Last updated2020-07-16T00:11:00



53582 Ian Rons, replying to Ian Rons, 20, #1 of 996 🔗

FYI, good folks, we’ve added some forums to the site, as you’ll see in the top menu. We’ll see how it goes but it’ll hopefully be a little less tangled and messy than navigating the comments here. The topic for this Latest News post is here: https://lockdownsceptics.org/forums/topic/16th-july-2020/

53593 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ian Rons, 3, #2 of 996 🔗

Brilliant, thanks very much for doing this Ian!

53609 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Ian Rons, 1, #3 of 996 🔗

Forgive me for the dumb question, do we need an account/login of some sort to use this forum?

53657 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Poppy, #4 of 996 🔗

Yes, it looks like it

53717 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to Poppy, #5 of 996 🔗

I just logged in with my LDS password

53610 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Ian Rons, 1, #6 of 996 🔗

Thanks Ian, hopefully will make life easier

53875 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Ian Rons, #7 of 996 🔗

Cool I will be there once I get back to me desktop

54153 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ian Rons, 3, #8 of 996 🔗

In theory, it sounds like a good idea to have discrete forums but not so sure about in practice. Essentially there is one theme here: is scepticism towards the official narrative on the response to Covid justified or not? It’s a rapidly changing scene each day as new evidence comes in and as the official line changes. Everything is intimately interconnected eg how T cells work affects one’s view of the herd immunity thesis which in turn affects one’s view of the official position on second spikes and so on. This single comment thread may be somewhat anarchic at times but it meets the demand for open and honest debate that enables people to connect up the related themes.

54183 ▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to OKUK, 3, #9 of 996 🔗

I agree. Even though the volume of posts has been steadily increasing, I still find a single thread with a variety of connected topics much more appealing. There are often a number of wonderfully written posts on subjects that would be quite difficult to categorise and I for one would probably miss them if they were in a topic forum.

I am comfortable knowing that I am never going to read everything posted, but hey, I’m a lockdown sceptic, so am happy to live with the risk.

54197 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Howie59, 1, #10 of 996 🔗

Exactly – we are generally risk-savvy and intelligent folk who can negotiate the rapids!

53201 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 9, #11 of 996 🔗

Huzzah! We’ve got a mention in the Graudian. I’m just off to dunk my head in a vat of hand sanitizer to celebrate.


53211 ▶▶ SanityISstatistical, replying to Mr Dee, 31, #12 of 996 🔗

The “hell” of the situation is entirely the fault of panicked over-reactions, the virus itself is scarcely noticable. If a virus like this had spread to this extent just a few decades ago we’d have not been able to see the casualty counts under all the other causes of death which were common back then. Why do we, upon having made some progress as a society on increasing life expectancy, make those extended lives worthless by wrecking their quality under the draconian weight of insane over-reactions to a cough that any prior generation would have ignored.

53465 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to SanityISstatistical, 9, #13 of 996 🔗

Absolutely correct. I had a ‘debate’ on another site with an individual who asked what the fuss was about wearing a ‘bit of cloth’ on your face for 20 minutes a week if it made others feel better (he stopped short of using the ‘if it saves just one life’ nonsense). He couldn’t see that people didn’t want to wear them because a) why now b) it defies all logic and common sense and c) IT’S BASED ON JUNK SCIENCE. His reply? I’m suffering from ‘Lockdown Derangement Syndrome’. There is just no reasoning with these people

53470 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to T. Prince, 11, #14 of 996 🔗

For me, anyway, the “fuss” is mainly because of the real harm done by wearing a mask, in promoting the fearfulness that is the driving force of this ongoing disaster.

53503 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to T. Prince, 2, #15 of 996 🔗

Is that the same as Future Shock Syndrome ( going Futsie) ? Borag Thung Earthlets. I’m heading off this mad planet…

53539 ▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to T. Prince, 8, #16 of 996 🔗

When I made so bold (on another site) as to suggest that some of us were unhappy with the idea of being compelled to wear masks, and explained why, someone responded by telling me “go and get the disease — the world will be a better place without you.” No, there is no reasoning with ‘believers’.

53777 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Hoppity, 3, #17 of 996 🔗

What kind and caring people. These mask wearers are brimming with compassion for their fellow human beings.

53789 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to T. Prince, 4, #18 of 996 🔗

As someone once said (I paraphrase) : “Think how bright the average person is. Then remember that 50% are even more stupid.”

53893 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, 3, #19 of 996 🔗

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” George Carlin. It has never been more true.

54156 ▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to SanityISstatistical, #20 of 996 🔗

No question of if; it has – three or four times. The country was being led by actual leaders back then…

53213 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #21 of 996 🔗

The little runt ends up gasping for breath with his glasses steamed up so’s he can’t see, but he’s got no problem with face nappies, they’re fine!

53235 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Mr Dee, 12, #22 of 996 🔗

‘I want to be arch and say something about how coronavirus will just ignore mask non-wearers for the next 10 days just to be polite, but realistically more shops will be open by the end of July, so it does make some kind of sense, even if it took us weeks to get here.‘

Is this his justification for the arbitrary 11 day gap between announcement and enforcement? Hilarious! I wouldn’t listed to a word he says.

53247 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #23 of 996 🔗

Jeepers that some weight of thought Joel Golby lugs around with him! He would dunk all his thoughts and head into a vat of handsantiser… I wonder if someone told him to do so and keep it dunked he would. Guardian were reported to be having a bit of a trim of staff shortly. With thoughts as puny as, “This is all awkward for me, because I’ve maintained a long streak of impeccable politics simply by doing and saying the exact opposite of what Toby Young is mad about this week, and him threatening not to vote Tory if they enforce entirely sensible public health policy leaves me in a quandary. I’m not happy about it, but I think that means I’m voting blue at the next election”, it might be right to see Joel’s article as the wrintings from under one setting sun. Emotional trending twaddle is no match for scentific reasoned thought, especially in such dangerous times. Not only barking up a wrong tree, Joel appears to me to be yapping up a preformed flatpack of thought in a Swedish furniture shop.

53251 ▶▶ aiden, replying to Mr Dee, 10, #24 of 996 🔗

A fair article I’d say. By using terms like “mandatory face nappies” and “bed wetters”, we make it easy for people to dismiss the arguments rather than take on board the fact that centralised dictat is an open goal for the law of unintended consequences. We won’t win by name calling.

53275 ▶▶▶ Mario, replying to aiden, 3, #25 of 996 🔗

We won’t win any discussion anyway.

53299 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to aiden, 33, #26 of 996 🔗

I think this is a very important point. I’m uncomfortable with mocking those who have a different opinion on this.

Our side of the debate is weighted with logic, reason and fact. But the other side is swayed by something much more primal – fear. Fear of death, no less. We should not be antagonising those manipulated by the peddlers of this fear – whoever they turn out to be. We should show by example that the Fearful are misled, by struggling to live our lives in the Old Normal and showing them that we do not fear and that we are all safe.

The mutual enemy of us and the Fearful is playing the tried and tested tactics of divide and rule. Mask wearing is a way of turning society against itself, and diverting attention away from the real villains of this story. All of us, masked or unmasked, are on the same side, herded into the same pen. Only together can we eventually break out of our pen and all be free of the Fearmongers.

53307 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Mr Dee, 9, #27 of 996 🔗

It is simply the natural reaction when abuse is being hurled, and no facts are getting through that you sometimes resort to name calling out of despair just to make you feel better, just as they do by preaching so aggressively.

53398 ▶▶▶▶ R G, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #28 of 996 🔗

I agree with this, reason doesn’t work against mortal fear. From quite early on I’ve thought that the lockdown will continue until either the fear or the money runs out, the trouble is that the fear is being perpetuated by the Government.

53434 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nsklent, replying to R G, 10, #29 of 996 🔗

Agree. I was thinking this today, after reading that some customers complained about Tesco relaxing the one way system, instead of being delighted they wanted more restrictions. If these people had something real to worry about, this virus would be put into perspective, but with the magic money tree furloughing many people, their focus is not distracted by fear of losing their house, having no income etc. I wonder if the government had been less generous and the threat of economic meltdown had been properly felt, people would have been demanding an end to the restrictions.

53506 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to R G, 2, #30 of 996 🔗

But the money is running out – and people are starting to notice.

53300 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to aiden, 1, #31 of 996 🔗

I agree Aiden.

53406 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to aiden, 1, #32 of 996 🔗

Cowardice should be called out.

53414 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Bugle, 16, #33 of 996 🔗

It’s not cowardice. It’s indoctrination. The fact that the left always write like immature teenagers (I had a hangover! What a lark!) doesn’t alter the fact that they are basing their decisions on the facts that they believe to be true.
The real blame lies with the media and those who manipulate them. I stopped believing the media when I saw that the goverment was lying about the death toll. I realised that everything was designed to keep us afraid. But if you only look at the BBC and your social media circles then you’re never going to know any of that.

53647 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #34 of 996 🔗

It’s actually government propaganda. People’s autonomy, commonsense and sense of proportion have been harmed by it. They were probably at a disadvantage before all this happened due to health and safety culture, ‘if it saves one life’ arguments, consumerism, materialism and addiction to social media likes.

But – cowardice is unseemly, a moral failure. It is not possible to arrive at this position by calculating risk. It is only possible by contemplation of what is dignified behaviour in the face of danger. Doubtless, people have been tripped up by the ambience they live in and triggered by psychological manipulation, but facing life with courage and fortitude would have provided the necessary defence against this. Being called out could be just the thing that shocks people into sanity.

53937 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bugle, 2, #35 of 996 🔗

You may be right. Many don’t really think that there are actually people who don’t share there BBC news way of thinking. They need to be made aware that other views exist. A few polite words is unlikely to fix their myopic view of the Covid world. Better not to ask me why I am not wearing a mask.

54062 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #36 of 996 🔗

The truly reprehensible cowardice is that shown by our political leaders – first to panic in the face of media and public pressure, rather than doing what they probably believed to be right, then to stick to their story to save their skins when it became clear they had blundered.

They faced difficult decisions at the start, but those are the decisions they sought to have the power to make when they tried for high office. But the decision to admit you were wrong should be easy, if you’ve got any morals.

54055 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bugle, 2, #37 of 996 🔗

“Called out”? A weak Americanism at best. How about “Cowardice should be lambasted”, or something similar?

54102 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Tenchy, 1, #38 of 996 🔗

Don’t prescribe my speech. I love America and I have no problem using its expressions, or anyone else’s.

53732 ▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to aiden, 3, #39 of 996 🔗

A nappy is designed to take / absorb / hold whatever is expelled on to it, so ‘face nappy’ not a bad phrase.
Nappy comes from napkin – something one now uses to wipe ones phizz.
It perfectly apt, whichever way you use it…

53924 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to aiden, 6, #40 of 996 🔗

You seem to be wanting us to roll over to superstitious ignorance and gross stupidity. As Mario rightly hints below, we won’t win any plaudits by talking reasonably with mask wearing zombies, so being nice is not a worthwhile option. This whole mask fiasco is about something far more sinister than just smothering ourselves with a useless bit of cloth. We are now clearly being primed up, so that we clamour for an unnecessary and likely a very dangerous vaccine. The vaccine dangers may well be intentional and of course they will push hard to make it compulsory. We are sailing in uncharted waters.

53263 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mr Dee, #41 of 996 🔗

Well, having read his self congratulatory blurb, he’s obviously misnamed his ‘Brilliant, Brilliant’etc,etc,etc.

Why are Guardian writers so irritating?

The only one I can read without exploding is Larry Elliott

53268 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to wendyk, 5, #42 of 996 🔗

“Why are Guardian writers so irritating?”

It’s a prerequisite of the job

54208 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to matt, 1, #43 of 996 🔗

Because they smug, arrogant and think that they are the guardians of all wisdom.

53281 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to wendyk, 4, #44 of 996 🔗

Simon Jenkins is a surprisingly independent and thoughtful writer at the GroanAid – how he can bear to be in that company is beyond me!

53293 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to IanE, 3, #45 of 996 🔗

Endorse that about Simon Jenkins, he has had some good things to say. Perhaps a little confession on my part – I was a guardian reader. Not I WAS. Now I can’t bear most of it. Once Toby said he needed a new political home and I too feel politically homeless.

53356 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to wendy, #46 of 996 🔗

Same here Wendy, the Grauniad seems now to be mainly opinion peices hastily thrown together. I can recommend the Saturday FT, it is well written contains lots of interesting foreign news that no-one else bothers to cover and the magazine is top rate. Of course it is still MSM, with its own agendas but I really dont want broadsheets to die out totally.

53468 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to DressageRider, 2, #47 of 996 🔗

I want to like the FT, but dip into their comments boards and it has become another guardian-like cesspit of twits who use their choice of newspaper to signal their importance as an “intellectual”. Thoroughly depressing. I suppose they can’t choose their readers, but when their readership is that twisted, their articles will be twisted to match.

53488 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to wendy, 1, #48 of 996 🔗

I was a Guardian reader, but we’re going back nearly twenty years. Been pretty lame for at least the last fifteen.

54209 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bella, #49 of 996 🔗

I subscribed to The Guardian Weekly in Montreal in the 70s and early 80s. Loved it. Used to buy The New Statesmen and New York Review of Books as well. If anyone is looking for lots of great articles and book reviews from the 60s 70s 80s and 90s, The New York Review of Books archives is the place to go. A years subscription is all it takes to access all of them.

53329 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to IanE, #50 of 996 🔗

Yes you’re quite right; I’d overlooked his contributions.

53961 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to wendyk, #51 of 996 🔗

Why read the Guardian ever, or for that matter watch Big Brother Corporation tv?

53310 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #52 of 996 🔗

I looked up where masks are being worn across Europe and Sweden, Denmark, Netherlands have not made face masks mandatory. I consider saying we shouldn’t be having a discussion about face mask wearing another call to close down a discussion. We are trying to raise an issue and a lively discussion should not be belittled and people made to feel like murderers when there are valid reasons for anger over this measure.

53318 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to wendy, 4, #53 of 996 🔗

Well I didnt ask anyone to wear a face mask to save me, so they can do one with their martyr virtue signalling

53590 ▶▶▶ Michel, replying to wendy, #54 of 996 🔗

Neither has France

53324 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Mr Dee, 20, #55 of 996 🔗

If you tell me wearing a mask makes the slow reopening of the high street safer and easier for everyone involved, fine, I’ll put on a mask.

We believe you, Joel. Basically, you’ll think what you’re told to think and do what you’re told to do. Meanwhile Hancock says masks may be with us till next summer.

The alternative is not the slow re-opening of the high street. It’s the immediate re-opening of the high street, and those who are ill stay away until they’re better. In other words, normality.

53330 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Mike Smith, 9, #56 of 996 🔗

hancock wont be there next summer

53366 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #57 of 996 🔗

Let’s hope.

53969 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #58 of 996 🔗

He should be in prison and he can take Johnson with him. They have killed thousands and have decent people’s blood on their hands.

54042 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Rowan, #59 of 996 🔗

Agreed, but never going to happen

53421 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #60 of 996 🔗

This is the thing. Sheep like Joel think it’s either masks or nothing ever goes back,and they fail to grasp at all that we are all quite keen for everything to simply go back immediately, because it’s not necessary to run scared or try and eradicate this.

The questions of: is any of this proportionate? Do we *need* to expend trillions in money and sacrifice life as know it to eradicate this virus?

These don’t seem to be being asked, or answered honestly, if they are being asked.

As for the suggestion name calling is unhelpful, it should be pointed out Joel inaccurately claims there’s no science behind our refusal, which is provably false and either way, it should be on those championing masks to prove conclusively a very definite and justifiable reason for mandating them, which the have spectacularly failed to do.

You don’t win arguments with logic, nor with name calling, once emotion has taken over.

53492 ▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Mark II, 3, #61 of 996 🔗

The thing is, these people cannot be reasoned with using normal measures. They simply are not in control of their minds – fear of death is in control. I am currently having some success with a friend using subtle coercion. You have to slowly nudge people into situations that they would have otherwise avoided, where they realise for themselves that they are actually safe. Hard work though, and manipulating people this way doesn’t feel nice. The ones that own up to being fearful for themselves are easiest to free. The ones who fool themselves into thinking they are saving others through their obedience, are more difficult.

53525 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to TheBluePill, 6, #62 of 996 🔗

Yeah there are a LOT of people lying about wanting to continue with these things to help others. You can pretty much guarantee the vast majority of people are looking out for numero uno, and think if they can convince enough other people to do the same, it helps numero uno again.

The difference between ‘us’ and ‘them’ is honesty… I’m not going to go out of my way and put my life on hold to help others beyond doing things that are reasonable and justified – ie, dont go round coughing on people, sneezing on people, coughing into the open etc – all these things I (and most people) do as a matter of basic courtesy anyway.

Like you say, those who are honest with themselves that they’re just scared for themselves, will most easily come round once they accept the risk is minuscule. The others are pretty much lost causes for ever now, for they can never logically come back down from their high horse without admitting it was nonsense.

54073 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Mark II, 4, #63 of 996 🔗

“once they accept the risk is minuscule”

But there seem to be a lot of people who do NOT want to hear and take on board that the risk is minuscule. If it is minuscule to them, they immediately go into the “you can make a senior sick and cause her death” argument. The “you are for others” argument, where the others are the ones with greater risk.

You can say, “Then they need to be quarantined, not the healthy” until you are blue in the fact, but in the end you are left with the impression that the Panicked ones *enjoy* being panicked and trying to force others to acknowledge that it is *right* to be panicked. Objectively correct (much citing of the CDC, a billion-dollar insitution) and also ethically and morally right.

If you are not panicked and acting like it, you are an immoral, selfish lout. It is this mentality that makes me the most nervous about this whole situation, where it is leading. Too many people are enjoying this fake emergency, for too many neurotic reasons. They seem to enjoy the jolt that hysteria gives them. They feel more *alive*. EEK.

54211 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Mark II, 1, #64 of 996 🔗

There will always be another virus to take its place. This puritanical fearmongering must be curtailed and reversed as soon as possible..

53834 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #65 of 996 🔗

The better alternative would be that a bunch of you get together and ceremonially re-write the magna carta… you can even force Johnson to sign it at sword-point if you’d like.

53673 ▶▶ Lorenzo Basso, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #66 of 996 🔗

“One month ago, going to the beach was fine, but a protest was not.”

This is not an argument I heard from anyone. What planet are these people living on? The beach alarmists were the ones saying the protests were fine. Us sceptical minded folks were criticising the hypocrisy, not the protest itself!

53766 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Lorenzo Basso, 2, #67 of 996 🔗

And now we can point to both and say ‘errr guys, wheres your infamous 2nd surge caused by either of those things?’

54074 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Lorenzo Basso, 2, #68 of 996 🔗

Yes, I thought that was backwards. The protests were fine; it was going to the beach that brought out the scolds.

54212 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lorenzo Basso, 1, #69 of 996 🔗

It is not the police who should be defunded, it is Public Health zealots and all the Quangos that feed them.

54071 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #70 of 996 🔗

I do hope Joel looks in here to see what the reaction is. If so, I want to put him right about this paragraph:

What are you really mad at, here: a small piece of cloth on the front of your face, or the virus that’s kept us all indoors since mid-March? I’d like to eat a flapjack in a cab some time in the next century. Please help me achieve that dream by shutting up about masks and then wearing a mask.

Joel, you’re not stupid. Why can you not see that mask wearing isn’t going to speed up the return to the old normal? It’s just the opposite: mandatory mask wearing is a permanent erosion of your liberties. Remember “three weeks to flatten the curve”? This is the same.

The people you deride who are resisting it are trying to avoid a slide into ‘the new normal’. Has this phrase passed you by? What do you think people mean by it?

You’re never going to be eating flapjack in a cab once it has been established that most cab passengers are willing and keen to wear masks FOREVER . Your only hope is that more perspicacious people than yourself take a stand against it.

53202 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 18, #71 of 996 🔗

Japanese people wear face masks whenever they have a cold or flu, when on the bus / train at work, shopping or in the hospital etc.
They also practice social distancing much more than westerners.
Therefore if facemasks and social distance have the effect the govt keep telling us about, the Japanese flu incidence should be a lot lower.

Wrong – facemasks in the biggest realworld trial over the past decade make the Japanese seasonal flu outbreaks worse than USA / Scandinavia, most of Europe and pretty much level pegging with UK.


53231 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nessimmersion, 11, #72 of 996 🔗

And not only that but face mask wearing in Japan has thrown in a host of psychological problems among the young especially men.

53457 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #73 of 996 🔗

Link, please.

53547 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bruno, 5, #74 of 996 🔗

Articles written pre-2020:

“Mask appeal: The addiction of surgical masks in Japan

…if you stay in Japan long enough, you would realise that the Japanese love affair with the surgical masks goes beyond health and hygiene – to the realm of psychology and even pathology.

While many wear the mask as a defence against allergens, some use it as a cover-up, a shield against social situations that trigger anxiety…..

….for some Japanese, wearing masks has become an addiction.

Mr Yuzo Kikumoto, who set up professional counselling service Kikiwell in 2006, was the first to coin the term “mask dependency” in a paper he wrote in 2009.

People were wearing surgical masks not for the purposes they were intended for, he wrote, but because they had grown used to living behind the anonymity of a mask.

The situation has got even more serious in recent years, Mr Kikumoto told The Straits Times.

The number of mask addicts seeking counselling at his practice has increased by 50 per cent since 2009, he said.

Sufferers are mostly in their 30s to 40s, with women making up slightly more than half of the number , or 60 per cent.

“While some people used to feel safe or secure when going out with a mask, it has reached a stage where they cannot go out without wearing a mask. That’s how serious it is getting,” said Mr Kikumoto, who is a frequent guest on local TV talk shows and news programmes.”

Once the habit has become ingrained, it’s going to be very difficult for some to stop wearing them.

“Japan’s (all‐purpose) ‘safety blanket’?
In the aftermath of the 2011 tsunami the world witnessed the widespread wearing of surgical face masks in Japan, associated with health protection against flu but here employed in the debris against the threat of radiation from the Fukushima reactor. These masks were central to the regional alarm about nuclear risk, as children were made to wear them elsewhere in East Asia amidst concern about nuclear fallout.”


“A psychotherapist explains why you want to wear a face mask — even though it probably won’t help you avoid illness”

53793 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lms23, #75 of 996 🔗

Good on the psychology but, unfortunately, at the end it recommends wearing a mask if you need to ‘reduce anxiety’!

53982 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #76 of 996 🔗

I don’t want to make a fuss about mask wearers, so long as they don’t want me to join in on their stupid fetish. Live and let live.

53205 Alex McLeese, replying to Alex McLeese, 11, #78 of 996 🔗

Re. No deaths for 13th and 14th, Down here in Devon were currently at 13 days and no new Covid-19 deaths and yet nearly everyone is wearing a mask and the disgust that flows forth from them towards the few people like myself who dont is unreal and just a little bit hilarious

53530 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Alex McLeese, 8, #79 of 996 🔗

The whole of London has been in the low single digits for weeks now. Until this fucking mask announcement things *had* been heading back towards a more relaxed experience, tesco was majority unmasked, one way systems were gone, no queues (tho I only go late evening to avoid those anyway), everything in stock at last etc The day after announcement was shopping day, and the % of mask wearers had suddenly jumped considerably, whether that’s because these people had literally been hiding until that point, or a bunch of people who had been feeling more and more safe are now suddenly scared again is unknown, but it feels like a giant step backwards to me – certainly not this claimed step back to normal.

53695 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark II, 2, #80 of 996 🔗


53986 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Mark II, 3, #81 of 996 🔗

A giant step backwards is what was intended.

55333 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark II, 1, #82 of 996 🔗

It’s the ones who have been hiding away, thinking that will ‘save’ them, that are now emerging expecting to see streets littered with corpses wearing their masks and pointing fingers.

53550 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Alex McLeese, 6, #83 of 996 🔗

It’s called Dehumanization. Makes it easier to divide people into us and them.

53985 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Alex McLeese, 2, #84 of 996 🔗

Hardly any bother with masks in the north of England town in which I live.

54057 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Rowan, 3, #85 of 996 🔗

Here in Suffoilk I went to a farm shop (one) and the supermarket (also one). Talked to my neighbour (over 80) and she is convinced they are a good thing, but then she believes everything she sees on the BBC. I’ve tried to convice her that she won’t instantly die if she goes out, that there have only been eight cases here, that it’s dying out all over the country and hardly anyone is dying of it (if they ever did) but it fails to sink in.

Met yet another person who had the same covid-like illness (flu-like symptoms and prolonged cough) back in December. We far far outnumber the folks that actually had diagnosed covid and I gather that is true for many other parts of the country, including Devon (see above)

53209 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 6, #86 of 996 🔗

The Premier of Quebec, Canada, announced two days ago that he and his team were working on changing our habits and that the exercise would continue for a long time to come.

53214 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 7, #87 of 996 🔗

God help you. Or, if the québecois have any backbone, God help him.

53987 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, 1, #88 of 996 🔗

They have had their backbones removed like most westerners.

54738 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 1, #89 of 996 🔗

This past month I have been sitting on a wall just beside the state run liquor store, reading books on jazz, listening to DJ loops and Space music on a cellphone, watching the wheels go by (miss you John) and observing. After almost four months of lockdown some people still swerve as far away from me as possible when they pass by and most of them are wearing masks. I started wearing a mask yesterday because it takes about 35 minutes to walk to the street that I love the most, Saint Lawrence Boulevard. Now I just wait at the bus stop near my building, flag a bus, then get on at the rear door. There is no one to check your pass because the ticket validation police have been banned since April. Free transport! Otherwise I can’t stand masks. I cover my nose when the bus arrives, then lower it once I’m on the bus. After about thirty seconds the act of breathing becomes labored and uncomfortable. Recently an automated female voice has been included as part of our transport experience. The voice repeatedly tells us every few minutes to put on our masks. I mutter fuck off inside my mask, loud enough to be heard but not loud enough for anyone to identify who said it. And along some streets there are signs declaring that some makeshift passageways are active sanitation corridors , or some such baloney.

Our Premier held a news conference just three days ago and said that the government was in the process of changing our habits and that they weren’t done yet. So, that tells you what an authoritarian prick he is and how much backbone the Quebecois have. Very little. When this same idiot Premier told us last year that collective rights were more valuable than individual rights I knew we were in trouble. This government is behaving more and more like Communist East Germany. I, and thousands, perhaps millions of Quebecers, received messages from this government last month urging me/us to snitch on people. With guaranteed anonymity. I got one in English and one in French. Someone in my building who didn’t like me must have have decided that it was a good time to snitch on one of his/her neighbors. Me. Near the end of April I received an official, badly written letter in English from my HLM administration accusing me of letting strangers in my building all day and all night, thus endangering the lives of all the residents living here, including myself. The following day I heard a knock on my door. The guy who wrote the letter (wearing a mask) and a Policewoman (not wearing a mask) greeted me when I opened it and repeated the same accusation to my face. I stood my ground and asked them for concrete proofs of my wrongdoing, like time of day, date, what was I wearing, etc. They didn’t have any proof whatsoever. Tsk, tsk. But that doesn’t matter because they live in a bizarro world where everybody is guilty until they can prove their innocence: Orwell and Kafka rolled into one. Our New Normal.

53210 SanityISstatistical, replying to SanityISstatistical, 3, #90 of 996 🔗

“Sanity is not statistical.” For all his sense much of the time I have to disagree with Orwell on that. Sane behavour is that which is backed up by statistics. Right now, and ever since it started spreading actually, the statistics, the real ones not the made up numbers coming from models, show covid is not worth worrying about. The real world is a messy place, common sense sometimes fails, complex models with braindead assumptions often fail, idelogically based “it must be the case” statements are almost always wrong… but stats by the very nature that they are observed data and hence as close as feasibly possible to being always right. Sanity is very much statistical, and the stats say lockdown hurts more than covid, so the sane thing is, and always has been, defiance.

53599 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to SanityISstatistical, 1, #91 of 996 🔗

I think he had government statistics in mind.My admiration for Orwell has grown in this crisis.Not just a writer but a prophet.

53215 annie, replying to annie, 13, #92 of 996 🔗

I can feel it in my bones that Archpishop Jellybaby is about to pronounce that face nappies are a Christian duty.
The C of E has already become a temple of the evil Covid counter-religion.
Reminds me of The Last Battle, where the Ape tries to conflate Aslan and Tash and ends up being eaten by the latter. I hope Jellybaby disagrees with Tash.

53223 ▶▶ charlotte reynolds, replying to annie, 4, #93 of 996 🔗

I’m so disappointed in the CofE. As a reasonably regular worshipper I’ve not attended Zoom once since this all started. They’ve become unconscionably politicised. My faith is really being tested.

53350 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to charlotte reynolds, 2, #94 of 996 🔗

Zoom simply does not work for me, I wondered if I was alone. Church meens a communion of people.
I know the archbishops are political appointments, but I dont see why he has to tow the line and follow every bandwagon.

53811 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to James007, 5, #95 of 996 🔗

I have the same problem with Zoom. I stopped joining in Zoom Pilates because it felt alienating. Also, isn’t it interesting that any concern for the pupils’ safety, normally pursued obsessively in community settings, seems to have evaporated online? The tutor can only see postage-sized images of the class so people could actually be damaging themselves by doing exercises wrongly but it doesn’t seem to matter.

As for church, I (used to) play the organ at a dissenting chapel. The minister does on-line services and wanted me to record a couple of hymns for him. I have decided that I just can’t be part of it. As I keep saying, I don’t belong in the New Normal.

The churches’ pathetic attitude is just one of many disillusionments for me. Jesus apparently touched lepers but many Christians haven’t even got the courage to speak out against this. That said, ‘traditional’ congregations are mostly elderly, middle-class and terrified. Many of them really have been in self-isolation for months. Anyway, I don’t see change coming any time soon

I can offer a couple of rays of hope Two of my husband’s brothers are evengelicals. One is a lockdown zealot but the other has become full-on sceptic, he gets the politics and everything and writes sublime ripostes to his zeolot twin brother.

Yesterday, I published a link to Rob Slane’s blog. I don’t go along with his particular brand of Christianity but he’s right on the money when it comes to the politics of the current situation:


54155 ▶▶▶▶▶ anti_corruption_tsar, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #96 of 996 🔗

I agree with every word that you’ve said. The state is effectively behaving in a Stalinistic way effectively outlawing communal forms of worship. It’s a well known fact that church goers have a higher life expectancy relative to society. And the fact that the CoE has been so spineless is yet another failed institution. I argued long before the lockdown that the CoE should disassociate from the state. I won’t be going back until that happens.

53260 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to annie, 4, #97 of 996 🔗

Which confirms my atheism.

53285 ▶▶ IanE, replying to annie, 3, #98 of 996 🔗

It’s alright, God doesn’t believe in Rowan!

53317 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to IanE, #99 of 996 🔗

He;s a globalist infiltrator, in all walks of establishment worldwide

53990 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to IanE, #100 of 996 🔗

Not so.

53286 ▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 2, #101 of 996 🔗

The Christian leadership have been unexpressibly lacking throughout haven’t they. Entirely missing from the national discussion when solace and comfort and compsssion are in short supply. Without exaggerstion the Christain leadership have been shameful. I believe manyChristains and other religious people have been magical in their care for others. Christian leaders, no.

53658 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to annie, 1, #102 of 996 🔗

Love your reference to The Last Battle , Annie – I’ve often thought that the great majority of the population are like the dwarfs after they’ve been chucked into the stable. They have convinced themselves so much that they know what is real, that they can’t see the beautiful world around them. This whole mad episode is summed up for me by the words “ The dwarfs are for the dwarfs “. We’ve no choice but to leave them to it.

53217 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 13, #103 of 996 🔗
53218 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 7, #104 of 996 🔗

Save lives! Stop the spread!

53236 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 5, #105 of 996 🔗

Nipping out for a pint of milk there Wendyk?

53244 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 6, #106 of 996 🔗

looks like she’s off for a haircut I’d say

53258 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to anon, 5, #107 of 996 🔗

I was hoping I might finally get an appointment with my dentist; thought this might do it!

53255 ▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 3, #108 of 996 🔗

Just got to find an extension for the breathing apparatus!!

53279 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 4, #109 of 996 🔗

…and hope no one stands on your tube! It’s a risky business a trim and a pop out to shop.

53328 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 2, #110 of 996 🔗

Indeed! I’m planning on doing another bare-faced-boogy later on so wish me luck!!

Had to remove the hazard protection suit:worried that it might not qualify for insurance pay out !

53349 ▶▶ mjr, replying to wendyk, 11, #111 of 996 🔗

My option for being safe …… comment image

53220 wendyk, #112 of 996 🔗
53221 james, replying to james, 6, #113 of 996 🔗

I touched on this in the comments earlier in the week. Silver lining being that cracks are starting to show in the party. Gove on Marr then the other MP disagreeing in parliament this week. The only thing that makes me smile on the news now are redundancies and political missteps. Chickens coming home to roost thank God for self employment – not had a penny of this funny money and do my want it either!

53225 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to james, 17, #114 of 996 🔗

My local MP who I’m not going to name as correspondence between us is confidential agrees that masking in shops is wrong. Disappointing that he has not gone public but I bet he is not the only one.

53290 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to arfurmo, 10, #115 of 996 🔗

Such a lot of wimps in parliament now!

53813 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to arfurmo, #116 of 996 🔗


53289 ▶▶ IanE, replying to james, 4, #117 of 996 🔗

No, you have not had a penny – but you can be certain you will be amongst those who have to pay for it going forward!

53222 charlotte reynolds, replying to charlotte reynolds, 29, #118 of 996 🔗

Hi Toby, re the cutting up of cards. My husband emailed his local party to cancel and got a desperate call back the same day begging him to stay part of the part and inviting him to all kinds of groups etc. Apparently the guy he spoke to (off the record) agreed that it was a step too far and said he was getting a lot of angry people calling…

53412 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to charlotte reynolds, 9, #119 of 996 🔗

Never back down.

53224 Danny, replying to Danny, 16, #120 of 996 🔗

Whilst I completely accept that a huge percentage of the population will be silently against muzzling, the fact that shops can refuse you entry sans mask is the problem.
It is the conflict on the door.
We can quote whatever human rights violations or even exemptions we like, but if the kid on the door at your local Tesco is adamant, then we don’t get entry.
That is why this is so dangerous in my opinion as it could well become normalised.
I am in the situation whereby I cannot afford £100 fines (no matter how unlikely) have no exemption other than self diagnosing extreme distress which runs contrary to all of my morals, but will not wear a mask.
If I go shopping with my young daughter, wearing a mask would either act as a constant reminder of the fragility of life and that everything she sees is a killer, or that her Dad will cave to something repellent just because everyone else does.
Neither of those are life lessons I am prepared to give.
But on the other hand, I am also not prepared to just give up and never leave the house again.
I was happy that shops reopened and determined to give them my business to help support the high street. I cannot afford and do not want to switch to online shopping as a form of protest.

53451 ▶▶ DownWithBedwetters, replying to Danny, 3, #121 of 996 🔗

I’m not sure that they can refuse you entry if you have a medical excemption.

I’m going to be using one of the “I’m exempt” cards. What are they going to do? Ask to see a doctor’s certificate? I’m pretty sure that would be illegal.

53540 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to DownWithBedwetters, 1, #122 of 996 🔗

Unfortunately, any shop can refuse entry to anyone on pretty much any grounds (as long as they’re not insisting you do something illegal). You can challenge them on it, but it’s not an instant process – the security guard can quite literally just chuck you out, it is private property after all.

They could dictate that everyone must enter the building by hopping three times if they wanted, it’d be equally daft, but they could (I think)

53574 ▶▶▶▶ Andy C, replying to Mark II, 8, #123 of 996 🔗

They can’t refuse to do business with you on grounds of what might be considered a ‘protected’ characteristic, such as a disability. That would be within the realms of discrimination.

53835 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Andy C, 1, #124 of 996 🔗

Indeed, but my point is to win that would require a post-event challenge and taking them to task. Given that the security body on the door, or the poor sap stood there trying to turn people away, will be unaware of the actual law and think their job depends on not letting unmasked people in, they will likely stand their ground and kick you out – regardless of who is correct from a legal stand point.

