2020-07-13

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/13/latest-news-72/
Published2020-07-13T00:13:12
Last updated2020-07-13T09:09:21
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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48556 Sally, replying to Sally, 6, #1 of 1305 🔗

Toby, your comments on the NBER study about estimation of Covid risk are out by a factor of 10. The data are per 1000. So, for example, people in the 18-34 age group believed they had a 2% chance of dying if they contracted Covid. The report actually states this in the narrative section. It’s still an overestimate, but not as bad as 20%.

48723 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sally, 4, #2 of 1305 🔗

Worth saying that the actual current overall risk of death is somewhere around 1.5m to 1 !¬

48884 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 9, #3 of 1305 🔗

… and as a follow-up :

The ONS estimation of Covid infections within the community is 1 in 3,900 between 22nd June and 5th July.

A quick and dirty update, using the drop in hospital deaths in the intervening period as a multiplier, suggests that the ration is now approaching 1 in 10000

… and Johnson is suggesting that masks are useful in the face of this naturally and rapidly waning epidemic?

Looks like he’s deeply embedded in the lying fictions that have always been his only stand-out talent.

49144 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to RickH, 2, #4 of 1305 🔗

In this latest interview on Talk Radio P.Hitchens refers to Johnson as Prime Minister as someone nearing ‘Olympian uselessness’ in the role. Something like that anyway. Incidentally it’s the nearest Hitchens (who I like) has come so far to conceding that there is something conspiratorial about this in the way they are still pushing the fear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N31Mza5ZqfU&list=TLPQMTMwNzIwMjA4OW7fsCJE5Q&index=2

49175 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella, 5, #5 of 1305 🔗

Perhaps Johnson has gone mad. There is madness in the family. Possibly the stress of his near death experience tipped home over the edge into this mask mania. He certainly looked deranged in that “blue mask” pic.

49653 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ helenf, replying to OKUK, #6 of 1305 🔗

Except it sounds like he was nowhere near death. PR stunt? I heard he received private care so all that gushing about the nhs was for the brainwashed clapping masses

48565 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 25, #7 of 1305 🔗

A very good opinion piece with some good information from somebody called Stacey Rudin (found on my Twitter feed):

“Superstition in the Pigeon”: Can Lockdowns Really Stop Death?
https://bit.ly/3ei7TuQ

I found this particularly interesting:

Longstanding practical experience demonstrates that no matter what humans do, nature can always find a way — especially viruses. Case in point: in 1969, a group of twelve men overwintered in Antarctica. During the seventeenth week of perfect quarantine in complete isolation, one of them suddenly developed an upper respiratory tract infection described as “a mild to moderately severe cold.” Over the next two weeks, seven more men contracted the infection. This strange case was was studied and the results published in a British medical journal:

“The occurrence of a common cold during isolation, when the chances of introduction of a new infection from the outside are virtually nil, implies that in some way the virus persisted, either in the environment or in the men.”

48591 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Nobody2020, #8 of 1305 🔗

How fascinating. I’ve often wondered whether Robinson Crusoe got colds on his island, or just really bad ones when he got back.

48878 ▶▶▶ David Owsley, replying to TJN, 3, #9 of 1305 🔗

Only on a Friday

48905 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to TJN, 4, #10 of 1305 🔗

If I recall, he reports having the “ague” and so losing track of the date. According to the dictionary, that means “ malaria or another illness involving fever and shivering”, so maybe it was the flu!

49473 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Simon Dutton, #11 of 1305 🔗

Ha, it was a long time ago I read it!

48595 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #12 of 1305 🔗

That is a great article. Toby should feature it in his roundup.

48597 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #13 of 1305 🔗

Is that from the David Capital Partners letter linked on the reddit Lockdown Skepticism site? Toby needs to link that whole letter. It’s fantastic reading.

48628 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #14 of 1305 🔗

maybe it’s because there are no viruses and it’s your cells cleaning.

48726 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #15 of 1305 🔗

Interesting! Shows it’s all about healthy immune systems and not about “germs”.

I’m guessing the men in Antarctica will have lived on storecupboard food. All their meat will have been dried or, more likely, tinned. If they had been able to hunt and eat fresh meat and fish, they would probably have stayed well.

Ships used to carry live animals for the same reason. I suspect there was no room for livestock once ships were filled with slaves (or convicts) and that caused scurvy to become a problem.

Vitamin C! I hear you cry. Fresh meat contains the equivalent of Vitamin C. (Sorry, I can’t remember it’s chemical name.) It isn’t in ascorbate form, so is overlooked when “experts” declare there’s no vit C in meat!

48806 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Nobody2020, #16 of 1305 🔗

Or it implies that viruses, whatever they are, do not cause the common cold.

48934 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Rowan, 1, #17 of 1305 🔗

Whatever it was it was quite infectious because after one guy got it, most of them did– it just spread like a regular cold. And colds are rare in this situation. So I think we can say that there are still infectious agents causing colds and it’s exceedingly likely that these are viruses.

It’s very interesting though– did they catch it from their dogs? The paper reckons not. Another possibility is that viruses can remain dormant in the body for a long time and then flare up every now and then in order to infect people. Herpes (which causes cold sores) is known to do this. It can hide in neurons and evade your immune system.

48578 Storm, replying to Storm, 8, #18 of 1305 🔗

Video demonstrating the huge increase of CO2 intake when wearing a mask.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-4ZuGj6Qtk

48585 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Storm, 9, #19 of 1305 🔗

Shocking. And people are wearing these things while driving. I would imagine if you have an accident while wearing one, your insurance would, in all likelihood, be null and void.

48596 ▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to kh1485, -7, #20 of 1305 🔗

Of course it wouldn’t, try and stay rational.

48630 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Jon G, -3, #21 of 1305 🔗

How about you away and fuck yourself?

48638 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Biker, 2, #22 of 1305 🔗

Nice

48645 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Jon G, -10, #23 of 1305 🔗

Well, you could go fuck yourself but I reckon your peen is too short.
Shame.
GFY

48869 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Jon G, -10, #24 of 1305 🔗

wanker

48890 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Biker, 22, #25 of 1305 🔗

Do you think that this sort of language is going to enhance the reputation of those of us who oppose the lockdown?

is this sort of response going to be helpful in getting lockdown rescinded?

I appreciate that you are frustrated as we all are, but I could see nothing wrong with the comment by Jon G.

if you disagree with him then set out why.

49235 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to John P, 2, #26 of 1305 🔗

This has been my experience on many of those sites which provide a forum for comments.
Some write, anonymously, in the most insulting and coarse prose, which they would never use face to face. In some ways it would help if only real names could be used. The trouble is that that would restrict some of the more venomous people to just one one go, rather than the multitude pseudonyms that they so like.

49639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to John P, #27 of 1305 🔗

Are you really thinking that these people listen to reason? Reason left the UK in March. I use this as a release valve…….

48679 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Jon G, 6, #28 of 1305 🔗

I’m completely rational, that’s why I asked the question. Surely if you are doing something that potentially adversely affects your ability to control a vehicle, and you have an accident, you are in some way liable?

48686 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to kh1485, -1, #29 of 1305 🔗

I wasn’t replying to you. Of course it wouldn’t void your insurance was my point.

48690 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Jon G, 3, #30 of 1305 🔗

Well, your reply was attached to my comment, so forgive me for thinking it was a reply … I was just asking a question so please leave out the snark …

48713 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to kh1485, -7, #31 of 1305 🔗

What snark? If you look at the comment it says ‘Reply to…’

48749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jon G, 4, #32 of 1305 🔗

kh1485. Are you hung over ?

48755 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to JohnB, #33 of 1305 🔗

Oh yeah, sorry, my mistake. But on the original point – of course your insurance wouldn’t be void, can you imagine a claim not being paid because the driver was wearing a face mask? Seriously?

48781 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Jon G, 18, #34 of 1305 🔗

I absolutely can… I can imagine insurance companies going down every avenue possible to avoid paying out if they can 😉

48804 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Jon G, 7, #35 of 1305 🔗

Insurance companies don’t want to pay out claims. They want to deny claims, and they look for any reason possible, mostly following “guidelines” such as the one mentioned above.

48812 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to TyLean, -1, #36 of 1305 🔗

They’d also have to deny all claims for wearing a motorcycle helmet then, or to anyone who has a cold, hayfever, etc as they all reduce the amount of oxygen you take in from normal capacity.

48831 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to daveyp, 4, #37 of 1305 🔗

You’re changing the parameters of the argument which has to do with clothing obstructing driving ability.

Pretty certain helmets are required by law.

48836 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to TyLean, -1, #38 of 1305 🔗

This conversation is about restricted breathing whilst driving/riding, nothing to do with the law.

48895 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, #39 of 1305 🔗

Because, err, you say so. Hmm.

49248 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to TyLean, 1, #40 of 1305 🔗

It has been said in relation to insurance claims, that you never know what you are covered for until you make a claim. That is why I am so bemused when travel writers for example, tell you to check the extent of your cover. The whole point of insurance is that you want to protect against the unexpected.

48850 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Jon G, 5, #41 of 1305 🔗

Having worked in the insurance industry, yes.

49197 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam C, replying to Jon G, #42 of 1305 🔗

Will you guarantee that with your cash?

49413 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Jon G, 2, #43 of 1305 🔗

My dad’s insurance company refused to pay out because his prescription sunglasses were not as up-to-date, prescription wise, as his regular specs. They were a quarter out on one lens but that was deemed irresponsible and therefore he was at fault. No money.

How many of us are 100% sure that our specs, tested & bought 6 months ago, are 100% correct in their prescription?

Yes. Insurance companies can and will use this.

48756 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to JohnB, 2, #44 of 1305 🔗

Also, just for the record, I agree that wearing a mask to drive is ridiculous.

49239 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Jon G, #45 of 1305 🔗

It might if it can be shown that your CO2 levels were so high that they affected your judgment.

48770 ▶▶▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to kh1485, 8, #46 of 1305 🔗

The comments on this topic are getting a little heated, but I think that Rule 97 of the Highway Code might be relevant here: ‘Before setting off you should ensure that clothing and footwear do not prevent you using the controls in the correct manner’.

48773 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DJ Dod, 4, #47 of 1305 🔗

Good point Dj Dod – the mask being a control..

48889 ▶▶▶▶ Hopeful, replying to Jon G, 2, #48 of 1305 🔗

You’re either a 77 brigade joker or a sheeple to proffer such a banal comment. Guess you have limited experience of making an insurance claim.

48891 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Hopeful, 1, #49 of 1305 🔗

Don’t be so stupid.

48893 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jon G, -1, #50 of 1305 🔗

I think you are probably right about this.

49632 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Jon G, #51 of 1305 🔗

Biker is too nice, fuck off and die Jon G 😁

48740 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to kh1485, 7, #52 of 1305 🔗

I wouldn’t be surprised if wearing a mask while driving invalidated insurance, since the risk of hypoxia is well known.

Regular readers of this site will no doubt remember this story:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/24/driver-crashes-car-after-passing-out-from-wearing-n95-mask/

48997 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 4, #54 of 1305 🔗

In a 2016 study on healthcare workers wearing masks, the scientists noted that even high-quality respirators can interfere with respiration, vision, thermal equilibrium, and feelings of well being.

48779 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to DJ Dod, 5, #55 of 1305 🔗

Thanks very much for this, answers my question.

49201 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam C, replying to kh1485, 2, #56 of 1305 🔗

Also current NHS policy for ambulance crew is no PPE allowed in the cab whilst driving.

49217 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam C, #57 of 1305 🔗

Sort of says it all really. Thanks for the info’

48815 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to DJ Dod, 1, #58 of 1305 🔗

I take it you’ve never worn a motorcycle helmet?

48845 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to daveyp, 6, #59 of 1305 🔗

I don’t know whether DJ Dod has, but I have; every day for work before I retired and I’ve been on long motorbiking trips through Europe. It’s nonsense to say that a helmet compares to a mask. There’s about a 2″ gap between my mouth and the front of the helmet and the helmet doesn’t cover my nose. So it doesn’t impede, at all, oxygen coming in or carbon dioxide going out. Unlike a mask.

48867 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Edna, 2, #60 of 1305 🔗

You do know that lots of tradesmen work in dust masks all day and have done for years. Never heard them complaining.

If you don’t want to wear a mask just say so and don’t wear, we don’t need to be justifying not wearing one with all this bullsh*t.

49162 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to daveyp, 4, #61 of 1305 🔗

Dust masks stop dust, not air/oxygen.

49884 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Edna, #62 of 1305 🔗

As it happens, I have. I have also recently been obliged to wear a face mask on a flight, which left me feeling light-headed and nauseous – not something I have ever experienced with a motorcycle helmet.

48992 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DJ Dod, #63 of 1305 🔗

Still, “We are not trying to cause public alarm or suggest wearing an N95 mask is unsafe,” the department added.

48799 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to kh1485, 9, #64 of 1305 🔗

The number of people i saw wearing face masks whilst on their own in theirs cars on Saturday was ridiculous. Do they think they are going to catch it off the upholstery in the car? Stupid people!

48818 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to daveyp, 3, #65 of 1305 🔗

Someone posted a really funny piss-take of this the other day. The guy was in his car with a mask saying “I wear my mask because I can’t social distance from myself”

48826 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to kh1485, 5, #66 of 1305 🔗

An actual way that a mask is dangerous when driving is if you wear glasses, as you breath comes out the top of the mask and steams your glasses up.

49206 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to kh1485, 1, #67 of 1305 🔗
49224 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ozzie, #68 of 1305 🔗

Thanks for posting this – I needed something to cheer myself up after the nonsense up-thread! 🙂

49425 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to daveyp, 1, #69 of 1305 🔗

What’s worse is seeing student drivers and instructors wearing masks. I would have thought that would have a been a double whammy in terms of accidents.

49567 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, #70 of 1305 🔗

Yes. I thought that when they re-emerged last week. One passed me and the instructor was wearing a mask plus a visor! I wanted to leap out, stop them and explain about the hypoxia problem.

The instructor has to read the road for a new driver and be several stages of anticipation ahead. If he’s getting drowsy and there’s an accident, the instructor will be fully responsible.

I don’t suppose the guidelines they’re being forced to follow will take that into account. It will be ok if the learner drives through a bus queue, just as long as no-one gets covid.

48807 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to kh1485, -5, #71 of 1305 🔗

Really the same could be said for wearing a motorcycle helmet, it’s more difficult for me to breath with a helmet on than a mask.

48828 ▶▶▶▶ Simon, replying to daveyp, 1, #72 of 1305 🔗

I wear a motorcycle helmet often, and have done all day as an ex despatch rider. I have not had any of the breathing difficulties or steaming up. You might need to try a diffrerent type of helmet, or perhaps even an open face one.

48848 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to daveyp, 5, #73 of 1305 🔗

Not strictly true.
Masks without exhale valves cause a proportion of what is exhaled to be reinhaled
If O2 is approx 19.8% when inhaled in fresh air, when wearing a mask, this has been measured to drip to around 16.5 %.
This is still adequate for consciousness, but is legally classified as an oxygen deficient atmosphere and increases the risk of hypoxia.
Surgeons have had SpO2 levels monitored over period of wearing masks and found blood oxygen dropped from 98% to around 90%.

Your helmet may obstruct your breathing depending on if it is full face & how close fitting it is to your mouth, but will not obstruct air flow to the same extent as a mask

48861 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Nessimmersion, #74 of 1305 🔗

You ever worn a motorcycle helmet?

48897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to daveyp, 25, #75 of 1305 🔗

Yes frequently, also worn various forms of PPE, mask face fit testing, trained in rescue from oxygen deficient environments various courses in BA maintenance and am an authorised gas tester as well – next question.

48929 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Nessimmersion, 7, #76 of 1305 🔗

My best answer of the day. Cheered me up no end!

48946 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 5, #77 of 1305 🔗

Agree. Stonking reply!

49226 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to kh1485, #78 of 1305 🔗

You must be right if, as is so obvious, the wearers response times will be affected.

49223 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Storm, #79 of 1305 🔗

A very useful link which is stating the bleeding obvious.

49424 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Storm, #80 of 1305 🔗

Wow!! Looks like even face shields aren’t that any better after all.

48581 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 7, #81 of 1305 🔗
48582 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 18, #82 of 1305 🔗

See above for the ‘new normal’.

Coronafritters is my name for the terminally fearful lockdown adherents; known up here in Sturgeon land as deep fried coronafritters.

Alternative name : Covoids.

Another sleepless night; still fuming about the masks in shops diktat.

48583 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #83 of 1305 🔗

Ha ha, love that …

Sorry about your sleepless night ..

Have you tried your mask exempt badge yet Wendyk?

48588 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 8, #84 of 1305 🔗

Hasn’t arrived yet kh; I hope within the next couple of days.

This place is succumbing to Covoid -panic-syndrome.

48586 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 6, #85 of 1305 🔗

Have you tried audiobooks, Wendyk, or music? Put the sound on low and instead of trying to sleep, concentrate on the sound. At worst, you will hear something pleasing and interesting, At best, you will drop off within five minutes. I almost always do, as I can tell from the last thing I remember hearing when I wake up!

48587 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 1, #86 of 1305 🔗

You’re quite right Annie; I’ve got a large audio book collection and shall start tonight.
Thank you

48624 ▶▶▶▶ LyndsayHopkins, replying to annie, 3, #87 of 1305 🔗

Podcasts are useful as well. If it’s something you actually wanted to listen to you can always listen again.

49019 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #88 of 1305 🔗

Read “Instructional Techniques and Practices”. Lights out pronto – guaranteed!

49347 ▶▶▶▶▶ Michel, replying to Cheezilla, #89 of 1305 🔗

Or Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbons…never got to page 2 yet 😉

49570 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Michel, #90 of 1305 🔗

You need a sizeable bosum to prop it up on! (Kindle is recommended.)

49032 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #91 of 1305 🔗

I listen to podcasts from Delingpod, Spiked, TRIGGERnometry, London Calling and occasionally World Science Festival to put me to sleep.

48632 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to wendyk, 17, #92 of 1305 🔗

Give it up WendyK, don’t worry about not wearing a mask. Just go about your day and don’t think about it anymore. Lie to the pigs if they hassle you but at the end of the day a bad law should be ignored and this is a bad law and first and foremost you’re right to do exactly what the fuck you want is more important than anything else. Sturgeon and her goons are Nazi’s pure and simple. Remember it took the Germans about 30 years after the war to admit to themselves they were all nazi’s so the cunts who support Sturgeon have a long way to go before they realise how utterly disgusting they were.

48647 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Biker, 13, #93 of 1305 🔗

Thank you Biker, for the encouragement. It’s just that I find this illogical nonsense being foisted on us to be so utterly unnecessary ,divisive and just plain bloody stupid: it gets me down.

When I’ve improved my mood I shall take your advice and hit the streets!
The Stupid Numpty Followers are so brain washed that I fear they might never admit to any wrong doings; they’re a cult in all but name.

Meanwhile the Deep Fried Coronafritters are mindlessly waiting for the Dear Leader to issue her next instructions.

48696 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Biker, 19, #94 of 1305 🔗

Update: I’ve just been out;so depressing! Masks- worn in the open, fresh air!!!- and in most shops.

Masks predominating now-about 60% wearing them.

Went to Savers, not challenged; young woman behind tall perspex barrier swathed in a tight pink gag,which looked to be made of polyester or similar.

I asked how she felt: uncomfortable, hot, and would be obliged to keep it in place until 6pm when she finishes work.

Would she get a break? Yes, but she’d wear it outside!!

As I left a woman swathed in a black one stared at me, so I stared back.

This is entirely irrational; why are all these people obstructing their breathing in the open air? What is the point?

Next,queue outside the one remaining bank: 2 masked; 2 without.

Finally, walked past optician which I normally use: bossy notice :’Emergencies only; face masks must be worn’.

I won’t be going there again.

This is truly awful; I feel so frustrated at this unquestioning herd behaviour.

48711 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 10, #95 of 1305 🔗

Horrible. Just read a WhatsApp message from a hairdresser here boasting about how he turned away two customers with raised temperatures: “we dodged a bullet there …” Charming.

48720 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 7, #96 of 1305 🔗

And what about that reply to your perfectly legitimate query about car insurance?

There’s a very poor atmosphere here now; suspicion spreading.

I now count the smiles: 3 today, all from bare faced women.

48724 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, #97 of 1305 🔗

I agree wendy. And now he’s telling me that the reply wasn’t to me … Not sure who it was to as I was the one who asked the question!

Sadly, loads of masks in here today.

48868 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to kh1485, 10, #98 of 1305 🔗

AFAIK if you wear a .ask while operating machinery/ driving, you are driving while impaired.
Sp02 levels drop while wearing a mask and mask rebreathed O2 level is around 16.5% which according to HSE is an oxygen deficient atmosphere and you are jot legally allowed to work in low oxygen environments.
So yes, sooner or later an insurance company will argue that a mask wearer was driving wile impaired and is liable.
Simple thing to allege in a collision, the other driver was wearing a mask.
Really wearing a mask while driving should be treated like using a mobile.

49030 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, #99 of 1305 🔗

I know we’ve had a number of people join us this last week.
Does anyone remember DaveyP posting here before today?

48739 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 7, #100 of 1305 🔗

This is the whole comment:

Yes every customer plus all of us entering to work. I’ve already turned away two customers due to getting a high reading, one of which I think just walked around to the next available barber shop, who aren’t taking temps or even bookings…..dodged a bullet & affirmation that it’s a potential tool to minimise the risk to ourselves, our other customers & to us remaining open. I got the gun online about & £30 our customers seem to appreciate it, not intimidating if you make it fun

Make it fun”? Jeez …

48754 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 4, #101 of 1305 🔗

Bad attitudes are spreading, more’s the pity.

48809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to kh1485, 7, #102 of 1305 🔗

So clueless – Having a raised temperature does not mean you have COVID. That customer will not return!

48916 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to kh1485, 7, #103 of 1305 🔗

He might do well to add a postscript.

PS We are making a loss and if this goes on we’re out of business. JobCentre Plus here I come.

48745 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to kh1485, 8, #104 of 1305 🔗

If they keep this up all winter, with the usual colds and flu around, they’ll be very short of customers!

48753 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #105 of 1305 🔗

And it’s going to be really hot this week. Not sure how that is going to work!

48810 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to wendyk, 3, #106 of 1305 🔗

Coronafritters….. that makes me hungry. Mmmmm…. fritters.

48852 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TyLean, 2, #107 of 1305 🔗

Best deep fried TyLean;at least in the Dear Leader’s fiefdom….

49431 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 1, #108 of 1305 🔗

Great term coronafritters, will try to use that.

48584 annie, replying to annie, 32, #109 of 1305 🔗

I gather from the Daily Record piece that Scots with heart disease or cancer, which is quite likely to kill them, still don’t want to go into hospital, for fear of getting Covid.
If true, this shows that

  1. They know that most infection is nosocomial,
  2. They believe that Covid is invariably fatal,
  3. They are blind to statistics showing its virtual disappearance,
  4. The government terror campaign has become a murder weapon.
48589 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 11, #110 of 1305 🔗

What a despondent place this now is.
Thank you so much, Dear Leader.
No clapping here yesterday,thankfully.

48590 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 10, #111 of 1305 🔗

Small mercies … at this rate she’ll be able to twin Scotland with North Korea!

48606 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to wendyk, 8, #112 of 1305 🔗

Hate to disappoint you Wendy, but the clap for the Dear Leader is next Sunday, the 19th at 8pm. Have your sick bag ready.

48623 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Gillian, 1, #113 of 1305 🔗

O no! Thanks for letting me know Gillian

48672 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 2, #114 of 1305 🔗

I have posted something somewhere thinking it was yesterday to Wendyk! I onky thought about it this morning. I share you disappointment with the news Gillian brings!

48635 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Gillian, 8, #115 of 1305 🔗

i wouldn’t clap for that Sturgeon if you had a gun at my head. In my entire 50 years, outside of Mrs Thatcher i can’t think of a single politician worth a damn. We have been badly served by horrible bastards who’ve sold out to the cabal and have been slowly destroying the west to the point that the vast majority of the people are so braindead they don’t know anything. Ive asked plenty SNP supporters to name one of their polices apart from independence and so far not one of them has been able to. This is how far we are from safety and rationality. There is no objectivity any more, no individualism and we are now at the mercy of a bunch of Nazi/commies who want what you’ve worked for and want to dictate every single thing you do, for your own good. I despise people who help others.

48860 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Biker, 5, #116 of 1305 🔗

You’ve probably seen already.

48652 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 1, #117 of 1305 🔗

Oh!

48832 ▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Gillian, 3, #118 of 1305 🔗

Couldn’t you join in but with very loud boos instead of clapping? You never know – it could start something

49039 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Gillian, 1, #119 of 1305 🔗

This is right out of ‘1984’. Wow!

48592 David Mc, replying to David Mc, 30, #120 of 1305 🔗

I feel increasingly hopeful that the ‘old normal’ is on its way back. It’s not going to be as quick as any of us would like, but it is happening. A few glimmers:

-My local Tesco is one of the company’s ‘flagship’ UK stores. They’ve now got rid of their one-way system and queue. You can freely shop again, just like the old days. This is a small thing, but a big sign that the shackles are starting to come off. (I had a real spring in my step yesterday when I discovered that I could just shop like a normal human being again.)

-All my local playgrounds are now open, except one, but everybody just hops over the fence and uses it anyway. Social distancing for children has disappeared, it seems, and sanity is returning.

-Playgroups and ballet classes that my daughter used to attend are all re-opening over the next month or 6 weeks.

-A friend is the deputy head of a big urban primary school and she says in September the kids will be back in basically as normal, but possibly with slightly staggered start/finish times and lunch hours.

-Pubs. Need I say more?

48603 ▶▶ Alex McNeil, replying to David Mc, 11, #121 of 1305 🔗

I hope you are right, but despite Gove’s placation on TV yesterday, muzzles could be on the way for shopping. That is a retrograde step.

48668 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Alex McNeil, 8, #122 of 1305 🔗

Sounds hopeful. Good to hear the glimmer.

Coverings are a giant step away from normal. It’s hard to describe how unpleasant the atmosphere is with that single step.

48838 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 2, #123 of 1305 🔗

Should it come, then hopefully many waverers will have their minds made up for them – in the right direction of course ! 🙂

48983 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 16, #124 of 1305 🔗

It deletes faces. Without faces we are not human.
Do you remember one of the last sequences in Attenborough’s Life on Earth ? It stressed, with suitable illustration, the importance of ‘the infinite variety of our faces’.
Don’t be dehumanised.

49236 ▶▶▶▶▶ David Mc, replying to annie, #125 of 1305 🔗

Don’t get me wrong, I dislike the idea, and I despise the government for foisting it on us (as I daresay they will). But I lived in Japan for nearly a decade. Face masks are not unusual there even in normal times, and people get on perfectly fine. It’s important not to exaggerate the negative effects of them.

49606 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to David Mc, 1, #126 of 1305 🔗

Possibly, but I can’t help feeling that the death rattle demographics of that and neighbouring countries, such as South Korea, may not be unconnected.

49584 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Alex McNeil, 1, #127 of 1305 🔗

Assoon as he said they won’t be mandatory I knew Boris would make them mandatory.

Not greatly looking forward to my shopping trip tomorrow, so far less than a single figure percentage of the population here have been masked, I’ve seen three or four total around town in a day.

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-daily-update/

what a fine time to introduce face nappies eh?

48849 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to David Mc, #128 of 1305 🔗

That’s positive! So glad to hear it.

48593 Jon G, replying to Jon G, 2, #129 of 1305 🔗

The Bernician is an anti-vax, 5G-is-killing-us, Covid-19-is-a-hoax conspiracy theory organisation.

I don’t think there’s any need to link to anything from such demonstrably untrustworthy sources; it risks undoing much of your good work.

The truth, as you’ve repeatedly shown, is out there – but putting in the hard yards in terms of data and reliable sources is the path you should stay on.

48601 ▶▶ Connie, replying to Jon G, #130 of 1305 🔗

I thought much the same.

48608 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Jon G, #131 of 1305 🔗

The Surrey NHS consultant writes the following, here below. Surely this could be checked by an investigative journalist.

“The trust has been running empty ambulances during lockdown and is still doing it now. By this I mean ambulances are driving around, with their emergency alert systems active (sirens & / or lights) with no job to go to.”

48622 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Cambridge N, #132 of 1305 🔗

It’s complete baloney. Why on earth would you whistleblow to a blog, that virtually no one reads, and would never be taken seriously? If you’re going to come out and whistleblow it would be absolutely pointless doing it this way as it has zero effect.

You might as well just go to any Wetherspoons and tell your story to a landlord and it would get more coverage.

A total load of b*llocks!

49040 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to daveyp, 1, #133 of 1305 🔗

Carry on DaveyP. Just adds to the evidence that you’re a troll.

48840 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jon G, 4, #134 of 1305 🔗

It’s about free speech, Jon. And trusting people to make up their own minds.

Remember those days ? 🙂

PS It’s kh1485 you might want to apologise to, for suggesting insurance companies always try to do the right thing, not me

49406 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jon G, #135 of 1305 🔗

Don’t be so hard on Mr. Young, many newspapers and news outlet print articles from suspect sources, sometimes deliberately.

48594 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 65, #136 of 1305 🔗

On the back of some discussions yesterday about how people have bought into the whole cv19 panic and what sort of people they are I think I might have had an epiphny moment and have thought about when and why we will get back to normal.

I think most people are seeing this whole situation as the most exciting thing to ever happen to them and are enjoying the drama of it and have the opportunity to live their life like a big brother contestant. I’ve just noticed that big brother, love island and I’m a celebrity are all social experiments that lock people in a house, people are getting used to seeing people live this way and want to experience it 1st hand (I/we don’t!!).

I think these are the people who will save us (not politicians, experts or scientists) as they will get bored of it.

Bored of lockdown.
Bored of social distancing.
Bored of wearing and seeing people wearing masks.
Bored of still not knowing anyone who has had it or has died of it.
Bored of spikes, testing, R numbers, curves.
Bored of inept scientists.
Bored of inept government officials.
Bored of 1 way systems in shops.
Bored of using hand sanitiser.
Bored of not dying.
Bored of not being able to sit in their favourite seat in their local pub.
Bored of being told when and where to drink.
Bored of propaganda.
Bored of being controlled and manipulated.
Bored of #blm
Bored of wokes
Bored of not being able to go out on a Saturday night and meeting someone.
Bored of not having our usual haircut, sun bed or manicure.
Bored of not being able to have casual sex.
Bored of not buying their Glastonbury ticket.
Bored of not being able to see their favourite band.
Bored of working at home.
Bored of not having the 9-5 commute.
Bored of not being stuck on an overcrowded tube.
Bored of teaching the kids.
Bored of having the kids under their feet.
Bored of Joe Wickes workouts.
Bored of washing their car every week.
Bored of mowing the lawn.
Bored of not seeing their colleagues – even the weird smelly bloke in IT and the woman who keeps stealing milk form the fridge.
Bored of not being able to watch new episodes of Eastenders and Coronation Street.
Bored of not being able to watch the new series of Strictly, Love Island…..
Bored of the same old repeats on tv.
Bored of McDonalds and Deliveroo.
Bored of not being able to buy the full menu from McDonalds.
Bored of not being able to go on a lads/girls holiday to Ibiza for 2 weeks or to Tenerife or Turkey.
Bored of not being able to watch their favourite team or sit in the pub with their pals watching the game.
Bored of the new normal.
Bored of Twitter.

Bored of being fucking bored.

Much like the ending of Indiana Jones Temple of Doom when the Indian children escape the mines by overpowering their masters and flood back to the village our saviours will do the same and stop following the rules.

Information will spread ‘don’t worry people we are not going to die, there is no danger, we’ve had the wool pulled over our eyes’ and we will be back to normal before you know it.

This is now keeping me going as I’m convinced it will happen, it might be weeks or months but it will happen so everyone keep your chin up as the normal happy in their ignorance people will save the day.

Sorry about that, had to get it off my chest.

48602 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to stefarm, 17, #137 of 1305 🔗

Great post. Cheered me up on this grey, depressing day in Scotland. Hope all inmates of Stalag Sturgeon are well this morning and ready to take the mask fight on.

48607 ▶▶▶ Alex McNeil, replying to Gillian, 6, #138 of 1305 🔗

The muzzle fight continues – though I do fear it’s a losing battle.

48844 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alex McNeil, #139 of 1305 🔗

Negativity spreader ! 🙂

48609 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Gillian, 9, #140 of 1305 🔗

I’m well, she is not going to win. My epiphany allowed me my best night’s sleep in weeks and I truly believe once people are bored there is nothing that our lord and masters can do about it, they know this and it’s their get out of jail card.

As someone else mentioned there will be another natural disaster, Twitter meltdown, Adele album to capture the imagination of the plebs.

48629 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to stefarm, 10, #141 of 1305 🔗

Great extension to the chat yesterday evening SF. The realisation can’t come soon enough, although I fear it may be some months. As has been posted on this forum frequently, it’s mostly younger folk who seem to have embraced mask wearing and threatened granny with instant death if she didn’t stay behind closed doors. I’ve noticed that these are the folk who lack basic knowledge of how the body works, i.e. using oxygen, exhaling carbon dioxide. Actually now I think of it, that ignorance is spread across the generations.

48662 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to bluemoon, 6, #142 of 1305 🔗

I’m bored of agreeing with everything Steven Farmer says but he is most usually so darn right! Great post again, I think you’ve got a great point, once the drudgery kicks in and mumurs from the alphas begin… we are sorted!

48674 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to bluemoon, 5, #143 of 1305 🔗

Granny will start telling them to stop being so stupid and go out get drunk and have a good shag.

48999 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to bluemoon, 1, #144 of 1305 🔗

Mail recently reported a third of people don’t even know what the symptoms of Covid are.
Terrified by utter ignorance.

48664 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to stefarm, 1, #145 of 1305 🔗

They’ll all be sick and tired of being sick and tired. I am sure you’re right

48737 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to stefarm, 5, #146 of 1305 🔗

Completely agree. It’s definitely a social media thing – you’re always the star in your own “story” and some people seem to find that addictive.

48785 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #147 of 1305 🔗

If you want to know how true that is you should download and read this:

https://www.getfreeebooks.com/rate-me-red/

It not only confirms your point absolutely, but also mixes in an entertaining amount of comedy – and it is free.

I know it resides in their ‘Science Fiction’ section, but then so did 1984 – need I say more?

48863 ▶▶ Brian D, replying to stefarm, 4, #148 of 1305 🔗

I feel there is a slogan in that somewhere…

First the wool for the eyes, then the mask for the mouth

48995 ▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 6, #149 of 1305 🔗

Well said.
Whenever there’s a chance of normal, people round here are acting normal. That’s what they want, except for the real zombies. .p Polls to the contrary are lies.

Push for normal, normal, normal, with all your might.

48598 Bob, replying to Bob, 34, #150 of 1305 🔗

A pertinent part of the consultant’s full article is:

“ I know that if a way could be found to assure staff within the NHS of safety against reprisals, there would be a tsunami of whistleblowers which I have no doubt would help end this complete and brutal insanity.“

Sounds like there needs to be some kind of Wikileaks style reporting system for NHS workers.

48611 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bob, 5, #151 of 1305 🔗

When the time is right I believe there will be a leaked memo or tweet that will be released into the public domain that will topple the house of cards and show the sheep (easy for me to say) that they have been conned.

48636 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to Bob, 1, #152 of 1305 🔗

For what it’s worth, this is from the section on whistleblowing gov.uk:

https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing

Who is protected by law

You’re protected if you’re a worker, for example you’re:

an employee, such as a police officer, NHS employee, office worker, factory worker

a trainee, such as a student nurse

an agency worker

a member of a Limited Liability Partnership (LLP)

Get independent advice if you’re not sure you’re protected, for example from Citizens’ Advice.

A confidentiality clause or ‘gagging clause’ in a settlement agreement is not valid if you’re a whistleblower.

48599 FrankiiB, 15, #153 of 1305 🔗

Another excellent piece, thank you Toby. I am very impressed with the Swiss medical researcher’s site which has lots of evidence to use.
Very relieved that face masks are not going to be mandatory but worried that Boris made this suggestion. What next?!

48605 Cambridge N, replying to Cambridge N, 2, #154 of 1305 🔗

The Surrey NHS consultant writes the following, here below. Surely this could be checked by an investigative journalist.

“The trust has been running empty ambulances during lockdown and is still doing it now. By this I mean ambulances are driving around, with their emergency alert systems active (sirens & / or lights) with no job to go to.”

48631 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cambridge N, 2, #155 of 1305 🔗

I heard about this happening, right at the start of the lockdown. Wish I could remember who told me … but I’ve been aware that this was a rumoured scenario three months ago.

49143 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Cambridge N, #156 of 1305 🔗

Are there *really* ambulances driving around Surrey with blue lights flashing just to give a false impession? Surely this would need the involvement of at least a) ambulance trust management, b) call centre staff, c) ambulance crews.

Hard to believe!

49174 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cambridge N, #157 of 1305 🔗

The call centre staff wouldn’t have to know (not if there’s nothing to call the ambulances to). I do find it hard to believe that this could be done on any kind of scale without a single ambulance crew member letting it slip, though.

49409 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to matt, 1, #158 of 1305 🔗

So find someone to check all the records. Every phone call made today is being monitored and filed away somewhere.

48610 Gilly, 4, #159 of 1305 🔗

Perhaps a fighting fund to cover the salary of the NHS whistleblowers? I don’t have much, I’ve not been furloughed, I’ve lost my jobs, but I’d give what I can. If we can just hear the truth from the ‘frontline’ unfiltered by political bias it just might get through?

48612 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 16, #160 of 1305 🔗

The Coronalympics Gold for Rank Stupidity this week must surely go to the government and public health panjandrums responsible for this little gem:

“Government guidance states that services including face waxing, eyebrow threading, eyelash treatments, make-up applications and facials should not be provided because of the greater risk of Covid-19 transmission.

Beard trims have been allowed since barbers opened last weekend – but should be limited to simple tidy-ups or thinning which can be carried out from the side or by circling the client to avoid the highest risk zone in front of the face.”

Anybody who still believes that this government is serious about rebuilding the economy needs to take a gargantuan reality check. By suffocating millions of self-employed business owners and their workers with this litany of frankly unworkable red tape, they are effectively signing a “do not resuscitate” order on behalf of these companies – they will simply suffer a painful, drawn out demise in the current climate of Covid madness.

I’ll finish with a quote from the CEO of the UK’s largest tanning business:

“More than 90% of our staff are women, and most in the 18 to 25-year-old age group, which is the demographic which has been worst hit financially by the pandemic, and they are very keen to get back to work.”

One wonders, where is the outcry from feminists when we discover that Government assaults on the beauty industry disproportionately affect women on an enormous scale? In a country obsessed with gender pay gaps and the empowerment of women, why have the mainstream media and opposition MPs completely refused to touch the issue with a barge pole?

48685 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Scotty87, 6, #161 of 1305 🔗

Shocking! This Government obviously believe that women should be at home and in the kitchen and are doing their best to push women down. Well done Boris & Team.

49058 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Scotty87, 4, #162 of 1305 🔗

The main takeaway message is that masks clearly don’t work to prevent viral spread, or there would be no problem for beauticians to do facials etc.

48613 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 22, #163 of 1305 🔗

A great idea from Peter Hitchens, allow individuals and businesses to state that they are relaxed. People can then choose where they frequent and how they travel:

https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2020/07/peter-hitchens.html

48620 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Sarigan, 15, #164 of 1305 🔗

I’m joining the relaxed group along with every other contributor on Lockdown Sceptics I would imagine.

48625 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to ambwozere, 6, #165 of 1305 🔗

Absolutely. Good to see some familiar names in the comments too.

48669 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Sarigan, 5, #166 of 1305 🔗

We should have ‘ Hitchie Says Relax’ T-shirt’s made!

49004 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 6, #167 of 1305 🔗

A couple if zombies in comments (very much in minority) accuse him of selfishness.
He wants to live his way, allowing them to live theirs.
They want to force him and everybody to live their way.
So who’s selfish?

48615 daveyp, replying to daveyp, 1, #168 of 1305 🔗

Jeez, have we sunk that low and desperate to be basing the latest news on a blog from the Bernician?

Why would a whistleblower go directly to the Bernician when there are far more reputable sites outside the MSM where his claims would be taken more seriously?

Why not come directly to Lockdown Sceptics for example?

Even the Bernician doesn’t believe the rubbish that the Bernician writes!

48634 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to daveyp, #169 of 1305 🔗

I am not sure it was sent directly to the Bernican as I saw it on many sources. They have published it sure and that they may do more harm than good as you say.

48642 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Sarigan, -1, #170 of 1305 🔗

The Bernician still push that “Freeman of the Land” crap, that’s how deluded they are!

48649 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Sarigan, -4, #171 of 1305 🔗

The story originally came from David Icke’s site, a well known purveyor of truth, FFS!

48673 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to daveyp, 1, #172 of 1305 🔗

There must be some deluded people on here if I’m being down voted for questioning David Icke’s ability to tell the truth.

48681 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to daveyp, 2, #173 of 1305 🔗

It wasn’t me. Icke has some pretty extreme views and has to be taken with a whole cellar let alone a pinch. He does come up with some useful content from time to time though.

I agree, if it cannot be verified then we should steer clear of such pieces regardless of how much truth some of us may think it holds.

48697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 7, #174 of 1305 🔗

I don’t understand how blogs operate but it is the traditional journalists job to verify what is published. This Surrey consultant account arrived in two posts in these comments a few days ago. With the commentator suggesting they had been sent to them by someone they knew. The commentator asked for email to Toby.

Commenters at the time felt it was right to question the source, annonymous is always questionable. Toby has verified earlier professional accounts before posting.

