2020-07-15

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/15/latest-news-74/
Published2020-07-15T02:02:17
Last updated2020-07-15T02:02:18
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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51583 Richard O, replying to Richard O, 41, #1 of 1595 🔗

This comment under the Janet Street-Porter article linked by Toby shows the kind of puerile thinking we are up against:

65% less infection at least with masks – Vietnam 100 million people all masked from day 1 cases only 372 no deaths .

Well that’s a slam dunk then. Make masks mandatory forever, everywhere.

I have visited Vietnam twice in the last five years and do not recall seeing anyone wearing a mask, at any time, for any reason.

What evidence is there that all 100 million people in Vietnam were wearing a mask from “day one”? When was day one? What is the source for the 65% figure? How reliable are the cases/deaths statistics? Are there any other factors which could explain these statistics? And so on.

51587 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Richard O, 20, #2 of 1595 🔗

I see similar comments all the time – “universal” mask-wearing is responsible for the better pandemic outcomes in various Asian nations. If mask-wearing were truly universal, why did a number of those countries mandate masks at some point in the pandemic? And why did those countries have so many cases (noting that some of them, like Japan, didn’t even do mass testing). Full of holes, just like their lousy cloth masks.

51651 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Sally, 5, #3 of 1595 🔗

If they stop it, why do they always wear them, they never seem to get rid of any virus’ in those countries

51755 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #4 of 1595 🔗

pollution.

53001 ▶▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #5 of 1595 🔗

I am seeing lots of discarded masks and gloves.

52035 ▶▶▶ Derek Toyne, replying to Sally, 7, #6 of 1595 🔗

If face masks were so affective why did covid-19 leave Wuhan and infect the world.As for Japan no lockdown but like us at the beginning they quarantine infected and suspected people.This is why Japan as only suffered 1000 deaths even though they population is twice ours. This is how you control a pandemic not this constant change for change sack.

52639 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Derek Toyne, 5, #7 of 1595 🔗

The problem is the age old correlation/causation fallacy. There are a million and one reasons why Asia may have better outcomes – if it can be truly shown that they do have better outcomes. Here’s one: they had sars1. Maybe they have more exposure to other coronaviruses and have a lot more immunity. I wouldn’t stand by that, either, and we shouldn’t pretend that we know the answers any more than these stupid mask people believe that “they wear masks and have lower deaths, therefore…” is a slam dunk. Any scientist who published something based on that sort of data would be fired on the spot.

52793 ▶▶▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to RyanM, 2, #8 of 1595 🔗

Would always favour nature over big brother

53146 ▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to RyanM, 1, #9 of 1595 🔗

maybe their govt did not order the health service to record every death as cv nor ventilate the sick immediately?

53013 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Sally, 1, #10 of 1595 🔗

Same on Radio 4 today. Japanese people wear masks. Japanese people have fewer deaths with Covid. Ergo masks prevent Covid. You could not imagine a more bovinely stupid conclusion.
I blame modern education, especially the social sciences. They just don’t seem to embrace logical rigour and scientific method.

53038 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to WhyNow, 2, #11 of 1595 🔗

Post hoc ergo proctor hoc. They’re all at it. Ask them what a syllogism meant and they’d probably think it was some sort of premature ejaculation.

53614 ▶▶▶▶▶ Squire Western, replying to Bella, #12 of 1595 🔗

That should be “post hoc ergo PROPTER hoc”.

53171 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to WhyNow, 1, #13 of 1595 🔗

Logic should be a required course of study for every child. Plus remedial courses each step along the way to refresh their memory and keep their powers of logic faultless.

53680 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to WhyNow, #14 of 1595 🔗

Except Japanes people have greater incidence of flu despite mask wearing reaching fetishism levels in Japan.
https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/

53124 ▶▶▶ Jonathan, replying to Sally, #15 of 1595 🔗

Japan hasn’t had a lockdown and under one thousand deaths.

51602 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Richard O, 6, #16 of 1595 🔗

As the old joke goes, ‘21.2% out of 23 respondents said that 51.232% of statistics are completely reliable’.

51636 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cambridge N, 3, #17 of 1595 🔗

Good news, I’d heard that 85% were made up.

51644 ▶▶▶▶ Julian S, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #18 of 1595 🔗

At least 2 decimal places to give the comfortable reassurance of spurious precision. 84.83% is the number you were looking for.

51669 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian S, 7, #19 of 1595 🔗

Shouldn’t there be a 33 in there somewhere?

51825 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to annie, 3, #20 of 1595 🔗

And let’s not forget presentation. Useful words and phrases: “under” to suggest low, “over” to suggest high, “majority” despite it being a minority when don’t knows are taken into account, and “respected” polling outfit (when it’s actually run by new Labour apparatchiks).

51779 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #21 of 1595 🔗

Schoolboy error. You should play with the confidence interval in which case you’ll find a mere 24% were made up or, alternatively, a damning 98% if you prefer.

51797 ▶▶▶▶▶ Athanasius, replying to OKUK, 4, #22 of 1595 🔗

A surge in made up statistics, a terrifying second wave of them

51681 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Richard O, 6, #23 of 1595 🔗

The table in the Mail article shows that masks are obligatory in shops and parks in France.
They aren’t (yet anyway)

52322 ▶▶▶ John B, replying to Alec in France, 3, #24 of 1595 🔗

Masks are obligatory in France in some shops, not supermarkets, on public transport, on entering/leaving/moving around a restaurant but not seated, places like hairdressers. As from 01 August all public places, but the Government has yet to issue a list of public places that will be included. For example, offices, hotels – will they be included?

Zero new deaths currently, single digits for weeks, very few new infections since end of May. But… it’s all to stop that pesky second wave.

51756 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Richard O, 2, #25 of 1595 🔗

I’m going to get on to this. I have a friend living in Hanoi. I’ll email her now in the hopes she hasn’t gone off to bed yet.

51896 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #26 of 1595 🔗

My Hanoi correspondent has told me they were being worn back in January. She is yet to tell me, however, if they are still being worn by everyone in the country.

52028 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ned of the Hills, #27 of 1595 🔗

Thanks for checking this out. Apparently it was made mandatory in public by the Vietnamese government on March 16th, much earlier than most other countries. Whether this has anything whatsoever to do with the low cases/deaths is still an open question.

52327 ▶▶▶▶▶ John B, replying to Richard O, #28 of 1595 🔗

If it has, why effective in Vietnam not Wuhan and why do mask wearing Countries still have serious influenza epidemics?

52430 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Richard O, 4, #29 of 1595 🔗

My friend in Hanoi responded to m question:- “Is everyone now wearing a mask all the time”

No ..perhaps 70% of folks in buses – mandatory when boarding a plane.

Then she sent me a short video of people noshing in her husbands work canteen. People sat shoulder to shoulder and not a mask in view.

51772 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Richard O, 5, #30 of 1595 🔗

Vietnam, like China, is run by the Communist Party and so statistics are produced to order.

51841 ▶▶ John P, replying to Richard O, 3, #31 of 1595 🔗

“Well that’s a slam dunk then. Make masks mandatory forever, everywhere.”

Slam dunk? Er, no, not exactly. I’m not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. A random anonymous thought from someone on a DM comment thread is not definitive, is it?

This is currently the top rated comment on that thread:

“Making masks compulsory in the 4th month of a pandemic is like bringing condoms to a baby shower. (not my credit) but good grief what a incompetent government.”

A little better.

52019 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to John P, 2, #32 of 1595 🔗

Good point, constant vigilance is required to avoid confirmation bias and projection. Maintaining a clear, rational thought process is a constant challenge.

51918 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Richard O, #33 of 1595 🔗

Classic deliberate and desperate cause and effect mix up.
But you cannot reason with a fanatic, least of all with one who is part of a like minded crowd- see Brexit…

51584 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 83, #34 of 1595 🔗

Your recent early morning updates have been a salve to this father currently in the mire of night feeds, Toby – thank you!

I feel slightly more optimistic about the mandatory muzzle edict after having a day to digest the news. Something is telling me that as this ramshackle shitshow of a Government lurches from one idiosyncratic, trigger-happy ruling to the next, a great fire of utter resentment for them will start to burn across our land.

From bizarre quarantine orders to the locking down of Leicester, to the continued assault on the high street and small businesses by this dehumanising, rotten command to suffocate on our own exhalations as we traipse around these places. Add to that the inevitable nastiness that is already present on the likes of Twitter, but will invariably spill out into wider society as we enter a new shaming culture perpetrated by hysterical muzzealots.

Your average punter will become very pissed off with it all, very quickly I’ll bet.

I feel this will gradually precipitate a trickle of scepticism towards these oppressive measures within the general public, and the flock will start to slowly thin. People previously cowed into silence may soon find their voices. Organised “boots on the ground” protests and crowd-funding appeals for legal challenges may suddenly see their numbers and coffers swelled respectively. Those suffering from mental health and anxiety issues may find solace within boards like these, growing our community. Growing our influence.

Boris et al are continually poking the bear, stress-testing the nation to see just what else they can take from us, or force us to do in order to serve their warped New Abnormal agenda. With each new diktat, with every further assault on our civil liberties, they are collectively sticking their heads into the mouth of a crocodile.

It’s only a matter of time before we hear a satisfying “snap.”

51591 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to Scotty87, 39, #35 of 1595 🔗

The sooner, the better. I can’t take this for much longer. I have a hidden disability, so I have plenty of discrimination to look forward to over the coming months. It’s posts like this that keep me going.

51867 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Andy C, 2, #36 of 1595 🔗

“I can’t take this for much longer.”

You can. Yes, you can.

52103 ▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Andy C, 4, #37 of 1595 🔗

I’m very glad I can put you mildly at ease Andy, although I feel incredibly angry that people such as yourself could potentially suffer abuse and intimidation from the muzzealots simply for suffering from a nonobvious disability that would exempt you from wearing a mask.

I’d suggest a very brightly-coloured lanyard with the words “MASK EXEMPT” emblazoned across it, many are now available via eBay if this assists you. Hopefully, that would repel the bulk of the bedwetters!

52219 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Scotty87, #38 of 1595 🔗

I hate the ‘papers please’ aspect of this, though. Since when have we ever had to show any proof of anything to enter a shop?

52198 ▶▶▶ Michele, replying to Andy C, #39 of 1595 🔗

Hi Andy
Keep smiling – we’re all in this together and we WILL prevail 🙂

52571 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Andy C, 2, #40 of 1595 🔗

Stay strong, we are in this together.

52755 ▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #41 of 1595 🔗

Don’t forget: Freedom is slavery.
War is peace.
Ignorance is strength.

51593 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Scotty87, 13, #42 of 1595 🔗

Great post, really boosts my morale this morning. Thanks Scotty.

51598 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Scotty87, 17, #43 of 1595 🔗

Well said Scotty. Toby’s post and your comment has made my day! 🙂

And you may be right. Someone on You Tube wondered if this will be Boris’ Poll Tax moment. We might not have to wait until October for the shit to hit the fan.

51605 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #44 of 1595 🔗

Yes, I thought Poll Tax moment too. They introduced it in Scotland in 1989, a year earlier than in England. Few down south seemed that bothered about what was happening close by. But that changed with a vengeance when they attempted it in England. The civil disobedience led directly to the fall of the Thatcher government.

The parallels with the current situation and mood seem compelling. And Johnson has far, far less residual goodwill than Thatcher.

51608 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 12, #45 of 1595 🔗

And of course Johnson will have it far worse because of the soaring unemployment and bankruptcy rates. I don’t think we’ve seen the worst of it yet but come September when the next rent cycle begins and October when the furlough scheme ends, its not going to end well.

51624 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #46 of 1595 🔗

Yep, storm clouds gathering everywhere for Planet Johnson. And the clown will be too stupid to have realised it yet.

51637 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 10, #47 of 1595 🔗

This is not going to end well for him. Despite the sheep conforming to the muzzles and going “I’m all right Jack” the silent majority are getting restless. If the government thinks that they should be afraid of the BLM protesters they should be even more afraid of Joe and Jane Public who having lost their jobs and homes will start to believe that they have nothing to lose by rioting.

51739 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 24, #48 of 1595 🔗

If only Bart. I’m quite disgusted with my fellowmen, I can’t understand how easily they fell for this stunt. So many accept these draconian rules without so much as a wimper of resistance. There is so much going on here than meets the eye.

51749 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 21, #49 of 1595 🔗

Going back to work two days ago was a real eye opener because I’ve never seen so many brainwashed people in one room in my entire life.

As I told Mr Bart, I’m convinced that over half of them would willingly join the Stasi if it existed here.

51793 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bart Simpson, 28, #50 of 1595 🔗

When I was young I used to wonder how Nazi Germany happened and comforted myself that it could never happen here. I am no longer so complacent….I see all to easily how it could happen. Its no coincidence that its called ‘herd immunity’…thats what the human race is…a herd with no individuality…except for the good people on this site of ALL political persuasions.

51958 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to They dont like it up 'em, 10, #51 of 1595 🔗

Have you read ‘They Thought They were Free: The Germans 1933-1945’ by Milton Mayer? It leaves little room for doubt as to how easily a population can be made to embrace totalitarianism. And I agree with you about this site. An oasis for many of us, wherever we’ve come from. (‘Love your handle, by the way 🙂 )

52346 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #52 of 1595 🔗

Aw thanks Corporal Jones lives on but I am sure Dads Army will be banned one day. Thanks for that reference it sounds a very interesting book. I shall try and get hold of that.

52785 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #53 of 1595 🔗

That’s a good recommend, many thanks.

53162 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #54 of 1595 🔗

what about the USSR in 1917?
The little black book of communism

52783 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to They dont like it up 'em, 3, #55 of 1595 🔗

Exactly. Even the Soviet Union during the Great Purges was the same, the veneer of civilisation is only skin deep, underneath is the thick layer of barbarism. What we’re seeing now is barbarism and one that’s causing greater damage than those inflicted by the Germanic tribes in the run up to the fall of the Western Roman Empire.

53084 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to They dont like it up 'em, #56 of 1595 🔗

Totally agree, been saying that meself lately. Another of life’s mysteries solved. Now to the mystery of where our politicians have all gone, and why their collective (metaphorical) b*lls have shrivelled to the size of frozen peas (ie slightly larger than their brains).

53056 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #57 of 1595 🔗

They would have also surrendered to Hitler in September 1939.

52002 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #58 of 1595 🔗

To quote Gerald Celente, “when people lose everything, they lose it.”

52090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, 16, #59 of 1595 🔗

It’s all about where you get your information from.

My asthmatic friend has been happily living in her lockdown bubble, listening to iplayer and discovering the joys of having her food delivered. She has been very indignant about people who dared to cycle or walk through the village.

When I’ve complained about lockdown, she’s given me the “but what can you do about it, might as well make the best of it, just accept that’s what’s happening right now” etc etc etc.

Yesterday, she had a rant about how young people’s futures have been unnecessarily destroyed. I quietly pointed out that I’ve been angry about that since April.

Hopefully the penny is starting to drop.

52692 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Bella Donna, 14, #60 of 1595 🔗

Worried that 99% of the population have been successfully brainwashed by government (so called) leaders, the media and social media lockdown zeolots, excluding a few of my free thinking, enlightened friends (4 out of 5 being in medical professions – human and animal but silenced by employment contract terms). Have posted different credible and detailed peer reviewed published scientific and medical articles on my own FB page and in local groups and received silence from all but my medic friends, some FB friends ‘unfriending me’ in response, or they have posting rude or challenging comments (with government propaganda or social media untruth. From the 4 local groups it brought me a torrent of quite shocking, aggressive and mostly personally directed abuse each time. A few locals have ‘liked’ my posts and the brave ones commented they were interesting, only to have other group members then round on them with invective; the least aggressive simply add laughing emojis.

After receiving more of the same this morning following a share of 2 of the articles flagged up at the end of Toby’s letter on the ineffectiveness and harmful consequences of wearing masks, I have decided to continue with my posts in the hope that it helps some silent folk too fearful to speak up, but I shall stop reading and responding to any comments in future. Blood pressure and stress levels already way too high.

52975 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #61 of 1595 🔗

This will be over when the majority realise it’s a scam. Keep at it..

52759 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #62 of 1595 🔗

People fear death more than loss of liberty.
Even if it’s just a small risk.

52969 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Rachel, 4, #63 of 1595 🔗

It’s very sad, isn’t it.

I can honestly say that if we had to live like this forever, I’d rather be dead. (And I tihnk the suicide rates probably back me up – terrible that all the truly *alive* people will be killing themselves whilst all the braindead drones are left alive)

53094 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Felice, replying to Farinances, #64 of 1595 🔗

That’s just what I have been thinking. I am just so so lonely. I moved to this area recently and had just started to join some groups and make contacts. And then lockdown. So now I am all alone, with a husband who is too busy with his own stuff to care that I am totally alone and depressed. And I can see no end to it. All the groups I had just joined have shut down. How on earth do I meet anyone now? I am just so so lonely and depressed.

53165 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Farinances, #65 of 1595 🔗

maybe there’s somewhere else we can go and live?

51780 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #66 of 1595 🔗

The BLM protesters were mostly young trendy middle class girls…hardly something to quake in your boots about…though admittedly there were some thugs on the fringes.

53120 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #67 of 1595 🔗

Agreed. In January, I’d have said there’s no chance of a rebellion but it was all about bread and circuses till then. With the circuses (Love Island, X-Factor et al) forced out, all it will take is for the bread (via the furlough scheme) to stop flowing in time for Winter of Discontent – the sequel.

51658 ▶▶▶▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #68 of 1595 🔗

I’m of the opinion the furlough scheme will never end, but will morph into UBI or whatever they will call it. Already they are ramping up the fear porn for the second wave this coming winter so it seems unlikely they will stop furlough in October, on the cusp of winter. “Free” money forever seems to be the mantra of governments around the world and has been for some time now.

51682 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John Lilburne, 6, #69 of 1595 🔗

That will still be unsustainable. The BoE are already sounding the alarm over QE and the ballooning debt. They can’t be printing money forever and once various sectors such as hospitality, retail, tourism, culture and heritage flounder there won’t be any money to bail them all out.

51736 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #70 of 1595 🔗

Governments have been on an unsustainable footing for years. The bailouts never really ended from the last time. As for the BoE sounding the alarm, they are the ones causing the conflagration. Never allow the arsonist to act as firefighter. They shouldn’t be printing money, but that doesn’t mean they won’t test the bounds of what was previously though unthinkable. I certainly hope they won’t, because you are absolutely right, it is unsustainable, distorting and immoral. I fully expect them to continue on this path though because if they stop, the real crash begins.

51747 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John Lilburne, 5, #71 of 1595 🔗

Agree. We are heading for a crash anyway come what may, the UBI won’t help especially when people realise that it will be useless when it comes to paying their bills.

51805 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to John Lilburne, 13, #72 of 1595 🔗

It’s vitally important that every one of us starts local trade systems (LETS) with locally issued currency. Under Gates’ vision for Global Reset, free market enterprise will cease to exist. This is why Western economies have been demolished. Only state partners will actually trade. The rest of us will have jobs. And there won’t be access to jobs or bank accounts without your vaccination record / digital ID / social credit score.

The only solution to this and the only means by which economic freedom can be re-established or maintained is to have local trade networks and currencies that are outside the control of this system. Such schemes were popular in the 70’s and we urgently need to revive them now. They hold the key to freedom.

A town in New York has started up a LETS using currency printed on wood using an old fashioned printing press. But there are also many pre-rolled packages for the creation of digital currency.

Perhaps skeptics could even start a national network of trade and counter economics. This is highly subversive stuff. Expect it to be made illegal. But it’s the key to freedom itself and it’s therefore absolutely crucial.

Start here https://www.letslinkuk.net/

51848 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Willow, 3, #73 of 1595 🔗

We’ve got one here in Sussex –

https://www.thelewespound.org/

52227 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to JohnB, #74 of 1595 🔗

I’m not far from Lewes and never knew about their £

53155 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to JohnB, #75 of 1595 🔗

God knows there was nowhere to spend them in Lewes until very recently. Very ‘Guardian’, Lewes. Cliffe High Street is a bit more capitalist. Must be the Harvey’s…

51903 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to Willow, 1, #76 of 1595 🔗

I recommend looking into Bitcoin. It’s a much steeper learning curve than using wood (!), but it is the only sound money of the digital world as far as I know. It is slowly taking off in those countries with currency collapse (Venezuela, Lebanon) amongst the younger population. It is a rabbit hole though, so not something one can look into without adequate attention.

51904 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John Lilburne, 1, #77 of 1595 🔗

Bitcoin?

I don’t think so.

51914 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to John P, 1, #78 of 1595 🔗

Video of Saifedean Ammous at Mises Institute in 2019. 20 minutes long. A good primer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkNhSPxFsnY

Some call it digital gold. Bitcoin isn’t yet for everyone, you really need to be somewhat technical but it appears to be the best chance for a new currency outside of the state.

51929 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John Lilburne, 1, #79 of 1595 🔗

The problem with Bitcoin is that it’s too volatile, it has fluctuated from £4,000 to £10,000 in the last year. You quickly lose a lot of money on it. The other thing is it’s pretty much tied to China now as that is where the majority of the mining takes place, I think that dip to £4,000 was because China said they were had plans to regulate bitcoin.

Also, only 60% of bitcoin is in circulation, 40% is basically unusable due to lost keys.

51948 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to JohnB, #80 of 1595 🔗

There’s definitely a long way to go before it can be considered an alternative currency and achieve mass adoption. Volatility being the main problem for many. You certainly wouldn’t want to put your savings in it at the moment. I’m not sure about the 40% figure for lost keys as no one can really know what the figure is. You might be right, but even so, the price adjusts to reflect this over time.

As for being tied to China, I don’t know enough about mining locations to comment. I do know that states, even China, will find it hard to regulate Bitcoin. They can make decrees and try to confiscate the low hanging fruit, but there are ways to avoid state censorship/confiscation. Despite that dip you mention, the price is back up suggesting the Chinese regulation plans either don’t hold much water, or people aren’t too concerned about it (maybe they should be?). Even so, I don’t doubt all states will do everything they can to stop the rise of a competing currency. The monopoly on money is the most important tool of repression a state has in its arsenal.

Again, it’s not going to replace GBP or USD anytime soon, but it is slowly making inroads and I believe is worth further investigation by those who are interested.

53212 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bigV, replying to JohnB, #81 of 1595 🔗

I am a huge fan of Lockdown Sceptics living in Tokyo (no such lockdown here fortunately!) I am a heavy bitcoin miner (Bitcoin Cash to be more precise). I chose to locate my mining hardware in China at a private mining farm set up at a hydro electric plant by enthusiasts. China has very cheap electricity prices so market forces are behind the high prevalence of mining in China, but it doesn’t mean bitcoin is “tied to China”. I’m 100% in control of my mined bitcoins which are transmitted daily to my phone wallet. Also, many dismiss bitcoin on grounds of price volatility but they need to zoom out and look at the longer term price performance. Bitcoin (and it’s forks) has appreciated exponentially, even going through six major crashes in it’s 11 year existence. Volatility continues to reduce as usage in commerce increases. There’s a thriving community of Tokyo bitcoiners who use Bitcoin Cash every day to buy beer in bars, food in restaurants, pay bills, move money instantly around the world and use for flights and hotels, all without touching banks, government payment services and avoiding surveillance. And there are many such communities around the world who are determined not to just buy and hold, but to actually put it to use as real world money. If you’re interested check our meetup page and see how we use Bitcoin Cash in action.

https://www.meetup.com/Tokyo-Bitcoin-Cash-Meetup-Group/

Note, I even used Bitcoin Cash to purchase my very own Special Friend badge from James Delingpole – of which I wear proudly to piss off the Covid Bedwetters all around me!

Lastly – with all of the money printing going on to pay people to do sweet F.A. instead of actually being productive, I highly recommend “Economics in One Lesson” by Henry Hazlitt. It’s a real page turner that you can complete in a day, a seriously good read for the covid era!
It’s available in most online stores but I recommend buying from the Mises Institute here https://store.mises.org/OneLesson.aspx

52001 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to John Lilburne, 2, #82 of 1595 🔗

The main problem with BTC is that it requires access to Telecoms networks. It may not be possible to get on the internet in future without your digital ID. The currency needs to be totally independent of government control. Otherwise it’s pointless.

52018 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to Willow, #83 of 1595 🔗

You might be right, although I wouldn’t go so far as saying it is pointless. Even in countries with severe repression/hyperinflation that have tried to use Internet kill switches, etc., Bitcoin’s use has grown. There are also technical ways around the telecoms issue. None that most people can possibly do now, but that could change.

I agree though, the currency needs to be totally independent of government control. I still think Bitcoin is the best shot we have.

edit: I fully support your comment that says “ Perhaps skeptics could even start a national network of trade and counter economics”. 

52328 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ A leaf, replying to Willow, 1, #84 of 1595 🔗

Will you marry me? Our future predictions are almost %100 same we could be a good couple :))

53219 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bigV, replying to Willow, #85 of 1595 🔗

Bitcoin can be stored offline and transmitted through any network, or even printed to paper. Ad-hoc mesh networks can be created by individuals without the need for “last mile” ISPs who are controlled by governments. Mesh networks can be created/joined with nothing more than a mobile phone or domestic router. Join a bunch of mesh networks together and you can have a metropolitan area network free of any ISP control. join a bunch of those together and you have a free decentralised internet, and the ISPs and governments effectively get orphaned. You can further protect yourself from surveillance by always using a good VPN like Mullvad which you can purchase anonymously using Bitcoin Cash.

52772 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to John Lilburne, 1, #86 of 1595 🔗

Precious metals is what Peter Schiff and other economists recommend. Also dry goods you can barter if everything goes down. Time to prep.

53156 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Rachel, #87 of 1595 🔗

And ciggies. And spirits. Good barter goods, even if you don’t smoke or drink yourself.

51769 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #88 of 1595 🔗

How soon before they help themselves to our savings, all done as doing our civic duty.

51917 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #89 of 1595 🔗

They already are sadly, with low (and already negative in real terms, but soon to be negative in nominal terms as well) interest rates.

52747 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #90 of 1595 🔗

Done to the Greeks in recent years, according to my plumber who has Greek relatives. Private pension and savings pots all raided directly. If use of cash is banned because it is dirty and can harbour virus particles, we will not even have the option to hide it under the bed!

53216 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bigV, replying to Bella Donna, -1, #91 of 1595 🔗

In Cyprus in 2012 depositors had their savings looted by the government in what has been described as a ‘haircut’. In Greece and recently in Hong Kong, ATM withdrawal limits were put in place preventing people from accessing their funds. And in the UK to pay for Covid related government incompetence, the government is already looting so called “dormant” accounts. So if you’ve not touched your savings for a pre-determined period the govt will simply help themselves.
Basic rule to remember is, money you deposit at the bank doesn’t belong to you any more, it belongs to the bank, which is an arm of the government who can do what they like. You simply have a claim to the amount you deposited. In times of economic crisis, due to fractional reserve banking system, the government and all other depositors will have a claim to the bank’s limited reserves and you could be left high and dry.

The other sinister method they use to get access to your wealth is inflation, which they control through the supply of money in circulation (i.e. printing it out of thin air).

Bitcoin’s is outside of the reach of government control and has a limited supply that they can’t change. From that perspective it is a safe haven from inflation, government seizure and surveilance. But needs mass adoption to reduce volatility.

51878 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #92 of 1595 🔗

There is no reason why electronic money printing cannot carry on forever if the Central Bank is really determined to press the self destruct button….and lets face it who could rely on them not being willing to do this. Some kind of constitutional limits need to be placed on governments in terms of how far they can pursue the ‘funny money’ illusion or we are all doomed. I say that as an economist who has always been an admirer of JM Keynes. I think he would have thought the QE pantomine was a disaster.

52005 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to John Lilburne, #93 of 1595 🔗

Agreed. That UBI will have some very long strings attached. No doubt big tech will be involved with something more disturbing than China’s social credit system.

52013 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #94 of 1595 🔗

Something like this maybe:

https://www.mintpressnews.com/africa-trust-stamp-covid-19-vaccine-record-payment-system/269346/

They always test things on the voiceless first. Although, with our muzzles, we will be the voiceless.

52126 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John Lilburne, 1, #95 of 1595 🔗

It is unclear how much the Wellness Pass initiative is motivated by public health concerns as opposed to free market considerations. Indeed, the GAVI alliance, largely funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates and Rockefeller Foundations, as well as allied governments and the vaccine industry, is principally concerned with improving “the health of markets for vaccines and other immunization products,” rather than the health of individuals, according to its own website.

Yeesh!

52246 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to John Lilburne, #96 of 1595 🔗

Could well be. I’ve been thinking it was on the cards for a while as a consequence of increasing automation. This just accelerates the timetable. Whether that’s convenient or not, I’ll leave to other’s judgements.

52591 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to John Lilburne, 6, #97 of 1595 🔗

David Icke has been regarded as a crackpot and he has strange theories but in some respects he is spot on. One theory he had that lockdown is deliberately designed to create mass unemployment. Lockdown is the perfect way to achieve this and we have seen huge job losses created by lockdown.

When you are unemployed your financial independence is taken away from you are dependent on the government for your income which gives the government power over you. The unemployed have suffered benefit sanctions and being forced on workfare schemes. It is scary to think Icke might be right.

52792 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to ianric, 2, #98 of 1595 🔗

Over here in America it’s been pretty obvious to many they want Trump to lose. Since he’s taken credit for the good economy they want to ruin that to beat him in the next election. Pretty crazy sounding. But for many Washington politicians it’s personal.
By whipping the masses into a panic over this “plague” they’ve encouraged them to obey orders and stay home. No matter what.
Even Trump fanatics were fearful and thought the slightest breath of air blown on them could “cause certain death.” A quote from one of the sheeple. On both sides politically.
My own mom refuses to believe the government is not interested in our well being. Insists it’s all done through sheer concern for our health. Sorry. I’ll believe the pandemic death rates are exactly as reported and lockdown saves lives long before I’ll trust any bureaucrats in Washington.

53027 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Rachel, #99 of 1595 🔗

I see good cop – bad cop working as normal – but I love to be proved wrong and find a saner and more inspiring life and world to live and share in. Lockdown deaths are assigned to ‘covid19’ as well as is almost any other death. Death by all causes is the most reliable statistic and apart from deaths resulting from lockdown we are seeing roughly what happens every year but interpreted by intent to terrorise and insinuate a new normal of human beings as perpetual and persistent vectors of infection. That this accurately described consciousness with regard to totalitarian agenda is masked in code.
For many, the horror of man’s inhumanity to man – in our time, in our country and in our town is too terrifying to face, and though the full consequence has yet to become apparent, cutting off life support does not make us ‘safer’. But the sense of protection from an overwhelming horror is whatever mask can be hidden behind.
But ‘who told you your were naked?’
WHO told you that you were defenceless, had no immunity, and would be overwhelmed by contagion but the voice for fear?
The capacity to feel and face our fear is the capacity to break the spell of its mindset – which is lockdown, self-isolation, social distantiation, and masking in narrative identity of assertion – set in fear, masking in virtue – but utterly joyless. There is no love in it. Don’t listen there in hope of uncovering love’s honesty for it is ruled out.

52998 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to ianric, #100 of 1595 🔗

It may be that disclosures are in the open but framed in way that discredit or invalidate them. (Nothing is really hidden so much as masked).
I do not focus on the persons so much as on resonance and relevance to who I accept myself to be. Narrative identities operate filters and rules – as is so obvious in any polarised issues in which the issues are personalised as a means of getting identity from, whether by agreement or in opposition.
The other quality I look for is coherence, congruency and integrity. Icke has persisted in ‘exposing a corrupt society’ but insofar as I have found has a vendetta against THEM – and is a brand of all about how THEY do it to us – without a real opening into who we make a version of THEM and react to it as real. Icke talks a bit ABOUT a ‘higher vibrational state’ or aligned and conscious purpose – but I don’t feel resonance with his presentation. So I can listen without needing to defend against – and feel through the noise to the signal – as with anyone else.
I have a sympathy for the reptilian idea because the cognitive dissonance that has become highly illuminated in recent months is the subjugation of higher mind functions to the primitive or reptilian brain – which is in part the fight-flight – or freeze – response. When our core trauma is triggered, we lose our minds and are in effect controlled by reactions. In a sense our separation trauma have for the most part never been consciously addressed, reveluated or re-integrated (healed) and ‘social masking is the means by which we meet without really meeting – in large part. Fear and control operate instead of love and in the mask of seeming virtue. Love is not coercive.
Love is not something that can be brought into the polarised and polarising ‘identity’ – which has its own meanings of ‘love’ while for the most part weaponising grievance of ‘love’s denial or attack’ as the basis for righteous hatred, justified attack or ‘holy war’. Thus it is war conflict and separation that are ‘saved’ by protecting fear – in the name of love. While hate is accused in those who are aligned in self-honesty and a willingness to communicate as a basis for decisions that benefit everyone involved – and not sacrificing all individuals to someone’s idea of a ‘collective good’.

“I’m for truth, no matter who tells it. I’m for justice, no matter who it is for or against. I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.”
― Malcolm X

51657 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to TJN, 4, #101 of 1595 🔗

Well, the poll tax was really used by pro-EU forces to unseat Thatcher. It was just a convenient way for Heseltine etc to make her leadership increasingly difficult.

51695 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to IanE, 2, #102 of 1595 🔗

Yes, I’m sure there was something in what you say, although I think the PT was the main driving feature used by those with an anti-Thatcher agenda. As I recall, Heseltine voted for the Poll Tax implementation in Scotland, but was all put out about it in England.

The EU feature has more parallels with today.

51899 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to IanE, 2, #103 of 1595 🔗

Yes it was undoubtedly predominantly about the Tories’ beloved EU. Remember it was them who took us into it whilst Labour then were divided over it. The main Tory opponent was Enoch Powell…see Simon Heffer’s excellent biography. Politicians like Sir Geoffrey Howe,John Major and Cameron and May were EU fanatics determined to take us ever further in. Johnson was never a serious EU critic…he just rode the wave to climb to power himself. And my god look what the cretin has done with it.

51776 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to TJN, 2, #104 of 1595 🔗

I think it was much more the ‘No No No’ speech in the House of Commons which did for Mrs Thatcher. The Tory establishment could not bear to hear of their beloved EU talked about in such ways. The Tory party was stuffed with Remainers then even more than now. Most of the top brass even wanted the Euro currency. Fortunately John Major’s utter disaster with the ERM saved us from that fate.

53053 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to TJN, #105 of 1595 🔗

Yes, but the poll tax invited universal opposition. This crap has a majority in favour.

51729 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #106 of 1595 🔗

Not only do I want Bojo gone but for Hancock to be strung up! It didn’t take much for him to don his jackboots, The unrelenting attacks on our civil liberties are an outrage, and yet plenty of idiots out there do not mind at all. Where will this end?

51745 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #107 of 1595 🔗

I would want to revive the Code of Hammurabi especially for both Hancock and Ferguson – its the least that they deserve: “If any one ensnare another, putting a ban upon him, but he can not prove it, then he that ensnared him shall be put to death.”

51902 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bella Donna, #108 of 1595 🔗

North Korea?

51609 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Scotty87, 5, #109 of 1595 🔗

Wish I shared your optimism.

51634 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Hoppity, 24, #110 of 1595 🔗

I do. Johnson and the lockdown stalinists have made a very serious tactical error over nappies.

In contrast to back in March, the opposition is vehement, coalescing, and gathering momentum. It isn’t going to go away.

It appears that neither the supermarkets nor the police are going to enforce nappy wearing.

I give it 50-50 that by 24 July Johnson will have climbed down from the nappy policy, and having given that ground he will be effectively finished, although he may limp on for a bit.

51646 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to TJN, 7, #111 of 1595 🔗

I really hope so.

51666 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 4, #112 of 1595 🔗

Help to make it so!

51693 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to TJN, 6, #113 of 1595 🔗

Gosh I do so hope so. I need some hope today.

51735 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to TJN, 5, #114 of 1595 🔗

I agree, the opposition feels stronger this time. I’m trying to be hopeful.

51851 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TJN, 4, #115 of 1595 🔗

Agreed. There is just so much information available that masks are bad for people that most will eventually catch on.

52139 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, 4, #116 of 1595 🔗

Re masks:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/14/coronavirus-mask-wearing-in-english-shops-will-be-difficult-to-enforce

The measure has had broad cross-party support, despite Swayne’s objections. One Tory source said there was privately “lots of unease” at enforcement via legislation but few wanted to raise concerns publicly.

So much for our elected representatives!!

Even Ukip issued a statement on Tuesday condemning right-wing commentators who have criticised the move. “It concerns us that so many like-minded, free-thinking people in the UK are objecting to this, calling them ‘muzzles’ and ‘face nappies’,” the party said in a statement. “We too would not support the move if the science wasn’t compelling.”

That’s very revealing!

52144 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Cheezilla, #117 of 1595 🔗

The Guardian, and ‘Tory Source’. Who are UKIP?

52256 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #118 of 1595 🔗

It might not need much to make the ‘lots of unease’ come out in the open.

Odd to see UKIP going along with the Guardian.

52354 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to TJN, #119 of 1595 🔗

They all meet round the back somewhere.

53063 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to TJN, 1, #120 of 1595 🔗

They will do as they are told – and that will be anything to keep the narrative going while the regulatory and enforcing measures are put in place such that nothing can move without attracting penalty.
I do not see national politics playing any role excepting to give over power to a vertically regulated global dictate at granular or local level. But if more political sideshow is required we can always go to war or suffer a bio attack.
Now I may be wrong – I would like to be wrong – but the controlling ‘class’ has committed to this ‘reset’ for generations as the basis for retaining ‘control’ even to the extent of managing collapse of the world economy and engineering of society as a system if bio-technocratic control – or perhaps lab rats.
There is no humanity in those who sacrifice it to eradicate their pet hates – be that nationalism, capitalism, human viruses – whatever. Hate drives a blind agenda as self-righteous exceptionalism – and so does not see its own destructive intent or act as destructive – but as necessary or simply collateral damage. Ted Heath talked of how politicins can be ‘persuaded’ by – “you know – the usual means” – and way before the Internet, Hoover ensured he had ‘dirt’ or leverage over anyone of influence. Boris and chums – on both ‘sides’ of the House are HOLLOW. The essence of group-think is hollow!
resistance to the temptation to deceit is to hang on to and align in whatever quality or consciousness you can live and give and share in – rather than mask in seeming to receive from a deep state of dissociated fragmentation .

51640 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Scotty87, 12, #121 of 1595 🔗

I really really hope you’re right in this Scotty . It currently feels like we’re going backwards not forwards and any light at the end of the tunnel is being covered up again.

51663 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to ambwozere, 5, #122 of 1595 🔗

The light at the end of the tunnel is actually the tail exhaust from a nuclear missile heading in our direction.

51748 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to IanE, #123 of 1595 🔗

I hope that’s not how you feel! lol

51649 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Scotty87, 14, #124 of 1595 🔗

Sorry Scotty, I can’t share your optimism.
I’ve just wasted an hour skimming the comments under the Allison Pearson and Philip Johnston articles in the DT. The overwhelming majority are “wear a mask, it’s s minor inconvenience, it’s your civic duty”. I despair!
I fear that the many silent sceptics will do the bare minimum to conform, shop as little as possible and mainly online, thereby failing to get a key element of the economy (the High Street) back in its feet.

51659 ▶▶▶ John Lilburne, replying to BTLnewbie, 7, #125 of 1595 🔗

I agree. It’s always tricky using online comments as a barometer, but if the pushback doesn’t come from those with a Telegraph login, then it’s not going to come from anywhere. I think may favourite comment has been “just do as your told”.

51966 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to John Lilburne, #126 of 1595 🔗

The genuine telegraph readers struggling to keep their jobs feed their family probably will struggle to stand out against an army of up to 20,000 full time information warfare agents – the 77th brigade – funded by the same people who are loosing everything as a result of having information warfare waged against them by the British army.

51667 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #127 of 1595 🔗

The top comments are rather more hopeful, but still!!!

51746 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #128 of 1595 🔗

For feel8ngs of dispair getting out to the real world and seeking brief conversations with ramdom people is a good thing. Comments are a cincentration of views. I am finding ample views as I go about that people are at least questioning through to full on where to we march. Obviously many are sucked in by fear too.

To help with dispair a polite repectful few words can help.

51824 ▶▶▶ Willow, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #129 of 1595 🔗

The government has a huge army of propagandists and behavioural psychologists poisoning the well of online discourse. You can spot them at work on Twitter very easily since they often all use the same phrases. Like leaving lights on during the blitz was used by hundreds of these nudge accounts on Twitter. The Telegraph comments have seen some powerful truths spoken so it’s not surprising it would be targeted. Especially as Johnson’s resignation is being openly called for. Johnson and Cummings have a strange echo chamber around them. Mostly middle aged women with a crush I think. These aren’t Conservatives, they are proBrexit but they are hard-line authoritarians. Pro big government, pro extreme punishment. Maybe they aren’t real people at all. Either way, I don’t doubt their views mirror those of their heroes and that is frankly terrifying. Leave comments on the Telegraph but don’t engage with the muzzle zealots. They aren’t worth the bother. The resistance is rising.

52063 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Willow, 2, #130 of 1595 🔗

I would not mind ‘engaging’ with the muzzle zealots….in a boxing ring!

52171 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Willow, #131 of 1595 🔗

I agree. Interestingly, if you ask if they’re trolls they often disappear – no doubt to return under a different pseudonym.

The main thing is not to clog up the comments section by interacting with trolls, unless it’s very early in a spat and you can get some hard evidence in there that hopefully will be spotted by a non-troll.

52044 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to BTLnewbie, #132 of 1595 🔗

Well maybe the resulting economic disaster then will finish Johnson. Whilst the DT has been the best of a terrible bunch as far as the lockdown has been concerned most of the older Tory Telegraph voters are middle class bedwetters on secured pensions and who differ little from Guardian readers on this issue. I know some people like that myself but lets just say relations have been somewhat strained of late! If their smug pensions end up collapsing I will not be offering any sympathy thats for sure.

52147 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #133 of 1595 🔗

So many of those sound the same that I’m not convinced they aren’t mostly trolls – some of those names are well known to be.

There are loads of anti-muzzle commentators posting evidence against.

All we can do is keep up the commenting. At least it gives us a public voice and provides a viewpoint other than the propaganda.

51652 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Scotty87, 17, #134 of 1595 🔗

I already hate this government with a passion

52068 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #135 of 1595 🔗

Its the worse government of my lifetime…by a country mile…nothing else comes close. And I voted for the bastards!

52696 ▶▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to They dont like it up 'em, 1, #136 of 1595 🔗

You only have yourself to blame then.

Bloody fools the lot of you.

54113 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to John Smith, #137 of 1595 🔗

My only defence is the other 2 were worse! Yes I know I should have spoiled the ballot and will in future but its sad all we had was liblabcon.

53085 ▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Dan Clarke, #138 of 1595 🔗

What government? I cant see any real governance going on. Why hate the crisis actors who dare not move off script?
But phases of a multi-generational mission creep are oversees under different frontmen or women.
The ‘governing’ is being effected by huge leverages of finance – applied to globally orchestrated regulatory structures brought in on the back of fomented or hijacked movements, issues, crusades or philanthropic projects.
Feeling what you feel is self-honesty – but if you stay in hate you will poison yourself and the tyrants work is done for them by your own ‘hand’.

The shit is hitting the fan – albeit the fan has been unplugged and is being retargeted to point away from those who own all the bases. IE – all arenas of influence and control. No one wants the hate pain of loss that comes with being the target of blame and so the manipulation of the mind or narrative is the first base of any coup. Take the radio and tv and media tell them its all a done deal – tell them anything that undermines their ability to question or challenge, and everything that induces them to consider compliance.

There must be a LOT of people who are ‘on side’ with this global coup in specifically leveraged sympathies. They may not see a global power grab – but some other ‘future’ that promises to save us from xyz.

51671 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Scotty87, 8, #139 of 1595 🔗

Things will only kick off when the enormous job losses become evident

51781 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nic, 5, #140 of 1595 🔗

They need to be public sector losses they’re enjoying the furlough too much.

51862 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #141 of 1595 🔗

They will avoid those, as their Common Purpose power-base in largely employed there.

51687 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Scotty87, 18, #142 of 1595 🔗

I do hope so I feel very very low after the latest fear about winter Covid deaths and mask wearing. Partly my despair is at never being allowed to visit my elderly father who lives in a care home. How can they ever feel safe with this heightened fear. Another part of my despair is that when can it possibly be safe to stop wearing face coverings? We will need to wear them until next spring at least according to the winter deaths modelling. I don’t think I can cope with the continued levels of isolation and separation. Surely it is in humane. Sorry to be negative, very low today.

51792 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to wendy, 5, #143 of 1595 🔗

My husbands mother hasnt seen her family since Feb. My brother in law was due to see her the day before they locked down Leicester again! I don’t blame you for feeling low I think this is totally cruel and humane.

52119 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to wendy, 2, #144 of 1595 🔗

They want you to feel low sadly.

52668 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to They dont like it up 'em, #145 of 1595 🔗

And it’s working…

51722 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Scotty87, 7, #146 of 1595 🔗

I hope you’re right. I has occurred to me at what level of degradation/humiliation people would submit to before they finally break.

51881 ▶▶ djc, replying to Scotty87, 7, #147 of 1595 🔗

If in a hole stop digging: I think they hope for a ‘second wave’ to justify it all, so instead of doing what they should months ago —own up, apologise, we panicked, sorry— they just keep ramping it up.

Stepp’d in so far that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o’er”

52181 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to djc, 8, #148 of 1595 🔗

Months ago, they only needed to provide some fudged stats to prove lockdown was successful and we could all go back to work and school, well done!

For some reason they have produced lots of fudged stats to deliberately prolong the lockdown, to kill the high street and huge sectors of the economy. I can’t believe that’s merely because one lie begets many more.

They have a huge and very successful propaganda machine at their disposal. Arse-covering would never have been a problem.

52360 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cheezilla, #149 of 1595 🔗

They are not just killing the high street!

52163 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Scotty87, 1, #150 of 1595 🔗

Very well said!

52338 ▶▶ John B, replying to Scotty87, 2, #151 of 1595 🔗

But what is happening in the UK is not unique. It is being repeated throughout Europe and parts of the USA. Some of it is copy-cat, group-think. UK masks everywhere 24 July, France 01 August. Actually I think France announced first, then UK Govt thought it would get in first on implementation.

it is tempting to see a pattern, that this, like the climate ‘science’, is being managed globally.

51585 Doctor Y, replying to Doctor Y, 55, #152 of 1595 🔗

I can’t stop thinking about why I’m not dead…
So, I work with 16,000 colleagues in Leicester hospitals. For the first two weeks of Covid-19, we weren’t allowed to wear any masks unless our patient told us they were coughing or had a high temperature. Later, after many staff had been coughed on by patients who had lied, we were eventually allowed to wear masks for all patient care.
We didn’t wear masks with each other until 2 weeks ago though and although we tried to distance, we are human and therefore prone to gathering to talk and laugh. Definitely a lot less hugging and touching at work and even better hand hygiene but it’s rare for people to be 2 metres away.
Note our ventilation systems are terrible. Even many of our windows don’t open.
In total in our hospital, we’ve had under 2000 people admitted with or for covid-19. Of these, 450 ish have died, the rest recovered. We have 50 people currently inpatient.
Sadly ONE member of staff who was in his sixties and on sick leave with a serious chronic illness has died.
My point is, where are the other deaths and hospital admissions from our 16,000 staff? We didn’t have masks with each other or our asymptomatic patients. We haven’t been outside or in ventilated areas. We usually only distance to a metre due to practicalities.
I appreciate that we are all working age by definition and by the end of March, we had shielded vulnerable staff but still… if it’s airborne and so infectious, why are we still alive?!

51588 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Doctor Y, 3, #153 of 1595 🔗

Were many staff infected?

51589 ▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to Sally, 7, #154 of 1595 🔗

Some, but not many. I only know numbers in my own department. 4 or 5 doctors out of 100…

51592 ▶▶ james, replying to Doctor Y, 20, #155 of 1595 🔗

Had a couple of doctors from Leicester view my house a few times now since lock down eased. No distancing or silly ppe. I think they know the score

51650 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Doctor Y, 2, #156 of 1595 🔗

Was there any evidence of increased admissions to your hospitals following the “surge” in cases in Leicester which led to the recent lockdown?

52152 ▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #157 of 1595 🔗

No
Admissions and deaths have continued to fall.

51937 ▶▶ peter, replying to Doctor Y, -2, #158 of 1595 🔗

‘450 died from Covid’ – got some proof ‘doctor’?

52231 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to peter, 5, #159 of 1595 🔗

Why so aggressive? That’s not what was written.
Here it is:
… admitted with or for covid-19. Of these, 450 ish have died, …

52699 ▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to peter, -2, #160 of 1595 🔗

Well spotted.

Smell of kipper off this one is powerful.

52771 ▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to John Smith, 2, #161 of 1595 🔗

Peter and John Smith – he doesn’t say 450 died from Covid! Please re-read and maybe apologise? Same mistake people are making when reading and misinterpreting the daily death totals!

52606 ▶▶ djaustin, replying to Doctor Y, 1, #162 of 1595 🔗

PPE works and mortality in under 45’s is normally very low not increased greatly by COVID19. Now if you worked in a nursing home, things might be different.

52893 ▶▶▶ Doctor Y, replying to djaustin, 3, #163 of 1595 🔗

My point is that we didn’t have ppe for a long time. Also we are not all under 45. We are mostly under 65 but not all and many are obese / have other health problems of their own.

51586 annie, replying to annie, 30, #164 of 1595 🔗

It all comes down to enforcement.
If the police don’t enforce the gag, and the shops don’t enforce it, it’s dead.
If some shops enforce it, and others don’t, the enforcing shops are dead.
According to Janet S-P in the Mail, the unions are complaining. If that’s true, there is hope!
Masks are of the Devil. In my case I mean that quite literally. Let’s shame the devil, and all the zombie demons in their dirty nappies.

51703 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to annie, 4, #165 of 1595 🔗

The Karens will enforce it.

52235 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Alec in France, 3, #166 of 1595 🔗

You can ignore them!

52363 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cheezilla, #167 of 1595 🔗

Or hug them lol!