53691 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Danny, 4, #125 of 996 🔗

Stay calm, tell them you are exempt in terms of the ‘law’ on masks – can’t see how they could issue you a fine.

Read yesterday’s comments on the facts and how to.

53226 Hoppity, 6, #126 of 996 🔗

People were asking yesterday about GPs providing mask ‘exemption certificates’. Wonder if anyone saw this yesterday:


GPs fielding large number of questions about face masks in shops

GPs have been inundated with questions from patients about the new requirement to wear a face covering in shops in England from next week.
Several GPs have said that they have been approached by patients asking for exemption letters but the Department of Health and Social Care has told Pulse people will not need GP notes.
A number of people are exempt from the requirement which comes in from 24 July due to age, health or equality reasons.
Fines of £100 can be issued to those who flout the rules but the Department of Health and Social Care told Pulse that people who are exempt will not require a GP note to prove their case.
Government guidance on the new regulations urged people to ‘please be mindful and respectful of such circumstances noting that some people are less able to wear face coverings’.
In England the public must already wear face masks on public transport and in hospitals, although it is still only advisory for patients visiting GP practices.
The Department for Transport previously told Pulse people would not need a GP note if they were exempt from wearing a face covering on public transport.

Also, I noticed this morning that there were a couple of comments under the other ‘Pulse’ article (about masks on public transport) I referred to yesterday:

by all means pop along to your local friendly gp to get a “ganfyd” note to say you don’t need to do what everyone else has to.

but be aware this is NOT nhs work. it is PRIVATE work, which must be done outside nhs time, and must be PAID FOR.

no extra monee – no extra workee !

can some one tell the general public not to ask us for exemption notes on all media and online channels – easy to do.

53227 Hoppity, replying to Hoppity, #127 of 996 🔗

“! Awaiting for approval”? First time that’s popped up.

53228 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Hoppity, #128 of 996 🔗

It sometimes happen especially if you’re putting several links.

53274 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Bart Simpson, #129 of 996 🔗

Oh. I can see, now, that a couple of names are linked, and (cripes!) the links work. Completely unintentional on my part. Normally, whenever I get as far as ‘Pulse’, it only ever lets me look at the first page. Can’t normally travel any further than that. Why it would be behaving differently on this occasion I don’t know. I’ve just tried editing the comment, but it won’t let me! Trying again…

53284 ▶▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Hoppity, 3, #130 of 996 🔗

Still no joy, so here’s the bit I was keen to post, as I thought it might be helpful to some:

People were asking yesterday about GPs providing mask ‘exemption certificates’. Wonder if anyone saw this yesterday in ‘Pulse’:

GPs fielding large number of questions about face masks in shops
GPs have been inundated with questions from patients about the new requirement to wear a face covering in shops in England from next week.
Several GPs have said that they have been approached by patients asking for exemption letters but the Department of Health and Social Care has told Pulse people will not need GP notes.
A number of people are exempt from the requirement which comes in from 24 July due to age, health or equality reasons.
Fines of £100 can be issued to those who flout the rules but the Department of Health and Social Care told Pulse that people who are exempt will not require a GP note to prove their case.
Government guidance on the new regulations urged people to ‘please be mindful and respectful of such circumstances noting that some people are less able to wear face coverings’…

53229 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 27, #131 of 996 🔗

I hope it will be Boris’ Poll Tax moment. But have Tory MPs got any balls? Give evidently knows this is a mistake and could take over and do a better job.

Boris looks unstable and unreliable and I think his huge changes of direction will probably be repeated during Brexit and on other matters too. I don’t trust him an inch.

53233 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to FrankiiB, 18, #132 of 996 🔗

Johnson is standing on a cliff edge. He was still polling at 39% in favour of him on YouGov in May. I’d be surprised if it was even half that percentage now. And to think I helped to vote him into office …. mea culpa!

53237 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #133 of 996 🔗

Sadly suspect if he is replaced it won’t be with anyone more sceptical than him, in fact probably the opposite.

53241 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Julian, 2, #134 of 996 🔗

If Gove has more say, and his views on masks from the Marr show, we might get more sense

53245 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Dan Clarke, 26, #135 of 996 🔗

Gove has gone along with all of this shit so far. I suppose he may be mildly better than the PM, but they are all damned in my eyes.

If the PM is replaced, it will be over failures in execution like not locking down early enough, or not providing enough welfare, or maybe care homes. Care homes was a scandal, but it’s all just a distraction from the Big Lie that the virus was/is a major threat. We’re a million miles away from getting that message through to anything like enough people to make it have any weight.

53272 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Julian, 5, #136 of 996 🔗

Talking to relatives in NZ, they are locked down as a country, can’t travel and some media are reporting that people are getting restless they want to travel but hear about Europe and muzzles and dont want any of that. So the conclusion is that the majority are against but the loud mouths are using propaganda, as they did in the war, to say they are winning

53423 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #137 of 996 🔗

An awful lot of exceedingly rich people have moved to New Zealand lately. Any connection?

54191 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bugle, 1, #138 of 996 🔗

It’s all about the coming war, says my son, who lives there and builds bunkers for the incoming super rich.

53368 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Julian, 1, #139 of 996 🔗

Sadly, I think you’re correct.

Over the last 20 or 30 years or so (as long as I’ve been paying attention to politics) we never learn the right lessons. The first one being, the government is wrong about everything.

53240 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to CarrieAH, 14, #140 of 996 🔗

He needs to think carefully about why he’s on the cliff edge, if it is his poll tax moment, he should do what Thatcher did and reverse, quickly. The bubble they live in is giving him the wrong message, if he thinks that people will go out more with a mask he is very much mistaken, rather the opposite.

53420 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #141 of 996 🔗

Moi aussi, but if you catch the wrong train it’s best to get off at the next station.

53736 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to CarrieAH, #142 of 996 🔗

YouGov he may have been 70% then.

53242 ▶▶ Julian, replying to FrankiiB, 23, #143 of 996 🔗

Doubt it will be a poll tax moment. There’s no movement with any profile around which mask opposition can coalesce.

A friend’s son is going to Uni at UCL in September – just checked and masks will be mandatory on campus when loving around, though optional at “workstations” as long as distancing is feasible. Suspect most/all Unis will be the same.

The thing to emphasise to people is that THIS WILL NOT END unless public opinion changes. They will be wearing masks everywhere, forever. A lot of people still think the “pandemic” is going to end, because, well, it must. It’s still an extended “flatten the curve” or “beat the virus” to them. Before they get used to it even more, drum it into people that there is no exit from this unless we make it.

53243 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Julian, 10, #144 of 996 🔗

Why do they want everyone in a mask, are they just weirdo’s running the show now

53249 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Dan Clarke, 24, #145 of 996 🔗

To perpetuate the fear and the coronamyth, and to be able to pretend that when no second wave comes, it was the government that protected us from it with its wise policies. If you are a politician you want power, and keeping the population in a state of fear gives you almost absolute power. Not weird at all – just human nature.

53264 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Julian, 4, #146 of 996 🔗

Well it is still weird, most humans in open societies wouldn’t think of covering up a face. Wonder what the men of a certain religion think of having to copy their wives into subservience

53425 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Julian, 4, #147 of 996 🔗

Not weird, but wicked.

53558 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Julian, 6, #148 of 996 🔗

Or to make us all so fearful or fed up that we’ll accept any new vaccine as the price of our freedom, regardless of side effects and nanoparticle monitoring.

54193 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lms23, 1, #149 of 996 🔗

You of course, have given the right answer, The UK government has been in bed with Bill Gates since day one, if not longer.

53505 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #150 of 996 🔗

One word: ‘control’. Twas ever thus.

54195 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bella, 2, #151 of 996 🔗

Two words ‘control’ and ‘vaccines’ and exceedingly dodgy vaccines at that.

53252 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, 27, #152 of 996 🔗

How very, very depressing. I feel for the young of today, I really do.

I’m so glad I was young donkey’s years ago: no internet; no mobile phones; cars that you could fill for a fiver and … lots and lots of laughter. Not much of that around now.

53254 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to kh1485, 13, #153 of 996 🔗

Indeed. I feel for the young, and the old, who value freedom, reason, and who know what it is to be truly alive, and to face life as adults rather than overgrown children.

53262 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, 38, #154 of 996 🔗

Yes, I feel for the old too. The look of bewilderment I have witnessed so many times recently on their faces is heartbreaking.

One lady I spoke to said she felt as though she had been “freed from prison” And another elderly chap who couldn’t understand why the hospital he goes to – for some sort of regular procedure – were no longer providing tea and biscuits and magazines to read. He came in yesterday (he makes me smile because he is never without his woolly hat even when it’s baking hot) and he asked if he was allowed to sit inside. Again, I told him he could do whatever he liked.

I hate, hate, hate what these bastards have done.

53266 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to kh1485, 2, #155 of 996 🔗

And in the world population its a handful of these bastards, how

53565 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to kh1485, #156 of 996 🔗

On the upside I guess we wont have to see those bewildered looks soon to get annoyed about as we simply wont be able to see anyones expressions. Yay :/

54072 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to kh1485, 1, #157 of 996 🔗


Some of the old folks here have been out walking their dogs all througout the lockdown, but there’s a LOT of paranoia among some of the others, quite unneccesarily considering the lack of actual cases.

In a way I feel lucky, due to the incompetence of many (but not all) doctors in my past I am going to be dead soon and frankly i am looking forward to the “merciful release” from this complete and total fuck-up which I don’t see ending any time soon, or ever

53292 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 9, #158 of 996 🔗

Agree with you. I recently told Mr Bart that its good we don’t have children as we’ve been committing a crime against humanity by bringing a child into this crazy world with all its attendant insanity.

53271 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Julian, 17, #159 of 996 🔗

Agree, I’ve said this to a few people who have rolled their eyes. People need to think long and hard about it as wearing masks could and possibly will be with us forever. Those people who have buried their head in the sand or who are gross virtue signallers need to look ahead to this time next year and be prepared to wear a mask to the shops, sporting events, family weddings, parties, christenings, Barbours, hair dressers etc.

This isn’t a jolly jape or a big brother task. Much like dogs they are for life and not for Xmas.

It is a virus that will not go away but like every day of our former lives we have a natural immune system that is pretty smart and adaptable, we will be perfectly safe.

54198 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to stefarm, 2, #160 of 996 🔗

The virus, such as it was, has actually now gone well away. We now need Boris and his set of crazies to do the same thing.

53295 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 6, #161 of 996 🔗

He he – I like the idea of ‘loving around’ at University (though the masks would be an impedance)!

53320 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Julian, 5, #162 of 996 🔗

‘loving around’? More than face covering needed! 😃

53374 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Julian, 2, #163 of 996 🔗

Mandatory when “loving around?” I would think that would be quite difficult. Poor students.

53549 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to FrankiiB, 5, #164 of 996 🔗

I hope it will be too, but then I never voted for the bellend in the first place. At the same time, I think you’re overestimating Gove somewhat. I’m not sure there’s a single person across any of the parties I’d want running the country right now, given that not a single politician has actually had the decency to stand up, strongly, for our freedoms and rights throughout this. That’s 650 of them, silently letting us become an authoritarian state.

53230 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 12, #165 of 996 🔗

Facemask flim flam to distract from the manslaughter of 20,000 in the care homes

53232 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Cecil B, 4, #166 of 996 🔗

There’s certainly a lot being hidden behind the scenes. Whenever something to stir up the masses happens, the bigger picture is in the background somewhere. They have to keep this going for longer because the World Financial Reset isn’t finished perhaps? In the U.K. they’ve poured money into the system, into peoples’ pockets via huge furlough schemes etc and now need them back out to spend it.

54199 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, #167 of 996 🔗

Yes, the UK government has much blood on its hands.

53234 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #168 of 996 🔗

New Jargon alert: “Pause Shielding”. Not ‘stop’ or ‘end’ but “pause”.

Not accidental. Nudge psychologists have been at work.

53248 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 4, #169 of 996 🔗

Yes, well spotted. Drum it into the lockdown/mask zealots/lazy neutrals – this is FOREVER. Are they happy with that?

53256 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 1, #170 of 996 🔗

I see ‘pause’ everywhere now; whatever happened to suspend or stop?

53276 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 2, #171 of 996 🔗

You harsh lover of abruptness and clarity wendyk! Stop! I fancy ‘pause’ on this occaision is to give the flavour that ‘play’ will be pressed and lockup will be once again clamped down around us.

53379 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Basics, 4, #172 of 996 🔗

It still amazes me when I walk around that I don’t see strings attached from most other people’s hands going up into the sky. I never thought people could be this transparently manipulated.

53561 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Basics, 2, #173 of 996 🔗

Like “reimagining the police” coming from the Democrats in America.

53594 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lms23, 1, #174 of 996 🔗

Reimagining anything. Yes. Scotland home of heather, broth and haggis is full of social engineers reimagining this and that. Purile, elitest and controlling language. Elitest in the sense that the public cannot know what is meant by the ambiguous phrase without indoctrinisation into that particular meaning – which can then be easily shifted from as required.

54200 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Basics, 1, #175 of 996 🔗

Sturgeon, like Boris needs to be charged with murder.

54206 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Basics, 2, #176 of 996 🔗

Here is the creepy summary of the Great Reset, which is what this is all really about:

The context The Covid-19 crisis, and the political, economic and social disruptions it has caused, is fundamentally changing the traditional context for decision-making. The inconsistencies, inadequacies and contradictions of multiple systems –from health and financial to energy and education – are more exposed than ever amidst a global context of concern for lives, livelihoods and the planet. **Leaders** [??] find themselves at a historic crossroads, managing short-term pressures against medium- and long-term uncertainties.

The opportunity As we enter a unique window of opportunity to shape the recovery, this initiative will offer insights to help inform all those determining the future state of global relations, the direction of national economies, the priorities of societies, the nature of business models and the management of a global commons. Drawing from the vision and vast expertise of **leaders** [??? ] across the Forum’s **communities** [???], the Great Reset initiative has a set of dimensions to build a new social contract that honours the dignity of every human being.

Right. This is total boilerplate BS from self-appointed dictators such as Klaus Schwab (founder of the WEF).
No mention of . . . um, democracy here!!!
It’s almost as if they had planned it . . .
THIS IS TOTALLY CREEPY. The sheeple meekly put on their masks and don’t realize it is tantamount to the Hitlergruss. Signals their willingness to go along with anything.

53238 Bart Simpson, 4, #177 of 996 🔗

The caption competition made me laugh, thanks for the replies – will keep them in mind for when I travel.

53246 TJN, 28, #178 of 996 🔗

Great Sceptics page by Toby today. At some points I was almost crying with laughter; at others I was almost crying from anger.

There’s no way I had the time to read all the 1500+ comments from yesterday, so seeing some of the highlights here was great.

Goes to show that it would be possible to write a Sceptics page from readers’ comments alone. Some great wits on here. And some astute and informed commentators.

Without doubt, I’d say the Sceptics are winning the humour battle. And humour is a powerful weapon.

53257 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 6, #179 of 996 🔗

I saw this in a comments section on the Off Guardian site. It is a recent letter sent by a GP practice to all patients. It is reassuring to see that the reception staff will “care navigate” (WTF!) you to the appropriate service. The tenor of the document is that we are still in the middle of a public health crisis and that you will only be allowed into the surgery (“health care facility”) under sufferance and in exceptional circumstances. Good to know that the main doors will be open to patients invited to attend from 20th July. Patients will be grateful that at least they can get in to the surgery if invited!

As you may be aware, the two Ledbury Practices are merging in just a couple of weeks’ time, but have already been sharing premises for a few months now, so the following guidance is for patients of both practices.

As part of our restoration measures, St Katherine’s Surgery premises will open the main doors again with effect from Monday 20th July 2020 for patients who have been invited to attend a face to face appointment with a clinician. The waiting room has been adjusted to ensure that social distancing measures are in place. Following guidance from NHS England, all patients entering the premises are to wear a suitable face covering whilst in the practice.

Do NOT come into the surgery unless you have a confirmed appointment; please continue to leave prescriptions and specimens in the lobby and telephone the surgery for advice and guidance in the first instance.

NHS England guidance is clear that all patients must continue to be assessed by telephone or video link and only be invited to the surgery for an appointment if clinically necessary. Our Reception Team have been trained appropriately to care navigate you to the most suitable clinician or external service depending on your condition, and this may be someone other than a GP (for example a Health Care Assistant, Pharmacist etc).

Finally, we have noticed a significant increase with patients being discourteous to our reception staff, particularly if they cannot facilitate an “on the day” appointment with a GP. Rudeness, verbal aggression and name calling will not be tolerated and any patients displaying this behavior are at risk of being removed from the practice list.
Thank you all for your understanding and co-operation in these difficult times.

53273 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 5, #180 of 996 🔗

‘Care navigate’ is particularly ugly isn’t it. Beware the NLP in the person who writes it, is my opinion.

53376 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 2, #181 of 996 🔗

It’s just wank English.

53410 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #182 of 996 🔗

It’s got a comittee behind it. Not in the GPs surgery.

53385 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Basics, 1, #183 of 996 🔗

George Carlin’s comments on PC language spring to mind. I’m not even sure what that is supposed to mean. I get the feeling that the automaton that wrote this particular piece may have thought it sounded overly harsh and needed a nice word in there and just randomly insertered. Obviously “navigate with care” actually has meaning but makes no sense in this context.

It’s probably easier to agree with Sam, below, and not overthink it.

53429 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #184 of 996 🔗

The NLP bit comes in with the brain that writes the words unquestioningly. I do not mean to say the phrase itself radiates hypnosis among us.

As we all known he NHS is choc-full of like terminology. The campaign for clear English might have a heart attack should it ever look at the NHS. There are managers who make it their business to put in this tagged, framed way of thinking.

It is minor and not of significance to the grand scheme of things. Yet there we are, a puke phrase that may introduce anxiety in a care setting.

This is a public notice. ‘Navigate’ conjures up stress levels in many. “I’m not good at maps”, say a sadly large number of people. It is not appropriate for the situation.

54039 ▶▶▶▶▶ fiery, replying to Basics, 1, #185 of 996 🔗

Yes the NHS is certainly full of ridiculous terminology like this and nursing text books contain the most stupid of phrases although most nurses I’ve met are barely literate anyway and far too stupid to notice.

53663 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #186 of 996 🔗

How about ‘show you to your place/room’?

53669 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bella, 1, #187 of 996 🔗

Accurate, precise, succinct and simple. I remember when life used to be a little like that…

54079 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Gillian, 1, #188 of 996 🔗

We had this shit imposed on our “health centre” with non-medically qualified receptionists used to triage patients and keep them away from the doctors at all costs.

Eventually they reneged and started treating patients with less contempt but then most of the doctors left en masse. Before she went mine complained bitterly about “Big Brother”, she even showed me an example – when she requested an HbA1c the computer asked “is patient diabetic?” and if she typed no it said “test denied!” So an accounting clerk trumps a doctor.

55334 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Gillian, #189 of 996 🔗

My GP Surgery sent out texts telling us that winter flu jabs (Sept + October) would take place in The (trading estate) Centre, it’s actually the cattle market, nice!

53259 alw, replying to alw, 24, #190 of 996 🔗

I live in London and received an email from John Lewis yesterday telling me they were opening their Oxford Street branch where I used to regularly shop, as from today. They asked for comments and I replied that I would not be shopping there until they stopped complying with the nonsensical government strictures which are unenforceable and merely guidance. I sent them the relevant guidance link. I made clear that whilst these rules for shopping with them which they are in perfectly entitled to have are place I will not be shopping with them for the forceable future particularly as one cannot try on clothes and it was not environmentally friendly to make two journeys when one would suffice. Also pointed out that since the bulk of our Christmas shopping is done there we will no longer be patronising them if this nonsense remains in place. Questioned why if other stores will not be in forcing the wearing of facemasks why they are not following suit. Said given their financial difficulties they should have a long hard think if they want to attract customers. Suggest others should write in the same vein.


53294 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to alw, 5, #191 of 996 🔗

I received the same email but deleted it. Will try to fish it out and tell them I will be boycotting them as well.

53696 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to alw, 1, #192 of 996 🔗

Well done! Same here.

53261 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #193 of 996 🔗

Shout out to

Went to the Waitrose near my work for the first time in 4 months – again didn’t have any issues. Apart from the hand sanitiser on the door and the obligatory poster, it was pretty much like the last time I was there back in March.

Then I went to pay and found that every other self service till was blocked off to facilitate antisocial distancing.

It will be interesting to see how it will change again with the muzzle rule. I read somewhere that the other big supermarkets won’t be enforcing it but with Waitrose does anyone know?

53265 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #194 of 996 🔗

Thanks Bart, glad your experience was better than mine (though no door-step hand gel here).

I think someone posted yesterday that Waitrose would be enforcing masks for both customers and staff.

53267 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 9, #195 of 996 🔗

If that’s the case then it will be a boycott for me. I’ll have to check with M&S as well but I read someone on Twitter that someone had contacted their head office and apparently they’re not enforcing it either.

Not surprising given their CEO has called out Hancock on his dodgy stats re shop workers and the virus.

53277 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #196 of 996 🔗

While that’s good news, I’m gearing myself up for being confronted by some zealot customer accusing me of being a “granny killer” for not wearing a mask.

Although I hear a lot of lockdown-scepticism (or should it now be called ‘Mask-scepticism’?), it’s of a very quiet nature, let’s say very ‘English’. I wish the dissenters were a bit more forthright and bolshy!

53287 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 11, #197 of 996 🔗

I’ve not been confronted about not wearing a muzzle but someone butted into a remonstration I had with a Nando’s employee after I told him that I do not wish to download an app, place and order and pay via said app. The tosser told me that there’s a global pandemic.

I retorted that only 0.000000000004 per cent of the global population had it so it hardly qualified as a pandemic then added that not everyone had a smart phone and even if they did they don’t want endless apps cluttering their phone. He shut up after that.

53298 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #198 of 996 🔗

From next Friday, I’m wondering what approach to take. Should I have a crib-sheet of facts, or should I just smile and walk away, head held high …?

53304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 4, #199 of 996 🔗

Its tempting to keep a swathe of leaflets in my bag and start handing them out. Or I’m thinking of wearing a sandwich board during my breaks, it could be a great conversation starter with colleagues.

53496 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #200 of 996 🔗

The response would probably be – I couldn’t accept one of your leaflets because it would probably be carrying the virus.

53519 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Polemon2, 2, #201 of 996 🔗

I could spray the leaflet with antibacterial spray in front of them.

53347 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 5, #202 of 996 🔗

Give them one, good fact or pithy statement, e.g. “Look at all these staff, they’ve been fine throughout”, and then do the walk/head thing.

53670 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, 2, #203 of 996 🔗

Head butt them. (Wow, I’m getting angry.)

53797 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 2, #204 of 996 🔗

I’m getting there! Certainly yesterday, when someone asked me “what’s the problem, it’s only a mask?” I didn’t know where to start. Though I did tell her that it was all a con so that the government can cover its arse. She had the look of a goosed dowager duchess when I said that!

53877 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to kh1485, 1, #205 of 996 🔗

Carl Vernon is great on the ‘it’s only a bit of cloth’ line (oh, and his views on the demise of the high street ring true, even if they’re a bit depressing):


53666 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kh1485, 3, #206 of 996 🔗

I am and will be. And if someone levels an accusation at me my retort will be ‘You’re killing your granny by getting in a car so I hope you bloody walked here.’ Though I might use riper language.

53346 ▶▶ drrobin, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #207 of 996 🔗

I wrote to them, enquiring on behalf of individuals with two conditions.

Asthma, and I noted the Asthma Society stating that government advise that sufferers are not required to wear a mask.

… and with the assumption of Section 1 Part 4 of the Public transport act, Distress caused by Mask.


Nothing encouraging in the reply, but if they don’t accept this card: https://hiddendisabilitiesstore.com/hidden-disabilities-face-covering.html

… and turn away an Asthma Sufferer, I’ll certainly share the publicity with you good folk.

My reply from Waitrose read

As an Asthma sufferer myself, I can appreciate your concern. We are currently awaiting detailed guidance on this and once we have an update you will will find it here: https://bit.ly/3fCcUQo

I am sorry I am unable to provide you with any further information, however if there is anything I can do to assist you further, please do let me know.

53354 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to drrobin, 5, #208 of 996 🔗

010 I am sorry I am unable to provide you with any further information

020 however if there is anything I can do to assist you further, please do let me know.

030 Goto 010

53357 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #209 of 996 🔗

ha! compuar sez noh

53363 ▶▶▶▶ drrobin, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #210 of 996 🔗

Too right Sam. It’s like after the half hour in which the call center fails to do what you request, and someone concludes with “Is there anything else I can help you with today?” which always requires questioning the word “else”, perhaps with the response, do “Did you mean, is there anything you can help me with?”

53397 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to drrobin, #211 of 996 🔗

Talking of people blindly following a script (does that sound familiar), I always end my conversation with “Great, that’s everything I need, thanks.” And call centre person *still* asks “Is there anything else…”

53382 ▶▶▶▶ drrobin, replying to Sam Vimes, #212 of 996 🔗

I’ve been considering your code, Sam. If you find yourself without a job thanks the lockdown, we’ve discussed at length that Imperial College are jolly keen models. Worth asking there? Your code could be the basis of a highly predictive model of behaviour relating to Covid-19. And it is somewhat more concise than some I’ve seen 😉

53391 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to drrobin, 2, #213 of 996 🔗

That code is way more sophisticated than the Imperial model and probably more accurately reflects the behaviour of SARS-CoV-2.

However, with news of the lay offs at the BBC and Guardian, I expect there to be a lot of new programmers out there competing for our jobs.

53393 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to drrobin, 2, #214 of 996 🔗

A whole new career beckons! Bugger this Captain of the Watch stuff!

53389 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to drrobin, 2, #215 of 996 🔗

Hopefully you get a reply and that they will be following the likes of Tesco and Morrisons. If not then they’re not getting my cash.

53269 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 33, #216 of 996 🔗

The speed at which muzzles have been adopted as a global symbol of Covid solidarity is quite unsettling. In Western societies in particular, there is a trendy new kind of virtue-signalling in town. The kind that confers a great deal of righteousness to the wearers of muzzles, that broadcasts to the rest of the world “I am a good person. I am compliant. I am selfless.”

Social media is no doubt a significant motor behind the sanctification of these wretched face nappies and those who obligingly adorn them. It’s no surprise to see that the bulk of those championing muzzles include the usual glut of impressionable millenials, a group more likely to conform to whatever generates likes and retweets rather than something that runs counter to Covid groupthink.

Politicians, high profile celebrities and even the social media companies themselves are busy cajoling the masses into muzzle conformity, whereas sceptics like ourselves are othered. We’re branded as arrogant, selfish granny killers, bad citizens who put our personal gripes ahead of the “greater good.”

They will churn out the same stale tropes when they encounter heretics such as ourselves, “it’s just a mask,” “I’m sure you’ll find a ventilator more comfortable,” and when their new faith is really challenged by the presentation of studies which downplay the effectiveness of muzzling the healthy population, they pull out the big guns “you’re actually killing people by not wearing a mask.”

This is usually the end of the conversation – the muzzealot has no desire to converse with a cold-blooded murderer. Then away they will go – looking for the next unmasked witch to burn, secure in the knowledge that when Covid-19 eventually does bring about the Rapture, they will be saved whilst we will be damned.

If the price for enjoying civil liberties is an eternity scorching in the hellfires, then that’s a risk I’m willing to take.

P.S. Thank you for the mention, Toby. I’m back at work tomorrow but it’s been great to spend more time within this fantastic community!

53280 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Scotty87, 20, #217 of 996 🔗

Well said Scotty!

Not helped by social media where they post selfies of themselves in their muzzles going “look at meeee!!!! I’m so virtuous, I care about people, I want you to be safe.”

From what I see in my social media accounts, its not only the millenials who are guilty of this but even older people who ought to know better but either are a) keen to get down with the yoof or b) have swallowed the propaganda whole and are not financially impacted or c) both

“Bollocks!” is what I say to all of that

If they want to muzzle themselves fine but do not expect me to conform to them. I have read the information and made my choice. I respect their choice they should respect mine. Trying to debate with these people is like trying to draw blood out of a stone, I can cite figures and stats until kingdom come but they’ll wheel out the same old tired tropes.

As I’ve said in this site before, the only thing that would wake this lot up is when they’re finally hit in the pocket and stomach via job losses, bankruptcies and tax raids on their pensions. And that day will soon come.

53291 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #218 of 996 🔗

The thing I find sad is that some of our very long-term friends can be included in the list above. mainly group (b). They just seem to see all this virus stuff as merely another daily thing to comply with, like it’s just a temporary blip and they can’t see what’s really underneath it all. I don’t want to see them hit financially but I fear (oops, that word) that it might be essential to fire up the fighting-neurones. I’m in the pensioner bracket, almost, and I don’t want to see my savings being raided either, but I think we’re all going to get hit one way or t’other.

53301 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #219 of 996 🔗

Exactly. Or if they see it, they’re in denial and think that they’re conforming for the greater good. Its depressing to see people especially the old having been brainwashed into submission.

We all have to pay one way or the other and I’m sorry to say this but rich pensioners should not be exempt. I used to live in Edinburgh and begrudged the fact that my season ticket kept increasing year on year due to “inflation” but in reality its for the likes of me on my not so good pay having to subsidise the rich living in places like Stockbridge, Morningside, Portobello, Dean village, etc.

53679 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #220 of 996 🔗

Of course rich pensioners shouldn’t be exempt and if I were one I would accept such a notion. Poor pensioners trying to exist on £700 a month, not so much.

53997 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, #221 of 996 🔗

Agree. When I lived in Edinburgh, Mr Bart and I always wondered why the free bus travel was not reserved for poor pensioners.

53577 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #222 of 996 🔗

I can understand older people wearing them if it makes them feel safer, but seeing younger people, and especially children wearing them is just lunacy.

54035 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Lms23, 1, #223 of 996 🔗

Its the same youngsters who were on the BLM marches…they did not realise they were supporting an evil communist organisation. They really are brain dead.

53676 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #224 of 996 🔗

That won’t wake them up. One of humanity’s biggest problems, individually or collectively, is admitting they were wrong. That’s why we give plaudits to those who do: they are such an exception.

53998 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, #225 of 996 🔗

Unfortunately you may be right. This crisis has allowed me to see the best and the worst (more of the latter) in people.

54038 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bella, #226 of 996 🔗

People become very attached to a particular narrative. Over time it gives them warmth and pleasure and even an identity in the eyes of others. Shifting position may lead to the opprobrium of others in their chosen circles. They may be ignored at dinner parties!

54032 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #227 of 996 🔗

I dont even bother to engage with them now I just ignore them completely. If they get really in my face I tell them to FO and mind their own business. If they want to get physical they will regret it with me. To (mis) quote Mrs Thatcher….’you mask if you want to’.

53296 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Scotty87, 7, #228 of 996 🔗

The Masked Martyrs, they are not wearing them to save themselves but to save You. Honestly the media can virtue signal anything now

53521 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Scotty87, 5, #229 of 996 🔗

I’m sure you’ll find a ventilator more comfortable

I would never go on one, being dead is far preferable to living in a world populated by people like you.

you’re actually killing people by not wearing a mask.

Probably, but I also use guns,knives and poison depending how the mood takes me. Talking about that I wouldn’t buy any of those eclairs if I were you.

53601 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Old Bill, #230 of 996 🔗


53573 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Scotty87, 6, #231 of 996 🔗

“you’re actually killing people by not wearing a mask.”

“As I haven’t worn a mask since this all began, and there were no CV19 deaths for a couple of days, I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from that anyone is being killed, least of all by me.”

54084 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Lms23, #232 of 996 🔗

You can only kill people if you have it, and most people don’t

(for very small values of “kill”)

53671 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Scotty87, 1, #233 of 996 🔗

I’m seeing this meme more and more on Facebook – I mute anyone who shares it because I don’t need that sort of virtue-signalling judgemental smugness in my life. But it struck me that if I, as an anti-masker, where to post something similar with arguments against mask-wearing, I would be lambasted and pilloried. I wonder where this shareable meme first originated – 77th Brigade perhaps?!

When I wear a mask in public and in the shops , I am saying:

  • I know that I could be asymptomatic and still give you the virus.
  • No, I don’t “live in fear” of the virus; I just want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
  • I don’t feel like the “government controls me”. I feel like I’m an adult contributing to public safety in our society and I want to teach others the same.
  • If we could all live with the consideration of others in mind, the whole world would be a much better place.
  • Wearing a mask doesn’t make me weak, scared, stupid or even “controlled”. It makes me caring.
  • When you think about your appearance, mild discomfort, or other people’s opinion of you, imagine a loved one – a child, father, mother, grandparent, aunt, uncle – or even a stranger placed on a ventilator, alone without you or any family member allowed at their bedside.
  • Ask yourself if you could have helped them a little while wearing a mask.
53741 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Scotty87, 1, #234 of 996 🔗

This kind of attitude is why I suspect the mask regulations – however unpopular and hard to enforce they turn out to be – won’t end up being scrapped or watered down, as the equally farcical (though not as universally Orwellian) 2-week quarantine for overseas travel has been.
Lots of people WANT masks, as you say, and would be furious at the goverment for going back on their decision. (Never mind that most of these people would be unlikely to vote for them anyway). Travel quarantine, on the other hand, is just a frustrating inconvenience for people, with no opportunities to virtue-signal and much less accumulation of politicised pro- and- anti- arguments, so even the most committed pandemic-zealot isn’t going to waste much time defending it.

54207 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Scotty87, 1, #235 of 996 🔗

Agree with you, and very well put.The mask-wearing mania is reminiscent of and related to Gleichschaltung, in Hitler’s Germany. An innovation little understood by most who discuss the foundations the Third Reich’s totalitarianism that was central to introducing and maintaining total social control.

53282 Will, replying to Will, 3, #236 of 996 🔗

Are the police permitted, by law, to force someone to divulge a medical condition?

53302 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Will, 13, #237 of 996 🔗

No. Even the shops and your employer isn’t allowed to ask that, its protected by medical confidentiality and privacy laws.

53980 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #238 of 996 🔗

Yes I read that too today, I wasn’t aware they couldn’t or shouldn’t ask you so it’s fairly easy replying ” I can’t for health reasons” .

53314 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Will, #239 of 996 🔗


53327 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Basics, 7, #240 of 996 🔗

The thought of a vaccine terrifies me. I don’t want to have a vaccine so am I going to be labelled as a murder. Are we really going to force a population who are not affected by this illness to be mass vaccinated. It seems wrong to me

53494 ▶▶▶▶ Phil Beckley, replying to wendy, #241 of 996 🔗

I also am frightened by the promotion of vaccines, but am hopeful that there will be enough of a pushback to scupper the enforcers. Meanwhile I have ordered my Delingpod lockdown sceptical mug and T shirt.

53983 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to wendy, 2, #242 of 996 🔗


54088 ▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to wendy, #243 of 996 🔗

Not only that but I suspect by now most people are already immune

53283 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 8, #244 of 996 🔗

‘NHS England Reports Zero Deaths From Covid for July 13th – 14th’

We have confirmation…yet it’s nowhere to be seen in MSM. Bet your arse I’ll be sharing the hell out of it though!

53331 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, #245 of 996 🔗

Can anyone help with an easily accessible + readable link that I can actually share regarding this? CEBM has changed their layout which isn’t exactly helpful. And the NHS England graph isn’t all that clear either

53343 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to kbeanie, 1, #246 of 996 🔗
53369 ▶▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to smileymiley, #247 of 996 🔗

It doesn’t clearly state the dates of the 13th, 14th + 15th on the graph? I just want it to be clear so people I share it with can’t argue with me

54210 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to smileymiley, #248 of 996 🔗

Doesn’t seem to be user-friendly.
Why should Ihave to download this?
I want to see the figs on a webpage.

53336 ▶▶ PAUL TURNBULL, replying to kbeanie, 2, #249 of 996 🔗

this isnt the first time, the first time was last week. follow professor Carl Heneghan on twitter, he does daily updates.

