 🔗

Construction is not a great wealth creator.

Especially when it is government policy to effectively pressure people into home working, mail order shopping, minimising travel, etc.

45285 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to OKUK, 11, #1300 of 1906 🔗

Green infrastructure is a proven job killer. More jobs are destroyed than created. We have enough of a problem with ascentific panic killing the economy as it is.

45290 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #1301 of 1906 🔗

The Bradbury Pound would help.

45393 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Basics, 1, #1302 of 1906 🔗

It would indeed but is never mentioned or considered.

45293 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1303 of 1906 🔗

That’s interesting, can you point me to some reading? I don’t get why infrastructure to capture solar, wind, wave power is a job destroyer, but isn’t for mines, gas and oil rigs?

45298 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bruno, 4, #1304 of 1906 🔗

It is because it is a) unproductive economically (indeed rather damaging) and b) it takes money away from the productive economy. There have been many studies of this throughout the world and it has been shown that every job resulting from green energy initiatives leads to the loss of between 3 and 5 jobs from the rest of the economy. This is exactly comparable to what happened in the USSR where, to create what they termed full employment, many people were paid to do non-jobs (such as, literally, just sitting in a cabin outside every rail and train station) – this was one of the big causes for the failure of the USSR!
Mines, gas and oil rigs produce energy at very low cost (relatively) and, by keeping down the cost of energy (the main driver of civilisation), they power the economy!

45311 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to IanE, 1, #1305 of 1906 🔗

I’m not against exploitation of oil, gas, coal reserves (seems the only practical way of fuelling aviation for a start). I just don’t get why spending on infrastructure to capture other sources, like hydro, wind turbines etc should be damaging economically. And even if it were more expensive to produce initially, the reduction in political risk by reducing dependence on unstable producers (Middle East, Russia) would be worthwhile? They’re not non jobs, the USSR comparison doesn’t seem to work.

45316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Bruno, 1, #1306 of 1906 🔗

Absent a magic money tree the money for projects with low or negative return on investment displaces money for real engineering like modular nuclear.

45324 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bruno, 4, #1307 of 1906 🔗

so we sit on coal but all the mines are closed. we sit on a huge amount of gas but we are not allowed to tap it . that is where your reduced dependence comes from – and provides cheap energy to allow our industry to compete. As for renewables, these only are economic because of the massive subsidies. And when the wind dont blow and the sun dont shine there has to be support infrastructure – ie gas turbine or diesel engines to turn on and provide the power the renewables dont. We are closing our baseload generators (nuclear) or powering it from american forests (Drax),
And none of this vast expenditure for “green economy ” doesnt make anything we can export and increase the economy. Sure you can employ people ot insulate houses but it is just like furlough payments… where is the wealth being generated to pay for it?. It is not quite the same as building a Mini or a Jaguar and selling it to USA

45341 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to mjr, #1308 of 1906 🔗

Yes, an interesting discussion for us perhaps but in reality another catastrophe we have visited on the poor. https://www.gwpf-energy-justice.org/

45447 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #1309 of 1906 🔗

definitely . . i have been with gwpf for years .. unfortunately the “green solution” will have the same effect as lockdown on the economy but too many people are ostrich like

45363 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to mjr, #1310 of 1906 🔗

None of the vast expenditure on building oil rigs directly made anything to export either, except the technology and expertise (also present in wind, wave exploitation). Manufacturers don’t care how their power is generated, just about the price.
I’m just thinking a mix of sources (I understand the requirement for backup ones, at least in current state of battery tech) is preferable to dependence on potentially unreliable ones. Or are you suggesting UK could provide all its energy requirements domestically?

45340 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Bruno, 2, #1311 of 1906 🔗

The shelf life of these “green” options is shockingly pathetic. I highly recommend the documentary Planet of the Humans by Michael Moore, which you can watch on Youtube. My husband and I have been working on going off-grid for the last two years, so we’ve done a lot of research and found everything in the documentary rang true with our experience of the false economy.

45344 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to TyLean, 2, #1312 of 1906 🔗

P of the H makes a powerful case against biomass, less so for wave, wind energy, I thought. Bring back horses, wind & water mills! Best of luck, I bet off grid is hard work but rewarding.

45349 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Bruno, 1, #1313 of 1906 🔗

Many thanks… Indeed it is both! We’re not 100% there yet, and it feels like we’ve taken a step backwards getting a phone line and internet, but in truth, it’s an improvement over smart phones and mobile data.

45306 ▶▶ guy153, replying to OKUK, 4, #1314 of 1906 🔗

I wonder if an inheritance tax cut is what’s needed to make step 4 of the strategy appeal to homo economicus. Going to the pub now entails both free beer and certain death, but a financial incentive has only been provided for the former. I shall suggest this to Cummings.

45372 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to OKUK, 2, #1315 of 1906 🔗

To me there is no risk to assess. Certainly not one that an average person could or should need to do.

The personal risk to most is virtually zero. The main risk we are told is that of passing on the virus to those most at risk.

So in order to do a risk assessment one has to consider such things as:

Who and how many people are in the higher risk category
The probability of being infected at any particular moment in time
The probability of passing on that infection to somebody who is not infected at any particular moment in time
The probability of that person going on to infect somebody else
The probability of that person infecting somebody who is in the higher risk category
How many degrees of interaction before an infected person linked to yourself infects a person in the higher risk category
How many people they can reasonably expect to interact with within a specified time period
The probability of anybody infected actually becoming ill enough to require hospitalisation or die

Some, all or none of the people who have died may or may not be linked to any source of contact with a particular individual.

So where does anybody even begin a meaningful risk assessment?

45507 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #1316 of 1906 🔗

I’d like to see us investing in food self-sufficiency myself. Everything else can come second.

45264 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 8, #1317 of 1906 🔗

From a thread below, it seems like smoking might have some protective effect against Covid – shock horror! lol

About 25 years ago, when I was still a smoker, I used to enjoy asking the militant anti-smokers which country had twice the world average for the per capita amount of smoking? Blank look – I would tell them “Japan”. Then ask which country had the best longevity record in the world..again a blank look. Then I would tell them: “Japan”.

Things may have changed since then but the idea that there was an absolute correlation between smoking and bad health was never sound.

45302 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to OKUK, 1, #1318 of 1906 🔗

Actually this is not so new news. Back in April a research team discovered that smoking gave some protection, probably the tar coating the lungs shielded them from the virus, which is really remarkable, at least there is some benefit to the 30 a day habit I used to have.

45305 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1319 of 1906 🔗

Basically Bella you are Batfink! With wings (lungs) of steel to protect you!

45505 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, #1320 of 1906 🔗

There is no tar coating the lungs of smokers. Possibly a misconception caused by the ‘coal mining black lung photos’ used on cigarette packets.

45274 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 14, #1321 of 1906 🔗

Morning, I’m struggling again with it all today, especially if they’re pushing for mask wearing. I will not wear one for, among other reasons, a disease with such a low IFR and with such weak and limited evidence supporting their efficacy. On the keep Britain free website there is a daily death count, does anyone know the source of the figures for this rolling count? Thanks. Got to get to work now, hoping that it’ll take my mind off things.

45334 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Moomin, 2, #1322 of 1906 🔗

Same here. Couldn’t sleep.