52234 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, 3, #168 of 1595 🔗

From the Grad:

Paddy Lillis, the general secretary of shopworkers union USDAW, said …. “We welcome the indication that shop workers will not be expected to enforce the wearing of face coverings,” he said. “They are already dealing with more abuse than normal and this could be another flashpoint.”

51590 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 26, #169 of 1595 🔗

Unfortunately, the experience in Scotland is that almost everyone will wear a muzzle, the social pressure to conform being so great no Police action is needed. It is becoming more and more apparent that Boris, Sturgeon and around 80% of the population are complete and utter cretins incapable of critical thinking. I fear that, until the unemployment rate goes through the stratosphere, the majority of the population will do anything the politicians tell them to keep “safe”.

51595 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Hammer Onats, 28, #170 of 1595 🔗

Quite agree; the conformity here is staggering.

I’ve noticed on my early morning walks, that passers by-walkers with and without dogs, runners and some cyclists are bare faced and friendly. We all smile and greet one another.

However, come shopping time,when the Coronafritters appear, the atmosphere changes rapidly: anxiety, suspicion, disapproving evasive glances, avoidance.

I’ll make an attempt to visit the greengrocer’s today, as the proprietors value custom and are friendly,despite wearing cloth gags over their faces.

To reiterate, my niece in London has a mask made for her by a friend, which she’s never washed. She’s perfectly well .

Tried to read the comments under Janet Street-Porter’s excellent article and had to give up, thoroughly demoralised by the group think: think isn’t appropriate; blind faith is.

This is the new replacement for religion: mass acceptance of unproven dodgy assertions underpinned by fear and compliance.

51654 ▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to Hammer Onats, 7, #171 of 1595 🔗

Yes, and don’t forget this winter we have the Shadow virus coming. You must be frightened of your shadow.

53191 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to PastImperfect, 1, #172 of 1595 🔗

‘The Shadow knows’…

52132 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Hammer Onats, #173 of 1595 🔗

Yes I think if the Govt told the population to wear cybermen suits to keep safe they would do. Mind you I used to love the cybermen on Doctor Who as a kid….and the ice warriors and sea devils. Doctor Who was great then…no woke shit…happy days!

52382 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Hammer Onats, 3, #174 of 1595 🔗

What makes you think unemployment will cause them to see the light? Many of the comments on twitter and elsewhere are along the lines of “Wear a mask so we can stop wearing masks sooner…”. When unemployment strikes, the last thing these people will think is that the lockdown and social distancing caused it. They’ll think that earlier lockdown and stricter measures would have helped the economy.

52557 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Hammer Onats, 5, #175 of 1595 🔗

Went as an experiment to the local Coop this afternoon to see what it was like. We live in Scotland, so this is the first time since last Friday when the became mandatory. Last week very few people wearing masks.

Today, neither my Dad or I were wearing masks on the grounds of disability, if anyone asks. We were the only ones in the place without masks. Even the shop assistants, who throughout have not been wearing masks, were wearing the things. Very sad to see, but Dad and I came out unscathed – until our next visit.

51594 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 18, #176 of 1595 🔗

What has happened to our Parliament, who have we elected? They are becoming the most draconian in the world, they have been easily bought for a long time but this is getting out of control. There are hardly any voices singing out of tune. My MP asked me ‘why I was against this temporary measure’

51615 ▶▶ matt, replying to Dan Clarke, 12, #177 of 1595 🔗

Can I suggest you reply to ask, if it is temporary, where is the clarity on either the end date or the circumstances under which the measure will be lifted?

51616 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to matt, 9, #178 of 1595 🔗

Actually I already have asked that, also asked him if he was supporting Sir Desmond Swayne’s stance, no reply as yet. The DM this morning is hyping it up to the hilt, getting everyone so paranoid they will win just through that alone, its physiological warfare

52239 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #179 of 1595 🔗

The DM stinks to high heaven – always did!

52369 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cheezilla, #180 of 1595 🔗

All the newspapers seem to share the same smell now lol…might as well just make them one and call it Pravda.

51661 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Dan Clarke, 12, #181 of 1595 🔗

We no longer seem to live in a Parliamentary democracy, but in a State governed by fiat law.
From Simon Dolan’s letter to MPs:
” legal mandating of face masks is just another dictatorial move adding to the 91, out of 102 coronavirus-related statutory instruments which have been passed without Parliamentary debate.”

51838 ▶▶▶ Willow, replying to BTLnewbie, 5, #182 of 1595 🔗

134 and counting

https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk/publications/data/coronavirus-statutory-instruments-dashboard#total-coronavirus-sis

Anybody who thinks we still live in a Parliamentary democracy at this point is deluded.

52680 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Willow, 1, #183 of 1595 🔗

Anybody who thinks we still live in a Parliamentary democracy at this point is deluded

I knew we didn’t even before this clusterf**k…

51672 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #184 of 1595 🔗

Wow, you are lucky to even get a reply!

51812 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to IanE, 4, #185 of 1595 🔗

Could we start a movement where if asked about a face mask just say ‘I Can’t Breathe’

51888 ▶▶▶▶ Catherine, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #186 of 1595 🔗

I agree, that’s what I am planning to do. Or “I have breathing issues” I.e I want to breathe.

52238 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #187 of 1595 🔗

What Parliament?

51596 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #188 of 1595 🔗

Spotted yesterday at Waitrose:

Yorkshire Tea 80 bags was £2.99 now £1.99

Looks like the Great British Public has been voting with their wallets and feet.

51601 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #189 of 1595 🔗

Good. Waitrose – worst supermarket during this crapfest. A friend of mine was treated appallingly in there yesterday. He wanted to put multiple items through the self-scanning machine; he asked the functionary who was in attendance for some help – his reply: “Please can you stand away from me”

51603 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 8, #190 of 1595 🔗

That’s appalling, your friend should complain because I would. I wouldn’t even waste my time complaining to the Duty Manager and go straight to Head Office instead.

Admittedly I’ve not had any problems with Waitrose during this crapfest.

51604 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #191 of 1595 🔗

I had a pretty awful experience there a few weeks ago. Complained to head office, got a sneery reply from a double-barrelled type informing me that I should have gone to the Duty Manager. I pointed out that it was very difficult to have a conversation (and one I didn’t want others to hear) at 2 metres apart. Never heard back. Sadly, we use Waitrose for various items for our shop. Having a real re-think about that.

Glad your Waitrose is more polite. The little Hitlers here are loving every sodding minute of this.

51611 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 6, #192 of 1595 🔗

Bad that even Head Office was awful. They should really be worried given that John Lewis is struggling and they can be next.

I have been fortunate that the three Waitrose branches I’ve been to are OK, will go to the one near my work today to see how I get on.

51620 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #193 of 1595 🔗

Bart, there’s an element of schadenfreude in this for me. When Waitrose brought in their free coffee promotion (“it’s what our customers want”), it decimated my filter coffee sales. Amusingly, they didn’t predict a) how popular it would be (even though it tastes like crap to anyone who knows anything about coffee) and b) they hadn’t reckoned on their customers abusing it. It cost them an absolute fortune and hit their profits. Waitrose are no better than the other big supermarkets. Forcing out small businesses with their cafes and in-house florists and dry cleaning. I’m glad they’re getting a bit of what they did to us smaller businesses because they deserve it.

51631 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 8, #194 of 1595 🔗

Agree about their coffee – its crap and they love to virtue signal about it by taking away the disposable cups. Of course now its all moot as because of this crisis they’ve had to stop their free coffee offer.

Glad that you are getting some justice out of this. We little people have to stick together to fight this madness.

51930 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to kh1485, 4, #195 of 1595 🔗

They’re worse even. They see local delis and artisan outlets as competition and try to win that trade by stocking the products that they stock.

51614 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to kh1485, 8, #196 of 1595 🔗

Stopped going to our Waitrose as they are the same, now doing click and collect from Sainsburys, in and out in 2 minutes

52148 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to kh1485, #197 of 1595 🔗

Just boycott them…any companies that are woke or bedwetting will never get my money if I can help it,

52145 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to kh1485, #198 of 1595 🔗

Who wants to be ripped off there anyway?

51645 ▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to Bart Simpson, 16, #199 of 1595 🔗

Staff at Waitrose are a nightmare, always have been. They’ve been made “partners” in the business (for some miniscule reward) and they imagine this makes them all mini entrepreneurs who are superior to the plebs they have to serve. Some even parade in the store in smart suits, doing nothing.

Yesterday I was officiously told to stand on the markings at the checkout. I replied that they will no doubt return to being glad of my custom when this is all over so it will pay to be polite. Her face said “doesn’t compute”.

51656 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ross Hendry, 4, #200 of 1595 🔗

Again I would complain. I’m going to the Waitrose near my work today after 4 months, so let’s see. I have been fortunate with three other branches so far so will it be a continuation of the lucky streak or not.

51660 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Ross Hendry, 14, #201 of 1595 🔗

Tesco have taken all their markings away

51675 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #202 of 1595 🔗

Yes – it will be interesting to see how their much more relaxed and friendly (at least in the store I use) approach goes come 24th July.

51705 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ross Hendry, 6, #203 of 1595 🔗

Sounds exactly like the branch here. Though one bit of good news, the formidable ahem, older lady who basically runs the place and was forbidden from not only returning to work but actually doing her shopping there, is back now.

51957 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 3, #204 of 1595 🔗

Our local Waitrose is very low key. The only grief I’ve ever had there has been from other customers.

(and I’ve never been tempted by their coffee … 🙂 ).

52263 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 2, #205 of 1595 🔗

My son noticed early on that mask wearing seemed to weaponise the trolleys of his local Waitrose customers. He often complained that the few mask-wearers seemed totally oblivious of other customers.

I suspect that interesting times await!

52251 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ross Hendry, 3, #206 of 1595 🔗

I’d have been inclined to let her checkout all my shopping, then walk away without paying, leaving her to uncheck everything and have it put back on the shelves.

I used to do all my shopping at a big local Sainsbury’s because they had stuff I couldn’t get anywhere else. Once they started to replace the checkout staff with robots, I became less enamoured and discovered a little Aldi just down the road from me.

Smiley, chatty staff even throughout lockdown. Altogether, a very pleasant and much quicker shopping experience.

It’s funny how much stuff I can’t get from Aldi but don’t miss in the least!

52379 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Ross Hendry, #207 of 1595 🔗

Yes the ‘partner’ idea is to make it resemble a worker co operative. Interestingly the more stalinist communists dislike worker co ops as they ‘elevate the particular above the general’. Maybe the old tankies had a point on that one!

51991 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #208 of 1595 🔗

No….. this is deflation. I have noticed this everywhere. Do you know what follows this?

52143 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to TyLean, #209 of 1595 🔗

Well usually Tylean ,consumers postpone their spending which plunges the economy into recession. Japan got stuck in this in the 1990s.

52140 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bart Simpson, #210 of 1595 🔗

Yes boycott the woke.

52291 ▶▶ claire, replying to Bart Simpson, #211 of 1595 🔗

Good – weren’t Yorkshire Tea calling everyone who didn’t follow BLM racists whose custom they didn’t want?

51597 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 3, #212 of 1595 🔗
52266 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to arfurmo, #213 of 1595 🔗

Aaargh! Gove really should do something about those trousers!

51600 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 32, #214 of 1595 🔗

The official police policy is that food shops should refuse entry to non face nappy wearers. The plan is to starve refuseniks into submission. It’s in the nature of refusenikism (no it’s a made up word) that some will never comply and die

Even in the Soviet gulags the prisoners were occasionally fed

Can Imperial College come up with a model to predict how many will die

As we descend further into this madness, my local A+E has decided to close

It serves 400,000 people. The press announcement declared we will only be able to attend there by appointment (no I’m really not making this up). The clever sods decided not to explain how you book an appointment (I want to book in for a heart attack next Tuesday)

After two hours of phone calls etc, I found the number to ring to book said appointment. Clever bunch you, you guessed right, it just rang and rang

Could Boris’s scientist predict how many this little jape will kill?

Ah, genocide under a Dictator, don’t you just love it

51613 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 13, #215 of 1595 🔗

Who’s clapping now?

51629 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cecil B, 5, #216 of 1595 🔗

Partly what this is about, the lack of clapping on 72nd NHS anniversary. The mob working out what’s really happened.

51699 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #217 of 1595 🔗

Yes! Keep that thought in mind! Yes, it was a contrived mess on the 72nd.

A street where the beeb cameras were and a hospital helipad of nurses and that was it. Keep that in mind – how they built it up, trailed it and swept past it.

52389 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #218 of 1595 🔗

Of what significance is a 72nd birthday? What a joke.

52387 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cecil B, #219 of 1595 🔗

I never did…pure North Korea.

51677 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Cecil B, 2, #220 of 1595 🔗

Ah, they will just come back with Starkey’s ‘How can it be genocide when there are so many of these damn plebs still out there’!

52274 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, #221 of 1595 🔗

Can you post us a link please.

53206 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cecil B, #222 of 1595 🔗

A tsunami of stupidity.

51607 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 32, #223 of 1595 🔗

Went to Central London yesterday to do a few errands and to paraphrase Michael Jackson, its bad, its bad and you know it.

Oxford Street – slightly more traffic but buses mostly only had five passengers or less, one that sped past me was even empty! People milling about and there’s virtually no anti-social distancing. Hardly anyone going inside the shops, no queues in Primark or Sports Direct.

Argyll Street (Liberty area) and Regent Street – the same despite the windows advertising sales of up to 70% off. A few tried to entice me to come in by asking “can I help you?” I would say “no thanks” and walk away. There was a queue outside the Apple Store but not as large as during the first day of reopening, saw them turn away a woman not wearing a muzzle despite her saying that she had COPD. Appalling.

Covent Garden – again virtually empty. A few saddos queuing outside Apple Store.

If this is the state of the High Street now, the mandatory muzzling come 24 July will be another nail in the coffin of Central London and other High Streets up and down the country.

Boris and co, you have been warned.

51750 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Bart Simpson, #224 of 1595 🔗

Bart – how did you travel in?

51765 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Fiat, 7, #225 of 1595 🔗

Underground. I live in NW London and I have an exemption badge so have not been wearing a muzzle.

51768 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, 21, #226 of 1595 🔗

Interesting nod to Michael Jackson, he wore a mask once for no reason and we all thought he was fucking nuts.

52813 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, #227 of 1595 🔗

Indeed we did but in this instance one of his songs was too good not to quote 🙂

52283 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #228 of 1595 🔗

Yikes! This was yesterday and they were already demanding muzzles?!

52816 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #229 of 1595 🔗

Funny how the muzzle wearing was announced yesterday evening after my trip. Obviously no-one in the government has gone shopping and see for themselves that antisocial distancing has been a disaster for the high street and this muzzle wearing will only hasten their demise.

52395 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bart Simpson, #230 of 1595 🔗

Seems like they really want armegeddon.

51610 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 37, #231 of 1595 🔗

Here’s a thought.

We all know mask-wearers aren’t being civic-minded. The revolting old woman who put her hand over her mouth while motoring past me on her mobility whatsit a few weeks ago wasn’t thinking of me; the couple who theatrically crossed the road to get away from me yesterday weren’t thinking of me. They’re doing it to protect themselves or to virtue-signal. As I’ve said before, I don’t for one minute blame an elderly person for wearing a mask, as they’ve been terrified into doing so and probably forced into it by their adult children.

But what really intrigues me, and coming at this as someone who owns a cafe, is this: Yesterday the mask count was up dramatically. People who had come into my shop for the past few weeks without a mask, have now started wearing them. So, if they are doing it to protect *me* (we all know they’re not) why do they leave the napkin that they have wiped their mouths on for me to clear away? Protect me? I don’t think so.

51617 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 14, #232 of 1595 🔗

You would have thought they would have taken the napkin away with them to chuck it in the bin would you? If they were so obsessed about protection they would do so.

However I have learned that joined up thinking isn’t many people’s strongest suit.

51621 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to kh1485, 17, #233 of 1595 🔗

To ‘protect you’ is one of the biggest virtue signalling cons the media have come out with to make people feel obliged, ask most people and they say, so I dont get covid

51622 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #234 of 1595 🔗

I know but, boy, has it worked.

51632 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to kh1485, 6, #235 of 1595 🔗

Its those who think reality shows are real, they will be our downfall

51679 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #236 of 1595 🔗

They are all centre stage of their own reality show, their 15 minutes of fame…..’day 102, Boris has voted, today’s task is for everyone to wear a mask and hop on one leg every Wednesday’.

They can’t wait for the next bush tucker trial or to have ant & Dec walk on.

53207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stefarm, #237 of 1595 🔗

Perhaps a new Ministry of Silly Walks? Masked, of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLp7zodUiI

51643 ▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 12, #238 of 1595 🔗

Take your filthy rotten stinking bio hazard masks home with you sign required?

51691 ▶▶ fiery, replying to kh1485, 12, #239 of 1595 🔗

I’m feeling increasingly irritated by the number of discarded disposable masks I’m finding. In the left leaning liberal area where I live I’m surrounded by the vocal self righteous who loudly disapprove of non mask wearers but go strangely quiet when I comment about the excess litter.

51737 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to fiery, 5, #240 of 1595 🔗

I know one who constantly bleats about the environment but is also fantatical about mask wearing “to protect others” as she constantly says. However when I pointed out that masks be it of the disposalble or the cloth kind are equally environmentally unfriendly, nowt a peep from her.

52399 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to fiery, #241 of 1595 🔗

Sounds like a good time to move…unless you like cringing dinner parties where free speech is banned.

51789 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 8, #242 of 1595 🔗

Have you considered bio hazard signs and a bio hazard bin for dirty masks? This might make them sit up and take notice to consider they are walking about with a germ factory stuck to their face, I bet nobody would wear a snotty hanky over their face.

51798 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to stefarm, 6, #243 of 1595 🔗

Reckon my 6 year old would quite happily if I didn’t stop him.

51818 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 5, #244 of 1595 🔗

Ha ha. Just asked a mask-wearing customer who she’s wearing it for. Answer “myself”

52405 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to kh1485, #245 of 1595 🔗

Well there is a surprise.

51880 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 3, #246 of 1595 🔗

Or, a Bio Hazard surcharge? Got to claw back my losses somehow!

52293 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, #247 of 1595 🔗

Double edged sword that one. Reinforces the message that scary germs are around.

53208 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, #248 of 1595 🔗

Our intestines are full of scary germs. They help with digestion and other bodily functions.

51943 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to kh1485, 4, #249 of 1595 🔗

Try withdrawing napkins on infection control grounds, or insisting they take them away. (I’m being facetious really. You don’t need more trade barriers)

51612 Julian, replying to Julian, 11, #250 of 1595 🔗

The logic of mask wearing is something like this: you may be a carrier but have no symptoms. The virus will always be around, because even when a vaccine is found this won’t be 100% effective. The virus is deadly, so almost any action possible must be taken to combat the spread, even if it saves just one life. So I see no end to masks, forever.

Granted the muzzle zealots will be fine with that, but while they are numerous I can’t believe they are in a majority. I think those who are going along with this to be helpful, as the next phase of flatten the curve, will be pretty disappointed when they begin to realise it’s probably forever.

It may be a good argument to use, with some. How long are you happy to mask up for, given that it will be as a minimum anywhere indoors.

51680 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 11, #251 of 1595 🔗

If you are asymptomatic, you are NOT coughing and sneezing so you will not be forcing out large numbers of covid-laden aerosol!

51783 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to IanE, 3, #252 of 1595 🔗

The plebs are failing to understand this, probably because MSM are not telling them.

53004 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to IanE, #253 of 1595 🔗

Covid-laden aerosol is a good description of Boris. Is he really so dumb that despite having had covid and unfortunately surviving he thinks wearing that ridiculous mask helps anyone?

52218 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Julian, 4, #254 of 1595 🔗

It is not deadly, not from the WW numbers. It is infectious but not deadly that is why it was downgraded in March

51618 Will, replying to Will, 6, #255 of 1595 🔗

I hate to depress everyone but the latest Imperial offering creates the perfect fair accompli for a “successful lockdown” in the autumn at the slightest sign of a rise in “infections” anywhere in Europe. The government have their ducks in a row to claim “success” whether they don’t lock down again, “it was the face nappies what won it”, or they do, “it was the lockdown what won it”. That there won’t be a second wave of the cough is now immaterial, the government can take credit for beating it anyway.

51623 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Will, 4, #256 of 1595 🔗

Is it really all about jabbing us, all of this physiological warfare?

51628 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #257 of 1595 🔗

Yes!

51683 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Gillian, 3, #258 of 1595 🔗

No, I don’t think so; I am with Orwell when he wrote that the purpose of power is power!

51626 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 3, #259 of 1595 🔗

I know there is lots of mask wearing in Europe, but I don’t know exactly how widespread it is. I imagine there’s not much in Sweden, and possibly in some of the more central and eastern countries (Hungary, Czech Republic). They’ll need to explain to people how it is that those countries survive the winter without carnage (assuming they do) – if of course anyone here is paying attention.

51630 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Julian, 5, #260 of 1595 🔗

So in NZ (winter), got relatives there, they are living as normal, even been to theatre. No masks, nothing

51642 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #261 of 1595 🔗

They are carrying on as normal but have closed their borders and will have to keep them closed until there is a vaccine which could be never.

51674 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Will, #262 of 1595 🔗

Yes, although people are coming in still but quarantine is forced for 2 weeks, they had 4 ‘escape’ last week. But closed borders and normal life for the people sounds like bliss

51831 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Trish, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #263 of 1595 🔗

I can assure you it’s not. But I’m in the minority I think. Most people here in NZ smugly think we are doing so well. But it’s a false sense of bliss. Only achievable by keeping us cut off from the rest of the world. Very hard for those of us with family overseas. If it continues like this airlines will just stop flying here, and then what? And this state of “bliss” is costing us millions to maintain, both in terms of lost tourism and forced quarantine of returning citizens. No one seems to be asking our (NZ) government about whether this money would save more lives by being spent on other health issues.

51638 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Julian, 9, #264 of 1595 🔗

Unfortunately, Julian, people have been so consumed by the propaganda about Sweden that defending their policies is akin to holocaust denial. I bought Private Eye, out of interest, the other day and there was not a single piece, anywhere that questioned the woke lockdown orthodoxy. Sadly Hislop has carried on his disgraceful editorial prejudices.

51676 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 2, #265 of 1595 🔗

Anecdotally a lot of people I speak to think that there has been carnage in Sweden. It needs to be hammered into people until they start listening.

52411 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Will, #266 of 1595 🔗

Ask for a refund.

51639 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 3, #267 of 1595 🔗

Macron is currently doing tge mask preambke same as sturgeon and boris did. France will be masked within a week I expect. Macron just needs to add, “Zoot Alors seat belts!” and they are there.

51619 steve, replying to steve, 7, #268 of 1595 🔗

The test used cannot tell the difference between CV19 and any other Coronavirus INCLUDING the common cold. From the US CDC

“If you test positive
A positive test result shows you may have antibodies from an infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. However, there is a chance a positive result means that you have antibodies from an infection with a virus from the same family of viruses (called coronaviruses), such as the one that causes the common cold.“

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/testing/serology-overview.html

51690 ▶▶ guy153, replying to steve, 3, #269 of 1595 🔗

That doesn’t mean it “cannot tell the difference”. There is a chance that you will test positive not having had Covid but it’s only about a 0.05% chance. Nothing in life is perfect but tests can still be useful.

The chances that you test negative for antibodies but have still had Covid are much higher– probably at least 50% if not more.

52009 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to guy153, 3, #270 of 1595 🔗

Sorry but That’s not correct No one has confirmed what the % +\- %is.

The testing is utter nonsense.
Multiple tests on same people giving opposite results.

Australian health authority said they cannot tell live /dead virus fragments. So they can’t tell if you have it now or had a CV (whether 19 strain or common cold)
If one person is tested 5 times. That’s 5 new tests for the stats but out of those 5 tests you will get one positive.

The volume of testing now is so high if you only have a 1% false positive that’s 1000 a day testing positive. Its statistical nonsense by a government who have fcked up so badly they are trying to dig/bluff their way out!

52483 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to steve, #271 of 1595 🔗

The live/dead fragments issue is for PCR testing not antibody testing. The PCR test is to tell if you have Covid now. It’s close to 100% specific (but less if you include recently recovered people who will have virus fragments lying around as you say) but the sensitivity is not so great (more like 70% or 80%).

The antibody tests tell you if you have had Covid in the last few months. These are the ones that CDC article is talking about. They’re usually about 90% specific and 90% sensitive or so.

The exact result depends on the test kit and what the threshold value is. Set it too low and you get false positives, but too high and you get more false negatives. Most studies using these validate the manufacturer figures themselves.

Your last point is exactly right. If prevalence is very low, the specificity of the test becomes very important. This is starting to be the case for PCR testing in places like the UK now– the test needs to be better than 99.97% specific for the latest ONS Covid-19 Infection Survey results to have actually found anything. But 99% specific would be fine and only result in small errors if a lot of people still had the thing you were looking for.

51625 Cambridge N, replying to Cambridge N, 13, #272 of 1595 🔗

A Karen on the door at a hardware chain yesterday instructed me to ‘wait there for me’. Then later ‘In you go now’. Call me Mr Sensitive, but I didn’t like her tone. She asked another customer ‘How are we today?’. Reminds me of Greg on Masterchef with his ‘Off you go’. Is Karen a primary school classroom assistant moonlighting while on furlough?

51653 ▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to Cambridge N, 4, #273 of 1595 🔗

Officious shop assistants are one of the worst aspects of this lockdown. Plus there’s nothing that drives me more nuts than being asked to do something “for me” by the females of the species.

51700 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ross Hendry, 7, #274 of 1595 🔗

Am always tempted to give the Fascist salute to these customer service assistants (and I speak as one who works in customer service in the heritage sector)

51627 steve, replying to steve, 4, #275 of 1595 🔗
51670 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to steve, 1, #276 of 1595 🔗

Laughable!

51698 ▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #277 of 1595 🔗

It brings back childhood memories of Protect & Survive ‘advice’ in the 1980’s: ‘When you here the air attack warning hide under the table you have draped in blankets.’ Same level of moronic thinking

51760 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Strange Days, 6, #278 of 1595 🔗

I remember that! We also had to take off an internal door and put it against an internal wall at an exact angle (use a protractor) and pile cushions against it. All in the space of the 3 minute warning, The inner core or refuge. Oh and order 28 pints of milk from the milkman (When The Wind Blows)

52014 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #279 of 1595 🔗

Germolene ! Don’t forget the Germolene …

52321 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve, 1, #280 of 1595 🔗

How to wear: The ear loops fit over your ears.
Well I never!

51633 steve, replying to steve, 7, #281 of 1595 🔗

Fiction:

The lockdown is still on and guidelines must be followed

Law:

Unreported by the media, quietly at 00:01am on 4th July the government revoked the lockdown restrictions in almost entirety and replaced with a “No. 2” set by the same title but far reduced. Since 4th July, a list of businesses required to close remains but has been shortened. Otherwise, the only general restriction remaining in England is not to gather in groups of more than 30, increasing from 6 previously.

http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/lockdown-laws-in-england-have-been-revoked/

51655 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to steve, #282 of 1595 🔗

Oh? Interesting. Got link, will repost elsewhere.

51662 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #283 of 1595 🔗

Several good articles on there for businesses.

My guess is the latest Boris horseshit mask nonsense is more of the same. A statement with no law behind it.

http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/risk-assessments-an-important-chink-in-the-lockdown-armour/

51668 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to steve, 1, #284 of 1595 🔗

Masks will be law. Already are on public transport.

51732 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to Julian, 7, #285 of 1595 🔗

Laws made by referring to a law that says they can make up any law they want without any scrutiny which had zero reading / discussion before it was rammed though in a day.

The parallels with North Korea is very disturbing.

51857 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Trish, replying to steve, #286 of 1595 🔗

And NZ. They have done that here too.

51718 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to steve, 6, #287 of 1595 🔗

So are masks advisory only? The government claimed schools closure was only advisory but we wouldn’t have known that but for Simon Dolan.

51725 ▶▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #288 of 1595 🔗

I thought they were making the masks thing law under the Public Health act rather than the Coronavirus Act.

51758 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to ambwozere, 7, #289 of 1595 🔗

Well if it is done under the Public Health Act, hopefully this will hang Hancock out to dry, hoisted by his own pink tie. He needs to go, now.

51777 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to steve, #290 of 1595 🔗

I thought the same about Scotland. Mandatory coverings do have legislation here. Published on the morning of the first day – about 10 hours after coming into effect afaik.

52332 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve, #291 of 1595 🔗

I wonder if the backbench MPs know all this.

Come to think of it, I wonder if half the Cabinet know this!

51635 PastImperfect, 5, #292 of 1595 🔗

Yesterday I had occasion to visit my GP’s office and found the warm, welcoming ambiance replaced with a detached, distanced reception laced with, perhaps, the overtone of fear.
I was sure that, today, Toby would have been excoriating the Government on its gagging order on NHS staff (Surrey Consultant and other sources) that highlights the frailty of the covid narrative. I wonder if he still thinks this debacle is still just a government cock up.

51641 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 8, #293 of 1595 🔗

At the start of this nonsense who gave the order to transfer patients from hospitals to care homes, killing 20,000 people?

What advice did that person receive before making the decision?

If they were told of the risks and went ahead anyway this is prima facie evidence of manslaughter

Best perhaps to keep the facemask pot boiling

51648 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Cecil B, 5, #294 of 1595 🔗

Exactly, panic= deep****, deflection

51664 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #295 of 1595 🔗

The law suits have already stated naming Hancock

51678 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to steve, 1, #296 of 1595 🔗

Good, there are a few who have stayed right in the background, Raab for instance ready to move in when he is dumped, and hopefully Boris too. Cant see them wanting the economy to hit the bottom while they watch

51647 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #297 of 1595 🔗

We need more people with a Voice to change the narrative. The left wing media, our Politicians in this country have got away with too much for too long they consume everyone with their view, the silent majority have to got to speak up and be heard.

51665 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #298 of 1595 🔗

What we’re lacking currently are some big names around which to start to form a movement – rebel MPs threatening to form a new party in Parliament – something that cannot be ignored. Not much sign of it so far, hopefully some are privately plotting and will lose patience shortly. Parliament is going into recess soon, not that they’ve done much, so the govt will have free rein this summer.

We’re not a silent majority, we’re a minority. The majority are either lockdown zealots, frightened out of their wits, or just plain lazy and don’t care.

51694 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 4, #299 of 1595 🔗

Yes, like him or loathe him, we need someone with a bit of a following and charisma like Farage. His views on the Lockdown are however somewhat unclear!

51696 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Dan Clarke, #300 of 1595 🔗

Left Wing Media? Like the DT and what is has become? And the BBC being the official government cheer leader?

51716 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to hotrod, 2, #301 of 1595 🔗

This government are Blairites, all have been since Thatcher went and the arch enemy of Britain became PM

52977 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dan Clarke, #302 of 1595 🔗

BLiar has definitely become that Hitler person who we should all strive to kill in infancy if we ever get to go back in time.

51673 Ethelred the Unready, 7, #303 of 1595 🔗

See a new clenched-fist-salute statue has unofficially appeared and replaced Colston in Brizzle. Munchucklebutty could hardly contain her excitement. Presumably the Council will be removing it without delay? No, thought not (can you imagine the fuss if say Footy Lads dragged it into the docks?) The usual double standards of the Left

51685 Cbird, replying to Cbird, 18, #304 of 1595 🔗

From the DT – where did Hancock get these figures about shop worker deaths?:

“Mr Johnson has faced a backlash from his MPs and ministers over the decision to force people to wear masks in shops, and last night a row broke out between retailers and Matt Hancock over a claim by the Health Secretary that deaths among shop staff had been “disproportionately” high.

Mr Hancock told the Commons that Covid deaths among male sales and retail assistants were 75 per cent higher than the average, and 60 per cent for female staff, but Archie Norman, the Marks & Spencer chairman, said the claim was incorrect and “will make it less likely that people feel comfortable being in shops in the short term”.”

51709 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cbird, 10, #305 of 1595 🔗

Hancock has to go now!

51723 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cbird, 7, #306 of 1595 🔗

Glad someone’s called him out on this.

51726 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #307 of 1595 🔗

Agree as anecdotal evidence has suggested otherwise.

51738 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Cbird, 8, #308 of 1595 🔗

As biker said in the stores he knows of, no one has caught it. In the 3 stores members of my family work in it’s the same. Not one case.

51761 ▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to smileymiley, 2, #309 of 1595 🔗

No one in my local Sainsbury’s has caught it.

51688 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #311 of 1595 🔗

I’m still bothered by Hancock’s assertion that shop workers are 75% more likely to die than the gen pop. I’m sure this must be wrong. Can anyone direct me to the numbers, or do the calculation themselves? I’m suspicious that he might actually mean they’re 75% AS likely to die, i.e 25% LESS likely to die, than anyone else, thus proving that shops are actually safer than anywhere else.

If wrong, we need to get the message out to the mainstream, he shouldn’t be allowed to get away with such blatant lies especially as that statistic was part of his reasoning for mandating masks. And people might start to question what they’re told a bit more.

Even if they actually are 75% more likely to die, by which I assume he means they have 175% the risk of death of anyone else, 75% of a small number is still a small number (even if he did think 75% sounded like an impressively big percentage). So if the overall risk of death is, say, 0.5%, a shop workers risk would only rise up to around 0.8%. Hardly justification for compulsory masking I would say!

51701 ▶▶ IanE, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #312 of 1595 🔗

Of course the numbers of deaths occurring now are so slow that even at +75% this would probably mean something like 0.01 dying per day!

51704 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to A. Contrarian, 18, #313 of 1595 🔗

They’re making it up as they go along. Mask wearing is a nonsense when the virus is dying out and they’re having to test people in order to find it! No this is a serious attack on our Rights. Whats next Mandatory Vaccination? The fact many people cannot see the route this is taking, they’re blind to the consequences of accepting these draconian rules.

51707 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #314 of 1595 🔗

Havent read this anywhere else, msm dont seem to making a thing of it, maybe too extreme even for them

51720 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dan Clarke, #315 of 1595 🔗

That’s good, perhaps someone more intelligent realised his mistake and it got hushed up.

51721 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #316 of 1595 🔗

Simon Dolan put this on Twitter this morning re shop workers having covid-19. Turns out very few have had it.

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1283300870780854273?s=20

51764 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #317 of 1595 🔗

AC, I had a quick look here. It’s a bit impenetrable, split into ‘major’ and ‘minor’ occupations, although you could edit it together for analysis if you could be arsed.
In the major groups, shop workers have lower deaths than any other, so how can they be *any* percent higher?
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales

51774 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #318 of 1595 🔗

Thanks, that’s really helpful. He should be sacked on the spot.

PS I’m currently re-reading Guards! Guards!

51800 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #319 of 1595 🔗

Join The Watch, and let’s get rid of the Patrician!

51816 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #320 of 1595 🔗

I always thought that the Patrician was an interesting insight into Terry Pratchett’s political philosophy. He comes across as a left of centre democrat in almost everything else, but the Patrician is a Machiavellian philosopher-king, never above being cruel and vindictive, but he rarely intervenes mostly content to let Ankh Morpok run itself as a cheerful anarchy. And it’s clear that this is the best possible way to govern the city.

Off topic, but just a thought.

51822 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to matt, 4, #321 of 1595 🔗

Our ‘patrician’ needs a visit from the character that speaks ALL IN CAPITALS 🙂

52413 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #322 of 1595 🔗

There are an awful lot of parallels to the current situation, although I can’t help thinking that I’d rather be living in Ankh-Morpork governed by a fire-breathing dragon, than under Hancock’s control.

51790 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #323 of 1595 🔗

I posted about this yesterday, Hancock is technically correct:
Male working age death rate per 100K of working age population=19
Male Shopworkers. =34.2per 100K, i.e 175% of 19;
43 actual deaths ,’with’ Cov19;

Female death rate=9.7
F shopworkers 15.7, i.e. 162% of 9.7
actual deaths 64

But the absolute numbers are small, probably vanishingly small if those whose sole cause of death (no comorbidities) were known. An example of how when numbers are small, even a small increase looks scary!
Archie Norman, head of M&S, said only 3 of their 78K employees had died.

51820 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bruno, 1, #324 of 1595 🔗

It’ all a bit strained, isn’t it? All that really matters is your last line. And that’s my concrete experience. But they can say and do what they want.
Imagine the MSM reporting that 1300 people are dying every day, every year, as standard – would the sheep be horrified?

51856 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bruno, 6, #325 of 1595 🔗

“Archie Norman, head of M&S, said only 3 of their 78K employees had died.”

And my guess is that they almost certainly all had serious pre-existing health issues.

51949 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Bruno, #326 of 1595 🔗

Thank you Sylvie, this is a helpful summary.
I wish people should stop using percentages on small numbers.
So the data says that there were just over 15 extra deaths per 100k for male shop workers, compared to those who weren’t working in shops. It’s not statistically clear.

52509 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Bruno, #328 of 1595 🔗

Thanks Sylvie, I worded that badly. I was attempting to say that a difference of 15 in 100,000 does not seem statistically significant enough to conclude that working in shops is far more risky and worthy of special measures (which might not work anyway).

51767 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #329 of 1595 🔗

When my misses comes home, there is a 100% increase in the number of people in the house! Not only that, but the population is then *200* percent of what it was!!
It’s all true.

51778 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sam Vimes, #330 of 1595 🔗

But don’t those big numbers sound impressive?

51839 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #331 of 1595 🔗

sounds like propaganda, he is getting desperate. His big control plan is failing and the lies are getting bigger

51689 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 67, #332 of 1595 🔗

I finally cancelled my Conservative party membership, along with a strongly-worded email to CCHQ. Feel sorry for the poor sod who will have to read it who likely doesn’t care but I sincerely hope that CCHQ is getting quite a few of these emails and it will create an overall mood that the party is starting to haemorrhage its support. That’s the one place we can really hurt them – at the ballot box.

It was the mandatory masks which was the final straw. I tried to hold on as long as possible because I know I’m an asset to the party (early twenties, female) but every time I opened my wallet and saw my membership card, I actually felt a sense of shame that I was supporting a government that has perpetuated such a monstrous fraud on the British people and who are Conservative in name only (CINO). They are a government which no longer align with my principles, what with enormous public spending and some of the most draconian laws ever enacted in peacetime. Enough is enough.

51692 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Poppy, 9, #333 of 1595 🔗

Well done Poppy!

51711 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Poppy, 16, #334 of 1595 🔗

Always, always stick to your principles. The Conservative party is winding up loads of people but they haven’t got the guts to cancel their membership…you’ve done it. Vote with your feet, and that applies to any and all things that displease you. Good move.

51713 ▶▶ matt, replying to Poppy, 15, #335 of 1595 🔗

The first election I could ever vote in was 1997. I voted conservative then and have done ever since, but I’ve never joined any party, because I’ve always believed that I couldn’t commit to any party I didn’t agree with 100%.

I wish I had joined the Conservative party though, so I could resign my membership now. Well done, Poppy.

52700 ▶▶▶ microdave, replying to matt, #336 of 1595 🔗

I wish I had joined the Conservative party though, so I could resign my membership now

I’m strongly tempted to join, specifically so that I can then cut my membership card up in front of them!

51728 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 9, #337 of 1595 🔗

Well done by sticking to your principles! From reading the news looks like you’re not alone.

51751 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Poppy, 10, #338 of 1595 🔗

Well done Poppy! I’m not a paid up member of the Party, but I have written to them and told them in no uncertain terms that this is the final straw of a lot of straws in the last few months, and that I will never vote for their Party again. Ever.

51846 ▶▶ jimmy, replying to Poppy, 6, #339 of 1595 🔗

Well done Poppy, I’m sure there are many more in the same boat as you. Have you considered joining the Libertarian Party UK? A lot of new members recently and now is a good time to align all free thinking libertarians together.

51854 ▶▶ John P, replying to Poppy, 6, #340 of 1595 🔗

You are not alone. A lot of angry former Conservative Party members have been showing photos of cut up membership cards this week on twitter.

51900 ▶▶ djc, replying to Poppy, 4, #341 of 1595 🔗

I was a party member in my youth, even helped with campaigning, but over the past thirty years it has become ever harder to vote for what had become the least worst option. Conservative? may as well have voted for Corbyn.

51913 ▶▶ James007, replying to Poppy, 6, #342 of 1595 🔗

Yes! Well done Poppy. I wonder if there are members who have worked for the party for years that feel the same way. I was a member until a couple of weeks into the lockdown.

It seems that the only power a member of the party really has is electing a new leader. I was disgruntled about the last leadership election, for various reasons and thought it was a stitch-up to ensure the right result. Despite the Hobson’s choice, I stuck with it. After being elected I supported Johnson, and was pleased when he won the general election.

However, perhaps the greatest power that a conservative party member has is to leave. When realizing that the party has no heart. Beneath the marketing, data science, slogans and the shiny exterior, there really is nothing remaining. Just the desire for power for its own sake. The party has forgotten its identity.

Let’s hope something far better comes along!

51989 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Poppy, 2, #343 of 1595 🔗

Good for you! Local associations should be holding their MPs to account. MPs should be holding the government to account. They are on the issue of Huawei. Why not on facemasks and other lunatic covid policies?

52255 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Poppy, 5, #344 of 1595 🔗

I am going to do the same. Was already thinking about it, but this is the last straw. I can’t look myself in the mirror and support a party that is wilfiully destroying the economy and people’s lives and implementing harmful policies deliberately to confuse the narrative and deflect from their own incompetence. Enough.

52416 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Chris Hume, 4, #345 of 1595 🔗

Do it – I also cut up the membership card with the same scissors I use to cut my toenails, that’s what I think of these tossers.

53764 ▶▶▶▶ Andy Barnes, replying to Poppy, #346 of 1595 🔗

well done Poppy. hope this becomes a trend. I voted brexit & was optimistic after the election, but I have never felt so let down by this useless bunch of career politicians. First the lockdown, then the feeble response to BLM, now face nappies. No better than Sadiq Khan..

52953 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Poppy, #347 of 1595 🔗

Very much understand Poppy and I must admit I was surprised to hear you were a member….they certainly do not deserve you. I am actually a former Labour Party member from the 1980s but regard Labour now as utterly beyond the pale. The last few decent Labour MPs like Frank Field and Kate Hoey have now departed. As for the Conservative Party they have clearly been CINO since 1990 being ruled by such figures of the Blairite Left such as John Major,David Cameron, Teresa May and now the ultimate CINO Boris Johnson. You have to go back to the 1980s to find any vestige of conservatism under Mrs Thatcher though even that was probably really neo liberalism rather than conservatism. However I am sure you would have found that much preferable to the present ghastly shower. I am currently reading her latest book ‘Stateside’ written in 1990. Whether you agree with her or not its hard to avoid,reading it,that she was a towering colossus compared with Johnson and his pitiful cabinet. As Peter Hitchens (no fan of Mrs Thatcher himself) says its like being ruled by teenagers. You are a much bigger loss to the Tory Party Poppy than they are to you!

53439 ▶▶ Tim, replying to Poppy, #348 of 1595 🔗

I share your frustrations (as it seems does Desmond Swayne MP) but you have to be in something to change something. 26 yrs in HM forces taught me whingeing and moaning on the sidelines achieves nothing. You can’t win every battle, but that is not an excuse for not to battle on. Throwing in the towel (thedarkhorse) is not “guts”. Tape your membership card back together, Poppy, you’re needed.

53842 ▶▶▶ Rob Cantrill, replying to Tim, #349 of 1595 🔗

I’ve just resigned my membership also, on the specfic issue of masks. I take the point about needing to be inside the tent, but we have no say on this issue and need the wonks to sit up and take the voters seriously.

51697 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #350 of 1595 🔗

Hancock has just told Sky news that masks will NOT be recommended for offices

51708 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Dan Clarke, 11, #351 of 1595 🔗

He neglected to add the words “this week”

51710 ▶▶ matt, replying to Dan Clarke, 13, #352 of 1595 🔗

As near as I can work out, if a cabinet minister says today that something will not happen, tomorrow it will

51712 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to matt, 5, #353 of 1595 🔗

Hancock is digging one big hole and spouting even bigger lies to cover it up

51717 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, #354 of 1595 🔗

So true.

51706 TJN, replying to TJN, 22, #355 of 1595 🔗

Hancock was just on the Today programme saying that we know CV spreads much less easily outside than indoors – hence the risk of a ‘second spike’ in the winter when we spend more time indoors.

Just as well then that the TJN family made a point of spending as much time as we could out and about last March-April when he was insisting that we all ‘stay inside’.

Prat.

51714 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to TJN, 10, #356 of 1595 🔗

Why did they only allow us outside once a day back in April, then?

51730 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to A. Contrarian, #357 of 1595 🔗

The are absolute Fools, trying to appeal to their masters?

51933 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Dan Clarke, -5, #358 of 1595 🔗

“Their masters?”

Please provide names and evidence

I get really tired of these sorts of assertions.

51940 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to John P, 3, #359 of 1595 🔗

I’m assuming from groups like WHO, who seem to have been pressuring governments around the world and much of the messages from what we hear are vague and incorrect. Why are you tired, if you are tired dont respond, dont listen, dont read

51731 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to TJN, 4, #360 of 1595 🔗

Yet no journalist is pulling him up on his blatant lies ,I’ve never despised a politician as much as I do this bar steward … although back in the day William Hague as a 16yr old at the Tory party conference with Thatch was irritating 😄

51733 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to tonyspurs, 2, #361 of 1595 🔗

And Hague certainly has not improved with age!

52962 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to IanE, #362 of 1595 🔗

Now he is a CINO!

51715 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #363 of 1595 🔗

Looks like Huawei has infiltrated your post, mate…

51741 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #364 of 1595 🔗

😂 😂

51982 ▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to thedarkhorse, #365 of 1595 🔗

Yep. My fault the hyper link didn’t show on the paste until the post.

51719 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 3, #366 of 1595 🔗

Thanks to everyone who voted in my poll yesterday to find out how many people know someone who has had COVID-19.

If anyone else would like to vote the link to the poll is below, and you do not have to register to vote in the poll as the site accepts posts from guests and registered users. All responses are very much appreciated, thanks in advance:

https://lockdownsceptics.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=54

51727 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to JohnB, 4, #367 of 1595 🔗

Reading the comments seem to point to the fact that even those who know someone who had had it, it is like flu for the majority. Not enough to tank economies, rather have a few days in bed

51743 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #368 of 1595 🔗

Yes, you’re right it does seem like for most it was like flu, took them out for a few weeks, and then they recovered. For anyone that knew someone that has died from/with it, then they appear to have had a major illness that was really the cause of the death, and they just tested positive for COVID-19 whilst in hospital.

51828 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to JohnB, 2, #369 of 1595 🔗

It might have been useful to have been able to say how many people you knew who had it. I know a single son of a friend (who did have it in a big way).
An example of how the media are prepared to exaggerate, from our local paper:

A WAR veteran who celebrated turning 100-years-old has defied the odds by beating coronavirus.
Before his birthday, Thomas tested positive for Covid-19 but said he didn’t even realise he had it and displayed no symptoms.

51844 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to davews, 2, #370 of 1595 🔗

If you’re not sick, how is not dying ‘defying the odds’?

Admittedly, living to 100 is in itself defying the odds.

51849 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 1, #371 of 1595 🔗

Winning the lottery is defying the odds even though somebody winning at some point is virtually 100% guaranteed.

Strange how numbers work.

51850 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 6, #372 of 1595 🔗

He’s not defying the odds.

Most people over 80 who get coronavirus survive it. I read that it was 85% early on in March.

Coronavirus is not a death sentence. At the most it just seems to finish off people who are already very sick.

51855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 1, #373 of 1595 🔗

My point is that he wasn’t sick, regardless of what viruses he happened to have kicking around in his system. Did they test him for all the others possible viruses too? No, they didn’t, because if you’re not sick, you’re not sick, so nobody cares what viruses you might have.

51979 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to John P, #374 of 1595 🔗

Even then I don’t think it’s the virus killing them off, it’s more likely that they’ve been moved to care homes and medical professionals will not visit to treat them, or in hospitals they are seen are low priority as their other conditions are killing them anyway and the won’t survive, so they have made the decision to treat patients with a greater chance of survival.

51762 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to JohnB, 6, #375 of 1595 🔗

Me and the OH had a nasty lurgy late November both felt rough, I lost my voice and had a chesty cough for about 2 weeks which is not the norm for me. I still went to work and the gym and didn’t pass it on to the best of my knowledge although 3 or 4 of us in work all had it at the same time, 1 colleague’s daughter had quite a bad chest infection with it. I also had another lurgy 2 weeks before lockdown which again was a very chesty cough and coughing up phlegm, I think I possibly picked something up at an event at the corn exchange in Edinburgh.

All in all not enough to bring the nation to its knees and no worse than other seasonal lurgies.

51782 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 4, #376 of 1595 🔗

I’ve had one person report that their auntie and uncle were laid low with a mystery bug when they returned from a holiday in China last August, with the auntie being taking around 6 weeks to recover. So, it’s possible it’s been around in the UK for more than a year now.

51945 ▶▶ Catherine, replying to JohnB, 6, #377 of 1595 🔗

Last year I was very ill with flu (2nd time in my life) It was called flu. If I had had this year, would have been called CV19. Does anyone know anyone who has had flu this year? Where are all the flu cases? They have mysteriously disappeared!

52027 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to JohnB, #378 of 1595 🔗

Done

51724 FrankiiB, 9, #379 of 1595 🔗

Facemasks and disability discrimination

From the start of the lockdown, issues were raised about UK law and disability discrimination.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/03/26/uk-covid-19-law-puts-rights-people-disabilities-risk

These have arisen again in Scotland due to signage about facemasks in shops.
https://www.lawscot.org.uk/news-and-events/legal-news/disability-law-centre-protests-unclear-face-mask-signs/

I think we could keep an eye on shops and point out that any signs should include that there are exemptions.

51734 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 11, #380 of 1595 🔗

If folk would find it helpful, here’s a summary :

It is claimed facemasks kept Japan and Korea rates low

However
Facemasks were never mandatory in Japan
The correlation may be coincidental, there is no evidence it is causational
When Germany introduced compulsory facemasks it made no difference, cases rose at the same rate
Differences in testing numbers and data mean it is difficult to compare Japan with the UK in any way except excess mortality (Japan tested very few during the most infectious phase of the wave)
Japan has an obesity rate of 3%, the lowest of any of the major advanced countries, compared to 27% in the UK, one of the highest. This may have a much more significant impact on cases and excess mortality.

