2020-07-11

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/11/latest-news-71/
Published2020-07-11T18:18:00
Last updated2020-07-11T20:50:46
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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47360 Simon Dutton, replying to Simon Dutton, 18, #1 of 1199 🔗

Toby, you say that Johnson had Covid-19 – do you not find it quite extraordinary that a man released from intensive care was pictured a week or two later doing press-ups?

I do not believe he had it at all.

47375 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #2 of 1199 🔗

How time flies, BJ went into IC on 7th April, the press-ups interview was published on 28th June. More than ‘a week or two’.

47440 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #3 of 1199 🔗

Thanks — you’re right.

47563 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Simon Dutton, 6, #4 of 1199 🔗

Maybe so, but I still don’t believe he had it.

48128 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mario, replying to Rowan, #5 of 1199 🔗

What he had was “mild ICU”. He spent time there just being watched and sniffing extra oxygen, and not intubated. If that’s all you get you are fine once you kick the virus.

47389 ▶▶ annie, replying to Simon Dutton, 50, #6 of 1199 🔗

I think he just had surgery to remove his brain. Minor operation, very small organ.

47425 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to annie, 7, #7 of 1199 🔗

The larger organ, unfortunately, is what he is lead around by.

47457 ▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 6, #8 of 1199 🔗

Do you mean Cummings…?

47565 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Little Red Hen, 1, #9 of 1199 🔗

Surely both of them have the same drain brain.

48534 ▶▶▶▶ nfw, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #10 of 1199 🔗

It is made from heavy metal? Oh, led?

47436 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to annie, 2, #11 of 1199 🔗

Makes sense! 🙂

47437 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to annie, 5, #12 of 1199 🔗

I didn’t know he had one.

47442 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to annie, 2, #13 of 1199 🔗

Replaced with a lizard brain, no doubt!

48445 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to annie, #14 of 1199 🔗

I’m starting to think he’s been replaced by a woke clone.

47435 ▶▶ John P, replying to Simon Dutton, 6, #15 of 1199 🔗

I’ve often wondered if there was a psychosomatic element to Johnson’s illness.

47461 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John P, 1, #16 of 1199 🔗

I won’t be surprised if there is. Not to mention having a new OH and baby would I suspect cloud his brain and judgement.

47537 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Simon Dutton, 6, #17 of 1199 🔗

He was in ICU but never on a ventilator. It’s the use of a ventilator that is so debilitating for many months afterwards. It can take 12 months to recover just from the use of a ventilator – let alone whatever else you were suffering from making a ventilator necessary

47560 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Simon Dutton, 12, #18 of 1199 🔗

I think he had a mental breakdown, and needed rest and recuperation out of the public eye for a couple of weeks.

47567 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #19 of 1199 🔗

And Bill Gates wanted him out of the way.

47582 ▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #20 of 1199 🔗

His MK Ultra programming needed re booting so he would no longer have any morals or conscience to get in the as he and Prick Hancock destroy Britain.
Providing he had any to start with.

48112 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Christopher, 1, #21 of 1199 🔗

I think his election campaign proved him completely devoid of both morals and conscience.

47608 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #22 of 1199 🔗

Interesting thought

47771 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #23 of 1199 🔗

Hadn’t thought of that one. It would explain a lot, including that new ‘I think I may be on dodgy ground here’ look when he’s been talking about certain things. Whatever happened, his brane has certainly not been functioning in the same way it was last autumn/winter.

47806 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Hoppity, 3, #24 of 1199 🔗

There was something weird he said afterwards: “They gave me litres and litres of oxygen”. As if the main descriptive term for oxygen is its “litresness”. To me, it seemed like a line fed to him by a medic rather than something a real person would actually say. Like being shot at and saying “There were grammes and grammes of lead heading for me”.

47812 ▶▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #25 of 1199 🔗

Yes, I can’t think of specific examples, but I’ve noticed that he’s been ‘a lot less than fluent’ in what he’s had to say, and in the way he’s said it, on a number of occasions in recent weeks. Maybe it’s just sleepless nights with ‘t baby? (Though I’d be surprised if they haven’t a maternity nurse in to do all the night shifts, at least.) Whatever the case, something about him has changed.

47364 HawkAnalyst, 3, #26 of 1199 🔗

UK government to invest £170,000 in elite sex-parties firm, with taxpayer holding equity stake – media report

 https://www.rt.com/uk/494404-sex-parties-government-funds/

47367 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 30, #27 of 1199 🔗

Phew. Shopping done today, more than usual, should keep us going for several weeks while I sort out online alternatives if our usual haunts submit to the mask culture. Just as a reminder of the arrogance displayed by some shops, a barber in Clevedon is now open, with a sign outside his shop. “by appointment only. No mask, no service”. Very abrupt and in yer face. I’d tell him to shove it. There is really no need for such wording on people’s boards. Hope he goes bust. But he won’t. Mind you, there was no one in there on both the occasions I passed by, and it is a Saturday….in the past he’s been queued out the door.

47396 ▶▶ janis pennance, replying to thedarkhorse, 16, #28 of 1199 🔗

Same here , they can all get stuffed. I will not wear a mask . I will keep my money until this madness is over …and I don’t mean any virus

48386 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to janis pennance, #29 of 1199 🔗

That’s exactly what I am going to do and they can all get stuffed!

47520 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to thedarkhorse, 9, #30 of 1199 🔗

The polar opposite of a friendly welcome, that sign!

47571 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #31 of 1199 🔗

If he’s no business, then hopefully he will go bust.

47368 HawkAnalyst, 5, #32 of 1199 🔗

‘You went off the rails into insanity’: BAFTA takes heat online for imposing diversity quotas for Games Awards contestants

 https://www.rt.com/uk/494370-bafta-games-diversity-online/

47369 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 52, #33 of 1199 🔗

Boris looks such a plonker wearing the ill fitting blue face nappy. I had a deja vu of a stag party where the chubby host ended up with the strippers blue silk thong stretched over his head .
He really has been a disappointment.

47384 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Peter Thompson, 32, #34 of 1199 🔗

OMG I can’t get that picture out of my head, Peter!
If this is an attempt by Boris to make us all feel safer when we shop or work (and most of us have been happy to shop and work since March, without wearing a face nappy) what sort of message is it trying to portray? You wouldn’t want to visit somewhere where a bullet proof vest was a requirement because that wouldn’t be a safe place, would it?

47584 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, 9, #36 of 1199 🔗

I thought it telling that of the other three people in the picture, two were completely maskless and the other had tucked his under his chin!

47667 ▶▶▶▶ nfw, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #37 of 1199 🔗

It also looks like one of those pointless and useless surgical masks. that masks is fine in a surgery scenario situation but as for stopping the virus? Nah. Just a load of totalitarian control freak BS. The demonstrably racist fascist dirty filthy cheating lying cheating Chinese must be falling over themselves laughing.

47391 ▶▶ annie, replying to Peter Thompson, 22, #38 of 1199 🔗

‘disappointment’?
Please accept the Annie Award for Understatement of the Year!

47400 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 16, #39 of 1199 🔗

Peter, you can have the Miriam Medal as 2nd prize for the same achievement!

Also, isn’t it time Toby Young could come up with something better than calling Johnson a ‘bedwetter’ when he is apparently about to introduce such a draconian, humiliating, antisocial and destructive measure as the epidemic is now over. Surely you could risk speculating just what the man’s game is?

We all know this is not about a virus and not about our safety. I’m not sure that it ever was.

As I said below the previous post, Guantanamo Bay prisoners were kept kneeling, apart, hooded and forced to wear the same blue face masks that you see everywhere now. Well, it made us think when we saw the photo.

47590 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 12, #40 of 1199 🔗

Of course. it is not about the virus. It’s all about the vaccine and keeping the fear factor going until they’ve got enough of Gates’s toxic special brew to genocide us all at one sitting. The UK government has been up to its stinking armpits in this whole wretched corona farce since day one. We are in very desperate trouble.

47595 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #41 of 1199 🔗
47596 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #42 of 1199 🔗

They’ll be telling us to wear orange next!

47844 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #43 of 1199 🔗

We’ve got a similar picture in our front window, highlighting the mask and with the slogan ‘As worn in Guantanamo since 2002’

47623 ▶▶▶▶ Hester, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 11, #44 of 1199 🔗

I posted earlier but if you refuse to wear the mask does that mean that Boris intends for people to starve or wear a mask, is he actually saying and is it the case for the Scots that if you refuse to cover your face in a shop, you cannot by food and that is supported by the British Government?

47408 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #45 of 1199 🔗

The terrifying thing is, some earnest highly paid focus group probably met late into the night to discuss the best design for the PM’s face mask for this shot, to instill optimum voter confidence. “PPE mask?” “No, too contentious.” “How about a rainbow?” “No, no, let’s make it … NHS Blue!!!”

47512 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 1, #46 of 1199 🔗

Conservative blue??? Let’s face it, he would never wear a red one!

47518 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 5, #47 of 1199 🔗

Krankies had to be fashioned out of the corner of an old shopping trolley bag. I believe the mask is a statement about the simplicity of the wearers brain.

47591 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, 1, #48 of 1199 🔗

He ought to have a very red face.

47444 ▶▶ John P, replying to Peter Thompson, 10, #49 of 1199 🔗

To be fair he looks a plonker even without one.

47445 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #50 of 1199 🔗

Gawd. I can’t unsee that!

Zoinks!!!

47510 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #51 of 1199 🔗

His mask looks like a jockstrap!

47592 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Carrie, 3, #52 of 1199 🔗

That’s because his face looks like a ,,,,,,,,,,,,

47639 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 10, #53 of 1199 🔗

Well, it is covering a prick.

47566 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #54 of 1199 🔗

Mandatory face masks will be introduced in England next week, I have no doubt. Boris can’t lose with this one. If he makes them mandatory then when there isn’t a second wave he (and all the face mask fans as well ) can say it was entirely because people had to wear masks everywhere. If there is a second wave then he can spin it that a second wave was always predicted and how much worse it would be without mask use. How can anyone prove different – just like with Ferguson’s crappy model back in March.

Mask wearing seems to be what a majority of the public want – why would he go against that when he’s already let the media and the public bounce him into a lockdown? I think he knows it will have no actual impact on virus spread but if it’s what the public want and (he thinks) will persuade people back into the shops and pubs then it’s an easy decision for him.

The question is – will the Welsh Government continue to resist the pressure against face masks? If England shift position I can’t see them holding out for long but they’ve said they would require further scientific evidence before changing their stance. However as so many researchers seem determined to prove face masks are a game changer I’m sure a piece of research will appear soon 🙁

47601 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to The Spingler, 6, #55 of 1199 🔗

Wow, are you telling me that our anti-mask hopes rest with the Welsh government?!

47616 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #56 of 1199 🔗

They’ve been surprisingly militant in their assessment of the efficacy of face masks. Given their ultra cautious approach in every other aspect of the lockdown it’s beyond unexpected.

47615 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to The Spingler, 7, #57 of 1199 🔗

Not disagreeing – I called it a few days ago -masks next week. But he can lose. If people outright reject en mass. Its not the woke Scottish with the scot nat fan base he’s dealing with. Police cannot enforce. Social shaming unlikely in England. I think there’s room for a massive misjudgement at this stage of their game.

47620 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Basics, 3, #58 of 1199 🔗

Do you think people will reject it outright though? I have no faith in the majority of the British public. Certainly the overwhelming view point I see from my Facebook friends is that everyone should wear face masks at all times. Of course social media is probably not the best place for assessing real world attitude but even so I think once it’s mandatory people will comply.

47647 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to The Spingler, 2, #59 of 1199 🔗

Yes. Huge pockets of folk. Much more so than here. Genuinely. Liverpool, Leeds, Manchester, Sunderland, Walsall, Wolves, Stoke… these are places with sensible no nonsense folk in them. Hartlepool, Whitby! I sound like a lemon jelly tune but! I grant you Ipswich and Bath might go along.
The sell isn’t comolete in my estimation.

But as I said, I did call it as a done deal by next week.

47894 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Basics, 1, #60 of 1199 🔗

I am originally from Manchester…its no longer as you say…Chorlton,Withington,Didsbury etc are full of woke PC loons.

47726 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, 3, #61 of 1199 🔗

If 61% are in favour of deleting their isn noses and mouths, that leaves 39% who are not.That’s a lot of unhappy humans. They need nudging.

47891 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to The Spingler, 2, #62 of 1199 🔗

Think its time to ditch your facebook friends….with friends like thsese…….

48369 ▶▶▶▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to The Spingler, #63 of 1199 🔗

Very few people have been wearing masks here (present at bus stops under the chin but virtually none before 15 Jun ).
Today there were even less than usual in supermarkets.
It’s almost a tacit response to ‘no mask’; ‘no antisocial distancing’

47700 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, 3, #64 of 1199 🔗

How about sending truckloads of masks to the BBC, #10 Downing Street and the House of Parliament for starters? Pick them at the Underground and deposit them in boxes at a makeshift pickup station where you exit?

47644 ▶▶▶ LyndsayHopkins, replying to The Spingler, 7, #65 of 1199 🔗

Most people in Yarm where I live are not wearing masks. This suggests to me that in Yarm at least people don’t want to wear them as if they did they would be wearing them. I am so angry and disillusioned with Boris Johnson.

47574 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #66 of 1199 🔗

A disappointment to some, but for others he has lived down to expectations.

47583 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #67 of 1199 🔗

I thought he looked as if he’s got a pair of knickers on his face!

47621 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #68 of 1199 🔗

I look at Boris and all that comes to mind is that somewhere there is a village missing its idiot.

47370 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #69 of 1199 🔗

Serbian police arrest 71 protesters, including Brit, as mayhem over Covid-19 restrictions continues

 https://www.rt.com/news/494478-serbia-belgrade-protest-arrests/

47525 ▶▶ Basics, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #70 of 1199 🔗

Ruptly youtube continue to stream live the protests. Peaceful presently.

47372 HawkAnalyst, 3, #71 of 1199 🔗
47373 HawkAnalyst, 5, #72 of 1199 🔗
47376 GetaGrip, replying to GetaGrip, 8, #73 of 1199 🔗

In that Mail-on-line article they poll 61% want masks, as in Scotland.

This is ‘The Science’ the Government follows, so, it’ll be an announcement on Monday for England then.

47379 ▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to GetaGrip, 4, #74 of 1199 🔗

but also in The Daily Mail:

Coronavirus: Sweden’s death rate falling faster than the UK’s

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8505699/amp/Swedens-coronavirus-death-rate-falling-faster-UKs.html

47410 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to GetaGrip, 23, #75 of 1199 🔗

I don’t believe these polls. If this is true, why is it that where I live in Essex no more than 5% are wearing masks to shop. If they were worried enough to report their preference for masks, they’d be wearing them now, wouldn’t they?

47421 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bugle, 32, #76 of 1199 🔗

I see YouGov have just put out another poll stating that “only” 38% of British people wear masks, compared with much higher percentages elsewhere in Europe:

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1281638035462004739

This is absolute bollocks! I’ve been out and about quite a bit recently and I would estimate fewer than 5% wear masks. These polls as misleading at best, downright lies at worst.

47422 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tenchy, 8, #77 of 1199 🔗

Agree – 5% max in my area

47645 ▶▶▶▶▶ LyndsayHopkins, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #78 of 1199 🔗

Same in Yarm on Teesside

47439 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Tenchy, 8, #79 of 1199 🔗

virtually no one was wearing them in Scotland before she made us and now almost everyone is wearing them.

47541 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 5, #80 of 1199 🔗

Inside I agree. Outside not so much and also early days… let time pass and people think bugger it, this truly is pointless and no police doing anything (they can’t). There’s a lot of good in junk rules being brought in for people to see through them and grow past them. Patience! Hope!

Boris is in a cracking position. His masters want him to do it. He knows the population won’t follow suit. Bring in a law tgat people flout immediately isn’t the best way to look strong.

47599 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Biker, 7, #81 of 1199 🔗

Sturgeon feels untouchable, she needs kicking out.

47728 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rowan, 3, #82 of 1199 🔗

Kicking certainly, and I can think of a few more locations.

47898 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to annie, #83 of 1199 🔗

Keep Kicking Marxists…someone has a breitbart profile with that name lol

48064 ▶▶▶▶▶ Colin MacDonald, replying to Biker, 3, #84 of 1199 🔗

Yep, I’m wearing them in shops too now. Ineffetually perched on the end of my nose so my breath bypasses the mask and doesn’t fog up my glasses. So they’re quite tolerable to wear this way. I’ve had to wear a fair variety of masks in my chequered work history, from dust masks to full breathing apparatus, so I’m pretty much au fait with how to make a mask work, if there’s any significant risk I know full well how to wear the thing properly. In the meantime I’m basically pretending to wear one.

47508 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 4, #85 of 1199 🔗

‘in Europe’… where in Europe? Certainly not everywhere..No Scandinavian countries have mandated masks, nor are they likely to!

47430 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bugle, 7, #86 of 1199 🔗

I think 38% SAY they wear them to the pollsters. But when they go out…. they actually don’t.

47451 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Farinances, 8, #87 of 1199 🔗

I think the polls are skewed and the papers are happy to report them.

47600 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Farinances, 3, #88 of 1199 🔗

And of course pollsters always tell it like it is.

47604 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bugle, 2, #89 of 1199 🔗

Went to the park this afternoon. It was busy. No masks, except for one South Asian man whose wife and kid were maskless.

47412 ▶▶ Marcus, replying to GetaGrip, 4, #90 of 1199 🔗

If this is accurate why are – my very rough estimate, in my local area – only 10-20% of people wearing one when out shopping currently?

47431 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Marcus, 5, #91 of 1199 🔗

I’d say about….. maybe only 1 in 50 round where I live.

47606 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Marcus, 3, #92 of 1199 🔗

Much less than 5% in my locality. Did a big shop on Thursday, saw just one masked plonker in a mask in the car park. None in the supermarket, including staff.

47609 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rowan, 1, #93 of 1199 🔗

None at all in Aldi last night.

47432 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to GetaGrip, 4, #94 of 1199 🔗

Don’t trust these polls and surveys, must be fake.

47466 ▶▶ John P, replying to GetaGrip, 4, #95 of 1199 🔗

I don’t see all that many of them about where I live, but I suspect that many of the worst covid bedwetters are barricading themselves inside their homes.

So while the figure does seem really high, it may be that those out on the streets are less fearful anyway.

47513 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to GetaGrip, 14, #96 of 1199 🔗

This makes no sense. If 61% wanted compulsory muzzling there is nothing to stop them having warn masks for the last 3 months yet I would say no more than 5% of people wear them in south Derbyshire where I live.

48045 ▶▶ Colin MacDonald, replying to GetaGrip, 1, #97 of 1199 🔗

Whichever side you take in the lockdown debate you take, you would expect the virus to fall off more quickly in a country which didn’t lockdown, having experienced a bigger wave of cases in the first place. I’m definitely an opponent of lockdown however I’m disappointed that Sweden hasn’t experienced a greater decrease in covid mortality, it seems more likely that lockdown or lack of has made no difference to the curve.

47378 Rob Tyson, 6, #98 of 1199 🔗

people will begin to ask tough questions of the Government ” – yeah, right.

47380 mjr, replying to mjr, 6, #99 of 1199 🔗

Re Toby’s cancel culture discussion on sky
This is the correct link
The one he has takes you to the Ice Cold in Alex lager clip … (unless John Mills is Toby and Sylvia Sims is Owen Jones

47453 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to mjr, 2, #100 of 1199 🔗

It´s been cancelled

47460 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #102 of 1199 🔗

The law of unintended consequences

47612 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #103 of 1199 🔗

Paywall! Give us the juicy bits please …..

47670 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #104 of 1199 🔗

Rishi Sunak, the chancellor, has defended the £9 billion bonus scheme that will pay £1,000 to companies for each worker taken back from furlough.

Labour has criticised the policy, saying that it would subsidise firms that planned to bring workers back anyway and was not a big enough inducement to prevent redundancies.

The plan was also questioned by Mel Stride, the Conservative chairman of the Treasury select committee, after it emerged that officials had refused to sign off the plan because they were uncertain of its value for money.

48193 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #105 of 1199 🔗

Here Cheezilla:

Shares in some high street companies rallied as investors caught on to the prospect of a one-off boost from furlough bonuses in January.

JD Wetherspoon, which put 43,000 people on furlough, is potentially eligible for £43 million, if all employees returned within the timeframe. Also likely to benefit are Marks & Spencer, which furloughed 27,000 workers, and Next, which furloughed 44,000.

In a letter to the chancellor, Jim Harra, head of HM Revenue & Customs, said that while there was a “sound policy rationale” for the scheme he was “unable to reach a view that this represents value for money”. Under spending rules officials are required to request a written ministerial direction for any policy where they cannot demonstrate value for money from the taxpayer.

Robert Joyce, of the Institute of Fiscal Studies, said while it was not a “small” subsidy it might not be enough to make a difference. “In a normal time that is not at all a small subsidy, but it is a lot less than we had been providing through the furlough scheme and in these times it is doubtful how many jobs that might save if labour demand continues to be very weak.”

48433 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, #106 of 1199 🔗

Thanks H.A. 🙂

47383 SteveT, 1, #107 of 1199 🔗

Interesting video https://youtu.be/7NCD6lvxlKY from Tony Heller about the number of virus’s that emanate from the place called Wuhan. 1996, 2009 and the latest.

47385 Nel, replying to Nel, 20, #108 of 1199 🔗

Boris and his cabinet should face a ‘reckoning’ now

47394 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nel, 12, #109 of 1199 🔗

I’m sharpening my flaying knives and studying pictures of St Lawrence on the gridiron.

47403 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Nel, 19, #110 of 1199 🔗

Boris and his cabinet are desperate, flailing around blaming everybody but themselves: supposed sweat shops, care homes, Sage, PHE. Good grief, even Jeremy Hunt is accusing the ‘Science’ of groupthink. Overall, not a pretty sight, but it shows the heat is being felt.

48051 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bugle, 2, #111 of 1199 🔗

There is no heat because there is no opposition. And if you have no opposition you can do what you want with alacrity.

47427 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Nel, 26, #112 of 1199 🔗

A friend of mine has been telling me about the abrupt mental decline over the last few weeks of two elderly neighbours, who each live on their own.

‘Reckoning’? I hope that bastard Johnson swings for what he’s done.

47522 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to TJN, 15, #113 of 1199 🔗

Sadly the same is true of my 90yo father. Former managing director of a multi national company his decline, particularly verbal reasoning, in the last 3 months has been shocking. Confined to his flat, unable to master basic IT, his children and grandchildren forbidden to visit until last weekend, no church, no friends, no trips to town on his scooter. He seems to have filled his time writing lists in respect of his funeral arrangements. He’s just given up.

47527 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #114 of 1199 🔗

That is very very sad and hard to hear. I feels so angry as I am in a similar situation with my father living in a care home

47528 ▶▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to wendy, 7, #115 of 1199 🔗

Thanks. My heart breaks for them both. Sending you a virtual hug. If we were in the same room it would be a real one!

47533 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendy, 5, #116 of 1199 🔗

Very sorry as well. My father-in-law lives on his own and while he’s fairly competent with IT and is in better shape this year than he has been two years ago, he’s fed up and wants his life back.

47548 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #117 of 1199 🔗

My dad is at the point where he’d rather have a few weeks of normal than a year or two of continued isolation. Reminds me of a quote from Steel Magnolias “I’d rather have five minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special”.

47555 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 6, #118 of 1199 🔗

Yeah, my father-in-law said as much – he misses going to concerts and eating out. He went to central Edinburgh for the first time in three months and he noticed how depressing everything was.

47613 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #119 of 1199 🔗

And that’s without bumping into wee Jimmie.

47529 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 11, #120 of 1199 🔗

That’s very sad to hear and it makes me angry that lockdownistas still think the right thing was done.

NO! NO! NO!

47907 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bart Simpson, #121 of 1199 🔗

If only a prime minister still said that in the house of commons lol

47650 ▶▶▶▶ LyndsayHopkins, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 9, #122 of 1199 🔗

So sorry for you. They embarked on this hideous lockdown it would seem without any thoughts of the consequences on the economy, education, health including mental health and what it would do to elderly people. It’s inforgivable.

47732 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 6, #123 of 1199 🔗

That is appalling. And the worst thing, for the rest of us, is the thought of how many people could tell, and are telling, the same story.
You and the others must come forward as witnesses when retribution comes. It reminds me of how the Nazis murdered the disabled by gassing them. Our current Nazis’ method is slower, but just as sure.

47741 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 2, #124 of 1199 🔗

“Death by a thousand cuts”

48056 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, 4, #125 of 1199 🔗

There will be no retribution unless there is vocal and plentiful opposition. Currently I don’t see it. It’s a friendly p[lace being here but it isn’t proportionate. Sturgeon has videos of kids thanking her for saving their lives. Most people are brainwashed and are lost to any cause. Which is the point I think.

48077 ▶▶▶▶ Colin MacDonald, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 7, #126 of 1199 🔗

I think there’s always a difficult trade off to be made with the health of elderly parents and this applies in non covid times too. Basically, are we just shielding them from risk just to give them a few more joyless months of life. In the case of my very frail Dad, he loved seeing my kids, but often enough he would miss seeing them for fear of being laid low by the bugs they were carrying. Now I think he just should have seen them anyway, coldly put, the benefits outweighed the risks. Or put another way, if you’re so decrepit that you’re likely to die anyway, why not enjoy the time you’ve got?

47552 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to TJN, 9, #127 of 1199 🔗

It feels like this point is a duration tipping point. A few middle aged friends are finding things more difficult as of about a week ago.

47611 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to TJN, 1, #128 of 1199 🔗

Somebody needs to make it very personal.

47386 Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 28, #129 of 1199 🔗

Disturbing echoes of life on the Costa Blanca here on the north coast of Kent. A friend had supper at a formerly excellent local gastro pub recently. Food served on paper plates, drink in plastic beakers, coffee in cardboard cups and names and phone numbers demanded. So an attempt to escape the insanity for a few hours proved anything but. Yet ‘spoons and the local (non-chain) Italian restaurant have provided food, drink and a welcome at least as good as in the past. Let’s hope that the panicking gastro pub comes to its senses before it’s too late.

47617 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #130 of 1199 🔗

Well clearly, keeping well away from the gastro is the order of the day.

47641 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #131 of 1199 🔗

Giving personal details is voluntary. Its tyere on uk gov website covid advice to hospitality

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/maintaining-records-of-staff-customers-and-visitors-to-support-nhs-test-and-trace#how-records-should-be-maintained

Apologies if you know already, good to keep this circulating.

47387 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 15, #132 of 1199 🔗

Reposting, as it was posted just before change over:

Hello All,

Firstly, thank you so much for all the kind words last night. It’s been very encouraging having you here. (And another thank you to Toby for creating this space for us).
Meeting in person has been proposed, and I am volunteering myself to do some organising… we’re on the road at the moment and could do several locations, but also, because my identity online is very easy to check out, and I think – rightfully so – people may have hesitation about sharing identifiable info. If you google TyLean…. you will find me. (I may have dropped in the search engines having lost interest in the social media game).

Please email tyl ean at tylean dot com. if you want to meet in real time – let me know the geographical area you’re happy to travel and rough dates/times you can meet. Also you can email if you are happy to host and/or have suggestions for a good venue.

So far, somewhere in England near the Welsh Gulag border is looking a promising location, but can revise as I get a better idea of who’s in.

Thank you!

47393 ▶▶ annie, replying to TyLean, 9, #133 of 1199 🔗

That’s brilliant, TyLean, you’re a star.
As soon as Gulag Wales acknowledges the existence of Other People, I’m on.

47409 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TyLean, 9, #134 of 1199 🔗

I’d be happy to do a meet up as well. Lockdown Sceptics unite!

47652 ▶▶▶ LyndsayHopkins, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #135 of 1199 🔗

I’d be happy to meet up with fellow lockdown sceptic. I live in Yarm on Teesside.

47743 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to LyndsayHopkins, #136 of 1199 🔗

I’m in London.

47744 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, #137 of 1199 🔗

Me too. Near Cambridge …

47426 ▶▶ mjr, replying to TyLean, 1, #138 of 1199 🔗

nope – top of the google search page … interesting web site .. interesting artwork!

47654 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to mjr, #139 of 1199 🔗

Thank you!

47449 ▶▶ John P, replying to TyLean, 5, #140 of 1199 🔗

Sounds like an interesting idea 🙂 I may have to organise my escape from the East Midlands open prison though …

47511 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to John P, 4, #141 of 1199 🔗

Loughborough here.. ready & waiting

47526 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to John P, 3, #142 of 1199 🔗

Swadlincote here. Happy to support and help!

47561 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 3, #143 of 1199 🔗

Tunnel john.. that would be the inspiration the community needs a tunnel from Liecester to the Welsh Marches, unless you can pull a Colditz and build a glider in your attic. Come to think, arriving in a pommel horse might be the way..

47753 ▶▶▶▶ james, replying to Basics, 1, #144 of 1199 🔗

We do have a tunnel in Leicester out from lock down zone. Used to train coal here from coalville way. Any way I prefer the option I took Friday night. Drive out of here for a night at a mates in West bridgford. Any police stopping me would have been told where to go…

48162 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to james, #145 of 1199 🔗

Humanity always finds a way!

47656 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to TyLean, 5, #146 of 1199 🔗

Thanks for the responses everyone! I have had some emails as well from people keen to meet but who don’t comment. I actually “watched” without commenting for many weeks, so that’s good news…. there are a more people with us than we realise!

I’ll give it to tomorrow morning before I work out logistics to see if anyone else pops up interested. Plus…. it’s been an insane 24 hours, and my brain is fried, lol.

Really looking forward to meeting you all!

47983 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to TyLean, #147 of 1199 🔗

Devon

47675 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to TyLean, 3, #148 of 1199 🔗

I’d be happy to do a meet as well. I live on the Pest side of Windsor. Please forgive me if I wear a mask while moving around London – it’s for protection from facial recognition software.

47773 ▶▶ GLT, replying to TyLean, #149 of 1199 🔗

Great idea! Buckinghamshire/northants borders.

47780 ▶▶ Sue, replying to TyLean, #150 of 1199 🔗

Sounds a grest idea…i’m down bristol way but happy to travel…

47395 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 23, #151 of 1199 🔗

I have a very nifty badge on a lanyard stating I’m except from wearing a mask. Who’d have thought it would be this easy? The lanyard is wide and orange and has “MASK EXCEPT” printed on it in a repeated pattern. The badge is solid plastic and slots into one of those holders people in offices put their passes in.

Wore it yesterday in a supermarket. I was the only person, bar a sprightly looking elderly woman, who wasn’t wearing a mask. The shop was very busy. I did get a few eyeballs from afar, but on the most part, everyone ignored me like they were ignoring everyone else. This “don’t look people in the face” thing is new, right?

The girl on the checkout looked absolutely broken and kept adjusting her mask while handling people’s purchases…

I also had to pop into a local small supermarket today and dropped the lanyard over my head before going inside. The shop had a sign on the door referring to the Scottish Government’s “guidelines” – not laws – on face coverings being required.`

Again, no one paid me any heed, including the two members of staff standing near the entrance, both wearing masks. This time I was served by an assistance who wasn’t wearing a face covering. I was tempted to ask her why…

From these two excursions it seems in Scotland the face covering “law” isn’t being enforced to any degree and it relying, as Sturgeon wants, on public cooperation.

47414 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Mark H, 7, #152 of 1199 🔗

Hi Mark. Are you able to say where you got your badge and lanyard? If possible I’d like to get one. Many thanks.

47469 ▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to Gillian, 5, #153 of 1199 🔗

You can find them on eBay.

47542 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Mark H, 3, #154 of 1199 🔗

Just ordered 2. Best to be prepared! I was just going to carry one of my husbands spare inhalers and pretend to be asthmatic but this is even better.

47716 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #155 of 1199 🔗

I have mind in car, ready to go whenever I need it.

My oldest told me that he wandered into a shop on Friday evening to pick up beers, didn’t wear a mask, no one said a thing.

47467 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark H, 5, #156 of 1199 🔗

Just like Face from the A-Team (what an apt name). Act like you’re everything you do is legitimate and people won’t question you.

47399 Marcus, 19, #157 of 1199 🔗

Send Tony some love in the comments.

Right there with you Tony – since last night I’ve been contemplating some kind of drastic hunger strike rather than be forced to shop for basic goods with a muzzle/nappy on. Such is the inhumanity of it all.

47401 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 113, #158 of 1199 🔗

So Boris wants to muzzle every customer in England, no doubt to reassure the bedwetting contingent that voilà – this magic piece of material over one’s mouth and nose stops the virus dead in its tracks, and now we can all safely spend some of that lovely money in pubs, hairdressers and eateries in order to boost the ailing economy.

An economy whose throat this reckless government is determined to keep its boot firmly planted on. Anyway, here’s a solution to kick-start the economy, Boris. It costs you nothing. It won’t take away any more of our precious freedoms. It doesn’t come in the form of a syringe, which may disappoint the Bill Gates’ of this world. Call a press conference. Gather the nation around their TVs. Invite all of the corrupt mainstream media to attend. And you come clean.

Come clean about every last bit of it. The dodgy models, the decision to go into lockdown, the utter failure to lift restrictions when it was abundantly clear the virus was receding, the colossal failure to protect nursing homes, the heinous waste of taxpayer’s money that is test and trace, the cruel deprivation of an education for millions of our children, I could go on.

Most of all, and the whole point of this intervention, you need to tell the millions of people you’ve petrified with relentless fear-porn and Covid-propaganda that actually, the virus is nowhere near as lethal as first thought. Healthy under 65s have an infinitesimally small risk of death due to this disease, and its presence outside hospitals is virtually non-existent save for a few asymptomatic cases.

Of course none of this will happen, because you know that would require you to immediately fall on your sword, and give up the one job you’ve dreamed of holding since your school days. Ironically however, by not doing this and doubling down further on this ridiculous charade, further plunging the nation into crippling debt and killing tens of thousands due to delayed cancer treatments and the like, you have already cemented yourself as the worst Prime Minister in living memory.

You have set a timer, counting down the days til the truth will be exposed and soon, every man, woman and child will know of the awful deeds you and your cabinet have enacted during this pandemic. That, Boris, will be the end of you and the rest of your days can be lived under a cloud of eternal shame.

47413 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Scotty87, 41, #159 of 1199 🔗

Hear, hear, excellent! This is what I wrote to my MP on 23 May.

‘If HMG could admit that it has made a terrible error people could in time forgive it and accept that its catastrophic decisions were made with good intentions although based on what turned out to be bad advice.

If HMG cannot admit this it will be unforgivable.’

47415 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Scotty87, 9, #160 of 1199 🔗

Not in living memory. That’s only about sixty years. How about worst Prime Minister since before Walpole?

47534 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella, 4, #161 of 1199 🔗

Like, worst ever!

47540 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 10, #162 of 1199 🔗

To think we thought Theresa May was bad..

47417 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Scotty87, 6, #163 of 1199 🔗

Excellent post.

47418 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Scotty87, 18, #164 of 1199 🔗

Hear, hear. He can still salvage his reputation with a mea culpa but I seriously doubt that he will admit that he’s made a mistake. I can imagine him holding on to dear life until he’s stabbed at the back by his fellow MPs who finally have had enough.

Or if our citizenry reenact the 1848 revolution and forcibly remove him from No 10.

47507 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #165 of 1199 🔗

If the 1922 Committee were really to think long term, they would start to move against Boris. At present he is just about holding the reins. In a few weeks time when the scale of economic devastation becomes more apparent, the mood of the nation could get very ugly indeed. What then?

Perhaps, aware that the Conservative Party will be unelectable for twenty years, they prefer to hang on and take their chance. But they could consider their duty to the country and start a process from which some of them might emerge with honour.

47516 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bugle, 3, #166 of 1199 🔗

One hopes and I can imagine that the mood among the 1922 committee is turning ugly. However I suspect they are biding their time, after all he who wields the knife will never inherit the crown.

Mr Bart and I have been talking about the possibility of rioting and where it can start. I believe that it can start anywhere but if it was in London, the shops along Oxford and Regent Streets should start playing nice with customers because they can be the targets for possible revenge when the mood turns really ugly.

47532 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bugle, 3, #167 of 1199 🔗

There will be some discussion going on, you may be sure…

47545 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to annie, 1, #168 of 1199 🔗

When Boris was in hospital, they were planning to replace him with Jeremy Hunt or Sajid Javid, according to Mason Mills..

47544 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Bugle, 18, #169 of 1199 🔗

I don’t think that there is an honorable politician alive in the country at present, no matter which colour or hue. And they know that. No matter which way we vote, we’ll get sh*te and they know that. There’s not a piece of bog roll between them. They should be ashamed, but they never ever will. We, the electorate, are just a mild irritation to there corrupt, free loading lifestyles. We have no chance

48558 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to T. Prince, 1, #170 of 1199 🔗

Simon Dolan said he’d pay for anyone willing to stand up as an Independent at local elections. Anyone interested?

47619 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bugle, 3, #171 of 1199 🔗

Duty, honour, this lot????????

48516 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, #172 of 1199 🔗

Over a million people filled the streets in 2002 to protest invading Iraq. It has been eerily quiet ever since. How about some good old bloody mindedness folks? Put on masks, flood the streets of London and then toss those masks in the air in unison in front of #10 and the House of Parliament. I’m rooting for all of you.

47539 ▶▶ DJC, replying to Scotty87, 6, #173 of 1199 🔗

Well done. The truth clearly expressed. It does help to know that there are honest clear thinkers out there.

47637 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DJC, 2, #174 of 1199 🔗

It’s good to read thoughts like yours Scotty87.

47671 ▶▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Basics, 8, #175 of 1199 🔗

Thank you, Basics. I find it difficult to contribute to this forum as much as I’d like due to having 3 kids under 5 including a nearly week-old daughter!

I mostly just have my rant and leave it at that, but I do very much enjoy browsing the glut of fantastic content always guaranteed in the comments section here.

47734 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Scotty87, 5, #176 of 1199 🔗

Keep writing for your children’s sake! When they grow up they’ll be able to boast that their mum (hope I’m not misconstruing situation!) was one of the voices of the Great Liberation.

47859 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to annie, 7, #177 of 1199 🔗

Haha I’m a proud dad Annie but thank you for your kind words. If I can post just a mere fraction of the quality you have added to this forum over the last few months, I will certainly call that a success!

48327 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ tim5165, replying to Scotty87, #178 of 1199 🔗

Congratulations to your wife and yourself on the birth of your latest baby!

48357 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to tim5165, #179 of 1199 🔗

Thank you kindly, Tim. Scary time to be bringing kids into the world, but it gives you a burning desire to fight this madness which is further crippling our society with each passing day.

47677 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Scotty87, 1, #180 of 1199 🔗

Boris could be taking a massive bung from Scamazon.

47733 ▶▶ annie, replying to Scotty87, 2, #181 of 1199 🔗

That should be printed on a million flyers and distributed nationwide!

47754 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Scotty87, 8, #182 of 1199 🔗

Wonderful post. For me, the smallest salve of comfort in these ruinous times will be if Johnson finally gets his reckoning and suffers the legacy of being the worst PM in history, after wanting the job for so long and even having the opportunity to rise above the madness and cement his status as a Churchillian leader (original herd immunity strategy). He has blown that opportunity.

48362 ▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Poppy, 3, #183 of 1199 🔗

Thank you, Poppy. You are exactly right – and to think how much he would be revered by huge sections of society if he had chosen the herd immunity option!

Deaths due to lockdown would be non-existent, domestic abuse and child abuse wouldn’t have horrifically spiked, the mental health of the nation would have been largely preserved, the economy would be in a far better state than we currently find it…the list goes on.

Johnson is a coward who doesn’t believe in very much. This crisis of his own making has ruthlessly exposed his incompatibility with high office.

48517 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Scotty87, #184 of 1199 🔗

A coward like the cowardly lion in the Wizard of Oz.