45336 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Moomin, 3, #1323 of 1906 🔗

UK govt data for daily death count, links also take you to interactive maps, lots of interesting stuff here:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=ltlas&map=rate&area=e07000080
If you’re still in work, that’s great, try not to worry! if you have your health and people to talk to, real or virtual, even better.

45359 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Bruno, 2, #1324 of 1906 🔗

Thanks Sylvie, I’m self-employed so I’m still in work but it has slowed down quite a bit this month and was less last month so I’m starting to get worried about that too as I haven’t really recovered from the last crash! Most people I talk to are either lockdown zealots or agnostics. We’re due to see some friends next week and I’m anxious because I don’t know how they feel (probably pro from what I can tell). Apparently, even though I’ve been critically thinking about this and looking at the evidence, according to some I could be brainwashed since I have done this, i.e. absurdly brainwashed by the empirical, objective evidence, yet it is everyone else who’s been brainwashed by the one sided reporting and government spin. It winds me up and really depresses me, I don’t think I’ve ever felt this depressed to be honest.

45338 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Moomin, 6, #1325 of 1906 🔗

Hope you`re ok. I was feeling very low about it all last week. This week (after 118 days) my parents decided to stop treating my children and myself as dangerous bio-hazards and to visit and hug us. Suddenly the world seems like a better place. Hope you have people to hug.

45379 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to watashi, 1, #1326 of 1906 🔗

Yes it’s funny, this, I’m one of the grandparents blithely disregarding all the nonsense and saying it’s not cholera or polio, for heaven’s sake. I’ve washed my hands, so have you, give us a hug! But I’ve learned it’s best not to try and argue people out of their fears (which in my case is their fears for me!), just do what’s comfortable for them and stay friends. That will last a lot longer than this situation, believe me.

45275 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 20, #1327 of 1906 🔗

Apt excerpt from James Perloff:

Thomas Jefferson said:

Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day. I really look with commiseration over the great body of my fellow citizens, who, reading newspapers, live and die in the belief that they have known something of what has been passing in the world.

(Letter to John Norvell, June 14, 1807)

Today, of course, mass media takes many forms besides newspapers. But the standards Jefferson spoke of haven’t changed. “Television network newscast” might be substituted for “newspaper” in the above paragraph. Jefferson further said:

I will add, that the man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them; inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods and errors.

In a world complicated by many lies, telling the truth is sometimes not enough. It is often important to disprove the lies – especially ones that, through the psychological ploy of repetition, have been embedded in the public mind as facts by the corporate media. With the lies washed away, the truth becomes easier to see.

45287 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1328 of 1906 🔗

Really interesting post. Thank you.

45501 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1329 of 1906 🔗

He was a cracker, Jefferson. Try telling what he said to bbc devotees though.

45613 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, #1330 of 1906 🔗

It’s what the papers say, you know it’s true… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0uQkXHXB4g

45277 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1331 of 1906 🔗

https://insidehmcts.blog.gov.uk/2020/07/01/coronavirus-recovering-in-our-courts-and-tribunals/

“Prioritise the most urgent cases”. This is why – in my area at least – the police simply aren’t arresting people for ‘low level’ assaults and drug offences. Because the courts simply won’t process them.

45279 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 17, #1332 of 1906 🔗

So, if you get a police “fine” for not wearing a mask in a Scottish shop, DON’T PAY IT. Fill in the form attached to the notice and send it back (RECORDED DELIVERY) saying that you DENY the offence and want to plead your case in court. This automatically cancels the police “fine” and the police have to report the matter to the Procurator Fiscal who decides whether or not to take the case to court. The chances of being taken to court are NIL in the current climate. Even when things are back to normal in the courts, the PF will mark the case for an “alternative to prosecution” or “no proceedings-triviality”. An alternative is likely to be a PF warning letter saying “don’t do it again or else….”. You can reply to this saying you WILL, of course, do it again. But they still won’t take you to court, too busy, courts too full, too much hassle etc.

45282 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Gillian, 11, #1333 of 1906 🔗

Thanks, so if it’s virtually impossible to enforce why bring the rule in??

On a side note I noticed somebody who parked their car outside my house (probably a hospital worker in the hospital opposite me) yesterday dropped their filthy used mask in the gutter outside my drive so. I’m making an assumption but said mask wasn’t there in the morning and appeared when said car left later in the afternoon.

I’m going to leave a note and mask under the windscreen wiper with a gentle reminder to dispose of their virtue signalling useless mask responsibly.

45284 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 7, #1334 of 1906 🔗

You know the answer to your own question – social shaming causes destabilisation or conformity. They want either/both.

45288 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 2, #1335 of 1906 🔗

Yep, I know, just wanted to make sure i’m not going mad

45303 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 2, #1336 of 1906 🔗

You are plenty sane! Quite impressively so imo.

45319 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to stefarm, 3, #1337 of 1906 🔗

Should face masks be disposed of as biologically hazardous material?

45321 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #1338 of 1906 🔗

I’ve asked this question and posted it a few times. I’ve seen a few deposited around my local area mostly on the nearby bike path which has plenty of people using the paths.

I believe it is collected as medical waste in hospitals/surgeries. Guidance is to put the mask in a separate plastic bag and deposit in a bin, doubling the plastic waste, how ironic…… pollution x 2 and totally avoidable. No doubt there also many dumped on public transport.

45342 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stefarm, 2, #1339 of 1906 🔗

How did you survive picking up such a deadly item?

45392 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to stefarm, 2, #1340 of 1906 🔗

I saw about half a dozen on the floor in the supermarket car park today – disgusting and probably the same people that don’t take the trolley back.

45373 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #1341 of 1906 🔗

This question to every mask wearer.

45396 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #1342 of 1906 🔗

Great question to ask! Where are the ‘hazardous waste’ bins?

45400 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Carrie, 1, #1343 of 1906 🔗

Perhaps we should all ring up the local council scroungers whenever we see an abandoned muzzle and report it as hazardous waste – maybe there’s an online form for it?

45320 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 3, #1344 of 1906 🔗

God, I’ve just re-read this and sound like a right curtain twitcher. I only happened to notice the mask when I returned from my daily jog. Anyhoo, it’s been deposited on the aerial of said car.

45283 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 9, #1345 of 1906 🔗
45289 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to smileymiley, 5, #1346 of 1906 🔗

He has been saying the same thing for months now, but nobody in government takes any notice. Why?

45295 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cecil B, 8, #1347 of 1906 🔗

Because they have a Green Agenda which all this is linked to, and they couldn’t push ahead with it if things were ‘normal’. The throwing money at everyone is just smoke and mirrors. The government is determined to push ahead with being Green at any cost. They are Fools!

45314 ▶▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Bella Donna, 18, #1348 of 1906 🔗

There is absolutely nothing Green about the lockdown.
Car use and traffic congestion is back to normal, while public transport runs nearly empty and loses any ecological advantage over the car.
Political parties and pressure groups cannot meet and organise.
PPE is causing billions of single use plastic items to be thrown away, many as litter.
Vital work on developing nuclear and renewable energy is not getting done.
Poverty and hardship worldwide is causing more armed conflict.

45347 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 1, #1349 of 1906 🔗

Seen what Greenpeace have done to Parliament Square today? Madness.. and yet they get away with it..

