Last updated2020-07-17T02:25:49



54216 Sally, replying to Sally, 40, #1 of 1198 🔗

I don’t want to be a downer, but Toby is right about the forthcoming inquiry: it’s ALL going to be about why lockout didn’t happen earlier. Science and critical thinking are pretty well dead.

54222 ▶▶ james, replying to Sally, 3, #2 of 1198 🔗

Definatley, the public seems to be screaming out for someone to blame over the deaths attributed to covid (whatever the actual cause)

55002 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to james, 2, #3 of 1198 🔗

Either way Johnson is toast.

54297 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Sally, 1, #4 of 1198 🔗

Lack of PPE may come into it as well.

54303 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to DressageRider, 21, #5 of 1198 🔗

Yes. The four questions will be: why didn’t we lock down a week earlier; why did it take so long to get the PPE logistics right; why did it take so long to ramp up testing; what happened in care homes and who made the decisions.

I think the government can probably make some pretty solid arguments to absolve themselves of the blame for all 4. Meanwhile, they’ve effectively got away with shouting “look over there! A bunny!” And managed to distract everyone from the actual issue.

54513 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to matt, 7, #6 of 1198 🔗

Yes, I agree. Isn’t the ‘throw a dead cat on the table’ a classic Boris distraction gambit from all awkward questioning? I think I read a long time ago he is a past master at diversionary tactics.

54778 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DressageRider, 4, #7 of 1198 🔗

That’s how he got to be PM. Boris Bluster Johnson.

55448 ▶▶▶▶ Derek Toyne, replying to matt, #8 of 1198 🔗

If these are the type of questions that will be asked then where in for another whitewash.I’ve just viewed an interview from the Hoover institution and Scott Adams where he explains that lockdown will kill twice as many as covid-19. That the biggest mistake was no one thought of doing a cost benefit analysis of the consequences of lockdown. That instead of locking down everyone we should have only locked down those in care homes and immune suppressed. We don’t need to test half million as the PM is now talking about only care home workers, health care and first responders on a regular basis. The government will hide behind this idea of where following the science but anyone could tell you science doesn’t work that way. For example face masks only have a limited affect depending on people using them properly which is not a science problem.

54484 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DressageRider, 6, #9 of 1198 🔗

The absolute hoot of sturgeon decreeing the medical PPE past its sell by date had been tested as safe and therefore would be deployed to the poor bugger nurses in intensive care units won’t be inquired into. I still roll around the floor laughing at that little number. NHS over buying millions of PPE items (6 monthly cycles) and you want me to pop out my door with a clap and a thank you. If only I could live on laughter alone.

54345 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sally, 12, #10 of 1198 🔗

My prediction:

It’ll be a whitewash and conclude more stricter lockdowns should have been done earlier.

NO mention of if a lockdown was needed at all.

Watch to see how much on an establishment insider is put in charge, that will tell you a lot on the stance it will take.

54369 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #11 of 1198 🔗

Won’t the unemployment figures help? And some business leaders are fighting back.

54372 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to wendy, 4, #12 of 1198 🔗

YES, sadly these business leaders are awfully quiet. It is time that the economy becomes first priority.

55005 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Victoria, 5, #13 of 1198 🔗

Business leaders are not what they were…mostly lost to wokery.

55031 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to wendy, 4, #14 of 1198 🔗

They need to stop funding the Tories and let Bill Gates take up the strain.

55237 ▶▶▶▶▶ Michel, replying to Rowan, 1, #15 of 1198 🔗

I just erased windows 10 and replaced it with linux. It’s not much but it’s my little revenge on Gates

54448 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sally, 2, #16 of 1198 🔗

An enormous piece of question begging that presupposes that a lockdown has any benefits at all. It is invalid for that reason alone.

55037 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cicatriz, 6, #17 of 1198 🔗

Locking down the healthy and non-vulnerable is not just madness but treasonable.

54690 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Sally, 3, #18 of 1198 🔗

Yes, the correctness of the decision to lock down is regarded as axiomatic. The inquiry will be concerned only with the minor technicalities of its implementation.

54713 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Sally, 7, #19 of 1198 🔗

Peston’s take on it:

The cost of Covid-19 in the UK, in 45,000 lives lost and considerably more if ‘excess’ deaths are included, in long term illness for tens of thousands, and in damage to our prosperity, is changing everything.
But did the shock have to be so great? Could the government have done more to protect us?
Among the questions that will be examined by Boris Johnson’s promised public inquiry is why vulnerable residents in care homes were put at serious risk, why health care workers struggled for months to obtain vital protective equipment, whether travellers from the viral hotspots of Italy, Spain and France should have been quarantined, whether the full lockdown could and should have been implemented a week or more earlier, and why the UK did not increase virus testing capacity much earlier.


Pretty predictable.

What is it about us, here, that allows us to see beyond this? I am at a loss to explain it. No doubt to Peston, we are tinfoil hat people; conspiracy theorists; cranks; probably anti-vaxxers, and ‘far right’. But I don’t think we are those things. No more than Sunetra Gupta who, seemingly, sees things the way we do.

54727 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #20 of 1198 🔗

I was also disappointed by this article not even bothering to look beyond the obvious questions. Especially from the Spectator, which has been one of the better mainstream media sources in terms of sceptical attitudes to “the science”.

54745 ▶▶▶ DownWithBedwetters, replying to Barney McGrew, #21 of 1198 🔗

How does Peston know what the inquiry’s questions will be?

54798 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to DownWithBedwetters, 10, #22 of 1198 🔗

Because the agenda is being fixed (behind the scenes, in the press, social media) before the inquiry is even started. It’s quite clever: people are being encouraged to think that the government is squirming when asked about PPE, test strategies, care homes and the timing of the lockdown. “No! Don’t ask us about PPE. That’s a really tough one.” When of course, the biggest question of all (should there have been a lockdown) will never be asked.

55131 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #23 of 1198 🔗

Spot on

55009 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #24 of 1198 🔗

Anyone to the right of Jeremy Corbyn is far right now.

55053 ▶▶▶ Jacky Bell, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #25 of 1198 🔗

I’ve repeatedly asked myself that question and have come to the conclusion that there are people who can repeat everything they have ever learnt and then there are people who can think!! As Toby found in his research, no one on Sage looked into the consequences of lockdown because we have never locked down before so it required original thought!

55098 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #26 of 1198 🔗

Sometimes I think our leading journos are just very stupid. Can’t they appreciate that preventing the elderly and confused from seeing close relatives for months on or leaving them to rot in hospital is horribly cruel- a form of elder abuse. It will have led to the early deaths of many elderly people as they became demoralised hy the isolation. That will have included many with Covid 19.

54818 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sally, 6, #27 of 1198 🔗

Do not let them get away with it. Bombard them relentlessly during the inquiries with everything that contradicts their claims. It will take a coordinated network of people but it could be done. They do it, so can we. Yes, we can.

55082 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sally, 3, #28 of 1198 🔗

Of course – taken as read. LBG (Labour-BBC-Guardian) will be looking for a figure eg “40000 unnecessary deaths” they can hang around the neck of Johnson and the Heartless Tories until the next election. Maybe Lockdown Sceptics should seek participant status in any inquiry. Rejection of such status will prove it’s a fix.

55264 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Sally, #29 of 1198 🔗

The critical question should be Why didn’t we copy what Singapore did in its hospitals where they got medical transmission down to statistical zero?

54218 Mark B, replying to Mark B, -41, #30 of 1198 🔗

Wow, Toby is defending his relationship with Ghislaine Maxwell by implying that she might be innocent.

54224 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Mark B, 25, #31 of 1198 🔗

She is innocent……until proven guilty……and not before.

54239 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Mark B, 3, #32 of 1198 🔗

Come on Mark B. Do you really mean that? That’s about the worst comment I’ve ever read on this site.

I’ve downvoted you, so only fair to leave an explanation why.

If you want to retract or elaborate then that’s fine – we all make mistakes.

But that’s really not fair is it?

54253 ▶▶▶ Mark B, replying to TJN, -1, #33 of 1198 🔗

He’s obviously being harassed by the tabloids. It’s his website but I don’t know why he has to raise this issue here which is nothing to with it. But why not just leave it at we just bumped into each other at social gatherings.
It’s quite obvious she was heavily involved and she has evidence that she will use to bargain for a reduced sentence. To even imply that she might be innocent is absurd and to use that in any part of of his guilt by association argument is ridiculous.

54266 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mark B, 22, #34 of 1198 🔗

Well thanks for the explanation, which helps. Sorry if my reply to you was a bit strong.

She’s going to be tried, and unless everyone’s assumed innocent till proven guilty then eventually we will all suffer.

For me, one of the most serious aspects of the Epstein case is his previous conviction in which the authorities effectively let him get away with what he was clearly up to – leaving him free to menace society again.

Surely Toby has the right to defend himself however he thinks fit. He’s clearly a very brave man – not many people would be able to sustain the (unfair) flak he has faced, and continue fighting for what they think is right.

55341 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to TJN, #35 of 1198 🔗

The arrest in New Hampshire does not pass the smell test here in the USA. Of course the FBI knew where GM was the whole time. So, technically, innocent until proven guilty. But wait, on what charges? Some technicality such as transporting a minor over state lines? Something hammered out in advance? Why no mug shots? Why does every aspect of htis thing smell, including the role of law enforcement? That is why, beyond the technical “innocent until proven guilty” there is plenty of shall we call it solid speculation that the woman is a piece of ——- (you fill in the blank) and she has and still is involved in something big and is being protected by someone(s). .

55343 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Jane, #36 of 1198 🔗

PS. Yes, bad move of Toby to bring it up here, unless he is under some kind of pressure that required it. Even so, somewhat hamfisted.

55360 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Jane, #37 of 1198 🔗

Hello Jane,

Thanks for your replies. Yes, it may well be that she’s being protected by someone – I don’t know. Akin to this, if Epstein had been dealt with properly earlier in his ‘career’ then much misery and suffering would have been avoided. You’ll probably have better ideas than me as to why he wasn’t dealt with. Clearly, he was guilty, had been found guilty, but was treated almost as if he was innocent.

As to Toby bringing it up here, well I think we have to allow him some leeway. As I’ve posted below, if you look at his Salem 2.0 link at he end of today’s post you’ll glean something of what he’s suffered at the hands of the mob, and I for one can’t blame him for wanting to head it off this time.

54280 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mark B, 2, #38 of 1198 🔗

I think that she’s guilty, based on what I’ve read about her, but that doesn’t mean that she is guilty. Until judged in a court of law, she’s innocent (though I’ve got a feeling she will be found dead in her cell, just like Jeff, before this happens). However, this is completely off-topic and I’m not sure why Toby mentioned it on the Sceptics site. Lockdown discussions only here, please!

54309 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark B, 9, #39 of 1198 🔗

this is the US legal system we are talking about . They do have a habit of charging people and then refusing bail (even when there is no danger to the public) and so leaving the accused in prison for months and months. Then the plea bargaining starts, and the accused, who may be innocent, is pressured to accept a lesser charge on the promise of a reduced punishment to be sorted out quickly rather than to rot in prison for a year. This is known as “the innocent prisoner’s dilemma” This has happened a few times with UK citizens.