Commenters stated their opinion that NHS workers need to stand up for what is right and no longer can stay silent. We need NHS staff to speak about what they have seen happening. I was and remain one with those opinions.

This Surrey doctor account no longer stands in my opinion. Without verification to a creditable trusted person it holds as much weight as my own comments. Will the Surrey Consultant step forward to be verified?

This has markings of a simple technique to discredit genuine people with real thoughtful concerns. Very sad times.

48704 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Basics, 2, #175 of 1305 🔗

If you’re going to whistleblow, you aren’t going to go to either Icke or the Bernician. That would kill your career quicker than the actual whistleblowing.

I very much doubt that Toby would ever use a story from Icke in the Spectator or Telegraph.

48772 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to daveyp, 1, #176 of 1305 🔗

If GrantM gets accused of 77th Brigade then it is more than reasonable to question this episode in light of 77th Brigade’s known objectives.

I think its worthwhile reflecting and being alert.

It clearly could all have been badly handled but genuine too.

48871 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Basics, 2, #177 of 1305 🔗

Yes, I agree. I find it believable but questionable, and – ultimately – the person needs to put skin on the line if it’s real.

48616 Bugle, 13, #178 of 1305 🔗

Why does the NHS gag its staff? Nothing to hide, nothing to fear surely?

48618 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 19, #179 of 1305 🔗

Meanwhile under the Dictatorship in Wales. Yes, I know you are not interested, but it is a useful glimpse of how thing could be under Kia Starmer

Pubs are due to open ‘outside’ today. Over 50% have refused. Knowing that Dripfords Stasi will be quickly dispatched to close them down again they’ve gone Refusenik

Two days ago the Leader planted a sob story in the press about how difficult things had been for him. He also managed to drop in that he had not been home for the duration of the lockdown

He announced he had ‘spent time with other people’ (titter ye not)

As the Welsh Government has no official accommodation for him: where was he exactly when he was confining everyone else to their homes?

Meanwhile on the weekend thousands gathered near the ‘parliament’ to protest, drink and confront the police

Revolution is in the air

48917 ▶▶ duncanpt, replying to Cecil B, 3, #180 of 1305 🔗

Now that Wales has graciously allowed visitors from England to return, I hope to find out for myself this coming weekend. We may stay in our static caravan (from which we have been banned up to now) for up to a week if conditions are conducive (ie the pubs are open); however if it’s too depressing out and about, we’ll probably head back over the bridge rather sooner.

48619 Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #181 of 1305 🔗

The new Oxford undergrad will learn a great deal about human nature this year including seeing all the CYA behaviour as reality finally dawns. I believe that will outweigh the disadvantages. A tale for the grandchildren anyway.

48924 ▶▶ duncanpt, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #182 of 1305 🔗

Depressing because a large part of the Oxford experience ™ is about the small group interaction, societies, etc quite apart from tutorials and lectures.

I would not be surprised if after a little careful sounding out, some tutors and students quietly agree to drop the masks while in private. It will be a little like the underground in Soviet Russia, but let’s hope there aren’t any KGB equivalents around.

49012 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to duncanpt, 2, #183 of 1305 🔗

That’s the immediate future for us all, maybe: sanity speakeasies!

49059 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 1, #184 of 1305 🔗

Welcome to the New World Order.

49010 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #185 of 1305 🔗

I used to think that Oxford dondps were intelligent.
How can you be, at one and the same time, so ( presumably) intelligent and so utterly, incredibly, demonstrably stupid?

48621 Bugle, 16, #186 of 1305 🔗

Don’t worry about capacity limits in university libraries. They’ll have burned half the books by then.

48626 Biker, 21, #187 of 1305 🔗

The whole thing is a lie and it’s being used to destroy nation states and turn us into the new world order. There is absolutely no doubt about this whatsoever. That cow Sturgeon says masks are here for the foreseeable future. She is being paid by the dark forces and the utter wankers that follower her are walking into the gas chambers thinking they are going for a shower. I’m telling you folk like Boris and Sturgeon are members of the secret cabal. We live in very dark times where they want to crush humanity. Every time you wear the mask you give up. Stand up to these fuckers. If in the future you need to fight then fight because they’re not going away and they have your death and the enslavement of the survivors as their goals. This is nothing less than the end of the world. The fact the NHS is lying just proves how you don’t matter and how doctors are always the ones who cause mass death to their populations. These people play for real and think nothing of letting you die.

48627 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 17, #188 of 1305 🔗

Caught the train to a midland market town yesterday and visited a beer garden. It was much more positive than recent Orwellian city centre experiences. On the train we have clearly hit the level where enough people have defied wearing muzzles for many of the sheep to follow. Vast majority had either no muzzle or hung it around their necks. It turns out that the sheep will follow even a small number of rebellious leaders. We need to keep this up even if the “government” enforce more strongly. I’ll take fines if necessary, although I expect my printed exemption card will avoid this. The guard walked the train possibly counting dissenters, but said nothing. One family had muzzled kids (but not the parents?) who took a social media selfy and then immediately unmuzzled for the rest of the journey.

Our local city centre pubs and restaurants have been wrecked by the coronovirus guidelines, but it was good to see that in the small towns some businesses have done the minimum amount possible. The pub we went to has a densely seated garden with three adjacent areas of tables. They had simply taped off the middle section of tables. This did nothing to distance people, it just reduced their capacity (to comply with the letter of the guidance?), if anything it concentrated people together. Tables were mingling together and talking. A one way system was in effect inside but was totally ignored. Perspex shielding was up, all staff muzzled and they brought the drinks out. Quite liking this system of bringing drinks to you, one thing we can maybe keep going forward. So hard to hear bar staff behind a screen and a muzzle though.

48648 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to TheBluePill, 18, #189 of 1305 🔗

You are right about people wanting an excuse not to wear the masks. I had a hospital appointment recently and ended up sitting next to two other patients for several hours (and when I say sitting, I mean literally elbow to elbow – due to lack of seating in the corridor we were in – hospital staff wandered by with no regard for the fact none of us was antisocial distancing). One was a an older gent, 80 years old, whose cancer treatment had been delayed by the Lockdown. He started off the conversation wearing a mask, but all I had to do was tell him he didn’t need to wear one, and off it went for the rest of the conversation. What was funny was that every time he used the words ‘touch wood’, he’d tap the side of my head. I don’t think the Corona propaganda had got to him somehow. The guy on my left was much younger, in his late twenties I think. He had a big beard with his mask perched on it ineffectively. Again, I just simply said he didn’t to wear one, and off it came. I didn’t have to give either of them a reason why masks were useless – it was weird, like they just needed someone to give them permission to discard them.

I was dreading having to wear a mask in A & E when I arrived, but all that happened was a nurse came round with a box of masks asking if anyone wanted one. I counted 8 people in the waiting room at the time, all men. None took up the offer of masks. In fact during my wait there of several hours, the only two people who came in wearing masks were younger women – in their twenties/early thirties.

48667 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Mr Dee, 11, #190 of 1305 🔗

Here in SW France, our GP told SWMBO not to bother wearing a muzzle at her latest appointment, although he was masked.

Similar situation at the local path lab when she went for a blood test. Staff were muzzled but told SWMBO it wasn’t necessary to wear one.

48701 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Alec in France, 3, #191 of 1305 🔗

Thank you Alec. I value details like this. Thanks for posting.

48769 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #192 of 1305 🔗

These heartening comments largely mirror my direct experience – although 2/3 weeks ago, mask wearing was encouraged in hospital, even though staff spoke about the unpleasantness of the experience of being muzzled all day.

The most ridiculous example was in chatting to a patient with COPD who was wearing a mask!

But I sense things are changing.

48938 ▶▶▶ duncanpt, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #193 of 1305 🔗

I’ve just been to the dentist with an emergency broken tooth. New arrival protocol requires hand sanitiser, mask and temp check. The receptionist who handed me my mask was wearing one but not covering her nose. Nobody seemed t have noticed or be bothered.

As I was needing the treatment, I complied. But of course once you’re in the chair, the mask comes off and it’s pretty much as normal. I give it 3 months before they stop bothering; less if they get a plausible reason.

49090 ▶▶▶▶ Paul B, replying to duncanpt, 1, #194 of 1305 🔗

I have an appointment in a month, I’ll either be waiting outside, or walk through with my motorbike helmet on.

49599 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, #195 of 1305 🔗

I had to go for an x-ray a couple of weeks ago. We had to pick up a mask on the way into the hospital – not optional.

Ridiculously, as I was waiting to be seen, the aircon blew down into my mask which did keep it bearable but obviously would have blown any virus all over the place.

I was only at the hospital for about 20 minutes in total but noticed as I drove home that my face felt unnaturally hot. Suspect I have a mask allergy!

48979 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to TheBluePill, 5, #196 of 1305 🔗

I spent a few days in hospital recently. Masks were dispensed in the main foyer. No visitors were allowed.

On the wards the staff complied and seemed to wear masks most of the time, but none of the patients did. They either wore them like chin hammocks or like me dispensed with them altogether.

A few staff expressed their scepticism about masks to me privately or said they felt like an encumberence. One or two thought them unnecessary and said so… but trust rules are trust rules.

49015 ▶▶ annie, replying to TheBluePill, 5, #197 of 1305 🔗

You’ve hit it. Sheeple will follow a lead. Let’s give them one! I’m sure very few of the really want to be as miserable as the Evil Mob are trying to make them.
Corollary: don’t be miserable. Be cheerful, the evil mob hate it!

48633 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 15, #198 of 1305 🔗

“Young people over-estimate covid risk.” Day after day TV news and the papers have pumped out context-free death figures: no historical comparisons, no comparisons with other epidemics, no comparisons with other kinds of flu, no comparisons between age groups, weeks old fatality figures mixed in with the current day’s. The only people who have a clear picture are those who actually go looking for the facts.

I can’t believe that the government, with all the expertise and means at its disposal, lost this information war. One suspects it never meant to win?

48874 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Bugle, 6, #199 of 1305 🔗

The SAGE sub-committee of behavioural scientists advised the government to use fear to ensure compliance with its lockdown measures. There is no need to suspect; it is a matter of public record.

48941 ▶▶▶ duncanpt, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #200 of 1305 🔗

But in their extreme wisdom never seem to have considered how to reverse the process later on.

49609 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to duncanpt, #201 of 1305 🔗

They are publicly admitting that, as they struggle to get offices populated again. I think they’re just realising that footfall is the lifeblood of town centres – after showing us that working from home is possible and much cheaper.

49542 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Bugle, #202 of 1305 🔗
48637 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #203 of 1305 🔗

Cases of child malnutrition in England double in last six months
https://bit.ly/32cVvty

Almost 2,500 children have been admitted to hospital with malnutrition in the first six months of the year – double the number over the same period last year – prompting fresh concern that families are struggling to afford to feed themselves and that the pandemic has intensified the problem.

The dramatic increase this year is unsurprising. The number of households with children going hungry doubled during lockdown, as millions of people struggle to afford food.

48641 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #204 of 1305 🔗

Malnutrition in children is heartbreaking, but is more likely to be a result of a constant diet of pizza and sweeties, not affordability.

48657 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to bluemoon, 3, #205 of 1305 🔗

I’m always surprised by the number of children I see having breakfast at nursery when I drop my daughter off. I would say about half the children are being fed from what I’ve see.

You may well be right that parents are feeding their kids junk but the closure of schools is almost certainly exacerbating the problem. Affordability is and will become more of an issue as income drops due to everything that’s happened.

49621 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to bluemoon, #206 of 1305 🔗

That’s very high handed. Many people are struggling on tight budgets.
The more affluent working from home are juggling increased workload, including conference calls, home schooling and also cooking nutritious meals.

48729 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #207 of 1305 🔗

Then it is the lockdown to blame, rather than the virus?

49445 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #208 of 1305 🔗

That’s going to be an even bigger problem as more and more people lose their jobs.

48639 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #209 of 1305 🔗

Right. Sorry. Sturgeon Clap. No one gives a care anyway, I know. But. Have just remembered it was a thing to happen yesterday. Not a thing heard near me. So I’ve asked around, seems I’m the only one to remember it was a thing – no one heard anything. It’s important to keep track of this stuff.

48643 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 5, #210 of 1305 🔗

No sign of it in my neck of the woods

48651 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #211 of 1305 🔗

Thumbs down???

48702 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #212 of 1305 🔗

Thumbs up.

Thumbs down me though… it is next week. I thought it last night. But no. Still to come. Apologies I couldn’t find the post to delete after Realising my error.

48747 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, #213 of 1305 🔗

No worries, people I have spoke to are in the wtf camp. As mentioned i’m a Londoner living in Scotland, I have no political opinion, just a sense of right and wrong.

48768 ▶▶▶▶▶ Philip Baynes, replying to Basics, 2, #214 of 1305 🔗

Yes, next week – on July 19th which is her birthday. Creepy.

48842 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Philip Baynes, #215 of 1305 🔗

Creepy indeed. Should our Scots friends just ignore the pantomime? Or counteract with a resounding ‘Bronx Cheer’?
(Who me, officer?)

49068 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to Philip Baynes, #216 of 1305 🔗

Creepy indeed. Very Kim Jong-Un. I’ll reserve my clapping for when I see the tumbrils rolling the rogues at Holyrood (&Westminster) to the scaffold.

48981 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Basics, #217 of 1305 🔗

It’s next week, but as I didn’t do the creepy clap for the NHS, I’m certainly not starting for Wee Jimmie on her birthday. Presume there will be enough SNP Arschleckers that will make it worthwhile for the supine Scottish MSM to report a glowing success in the People’s Republic of Scotland.

48640 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #218 of 1305 🔗

UK test numbers overstated by 2 million.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08kdnbp

48671 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 1, #219 of 1305 🔗

Link takes me to “Sweden’s lockdown lite”

Have they removed or moved the story?

49097 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #220 of 1305 🔗

No. Thats is to listen to. The bbc figures out the gov overstated tests by 2 million. In first 5 mins of 15 min radio prog. Its interesting.

48644 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #221 of 1305 🔗

Hidden away in a new article about Krankie Wee tackling ‘English’ daring to transport c19 into Scotland is a tiny bit about Scottish Care home deaths. The astute will notice the mechanisms of SNP at work. They go like this, yes Sotland care homes have been a disaster, we did put c19 into homes killing many, but The English did it more, worse and betterer.

From the guardian:

“The Scottish government has been criticised for its policy early in the pandemic of discharging hospital patients into care homes without being tested for coronavirus. Almost half (46%) of Covid-19 deaths in Scotland have been connected to care homes, according to the National Records of Scotland.

“Asked about her government’s record, Sturgeon said she regretted and apologised for every death from Covid-19. But she added: “What I absolutely refute is that there was some particular problem in Scotland or that we didn’t take great care.”

“She said excess deaths in care homes were lower in Scotland than in England, with Scotland attributing more of them to coronavirus.”

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jul/12/no-immediate-plan-to-quarantine-english-visitors-says-sturgeon

48653 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Basics, 3, #222 of 1305 🔗

Note the use of the word ‘particular’

48660 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Cecil B, 3, #223 of 1305 🔗

Note the misuse of ‘refute’

48710 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Alec in France, 2, #224 of 1305 🔗

You guys are good! Alec and D barton.

Both examples speak to the mindset we all recognise. I think sturgeon has something worrying her in the back of her mind. She is againg rapidly.

48988 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Basics, 1, #225 of 1305 🔗

Yes, she looked awful yesterday on the news, but serves her right for not delegating the task to anyone else. The Wuflu response in Scotland rests squarely on her shoulders on no-one else’s.

49018 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 8, #226 of 1305 🔗

I hope her bloody mask gives her hypoxia and every other pox that is available.

48670 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 4, #227 of 1305 🔗

Remember all the headlines about how Sweden got it wrong when they admitted they should have done better with care homes?

But Scotland got it right because…well I don’t know why it’s different for Scotland. Maybe they could justify it by saying we saved thousands of lives so that offsets the care home deaths. Not sure if that would hold up in court though.

48758 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #228 of 1305 🔗

For anyone labouring under the delusion that Scotland got it spectacularly right, the following article on Scandanavian comparisons is a tin lid :

http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/nordic_comparison_4jul.html

Of course – what has become increasingly obvious (much as one would like to pin sins of commission on government) – broadly speaking, government measures were largely irrelevant to the progress of the virus overall. The sins have actually been those concerned with the issue here – the use of a virus as a smokescreen for social experimentation.

48984 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Basics, 2, #229 of 1305 🔗

Note the way she turns it to figure where Scotland is lower. It is always independence with her – always.

48646 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 36, #230 of 1305 🔗

Meanwhile, over at the Telegraph, Mr Hancock is struggling to justify himself:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/12/acting-collectively-test-trace-will-keep-covid-cornered/

Top comment so far:
So many diseases need more money for research and you’ve spent billions on this madness, this pathetic virus, while people with other illnesses are still being ignored by the NHS.I feel nothing but loathing for you and your mates Hancock.

Second most popular:
Mr Hancock, the figures are now in. This bug has a mortality rate of 0.05%. Do you understand that? Why aren’t we locking down for flu every year? Can you not see the inconsistency?

Third most popular:
Pillock. You should be locked up for countless violations of our civil liberties over nothing, you nasty little jumped up dictator.

After this, the comments start to get really personal!

48650 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #231 of 1305 🔗

His biggest problem is that he doesn’t know he’s a tosser

48654 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cecil B, 9, #232 of 1305 🔗

Reminds me of a Whitbread advert playing in the North East in the 1980s, with a bus-load of very drunk ‘Southerners’ heading home after a day out ‘up North’. Voice-over from the Likely Lad’s James Bolam, ‘there are those that know, and those that don’t know …. and those that don’t know they don’t know’.

49021 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #233 of 1305 🔗

Could somebody kindly tell him, then?

48658 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 29, #234 of 1305 🔗

This is a good comment

Hancock – I really cannot express what I think of you as a politician or as a person because the most accurate and appropriate vocabulary would not pass the moderators

There are people who have a lack of empathy so absolute that they carry out acts of breathtaking cruelty against their fellow humans and I would include you in that group.

The evidence for this is the on going suffering of thousands and thousands of people with untreated and undiagnosed cancer heart disease and so many other painful and life threatening conditions and all because you denied them access to healthcare.

I believe you to be a liar and you have used the lie of this virus to imprison the people of this country and to destroy their livelihood,freedoms and happiness.

One day soon you will face a reckoning and I and many others will have our revenge.

48682 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to ambwozere, 9, #235 of 1305 🔗

HandonCock never grew up from being the primary school milk monitor, a position he always held as his primary step to grateness (yes) and is in dire need of a smack upside his dunderhead

48693 ▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to ambwozere, 5, #236 of 1305 🔗

Wonderful comment , one which I wholeheartedly endorse .

49452 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ambwozere, #237 of 1305 🔗

Excellent comment and indeed he will have his reckoning especially as he now has the blood of millions on his hands.

48725 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #238 of 1305 🔗

I’m loving this thread! Since I absolutely do NOT love Hancock…

48655 Catherine Young, replying to Catherine Young, 13, #239 of 1305 🔗

The Surrey hospital Consultants’s comments are explosive, if correct. I’ve earned my Lockdown Sceptic badge (ask my family!) so this is not a troll response. But if one Consultant is threatened, then they all are. I see why lower skilled workers would feel intimidated against speaking out but can it really be that a body of highly articulate professionals with significant collective clout would allow themselves to be silenced as suggested? And empty blue light ambulances being utilised solely to instil fear in the local population? I’m normally enthusiastic about sharing Toby’s great efforts but am worried that we open ourselves up to ridicule with incendiary but completely unsubstantiated claims such as these examples.

48659 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Catherine Young, 2, #240 of 1305 🔗

They are b*llshit, originally came from David Icke’s site, then another purveyor of the truth, The Bernician, published them.

Can’t believe Toby would publish this sh*t!!!!!!

48661 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to daveyp, 4, #241 of 1305 🔗

Here’s the original: https://davidicke.com/2020/07/11/nhs-consultant-on-the-truth-behind-the-covid-pandemic/

The thing I liked about this site is that we used reason and evidence to back up our anti-lockdown stance, but if this kind of horse sh*t is going to start be used then I’m out of here.

48675 ▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to daveyp, 4, #242 of 1305 🔗

Same here, there’s a real risk of undermining all the previous hard work.

48683 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Jon G, -1, #243 of 1305 🔗

I’ve just seen one of my comments being down voted as I questioned Icke’s ability to tell the truth. If that’s the way this site is going, and this is the type of person we are attracting, then sadly it’s bye bye from me!

48687 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to daveyp, 8, #244 of 1305 🔗

Like any site, there are a mixture of readers. Some from the left, middle, right and some who wouldn’t fit into any of those brackets as their views are rather ‘extreme’ (for want of a less inflammatory word). This site of course has few rather aggressive types on it, it certainly has people who flippantly make comments about doing away with those they don’t like, and there’s without doubt overly aggressive posters in the comments.

I’d not let it put you off the scepticism but the comments section can be a bit of a worrying place sometimes, that said it has defo lead me to some great content and many on here are very thoughtful and considered in what they post and can help ones mental state during this nonsense.

48688 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Mark II, 2, #245 of 1305 🔗

Yeah any site has a proportion of nutters below the line, the point is: the blatantly false whistle blower story was what Toby led with today! That’s just shoddy, and risks making the whole bloody site look like a joke.

49009 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jon G, #246 of 1305 🔗

And a proportion of 77-ers too.

Please to itemise the blatantly false bits.

48689 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Mark II, 2, #247 of 1305 🔗

The comments are the least of my worries.

We’ve positioned ourselves on here so that we are following the evidences and not the lies and emotions.

Toby using an article from Icke is though. If I’m going to believe this I might as well just go back to reading the papers and believing everything the MSM tell me.

Surely Toby and his minions should’ve done a quick Google search, like I did, before publishing this which would’ve shown them it was from Icke?

49013 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, #248 of 1305 🔗

“Evidences” ? I’d prefer we positioned ourselves on correct English, but there you go …

49005 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, #249 of 1305 🔗

Oh no. Gutted.

48678 ▶▶▶▶ Jenny, replying to daveyp, 2, #250 of 1305 🔗

I agree Davey. We do not want to be associated with the David Ickes of the world. There are plenty of reasoned and substantiated materials. We don’t need this.

48694 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to daveyp, 32, #251 of 1305 🔗

Can I add an opinion ? I am a medical professional who has worked from the beginning of this show spectacle.

The comments made by this consultant are reflective of the truth but of course there are some comments I would question . They certainly are more accurate than your average BBC or Sky report. They are similar to comments made to me privately by a consultant surgeon at my local DGH.

There are some exaggerations. Admissions are not 95 % down overall , but I suppose if you were a surgeon you might observe this because cancelling all electives would lead to this as a possible outcome. I also think the empty ambulances running around with their blue lights is not accurate but it might have started by using the quiet period to train some new paramedics and then the story gets distorted.

Most of the rest I think is OK.

48700 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Peter Thompson, 12, #252 of 1305 🔗

I know that I have previously been critical of the medical profession and you have rightly taken me to task and pointed out that many, or most, doctors are hard-working and honest. I do not argue with that. Thanks for giving a doctor’s perspective on the Surrey consultant’s comments. We need more doctors on this site to give the view from inside the NHS.

48707 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #253 of 1305 🔗

Reading it again, it seems to me to be a composite somehow, of different experiences from different sources, brought together in one devastating article.

48722 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to bluemoon, 1, #254 of 1305 🔗

“Standing alone in my office on a Thurday night listening to the clapping”. Hmm, people sit in their offices don’t they? It feels like a planted story. Perhaps this truly is what 77th Brigade get up to.

Easy for the Surrey consultant to stand up and be counted now. I would be happy to apologise if all is as presented.

48735 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Basics, 1, #255 of 1305 🔗

Dickens was an advocate of standing desks, we use them too, much healthier. https://www.techradar.com/news/best-standing-desk

48743 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #256 of 1305 🔗

Yes, and people stand before they sit and afterwards too. My point remains.

Top tip for ending a phone call you cant get off, Stand up. As old as the hills but works. Oddly not possible if you were already standing.

49062 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Basics, 1, #257 of 1305 🔗

Sitting at one’s desk and suddenly hearing a sound like a downpour or a thousand performing seals might well make one stand and look out of the window to try to work out what on earth was happening.

48817 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hugh_Manity, replying to bluemoon, 1, #258 of 1305 🔗

Yes. Whoever initially posted this story is irrelevant. The main point is the fact it is anonymous, so it is unable to be verified. It may be a fake or it may be genuine. It might be genuine but exaggerated/tweaked for effect. Who knows? Unless and until this person or persons like him/her are willing to stand up and be counted and take responsibility for what they say, such articles should be taken with a shovel full of salt. Leave it in the “pending” tray for the time being.

48820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Hugh_Manity, 2, #259 of 1305 🔗

Toby has seen common sense and removed it now thankfully.

48712 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jon G, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #260 of 1305 🔗

The point is, the report needs to be genuine to be meaningful. I’d guess that many of the claims are indeed fairly accurate, but if we’re just guessing what’s the point? Bullshit reports like this tend to be grounded in reality, onto which they build lies and misinformation.
This just undermines the reality you speak of.
Did you read the report? Absolutely no way it was written by an NHS consultant.

48802 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Jon G, 3, #261 of 1305 🔗

I think it was likely written by a middle grade from a Surgery department . I also think from the style he or she is an overseas trained Surgeon. As stated there are reflections of the truth and it is just as valid as most reportage from Sky/ BBC but there is also hearsay and exaggerations.

49219 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Peter Thompson, #262 of 1305 🔗

Peter, might you be able to give your thoughts to Simon Dolan for his appeal..?

48695 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to daveyp, 4, #263 of 1305 🔗

The claims look credible – but I may be suffering from confirmation bias. Completely agree that the original source makes it deeply dubious though and best avoided

48706 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to matt, 3, #264 of 1305 🔗

From medical professionals I’ve talked to too it sounds credible, but no one is going to whistleblow to Icke. If there identity was discovered that would be a bigger career suicide than the whistleblowing.

48717 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to daveyp, 4, #265 of 1305 🔗

This is a good and reasonable point. But the point in itself isn’t evidence of anything. Realistically the Surrey source needs to be verified. It can be done annonymously.

I suggest it has become incumbent on the Surrey Consultant to stand behind their words, anonymously if needs be. Anything less lacks credibility as has been discussed.

Thank you DaveyP for bringing up the complete issue here. Extremely worthwhile.

49026 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, 1, #266 of 1305 🔗

He claims many do. Not a few even allow their names to be used.

To me it seems naive to believe whistleblowing is without consequence, especially in the military, financial, medical, academic, pharmaceutical, political, arenas.

48709 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to daveyp, 11, #267 of 1305 🔗

Playing the devil’s advocate here, it’s not a comment on if the whistleblower is true or making it all up.

Say you were a whistleblower, you tried to get your story out into mainstream media and had no success, TV not interested, bosses not interested, investigative journalists not interested, MPs not interested, Police not interested, local newspapers and radio not interested, social media accounts monitored and censored and so on and you don’t know what to do next – then who do you turn to to get published and things into the public eye?

You turn to someone like David Icke (he’s not the only one out there though, there are others who would have listened but they are hard to find. David Icke is probably the most high profile except for Alex Jones who is questionable at times) who will listen and if they think it’s a credible source and story they will publish and be damned and the whistleblower hopes it’s then picked up onto more mainstream or “credible” sites.

UK Column and Corbett Report have been going for years but how many out there in sceptic land had heard of them before 4 months ago? I will admit to not ever heard of them before the “pandemic” started and I’ve done lots of individual research on topics that interest me that the mainstream won’t publish so if you are someone who has only ever used MSM for information who do you turn to?

A well known name.

48751 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #268 of 1305 🔗

Sorry to be cynically flippant – but “ investigative journalists” isn’t that an oxymoron these days?

48814 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to RickH, #269 of 1305 🔗

Yep, few and far between nowadays.

48787 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Awkward Git, #270 of 1305 🔗

The last thing you would do is turn to Icke, just by going there no one will ever take you seriously.

Do you seriously think that someone in the MSM would not take the opportunity with this kind of political gold dust to bring Johnson and Cummings down with all outlets still be dominated by Pro-Remainers?

Even if the MSM wouldn’t take the story, and if you wanted to get the story out there, then you would approached someone like Toby or other members of the FSU to get it out there

48811 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to daveyp, 4, #271 of 1305 🔗

As stated earlier my suspicions are that a surgeon penned the article in question .I have met and worked with many surgeons over the years ( it was never a vocation which appealed ) . I can say that a small minority are actually batshit crazy , however more loopies are attracted to public health .

48821 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to daveyp, 1, #272 of 1305 🔗

I always get the feeling the MSM will only go with a story if it meets the hidden narrative as all political parties are just different faces of the same establishment.

Narrative at the moment is keep Boris in power, government done everything right.

If/when an inquiry starts with a remit to bring down Boris, Government policy killed people and so on then these stories will re-appear and be published.

49033 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, 1, #273 of 1305 🔗

The more you post, Davey, the more I hear 77…77…

49694 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #274 of 1305 🔗

I’d been thinking that for quite a while!

48795 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, #275 of 1305 🔗

You make a great point AG

48843 ▶▶▶▶ flyingjohn, replying to daveyp, #276 of 1305 🔗

Not there. Error 1020.

48727 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to daveyp, 2, #277 of 1305 🔗

I refreshed the page, and this part seems to have been deleted. Which is good, because it didn’t appear to have been verified. Also the figures on estimation of Covid risk have been corrected, which is also good. Thanks, Toby.

48736 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sally, #278 of 1305 🔗

Yes its gone Sally. Toby has done the right thing.

48788 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Basics, -1, #279 of 1305 🔗

Yes, good to see that common sense has prevailed. Should never have been there in the first place though.

48892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, 4, #280 of 1305 🔗

Bollocks. I’d estimate Icke has a 95% accuracy rate for his predictions over the last 30 years.

Apart from not learning how to spell shit, Davey, what have you done ?

49108 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to JohnB, #281 of 1305 🔗

Nothing John, I’ve done fuck all

49494 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, #282 of 1305 🔗

That’s more like it. Asterisks are for those who haven’t grown up yet.

48663 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Catherine Young, 4, #283 of 1305 🔗

It’s right to be wary. First thing I would look for are signs from friends/family of the medical profession spreading such information, even if it’s just hearsay. But I’ve not really seen anything and I do a lot of reading on this subject.

48771 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Catherine Young, 17, #284 of 1305 🔗

Okay – everything that that Surrey hospital consultant has claimed is familiar to me. I’ve been aware of such claims since the beginning of the lockdown.

In my local hospital, the A&E was empty for the first two weeks of the lockdown. It then picked up gradually and is more or less back to normal now – this was gleaned from a personal conversation with an A&E nurse in the A&E waiting room, a few weeks ago.

It is absolutely true that NHS staff at high levels have been warned from above not to talk to the media about any Covid issues. A very close and trustworthy relative who works in the NHS in a top-tier environment has been told they would suffer grave consequences for doing this.

Ambulances running empty to cause panic – I heard that rumour from someone (face to face conversation) three months ago at the start of the lockdown. They were in a position to know about these sort of things, but I cannot for the life of me remember who it was! Anyway, this is not new news to me.

Elective surgeries cancelled – totally true. I’ve met several people suffering because their treatment was delayed (e.g. bowel cancer). My NHS relative has been aware of this since the start of the lockdown, but has been gagged from whistleblowing. Again, not news to me.

Death certificates marked up as covid despite the patient dying of something else and being tested NEGATIVE – again, confirmed by my relative – they were telling me about it only a few days ago.

Apart from the repeated testing of a single patient being marked up as separate Covid cases, I can vouch for every single one of that consultant’s claims, and I have known that this happens in our hospitals since the start of the lockdowns.

48778 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Mr Dee, -1, #285 of 1305 🔗

Yeah, it may be familiar, and most of us have heard these things too, so not very difficult for me to pretend to be an anonymous consultant whistleblower and send a story into a sh*t show like Icke’s site.

The problem we have is that there isn’t actually any Doctors or Consultants speaking out, and Toby shouldn’t be peddling sh*t from Icke!

48801 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to daveyp, 2, #286 of 1305 🔗

Yes, I totally agree. Everything on this site has to be absolutely verifiable or we lose credibility. I have a soft spot for Icke (my guilty secret!), though I take everything he says with a pinch of salt until I’ve personally backed it up with my own research. He’s served a purpose for me though – at the start of the Lockdown here in the UK, it was through Icke I was first made aware of Professor Sucharit Bhakdi, which then led me to Peter Hitchen’s fantastic blog, which led me to the Swiss Propaganda site and then, eventually to this site and others.

As far as I’m concerned, my enemy’s enemy is my friend. By the end of this we’re going to have to forge some unusual alliances to rescue our society from this madness. But you are right – we have to be careful not to give any ammunition to those inimicable to our values – they are watching and waiting and even a single mistake on our part can prove deadly to our cause.

49101 ▶▶▶▶▶ MrPudgy, replying to Mr Dee, #287 of 1305 🔗

I also have Icke to thank for leading me to other lockdown sceptics. At the very beginning of all this I had a gut feeling that something was very, very wrong with it and, surprising myself, I thought, “I wonder what Icke thinks about it”. Checked out his site and it has led me to many others (including this one, which has been hugely important to me).
I’m sure I would have felt truly alone and very despondent if I had not turned to him in the first place, and I will therefore always be grateful to him.

48886 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to daveyp, 8, #288 of 1305 🔗

Yes, fly in the ointment though is that Icke has a better track record for predictive accuracy than Prof Ferguson.

49053 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Mr Dee, -2, #289 of 1305 🔗

A&E departments did empty, elective surgeries were cancelled, relatives did question death certificates: all these are well documented and verified. There’s really no need to over egg the pudding with empty ambulances in an effort to ‘sinisterfy’ it and make it fit the deranged Ickean conspiracy narrative.

49222 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, #290 of 1305 🔗

Mr Dee, can you speak to Simon Dolan about your experiences, to help his appeal?

49533 ▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #291 of 1305 🔗

Let’s say the author is a consultant and what he says is true, how do you explain the tactics the health authorities need to resort to if coronavirus is the modern day black death eg classifying people as covid deaths when they were not, single tests being marked as separate and ambulances being sent out with sirens on to give the false impression they are responding to emergencies. If a disease is dangerous with a high fatality rate or severe symptoms in those who survive, you should never have to resort to fraud to show how dangerous a disease is.

48656 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #292 of 1305 🔗

Predictably though, the MSM spins all those study results on lower herd immunity thresholds, T- cells etc. as: goal not reached or no/ only shortterm immunity, therefore SD, masks& lockdown follies must continue until there’s a vaccine.
Not withstanding the increased likelihood that under such circumstances there probably can’t be an effective vaccine, and/as there is no need for it.

48742 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #293 of 1305 🔗

I reckon the vaccine notion for Covid is pretty well blown. Forget ideological positions on vaccines in general – its much simpler. Nobody in their right mind would assent to being vaccinated with a concoction that has been rushed through to production without lengthy RCTs – by which time such a concoction would, in any case, be irrelevant.

48822 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 2, #294 of 1305 🔗

I agree. But the plan appears to cause much irrational fear with the vaccine as the ticket out of that. The rest is irrelevant, at least in terms of the vaccine plan. The fact they are trialing and rolling out in 12 months if all goes to their plan means it will be a risk to public health. That point alone is testament to seriousness in which they are moving to have vaccines in people.

48823 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to RickH, #295 of 1305 🔗

One might think – but several (normally level-headed) friends would have no objection “if it meant being able to travel”.

49215 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 1, #296 of 1305 🔗

…Hence why we are being forced into masks for the foreseeable future. They are reckoning on people being so fed up with masks eventually that they will *beg* to be given the vaccine..

48665 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 11, #297 of 1305 🔗

Robert Buckland (who he I know you are asking) “It is all about increasing confidence. I think the more of us who do the courteous and responsible thing, the more people you’ll see venture out into shops.” So muzzling is all about making the bed wetters thinking that the naughty virus will be scared into not going through the wire mesh fence. Doesn’t he have any inkling that it will stop a lot of people going into shops (or claiming exemption)

48677 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to arfurmo, 2, #298 of 1305 🔗

He’s a lawyer and Justice Secretary so no idea what he knows about science:

https://www.robertbuckland.co.uk

This one from May with him dropping the Government in it:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8339625/Robert-Buckland-admits-government-CHOSE-NHS-care-homes.html

48680 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to arfurmo, #299 of 1305 🔗

“bed wetters”. Still. Oh dear…

48715 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Hoppity, #300 of 1305 🔗

As I suggested yesterday, I don’t think there’s anything to be gained by deriding non-sceptics.

48761 ▶▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Hoppity, #301 of 1305 🔗

Yep – bed wetters is a tad pejorative. “Snowflake” catches the meaning just as well.

48974 ▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to ScooBieDee, #302 of 1305 🔗

‘Fraid I don’t like ‘snowflake’, either. Why not (simply) ‘non-sceptics’?

49002 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hoppity, 3, #303 of 1305 🔗

Because their behaviour is sufficiently damaging to themselves, to others, and the economy, society going forwards, and future generations, that a little acerbity in choice of label is warranted. 🙂

49184 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to JohnB, 1, #304 of 1305 🔗

Sorry, I still don’t agree. The them v us dynamic is bad enough. When I was reading through coments yesterday, I found myself thinking that some of them were a bit sniffy/superior, and that there was a bit of an ‘in crowd’ thing going on. I work alongside people who haven’t the brains and/or had the education that would have them thinking for themselves, scutinising, questioning, etc.. I find their… propensity for ‘stupdity in adversity’ and their preference for ‘a quiet life’ hugely frustrating and annoying and depressing, but I don’t blame them for it. That’s all they know, they don’t know any better. And deriding them is not where it’s at, not in my book.

49489 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hoppity, #305 of 1305 🔗

Yes, I get where you’re coming from. (We all work alongside people with no brains. 🙂 ). Nobody in their right minds would use such terms in debate, argument, or discussion. Even a piece/article aimed at a general readership should probably avoid derision.

Yet a shorthand is needed for analysis/discussion among ourselves. And ‘non-sceptics’ isn’t specific enough.

48698 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to arfurmo, 19, #306 of 1305 🔗

Surely the people who are genuinely terrified of going out are in a minority now. In my area, the number of people in the town centre is almost back to normal levels and cars clog up the roads once more. Most who are out and about aren’t wearing masks. It really feels as if we’re inhabiting two separate worlds now – one in which everyone just wants to get on with it, and the horrendous fear-filled microcosm that the MSM has whipped up.

48705 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Poppy, 10, #307 of 1305 🔗

I would call them terminally terrified – and I’m thinking of oldies who now only open their door for their carers, and to take in the free groceries and occasional hot meals delivered by the community. These are people I know, who used to be happy to sit in the communal garden to chat and moan and laugh.

48813 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to bluemoon, 2, #308 of 1305 🔗

It is as you say bluemoon. And a motivation to keep reasoning back against this oppression.

49212 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to bluemoon, 1, #309 of 1305 🔗

Was talking to a work colleague today, his elderly parents have not left their home since March!

What are “we” doing to people.

49209 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Poppy, #310 of 1305 🔗

Must admit coming how from work today the roads do seem to be almost back to pre cv19 levels of traffic, I would say today was the worst day for road traffic since about the middle of March.

48748 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to arfurmo, 13, #311 of 1305 🔗

It will have precisely the opposite effect. It will maintain high fear levels and dissuade people from going to pubs, cafes and restaurants. That Johnson can’t see that is particularly worrying. If Cummings is advising him thus it’s doubly troubling.

48762 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to OKUK, 4, #312 of 1305 🔗

I am getting less and less impressed by Cummings!

49658 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to IanE, #313 of 1305 🔗

What do you mean, “getting”? (grin)

48666 Mark II, 8, #314 of 1305 🔗

The Conversation piece you link to Toby has this ridiculous little paragraph within it, I don’t think the article says what you thought it says… perhaps not reading it before linking?!

“The lockdowns enforced far and wide, combined with the responsible actions of many citizens, have undoubtedly mitigated the spread of SARS-CoV-2 and saved lives.”

The use of ‘undoubtedly’ here is disgraceful but is a common tactic, also being used by those pushing for masks (ie – ‘its now accepted masks are effective’) to quash proper scrutiny of such claims. It is _not_ undoubted that lockdowns mitigated spread, hence infections continuing to grow long after lockdowns were initiated and even in a tiny island like NZ it taking 3 (I think?) months of complete insane lockdown before it was gone. In fact, it’s also very easy to show theres no correlation between lockdown and ‘saved lives’, in fact, its probably going to be easier to show the opposite in due course.

That whole article basically says nothing, they sit firmly on the fence, attempt a little dig at Sweden but then have to concede to themselves it’s not run out of control there, attempt to praise lockdowns but cant really and come to no conclusion whatsoever.

48684 Guirme, replying to Guirme, 24, #315 of 1305 🔗

Our weekend family and friends get together from multiple households was completely normal. Hugged or shook hands on arrival, no social distancing, no masks, everyone circulating freely, virus never mentioned in any conversation. Great night. Welcome to the real Scotland

48732 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Guirme, 3, #316 of 1305 🔗

Great – but have in mind sympathy for those suffering from the Wee Krankie’s totalitarian streak – like performers having to wear masks.

48691 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #317 of 1305 🔗

I was trying to find out how it’s going in Spain on the petition to the ICC to investigate charges of genocide against their aging population during the “pandemic”.

Found this site:

https://www.genocidewatch.com/twelve-ways-to-deny-genocide

and this I found interesting (I’ve deleted all the blurb under each section):

“Israel Charny outlines the tactics of denial in “Templates for Gross Denial of a Known Genocide: A Manual,” in The Encyclopedia of Genocide, volume 1, page 168.