47785 ▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to Scotty87, 3, #185 of 1199 🔗

Spot on, Scotty! I won’t forgive or forget his loathsome, damaging, cowardly actions.

47787 ▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to Scotty87, 8, #186 of 1199 🔗

Excellent analysis. I agree Bottler Johnson is the worst PM in living memory; I didn’t think Bliar could be surpassed in that regard, save, perhaps, by Komrade Corbynov. Well, we dodged a bullet only to be kiboshed by a mortar. At this point I feel a political orphan so I send a heartfelt plea to Nigel Farage to get the Reform Party up and running ASAP. There must be plenty of his former BP colleagues (rational actors every one) who could play a useful part.

Only one point where I disagree:

“every man, woman and child will know of the awful deeds you and your cabinet have enacted during this pandemic”

I fear that won’t happen. We’re in a situation like that described by James Thurber in his account of ‘The Day The Dam Broke’ – we have a populace that largely believed the lie, and went along with the mass hysteria. They will not easily admit their error, their stupidity, their culpability. And so the lie of Covid-19 will persist for many years because it affords greater psychological comfort than admitting they were fools.

47853 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Scotty87, 3, #187 of 1199 🔗

An excellent post! If only Boris had the courage to do it, I think there would be an awful lot of people who might be prepared to forgive (if they wouldn’t forget) the last three months. We can but live in hope…

48229 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Scotty87, 2, #188 of 1199 🔗

Theresa May signing us up to net zero made her the worst PM ever.

Then in December, Boris could have thrown that out. He didn’t so that instantly made him as bad as May.

But now he has gone a step further with this lockdown.

So if this was a game of “Top Trumps British Prime Ministers” Boris Johnson would definitely be the card that would make your heart sink when you drew it.

47411 Liam, replying to Liam, 10, #189 of 1199 🔗

If Tony is reading, Courage mon ami!

47420 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Liam, 4, #190 of 1199 🔗

Chin up, Tony. It is always darkest before the dawn.

47438 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Liam, 11, #191 of 1199 🔗

Hey Tony, don’t worry – the fact that you have been worried just means you are a human being with some self respect.

Just say you’re exempt. Lying is very easy when the people you are talking to don’t deserve the truth. Say you are vulnerable to hypercapnia (which we all are of course). Or say you’re not a deviant into public bondage.

47703 ▶▶▶ Rosemarie, replying to TJN, 1, #192 of 1199 🔗

The law gives exemption if wearing a mask causes severe distress. No need to explain, though, just plead exemption.

47470 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Liam, 7, #193 of 1199 🔗

Yes Tony, take heart from all the lovely people here. We all have so much sadness but together we will help each other. Keep your chin up Tony we need you

47480 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to wendy, 4, #194 of 1199 🔗

Carry this around on your device (if you have one) before it gets taken down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQo79HRUksk&feature=youtu.be

48560 ▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Bella, #195 of 1199 🔗

This video was very good.

Perhaps we should invest in these Oxygen monitors and go out in force and offer to monitor muzzled people’s oxygen levels – they may start to get it then.

Could also buy the finger ones.

There was a great video of an American women who had gone for a post covid check up and been forced to wear a mask who’s oxygen reading was about 90/ The Doctor said to take off the mask and sit for 5 minutes before testing again. It went up to 99. Boy was she mad!

47551 ▶▶▶ Tony, replying to wendy, 7, #196 of 1199 🔗

Thanks Everyone,
But I will wait to see what BS our beloved leader brings in on Monday – if it’s just shops then I just won’t go in any!!
But if it’s everywhere – then I know there is no way out of this – the legislation is in place for a minimum of 2 years (and he won’t let that go) and the population is now brainwashed into this – so masks will be here to stay
Ironic that he said only days ago that kids won’t have to wear them when they go back to school.
This dystopian new normal is not worth living in, and there just aren’t enough of us to over turn things.

47708 ▶▶▶▶ Rosemarie, replying to Tony, 2, #197 of 1199 🔗

Just don’t wear one, the law caters for your severe distress. The Nazis back down when challenged. Totally unenforceable if mandatory outdoors, so don’t worry about that. Just avoid Spain, and you’ll be OK.

47736 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tony, 7, #198 of 1199 🔗

Don’t let the buggers win, Tony! Every positive thought you have is a poke in their nasty little piggy eyes.
It,s really, really time we started meeting up. Tiny needs sane people and so do we all.

48561 ▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Tony, #199 of 1199 🔗

Hang in there Tony, please. Possible plans afoot to fight back big time and I don’t mean riots.

47419 Martin Spencer, replying to Martin Spencer, 1, #200 of 1199 🔗

Hoe exactly could Jezzer have been a worse PM than BoJo the Clown?:

47971 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to Martin Spencer, #201 of 1199 🔗

At this point, I’m starting to wonder that myself.

48562 ▶▶ Nel, replying to Martin Spencer, #202 of 1199 🔗

Jezzer would have brought in the red army by now

47423 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 10, #203 of 1199 🔗

Pre-op rules are keeping people from vital surgery, warns senior doctor
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/11/patients-postponing-elective-surgery-draconian-pre-op-coronavirus/

Under NHS England guidelines any elective patient due to have those operations should only be admitted to hospital if they remain asymptomatic having “isolated for 14 days prior to admission along with members of their household”. Even then, they should have a “pre-admission test” to double check that they do not have Covid-19.

47428 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to HawkAnalyst, 36, #204 of 1199 🔗

This is absolute fucking madness. Anyone thinking this is justified needs locking up – not for crimes, for insanity. (And then for crimes once they get out!)

47476 ▶▶ wendy, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #205 of 1199 🔗

Yes this is correct. Medical friends are telling me they have extended times of nothing to do because people don’t want to self isolate for 14 days or are afraid to go anywhere near a hospital in fear of catching the terrible virus. Very very poor.

47687 ▶▶▶ Letmeout, replying to wendy, 7, #206 of 1199 🔗

My husband had been having a few stomach issues back in March and was due to have a private procedure (camera down throat) on 1st April to rule out cancer. This was cancelled and the hospital phoned yesterday – earliest appointment 5th August and whole family to self isolate for 14 days beforehand. We have 3 teenagers – no chance are they staying in. Fortunately all symptoms have cleared up which is lucky as a 4 month delay on a diagnosis could be life changing. Wondering if I can get a refund from Bupa for my lack of medical cover during all this!

47738 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Letmeout, 6, #207 of 1199 🔗

Just lie to them. They deserve no better.

47515 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to HawkAnalyst, 8, #208 of 1199 🔗

Looks like they’ve run out of Old People to cull and now need to start on the Ill People. Delaying cancer operations is a good start on that goal.

47737 ▶▶ annie, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #209 of 1199 🔗

And if they die in the interim, who bloody cares, eh?

47424 Splotchy, 12, #210 of 1199 🔗

If mask-wearing in shops becomes mandatory, I shall do all my shopping online. Mask wearing (as in cloth masks often touched) is unhygienic, impedes communication, impedes vision thru steamed specs, is hot and unpleasant, and perpetuates fear. As well as being unnecessary. I’m astounded any conservative govt would even contemplate it.

Already I’m gravitating to Tesco who have relaxed somewhat, and for pubs where phone numbers are not taken. The best thing the govt could do is say: “Right, as you were,” and let everything open and anyone attend.

If so, those who are vulnerable or anxious (or fearstruck through repeated propaganda) would not go anywhere; understandable. But everyone else would (swiftly boosting business and revenue). After a few weeks of no increase in covid deaths it would become apparent the risk is negligible – as in well below a bog-standard annual flu-season, and thus reassured everyone could get back to normal.

We need normality. Not just for our personal well-being, but for human contact with families & friends, care of our vulnerable,, schools, leisure, cancer care/screening, normal health service, normal courts/legal processes, and normal work, enterprise, investment, optimism, happiness.

Keep it up Toby.

47434 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 23, #211 of 1199 🔗

We’re taking action against the government over face covering.

Please help if you are in the media/PR business.

We need to use this to at least shift public opinion.

Look at the latest post . More information coming regularly. Thanks

47441 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #212 of 1199 🔗

Good luck.

47446 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to TJN, 2, #213 of 1199 🔗

Thanks

47447 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #214 of 1199 🔗

All the best!

47462 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #215 of 1199 🔗

Thanks

47536 ▶▶ annie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #216 of 1199 🔗

Can only offer cash when required as have no relevant expertise, but go it!!!

47568 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, #217 of 1199 🔗

Have shared onwards.

47443 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 28, #218 of 1199 🔗

Mr Bart and I went to Central London today as a very popular place for afternoon tea was doing an offer so we booked a table to have a long delayed joint birthday celebration. The following were our observations:

  • social distancing points dotted about but people ignoring them as store didn’t have many customers
  • one way systems also ignored
  • there were hand sanitizers on various parts of the shop but customers were not forced to use them
  • staff mostly muzzled, it was fairly hard to have a conversation with them but bless them they tried and they kept up with their good customer service
  • no change in their restaurant layout – it was fairly civilised and mostly normal save for the muzzled staff

Walking down Piccadilly and Regent Street, it wasn’t as dead as it was a few weeks ago but still not that many people and barely anyone going inside the shops. Walked past Waterstones, Hatchards, Gap, L’Occitane and a few more big name stores and they were pretty devoid of customers. Even the Royal Academy wasn’t exactly heaving unlike last January when we went to see the Picasso exhibition.

If Boris thinks that mandatory muzzles will get more people out and spending then he’s very mistaken, if anything that would spell the death kneel of Central London and the various high streets up and down the country.

47455 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Bart Simpson, 16, #219 of 1199 🔗

The thing most likely to get people out and about is seeing other people out and about in as normal fashion as possible.

47465 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #220 of 1199 🔗

Exactly. There was more of the normal behavior along the Soutbank – no antisocial distancing and hardly any muzzles.A few food trucks have set up shop and Westminster council even provided portaloos for people to use.

47448 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 17, #221 of 1199 🔗

This is a decent rebuttal against face mask wearing if you’re healthy:

https://twitter.com/angiebUK/status/1281973694575910923

Don’t know how to link multiple images so have posted the most pertinant one for those who don’t have a Twitter account.

It also made me think. The argument for masks is that they may help in case you’re infected. But they definitely do not help if you’re healthy and can in fact be detrimental to health.

47450 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nobody2020, 13, #222 of 1199 🔗

I remember an eminent doctor who used the analogy of face mask usage by healthy people as like building a chain link fence to stop mosquitoes

47452 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #223 of 1199 🔗

I think the point is if you’re healthy the mask isn’t protecting anybody and it’s actually bad for your health.

47456 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #224 of 1199 🔗

Exactly. It’s very much an immunity suppressant and impedes proper breathing. No wonder people I’ve seen wearing them constantly touch their face because they’re struggling to breathe and probably already have too much CO2 in their systems.

47454 Adam, replying to Adam, 13, #225 of 1199 🔗

My phone decided to go for a burton this morning, so rushed into town this afternoon to the O2 shop. I have recurrent problems with my hearing, which have flared up again recently. I swear to God, she had to repeat everything to me 2 or 3 times behind her face nappy. Really was hard work making out what she said. Would have just left, but I needed a phone, and it would have been the same anywhere else. Would love to have told her to just take her stupid mask off because it muffled her voice, but it wasn’t her fault — she looked as pissed off to be wearing it as I would be.

47459 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Adam, 14, #226 of 1199 🔗

Witnessed a similar incident today as well, waiter who was muzzled had to repeat what he said 2-3 times to a customer who was hearing impaired. Felt sorry for both as it was clear that the waiter was pissed off with having to wear a muzzle and customer apologetic at having to ask him to repeat to her what he’s just said.

47581 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Adam, 8, #227 of 1199 🔗

I see this as one fatal reason why the mask is doomed. Even the most hystercally scared won’t endure repeating everything. One lady on the street today in full face visor and mask asked me for directions. Simply could not hear a word. She’ll reflect in time how fast she was to pull the mask down to get her words heard.

48563 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Basics, #228 of 1199 🔗

I do have a bit of a hearing problem but if I come across anyone in a mask I have to talk to I just tell them very loudly I can’t hear them and could they remove their mask. Everyone so far has complied. Some happily so.

47458 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #229 of 1199 🔗

I’m no expert but… so could compulsory mask wearing cause a spike in cases?

Let’s keep an eye on Scotland…

47471 ▶▶ John P, replying to Lockdown Truth, #230 of 1199 🔗

How?

47498 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 6, #231 of 1199 🔗

People wearing masks repeatedly will be reducing their immune system function and also breathing back in any viruses they would otherwise have expelled through breathing freely..

47530 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Carrie, 5, #232 of 1199 🔗

I don’t think either of those things would cause a spike but both are genuine concerns.

If everyone wore masks all the time (and that reduced transmission) it would reduce immunity and matters might then be worse (from other viruses) when everyone took their masks off at some point in the future, presumably after having been vaccinated for Covid but not for anything else.

Breathing your own virus back in is a concern because it might give an already infected person a lung infection when previously they just had a basic cold (upper respiratory tract) but it wouldn’t increase the total number of people infected (although some of them might test positive for longer and that might be interpreted as a spike).

47538 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to guy153, 4, #233 of 1199 🔗

No masks guy.

47535 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 6, #234 of 1199 🔗

That may be so, but that won’t cause a spike in cases of a virus that barely even exists in Scotland.

Might cause a spike in chest infections though.

47589 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 1, #235 of 1199 🔗

The Scottish crest has fallen! What a sublime and unintended put down to all the macmask wearers! So true John!

47594 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 1, #236 of 1199 🔗

Thank you. My mother is a Scotswoman.

47519 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #237 of 1199 🔗

I don’t think anything much will cause a spike anywhere in the UK (apart from small and unimportant fluctuations) as it looks like we’re basically at herd immunity.

Could masks cause a spike in a place that had very low immunity? Possibly yes if the confidence they gave people exceeded their actual ability to limit spread.

48564 ▶▶ Nel, replying to Lockdown Truth, #238 of 1199 🔗

Could possibly get face masks tested for germs to see what they come back with?

47463 Yawnyaman, replying to Yawnyaman, 15, #239 of 1199 🔗

Greetings from a new convert..For a while I was a neutral but I’m a data nerd and comparing Sweden and Norway’s infection curves on the John Hopkins site and realising they were exactly the same took me here.
One related issue to get the ball rolling. Why, when NHS figures for Covid 19 deaths are down to 20 or 30 daily do we get daily figures averaging three times that number? Per the ONS, care home deaths are pretty limited nowadays, so they can’t be the source and there is no audit trail or any further details from PHE. I can only suppose that these are individuals who tested positive but were either unaffected or too ill with other complaints to be worth treating. Either way they shouldn’t be in there. I rather fear that Government and Civil Service statistical incompetence is placing a serious millstone around its – and our – necks.

47475 ▶▶ John P, replying to Yawnyaman, 4, #240 of 1199 🔗

I think that sometimes the reporting of the deaths is delayed by several weeks.

47486 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Yawnyaman, 6, #241 of 1199 🔗

If you’re asking about death figures the numbers most people see, on Worldometer for example, are reported deaths. These are deaths that happened sometime in the past dating back weeks.

The graph for the actual day people died looks very different and there is a lag between when the deaths reported are reconciled with when they happened.

47531 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #242 of 1199 🔗

Thanks!

47496 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Yawnyaman, 5, #243 of 1199 🔗

Just want to say welcome to the site 🙂 !

47543 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 3, #244 of 1199 🔗

Seconded! Always pleased to meet a new recruit!

47646 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Yawnyaman, 2, #245 of 1199 🔗

Welcome to the club! The more the merrier!

47472 Phil Beckley, replying to Phil Beckley, 12, #246 of 1199 🔗

The ruling against Simon Dolan in court seems a likely contributing factor in Johnson’s announcement on masks. I can’t imagine it would have happened if the decision had gone the other way.

47493 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Phil Beckley, 7, #247 of 1199 🔗

I’m wondering if the two cases being brought regarding the closure of churches have also contributed to the mask decision – whether churches will now be told they can re-open, if people wear masks.
The case being brought by Christian Concern will be of particular sensitivity for the government, as they are invoking our Magna Carta rights – I somehow don’t think the government will be wanting the subject of our constitutional rights discussed!
If the churches are re-opened before the case reaches court, the judge will just be able to say a judicial review is unnecessary because churches are no longer shut..

47607 ▶▶▶ Phil Beckley, replying to Carrie, 4, #248 of 1199 🔗

I hope Christian Concern do not accept the wearing of masks as a pre-condition of opening of churches, which would seem to me to defy common sense. But yes, this may well be the government’s thinking – which does not say a lot for the government’s thinking. I am supporting the case brought by Christian Concern, and would personally not be happy about having to wear a mask.

47614 ▶▶▶▶ Ryan, replying to Phil Beckley, 6, #249 of 1199 🔗

My local Catholic Church (which I attend) started holding daily services with Holy Communion last Sunday – no masks required.

47626 ▶▶▶▶▶ Phil Beckley, replying to Ryan, 1, #250 of 1199 🔗

Thank you for the info – I shall check locally.

47740 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ryan, 7, #251 of 1199 🔗

How utterly wonderful!
Our Anglican and free churches are still tightly shut ( can’t open because of the impossible ‘precautions’), but the Catholic church us now open for private prayer and they welcome all comers. Bless them! If they re-start services I’ll be there. I don’t accept all their doctrine, but God is in their brave and generous hearts.

48536 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ nfw, replying to annie, 1, #252 of 1199 🔗

the CofE won’t do anything ’til the local imam approves it.

48537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to nfw, #253 of 1199 🔗

I long to be able to snortingly dismiss your comment.

But it’s just too plausible!

48566 ▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Phil Beckley, #254 of 1199 🔗

Write to them to ask them not to agree to that, they need to consider all side.

I don’t go to church so can’t honestly say I’d go otherwise I’d email them myself.

It would be ridiculous anyway around me as the two churches near me are large and have few parishioners so there’d be no problem with social distancing.

47473 Nobody2020, 5, #255 of 1199 🔗

I was set upon by 2 stooges on Twitter yesterday. I wondered where the third one went.

47474 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 20, #256 of 1199 🔗

The Guardian: Man plans to sue NHS after cancer surgery delayed due to coronavirus.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/11/man-plans-to-sue-nhs-after-cancer-surgery-delayed-due-to-coronavirus

47485 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #257 of 1199 🔗

There are no winners here. It’s a total F-Up what’s happened/happening.

47495 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Tom Blackburn, 24, #258 of 1199 🔗

I met a friend today who is a pathologist. She described seeing things now that she’s not witnessed before. Advanced stage cancers which should have been caught weeks ago. She said it was unprecedented and frightening. The backlog will take months to clear.

47517 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 12, #259 of 1199 🔗

Lockdown zealots don’t want to know though 🤷‍♂️

47521 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 7, #260 of 1199 🔗

Sadly, there will be a cancer epidemic.

47720 ▶▶▶ A leaf, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 1, #261 of 1199 🔗

This is so sad was so avoidable 🙁

47713 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #262 of 1199 🔗

It begins…..

47477 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #263 of 1199 🔗

Is there a reliable way for a non twitter user to extract all the tweets from a given account? Supposing an account is being used to cause fear in a nations physche and someone wanted to record the account. Is it techincally feasible?

I am thinking in terms of the reckoning to come. Thanks for any suggestions.

47482 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Basics, #264 of 1199 🔗

I don’t think you need a Twitter account to view someone’s tweets. And even so, you can always set up a fake Twitter account.

47497 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #265 of 1199 🔗

Thanks. I find it impossible to follow with threads spirallying out wards. If there was a way to capture the content such as page sucker that would really enable me to study – a kind of firm set of tweets. I will spend time uograding my tech skills. This account is doing serious damage to a nation.

47502 ▶▶▶▶ Anon, replying to Basics, #266 of 1199 🔗

It’s probable Brigade 77 our own arm propaganda corps that is being used by Boris to keep everyone terrified.

47861 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Anon, #267 of 1199 🔗

13th Signals too.

47490 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 1, #268 of 1199 🔗

I’ve seen people on Twitter asking for an unroll to do just that. Never done it myself so Googled it for you:

https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/25/21152579/twitter-thread-easier-full-text-reading-unroll-how-to

47501 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #269 of 1199 🔗

Excellent Nobody thank you. Unroll is the concept.. new word to me. I aim to plot against events. I suspect to find correlating tweets with events to give some insight into how deep unelected appointed ‘experts’ have gone to shape a nations thinking. Unrolling will be just the thing.

48567 ▶▶ Nel, replying to Basics, #270 of 1199 🔗

I htink there is something called an unroll or roll up where they condense things. Not sure if each tweet needs to be numbered though beforehand.

47478 John P, 10, #271 of 1199 🔗

“And i thought Paul Joseph Watson was the biggest unlikeable smug cunt alive”

No, that’s you Grant.

And how has your day been?

47479 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, -32, #272 of 1199 🔗

To be fair to Boris, he’s probably wearing a mask to lead by example. You can argue all you want about whether or not wearing a mask is good, but the government position is, wrong or right, for better or worse, that masks should be worn. So Boris is following his own guidelines, at least in this respect.
You can call him wrong, deluded, ignorant, but at least you can’t call him a hypocrite in this particular instance.

47483 ▶▶ John P, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 38, #273 of 1199 🔗

“To be fair to Boris”

But I don’t want to be fair to Boris.

He’s misinformed, incompetent and completely out of his depth. I want him out of number ten as soon as possible.

47484 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to John P, 26, #274 of 1199 🔗

If we were fair to Boris, it would be to offer him a choice between hanging, guillotining or de-fenestration.

47499 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, 14, #275 of 1199 🔗

I would add shooting or being forced to reenact Sisyphus for the rest of his life among the options.

47628 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #276 of 1199 🔗

Oh the latter, the latter.

47666 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #277 of 1199 🔗

And read Albert Camus’s The Myth of Sisyphus while doing it.

47751 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to richard riewer, 2, #278 of 1199 🔗

And the general public allowed to boo and pelt him with rotten food, stones, rubbish and milkshakes.

47547 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to IanE, 5, #279 of 1199 🔗

Make that window nice and high.

47800 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to IanE, #280 of 1199 🔗

No, no choice for Bottler, just as we’ve been afforded no choice since this entire farce began. I recommend that fine old English tradition: hung, drawn and quartered. And that it also be applied to the rest of the rogues in Westmonster and the devolved administrations. After all, Bottler Johnson shouldn’t have the fun all to himself.

47562 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to John P, 1, #281 of 1199 🔗

Problem is, who have we got to replace him?

47576 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to T. Prince, 15, #282 of 1199 🔗

To an extent I am not sure it matters. If he goes, which is unlikely to happen soon, the key thing is that the reason for his going must be made clear – that the wrong course of action was taken, and it was all a huge mistake.

Sadly, what is more likely is that he will either stay, because the opposition are so useless, or he will go but be replaced by more of the same.

Not one f***ing MP has spoken up, so I don’t much care who replaces him, unless whoever it is publicly apologises for the damage done.

48275 ▶▶▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to Julian, #283 of 1199 🔗

“not one MP has spoken up” …. it’s just mind boggling to me that no one, not one single solitary MP has had the guts to say that this whole farce, the complete eradication of many of our most basic civil liberties were swept aside. The very fact that not one of our elected representatives has raised the slightest concern is, to say the least, VERY CONCERNING!

48568 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Julian, #284 of 1199 🔗

Steve Baker had a bit of a stab at it and then seemed to back off.

47586 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to T. Prince, 6, #285 of 1199 🔗

I could probably trap the hedgehog living in our garden at the moment, if anyone wants ?

47597 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to John P, 10, #286 of 1199 🔗

“misinformed, incompetent and completely out of his depth”

Absolutely right.

47672 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 3, #287 of 1199 🔗

He’s a populist what do you expect. No substance at all.

47488 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 16, #288 of 1199 🔗

Of course you can call him a hypocrite it’s fucking photo op

48569 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Bella, #289 of 1199 🔗

That’s all he is doing. Photos. He’s certainly NOT running the Cabinet

47492 ▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 26, #290 of 1199 🔗

He is an ABSOLUTE hypocrite!
He is standing amongst un-masked shop staff, sporting a blue bag on his silly, silly face and begging to be loved by the MSM.

47569 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 31, #291 of 1199 🔗

lead by example.”

He had the opportunity to show leadership at the start of this – his Churchill moment – and he panicked and blew it. Everything since then has been a combination of cowardice, and arse-covering. They love the power and are shit scared their blunder will be exposed and their careers finished.

He is utterly cynical. He knows very well masks are useless, he knows very well Leicester didn’t have a real problem and it was manufactured.

It’s all theatre.

He is much worse than a hypocrite, much worse than wrong, deluded and ignorant.

As someone said earlier, he’s the worst Prime Minister since before Walpole.

Also the PM doesn’t go shopping, he has people to do it for him. As we have seen, the insane they make up for us do not apply to them, which is standard operating procedure for despots.

47602 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Julian, 4, #292 of 1199 🔗

“arse-covering”, yes indeed, since about the beginning of April

47627 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #293 of 1199 🔗

Bollox. He loves gimmicky photo ops. It’s probably the last time you’ll see him wearing one.

47640 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #294 of 1199 🔗

Er, yeah you can call him a hypocrite since he’s been going along with the whole masks have a limited effect line all along and now is changing his tune, according to the shifting science of course! He’s a buffoon, the worst and most devastatingly incompetent PM this country has ever known.

47669 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #295 of 1199 🔗

BS – they’ve been highly sceptical about mask wearing until about a week ago.

48570 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to OKUK, #296 of 1199 🔗

A fixed poll sad somewhere that masks were good and he believed it for the virtue signalling and pat on the back he’d get for it

47481 Little Red Hen, replying to Little Red Hen, 11, #297 of 1199 🔗

And yet here you are – voraciously reading every post (that means hungrily…) and taking time out from masturbating and eating Pringles to type a few unintelligible gobbets of shite. You can’t get enough of us, can you?

Your mother (that’s her in the lounge just above your head) must be so proud…

47557 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Little Red Hen, 2, #298 of 1199 🔗

Grant MM, the Muzzled Moron…and super Gimp

47572 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Little Red Hen, 2, #299 of 1199 🔗

Superb takedown. Grant goes to the doctor: “Doc I’m worried about my cock, it’s orange”. Doctor, concerned Grant may have been the victim of an industrial accident asks Grant what he does for a living to which Grant replies”Oh I don’t work, I just sit in my mum’s basement all day reading lockdown sceptics, wanking and eating Wotsits”

47487 StevieH, replying to StevieH, 28, #300 of 1199 🔗

First weekend in our house in Pembrokeshire since house arrest. Small coastal village village not far from Tenby, very popular with tourists.Expected it to be a ghost town, but it was heaving! Local brewery pub was doing take-outs. First cask-conditioned beer for four months! Heaven! Lots of people in party mode! One sad, masked guy out of hundreds. No anti-social distancing at all! Such a boost to the spirit!

47549 ▶▶ annie, replying to StevieH, 5, #301 of 1199 🔗

Hey, you’re in my part of the world! Welcome! Enjoy!

47676 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to StevieH, 2, #302 of 1199 🔗

I visited Pembrokeshire with my Cotswold girlfriend just before Christmas in 1976. Saw the pre-Christmas parade and took a tour of Pembroke Castle. I still have the brochure that I bought there.

47742 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 8, #303 of 1199 🔗

Pembroke Castle is great. So is everything in Pembrokeshire, apart from the usual quota of zombies, who dominate the local media ( avoid).
I do hope you appreciate the nasty-notice-free footpaths that I have been sanitising for you at great personal cost (in dogshit bags).

48525 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #304 of 1199 🔗

Hi Annie, I live in Montreal, Quebec, Canada now. Pembroke Castle is now a far away memory that I still cherish. I have reread the brochure that I bought there many times in the past forty years.

47494 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 34, #305 of 1199 🔗

Pure fear porn:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/10/43-local-areas-where-cases-coronavirus-are-soaring-12970913/

Take Southampton for example. The shocking headline reads that cases have increased a staggering 1087% as they have jumped from 0.4 per 100k to 4.8 per 100k. Holy crap!! We have risen from 0.00039999999999999996% of the population to 0.0048000000000000004%.

Lock yourselves away, the end is nigh.

Or maybe increased testing? Either way fuck all to worry about.

47630 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 3, #306 of 1199 🔗

The map itself is literally like a slice of doom painted in guache in a 1940s propaganda unit…! Stunning. There is a connection between press and local press in all this. Our local rag did exactly the same story for 15 areas around the city giving huge 15% figures and so on. It was soon worked out that the areas matched carehome locations. Next day, the 8 areas where covid had never been. Bit of a shocker that!

47500 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 10, #307 of 1199 🔗

New Zealand looking to seal its borders for years to come with any visitor locked up in their cell for 2 weeks and to undergo multiple tests.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/07/new-zealand-to-quarantine-people-for-months-maybe-years-as-covid-19-rages-around-world-epidemiologist-michael-baker.html

47505 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #308 of 1199 🔗

By heavens – still, as they walk about upside-down, what else would you expect?

47506 ▶▶ John P, replying to Peter Thompson, 14, #309 of 1199 🔗

Jacinda Ardern is insane.

47523 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #310 of 1199 🔗

Boycott New Zealand!

47524 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #311 of 1199 🔗

The decent moderation of today will be the least of human things tomorrow. At the time of the Spanish Inquisition, the opinion of good sense and of the good medium was certainly that people ought not to burn too large a number of heretics; extreme and unreasonable opinion obviously demanded that they should burn none at all – Maurice Maeterlinck

47553 ▶▶ Rick, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #312 of 1199 🔗

Stop buying their lamb and they will be bankrupt inside 6 months.

47575 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Rick, 1, #313 of 1199 🔗

Isn’t all their lamb Halal these days?

47578 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 8, #314 of 1199 🔗

It has always struck me as very odd that we import lamb from the other side of the globe when the English countryside is crawling with them.

47631 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, #315 of 1199 🔗

Field lice.

47745 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #316 of 1199 🔗

Hey, back off! Our local sheep are far more intelligent and better-looking than our local zombies – and the latter provide neither meat nor wool.

48458 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #317 of 1199 🔗

Your local sheep taste better than the zombies too.

47503 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 17, #318 of 1199 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/11/second-wave-covid-swedish-approach-will-have-right-along/

If there is a second wave of Covid, the Swedish approach will have been right all along

The catastrophe never arrived. As in most other European countries, Sweden saw a peak in Covid-19 deaths in the first half of April followed by a steady decline. Shown on a graph, the pattern of mortality is indistinguishable from that of many countries that locked down. Its daily death toll rarely exceeded double figures and has been below 30 since mid-June. As in Britain, half the deaths were in care homes and two-thirds of those who died were aged 80 or over.

……………….

It is now considered gauche to compare Sweden to Britain, Italy, Spain or any other country that had a higher death rate. You are only allowed to compare it to its immediate neighbours where the death rate is lower. Mention the UK or, heaven forbid, Belgium (which locked down a week before the UK and has the highest COVID-19 death rate in the world) and you will be told that they should have locked down sooner. The proposition becomes unfalsifiable. Heads they win, tails you lose.

47550 ▶▶ John P, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #319 of 1199 🔗

“If there is a second wave of Covid”

I’m going to make a prediction. There won’t be.

47808 ▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to John P, 6, #320 of 1199 🔗

Oh, I think there will be a second wave. It’ll be manufactured of course (after all, look how the media seems to no longer report deaths but infections – always go with the largest, scariest number), but it will be there.

47783 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #321 of 1199 🔗

Or failing that, they make comparisons using a rolling average deaths per million on a chart. The one I saw conveniently stopped on the 19th June, when Sweden had just added a load of historic care home deaths. Hmm. They’ll try anything to twist the stats. Anything.

48197 ▶▶ steve, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #322 of 1199 🔗

The peak we saw was probably the second “peak “
The idea that the world suddenly managed to catch the first peak is daft.

The peak was simply an increase in awareness and a change in the rules to maximise the number of cases seen. Every flu like symptom was to blame for every death

47509 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 17, #323 of 1199 🔗

On a positive note, played a full game of cricket today. It was great to be playing again. We had spectators so had to virtue signal the hand sanitising every 6 overs but many faked it. A doctor on the team backed up much of what the Surrey doctor said but would not go far as to say ambulances were blue lighting.

Vast majority thought measures an absolute pile of shite. One player involved in testing (blood rather than pcr) and interesting said that evidence suggests that antibodies are expected to last 8 years.

Used the opportunity to mention some stats and figures and got good response from those that had never questioned anything.

47554 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 4, #324 of 1199 🔗

Oooh, dear, I do hope you sanitised your balls.

47564 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to annie, #325 of 1199 🔗

😳

47649 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to annie, 1, #326 of 1199 🔗

There was copious amounts of ball sanitising and we are all safe and well. Thank you for your concern Annie

47660 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sarigan, #327 of 1199 🔗

Is there much ball tampering at the level you’re playing at?

47577 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Sarigan, 3, #328 of 1199 🔗

Great news that you’re back playing. Amateur horse sports re started this week. I didn’t attend myself but I know lots of people that did. One event had 1000 entries on it’s first day! People are really keen to get back out there.

47585 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to The Spingler, 7, #329 of 1199 🔗

Sport Endurance won’t restart endurance riding because riders and Marshals are too fearful of the virus. We ride 700kg of unpredictable horseflesh at speed across open country. The marshalls stand miles apart on bleak open terrain often in pouring rain or burning sun. And we’re scared of a not very fatal virus?!

47593 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #330 of 1199 🔗

Another endurance rider 🙂 I used to be, but prefer trotting in circles these days 😉

47729 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to The Spingler, 6, #331 of 1199 🔗

There seem to be quite a few horse riders/horse carers on here, including me. I wonder if it’s because we have spent our lives realising it’s more important to live fully doing what you enjoy, than being frightened of every little risk?

47749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #332 of 1199 🔗

I’m here, because the horse needs a rest from time to time, but anybody who is totally occupied with sensible equine matters is fine by me!

47747 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 7, #333 of 1199 🔗

Encapsulates the entire insanity. My riding instructor used to face death or serious injury on a daily basis, backing horses she had never seen before, but the Bug has her literally cowering in a corner. She’s in her thirties and as healthy as a …

47603 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 2, #334 of 1199 🔗

Re every 6 overs! This miraculous croni can count overs now! It is a remarkable little fellow.

47514 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #335 of 1199 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/11/learn-workers-rights-will-count-little-no-work/

We’re about to learn that workers’ rights will count for little when there’s no work

47546 ▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #336 of 1199 🔗

Staff could get legal right to work from home, says Matt Hancock
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/10/government-could-pass-new-law-give-staff-legal-right-work-home/

“This could be a government backed right to loaf on your sofa.”

47782 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #337 of 1199 🔗

That’ll be good. Such a shame I work in heavy manufacturing.

47880 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #338 of 1199 🔗

…. and would result in more job losses

48527 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to HawkAnalyst, #339 of 1199 🔗
47556 T. Prince, 2, #340 of 1199 🔗

Urgh what a nasty piece of human excrement you are. You’ve exceeded even your own very low bar. Keep it coming because, reading what you bring here, makes us right and you’re… well you’re just scum

47558 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #341 of 1199 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/11/government-preparing-ease-restrictions-using-public-transport/

Government preparing to ease public transport restrictions to get people back to work

Last week, the Department of Transport removed from its website the guidance that public transport should be avoided to prevent the spread of coronavirus. It continues to urge people to work from home wherever possible, consider “cycling and walking before using public transport”, and avoid rush hour travel.

48571 ▶▶ Nel, replying to HawkAnalyst, #342 of 1199 🔗

I wonder if that was on the back of Bojo being accosted by someone about lack of buses when he was walking around in his constituency. Read it somewhere

48572 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Nel, #343 of 1199 🔗

He’s a populist don’t you know.

47559 Julian, 7, #344 of 1199 🔗

Dear GrantM
I really think you should stop posting abuse here. It’s not healthy. I think you should try to find something else to do. I’m honestly not trying to be patronising or snarky here. I disagree with your views, in so far as you have expressed any, and I get the impression you disagree with some of mine, but I think we should agree to differ.
Please argue a case, for something you sincerely believe in, without resorting to abuse, and you’ll get some reasoned debate. Otherwise I hope you can find something more life-affirming to do, as this cannot be good for you.

47570 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 13, #345 of 1199 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/11/asymptomatic-patients-should-tell-gp-have-covid-antibodies-case/

Asymptomatic patients ‘should tell GP if they have Covid antibodies in case of long-term effects’

Kate Ellison
11 Jul 2020 7:06PM

Anybody else as sick of all this as I am?
Sunak photographed carrying plates of food around in an enclosed space, no mask then Johnson photographed in a shop a couple of days later, mask on. Now we hear he’s likely to announce masks will be mandatory in shops at the same time as social distancing, so why wont masks be equally important in restaurants? Oh, because you wouldnt be able to eat 🙄 .
It’s all the biggest load of bs I’ve encountered in my life.
No doubt if you test positive to antibodies for the Wuhan flu you’ll have to declare it on your life insurance, just another way for them to scam the masses.
Boll**ks to the lot of them.

47588 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #346 of 1199 🔗

You can’t see a GP these days anyway. But regardless, how will this work? If your leg falls off in 2040, will they blame that on an asymptomatic infection you had 20 years ago?

48574 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to A. Contrarian, #347 of 1199 🔗

Dies of Covid19, 40 years later

47712 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to HawkAnalyst, 11, #348 of 1199 🔗

Just never get tested. Ever.

At this point in time they can’t force you unless you’re coughing and spluttering all over the place. And if you’re doing that, you should be in bed.

48573 ▶▶ Nel, replying to HawkAnalyst, #349 of 1199 🔗

It’s all a means of getting our data to sell. Black gold – worth billions

47579 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #350 of 1199 🔗

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/belgium-government-warns-citizens-not-4317640

Leicester is the only UK location to have been put in a “red zone” of risky destinations in Belgium’s travel advice.
Also placed in the red zone are regions in Portugal and Spain.

47580 ▶▶ John P, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #351 of 1199 🔗

I’m sure that’ll devastate the Leicester tourist industry, Hawk …

48194 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to John P, #352 of 1199 🔗

Visiting those high end factories where FAST fashion is made!

47587 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #353 of 1199 🔗

Government won’t reveal Leicester’s test and trace stats

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/government-wont-reveal-leicesters-test-4315141

The Government has said it will not share the number of people being contacted by test and trace staff in Leicester and Leicestershire – despite the current outbreak and local lockdown.
LeicestershireLive asked the Department for Health and Social Care for a breakdown detailing how many people in the city and county have received calls from the call centres set up to track down people who have been in contact with those who test positive for coronavirus.

The Public Health England report that put Leicester into lockdown , revealed Leicester cases “form part of a current study on the utility of backward contact tracing which is being piloted across England”.
It stated Leicester city residents have been included in the pilot but revealed just 11 cases have completed the study successfully – the target was 50.

48575 ▶▶ Nel, replying to HawkAnalyst, #354 of 1199 🔗

I read somewhere that they were going door to door in one area in Leceister (think I saw it on twitter) and the narrative made it clear they were to comply

47598 HawkAnalyst, 1, #355 of 1199 🔗

Chinese virologist accuses Beijing of coronavirus cover-up, flees Hong Kong: ‘I know how they treat whistleblowers’

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chinese-virologist-coronavirus-cover-up-flee-hong-kong-whistleblower

47605 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 10, #356 of 1199 🔗

Looks Like Sweden Was Right After All

https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/looks-like-sweden-was-right-after-all/

In other words, Sweden is rapidly approaching the endgame which means that restrictions can be dropped entirely and normal life can resume. They will have maintained their dignity and freedom while the rest of the world hid under their beds for months on end . They won’t have to reopen their primary schools because they never shut them down to begin with. Numerous reports indicate that young children are neither at risk nor do they pass the virus to others. Most Americans don’t know this because the propaganda media has omitted the news from their coverage. Here’s a clip from the National Review which helps to explain:

Kari Stefansson, CEO of the Icelandic company deCODE genetics in Reykjavík, studied the spread of COVID-19 in Iceland with Iceland’s Directorate of Health and the National University Hospital. His project has tested 36,500 people; as of this writing,

Children under 10 are less likely to get infected than adults and if they get infected, they are less likely to get seriously ill. What is interesting is that even if children do get infected, they are less likely to transmit the disease to others than adults. We have not found a single instance of a child infecting parents.” ( “Icelandic Study: ‘We Have Not Found a Single Instance of a Child Infecting Parents.’ “, National Review)

47781 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #357 of 1199 🔗

The Diamond Princess is so very inconvenient for the lockdown zealots. Have tripped up so many using that ship and its Covid problem.