I have summarised this because some of the trolls keep quoting Japan as evidence for facemasks. Hope it helps.

51752 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to FrankiiB, 11, #381 of 1595 🔗

I know Tokyo quite well, having spent considerable time there in the 1980s and 1990s. I also visited Seoul in the late 1990s. The thing with both is that the pollution is terrible – and I compare that with central London at its worst (I used to live close to Vauxhall Bridge Road). That is why many people wear masks. However, unlike the Chinese, the Japanese are very aware of their own personal space. If you get too close to a Japanese they will put their hands out at the level of their face to signal to you that you are invading their space. This natural (cultural) social distancing, in my view, goes a long way to explain why there has been less spread in Japan. Mask wearing is a red herring.

51871 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #382 of 1595 🔗

Nowadays, pollution may be less, but Seoul’s underground stations contain full supplies against a nuclear attack, N Korea being a relatively short way away. What are the relative odds, one wonders?

52843 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #383 of 1595 🔗

Face mask wearing in Japan has also come with problems of its own and nothing to do with Covid 19.A Japanese psychiatrist recently noticed a phenomenon of socially awkward and maladjusted young people mostly men who are unable to communicate with another human being especially women and most of this has been linked to mask wearing and headphones.

52876 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bart Simpson, #384 of 1595 🔗

And in S Korea they also cite a ferociously competitive education system, the expectation that the man will have bought a flat before getting married and the cost thereof, and so it goes on. I see no evidence that intermittent use of face masks has much to do with social awkwardness in the young, male or female.

51754 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #385 of 1595 🔗

Yes they wear face masks but I heard it was for pollution levels which are high. This is where discrepancies occur it’s like comparing apples to pears, different cultures, different group think, different politics health problems etc. . We are not all the same and therefore shouldn’t blindly follow what others do without first assessing the consequences.

51740 George Dance, replying to George Dance, #386 of 1595 🔗

Can anyone give me Mr. Young’s email address? I wanted to enter Mr. Young’s competition, but I can’t use the link to his email addy, because email’s not set up on my browser. (I keep that clutter on yahoo.)

51744 IanE, 19, #389 of 1595 🔗

I am reminded once again of a quote from William Pitt the Younger, from a speech he gave
in the House of Commons on the 18th November of 1783:

‘Necessity is the plea for every breach of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.’

We have a lot of tyrants – and we are not short of slaves to groupthink.

51753 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 8, #390 of 1595 🔗

I was after listening to Mr. Hancock on Radio 4 this morn. I’m jolly glad to hear him speak of “face coverings” rather than a masks, because yesterday I invested in a face vizor which looks ridiculous on me as it also necessitates my wearing a pair of lensless plastic specs to hold them in place. Ten euros!

I imagine many a Mr. Plod and many a Mr. and Mrs. Busybody will think it not good enough but will they deign to challenge me? Evenso, I still feel to don it is an act of surrender. Only fearlessness will defeat the bind we’re in.

51770 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #391 of 1595 🔗

Photo please!

51931 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Alec in France, #392 of 1595 🔗

I’m sorry, but I don’t know how to upload a photo!

52207 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ned of the Hills, #393 of 1595 🔗

As long as the size is small enough, just paste it into a Reply box.

51757 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 63, #394 of 1595 🔗

One of my Irish relatives is a lockdown fan. He didn’t know my views until this morning. Having bitten my tongue in the interests of familial diplomacy as he sent a few cartoons taking the mickey out of sceptics and praising the wearing of masks, I decided to let him ‘have it’ as it were. I thought I’d share my response as it pretty much encapsulated how I really feel and I hope that many visitors to this site will empathise with my – at times – slightly intemperate language. apologies for length but it was written via WhatsApp and in a fairly cross mood!

“Sorry Patrick, I completely disagree with the whole Covid 19 industry and it’s myths and lies. I am seriously angry about the entire thing. My kids schooling has been totally disrupted, my business has been hammered and the value of savings has been erode. Meanwhile cancer patients, stroke and heart attack victims and people with anxiety and other mental illnesses are ignored and are suffering and dying. We will have unemployment here equal to the entire adult population of Ireland when the furlough scheme ends, businesses destroyed, huge increase in domestic and child abuse and all the other ills of poverty will increase. In the third world there will be a sharp rise in extreme poverty, starvation and all the associated ills. All for what? To try and prevent the spread of one particular virus whose average victim is over 80 years old, has almost zero impact on healthy people and has zero impact on kids, and most people who ‘get it’ dont even know it. This has been a disastrous failure of policy and Government. Destroying economies and millions of livelihoods and lives in the process is not a responsible response to a healthcare issue and has been proven to be absolute nonsense. There is not one piece of credible evidence that I have seen that ‘lockdown’ has done anything but cause destruction. As a very telling example look at the stats for New Jersey and look at Texas or Florida, or any non-lockdown states. Look at Belarus and look at Sweden. Compare to Italy, Spain, UK or even Ireland. There is a constant stream of hyperbole, exaggeration and nonsense that has succeeded in cowering entire populations into believing that they are at imminent risk of death from the air around them and by touching door handles or being within 2 metres of others. Masks another piece of the nonsensical jigsaw. It is a ruse to hide this -and other Government’s incompetence in discharging sick, elderly frail people from hospitals into care homes. That is what caused so many deaths. The general health population has more risk of dying in a car crash,. Kids have more risk of being struck by lightning. As I say, disgusting and utterly immoral. Words cannot describe my feelings towrads the likes of Matt Hancock and Piers Morgan and all of the utter failures in GGovernment and the media. There will be a reckoning and I look forward to seeing them and all the Covid Catastrophisers squirm when it comes. Rant over”

51763 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Chris Hume, 5, #395 of 1595 🔗

Excellent message, I’d love to see his response if he responds.

51826 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to ambwozere, 2, #396 of 1595 🔗

Nothing yet. I will let you know when (if) he does though.

52420 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to ambwozere, 7, #397 of 1595 🔗

He responded by saying ‘sorry to hear it’ I guess in relation to the personal bit, but didnt engage the argument at all. He is a nice guy and probably realises that it might cause more harm than good. I’m pleased he understands my position though. Many (not all of us) have probably shied away from telling people too openly of our views. I think this mask situation may well change that. I gave two barrels to my two fellow Directors in our morning Zoom today. Neither are zealots, but both are broadly supportive. They knew I was sceptical but they hadn’t seen me angry or animated before. The more people we challenge with facts, and dissenting views the better as far as I am concerned. This is the tipping point. We will win.

52976 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Chris Hume, #398 of 1595 🔗

I had all this with Brexit…I fully understood and respected the views of Remainers but found they were unable to reciprocate. All this seems like deja vu really…but what I find is that those who are loudest and most forthcoming with their own views are the ones who seems unable to accept anyone else’s. So I always give my view now in response…whatever the cost in family and friendship harmony. Why should I always be the one who has to bear the burden of silence?

51842 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #399 of 1595 🔗

Great post!

51865 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Chris Hume, 7, #400 of 1595 🔗

Seeing as Leo Varadkar came out last week and said the testing seriously overcounted cases, I wonder if the penny is starting to drop. Being Irish myself sadly we have a stubborn streak in us and can be sticklers for principle, once convinced. I mean the Irish Civil War shows that.

51884 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mhcp, #401 of 1595 🔗

Varadkar seems to have had a ‘good crisis’, from what my very close Irish friends tell me (and they did not vote for him). It helps that he is a doctor, perhaps, and also that his sister is a very senior doctor at Great Ormond Street?

52846 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #402 of 1595 🔗

Great reading. Thanks.

51759 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 3, #403 of 1595 🔗

This is quite interesting that Councils are holding back this data rather than identifying the exact areas where the breakout is occurring.

Covid Test Data Held Back From Publication Over Community Cohesion Concerns:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/coronavirus-testing-data-councils-government_uk_5f0de1bdc5b648c301f02d00

51786 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 3, #404 of 1595 🔗

‘Community cohesion’ tells you all you need to know.

51832 ▶▶ Will, replying to JohnB, 1, #405 of 1595 🔗

I am shocked, shocked to my core.

51766 Bella Donna, 4, #406 of 1595 🔗

I’m wondering if the face coverings is just to get us used to sharia law. Why are beards trimmed but women’s beauty salons face imprisonment (?) for beauty treatments. Remember the new divorce laws were passed recently, you literally only have to say I divorce thee! Yes I know it sounds crazy but we are living in a nightmare which is hard to understand. We know mandatory face masks are uneccessary so why have them?

51771 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 13, #407 of 1595 🔗

Yep, this is beginning to look a lot like climate change. Exactly the same strategies. Fear mongering at every corner. Censorship for the dissenters.

51840 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 5, #408 of 1595 🔗

Exactly the same types of ‘scientist’ in the driving seat, with the same types of models. Husband was involved in the climate debate right at the very start – he was hounded out!

51860 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 6, #409 of 1595 🔗

Like I said before, belief in man-made climate science is the gateway drug to Covid-19. Once you tacitly accept there may be measurable effect it’s the slippery slope. Even though the data in no way comes close to ever showing this. Nor is there a way to even test the hypothesis.

But a catch-all theory: cold = climate change, hot = climate change, snow = climate change, and large uncertainties are the mark of this deception.

Same as Covid-19.

51864 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mhcp, 1, #410 of 1595 🔗

You forgot to mention floods, hurricanes and bush fires!

51887 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to mhcp, 1, #411 of 1595 🔗

If one cannot test an explanation, it is not even a hypothesis.

51975 ▶▶ Catherine, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #412 of 1595 🔗

It’s all the same agenda. Control and biocide. The Gates Foundation et al is at root of bio passports (vaccination), cashless society linked to compliance (India), chemical and GM control of our food, and smart cities. The Green agenda has nothing to do with “saving the planet” – it is about control. Highly recommend a documentary called ‘Banking Nature’

52730 ▶▶ microdave, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #413 of 1595 🔗

Yep, this is beginning to look a lot like climate change

But with one subtle difference – as far as CC goes we are constantly told “The Science Is Settled”. Yet with Covid the science (conveniently) keeps evolving – hence the sudden requirement to wear masks now, even though both Dr Jenny Harries & Prof Jonathan Van Tam said back in March the grounds for mass public wearing were slim…

51773 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 13, #414 of 1595 🔗

A couple of days ago I mentioned that I had been told by an NHS employee about 45 people living in a house in Leicester who had all tested positive for COVID-19. This comment was shot down by Cheezilla and John Pretty on here, saying that it was impossible for 45 people to live in a house, and they asked me to remove the comment.

Well, it now appears that this was correct, Andrew Bridgen MP on Talk Radio yesterday, reported on this. He said that “ when COVID-19 testing door to door ,it was found that in one 3 bedroom house,there were over 40 adults living there .” It was Leicester East. He didn’t specify ethnicity, but did say that Keith Vaz used to be the MP for that constituency!

For anyone who would like to listen to his interview on Talk Radio where he discusses this, a link to it is below:

https://talkradio.co.uk/news/andrew-bridgen-criticises-failure-leicester-local-authorities-20071433509

51795 ▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnB, 4, #415 of 1595 🔗

Quite so – reminds me of the old joke, how do you get 45 ethnic individuals into a spare tyre – tell them it’s a flat.

52687 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to JohnB, 1, #416 of 1595 🔗

Having lived in the Kirklees area for nearly 20 years, this sort of thing is not uncommon. Since we’re in the mood for stirring the pot at the moment, here’s one for you all. In Kirklees, if you designate a room of your house as a prayer room, you are exempt from council tax.

52981 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to JohnB, 1, #417 of 1595 🔗

I think 2 people on here owe you an apology.

51775 Bill h, replying to Bill h, #418 of 1595 🔗

I decided to google 77th brigade as it crops up here and there in this imbroglio.

Immediately found this article from Wired a couple of years old….

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/inside-the-77th-brigade-britains-information-warfare-military

Chilling stuff

51980 ▶▶ John P, replying to Bill h, #419 of 1595 🔗

I thought everybody knew about that lot.

Tory MP Tobias Ellwood is a senior reservist officer in the outfit.

51794 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Awkward Git, #421 of 1595 🔗

He thought of the biggest number he could, and then doubled it.

51799 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #422 of 1595 🔗

He must have had help as it’s over 2.

I count on my fingers, I think he can only count hands so can’t get to double figures by himself.

51796 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #423 of 1595 🔗

This is the scariest number – the very first line of the very first section:

  • A total of 4,761 deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19) in the working age population (those aged 20 to 64 years) of England and Wales were registered between 9 March and 25 May 2020.

Yep, scary number accummulated over 10 weeks.

51813 ▶▶▶ Tone, replying to Awkward Git, #424 of 1595 🔗

Yup, scary but consider that more than 90% of these had comorbidities and it’s still only 10% of the normal rate of deaths from cancer.

51823 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #425 of 1595 🔗

AG, I have just gone through the ONS figures and there was 736 COVID-19 deaths in people aged 0-64 with no pre-existing conditions between March and June. Some of these would’ve had pre-existing conditions though but no autopsies are allowed so nothing can be found.

51859 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 3, #426 of 1595 🔗

No matter what age group you pick, whether the deaths are from or with covid-19, with or without pre-existing conditions (ONS is a bit vague on this point in the occupations publication) , start and end dates and so on as it does take a bit of rooting through various graphs and datasets to get matching info I still cannot see what all the panic is about.

Apart from not being a terminally frightened too scared to die sort of person I just don’t get it on those numbers.

Add quite a few more zeroes on the end and I may get a bit concerned and think a mask might be appropriate but I just can’t understand the logic if there is any.

Following orders to meet an agenda – yes but this farce based on the reasons being given?

Sorry, I must be too thick to understand as you see plenty of people around on the streets who apparently do so they must be a lot more intelligent than me.

51893 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #427 of 1595 🔗

Yeah, 736 in 92 days is very low, when if you say 50% will probably have had an underlying illness, then you’re down to around 370.

In comparison on average 5 healthy people die a day in car accidents, so during the same period 460 people were killed by cars.

51905 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #428 of 1595 🔗

Interesting item posted this morning on the reliable CEBM website :

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/an-update-on-ons-death-data-and-how-it-differs-to-phe-daily-updates/

It shows up the disparity between ONS and PHE data (PHE complies more with the Scary Fairy). They recommend using ONS data.

On the wider issue, the *only* data that is reliable is ‘all cause’ mortality, since any claim of any data set to show ‘Covid’ deaths is blown out of the water by definition.

The important aspect of ‘all cause’ mortality is that, even when the April spike is included in the time series, the season’s mortality *does not* show any extraordinary level when seen in a proper historical context.

https://hectordrummond.com/2020/07/10/rick-hayward-winter-spring-mortality-all-cause-1993-94-2019-2020-in-relation-to-covid-19/

The whole narrative has indeed been a fabrication

51819 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #429 of 1595 🔗

See my post yesterday and below. Hancock technically correct. However actual total shopworker deaths ‘with’ CV19 (along with other comorbidities) are male 43, female 64.

51785 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 11, #430 of 1595 🔗

On the TV this morning Handjob looked close to tears

Perhaps he knows the game is up and when the truth comes out he faces a long sentence

51788 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Cecil B, 1, #431 of 1595 🔗

His latest facial work also made him look even more of a nutjob than he used to!

51811 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to IanE, 1, #432 of 1595 🔗

Was he wearing a mask?

51804 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 5, #433 of 1595 🔗

I am very much afraid that’s wishful thinking. Why would the “game be up”? What forces are working for the truth to come out? The “truth” in any case is already out – it’s just that people are not taking it in, because they are lazy, stupid, uncurious or some combination thereof.

51810 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cecil B, #434 of 1595 🔗

I think someone should put him out of OUR misery!

51837 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cecil B, 3, #435 of 1595 🔗

Perhaps the little Hitler is surprised that his “flagship policy” is now coming under attack.

51872 ▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #436 of 1595 🔗

It is easy to imagine him in a Hugo Boss designer uniform, isn’t it? Only following orders, natch

51923 ▶▶ MDH, replying to Cecil B, 8, #437 of 1595 🔗

Good. He should be ashamed of himself. I hope he isn’t sleeping. I hope he is consumed with fear and remorse. His vanity and ambition have ruined the lives of millions. He is beneath pity.

52393 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #438 of 1595 🔗

How close to suicide? Really close? Do say yes.

51787 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #439 of 1595 🔗

In the DT:

Rules requiring members of the public to wear face masks in shops and on public transport could remain in place until next summer, Health Secretary Matt Hancock has admitted, as he warned they will be required for the “foreseeable future”.

Asked whether the rules may be in place into next year, Mr Hancock refused to rule it out, instead insisting that the UK needs to “see how we are doing on getting a vaccine”.

51801 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #440 of 1595 🔗

I am not sure where “next summer” comes from. There’s no logical endpoint to masks. If they are required now, they will always be required. The virus will never be eliminated, and even if a vaccine is found it will not be anything close to 100% effective.

51829 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Julian, 2, #441 of 1595 🔗

The ‘logical endpoint’ will come, it’ll just be an arbitrary point in time at which the government will decide that it can arse-cover no longer and has to face the music.

51833 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Poppy, 2, #442 of 1595 🔗

December 2024?

51886 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, #443 of 1595 🔗

I doubt the government will ever face the music over the panic and lockdown, and the other measures that are now in place. The next election will probably be won or lost on who promises what handouts, and whether people think the government handled the economy well, but the lockdown will be taken as a given.

52982 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Julian, #444 of 1595 🔗

All general elections are now just a handout give away contest with our own money.

51906 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #445 of 1595 🔗

If Trump wins the US election and brexit happens it’ll be Nov 4th 2020.

If either don’t happen it’s here for good.

51963 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Awkward Git, #446 of 1595 🔗

Insight!

51808 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #447 of 1595 🔗

It was always about vaccination from the very start linked to vaccine passports! I will refuse to have it.

52003 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #448 of 1595 🔗

See this:

https://www.theblogmire.com/psychologically-locked-down/

As Toby has pointed out in his latest post, the Ferguson model still dominates (remember who gives funding to ICL!) and this article adds more detail.

[Rob Slane is en evangelical Christian and I’ve struggled with some of his views at times but he pulls no punches in his political analysis.]

p.s. I’m so relieved to note that Toby has finally dropped the ‘silly Boris’ line!

51960 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to A. Contrarian, #449 of 1595 🔗

What if you don’t want to be vaccinated?

51984 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bugle, #450 of 1595 🔗

Indeed.

52743 ▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Bugle, 1, #451 of 1595 🔗

What if you don’t want to be vaccinated?

Then we’ll become “Ex Citizens” No proof of Vaccination? Then no access to all manner of services, shopping etc…

51791 matt, replying to matt, 2, #452 of 1595 🔗

Does anybody know where I can find the email address for letters to the editor in the DT? Have been poking around on their website and can’t see it.

I have a snappy little letter I just wrote, that I want to send in.

51803 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to IanE, #454 of 1595 🔗

Ta.

51807 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, #455 of 1595 🔗

Sent

51814 Dan Clarke, 7, #457 of 1595 🔗

Could we start a movement when asked about a face mask say ‘I Cant Breathe’

51815 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #458 of 1595 🔗

I think I get it now. Lockdown was a knee-jerk reaction to Fergoid’s 500,000 dead report. Masks are therefore a knee-jerk reaction to the “coincidental” appearance of Fergoid’s 120,000 dead this winter report. Is it as simple as that?

51834 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #459 of 1595 🔗

I think there is a deeper problem here – the CSO, who commissioned the ‘report’ used to work for GSK. It’s about vaccines, pure and simple in my opinion. The face masks just keep it going until the vaccine arrives, at least in their ideal world.

51882 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #460 of 1595 🔗

The masks also serve to cover up the lack of a second wave as we get back to “normal”.

51817 stewart, replying to stewart, 8, #461 of 1595 🔗

Can we stop referring to every death as a tragedy?

If someone dies young it can be considered a tragedy. But if an old person dies, this is not a tragedy. It’s life, even if what takes them away is the coronavirus.

My mother died a couple of year ago aged 77. She had cancer and succumbed to seasonal flu. It was an extremely sad moment for our family, but not a tragedy.

Death is a natural part of life and we need to snap out of this idea that every time someone dies something has gone wrong.

52157 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to stewart, 5, #462 of 1595 🔗

Agreed. I’ve reached an age where my death would definitely not be a tragedy.

My Mum died when she was 81, following a short illness. As she had wished, I prevented the inevitable resus attempt-a rather weighty nurse having dived onto on her chest.

I’ve had a living will for 30 years and I also have a DNR card.

What is tragic is the sheer number of potentially productive young lives which are being laid waste by this ridiculous lockdown and its control creep.

Shouty articles in the MSM and social media are driving hyperbole, accusatory blame campaigns and adding to the government’s cowardice.

We need to learn about death, its inevitability and the use of palliative, as opposed to heroic dramatic treatment where appropriate.

52878 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stewart, 2, #463 of 1595 🔗

Trouble is death is no longer such an omnipresent part of our life that society can’t comprehend it when someone passes on. In the past because deaths were so common, people simply mourned then got on with their lives.

I think there’s also the narcissistic view that because medicine has made so much progress with prolonging our lives and making once common diseases virtually rare many started to think that we could cheat death.

The hysterical response to this crisis is a result of the thinking above. As someone on You Tube has said that in our desire to stop death we are ending all life.

52984 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to stewart, #464 of 1595 🔗

Spot on Stewart.

51821 Midlands Sceptic, 2, #465 of 1595 🔗

Many thanks as ever Toby for your hard work.

I’ve created a post on the Lockdown Truth forum looking for some help with some studies cited by a friend of mine which appear to be strongly in support of the efficacy of face masks.

This is contrary to the statement many on this side make that there is no evidence on the efficacy of face masks at all.

I’m against them because I hate the idea of the government imposing such an authoritarian measure on the populace, I’d also like to have science on my side, but if I can’t debunk these I’ll have to concede the scientific point to him.

https://www.lockdowntruth.org/forum/general-discussions/help-needed-with-some-study-debunking

51827 HaylingDave, replying to HaylingDave, 37, #466 of 1595 🔗

Wow, what a surprise, the kids forced me into the front room to work and Jeremy Vine was left on the television in the background … I’ve never watched this show in my life, honest! So I was about to turn off, but the topic was a phone in: “OK to confront face mask flouters?”

I assumed this would be a pro-mask, BBC-like propaganda-filled fact-less scare-mongering tirade against non-mask wearers, but it was the opposite! All the panelists including Jeremy – the host – were of the opinion that a) they do NOT want to wear a mask in a shop, b) they wouldn’t confront someone anyway, and c) unconditionally, the government is acting without just cause!

The phone survey came back as 66% saying that they would *not* confront someone in a shop not wearing a mask, 33% would (obviously 🙂 ). And one of the panelists said she pitied the person who confronts her, if in that situation!

Furthermore, when callers phoned in and challenged the panelists on their non-mask wearing views, the panelists argued eloquently, calmly and with facts and figures, challenging the emotive arguments of the callers, and asking them to look at the studies!

Now I’m not saying that a 15 minute segment on Channel 5 at 9:40am is main stream media, but after the last few days, I needed a pick-me-up, however small it was, and it felt so good to hear (on television, not YouTube!), a common-sense, fact-based rebuttal to the dogmatic opinions of zero-risk zealots!

I just thought I’d share, given the tone of comments on here for the past few days!

Have a fab day (if possible!).

51835 ▶▶ John P, replying to HaylingDave, 5, #467 of 1595 🔗

Thank you, that’s encouraging news.

Please carry on … we all need to keep out spirits up in the face of the shit that is daily being thrown at us.

51836 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to HaylingDave, #468 of 1595 🔗

Jeremy Vine, albeit on a C5 show, went against his £500,000 masters’ party line?
Was your telly tuned right? 🙂

51843 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sam Vimes, #469 of 1595 🔗

His masters?

51845 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to John P, #470 of 1595 🔗

BBC.

51861 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #471 of 1595 🔗

Yes, I know who he works for.

I am challenging your cynical notion that he is a paid slave who is not permitted to think for himself.

Clearly that is not the case!

51879 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, #472 of 1595 🔗

I think there’s certainly going to be peer pressure, and probably a high-profile piece that was highly critical of the current narrative may attract a telling off or worse from the editor or producer. But maybe they are not explicitly told what to say – mainly because most of them don’t need to be.

51924 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, 1, #473 of 1595 🔗

I agree.

But the point is that there is clearly at least some room for dissent even at the BBC.

51852 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to HaylingDave, 2, #474 of 1595 🔗

Who were the panellists?

51858 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to HaylingDave, 4, #475 of 1595 🔗

I saw somebody on Twitter declare that they’d confront any non mask wearers.

My first thought was that he’d be one of those Isis people who shoots their own mother for a minor indiscretion.

51866 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #476 of 1595 🔗

Sadly, I am sure there are many who will be prepared to do this.

51876 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 4, #477 of 1595 🔗

True, though I do think one needs to consciously remind oneself that Twitter probably attracts some of the more extreme elements of society and isn’t representative.

51925 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, #478 of 1595 🔗

Agreed.

51956 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #479 of 1595 🔗

“I saw somebody on Twitter declare that they’d confront any non mask wearers.”

These guy’s never confront anyone unless they are behind their keyboard!

52991 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Nobody2020, #480 of 1595 🔗

They are very welcome to confront me lol.

51874 ▶▶ Julian, replying to HaylingDave, #481 of 1595 🔗

Thanks for sharing this – it’s heartening. I’ll certainly have a better day for having read this.

52388 ▶▶ annie, replying to HaylingDave, #482 of 1595 🔗

Thanks for that! A chink?

51847 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 15, #483 of 1595 🔗

Seeing as you mentioned Neil Ferguson’s model and its re-use:

There was an important nuance to a key point that I think wasn’t highlighted as much as it could be. It was when software engineers tore his model apart for not being validated and verified. The point was, as many commenters on GitHub stated, the model would never have got that far in the process.

It would have been heavily scrutinied, rewritten, retested etc.

What is inherent in these comments but should have been emphasised is that IF the model had reached production stage, and hence public use, the company would likely face CRIMINAL charges.

Volkswagen put a bit of software on their cars that triggered when the wheels were moving at speed but there was no wind (i.e. only possible in a lab). They did this to pass emission tests, tests whose standards by the way are arbitrary and driven by eco-loons beliefs in reducing emissions. You can see over the years how they have become more stringent.

One of the reason VW got hit bad is that they hadn’t declared the software in the build for the car. So they were claiming qualification of an application when they hadn’t declared everything on it. For safety this is a big no-no.

For it to be valid you would have to demonstrate that the software could not induce a catastrophic failure of the car. And since that is quite a ballache to do you wouldn’t bother adding the software in the first place.

In fact you could argue that a court case should be brought on that alone. Untested and hypothetical models are fine for theoretical science. They are WMD for use in the real world.

51853 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mhcp, 1, #484 of 1595 🔗

This is a very interesting comment. Thanks

51921 ▶▶ MRG, replying to mhcp, 5, #485 of 1595 🔗

It’s not just that the code was/is bad, the inputs are wrong.

Ferguson et al now claim (in the recent Academy of Medical Sciences report) an overall IFR of 1.1%: higher than the 0.9% in the March IC report that caused BoJo to panic..

OTHH, meta studies (e.g. John Ioannidis) suggest IFR is 0.25% overall.

The report says 70% infection rate required for herd immunity, whereas issues such as non-homogeneity of the population (the “R” of my 87 year-old mum who lives alone the massive “R” of versus super-spreaders like BoJo) bring it down to more like 25%.

Multiply 0.25% by 25% and you get 625 deaths per million, depending on how well you shield the vulnerable.

The UK didn’t shield well and so we’re near the top of the leader board. Germany shielded better I think and has only 109/million. Sweden didn’t lockdown but didn’t shield too well and stands on 548/million, with very few Covid deaths per day now. Most of Europe seems to have achieved herd immunity.

Forgot to mention: our Covid death figures are also inflated by fiddling!

Ferguson is a charlatan; I’m ashamed to be a graduate of Imperial College.

52176 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to MRG, 1, #486 of 1595 🔗

Indeed. I think the other key input was when the spread started. Imperial assumed a fairly late start, whereas the Oxford model assumed an earlier start. At the time, both sets of assumptions were arguably plausible – the real crimes I think are 1) Not investigating how different inputs affected the prediction 2) not revising those predictions once more information came to light (the Oxford model seems to me to explain much better the actual data we have seen around the world and 3) not doing a cost benefit analysis of lockdown vs. more or less do nothing and 4) not having an exit strategy.

52240 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to mhcp, 2, #487 of 1595 🔗

There is a broader question, and one that the climate change brigade need to answer, which is why are models not part of peer review?

I’m a software engineer (and no, I’m making an appear to my authority or competence) and have observed that code review is becoming increasingly integral to the industry. It doesn’t always spot bugs but it very much helps to keep people honest. Checking in lazy Friday afternoon code with the pub on your mind is a lot harder to get past your colleagues.

Yet, for some reason, science, which regards peer review as one of its essential pillars will not peer review the source code of the models? Ferguson may well know a lot (maybe) about viral epidomology and submit papers for peer review. This in no way proves that his models will be accurate.

Besides this, a model is engineering, not science. Bridge building is engineering. If we erect a bridge and it falls down, I don’t think we start off pondering whether newtonian physics is correct and state “we’re just following the science,” we question how the bridge was built. Similar to the millenium one in London where it was never taken into account that everyone would walk over in the same direction and rhythm in the numbers they did. It’s not that we know nothing about waves, it’s because it was never taken into account in the plans for the bridge.

If Ferguson’s model was a bridge, it would be one where he didn’t know how many people would use it, when they would use it, how they would use and put it up shoddily from left over materials from other bridges. And then it fell over.

I think I’ve stretched that analogy as far as it will go.

52761 ▶▶ microdave, replying to mhcp, #488 of 1595 🔗

They did this to pass emission tests, tests whose standards by the way are arbitrary and driven by eco-loons beliefs in reducing emissions

That has been going on for decades. Back in the mid 70’s, when my cars had SU carburettors, special needle profiles were introduced to make them run “weak” at about 56mph in 5th gear. This (obviously) made them drive like crap, with a great big flat spot, but was a method of getting round new EU inspired emission regulations, in pre-computer days…

51863 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #489 of 1595 🔗

Was Boris terrified into obedience with his ‘Covid’ scare?

51869 ▶▶ John P, replying to Dan Clarke, #490 of 1595 🔗

?

51870 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #491 of 1595 🔗

Wasn’t there an ongoing police investigation into his relationship with Ms Arcuri?

51936 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #492 of 1595 🔗

I don’t know but it felt very ‘coup’ like when he disappeared for 3 weeks at the start

51987 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Palmer, -3, #493 of 1595 🔗

Oh, is that his ghost or a hologram that’s wrecking the UK now? (rolls eyes)

52056 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to John P, 5, #494 of 1595 🔗

I said it felt like a coup.if you want to believe that a government that has restricted the right to worship,work marriage funerals.banned sex between consenting adults.restricted where and when we can travel.who we can visit and have in our own homes.need I go on.that feels very much like a coup against liberty and freedom.And they did this because they are thick?im rolling my eyes!

51868 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 15, #495 of 1595 🔗

Matt Hancock told the BBC this morning (15 July) that face masks are here for the foreseeable future, ie, the measure is permanent and will doubtless be extended to other areas besides public transport and shops.

This latest response to the virus shows (if there were any doubt) that the policy is being made on political grounds and that “the science” is nothing more than a rhetorical device designed to elicit compliance and justify censorship of dissent.

The responses to the virus are so obviously irrational, irresponsible and incompetent (when judged against the criterion of saving lives) that it is clear there are only two possible explanations for the policy responses One is that it is a case of collective madness. The other is that there is an ulterior motive. If it is the latter, a great many people are lying.

51873 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #496 of 1595 🔗

I think his comments on Sky are informative – perhaps he, himself, is suffering from some form of psychosis:

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-matt-hancock-worried-about-debilitating-long-term-impact-of-covid-19-12028821

Would explain a lot!

51952 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #497 of 1595 🔗

I think he’s suffering from megalomania.

51883 ▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #498 of 1595 🔗

“One is that it is a case of collective madness. The other is that there is an ulterior motive.”

No, I don’t think it’s either of these things. These people are thick. They have zero understanding of the psychological damage they are inflicting on the people of this country.

Believe me, they should, at the very least go to prison for a very long time.

For many years now there have been fears of a global pandemic. There have been a number of close calls. Swine flu, SARS, ebola. They came to nothing.

However, I am quite sure that plans were hatched in secret to deal with the possibility of a global pandemic. These plans are crude and pseudo-scientific. Hatched by half-wits in Whitehall no doubt. Similar exercises have, I have no doubt, been repeated by governments all over the globe.

The passing of the Coronavirus Act is the first stage in the implementation of these “contagion” plans. It is for two years and I am sure that this is the government’s intention.

52030 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to John P, 2, #499 of 1595 🔗

I’m with you on this. They are literal idiots whose education only succeeded in giving them the skills to confidently talk shit, and climb the greasy pole.

If this was a conspiracy of the darkest kind, one of these morons would have fucked it up epicly by now and incontrovertibly given away the game.

This formula has been repeated around most of the world because being a politician is now a career from leaving school, attracting the exact people who should never have power, and the electorate are quite happy to vote for political parties, rather than look into the psychopathic moron they are electing.

52045 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to John P, 3, #500 of 1595 🔗

You say they are doing this because they are “thick” and then go on to assert that they should be imprisoned for a long time. So in your opinion, being unintelligent is a crime. That is a rather eccentric opinion, to say the least. Yet your comment gets even weirder when you guess that plans were hatched to deal with a pandemic, which implies intelligence. And of course such plans were made – that is not a secret as you appear to think. Back in 2016 the NHS conducted Exercise Cygnus, which concluded that in the event of a pandemic, the NHS would be overwhelmed. The government decided to not increase NHS capacity, but instead drafted the legislation that became the Coronavirus Act 2020 and its associated regulations, which violated our rights and liberties and gave the government the power to do anything for ever (see especially Part 2 Section 90). And this too clearly evidences intelligence rather than stupidity. You explanation for the response to the virus is clearly, blatantly and obviously wrong. They are not thick.

52048 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Hayes, -1, #501 of 1595 🔗

Straw man argument.

Yes, I think they are both thick and negligent.

They stand for office and therefore they are responsible for their actions in office.

Prison at the very least.

You don’t have to be intelligent to stand for election. You only need £500 quid.

Even you could do it, Steve.

52095 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to John P, 1, #502 of 1595 🔗

I fail to see how any intelligent person could think that a close critique of an argument, proposition by proposition, could be characterised as a strawman.

52099 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Steve Hayes, -3, #503 of 1595 🔗

Will you drop it now please!

We have a different opinion on this. You’re not going to change my mind and I’m not going to change yours.

I’m not going to engage in any more of this with you.

52105 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to John P, 1, #504 of 1595 🔗

Is that because you are too “thick” to defend your stupid argument?

52996 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Steve Hayes, #505 of 1595 🔗

Now now chaps! We are all on the same side here.

51889 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #506 of 1595 🔗

We are being played by these idiots, who the day after they are shunted off elsewhere, sit in a cafe having coffee while babysitting (cameron) and May in Waitrose queue, they are nothing but we take notice just because they say we must

51895 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Dan Clarke, #507 of 1595 🔗

“we take notice just because they say we must”

we? Speak for yourself Dan.

52104 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to John P, #508 of 1595 🔗

Sorry John, meant that collectively or by the masses, personally I think of everything that comes out of their mouths as a lie until I discover otherwise.

51947 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #509 of 1595 🔗

So, better to resist from the outset and get it over with.

52111 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Steve Hayes, #510 of 1595 🔗

Thing is, Hancock probably wont be there for much longer and we know that new to the job, always want to have their own stance.

52595 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Steve Hayes, #511 of 1595 🔗

‘Foreseeable future’, exactly the same phrase as cranks the hedgehog. Univeral lanuage coming from the same place – not coincidence.

51875 RickH, replying to RickH, 8, #512 of 1595 🔗

I couldn’t get my breath … and it wasn’t Covid :

the report’s authors haven’t created their own model, but have relied on the notoriously flawed Imperial College model.”

Let’s not wrap it up. This is prima facie evidence of fabrication and distortion – i.e lying for political ends. Even a dumb burglar would wear gloves – but this bunch of clowns leave fingerprints everywhere.

If I was a serious epidemiologist or statistician, I’d be furious at this bunch of shills pretending to science.

51938 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RickH, 1, #513 of 1595 🔗

The problem is not Ferguson/ICL. They are merely using standard epidemiology models.

If something needs addressing it’s the field of epidemiology itself if their models are not fit for purpose.

However, if the purpose is to give a wholly unrealistic impression of catastrophe to allow for the most extreme preventative measures then arguably nothing needs to change.

51942 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #514 of 1595 🔗

Perhaps you do remember the unnecessary slaughter of livestock in 2000, largely due to Prof. Ferguson’s ‘models’? In a just world he would have been ignored thereafter and permanently.

52072 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bugle, 2, #515 of 1595 🔗

I certainly do. I am actually in a field right now where there was a totally unnecessary pyre of burning cattle.

51981 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #516 of 1595 🔗

Point taken, but Ferguson’s model is an additional layer in the GI>GO cycle.

51983 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #517 of 1595 🔗

The problem is not so much the epidemiology model itself, it is how Ferguson has coded it, ensuring garbage comes out. The same is true in the climate science arena where bits of knowledge and science are chosen and vast areas of the unknown are ignored as if irrelevant.

51877 MDH, replying to MDH, 16, #518 of 1595 🔗

I have good days and bad days. Yesterday was a good day. Today, not so much. Four years ago, a super new “improved” way of working (outsourcing to China) was introduced in my workplace. All the staff knew that it would result in calamitous drops in standards and extra work for us. Those behind the move simply stonewalled. They basically told us we were imagining things.

As a result, I had a breakdown and was signed off work for the first time in a 30-year career. I returned to work, soldiered on for a year, and then had the full monty meltdown – shaking with rage, tears, blood pressure through the roof. I walked out, never to return.

That’s how I feel most days now. I’m certain my health is suffering. I’ve done everything to keep mind and body together through this ordeal. Because that’s what it is.

I work in the media, and have done for 35 years. Anyone with any experience of a newsroom knows that the way a local newsdesk works is to identify a trending national story and look for the local angle.

Now extrapolate that globally and for a media that runs constantly and never sleeps. And here we are.

My only comfort is that, in the words of Mr John Lydon, “Anger is an energy”. And when that anger finds a focus, God help the governing classes in this country.

::

51910 ▶▶ RDJ, replying to MDH, 1, #519 of 1595 🔗

Hi, I’m really sorry to hear about your breakdown and your struggles. I‘m so bloody angry about all of this as it is just madness. Keep strong, I genuinely believe that people are slowly waking up and truth will win in the end. Love the John Lydon reference. Never mind the bollocks has never been more relevant

52042 ▶▶ TJN, replying to MDH, 2, #520 of 1595 🔗

Mr Lydon’s words come to me regularly nowadays.

‘Blind acceptance is a sign of fucking fools who stand in line’

‘Ah ha, ha. Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?’

I hope you feel better – plenty of reasons to be cheerful now, as with the nappies they’ve made a massive tactical mistake.

The anger is finding a definite focus. I reckon Johnson is toast, a dead man walking.

Things are going to get ugly though. The Brexit divisions will look quaint in comparison.

52067 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to MDH, 7, #521 of 1595 🔗

I hear you. I’ve had depression and anxiety for years and just when I thought I had it beaten …. along came this nightmare. So I too spend days wondering if it would be easier just to jump off the nearest high building, break down in tears, rant, rave, furiously angry one minute then just staring at the wall the next. But you’re not alone, you’re not mad, we all know the truth here. It’s tough but we can keep each other going through this.

52386 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, #522 of 1595 🔗

Well said.
Remember, the very fact that you are not zombified is a poke in their nasty little eye. Keep on poking.

52381 ▶▶ annie, replying to MDH, 1, #523 of 1595 🔗

Poor you.
Can you perhaps find a way of freelancing that will deliver you from this madhouse? Here’s wishing you all the best, whatever happens.

51885 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 17, #524 of 1595 🔗

Just called in to the Tesco Express by me. Asked if they will be doing anything to enforce the face nappy policy. They said absolutely not. It’s nothing to do with them and entirely up to the customers if they choose to wear them or not still.

52059 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Hubes, 2, #525 of 1595 🔗

This is what it boils down to. Police say it’s almost unenforceable. Retailers don’t want their staff to put themselves at risk by being the ones policing it; likely leaving them open to abuse, not to mention even MORE stress being placed on their shoulders. So who’s going to be responsible?

51890 guy153, replying to guy153, 18, #526 of 1595 🔗

Toby:

I would be wary of making too many arguments involving mosquitos and chain-link fences. Before long somebody from the University of the Bleeding Obvious will publish a peer-reviewed paper proving a bit of cloth can stop you gobbing on people at least a bit and that will be endlessly cited and considered good enough. The relevant point is that the epidemic peaked four months ago and is now over.

A minor quibble about what you say about T-cells. Don’t call it “T-cell mediated immunity” or people might think you don’t know the difference between the humoral and cell-mediated immune systems (both of which involve T-cells). The main point about these T-cell studies (which find CD4+ as well as CD8+) is not whether the virus is being cleared by antibodies or cytotoxic T-cells (it’s probably both) but that the human immune system uses memory cells for long-term memory.

IgG antibodies seem to be very well adapted by evolution to stick around for a few months, which is about how long an epidemic like this lasts (and it’s fairly independent of population size, depending more on incubation period and infectious period). These act as a potent sterilizing defence for the couple of months during which Covid is everywhere.

After that the levels go down (which is partly why so many people are testing negative for them) but your body keeps memory cells, for years, probably for life, that mean if you are reinfected by the same thing or something similar you quickly recreate the antibodies and the cytotoxic T-cells that you had before and will suffer only mild or no illness. This part of the system is perfectly adapted to the period after the initial epidemic when the virus has become endemic.

There is nothing unusual about all this with respect to Covid-19. High seroprevalence would prove herd immunity, but low seroprevalence does not disprove it.

51915 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to guy153, 3, #527 of 1595 🔗

Thank you for this; your comments are always welcome and dispel quite clearly any misapprehensions which we might have.

I wish the dolts in government would listen to you.

52244 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, 3, #528 of 1595 🔗

Stunning guy. I didn’t really understand a word of it, but very good to know knowledgeable people who do are on our side !

51891 Nobody2020, 7, #529 of 1595 🔗

I had a “discussion” with somebody on BBC HYS a couple of months ago regarding the NHS tracking app and loss of freedoms. I can’t find the actual transcript from it but it went along the lines of:

Them: You’ve already given up these rights by simply having a smart phone.
Me: So we should keep giving up rights on the basis that we’ve already given some away?

This whole crisis has shown just how dangerous that thinking is.

People have already willingly given up:

Their way of life.
Their livelihoods.
Their jobs.
Their lives – in the case of those needing urgent medical care

The list goes on and on but those are the main ones that I could think of.

Now we are expected to wear masks. The staunch advocates justify it with such arguments as:

It’s just a piece of cloth
It’s the least we can do
It’s not a loss of freedom

Whilst seemingly forgetting everything else they’ve already given up to this point.

51892 Awkward Git, 4, #530 of 1595 🔗

US Education Secretary in a TV interview:

https://twitter.com/SomeBitchIKnow/status/1283193628639350784

WOW even if it is a mobile phone recording of a TV.

51894 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, #531 of 1595 🔗

Statue of Edward Colston replaced with statue of one of the mob who removed him. comment image ?imwidth=960

51898 ▶▶ Simon, replying to Mike Smith, 4, #532 of 1595 🔗

Can we pull it down?

52058 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Simon, 3, #533 of 1595 🔗

Apparently we could pull it down – the local police say it’s not their problem and please do go ahead!

51909 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #534 of 1595 🔗

Off with it! To borrowfrom the Red Queen

51919 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #535 of 1595 🔗

I’m not trying to be racist comparing this to Planet of the Apes. The parallel of the fallen Statue of Liberty just seems quite apt.

51977 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #536 of 1595 🔗

Gong!! Sorry, 2020, you said “I’m not….racist”. That makes you Hitler. You have been cancelled.

51971 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #537 of 1595 🔗

Despicable, like the female shown!

53062 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mike Smith, #538 of 1595 🔗

**VOMITS**

51897 Simon, replying to Simon, 4, #539 of 1595 🔗

I ride a motorcycle so technically, with a full face helmet, I have a face covering. And not only that, it is a CE marked and approved piece of safety equipment. As I intend on riding to any shops, I would elect to keep the helmet on.

I wonder what would happen if I went into a bank, but a bank isn’t a shop so I guess it’s muzzle exempt.

If the groupthink is going against you, don something ridiculous. A full chemical attack gas mask to terrifiy them would be hilarious. I might also get myself a Peter Hitchens Warsaw pact gas mask. Darth Vadar style breathing to accompany it would go down well. (Think Rick Moranis in Spaceballs).

Compliance with total disobedience thrown in. If forced, make a total joke out of it to highlight the ridiculous nature.

Bring some fun back to the misery :>)

51901 ▶▶ John P, replying to Simon, 2, #540 of 1595 🔗

Sounds like a great idea. Let everyone here know how you get along.

51932 ▶▶▶ Simon, replying to John P, 1, #541 of 1595 🔗

Will do. They can’t argie, the polycarbonate visor is bulletproof, should stop a virus…. Where’s the facepalm icon when you need it.

51912 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Simon, 4, #542 of 1595 🔗

I ordered a simple mask with a simple slogan printed on it:
Worn under protest!

There’s infinite possibilities, see Etsy, maskedstatements etc.
but it would be great/best, if us opponents could get ourselves organized and settle on one or a few such Masks and statements which we could then order simply and wear in droves.

51922 ▶▶▶ RDJ, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #543 of 1595 🔗

I ordered a mask with ‘Make Orwell fiction again’

52216 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #544 of 1595 🔗

The best mask to wear in protest is no mask. Why don’t we try that. If your really worried perhaps at least until the police actually issue a single fine somewhere.

51927 ▶▶ Willow, replying to Simon, 1, #545 of 1595 🔗

A V for Vendetta mask would seem appropriate. Or a medieval plague doctor mask. I’m in search of a clown mask depicting Boris Johnson’s face if anyone knows where to get one…?

51974 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Willow, 1, #546 of 1595 🔗

I’ve ordered a V for Vendetta mask and a few Highwayman masks.

51968 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Simon, 3, #547 of 1595 🔗

Yes, banks are specifically places where muzzles (and helmets) are NOT allowed!

51973 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Simon, 2, #548 of 1595 🔗

If the groupthink is going against you, don something ridiculous.”

Absolutely. Arlo Guthrie’s ‘Alice’s Restaurant’ is the metaphor : enough people ‘sing’ and you have a movement.

Divert energy into making the whole enterprise look the stupid idea that it is.

52102 ▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to Simon, 3, #549 of 1595 🔗

Agreed – I’ve opted for a black balaclava for casual shopping, and a Soviet-era gas mask for formal occasions.

52774 ▶▶ microdave, replying to Simon, #550 of 1595 🔗

And not only that, it is a CE marked and approved piece of safety equipment

Just like my welding helmet! And it’s one with arc detection, so it can be seen through normally otherwise.

51907 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #551 of 1595 🔗

I hope Sainsbury’s follows through on just ignoring this.
A good example of ‘passive resistance’.
We need more of that, as this is probably the best and most efficient tactic to achieve increased critical thinking amongst the sheep, followed by a change of mind and course of action, especially in light of the MSM’s continued and likely to be ever intensified censoring and propaganda.

51911 ▶▶ John P, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #552 of 1595 🔗

It’s a positive sign, but I fear that other shoppers may try to photograph and shame transgressors. It may take balls to enter a shop full of masked ghouls without a mask.

I’m planning on avoiding shops altogether and wearing my scarf around my face on the – hopefully rare – occasions that I cannot avoid them.

52209 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to John P, 1, #553 of 1595 🔗

Why would you fear being photographed and ‘shamed’ – do you actually care what crazy people think about you? Before donning the scarf and avoiding the shops why not give it a try and see how it works out? Worse case you get a £100 fine.

52221 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #554 of 1595 🔗

Thanks, but I can’t afford a £100 fine.

I’m not wearing a mask to the shops.

I’ll deal with this in my way. You deal with it in yours.

52372 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 2, #555 of 1595 🔗

They can photograph me all they like. I don’t use social media (except this site) and I don’t read the local press, so what do I care?

51939 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #556 of 1595 🔗

Agreed; see my post above.

Supermarkets- including local convenience outlets- have a lot of clout and seem to be deciding independently how much punishment to impose on customers.

It will be interesting to see whether the Coronabots start to shed the fear and indulge in some joined up thinking.

51908 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 5, #557 of 1595 🔗

Some positive news : this morning, having accrued a mass of plastic bags for recycling, I took the plunge and went to our local Morrison’s: my badge and lanyard haven’t arrived yet.

Bags not recycled by council.

Greeted 2 security blokes at entrance : asked if OK to enter, mentioned my eye damage.

Yes no problem, no reason to think I would be turned away.

They were both pleasant and polite; no disapproval.

Noted that I was the single bare faced customer; the only folk similarly free of gags were the till ladies and one member of the floor staff.

No one commented or gave me any trouble.

My impression was that this is one more headache which supermarkets could do without: entirely unnecessary and the additional costs must be significant: extra security staff- good-in that people are employed, provision of masks for all floor workers- but not taken up by all, potential loss of local custom.

Then the fact that tills are exempt because of perspex barriers.

So, having been apprehensive, I would congratulate Morrison’s on employing flexibility and common sense.

I hope it will last and that this will encourage fellow dissidents to make the most of local Morrison’s outlets.

51916 ▶▶ John P, replying to wendyk, 1, #558 of 1595 🔗

It doesn’t come in for ten days yet.

51920 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to John P, 1, #559 of 1595 🔗

I’m in Scotland: Wee Krankie imposed it several days ago.

51964 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to wendyk, #560 of 1595 🔗

Ah yes, the Northern provinces, troublesome, yet again!

51970 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to wendyk, 1, #561 of 1595 🔗

Sorry, I forgot. (And my mother is a Scotswoman!)