1. Question and minimize the statistics.

2. Attack the motivations of the truth-tellers.

3. Claim that the deaths were inadvertent,
as a result of famine, migration, or disease, not because of willful murder.

4. Emphasize the strangeness of the victims.

5. Rationalize the deaths as the result of tribal conflict,
coming to the victims out of the inevitability of their history of relationships.

6. Blame “out of control” forces for committing the killings,
distancing responsibility from the government.

7. Avoid antagonizing the genocidists, who might walk out of “the peace process.”

8. Justify denial in favor of current economic interests.

9. Claim that the victims are receiving good treatment,
while baldly denying the charges of genocide outright.

10. Claim that what is going on doesn’t fit the definition of genocide.

11. Blame the victims.

12. Say that peace and reconciliation are more important than blaming people for genocide.”

Some of these are being used by the the UK government today. let’s play a game and spot which ones?

48699 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #318 of 1305 🔗

I’m going with 2, 6, 9, 11, 12, 10, 3, 5, 8, 4, 7

1 is only being half used by the government, because they’re trying to maximise the stats to keep is all indoors and scared of dust under the bed. Just in case.

48716 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #319 of 1305 🔗

I was giving 1 a 50/50 as they seemed to play down the care home numbers until caught out.

48741 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, #320 of 1305 🔗

But they’re upping the numbers for the rest of us :o))

48692 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #321 of 1305 🔗

Not a smoker myself but this could piss people off and has implications on the Nanny State controlling everything. Definitely worthy of debate and keeping an eye on developments:

Smoking Could Be Banned Outside Pubs And Cafes Under New Law
https://bit.ly/3fqO2eh

“Councils will be able to set local conditions for licences. As set out in supporting guidance, councils should consider public health when setting these conditions.”

48714 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #322 of 1305 🔗

Baroness Northover is a sad woman, isn’t she ? If only her private life was a little more fulfilling, maybe she wouldn’t feel the need to control and micro-manage everyone else’s behaviour.

(Yes, a smoker writes …).

48757 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnB, 6, #323 of 1305 🔗

Well, I am not a smoker, but for heaven’s sake government, GET OFF OUR BACKS!!!!

48881 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #324 of 1305 🔗

Smoking has a protective effect, so any attempt to ban smoking means they want Covid to occur more often.
https://www.qeios.com/read/Z69O8A.13

48972 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #325 of 1305 🔗

Granny killers ! 🙂

48708 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 9, #326 of 1305 🔗

Travel press doing their utmost to make it look like holidays to the Balearics are near normal:

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/378493/comment-if-youre-happy-going-to-your-local-youll-be-comfortable-on-a-package-holiday

Unfortunately far from it and I certainly won’t book my clients there unless they insist and sign a disclaimer absolving me from any blame if the holiday is not as they expected.

48746 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Sarigan, 4, #327 of 1305 🔗

Such a shame, I loved Majorca when I went last year but I won’t be visiting again until these restrictions are removed permanently.

49029 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 3, #328 of 1305 🔗

I’d as soon visit the devil in hell as Faceless España.
I’m booked to go on a deferred riding holiday in Spain next May. If muzzles are sttill around by April – perish the thought! – I shall cancel.

49102 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Sarigan, 1, #329 of 1305 🔗

Spain is nowhere near normal. I wouldn’t recommend a holiday here.

48719 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 11, #330 of 1305 🔗

Just popped into Cheshire Oaks to take a couple of items back and was heartened to see the lack of muzzle wearing customers. 99.99% – no masks. Only the poor staff were having to wear them. Many shops seem to have given up on one way systems too, although queuing outside is still a thing. But getting better …..

48730 ▶▶ RickH, replying to CarrieAH, 6, #331 of 1305 🔗

A reflection of my experience. About the only bright spot in this sad passage of affairs has been the number of people who are, in practise, *not* wearing masks. The sampling has been done from a car on a number of short journeys.

Perhaps this explains why there seems to be some caution in government about further totalitarian measures involving masks : the underground resistance is quite strong, despite the evident general level of fear.

Keep spreading the message

48765 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, 7, #332 of 1305 🔗

That’s encouraging!

I was speaking to someone last night, who had met up with a friend in Ilkley. She regards shop browsing as an enjoyable leisure activity and so they went for a mooch among the shops, only to find that they were handgelled in every doorway.

They had to queue to get into shops and, because of limited numbers, often were not allowed in together. After being gelled and separated several times, they’d had enough. Because it was such a horrible experience, they just went back to her friend’s house for a cuppa.

Interestingly, despite all the frantic handgelling, segregation and treating customers like they had the plague, every shop was perfectly happy to accept cash!

48721 Tim Drayton, replying to Tim Drayton, 4, #333 of 1305 🔗

The following instruction appears on a request for information from an investment company:

“Important: Include the following copy in your email to us: ‘Please find attached my ‘Tax declaration and self-certification for individual investors’ in respect of my XXXX product. Due to the coronavirus pandemic 2020, I am unable to handwrite my signature onto the attached application form. Please regard this email as my signature.'”

Seemingly, there is a new addition to the arcane rites of the covid cult. The virus now for some obscure reason prevents a signature from being handwritten onto a form!

49702 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tim Drayton, #334 of 1305 🔗

It’s all that handgel!

48767 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to Tom Blackburn, #336 of 1305 🔗

Takes you to a poll on masks. Unfortunately you need a Twitter account to be able to vote

48786 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #337 of 1305 🔗

MASKS

 Those with twitter accounts please vote!

48797 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Victoria, 2, #338 of 1305 🔗

I did vote, would vote multiple times if I could. For masks is still higher than no masks currently.

48734 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #339 of 1305 🔗

The “Opposition” seem more determined to drag us all into bankruptcy than the Cabinet. Read this and weep:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/13/michael-gove-remarks-prompt-calls-clarification-face-covering-advice

It was understood that Johnson was due to make a further announcement on the topic this week, but sources at No 10 suggested this was unlikely to happen.

Which leaves plenty of room for the MSM to “nudge” us all into begging for it!

48738 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #340 of 1305 🔗

Don’t forget the opposition wanted a harder lockdown earlier. No political party represented in parliament comes out of this smelling good.

48750 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 10, #341 of 1305 🔗

I hope that, if there ever is an enquiry, it includes all the parties that egged on the genocide and destruction of the economy.

Not just the Cabinet and its pet scientists. But also the other political “leaders” who failed to look out for the longterm needs of the electorate. Also the backbench MPs who sat complacently at home ignoring their constituents.

I hope it includes the MSM, not just for its part in the active fearmongering propaganda but also for denying a voice to those who wanted to speak out but were denied a platform.

48792 ▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #342 of 1305 🔗

It also needs to include NHS, PHE, GP’s for their utter uselessness in ‘not’ caring for the population.

48752 ▶▶▶ Philip Baynes, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #343 of 1305 🔗

It’s astonishing (or maybe not) that there isn’t a single dissenting voice amongst the 650 MPs.

48794 ▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Philip Baynes, 4, #344 of 1305 🔗

I’ve emailed & written to my MP 6 times during this farce & have yet to receive a reply other than the automated response.
She won’t be in at the next election! Utter crap.

48943 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to smileymiley, 2, #345 of 1305 🔗

I’ve just emailed my MP I know it’s a waste if time but I wanted to register my views on her government and the coronavirus . I’m not expecting a response.

49488 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Philip Baynes, 1, #346 of 1305 🔗

Never received a reply from my MP. I’m never going to vote for that joker again ever.

49704 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Philip Baynes, #347 of 1305 🔗

Would they be able to make themselves heard if there were?

48827 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #348 of 1305 🔗

I’m going to e-mail Boris and tell him my opinion for what it is worth – https://email.number10.gov.uk – at least an assistant may perhaps give him some of the correspondence if enough of us do it.

48894 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #349 of 1305 🔗

Said my piece to him, don’t expect much except to be put on the gulag round-up for re-education list:

“Everyday more and more independent evidence come into the public domain that mask wearing will not stop virus transmission and is actually more harmful than good for the wearers not withstanding your “experts” opinions who are not quoting or using facts to drive this agenda and not withstanding the political ideology of those pushing for more mask wearing – i.e. Susan Michie who is a paid up in full member of the communist party of Great Britain and is a self-proclaimed specialist in changing behaviours and therefore is part of the psychological warfare being perpetrated on the British people to keep them scared. You want the economy to flourish? Stop the idiocy, stop the posturing, stop following the Bill gates agenda, admit it was all a big mistake and remove ALL restrictions that are in place and let those of us who nat to get on with things get on with it and let those who are scared of their own shadows stay at home and hide.”

49707 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #350 of 1305 🔗

Don’t waste your time. Better to write to your local councillors.

48744 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #351 of 1305 🔗

More “science”:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests

People who have recovered from Covid-19 may lose their immunity to the disease within months, according to research suggesting the virus could reinfect people year after year, like common colds. ….

“It does indicate that vaccines need to do better than natural infection, providing consistent responses in the majority of individuals and sustained levels of protective antibodies. Ultimately this may require the use of annual boosting immunisations, particularly for the most vulnerable. This could be delivered alongside annual influenza immunisations.”

48764 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #352 of 1305 🔗

Yearly booster jabs it is then and why not. Was asking last night about the ‘fading’ antibody story, it had gone missing. Good to have it back along side ike a faithful friend.

Tcells?

A cynic may say software has to updated on a yearly basis. But this is a skeptical not a cynical thread.

48775 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 11, #353 of 1305 🔗

The Guardian really have been unbearable throughout this, jumping on any hysterical story they can find.

This one is based on… errr, nothing at all I presume, given it’s just complete guesswork. I’m not gonna click and read it as I’ve decided to quite simply stop visiting the Guardian now, every click is justification for them, every visitor contributes to the ad revenue and thereby drives what they cover.

‘Immunity _could_ be lost in months’ is as strong a science as ‘mask might help contribute to reducing transmission’, they might as well run a story saying ‘world might implode in months’

48816 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 2, #354 of 1305 🔗

‘sky might fall on heads’

48819 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to JohnB, 3, #355 of 1305 🔗

…scientists say

48952 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark II, 4, #356 of 1305 🔗

It is based on a recently published paper by Kings College London. In the restrained language of scientific papers it suggests/supports the idea that CV19 is no ‘worse’ than the common cold. And, to me at any rate, it implies that it’s pretty pointless vaccinating against it.:
‘We suggest that this transient nAb response is a feature shared by both a SARS-CoV-2 infection that causes low disease severity and the circulating seasonal coronaviruses that are associated with common colds. This study has important implications when considering widespread serological testing, Ab protection against re-infection with SARS-CoV-2 and the durability of vaccine protection.’

49450 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bruno, 1, #358 of 1305 🔗

Thanks for that. So as suspected, The Guardian have disgracefully taken that and made a hysterical headline out of it.

48805 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #359 of 1305 🔗

Why am I not surprised.

48877 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #360 of 1305 🔗

“May” is doing a lot of work there.

49210 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #361 of 1305 🔗

Not what they are saying at the Karolinska institute in Sweden..

48760 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 5, #362 of 1305 🔗

Good morning everyone! I had some really great conversations with some of you by email yesterday, so I’m in a chipper mood today. There’s been a great response from people who want to meet up IRL, but – predictably – we’re pretty spread out. I’m working on putting those of you in roughly the same areas in touch with each other for meeting amongst yourself or possibly car-pooling.

Worcester is best meetup locations for most of us, being within the radius many said they would be willing to travel.

Any thoughts on Worcester? Who’s in?

And for anyone who missed the initial messages, if you want to meet up in real life, let me know where you are. You can also email me tylean .com .

48780 ▶▶ Edward, replying to TyLean, 1, #363 of 1305 🔗

Hi Tylean. I’ll email you later today.

49014 ▶▶ Adam, replying to TyLean, #364 of 1305 🔗

I’d be up for meeting in Worcester. Not a million miles away for me.

48766 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 10, #365 of 1305 🔗

Won’t be long now before we do have a day on which no Covid deaths occur in England’s hospitals. I predict it will happen some time in the next seven days.

Thanks for that info Toby – I will look out for the announcement on BBC News.

48791 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Old Bill, 3, #366 of 1305 🔗

Hahaha!
It will be drowned out by scary reports of “outbreaks” and “infections”.

48776 RickH, replying to RickH, 14, #367 of 1305 🔗

Re. the Sun – and Guardian – stories about Covid ‘Hot Spots’, a lengthy conversation with a friend who works in the Public Health sector confirmed what most of us thought :

(a) The data is out of date
(b) The data is crap, anyway (for all the multifarious reasons that we already know about Pillar 2 testing)

Beware any attempt to designate a ‘hot spot’ near you : it is indeed fake news.

48782 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to RickH, 10, #368 of 1305 🔗

Great information thanks.

Also do not go for testing!

48789 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 3, #369 of 1305 🔗

Thanks. Yesterday we were top of the list below Leicester, so the council will be quaking in their boots.

The numbers vary depending on the source but one thing’s for sure, they’ll respond with more testing and guess what ……

48784 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #370 of 1305 🔗

Did we know about this?
Cross-party group of MPs to lead first UK coronavirus inquiry https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/cross-party-mps-to-lead-independent-uk-coronavirus-inquiry

Organisers hope findings will be used to inform response to potential second wave
HMMM!

If you know anyone whose relative has died and been classed as a covid death, please see if there’s still time to get their complaints recorded. Same if they’ve died through lack of medical assistance.
https://www.marchforchange.uk/appg_coronavirus

Any feelings about this enquiry?

48803 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #371 of 1305 🔗

I imagine it’s gonna be a load of tokenistic finger pointing (didn’t lock down quick enough, PPE, best case a serious look at the care home issue) rather than a genuine examination of lockdown policy in general.

48825 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #372 of 1305 🔗

Don’t hold our breaths, it will be a white wash unless it is totally independent and excluding all political, think tank and current ‘scientists’ advising the Government

48865 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #373 of 1305 🔗

Well, MPs have done nothing useful regarding the panic, in fact quite the opposite. So anything led by MPs is unlikely to prove helpful to our cause.

48793 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #374 of 1305 🔗

Uber drivers made to wear face masks. Think it’s time to check your insurance policies.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53019227

IAM Roadsmart have no guidance on their website about this matter.

April 28th CDC in America were declaring drivers should not wear masks after a crash involved an issue with a mask.

48876 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 8, #375 of 1305 🔗

If you have a collision with an Uber, inform police other driver was wearing a mask and thus driving while impaired.

48907 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #376 of 1305 🔗

Obviously huge numbers of people drive. The question of masks and driving is one to share and question. It’s a topic that people will engage with.

48914 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 1, #377 of 1305 🔗

We could all phone our insurers and ask them ? (Worth saying we might be recording the call. 🙂 ).

48913 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #378 of 1305 🔗

Especially if it’s DaveyP …

48800 Steve Hayes, 18, #379 of 1305 🔗

Generally speaking people are terrible when it comes to appreciating relative risk. For example, terrorism kills on average approximately twenty-one thousand people per year. Most of those deaths are restricted to a few locations. Thus, the relative risk is de minimus. Yet polls consistently show that people think terrorism is a serious risk. Conversely, cars kill on average approximately one and a quarter million per year, and hardly anyone thinks cars are a serious risk. People generally judge risk intuitively rather than by looking at the facts. If the corporate media is full of stories of crime or terrorism, people will think they are massive problems and be worried. Few people will both to look at the statistical evidence. And the government and the corporate media are well aware of this. They have engaged in a campaign to terrorise the public with a constant stream of hysterical fear-mongering. This fear-mongering is a crime against humanity.

48808 Edward, 8, #380 of 1305 🔗

Dental hygienist appointment and checkup this morning, as a private patient. Instructions on door to ring them or knock on the door and wait at bottom of steps. Rang them, call seemed to be acknowledged. Waited 10 minutes, door opened, “You’re late!” No I’m not, look at my phone, I rang 14 minutes ago. Seems that knocking would have been better. Hands sanitised, temperature checked, jacket off and put in a plastic box. Hygienist with a visor, routine questions to start, then on with her medical mask. Difficult to hear what she’s saying, but not really a problem as I’m familiar with the routine. Except for a new setup with the mouthwash which I didn’t understand at first – rinse out from one plastic cup and spit into another (great! – more plastic waste). On to checkup – dentist also masked and visored but I could hear him OK.
Next ordeal will be a haircut – actually I think that will be OK as I’ve looked into the shop when passing and said hello to the owner who is a sensible woman. She wears a visor but no mask, and customers are not required to be masked.

48824 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 23, #381 of 1305 🔗

Can I make a call on all of you to challenge the narrative – whenever you see it – that we…. the people who know this mask bollocks has nothing to do with the virus…. are somehow “shy” or “intimidated.”

FUCK ANYONE who wants to say that to us…. the people who are actually being stared at for NOT wearing a nappy on our faces are the “shy” ones? We are the brave ones…. it actually takes STRENGTH to resist this pressure, and we are all feeling the pressure. This is goddamn gas lighting.

48837 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to TyLean, 9, #382 of 1305 🔗

Peoole are saying non mask wearers are shy?! I thought they were saying we were all mass murderers

48841 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Farinances, 8, #383 of 1305 🔗

I’m a mass murder. Been surreptitiously doing it for years every flu season. I don’t feel any remorse.

Unfortunately I’m not that social so don’t think I’m anywhere near the top of the league table.

48902 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Farinances, 4, #384 of 1305 🔗

I have seen it a few times now. Saying that we don’t have to feel embarrassed by the masks…. so patronising.

But yes, we’re shy mass murders. Like Dahmer.

48932 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TyLean, 1, #385 of 1305 🔗

Projection, writ very large. 🙂

48839 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to TyLean, 3, #386 of 1305 🔗

Well said. It is an interesting reflection our twisted culture that it confers heroic status on subversives and mavericks in fiction (particularly in Hollywood), yet in reality any such individuals are consistently scorned and marginalised. Never more so than in the current situation.

I wonder who will be the heroes in films of the future about this period?

49208 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Richard O, #387 of 1305 🔗

exactly

49886 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Richard O, #388 of 1305 🔗

The W.H.O.?

48847 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to TyLean, 23, #389 of 1305 🔗

This works for me:

49207 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, #390 of 1305 🔗

That is EXCELLENT – needs to be posted wherever possible!!! Tweet it, email it, share it!
PLEASE someone post it on Mason Mills’ Twitter account…

48830 Basics, replying to Basics, 19, #391 of 1305 🔗

Lidl announce they won’t enforce face coverings in Scotland. Excellent.

That they cannot enforce it anyway is by the by. To annouce this is a political choice at this stage. Welcome at that.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/lidl-scotland-face-masks-coverings-18584765.amp

48835 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 12, #392 of 1305 🔗

Yay. They have opened the door to more retail sanity! We hope

49205 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 1, #393 of 1305 🔗

They know it will increase their profits!!

48833 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 10, #394 of 1305 🔗

The beast hath been slain. (I had my hair cut).

Glad to report my hairdresser is firmly sound on covid. Thinks it’s totally bullshit. She also has some valuable personal insight as she cuts hair in many care homes. Apparently they were very polarised – those where it was complete carnage, and those who have had zero covid deaths. Basically she thinks the situation has magnified the competence (or incompetence) of individual care homes and staff – the good homes will have survived virtually unscathed despite the disastrous NHS discharge policy due to existing good practice, the bad homes will have revealed their existing shoddy practice.

So Boris may actually have had a point (although a thoroughly disingenuous one) when he blamed the care homes.

Shame about the Surrey guy. But hey you never know where Icke got it from- he could himself have posted it
from an existing source. We need to
find the original poster to be sure (which is virtually impossible lol). Don’t dismiss it out of hand though, I’ve always had an inkling Icke is more of a tabloid journalist than anything else – he can sniff a good story, genuine or not.

48858 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Farinances, 1, #395 of 1305 🔗

3.00 appointment today at the hairdresser but with the morning I’ve had I’m wondering if I should cancel it.

48909 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #396 of 1305 🔗

Or go and turn the conversation round to a sceptical viewpoint, you might get through to someone.

Let slip that guidelines are not enforceable and councils know this so they are trying to enforce them via the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 but this shoots themself in the foot as you do your own risk assessment and run with that like that boss in Glasgow. Perfectly legal and correct and councils and police cannot do shit except maybe hassle you but as it falls under the remit of the Health and Safety Executive and your researched risk assessments ays it’s OK the councils and police cannot do anything a they will not commit to anything in writing as required by the Public Health (control of Disease) Act 1984 as then compensation must be paid to cover your losses caused by their restrictions.

48834 flyingjohn, -1, #397 of 1305 🔗

Toby, why has the article and link to The Bernician (NHS Consultant Says Staff Are Being Silenced Over COVID-19) been removed from this post? It was there earlier today. Have you been knobbled?

48851 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 18, #398 of 1305 🔗

I’m desperately in need of a drink. We had the worst shopping experience in town and one I wont be repeating any time soon. If you want to be treated like a walking biohazard go to Homebase, the library and Specsavers. And if I hear “keeping everyone safe” I’ll swear l punch their freakin lights out! Im so pissed off with the stupidity of people, the mask wearing is worse than ever!

48872 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #399 of 1305 🔗

The correct reply to “Stay safe” is ” Stay sane”

48853 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #400 of 1305 🔗

From the Grad live. Data two weeks out of date is inexcusable!

The continuing city-wide lockdown of Leicester is “not justified”, its mayor, Sir Peter Soulsby, has said, after he was provided with government data that apparently shows the outbreak is only in a “couple of areas of the city”.

Soulsby told BBC Breakfast:

If we had known that weeks ago we could’ve actually dealt with it at that time and prevented this lockdown.

It’s very clear when you look at the data that it’s a couple of areas of the city that have got a higher than the average transmission of the virus, and certainly the way in which the city has been locked down in its entirety, and indeed beyond our boundary, is not justified.

Soulsby criticised the government for not passing on this data “many, many weeks ago”, adding that even now the information being provided to his health officials was incomplete and out of date.
He added:

I mean even the data we’re getting now is the best part of two weeks out of date, and we need to be knowing, on a day-by-day basis street-by-street basis, what that data is telling us and then we can tell whether or not, in those particular neighbourhoods, we’re actually combating the virus effectively.

We need to know the ethnicity of the people who are being tested, we need to know where they are working. There’s been all this talk about perhaps it’s passed on in factories, but we have no way of knowing that.

48854 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #401 of 1305 🔗

Good for you mayor man. Good for you.

48855 Cruella, replying to Cruella, #402 of 1305 🔗

I’m confused. Wasn’t there an additional bit from a whistle-blowing doctor in Surrey at the start of this post? Did I imagine that?

48859 ▶▶ Squire Western, replying to Cruella, #403 of 1305 🔗

Yes there was. It was very interesting. Where has it gone?

48862 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Squire Western, #404 of 1305 🔗

Oh good, I thought I’d lost my marbles.

48870 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cruella, 5, #405 of 1305 🔗

It was originally from a David Icke website, so was removed due to it being of dubious veracity, I assume. Here’s the original: https://davidicke.com/2020/07/11/nhs-consultant-on-the-truth-behind-the-covid-pandemic/
However, (and look for my comments on this below) there is virtually nothing in that article that I have not had confirmed from close contacts I have in the NHS, or from conversations with NHS staff and patients in my local hospital. Still – it’s all anecdotal at the moment – so not good enough for publication.

49204 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, #406 of 1305 🔗

Can you get any of your contacts to speak to Toby, or to Simon Dolan?

48856 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #407 of 1305 🔗

Ignore ONS post if seen, thought it was Tuesday!!

48933 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Sarigan, 2, #408 of 1305 🔗

Yep by year end total all cause deaths will be near enough 5 year average. Utter madness!

48857 Squire Western, replying to Squire Western, #409 of 1305 🔗

What has happened to the article written by the consultant in a Surrey hospital?

48875 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Squire Western, 8, #410 of 1305 🔗

it was a load of bullshit from David Icke, apparently, but to be fair to David Icke the royal family are lizards so don’t discount everything he says.

48864 HaylingDave, replying to HaylingDave, 7, #411 of 1305 🔗

Ah, FFS.

This is on the NHS blood donor’s website:

Do I have to wear a face mask?
Yes. You will need to wear a face covering when you donate. The face covering doesn’t have to be a surgical mask but should cover your nose and mouth.
This is in line with government guidance about wearing face covering indoors where social distancing isn’t always possible.

Peter Hitchens alerted this to “me”.

I’m a regular donor. This (early) March, I donated without any fuss: I was simply asked to use some gel.

This June, I donated without *much* fuss – 100% of the staff were wearing masks, and every donor but myself was also wearing one, as official advice was to “please wear a mask, but if you do not wear one, you will still be allowed to donate blood.”

And now the above. I’ve got my next appointment in September and really not sure what to do now – this is so bloody (no pun intended) depressing, as it’s a societal contribution I have a direct connection to and want to continue … but I flat out refuse to wear a nappie.

Sigh ….

Sorry, just needed a little venting.

48873 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to HaylingDave, 4, #412 of 1305 🔗

Maybe you should consider postponing your donation

49691 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Victoria, #413 of 1305 🔗

Yes since they have cancelled so many operations what on earth do they need the blood for? Go back when reality returns, if it ever does.

48883 ▶▶ Basics, replying to HaylingDave, 4, #414 of 1305 🔗

May be give them a call. Something might be possible. By raising the issue with them in person you are able to further the skeptic message.

49037 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to HaylingDave, 7, #415 of 1305 🔗

I have an appointment in August. My plan is to go maskless (ofc) and have an almost inevitable confrontation at the door in a very public way.

It will go something like this:
“If we are genuinely biohazardous, the *last* thing we should be doing is giving blood. If we’re allowed to give blood, why are we not allowed to not wear muzzles?”

My ichor is like gold to them (O negative CMV negative) so they are literally denying premature babies the blood of life if they refuse.

49124 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Farinances, 2, #416 of 1305 🔗

The other thing is, if I recall correctly, when you’ve given blood they let you sit for a while (used to be with a biscuit and a tea) in case you felt a bit woozy. Presumably wearing a mask will only make this wooziness even more likely.

49172 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to kh1485, 2, #417 of 1305 🔗

Will definitely make it harder to eat the biscuit.

49179 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to HaylingDave, 3, #418 of 1305 🔗

Come and donate in Wales. The advice here is specifically that you MUST remove any mask you are wearing before the donation can begin. The reason – the nurses have to be able to see your face so that they can be alerted if you start to feel faint whilst having blood drawn.

Not sure why Wales is giving different advice but it is. Even Hitchens has said he may well come and donate here.

48866 Biker, replying to Biker, 34, #419 of 1305 🔗

Went to Asda for some yogurt and tobacco, didn’t wear a mask, didn’t give a monkeys and felt no stress whatsoever. For those people worrying about it, let it go. Stop giving it another thought. They win if you worry and they win if you give in. Go your own way. Don’t stop. You’re not just another brick in the wall. Once you’ve done your shopping you’ll come out and feel like dancing.

48879 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 2, #420 of 1305 🔗

Well said.

The intuative writing of Pink floyd pretty well capture these times. Tragic comfort in listening.

Comfortably Numb seems particularly appropriate with regard to anti social distancing.

48903 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, #421 of 1305 🔗

It’s a pity Roger Waters is a brain dead zombie wanker. David Gilmour on the other hand is a god who walks among us.

48921 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, #422 of 1305 🔗

“Hello, is there anybody in there..?”

Isn’t that just perfect for now.

48958 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Basics, #423 of 1305 🔗

Blank for your own message. (No way of deleting?)

48970 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Basics, #424 of 1305 🔗

Nooo! Blasphemy! Pink Floyd (and ‘Comfortably Numb’) = quintessentially 1970s — a lifetime and world away from everything about the way things are now.

The music for social distancing should be some sort of dirgey electropop.

In other news, I’ve noticed that this website (or whatever it is) is misbehaving this morning, e.g. thumbs-up and thumbs-down counts changing, a thumbs-down changing into a thumbs-up (yes, really), and replies being posted against the wrong comment.

48880 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Biker, 6, #425 of 1305 🔗

Thanks Biker. Our local Tesco closes at 11pm each night, so I was thinking of slipping in maskless at about 10.30pm in the hope that there will be few customers about, just staff. I will go through the self checkout rather than face a checkout operator. I wish I ad your courage and aplomb but unfortunately I still feel uncomfortable and with stomach churning when I go in. Hopefully as time goes on I will get mote confident.

48887 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 10, #426 of 1305 🔗

Lidl have announced no enfircement in their shops. This translates to feel relaxed without a mask in our shops.

Biker is right. It is something to work on. Extraordinary as it is to work on feeling normal. Let it go indeed.

Perhaps a non local shop is easier?

48896 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Basics, 3, #427 of 1305 🔗

Good idea Basics. As it happens, there is a Lidl which is about 3 miles away in a neighbouring area, so I think I will give it a try. There is a local Aldi but I’ve read bad reports about over-zealous enforcement in some Aldi stores.

48898 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Gillian, 9, #428 of 1305 🔗

Gillian! just walk on down to Tescos anytime and don’t give it another thought, honestly. Maybe this is a test for those who seem to care what others think of them. I’ve never understood this. Maybe i’m on a spectrum of some kind but i am completely, blissfully unaware of how anyone perceives me and when occasionally i am aware, i don’t give two fucks. It’s not brave to do what you feel is right for you but it’s the only way to live your life. Notice how liberals are always on about diversity and all the rest of their bullshit but they’re all exactly the same. This is why they hate conservatives because conservatives are people who live life on their own terms and have a myriad of different opinions and beliefs with looking out your yourself being about the only thing we agree on.Liberals are all boring fucks without a backbone only to ready to cave into group think. If every man alive thinks the same and i’m the only person who thinks different you’ve got to be the type to say, hold own wait a minute here’s a dude who has something different to say lets listen to him. Having faith in groups of people is more idiotic than having faith in yourself.
Get your ass down to Tesco’s now and energise yourself with feelings of you are doing what is right for you. This can only make you the strong individual you need to be.

48920 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Biker, 13, #429 of 1305 🔗

Went into
Loughborough this morning to hand in some paperwork regarding our house move. Went into the Tesco in town, they have a one way system in & out but there’s no restrictions inside. Majority of the customers muzzle free but the worrying thing is the amount of young people with them on. Saw 5 children aged between 4 & 10 wearing muzzles! The parents ought to be shot!

48925 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to smileymiley, 2, #430 of 1305 🔗

Upvote – though shooting is maybe a tad too kind.

49492 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to smileymiley, #431 of 1305 🔗

Child abuse.

48882 Biker, replying to Biker, 13, #432 of 1305 🔗

You don’t have to obey the government you know. Who the fuck are these people anyway? Just because some balloons trip off to the ballot box every five years don’t mean fuck all to me. I don’t care how they justify their vampire government and their right to decide for me what i want because millions of idiots cast a vote. I’m with Jimi Hendrix when he sang “i’m the one that’s gotta die when it’s me time to die so i’m gonna wave my freak flag high”. I don’t need some plastic liberal and their we’re all in it together bullshit. I only need me, i don’t need Yoko either, only me.

49887 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Biker, #433 of 1305 🔗

Jimi Hendrix said: If six was nine, I don’t mind I got my own life to live and I ain’t going to copy you …

48885 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #434 of 1305 🔗

Is there already a cure for the CCP Virus?

Very interesting interview –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDSDdwN2Xcg&feature=emb_logo

48908 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #435 of 1305 🔗

Couldn’t that hypothesis easily be tested by checking if people that use inhaled steroids for asthma treatment have lower prevalence / severity of Covid ?

48986 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to jrsm, 2, #436 of 1305 🔗

They do– it’s something like 1% of severe cases out of 4% who use inhalers. But there could be other reasons for this of course.

Good explanation on MedCram the other day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG5pEDKbQv0

48994 ▶▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to guy153, #437 of 1305 🔗

Interesting, thanks.

48910 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #438 of 1305 🔗

Could indeed be the silver bullet but will it make it past the depths and censorship of youtube?

I am sure that will debunked and mark as disinformation and conspiracy, irrespective of truth.

48888 duncanpt, replying to duncanpt, 5, #439 of 1305 🔗

Herd immunity & Leicester:
I find it appalling that the Leicester situation could be due to an artefact as a result possibly of not having the context of an increasing number of tests performed.
1/ Without the number of tests performed (or rather, individuals tested), the number of positive tests is pretty useless as a public health measure, especially if you are going to close down a large area.
2/ That’s even more true when the number of positives starts to approach the level where false-positives can be a significant part of the number – you start to lose the clear signal.

3/ How on earth can a competent testing authority after so many weeks not have this data on total tests performed ready to hand in parallel with the number of positives? This is frankly shocking and someone needs to answer for it.

48900 ▶▶ John P, replying to duncanpt, 8, #440 of 1305 🔗

I e-mailed the mayor of Leicester this morning to point out that there are many people who might test positive for this virus, but who are asymptomatic and that there is good evidence that asymptomatic people cannot spread the virus.

Leicester City council is performing increased testing. This is bound to result in a greater number of positives which will not be measured elsewhere where tests are not being carried out on such a large scale.

It could keep Leicester in lockdown indefinitely, strangling the city.

There is no corresponding increase in hospitalisation and death.

49100 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to John P, 1, #441 of 1305 🔗

Keep it up, JohnP. What is the Leicester East MP, Claudia Webbe, doing about this, are you in contact with her too? (I know nothing about Leicester except what I read, but they are being treated unfairly ).

49295 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bruno, #442 of 1305 🔗

Thank you. No, only the mayor and my own MP, though I have fallen out with him.

Peter Soulsby – it is suspected – is a closet sceptic, so I think there is at least some possibility of him listening.

49199 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 1, #443 of 1305 🔗

I read on Simon Dolan’s Twitter feed that they are sending testers to people’s houses and offering tests – that must be resisted! Just another way to harvest people’s details and DNA by the back door…

49293 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, 1, #444 of 1305 🔗

Agree. Do not participate

48899 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, #445 of 1305 🔗

The Guardian: Hancock favours local response to UK’s 100+ a week Covid-19 spikes.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/hancock-favours-local-response-to-uks-100-a-week-covid-19-spikes

48901 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #446 of 1305 🔗

Locals favour spike response to Handcock … steel, 2′ long, very sharp.

48904 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JohnB, -1, #447 of 1305 🔗

The Guardian: Boris Johnson says face masks should be worn in shops in England.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/boris-johnson-says-face-masks-should-be-worn-in-shops-in-england

48906 Tom Blackburn, 3, #448 of 1305 🔗

Where are all the loudmouth music artists eg. Zach de la Rocha, Jello Biafra, Henry Rollins. Not a dickie bird from any of them….

48911 Basics, replying to Basics, 17, #449 of 1305 🔗

3 weeks to flatten the curve they said.
The curve is flat.

49075 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Basics, #450 of 1305 🔗

Yeah but but Masks! Masks damnit, we need more masks!

48912 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 4, #451 of 1305 🔗

Just been doing some work for an NHS Trust in Leicestershire this morning. A member of staff there was asking if the town I lived in was being locked down, I said no. Then she was telling me about some of the cases which have caused the new lockdown there. She gave me an example that one house in Leicester was found to have 45 occupants, and all of them tested positive for COVID-19!

45 people in 1 house! She said that there is loads of houses like these, and that these houses filled with people are the source of where all the infections are coming from.

48923 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #452 of 1305 🔗

If only it was a local council duty to enforce regulations about such things.

48931 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #453 of 1305 🔗

Did you notice at all the Modern Slavery story on Sky News today? I wonder if this is what they’re trying to hint at, but because they are so woke they won’t actually call out what the true cause of the outbreak is.

48936 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, #454 of 1305 🔗

There is a widely held belief that many of the clothing factories in the Asian quarter of the city are sweatshops.

Some people are blaming them for the relatively high numbers of positive tests in Leicester.

It has been suggested that Asian women are forced out to work for wages as low as £3 per hour and have had to work during the lockdown to make ends meet.

48945 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 7, #455 of 1305 🔗

It isn’t an outbreak! It’s a pocket of positive test results.

48968 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #456 of 1305 🔗

Yeah, I only saw the headline, as you know it would be a load of biased tosh.

48982 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #457 of 1305 🔗

Then why write about it here?

49003 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #458 of 1305 🔗

Why not, not like it’s out of place on here

48928 ▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, 2, #459 of 1305 🔗

Seems extremely unlikely that there would be 45 people living in one house in Leicester. There’s a lot of terraces in the area that has seen the most testing.

I would suggest that you extend scepticism to anecdotal comments like these. Not everyone is well informed.

48940 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, #460 of 1305 🔗

Well said John. You couldn’t physically fit 45 people in a Victorian 2 bed terrace!

48949 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #461 of 1305 🔗

Sadly, you can, the people who have to live in these houses do so in shift patterns. So, either 3 lots of 15 people or 2 lots 20.

48955 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, -1, #462 of 1305 🔗

You can if you live in a 30 bedroom mansion. There are few of them in the Asian parts of Leicester.

I suppose Buckingham Palace in London might have room.

49094 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to John P, 1, #463 of 1305 🔗

I’ve lived in Leicester some time ago and a 2 bed terrace house in the street opposite had about 35 people living in it. They weren’t living in the house per se but the lofts of that house and most of the lofts in that side of the street. They got found out as people in the separate houses were hearing footsteps in their lofts.
Possible it’s still going on?

48935 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 2, #464 of 1305 🔗

That sounds like gossip and rumour to me.

48939 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #465 of 1305 🔗

Are you calling my non David Icke source dodgy?

48942 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 2, #466 of 1305 🔗

I’m calling you dodgy for posting such blatant nonsense here.

48956 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, -1, #467 of 1305 🔗

Well i’ll take this to David then, and tomorrow when the story is on his site, and it’s pasted as a link in the comments section here, everyone will be believing it. That’s how it works.

49147 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #468 of 1305 🔗

and i’m calling you naive for not believing what is so obviously true. Ask yourself pal where do you think the hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants are? Working in the NHS perhaps, volunteering for waiter aid, presenting the fucking weather forecast on the BBC? All over the country there is a massive black market economy and just perhaps you might be unaware of it. Well i say perhaps but i mean absolutely totally fucking oblivious.

48927 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #470 of 1305 🔗

I remember reading, probably back in April, that someone had made a connection between the flu jab and an increased susceptibility to Covid.

48969 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Edna, 2, #471 of 1305 🔗

As IanE says, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest whether you ignore it or not. I was merely saying that I had seen a similar article; it was meant as a passing comment, not a statement to be thoroughly investigated as to its veracity.

48978 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edna, 1, #472 of 1305 🔗

I remember it too Edna. It was a few weeks ago .
If John wants veracity, AG kindly supplied two up-to-date links.

49892 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Edna, #473 of 1305 🔗

Liaten to James Delingpole’s podcast with Dolores Cahill. She speaks about tainted vaccines possibly provoking the Northern Italy outbreak before Xmas 2019.

48976 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #474 of 1305 🔗

The proposed mechanism is “viral interference”. Basically if you’re already infected with one cold or flu you’re less likely to catch another one because some aspects of the immune response to the first one are generic and thus also inhibit the second one.

Since Covid is less harmful to children than flu deliberately letting them get flu to protect them against Covid would not be entirely logical.

When it comes to the elderly/vulnerable I suspect their risk of death from flu and Covid are actually around the same. In which case the same reasoning applies– there’s no point not vaccinating them against flu in the hope that they get flu and that protects them from Covid.

48918 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 9, #475 of 1305 🔗

There’s a surge of surging today, folks. Here are the first three entries from part of The Telegraph live feed:

Here are the latest updates from around the world this lunchtime:

Thailand ordered increased security at its land borders today after concerns surged over a possible second wave of coronavirus infections, following the arrests of thousands of illegal migrants in the past month.

Sri Lanka ordered government schools across the nation to shut today, just a week after they re-opened, following a surge in new cases. The country has reported just 2,617 cases with 11 deaths.

About 250,000 people in Manila will go back into lockdown, an official said today, as the number of new coronavirus infections in the Philippines surges.

And there was one more further down where something or other was surging in Latin America.

As you can see, even “concerns” are surging now!

49011 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Tenchy, 1, #476 of 1305 🔗

Somebody must have looked in the thesaurus for an alternative to ‘soaring’.
What’s next: (sky)rocketing?

48922 John P, replying to John P, 9, #477 of 1305 🔗

I saw my family inside the Leicester lockdown zone yesterday.

My brother in law’s sister – who is a cardiologist (specialist nurse) who worked briefly on a covid ward – was sent the article posted in lockdownsceptics from a Leicester doctor by my sister – and has said that she agrees 100% with the article.

There seems to be very little appetite for the extended lockdown among people in Leicester.

Certainly of my immediate family only my mother seems to be reluctant to drop it all totally, though she does still resent the loss of her social life and is still unable to go to church. I think, especially in the older generation, there is a long standing trust in the integrity of the BBC and that is very influential among some. With that said, she was very relaxed yesterday on the whole.

My dad is beginning his radiotherapy for prostate cancer at the end of this month and is rather more scared of that than he is of coronavirus. He’s also annoyed that the hormone treatment has weakened his muscles and he cannot hit a golf ball as he used to.

Elsewhere, a county golf club captain has been throwing his weight around, opening bragging that he has banned all members who live inside the zone from playing on the course.

Many people from Leicester have had their holidays cancelled.

Two couples who are friends of my parents and two families friendly with my sisters. I expect that the actual number of recently cancelled holidays from Leicester may number in the thousands.

People in the city are very fed up with lockdown and I think it is possible that it could end up as the lockdown sceptic capital of England !

49196 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, #478 of 1305 🔗

John, do you think your brother-in-law’s sister would be willing to communicate with Simon Dolan? He is collecting accounts from NHS staff for his appeal and I am sure he would be discreet with the information..