47610 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #358 of 1199 🔗

That I’ll fitting blue face mask reminds me of a posing pouch my husband once got in Secret Santa. Maybe if Bojo tucked in a rolled up pair of socks, it would look more impressive? It worked for my hubby 😂

47752 ▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #359 of 1199 🔗

No joke. Daily T. some weeks ago was solemnly explaining how to make a mask out of an old sock.

47618 Cambridge N, 1, #360 of 1199 🔗

I am disappointed by your use of foul language. But perhaps you are suffering from Tourette’s.

47622 Phil Beckley, replying to Phil Beckley, 7, #361 of 1199 🔗

I wonder whether Grant M’s diatribe, referring to lockdown sceptics as selfish, followed on from the Guardian’s injunction to us all to cover our face with masks. This would then be standard SJW stuff: the moral imperative has been set and everybody who even dissents is evil and to be cancelled. It seems at least possible to me that Boris Johnson may also have bee n influenced by a growing demand for mask-wearing; whether it makes any sense from an objective point of view is of course beside the point.

47632 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Phil Beckley, 7, #362 of 1199 🔗

Pulling a close fitting filthy rag full of pathogens across your nose and mouth cannot be good for you but that’s what the “government” want us to do.

47636 ▶▶ John P, replying to Phil Beckley, #363 of 1199 🔗

GrantM comes here for attention sometimes Phil.

47624 Cambridge N, 2, #364 of 1199 🔗

Twins separated at birth? Nicola and Wee Jimmy

https://twitter.com/dht1690/status/843600495042269186/photo/1

47625 Invunche, 2, #365 of 1199 🔗

“‘Civil servants are told to read up on Dominic Cummings as overhaul looms‘ – Turns out, the Cabinet Office has drawn up a 20-page synopsis of Dominic Cummings’s famously prolix blog posts so incoming officials can brief themselves on the great man’s thoughts”

Anything on how as soon as he joined the SAGE meetings the lockdown order was instantaneously made? Based on nothing but bollocks from Neil Ferguson and Dom’s fear of Spanish Flu?

47629 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 19, #366 of 1199 🔗

The descent into mad Maskism really spends the end for this government. They’ve turned victory into defeat,confidence into cowardice and the economy into mincemeat.

47635 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to OKUK, 16, #367 of 1199 🔗

Right people.
Calm down.
This is all drivel and we all know its drivel.
The best option in not to get angry but ignore it.
I live in London and travel on the Tube and buses unmasked.
I have been stopped a few times on the Tube (never buses) and simply present this (I’ve printed out loads of them):

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020 – Reasonable excuse
4. For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—
(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(I)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010), or
(ii)without severe distress;
British Heart Foundation
https://www.bhf.org.uk/for-professionals/healthcare-professionals/blog/coronavirus-and-heart-conditions-what-patients-are-concerned-about#mask
Should I wear a mask to protect myself from coronavirus?
‘No. Wearing a mask if you have a heart condition is not recommended as it could / may make breathing more difficult.’

Once that is displayed I have never had an issue. You are under no obligation whatsoever to prove any of this.
Simple.
It’s even better when on the tube the conversation goes like this after being questioned:
Me: Are you a married man constable?
Constable: Yes
Me: Are you embarrassed to tell your wife what you do for a living? Well you should be. Harassing people going about their business and threatening them with little bits of paper because they are not wearing a face nappy. You are an embarrassment. You should be ashamed of yourself. Is this why you became a police officer?
Constable: Just doing my job
Me: Go away and leave me alone.

The look in people’s eyes (I was going to say faces but they were muzzled and I couldn’t see) when they hear this interaction is amazing. Given this was the Piccadilly line with foreigners going to Heathrow, seeing a policeman being spoken to in this way was a shock to them.
I’m going to Loch Lomond on holiday in 2 weeks and have these prepared for North of the Border:

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions) (Scotland) Regulations 2020
PART 5 Interpretation and expiry
(b) any person under 70 who has an underlying health condition, including but not limited to, the conditions listed in schedule 2

SCHEDULE 2 Underlying Medical Conditions
2. Chronic heart disease, such as heart failure.
8. A weakened immune system as the result of conditions such as HIV and AIDS, or medicines such as steroid tablets or chemotherapy.

Don’t get mad.
Ignore them

47642 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ryan, 2, #368 of 1199 🔗

Not all conversations with the police would go that way and after your arrest they could check on your social media posting and prove your objection was political. At the least you’d have over a year of worry you might end up in prison. Oppression is effective as we see all around the world.

47648 ▶▶▶▶ Ryan, replying to OKUK, 3, #369 of 1199 🔗

Piffle

47655 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ryan, 2, #370 of 1199 🔗

Yep, sorry OKUK, have to agree with Scotty on this one.

47657 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 2, #371 of 1199 🔗

Well when we see the mass protests against mandatory mask wearing I’ll be proved wrong won’t I? How are the mass protests going in Scotland?

47686 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 4, #372 of 1199 🔗

Who was talking about mass protests?

I had a 20-25 minute discussion with a local plod, asking him at one point whether he had joined up to enforce a police state. (He said he was only obeying orders.).

If everyone has a polite but firm conversation, when approached by plod on these matters, they’ll be back investigating trans-hate offences before you know it.

47690 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 3, #373 of 1199 🔗

I can’t believe your naivety. The police have orders of the day. If they didn’t arrest you it’s because they were told to go easy. If there are no mass protests that means the oppression is working.

47695 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 5, #374 of 1199 🔗

Naivety. Anything’s possible. You might be a perceptive human being. 🙂

If they didn’t arrest me it’s because they didn’t have anything to arrest me for. I couldn’t resist suggesting he go off and pursue some real criminals as a parting shot. 🙂

There are no mass protests because for four months, we have not had a free or even a balanced voice. Oh, and because at least 80% of our brothers and sisters are lazy, stupid, or both.

47698 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, -1, #375 of 1199 🔗

I think you are kind of making my point for me except I would say most people are not lazy or stupid just genuinely frightened – often more for their families than themselves.

47701 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 1, #376 of 1199 🔗

After four months, with oodles of internet, what other than laziness or stupidity (fear ?) justifies them not having educated themselves ?
(Trauma-based mind control via the media notwithstanding.).

47811 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to JohnB, 4, #377 of 1199 🔗

I hope you reminded said Plod that the old “I was only following orders” defence didn’t work so well at Nuremberg in ’46…

47668 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to JohnB, 5, #378 of 1199 🔗

I hope you and Scotty are right… I want to be wrong like I have never wanted to be wrong in my life. But read about Spain above. Watch youtube videos in American counties. It’s coming this way, too.

Goddamn I hope you’re both right.

47692 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TyLean, 1, #379 of 1199 🔗

Spain <> UK. Some of them even think Sergio Ramos isn’t a cunt.

USA is obviously v big – I’m sure things vary from the conformist to the Constitutional there.

Should it come, there is always the exemption route, the hermit route, or the “At least I can give the magistrate some useful information.” route. 🙂

47696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, #380 of 1199 🔗

Liberal use of the C word never won an argument.

47697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 1, #381 of 1199 🔗

Worked for Derek and Clive.

47705 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 2, #382 of 1199 🔗

You c*** – it never f***ing did.

47951 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #383 of 1199 🔗

🙂

47711 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Ryan, 2, #384 of 1199 🔗

At the end of the day “mandatory” still only means “guided insistence”

47848 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Farinances, #385 of 1199 🔗

Afraid not. Mandatory means legally enforceable. With fines, etc.

47778 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ryan, 3, #386 of 1199 🔗

I intend to write “This is what fascism looks like 2020” on mine.

47817 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Ryan, 4, #387 of 1199 🔗

I’m with Scotty on this.
Scottish Gov advice:
http://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-phase-3-staying-safe-and-protecting-others/pages/face-coverings/
Says:
“You may also have a reasonable excuse not to wear a face covering if, for example:
you have a health condition or you are disabled and a face covering would be inappropriate because it would cause difficulty, pain or severe distress or anxiety”
I reckon the fact that “The Science” tends towards evidence that masks are bad for your health is a cause for “anxiety” without the need for further evidence of any medical condition other than “being a human being who needs to be able to breathe safely”.

47633 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 6, #388 of 1199 🔗

Politics is all about who controls the language. Perhaps we should call them pathogen rags rather than masks.

47691 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to OKUK, #389 of 1199 🔗

Let’s call Covid19 Microbe Aggression.

47694 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to richard riewer, #390 of 1199 🔗

🙂

47760 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, 3, #391 of 1199 🔗

Someone called them “vanity hammocks”

47634 Richardm, 2, #392 of 1199 🔗

They say every cloud has a silver lining, all remains is to discover whether it is sunshine or lightening. For many the easing of the lockdown seems worse than entering into one, and the government are indeed heading for a day of reckoning.

There may be time to do something about it – I don’t mean the government they will have to take their chances now. I mean the many business managers and employees wallowing in a sea of fear of one kind or another. There have been a couple of articles by different authors having a unique insight in the U.K. workplace. One by an occupational physician, and the other by an employment lawyer – together, in my view, join the ‘dots’ that banish that fear.

First the workplace is not a hazard: https://lockdownsceptics.org/covid-19-as-a-workplace-hazard/

This is later reinforced with what a reasonable man or woman would recognise as a common sense and pragmatic approach to reducing risk in the workplace: https://lockdownsceptics.org/covid-19-as-a-workplace-hazard-part-2/

Finally, the equally pragmatic counsel of the lawyer offers concrete examples about how to deal with the consequences of that fear spilling over into the workplace: http://www.jacksonosborne.co.uk/2020/07/covid-19-is-not-a-serious-and-imminent-danger-risk-assessments-might-be/

The difference between possibilities offered by experts and MSM and reasoned probability is your sanity.

47638 Brian D, replying to Brian D, 8, #393 of 1199 🔗

From feeling positive at the real common sense on display on these comments … to disgust at BBC ‘reporting’ ….

This on their current news pages:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53371441

Professor Trisha Greenhalgh from Oxford University, who argued for widespread use of face coverings in April, told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme the vast majority of scientists “are now persuaded by the evidence” that wearing masks in crowded places can reduce transmission.

Asked about the suggestion that face masks benefit others more than the wearer, she said: “Broadly speaking, if I’m wearing a face covering it might protect you 80% and it might protect me 20% or 30%.

“There is a little bit of protection for the person wearing the face coverings but it’s not nearly as much as it protects other people from the droplets coming out of the person’s mouth.”

It’s a shame they never share any of this science with us… just models and saying ‘look – Japan’ but they know full well most people don’t look past the statements.

I find it more and more sinister how they can just lie and treat us as if we’re below their level. Urgh.

Today was a bad day… had to go to Next to take something back – hand sanitizer was compulsory and I was grumpy about it but later apologised to the door lady (I only grumbled) because I know it’s not her fault but I may send off an email to Next.

Later on visited a very nice cafe, an independent but was shocked when they asked for our contact details – I had thought this was only a pub thing so was caught off guard and didn’t want to start an argument with my wife so let her give our details. Next time I may say no thanks. However it is one of those places which is truly independent and they are lovely so would hate them to suffer economically.

Later on, walking by a green space on a residential area and spotted one of those red covid signs ! Sigh!

Need to go figure out what type of ‘mask’ I will wear if made to! Eg a paper bag or maybe a plastic one and write on it ‘you wouldn’t recommend suffocation with one of these – so why a mask?’

47643 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Brian D, 2, #394 of 1199 🔗

It’s been sinister for a long time.

47653 ▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to Brian D, 3, #395 of 1199 🔗

I just gave a fake name and telephone number when asked for mine. I pointed out it was optional but the waitress already looked terrified at speaking to a human so it was easier to make up information…

47678 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Doctor Y, 4, #396 of 1199 🔗

If Matt Handcock gets this virus, the contact tracers will need to visit pubs and restaurants all over the land. 🙂

47717 ▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to JohnB, #397 of 1199 🔗

Didn’t he get it a week or so into lockdown?

47724 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Mark H, #398 of 1199 🔗

Allegedly.

47772 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Doctor Y, 3, #399 of 1199 🔗

Remember that Lord Lucan’s real name was Richard John Bingham and his address was 46 Lower Belgrave Street, London, SW1W.

47768 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Brian D, 5, #400 of 1199 🔗

Folk who say “look, Japan” (or any other Asian country) don’t seem to realise, or conveniently overlook, that face masks became popular there to keep diesel smuts out of their respiratory tract, especially in cities. It had nothing to do with preventing the spread of disease.

47793 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #401 of 1199 🔗

And don’t forget too that mask wearing in Japan has lead to all sorts of psychological problems especially with their menfolk.

47810 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Brian D, #402 of 1199 🔗

She’s another one who used to be at UCL as a professor – which has major links back to you all know who by now.

47814 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #403 of 1199 🔗

And oh look who’s doing an interview a while back at the Queen Mary University in London where the good professor also used to work:

https://www.qmul.ac.uk/events/digital-library/items/a-conversation-with-bill-gates.html

47651 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 2, #404 of 1199 🔗

OK let’s have some alternative names for these masks. I’ll start:

Pathogen rags

Snot blockers

Germ gatherers

Hidin’ Bidens

Saliva divers

I’ve noted people using “face nappies” as well…

47658 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to OKUK, 3, #405 of 1199 🔗

Face Nappies is a good one…. it implies that shit spews forth from their mouths.

I am partial to sanitary towel references, too…. not sure why, but it amuses me.

47662 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to TyLean, 8, #406 of 1199 🔗

Clampons?

47663 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to OKUK, 2, #407 of 1199 🔗

HAHAHA!!!

47659 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to OKUK, 2, #408 of 1199 🔗

Subjugation Attire

47665 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to TyLean, 4, #409 of 1199 🔗

I guess “slavewear” says it all…

47679 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to OKUK, #410 of 1199 🔗

Pathetic Prosthetic.

47684 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, #411 of 1199 🔗

I like it!

47858 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #412 of 1199 🔗

(Biological) Culture Canceler

Has a double meaning.

47689 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, #413 of 1199 🔗

WIFI – Weak Individual Face Indicator

47706 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to OKUK, 1, #414 of 1199 🔗

Vernon Cole is referring them as ‘naps’ in keeping with the nappies analogy.

DavidC

47722 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to OKUK, 4, #415 of 1199 🔗

CO2 inhaler
Compliance appliance
Oxymoron

47756 ▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 4, #416 of 1199 🔗

Thinking of a slogan for my car window:

DO YOU PEE THROUGH YOUR NOSE AND POO THROUGH YOUR MOUTH?
No?
THEN WHY ARE YOU WEARING A NAPPY ON YOUR FACE?

48189 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, #417 of 1199 🔗

Yeah but replace pee with piss and poo with shit and let’s get real. Otherwise you’re being too polite to the (putative) opposition and, if they abuse you for not wearing a mask, the enemy.

47761 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, 1, #418 of 1199 🔗

Vanity Hammocks especially if they’re the Boden or Cath Kidston kind.

47882 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to OKUK, #419 of 1199 🔗

Submission missionary
Masks for masochists

47904 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to OKUK, 2, #420 of 1199 🔗

Insanitiser

48159 ▶▶ Lurker, replying to OKUK, 1, #421 of 1199 🔗

Burkah

47661 Ian2, replying to Ian2, 10, #422 of 1199 🔗

Half-past midnight in a town in central Spain. The temperature is over 30C but strollers are nearly all wearing face nappies. This is physically uncomfortable of course, but gut-churning for those of us horrified that nearly everyone accepts muzzle-wearing just because the government and media say it is a good idea and frown at those few who dont comply.Actually, here the law mandates masks only at ranges closer than 1-2 metres but more and more local authorities are making them obligatory in all public space, so you risk a fine if you sit alone on a park bench or stroll along the beach with your mask down and nobody in sight. So watch out Britain, this is coming your way

47674 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ian2, 4, #423 of 1199 🔗

That pretty much speaks to the point I made below about the power of oppression.

47664 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 4, #424 of 1199 🔗

You know what kills me about Owen Jones….. He wrote the book The Establishment, which is brilliant. I highly recommend it despite the author. He should KNOW…. that this newfound “power” is at the behest of the establishment, and the cancel culture left are actually pawns doing their biding…. he literally wrote the book!!

47673 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to TyLean, 4, #425 of 1199 🔗

There are always establishments, always elites. The important question is: how afraid are they of the people?

47763 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 2, #426 of 1199 🔗

At the moment, not very afraid. But that can always change in an instant.

47730 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to TyLean, 2, #427 of 1199 🔗

I tried to read that book but couldn’t get to the end. He makes some good points but I found it a little tedious him attributing every little thing to the Establishment.

In these times, I’d be much more inclined to reach for Foucault and his theories on power / knowledge-production which provides a more holistic and philosophical outlook compared to Jones’ perennial underdog / bitter outcast stance. And I’m a (centre) lefty – or was until I became outright anti-government.

47967 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Tom Blackburn, #428 of 1199 🔗

I’d rather read Foucault as well to be truthful, but perhaps part of my praise of The Establishment rests in my dislike and low expectations of Owen Jones?

48114 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to TyLean, 2, #429 of 1199 🔗

I don’t know what it is about OJ – he seems to annoy everyone apart from a small, very vocal minority on the far left. His heart is in the right place but he doesn’t ever seen to get it. I’d like to see him pissed up throwing a traffic cone at a taxi. Then (and only then) I might start to warm to him

47681 nfw, replying to nfw, 8, #430 of 1199 🔗

It’s all a con. In the Australian state of the People’s not so Democratic Socialist Wannabe Republic of Victoria there is now an illegal house arrest for a fortnight with the borders of NSW and South Australia being shut. However the Premier, a real dope who took 7 years to do his 3 year Arts degree, gave three days warning of the impending illegal house arrest. That gave the Australian Football League teams based in Victoria time to move interstate with their families and managers and various hangers-on. If it had been such a dire emergency it should have been illegal house arrest immediately. But no, it gave the money making machines time to relocate and take their supposed Chinese killing grandma Wuhan Virus Flu with them. It’s not a problem it seems where money is concerned.

By the way, the cowardly Prime Minster is loaning the Australian Defence Force to help patrol the respective state borders, which are either a creek masquerading as a river or lines in the dirt. Will be interesting if any ADF member shoots and kills a member of the public; that would be murder as they ADF pers are not sworn constables for the states in which they operate. It is also possible if any even touch a member of the public they could be liable for common assault. It’s all a giant con.

47699 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nfw, #431 of 1199 🔗

lines in the dirt

🙂 🙂 🙂

47682 OKUK, 7, #432 of 1199 🔗

In the League of Shame I’d put that photo of Boris in the blue face rag in the top ten along with Obama’s deep bow to the Saudi monarch and Nixon shaking hands with Mao, a man responsible for the unnecessary and unjust deaths of tens of millions.

47683 nfw, 4, #433 of 1199 🔗

I trust The Plod, wearing their own real masks bought from China of course, immediately went to Boris’ corner store and arrested those other three in the photo for “killing grandma”.

47685 nfw, replying to nfw, 4, #434 of 1199 🔗

Of course Nicola Sturgeon ( not exactly a Scot’s name is it? according to https://www.houseofnames.com/sturgeon-family-crest The Sturgeon family’s name is derived from the ancient Norman culture that was established in Britain following the Norman Conquest of island in 1066. Their name originated with an early member who was a person who resembles a sturgeon having derived from the Old French word esturgeon, and indicates that the original bearer bore some fanciful resemblance to the Northern European fish of the same name.”) is a nationalist and a socialist. Now where have we seen that combination before?

47688 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to nfw, 2, #435 of 1199 🔗

If she used her head to nod less and think more I am sure the people of Scotland would be better governed.

47710 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to nfw, 1, #436 of 1199 🔗

lol

47762 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to nfw, #437 of 1199 🔗

Many of the mediaeval wars – England vs Scotland, England vs Wales, England vs Ireland – were decided depending upon whose Normans were the best on the day. Can I also point out that the Norman Conquest was of England, though Normans did end up in every corner of the British Isles. And the Kingdom of Sicily for some strange reason.

48332 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, #438 of 1199 🔗

Sicily before England in fact

48528 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to nfw, #439 of 1199 🔗

Germany?

47693 OKUK, 17, #440 of 1199 🔗

Emergency call-out to Toby: please start a Free Citizens Party and scare the bejezus out of the Crap Conservatives so they begin to behave like a sensible government rather than the crazed ape outfit that is currently on offer. Who knows? – perhaps a sensible Free Citizens Party would consign Boris’s Crap Conservatives to oblivion.

47702 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 7, #441 of 1199 🔗

I’ve definitely had enough of this nonsense. The sight of Boris in the blue mask was the final straw. Let’s enourage Toby to stop the rot and start a new party that will defend our freedoms. Can I suggest anyone who agrees copies and pastes the following at the beginning or end of their post:

Come on Toby – stop the madness and start a Free Citizens Party now!

47838 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 1, #442 of 1199 🔗

I think it’s pretty obvious that Toby is too busy with his work and the FSU to start a party. If we want to start a party then we ourselves need to become more organised and all become one so we can more effectively fight this. This is why I’ve bed pushing using a forum rather that comments here to get organised to do this.

47973 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to JohnB, #443 of 1199 🔗

Yes, we have to share the load. I don’t know how he juggles the way it is tbh. He has a lot on his plate.

47704 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 10, #444 of 1199 🔗

Anyone any idea how many tons of face masks are being thrown away after use every day? I saw a headline the other day (I can’t recall where it was now, I should have retained it) about the number being thrown into the sea and the potential danger for marine life (specifically whales).

What an absolute clusterfuck.

DavidC

47707 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to DavidC, 5, #445 of 1199 🔗

I’ve seen plenty abandoned in supermarket car parks and on pavements. Perfect playthings for toddlers…

47723 ▶▶ Rick, replying to DavidC, 13, #446 of 1199 🔗

I work on/in the sea. Loads of them on beaches and floating about. Plastic free and environment stuff long been abandoned by the normally self-righteous. This along with the impending cholera outbreak due to closed toilets.

47757 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Rick, 4, #447 of 1199 🔗

Quite. Noticed (most) toilets were open in the Lake District yesterday and some have reopened in North Wales. I’m lucky, so long as I take care about what goes in, I’m something of a camel. But walking past public toilets for the most part smells almost as bad as waste ground in a Third world country.

47764 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DavidC, 5, #448 of 1199 🔗

Loads of them in my area – encounter them and gloves during my walks and litter picking. Its disgusting.

Someone I know shared this on her Facebook page:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-53287940/coronavirus-the-masks-you-throw-away-could-end-up-killing-a-whale?fbclid=IwAR0PySc5V5etHzMvZAr8BK1b49T22d-0d33w6rxkfqgIFBB4Rwt7OD74qs4

48142 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #449 of 1199 🔗

That’s the one, thanks Bart.

DavidC

48399 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DavidC, #450 of 1199 🔗

You’re welcome.

48184 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #451 of 1199 🔗

So it’ll come to this in some people’s minds now:. Choice between killing your grannie or killing a whale. Jesus, let’s have some discernment and joined-up thinking.

48076 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to DavidC, 1, #452 of 1199 🔗

.. and no hazard waste bins to throw them in; isn’t that interesting?

47709 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 7, #453 of 1199 🔗

I am sure that many people have been driven away from the BBC’s Radio 4-da-Woke and have been seeking refuge in the apolitial world of classical music. Faint hope. On a long car
journey today I discovered that the Stasi-like BBC is closing off all escape routes. There are now enforced Mao-style self-criticism sessions on Rado 3 during what used to be music schedules. During these “discussions” elitist followers of classical music abase themselves and criticise their failure to achieve equality of outcome in all aspects of classical music . Reference was made to how Covid 19 had exposed inequalities
.

47755 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 6, #454 of 1199 🔗

On Classic FM too, I noticed yesterday. News all about Covid, and all BS (had me shouting and having to take extra care with my speed), and had one intriguing ad from the government warning us about misinformation. Non-stop propaganda.

47759 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #455 of 1199 🔗

Try talkRADIO. It’s been a haven for me from the hysteria-mongering of virtually every other radio station.

47784 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kh1485, 1, #456 of 1199 🔗

Thanks :o))

47790 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nick Rose, #457 of 1199 🔗

You’re welcome. Sadly, they do run that gov’t ad you referred to (I heard it for the first time the other day, the one that, from the wording is clearly trying to equate “false information” with the virus). Particularly like James Max, Mike Graham, Ian Collins and Dan Wootton.

47765 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #458 of 1199 🔗

Hence why I’ve been boycotting them, its basically YouTube for me now and my CD of the Ring Cycle.

48530 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, #459 of 1199 🔗

Which orchestra, which conductor?

47805 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nick Rose, #460 of 1199 🔗

Try Radio Swiss Classic, just music with erudite introductions in German plus a playlist on the website.

47862 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #461 of 1199 🔗

Yes I’ve been there before and confirm it’s good. But of course not available on a normal radio. We should all put Internet radio sets onout Santander list.

47786 ▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 2, #462 of 1199 🔗

A few years Back BBC sacked off Mike Harding’s folk night. He knew his stuff, was awesome and had a great following. He covered the tradition of folk music and knew the culture inside and out. BBC cleasned the the established tradition and replaced with an awful woke modern folk programme with faux tradition and rootless radio friendly unit shifters. This had a marked effect on the culture of Folk Music.

Sorry off topic.

47714 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 10, #463 of 1199 🔗

This shopkeeper is surely a reader of Lockdown Sceptics? Wonderful!

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5799786/coronavirus-scotland-glasgow-shop-no-face-masks/

47748 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Gillian, 4, #464 of 1199 🔗

Thanks for posting. Might use this myself!

47855 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to kh1485, 3, #465 of 1199 🔗

I would use a sign that simply says “no masks required, I don’t mind if you don’t mind. It’s your choice.”

47865 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nobody2020, #466 of 1199 🔗

I’ve actually used that line on the swervers and I get greeted with a look of absolute horror …

47875 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #467 of 1199 🔗

Agreed. It’s all about freedom to choose, if they want to waste their money and time on a mask, then they should be free to do so, but nobody should be forced to. And those who are ill and symptomatic should just be staying at home, like I would hope anyone with flu symptoms would do…

47767 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gillian, 3, #468 of 1199 🔗

That’s a great sign and its not surprising. A few years’ ago there was a shop in Glasgow that was robbed and the criminals were wearing niqabs!

47872 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Gillian, 2, #469 of 1199 🔗

Good sign glad to see it, but christ that article is disgusting. ‘shocking sign’, ‘gross and terrifying sign’, Ffs-why are the media so attached to this nonsense mask campaign?

47715 Julian, replying to Julian, 5, #470 of 1199 🔗

Masks

The government’s chances of re-election are largely going to depend on the state of the economy

For as long as the mountain of restrictions are in place, the economy will be hampered

To abolish all of those restrictions and return to normal without admitting it was all a mistake, why wouldn’t the government make masks mandatory everywhere all the time?

It seems like a no brainer. The only question is, how far they will go? Will it be all premises of any kind, indoors and out? Or will it be absolutely everywhere? Either way, if you want to do anything apart from a walk in the park, you’ll be forced to wear a mask.

I suspect the decision has been made. The latest Vodafone ad on TV features random people wearing masks outdoors

If we’re lucky it may get phased out in time for the next election as a goodwill gesture, assuming the pandemic has very obviously burnt itself out

47719 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian, 11, #471 of 1199 🔗

I think you are engaging in a lot of wishful thinking there.

They will not impose masks and then abolish all other restrictions. They will impose masks, impose more masks, impose more restrictions and more lockdown until all small and medium business has been wiped out. They will continue with the terrorising of the population and force medical testing and treatment on people. The masks are just the next stepping stone to tyranny not some sort of path back to freedom.

47766 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #472 of 1199 🔗

Wishful thinking? Well I certainly don’t wish for it.
A path back to freedom? I would not regard it as freedom.
Yes the government wish to perpetuate the state of fear, but if they can do this while minimising damage to the economy they increase their chances of being re-elected.

48137 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian, #473 of 1199 🔗

Wishful thinking? Well I certainly don’t wish for it.

Its sounds like you are saying the government want to make us wear masks so they have an excuse to list all the other restrictions. It sounds like you think the government want to save to economy even if only to save themselves at the next election. You say “If we’re lucky it may get phased out in time for the next election as a goodwill gesture” I refer to all of this as wishful thinking. I don’t mean to say you are wishing for mandatory masks, but that you seem to be hoping they are doing it for a purpose that might be in a round about way of benefit to us.

A path back to freedom? I would not regard it as freedom.

In my opinion we were a long way from freedom even before lockdown, but we were a hell of a lot closer then we are now. If the government started lifting restrictions after imposing one last stupid diktat then we would be heading back in that direction even if we never actually quite got there.

I don’t see any reason to suggest that the government could care less about the economy or re-election.

48146 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian, #474 of 1199 🔗

I don’t think a politicians ‘success’ is directly determined by winning elections but rather by their subservience to certain agendas. If they do the ‘right’ things they will be given help to win elections and when they eventually loose they will be given opportunities and riches such that its not such a bad thing anyway – look at Tony Blair for example. As a result re-election is not such a concern to them.

48075 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Saved To Death, #475 of 1199 🔗

At the moment elections can be suspended – they could just prolong the next election indefinitely on some spurious health grounds…

47725 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Julian, 9, #476 of 1199 🔗

Their strategy – as far as I can see at least – is simple. Convince people that there was a pandemic and that the ‘social measures’ worked. The strategy has worked very well so far, I’d say.

47758 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #477 of 1199 🔗

Indeed- going completely back to normal risks having to answer awkward questions

47867 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, 3, #478 of 1199 🔗

The idea that mandatory masks will save the economy is wrong. They will deepen the damage.

48179 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, #479 of 1199 🔗

You’re assuming there’s going to be a next election

48532 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #480 of 1199 🔗

Are they taking selfies?

47721 A leaf, replying to A leaf, 2, #481 of 1199 🔗

‘Multiple errors in the New York Times article about Sweden’s corona strategy‘ – Good takedown of the misleading New York Times piece headlined: “Sweden has become the world’s cautionary tale.”

In this round up article writer Emanuel Karlsten compares the death rates for per million of sweden and usa and bashes NYT article that they calculated the numbers wrong and to save the swedish model he writes NYT is wrong because usa covid deaths are very very under counted so deaths per million usa and sweden are almost equal, citing
” In the US, there have been early reports of the death toll being up to 50 percent more than has been reported, and that the country has had huge problems differentiating diagnoses of those who died with or from Covid-19.”

Hmmm, i am a true supporter of the swedish model but to save the numbers of swedish model by claiming usa is under reporting the covid deaths is funny.
They are reporting, every and anybody dying of anything as covid if they were only positive even asymptomathic. This is over reporting at its best and will truly compensate the missing under reported cases grossly.
Secondly even if a sweden supporter one must acknowlege to sweden’s fuck up in the care home covid preventation measures and causing mountain load of deaths which then contributed to their 70ish % of covid deaths.

47746 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A leaf, 7, #482 of 1199 🔗

Sweden acknowledge that they lost control of care homes. They are far from alone in that of course, but at least they admit to their mistakes. Unlike some countries I could mention.

47850 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to A leaf, 1, #483 of 1199 🔗

I don’t know why people consider the USA as a country for the purposes of comparison. Each state is effectively a small country and it would be more appropriate to look at it that way.

Even in the UK the Scottish Government trying to compare 5M people to 55M in England is ridiculous. Look at us we’ve virtually eradicated the virus in Scotland whilst seemingly oblivious to the fact the virus is virtually eradicated in vast swathes of England, even London with 9M people.

47950 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #484 of 1199 🔗

Exactly. Although I’d quibble with the word ‘eradicated’ in London, I’d say burned out. Everyone there who was likely to get it has had it by now, and recovered, or died. Herd immunity reached.
Whereas for Scotland and NZ, if normality returns, it might be expected to run through their urban populations just as it did in London. So I wouldn’t say it’s been ‘eradicated’ in Scotland. More like ‘ held at bay’ . If they manage to protect their frail and elderly, they could do a lot better than England though.
I think a lot of the mismanagement stems from having such a London -centric government. England’s towns and villages never needed the measures adopted to prevent viral spread from Heathrow and the Tube.

47727 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 19, #485 of 1199 🔗

From my viewpoint on the ‘Naughty-Step’ coffee shop in North West Essex:

Sadly, mask-wearers appear to be up, though if that’s because it makes them feel ‘safe’ to venture out into the ‘scary’ world (we all know that they do it for *their* benefit not ours), then fine*. However, most of the ones we clocked yesterday looked home-made – either gingham or flowery (ffs!). But boy, it really makes my bloody hackles rise, seeing them in all their moral superiority superciliousness. I think it was Awkward Git yesterday who posted a spot-on breakdown of the types who wear masks and that’s been our experience also.

One of my (many) lockdown-sceptic customers remarked yesterday, that we should ban mask wearers! (Oh, I wish). He regaled his experience of going to a pub in Cambridge for a mate’s birthday and I think root canal work would have been a more enjoyable experience. It was the usual ‘Halt who goes there, gimme me your name, rank, number’ stuff on the door; being yelled at because he tried to get a look at what beers were on tap (how very dare he) and his change being chucked at him in a tupperware box. Note to politicians: PEOPLE DO NOT WANT THIS. If the happy, buzzy and, dare I say, near normal feel of my shop yesterday is anything to go by, people want their old lives back.

As my bloody belter of a Saturday girl (probably not allowed to say that now!) pointed out, as we exchanged side-eyes: “but we’ve all touched their crockery and cutlery and you’ve handled their food …it doesn’t make any sense” Precisely.

It really feels to me as though we are entering a sort of Roundhead vs Cavaliers era at the moment. I just wish we could all get back on the bloody bus; protect the vulnerable and elderly; leave the frit at home and sack the skivers and let those of us who want to … LIVE!

(*My piss-take is reserved solely for the perpetually supercilious, not the genuinely – usually elderly or vulnerable – frightened).

47731 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to kh1485, 11, #486 of 1199 🔗

I think you should rename your shop “The Naughty Step”. Has a great ring about it!

47735 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to CarrieAH, 11, #487 of 1199 🔗

Yes it does!

I think our customers rather enjoy the element of freedom we offer. Meanwhile all the BID converts tie themselves up in tortuous knots with their traffic lights, spacing dots, temperature checks etc. etc.

I did think of ‘The Old Normal’ or, if I were running a pub, ‘The Sceptics’!

47830 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to kh1485, 6, #488 of 1199 🔗

The Old Normal is even better! Puts the message out simply.

47849 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 5, #489 of 1199 🔗

My favourite in our town so far is one of the hairdressers. The sign reads “Welcome back, we’ve missed you” and then you encounter the chain across the doorway and the hairdresser in full plastic gown, visor and mask …

47775 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #490 of 1199 🔗

That should make it easy for me to spot the cafe when I visit!

47750 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 4, #491 of 1199 🔗

I wonder what happened to the 1000s of fabric masks made during lockdown by well meaning needlewomen to donate to the NHS? There’s a mountain of them somewhere!

47769 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluemoon, 2, #492 of 1199 🔗

Probably ended in some landfill now after gathering dust in a warehouse and rendered unusable.

47770 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #493 of 1199 🔗

Perhaps they could be dumped on Boris Johnson’s doorstep. He likes wearing masks!

47774 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 5, #494 of 1199 🔗

That’s a good idea. Create a mountain outside no 10

48073 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #495 of 1199 🔗

Yes, because you’re supposed to change them every few hours (like nappies!!)

48283 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, 1, #496 of 1199 🔗

And wash them at high temperatures so not exactly kind to the environment either.

47804 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #497 of 1199 🔗

probably stored in the large warehouses they built months ago at great expense and never used .. I think they were called Nightingale wards 🙂

48284 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 1, #498 of 1199 🔗

They became depots instead 😉

48047 ▶▶ Rick, replying to kh1485, 4, #499 of 1199 🔗

Anyone who owns a cafe or pub business should insist in either full hazmat suit including forced air breathing hood or fuck all. Big sign stating useless and potentially harmful muzzles, so come in with either all the right gear or non at all. Having pointless PPE is more hazardous than none at all easy for a good risk assessment.

48136 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Rick, 2, #500 of 1199 🔗

At the moment I want a big sign banning effing hand sanitiser gel. I wonder what the hell this stuff does to your lungs. I’d rather have a load of smokers in!

47739 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #501 of 1199 🔗

Toby: had a flick through the comments on your Telegraph article. One from Jullianne Roberts caught my eye, this paragraph in particular:

“Young implies that the government could have refused to lockdown like the Swedes, but it could not. Teachers were already refusing to go into school, and Macron was threatening a total embargo on people and goods into and out of the UK if the Brits did not impose a lockdown (the EU was determined the big boys here would all go down together on this issue- no significant dissenters to prove everyone else wrong, and worse still, steal a march on the rest of them.)”

I know Micron threatened a ban on UK travellers, is it true that he threatened an economic embargo too? If that is true, I’m afraid that is a casus belli as far as I’m concerned.

Perhaps time to destroy that Channel Tunnel?

47791 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Nick Rose, 15, #502 of 1199 🔗

That is a good point. I tend to concede to the argument that the government’s hand was effectively forced on 23rd March – MSM screaming for a lockdown, the mob screaming on social media, scary scenes of overloaded hospitals in Italy, and teachers refusing to go to school and Macron throwing his weight around as you say. I still think going into lockdown was absolutely the wrong decision and I thought that right from the very start, on 23rd March, but given the situation and that we knew less about the virus than we do now, it was understandable why the government chose to go into lockdown.

However, it’s the fact that 4 months later, when we have so much more data pointing to the virus being less virulent than originally thought and the apocalyptic predictions of 500k dead have not materialised, that the government has still not admitted that it made a mistake in imposing the lockdown. That’s the nub of the issue. It’s all well and good making a mistaken policy decision but it’s the fact that they now cannot admit that mistake and are actually doubling down on it, despite the fact that we can see the ruinous consequences of that decision unfolding all around us – e.g. massive job losses, cancelled treatments, a mysterious spike in excess deaths not attributed to Covid, etc.

47821 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Poppy, 6, #503 of 1199 🔗

This isn’t a criticism of what you’re saying, which I tend to agree with. However, the thing is that Johnson said on 3.3 that the disease was mild for most people and most will fully recover and Whitty said more or less the same on 11.5. So, between those two dates you’d have thought they’d know more about the virus, and they do, yet they still say it’s mild and that most people, even those in the highest risk groups, will recover. In other words, what they knew before lockdown and what they know now hasn’t changed, for most people it’s a mild disease and it doesn’t affect them, which all the numbers seem to indicate.

47885 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Moomin, 5, #504 of 1199 🔗

Yes I agree with you as well. This is why I have always been a lockdown sceptic because the data was always there but I guess what I meant was that there is now more of the SAME data, showing that it’s mostly mild, which should be even more convincing. But I suppose that lends weight to the argument that the lockdown was a political decision.

47828 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Poppy, 5, #505 of 1199 🔗

And they keep on doubling down on that original “three weeks”.

47829 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Poppy, 5, #506 of 1199 🔗

How valid was the idea we didn’t know much coronavirus as a justification for lockdown. I saw an article on the BBC website dated the 14th of March saying 8 out of 10 people will only get mild symptoms. I understand that on the 19th March the government declared coronavirus as non lethal. To the best of my knowledge the government never used lack of knowledge about coronavirus as a justification for lockdown.