45498 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 1, #1350 of 1906 🔗

Donations must be falling …

45597 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #1351 of 1906 🔗

It doesn’t make sense for the Tories to have a green agenda, apart from as mere virtue signalling. They’re just not that environmentally concerned.

45313 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to smileymiley, #1352 of 1906 🔗

Some welcome sanity in this mad world

45333 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to smileymiley, 1, #1353 of 1906 🔗

Ah, well written, interesting and insightful – I wasn’t fully aware of the 7 level system – hierarchy of evidence. It makes a lot of sense. Shame I can’t get into the comments!

45297 guy153, 8, #1354 of 1906 🔗

A good summary of the situation regarding T-cell immunity:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0389-z

The only comment I would add to it is that there is no reason to believe that the handful of common cold coronaviruses known to science is anything like the complete set. They only get identified when someone happens to have a severe disease and someone else whose research interest is sequencing viral genomes happens to be lurking around at the hospital. I would expect there to be hundreds of them and the cross-immunity could be coming from any of them.

45301 Basics, 10, #1355 of 1906 🔗

Sky News reporting PHE Public Health England ‘hand-cranked’ the testing numbers. As in full on Eff you guys we are just going to make this up on scraps of paper and fudge the hell out of it.

A really tiny snippet from the guy who does the sky news statistical presenting Ed Conway. The have been investigated and ‘really surprised’ at the mess they are finding.

So their bullshit-o-meter has suddenly been given a tap and sprung temporarily into life. For how long?

45304 IanE, replying to IanE, 13, #1356 of 1906 🔗

Sherelle Jacobs hitting the nail on the head again at the DT.

“No 10 has just fallen into the jaws of Britain’s most dangerous political paradox”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/09/no-10-has-just-fallen-jaws-britains-dangerous-political-paradox/

I particularly liked the sentence:-

‘This Tory regime – which has no idea how it won a landslide or how to lead, let alone in a crisis – desperately wants to reenact the Blair Illusion.’

45389 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 4, #1357 of 1906 🔗

West Midlanders want to ease social distancing rules in favour of face masks in theatres and rock venues

It’s insidious isn’t it? We’ll wear masks if you’ll let us out of lockup a bit more …….

45446 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1358 of 1906 🔗

Are the performers wearing masks then? Or only when they are offstage because being onstage confers a remarkable level of immunity (that’s what they must mean by stardust)?

45315 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 10, #1359 of 1906 🔗

Notes from Sturgeon Land: yesterday I called at local chemist to buy some pain killers.

Muzak playing as usual, compounded by the fact that an elderly man ,obviously hard of hearing was talking very loudly to the patient pharmacist trying to advise him.

Added to this, the assistant who served me wore a mask and stood behind the obligatory perspex barrier.

My hearing is good, but I was unable to understand what she was trying to tell me. Having found the tablets she lent forward to the gap in the screen while I bent my head so as to catch her speech.

Card machine pushed under barrier,transaction completed.

Such transactions used to take half the time, with less difficulty for staff and customers: life is far simpler when we can actually hear and understand one another.

Secondly, broached tomorrow’s mask directive with the friendly security bloke at the supermarket entrance: mentioned my badge-(when it arrives); what would happen?

He thought I might need a doctor’s letter-not so! He then said that it would depend entirely on who happened to be on duty, as staff had varying opinions on how to enforce the guidelines. Cue power play , officiousness and inconsistency.

He would be willing to let me pass.

However, the friendly lady on the till, whom I regularly exchange greetings with, contradicted all this advice, saying that badge/lanyard holders could not be held up and questioned by any shop staff and that she’d already assisted a woman wearing a lanyard a few days previously.

This will not end well; it’s unnecessary, the potential for conflict and confusion and general dismay is substantial.

Why won’t these politicos listen to the likes of Dr John Lee?

45317 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendyk, 12, #1360 of 1906 🔗

I’m going to be playing the medical exemption card TBF masks wearers do give me a scare and put me Ill at ease and raise my anxiety. If questioned my standard reply will be that I will not be discussing my private medical details with anyone other than my GP.

He only thought a doctor’s letter….the lack of any definitive guidance for shop staff is laughable and shows the sham for what it is.

The chance of me seeing a GP at my surgery is virtually nil and the chances of getting a letter (I do have an instance of anxiety and treatment on my medical file) is less than nil.

45318 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stefarm, 8, #1361 of 1906 🔗

Quite correct. This is unnecessary and unworkable. Power play by Holyrood and what a farce.

45362 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 8, #1362 of 1906 🔗

I encourage anyone to talk to shop staff and others. It really is a simple way to set your mind at rest and also fight back against the mask.

18 cases per 100,000 in Scotland yesterday.. not ill just cases. Staff are as skeptical as anyone.

Have a chat, ask about how the shop intends to act. They cannot enforce anything and have no right to ask for medical certs or even ask for your health conditions. The staff will tell you in a friendly way. Polite chats are good!

45322 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 7, #1363 of 1906 🔗

“the lack of any definitive guidance for shop staff is laughable and shows the sham for what it is.”

I completely agree.

Consider the perspective of the shop worker. Stress level increase for them also on the singular point of how they should act, are they really going to dial 999 – 101 is choked already. So how do they act – some security may stop entry, but shop workers themselves? Mostly all have worked without masks throughout. You see staff pulling masks down to talk to one another. It is insanity – not them – it.

This is not how you run an anti-plague effort. It is something else entirely.

45325 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 6, #1364 of 1906 🔗

The till lady I spoke to uses an inhaler, as do several of her colleagues-therefore exempt- and she agreed that all are well, despite having been maskless for the past 4 months!

45328 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to wendyk, 3, #1365 of 1906 🔗

I’ve just watched the latest Jane Godley’s Nicola Sturgeon voiceover. I’ve realised it isn’t actually satire she’s doing. Jane Godley is anything but a lockdown sceptic. She thinks Nicola Sturgeon is great. The comments bear this out. Here’s one: “Harnessing Janey’s humour to the narrative has been a Godsend gettin’ the message through unlike the chaotic advice south of junction 44.” Help mah bob. Poor Scotland.

45331 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Jane in France, 3, #1366 of 1906 🔗

It’s quite desperate; the slavish cultish acceptance of everything issuing from Holyrood.

45337 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Jane in France, 2, #1367 of 1906 🔗

I really liked her Boris and Cummings videos, but after a few of the Sturgeon videos it wasn’t funny any more. It was quite repetitive and not really satirical. Shame because there is comedy potential in Sturgeon’s press conferences.
For me Andrew Lawrence on the other hand has shined like a star. Quite a few laugh out loud funny videos.

45345 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to James007, 1, #1368 of 1906 🔗

Definitely; they are hysterically funny!

45383 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to wendyk, 5, #1369 of 1906 🔗

As a Scottish lady said on Talk Radio this morning, having it mandated that people had to wear masks at a time the virus is disappearing or becoming less virulent when they didn’t when it was a much higher risk in the population back in March and April.

45580 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lms23, #1370 of 1906 🔗

Is it criminal neglect from their point of view not to have mandated earlier.. there’s no new revelating evidence masks are wonderful. Less so the face coverings.

45323 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 21, #1371 of 1906 🔗

And here is a sad story which reflects the damage being done to people’s lives by this Coronadrama : local builder came to do some maintenance work yesterday.