53358 ▶▶ Basics, replying to kbeanie, 3, #250 of 996 🔗

I will be sharing too. With the added note, why aren’t msm telling you the good news- they were happy to tell you the bad.

53367 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, #251 of 996 🔗

Where is this, please? NHS figs out yesterday show 9 deaths on 13th? Or am I missing something?

53580 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sam Vimes, #252 of 996 🔗

They may have occurred in the preceding week or more, but we’re announced on that date.

53407 ▶▶ Philip Baynes, replying to kbeanie, 2, #253 of 996 🔗

Another useful resource is on twitter, a statistician who posts under @RP131. He posts a load of graphs usually in the late afternoon after PHE , ONS ,NHS etc do their daily releases.
The one to look for is what he calls his “new style pivot” which shows the daily announced deaths by they date which they actually occurred.
So for instance yesterday NHS England announced 22 new deaths in hospitals for the 24hrs up to July 14th, but none of them actually occurred on the 14th. The others mostly occurred in the previous 5 days.

54090 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Philip Baynes, #254 of 996 🔗

Didn’t Matt Hancock claim 88 deaths or something like it? ( I watched him but failed to concentrate)

53288 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 14, #255 of 996 🔗

I posted late last night on the lunacy of Blackburn with Darwen council’s announcement yesterday with regards to emergency measures because of a ‘spike’ in cases. Amongst other nonsense, one of the measures is for people to ‘bump elbows’ if they are not from the same household, followed by ‘we won’t be offended if everyone does this’.


I have slept a little since but the figures quoted are still puzzling me. The briefing states “The borough is currently at a rate of 40 cases per 100,000, making us fourth highest.”

The population is just under 150,000 so this extrapolates out at a total of 60 cases or 0.04%.

What am I missing? Why is this cause for concern?

53427 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Howie59, 4, #256 of 996 🔗

Simple answer : It isn’t.

53297 spelldispel, 16, #257 of 996 🔗

Hello, not commented for a while. Been away for a few days now that hotels have reopened. There seems to be a bit of a regional difference to the bedwetting! Somerset seems to be functioning in a relatively normal manner but Devon seems very different!

Worried about the face mask stuff… I fear where this will end. Got a message from my friend yesterday saying he will refuse to go to work if they introduce them to our office. I will too but how many others will? Getting more and more frustrated with people just accepting all this nonsense without critical thought, they are as complicit as the government.

53303 wendy, replying to wendy, 13, #258 of 996 🔗

Pubs: I went to two last night and both were so normal I could have cried with joy. One was a Wetherspoons where we had food with friends. They have put up discrete screens but we could order at the bar ….and arrived without a booking. No forms to complete. Staff were welcoming and treated us like people and not gross vectors of disease. Next place was a free house and was like before, just a small poster about distancing and the staff doing door handle cleaning.

Unfortunately the Council has felt the need to spray the pavements and benches with keep 2 metres apart or bench for one person only which looks horrible and insulting.

53311 ▶▶ spelldispel, replying to wendy, 1, #259 of 996 🔗

I’ve been in 5, the 3 that I went in Somerset were like normal, albeit a few less tables, one in Devon we sat outside but my partner said when he went into order they were all panicked with the sign in book etc, the other one also in Devon had signs everywhere, we were briefed when entering, tables marked off, floor markings, one way system in place, it was not great.

53322 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to spelldispel, 3, #260 of 996 🔗

Only the comfortable places will get business.

53313 ▶▶ John Ballard, replying to wendy, 1, #261 of 996 🔗

Maybe the pubs will be the only places happy with the new rules on masks in shops as it will be about the only place we can go to feel like normal. I will just go to the pub more and spend the money I save by not shopping.

53321 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to John Ballard, 2, #262 of 996 🔗

Yes I was thinking that. No shopping for me but some pubs will be good places. We walked past many open restaurants which looked welcoming. I feel I want to go the restaurants and pubs just to feel normal. Shops will be horrible places for me. I wonder if certain shops might do okay if it is young people who are keen to wear masks and shops where an older shopper goes might do worse. Young people tend to have less money to spend though than older so if older people are avoiding the horrible shopping experience perhaps some shops will have a rethink.

53365 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendy, 3, #263 of 996 🔗

The irony with that logic is that many shops spend millions trying to lure the young despite having less money to spend while at the same time alienate the older customer who has more money to spend. This is one reason why the fashion industry is in such trouble not to mention that it is such a cut throat and saturated sector.

The lockdown, antisocial distancing and now the mandatory muzzles will hasten their demise.

53445 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to wendy, #264 of 996 🔗

Pizza Express last night. Free dough balls with a ‘main’. Menu on app if you don’t remember it! Very physically spaced. Several groups people not all tables occupied. Empty by 9.15. Prices up. 3 pizzas, 2 puds bottle wine. £72. Great to see the staff again but for how long will it continue? I know the chain is already in trouble but they’ve got a mountain to climb without people spending.

53338 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wendy, 3, #265 of 996 🔗

Wethy’s are doing it right, meeting the implied obligations of the (non-statutory) ‘guidance’, but not pushing anything at you, other than bizarre queuing. They are also reducing beer prices, even though the vat cut doesn’t apply.

53344 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendy, #266 of 996 🔗

I’m going to the pub tonight (Edinburgh), it’s a 1 man band independent pub so hopefully no gross social distancing, name and number scenario. I’ve had to book a 2 hour slot though but it is a small pub. Will report back tomorrow along with the report from my mask less weekly shop

53305 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 17, #267 of 996 🔗

Just listening to the radio, talksport. You cannot escape the Covid Government warnings to not share misinformation, ping, don’t feed the beast etc. Laughable advertising given the unbalanced panic reporting we have had to endure month after month. Do the Government not have a responsibility to provide some encouragement, balance, positivity? Weakest most half-witted politicians in my lifetime, but imagine the next lot will be even worse.
Latest story is the England cricketer not allowed to play as he has broken Covid rules, you would think he had fallen into a vat of plutonium the way its reported.
I said months ago when I was first forced to work from home that this was the first snowflake pandemic, as I sit at home months later, with some staff now jobless and redundant, nothing has changed my mind.
Stay at home, stay alert, look forward to higher taxes and a miserable life. I voted for the Buffoon, never again.

53325 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to John Ballard, #268 of 996 🔗

how have they got so many people in with the power to go along with it, money?

53351 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #269 of 996 🔗

that or secret society membership or blackmail

53339 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to John Ballard, 2, #270 of 996 🔗

Just read this about Jordan archer, what absolute tosh. I thought this nonsense couldn’t render me anymore speechless

53751 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to stefarm, #271 of 996 🔗

I don’t remember ever hearing of something so ridiculous. This is a fit 25 year old fast bowler, not an 85 year-old with clapped out lungs. Hardly a death sentence if he got CCP Virus, which is bitten by a snake territory anyway.

53426 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to John Ballard, 3, #272 of 996 🔗

Quite laughable after the leaks they’ve done throughout, and even on Sunday you have Gove saying “No mask”, the on Monday Boris announcing “Mandatory Masks”. You don’t get better misinformation that this!

53306 Emma, replying to Emma, 19, #273 of 996 🔗

The tragic report of the man who lost his wife after her cancer treatment was cancelled is one of many such, sadly. I wonder if this is a phenomenon worldwide (withdrawal of healthcare except for coronavirus), or if this is exclusively a UK scandal.

53309 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Emma, 5, #274 of 996 🔗

I think its global as I vaguely remember an article about developing countries where their good work in bringing down cases of illnesses such as malaria is under threat because of the preoccupation with Covid 19. That article quoted a government official who said that Covid is the least of their problems.

53312 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Emma, 11, #275 of 996 🔗

It is extremely sad. He and many others will have to carry that sadness and anger for the rest of their lives. So many lives have been and will be turned upside down by U.K. response to Covid and it’s continued fear reporting of winter deaths people will continue to avoid hospitals and treatments cannot get back to normal because of restrictions.

53315 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Emma, 2, #276 of 996 🔗

If you want to investigate how covid is affecting our cousins across the pond, check out Dr Pam Popper’s website and frequent video updates. I think the same is happening in pro-lockdown States. Maybe UK column has information on what is going on on the Continent. As for elsewhere, I’m not sure.

53326 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #277 of 996 🔗


Lockdown Deaths, Not Covid Deaths

Really worth the moments to read.

53316 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #278 of 996 🔗

Another subtlety of their strategy which may go under the radar if not pointed out. As mentioned by a commenter yesterday, dritfted out on msm this morning, there is going to be an announcement on Monday about the status of the vaccination trials. This, in my opinion, is a deliberate trailing of the announcement to give people a sense of majesty about the vaccine. The of PR for vaccination must be to lift the desire for vaccination out of the hum drum and into something special.

It’s propaganda being used this morning and on through the weekend.

53335 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 5, #279 of 996 🔗

Linked to this, Richard Horton (editor of The Lancet) just interviewed on CNBC this morning. He has a book out that he has been plugging, and there will be a paper in The Lancet on Monday about the vaccine trials. Shameless promotion of the ‘new normal’, Big Pharma and industry working together with government, how scientists must speak truth to power (the right sort of scientists, of course!) and how ‘selfless’ the Chinese academics have been in working to solve the CV pandemic. The interviewers are all pretty clued up from a firm/financial markets perspective, so did probe how the paper on HCQ that had to be retracted by The Lancet was chosen. As I have said before, his role needs to be investigated, by which I mean, all email traffic since the start of the year. Suspect the Americans will issue subpoenas at some point.

53345 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #280 of 996 🔗

Searching ‘Richard Horton (editor of The Lancet) just interviewed on CNBC this morning’, on a google brings up an interesting selection of recent comment in the press by Richard Horton. Critical of Britian’s response and defending Chinese efforts. I shall seek out CNBC this morning.

53342 ▶▶ Will, replying to Basics, 6, #281 of 996 🔗

I think the vaccine propaganda is to encourage the idea that face nappies won’t need to be worn for ever as long as we submit to being injected with something that, simply, cannot have been as rigorously tested as normal vaccines.

53432 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to Basics, 1, #282 of 996 🔗

Yep. Front page in the DT this morning

53319 Paul Morgan, 3, #283 of 996 🔗

Could you please update us on the ant-mask protest proposed in your reported tweet by Leah Butler-Smith #KBF ? I would definitely attend and would be wearing my long-beak plague mask and top hat.

53323 Dan Clarke, 6, #284 of 996 🔗

I will be telling the masked martyrs that I didn’t ask them to save me, even though that’s not why they are wearing one

53332 stewart, replying to stewart, 7, #285 of 996 🔗

If we don’t resist the compulsory use of face masks which have no real effect or proper scientific backing, how exactly will we resist being being implanted with a microchip which is actually likely to work?

Future microchip implants will probably be effective in detecting the production of pathogens in our bodies in real time and send alerts for the infected people to isolate. The argument for them will be that they save the lives of others and not having everyone wear them will lead to many deaths. And the argument will be correct.

If we are unable to resist measures that make no sense (face masks), we will have zero chance of resisting measures that do makes sense (microchip implants).

53341 ▶▶ IanE, replying to stewart, 1, #286 of 996 🔗

I think you overestimate the effectiveness of such chips!

53353 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to IanE, 2, #287 of 996 🔗
53355 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to IanE, #288 of 996 🔗

Given the pace of technological advance, my guess is that it’s a matter of a few years.

53360 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to stewart, #289 of 996 🔗

I’d got further and say a few months…

53403 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to stewart, #290 of 996 🔗

The existing PCR test is a bag of crap, any microchip that claims any such thing will either be snake oil or a programmable system that allows authorities to remove people at a whim.

53553 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Cicatriz, #291 of 996 🔗

The Gates system is centralised – deeply sinister.

53333 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 2, #292 of 996 🔗

There’s an easy to solution to this nonsense. Defund Parliament, Defund Councils, Defund the media

53373 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cecil B, 3, #293 of 996 🔗

Indeed, it’s called conservatism, but even the Conservatives seem to have abandoned the idea…

53334 Richard, replying to Richard, 4, #294 of 996 🔗

The government gambled on a untried, untested strategy, and it failed badly, all we need to know now is who approved the lockdown, the government, or the globalist’s, having seen what I’ve seen, I would guess the latter!

53467 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Richard, 1, #295 of 996 🔗

The lockdown wasn’t recommended by SAGE.

53337 Will, replying to Will, #296 of 996 🔗

Please can someone point me in the direction of the graphs showing Sweden’s excess deaths are lower than Denmark and Finland. It was in the comments section a while back and, stupidly I forgot to save it. Thank you.

53340 Margaret, 4, #298 of 996 🔗

I missed posting this on the masked woman competition but I would be tempted to ask her if she ever asked disabled people why they were in a wheelchair or blind people why they used a white stick.

53348 Daisy May, #299 of 996 🔗

Archers listeners might find a bit of light relief from the current BBC ghastliness by reading The True Chronicles of Ambridge, which is completely virus-free, just like the old days (only better). Full of drama and jolliness. Not a smidgeon of Covid or any masks to be seen. Read it at eglantinecornfield.blogspot.com

53352 Tom C, 1, #300 of 996 🔗

You can also download a face covering exemption card from the TFL website. They will also send you one for free. FYI – I wonder what the shop’s exemptions will be, but if you ‘have breathing difficulties when you wear it and that leaves you anxiously trying to breath then no one can really say anything. (can any lawyers tell me I’m right or wrong on this please)

53359 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 1, #301 of 996 🔗

Boris is too busy shagging to run the country

53370 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cecil B, 8, #302 of 996 🔗

I thought he has already fucked the country 🤭

53384 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 4, #303 of 996 🔗

From every angle. Karma Sutra got nothing on Boz.

53361 Raoul Antelme, replying to Raoul Antelme, 3, #304 of 996 🔗

With all the usual caveats about surveys, here are three results from YouGov to consider:

  1. 41% of people in the UK are “very worried” or “fairly worried” that they might become seriously ill or die as a result of C-19 (June 26th);
  2. 62% of people have similar fears for “friends or family” (June 19th);
  3. the number of people wearing masks in public has more than doubled between May 15th (18%) and June 12th (38%).

Consider further that (according to YouGov) only in Finland, Denmark, Sweden and Australia are people less likely to be wearing masks than in the UK, but that we are the laggards of Europe; the corresponding percentages in Germany, France and Italy, for example, are 65%, 78% and 83% respectively.

With a significant minority unreasonably fearful for their own safety, a significant majority unreasonably fearful on behalf of friends and family, and mask-wearing on the up, but still significantly below par for Europe, why are we surprised that our brave government has chosen this open door to push on?

It’s the will of the people, people. Stop blaming the government and start coaxing friends and family out from under their beds.

53424 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Raoul Antelme, 8, #305 of 996 🔗

You’ve just proved it’s NOT the will of the people, but rather that even with the desperate, ongoing mass propaganda carried out both by the government and by the media, hand in glove, they still haven’t yet persuaded more than a minority of people to wear face nappies.

There’s obviously a place for direct personal persuasion, but that in no way removes the absolute legitimacy and correctness of blaming this wholly culpable government for what it has perpetrated.

Never forget. Never forgive.

53362 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #306 of 996 🔗

When a supermarket mask lover accuses you of granny-killing, and you point out that they weren’t used at the start, or during the peak and then you say “Look at all these staff, they’ve been maskless all along and they are all ok”… if the zombie doesn’t get it, then we really are lost.

53375 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #307 of 996 🔗

I plan to just say that wearing masks tells young people that they should be afraid of life.
Don’t forget that in 1968-1969 we had a much worse epidemic without any thought of a lockdown.

53381 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mike Smith, 8, #308 of 996 🔗

That was before internet and smart phones, Mike… So it never happened.

54050 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #309 of 996 🔗

People also had their feet on the ground more…they still remembered real problems like WW2. They accepted that death was part of life. It would have been unthinkable for healthy people’s lives to be wrecked in this way. Also we were much poorer then…spunking billions up the wall on furlough was simply not an option.

53390 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 12, #310 of 996 🔗

If someone calls you a Granny-Killer, respond back to them in a menacing tone with “How do you know what I was inside for, she deserved it?”

Then see what their response is.

53399 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 2, #311 of 996 🔗

Love it.

53364 DoesDimSyniad, 6, #312 of 996 🔗


The problem for living in Australia is not that Qantas isn’t providing international flights till March because Qatar, Etihad, Royal Brunei and Singapore Airlines at least are still providing them. Qantas can shoot itself in the head to go with its bullet riddled feet if it wants. The problem is that Australians are not permitted to leave Australia – we’re not talking about advice to avoid all unessential overseas travel, which is pretty typical globally, but an actual totalitarian ban. There are exemptions, but I’d say good luck getting one – it looks rather like having to apply for an exit visa but most applicants are just automatically assumed to be criminals and so won’t be permitted to leave anyway.

53371 James007, replying to James007, 4, #313 of 996 🔗

Just add another option. In my opinion the card and landyard from hidden disabilities look better than the recommendation in today’s article. This organisation aims to promote awareness of hidden disabilities (eg related to austism, adhd, mental health etc….)

Not available on amazon.

53551 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to James007, #314 of 996 🔗

I’m waiting for my delivery. Ordered a few so that I can carry a spare to give out to anyone that asks about it.

53372 Gtec, replying to Gtec, 6, #315 of 996 🔗

I wrote to my MP yesterday evening (not something I’ve ever personally been driven to do before!), not so much in hope, but just let him know how I feel about, well everything to do with the government and C-19.

I would post a copy, but it’s rather long and I can’t post it in one piece here, but I’ll let you know if I get any sort of ‘meaningful’ reply! .

53380 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Gtec, 2, #316 of 996 🔗

Just don’t hold your breath!

53392 ▶▶▶ Gtec, replying to IanE, 1, #317 of 996 🔗

I wasn’t planning to!

53387 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gtec, 3, #318 of 996 🔗

Gtec, post it here: https://lockdownsceptics.com/viewforum.php?f=29

I have created a section on the forum for everyone to create template letters for us to send to MP’s and Companies to complain.

53388 ▶▶▶ Gtec, replying to JohnB, #319 of 996 🔗

Thanks, I will later – just a little busy now!

53960 ▶▶▶ Gtec, replying to JohnB, #320 of 996 🔗

Letter posted! Thanks.

53735 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Gtec, #321 of 996 🔗

Same here! Great minds, eh?

53377 Ed Turnbull, replying to Ed Turnbull, 8, #322 of 996 🔗

With regard to wearing a badge to indicate your exemption from the muzzle: don’t! You’re under no legal obligation to do so, and your reasons for not been muzzled are no one’s business save your own. I very much doubt the government will make exemption badges mandatory, apart from pissing off the many disability organisations it smacks a bit too much of yellow Stars of David in 1930s Germany. And even our moronic government must know that those optics will not look good, at all.

53402 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Ed Turnbull, 2, #323 of 996 🔗

“And even our moronic government must know that those optics will not look good, at all.”

I really wouldn’t count on that.

53528 ▶▶ DownWithBedwetters, replying to Ed Turnbull, 1, #324 of 996 🔗

From my perspective, it’s more to do with dealing with bolshy shop assistants.

I’ve already had the local Little Hitler telling me that “you will have to comply or you will be fined £100!”.

53557 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to DownWithBedwetters, #325 of 996 🔗

Then you simply leave.My Cockney great-grandmother, when asked not to handle the produce,told a fishmonger: “You can keep your fish, it’ll stink before my money does.”

53546 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Ed Turnbull, 2, #326 of 996 🔗

I disagree with this although I understand your reasoning. One of our best tactics at present is to increase non compliance to farcical levels by showing the sheeple an effective loophole. If they see that I can get away with it then why shouldn’t they. Of course they could do this without a badge, but the badge may make it an easier leap for them.

53646 ▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #327 of 996 🔗

The problem with that approach is that unless you actually inform the sheeple it’s an effective loophole, they’ll just assume all the badges they see are genuine, and couldn’t possibly be an avenue for them to escape the muzzle. I will not be wearing a badge: several members of my wife’s family were murdered during the Holocaust (having no doubt worn their yellow stars) so this cuts rather too close to home. We need massive civil disobedience on muzzle wearing, but given that so many are gripped with fear (unfounded, but fear nonetheless), and so many more are desperate to virtue-signal, I think we may be waiting a long time. Meanwhile the best we can do is encourage all the sceptics we know to not comply. Let us not go gentle into that good night.

53378 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #328 of 996 🔗

That message from the paramedic outlines one of the many reasons why a socialised healthcare system is not a good idea.

54053 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #329 of 996 🔗

Its a disaster…. the NHS is next to bottom in virtually all measures of health care outcomes. The only one it is top in is complete access…the only problem is that applies to all visitors to the UK too! Laughing aside though all other health care systems in advanced countries except the USA have 100% access of the domestic population too…but funnily enough only the USA ever gets mentioned. Its what is know as setting the bar very low.

53383 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 16, #330 of 996 🔗

The ONS have now revised their unemployment figures estimation up to 4.5 million after more people registered as unemployed up to June. With 9 million still being Furlough 4.5 million may turn out to be a conservative figure, the true reality will start to show at the end of next month when Furlough changes so that it doesn’t pay NI or Pensions Contribution.

The OBR are estimating unemployment to go from 3.9% to 13%. Just last month their estimation was 10%.

It’s very odd that all these voices that were sh*tting themselves because of the impact Brexit would have on the economy are now so quiet about something that makes the worst case scenarios pale into insignificance.

53395 ▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnB, 9, #331 of 996 🔗

My heart breaks for all the school-leavers and university graduates who will be looking for jobs in the coming jobs desert – not to mention the middle-aged who lose their jobs and have negligible chances of ever getting another.

53417 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, 3, #332 of 996 🔗

And with Sunak’s job scheme for the young, it seems as though that will also cause a lot of unemployment, as we were told by an Amazon employee a fee days back who was being laid off because of it.

53722 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, 3, #333 of 996 🔗

I’m sticking with my apocalyptic 20% peak prediction. By this time next year I wouldn’t be surprised if 1 in 4 of us is unemployed or at least severely underemployed.
I think the worst case prediction I’ve seen from ‘officialdom’ is 15%. I’m willing to go higher.

54099 ▶▶▶ chris c, replying to Farinances, #334 of 996 🔗

Yes, it will be austerity with a turbocharger, probably forever.

53386 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #335 of 996 🔗

Remember the old paper of a common cold outbreak in Antartica after 17 weeks isolation? Six of 12 men had typical symptoms but virus could not be isolated (study 1973)


57 sailors in Argentina get coronavirus after weeks at sea, despite quarantine

  • The Echizen Maru fishing trawler returned to port in Ushuaia after crew members began exhibiting symptoms typical of Covid-19
  • They had all undergone 14 days of mandatory quarantine and tested negative before the ship departed
53401 ▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, #336 of 996 🔗

This is really, really interesting.

53604 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to matt, #337 of 996 🔗

Blue ice incident? I hypothesised this after I got ill at Christmas, living as I do in the environs of Stansted Airport.

53394 Ross Hendry, replying to Ross Hendry, 3, #338 of 996 🔗

On July 8, 2020, the Robert Koch Institute counted just 5205 people who had tested positive for Sars-CoV-2. This corresponds to 0.0065 percent of the 80 million German inhabitants. Nevertheless, the RKI continues to rate the risk to the health of the population as “high” and that of the risk groups as “very high”. The result: the government’s corona measures remain in place: distance rules, mask requirements, quarantine for those who test positive and people who have dealt with them. Millions of people are now worried about their existence, are on short-time work or have already lost their jobs. But are these drastic measures still proportionate to the real risk situation, and if not, what is their aim? For the renowned psychotraumatologist Prof. Dr. Franz Ruppert from Munich is clear: the corona pandemic has been prepared for a long time. The master plan is to take away their old freedoms because of an allegedly highly contagious virus, and to only give back these freedoms when people are vaccinated, genetically manipulated and can be comprehensively monitored.

In an interview with Robert Fleischer, Prof. Ruppert explains the drastic effects of government measures on the mental health of the population. Especially with small children wearing masks can cause trauma. But that’s not all: In an internal paper from the Federal Ministry of the Interior, “experts” propose to exploit people’s “primal fears” to “achieve the desired shock effect”. For Prof. Ruppert, a red line has been crossed. Because such targeted traumatization of the masses can lead to serious psychosocial disorders.

Taken from YouTube video https://bit.ly/2Ou69UL (auto-translation into English available).

53452 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Ross Hendry, 3, #339 of 996 🔗

It terrifies me that people still believe all this nonsense and will happily be tracked, traced, wear a mask and no doubt submit to a potentially harmful vaccination.
This form of brainwashing is inhuman on every level.

53396 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #340 of 996 🔗

One of the faces I would like to punch most through this whole ordeal:


53400 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, 1, #341 of 996 🔗

Too many to choose from at the mo.

53404 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, #342 of 996 🔗
53436 ▶▶ Mark, replying to smileymiley, 5, #343 of 996 🔗

Some nice Twitters come up for me when I looked at that one, a lot of them KBF. Liked this one as well:

Dr Ben Irvine

You’re not going to force me to wear a face mask when you can’t prove that I’m ill or that a face mask will protect you from the illness that you can’t prove I have. I live in a free country where you don’t get to force your neuroses on me. Which bit of this don’t you understand?


53405 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #344 of 996 🔗

Shout out to

I managed to fish out that email I was sent by John Lewis and here’s my reply. Apologies if I used the spirit of your email to write mine:


I received your email regarding the reopening of the John Lewis Oxford Street branch and having read your “Covid 19 Safety information”, I am writing to inform you that I will be boycotting your branch and all other John Lewis stores until you abolish all these protocols which are merely guidance and are unenforceable:


I understand however why you need to have these rules and while you are entitled to have them in place but I will not be coming to your shops as it will be nigh on impossible to try on clothes or test make up and skin care products.

I would also like to ask your position regarding face masks as I am unable to wear one due to physical and psychological reasons and I’m sure I’m not the only one in this situation. Given that your store was only in the news recently regarding the closure of eight of your shops and the axing of jobs, perhaps you and the rest of the upper echelons of management should consider the impact these measures will have on attracting customers to the store.

Thank you and I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,
etc, etc…..

53413 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #345 of 996 🔗

Thanks for this, I have made it into a template for other to use or quickly amend, and placed here:

53419 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 2, #346 of 996 🔗

I wrote one to the National Gallery and Waterstones as well, if you want them then I can repost them here or send you a PM via the forum.

53564 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #347 of 996 🔗

That’d be great! Send me a PM on the Forum and I’ll get them posted.

53611 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #348 of 996 🔗

Have just PM’d you the letters.

53408 richard, 1, #349 of 996 🔗

“In Asia during the SARS period, many people in the affected communities wore surgical masks when in public. But studies have shown that the ordinary surgical mask does little to prevent inhalation of small droplets bearing influenza virus.56 The pores in the mask become blocked by moisture from breathing, and the air stream simply diverts around the mask. There are few data available to support the efficacy of N95 or surgical masks outside a healthcare setting”


53409 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 16, #350 of 996 🔗

This week I’ve written to both Sir Christopher Chope and Sir Desmond Swayne to thank them both for sticking their heads above the parapet over the face masks issue.

Today I received a thank you from Sir Desmond Swayne and yesterday one from Sir Christopher Chope. He suggested that I write to my own MP, one of the new “red wall”
brigade. I replied that I had written to my MP on numerous occasions during the last few months, about 800% more than I had written to an MP in my 48 years of being able to vote.

The subjects of my emails varied from: why my grandchildren can now visit Alton Towers but not go to school, the urinary leash placed on people because public toilets have been closed and of course the imposition of face nappies (twice).

I have received two replies; one trumpeting the usual government propaganda on how well it is doing and the other regarding the opening of schools. I’m still awaiting a reply on face masks having asked for the government’s risk assessment on wearing them for long periods of time (and at altitude).

Let’s keep the pressure up on them all.

53415 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Margaret, 1, #351 of 996 🔗

I’ve been meaning to write to both of those MPs to thank them and your post has reminded me to do so!

53411 PoshPanic, 9, #352 of 996 🔗

Hi all,

Long time reader here. Thanks to Toby and you all for the daily sanity check.

Thought I would make a contribution to the theme tune list, if it hasn’t been suggested before?


“Why Don’t You” was a 1970’s kids TV show that encouraged kids… to not watch TV. So fat chance of a rerun nowadays.

Stay sceptical
Fuck the rules
Keep taking the piss


53416 RickH, 2, #353 of 996 🔗

Your average punter will become very pissed off with it all, very quickly I’ll bet.

I note this forecast. I would, indeed hope so, but I’m not so sure that it will happen as simply as that – compliance is deeply embedded.

The hopeful signs are the relatively low general incidence of mask wearing, and certainly anyone who has worn a a mask should be well aware of the unpleasant nature of the operation – which, in my reading, coupled with the definite effects related to oxygen supply and co2 – should give automatic exemption to the whole of the population. Make your own exemption card if it makes you feel better.

However, I do still hear a lot of superficial acceptance of the Big Lies. Many people are still warily accepting the narrative that this is other than a generally mild virus that has caused increased mortality well within the normal range for such epidemics, and that it still has a resurgent community presence, with a second wave inevitably round the corner.

Perhaps people are becoming more amenable to getting the true picture, presented coolly and rationally. That is the main hope, and I suggest that having some simple, clear facts up your sleeve is a good idea to use in any situation where it might be appropriate to drop a pebble in the pond.

For those who want to keep up to date with the reality (if you haven’t already found it), I would suggest the Oxford Centre for Evidence Based Medicine :


and the latest estimates of actual presence of the virus in the community can be found at :


Unfortunately, the latter isn’t regularly updated in with parallel with the evident decline in hospital admissions (from the former), but the figure of 1 in 3,900 from the back end of June is a good starting point, and you can do your own estimate of what it currently is.

It might be worth having comparative figures for the risks posed by other infections and everyday incidents.

53418 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 14, #354 of 996 🔗

I have been mulling this for a few days now, but the ‘sacking’ of Dr Julian Lewis from the Tory party last night made me think one or both of the following people need to take action quite soon.

Dr Therese Coffey, SoS for Work & Pensions. After this morning’s job stats, dig deep Therese, and ask yourself this: As the only member of the Cabinet with a science background, would the first female prime minister of this once great country, also with a degree in Chemistry from Somerville College, Oxford, have allowed this shit show to have even got off the ground, let alone still be in place some four months later? Resign now, and do a Robin Cook before the Parliamentary term ends.

Dr Chris Whitty, CMO. When you came back from your own experience of coronavirus, your body language at the press conference suggested you were at odds with the CSO. You are an ‘old school’ doctor who cares about your fellow citizens, concerned by the collateral damage from the lockdown. You do not owe the vaccine bandwagon and Big Pharma anything. Support your fellow doctors on the front line by over-riding the anti whistleblower stance of the NHS management and tell it as it is now, before the inquiry.

53705 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #355 of 996 🔗

I’m wondering what Jennie Harries makes of where we are now. I don’t know if she’s said anything recently. She seemed to have her head screwed on right to me, but was maybe afraid to say what she was really thinking.

53716 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to TJN, 1, #356 of 996 🔗

They have banished Harries. She speaks too much sense and is on record in the past as countering much of this bullshit. In the past though. Now she seems…. Like She’s constantly trying to wheel her way out of the grip of the politicians

53720 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Farinances, 1, #357 of 996 🔗

I do have some time for her. I’d have a lot more time if she came out fully with what she thinks.

53788 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to TJN, 3, #358 of 996 🔗

She has recently advised against the wearing of masks:


Strangely, the Government doesn’t seem so keen to follow medical advice when it contradicts their own diktats.

53428 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, #359 of 996 🔗

A ‘friend’, sent the following paper to me to prove that face masks work. Can any of our more sciency contributors debunk it for me so I can reply to her?


53474 ▶▶ stewart, replying to The Spingler, 2, #360 of 996 🔗

“Synthetic control method” sounds like BS.

Seems like they are just comparing areas with masks and without masks. So not using a control group in the proper scientific sense, but adding “synthetic” before to make it sound like it approximates to a randomized control trial. But not a randomized control trial at all.

53479 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to The Spingler, 4, #361 of 996 🔗

If you go to Swiss Propaganda Research, he has a section about face masks where it says the authors of the paper conclude the opposite of what the data shows.

53509 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to The Spingler, 3, #362 of 996 🔗

The report is based on Jena in Germany that has a population of 110,000, and at the time of this study had around 130-140 cases, since mask were introduced in this has flat lined around the 160 mark.

The problem is the amount of cases in 110,000 people is tiny, and lockdown is the sole cause of the flatlining, not masks. A bit of a breakdown of events:

Germany locked down on 22nd March.

On 31 March, Jena was the first major German city to announce an obligation to wear masks, or makeshift masks including scarves, in supermarkets, public transport, and buildings with public traffic.

The flatlining in this case is more likely due to the lockdown, as the cases stopped falling around the 9th April, and then flatlined as they had been in lockdown for 18 days then, and we were all told to self-isolating for 14 days safely eliminated the virus.

When you think that most people would’ve stayed home during this time, then the number of people wearing masks would have been minimal, so I don’t think this report is worth the paper it’s written on. If this report had been proven in a high density city with no lockdown in place where masks had been enforced, then yes it would definitely prove masks were a game changer if it lowered infections by 40%, but the reduction here is purely down to the lockdown being put in place.

53520 ▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to JohnB, #363 of 996 🔗

If i recall correctly, in all other cities, they found no difference when compared with their “synthetic” model. If masks had worked in Jena, how would they not have worked in the other places then?

53532 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to jrsm, 1, #364 of 996 🔗

I’ve had a look around the internet at the expert analysis of this report, and there is no criticism of this report even though it’s blatantly obvious that lockdown would’ve reduced these cases and not masks I believe there is probably criticism somewhere as there has to be, but this is all being hidden by search engines, and not being published at all by the media. It is extremely worrying time where dodgy studies like this are being taken as gospel.

53430 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #365 of 996 🔗
53431 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #366 of 996 🔗

Suspect after the removal of the whip from highly respected Dr Julian Lewis last night, more of the old guard will start to break ranks, and about time too!

53443 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #367 of 996 🔗

As well as the thumbs up and thumbs down, we should have a fingers crossed symbol. In the absence of such TT – fingers crossed!

53450 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #368 of 996 🔗

Just written to thank him too.

53453 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #369 of 996 🔗

Good news. I know of three now – Swayne, Chope and Leigh. Perhaps Mr Toby Young could keep a list and update when he updates the page, and “reach out” to them, try to start to form a resistance with a focus?

53701 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Julian, #370 of 996 🔗

Good idea. And it might encourage a few of the others we keep hearing about to break ranks.

53767 ▶▶▶ Brian D, replying to Julian, #371 of 996 🔗

I don’t know about anti-muzzle but Steve Baker spoke out early on. I’ve no ideas on his current views though

54061 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Brian D, #372 of 996 🔗

He was quickly muzzled lol.

53634 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #373 of 996 🔗

Edward Leigh is one of those rare beasts . a back bench MP with experience and who has sat on various committees, who actually talks sense about most subjects. So as to not appear politically biased, i also have the same high opinion of Frank Field for example .

54063 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to mjr, #374 of 996 🔗

Yes FF much missed…there will be no more like him I’m afraid.

53697 ▶▶ Graham, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #375 of 996 🔗

True, but it’s dispiriting to see the number of ignorant and sarcastic negative responses.

53433 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 13, #376 of 996 🔗

A surreal conversation with a pleasant nurse form my dental practice-in reply to my call begging for an appointment.

The gist of this was that, despite Holyrood giving the go ahead for full dental services to resume on July 13th, my practice is unable to offer normal appointments as the requisite PPE deemed essential for all aerosol generating procedures has still not been supplied.

What a farce! The nurse agreed that dentists have been left in the lurch and that Holyrood’s right hand doesn’t seem to have any idea of what its left hand is doing.

We’ve been locked up, gagged, bombarded with contradictory inconsistent Elf and Safety propaganda for 4 months, but an essential health service, run by qualified and highly trained professionals ,whose skills are facing increasing demand, is unable to fulfil its duty to its patients.

Why are these administrations so incompetent? 4 months down the line and no one seems to possess the requisite brain power to work out how to supply dentists and their colleagues with the PPE which these same administrations have declared to be mandatory.