Four months later with restrictions still in place there is a massive elephant in the room lockdown supporters need to answer. The purpose of quarantine is to isolate sick people until their symptoms have cleared. The entire population was placed in quarantine for months with only slow lifting of restrictions eg shops in England couldn’t open until the 15th of June. If the population was placed in quarantine for long periods, you would expect the disease would have cleared from their bodies by now. Despite this we are told there is a still a danger from coronavirus and restrictions must be stay in place. How do you explain this if lockdowns are so effective?

47845 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to ianric, 4, #507 of 1199 🔗

The problem we have is that the UK death toll is 50-60k whereas some countries have had a few hundred.

This is why the goalposts have changed. It’s no longer relevant what the characteristics of the virus are, it could have an IFR of the cold and it wouldn’t make a difference now.

The health advisors will be saying we could have had no deaths and will be pushing for zero deaths moving foward.

Logically if we knew the IFR was 0.5% (for arguments sake) and shielding care homes would result in half the death toll we have (bringing it down to below the toll of seasonal flu) then there is no country on earth that would have shut down their economies let alone be calling for eradication of the virus.

Unfortunately logic seems to have been sanitized from existence.

47896 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nobody2020, #508 of 1199 🔗

On the observation that some countries have had few deaths (per 100k population), someone else observed that they were those with a much younger population profile. I expect those like the UK, with comparatively high death rates, are developed countries with sophisticated health and social care, managing in normal circumstances to keep the very elderly and ‘frail’, i.e.with diabetes, organ transplants, cancer treatments etc, alive and functioning in their midst.

48576 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Nobody2020, #509 of 1199 🔗

But we all know the figures are incorrect. We just need to prove it

47895 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to ianric, 4, #510 of 1199 🔗

I agree with you that there was never a lack of knowledge, hence why I have been a lockdown sceptic from the very beginning, but given the proliferation of ‘health and safety culture’ and the ‘precautionary principle’, I wouldn’t be surprised if the government locked down ‘just to be on the safe side’ and ‘just to get a bit more data’. As I said in my reply to Kevin above, we have more data, but it’s more of the SAME data we had in March, which should convince anyone who reads it that the virus is mild for the vast, vast majority of people who get it.

There is indeed an elephant in the room but as I said, I think it all stems from the culture of the precautionary principle and how the government is now seen as solely responsible for keeping everyone ‘safe’, at the expense of practically everything else in life. So no one is allowed to get infected, let alone die. No one at all.

But the fact that everything seems so conflicting, e.g. scientific advice back in early March – just goes to show that the lockdown was an enormous mistake that has caused more damage than it has prevented. The fact that everything and all the regulations are so conflicting and arbitrary should wake the public up to the fact that the ‘science’ isn’t being followed at all.

48120 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Poppy, #511 of 1199 🔗

Talking great sense as usual Poppy.

48202 ▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Poppy, 3, #512 of 1199 🔗

I wonder how would people feel if lockdown was applied in other situations where draconian measures are introduced which cause enormous damage but the problem remains. Let’s say the government introduces a law saying that all buses must stop operating and go to garages for repairs as there is a possibility buses have dangerous faults. The buses spend months in garages. The unavailability of buses causes enormous problems for people dependent on buses. Large numbers of people being unable to travel causes economic damage and bus company staff face job cuts. When the buses finally come out of garages the government says the buses may still have faults and there limits how often buses can travel, how fast they can travel and how far they can travel. The government says buses can be recalled to go back to garages at any time. Would people accept this.

48068 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ianric, 2, #513 of 1199 🔗

Sweden did not lock down and their deaths are not worse than the UK’s..

48019 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Poppy, 3, #514 of 1199 🔗

Ah, but you are not seeing the truth Poppy, the only reason we don’t have 500k dead is the decisive and selfless action from our glorious leaders and NHS dancers, heroes.
That is what the history books and school curricula will tell you anyhow.

48066 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, #515 of 1199 🔗

Yes, but we were sold the lockdown on the basis of it being to flatten the curve and only being for 3 weeks – and yet over 3 months later, there are still many restrictions..

48123 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Carrie, 1, #516 of 1199 🔗

It was a lie…and I suspected so at the time.

47776 Matthew Day, replying to Matthew Day, 6, #517 of 1199 🔗

If Masks do become compulsory in shops I can see this backfiring spectacularly and causing yet more damage to the retail sector. He seems to think that fear of the virus is the only reason keeping people away from retail. Whereas he current rules regarding shops are also encouraging people to avoid them with all the other rigmarole required to enter them. Maybe its time for an organized boycott to get the retail sector onside against the imposition of this rule. if this is implemented if people were encouraged to shop online and not use brick and mortar establishments as much as possible for all expect essentials this might be enough to panic Johnson giving how much he was startled into reopening hospitality. Support could also be given to local business who do online orders or operate click and collect so you could collect the item from the door without entering and having to wear a mask.

48062 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Matthew Day, 3, #518 of 1199 🔗

Simon Dolan is quoting Gove saying masks will not be mandatory, but in the comments people are saying Boris’s friends in retail will do the job for him and decide to refuse entry to the unmasked.. But I’m thinking if owners of smaller shops do not mandate masks, then they will get more custom (and maybe more than they would otherwise have got). But if it is up to shops whether people are masked, then surely it will also be up to hairdressers etc to make their own decisions?

49864 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Carrie, #519 of 1199 🔗

They make up laws then pass it down the chain of command for the people at street level to do the dirty work and enforce them. If you refuse to cooperate, you will be fined a sum of money or have your business shut down.

48407 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Matthew Day, #520 of 1199 🔗

Was in Richmond today and while the cafes and ice cream parlours were doing a fairly good trade but the clothes shops were pretty much deserted. One even had the gall to put a sign outside that said “no mask no entry” and surprise, surprise – no customers!

49865 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, #521 of 1199 🔗

Good. I hope they go belly up. Glug! Glug!

49857 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Matthew Day, #522 of 1199 🔗

Calling up an order and collecting the goods at the door was how my tobacconist stayed in business after the Quebec governmnet declared it non-essential.

47777 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #523 of 1199 🔗

The amateurish scientific trials showing that masks work are all ignoring math, the size of the virus and the ridiculously low probabilities that they might ever prevent an infection, reality, that the Masks aren’t worn as perfectly as in these trials most of the time, and the negative health side effects of wearing them.
The only reason to impose them in general is fascist herd control, obedience and oppression.
An additional reason for Johnson and his rabid Brexiteer allies is the same as for the ridiculous quarantine: to deliberately damage the economy as much as they can get away with this year, so that it can rebound more, crediting their no deal Brexit for it, next year.
Crimes against the people.

48126 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Jay Berger, #524 of 1199 🔗

Johnson is not a brexiteer…he just thought that was the way to No 10….he was right but what a f___ up he has made of it once he was there!

47779 Ethelred the Unready, 2, #525 of 1199 🔗

“Muzzled sheepdog looks bewildered. Where’s his owner gone?”

”Don’t worry boy, he’s on his way back from Barnard Castle, won’t be long”

47788 Ned of the Hills, #526 of 1199 🔗

I would have liked to have heard what Owen Young had to say had to say on Sky News.

47789 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 15, #527 of 1199 🔗

My early morning walk today: what a depressing experience.

Rubbish everywhere; gull breeding season in full swing so noise ,mess and general mayhem prevail.

Another shop has closed and those that are still in business now have bossy mask notices posted outside.

A walk along the largely deserted sea front raised my flagging spirits : fresh air, sunny and plenty of wading birds and terns to watch, along with the resident heron and some eiders.

On the way home, I exchanged greetings with a pleasant lady who was shocked when I told her about tonight’s planned Sturgeon clap fest.

She agreed that masks were a waste of time, and told me that bus journeys are awful; masks are obligatory and cause great discomfort.

She also remarked on the disappearance of normal sociability: people not making eye contact; no casual conversations at bus stops or in shops and stations : a pervasive air of suspicion and avoidance.

And masks and gloves discarded all over the place;so much for plastic reduction.

She knows people like us who object but are frightened to speak out.

What an awful and thoroughly unnecessary state of affairs; all because of our blundering ,arrogant politicians and their chosen ‘experts’ and ‘the science’.

I fear that I shall only be welcome in 2 shops now, badge or no badge.

The lady I spoke to confirmed that she is only shopping when necessary and I’ve just done an online order; my second.

How much more economic and social illiteracy will we have to endure?

Finally, a tip for relief of anxiety and insomnia : topical application of magnesium helps; either as lotion or spray.

Keeps me ticking over, more or less, so worth a try for all who are suffering.

47801 ▶▶ mjr, replying to wendyk, 10, #528 of 1199 🔗

on a more uplifting note. went for my usual morning walk round town park (not Scotland!!) . Beautiful day. Lakes like glass. Anglers out in force. Fed the swans.. Saw the heron. First time ever saw Kingfisher and a hawk (maybe a Buzzard). Joggers and dog walkers. no masks, no swerving, everyone says hello. Then to mini mart for newspapers. Again no masks. no gloves, everyone happy .
It was almost as if the world was normal. Shame our government doesnt think so

47802 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to mjr, 3, #529 of 1199 🔗

Lucky you! All those birds.

47818 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, 3, #530 of 1199 🔗

The zip and dart of a Kingfisher blue arrow is quiet something. Wonderful, how can your day get better…!

47822 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 4, #531 of 1199 🔗

A kingfisher? Fantastic! The sight of them even if its just a bright blue arrow is a thing of beauty and a reminder that nature marches to the beat of its own drum and is not constrained by the power of man made law and the diktats of parliaments.

48150 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, #532 of 1199 🔗

kingfisher was across the lake.. just saw a flash of blue and orange as it changed position. It is so quiet at 6 am (even quieter when angling was banned) I have watched the ducks and coots grow up. Coots are fascinating and very tame. Also two lakes each have a resident swan. These will come when i whistle . The morning walk is all that has kept me sane over the last few months

47831 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #533 of 1199 🔗

WendyK, this has made me so bloody angry on your behalf. Anger that is compounded by loads of speed limit signs here and, what’s this, a new ‘green’ sign displayed on the High Street, about being greener and saving the environment (this is clearly the agenda).

I like nature and birds as much as the next person, apart from when the little bastards wake me up at 4 in the morning, but trashing the economy and demonising car users/meat eaters and proper life-livers isn’t the way to go about saving it.

47866 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 2, #534 of 1199 🔗

Quite agree kh; and of course, the pests like the f..ing gulls and pigeons are breeding and making the most of the fly tipping which is proliferating : I reported 2 eyesores a few days ago and both were dealt with, but the general environment here is becoming shabbier and shabbier.

And what can be pleasurable about shopping when one is confronted by the lists of regulations?

47792 Julian, replying to Julian, 6, #535 of 1199 🔗

I see Trump has appeared in public for the first time wearing a mask
He has been a disappointment, and my expectations were low

47807 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Julian, 3, #536 of 1199 🔗

It’s funny. Boris looks embarrassed (and so he should be) in his mask — just plain foolish, whereas the sort Donald Trump has been shown wearing says, “I’m serious about this, so don’t mess with me.”

47815 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Hoppity, #537 of 1199 🔗

Indeed, though he is not a serious person

47833 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, 1, #538 of 1199 🔗

Trump changes with the wind. Remember he’s come from a TV background where popularity and ratings matter. His Twitter accounts shows that he models himself on a social influencer.

48057 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #539 of 1199 🔗

Apparently Trump was visiting wounded soldiers at a medical facilty and wore one out of respect for the fear of the soldiers.

48577 ▶▶ Nel, replying to Julian, #540 of 1199 🔗

He was visiting military in hospital

47794 Brian, replying to Brian, 12, #541 of 1199 🔗

I have my face covering with me at all times. I all ways have since I was a little boy. My mum supplied me with a clean face covering for me to take with me at all times. I continued with this practice as a become an adult. Now nearly 68 I still continue the practice. Should I cough or sneeze or have a runny nose , I just reach for my face covering. As Tony Hancock sang the slogan ‘coughs and sneezes spread disease trap your germs in a handkerchief’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmBivUlPXE&t=5s
WHO saying asymptomatic people will not spread illness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQTBlbx1Xjs&feature=emb_title
They tried to backtrack on this
Maria Van Kerkhove says she accepts models show up to 40% of infections come from asymptomatic people. I guess they prefer the models to the tests.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid-19-transmitted
Current evidence suggests that COVID-19 spreads between people through direct, indirect (through contaminated objects or surfaces), or close contact with infected people via mouth and nose secretions. These include saliva, respiratory secretions or secretion droplets. These are released from the mouth or nose when an infected person coughs, sneezes, speaks or sings, for example. People who are in close contact (within 1 metre) with an infected person can catch COVID-19 when those infectious droplets get into their mouth, nose or eyes.”

But how are asymptomatic people supposed to spread coronavirus. If they do not cough or sneeze or have a runny nose.
Was this not the reason for lockdown healthy infected people would kill there granny.
Is this not the scare about cases. The more infected the greater the dander even if they have no symptoms.
I prefer my temporary face covering . If they become compulsory in shops then I shall resist the best I can. I will offer my temporary face covering as an alternative. If not acceptable will make excuse , breathing , phobia .

47823 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Brian, 5, #542 of 1199 🔗

“Maria Van Kerkhove says she accepts models show up to 40% of infections come from asymptomatic people.”

I too accept that models can show all sorts of things, from millions of dead from coronavirus to runaway greenhouse global warming.

Doesn’t mean I accept the models are accurate though.

47826 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Brian, 1, #543 of 1199 🔗

If they knew how it was spread they wouldn’t be using models to guess at it. All this suggests is that they’ve looked at the data and tried to work out a best fit guess (that’s what it is).

If you look at the data and it looks like the spread of infection is far from even then there are 2 reasonable conclusions:

  1. Asymptomatic carriers and superspreaders
  2. Some inherent immunity/resistance

They’ve decided that option 1 is the most likely because 2 is unproven even though option 2 actually makes the most sense.

47795 Ed Turnbull, 1, #544 of 1199 🔗

Ah, GruntM has arrived. Bearing, as usual, no actual arguments or engagement with the points being discussed, only crude ad hominem attacks in coarse language. As I’ve said before I don’t normally stoop to the old ad hom, but in your case Grunt I’ll always make an exception, as – being the denizen of the lower end of the bell curve that you so obviously are – it seems to be the only language you understand. Furthermore my ad homs are a tad more elegant that your approach of calling someone a ‘c*nt’. Chin chin.

47796 Jay Berger, 1, #545 of 1199 🔗

Sweden is the only country that has treated and still treat its citizens as responsible adults and with respect rather than oppression.
That alone answers the question of whether their approach was and is correct.

As Tegnell has said: What difference would a lockdown have made on care home deaths?! Zero.

Sweden was and is thinking about the poor quality of the available science:
e. g. the PCR Tests are seriously flawed, social distancing is based upon a high school trial of a 14 year old, there is zero evidence for school closures necessity or effects and the ones for masks are for the birds, and sheep.

They were and are also the only country thinking and caring about their young and about the millions of people in the 3rd world which our lockdowns will have killed in the end!

If everyone had responded like Sweden, the Corona death rates would probably be the same, if not lower in many cases, and there would be no economic and financial devastation and none of the other collateral damages like the now expected 35. 000 additional cancer deaths in the UK alone.

Their economy has suffered because of the lockdowns around them, but it is still holding up much better and less costly to repair than all others.
If their GDP falls by 7% as some expect, this will amount to a contraction of 16% of the private sector with the planned government spending increase of 9% of GDP.
Countries like Germany who are expected to contract by 7%, will have seen a collapse of private sector GDP of 23% at least at their planned and incorporated government spending increases of 16% of GDP.
THOSE are the numbers that display the true extent of the financial damage of our lockdowns, not headline GDP numbers.

And that is before the £50!billion cost for a vaccine which the government allegedly has committed to paying at a dosage rate cost of £650.
For a vaccine that is rushed in any cases, like the flu vaccines doubtful to be effective, lowering immunity to upcoming viruses and possibly needing to be repeated annually or even more often and for all of the upcoming viruses again as well.
And if it’s a rDNA vaccine, its longterm effects on the vaccinated person’s own DNA and what that could result in is a huge wildcard.
So huge, that they are often not even tested on animals and test persons are advised to refrain from engaging in reproductive activities.
How comforting, especially for parents soon having to decide whether they want their children to get a shot.

And with herd immunity reached at 15-20% already, as currently found out, those vaccines and their financial and ethical dilemmas would have been entirely unnecessary anyway.

47797 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #546 of 1199 🔗

Imerial college vaccine trial update. Prof Shattock Skynews Sophy Ridge
Prof Shattock’s points:

15 people (UK) have had the experimental juice injected. Soon “200-300” people will have.

Bexause covid 19 has dropped in uk it is very hard to test effectively in uk. And so they are going to move to S America or Africa.

Vaccine might be declared found by early next year after which there will be a big gap of supply lead time.

GAVI SEPI WHO all needed in the effort to juice up the entire world. Billions.

He thinks local lockdowns will be with us for a long time.

He also “isn’t the right person to ask about mandatory masks” but never the less goes on to say yes clearly they are of some help in close spaces.

47803 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Basics, #547 of 1199 🔗

Not certain, but I think ‘the Oxford vaccine’ (Astra Zeneca) is already being trialled in Brazil and South Africa. ‘Volunteers’.

47809 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #550 of 1199 🔗

On the point about moving the trials to S America or Africa.
The UK covid rate is so low they cannot trial their vaccine because none of the, count them, 15 people are likely to encounter covid to see if it works. None of the 200-300 (count them also) are likely to encounter Covid either.

The claim has been BAME groups are more likely to contract covid. Africa seems to have done the same as other continents, with individual countries fairing much better than, say, British nations.

200-300 people. What an absolute piss poor figure to use by a proffessor. Any other line of work 200-300 is a sign no one really gives two hoots about the process. In academia it appears 200-300 is all the public deserve.

Professor Shattock I say from your attitude and interview you are a danger to my health and I will not ever be administering your ‘product’ into my body.

47798 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #551 of 1199 🔗

This article is a reminder of what we are up against:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/11/rumours-and-threats-what-happened-when-covid-19-shut-our-pubs

You would think that the owners of a ‘vaping bar’ might have a balanced attitude towards Covid, just as they clearly do towards vaping. But no, they are fully bought into the Covid thing, and don’t complain when a person without symptoms tests positive for C19. They deep clean their own premises and even do all the ‘tracing’ themselves out of a sense of duty.

However, this doesn’t stop the town getting out its pitchforks, spreading rumours about the infected person, etc. Clearly the residents think that Burnham is Covid-free and that the infected one should be cast out. There is no notion whatsoever that we’ve all been exposed to it already, and already have some resistance or immunity. There is also no sense of people shrugging their shoulders and thinking “If I get it, I get it”; that life isn’t worth living unless we can collectively do that (which is what I believe).

47940 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #552 of 1199 🔗

Burnham seems to have its fair share of people without opposing thumbs …

47799 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #553 of 1199 🔗

Football has been going on for a few weeks now, well longer than the coronavirus incubation period.

To my misfortune I caught the end of the local news the other evening and saw the sports report – lots of spitting when running round and then cuddling and hugging in a group hug each time a goal was scored so my question is:

why are the football players not all dropping of coronavirus with teams decimated?

47854 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #554 of 1199 🔗

I’m delighted theyve not been cos I stupidly thought the powers that be could use it to highlight how we can all go back to normal.

Stupid me. If I recall, there was a bunch of hysterical reporting, and some dumbass players, claiming they shouldn’t be restarting and it’s a disgrace etc – those same commentators have failed to return to the topic and hold their hands up, of course, ditto re: the busy parks, beaches and protests. Instead of accepting the reality, they’ve moved onto campaigning for masks instead. Bunch of twats.

48042 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #555 of 1199 🔗

Another great question to ask pro-lockdown, ‘we’re all going to die’ types!!

47819 Ryan, replying to Ryan, 33, #556 of 1199 🔗

Two Bars Two Experiences.

Just to add to peoples comments and observations about pubs.

First one, noticed it was open on the way back from hardware store with #2 son. Been waiting for this to open as it’s the best pint of Guinness in West London. Sign on door suggesting social distancing in place. Walk straight in, straight up to the bar. No other signs, no one-way system, no masks, no gloves, no screens. Nowt. A bottle of hand gel on the counter. Two people behind the bar with no masks. Order my drinks, pay by card, wait for it to settle as I lean on the bar. Barman slides a book along the bar to me and suggests I may want to write my name and contact details. I provide false details but he doesn’t even bother to look I’ve written anything. I notice other people open it and close it without even writing anything. Get my pint and go and stand outside in the sun with my son. Lovely. Went for another one and all was perfectly normal. In fact nicer than normal as the bar was smelling of fresh paint and a lovely French polished bar surface. Owners had taken the down time to do the place up. I’ll be back several times next week.

Second one, that night with the wife. Large Fullers establishment. Signs galore on the way in. Rope across the door, desk with two masked staff inquiring if we’d booked. No, but there may be room. Names please. False names given. Please use the hand gel. No, my hands are clean. You need to use the hand gel. Er, no I don’t. By now the wife is not happy with me. I explain my hands are clean, I’ve just left the house and I don’t want to use their gel. They look at each other and one goes to mutter to another masked staff member behind the bar. They come back and tell me I need to use the gel. I suggest in that case if I need to use the gel they need to show me their GDPR policy as regards collecting names and contacts. Met with blank looks and she goes to mutter with the other bar staff. Another muzzled staff member comes over and asks what I want. I say I’d like two glasses of Rioja. Doesn’t go down well. I ask for the GDPR policy again. By this time the wife has left in embarrassment. Muzzled woman leaves to get the GDPR policy who is actually the 6 foot 2 Duty Manager. I introduce myself but he refuses to give his name. He suggests we go outside to discuss this. I agree. I suggest this entire scenario is ludicrous. He suggests we are in the middle of a pandemic. I suggest we are at the end of a complete over reaction to a virus which peaked in March. He stares blankly at me. He suggests I need to use their gel and provide names to enter. I suggest I won’t. He suggests maybe that is not the pub for me. I wholeheartedly agree with him.

Wife and I buy wine from shop and go home and drink it on the balcony.

Wife really not happy with me.

Letters and emails to Fullers composed.

47827 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ryan, 9, #557 of 1199 🔗

On the bright side, you witnessed the ‘open and close’ of fellow skeptics using a sign in book – they are out there!

Thanks for writing, I like it especially when people get to suggesting to one another.

47846 ▶▶▶ Ryan, replying to Basics, 7, #558 of 1199 🔗

Sanity does exist out there. It’s all around you if you look. If there is hope it lies in the Proles. Orwell. 1984. We are all Proles now.

47892 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Ryan, 1, #559 of 1199 🔗

Yeah, but the Proles ‘loved Big Brother’.

48195 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella, 1, #560 of 1199 🔗

Ni, they just didn’t think about the setup at all. That’s why no rebellion was possible: the notionally free( the Proles) ‘had no intellect’ and no impulse to rebel. All Party members were brainwashed.
Our challenge is to be Proles with intellect, or Party members with unwashed brains.

47837 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Ryan, 13, #561 of 1199 🔗

Having been in a few pubs since last week, I’ve seen plenty of scepticism about. The thing about the books for keeping customer details is the pen provided by the pub. WHAT ABOUT THE PEN?

It’s all too absurd for my little head to take.

47841 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #562 of 1199 🔗

Always prominently finger or adjust your face nap before using the pen. Help boost herd immunity!

48040 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #563 of 1199 🔗

I’d be asking the staff how often the pen gets disinfected – let’s create another annoying job for them to do, because it might lead to them removing the pen. If people can’t see a pen they won’t write in the book. But if you have to ask for a pen, ask to see it sanitised.. Let’s be as obstreperous as possible 🙂

47888 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Ryan, 10, #564 of 1199 🔗

When I went to one of my local hostelries last week, the answer to my question of why more draconian measures now than there were the day before lockdown (actually there weren’t any measures, just wash your hands) I was told because the virus was far more dangerous now than it was then. Duh. Which is why they are opening the bars. You can’t argue with stupid. Needless to say I didn’t go in. (Still haven’t since.) .

47824 Alec in France, replying to Alec in France, 12, #565 of 1199 🔗

Will masks make it worse?

If all the blurb about handwashing is right, the virus is mainly spread by contagion rather than by aerosols.
Muzzle wearers, particularly long-suffering shop staff – but soon all their customers- frequently touch and/or adjust their face naps to ease the inevitable discomfort.
If they are infected (unlikely but, if not, what’s the expletive deleted point of muzzling?) the virus will transfer from their fingers to anything they touch – products, payment cards, door handles…
Therefore: More masks = more infections.
Here in SW France muzzle wearing appears to be on the decline.
In our local supermarket down to around 30% last week, from maybe 50% a couple of weeks ago.
Few in evidence on the streets of our market town but still a few paranoiacs, mainly but not all elderly, wearing them in rural areas. I give them a wide berth and a sympathetic ‘poor you’ smile.

47840 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Alec in France, 12, #566 of 1199 🔗

The waiters who were serving us yesterday kept touching their faces and adjusting their muzzles because they were clearly having trouble breathing. Ditto people I’ve seen in the underground and hairdressers, I still remember one poor woman holding out the muzzle away from her face to get some oxygen into her system.

Don’t these establishments realise that they could be liable if a customer becomes ill or passes out while in their premises because of the muzzles?

47879 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #567 of 1199 🔗

You need a fair and impartial judicial system before those establishments need worry about liability. Vaccine manufacturers are immune from liability, not a great problem to widen the list to include those ‘promoting our health’.in other ways.

48115 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bella, #568 of 1199 🔗

Vaccine manufacturers aren’t immune from liability in the EU:
https://law.emory.edu/elj/content/volume-67/issue-3/articles/liability-vaccine-injury-united-european-world.html
Although of course now we’ve exited, no doubt US pharma will want us to ape the US immunity as the price of a trade deal.

47889 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Alec in France, 4, #569 of 1199 🔗

Exactly. Previously only symptomatic cases were contagious, and that contagiousness is limited because coughing in public has a similar effect to shouting about Ali’s snack bar. Now those (one in >4000) with the virus and without symptoms can spread it around via constant touching of their saliva-drenched muzzle. Critical thinking is rarer than the virus.

47931 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Alec in France, 5, #570 of 1199 🔗

I would say 90% of people I see wearing a mask touch or adjust them at some point, which immediately renders them at best ineffective, and at worst dangerous, for the reasons you give.

47825 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 24, #571 of 1199 🔗

If our great leader wants us to return to normal he’s going about it in a strange fashion. I, like many other people I speak to, are avoiding businesses that are going over the top with their Covid approach. Walk away folks and shop, drink and eat elsewhere, the message will hit home soon. A tenner off a crap meal will never get the high street back on its feet, scrap all social distance guidance and allow ‘normal’ to resume and people will flood into town centres. It’s almost criminal that we’ve brought the economy to its knees and yet we’re still depending on herd immunity to see the virus off, you couldn’t make it up. Anybody want to take a bet that the public inquiry takes at least 5 years to report.

47834 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mike Collins, 12, #572 of 1199 🔗

If the inquiry goes anything like Simon Dolan’s judicial review, I’m not holding my breath on the outcome.

We need a govt scalp post haste. This is all becoming a little too intolerable.

47836 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mike Collins, 12, #573 of 1199 🔗

Well said. They will try to frustrate any inquiry that will implicate them for their incompetence and refusal to admit their shortcomings.

We must not allow that. However they should be reminded that if they escape their comeuppance now, they will get it in the next life and there is a special place in Hell waiting for them

47847 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #574 of 1199 🔗

Hot tip: buy shares in whitewash producers!

47929 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Alec in France, 3, #575 of 1199 🔗

We’re not allowed to use the word “whitewash” here any more.

47975 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #576 of 1199 🔗

Mea culpa. What’s the PC (newspeak) alternative?
‘Distemper’ just doesn’t cut the mustard…

48113 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Alec in France, #577 of 1199 🔗

No idea…

47874 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Mike Collins, 12, #578 of 1199 🔗

In the short term getting the economy back off its knees is not the aim. The aim is to subjugate us and when that subjugation is complete and we are grateful for the scraps they throw us then they can revert to a form of slave employment. At this stage of the ‘outbreak’ (i refuse to call it an epidemic) no-one can rationalise the insidious support of the universal wearing of masks, yet it is gaining alarming momentum and the imagery is shoved down our throats every minute. (See above). Those who are still putting this down to gross incompetence are way, way off the mark. And once a population’s subjugated is complete (see 1984) there is no potential for an uprising against the theft of our freedoms we once took for granted. Indeed, most people have willingly relinquished their freedoms for alleged ‘safety’ so the subjugation is already half way there. The last thing the powers that be (and I don’t pretend to know who exactly they are) want is a robust economy. A robust economy signals freedom and that is not ‘their’ raison d’etre. Complete and utter social control (so far by stealth) is nearer the mark. . .

47949 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Bella, 1, #579 of 1199 🔗

61% of people polled vote for serfdom. I just made that up but it’s nearly true.

48018 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 8, #580 of 1199 🔗

I think you’re right Bella.

What is getting me really angry about this (don’t be fooled by the levity of some of my posts, as what underpins the piss-taking is a visceral rage I don’t think I have ever felt before) is the collective shrugging of the shoulders – “well, what can you do?” I tell you what you can bloody do, you muppets, you can bloody rise up against it. But they don’t.

The only thing exercising some visitors to my shop is when I will be resuming my full menu. Oh, and how lovely the weather is – something I cannot enjoy because a) I am at work and b) because of the current shit-storm (s’cuse language, just very, very angry right now!)

NB: Got a family in right now who wanted to sit at separate tables to “social distance”. They are clearly two generations of the same family … words fail me …

48020 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mike Collins, 4, #581 of 1199 🔗

I feel they may well just be *pretending* they want things to go back to normal.. According to UK column the aim is to re-purpose society, for schools never to re-open, for people to work from home, for long- distance travel to pretty much cease (the whole green agenda). But they cannot yet be too open about that, so they are taking a circular route at the moment, by just pretending to want people to go back to work, and for things to be ‘normal’, whilst at the same time making it as unappealing and difficult as possible.

47832 FiFiTrixabelle, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 27, #582 of 1199 🔗

In the past week, two things have happened to me that have again highlighted the awful impact of this prolonged lockdown.
First, my 88 mother-in-law has been taken into hospital. In severe pain and unable to put weight on her legs. Thankfully there is nothing ‘sinister’ underlying, but the biggest issue? Muscle wastage. After 14 weeks of not being out of the house and too scared to walk any further than the 10 metres to the end of her garden once a day, she has effectively seized up. At least two weeks in hospital while they give her physio etc., and she gains the confidence to get back home.
Secondly (and I posted this in a thread earlier) I met a pathologist friend yesterday who told me (unprompted) that she was seeing things she never thought she would see coming into the lab. Horrific cases of well advanced cancers that have gone well beyond anything she would normally see.
Our initial mantra was to ‘save the NHS’. The cost to the NHS of this backlog and knock on effect to human health is immense. The human cost and lives lost unimaginable; how many elderly people are like my mother-in-law? Where will we ever see the stats for this? Nowhere. We will keep seeing the number of new cases of corona every day though…a whopping 7 yesterday in Scotland.

47842 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 16, #583 of 1199 🔗

It’s appalling. Will those responsible ever see justice visited on them?

48192 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ryan, #584 of 1199 🔗

YES. YES. YES.

47852 ▶▶ Basics, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 11, #585 of 1199 🔗

I have been helping a person of a similar age. As you say the restriction on mobility, that singular element, has had a profound effect. Currently trying to help by encouraging outings to the post box or to put the rubbish out.

47927 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 10, #586 of 1199 🔗

The very people they were supposedly trying to “save” have been damaged the most. It’s incredible.

48017 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 6, #587 of 1199 🔗

It’s outrageous.. A friend of my mum found out the other day she has pancreatic cancer, she has been suffering for ages and been constantly ‘fobbed off’ by both her GP (offered antibiotics!) and another specialised nurse (she has diabetes). Eventually she went to A&E, which led to the diagnosis..They were all too laid back about it and now she has to *wait* for an appointment to find out what treatment (if any..) they will offer her.

48041 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Carrie, 1, #588 of 1199 🔗

Oh yes… the GP “fob off” and plead ignorance. Pass word along… report them to the GMC!

48288 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 1, #589 of 1199 🔗

Most odd that they don’t care about the group that we were constantly told needed to be protected. This is getting beyond a joke now.

47835 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 9, #590 of 1199 🔗

I’m reminded of that line in the musical Les Miserable

Madame Thenardier:(to a male customer) ” I used to dream that I would meet a prince, but God Almighty, have you seen what’s happened since

Some of us thought we were getting Churchill, we actually got Billy Bunter in a face nappy

Oh, how life disappoints

47851 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Cecil B, 4, #591 of 1199 🔗

And look what happens at the end: Thénardier moves to America, with his daughter Azelma: where he becomes a slave trader!

47856 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Alec in France, #592 of 1199 🔗

How did Madame move with ‘ his’ daughter? Was transgender surgery available in France at that time?

47860 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Cecil B, #593 of 1199 🔗

Not Madame – she had died in prison – but Monsieur T, the “prince” of her dreams

47863 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Alec in France, 5, #594 of 1199 🔗

Was she recorded as a covid death?

47869 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cecil B, 2, #595 of 1199 🔗

He reminds me now of Buster Blood Vessel from Bad Manners; the court jester .

47897 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to wendyk, 2, #596 of 1199 🔗

Caption competition – Lip up fatty !

47839 Miss Truth-Seeker, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, 4, #597 of 1199 🔗

Hi there. I’m a long term visitor of this site and I need some advice. My partner and I have very different views on this sh*tshow of a lockdown. He very much accepts the MSM narrative and I of course, don’t. My boyfriend and I live in separate households. He lives with a close relative who is in their 70s. During the lockdown I was cut off from everyone I love, and I found that difficult. It’s only recently that we’re spending time together under the same roof, and only when it was ‘allowed’ and socially distanced. I want our physical relationship back and he wants to wait for the govt to effectively to say that it’s okay! I don’t know what to do, is anyone else in this situation?

47916 ▶▶ Emma, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, 11, #598 of 1199 🔗

Bin him, it’ll never work.

47933 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Emma, 7, #599 of 1199 🔗

Agreed. Not worth the effort.

47947 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to bluemoon, 6, #600 of 1199 🔗

Look out for some one with a mind of his own. You’ll be happier.

47939 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, 8, #601 of 1199 🔗

He lives with his mother, oh god preserve us. Dump him. I’m available, we could have a lot of fun together. Get in touch

47948 ▶▶▶ Emma, replying to Cecil B, 8, #602 of 1199 🔗

I love how this forum has turned into an advice/agony column – the other day it was tips on removing ear wax 🙂

47954 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Emma, 11, #603 of 1199 🔗

I love the humour, it’s keeping me going during this seemingly never-ending descent into insanity …

48191 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Emma, 1, #604 of 1199 🔗

Sceptics are omniscient, didn’t you know?

48004 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, 4, #605 of 1199 🔗

Challenge him about being under the same roof, but at a ‘safe distance’.
Alternatively, say you need time to think about the way this is damaging your relationship and hint that you’ll go your own way for a while.
Test the waters.

48009 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, 1, #606 of 1199 🔗

Is he open to looking at other sources of information? Eg the swprs one ( https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/ ), which is basically facts, with direct links to their sources..
It is not an ‘in your face’ anti-lockdown site, so is maybe more ‘acceptable’ to those yet to see the truth!

48037 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, 4, #607 of 1199 🔗

I don’t think you should bin him immediately, maybe try and persuade him of our side of the argument, there’s more than enough evidence. And you are in a relationship with him for a reason – you love him and have things in common, and see a future with one another.

However, if he’s genuinely socially distancing from you after 4 months apart and actually obeying the government’s arbitrary, inconsistent and dehumanising rules, then he may be a lost cause and will not be persuaded. Imagine allowing the government to regulate your sex life and not think it’s totally ludicrous! There will be many, many more people out there who will treat you much better if he’s not going to change his ways.

48043 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Poppy, 4, #608 of 1199 🔗

Start talking about barge poles.

48089 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, 2, #609 of 1199 🔗

Oh come on. Do dinner, 6 oysters, big fat steak and chips, apple pie with ice cream, bottle of wine, youll soon find out if he really fancies you – he can take a shower before he goes home, can’t he?

48117 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, 1, #610 of 1199 🔗

Get rid.

48132 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, #611 of 1199 🔗

He clearly does not care about you…bin the bed wetter now!!

48190 ▶▶ annie, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, 5, #612 of 1199 🔗

Find another boyfriend. God knows, there’s no shortage of them.

Yours affectionately,
Margery Proops II.

48312 ▶▶ gina, replying to Miss Truth-Seeker, #613 of 1199 🔗

He’s a control freak. No woman should ever have to plead for sex. Run away quickly…

47843 Ed Turnbull, replying to Ed Turnbull, 15, #614 of 1199 🔗

Can I suggest that one way of approaching the mask insanity (already inflicted on us poor buggers in Scotland) is to get one of these as your ‘face covering’

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plague-Doctor-Mask-Steampunk-Halloween/dp/B07Q245DGM/ref=pd_ybh_a_7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7S0XZCP8KP5VKYQSCDVK

It complies with the letter of the bloody stupid law, whilst simultaneously taking the piss. And, as a bonus, it should also frighten small children. Mine’s already been delivered and I’ll be road testing it this evening.

An alternative, if you don’t facing looking like something from a Hieronymus Bosch triptych, would a be a V for Vendetta mask. The sight of lots of those in the shops should send a suitable message to our would-be Chancellor Sutlers.

And for the ladies, how about a niqab. Accessorised with halter top and ‘Daisy Duke’ shorts (I have fond memories of the 70s). What shop could turn you away? They wouldn’t want to appear islamophobic after all, would they? Chin chin.

47864 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ed Turnbull, 5, #615 of 1199 🔗

Gather up a posse and pay a visit to the bank ala Money Heist.

47870 ▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #616 of 1199 🔗

Speaking of a posse. I’m hoping that to get an active sceptic community going in central Scotland so we can meet physically and carry out a little civil disobedience en masse.

47873 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ed Turnbull, 5, #617 of 1199 🔗

I’ve already thought of a great way for a group of co-ordinated people to put a stop to Sainsbury’s ridiculous rule of only two people allowed in their filling station shops.

It’s amazing what half a dozen dedicated people can quietly and passive-aggressively achieve!

47878 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Ed Turnbull, 8, #618 of 1199 🔗

I wish you every success – this is surely what’s needed, small localised groups across the country but with a focused and coordinated game plan.

47899 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Ed Turnbull, 8, #619 of 1199 🔗

There are plenty of normal masks available on e.g. Etsy with slogans printed on them like:
This mask is as useless as our politicians.
This mask is useless.
Worn under protest.
Freedom instead of fear.
Etc.

That should do.

47922 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ed Turnbull, #620 of 1199 🔗

It protects your eyes as well, which is extra safe.

48002 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ed Turnbull, #621 of 1199 🔗

I think we should all wear one of those latex masks of Boris!

48036 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Ed Turnbull, #622 of 1199 🔗

My 4-year-old is obsessed with Bubonic Plague. He’s been begging me to get one of those masks since Christmas. Obviously, they don’t come in kid sizes, so he wants me to get one for myself to wear for his amusement. Knowing him though, he would be scared despite saying that he won’t be, so I haven’t ordered one.

48376 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ed Turnbull, #623 of 1199 🔗

Got one a few weeks ago.

47857 Albie, replying to Albie, 22, #624 of 1199 🔗

You would’ve thought having had a serious life changing illness that Andrew Marr would realise life is too short to spend living in abject fear, surrounded by draconian rules. Not so. He’s one of the chief “lock us up forever” cheerleaders at the Big Bedwetters Corporation (BBC).

47871 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Albie, 10, #625 of 1199 🔗

Perhaps there’s a reason why these BBC *intellectuals* choose not to see what’s going on around them. I don’t just mean the treatment Eamon Holmes got for suggesting to think alternatively. I get a sense much is hidden about the clear bias these people routinely display.