His son, aged only 31, has just been made redundant, so no longer eligible for furlough payments; added to this he’s just been diagnosed with a benign pituitary tumour which is causing unfortunate hormonal effects and he and his wife have lost their baby.

What a triple whammy for this young family: yes, the tumour would have appeared in any case, but to lose one’s job and one’s young baby as well.

Fortunately, his condition was diagnosed quickly and treatment has commenced, while he tries to find self employed work.

This is being replicated across the UK, while our useless leaders boss us about, create unnecessary divisions and implement yet more useless and inconsistent control measures.

45358 ▶▶ IanE, replying to wendyk, 6, #1372 of 1906 🔗

Heavens, I hope there will be a reckoning sometime!

45329 Cbird, replying to Cbird, 1, #1373 of 1906 🔗

Anyone seen this? Good: sage being sidelined; not so good: more secrecy. But….

Sage sidelined as ‘secretive’ unit takes over control of virus response
Sage sidelined as ‘secretive’ unit takes over control of virus response

http://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/284/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/284/pub/284/page/20/article/60194

45335 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Cbird, 1, #1374 of 1906 🔗

Tom likes this 👍🏻

45352 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cbird, 1, #1375 of 1906 🔗

There’s some serious misinformaiton in the comments. Get yourselves in there and educate some people!

45376 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, #1376 of 1906 🔗

Only subscribers can comment now, unfortunately.

45381 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, 3, #1377 of 1906 🔗

I took out a trial subscription: £1 per month for three months.
I’ve no intention of becoming a full subscriber but I’m making the most of the comment-posting opportunity.

Plenty of other Torygraph subscribers here on LS though.

45375 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cbird, 4, #1378 of 1906 🔗

“Prof Michie, the director of the UCL Centre for Behaviour Change, added: “I think that this is circumventing Sage. There has been no explanation as to why there is a change in the system, it appears to have been set up without transparency or an explanation of the rationale.””

Oh, dear. A Communist complaining that the government is doing stuff without her approval.

45385 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, 2, #1379 of 1906 🔗

So much for behavioural psychology. You’d think she’d have seen it coming!

45491 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lms23, #1380 of 1906 🔗

She’s lucky to have been circumvented rather than defenestrated.

45432 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cbird, 1, #1381 of 1906 🔗

On 15 June 2020, the head of the body designed to suppress new coronavirus outbreaks said ‘it will not be able to provide information on local clusters until August’.* Funnily enough though, the ONS was actually able to provide enough information to enable Leicester’s lockdown only a fortnight later, at end of June, so what extra information is being collected and collated by her unit is anybody’s guess.

*(Dr Clare Gardiner told MPs on the Housing, Communities and Local Government committee the Joint Biosecurity Centre (JBC) centre was already providing national level data to ministers.
But she said the organisation would not be fully able to do the same on a local level until the end of the summer:
“The capability we are trying to build is quite complex and it will take time. The expectation is that we will be at full (capacity) by the end of the summer”.
The centre was announced with great fanfare as part of the UK’s road map out of lockdown in May. Part of NHS test and trace contact tracing programme, it is designed to be an early warning system. It was initially supposed to set the government’s Covid-19 ‘alert level’, to communicate the current level of risk.
But No 10 was later forced to say it would “inform” that decision, after the intervention of the government’s medical advisers.)

So it now looks like her unit got its way and will report direct to No 10 – when they’ve got some ‘useful’ data out of the track and trace system, obviously.

45436 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Cbird, 2, #1382 of 1906 🔗

Its very worrying to have a secretive unit managing the response to a so called public health emergency in a so called parliamentary democracy – not sure why any sane person would consider that to be OK.

Its interesting that we have the British army openly saying how its engaged in information warfare with the British people. I thought waging war against a civilian population was itself a war crime – or is that only when its a shooting war and waging information warfare against a civilian population is OK?

45494 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Saved To Death, #1383 of 1906 🔗

Sanity is much rarer than you’d think, STD. The secret squirrels should indeed be restricted to their reservations.

45330 Steve Hayes, #1384 of 1906 🔗

Ministers could, in principle, amend the Regulations to change this expiry date, but doesn’t this require Parliament’s consent?

No. Part 2 Section 90 of the Coronavirus Act 2020 gives the government the power to change or extend any power by ministerial fiat.

45332 Cbird, replying to Cbird, #1385 of 1906 🔗

Contd. But…

Potentially good: she’s a statistician. Also good: Prof Spiegelhalter is impressed

Statistician with a hint of spy may be perfect fit for new role
Statistician with a hint of spy may be perfect fit for new role

http://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/284/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/284/pub/284/page/21/article/60191

45348 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cbird, 1, #1386 of 1906 🔗

There’s some serious misinformaiton in the comments. Get yourselves in there and educate some people!

45406 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cbird, 1, #1387 of 1906 🔗

Dr Clare Gardiner, new head of the JBSC (can this be the right person?), says she ‘joined the University of Sheffield in 2015 as a Vice-Chancellor’s Fellow, undertaking a Fellowship project on the costs of palliative care in the last six months of life. I have been involved in palliative and end of life care research for over 8 years, and have published over 50 papers in peer review journals…’
An interesting field for someone advising on managing the way out of lockdown. Perhaps, guy153, we shall see some incentives rather more drastic than reducing inheritance tax.

45339 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #1388 of 1906 🔗

Interesting developments in Japan. No need to panic is the message there:

Hundreds of Cases, But No Lockdown: What’s Changed in Japan?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-08/hundreds-of-cases-but-no-lockdown-what-s-changed-in-japan

While some countries have responded to a resurgence of infections with stricter measures — Australia’s second-largest city plunged into lockdown for the second time in four months, and Beijing confined whole neighborhoods to their homes to bring an outbreak under control — Tokyo is taking a more muted approach, arguing that this time is different.

45355 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1389 of 1906 🔗

Never mind, the BBC is supplying any shortage of terrified panic!

45343 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 15, #1390 of 1906 🔗

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/coronavirus-scotland-live-further-phase-18559030.amp

Quite possibly pish, headlines:

Only two new cases of the virus were reported in Scotland yesterday..wowsers

Face coverings will also become mandatory in shops from this week, however a **Scottish cot death charity have warned parents not to put one on their baby due to the high risk of suffocation**….what about all other people???

The death toll in Scotland now stands at 2489 – 0.000461% of pop (happy to be corrected)

Accidental deaths in Scotland
2016 1553
2017 1579
2018 1536

Phew, this covid is a real bastard.

45353 ▶▶ IanE, replying to stefarm, 8, #1391 of 1906 🔗

2 zeroes too many – actually about 0.046% of population. Still, the point is made!

45761 ▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, #1392 of 1906 🔗

Parents would put one on their baby? If not warned against it?
Jeeeeesus Christ.

45351 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, 6, #1393 of 1906 🔗

My big worry right now is that the compulsory face mask laws are extended and they don’t go away.

So I have created this petition:

No compulsory face masks without a referendum

This petition calls on the government to first obtain approval, via a UK-wide referendum, before implementing any legislation that requires the public to wear face masks in public spaces. In addition, existing face mask rules must not be allowed to continue without such approval.