48926 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 16, #479 of 1305 🔗

News from hospitality:

My son works for Hugh Osmond (LS who took it to the BBC which was posted a few days ago) in one of his bars. Finished a long shift yesterday and said that they are getting complaints from customers that staff are not wearing masks (don’t go then). The worst was a table of 4 who got up and walked out as they saw the GM shake hands with a worker who had just finished a shift. They did not pay but their details are stored by T&T so there may be some benefit to it! The GM argued with them and had washed hands straight after the shocking flaunting of the rules but to no avail.

I am sure there are people going out looking for things like this to complain about and post all over their SM to shame honest businesses.

48953 ▶▶ John P, replying to Sarigan, 4, #480 of 1305 🔗

Yes, I agree. Sadly there is going to be a lot of this nonsense going on for some time.

49194 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, 1, #481 of 1305 🔗

People are free to simply *not go to* any pub whose mask policies are not to their liking, as you say!

48930 Basics, 10, #482 of 1305 🔗

UK Column David Scott has asked Scottish Government for their risk assessment of mandating masks. O2 and CO2 etc.

Scottish Government have no yet sent on the document, if it exists at all.

Uk Column say they will put any risk assessment sent on thier website.

48937 CLG, replying to CLG, #483 of 1305 🔗

What happened to the extract written by a Surrey A & E consultant? Is he not a medic?

49043 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to CLG, 2, #484 of 1305 🔗

The piece was transparently from at least 2 different hands. The grammar and spelling gave it away. The first fairly factual and unemotional section smelled ‘right’ and one or two medics here commented that it broadly reflected their observations. The latter part didn’t.

48944 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 25, #485 of 1305 🔗

Facemasks issue not settled

Horrified to read in the BBC just now that despite Michael Goves statement yesterday, Boris is again pushing mandatory masks.
Please can a Tory MP mount a leadership challenge. This man is insane.

48971 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to FrankiiB, 11, #486 of 1305 🔗

Don’t be fooled by the Gove/Johnson show. Masks will be mandatory everywhere in public very soon. This is precisely the kind of incremental approach that was used on the progressive outlawing of smoking in public places, but on steroids.

48980 ▶▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to Richard O, 9, #487 of 1305 🔗

I see. But why on earth are they doing it? It has been suggested that it might coax people out to get the economy going, but I suspect it may just scare people more.
I for one, despite being a Conservative party member, would never forgive them at the ballot box of they do this.

48985 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to FrankiiB, 4, #488 of 1305 🔗

People will either start wearing them in which case they will commend the good sense and wilingness of the British people.

Or people won’t start wearing them in which case they will say they have reluctantly been forced to mandate it.

Either way will give the same result.

48989 ▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #489 of 1305 🔗

This is social engineering 101, and it’s working brilliantly so far. Preparation for the “big one”: mandatory vaccinations.

49023 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Richard O, 3, #490 of 1305 🔗

That won’t happen either, in the UK anyway. The emerging research from Kings suggests the immunity conferred by infection drops really quickly. So there’d be little point in mass vaccination. It would then presumably be like flu, optional vaccination offered to the very elderly and/or frail.
Of course, in the US, the epidemic of over medication caused by introducing the profit motive into healthcare might swing things the other way.

49036 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bruno, 6, #491 of 1305 🔗

I sincerely hope this common sense prevails. Given how far we have already come in 2020, I am not willing to dismiss any possibility, no matter how far-fetched.

49044 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bruno, 2, #492 of 1305 🔗

there’d be little point in mass vaccination” Except if you’re a big pharmaceutical company, or a government wanting to keep the fear, the lies about the deadliness of the virus and the illusion of safety going.

49077 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Julian, 1, #493 of 1305 🔗

Like I say, anything’s possible in the US. The cost benefit analysis for the NHS wouldn’t work though.

49104 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bruno, 6, #494 of 1305 🔗

The cost benefit analysis for lockdown didn’t work either, but it still happened. Would you put it past the government to spend money on a reasonably useless vaccine in order to appease the fearful and perpetuate the lies and the panic? I wouldn’t. Very little they have done and are doing has much to do with science or logic, and as time goes on it’s almost 100% theatre.

49191 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, #495 of 1305 🔗

They had no problem wasting billions on the tracing app..

49274 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Julian, #496 of 1305 🔗

‘The cost benefit analysis didn’t work’? Which cost benefit analysis was that, remind me?

49038 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #497 of 1305 🔗

Or they will make it “guidance” but ramp up the snitch-factor so we police ourselves by shaming each other.

49069 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #498 of 1305 🔗

It’s a done deal. By the end of tge week. With no mention of how long. Asking boris for the risk assessment is a good idea.

48990 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to FrankiiB, 9, #499 of 1305 🔗

They are doing it partly to pander to the fearful, partly to sustain the pandemic narrative, as it gives them control, but I think mainly so that when no second wave comes they can say it was down to the masks and not the fact that we probably already are close to herd immunity. If we just go back to normal now, and the sky doesn’t fall in, their dirty secret will be revealed. They do not want that to happen. When the promised second wave doesn’t arrive anywhere (assuming that it doesn’t, which is my hope and belief) they will be in a trickier position especially regarding countries that either didn’t have a lockdown or are now back to normal, though you’d think more people would have noticed Sweden.

49192 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #500 of 1305 🔗

Not just Sweden… Norway and Denmark are open, no masks, no spikes in infections..

48998 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to FrankiiB, 4, #501 of 1305 🔗

I strongly suspect that they are doing it ‘ because they can ‘.
If you are power crazy, it must be very satisfying watching all the NPCs dodging each other and quaking in their muzzles.

49045 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Alec in France, 5, #502 of 1305 🔗

“Because they can”. Indeed. The object of power is power.

49896 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #503 of 1305 🔗

Yes we can. Now where did I hear that before?

49060 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to FrankiiB, 2, #504 of 1305 🔗

“Interestingly, the demand for a worldwide obligation to wear masks is led by a lobby group called “masks4all” (masks for all), which was founded by a “young leader” of the Davos forum”

And the UK version masks4all.org.uk

Check out the who’s who and their ‘mission’. Grim

49073 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to T. Prince, #505 of 1305 🔗

You may enjoy reading these links:

https://rssdss.design.blog/2020/04/24/the-effectiveness-of-cloth-masks-has-been-misrepresented-by-masks4all/

Follow the “if not now” on the masks4all founders bios and get this:

https://www.masks4all.org.uk/about – they are digital activists running an ad campaign

Dr Jonathon Fluxman mentions XR Doctors – this is Extinction Rebellion – https://twitter.com/doctorsxr?lang=en

Dr Charles Tannock omits to mention he was a long-standing MEP who applied for and got Irish citizenship as he was opposed to Brexit. He has major links to the University College Hospital London – isn’t this part of UCL with Ferguson/Gates links? Oh yesy so it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_College_Hospital#:~:text=It%20is%20part%20of%20the,the%20main%20campus%20of%20UCL .

All involved on the founders page have links to the green agenda one way or another so again, another link in bringing forward the new green deal utopia.

49188 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to FrankiiB, #506 of 1305 🔗

Likely part of the ‘global reset’… or anyway to keep Bill Gates happy till he can ride to the ‘rescue’ with a dodgy vaccine..

49035 ▶▶ TJN, replying to FrankiiB, 6, #507 of 1305 🔗

In a way I hope that clown Johnson does mandate it – it will simply hasten his political demise.

Just been to the local market town – a few more muzzles than usual, but still a small minority (e.g. 5%). Most of the people wearing them are touching them repeatedly, taking them on and off to go into shops, while waiting for coffee, and so on.

Of course, if they have got any respiratory infection the muzzles simple concentrate the germs, which then go onto the hands, which then go onto any door handles and surfaces they touch – in much higher viral loads than if they weren’t wearing a muzzle. Thanks for that. Then again, if they have got a respiratory infection they are ensuring that they themselves get a much higher viral load. But they do get to feel virtuous.

I guess we can be grateful for small mercies in that muzzles may be mandated only now, after the virus has gone, and that that the damage they would have caused in worsening the spread of the disease will largely be avoided.

49052 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to TJN, 6, #508 of 1305 🔗

I don’t see why this will hasten Johnson’s demise. The only thing I can see on the horizon that will do that is in a few years time when the economy is screwed and Labour are leading in the polls running up to the election, and the Tories ditch Johnson to get a new face in.

I don’t consider being forced to wear a mask only now a “small mercy”. I suspect it will be not just in shops but in all indoor or confined spaces, which will include theatres, cinemas, museums and galleries, quite possibly leisure centres and gyms, quite possibly offices, sports venues, and maybe just everywhere except your own home.

49103 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #509 of 1305 🔗

They are already in your own home.

49121 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Julian, 9, #510 of 1305 🔗

I think that sufficient numbers of people in England will refuse to wear muzzles, or at least refuse to go to shops if they possibly can. If his purpose is to get people back to shops, then I’m sure it will fail. National bankruptcy – where we are heading, and fast – will do for Johnson.

I say a small mercy only in relation to that it wasn’t mandated weeks ago, when I think it would have made covid worse.

Yes, I fear muzzle wearing will become mandated in all indoor areas – in which case the footfall will plummet and the participating organisations will go under.

I won’t be wearing a muzzle by the way (except to do a very dusty DIY job I have to do) – they’ll have to starve me out.

49159 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to TJN, 4, #511 of 1305 🔗

It will put many people off, for sure, but possibly fewer than are currently put off by having to go out and be oppressed by people without masks. Just seen someone young and fit walk past my house, on his way home from the shops, in a town that has an estimated 6 people with the virus, wearing a mask.

I wonder if there’s a general boycott of activities that require a mask, whether at some point the government will relent, for financial reasons.

49169 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #512 of 1305 🔗

I hope to god they have that reaction, instead of thinking “people must still be scared. What ridiculous and pointless piece of idiocy shall we impose next to try to reassure them?

49477 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Julian, #513 of 1305 🔗

We shall see! My bet is that we will soon be staring down the barrel of national bankruptcy, and then all further bets are off – except that Johnson is finished.

49495 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, #514 of 1305 🔗

If classical music concerts and the performing arts venues restart but mandate muzzles, I’m not going to bother.

Ditto museums, art galleries and heritage sites – have been already boycotting them over their pre-booking policies.

48947 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 10, #515 of 1305 🔗

Not sure whether anyone here has questioned the economic costs of face nappies? We are due to travel abroad next week for a few days in the sun and are unsure as to whether the exemptions on wearing face nappies on public transport also apply to airports and planes, if so, we shall flash our exemption cards.

The holiday company’s website tells us that fitted masks need to be worn throughout the journey, except when you are eating and drinking. It stipulates that scarves, (sorry Wee Kranky) snoods etc are not suitable but medical masks and closely fitted masks are. You can buy these before you go into the airport. They should be changed regularly, at least every four hours and you should bring enough for the return journey.

Naturally, even though we find the idea totally repellent, we don’t want to be prevented from getting on the plane, so we have had to buy a load of paper masks which have added about £20 to the cost of the journey, which isn’t a problem for us. If the same policy is going to be applied to everyone who uses shops as well as public transport, this is likely to hit the poorest members of our country even harder. People will be tempted to reuse germ ridden masks in order to save money. It will be no better than using a wad of dirty tissues or used handkerchiefs on their faces.

Whilst typing this have just seen Basics comment on risk assessment. I have emailed my MP twice, the holiday company and the department of transport asking them for their risk assessment on wearing masks for long periods of time. Surprisingly, I am still awaiting their replies.

48996 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Margaret, 4, #516 of 1305 🔗

Stand by for “Mask Poverty” and “Mask Banks”.

49000 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Liam, 1, #517 of 1305 🔗

The Mairie (local council) were handing out free muzzles to over-60s recently. Don’t think there were very many takers though.

49001 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Margaret, 5, #518 of 1305 🔗

I’ve checked both Jet2 and easyJet websites. Both say proper masks are mandatory (not scarves or bandanas – not allowed) and if you are claiming an exception you have to have a doctor’s note saying so. Bit difficult for me as I don’t have a GP!

49006 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Margaret, #519 of 1305 🔗

Do you mind disclosing the holiday company? I may have a contact there?

49017 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Sarigan, #520 of 1305 🔗

Jet2holidays.

49042 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Margaret, 3, #521 of 1305 🔗

I do have a senior contact there and will see what I can find out

49066 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, 3, #522 of 1305 🔗

Nice one Offlands – I’m sure there will be others apart from me who are very interested in what you discover.

49086 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Sarigan, #523 of 1305 🔗

Thanks!

48948 Wickwar Bob, replying to Wickwar Bob, 16, #524 of 1305 🔗

The comments beneath Toby’s latest article for the Telegraph are highly depressing ( ( https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/11/have-herd-immunity-boris-will-face-reckoning-pointless-damaging/#comment ) .

Take this nugget of wisdom for example: “I am actually quite shocked the Telegraph allowed this to be published. It is literally endangering the public. It contains a number of false statements. How has this got through the editors???”

Toby is then lambasted for cherry picking stats to justify his argument by people cherry picking stats to support their own!

It’s hilarious and depressing in equal measure.

48954 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Wickwar Bob, 11, #525 of 1305 🔗

Yes, there is clearly a concerted attempt to try to hide the truth. Toby Young’s name attracts all the sicko trolls sadly!
It is however noteworthy that all the Top Comments are in accord with Toby and us here!!

48951 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 9, #526 of 1305 🔗

Apparently there will be a badge denoting that the wearer is exempt from the muzzle. Presumably, there will be an equivalent symbol in due course indicating to others whether on not the wearer has received the Gates-jab. This sounds familiar, Covid-Nazzism at its nastiest

49028 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 4, #527 of 1305 🔗

No need, you can just sport a badge saying ‘immune due to prior asymptomatic exposure’. It’ll be true for most of us.

49034 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Bruno, 2, #528 of 1305 🔗

Good badges to start making and selling

49150 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Chris John, 2, #529 of 1305 🔗

But the Karens wouldn’t know what it meant.

48967 Mr Dee, 5, #530 of 1305 🔗

Gulag Wales has now mandated facegags on public transport. They have to be three-layers thick for some reason. Just in case that pesky virus dodges the first two. They’ll probably mandate them for shops too this week.

Biker – I’m with you now, my Celtic brother, unmasked and unruly.

By the way – if you get a chance, in Boots or wherever else they sell them, check out where these facemasks are manufactured…

Is anyone familiar with Judge Dredd? Check out the Blobs story from way back in Prog 290, 1981. Was this a foretaste of what’s in store for us…

https://twitter.com/JudgeDredd/status/833064401968234496/photo/1

48973 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 2, #531 of 1305 🔗

You seriously don’t believe that people are that short on morals that they would force 45 people to live in a house? You need to wake up and smell the coffee.

48991 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 3, #532 of 1305 🔗
49008 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #533 of 1305 🔗

Yeah, loads of places like that

49160 ▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to JohnB, 3, #534 of 1305 🔗

I take it you never watched the Channel 5 series ‘Nightmare Tenants, Slum Landlords’? Plenty of examples of local housing officers raiding properties where that exact thing was happening. These illegal HMOs were mostly full of illegal immigrants, working in the black economy and sweatshops. 30 – 40 to a house was not unusual.

48975 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #535 of 1305 🔗

Just received this for a client I have booked to Greece for May next year!! Seems we may be in it for the long run:

I am writing regarding your forthcoming holiday booked with ***********.

The management of Ikos ******** request that all guests undergo a PCR (swab) test within a 72 hour period before arriving at the hotel, and receive a negative result. In the event that this cannot be undertaken before travel, a complimentary rapid antibody test will be offered upon arrival. Guests unwilling to take this test will not be permitted to stay at the
hotel. Should any guest display symptoms of Covid-19 during their stay they will be required to undergo a PCR (swab) test on site.
We understand that holiday modifications may be frustrating and we apologise for any disappointment caused.

48987 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Sarigan, #536 of 1305 🔗

I haven’t heard about plans like that for next year – or this year come to that from any of my friends who run accommodation in Greece. But the hotels are playing it overly safe and all owners of accommodation have had to partake in an online health and safety course for Covid protocols. However there are mandatory tests at land, sea and air borders. Greece will be closing their borders to the Balkan states shortly as there have been too many testing positive for Covid.

49125 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sarigan, #537 of 1305 🔗

That’s ridiculous. So if by some miracle you avoid being tested in the UK (and your DNA and data harvested), a foreign government will do it on behalf of the UK…
You can be 100% certain the test details and results will be sent to the UK government for their growing database…

48993 JohnB, 2, #538 of 1305 🔗

Relax John. Time for a walk, a nap, or a bite to eat.

If anyone posts nonsense (I’ve had closer to 145 people in a terrace house party) they must expect to be called on it.

49007 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #539 of 1305 🔗

Boris says we should wear masks in shops and may introduce “tools of enforcement”…

49016 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to Lockdown Truth, 13, #540 of 1305 🔗

Why on Earth would anyone take any advice from BJ seriously?

The man is an imbecile and this is a joke government.

And yet…..they will. So depressing.

I wonder if when the dust finally settles we’ll see a brain drain with folks getting out of the UK.
It looks absolutely fucked for the foreseeable future with these arseholes in charge and not much of an alternative either.

49031 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Invunche, 1, #541 of 1305 🔗

This is just madness. How many “F”s in “Point”??

49286 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #542 of 1305 🔗

Just in case someone is dozing –

There is no “F” in point !

49050 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Invunche, 2, #543 of 1305 🔗

To where exactly? The idiocy is being repeated in many places, mandating of masks popping up all over the world, not just here unfortunately.

49057 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mark II, 5, #544 of 1305 🔗

“Interestingly, the demand for a worldwide obligation to wear masks is led by a lobby group called “masks4all” (masks for all), which was founded by a “young leader” of the Davos forum”

And the UK version masks4all.org.uk

Check out the who’s who and their ‘mission’

49055 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Invunche, 3, #545 of 1305 🔗

“It looks absolutely fucked for the foreseeable future with these arseholes in charge and not much of an alternative either”. Yep, same circus, different clowns

49122 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Invunche, 2, #546 of 1305 🔗

People will leave, and no tourists will ever come to the UK again.. so that’s all the related businesses gone..

49155 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Invunche, 2, #547 of 1305 🔗

Client to solicitor: ‘My bank are an absolute shower, lost my documents, denied they ever got them, froze my account, I’m going to move all my accounts…’
Solicitor to client: ‘ Yes, where to, exactly?’
True story.

49024 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #548 of 1305 🔗

Tools of enforcement? Spit it out in plain English, Boris. Cut the Newspeak crap!

49048 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #549 of 1305 🔗

The Enforcer? Sounds like a tartan headed pleasure toy…
Made by the Tool-in-Chief BOJO (with CE marking)

49289 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #550 of 1305 🔗

Note he says ‘toolS’ of enforcement – plural… does he just mean an SI to mandate mask-wearing, or will it be that PLUS another ‘tool’? Or instead of a law will he use a more subtle ‘tool’ that enforces it without a law???

49020 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 1, #551 of 1305 🔗

Absolutely terrible reporting from the BBC (as usual):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-53386093

Read the headline and then read about the study, which absolutely does not say what the headline says it does. Doesn’t matter because most of the sheep will just read the headline and form their opinions from that.

49025 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Chicot, 4, #552 of 1305 🔗

“The researchers found that levels of virus-fighting antibodies peaked about three weeks after symptoms started and then rapidly fell away. Although 60% of participants produced a “potent” antibody response while they had covid-19, only 17% had the same level of potency at the end of the three-month testing period. Antibody levels were higher and longer-lasting in people who had had more severe cases of covid-19. For some milder cases, it was impossible to detect any antibodies at all at the end of the three months. The research is published in a preprint paper in medRxiv, which means the findings have yet to be subjected to peer review.

What it means: The study raises the prospect that, like other coronaviruses, covid-19 could reinfect people repeatedly. If that’s the case, “herd immunity” may never arrive, either through a one-shot vaccine or through community spread of the virus, as any protective antibodies would wane with time. However, antibodies are not the only way people can fight off covid-19. T cells, which seek and destroy cells infected with SARS-CoV-2, could also provide some protection. In short, we have not yet generated enough data from patients to be able to draw conclusions on immunity with a high degree of certainty. There have been anecdotal reports of people catching covid-19 for a second time, but none have been confirmed.”

Or it goes away and doesn’t come back?

49041 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Lms23, 4, #553 of 1305 🔗

I was chatting to a fellow cricketer on Saturday who works in antibody testing. Their studies suggest the antibodies will potentially remain for up to 8 years given the reduction over time that they have seen compared to studies of other viruses.

49072 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Lms23, 1, #554 of 1305 🔗

Exactly. The study makes it clear that antibodies are not the only potential source of immunity so the lack of antibodies does not necessarily mean that immunity is short-lived. The headline just states “New Study suggests virus immunity is shortlived” which, sadly, is probably the only thing most people will see and remember.

49115 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Chicot, 1, #555 of 1305 🔗

Given that the new study only suggests then those who conducted the study should go back to the drawing board until they come up with proves conclusively and be Peer Reviewed.

49022 Lms23, replying to Lms23, 6, #556 of 1305 🔗

“Won’t be long now before we do have a day on which no Covid deaths occur in England’s hospitals. I predict it will happen some time in the next seven days.”

And what’s the betting that won’t be announced, but mandatory face masks will….?

49049 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lms23, #557 of 1305 🔗

Correct

“Boris Johnson has said people in England “should be wearing” face masks or other coverings inside shops to help prevent the spread of coronavirus.
The prime minister said the government would decide in the next few days if “tools of enforcement” were needed.”

49120 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to T. Prince, 2, #558 of 1305 🔗

It’s the same as it was with the pubs – ‘please don’t go to the pub’ one minute and the next minute, ‘Pubs must close’..

49167 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 3, #559 of 1305 🔗

I think that was my fault. I went to 3 different pubs between “avoid going to the pub” and “pubs must close”. Tried avoiding them, but kept bumping into them anyway.

49027 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 10, #560 of 1305 🔗

According to an online poll in The Telegraph, 65% reject compulsory face masks, 35% in favour.

Vote here:

https://cf-particle-html.eip.telegraph.co.uk/e55a2d75-06c1-40f6-b810-d713399357b7.html

49290 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tenchy, #561 of 1305 🔗

Thanks!

It is now 67% NO Face masks.

49047 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to CarrieAH, #563 of 1305 🔗

Too late…

“Boris Johnson has said people in England “should be wearing” face masks or other coverings inside shops to help prevent the spread of coronavirus.
The prime minister said the government would decide in the next few days if “tools of enforcement” were needed.”

49119 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to T. Prince, 9, #564 of 1305 🔗

Well I’m afraid physical shops will
lose my custom then.

49095 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to CarrieAH, 6, #565 of 1305 🔗

Votes NO are twice as many as for yes. Please make yourself be counted, even if you have to take out a month’s free subscription to the Torygraph. WE have to seize every opportunity.

49246 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #566 of 1305 🔗

It has finished now at 66 No : 34 Yes
Which is encouraging
Maybe all the polls are rubbish

49278 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lockdown Truth, #567 of 1305 🔗

2 out of 3 ain’t bad ! 🙂 🙂

49051 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #568 of 1305 🔗

More from The Telegraph:

Hong Kong to reinstate limits on gatherings over fears of third wave

Shit and corruption – a THIRD WAVE!

Well there was no “second wave” and this so-called third wave constitutes 360 cases in the last three weeks (Hong Kong population, 7.5 million). Regardless, according to The Telegraph:

Hong Kong will reinstate limits on public gatherings from Wednesday, amid growing worries over an escalating third wave of coronavirus infections in the city, Chief Executive Carrie Lam said today.

The government will limit group gatherings to four people – from 50 – a measure last seen during a second wave in March. Some establishments, such as gyms and gaming centres, will have to shut down for a week, while restaurants will only be allowed to give out takeaway after 6:00pm.

The global financial hub recorded 52 new cases of coronavirus today, including 41 that were locally transmitted, health authorities said. Since late January, the Chinese-ruled city has reported 1,522 cases and local media reported an eighth death today.

Second wave in March eh! Look at this display from Wikipedia (select all months Jan – Jul and close ‘Last 15 Days’) and tell me where the so-called second wave was – or even the first!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:COVID-19_pandemic_data/Hong_Kong_medical_cases_chart

49063 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tenchy, 4, #569 of 1305 🔗

Quoting Carrie Lam is sufficient to dismiss the rest of the article.

49575 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tenchy, #570 of 1305 🔗

Just wanted to say that “ Shit and corruption” is my new favourite exclamation. Thank you.

I hope you don’t mind me stealing.

49054 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 13, #571 of 1305 🔗

Someone needs to design and sell a mask that is actually useless. Made of a mesh so wide open that it doesn’t impede breathing, but from the outside looks just about opaque enough to pass as a face nappy.

Inwardly, the wearer would know they hadn’t succumbed to the hysteria or complied with the orders of the fascists.

49061 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Barney McGrew, 17, #572 of 1305 🔗

Pretending to comply would be sufficient for the pushers of this nonsense.

49067 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #573 of 1305 🔗

What if this was a specific brand, with a specific logo (e.g. Lockdown Sceptics)? Wearers would all know each other, and so would a subset of the more compliant public. But the wearer would be signalling that they were not complying, while at the same time being free to avail themselves of their basic rights like going into shops, trains and buses.

What could the fascists do? Bring in specific legislation to outlaw certain brands of mask? Logos? Effectively prevent people from making their own masks? It would, at least, spoil their party a little bit.

49070 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #574 of 1305 🔗

DON’T WEAR ONE. CLAIM EXEMPTION. DON’T YIELD AN INCH.

49074 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to annie, 4, #575 of 1305 🔗

I know what you’re saying, but for me, having to plead exemption is even worse than obeying the letter, but not the spirit, of the ‘guidance’.

49093 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, #576 of 1305 🔗

Can you explain why Barney?

49112 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #577 of 1305 🔗

They are the ones introducing the petty rules, and I would be using their own rules to undermine them while never having to plead or beg.

Pleading exemption is compliance just as much as wearing a mask. It doesn’t break any ‘rules’, but it places the person doing the pleading in subservience to the fascist running the shop, etc. If you wear a useless mask – and especially if they know it but can’t do anything about it – you can claim a tiny victory.

49138 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #578 of 1305 🔗

you could say i’m not wearing a mask and i’m not paying your fine and i won’t cooperate in any way and keep saying it even if you end up in jail. Anyone jailed for not wearing a mask will be a hero and future generations will build statues of them

49117 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #579 of 1305 🔗

I actually use an inhaler as I have (very mild) asthma, but I bitterly resent having to to justify why I shouldn’t obey some arbitrary, stupid rule in the first place.

49240 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #580 of 1305 🔗

You do not need to plead exemption. Flash a printed card from TFL, Network West Midlands, https://hiddendisabilitiesstore.com or anywhere else and they can’t ask for proof. But you can also just say you are exempt. Network West Midlands is my favourite as it clearly states that the card is to be considered proof.

Rub it in their faces by wearing a complimentary dissenting t-shirt from Toby or Carl Vernon (I use the sheep design). And if they do challenge be completely blasé and if necessary ask for their name to make a complaint.

In reality though, the staff I have seen simply don’t care.

49106 ▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to annie, 16, #581 of 1305 🔗

YES! I actually do have a medical exemption, but I intend to keep that my secret and simply tell people I’m neither a slave nor a moron.

Edit: It’s also none of their damn business what my medical history is. Why should I be marked out with a modern equivalent of a gold star? Many people forget that it was the Germans with health problems, mental health problems and learning disabilities who were eliminated first.

49173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to TyLean, 2, #582 of 1305 🔗

I too have a medical exemption, as does my wife, though in neither case is it anything visible. Like you we will not be telling any mask goon why we are exempt other than to say we have a medical exemption. And here’s the thing: in Scotland, at any rate, you do not have to prove your exemption (I got that piece of info from the accessible travel hub, link here https://accessibletravel.scot/face-mask-exemption-not-everyone-can-wear-one/ ), nor are you under any obligation to explain it, to anyone. So fellow sceptics, if you too think you have a medical exemption exercise your right to be mask-free.

49131 ▶▶▶▶ Eve, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #583 of 1305 🔗

Would LOVE a LS mask!

49157 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Eve, #584 of 1305 🔗

Toby could be on to a winner here selling masks with holes in relevant places and T shirts with some witty phrase or obscenity printed on them.

49221 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #585 of 1305 🔗

I can’t help thinking Toby Young must be tired… and would probably be very pleased if someone else acted on something they thought was a good idea.

49214 ▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Barney McGrew, #586 of 1305 🔗

That’s a good idea.

49064 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #587 of 1305 🔗

I’ve been tempted to buy some ‘highwayman’ masks and label them with something like :

“Just as effective – and Less Dangerous”

49071 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #588 of 1305 🔗

Inward is no good. If it looks like compliance, it us compliance.

49092 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 1, #589 of 1305 🔗

Besides, masks are useless anyway!

49141 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to annie, 2, #590 of 1305 🔗

Pleading exemption is full compliance.

49245 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #591 of 1305 🔗

A funeral veil ticks all the boxes.

49056 Eve, replying to Eve, 17, #592 of 1305 🔗

Total nightmare travelling from Euston to North Wales today. Only WH Smith and a Danish homewares shop open at the station. Walked half a mile up the road to get a coffee and sandwich from a family-run cafe.

Many trains cancelled, delayed… an overzealous security guard attempted to physically stop me using the right stairway to heave suitcases over a bridge to a connecting train because the lift was broken. Was anyone walking down them? No, of course not… was I endangering anyone’s health? No, just using common sense to separate myself from the crowd and try to catch a connecting train.

The whole journey was like something out of a dystopian sci-fi novel where the country is slowly falling apart and everyone has fallen in to a depressive, zombie-like state. 28 days later comes to mind.

At least the Welsh mountains make up for the madness of humanity. Good luck to anyone trying to catch a train up to Wales or Scotland from down south. Suggestion: drive instead!

49091 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Eve, 3, #593 of 1305 🔗

Sounds horrendous!

I usually take the train to see my son and DiL who live 300 miles away. It involves three trains, the middle one of which is a four-hour journey on a CrossCountry train, which is horrible for starters. To do this in a mask doesn’t bear thinking about.

Add to that your description of your recent journey and I’m seriously thinking I’ll have to bite the bullet and drive myself. I have ME, so even a drive of say 90 minutes is tiring for me.

These crazy rules are far more dangerous than the virus itself!

49128 ▶▶▶ Eve, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #594 of 1305 🔗

I feel for you. I was travelling with my disabled mother and it was pretty exhausting with all the changes, no bathrooms open at stations, etc. I’d recommend avoiding the train network if at all possible! I mentioned to a rail worker that all these measures are ridiculous and he responded: “No, they’re not ridiculous, it’s because of Covid”. As if I was a three year old. Thank God for this website and the sanity found here. Hope your future trip goes smoothly!

49148 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Eve, #595 of 1305 🔗

I second that, thank goodness for this website there too few havens of common sense.

49180 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Eve, 1, #596 of 1305 🔗

How patronising to say that to you..

49065 Barney McGrew, 9, #597 of 1305 🔗

Masks that look as though they’ve come from a hospital, with NHS logo, personalised for use by specific patients.

“Johnson, B. No spine. Do not resuscitate”.
etc.

49076 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #598 of 1305 🔗

You may enjoy reading these links about masks4all:

https://rssdss.design.blog/2020/04/24/the-effectiveness-of-cloth-masks-has-been-misrepresented-by-masks4all/

Follow the “if not now” on the masks4all founders bios and get this:

https://www.masks4all.org.uk/about – they are digital activists running an ad campaign

Dr Jonathon Fluxman mentions XR Doctors – this is Extinction Rebellion https://twitter.com/doctorsxr?lang=en

Dr Charles Tannock omits to mention he was a long-standing MEP who applied for and got Irish citizenship as he was opposed to Brexit.

He has major links to the University College Hospital London – isn’t this part of UCL with Ferguson/Gates links? Oh yes so it is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_College_Hospital#:~:text=It%20is%20part%20of%20the,the%20main%20campus%20of%20UCL .

All involved on the founders page have links to the green agenda one way or another so again, another link in bringing forward the new green deal utopia.

49082 ▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, #599 of 1305 🔗

University College and Imperial College are different.

49176 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to matt, #600 of 1305 🔗

Thanks for that, getting confused.

I’m sure someone from SAGE spouting off is from UCL and has links to Bill Gates, will have to check.

49193 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #601 of 1305 🔗

As I’ve said before, I’d be amazed if you could find me any half-way credible virologist ore epidemiologist in the world who hadn’t in some ages benefited from money from the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. The man is lousy with money and his hobby is viruses.

49231 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to matt, #602 of 1305 🔗

Agree 100%

49233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, #603 of 1305 🔗

Sure. But we take that fact to mean different things…

49078 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #604 of 1305 🔗

Grad 14.23 today:

Boris has urged the public in England to wear masks in shops as “extra insurance” against the coronavirus, and hinted the government could be poised to make them mandatory.

…. The prime minister said evidence “has been growing” on the effectiveness of wearing masks in public spaces, after coming under pressure to make the wearing of face coverings mandatory in England in line with the more stringent guidance in Scotland.

He told Sky News the government would be looking at the scientific evidence and “saying more in the next few days”.

“The scientific evidence of face coverings, and the importance of stopping aerosol droplets; that’s been growing,” Johnson said. “So I do think that in shops it is very important to wear a face covering.”

He added: “Face coverings are an extra insurance we can all use to stop it coming back, and stop it getting out of control again.”

Asked specifically whether face coverings would be made mandatory in shops in England, as they already are on public transport, he said the government was considering what “tools of enforcement” would be used to increase compliance.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/boris-johnson-says-face-masks-should-be-worn-in-shops-in-england

49080 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Cheezilla, 15, #605 of 1305 🔗

“Face coverings are an extra insurance we can all use to stop it coming back, and stop it getting out of control again.”

Couple that to the latest propaganda about immunity only being temporary and it makes mask-wearing permanent . Any ‘exit strategy’ for masks is being closed off.

49084 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Barney McGrew, 19, #606 of 1305 🔗

There’s no exit strategy to any of this from our lot, there’s no plan laid out at all (for example, when are they gonna let large gatherings start, amateur team spots restart etc). European countries seem to mostly have roadmaps they’ve followed and at least (from here) appear to _want_ to get out of this nonsense. Our lot seem to be relishing it.

Also, what a twat, how can you be using masks to both stop it coming back (ergo, he’s admitting it’s gone) as well as it stop it getting out of control (so it’s not gone…). What a colossal bellend.

49088 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 7, #607 of 1305 🔗

What a colossal bellend.”

…. but that epithet has always been appropriate – with the possible addition of ‘lying’ in front of ‘bell-end’.

Yet there seems to be a willingness to take medical/epidemiological advice from this astronomically dodgy source!

49098 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark II, 3, #608 of 1305 🔗

They don’t want an exit from this. The only thing the government wants that is remotely good for the people is to not completely screw the economy (well, no more than it is already) before the next election. So they will want to get businesses working again, but if they can bully and shame most of the public into wearing masks everywhere all the time then masks are not an obstacle to that objective. Whichever way they go (masks or no masks) they will get criticised by people on either side of this issue who feel strongly, but they prefer to piss off the anti-mask people because masks mean they can cover up the covid lies forever.

49085 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #609 of 1305 🔗

“Extra Insurance”

I guess a rabbit’s foot comes under that heading, too.

49087 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to RickH, 8, #610 of 1305 🔗

Indeed. If I cut off my big toe and haven’t died of Covid within the next month I guess everyone should be cutting off their big toes too.

The lack of sense is maddening, another bad day today, so many at the moment!

49118 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #611 of 1305 🔗

Seen Mason Mills today? He’s re-posted his Tweet from April (the one I’ve quoted here several times, that ‘Mask advice will change’) and is gloating about it… On the positive side, he is getting a lot of negative comments – hardly anyone positive to the idea. Unfortunately he has a tendency to block people who are negative to his tweets, so if you’re interested I would look now, before he gets round to deleting…
https://twitter.com/MrMasonMills/status/1282657914684137473?cxt=HHwWgoC70fuk9cwjAAAA

49164 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 1, #612 of 1305 🔗

The comments are pretty consistent. Good stuff.

I really hope the bastards don’t go through with it.

49178 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 3, #613 of 1305 🔗

Agree – but what have they got to stop them? No opposition in Parliament and an 80 seat majority…
I cannot say often enough how disappointed I am by the likes of Steve Baker, who made that excellent speech the day the coronavirus act went through…

49187 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 3, #614 of 1305 🔗

Well, we’re back to intent.

If they’re looking at face masks as a way to encourage consumers to feel safe enough to go back to the shops, then maybe a flurry of comments along the lines of “screw you, Amazon for me” will make them think twice.

If they’re just trying to subjugate the British public, for whatever motive, then there’s nothing to stop them.

Either way, though, appalled at the quality of our MPs, yes.

49129 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #615 of 1305 🔗

Last year’s #ExtinctionRebellion has been supplanted by this year’s Extinction Of Freedom.

49083 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #616 of 1305 🔗

Masks will save you, there’s some logic behind it in 1984 during the AIDs pandemic the TV told us wear a condom to keep yourself safe from catching Aids and to prevent infecting others I’ve worn a condom every day and night since 1984 and I never got it and neither did I pass it on to anyone I came in contact with in supermarkets restaurants and pubs so it obviously works so now I will wear a condom and a mask …supersafe mankind can thank me later

49113 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #617 of 1305 🔗

Epic!

49139 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #618 of 1305 🔗

Swap round perhaps, condom on head, mask on …

49089 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #619 of 1305 🔗

Basically unless it’s been validated, verified, characterised and calibrated safe to use it’s unethical to apply “scientific evidence” = modelling and cursory experiments.

If this is the case then scientific evidence is mounting that we don’t need to verify that aircraft and cars are fit for purpose. We’ll just all sit in a room and model it.

49123 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #620 of 1305 🔗

Feeding The Guardian now. Shameful.

49142 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #621 of 1305 🔗

Boris go fxxk your scientific evidence!

49156 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #622 of 1305 🔗

I continue to be surprised by the Welsh Government standing firm(ish) on the face mask issue. Whilst they have made them mandatory on public transport and insisting they have to be three layers (who is going to get close enough to check?!!), they continue to resist the clamour to make them mandatory in shops. This is what Mark Drakeford said today (from BBC online):

Mr Drakeford said: “For the sake of simplicity and consistency, as well as being part of our plan to help reduce the risk of transmission while on public transport where it is not always possible to maintain a two metre physical distance, it will become mandatory for people to wear a three-layer face covering while travelling – this includes taxis.”
Having a different rule for wearing masks on public transport in Wales and England was “not sustainable in the long term”, Mr Drakeford said.
Asked why coverings were not mandatory in other public spaces, Mr Drakeford said: “The advice of the Welsh Government is that if places are crowded then face coverings are advisory. Where places are not crowded it is a matter for the individual citizen to make that decision.”
Coronavirus is now “at its lowest ebb” since the pandemic began, he added, saying the Welsh Government’s response had to be “proportionate”.
While Mr Drakeford said masks would not be mandatory for shoppers, businesses may ask people to wear them.

But, he added: “At this point in time, when the prevalence of coronavirus is low, we are not mandating the use of face coverings in other public places, but many people may choose to wear them – and there is nothing to stop that happening in Wales.
“Our advice may change if cases of coronavirus begin to increase.”

49079 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #623 of 1305 🔗

This is becoming my favourite

49190 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, #624 of 1305 🔗

Ha Ha

49081 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #625 of 1305 🔗

Found this while clearing up my hard drive

49140 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #626 of 1305 🔗

Amen to that!! I wrote to my MP today and told her they can all go hang – BJ I’m done with them!

49096 Ian, replying to Ian, 27, #627 of 1305 🔗

Another psychological tightening of the screw. When is this going to end? We have had this seemingly confused response before over lockdown easing, remember? Ministers teasing earlier restrictions being lifted, people feeling better then ‘bang shut’ another x weeks. So it was with Gove yesterday. You are led to believe something won’t happen then today guess wheat? It will. It is making me ill. I struggle to look at my little fella now, I wonder just what world he will inherit. The govt know it’s over. I suspect they also know that there will not be a second wave. So why this game? Why persist? Where is the opposition? I am not a conspiracist at all, but it is all getting very very worrying.

49099 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Ian, 19, #628 of 1305 🔗

I suspect they also know that there will not be a second wave” I think they are worried there won’t be a second wave, so are trying to cover up the obvious lies by mandating masks. They will need to explain Sweden, though most people in this country are so thick or apathetic they don’t really know what’s happening there.

49146 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Julian, 4, #629 of 1305 🔗

Exactly this Julian. If people all wear masks then when there is no second wave the government can proclaim it’s because of the mask wearing.

49262 ▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to The Spingler, #630 of 1305 🔗

Just like they regularly claim to have saved 450k lives (500k less those supposedly killed by Covid).

49134 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Ian, 1, #631 of 1305 🔗

You hit the nail on the head.

I know exactly what you mean – I have that same sense of doom for my boys.

49244 ▶▶ John P, replying to Ian, 1, #632 of 1305 🔗

“The govt know it’s over. I suspect they also know that there will not be a second wave.”

No. They don’t.

You, like too many people out there give these people far too much credit.

You don’t have to be intelligent to be an MP and certainly you don’t have to be intelligent to be Prime Minister. All you have to do is wear the right badge and stand for election.

49285 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, #633 of 1305 🔗

Indeed. I read somewhere what Priti Patel got in the way of grades during her education and I achieved far higher!

49105 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 6, #634 of 1305 🔗

Just in case anyone is interested, some of us last week questioned why no serious outbreak in prisons.

I’ve managed a quick Google and found:

Written PQ 42884- David Lammy. As of 12th May.

Prisoners confirmed cases 404 – deaths 21.
Staff confirmed cases n/k – 7 deaths.