47883 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Albie, 9, #626 of 1199 🔗

The German government has put into law on 3.6.20 that the pandemic will only be declared over when there is a vaccine available.
A perfect pretense for restricting freedom and oppress the saner part of the population for many years to come/for good.

47970 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #627 of 1199 🔗

‘available’ is rather ominous, no?

48039 ▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Alec in France, #628 of 1199 🔗

I read a report that said Astra Zeneca are going ahead with production of so many gazillion phials or whatever ‘in case the vaccine works’.

48000 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, #629 of 1199 🔗

Ominous… and interesting in that the criteria for it being a pandemic are not being fulfilled any more, if they ever were….

48001 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #630 of 1199 🔗

And then it wont be declared over until everyone has been vaccinated, and then it wont be declared over because people are still dying because the vaccine doesn’t work and then it wont be declared over because politicians are enjoying it too much.

47998 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Albie, 2, #631 of 1199 🔗

Why isn’t he wearing a mask then? He is not alone in the TV studio, nor in the make-up room or anywhere else in the building..

47868 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #632 of 1199 🔗

Caption competition:

comment image

47876 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #633 of 1199 🔗

‘This round’s on me’ :pub empties rapidly.

47877 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #634 of 1199 🔗

Time for a pint. I’ve been running around like a blue arsed fly all day.

47884 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #635 of 1199 🔗

Not a caption, but I notice in both pics of Boris the indentation of the mask over his mouth. He is clearly inhaling through his mouth which would suggest that the mask is obstructing his nose.

47887 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to bluemoon, 7, #636 of 1199 🔗

It’s the mask equivalent of a camel toe!!!

47920 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to bluemoon, 4, #637 of 1199 🔗

That was the first thing I noticed too. It looks like an awful mask!

47993 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to bluemoon, 5, #638 of 1199 🔗

I noticed that too.. Boris has now made a rod for his own back though, in that he will have to wear a mask in public all the time now, because otherwise he will look like a hypocrite and send out mixed messages. Woe betide him if he is pictured getting into a car and taking the mask off, or indeed removing it at all anywhere where there are other people, because he might infect them! Or at least that is what they are saying to us….

But hopefully he will experience the negative effects of wearing a mask and the message will then change.

48012 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Carrie, 3, #639 of 1199 🔗

He’ll only have to wear a mask when he next pulls a pint or goes shopping. Which I doubt happens very often.

48034 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #640 of 1199 🔗

Might be interesting for someone to follow him about for a few weeks and see if they can catch him mask-less.
Will Hancock now be wearing a mask? Chris Whitty? Patrick Vallance? All politicians, including in Parliament? If not, why not?

48029 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to bluemoon, 1, #641 of 1199 🔗

That’s what my eyes went to, too.

47886 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #642 of 1199 🔗

Blue funk
Blue f..k up
The Goons return ;Bluebottle lives!

47893 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #643 of 1199 🔗

How do I drink this?

47903 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #644 of 1199 🔗

“Think I’ve had a stroke”

47913 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #645 of 1199 🔗

Cbeebies reveal new tellytubby

47914 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #646 of 1199 🔗

Next time I go in a Fullers pub I’m going to shit myself in protest

47919 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #647 of 1199 🔗

I’m boycotting Fullers bubs from now on.

47987 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #648 of 1199 🔗

So much for Rebellion IPA!

47959 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #649 of 1199 🔗

I have to wear this mask because otherwise you’ll see right through me.

48293 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Cheezilla, #650 of 1199 🔗

This is the last time I let Carrie make me a home-made face mask out of a pair of her knickers.

47881 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 18, #651 of 1199 🔗

Just seen Michael Gove on Andrew Marr Show. He seems to be saying that masks WON’T be mandated by law in England. Perhaps Boris was just flying a kite to see how the public reacted to suggestion that masks should be mandatory and has decided that it’s not worth the effort.

47890 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Gillian, 9, #652 of 1199 🔗

I really hope so. I thought it was a bit odd that they kept saying they needed to be more “insistent” about it rather than just saying they were thinking about making it compulsory.

48268 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #653 of 1199 🔗

I think Boris will ‘insist’ in his next fireside chat, but there will be no….. mandating. Simply because enforcement would be am absolute mare, and the potential for civil unrest amongst members of the public against each *other* would be too disruptive at this point in the ‘covid recovery’ plan.

47900 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Gillian, 14, #654 of 1199 🔗

It seems like Dom Cummings’ focus groups, as well as his monitoring of ‘public opinion’, have yielded results. I wonder if the strongly anti-mask comments on that Telegraph article about possible mandatory masks in England a couple of days ago had anything to do with this, given that the Conservatives’ core voter base reads that newspaper.

47925 ▶▶▶ Paul B, replying to Poppy, 12, #655 of 1199 🔗

I wonder if I’m doing anything useful shouting into the social media/Telegraph comments section voids constantly, all it does is make you feel hopeless and angry. There is always the outside chance that they are listening I suppose.

48118 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Paul B, 1, #656 of 1199 🔗

Paul, keep it up, every little helps!

48181 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Paul B, 1, #657 of 1199 🔗

Do you check to see how many upticks you get? I suspect it’s a lot. Not that you should be obsessed with ticks – but it shows you are being listened to. Of course you are. You are helping every time you post. Hammer hammer hammer at the buggers!

48302 ▶▶▶▶ gina, replying to Paul B, 1, #658 of 1199 🔗

I write a direct email to his nibbs the PM and my MP every time some new piece of malarky is threatened. I too doubt it makes any difference to outcomes but I feel like I am at least actively participating in what’s left of our democracy. Its gotta be useful – speaking up for the truth – where ever we can. Keep at it. And it’s so British isn’t it? I’m really, really angry – I shall write a letter!

47985 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 3, #659 of 1199 🔗

Exactly – I thought this too!

47902 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to Gillian, 6, #660 of 1199 🔗

We can’t read anything into this – apart from the fact that, as Politician, he’s probably lying.

47918 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Gillian, 7, #661 of 1199 🔗

Looking at the picture below, perhaps Boris realised that they’re horrible things to wear and make you look like a twit.

47921 ▶▶ Tony, replying to Gillian, 6, #662 of 1199 🔗

Is this true?
Can’t see them backing down – since Jimmy Krankie is saying mask are here to stay!

47938 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Tony, 1, #663 of 1199 🔗

The Sun says it. It must be true!

47944 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tony, 3, #664 of 1199 🔗

Here to stay? has she been kind enough to tell us for how long, or is she suggesting permanently? I wouldn’t put that past her. Certainly the editor of The Guardian thinks they should be “part of everyday life” or the “new (permanent) normal”.

47952 ▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Tenchy, 1, #665 of 1199 🔗

One of the links on here goes to The Sun that says they should be permanent

47924 ▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to Gillian, 10, #666 of 1199 🔗

It seems the logic going forward will be “we won’t make masks mandatory…as long as everyone wears one”. Much like in March, when we were told if we were good little boys and girls tougher measures wouldn’t need to be brought in. After that, someone somewhere came within 6 feet of another person and we all had to be locked down.

47986 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John Lilburne, 1, #667 of 1199 🔗

Yes, also like what Matt Hancock said about the tracking app..

48108 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, 1, #668 of 1199 🔗

Someone needs to sit him down and explain what the word “voluntary” actually means…

48185 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to John Lilburne, 5, #669 of 1199 🔗

Well everyone won’t be wearing one, because even if all the other 7 billion or so people in the world are wearing one there will be one that isn’t, and it will be me, and I will be right and the 7 billion will be wrong. End of.

47926 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Gillian, 6, #670 of 1199 🔗

Aren’t there law suits pending re. compulsory mask wearing?

47988 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to bluemoon, 5, #671 of 1199 🔗

Yes – which may explain this!
Even if the government win cases in court, it is nonetheless a lot of time and effort for them to prepare and fight each case, so they may now be looking to avoid them..

47935 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Gillian, 3, #672 of 1199 🔗

You shouldn’t go to the pub became the pubs are closed. I’m hoping that “you should wear a face nappy” doesnt become “You must wear a face muzzle”.

47958 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to arfurmo, #673 of 1199 🔗

I can’t think of any reason why the government would NOT mandate mask wearing. It solves a lot of problems for them. Everything can get back to normal, if we all wear masks all the time, because masks protect us so their dirty secret is safe but the economy can start to recover. Unless they are going to suspend general elections, they will need to face the public in 5 years time and won’t want huge unemployment.

47982 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gillian, 1, #674 of 1199 🔗

–although they’ve done so many u-turns that you can never be sure!

47990 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Gillian, 5, #675 of 1199 🔗

When Michael Gove becomes your saviour it is surely time to end it all.

48022 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Gillian, #676 of 1199 🔗

Yeah, I’d believe that weaselly little shit.

It’s been a long time since I’ve slapped Gove…. https://www.producthunt.com/posts/slap-michael-gove

48579 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to TyLean, 1, #677 of 1199 🔗

We need one for Bojo and Handjob

47901 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 28, #678 of 1199 🔗

If what that female Prof from Imperial College (God help us!) was saying on the Marr Show about the virus hanging as a viable virus in the air for an hour (at least) after being spluttered out ready to infect us is correct, shouldn’t we all supermarket workers be infected or dead by now?

47905 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Gillian, 7, #679 of 1199 🔗

Yes, they should 😠

47906 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Gillian, 13, #680 of 1199 🔗

I could not believe the tripe she was coming out with.

47930 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Sarigan, 7, #681 of 1199 🔗

Why is the BBC putting out stuff like this? They must know that the science is not clearcut. Why frighten everyone?

47953 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Gillian, 19, #682 of 1199 🔗

The BBC has an agenda – it clearly thinks that putting the world into permanent pandemic mode serves that agenda. Their role in this shameful episode is second only to the government’s and Parliaments in terms of culpability.

47999 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, #683 of 1199 🔗

Because that’s the clear agenda.

Did you read the SAGE piece in Toby’s links?

48177 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Gillian, #684 of 1199 🔗

Because that’s their job (despite the fact we pay for them.) . It’s what Goebbels did to facilitate Hitler’s/Third Reich’s agenda. Same difference.

47909 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to Gillian, 8, #685 of 1199 🔗

Look up the Pyramid of Evidence used by science. I would doubt that this is anywhere past level 6/7. File as untrue until proven.

47910 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Gillian, 14, #686 of 1199 🔗

If true, we must nearly all have come into contact with it by now (after all, supermarkets have been maskless throughout), and trying to contain or eradicate it is a ridiculous idea.

47912 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #687 of 1199 🔗

Also, usually they come up with results like this from using machines in a climate-controlled lab, which they then like to extrapolate to the real world.

47915 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #688 of 1199 🔗

Exactly. Any attempt to contain or eradicate is doomed to failure. End of the human race. Don’t panic!

47934 ▶▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Gillian, 4, #689 of 1199 🔗

I think Canute proved this many years ago-though the story is that he knew he couldn’t stop the tide, he just wanted to prove to those who thought he could, that he couldn’t. Saint Jacinda, Wee Jimmy and Drayford are going to find this out.

47978 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #690 of 1199 🔗

Exactly!

48072 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to A. Contrarian, #691 of 1199 🔗

You have. It is. Unless you happen to live or work in a healthcare facility, factory, slaughterhouse. Or travel regularly for more than a short ride on an enclosed mass transit system.

47911 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Gillian, 12, #692 of 1199 🔗

Either scientists have wiped the slate clean and are starting from scratch in collating knowledge of viruses or this virus is unique in defying all previously understood laws of nature.

47943 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #693 of 1199 🔗

All based on one Chinese woman, and discredited on 4 February 2020. That’s right. February.

“A report in one of the world’s most prestigious scientific journals of asymptomatic transmission of Wuhan coronavirus, 2019-nCoV appears to have been made in error, leading scientists to question if the new virus spreads as easily as feared.”

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/crucial-report-claiming-coronavirus-transmittable-before-symptoms-appear-may-be-wrong/ (04 FEB 2020, 12:37)

47956 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #694 of 1199 🔗

Some scientists are mindful of funding sources or their political masters, some are just enjoying the power and glory they now have.

47937 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Gillian, #695 of 1199 🔗

We should have all died in the storms.
Actually, I bet she’s right. I still think I had the thing in April.

47961 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Gillian, 5, #696 of 1199 🔗

Strange as I’ve seen footballers running around for 90 minutes, sweating and then hugging and kissing each other and as far as I can tell most teams haven’t been asking for volunteers to make up a team for a Saturday afternoon kick about.

47976 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gillian, #697 of 1199 🔗

A good thing to say to anyone who appears to have believed what she says!!!

47989 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Gillian, 2, #698 of 1199 🔗

According to the ONS “Coronavirus deaths by occupation”, check-out operators are 86th on the list.

48013 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Edna, 4, #699 of 1199 🔗

I’ve wondered about the perspex screens protecting checkout operators. Presumably if an infected customer sneezes or coughs going through the checkout process, the screen prevents any water droplets containing virus hitting the checkout operator. But presumably if (per the aerosol theory) some virus from the splutter (excuse the language) hangs in the air as aerosol particles the particles could drift up and over the perspex screen and be breathed in by the checkout operator. So the screen doesn’t really protect.

48044 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Gillian, 3, #700 of 1199 🔗

We are given contradictory information about how Covid spreads. We were told if someone coughs or sneezes the droplets are heavy and don’t travel very far.

47908 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 13, #701 of 1199 🔗

Anyone on here with more virus-related knowledge than me (I’m actually a biology graduate but it was nearly 20 years ago now!) I’m still puzzling over this asymptomatic spread thing. I’ve never heard of any other virus that can supposedly cause no symptoms in so many people, but yet they are still so capable of spreading it that we all need to be permanently masked up for everyday interactions such as passing someone in a shop. How can this actually be possible? If these symptomless people are not getting symptoms because their T cells fight it off before it can get a hold, surely you would only be able to pass it on for a very short time and with very close contact?

Similarly, say you’re vaccinated against flu, and you encounter a strain that was actually included in the vaccine that year. The vaccine doesn’t stop you from breathing in the virus so it will enter your throat and nose and would presumably be present there should someone decided to stick a swab up your nose. You would therefore be a “case” and have an “infection” but the virus wouldn’t be able to get a hold in your body as your immune system would destroy it pretty quickly. But up until this point, wouldn’t you theoretically be able to infect another by coughing or sneezing? But yet we are told that being vaccinated will stop us getting ill or passing it on…

47923 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #702 of 1199 🔗

I think this article by an eminent Swiss Immunologist may help to answer your question. The other problem is that I’m not sure what the PCR test is actually measuring. As far as I can tell it was never intended as a diagnostic test and may be detecting bits of virus RNA rather than live viruses. https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809

47974 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #703 of 1199 🔗

All very good questions – I’ve been wondering this as well. The case for mask-wearing by all falls if you cannot pass the virus on if you are yourself asymptomatic..

48049 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #704 of 1199 🔗

This whole episode reminds me of 1986 when there was an outbreak of bacterial meningitis around the Stroud area. Several teenagers sadly died and it became known for obvious reasons as “the kissing disease”. It appears that up to 10% of us could be carrying the meningococcal bacteria in our throats at any one time and if we had (very) close contact with someone who carried it, we might be unlucky. A girl at the school where I was teaching at the time was one of those unlucky ones and died. The school never closed though.
With Covid, I see this “asymptomatic spread” as being part of the fear narrative. There weren’t enough people becoming seriously ill and dying with Covid even at its height, (when you consider that only about 300 under 65s with no KNOWN co- morbidity have died) so by suggesting that, even if you were healthy, you could be a granny killer simply ramps up the fear and guilt in people.

48096 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, 1, #705 of 1199 🔗

Interesting; In 1987 my sister’s best friend (aged 16) got bacterial meningitis and died. The school did not close, but all of her class (it was a girls’ school) were tested. The risk was very low, because it happened within a couple of days of the start of the autumn term, so few girls had met each other in the days before, but the school obviously had to act. It was very sad, and particularly traumatic for the class in question..

48144 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Carrie, #706 of 1199 🔗

I don’t remember anyone being tested at the school where I was teaching. It was 100 miles from Stroud anyway and apparently the girl who died had friends there and had attended a party recently.
It’s also struck me that Covid has “replaced” sepsis and meningitis in being the threat to look out for. Our local ambulances were always plastered with advice about recognising sepsis or meningitis and the need to get to hospital immediately. Likewise there were plenty of tragic stories in MSM. With Covid, if you thought you had it, you were advised to stay at home until your lips were turning blue (well almost!)

48098 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #707 of 1199 🔗

We have never attempted to use these types of tests in this way with any other virus before so we do not know what is normal – we have no baseline. There is no reason to believe that what we are seeing is a unique property of this particular virus.

48105 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #708 of 1199 🔗

Yes, my thoughts exactly. I’d love to see it done this way with the flu to get some sort of comparison.

48153 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #709 of 1199 🔗

It would certainly help make more sense of the numbers but I would prefer they forgot the whole idea and focused on treating peoples cancer and other serious disease.

Hopefully one day we will have the technology to sample and properly sequence all the viruses present on and around a person in such a way and at such a cost that it could occur continuously and then we could learn a great deal. Hopefully we will also have gained the wisdom also not to use this capability as an excuse to violate peoples natural rights. Right now though the technology is just to crude to be of any real use. It like being able to take a black and white photo from one location on planet earth each year and then trying to reconstruct the history of the human race.

47917 Paul B, replying to Paul B, 20, #710 of 1199 🔗

Isn’t it funny that the only way to gain widespread adoption of mask wearing isn’t to post legitimate scientific evidence, debate and discussion, moreover it is to emphasize that you “aren’t protecting yourself you are protecting others”. Typical social engineering 101 – get the idiots to do the enforcement through snitching, aggression and shaming – what a lovely country we live in…

47932 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Paul B, 11, #711 of 1199 🔗

It’s time we turned the table on some of these virtue-signalling chumps and got organised. Use their own nonsense against them eg. choose a particular pub chain (not Spoons as they’ve been okay) and report them to ICO for a data breach as there are names and numbers left at the door / likely stored insecurely.

There are that many rules and guidance, I’d like to see some targeted individuals picked out for not sticking by them to the letter. Hoisted by their own Petards.

47966 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul B, 2, #712 of 1199 🔗

Have you read the Mail article Toby linked above? (People won’t obey lockdown again).

What a load of fearmongering misinformation. Absolute disgrace.

If you feel up to it, there’s plenty of room for some intelligent counter-comments.

47928 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #713 of 1199 🔗

He doesn’t look like a bank robber does he? What’s his view on the wearing of a burka these days?

48178 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #714 of 1199 🔗

Years ago, I remember the Beeb screening a laudatory programme about. courageous Afghan women trying to defy the burka tyranny. How very brave these women were, to resent having their faces covered and their personalities eliminated.
Yeah.Years ago that was.

47936 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 7, #715 of 1199 🔗

The Sun: masks not mandatory (Gove).

47941 ▶▶ Paul B, replying to Bugle, 5, #716 of 1199 🔗

And all of the comments moaning that it should be enforced as ‘you might not know you have it’ – since when is a virus spread from a person who is asymptomatic!? Why are people so quick to throw stones in fear, do your own research for christ’s sake.

47955 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Paul B, 5, #717 of 1199 🔗

Some of the commenters are shills. Most of the rest have been brainwashed by the government at taxpayers’ expense. HMG has a powerful and sophisticated propaganda machine.

48092 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Bugle, 1, #718 of 1199 🔗

Shills such as the 77th Brigade funded by our own taxes. Its nice to live in a world where we are forced to pay tax to pay someone to subject us to constant fear and coercion.

47964 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bugle, 4, #719 of 1199 🔗

Maybe they’ve been reading the DT comments page after their article on mask-wearing!

47980 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bugle, 1, #720 of 1199 🔗

– only ‘encouraged’
Cue pictures of thumbscrews and heretic’s forks!

47942 WillemKoppenhol, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 6, #721 of 1199 🔗

Dutch State TV releases usual COVID-19 death porn. Story on Saturday 12 July:

Healthcare workers on the Dam square: ‘This is hitting hard’
Dozens of health care workers stood on the Dam (Amsterdam) this afternoon to commemorate the death of 13 colleagues, as a tribute.

Nurse Annemarie: “Anyone who claims that it is still a flu should really start thinking”.

Comes with a video (in Dutch) in which this nurse states that 17.000 of her coworkers have had COVID-19 and that 13 died because of COVID-19. Of course, 13 is not nice, nobody wants medical staff to die at/because of work. But how many people actually work in (relevant) medical professions in the Netherlands?

Well, they don’t mention that in the video but the Dutch office for statistics CBS has a page on exactly that . The complete total (incl. even administrative staff etc.) in 2018 was 1.36 million, but if you use the more relevant categories (Ziekenhuizen en overige medische specialistische zorg; Universitair medische centra; Huisartsen en gezondheidscentra) you get 319.000 (again incl. other staff in those specific categories). Since they don’t state which group they mean, it could be 17.000 with COVID-19 of which 13 died from a total of anywhere between 300.000+ tot 1+ million workers.

Again, nobody likes medical staff to get ill or even worse die, but is 13 deaths out of hundreds of thousands to even more than a million really so unbelievably terrible…? If you take 13 as a percentage of 17.000 cases it is still just 0.08%, let alone what percentage you would get at the total number of (relevant) workers.

Compared to the whole of the Netherlands, in which the official IFR is (according to Dutch minister for public health, on 25 June) 0.32-1% that 0.08% sounds remarkably good to me. It is almost as if working in health care actually saved you from a COVID-19 death…

It starts to feel as if Andy Warhol’s “15 minutes of fame” has now arrived at the medical professions.

Original direct link: https://nos.nl/liveblog/2340300-massale-betoging-tegen-coronabeleid-israel-overleden-zorgmedewerkers-herdacht#UPDATE-container-46330241

47945 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 2, #722 of 1199 🔗

Oh crikey, our NHS ‘heroes’ will probably be doing the same soon…..

47960 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 9, #723 of 1199 🔗

I’d been interested in seeing how many health care workers die of flu each year for comparison. Anybody got any data on that?

47969 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 3, #724 of 1199 🔗

How many health care workers died in the same period in previous years?
13 may be more or less than the average.

48003 ▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Alec in France, 6, #725 of 1199 🔗

I wish I had more specific data, I even had to gamble of which group/number the 17.000 came… But still, whether it is more or less than previous years or more or less than the flu, under all circumstances it is simply a very low number. However, to organize a demonstration for these 13 deaths is, I am sorry to say, a bit overdone.

The other day I read another Dutch COVID-19 story, about “heroes of the health sector” and their memories of their time during the COVID-19 “crisis”. People were talking about their memories of the disaster, how difficult it all was. You’d think the stories would be about dead people on the floor, doctors collapsing and dying, of nurses writing their wills, but no, none of that.

One even had a story how irritating it was to come home after work and to find that due to hamstering he couldn’t buy “a piece of meat” because he “also liked my piece of meat” and he thought hamstering was anti-social because he couldn’t buy his meat after work. Now if that is your very worst memory of a disaster you know you haven’t been in a disaster. And sorry to say so but no disaster means no hero either!

48060 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 1, #726 of 1199 🔗

I love your language, first noticed it when you quoted something called ‘flockimmunitet'(?), now ‘hamstering’ for (?) hoarding?

48085 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bruno, #727 of 1199 🔗

Don’t know any Dutch, but hoarding in Swedish is the equivalent of ‘hamster-ing’ when translated, and there is also a verb ‘to hamster’ stuff, if you translate it literally. Herd immunity in Swedish is ‘flockimmunitet’ (so ‘flock’ immunity as opposed to ‘herd’)..

48196 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Carrie, 1, #728 of 1199 🔗

I honestly thought “to hamster” had by now also been used already in Britain.

However, flockimmunitet is as Carrie mentioned, indeed Swedish, not Dutch, so that can’t have come from one of my texts.

The Dutch for herd immunity is literally translated “group immunity” in English. That’s because when the government still wanted to do the sensible thing (like the Swedes!) the term “herd” was deemed too negative, so they came up with “group”. But after the British government panicked, our government panicked too.

47992 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 7, #729 of 1199 🔗

I wonder if their deceased colleagues were as overweight…..

48005 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #730 of 1199 🔗

Oh that was my first thought!!!

48007 ▶▶▶ WillemKoppenhol, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #731 of 1199 🔗

To be honest: that’s not why I took that particular screenshot (it was the best overview shot), but I did have exactly the same thought!

Another one I realized a few minutes ago: 13 out of a million or so co-workers, that’s almost 30 times better than the general Dutch population at 358 COVID-19 deaths per million. They should be celebrating and dancing: “The gods spared most of us!” In a way this is almost ungrateful…

48032 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #732 of 1199 🔗

Indeed..

47946 Cbird, replying to Cbird, #733 of 1199 🔗

Just a comment on lockdown truth: I think it’s a great idea but it’s so slow it’s virtually unusable. Also I just tried to post a comment but after 5 unsuccessful attempts I gave up. Am I doing something wrong?

Lockdown sceptics. com works much better

48010 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Cbird, 2, #734 of 1199 🔗

Lockdown Truth is Wix…. which is a problem.

I can’t seem to get LockdownSkeptics.com to send me a verification email.

Not to be too alarmist, but I think it’s sensible to be spread across multiple websites that we – the users – own. (Rather than platforms such as Reddit). Even owning our own websites, if they aren’t hosted in the correct locations (like NearlyFreeSpeech), then there is a real risk of being “disappeared.”

If we are all engaging on multiple websites, then if any one of them goes down for any reason (which could be as simple as the site owner not paying the bills or as extreme as the host deleting it), then we aren’t starting from scratch again in terms of networking.

48035 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to TyLean, 1, #735 of 1199 🔗

Thanks TyLean. I also share your concern about security. (Paranoia just one more side effect of lockdown)

48430 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to TyLean, #736 of 1199 🔗

I’m mostly giving up. This place is basically unusable after a few hours and there’s no conversation happening on the forum. I think I’ll just retreat back into the place where I’m the only sane person in a world gone mad.

48553 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to matt, #737 of 1199 🔗

Don’t do that, we like to hear from you! What are you using, is it the hardware or your broadband?

48718 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Cbird, #738 of 1199 🔗

My husband and I (mostly my husband at my behest) are in the process of building a new website. ResistNewNormal.Net….. it’s not functional yet! I will post when it is.

47957 DoesDimSyniad, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 2, #739 of 1199 🔗

Having just read through the Canaries in the Mine piece and its updates, I am a little disappointed that no mention was made of the supposed ‘surge’ in coronavirus cases in Victoria over the past few weeks, despite a paragraph being specifically devoted to Australia in the latest update.
As best as I can see, Australia didn’t really have an outbreak (almost all were returned travellers and a small number of their contacts), but now Victoria (Melbourne mostly) has an actual community outbreak. I notice that it hasn’t changed the parameters of the SIR modelling though.
What is never mentioned is that Victoria is conducting a frankly ridiculous number of tests (overtaking New South Wales in raw numbers a few days ago, despite having a noticeably smaller population), and the proportion of ‘positives’ has not changed at all (still at 0.3% of the number tested – over a million, which is a sixth of the population of the state).
So I would be interested to see specific mention made of it in future updates, as it has frequently been reported (in my opinion erroneously) as a ‘second wave’, despite Australia not really having had a ‘first’ one!

47963 ▶▶ Julian, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 2, #740 of 1199 🔗

actual community outbreak”

You may have access to more information than I do. It’s commonly agreed that the number of positive tests is an underestimate given that the sampling is not random, so for example here the relevant authorities use various means (surveys, sampling?) to estimate the true number of people who would test positive. So if you do more testing, you will find more people who test positive, therefore merely taking that increased number and calling it an outbreak is not accurate. You’d really need to work out whether the ratio of positive to negative tests indicated that your previous estimates of the true number of positive people actually showed an increase. Given the ulterior motives of authorities and media when reporting “outbreaks”, the exact basis on which they make these assertions is generally not given, therefore I don’t put much faith in it.

47977 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 2, #741 of 1199 🔗

I don’t put much faith in it.”

Surely you mean ” I don’t put*any* faith in it.”

The magic of amplifying unsourced bits of RNA.

48208 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Julian, #742 of 1199 🔗

‘Outbreak’ as a term is not like ‘epidemic’ or ‘pandemic’ in my opinion – it is subjective, but I think a connected cluster (however small) is still reasonably called an ‘outbreak’. I have no faith in the methods they use because the ‘tests’ are nothing of the sort – nonetheless, I would say there is clearly something going through the community even if just a cold (it would be stretching credulity to suggest otherwise), they just made the decision at the beginning to be hysterical instead of stopping to think things through, and it has been the same almost globally ever since.

47968 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 6, #743 of 1199 🔗

The MSM are trying to create equivalence between cases, infections and deaths. If there were an island that had had no covid-19 at all and no visitors in or out, there would be no cases. As soon as they opened up travel to and from the outside world, they would get cases. Initial success in suppressing the spread of infection does not indicate that you have ‘beaten’ the disease. You have merely delayed it. They need to get infected otherwise they will never develop immunity.

48204 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Bugle, 1, #744 of 1199 🔗

Of course, which is why I tend to think it may perhaps not be such a bad thing at all. Melbourne at least could end up with no excuse to fear this pathetically mild virus (there is of course no reason to fear it, but there are plenty of excuses used). The Victorian government’s arrogance and incompetence may have a positive side-effect (another if it guarantees it will be voted out of office – I don’t need my mother and sister having to put up with rubbish government while I’m not there – I certainly won’t be living in Australia again myself if I can help it, so corrupt left wing governments there won’t bother me personally).

48121 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #745 of 1199 🔗

Welcome to the Bright Side, DDS!

48200 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nick Rose, #746 of 1199 🔗

You should know me from Guido Nick! And that I have been on the Bright Side from the very beginning! I’ve rarely posted on here, but am a regular reader.

I just thought it was a shame that despite Australia having a paragraph in the Canaries in the Mine update there was no mention of this supposed ‘surge’, even just to debunk the scaremongering.

I have grave doubts about the not-to-be-used-to-diagnose-coronavirus ‘tests’ that everyone is using, and wonder if it’s just a cold going around, since a positive result (assuming it’s not false) seems to indicate the person has any one of multiple viruses from Asia depending on the precise method used.

Also (despite the fact it’s due to government incompetence) if it makes authorities finally realise that it spreading is not the apocalypse, it will hopefully mean Australia will be less fucked than New Zealand. The country needs desperately to reopen (the borders for tourism and travel I mean, as only Melbourne has anything resembling a full lockdown left) and if they’re still all wetting the bed over a minor virus that will come back if we let people live normal lives again that’s not going to happen.

47962 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #747 of 1199 🔗

Look to NZ and Australia as a guide to what a zero COVID Scotland might look like. The wrong direction would be any increase in numbers…

Scotland’s Covid ‘elimination’ approach superior to England’s, say leading scientists
https://bit.ly/3ejMph9

National clinical director Jason Leitch said yesterday: “Yes, increased cases, hospitalisations, ICU [intensive care unit[ admissions could potentially relate to what we do, of course it could.

He warned that if cases continue to rise, it could see Scotland’s emergence from lockdown go into “reverse gear.”

“Advisors could potentially tell the First Minister to go backwards. I, of course, don’t want to do that but that has to be available to us if these numbers go in the wrong direction.”

47965 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 17, #748 of 1199 🔗

Who agreed to “elimination”? What happened to “flatten the curve”? Bastards. Why can’t people tell they’ve been had?

47981 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, 9, #749 of 1199 🔗

People flippantly demanding laws for masks etc don’t seem to realise that once it’s there the only way out is if the virus is eradicated. Which could be never.

47994 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #750 of 1199 🔗

I’ve just tried to discover if there is a time limit to wearing masks in shops in Scotland. There isn’t any apparently. “For the foreseeable future” are Ms. Sturgeon’s words. At best this policy will only keep the virus at bay – it can not eliminate. I’m much surprised there seems not to been more hard questioning on the possible time span. Are we buying into this forever? Would that not be a worse futurity than aught the virus could wreak?

48031 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #751 of 1199 🔗

How long till Scotland can ‘eliminate’ Sturgeon?

48088 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Ned of the Hills, 7, #752 of 1199 🔗

It won’t keep the virus at bay because masks don’t effing work. There isn’t a time limit because she (and her handlers) want the Scots to be totally submissive. It’s politics, not health.

48538 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ned of the Hills, #753 of 1199 🔗

Forever unless reason is returned. Vaccine up for covid then flu will have us masked up. They cannot discuss masking for flu at the moment for obvious reasons.

47984 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Julian, 13, #754 of 1199 🔗

Not sure if I saw it here but:

‘How did we get from “we must flatten the curve” to “our way of life must change forever”?’

48030 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 2, #755 of 1199 🔗

You did see it here – I posted it – but I got it from Simon Dolan’s Twitter 🙂

48084 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Sarigan, 4, #756 of 1199 🔗

When did we last implement lockdown? – that was already our way of life changing forever. Allowing the state to violate out natural rights in such a way was going to scar the country in a way from which it can never recover.

48081 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Julian, 8, #757 of 1199 🔗

I never agreed to ‘flatten the curve’, I don’t think the ‘flatten the curve’ idea ever justified lockdown. Where did this concept of lockdown suddenly emerge from? Who in their right mind would take a curve presented by Niel Furgeson seriously given his track record anyway.

By accepting the violation of our fellow citizens most basic human rights for any reason we invited everything that follows. Its funny how often I have heard people say ‘I dont agree with what he says but I would defend to the death his right to say it’ – well it seems when it comes to the right to leave the house and move freely its quite another matter.

48163 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #758 of 1199 🔗

I would like to see Sturgeon flattened

48016 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #759 of 1199 🔗

18 new cases of a non-lethal virus from a test that can’t actually find what it is supposed to be looking for.

Bollocks, if only I had worn my mask whilst shopping Friday, I could of saved 18 lives.

48094 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to stefarm, 7, #760 of 1199 🔗

Not cases, positive test results. Let’s not fall into that media trap. Cases require medical intervention. This is one example of how the media keep up the fear. Not cases, stress that.

48215 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bella, 2, #761 of 1199 🔗

Thank you Bella, I shall remember that, I wonder how many tests were needed to find 18.

48541 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, #762 of 1199 🔗

Thanks bella. Not cases. Positive tests. Not ill. Not anything other than a tick on a test form.

48033 ▶▶ Prickly Thistle, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #763 of 1199 🔗

And she will just love it if the advisers tell her to increase lockdown. We live in a police state up here.

48314 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #764 of 1199 🔗

I make a prediction, especially after Wee Jimmie’s proclamations today that she’s thinking about quarantining every visitor to Scotland for 14 days: with any rise in the daily figures of those that have tested positive for Wuflu, she will panic and lockdown Scotland completely again.

She knows she is funded by the UK government & doesn’t care two hoots for independent businesses, so it is no skin off her nose. Plus it means she could close the border with England, which would play to her independence goals.

The only answer by Boris (if he’s even got the b***s to do it) would be to withdraw all funding to Scotland & call her bluff.

You think you’ve got it bad in England, but believe me it is far, far worse, living in the Peopke’s Republic of Scotland.

48542 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #765 of 1199 🔗

Truly . Awful living in this globalists experimental state. RoS

47972 RickH, replying to RickH, 4, #766 of 1199 🔗

Latest ONS estimation :

We estimate that an average of 1 in 3,900 individuals within the community population in England had COVID-19 at any given time between 22 June and 5 July 2020.”

Shiiittt! I’m scared!!!!! Where’s me mask?

That means that I have to kiss only about 4000 random individuals in order to embrace a Corona virus. I might then cohabit with it … then I might get love-sick because of it … which I might not get over quickly … and I could ultimately die of this infatuation.

What’s the bottom line odds of ‘really bad things happening’? Any offers?

47997 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 2, #767 of 1199 🔗

What’s the bottom line odds of ‘really bad things happening’?” Pretty low if you consider that for most healthy people the virus causes no serious problems.

48014 ▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 4, #768 of 1199 🔗

To answer my own question – I think it’s crudely somewhere around a 1.5m to 1 chance of dying from Covid-19 on average IFR estimates.

After that …. I began to lose the will to live, anyway 🙂 … but I think it must be about 600000 : 1 chance of developing a serious (hospitalizing) dose.

I’m never going to cross a road ever again, I soooo scared by these sort of odds.

48048 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to RickH, 1, #769 of 1199 🔗

You have to kiss over 20000. The chances of you catching it are at most 20% of those interactions

48090 ▶▶ Bella, replying to RickH, 2, #770 of 1199 🔗

Which makes the clamour for the wearing of masks even more grossly sinister.

47979 Edna, replying to Edna, 4, #771 of 1199 🔗

I just found this information on the ONS website; it’s a downloadable spreadsheet with deaths from Covid-19 by occupation.
The highest deaths are among “ Taxi and cab drivers and chauffeurs ” I thought it interesting that nurses are only 19th on the list, I really thought they would be at the top.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales

47996 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Edna, 4, #772 of 1199 🔗

Most deaths would state ‘retired’.

48028 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Edna, 4, #773 of 1199 🔗

I’d have thought supermarket workers would be at the top!

48067 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Edna, 4, #774 of 1199 🔗

Despite the MSM propaganda over the last few months I have seen various sources looking at the rate of death in the NHS and concluding it was normal. From a population of over a million people there is going to be people of all ages dying quite frequently – if the MSM wish to try and make out that these are now all covid deaths they can make it look like NHS staff are dying from covid all over but I don’t think the actual data ever backed up this claim.

48173 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Edna, 2, #775 of 1199 🔗

I’ve had a look at these tables. They are meaningless. Typists and keyboard operators have one death taxi drivers etc have 119. That says bugger all really. Taxi drivers and chauffeurs have more contact with lots more people so maybe more likely to have carried the virus or had a positive test, doesn’t mean it killed them. And relative to all causes of death the ratio is no different than that of authors and translators and actors and entertainers. So meaningless.

47991 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 7, #776 of 1199 🔗

Sending some love to Tony! I’ve been there…. it’s hell. It’s not good for you to carry the load alone. Good on you for saying something to Toby.

Just putting it out there, if anyone is feeling like they are getting to the brink, you can email me tylean .com to unload. Humans heal humans, and an email can save a life.

47995 ▶▶ Tony, replying to TyLean, 5, #777 of 1199 🔗

Thanks for that – really really feeling bad – hope Gove’s announcement is true because if they do become mandatory I just won’t make it.

48083 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tony, 5, #778 of 1199 🔗

Tony, it’s time to be defiant. Let that be your raison d’etre. Don’t give up without a fight. If you think you’re not going to make it (god forbid, there are bigger challenges we will face) then at least go down fighting. In the meantime you are amongst comrades here. No-one on this site but the weird troll that appears now and again is in favour of masks as far as I can tell.

48164 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tony, 2, #779 of 1199 🔗

Tony, yes you will make it. We will make it together. If they go for it, there will have to be exemptions, which you will either qualify for for real, or you will be able to ‘exploit’.

This is a step too far, and as The Who (that’s the rock group) say, “We’re Not Gonna Take It”.

48174 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tony, 7, #780 of 1199 🔗

YES YOU WILL. Because you will defy the buggers and we will be with you.
What can they do to you worse than what they’ve already done? Only what you let them. Don’t let them. Bugger them.

I’ve been out by the sea at a busy beach all morning and I can tell you that what everybody now wants, except the drivelling Covizombies under rhe bed, is the old normal and lots of it and right now. And that’s what we will get, if we don’t give in.

48180 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 4, #781 of 1199 🔗

I agree Annie. My shop is buzzing right now. Only two masks and one frit … I *think* the tide is turning … Everyone happy, being normal …

48209 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to kh1485, 1, #782 of 1199 🔗

Where is your shop – I’ll head over for some sanity!
Only one frit???

48213 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tony, 1, #783 of 1199 🔗

Saffron Walden. Yep, only one frit – jumped out of the way when we did the card payment!

48218 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to kh1485, 1, #784 of 1199 🔗

Thanks, what’s a frit?