The nurse put my name on a list and suggested a follow up call in one week’s time.

Initially she warned of a 4 month waiting list ; I told her that this would be impossible.

The Dear Leader earns something in the region of £150,000 per year and the various paper pushers who control medical and dental supplies must be fairly well paid, so why has this been left for so long?

So now , we face an epidemic of dental problems to be added to the already distressing accounts we’ve seen on this site about delayed cancer tests and treatment and cardiac services.

This bunch-Westminster and devolved -need to be held accountable for this shambles sooner rather than later: I won’t hold my breath!

Rant ends. 👿

53446 ▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 5, #377 of 996 🔗

Suggest staying away from sturgeons twitter feed today. She is claiming the sweetest reunion of all is her with her hair dresser. No, I am not making it up. A selfie with a tartan obsessed sturgeon accompanies the tweet.

Thinking care homes, thinking grandchildren, thinking oncologists with cancer patients might acutally be more important reunions.

53458 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 2, #378 of 996 🔗

My blood pressure cannot cope with Sturgeon at the best of times!

53464 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 1, #379 of 996 🔗

Stay away I tells thee!

54136 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 1, #380 of 996 🔗

Sticky Nurgeon is pure POISON

53529 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 2, #381 of 996 🔗

wendyk, we can only hope that NS’s dentist is a Lockdown-sceptic!

53578 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 2, #382 of 996 🔗

O yes! And a local anaesthetic refusenik!! Pain control is for the feeble;take it as it comes!

53535 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to wendyk, 1, #383 of 996 🔗

Can you not get an appointment with Dr Adrian Lesnyak, who created that petition for everyone to wear full body suits? I’m sure he’d be more than protected.

53598 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to wendyk, 1, #384 of 996 🔗

I’m having to go to Spain to get my treatment done. Never thought I would be a health tourist!

53687 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Margaret, #385 of 996 🔗

Good for you Margaret; I hope you receive decent treatment.

53880 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to wendyk, #386 of 996 🔗

Thank you, Wendy. My husband has used the dentist before and speaks highly of him.

53435 Basics, 2, #387 of 996 🔗

For anyone interested in the Behavioural Insights Team work in public health.


53437 LeMac, 23, #388 of 996 🔗

Just cancelled my direct debit to the Tories. Here’s my message:

Thought that real conservatives were taking over after the debacle of Cameron and May. Compulsory face masks in shops (and maybe other places) are the final straw. Clearly a political decision, not a scientific one especially given the virus is in significant retreat. Not seeing any leadership and it seems the govt is following opinion polls to drive policy. There was a bait-and-switch given we were locked-down to protect the NHS from being overwhelmed but now it seems we’re locked-down and civil liberties are being trampled to eradicate the virus completely. Apart from Brexit (which is now essentially done from a political perspective) this govt isn’t following conservative principles with their actions – though occasionally there’s some nice rhetoric. Never thought I’d be politically homeless on the right centre – shame.

53438 anti_corruption_tsar, replying to anti_corruption_tsar, 6, #389 of 996 🔗

The whole Joffra Archer story this morning disgusts me. Just shows how ridiculous this Covid nonsense really is. What an egregious curtailing of freedom.

53460 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to anti_corruption_tsar, 2, #390 of 996 🔗

Agree, if I were him I would tell them to shove it.

53476 ▶▶▶ anti_corruption_tsar, replying to stefarm, 9, #391 of 996 🔗

And on Test Match Special, commentators saying “we’re still in the middle of the Covid crisis”. What fu**ing planet are they living on, pardon my language? Covid peaked over 3 months ago around April 6th-8th – what a ridiculous comment!

53482 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to anti_corruption_tsar, 4, #392 of 996 🔗

I’m done with cricket, I could just imagine what Ian Botham would of said…has to be something deeper to it

53504 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 1, #393 of 996 🔗

Indeed, glad I’m of that vintage that watched cricket in the 70s & 80s.

53545 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, #394 of 996 🔗

Those were the days of no money in the game, and cricketer had to go on tour to South Africa because it paid more than what the counties and England paid, didn’t make any difference if they spoke out they’d still be employed. Nowadays cricketers are all in the pockets of big sponsors so have to toe their political line, can’t be seen doing bad PR.

53552 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, #395 of 996 🔗

And it’s all so totally soulless. Probably won’t be that long before they ditch test matches because people don’t have the attention span to appreciate the long-form game.

53563 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kh1485, 1, #396 of 996 🔗

Due to vast sums of money now most elite level sport is soulless. Football down to first 3 tiers, Cricket being taken over by 20/20 due to advertising, Systemic Drug Cheating in Athletics and Cycling.

I only do grassroots now, far more enjoyable.

53572 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, #397 of 996 🔗

Yep, couldn’t agree more. Sad though. Before I ditched my tv licence I caught some re-runs of test matches from the 80s. Fantastic stuff …

54066 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to kh1485, #398 of 996 🔗

Football matches on you tube from the 70s are great….especially as I was a Leeds united fan then lol.

53569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 2, #399 of 996 🔗

Remember the Windies at their entertaining best? Courtney Walsh, Curtly Ambrose, Richie Richardson, the great Jeffrey Dujon and that incredible catch


Viv Richards.

Those were the days

53576 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 1, #400 of 996 🔗

Thanks for the clip, wendyk. Have to say I got into cricket for not entirely pure reasons 😉

53579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 1, #401 of 996 🔗

Me too!!

53584 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, #402 of 996 🔗

Well, we’re only human! I thought the (sadly late) Graham Dilley was an absolute god! (Sorry, eveyone else, a bit flippant, but need a bit of a laugh during these ‘difficult times’).

53672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to kh1485, 1, #403 of 996 🔗

Alan Knott and Derek (Deadly) Underwood were my heroes as a young Man of Kent, well boy of Kent 😄

53650 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to wendyk, #404 of 996 🔗

Good yes, but not a patch on Wes Hall and Charlie Griffiths days. But then you need to be quite old to appreciate that era.

53548 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 2, #405 of 996 🔗

Funnily enough I saw Botham play for Scunthorpe against Port Vale in either 84 or 85 during one of his spats with the establishment!

53620 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnB, #406 of 996 🔗

good quiz question .. name the three England captains that played for Scunny

53570 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stefarm, 1, #407 of 996 🔗

I saw him in Bath back in the 80s

53537 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to anti_corruption_tsar, 1, #408 of 996 🔗

It is BBC, got to follow the narrative or you’re gone!

54104 ▶▶▶▶▶ chris c, replying to JohnB, #409 of 996 🔗

The batsman’s Holding, the bowler’s Willey”

never happen today

53541 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 1, #410 of 996 🔗

Too much money to be lost from his central contract, IPL, and sponsors to do that.

53596 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to JohnB, #411 of 996 🔗

Yep, I twigged that as soon as I hit post comment.

53440 elsvan, replying to elsvan, 6, #412 of 996 🔗

I posted the link to the article on Masks in a Facebook discussion, and got an amazing response from a microbiologist based in Austrialia, asking me to “stop posting stupid links”, and then going on about how only someone who understands statistics, causality and correlation could possibly understand any scientific paper (making it very clear that I could not possibly have that understanding); also that Covid-19 is a horrible disease and if only I knew I would definitely put a mask on. I tried repeatedly to get her to come up with facts and/or other links; then she moved on to the old trope of “special interest groups” and “hidden agendas”. I’m pretty sure she was trying to hint all Lockdown Sceptics are rabid anti-vaxxers, however she didn’t have quite the guts to come out with that. The conversation fizzled out when I kept asking for details and also pointing out that a courteous discussion would address the content, not just lazy assumptions. Fascinating experience.

53533 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to elsvan, 4, #413 of 996 🔗

I’m an anti-vaxxer, at least for the Covid-19 variety. Bring on the ad hominem attacks. Argument these days seems to consist of categorising you so that you can be ignored or cancelled.

53441 HelenaHancart, 3, #414 of 996 🔗

Can I throw a curveball? I actually think the mask enforcement is so they can experiment with facial recognition technology. Apparently it doesn’t need to use the whole face. On another note I wrote my local (Conservative) MP yesterday a strongly worded letter on thoughts of compulsory muzzles and the effect it would have on our already delicate and diminishing economy of our dying town. It will probably go straight to bin but its on record and its another push of defiant energy in their direction. Also I’ve made a beast of a tin foil muzzle, already to go, that I can produce if a bleating bedwetter calls me out. I can assure that we’ll all be protected by it!

53442 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #415 of 996 🔗

New Jargon alert: vaccine may give “double protection”.

Human trials of a potential Covid-19 vaccine being developed by scientists in Oxford are reported to have shown promising results.

Researchers believe they have made a breakthrough after discovering the jab could provide “double protection” against the virus, the Daily Telegraph reported.


53444 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 3, #416 of 996 🔗

I saw a fairy at the bottom of our garden this morning.

53466 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to RickH, 1, #417 of 996 🔗

Well, they have special protection nowadays!

53447 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 2, #418 of 996 🔗

Any idea what “double protection” means?

53459 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Julian, 2, #419 of 996 🔗

2 condoms

53471 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 1, #420 of 996 🔗

No John. Guess vaguely from the back of the pub quizz T cell funtion for the masses becomes double protection.

All I know is I am thinking about installing second seat belts in our car.

53449 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 1, #421 of 996 🔗

It’s going the same way as men’s razors. It is a marketing tool!

53469 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #422 of 996 🔗

Double protection is pants triple protection is where it’s at.
Translans lates to me as belts and braces. But for the ipad using generation. Have no idea but will be linked to some vague idea about T cells massaging antibodies to out perform themselves by an ‘expert’ in the next installment of Croronafarce.

53478 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Basics, 1, #423 of 996 🔗

belts and braces

And a piece of string in your pocket. Just in case…..

53461 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Basics, 1, #424 of 996 🔗

Does ‘double protection’ actually mean anything? Does that mean it’s twice as effective as a normal dose? Or will it protect against two instances of exposure to the virus and then be ineffective? Again, marketing bollox. May as well be a slogan for a pack of condoms.

53536 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Basics, 1, #425 of 996 🔗

The best a man can get?

53542 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 1, #426 of 996 🔗

Sounds like they’re working on new toothpaste.

53448 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 7, #427 of 996 🔗

The scapegoating of Asians in Leicester and elsewhere disgusts me. They are simply a soft target. If HMG is so concerned about people working under minimum wage, why didn’t they deal with it before? Why address it now in a period of economic crisis? As for splitting up households and re-homing them, it reminds me of what the USA did to their Japanese citizens during WW2.

53454 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bugle, 3, #428 of 996 🔗

They ignore it as it brings huge amounts of money into the economy, makes money for donors, and more than likely provides a tremendous amount of backhanders.

53463 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Bugle, 3, #429 of 996 🔗

Corruption in Vaztown, Who knew?

53616 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Bugle, 2, #430 of 996 🔗

It is not that they are a soft target . It is just that the additional outbreaks are being attributed to the Asian community and are arising because of certain circumstances that apply to those communities They have the same concerns(??) about Blackburn and Pendle and again it is specifically pointing to the BAME – i.e. Asian – communities there.
And why dont HMG address this? .. It is the same reason as usual – no politician wants to accuse an Asian community of anything because they fear that any comment will be shouted down as racist . So in Leicester the local council have turned a blind eye to sweat shops – as the authorities have turned a blind eye to other activities elsewhere in the past

53765 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to mjr, #431 of 996 🔗

I don’t disagree that the law is applied selectively, and I deplore that. But in the case of Leicester, I find it remarkable that the pretext for locking down was so transparently contrived and then, lo and behold, “Sweatshops! Look everybody! Slave labour! Oh no! Overcrowding! Multi-generation households!” Everybody knows these things go on, yet HMG only drew attention to them as justification for their evidence-free lockdown. Positive tests are not ‘cases’.

People who would have been up in arms if this had been done to a predominantly white city have been quite happy to blame Asians for their way of life, hence they are a soft target.

53455 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #432 of 996 🔗

Begum who in past times would have been hung for treason: is being returned to the UK to massacre the legal aid budget and live on benefits for the rest of her days

Pity the rest of us don’t have any rights

53462 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 7, #433 of 996 🔗

Boris you truly are a shithouse

53585 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Cecil B, 2, #434 of 996 🔗

The problem with this case is that she is just one of many, yet is being singled out to have her citizenship revoked.
She should be dealt with here in an appropriate manner.

53456 Bella, replying to Bella, 7, #435 of 996 🔗

Whilst we focus for a little while on ‘Johnson the Just (stupid)’ I thought I might do a little service by posting this article written before he became Prime Minister just to remind ourselves what a lying oaf he is and why he has made such a hash of this. I particularly like the observation: ‘Johnson – the very rich, very cosseted son of immense privilege – sees himself as the main character in a film in which everyone else is an extra.’


53475 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella, 7, #436 of 996 🔗

Indeed. A mouthy narcissist whose only talent is lying (and lying on his back) becomes PM – and fulfils his destiny by lying to the whole nation. Big time.

Well. What a surptise.

53472 Mark, replying to Mark, 25, #437 of 996 🔗

Understanding the coronapanic zealots, and why they are so vicious towards dissenters.

As with so much about the coronapanic, it all begins with fear. Fear is a useful human tool when it is under conscious control, but a devastating prison for those controlled by it. It is an old truth that there is nothing cowardly about feeling fear – the coward is the man who allows that fear to control his behaviour.  A man ruled by fear is a prisoner.

Coronapanic zealots do not hate you for the noble sounding reasons they give out for public consumption and to reassure their own consciences – because you are supposedly selfish, supposedly putting lives at risk, or even because you are supposedly threatening their own lives. They hate you because you are free, and they are not.

The hatred they feel is directed towards those who do not wear masks, because not wearing a mask is a public mark of that freedom from fear, just as wearing the mask advertises one’s conformity to the general fearfulness.

How you respond to them is up to you – legitimate and justifiable responses would range from pity for them, through resentment at their bitter hostility and profoundly damaging behaviour, to well-founded hatred of the bullying cowardice they represent and the political tyranny they enable. Choose the one that suits your ethics and your situation.

Pity can be justified if you accept that in many cases they are mere victims of the disgraceful propaganda to which we have all been subjected, as a society. But an adult has some responsibility for the formation of his own opinions, and many of the worst of the zealots are far from helpless illiterates. And remember, you can continue to pity them until the end, but many of them will still happily report you to the state enforcers, petition your employer to sack you, and ultimately clap the state thugs marching you off to a camp for “re-education”. Because that’s what cowards do to people who expose their own inadequacy.

53527 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, -8, #438 of 996 🔗

Mark is absolutely right that the irrational fear whipped up by this government is something to be treated with disdain. And his analysis of the reasonable range of responses is spot on. An interesting social experiment is about to occur: the white educated middle class who decline to wear masks finding themselves treated in public with the same alarm, suspicion, and in the worst case, name calling and aggression routinely visited on BAME people.

53753 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, 1, #439 of 996 🔗

Well I can respect the cleverness of the response, if not the cynical dishonesty. but I do recognise that you regard my opinions and therefore me as not just wrong but evil, and therefore fair game. Can’t say it troubles me greatly. You are far from the first and won’t be the last.

53589 ▶▶ DownWithBedwetters, replying to Mark, 1, #440 of 996 🔗

There’s a lot more psychology involved in this situation than many people seem to realise.

And it always seems to be the same groups of people taking sides. Right-brain dominated (creative, emotional, hard-of-thinking) against left-brain dominated (logical, fact-oriented).

Dr Edward Dutton has some fascinating theories on the subject, essentially that reduction in infant mortality and introduction of welfare have allowed the less-suited to have an increased voice in society.

53755 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to DownWithBedwetters, 2, #441 of 996 🔗

Dr Edward Dutton has some fascinating theories on the subject, essentially that reduction in infant mortality and introduction of welfare have allowed the less-suited to have an increased voice in society .”

A lot of tricky questions there to do with nature/nurture and other controversial issues, as well as culture and class, but the basic thesis that our society is far less capable of dealing with issues like this seems clearly true.

53916 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DownWithBedwetters, #442 of 996 🔗

‘hard-of-thinking’ my Aunt Fanny.

53473 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 24, #443 of 996 🔗

Just returned from Tesco. As others have mentioned, the arrows have gone (yipee) but loads of mask wearers (groan). Anyway, I went round and it was almost as normal. I even got to a checkout with relative ease.

But I want to say a special and heartfelt thank you to the lovely lady on the till. She spoke to me as though she were speaking to a … human being. And then, when I asked if Tesco would be enforcing the mask stuff, she said that she thought that those with asthma would be exempt. I asked if she would be forced to wear one and she said she hoped not because she thought they were a waste of time (“why now?”). She sort of hesitated in a “I may be speaking out of turn” way, but I told her she was preaching to the converted. I said she should check this site out. The look of relief on her face when she realised that she had found a fellow-sceptic was telling.

Thank you, kind lady in Tesco, you made my day!

53480 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to kh1485, 8, #444 of 996 🔗

Was a Tesco in a South Manchester suburb? I had a very similar conversation with a lady on Monday! Maybe because they’ve worked closely with the public from the start, shop workers are more pragmatic?

53490 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to T. Prince, 5, #445 of 996 🔗

Good to read you had a similar experience. Mine was in North West Essex.

I wasn’t sure which way it would go to be honest. It started with a fairly innocuous conversation about spring onions but, hey, I would have been happy with that! So the lockdown-scepticism was a bonus.

53591 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to kh1485, 11, #446 of 996 🔗

Once you start talking to people, it’s amazing how many of them are sceptics but are just too scared to put forward their point of view in case they are shot down by others.
I’ve just had a conversation with an 80 year old friend who I was sure would be a lockdown zealot, as he and his wife are always straight down the line with everything. To my surprise, he thought the whole thing had been an utter disaster. He and his wife were out visiting tea rooms and coffee shops and were getting together with their whole family for a holiday soon. How wrong can you be about someone?-he’s a lifelong diabetic too

53477 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #447 of 996 🔗

Hancock to give an emergency coronavirus statement at 5pm. Is this about Leicester lockdown or something else?

53483 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #448 of 996 🔗

I do wonder how there can be an emergency when there were zero deaths in English hospitals at the beginning of the week and none in Scotland for some days.

53628 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #449 of 996 🔗

Same way there is still a deadly pandemic when there isn’t.

53485 ▶▶ John P, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #450 of 996 🔗

TT, I’ve seen this described elsewhere as an “important statement”.

53487 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, 4, #451 of 996 🔗

PS: I won’t be watching.

53513 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to John P, 5, #452 of 996 🔗

Nor me. Can’t stand the sight of him.

53495 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 1, #453 of 996 🔗

Have your Leicester contacts got any insights, over and above the mayor’s latest comments?

53499 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #454 of 996 🔗

The mayor, Sir Peter Soulsby has been very critical of the local lockdown.

My understanding is that the city is relatively relaxed at the moment. The lockdown has not been as tight as the original one. There is a fair amount of traffic on the roads, but of course, pubs and “non essential” shops are not open. There is no special muzzle restriction in place.

A recent quote from the Telegraph:

The Mayor of Leicester has revealed his frustration at the Government’s “blanket political-led lockdown” of the whole of the city.

Also, the local newspaper:


53510 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to John P, 1, #455 of 996 🔗

Thanks. So Hancock’s statement could be in response to this, although Sky seems to be suggesting it is unrelated. We will see (no doubt leaked to the Telegraph after lunch!)

53486 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 21, #456 of 996 🔗

Hopefully he’ll be resigning

53489 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Cecil B, 3, #457 of 996 🔗

All I can add is a simple uptick!

53491 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cecil B, 3, #458 of 996 🔗

If only!

53514 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Cecil B, 1, #459 of 996 🔗

Ha ha!

53555 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Cecil B, 2, #460 of 996 🔗

We wish!

53559 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #461 of 996 🔗

Perhaps he’s changing his pink tie for a different colour and wants us to clap enthusiastically. Or make more announcements on muzzles.

53581 ▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #462 of 996 🔗

It’ll be something to do with a victory over Eurasia, or an increase to the chocolate ration.

53612 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #463 of 996 🔗

Do you think they might try claiming an Ebola-like organic matter has been found blooming in lakes and ponds somewhere in the north?

53625 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #464 of 996 🔗

This won’t be good.

53714 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #465 of 996 🔗

Emergency?! He does love his time in the spotlight, doesn’t he. I would guess it will be something about Leicester, or the next place he’s decided to put into lockdown.

53769 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to A. Contrarian, #466 of 996 🔗

Is he Boris’s attack dog, or is he just out of control? Or has he threatened to dish the dirt if sacked?

53481 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #467 of 996 🔗

Just got back a FOI request from one of the local councils.

Few interesting answers but they:

– only use central government guidance, no research themselves
– they have done no risk assessments themselves
– they never mention the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 even though all Statutory Instruments are supposed to be subsidiary to this as this legislation is the one the government says all the restrictions and S.I.s are supplementary to
– they keep mentioning health and safety legislation which the council have no real powers to use to put restrictions onto businesses, it is down to the individual business to do their own risk assessment and initiate their own restrictions as they see fit

basically they are overstepping their power under the wrong legislation or trying to impose restrictions by circumventing the correct legislation then browbeating businesses and people into believing they have this powerB

A few of the interesting answers (my comments etc in highlights/italics):

1. “Guidance” and “advice” are not legally enforceable and does not have to be followed. The
Government has reiterated this in the past week in their legal reply to the Judicial Review request by
Simon Dolan and his legal representatives Wedlake Bell as part of their defence on school
In the list of further information websites listed at the bottom of the Telford and Wrekin document I
downloaded 10 of the 12 websites have the word “guidance” in the title. 1 is for posters that mislead
the reader that social distancing and other restrictions are mandatory and 1 is a list of frequently
asked questions
With this in mind please state what piece of legislation or legal basis your are using to force retailers
and other businesses to either implement the “guidance” or to stay closed if they cannot meet the
listed “guidance” as per the checklist?

Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 (for business
closure) Health & Safety at Work etc Act 1974 and Management of Health and Safety at Work
Regulations 1999 for social distancing

councils don’t have the powers under these acts to restrict businesses under these acts once the government said open again so the answer is a bit misleading

2. Was a risk assessment used to generate the guidelines you issued? Please supply the risk
No risk assessment produced – so what are they basing it all on?

3. What “science”, Government backed or independent, was researched to generate the risk
assessment on which the checklist is based if the answer was “yes” to point 2? Please supply the
research and the evidence.
Please follow the link below:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/working-safely/risk-assessment.htm business should not use someone else’s generic risk assessment and certainly not one where the science and research is not supplied to prove the mitigations are correct

4. The Government and the National College of Policing have both stated on numerous occasions that
social distancing is not law, nor is it legally enforceable in England. Social distancing also has no
basis in science, cannot be backed up by science and was plucked out of thin air using no evidence
whatsoever as stated by Professor Dingwall.
With this in mind, please state what piece of legislation or legal basis your are using to force retailers
and other businesses to abide by social distancing “guidelines” as if it has force of law?
Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 and Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations

business should not use someone else’s generic risk assessment and certainly not one where the science and research is not supplied to prove the mitigations are correct

5. The Government and the National College of Policing have both stated on numerous occasions that
social distancing is not law, nor is it legally enforceable in England. Social distancing also has no
basis in science, cannot be backed up by science and was plucked out of thin air using no evidence
whatsoever as stated by Professor Dingwall.
With this in mind, please state what piece of legislation or legal basis your are using to install street
signs, pavement markings and so on that misrepresent social distancing to be law? Were the words
“if possible”, “guidance only” or similar included in the signage?
For details, visit – https://www.gov.uk/guidance/safer-public-places-urban-centres-and-greenspaces-

not based on any law, just the centrally issued guidance so again a misleading answer

53605 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #468 of 996 🔗

Mr A Git. Your findings need to be ‘amplified across the internet’ to use the phraseology of today. UK Column would be exceptionally interested in your findings and understanding.

53623 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 2, #469 of 996 🔗

Given the correspondence to UKColumn, Simon Dolan, Toby, laworfiction, the FSB and BBPA, clubs.magazines I subscribe to and the local press.

Simon and laworfiction answered.

FSB, BBPA, Clubs/magazines and the media no answer so I assume they are not interested in letting their members know they are being lied to.

Might try and send it to the bosses of Marstons and Wetherspoons as they seem to be the only companies fighting back.

53730 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, #470 of 996 🔗

I don’t know anything about the Pub industry but these umbrella groups might be a way of getting the information some attention. SIBA seem perhaps the best of tge three having an urgent help required statement on first glance.


53745 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 1, #471 of 996 🔗

beerandpub is the British beer and Pub Association, contacted them twice, no reply.

I’ll fire off something to then others to try and spread the word.

53484 IanE, replying to IanE, 10, #472 of 996 🔗
53710 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to IanE, 1, #473 of 996 🔗

A less inspiring article from the same paper today:
Though this paragraph (hope it’s OK to post here, it’s only a fraction of the article) does appear to have a sceptical tone to it if you read carefully:
For better or worse, neither West nor East will tolerate a resurgence in infections; they will hunker down again. There is apparently no other plan, no hope until we get a vaccine or cure. This über risk-averse approach will also apply to any major new virus: social distancing, masks and home-working are bound to be reintroduced each time a new infectious disease appears anywhere in the world, and even during significant flu seasons .” –
Are people really going to take this hyper-risk-averse attitude once the economic impact really starts to hit home?

53493 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #474 of 996 🔗

I think this says it all:

Questioning the reasoning behind face coverings, Mr Johnson told The Telegraph: “I think it is more about trying to reassure those scared witless people that it is safe to go outside, it’s safe to go to shops.

However, he immediately goes on to say:

“I think it acts as a constant reminder to everyone that this disease is taking over our lives and it continues to reinforce the obsession and hypochondria around one single illness to the detriment of every other aspect of life.”

Remarkably honest of you for a change Boris!

53497 ▶▶ Johet, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #475 of 996 🔗

I think you’ll find this comment may well have come from Luke Johnson former chair of Pizza Express rather than Boris. The article has used his comments from the podcast Planet Normal.

53498 ▶▶ djc, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #476 of 996 🔗

That is so contradictory, even for a a brain damaged Boris.
The ‘scared witless’ need to be reminded at every opportunity that normal life goes on, that they are the odd people. they should not be pandered to.

53502 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #477 of 996 🔗

My worry about people actually seeing the light is that a society dim enough to put Johnson in charge in the first place has a high proportion of evidence-immune dimwits.

53507 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #478 of 996 🔗

Is this for real? That’s just plain screwing with all our minds. Just when one thought it couldn’t get any madder…

53526 ▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to stewart, 2, #479 of 996 🔗

See above, it’s Luke Johnson, not Boris

53534 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Cbird, 3, #480 of 996 🔗

Ah… oops.

53554 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #481 of 996 🔗

That was said by Luke Johnson of Pizza Express not Boris Johnson 😊

53508 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 8, #482 of 996 🔗

I’m tapping this out in Ireland. I learnt yesterday that pubs here aren’t to open now until August 10th – it was to be next week ( Is mór an trua é sin ). I checked this out this morn. There’s even worse news. Facemasks are to be made mandatory. Here’s the Taoiseach’s justification:

My Government and I have received very sobering advice from the National Public Health Emergency Team. The concern about the rise in the number of cases over recent weeks is very real.

The R number, which we have all become familiar with, has now risen above ‘1’ in this country.

And the international situation, with almost a million and a half cases reported in just the last week, represents a growing worry.

“A million and a half cases”! Sure in the Auld Sod there hasn’t been 26,000 cases in total.

The week beginning the 29th June the daily average number of cases was 13.4

The week beginning the 8th July the daily average number of cases was 20.3

Enough, I’d say, for any government to take a Corporal Jones’ response to decision making.

53516 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #483 of 996 🔗

60% of the pubs in my town will never open again after lockdown, some of them had been open for hundreds of years

When those that are left open I will not go in as buying a pint contributes tax to the Dictatorship

Will emigrate…… Hungary looking good at the moment

53517 ▶▶ paulito, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #484 of 996 🔗

It’s nuts Ned. I particularly like the perfectly logical, science based requirement of only being served alcohol if you spend 9 euro in Irish pubs. Spend 8.50 and risk dying of Covid.

53518 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to paulito, #485 of 996 🔗

Should have said spend 9 euro on food.

53543 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #486 of 996 🔗

Yet another politician following the same script, here are some more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVCqSbIRPH8 -will try and find other videos

So who is in charge?

53624 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to paulito, #488 of 996 🔗

It is NOT good news when the collection, reporting and dissemination of raw facts becomes subject to political control.

53678 ▶▶▶ paulito, replying to Bruno, #489 of 996 🔗

It’s good news when they put an end to it.

53512 JustMe, #490 of 996 🔗

Could we please have a list of the major supermarkets that have decided to not implement the new gagging order before July 24th?
Thank you.

53515 Bart Simpson, 13, #491 of 996 🔗

A follow on from my post last Saturday where Mr Bart and I had afternoon tea where we were treated like proper human beings, I would also like to extend a positive shout out to the staff of Jamaica Patty Co (Covent Garden) and Slim Chickens (Brunswick Square) for providing a sense of normality, courtesy and good old fashioned common sense during these insane times.

Also to my local dry cleaners – chatted to the woman who served me who is also a sceptic and has been avoiding the shops as she refuses all the hassle of queuing, compulsory sanitising and the whole lot.

53522 Phil Beckley, replying to Phil Beckley, #492 of 996 🔗

Has anyone else had the experience of the first piece of the last two Lockdown Sceptics appearing on the email but being cut when viewed outside the email? The two in question being the report from an NHS whistleblower on the last posting, and the piece on obtaining an exemption lanyard on this one?

53531 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Phil Beckley, 2, #493 of 996 🔗

The whistleblower’s claims could not be verified, so had no journalistic integrity – I assume this is why it was pulled. You can find it on David Icke’s site – whether it’s true or not I have no idea. I can’t help with the lanyard piece, I’m afraid.

53556 ▶▶▶ Phil Beckley, replying to Mr Dee, #494 of 996 🔗

Thanks for the info – I thought that might be the reason. I see the article about lanyards does appear on today’s article after all. I have found myself becoming a bit paranoid lately.

53583 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Phil Beckley, #495 of 996 🔗

The whistleblower article actually corresponds with a lot of anecdotal information I’ve received from the start of the Lockdown, and from a relative of mine who works in the NHS. If you haven’t read it, do so – but until an NHS whistleblower is brave enough to do a Snowden, it’s simply hearsay at the moment.

53523 ChrisDinBristol, 18, #496 of 996 🔗

I had a dream last night. Matt Hancock was mugged and duffed up on the street in broad daylight. When the police asked him “Can you identify your attacker?” he replied: “No, sorry officer, he was wearing a mask”. Then I woke up and realised it was a nightmare – waking up, that is, not the dream.

53524 stewart, replying to stewart, #497 of 996 🔗

Anyone know if updated IFRs are being published anywhere?

53595 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to stewart, 2, #498 of 996 🔗

This was in the Daily Wail yesterday (I know, not the greatest fact source):


The wording in the link has nearly nothing to do with the actual story:

Coronavirus R rate in England was LOWER than officials thought in May as huge government-funded study estimates average of 0.57 for the month after SAGE claimed it was between 0.7 and 1

53643 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #499 of 996 🔗

The thing is – there has been for some time plenty of evidence to counter the ‘panicdemic’ narrative – none of it is news Certainly, from the beginning of May (after the April spike), it was becoming clear that this was not an generally exceptional infectious event, and the early contrarians had been shown to be right in their analysis and prognosis.

Since then, the government has been busting a gut to perpetuate a myth that bears no scrutiny, aided by the mainstream media – a network in which proper investigative journalism has been replaced almost exclusively by a network of chatter between members of a chatterati that also includes the vast majority of the political class.

Nick Davies’s book ‘Flat Earth News’ is worth a read inthis context if you haven’t come across it. It predates this shambles by quite a few years, but is an admirable and prescient analysis of the emergence of what he calls ‘churnalism’.

53651 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to RickH, 1, #500 of 996 🔗

it needs to be demanded that the government provide regular updates on the estimated IFR.

They need to be forced to answer the question.

If we are all right here, and this is all a big over-reaction, then we must force the government to admit it. And the only way I can think of is to force them to make public and own the IFR figures.

Maybe Toby Young can help somehow to create pressure.

53660 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to stewart, 1, #501 of 996 🔗

The ONS do publish the IFR,:
Is this not what you are looking for?
Although it doesn’t cover care homes, dealt with in a separate study. Since the number of infections clocked is dependent on the number of tests done, I’m left wondering how anything but a random test of a total group is of any interest. By weird coincidence, I have today received a random invitation from DHSC to participate in a study:
reactstudy.org/antigenreg !

53706 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RickH, 1, #502 of 996 🔗

This is one of my favourite books ever and was a contributory factor in me leaving journalism. It’s 100% true. Every word. When I read it every breath I exhaled felt better and better – finally someone recognised the frustration I felt with my profession.

53740 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Farinances, #503 of 996 🔗

I trained as a journalist and left after six months – and that was thirty years ago.

53597 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, 1, #504 of 996 🔗

The estimated mean/median IFR rate seems to be settling at about 0.26%. But, of course, there is a massive age/comorbidity gradient in mortality that really can’t be ignored, such that it is sensible to look at data for those <65 to get a picture for the majority of the younger healthy population (<0.05%)

Then there is the problem of establishing true infection rates (which would probably push the calculated percentage downwards). In summary – this ‘pandemic’ isn’t even a notable epidemic now.

There is a recent paper at :


I can’t vouch for its validity.

53615 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to RickH, 5, #505 of 996 🔗

By this stage, the government should have a simple dashboard showing hospitalisations, deaths, cases, estimated total infections and estimated IFR.

If 4 months into the biggest crisis since WWII the government isn’t able to produce and share these basic metrics, then the crisis of public policy is even bigger and we are well and truly finished.

We should demand it.

53635 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to stewart, 3, #506 of 996 🔗

I suspect they don’t really care what the real figures are. They may or may not know them. If they do know them, they would certainly not want to publish them as it will expose the Big Lie.

I don’t think they regard this as a crisis any longer, but as an opportunity.

53637 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Julian, 1, #507 of 996 🔗

Sadly, I think you’re probably right about it their seeing it as an opprtunity.

53636 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, 1, #508 of 996 🔗

After this experience, I wouldn’t trust any data coming from government sources directly. I would be flying in the face of reason and swallowing propaganda.

However, there is a good independent substitute :


The data is consistently updated.

53607 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to stewart, 1, #509 of 996 🔗

Been reading this article this morning:


The SCFR (systematic case fatality rate) is about 0.004 by the analysis of CDC numbers if I understand it correctly.

Rate is being driven down by more testing showing more and more asymptomatic people being counted as a confirmed positive which makes the virus even less dangerous as more people infected but not dying giving a lower ratio – I can figure that much out quite quickly (realised this back in March) so why can’t the politicians and “experts” they listen to?

53633 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #510 of 996 🔗

This is all great. But what is really needed is for the government to own these figures. And for that to happen they need to publish them themselves.

We need to demand that they publish updated IFR estimates (by age group).

If they do, they will have much more trouble justifying their measures.

53613 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to stewart, #511 of 996 🔗

Found this while reading that article:


handy print off and keep guide.

53621 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Awkward Git, #512 of 996 🔗


53538 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #513 of 996 🔗

Sorry if posted before but very good interview with aggressive questions handled very efficiently

53562 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to swedenborg, 3, #514 of 996 🔗

Glad you are back, been missing your posts!

53544 Binra, 12, #515 of 996 🔗

To understand the masking edict you have to understand the thinking that drives the vaccine ‘imperative’ – I use this term to differentiate from vaccine choice as part of health freedom.

The thinking goes like this.
Vaccination is not once applied and forever protected. But requires periodic ‘boosters’ to maintain some measure of protection excepting in those who are vaccine resistant (are not protected).

Full protection seeks to either eradicate the virus from the Earth or limit it via the notion of herd immunity as a very high percentage of the population maintaining their vaccination status.

Just as a mask believed effective should be protection against the unmasked, a fully vaccinated person should be immune to the virus and to the unvaccinated – but the vaccination is only considered a full social protection when ninety something percent are up to date with the scheduled requirements.