54347 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark B, 2, #40 of 1198 🔗

He’s a sceptic so TPTB will fins any reason to discredit him.

Watch them start digging back a long long way.

54492 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #41 of 1198 🔗

AG and Mr Dee,

If you look at the Salem 2.0 link he gives at the end of today’s post it’s clear that he’s been to hell and back at the hands of that lot.

It explains to me why he feels he has to take any opportunity to defend himself against ‘that lot’, especially when they will be out to fix him merely for running a website such as this.

55045 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to TJN, #42 of 1198 🔗

This website is one of the few brighter spots on a very bleak landscape.

55043 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Mark B, #43 of 1198 🔗

She may be innocent, but are you?

55087 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark B, #44 of 1198 🔗

I’m sure we’ve all had “friends you can’t defend”.

54219 MariaSpinola, replying to MariaSpinola, 15, #45 of 1198 🔗

PLEASE HELP US — VOTE NO (NÃO in https://www.facebook.com/Publico/posts/10158700327821983 )

In Portugal, we already wear a mask in shops, public services, schools, malls, restaurants…
.. but now, they want us to WEAR MASKS EVERYWHERE (even streets, beaches, and so on)&nbsp comment image

So please, GO TO https://www.facebook.com/Publico/posts/10158700327821983 and VOTE “NÃO”

Thanks a lot,
Maria Spínola
https://www.facebook.com/groups/sairdecasa — we are “brothers”&nbsp comment image

54348 ▶▶ Michel, replying to MariaSpinola, 2, #46 of 1198 🔗

Is there any non-facebook site where I can vote? We have a holliday home in Portugal but to be honest the governments measures scare me off to go there at the moment! So I’d be happy to vote, but have no facebook accoint.

54433 ▶▶ claire, replying to MariaSpinola, 1, #47 of 1198 🔗

Will vote. Wondering if you could help with a query I have. I was pondering whether the ‘reasons’ being given for why masks should be worn differs dependent on country. The UK stance seems to be ‘it wont protect me but it will protect someone else’ is that the same in Portugal? Thanks

55321 ▶▶▶ MariaSpinola, replying to claire, #48 of 1198 🔗

That’s a one million dollar question!

Another one (million dollar question) is: does masks protect at all?

In fact, at our (portuguese) NHS (at https://covid19estamoson.gov.pt/plano-desconfinamento-medidas-gerais/desconfinamento-normas-por-setor/ ) we can find this reference:
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-use-face-masks-community.pdf where we can read the following:

“… various non-medical face masks were shown to have very low filter efficiency (2–38%) [21]. In one study, cotton surgical masks were associated with a higher risk of penetration of microorganisms and ILI compared to no masks.”

“There are no established standards for non-medical face masks used as a means of source control or personal protection”
Nota: ILI = influenza-like illness

Note: The pool is closed, and the results are… 40% NO; 60% YES (wear masks everywhere, even at outdoor 🙁

No.. no…. no… no…. we can’t believe !!!

54566 ▶▶ microdave, replying to MariaSpinola, 5, #49 of 1198 🔗

There’s a readers letter in today’s Daily Mail from a British ex-pat in Portugal, asking where the tourists are. He explains how everywhere is virtually deserted, and hotel and bar staff are falling over themselves to help. He sent in a picture of himself enjoying a sun-lounger on an empty beach, but no sign of a face nappy. I suspect his retirement outlook may soon change..

55322 ▶▶▶ MariaSpinola, replying to microdave, #50 of 1198 🔗

It’s true! It’s sad, but it’s true 🙁

54910 ▶▶ Michel, replying to MariaSpinola, 1, #51 of 1198 🔗

Unfortunately there seems to be a majority voting “yes”… What is this world coming to? Sigh….

55323 ▶▶▶ MariaSpinola, replying to Michel, #52 of 1198 🔗

60% YES
40% NO

Really sad 🙁

56168 ▶▶▶ MariaSpinola, replying to Michel, #53 of 1198 🔗

Tha’s true..60% YES; 40% NO 🙁

However, if you notice at https://www.facebook.com/Publico/posts/10158700327821983there are 1 thousand and nine hundred comments, and all comments are from the people that voted NO!!!

That’s good and at the same time a bad thing!

It means that the YES votes are fake!

NOTE: https://www.facebook.com/Publico it’s one of the major newspapers (media channel) that received 15 million euros from the government during the lockdown — so most media aren’t independent 🙁

55046 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to MariaSpinola, 1, #54 of 1198 🔗

In restaurants?

55324 ▶▶▶ MariaSpinola, replying to Rowan, #55 of 1198 🔗

Yes, even in restaurants.

We have to enter and exit with th mask on.
We can only take the mask of when we are eating 🙁

Stupid, nonsense rules hera at Portugal, about masks and a lot of other Covid-19 measures!

It’s the same in UK?

55328 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to MariaSpinola, #56 of 1198 🔗

Do you have to keep your mask on while you order from the menu?

56167 ▶▶▶▶▶ MariaSpinola, replying to richard riewer, #57 of 1198 🔗

No, but we are advised to take off the mask, only when eating/drinking.

However, as soon as we seat in a table, we can take the mask off — and that’s what I do.

Note: Restaurants are working 50% capacity because tables must be 2 meters apart. So it’s social distancing also!

However, if we get up, we must put the mask on — to enter/exit; go to toilet… it’s a funny virus, it’s only there when we aren’t seated! Nonsense!

And we can’t eat/drink anything outside the table, also! And no alcohol after 8:00 PM unless you are having dinner.

And all restaurant employees must wear masks all time.

54220 annie, replying to annie, 73, #58 of 1198 🔗

It may be far in the future (though I suspect not), but the Great Covid Insanity, or the Year the World Went Mad, is going to generate an academic industry of colossal proportions. It will be the new Holocaust. There will be Insanity subdepartments in history faculties, professorships galore, international Insanity conferences, legions of journals devoted entirely to the Insanity, books, films, TV series, the whole boiling.

When the Nazis realised time was up, they did their best to get rid of the evidence. Attempts were made to literally grass over extermination camps such as Treblinka, potential witnesses were murdered (of course), inmates were sent away on death marches, and it was only the rapid advances of Allied armies that prevented a successful cover-up. Himmler himself described the mass extermination as ‘a glorious chapter in our history … which never will be written ‘. But the Nazis were left with a smoking gun, or rather, chimney.

Our enemies are the new Nazis. We are living through the new holocaust. Not a straight mass killing of human bodies, but a mass killing of the human spirit. We are the Resistance. We are the survivors. We, particularly thanks to Toby, are the evidence, the raw material of true history. We must be the victors. History must be written by us,


A Jew, hiding in a cellar from the Nazis, wrote the following on the wall:

I believe in the sun
even when it is not shining
And I believe in love,
even when there’s no one there.
And I believe in God,
even when he is silent.

54237 ▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to annie, 8, #59 of 1198 🔗

Wonderful thought to start the day with! Thanks, Annie. 🙂

54246 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 5, #60 of 1198 🔗

Great post and a ray of sunshine during these dark times. Thanks Annie!!!

54291 ▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, 18, #61 of 1198 🔗

Thanks Annie- I’ve been feeling really down the past few days, probably the worst throughout this whole charade. I just don’t want to live in this world anymore, with seemingly no end in sight to the covi-steria and a second lockdown rumoured, my job satisfaction non-existent and my mum’s struggle getting ‘our NHS heroes’ to do their jobs. But we call know what eventually happened to the Nazis.

54329 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to DRW, 12, #62 of 1198 🔗

Hold on to hope DRW, l have been pretty low myself, but Toby and the lovely people here have helped so much. Thank you to Toby and everyone else for being so brave

54350 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to DRW, 12, #63 of 1198 🔗

It’s very hard at the moment especially when you get little glimpses of normality which get snatched away again.

We will overcome this DRW, everyone here is of a similar mindset.

54404 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to ambwozere, 9, #64 of 1198 🔗

It’s very hard at the moment especially when you get little glimpses of normality which get snatched away again

Exactly – and I find that far worse than the early stages of lockdown, when there was (or so it seemed at the time) some hope of a return to normality.

54627 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to microdave, 8, #65 of 1198 🔗

It’s very hard at the moment especially when you get little glimpses of normality which get snatched away again

Which is exactly why they do it. We’re not going to let them manipulate us so easily though, are we ? 🙂

54659 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, 5, #66 of 1198 🔗


55025 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to microdave, #67 of 1198 🔗

We were very naive back then I think.

55023 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to ambwozere, 4, #68 of 1198 🔗

I know what you mean I had a relatively normal drink in a nice old hotel/pub in shropshire. On the way out 2 girls masked up aged about 15 asked me where my mask was….I asked where their brains were and they called me selfish and horrid. Oh well it was nice while it lasted!

55326 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to They dont like it up 'em, #69 of 1198 🔗

I’m thinking of trying the effect of pulling my tongue, should similar happen to me.

What do people think ?

54446 ▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to DRW, 18, #70 of 1198 🔗

I totally understand how you feel. My energy has been up and down. This is just a constant treadmill now of absurd but ultimately dangerous diktats by this government Joy has been sucked out of everything. I’ve been trying to fight back in as many ways as I can and I’ve fallen out with friends and family, who are still utterly terrified of this virus. I refuse to comply and obey, and believe the same narrative as them – not that I even force my views on them! So, now they’re concerned for my “mental health” Jeez! All you can do is keep moving forward, live your own life and believe in what your heart tells you. Remember, only YOU have the right to govern your own body!

55330 ▶▶▶ Richard Dale, replying to DRW, #71 of 1198 🔗

We all feel it DRW, try not to get too down. We’ll win in the end.

54545 ▶▶ Scotty87, replying to annie, 5, #72 of 1198 🔗

After reading that post Annie, I would jump over the trenches with you any day of the week!

54757 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Scotty87, 3, #73 of 1198 🔗

Get your gun, I’ve got mine!

54786 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 1, #74 of 1198 🔗

I call them Uber Nazis.

55061 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, #75 of 1198 🔗

The new holocaust will begin in earnest, when the great depopulator’s liability free experimental “vaccines” are made available to the ever so grateful masses. Bill has been waiting and planning for all this to happen for many years and this wonderful genocidal opportunity will not be wasted.

54221 David Mc, replying to David Mc, 16, #76 of 1198 🔗
54856 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to David Mc, 1, #77 of 1198 🔗

Good article!

55357 ▶▶▶ David Mc, replying to Cheezilla, #78 of 1198 🔗


55335 ▶▶ ColoradoGirl, replying to David Mc, #79 of 1198 🔗

Excellent article! Thank you for providing the way out: Tell the truth.

54223 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 17, #80 of 1198 🔗

Best wishes to Toby and family for a great and richly deserved holiday.

Finally the Democratic Party supporting sky news has a main story on care homes deaths. It quotes NHS documents showing that thousands of hospital patients were summarily discharged back to care homes without being tested; not that tests would have made much difference since we know from other NHS documents that the test kits were not up to standard in any case. So thousands dead before their time, with the buck stopping with the health secretary and prime minister. Heads must roll.

But compare and contrast sky news belated effort (this site has been saying that very same thing for three months now!) with ‘the spectator’

‘The researchers concluded that ‘consistent and correct use of face coverings can be an ‘important tool for minimising spread of Sars-CoV-2’.