48230 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tony, 2, #785 of 1199 🔗

Frightened …

48372 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, #786 of 1199 🔗

I used to live in fair Saffron Walden. I saw quite a few cafés come and go over the years.
One was wall-papered with pages of a comic featuring Dan Dare. The last sheet had him and his faithful sidekick in dire straits. I never did find out how they escaped!!
When I come back to visit old friends I will indubitably drop in to your heroic establishment!

48231 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to kh1485, 2, #787 of 1199 🔗

Just liked your FB page and hopefully can pop in for a cuppa sometime soon.

48233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 1, #788 of 1199 🔗

Thanks. You’ll be very welcome.

48300 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #789 of 1199 🔗

Have liked your Facebook page and hope to visit soon.

48183 ▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to annie, 3, #790 of 1199 🔗

Oh I really hope you are right, but all I see round West London are masked clowns lapping up the restrictions and being herded around like sheep. Everyone compiling to Boris and Co’s every wish. No one seems to want a life.

48207 ▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to annie, 1, #791 of 1199 🔗

Oh please be right – I am so down right now, all I see is morons that hang on Boris’ every whim.

48214 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tony, 2, #792 of 1199 🔗

Tony, head up the M11 and come and have a dose of sanity in my shop. Not sure about putting a link here but it’s listed on Toby’s shops now open page.

48216 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tony, 1, #793 of 1199 🔗

We all have down days. Please remember you’re not alone.

48292 ▶▶▶▶▶ gina, replying to Tony, #794 of 1199 🔗

courage mon brave. You are not alone. And this too will pass… Big hug.

48297 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tony, 1, #795 of 1199 🔗

Stay strong. We’re all in the same boat and you’re not alone.

48304 ▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #796 of 1199 🔗

Thanks, trying but really fearing the dystopian future being created.

48422 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tony, #797 of 1199 🔗

I know how you feel as I find myself being on and off the same boat as you are but the truth will come out and the day of reckoning is coming.

48015 ▶▶ Tony, replying to TyLean, 2, #798 of 1199 🔗

Feeling that even if Gove is right and they don’t make them compulsory tomorrow, its only a mater of time as there are just to many bedwetters!

48058 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tony, 8, #799 of 1199 🔗

I go out and it seems supermarkets, the roads and parks are getting busier – close to normal levels, I assume the bulk of people are out and about now. I only see about 1-2% wearing masks at the supermarket. I find it hard to believe half these people are out not wearing masks and seeming unconcerned with social distancing while simultaneously wanting the government to force them to have to wear masks. I think the apparent demand for mask wearing is mostly being manufactured by the MSM and government.

48069 ▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #800 of 1199 🔗

As a key worker I have been driving about West London and unfortunately masks are everywhere, took the dog out this morning and even some 20 odd year olds were doing some football training – 2 of them in masks!!

48134 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Tony, 6, #801 of 1199 🔗

Hello Tony, perhaps you need to get out of London more if you can. I posted yesterday that it’s a very different scene in my neck of the woods because we don’t have tubes, trams or buses crammed to the ceiling with passengers, even though it’s a sizeable city. Very, very few people wear masks here and those that do look as if they could be on the vulnerable list. I made the point that many of these rules, like social distancing and mask wearing on public transport, were made with London and the other big metropolitan areas in mind. In our large shopping centre it is very easy to keep well away from anyone else, even on a Saturday. Even in normal times, I would hate to have to shop in Oxford Street on a regular basis anyway. Remember if it would cause you distress to wear a mask, you are exempt from doing so.

48140 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tony, #802 of 1199 🔗

That is sad to hear ! I live outside London.

48157 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Tony, 8, #803 of 1199 🔗

The mask wearing seems to have taken on a virtual signalling / morally superior tone mainly due to the media and celebrities. Unfortunately, the young seem to be very easily influenced by social media, training wearing a mask is plain stupidity. I also find it dystopian seeing so many people wearing masks.

48168 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Darryl, 7, #804 of 1199 🔗

Yeah, it’s a fashion accessory for kids. Like the brownshirts.and swastikas.

48319 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Darryl, #805 of 1199 🔗

It doesn’t help that many people parade their virtue through social media, posting selfies of themselves or with someone wearing muzzles. They think they look like they care and we’re supposed to applaud them but actually I pity them for being easily led and swallowing the propaganda whole.

48167 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tony, 5, #806 of 1199 🔗

So the bed wetters can wear them. Making it mandatory may well backfire. Let’s see how it goes in Scotland. Ironically it’s the bed wetters who are sustaining the narrative that the virus is still deadly which it isn’t (and never was except to the extremely vulnerable, as is the common cold) and is now virtually non-existent. So it is the bed wetters who are building their own (and ours if we don’t fight) prison.

48006 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 19, #807 of 1199 🔗

On Friday Mr Johnson said “the balance of scientific opinion seems to have shifted more in favour of them

Science isn’t about balance of opinion (whatever that is supposed to mean). It is about empirical studies that test hypotheses. In this case the hypothesis would be that masks significantly reduce the transmission of viruses, specifically the coronavirus. The research on this issue is limited and does not show a benefit. But what has happened recently is that the corporate media have increasingly been pushing the notion that face masks are beneficial: that is the balance of opinion that has changed.

On 4 March Chris Whitty said:

In terms of wearing a mask our advice is clear, that wearing a mask if you don’t have an infection really reduces the risk almost not at all.

On 23 April Patrick Valance said:

The evidence on face masks has always been quite variable, quite weak. It’s quite difficult to know exactly, there’s no real trials on it.

The reason that was the position of both SAGE and the government’s senior medical and scientific advisors was because there is no evidence of benefit. The science has not changed. Here is a study from February 2020: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381
It shows even N95 are not effective. And the government’s Guidance, it should be noted, is the cut up an old T-shirt to make a face covering.

The wear face coverings messaging has nothing to do with any scientific research on virual transmission. It is about controlling behaviour: something the government has been following the scientific advice on.

48011 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #808 of 1199 🔗

And this, which I posted on yesterday’s comments, but is worth putting it here as well:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/face-masks-should-there-be-a-cover-up-

48026 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #810 of 1199 🔗

Exactly – it is BEHAVIOUR that they want to control, and only this studies that they are using to make policy!

48080 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #811 of 1199 🔗

Actually the research on this issue is more extensive than you might think and not one paper I gave read (out of about a dozen going back sometimes long before this virus) bears evidence that masks are effective against viruses (virii?). Therefore the ‘balance of scientific opinion having shifted in favour of them’ is pure bollocks. More propaganda.

48099 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Bella, 3, #812 of 1199 🔗

The research paper I cited has a long list of previous studies, all of which showed there was no evidence that wearing face masks reduces the transmission of a virus.

48166 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #813 of 1199 🔗

Yes, indeed.

48008 NickR, 1, #814 of 1199 🔗

The sceptical lockdown view stands or falls on 2 pieces of data, the IFR (infection fatality rate) and the level at which herd immunity is achieved. Ferguson & the Imperial team claim the IFR is about 0.9%, Levitt and others seem to suggest 0.25 or lower. If we take the number of deaths to date to be 44,000 then at an IFR rate of 0.9% something like 4.8m (7.2% of UK population) people must have been infected. If the rate is 0.25 then about 18m (27%of the population) must have been infected. There is also the debate around at which level we reach herd immunity, 20% or as high as 80%? It seems remarkable that at this stage we still don’t know the answer to either of these questions.

48021 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 11, #815 of 1199 🔗

As wearing masks lowers blood oxygen levels and increases CO2, it would be interesting if people were to start proferring the excuse for car accidents that they momentarily lost consciousness due to wearing a mask because they believed govt propaganda

48063 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nessimmersion, 11, #816 of 1199 🔗

The serious point is that the current bullshit about masks turns medical protocols on their head.

The norm is that benefit from any measure should outweigh the harm. It’s the basis of the Hypocratic Oath : ‘Do no harm’

In the case of face masks in normal environments, the evidence is such that there is no established benefit.

The harms caused by discomfort (at the lowest), restriction of oxygen and re-breathing of carbon dioxide and social disruption are, however, a fact.

48165 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to RickH, 1, #817 of 1199 🔗

I presume ‘Hypocratic Oath’ wasn’t a typo because there sure is a lot of hypocrisy going on out there. 🙂

48023 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #818 of 1199 🔗

Just found this (maybe already posted). It does not bode well if you live in Scotland, but just look at the comments ….

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5798685/coronavirus-scotland-nicola-sturgeon-face-masks-2/

48038 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tenchy, 10, #819 of 1199 🔗

Ha, great comments. This is the Scottish people I know and love. Best comment by far:

All the masks do is make everyone look like a mad Michael Jackson fan…..ha ha.

Wake up Sturgeon, you are ruining this country and people.

48046 ▶▶▶ Tony, replying to stefarm, 4, #820 of 1199 🔗

Couldn’t agree more – couldn’t find 1 pro mask comment there – wonder if BoJo and Krankie will look at that, combined with the DT, behaps they may think again – oh sorry what am I thinking they are NEVER WRONG.

48050 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Tony, 4, #821 of 1199 🔗

Krankie only reads the abysmal Glasgow Herald (used to be a great broadsheet, now just nationalist propaganda) and The National (sister paper of the Herald, started in 2014, tiny circulation), official organ of the SNP

48024 Paul, replying to Paul, 18, #822 of 1199 🔗

We went to the carpet shop on Friday,an independent one not a chain.Pleasant normal experience,no distancing etc,staff and customers happily mingling.Paid for the carpet and then came the insane part to spoil the atmosphere.The chap said he had to ask me some ‘Covid safety questions about ourselves and our house for the protection of the carpet fitters’ !,as he said it he gave me that ‘yes,I know,this is bollocks’ look.
He asked if we were feeling well today ?,had we had Covid ? or virus symptoms ?,was there anyone vulnerable in our house ?,our answer was yes to the first one and no for the rest and he then said I’ve got to read this bit to you,’when the fitters are at your house they will be wearing face coverings and you must remain behind a closed door in another room and must not socialise with them and you will need to sanitise the room they have been working in ‘,I beg your f***ing pardon ! ‘ or words to that effect was my response and I told him that we will decide what we do and how we treat people in our own house thankyou very much.The chap agreed it was ridiculous and offensive but it was being forced on them by the company providing their public liabilty insurance.
When the fitters arrive at our house the first think to happen is they will be offered a cup of tea and some cake !.

48027 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, #823 of 1199 🔗

Unbelievable. Too late to cancel the carpet order?

48102 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 6, #824 of 1199 🔗

To be fair to the shop,the chap I dealt with agreed it was a load of cobblers but he had to say it to me,orders from above as usual.I don’t think it was the first time he had received a reaction like mine to it !.I would expect the fitters will be perfectly normal when they come,most tradespeople have their heads screwed on properly !,we had an electrician at home last week and he was a total sceptic and we had a good talk about the ongoing lunacy.

48187 ▶▶ davews, replying to Paul, 3, #825 of 1199 🔗

I had the chap round to service my gas boiler last month. I was told all the same nonsense. As it happened as soon as the chap arrived he lowered his mask and we had a good chat… but was a bit disappointed to find his discarded mask on my front path after he had left.

48236 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Paul, 5, #826 of 1199 🔗

Had some carpet fitters round last week – all sceptics, happy for tea and biscuits, no masks, wanted to know where to find out more info so all nice and relaxed.

48054 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 13, #827 of 1199 🔗

I’m amazed at Northern Ireland. There’s no marching today for the 12th.

Hundreds of years of marching through all sorts, the siege of Drumcrue and the like, the standoffs and bitterness at the Parades commission.

All beaten by Covid-19.

48172 ▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 2, #828 of 1199 🔗

Total loss of identity.Maybe not a very nice identity, but what else do they have?
Be nothing, it’s safer.

48055 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 18, #829 of 1199 🔗

Last night was the first decent night sleep I have had in ages, and this morning, I woke up like normal… not trembling and soon to burst out in tears whilst making my breakfast.

What has changed…. well some of us agreed to meet in real life, and just knowing that real human contact with people who are not behaving like drones is on the horizon has made a big difference.

We are a social creature…. the power in what is being done to us is IMMENSE! And I’m glad we’re taking power back.

As the comment thread gets unruly here, just posting again that anyone who wants to meet, please let me know the range of where you’re happy to travel. We have people reading who don’t comment (or people who do comment who are – rightly – hesitant to post too much private info). You can email me: tylean .com. If you have any hesitation about who I am, I invite you to google me, so you know I’m not secretly GrantM, lol!

More soon! Thanks everyone!

48065 ▶▶ Bella, replying to TyLean, 13, #830 of 1199 🔗

I’m on the south coast and pretty limited with transport (no car) but I would be happy to meet. A lot of what you say makes sense but you talk about taking power back while you acknowledge what is being done to us is IMMENSE. You don’t exaggerate. So taking power back is also a HUGE ask. I am a creature who is used to isolation (live alone, work alone) but even I am noticing that some brief human contact is boosting my morale no end. This is psychological warfare, but because there aren’t body bags lining the streets people aren’t noticing. I can stay at home for ages quite happily but being under house arrest, although it amounts to the same thing practically, is an entirely different, insidious and belittling state of affairs.

48129 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Bella, 10, #831 of 1199 🔗

Indeed Bella. I also live alone (retired) and quite happy in normal times. But with lockdown conditions it is totally different. I have been going out all the time during lockdown for Tesco shopping and regular afternoon walks, just like normal – ignoring that fact that I am a ‘vulnerable’ over 70er. But having to queue outside Tesco and being guilty if I went out more than once a day makes it so much different. We have weekly church services on Zoom but it is not the same, you need to meet people in the flesh, it means so much to us singletons.

48161 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to davews, 6, #832 of 1199 🔗

I shouldn’t feel guilty about going out more than once a day. At the height of this nonsense I was going out seven, eight times a day (more than I would normally) out of bloody mindedness. (After all what difference would it have made? More stupid reasoning.) And sitting where I shouldn’t sit. Never once saw a blue meanie. I mean, let’s face it, we have been had and people don’t get it.

48355 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bella, #833 of 1199 🔗

I am shropshire and have a car.

48257 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to TyLean, 3, #834 of 1199 🔗

Anyone in Yorkshire, look me up.
Or rather, just tell me in a post if you fancy a drinky poo
I’m a bit busy and broke to go further afield but locally yeah ofc

48271 ▶▶ Adam, replying to TyLean, 2, #835 of 1199 🔗

I’m up for meeting. Was in the process of extending my social circle and leaving my comfort zone, but lockdown put paid to that. Am near Basingstoke, but don’t mind travelling a bit.

48359 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TyLean, #836 of 1199 🔗

Would be lovely to meet you. Any sceptics here in London?

48393 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bart Simpson, #837 of 1199 🔗

Can get there, easily enough, what kind of venue would you favour? RA Friends room, V & A ditto?

48439 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bruno, 2, #838 of 1199 🔗

I’m boycotting museums and art galleries at the moment. A park would be OK with me.

48059 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #839 of 1199 🔗

This may be posted elsewhere but in case you haven’t seen it and this needs to be widely known:

https://notrickszone.com/2020/07/12/just-use-a-mouthwash-stupid-new-british-study-suggests-oral-rinsing-effective-against-covid-19-spread/

48138 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #840 of 1199 🔗

This is really fun, looks like you could get everyone back to work on the Tube if you ‘strongly advised’ them to have a good gargle with neat vodka as soon as they arrived. And then again before going home, and again after they got home. Could make a great excuse for mask refuseniks too, ‘ it’s OK officer, smell my breath, I’m using the medical alternative to kill the bugs’:
https://doi.org/10.1093/function/zqaa002
Can’t quite believe it’s not a spoof though, it’s Issue 1, Volume 1 of a glossy looking Oxford Journal but the researchers credited work for Boots the Chemists…

48148 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Nessimmersion, #841 of 1199 🔗

So we need to be offered hand sanitiser and then mouth wash to enter a shop now. My wife might spot an opportunity to save some money here!

48061 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 10, #842 of 1199 🔗

A photo from a workplace in Guatemala, taken from the Telegraph live feed.
comment image ?imwidth=1240

The dystopian future is here and is coming to a place near you soon.

48082 ▶▶ Prickly Thistle, replying to Howie59, 4, #843 of 1199 🔗

Not much air circulation there. I bet it’s a breeding ground for disease.

48070 RonniC, replying to RonniC, 11, #844 of 1199 🔗

I live in mid Wales. On Thursday I did my usual weekly shop in my nearest Tesco. I would say that not more than four people were wearing masks in the store which had about 20 customers in total. Everyone kept to the prescribed distancing, nodded and smiled to each other and shopping went smoothly and pleasantly. I was unloading my trolley at the checkout when in came a woman — middle aged I would say — wearing a face mask. She took one look around and literally screamed (in a Brummie accent): ‘Why aren’t you wearing masks? You’ll kill us all. You’ll kill us all… Oh God, oh God.’ And she rushed out. What chance do we have when there’s people like that who seem to be in the majority even if not so extreme in their reactions? I just hope that Drakeford sticks to his guns as far as masks are concerned.

48280 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to RonniC, 3, #845 of 1199 🔗

At least she rushed out instead of making you all put up with her histrionics while you finished your shopping. Unless they just don’t understand risk at all (which I’d say is fairly likely anyway), I just don’t understand how people like that manage to pass on their clearly defective genes.

48361 ▶▶ annie, replying to RonniC, 2, #846 of 1199 🔗

I would have howled with laughter.

48071 Sam C, replying to Sam C, 10, #847 of 1199 🔗

All those going off to the seaside with the kids for a welcome break please take note: RNLI want everyone to attend lifeguarded beaches, they spent ages getting ready and people drowned whilst they were playing catch up. Only procedure change is around PPE and CPR. Aquatic rescue or paediatric CPR should include rescue breaths and if possible oxygen. RNLI have issued protocols and guidance to lifeguards to not give rescue breaths or oxygen. This is not the position of all lifeguards just the organisation. This means you or your child have a much reduced chance of survival from a drowning incident. Think about how many pennies you put in the rattled tin or ‘lifeboat’ on the counter of your local chippy. Write to them and complain, your life may depend on it. Would have been nice for them to publicise this dramatic downgrading of capability.

48212 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Sam C, 3, #848 of 1199 🔗

I’m at a loss for words.

48234 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam C, 9, #849 of 1199 🔗

I gave up contributing to the RNLI when they put that anal-retentive idiot management twat in charge who promptly “sacked” 2 volunteers for taking a saved from drowning victim to hospital in their own land rover as the NHS said it would be at least an hour before an ambulance could get to them.

Same ex-corporate idiots taking over all charities now.

48261 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Sam C, 4, #850 of 1199 🔗

A favourite photo of mine is a hunky lifeguard in a red onesie staring sternly out to sea wearing a face mask AND a visor and one of those daft plastic aprons.
Lifeguards and lifeboat men I know will just get on and do their jobs and ignore RNLI.

48360 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sam C, 1, #851 of 1199 🔗

Noble rescuers, so quick to save their own lives at the cost of yours.
It’ll look really good, won’t it, when one of them stands back and lets a child die?

48074 RickH, replying to RickH, 9, #852 of 1199 🔗

Just in case you’ve missed it, this Grauniad/Observer item flags up the latest in the Scary Fairy narrative, aimed at keeping up the programme of social control.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/11/revealed-20-areas-at-most-risk-of-local-lockdowns

Leicester was the prototype : just watch out for a performance near you.

(Anyone who can count will recognise the bollocks)

48580 ▶▶ Nel, replying to RickH, #853 of 1199 🔗

If they don’t want to be locked down they need to stop going for tests

48078 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #854 of 1199 🔗

Given that people already wear masks on public transport, there’s a delicious irony about this DT article.
They’re going to have to reassure us that it’s safe “out there”, while their other hand is telling us it isn’t, hence the need for masks.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/11/government-preparing-ease-restrictions-using-public-transport/
…. many people remain reluctant to return to their daily commute and are still following lockdown advice to avoid public transport unless absolutely necessary.Last week, the Department of Transport removed from its website the guidance that public transport should be avoided to prevent the spread of coronavirus. It continues to urge people to work from home wherever possible, consider “cycling and walking before using public transport”, and avoid rush hour travel.

…. One Whitehall source said: “It is costing a great deal of money to run all these train services with so few people on them.
“Different departments are looking at ways to ease in the message of avoiding public transport. ….There is some debate about how best to get the message across that the Government wants to allow more people to travel.”

It will be interesting to see what devious contradictory bollox they manage to come up with!

48091 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #855 of 1199 🔗

“….There is some debate about how best to get the message across that the Government wants to allow more people to travel.”

How about just being honest and explaining that we need to get more people travelling and that the risk from the virus is now very low? Why do they need to spend weeks working out how to do it?!

48093 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #856 of 1199 🔗

Because they have spent months deliberately pushing fear.

48143 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Steve Hayes, #857 of 1199 🔗

It was a rhetorical question, sadly I know the answer all too well…

48110 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #858 of 1199 🔗

Why?
Where do I start ………..?

48100 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #859 of 1199 🔗

One Whitehall source said: “It is costing a great deal of money to run all these train services with so few people on them.”

No surprise there.

48109 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #860 of 1199 🔗

Ironic after Thatcher’s policy to run down British Rail in order to sell it off cheap to Tory cronies.

48152 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, #861 of 1199 🔗

City trams here are often counted running with a single passenger. No biggy though, simply get a government grant of £9 million to keep them running.

48175 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Cheezilla, #862 of 1199 🔗

“It is costing a great deal of money to run all these train services with so few people on them.”

I always thought that was the British Rail corporate strategy and their motto was ‘Life would be great, if it wasn’t for the customer’

Mrs Thatcher was against the privatisation of the railways. That is why it only took place once Major took over…..and, as with so many other things, made a complete dog’s breakfast of it.

And now the railways have been renationalised because the government is really good at running things….or not really?

48384 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cheezilla, #863 of 1199 🔗

Are foreign state railways Tory cronies lol?

48079 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 19, #864 of 1199 🔗

I’m starting to realise what’s going on: we are being ruled by children.

There are no adults in the room making responsible decisions.

I wonder what would happen if we formed a cabinet of actual kids and see what they would do?

48097 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to mhcp, 13, #865 of 1199 🔗

No school. Ever.
Free sweets for all under 12. When we reach 12, we’ll extend it to 13. Then 14. 15. 16. 17. 18…
No fixed bed times.
No bath nights unless really stinky.
No green vegetables. Especially not sprouts.
Minimum pocket money £100 per week.

Not much different really, except there’s more zeroes on the real politicians’ pocket money.

48103 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, 2, #866 of 1199 🔗

Regarding statutory instruments, according to the Hansard Society there have been 133 so far related to Covid. https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk/publications/data/coronavirus-statutory-instruments-dashboard
We are being ruled by SIs now 🙁

48104 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to mhcp, 1, #867 of 1199 🔗

A lot better!

48158 ▶▶ Bella, replying to mhcp, 1, #868 of 1199 🔗

Dysfunctional children who stamp their feet until they get their own way.

48205 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to mhcp, 1, #869 of 1199 🔗

My children are more rational and responsible then this. We are being ruled by tyrants.

48087 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #870 of 1199 🔗

Has the Scottish Law/statute been found regarding mandatory wearing of facemasks in shops yet?

I believe the power is by way of a statutory instrument even though the holyrood parliament spoke of it as being law.

Legislation.gov.uk is exceptionally hard to navigate on a phone.

I did see that statutory instruments were passed on the 10th. Introduction to the instruments it says these measures have been brought in as they are seen* to be proportiate to the prevailing threat to people. *by MSPs.

Not found tge location of the text about face coverings in shops. Any pointers would be welcome. Thank you.

48101 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 5, #871 of 1199 🔗

Regarding statuary instruments, according to the Hansard Society there have been 133 so far related to Covid. https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk/publications/data/coronavirus-statutory-instruments-dashboard
We are being ruled by SIs now 🙁

48135 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #872 of 1199 🔗

SIs not law Carrie yes.

48141 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, 2, #873 of 1199 🔗

Stat Instruments are law, enforceable by fines etc. As opposed to guidance, which isn’t.

48149 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bruno, 1, #874 of 1199 🔗

I thought statutory deals with legal matters. Law being a much more fundamental principle separate from arguably arbitrary matters.

The face covering in shops fines are based on the fining structure for antisocial behaviour. This is arbitrary human legal instrument. Not what I understand law to be.

For example:
For the purposes of these Regulations—

(a)the form of a fixed penalty notice,
(b)the effect of a fixed penalty notice, and
(c)the procedure that applies to a fixed penalty notice,
are the same as those that apply to a fixed penalty notice given under section 129(1) of the Antisocial Behaviour etc. (Scotland) Act 2004 F14, as provided for in sections 129 to 134 of that Act [F15and sections 226B and 226I of the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995]F16 , subject to the modifications in paragraph (7).

Law appears to have a foundation based in human decency and reason. This stuff isn’t that.

48226 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, 1, #875 of 1199 🔗

Why do you think a Statutory Instrument is not law? See:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/understanding-legislation

48241 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bruno, 1, #876 of 1199 🔗

Because
The ‘common law’ means the substantive law and procedural rules that have been created by the judges through the decisions in the cases they have heard. … Statute law, on the other hand, refers to law that has been created by Parliament in the form of legislation.
Is the first official definition I could find. Legal versus lawful.

Personally I would go further and say much of judicial law relies on maritime law which is to say legal or contrivance of state.

Certainly I’m not an expert, clearly so. But I’m clear fining a child (parents/guardian) for going into a shop without a mask, which is ultimately the senario we live with here, is not of common law.

It is an arbitrary contrivance with a fee/fine scale derived from unrelated statutes of antisocial behaviour. Why choose antisocial behaviour fining system, or another such as fines for speeding or unpaid tax?

Legal statutes are a separate thing from good common Law. Not to say statutes are all bad, but they can easily be badly constructed.

It’s not proportionate to cut oxygen and increase C02 in a person’s blood supply (x 5mil) while going about daily tasks to keep at bay Covid19. Nor is it just to impinge on our personal liberty to speak clearly and express ourselves visually.

The current official prevelance is of 19 new cases, 330* in hospital and 3 in ICU per 5 million reported today in Scotland. The forecast at the point of passing the amendment in the Scottish Parliament did not give reasonable concern for the economic impact to merit passing a bill that causes five million people to alter behaviours traditions and customs.

Common law does not get us to this point whereas Statute law does. MSPs unqualified and fed a diet of fear briefings by got-at and/or compromised experts quickly corrupt the statute books.

At least that’s how I see it.

*yes 33 is at it again.

48378 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, 1, #877 of 1199 🔗

You might have got confused. Case law is the set of rulings from court judgements that set precedents for how the law has been interpreted and applied in certain cases. The link above does explain how it works, I recommend it. Until someone goes to court on some aspect of interpreting the Scots Stat Instrument, there is no case law on the subject.

48106 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #878 of 1199 🔗

This is interesting re SIs: A Statutory Instrument may come into effect as soon as it has been made. However, there is a convention – ‘the 21-day rule’ – by which, wherever possible, a Statutory Instrument which is subject to the negative procedure is laid before Parliament at least 21 calendar days before it comes into effect.
Of the 112 Coronavirus-related Statutory Instruments laid before the UK Parliament which are subject to the negative procedure, 89 breach the 21-day rule.
If an SI comes into effect before it is even laid before Parliament, a requirement is triggered under Section 4 of the Statutory Instruments Act 1946 that the government formally notify the Speakers of the two Houses of this fact and explain the need for such urgency. (This applies to both ‘made negative’ and ‘made affirmative’ SIs.) Such notifications are recorded in the official record of parliamentary proceedings.
So far, ten Coronavirus-related SIs have come into effect before they were laid before Parliament and have had notifications recorded accordingly…

48111 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Basics, 2, #879 of 1199 🔗

Here is a link to the Scottish Coronavirus Regulations from March, incorporating into the text ALL the (I think 7) sets of amending regulations up to the latest made on 9 July which brings in the shop shit. Have a read and post any specific questions and I will do my best to help.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/103/contents

The Regulations are made in the form of Statutory Instruments, a type of subordinate legislation made under powers contained in the parent Act (Coronavirus Scotland Act 2020, I will add a link to that). The Regulations can be challenged in the courts by way of judicial review but (although legally qualified) I’m not an expert on that.

48131 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 1, #880 of 1199 🔗

Thank you greatly Gillian. Your expertise has saved me considerable frustration. I am most grateful to you.

The ‘proportionate restrictions’ to mitigate against harm to the people is obviously one area of suspicion. I need to understand the debate and the data that informed that debate. I suspect the data is not published.

Anyway, I shall read the links you’ve kindly replied with Gillian.

48133 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #881 of 1199 🔗

To be clear not wearing in shops is Illegal and not unlawful. To my understanding.

48139 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 1, #882 of 1199 🔗

The relevant text lifted from The Health Protection (Coronavirus) (Restrictions) (Scotland) Regulations 2020 from legislation.gov.uk

F5Requirement to wear a face covering in a shop
6B.—(1) Except to the extent that a defence would be available under regulation 8(4), no person may use a shop without wearing a face covering.

(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply to the wearing of a face covering—

(a)by a child who is under the age of 5,
(b)by a constable acting in the course of their duty,
(c)by an emergency responder (other than a constable) acting in their capacity as an emergency responder,
(d)by a person responsible for a shop, or an employee of that person, where—
(i)there is a partition between the person or employee and members of the public, or
(ii)a distance of at least two metres is maintained between the person or employee and members of the public.
(3) For the purposes of paragraph (1)—

(a)a person uses a shop when—
(i)they are in a shop whether or not for the purposes of shopping, and
(ii)the shop, or part of the shop, is open to the public,
(b)a person who is responsible for a shop includes the owner, proprietor, tenant and manager of that shop.
(4) In this regulation, “shop” means a building, room or other indoor establishment used for the retail sale or hire of goods or services but does not include—

(a)restaurants, including restaurants and dining rooms in hotels or members’ clubs,
(b)cafes, including workplace canteens,
(c)bars, including bars in hotels or members’ clubs,
(d)public houses,
(e)banks, building societies, credit unions, short-term loan providers, savings clubs, cash points and undertakings which by way of business operate a currency exchange office, transmit money (or any representation of money) by any means or cash cheques which are made payable to customers.]

48155 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, 9, #883 of 1199 🔗

And since there are so many exceptions then masks in other places will do no bloody good whatsoever..How stupid do they think we are? Well very stupid in most cases. And they’re right. The sheep are convinced they are protecting you and turn on non-wearers..

48169 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, 5, #884 of 1199 🔗

100% bella. It is truly lunatic.

48171 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella, 4, #885 of 1199 🔗

Convinced you ought to be protecting them .
Not much turn, I should imagine. Remember ‘being savaged by a dead sheep’?

48116 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Basics, 2, #886 of 1199 🔗

Here is a link to the parent Act which contains the powers to make the regulations:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2020/7/contents

48127 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 3, #887 of 1199 🔗

‘where the person cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—
(i)
because of any physical or mental illness or impairment or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010),
(ii)
without severe distress,’

This is from section 8, f4(d).

I suggest that all of us serfs in Sturgeon land memorise this and have it to hand in the event of a challenge.

I’m going to wait for my badge to be delivered before attempting to run the gauntlet in any local shops-apart from the green grocer.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/103/contents

It can be found at the link above, which Gillian kindly posted.

Thank you Gillian.

As to the Dear Leader’s masks for the foreseeable future, this is scientifically illiterate, socially damaging and control creep dressed up as Elf and Safety.

Enough already!

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/103/contents

48170 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 8, #888 of 1199 🔗

Masks on 6 year olds is proportionate. No. It. Is. Not.

Let me know when the protests are I am going.

48186 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 5, #889 of 1199 🔗

So, we can do the hokey cokey in a club, mix and mingle in a cafe-subject to daft distancing -and behave badly in a bank, but without the need to do the masquerade.

Who the hell wrote this piece of mind numbing horse shit, with its many exclusions?

Milo Minderbender is alive and well and directing operations at Holyrood.

And the masquerade will not, apparently be imposed in England.

Perhaps we should organise a sceptics’ shopping expedition south of the border.

48095 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 16, #890 of 1199 🔗

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5799786/coronavirus-scotland-glasgow-shop-no-face-masks/

I think this Glaswegian shopkeeper should win Toby’s treasured ‘sceptic of the week’ trophy.

48107 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #891 of 1199 🔗

“This is the store policy for our employees safety.”

Now that’s a GOOD boss!

I was hoping Glasgow would rediscover its teeth at some point!

48130 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #892 of 1199 🔗

I turned that into a post here . I wish everyone thought like that person.

48119 Mimi, replying to Mimi, 19, #893 of 1199 🔗

I’m with Tony – I can’t get used to the idea of wearing a mask in public. I’ve completely stopped doing the family shopping because it makes me feel panicky.

There are no scientific studies on universal mask-wearing by the general public. Therefore, we have no idea whether they do more harm than good. This should’ve been studied carefully before issuing edicts.

48125 ▶▶ Tony, replying to Mimi, 4, #894 of 1199 🔗

As someone has pointed out on here, they wear masks in China and it didn’t stop it there!

48151 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Mimi, 10, #895 of 1199 🔗

I’m with you and Tony on this one. The only shop I’ll go into is the garage to pay for fuel for my car. All the so called safety measures like one way systems, queuing, masks etc make me feel extremely anxious.

48124 Lockdown Truth, 3, #896 of 1199 🔗

Is the BBC testing permanent social distancing propaganda?

48145 Cbird, replying to Cbird, 8, #897 of 1199 🔗

This is what Andrew Lawrence thinks about masks. Brilliant. One of his best:

https://youtu.be/ViKDf6UIXl0

48147 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Cbird, 5, #898 of 1199 🔗

I think this is possibly the best one yet – absolutely spot on!

48154 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to Edna, 3, #899 of 1199 🔗

Yes, really cheered me up 👍

48160 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Edna, 5, #900 of 1199 🔗

He helps me to maintain a semblance of sanity. And he’s very funny.

48176 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cbird, 1, #901 of 1199 🔗

Brilliant

48156 Andrew Werner, replying to Andrew Werner, 13, #902 of 1199 🔗

I’ve just created a petition on change.org – Relaxed about Coronavirus – UK https://www.change.org/relaxedaboutcorona19

Please sign and share!

The UK government and its devolved branches are restricting people’s freedom on an unprecedented scale, in the name of protecting us from the Corona19 virus. Having endured around four months of virtual house arrest and an unprecedented shutdown of public life (announced as necessary to ‘flatten the curve’ [of hospital admissions]), we are now being forced to obey further and permanent draconian rules and restrictions including wearing masks, restrictions on our right of assembly, worship in churches, sing, visit pubs, restaurants, sports & leisure centres, use cash and so on. In a further invasion of our privacy, we are expected to give our personal contact details wherever we go. Many people are concerned that the next stages will include mandatory vaccination and the abolishment of cash, tracking our every transaction….

48448 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Andrew Werner, #903 of 1199 🔗

Signed!

48182 WillemKoppenhol, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 4, #904 of 1199 🔗

Estonia is the anti-corona hysteria holiday place to be?

More corona hysteria from the Dutch State News Agency: one of their correspondents/journalists, normally working in Belgium, went to Estonia. Turns out the Estonians have a very stable personality. The correspondent however has an obvious case of corona phobia…

Here are some examples (computer translation) from the text:

Traveling in corona time: ‘The old normal feels uncomfortable in Estonia’

On a terrace in Tallinn where we have lunch, the waitress places me at a table that I find way too close to another table with guests. It’s quiet so I’m getting a new place. Estonia is relatively less affected by Covid-19. 69 people have died and the number of infections per 100,000 inhabitants is half that in the Netherlands. There have been several days when no new infections were registered.

Note: this is I think wrong. Estonia has 69 deaths total, which is 52 per million. The Netherlands has 358 per million. I thinkEstonia’s rate is not half, it’s 1/7th… Am I right here or am I making a mistake?

Article continues:
The rest of Estonia has also had a lockdown light, with restaurants/pubs that had to close at 22:00, but was otherwise open as usual. Schools closed and national borders were also closed. Stickers on the floor remind us of the time when two meters had to be kept. Nobody still does that.
(…)
Mouth masks? Not here
Now I live in Belgium myself. That country was hit relatively hard and although the figures are also going down there, the government decided this weekend to require masks in all shops, museums, places of worship and cinemas. In any case, mouth masks were ubiquitous, even outside. When I come to the Netherlands, I find the lack of it a relief. But in Estonia I suddenly find it intimidating, that old normal.
(…)
Corona is over here, and I wonder how hard it will be to switch up again on a second wave. And is that perhaps the value of those mouth masks that suddenly become mandatory in Belgium: you keep the attention there.
With that in mind, I say goodbye to the ecologists. It is only when I get back in the car that I realize that I shook hands with them. I am shocked. I dive into the hand gel in my bag. And that also frightens me. The old and the new normal compete for control over my behavior.

So, the Dutch press is just as mental as the British press. Especially that stupid reasoning towards the end of “wearing a mouth mask is helping you to remain vigilant”. That’s the full-blown COVID-19 version of Stockholm syndrome! However, notice the one glimmer of hope: he does still yearn for the real (not old!) normal.

Oh, and if Toby Young is still looking for a place to go on holiday: if you choose the right moment with regards to weather, Estonia might be the place to be

Original link in Dutch , or a computer translation through Google. Copyright photo by NOS/Sander van Hoorn

48221 ▶▶ Basics, replying to WillemKoppenhol, 2, #905 of 1199 🔗

Good post. Insane journalist. Very revealing and blatant in to see the translated words. I haven’t yet heard their old normal being dismissed in such obviously mind moukding ways here in UK yet. But that is possibly because i avoid as much as I can of their propaganda. A considerable thank you for posting, you’ve really added some colour.

Imagine being allowed to drive a car with a mind as full of daffodils and zebras as the Dutch journalist.

48188 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 22, #906 of 1199 🔗

Face masks is just the hare being run today by the government to district attention from the real story

The real story is the mass manslaughter by the NHS of people in care homes (I know the NHS don’t run the care homes but they forced infected patients on the care homes, killing tens of thousands as a result)

48220 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cecil B, #907 of 1199 🔗

That stopped April 15th. Subsequent FoI requests to some hospital trusts suggest that c. 20% of those tested before a proposed discharge were actually infected, of whom all were asymptomatic at the time (wouldn’t have been considered for discharge otherwise). Studies suggest that agency workers moving from home to home were also significant disease vectors. It’s a moot point how much difference it made.
Just as important seems to have been management within the home, so those which isolated, kept all staff on site, were able to keep deaths low. But it was mismanaged by government, by failure to advise, prepare and supply homes with tests, PPE etc.

48238 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Bruno, 1, #908 of 1199 🔗

The tests were poor quality so many may very well have carried the infection without testing positive.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/exclusive-nhs-using-flawed-covid-19-test-missing-25-of-positives/

Added to which, rushing aged patients out of hospital with, in many cases, no definite bed for them elsewhere no doubt caused any number of excess deaths both with and without covid 19.

‘… rapid covid-19 testing was not available to help clinicians assess the risks to care homes.”

https://www.hsj.co.uk/policy-and-regulation/discharges-to-care-homes-increased-year-on-year-during-critical-period/7027765.article

48198 steve, #909 of 1199 🔗

While they may find you a “vaccine” to assuage your panty wetting fears, you will find there is no cure for stupid. So you are screwed.

48203 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to Cbird, #911 of 1199 🔗

Oops, sorry, old article from June. Just saw it on twitter and misread the date. Don’t know how to delete

48217 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cbird, #912 of 1199 🔗

Had a feeling of deja vu when reading that then saw it was dated 17 June. Think I saw recently the number is up from 90 to around 133.

48444 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, #913 of 1199 🔗
48201 Cbird, replying to Cbird, 2, #914 of 1199 🔗

.

48206 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Cbird, 4, #915 of 1199 🔗

So we have to organise and fight back. Question is, how?

48274 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Lockdown Truth, #917 of 1199 🔗

Thanks. Happy to lend my time where I can but don’t work in PR

48347 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Bella, #918 of 1199 🔗

Thanks for the offer.