51976 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to wendyk, 5, #562 of 1595 🔗

It’s high time big business (including supermarkets) started kicking back against this nonsense.

51985 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #563 of 1595 🔗

Quite agree

53005 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Tom Blackburn, #564 of 1595 🔗

I am afraid big business is a lost cause….to PC woke many years ago.

52734 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to wendyk, 2, #565 of 1595 🔗

My Dad & I visited the local Coop today – neither of us wearing masks. We were the only people shopping without masks, including the staff, who a week ago were not wearing them!

Looks like my Dad & I are unlikely early leaders of the resistance – my husband is now watching out for the comments on local FB! (We’re in a rural area of the Highlands – a lot of compliance (and snitching) in this neck of the woods throughout lockdown.)

52920 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 1, #566 of 1595 🔗

Morrison’s have been a beacon of sanity in these insane times.

51926 seeker, replying to seeker, 3, #567 of 1595 🔗

Can someone please enlighten me – I am genuinely puzzled.
Scientists are warning that a person who has recovered from C19 may not remain immune for more than a couple of months.
How then can a vaccine give any lasting immunity?

{The conspiracy nut in me wonders if the drug companies are hoping to persuade the government that all 60+million of us will need 4 or 6 booster shots every year for the lifetime of the vaccine’s patent.]

51946 ▶▶ RickH, replying to seeker, 6, #568 of 1595 🔗

STOP!!! You’re asking intelligent questions.

Errr … but in terms of ‘follow the money’ …. uuum ….

As you have correctly diagnosed, the whole ‘vaccine’ scenario is based on a pack of cards.

  1. Why do you need a vaccine for a generally mild infection?
  2. Can you guarantee an effective vaccine?
  3. Can you guarantee a SAFE vaccine in any short timescale, following proper RCT trialing?
  4. Why would any sane person accept a vaccine without good answers to those questions?
51950 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to seeker, 6, #569 of 1595 🔗

The period of immunity for this virus (not for any other disease in history, just this one) varies between individuals.
It has been calculated (by real scientists) to be the period of time between the date someone catches the virus and the date the vaccine comes on the market. Uncanny.

51959 ▶▶ IanE, replying to seeker, 1, #570 of 1595 🔗

Don’t expect consistency or logic from these so-called ‘scientists’!

51961 ▶▶ A13, replying to seeker, 3, #571 of 1595 🔗

Yep, subscription service for life. You’ll need a Vaccine Prime membership, paid monthly.
Jokes aside, that’s how big pharma makes money – on providing lifetime prescription drugs. Hooking up for example diabetic on medication for 20-30 years costs tens of thousands of pounds, so there’s incentive on keeping people ill/medicated for a long time.

52225 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to seeker, 2, #572 of 1595 🔗

On length of immunity, See guy153 above, who clearly knows a hawk from a handsaw. The anti vaccine lobby is largely US based, where the insurance based healthcare funding system means over -medication is endemic.
In UK, given current state of knowledge that CV19 is primarily deadly for the old and/or frail, the NHS cost benefit analysis (QALYs) would suggest any vaccine only being offered to that group, just like flu now.

52364 ▶▶ guy153, replying to seeker, 2, #573 of 1595 🔗

They “may” not remain immune, but a vaccine “may” give them lasting immunity… Both these statements are technically true, and this is how people writing in the Guardian who should know better get away with making these apparently contradictory statements.

But if you try to quantify those “may”s, you will end up finding something like that it’s a 99.9% chance that a real infection will give you immunity and a 99.8% chance that a vaccine will. I don’t know if these are the real numbers, my point is that they are both close to 100% and the first one is probably a little bit bigger.

There are some situations in which a vaccine can be designed to give longer lasting immunity than a real infection. But I’ve looked into the Covid vaccines in some detail and none of them are trying to do anything more clever than just make your body think it’s had Covid.

The most likely scenarios are that: a real Covid infection gives you extremely high immunity for a few months and several decades or lifetime of immunity after that (with maybe a small reinfection). It will probably also give you some cross-immunity against SARS3 whenever that comes along. A more severe infection will likely give you more immunity as you will end up with more antibodies and more memory cells. But if you had a severe infection you need more immunity– your body knows what it’s doing!

A vaccine will likely give you a similar level of immunity to a relatively mild real infection. You’d get better immunity with a bigger dose but too big and people start to get ill just from the vaccine.

Going into more details, all vaccines will give you antibodies and some memory B-cells and CD4+ T-cells that go with the antibody subsystem. Some of them are better than others at also giving you some CD8+ “cytotoxic” T-cells (and memory versions of those). The Oxford-designed vaccine gives you lots of CD8+ and relatively few antibodies, and it’s possible that it wouldn’t even prevent you getting Covid at all, just that it would make it milder.

52469 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to seeker, 1, #574 of 1595 🔗

The plan is for annual jabs like flu.

Kerching.

52587 ▶▶ Basics, replying to seeker, 1, #575 of 1595 🔗

The word you are missing is ‘booster’.
A yearly booster. No point in having a one time pay day when you can have a rolling programme of paydays.

But apparently the vaccine is to be an untested RNA vaccine that will genetically alter your cells so the old fashioned way of looking at immunisations is not relevant.

51928 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 7, #576 of 1595 🔗

How’s Tony getting on? Don’t lose heart, this masks nonsense is upsetting a lot of people, not just people on this site.

51941 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mike Smith, 4, #577 of 1595 🔗

Not seen him today, hope he’s not done something stupid and is OK.

52031 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Mike Smith, 4, #578 of 1595 🔗

And Biker – haven’t seen him on here today.

I know there was a spat about whether Tony was for real or not, and that some of Biker’s views weren’t universally approved of.

Having said that, I’m guessing that if anyone genuinely depressed about the covid hysteria was to spend half an hour with Biker, with his devil-may-care/fuck-the-lot-of-them ethos, they’d feel much better.

52036 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to TJN, 1, #579 of 1595 🔗

Oh, I don’t think we need to worry about Biker!

52060 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #580 of 1595 🔗

Nah, I’m not worried about him! Do miss his updates though.

52138 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #581 of 1595 🔗

No word yet. Very worried.

52203 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TyLean, 1, #582 of 1595 🔗

If he knows people on here are asking after him he may feel better.

52394 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to TJN, #583 of 1595 🔗

I have told him that a few times. I sent three emails so far today (no reply), and he didn’t reply to my last email last night. I really have a very bad feeling.

52486 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TyLean, 2, #584 of 1595 🔗

You’ll know better than most.

I didn’t know exactly what to make of his posts yesterday – I must admit that like Biker I did wonder if they were legit. So I end up feeling bad either way – bad for doubting what might be a tragedy, or at least someone’s intense suffering; and bad for maybe being taken for a ride. But what do you do? I left what I hope what was an encouraging message anyway.

As far as I know, from here only you and Toby have been in direct contact with him (her??), and you both think he’s genuine.

I hope your feelings are wrong. The tragedy of the covid hysteria has done far too much harm already. We know already that there are many lost people out there, for whom it has all been too much.

52929 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TyLean, 1, #585 of 1595 🔗

I hope he’s OK. I admit to feeling up and down during this crisis, now mostly down in the run up to my workplace reopening next week. Its reached the point where I’m joking about committing hara-kiri because work will be insane in the next few weeks.

51934 RickH, 3, #586 of 1595 🔗

The following article is referenced in ‘Round Up’ (above). I’m just highlighting it as a very good summary for anyone wanting to shoot down the mask nonsense :

https://principia-scientific.org/neurosurgeon-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-healthy-individuals/

51935 Basics, replying to Basics, #587 of 1595 🔗

BBC five live Nicky Campbell did a debunking of conspiracy theories a few days ago. A BBC Misinformation Officer was on hand to help Nicky Campbell understand, debunk and pooh pooh. LS contirbutors already know the score at this point – I need not say more. However, there is an absolutely fascinating analysis of the segment by Richie Allen.

10 minutes in onwards.
https://youtu.be/XiiyHC6-w0o

You are welcome to tell me Allen is like Icke and so on. I know the perceptions. Allen is also absolutely brilliant at walking his listeners through msm interviews and emphasising exactly how the media propagate agendas.

Among many other views Allen ahas criticised the UKColumn which I rate highly. I suppose I am saying I have an open, not suggestible, mind.

Posting simply because from 10 minutes onwards you hear a BBC Misinformation Officer at work. That is incredible. Ihaven’t listened to the whole two hour radio show.

51951 ▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 2, #588 of 1595 🔗

I think the central difficulty here is that decisions are often made behind the scenes in private.

I think it is very clear that some (not all) sections of the media do try to promote certain agendas.

The coronavirus is not the first.

For example, in 2018 we saw the demonisation of Russia in the UK over Skripal (what actually happened is still not clear) and especially in the United States, their media was relentlessly pushing evidence free anti-Russian propaganda.

There is also the issue of Syria. There is a view taken by a significant minority of journalists (including, I think Peter Hitchens) that the White Helmets (founded by a British intelligence officer) are a propaganda front for jhadi terrorists.

But with all that said, I do not accept that those in power are not really in charge.

They are. Boris Johnson and his cabal are running this country. Sinister figures like Bill Gates and George Soros may be influential, but they are not in charge.

51955 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to John P, 1, #589 of 1595 🔗

No, but sinister figures like Boris Johnson and his cabal are running ruining the country!

51967 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to IanE, #590 of 1595 🔗

lol, I’ve used that joke before Ian.

52004 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 4, #591 of 1595 🔗

I pretty much agree with you on this, but a fundamental problem is that we cannot trust media who believe they have a duty to influence behaviour, rather than a duty to inform without imposing an interpretation. This was a fundamental change in our journalistic culture during the C20th, when it was argued that because it’s impossible to eradicate any possible bias, there must be intentional bias towards the greater good.

The classic illustration is the BBC’s systematic use of “regime” to mean “government that is to be regarded as bad and illegitimate” in international news stories.

But in fact, at least having a theoretical overriding principle of informing and moral neutrality, and an anathema for the idea of a “noble lie”, helps to mitigate the worst offences of propagandising, that we see constantly from the BBC in particular, but also from pretty much all our media.

52032 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mark, #592 of 1595 🔗

Well, I remember in the 1980s being confused as to why the media always referred to weapons weilding (unionist) protestants in Northern Ireland as “loyalist” “paramilitaries” and their (republican) catholic counterparts as “terrorists”.

They were both just as bad as each other.

Propaganda is not new.

“a fundamental problem is that we cannot trust media who believe they have a duty to influence behaviour, rather than a duty to inform without imposing an interpretation.”

We have no other means of receiving information. And it is clear that not all journalists toe the government or establishment line.

It is important to critically evaluate what you are told, not just accept it at face value.

52043 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, #593 of 1595 🔗

The change I’m talking about was early-mid C20th.

Propaganda certainly is not new and neither is the age old freedom fighter versus terrorist issue. But there was a way to mitigate it, however imperfectly, by having a formal institutional commitment to neutrality and truth. That, we lost.

52052 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mark, #594 of 1595 🔗

I don’t agree with you.

It was these institutions that were pushing this propaganda.

52383 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, #595 of 1595 🔗

It’s enjoyable to listen to the unquestioned interviews being pulled apart, once in a while I learn from them.

51944 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #596 of 1595 🔗

Actually more important than masks is the number of people coming in on dinghies. 90 intercepted and brought in today that is without the number whose life jackets are found on the beaches. Many of these, according to the committee were not tested from the time they looked in March, Patel stumbling on about what will be done but obviously isint it.

51962 ▶▶ John P, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #597 of 1595 🔗

It’s an issue.

But no, 90 people arriving on these shores in dinghies is very definitely not more important than the government trying to make 50 million people wear gags when they go shopping!

51969 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to John P, 3, #598 of 1595 🔗

My point, and it wasnt 90 people that was the example from yesterday alone, was that the virus is still being brought into the country in this way with no checks. I am totally against the gags, and this is not helping

51994 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #599 of 1595 🔗

Ninety people? How many of them are likely to even have it!

51997 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 1, #600 of 1595 🔗

Statistically speaking : NONE.

… and in this benighted isle, the last calculated estimate (ONS) was 1 in 3,900, which is probably now around 1 in 10000 if the falling death rate is any measure.

52006 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to John P, #601 of 1595 🔗

None.

52086 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, 1, #602 of 1595 🔗

I’d imagine they will have to be quarantined as well for 14 days on arrival, so even if they do have it they should be clear by then

52087 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to JohnB, #603 of 1595 🔗

Not if they are the ones who ran off leaving their jackets on the beach,

51988 ▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to John P, #604 of 1595 🔗

67 million, the population hasn’t been 50 million since the 1950’s.

51993 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to daveyp, #605 of 1595 🔗

Sigh, I knew there’d be one.

I should have gone and checked. 67 million is the population of the UK.

Hancock and Boris are not in charge of Scotland (5m), Northern Ireland or Wales. So it’s probably closer to 60 million (without checking).

However, children under ten probably do not shop independently. So maybe less than 60 million anyway.

I was trying to illustrate a point. Which stands.

52082 ▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to John P, #606 of 1595 🔗

Keep digging mate!

52083 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to daveyp, #607 of 1595 🔗

?

51978 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #608 of 1595 🔗

So much for us supposedly being governed by some kind of “extreme right” supposedly existing in the modern “Conservative” Party. Even with a massive majority they haven’t even made more than a token pretence at controlling mass immigration, which would be among the first priorities of anyone meaningfully conservative or patriotic.

People with a narrow and recent perspective (often based on an obsession with Margaret Thatcher) confuse and conflate big business interests with right wing, not understanding that there are far wider and far more important issues than free market or corporatism versus state control at stake in the right/left divide, ranging over culture, religion, social structure and the entire existence and future nature of the nation.

51998 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark, 2, #609 of 1595 🔗

I used to be an Immigration Officer so view all this with cynical despair.

Channel crossings have continued throughout the suspension of our normal activities and liberties.

It’s estimated that some 2000 or more, have reached the UK this year by this route and that none have been removed.

The French have done nothing to stop these crossings, why would they?

A family member lives on the south coast, where the locals are extremely aggrieved: she sees the Border Force cutter,locally known as the pleasure cruiser, waiting to escort dinghies to safety.

It’s suspected that many are Covid positive but that few have been tested.

The UK’s borders are porous to put it mildly and no strict controls were enforced when the house arrests began.

I know from direct experience that internal controls are virtually non existent, yet still the government prevaricates while Wee Krankie demands an open borders policy-except where her English neighbours are concerned.

52011 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to wendyk, 5, #610 of 1595 🔗

It was easily understandable when the Labour Blairites were in charge, because it was a win/win for them. Mass immigration undercut wages and provided endless cheap labour for their big business backers and also hammered their political enemies by “rubbing the right’s noses in diversity” and destroying any societal stability that could resist, long term, their programs of radical change. But there’s no excuse for anyone who is a conservative or a patriot in any meaningful sense to allow it to continue.

The underlying reality being that the modern “Conservative” Party are in no sense conservative or patriotic, but rather are just more Blairites, under a “Conservative” Party label.

52120 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark, 2, #611 of 1595 🔗

Correct. I have no faith in any of them. They are mendacious, economical with the facts and masterful employers of expedient double standards and spin.
Ghastly.

53159 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Mark, #612 of 1595 🔗

Yes absolutely true…the modern Tory Party has been Blairite since John Major.

52320 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to wendyk, 2, #613 of 1595 🔗

As is generally agreed on this site, the threat of Covid is not significant. of more concern is other illnesses such as TB (for which a test is needed when applying for a visa to come to the UK from most of the countries that the illegals are coming from).
And there was a documentary a few months back where “immigrants” were smuggled in to the country via various methods which showed how porous our borders are (all entered the country unchallenged)

52428 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to mjr, 2, #614 of 1595 🔗

I quite agree; and I made the point about Covid merely to highlight yet another example of governmental double standards.

As I wrote previously, having been an Immigration Officer, I know only too well how porous the UK’s borders are,and always have been.

52788 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to wendyk, #615 of 1595 🔗

The French have done nothing to stop these crossings, why would they?

I’m sure I saw a report today that a smallish dingy was intercepted, and turned back by the French Coastguard.

It would be nice if this becomes a regular event…

52156 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #616 of 1595 🔗

The virus is already here….. why is this so hard to understand. Someone from China is *potentially* no more or less infectious than your next door neighbour.

51953 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 14, #617 of 1595 🔗

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/lidl-scotland-face-masks-coverings-18584765.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Lidl not enforcing face masks (the picture is my local Lidl 😏 ). How long before other retailers follow suit, interesting that there is an Iceland and B&M on the same plot, can’t see them turning people away.

51965 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stefarm, 6, #618 of 1595 🔗

They’ve been happily accepting customers without masks throughout all this.

Apart from masks becoming mandatory nothing else has changed. There’s no reason for supermarkets to start acting as if they’ll all start dying if their customers don’t wear masks now.

52064 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #619 of 1595 🔗

Very true but it hopefully will give some of out fellow sceptics some confidence in not being turned away for doing the right thing.

51954 Fed up, replying to Fed up, 8, #620 of 1595 🔗

Can anyone tell me when and where the protest march is starting from on Sunday. Very keen to protest against this de-facing

52466 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Fed up, 3, #621 of 1595 🔗

De-facing. I like that.

51972 James007, 5, #622 of 1595 🔗

Sorry if already posted. I noticed that someone has hacked into the government advice pages and started to post parody articles. This one is about how to make facemasks from bits of old cotton fabric.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-to-wear-and-make-a-cloth-face-covering/how-to-wear-and-make-a-cloth-face-covering

Sorry for the heavy sarcasm.

51986 Mark, replying to Mark, 20, #623 of 1595 🔗

To wear a mask or not?

A lot of discussion about how to respond, in practical terms, to the outrage that is the imposition of mask wearing by law. Many suggest wearing obviously ridiculous masks such as gas masks or plague doctor masks, or masks with protest slogans written on them, to highlight opposition to the measure, and those things may have their places, when one absolutely cannot afford to risk not wearing one.

But in general it is vital that we simply wear no face covering at all, as often and as openly as possible, because the fight all hangs on normalisation. If they can normalise the wearing of masks, then they will be able to make it harder and harder to resist.

The figures posted by the BBC yesterday suggest mask wearing is still much rarer here than it is elsewhere, and if the full court propaganda press is not to succeed in changing that then we need to fight back against all the fanatics and collectivists pushing hard to make people comply.

Wearing a face covering of any kind, even under protest, even an absurd one, all helps to get people used to the idea and encourages the peer pressure that is ultimately the only way they can get this to stick. The fewer holdouts there are, the easier it becomes to punish them for resisting.

51992 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 5, #624 of 1595 🔗

A good point. A combination of refusal and ridicule is probably the answer.

52012 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 5, #625 of 1595 🔗

Refusal where possible, ridicule where necessary.

51996 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Mark, 6, #626 of 1595 🔗

Completely agree, my wife and I have decided we will not be wearing any form of mask to the shops, absurd or not.

We are flying next week, and I can’t see any way to get around boarding the aeroplane without one, but once seated we intend to eat/drink throughout the flight. Our destination does not mandate masks, so we’re looking forward to binning them as we disembark!

52020 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 5, #627 of 1595 🔗

So far I’ve managed not to put a mask on at all, but it’s been easy so far. It will get progressively more difficult for us all. Flying is one key area, because any kind of confrontation on or before a flight is likely to be responded to robustly, and protest of any kind is generally not allowed.

52101 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Mark, 4, #628 of 1595 🔗

Yes, same here, I haven’t worn one yet. My 4 year old daughter has a habit of loudly asking me, ‘Daddy, why are they wearing THAT!’ whenever she sees a mask wearer.

Although for me the only reason I’ve been able to easily avoid it is because I’ve been furloughed. I normally fix aeroplanes for a living, so when I eventually return to that (which might be some time!), I’m going to really struggle to get around it. As you say, dissent is just not tolerated in the airport environment.

The only saving grace for us sceptical passengers is that Heathrow are providing masks free of charge, so there’s no need to pay for one of the dreadful things.

52021 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #629 of 1595 🔗

That’s what I will do too. Unless I wear a “proper mask” (whatever that is) I won’t be allowed to board the plane. So I will just eat and drink all the flight.

52026 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #630 of 1595 🔗

I agree with all the above. Wearing novelty masks or writing slogans on them misses the point. Mark’s point, ‘the fight all hangs on normalisation’ nails it for me. Mask-wearing is currently <5% in the High Peak. Most people will conform, of course, once the mandatory muzzles in shops comes in and it will take courage on all our parts to keep refusing.

52029 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #631 of 1595 🔗

We’re in the same boat as you-flying out next week, totally against wearing masks but if that is the only way we can go abroad to where we used to live and see our friends again, so be it. We have booked a hot meal on board and intend to take an awfully long time eating it!
We did ask the holiday company for its risk assessment on wearing masks for long periods of time at altitude but as with our request to our MP (twice) to see the government’s own risk assessment, we could be waiting a long time.

52236 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 1, #632 of 1595 🔗

Reading the legislation as long as the airline does not make it a condition of carriage for the flight then the legislation stops at the edge of English territorial airspace – I think this is 12 miles same as at sea – and they can come off.

Get the pilot to do announcement like they did years ago coming out of Saudi saying you have left Saudi airspace and even in an emergency you will not be going back and off came the burkhas, dishdashes and out came the alcohol so nowadays off could come the masks.

(3) These Regulations apply—

(a)
in England;
(b)
in English airspace to a person who is on board an aircraft which took off from, or is to land at, a place in England;
(c)
in the English territorial sea to a person who is on board a vessel which is not an excluded vessel.

(4) Nothing in these Regulations applies to a person who is completing a journey on a public transport service which they started before 15th June 2020.

(5) In this regulation—

(a)
“English airspace” means the airspace above England or above the English territorial sea ;
(b)
“the English territorial sea” means the part of the territorial sea of the United Kingdom which is adjacent to England;

52361 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #633 of 1595 🔗

Have an extra tipple on me! Enjoy!

52353 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark, #634 of 1595 🔗

UK 36%?

Where do they do these surveys?

52464 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, #635 of 1595 🔗

Some us aren’t in the position to pay endless fines or fight endless court cases.

We do the best we can.

52505 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Farinances, #636 of 1595 🔗

In my case, my professional body (accountant) would discipline me for getting even a fixed penalty notice.

52610 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, #637 of 1595 🔗

Yes, I absolutely accept that not everyone can afford to take a stand, and that for some people the consequences of doing so would be unacceptably bad. My point is just that wherever possible masks should not be worn, and that wearing a “protest” mask (or publicly displaying an exemption for that matter) is much less desirable.
A lot will depend on how many supermarkets enforce it strictly.

52634 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 1, #638 of 1595 🔗

I agree

But I do actually think protest masks serve a very important purpose. They will be SEEN. Those of us who won’t be in the shop…. wont be in the shop.

Basically do all you can to get in there without one. But if you must, be seen taking the piss with a silly mask on.

52635 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Mark, 1, #639 of 1595 🔗

I entirely agree. If compliance levels are high the government will assume everyone broadly approves and will never withdraw the requirement. What would their benchmark be anyway given they’re introducing it when numbers are so low. Zero infections? Oh.. but not even then – ‘they’ve been so successful and think of that second wave’.. why don’t we all use the anxiety exemption. They cannot refuse entry on the basis of a disability- that would risk being discrimination under the Disability Act.

51990 ChrisH29, replying to ChrisH29, 11, #640 of 1595 🔗

No matter what these fear mongering lap dogs, yapping to Boris’s every whim, opine the fact is that this virus is remarkable only by its un-remarkableness. It is irrefutable now that so much data is available that it is no more dangerous than seasonal flu. Had not absurd, some might say murderous, policies not been implemented such as sending the infected into ‘centres of the vulnerable’, to wit, care homes, it is almost certain that the data would show it similar to a mild flu.

Attached is an excellent summation of all cause mortality in England and Wales curtesy ‘InProportion2’. Here is a link to his regular update of the data. http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/

Up to 16th June only 297 people under the age of 60 in England, out of a total attributed death toll of over 39,000, died ‘from’ Covid without a “pre-existing underlying medical condition”. 297 out of a total all cause death toll of over 300,000.

It seems likely that the number of deaths resulting directly from the lockdown, deaths that would not have occurred but for it, vastly exceeds that number. With more than 100,000 undiagnosed cancer patients wandering our streets the avoidable collateral cancer deaths alone will exceed 297 by an order of magnitude.

51995 ▶▶ Julian, replying to ChrisH29, 6, #641 of 1595 🔗

Indeed. The question is at what point, if ever, will this realisation start being talked about enough and by the right people to start getting through to the public at large, and what if anything can we do to hasten that.

52010 ▶▶▶ ChrisH29, replying to Julian, 10, #642 of 1595 🔗

Therein lies the issue. There are so many people, too bone idle or ill equipped to find out for themselves from the data, that have been terrified by the incessant Government propaganda. For weeks, on every TV channel at every ‘break’ in programming we were assaulted with “Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives”. Many I suspect would have seen or heard the Government mantra 50 times a day, every day. If a private company tried to do that I am sure that there would be an uproar and it would be banned, much like subliminal advertising was decades ago.
This virus were being “sold” as some form of airborne Ebola deadly to anyone who came in contact with it, not a typical flu which is the reality, so it is hardly surprising that the most supine and cowardly are terrified out of their minds.

52017 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to ChrisH29, 7, #643 of 1595 🔗

If the government is going to spend a fortune on public information, why not spend it on something useful?

I would like to see some action on mental health. How to get support, how to help others. How not to be scared.
When you take people’s freedom away, separate families, and cause so much uncertainty is actually harms people.
Looking to see if there are any good charities in this area needing help.

52040 ▶▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to James007, 8, #644 of 1595 🔗

Totally agree. Before the pandemic, charities, corporations and governments constantly prattled on about how important ‘mental health and wellbeing’ is, but I’ve heard practically nothing in the mainstream since the lockdown, despite the fact that lockdown massively harms mental health for obvious reasons.

52041 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Poppy, 5, #645 of 1595 🔗

Unfortunately what is obvious to you and I is clearly not obvious to government ministers.

52166 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 4, #646 of 1595 🔗

Is there any evidence they care much about the mental health of the citizenry? I’d say there’s plenty of evidence of exactly the opposite.

Their main concern is to perpetuate fear and the coronamyth, to consolidate their power and cover up the blunder and the lies.

52015 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to ChrisH29, 2, #647 of 1595 🔗

Exceeded by 3 orders of magnitude.

52024 ▶▶▶ ChrisH29, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #648 of 1595 🔗

I have just added a comment that agrees with you.

52022 ▶▶ ChrisH29, replying to ChrisH29, 19, #649 of 1595 🔗

I am just going to add to my comment above for something has just come to light, literally 60 seconds ago.
My wife is required to undergo regular tests for a particular cancer that they deem she early signs of. We have just received a phone call stating that the scheduled testing has been postponed for a YEAR. A f***ing year.
I feel sure that she has not been singled out, at least as a life long NHS intensive care specialist I would hope not, so this must be common across the country which will inevitably result in thousands of avoidable deaths.
This is what the corona phobic sheep amongst us are allowing the Government to perpetrate. It is a national outrage.

52093 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to ChrisH29, 5, #650 of 1595 🔗

This is criminal.

52359 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #651 of 1595 🔗

Utterly. Utterly.

52109 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to ChrisH29, 4, #652 of 1595 🔗

Shocking! This neglect, pure and simple.

52197 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to ChrisH29, 4, #653 of 1595 🔗

It’s absolutely disgraceful. I know there are an awful lot of angles with the covid farce to disagree with policy and the publicly accepted position. However, the number one issue in my mind has always been a lack of measuring consequences of the shut down. I suspect, particularly when measuring lives saved in number of years, we are saving 10s of thousands years of life by sacrificing millions.

I’m sorry to hear about your wife, this entirely unnecessary. Even more sorry, because as you note, she will not be alone.

52769 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to ChrisH29, 2, #654 of 1595 🔗

I know it is not the same, but they have also stopped 6-monthly diabetic check-ups – for some this will also be life threatening.

51999 Bugle, 16, #655 of 1595 🔗

From Allison Pearson’s article, today’s DT: “The propaganda unleashed on the public in March has been the one truly effective policy that the Government have executed so far” – Luke Johnson.

52000 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 11, #656 of 1595 🔗

Don’t delude yourselves that having a plague mask or a mask with a slogan is fighting back. It isn’t. No one will notice. No one even looks at each other any more. And those who do will have a laugh. Not profound insight. Not some revelation. A chuckle of superiority, because ultimately you will have caved.

The same goes for medical exemption lanyards. I am legitimately entitled to one. I am refusing to use it.

52008 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to TyLean, #657 of 1595 🔗

Have you had any contact with Tony TyLean?

52161 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to wendyk, 1, #658 of 1595 🔗

None…. I’ve got a bad feeling.

52169 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TyLean, #659 of 1595 🔗

I’m so sorry to hear of this TyLean. I know you had tried to help him privately.

52007 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 11, #660 of 1595 🔗

Join us over here for organised resistance to the New Normal…. new site, just getting going:

https://resistnewnormal.net/

52356 ▶▶ annie, replying to TyLean, 1, #661 of 1595 🔗

I’m in. Hope it grows and grows.

52034 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 18, #662 of 1595 🔗

An observation from one of the managers at my nearest supermarket where I have just been shopping. To her knowledge not a single member of staff has tested positive for the virus. In this store, which has been open throughout, I have never seen a member of staff in a face covering, and it was late to put the plastic screens in front of the checkouts. In the city and wider county, the death rate peaked surprisingly early (on or around 1 April) given that we are pretty rural and far from London. Do any of the Cabinet and their families ever go shopping!

52037 ▶▶ John P, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #663 of 1595 🔗

Do any of the Cabinet and their families ever go shopping!

I doubt any MPs go shopping unless for a photo op.

On their state handouts, of what, £85k? they can well afford to have their caviare delivered directly to their mansions. No need to mingle with the dirty riff raff.

52061 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to John P, 9, #664 of 1595 🔗

Exactly right, John. The people buggering up our shops, pubs, buses, gigs, jobs etc. don’t use any of these things or lose their jobs. And good to know they’ve been on full pay throughout, plus homeworking bonuses.
How do you end lockdown this Friday? Simple, furlough MPs tomorrow.

52062 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #665 of 1595 🔗

What an excellent idea!

52070 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 3, #666 of 1595 🔗

I’ll second that!

52081 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #667 of 1595 🔗

I did see Boris Johnson in a pub near Temple once, to be fair, while he was mayor. He wandered in, took his bike helmet off, ruffled his hair, looked confused and then wandered out.

52084 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 1, #668 of 1595 🔗

No face masks in pubs matt

52129 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 2, #669 of 1595 🔗

I mentioned pubs because pubs were mentioned in the post to which I was replying as places where MPs don’t go. And before you re-engage pedantry mode (assuming it’s ever disengaged) and point out to me that Johnson was not an MP for most of the time he was mayor, a
I am aware of this fact.

It was an anecdote, John, intended to be mildly amusing. I’m sorry if it offended you.

52162 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 1, #670 of 1595 🔗

Must have been the sight of one of the divorce/family lawyers!

52942 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, #671 of 1595 🔗

Better yet cut the number of MPs and slash their pay. They keep blathering on about being in parliament because they want to serve the public. Well they should put their money where their mouth is and only get the minimum wage. See how they like that.

52050 ▶▶ daveyp, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #672 of 1595 🔗

I very much doubt they go shopping themselves, due to having to face members of the public, who they try to avoid as much as possible so as not to have to answer any questions.

52073 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #673 of 1595 🔗

Of course they don’t they have domestics to do that!

52046 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 14, #674 of 1595 🔗

Apologies if this has already been posted.

Wales not introducing facemasks:

“Very little has changed in the evidence. Whenever we have looked at this through the Sage group and our own technical advisory group and our own research, we have always found that the evidence is really quite weak.”There is undoubtedly a small benefit to the wearing of face masks but most of that evidence is based on surgical face masks, the sort you see in hospitals, rather than the sort of simple face masks that are being advocated in the community.”

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/face-masks-not-being-made-18592505

52054 ▶▶ John P, replying to Ozzie, 5, #675 of 1595 🔗

Good news, especially if you live in Wales.

52317 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 2, #676 of 1595 🔗

I do, and it us.
Apart from the stupid sd notices, and the even stupider mountains of take-away rubbish, things hereabouts look pretty normal. East Wales will be jammed solid with shopping refugees from England!

52089 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ozzie, 3, #677 of 1595 🔗

There is undoubtedly a small benefit to the wearing of face masks”

… but ‘undoubtedly’, there isn’t

52094 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to RickH, 1, #678 of 1595 🔗

Yes, it’s very weasely.

52153 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to John P, 1, #679 of 1595 🔗

He’s been perfectly logical up to that point, his comments read like he wants to be a lot more forceful but is being diplomatic to not ruffle too many feathers in England/Scotland where we’ve needlessly jumped on the masks bandwagon. This particular bit, ‘undoubtedly a small benefit’ is him trying to avoid calling his colleagues in the rest of the UK idiots.

He might as well have just called them idiots, cos he later says
“If that happens, we may need to think, even on a local level, about other things we can bring in. Face masks could be one of those, but it would be at the end of a long list.”

I don’t know about you guys, but I fully expect him to be forced into a U-Turn in the near future through needless media & opposition pressure, along with being strong armed by Westminster to not show them up. He pretty much confirms the only reason they’re doing it on transport is cos of transport crossing the border with England.

52523 ▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Mark II, 4, #680 of 1595 🔗

Amazingly it is the only thing that he has done the entire time that makes some sort of sense.

52053 HumanityFirst, #681 of 1595 🔗

We should understand that this is much wider than just which places a face mask will be made mandatory and how long this particular restriction will last (unfortunately)

The UK, willingly or willingly (this article implies there was some initial resistance) , has signed up to a something much bigger and long term, which has the potential to totally transform every aspect of our lives and those of our future generations…better to get as fully informed as we can as to what the plan is ..

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/03/17/905264/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/

52055 David Hoban, replying to David Hoban, 2, #682 of 1595 🔗

So now we face 100 quid fines for wearing things that might, in one scientist’s view at least, actually have the potential to extend the virus’s reach….. Well here we Dr Harries saying the same thing to Mr Bumble here… https://twitter.com/1BJDJ/status/1279360417903542273?s=09

52226 ▶▶ Paul M, replying to David Hoban, #683 of 1595 🔗

This is largely mirrored by PHEs recent guidance on cleaning workplaces…

“Surfaces and belongings can be contaminated with COVID-19 when people who are infectious cough or sneeze or touch them. Transmission of COVID-19 can occur when someone else then touches the contaminated surface or item”.

  • So that’s could apply to people constantly fiddling with their masks, and they’ll not just be spreading the elusive Covid but other bugs and nasties and at a higher viral load as they’ve possibly accumulated and bred on the damp surface of the mask.

“The person may become infected if they touch their nose, eyes or mouth with a contaminated hand or object. “

  • So if I touch something they have mauled with their mucky paws then I could transfer a virus/bug to me

“Increased frequency of cleaning of general room surfaces reduces the presence of the virus and the risk of contact”.

  • Doubt the shops will be cleaning their products on a regular basis. So answer is to ditch the masks and people won’t be fiddling near their gobs.
52324 ▶▶ IanE, replying to David Hoban, 4, #684 of 1595 🔗

However, the police don’t seem to be intent on even trying to enforce it and supermarkets seem to be intending their staff to leave well alone. This may be simultaneously a white elephant, a red herring and a damp squib: a pretty impressive feat!

52330 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IanE, 1, #685 of 1595 🔗

If the police try to enforce it then they have to catch everyone they see. They can’t stop one or two individuals whilst others are let off. It’s simply not practical.

52057 Matt Mounsey, replying to Matt Mounsey, 12, #686 of 1595 🔗

Seen in the American news that Moderna are in the last leg of their vaccine trials.

This is very disturbing. It’s far too early for this vaccine to have been properly tested. As far as I can tell, they haven’t even properly isolated the virus. The papers I’ve read said they haven’t even identified monoclonal antibodies to it.

How they can have a vaccine when they don’t even have one for other coronaviruses is a bit too much to swallow.

The vaccine is an RNA vaccine. From what I can tell this is highly experimental and can potentially mess with your DNA. So it could cause birth abnormalities.

And why would anyone take it if they’re under 65? The Flu Manchu isn’t even that dangerous for us. If I don’t take the flu vaccine, why would I need this?

I think this face nappy episode is testing compliance. If they can make you muzzle your face, they’ll find it easier to plunge a needle in your arm. This may be the point to refuse to go along.

52071 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Matt Mounsey, 7, #687 of 1595 🔗

They can take a hike. I’m not having their vaccine.

52137 ▶▶▶ Matt Mounsey, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #688 of 1595 🔗

This is exactly the stance I want to take. But I think it starts by telling them I’m not wearing a mask to get my groceries either.

52076 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Matt Mounsey, 7, #689 of 1595 🔗

In one of his promotional videos earlier this year Bill Gates stated that no vaccine has ever been developed in less than 5 years. The new RNA vaccine technology has never been tested on human subjects until now. No successful vaccine has ever been developed for any coronavirus, all previous attempts never even making it past animal trials.

From what I can gather, more conventional vaccines are also being developed (e.g. Oxford Group, Astra Zeneca), but again at a breakneck speed that is unparalleled in medical history.

52142 ▶▶▶ Matt Mounsey, replying to Richard O, 2, #690 of 1595 🔗

What kind of crazy person would volunteer themselves for this vaccine trial?

And what’s the rush? For all we know the fears of second wave are completely unfounded.

It looks like a problem created by government and business at this stage.

52077 ▶▶ John P, replying to Matt Mounsey, 7, #691 of 1595 🔗

“I think this face nappy episode is testing compliance.”

I think it might be training compliance. Once they’ve trained people to obey their dictats a needle will be a doddle for them.

In the past I have had no qualms about being vaccinated. The last time was about 15 years ago, when my quack GP offered me one. It was the old dead virus type and predictably made me feel a bit fluey for a few days – as they do.

These RNA vaccines are another matter. Apparently none have ever been approved for human use. I don’t think they should be used without a great deal of caution. I wouldn’t be willing to be vaccinated with one.

With that said, perhaps the cabinet, SAGE and the good people of Ferguson’s Imperial College team would like to offer themselves as guinea pigs for any trials.

52131 ▶▶▶ Matt Mounsey, replying to John P, 4, #692 of 1595 🔗

I’ve never questioned vaccines before so I’m surprised to see myself watching films like Vaxxed and other things I would have thought were crazy 6 months ago.

What was most interesting was how Tony Blair equivocated around his son’s MMR jab. His son didn’t get it until political pressure was put on him and this was information he wouldn’t divulge for a long time. And frankly there’s no way of telling if he really did get it.

I don’t see how we can trust a vaccine that messes with RNA until it’s gone through a generation of tests. Even then I would still be suspicious.

52189 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Matt Mounsey, 7, #693 of 1595 🔗

Severely doubt the son (Leo) had the MMR jab, as I remember reading the Blairs had already set off along the individual vaccines route (Rubella first), under the ‘excuse’ it was needed so the little man could attend the playgroup on holiday in France. I am not anti-vaccine at all, quite the opposite. We opted for the individual vaccines for our two sons. We had a stand-off with the GP about getting the BCG vaccine for the younger son (elder one vaccinated as we lived in London at the time) because, as she said, ‘we have eradicated TB’. Umh. We paid to have it done privately. A vaccine for CV – NO. I will agree to it in 5 years time, and only after concrete evidence that every member of the Johnson and Hancock families have had it in the first wave of those vaccinated.

52400 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #694 of 1595 🔗

Same here. I’m pro-vaccine if they are developed and tested properly, and voluntary of course. But I would fight to the death not to have this one, and for my daughter not to have it. The media are very wrong when they say that anyone who is unsure about a covid vaccine must be an anti-vaxxer.

52397 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to John P, 4, #695 of 1595 🔗

Hancock should be first in line.

52130 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Matt Mounsey, 4, #696 of 1595 🔗

In all honesty it’s probably the easiest vaccine to make in history. They just need to sell people a vitamin pill, it can be waved through and then, given 80% of people have mild or no symptoms, they can claim success when 80% of those taking it dont get bad symptoms. That’s a much higher success rate than most years seasonal flu vaccine, I think…

52146 ▶▶▶ Matt Mounsey, replying to Mark II, 1, #697 of 1595 🔗

Great idea. I’ll happily take a vitamin pill over messing with my DNA, thanks.

52312 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Matt Mounsey, #698 of 1595 🔗

Yes – but NOT if it is from the government: who would believe what they said was in the thing?

52308 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark II, #699 of 1595 🔗

Yes – the figures I have seen for flu vaccine are 50% in a good year (which is enough to severely affect spread) and 30% in a bad year.

52311 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark II, #700 of 1595 🔗

Distilled water would do the trick. Or if people are queuing up to buy snake oil, sell ’em snake oil.

52191 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Matt Mounsey, #701 of 1595 🔗

I believe it’s a pump and dump scheme. Recently the share price pumped up and Bancel (the CEO) sold a lot of shares. I suspect the same crap is happening now. Moderna don’t have much revenue.

52298 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Matt Mounsey, #702 of 1595 🔗

It was however just the first phase of trials – a long way to go yet, and most likely it will fail in efficacy anyway!

52066 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #703 of 1595 🔗

Today’s sortie to Tescos found even more people wearing masks, the occasional anxious look and one of two sticking to 2 mtr or more. However the staffed looked very relaxed about it all.

52069 ▶▶ John P, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #704 of 1595 🔗

I noticed that people were more nervous when I went shopping yesterday. It doesn’t take much to trigger people these days.

52079 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to John P, 8, #705 of 1595 🔗

I never realised how many anxiety ridden neurotics there were. I cannot understand why.

52098 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #706 of 1595 🔗

On Radio 2 news yesterday, first item was mandatory masks. Second item was deaths below five year average for third week running.
What do the sheep think? “Now we have to wear masks – see it’s getting worse, we’re all going to die”
Yeesh.

52212 ▶▶ Paul M, replying to Bella Donna, #707 of 1595 🔗

There were more masked fools in my local Asda and Home Bargains today – even a few staff are wearing them. Check-out lady in HB agreed when I said about more non-sense to come and the Govt never want this to end.

52249 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #708 of 1595 🔗

On my walk along the seafront yesterday the muzzled were out in force. Haven’t seen as many since this nonsense began. Depressing.

52075 TJN, replying to TJN, 6, #709 of 1595 🔗

Took my car to the garage week before last: nearly £300. Doing that lots recently, as the car is getting old. Every time it’s £200-300. Very annoying.

But it makes the thought of paying £100 to get a certificate – mine to keep for life, to be handed down to the kids – saying that I stood up for common sense, liberty and decency seem a bargain.

52159 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to TJN, 1, #710 of 1595 🔗

Is this your way of saying you’ll back us when we launch our crowdfunding (in the next few days)?

I’ll ensure you get a sealed certificate to thank you for your part in the fight back!

https://www.lockdowntruth.org/post/face-mask-legal-action

52200 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Lockdown Truth, #711 of 1595 🔗

I’ll make a contribution!

52303 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #712 of 1595 🔗

Can I have a bit of curly gold leaf on mine? Always fancied gold leaf.

52457 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Lockdown Truth, #713 of 1595 🔗

Will you re-announce it on here, or get Toby to mention it?

The legal actions will eventually take their toll. Even if Simon Dolan’s. was ostensibly unsuccessful, he still managed to extract SAGE minutes from them and get them to admit the schools policy was only ever advisory, and bring people together in a single aim. Eventually one of these challenges will hit the bull’s eye.

There’s a limit to what most of us can do – small donations to the good causes, writing to MPs, spreading dissension, bending the rules where we can. But if enough people do it it all adds up.

It’s stupid really, but part of me does want a fine. I’m not going to seek it out, but if I get one que sera. Several people on here have pointed out that wearing a joke muzzle isn’t really enough – if we are against this then we have to make the point by refusing to wear one. There’s a lot in this. And if you follow the logic it means you must be prepared for the risk of a fine.

52182 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to TJN, 1, #714 of 1595 🔗

It will be interesting to see how hard you have to try before you manage to get a £100 fine also.

52201 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Saved To Death, #715 of 1595 🔗

Didn’t pay much attention to the lockdown.

52078 Lockdown Truth, 3, #716 of 1595 🔗

Hi all

We need someone to help with Lockdown Truth’s judicial review of the new face mask directive.

We’re looking for someone to deal with the people side of things such as talking to the press, booking appearances on media for our spokespeople and experts, etc.

You would need to have a fair bit of free time over the next week or two. Obviously this is all voluntary!

Please contact us here :
https://www.lockdowntruth.org/about

Thanks

52085 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 37, #717 of 1595 🔗

I watched the exchange between Sir Desmond Swayne and the ever odious Hancock. The Death Secretary said something which pricked my attention:

(Regarding the enforcement of mandatory muzzles) “Of course enforcement is for the police, but the enforcement will be largely undertaken by the British people themselves.”

So there we have it in black and white. This “government of unity” that was so determined to heal the divisions of Brexit is now merrily creating new societal fissures to the end of sustaining the New Abnormal; the totalitarian police state they expect us to submit to in perpetuity.

The new battles won’t be fought by Remainers and Brexiteers. It’ll be Muzzealots versus Freemen, champions of state interventions into every fabric of society against those who believe in individual responsibility and the right to choose.

Dictatorships have one thing in common – eventually, they all come to a crushing end. Let’s ensure that this one does in the swiftest possible manner.

52301 ▶▶ annie, replying to Scotty87, #718 of 1595 🔗

Yes, and up the Freemen. If the zombies want a fight they can have one. Tap them and they’ll fall to bits.

52310 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Scotty87, #719 of 1595 🔗

Yes, the last four or five administrations have been happy to harness mob rule to get what they want.

52390 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Scotty87, #720 of 1595 🔗

Do they want us to attack anyone not wearing a mask then? Will the police allow it? Can we put them in the stocks, and throw tomatoes at them? How far does he want us to go?

52091 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #721 of 1595 🔗

Why Boris Johnson is having to sacrifice his libertarian values in the battle against coronavirus
The Prime Minister went against his natural instincts when he made face coverings in shops mandatory this week

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/14/boris-johnson-having-sacrifice-libertarian-values-battle-against/

According to one well-placed insider: “The face covering policy is all about giving the public confidence to set foot outside their own front door – and once they do that, the economy has got a fighting chance.

“It’s just a reassurance policy. No one thinks they have that much impact on transmission rates, but there’s a feeling that they don’t do any harm and might finally persuade people to leave their houses.”

52106 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #722 of 1595 🔗

Why do you mandate something, with threat of enforcement/fine, if you think it’s what they want to do?

52113 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #723 of 1595 🔗

It’s micro management. They want an outcome and think they have to make it happen.

52290 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Sam Vimes, #724 of 1595 🔗

If they do ‘want to do it’, it’s only because the government used psychological techniques to scare them to death.

52114 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Nobody2020, 14, #725 of 1595 🔗

What a load of BS. Why should I have to suffer with my breathing and incur extra expense in buying masks just because a terrified minority are too lazy to inform themselves of the actual data? Now the majority, who were quite happy to go shopping unmasked, will be put off going out to shops as a result of this and the economy/high street will suffer.

52117 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Nobody2020, #726 of 1595 🔗

“No one thinks they have that much impact on transmission rates”

Who said that?

52121 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #727 of 1595 🔗

just says a “well-placed insider”

52149 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #728 of 1595 🔗

The government’s OWN experts – weeks ago!

52519 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #729 of 1595 🔗

Scroll down to the video of Harries and Blojo.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1279360417903542273

52136 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #730 of 1595 🔗

But it’s counter intuitive, well for me it is, as I have no desire to wear a mask so I won’t go to a shop. Same if they try to make them mandatory in offices I’ll continue to work from home as I can. But why should I be discrimated against just because a small minority of people are too frightened to go back into the real world.

52170 ▶▶▶ Paul M, replying to ambwozere, #731 of 1595 🔗

Government could just roll back on the fear and encourage MSM to publish real figures – such as the NHS weekly tables showing Deaths by Condition. That should be on the front of every newspaper, then people will see that the ‘lethal killer virus’ is nothing of the sort and is largely pushing those unfortunate people over the edge a little sooner than expected (and this is backed up by ONS plunging death rates)

Emailed my red wall Tory MP, not that he’ll take any notice, but made my feelings felt. Leadership needs to change or be changed.

Have been watching this site for months and enjoy the comments – only bit of sanity that’s kept me going (this and the Simon Dolan case). Should be made compulsory reading for all the bed-wetters. Thanks everyone.

52186 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to ambwozere, 7, #732 of 1595 🔗

I think masks are not really for the benefit of the small minority, but for the benefit of the government, to perpetuate fear. All the “reasons” they give (stop the spread, save a granny, make others less fearful) are excuses to pursue a policy that covers up the fact that the virus has probably already done its worst here and it’s time to get back to normal and move on.

52192 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 2, #733 of 1595 🔗

Yes. Any token benefit they may bring in reducing spread of this illness is imo far outweighed by the fear they spread. Not to mention other issues such as collateral health problems caused by mask wearing and reduced exposure to regular bugs to maintain the effectiveness of one’s immune system.

52300 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Mark, 2, #734 of 1595 🔗

And when/if the flu season arrives, every illness will be labelled covid-19.

52522 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #735 of 1595 🔗

It’s to maintain the illusion that there’s loads of virus out there waiting to pounce.

52155 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #736 of 1595 🔗

It’s going to do the exact opposite, in my opinion, and as per an earlier discussion, they might know that if only any of them/their families went shopping like the rest of us!

52158 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #737 of 1595 🔗

What fucking libertarian values? What a load of utter bollocks. Sorry. What evidence is there of libertarian values from the PM or anyone else in Parliament?

There may be some for whom it will be more appealing to shop because they will feel protected, but for every one of those it will put others off

Anyone who doesn’t think that everyone wearing masks forever doesn’t increase the level of fear and perpetuate the myth that we are dealing with something that merits shutting down the country, to quote Kerry Packer, needs their head read.

52297 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #738 of 1595 🔗

They don’t think it will kill all high-street activity stone dead?
They’ll learn. .

52384 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #739 of 1595 🔗

When will they understand that masks will NOT give people confidence! It will turn more people off than on!

And how can they justify mandating them for such a ridiculous reason? It needs to be on scientific/medical grounds surely? Someone needs to give them a lesson in the real world!