Why test prisoners and not staff??

49637 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #635 of 1305 🔗

Aerosol would seem to be something that would have shown in prisons.

49107 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #636 of 1305 🔗

Today’s UKColumn is an excellent programme featuring news from Scotland and much news/discussion about covid in various parts of the UK. Really worth checking out if you’ve never listened before.
50 odd mins today.

https://youtu.be/sr30K_x-RsQ

49238 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, -2, #637 of 1305 🔗

The UK Column does well on Covid issues, picking up on things that can pass under the radar.

You have to be wary, tho’ of other particular obsessions that are less rational getting tagged onto the back of that coverage.

49111 PaulK, replying to PaulK, 19, #638 of 1305 🔗

I’ve sent an email to my children’s headmistress to ask if they are able to interpret the Government guidelines, pointing out that only five children have died with or of the “virus” out of approximately 20 million under 18s in the UK, along with three links which substantiate the low risks.

The first line of her reply reads: As the head of a maintained school I am not able to interpret the guidance, but must follow it.

Our poor children do not deserve this. No one does. Totally abhorrent.

49114 ▶▶ RickH, replying to PaulK, 8, #639 of 1305 🔗

Be fair. Who would own up to active complicity in child abuse?

Now … that phrase …. something like …”I was only following orders” ….

49127 ▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to RickH, 3, #640 of 1305 🔗

I’m not at all surprised by her response. If she did interpret the guidance she would face a huge backlash from the vast majority of teachers, parents, the school board and the LEA who have been brain washed.

I thought as it’s a CofE school there might be some leverage, bearing in mind the damage the lockdown has inflicted to the Christian community. I wonder whether independent schools will adapt completely to the guidelines.

It would take huge courage to swim against the tide. I haven’t spoken to her to ask her personal take on the situation. As you say Rick H, she’s following orders.

49133 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to PaulK, 15, #641 of 1305 🔗

CofE couldn’t shut churches fast enough, just at the moment when frightened and lonely people were most in need of the solace a few minutes of peace in a familiar and beautiful building.

49126 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to PaulK, 5, #642 of 1305 🔗

And how – pray tell – does one follow something they are unable to interpret?

49132 ▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to TyLean, #643 of 1305 🔗

Maybe it’s my fault for using the word “interpret”. What I meant was if she could read the guidelines and decide whether to apply them or not. Her answer is no, she has to follow them without question.

49116 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 8, #644 of 1305 🔗

Since the madness is continuing, how do we force a general election and get rid of these imbeciles?

Apparently it can’t be done by petition and it can only be called by parliment. What measures are needed to get this done?

I’m saying this now because it could be done with civility. In a 3 to 6 months that civility may well be completely gone and politicians will be begging the police for protection, if the projected economic calamity hits. I bet it’ll also be a cold and snowy winter too.

49136 ▶▶ RickH, replying to mhcp, 10, #645 of 1305 🔗

Hang on. Since a general election less than a year ago gifted power to this bunch of spivs and chancers – what hope that the GBP (Great – sorry – Gullible British Public would do anything different in a re-run?

Remember – there is no effective opposition at present on the matters that concern us here. The professional political/media class has largely eliminated such a concept of independence in favour of Group Think.

Meanwhile, we have a President of the Royal Society – one Venki Ramakrishnan – spouting SunMailGrauniad Scary Fairy gobbeldy-gook that equates the wearing of face nappies to the use of seat belts or the prohibition of driving under the influence.

If *that* is the illogical and scientifically illiterate standard of garbage coming out of that particular noble source, I’m afraid Joe Public’s chances of getting hold of decent information is close to zero.

Goebbels would have wet himself at the prospect of such media control.

49200 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to mhcp, #646 of 1305 🔗

Who would you vote in instead!? The opposition has only deviated from the government’s agenda on Covid by insisting they would of locked down sooner. There is no better people to vote for sadly, they’re all alike, in this and everything else. W

49216 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cruella, #647 of 1305 🔗

You could stand.

Simon Dolan has offered to pay the deposit of any lockdown sceptic who stands at the next general election. (Whenever that may happen!)

49213 ▶▶ John P, replying to mhcp, 3, #648 of 1305 🔗

how do we force a general election and get rid of these imbeciles?

I don’t think we can. Elections were suspended under the Coronavirus Act.

49130 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #649 of 1305 🔗

NHS logo.

“….. TB clinic. For use of patients only”.
(fill in name of local town)

Give them something to really worry about.

49149 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #650 of 1305 🔗

In fact (replying to my own comment), there’s more to that than meets the eye. If the average person in the shop truly believes that masks ‘work’ then they will not be nervous at all (both you and they will be wearing these wondrous devices). But if they, in fact, are only wearing a mask to signal compliance and virtue, they will be uncomfortable. My guess is that most mask wearers are in that category.

49211 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Barney McGrew, #651 of 1305 🔗

No, I disagree. Most mask wearers are frightened. I confronted two of them.

Those who are unafraid would probably also realise that they were not necessary.

It’s only people like Lewis Hamilton that put them on to appear virtuous.

49243 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to John P, 1, #652 of 1305 🔗

But surely the frightened ones are also the ones gullible enough to believe that masks work – the former category.

49313 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Barney McGrew, #653 of 1305 🔗

Okay Barney, we’re splitting hairs a bit with this one.

I just think that those who are relaxed wouldn’t want to bother with them.

BTW, best to Hugh and Pugh …

49135 Bella Donna, 7, #654 of 1305 🔗

At least something has gone right today, my hair looks great!

My hairdresser told me they weren’t allowed to go to their childrens sports day today! This madness must end!

49137 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 32, #655 of 1305 🔗

Phil Baynes

2 hours ago

Reply to Nick Rose

It’s astonishing (or maybe not) that there isn’t a single dissenting voice amongst the 650 MPs.

This is probably the most pertinent comment made today. It really is truly shocking that not one MP has the fortitude to stand up and call this out for what it is. In fact, it is more than shocking, it is frightening. I cannot believe that we are in such a minority that there is no representation of any kind within the commons to provide a counterbalance to any of this.

Is it any wonder that conspiracy theories take hold? Here’s me thinking months ago – no, it’ll never last, not in GB. There’s no way our sceptical population will cede to government propaganda.

How wrong was I?

49253 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to arfurmo, 1, #657 of 1305 🔗

Hooray. Chope is my MP.

49256 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to arfurmo, #658 of 1305 🔗

The best rated comment of up to now 3444 is:

“They are clearly making it up as they go along”

Perhaps there is hope yet !

49308 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 1, #659 of 1305 🔗

Sadly not: Matt Hancock is now planning mass vaccination with the flu jab: https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1282719360457543680
This (see link) could however put a bit of a spanner in the works: https://www.bmj.com/content/368/bmj.m810/rr-0

49153 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Howie59, 1, #661 of 1305 🔗

Agreed, I wrote to my MP a few weeks ago. He has a long track record of independent thinking on issues such as the 2nd Iraq war and the EU, before scepticism became mainstream. I was hoping that he would give some encouragement to me in hoping that behind the scenes there were at least a few healthily sceptical MP’s who were unhappy with the Government’s response. I wasnt encouraged, but still hope that maybe they are biding their time.

49145 Bugle, 5, #662 of 1305 🔗

Lidl today, Essex town, moderately busy, only one mask-wearer.

49151 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #663 of 1305 🔗

I think I’ve just won a skirmish with a local council.

They have removed the pre-opening checklist for businesses from their website due to doubts on it’s legality and reading between the lines on their e-mail each and every business can operate to any conditions they like a long a steely ahem a risk assessment to prove they they have thought about thinks and how to operate:

“Further to your email dated 2 July 2020, I am now able to respond on behalf of the Leader of the Council to the points raised in your email dated 19 June 2020.

Thank you for drawing to my attention your concerns regarding the content of the checklist provided on the website for the County Council’s Enterprise Centre. The checklist was intended to be helpful guidance for the Enterprise Centre businesses planning to reopen during the current pandemic, however, I can see how some areas of the checklist may need further clarification and will be updated. The checklist has now been taken off the County’s website. The Business Enterprise Tenant’s will therefore need to refer to guidance direct from the government website.

In relation to your query raised regarding risk assessments, Staffordshire County Council are a landlord for a number of properties, including the Enterprise Centres, which are start-up businesses. The County Council manages the Centres and supports the tenants. However, the responsibility for any risks assessments for their particular business and employees lies directly with the individual tenants. As you will appreciate the businesses on the Enterprise Centres owned by the County Council are diverse and will need to be managed day to day by the Tenants who run those businesses, although the County Council will seek to assist wherever possible.

You also queried costs and installation of street signage and pavement markings to ensure safer visits to High Streets etc. I can advise you that the social distancing posters and footway markings are being provided by the District and Borough Councils using their local share of the Reopening High Streets Safely Fund (£50m European Regional Development Fund (ERDF)). I therefore have no information as the costs surrounding this and can only suggest that you contact your District or Borough Council if you wish to have this information.”

I have answered him nice and politely:

“Thank you very much for taking the time to address some of my concerns and look further into the others.

It is heartening to know that someone in authority, once appraised that there are legality issues with following and attempting to enforce guidance that has no standing in law and following centralised diktat from government as if it has legal standing when it does not, has taken steps to look into the matters in depth.

Since March we seem to have descended into rule by ministerial fiat, press announcements and Statutory Instruments based on “expert” advice which does not stand up to scrutiny with zero Parliamentary oversight and supine MPs which is not how the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (to give it the full and correct name) is ruled.

It is not quite how “the mother of all parliaments” likes to portray itself as real life leaves the image wanting.

Once again, thank you for your e-mail, it was most enlightening.”

49154 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Awkward Git, #664 of 1305 🔗

Legend!

49170 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #665 of 1305 🔗

Interesting that the money for signage etc comes from ‘ £50m European Regional Development Fund (ERDF)’ – EU money???

49181 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, #666 of 1305 🔗

Might as well take it while we can

49250 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Carrie, 1, #667 of 1305 🔗

UK money repurposed as it always was. We don’t receive any net monies from the EU.

49227 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #668 of 1305 🔗

Passed on the info to the British Beer and Pub Association and the Federation of Small Business but don’t expect them to do much.

49258 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #669 of 1305 🔗

Well done AG. A real world victory !

49441 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Awkward Git, #670 of 1305 🔗

AG, would it be possible to get Toby to put your points as a template for others on one of the side bars?
Are you sharing with the laworfiction people?

49501 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bruno, #671 of 1305 🔗

Simon Dolan has all the relevant correspondence.

Sent it off to the BBPA and FSB.

Will look at the laworfiction tomorrow.

Might try again with the local newspaper and if I feel up it (after few beers to get the creative juices flowing) one last go at my useless MP.

49528 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #672 of 1305 🔗

Thanks for doing this, AG 🙂

49629 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #673 of 1305 🔗

Properly fabulous work. I cannot guage the sheer bloody awfulness of the council you are up against – but by the measure of my experience with LAs here – you have moved mountains to get that result.

49158 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 6, #674 of 1305 🔗

Hot of the press
We will not be silenced – Your voice matters

Keep Britain Free is a platform that uses our collective voice to protect the rights of the individual. Our right to think and speak freely. We want to tell your story!

We would love to share stories that demonstrate the importance of our campaign. Whether it be stories of how lockdown has caused you great adversity; perhaps you are losing a business, a care home owner left with the burden the government has thrust upon you, a parent of children who have lost their education, or a patient waiting to access basic healthcare? You may have a story of triumph; where you have taken your freedom into your own hands, or are doing something inspirational to take back what the government has taken away?

If you have a moving story that demonstrates the importance of KBF, we want to hear from you.

What started out as a personal journey for me, wanting to right the injustices damaging our society, quickly became a movement. A cause joined by likeminded souls brave enough to think and act for themselves. I want to bring your voices to our platform and our community.

We would love to share some of these in our videos and our blog posts. If you are happy to share your experiences, please either video, audio record, or write your testimony and send to simon@keepbritainfree.com where my dedicated team and I can watch, listen and read.

We obviously cannot guarantee to publish everything as so many of you are kindly interacting with us, but we will try to watch, respond and share as many as we can.

Thank you for your continued support,
Simon

https://www.keepbritainfree.com/post/we-will-not-be-silenced-your-voice-matters

49165 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Victoria, #675 of 1305 🔗

‘Keep’ Britain Free. Think that train left the station months ago. We are not free and our voice certainly doesn’t matter

Our MP’s collectively pooed their pants and won’t come out of hiding. Even David Davies, SBS my arse, wouldn’t have got in the pay core in my day

49171 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cecil B, 7, #676 of 1305 🔗

Why the negativity? WHY give up?

Here is someone trying too make a difference!

49183 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Victoria, #677 of 1305 🔗

I wish them well, but our freedom has gone and it isn’t coming back any time soon

49195 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cecil B, 2, #678 of 1305 🔗

Well you’re not going to be of much use to anyone here, are you d barton, if this is your attitude?

49202 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to John P, #679 of 1305 🔗

Good luck, wish you well

49225 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cecil B, #680 of 1305 🔗

You have free will.

49229 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cecil B, 5, #681 of 1305 🔗

One battle at a time, you lose some, you win some.

Looks like I won against the council today (see below a little bit) so perseverance has paid off even if it took a while.

49333 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Cecil B, #682 of 1305 🔗

He’s my MP & normally responsive but complete silence from the 2 critical emails I’ve sent him recently

49161 Paul B, replying to Paul B, 2, #683 of 1305 🔗

Sorry, more mask related tomfoolery!

If work require me to visit an office which has decided to implement temperature checks and masks what are my options and how should I handle it?

It’s an office so a mask isn’t required by law for safety (asbestos etc) or under the restrictions now applying public transport. I was diagnosed with asthma in March and as of yet it isn’t being treated properly, on top of that I wake up regulatory with a temperature and stomach cramps due to most likely stomach issues.

I’m also staunchly against masks on the basis that there is likely a tiny (if any) benefit and a laundry list of disadvantages/dangers to wearing one, nor am I interested in going any further down the authoritarian path our masters have us marching down now.

Don’t want to be difficult towards my company and coworkers who are excellent, at least one of whom will likely have to visit in my stead! I have and am more than willing to go to any location where a mask is not required, and have been doing so throughout this period since March.

Thoughts on handling appreciated.

49185 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Paul B, 2, #684 of 1305 🔗

Simply say you are exempt from wearing a mask for health reasons under the government guidelines. You don’t need to provide any more info than that.

49251 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to The Spingler, #685 of 1305 🔗

Good answer. A quiet word with your boss beforehand might also help.

49163 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 9, #686 of 1305 🔗

Don’t think anyone has posted about this yet -apologies if already done . 11 more people who tested positive for Covid have died in hospitals in England .Patients 72-95 and all had underlying health conditions. My god no wonder we need face muzzles.

49166 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to arfurmo, 4, #687 of 1305 🔗

Muzzles? Surely time to lockdown the country completely!

49189 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to arfurmo, 1, #688 of 1305 🔗

The sky is falling.

49168 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 18, #689 of 1305 🔗

Visiting friends near Winchester. Popped into the local Big Tesco. Lady on the checkout was wearing a mask. The mask looked pretty filthy to me but, worse, I saw her fiddle with it five times in about three minutes. So if she had Covid she would be transferring the virus from her mask to the items she was handling. But our PM tells us she is acting responsibly because she’s wearing a mask! What’s wrong with Johnson? He had a pretty horrible near-death experience. Maybe he’s got PTSD. I don’t think he’s fit to govern us. His judgment is erratic, skewed.

49220 ▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 10, #690 of 1305 🔗

The PM panicked BEFORE he got ill. They have only two options now – admit they were wrong and face the music, or double down. They have chosen the latter. Why wouldn’t they? No-one is questioning them, and the media and other organisations in the UK and globally are actively collaborating in the spin, for their own sinister ends.

49242 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Julian, 6, #691 of 1305 🔗

Indeed but that was a rational political panic. His recent conversion to mask mania seems deeply irrational. It is not based on sound science or a good understanding of people’s behaviour. It will further damage the economy and undermine his political base.

49270 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, 4, #692 of 1305 🔗

The government have clearly not read all the anti-mask comments on the DT – which in theory is the paper a lot of their voters read..

49343 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 3, #693 of 1305 🔗

I’ve not seen any sign that the PM or anyone else in government gives two hoots for sound science.

As for understanding behaviour, the behaviour manipulators have done pretty well so far in creating compliance and fuelling the collective hysteria. For sure there will be people who find masks annoying, and some like us who feel they are just wrong, just as people found lockdown annoying or plain wrong, but it’s quite plausible they will build consensus for mask wearing, using their propaganda collaborators. They don’t care about what we think.

49499 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Julian, 1, #694 of 1305 🔗

They don’t have only those two options: there is a third that frankly I’m surprised they haven’t already taken. Blame their dodgy medical/scientific advisors for the terrible advice leading to all the appalling decisions, sack them, hire sane ones to make the right decisions to reverse everything back to normal, then take the credit at the end. As I’m nigh on guileless, if I can think of it, it must be pretty obvious!

49177 Cecil B, 6, #695 of 1305 🔗

Oh keep up folks. Three days now of yes/no facemasks. Cynical spinning and news management to distract from the mass killings in care homes

49182 John P, #696 of 1305 🔗

That is a very impressive piece of work that you recently posted on twitter, Toby. Of course, the limitations of twitter mean that it is quite disjointed.

I have put it together myself, but I think it’s too long to post here.

Perhaps you might consider including it as part of the next Lockdown Sceptics update?

49186 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 16, #697 of 1305 🔗

Tried hitting a few bars on Saturday night. Whole thing was a farce. Table service only. You were forbidden to move from your seat unless you needed the toilet. Thing was that these restrictions meant they were only operating at a fraction of normal capacity. This lead to huge queues outside (at least a 30 minutes wait). While waiting in the queues, social distancing was completely non-existent, thus making all these measures a complete waste of time.

Spoke to a doorman while waiting and he said that things would be back to normal in 2 weeks. He seemed pretty definite on this which leads me to believe that either the government have tipped them the nod that they are relaxing restrictions then, or that bars are going to start “doing a Marstons” and just drop the restrictions themselves and let customers decide to enter at their own risk.

49283 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Chicot, 6, #698 of 1305 🔗

Airlines, cruise companies, museums, theatres, cinemas, galleries, libraries, pubs, clubs – no one ever needs to avail themselves of these services. They are severely hurting their ability to bounce back from this by pandering to such nonsense. In my opinion all of these non-essential entertainment, cultural and luxury services should state that social distancing and other measures will not under any circumstances be entertained on their premises and anyone who doesn’t feel safe can feel free to not make use of them. It’s the pandering that is the problem and someone needs to take a stand, but it really needs to be done as a group en masse as it’s too easy for authorities to crack down on individuals.

49300 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 4, #699 of 1305 🔗

We can have 30 people in our own homes – we will just have to move the activities there as far as possible.. In our homes we can do what we like 😉

49306 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Carrie, 1, #700 of 1305 🔗

Not if they backpedal and slap restrictions on people again. That’s what’s happened in Melbourne in Australia, like in Leicester, simply because of so many tests leading to an increase in the raw figures of ‘cases’. In Melbourne at least the proportion of ‘positives’ to overall tests has not changed which clearly shows it’s an artefact of testing, not an actual increase, just like in Sweden.

49589 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #701 of 1305 🔗

Don’t get tested. Protect your community. Sod Hancock*

*the original “screw Hancock” came under criticism for the implication that people should be performing sexual acts with Matt Hancock. While that was never the intention, I thought I would change it a little. Yes, I’m aware that “sod” also refers to a sexual act, but I’m hoping it’s sufficiently less obvious that I can get away with it.

49198 Awkward Git, 6, #702 of 1305 🔗

From an American friend who lives in Bangkok with his Thai wife. he’s been there 40 years or more and his brother is a surgeon who does musculoskeletal work in Florida:

my wife and her friends know of no one who was sick or who has died. I suspect that is why people around the world are not wearing masks. One nephew is an auto assembly manager and says no one there has been infected. Much could be due to heat and humidity but AC buildings may be another matter and politics as well. There are many physicians in US that say quinine derivative medicines do work, but media suppresses these stories only because Trump said they are effective. Had he said the opposite, songs of praise would be coming from these hypocrites. I have been taking quinine sulfate for over thirty years now for malaria relapses, and it is stronger than hydroxychloroquine and its side effects. I would like to see how many old people have died that are taking it for arthritis and lupus. It would make an excellent study, as so many elders are on this medication!

49203 mjr, 4, #703 of 1305 🔗
49218 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 6, #704 of 1305 🔗

FOLKS IN SCOTLAND

I’ve ordered my “mask exempt on medical grounds” badge and lanyard from Amazon.

I’d urge folk in Scotland to order quickly. Once masks become compulsory in shops in England, I predict a huge rush on these and stocks will quickly run out. Remember hand sanitisers in March?

49228 ▶▶ John P, replying to Gillian, #705 of 1305 🔗

“if” not “once”

49230 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Gillian, 3, #706 of 1305 🔗

Here’s a link to the one I have ordered. I think this looks sort of “official” and hopefully conveys the impression that it has been issued by a medical authority of some sort.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Face-Covering-Travel-Mask-Exemption-ID-Card-Lanyard-or-Clip-Badge-Disabilities/303600761159?hash=item46b003f947:g:0-AAAOSwiRBe7MtS

49237 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Gillian, 6, #707 of 1305 🔗

I can understand your doing this and thanks for the link.

However, I am not willing to pretend to be ill or disabled to get out of wearing these things.

I won’t wear one. I may boycott shops altogether if they do this in England.

49257 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to John P, 10, #708 of 1305 🔗

Point taken and you are right to take a principled stand.

I intend only using mine in supermarkets and other food shops, when buying essential food and household necessities.

For discretionary spending, I will buy online if possible. I won’t be visiting any shopping malls or other non-essential shops until mandatory mask-wearing is lifted,

49263 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Gillian, 3, #709 of 1305 🔗

Good for you. It must be horrible.

49272 ▶▶▶▶▶ Evelyn, replying to Gillian, 2, #710 of 1305 🔗

Thanks Gillian, I’ve just ordered one. Like you I’ll only use it in supermarkets, other shopping I’ll do online for now.

49388 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gillian, #711 of 1305 🔗

It’s either that or Wiltshire Farm Foods.

49592 ▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to John P, 1, #712 of 1305 🔗

As was posted here recently (apologies if I misquote slightly) “If the government is going to pretend that facemasks are needed in shops, I’ll pretend I’m exempt from wearing one. Everyone happy”

49321 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Gillian, #713 of 1305 🔗

Thanks Gillian. I won’t, under any circumstances, wear a mask so I’ve just ordered this badge.

49232 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Gillian, 5, #714 of 1305 🔗

I think I might take up burglary as a hobby and go ‘shopping’ in the middle of the night

49254 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Cecil B, 2, #715 of 1305 🔗

But then you’d have to wear a mask.
And carry a bag marked swag.
And wear a striped jersey.
Sorry folks, it’s been a bad day…..

49234 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 16, #716 of 1305 🔗

Can someone explain the situation in Scotland. Maybe I’m missing something obvious.

In Scotland today there were 6 new cases. Over the last few weeks the number of new cases has been in single or double figures – recently it’s been very low. However, there are – apparently – 550 patients in hospital with “confirmed or suspected Covid-19”. How can this be? We know from Boris that even if you’re really ill with bat flu you’re only in hospital a matter of days. To accumulate 550 people in hospital, given the very low new case rate, would mean that people are staying in hospital for weeks on end.

Here’s the only explanation I can come up with. The vast majority of the 550 are in hospital with something else – some long term illness requiring an extended stay in hospital. While there, they have tested positive for bat flu, and maybe even picked it up in hospital. They may be asymptomatic, but they’re going down as bat flu cases. If this is so, it is bloody misleading, and nothing short of fake news.

Anyone else care to hazard a guess as to what’s going on?

49247 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tenchy, 6, #717 of 1305 🔗

That sounds about right to me. It’s not even necessarily the same 550 people. I’m quite sure absolutely everyone in hospital for any reason is tested and tested and tested again and once they’re positive, they go down as a Covid case (did you know that a broken leg is a symptom of Covid?) and then probably kept in for 2 weeks whether they need to be or not.

But – people tested in hospital still should be appearing in the testing statistics and to your point, it takes a long time to get to 500 when you’re running at ~10 cases a day.

49372 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, 1, #718 of 1305 🔗

Perhaps they’re counting every positive test as a case, even tests carried out on the same person. We know that’s been happening in the UK as a whole. So one person gets tested 20 times during a hospital stay and is marked down as 20 individual positive “cases”?

49374 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, #719 of 1305 🔗

Quite possibly. My mum has a heart condition and ends up in A&E regularly – she gets tested every time..even if it is only a day or so since her last visit there.

49271 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Tenchy, 3, #720 of 1305 🔗

Every patient in hospital has been tested for coronavirus since March . Most of the people in hospital are on a revolving door admission basis ie frequent flyers . They are still labelled with the rona even though they tested positive in March. it is the mark of Cain.

49282 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #721 of 1305 🔗

God, the statistics don’t tell anything like the full story. It surely must be a deliberate ploy to mislead.

49327 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Tenchy, 1, #722 of 1305 🔗

I believe your assessment is correct.

49357 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tenchy, 1, #723 of 1305 🔗

Probably because our glorious leader assumes we are stupid enough to accept her drivel (that her advisors spoon feed her) she trots out every day when in fact us inquisitive people with common sense question the numbers and come to the conclusion that it’s all bollocks

49369 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 2, #724 of 1305 🔗

Because it’s nosocomial.

49241 Suitejb, replying to Suitejb, 12, #725 of 1305 🔗

Supposedly the idea of mandatory mask wearing in shops is to encourage people back into them, although like everything else this message is becoming blurred. However at the risk of stating the obvious, Boris and his mates haven’t the first idea of how the public behave on the high street.
Shops spend thousand on planning and design to entice customers. From striking window displays to decor, layout, music, it’s all designed not only to bring in customers but to keep them in there browsing in the hope that they will spend something. Or even return later to buy. Add a compulsory mask and it’s all for nothing.
Talking to a friend today who is very vulnerable and strongly supports the hype I was amazed when she said people would only need to wear a mask inside a shop and could take it off as soon as they got outside. Then put it on again in the next shop!

49255 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Suitejb, 12, #726 of 1305 🔗

The reality is that most mask wearers are also mask fiddlers and so much more likely to be spreading the virus around. The sight of nearly everyone in masks in shops will return us to the period of maximum hysteria. The psychological damage that will be done to children who need to observe social interactions in full so they can learn from them will be incalculable. I think our PM is in the grip of some sort of mania.

49264 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, 9, #727 of 1305 🔗

“so much more likely to be spreading the virus around”

… except that the bloody thing barely even exists in the community.

49269 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 2, #728 of 1305 🔗

No one really knows. I suspect it’s still circulating quite strongly but the weak and vulnerable have been picked off by now while the rest of us have been building up defences one way or another. So its effects are much minimised.

49303 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to OKUK, 8, #729 of 1305 🔗

We know the ONS only found 8 positives out of about 25000 tests the last time they tried.

49412 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to guy153, #730 of 1305 🔗

One infected person can produce 7 billion virus particles. If an infected person pops to the shops they will be shedding tens of thousands virus particles.

49535 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to OKUK, #731 of 1305 🔗

But how many virus particles do you need to infect someone?

It’s very difficult to estimate infection potential “from first principles” like this. It’s better just to look at data about numbers of cases and infections and try to estimate R0 (or R) from that.

49414 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to guy153, #732 of 1305 🔗

Do you have a link?

49305 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, 3, #734 of 1305 🔗

“I suspect it’s still circulating quite strongly”

Hard evidence please.

49325 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 8, #735 of 1305 🔗

I think our PM is in the grip of some sort of mania. ” Indeed – a mania of holding on to the immense, unopposed power he now wields, and a mania not to have his massive blunder exposed. He is screwing up an entire country to save his political skin. He wouldn’t be the first.

49362 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 4, #736 of 1305 🔗

An out and out power grab. The megalomania streams out of Hancock too.

49261 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Suitejb, 17, #737 of 1305 🔗

That Boris and his mates are just so out of touch with reality and how people behave is a sad symptom of the fact that most of them are career politicians with no actual business experience whatsoever.

49267 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 12, #738 of 1305 🔗

Exactly! Just seen this on Mason Mills: ‘ There is air outside. Where there is air, there is a risk.’ – Are they all stark staring mad?

49288 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, 16, #739 of 1305 🔗

A fraction of the risk if there was *no* air outside, surely?

49294 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 7, #740 of 1305 🔗

True. If there was no air outside my house, I would be happy with the instruction to “stay home”.

I mean, honestly – “where there’s air, there is risk.” This is a truism. Where there is life, there is risk. People seriously injure themselves putting on their trousers. People get killed crossing the road. Billions of people come into contact with countless trillions of pathogens every day – many of which technically could kill them. Yesterday, my dog suddenly tried to rush into the middle of the road in front of a moving van to grab a piece of bread someone had dropped and nearly took me with him.

We may not have to deal with woolly mammoths and smilodons anymore, but what has happened to this species that we can’t take all this in our stride anymore?

49297 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 3, #741 of 1305 🔗

Ok, I see what you are saying – I interpreted it that he is ‘buying’ all the latest ‘science’ now, that the virus hangs about for hours in the air, meaning because of that, it is SOOO risky to go outside that everyone needs to wear a mask…

49301 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 5, #742 of 1305 🔗

That’s exactly what he’s saying as far as I can tell. I’m just pointing out how stupid he is.

49537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Carrie, #743 of 1305 🔗

Maybe we should all have oxygen tanks on our backs so we can breathe pure air that would ensure no one could get infected lol

49307 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, #744 of 1305 🔗

Who is Mason Mills?

49323 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to John P, 1, #745 of 1305 🔗

Supposed to be Cummings’ Twitter name

49354 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 1, #746 of 1305 🔗

He might be Cummings though he says he is not. But whoever he is, he is clearly an insider or has links to the heart of the government, because he is right about everything – whatever he tweets, always happens..

49365 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, 3, #747 of 1305 🔗

But masks don’t stop “air”, no matter what some people seem to think.

49461 ▶▶▶▶ should_have_been_angry_earlier, replying to Carrie, #748 of 1305 🔗

The only time you don’t face risks is after you’re dead, so they are technically right, where there isn’t air you’re dead. Where there is air, there is therefore risk, get used to it and enjoy it.

49281 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Poppy, #749 of 1305 🔗

No actual experience of any sort tbh…

49265 ▶▶ matt, replying to Suitejb, 19, #750 of 1305 🔗

My observation is that the common or garden mask wearer has three distinct subspecies:
– The first is the most timid of its kind, tends to be over 60 and genuinely concerned for their own safety. Age aside, they can normally be distinguished by the fact that they also wear disposable gloves from the moment they leave their houses to the moment they get home. The sad irony is that, they are scared of catching the virus, not passing it on, and nobody has claimed that the mask reduces your chances of catching it. Also, the gloves make things worse in terms of general hygiene
– The second tend to be under 35. As a rule, they don’t actually care about whether or not masks work, they are wearing masks to make sure you’re aware how wonderful they are and how much they care about those around them. Although, really, they’re wearing masks because the wearing of masks has become a left-liberal (and anti-trump) political statement in the US and as so often happens, it’s bled through into the UK Millenial and Zoomer generations
– The third are about to catch a bus or a train and can’t be bothered with the hassle of not wearing one

49268 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to matt, 3, #751 of 1305 🔗

The first sub species is also completely incapable of wearing a mask properly. Often it slips off or is placed under the nose.

49275 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bumble, 14, #752 of 1305 🔗

Or, they take it off and place it on a cafe table … (yuk).

I spoke to one such over 60 (or we tried to have a conversation, as it was difficult with the sheath of black polyester strapped across her face) and she said she was “terrified”. You see, this is what I don’t understand, if you are “terrified” why would you ‘risk’ your life to have a coffee. It’s all completely irrational.

49287 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to kh1485, 6, #753 of 1305 🔗

If I were a psychopath, this whole thing would be a fascinating psycho-social experiment. It turns out that you can make people absolutely petrified of interacting with other people, but they still want to do it anyway because they’re human beings and that’s what we human beings need to do.

49276 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bumble, 3, #754 of 1305 🔗

I have no intention of wearing mine properly. It’ll also have a slogan on it for when it’s out, but it will spend most of its time in my pocket. Until *told* to do something different. It’s a sort of non-compliance compliance. And when I “comply”, my nose will remain clear of it. Or it’ll be too loose. And I won’t “socially distance” because I’m wearing a mask to protect me.

Loads of ways of having fun with this!

49291 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #755 of 1305 🔗

My mother in Melbourne wants to make herself a mask with a message embroidered on it: Fuck right off Premier Daniel Andrews! Or something to that effect at any rate. Spreading that message is literally the only reason she would wear one, and at present there is no need to wear one in any circumstances anyway.
Do you think there could be a market for Fuck right off Matt Hancock! masks?

49310 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 4, #756 of 1305 🔗

Lol. I’m writing “This is Fascism” on mine.

49403 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #757 of 1305 🔗

Bugger off BoJo badges

49368 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #758 of 1305 🔗

I’m wondering if people would notice if you cut two small and subtle nostril holes into your mask, to aid breathing.

49379 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, #759 of 1305 🔗

They might. Even more fun if they don’t, lol.

49405 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #760 of 1305 🔗

Stick two straws through the holes, tell em it confuses the virus.
or two pencils …

49273 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to matt, #761 of 1305 🔗

I understand the third one. I’m heading to London by train on Thursday and not looking forward to mask aspect of the journey. As I don’t possess one I shall just wear one of my many scarves and pretend all is normal.

49277 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Suitejb, 5, #762 of 1305 🔗

I think I’m going to go to London Bridge on Wednesday (10 minute train journey – 2 hour walk) to meet some friends. I’ll be interested to see if I get challenged, because I’m fairly determined I won’t be eating a mask.

49296 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to matt, #763 of 1305 🔗

Well, I’ve heard of people eating their hats, but that’s a new one on me!

49298 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to IanE, 1, #764 of 1305 🔗

Heh. Wearing. Sorry.

49302 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to matt, #765 of 1305 🔗

Yes – just tickled my sense of humour!

49309 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, #766 of 1305 🔗

“eating” sounds better !

49449 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #767 of 1305 🔗

Eating worked well!

49334 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 2, #768 of 1305 🔗

I’ve been on a couple of trains in the last couple of weeks, mask compliance was maybe 75%, so if you don’t wear one you probably won’t be alone.

49336 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to matt, 1, #769 of 1305 🔗

Don’t walk, probability of getting stabbed is much higher than that of getting c19

49446 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Suitejb, #770 of 1305 🔗

Just slip it off when there’s no railway gestapo around.

49504 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to matt, 1, #771 of 1305 🔗

The second tend to be under 35. As a rule, they don’t actually care about whether or not masks work, they are wearing masks to make sure you’re aware how wonderful they are and how much they care about those around them. Although, really, they’re wearing masks because the wearing of masks has become a left-liberal (and anti-trump) political statement in the US and as so often happens, it’s bled through into the UK Millenial and Zoomer generations

And parading their virtue by posting selfies whilst wearing muzzles on their social media accounts.

49514 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #772 of 1305 🔗

Yes, well said – someone mentioned earlier about a family on a train all masked up, who took a selfie then removed their masks. What’s the betting they posted the selfie on social media to impress people?!

49723 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #773 of 1305 🔗

It would be on Instagram faster than you can say “Covid 19”

49279 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Suitejb, 11, #774 of 1305 🔗

Interestingly I just went onto the Daily Mail (to read an article linked to here), and a little film popped up in the corner, of Priti Patel meeting the French to discuss the migrant issue. At the beginning of the film, everyone was outside, socially distanced and *wearing masks*, but then the film cut to the same group of people all *inside*, where NONE of them was wearing a mask. Totally illogical seeing as it is supposed to be inside environments where people are most at risk….
Maybe they were wearing masks outside, for the media, and forgot that they would then be filmed inside???

49444 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #775 of 1305 🔗

Poseurs!

49249 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 20, #776 of 1305 🔗

BMA release on latest NHS performance stats:

https://www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/nhs-performance-stats-show-the-huge-mountain-we-have-to-climb-as-many-patients-have-suffered-greatly-says-bma

One quote:

“Shockingly, planned operations fell by 80% in May compared to the same month in 2019 and the number of people that have been waiting over a year at the end of May for consultant-referred treatment was 25 times higher this year compared to last.

Who would have guessed that shutting the NHS down would have had that effect?

Not the BMA obviously.

49252 ▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #777 of 1305 🔗

“Shockingly”?

May I go on record as saying that, while this is indeed ‘shocking’ it is not remotely surprising.

49259 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 5, #778 of 1305 🔗

And was aided and abetted by the BMA.

49358 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, #779 of 1305 🔗

Where were they in May? April? March 23rd???

49260 Ed Turnbull, 11, #780 of 1305 🔗

In the light of current events this seems relevant (from the US Declaration of Independence):

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

49266 Bumble, replying to Bumble, 15, #781 of 1305 🔗

Just had an email from Philharmonia Orchestra. All performances at South Bank cancelled until the end of the year. Pathetic. I shan’t be going back again, even when they finally re-open.

49280 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Bumble, 4, #782 of 1305 🔗

Oh but you must! This shit will be over soon, and then we’ll return to our normal routines. If you don’t then they’ve won. Maybe they just want to avoid social distancing and mask wearing, like we do?

49284 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Cruella, 10, #783 of 1305 🔗

No, you must NOT! Don’t let the bastards get away with their appalling behaviour. There MUST be consequences if this is to be stopped from recurring!

49315 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Cruella, 12, #784 of 1305 🔗

Speaking as a someone who is in the arts…… they have been fucking pathetic. Pissing and shitting themselves in a cloak of virtue signalling narcissism.

On the plus side (personally speaking) I have been on hiatus for health reasons for the last two years(ish), and knowing that our sceptic opinion is not being represented within the arts, it has lite a fire under my ass to work on new art every day. Even if I can only manage 15 minutes a day, I have to work towards producing something that represents the reality. It’s never been so important.

Edit: Yes, I see the hypocrisy between the two paragraphs.

49337 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TyLean, 7, #785 of 1305 🔗

They have. These writers and poets, all proclaiming themselves free thinkers. Ha! A few still are, but very much in the minority. As you said, pathetic.

49512 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TyLean, 1, #786 of 1305 🔗

Agree. Too quick to jump on the BLM bandwagon but are too cowardly to speak out against the erosion of our civil liberties and the measures that would hasten the demise of the arts sector in this country.

49322 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bumble, 15, #787 of 1305 🔗

I think orchestras may be gone forever. In the minds of the Coverati, woodwind and brass are practically virus bombs, designed to shower the audience with disease. Same for choirs. You can’t sing in a face nappy.

49377 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #788 of 1305 🔗

There’s a free spot on BBC news for the first tuba player to invent the spittle sock ™. That is how crazy this reality has now become.

49332 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bumble, 6, #789 of 1305 🔗

I told Booths in Hay-on-Wye that last Friday. They wanted me to wear a mask, I refused and was asked to leave. You won’t be seeing me again. Pity really, it’s a good bookshop.

49510 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bumble, 1, #790 of 1305 🔗

I filled out a survey with them some time ago and said that I would boycott if they mandated antisocial distancing and muzzle wearing. Maybe many others had the same thought and even the musicians were against it too.

49593 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Bumble, #791 of 1305 🔗

That is so sad given they are acting purely on guidelines now rather than any laws.
http://laworfiction.com/2020/07/bands-and-orchestras-can-gather-together/

49299 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 7, #792 of 1305 🔗

The mainstream media are REPEATEDLY saying that the science on masks has “moved forward” since the start of the pandemic.

Can anyone with knowledge of the science explain precisely where the science on masks is now, compared to (say) March?

From certain comments tagged on to the bland statement that the science on masks has “moved on” it seems that it may be the science on aerosol spread of coronavirus which has moved on. But surely there is nothing beyond “could” or “possible” on this?

49311 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Gillian, 8, #793 of 1305 🔗

Best as I can tell, scientific studies show that any benefit of masks is minimal at best and the potential dangers far outweigh any supposed benefit. Studies indicate coronavirus does not spread by aerosol or surface smear, only droplets and direct contact – that is now confirmed unlike in March, but you’d think that would be an additional reason NOT to wear masks.

49420 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #794 of 1305 🔗

Do you have links, please? there was a recent paper discussing the aerosol spread possibility, which led me to wonder about spread via air conditioning units in open plan office/factory situations?

49426 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Bruno, #795 of 1305 🔗

There’s plenty on here that Toby finds for us. Read the Swiss Doctor piece if you want links – that site has links aplenty right in the text!

49312 ▶▶ matt, replying to Gillian, 7, #796 of 1305 🔗

I’ll wait for someone qualified to say something. However, it strikes me that the science of masks themselves can’t have moved on in the last six months, because the design of masks has not moved on. The only think I can think of that might have changed “the science” of whether or not masks are any use when it comes to the virus is this speculative “haven’t ruled it out” suggestion that the virus may remain in the air for some time. As I’ve said before, either this piece of speculation is right, in which case the thing is far more infectious than we thought (in which case, it’s too late – we’ve all had it and it turns out it’s not even as deadly as we previously though) or it’s wrong, in which case the WHO really needs to shut up. I can buy the idea that a face covering stops me from broadcasting large droplets as much or as far, but I can’t buy the idea that the thing stops me broadcasting something the size of a virus to any meaningful degree.