What are your professional strengths?

48210 Bella Donna, 1, #919 of 1199 🔗

It was a photo opportunity, just another look at me I’m signalling my virtue!

48211 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 19, #920 of 1199 🔗

We have just returned from visiting my brother. Went to his local pub no masks, no one way arrows, no 2 mtr, in fact it was quite normal except for sanitiser by the doorway. Just perfect!

48222 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #921 of 1199 🔗

Was it a chain/brewery pub or fully independent?

48225 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bella Donna, #922 of 1199 🔗

Just the hand sanitiser to get rid of.

48228 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Bella Donna, 15, #923 of 1199 🔗

Been out on the bike, with the better half, to take her around some villages near where we are moving to soon. Stopped at a pub in a nice village, sunny afternoon , the garden was very full with people, no one wearing a mask everyone smiling and happy. The staff were unmasked, very happy & talkative. I went into the pub just to have a look. No barriers, no masks. You could get your drink at the bar. I chatted to the owner, within a foot of each other, to thank her for having not gone down the antisocial route. She replied that it’s her livelihood & wants the custom. She’d been to other pubs in the area who are fully into the madness & agreed with me that if they didn’t change their attitude they would be shut!
I thanked her again & told her I’d definitely be back. A thoroughly lovely experience!

48410 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to smileymiley, #924 of 1199 🔗

Sounds great, Miley. Name and location, or are you going to keep it all to yourselves ? 🙂

48219 WillemKoppenhol, 3, #925 of 1199 🔗

THE STATE FUCKS US, BUT DOESN’T PAY!

Sorry, couldn’t resist it, some news items are simply too good to be ignored.

Short text from Dutch State News : in Germany prostitutes are angry that they still can’t legally work due to German COVID-19 rules. The strange thing is that in both the Netherlands and Belgium prostitutes are hard at work and no, they haven’t turned out to be mass spreaders (sorry, really couldn’t resist it) of COVID-19. Yes, the German lust for order and rules is in more than just a Freudian sense pretty much “anal” these days.

So understandably the German prostitutes are angry. How normal is this new normal if even the oldest profession in the world, which has kept working under all historical circumstances including wartime (especially so one might add) can’t ply its trade…?

The very short text (original comes with video!) reads:

German sex workers protest against corona measures
Sex workers took to the streets in the German city of Hamburg. They demand reopening of the brothels. The sex workers had to resign in March because of the corona virus outbreak. Shops, restaurants and bars are open again, but sex workers are still not allowed to work.

Text in the screenshot taken from the video reads “ Der Staat fickt uns, aber zahlt nicht! ” which means “The state fucks us, but doesn’t pay!” Also note that the person in the video is NOT wearing a state approved mask! Time for a proper spanking. (Sorry, couldn’t stop myself there.)

Another slogan you can read (see 00:22 in the video) is “Bordellzimmer sind keine Massenveranstaltung” or “Brothel rooms are not mass events”. Which technically speaking is true, even though they are of course mass spreading events. (Okay, okay, I won’t do it again, I promise!)

48223 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 15, #926 of 1199 🔗

I have been in contact with Simon Dolan over the past couple of days.

Looks like he has put bits of the slave masks picture on his twitter today.

Brilliant, getting a lot of attention.

Go Simon.

48440 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #927 of 1199 🔗

I’m glad he has posted about the government’s latest data and DNA-gathering plan, ie to go door-knocking the population and offer people virus tests in their homes. Hope people refuse!

48227 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #928 of 1199 🔗

Hi. I may be mistaken but did somebody in government or maybe SAGE say masks on transport were just to make people FEEL safer so as to get them using public transport etc?

If you can remember if and who that was could you reply with a link?

Thanks

48232 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #929 of 1199 🔗

The PM said it, a month or more ago

48235 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Julian, #930 of 1199 🔗

Thanks

48352 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #931 of 1199 🔗

The government is still actively discouraging people from using public transport. Even tough everyone is wearing a mask and therefore protected from spreading the virus, if you get on a bus or train you’re taking up a 2 metre bubble and denying it to an essential worker.

48237 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 10, #932 of 1199 🔗

It does seem interesting that the pressure for mask wearing seems to be coming from the media and questionable “public surveys” rather than “following the science”. Is it now government policy to enact whatever is most popular, fed by twitter, Facebook, BBC and newspapers?

48242 ▶▶ MDH, replying to Polemon2, #933 of 1199 🔗

This has been the case since the beginning. Government “policy” has been entirely led by the media narrative. I have worked in print and internet media for 40 years and it was immediately plain to me that this was happening.

The damage has been incalculable. At present, I would be happy that justice had been served if all involved were reduced to a life of penury and remorse. But if my anger is raised further, I expect I will be among the crowds cheering when lampposts are repurposed.

My contempt for Johnson, Hancock, and their cohorts grows stronger by the day. I fear the day of reckoning. So should they.

48243 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Polemon2, 2, #934 of 1199 🔗

Of course it is. We have a populist government.

48249 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Poppy, 3, #935 of 1199 🔗

We have a government that manufactured consent and then claimed ‘It’s what people want.’

48343 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Poppy, 2, #936 of 1199 🔗

And, come October, they will be a very un-popular government!

48248 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Polemon2, #937 of 1199 🔗

https://masks4all.co/

https://www.masks4all.org.uk/

Co-Founder and leader: Jeremy Howard , Distinguished Research Scientist at USF; Founding Researcher at fast.ai; Member of the World Economic Forum’s Global AI Council

The World Economic Forum rears its ugly head yet again. They had a meet up in January, just before it kicked off in Europe. I followed this thread from the Swiss Policy Research site: https://swprs.org/

Here’s info on the Global AI Council.

https://venturebeat.com/2019/05/29/world-economic-forum-launches-global-ai-council-to-address-governance-gaps/

The Global AI Council will be cochaired by Microsoft president Brad Smith”

What does everyone reckon? Social Engineering on a global scale?

48253 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Polemon2, 2, #938 of 1199 🔗

Yep, that’s why we locked down in the first place.

48336 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Polemon2, #939 of 1199 🔗

Of course it is.
Otherwise, they would have stuck to the sensible but unfortunately by Vallance miscommunicated policy of managed, aka Swedish not Belarus style, herd immunity in the first place.
(Although Belarus is doing just as fine.)

48239 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 11, #940 of 1199 🔗

I like this one in The Telegraph live feed (my emphasis):

Continuing on the issue of face masks, here is a really interesting perspective from Rowland Kao, a professor of veterinary epidemiology and data science at the University of Edinburgh.
In a comment to the Science Media Centre, Prof Kao said that the importance of face masks will potentially rise as we move towards more regular inside gatherings. Here’s what he said:

“There is a considerable body of scientific evidence that indicate that wearing face masks can play a substantial role in reducing the transmission of Covid-19.

“In part, this is due to reducing the force with which droplets carrying virus from an infected person are projected, thereby reducing the distance of spread. Basic mechanical principles tell us that, in indoor spaces, where air is relatively still, this effect is even more important.

“As we move towards larger concentrations of people coming together in indoor spaces, and as the rules on social distancing become relaxed, use of face masks has a potentially even greater role to play in reducing transmission, thereby keeping infection numbers down, and the size of potential new outbreaks of Covid-19 small.”

I expect he draws his conclusions from that large body of research involving pigs, sheep and cattle wearing face masks.

48244 ▶▶ Tony, replying to Tenchy, 6, #941 of 1199 🔗

Yes, but that won’t stop Boris using it to make this nightmare come true – feeling bad about this again now, the media aren’t going to let this drop – they are determined to make it happen

48246 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tony, 6, #942 of 1199 🔗

Think about the Cummings affair how the press rumbled on with that. They do want the masks, but the issue is can they pass a weak law no one abides by? This would end their authority. Like you Tony I think it is a done deal but there is hope, even if passed people can then stand up – in ways actually presently they cannot.

A distraction is needed to give the press a new bone. Can’t someone tumble a statue or something.

48356 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, 3, #943 of 1199 🔗

It won’t happen in England. It’s a red herring. To distract us from Cummings’s proposals for sweeping reorganisations of the NHS, our defence capability, education and local government, (to amalgamate councils and achieve even greater London centric control).
A ploy which is being remarkably successful, judging by the commentary here.
Personally, the thought of this shower attempting any one of these things, even if they promised to lock Grayling and Lansley away in a cage for the duration, gives me goosebumps.

48370 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #944 of 1199 🔗

Perhaps another BLM protest is in order?

48383 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #945 of 1199 🔗

Burn Lousy Masks?

48254 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tony, 4, #946 of 1199 🔗

And we are determined to stop it happening. Chin up!

48266 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tony, 7, #947 of 1199 🔗

The media thought we were all going to die of AIDS, it eventually petered out. And after 9/11 we were all going to get bombed to misery. Went on for weeks and far less digital programming then.

48346 ▶▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Bella, 3, #948 of 1199 🔗

After 9/11 all sorts of new rules came in which have been kept in force to this day. Like having to unpack you bags and partially undress at airport security, having secret intelligence services taking over the job of the police, up to 42 days detention without charge, Prevent programmes in every school, ATCOs, and so on.
The Terrorism Threat Level has never gone below Substantial, no 3 on the scale, which means “an attack is likely”.
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels
The Covid Peri-O-Meter is based on the same scale and is never likely to go below 3 either.

48365 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tony, 1, #949 of 1199 🔗

Tony, you do sound as if you could use a break from the MSM. Go for a walk, meet some friends, do some DIY, read some books, etc. etc.

48373 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tony, 1, #950 of 1199 🔗

Try not to think about it too much. A lot can happen in a few weeks. Remember that it’s only been 3 odd months since we went into lockdown.

At the moment time feels like watching a kettle boiling but I have faith that sense will prevail.

48405 ▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Nobody2020, #951 of 1199 🔗

Dark thoughts are returning big time now, all this mask of all lobbing etc.
Looks like the dystopian future is here – don’t think I’m going to see tomorrow – all preparations have been made – I.ve got the gas cylinders, bag and pills. Ready to go now – just can’t see things getting better.

48434 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tony, #952 of 1199 🔗

Don’t do it Tony! Call someone..

48436 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Tony, #953 of 1199 🔗

We’ll try to fuck them up…wait to see how we do !

48463 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tony, #954 of 1199 🔗

Call 116 123, Samaritans, now.

48245 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 2, #955 of 1199 🔗

Vet.

Now, this doesn’t support your disgust nor mine, but it used to be the case that vets could do procedures to people but not vice versa. I am certsin that no longer stands true.

Is the vet talking out a sign of desperation? We hear of this growing concensus that health and science professionals have been incredibly and absolutely wrong about masks. To the point of allowing a pandemic to sweep around the world while actually routinely saying masks are rubbish – and here are the papers proving masks are no use to control influenza. Where are the same scientists now? We have no papers about how good masks are at stopping c19 but we do have a vet.

Do you know, I don’t think it wouldn’t take much to crumble these bullies.

48256 ▶▶ Lord Byron, replying to Tenchy, #956 of 1199 🔗

But it’s gone!!!!!! Aaaaggghhhhh!!!!

48259 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tenchy, 2, #957 of 1199 🔗

What the fuck has it got to do with a vet?

48371 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, #958 of 1199 🔗

Blah blah … masks …sheep . 🙂

48374 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to JohnB, 1, #959 of 1199 🔗

…Have you any drool? Yes sir, yes sir, 3 masks full.

48299 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 3, #960 of 1199 🔗

I think the best image for the uselessness of masks is that of trying to stop mosquitoes with a chain-link fence.

And then quote the infection rate within the population : 1 in c.5000 – FFS.

Anyone cowering in terror and wearing a mask with these fact in mind are quite welcome to all the self-induced knicker-wetting discomfort that they self-generate! But not the right to inflict it on the sane.

48366 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tenchy, #961 of 1199 🔗

There may be some evidence that masks have some effect but the evidence does not say they are necessary. There’s a very big difference between the 2.

The evidence suggests that driving at 1mph can reduce road accident deaths but it’s not necessary.

All they have to do is look at Sweden to see empirical evidence that mask wearing is not necessary or even the states in the USA that never locked down.

48438 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, #962 of 1199 🔗

Here in Sweden I was comforted this evening when an acquaintance of mine posted a collage on Facebook, of photos of people using crazy items as masks (in some cases totally covering their heads), and got responses commenting how crazy these people were. No one that responded to the post advocated that we wear masks here – phew!

48522 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Carrie, #963 of 1199 🔗

What’s the general concensus in Sweden on how other countries are dealing with the virus? Are people glad that they’re not having to argue about being forced to wear masks or getting locked in their homes like in Australia?

Just curious as to the Swedish perspective on the rest of the world.

48240 fiery, replying to fiery, 9, #964 of 1199 🔗

Can anyone on here help with some advice please. I’m a key worker in social care and have recently been informed that from next month the organisation I work for will be insisting all staff have a weekly swab test for Corvid 19 even if they are asymptomatic. This is the last thing I want and I’m wondering whether I have any rights at all to refuse this invasive and unnecessary test or whether refusal will result in a disciplinary and dismissal.

48290 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to fiery, 4, #965 of 1199 🔗

I assume this imposition is not in your contract of employment? If so, your employer could be on difficult ground. However, a common tactic, at least in industry, when they want to impose something on the staff (I’m thinking of drug testing, for example) is to issue a new contract of employment, and if you don’t sign it, they say that you’ve decided to leave the company. The vast majority of people accept this sleight of hand because it’s too much effort to take it to a tribunal. I suggest in the first instance you state that you are not happy with the proposal and what do they suggest – initially just get a feeling for what the lie of the land is.

48339 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to fiery, 3, #966 of 1199 🔗

You could try emailing your problem to the lawyers here:
laworfiction@gmail.com
See their website, laworfiction.com

48431 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bruno, 1, #967 of 1199 🔗

Or to Francis Hoar or Robin Tilbrook – Robin’s contact details usually appear at the bottom of all Toby’s posts here..

48247 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 9, #968 of 1199 🔗

took the day off on Friday to try some of the pubs in Soho. Quite relaxed,no masks and some were happy just to insist on a name and telephone number. Went to two Samuel Smiths pubs and no restrictions at all!
The only problem came when I tried to visit bars outside of the centre. At Clapham Junction I stopped off to visit Project Orange. This is a classic dive bar. Metal is the soundtrack here. They usually have a big screen showing a live concert from years gone by. So you would think with alternative lifestyle cred they would be a little relaxed with the guidelines. Sadly no. I was greeted at the entrance with a sign that said “no mask,no entry”. I went in to be greeted by someone in a visor who escorted me to a table. I ordered my drink but, as I was wearing a mask,he couldn’t understand me. Mask removed,stayed for one and moved on.
I know we have a section showing businesses that stayed open during the lockdown. Maybe we need a new section (especially for pubs,bars) for ones who are most zealously following the guidelines.

48258 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #969 of 1199 🔗

Do love a Samuel Smith pub, pub #2, how are people supposed to drink with a mask on?

48260 ▶▶ Basics, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #970 of 1199 🔗

Good points.

It’s new to them too so perhaps helping them be human in their service is a worth while occupation. Some need help but do get it.

48267 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Basics, 3, #971 of 1199 🔗

it will be interesting to follow as Clapham Junction has quite a few bars-once some bars break ranks like in Soho the customers will vote with their feet

48272 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to crimsonpirate, 8, #972 of 1199 🔗

I think for my part if I saw ‘no mask, no entry’, I’d be telling the bouncer ‘then your business has “no customer”‘.

48287 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #973 of 1199 🔗

I must be getting old. I wouldn’t dream of going anywhere where they need a bouncer!

48251 Hoppity, replying to Hoppity, 1, #975 of 1199 🔗

I’ve just been perusing the comments, and come up here to say that I think there’s a case for moving on, now, from the term ‘bed-wetter’. It’s becoming one of those words that causes the brane to stop thinking creatively. (And no, I haven’t got any bright ideas, as I write this, as to what it might be replaced with. Perhaps someone else here has?)

48252 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Hoppity, 1, #976 of 1199 🔗

Hysterical, if that’s a word and you spell it so.

48264 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Hoppity, #977 of 1199 🔗

What they are. ‘Remainers’.

48279 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to James Leary #KBF, 8, #978 of 1199 🔗

No. Don’t confuse the two issues. Not all lockdown sceptics are brexiteers!

48295 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Suitejb, 2, #979 of 1199 🔗

Precisely. In fact, the whole impetus of this nonsense comes from the Brexit Branch of the Tory Party!

48381 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to RickH, 1, #980 of 1199 🔗

The impetus for this nonsense comes from above our government. Did the brexit branch of the tory party manage to influence all western nations to follow the same suicidal path? Not a single MP has put up any real resistance – they are all culpable.

48282 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to James Leary #KBF, #981 of 1199 🔗

I was a Remainer thank you very much! Though not in a particularly over-zealous way, admittedly.

48269 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Hoppity, 6, #982 of 1199 🔗

I think the term suggests that those afflicted are reacting in an unreasonable and disproportionate manner to a small threat and blames the afflicted for their affliction.Yes, the threat does not justify the reaction, but that reaction has been induced by a dishonest government and media and the reaction is in proportion to the dishonest hype. We need to get these people to go beyond what they hear from the government and MSM and being rude about them doesn’t help with that.

48285 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Hoppity, 1, #983 of 1199 🔗

Well, it’s not because they’re wet, it’s because they trust the BBC and the rest of the MSM. They’ve never had any reason not to, as far as they know. Brexit ought to have shown them a reason, but apparently not. They don’t see any reason, therefore, to think for themselves.

So I call them ‘drones’.

48328 ▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to Mike Smith, #984 of 1199 🔗

Drones are powerful deadly weapons designed to rain down Hell Fire on people taking non essential walks in the Peak District, or the 7th and 8th person in your garden.

48294 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Hoppity, 1, #985 of 1199 🔗

A faintheart. A feeblemind. A trembloid.

48309 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Barney McGrew, #986 of 1199 🔗

No doubters
The unquestioning
Media munchers

48348 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Hoppity, 1, #987 of 1199 🔗

Could just call them Bedders, as in Sh*t the Bedders. Also a homophone of Betters.

48379 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Hoppity, #988 of 1199 🔗

I always thought “snowflake” was an apt description!

48397 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Hoppity, 1, #989 of 1199 🔗

I am not personally keen on that term, but I these are issues on which people feel strongly and I can understand the anger, and feel it myself.

But ideally one would want to focus on winning the battle. So is using that term helping us or not? I would say not. Consider the weak points of the “enemy”, the arguments they are more susceptible to.

We should be ruthless, and not get distracted by anger, but use it to fuel the honing of arguments.

48414 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Hoppity, #990 of 1199 🔗

Branch Covidians was the best one I heard

48545 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Hoppity, #991 of 1199 🔗

Scaredy-cats.

48600 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Hoppity, #992 of 1199 🔗

I have yet to check through comments beyond those immediately below to see what else (if anything) might have been suggested yesterday evening, but of the suggestions made immediately below, I personally would favour ‘the unquestioning’. It’s the most neutral. Being angry and frustrated about the situation, and trying to figure out what, if anything, might realistically be done about it, is one thing; sneering amongst ourselves at those who haven’t the wherewithal (for whatever reason, or combination of reasons) to ‘think for themselves’, question, scrutinise what they’re told by the government, the media, etc., is something altogether different — ‘unhelpful’.

48676 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Hoppity, #993 of 1199 🔗

Haven’t been able to edit the comment above. First and third lines: “below” should be “above”.

48255 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 2, #994 of 1199 🔗

So, if mask wearing in a shop in necessary, why not in a supermarket? Surely that is a shop?

48262 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Polemon2, 3, #995 of 1199 🔗

That’s how it is . Supermarkets are shops.

48263 annie, replying to annie, 12, #996 of 1199 🔗

My muse has gone all Scottish. Sorry about the spacing – gremlin in computer.

The Muse wishes it to be known that the below song is in no way aimed at the noble and dauntless Scots who frequent this site, or at any other opponent of the Poison Dwarfess:

Scots, bereft even of face,

Do you not feel your disgrace?

Severed from the human race,

Frightened to be free,

Lost to your ancestral fire,

Zombies wallowing in mire,

See approach your hearts’ desire:

Chains and slavery!

Why did Bruce and Wallace bleed?

Their example you don’t heed.

Each of you a broken reed,

Lost in misery.

How much lower can you sink?

You have lost the power to think,

Made your country’s name to stink –

Still you do not see.

Fawning on a crazy bitch,

Slaves to a demented witch,

She imposes with no hitch

What she wants to be:

Cowards grovelling at her feet,

Pride and courage in retreat,

Nothing left to make life sweet:

Just lie down and dee!

48341 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to annie, 2, #997 of 1199 🔗

Seems appropriate

48265 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 11, #998 of 1199 🔗

So – Gove has said that he thinks muzzles might not have to be mandated, and he thinks the good sense of the people will be enough.

This COULD mean that some of the spat bile that the very idea generated may have penetrated the government mask 😷 a tiny bit.

Or, it could mean Gove, by no means the thickest of the Cabinet, has sensed that Boris is losing the dressing room and is vulnerable. Is Gove on ‘manoeuvres’? Maybe he’s remembering the last time he stabbed Boris in the back and missed an artery. His aim could be better this time.

It’s a toss up which scenario is closer to the truth. I’m a bit tempted by the latter one.

48270 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to James Leary #KBF, 15, #999 of 1199 🔗

Since I have been alive every PM has been worse then the last. Gove certainly has his work cut out to maintain that tradition but I sense he might be up to the job.

48323 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #1000 of 1199 🔗

lol

48335 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #1001 of 1199 🔗

Ah, you young-un – I remember Heath (and Wilson)!

48367 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Saved To Death, #1002 of 1199 🔗

The first PM I was old enough to be aware of was Thatcher, so things have definitely improved but that’s not saying much!

48435 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to The Spingler, 4, #1003 of 1199 🔗

Thatcher was the first PM I was aware of to and while I spent most my life hearing how terrible she was the older I get and the more I learn the more it seems she was actually a better PM then anyone who followed.

48277 ▶▶ Tony, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #1004 of 1199 🔗

Do you really think Boris is losing things – no one from any party not even the 1922 committee seem to be able to do anything against Cummings (sorry I mean Boris).

48298 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #1005 of 1199 🔗

Simon Heffer wrote that during Boris’s illness, there was a “bitch-fight” in the cabinet. Is it possible that the divergent advice coming from government is due to a power struggle? Boris says we need to get back to work, Hancock discusses a “right” to work from home. Somebody was pushing for mandatory masks in shops, Gove appears on TV and leaves it to the individual. I don’t think Gove is trying to stab Boris in the back, I think it’s the Health Secretary who is over-reaching himself. Then again, it could just be incompetence.

48334 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bugle, 5, #1006 of 1199 🔗

Hancock is definitely displaying megalomaniac traits.

48427 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #1007 of 1199 🔗

This is the latest one, clearly aimed at harvesting more data and DNA: https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1282294106606252034?cxt=HHwWhMC9ncbsz8sjAAAA

48501 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, #1008 of 1199 🔗

Why are they STILL so obsessed with finding every single possible case in Leicester?!

48305 ▶▶ Basics, replying to James Leary #KBF, 10, #1009 of 1199 🔗

My money is still on masks coming in. It has been decided upon long ago as can so clearly be see by the theatrical process of fake interviews with mps actually saying they agree with the interviewer’s question that masks should be worn.. Yes masks were the plan and still are. If they put them in shops then other venues must follow. But, the ray of light is I see them concerned about the fact it is not policeable. They have to be certain the social shaming programme is fully in place. That is where they are at the moment.

Have people taken the idea they will be policing each other or not?

All of it is very far away from preventing a public health disaster during a plague. This is not about anything like that as we all know.

48306 ▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Basics, 2, #1010 of 1199 🔗

I fear you are right – night night time is coming for me, it’s still my line in the sand.

48363 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tony, 4, #1011 of 1199 🔗

You’re welcome here Tony anytime, get a break.

My thoughts about the depression of it all. I think I accept there are bastards in the world and rearranged my world to stop rubbing against them. I found certain changes can be made after accepting the unfairness we are born into. No point slogging on if their system is broken. So much fantastic adventure is still available to each of us just by truly switching off from them toying with our worlds. I say I’m pretty lucky in that I can find absolute pleasure in listening to the wind in leaves of trees, or watching a bird hop about – those kinds things make my day. Not everyone is the same but those simple things are all I need. Standing under the sky, my sky, on a good hill is special too.

48460 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Basics, #1012 of 1199 🔗

Thanks, I just got a new camera to try and give myself a purose – but things are looking real bad at the moment – masks4everone – OMG we are stuffed now. Don’t think I will see tomorrow the way I feel now!!!

48466 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tony, #1013 of 1199 🔗

Call 116 123, Samaritans, now.

48471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Bruno, #1014 of 1199 🔗

Past that sorry

48481 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tony, 1, #1015 of 1199 🔗

Just try it. Press the buttons, speak to them.

48468 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tony, #1016 of 1199 🔗

Are you in UK? Where?

48470 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Bruno, #1017 of 1199 🔗

Yes London

48513 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tony, #1018 of 1199 🔗

Come on Tony, you have a lot of allies here. Do you suffer from depression anyway? No shame in that.

48511 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tony, #1019 of 1199 🔗

There are 67 million people in the UK. Don’t think for a minute they’ll all be wearing masks. There are more dissenters than you think. And don’t believe the polls.

48519 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Bella, 1, #1020 of 1199 🔗

OK, decided to see what our beloved leader announces tomorrow, just so many sheeple wanting this utter crap

48523 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tony, #1021 of 1199 🔗

Here’s what I say. Give yourself time. Clearly it’s not good to be looking day to day as you are. So stop that – it changes nothing other than gice yourself a month with your camera. Set a target. One picture a day say, or a diary for the month. Not saying things will be better or worse. But by simply giving yourself time to focus on the challenge of creating a good photo to two can’t be bad. Photography is a great way to waste hpurs waiting and observing.
Trick is to say bugger it and give yourself time.

48325 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Basics, #1022 of 1199 🔗

Spot on

48429 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 3, #1023 of 1199 🔗

Mason Mills posted it would happen way back on 3rd April, joking (grrr) that masks would be a popular Christmas present…

48509 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, #1024 of 1199 🔗

But they still have to deal with people who are exempt for medical reasons. Imagine someone who drops dead because they are shamed for not wearing a mask because their condition was acute anxiety and a panic attack induced a coronary. That’ll put the cat amongst the pigeons.

48331 ▶▶ IanE, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #1025 of 1199 🔗

In-for-me, in-for-me!

48273 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 17, #1026 of 1199 🔗

For the past couple of days I’ve been mulling over how and when this farce is going to end and it got me thinking about the entertainment industry. Most of my leisure time is taken up either watching or playing sport or going to gigs.

At the moment sport is a waste of time, football, cricket, golf, horse racing, F1 etc all behind closed doors with no supporters. Since March me and the OH should of been to 6 gigs in various sized venue in either Edinburgh or Glasgow, they have all been re-scheduled to next year.

Now, I’m trying to be positive however I’ve pretty much written off this year but how can the entertainment and sporting industry allow venues to remain closed?

Surely there has to be a point in time where someone with enough say (head of MGM, Disney, Mick Jagger, Adele (yuk), Ed Sheeran (yuk), Michael Eavis, NBA, Premier League) say enough is enough we are losing money and the only way to move forward is to allow the fans back and get the fuck on with things.

I’m not even going to contemplate muzzles in gigs.

48278 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to stefarm, 10, #1027 of 1199 🔗

I’m praying they don’t force us dancers to wear them for dance competitions. The thought of trying to do a ballroom jive in a mask is not a pleasant thought!

Can see lots of competitors collapsing mid dance 🤦‍♀️

48289 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to ambwozere, 2, #1028 of 1199 🔗

can you do a paso doble whilst maintaining appropriate social distancing??

48291 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to mjr, 4, #1029 of 1199 🔗

Not totally no, well you could but I don’t personally see the point. At some comps they have kids sections already where they dance solo so no partner and it just looks so strange.

Ballroom and latin dance for me you need a partner as that’s the interaction between two people. If they bring in solo comps for adults then I’m not going.

48375 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to ambwozere, 2, #1030 of 1199 🔗

When does the next season of clapalong (ugh) Strictly start?

48281 Mike Smith, #1031 of 1199 🔗
48286 Tony, replying to Tony, 13, #1032 of 1199 🔗

I get the distinct feeling that as one thing is relaxed another 2 restrictions are put in place and we are literally being herded towards some very nasty dystopian future by being distracted. Really getting nervous about things, Boris really doesn’t want normal.

48315 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tony, 7, #1033 of 1199 🔗

Trying to dig themselves out of the hole they’ve put us all in without admitting they got it completely wrong.

48330 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tony, 1, #1034 of 1199 🔗

I start to relate to that.
Something else must be going on which they don’t tell us yet.
There a lot of detailed articles on the fundamental flaws of the PCR test available in German.
E.g. it’s a two part test, search and confirm, but most tests now seem to omit the much more important confirm part.
The cases in the slaughterhouses suggest susceptibility of the test to the harmless Coronaviruses in animals.
Lockdown critical doctors offered to run a more specific test on the positively tested there at their cost to check for this/rule it out, but the government of NRW refused, and even the billionaire owner Toennies, who is the most hated man in Germany at the moment, refused, although he could have been whitewashed hereby.

Add in what’s coming out on HCQ currently and the math on masks futility, and this smells far too strong.

48484 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1035 of 1199 🔗

I do like hearing all the random percentages different people like to claim the mask reduces the infection by – “10-20% for yourself but 80% reduction of infection to others” all the way down to a 5% benefit. Make up your minds!

48424 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tony, 1, #1036 of 1199 🔗

Seen Simon Dolan’s Twitter page wit the lates data and DNA-harvesting wheeze – they are now sending out people to do Covid tests in people’s homes… *very* important that people refuse this! https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1282294106606252034?cxt=HHwWhMC9ncbsz8sjAAAA

48508 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Tony, #1037 of 1199 🔗

Yeah, but a lot of people do and we are many and they are few. Stand up, stand up, stand up for your rights as the great BM said.

48543 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Tony, #1038 of 1199 🔗

Boris was heavily hinting mandatory masks a couple of days ago, but Gove seems to have backed off and is placing more emphasis on persuasion. Sounds like there’s a bit of a split in cabinet. And the body representing independent shops is distinctly cool, saying mandatory masks will put off some customers. Maybe we’ll escape the horror.
Theory 1: the government has been badly advised that customers are staying away because they’re scared of catching the virus, and if everyone wears masks they won’t be so scared.
Theory 2: “they” want to keep the crisis mood going at all costs, to soften people up for compulsory this, that & goodness knows what else in future.

48550 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Edward, #1039 of 1199 🔗

But Give was effectively implying if you don’t comply then we’ll make it mandatory.

48551 ▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Nel, #1040 of 1199 🔗

*Gove

48557 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Edward, #1041 of 1199 🔗

Could be either Theory 1 or 2.
What they don’t realise is how people are being put off going to the shops, pubs, hairdressers.

A friend of mine went to Manchester at the weekend. Most of the place was closed and boarded up.Tried 2 places to get a drink but had to book, finally sat down at one, pub forcing them to give full details including address and then to download an app to order from a comprehensive bar menu. Only accept cards (no tips for the staff then), they left after 25 minutes trying to order but not succeeding. Those who had stayed had all bought jugs of beers. They aren’t the only people I know who’ve said they aren’t going back until things normalise.
They left Manchester without going in to anywhere else because everything was too much hassle and they said they won’t be going back ever again and these are friends who used to go to the city a couple of times a week at least.

It seems to suit the hospitality industry for the moment to get customer details so they can use them for marketing efforts. BAD PLOY.

The CBI need to get together with businesses and protest against the measures, otherwise they’re all going to be out of jobs too if no business operating.

Another friend went to a hairdressers. She was given a mask, it broke, then another broke, they let her go maskless as probably too expensive otherwise. The person who did her hair is having to work 13 hour days to try and make the type of money they were making before in 7 to 8 hours. No cash so no tips either.

HOSPITALITY – WAKE UP TO THE FACT THAT YOU ARE ALIENATING YOUR CUSTOMERS

BUSINESSES GENERALLY NEED TO WAKE UP TO THE FACT THAT THEY WON’T BE IN BUSINESS IF THEY CONTINUE WITH THESE DRACONIAN MEASURES. I FOR ONE AIN’T GOING TO ANY OF THEM.

48296 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 5, #1042 of 1199 🔗

Just putting this out there. I read an article a couple of days ago, where the PM of New Zealand has now declared the country completely “Covid free”. They haven’t had a single positive test for two weeks. They have now relaxed all restrictions including anti-social distancing. Sounds too good to be true right? BUT…

– I’m aware NZ have completely shut their borders indefinitely so what does that mean for their tourism industry?
– What happens if a single positive carrier gets into the NZ. As they’ll have no herd immunity, could that start off a new spread of Covid within their country? Are they a ticking time-bomb waiting to happen?
– What would have happened if all countries had closed their borders immediately, but still allowed the indigenous population to live freely within their own nations?

48301 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RDawg, 8, #1043 of 1199 🔗

They’ve now set a precedent whereby they have to shut their borders as soon as somebody sneezes.

If a new virus appears somewhere on earth they have to shut down immediately.

48311 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to RDawg, 5, #1044 of 1199 🔗

AIUI, They will still have to quarantine new arrivals from overseas – so there will be no tourist industry.
They can’t afford to stop the quarantine as they have had so few cases that they’ve built no local immunity.
Or have I got this wrong?

48322 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to BTLnewbie, 9, #1045 of 1199 🔗

You are absolutely correct.
Potentially they may have to quarantine for a decade as a vaccine may never be invented.
Its why the Swedish approach and the UK approach before the bedwetters got control was correct for all.
https://softwaredevelopmentperestroika.wordpress.com/2020/07/06/sweden-is-back-to-normal/

48303 RickH, 16, #1046 of 1199 🔗

Just come back from a 2-way trip to eat with the wider family and have a walk.

The good news : the odd mask-wearer is the one who is looking a right berk. Keep up the non-compliance and make them feel odd!

48308 Guirme, replying to Guirme, 7, #1047 of 1199 🔗

I have been looking at the exemptions to mask wearing in Scotland. These include “banks, building societies………undertakings which by way of business operate a currency exchange office…” . This would mean that most Post Offices are exempt from the requirements. However near where I live one Post Office is situated in a newsagents (W H Smith) while another one is inside a Spar shop so is it mask free entry to these places? Then there is a nearby M&S which includes a currency exchange; it also has a cafe (another exemption) in the premises. so again does the mask wearing requirement apply?

Hurried legislation is often poor legislation and I reckon a good lawyer would rather enjoy these Regs.

48320 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Guirme, 2, #1048 of 1199 🔗

Great thoughts Guirme. Excellent. I will put that on my list of places to visit and question, never occured to me.

48480 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Guirme, 1, #1049 of 1199 🔗

Hopefully the laworfiction website’s lawyers will be on it!

48487 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Guirme, 2, #1050 of 1199 🔗

Well bollocks to them. If I have to wear a muzzle, I’ll bloody well make sure I wear it in the bank.

48491 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1051 of 1199 🔗

And dark glasses and a big hat pulled well down!

48310 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 5, #1052 of 1199 🔗

Just been out with OH to a country pub we often frequent, for a lovely relaxing meal. It felt more or less normal-no-one in masks and the owner and staff were keen to chat to us and welcome us back. The kitchen staff have to wear visors but those waiting on had chosen not to do so. The beer garden was full and except for fewer tables inside, it could have been any normal Sunday before lockdown-apart from the “toilet etiquette” that is.
On each table was a perspex holder containing a set of rules about using the toilet entitled “toilet etiquette”. It involved waiting to be told when you could enter the toilets, washing your hands first, sanitising the toilet and dispenser both before and after using the toilet, cleaning the handle and lock, then not touching anything again before you left the cubicle to go outside and wash your hands again. My OH was worried that he might forget one of the eight rules so would have to take them with him if he wanted to use the loo. I pointed out that these rules were aimed mainly at the ladies as they had no choice but to use a cubicle.
In all fairness, the owners are caught between a rock and a hard place in trying to make everyone feel safe, so although we had a good laugh between ourselves at how silly the whole thing was, we couldn’t fault their efforts. Needless to say, we both held on until we arrived home!

48321 ▶▶ Tony, replying to Margaret, 6, #1053 of 1199 🔗

How are they going to check that then – follow you in and watch??

48349 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Tony, 5, #1054 of 1199 🔗

My OH said something to that effect, albeit rather more crudely!

48489 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, #1055 of 1199 🔗

Surely if they’ve provided the info and you’ve had the opportunity to read it, duty will have been done, the EHO can tick the relevant box and everyone can relax.

48316 Guirme, replying to Guirme, 8, #1056 of 1199 🔗

When was the last time that a UK government mandated what you could or could not wear? My daughter reckons it was in the 18th century after the ’45 Jacobite uprising.

Could mask wearing be Sturgeons Culloden?

48317 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to Guirme, 4, #1057 of 1199 🔗

For those who haven’t worked it out wearing of the kilt was banned.

48475 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Guirme, #1058 of 1199 🔗

And bagpipes were considered an “offensive weapon”. But these laws didn’t last very long.

48318 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Guirme, #1059 of 1199 🔗

I guess the argument goes you wear a seat belt?

48344 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #1060 of 1199 🔗

Various paramilitary/terrorist group outfits have been banned quite recently.

48421 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 2, #1061 of 1199 🔗

The subtle difference is that you wear a seatbelt to protect yourself. We’re being told to wear a facemask to protect others.

A fairer comparison would be wearing a straight jacket.

48451 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1062 of 1199 🔗

I agree. Focused on mandatory wearing not purpose. Straight jackets is a good comparison.

48464 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #1063 of 1199 🔗

Not to protect other people..

48503 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, #1064 of 1199 🔗

Yeah, but I don’t have to get in a car. I do however have to go out to earn my living to buy food and pay for my shelter.

48420 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Guirme, 1, #1065 of 1199 🔗

..and yet Sturgeon wasn’t wearing a mask herself..

48473 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Guirme, #1066 of 1199 🔗

There is this: Motor Cycles (Wearing of Helmets) Regulations 1973 (S.I., 1973, No. 180), dated 7th February 1973 which came into force on 1st June 1973. A lone active sceptic named Fred Hill was sent to prison for non-compliance.

https://bit.ly/2ZnO0hL

48324 Ruth Sharpe, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 10, #1067 of 1199 🔗

Just been watching Grand Prix highlights on C4. The presentation of the trophies at the end was done by robots. As if what we’ve had so far is not bad enough, now it’s ‘I, Robot’. The idiocy of world governments in this lockdown has unleashed consequences that they will not be able to control.

48337 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 5, #1068 of 1199 🔗

Switch it off! Sorry! Just my instant reaction to the obvious tech virtue signalling. Thanks for posting its good to jeep up with how much there is to despise it the world! Will greta be popping up soon with a ‘how dare they’ scowl in the direction of robots and F1 in general?

48342 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 2, #1069 of 1199 🔗

Surely robots delivering the trophies fits in pretty well with F1 ?

Robot specs, lap times, cornering abilities. mpg, etc., will provide hours of endless fun for the petrol heads. 🙂

48467 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, #1070 of 1199 🔗

Saint Greta will be having conniptions if the robots are petrol-powered.

48326 matt, replying to matt, 33, #1071 of 1199 🔗

Cleverly posted this on yesterday’s page. Just sent this to the letters page of the spectator – more in hope than in expectation:

Sir,

In her otherwise excellent article, Kate Andrews refers to Covid turning “our world upside down.”

Not so. Our world has indeed been turned upside down, not by the virus itself but by the overreaction of many western governments, our own included. It may have been understandable at the end of March that any government would be panicked by public pressure and international example – not to mention the catastrophist modelling of certain academic bodies – into imposing quarantine on an entire population, but the continued obsession with the virus is irrational.