52443 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #740 of 1595 🔗

Yes and if you’re right, well-placed insider, they’re dumb fucks.

52092 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, #741 of 1595 🔗

I emailed my MP about masks at 12.05 and had an argued and substantive reply at 12.13 – a record?

He makes much of the death rate for “sales and retail assistants” – 75% greater for men and 60% for women.

These stats don’t fit with my anecdotal experience, but do we have the same access to this data as Matt Hancock?

I need help in composing a rebuttal. Can anyone on top of the data steer me to the right place – thanks all!

52097 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #742 of 1595 🔗

Don’t have the data for you but the first question I would ask is 75%/60% greater than what?

52110 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #743 of 1595 🔗

greater “than in the general population” was the quote.

52122 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #744 of 1595 🔗

Would that be the elderly and with underlying issues or those without issues and under say 80. Big big difference

52123 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #745 of 1595 🔗

Look for today’s posts where Sylvie has quoted the actual numbers (the 75% and 60% numbers seem to be correct, but the absolute numbers are so small as to be meaningless). Quote this back at him and point out that this is a fairly clear indication that this is not a virus we should be nearly so worried about.

52514 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, #746 of 1595 🔗

And that it’s the government playing games with stats to fool people.

52134 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #747 of 1595 🔗

Another useful ‘bite’ is that most deaths have been in the 80+ age group. Those with pre existing conditions are about 15000, but without it’s just 500. Not mask specific, but pretty clear.

52165 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #748 of 1595 🔗

736 deaths in the 0-64 age range with no pre-existing condtions, for March-June, and remember no autopsies, so a lot probably did have pre-existing condtions.

52167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to JohnB, 1, #749 of 1595 🔗

a lot of deaths were certified remotely so they must have had underlying illness as they would have needed a post-mortem if not

52177 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #750 of 1595 🔗

And the official guidance is designed to avoid involving a coroner, if possible. There is enough evidence in this little thread over a few minutes to show that this whole thing is a scam. But…..

52180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #751 of 1595 🔗

We had a a coroner on here before and he said they would be put down as COVID-19 so as not to require an autopsy or inquiry. He also said this is why “Old Age” was used, but as we can see from the ONS stats, people have stopped dying from “Old Age”.

52271 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #752 of 1595 🔗

That’s BS. My Mrs asked a member of staff at our usual Tesco how many staff had got covid? Answer: none. Age range 18-60.

52112 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to BTLnewbie, 5, #753 of 1595 🔗

The fact he replied so quickly means they’ve all been briefed and have those stats to hand. Stats that have been created for this purpose. So the best question to ask is one that get your MP to question where that data comes from.

52125 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #754 of 1595 🔗

I remember a crime drama where they said when you show someone a photo and say “do you know this man”, the innocent will say something like “err, let me see, no, I don’t think so”. Whereas the liar will just say “No.” immediately.

52115 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #755 of 1595 🔗

Look for Sylvie’ posts on here today. Also, go here for some numbers. Notice other employments are much worse, and that Covid deaths are usually a fraction of ‘all’ deaths.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales

52174 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Sam Vimes, #756 of 1595 🔗

Thanks all – I have the link to the ONS data now, and will try to inspect it later this evening.

52128 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #757 of 1595 🔗

Ask him where he got his stats from.

52150 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #758 of 1595 🔗

Statistics are like paint. You use them to create whatever you want. So I never believe any on face value. If I’m interested I will try to work it out for myself.

What’s the definition of a retail assistant?

52302 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Lockdown Truth, #759 of 1595 🔗

And by “greater than the general population” is he simply averaging all the other sectors deaths and then coming up with 75%, or only certain jobs? I still can’t see from the ONS data and sort of 75% or 60% figures jumping out.

52377 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Youth_Unheard, #760 of 1595 🔗

Probably compared them to people working at home and getting their shopping online, who presumably have a 0% death rate.

52205 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BTLnewbie, #761 of 1595 🔗

Further down the comments today is a link to the ONS and deaths by occupation report to the end of May.

Some more good facts and figures in the comments underneath.

Well done for getting a reply, mine didn’t other than once to say “thank you, contact me again why don’t you”.

52304 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #762 of 1595 🔗

Graeter than the ‘general population’ That includes kids (zero incidents) and people in high professional occupations (very low incidence). Compared to similarly remunerated and skilled occupations, I bet there is no difference. Typical of that slimy weasel to think he’s being clever to spin a lie dressed up as a half truth and think we wouldn’t notice

52415 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Chris Hume, #763 of 1595 🔗

The best lies are those that contain a modicum of truth.

52957 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Chris Hume, #764 of 1595 🔗

It does not include kids. It’s the working age population. As shown clearly in the ONS website.

52451 ▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #765 of 1595 🔗

Those death rates are based on extremely low numbers. And it doesn’t state exactly what they are being compared to.

From the latest occupational data on the ONS website …

Sales Assistants and Retail Cashiers – Deaths involving Covid 19 – Men: 58, Women: 79

That’s out of a total of 3,122 Men and 1,639 Women of working age (20 to 64) who’s death involved Covid 19.

52480 ▶▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to PaulParanoia, 2, #766 of 1595 🔗

Just as a point of reference, there were 2.9 million people employed in retail in 2019. So 0.002% of retail workers deaths involved Covid 19.

52822 ▶▶ Paul M, replying to BTLnewbie, #767 of 1595 🔗

Peter Hitchens has recently posted an anaysis of these figures on his blogg. You could cut and paste it then fire it back to your MP.

My red wall MP is yet to respond to my email

52096 Athanasius, replying to Athanasius, 25, #768 of 1595 🔗

Was talking to a lady the other day that I would have surely had pegged as pro-lockdown. Due to a diplomatic situation, I was resolved to tread carefully. She began the conversation saying, “the virus is coming back isn’t it… cases going up everywhere”. I thought, oh no, here we go. I replied, “well so they say”, and forgetting my diplomacy, added “but you can mark me down as a sceptic”. To my great surprise, her face lit up with a smile, and she answered, “Oh me too!” She then launched into a huge rant about Bill Gates and the chip and goodness knows what else, and recommended a couple of bloggers that were far further down the sceptical/conspiracy theorist route than even I would go…

To me this shows that people will say what they think is expected of them. Pro-lockdown, bedwetting opinions are just the societal expectation, not necessarily what is actually believed. But superficial compliance, not daring to fight back, is likely to be the norm.

52151 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Athanasius, 12, #769 of 1595 🔗

You might be on to something.

Certainly – at least before the latest government wave of Scary Fairy stuff – I have been heartened by the real-time lack of people wearing masks as I have driven around.

What is obvious, however, is that the government and its shills in the science community are playing with the new toy of induced mass psychosis, and are reluctant to put it down and go to bed, leaving the grown-ups alone.

That is why dumb insolence is so important at this stage – we need to increase their psychosis about being unloved and stupid.

52195 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Athanasius, 5, #770 of 1595 🔗

All the more reason why those of us with the balls need to put two middle fingers up and show ’em how it’s done.

52100 Sim18, replying to Sim18, 3, #771 of 1595 🔗

Interesting to see the Imperial College model raise its head again. By coincidence I came across this paper today on the CEBM website ( https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.13.20151233v1 )

My italics.

“Predictive performance of international COVID-19 mortality forecasting models”
“In April, most forecasting models were largely unbiased in their short-term forecasts, with median percent error (MPE) values at one week of extrapolation ranging from -5.5% for LANL to +10.1% for Imperial, with a pooled MPE of +0.6%. By six weeks of extrapolation, however, models produced in April proved to be overly optimistic, with a pooled MPE of -10.0%. In contrast, by June, models had become relatively unbiased in longer-term forecasts, with a pooled MPE at 4 weeks of extrapolation of -0.1%. A notable exception was the Imperial model, which had an MPE of +2,164.8% at six weeks for models
released in April, and an MPE of +105.5% at four weeks for models released in June (see the Supplement for a location-specific visualization of all time-series and errors). “

52107 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sim18, 4, #772 of 1595 🔗

Sounds like a weather forecast to me. Look out the window and you can tell if it might rain within the next few hours with a high degree of confidence.

Less confidence if it will rain in the next couple of days and virtually zero confidence of much past a week.

52108 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #773 of 1595 🔗

It’s likely to be far less accurate than weather forecasting.

52287 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to John P, 2, #774 of 1595 🔗

It us. Wasn’t some pundit complaining of precisely that a few days ago? The implication was that weather forecasts ought to be made less accurate so that the epidemiology ones would look better.

52409 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to annie, 1, #775 of 1595 🔗

How on earth could weather forecasts be made less accurate? Seems that the more they rely on computers the more the accuracy has trended downward!

52319 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to John P, 1, #776 of 1595 🔗

It highlights the limitations of predicting the future using models. Most people can reasonably predict things within a very short time frame. The longer the time span the less useful predictions become.

PS. Over a short period it’s more reporting than predicting.

52563 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #777 of 1595 🔗

It depends what you’re predicting. A model of the solar system will tell you exactly where Jupiter will be 100 years from now with very high accuracy. Other things are harder to model and some things (like long term weather) are basically impossible.

Could something like Fergie’s sim-city model work if it was coded properly and the inputs were validated? Unlikely I think.

52819 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to guy153, 1, #778 of 1595 🔗

Yes that’s fair enough. I suppose it depends on scale, the number of variables and how accurate you want/need to be.

52560 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to John P, 2, #779 of 1595 🔗

Epidemics are easier to predict than the weather. I don’t mean Fergie’s sim-city stuff which is just junk, but they do follow those bell curves predicted by SIR and similar models very well. The weather is chaotic but epidemics are stable and average out to something very predictable.

52116 Youth_Unheard, #780 of 1595 🔗

Found this twitter thread yet another interesting and helpful explanation of “science”
https://twitter.com/jcho710/status/1273873668800606208?s=19

52118 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #781 of 1595 🔗

Talk Radio interview with some weird, odious gimp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqVMY4mjl4c

I’m not posting this for the interview, but for the comments below it. Can you find a single pro-mask, pro-lockdown view? I can’t!

52124 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Mr Dee, #782 of 1595 🔗

He is an odd sort of cove, isn’t he?

52173 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #783 of 1595 🔗

Odd sort of Gove?

52127 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #784 of 1595 🔗

Nope can’t find one pro lockdown comment. But I can guarantee you if I shared this video on my Facebook page a good third of the people on there would be completely happy with another lockdown.

52279 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to ambwozere, 1, #785 of 1595 🔗

Maybe you need to purge your page!

52154 Will, replying to Will, 7, #786 of 1595 🔗

I won’t be wearing a face nappy until legally required and will be permanently boycotting any shops that bring in the rule, before it becomes law, so need to find a new butcher. I just undertook my weekly Tesco run and was quite heartened to see the absence of face nappies on customers and shop workers.

52160 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Will, 6, #787 of 1595 🔗

Perhaps we need to resist even after i becomes law.

52164 ▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #788 of 1595 🔗

List of exemptions from the gov.uk: if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own

52281 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to PaulK, 1, #789 of 1595 🔗

That’s the one. Think about it – it’s a catch-all. But taking the piss iss also a good idea.

52323 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to PaulK, 4, #790 of 1595 🔗

I presume it does not state the exact mechanism by which the face masks need to cause severe distress for the exemption to be valid in which case why don’t we say if challenged that ‘Being forced to wear a face mask by fascist totalitarians causes me severe distress therefore the I am exempt’.

52506 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PaulK, 2, #791 of 1595 🔗

if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress

That’ll do!

52272 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #792 of 1595 🔗

No perhaps about it.

52504 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Saved To Death, #793 of 1595 🔗

Definitely!

52183 ▶▶ John P, replying to Will, 3, #794 of 1595 🔗

“I won’t be wearing a face nappy until legally required”

Outside of the dentists and hospital I intend never to wear one.

52184 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Will, 5, #795 of 1595 🔗

I won’t be complying with this law except under direct and immediate duress, just as I chose not to comply with the seat-belt law, and for much the same reasons. It’s for an individual to choose how much risk to face, and the potential spread of disease of the level of ordinary seasonal bugs is not any justification for some kind of duty to change one’s behaviour profoundly, nor for government to impose such a change.

52190 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mark, 2, #796 of 1595 🔗

(Also linked by Paul below). The government records an exemption:

“if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress”



52196 ▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Mark, -17, #797 of 1595 🔗

Well my taxes pay to repair your increased injuries. Your actions do impact others. If you were unfortunate enough to contract HIV then you would be expected and required to take precautions not to spread it.

52223 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BoneyKnee, 8, #798 of 1595 🔗

1 The argument that nationalised healthcare overrides personal liberty is fatuous (and evil, for whatever that might be worth), and this has been pointed out to you before.

2 HIV is not Covid, not even close. Covid is comparable to seasonal coughs and colds. Which is explicitly part of the point that I made in the comment to which you purport to be replying.

52232 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to BoneyKnee, 7, #799 of 1595 🔗

But he doesn’t have coronavirus. And neither does anyone else being forced to wear masks.

52343 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BoneyKnee, #800 of 1595 🔗

Boney knee. Good name by the way i like it. How do you feel about the influenza situation? In terms of the number of yearly deaths caused by an association with influenza.

52508 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #801 of 1595 🔗

He’s a troll, so not qualified to answer that question.

53021 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, #802 of 1595 🔗

Even a troll is entitled to free speech. I am interested to understand his motivating convictions.

54366 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Cheezilla, #803 of 1595 🔗

Not a troll just someone with somewhat mainstream views. Very well qualified indeed.

54373 ▶▶▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Basics, #804 of 1595 🔗

That’s a good point. I am here because I do think the pandemic is being mismanaged – but not in the way most here see it or that we are being “too lax”. CV-19 is not yet well understood. It is filling ICU’s again in the USA. Surprisingly the transmission is not understood fully. The role of surfaces and aerosols isn’t really properly covered. There are many communicable diseases and we seem to have most of them under control. CV-19 is running in a different way infecting millions and killing a lot. Is it worth crashing the economy and all the death and illness that goes with that? No. Should we just carry as is ? No. That’s a false dichotomy. Are masks a big freedom issues? No. You have to cover your genitals in London. I find this anti-government verging on conspiracy and rights based arguments to be missing the health issues.

52444 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to BoneyKnee, 3, #805 of 1595 🔗

Other peoples’ taxes will pay for the increased illness caused by mask wearing – caused by reduced immune systems, reduced oxygen intake and increased infections from mask wearers not changing their masks frequently enough, leading to illness.

52500 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BoneyKnee, 4, #806 of 1595 🔗

And if you’re unfortunate enough to contract Covid, you usually stay at home (precautions) until you’re well again. People have been getting sick and dealing with it this way for tens of thousands of years. I don’t think we’ve forgotten.

52507 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BoneyKnee, 1, #807 of 1595 🔗

DON’T FEED THE TROLL!

52172 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 3, #808 of 1595 🔗

Don’t know if this has been reported here all ready as it’s very hard to keep track, but in Australia the Black Lives Matter protest has been linked to tower cluster COVID-19 cases in Melbourne:
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/coronavirus-black-lives-matter-protest-linked-to-tower-cluster/news-story/197ffe79f3e0044be2ee1495c5708364

52215 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, #809 of 1595 🔗

And there I was thinking God had resigned his retributory duties in protest…

52243 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 5, #810 of 1595 🔗

As I was told by a supporter on Twitter, “I think protesting is more important than the COVID-19 pandemic”. Bit of a strange argument when she was saying “Black Lives Matter” but then “f*ck the lives of anyone that get’s COVID-19”. Her tweets indicated that when she wasn’t out protesting (if she ever left her sofa that is), she was an ardent Lockdown Zealot!

52325 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 1, #811 of 1595 🔗

Of course, any legitimate protest is in fact far more important than a flu-level disease, but since she’s apparently one of those making out covid is some kind of disastrous plague, that argument’s not as easily available to her, even if BLM were a legitimate protest movement and not an evil politically manipulative and emotionally manipulated mob based upon outright lies.

52349 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to JohnB, 1, #812 of 1595 🔗

She means BLM protests of course, not any other sort of protest.

52355 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to JohnB, 1, #813 of 1595 🔗

When you say linked, what do you mean (the Australian is paywalled)? I have heard of only three ‘protesters’ (read: ‘miscreants’) who were said to have tested positive and as far as I’m aware they were believed to have caught it before attending (i.e. they didn’t catch it there).

52438 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #814 of 1595 🔗

Racists !

52175 Mark, replying to Mark, 5, #815 of 1595 🔗

I recall a few weeks back there were a couple of reports of government officials in countries that had locked down declaring that they either would not lock down if the same situation were to arise again or at least would not close schools. Denmark, possibly Norway and one or two others, I seem to recall. Can anyone confirm who has said this so far and whether it was ultimately rolled back?

52179 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 4, #816 of 1595 🔗

I remember those too. I am pretty sure France and Spain said they would not have nationwide lockdowns again, and maybe even Italy. Sorry I don’t have the links, am meant to be working…sure someone can find them.

52230 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Julian, 9, #817 of 1595 🔗

Read in a Spanish paper yesterday that the government was looking at ways other than declaring a state of alarm, which was used for the last mass incarceration, to do it again. This includes usurping powers claimed by regional governments. At the moment regional governments have the powers to introduce local mass imprisonment which has happened in Catalonia and the Northern region of Galicia already. A judge ruled the measure in Catalonia illegal but it went ahead anyway, backed by central government. Unbelievably, they,are talking about shutting bars and cafes again in the middle of summer. Criminal insanity.

52259 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to paulito, 1, #818 of 1595 🔗

Could this be as much to do with Spain’s internal politics?

52309 ▶▶▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Cicatriz, 7, #819 of 1595 🔗

Absolutely. Reported spikes recently in Galicia and the Basque Country both of which just happened to have had elections to their respective autonomous parliaments last Sunday. But the point is, for whatever the reasons, I wouldn’t put anything past this increasingly desperate bunch of criminals, including another nationwide imprisonment.

52348 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, 4, #820 of 1595 🔗

Definitely France, and I’m pretty sure Norway as well – they said they didn’t need to have gone into lockdown in the first place.

52437 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 4, #821 of 1595 🔗

Yes. The whole of Scandinavia. France. Germany. And yes I think Italy. Also there’s the countries who have tried to re-impose lockdown and been roundly defeated by public reprisal – Serbia. The Netherlands (I think?). Czech Republic (I think?)

52488 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Farinances, 3, #822 of 1595 🔗

I also heard Albania and Bulgaria governments got a bloody nose when they tried to reimpose or impose a lockdown. Not reported in the press of course.

52615 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, #823 of 1595 🔗

Any links, especially for the Scandi ones? I’m sure I remember such statements for Denmark and/or Norway that were excellent for dealing with people criticising Sweden.

52518 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark, 4, #824 of 1595 🔗

Japan have gone as far as saying they’re not going to let their health experts have as much influence on decision making even though they never locked down nor, I don’t think, even considered it.

52187 Mimi, replying to Mimi, 19, #826 of 1595 🔗

The small town of Whitefish, Montana, has just implemented a 30-day mask requirement. We’ve booked a vacation there and in Glacier National Park because, as U.S. citizens, our trip to Switzerland is now off the table. (We were supposed to leave today….) Evidently Glacier is slammed with visitors, and it’s difficult to distance even on hiking trails.

I’m really not sure I want to go now. Masked hiking and vacationing doesn’t sound fun. I’ve already stopped going shopping in person – I seem to have some mental block about wearing masks. They make me feel desperate.

One of my current pleasures is walking downtown with my husband to eat at one of the restaurants that’s open – we’ve been doing that since May, when they were allowed to reopen, and it’s fun and not scary and lo, we don’t all die! But if the city starts insisting on masks in all public places, even on the sidewalks, I’m not going. I want to be able to talk to my husband, and I can’t with a mask.

Woke up last night in a panic that this rule might even be applied to anyone leaving their houses, which it has been in some places. I run 3.5 miles every morning and walk the same with my husband in the afternoon. I can’t do that in a mask – I just can’t. Even if it weren’t 93 degrees, I couldn’t do it.

This sort of thing is what gives me suicidal thoughts. It really does. I feel like living only gets worse, and I can’t for the life of me figure out what the ultimate goal is. How much more freedom can they take from us? And why should we keep trying if life has no pleasure or hope?

52204 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Mimi, 5, #827 of 1595 🔗

All my thoughts in one Mimi, I looked at a picture of people on an Easyjet flight all masked and it made it difficult to breathe, my brain was saying how do they breathe?

I dread any mandatory mask laws, I can avoid shops. My fear is they will make it law inside so any dancing I do inside would have to be done with a mask on.

I wish I knew a solution to all of this, cos yes it really doesn’t help with mental health at all.

I hope you are okay and perhaps try and find a holiday somewhere where you don’t feel too stressed by all the silly rules.

52260 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mimi, 16, #828 of 1595 🔗

I seem to have some mental block about wearing masks.”

Be reassured – that’s a *normal* reaction. F. the ‘new’ normal and the attempts to redefine civil society to suit narrow interest groups.

I have a mental block about wearing a pointed hat, white face and a red nose just because someone tells me to … or, indeed, standing on my head, or doing anything that I’m told to do without checking the request with my brain. I thought we had learned something about dumb compliance after millions of my parents’ generation had been slaughtered resisting the barmy impulses of a funny little man with a toothbrush moustache reminiscent of Charlie Chaplin. We should have learned then that narcissistic buffoons can be dangerous – Eton educated or otherwise.

As to the psychological effects of planned induced mass psychosis …. is there a case to be made in international law?

52268 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mimi, 16, #829 of 1595 🔗

I just cancelled a four-day break in a hotel in Buxton, one of my favourite places, because I couldn’t stand the idea of four days of meals in solitary confinement plus hours spent among masked zombies. I told them why I had cancelled.

52331 ▶▶▶ MRG, replying to annie, 2, #830 of 1595 🔗

Annie, my other half was in the Old Hall Hotel for breakfast on Saturday morning. She said is was quiet but rather normal with no masks, just a few sanitiser dispensers dotted around.

52351 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to MRG, 6, #831 of 1595 🔗

That’s nice to know – love Old Hall – but I was going to be with two elderly and disabled friends and there would have been no fun and no escape. They agreed.
When we originally booked it was for the Gilbert and Sullivan festival. We normally go every year. Always four shining days of fun and enjoyment. Until…

53175 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to annie, #832 of 1595 🔗

Yes I agree…even day trips can be a miserable experience unless you go to somewhere so remote you dont see anyone!

52344 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mimi, 4, #833 of 1595 🔗

I feel the same, I sympathise so much. I’ve never felt so desperate than I have about all this.

53049 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Mimi, #834 of 1595 🔗

Me too, just refuse to wear one, don’t like the thought of it and also feel furious at the enforcement. If people were dropping dead everywhere maybe it would be justified but its no where near that, plus the obvious lies about the whole thing.

52188 Lockdown Truth, 3, #835 of 1595 🔗

Hi all

Are there any polling industry whistleblowers out there who know of data contradicting the official narrative that most people like lockdown?

Please get in touch here: https://www.lockdowntruth.org/about

Thanks

52193 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 20, #836 of 1595 🔗

Some very encouraging signs out on a visit to the tip just now in darkest Staffordshire.

10 minute wait to get in, due to the numbers of cars waiting and nothing else. No social distancing, no masks, staff cheerful and helpful, other than hi-vis and safety boots no PPE wearing by the staff, people talking to each other and making contact – just like the old normal.

Decided to have a treat for lunch and stopped in the local village for pie and chips from the chip shop. Apart from the stupid useless plastic screens no social distancing, no staff in PPE, signs all slowly disappearing, cash only.

Couple of vulnerable mask wearers outside the GPs (only queue anywhere) and an uber driver – they don’t tend to come out into the sticks so that was a noticeable event seeing one of them and uber enforce their drivers to wear one at all times so not his fault.

The only 2 masks I saw were worn by a 60ish driver who was in the car alone and driving along and a 60ish man going into a newsagents.

Other than that saw no-one wearing a mask and must have passed a hundred plus people and 30 at the tip, not even under their chin ready.

Maybe us country bumpkins don’t understand how serious we are in so much danger like the townies.

52202 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #837 of 1595 🔗

Even in town yesterday there was very little mask wearing. I was out and about in a suburb of Oxford. No shopkeepers and very few punters wearing masks. A visit to the vets – the staff were all masked up and I had to leave my cat at the door – couldn’t go in with him. A couple of older men wearing masks as neck warmers walking the street. Checked with my wife who had gone into the Coop – very small number (of punters) wearing masks – staff largely unmasked.

52220 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ozzie, 3, #838 of 1595 🔗

I don’t go into any reasonable size town much at all, only when I cannot avoid it but got to go to Norwich later next week for a meeting so will see what it’s like there.

Good to hear about the lack of blind obedience coming from anywhere.

52370 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #839 of 1595 🔗

Well maybe. Just back from my afternoon walk. Met the chap opposite who was heading to Tesco in a blue mask. Commented that he didn’t need to wear one outside – at which point he said ‘pardon’ and moved right up to me to hear. I also found his voice muffled and not easy to follow. He didn’t agree with me when I started to talk about Boris and his stupid ideas.

A little further on passed a young woman with kid in pushchair, She needed to give the kid her rattle (I think) and I saw her sanitising her hands then rubbing the rattle down with same and a tissue. They certainly seem to be obsessed with this sanitiser stuff which doesn’t kill the (not living) virus and just moves it to the next surface to be cleaned.

52496 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to davews, 3, #840 of 1595 🔗

Poison your kid instead. Good plan!

52206 ▶▶ John P, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #841 of 1595 🔗

“Maybe us country bumpkins don’t understand how serious we are in so much danger like the townies.”

No, I think this is common everywhere. I have even heard a rumour that an unmuzzled bus driver was seen in Leicester last week.

Actually I think your (welcome) relaxed attitude partly explains the imposition of the muzzle wearing policy. The government are keen to keep everyone “alert” (ie, scared) and see relaxation as harmful – as though being scared half to death is some sort of cure.

They seem convinced of this “second wave” even though we know that we may well already have “herd immunity” and we know that there is no evidence of any kind to suppose there will ever be a “second wave”. Government ministers are simply not intelligent enough to understand that the science on this is not fixed, but evolving.

The sight of muzzled shoppers is clearly going to increase fear and I think the idea is in part demonstrate to people that they will not be permitted to go back to their old lives.

52247 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to John P, 2, #842 of 1595 🔗

Since the country cannot afford another ruinous lockdown anyway, what’s the point in prophesying doom?

52258 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bugle, 6, #843 of 1595 🔗

I think the government is reasonably confident there won’t be a second wave, doesn’t want another long national lockdown, but wants to keep the fear levels up to retain the control they currently have and cover up their blunder. If we simply go back to normal now and the sky doesn’t fall in, people will ask awkward questions. I could be wrong, and they could actually believe all this stuff. But it’s hard to tell – they are not exactly being transparent.

52336 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Julian, 4, #844 of 1595 🔗

I think they also want the fear levels up to force out vaccines in the autumn. The coincidence with fresh apocalyptic crap from Patrick ‘GSK’ Vallance says it all.

52495 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #845 of 1595 🔗

More fresh air in the sticks!

52194 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 17, #846 of 1595 🔗

Blackford is blabbering on about the Scottish economy going down the pan. They just dont get it, friends from Edinburgh, retired would be off on their travels now, as would their friends around Scotland spending money in hotels etc, but are not. The forced masking of them has stopped it, they dont want to have to wear them. The Scottish government can say all they want about people just accepting them but people are just getting the necessary to survive and going home.

52208 ▶▶ Will, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #847 of 1595 🔗

I am boycotting everything Scottish as long as that hateful woman is first minister.

52551 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Will, 1, #848 of 1595 🔗

Reasonable action to take genuinely. Thank you for doing so.

52807 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Will, 1, #849 of 1595 🔗

Wish we could, ie those who live here.

52217 ▶▶ peter, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #850 of 1595 🔗

Sturgeon has issued a press blackout on news about her leaving her husband for another female.

52228 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to peter, 2, #851 of 1595 🔗

How do you know about it then?

52558 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, #852 of 1595 🔗

There has been quite a lot of column inches taken by said rumour. You could argue that in a depressing little political backwater like holyrood has become these kind of rumours appear. Sturgeon denied having a quote “exotic life style” in a tv interview, related to a portrait of her painted as a red leather wearing dominatrix. I recall some blackout being inflicted over the whole affair. Cannot say I care.

52810 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to John P, #853 of 1595 🔗

The rumours are true.

52280 ▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to peter, -9, #854 of 1595 🔗

Oh, news blackout ordered under the Total Invented Internet Posts Act of 1837 then?

52224 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #855 of 1595 🔗

Blackford is an obese buffoon who never accepts that anything the Holyrood Headbangers have inflicted on us could possibly have anything to do with the dire state we’re in up here.

Finger pointing, grievances galore, but the buck always stops at Westminster.

Of course, he’s paid plenty to bore his colleagues in the HOC to death .

52334 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #856 of 1595 🔗

They can make us wear masks in shops, but they can’t make us actually go to the shops… not yet at least.

52199 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #857 of 1595 🔗

Is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that when they bring out all these laws they are deliberately leaving them full of loopholes and get-outs then go and tell us how not to comply – e.g. the farce over not having to wear a mask if it causes you “distress” or not having to prove a medical exemption but just tell whoever verbally and no need to justify.

I suffer from white coat syndrome (will have to research the proper name for fear of doctors/medical appliances)quite badly so anything medical like this will cause me distress so no mask for me.

I seem to remember Boris done it a few times especially after the first change and the loosening of the lockdown rules.

Is it too much to hope that this is being deliberately done to annoy those who are giving them the orders just to screw up the agenda or are they just incompetent idiots?

52210 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #858 of 1595 🔗

Yes – I had wondered that – but it depends on how hysterical the bedwetters become. There is a chance that people will forget about complying after a week or two and there will be very few fines, etc. I recall this occurring with the 14 day quarantine into the UK in June.

52305 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ozzie, 4, #859 of 1595 🔗

They back-tracked on the quarantine by allowing air bridges, so it didn’t look like they were doing a u turn. Not sure how they could do the same with masks, other than further increasing the list of exemptions or coming up with some marvellous new “Science”.

52214 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Awkward Git, 19, #860 of 1595 🔗

I also think that we keep coming back to the fact that the Government over-reacted to a mild disease, completely stuffed the economy and now needs to keep justifying its poor decisions.

52237 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ozzie, 6, #861 of 1595 🔗

I feel that’s too generous an assessment for a full explanation. I’ve always leaned towards ‘cock-up’ as a generally more usual explanation for such things, but I’m seeing too much willful engineering (see the Academy of Medical Sciences report) for such a generous explanation to be all-embracing.

52269 ▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Ozzie, -19, #862 of 1595 🔗

This clearly is not true. The Government is desperate to get the economy moving as is Trump. They will do anything to achieve this aim. They are both unashamed of U-turning. They certainly won;t just plough on knowing it is the wrong move.

52306 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BoneyKnee, 4, #863 of 1595 🔗

They will do anything to achieve this aim

Anything, except for anything that might actually cost them, personally or politically, unduly, such as admitting they made a catastrophic blunder in a blind panic.

Unfortunately, although much of the damage they have done by their panic reaction is already baked in, most of the ongoing and future damage that could still be mitigated relates to the continuation of the fear they sowed, and is therefore only preventable if they admit their error.

So we will carry on paying an ever increasing price for the abject failure of our ruling elite, both in and out of government.

52315 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to BoneyKnee, 3, #864 of 1595 🔗

I feel like they are desperate too, but they are more petrified of having any more deaths pinned on them, so the economy is only second priority.

52318 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to BoneyKnee, 2, #865 of 1595 🔗

I don’t have the energy to think about Trump right now, but certainly the UK government will want to get the economy moving if only because they want to be re-elected in 4 and a half years time.

I don’t think it’s true to say they’ll do “anything” to achieve this aim – for example, one approach would be to remove all restrictions now and get back to normal. That would get us there quicker, but they won’t be doing that.

Are you saying the government has u-turned? I suppose they changed the guidance on masks, but that’s not exactly a u-turn. They are more or less sticking to their story – lockdown was necessary and right, saved hundreds of thousands of lives, there is danger of a second wave unless we stick to restrictions, take things one step at a time.

I guess the major u-turn was abandoning the pretence that lockdown was short term measure to flatten the curve, and moving to the need to eradicate the virus, stay locked down until the vaccine is found. Assuming it was a pretence and not simply that they blundered into lockdown without realising they had no viable exit strategy.

52333 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, 3, #866 of 1595 🔗

Remember back in March, SAGE only predicted that 20% of us would stop going to work under the lockdown (or something like that), but nearly everyone stopped? And hardly any kids kept going to school, when they’d planned for many more? Before then, perhaps they actually were planning on a short lockdown, because they thought people wouldn’t tolerate it. But once they realised that we really would all stay meekly at home, quaking under the bed, they moved to a total eradication policy because they thought our compliance would make it possible.

52418 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #867 of 1595 🔗

Don’t forget the unceasing propaganda from the MSM from January onwards, warning us a new Black Death was upon us, millions were going to die worldwide, etc, etc.

52487 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BoneyKnee, #868 of 1595 🔗

DON’T FEED THE TROLL!!!!!

52285 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Ozzie, 1, #869 of 1595 🔗

spot on. That is exactly what this nonsense is all about. Nothing else.

52245 ▶▶ John P, replying to Awkward Git, -1, #870 of 1595 🔗

“Is it too much to hope that this is being deliberately done to annoy those who are giving them the orders”

Sorry, what are you saying here?

Are you suggesting that Boris Johnson is not in charge? Okay:

NAMES.

PROOF.

Thank you.

52270 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to John P, 5, #871 of 1595 🔗

That’s why I was asking, what is the reason for seemingly undermining their own legislation time after time? Doesn’t make sense and I would like someone to explain why and give an explanation that actually makes some sort of sense.

As to names – I’ll throw into the ring Bill Gates, George Soros, Khazarian mafia, the medical and military industrial complex, Rothschilds, Rockerfellers, “13 famillies/bloodlines”, Greens, Russia, Communists, Nazis from Operation Paperclip.

Take your pick from your favourite conspiracy of choice, there’s hundreds to choose from.

Proof – lots of coincidences with the same names, groups, organisations etc popping up time and time again for the past 100-150 years but nothing that is 100% certifiable proof as yet.

As to Boris, he’s never had a handle on things, his speeches are totally incoherent, he goes off on tangents, cannot seem to complete a sentence and gives the impression that he does not believe a thing that is coming out of his mouth.

52262 ▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Awkward Git, -21, #872 of 1595 🔗

Yes. You don’t need 100% compliance with measures for them to be effective. A few idiots not following guidelines will not defeat them. So, if the warriors here act in defiance it will make little difference provided most of us act to slow the spread. I know when I where a mask it is but the first step to my mind-control and that I need to listen to more David Icke to free myself. But I am just a feeble minded sheeple after all.

52288 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BoneyKnee, 3, #873 of 1595 🔗

Fuckwit’s the word you’re looking for.

52289 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to BoneyKnee, 6, #874 of 1595 🔗

What does David Icke have to do with it?

There are plenty of statements from “reputable” sources (UK government, WHO) that wearing masks does very little, if anything, and no compelling evidence I have been shown that says they make a difference. As with lockdown, the burden of proof should be on the person who is suggesting unprecedented and obviously damaging measures to prove that they do more good than harm.

As for the “warriors here”, I don’t consider myself a warrior, just someone who started off taking the pandemic at face value and became increasingly sceptical the more I looked into it.

52314 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BoneyKnee, 4, #875 of 1595 🔗

The ‘David Icke’ stuff is all the sh** pumped out by government that doesn’t bear half an hour’s examination by an intelligent brain.

Ten days ago, the ONS estimate for community infection was 1 in 3,900. That must now be around 1 in 10000.

provided most of us act to slow the spread”

Thing is … there is a natural massive natural decrease in spread – or haven’t you clocked that minor detail??? (Have a look at the CEBM website)

52421 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BoneyKnee, 2, #876 of 1595 🔗

So tell me, when you go from “stand-at-ease” to “attention”, how high do you lift that bony knee?

52490 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BoneyKnee, 2, #877 of 1595 🔗

TROLL ALERT!

52299 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #878 of 1595 🔗

Whoever Mason Mills is on twitter (and I know he says he’s not Cummings), he’s confusing the issue even further, saying that if you don’t want to wear one you should just go to shops that don’t enforce it.

52403 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #879 of 1595 🔗

Always wondered who he is – as Julian said on here yesterday, if it is Cummings then it’s really unprofessional and childish for a top government advisor to tweet anonymously from an account with a Bitmoji as its profile picture. Still, he gets a lot of messages from people who talk to him as if they are addressing Cummings and he doesn’t confirm or deny.

52412 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #880 of 1595 🔗

Whoever he is the day before masks were to be mandated,he predicted the exact date.

52821 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Awkward Git, #881 of 1595 🔗

I’ve wondered that as well, but then decided that such a strategy was far too clever for them to have worked out.

52211 Catherine, 6, #882 of 1595 🔗

Given Boris’s view on burqas, I am thinking, if I cannot get away with not being muzzled (my first option) to get a burqa hood. Fairly cheap on Amazon, and provocative.

52213 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, #883 of 1595 🔗

Interesting article in the Spectator about WWII gas masks:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/britain-s-first-face-mask-debate

52250 ▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to A. Contrarian, -6, #884 of 1595 🔗

Interesting. The daft conclusion that it was a case of “Project Fear” is ludicrous. There was a war where millions lost their lives. Poisonous gas was a factor in that war and the idea of gas attacks was a real risk. The Germans chose not to do it or couldn’t get their act together to do it. The naming this as Project Fear, i.e., making the population aware of and preparing for a very real danger demonstrates to me how mad The Spectator has become. But otherwise an interesting article.

52292 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to BoneyKnee, #885 of 1595 🔗

Agreed, they definitely had something real to be afraid of. I didn’t know that there was debate over making gas masks mandatory however, so I’ve learned something new!

52408 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BoneyKnee, 2, #886 of 1595 🔗

The Germans decided not to use chemical weapons after containers carried as deck cargo aboard a merchant vessel were spotted. Coincidentally these were almost exactly the same shape as German nerve gas containers and the Nazis decided they couldn’t take the risk…

Incidentally, this is a lucky escape because the attacks we feared were of the chlorine or mustard gases such as were used in the First World War. A gas mask alone is useless against a nerve agent, which can be absorbed through the skin.

So the first use of (gas) masks would have proved as useless as the second use of (face) masks will prove to be.

52229 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #887 of 1595 🔗

https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/18577026.vandals-destroyed-signs-wrexham-town-centre-identified/

All the signs were social-distancing signage. Was this mindless vandalism or was it direct action?

52254 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #888 of 1595 🔗

What they need to do is spray paint the signage, give your name as “Banksy” and you will be instantly let off.

52267 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #889 of 1595 🔗

BLM also springs to mind. 🙂

52275 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #890 of 1595 🔗

True, just pop you badge on and you’re fine!

52342 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #891 of 1595 🔗

They get my medal for correctly targeted vandalism. It’s something I know a bit about.

52402 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #892 of 1595 🔗

This is the same Leader last week exhorting us to enjoy our “new” freedoms responsibly. Referring to the imminent reopening of pubs (happened on Monday btw in Wales).

I have already informed the editor that these are not “new” freedoms, merely the partial restoration of old ones after the government’s power grab in March.

52484 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #893 of 1595 🔗

Identified? Don’t tell me they weren’t wearing masks?!

52542 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, #894 of 1595 🔗

That’s how we know it’s an act by the Resistance.

52233 PaulK, replying to PaulK, 9, #895 of 1595 🔗

Apologies if you are aware, but for those that haven’t check out Dr Vernon Coleman’s excellent videos on YouTube. I’m surprised they have not been censored.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6F39mg7LPUkw1BfiJDibw/videos?disable_polymer=1

52242 ▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to PaulK, -21, #896 of 1595 🔗

I have watched some of them. The man has gone ga-ga. Total tripe.

52248 ▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to BoneyKnee, 1, #897 of 1595 🔗

Please elaborate BoneyKnee, if you wish.

52264 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to PaulK, 4, #898 of 1595 🔗

Or please sod off if you’d prefer.

52278 ▶▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to JohnB, 1, #899 of 1595 🔗

Well exactly JohnB. It’s his choice.

52295 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, 3, #900 of 1595 🔗

Sorry to gum up LS, but, JohnB, you’ve provided me with my laugh out loud moment again … thanks 🙂

52423 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 1, #901 of 1595 🔗

🙂

52630 ▶▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to PaulK, -5, #902 of 1595 🔗

Errr… CDC and my GP and all doctors as “terrorists” because …. it’s to stupid to repeat. The video is fact free. Vernon just spouts his opinion. So sad to see Ferrari drivers wearing masks…what? Send them to the “loony bin” hmm…. Then we move on to the ecological impact of racing cars and…. Sorry where is this headed? Or we’re slagging off Lewis Hamilton now….

Apparently there’s a war going on for the control of our souls (or is that arseholes?). Had Vernon being watching too much Sentinel?

Oh now he is coming to oil…and climate change is not real. It’s just promoted by celebrities. Oh… so Madonna must have invented it in the 80’s…with the Chinese.

I can’t take any more of some old geezer rambling. Oh..now oil is running out… This is bollocks. We are awash with hydrocarbons. It’s everywhere. He really had no clue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iKgZ4K1tJk

52427 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BoneyKnee, 2, #903 of 1595 🔗

Welcome back! I’ve missed you!

52241 Will, replying to Will, 1, #904 of 1595 🔗

Does someone require a doctors note for a face nappy exemption?

52253 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Will, 10, #906 of 1595 🔗

We need the courage to exempt ourselves. Don’t wear them. Take the fine on the chin, or be prepared to be arrested if you refuse to pay the fine. Clog up the courts, clog up the system. we need to make this ‘law’ unenforceable.

52261 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mr Dee, #907 of 1595 🔗

Will be doing this at home, Mr Dee. But flying to see family abroad is a bit of a crunch point,

52376 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to JohnB, 1, #908 of 1595 🔗

Yes, Mrs Dee and I will be flying to Austria in November (masks there only in supermarkets apparently). Not too sure how to tackle the issue of masks at the airport or midflight. Though that time of year I’m usually be-scarfed up to my eyes anyway.

52448 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #909 of 1595 🔗

Thinking of airlines will the air stewardess (that’s probably un-pc) when doing the safety checks have to put on a mask then take it off to put on an oxygen mask to show the people wearing masks how to take off their mask to put on an oxygen mask. Phew, that’s a lot of masks.

52475 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, 1, #910 of 1595 🔗

If they’re not doing the inflight service stuff, surely they’re not going to be patrolling the aisles looking for naughty mask-evaders.

52265 ▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #911 of 1595 🔗

I won’t be wearing one Mr Dee because they will cause me severe distress, as does the entire war on our population. I’ll happily go to court if necessary and fight.

52341 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to PaulK, 4, #912 of 1595 🔗

We could start a fund to support our folk through any s…t they run into.

52371 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 1, #913 of 1595 🔗

I’d be happy to help with that, Annie.

52335 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mr Dee, 12, #914 of 1595 🔗

However, the police don’t seem to be intent on even trying to enforce the new rule and supermarkets seem to be intending their staff to leave well alone. This may be simultaneously a white elephant, a red herring and a damp squib: a pretty impressive feat!

52474 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #915 of 1595 🔗

It already is unenforcable!
You’d have to be really asking for trouble to get the police involved. They don’t want the paperwork – and let’s face it they don’t want to wear masks to go shopping either!

52257 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Will, #916 of 1595 🔗

The airlines are likely to require one, I guess.

52286 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Will, 11, #917 of 1595 🔗

Any medical conditions you have are confidential between you + your GP. So in theory, you don’t have to give any explanation as to why you can’t wear a mask

Worth noting I think!

52453 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kbeanie, 7, #918 of 1595 🔗

100%!! Wearing a mask gives me the heebie geebies and causes me distress. My medical history is private, unless my GP is moonlighting as a shelf stacker in Morrisons.

52494 ▶▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to stefarm, 1, #919 of 1595 🔗

And I actually do have a condition that I believe would allow me to be genuinely exempt. But I’d honestly rather just not have to go down that road as it seems like a bit of a failure, i.e. not really expressing my feelings, more just avoiding the issue instead of taking a stand?

52479 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kbeanie, 1, #920 of 1595 🔗

Yes. 2010 Equalities Act.

52471 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Will, 2, #922 of 1595 🔗

No.
And you’ll be lucky to find a doctor who can be arsed to help you – unless it’s for a fee of course.

52273 Edward Giles, 14, #923 of 1595 🔗

Been to Tesco and B & Q this morning. In both about 70% not wearing muzzles. Very few staff wearing them. So not much evidence of the majority of people wanting to wear them.
No longer have to queue to get into Tesco and since they have done away with the one way system every one moves about much more easily and virtually no queues for the check outs. Also no staff members wandering around with the “keep 2 metres apart or we are all going to die” boards. Therefore pretty normal and much more pleasant than it was a couple of weeks ago but I doubt it will be from the 24th when we will all be required to act as if the Black Death has returned.

52276 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 7, #924 of 1595 🔗

So face masks are yet to be made compulsory in Wales, although it is only a matter of time before Drakeford of course follows along willingly to Johnson and co. You may be thinking Wales is therefore a bit more liberal, perhaps because we have much lower figures across the board? You would be woefully mistaken. Similar to England, Wales revoked the coronavirus act and replaced it with a no.2 on 10th July. Whereas the English restrictions were substantially relaxed, with many going under the radar such as theatres now being allowed by law to open, Wales hardly modified any restrictions. But what they did do was significantly tighten the guidelines to now be easier to enforce. 2m guidance is mandatory in workplaces and business premises. These must take all reasonable measures to protect from the spread of COVID. Still no more than 2 households can meet, enforceable by fine. Now, an “enforcement officer only has to have ‘reasonable grounds for suspecting’ a contravention and to “consider” it necessary and proportionate to issue the notice.” And there are a lot of circumstances where if there really is a serious and imminent danger of COVID where, how could they not have reasonable grounds to fine?
All things considered it is truly diabolical what the Welsh government is enforcing on its citizens, and sooner or later they will be held to account.

http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/welcome-to-wales/

Welcome to Wales. Croeso i Gymru.

52284 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #925 of 1595 🔗

It’s all very odd given that Drakeford is dithering about masks because he’s thinks any new measures need to be “proportionate”.

52433 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #926 of 1595 🔗

This would make a fantastic comedy if it wasn’t so real

52347 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Youth_Unheard, 8, #927 of 1595 🔗

On the plus side, most people where I live in Wales seem to be ignoring the rules. I noticed that since Drakeford recommended people wear face masks in shops, fewer people wore face masks in shops. Come the elections (if there are any from now on), Drakeford’s days are numbered. And as for enforcement officers – none to be seen, not by me anyway. It’s all blather, from my perspective anyway.

52429 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #928 of 1595 🔗

That is true, from the few ventures in supermarkets it seems to be about 20% wearing, and almost exclusively 60-70 year olds or young under 25s trying to be be as ultra caring as possible. It seems the oldest ones going out couldn’t care less funny enough!

53183 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Youth_Unheard, #929 of 1595 🔗

I have seen more 30s couples with young children all wearing masks including the kids. I presume thats to show us all what good parents they are.

52294 Splendid Acres, 1, #930 of 1595 🔗

I read an article on the mask situation today and commented to my partner, something along the lines of ‘how much sillier can this get’ when my daughter piped up

“Germs are in the air all the time, and if you can breathe through the mask, you can breathe the germs in and out,”

She’s just turned 8. There’s hope for us yet.

52468 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Joseph Collins, 6, #932 of 1595 🔗

Covers most bases:

comment image

52517 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Joseph Collins, #933 of 1595 🔗

Concerning text below the exemption cards though:

Helpful resources for wearing and encouraging the use of face coverings Where possible, it’s important to try and encourage children and young people to wear face masks. This article has some good advice here about how to support young people in using/tolerating masks. Although this article is specifically about those who have autism many of the tips could be used with most young people who are showing reluctance.

52553 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ozzie, 3, #934 of 1595 🔗

Encourage kids to think for themselves and research, not just swallow it hook, line and sinker.

That’s why we now have 2 generations of mainly SJWs and snowflakes who follwo trends and not independnet thinking.

52326 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #935 of 1595 🔗

Beverley Turner on Twitter worth a look. Esp thepublic/private item.

52465 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #936 of 1595 🔗

Link would be helpful please.

52329 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 5, #938 of 1595 🔗

Okay so this is an unrelated question/observation, but I know this will be the best outlet to post on.

My mum + stepdad have gone to Westfield today. She text me earlier this afternoon to say how much of a shite experience it is overall. When I asked if it was regarding all the restrictions, she replied with ‘Yeah, some places don’t allow browsing. Which is difficult when you’re not sure what you’re looking for’

Has anyone else had this issue? I’ve been into shops, not actual inside shopping centres but high streets etc, and I’ve had no one telling me I can’t browse?!

52337 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to kbeanie, 5, #939 of 1595 🔗

Superdrug (Scotland) was asking people on the door what they were intending on buying before allowing them in. This was a few weeks ago, long before facemasks were made compulsory.

That’s the only place I’ve heard about. Don’t imagine many people going out to window shop these days though.

52340 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #940 of 1595 🔗

I can understand it happening back when we were only allowed to do essential shopping, i.e. not taking ages browsing the shelves etc. But now you’ve got places open that are often a hub of impulse purchases, it seems counterintuitive to deny people the opportunity to browse? Surely most places would be grateful for any footfall that may result in a purchase?

52345 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to kbeanie, 4, #941 of 1595 🔗

I think part of the issue, particularly for bigger brands/chains, is the negative publicity if they are seen to not care about public health.

In these cases it’s as much for PR as anything.

52378 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #942 of 1595 🔗

What about the negative publicity of not thinking about the best experience for their customers? Some of these places will be hit very hard if they insist on enforcing such demeaning measures, and will deserve to fail as businesses. It won’t do the unemployment figures any favours though.

52392 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 4, #943 of 1595 🔗

My opinion is that some of them are playing survival of the fittest knowing once things open up properly there will be less competition. This will vary depending on sector of course.

52459 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #944 of 1595 🔗

Wow. That’s cynical but I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what the big boys are doing. The government is certainly facilitating it.