To choose NOT to wear a mask/or vaccinate is therefore to be socially irresponsible – or as Gates coined it – a ‘baby killer’ – and in masking – the accusation is that of killing the old and the frail – as if lockdown itself is not achieving this already.

The underlying leverage is to undermine individual consciousness of free association and informed decision – which is the bedrock of any cultural human expression – for the subordination and sacrifice of individuality to imposed groupthink of an imagined or asserted collective – represented by victims that are weaponised to leverage guilt and call for punishment, invalidation or penalty of denial and exclusion from social acceptance or indeed status and permission to basic human freedoms – which are now to be allowed by the state only on condition of compliance with systematically regulated and enforced mandates – which may be presented as if a choice – but one which must be chosen to evade heavy penalty.

The issue of freedom and responsibility is at the core of our human experience.
The attempt to gain or boost freedom or life by dumping our consequence to scapegoated others is the mind of judgement and blame that operates power struggle by stealth and deceit in us all. But the scapegoating or demonising of human beings as viruses – (infection vectors) demanding a bio-security state to micro manage not only speech and behaviour but genetic expressions and its result represents an unprecedented human self-hatred, operating in place of connected and coherent thought, feeling and response.

Fear and hatred are always found together – along with grievance and vengeance.
Blind reactive conditioning operates exactly like an A.I system running as a self-destructive loop to the ones it was originally invoked to protect.

The mask in itself is a prop for whatever play anyone assigns it, you can give and hold the meanings you choose to give, but in its imposition by a corporately captured state mandate it operates as a legal placeholder for further mandates that override and erase individual consciousness to conditioned or normalised compliance.

There is no dialogue with such a ‘mind set’ in intent to deny, but nor need we respond to the masking presentation of a human being in place of the human being.

To give authority to a masking lie in return for the power of its protection against feared and ‘contagious’ truth is to choose to die while alive as a self set in isolation from feared exposure to an intimacy of being that undoes self-illusion as the possession of control.

Who told you (that) you were naked?

53560 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 23, #516 of 996 🔗

I voted for the Monster Raving Loony party in the last election, and my suspicion is that they would currently be doing a better job of handling this ‘crisis’ than the Cowboys and Indians we call ‘Conservative’ who have squandered all the good will they were afforded when voted in. We were told Brexit would break Britain, but C19 has done the job quite adequately even as we hope for a clean break from the EU come next year. I can’t stand to see the country being coerced into these abnormal patterns of behaviour. As a life-long sufferer of contamination centred OCD it has been an enormous test of will for me to deal with the constant admonishments to wash hands and use anti-bac sprays. It’s such a joke that the things i used to worry about and the behaviours i engaged in previous to having gotten my thought patterns under control over the last few years are now being pushed in my face everywhere i go. Fuck you Boris and your technicoloured dream cabinet of big money funded stooges, fuck you NHS and the zomby admiration you have elicited for your negation of basic health-care principles. I’m not going to have my hard work ruined because you are incapable of proportionality in your assessments of the risk to public health posed by this low quality Chinese bio-hazard.

//venting over

53608 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Edgar Friendly, 14, #517 of 996 🔗

I am seeing a major rise in mental ill-health associated with anxiety and loss of control.

The psycho-warriors in the SAGE sub-group have a lot to answer for.

53567 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 2, #518 of 996 🔗

Has anyone got an evidence relating to Hancock saying ‘deaths in retail workers are 75% higher than the rest of the country’? i.e. it being a lie?

I need to counter someone who just posted the related article from the Metro + is claiming it’s accurate

53586 ▶▶ matt, replying to kbeanie, 3, #519 of 996 🔗

Numbers were posted yesterday by (I think) skipper, or possibly Sylvie.

It does seem to be true in terms of numbers per thousand of the working age population, but the numbers themselves are so small that it’s as likely to be a statistical anomaly as a demonstration of causation, as far as I can see.

53603 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to matt, #520 of 996 🔗

You would have to control for known related factors – such as income level, and then state error margins for this to have any semblance of significance.

… and then you would have to do the most neglected statistical operation of all : evaluate the *real world* significance.

53644 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, #521 of 996 🔗

I think it is “statistically significant”. I’ve just posted my reply in the forums. Hopefully a really dry thread about statistics will be a good way to get the ball rolling 🙂

53733 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, #522 of 996 🔗

Can you link to the specific forum, I’d like to read a really dry thread about statistics ?

53794 ▶▶▶ Brian D, replying to matt, #524 of 996 🔗

Peter Hitchens posted a good analysis of this statistic on his Mail on Sunday page/blog

53600 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to kbeanie, 3, #525 of 996 🔗

Hancock is technically correct. Male shopworkers’ death rate as of 26 June was 34.2 per 100K of the overall working age population rate of 19.
Female shopworker rate – 15.7 i.e. 162% of 9.7.
But total shopworker deaths in 3 month period:
M 43
F 64
So not so scary!

53602 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 1, #526 of 996 🔗

Sorry, too late to edit, but male rate of 34.2 is (obviously) 175% of 19.

53606 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bruno, 2, #527 of 996 🔗

And as someone pointed out earlier, the nascent panic in Blackburn is about 60 ‘cases’ out of 150,000 people.

53627 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bruno, 2, #528 of 996 🔗

If you look in detail at the figures you will see that the average for people who actually work seems higher than the average for working age, possibly because people like students haven’t died so pull the average down.


There are lots of occupations above the average, and lots that are “worse” than shop workers

The numbers are all so small as to be statistically meaningless

Using those figures the way he did is utterly reprehensible

53674 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Julian, #529 of 996 🔗

Thank you, I remembered you’d done a much better analysis but couldn’t find it!

53571 Peter Thompson, 3, #530 of 996 🔗

Much will be made by the followers of the cult and the BBC of BMA support for universal mask usage.They did an on line poll of members which attracted a reponsse of 5000 ie a turnout of 7 % of which 85 % were in support of face masks in enclosed public spaces and 15 % against. Using the remainer / leaver logic of turnouts you could actually say that only 5 % of BMA members were in favour of face nappies.

The BMA committee voted 32 to 3 in favour . It is a political juju with no evidence base . This is the same committee that refused to publish any pro Brexit papers in the BMJ as it would ” lead to unnecessary deaths. “

53575 Hoppy Uniatz, 3, #531 of 996 🔗

I note that the twerp writing in the Grauniad is about to eat “1 white chocolate flapjack the size and weight of a brick,” although spikes in blood sugar are strongly correlated with poor Covid outcomes. But he’s wearing a bit of fabric over his face, so that’s OK

53592 Edna, replying to Edna, 15, #532 of 996 🔗

My husband and I were talking earlier about the whole Covid/lockdown situation over a cup of coffee (he was on his coffee-break ha ha) and we agree on why we think this is happening, not just in the UK but also in many other countries. The internet and social media. Or, rather, the way (we presume) governments undoubtedly get data and statistics from social media use.

They probably get information every day on the ‘trending’ topics and the thoughts of everyone who uses a social media platform. And they use this data to determine policy direction. But being such idiots, they don’t seem to realise that those views are of the minority of the population. I have no idea what percentage of the population uses Facebook for instance, but I’m sure I read recently that only a tiny percentage of the UK (3%??) uses Twitter. And we think this is why all the polls and pundits got it wrong about the referendum, about Brexit and about last December’s general election.

If the government did the opposite of whatever that data tells them, then they might actually do what the majority wants!

Well, we live in hope…

53617 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Edna, 6, #533 of 996 🔗

Social media has definitely not helped. And yes, it seems largely full of nutters, present company excepted.

53618 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Edna, 2, #534 of 996 🔗

I wish that were so but there are a lot of Twitter users in the UK according to this site:

Almost 18 million, but I suspect that many of them are dormant accounts or hardly used.

53629 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to DressageRider, 3, #535 of 996 🔗

I have two. I’ve never touched either.

53631 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to DressageRider, 1, #536 of 996 🔗

I can’t be doing with Twitter, although I do have an account. It seems nigh on impossible to stop all that jerking as you’re trying to scroll through the tweets. it’s bloody infuriating.

53665 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Edna, 3, #537 of 996 🔗

Both the Clinton and Blair administrations used focus groups mostly selected from swing/key constituencies to drive government policy and rhetoric. Initially, this was very successful for both governments, but then led to a serious hollowing out of their respective bases.

It could well be that we’re seeing an evolution of the same concept, and likely with a similar result.

53703 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Edna, 6, #538 of 996 🔗

Yep. The true virus is the media. In all senses of the word.
Interesting how the MSM and social media now seem to bolster and amplify each other. – it was supposed to be the other way around.

53708 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Edna, 3, #539 of 996 🔗

Definitely, it’s a social media pandemic.

53619 swedenborg, 3, #540 of 996 🔗

Why do pandemics stop although the majority would be susceptible? Nothing new, look at Hope-Simpson’s report about Asian flu 1958

53622 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #541 of 996 🔗

Face masks: uncomfortable, unnatural, unnecessary. But has their imposition on the sheeple of England gifted that odious woman north of the border the biggest opportunity yet in her quest to split up the United Kingdom? The disease has all but disappeared in Scotland – no deaths for a week, and new cases per day mostly now in single digits. Hopefully it won’t be too long before Krankie can follow St Jacinda onto that dance floor. And at that point she’ll announce, “we’ve won”. Ostensibly she’ll be addressing the victory over Wuhan flu, but what she’ll really be referring to is the victory over Bunter and the English. Her underlying message will be “We’ve got rid of Wuhan flu before you did. Look, we’ve had no new cases or deaths for three weeks, so social distancing and mask wearing can cease from tomorrow. You lot south of the border are still treating your fellow citizens as though they’re walking blobs of bio-hazard material. Aren’t we brilliant! Wouldn’t we be better off on our own, freed from the yoke of English imperialism?”. What might our glorious leader do to pre-empt this inevitable situation? How about abandoning antisocial distancing and muzzles forthwith?

53652 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Tenchy, 3, #542 of 996 🔗

Ok – let’s see her publish her prospectus. The financial section will be very interesting.

53685 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, #543 of 996 🔗

Do you really think that once cases have disappeared from Scotland for a period of time that mask wearing and social distancing will cease? If you’re right, I might move to Scotland instead of Sweden.

53729 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, #544 of 996 🔗

Not going to happen.

53760 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, 1, #545 of 996 🔗

No it’s not going to happen. The only question is what the story will be to keep her cult and assorted unfortunate others in continued purgatory.

53626 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #546 of 996 🔗

On the aesthetic of masks. People look to my eye to be walking around with a ‘face-grabber’ from the film Alien.

Seeing many families with 6-10 yr olds wearing masks on around town. This I find most disturbing.

53649 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 8, #547 of 996 🔗

It is, in fact, unwitting child abuse – as is the whole Scary Fairy narrative as it has impacted on children and schools.

In the days of the unknown, we operated our own caution (which should always have been the standard). It’s now some time since we actually got back to normal in the wider family (sometime in May, I think as we de-programmed others), but we were both disturbed by the way in which initially our grandchildren flinched away when they came ‘too’ close.

The good news is that we soon corrected the psychological damage that had been done to them. But I cannot forgive the perverted motives of this government in institutionalising this child abuse.

53661 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 2, #548 of 996 🔗

Even Chris Evans is wearing one of these

comment image

53731 ▶▶ gina, replying to Basics, 1, #549 of 996 🔗

On the aesthetics of masks. To me appear as Fetish gear – inappropriate in a public space.

53630 grammarschoolman, replying to grammarschoolman, 6, #550 of 996 🔗

I hope, Toby, that you’ll be covering the disgraceful Jofra Archer affair: man gets publicly shamed and sacked from his lucrative job for briefly going home.

53723 ▶▶ Bella, replying to grammarschoolman, 2, #551 of 996 🔗

Yes, he’s apparently put everyone in danger, imagine that. (If it’s that bloody dangerous why are they playing cricket? I despair of the intellectual pygmies in the media.)

53910 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to grammarschoolman, #552 of 996 🔗

I think he’s only been dropped for this game. If he’s been sacked it’s outrageous considering that Stokes was only suspended.

53632 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 18, #553 of 996 🔗

Lockdown ‘should be lifted in 90% of Leicester’

“The Department of Health and Social Care previously said it “makes no apology” for trying to reverse infection rates.”

Oh but you should – you should get on your knees and grovel to every man, woman and child in Leicester who you terrorised with your decisions.

53639 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #554 of 996 🔗

Aren’t they ‘cases’ and not ‘infections’ as the people testing positive are mostly asymptomatic?

But then again, ‘infection’ sounds so much scarier than ‘case’.

53719 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cicatriz, 6, #555 of 996 🔗

They are not even ‘cases’ unless there is medical intervention, they are tests positive. Was anyone ever a ‘case’ if the took to their bed with a bad cold or flu?

53659 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #556 of 996 🔗

They should apologise to Leicester and they should explain to the whole country what has been found out here in terms of testing showing increased numbers and they should explain that there is nothing to fear. I find it so difficult to understand what the continued fear is for? It certainly feels political. I so hope that major retailers stand up to the face mask laws. I would head to any shop which does this just to show support and strength of feeling.

53638 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #557 of 996 🔗

Medical chief ‘not a face mask sceptic’ Chief Medical Officer Dr Frank Atherton said he would not describe himself as a sceptic on the benefits of face coverings.
He told the daily coronavirus news briefing: “Everybody who’s looked at the evidence has basically concluded that there is weak evidence of a small effect” on coronavirus transmission.
Answering questions from journalists, Dr Atherton said Wales had perhaps set a “higher bar” than other countries “in terms of asking the questions about whether face coverings would be both necessary and proportionate”.
He said the virus “really is transmitting in very low amounts now in Wales” so the “necessity is questionable”.
Three-layer face coverings will be mandatory on public transport in Wales from 27 July.
Wearing a face covering in shops and supermarkets in England is to become compulsory from 24 July, bringing it into line with Scotland.

53642 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mr Dee, 8, #558 of 996 🔗

Consider that statement: “‘Weak’ evidence of a ‘small’ effect.” That’s right, it probably doesn’t have any benefit, and if it does it’s not very much. That’s enough to make laws now.

Said it before, pascal’s wager.

53686 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Mr Dee, #559 of 996 🔗

Three layer!!! I hope the Welsh government is prepared to pay for them then.

53690 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #560 of 996 🔗

Is anyone actually going to check said face covering is 3 layers? I mean really?!!!

53640 Polemon2, 2, #561 of 996 🔗

Is it just coincidence that since the statement by Hancock in the Commons regarding facemasks, The media is overflowing with the issue of trade with China? Couldn’t be a diversionary tactic could it?

53641 Edna, 1, #562 of 996 🔗

I see Toby just shared this on Twitter. I downloaded it and it’s very interesting regarding herd immunity. Perhaps something to share with others?

53645 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 16, #563 of 996 🔗

From the government website, with added highlighting. Shame they can’t read, follow or promote, their own guidance.
Need one say more?

Staying safe outside your home
Updated 24 June 2020

Evidence suggests that wearing a face covering does not protect you . However, if you are infected but have not yet developed symptoms, it may provide some protection for others you come into close contact with.

Working safely during coronavirus (COVID-19)
From:Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy and Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport
Published:11 May 2020 Updated:10 July 2020,

There are some circumstances when wearing a face covering may be marginally beneficial as a precautionary measure. The evidence suggests that wearing a face covering does not protect you , but it may protect others if you are infected but have not developed symptoms.

It is important to know that the evidence of the benefit of using a face covering to protect others is weak and the effect is likely to be small, ….”

53653 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Polemon2, 4, #564 of 996 🔗

When do you think the government will publish this new scientific research, which disproves all the previous studies?

53654 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Steve Hayes, 5, #565 of 996 🔗

They will have to find some first!

53662 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #566 of 996 🔗

I can’t remember if it was Descarte who questioned the scientific method on the grounds that reproducability was presumptive as reality may be different in the past or future. Or some such philosophical, existential absurdity.

I never realised that the government had turned this into official policy.

53667 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Polemon2, #567 of 996 🔗

They’ll argue that any possible positive effect is worth it, regardless of how marginal it may be

53648 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 10, #568 of 996 🔗

I’ve just been reading about working-from-home addicts thinking up all sorts of reasons for not going back and doing it properly. The latest is squashing the second wave by not going back at all until next year. Seriously. From government, where else? Well, working from home is like preferring porn on your iPhone to taking part in the real thing. It’s hiding. It’s hiding from the sounds, smells, and heat of the real thing. It’s hiding from the subtle changes in mood and reaction from your fellow participants that lead you to change direction a bit yourself. It’s not a JOINT endeavour in real time any more. It’s like peering in through a pub window when you were a kid and wondering why your dad was so happy and laughing in the yellow light. And it’s proof of the adage that those who can – do, and those who can’t Zoom. Perfectly suited to the aforementioned government and public ‘service’.

53655 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James Leary #KBF, 5, #569 of 996 🔗

Cui bono? /Follow the Money:

Who benefits from the ‘Work at Home’ meme?

Who benefits from a vaccine for a generally mild infection?

Who benefits from the WHO slanting its guidance and undermining its previous assessments?

Rocket science, it ain’t.

53656 ▶▶ stewart, replying to James Leary #KBF, 17, #570 of 996 🔗

The government has opened a real pandora’s box.

Most people don’t like to work, they’ve been handed a perfect excuse not to and won’t let it go.

In the meantime, because the government forced the lockdown in the first place, it is trapped itself into propping up the economy by any means.

The government won’t fess up to overreacting, so it’s going to be a long painful struggle to get people back to proper work.

(They think masks will help them get people out, but it just visually reinforces the idea that the virus is super dangerous – I mean it must be if everyone has to wear a mask all the time, right? – they’ve really boxed themselves in.)

53664 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to stewart, 6, #571 of 996 🔗

Not only can they not fess up to over reacting; no matter how much more damage is caused to the economy and our health system, the government have to do everything in their power to negate any suggestion that the virus has died out because the country has developed herd immunity.

53668 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to James Leary #KBF, 2, #572 of 996 🔗

As someone who provides remote working solutions, I can tell you that we are currently snowed under with work at the moment, so much so that we’ve had to employ temporary workers for the increased demand.

All the companies and organisations I deal with that have moved to remote working are finding that their staff are getting more work done than ever and staff are happier, and most are now looking to close offices and permanently put in remote working solutions, or downsize premises for a reduce office staff.

There is actually a lot more cohesion than in the office too, I have noticed a big difference in people. I think this is down to less Micro-Management, and also the shorter days that people are having to work without having to commute so they’ve more energy.

This way of working is here to stay now, and it will only get more popular.

53675 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, #573 of 996 🔗

‘Nuff said 🙂

53712 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 3, #574 of 996 🔗

For me, I like being out of the road and meeting new and interesting people. At the moment with having to work from home, it’s all rather boring for me. Usually during the time I’d be in different towns and cities around the UK staying over in nice weather, playing golf at local courses, and trying local pubs and restaurants in the evening after work. Instead i’m stuck at home whilst the summer disappears!

53718 ▶▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to JohnB, #575 of 996 🔗

Sounds like my kind of job, far more interesting than being stuck in an office all day.

53754 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ambwozere, #576 of 996 🔗

Best career move I ever made, and no interfering micro mangers being a downer all the time.

53682 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to JohnB, 6, #577 of 996 🔗

A family member,who works for a large Swiss bank, has requested ,and been granted, permission to work from home permanently.

She has a specialised role as an analyst, is trusted by her boss, and is much happier: no commuting into central London on packed trains; savings on fares; more productive and generally much happier.

Of course bosses will benefit by reducing overheads while increasing productivity-at least in the highly paid specialised professional roles.

Unfortunately, none of this largesse will benefit those poorly paid workers who are keeping the country running like shop staff, delivery drivers, bin men, care assistants, taxi drivers and many others.

53692 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to JohnB, 2, #578 of 996 🔗

Improved productivity is probably a “Hawthorne Effect” and will decline in time.
Nevertheless I hope that home-workers are persuading their employers to pay for their telephone/broadband costs, additional heating costs, etc and adjusting their tax returns to allow for the use of their house as an office.

53707 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Polemon2, 2, #579 of 996 🔗

HMRC will be overrun with all the P87: Claim tax relief on work-related expenses claims they will be having to process at the end of the financial year!

53802 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to JohnB, #580 of 996 🔗

They need to follow the Irish example – employers can pay WFH employees €3.20/day tax free for WFH in lieu of having to submit expenses claims to the Revenue Commissioners at the end of the year. Mine has taken up the payment.

53771 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to JohnB, 2, #581 of 996 🔗

It really highlights the inequality for those of us who live in rural areas where the broadband is so slow that it is an obstacle to working from home. On a good day we have a download speed of around 1.5mb, upload about 0.7. Emailing is fine as long as no large attachments but you can forget about MS Teams or Zoom meetings. Oh and we have no mobile signal either!

53684 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to James Leary #KBF, #582 of 996 🔗

Depends a lot on what sort of work you’re trying to do. A lot of those engaged in analytical and scientific work have found it improved their work rate not to have to engage too much with other people’s moods, emotions, flare ups over car parking, disappearance of teaspoons, and the like.

53694 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Bruno, 4, #583 of 996 🔗

i.e being part of the human race.

53728 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to RickH, #584 of 996 🔗

Ha ha, yes. A better mix, so meet in person say weekly, might suit many though. And has been interesting how smaller businesses, which wouldn’t have used Teams, Webex, Skype before, have taken to Zoom to share documents and work together remotely.

53734 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, #585 of 996 🔗

One problem I do forsee with people working from home, is that you have to have a mechanism of switching off from work, and as a lot of people are new to home working they end up working a lot more hours but without realising it.

I have worked half the time from home, and the other half on the road for 10 years, and even when working from home I have the same routine as I would if I was going to a work place.

53739 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JohnB, #586 of 996 🔗

Absolutely true, and definitely takes a period of adjustment, hopefully with management support. And it’s really hard for young singles, even if living in a shared flat, they do need the social mixing.

53865 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, 1, #587 of 996 🔗

My wife hides my teaspoon … 🙁

53689 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to James Leary #KBF, 6, #588 of 996 🔗

As a public sector worker (further education) , having worked from home since end of March and with no end to this in sight, work seem to have this wonderous idea that support staff can work from home at least for the autumn term. And this was said in a meeting 4 weeks ago.

Personally whilst I like some of the advantages of working from home, no commuting be high on the list, I miss interaction with actual people face to face. Skype/teams calls are not the same at all. I can see working from home may become more normal if people want to do it but again this really should be a choice for each individual going forward.

53693 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to ambwozere, 1, #589 of 996 🔗

I agree, I’m glad my current job ends next month- no enjoyment at all anymore.

53699 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to James Leary #KBF, 7, #590 of 996 🔗

There’s obviously a balance that should be employed here. Most people actually couldn’t – and wouldn’t – work from home because it’s impossible (services, leisure, retail, entertainment, care etc. Etc.)
Other sectors are a question mark (teaching). I personally am gonna LMAO when many teachers end up being fired once they start all this part-time remote learning nonsense.
Others are a given. More or less any office job can be done from home and many people would love the option. That’s awesome for them but there are many others (myself included- single people without families mainly) who enjoy the daily in person interaction with other humans.

I fear for the future of our towns and cities. It was nice to have somewhere to go to socialise, work, shop and be around fellow human beings. Sadly if everyone works at home we can kiss this goodbye.

53721 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Farinances, 4, #591 of 996 🔗

I took back a previous job in a higher salary in February not because I like the work but to spend a year building up a dance workshop business alongside my normal job. Then crazy virus world arrived.

Dance and all the arts and entertainment industries can’t work from home, I’ve seen dance teachers lose their entire income overnight from this and even doing online classes they can’t recoup what they’ve lost in earnings. Some schools will not come back, the same with theatres.

So there should be a balance of working from home allowing the industries who can’t to carry on as normal.

53743 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to ambwozere, 1, #592 of 996 🔗

I’ve done both in my time, and am quite aware of some upsides to working in a cocoon. But I wouldn’t recommend it across the board.

And, as said – what is being damaged currently are working situations that are inimical to isolation. The Arts, Sport, ‘Hospitality’ and Entertainment sectors are above all social enterprises, and can’t function in an artificial environment most suited to hermits and individuals on the spectrum.

Have no doubt – these moves are not, in any case, about doing things better (for which reasonable, selective objective I have no qualms). They are about fragmenting social contact and breaking apart normal social structures.

Being one of the Old Fart Brigade – well past retirement age – I have no a priori investment in either side of this argument. But, having used ‘Zoom’ meetings as a substitute for normality in this present farce scenario , I know that such technological fixes bear no comparison with the subtleties real life interaction.

54054 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ambwozere, #593 of 996 🔗

Unfortunately I work in museums and heritage and working from home is nigh on impossible. Unless I can transport myself or be a hologram.

A friend of mine works in finance and security is a major concern hence why she doesn’t like working from home either. She’s also said more than once that on site, if she has a problem it can be solved quickly but with working from home the problems can drag on for days on end.

I know this might be controverisal but I like going to and from work – I read more when I commute, the people watching, the interaction and the sense of closure at the end of the day. I don’t think I can get that working from home.

53725 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, 3, #594 of 996 🔗

From the discussions I’ve been having with Schools I think a lot of the teaching is going to move onto the Google Education Platform in the not too distant future, so like you said a lot of teachers are going to end up out of work, as well as a lot of teaching assistants.

Like you I am missing the interaction of meeting people as I’m normally on the road.

I think that a lot of this could be the start of a push towards Smart Cities:


53746 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 4, #595 of 996 🔗

Bluntly – anyone who things technology a substitute, rather than an aid, to the process of teaching either (a) has an investment aim in sight or (b) is a bit dim.

53749 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 1, #596 of 996 🔗

Helps to push an ideology more easily. Have you ever seen BBC BItesize that kids are told to use to learn, extremely worrying!

53850 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, #597 of 996 🔗

It was GCSE Bitesize in my day and all the teachers used to call it GCSE Bullshit because it was terrible 😂

53904 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to RickH, #598 of 996 🔗

Imagine the data harvesting.

53677 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 12, #599 of 996 🔗

Completed my first bare faced boogy with my euan’sguide mask: made welcome, as usual, at greengrocer’s and zero waste shop.

Town very busy; people everywhere and lots of traffic.

Visited Morrison’s purely to gauge reaction to my badge: no one took any notice. 2 security blokes at door ignored my showing it to them and no one else reacted,apart from one woman who gave me a dirty look.

However, the atmosphere has changed since yesterday: notice at door-‘please wear face masks’; queue forming; absolutely no eye contact or acknowledgement of any kind; people i passed looked down or looked away.

I was the sole bare faced person in the entire busy shop.

This is definitely having a deleterious effect on behaviour: as I walked home along my road, young bloke who passed me looked down and then stepped off the pavement.

Very depressing and unfortunately I cannot see any improvement in the near future.

From now on, I shall stick to early morning shopping and walks-when the general ambience is almost normal.

53688 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendyk, 9, #600 of 996 🔗

Good for you, got my euan’s badge today but am not going to wear it. Fuck them, we are the normal people and sleep safe in the knowledge our lungs and conscience are clear.

👊 👊

53713 ▶▶▶ Fed up, replying to stefarm, 3, #601 of 996 🔗

Alternative suggestion: get one of the plastic visor masks, smear with snot-like substance, grin madly at everyone. A visible reminder to these in nappies what they are breathing into.

53817 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendyk, 6, #603 of 996 🔗

Just seen twat of the day walk past my front window. Man and a woman fully masked walking along carrying shopping bags, small retail park is about a 10 minute walk away, it’s a warm and humid day in Edinburgh and he looked knackered weighed down by shopping.

Stopped put his bags down, took his mask off, rung it out and then put it back on!!!

Unbelievable…..his Mrs was well impressed judged by her nod of approval.

Is that the work of a normal sane person???

53923 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to stefarm, 1, #604 of 996 🔗

These people are brain dead: mask-zombies.

I’ve noticed that many keep fiddling with the gags; pulling them down, adjusting them, and generally rendering the entire process utterly pointless: a bit like our lords, masters and mistresses.

The Great British IQ is alive and well!

54056 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, #605 of 996 🔗

Saw that today too – lots of touching, pulling, tugging, adjusting. One man even used his muzzle to wipe something off his nose! He would have been better off using a tissue and binning it.

53683 Solomon Cohen, #606 of 996 🔗

I’ve seen a constructive comment of mine not being approved for publishing here yesterday. I was only trying to say we should care more about each others problems.
Like you all started seeing masks as a problem when they have been made mandatory in England, but didnt care much about them in Scotland.

53698 MLibra, #607 of 996 🔗

Anyone following Dr Vernon Coleman?

53700 John B, replying to John B, #608 of 996 🔗

So I was a bit surprised to see that on 24th July the UK Government joined no other European countries (except for Scotalnd) – in imposing a ban on not wearing masks ‘

Compulsory in France from 01 August.

On a différent matter… how much of this is going on elsewhere?


53903 ▶▶ PaulParanoia, replying to John B, #609 of 996 🔗

Ditto, the Germans have had to ware masks in shops for a while now.

53702 alw, 6, #610 of 996 🔗

Excellent to have list of small businesses that have reopened. Suggest that you also have a list of shops and other places that won’t require face masks so we can support the brave.

53704 Brian D, 4, #611 of 996 🔗

Recently I’ve started to listen again to talks by Derek Prince. He is (was as he is no longer with us) a man of God and very humble, wise, calm and careful in his teaching. This in itself is a real tonic against the hysterical, shouty, arrogant and unbalanced approach which passes for much of what is given to us as news falsely presented as fact these days.

As a Christian I’ve long been too complacent about my faith and have excused myself of this since I’m very introverted and not good at asserting even loving words to anyone I don’t know but the current warning bells have started to wake me up.

So this is where I’m starting my search.

He / Derek Prince Ministries can be found on YouTube and Spotify and many other places on the web.

53709 annie, 15, #612 of 996 🔗

I’ve revised my theory on face nappies.
They aren’t religion, they are superstition ( though the two often go together). They are, in fact, amulets or talismans. That explains why zombies wear them even in their own cars, and on bikes in open country, and presumably in bed. While you’re wearing your magic amulet, you won’t get Covid.
As for protecting other people, fuck that, it’s ME that counts, and you have to wear the filthy rag to protect ME ME ME ME.
If the govt had imposed rabbit’s-foot brooches instead, the effect would have been the same. Except that it would be a lot better for us and a lot worse for the rabbits.

53711 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 7, #613 of 996 🔗

The basic problem is that a new religion has been created.
There are a group of supreme beings – Public Health England, Department of Health, WHO etc. who have the authority to declare the true faith. We have the priests and acolytes who will disseminate and interpret the pronouncements from on high. We have the Prophets of Doom who will tell us of the disasters that will arrive if we do not follow the approved teachings of the priests. To advertise our faith we have had clapping and rainbow drawing. To take it further we now have the symbols (masks) that we can wear which demonstrate who are adherents of the new faith and who are clearly heretics unbelievers and witches who must be ostracised or removed from society.

But, as we know, religions are an issue of personal belief and not susceptible to reasoned rational argument.
However much we might talk about the stupidity of lockdown, the incompetence of leaders, the irrelevance of masks , the only effect of our discourse will be to allow us to let off steam.
I fear none of this will go away – and the crusade may yet even intensify as the state uses the police to enforce the true faith. Have the gods of any faith ever declared that their followers can now return to the life they used to lead?

53724 ▶▶ John B, replying to Polemon2, 5, #614 of 996 🔗

In previous times rulers relied on religion and the High Priests to back them up when they wanted to inflict things on the people. Any dissent was dismissed with the warning that to defy the edict was to go against God and his priests.

These days all intrusive Government policy, food, drink, climate, Covid, etc is ‘the science’. Modern day High Priests, the Experts, pronounce ex-cathedra from the sacred scrolls, computer models. All must obey

Those who challenge, disobey are against God-science.

53727 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, #615 of 996 🔗

On the subject of rising cases in places like Florida and Texas (as discussed in the “postcard from Florida” Telegraph article linked to in today’s LS update), I was wondering how long it will be until cases start to drop again, and if so this would remove one of the major fuels of “second wave” panic. Then I realised that this will inevitably be attributed to the reintroduced restrictions/closures, and people will be a lot less eager to open up again, after what happened the first time. So (conveniently for the pro-lockdown, alarmist mentality) it doesn’t look like there’s much chance of these second spikes being given the chance to die off naturally.

From looking at the statistics it seems obvious that some US states (and other places like Australia) locked down, and then opened up, long before reaching herd immunity, so it’s inevitable that cases are going to rise again. From the “postcard” article, it sounds like there actually has been an increase in deaths and hospital cases, but surely not as catastrophic as it’s made out to be? Are there any articles with up-to-date figures on the situation in the US?

53752 ▶▶ John B, replying to Drawde927, 3, #616 of 996 🔗

Not ‘cases’ ie people with disease requiring medical intervention, but positive tests. Many of these are in asymptomatic people. The tests pick up antibodies or viral RNA fragments. These tests only indicate that the subject has had the disease and recovered, or had the infection (no disease) or has previously been exposed to other coronavirus.

The infection mortality rate is <0,2% so very few of these positive tests will result in deaths.

As for Florida the surge in ‘cases’ is attributed to high false positive reporting. Reference to the Fox News report in Round up above.

Florida has not had the typical death curve, quick exponential growth, peak, decline. It has been almost flat-line. Recent increase in daily deaths is catch-up. Mortality is among elderly with underlying conditions who are moribund anyway.

53737 Mr Jim McGregor, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 2, #617 of 996 🔗

Is there any “target” at which we can stop wearing masks when it is reached? Or will the government just decide when they think it’s safe enough?

53742 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, #618 of 996 🔗

Deliberately not. Not target, date or scientific. For the foreseeable future is the spoken language by leaders of various nations.

53744 ▶▶ John B, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 8, #619 of 996 🔗

Nope. Next step wearing masks in the street too until a vaccine is found and everyone submitted to being vaccinated.

There are no temporary Government measures which do not become permanent unless and until the peasantry pick up their pitch forks.

53747 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 2, #620 of 996 🔗

Look out for the coming mask shuffle to pass masks across from covid to say influenza. They are here to stay unless people reject them.

53756 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 4, #621 of 996 🔗

I have no intention to start wearing face masks. Of course I have no idea how that’s going to work out for me in practice but I am pretty sure the consequences will be minor compared to whats in store if we continue to meekly obey our fascist tyrant overlords.

53803 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Jim McGregor, 2, #622 of 996 🔗

Non-compliance, no date required.

53738 wendyk, #623 of 996 🔗


Since we’re all being treated like Muppets, how about one of these?

Animal was my favourite character- barking mad!

53748 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 5, #624 of 996 🔗


In case anyone hasn’t seen this. Brilliant! Andrew Lawrence is keeping my precarious sanity from disintegrating.

53784 ▶▶ Mark, replying to wendyk, 2, #625 of 996 🔗

He does a good job of coming up with brutally apt names and titles: “Benjamin Snivelling-Turd, Junior Government Minister of Obsequious Arse-licking”.

53806 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark, 2, #626 of 996 🔗

O Yes!! 😄

53814 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #627 of 996 🔗

” … Govey, the big-G, G-man …” Priceless!

53750 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, #628 of 996 🔗

I can’t read this as I’m not a subscriber but the title in itself is plenty


53778 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to kbeanie, #630 of 996 🔗

It doesn’t really say what’s dangerous about them, very mysterious!

53783 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #631 of 996 🔗

I found the full article on the Guardian. Basically the private firm that supplies test kits to care homes + the public have ‘unsafe swabs’

53933 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to kbeanie, 3, #632 of 996 🔗

Swabs contaminated with covid-19 by any chance?

53996 ▶▶▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to A. Contrarian, #633 of 996 🔗

Now that would be an interesting development!

54048 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to kbeanie, 1, #634 of 996 🔗

It’s not the first time it’s happened during this charade…

53900 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to A. Contrarian, #635 of 996 🔗

The danger is that profit from the £133M will diminish the more tests they do. Stopping now means more money in the pocket.