In fact the study quoted by the spectator covered two hair stylists potentially spreading covid 19. No customers were infected, apparently because the stylists wore face masks (the study lists 4 limitations to this theory). Only one stylist actually managed to spread covid 19 to members of their close family when not wearing a face mask. The other did not. So this study is just as flimsy as any other for the efficacy of Blue Peter face masks


But what it does, clearly, demonstrate is the demise of reputable journalism, with a few notable exceptions like the legendary national treasure that is Mr Young.

And it is those journalists under the age of 40 spreading this alarmist nonsense that are the most egregious, since, as we all now know, they and their acquaintances of that age group have suffered overall mortality throughout every month of this entire silly nonsense of the common cold coronavirus of below the five year average for the same period.

54228 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tim Bidie, 18, #81 of 1198 🔗

Most journalists and media bosses have been disgraceful – only just behind politicians in the rogues gallery.

54296 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 7, #82 of 1198 🔗

Yes, the only profession to gain has been estate agents – who, by comparison, now look like very virtuous model citizens!

54628 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Julian, 1, #83 of 1198 🔗

In the paraphrased words of Anna Brees, ex BBCjournalists…

Mainstream journalists are just actors reading from a script

54629 ▶▶▶▶ Nel, replying to Nel, 1, #84 of 1198 🔗

Sorry not sure my comment is clear that Anna is an ex BBC journalist

54792 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Nel, 1, #85 of 1198 🔗

Copywriters and Pamphleteers.

54565 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Tim Bidie, 9, #86 of 1198 🔗

Tim, this from Rod Liddle in this weeks Specator

“The counter-argument — the no-mask argument — would have to insist that almost the entire world got it completely wrong, over-reacted, wrecked economies for no good reason. Every government, every scientific organisation of note, all of them got it wrong: only we were right. That is a stretch too far for me, I’m afraid. It seems a position similar to those who argue that 9/11 didn’t happen, or was an inside job, or that the moon landings were fake. When you have flawed politicians and flawed science, you go with the wisdom of crowds, surely”

“wisdom of crowds”!!! No, you at least try and force the flawed politicians and scientists to tell the truth surely? And to compare those that don’t want to wear masks (based on ACTUAL science) to 9/11 conspiracy theorists is just lazy, cheap and spiteful.

54596 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to T. Prince, 3, #87 of 1198 🔗

Rod Liddle must be a really special person. The wisdom of crowds ?!? Has he just invented this ? He should take a look at the highest rating tv programmes, the nation’s favourite takeaway food places, and the music favoured by most people under 60.

Masks are akin to 9-11 and the ‘moon landings’, in that the bad guys will not debate the evidence at all. To me, that gives a pretty clear hint which side is telling the truth.

(At least he’s keeping his shops open to non-mask wearers.). 🙂

54604 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to T. Prince, 1, #88 of 1198 🔗

Pretty good summary by Rod until “That is a stretch too far…” but then he went and spoiled it.

54641 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to T. Prince, 5, #89 of 1198 🔗

I remember being told that the combined IQ of a crowd/mob is the square root of the IQ of it’s stupidest member so wouldn’t trust crowds to make an intelligent decision.

54827 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to T. Prince, 2, #90 of 1198 🔗

Almost the entire world did get it completely wrong, over-reacted, wrecked economies for no good reason (and worse than that – wrecked LIVES for no good reason).
And everyone knows about the MADNESS of crowds; it’s just a massive problem that they don’t return to sanity as a crowd, but only slowly as individuals.

55030 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to T. Prince, #91 of 1198 🔗

Always was controlled opposition. You can make a living out of appearing radical but when the going got tough the tough did not get going.

54225 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 35, #92 of 1198 🔗

My thought of the day. If you told the general public that (nearly) 1 in 4000 people was a violent psychopath who would seek to do them harm, would we have millions of people up and down the land petrified of leaving their homes, going back to work or taking their kids to school?

I somehow doubt it. That’s only 0.006% of the population after all.

So why do we have millions of the same people acting this way in response to a virus that spares over 99% of its victims, is now nigh impossible to catch in society and will probably be out of the country’s system by the autumn? Where’s the sense of proportion here?

Is this vacuum of rationality down to the ceaseless propaganda campaign? A miserable lack of critical thinkers out there? Downright stupidity? Or something far more sinister?

54227 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Scotty87, 23, #93 of 1198 🔗

Is this vacuum of rationality down to the ceaseless propaganda campaign? A miserable lack of critical thinkers out there? Downright stupidity? Or something far more sinister?”

All of the above, really. 24 hour news, irresponsible “journalism”, interest groups seizing the opportunity for advancing their own ends, the Internet and social media, global nature of information. And the NEWNESS of the virus. Existing threats are lived with; there seemed to be no capacity to tolerate a new one, despite it turning out to be not very dangerous relative to many others, and only of significant danger (at a societal level) to the very old or ill. Safetyism.

54233 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 13, #94 of 1198 🔗

In the RSM video linked to in today’s post, Sumption makes the point that part of the problem is that the west has mostly been spared the other infectious diseases that have caused death and misery elsewhere (TB, Ebola, SARS 1, MERS) and so we’ve lost our sense of proportion when it comes to something new.

54415 ▶▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Julian, 1, #95 of 1198 🔗

I think your analysis is excellent, Julian. Can’t disagree with a word of it.

54324 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Scotty87, 12, #96 of 1198 🔗

Once many years ago a man put a bomb in his shoe and tried to detonate it on a plane. One incidence ever in the history of time.

Because of this one incident everyone has their shoes checked at airports, presumably forever. Regardless of the merits of doing this, it’s not hard to see how people are willing to accept measures to reduce to zero the risk of something “bad” happening.

54631 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #97 of 1198 🔗

The airport security bollocks of the last 19 years was primarily to accustom us to queuing and being treated badly.

55129 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, #98 of 1198 🔗

I would cheerfully take the risk of being the unlucky one on a plane with a bomb on it in exchange for a 50% less irritating experience at security.

By the way – recommend schiphol. They have brand new luggage scanners that mean you don’t have to take anything out of your bag at all.

55327 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, #99 of 1198 🔗

Kyiv Borispol has great smoking rooms.

54654 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Scotty87, 6, #100 of 1198 🔗

Scotty, it is because I just can’t get my head around the utter stupidity of those that are falling for this guff, that I’m tending towards the ‘something far more sinister’ line, and I don’t like to think that because that in itself can be irrational

54835 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to T. Prince, 2, #101 of 1198 🔗

I look at the fact that not every country has reacted the same way (varying levels of madness if you like, ranging from batshit crazy to standard sane pandemic procedure) if I start thinking like that. I think gross incompetence, which the political classes almost everywhere have in spades, coupled with crass opportunism from certain immoral billionaires who shall remain nameless, explains everything.

54768 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Scotty87, 2, #102 of 1198 🔗

I agree, but the prevalence of psychopaths is more like 1 in 100, although most restrict their violence to their families and animals. People usually find them charming. Just makes it all the more poignant an analogy really!


54807 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to TyLean, #103 of 1198 🔗

It just occurred to me several minutes ago that your PM might enjoy a bit of S&M on occasion and that might explain why he has been behaving like a sadist for the past few months.

54886 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Scotty87, 3, #104 of 1198 🔗


So what about all the people who have died and will continue to die from undiagnosed/untreated cancer heart disease and all the rest?

Ooh look, a moth!

55346 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Scotty87, #105 of 1198 🔗

Something more sinister. The Great Reset. Don’t tell me you have not heard the news!

Check out “Context” and “Summary.” These unelected “leaders’ have big plans for us. The virus had sped up the time frame.

54226 peter, replying to peter, -34, #106 of 1198 🔗

It didn’t take long for this site to start shilling for face masks, disgraceful.
Never trust a Tory.

54230 ▶▶ matt, replying to peter, 13, #107 of 1198 🔗

Peter, if you read the comments on this blog over the last few days, you will see plenty of people talking about 1) the options for avoiding wearing masks completely from next Friday and 2) ways to subvert them by adding designs and slogans to the front to make it clear that they’re ridiculous.

Given that, I’m not sure how Toby is being a shill by posting an option for a company that will add your own design to a mask for you? I can’t see he stands to make any financial gain from it, but even if he did, since this is his blog, advertising would seem a perfectly fair way to use it occasionally. And he’s posted his lockdown sceptics bulldog design as a suggestion, but he’s not asking for anything in exchange for its use.

Unless your point is “I don’t like Toby young and I’m looking for anything at all to make the case he’s a terrible human being” I can’t see that you have a point at all.

54236 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to matt, -38, #108 of 1198 🔗

No wonder Toby is disappearing on ‘holiday’. I wonder if Gates is paying.

54238 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to peter, 13, #109 of 1198 🔗

Oh right, ok. Yes, he probably is. Pays for my holidays too.

You fool.

54336 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to peter, 20, #110 of 1198 🔗

I wish I was paying for Toby’s holiday, he deserves it and he has been trying to help so many people. This site is kind, hopeful and friendly a place where people have shared their many feelings, not a place for abuse. Toby seems very able to defend himself but I have been grateful to him.

54496 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to peter, 4, #111 of 1198 🔗

I assume 77th Brigade is your paymaster?

54633 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ewan Duffy, 2, #112 of 1198 🔗

Maybe they are like Beetlejuice in that comedy horror film, but these ones have to go away once ’77th Brigade’ is mentioned ? 🙂

54861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #113 of 1198 🔗

I’ve noticed that.

54240 ▶▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to matt, 7, #114 of 1198 🔗

From Peter’s last response, it’s fairly obvious he just doesn’t like the guy. Takes all sorts, I guess.

54229 Julian, replying to Julian, 26, #115 of 1198 🔗

It’s shocking, but surprising, that there was no cost benefit analysis. I never thought there had been.

It’s interesting to know that one of the cabinet did speak up, though to his shame he didn’t then go public and resign.

What’s equally sad and shocking is that no-one other than a few have been asking to see the cost benefit analysis. It’s accepted that it wasn’t necessary.

54320 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Julian, 7, #116 of 1198 🔗

Handjob was asked this question at one of the briefings in April. He confirmed that no study had been undertaken. Not single follow up question asked.

54327 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, 10, #117 of 1198 🔗

If it saves just one life it’s worth it…apparently. No cost/benefit analysis required.

Also if you can channel money to your cronies, by giving them untendered contracts, making everyone in your social bubble richer then it’s definitely worth it.

54403 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Julian, 6, #118 of 1198 🔗

What is shocking is that it’s shocking to anyone.

Lockdowns across the world were decided in matters of days, with obviously no time to consider anything properly.

In general, people’s expectations of what government and central authorities can accomplish with competence is completely out of proportion with reality.

54840 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to stewart, #119 of 1198 🔗

What’s the saying again? There’s nothing so bad that the government can’t make it worse? Something like that, though possibly in ruder language originally.

54231 Catherine, 6, #120 of 1198 🔗

Really glad to see my MP was the only one to ask a sensible question pre lockdown! I saw him in town a couple of weeks ago and (having already written to him about school closures) asked him about schools… his reply was that the ‘government goofed’ on education!!! Aargh!