49448 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to matt, 1, #797 of 1305 🔗

Don’t forget that they say we can use anything so “mask technology” is irrelevant. All BS

49317 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 2, #798 of 1305 🔗

Did the virus behave like an aerosol during the peak infection times? Did we see clear patterns of infection relating to aerosol? It does appear quite late in the day with x thousands of deaths under their belt that the aerosol transmission has only just been discovered. I woukd suggest South Korea or Hong Kong might have mentioned it. You can see I am not a scientist. You ask good questions Gillian.

49331 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 7, #799 of 1305 🔗

Once again- that marvellous point from the other day.

If it’s airborne, then why do they have to stick a swab halfway into your brain cavity in order to test you?

49376 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Farinances, #800 of 1305 🔗

Isn’t it just.

49324 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gillian, 8, #801 of 1305 🔗

Masks are used for one of two reasons. Either

A to prevent you from contaminating something you are close to, such as a ventilator you’re building. This is to prevent droplets of sputum or mucus, NOT to prevent infection, but because these are basically foreign objects (you release them every time you exhale) that should not be there. Or

B to protect you from inhalation of particles such as dust, or liquids such as paint.

For *aerosols and vapours* you need a respirator, NOT a mask.

49367 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #802 of 1305 🔗

That’s clear. I’ve heard the term “respirator” and THINK I know that it filters out what might be termed “gases” eg water vapour, carbon monoxide. Is an “areosol” a gas? Excuse my ignorance.

49457 ▶▶▶▶ should_have_been_angry_earlier, replying to Gillian, #803 of 1305 🔗

Aerosols are small particles of liquids or solids suspended in the air and able to hang around for a long time. Aerosol particles are much larger than the molecules of most gases, so can sometimes be caught by a very fine weave where gases would get straight through. A mask can sometimes catch them but only under fairly ideal conditions (worn with perfect fit…).

49352 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Gillian, 1, #804 of 1305 🔗

They still have no definitive conclusions on how it’s actually spread. Everything is based on observation and best fit models.

If it’s airbourne then masks may help. If it’s contact then washing hands may help.

I don’t believe for a minute that everything is being learned from scratch with this virus. It’s more likely that despite claims of being experts most of them don’t have a clue and are just winging it.

I’m on Twitter a fair bit these days and follow a few of these said experts and most of the time their evidence is tweeting news articles. One in particular advises the Scottish Government. If they were truly experts they’d be posting facts, not news stories.

49395 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nobody2020, #805 of 1305 🔗

Why don’t they start with what is known about the many other coronaviruses that infect humans?

49513 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to A. Contrarian, #806 of 1305 🔗

Maybe there’s more money in reinventing the wheel.

49433 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nobody2020, #807 of 1305 🔗

The thing I have noticed which I cannot understand is that authorities are still acting as though they know next to nothing, despite the existence of dozens of studies since March clearly showing various aspects of the virus and associated matters, from transmission to severity to mask wearing among others. And still they act as if it’s all a big unknown! It’s completely perplexing.

49397 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Gillian, 3, #808 of 1305 🔗

The key issue is that there is now *no* trace of an ‘epidemic’ or a virus of any particular severity.

That’s the key point : a total fiction before you get to the question of prophylactic/fetishist mask-wearing to ward off the fiction.

Current number : a 10000 :1 chance of meeting a Covid-19 virus infected individual – and rising.

49438 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to RickH, 3, #809 of 1305 🔗

Yes it’s crucial to not forget this is the first argument against them. Even if they could prove that masks are effective (which should have been so easy if it was ‘so obvious’ as some like to claim) when next to no one has the virus, AND next to no one dies or has serious symptoms because of it, then there is no bloody need for the masks.

49427 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Gillian, 4, #810 of 1305 🔗

There’s absolutely nothing new on masks since March. The only thing that’s changed is a few ‘important’ voices have aired their personal opinions on it and that has been amplified massively. Even when the Royal Society attempted their second push last week, their ‘new evidence’ was actually 2 incomplete studies which showed no new scientific evidence whatsoever. Every lab study done that I’ve found, basically finds that you get a slight reduction in forward spray IF masks are properly fitted (at all times), brand new and of the top surgical or n95 type. If not properly fitted (ie – every single member of the general public) you’re just spraying your shit sideways, down and upwards instead of forwards. There is absolutely zero scientific evidence that comes remotely close to suggesting the tiny tiny _potential_ benefits of mask wearing of the entire population could offset the gigantic costs.

49443 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Gillian, 3, #811 of 1305 🔗

It’s very clear that there now appears to be a growing consensus that the science around [insert current issue] is now fixed and it confirms what we have been saying.

49587 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Lockdown Truth, #812 of 1305 🔗

All that needs to be done is erase all the stories shedding doubt on that and it has been true since 1984….

49493 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gillian, 1, #813 of 1305 🔗

There was a story yesterday, i’ll try and dig it out, but there seems to be a new narrative being pushed that “the masks is for protecting others” so I’m expecting it to just be an extension of the “you’re killing others by not wearing a mask” like they did earlier on by saying “you’re killing others by not social distancing”.

49507 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #814 of 1305 🔗

Sounds quite likely… the next move from the behavioural group…

49304 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 9, #815 of 1305 🔗

“More than 100 outbreaks of Covid-19 in the country each week” – The Telegraph. Define “outbreak”.

49314 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bugle, 4, #816 of 1305 🔗

Keeping the pressure on. I’m looking forward to the safety valve blowing off :o))

49318 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Bugle, 4, #817 of 1305 🔗

I assume these are the lockdowns that came from track and trace. We were told that 28000 people had agreed to self-isolate, even though there were and are no penalties for not doing so. It was of course all a load of boll@@cks.

49439 ▶▶▶ should_have_been_angry_earlier, replying to assoc, #818 of 1305 🔗

If they rang you up wouldn’t you SAY you would self-isolate.Lest enough people SAY otherwise and the stasi-state do decide to implement penalties and enforcement (like those Australian fascists have done to the poor people of that melbourne towerblock).

49319 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Bugle, 8, #819 of 1305 🔗

Sensationalist headlines and stories are nothing new in journalism, but the media have plumbed new depths with this virus. It’s crassly irresponsible to knowingly whip up hysteria. I assume they know what they are doing. It’s possible quite a few don’t and they are so lazy they believe the crap they write.

49349 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Julian, #820 of 1305 🔗

See my post above plus link.

49329 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bugle, 4, #821 of 1305 🔗

Two people snogging in an alley getting a mild cough the next day and stupidly getting tested = outbreak

49353 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Farinances, 3, #822 of 1305 🔗

Hahaha, it reminds me of a song title that should be added to our collection ‘I’ll never fall in love again’ Bobbie Gentry. The words go:

What do you get when you kiss a guy, you get enough germs to catch pneumonia

49447 ▶▶▶ should_have_been_angry_earlier, replying to Farinances, #823 of 1305 🔗

If our government cared about actually tracking the virus, rather than oppressing the citizens of Leicester, they’d offer small prizes to areas with high positive tests. That would encourage people to come forward and get tested, and give a better picture of the spread (or rather lack of spread now that we’ve likely got enough T cell immunity). As it is the idiotic threat of lockdowns for anywhere which tests highly would make any sensible person avoid testing, lest you bring down a lockdown on your town. And from such incentives the government can be assured not to get useful stats, unless they don’t actually want to get useful stats.

49579 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Bugle, #824 of 1305 🔗

Where 2 or more cases can be linked to the same source of infection, so pretty wide reaching.

49320 matt, replying to matt, 2, #825 of 1305 🔗

I hesitate a bit to post this, because I know it’s going to create a divide between the “they’re trying to control you” side of the group and the “useless bunch of muppets” side, but…

I can’t work out whether the media focus on face masks has led to the government threatening to impose them, or the media campaign has been a reaction to Johnson feeling the way by wearing one the other day (perhaps in response to the pictures of Sunak _not_ wearing one a couple of days before) and partly deliberately created by the government, or masks becoming compulsory in Scotland on Friday prompted the whole thing. Thoughts?

49326 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 7, #826 of 1305 🔗

Definitely the media leading them. Let’s face it that’s what has happened from the beginning.

(I do have a feeling we may be seeing more of a genuine split between Bedwetter Tories via Boris & Handjob and ‘Common Sense’ Tories to use Gove’s term and this is what is refleted in their attitudes in the media over last few days)

49485 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #827 of 1305 🔗

Definitely the media, then populist Johnson follows suit.

49335 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 32, #828 of 1305 🔗

Is it a pretend disagreement, so that we are duped into thinking they are actually talking about it and have not yet made up their minds? Even though they likely planned every move months ago?

Great quote from Peter Hitchens that I just read: ‘ In the name of Covid, the state has come between spouses at the point of death, practically abolished weddings and funerals, prevented millions from making a living, confined us to our homes. Now it tells us what to wear. Is there no point at which people will say ‘enough’ ?’

49342 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, 16, #829 of 1305 🔗

Re. that last sentence, this is what I have been wondering for many weeks now. This servile compliance is deeply troubling.

49338 ▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 2, #830 of 1305 🔗

You could ask that question about the whole coronavirus panicdemic.

I agree, I think it’s hard to say, but I think Boris clearly wants them.

49339 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 6, #831 of 1305 🔗

More likely Bill Gates has told him to mandate them..

Just seen this which is worrying: ‘ Minister says preparations taking place to counter Covid-19 vaccine opponents – Evening Express’

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1282682678286770178?cxt=HHwWhICj7bLGgM0jAAAA

49345 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 4, #832 of 1305 🔗

They clearly want to force a vaccine on people with or without Gates’ help!

49350 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, #833 of 1305 🔗

Just seen this too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=AC6xn1pZp6E&feature=emb_logo
Check out Jacinda Ardern with the evil Gates couple..

49359 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 3, #834 of 1305 🔗

Ardern is bonkers.

I saw her filmed a few days ago. Someone posted it on twitter.

If I remember it correctly, she was talking about how people in New Zealand would not be allowed out of hospitals unless they consented to be tested for coronavirus.

It could just be me, but I thought I could see a malevolent glint in her eyes as she said it …

If I can find it I will post it.

49366 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 1, #835 of 1305 🔗

What do you all make of this little clip of Jacinda? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7YiFQFk6fc
Look carefully at the crotch area..

49396 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Carrie, 2, #836 of 1305 🔗

Mr jacinda

49481 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Chris John, #837 of 1305 🔗

Exactly 😉

49421 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Carrie, #838 of 1305 🔗
49346 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 5, #839 of 1305 🔗

What are they going to do ? Shove us all in Room 101 for re-education?

49360 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Farinances, 1, #840 of 1305 🔗

I think some of them would like to!

49370 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Carrie, 6, #841 of 1305 🔗

Thanks for this. So 31% are saying they do not plan to have the vaccine. I’m in.

49515 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bugle, #842 of 1305 🔗

That’s pretty high to say 70% of people or whatever it is are still in favour of lockdown. Maybe they all just want to live on gvt. dole in their houses in definitely without a vaccine :/

49341 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, 5, #843 of 1305 🔗

BTW matt:

“I know it’s going to create a divide between the they’re trying to control you” side of the group and the “useless bunch of muppets” side

They are both trying to control people and a useless bunch of muppets. if they were competent they wouldn’t be trying to control people!

49348 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to John P, 5, #844 of 1305 🔗

Exactly. They only need to control people BECAUSE they are a useless bunch of muppets who cann’t govern competently without such macchinations

49393 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Farinances, 4, #845 of 1305 🔗

This is a government which has perpetrated a monstrous fraud. If the public ever realises the extent of the deception and the means used to implement it, the government is finished. In addition, this is a weak government because of its ineptitude, an implausible government because of its indecision, and an impoverished government because it has destroyed its own tax base.

Weak governments resort to petty measures, gimmicks and bullying.

49462 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bugle, #846 of 1305 🔗

Well said! Not the only government to have done so – although maybe on a bigger scale than has happened in other countries..

49464 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bugle, 2, #847 of 1305 🔗

Not are this government finished but the Tory party is possibly too – hence the line-towing from all involved.

What I can’t understand is why Comrade Starmer isn’t fully taking them to task. I suppose knowing his party has been complicit from the beginning also…… but hey, hasn’t stopped a wily politician from flip-flip-flopping to take advantage. The ‘But now it’s disproportionate’ route would be very easy to take at this point.

49475 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Farinances, 2, #848 of 1305 🔗

Starmer and Labour just have to stay silent the majority of the time and occasionally criticise the government on some minor point and they can’t lose really. Labour are just about virtual signalling at the moment not serious issues.

49351 ▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 6, #849 of 1305 🔗

I think the government see masks as the ideal light-touch way of perpetuating the hysteria and the control, and covering up their blunder, at the same time allowing “normal” economic activity to happen so they can start to repair the economy. Whether the media have been orchestrated by the government on this issue, or the government picked up on the trend and got on the bandwagon when they saw the potential, we may never know.

49355 ▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 7, #850 of 1305 🔗

This from the report in the Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8516741/Boris-Johnson-Michael-Gove-clash-face-masks-shops.html

“A Whitehall source said the Government had now acquired ten production lines, each capable of producing half a million masks per week.
Five are already operating, with the rest expected to complete safety tests within days.”

They’ve been planning it for a while, one imagines, for them to have got that far.

49465 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, #851 of 1305 🔗

Do they expect us all to buy these, I wonder?

49502 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #852 of 1305 🔗

Maybe the plan is for the same bods who make you sanitise your hands as you enter a shop to also hand you a mask if you are not wearing one?

49519 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 1, #853 of 1305 🔗

So our taxes are gnna be paying for face nappies. Joy.

49525 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #854 of 1305 🔗

I have no information… it was just a theory..

49356 ▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 25, #855 of 1305 🔗

Also from the same report in the Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8516741/Boris-Johnson-Michael-Gove-clash-face-masks-shops.html

“But Tory MP Sir Christopher Chope urged ministers not to make masks compulsory, saying he would stop shopping if required to wear one.
He said ministers should keep things in perspective and be ‘trying to build confidence about the nature of the risk involved’.”

Finally! Something approaching an MP talking sense.

49383 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Julian, 5, #856 of 1305 🔗

He was on R4 today pm talking a lot of sense versus a Professor of social behaviour talking non-sense.

49505 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Keen Cook, #857 of 1305 🔗

Great – hopefully others will follow suit!

49361 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to matt, 15, #858 of 1305 🔗

The mask issue is 99% political and 1 % science. There is no scientific evidence to suggest wearing a face nappy is an effective measure in reducing viral transmission. Nil .
All the supporters of face nappies on the medical side are left wingers, and ardent Remainers. The GP leading the bandwagon is Trish Greenhalgh who used to write the most tedious boring cloumn in the BMJ.

It seems Boris is now jumping on the face nappy bandwagon . It wont stop with shops. The aim is ALL public enclosed areas eg workplaces theatres museums.

49389 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #859 of 1305 🔗

1% ‘Science’?????

You’re being generous!!! 0% is a better estimate.

49435 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to RickH, 5, #860 of 1305 🔗

Yes it’s 100% political. Absolutely nothing to do with science except window dressing to try to make it look it’s about science

49436 ▶▶▶ should_have_been_angry_earlier, replying to Peter Thompson, #861 of 1305 🔗

That is the trouble, you can’t wear a mask, even if it is a good idea, without looking like one of those whingeing lockdown zealots.

49451 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #862 of 1305 🔗

Thank you for this. This has been pretty much my understanding. I’m also not very convinced that masks are significantly actively harmful, but there seems to be next-to-no evidence that they’re remotely useful. It strikes me that this is a transatlantic transfer of the fact that the wearing of masks has become a signal of anti-Trump virtue in the US – not helped by the fact that there seems to be some weird connection with the BLM movement (timing? Something else?). The message seems to me to be “you should wear masks, because… masks.”

Either way and regardless of the reasons, I’m not inclined to wear one of the bloody things if they tell me that it helps to control the spread of a virus that I don’t have and which is mostly irrelevant anyway and I’m not inclined to wear one because everyone thinks I should and I’m not inclined to wear one if it’s a symbol of the control that the government seeks to impose on my life.

49576 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Peter Thompson, #863 of 1305 🔗

Exactly this! No one on the other side can see the slippery slope it leads to, maybe even ending up like South Africa with everywhere except your house having to wear a mask. They seem to believe that if only everyone wore masks it would all be over quickly and we could return to normal!

49364 ▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 5, #864 of 1305 🔗

I think they’re a useless bunch of muppets who are trying to control us.

Not sure where it started but this whole mask thing is really “trending” at the moment and they’re getting caught up in it. They also probably think it will encourage people back to the shops as they will feel safer if everyone is wearing one.

49843 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, #865 of 1305 🔗

Hmm – if their goal is control, they’re being very effective at it. So I don’t think useless bunch of muppets applies in that case.

49400 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 1, #866 of 1305 🔗

I think Sturgeon gets to them – in many ways she has the Scottish people onside. Of course it’s a terrible error to read across from Scotland to England & Wales. Beyond that I do think Johnson is suffering from PTSD and is in the grip of some sort of mania.

49423 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to matt, 1, #867 of 1305 🔗

I thought the media was leading the government. But as OFCOM is controlling the broadcast media (they have been told not to question the government line) and government has similar control over the mainstream newspapers. I would suggest the government / civil service is very much in control even if they give the impression they aren’t. It is possible they are testing public reaction.

49440 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Darryl, 4, #868 of 1305 🔗

Correct. You can see it happening over a few weeks. A story is put out on BBC etc with no fanfare like this one where everyone has face masks on in the woods but it’s not about face masks. Nobody complains. so more masks images are published. Then Scotland make them compulsory in shops and there are no riots. That paves the way for shops in England & Wales and then everywhere in public next step. The media are part of the conditioning/normalising and testing of opinion.

49467 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #869 of 1305 🔗

The BBC are very clever at what they do – they certainly fool the vast majority of the public. A Telegraph article regarding the BBC today used the phrase ‘Newspeak’ which is certainly appropriate for much of their coverage. The BBC version of the world certainly isn’t strictly reality, much of it is propaganda.

49328 John P, 2, #870 of 1305 🔗

This piece showing a Chinese man smoking through a mask was posted in 2017.

(8 seconds long)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7EviRWWD8w

49330 AMZ, 1, #871 of 1305 🔗

Today I took my youngest daughter to Brighton for her first post(?)-lockdown shopping trip. My daughter was understandably really excited. We parked at Churchill Square and we’re just making our way through the shopping centre when I bumped into a woman as we each came round a corner in opposite directions. She shouted at me for not keeping social distancing. She bumped into me as much as I bumped into her so I replied “social distancing is a two-way street.” She and her friend swore at me (F-word) and stuck their fingers up. They were both wearing face masks. I can’t help thinking they wouldn’t have behaved as abusively if I’d been able to see their faces and that they felt they were anonymous and could behave however they wanted. A bit like the anonymity of social media encourages people to be abusive and bullying in a way they wouldn’t be in real life. If face masks become compulsory we might be subject to a lot more of this kind of behaviour. My daughter was very upset and we almost decided to go home but I’m glad we didn’t because we had fantastic burgers at Patty and Bun. First post-lockdown meal out – nothing can spoil that!! Bring on normal normal!

49340 Cheezilla, 2, #872 of 1305 🔗
49344 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 6, #873 of 1305 🔗

Anyone who is interested in “How SAGE and the UK media created fear in the British public” should read this, especially “Increased UK government media spending.”

https://evidencenotfear.com/how-sage-and-uk-media-created-fear-in-the-british-public/

49378 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Bugle, 8, #874 of 1305 🔗

Criminal in my opinion. Just sent my third email to MP.

49381 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Keen Cook, 6, #875 of 1305 🔗

Another E mail to my MP today too, plus a thank you to Sir Christopher Chope for being the only MP that I am aware of who has stood up against this nonsense about masks.

49506 ▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Margaret, #876 of 1305 🔗

Yes. I’ve written to my MP again. I’m actually losing sleep over this wretched mask diktat.

49523 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, #877 of 1305 🔗

I’m wondering whether we should ALL write to Christopher Chope so he knows that there are a lot of us against masks..?

49410 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Bugle, 3, #878 of 1305 🔗

Such a simple and frightening tactic. And how successful it’s been.

49526 ▶▶ matt, replying to Bugle, 2, #879 of 1305 🔗

What bothers me about this is – how did they nobble the BBC? Money will clearly work with commercial outlets, but the BBC runs no advertising and the government doesn’t seem to be bending on reducing their income (going ahead with both getting rid of free licences for the over-75s and decriminalising non-payment of the licence fee).

Sure, the BBC is a state broadcaster,but they’re not known for following the government line, especially in the last decade. Nonetheless, their output has been uniformly on-message propaganda from the start.

49538 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to matt, #880 of 1305 🔗

Interesting question. I’ll have to give it some attention. I imagine the BBC and the government have cut some kind of deal, or the people who really pull the strings have ‘encouraged’ the BBC and HMG to co-operate.

49836 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bugle, #881 of 1305 🔗

Every bbc employee since its inception has had to be vetted by MI5.

49554 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to matt, #882 of 1305 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding

Read the second paragraph. Second line.

Question answered?

49569 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, #883 of 1305 🔗

Meh. No, not really, because the Gates thing doesn’t really do it for me.

49363 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 7, #884 of 1305 🔗

Actually, the more I think about it the more I hope they do make it ‘mandatory’. This could be the tipping point when enough sensible people say ‘enough of the nonsense’. The very controversy itself will lead to more reporting of anti lockdown positions and people looking elsewhere for more honest and less hysterical media. Go on Boris, make my day!

49387 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Chris Hume, 7, #885 of 1305 🔗

This. Yes. Not to wish mandatory because this has gone far enough. But each and every rule comes with the opportunity to break. Mask wearing or not is something everyone can actively participate in.

49371 Christina Fletcher, 2, #886 of 1305 🔗

I think it is time a lockdown sceptic demonstration was organised, it is all very well moaning away online, but it seems not many people are aware there is any dissent at all! We should march the streets and demand for a return to normal (and not a ghastly “new normal”), this whole thing is a scam which can only be revealed with dedicated protests. Name date and city I’ll be there!

49373 Old Bill, 5, #887 of 1305 🔗

I think it is time for Boris to blow another bubble. Though you do wonder how he’ll manage with a mask on.

49375 ted, replying to ted, 10, #888 of 1305 🔗

For those puzzled as to why “cases” have gone nuts in the US of A since early June, I received an email from my employer today that provides anecdotal evidence anyway that supports the double and triple counting of “cases”. We have a subcontractor that provides custodial and facilities maintenance services. This subcontractor has set a policy for employees who receive positive tests, they must have two (2!) negative tests before they can return to work as part of company policy. If this is a typical policy for most firms, it would go along way to explaining why the US is unique in the history of epidemics of having a stair step epidemic curve. Once widespread testing of “positives” was brought in to the work place, and largely disassociated from actual illness (if one employee is positive then all who had contact are also tested), then “cases” went up dramatically … same positive case tested multiple times and each reported by the state as distinct cases of infection as opposed to just more tests of the same person.

The Health Agencies know of this problem. For example, our county reports on its website :

Can more than one test be attributed to the same person?

Yes, more than one test may be attributed to the same person. Some people in high-risk occupations or settings, such as health care workers or skilled nursing facility residents may need to be tested on multiple occasions due to ongoing elevated risk of infections. Each of these tests represents potential risk of infection, therefore it is important to capture all tests.

It may indeed, be important to “capture all tests” but NOT if you are trying to inform the public about illness prevalence. If one person is tested 5 times before rolling double negatives, that is not 5 “cases” of infection, but one case tested 5 times. Obviously, when mixed with widespread use of a practice for all companies, not just health care, it will drive the percent positive up due to sampling bias toward those who have already had one positive test, often dramatically so.

Evidence mounting that the summer wave in the US is a pseudo outbreak .

49391 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to ted, 5, #889 of 1305 🔗

Know someone working in private healthcare in a London hospital dealing with p patients cancer etc. She got the virus early April, at home for 10 days. Had to be tested 3 times before she tested negative and went straight back to work. She felt better after about a week. All those then counted as separate tests.

49398 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Keen Cook, #890 of 1305 🔗

See the gov.uk website – The UK publishes figures adjusted for this:
“People tested’ figures are published as part of the weekly Test and Trace publication. Many people are retested multiple times for valid reasons, such as regular testing of health and care workers over several months.

The ‘people tested’ measure was initially used to avoid counting one person tested several times in a short space of time. It no longer usefully reflects the volume of tests carried out as, for example, a healthcare worker receiving their second, third or fourth test since the start of the pandemic would not be counted as they have been tested once before. Therefore, the people tested figure will be published on a weekly basis within the NHS Test and Trace statistics rather than daily.”

49455 ▶▶ matt, replying to ted, 2, #891 of 1305 🔗

Beeb were gloating the other day that there was now a significant increase in hospitalisations in FL and TX and that some hospitals were close to being “overwhelmed”. Does anyone have any stats on this? I’m sceptical, but would like to see numbers before coming to a conclusion (because I’m sceptical).

49604 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to matt, #892 of 1305 🔗

Take a look at this

“One of the key reasons for the increase in hospitalizations has also not been widely reported. They are in part due to the re-opening of hospitals to elective surgeries and procedures. These had previously been categorized as non-essential by many state authorities. Hospitals are also using ICU wards to isolate Covid-19 cases and not for the usual ICU acuity care. In addition, some of the ICU admissions are for relatively routine, not Covid-19, hospitalizations”.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/07/no_more_pandemic_panic_please.html#ixzz6S754caNn
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/07/no_more_pandemic_panic_please.html

49380 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 2, #893 of 1305 🔗

Covid-19 A Once in a Century Fiasco in the Making
https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/covid-19-once-century-fiasco-making

49460 ▶▶ matt, replying to Victoria, 1, #894 of 1305 🔗

Once in a century? I suppose that WW1 was similarly futile, but can you name another event in the 200 years before that that was so utterly pointlessly destructive?

49382 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 40, #895 of 1305 🔗

Christ – we’re drowning in minutiae now. MSM have been on all day about masks/no masks/what kind of circumstances in which to wear them/social ostracism/type … ad nauseam. There is one question only we should be asking: “Is the current situation bad enough to justify the government withdrawal of our fundamental Magna Carta rights?” Obviously it isn’t. Not even a scintilla of an argument that justifies their current position. That’s all we should be saying.

49385 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #896 of 1305 🔗

Exactly!

49390 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to James Leary #KBF, 16, #897 of 1305 🔗

Precisely. I have spoken to just one person who is bothered about the total withdrawal of our liberty. No-one else seems remotely concerned and I find that very, very frightening.

And now, if I don’t wear a mask, I will be labelled a ‘granny-killer’

49466 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 6, #898 of 1305 🔗

That’s because they believe it’s temporary and the Gov will actually hand our freedom back. It’s amazing how naive the majority of people are.

49548 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 5, #899 of 1305 🔗

This that I just read on Twitter, is what we need to be pointing out to the naive: ‘ IF facemasks = compulsory (until a vaccine is found) THEN vaccine = compulsory. That’s why resisting this mandating of masks is a must.’

To be followed by ‘How long do you think it will take to get a vaccine that is safe? Because we do not yet have a vaccine for the common cold which is also a coronavirus, nor for any of the recent new viruses. And quickly rushed out vaccines have led to permanent side effects like narcolepsy. Are you prepared to risk that?’

49408 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #900 of 1305 🔗

Unfortunately the media always seem to get their way. I honestly can’t believe why people trust the main stream media still after basically printing and televising 4 months of propaganda.

UKColumn had a piece today on the NBC feature were they followed a Doctor supposedly in hospital for a couple of months with Covid-19 – it turned out he had been tested several times and he was negative every time. Outright fake news. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr30K_x-RsQ (story at 8 minutes)

49394 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 53, #901 of 1305 🔗

My family own a couple of convenience stores, one of them managed by myself. There is no way in a million years I will enforce this disgusting, Orwellian assault on our freedoms regarding muzzles.

We pride ourselves on fantastic customer service, but I am genuinely prepared to tell any hysterical bedwetters to piss off and shop somewhere else if they start sounding off. We are at war with this despotic government, and these muzzle fanatics are collaborators.

49458 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Scotty87, 6, #902 of 1305 🔗

Good for you.

49399 Darryl, 1, #903 of 1305 🔗

There is an interesting YouTube channel documenting New York over the last months. There are lots of short videos without commentary many just showing the madness of mask wearing. I think his side effects of wearing a face mask is quite appropriate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHSuW87NwbM

49401 NowTheyLockEverythingElseDownToo, #904 of 1305 🔗

The consequences we feared from global lockdowns are coming true, people who rolled over to lose the freedom to go outside are now being assaulted with other losses of liberties. In the USA the government is trying to get backdoors (the “EARN-IT” conspiracy) mandated to spy on everyone’s private internet communications (you can be assured it won’t be used for specific targets of government interest only, it will be used for gathering everyone’s data to keep them scared). In Germany the government is planning on mandating Internet service providers to install equipment to make realtime attacks on https encryption, and to supply fake data too, think creating man in the middle systems to serve you up a fake login page for your email or bank and harvest your credentials. Modern Germany have often been pretty good on civil rights, they remember the evils of the stasi of course, but the fact they’re wlling to consider this shows the power of lockdown has gone to the heads of those in control. Mexico is planning to ban people from truly owning their own computers, by forbidding them from performing any tinkering or reverse engineering to overcome DRM interference on printer cartridges and entertainment media, and by banning them from runing superior linux operating systems to get away from Micro$oft’s monopoly. Around the world facial recognition technologies are spreading, numerous arrests of the wrong person have been made when cops happily believed the algorithms to be right. And all this going on in a time when the illegal lockdowns and foolish travel restrictions have made the ability to be free online, and secure from intrusion there by governments, all the more important for commerce and society in general. People let the lockdown steal their rights, the authoritarians are back for a second helping before the first has even finished. This is what the people get if they don’t protest lockdowns, governments that have seen that promises of safety let them get away with anything.

49404 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 10, #905 of 1305 🔗

Has Johnson gone mad? He looks odd and his behaviour appears slightly demented. I think he’s in the grip of some sort of mania, which has fixed on masks. Perhaps he has a form of PTSD…any thoughts?

49411 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to OKUK, 4, #906 of 1305 🔗

He certainly looks a completely spent force since his hospitalisation. I never thought I would say this, but I would honestly prefer Michael Gove to take over as PM.

49416 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Darryl, 2, #907 of 1305 🔗

I’m beginning to wonder about that. Him or Raab.

49417 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to OKUK, 6, #908 of 1305 🔗

Somebody needs to break into Number 10, drag Johnson out by his hair and deposit him in the Tower. In fact it’s a pity they don’t put heads on Traitor’s Gate any more because I never saw a more worthy cause.

But Gove to take over?

A reptile as a Prime Minister?

At least the wokes couldn’t accuse you of not being inclusive.

49454 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Old Bill, #909 of 1305 🔗

Boris doesn’t look like he has been in charged since he had his hand forced on lockdown by Imperial College. I am not sure who the puppet master is, the WHO certainly doesn’t look like the model of competency. Can’t see how he can survive much longer, but I don’t want political instability and another election.

49478 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, 4, #910 of 1305 🔗

I still find it somewhat surprising that he got the virus, also that Prince Charles got it.. I mean compared to supermarket workers (who seems to have managed to avoid it), he doesn’t meet anywhere near as many people on a daily business..

49482 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Carrie, 1, #911 of 1305 🔗

Makes you wonder, maybe bad luck or deliberately infected.

49490 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Darryl, 1, #912 of 1305 🔗

Don’t have to believe in a formal conspiracy to agree that some of those leftist SAGE types would have deliberately attempted to infect him if they knew that had the virus.

49497 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Darryl, 1, #913 of 1305 🔗

Maybe he was deliberately infected with something very similar, to get him into hospital, then sedated and injected with something else – he does seem very different now.. Or are we seeing a clone 😉 ?!!!

49549 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Carrie, 2, #914 of 1305 🔗

He’s no different now, just as much a useless clown as he always has been. Just now enough people inexplicably thought he could run a country so he’s in a position to do serious harm.

49705 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter, replying to Darryl, #915 of 1305 🔗

How about they were flat out lying.

49524 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Carrie, #916 of 1305 🔗

Politicians most got tested supermarket workers dont unless they get symptons probably quite a few have had it without knowing

49563 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, #917 of 1305 🔗

He was a bit idiotic about it at the beginning I think, shaking hands with people in hospital and so on, to prove that he wasn’t scared. Ironic really! And half the cabinet seemed to have it at the same time. Charles is more surprising however!

49419 ▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 3, #918 of 1305 🔗

He’s worried about being found out – that could make you look manic and stressed.

49520 ▶▶ Nic, replying to OKUK, 1, #919 of 1305 🔗

He doesent need a mask hes already had it

49561 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #920 of 1305 🔗

Mind control. Drugs. Demonic possession.

49407 Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #921 of 1305 🔗

In the Lockdown newsletter I receive, the first article in today’s was “Revelations of an NHS Whistleblower”. I wanted to share today’s newsletter on Facebook, particularly for that article. I will instead share the link to the article in the Bernician, but why isn’t it here?

49422 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #922 of 1305 🔗

It was originally from a David Icke website, so was removed due to it being of dubious veracity, I assume. Here’s the original: https://davidicke.com/2020/07/11/nhs-consultant-on-the-truth-behind-the-covid-pandemic/

49429 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #923 of 1305 🔗

It appears most of the articles on David Icke’s site are sourced from other websites. I guess it is entirely possible the source is genuine. It is difficult to verify any whistleblower article by their very nature. It certainly isn’t easy to speak out about the NHS if you are an employee – the organisation usually closes ranks and often ostracises whistleblowers.

49456 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Darryl, 1, #924 of 1305 🔗

Exactly he could have got it from anywhere – as did we. Unfortunately I understand why Toby doesn’t want to be tarred with *that* brush.

49552 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Farinances, 1, #925 of 1305 🔗

The claim about a deliberate plot to organise ambulances to drive around Surrey with lights flashing to give a false impression struck me as very unlikely.

49571 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Cambridge N, #926 of 1305 🔗

It sounded plausible up until that and the 95% decrease in figures, I suspect it is compiled of someone speaking to doctors and then simply exaggerating for effect, albeit I do hope it is true and someone comes forth to claim it as their own.

49434 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #927 of 1305 🔗

Have you seen the report Toby put on here from a Leicester doctor. It is in the side bar, Leicester’s unnecessary second lockdown or similar

49496 ▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Dave #KBF, #928 of 1305 🔗

Yes I have, thank you. I did share that one. Was just about to share the article from the Bernician on Facebook but checked for replies here first! Glad I did. How I wish I knew whether it was true or not.

49498 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #929 of 1305 🔗

Earlier on this thread other medics, and people who know medics, have said that they have heard pretty much the same stories… Hope they will contact Simon Dolan!

49550 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Carrie, #930 of 1305 🔗

I’ve been trying to persuade my relative to do this, but the threat of them getting the sack is more persuasive… There are members of the public desperate for justice and getting none from the NHS itself.

49545 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #931 of 1305 🔗

It was posted by Gareth Icke, David’s son. If you can find a way of contacting him, maybe you can get to the bottom of whether this is genuine?

49415 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #932 of 1305 🔗

Someone on here posted earlier that Lidl have announced no enforcement of masks in their shops. Even if the government make it mandatory?

49428 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to A. Contrarian, 13, #933 of 1305 🔗

If true, that sounds like the best marketing strategy I have heard during this madness.

49486 ▶▶ matt, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #934 of 1305 🔗

They’ve announced it in Scotland, where it is mandatory, so yes apparently

49517 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #935 of 1305 🔗

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/lidl-scotland-face-masks-coverings-18584765

Staff won’t be expected to enforce – quite right too. A bit like bus drivers. A lot of firms will probably say this to staff, to avoid trouble, but may get security firms in to do it for them.

49562 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, #936 of 1305 🔗

Thanks. Hopefully they’ll do the same if they are mandated here.

49812 ▶▶▶ alison, replying to Julian, #937 of 1305 🔗

This is great news, keep meaning to go to Lidl but too lazy to go past the Waitrose on the way. Think I’ve just found the necessary motivation. I’ll save a fortune apart from anything else.

49418 should_have_been_angry_earlier, #939 of 1305 🔗

I’m finding it really quite bizarre, the press (or the daily Telegraph at any rate) is so strongly against masks, pointless, ineffective and uncomfortable, but in the grand scheme of things fairly trivial. Why were they not hard against the lockdown from the start, pointless, ineffective and disastrous, and in the grand scheme of things probably the worst single abuse of the civil liberties of the widespread population that the UK has ever seen? Where was all this furious bile when it counted for something, rather than simply quibbling about a silly bit of fabric/paper.

49430 Sonia, #940 of 1305 🔗

At the end of April I saw an interview with a Czech microbiologist who developed a test for the coronavirus and subsequently identified the first two positive tests in the Czech Republic. In this interview she said the virus does not have characteristics of natural virus ie it is from a lab and she also said the children are so rarely affected because they are often fighting some or the other common colds. Not that her expert opinion would have any effect on the government or public response.

https://radiozurnal.rozhlas.cz/sona-pekova-novy-koronavirus-povazuju-za-umele-vytvoreny-nema-charakteristiky-8187948

49432 Jeremy Enns, replying to Jeremy Enns, 4, #941 of 1305 🔗

People in my age group seem to be the stupidest of all! Apparently they think the risk of hospitalization from Covid-19 is the same as the risk of getting the virus 😂 🤣 😂

49479 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jeremy Enns, #942 of 1305 🔗

About zero???

49437 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #943 of 1305 🔗

This, from Peter Hitchen’s Sunday column (the bold emphasis is mine):

‘What news from Leicester, where the dreaded virus surged after a huge number of new testing centres opened? Well, the number of ‘cases’ (not deaths, or even illnesses) seems to be staying high.

And why not when, as the council reports: ‘This week, hundreds of staff and trained volunteers will be calling on people at home to offer them a free test, with mobile testing units popping up in local neighbourhoods. Community testing will initially focus on areas in the north-east of the city, where the number of positive results has been higher… but it will be extended to other parts of the city from this weekend.’

How will Hancock explain this one? Either lockdown doesn’t work, or people aren’t obeying lockdown any more in which case lockdown still doesn’t work. How long can they keep them all locked up while they do test after test after test? Until the end of time?!

49453 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #944 of 1305 🔗

I’ve said it before and here it comes again – the only way this stops is if people refuse to be tested en masse. Then they either force us – and look like the tyrants they are – or it all goes away pretty damn quickly.

49476 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 2, #945 of 1305 🔗

The problem is that in the law they created, all they have to do is say they suspect you (or your kids even) of having the virus, that you are a danger, and they can cart you off and detain you till you agree to a test..

49503 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 5, #946 of 1305 🔗

Then we make them do this, basically. Either they have the balls to do it, or they don’t.

My guess is they don’t.

If they do, it will reveal who they are pretty quickly and we will know where the cards lay – i.e. that we need to get out the streets poste haste. And so, one presumes will the rest of the country because they can’t hide what they’re doing once they start dragging people off and forcibly testing them.

But they wouldn’t. Honestly. They don’t have the balls.

49521 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #947 of 1305 🔗

I hope you are right!

49543 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Farinances, #948 of 1305 🔗

Farinances – I know you’re right… They are cowards and liars.

49508 ▶▶ Nic, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #949 of 1305 🔗

Dont have a test I wont be only way to stop the bastsrds

49442 Achilles heel, #950 of 1305 🔗

Can someone please explain how wearing a face mask is meant to encourage people back into shops. It has totally the other effect on me. Also does this apply in restaurants and pubs? The whole thing is just ludicrous and only helps propogate the feeling of fear that is totally unfounded.

PS I Love how normal Lidl is and have become convert because the oppressiveness emanating from my local Waitrose.

49459 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 14, #951 of 1305 🔗

Hi all

Everyone says we should be doing something about this. Well I am. Sort of. I want to make this CrowdJustice thing happen . I have a great barrister lined up to give the initial advice and set up the campaign but he’s not pro bono. So I either need to raise some initial seed cash or get a barrister to do the initial pro bono work.

I have a great spokesperson who will cause a storm. They are a public figure who takes no BS. I’m already starting to plan his appearances on podcasts, vlogs, etc.

Are any of you barristers or know a barrister who is on our side and would help set up a Crowd Justice campaign?

Failing that how many of you would be willing to make a donation AND/OR share share share about this on social media etc?

Everyone please say yes….

49469 ▶▶ matt, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #952 of 1305 🔗

Off the top of my ahead, I know 5 barristers, including 3 QCs and every single one of them is far too worried to step out of line on this subject, depressingly.

49471 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, #953 of 1305 🔗

As for a donation – quite possibly.

49472 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to matt, #954 of 1305 🔗

Yes to the donation. I avoid social media like the plague.

49558 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mr Dee, #955 of 1305 🔗

Me too

49470 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, #956 of 1305 🔗

YES!

49474 ▶▶ MrPudgy, replying to Lockdown Truth, #957 of 1305 🔗

Would be happy to donate.

49509 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown Truth, #958 of 1305 🔗

Happy to donate; sorry I’m not on social media.

49529 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Lockdown Truth, #959 of 1305 🔗

More than happy to donate and happy to share on twitter.

49544 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #960 of 1305 🔗

Is it worth contacting Francis Hoar? He’s the barrister who’s working with Simon Dolan. Whilst he might not be able to support this crowd justice appeal he may know of another barrister who is willing to help.

49590 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to ambwozere, 2, #961 of 1305 🔗

I have already been in touch with him and he has kindly given me some advice.

49585 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lockdown Truth, #962 of 1305 🔗
49618 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Bruno, #963 of 1305 🔗

Just sent them a begging letter! Thanks

49463 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, #964 of 1305 🔗

A few weeks ago I volunteered to take part in a survey by a group called the Mindset Consumer Panel. I thought you might be interested in their initial findings, which were emailed to me about an hour ago. This is the only information sent to me so far – I’ll email them and ask for a more detailed analysis when it’s ready.