52455 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kbeanie, 1, #945 of 1595 🔗

And it’s well established that getting a product into a customer’s hand is halfway to an impulse buy.

52440 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #946 of 1595 🔗

Surely the reply is ‘nothing now’. Good day.

52450 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #947 of 1595 🔗

My friend tried to go shop browsing with her friend in Ilkley last week. Queues to get into shops, often not allowed to enter together because of number restrictions.
Hands gelled at every entrance.
Gave up and went home for a cuppa instead!

Ilkley used to be good for an afternoon’s mooching, browsing and cafe frequenting.

My own university town centre was quite depressing before lockdown. I keep wondering about going just for a recce but can’t quite summon the energy ….

52368 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to kbeanie, 5, #948 of 1595 🔗

Yes I’ve been told that, in an aquarium within a garden centre. Needless to say they have lost my custom to the local Pets at Home which does allow browsing.

52396 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to kbeanie, 3, #949 of 1595 🔗

Game didn’t allow browsing when they initially re-opened, but now do, provided that you slather on hand-stripping rubbish on before you touch anything. Really annoyed me as I recently bought a Nintendo Switch and I’m totally new to the console, I have no idea what games are available for it, so how am I meant to know exactly what I want before entering the store?! Game is ludicrously overpriced anyway and I get most games off eBay now, but this has just cemented me reluctantly moving my custom online because I like to support the high street but cannot under these circumstances.

52463 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Poppy, 1, #950 of 1595 🔗

How about you check out the reviews on Amazon? You can still buy from the high st.
I often do than myself – or did before lockdown.

52513 ▶▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #951 of 1595 🔗

Good idea, but given how hostile Game’s policy was, it really made me feel unwelcome and like they were undeserving of my custom..!

53002 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kbeanie, #952 of 1595 🔗

I’ve been boycotting shops and while being out and about yesterday a few tried to entice me in by asking “can I help you?” I would reply “no thanks” or “not for me” then move on.

Many of the shops I walked past central London have the usual hand sanitiser stands, Covid 19 signage, antisocial distancing dots and the like – it certainly looked depressing and wasn’t conducive to browsing let along buying.

52339 John P, replying to John P, 4, #953 of 1595 🔗

Some “hot” news from Tesco.

I’ve just been to my local Tesco Express. There was someone asking one of the shelf fillers how she was getting on with her new mask. Itchy and uncomfortable, apparently.

Puzzled, I asked her about this and she responded that Tesco’s policy is that staff will also be required to wear masks, as the management deems it unfair to insist that shoppers are masked if their staff aren’t also wearing masks.

She also said that they would be asking unmasked shoppers to leave when the law comes into effect.

52357 ▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 7, #954 of 1595 🔗

Interesting policy to turn customers away. Calculations will have been done. One to keep an eye on.

52366 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to John P, 3, #955 of 1595 🔗

Even people who are exempt?

52690 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to A. Contrarian, #956 of 1595 🔗

I didn’t ask her about that.

52432 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to John P, 9, #957 of 1595 🔗

Best of luck to them in doing that. It’s Christmas come early for anti-discrimination lawyers.

52350 Universal Love, #958 of 1595 🔗

I think we people should be more supportive of each other, including the owner and writer of this platform who really started feeling oppressed by masks only when he felt he was going to be affected by that, not that much when Scotland mandated them…my point is, if we really want to have a chance against the evil enemy of mankind, we should care more about each other and realize that other people’s problems could be ours very soon.
We all have to live inside the same farm.

52358 Starsphinx, replying to Starsphinx, 53, #959 of 1595 🔗

Can I just put in a shout for a group of people being horrendously impacted by this non scientific gesturing by the government.

Every single person who is hard of hearing or deaf, and a huge number of those with chronic chest conditions, autism, anxiety, and other issues have just had more barriers and social rejection thrown at them.

The position of people who cannot wear masks is now this. If they wish to go to a shop they will be subject to social judgement and condemnation by a myriad of strangers who observe them and do not even bother to think or speak to them. Then on top of being treated as lepers and pariahs, upon reaching the shop they will be stopped and questioned as to their private health. If they respond it is as simple as they have a condition and do not have to reveal it the chances are they will be questioned further. They will have to justify being allowed to continue with a simple freedom of shopping – and how many will overhear the deliberately loud whisper of another “well maybe if they cant wear a mask they should be isolating and getting someone else to do their shopping for them”

So much for disability rights equality and inclusiveness.

52365 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Starsphinx, 21, #960 of 1595 🔗

This is so wrong, it is discrimination which back in the day would have had the media jumping up and down saying how bad it is and how could this happen. Now nothing, wrong unfair and unjust.

52373 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Starsphinx, 9, #961 of 1595 🔗

It’s crystal clear that nobody has any rights where public health is concerned.

Oh the irony of it all.

52374 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Starsphinx, 15, #962 of 1595 🔗

Both myself and my son are disabled, and we have been thrown out as trash from the very start of all this lockdown bollocks.

There is a group trying to bring a legal case on the basis of disability discrimination: https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/face-masks/

52380 ▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to TyLean, 8, #963 of 1595 🔗

I’m so sorry to hear that TyLean. It’s crystal clear they don’t give a shit and have declared war on everyone.

52442 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to TyLean, 5, #964 of 1595 🔗

My wife was on the vulnerable list, one phone call pushing DNRs “just in case you go to hospital” and a polite refusal meant they never called again, no contact about food parcels, assistance etc so know what you mean.

52431 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Starsphinx, 3, #965 of 1595 🔗

Some charities, e.g. British Lung Foundation, have downloadable exemption notices people can carry round with them. And a Sunflower hidden disabilities card might help, but they cost money (with lanyard, about £6 inc delivery). I think some of us are just going to have to assert ourselves.

52435 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Hoppity, 3, #966 of 1595 🔗

Of course, in an ideal world, GPs would be issuing exemption notices/cards to people! (Or have I missed something?)

52446 ▶▶ JASA, replying to Starsphinx, 13, #967 of 1595 🔗

I totally agree, as I posted here on the same subject a few weeks ago. Also, some face to face medical appointments are being replaced with telephone calls, which is no use to those with severe hearing problems, yet they refuse to offer alternative ways e.g. e-mail. That is simply discrimination – providing a service to some but not others on the basis of disability. I have seen my GP every month for the last 8 years, yet in March that stopped and I haven’t had any appointment since or any direct contact. As above, I could have a telephone call, but I cannot hear. No hospital outpatient appointments since March either, so two missed appointments. Mental health treatments suspended and a referral put on hold. Telephone contact available, but no alternative if you cannot use telephones for whatever reason. I was getting on top of things bit by bit, but now I am really struggling again and in lots of discomfort. Like many, many others – completely abandoned and I mean completely.

52520 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to JASA, 6, #968 of 1595 🔗

I read the latest newsletter for our surgery at:
https://www.waterfieldpractice.co.uk/practice_news/patient-communication-july-2020/
I assume this is the same as most surgeries in the UK – telephone only triage appointments, face to face in emergency only, no blood tests, no travel vaccinations. In our case the front gate has been locked firmly since March and you can only speak to reception via an outside intercom. The GP practice has effectively abandoned us.

53187 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to davews, #969 of 1595 🔗

Disgraceful and they are all on full pay too.

53186 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to JASA, 1, #970 of 1595 🔗

I hope you clapped lots for ‘our’ NHS! That organisation exists for the benefit of its managers and employees not patients.

53006 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Starsphinx, #971 of 1595 🔗

Exactly. They have thrown people with disabilities under the bus.

I’ve come across stories where people with disabilites have been abused for not antisocial distancing and the like so much so that the RNIB has even done a film showing how difficult it is for people with vision problems to antisocial distance in order to plead for understanding.

Its said that the virus has brought out the best and worst of humanity. Unfortunately I think its more the latter.

52362 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #972 of 1595 🔗

Took my daughter to a large playground a short drive away today, expecting it to be open as our local ones are now all going strong. But it was still closed, with a bossy sign on the gate declaring it to be necessary to “keep our community safe”.

Councils should be forced to re-open them, surely?

52391 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #973 of 1595 🔗

Ignore sign. Sit on swing. Have fun.

52398 ▶▶ PaulK, replying to A. Contrarian, 11, #974 of 1595 🔗

I’ve read somewhere that they don’t have to open until the council assess the risk. One of my local ones opened them up but removed one of the swings in a bank of two and haven’t switched on the water fountains, which the children particularly enjoy. Five children under 18 have died “with the virus” of approximately 14 million under 18s in the UK. It’s sick.

52406 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to PaulK, 1, #975 of 1595 🔗

Removing swings is a new one to me!

52414 ▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #976 of 1595 🔗

I was furious but to be honest that seems to be my default setting! I presume the “logic” is the distance between the swings. The use of “” obviously means it’s highly dubious.

52436 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #977 of 1595 🔗

Didn’t you know that people always sneeze sideways when swinging!

52470 ▶▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to Cheezilla, #978 of 1595 🔗

I did not know that Cheezilla 😉

52385 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #979 of 1595 🔗

I have a recurring dream where I’m being dragged away in a straight jacket screaming “I’m no danger to anybody”.

It’s actually an irrational fear I’ve carried since childhood. Maybe dreams can come true after all.

52417 ▶▶ Snarly, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #980 of 1595 🔗
52425 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Snarly, #981 of 1595 🔗

Now that’s a blast from the past.

52528 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Snarly, 1, #982 of 1595 🔗

I’m looking forward to blasting this one out when the inevitable catches up wth Hancock (in particular):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m138-Fn5Tw

52532 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, #983 of 1595 🔗

This one reminds me of Hancock too, especially the last verse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_OPpfaFlUI

52419 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #984 of 1595 🔗

I know that you shouldn’t take the fun out of mental and physical health problems but after dealing with a few in myself (just ignore them) and some really serious ones in others over the years a sense of humour always helps so:

I always thought I was paranoid, turns out I’m not.

Paranoiacs only THINK someone is out to get them, I KNOW someone is out to get me.

Also I found out I’m anorexic. Really, at 5 ft 8 1/2 ” and 115 kg you wouldn’t think so but I am.

This is true – anorexia is not a physical problem but a mental problem (don’t ask how I know).

One tool that psychiatrists use to diagnose anorexia is if the patient looks in a mirror and every time and they see a fat person then this is a classic symptom of being anorexic. I look in the mirror, I always see a fat person so therefore I’m anorexic.

There is logic there of a sort (I think it’s the sort the Government are using at the moment) and as I said, a sense of humour sometimes helps in these situations.

52424 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #985 of 1595 🔗

The way we’re all being treated as if we’re a danger to everyone else is akin to my dream.

We must all be removed from society in order to protect us from ourselves and others.

52404 annie, 27, #986 of 1595 🔗

Just been completing a Cabinet Office survey from a govt website that shows you how to make a face nappy. (Link in somebody’s older comment above).
They ask visitors to the site to complete a short satisfaction survey, with free-comment boxes.
And BOY, did I free-comment.

52407 Kareninaccounts, replying to Kareninaccounts, #987 of 1595 🔗

I live in a little hamlet that is between Blackburn with Darwen and Pendle, both of which are now broadcast as the highest numbers of infections in the country. In the middle of our town is a distribution centre for BooHoo.

I am sniffy about this link with Leicester given the recent news on BooHoo and its links to Leicester. BooHoo is the towns largest employer and many of its workers live in BwD and Pendle. Leicester has a strong textile industry as does our area.

Residents in BwD were told last night that masks were to be worn from midnight in all public places and BwD has been warned that if the infection rates do not come down, it is a local lockdown.

52844 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Kareninaccounts, #988 of 1595 🔗

Very sad to hear – Kirklees, I think, is also running close.

52848 ▶▶ John P, replying to Kareninaccounts, #989 of 1595 🔗

The local lockdown in Leicester (thus far) basically means pubs and “non essential” shops are closed.

No ruling on masks.

52426 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #990 of 1595 🔗

Anyone read Dirk Gently’s Detective Agency by Douglas Adams?

In it there is a computer programme that you give the desired result to and it then formulates how to behave/react etc to get the answer you want.

The government’s responses from around the world at the moment remind me of this – they have programmed in what the want to achieve and now are going through the desired steps to achieve it.

52441 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #991 of 1595 🔗

Ah. Remember it well. Written in Fortran I think. (c) N. Ferguson.
ICL. 2001.

52447 ▶▶ Will, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #992 of 1595 🔗

That is what successful democratic governments always seek to do. Successful in that they manage to remain in power, not successful in that they do any good. The democratic west knows they backed the wrong horse, and Sweden backed the right one, so the politicians and scientists who got it so wrong will now do whatever it takes to make it look like beating this disease isn’t down to nature but down to their actions.

52434 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 7, #993 of 1595 🔗

Masks in shops: what about men (or persons!) with very full beards? Obviously, masks are pointless, but even within the logic of those in favour, clearly putting a mask over a big beard is self-evidently pointless as the pesky covids will escape all over the place. So, will there be a requirement that people are clean-shaven? Anyone of a legal nature fancy chasing up this one re human rights or denial of freedom of expression or infringement of rights under the Equalities Act?

52467 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Aremen, 1, #994 of 1595 🔗

I’ve just queued behind a chap with a full beard in the pharmacy wearing a mask,I could clearly see the gaps all round where it was just sitting on top of his beard.

52531 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Aremen, #995 of 1595 🔗

It’s fine for Covids to escape around the sides. They do that with masks anyway. They’re only supposed to stop droplets going forwards.

52445 Margaret, 19, #996 of 1595 🔗

Just been shopping at our local Asda with OH. Asked the chap on the desk if he will allow us in after next week without a face nappy on as we are both “exempt”. Didn’t tell him that it came under the “great distress” exemption. He said he hadn’t had any orders from above yet but he was sure it would be OK if we showed him a doctor’s note. I said that would be impossible as I can’t even get an appointment with my doctor. I told him we both had a card on a lanyard (which we bought the other day) so he said that if we went to him first, he would let us in. I said that if we weren’t allowed in we would shop elsewhere or online.
Next the lovely girl, who works on the scan and go, got chatting. She wears a hijab but says she is glad she won’t have to wear a mask. Her father has a medical condition so is exempt. She won’t challenge anyone not wearing a mask.
Into Matalan to pick up a bargain I ordered the other day. Got chatting to a young couple in the queue about cancelled holidays. They thought the mask thing was all a load of rubbish too and that it will kill the high street.
All checkout staff, muzzled and gloved. Sympathised with my checkout lady about how hot it was having to wear them and how useless the masks were. She got a bit terse then and said that it was to protect her as much as me. When I asked her why then we weren’t having to wear them until next week, she didn’t answer. I said that I wouldn’t be visiting again until the mask situation goes away. I do hope the husband, wife and two young children behind me, all wearing matching cloth muzzles, heard our little exchange. Talk about child abuse.
On a lighter note, OH tried the smoke trick today (not sure whether it appeared on youtube here or on another site). He put on a mask we have had to buy for next week’s flight, lifted his mask, took a puff of his vape, put back the mask, exhaled the steam and it came out in all directions. It’s a real good party trick to show the muzzle brigade how much safer wearing a mask makes them!

52449 paulito, replying to paulito, 30, #997 of 1595 🔗

Just read that the moronic regional government in Cantabria, Spain have made muzzles compulsory everywhere from today. Before, they were compulsory in shops and in public where anti social distancing couldn’t be maintained. There are 3 people in hospital at the minute and nobody has died in nearly 2 months. Anybody who believes this has anything to do with public health needs their head tested. I’m absolutely furious at this outrage.

52461 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to paulito, 7, #998 of 1595 🔗

I eagerly await the THIRD revision of the WHO’s advice on face coverings this year to adjust to the new political reality. If only the BBC Newsnight reporter who alleged earlier this week that the WHO changed their position in June under the pressure of political lobbying could introduce cast iron evidence for this claim into the public domain.

52559 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to paulito, 2, #999 of 1595 🔗

If they’ve done it, it can only be a matter of time until we do as well.

Part of me is curious about that experiment – as no doubt are the government (I’m becoming convinced it’s just a psychological experiment).

All the tweeters yesterday who were saying to we mask deniers “We’re only asking you to wear a piece of cloth on your face while in a shop for twenty minutes…” will presumably have to rationalise the possibility of never feeling the wind and sun on their face again. Ever.

52854 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to paulito, 1, #1000 of 1595 🔗

So that is what will happen here. We’ll be told that because not enough people have been wearing masks, it has to be compulsory everywhere. Watch this space.

52452 Martin Byrne, replying to Martin Byrne, 9, #1001 of 1595 🔗

So coverings in shops where time spent is minimal are essential, no coverings in pubs or cafes where time spent is lengthy, and social distancing next to impossible as people come and go and servers move from table to table, not to mention most of these venues have low ceilings and air con units politely circulating every bit of Covid-19 and other virus that each visitor has kindly expelled. Oh and of course it is perfectly safe not to cover in offices, even though one is there for hours and even in a medium sized block one will have contact with ‘stranger’ colleagues and there can’t be that many corridors that are wide enough for two people to pass and maintain two metres, or is it OK in offices to follow one metre plus nothing at all now.
Is this the definition of ‘irrational craziness mutating to become accepted as rational insightfulness’
Are we all crazy?

52482 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Martin Byrne, 4, #1002 of 1595 🔗

Many people seem gripped by craziness, yes.

I suspect we may well see masks being mandated in all indoor premises, and any setting with crowds e.g. sports events.

52497 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Martin Byrne, 7, #1003 of 1595 🔗

I am sure they will get round to the pubs, cafes, parks, streets, offices and homes eventually. One step at a time. Our compliance at each step guarantees us the next even more ludicrous measures will come.

Then once they start removing people and children from homes and forcing potentially dangerous medical treatment upon us the masks issue will seem minor – but it is our compliance here that leads to there.

52503 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Saved To Death, 4, #1004 of 1595 🔗

I saw a quote from someone in government that they were introducing masks in “chunks”.

52545 ▶▶ John Ballard, replying to Martin Byrne, 9, #1005 of 1595 🔗

No just the Government halfwits. I voted for the buffoon, never again. The time we need strength of leadership we end up with this lilly livered pillock

52454 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #1006 of 1595 🔗

Does anyone know if this ‘measure’ is time limited, or the criteria that would trigger its lifting? The idea that the CLOWN Boris Johnson is dictating permanent changes to our lives at his own discretion is almost unbearable.

Where is David Davis? Steve Baker? They should disown this. Cross the floor. Do something to signal that there is some opposition in parliament!

52460 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1007 of 1595 🔗

Gruber has said in the last hour or two that it may be with us until next summer.

52481 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1008 of 1595 🔗

I thought he said “for the forseeable future” – which I took to mean forever. I thought “next summer” was an interpretation from the journalist/editor.

52511 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Julian, #1009 of 1595 🔗

Could be. I just caught a glimpse of it on the BBC.

52492 ▶▶▶ Invunche, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1010 of 1595 🔗

It’s going to be with us until “the vaccine” is ready.

52530 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Invunche, 2, #1011 of 1595 🔗

But they’ve already told us that the vaccine will “not offer full protection” and will only “take the edge off the symptoms”. And they’re also telling us that immunity is short lived. Basically, we’re never getting out of this.

52549 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1012 of 1595 🔗

Unless we get ourselves out of it.

52561 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Barney McGrew, #1013 of 1595 🔗

You’ll have to top up your immunity by getting vaccinated every year. Unlimited profits for Big Pharma.

52499 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tenchy, 11, #1014 of 1595 🔗

A bit like a three week lockdown to flatten the curve.

52477 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #1015 of 1595 🔗

Desmond Swayne and Christopher Chope have spoken up quite strongly against.

52491 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1016 of 1595 🔗

When have they put forward an exit strategy for any policy. This is with us until there is a vaccine or until major civil disobedience occurs.

52498 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1017 of 1595 🔗

Too big a majority for dissent. Go off Government line and you’re out the door, not like under Teresa with her minority Government.

52458 Tenchy, #1018 of 1595 🔗

I see there’s a Twitter hashtag #BoycottTheHighStreet. It might be from several years ago, but surely this could be used to advantage? I’m not into Twitter, so I don’t really know how these things work. Any advice?

52462 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #1019 of 1595 🔗

Nooooooooooo!!!!!!

Steve Baker retweeted this:

Pros to wearing a mask:

– You can pretend to be a ninja
– Allows you to secretly eat sweets without sharing
– Stops you from being recognised in the supermarket & having to chat awkwardly in the salad aisle
– Safety, obviously

https://twitter.com/i/status/1283348939002044416

52472 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1020 of 1595 🔗

Obviously… (sigh…)

52473 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1021 of 1595 🔗

Not really surprised… 😒

52489 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #1022 of 1595 🔗

I wonder how shops will ID people. A good opportunity for kids to get out and buy some booze (I guess it’s a pro if you’re under age)

52552 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1023 of 1595 🔗

Oh ffs…….

52592 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1024 of 1595 🔗

Obviously not safety

  • attack the supermarket / people
  • shoplifting
  • get away with crime
52646 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1025 of 1595 🔗

Did he write this for a primary school class?

52881 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, #1026 of 1595 🔗

Oh jesus christ.

Anyone else think the sceptics may have been paid off with future jobs to keep their mouths shut about masks?
“Just shut it and take it for economy guys, take it for the economy”

52478 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #1027 of 1595 🔗

This is unbelievable. The person who I was sure would be on our side was David Davis MP. Think again.

In fact, he thinks that the previous scientific advice that masks were not effective was “…extraordinary. Now we know that the science shows they do have an effect”.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1282931756006612994

We are truly doomed.

52526 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1028 of 1595 🔗

He was talking about masks long ago as an alternative to lockdown. They certainly would have been much less harmful.

I think everyone is promoting masks now because they don’t want to do 2m or lockdowns (or admit the truth that in the UK at least there’s no point doing anything because it’s over).

52645 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to guy153, 4, #1029 of 1595 🔗

To be fair, if back in March they’d done all the masking but not interfered in any other aspect of our lives, things would probably be ten times better by now. Cases and deaths would have dropped because they were always going to, and we’d probably have got rid of the masks again long ago. Not that I’m pro-mask in any way, but I’m less anti-mask than anti-lockdown!

52664 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1030 of 1595 🔗

Agree. When they did the lockdown I was saying to everyone at the time why not just post three masks a week to everyone like they do in Taiwan and say you have to wear them in the shops and at work. For about a month to flatten the curve, instead of a lockdown. But at the time they didn’t have enough masks for the actual NHS. Several hundred blunders later they’ve now got millions of masks from somewhere and expect us to wear them out of politeness.

52877 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1031 of 1595 🔗

Oh for fuck’s sake David.

For fuck’s sake.

52885 ▶▶ John P, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1032 of 1595 🔗

Toady. Clearly scared of the whip.

That is the trouble with most MPs. The selection process weeds out those who are likely to cause trouble – those who might think too independently. It doesn’t always work of course, but on the whole it seems effective.

52535 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stefarm, #1034 of 1595 🔗

A bit like skimming (fraud) or embezzlement then. Nobody will notice a few million redirected here and there in amongst the billions being spent.

52547 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, #1035 of 1595 🔗

Of course not, someone is going to profit from it and it isn’t us. Bent us a dog’s hind leg the lot of them!

52493 Invunche, replying to Invunche, 36, #1036 of 1595 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/07/15/guardian-cut-180-jobs/#comment

180 jobs to go at The Guardian!!!

Huzzahh!

That’s warmed my cockles on this bleak day 🙂

52501 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Invunche, 7, #1037 of 1595 🔗

Hopefully that’s columnists.

52529 ▶▶▶ Mario, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1038 of 1595 🔗

70 of the 180 are editorial staff.

They’ll probably keep the Woko Haram operatives, though…

Still, really good news!!

52502 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Invunche, 14, #1039 of 1595 🔗

They probably all think it was worth it, just to save one life.

52512 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #1040 of 1595 🔗
52516 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1041 of 1595 🔗

Close to 10%. The BBC is being decimated 🙂

52544 ▶▶▶▶ John Ballard, replying to Sarigan, #1042 of 1595 🔗

I bet Lineker will keep his Million plus for a short boring bit in match of the day, biggest waste of tax payers money – ever

52566 ▶▶▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1043 of 1595 🔗

That is the best news I have heard all day.

52640 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1044 of 1595 🔗

Perhaps they’ll think twice if something like this happens again.

52767 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sarigan, #1045 of 1595 🔗

Of which 450 will be rehired in another year or two….

52524 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1046 of 1595 🔗

Comment of the day!

52632 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1047 of 1595 🔗

Ha bloody ha, anybody else’s job yes, theirs, no!

52656 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, #1048 of 1595 🔗

Exactly. Easy to advocate locking the entire economy down when your salary is secure.

52521 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Invunche, #1049 of 1595 🔗

Probably anyone who has expressed any sort of scepticism.

52541 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Invunche, 2, #1050 of 1595 🔗

Is that the paper that has whole sections funded by the bill and melinda gates foundation and the rockefeller foundation? The very same paper whos biggest corporate purchaser is the BBC? It is you know!

52546 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1051 of 1595 🔗

Hope each one of those fine, puffed up on themselves, journalists uses their chop wisely and has a good old relect on what they were part of during their days of employed at the guardian.

52627 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Basics, #1052 of 1595 🔗

And maybe go away and retrain to do something useful like brick layer, electrician, plumber, gardener etc. They’ll be much happier and probably a nicer person.

52679 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Invunche, 1, #1053 of 1595 🔗

Great news. Hope the lying rag goes out of business.

52510 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #1054 of 1595 🔗

Dutch army go door to door covid forcing sampling at random. The lock down isn’t going to end as language being brought in now will last decades, such as Covid-Positive like HIV-Positive. Assessments and report from UK column today.
https://youtu.be/3p1bB5Fl8g0

New UK Column article:
Lockdown Deaths, Not Covid Deaths

Iain Davis writes:
COVID-19 has been circulating for at least a year and yet there was no notable increase in unseasonable mortality anywhere until Lockdown regimes were imposed between late February and late March 2020. Let me repeat that: everywhere, the overall or “all cause” mortality data consistently tells the same story: there was no notable deviation from the statistical norm in any country until lockdown regimes were imposed. READ ON
https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/lockdown-deaths-not-covid-deaths

52579 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 1, #1055 of 1595 🔗

Watched that.

At one point it looked like a group of undercover police went to get into a police van then something happened and they all got out agaoin and went off.

Looked like they were plants to stir up trouble and were getting ready to leave.

52605 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #1056 of 1595 🔗

Undercovers called Romeos, doing exactly as you say. Policing of public health is a coming frontline.

Thank you victoria. Just incredible information, to pass onwards too.

52585 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 5, #1057 of 1595 🔗

And so they continue with their worthless tests (flawed & meaningless) to ramp up infection numbers.

A) The PCR Test for COVID is NOT Accurate :
“Detection of viral RNA may not indicate the presence of infectious virus or that 2019-nCoV is the causative agent for clinical symptoms …this test cannot rule out diseases caused by other bacterial or viral pathogens.” – admission about PCR test by US CDC & FDA
The virus which shut the world down has still to this day never been isolated, purified and re-injected, or in other words, has never been 100% proven to exist, nor 100% proven to be the cause of the disease. When used to determine the cause of a disease, the PCR test has many flaws:
1. There is no gold standard to which to compare its results (COVID fails Koch’s postulates);
2. It detects and amplifies genetic code (RNA sequences) but offers no proof these RNA sequences are of viral origin;
3. It generates many false positive results ;
4. The PCR test can give a completely opposite result (positive or negative) depending upon the number of cycles or amplifications that are used, which is ultimately arbitrarily chosen. For some diseases, if you lower the number of cycles to 35, it can make everyone appear negative, while if you increase them to above 35, it can make everyone appear positive;
5 . Many patients switch back and forth from positive to negative when taking the PCR test on subsequent days; and
6. Even a positive result does not guarantee the discovered ‘virus’ is the cause of the disease!

B) The Antibody Test for COVID is NOT Accurate :
“There are numerous reasons why the antibody tests don’t really work and can be interpreted any way you want:
1. Old blood samples contain COVID antibodies, so if a test find antibodies, they may have been there for years or decades. There is no way to tell if they were recently acquired;
2. Like the COVID PCR test, they generate many false positive results;
3. They test for antibodies which may not even be specific for COVID;
4. Antibodies don’t actually prove immunity, since there are people who fight off disease with little or no antibodies, and conversely, there are those with high antibody titers or counts, but who still get sick; and
5. The results can be interpreted any way you want. The presence of antibodies could mean you’re safe and immune to future COVID waves, or conversely, it could mean you’re dangerous (sick and infected right now). It’s all about the interpretation.

https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/busted-11-covid-assumptions-based-fear-not-fact

52760 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Basics, 1, #1058 of 1595 🔗

Hmmm. I’ve just read the but about positive PCR tests on samples from last year.
I recall some testing done on blood donor samples from around 2017-18 which also came out positive, but likely to have been from other coronaviruses, such as the common cold. The PCR test amplifies viral fragments, and might not be the current CV19 virus.

52515 Paul, replying to Paul, 33, #1059 of 1595 🔗

Just been into my town centre for the first time in three weeks and what a difference.The last time I went it seemed the madness was subsiding and people were becoming a lot more relaxed but now it seems full virus hysteria is rapidly returning.Many more with muzzles than ever before,mainly elderly and those under 25 with a good sprinkling of middle aged men but strangely not many middle aged women .Sanitiser being used all around like it’s going out of fashion but if it’s so necessary how come the pharmacy doesn’t have any out for customers ?.
The town library is the best one though,there is a large container for returned books to be dropped in which is twenty feet outside away from the entrance,there is a socialist distancing queue to reach a desk placed across the entrance with more sanitiser and kitchen roll than I’ve ever seen in one place before,behind the desk is a depressed looking member of staff wearing a visor and gloves,it seems you can’t actually go in to get a book,the staff have to fetch it,sanitise it and then pass it to you.
I also noted that now you have to be ‘greeted’ before going into Poundland,the woman doing the ‘greeting’ looked thoroughly pissed off.
I feels like we are actually living in the crappiest sci-fi / apocalyptic movie ever made.

52539 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Paul, #1060 of 1595 🔗

What I cannot comprehend is why I can peruse books for sale in Asda or Sainsbury’s with a view to purchase them, picking them up and putting them back on the shelves, yet there are strict limits on handling the same books in Waterstones and the local public lending libraries. This is what is crazy logic in all this ludicrous guidance, rules, etc. No-one in government has a clue!

52543 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Paul, 9, #1061 of 1595 🔗

I had to drive to Sussex today, about 3.5hrs round trip and saw so many single drivers with masks on. I screamed with anger although no-one heard – an all too familiar feeling right now.

52748 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1062 of 1595 🔗

And I wonder if any of the drivers pass out due to lack of oxygen and cause a major accident….

53154 ▶▶▶ Pale Rider, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1063 of 1595 🔗

A few weeks ago I was in the local PO in a queue and a woman also in the queue was called forward to the counter. At no point of being in the PO did she have a mask on.

As she left the counter we all shuffled forward like the zombie dead and I watched as she left the PO, crossed the road and got into a big black 4×4. Once seated she started the vehicle up. She then proceeded to put a mask on, she was the only occupant, before driving off.

I looked at the parking spot she had vacated for a while trying to wrap my tiny mind around what I’d just witnessed.

I came to the conclusion that it would really be a kindness to shoot her.

52556 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Paul, 9, #1064 of 1595 🔗

I made a trip into my city centre for the 1st time since this madness began. Thought I’d try and do a lot of shopping before I’m forced to mask up. Very depressing. Stupid arrows painted on the pavements (FFS your chances of catching Covid passing someone in the street are virtually zero), signs warning everyone to keep 2m apart (I thought that had been reduced?) and hand sanitizer at the entrance to every single shop. I saw some teenagers meeting up and giving each other the now traditional fistbump even though their chances of dying from Covid are less than that of being hit by lightning. It doesn’t look like any of this is going away soon, if ever.

52586 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Chicot, 12, #1065 of 1595 🔗

(FFS your chances of catching Covid passing someone in the street are virtually zero),

They are virtually zero anywhere outside of care homes and hospitals According to official figures, 1 in 3,900 are current symptomatically infected. In my town, which has a population of around 27,000, that means there are about 7 people with the virus. So I would have to find one of those 7 first, and almost certainly would need to be in prolonged contact with them to catch it.

52590 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 23, #1066 of 1595 🔗

Sorry to read this Paul, it sounds grim.

From my disease-ridden, possibly pox-infected little shop, I have noticed that the majority of people just want to go back to normal and be treated like human beings and not like medieval agents of the plague. The fact that we have been very busy bears this out.

Fewer masks on display today and cash payments on the up. Had a near bit of argy-bargy with a full-on lockdownista this morning, but by the time we’d finished our conversation I think she was having a bit of a re-think.

I’m actually avoiding every shop that treats me like vermin.

52624 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 7, #1067 of 1595 🔗

I’m actually avoiding every shop that treats me like vermin .”

Long run, that’s probably the most effective thing we can do. As long as there are alternatives available.

52636 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Mark, 4, #1068 of 1595 🔗

Luckily, I can use the stuff I get from my shop suppliers. Though, if need be, I am stealing myself to go into supermarkets mask-free (I will be channelling my inner Erin Brocovich!).

52631 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 4, #1069 of 1595 🔗

You are my HEROINE. When this bollox is over you should get a damehood.

52642 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, 4, #1070 of 1595 🔗

You’re too kind Annie. I’m just trying to do what is right. And what the government is telling us to do, just isn’t right.

52525 ambwozere, replying to ambwozere, 1, #1071 of 1595 🔗

The mask madness is now getting to schools, well at least this one secondary school.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Francis_Hoar/status/1283417100405690368

52534 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to ambwozere, 6, #1072 of 1595 🔗

We should just stop paying them. If they can’t realise that if children are not back in school, whatever threadbare recovery we can achieve will be rendered meaningless. With tax receipts plummeting, why the hell should they be paid?

They can join the redundancy avalanche the private sector has had forced upon them.

52584 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #1073 of 1595 🔗

It’s typical academics, I should know I work in further education. They don’t live in the real world, never have.

52662 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #1074 of 1595 🔗

Agree. Anybody refusing to do their job should be turfed out on their arses.

52745 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to ambwozere, #1075 of 1595 🔗

Can’t see the linked tweet – it’s protected, so can’t see what they’re upset about.

52527 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, 17, #1076 of 1595 🔗

This point may have been made already here – I think we should all write to the heads of the big retailers and tell them we are boycotting them. We should suggest that their businesses may be under threat from the government’s response to the virus, and they should start to lobby against the government’s measures. I’ve just written to Graham Bell (CEO at B&Q) to this effect.

52533 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Back To Normal, 2, #1077 of 1595 🔗

Yes, by all means threaten a boycott, but how about a different take on it as well? One of the many perverse aspects of mandatory muzzling in shops is that the staff are exempt. However, many shops proclaim #weareallinthistogether. If so, their staff should be muzzled like the rest of us. Write to the CEOs asking about this: “presumably if we’re all in this together then you’ll be insisting that your staff play their part and muzzle up accordingly.” This might provoke a backlash from the staff, which may be forwarded to the nutjobs in government.

52548 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Back To Normal, 4, #1078 of 1595 🔗

To get more organised on this, I have got the Admin at https://lockdownsceptics.com to create a section for Complaint Letter Templates, so that we can create posts as Template Letters. This should make it easier to file complaints rather than having to generate complaint letters from scratch. The link to the section is:

https://lockdownsceptics.com/viewforum.php?f=29

52570 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #1079 of 1595 🔗

Well done

52581 ▶▶ Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, #1080 of 1595 🔗

And another just sent to Sebastian James (MD at Boots UK) – email sebastian.james@wba.com

For info, Graham Bell’s email is Graham.Bell@b-and-q.co.uk

52536 Somepeoplearesostupid, #1081 of 1595 🔗

I posted this yesterday but never seemed to get past the awaiting approval? Trying again. In the DM yesterday, it stated Boris would be making a speech later this week. The government confirmed the speech would be about the next 9 months of these measures and plans, or words similar to that.

Is this really going to be here Easter next year?

52537 James Leary #KBF, 26, #1082 of 1595 🔗

I doubt if the know-nothings in this government realise it, but having spent a lot of time in the Soviet Union in the 70s & 80s, it is apparent ALREADY that people in this country have been modifying their lives to live under an oppressive government. Ways to get around senseless rules, near silent disobedience, the black market becoming a way of existence, and so on. The Soviet Union wound up having two parallel systems of living working at the same time. Politicians became so estranged from the people that they had little effect on day-to-day life. Who you knew that could get things done and obtain stuff for you became more important in people’s lives. When the SU fell, it was these people who became the oligarchs. In other words – the mafia took over the country when the politicians could no longer run it. That’s where all this leads.

52538 NonCompliant, #1083 of 1595 🔗

Just a thought but couldn’t we start a Guerilla Asthmatic Campaign ?

Asthmatic Lives Matter after all. Just pick up an inhaler online and you’re free to go as you please! When some brave bed wetter confronts you whip out the inhaler and guilt the fucker to death !!!!!

52540 MDH, replying to MDH, 24, #1084 of 1595 🔗

Please, folks, do not buy or download lanyards or exemption certificates. The law is clear – you do not have to wear a face covering if to do so causes you severe anxiety or distress. That is the case of everyone on here – the fact you are posting proves it.

If you “produce your papers” you are legitimising a law which is unenforceable. Do not play along with this madness.

52568 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MDH, 4, #1085 of 1595 🔗

See my comment above. You have an automatic right of exemption.

52578 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to MDH, 13, #1086 of 1595 🔗

The problem is that a lot of people, including myself, don’t want a confrontation. Cowardly maybe but I don’t really want to have an argument in the street or in a shop with either a shop worker or more likely another shopper.

52596 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to The Spingler, 14, #1087 of 1595 🔗

I do sympathise.

I was in a bakery today buying my lunch and had some near- hysterical woman standing behind me shouting her order from six feet away. As I turned to leave she jumped Out of the way like a scalded cat. I snapped, more in exasperation than anger, “For God’s sake madam, there’s nothing wrong with me.”

I think we are giving too much power to the timorous. It’s time to assert logic and proportion. Ultimately, this is the only way society can survive.

52604 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1088 of 1595 🔗

Print a copy of the exemptions section and hand only hand it to the jumpers, the tut-tutters etc without saying a word.

52611 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to The Spingler, 6, #1089 of 1595 🔗

It seems most supermarkets wont make their staff enforce this. If a shop does perhaps it can be avoided. If you are in a shop where the staff wont enforce it its likely they will not look kindly upon a shopper harassing their customers either.

Our situation is desperate and things only get much worse from here if we continue to comply. If you haven’t watched today’s UK column episode its certainly worthwhile to see where we are heading. Today you risk confrontation with a hysterical shopper, tomorrow you will be forced from your home, lined up and tested and carted off if positive.

52703 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to The Spingler, 2, #1090 of 1595 🔗

Ditto, you never know when you’ll come across an absolute lunatic who will stand their screaming at you or worse. At the same time, I can only imagine some do-gooder getting themselves thumped by someone rendered furious and unhinged on ‘our side’ too… this could get messy, I’m just hoping to be able to go about ‘silent protesting’ by simply not wearing one. People can tut all they want, but I do hope no one comes up and starts getting agressive.

52801 ▶▶▶ Mario, replying to The Spingler, #1091 of 1595 🔗

I think that is fine, simply because neither the shopper nor the shop worker are at fault. Arguing with them is pointless and in general a net negative for everyone involved.

52601 ▶▶ Basics, replying to MDH, 5, #1092 of 1595 🔗

Agree. Stand proud of who you are.

52665 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to MDH, 4, #1093 of 1595 🔗

I disagree. I will carry a lanyard and will display it if challenged. I will make it obvious that it is being misused by wearing complimentary lockdown sceptic t-shirts from Carl Vernon. I will make sure that people know where to get the cards (and the t-shirts).

The end goal is to get a significant proportion using the cards where necessary and defying everywhere else, making the insane rules totally ineffective.

Once the obedient sheeple see a significant proportion getting away with it they will all stop the nonsense. Then it’s back in the government’s hands to see if they date stricter enforcement.

52676 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #1094 of 1595 🔗

And just to be clear, I totally understand where you are coming from, just an alternative method for the same outcome.

52550 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1095 of 1595 🔗

So I went to the hairdressers today, the first week they’ve been open in Wales. I was concerned that they might try to foist a face mask on me but no, no mask offered, nothing said at all. Two other customers in there – neither in face masks, both under 30. Result.

The hairdresser was in a face visor. Apparently they are not allowed to wear face masks. She was complaining because she prefers a mask to the visor as the visor makes seeing difficult. Being able to see is definitely an important part of cutting hair.

I couldn’t understand the face mask thing. I pointed out that it was a bit weird they were banned from wearing masks, was she sure? Oh yes she said, our boss has said we are not allowed to wear them but have to wear the visors, it’s strange because other hairdressers in town are wearing face masks she went on to say. I pointed out that perhaps no one actually knows what the rules are because none of the rules make sense or are at all logical. She didn’t really know how to respond to that.

I left wondering about the boss’s attitude to face masks. Is she just interpreting the rules incorrectly, or is she a face mask sceptic and prefers her staff to show their faces to their clients, even if that has to be behind a visor?

52555 ▶▶ RickH, replying to The Spingler, 5, #1096 of 1595 🔗

The ridiculous thing is that it takes only a moment’s reflection to observe that a visor is totally useless for its putative purpose – particularly for a hairdresser standing above the client.

52577 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 1, #1097 of 1595 🔗

Yes indeed – droplets will go down. They don’t impede breathing, but my chap told me his gave him a headache as the band around your head presses it quite a bit.

52580 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Julian, 3, #1098 of 1595 🔗

I would imagine the visor would also strain your vision. She got me to look through a spare visor to show me how hard it was to see through them and she was right. Trying to focus through one of those for eight hours a day would definitely give me a headache.

52562 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to The Spingler, 1, #1099 of 1595 🔗

We have been chatting to our hairdresser, also in wales. It seems half of the nonsense rules come from the hairdressing federation or whatever union they are in, however I believe in England they are following the same union rules even though by law they are not obliged to. Sadly in Wales they do have to wear those visors, although it does seem silly when they lean over you to wash your hair, surely it all gets sprayed down in your face?!

52569 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Youth_Unheard, 4, #1100 of 1595 🔗

It’s all madness. When she needed to lean in to finish off tidying my fringe she asked if she could take off the visor (but please don’t tell my boss), I said absolutely, whatever works for you. She then put her mask on instead but only over her mouth not her nose….. She did a lovely job with my hair and I really felt sorry for her – she was scared of the future (second waves!) and confused about pretty much everything.

52613 ▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to The Spingler, 4, #1101 of 1595 🔗

no haircuts for me. it’s back to the 70s

52572 ▶▶ Liam, replying to The Spingler, 1, #1102 of 1595 🔗

I went for a haircut last week. Tried my usual barber to be confronted with garish posters telling me to wear a mask, download an app, give a semen sample and sacrifice my firstborn (I paraphrase a little).

Went elsewhere. Found a place run by a couple of old boys who just, you know, cut my hair and took the money.

52573 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to The Spingler, 4, #1103 of 1595 🔗

I’ve had a go at cutting my own hair and it actually looks all right. I’ve always hated going to the hairdressers at the best of times, never mind with all this sh*t. Where I live, it’s about £15 for a men’s haircut. If I can do it myself then that’s a result.

52575 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1104 of 1595 🔗

I’ve always hated it too but impossible to do my own. I do the OH’s with the dog clippers though 🙂

52670 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Barney McGrew, #1105 of 1595 🔗

If only it were real:

https://youtu.be/SOeiVHxt2H0

52806 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1106 of 1595 🔗

Cut my own twice. Mind you at my age I don’t have a lot of it. Beard attachment on the razor does a reasonable job and I even set up the camera on my laptop to give me a rear view, still tricky but friends say it looks fine. I see our gents is open – normally £6 on OAP day (Wednesday) but see from the sign that they have increased everything by £3. Will need another cut in a month or so so no rush.

52803 ▶▶ matt, replying to The Spingler, 4, #1107 of 1595 🔗

I also had a haircut today. Little barber run by some Turkish lads in their 20s – I went there for a few months before lockdown as well. I did have to book an appointment (they’d always been a walk in and wait on the sofa till a chair is free place before), which I did yesterday by poking my head round the door. When I walked through the door, they were all sitting around with no masks on. Box of masks to buy on the counter, but nobody suggested I needed one. The chap who was cutting my hair got within about 50cm of me and put his mask on (over the mouth, not the nose) We had a brief conversation about it “it’s annoying, but we have to do it, it’s the law,” “actually, I’ve looked into it, if you do your own health and safety assessment, nobody can enforce it”. The customer who came in next said to his barber “you don’t need to wear that for me” – “yeah, annoyingly I do – it’s the law”.

Refreshing all in all.

Topped the day off later with a trip to the sane pub I’ve found near me. Relaxed shenanigans as you walk in (apparently my temperature was 34.4, so presumably I’m recently deceased and my corpse is still cooling) after that, really pleasant. They were also the pub I went to for the couple of days between my usual closing after “avoid going to the pub” and the “pubs must close” message. My usual is still close “until further notice”.

A good day. With pangs of nostalgia.

52554 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 55, #1108 of 1595 🔗

Just sent to my local Conservative Association

“ GOODBYE

I’m hardly the only one. A year ago this week I was at the Excel London hustings hoping to get Boris elected to replace the god-awful May. We succeeded in that, but for what?

I cannot and will not support an oppressive government. I remain a Conservative – they are not.

A bunch of scientific illiterates, turning nastily on their own people because they have been found out. Historic freedoms confiscated and kept to protect a few fragile egos, and many incompetent arses.

You’re on your own. I want nothing more to do with you.

This is sent to my local office because CCO cares nothing for the proles.”

52576 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #1109 of 1595 🔗

I wish I was a member, then I could do the same.

52675 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #1110 of 1595 🔗

I’m thinking of joining and writing a covering letter, something along the lines of:

“Due to being born 50 years too late, I missed out on those authoritarian regimes of the early 20th century. I think I would have been in my element, forcing people into correction camps in the Soviet Union, being a member of the Stasi or applying “The Science” for the purpose of eugenics in the Third Reich. I coud have been rewriting and suppressing history for our progressive society or disenfranchising people who do not think correctly.
With the new regulations persuading untrained people to protect themselves by wearing incorrectly fitting non-medical face masks that most certainly will perpetuate fear and maybe even kill a few people with undiagnosed medical conditions, I realised my opportunity was here and now. My previous idol, Joseph Goebbels, has nothing on the Matt Hancock and the BBC.
And I thought all those lefties were just being paranoid saying Boris was literally Hitler. Do I get my jackboots through the post or from Amazon?”

Laying it on a bit thick?

52716 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1111 of 1595 🔗

Excellent. I dare you…!

53043 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Lms23, #1112 of 1595 🔗

I’ll give it a go and see if I get a reply. Where do you think is best, local conservative party or HQ?

52588 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to James Leary #KBF, 7, #1113 of 1595 🔗

Hi James, could I ask that if you sent a letter, could you remove all personal detail from it and make it into a template so others can use, then post it on https://lockdownsceptics.com ? I have just created a “MP Complaint Letter” on there for people to use from the letter I sent to my MP. The section of the forum to post in is below:

https://lockdownsceptics.com/viewforum.php?f=29

52597 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #1114 of 1595 🔗

I was at the same hustings for the same reason James. Same feelings now.

52623 ▶▶ annie, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #1115 of 1595 🔗

Well done.

52651 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #1116 of 1595 🔗

Well done James. I don’t have a membership card to send back, but I did write to the Conservative Party in very strong language and say I would never vote for them again whilst this oppressive and law breaking government were in charge.

52698 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to James Leary #KBF, #1117 of 1595 🔗

Does the Brexit Party have a published policy on the lockdown? Or UKIP? Or The English Democrats?

52564 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1118 of 1595 🔗

After the Education Secretary link I put earlier, here is the Texas Lt Governer telling it straight to Fauci:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-lt-gov-dan-patrick-slams-dr-fauci-i-dont-need-his-advice-anymore

52637 ▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Awkward Git, -10, #1119 of 1595 🔗

Dan Patrick, a “vote for me” politician. You can always trust a politician over a clinician. Apparently ICU in Texas are filling spontaneously. This article is form 2 July. Check out Texas now. I lived there for years and have family there. It’s not doing well. I agree not to lockdown again. Fauci probably doesn’t need slagging off either.

52644 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BoneyKnee, 8, #1120 of 1595 🔗

Fauci, like Vallance, Whitty, Birx, SAGE, alternative SAGE, BBC, ICL, UCL, GAVI and all the rest of the bought and paid “experts” for by Gates around the world advising governments do need slagged off.

52711 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to BoneyKnee, #1121 of 1595 🔗

Are the ICUs filling up just with CV19 patients or with non-CV19 patients?

52809 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Lms23, 2, #1122 of 1595 🔗

Here is one problem. In a lot of places, cv19 is essentially being treated like TB. Meaning, if you have it, you go to a special unit just because of the positive test, regardless of whether you require isolation or not. I suspect this is true with ICU in some places. So, we cancel procedures for 2 months and create a huge backlog, then we start testing everyone, regardless of symptoms, then we insist on treating them all like plague victims… If this is a problem, it is largely one that we are creating. It is not necessarily indicative of what cv19 is actually doing.

52856 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RyanM, 1, #1123 of 1595 🔗

Exactly. They’ve turned the common cold into ebola, and every other illness into something inconsequential.

Then of course people die from these untreated ‘inconsequential’ illnesses…..

52906 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BoneyKnee, #1124 of 1595 🔗

Is this Dr “Model-Model-Model” Fauci? Models aren’t science, son. You really need to up your games down in Berkshire. You lot are a pale imitation compared to those from the Cold War. We have modellers in the UK, too. Also wrong.
Edit: And he’s more an immunologist than a physician.

53278 ▶▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Nick Rose, #1125 of 1595 🔗

Fauci is not infallible. He does know a thing or to about the spread of disease and how to prevent it – it’s his life. Physicians do listen to him so they can understand the specific issues he covers. But hey, listen to a Texan politician instead. A great source of science US Southern politicians – let’s not teach evolution. It’s just a theory you know.

52565 RickH, 15, #1126 of 1595 🔗

Went for a routine CT scan today. I don’t protest at wearing a mask in this situation, since it’s not the time or place to make staff feel uncomfortable when they have to wear them in the one situation that *might* justify it.