53782 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to kbeanie, 1, #636 of 996 🔗

Can’t read the article as I’m not a subscriber, but when I searched for something similar from other sources there was absolutely nothing to be found. Really strange, as surely this a quite a big story?

53790 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kbeanie, 3, #638 of 996 🔗

Randox was awarded a £133m contract in March to produce the testing kits for England, Wales and Northern Ireland without any other firms being given the opportunity to bid for the work.

More taxpayers money pissed up the wall.


53854 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #639 of 996 🔗


53800 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kbeanie, 3, #640 of 996 🔗

Apparently Hancock is wetting his pants over all the “false negatives”. No mention, apparently, of false positives.

53935 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #641 of 996 🔗

False negatives is a good thing, as long as none of those people were ill (and we keep being told that everyone is asymptomatic). Wider spread and better immunity surely?

53838 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to kbeanie, 1, #642 of 996 🔗

I might explain his tearful face on tv lately

53964 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Farinances, 1, #643 of 996 🔗

I couldn’t watch him. I had a similar aversion to May.

53757 Cicatriz, 2, #644 of 996 🔗
53759 Locked down and out, 9, #645 of 996 🔗

As Toby says, the no-death days will soon be upon us and may already he here:
A further 19 people who tested positive for the coronavirus have died in England, bringing the total number of confirmed reported deaths in hospitals to 29,144.
Patients were aged between 52 and 91 years old and all had known underlying health conditions.
So, once again, no normal healthy person of any age has died from this virus.

53761 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 10, #646 of 996 🔗

I’m not sure what’s going on today, but for some reason I’m seeing lots of people who walk past on the path that runs outside my house wearing masks, even though they don’t have to outdoors. Since the lockdown I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone go past in a mask, it looks like the brainwashing had certainly set in now.

53763 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 1, #647 of 996 🔗

Thats your washed brain types cleverly realising ttat they can be proactive ahead of the date of must wear. This is the skillfully judged bit of the plan the fore delay to creep the behaviour in – ever hesrd of esrly adopeters and how they function in marketing terms. Those are the people out side your window. Self aware alert and conscientious members of society, citizens.

53768 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 4, #648 of 996 🔗

It seem to be all people I’d say were under 25 too, those the least likely to have any problems from it.

53848 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 3, #649 of 996 🔗

Yep. Lob bricks at them.

53762 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, #650 of 996 🔗

92700 minks to be culled in Aragon, Spain because of suspicion of human transmission. Remember the tigers with Covid-19 in New York and the zoo keeper with Covid-19? Perhaps it was the other way round and let’s start culling the tigers?

53792 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to swedenborg, #651 of 996 🔗

Mulled mink hmm, sounds delicious

53832 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, 1, #652 of 996 🔗

Spain is batshit crazy

Good job I don’t like it there
(Too many tourists)

54106 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, #653 of 996 🔗

So that’s fine, mass extermination of animals, based on a hunch!

53770 Mark, replying to Mark, 3, #654 of 996 🔗

Speed cameras ARE being used to fleece drivers: Watchdog reveals how locations are chosen in ‘good hunting grounds’ for making money rather than preventing accidents – so is YOUR yellow box among those raking in the most cash?
Not a covid issue, obviously, but hopefully it’s one Toby would accept here. If I were to try to twist and turn to get a justificatory pretext:

It a story that…illustrates the cynical dishonesty of government and police and…… their willingness to abuse pretexts based on safety….erm, to…. pursue ulterior goals.
Just like the coronapanic!

Anyway there’s a whole chapter on this phenomenon in the new book I’m currently reading as a result of an interview link first seen here on LS:

Matthew Crawford: the dangers of Safetyism

53775 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #655 of 996 🔗

For anyone that has not watched it, the interview linked to above is well worth your time and is very relevant to the current situation with the virus

53779 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #656 of 996 🔗

I agree, and I’m actually enjoying the book so far as well. I do think it’s very much in line with Toby’s past comments (remember the “Dangerous Party”?)

Why We Drive: Toward a Philosophy of the Open Road

Kind of reminds me of Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, but it’s decades since I read that and I think it’s probably mostly due to cultural and recreational similarities between the authors.

53772 gina, 11, #657 of 996 🔗

I’ve written so many emails to MPs, ministers and supermarket customer services depts over the past couple of days. I don’t know what else to do. This morning I got a mealy mouthed response to one I’d written to my own MP.

Having just finished and sent a further reponse to him I am enraged and have nowhere to go with it. Putting some of it here as a release. Hope that’s ok.

To Duncan Baker, MP:
A final word on the enforcement of wearing masks.
To insist on such an invasion, such an intimate assault on a private person, especially on the basis of such weak evidence as is available, is an outrage against that person and their human rights. I, and many others, will not comply. I most strongly assert that you and your dreadful ministers do not have the right to force me to do things to my own body against my will.

Note I do not say government. As far as I am aware we are no longer living in a parliamentary democracy but in a police state, where officers of the law are instructed to enforce the rule of individual minister’s whims and diktats, a place where neighbours are encouraged to inform on one another, where members of the public are invited to shame and harass their fellow men and women, a place where people are forced to chose between upholding their principles, maintaining their personal boundaries and physical integrity and obtaining food, the means to live.

We have moved a long, long way from making sure the NHS had enough capacity to cope with a sudden influx of the sick, a long way from ‘flattening the curve,’ haven’t we?
I invite you to take stock. You and your government’s ministers have, among other things, so far:
trashed our economy,
deprived us of our right to assembly,
cancelled our democratic right to vote, May 2020,
put us under house arrest,
kept us from accessing necessary medical and dental care,
deprived our children of an adequate education,
kept us from comforting our sick and dying,
prevented us from burying our dead and greeting our newborn,
demanded first we abandon members of our families and our friends, and then demand we choose favourites from among them,
attempted to dictate who we can be physically affectionate with and when,
attempted to dictate whether we could have sex and with whom,

and now you have decreed what we must place upon our person in public places.

That’s quite a tally. Is this what you entered politics to do?

I am not at all reassured by your email.
I am certainly never, ever, going to allow wearing a face cloth to become ‘second nature.’ If nature had intended a flap over our nose and mouth as part of our respiratory system I am sure we would have been born with one in place.

53773 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, #658 of 996 🔗

Avoid Spain on your jollies this year. These are the face masks rules. I particularly like the beach one. Walking to and from the sea – no mask. Walking parallel to the sea – mask required. People are actually paid to make up these rules…

The rules are;
In your own car : The driver and passengers need not wear facemasks if registered as living within the same household. If anyone else is in the car, then facemasks MUST be worn at all times.
Your own home or your own private pool :: That is your own decision, but if you have guests, visitor’s etc – then it is advised you do wear facemasks, but otherwise facemasks need not be worn.
Children UNDER SIX (6) are excused wearing facemasks, but if you can make them understand, then perhaps it would be beneficial for them to do so 😊
Communal or public pools : Facemasks are excused while swimming or sitting in your own group, but at all other times, the facemask must be worn
The Beach : When your sitting in your own space with family unit, you do not need to wear a mask. Neither if your walking towards the sea (to swim) …… but otherwise, walking along the beach for whatever reason means the facemask needs to be worn at all times.
Public Transport : Facemasks are MANDATORY at all times. This includes taxi s buses, trains, aeroplanes.
<span style="color: rgb(29, 33, 41);">Walking the dog, ferret, cat, horse goat or rabbit</span>: Facemasks is MANDATORY at all times.
<span style="color: rgb(29, 33, 41);">Restaurants, Bars, Cafes</span>: When your sat at the table with friends/family, you do not have to wear a facemask, but if seated talking, perhaps consider putting it back on. (as a responsible adult! ). Walking around or visiting the toilets, means the facemask must be worn.
<span style="color: rgb(29, 33, 41);">Shops, streets, cinema, shopping malls, airports, train/bus stations</span>: Facemasks are MANDATORY at all times.
<span style="color: rgb(29, 33, 41);">Sports & exercising</span>: You do not have to wear a facemask if exercising or playing sports …. This includes jogging, running, cycling …. But walking is NOT included (again, as a sensible adult, please wear a facemask if at all possible before & after).
<span style="color: rgb(29, 33, 41);">Gym
s: When actually using the equipment within the gym, a facemask need not be worn. But, when walking around in the common areas within the gym, a facemask must be worn (again, just sensible behaviour towards other people will be appreciated).
At Work : Facemasks while at work is MANDATORY at all times.
Plus, please remember > EVERYONE needs to carry PHOTO-ID at all times (this has been a law for decades) and this includes Spaniards, Residents & TOURISTS. It must be acceptable photo ID, so the green residencia is not acceptable > so Passports, Driving Licence or TIE card.
As far as I can see, everything is covered above > if I’ve missed something let me know, then I’ll add it accordingly.
Basically, we all need to be SENSIBLE about this. It is for the combined good of everyone. The rules exist and if ignored you will likely receive a fine, STARTING AT €100 per person and rising steadily as you disagree with the police officer. Those willing to pay these charges will of course be much appreciated by all for paying extra towards Spain’s public services, but may well be shunned by most others who are willing to obey.

53774 ▶▶ Julian, replying to The Spingler, #659 of 996 🔗

Is this everywhere in Spain, or does it vary by region?

53776 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Julian, 1, #660 of 996 🔗

Not sure. This is from a forum for the Malaga area

53780 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to The Spingler, 1, #661 of 996 🔗


53781 ▶▶ RickH, replying to The Spingler, 2, #662 of 996 🔗

Looks like Franco lives!

53815 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 2, #663 of 996 🔗

I enjoyed seeing the staked out isolation squares around the sun loungers. Done by pegging rope into the beach marking borders between isolation areas. If ever anything was a health and safety trip hazard it is a pair of flip flops and a trip wire running in the sand.

53805 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to The Spingler, 2, #664 of 996 🔗

And I thought we were ahead in the madness stakes; unbelievable.

53816 ▶▶ Basics, replying to The Spingler, 3, #665 of 996 🔗

Using a mask in a swimming pool is waterboarding surely?

53821 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to The Spingler, 1, #666 of 996 🔗

So in Spain you have to carry photo identification with you AT ALL TIMES! Presumably even if you’re walking along a beach. And we think things are bad in this country!

53823 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tenchy, #667 of 996 🔗

It’s the same laws in a lot of countries – I’ve spent 30+ years overseas and it is always a good idea to carry a photocopy of your passport at all times regardless.

You’d be surprised who easy going the UK is compared to most places and police forces, especially the federal ones.

54083 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Awkward Git, #668 of 996 🔗

It’s pretty common France and Germany certainly have the same requirement

54116 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 1, #669 of 996 🔗

But but … the eu ! 🙂

53833 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tenchy, 2, #670 of 996 🔗

I can only think of one place (maybe 2!) to hold it whilst in my swimwear. I would gladly hand it over for inspection!

53957 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, #671 of 996 🔗


53851 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to The Spingler, #672 of 996 🔗

Generally speaking you ride a horse not walk it. I won’t be wearing a mask when riding my ponies if the idiots in power decide to make them mandatory outside too. It would scare the ponies.

53955 ▶▶ annie, replying to The Spingler, 1, #673 of 996 🔗

Franco would have been shocked at such illiberality.

53786 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #674 of 996 🔗

Use masks as a mocking counter punch weapon. Dripping with satire, sarcasm, great quotes, aphorisms, lines from poems, pamphlets, etc. Mobile graffiti that people will see wherever you go.

53825 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to richard riewer, 5, #675 of 996 🔗

Another thing we could all do is gam up the system. So say….. I want to go get my eyes tested in next few weeks. Sadly I tried to sneak in before the maskacre begins, and I failed.
So the plan is to book an appointment with ALL my local opticians, high street chain and/or independent in a short time frame. I will go the appointments unmasked and take no notice of antisocial distancing.

If I am ordered to put on a mask I will do so. But I will put on a balaclava, hence making me completely incomprehensible when I speak. An eye test cannot possibly be performed if the patient can’t communicate what they’re seeing.

They’ll have to order me to take it off. Process will be repeated with whatever shitty ‘surgical’ number they hand me to replace it with. Hopefully they will order me to take it off again. The appointment can continue unhindered.

Basically the first place to get my point and allow an unmasked appointment gets my custom. Anyone who asks me to leave doesn’t. And I just wasted an hour of their time with my performance. 😊

53829 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Farinances, #676 of 996 🔗

Gaffa tape over the mouth before putting the mask on would work equally well.

53839 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to richard riewer, 8, #677 of 996 🔗

Yes, we employ mockery. You don’t have to say “pardon” too many times before the mask is whipped off in exasperation! Funny, they’re not that bothered about the ‘plague’ when they’re not getting their coffee quickly enough!

53807 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to stefarm, 8, #679 of 996 🔗

Glad to see confirmation. As someone with history of Asthma, gives me a genuine excuse to roll out, and I can then just pull out my asthma pump if some twat gets arsey.

Also, the language used by Whitty again: “ Wearing a face covering is an added precaution that may have some benefit in reducing the likelihood that a person with the infection passes it on.”

It couldn’t be more clear that making these mandatory is totally unjustified on any scientific level, and yet they persist and the hysterical morons lap it up.

53881 ▶▶▶ anti_corruption_tsar, replying to Mark II, 1, #680 of 996 🔗

Me too – I had asthma in my childhood, so will just carry round my becotide and ventolin inhalers. Part of me wouldn’t mind seeing some intolerant lefty admonishing me for not wearing a mask, and then I’ll give them what forth!

53791 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 28, #681 of 996 🔗

This is from the Spectator;

Masks, it seems, are not being made mandatory for public health reasons but to inspire confidence to get people out and about. But there is a risk that this will backfire: that masks will reinforce the idea that the virus is still very much at large. Covid-19 has now receded in the vast majority of the country. The official estimate is that 0.03 per cent of the population of England have the virus. This means you would have to meet almost 4,000 people in a shop to stand a reasonable chance of coming into contact with someone with Covid-19, let alone catching it. Such facts can help put things into perspective.

But rather than publicise such numbers, ministers introduce edicts and restrictions that were deemed excessive at the height of the pandemic. This risks sending another message: that the threat is perhaps larger than is being let on. Surely it would be better, as Mr Gove originally suggested, to have an honest conversation over the data, the risks and the extent to which masks are likely to help. Reluctance to do so would suggest a lack of respect for the electorate, or people’s ability to draw their own conclusions

53795 ▶▶ Mark, replying to smileymiley, 8, #682 of 996 🔗

Reluctance to do so would suggest a lack of respect for the electorate, or people’s ability to draw their own conclusions “….

… or a justified fear that people might draw politically and personally inconvenient (for the government) but correct conclusions about the disastrous incompetence that gave rise to the lockdown policy.

53799 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 10, #683 of 996 🔗

That’s the real evil – not the initial blunder, which was unforgivable but to err is human, but the cover-up that has been ongoing since they realised there was nothing much to worry about

53820 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 3, #684 of 996 🔗

How does that explain a lot of other countries and their politicians following exactly the same playbook?

53827 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #685 of 996 🔗

Broadly and to varying extents, same panic, same opportunities seized, similar lies to cover up.

53837 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 3, #686 of 996 🔗

Occam’s razor is beginning to suggest a deliberate plan. 🙂

53844 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 3, #687 of 996 🔗

Maybe so, though I’ve had a long experience of following governmental incompetence and corruption and I’m heavily disposed to the incompetence over conspiracy side, so I would take a lot of convincing. Other folks’ mileage clearly varies.

(I mean over-arching conspiracy, obviously. There are numerous petty political conspiracies going on all the time).

53949 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Awkward Git, #688 of 996 🔗

Because it’s a global agreement that’s why!

53824 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 2, #689 of 996 🔗

The sheer shameless dishonesty of continuing to pretend there’s some kind of plague about is rather mind-boggling. But again, that’s not confined to “Conservatives”, nor even to politicians, when you consider the enthusiastic complicity and mendacity of the (very much anti both “Conservative” and conservative) media and scientific establishments.

53810 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 4, #690 of 996 🔗

I think it’s a bit late to recognise that the Spiv and Chancer government, led by the physical embodiment of A Walking Talking Porky-Pie has “ a lack of respect for the electorate”!

53819 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 3, #691 of 996 🔗

It’s a fair criticism, but it’s equally true that all the available alternatives would most likely have been worse. We do not have a corrupt and incompetent party, we have a corrupt and incompetent elite.

53953 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to RickH, 1, #692 of 996 🔗

This man made crisis proves how much the elites really despises the common man.

53796 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to smileymiley, 9, #693 of 996 🔗

But there is a risk that this will backfire: that masks will reinforce the idea that the virus is still very much at large”: “risks sending another message: that the threat is perhaps larger than is being let on”
Not a risk at all – a certainty.

53809 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to smileymiley, 3, #694 of 996 🔗

I couldn’t have put it better myself 🙂 This reasoning is spot on, unlike the government’s, which is perverse. IF this ruling isn’t reversed (fat chance!) I really hope it has a rapid and severe adverse effect on the High Street.

Do you have a link to the article?

53845 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Edna, 1, #696 of 996 🔗

Thank-you 🙂

53908 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to smileymiley, 1, #697 of 996 🔗

Actually the having to meet 4000 people is incorrect, the chances of making it more likely than not to meet someone with it would be significantly less. Just like you only needing 23 people in a room for there to be a 50% chance you share a birthday. However it is still a ridiculously small number to be forced to wear masks and antisocial distance and altogether ruin the quality of life for such a pithy disease.

53971 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #698 of 996 🔗

The chance that each person you meet isn’t infected is 1 – 1/4000 = 0.99975. Thus you need to meet about 2770 people to still have a 50% chance of not meeting an infected person (prob = 0.99975 ^ 2770 ). Meet a few more and your chance of meeting an infected person will be above 50%: not that much short of 4000 in an order of magnitude sort of way!

[ The birthday analogy is not really comparable because the 23-people applies for any two to share a birthday and NOT for YOU to share a birthday with any of the others ]

54001 ▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to IanE, #699 of 996 🔗

Thank you for correcting me!

53943 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to smileymiley, 1, #700 of 996 🔗

I’ll be shopping less from now on.

53950 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to smileymiley, #701 of 996 🔗

Never going to wear one

53801 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 12, #702 of 996 🔗

Do I have this right?

– A judge of the land said in court just the other day that it was not only legal but right and proper to force people to stay in their homes for ‘advisory’ (potentially indefinite) periods because they had access to the internet.
– Another judge of the land has just stated that a terrorist must re-enter the country in order to undertake trial because there is no other way this can be achieved.
(An army base in Raqqa and a satellite phone. Job done.)


53804 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Farinances, 1, #703 of 996 🔗

Come on, Farinances, get it right, she’s a school girl from London!

53808 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to kh1485, 2, #704 of 996 🔗

An innocent counter of severed heads.

53831 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #705 of 996 🔗

Allegedly. One was hoping trust in our governments was on the wane …

53895 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Farinances, 1, #706 of 996 🔗

Maybe she’ll be heading a new Mask Enforcement task force.

53818 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 3, #707 of 996 🔗

Truth and meaning are subordinate to convenience and ideology, in a corrupt society.

53812 Basics, replying to Basics, #708 of 996 🔗

Scottish Childrens Commissioner says that every child in Scotland will need mental health support.

“Even the most resilient children are going to need additional support as they navigate this transition back into whatever is the new normal. Take as a starting point that every child is going to need something extra and many will need a lot extra.”


If anyone knows of the recent attemped Scottish Government Named Person scheme and the successful campaign No To Named Person this article may be of interest.

53843 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Basics, 2, #709 of 996 🔗

I should think the majority of adults will need something to, mental health is shot!

53952 ▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 4, #710 of 996 🔗

What children need, and everybody else, is Sturgeon’s head on a platter.

53822 Sarigan, #711 of 996 🔗

A Kickstarter project worth supporting? Some of his pieces are very powerful messages:


53826 Dave #KBF, 10, #712 of 996 🔗

My opening gambit when engaging strangers in cv19 conversation is about mask in shops.

So far it has not failed to be a good conversation opener, ordinary people are realising, that the mask decree is nonsense and they are will to have a conversation about it.

As Toby said in todays blog “Could This be Boris’s Poll Tax Moment?”

Hopefully it is, Talk Radio & LBC both have had discussions about why from the 24th July, and the feeling I got was that sensible people are now asking why.

53828 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 8, #713 of 996 🔗

So – yesterday (I think?) the head of the CDC made the claim that if everyone wore face masks the coronavirus would be “under control” in 8 weeks. Nevermind that any idiot can look at the charts all across the US and see that it will be gone in 8 weeks, regardless. Let’s get that virgin thrown into the lava pit, post haste!

It is, of course, just providing an excuse for every governor in the country to mandate masks. This guy didn’t cite to any new study or any groundbreaking revelation. Nothing has changed in “the science” over the past several months, but the dominoes are falling, just as they did with lockdowns, and everyone is too stupid to see the parallel. It is mass hysteria, just like any other mass hysteria, which is, of course, the very basis for our system of government with its limitations of power, checks and balances, etc… but, considering the fact that we stopped actually teaching history, I guess people have forgotten all about that.

I expect some kid who gets stuck in his grandfather’s library to accidentally sit down with a book about the French revolution and think to himself: “oh, damn…. daaaaaaamn”

53929 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RyanM, 4, #714 of 996 🔗

What does “under control” mean? Half empty hospitals? If so, it’s been under control in the UK for quite some time, but without face masks.

53968 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #715 of 996 🔗

The nice thing about vague language is that it can mean whatever you want it to mean. Apparently, if you want to have near-dictatorial powers, all you have to do is declare an “emergency.” Even though the statute (in my state) contemplates that an emergency only lasts until “order is restored,” apparently that is subjective, so my governor can declare that there is still “disorder” for months at a time, maintaining an ongoing state of emergency. Obviously, the statute was not intended to be so vague, but that is where we currently are. Politicians have really perfected the art of speaking in such a manner that they can always claim to have been right… so, “under control” means whatever they want it to mean when they have some other arbitrary requirement to force on us in the next year or so. Once it is undeniably under control, it will shift to being necessary as a proactive measure against the “next wave.” In short, this power lasts forever.

53836 Basics, replying to Basics, #716 of 996 🔗

News just reaching me of the chaos in Inverness where the covid pavement widening schemes are going all out. Funny how a virus makes a city council turn roads into a one way system from hell. Pictures of long queues as the council has put in barriers to close half the width of roads.

More deliberate choking of transport infrastructure on the back of a plandemic. Coming to an urban centre near you soon.

53841 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Basics, #717 of 996 🔗

That’s where my ex and sons were shouted and “coughed at” the other day.

53852 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Basics, 5, #718 of 996 🔗

Oh yes, we’ve had this in our medieval market town for the past week or so. Accompanied by signs instructing us to “Go green and save the environment” (we even have our own Green Councillor who has green hair – yes really).

It’s such a boon to the town …

53882 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 3, #719 of 996 🔗

They can fuck off can’t they.

Or in more polite terms it is really sad to see our living environments, our living heritage being tweaked by technocrats. These road ways are thousands of years old in our towns and villages. It is obscene their current keepers have worked to use them against us the people. The covid farce a mere excuse for this plan ocurring up and down the land – no conspiracy.

Looking at these myopic town council planners from the point of view of a legionaire or a sack clothed Anglo Saxon makes me realise how futile city council busybodies are.

Peasantry are the continuity of national life. It is the game of the establishment to obscure sight of that fact.

53863 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 4, #720 of 996 🔗

I still don’t understand.

They’ve narrowed the roads to widen the pavements?

😂 😂 😂 Oh Lor. This is like something from The Onion cone to life.
Every day is like something from the Onion come to life.

53887 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Farinances, 2, #721 of 996 🔗

Yes. Your car is undesirable to them. Personal transport is to be restricted or choked. Electric scooters and bikes – tagged active travel – are the future. This covid has provided the moment to leap forward with those plans alreay in action. Verify by looking at your councils 5 10 20 year plans.

Habitat Conference.

Must be done in Summer because come winter the fun aspect will have worn off.

53892 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 2, #722 of 996 🔗

Agenda 21, Agenda 2030, new green deal, carbon neutral, zero emissions, all been planned for a long time.

53899 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #723 of 996 🔗

Yes. And it is available to look into online with UN source documents and so on.

53951 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 2, #724 of 996 🔗

Car undesirable, but you are discouraged from using public transport … better get your shoes re-heeled, but sanitise them first.

53967 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 1, #725 of 996 🔗

This is the desperate conflict they have yet to get out of. I cannot work out how the two will reconcile.

53906 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Farinances, 4, #726 of 996 🔗

Oh yes. And in our town, they’ve obstructed the pavements with speed limit signs (not in the bits they’ve widened though).

They then wonder why no-one is visiting the town.

53878 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Basics, 1, #727 of 996 🔗

Not quite COVID related but our council has removed one lane of a road to make it a cycle lane. It is alongside an existing cycle lane.

53891 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Polemon2, 3, #728 of 996 🔗

If you see that covid is being used as an opportunity to bring in substantial changes to our way of life then this is highly relevant to covid.

53938 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Basics, 3, #729 of 996 🔗

I’ve been saying this from the very beginning the virus is all about the Green Agenda it was never about our health.

53840 TyLean, replying to TyLean, 2, #730 of 996 🔗

It’s happening. Trust Stamp is being rolled out in Africa. Google it.

53860 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to TyLean, 3, #731 of 996 🔗

Ok now I’m scared.

They always test his nefarious shit on those poor Africans/Indians. I hope they kick off. Come on Africa, kick off!!! What’s betting the President of Tanzania won’t be letting this shit in lol

54107 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Farinances, #732 of 996 🔗

What’s the betting the President of Tanzania has a sudden heart attack, just like the President of Burundi did?

53864 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to TyLean, 1, #734 of 996 🔗

Yep, next stage of the vaccine passports – covipass, ID2020, EU vaccine paperwork and so on:


Reported lots of places.

I also saw this warning on a blog from Mexico I read:

Insider info: Pandemic mayhem in OctoberI just finished talking to a high ranking member of a major conservative organization that has already locked down millions of people in quarantine due to the organization having knowledge of a new virus that will be released within a time frame that slates October as a month of major mayhem. This organization has many elite within it’s ranks yet is conservative. They have already provided comfortable quarantine to millions of people. Some of their people are still out and about in public, but they have protected their most valuable people with forced quarantine because they don’t know when the new virus will be released and there will be two groups, those that are already quarantined and those that are not quarantined but provide support. It is a very interesting arrangement, they are obviously taking this seriously.
Many readers of this site have probably seen the recent video clip of Bill Gates stating “This virus did not get taken seriously, but the next one will”. It came off as a threat. I believe that was a real threat, and now that this organization has taken this action, it really appears we indeed have something to worry about. It was the conservatives that first saw through the B.S. and if this organization is not subverted it has to mean that the elite within it’s ranks got real insider info and there really is something new on the way to worry about. I’d say there is a 30 percent chance of subversion and a 70 percent chance this is all legit.
Anyone with a lick of sense knows the doctors are murdering people and false registering deaths, as well as faking test results to get the stats up to actionable levels, but too many people are aware of this now and it is highly probable that the elite have therefore decided to do it for real this time. So it only makes sense to:
1. If you own a business, be prepared to shut it down, now is not the time to expand and put it at risk with additional debt. If it is going under already, don’t wipe yourself out trying to keep it afloat.
2. If you consumed your Corona supplies and can build them back up, you had better get that done SOON because the clock is ticking, this time we have a solid warning.
There is obviously a chance this is all a hoax and nothing real ever will be released, but Bill Gates actually did threaten this and this particular organization would be the last one I’d ever expect to fall for a hoax. Subversion of this organization is possible, but not likely.
One final note: I actually went to one of the locations this organization was supposed to be using for quarantine, and YEP, they are there, and quarantined. It looks like they are being stupid for now. This is supposed to be happening in every country, with this organization.

October cropping up far too often now – there was something mentioned on here a few weeks ago by a high-profile journalist who heard off the record that October lockdowns were being planned for the UK. Would look through all the old comments but having a beer after dinner so can’t be bothered.

53846 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 4, #735 of 996 🔗

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8530449/Wales-BANS-public-transport-users-talking-mobile-phones-new-coronavirus-rules.html . Just when you thought the madness couldn’t get worse . What on earth could be the reason for not reading a paper?

53858 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to arfurmo, 2, #736 of 996 🔗

What the fuuuuuck?

53871 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to arfurmo, 1, #737 of 996 🔗

This isn’t true. The only guidelines I can find, on the Welsh Govt website are these:

  • only travelling by public transport if it is essential
  • working from home where possible
  • shopping locally and less often
  • considering all other forms of transport such as cycling and walking before using public transport
  • avoiding the busiest times and routes
  • keeping your distance when you travel where possible
  • washing and sanitising your hands regularly
  • wearing a 3 layer face covering when using public transport.

And I cannot find anything on the BBC Wales website or Wales Online about not reading newspapers etc.

Why would the Daily Mail lie about these measures?

53847 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 9, #738 of 996 🔗

I sent an email to my MP, a junior minister, yesterday after the announcement of mandatory face masks. I said I thought the Gov’s handling of the Covid-19 outbreak had been an omnishambles and that the final straw was the masks. I told her I was resigning from the Conservative Party and had a reply today which must be a record for a short turnaround!

H ere is her reply:

“Thank you for your email.

I regret the decision you have reached, though would respectfully disagree with your characterisation of the Government’s management of this unprecedented crisis.

Similarly, I am not sure I would agree that the mandatory wearing of face coverings, due to take effect from 24 July, is somehow redolent of a dystopian, or authoritarian, narrative. We know that as more and more of us return to our nation’s high streets and city centres after months of necessary idleness, the more difficult it will be to maintain a safe social distance from others, especially those with whom we do not ordinarily come into physical contact. That is why face coverings serve as a proportionate precaution; but also, as we have seen from the same policy being introduced on public transport, mandatory face coverings will restore confidence to shoppers and give our high streets and city centres the boost they desperately need at this time.

However, there is of course a more cogent rationale: sales assistance, cashiers and security guards have suffered disproportionately in this crisis. As we restore shopping, we must too take the necessary action to keep our shopkeepers safe.

Thank you for contacting me on this issue and I hope you will reconsider your decision.”

As you can see she seems to be saying that sales assistance (sic), cashiers and security guards have suffered more from Covid but I don’t think there is any evidence for that (just as there is none that NHS staff have been).

53853 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to DocRC, 6, #739 of 996 🔗

The only thing that’s bloody unprecendented is the government’s response.

53856 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #740 of 996 🔗

And the China-lying.

54033 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Farinances, #741 of 996 🔗

China – or rather the CCP lying is nothing new. I don’t understand why anyone would expect anything else. If your approach to anything depends on honesty from a bunch of psychopathic communist dictators then it is doomed from the start. Still it appears now our government intends to emulate the CCP in every way.

53862 ▶▶ Mark, replying to DocRC, 9, #742 of 996 🔗


Honest, accurate assessment

this unprecedented crisis

Dishonest, self serving and grossly misleading mis-characterisation. Since when was a new cold/flu epidemic causing a barely detectable bump (if any at all) in the annual all cause mortality numbers, “unprecedented”?

Job well done, anyway. She will pass the message up the chain and if enough similar messages get passed up some at least in the hierarchy will start to get sweaty and shifty.

How do these people reconcile supposedly conservative politics with imposing unprecedented, experimental on a massive scale, authoritarian measures, in a huge gamble with the entire nation’s economic and social well-being, for so little?

Sheer panic and/or not being remotely conservative are the only plausible explanations, surely?

53866 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 4, #743 of 996 🔗

I wrote to Chope, Swayne and Leigh, thanking them for taking a stand on masks. Got a “thanks” from Swayne (not an assistant), nothing from the others yet.

53869 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Julian, 1, #744 of 996 🔗

Ditto on the writing and the replies 🙂

53868 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to Mark, 9, #745 of 996 🔗

Agreed. I said in my email to the MP that I felt like I’d woken up in a dystopian novel and was dismayed to find that all these authoritarian measures had been enacted not by a socialist government but a supposedly conservative one!

54092 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Mark, #746 of 996 🔗

They are CINOs…the Tory Party is a Centre Left party…has been for 3 decades…never more so than now. Anyone who thinks of themselves as on the Right but is still a member of this party deserves all they get.

53919 ▶▶ Basics, replying to DocRC, 2, #747 of 996 🔗

A glaring reply reply to that would be tgank you junior minister every word of your email displays the whipped hive mind of a failing political entity. A party without rigours discourse is dangerous to the people it serves. Ba~bye. Maybe leave out the antagonistic Ba~bye.

53925 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DocRC, 2, #748 of 996 🔗

Have we seen anything from mandatory masking on public transport? I thought passenger numbers were still right down.

54013 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #749 of 996 🔗

Just back from a walking trip in West London – train and tube. Tube seems 100% masks apart from one chap with it dangling on his ear lobe. Tube trains fairly busy but enough space to distance. Trains still very quiet, six per carriage at best. Outside London itself, west of Staines, mask wearing was way way down. I confess I wore one, very uncomfortable on the hot tube.

Around Richmond town centre there were unfortunately loads of mask wearers but further out none. Stopped at a nice cafe in Syon Park, nice friendly staff, not a mask to be seen. Then lunch at a Harvester – they had a bit of the usual palaver at the door (I had prebooked so they already knew my details) but inside it was virtually normal, not a mask in sight. Food and beer all table service, and the usual help yourself salad bar was done with the waitress choosing what you wanted with you stood behind the line telling her. But atmosphere most definitely normal, And those lovely smiles from everybody which you don’t get from the maskies.

54076 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A. Contrarian, #750 of 996 🔗

They are still down. Went to the City of London today – at one point on the way there, I was the only person in the carriage, buses still dead.

On the way back a bit busy as it was after 5pm but its not like how it was back in February.

53930 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to DocRC, 1, #751 of 996 🔗

That’s sounds very much like something my MP would write! Spooky!

53934 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella Donna, #752 of 996 🔗

Briefing from CCHQ probably. Yet another sick-bag moment.

54075 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DocRC, #753 of 996 🔗

Obviously needs to go out more and talk to people. And when I mean people, the real ones not the ones wheeled out for “inspection tours”

54164 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to DocRC, #754 of 996 🔗

Hi DocRC
Your MP is giving the same line as mine did to me.
I debunked the “high risk to sales assistants” line in my reply.
It’s under my name in yesterday’s posts if you have a search function – I don’t on my phone so can never find anything on this site!

53849 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 10, #755 of 996 🔗

About an hour ago:


That’s one way to bring case numbers down – stop testing.


The muppets could do a better job, at least they were entertaining.

53855 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #756 of 996 🔗

*** AIR PUNCH ***

No more local lockdowns!!


53944 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, #757 of 996 🔗

Absolutely, so long as I don’t have to do the f…. yuck yuck yuck.

53857 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #758 of 996 🔗

From the report:

“However the Government was criticised at the time after it emerged that the Tory MP Owen Paterson receives £100,000 a year from Randox to act as a consultant.”

His wife was found dead a few weeks ago after going for a horse ride and not coming home for 24 hours if I remember correctly then it’s not been mentioned in the MSM nor our local press (I live at the edge of his constituency) since then..

It’s always sad to lose someone in any circumstances but the very first thing I could think of seeing the above statement was is this a Dr Kelly moment and did she know too much?

53879 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, #759 of 996 🔗

Now that’s the kind of petty (relatively), venal conspiracy I could certainly be persuaded of, with sufficient evidence.

53889 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark, 1, #760 of 996 🔗

I don’t know why but it was the very first thing I thought of. Maybe I’m too suspicious.

53926 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #761 of 996 🔗

No you’re not too suspicious no one can blame anyone for being so, not with a government like ours. We all need eyes in the back of our heads too! We cannot relax our guard!

53859 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #762 of 996 🔗

“The Government had two systems to choose from: one with a near 100 per cent accuracy and one that was less accurate – for reasons best known to them, they chose the non-clinically validated, less accurate, system.”


I like understated sarcasm. If anyone hadn’t guessed.

53867 Julian, replying to Julian, 6, #763 of 996 🔗

Lots of stuff about Russia on the BBC news website today. Distraction from the other bad/controversial news?