54232 Julian, replying to Julian, 23, #121 of 1198 🔗

Good to see another MP (Graham Brady) expressing reservations about masks – one to add to the list (Swayne, Chope, Leigh). Wish they would get together and start to form a movement. I emailed the latter three. Maybe other LS readers could do the same. Brady is a bit more guarded – would have preferred him to say they were not needed at all – but it’s a start.

54241 ▶▶ TJS123, replying to Julian, 5, #122 of 1198 🔗

I emailed my MP, and, like many others, I suspect, have had a standard, to paraphrase it, reply: “I’m very busy with very important matters due to Covid 19, don’t bother me now, it’ll take ages for me to reply”.
I’m also discouraged from phoning as he might be “waiting for calls from foreign embassies”.
As there’s barely any covid 19 about now, and as I’m fairly sure most stranded tourists have now reached home, I wonder what he’s doing with his time?

54693 ▶▶▶ djc, replying to TJS123, 2, #123 of 1198 🔗

Was that Somerton and Frome, or do they all copy and paste the same script?

Due to the pandemic, I am currently receiving an extraordinary number of emails from constituents. My office is helping me prioritise those in most urgent need or risk - e.g. with family members stranded abroad, or those vulnerable and alone. Please can I ask you to bear with me if replies take a little longer than usual.

In which case maybe they should follow their own rules

If you have sent a standard generated email as part of an organised e-campaign or through a website [...] However, due to the growing volume of this type of identical correspondence, I am no longer able to provide a response.

And yes my email was not from a script.

55188 ▶▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to djc, #124 of 1198 🔗

Yes it was…! Not impressed with the response. Like all MP’s he has researchers and office staff who respond initially to the majority of queries, and you’d think they could come up with a view on this “FAQ” to let us know his position. Maybe he’s waiting for his moment to emulate Desmond Swayne.

54243 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, 3, #125 of 1198 🔗

I have e-mailed the latter three also.

I wish my MP would make such a principled stance but doubt she will.

54245 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 5, #126 of 1198 🔗

Just got a “thanks” from Sir Desmond! Wish he was my MP.

54234 Will, replying to Will, 14, #127 of 1198 🔗

The lockdown earlier argument is nonsensical given the studies that show the peak of infections was on the 18th March at the latest. Locking down on the 16th or the 18th would have made no difference, especially if the decision had still been made to empty the hospitals, into the care homes, with infected patients.

54235 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Will, 18, #128 of 1198 🔗

We read that Hancock was saying in the HoC yesterday that the lockdown did effectively begin a week earlier than the actual formal announcement.

Deacon in the Telegraph ridicules him for this. I think he’s being smarter than Deacon realises – that he’s seeking cover for the peak of infections occurring around 18 March.

Can there ever have been such a viscerally dishonest UK government as this one? Even Blair would have balked at what this lot are doing.

54304 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to TJN, 3, #129 of 1198 🔗

My only reservation about all that is over Blair – he would probably have been a bit more organised and would have hidden his mistakes a bit better, but he certainly would have had no qualms over any degree of genocide resultant!

54313 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to IanE, 3, #130 of 1198 🔗

Well I reckon in terms of harm done divided by number of days in office Johnson is winning by a country mile, and is still pulling ahead fast!

I can’t stand Blair, but I think he would have handled this more competently than this lot – if only because the opposition party, and some of the newspapers, would have attempted to hold him to account. As you say though, he would have been better organised and covered his tracks more efficiently.

54315 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to IanE, 7, #131 of 1198 🔗

With Blair in for something like this he’d had been 10x more prepared and organised compare to bojo… He would without doubt tho have opted for the h&s virtue signalling approach tho and we’d all probably have suffered going into a harder lockdown initially with even more shrill bleating about saving 1 life etc.

With a labour government in power right now I think we’d be miles better off tho, primarily because the tories would be in opposition and they’d actually be opposing, so I’m pretty sure they’d be anti lockdown Pro business pro liberties _if_ it was in opposition to whatever à Labour government was doing, and consequently the tory press (8 of 10 best selling papers) would also have been singing from that same sheet. Labour in opposition are truly awful, trying to remember the last time in the last 10yrs of being opposition that they’ve meaningfully opposed anything as a coherent unit and to any effect.

54323 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mark II, 5, #132 of 1198 🔗

I think that’s the key – there would have been an opposition.

54326 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark II, 9, #133 of 1198 🔗

That’s an excellent point, Mark II. Never thought of it like that. I will probably never vote again, but maybe you should vote against the party who will give a better opposition.

54440 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Julian, 3, #134 of 1198 🔗

God it’s true isnt it, what a farcical system we have where that’s an actual consideration.

54330 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Will, 2, #135 of 1198 🔗

The only reason they use this argument is because some countries have had low death counts. That’s it.

If no country locked down and the death toll was equivalent to a severe flu season then it wouldn’t even be in question when or if lockdowns were required.

54370 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Will, 5, #136 of 1198 🔗

Well it might have meant more cases now. Look at Romania (for example, I’m sure there are others) on Worldometers. They locked down early and so now cases are going back up again. It didn’t take a genius to see that this would happen…

But in the UK no second wave because we locked down nice and late, after the peak of infections.

Romania will hopefully see some accidental benefit from this delay however as treatments have now got a lot better with many fewer people being basically killed by premature ventilation.

54398 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to guy153, #137 of 1198 🔗

And the devastation to health and the economy of having to lock down a multitude of times and not really having any choice over the matter as everyone is now pathologically terrified of this disease; apart from the scientists who are advocating people are deliberately infected with it to try and develop a vaccine….

54812 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Will, 2, #138 of 1198 🔗

I think it’s OK to do “challenge trials” (deliberately infect people) if you’ve explained the risks to them and it’s their decision.

They are taking a small risk but may be saving lives. Covid is not yet endemic everywhere and does kill people in high risk groups.

Plenty of people would accept those odds and I have no problem with that. This is consistent with the principle that people should be able to make their own decisions about what risks they want to take in their lives.

54495 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Will, 1, #139 of 1198 🔗

It would have enabled them to claim success though, I think ‘they’ are hoping the two issues can be confused enough to cover up the catastrophic mismanagement.

54242 Danny, replying to Danny, 21, #140 of 1198 🔗

Maybe we could have separate shopping days, similar to autism friendly cinema screenings or women’s only days at swimming pools.
Being slightly facetious yes, but it could actually work. Monday to Wednesday could be entry to all shops and transport with masks. Thursday onwards you are free to unmask. Those fearful for their lives could shop and travel safely, knowing for example that a book browsed by a non mask wearer wouldn’t have been handled in days.

54259 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Danny, 4, #141 of 1198 🔗

Only problem is, that’s dividing society. Divide and conquer. And it would become permanent.

54325 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to thedarkhorse, 11, #142 of 1198 🔗

I would like to be divided from a lot of my fellow citizens, in a separate country. As and when the zealots see sense, they’d be allowed in as long as they displayed sincere contrition and promised not to kill us with safety.

54418 ▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Julian, 3, #143 of 1198 🔗

I would like to be divided from a lot of my fellow citizens, in a separate country

Only a LOT? I would put it at 90% or more. And I wouldn’t let ANY of the zealots in, however contrite they were…

54941 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to thedarkhorse, #144 of 1198 🔗

Not if the mask wearers defected!

54772 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Danny, 1, #145 of 1198 🔗

I actually think that’s a very good idea in terms of an autism-friendly thing for shops. My son has autism, and he’s not handling the face masks on everyone well at all.

54247 Alison, 2, #146 of 1198 🔗

Not surprised by the comment above that a Lidl in Wales aren’t going to enforce mask-wearing as it’s not going to be mandatory in Wales in shops. I just found out that they’re about to make them mandatory on public transport however. This is despite the statements on the government website (which are still there) that –

“CMO advice continues to be that the evidence of benefits does not justify a mandatory or legislative process and that there would be potential dangers in taking such an approach in Wales.”


and that –

We have also considered how realistic or fair it would be for public transport workers to enforce a mandatory approach and feel it would not be practical.”


Utter hypocrisy.

54248 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 10, #147 of 1198 🔗

Shame on the Daily Telegraph for doing this:


They should be sued for incitement to hate and crimes against humanity.

This is sick.

54249 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #148 of 1198 🔗

Agree. Like the comment just underneath it though!

54252 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 8, #149 of 1198 🔗

The entire thread is sick. Whoever thought of this should be ashamed of themselves, they are perpetuating the excesses of Nazism and Communism which is creeping into our society.

54314 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 4, #150 of 1198 🔗

Agree that many of the comments are pretty much telling the Telegraph to take a hike.

54494 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #151 of 1198 🔗

What a bloody disgrace,what the hell has happened to the Telegraph ?,it’s like something the smug BBC or Guardian would post,that’s my susbscription cancelled now.

54959 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 1, #152 of 1198 🔗

Exactly. I wrote to them to complain, this is pretty much an incitement to hate.

55048 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Paul, #153 of 1198 🔗

Mine went ages ago….a former Conservative newspaper.

54251 Matthew Beresford, replying to Matthew Beresford, 5, #154 of 1198 🔗

The latest data from Liverpool is interesting. Cases week 6th-12th Jul DOWN 31 week on week to just 21.

That’s 10 days+ since the enormous celebrations in the city with accompanying massive lack of social distancing…

54341 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Matthew Beresford, 5, #155 of 1198 🔗

Will be interesting to see what happens in Liverpool next week when LFC are handed the trophy at Anfield. Pubs open, dancing in the streets etc. Beware the spike.

54710 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 1, #156 of 1198 🔗

I’m sure that’s a joke, Steven. 🙂

Thirty years of waiting will be obliviated under a tsunami of ale, and maybe other things.

There’ll be loads and loads of red smoke, singing, and ignoring ‘social distancing’.

No virus of any type will stand a cat in hell’s chance.


54254 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #157 of 1198 🔗

In the government guidelines it suggests we don’t need to wear a mask if it distresses us.


So therefore no need for lanyards. None of us need to explain. It’s in the guidelines. Point 5.

That said… it says “severe” distress. How can they measure that? Will they try to put one on me and have a scale for how hysterical I will be?

Another approach I’m taking is contacting all my favourite shops and saying this

“I don’t want to cause a scene at the door with my daughter and I cannot wear masks and we are exempt according to guidelines (under 11 and cause me distress). Will you refuse me entry? If not, how can I be made to feel comfortable to shop by you?”

I’m considering asking them to put a poster in their window so we don’t get accosted (at a distance!) by virtue signallers.

I think this may be an approach we could all take with the shops therefore showing, really, masking up is a choice and not a law! What do you think?

54262 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Country Mumkin, 11, #158 of 1198 🔗

Apparently several small shops have decided to put up posters on their windows stating that they will not be challenging people who don’t wear the muzzles. Someone contacted Simon Dolan and he shared this:


54946 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Country Mumkin, #159 of 1198 🔗

Good plan.
We don’t have to feel powerless. There are lots of small things we can do.
Chipping away ……

54255 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 11, #160 of 1198 🔗

Everyone going into hospital since mid March in the UK as well as most of the care home residents got tested in early April for Covid. In the three local EMI homes there were many + ve asymptomatics.