Wearing face masks in public spaces is a potentially huge change to our way of life and our culture. Yet, face mask rules have been implemented without proper debate and full consideration of the pros and cons. Making such rules subject to a referendum will provide opportunity for a full debate where all of the scientific evidence can be scrutinised and the public can give their consent or otherwise.

As usual, this petition needs just 5 supporters to get it to the stage where it goes to parliament’s petitions committee for approval. This process is a right pain and currently seems to be taking about 4 to 5 weeks.

So for now, all that I need is 5 supporters to sign it here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/330936/sponsors/new?token=1JgGFRcKZC-U2hlH_Vhx

If it won’t let you sign, that’s because its already got enough support at this stage.

Once it gets approved (in about 4 to 5 weeks), then I will post a link here for everyone to sign it.

For now, this is just a case of planting this petition ready for when this argument kicks off properly – which I’m sure it will do in the coming months.

45361 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #1394 of 1906 🔗

Signed

45366 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Back To Normal, 15, #1395 of 1906 🔗

I’m not sure I’d want a referendum. The constant brainwashing over CV19 and masks has been too effective, so that 25% of parents don’t want their children to go back to school in September, because “it’s not safe,” and too many still believe it’s too soon to lift lockdown. We’re now hearing about the surge in new cases but silence on the number of deaths. I don’t trust the British public anymore to show common sense.
If masks weren’t necessary back in March, why should masks be necessary now when the virus is disappearing?

45371 ▶▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Lms23, 2, #1396 of 1906 🔗

I understand your point – a referendum is a risk when the public is currently brainwashed. I’m thinking more in terms of where we will be in maybe 3 to 6 months time. If the government want us to wear face masks indefinitely then the public should be allowed to give their consent. This process will actually mean there is a debate and evidence will be shown etc. If the majority of the public still agree with that after being shown the evidence, then its time to emigrate.

45388 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #1397 of 1906 🔗

My worry-and I do support your petition-is that in the ‘new normal’-ominous phrase-the powers that be might use mask wearing as a type of political/social barter: ‘wear the masks, lockdowns will be relaxed more speedily and work , family and social life can resume as before’.

I could be wrong-I hope I am-but with the nudging, propagandising and point scoring now blighting public life I could see this strategy being adopted, along with the requisite deniability.

In other words, the trail to find where the buck stops will dematerialise.

Very cynical, but cynicism dominates my perspective on current events.

45374 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, 5, #1398 of 1906 🔗

I agree with Lms2.

I strongly suspect the sheeple will overwhelmingly vote yes to masks.

The propaganda campaign has only just started and by the time this petition get approval, people will probably be happily wearing them anyway.

I support your desire to resist but we need something to work right now.

45380 ▶▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1399 of 1906 🔗

So do I. Referendum far too risky

45377 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lms23, 7, #1400 of 1906 🔗

I agree, they’re not necessary – far from it. This is not a health measure but most people will believe that it is even though the epidemic is over.

In the unlikely event of this getting anywhere it could backfire very badly as you and Drawde927 point out.

45394 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Lms23, 2, #1401 of 1906 🔗

Quite. Let the sheeple decide and you know what the outcome would be …

45427 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Lms23, 1, #1402 of 1906 🔗

No to a referendum, far too many gullible people think we’re all doomed as it is. I certainly won’t wear one as is my human right.

45438 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1403 of 1906 🔗

Human rights didn’t stop concentration camps Bella. You have no human rights if they are not administered. ‘Human rights’ is a concept enshrined by tolerance and there is no tolerance to dissent today. Human rights carries no water whatsoever, it’s rise up or shut up. We are at that stage, don’t understand how people don’t see it.

45481 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella, 1, #1404 of 1906 🔗

Even ‘administered’ doesn’t cut it. The concept, imho, is enshrined by freedom not tolerance, hence the essential nature of the right to bears arms.

45581 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #1405 of 1906 🔗

Bit of a giveaway! I keep pointing out that we were warned.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/the-sinister-threat-to-human-rights-buried-in-the-conservative-manifesto-brexit-european-convention

“… ensure that there is a proper balance between the rights of individuals, our vital national security and effective government”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-manifesto-human-rights-act-update-boris-johnson-national-security-a9216146.html

Note the three-part slogan!

45754 ▶▶▶ Graham, replying to Lms23, #1406 of 1906 🔗

I agree. If 51% of the great British public want me to wear a mask they can still piss off.

45760 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Graham, #1407 of 1906 🔗

If 99%want it they can still piss off.

45369 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Back To Normal, 4, #1408 of 1906 🔗

Also signed!
Though it wouldn’t surprise me if the result of the referendum was “yes”… having said that, surely in a month or so, let alone two or three months, the number of cases in the UK will be so low that most people will see the truth (Then again, I thought the same a month ago).

My biggest concern with masks is neither the personal discomfort or disagreement with the whole philosophy of compulsory mask-wearing (though those are both factors) but that they will perpetuate the whole “new normal” situation of constant low-level anxiety and paranoia and prevent people’s behaviour slowly relaxing into a more or less “old normal” situation, as is happening in France for example.
It’s tempting to think that’s exactly the intention behind compulsory masks, but I think it’s just political window-dressing.

45390 ▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, #1409 of 1906 🔗

Ok, thanks for those who have supported this – its got the necessary support now.

45395 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Back To Normal, 5, #1410 of 1906 🔗

This, from Peter Hitchens’ Twitter today, is somewhat worrying: ‘In the meantime, the Gov have recently issued guidance for implementing Sch 21 of the CV Act, which confers the right to remove, detain, test and restrict children and adults, which suggests they now intend to start using this power.’
Not good!

45403 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, 1, #1411 of 1906 🔗

As ordered by the WOH months ago – there is a video if you can still find it of their top spokesman (an Irish guy) stating exactly this.

45399 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Back To Normal, 12, #1412 of 1906 🔗

You are asking people to vote for their own subjugation – and they will. Don’t people realise the implications of this? To avoid it being seen as blatant hypocrisy then anything that uses the voice can no longer be tenable. No singing, no public speaking, no concerts, no drama, no voice . Understand they are taking away your voice . I am astonished that people don’t see this. A referendum gives the concept respectability, and it doesn’t deserve that. No kissing, no loving, no joy. Let me ask those who are even considering this: what do you think happens to the air if everyone wears mask? Does it stay uncontaminated and we all just breathe our recycled air? Of course not. What happens if you take your mask off to sleep, or to bathe or to eat? Does the air outside of your body remain miraculously uncontaminated when you do? Of course not. The very fact that you would give mask wearing respectability by calling for a referendum is abhorrent. Masks cannot possibly be effective – and this doesn’t even take into account the people who will have exemptions. Or are they to be quarantined into concentration camps? Masks is a POLITICAL gambit – nothing less. Wake up and rise up. Otherwise you might as well be dead. because at the very least we’ll all be zombies. I despair that people in this forum are prepared to give the concept respectability by even signing a petition.

45408 ▶▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Bella, 2, #1413 of 1906 🔗

I am not actually calling for a referendum – this would only be needed if the government was forcing us to wear masks indefinitely (by which time our cause is lost otherwise). I am attempting to put a brake on the government from going any further or allowing the current rules to continue.

I find mask wearing as abhorrent as you do, believe me.

45418 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Back To Normal, 3, #1414 of 1906 🔗

Just go onto Twitter Adam. The outcry in favour of making mask wearing compulsory is frightening. And they are all convinced it is for the common good. How distressing it is that people are so easily brainwashed.