However – this confirmed previous experience that they do indeed cause serious discomfort – and that’s before we get to the issues of actual harm from reduced oxygen flow and enhanced inhalation of stale air and CO2.

Clearly : under the exemptions, *everyone* has a reason for not wearing a face nappy. Use it.

52582 ▶▶ Julian, replying to smileymiley, 8, #1128 of 1595 🔗

That was back in May. It’s about 3 in 10,000 now. Interestingly that report said they calculated the R0 as 0.57 based on the data – quite a lot lower than the rates quoted which were usually hovering “dangerously” around 1.

52653 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Julian, 1, #1129 of 1595 🔗

R is about 1 in the UK and will be forever. It might be 0.57 one day in one place, 1.5 another day in another, but it will average out to population growth times 1.

53113 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to guy153, #1130 of 1595 🔗

I never understood this, but am told that R, though below 1, rises to about 1 inevitably as cases fall to near zero. If someone can explain (in 2 lines with no graphs) I’d be grateful.

53308 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BTLnewbie, #1131 of 1595 🔗

I’ve never heard this theory and don’t see why it should be true. Once you get down to the very last person with Covid he either infects 1 other person or 0 other people (he can’t infect 0.3 people) so then R will either be 0 or 1. But this is only true when you get down to that very last person.

The idea that anyone is going to eradicate Covid is a pipe-dream. The real end-game is that it is endemic, which means a few thousand people (in a country the size of the UK) will have it at any one time forever. On average as new people are born and grow up they provide new hosts for the virus. If the population was completely static then it might die out completely, but it isn’t. The number infected will average out to a constant percentage of the total population. So if population growth is constant, R stays at 1 forever. If the population grows, R goes up a bit, if it shrinks R goes down a bit.

53715 ▶▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to BTLnewbie, #1132 of 1595 🔗

The R number is only really of any use when the infection rate is either rising or falling. As soon a disease settles into the background like any other disease (endemic) its R number is, by definition ,1.Any higher and loads of people would get it (epidemic) and any lower and it would die out.

52858 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, #1133 of 1595 🔗

Even the govt have worked out that R is meaningless by now, I think. I expect they’ll bring it back in time for Christmas.

52879 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, #1134 of 1595 🔗

MerrrR0Y Christmas! Can’t wait.

52583 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #1136 of 1595 🔗

I guess the Swedish village has already been sold.

https://swedesinthestates.com/for-sale-an-entire-swedish-village-with-famous-spa-resort/

But I think we should consider buying a plot of land in Sweden and building ourselves a community. Probably best to do it before the UK leaves the EU…

52598 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 17, #1137 of 1595 🔗

We need a new country, for people who want to be alive.

52600 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, 8, #1138 of 1595 🔗

Hear, hear …

52693 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Julian, 6, #1139 of 1595 🔗

At this rate, we’re going to need a new planet…

52652 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #1140 of 1595 🔗

Can I have first dibs on the LS cafe? 😉

52727 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 3, #1141 of 1595 🔗

That’s a yes!

52779 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 2, #1142 of 1595 🔗

You’re already nominated!

52791 ▶▶ gina, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1143 of 1595 🔗

Count me in – I’m desperate to find somewhere sane – ish to live.

52589 Essie, #1144 of 1595 🔗

Greetings from the Powys Penal Colony – have been a lurker for a while and just wanted to post an enormous Thank You to Toby, for the website, and to all the posters who have made my life bearable over the last few months. I had hoped that by now we would be back to something approaching normality but this seems not to be the case and to make matters worse Wales seems to have it’s own set of laws, which includes any guidance. I feel like I have woken up in a parallel universe and can’t get back to the original one.

Diolch i chi i gyd yn fawr iawn/ Thank you all very much.

52593 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1145 of 1595 🔗

Is Health Secretary a real job? Just look at this shit:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53415030

52691 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1146 of 1595 🔗

“It comes as the UK recorded a further 85 deaths of people who tested positive for coronavirus, taking the total number of deaths to 45,053.”

Coincidental finding of corona virus at time of death, or death caused by CV19??

52777 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1147 of 1595 🔗

Sir Keir Starmer’s spokesman said the party was not calling for the compulsory wearing of face coverings in offices “at this stage”.

WTF??

52853 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1148 of 1595 🔗

He’s waiting to see what Boris decides, and then he’ll agree. I can’t see the point of him any more.

52874 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1149 of 1595 🔗

There are no plans to make face coverings mandatory for office workers in England, Matt Hancock has said.

They’ll be compulsory from 27th July. Just watch that space. And what a space. I used to think he had stuffing between his ears. Looks like I was wrong. That’ll teach me, giving people the benefit of the doubt…

52887 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1150 of 1595 🔗

We’ve been watching a game of stretch the overton window played supremely by Hancock and co. If it wasn’t for the distopian, fascistic nightmare it’s creating, I’d applaud them.

Give it about four months before Hancock comes out with: “there are no plans to incinerate those testing positive of covid-19.” This will be followed by a hand-wringing article in the Guardian about how it may just save one life (obviously without any irony). The government will then repurpose the Nightingale facilities in record time and announce how the measures will save the highstreet in time for Christmas.

53097 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1151 of 1595 🔗

Incinerate? Don’t let Hancock see that!!

52594 wendy, replying to wendy, 25, #1152 of 1595 🔗

I have just completed my first day of volunteer marshalling at a large city Covid test centre. I won’t say which in case of problems.

What I can report is that NHS staff wore their masks only when undertaking swab or antibody tests and over their mouths only, their nose was uncovered. They removed their masks to talk to each other and no distancing was undertaken when huddled inside a cabin.

They spoke about the compulsory masks in shops and did not wish to wear one and also felt it unnecessary. Some said they would avoid shops until masks were not compulsory.

The test centre was doing swab and antibody tests. There were about 10 swab tests all day and some of these might have been preoperative tests. There were around 30 antibody tests.

Considering it is the test centre the atmosphere was very relaxed, no one seemed worried about infection themselves. Sharing of cups, food, toilets, high vis coats was all evident.

I don’t know what you might make of this.

52599 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to wendy, 1, #1153 of 1595 🔗

Interesting! I do not know why people go to these test centres”

A) The PCR Test for COVID is NOT Accurate
B) The Antibody Test for COVID is NOT Accurate

https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/busted-11-covid-assumptions-based-fear-not-fact ?

52602 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Victoria, 10, #1154 of 1595 🔗

Well, yes, as the day wore on I felt very much the whole thing was a waste of money and time.

52766 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendy, 1, #1155 of 1595 🔗

Just another expensive psy-op.

52607 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1156 of 1595 🔗

Are there any symptoms not caused by covid?
From the DT:

A skin rash could be a symptom of coronavirus, researchers at King’s College London have said, advising people to self-isolate and get tested if they notice a new rash.
Using data from the Covid Symptom Study app from about 336,000 regular UK users, researchers found that for one in five people (21 per cent) who reported a rash and then tested positive for coronavirus, the rash was their only symptom.
The study authors wrote: “This study strongly supports the inclusion of skin rashes in the list of suspicious Covid-19 symptoms.”
The Imperial study has also found that headaches are named as the common symptom of Covid-19.
Meanwhile, results from the Global Covid-19 Symptom Mapper show that three-quarters of Britons reported fatigue as a coronavirus symptom, compared to just over half of respondents globally.

Actually, all these latest could be attributed to mask-wearing!

52618 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #1157 of 1595 🔗

FFS they probably just had a rash, they’re testing so many people they’ll be saying that having two legs is a symptom next! We’ll all be self-isolating until the end of time at this rate.

52620 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1158 of 1595 🔗

Having no brains certainly is.

52708 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to annie, 1, #1159 of 1595 🔗

Of which Boris is conclusive proof!

52622 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #1160 of 1595 🔗

And as for fatigue, I must have had covid for most of my life. What illness doesn’t cause fatigue?

52654 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to A. Contrarian, #1161 of 1595 🔗

Priapism??
Could be what’s affecting MHHM, the massive crusty 🛎 🔚

52681 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Chris John, #1162 of 1595 🔗

MHHM – should be explanatory but if not, it’s Matti HandonCock, Honorary Mangina

52713 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Chris John, #1163 of 1595 🔗

Well, he is certainly a big prick!

52768 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, #1164 of 1595 🔗

The strain of bullshititis that is swirling through the commons and whitehall is showing no signs of fatigue…

52648 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1165 of 1595 🔗

The old correlation doesnt equal causation saying seems to have been thrown out for Covid, with scientists and doctors abandoning any attempt to actually prove causation before claiming things are due to this.

Headaches: Yes, you usually do get a headache with colds, duh!
Aches: See above
Sore throat?: See above

I think someone on here posted yesterday that they had given up trying to find evidence for what they’re doing now as it’s now so clear this is all just rubbish.

52852 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark II, 2, #1166 of 1595 🔗

I think they’re clutching at straws, now their spook disease is fading away. With the different ways this virus affects different people, it’s beginning to sound like the most intelligent non-living thing on the planet.

If A = B then A caused B. Good old post hoc fallacy.

52683 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1167 of 1595 🔗

Or the rash could merely be a coincidental finding.
Doesn’t say where the rash is….

52765 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, #1168 of 1595 🔗

Oh I’m sure any old rash will do nicely.

52782 ▶▶ davews, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1169 of 1595 🔗

As it happens after I had a nasty cold and cough at Christmas I found myself suffering from spells of nettle rash on arms and legs for quite a long time afterwards. Doctor (who I last saw in March) wasn’t interested – he said he would prescribe a cream then forgot. Totally gone now, but I suspect it was a side effect of COVID that I expect I had.

52842 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, #1170 of 1595 🔗

Sounds like any time I have an allergic reaction to something –

1 Shea butter – rash
2 Tree spores – coughing, snotting etc.
3 Paracetamol – extreme drowsiness

I’ll end up on the covid figures! Whoopee!

52850 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, #1171 of 1595 🔗

Compare this to normal times, when your GP would demonstrate a complete lack of interest in your symptoms, tell you it’s just something post-viral, and show you the door…

52609 Melangell, replying to Melangell, 5, #1173 of 1595 🔗

Yesterday I asked if anyone knew of a movement against Covid lies in the US. So just found this one, and happy that there’s so much intelligent resistance in the States! See https://makeamericansfreeagain.com/
The website focuses on refusing vaccination but the movement is much more broad-based, as can be seen on Pamela Popper’s channel. Just watched her excellent broadcast “Fake Tests and Fake Surges and Hot spots” – https://youtu.be/COWcvpXT5kI

52839 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Melangell, #1174 of 1595 🔗

I have a massive lady crush on this woman. She’s a warrior.

52612 Edna, replying to Edna, 8, #1175 of 1595 🔗


I met with two friends for lunch to-day, at a pub. It was the first time since lockdown that I’d been to a pub.

One of my friends had tried to book somewhere that we’d been before and this was the reply she had:

“We will be open on that day so I will book you in for 12 noon. Will your party be part of the same bubble or a mixed group as this will affect where in the pub/ garden we can seat you. In line with government guidelines could you also please send us the full names and telephone numbers of you party.”

Apart from the fact I had no idea what it meant by bubbles, I told my friend that I wouldn’t go anywhere that required my details, so she said she would cancel the booking. When she did that, she mentioned why we wouldn’t be going there and she told me that “ I had a rather snooty response that it was a mandatory request from the government and any reputable pub or restaurant would be asking the same thin g!”

I then looked up the nearest Marston’s pub and my friend made a reservation; the confirmatory email was thus:

Your reservation is for:
3 people at 12:00 for 2 hours on 15th July 2020
We look forward to welcoming you. When you arrive, head to the main door, speak to a team member and let them know your booking details to be seated.

It sounded much friendlier than the first pub and I’m pleased to say that it was! The only difference was the menu was limited and they were just printed on paper so that they were disposable. Also there was a one way system but we didn’t realise so at the end one friend was already out of the pub before the barman said it was against the law to go out that way; as I was actually standing in the entrance when he said this, I didn’t go back in again and the third friend just came out anyway.

All in all, given all the stress I’ve had over the face mask ruling, it was lovely to have a semblance of normality.

52617 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Edna, 10, #1176 of 1595 🔗

“Against the law to go out that way” just absurd that this is the view some people are taking.

52619 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Edna, 12, #1177 of 1595 🔗

Edna, in case you don’t already know, and for future reference, there is no law about this. The Government’s own guidance document for pubs etc. says it is “non-statutory guidance”.
Again, it is NOT LAW.

52621 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #1178 of 1595 🔗

Also, Wetherspoons are handling this very well. Not pushing anything, other than a bit of distancing.

52686 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1179 of 1595 🔗

Yes, definitely, ‘spoons seems to be run by sane people.

52750 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #1180 of 1595 🔗

Reducing beer prices, too, even though the VAT cut doesn’t actually apply. Gets my vote.

52625 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1181 of 1595 🔗

Ah, thank you, I didn’t know that!

52649 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 18, #1182 of 1595 🔗

I’ve found it very sad that customers at my place stand in the doorway and ask what they should do (despite the fact there is a sign saying “Welcome back, please come in”). I just tell them to come in and sit where they want and that there are no rules … (naughty, bad kh!).

52672 ▶▶▶▶ Bob, replying to kh1485, 6, #1183 of 1595 🔗

Sounds like you run the best cafe in the country!

52674 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to kh1485, 1, #1184 of 1595 🔗

Well done! If we lived in your area, we’d definitely be visiting 🙂

52741 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 7, #1185 of 1595 🔗

So, just to recap, Rishi: you are now trying to coax people to go out (because you told them they would die) and spend in shops (that you shut down), but they are not sure what to do, so you are giving them a price cut, but making them uncomfortable with masks, because they still might die.
Yeeahhh…. I think I get it.

52660 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edna, 1, #1186 of 1595 🔗

Against the law?

52673 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1187 of 1595 🔗

That’s what he said – I presume he meant that we were supposed to have followed the one-way system and should have left the pub by the garden door, to prevent us possibly coming in to contact with people arriving. Luckily there was no-one trying to get in just then!

52720 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Edna, 3, #1188 of 1595 🔗

I bet you didn’t realise it was one way, because there was nobody coming the other for you to bump into; which just makes Mr. Jobsworth even more pathetic.
Glad you had a good time, that’s not illegal… yet. 🙂

52762 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, #1189 of 1595 🔗

Give it time Sam, give it time …

52840 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 1, #1190 of 1595 🔗

[makes that sigh that you do when you know they’re right, but you just can’t bring your self to say it]

52758 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edna, 2, #1191 of 1595 🔗

Very lucky, or you might all have died on the spot!

53105 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Edna, 1, #1192 of 1595 🔗

Hi Edna,
It’s amazing how far a little normality goes.
We’re on holiday in the Cumbria and had our first meal out since …. lockdown (last century) last night. We bypassed a couple of places with screens and/or masks that didn’t look friendly.
No signing in, no masks, happy punters, jovial staff, good food, we paid in cash; altogether a normal night out. Depressing that a normal night out warrants 5 stars on Tripadvisor, but so be it 🙂

52626 microdave, replying to microdave, 4, #1193 of 1595 🔗

What’s next then? Street corner marshalls accosting shoppers to inspect masks and how often they’ve been cleaned?

You may have spoken too soon:

“Towns get ‘coronavirus wardens’ to keep shoppers safe”
https://www.edp24.co.uk/business/north-norfolk-reopening-shops-coronavirus-1-6743657

52629 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to microdave, 6, #1194 of 1595 🔗

Just think what else they could be doing with this amount of money, time and resources. It’s infuriating.

52633 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to microdave, 7, #1195 of 1595 🔗

Are these wardens in North Norfolk? Alan Partridge would love that job…

52658 ▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Mr Dee, #1196 of 1595 🔗

Yup!

52684 ▶▶ Nel, replying to microdave, 1, #1197 of 1595 🔗

So we now have the Stasi in place. what next?

52780 ▶▶ gina, replying to microdave, 6, #1198 of 1595 🔗

Unbelievable! I’ve just emailed North Norfolk District Council to ask where their newly appointed social distancing wardens get the powers to make sure shoppers are’ following the rules.’ I thought social distancing was not legislated and could not be enforced – even by the police. Have I got that wrong? I’m concerned as I live in one of the nine towns listed.
Its exhausting trying to stay abreast of all the constant changes and current rules.

It feels a lot like being in an abusive relationship: being constantly on the hop trying to keep up with the latest demands, trying to defend ones boundaries, searching for reasons that make sense of the seemly arbitrary decisions… the not being heard and the powerlessness.

I am close to losing the plot – very distressed by the imminent mask enforcement.

52865 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to gina, 1, #1199 of 1595 🔗

Without sarcasm or snark what you describe is torture. No exclamation mark.

52917 ▶▶▶▶ gina, replying to Basics, 1, #1200 of 1595 🔗

Thank you for the confirmation.

52970 ▶▶▶ Catherine, replying to gina, #1201 of 1595 🔗

I too live in one of these towns and will do the same. Gina, who did you email?

52628 A. Contrarian, 18, #1202 of 1595 🔗

I emailed the hairdresser at the bottom of the road earlier, calling them out for their rude and bossy signage (Wait here! Use hand sanitiser!). Walking past later in the day, I’m pleased to see they’ve at least amended it to say Please wait here. A small victory, but satisfying all the same.

52638 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 8, #1203 of 1595 🔗

If I’ve read this correctly https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/07/COVID-19-total-announced-deaths-15-July-2020.xlsx no deaths yesterday . So why the face nappy requirement -will it raise the dead?

52641 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to arfurmo, 10, #1204 of 1595 🔗

That’s correct. NO deaths from/with Covid in any NHS hospital in England. I don’t think Scotland have had one for a week either. It’s a milestone but I’m guessing the MSM won’t cover it much.

52712 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #1205 of 1595 🔗

WHY IS THIS NOT BEING MENTIONED ON THE NEWS?!

52754 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kbeanie, 5, #1206 of 1595 🔗

For the same reason we’ve been told to wear masks and that 120,000 more people will die before Christmas.

52776 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to kbeanie, 3, #1207 of 1595 🔗

Because that would be good news and good news is off the agenda.

52757 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #1208 of 1595 🔗

0 in scotland for a week yes

Scot Gov latest figures.

5 new confirmed cases of COVID-19

0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive

329 were in hospital last night: 2 of whom were in intensive care; plus 4 more people in intensive care with suspected COVID-19

Taken from scot gov daily covid page

52643 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to arfurmo, 2, #1209 of 1595 🔗

Hey, I am sure deaths for July 15th will start to rise over the next few days as deaths today get reported after a lag – but still pretty low. Once again, and as always, the figures do not justify the reaction, nor panic. Pretty safe bet you’ll not see this on the BBC though.

52657 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to HaylingDave, 1, #1210 of 1595 🔗

I’m not sure about that.

There is another set of figures released every day which includes deaths from days or weeks ago. See underline here:

“This file contains information on the deaths of patients who have died in hospitals in England and have tested positive for COVID-19.”

This today is NIL.

“Deaths where a positive test result for COVID-19 was not received but COVID-19 is mentioned on their death certificate as also covered, but are reported separately.

This today is 85.

(Please correct if wrong).

52715 ▶▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to John P, #1211 of 1595 🔗

Source please as I’d love to be able to share this!

52725 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to kbeanie, 1, #1212 of 1595 🔗

The NIL was as arfurmo stated, and the 85 is the figure on worldometer.

But the situation is confusing.

52764 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 2, #1213 of 1595 🔗

I think we can all agree the number is 33.

52790 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 1, #1214 of 1595 🔗

The number is alway 33

52891 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1215 of 1595 🔗

Or 42!

52661 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to HaylingDave, 2, #1216 of 1595 🔗

The deaths announced each day actually occur over at least 7 days previously. It’s possible that there are deaths that have occurred today that will be announced in the coming days, but the absence of any announcement of this fact on news radio is telling, considering how they were telling us how many hundreds were dying every day back in March, April, May….

52669 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Lms23, #1217 of 1595 🔗

So what are the figures being quoted today?

arfurmo is saying NIL, but you are saying 22?

The 85 is the figure currently being reported today (presumably for the whole of the UK) on worldometer.

(I’m not interested in what was happening months ago).

52685 ▶▶▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to John P, 4, #1218 of 1595 🔗

The 85 is all deaths reported today, in all settings, of people who at any time have had a positive test result. Only 22 of the 85 were in hospital being treated for Covid. And by the government’s own admission
Deaths of people who have tested positively for COVID-19 could in some cases be due to a different cause .”

52702 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #1219 of 1595 🔗

No, I’m still not sure about this. When they say “reported” are they talking about death certificates?

Because as we know many of these are reported days or weeks after death.

I’m just trying to clarify this point. Are ALL of these figures out of date?

Is the 22 also a historical figure?

I think this confusion needs to be sorted out !

52706 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, 3, #1220 of 1595 🔗

One of those rather rare cases when ‘could’ means ‘certainly will be’!

52659 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1221 of 1595 🔗

CEBM website: “There were 65 (50%) Hospital Trusts* with no deaths reported in the last 7 days, 98 (75%) reported no deaths in the last 48 hours and in 75 (57%) no deaths occurred in the last 7 days.”

The page has a different layout now, which I don’t find so easy to interpret, but it looks like 22 deaths were announced today by NHS England, but none attributed to today. There were 9 on 13/7

Which brings us to the question: what are we wearing face muzzles to protect ourselves from??

52647 Will, replying to Will, 38, #1222 of 1595 🔗

My five year old daughter had her first pulse of chemotherapy last Thursday. She doesn’t have cancer but has an extremely rare autoimmune condition and that has sparked another rare and nasty disease . We will never know whether her half dozen missed physio appointments contributed to a late diagnosis, which will make it less likely it can be reversed. The thing that drives me bananas is that the children’s hospital has been stood empty for months and, even now NHS England are restricting her paediatrician’s face to face appointments; and this is in spite of him observing that covid simply doesn’t affect children.

We are now shielding because the drugs are going to destroy her immune system but the specialist isn’t worried about covid, he is worried about colds. Honestly, when I read some lazy, entitled teacher say schools aren’t safe for children I could fucking scream, it is the most disgraceful scaremongering and as a profession teachers should never, ever be forgiven for their lies.

52663 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Will, 21, #1223 of 1595 🔗

It’s things like this that really make the blood boil. People suffering, old AND young, thanks to the cock-up over this bloody virus. No appointments, late appointments, no surgery, no therapy, no scans, no checks, no nothing. And to foul up the future lives of the young like your daughter….is beyond unforgiveable.

52701 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Will, 11, #1224 of 1595 🔗

So sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope it goes well with her chemo despite the unnecessary delay they’ve put you through. Please keep us posted on her progress, and scream here as often as you like.

52704 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to Will, 8, #1225 of 1595 🔗

Having been through chemotherapy myself I wish you and your family nothing but the best.

I don’t know if you are religious at all but google the following image and read the story. It was of immense support to me.

‘picture of the storm on the sea of Galilee’

God bless.

52829 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Will, 4, #1226 of 1595 🔗

*SUE*

*THE*

*BASTARDS*

(Seriously if anyone has a shot at some HUGE crowd-funding, it’s you)

52655 microdave, replying to microdave, 9, #1227 of 1595 🔗

I saw this disgusting outfit mentioned earlier today:

https://www.masks4all.org.uk/

Apparently, one of the founders is connected with Davos, so no surprise.

What really bothered me was this:

The rise of #Masks4All led the Government of the Czech Republic to make it mandatory for citizens to wear masks in public can help reduce the spread of COVID-19.

I would have thought that the very LAST people to have fallen for this crap, were those from a country which spent 40 odd years incarcerated behind the Iron Curtain. Presumably, most of those folk are now getting on a bit, and the present generation have little regard for recent history?

Reading further made my blood boil – From the “Founders” page here are some snippets:

Dr Helen Davison Former public health doctor from Carlisle. A Green City Councillor in Carlisle and staunch climate and environmental activist

Dr Jonathan Fluxman, returning, retired GP. Interests in climate change, sustainability and community empowerment. Member of XR Doctors

“Doctors for Extinction Rebellion” for Christ’s sake???

Then we see that 3 more are involved with:

https://ifnotnowdigital.co.uk/

Take a look at the “Our Work” & “Who we’ve worked with” sections. I’m sorry, but with this level of evil going on in the background, I have no hope that things will improve anytime soon…

52956 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to microdave, 1, #1228 of 1595 🔗

The Czechs performed somewhat of a U-turn recently, and are now back to near normality, so my friend who lives there has informed me.

52666 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 10, #1229 of 1595 🔗

Calling the main supermarket contact centres to see what the muzzle situation will be from 24th July.

Response from Waitrose, after the partner I spoke to got clarification from headoffice; customers & partners will have to wear face coverings from the 24th, as it will be the law.

When I first called I was told that it was only mandator for customers to wear face coverings, NOT partners.

Well partner I will not we giving you my hard earned cash.

Lets see what the others say.

52671 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Dave #KBF, #1230 of 1595 🔗

Thanks. Look forward to your feedback.

52677 ▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to Dave #KBF, 14, #1231 of 1595 🔗

Won’t be shopping in supermarkets whilst this lasts. I have my nuclear-bunker supplies ready and I’ll be living off those plus visits to local shops. I no longer believe that little protests like mine, even if repeated by many others, will make any difference – the lunatics really are running the asylum now and they’re not about to take their foot off our necks. But, it will be my protest, for what it’s worth. Pass me my tin-foil hat!

52682 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Dave Tee, 3, #1232 of 1595 🔗

I fear even the local shops will demand muzzles. I have my own local ones and I’m doubtful about their potential for rebellion. I know of only one where I will be welcomed without a muzzle…apart from that it’ll be all online for me.

52697 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #1233 of 1595 🔗

Yes, local shops can always be avoided by using online, and that’s what I’ll be doing. Supermarkets are the problem. Obviously deliveries could help, but I don’t like that route for fresh food.

52705 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1234 of 1595 🔗

Tenchy, thedarkhorse… for me online would be a cop-out but we all have to make our own decisions on this, I respect that.

52753 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tenchy, #1235 of 1595 🔗

Could not agree more, when we have used home delivery the quality of fresh fruit & veg never seems to be as good as instore.

52722 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to thedarkhorse, #1236 of 1595 🔗

I wonder what the situation as filling stations will be?

Buy fuel, no mask required, pickup a pint of milk, you will need a mask?

52746 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, #1237 of 1595 🔗

Surely most filling stations are shops nowadays?

52678 ▶▶ John P, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1238 of 1595 🔗

I would expect them all to say the same. You might be a journalist for all they know.

They’re surely all going to say that customers must obey the law.

52751 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 1, #1239 of 1595 🔗

I think that the more we ask, the more they might come down with “clear” guidelines and we’ll be shooting ourselves in the foot.

52763 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1240 of 1595 🔗

I bet the signage is already printed.

52714 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1241 of 1595 🔗

Sainsburys have just told me they will want a medical exemption letter from a medical doctor if I cannot wear a mask in store.

Have they tried to get an appointment with GP recently?

52859 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1242 of 1595 🔗

IF the coming law has the same exemptions as the public transport one, you will be exempt if you meet one of theconditions (eg ‘severe distress’) and will not be rquired to provide proof.

52823 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dave #KBF, #1243 of 1595 🔗

Thanks for this. I’m hoping there will be some deviation from head office policy in local stores however. Like I can’t imagine my local ‘Sainsbury Local’ AKA The Corner Shop enforcing this with much rigour.

52825 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1244 of 1595 🔗

Are visors ‘masks’ in this context? Because a lot of the staff in the Waitrose here wear those.

52827 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Hoppity, #1245 of 1595 🔗

They are in Scotland.

52832 ▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to ShropshireLass, 2, #1246 of 1595 🔗

Might have to take the petrol strimmer with me next time I go in search of an almond croissant.

52928 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Hoppity, 3, #1247 of 1595 🔗

Visors are actually a lot better than cloth masks. They will stop all the droplets (unlike a mask) but don’t obstruct breathing or lip-reading and are re-usable.

It’s interesting that official government advice is not to use them because they don’t want the NHS to run out.

I tried making one out of a 2l plastic pop bottle. Just cut the top and bottom off, remove the label, and cut it lengthwise down one side. It can then be sort of clipped over your face with the tension in the plastic holding it there. It’s not that uncomfortable and looks absolutely ridiculous (which I see as a plus).

I then went shopping at Tesco wearing this contraption. It performed flawlessly. For the most part nobody batted an eyelid although I got one look from a conventionally masked shopper that seemed to say wtf have you got your head in a bottle before it slowly dawned on her that my PPE was superior to hers in every way.

I draw the line at paying for those awful surgical masks and then putting them into landfill so if people really take this seriously I plan to stick with my pop bottle lifehack.

52938 ▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to guy153, 1, #1248 of 1595 🔗

Would love to see that. (Might have to make one myself! Though I wear glasses… Maybe I could wear them on top of the windscreen?)

53052 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Hoppity, #1249 of 1595 🔗

Good idea, it might work to have the glasses over the top! I am only slightly short-sighted and only really need the glasses for driving so I just took them off.

53086 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to guy153, 1, #1250 of 1595 🔗

Rinse and reuse.

52862 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1251 of 1595 🔗

Staff WILL NOT have to wear masks, going off what we have been told so far. They say that will not be law. Providing that doesn’t change, Waitrose are talking crap.

52872 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1252 of 1595 🔗

Sam, I spoke to a recently masked shelf filler at a Tesco Express this afternoon.

She told me that Tesco were going to make it a policy for their staff to wear them as they considered it unfair to expect the public to wear them if they did not.

52909 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to John P, #1253 of 1595 🔗

We’re always up against that, not law but… fait accompli.

53034 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to John P, #1254 of 1595 🔗

They have a strange idea of fairness. It’s a minor inconvenience to wear the damn thing for half an hour while you do your shopping (a minor inconvenience but that people are rightly furious about). But having to wear one all day if you worked there would be intolerable.

52667 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1255 of 1595 🔗

Newsflash!

66% increase in bat flu cases in Scotland, day on day.

52726 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #1256 of 1595 🔗

How’s that, 1/3 of a case becomes 1 case?

53083 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Cheezilla, #1257 of 1595 🔗

Wouldn’t that be a 300% increase?

52688 CoronaMeh, #1258 of 1595 🔗

Having been asked to sanitise my hands before entering most shops today, I’ve now decided to boycott the high street (bar a few friendly independent shops who are not zealous at all). I’m done…

52689 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1259 of 1595 🔗

Sainsburys have just told me they will want a medical exemption letter from a medical doctor if I cannot wear a mask in store.

Have they tried to get an appointment with GP recently?

52707 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1260 of 1595 🔗

How ridiculous. Hope they go bust.

52731 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to stefarm, #1261 of 1595 🔗

I would expect them all to say the same.

52738 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to John P, 1, #1262 of 1595 🔗

Cue the plague doctor masks!

52735 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #1263 of 1595 🔗

Is this as an employee? It may be an insurance thing.

52739 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, #1264 of 1595 🔗

I’m assuming as a customer… apologies if I’ve got the wrong end of the French stick

52860 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 2, #1265 of 1595 🔗

I’m holding a croissant.. two sainsbury’s here have staff including security uninterested in diktat uniform compliance and have spoken with me about it. Why now and hate it sums up chat.

52724 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1266 of 1595 🔗

Apart from not being able to get an appointment with a doctor to appeal for an exemption letter, what about using the phrase on the government website ‘ to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury, to yourself or others’ ?
I have printed out the extract with this phrase highlighted, and 2 medical articles from Toby’s list of resources and highlighted the various harms described in those. I plan to try shopping armed with both from 24th and see what happens. Surely that cannot need a medical letter because it is a general exemption open to an individual risk assessment since it refers to ‘yourself’? Maybe others could give it a go too and we can pool results? Anybody know if we can do anything more, legally speaking?

52740 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1267 of 1595 🔗

Funnily enough I’ve just been searching the internet about this. It appears that some doctors are saying that they are not required to provide exemption letters for patients, according to government guidelines, but instead patients should “self-exempt” Shops and supermarkets need to be told about this.

52775 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Margaret, #1268 of 1595 🔗

Sorry computer illiterate so still don’t know how to add a link on a forum like this. If you look at Dr Jon Griffiths (from Winsford) twitter page, you will see what I mean.

52805 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1269 of 1595 🔗

To do with exemptions on public transport, but I can’t imagine it would be any different for shops:

“GP notes not required for face covering exemptions, says Government” http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/gp-notes-not-required-for-face-covering-exemptions-says-government/20041004.article

Unless the government says something along the same lines with reference to shops, though, I can quite imagine people being turned away.

52831 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1270 of 1595 🔗

I can confidently state that my GP would tell me to F right off if I asked them for something like that.

52914 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to A. Contrarian, #1271 of 1595 🔗

I’m surprised they are not just charging £25 like they do for sick notes now.

52869 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1272 of 1595 🔗

It’s not supposed to be in the upcoming law, as far as we know now. That’s just Sainsburys thinking they have to cover their arse. Imagine a govmt letting people think that….

52940 ▶▶ matt, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1273 of 1595 🔗

You cannot be required to share medical information with anyone but your doctor. Even your employer can only require a statement from your GP that you’re legitimately too unwell to work, not details.

53080 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dave #KBF, #1274 of 1595 🔗

Not sure that is legal. Your medical problems are between you and your medical professionals, not between you and retailers.

53095 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Dave #KBF, #1275 of 1595 🔗

It is my understanding that you can self certify. I have also been informed that surgeries, I believe, across the UK are not issuing letters of exemption, there would be too many to issue. I will self-certifying.

52694 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 15, #1276 of 1595 🔗

Stop press: Just heard from my mum in wales- FM, Mark Drakeford is due to issue his latest briefing tomorrow. Whilst so far restrictions in Wales have been more stringent, his public health officer was on the news today saying that he wasn’t convinced masks were the answer. Imagine if Wales don’t follow suit. Here’s hoping.

52717 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Telpin, 3, #1277 of 1595 🔗

That would be quite a coup – and would increase his ratings no end I should imagine.

52732 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Telpin, 2, #1278 of 1595 🔗

I’m on my hols to Prestatyn if the annoucement comes. That would be a heck of an economic boon for Wales. Has Drakeford got the pluck?

52742 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Telpin, 4, #1279 of 1595 🔗

While it seems encouraging for Wales, the actual fact of the matter is it is offset by all the much stricter laws restricting businesses and individuals alike, see http://laworfiction.com/2020/07/welcome-to-wales/
Working from home is still mandatory, and people are still unable to meet with more than one other household, which luckily is being ignored by a substantial amount, get I still have friends who insist on it, being honest I don’t know if I will still be friends with them when this is all over!

53200 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1280 of 1595 🔗

With friends like these.

53089 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Telpin, #1281 of 1595 🔗

I’m hoping…living in south Wales, I really am…still no to going to wear a muzzle though.

52695 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 25, #1282 of 1595 🔗

Thanks for your help on the source of Hancock’s statistics. For info, here’s my response to my MP (who was arguing that masking was required because of excess deaths in the retail sector:
“Thank you for your prompt reply.

I have now had an opportunity to review the source of the statistics you quote. The data is wholly inadequate to justify a policy which, quite literally, changes the face of the people in whose interests you govern. The data is being used (I may say abused) to justify a policy decision that has already been taken.

  • The ONS study looked at deaths among men and women of working age (20-64 years old) up to 25 May. That does not equate to a death at work or a death caused by working conditions **.
  • The ‘excess death’ ratios you quote (75% for men and 60% for women) are a comparison with deaths among the whole population, most of whom were workers who were confined to their homes during the period under review or people who are not in employment. A comparison with all those who were out and about, working, would give radically different statistics.
  • The absolute numbers of deaths among workers in the ‘sales and retail assistants’ sector are small – 43 men and 64 women, among a total of 4,761 deaths in the ONS study.
  • When compared with the other occupations in the survey, the deaths of both men and women in the sector appear to be not far off average, if I interpret the graphs in the report correctly.
  • In terms of deaths per 100,000, male sales and retail assistants came behind (for example) ‘bookkeepers, payroll managers and wages clerks’.
  • Female sales and retail assistants came behind ‘National Government administrators’.
  • Yet I hear no call for bookkeepers and administrators to be specially protected.

** The report says in its summary:
“our findings do not prove conclusively that the observed rates of death involving COVID-19 are necessarily caused by differences in occupational exposure.

Now, compare this to the evidence of my own eyes. I have been to various supermarkets locally during lockdown; the staff have not been wearing masks (if they felt that they were in a dangerous workplace they would surely have done so). Almost without exception, they have told me that none of their colleagues have caught the virus. They have been cheerful, not fearful; it was some of the shoppers who were fearful, after a relentless diet of uncontextualized data provided by the government and media.

I would urge you to reconsider the decision to enforce mask-wearing – there is yet time to recognise the mistake.

Yours sincerely,”

I expect no response!

52710 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #1283 of 1595 🔗

A clear posthoc rationalisation hoping that no one puts any effort into debunking it. Fire it out there in a propaganda bomb and when the news cycle is around to the next absurdity (probably about 20 seconds later) hope that the majority of the goldfish have forgot about it.

It’s working well.

52721 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BTLnewbie, #1284 of 1595 🔗

Well put!

52729 ▶▶ Basics, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #1285 of 1595 🔗

Yeah as others say very well done.

52709 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1286 of 1595 🔗

Old but timeless. George Carlin on germs:

https://youtu.be/JSbT7JVNEU4

52719 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1287 of 1595 🔗

Armpits, asshole, crotch and teeth – so good

52728 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1288 of 1595 🔗

We need comics like George in times like these.

52718 TimJ, #1289 of 1595 🔗

Have posted a couple of times on this site before, but this latest inconsistent mask compulsion is really the last straw. We really need to be seen now to be resisting this with vigor and not just planning for our online retreat. If you and several of your like-minded friends go at one time to a shop and demand entry (with no masks) and this is repeated they will take notice – we really have not much to lose now, do we?

52723 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 6, #1290 of 1595 🔗

Just found this petition. Nearly at 10,000 signatures. Not quite on topic, but close enough.

Ban wearing face coverings in public places.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300471

52800 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Ozzie, 1, #1291 of 1595 🔗

Thanks Ozzie, Can you email this to Toby for him to put on the next newsletter – lots of folk may miss your comment otherwise.

52870 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to ShropshireLass, #1292 of 1595 🔗

Good suggestion. Just sent Toby an email.

52901 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1293 of 1595 🔗

Personally I dont think we should either ban face coverings or make them mandatory.

52907 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #1294 of 1595 🔗

My liberal instincts would agree with you, but given we seem to have long since abandoned any pretence at being a liberal country and moved to full collectivist authoritarianism, I think it would be good to at least ban something harmful for a change, like the mask wearing that spreads fearfulness and promotes the coronapanic that has trashed our economy and society..

52936 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Mark, #1295 of 1595 🔗

In my opinion that’s how we end up where we are. Its the government and military terrorising the population that has trashed our economy and society not mask wearing itself.

52733 Squire Western, replying to Squire Western, 20, #1296 of 1595 🔗

This debate about the importance or otherwise of wearing masks in indoor public spaces has generated a lot of hot air (no doubt containing plenty of droplets and aerosols) but it seems to have escaped everyone’s notice that we have been conducting an illuminating practical experiment since lockdown began.

Supermarkets and smaller food shops have been open all the time, and both staff and public have been (overwhelmingly) unmasked. Why are shop workers not all falling ill with SARS-CoV-2? I am unaware of a single outbreak in a shop. Is anyone else? If no shops have sustained coronavirus outbreaks despite workers being in this putatively dangerous indoor public space at a time when infection rates were much higher than they currently are, then the inescapable conclusion must be that the wearing of masks in shops is unnecessary as clearly the disease cannot being transmitted there.

52756 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to Squire Western, 2, #1297 of 1595 🔗

Great synopsis. Unfortunately logic does not maketh a policy. If it did, there would not have been a lockdown. I think we have given up trying to make sense of it all, I know I certainly have.

The frame of reference is just different. My focus now is not trying to explain how anything the government does will ‘combat the virus’, rather to figure out how a proposed policy will be used to combat me.

52770 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to Squire Western, 1, #1298 of 1595 🔗

What about airplanes? For a long time (before all the flights were canceled) they were carrying unmuzzled passengers across the skies – from at least November to March – and I didn’t hear about outbreaks in airplanes, and they are cramped places where people stay for several hours.

52808 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Squire Western, 6, #1299 of 1595 🔗

According to Matt Handjob, the consummate liar, they have been.

Hopefully, many people will look around them, note the absence of dead bodies at their local supermarket, and start thinking for themselves.

52833 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Farinances, 9, #1300 of 1595 🔗

I thought, about four months ago, that people noting a lack of rotting unburied bodies in the streets alongside a chorus of “bring out your dead,” would indicate a lack of Frankenstein’s virus spliced from smallpox and ebola. Apparently I was mistaken.

52905 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Farinances, 1, #1301 of 1595 🔗

If I may, ‘constant’, rather than ‘consummate’. The latter sugests being good at something, rather than doing it a lot.

52918 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1302 of 1595 🔗

Lol you’re right 😅

52815 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Squire Western, 7, #1303 of 1595 🔗

Spoke to one of the managers in my local supermarket this morning (city centre). No staff member to her knowledge has tested positive for the virus. None of the staff are wearing masks, and it was pretty late in putting up the plastic screens at the checkouts. Very few customers are wearing masks. Another entirely pointless decision by the government to mandate masks next week, and one which I think will backfire. But, hey, if it hastens the end to this entire madness by trashing the retail trade, and economy even further, it might serve a useful purpose!

52818 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Squire Western, 2, #1304 of 1595 🔗

Ditto Japan and seasonal flu.
As the Japanese wear them everywhere, then seasonal flu influence must be markedly lower than the rest of the world, if they work.
If on the other hand they are cult behaviour, Japanese flu incidence will be the same as Europe/USA

52912 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Squire Western, 3, #1305 of 1595 🔗

I think we all know that masks are nothing more than a placebo.

52913 ▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to Nobody2020, #1306 of 1595 🔗

Dr. Fauci called them a “symbol.” But most people missed that it seems.

52736 Sarigan, 4, #1307 of 1595 🔗

Covid summed up in 6 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPs3_0vPv90

52744 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 4, #1308 of 1595 🔗

Interesting video about police attempting to enforce face mask wearing in shops. Can someone verify this is the correct legal position?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkp-_XNYLuc&feature=youtu.be

52778 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ozzie, 4, #1309 of 1595 🔗

Interesting and she does have gorgeous hair!

52837 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ozzie, #1310 of 1595 🔗

This is brilliant. She talks slowly but you can watch on double speed. 😉

Transcript here: https://www.carolinestephens.net/post/the-mask

52908 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Ozzie, 2, #1311 of 1595 🔗

That is the most useful video I’ve seen on this issue all week. Thanks for sharing.

52749 Rachel, replying to Rachel, 1, #1312 of 1595 🔗

I don’t believe in face masks either. But they may help as placebos in encouraging the timid to come out again as restrictions are eased. Why I (sometimes) wear them in public. Over a month old, loose, with lint inside. Entirely to make others feel better and allay their groundless but real fears.

52773 ▶▶ steve, replying to Rachel, 11, #1313 of 1595 🔗

Don’t encourage them. Sends the wrong message. Like telling someone it’s safe to go on holiday but better pack your bullet proof jacket

52781 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to steve, 4, #1314 of 1595 🔗

a bullet proof jacket made out of cotton. Looks great, but unlikely to stop many actual bullets.

52804 ▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to RyanM, #1315 of 1595 🔗

Lol

52784 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Rachel, 12, #1316 of 1595 🔗

I think they actually work the other way. The theory is that people are reassured by having people around them prevented (supposedly) from spitting disease at them, but in reality I think any reassurance on that score is vastly outweighed by the increase in fearfulness resulting from the sight of real precautions being taken against what must (therefore) be a real personal threat.

52786 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Rachel, 4, #1317 of 1595 🔗

It may make some others feel safer, though on balance I think it does more to perpetuate the climate of (unwarranted) fear, which I suspect is more the motivation for making them compulsory now, when the virus has all but disappeared.

52794 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, 3, #1318 of 1595 🔗

I know people who say they make them feel safer, and who think anyone who doesn’t wear one is endangering lives. However those people will barely leave the house as it is, and would definitely not be risking a shopping trip just because they have become mandatory. Masks will tempt some out, and put others off. I’m honestly not sure there will be any net benefit in terms of getting people out and about again.

52798 ▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1319 of 1595 🔗

FWIW I support others’ rights to go unmasked.

52828 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rachel, #1320 of 1595 🔗

It’s not a right.

I’ll wear what I want on my body.

52830 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1321 of 1595 🔗

It has nothing to do with masks.

The government terrorised many people.

52789 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Rachel, 9, #1322 of 1595 🔗

People would come out from behind the sofa pretty sharpish if they had no choice, that is, furlough stopped and teachers, for example, forced to go back to the classroom under threat of being sacked!

52824 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1323 of 1595 🔗

Yep, the final solution (really in this case)!

52867 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1324 of 1595 🔗

Ronald Reagan fires the entire air traffic control when the refused to work. 🤔

52882 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to steve, 3, #1325 of 1595 🔗

There are times when you really don’t take prisoners. Messing with children’s lives is one such time, and for that, I will never forgive this government.

53017 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, -1, #1326 of 1595 🔗

I reckon the teacher unions have been behind the curve in terms of protecting children. But it’s the Brownshirt right-wing government of Spivs and Chancers that has been the prime mover. They are the real child abusers who shut schools and set up abusive frameworks for children to come back to.

52795 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Rachel, 4, #1327 of 1595 🔗

You’re a considerate person.

However, do we keep withdrawing heroine addicts on methodone forever?

52797 ▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to Farinances, #1328 of 1595 🔗

Nope. But tapering heroine may be necessary for some.
Getting people OUT is the first step.

52835 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rachel, 3, #1329 of 1595 🔗

Then the government should cease it’s terror campaign.

52849 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to John P, 5, #1330 of 1595 🔗

Absolutely. They should do what they started doing, which is to calmly present the facts, emphasising that the risks to most are minimal, and focusing on the short term aim of protecting healthcare from being overwhelmed.

52861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 3, #1331 of 1595 🔗

Ah, nostalgia. The days before 16 March 2020 and a dodgy model!

52884 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1332 of 1595 🔗

Oooh, a dodgy model! perhaps a bit grubby and with a disputed figure…sigh

52915 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Rachel, 1, #1333 of 1595 🔗

This is why cold turkey is usually better 😉

52922 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rachel, replying to Farinances, 2, #1334 of 1595 🔗

I was addicted to prescription pain killers for years. Tapering was necessary for me. The doctor who got me hooked denied responsibility and his fellow doctors refuse to whistle blow.
Not anti-medicine. But I despise most in the profession. Can’t trust any now.

52941 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Rachel, 2, #1335 of 1595 🔗

Wow. I’m noticing a LOT of bad experiences with the medical profession on here. No wonder everyone is so pissed off with them and cautious about their ‘advice’.

52864 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Farinances, 1, #1336 of 1595 🔗

Good analogy

52799 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Rachel, 4, #1337 of 1595 🔗

Simply patting the paranoid on the head doesn’t cure paranoia.

52802 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Rachel, 4, #1338 of 1595 🔗

It’s liable to remind the fearful that they are being treated as plague carriers so they will stay Way from others.
Mask wearing in shops was one of the steps taken by the Spiteful Nannying Party to stymie any economic recovery.

52811 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rachel, 8, #1339 of 1595 🔗

I think acting normal and smiling at people would be more reassuring than going around looking as if there’s something to fear.

52894 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1340 of 1595 🔗

That’s exactly how I’ve been with people I pass since day one of this lockdown. They all smile back, and relax (not too many mask wearers round these parts).

52817 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Rachel, 3, #1341 of 1595 🔗

No, I suspect mass wearing will suggest that terror stalks the Earth: better wrap up inside in a blanket and huddle below one’s bed!

52820 ▶▶ John P, replying to Rachel, 8, #1342 of 1595 🔗

“Entirely to make others feel better and allay their groundless but real fears.”

Well, it has the opposite effect on me. I find them very intimidating and their wearers to be creepy and sinister.

52886 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Rachel, 1, #1343 of 1595 🔗

No.

52904 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Rachel, 5, #1344 of 1595 🔗

I think that is a kindly response. I saw a lady in the co op today literally having a panic attack because someone had come too close. She was writhing and twisting and moaning. Another young guy with a massive respirator mask. This thing has made me aware of just how vulnerable people are mentally. I mean, they’re also gullible and complacent too but clearly so many near loonies out there-now they’re just easy to spot.

53022 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cruella, 1, #1345 of 1595 🔗

Went to Aldi this evening. Not a mask in sight. Had a nice chat with the checkout lady, who said she felt claustrophobic if she had to wear one. I said that meant she was medically exempt.
She said management were looking into the implications for them all. Let’s hope they consult their lawyers and not the H&S brigade!

52910 ▶▶ matt, replying to Rachel, 6, #1346 of 1595 🔗

I can’t agree. Consciously creating an inhuman environment may make those most petrified feel more comfortable in the short term, but in the long-term, all we are doing is perpetuating a myth and making it harder to return to reality in the medium in the long term.

The fear is indeed groundless but is not real. Human beings will revert to being human beings only once the media and their fellow human beings stop terrifying them into believing that the fourth horseman of the apocalypse is stalking the land. We cannot do that while we perpetuate the myth.

52911 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 3, #1347 of 1595 🔗

Reply to add – masks themselves are a myth. They do nothing. Wearing one in itself perpetuates the myth that they are valid.

53073 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to matt, 1, #1348 of 1595 🔗

It’s not going to be easy, I live in south Wales and will never wear a mask. I’m apprehensive and expect ‘looks’ possibly even abuse…..here I go. Mandatory on public transport from 27th July, but knowing Drakeford, him and his lot will do a U turn and make them mandatory everywhere….

53079 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Rachel, 1, #1349 of 1595 🔗

Sorry Rachel, I can’t agree.
Imagine you’re a child. Seeing everyone masked just reinforces ‘it’s scary out there!’. Seeing smiling, happy faces makes the scared feel ‘maybe I don’t need to be scared any more’.
… and some of the grown-ups need the same reassurance.

52787 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 10, #1350 of 1595 🔗

The bed wetter’s have inherited the earth

52814 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Cecil B, 3, #1351 of 1595 🔗

And are destroying it for everyone in the process.