The average life expectancy in a care home is 18 months. No wonder the tail of the curve will be stretched out to infinity with the antics of PHE

54260 ▶▶ matt, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #161 of 1198 🔗

Out of interest, Peter T, given 1) these statistical shenanigans on the part of PHE and 2) the theory (as supported by the anecdote above the line) that deaths have been certified as Covid with no supporting evidence (and the evidence subsequently either buried or cremated) is there any way that you can see that a “true” number can ever be arrived at?

54263 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to matt, 19, #162 of 1198 🔗

no because covid19 in July 2020 is 99 % political and 1 % a health issue.

54264 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #163 of 1198 🔗

Sure, that’s a given. But in an unlikely and hypothetical situation where the was an official drive to clean up the numbers, would it even be technically possible?

54281 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 2, #164 of 1198 🔗

I dont see how you could ever arrive at anything close to accurate, although it’d be more accurate then we have now.

They presumably have dates on the positive tests and dates on the death, and potentially dates on discharge from hospitals after test. So you could probably stripe out any deaths in people who tested +ve when in hospital, were discharged and later died. You could probably also discount any +ve tests that then died more than whatever the mean time to death from infection is. Should also discount _all_ who were ‘suspected’ rather than +ve test unless they definitely had what were supposed to be the consequential effects (pneumonia copd) originally.

It might mean removing some who did die as a consequence of complications, but it also means also still being generous on others.

54257 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 8, #165 of 1198 🔗

You might wish to know that MP Liam Fox is fully on board with the mania. Thinks masks are a wonderful idea (personal correspondence). I sent him the PHE graph with masks indicated at the flat-curve point. Amazing how the medical profession have sucked it all up.

54261 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to thedarkhorse, 9, #166 of 1198 🔗

Actually the medical profession are very split along essentially political lines. The BMA head committee voted 30 to 3 in favour. Now this is a committee which views support of the BLM as a public health emergency so even there we see some heroic dissent from the madness.

54265 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #167 of 1198 🔗

Well done the 3, I guess. Incidentally, a link to this article was supplied as well:
I haven’t read it at present:
Evidence Supporting Transmission of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 While Presymptomatic or Asymptomatic

54277 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to thedarkhorse, 7, #168 of 1198 🔗

A cursory glance at the abstract shows it’s almost certainly not worth being read. I can’t recall which Dr it was I saw saying – the collapse in quality of scientific investigation/questioning during this has shocked them, suddenly seemingly all scientists are quite happy to draw conclusions from no hard evidence even when making those conclusions public can have dramatic effects in the real world.

The abstract says:
“Recent epidemiologic, virologic, and modeling reports support the possibility of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) transmission from persons who are presymptomatic (SARS-CoV-2 detected before symptom onset) or asymptomatic”

So basically, some modelling is being used and they’re basing their conclusion on reports rather than facts.

I’m amazed how much hold this idea of asymptomatic spread and ‘infection’ has got. If you deliberately tried to infect someone with a disease in the past and they didn’t get even remotely ill, surely the only conclusion you could draw is that they did not get infected & therefore were immune, not that they were ‘sick’ without being sick. That swiss site poured common sense scorn over this theory.

54284 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark II, 8, #169 of 1198 🔗

Back to the point I keep making, which is that we don’t test people for other viruses unless they’re actually sick, if at all (HIV aside). I imagine that the cold and the ‘flu also have the potential to spread asymptomatically, but nobody has ever cared, because a virus only matters if someone is actually very ill.

54288 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 4, #170 of 1198 🔗

Yep, and I’m guilty of not questioning this aspect of the reporting until I read the Swiss Drs take on it, then it was like a lightbulb moment. Given the idea of asymptomatic spread is just reported as fact though, it’s no wonder everyone thinks its possible.

I have just taken a read beyond the abstract, and it’s actually painful how shallow their ‘research’ is for drawing their conclusion… here on asymptomatic spread:

Although these reports did not identify actual virus transmission while presymptomatic or asymptomatic, the low RT-PCR Ct values (i.e., high viral load) and ability to isolate infectious SARS-CoV-2 provide plausible virologic evidence for SARS-CoV-2 transmission by persons not demonstrating symptoms.”

So…. no evidence, nothing.

54295 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark II, 2, #171 of 1198 🔗

No evidence beyond the anecdotal and, absent mass testing of the asymptomatic, how could there be? All you can possibly have is a best guess of where someone who presents as unwell might have caught it from.

Nonetheless, it seems to me to be highly probable that there is asymptomatic spread, simply because it must be circulating somehow and the great majority of symptomatic people will be staying home in bed. I think it’s probably true, I just don’t think it’s remotely important.

54431 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 1, #172 of 1198 🔗

I don’t think it is highly probably, if you are truly asymptomatic you are not ill, and therefor you have nothing to transmit.

More likely is that people have such mild symptoms they’re not divulging them and don’t even recognise them as symptoms. For instance, a headache _might_ be a symptom, but I’d say I have headache 3 days a week anyway, so I’d certainly not assume I was infected with something.

*Maybe* it doesn’t matter cos the end result is the same, it could be spread via people who are only mildly symptomatic (or pre-symptomatic), but I think it is important for them to get the facts and science behind it accurate. Be absolutely 100% totally asymptomatic people can spread it, before spreading that theory all over the world.

54482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark II, -3, #173 of 1198 🔗

Are you sure you’ve got that right? Typhoid Mary was asymptomatic but she shed virus like billy-oh. That’s the whole problem. I recall reading about a case in Afghanistan where a man who had been infected with polio via an old fashioned vaccine kept on shedding virus 44 (or was it 33?) years later.

54486 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bruno, 1, #174 of 1198 🔗


Typhoid is a bacterial infection, not a viral infection.

54557 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to John P, #175 of 1198 🔗

Sorry, thanks, my bad! So can you carry on shedding infective baccilli lifelong, but not viruses? I’ll have to Google it, I know.

54720 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, 2, #176 of 1198 🔗

You might find that definitive factual agreement on viruses is hard to come by, Sylvie. 🙂

54487 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Bruno, 1, #177 of 1198 🔗

Typhoid is bacterial not viral. From NHS: ‘ Typhoid fever is a bacterial infection that can spread throughout the body, affecting many organs. Without prompt treatment, it can cause serious complications and can be fatal.’

55187 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 1, #178 of 1198 🔗

I think the most likely is that there is some asymptomatic spread but most spread is from people with symptoms.

What these two things mean is that you can lower the herd immunity threshold significantly (from 80% to 20% easily) just by people staying at home if possible when they’re ill instead of going into work and coughing on everyone like we used to. No masks, no lockdown, no 2m, no other crap. Just that one thing.

But the second thing it means is that attempts to actually eradicate the virus are essentially doomed. Because you will have occasional situations like that Argentian ship swedenborg reported on yesterday ( https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-argentina-fishermen-trawler-ushuaia-covid19-echizen-maru-a9621716.html ) where the virus just springs back up out of nowhere.

55176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, #179 of 1198 🔗

Yes this is a very good point. I keep reading things in the Guardian and on Twitter and similar places like “we keep learning so many new things about this virus!” as if they were new… but we never went around doing so many antigen and antibody tests on people with mild (or no) illness before. The default assumption should be that this is likely not very much different from other coronaviruses.

Asymptomatic cases, cross-immunity, low antibody levels in mild infections– why wouldn’t other viruses do all that? Nobody’s proposed any solid reasons why Covid should be different in any of these characteristics.

It may be a bit more severe, or it may just be that because it’s new everyone gets infected with it at once and you notice the deaths. These viruses also probably evolve to be more infectious and less severe over time. It’s fairly likely that endemic “common cold” virus OC43 entered the human population in 1890 and caused the “Russian Flu”– a similar pandemic to this one.

It reminds me of a probably apocryphal story about x-rays. When they first started x-raying people standing up they noticed their kidneys appeared to be too far down. Many operations were performed to pin people’s kidneys up to treat this medical emergency. At some point it dawned on someone that they’d only ever seen kidneys before in people lying on tables who had been cut open and that perhaps descended kidney syndrome was nothing more than gravity.

54322 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark II, 13, #180 of 1198 🔗

It’s perfect though, if you want to control people through fear – because even if no-one is getting sick any more, you can point to asymptomatic carriers and say it might come back. That makes sure the threat never goes away. We’re going back to the dark ages in terms of critical thinking. Politics has destroyed science.

54268 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Peter Thompson, 9, #181 of 1198 🔗

Interestingly, on the oncology ward where my daughter had her first pulse of chemotherapy last week none of the parents/ carers were wearing masks. The medical professionals were, of course, you couldn’t miss their masks because they never stopped touching them…

55049 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to thedarkhorse, #182 of 1198 🔗

I gave up on him years ago.

54267 Tangelo, replying to Tangelo, 13, #183 of 1198 🔗

Regarding the “You can never recover from Covid” thing – in the early days I would follow the Worldometer site and wonder why the ‘Recovered’ column never seemed to be updated for the UK, whereas other nations seemed to be reporting hopeful stats. It stayed at about 135 (I think) for a few weeks which then became ‘NA’. So clearly someone decided that no-one is going to recover from this some time ago.

54274 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Tangelo, 6, #184 of 1198 🔗

Yep – as much as many other countries seem to be embroiled in their own farce of lockdown, masks and such – ours would seem to be based on more corruption & dictatorship instincts than most.

54298 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tangelo, 6, #185 of 1198 🔗

I used to visit the worldmeter website and noted the UK was the only country not giving recovery stats. I stopped believing the daily figures because all the countries had calculated them differently I read an Italian government spokesman even said they had over stated the deaths, obviously in the hope of being given extra EU funding!

54316 ▶▶ MRG, replying to Tangelo, 4, #186 of 1198 🔗

Prof. David Spiegelhalter sounded really surprised and aghast when this issue was discussed on R4 Today earlier this morning.

This anomaly needs addressing urgently, and the numbers reworked because these apparent Covid deaths must be helping to drive the zany policy of our thick politicians.

On another matter on R4 Today: earlier some Behavioural “Scientist” from St. Andrews Univ made a statement (I think) about Covid deaths in England being “an order of magnitude” more than Scotland. Sadly, he failed to mention that the population of England is “an order of magnitude” greater than Scotland’s.

54269 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #187 of 1198 🔗

£3bn more for NHS England to get them through the winter. Setting the scene for yet more to be given to devolved NHSs.

“The funds will be available to NHS England immediately, and are expected to be used to keep the emergency Nightingale hospitals open until March, and increase testing capacity to the 500,000 a day he had previously promised.” The guardian

There are signs the Great British Public has the gov on the ropes because use of transport is not picking up as the political ‘people and our civil ‘servns’ expected.

“Ministers are concerned that public fear about a renewed rise in coronavirus cases is deterring them from venturing out. Use of public transport has been less than expected since services were increased.” The guardian

54272 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Basics, 9, #188 of 1198 🔗

Haha, would be funny if there desire to install fear and exert control comes back to bite them on the arse. Well, it would be funny if the same thing didn’t mean it’ll basically bite us *all* on the arse in the shape of a decimated economy & therefore massively job losses and financial distress for all us proles.

54275 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark II, 10, #189 of 1198 🔗

Hard times are upon us. Masks and vaccines in an unholy hell of broken futures for all. Or a broken economy and a revolution. Thats how it *feels* this Friday morning to one member of Great British Public.