45428 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bella, 4, #1415 of 1906 🔗

All twats with too much time on their hands. Rishi needs to end Furlough yesterday

45484 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1416 of 1906 🔗

Probably not a good idea for us to depend on this shower doing anything to improve things.

45431 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Back To Normal, 2, #1417 of 1906 🔗

Then why are you willing to petition for a referendum. Look I don’t care if anyone wants to wear a mask just as long as I am not required to do so. Getting up a petition just encourages them! I’d prefer one saying No to Masks.

45451 ▶▶▶▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #1418 of 1906 🔗

Then sign this one instead: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/325079
Or create your own, but lets not just sit back and let the government do what they want. I repeat, using different language this time, my petition is an insurance policy in case all else fails – I am not actually “calling” for a referendum – please read it again.

45415 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella, 2, #1419 of 1906 🔗

I strongly agree.

45479 ▶▶ davews, replying to Back To Normal, 2, #1420 of 1906 🔗

Signed. Not that these petitions ever achieve anything.

45575 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Back To Normal, #1421 of 1906 🔗

Shared elswhere with replies of done.

45354 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #1422 of 1906 🔗

Dr Fauci, who for months said the face masks were of no use for the general public explained his revised position that face mask wearing by the general public is effective, not by citing new scientific research that over turned the previous knowledge, but by claiming that he (and by extension CDC, WHO, et al) had been lying. He justified the lying by claiming that he had wanted to protect face mask supplies for health workers.

45360 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #1423 of 1906 🔗

Yikes – but, of course , we can now trust him implicitly!

45407 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #1424 of 1906 🔗

.

45423 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve Hayes, #1425 of 1906 🔗

Do any of them wear face masks? My guess is they don’t.

45364 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1426 of 1906 🔗

Maybe a little bit off-topic but this was published in 2005 when Fauci was Director of the NIH in the US, no vaccine needed:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16115318/

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1743-422X-2-69

So why is he now pushing the expensive and untried RNA vaccine route?

I’d put my money on betting there is no profit in HCQ treatment at $0.93 a treatment but his friend Bill Gates will make billions in RNA vaccines at $4000 a shot.

45421 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1427 of 1906 🔗

That’s how I view it too. It’s about making money not saving lives.

45442 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #1428 of 1906 🔗

I think it goes beyond simply making money now – its about full spectrum domination of humanity.

45574 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Saved To Death, #1429 of 1906 🔗

I am thinking more likely control. To methis does not feel at all like a feeding frenzy.

45367 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1430 of 1906 🔗

There’s a big difference between a face mask and a face covering.

If the requirement is merely to cover the nose and mouth, you won’t need to cover half of your face and you can leave yourself loads of ventilation.

I’ve been experimenting :

A piece of toilet paper is big enough to cover your nose and mouth – no I’m not suggesting you use toilet paper, it will disintegrate!

For those who wear glasses, attaching a bit of lightweight cloth to the lower frames, (or from the wings) and leaving it to dangle over your nose and mouth should suffice. You can breathe pretty normally and it doesn’t feel claustrophobic and sweaty.

Try it with a bit of toilet paper, just hold it below your eyes….

Other suggestions for non glasses-wearers: Cut up an old pair of boxers and use the waistband to go round your head, with some of the leg side to dangle as a flap to just below your mouth. No need to sew, just use a safety pin to adjust head size. Same for knickers but use the back as the flap.

If you have an old pair of sunglasses, do as for glasses-wearers but remove the lenses – or not, depending on the weather and whether you want to look inscrutible!

Keep fabric as light as possible – I’d be tempted to use j-cloth just to make a point – but handkerchief fabric or a bit of old shirt would work.

Because it’s flat, you could write a slogan on your nose and mouth covering too!

45422 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1431 of 1906 🔗

Perhaps its better just to refuse to wear unnecessary face coverings at all? If we submit to this however vaguely it only leads to the next set of demands. Submission in any way is not going to help us.

45561 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #1432 of 1906 🔗

I competely agree with you and there’s no way I’d willingly wear a face nappy!

My suggestions here were for situations, such as that which seems to threaten the Scots and public transport users, for a mitigated and slightly rebellious semi-submission.

45424 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1433 of 1906 🔗

Government Guidance is actually to use a cut up old T-shirt. The Guidance even contains a how to section, very reminiscent of Blue Peter.

45567 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steve Hayes, #1434 of 1906 🔗

They cover most of the lower face. Warm and suffocating? More comfy than those awful blue disposable things though!

45639 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #1435 of 1906 🔗

Methinks we could make use of a picture of someone in a cut-up t-shirt mask next to one of a lab scientist in full hazmat suit and put suitable captions underneath: Virus lab protection versus UK government-endorsed protective face covering – who’s the expert? Or something suitable that makes the point…
We could print flyers and hand them out or leave them around..

45437 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1436 of 1906 🔗

A false santa beard

45565 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #1437 of 1906 🔗

A bit warm if we’re lucky to have a summer.

45585 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, #1438 of 1906 🔗

I’m going the other way. Complete and total blackout face mask. Balaclava.
Basically if they want me to cover half my face I’ll cover it all and walk around looking like a criminal. I will look like the dehumanised, sinister shadow of a person they want me to be. Good luck identifying me when I start graffitiing covid-1984 signage.

45589 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 1, #1439 of 1906 🔗

Also nice and warm in winter – bonus. But way more effective in summer when the only people wearing such things would be robbing a bank.

45368 WillemKoppenhol, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 8, #1440 of 1906 🔗

Oxfam published a report titled “The Hunger Virus: How COVID-19 Is Fueling Hunger In A Hungry World” . The better title would have been “The Hunger Virus: How COVID-19 Lock-downs Are Fueling Hunger In A Hungry World”. Notice however the absence of what REALLY is fueling hunger in the rest of the world: the “First World” COVID-19 lock-downs. Anyway, see https://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/research-publications/hunger-virus-how-covid-19-fueling-hunger-hungry-world/ for the complete text.

Here is my question to you, the one I have not been able to answer so far myself: this was always known. Even before European states went into lock-down people (and I bet quite a few of those are active on this website!) were already saying “Don’t do it, the damage cause by lock-downs will be catastrophical, for instance for the Third World!” Why didn’t the ones for whom this must have been logical as well say so at the time? What could be their reason for remaining silent? Because if you pretend are the one speaking on behalf of subject A, wouldn’t you immediately recognize the damage to A if someone proposed a policy with the unfortunate spillover effect that A would become collateral damage? And if so say so very loudly?!

Then why didn’t Oxfam do that to avoid the damage they are now talking about…?

(No points for “you don’t get money for avoiding problems” because not everybody at such an organization can be that cynical, and now that Western countries have not much money themselves, it’s not as if Oxfam is going to get a lot of money to solve the problem they mention, perhaps a little bit at best.)

45384 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 12, #1441 of 1906 🔗

I’ve been asking people when out and about what they will do when the food shortages start?

They look at me blank.

I explain we import a lot of our food mostly from the 3rd world, all the tea and coffee and so on and where these are grown have been locked down as well so not enough crop planting and now harvesting is getting done so when what is in the supply chain (some apples can be 3 years old when you buy them, potatoes a year or 2 old) already starts to run out in a few months where will it come from?