53870 ▶▶ Will, replying to Julian, 3, #764 of 996 🔗

Getting excuses in early for the vaccination failure I suspect.

53876 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 2, #765 of 996 🔗

Yes, yes, and YES! 😆 😆

53921 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Julian, 1, #766 of 996 🔗

My thoughts exactly! Oh look there’s a unicorn over there!

53941 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, #767 of 996 🔗

And it’s made of marshmallows and star dust..!

53940 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 2, #768 of 996 🔗

Hilarious nonsense. I wonder what the expected response is to hearing the word Russia. My response has been the same for decades. I roll eyes and laugh – not sure my response is what tgey are looking for.

53992 ▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, 2, #769 of 996 🔗

The usual evidence free anti-Russian propaganda.

53873 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 1, #771 of 996 🔗

This testing cockup will really be a test of the beeb. (Not that they haven’t already been weighed, measured and found wanting).

How will they report it I wonder?
Will they report it at all?

I’m actually looking forward to the news for the first time since the election result.

53885 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #772 of 996 🔗

Also could this be a way of rolling back testing (to quietly ensure LESS cases) without them actually having to admit they’re rolling back testing?

53888 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 2, #773 of 996 🔗


53931 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 1, #774 of 996 🔗

Lol. Not one mention.

Not one. Despite showing clips of Hancock’s ’emergency’ brief where he rowed back (a little) on Leicester.

53972 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #775 of 996 🔗

Got you watching though, didn’t they ? 🙂

54091 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Sarigan, #777 of 996 🔗

Phwoar! Look at the curves on that!

53883 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #778 of 996 🔗

Seems humans are more of a threat to humanity than COVID. This article is dated yesterday but only just got round to reading it:

Fertility rate: ‘Jaw-dropping’ global crash in children being born

The fertility rate – the average number of children a woman gives birth to – is falling.

If the number falls below approximately 2.1, then the size of the population starts to fall.

Got to keep an eye on the reproduction rate. Maybe SAGE could reconvene to discuss ways to keep it up (ahem).

On a serious note, there really needs to be a serious discussion on population control including death in general otherwise the way we’ve reacted to this pandemic will likely repeat and get more extreme over time.

53886 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nobody2020, #779 of 996 🔗

If the birth rates are dropping in areas where there is high GMO corn crops then that will tally up with reports on lab tests from a few years ago I read that stated that the 3rd generation of every rat population that was fed GMO corn diets ended up sterile along with high cancer rates and lung illnesses.

Will have to look for it again.

53928 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #780 of 996 🔗

Typical project scare stuff. The real problem with GMO crops is that plant genes are moved around between species surprisingly easily and some new genes in the wrong species could lead to highly undesirable weeds.

53959 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, #781 of 996 🔗

Didn’t they stick a fish gene in a tomato plant ?

53905 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #782 of 996 🔗

I thought we wanted a lower population. “Don’t procreate, save pandas.” Or some other asinine four word slogan.

I’m getting some really mixed messages from our technocratic overlords.

53942 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cicatriz, #783 of 996 🔗

Global economies are run on debt, or leveraging as some might call it. Borrowing is maintained by GDP which in turn is determined by either population growth or higher productivity if the population is not growing.

At some point the whole system will collapse because perpetual growth is unsustainable.

54028 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #784 of 996 🔗

The western world – especially the US and the UK – has been just awful at improving productivity for decades now. GDP growth is effectively a function of population growth.

54188 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, #785 of 996 🔗

Mostly thanks to the exponential growth of the parasitical part of the economy. I’m thinking empire builders here, or people who add no value to their organisations. Those of us who actually produce are continually improving productivity!

You are right in that the powers that be are relying on unlimited immigration to drive GDP “growth”. Just another Ponzi!!

53920 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #786 of 996 🔗

If I were a young woman there is no way I’d want to bring a child into this world!

54040 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #787 of 996 🔗

Really? Which age would you prefer? During the blitz? Before penicillin? Before the vote? During the plague, or maybe in communist China in the 50s? How bout segregated S Africa in the 70s? Or maybe during a small pox epidemic in frontier America…. I could go on. This is a bloody brilliant age to be born in, especially here. This shit is eternal, this is just our shit. Don’t be silly.

54078 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, -1, #788 of 996 🔗

I told Mr Bart the same thing. Having a baby during these insane times is tantamount to child abuse.

54170 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, #789 of 996 🔗

The good people don’t reproduce, the bad people win without even trying.

54186 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, #790 of 996 🔗

This could be part of the natural cycle. As people globally become better off and are lifted out from absolute poverty, they rely more on savings for their old age, rather than having lots of children to look after them in old age.

This was always predicted to happen.

53884 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 8, #791 of 996 🔗

See this how BBC reporter asked a pro-face mask supporter if he could quote her in an article. Over half of the responses are against masks….

Original Tweet by Sir Edward Leigh MP
Forcing people to wear face masks isn’t the business of Conservatives: We are not an authoritarian party.
And don’t we want to get people back into the shops? These proposals just don’t make sense for Lincolnshire.

Carla replying to @EdwardLeighMP
I for one will be much more likely to visit a shop when people are wearing masks.
They make perfect sense, I’m only confused as to why they were not made compulsory earlier.

Oliver Wright – BBC News online Reporter
Hi Carla, I work for BBC Online and wondered if we might include your response to Sir Edward’s comments in an article about what he has had to say?

Not a problem


53958 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Victoria, #792 of 996 🔗

Oliver Wright … <<updates list>>.

53965 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Victoria, 2, #793 of 996 🔗

From one of the comments:

As far as I can tell covid is a disease that can affect anyone. So why would you not do something that reduces the risks associated with people dying? No wonder we’re as far in this mess with people who have an attitude like yours, especially people running our country.

I’ve never posted on Twitter and have no intention of starting, but if I did I’d be tempted to say: no, it’s people with an attitude like yours who are responsible for the current mess, in terms of how things have been progressing (or not) since the peak in April. Not the pandemic itself or the original lockdown measures, but the unquestioning acceptance of constant fear, alarmism and catastrophism (is that a word?) and shaming of those who don’t follow suit. The “As far as I can tell covid is a disease that can affect anyone” suggests the poster has taken on board the original “stay at home” propaganda and hasn’t bothered looking any further.

If the government REALLY wants to reduce people’s fear and get them out shopping, why not tell them the straightforward facts about hospital admissions and death rates based on age and health!

54021 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Victoria, 2, #794 of 996 🔗

BBC being as impartial as ever ….
Just flicked on to a BBC programme “lifting the lockdown” – more BBC sh*te. Just saw a kid from Salford – looked about 12 – saying how wonderful it was to work from home as it is easier … poor kid couldn’t actually put a grammatical sentence together .

54029 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to mjr, 1, #795 of 996 🔗

The BBC just loves the virtual signalling lockdown rituals like face masks and seems to love the fact that many people aren’t working. They don’t understand why some people would like to return to a time when the authorities didn’t interfere with every aspect of life. Maybe this is a socialist paradise.

53890 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 18, #796 of 996 🔗

What I am struggling with is the reference point now for “public health”. The justification for all of this is that public health requires communal enforcement e.g. to prevent the spread of cholera, tuberculosis, typhoid, MRSA, AIDS. But this all depends on how serious and how contagious they are.
Let’s assume that Covid-19 is a little more lethal than flu. We are locking down Leicester because it has a higher than average incidence. But is that higher than the localised incidence of flu in some other place? Or are we now saying that we will lock down anywhere with any incidence of anything that is higher than a benchmark level of acceptable lethality?
And if that is the case, then obviously we should unlock all the places that have a _lower_ than average incidence.
I can’t help but think that we are focusing on one particular illness just because we can, but if we applied the same reasoning to all public health our whole society would cease to function.

53927 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to WhyNow, #797 of 996 🔗

I can’t help but think that we are focusing on one particular illness just because we can, but if we applied the same reasoning to all public health our whole society would cease to function.

I think this pretty much sums up the entire situation!

54012 ▶▶ matt, replying to WhyNow, 5, #798 of 996 🔗

Our whole society _has_ ceased to function

54016 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, #799 of 996 🔗


54017 ▶▶ John P, replying to WhyNow, 2, #800 of 996 🔗

“We are locking down Leicester because it has a higher than average incidence.”


Leicester is a big city. The “problem” – such as it is – is localised in one part of the city. It is not widespread throughout the city.

And it is not just the city. It also (still) includes the borough of Oadby and Wigston, which is not a part of the city of Leicester.

54173 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to John P, #801 of 996 🔗

But that’s what I mean. Any illness or disease is bound to be clustered somewhere. If the response is to lock down any localised cluster of anything, you will always find something to lock down.
You may as well ban driving for two weeks in Clacton because it has a higher than average incidence of accidents. It is complete madness.
It is actually the journalistic trick of “postcode lottery”. Obviously some places will have a higher incidence of something. You just have to look hard enough.

54177 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to WhyNow, #802 of 996 🔗

Well quite. But public health isn’t just about infectious diseases. It’s about head injuries to children , malnutrition in children, mental health, access to dental care and accurate health information. All these areas are being ignored or neglected.

53894 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, 17, #803 of 996 🔗

So, who fancies pooling our money and buying an island together, and declaring independence from the U.K. government?

“”For those who want something a little closer to the British mainland, Vladi Private Islands is marketing a 64-acre island off the coast of Shetland for £250,000.

It comes with planning consent to build cottages, agricultural buildings, and a pier, plus a watermill, wind turbines and solar panels.””

53896 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #804 of 996 🔗

But it’s in Spiteful Nannying Party Land.

If you could declare independence that would be different.

53901 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #805 of 996 🔗

Absolutely declare independence. Or simply not let anyone else land on the shores, especially busybody authoritarian types.

54003 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to CarrieAH, #806 of 996 🔗

Be a bit like that year 200 experiment that Ben Fogle was part of!

54006 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 1, #807 of 996 🔗

Sorry meant year 2000, not 200. (edit button disappeared..). Was it called Castaway or similar?

53902 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #808 of 996 🔗

Buy it and hold a tea party on the beach.

But to complete the analogy and perhaps hope to achieve similar success you’d have to get active Chinese/Russian support and ensure the British government is distracted by much more pressing ongoing war with one of them. Tricky, in the age of the Nuclear Peace.

Or you could try the Sealand route and just try not to annoy the British government too much, so it doesn’t pay serious attention to you.

53909 ▶▶ Basics, replying to CarrieAH, #809 of 996 🔗

There are few trees on Shetland for a reason. But the idea of what you are saying is desirable.

53915 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to CarrieAH, #810 of 996 🔗

I do.

53917 ▶▶ IanE, replying to CarrieAH, #811 of 996 🔗

Looked good – until the last two items (though, tbf, off the Shetlands any power is probably a bonus).

54174 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to CarrieAH, #812 of 996 🔗

First Law: All face coverings are illegal – even in a Force 10 gale.

54181 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to CarrieAH, #813 of 996 🔗

Not sure if they’d let you build high rises though… How many of us could you fit onto 64 acres? Tempting…

53897 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 9, #814 of 996 🔗


Coronavirus: Less than 5% of people in Scotland likely to have had virus

an appeal to the public about complying with the current restrictions, Dr Steedman said: “Only a fairly small proportion of the population have so far likely been exposed to coronavirus in Scotland. And it is this low number of people, likely exposed, that explains and reinforces our on-going messages to you

Another excuse to keep us locked in, what about asymptomatic cases and those with t cell immunity??

Am I missing something?

53898 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to stefarm, 13, #815 of 996 🔗

Apparently we need to have a high public exposure to the virus before we’re allowed out but putting people at risk of being exposed to the virus could kill people so we’re not allowed to be exposed to the virus.

A bit like getting experience without having a job because it needs experience.

Hancock said something similar in one of his early proclamations. It’s clearly clearly circular logic and an excuse to kick the can down the road.

53914 ▶▶ IanE, replying to stefarm, 1, #816 of 996 🔗

Nope – they are (deliberately!).

54018 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stefarm, 3, #817 of 996 🔗

By the time the UK locked down the virus was everywhere. It had reached every nook and cranny from Lands End to John O’Groats.

It may not be scientific but there is no way it spread everywhere with only 5% exposure.

54034 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to stefarm, 4, #818 of 996 🔗

If the virus is soooooo infectious how come only 5% of the population has had it? Surely something as infectious as covid that requires face masks and lockdowns must have spread further than that….. or is it not actually very infectious at all, whereby lockdowns and face masks are not necessary. They can’t have it both ways…

54171 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to The Spingler, #819 of 996 🔗

I believe it is highly infectious and just about everyone who’s been in a shop in the last six months will have been exposed to it to some degree. But thankfully it seems no or only a little more lethal than most coronaviruses.

54093 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to stefarm, #820 of 996 🔗

In our part of Northwest Scotland, we are convinced it was here in December – lots of people falling ill and well into January. We are in an area which gets lots of Chinese tourists and they were here right to the end of January. Of course, it is too much like common sense to do T-cell tests or whatever they are in our community to establish if that is the case. Much easier to pretend it arrived in the UK at the end of January, because otherwise it upsets the narrative.

54165 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #821 of 996 🔗

The tests are unreliable, Ruth.

54178 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #822 of 996 🔗

I was staying in Fort William over Christmas week and there were plenty of Chinese about. They are endlessly interested in and curious of the UK, and like most first-time visitors, deeply impressed by the Highlands.

Whether unknowing Chinese tourists brought it here at the back end of 2019 or not, I share your view that this has been with us a bit longer than our officials are prepared to admit.

53907 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #823 of 996 🔗

Yesterday the Irish government decided face masks should be mandatory. Here is the Taoiseach’s justification:

My Government and I have received very sobering advice from the National Public Health Emergency Team. The concern about the rise in the number of cases over recent weeks is very real.

The R number, which we have all become familiar with, has now risen above ‘1’ in this country.

And the international situation, with almost a million and a half cases reported in just the last week, represents a growing worry.

Ireland has not had 26,000 reported cases in total. In the week beginning the 29th June the daily average number of cases was 13.4. In the week beginning the 8th July the daily average number of cases was 20.3

Is it the the 142 reported cases last week that is causing concern or the “ almost a million and a half cases” internationally ( worldwide perhaps?) ?

What is the Taoiseach’s measure for deciding when the Irish people can walk in to a shop without wearing a mask? Will it be what is happening in Ireland? or what is happening world wide?

53911 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #824 of 996 🔗

Was the rise due to more tests? We’ve been led up the garden path re Covid numbers, those dying with it from underlying health problems and those that died from it! The government doesn’t distinguish between the two which is positively deceitful.

53922 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Bella Donna, #825 of 996 🔗

I do not know. I suspect there’s more than a bit of politics at play. Michael Martin has only just become the country”s Taoiseach. And perhaps he’s just covering himself in case there is a rise in Covid deaths. Yesterday’s number of cases was 13 – but you can’t go on one day. Nor one week I would have thought.

53947 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bella Donna, #826 of 996 🔗

comment image

Above is from Wikipedia, so yes, increased testing from mid-June it would appear.


54175 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bella Donna, #827 of 996 🔗

Which country are you posting from? The UK ONS keeps careful tally of deaths purely from CV 19 distinct from those where it is one of a number of co morbidities on the death cert?

53979 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #828 of 996 🔗

It’s very interesting how everyone copies each other all around the world. Was just the same with lockdowns, and now with masks.

54011 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to guy153, 1, #829 of 996 🔗

Safety in numbers as they say. As long as they all stick together it’s hard to hold any individual government to account.

53912 angryjock, replying to angryjock, 2, #830 of 996 🔗

I live in Weymouth and 4 weeks ago the country was aghast at the Covidiots who flocked to the Dorset beaches ignoring antisocial distancing. It was “warned” that these people would start a second wave of infections, and they were told to STAY AWAY, especially in Cornwall. According to the Covid 19 App I contribute to, there are estimated to be 665 active cases per million in Dorset. Where is the second wave? Its in Leicester (purportedly) which is actually just about as far as you can get from the coast in England.

There are less than 3/4 of a million people in Dorset,so the infection rate is probably about 498.75 cases per million. Why did we not get the mythical spike in cases? I have to admit most of them behaved like morons, but they didn’t re-spread Covid19.

54046 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to angryjock, 2, #831 of 996 🔗

Partly because it doesn’t really spread outdoors.

54095 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to angryjock, 2, #832 of 996 🔗

I live near Poole and after the people all came to Bournemouth the amount of people on Facebook starting petitions to stop people travelling again and shouting about second waves and we’re all going to die.

And look miraculously no second wave and no real spike either, at least not locally.

53913 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 20, #833 of 996 🔗

Another unexpected visit to see a GP today, nothing cv19 related, if It was I would probably just done for myself rather than risk my life with people who are petrified of breathing.

After standing outside the front door waiting to be admitted I was forced to use alcohol gel on my hands, previous visit I said no thanks and that was accepted, not this time.

Saw the doc and needed to use a bit of sign language as both wearing masks & my ears being blocked made communication interesting.

Off I ventured, no way out, as the door was locked (I did wonder if they have done a risk assessment in case they have an emergency and people need to leave the building promptly?) The door is clearly marked “Fire Exit”. Maybe I should have used the nearby fire extinguisher to break the door glass.

They would not let me out until I used the alcohol gel again, the nurse who eventually unlocked the door put disposable gloves on to pick up the hand gel, she could have just opened the door, but no I had to do that once it was unlocked. Apparently I could spread “the disease” out into the community. If they are harbouring the disease, they should not be open.

Farcical, Brian Rix could not have made it any more of a comedy.

As for a face covering, I wore a scarf belonging to my wife, no-one commented that I smelt of whatever perfume my wife wears, I thought it was a good talking point, but talking is forbidden in these new times.

But I refuse to be beaten down, I stood and had a nice chat to the next people waiting to be admitted. Always good to turn a negative into a positive, beats talking about the weather, and leaves a little warm glow in my heart when I have tried to gently educate people, especially if you can see they are thinking what I am saying makes sense.

Heads up folks, masks could be the thing which makes more people think about what is happening to them.

53918 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #834 of 996 🔗

Exactly it could be the thing that now makes their life a misery that they were lacking before.

54000 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Farinances, 4, #835 of 996 🔗

And, with the furlough starting to unwind next month, there will shortly be the first of several massive waves of redundancies to really stir up the hornet’s nest – with the government about to be targeted by said hornets!

53936 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #836 of 996 🔗

The fire door – report it to the Fire Brigade.

53948 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, 2, #837 of 996 🔗

For sure – highly illegal to have locked doors.

54031 ▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to JohnB, 1, #838 of 996 🔗

How very sad, to lock the doors from the people who paid for the door so it would always be open to them at the point of need. Disgraceful.

54168 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cruella, #839 of 996 🔗

Exactly. The public sector has forgotten it exists to serve the public.

53939 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #840 of 996 🔗

Brave man to face those horrible zombies!

53956 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #841 of 996 🔗

Masks could indeed be the key as you say. The pretence cannot be kept up forever.

54169 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, #842 of 996 🔗

They must be praying for a second wave. They can’t keep it up for much longer, the cracks are starting to show.

53932 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #843 of 996 🔗

The stories about the elderly and seriously ill are heart breaking. Hope someone pays big time

54014 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #844 of 996 🔗

I am sure the fear instilled in many old people by the authorities of not being able to see their families indefinitely sadly shortened the lives of many.

54026 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Darryl, 1, #845 of 996 🔗

I think you’re right. A very strange philosophy isn’t it? You must live, but how is not important.

53945 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 13, #846 of 996 🔗

The mask wearers, they’re not really wearing them to protect anyone other than themselves are they. Been to the garden centre today, not a mask in sight, apparently they have no intention of enforcing it next week, its not a chain, just a start

53976 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #847 of 996 🔗

Anyone with a valved mask is definitely only wearing it to protect themselves, since valved masks allow for uninterrupted and unfiltered expiration. In which case why haven’t they been banned, if we’re only wearing masks to protect each other?

53946 Will, replying to Will, 4, #848 of 996 🔗

Something that has confused me today is the suggestion from “scientists” that people should be deliberately exposed to this flu to test the efficacy of a vaccine. How can they possibly recommend such a thing for this most deadly plague?

53962 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Will, 1, #849 of 996 🔗

How can they? Because life is cheap to these physcopaths who see others as numerals spewed out of models and trials. Just a means to an end.

53966 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Will, 3, #850 of 996 🔗

Previous endeavours to find a SARS Covid type vaccine resulted in the death of many that had the vaccine and showed anti-bodies and was then exposed to the ‘wild’ virus.

Note to any one participating in these vaccine trails. Make sure that you note your exact state of health and if anything changes even after weeks/months to notify these people but also to make sure to report to the Yellow card Scheme https://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk

In addition if you suffer serious debilitating health effects or death to claim compensation. http://vaccineinjury.uk

53975 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Victoria, 3, #851 of 996 🔗

Did any get as far as human trials? I thought because they all caused this enhancement issue in monkeys they didn’t get that far.

You’re right that this is likely to be the biggest risk with the Covid vaccines.

54009 ▶▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Victoria, 2, #852 of 996 🔗

Unfortunately I know someone who has been part of the Oxford trials. I was quite shocked the person would put themselves in that position especially with a young family, but their viewpoint is it’s for the good of mankind. But who knows perhaps a lot of people that agreed were given a placebo.

54094 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Victoria, #853 of 996 🔗

Claim compensation if you suffer death?

53974 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Will, #854 of 996 🔗

It’s a short step from forced vaccinations to euthenasia, and I suspect all too many doctors (having sworn the Hippocratic oath) would take it.

53995 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to assoc, 1, #855 of 996 🔗

Hmm, so far at least, assisted dying, even of the desperately suffering and terminally ill, seems to be much too compassionate for any of our MPs to allow.

53999 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to assoc, #856 of 996 🔗

In my experience, doctors as a generalisation are the most anti-euthenasia group you will meet outside the Catholic Church.

54019 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to assoc, 1, #857 of 996 🔗

No it isn’t.

54022 ▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Cruella, 1, #858 of 996 🔗

It really isn’t.

54025 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to assoc, #859 of 996 🔗

I think the medical profession have behaved like cowards in the past four months, but no, I don’t think they are murderers.

53978 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Will, #860 of 996 🔗

Anyone as long as it’s not them, I assume. Anyway, I thought no one had actually managed to isolate the virus yet?

I’ve actually got a family member participating in the trials. And she’s elderly too. Crazy!

53993 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Will, 2, #861 of 996 🔗

All volunteers should insist that all involved scientists try it on themselves first – and then ‘chicken’ out!

54008 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to IanE, #862 of 996 🔗

Often surprised people take part in drug trails for very little money after the Northwick Park ‘Elephant Man’ trial a few years ago. The participants got next to nothing for taking part.

53954 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 1, #863 of 996 🔗

Some interesting reading here and would suggest ‘it’ has gone and the current lockdown rules are completely disproportionate…but then again we know that.


53977 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stefarm, 2, #864 of 996 🔗

Death graph in Sweden is almost identical. It’s possible that within the next few weeks Sweden may show Zero new cases of the virus as it’s at a very low level atm.

You’d think that would be evidence that all these interventions are unecessary but somehow I doubt it will get much of a mention.

54004 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, #865 of 996 🔗

I’ll post tomorrow’s hospitalisation stats from here in Sweden as soon as they are released! They are a good indication of how things are progressing; better than number of cases since it is fairly easy to get a test now..

54010 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Carrie, 1, #866 of 996 🔗

The problem is that zero covid is being pushed now and it’s about the only way out unless a vaccine comes along or they admit we can control things without the need for such harsh measures.

53970 JohnB, replying to JohnB, #867 of 996 🔗

Has the advent of the Forums led to posts here being flagged ‘Awaiting Approval’ ?

54059 ▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, #868 of 996 🔗

Not as far as I am aware.

On some forums these things are generated automatically.

I wouldn’t take it too personally if your comment is flagged in this way.

54060 ▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnB, #869 of 996 🔗

usually happens if you put 3 links in….

53973 A. Contrarian, 4, #870 of 996 🔗

Offlands posted a link to these graphs earlier.


Look at the third graph, rate per 10,000 respiratory conditions. Pretty much everything was on the decline even before the 16th March social distancing guidelines, as we’ve seen before. Certainly nothing looked exponential. After 16th March there is a sharp drop in all conditions. By the time we get to lockdown on the 23rd, the decline is already slowing. Evidence that can’t be ignored, surely? Unless your name is Johnson or Hancock.

53981 Victoria, 1, #871 of 996 🔗

Moderna and media manipulate meaning (of first vax trial results)

The airwaves are buzzing over the news of ‘promising’ results from Moderna’s first trial of its mRNA bioengineered vaccine. Moderna stockprices have responded accordingly.

Looking, as we have in our lead story, at the results as published in the New England Journal of Medicine , we see a different story; one showing that the vaccine/media publicity machine has yet to change its spots. How they managed to suggest the trial vaccine has shown itself to be safe when 80% or more of the miniscule group of 45 subjects suffered moderate or severe side effects in two of three doses tested is anyone’s guess. Check out Rob Verkerk’s analysis for yourself. And please help share this breaking story.


53984 Victoria, #872 of 996 🔗

A crash course in resilience: the video
This is the antithesis of a vaccine approach. Our team has worked very hard to create a video that brings home the elephant in the governments’ room. It’s deeply unethical in our book to try to excite the public over a vaccine that might never be found to be safe or effective – and ignore the one thing we know works – and that’s our resilience. You might remember we created an infographic on resilience a few weeks back. Well now, as a true audiovisual experience (yes, headphones help!), you can find out how a relatively innocuous virus has brought our world to a standstill. Our degree of immune resilience has become a marker for how severely we can be affected. And there’s a lot we can do about it – you just won’t hear your government talking about it any time soon, such is the politics and economics of the present day.


53988 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #873 of 996 🔗

The grassroots are getting restless
But people are waking up. For an increasing number, none of this makes sense. Protests are inevitable and they’re picking up – they’re just not widely reported by the mainstream media. That’s the subject of our third piece. On top of all of that, there’s our weekly news and Covid Zone information tracker update.


54002 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Victoria, 2, #874 of 996 🔗

Some are waking up, but judging by my foray to the common & tennis club tonight, lots are still somewhat asleep but from a personal point of view unworried by the virus – relaxed, no distancing, talking loudly in groups, mixing. I think they are the people that need convincing – if there are some important voices shouting loudly enough then I think there are plenty of people who don’t really believe in the seriousness of this pandemic but just haven’t really connected the dots and worked out they’ve been had. I suspect a lot of the type of people I am talking about don’t go on social media as much as the lockdown and mask fanatics.

54159 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #875 of 996 🔗

You’re quite right Julian, but once things such as furlough end, people’s eyes start to open. Then they begin asking questions. And then they catch on. If nothing else, people are very quick to catch on.

People also hate being “had”. Awareness can turn to anger in the blink of an eye. The signs are all there now, and our rulers keep on digging.

I took a train today while my car was having its brakes replaced. In Wales, muzzles on trains are still optional and I went without, but could see the look of surprise in the eyes of muzzled people who had clearly joined the train before the border.

Nobody said anything though, which is perhaps wise of them.

53991 annie, replying to annie, 25, #876 of 996 🔗

An update on the Covid religion.

The Ten Commandments of Covidism

  1. I am Covid thy God and thy disease: thou shalt have none other diseases but me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any hospital treatment, or take any action against any pain or suffering that may be visited on any. Thou shalt not concern thyself with them, nor heal them: for I Covid thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the sufferings of non-Covid patients on them and on their relatives unto the third and fourth generation of them that love them.
  3. Remember that thou art filthy and vile. Thou shalt cover thy face.
  4. Remember the NHS, and clap it wholly.
  5. Isolate thy grandfather and thy grandmother, that their misery and loneliness may be long in the hell that I thy Covid God have created for them.
  6. Thou shalt believe every lie that is fed to thee.
  7. Thou shalt not smile.
  8. Thou shalt live in a state of perpetual terror because of my Second Wave.
  9. Thou shalt bear false witness against thy neighbour.
  10. Thou shalt not visit thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not talk to thy neighbour’s wife, thou shalt not sing, thou shalt not dance, thou shalt not visit a library, nor a theatre, nor a cinema, nor a church, nor shalt thou do anything that thou mightest conceivably enjoy.

53994 ▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, 5, #877 of 996 🔗

A state religion indeed. What’s the point in even bloody living when we’re stuck with this shit forever?

54151 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, #878 of 996 🔗

It won’t be forever. Honestly.

54087 ▶▶ Gracie, replying to annie, #879 of 996 🔗

Thou shalt be mightily praised for thy wit!!

54097 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #880 of 996 🔗

Spooky but so true. This is an offshoot of the Church of the NHS.

54005 Julian, 3, #881 of 996 🔗

I’ve not watched this yet, will watch later, but this is Lord Sumption in an extended interview/webinar that was streamed live last night by the Royal Society of Medicine. I’ve watched another in this series (with Luke Johnson) and they let him speak, and also relayed questions from the live audience (via Zoom).


I think he’s about as powerful an advocate as one could wish for.

54007 John P, replying to John P, 3, #882 of 996 🔗

I’m not sure if anyone has posted regarding the situation in Leicester. Prince Matthew has made a token gesture to his subjects in Leicestershire. Condescending to allow some of the inmates a little freedom, apparently from 24th. Presumably the king approves.

They have redrawn the boundaries. Now it is precisely Leicester city and the borough of Oadby and Wigston that are in the lockdown zone. That takes one of my sisters out of it. My niece now has a chance of receiving some schooling come September, or at least as much as the rest of the country is getting.

My mother has just told me that Oadby and Wigston have been included as 30 people living in one house were tested and found to be infected.

All of them??

I find it hard enough to believe that 30 people would be living under one roof, let alone every single one of them testing positive for the virus. (Sounds a bit fishy to me.) Maybe they were illegals all employed in the city sweatshops garment factories.

The mayor Sir Peter Soulsby has commented that the problem is in one small part of the city. Yes, as I have said before, it is the Asian quarter to the north east of the city centre where most of the testing centres are located.

54024 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to John P, #883 of 996 🔗

John – has the number of total tests v positive tests been published anywhere? Plus number of tests per head of population. Seems plausible that there is simply a lot more testing of asymptomatic people going on in Leicester than the rest of the country

54037 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to The Spingler, #884 of 996 🔗

I’m not aware that they have, but in fairness I may not be fully up to date.

I think it is very very likely that it is the increased testing of asymptomatic people that is driving the numbers up.

But it also has to be said that this is really an issue in a particular locality in the city, and everyone in Leicester knows this.

Leicester is known to be a city with a large Asian population. Off the top of my head it’s about a third of the city. There are some areas, however, where the density of the Asian minority population is very high and other areas where it is very low.

The centres (having mapped them) are all in the high density Asian parts of the city. There are rumours that there are garment sweatshops in that area and they are what a lot of local people are blaming this on.

54044 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to John P, 3, #885 of 996 🔗

But are any of them actually ill?

54047 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #886 of 996 🔗

Almost certainly not.

The hospitals are not seeing an increase in covid patients. My brother in law’s sister worked on a covid ward in the city until about six weeks ago, when she was transferred back to her old job as a cardiologist (specialist nurse).

The bitter irony is that when she worked on the ward, Leicester’s covid19 hospital admission rate was so low that they would transfer patients from other parts of the Midlands.

54049 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to John P, 2, #887 of 996 🔗

As I suspected.

54015 DRW, replying to DRW, 8, #888 of 996 🔗

Interesting article: https://www.aier.org/article/when-will-the-madness-end
I’m worried it’s not when but if…

54023 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to DRW, 2, #889 of 996 🔗

Absolutely terrific post.

You should email this to Toby to make sure he sees it. This needs highlighting in a major way.

54068 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to DRW, 1, #890 of 996 🔗

I’d like to think it will end… that enough people will wake up to what is going on!

I found this today, I don’t know if you have all seen it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7I5LzLgNSI&feature=youtu.be

It was new to me anyway, even though I knew about event 201.

Description of the video (from underneath it): Major documentary confirmation of something many of us have come to know for certain in recent times: the entire COVID-19 world-shutdown is part of a live training and simulation exercise run by the unscrupulous WHO and United Nations, as documented in their Global Preparedness Monitoring Board’s annual 2019 report and their International Health Regulations treaty of 2005—which 194/or 196 countries signed off on—which pretty much establishes a Global Government (of the WHO & United Nations, & the high-level international GMPB) along with their sponsors, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Wellcome Trust, & other unnamed donors.

I had seen the little extract with Mike Pompeo that appears approx 6 mins 50 secs into this, where they let slip that this is a ‘live exercise’, but did not realise that all the information we need is actually on the WHO’s website!

If it is all true, that this is a ‘live simulation exercise’, then it would explain the chaotic handling of it and why at times the government (and others) seem to be saying stuff that it looks like they do not really believe, and why UK column talk of a ‘coup’ having taken place…

54069 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DRW, #891 of 996 🔗

Thanks for the link. Very good article. I have the Madness of Crowds book – bought by my husband during the DotCom bubble!

54105 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to DRW, #892 of 996 🔗
54020 Gtec, replying to Gtec, 19, #893 of 996 🔗

I’ve never believed in conspiracy theories, but the continual screwing down of everyday life, especially with face masks now and for no good reason, by governments seemingly everywhere, really begins to make me wonder just what is going on.

There is never an end date, never any definite criteria about when any of these restrictions will end or be lifted; there is never any actual, definite evidence presented about why we should do this or that.

The ‘science’ often seems more like conjecture, based on very flimsy or inaccurate and exaggerated projections.

Yet more and more of our daily lives become constricted, more abnormal than ever, yet, apparently things have ‘eased’ and things are returning to ‘normal’.

But it is a very strange kind of normal – more Alice in Wonderland than a Wonderful Life!

Either its an authoritarian grab for power by politicians everywhere (have they formed a secret cabal?), they all know something about this that we don’t (it’s really an alien pathogen and we’re doomed, all doomed!), or they’ve all just cocked it up – but can’t all be that thick, surely?

Perhaps I’ll just go with incompetence; let’s face it, the quality of politicians everywhere is pretty poor when you look back and compare them with the past, and not just here either.

In which case, we only have ourselves to blame – what a thought!

54041 ▶▶ John P, replying to Gtec, 9, #894 of 996 🔗

I’ve always taken the view that most politicians are people of limited ability who would just love to boss everyone around if only they could, and that the “checks and balances” in our former democracy were designed to limit these ambitions.

In March the media began a terror campaign which also affected these politicians and this led to the people themselves voluntarily giving up their rights, more or less begging the government to assume direct control over our lives.

Hence the Coronavirus Act, which was (no surprise) opposed by no politician of any political persuasion.

I agree, we only have ourselves to blame!

54100 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to John P, 5, #895 of 996 🔗

This is one of the things that particularly gets my goat. The press (the media) are supposed to be one of the checks on the actions of the state in a democratic society. Along with the judiciary and the opposition, ther job is to hold the government to account, to question them, to investigate them, to point out when they’re making the wrong decisions or taking a direction that isn’t in the interests of the country.

They’ve done a good job of this to the casual observer (“why weren’t you faster with PPE or testing”) but you barely need to pay any attention to realise that it’s revolting how little they’ve questioned the whole policy.

I think this is one of the worst things about the whole procedure. The press has a responsibility and they’ve failed.

54124 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to matt, 3, #896 of 996 🔗

The media often acts as the mouthpiece of government propaganda, matt.

There are principled journalists such as Peter Hitchens and our own Toby Young, but many of them are servile hacks.

54132 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to John P, #897 of 996 🔗

“Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely.” (Lord Acton)

54064 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gtec, 4, #898 of 996 🔗

This is an interesting thread on Francis Hoar’s Twitter, about countries being bribed by the International Monetary Fund to introduce quarantine and other measures : https://twitter.com/NikolovScience/status/1283529642943451136

54130 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Carrie, 3, #899 of 996 🔗

Remarkable.They will give money on condition that Belarus copy the Italian Covid-19 model but Lukashenko says no.Look att covibes org site to see how good the figures are in Belarus.Much better than UK but you will never see this in MSM/BBC

54077 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Gtec, #900 of 996 🔗

I prefer not to think of conspiracy theories as I find those rather scary to think about.