54293 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Basics, 19, #190 of 1198 🔗

I’ve decided to ignore all government and public health announcements and live my life as I want to. Mask wearing will definitely deter me from visiting or shopping.

54422 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #191 of 1198 🔗

It’s a sound outlook bella. Live your life. Breakfast of fear everyday for months it is easy to choose an alternative start to your day. Outlooks are changed simply by that one healthy choice.

54357 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Basics, 3, #192 of 1198 🔗

But have they changed their guidance not to use public transport? I haven’t heard them announce it is safe so come back to travelling.

54985 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendy, #193 of 1198 🔗

In a further effort to encourage commuters as the government tries to kickstart devastated town- and city-centre economies, Johnson lifted the presumption against using public transport. “From today we are making clear that anybody may use public transport, while of course encouraging people to consider alternative means of transport where they are available,” he said.

Does that answer your question?

54399 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Basics, 3, #194 of 1198 🔗

That magic money tree keeps on giving……

54949 ▶▶ MWT, replying to Basics, #195 of 1198 🔗

My response to the mandatory masking on public transport was to buy my first car for seven years. Control back in MY hands not Hangdog’s. Will I be in shops much after the 23rd? I’m thinking not unless they are happy to hand me stuff for cash at the door or let me in sans muzzle.

54976 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 3, #196 of 1198 🔗

Why the HELL would I want to use public transport if wearing a mask is compulsory while on it? Nowhere in the world is worth travelling to apart from somewhere that isn’t insane and getting more evil by the day. I don’t know where that is.

Also why the hell would I want to go anywhere anyway? Everywhere is shit.

55052 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Two-Six, #197 of 1198 🔗

So true.

54980 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #198 of 1198 🔗

The £3billion is mostly for extra flu vaccines!

55054 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cheezilla, #199 of 1198 🔗

Whats an extra £3 billion with half a trillion spunked up the wall.

54270 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 10, #200 of 1198 🔗

Only anecdotal, I’m afraid, but early on in the panicdemic the father of a friend of my son’s died. The family were told that if they put Covid on the death certificate, the body would be released immediately, otherwise it would be about six weeks. What a choice to have to make.
On the subject of care homes, the frail and elderly were in hospital for a reason and presumably for some sort of treatment. When they were sent to/sent back to care homes, presumably the treatment stopped so they died in droves. Many care homes are just that, they are not nursing homes so unable to give nursing care.

54308 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Margaret, 7, #201 of 1198 🔗

Personally I’d have held out for no Covid on the death certificate but I appreciate it is very hard when a family member has died. Difficult decision to make when you’re grieving.
The care home scandal is appalling and the government must be held to account for it.

54387 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Margaret, 2, #202 of 1198 🔗

Unlikely. From earlier posts, they were the so called bed blockers, i.e. certified by hospital doctors as fit to go home, but for whom no care package there or suitable placement had yet been arranged. Care homes were pressured to take them in, to empty hospital beds. Most likely they were also frequent flyers, i.e. shuttling in and out of hospital regularly, as the frail elderly do, getting patched up and returned to homes (only to repeat the process with increasing frequency until something like pneumonia finally carries them/us off).

54577 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Margaret, 3, #203 of 1198 🔗

Care home is a euphemism. Death camps is what they are. You get sent to one if the NHS can’t kill you quickly enough. I speak from experience.

54271 Mark II, replying to Mark II, #204 of 1198 🔗

Re: Wales, I don’t think (unless the CMO has done an even more sudden U-Turn that i expect he’ll do once Westminster exerts pressure) masks are compulsory anyway, so not sure why Lidl or Police would be enforcing anything anyway…

54286 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mark II, 2, #205 of 1198 🔗

Yes, no masks wearing in shops in Wales – yet. The Welsh govt did do a U-turn with transport though. Concerning all these stupid extra rules for transport reported in the Daily Mail, I’ve found NOTHING concerning these in the Welsh Government Covid guidelines, no report on the BBC Wales website, or Wales Online (both of which would normally report on such measures). I’ve got a feeling the Daily Mail is making things up. I have a friend whose husband works for Arriva Wales, so I’ll ask him to confirm or deny these reports.

54434 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mr Dee, #206 of 1198 🔗

The CMO of Wales pretty much revealed they felt they had to do it on transport in Wales purely cos of the amount of transport that crosses the border.

54978 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mr Dee, #207 of 1198 🔗

Next stop Wales! for a long as possible until the UK’s mass psychosis wears of.

54273 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #208 of 1198 🔗

A number of towns in west Wales are facing a “disaster” as they emerge from lockdown due to a number of streets being closed off by a Welsh council in an attempt to enforce social distancing.


I assume that this scenario is replicated in small towns throughout the UK?

54283 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #209 of 1198 🔗

Covered extensively in these tgreads. Yes. It is a pre c19 agenda to choke cars from the road. Agenda 2030, sustainable development goals. A UN global plan you are seeing locally in the changes in your town. The c19 has been used to leap ahead with this process. Active Travel is your news forced abnormal. Meaning electric scooters and bikes or shanks obviously.

As pointed out there is a conflict between forcing people onto publuc transport and scaring the public about the death they will cintract on it. This is irreconcilable to me at present.

Further on this change in public transport. Consider electric car charging points in inner city streets. It isn’t possible. Here in Edinburgh the ‘experts’ or academics have suggested 5 cars per lamp post can be hooked up, and a system of ride and park (!) Where by you keep your car at the out skirts and catch a bus to it.

Rishis green recovery is part of the same goals. Low/zero carbon economy.

No I am not a loon. This is years in the planning. See Habitat Conference, UN Agenda 21, Agenda 2030. Mark windows is a very well sourced activist who explains whats going on. You may feel Mark’s presentation style is conspiracist like, he always uses official sources and cites them.

54290 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Basics, 10, #210 of 1198 🔗

I agree with you. I said from the very start that the virus scam was connected to the climate change loons and the Green Agenda. The globalists are using this despicable scam to reset our society. But try convincing people of this this, you get accused of being a conspiracy theorist, tin foil hat wearer!

54302 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Basics, 3, #211 of 1198 🔗

Thanks. I’ll check out Mark Windows. Nothing you said there makes you sound like a loon. If there’s evidence out there, and it’s backed up with credible sources, then that’s valuable information as far as I’m concerned. Cheers!

54989 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 1, #212 of 1198 🔗

You are totally right. This is global Communitarianism. This IS the most important word in the world NOBODY has heard of. This IS the agenda and THIS IS why we have this fake pandemic. To drive the world towards the UN agenda 2030 sustainable development goals. The banks demand it. No more money for you if you don’t comply. This is a global reset, a global CTRL+ALT+DEL. It is a conspiracy. Its easy to read about it, there is plenty out there to read.


It all looks super. However the discerning might want to read up about what it REALLY means.

It’s not very nice at all in my opinion. Perhaps if it wasn’t being driven by some of the most evil people in the world it might be great.

I can really recommend Mark Windows. He is an expert in this area.

54285 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #213 of 1198 🔗

Yesterday the small seafront at Clevedon still had barriers across the parking-bays, although the road itself was open for driving along. Ironically about half a mile away, the SaltHouse playing fields car park was open and stuffed full of cars; people walking, mini railway operating, children running around and on swings. I’m not aware of any closed streets. although several have these ruddy social distancing roadworks signs up.

54390 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #214 of 1198 🔗

Councils excel in stupidity. In Sudbury Suffolk, the Council has suspended parking in many streets as well as the market square ‘to enforce social distancing’. It could only be social distancing for cars because people park their cars and leave (not sitting on them and make small talk with the other drivers).

One elderly lady with mobility issues (with a blue badge) had to walk long distances to get to the shops. When she tried to park in a loading bay she was told to rather park on double yellow lines.

54409 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 1, #215 of 1198 🔗

Social distsncing for cars! Our area has cancelled six drive in music concerts at the show ground. Big music names I’ve never heard of were to play. Cancelled because of fears about social distancing. Or perhaps people werent buying tickets.

54426 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 2, #216 of 1198 🔗

Probably lack of tickets, I have a drive in music concert every time I drive, then I turn my radio off or take the cd out…..

55020 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #217 of 1198 🔗

Blue badge parking on yellow lines is fine for three hours, provided you’re not causing an obstruction. Driving through roadblocks is something else!

55062 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Victoria, #218 of 1198 🔗

Council stupidity never knows any bounds.

55012 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, #219 of 1198 🔗

Yes. I did a recce the other night.
My bank is completely closed off. The normal one-way system is a nightmare here at the best of times but they have blocked off some streets.
I must write to my councillors and ask them to send me a route for a disabled person to get access to my bank.
Unfrotunately, they’re on a mission to find loads of positive test results in the shitty districts of the area…….

55058 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Mr Dee, #220 of 1198 🔗

Yes saw this in shropshire today…closed to all cars and all the roads around too. How are people supposed to reach the businesses?

54276 Will, replying to Will, 3, #221 of 1198 🔗

No comment on the BBC about Professor Gupta’s study.

54311 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Will, 1, #222 of 1198 🔗

Does anyone have any contact details for the BBC that are likely to get through to someone who will look at them? They must have some kind of news gathering network still – at least a tiny bit amid the propaganda.

54994 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, 3, #223 of 1198 🔗

Winston Smith
Truth Section
Broadcasting House
1AA 666
Should do it

55109 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Two-Six, #224 of 1198 🔗

You forgot to add c/o The Memory Hole.

54279 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #225 of 1198 🔗

Wales is planning for a nightmare scenario with coronavirus this winter

“… local outbreaks, and local lockdowns, would be required as the virus is known to spread more easily in darker, damper conditions and indoors where people are more likely to congregate as the nights draw in.”


If the authorities are panicking now over a non-event in Leicester, we must assume that they will panic when flu-season hits. I’m convinced there will be another UK-wide Lockdown in October. Any ideas on what we can do to prepare for this? Our only tactic at the moment seems to be to batten down the hatches, weather the storm and then when we emerge after Winter, strive to remove the people who inflicted this misery on us from office and seek to rebuild our shattered country.

54299 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Mr Dee, 15, #226 of 1198 🔗

They can do what they want, I will not be taking part. The only threat they have is to lock me up, but if they have already taken my liberty away how does that work?

Clog the prisons up with people eating free meals….. great idea

Resist, refuse, say no

Non violent civil disobedience

54340 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cecil B, 4, #227 of 1198 🔗

If they do have another lockdown, and a more severe one, I’m worried that I’ll end up in a detention camp somewhere. Because I will not and cannot comply. I cannot accept that 2+2=5. And I will not and cannot pay any fines they impose. But where does that leave my family, when I cannot help support them? Will there be a job waiting for me when I get out of prison? Will there be a right of appeal?

54349 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mr Dee, 12, #228 of 1198 🔗

No one’s going to prison, unless they really ask for it.

Johnson et al. are in a far weaker position than most people realise , including themselves.

The economy is tanking.Their financial position is deteriorating by the hour. It’s becoming increasingly clear that there will be no V shaped recovery – permanent and substantial damage is baked in the pie.

They are wholly dependent on the largesse of the BoE, and the noises coming from the Governor suggest that he will eventually pull the plug on QE, or at least use the threat of it to compel Johnson to actually get the economy going again rather indulging in ill-informed populist gestures.

Aside from numbers being stubborn things (2+2 does not equal 5), I sense widespread civil disobedience on the way.