We are not the only country who have idiot governments and lockdowns but you wouldn’t really know it from the MSM at the moment.

Britain doesn’t grow enough potatoes, turnips and cabbages to feed us all through a winter and to last until the next harvest comes in so where does the food come from?

The most common answer? “Never thought of that”.

45386 ▶▶ Julian, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 10, #1442 of 1906 🔗

Collective hysteria is hard to explain.

Aside from people with sinister agendas of their own, who saw/see this as an opportunity to advance that agenda, a lot of other people simply believed the virus was extremely dangerous and would cause death on an unprecedented scale, and are unable to stop believing that.

45401 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 2, #1443 of 1906 🔗

That’s a good question and one that can be asked of every single charity that’s only now raising the alarm for how their causes are being harmed by all this.

45425 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1444 of 1906 🔗

Agree – while we were all painted as cranks!

45370 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #1445 of 1906 🔗

More news from the RMT union. I get their updates because I’m in a local transport group. For some reason Mick Cash and the RMT have changed their tune in the last week or so. From screaming about masks and anti-social distancing, they seem to have started noticing the effect empty trains have been having on their industry (apparently driverless trains are mooted for London as a condition of TfL getting bailed out),

Anyway, here’s the latest:

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-demands-government-support-to-protect-jobs-at-eurostar/

45387 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #1446 of 1906 🔗

A friend who works for Network Rail mentioned that they are being handed a lot of cash to keep running. Not public knowledge she said though.

45402 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1447 of 1906 🔗

I think your friend probably means the train operating companies which have indeed been bailed out:
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/ministers-confirm-35-billion-rail-bail-out/
Network Rail is a state-owned not-for-profit.private company and, according to their latest annual report, has a net debt of £54 billion (and counting, presumably!)

45378 IanE, 3, #1448 of 1906 🔗

A great reference to one of Reagan’s sayings in the comments (by Chin Tan) on a DT article about what Sunak is up to :-

“We are fast approaching the end phase of Reagan’s third stage of government: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

In the post Covid world, taxes will increase on anything still struggling to move to subsidize those that have been forbidden to move (by government decree, no less) till nothing moves except the lips of politicians.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/09/economy-has-jobs-machine-hard-see-rishi-trying-fix/

45391 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, #1449 of 1906 🔗
45398 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to smileymiley, 1, #1450 of 1906 🔗

The beginnings of Sharia Law in Western civilisation.

45397 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #1451 of 1906 🔗

Going slightly philosophical here. I keep hearing that lockdowns/actions taken have saved and are saving lives. On this I would pose the following questions:

What is the definition of a life saved? Is doing nothing saving a life because somebody didn’t die? How would you measure that? Does it matter if a person wasn’t going to die anyway, would they still count as a life saved?

Are lives only saved if action is taken? If actions prevent people from needing to be saved how do we know they would ever have needed saving? If they never need saving then how can we say they were saved?

45573 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1452 of 1906 🔗

Exactly. Another one of my favourite things to say to zealots is
“If you could save 10 lives – and 10 old people’s lives at that – by hobbling another 10,000 with a sledgehammer, would you do it?”

It’s very, very effective. They don’t know what to say, because they realise that they wouldn’t, and they know why.

45757 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1453 of 1906 🔗

Well, every time I drive a car down a high street, and don’t drive straight at people and smash them to jam,I am presumably saving lives and ought to be congratulated/clapped/hailed as a triumph of The Science.

45766 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, #1454 of 1906 🔗

Streets ought to be lined with applauding audience anytime you are motoring Annie.

45894 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, #1455 of 1906 🔗

Exactly.If I don’t shoot someone in the street then I’m saving lives. I’ve been saving lives since the day I was born, why don’t I have a gong from Buck House?

45404 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 15, #1456 of 1906 🔗

It seems I have set a cat amongst the pigeons by challenging the virtual meeting of clients policy, at the charity I work for. Raising the point that cafes, restaurants, pubs, retail etc are now all open, I asked why we as outreach youth workers are being prevented from seeing young people in their homes.

Despite a senior manager saying we should be choosing to work directly with clients wherever possible, it seems that three lower level managers are saying it is still not safe, unless the young person meets a certain “high-risk” criteria which must be “evidenced, risk assessed and approved” by not one, but FOUR individual managers. We are being asked to complete individual risk assessments on what to do if we need to use the toilet in a service user’s home. A specific risk assessment has been written about mitigating the risks because apparently using a toilet is extremely dangerous.

Sadly I now work for a charity who would rather pay me to sit at home writing risk assessments, than be out in the field actually supporting the young people who are vulnerable, and suffering as a direct result of lockdown.

Oh and to top things off, we also received an email from a director saying that our organisation supports the Black Lives Matter movement. So again, safe to protest in large crowds and pull down statues, but not safe to visit vulnerable clients in their homes “in case I pass on the virus” which the government is paying us to do.

45566 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to RDawg, 3, #1457 of 1906 🔗

Tell them they are the reason people are increasingly leary of donating their hard earned cash to organised charity

45756 ▶▶ annie, replying to RDawg, 1, #1458 of 1906 🔗

It seems that the people in your profession who actually do the job are sane, but the managers are all crackers.
Are they two completely different species?

45815 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to annie, #1459 of 1906 🔗

A classic case of people who get a little bit of power, and then let it all go to their head. Does that sound familiar? Matt Hancock…all cabinet ministers…

45405 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1460 of 1906 🔗

Evidence of the effectiveness of masks in the real world?

https://twitter.com/dermatophyte/status/1281066550116651013

Mask mandates are so effective that LA county is still recording record cases and deaths despite having one since May 14th and California cases continue to climb as the entire state has had a mask mandate in place since June 18th

For those not on Twitter the Tweet references the Worldometer stats for California showing that cases and deaths have continued to rise despite mandating the use of masks:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/california/

45410 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to Nobody2020, 13, #1461 of 1906 🔗

Obviously masks don’t work, and they knew that already, otherwise there wouldn’t have been any lockdowns, they would just mandate masks for everyone. And we could have eradicated the common cold by always using masks.

45753 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to jrsm, #1462 of 1906 🔗

Can you imagine wearing a muzzle while suffering from a cold? Eeuch.

45409 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #1463 of 1906 🔗

Sturgeon is speaking. It is absolute jibberish and impossible to follow her rules. 12 ppl do this but if they have a pet dog then wednesdays are two metre days. Even bbc cut her speach off in mid dribble to go to a pundit talking about a WMO report article. Climate death.

45412 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, 3, #1464 of 1906 🔗

Its not that complicated today – the weeee Krankie virus is just explaining why we should not visit Scotland

45430 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1465 of 1906 🔗

7 people testing positive a day in Scotland according to nik nak speech translated by Sky News. Absent is the ‘R rate’. Obvious reasons.

All of which amounts to
Scotland. Keep Clear. As Mr Major says.

45417 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #1466 of 1906 🔗

“Avoid literally like the plague large gatherings…” she is a peely-wally class act is she no.

45411 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 9, #1467 of 1906 🔗

I see MPs voted on the 6th July to bring in the changes to the IR35 (off payroll) rules next April. This was delayed for a year at the onset of Covid.