The science has become clearer over time and shows with high probability that we are not facing a virus that is epoch-defining in its lethality or transmissibility and yet our government persists in pretending otherwise and is ably assisted by continuing terror stories produced by the majority of media outlets, most notably the BBC and the Guardian. The economy can never return to normality while a proportion of the public are too scared to leave their houses and the rest would rather steer clear of the dystopian unpleasantness we are forced to endure in shops, cafes, pubs and restaurants. The encouragement to wear “face coverings” cannot help to give confidence, as it creates a sense of abnormality for all.

I fear that a “v-shaped” economic recovery is now beyond reach. Nonetheless, if Messrs Johnson and Sunak genuinely hope for a recovery of any kind, now is the time to begin admitting to the public that we have little to fear and that we can return to normal as long as we take care of those among us who are old or sick or both.

Yours faithfully,

48329 ▶▶ Tony, replying to matt, 3, #1072 of 1199 🔗

True but will never happen – they have already decided our fate.

48408 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tony, #1073 of 1199 🔗

But they lack the ability to organise the proverbial in a brewery, so I wouldn’t worry too much.

48502 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bruno, #1074 of 1199 🔗

Yes,,except they are the handled not the handlers. Look up the food chain to Bill Gates et al.

48457 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 1, #1075 of 1199 🔗

Very good letter. Hope it gets published.

48521 ▶▶ Old Mum, replying to matt, #1076 of 1199 🔗

A friend has just sent me this – not sure if it’s already been posted here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1qTi6GKIhU

48547 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Old Mum, 1, #1077 of 1199 🔗

It has, but no matter. Serious Germans, albeit in an unofficial capacity, an improvement on our less than competent lot.

48333 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #1078 of 1199 🔗

Gillian made a really strong point in reply to Hoppity’s questioning of the tag bed-wetter. Gillian made the point that being derogatory only serves to entrench positions. This has given me a genuine question I feel its worth asking.

How do mask wearing people see things going from now on? What are the expectations of people like GrantM for the future? Do they still feel that normal life will return?

I’m asking for opinions genuinely not wanting to sound mean towards people who have been scared silly by all this. The out look for people following the official line might be very bleak indeed if the have foresight.

Today I spoke with a distant friend who does not speak or read much English. I’ve tried to update them – but quite literally they had no idea really of the what and why. They are extremely depressed.

People laugh at the naive reaction of listeners to Orson Welles War of the Worlds. However reflecting on the guile and cunningby Welles to release such a disorientating scheme I have sympathy for those who were disturbed.

48368 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Basics, 9, #1079 of 1199 🔗

I think a lot of people have been so scared into thinking everyone is going to die that they don’t see the need to question what they’re being asked to do.

I also think that people still think it’s temporary and they have to do the anti social distancing, one way systems and masks etc for a period of time but life will go back to the old way.

And I think people believe that they are doing all of the above to save everyone else’s life. Whilst we should care about others lives we should not be made to be or feel 100% responsible for them all of the time. My opinion, others may have a different viewpoint.

48382 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to ambwozere, 5, #1080 of 1199 🔗

Thanks. I still find it hard to imagine people feeling we are all in so much peril. I do think you are right that people do feel that way. Surely, for most, that terror will wear off.

If we return to normal normal I would feel as though two separate worlds have been lived for this period of time.

I see that concious switch to make each of us feel responsonsible directly for killing others by not complying with the government lockdown was a strong and central component in their physcological operation against us.

I agree with your perception about caring but not guilt tripped or coerced into curtailing public life. We depend on each other – nin functioning lockdown isn’t deoending on each other.

48497 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, 1, #1081 of 1199 🔗

How about all these virtue-signalling caring people who make unnecessary trips in their cars contributing to premature deaths. Ban all cars I say.

48385 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to ambwozere, 16, #1082 of 1199 🔗

Amb, I tend to agree with you when you say a lot of people think this current situation is temporary. Just listen to the radio or watch TV and you really wouldn’t know what’s going on outside.Adverts still offer great things,TV presenters are still ‘happy clappy’, Amazon will still deliver (as will most high-street chains even though their shops are shut),despite a bit of a blip to start with, Tesco’s shelves are full even though you have to follow silly one way systems, I still get emails telling me of cheap flights and holidays etc. etc.

Now if it had been p*ssing down for the past 100+ days, internet had disappeared, you weren’t getting paid to sit on your arse and you had to walk miles to find bread, I think people would be a bit more inquisitive as too whether we are being sold a pup or not…just a thought

48395 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to T. Prince, 9, #1083 of 1199 🔗

I don’t think lockdown would have been possible pre internet.

48455 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 1, #1084 of 1199 🔗

Not sure it’s possible now. Not long term anyway. They couldn’t even manage it in a prison.

48419 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ambwozere, 2, #1085 of 1199 🔗

Yes, agree, people think every rule is a) temporary and b) that they’re selfish if they don’t go along with it..

48477 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #1086 of 1199 🔗

I suspect THEY think we’re selfish if WE don’t go along with it!

48494 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to ambwozere, 2, #1087 of 1199 🔗

Same principle applies to vaccines and it’s false. If vaccines work then it shouldn’t bother anyone else that I don’t get vaccinated. If masks work same principle applies – don’t understand why people don’t get this. I used to get furious with people who wanted other’s kids to be banned from school if they weren’t vaccinated. When I pointed out that that would imply that vaccines can’t be very effective then they went apocalyptic. You can’t educate people because no-one wants to be divested of their opinion.

48500 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, #1088 of 1199 🔗

On that vaccinate me to save who point – what is the logic of that? Doctors have explained it to me, I’ve read the concept of all requiring vaccines for them to be effective, but what is the logic?!

48377 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Basics, 8, #1089 of 1199 🔗

I think a lot of people are relishing the situation and would love it to continue. This is the most exciting thing that’s happened to them since Danny got blown up on Emmerdale (I invented that but you know what I mean). There’s been a lot of self important snitching, reporting of visits to supermarkets where nobody was sticking to the one way system, asserting that schools shouldn’t open because ‘it’s too soon’.
I live in a small seaside town, now inundated by tourists, so the permanently worried have been able to ratchet up the hysteria about ‘the rules’.

48389 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to bluemoon, 5, #1090 of 1199 🔗

This is the most exciting thing that’s happened to them….”
I think there’s a lot of truth in this. Odd, as you’d think people would rather believe good news than bad.
There are a lot of seemingly dumb or odd people in the world. Who knew?

48437 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 1, #1091 of 1199 🔗

For sure some are dumb and some are odd. But the root cause is that they’re unevolved.

One of the upsides of this bollox is that it gives them a large number of opportunities to evolve.

48456 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 1, #1092 of 1199 🔗

Nothing wrong with being odd. It’s the well-meaning who are the dangerous ones.

48390 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to bluemoon, 2, #1093 of 1199 🔗

It’s one to tell the grandchildren. The year the world made huge sacrifices by doing nothing in particular and wearing masks to save the world. That’s why my grandchildren I am telling you this from inside a plastic bubble.

48391 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to bluemoon, #1094 of 1199 🔗

I’ve been lucky to escape the lockdown enthusiasts! Not sure why that is actually! Only one bemasked selfie coming to me through contacts!

Thats another angle though I’ve not thought about – this does play into the narc phenomenon. As you say become king and queen of the lockdown and virtue signal the heck out of things.

Done with cynicism or with real fear?

48454 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Basics, 3, #1095 of 1199 🔗

Neither, IMO! Simply that the routine of lives has been altered, different roles have had to be assumed. Change can be exciting, no thinking or reasoning needed. Start a food bank, deliver meals to the shut ins, sew masks, feel important.

48479 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to bluemoon, #1096 of 1199 🔗

Good chat. You’ve explained the sewing machine and box of old rags set up on a city stoop. Actually make your own mask inintiative going on. Its so alien to me, but now I understand some possible reasoning.

48526 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to bluemoon, #1097 of 1199 🔗

YES…. all people with no lives who love drama.

48396 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 5, #1098 of 1199 🔗

As strange as it may seem, I think a lot of people are going along with it precisely because there is very little danger to them. They will just get on with life and justify it to themselves as just a minor inconvenience because that’s really all it is to them.

48404 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1099 of 1199 🔗

I have felt that about some people I’ve encountered. No threat level percieved just getting on with whatever they told to do. Not ‘sheep’ just not upset by either the virus or the measures. I found these people had means of employment unchanged.

48418 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Basics, 7, #1100 of 1199 🔗

Its odd as I’m still working, have been throughout in public sector further education so I’m on my full salary, working from home etc and I probably should be over the moon with what the government has done.

But luckily I have a brain and am rather independent minded so I’m not good at being told what to do without a very good reason.

Bring back normal life before I go insane please.

48462 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to ambwozere, 2, #1101 of 1199 🔗

My employers learned years ago not to saddle me with inane stupidities or idiots who assumed they were my boss but actually weren’t. They also discovered (much to my own surprise, as I’ve long considered myself to be a misanthrope) that I’m very good with people new to the job. They also know I’m not a rule taker for the sake of things. I know what I have to do, I know that my boss dishes out the work, and do what’s dished out to the best of my ability. Somehow we seem to work all right together.

48402 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Basics, 4, #1102 of 1199 🔗

I think it’s also because most people believe that “science” means experts publishing a paper and then it’s true.

They don’t take time to look at what the scientific method is, that it allows highly hypothetical work to sit right alongside heavily empirical, evidence based testing and verification. Because as long as your method is consistent to the assumptions made it is valid scientifically.

Publishing a paper means that it was deemed good enough to enter the discussion, not that it is correct in the sense that real people think correct is. It’s got a long way to go and may not get there at all.

The media are silent about it. Politicians are silent about it. Even look at what happened with Neil Ferguson’s model that was ripped apart by actual software testers. It might be good for hypothetical play but it is dangerously unethcial to apply this to the real world.

Yet that’s what happens. People are blind to this because they believe the mountain to climb to “disprove” the experts is too large. But the burdern of proof is on the claimant.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And models or studies are NOT evidence.

48416 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to mhcp, 1, #1103 of 1199 🔗

People don’t seem to think about *which* scientists are being used by the government, and why, and if those scientists might have an agenda, something to gain from coming to the ‘scientific’ conclusions they do..

48496 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #1104 of 1199 🔗

Science is science is science! For an example see brian cox programmes .. totally impenetrable. A reputation for being wonderful, but I think a disastorous communicator.

Comprehesion is not possible and so critically thinking to discuss isn’t possible, and yet I believe people know right or wrong about a lot of what these experts say.

48488 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mhcp, #1105 of 1199 🔗

I see science as an elite field and that it is not common among the general population to have a grasp on. Who’s fault that is would be a long conversation. But the result is this unquestioning religious-like quality described briefly by ‘the science’.

48544 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to mhcp, 1, #1106 of 1199 🔗

You hit the nail on the head when you say extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The government has introduced a draconian lockdown where the economy has been shut down and basic activities we take for granted eg seeing family and friends have been criminalized. The justification deserves to come under scrutiny. How does the characteristics of the coronavirus justify the lockdown eg the mode of transmission, how infectious the disease is, the fatality rate, the severity of symptoms. Where is the scientific research to back up claims. It is argued asymptomatic carriers can spread the disease. Where is the evidence to support this? What is the justification for closing businesses? For instance, in hotels guests stay in separate rooms and don’t mix.

The majority are not willing to ask questions.

48338 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 34, #1107 of 1199 🔗

So we are sceptical about the lockdown, and we seem to have investigated the issue more than most people. Why? What is it about our 15% of the population that makes us different from the remaining 85%? I’d really like to know.

I suspect it’s something to do with ‘critical thinking’. Not raw intelligence or IQ which, it seems to me, can be remarkably shallow, but something to do with taking an idea further and exploring the possibilities in depth. Maybe very slowly – in my case.

I think we can see freedom ebbing away before our eyes, but many ‘intelligent’ people can’t. We probably all have friends and relatives that we thought we knew, but have been shocked to find are fully Covid-compliant. At one time I would have assumed that they had made a mistake: I could ask them “Have you thought about how long this will go on for? How long do you think would be acceptable?” and they might answer and/or begin to realise that something was awry. But I no longer think it is the case. I’m not even sure that if the government told them they would have to carry on wearing masks and staying in their houses for ten years, that they would object. Or whether they would recall dimly that the original aim was “Flatten the curve for three weeks”…

I am at a loss to explain it. It is much more frightening than the idea of a government overstepping its limits, where at least the population can make its feelings known. When the population itself effectively demands strict punishment from a government that has given itself emergency powers, there is nothing any of us can do about it.

48345 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1108 of 1199 🔗

Spot on.

48350 ▶▶ Tony, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #1109 of 1199 🔗

Unfortunately you are right, we are being “herded” to the new future and the resistance (us) are being warn down bit by bit. There is no going back now, and I can see no way out. Only two choices – put up with it or …..

48358 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tony, 13, #1110 of 1199 🔗

I think there’s an old Jewish proverb – whenever you have to choose between two alternatives, chose the third.

48351 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Barney McGrew, #1111 of 1199 🔗

Intelligence, curiosity, wisdom. Genuine wisdom is a rare thing, one of the reasons I like Morgan Freeman so much, a wise man – watch his Oford Union appearance. His response to being asked about being African American is great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFKlbYeXBQ8

DavidC

48353 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1112 of 1199 🔗

It’s puzzling
There’s probably no easy answer, but we can try to chip away at people’s fixed ideas
It’s a very difficult time but I think we should try to stay sane and be patient
Or go mad and rebel

48415 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 2, #1113 of 1199 🔗

I think our best technique is to point out the illogicalities of the various rules in a non-threatening, almost jokey way..less confrontational and might make people think..

48490 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, 3, #1114 of 1199 🔗

People don’t want to think. Nor do they want to change their mind because that would mean admitting they were wrong. And they would rather live in emotional penury than admit they were wrong. Look at the government.

48394 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1115 of 1199 🔗

Barney agree. Call it ‘critical thinking’ or jut plain old ‘curiosity’ like why would anyone want to lobby for everyone on the planet be forced to wear masks?

“Interestingly, the demand for a worldwide obligation to wear masks is led by a lobby group called “masks4all” (masks for all), which was founded by a “young leader” of the Davos forum”.

https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/

48406 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #1116 of 1199 🔗

I find it scary that people won’t question what’s going on and woe betide you if you’re sceptical about it and actually dare to have a different opinion. It’s like by having a different opinion on lockdown, masks etc that you’re suddenly condemning the entire population to death.

It’s so utterly ridiculous now and needs to be stopped. Though I’ve no idea how you do stop it?

48423 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to ambwozere, #1117 of 1199 🔗

I totally agree! Perhaps we should start a lobby group for nomasksatall.com…

48492 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #1118 of 1199 🔗

I know people who didn’t seem fussed at the thought that the government could tell them not to see their own families and elderly relatives indefinitely. That’s what shocked me most, that they would just happily sit back and potentially never see them again, under the guise of “saving” them.

In terms of what makes the 15% different, I think being a natural contrarian is a good starting point – that drive to question and argue against everything, which isn’t actually always a good thing!

48535 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1119 of 1199 🔗

I have never understood people who slavishly support the lockdown without questioning it.

48539 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, #1120 of 1199 🔗

I think being a natural contrarian is a good starting point – that drive to question and argue against everything, which isn’t actually always a good thing!

Oh yes it is !!

48340 RDawg, 21, #1121 of 1199 🔗

Interesting comparison today between two rival coffee chains in Winchester.

Costa – the number of arrows outdoors all pointing in different directions was comical. Wish I’d taken a photo. When I went inside, the seating area was closed off. They had huge Perspex screens stretching to the ceiling, similar to the security glass that tellers sit behind in banks. When I spoke to the girl behind the counter, she couldn’t hear me through the Perspex. I gave up. Ridiculous!

Nero – A couple of token Perspex screens on the counter, both small and not overwhelming. Friendly server who smiled and spoke to me like a human being. Their seating area was open. I had a laugh with the girl serving me, about the arrow system on the floor. Their arrows actually made sense and were much more subtle.

Obviously I disagree with all of this, but it’s interesting the huge variation between brands on interpreting how to make their businesses “Covid-secure” vs a welcoming environment, customers will actually want to come back to.

48354 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1122 of 1199 🔗

Johnson&co can do anything illiberal they want, as they don’t have to fear losing voters who are upset about that to any of the even more illiberal parties left of them.
I do hope anti-Lockdown, pro common sense, truly free speech and citizens rights parties do spring up eventually, but I won’t hold my breath and in FPTP UK they face a lost cause anyway.

Add in a bit of FOMO and hedging/backside covering in case infections do go up again, at least half the Tory voters being Corona bedwetters too now, and that the government are quite happy to see any/more economic damage this year to make Brexit look less worse/better next year, and the mandatory mask wearing chicanery sadly looks like a certainty.

48387 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1123 of 1199 🔗

True, though even with FPTP UKIP and then the Brexit Party frightened the Tories into a referendum and then into backing Brexit.

48364 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 14, #1124 of 1199 🔗

Wearing masks is NOT without opportunity costs in the form of increased health risks for the wearer, that us being neglected here.

The asymptomatic positive person case has been debunked recently.

The (weak) trials called ‘science’ that did show efficacy ignore the reality of mostly sloppy wearing which reduces it significantly.

The virus is much smaller than the gaps in the fabric and will therefore go through anyway.
All the trials showed was that the aerosols with the virus might fly a bit less far, that’s it.

If you add in the low infection rates, the low probability to meet someone infected, the even lower one to meet him closely, and the much lower one to meet him at the distance the aerosol flew less than without a mask, the mathematical folly, and true reason for wishing them to be worn, becomes clear.

It’s like demanding that all people in a car must wear fireproof padded suits and a helmet, to prevent a dozen otherwise occurring deaths per year.

48411 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #1125 of 1199 🔗

‘It’s like demanding that all people in a car must wear fireproof padded suits and a helmet, to prevent a dozen otherwise occurring deaths per year.’ – Good comparison, that shows how ridiculous wearing a mask is,,

48417 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Carrie, 5, #1126 of 1199 🔗

Had a similar ‘on another discussion’ when someone said we should wear a mask even if it saved one life. I asked has he now locked his car in the garage in case he hits someone stood at a bus stop.he replied that he took ‘safety precautions’ by wearing a seat belt….!!??

48380 James007, replying to James007, 11, #1127 of 1199 🔗

I understand that A-level and GCSE grades are estimated by teachers this year.
If this has been the case for me, my grades in most subjects including Maths, Science and English would have all been a couple of points down at least. I think many students will wonder what might have been, had they been allowed to sit the exams they had spent a couple of years preparing for.

48388 ▶▶ Judith Day, replying to James007, 2, #1128 of 1199 🔗

The 4 exam boards found that teachers had ‘overestimated ‘, not underestimated, the majority of grades; resulting in the need to bring them down .

48398 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to James007, 1, #1129 of 1199 🔗

They are to be allowed to sit them if they feel hard done by.

48392 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 5, #1130 of 1199 🔗

Now why would anyone want to lobby for everyone on the planet be forced to wear masks?

“Interestingly, the demand for a worldwide obligation to wear masks is led by a lobby group called “masks4all” (masks for all), which was founded by a “young leader” of the Davos forum”.

48401 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to T. Prince, 1, #1131 of 1199 🔗

From the Mask for All site:

About Us:
#Masks4All is an all-volunteer org that started and powered the movement for people and Governments to follow the overwhelming scientific evidence that shows we need to wear homemade masks in public to slow COVID-19.
Now that this is widely accepted as a fact by Government, news, and health leaders, we’re focused on getting masks to be required across the U.S. and the world.”

Jeremy Howard, Co-Founder & Leader
Distinguished Research Scientist at USF; Founding Researcher at fast.ai; Member of the World Economic Forum’s Global AI Council”

And if you check out the WEF’s Global AI Council website…

The Global AI Council will be cochaired by Microsoft president Brad Smith and Dr. Kai-Fu Lee, CEO of Sinovation Ventures and former president of Google China. “

48403 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1132 of 1199 🔗

Well, well, what a surprise – not!

48413 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Carrie, 2, #1133 of 1199 🔗

There’s a UK version too…

masks4all.org.uk

Sign the petition created by Dr Wei Chi to call on the UK government to bring mandatory mask laws to the UK. “



48425 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tony, replying to Mr Dee, 10, #1134 of 1199 🔗

Just sent them a foul email

48533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Tony, #1135 of 1199 🔗

Good! Hope you’re okay

48432 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #1136 of 1199 🔗

Have you seen the make up of the group?

XR Activist
A staunch climate and environmental activist
A long-term, politically engaged representative
A digital activist using her background in digital marketing to campaign for real societal and political change.

Nothing at all to do with masks then….

48442 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to T. Prince, 4, #1137 of 1199 🔗

Sounds like the makeup of the company responsible for the dodgy data used in the HCQ publications in Lancet that were retracted. One of them was a porn star if I remember correctly.

48474 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nobody2020, #1138 of 1199 🔗

Same circus, different clowns…..

48446 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to T. Prince, 2, #1139 of 1199 🔗

“Because there’s now a global consensus and the science behind masks limiting COVID-19 spread is almost universally accepted as a fact , this science page is unlikely to be updated frequently going forward.”

Sounds familiar…?

48504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1140 of 1199 🔗

“Stay at home! Wearing masks shouldn’t make you go outside of your house more than necessary. All the official guidelines still apply”

Our Mission

masks4all.org.uk

48520 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1141 of 1199 🔗

The science is settled…

48510 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Mr Dee, #1142 of 1199 🔗

IT’S NOT DANGEROUS AND IT’S GONE!!!!

FFS!!!!

48409 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1143 of 1199 🔗

And on the Masks for All site, check out the photo of David Keating, President of the Institute for Free Speech… A picture is worth a thousand words!

48443 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1144 of 1199 🔗

Can’t even get photos of them wearing real masks, all photoshopped

48447 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1145 of 1199 🔗

Spotted that too. Human race at its worst on display in those photographs.

48412 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #1146 of 1199 🔗

Has Gate’s grubby little paw prints all over it………

48450 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to T. Prince, 2, #1147 of 1199 🔗

Of course – did you see the link to Microsoft as well? “The Global AI Council will be cochaired by Microsoft president Brad Smith and Dr. Kai-Fu Lee, CEO of Sinovation Ventures and former president of Google China. “

48426 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1148 of 1199 🔗

Makes me want to puke. I have no issue with these people being disappeared.

Who thinks they have a reasinable right to want each human to wear a mask.

Related
For anyone interested canadian Amazing Polly gives an amazing history of Eugenics and what happened to that movement post ww2 in her latest well researched video on youtube.

48505 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Basics, #1149 of 1199 🔗

It’s not about masks.

“Stay at home! Wearing masks shouldn’t make you go outside of your house more than necessary. All the official guidelines still apply”

Our Mission

masks4all.org.uk

48514 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to T. Prince, 1, #1150 of 1199 🔗

I don’t fear that group at all. But I will say those people are extremely dangerous. More than happy to fight them. Lose or not. There is a bunch of anti human dangers. Positively laughing at their arrogance is the least we all can do. I’ve cirulated as wide as I’m able. Lift the lid off their little plan. Sturgeon looks stupid with these guys in the background. Has boris been got at be these clingons?

48428 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to T. Prince, #1151 of 1199 🔗

The founder is clearly a really serious scientist:
https://mobile.twitter.com/PetrLudwig/status/1255428783798190086

48449 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Bruno, #1152 of 1199 🔗

I was about to tweet “piss off!” at that but decided i don’t want trolls after me…

48478 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Bruno, 1, #1153 of 1199 🔗

I wouldn’t even pee on him if he was on fire…..

48783 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bruno, #1154 of 1199 🔗

“Petr Ludwig #Masks4All Retweeted
Cam Woodsum #Masks4All #TestAndTrace
@CamWoodsum
·
24 Apr
#Masks4All has been shared 260,000 times over the last 30 days and has reached 1.1B people. 30 days ago, ~10 countries recommended masks, now the world almost universally agrees they work, 50+ countries have made them MANDATORY and 8/10 of the most powerful countries recommend.”

We should all be very afraid.

48453 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to T. Prince, 1, #1155 of 1199 🔗

Masks4plebsnotcelebs would be more accurate.

48459 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to T. Prince, 3, #1156 of 1199 🔗

comment image ?itok=iQKfQFWN&v=1581748522

48469 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #1157 of 1199 🔗

If you put a plastic bag over your head and tape it tightly around your neck you will not contaminate anyone. That is a fact!

48482 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1158 of 1199 🔗

Ha ha ha that’s funny until you realise it’s probably real!

48486 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to T. Prince, 1, #1159 of 1199 🔗

It’s a new family sit com: “Meet the Bubbles”…

48506 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1160 of 1199 🔗

Are you still able to edit this out, not helpful to some here?

48485 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1161 of 1199 🔗

Hong Kongers arrive in UK to start their new life.
“Wish we’d bloody stayed in Hong Kong,” grumbled one.

48476 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to T. Prince, 2, #1162 of 1199 🔗

Fake science. Fake photos. Fake emotion. Probably put the website together from a yacht in the Med or Caribbean.

48507 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to OKUK, 1, #1163 of 1199 🔗

It’s not about masks.

“Stay at home! Wearing masks shouldn’t make you go outside of your house more than necessary. All the official guidelines still apply”

Our Mission

masks4all.org.uk

48518 ▶▶ Nel, replying to T. Prince, 1, #1164 of 1199 🔗

Davos is where the World Economic Forum meet annually.

And what a surprise they were one of the sponsors for Event 201 – planning for the Plandemic which took place in October last year.

https://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/about

48531 ▶▶ ianric, replying to T. Prince, 1, #1165 of 1199 🔗

We now have the coronavirus industrial complex as many companies benefit from the current situation eg manufacturer of masks, perspex screens, sanitizers, disinfectants. In addition during lockdown companies benefit if their competitors are out of business. For instance, supermarkets may get increased alcohol sales if pubs can’t open. If companies benefit from the coronavirus, they may lobby governments. A company like Amazon and supermarkets could lobby the government to impose lockdown as it prevents competitors from operating.

48400 Azoumi, 2, #1166 of 1199 🔗

I’m a key worker and need to use PPE (mask, gloves and approns) at certain times in my work; I also work with health staff. My question is, why, seemingly, is no one challenging how unhealthy it is to wear masks? There is evidence that is non-Covid related for this! I have also been told by health staff (nurses) as well as, like you, done my own research, leading me to believe that wearing masks for a longer than necessary, makes things worse. What I have not heard the govt. and all the other so called experts etc. talk about is how to “safely” dispose of used PPE. We have been instructed that it has to be removed in a certain sequence, avoid touching it at all costs, then bag it for disposal. When I asked “where” I was to then put the bag of used, potentially infected. PPE, I was told “service users home bins or your car to take home” and put in my bin. When I am leaving a ward, the PPE is put into hospital incinerator bags. So, I wonder why all this mask wearing makes people feel any safer because if you have come into contact with some infectious person and it is already on you and your mask, you’re going to take it home with you anyway! Too much BS if you ask me!

48441 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1167 of 1199 🔗

Wearing a mask is akin to wearing a gun.

My gun protects you, your gun protects me. Neither of us know when the gun will be needed, if ever.

A fair comparison?

48452 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #1168 of 1199 🔗

No. Complete and utter rubbish. Your filthy face rag endangers both you and me.

48472 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1169 of 1199 🔗

You serious? Protects me against what exactly?

48483 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to T. Prince, 6, #1170 of 1199 🔗

The vast majority of mask wearers are constantly fiddling with them and so are transferring pathogens from the mouth-nose area to their fingers,whether gloved or not it doesn’t matter.

48499 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to OKUK, 2, #1171 of 1199 🔗

It’s been said many times before but why now?

49110 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to T. Prince, #1172 of 1199 🔗

Exactly.. Probably to keep us in fear till they have finished making enough vaccines to start a mass vaccination roll-out..

48498 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1173 of 1199 🔗

Only if your gun and my gun had no bullets,so no one was protected.

48515 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1174 of 1199 🔗

Well that’s the point isn’t it. The argument that guns protect people is contentious and highly specific to circumstances. Much the same way that masks are being argued that they protect everyone.

48524 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1175 of 1199 🔗

It was a silly comparison. Gun usage is discrete. Mask usage is not. You are always using your mask while you have it over your mouth and nose. You are not always using a gun when you have it i.n a holster on your person. As soon as you put a mask on it starts collecting pathogens. Moreover the warm humid and sugary environment of the mask is perfect for the rapid growth of pathogens The sugar comes from your saliva

48548 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to OKUK, #1176 of 1199 🔗

So you’re agreeing with me.

48555 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, #1177 of 1199 🔗

If you were being ironic please attach irony quotes in future.

48559 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to OKUK, #1178 of 1199 🔗

Sorry I can tell from the responses that I probably should have put some sort of explanation in my original post to make it clearer what I was trying to say.

48604 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nobody2020, #1179 of 1199 🔗

What gets to me,with all this mask wearing propaganda that we are being fed at the moment,is that it is the opposite of what we were told by the government and science at the start.Have people no memory?
It makes me appreciate the genius of Orwell
Oceania is at war with Eurasia.Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia

48461 JohnB, 7, #1180 of 1199 🔗

Sunday afternoon trip to Chichester. Lovely weather, city quite busy, maybe 10% masked.

Turner’s Pies – ignored arrows, no masks/sanitiser, big Perspex between staff/customers was all. Pies fantastic !

Nero – no masks/sanitiser. Perspex screen. All fine, but card payment only. Needed caffeine, so guiltily complied. 🙁

Montezuma Chocolates – staff visored up, £8 pound for 80g chocs (!!). Decided my wife deserved them, so stumped up. Cards only they said. No thanks we said and left.

TKMaxx – staff visored but otherwise normal. Sanitiser offered entering and leaving. Maybe 30-40% of customers masked here. Cash taken.

Cathedral – closed. Chickenshits.

Bishop’s Palace Gardens – wonderful spot, recommended for a visit ! Mixture of tree, grass, shrubs, flowers, formal, country garden, and old city walls. Did not see a single mask in here.

Ooh, and the public toilets were open.

48465 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 1, #1181 of 1199 🔗

ITV News tonight, Like all the MSM, downplaying links between Covid spread and mass immigration. They report on lockdown of a farm with 200 workers but failed, to mention they are nearly all East European migrants. Similar approach was adopted re spread of Covid in slaughterhouses.

48493 ▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, -2, #1182 of 1199 🔗

“downplaying links between Covid spread and mass immigration”

I am against mass immigration – I don’t like our countryside being filled up with houses – but I can see no connection whatever between mass immigration and covid spread.

The vast majority of immigrants arrived here long before cv19.

48495 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to John P, 1, #1183 of 1199 🔗

I seem to recall that they flew in a couple of plane loads in the middle of lockdown…..

48512 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 1, #1184 of 1199 🔗

It’s not mass immigration per se necessarily (although I believe illegal Chinese work gangs in Italy Spain and UK have played a part in its lightning spread) – but with mass immigration goes a lot of multi occupied accommodation with often several peple sleeping in one room, often poor health care and poor working conditions that favour virus spread.

49109 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, #1185 of 1199 🔗

In Italy there were a large number of Chinese workers in the leather factories, who all went ‘home’ to China at Christmas and then came back to Italy, bringing the virus with them..

48529 Cambridge N, 1, #1186 of 1199 🔗

Trip to National Trust today. Had to book in advance for parking. Only late slots available. On arriving found only two hours before they lock the car park at 4pm. WHY? Does COVID prowl on balmy summer evenings perhaps? The refreshment kiosk shut at 3. COVID starts to attack people drinking tea at 3.05, you see. Groovy lines, Karen notices, and arrows everywhere. Shop shut. Why, exactly? Toilets limited.

Meanwhile, the head of the NT in England doesn’t seem that bothered, IMNSVHO, about nonsensical rules to limit people’s enjoyment and so continue to trash NT income which is undergoing a catastrophic shortfall. No hurry, it seems. She wrote in The Telegraph in May: ““We estimate that our losses could amount to £200m this year.”

48540 OKUK, 1, #1187 of 1199 🔗

Boris, the Boy in the Blue Suit, should be asked “And when did you last meet your nation’s needs?” The ” Man in the Mask” photo was unforgiveable and never will be forgiven. To use one of Boris’s classical allusions, it’s as if Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon and then decided it was safer going back to the other side. I am afraid Boris has made himself the object of real ridicule as opposed to BBC-confected ridicule we had grown used to.

48546 Basics, replying to Basics, #1188 of 1199 🔗

What is the official government line on c19 antibodies ‘fading’ in time? I understand Tcells are more important. But there was considerable talk of antibodies ‘not lasting’. No evidence of reinfections but it was a claim they made. What became of that story, does anybody know?

48549 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, #1189 of 1199 🔗

I saw something about that today! There is so much info out there and most of it contradictory or mutually exclusive. I am guessing that immunity function is relative to rate of mutation as with cold viruses and flu.

48552 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, #1190 of 1199 🔗

It’s a story that conveniently went AWOL Always suspicious.

48774 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Basics, #1191 of 1199 🔗

Antibodies will fade into the background if the body doesn’t encounter the same disease again, and may fall enough to require a boost at some point.
If the CV19 virus mutates enough that the body doesn’t recognise it again, you’ll get another immune response, and possi fall ill, as we do with a regular cold.
Most people don’t get the flu more than once in their life, even though there are different strains that appear each year. They might get a much milder form instead.

Regarding this particular virus, I suspect that the “scientists” don’t know enough yet to predict what will happen with our antibodies. It’s only been around a matter of months and it’s impossible to tell. What we’re hearing is speculation. They don’t yet really know.

48846 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, #1192 of 1199 🔗

It’s the King’s College, London study:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.09.20148429v1

48554 OKUK, replying to OKUK, #1193 of 1199 🔗

I make my regular call to Toby to establish a Free Citizens Party that will take on the PC globalist free speech haters, the mandatory mask mafia and the divisive Far Left who deface the Cenotaph and statues of our national heroes like Churchill. People say Toby’s too busy with the FSU to be able to devote that much time to a new party – well the FSU won’t necessary if there is an effective political party standing up for free speech. It could be an all digital party. We need a broad party that will bring together people like Douglas Murray, Julia Hartley-Brewer, Allison Pears on, Trevor Philips, Rod Liddle, Claire Fox and Brenden O’Neil.

48703 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to OKUK, 1, #1194 of 1199 🔗

The FSU is fighting for individuals on a case-by-case basis who have been no-platformed and cancelled and have just lost their jobs, are facing expulsion, etc. It is effectively filling the gap of “actual” unions that are failing their members. Those people can’t wait for an election that – quite frankly – will never win any power. (How many seats does the Brexit Party or UKIP have?) It’s a major divestment of time (to the tune of a full time job) for 100’s of people to start a new party and actually do something with it. There are dozens – possibly hundreds – of parties in the UK. Most of them, you have never heard of. Only a tiny minority have ever won a seat.

In any case, someone else is already doing this: https://www.keepbritainfree.com/ He has offered to pay the fees for anyone willing to run in the next election.

48763 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to TyLean, #1195 of 1199 🔗

“Keep Britain Free is a new movement representing the millions of people who want to think for themselves and take responsibility for their own lives.

We are not a political party. We are a group of independent thinkers who seek to influence politicians come polling day.”

The issue that I see now is that there’s little to distinguish between Labour and the Tories, leaving many voters without any credible alternative to vote for. There is now a gap for a conservative party, with an emphasis on freedom of speech, etc. UKIP may have had only one seat in Parliament, but 4 million votes put enough pressure on the Tories to give us the Brexit referendum. Voting is the only way to exert enough pressure on any of the parties to change tack. The BxP also gave both main parties a good kicking in the EU election, enough to make sure that Brexit happened. We have to do the same again now to get back our free speech, and our other freedoms. A pressure group is not enough.

48614 Basics, replying to Basics, #1196 of 1199 🔗

Hidden away in a new article tackling ‘English’ daring to transport c19 into Scotland is a tiny bit about Scottish Care home deaths. The astute will notice the mechanisms of SNP at work. They go like this, yes Sotland care homes have been a disater, we did put c19 into homes killing many, but The English did it more, worse and betterer.

From the gusrdian:

“The Scottish government has been criticised for its policy early in the pandemic of discharging hospital patients into care homes without being tested for coronavirus. Almost half (46%) of Covid-19 deaths in Scotland have been connected to care homes, according to the National Records of Scotland.

“Asked about her government’s record, Sturgeon said she regretted and apologised for every death from Covid-19. But she added: “What I absolutely refute is that there was some particular problem in Scotland or that we didn’t take great care.”

“She said excess deaths in care homes were lower in Scotland than in England, with Scotland attributing more of them to coronavirus.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/12/no-immediate-plan-to-quarantine-english-visitors-says-sturgeon

48733 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Basics, #1197 of 1199 🔗

She could also point to Governor Cuomo’s (Democrat) record in New York as well, or Governor Whitmer (Democrat) in Michigan, to their success in killing off so many of their elderly in care homes.
Funny how the Left everywhere had followed the same policy, with the same results.
What does that say about Hancock and PHE??

48617 Basics, #1198 of 1199 🔗

UK test numbers overstated by 2 million.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08kdnbp

48731 Lms23, 1, #1199 of 1199 🔗

I’ve just read some of the comments below Toby’s article in the Telegraph.
Oh, dear.
It seems that many people are choosing to believe that the virus is far more deadly than it is, and that the lockdown and destruction of our economy was worth it, and probably should continue indefinitely.
We’re all doomed, doomed, I tell you….

Users

177 users made 1,185 comments today.

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19Ned of the Hills03, 6, 4, 6
19Cbird0, 0, 1, 8, 3, 5, 0, 2
18Simon Dutton18, 0
18Moomin2, 5, 6, 5
18Cambridge N1, 2, 10, 10, 4
16janis pennance16
16Yawnyaman15, 1
16Polemon2410, 2
15Adam13, 2
14Edna3, 2, 4, 5
14DoesDimSyniad2, 0, 1, 0, 3, 8
14ianric5, 3, 3, 1, 1, 1
13Andrew Werner13
13davews3, 10
12Brian12
12Splotchy12
12crimsonpirate9, 3
12Old Bill3, 4, 5
12DavidC1, 10, 1, 0
11Hester11
11James00711
11RonniC11
11James Leary #KBF0, 11
11Ruth Sharpe1, 10
11Colin MacDonald3, 1, 7
11Mark II5, 2, 4
11Hoppity1, 2, 3, 0, 4, 0, 1, 0, 0
10Howie5910
10Ian210
10John Lilburne10
10Liam10
10Sam C10
10richard riewer3, 0, 0, 5, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
9fiery9
9BTLnewbie4, 5
8Biker8
8Brian D8
8Darryl8
8GetaGrip8
8Hoppy Uniatz8
8Poppy8
8Suitejb8
8Invunche26
8Snake Oil Pussy3, 1, 1, 3, 0
7JohnB7
7Letmeout7
7arfurmo3, 4
7guy1535, 2
6DJC6
6Matthew Day6
6Rob Tyson6
6Tyneside Tigress6
6Prickly Thistle2, 4
5Mike Smith03, 0, 1, 1
4DocRC4
4Miss Truth-Seeker4
4TheBluePill4
4They dont like it up 'em1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0
3Christopher3
3Doctor Y3
3Suze Burtenshaw3
3A leaf1, 2
3Rosemarie1, 2
2BJJ2
2Ethelred the Unready2
2Judith Day2
2Richardm2
2Sam Vimes2
2Jonathan Palmer2, 0
2Youth_Unheard1, 1
2Azoumi20, 0
1DressageRider1
1james1
1Lurker1
1Martin Spencer1
1NickR1
1SteveT1
1Victoria1
1steve01
1Tim Bidie0, 1
1gina0, 1, 0
1Lms2310, 0, 0, 0, 0
0Andy C0
0Anon0
0Catherine1230
0Che Strazio0
0GLT0
0Kath Andrews0
0Lord Byron0
0Mario0
0MDH0
0Old Mum0
0ScooBieDee0
0Sue0
0tim51650
0Edward0, 0
-32Cristi.Neagu0, -32

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