And also not all countries have followed the same path, Sweden, Tanzania, Belarus why is that?

Politicians and top civil servants don’t live in the real world so they have no idea what they see as good interventions on the people who put them in power.

54086 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to ambwozere, 3, #901 of 996 🔗

Yes, there are a few exceptions. However, is not remarkable just how many nations are implementing almost identical measures despite having wildly varying numbers of cases/deaths? Even countries with almost no cases of Covid at all are falling into line.

54244 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Chicot, #902 of 996 🔗

Surprised not one journalist is prepared to take it on, get their teeth into the reason. In the past we have always had 1 or 2 prepared to do it.

54161 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Gtec, #903 of 996 🔗

This is completely the wrong way round. The reason we have a lockdown is because of the power of the broadcast media (the BBC). No politician could withstand the accusation of failing to prevent death or, even worse, actively killing people. The politicians are simply terrified of the media. As ye shall sow, so shall ye reap. We are reaping the whirlwind of our guardians in the BBC.

54205 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 1, #904 of 996 🔗

The BBC have certainly been a force for darkness in this whole business, but they are either despised or mistrusted by many, especially those on the political right and Brexit supporters

The government had a fair bit of political capital at its disposal that would have enabled it to lead rather than follow

The government chose to disseminate fear propaganda through TV and newspapers and social media, which helped bring all of those forces to supporting the government line

I am not saying it would have been easy, but it wasn’t attempted and it has been shown how easily led we are

The Swedish authorities have managed it – I’m sure they have faced much criticism from within Sweden, but there has not been rioting as far as I know. Are Swedes so much more freedom loving and sceptical than we are, or were they just fortunate?

Ultimately the government had a choice and have had many opportunities since to steer back to sanity but have done the exact opposite- Leicester and face masks being the most egregious examples

They are guilty

54027 Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 9, #905 of 996 🔗

Good visit to the pub, no details taken but I suppose paying by card could potentially be a tracking system.

The landlord seemed very sceptical, plenty of people in the garden and a few inside. I still don’t fully understand how a one way system really makes any difference with passing tables with people and using the toilets. Of course it’s BS it’s just why does no one see this?

Made up for talking to a couple of colleagues via web conference, still worried about going out or into the office etc.

But even if not engaging in open conversation about it, the kids have been out to other family homes or had people back here or visits to the park. It feels like a lot of people can’t be bothered anymore with all the “rules” sort of a silent protest, it remains to be seen if it will be enough.

54030 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 3, #906 of 996 🔗

With noting that some of these families have included people who are NHS staff (GPs and a consultant) they are not bothered at all with social distancing when I have gone round.

54036 mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #907 of 996 🔗

i commented a few minutes ago but this needs a posting .
BBC Panorama – Lifting the Lockdown. 7.30.. Accidentally flicked onto this ..
What a load of sh*te and shows BBC at its worst…. Panorama with background music?
You should watch it just to see how bad it is …

54043 ▶▶ John P, replying to mjr, 1, #908 of 996 🔗

I’ll take your word for it.

54045 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to mjr, 4, #909 of 996 🔗

I could always break the law and watch it, but I won’t bother!

54051 DaisyT, replying to DaisyT, 2, #910 of 996 🔗

I’ve been a silent reader for many weeks but have never posted before.

Just wanted to flag something on Antibody testing through the NHS.

Today my sister saw her GP who has arranged for some blood work to be done. Her GP told her she’ll also be asked if she’d like to get antibody testing done at the same time. As my sister was really ill with all the classic COVID symptoms back in early March, before lockdown, but obviously wasn’t allowed to be tested, her doctor said she’d be very intersted to see if she does indeed have antibodies as she’s convinced my sister had the virus.

However, she told my sister that as a doctor she has opted herself to NOT have antibody testing done, as most don’t realise that if your antibody test comes back negative this could have lasting effects in the future for health insurance, life insurance, travel insurance, even mortgages! Sadly my sister didn’t question her GP futher as she was very taken a back.
This has been really startling. WHY would testing positive or negative for a virus be so important for insurance etc? It makes you question what is really going on in all this.
I’m thankful my sister has an honest GP as some GPs might not be as forthright with their patients!
Needless to say my sister has opted to not get the testing done (at least through the NHS) even though she’s curious to know whether she did have the virus.

54202 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to DaisyT, #911 of 996 🔗

Interesting…think there was a typo with your first “negative” – should read “positive”?

54052 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #912 of 996 🔗

I can’t get the comments button to refresh, to show the newest input.

54058 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to thedarkhorse, #913 of 996 🔗

close the page and open again

54201 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Victoria, #914 of 996 🔗

Done that and doesn’t work.

54065 Yaffle, #915 of 996 🔗

Tesco, JD Sports and Lidl have all announced they won’t enforce the new edict.”

Where are you getting this from Toby? The Mirror yesterday reported Tesco saying “ customers in England will need to wear a face covering when visiting our stores”.

54067 Paul, replying to Paul, 1, #916 of 996 🔗

The madness never ends,a small plane has just flown over our house towing a banner saying ’72 Love NHS’.

54080 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Paul, 4, #917 of 996 🔗

I am going to hire a plane with a banner that says “I used to love The NHS, prior to cv19”

54096 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #918 of 996 🔗

Careful. You’ll lose your job.

54070 John P, replying to John P, 15, #919 of 996 🔗

This is both shocking and fascinating.

“Why no-one can ever recover from COVID-19 in England – a statistical anomaly” July 16, 2020 (Yoon K Loke, Carl Heneghan)


Prof Karol Sikora has commented:

“I read this and was appalled. It’s from Oxford’s CEBM & two very talented Professors. I just can’t believe PHE could be so incompetent – it’s scandalous. Read for yourselves. Judgement reserved until PHE comment.”

54081 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to John P, 7, #920 of 996 🔗

Amazing. Almost as if they were deliberately trying to inflate the figures.

54089 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #921 of 996 🔗

Better a few thousand more deaths than having to admit that they backed the wrong horse, Sweden got it right and we have atomised our economy and health system unnecessarily.

54115 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to John P, 1, #922 of 996 🔗

Wonder the reaction I’d get if I posted this to my social media, even though it’s clearly accurate. So many keyboard warriors on my Facebook + I’ve already had to remove some since this all kicked off

54118 ▶▶ assoc, replying to John P, 1, #923 of 996 🔗

Yes, I follow the worldometers.info site, which gives stats for all countries, and have wondered why Britain is almost unique in being a country where no-one ever officially recovers from the virus. Very curious

54119 ▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 4, #924 of 996 🔗

I note that the CEBM site is currently stalling/offline.

They previously have highlighted the discrepancy between PHE and ONS figures.

Those of us who have dug into all-cause mortality have known for three months that the Covid-19 story was vastly exaggerated.

We currently have a measure being put in place that is totally unjustified by any coherent research or infection/mortality figures.

Join up the dots and smell the cof…. sorry …. sewage!

54135 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to RickH, #925 of 996 🔗

It seems to be now loading, but slowly. I wonder if this is getting the attention it deserves? CEBM have been a shining light throughout.

54125 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to John P, 2, #926 of 996 🔗

Prof Heneghan suggest a time limit of 21 days from lab detection and death as a reasonable to be included as a Covid-19 death. Sweden has a time limit of 30 days from lab detection to death as Covid-19 case. PHE open ended is remarkable, considering that many elderly in March and April, being  successfully treated in hospital and discharged, could have died of the underlying disease 2-3 months later in large numbers.

54138 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to John P, 2, #927 of 996 🔗

Hypothetical: If government actions caused people to die, how convenient it would be if those deaths were marked down as COVID deaths.

54082 Ruth Sharpe, 3, #928 of 996 🔗

I’ve just been having a closer look through the Law or Fiction site and thought people might be interested in this little nugget: http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/06/fast-passes-and-discounts-for-the-brave/ . What was Peter Hitchens saying at the weekend?

54085 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 12, #929 of 996 🔗

The parallel between the Mask Idiocy and the Poll Tax debacle occurred to me as well when trying to think of an equalling appalling own goal, an equally bad political decision.

There’s similar pathos as well. Margaret Thatcher clearly thought the poll tax fair and essential to good local governance; she also believed it would be a popular measure. Johnson seems similarly deluded. Unless he’s just lying it appears he genuinely thinks it will reduce anxiety and increase footfall on the High Street.

I was in a large supermarket today outside London. Probably 80-90% of shoppers had no face mask on and we’re nearly back to normal in termof social distancing. They will not welcome being made to wear stifling masks in the middle of summer. Once it becomes apparent that mandatory masks are causing a reduction in footfall, Johnson will have nowhere to hide.

54108 ▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, 2, #930 of 996 🔗

Unless he’s just lying”

Weeell ….it is his only skill.

54098 Linda B, replying to Linda B, 31, #931 of 996 🔗

The Government, like others made mistakes. I think most people know that but when it became clear that the virus was not as bad as they believed or were led to believe they should have had the moral courage to stand up and admit they were wrong and call a halt to the absurd lockdown that is destroying the country. They are now perpetuating their mistakes and consequently perpetuating fear. This mask fiasco is the final straw – I, as others have said, am ashamed of our government, one, I sadly voted for. They remove our civil liberties on a whim or to bow to the latest media pressure — It is truly sad to see our once proud brave nation who stood up for freedom when they fought ww1 and ww1 bow down to this removal of our freedoms without so much as a wimpier – let alone a roar of defiance is a tragedy indeed. A lifelong Tory — I will not be voting for Conservative again –

54126 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Linda B, 3, #932 of 996 🔗

Unless we get our act together, we won’t be voting for anyone again –

54141 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to JohnB, #933 of 996 🔗

I’ll vote for you, JohnB.

54215 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Linda B, 1, #934 of 996 🔗

I certainly won’t be voting Conservative ever again and I’ve written to the Party to tell them so.

54103 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #935 of 996 🔗

Todays Vernon Coleman
Mask wearers are collaborators
Very good to share.

54140 ▶▶ John P, replying to Basics, 1, #936 of 996 🔗


54109 Dave #KBF, #937 of 996 🔗

Anyone here listen to the No Agenda Podcast?

It is a bit alternative, it is funded by its listeners, US based, but they do cover UK one of the presenters lived here in the UK.

Worth a listen if you can spare the time.

54111 Mimi, #938 of 996 🔗

Now that I get all my news from Twitter (haha – I also get it from Lockdown Sceptics!), here’s an excellent report on hydroxychloroquine from the estimable Gummi Bear. Conclusion: it looks like it’s an effective treatment of the dread COVID, especially as seen in the results of countries that use it to treat early: https://twitter.com/gummibear737/status/1283840177497088001

Also, Alex Berenson’s reporting has been on fire today. He is a hero! Just like Toby! https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson

54112 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 17, #939 of 996 🔗

Urrrrghhh! Those virtue-signalling TV ads from Amazon. “I’m Helen and I used to be in the military.”
“I’m Kevin. I wear a mask, gloves. Protect the NHS and key workers.”
Vomit inducing. I hate them sooooo much!!!! 🤢 🤮 🤮

54117 ▶▶ Nottingham69, replying to RDawg, #940 of 996 🔗

It won’t dent Bezos much but I will never use them ever again. Anyone but Amazon

54127 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to RDawg, 2, #941 of 996 🔗

Me too, and I’m a Kevin! Why do they use Kevin so much?!!

54131 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Moomin, 2, #942 of 996 🔗

Kevins have it easy !

In the US, a toilet is a John.
As is a prostitute’s client.
Get dumped, you get a Dear John letter.
A condom is a rubber Johnny
An anonymous corpse is John Doe.

I’ve probably internalised the others, so can’t remember them. 🙂

54192 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Moomin, #943 of 996 🔗

Whatever happened to Donna’s Cakes?

54144 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RDawg, #944 of 996 🔗

Sounds awful! I don’t watch any commercial tv and miss all this stuff. Bliss!

54172 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to RDawg, 2, #945 of 996 🔗

The one on the radio with the female bus driver instructing everyone to wear their mask is cringe inducing tripe

54114 Nick Rose, 1, #946 of 996 🔗

Has anybody sussed out who today’s visitor from 77th Brigade is?

54120 smileymiley, #947 of 996 🔗
54121 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #948 of 996 🔗

Guardian (free) report about the Randox covid testing kits


Just to point out 33 in the article. Because that is is a recurring number as already pointed out.

I believe the tests might give people at large (!) cause to think on about vaccine safety. Its a good oppotunity to raise safety aspects of badly tested medical measures.

54133 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 6, #949 of 996 🔗

The essential question about any supposed vaccine for Covid is why anyone in their right mind and in reasonable health would even consider an under-tested concoction of dubious provenance for a mild infection.

54162 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 3, #950 of 996 🔗

The answer will come back: “but it will help the elderly”…Time to get real! Vaccines don’t make old people’s lungs young again. We really are playing with fire here.

Leaving aside the issue of how many old people suffer serious illness after receiving the vaccine (answer: a lot), if we succeed in eliminating “traditional” pathogens such as flu viruses and coronaviruses from old people’s lungs we are then leaving that inviting environmental niche (warm, watery and defenceless) open to novel pathogens which could have really horrendous effects on society (far far worse than this rather ineffective pathogen). A novel virus might emerge that is able to attack the young and healthy as did the Spanish Flu virus of 1918-19.

54122 Emma, replying to Emma, 9, #951 of 996 🔗

I live in Herefordshire, where there has been an ‘outbreak’ on a fruit and veg farm amongst the seasonal workforce.Now apparently we have the 4th highest rate of infections in the country, and the local paper is wetting itself with an abundance of Covid-fear updates. 93 ‘cases’ were recorded on the farm. But talking to the physiotherapist at my GP surgery, (who is not allowed to see me face to face, and my frozen shoulder gets worse and worse) I was told that the hospital now has no Covid patients at all, none. The Wye Valley health authority however still prevents him carrying out his job and seeing patients, because of the risk.

54157 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Emma, 4, #952 of 996 🔗

Farm workers aged under 50 very unlikely to suffer more than cold symptoms. The media are hysterical. They react to everything like female characters in an old 50s movie: SCREAM!!!!!

54185 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Emma, #953 of 996 🔗

This hysteria has led to a cancelling of a series of drive concerts here. Big firgetable names were due to appear in a month of concerts at the local show ground. But ‘fears’ of a Leicester lockdown have caused tge organisers to cancel. Sitting in your car in a car park with 100s of others looking at a brightly lit stage in the far distance is now too much. I wonder what the bookings actually were…

54214 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Emma, 1, #954 of 996 🔗

Emma, forget the GP & standard physio if you have a frozen shoulder. I had two, both sides, one after the other in 2003/2004 and the only treatment that really worked was that developed by Simeon Neil Asher. People used to fly in from all over the world to his clinic in Highgate, London. It was a mixture of pressure points and manipulation techniques, and it worked! He cured both my frozen shoulders in a very short space of time. They were SO painful! He was training new practitioners at the time all over the U.K. so you may find one near you. GPs don’t have a clue.

54123 Kath Andrews, replying to Kath Andrews, #955 of 996 🔗

I can’t log on at all, want to, but not possible – help! Kath

54142 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Kath Andrews, #956 of 996 🔗

I struggled for a while. Looks like its been abandoned for now.

54128 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 2, #957 of 996 🔗

Mason Mills on twitter says vaccine will not be mandatory. Hope he’s right. I have objections to being injected with stuff developed from foetal cell line and tested on humanised mice (poor bastards). I also object to certification. Bill Barr in US has already said certification would be a civil rights issue. But then Americans still have civil rights! I suspect our government is proceeding with stealth on this because they know many people won’t like it. You know – baby steps…

54129 ▶▶ John P, replying to Bugle, #958 of 996 🔗

Err, I’m not sure that Mason Mills’ comment on twitter is definitive …

54134 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to John P, 1, #959 of 996 🔗

Since the only sources of real information are outside MSM, it’s a little bit counter productive to keep putting sources ‘beyond the pale’. Many people think it is definitive, others probably don’t. Read it, compare with other sources, make up your own mind.

54139 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bugle, 1, #960 of 996 🔗

I have no opinion on the matter as yet.

Whatever the government decides I intend to say “no” to any coronavirus vaccine.

54137 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Bugle, 1, #961 of 996 🔗

“Vaccine will not be mandatory.” Sounds good, doesn’t it?

Wait a minute…….

THEN they drop the other shoe:

“However you will need to have a valid Certificate of Vaccination to get a bank account, a credit card, a driving licence, a passport, a mortgage, insurance, a job…..but you are free to refuse the vaccine if you wish.”

54158 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Gracie Knoll, 1, #962 of 996 🔗

I doubt such a scenario would come to pass – but the world has gone mad, so who knows? Why would you possibly need such a certificate to get a driving licence, for example?

54184 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, #963 of 996 🔗

You would need the certificate so you can sit next to the examiner whilst taking the test, or take your theory test at the test center where there are other people you could spread it to.

54147 ▶▶ Roadrash, replying to Alan Billingsley, 2, #965 of 996 🔗

I came across this earlier. From what I understand the tests for Covid generally do not distinguish between types of Corona virus. So many are returning false positives. Added to the fact that post-mortems on patients that tested positive weren’t being carried out to establish the true cause of death and now the revelation that a death at any time is counted as a Covid fatality regardless of whether the patient had previously recovered or even been symptomatic, means the statistics are completely unreliable. Yet lockdown policy is being driven by this garbage. It’s either gross incompetence by this Government or deliberate.

54150 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Roadrash, 3, #966 of 996 🔗

Leaning towards deliberate!

54256 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #967 of 996 🔗


54166 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Roadrash, 1, #968 of 996 🔗

Doesn’t even need to that high a false +ve rate. It you are testing 100k people a day. 1% is a 1000 false positives. As testing Ramps up more false readings

54190 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Roadrash, #969 of 996 🔗

It will be interesting to see what PHE have to say about this, seems ludicrous. Thanks John P!
But on the other points, it would be cruel to the relatives to postpone the death cert by requiring a post mortem on an elderly person, likely with dementia, when it’s obvious they died of one or more long standing complaints, and CV19 or flu or pneumonia or something was the ultimate last straw. (Not that a post mortem would ascertain CV19, any more than it would a cold, presumably you mean in order to establish some physical co morbidity?)
Death certs in UK scrupulously record all the contributory causes of death and ONS stats count and distinguish between deaths with and of (solely) CV19.
Re false positives, see earlier contributions from guy153, I think he’s given up putting people straight about this because it got so repetitive. Why do you think tests don’t distinguish between types of Corona virus?

54148 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Alan Billingsley, 3, #970 of 996 🔗

This is the killer point:

In summary, PHE’s definition of the daily death figures means that everyone who has ever had COVID at any time must die with COVID too. So, the COVID death toll in Britain up to July 2020 will eventually exceed 290k, if the follow-up of every test-positive patient is of long enough duration.

So, the more testing (think Leicester, Malvern vegetable farm etc) the more potential to keep this whole shit show going into the autumn with the ‘scare’ of new deaths until we get to the next lockdown. ICL Model QED!

54152 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #971 of 996 🔗

We’ve always known about the essential inaccuracy of the data – because of the corruption of the death certification process. But this is another layer of potential falsification that underlines the fictional nature of the panicdemic.

54145 RickH, replying to RickH, 5, #972 of 996 🔗

I tend not to watch/listen to any MSM sources for news, since the narrative is so entirely compromised.

But – has anyone picked up whether what should be in bold headlines – namely the Oxford Centre for Evidence Based Medicine’s revelation about PHE essentially making up Covid-19 mortality figures [https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/why-no-one-can-ever-recover-from-covid-19-in-england-a-statistical-anomaly/] has been reported?

Clearly, it’s an accusation that raises massive issues for any real journalist/news outlet. It’s treatment will be a defining moment for any residual credibility for the main news outlets.

54146 ▶▶ John P, replying to RickH, #973 of 996 🔗

I posted it here earlier.

54149 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to John P, 1, #974 of 996 🔗

I know. However my question is about MSM coverage of a major potential falsification of key data by a public body.

54189 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to RickH, #975 of 996 🔗

The majority of the msm are so tied to coronavirus is the new black death and lockdown is the only choice narrative, they will not publish anything which goes against it.

54163 ▶▶ steve, replying to RickH, #976 of 996 🔗

Just read that. If it wasn’t so stupid it would be hilarious. A £squillion A months over dodgy data. Ffs

54154 Cheezilla, #977 of 996 🔗

Today was my first outing for anything but food shopping and bottle bank (blush) since March.

My friend and I visited our favourite little village cafe. We were greeted with “Please will you wait there (people paying cause a bottle neck and prevent antisocial distancing). Please sign in, please gel your hands, there’s a table free in the corner.”

I asked the owner if we could sit near the door as it gets a bit steamy. She explained that the table near the door was too near an occupied table, so we wouldn’t be doing social distancing. I assured her that I didn’t want to do anything that would get her into trouble.

“It’s ridiculous isn’t it?” she said. “I’ll be glad when it’s all back to normal!”

It’s normally a very relaxed, happy sort of place but she was clearly on edge. I read on the cafe facebook page a couple of weeks ago, when they were still only allowed to do takeaways, that someone had shopped her for not having a red chopping board in her kitchen. Poor love – I doubt she preps any raw meat in there!

She’s had to take out some tables, so they are now only for two people – good job our friend hadn’t come with us! There was plastic film hanging between each table and I reckon she’ll be lucky to get eight customers in at once. It was a real squeeze before but we used to get nearly twice as many in there. I really hope she can stay in business!

All otherwise pretty normal – except for one woman who put on a mask to go to the toilet!

Food great, coffee excellent, catchup with friend felt almost like old times.

54160 steve, 2, #978 of 996 🔗

“By this PHE definition, no one with COVID in England is allowed to ever recover from their illness. A patient who has tested positive, but successfully treated and discharged from hospital, will still be counted as a COVID death even if they had a heart attack or were run over by a bus three months later.

This why the PHE figures vary substantially from day to day. For example, 16 new deaths were announced on 6th July, but the following day, 152 were reported – today’s figure is 66.”
😂 😂 😆

54167 Basics, #979 of 996 🔗
54176 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #980 of 996 🔗

Guess how many have died in the US of Covid-19 Feb- 11 July in the age below 15?
31 in a population of 61 million.(CDC statistics). I think they have double that for flu this year!
And many want to delay opening schools. Insanity but most likely this is now pure politics.

54419 ▶▶ Binra, replying to swedenborg, #981 of 996 🔗

The term ‘politics’ might be expanded – for surely you mean a power grab or act of force majeure – albeit by trojan pretext. As distinct from fundraising for the Labour Party.

54179 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 3, #982 of 996 🔗

I have ordered an ‘Exempt’ badge, just in case I can’t be bothered to argue on the day. Unlikely, I admit.

The charriddee that sends them out sent me a letter today saying they’re a bit overwhelmed. 10,000 people have ordered them already from this one source, and there are many. Yet the fucking focus groups that lead the government by the nose reckon only 30% will want to go back to normal procedures. A lot of people beg to differ.

54187 ▶▶ Basics, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #983 of 996 🔗

See the edinburgh live link below. Hoardes are buying up these badges. Lots of money to be made is the edinburgh live story. Same deal. People are getting around. Its un policeable. But is this going to used later for the reasoning for verified ID system? Or is it a complete oversight by the overlords?

54463 ▶▶ Binra, replying to James Leary #KBF, #984 of 996 🔗

Shaping ‘information’ is leading a false witness.
Any emotional reaction will effect invested identity and that identity can be fed, nudged, shaped and directed.
The public-private ‘partnership’ (sic) can be sketched as a Gated government – though Gates is a poster-boy for a much larger movement of invested self-interest set in terms of maintaining and consolidating possession and control. Monopolism masked as global concerns that uses doublespeak as its default.
Fragmentation is the means by which to compartmentalise into a mess of obfuscation through which to effect control under plausible deniability or maximal cloaking.
It’s all very well to be exasperated with our world but do we judge it from the same ‘self-exceptionalism’ that we cry ‘Foul!’ in others? I don’t say that to deflect or deny accountability and responsibility – but to note that the collective is represented in its structures of social organisation – not as personal opinions or views but as the structure of consciousness currently operating.
For the most part persons in their world are not aware of the internalised structure of thought and belief, or socially required ‘agreements or definitions’ FROM which our human or social and political world operates.
The idea of the ‘Reset’ is of a private group manipulating this ‘template’ to remake the ‘world’ in their own image or to serve their own purposes.
I suggest that we all seek to manipulate or control our consciousness, and our experience as a result of losing coherency of being to conflict and fear of pain and loss. It only feeds the fear by masking over it as the defence set against an externally projected ‘threat, enemy or scapegoat’.
The capacity to split our mind and persist under masking narrative is the mind of grievance and attack or a mythic and dramatic representation of Life’s Wholeness, cast in fragments and indeed figments of an enraged or terrified imagination – given power.
That last bit is the key. What we give energy, attention and therefore value to is given power.
The idea of a Reset as a spontaneity of aligning in truth by recognising and releasing false or outworn and useless identities is allowing wholeness of being or Life – to restore a true foundation that we have masked over – and as a masked mind CANNOT OF OURSELVES RESTORE – but can only persist in under increasing burden of conflicted limitation to be ‘normalised’ until of course the capacity of such structures to serve ANY kind of Life gives way to a true Rest, Refreshment, Regeneration and Renewal – that rises as a living and shared gift – instead of a technocratic mimicry of life as ‘controlled sharing’ (sic).

54180 Nobody2020, 1, #985 of 996 🔗

Good Tweet on why schools should open.

dr mark mcdonald who convinced the orange county school board to re-open schools without masks or social distancing


Image attached for those not on Twitter.

54182 swedenborg, 2, #986 of 996 🔗

This is a very interesting graph CFR in the ongoing C-19 pandemic. Compare UK and Sweden.
What happened in the end of May in Sweden? They started massive testing of mostly mild cases and many asymptomatic persons in screening .And the CFR drops close to Ireland crossing Netherlands and Spain and leaving UK, France, Belgium at the top.
But according to CBS US very bad in Sweden according to their report 16th July.
And most people follow MSM

54194 A13, replying to A13, 2, #987 of 996 🔗

Interesting story from another paramedic – empty hospitals, no covid patients, staff with nothing to do.

54204 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A13, 1, #988 of 996 🔗

Interesting read, I was out and about, key worker, throughout lockdown and used the hospital toilets (public ones all closed), never any ambulances at the main entrance, A&E or maternity even though they were always on the road with sirens wailing despite there being no other traffic ie solely to induce fear in the lockdown population.

All NHS staff have been threatened with the sack if they talk to the press or on social media about what has, not, been going on in the hospitals.

54543 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #989 of 996 🔗

My Mum was admitted to hospital yesterday due to heart problems. Overnight she was the ONLY patient on the ward – and despite this, they made her wear a face mask. Which seemed stupid, especially seeing as her main symptom (from heart issues) is breathlessness…

54196 Covid_Skeptic, #990 of 996 🔗

Breaking News (or is it?): Deaths Through Fear Exceed Deaths From Covid. Of the half-million fewer NHS emergency admissions in Lockdown, c27K would have died anyway. Leaving >450K untreated due to fear. How many of these died through lack of treatment? Do check my figures & shout if they’re wrong.

Total emergency admissions, England, Mar-Jun 2019: 2,166,866
Total emergency admissions, England, Mar-Jun 2020: 1,590,444
576,422 fewer total emergency admissions in Mar-Jun 2020 than Mar-Jun 2019. On average 4.7% of emergency admissions (27,092) result in death within 30 days (weekdays; more at weekends – see Lancet, 1/7/17) and so presumably 95.3% of admissions (549,300) are successfully treated. Of those who could have been successfully treated, I wonder how many died, as a result of not going to hospital from fear of Covid? Could this go some way to explaining excess deaths Mar-Jun ’20??

Refs: https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/ae-waiting-times-and-activity/ae-attendances-and-emergency-admissions-2020-21/


54203 Jane, #991 of 996 🔗

well, the next domino has toppled over here—total madness.
All covid all the time; no other news! West Tisbury is a rural town with practically no town center. So . . . masks while driving? Hiking? They want us to wear a mask at the beach! The town is to be defaced with “mask signage.” Where will it end? Meanwhile no one has even heard of The Great Reset, they are so obsessed with their mask wearing.

54250 Dan Clarke, #992 of 996 🔗

Is ‘Trust Stamp’ the reason for this hoax

54258 Basics, #993 of 996 🔗

£3bn more for NHS England to get them through the winter. Setting the scene for yet more to be given to devolved NHSs.

“The funds will be available to NHS England immediately, and are expected to be used to keep the emergency Nightingale hospitals open until March, and increase testing capacity to the 500,000 a day he had previously promised.” The guardian

There are signs the Great British Public has the gov on the ropes because use of transport is not picking up as the political ‘people and our civil ‘servns’ expected.

“Ministers are concerned that public fear about a renewed rise in coronavirus cases is deterring them from venturing out. Use of public transport has been less than expected since services were increased.” The guardian

54278 Dan Clarke, 1, #994 of 996 🔗

My MP asked me why I was bothered about a temporary measure, but when asked the question how temporary, no reply. Only saw 1 mask at the large local garden centre yesterday and they’ve opened up a cafe, hope it doesn’t return to the dark ages next week due to pressure, lots of large outlets are saying they will not enforce it

54412 Binra, #995 of 996 🔗

I’ve just received a stern telling off for not wearing a mask on the tube by a crazy masked lady with a posh voice telling me she’s lost six (I tell you six!) family members to the “virus”. I must admit I was left a bit lost for words but obviously still mask free. What should my response have been?

My best response:

“If you believe you have a valid point of view worthy of sharing with others, please consider treating others with courtesy by engaging in communication with respect.

I question what I am told by the WHO, by the media, by politicians and their selected experts, and I make up my own mind with reference to all the resources I have available to me – not least of which is an inherent distrust of anyone in any situation who incites and insinuates fear and guilt to leverage invested reaction and compliance to a masked agenda”.

This was my second response – after realising that my first had suffered the fate of being FRAMED in reaction. For the full picture see:

54430 swedenborg, 1, #996 of 996 🔗


This is interesting US figures from CDC. You can see that for below 25 years almost zero risk of dying in this pandemic. But even more interesting is the declining death rate even amongst elderly during the last weeks. Either better treatment or perhaps more likely,infection is getting less deadly in line with reports from Italy.
In the last three weeks risk of dying below 45 almost zero 45-54 same risk as flu and only for >55 more deadly than flu but not that much


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65IanE4, 3, 10, 4, 6, 1, 2, 9, 1, 3, 10, 2, 0, 2, 0, 1, 4, 1, 2
63stefarm17, 0, 2, 8, 2, 4, 0, 2, 9, 0, 6, 3, 0, 9, 1
60Cicatriz21, 2, 4, 1, 1, 2, 0, 2, 3, 0, 5, 8, 2, 6, 5, 3, 13
59CarrieAH18, 4, 7, 2, 1, 4, 17, 4, 1, 1
58Cecil B12, 2, 1, 3, 7, 7, 21, 5, 0
55Mike Smith16, 20, 9, 8, 2
50Sam Vimes2, 5, 5, 0, 2, 0, 3, 4, 13, 8, 2, 3, 1, 2
50John P1, 4, 4, 2, 0, 2, 0, 0, 3, 0, 4, 9, 3, 1, 15, 1, 0, 1, 0
48wendy3, 4, 7, 13, 3, 2, 11, 5
45Bugle1, 5, 1, 9, 2, 3, 4, 0, 0, 4, 7, 0, 5, 1, 0, 0, 2, 1
44Tyneside Tigress5, 14, 11, 1, 2, 1, 1, 3, 0, 3, 3
43Polemon221, 0, 16, 5, 2, 7, 9, 1
41stewart7, 0, 3, 2, 1, 3, 0, 1, 5, 2, 0, 17
40Awkward Git8, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 0, 0, 3, 2, 1, 10, 3, 1, 0, 5
36Mark II5, 6, 2, 8, 1, 1, 0, 5, 8
35Margaret416, 3, 1, 0, 11
34SanityISstatistical31, 3
34Dave #KBF10, 020, 4
34A. Contrarian42, 3, 0, 3, 1, 2, 4, 2, 2, 6, 0, 3, 2
33charlotte reynolds4, 29
31Linda B31
31TJN282, 1, 0
29smileymiley01, 0, 28
29Will3, 6, 0, 6, 3, 4, 7
29Rowan2, 6, 0, 7, 1, 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 1, 2, 2, 0, 1
28Emma19, 9
28Lms235, 6, 6, 2, 3, 6, 0
28Bella1, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 7, 0, 0, 2, 6
26Gtec6, 1, 0, 0, 19
26swedenborg3, 2, 17, 6, 0, 3, 2, 2
24matt5, 0, 3, 3, 0, 1, 5, 0, 5, 2
23Edgar Friendly23
23OKUK3, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 12, 3, 4
21arfurmo17, 4
21Tenchy2, 1, 7, 1, 3, 1, 0, 5, 1
20Ian Rons20
20Edna11, 1, 15, 1, 1
20mjr11, 4, 0, 2, 2, 0, 1
20Victoria1, 04, 1, 8, 3, 3, 0
19ambwozere1, 3, 1, 0, 6, 4, 0, 2, 2, 0
19Nobody202011, 0, 1, 7, 0, 3, 1, 2, 1, 2
19Bella Donna2, 2, 1, 0, 1, 1, 3, 1, 2, 1, 2, 0, 3
18DocRC9, 9
18John Ballard1, 17
18WhyNow18, 0, 0
17Howie593, 14
17RDawg0, 17
17T. Prince9, 8
17anti_corruption_tsar1, 6, 9, 1
17Hoppity68, 0, 0, 3
16James Leary #KBF3, 10, 3
16John B0, 5, 3, 8
14DRW1, 5, 8
14Poppy1, 12, 1
14Rabbit2, 9, 3
14JohnB3, 1, 3, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 3, 2
13Barney McGrew6, 7
13richard riewer1, 0, 1, 1, 6, 1, 3
12Ned of the Hills8, 4, 0
12Binra12, 00, 0
12kbeanie8, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1
11Alex McLeese11
11thedarkhorse9, 2
11Cheezilla02, 9, 0, 0
11PoshPanic92, 0, 0, 0
10RyanM1, 8, 1
10Youth_Unheard9, 1, 0
9Locked down and out9
9Ed Turnbull8, 1
9MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG3, 0, 5, 0, 1
9Jane04, 2, 2, 1, 0
8Andy C8
8anon6, 1, 1
7TheBluePill2, 3, 0, 2
7Carrie0, 1, 0, 1, 4, 1
7The Spingler0, 2, 0, 1, 4, 0
6R G6
6James0072, 4
6drrobin3, 3, 0
6Jonathan Castro0, 2, 4
6Cruella2, 1, 1, 1, 1
6Nick Rose12, 3, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
5Alec in France5
5Old Bill5, 0
5Steve Hayes1, 4
5DownWithBedwetters3, 1, 1
5chris c0, 3, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
4jrsm4, 0
4Saved To Death4, 0
4Brian D40, 0
4guy1530, 0, 1, 3
4Drawde9271, 1, 0, 2, 0
4They dont like it up 'em1, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
3Alan Billingsley3
3DJ Dod3
3Fed up3
3Hoppy Uniatz3
3Little Red Hen3
3Paul Morgan3
3Peter Thompson3
3Raoul Antelme3
3Ross Hendry3
3Chicot0, 3
3Ruth Sharpe30
3tonyspurs1, 2
3Cbird0, 1, 2
3Darryl1, 2, 0
3steve21, 0
3paulito2, 0, 1, 0
3Sarigan00, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0
2Mr Jim McGregor2
2Philip Baynes2
2DressageRider0, 2
2Quernus1, 1
2TyLean0, 2
2karenovirus1, 0, 1
1Gracie Knoll1
1Jonathan Palmer1
1Lorenzo Basso1
1Tom C1
1assoc0, 1
0Daisy May0
0Digital Nomad0
0Ewan Duffy0
0Kath Andrews0
0Keen Cook0
0Solomon Cohen0
0Tom Blackburn0
0JohnB0, 0
0nottingham690, 0
0Phil Beckley0, 0, 0
0Bruno1, 2, -8, 0, 1, 0, 3, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0