If you don’t know what this is, it’s a shambles of a set of regulations written by Labour 20 years ago so that contractors don’t work as “disguised employees” and hence pay less tax through their company (since how you choose to be remunerated from your company can have tax advantages).

The problem is that there is a real minefield in terms of contracts and what the work often entails, but HMRC appear to just broad brush everything. The other thing is that if found inside IR35 (like Eamonn Holmes) you have to pay back the tax but you also do not get any employee benefits.

Supporters of IR35 including many MP think it is tax avoidance. Of course with a nod to Bastiat there are things you don’t see.

For me, as a contractor with my own company, there’s a simple test: if being a contractor was so much better for tax, rather than being an employee, then there would be more contractors.

Funny how that isn’t the case.

But as with the Coronovirus act, MPs are voting for the active destruction of the private sector. In fact for many contractors the furloughing of staff had direct effects on them that would prove that they are not in any way employees i.e. immediate cease of work, tools down, no work no pay etc etc.

45413 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to mhcp, 3, #1468 of 1906 🔗

Sorry to add, the determination used to be on the contractor. Now it is on the end client company and last Feb March there were many shenanigans were consultancy firms were brought into assess workers, found them all inside, didn’t uplft pay for the differential (30%+) and when workers wouldn’t take the offer, replaced them with the consultant’s or consultant’s sister company employees.

Scratch your back good sir. Incidently dear old Rishi’s dad is the boss on a large Indian IT provider that does just that.

45426 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to mhcp, 1, #1469 of 1906 🔗

Father in law, not dad. And he’s founder and “chairman emeritus”, not actively the boss anymore.

45445 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to matt, #1470 of 1906 🔗

Yes. My mistake

45416 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mhcp, 3, #1471 of 1906 🔗

Know it, it’s what screwed a lot of us in 1999 when that economic illiterate Gordon Brown announced it. Lots of contractors I know lost everything hen worked dried up.

Beginning of the year the House of lords called they legislation a dog’s breakfast and it was politically motivated spite which was promising then it all net quiet.

45419 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1472 of 1906 🔗

Yep. Rather than go down the rabbit hole on how it is idiocy, I think it’s another one of those points that our so-called Conservative government is only “big business friendly”. And yet something like over 90% of the private sector is small to medium businesses.

45440 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to mhcp, 2, #1473 of 1906 🔗

Well they are busy ‘fixing’ the over dependence on small and medium business problem so soon that wont be an issue. It will of course require poverty and destitution for many but its a small price to pay to help those big businesses succeed.

45444 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to mhcp, #1474 of 1906 🔗

There are upsides and downsides to being self employed. Risk and reward. End of story.

45452 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bruno, 1, #1475 of 1906 🔗

Downside of IR35 was losing everything due to Government incompetence, greed and political dogmatism and not losing everything due to something I had done to cause a failure.

45457 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bruno, 1, #1476 of 1906 🔗

I agree with you on being self-employed. However if you have your own company you are employed by that, even a one man band. So the circumstances and nuances are different. A lot of small tech companies bootstrap use funds from contracting (not everyone takes the most of money out of the company as dividends). I do that.

This allows for some to spend more hours developing ideas instead of working just as a hired gun. At times for a few years the only income comes from contracting while you build IP or projects. That’s the nature of a lot of businesses.

What IR35 is supposed to do is draw a fine line but the problem is the idea is ludicrous and just driven by envy. What will happen going forward if it sticks is that any income you get to your company will be taxed as salary. Which leads to why would you have a company in the first place as you still have the overheads?

Why indeed.

45634 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, #1477 of 1906 🔗

Out of interest, will that stop TV ‘stars’ avoiding tax by routing their income through private companies?

45734 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, #1478 of 1906 🔗

Depends on how they write the contract and how good their accountants and lawyers are.

45420 Moomin, 13, #1479 of 1906 🔗

Just made the mistake of going on the BBC propaganda website. Anyway, Boots and John Lewis have announced massive job cuts and store closures and apparently ‘p lanned routine treatments fell 82% from 295,881 in May 2019 to 54,550 in May this year, the latest figures from NHS England reveal.’ You don’t say! But, what the heck, lockdown works!!! NOT! WAKE UP!

45429 Awkward Git, 1, #1480 of 1906 🔗
45433 Julian, 1, #1481 of 1906 🔗
45434 Margaret, 19, #1482 of 1906 🔗

Just back from a visit to the hairdresser’s for some “damage limitation”. The last time I went was on March 19th and my OH has been cutting my hair since then!

Pleased to report that it felt virtually normal there-a bit of perspex at the till, the obligatory visors for the staff and hand sanitisers everywhere, but they had the hand sanitisers there the last time I visited anyway. They even had music playing, albeit at a low volume.

No masks worn by the three customers and we all chatted and compared notes with each other. Turns out that none of us there were convinced that the lockdown was a good thing at all. No-one knew anyone who had been ill, their partners had worked throughout the lockdown etc. but they did know of cancer sufferers who are now likely to die soon as their cancer has spread due to lack of treatment.

I threw in a load of statistics about Covid, talked about the very dodgy tests, the fudged numbers, the collateral damage etc and all were nodding their heads in agreement.

All in all, a successful sortie!

45435 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 8, #1483 of 1906 🔗

MASKWATCH

For those yet to take the public transport leap, my trip up to Lunnon yesterday was instructive.

Bus to station: Never seen a cleaner bus around these parts. About 20% occupied with about 70% masking. Went slower to maintain schedule due to lack of trade. No reaction from anybody to me being unmasked.

Train to Lunnon: Could have eaten my dinner off the floor too. Like Singapore. Ticket machine been fucked about with a screen saying “YOU MUST WEAR A MASK ON OUR SERVICES” coming up repeatedly. Screwed up an already weird machine to get a ticket. Asked a station guy wearing a mask round his chin like a sanitary towel about ticket usage. He said you can use all tickets on all services at the moment, so got one of those super off peak things for £12.50. – normally £20. Result. More travellers than staff were wearing masks. Had carriage to myself apart from one late middle-age bemasked couple who were loudly laughing at everything and being loudly jolly in that way the British have in adversity. I coughed a bit and they moved Very empty, but mid morning. Even E Croydon & Clapham weren’t busy. I noticed most station staff weren’t wearing masks at all, or only dangling ones. All the black ones seemed to be sporting nothing around their faces. Say what you like about them, but the black dudes don’t lack self confidence. No ticket inspectors on the train. Bonus
London Bridge station is bigger than Victoria now. Full of coppers stopping BAME. They were stopping them outside near the Monument too, so something was up. Lots of shouty women offering gel, masks advice, and directions, obviously not normal staff. Ignored them.

Around Lunnon a lot more masking than down on the S Coast. The City still dead. Like a Sunday, but it made sitting outside for coffee an easy pleasure.

Back just before the rush hour, (16.35 train) but only 25% occupied. At no stage during the day did anybody, anywhere, suggest I should be masked. Except the testing place I went to for 15 mins. And they were army guys. The sort in who’s hands you would happily put your life. They should be running the NHS.

I failed the antibody test, but they said if I had it back in Jan, when I’m sure I had it, the antibodies would have been filed in the antibody library ready for the next attack, rather than been in the bloodstream in sufficient quantity to register.

All in all a day I’d be happy to repeat, minus the pricks (finger variety).