And the MSM is in deep trouble too. It’s almost a cliche to say that in a downturn the first thing companies cut back on is advertising. I recall the Express laying a load of staff off a week or so ago, and someone posted here that the Guardian has done likewise in the last couple of days.

Time is running down on Johnson’s nonsense.

54351 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to TJN, 3, #229 of 1198 🔗

I really hope you’re right!

54359 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 1, #230 of 1198 🔗

The Daily Mirror announced redundancies a week or two ago and the Beeb are laying off staff as well.

54363 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to TJN, 4, #231 of 1198 🔗

But people have been going to prison.


I hope you’re right about the widespread civil disobedience. It’s already started in the Netherlands.


I’ve seen video evidence of masked thugs spilling out of a police van at one of these Dutch protests, inciting violence at a peaceful demonstration, then falling back to the police lines, to let the riot squad go in and do their work (check out Uk Column News, 15 July, 20:15 – Netherlands: further draconian regulations introduced – public protest follows
Fascism rising: Dutch police appear to be deliberately provoking a riot…).

54378 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #232 of 1198 🔗

Hadn’t seen that! But it was the IoMan, and there were additional factors. Clearly spitting, or attempting to spit, at a police officer is only done by someone who wants to go to prison, and is vile.

I don’t recall anyone being put in the slammer here unless there were serious aggravating factors.

54462 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to TJN, 3, #233 of 1198 🔗

Exactly. Non compliance with masks in shops will only be used to break up gangs of rowdy teenagers, deal with shoplifters or similar. Bit like stop and search. You only need mutter ‘exempt, got a condition’ and ignore thereafter.

54424 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Michel, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #234 of 1198 🔗

I was at the spot in the Netherlands. Until the thugs arrived everything WAS peaceful; police and protesters respected eachother.
Then the (police) thugs arrived and things got nasty. Funny though, dispite the video evidence the Dutch government will not investigate the police actions of that day…now why am I not surprised?

55027 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, #235 of 1198 🔗

I saw that. Some very disturbing things happening in NL.

54408 ▶▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to TJN, 3, #236 of 1198 🔗

Agree Edna really hope TJN is right. There are going be be swathes of the population out of work out of money out on the streets

54417 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Keen Cook, 5, #237 of 1198 🔗

An economically straitened government is a weak government, and in politics there’s no room for the weak. When people feel financial pain – which won’t be long – they will turn on this lot with a vengeance. QE can only postpone the inevitable.

55069 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to TJN, 1, #238 of 1198 🔗

The only reason they have got away with this is because people liked being paid 80% for having a long holiday. When the money runs out attitudes will change. I find that ALL lockdown Nazis are those whose incomes are secure. Even for those working from home their companies will soon work out if people can do the job at home why not outsource the job to india where someone will do the job for a fraction of the salary.

54414 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #239 of 1198 🔗

All roads out of Dover will be a total snarl up after 31 December, deal or not. A coincidental Kent lockdown, because of say an ‘outbreak,’ which only needs to be 2 people testing positive in the same setting i. e.workplace, school, care home, say in Ashford (second only to Leicester for infection rates at end June, spared their fate due to a solidly Conservative MP and council) would help enormously…

54282 karenovirus, 8, #240 of 1198 🔗

“Why nobody in England will ever recover from Covid 19”, just covered in full Radio 4 Today 08.20 Speigelhater called the revelation ‘extraordinary’

54287 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 23, #241 of 1198 🔗

Following on from the tweet I saw in the Daily Telegraph, I have sent them this email:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to complain about this:


It is contemptible that this and the whole article was ever written let alone cleared for publication. Who authorised this?

You of all people should not be encouraging this behaviour which is redolent of Nazi Germany, East Germany and Stalinist Russia. The fact that the measures that are currently in place is already eroding the bonds of society and this article is irresponsible by encouraging that further weakening of bond and trust between people. You are encouraging wannabe Hitlers and Stalins to harass and intimidate people who don’t owe them an explanation.

Because of this I will be boycotting your newspaper. The media have behaved disgracefully throughout this crisis and this article is another nail in the coffin of an institution.

Thank you and I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,
etc, etc….

54305 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #242 of 1198 🔗

Good letter. I still have a Telegraph subscription (although I’ve cancelled it three times and restarted) but it’s really so that I can keep up to date on international travel arrangements. Once September comes I will be cancelling the subscription for good, even though the Telegraph have actually had some good columnists.

54317 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to CarrieAH, 5, #243 of 1198 🔗

Thank you CarrieAH. That article made my blood boil and that’s why I was compelled to write that email. It’s unethical and the height of irresponsible journalism.

54289 Albie, replying to Albie, 18, #244 of 1198 🔗

Over the past few years I thought that significant strides had been made regarding public awareness of hidden mental health illnesses. As evidenced by the plethora of passive aggressive memes and posts on social media and the internet directed at non-mask wearers over the past week I was clearly wrong. People suffering from extreme stress and anxiety log in to their social media only to read updates from friends and family etc, people they thought they could rely on, scolding non-mask wearers, calling them selfish or worse. Many of these same friends will have in the past posted updates regarding poor mental health being an unseen illness. Yes it’s unseen and evidently forgotten as soon as a perceived threat to one’s own health raises its head. A virtually nonexistent threat, but that’s digressing. Mindfulness of the feelings of anxiety suffering friends goes right out of the window when finger wagging (and much worse) updates are posted on Facebook particularly.

I ask, who are really the selfish ones?

54292 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Albie, 14, #245 of 1198 🔗

That’s why I’ve muted people I know including family who virtue signal with their muzzles on social media and the irony is not lost on me because these were the same people going on and on about mental health and compassion for those who are living with them. Not to mention the overuse of the word “kindness” and “be kind”

It’s grotesque and repulsive.

54306 ▶▶▶ Albie, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #246 of 1198 🔗

For me it demonstrates that their previous mental health awareness updates were borne out of virtuosity rather than sincerity. They will be the same people who say that they are there any time for anyone suffering, but in reality would inwardly sigh and groan if they really did get asked for support from a FB friend.

54346 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Albie, 3, #247 of 1198 🔗

Agree. It was all to show how good and caring they are when they are actually nothing of the sort.

55006 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #248 of 1198 🔗

I am not on any social media. I don’t have any friends.

54294 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Albie, 4, #249 of 1198 🔗

I find screaming ‘fuck you’ at them helps

54301 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Albie, 5, #250 of 1198 🔗

Sadly it appears that once fear is instilled in some people, kindness goes out of the window.

54328 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Albie, 2, #251 of 1198 🔗

I could not agree more.

54742 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Adam, 1, #252 of 1198 🔗

Yep, hate is not the opposite of love. Fear is.

54332 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Albie, 6, #253 of 1198 🔗

This has been going on prior to crazy virus world. For me the same idiots on Facebook posting you must wear a mask to save others are the exact same people who during the Brexit referendum would be there posting how leaving the EU was a terrible idea and it would be the end of life as we know it.

Soical media is a very nasty place a lot of the time. It shouldn’t be but you tend to get the virtuous people basically telling you how to run your life.

In this case I think the pro mask community are actually all so afraid of either getting the virus or giving it to someone else that they feel the need to constantly tell people about it.

Thinking back to the guy Tony who wrote to Toby to say that mandatory makes made him suicidal and then he puts in the comments that for him that was the end of the line and he’d end his life. Presumably he felt he had no one to turn to who would listen to his viewpoint, potentially on social media, so the only place he felt safe to air his feelings was on this excellent page. That is horrendously sad to me.

54354 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ambwozere, 13, #254 of 1198 🔗

Soical media is a very nasty place a lot of the time. It shouldn’t be but you tend to get the virtuous people basically telling you how to run your life.

In this case I think the pro mask community are actually all so afraid of either getting the virus or giving it to someone else that they feel the need to constantly tell people about it.

Hear, hear!!! The selfies are disturbing, why in God’s name would you want a photo of yourself where no-one can see your face and expression? Or why do you want to model a piece of cloth that pretty much render you speechless? I don’t care if the muzzle is made out of “cutesy” floral prints or those with cartoon characters, its still sinister and distressing.

It’s all about virtue signalling and emotional blackmail, as if to say I wear my mask because I care, why aren’t you doing the same? Don’t you care?

They can go take a hike is all I can say.

54411 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #255 of 1198 🔗

For the same reason people go all the way to some of the most beautiful places on earth, and then take a selfie where the only thing you can see is their gigantic face filling the entire photo. Vanity

54451 ▶▶▶▶▶ microdave, replying to Mark II, 4, #256 of 1198 🔗

And then take a selfie where the only thing you can see is their gigantic face filling the entire photo

Nearly 36 years ago I saved up my pennies, climbed aboard a 747, and set off for a month long holiday in Australia. Dad insisted I took his camera, and despite having never used it before, ended up bringing back 22 rolls of 35mm film – nearly 700 pictures! But I got a right bollocking from Mum because the ONLY one which in which I appeared was a shot of my feet, while standing on the Great Barrier Reef…

54499 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark II, #257 of 1198 🔗

That’s a good point and you see that a lot on social media too.

55018 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #258 of 1198 🔗

I have seen quite few young ladies taking selfies of themselves wearing face-nappies. When I have been out and about. Some probably did some quite good photos judging by the care they were taking when positioning themselves against thier chosen backgrounds and the expressions they were trying to pull WITH THEIR EYES!
Lol. Brainwashed idiots.

55074 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Two-Six, #259 of 1198 🔗

I was attacked by 2 of them as I came out (unmasked) of a pub today…to quote Denis Healey it was like being savaged by a dead sheep!

55434 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, #260 of 1198 🔗

I’ve seen them and to be honest any expression coming out of their eyes looked rather forced.

54427 ▶▶ John P, replying to Albie, -1, #261 of 1198 🔗

I hadn’t heard of the concept of “hidden mental illnesses”, but I expect that it is another big pharma promoted drive to get people on more drugs.

I strongly believe that a lot of individuals (not all) who consider themselves to have some sort of mental illness are delusional – which of course could be seen as something of a contradiction!

Their “illness” is the fact that they believe that they are ill !

Some Eastern philosophies promote meditation and mindfulness, which, if properly understood, and practiced regularly and correctly, can greatly reduce, or even almost entirely eliminate mental distress.

55021 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to John P, 2, #262 of 1198 🔗

I have always been crazy. I think this is why I am immune to their bullshit.

54438 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Albie, 3, #263 of 1198 🔗

This is a good point. One thing we all can do, myself included, is not use the shirthand terms for people we are making a point against. Lauging at all who wear masks for example. Some are truly scared for their lives and don’t have the understanding to realise as sceptical people do. Clearly there are others who wear masks for narcissistic reasons and have no comprehension of the damage thier actions bring to us all. If we respect each other we can truly progress.

55084 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Basics, #264 of 1198 🔗

Thats a very optimistic view!

55113 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Albie, #265 of 1198 🔗

Too right! I suffered extreme anxiety when I had to wear one. There are no Nationwide TV ads extolling our courage in having to suffer this anxiety.

54300 grammarschoolman, 1, #266 of 1198 🔗

Given yesterday’s events at (and far away from) the cricket, we should just borrow the theme tune from The Archers.