52796 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 6, #1352 of 1595 🔗

AS facemask wearing in Japan is so prevalent, seasonal flu incidence must be markedly lower than the rest of the world if they are effective.
Everything I’ve seen indicates Japan has the same flu incidence as the rest of the 1st world, indicating that facades have no effect on aerosol virus spread.
Does anyone know anything to the contrary ?
After all its a real world live test of masks ability to retard virus spread, surely if they worked the boosters would be crowing about it?

52812 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1353 of 1595 🔗

I guess that the key question is do they wear them inside buildings (in which case any effect might become noticeable) or just outside, where risks are minimal anyway.

52834 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to IanE, 2, #1354 of 1595 🔗

Haven’t been to Tokyo since 1999, but outside due to pollution. The Japanese are naturally keen on social distancing however – they warn you politely if you are invading their space by putting their hands out at shoulder height.

52847 ▶▶▶▶ simon hill, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1355 of 1595 🔗

We were there a couple of years ago and mask wearing wasn’t as prevalent as u would think, mainly in the cities and on public transport. We never saw them in rural/ski areas. They are very sensible and only wear them if they were a bit under the weather themselves. It’s a myth that masks have saved Japan IMO.

52880 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1356 of 1595 🔗

For now I’m just looking for confirmation on flu incidence.

I’m aware they have a greater social bubble than the west, don’t shake hands on introduction etc which fits the meme of social distancing.
However their transport habits negate all that, greater Tokyo has a population of around 40 million and they are still stacking them in on trains, where the social distance is around 0.5 mm.

The main difference between the Japenese /Koreans and the west is toilet hygeine

Bidet toilets are installed in circa 75^ of homes in Japan & 50-60% in Korea. IF the primary transfer vector is hand / foecal contact like Norovirus and Polio, then their hygeine customs are more likely to interrupt than ours.
Strong possibility that the social distancing/ face mask thing is a massive red herring.

52871 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Nessimmersion, 4, #1357 of 1595 🔗

In HK it is customary to ware a face mask if you have a cold. Years ago I remember reading that HK still has one of the highest rates of common cold infection in the world despite this.

52999 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Saved To Death, 1, #1358 of 1595 🔗

That’s actually hilarious!

52883 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #1359 of 1595 🔗
52899 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1360 of 1595 🔗

I was curious about this too, so I looked it up. Just last year they had a very bad flu year.

https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00386/japan-gripped-by-major-flu-outbreak.html

And there are a couple of studies around that show masks make no difference to the number of confirmed flu infections.

53074 ▶▶ Rick, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1361 of 1595 🔗

In Japan during early part of outbreak whilst DP cruise ship in quarantine. They generally use masks for politeness rather than effectiveness. Not compulsory. Worn on trains and in buildings but seen them come off to sneeze! Also removed in very busy restaurants and bars. Like you I suspect research would already have documented positive effect if there was one. In conclusion: waste of time and money.

52826 Basics, replying to Basics, 10, #1362 of 1595 🔗

“We will not let these vile actions change the way we live”. Those are the words said by politicians after every terrorist attack that has ever been carried out. Given the depth and strength of evidences amassed by sceptics and beyond. Is their a case for the actions of SAGE (& others) and the governments amount to terrorism?

terrorism

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Thinking on from the FOI yesterday that Sturgeon has no records of decision making. Her memoir is going to be missing a pretty important chapter. The irresponsibilty of that alone belies fundamental good governance practices. That it doesn’t sound true is neitherhere nor there. Consciously made decisions were made to bring about this situation. Collusion as Toby writes above, or conspriacy as others say. Odd, middling to extremely odd, that no records were kept.

Does anyone have any thoughts about my speculation that our collective situation may be terrorism?

Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them.

From: 1994 United Nations Declaration on Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism annex to UN General Assembly resolution 49/60 ,”Measures to Eliminate International Terrorism”, of December 9, 1994, UN Doc. A/Res/60/49

52845 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 3, #1363 of 1595 🔗

With the Spiteful Nannying Party, everything is political.
They would be well aware they were taking economically harmful actions and would not want a written record.
Word on the street is that the facemasks in shops and other actions to delay return to normal is part of a gameplan to wreck the economy, stymie any recovery and then blame the eeeeeevil tories.
They have previous on this and are aware they have more chance.of their particular brand of resentful stupidity bearing fruit in a recession – template Germany in the 1930’s

52898 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #1364 of 1595 🔗

Do you really think Labour would be any better?

53101 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to John P, #1365 of 1595 🔗

I’m glad you agree with me about the Natzis.
Labour & Natzis have pretty much the same voter base and recruit from the same political shallow pool, so unlikely to be better.
Labour did have a less compliant press, BBC would occasionally report negative news, whereas BBC scotland are krankies biggest cheerleaders

52892 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 5, #1366 of 1595 🔗

Has a group with a shared ideology put fear into people? Interrupted the peaceful enjoyment of their lives? Made them afraid to go out? Attacked the laws and economy of a country?
I’d say the T word applies…

52978 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1367 of 1595 🔗

I feel it’s a larger attack (if right word) than countries laws. It appears the G20 with ensared equally important countries – e.g. African and South America areas.

Global terror perhaps. The scientific modelling and advice appears to transcend borders where politics appears not to, at least on the superficial level.

52895 ▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 5, #1368 of 1595 🔗

Does anyone have any thoughts about my speculation that our collective situation may be terrorism?

Yes, it’s terrorism. State mandated terrorism.

53067 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to John P, 1, #1369 of 1595 🔗

i do believe governments have enacted terrorism upon their people.

52836 janis pennance, replying to janis pennance, 16, #1370 of 1595 🔗

How much do I love this site … in fact need this site . I’m totally beyond trying to reason with folk , they have just gone completely stark staring mad !
Well I will not be wearing a mask , just going to see what happens …re-education maybe ?
Room 101 ? I’m honestly beyond caring what happens ….I know one thing ..no-one will catch anything from me that a bit of cloth will stop . Jeez

52857 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to janis pennance, 8, #1371 of 1595 🔗

Me too! This place is a refuge of sanity!

53041 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to janis pennance, #1372 of 1595 🔗

I’not going to wear a mask either, walking the walk

52838 RickH, replying to RickH, 2, #1373 of 1595 🔗

I’ve got my ‘V for Vendetta’ face mask, plus stencils for logos on other masks – and some Highwayman masks.

These are for ringing the changes on the ‘TAKE THE PISS OUT OF IDIOTS’ strategy.

But the serious approach will be to simply state exemption on the basis of the bleedin’ obvious : they are uncomfortable at best, and have proven dangers (but no established benefits).

Interesting times for those without Brown Shirts or brown pants.

52855 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to RickH, 2, #1374 of 1595 🔗

I’m imagining tomorrow’s Daily Mail headline: “Hurrah for the Brown Pants!”

52841 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 3, #1375 of 1595 🔗

Not sure if anyone has been keeping up to date with the rubbish being pushed out by MD in Private Eye over the last few months. We know which way he leans on the lockdown debate and for most of it to go unchallenged, in a publication that critiques both others and normally itself, is pretty dire in my opinion . I would love to put a name to the anonymous doctor because this item in the current issue (in his now dedicated section at the front of the magazine) is nothing short of shameless begging for our friends at Imperial College.

Imperial Ambitions (page 8)
LONDON’s Imperial College vaccine team is hoping that instead of growing the whole virus and then killing or weakening it to use in a vaccine, you can just use viral “spikes” to get a big enough immune response. These surface spikes allow the virus to get into human cells. The hope is that genetic instructions can be inserted into human muscle cells to get them to churn out the spikes in the same way a Sars-CoV-2 infection would, tricking the immune system into thinking there’s an infection.
Imperial, with philanthropic and UK government funding, has formed a social enterprise that aims to ensure fair distribution by waiving royalties for low-income countries so the poorest get it for free, and the richest pay a bit more. Human trials start in October and Imperial are looking for volunteers.

[a link follows to the ICL website where you can sign up, though I refuse to copy it here]

52851 ▶▶ Will, replying to Howie59, 6, #1376 of 1595 🔗

I will not be buying private eye again until Hislop is gone.

52863 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Will, 3, #1377 of 1595 🔗

I have bought it for years but the last edition did it for me. Won’t be bothering from now on.

52986 ▶▶▶▶ Scapes, replying to arfurmo, 4, #1378 of 1595 🔗

I’m the same. Not buying it anymore. I really expected more balance from Private Eye!

52993 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Scapes, 5, #1379 of 1595 🔗

Exactly. It’s supposed to be a satirical mag, not a piece of govt propaganda. I’m very disappointed.

53040 ▶▶ Charles, replying to Howie59, 1, #1380 of 1595 🔗

Most bizarre, isn’t it? MD’s first thoughts were ‘wash your hands and get a grip’; only for an ornate u-turn to follow. One wonders quite why.

53173 ▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Howie59, #1381 of 1595 🔗

I’ve been so infuriated by Private Eye’s coverage that I’ve cancelled my subscription renewal. Never thought I’d say that. Unfortunately I’m still stuck with it until September.

53198 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Gossamer, #1382 of 1595 🔗

Make sure you tell the morons why.

52866 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 50, #1383 of 1595 🔗

I’ve decided to take a more active stance in confronting stupidity. I’m getting more and more frustrated at the pathetic antics of the sheeple when I have to interact with them. So, with as much courtesy as I can muster I’m going to speak my mind more often.
Today my wife and I visited Ilkley, a charming small town nestling below the famous Ilkley moor. We approached the station cafe with the possibility of buying a hot drink only to see the chap who was serving lathering his hands with what appeared to be some kind of thick, gunky lotion after every customer. Boy did he rub it in, through his fingers, backs of hands, round about the wrists and of course there was a dispenser inviting us to use it ourselves. ‘You do realise that most of that stuff will end up in your bloodstream’ I said, ‘are you doing that all day?’. This rather took the wind out of his sails. ‘it’s to kill the virus’ he replied. To which my riposte was ‘I don’t know about the virus, but at the very least you’ll probably get a severe case of dermatitis and at worse you’ll be setting yourself up for something really serious as you get older. I was thinking of buying a sandwich from you but after seeing what you are doing with your hands I’ll not bother’. And with that my wife and I walked off. It felt good, and who knows it may have made him think.

Every shop doorway we passed had a hand sanitising dispenser inviting you to chemically pollute your hands. At the White Stuff shop my wife, as eager as me to confront rank stupidity, poked her head in and said ‘I’m allergic to hand sanitisers–can I come in?’. To which the masked crusader of an assistant said ‘I can give you some gloves’. ‘I’ll not bother’ said wife and on we strolled. Past the arrows and pavement stickers and shop window notices all begging you to come in whilst not realising that to any ‘normal’ person their antics were a sure fire way of putting you off.
The high point of our visit was to the Booths super market which has long since traded on a reputation as the Fortnum and Masons of the North. We like this shop and have visited the Ilkley branch since it opened over twenty years ago. The ‘guard’ outside gave my wife a trolley and asked if I would like a trolley or a basket. ‘Neither’ I replied, ‘we’re together so one trolley will be enough. ‘I’m afraid you must have one or the other, every person must have a trolley or basket, but I’ll put the basket in the trolley for you and you can wheel them around together.’ I could have offered a hundred ridiculous comments to this but I could see the lad was only doing his job and seemed nice enough and besides he wasn’t wearing a mask which always earns Brownie points in my book, so I smiled, thanked him and in we went.
Off went my wife shopping with her trolley AND her basket and I asked if I could speak to the store manager. ‘Certainly’ said the young assistant, could I ask what it’s about?’ ‘It’s concerning store policy with regard to the ‘virus” I replied. A hasty ‘phone call resulted in the appearance in double quick time of the store manager and store supervisor. I was honoured—two for the price of one, who can complain? I started by mentally rehearsed words in a friendly and quiet tone not wanting to appear in the least confrontational.
‘My wife and I have been coming to this store since it opened and we enjoy shopping here. We live some miles away and this is not our nearest supermarket. We have a Sainsburys and Tesco closer and first indications from these giants is that they will NOT be enforcing the wearing of face masks for shoppers from 24th July. Also, it would seem, the police have stated that there is no way they can ‘enforce’ the government guidance on this issue. I personally do not object in the slightest if other people choose to wear a face covering but I will not under any circumstances be compelled to wear one. I would consider it an infringement of my personal human rights, not to mention the negative effects on my health that wearing a mask would induce. Bearing this in mind, and as a long term customer, would you kindly explain to me Booths policy on wearing masks?
I received what can only be described as a positive and encouraging reply. ‘We have recently told all our staff that the wearing of masks is for them to decide but we would prefer it if they didn’t. You are right about the police, they cannot enforce fines on private land and as for our policy to our customers; we tend to follow the big boys, we cannot afford not to, but our policy is still evolving but I wouldn’t think forcing customers to wear masks would be in our best interests.

I was really appreciative of this answer and told her so and asked if she would convey my comments to head office..’I certainly will’ she replied.

A good result, a good day out, no belittling or antagonising anyone. It’s OK letting off steam in forums like this but it’s in the real world where we need to make our presence felt–I’ve made a start!

52889 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #1384 of 1595 🔗

Excellent! I used to shop in Booths before all this nonsense started, and it seems as though I could start doing so again.

52916 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to CarrieAH, 4, #1385 of 1595 🔗

Good stuff! Just remember if there’s two of you you’ll be given two trolleys or a basket inside a trolley. I forgot to mention in my original post that I did ask the ‘guard’ if it was OK to visit the toilet if I wasn’t shopping but waiting for my wife outside in my car. ‘Certainly, but I’ll need to give you a trolley, just leave it outside the loo and then return it to me when your done’. What is it with Booths and trolleys??

52926 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1386 of 1595 🔗

I think it’s a way to monitor the number of people in the shop.

52968 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1387 of 1595 🔗

Could you ask for the trolley in the basket..

53069 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Basics, 1, #1388 of 1595 🔗

Put the basket on your head about as effective as a face nap.

52974 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #1389 of 1595 🔗

Can you insist on a trolley with a basket inside per person?

I bet the trolley thing, stupid as it is, but can anyone explain what difference the basket can possibly make under any circumstances?

52890 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Harry hopkins, 9, #1390 of 1595 🔗

Speak out politely it so effective. Simple rules of engagement:
Smile
Brief
Polite
Ask and listen
No convincing
Enjoy.

52959 ▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #1391 of 1595 🔗

Thank you for this Harry Hopkins.
You write so well that I’ve read it out to my children who have listened as if was a bedtime story. It gave them some excellent tips on civility and good manners to imitate.

It is not our place to bully and sneer (except here, occasionally…) but it is our duty to educate and inform where possible. You are a shining example.

53096 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Little Red Hen, 2, #1392 of 1595 🔗

You do me a great honour—thank you.

53037 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Harry hopkins, #1393 of 1595 🔗

Excellent stuff!

53078 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Harry hopkins, #1394 of 1595 🔗

That is encouraging. I was in a branch of Aldi today, quite busy, no staff wearing masks, maybe 2 or 3 customers wearing them. Nice relaxed atmosphere about the place. I think most people have decided that the panic is overeally. Still some social distancing which I’m happy enough with.

52868 Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1395 of 1595 🔗

I’ve been lurking here since May and taking solace in the fact there are others who think like I do and I’m not alone in rejecting everything to do with the “new” abnormal. I was envious that in England you weren’t being forced to muzzle up, but alas you are now in the same predicament. I left the city I love when it became too dystopian looking and retreated to my country home for a sense of normalcy. When Toronto mandated face masks a few weeks ago I cried, but was still grateful for the normalcy up here. Well, my relief was short lived, as my county — with a whopping ONE active case of Covid — has mandated the same nonsense as of Friday. That announcement led to a full-day meltdown. All the while I’ve been gathering and coming up with my own protest mask slogans, hoping I’d never have to use them. I thought I’d share for those of you who will don the mask but want to be on record as doing so under duress. I plan to write some or all of the following on my collection of masks:

Seen But Not Herd
Mass(ked) Hysteria
Covid-1984
Anti-socially Distanced
Silence of the Lambs
“New” Normal with NOT written above and the “New” crossed out
Herd Immunity with Immunity crossed out and Mentality written above

Because of the anxiety this has provoked, my husband will be doing most of the shopping for us. But if I need to run in and out of a store I plan to wear a protest mask. If I need to wear something for longer, I’m going to try a silk scarf — very light and breathable — tied like a balaclava. I also ordered silk (with a bit of spandex) balaclavas for outdoor use; they’re for UV sun protection, sand, wind, etc. and wick the moisture away and are supposed to keep you cool. Of course both of these –like masks — are utterly useless for Covid, but that’s the idea. Wish I could attend the anti-mask protest in London but, alas, that would require me to muzzle up for the flight and that is something I will never do.

52873 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #1396 of 1595 🔗

Australia well and truly has disappeared down the rabbit hole . At present the state of Victoria after locking down in the summer ( March ) when the coronavirus first arrived has now discovered that it is a seasonal virus and just loves the Melbourne winter with temperatures much akin to the south of England in February /March.

The Labor premier of Victoria sadly announced the passing away of a 90 year old ” of coronavirus ” . The hysteria of the media is 10 x worse than the UK it is as if Piers Morgan was editing the Melbourne Age.

Try the link and weep at what has happened to the Australian character.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/one-more-covid-19-death-238-new-cases-in-victoria-20200715-p55c6v.html

52875 ▶▶ John P, replying to Peter Thompson, -2, #1397 of 1595 🔗

Not ninety. In her nineties.

52965 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 6, #1398 of 1595 🔗

Christ, John. Do stop it.

53011 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Peter Thompson, #1399 of 1595 🔗

I remember saying to Does Dim Syniad back in the spring (on another site), after what appeared to be a very fast and thorough sorting of Covid in Oz, that I hoped it wasn’t seasonal.

52888 ShropshireLass, replying to ShropshireLass, 7, #1400 of 1595 🔗

Regarding the comment about pubs, restaurants and cafes insisting that it is a legal requirement for customers to provide contact details for test and trace purposes – it ISN’T!
It is encouraged, but is actually ‘voluntary’, so if like me you are worried about security of data and its potential misuse, let alone the freedom and human rights issue, here is the link to the guidance – note it is not a regulation:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/maintaining-records-of-staff-customers-and-visitors-to-support-nhs-test-and-trace#how-records-should-be-maintained

‘If someone does not wish to share their details, or provides incorrect information
Although this is voluntary, please encourage customers and visitors to share their details in order to support NHS Test and Trace and advise them that this information will only be used where necessary to help stop the spread of COVID-19.’

52896 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to ShropshireLass, 6, #1401 of 1595 🔗

The document describes itself as ‘non-statutory guidance’. ‘Nuff said.

52983 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ShropshireLass, 2, #1402 of 1595 🔗

You can play a significant role in helping your staff, customers and visitors understand the importance of NHS Test and Trace and play their part in stopping the spread of COVID-19. Please do this by explaining why you are asking for contact information and encouraging them to provide it .

I phoned a local pub yesterday to see what hoops would have to be jumped through in order ot have lunch. I was told I’d have to book online or by phone because of test and trace.

Does that mean that if I refuse to give my details, they refuse to let me in?

I’d read elsewhere that the customer could refuse permission for the info to be passed on but presumably that would be after it had already been obtained.

On the other hand, I phoned my favourite little cafe today to ask the same question and was told I didn’t need to book, they’re not doing track and trace.

53035 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1403 of 1595 🔗

Easily solved. Give false details. Pay with cash.

52897 TyLean, replying to TyLean, -1, #1404 of 1595 🔗

I think Tony is gone.

52900 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TyLean, #1405 of 1595 🔗

Oh, Please No!

52902 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1406 of 1595 🔗

It’s been over 24 hours. 5 emails pleading for a reply since. Police were contacted and everything, but…. I don’t know.

52903 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1407 of 1595 🔗

It’s been a very difficult day.

52923 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to TyLean, 21, #1408 of 1595 🔗

Just heard from someone….. he’s been tracked down. Phew….. relieved!

52924 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TyLean, 5, #1409 of 1595 🔗

Great news!

52932 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to TyLean, 4, #1410 of 1595 🔗

Thank god for that, well done for finding out Tylean.

53008 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TyLean, #1411 of 1595 🔗

:o))

53020 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to TyLean, #1412 of 1595 🔗

Just scrolled down and read that – thank God.

53055 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to TyLean, #1413 of 1595 🔗

Well done you, gold star. I started to worry when it was getting dusk.

53076 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TyLean, 1, #1414 of 1595 🔗

That’s good news

53019 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to TyLean, 2, #1415 of 1595 🔗

He’s been on my mind all day. I don’t know…..many people who intend to take their lives indeed say nothing, but some do say say something before they do. My hope all day has been is that he has not done this and is still here.

52919 Stephen McMurray, 8, #1416 of 1595 🔗

I think everyone on this site should contact all the major supermarket chains and tell them we will not be shopping with them if they try to enforce the muzzle law.

52925 Bill h, replying to Bill h, 9, #1417 of 1595 🔗

Did anyone happen to watch Channel 4 News this evening ?

Ok the usual MSM propaganda in the main broadcast.

What really shocked was the intro trailer.

Guy leaning out of a window, high up, as into the breeze.

A crowd of kids in school uniforms singing.

A couple putting on some heavy duty headphones, blocking out the outside world.

Then a shot of all the kids falling forward onto their faces, as though in a scene from Ring a RIng a Roses.

This was fear porn at its most offensive and insidious.

How can I find out who is responsible for this dangerous garbage ?

THEY MUST BE CALLED OUT. NOW.

52947 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bill h, 1, #1418 of 1595 🔗

Thank you for describing that and drawing attn to it. I haven’t seen it but I am interested to know the deoths they will go. In my opinion c4 are particularly brutal, although I am by no means a regular viewer. Gordon(?) Paterson talking after his ordeal and toasting of Cathy Newman did a great deal to describe the manipulative powers at work in the c4 news production crew. The small amounts of their reports and interviewing keeps me away. Thank you for your account of how shocking their output is.

52980 ▶▶▶ Bill h, replying to Basics, 1, #1419 of 1595 🔗

Yes, I’m a pretty cynical kinda guy but this was truly outrageous.

I’ve got it recorded ( so I can burn past the adverts if watching on fast forward later] , but on the More 4 (or whatever ) website, they only have the bare programme – so the trailer has been dumped down the memory hole.

Anyone any idea how to retrieve it? As I say, I think of myself as a bit inured – this was 120% off scale.

Cheers

52988 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bill h, #1420 of 1595 🔗

I don’t Bill. But I’m sure some one will know. If a great reckoning happens these details are important I feel. Like the tactical gloves appear on front pages. If no reckoning then bury in back garden for the future to find – humans did this once upon a time.

53015 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Bill h, 1, #1421 of 1595 🔗

Vile propaganda

52927 Ruth Sharpe, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 11, #1422 of 1595 🔗

This is a genuine question. I have seen it stated that the Wuflu is a nonsocomial infection. This means that the infection has been acquired in hospital (or other institutions) by people that presumably went into hospital without it. So, if face masks are so good, why is the infection spread so easily in hospital, where presumably face masks are worn by most people. Just a thought – hopefully not a stupid one.

52931 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 8, #1423 of 1595 🔗

***EXACTLY****

(I don’t think Our Glorious Rulers or their ‘Scientific’ Avatars have mentioned the word ‘nocosomial’* once in 100 days. In the time it’s taken for me to muster up the brain-finger coordination to type it correctly {about er…. four weeks} they’ve gone further and further down the airborne train completely ignoring all the hard evidence at hand that this thing is transmitted with CLOSE and REGULAR contact. In environments where people are LIVING, or working at a push. Or working among people who are living there ;p )

*LOL

52944 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Farinances, 2, #1424 of 1595 🔗

I hadn’t a clue what it meant when I first saw it, but it does seem to make a mockery of the need to wear face masks.

52945 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Farinances, 2, #1425 of 1595 🔗

Can someone tell Farry that it’s ‘nosocomial’? I can’t bring myself to irritate a fellow believer 🙂 🙂

52948 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, #1426 of 1595 🔗

Hence the *LOL

52949 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sam Vimes, #1427 of 1595 🔗

I’ll assume it was intended irony 😉

52952 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cicatriz, #1428 of 1595 🔗

Oh it really was a genuine typo! – I had an audible laugh at myself and put the lol in cause, I mean. That’s funny.

52950 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1429 of 1595 🔗

You do like correcting people don’t you? (Normally I would pilkunnussija you but I’m in a good *mood today)

For God’s sake I can’t type tho

52954 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Farinances, #1430 of 1595 🔗

I’m just good with words, innit? Sometimes I’m completely photosynthesis.

52967 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1431 of 1595 🔗

I think spelling and punctuation mistakes can be creative.

I pride myself on gaining an A grade in English Language O level despite never knowing how to use one of these things:

“;”

I’m not even sure what it is?

A semi colon is surely what you get when you’ve had part of your digestive tract removed.

52971 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, 1, #1432 of 1595 🔗

… and don’t give me all of that “clause” mullarkey.

My grammar died nearly twenty years ago.

52992 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 1, #1433 of 1595 🔗

Malarkey

52972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to John P, 1, #1434 of 1595 🔗

It’s like that meme (one of my faves)

“But Shakespeare, you can’t just *make*up*words*”
“That’s what you think, kiddo!”

52990 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to John P, 1, #1435 of 1595 🔗

I’m so creative I sit here in a beret and painters smock as I type. Sorry for every typo and error I’ve caused none were creative all are a small wound in my soul, but I soldier on.

52997 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 1, #1436 of 1595 🔗

My typos are now a point of pride – they signal that I’m trying to manoeuvre my sausage fingers around a pre-dinnertray-sized phone because I REFUSE to update my tech whilstever the current one is still working.

Also, those new phones are bigger than my face.

53014 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Farinances, 3, #1437 of 1595 🔗

My Nokia 3210 is in the post, going to ditch my ‘smart’ phone.

53047 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Farinances, 1, #1438 of 1595 🔗

This was obvious from early reports including the index case (couple returning from China) in US were 49 contacts were traced including relatives etc in close contact yet only husband was found positive.

52937 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #1439 of 1595 🔗

This might interest you:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8526465/Super-spreader-nurse-hospital-training-event-triggered-Covid-19-outbreak-insiders-claim.html

It spreads around hospitals if the staff are not adhering to the guidelines. You might recall early on, a cancer doctor in Liverpool refusing to self-isolate when returning from a skiing hotspot, and concerns being expressed that he might have passed it around his hospital. It is like other hospital-acquired infections, such as MRSA, where I recall seeing evidence many years ago that pinned several outbreaks on poor hygiene among healthcare workers, in addition to the physical site itself.

52964 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1440 of 1595 🔗

I literally made the MRSA comparison about two months ago.

As you can see, I am still smug about this.

53026 ▶▶▶ janis pennance, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1441 of 1595 🔗

Oddly enough I went into hospital last year for a minor surgical procedure. At the check in I had to have a nasal swab for MRSA . The nurse told me they would send it to be tested but unfortunately everyone comes for the surgery before the results are back !!!!!

52973 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #1442 of 1595 🔗

Before this nonsense took over, masks were only worn in surgery to prevent the surgeon from getting an faceful of godknowswhat, or conversely to prevent the surgeon from dribbling into the patient’s open wound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVNOY9l6eYI

52979 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1443 of 1595 🔗

Exactly (but could do without the dribbling bit 😃 ). So this is why months ago the emphasis was on washing hands constantly? So what caused the switch to emphasising muzzle wearing and when did it happen? Has anyone researched it?

53012 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to bluemoon, 3, #1444 of 1595 🔗

I think the handwashing thing was proving too effective.

53048 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1445 of 1595 🔗

I reckon that’s true. Some way back in this farce I was having a telephone ‘consultation’ and was expressing scepticism about what the actual numbers showed about Covid, and the person I was talking to said that the main effect – related to better basic hygeine – was in damping down MRSA and other key infections. Covid wasn’t really on the hospital radar.

… but that wouldn’t make the Scary Fairy dance, would it?

52989 ▶▶ matt, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 5, #1446 of 1595 🔗

Guy123 should feel free to shoot me down here, but…

Nosocomial spread simply means that it spreads more easily in settings with intense viral load with poor ventilation. Hospitals and care homes are examples of these. As would be being shut in a small flat with a sick person with the windows closed. Honestly, a badly ventilated pub where you spent an evening near someone with a virus (any virus) might be another example. All different degrees, though, obviously.

There are some studies that show (not especially conclusively) that surgical grade medical masks, worn by people who know how to put them on and take them off and have been properly fitted for them have a marginal benefit, so in theory, this means that there is some protection when it comes to clinical staff in a hospital.

There is no evidence that putting a piece of cloth over your mouth can protect you from anything other than the disapprobation of the virtue signalling idiots in your immediate vicinity. And there is very little evidence that being near to someone who has the virus for a few minutes in a supermarket puts you at much risk in the first place.

53152 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to matt, #1447 of 1595 🔗

Thank you – that seems an emminently sensible reply. I guess it still comes down to the fact that the studies about wearing masks in any situation are inconclusive. Glad it wasn’t a stupid thought.

52930 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, 13, #1448 of 1595 🔗

How long will it be until we’re told there’s a landfill problem cause by the millions of discarded face masks?!

52933 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Montag Smith, 5, #1449 of 1595 🔗

I think there’s probably already one.

52935 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Montag Smith, 4, #1450 of 1595 🔗

They can congeal with the Thames sanitary blockage.

52939 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #1451 of 1595 🔗

A week?

52966 ▶▶ steve, replying to Montag Smith, 10, #1452 of 1595 🔗

Don’t worry. They are not in landfill, they are scattered all over the parks, hedges, pavements

52987 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Montag Smith, 5, #1453 of 1595 🔗

Wonder how many dolts will try and flush them down the toilet.

53077 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #1454 of 1595 🔗

Don’t forget the gloves too – they can be in tandem

52934 ScooBieDee, replying to ScooBieDee, 12, #1455 of 1595 🔗

Does anyone know what the “official” advice is for what you’re meant to do when you cough or sneeze AND you’re wearing a mask? So there’s guidelines telling you how to make one, how to put it on etc etc but not what is meant to happen at the critical event of its existence?

Maybe you just cough or sneeze into the mask (yugh) allowing it to carry germs (possibly) around with you all day or, heaven forbid, maybe you’re meant to take it off and cough/sneeze into a disposable tissue and bin it? In which case – what’s the point?

52943 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to ScooBieDee, 5, #1456 of 1595 🔗

That’s a very good point! Sneezing + coughing to expel pollutants, irritants etc which then end up sat in your mask for you to keep on breathing in

53039 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to kbeanie, 1, #1457 of 1595 🔗

Was in Tokyo whilst DP cruise ship was being quarantined. Many Japanese people already wear masks when unwell (politeness not effectiveness) saw them remove sneeze then put back??? Also take off in crowded restaurants etc. Pointless. They are at least free to not wear.

52946 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to ScooBieDee, 11, #1458 of 1595 🔗

Hence the thing everyone (with sense) keeps saying that masks are dangerous because you can actually increase your own viral load if you’re infected. So, you may think you’re protecting other people (unlikely – the sneeze will escape), but all you’re really doing is making SURE you breathe in your own virus secretions after your body has done its job of expelling them.

52951 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to ScooBieDee, 13, #1459 of 1595 🔗

It’s easy. As mandated, you wear your facial germ and snot concentrator all day, sneezing and coughing into it, fiddle with it unconciously, and spread your bugs to everything you touch in the shops. That way, you aren’t killing my granny, honest. It’s true I saw it on the telly.

52955 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to ScooBieDee, 5, #1460 of 1595 🔗

When you get those weird protracted coughs/sneezes where you keep drawing in breath before it’s finally expelled, is it possible to inhale the mask into your mouth?

I’ve never worn one, nor given it much thought before. Honest.

52960 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #1461 of 1595 🔗

I hope I never have to find out !

52961 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cicatriz, 10, #1462 of 1595 🔗

I’m sure I saw someone do this the other day. He was in a warehouse lifting heavy things, so breathing heavily (wearing a mask – the goon). I saw him inhale sharply and his mask just sort of sucked into his face, suddenly, and he jumped a mile. It was funny as fuck.

52963 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Farinances, 2, #1463 of 1595 🔗

Showing masks are at least good for schadenfreude.

53018 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Farinances, 6, #1464 of 1595 🔗

They look like facial camel toes when they do that.

53033 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sarigan, 1, #1465 of 1595 🔗

Hahahaha! omg!

53009 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to ScooBieDee, 4, #1466 of 1595 🔗

Just in time for hayfever season

53031 ▶▶ Rick, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #1467 of 1595 🔗

It seems like you just throw it on the floor or chuck it in the sea. Far too many of the disgusting things ending up has litter!

53126 ▶▶ Bella, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #1468 of 1595 🔗

Yep, like wearing your snotty handkerchief over your face all day after you have blown your nose into it. (Bonus, you can eat the snot if it’s in your mask without people noticing.)

52958 Hopper, #1469 of 1595 🔗

My skepticism started re: smokers and ACE2. To begin with smokers were apparently at more risk than non-smokers due to a LACK of ACE2 receptors. Shortly after, studies started showing smokers to possess MORE ACE2 receptors and now that was to be the reason smokers were at more risk. For me that’s seriously whack that something that made the general population safer, when applied to smokers apparently causes the opposite. Whatever fits the narrative, right? Then I saw a study that found mice with ACE2 receptors removed suffered severe breathing difficulties when infected with the original SARS virus (study 2008). If mice without ACE2 get seriously ill, why is it assumed that SARS round 2 is entering via ACE2? Let alone as stated at the start that smokers were apparently damned whether they had more or less of the population of ACE2. Can anyone explain this to this apparent idiot?

52985 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1470 of 1595 🔗

Despite the hype – certainly enough to juice the stockmarket on both sides of the Atlantic today – perhaps it’s not all plain sailing for one of the ‘advanced’ vaccine candidates:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-induced-adverse-reactions-more-half-trial-participants

Some interesting comments under the article – there are many fellow sceptics over there!

52994 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1471 of 1595 🔗

Zero Hedge has been weird on this. They’ve mostly gone down the covi-pocolypse route (in fairness they’re usually predicting economic armageddon) but throw in the odd article disputing the severity. Early on, they were pushing the China bioweapon angle, which landed them getting banned from Twitter (they were accused of doxxing a Chinese doctor by Buzzfeed of all people).

Lately, every single article on covid is met by howls of people telling them it’s a hoax in the comments section. A few theories are that Zero Hedge need to keep the covid doom headlines so that google doesn’t block them.

With all that said, they were highlighting the crazy goings on in the financial repo markets last Autumn and talking about the unprecedented wave of CEO resignations around the time. Is it all linked? I’ve no idea, but it would make a decent TV series, albeit needing about 500 episodes to cram the plot in.

As for the vaccine, it’s not really surprising since these things take years to make (when they even work). Suddenly we can just turn it around in a few months?

53023 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #1472 of 1595 🔗

Zero Hedge has not had a good war!

53059 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1473 of 1595 🔗

A lot of my previous gotos have not had a good war. Zero Hedge has at least been better than Moon of Alabama.

53024 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1474 of 1595 🔗

I tend to scan for articles on firms that take my eye, such as this one, or from people whose opinions interest me – Ron Paul, Bill Blain, Jeffrey Gundlach.

He is quite brave in what he hosts, hence why he was banished from several sites. For example, there were several virus-related articles some time ago that played to the narrative of the virus having escaped the Wuhan lab (long before the State Department’s dossier); an interesting piece covering the work of four Indian researchers who had sequenced the RNA genome, and found four unusual HIV ‘inserts’ (I think they were forced to withdraw the paper), and an article from Luc Montagnier who received the Nobel prize for his work on HIV.

Yes, there were certainly a few high-profile retirements (and cashing in of share options) at the very start of the year. Few investors saw the sell-off in March though – notable exception being Mark Spitznagel, advised by Nicholas Taleb – returned 4,144% in Q1!

 Mind you, looking at the US market now, it’s almost as if the virus never happened.

53066 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1475 of 1595 🔗

Over the past few years I was speculating that the China trade war was a clever insider trading wheeze. We’d get a statement from Trump claiming good progress (markets up) and then one from someone else, Xi, saying nothing doing (markets down). Lots of volatility, which is perfect for them day traders.
Although I have no idea if I was right, I am now wondering if we’re going to get something similar (vaccine progress ^ / vaccine setbacks ˬ)

53007 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1476 of 1595 🔗

I like this one:

You Were NOT born with a Vaccination deficiency

52995 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 9, #1477 of 1595 🔗

Maybe there’s a typo in Revelation, and it should be the Mask of the Beast, and not the Mark of the Beast.

Although a mask is a type of mark in a way. It’s what it represents that counts. It’s a symbol of submission – to one world totalitarian government. A pernicious system of government that is attempting to muzzle all mankind and rob it of its humanity.

This mark will eventually be required to survive. It will be required to buy and sell, including food.

The leaders in charge are puppets who may or may not be aware of what they’re doing. We are at the end of the curve. We have been shopping in supermarkets for weeks without masks. All this talk of a second wave is just an excuse. A smokescreen.

I’m going to make a prediction, and will put my hands up and admit I was wrong if I turn out to be wrong: If I’m wrong you can call me a crackpot! My prediction is this:

The government will make it mandatory to wear a mask outside. In other words, whenever you leave your house.

Watch this space.

(I will never wear a mask).

53010 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #1478 of 1595 🔗

Gosh, I do sound like a crackpot, lol. But I will never wear a mask!

53127 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Jonathan Castro, #1479 of 1595 🔗

I’m pretty sure I read somewhere earlier that a council in Blackburn has beaten you to it and is requiring masks in all public places in their area… Outside and in, I take that to mean?

53178 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Mark II, #1480 of 1595 🔗

I think caught the end of an interview on Talk Radio between councillor from Blackburn & Darwin council, I wondered what the full story was.

53030 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #1481 of 1595 🔗

They won’t. Will they try?….. Ooooh. Unsure.

I don’t think they will succeed, because I think that would be the last straw for a lot of people.

53036 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Farinances, #1482 of 1595 🔗

I admit looking back at my post now it sounds utterly insane. A ridiculous assertion! Better wait and see I suppose. Or make plans to leave the country…

53082 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #1483 of 1595 🔗

After the madness of the past few months you sound positively sane.Spain and Belgium have mandated masks in public that I know of .

53046 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #1484 of 1595 🔗

I hope you are wrong.. but the way things are going it is a strong possibility.

53054 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #1485 of 1595 🔗

I don’t see how easily this could be policed given both the shops and police are saying neither of them can enforce masks in shops. Really hoping this doesn’t happen.

53058 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to ambwozere, 1, #1486 of 1595 🔗

Yes. Well it won’t make me wear a mask anyway :-).

53181 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Jonathan Castro, #1487 of 1595 🔗

I will shop where I can get in without being muzzled, and I will let the shop I spend my cash in know why I am supporting them.

53180 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to ambwozere, #1488 of 1595 🔗

Shops can refuse entry. Humberside police have said today they cannot enforce masks in shops.

53000 petgor, replying to petgor, 8, #1489 of 1595 🔗

They’ve done it again! First we were told on 10th June that these nappies would have to be worn on public transport from the 14th June. Now they notify us on the 14th July that that nappies would have to be worn in shops from 24th July. In between these two dates presumably, we will all be safe from the virus. Then there is the ridiculous situation whereby masks are not necessary for cafes, restaurants, pubs and offices.

Unless this is all about the government enjoying the power that it has to rule tens of millions of us poor saps, one can only assume that they are listening to the wrong experts.

53003 ▶▶ Basics, replying to petgor, 1, #1490 of 1595 🔗

Banks are corona-cool too by the way. Good to ‘stay aware’ of this and ‘save lives’ as you do.

53028 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 1, #1491 of 1595 🔗

Blatantly because they don’t want masked people to rob them.

53042 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Basics, 2, #1492 of 1595 🔗

Yes, I think I’ll be having my coffee & sandwiches there from now on!

53064 ▶▶ Ross Hendry, replying to petgor, 2, #1493 of 1595 🔗

They know that people will have to go to shops for food etc., so they’ll put up with the mask.

Pubs, restaurants and cafes aren’t so essential and they know that enforcing masks there would destroy trade.

Health considerations don’t come into it. As DRW says above “ It’s about the politicians trying to extricate themselves from terrible public policy by still keeping up appearances that this virus is still “suuuuuper serious, guys!”

53016 DRW, replying to DRW, 20, #1494 of 1595 🔗

Great comment on this reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/comments/hrro3s/covid_appears_done_in_sweden/

nobody will ever admit they were wrong.

This is at the heart of the mask issue.
Masks are not really about changing the course of the pandemic at this point, it’s about saving face. It’s about the politicians trying to extricate themselves from terrible public policy by still keeping up appearances that this virus is still “suuuuuper serious, guys!”
If they just declare, “Nah, it’s fine, we got it wrong, everything goes back to normal today,” people would be livid that we did this shit at all. They would feel deceived. Masks in July are a way of making people think the initial lockdown in March was justified .

And, I suspect, that the forced mass vaccination will be too.

53025 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to DRW, 10, #1495 of 1595 🔗

Problem is that when no 2nd wave comes they will claim it was due to lockdown and the masks and 100s of thousands would have died without these measures. The other problem is that most will believe them. I dispair for this country and the future for my children if we stay. House on the market and as soon as it sells, we are out of here.

53061 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1496 of 1595 🔗

Exactly. Am telling as many people as possible that all of it is trying to cover up three huge and massively costly errors. 1) Moving elderly frail patients out of hospitals into Care Homes ii) Following nonsense ‘science’ and implementing lockdown and iii) closing schools. Now they want to take the glory for avoiding a ‘second wave’. Scandalous, but at least I know what the bastards are up to.

53239 ▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Chris Hume, #1497 of 1595 🔗

Exactly, the more they scrabble about trying to create the illusion of having “beaten” the disease, the more confident I am that we won’t see a second wave of virus, in this country, in the autumn. That so many countries that locked down hard and early are now experiencing their first wave of covid, exactly as Professor Geisecke said would happen, endorses my confidence.

53092 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1498 of 1595 🔗

Boris will already be gearing up to claim the saving of 120,000 lives by the end of winter…

53029 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 17, #1499 of 1595 🔗

Just as an aside, noticed a lot of new names in the posts. Our community is growing and that makes me happy.

53090 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sarigan, 4, #1500 of 1595 🔗

I’ve noticed the same over the last few days, it’s good to see.

53160 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sarigan, #1501 of 1595 🔗

I subscribe to Conservative Woman and have noted a lot of new posters there too but they seem to be there to insult and criticize anti Covid related articles and comments. Seems too much of a coincidence to be anything other than orchestrated

53032 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 7, #1502 of 1595 🔗

What we desperately need is a “compared to seasonal flu” index.
If masks are required in shops, then what is the risk reduction “compared to seasonal flu”? If patients have been dying in hospitals because of a lack of PPE, then how is the use of PPE “compared to seasonal flu”? If care homes were failing to protect patients, then what is their fatality rate “compared to seasonal flu”?
At the moment, the BBC is trying to blame absolute death rates on the Conservatives. But, if this were true, then presumably all previous governments were responsible for the death rates “from seasonal flu”.

53139 ▶▶ Basics, replying to WhyNow, #1503 of 1595 🔗

Masks will be shifted from covid apparel to flu fashion. In the NewLogic it’s not possible to see flu as anything other than an equal to the covid foe. When the timing is right flu deaths will be pointed too and the rationale issued that it’s very good sense, nod nod, that masks are worn for seasonal influenza. A hunch.

53045 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 3, #1504 of 1595 🔗

https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/comments/hodsek/from_someone_seriously_immunocompromised_dont/

‘From Someone Seriously Immunocompromised – Don’t Stay Home For Me, Please’

53102 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 2, #1505 of 1595 🔗

She certainly calls out the virtue signallers!

53050 DJ Dod, replying to DJ Dod, 16, #1506 of 1595 🔗

For what it’s worth, my view is that the mask edict is a sign of desperation from the Government. I strongly suspect that the initial decision to impose the ‘lockdown’ was taken in order to avoid the negative publicity that images of overwhelmed intensive care stations would have generated – perhaps to ‘save lives’ or ‘protect the NHS’, but principally to protect the Conservative Government from accusations of neglecting the NHS.

The PM must now be acutely aware that he and his Government have destroyed the economy and caused the deaths of thousands of people with their disastrous ‘lockdown’ policy, so t he irrational Government actions that we are currently witnessing are presumably designed to distract us from that fact, and to provide some sort of justification for the original decision.

53068 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to DJ Dod, 1, #1507 of 1595 🔗

Correct

53110 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to DJ Dod, 2, #1508 of 1595 🔗

Yes, exactly! I’ve just been reading a load of articles about the announcment/run up to the announcement and their behaviour (plus Gove’s -unknowing or intentional?- rebellion) and I’m convinced they are karking it.

I also watched the footage of Handjob where someone said ‘he looks like he’s gonna cry’ and my god, he does. He really does. He’s panicking.

I hope this mask march this weekend really shits them up. I hope they crap themselves in their beds. Not scared of covid, oh no. Scared of the people.

53121 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Farinances, 2, #1509 of 1595 🔗

Better the government fears the people than the people fear the government.

53136 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1510 of 1595 🔗

There’s something good in your thought Nick. Governments should always fear the people.

53116 ▶▶ Bella, replying to DJ Dod, 3, #1511 of 1595 🔗

That would hold more water for me if we were the only country insisting on masks, but we’re not, so I see this as coordinated. Following your logic then all these countries are desperate but I just don’t see it. I want to share your view, I really do, but this seems to be measured. Mason Mills (who some reckon is D. Cummings) was posting on Twitter back in the spring that masks would be a good Christmas present this year. This was always part of the strategy I fear. If they relax the mask wearing rule before the end of the summer DJ (say August Bank Holiday) I will stand you a very decent bottle of red. (Or white if you prefer.)

53158 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Bella, 3, #1512 of 1595 🔗

Bella it is coordinated. Have a look at masks4all and masks4all.org.uk. Lobby groups for masks but look at the make up of the groups. The UK group recommends that people don’t go outside unless they have to and when they do, they wear a mask at all times. You really do have to ask what the hell is going on…..

53051 Howie59, 5, #1513 of 1595 🔗

A study on the effectiveness of face masks (cloth vs 2 ply) in operating theatres from 2013.

https://www.ijic.info/article/download/10788/7862/

Skip to page 3 for the results (and the easy to follow graphs).

In summary, after 2 hours of use there were more bacteria than without using a mask at all.

Nothing we didn’t know already but nice to see “the science” agreeing.

53057 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #1514 of 1595 🔗

This is incredible! How about our MPs who’ve mostly been home with their families for the last 4 months, actually show up and set a back-to-work example, never mind jollying off again on summer recess?

Boris Johnson will on Friday tell the nation it is time to get back to work after the Governor of the Bank of England said people’s “fear” of commuting was “holding back the recovery”.
The Prime Minister is concerned that the economy is recovering more slowly than had been hoped after most lockdown restrictions were lifted and wants people to return to their workplaces wherever it is safe to do so.
His worries were echoed by Bank of England Governor Andrew Bailey, who told Tory MPs on Wednesday that he was shocked by deserted city centres such as London’s.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/15/boris-johnson-urge-country-return-work-bank-governor-warns-long/

Civil servants have been told to prepare to get back to their offices to set an example to the rest of the nation after ministers admitted that fewer than 10 people are working in some Whitehall buildings usually occupied by thousands.

How hypocritical!

53060 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #1515 of 1595 🔗

“It’s easier to take people’s freedoms away than to give them back”

No shit, dickhead.

53070 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Farinances, 4, #1516 of 1595 🔗

He’s reminding me more and more of the dormouse in Alice in wonderland.

53192 ▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to matt, #1517 of 1595 🔗

I wish somebody would pour hot tea on his nose and shove him in a teapot.

53072 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1518 of 1595 🔗

“How about our MPs who’ve mostly been home with their families for the last 4 months, actually show up and set a back-to-work example,

You’re expecting leadership from MPs? Where’s that downvote button…

The phrase “do as we say, not as we do,” has never been more fitting than it is for today’s MPs.

53087 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1519 of 1595 🔗

“wherever it is safe to do so”

This is a get-out clause for everyone, surely? How can anyone prove it is safe? The government have spent the last 4 months telling us that the virus is out there stalking the streets and have not changed the message at all so far as I can see, other than telling us that we’re all going to die this winter unless we wear masks.

53099 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, #1520 of 1595 🔗

Mixed messages rule – ok!

53065 ambwozere, 5, #1521 of 1595 🔗

Someone asked earlier for more details about the March in London at the weekend against face masks. It will be in Trafalgar Square. More details on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/LeahButlerSmith/status/1283498075022123013?s=20

53075 Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #1522 of 1595 🔗

Just seen a sycophantic interview with Melinda Gates on News at Ten.They also hinted there will be news about the vaccine on Monday.Mask wearing is all about maintaining the fear of a fast disappearing virus until the vaccine is ready

53129 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1523 of 1595 🔗

Yes it is. 100% correct. It is possible to imagine their plan can fail. Masks are absolute desperation. Can the fear be kept up until the new year? Personally I don’t think it can. Not to say the measures are not here to stay. But attitudes will shift.

3 weeks to flatten the curve. Good to keep in mind when listening to vaccine news.

53142 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 3, #1524 of 1595 🔗

What about the fear mongering manufactured local lockdowns.Another trick in the book

53170 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1525 of 1595 🔗

Yes, yes they have an amoury full of devices. Some we dont yet know.
How about a nice second wave or a wah~fer thin slice of bubontic plague found in China, or…

Can people be feared for long periods. I don’t think so. But then I don’t have physcology models being run in a back room of imperial college, so I can’t possibly know.

53081 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #1526 of 1595 🔗

Well I’m going to follow the advice of Dr Jenny Harries about face masks on Twitter,” its not advisable to wear one unless you have been advised to by a healthcare professional, people tend to leave them on and contaminate the face mask then wipe it over something”.

53122 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #1527 of 1595 🔗

It is mesmerising this comment from Harris. Her performance in the early press conferences was one of back-flipping weasling which one might expect from a chief nurse in a thoroughly political environment. If not actually untruths spoken then the illustion of them to a casual bystander/intended nudge victim.

Yet here now stands her comment of sense. Jenny Harris and the Comment of Sense!

53125 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Basics, #1528 of 1595 🔗

And Boris looks as if he is getting the answers he wants