Thank you for taking the time to answer our survey. We really appreciate your input. The research has provided some fascinating insights into people’s behaviour…

·         59% of our sample think they might have broken the rules governing the recent Covid-19 lockdown
·         The most law-abiding group are the over 65’s
·         Based on a smaller sample, it appears that the under 25’s are almost universally likely to have broken the rules
·         49% of our sample think that ‘most’ people followed the rules properly, whilst 13% stated only ‘a few’ had.

49480 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #965 of 1305 🔗

I wonder how many of the 59% think they broke the lockdown because the rules became impossible to understand very early in the “easing”?

49527 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to matt, #966 of 1305 🔗

When did easing start taking placing? I completed the questionnaire on June 26.

49565 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mr Dee, #967 of 1305 🔗

Oh, god – I don’t know. When they allowed us to sit in a park rather than just move around, I suppose. Thank you, Mr Johnson, I may now meet another person not in my household in the open air. I am most grateful for these crumbs of kindness.

49484 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, #968 of 1305 🔗

How truthful do you think people were in their answers?

49516 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Carrie, #969 of 1305 🔗

Well, it was all completely anonymous, so they had nothing to gain from lying. I was very forthright and quite vociferous in my answers. If the Stasi got hold of my replies I’d be sent to re-education camp.

49468 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #970 of 1305 🔗

Avoidable tragedies:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jul/13/deaths-special-needs-children-kent-raise-concerns-over-school-closures

Five children with special educational needs have killed themselves in the space of three months in Kent, a council chief has revealed in a warning over the impact of school closures on pupils.
Sarah Hammond, the director of integrated children’s services in Kent and Medway, said two or three child suicides would ordinarily be expected over 12 months.

…..The Kent and Medway suicides involved three boys and two girls aged 13-17. Most had previously had some kind of contact with mental health support services. A further two teenage boys made serious suicide attempts resulting in life-changing injuries. Kent has also recorded two suicides among care leavers, aged 20 and 21, and three suicides of vulnerable mothers.

….. Hammond said: “We worked really, really hard to get parents to send their children in, but we never got above 10% [of vulnerable children entitled to a school place],”
“All through this pandemic, this whole group of children could and should have been at school. But it was the severity of message about the danger of the virus that very understandably frightened parents.”

49487 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #971 of 1305 🔗

The utter bastard. How dare he shake his head sadly?

49500 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #972 of 1305 🔗

This is just disgusting, truly disgusting that this is apparently ‘justififed’ in order to protect political hides

49483 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #973 of 1305 🔗

Greetings Fellow Sceptics!

Went back to work today for the first time since we shut in March to prepare for our reopening next week. While it was great to see colleagues who I have only seen online for the best part of 3-4 months, today’s session in my eyes quickly degenerated into an example how people have been terrified by the relentless government and MSM propaganda.

Toby at the beginning of today’s updates has observed how its young people who have overestimated the risk of Covid, I can confirm that with my own experience with the exaggerated swerving around, zealous observation of antisocial distancing and one mentioning that she hasn’t hugged anyone even her parents since this madness began. I couldn’t believe it!

Many colleagues were excessively santising their hands and even seemingly afraid of touching the doors.

It’s terrifying that many were dismissive about people’s concerns about the NHS trace and test and I had to say that these are guidelines and not rules.

More than half our work now will include cleaning and this will include our staff areas which will make our work even slower and out break times shorter.

What I can predict is that we will go in the way of the shops where antisocial distancing, queuing and excessive sanitising will not attract people into our site.

49491 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #974 of 1305 🔗

You obviously have the common sense gene Bart!

49522 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, 7, #975 of 1305 🔗

Thank you. I grew up in a third world country in Asia known for its corruption and if you want to survive you need to develop a BS radar quickly and get the hell out. I managed to do both.

49511 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #976 of 1305 🔗

I’ve said I am not going back into the office if masks are mandatory, or if social distancing is enforced. I am working from home. I am very lucky to have the option.

49530 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 2, #977 of 1305 🔗

Unfortunately I don’t have that option. The only saving grace is we’re being given visors instead of muzzles for the areas we need them. Antisocial distancing in the staff areas and the OTT cleaning will be an issue and I have decided to make a stand by boycotting the staff areas and avoiding using anything communal. I can eat my meals standing up and have no issues doing this while this insanity is raging.

49553 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #978 of 1305 🔗

Visor cleaning procedure will soon lapse. That is where the light will begin to dawn.

49568 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, #979 of 1305 🔗

Won’t be surprised if that happens too. Or being simply worn halfway, I’ve seen staff in certain shops do that.

49594 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #980 of 1305 🔗

Its all good. Half arsed mask wearing will become whats the point in no time.

49551 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #981 of 1305 🔗

Perhaps some of the younger ones don’t have the experience to feel confident about things, surely within a week or two they won’t be able to sustain their excessive ways – human nature is lazy in it’s heart. One less hand sanitization, one little swerve less. This will right itself yet. Fear is very draining especially when it becomes clear no covid is knocking about.

I know I missed the point about healthy young peoole being terrified and acting abnormally. Thats for another conment.

49559 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #982 of 1305 🔗

That’s the hope. I did notice colleagues looking at me when I refused to use the sanitiser, using my hands to hold open the doors for them and made a point to use the toilet to wash my hands.

I feel like a lonely voice at the moment but hopefully the tide will turn as what we’re learning in training becomes unworkable and impractical in reality.

49591 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #983 of 1305 🔗

Folk are lazy! Bank on it!

49518 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 20, #984 of 1305 🔗

‘There will be no return to the “old normal for the foreseeable future”, the World Health Organization has warned, after a record rise in the number of new coronavirus infections across the globe. Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director general of the WHO, told a virtual media briefing on Tuesday that the pandemic is going to “get worse and worse and worse” unless the basics of infection control are followed.’

For fox sake. Won’t this psy-op campaign of fear-mongering propaganda ever stop? In a way, I don’t blame people who are too scared to go outside, I’m not surprised when this psychological warfare is being wrought on the world’s citizens.

I’m also a bit confused at the message – what exactly are the ‘basics of infection control’? The word ‘basics’ suggests very unintrusive and simple measures, such as handwashing, quarantining the sick (as opposed to entire populations of healthy people), and possibly sanitising high-contact ares, such as public transport. Measures that are left to the common sense risk assessment of the individual and are relatively inexpensive to implement. These sound a lot like mitigation measures such as the ones pursued in Sweden. So, is a full lockdown really a ‘basic’ of infection control? Or is it a needlessly complicated and destructive measure that doesn’t actually have any benefit which outweighs its enormous cost? The WHO has been a laughing stock throughout this farce anyway, so anything they say can be taken with a cellar of salt.

As for mandatory masks, I refuse to wear one. Instead, I have a large flowing colourful scarf which I will wear so I can still breathe out of the bottom and it also looks more interesting than one of those depressing pale blue face nappies. Being individual and having my own personal style has always been very important to me which is one of the reasons I am so opposed to masks, but I also don’t want to get fined or tutted at/abused by irrational members of the public for going barefaced. Sometimes it’s just easier to avoid the hassle but I want to retain my personal identity in some other way.

I also refuse to incur extra expense in being forced to buy masks I don’t want and which I will only use once and then dispose of. If masks are going to be mandatory, the government should hand them out for free at shop entrances or perhaps a 5p charge like a plastic bag. Ironic, seeing as these horrible things are already littering the environment everywhere and I see the plastic-free brigade is very quiet about that…! Another reason why I refuse to wear disposable masks as I have always tried to cut down on my plastic use in all areas of life and making them mandatory will just clutter the environment with more rubbish. However, I will probably end up avoiding shops as much as possible if these face coverings become mandatory, which is a pity as I like high street shopping and hate shopping online, plus there is little else to do outside right now other than go for endless walks/runs/cycles or go to the shops…!

Trying desperately to remain optimistic (which is easier than it has been as I am now living with my relentlessly optimistic bf who sees the good in everyone and everything) and tell myself that I still hopefully have a whole lifetime left on this rock to watch these bastards fall.

49531 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Poppy, 6, #985 of 1305 🔗

‘Basics of infection control’ will probably include mandatory vaccinations and a cashless society and much else. Whatever got decided at Davos..
They keep changing the goalposts, so that they can string this out for however long it takes for people to give up challenging them, it would seem..

49534 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Poppy, 10, #986 of 1305 🔗

“Even though large tracts of Europe and many old and famous States have fallen … we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. … we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength … we shall defend our freedoms, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight in the shopping centres, we shall fight in the supermarkets and in the high streets, we shall fight on public transport; we shall never surrender!”

49555 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Poppy, 1, #987 of 1305 🔗

I don’t think anyone pays much attention to Dr Ted except when it suits them.

Hopefully lockdowns won’t come back as I think governments are starting to realise, a few hundreds of billions of pounds and tens of thousands of lives after it should have been obvious, that they aren’t such a great idea.

If we could drop _all_ the other crap in return for wearing half-arsed face coverings that might be a reasonable trade. I think that’s sort of the collective goal of maskism. Everybody really wants a way out and masks seem to be a step on that road.

49613 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to guy153, 1, #988 of 1305 🔗

Once we submit to masks we will never get rid of them. If they are going to be compulsory till we have a vaccine, then the vaccine will also have to be compulsory…

49556 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Poppy, 4, #989 of 1305 🔗

Tedros definitely gets first prize for boosting global morale.

The record rise in cases, or rather “infections”, seems to coincide awfully well with a record rise in testing…

49536 matt, replying to matt, 2, #990 of 1305 🔗

Sorry – just spotted this

In the “ Young People Over-Estimate Covid Risk” post, Toby posts a table of numbers of deaths under 40 per country. There are a few outliers, but most countries show a proportion of close to or significantly less than .5%. France and Canada are a bit higher.

But Ireland and the UK really stand out, with Ireland at 1.7% of the death toll and UK at 1.2%. The UK is the only country on that table with deaths under 40 in triple figures.

Something here is just wrong. The virus doesn’t change as it crosses a border. It doesn’t just decide to be worse for younger people in the UK. That 133 number is just not credible in the context of the others.

49540 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to matt, 1, #991 of 1305 🔗

Most likely to do with our massive over reporting of anyone having the disease when they died being classed as having died from it, or other countries significantly under testing and reporting, however I suspect the former is most likely.

49546 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, 2, #992 of 1305 🔗

This jumped out at me too. Could be over-reporting as below, or the fact that our NHS heroes told us not to attend hospital until we’d more or less stopped breathing.

49539 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #993 of 1305 🔗

I’m always a bit wary of articles that begin with “revealed” but it’s a glimpse at the possible scale of self inflicted destruction.
Revealed: The true scale of London’s economic meltdown as capital faces crisis not seen for generations
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-economic-meltdown-revealed-investigation-a4496441.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

Central London is facing the biggest economic crisis in generations with tens of thousands of jobs and hundreds of businesses at risk of being wiped out in Britain’s most vibrant economic powerhouse.

  • 50,000 West End jobs at risk
  • 88% of people are uncomfortable using public transport
  • 96% drop in foreign bookings to the UK for July
  • 11 London branches of Pret shut down
  • Just 7,000 out of 120,000 back at work in Canary Wharf
49541 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #994 of 1305 🔗

So masks haven’t made people feel “safe” on public transport then.

49580 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to A. Contrarian, #995 of 1305 🔗

Good point

49560 ▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, #996 of 1305 🔗

I’d caution against giving too much weight to the last point. There are very few companies operating in Canary Wharf who need their employees to be in the office and the advice is still “work from home if you can”. Most companies I talk to are saying they don’t expect to really reopen their offices properly before September at the absolute earliest – and often they’re talking about next year. Also, most buildings in CW are over 15 stories and the idea of filling a high-rise office block with social distancing measures in place is ridiculous. This doesn’t mean that most/many of these employees are out of work. The City will be similar – and that accounts for the Pret number. If nobody is going into the office, nobody is buying sandwiches in Pretending.

Oh, and, I’m uncomfortable using public transport. I’m uncomfortable because they want me to wear a mask if I do.

Not saying it’s not a disaster – it is – just saying that those numbers don’t do a particularly good job of explaining why it is.

49573 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to matt, 2, #997 of 1305 🔗

How do we get it across to them that it is the wearing of masks that is putting people off public transport and going to the shops – will they ever listen?

49619 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nel, 1, #998 of 1305 🔗

Looking at the comments on some of the articles posted here and the replies to the Mason Mills Twitter post, I think the message is fairly clear. I doubt they can ignore it forever.

49661 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 1, #999 of 1305 🔗

Pleased to see Mason is getting flak. I’m wondering if people will start stockpiling again from tomorrow?

49578 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 1, #1000 of 1305 🔗

I was actually more concerned about not getting my crayfish and rocket sandwiches from Pret but then I don’t work in London anymore so it’s not such a big deal.

The outlook is pretty grim though. I’m particularly concerned for Scotland as we’re set to become New Zealand mk II and we’re almost as reliant on tourism as they are.

49602 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1001 of 1305 🔗

Blame firmly on Sturgeon then for her mask fiasco. Can’t see any freedom loving citizen going to Scotland right now, it must feel like East Germany was.

49625 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1002 of 1305 🔗

Scotland is grim. I think Sturgeon is deliberately trying to destroy the economy so she can blame Westminster and to her surprise, she’s discovered that people love her for doing it. I don’t envy you.

49547 Profound Chap, replying to Profound Chap, #1003 of 1305 🔗

Reading the FT just now, the stats on the US southern stats look like a second wave. Infections relative to testing, hospitalisations and deaths all on a confined uptrend.
Anything out there to make sense of this? e.g, no such effect in italy.
p.s. I am not a bedwetter, and evidence rules for me.

49782 ▶▶ alison, replying to Profound Chap, 1, #1004 of 1305 🔗

I’m not the best on the stats, but from what I can see from position of no expertise at allthe southern states, in common with several other places e.g Iraq, which are seeing a rise in cases after a lockdown, never really had a first wave. They suppressed with an early lockdown and now (tragically and predictably) are finding that the lockdown was pretty useless, and are now dealing with what in effect looks like a first wave.

49792 ▶▶▶ Profound Chap, replying to alison, #1005 of 1305 🔗

Thank you, that makes alot of sense. Good evening.

49557 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1006 of 1305 🔗

That’s it then:

Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director general of the WHO:

“I want to be straight with you: there will be no return to the ‘old normal’ for the foreseeable future… we all hope there will be an effective vaccine, but we need to focus on using the tools we have now to suppress transmission and save lives,” he said.

However, later in the article (my emphasis):

The United States, Brazil, India and South Africa reported the largest rises in cases, according to the WHO’s daily situation report. Dr Tedros added that 80 per cent of new cases were in just 10 countries, and 50 per cent in two.

However the number of deaths are staying relatively steady , with around 5,000 reported each day. Globally, more than 570,000 fatalities have now been reported, while the landmark of 13 million infections is expected to be hit within the next 24 hours.

Full article here (paywall):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/dr-tedros-warns-pandemic-will-get-worse-worse-new-cases-reach/

49566 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1007 of 1305 🔗

For anyone wanting to recap who WHO are here is a short video outlining a little history of Tedros. Tedros is not a doctor of medcine.
Fauci is also covered, tedros is looked at first. Most already know this anyway I suspect.

https://youtu.be/9uWriZEC8BQ

49582 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1008 of 1305 🔗

I’ve always considered the WHO as one of these organisations that needs to make things seem worse than they are simply to justify their existence.

49564 Steve, #1009 of 1305 🔗

Boris & this shower of sxxx of government are bed wetters. The way things are going you will be forced to wear a mask in the privacy of your own home..

49572 assoc, replying to assoc, #1010 of 1305 🔗

Let us hope (pray) that Lidls don’t enforce muzzling. It’s not Waitrose but the wine section isn’t bad and they do a very nice mature Long Clawon Stilton

49574 ▶▶ assoc, replying to assoc, 1, #1011 of 1305 🔗

Gather ye rosebuds while ye may

49586 ▶▶ Basics, replying to assoc, 1, #1012 of 1305 🔗

The lidl coverage in Scotland made it clear all shops should not enforce the mask statute. It’s only for police to ‘enforce’. The police cannot enforce this at all. Search lidl mask enforcement Scottland masks or similar.

49597 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to assoc, 2, #1013 of 1305 🔗

I fecking love Lidl (mate, get their version of Jaffa Cakes – SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE ORIGINAL, dark chocolate omnomnomNOM and don’t get me started on the *CHEESE*)

Now I will be loyal to them until I die. Probably because they’ll be the only shop I’m welcome in.

49636 ▶▶ Bella, replying to assoc, #1014 of 1305 🔗

They will now.

49577 Yawnyaman, 2, #1015 of 1305 🔗

Interesting discussion on herd immunity. Existing T cell resistance doubtless explains why the transmission or ‘R’ rate never goes much above about 1.3 or so ( as measured by Covid deaths) in countries where lockdown is either applied with reluctance (Brazil) chaotically if at all (Pakistan) or probably in a manner that was likely to be self defeating (India). If we have say two thirds of the population unable to really get ill with the virus and transmitting it at a rate well below 1; and say one third transmitting it at the Ferguson rate of 3 to 4; then that is the rate you will get. It also means that herd immunity will develope once perhaps 8 to 10 per cent acquire antibodies.

49581 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1016 of 1305 🔗

It’s actually getting boring the globalist clamour for fear. Here’s an article about air pollution causing causing covid to be worse. The evidence is ‘compelling’. I could not be less interested. Not because I don’t care but because this now feels as though the feedback loop has told global interests now is the time to go all out with every outlandish claim you like. The people of the planet cannot challenge anything we do now.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/13/compelling-evidence-air-pollution-worsens-coronavirus-study

49588 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, #1017 of 1305 🔗

So why is Greece’s Covid death rate so low when air population in its major city Athens is so bad?

49583 Nessimmersion, 9, #1018 of 1305 🔗

BBC 10 o clock news, thay are frotting themselves into orgasm at the thought of the English population being forced to wear masks in shops.
Deliberately lying on camera to support govt agenda, saying their is some evidence home made masks help.
Absolute bollocks as the report below show:
https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The-Science-is-Conclusive-Masks-and-Respirators-do-NOT-Prevent-Transmission-of-Viruses

49595 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 6, #1019 of 1305 🔗

So just got the hotly anticipated notification from the one and only BBC news telling us all that face coverings are compulsory in shops from 24 July ….obviously because the virus will stay away until that date, after that it will increase exponentially and we will all die if not. It really just gets more depressing by the day.

49608 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #1020 of 1305 🔗

So has Boris/the government announced it then, or are the BBC deciding policy now?

49679 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Carrie, 1, #1021 of 1305 🔗

The BBC wouldn’t get this wrong.

49689 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, 1, #1022 of 1305 🔗

Well, the BBC is the mouthpiece of the government.

49596 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 24, #1023 of 1305 🔗

I’m feeling pretty down tonight. I’m so tired of trying to stand my ground against the tide of idiocy. I’m sick of losing friends because I can’t just zip it and let them spout complete bollox about how dangerous “the virus” is and how “it’s still out there you know”. It’s bad enough to be considered heartless but now we must wear face masks in shops or face a £100 fine so I have the choice between becoming a criminal, getting abused by shop workers and the public, giving in or staying home. I am close to tears and this is not me. In fact even writing a post like this is not me.

49610 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 6, #1024 of 1305 🔗

The aggro is strong in me too. I’m doing all my shopping online. I will spend time searching out everything I need, online. This is the point where we swim with the world, becoming like them, or else stand up for truth and risk being vilified, spat at, fined. They did it to a man called Jesus, too.

49650 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1025 of 1305 🔗

Felt the same for a while. People around me think it’s getting back to normal. For me it’s getting worse. I’m not extrovert enough to draw attention to myself by refusing the mask. So I have the same dilemmas as you.

49676 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1026 of 1305 🔗

Much respect AWD for an honest appraisal. No easy choices now.

49687 ▶▶ John P, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1027 of 1305 🔗

I would suggest just letting it sink in for a few hours or days and then plan what you are going to do to avoid the need to visit the shops.

49701 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to John P, 1, #1028 of 1305 🔗

I think we should at least try to stand our ground a visit shops without masks. Surely any one of us can claim being forced to wear a mask causes us severe distress we don’t need to actually lie – I dont know if there will still be this exemption. Today we face a £100 fine, we continue to comply and eventually they will be killing us for non compliance. Where do we draw the line and just say enough is enough?

49756 ▶▶ alison, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1029 of 1305 🔗

I know the feeling. But there are so many people feeling the same way. If this madness ends soon, marvellous. If it doesn’t, then those of us who think it is nonsense will find better and better ways to support each other and stand together against it.

49598 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1030 of 1305 🔗

BBC News – Coronavirus: Pub landlord installs electric fence around bar
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-53389977

I have no words.

49601 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #1031 of 1305 🔗

This has got to be a pisstake.

Hasn’t it?

49622 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1032 of 1305 🔗

it wasn’t switched on-but it generated a lot of publicity!

49659 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #1033 of 1305 🔗

I’m guessing the fence will soon be removed. If nothing else, it’s an offensive weapon, and bloody dangerous. A formal complaint should be made to the police.

49603 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 9, #1034 of 1305 🔗

If the Johnson Government go ahead with the Mask Madness then they really are parting company with the people.

49623 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 4, #1035 of 1305 🔗

Who are sensible people supposed to vote for now? The choice seems to be between Mad Marxists and Lunatic Lib Dems if you don’t want a Miserable Maskist Johnson Government. I felt we were going this way. I am more convinced that ever we need a broad-based Free Citizens Party.

49706 ▶▶▶ assoc, replying to OKUK, #1036 of 1305 🔗

If he’s that scared of people why is he running a pub?

49605 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1037 of 1305 🔗

It’s all over, folks:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/13/shoppers-without-face-masks-risk-100-fine-government-moves-make/

And just confirmed by the BBC – from 24th July muzzles will be compulsory.

49607 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1038 of 1305 🔗

I guess the police systems will be crashing with all of us out there not wearing masks….right folks??

49611 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1039 of 1305 🔗

F**k the shops don’t use them get everything online and see how long they last

49614 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #1040 of 1305 🔗

My intentions also.

49672 ▶▶▶ helenf, replying to tonyspurs, #1041 of 1305 🔗

Maybe that’s what they want. Amazon, Tesco etc must be over the moon.

49690 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1042 of 1305 🔗

Perhaps we try and ignore the law first – being forced to wear a mask causes me severe distress and presumably any other lockdown sceptic too. We need to start to rebel. What is a £100 fine its not like we are facing being lined up and shot at least not yet – now is the time to rebel and simply refuse to follow these so called laws.

49740 ▶▶▶▶ alison, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #1043 of 1305 🔗

Since they became obligatory in Scotland, although on the downside nearly everyone is wearing them, on upside, myself and several family members have been going to shops without them as usual and have had no hassle at all from staff or anyone else. Also, police haven’t handed out a single fine yet apparently in whole of Scotland.

Seeing so many other people wearing them is pretty horrible especially as most people weren’t bothering before. But am thinking I am not going to be driven out of the shops or anywhere else. And I’m certainly not wearing a mask. Shop staff don’t want to be enforcing this nonsense, I suspect ignoring the whole thing will be workable most of the time.

49854 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Saved To Death, #1044 of 1305 🔗

Quite a lot for me unfortunately, can’t really afford to pay that or to lose my job if they’re made compulsory at work. Which of course is what they’re relying on. I’ll state that they cause me panic attacks and anxiety (true, don’t react well to low oxygen levels and get claustrophobia), but I don’t know if that will be sufficient.

49883 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Steve, #1045 of 1305 🔗

Unfortunately our compliance is going to cost us a hell of a lot more in the long run.

49616 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, 6, #1046 of 1305 🔗

And I’m leaving the country as soon as humanly possible. My main criteria: no mask insanity.

I feel like it’s probably a pretty good arbiter of the sensibleness of both a people and its government.

49685 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Farinances, 4, #1047 of 1305 🔗

I recommend the Czech Republic. They’ve seen this shit before and will not be going back to it in a hurry.

49721 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to TheBluePill, #1048 of 1305 🔗

Or maybe Poland?

49784 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #1049 of 1305 🔗

Yes look to the East. Those populations know a thing or two about this.

49620 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1050 of 1305 🔗

this will go one of two ways; footfall will dramatically decrease or it will give enough cover for shoplifters. A lose/lose situation for shops

49630 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1051 of 1305 🔗

Hopefully they will notice tout suite and kick the fuck off. in the meantime we can all go shop in tiny shops where noone cares

49787 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to crimsonpirate, #1052 of 1305 🔗

Shop lifting is up near here. Masks.

49631 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Tenchy, 11, #1053 of 1305 🔗

I am terrified about the prospect of wearing a mask and, equally, seeing others wearing a mask terrifies me; genuinely and for so many reasons. I consider myself medically exempt from wearing one (mental illness and trauma). Masks have always terrified me, always, I am having frequent nightmares about all of this now. The physical health implications have been frequently discussed – they are dangerous etc. It is not just this, I believe that submitting to wearing one will lead us down a very, very dark road.

49633 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Kath Andrews, 3, #1054 of 1305 🔗

I agree, I find it very disturbing. I shall avoid shops from that day onwards.

49645 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1055 of 1305 🔗

So the virus knows to temporarily not spread till then???

49612 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 9, #1056 of 1305 🔗

Just seen the announcement on mandatory masks from 24th July. Took a glance at BBC Breaking News on Twitter confirming it, you’d have thought Boris has just announced a £5K bonus for every man, woman and child.

They Government have succeeded in creating their Covid Cult. We have an enormous fight on our hands.

49626 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Scotty87, 1, #1057 of 1305 🔗

Bordering on satanic.

49654 ▶▶ matt, replying to Scotty87, 1, #1058 of 1305 🔗

Fuck it. I think I give up.

49655 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 3, #1059 of 1305 🔗

Don’t give up. Just take some time out if you need to.

49688 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 2, #1060 of 1305 🔗

It’s not possible to take time out though, is it? It’s not like one little pocket of the world has been turned insane and you’re free to go somewhere else. Absolutely nothing is as it should be and there is absolutely nowhere you can go to get away from it.

49700 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 2, #1061 of 1305 🔗

It is , and you still have free will, matt.

The countryside is free of it: the sheep and cattle aren’t muzzled. (Never see any pigs.) Rarely see other people, but never masked out there.

It’s not here in my house either – unless I switch on the internet.

You can’t escape it entirely, but you can get away from it to some extent.

49748 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 1, #1062 of 1305 🔗

It’s all very well, but when you work full time and the other adult in the house works full time and at the same time you have two small children who can’t simply be allowed to run feral while they’re not at school and you live in central London, there’s limited opportunity to go and look at the cows and the sheep.

49615 assoc, replying to assoc, 9, #1063 of 1305 🔗

Masks in shops.
I can spend three hours in the pub, without a mask, in close proximity to my friends, as I did last night, but I can’t legally buy a newspaper in a shop. It’s high time that either the Queen and/or the Association of chief constables got involved to try stop this stupidity

49617 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to assoc, 3, #1064 of 1305 🔗

Why shops only? Why not EEEEEVVVVEEERRRRYYYWWWHHHEEEERRRREEEE?

Better stop giving them ideas huh.

49680 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Farinances, #1065 of 1305 🔗

No need to give them ideas, these are the next steps including in your house.

49681 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Saved To Death, #1066 of 1305 🔗

That cannot be enforced.

49719 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, #1067 of 1305 🔗

Well, you’d like to think it couldn’t, but all bets are off now..

49882 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to John P, #1068 of 1305 🔗

If they can create a law to permit themselves to enter your home and take your children on the suspicion that they might be infected with a cold virus why imagine that they cannot create a law to permit them to enter your house for a mandatory mask check? These are tyrants they are capable of anything. Not wearing a mask in your home could be construed then as a good reason to assume you have a virus – “As you are so lax with your infection control we will have to take your children for testing to be safe”.

49627 ▶▶ John P, replying to assoc, #1069 of 1305 🔗

Unfortunately neither the Queen nor the Association of chief constables have the authority to overrule the Prime Minister.

49624 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #1070 of 1305 🔗

I have been working in a school around the children of essential workers ever since nonsense kicked off. No mask required, here we are 16 weeks? Later and I need to wear a mask to choose my own fresh veg. Furious.

49641 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1071 of 1305 🔗

Time to start growing fruit and veg and set up small cooperatives …

49628 Bella, replying to Bella, 5, #1072 of 1305 🔗

Masks were always coming because this is a coup. It’s not political in a sense of ‘winning votes’, it’s political in that it’s about crushing our spirit, it always was. Unless we stand up now then there will never be any opposition to this tyranny. And, no they don’t care about the retail industry, the more they can throw scraps to the unemployed the more the docile won’t rise up. It was always going to be thus. So where are the people who were throwing mud pies at the conspiracy theorists now? It was always the agenda.

49640 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, 2, #1073 of 1305 🔗

The Canadian article on this Twitter thread is good – we should give it to everyone who has not taken this seriously until now: https://twitter.com/WillowWyse/status/1282774456230871040

49684 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Carrie, #1074 of 1305 🔗

Bloody worrying. He could be right.

49656 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bella, 2, #1075 of 1305 🔗

People need to watch a few editions of UK Column news, they would soon see people who are awake have seen this coming.

49730 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, #1076 of 1305 🔗

Bella. There’s a lot of good folk here who have their finger on the pulse and know a good deal about things I know little about. You have often said things I completely agree with. And I do again now. Just looking at this as a natural, organic series of events does not ring true to me. Chance does not operate in such a directional way in my estimation. Every step and bump and moment we come to is yet more along the road to a serverely controlled and limited freedom future. Can anyone imagine people actually thinking the governments of britain don’t realise the c19 is terrifically weak as plagues go? Does a government truly put its population in face coverings just to hide from the provably obvious? I know many here don’t see a coup may be taking place and its great they don’t. To have sceptical conversation really encourages critical scrutiny. So far I personally find in favour towards your thinking. That there is a scheme at work that is causing the reduction of our customs and traditions. A fundamental and foundational scheme. Truly what do we know of the cabinate office – how does cummings soend his long days? Which think tanks have the chancellors ear? We know truly nothing about the machinations within our Government. We don’t even know the manner in which the cabinate fits together. What we do know is tobias Elwood was madeca member of the privy council in a matter of days after his heroic deed. We know that the givernment are stupendously weak on matters science. We know that we are all going to suffer for their decisions. There is nothing about any of this that is going to improce our lot. Quite the contrary.

I think you have a point Bella! Sorry about the ranty bit – think its understandable all things considered!

49835 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1077 of 1305 🔗

We know Tobias Elwood is definitely dodgy..

49845 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #1078 of 1305 🔗

Bloody ell. You read my rant! Well done you! You coukd smell the dodginess from the highly strange hero moment. Then the quick fix privy council reward… somebody or something needed tobias positioned. Imo.

49634 matt, replying to matt, 2, #1079 of 1305 🔗

Just had an evening standard headline flash up on my iPad that face masks will be compulsory in shops from 24th July. Can’t find the article on the Standard site. Still looking.

49648 ▶▶ Hester, replying to matt, 3, #1080 of 1305 🔗

its on the telegraph website the coward didn’t even anounce it himself he sent out that wet rag Hancock

49652 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hester, 2, #1081 of 1305 🔗

dictator Hancock don’t you mean..

49635 Hester, #1082 of 1305 🔗

H

49638 helenf, 1, #1083 of 1305 🔗

Disturbing piece in the Guardian about the increase in child suicides during lockdown.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jul/13/deaths-special-needs-children-kent-raise-concerns-over-school-closures

‘Hammond and other experts are turning their attention to the return to school in September. “We are absolutely desperate for children and young people not to become the forgotten victims of this terrible virus,” she said.’

Of course, it’s the so-called virus’s fault, oh and having a diagnosis like ASD or ADHD, not the government who decided that children (who aren’t susceptible or known to pass it on to others) should be locked down and isolated along with their parents, and removed from all other social supports and protective structures. Remember the increase in domestic violence and child abuse that was being reported at the beginning of lockdown? Chickens coming home to roost. So sad and completely preventable.

49642 Hester, replying to Hester, 16, #1084 of 1305 🔗

He has just made masks mandatory with a muted fine of 100.00 A British Primeminister supported by his cabinet has said to us you will dress and appear as I dictate if you do not you will be denied access to purchase food and basic necessities for life and if you try to enter a shop not dressed and covered in the way I have dictated you will be punished. Is ther nothing no push back that can be organised? Black Live matter organised why is there no mass protest against this authoritarian regime

49649 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hester, 6, #1085 of 1305 🔗

Trying to starve people into submission. I am LIVID!

49677 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Hester, 6, #1086 of 1305 🔗

In the unlikely event of a police officer querying my exemption I’ll take a £50 fine (if paid within 14 days) thank you very much. Fuck Boris. Fuck the government. Fuck the establishment. And fuck Bill Gates.

49686 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #1087 of 1305 🔗

Was told to tick the box on the fine that says go to court. You are allowed a day in court. Apparently the courts are so busy they’ll never get round to your lack of cheese cloth criminal act and so you get away without paying.

Its what I was told. I have zero experience.

49643 thedarkhorse, 3, #1088 of 1305 🔗

Many petrol stations sell both fuel and food, i.e a supermarket attached. How ya going to pay for petrol if the paydesk is inside a supermarket?

49644 John P, replying to John P, 27, #1089 of 1305 🔗

I think we can all unanimously agree now that Boris Johnson is the most gigantic cretin ever to be allowed to sqat in ten downing street.

49646 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 5, #1090 of 1305 🔗

YES!

49668 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 11, #1091 of 1305 🔗

Cretin? Perhaps – but in the same sense as all lying and narcissistic/psychopathic power-grabbers – also very, very dangerous if they aren’t stopped in their tracks by proper opposition.

Remember – all this ordure being poured upon the populace is by decree – not proper parliamentary scrutiny and legislative process. This is not currently a democracy in any recognisable form.

49678 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to RickH, 2, #1092 of 1305 🔗

Yes, this is true. But for the purposes of this posting, “cretin” will do.

Or you could try clown, idiot, imbecile, fool, moron, simpleton, jackass, fuckwitt, corpulent pig, whatever …

I wasn’t trying to make a complex political point, just getting it off my chest.

49881 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, #1093 of 1305 🔗

Making Teresa May look like the dogs b*llocks now!

49647 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, #1094 of 1305 🔗

Some great comments in this latest DT article (comments not behind paywall):

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/13/shoppers-without-face-masks-risk-100-fine-government-moves-make/

49651 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1095 of 1305 🔗

Lol! My comment is currently top! Sorry to brag – it doesn’t happen often!

49664 ▶▶▶ Edward Giles, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #1096 of 1305 🔗

Just resigned from Conservative party after 46 years membership. In my time I’ve been a constituency chairman and a Conservative councillor. Have e-mailed my MP to say I shall never vote for him again.

49770 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Edward Giles, 2, #1097 of 1305 🔗

I, doing it tomorrow. Joined in in 1983 aged 19. Been a branch sec and councillor. I will never vote conservative again and nor will my husband. Huntil there is a liberation alternative I will spoil the ballot.

49673 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1098 of 1305 🔗

This is a worrying quote from the article, plus a comment: ‘ ” Government sources said that ministers would monitor the situations and could introduce similar guidance for other settings in future. ”
Well if they are going to be logical it should be everywhere outside in public.’

Funnily enough just what Mason Mills tweeted, everywhere outside…

49657 chrissie, replying to chrissie, 1, #1099 of 1305 🔗

In a new Interview, one of the main German lockdown-opponents Microbiologist+Infectiologist Prof. Bhakdi says 80-90% of all people have immunity from old Coronavirus infections. Meaning herdimmunity has lomg been reached, no antibodies needed. New Scientific papers published in June prove it. Therfore no vaccine needed.
Sorry, the interview is in German: https://radiomuenchen.net/podcast-archiv/radiomuenchen-themen/2013-04-04-17-32-41/1852-impfentwicklung-bei-80-90-immunitaet-der-infizierten-ist-unsinn.html

49768 ▶▶ matt, replying to chrissie, #1100 of 1305 🔗

It’s a good interview, yes.

49660 nfw, 2, #1101 of 1305 🔗

Will Oxford let offer holders defer their place to 2021 if they don’t wish to start in October 2020?

Don’t be silly. As Sir Humphrey said, it’s not about the students. It’s about money.

49662 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #1102 of 1305 🔗

Why now?

The question to get into the ears of every person in England. This annoucement will wake up a good number. Not everyone of course. But why now? Is a fine harmless question to sow a seed. Followed by where do you think it will end?

49665 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #1103 of 1305 🔗

Good thinking… get people watching the falling death stats and ask also how long they think masks will be around for…

49777 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Carrie, 1, #1104 of 1305 🔗

How long before we see an announcement that a multinational is set to offer xxx jobs in its new face mask factory, to be built in the north of England to provide valuable employment.

49663 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 9, #1105 of 1305 🔗

Just been going through the COVID-19 ONS death figures for March, April, & May in England & Wales.

There has only been 4,243 COVID-19 deaths where the person had no underlying illness or pre-existing condition. 2,342 of these deaths were over 80, so this means only 1,901 deaths in people under 80 in England & Wales

Country Sex Age Main pre-existing condition Number of deaths
England and Wales Persons 0-44 No pre-existing condition 98
England and Wales Persons 45-49 No pre-existing condition 89
England and Wales Persons 50-54 No pre-existing condition 117
England and Wales Persons 55-59 No pre-existing condition 210
England and Wales Persons 60-64 No pre-existing condition 222
England and Wales Persons 65-69 No pre-existing condition 279
England and Wales Persons 70-74 No pre-existing condition 390
England and Wales Persons 75-79 No pre-existing condition 496
England and Wales Persons 80-84 No pre-existing condition 672
England and Wales Persons 85-89 No pre-existing condition 761
England and Wales Persons 90+ No pre-existing condition 909
Total 4,243

So we have locked down the country and destroyed the economy for 4,000 deaths, and continue to persist with this farce.

When you consider that the lockdown has caused nearly 20,000 excess non-COVID19 deaths, this does not make any sense whatsoever. What on earth are we doing?

49667 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 2, #1106 of 1305 🔗

These are also stats that we should be posting and quoting at every possible opportunity…

49669 ▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, 6, #1107 of 1305 🔗

“we” are not doing anything, skipper.

The “doing” is being done by those unspeakable clowns in “government”.

This shitshow really has disabused me completely of any regard of any kind for members of parliament. They really are idiots.

49682 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 4, #1108 of 1305 🔗

This is so obvious to see, yet there is no dissenting voices by any Members of Parliament. it shows that Investigative Journalism is dead, and that the MSM is complicit in this whole thing.

49710 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to JohnB, #1110 of 1305 🔗

And to put it into context, I think 4,000 (sounds like a lot, right) is less than 3 days’ worth of deaths in England/Wales – there are about 1,500 deaths per day in the normal course of events.

49724 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #1111 of 1305 🔗

Also, when they say no pre-existing condition, there possibly could be but there is no autopsies being done since the Coronavirus Bill was introduced, so it’s a fair assumption that there will be a considerable amount of pre-existing conditions in these deaths but they will never be known.

49774 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 1, #1112 of 1305 🔗

That’s *why* they have not been doing autopsies..

49666 nfw, replying to nfw, #1113 of 1305 🔗

Why is it when one goes to correct a spelling mistake using the suggested correction the whole piece is deleted?

49805 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nfw, #1114 of 1305 🔗

Computers, eh ? What can you do ?

49670 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #1115 of 1305 🔗

Does anyone know if there is any way we can opt out of mask wearing from 24 July? There are fines, so what are our possible “excuses”?

My daughter is partially deaf so could that be a reason? I can say she needs to see my lips for communication?

What about when I’m on my own? Anxiety?

If we really have to, I’m going to make one so loose that it slips down and becomes a scarf. And this really has made me withdraw from shopping now.

Pleased to to hear any ideas about reasons not to wear 🙂

49675 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Country Mumkin, #1116 of 1305 🔗

Lip reading is valid out. The scottish lrgislation gives a good many ways out. In practice i think its tge feeling from others that you may consider.. the actual breaking of the lawrulewhatever is unlikely to mean a fine. Police and courts are much to busy to be chasing after every bareface in the country.

49695 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Basics, #1117 of 1305 🔗

Thanks Basics. Do you have a link to the Scottish get outs? I will try to find some that apply.

I also want to sort of blend in whilst opting out (hence loose mask that will slip down and become scarf). I also want to explain to my daughter day by day what tho so farce is about!

49775 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BTLnewbie, #1119 of 1305 🔗

Thanks btlnewbie

49712 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Country Mumkin, #1120 of 1305 🔗

Transport for London has an exceptions page. You can also down load an ‘exempt’ badge.

49674 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1121 of 1305 🔗

How about this ominous statement in the DT:

Government sources said that ministers would monitor the situations and could introduce similar guidance [compulsion] for other settings in future.

(sorry – already posted below by Carrie)

49720 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to Tenchy, #1122 of 1305 🔗

I think at this juncture our best hope is that Queenie takes back power and slams them all in The Tower.

49771 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Invunche, #1123 of 1305 🔗

Not seen her for ages – is Boris still having weekly meetings of some kind with her? Does she do Zoom?!

49683 RickH, 10, #1124 of 1305 🔗

1945 : the Third Reich defeated

2020 : Mr Toad imports totalitarianism into the UK

‘Nuff said.

Now let’s concentrate of f.ing up the Brown Shirt’s plan by ever means possible.

49692 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 21, #1125 of 1305 🔗

Sorry to spam but I’m absolutely incensed to the point where I think sleep is going to be a pipe dream tonight. The man is MENTALLY UNFIT for the office of Prime Minister.

Whether you believe Boris nearly died from the virus or not, it’s clear we are dealing with somebody who is suffering an absolute crisis of leadership; a rudderless, catastrophic government headed by a schizophrenic waste of skin.

He gets worse every time I hear him. He’s created a dystopian fantasy in his own mind, a world ravaged by a killer virus which is a threat to us all. Except, he’s forcing all of us to live in this nightmare of his own making, and submit to its dehumanising ways.

I wonder how many Tory MPs will resign over this blatant despotism? I would guess none. Some may have reservations but like nearly all politicians, it’s easier to keep your snout in the trough than exhibit a modicum of integrity.

I can only hope that this is a moment where a light switches on in a few million heads. Time to light a fire under the arses of these bastards, civil unrest is increasingly looking like the only way forward.

49708 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Scotty87, 2, #1126 of 1305 🔗

There’s a rumour on Twitter that he’s being treated for alcoholism – but then Twitter is the biggest rumour market in the world

49737 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella, 1, #1127 of 1305 🔗

Many probably most politicians have been alcohol dependent including Wilson, Churchill and Thatcher so not unlikely. If they’ve out him on medication to subdue alcohol cravings that could explain the mental aberrations.

49742 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to OKUK, 1, #1128 of 1305 🔗

I’m quite sure I drink too much. And I’m also quite sure I could think circles ‘round that idiot. Whatever his problem is, it runs far deeper than alcoholism.

49769 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, #1129 of 1305 🔗

Was Thatcher an alcoholic???

49880 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella, #1130 of 1305 🔗

Aaah Twitter, the purveyor of truth.

49733 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Scotty87, 4, #1131 of 1305 🔗

I agree. He may well have full blown PTSD following his terrifying brush with death. He seems slightly deranged. The persona is still there but it’s like he doesn’t believe in it any more – so why should we?

49808 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, #1132 of 1305 🔗

I think his eyes in the first you are all goung into lockdown said a great deal. He looked shit scared as he spoke – really quite unusual up until that point. Post err, yeah lets play along, hospital he looks sickly and is lumbering on without soul.

49693 Liam, 17, #1133 of 1305 🔗

Bastard. Useless, bought and paid for, useless, pathetic, cowardly, gibbering little bastard. Fucq off Doris.

49696 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, #1134 of 1305 🔗

So who is actually leading The UK at the moment?

49699 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1135 of 1305 🔗

SAGE?

49767 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, #1136 of 1305 🔗

and the 77th brigade..

49711 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1137 of 1305 🔗

Bill Gates

49725 ▶▶ Athanasius, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1138 of 1305 🔗

The tabloids

49732 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1139 of 1305 🔗

Rich criminals, via the Intelligence Services.

49821 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Dave #KBF, #1140 of 1305 🔗

Trish Greenhalgh and the BLM movement.

49831 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Peter Thompson, #1141 of 1305 🔗

Who’s the Trish woman?

49697 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 8, #1142 of 1305 🔗

I’ve yet to work out my resistance strategy. Might just order stuff online rather than shop. If I go to a shop may wear it to get in but once inside wear it round neck. This is going to damage the UK economy so much, I won’t be lingering in any shop! Johnson is in the grip of a mania. His mother was bipolar so he may have a genetic predisposition. Time for some Cabinet resignations.

49709 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to OKUK, #1143 of 1305 🔗

ten days or so to see if any opposition in Parliament and also enough time to make a U turn-not the first time.

49716 ▶▶ matt, replying to OKUK, 7, #1144 of 1305 🔗

I’ve not been going to big supermarkets since March. Occasional (once every couple of weeks) trip to local M&S for non fresh stuff (store cupboard things, cereal, oven pizzas for the boys, that kind of thing). I’m going to do a shopping run tomorrow to the greengrocer and the butcher, tell them I will not be wearing a mask and gauge their reaction. If I can keep going to them, then great and I’ll get the stuff I’ve been getting from M&S through online shopping. If not, sod them – all online it is.

I made 21 trips abroad last year, to 13 different countries. How can it be true that my world has shrunk to 6 square miles and I’m worrying about whether my greengrocer will sell me apples?

49727 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 2, #1145 of 1305 🔗

Crazy world. My brother in law is a village butcher. I get meat from him. There’s a greengrocer nearby him that does boxes of veg. I’ll be having that delivered with my meat from now on.

Then there’s milk and bread to sort out and toiletries. Maybe hunt around for online stores. Maybe now time to bring back the milkman!

49765 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 1, #1146 of 1305 🔗

Think we should try to use smaller online shops as opposed to filling Amazon’s coffers…

49773 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, #1147 of 1305 🔗

Seriously think that is a good opportunity. Milkman. Tesla is basically a milk float anyway, everything comes around!

49763 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, #1148 of 1305 🔗

I went to the US last year, to see relatives on one coast, friends in the middle and my old childhood homes on the other coast. So glad I went then – by the looks of things all travel abroad is out for now..

49728 ▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, #1149 of 1305 🔗

I’ve yet to work out my resistance strategy.”

See mine (above) – but there’s lot’s of possibilities to make this assortment of Brown Shirt pricks look stupid, I reckon. Being made to look stupid is what use to bug Hitler the most.

I’m also ordering some highwayman masks to help take the piss.

Time to get creative – I’m sure there’s a lot of humorous satire just waiting to happen.

49760 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, #1150 of 1305 🔗

You can get masks of Boris on eBay – maybe use those with suitable slogans written across the forehead bit?

49780 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, #1151 of 1305 🔗

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=matt+hancock+mask&_sacat=0

Ima strap Handcock to my balaclava

Last night, I embroidered “FEEL SAFE YET?” on the back.

Looks like it was a good call

49799 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Farinances, #1152 of 1305 🔗

brilliant! i think wear the most outrageous masks!

49810 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sue, #1153 of 1305 🔗

How about this one, of Dominic Cummings? https://www.funkybunky.co.uk/Item/Dominic-Cummings-mask

49798 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #1155 of 1305 🔗

Please, he’s not our friend. Johnson.

49731 ▶▶ assoc, replying to OKUK, 1, #1156 of 1305 🔗

Would a false ID card be a good way to avoid a fine for “bare faced cheek”? Just wondered if anyone thinks that carrying a convincing looking card on a lanyard with real photo but fake name, workplace address… might let you convince anyone who stops you into billing the fine against someone who doesn’t really exist. A card to look like a staff access card to a premises or something else official looking, thankfully our country hasn’t yet been laboured with government issued ID cards so there aren’t those kind to be able to fake. Could help really snarl up the efforts of any zealots, having so many junk identities on file to fine. And if you ever get caught you get a new fake card, so that you can’t get charged higher for second “offence” fines, as they’ll think you’re someone else the second time your caught. Does anyone know if this is effective with the usual way police verify the names of people they want to hand out these fines to? I suppose the idea would have been very wise early in the lockdown too, when the local Nazis were going after park bench sitters.

49772 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to assoc, #1157 of 1305 🔗

My daughter then 15 used to have what claimed to be an Irish driving license (American spelling) showing her age as 19! Maybe we will be reduced to similar subterfuges.

49752 ▶▶ Kathryn, replying to OKUK, #1158 of 1305 🔗

I thought I’d pop into a fabric/sewing shop this morning whilst I was out having noticed it was open. Sign on the door said only 2 customers and face masks mandatory. Well I haven’t got one and have no intention of ever wearing one either, but I pushed open the door hoping the sight of a potential customer might call for some sanity.
A woman rushed out from the back of the shop., immediately demanding to know if I had a face mask. Incidentally she was not wearing one at all.
When I said no I hadn’t, she pointed to a box of disposable ones, saying ‘ we just ask for a 20 p donation’.
Needless to say I said no thank you, turned on my heel and left. If that’s how shops are hoping to stay in business god help us.

49698 Invunche, replying to Invunche, 6, #1159 of 1305 🔗

So this is such a deadly virus that I have to wear a mask to buy weetabix?

But yet it wasn’t virulent enough to hinder Boris, Cummings, Hancock or Whitty?

None of whom tbh look exactly like specimens such as Charlton Heston in the Omega Man.

49713 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Invunche, 1, #1160 of 1305 🔗

Please see my post from earlier, we are doing all this when there has only been 4,200 deaths from COVID-19 in people with no pre-existing conditions, and only 1,901 under the age of 80.

49757 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #1161 of 1305 🔗

Not sure it is even that many… or are you quoting the whole of the UK as opposed to the ONS figures, which I think might just be for England and Wales?

49818 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #1162 of 1305 🔗

That’s England and Wales, also no autopsies taking place so going to be a significant amount of unknown pre-existing conditions in that 4,200.

49714 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #1163 of 1305 🔗

My grandfather fought in the first war, my father in the second. Am I man enough to fight in the current war?

49718 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #1164 of 1305 🔗

Yes. Whatever you do, don’t wear a mask!

49734 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Dave #KBF, #1165 of 1305 🔗

Yes you are.

49735 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #1166 of 1305 🔗

As am I.

49739 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1167 of 1305 🔗

Do your bit. The equivalent of not being a “collaborator”. Anything you do on the right side is enough.

49745 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1168 of 1305 🔗

It was one type of bravery to put your life on the line when your family, your religious leaders, the newspaper you read and your politicians were all telling you it was the right thing to do. This is more like being a conscientious objector: a totally different sort of bravery.

49715 RickH, 1, #1169 of 1305 🔗

I see an opportunity.

Mask + marker = message e.g ‘BORIS MASK – TOTALLY USELESS’

Think up your own and sing ‘Alice’s Restaurant’ . Loudly

49717 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #1170 of 1305 🔗

From the 5th June GOOD Morning Britain’s Dr Hilary Jones has today blasted the government after it announced face masks would be mandatory for everyone using public transport from June 15.
Dr Hilary said the coverings should be made compulsory now if the country is to stop a second wave of the coronavirus. Don’t forget the second wave!!!!

49923 ▶▶ mjr, replying to crimsonpirate, #1171 of 1305 🔗

And he is still saying exactly the same thing this morning. Second Wave going to cause up to 120000 deaths ..
I see project fear has ramped up

50004 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, #1172 of 1305 🔗

Jones is an awful specimen.

49722 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 14, #1173 of 1305 🔗

A few days ago people were gnerally a bit sceptical about my appeal to Toby to found a new Free Citizens Party. I think now it is much clearer what is at stake.,We need a party to fight for free speech, for our ancient liberties, for democracy, for our culture, for our borders and for our prosperity.

49877 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #1174 of 1305 🔗

I think it’s the end of political parties, you only need the one now which we’ve got in this new totalitarian society.

49726 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #1175 of 1305 🔗

We can’t get near Downing St, but we can get at the local Conservative offices and agents. Bigly.

49750 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to James Leary #KBF, #1176 of 1305 🔗

Grassroots won’t achieve anything. Boris et al aren’t worried about being deselected.They have got involve with “bigger boys” and they’re crapping themselves.

49794 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1177 of 1305 🔗

‘Crapping themselves’?? No, on the contrary I think they are laughing at what they have ‘achieved’ in the last few months…

49823 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Carrie, #1178 of 1305 🔗

No. Look at their faces. It’s like a film where the “hero’s” family is being held by a psychopathic killer and they aren’t allowed to call the fuzz.

49824 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1179 of 1305 🔗

They are NOT calling the shots

49841 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1180 of 1305 🔗

Then seriously, who is?

49885 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1181 of 1305 🔗

They are not but they are still responsible for their actions.

49826 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1182 of 1305 🔗

UKColumn talk about the Occupying Government. Could be the Davos gang. Or little green aliens.

49829 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #1183 of 1305 🔗

Green aliens – nah… Davos gang – well maybe, but don’t a bunch of them go to that jamboree themselves? Are those the only 2 options UK column are suggesting?

49851 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #1184 of 1305 🔗

3 options. The ‘Government of Occupation’ was their’s.

(The other two were mine – slightly disappointed you feel our new alien overlords can be so easily dismissed. But I won’t grass you up to them. 🙂 ).

49828 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1185 of 1305 🔗

Well Hancock always looks like he’s enjoying himself..

49876 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1186 of 1305 🔗

You can’t look at their faces anymore they’re behind masks now. The best thing ever for politicians.

49736 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 4, #1187 of 1305 🔗

I’m Horrified but I’m convinced that it’s nothing to do with health but because of pressure put on the government.
I can’t work out exactly what.
We must counteract this pressure and show that the lockdown facemasks compulsion will not work and will give the government trouble.

Local Conservative associations are one form of pressure, I agree. Boris could hemorrhage his supporters over this and pandering to the socialists won’t gain him any of their votes.

Any suggestions of other means of putting pressure on the government to relax this senseless rule ASAP much appreciated

49743 ▶▶ Basics, replying to FrankiiB, 12, #1188 of 1305 🔗

I genuinely think that all this qualifies as torture. This continued physcological attacking – endless nature of restricted freedoms – coercion through guilt of causing harm to others – it’s torture. Literally, definably, actually torture.

49744 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 2, #1189 of 1305 🔗

Without question.

49747 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to John P, 1, #1190 of 1305 🔗

yep

49755 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 1, #1191 of 1305 🔗

It’s not so different from what the Chinese Communists are doing to the Uighurs – and the former know a thing or two about torture.

49897 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Basics, #1192 of 1305 🔗

And we have the British military engaged in physiological warfare and torture against a civilian population.

50000 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Saved To Death, #1193 of 1305 🔗

Yes we do. And other top brass have been meek not to call that out. They knowingly stand by and watch their own country be attacked by an apperatus set up with our own funds. You coukd argue it is our fault for allowing such an apperatus to be set up to begin with – without journslists worth their salt who knew?

Arned forces top brass and retired high up I thought they had more fibre about them – medals made from canons of balaclave as crap – the threat is here it is now it is from within and they are on gardening leave playing golf.

49746 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to FrankiiB, #1194 of 1305 🔗

Join me on this

49754 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #1195 of 1305 🔗

Vote with your feet, do not visit any unessential shops. A few weeks of this and the retail market will really feel the hit, GDP and Growth will suffer, Councils will lose revenue, business will start to complain and the government will have to act.

49820 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 1, #1196 of 1305 🔗

I’m not sure we need any kind of boycott. I believe the sight of everyone in masks will lead to an immediate dip in economic activity.

49874 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #1197 of 1305 🔗

A boycott gets us there faster.

49879 ▶▶▶▶ RemainerButSceptic, replying to OKUK, #1198 of 1305 🔗

Back when it all started, when sensible heads still ruled in early march, you saw someone in a mask and, utterly irrationally, stayed further away from them than others. Masks may not be effective at stopping viral transmission, but they don’t have a negative effectiveness either, they can’t make it more likely. They make it almost exactly equally as likely as without a mask. Unlike today, mask wearers then did it because they genuinely (inaccuractely perhaps) thought it would stop or slow the spread, not because, as the morons today do, they wished to virtue signal. And yet, for some perverse and stupid psychological reasons, one tended to avoid mask wearers. There is something creepy about the masks, not creepy in any rational sense, just something that plays on the primitive parts of the mind. Masks scare people away, against their better judgements. Mandatory masking, what a way to terrify the sheep back indoors again, just when this moron government are trying to overcome the psychotic fears they’ve spent months stoking with propaganda. And what a way to send the economy back on the road to titsup.

49898 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to JohnB, #1199 of 1305 🔗

I think we need to at least try and continue without masks if all us sceptics just stop using these shops then there will only be masked sheep. The sheep need to follow if all they have to follow is masked sheep they will stay masked.

49738 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1200 of 1305 🔗

And now for the bright side! As Scotland had found, the mask law is unworkable very much worth reading if you are pissed off by the news tonight.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/police-scotland-no-fines-handed-out-those-not-wearing-face-coverings-shops-2912231

49741 ▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 7, #1201 of 1305 🔗

That’s all very well, but shopping sans mask will not be a pleasant experience with masked ghouls everywhere and I’m sure there will be plenty of masked fascists demanding that shop staff remove transgressors.

I’m still planning to avoid them altogether.

49749 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 2, #1202 of 1305 🔗

The obvious thing to do here is vote with your feet. If they are mandating this, then don’t go the shops, a few weeks of this and there will be so much uproar from retail that something will have to be done.

49759 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #1203 of 1305 🔗

That’s it. I know which shops I will and won’t use. All of it is sad. The whole thing. But you have to keep functioning and doing what you can to raise issues and increase thought.

49778 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #1204 of 1305 🔗

They’ve already shown they do not care one jot for the economy. Can’t see a bunch of grocers changing anything.

49811 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #1205 of 1305 🔗

It’s not grocers though, they’ve basically f*cked all small businesses already. It’s the high street stores like Primark, the big shoppjng centers like Intu, if they have no footfall then that soon causes economic damaged and we may finally start to hear the voice of big business that has been silent throughout the lockdown.

49819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #1206 of 1305 🔗

The thought of people turning to amazon now is too much. Shop local even if online! Easier said than done I realise.

49844 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #1207 of 1305 🔗

F*CK Amazon they are all too happy with this lockdown, that’s why they don’t support us, all the while having banners on their site promoting a Marxist terrorist group.

49849 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 4, #1208 of 1305 🔗

Saw this just now on Twitter:
Open Letter to UK Retailers:

‘Much though I’d like to support you, if you make facemasks compulsory in your shops I will not come in nor spend any money with you.

If that means you go broke you know who to blame.

I will NOT be demeaned and treated as a Biohazard’

49873 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 1, #1209 of 1305 🔗

That’s is exactly what we need to be doing.

49751 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 5, #1210 of 1305 🔗

Its a horrible horrible thing. The shaming atmosphere. But its very much to keep in mind that there is something to be done. You are not going to be fined, you can choose not to wear and if enough people do likewise who knows.

I won’t forget my days in this hell. But i am also positive that once people reach a critical mass of rejection, however that comes, we can get back some of our taken life.

49753 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 4, #1211 of 1305 🔗

It’s important to stay positive as much as possible.

Not always easy, but I am getting used to having this shit thrown at me.

It’s a blow, but I’m not letting it get to me tonight.

49761 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 1, #1212 of 1305 🔗

You got it.

49776 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #1213 of 1305 🔗

Not some, all. Fuck ’em.

49795 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 1, #1214 of 1305 🔗

Agree with all and fuck em. I think some to begin with then the rest will come.

49816 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #1215 of 1305 🔗

We need to hit them where it hurts. They’ve been completely silent throughout lockdown and happy to sacrifice the freedoms of the public, yet they can’t stop virtue signalling for BLM. Buy only the essentials and starve the rest of these companies of your business. They’ll soon get the message.

49758 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #1216 of 1305 🔗

Government sources said that ministers would monitor the situations and could introduce similar guidance [compulsion] for other settings in future.

What other settings can they possibly mean? Bars and restaurants would be impractical? Offices? Please god don’t tell me they mean outdoors?

And with virus prevalence so low when can we expect it to be removed? I’m thinking there will never be a low enough rate at which they can allow us to unmask because nobody can every die from a Covid.

Any number of people can die of cancer or strokes, if you’re a 32 year old wife and mother Bojo couldn’t care less if you die of breast cancer but rest assured, he will spend every penny and every ounce of political capital to ensure nobody age 90 ever dies WITH COVID-19.

49762 ▶▶ John P, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 6, #1217 of 1305 🔗

“And with virus prevalence so low when can we expect it to be removed?”

My guess is that they will say “when we have a vaccine”.

49766 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to John P, 3, #1218 of 1305 🔗

Bill is working night and day on that.

49793 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1219 of 1305 🔗

I think I’m right in saying that the fastest vaccine was developed and properly tested and trialled in 6 years… *if* they can do it faster this time it begs the question as to why they did not for other illnesses… No vaccine rushed out in the next year will be safe – no way..
BG is funding 7 of the candidate vaccines apparently (see Alliance for Natural Health’s website where there is an excellent film)

49807 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 6, #1220 of 1305 🔗

You’re right, Ebola vaccine was 5.4 years.

It’s safety controls that they are eliminating to get this rolled out faster. This means that there will be high levels of deaths and disabilities from it.

Anyone with any sense should not touch it for at least a minimum of two years from being released if they are planning to have it.

49827 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #1221 of 1305 🔗

BG said that we can expect 700,000 deaths from the vaccine itself – apparently he thinks that is ok…

49832 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #1222 of 1305 🔗

He did say the figure 700,000 will die, you can see the BBC interview of him saying so. He didn’t say it was ok. He said governments will need to pass laws so that pharm companies cannot be sued for the harm they WILL do. Then he said that would be ok.

49839 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #1223 of 1305 🔗

Pharma can’t be sued now for existing vaccines, look at the number of deaths the hpv vaccines has cause in children, it is way more than COVID-19. I believe thre is a payout of £120k though for death or disability from a vaccine, but no prosecution for malpractice can be brought.

49842 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #1224 of 1305 🔗

..which is immoral..

50130 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JohnB, #1225 of 1305 🔗

True of the US, not in the EU, see the Sanofi case. Although having left the EU, no doubt American pharma will insist we adopt their policy as a condition of a trade deal.

50205 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, -2, #1226 of 1305 🔗

If you voted for Brexit, you brought it on yourselves, see e.g:
Emory Law Journal
Liability for Vaccine Injury: The United States, the European Union, and the Developing World
Mary S. Holland ∗

“Introduction
The 2017 Thrower Symposium focused on how law addresses serious global public health challenges. One critical way the world community addresses disease is through vaccination. The World Health Organization (WHO) and other national health bodies strongly recommend vaccines in many circumstances. 1 Yet there is a scientific consensus that vaccines can and do cause harm and death in certain individuals, even when vaccines are properly manufactured and appropriately administered. So, who should bear this risk? Of course, the individual bears all the physical risk, both of protection from disease and potential adverse side effects. But what of the financial risk of potential vaccine harms? Who should pay—the manufacturer, the individual, the government, or some combination thereof?

This Article looks at current models for vaccine injury liability in the United States and the European Union, and also focuses on possibilities for the developing world in the future. In the United States, vaccine manufacturers have attained an extremely high level of liability protection through legislation and judicial interpretation. The 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (the Vaccine Act); the 2005 Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act (the PREP Act); and Bruesewitz v. Wyeth LLC, the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision interpreting the Vaccine Act, together afford vaccine manufacturers almost blanket liability protection from damages for vaccine harms. 2

In June 2017, the Court of Justice of the European Union (ECJ) provided guidance in a vaccine injury case that strikes a remarkably different balance. In E.U. countries, an injured person has the right to seek compensation in civil court and to allege that a vaccine is unreasonably dangerous or defective. The ECJ held that an injured party may bring “serious, specific and consistent evidence,” and can prevail if this evidence shows that the vaccine is “the most plausible explanation for the occurrence of the damage.” 3 The plaintiff can assert this claim even if a scientific consensus that a vaccine can cause the alleged injury does not yet exist.

While some contend that this ECJ decision opens the floodgates to litigation, scholarly commentary disfavors this view. Empirical work indicates that leaving courthouse doors open elevates vaccine safety. While access to courts for vaccine injury in the United States is essentially closed, it is more open in Europe; accordingly, the ways in which developing countries proceed is at stake.”

49840 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #1228 of 1305 🔗

If he thinks that the pharma companies should not be sued for the harms the vaccine *will* do, then he is clearly comfortable with that number of people either from, dying or being so harmed by the vaccine, that they would want to sue..

49855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #1229 of 1305 🔗

Correct Carrie

49858 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #1230 of 1305 🔗

30 students month due from the HPV vaccine in the USA, but it’s seen as acceptable as they insist it saves thousands later it life which is unprovable.

49846 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, #1231 of 1305 🔗

Those laws already exist. Most major countries have laws providing for “vaccine courts” where people damaged by vaccines can receive compensation without anyone having to admit liability.

49859 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, #1232 of 1305 🔗

He was talking about places where they don’t exist. Specifically he said governments will be required to pass such laws in order to have pharm companies willing to produce short cut vaccines.

Seek out the BBC breakfast interview. 17 mins or so. Quite incredible, but the he does give millions to bbc through various methods.

He is funding an anti fake news show presented by angelina jollie angked at children. Can you imagine how wholesome that little lot will be?

49833 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #1233 of 1305 🔗

He’s calculated that on vaccinating 7 billion people with a death rate of 0.01%.

50223 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to Carrie, #1234 of 1305 🔗

Well that’s actually more than have allegedly died so far of COVID-19, so why would one take a vaccine that is more likely to kill you than the disease it protects against?

49815 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #1235 of 1305 🔗

Shattock ‘prof’ Imperial college yesterday stated. Currently 15 people have trial vaccine in them. Slight glitch to testing in that there’s not enough covid in uk to test properly. So the trial will shift to africa or s america.. they not sure. 200 or 300 people, they not sure will get a trial vaccine. Odds on for being effective by early 2021. Then a good 6 months production.

How are other scientists not calling the timescales dangerous? Were are these people who ought to be adding rigour and safety by comment and discourse?

49825 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #1236 of 1305 🔗

‘There’s not enough Covid i the UK to test properly’ – and yet we are all now to wear masks for a virus that there is no longer enough of here for them to be able to trial a vaccine – not even with the spike in Leicester???

49837 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #1237 of 1305 🔗

Shattock Sophie Ridge Skynews yesterday. Thats what he said. There has been concern from ‘experts’ before now saying tgey ate in a tricky place where they really want the virus to stay around so the vaccine can be found.

Helps you to understand a main aim of GAVI – to ensure healthy markets for vaccines. Quite interesting to think about what a healthy market for a vaccine requires.

49862 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, #1238 of 1305 🔗

There’s no independent scientists anymore, the have all been brought, so no dissenting voices or they lose their jobs or funding.

49987 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #1239 of 1305 🔗

The scientific community is a sad group of unprofessional cowards. It’s one of the great reveals of covid. No human spirit of enquiry, honesty and curiosity exists within the scientific profession. If you know a scientist consider tham a weak yes man/woman – their conduct falls short of their previous standing. Exceptions of course – but as I’ve said before the silence of all recent graduates alone is shocking, taught by intellectually decrepit useless minds. What it must be to sit on your hands to protrct yourself knowing what is wrong.

49893 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Carrie, 1, #1240 of 1305 🔗

We have a reasonably safe inoculation – covid19 itself.

49786 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John P, 2, #1241 of 1305 🔗

Yes that is what it is all about and it is transparently straight out of the Bill Gates playbook. We are living in very dangerous times.

49789 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to John P, 1, #1242 of 1305 🔗

…which will inevitably lead to the vaccine being mandatory..

49804 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to John P, 2, #1243 of 1305 🔗

I’m not so sure. Another strand of government propaganda relayed to us via the BBC and Guardian today is all about how immunity doesn’t last and the vaccine cannot be 100% effective. By the logic of masks being “extra insurance” against Covid “coming back” and there being no such thing as herd immunity (even with a vaccine), I think masks are here to stay. Forever.

49813 ▶▶▶▶ Michael C, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1244 of 1305 🔗

Can we expect our massive CCTV network to be materially reduced in size by the wearing of facemasks? Surely not much point in filming people whose face the camera won’t be able to see!

49856 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Michael C, #1245 of 1305 🔗

The Chinese developed Facial recognition technology that works even with people wearing face mask during the HK protests. No doubt they are going to be getting a lot of order for their new systems.

49822 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1246 of 1305 🔗

Hancock and others are already talking about flu vaccines for all this winter and how they have to do something about the anti-vaxxers..

49891 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to John P, #1247 of 1305 🔗

The annual mandatory covid vaccine wont be enough on its own we will need face masks everywhere too make be sure.

49764 ▶▶ Basics, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1248 of 1305 🔗

The risk assessment done to ensure the law is safe and not harmful might make interesting reading.

49783 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Basics, 5, #1249 of 1305 🔗

There is no rule of law anymore. None.

49779 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1250 of 1305 🔗

Mason Mills hinted it would include outdoors… but I’m thinking they will likely make it mandatory in offices, theatres, cinemas etc first – in fact everywhere apart from your own home.
Would they make it mandatory in schools though?
Schools would be interesting because children are exempt, but they won’t exempt the staff given that adults will be masked everywhere else – and masks for teachers would be ridiculous as well as deeply unsettling for the children.

49788 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Carrie, 1, #1251 of 1305 🔗

It’s insane. My daughter in law has to wear one all day at work and it’s made her light headed. Another friend who wears one for work has broken out in acne at the age of 50. If they introduce it in offices people will be even more inclined to continue working from home.

49796 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1252 of 1305 🔗

According to UK column that’s what they want – no one travelling (even to work) any more..

49791 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Carrie, 3, #1253 of 1305 🔗

so ol bojo want’s people to go to offices – wearing a mask all day it just isn’t going to happen. At my office which i haven’t gone into yet, masks have to be worn in the corridors but not while sitting at desk. I guess it’s something but all day – forget it they may as well shut the place down as no-one will go in.

49889 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1254 of 1305 🔗

The reality is he has been helping those aged 90 to die with covid-19 too.

49781 Sue, replying to Sue, 9, #1255 of 1305 🔗

Holy crap i’m well pissed with this mask announcement – has Boris and his bullington club done anything right in this debacle? The comments in the telegraph seems there are a load of pissed off people. Perhaps we should go and have a protest since it seems to be the ‘in thing’ of every disenchanted sector of society!
i’m just going to get my arab scarf and wrap entirely round my head like lawrence of arabia and lift it up to drink my coffee – it’s a freckin joke this charade!

49809 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Sue, 2, #1256 of 1305 🔗

I’m going to tie mine like I’ve just rolled in from Raqqa. Remind people of the good old days when we had proper things to be scared of rather than a virus with a CFR of about 0.07%.

49870 ▶▶▶ RemainerButSceptic, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1257 of 1305 🔗

Terrorists weren’t a proper thing to fear either, just another piece of hype to use to eat away at our magna carta rights. If you want to look like something that our country had genuine reason to fear you’d have to look like a Soviet or a Nazi, both of which the lockdown zealots are copying very effectively from a behavioural perspective.

49894 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Sue, 1, #1258 of 1305 🔗

I’m sure that was a rhetorical question, but no, I don’t think that Boris has done anything right in this debacle – at least not since he substituted panic for what appeared to be an initially sensible response.

Apart from the fact that it’s a ludicrous decision, it’s a huge gift for Sturgeon. She has been rightly criticised for the care homes fiasco, and pretending that following Westminster policy with a 2 week delay was somehow different and better than what the rest of the UK was doing. Now it looks like the UK Government has endorsed her policy, and all her failings will be brushed under the carpet. Again.

49785 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 15, #1259 of 1305 🔗

Am I right in thinking the Conservative and Unionist Party died peacefully in its sleep on 13th July 2020?

49800 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, 2, #1260 of 1305 🔗

Yes. Although it had already been on its death bed for quite some time..

49802 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Carrie, 1, #1261 of 1305 🔗

Indeed…and there was me thinking Dr Johnson might cure the patient. Silly me!

50275 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, #1262 of 1305 🔗

We all make mistakes.

49803 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to OKUK, 4, #1263 of 1305 🔗

Yes but it died with, rather than of, Covid. It had numerous co-morbidities.

49806 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1264 of 1305 🔗

Excellent pathology AWD!

49866 ▶▶ RemainerButSceptic, replying to OKUK, #1265 of 1305 🔗

No, any hope of maintaining unity, or of conserving any values, got pissed out of the windows on March 23rd. This masks crap is a mess, but the biggest crime they committed they committed months ago, and still aren’t on trial for (my vote is have Lord Sumption as the judge for said trial).

49872 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #1266 of 1305 🔗

Died a long time before that, I think when Cameron was elected leader, possibly Hague.

49888 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to OKUK, #1267 of 1305 🔗

The death occurred the day of the coronavirus act. We are now being consumed by the stench that follows.

50273 ▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, #1268 of 1305 🔗

Peter Hitchens might suggest 20 years prior to that, at least.

49790 JohnB, 6, #1269 of 1305 🔗

I shall do my bit to ease the unemployment situation by paying someone to do my shopping.

49797 JohnB, #1270 of 1305 🔗

We need to get organised now more than ever. I was saying this last week’s but we all need to get on https://lockdownsceptics.com then we can start planning what actions to take.

Only by taking mass group action can we do something about what is happening. Toby is too busy with all his commitments so let’s do this ourselvrs, at least the if we come together as a group we can make a start.

49801 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 1, #1271 of 1305 🔗

Votes are to politicians what notes are to bankers. We have to have a new party – a real party not a plaything of Nigel Farage – which we can vote for so as to punish the mainstream parties.

49853 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 3, #1272 of 1305 🔗

The last thing I heard from Farage he was peddling the same line as the main political parties on COVID-19.

49861 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 1, #1273 of 1305 🔗

Full respect to Farage for holding the Tories feet to the fire over Brexit. That was a one off. TBP is not a credible political party dealing with a wide range of issues.

49936 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to OKUK, #1274 of 1305 🔗

Nigel Farage has gone a bit quiet of late though. Just wonder if he is on manoeuvres.

49961 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to OKUK, #1275 of 1305 🔗

With the BBC still controlling public opinion through a constant feed of poison, I don’t think such a party would get anywhere. Brexit was the one that got away – they won’t let that happen again.

And at this stage, I honestly think that such a party would be ‘turned’ after it got into power. No politician seems reliable these days.

49814 OKUK, 5, #1276 of 1305 🔗

Here is an address to the nation from the newly appointed Prime Minister, Toby Young:

“99.99% of you have not died of Covid 19. So go out and enjoy yourselves. The Mask Madness is over. “

49817 RickH, 2, #1277 of 1305 🔗

Another possibility for upsetting the apple cart (take yhe piss approach):

Buy a keffiyah, wear it covering the mouth as if a Bedouin in a sandstorm – and wear dark glasses.

49830 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 18, #1278 of 1305 🔗

My takeaway points from the last 24 historic hrs:

1. Boris Johnson is having some kind of mental health crisis.

2. The Conservative Party just died. Really.

3. We need a new party prepared to defend our free speech, our ancient liberties, our borders, our democracy, our culture and our borders.

49838 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to OKUK, 4, #1279 of 1305 🔗

Is this what the Tories mean by ‘Take back Control ‘. I feel like I’m living in a parallel universe.

49867 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Telpin, #1280 of 1305 🔗

It’s what they *always* meant. ‘Me’ control – not ‘You’ control.

49848 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to OKUK, 4, #1281 of 1305 🔗

Yes indeed.

They have joined Labour at the bottom of the dustbin, finally. You have to credit them – it took them 20 years longer than Labour but they got there eventually.

49850 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 7, #1282 of 1305 🔗

Can I just ask, the Tories did win the election didn’t they? As this is what I’d imagined life being like under Corbyn.

49869 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 2, #1283 of 1305 🔗

… which shows how the Big MSM Con works. Corbyn was never as dangerous as this lot.

49863 ▶▶ RemainerButSceptic, replying to OKUK, #1284 of 1305 🔗

Stop saying borders and I’ll be with you on all the rest.

49834 John P, 3, #1285 of 1305 🔗

“Lidl say they will not enforce use of face masks or coverings in Scottish stores”
https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/lidl-scotland-face-masks-coverings-18584765

49847 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 2, #1286 of 1305 🔗

Is this a mad thought or are Johnson and Cummings deliberately testing the water. See how embedded the fear factor is and shock us out of our stupor to return to normality? Oh, how I wish this were true but I’m really struggling to discern any rationale in the government’s behaviour over the past months, particularly in light of Gove’s comments on masks only yesterday! Was he really off message?

49852 ▶▶ FrankiiB, replying to Telpin, 1, #1287 of 1305 🔗

This would be a good time for Gove to resign, and leave Johnson to carry the can. Then Gove will have a decent chance to take over. Otherwise, he will be sunk too.

49868 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #1288 of 1305 🔗

Raab should resign.

49871 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to FrankiiB, #1289 of 1305 🔗

Then Gove will have a decent chance to take over.”

One nightmare to follow another? Are we tat f…cked?

49860 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Telpin, 1, #1290 of 1305 🔗

It’s a possibility. The apparent indecision over mask compulsion and other previous milestones seems like a technique of some sort.

49878 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Telpin, 3, #1291 of 1305 🔗

I can’t believe it….

In December it was like a new dawn. Boris would deliver Brexit and maybe some other stuff but that wasn’t important. as long as he delivered Brexit he was a shoe in for a top spot in the UK PM hall of fame….

But he didn’t leave it there did he?

49890 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 9, #1293 of 1305 🔗

Just to add to OKUK’s synopsis, I think all politics has died today, not just the Conservative Party.

I wouldn’t mind, but I had a blazing row with my OH and my mother yesterday about where this was leading (mum is 75 and was initially petrified but turned a corner a couple of weeks ago).

“It’s only for 20 minutes Howie whilst your in a shop. You can take it off again when you’re outside.”
“It is nothing to do with shopping, it’s about liberty, the removal of your rights. Do I need to point out that you have been shopping for nearly 4 months now without one? Are you effin blind as not one of you can see what is happening before you? For gawds sake, stop blindly accepting everything and start questioning, because none of you are stupid.”

I had to leave the room. Is it any wonder I still smoke?

Anyhow. Rant over. I’m off to bed. I cannot take any more of this today. Someone please wake me up in 12 months when this shitshow is finally over and the current crop of lunatics have been evicted from the house of morons?

49899 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Howie59, 2, #1294 of 1305 🔗

If everyone that can see whats happening slept for the next 12 months I don’t think we could imagine what it would be like when we awake. Tyrants don’t evict themselves.

49920 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 7, #1295 of 1305 🔗

My only hope is that this is a step too far and people will actually now protest against this. There seems to be a much larger proportion of the population who oppose this than there has been in other measures. The biggest fear is once in, the masks will stay for ever. Possibly not mandatory but a large chuck of people will continue to wear them.

49934 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1296 of 1305 🔗

I hope you are right. Sadly, all I see is blind obedience.

All I can do is mount my own tiny bit of resistance: no-one will be asked to wear a mask in my shop, no-one.

49966 Margaret, 3, #1297 of 1305 🔗

Up early this morning. Couldn’t sleep after OH came up to bed with the news about masks. I see this whole thing as a massive “arse covering “ exercise and believe me, there are a load of massive arses in this government. (My language has certainly deteriorated throughout this nonsense) The fact is that none of us on here will be required to wear a mask in shops. We are all on the exempt list in that it will cause us distress to put on and take off a mask. It’s a massive get-out clause. We need to be strong of course because the government are relying on “mask shaming” to make this work.
Look at quarantine. It was introduced on the 8th June and ended on the 10th July for a range of countries, so just over a month in total. Hardly time for it to have had any effect before the government did a U turn once they realised it was killing the tourist industry. I predict the same thing will happen with masks. It’s to encourage everyone to go back to work in places like London. In my own city, things are virtually back to normal, no queues, plenty of people in pubs and restaurants and very, very few masks. Courage, mes braves!

49975 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1298 of 1305 🔗

Skynews Kay Burley have put a figure to the second wave. “126,000 could die [in UK] by the time we get through to spring”.

50271 ▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 1, #1299 of 1305 🔗

it’s unbelievable that they get away with these lies.

50472 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Basics, #1300 of 1305 🔗

“Could” …. but they won’t.

49989 Sarigan, #1301 of 1305 🔗

From my cousin in Melbourne:

“Apparently we are going into Stage 4 lockdown this week…

Only essential businesses open, no two members of a household allowed to leave the house at the same time, curfews etc.

Feels just like Orwell’s 1984!!

1 death in Vic. They were 90 odd. This is giving people the hurry along that was required.”

50173 Sarigan, #1302 of 1305 🔗

MrMasonMills is very active on Twitter at the moment. Promising answers. Could all be hyperbole and testing for reaction but intrigued nonetheless.

51146 Paul B, #1303 of 1305 🔗

Since I cannot find the clip/quote this isn’t exact but I saw the police saying that they cannot hope to enforce mask wearing in shops and that it is up to shop keepers to impose conditions of entry.

Isn’t that discrimination based on a medical disability/condition ? I’d wager the same goes for airlines etc? Surely this isn’t legal, it’s bad enough they are just going to rely on others to tut and snitch people into compliance but for the deaf, asthmatic, heart diseased etc how can this be justified, is it legal and where can I find a solicitor to print me the wording as such if so?

76255 Isla Lucas, #1304 of 1305 🔗

Isla Lucas is my names,from Bergen Oslo, Norway. I have been suffering from this very terrible breath,(HALITOSIS)i have been dealing with bad breath for 12 years nothing seem to work,even though brushed and flossed at twice every day tried all bad breath products,going to Doctors nothing seem work an is very painful living with such a big diseases, at first i feel it was due to the food and not brushing my teeth twice daily was the case but little did i no it was not the problem sometime speaking in public i discover people around me were never comfortable when i speak, getting close to person was really a big problem,i feel smell from my mouth so i have to brush twice yet things were getting worst so i have to see a doctor who told me i have bad breath so he recommended some drugs for me to apply, first Mouthwashes antibacterial,Chlorhexidine,Cetylpyridinium chloride i keep using all this product i was never comfortable with this so i try all means seeking for possible solution from various hospital nothing seen to work doc keep recommending same drugs to apply it was really worst i try all and all nothing good work,i do some search for solution for my bad breath, where i saw some comment and videos on youtube about Dr Erediawa how they get cure of bad breath and other related disease with his Herbal drugs so i sent he an email on his email address; drerediawaherbs@gmail.com i told he about my halitosis, he reply back asking some questions and what i should do and not to do during intake of his herbal drugs which i comply i got it within 5 working days via Dhl he gave the instruction how i can apply it which i followed within 3 weeks my bad breath get rid off just like mericle my halitosis was gone i want to thank Dr, Erediawa for his good work you can contract he on his mobile line +2348159412586 or email he on his email address @ drerediawaherbs@gmail.com i assure you of your cure he also has cure for STI,UTI,STD,s

159950 Mark Burkes, #1305 of 1305 🔗

Has anyone compiled a list of the 24 MPs that voted against the extension of the current police state? I’d like to see it.

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-1flyingjohn-10

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