54307 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 15, #267 of 1198 🔗

3bn for the NHS. 80% of the staff have nothing to do. Our GP surgery just packed up, went home, and never came back. ( I hear most of them are in Tuscany at the moment)

Time to make huge redundancies, and give the people their money back

54524 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Cecil B, 1, #268 of 1198 🔗

Oh you can never give too much money to the NHS, It is such a wonderful organisation tat it can consume as much money as you can give it.

55089 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Polemon2, 2, #269 of 1198 🔗

The NHS is the nearest financial equivalent to a black hole. No amount of money will ever be enough.

54572 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Cecil B, 1, #270 of 1198 🔗

£3bn. How many TikTok subscriptions does that buy?

55042 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Old Bill, #271 of 1198 🔗

Dunno but it buys a lot of extra flu vaccine.

Despite warning of the risks of a winter resurgence in the virus, the prime minister maintained an upbeat tone in Friday’s speech and said measures were being put in place to mitigate the possibility of a second wave. He announced an extra £3bn for the NHS and a significant expansion of flu vaccinations.

54310 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #272 of 1198 🔗

A few unrelated thoughts for the day.

On the Sue Denim analysis of the latest ICL death model for this winter, I see all three references in support of the 1.1% IFR emanate from the ICL team in one shape or another. The paper should be rejected by the editor of whichever journal it is ultimately submitted to on grounds of ‘self plagiarism’. Of course, it will likely end up in The Lancet – enough said. More importantly, however, is that one of the studies cited relies on NHS blood transfusion stats. As a call was put out for anyone who had tested positive to donate blood for one of the largest recovering plasma studies, it is a ‘super mined’ dataset to say the least.

James Brokenshire was interviewed on Sky this morning. Key takeaway: ‘a second wave is not inevitable’. My take on this, and accepting it might be wishful thinking given the number of U turns and contradictions from this shower, is this the start of the climbdown?

Sir Patrick Vallance is part of the problem and not the solution.

54318 ▶▶ Toby Pierides, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #273 of 1198 🔗

You mean Patrick Vallance, erstwhile employee of Smithkline Beecham?!

54319 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Toby Pierides, 7, #274 of 1198 🔗

And current employee of Gates.

54356 ▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to IanE, 5, #275 of 1198 🔗

Also Whitty has been in receipt of Gates’ largesse in the past…and is currently nominated to (by Hancock) become an executive member of the (Gates-funded) WHO…the conflicts of interest at the highest levels of government should be raising a lot of questions…!

55032 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Humanity First, 2, #276 of 1198 🔗

The conflicts of interests are just SICKENING.

55331 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Humanity First, #277 of 1198 🔗

If you go to the Gates Foundation website they have a timeline that begins from 1997 to this day, listing just about everything that they have been doing in the past twenty-three years. Not in great detail, more like ticker tape information. If anyone had the means to dig deeper I’m sure this person would soon discover how vast the global reach of this foundation really is.

55028 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to IanE, 1, #278 of 1198 🔗

And long time chairman of one of the most evil companies on the planet. That had the living crap sued out of them over and over and over again. See Vernon Coleman’s video on all this.

55118 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to IanE, #279 of 1198 🔗

And future Chairman of Global Pharmaceuticals Inc

54333 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #280 of 1198 🔗

Regarding Brokenshire, it depends if he went on to qualify it with “as long as we all wear masks” or some other bullshit.

54312 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 32, #281 of 1198 🔗

I refuse to wear an exemption badge because I don’t have what I consider to be a disability that would prevent me wearing a mask.
But I still won’t wear a mask.
Now is the time to rise up and show this nannying, irrational and increasingly psychopathic government that enough is enough: give us our lives back!

54364 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #282 of 1198 🔗

But you *will* suffer from hypoxia and hypercapnia. So you are indeed exempt.

54413 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to RickH, #283 of 1198 🔗

That’s not the point, Rick

54591 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to RickH, #284 of 1198 🔗


54444 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #285 of 1198 🔗

I agree. And I respect others concerned about confrontations. In practice few can be bothered to confront anyone. We are all trying to live peacefully. Their are exceptions which of course find their way to social and msm. These are exceptions. I am with J Castro on this.

54740 ▶▶ DownWithBedwetters, replying to Jonathan Castro, 4, #286 of 1198 🔗

Exemption badges are more to do with dealing with Little Hitler shop assistants.

You can argue about princple until you are blue in the face but if they have the authority to deny you service, they will. They love the power.

Much easier to just wear an exemption badge, which they aren’t allowed to question.

55059 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DownWithBedwetters, #287 of 1198 🔗

Better not to wear one but only brandish one if challenged.

55126 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #288 of 1198 🔗

So how will you get food? Have it delivered? Not really an effective protest. 20% of people walking around in sipermarkets with exempt badges will undermine the policy.

54321 Cecil B, 8, #289 of 1198 🔗

Defund the NHS

54331 IanE, replying to IanE, 1, #290 of 1198 🔗

Odd to have Maxwell/Epstein brought up here, perhaps?

On second thoughts, I imagine the authorities will now be wondering if they could get away with saying that Epstein died of Covid!

54367 ▶▶ wendy, replying to IanE, 2, #291 of 1198 🔗

Mhmm, perhaps it could be used to discredit Toby and this site?

54376 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to wendy, 1, #292 of 1198 🔗

Thought that the other day when the photo was in one of the papers (Mail or Telegraph). There was also a set of photos in Telegraph from Oxford balls in the early/mid 80s, with various members of Bullingdon Club, various ‘It girls’, including Ghislaine Maxwell, and of course Toby. How many of us are guilty by association for being in the same room as someone?

54410 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to wendy, #293 of 1198 🔗

I doubt it and given that Toby has himself written about the matter, and posted his piece here would seem to negate that possibility.

The photo I had seen before, but I wasn’t sure that it was Toby. I think I might have denied all knowledge!

54538 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to IanE, 1, #294 of 1198 🔗

Broken neck? Textbook symptom.

54334 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 6, #295 of 1198 🔗

Annie’s brilliant take in the Ten Commandments got me thinking. I wonder how long it will take the 99.95% of us to realise that we have all been sacrificed on the altar of the great God Corona for the 0.05%.

54344 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Margaret, 8, #296 of 1198 🔗

Except that our sacrifices have NOT saved any of the 0.05%.

54400 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to IanE, 6, #297 of 1198 🔗

Never has so much been sacrificed by so many, for absolutely nothing.

54454 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Margaret, 2, #298 of 1198 🔗

I liked Annies Coronamdments too. It got be thinking about loaves and fish(es). Perhaps we are all mistaken and Christianity does run through the heart of Downing Street. Handjob and Sunak able to miracle money for the masses out of small change behind the sofa.

54662 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 1, #299 of 1198 🔗

Johnson, Hancock, Whitty, Ferguson and co should be beware of the reckoning in the form of either the 10 plagues in Exodus or this from the book of Revelation:

The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.

The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.

The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night.

 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”

54744 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #300 of 1198 🔗

Think I’ll pick up the trumpet, I’m sold!

55086 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #301 of 1198 🔗

Will a French Horn do?

55332 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, #302 of 1198 🔗

I think Wormwood was the name of a character in C.S. Lewis’s ‘The Screwtape Letters’.

54481 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Margaret, #303 of 1198 🔗

I missed them – when did she post them?

54569 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #304 of 1198 🔗

On the previous post to this.

54335 Hoppy Uniatz, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 8, #305 of 1198 🔗

I have to confess I did wear a mask – an FFP1 sanding mask, back in April, when we had that pandemic. If anyone asks me why I’m not wearing them now the answer will be “I did, why didn’t you ask all these other buggers back when we had that covid outbreak earlier in the year.”

54479 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 1, #306 of 1198 🔗

I wore one whilst painting anti-fouling on my boat.

54704 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #307 of 1198 🔗

What pandemic?

55044 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, #308 of 1198 🔗

“My Mate” wore a mask while inhaling Nitrous Oxide and furiously shagging a watermelon, so he told me anyway…

54337 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 4, #309 of 1198 🔗

I’m sure this has been posted here before, but thought worth relinking. Relating to the list of names and their field of expertise, this was the original letter, signed by hundreds of scientists and “experts”, that supposedly influenced the gov position on lockdown.


A scroll through the signatories is quite interesting.

54352 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #310 of 1198 🔗

Lots of mathematicians and they still can’t get the sums right!!!

54338 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #311 of 1198 🔗

If the Dambusters were alive today the police would lock them up, and they would be dismissed from the RAF

On the upside it would have prevented those who never came back from sacrificing their lives

54342 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Cecil B, 5, #312 of 1198 🔗

If the Dambusters were alive today, they’d be banned for having a racist dog. Obviously.

54374 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Ben Shirley, #313 of 1198 🔗

How do ascertain if a dog is racist? “Are you racist?, bark once for yes. bark twice for no?’ Just asking

54362 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cecil B, 4, #314 of 1198 🔗

It would never have got that far. On present showing, 80% of the population would have rushed to the White Cliffs in order to wave white flags long before that. A good number would have been exercising their right arms in preparation for submission whilst seeking out dissenters.

55134 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, #315 of 1198 🔗

Until the Soviet Union was invaded the Owen Joneses and Ash Sarkars of the time were trying to get British workers to give up on the struggle, whilst many race hustlers were arguing that all Germans had a right to live in Ein Reich.

54339 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 14, #316 of 1198 🔗

Ostensibly, the news from Lidl and other supermarkets that they weren’t be enforcing the mask law is promising, but let’s not pretend there’s any philanthropic motivation. If they were to enforce it, they’d probably find themselves in a worse predicament through a) substantial loss of custom or b) a lawsuit being brought against them under the Equality Act 2010 for harassing a disabled person.

I’ve been working in a Sainsbury’s all the time the government has made it impossible for me to pursue my work as a freelance motoring journalist and I breathed a sigh of relief when Matt Hancock said the face mask decree would not apply to shop colleagues, since breathing in their own recycled air for an eight-hour shift would obviously, even by their fantasy science, be worse than the miniscule risk of contracting a serious case of Covid.

Unfortunately, Sainsbury’s is doing its bit to further the totalitarian takeover of its own accord. This is from an official statement published today: “From 24th July, colleagues will need to wear a face covering if they’re on the shop floor while the stores are open.”

Here’s the link, though you might need a Sainsbury’s log-in to see it: https://jsainsbury.sharepoint.com/sites/OurSainsburys/Retail/OpsCommsLibrary/Daily/News@9%20-%2017%20July%202020.pdf

A relative is a manager in a different Sainsbury’s and has told me in confidence that Sainsbury’s eventually intends to issue each colleague with three reusable face masks in fetching Sainsbury’s maroon. Those who don’t want to wear one will get one of those Perspex Cyberman welding mask things.

I will say it again: I will not put a face mask on for anyone. I would rather be on the dole.

Incidentally, my Sainsbury’s and my relative’s employ around 200 people each. How many of our colleagues have come down with Covid? Precisely none.

54401 ▶▶ John P, replying to Ben Shirley, 11, #317 of 1198 🔗

Yes, I was in a Tesco Express a couple of days ago and a newly-muzzled shelf filler was telling me that the company were making it a policy as it would be “unfair” to have shoppers muzzled and not staff.

The fact that staff are present for hours on end and shoppers only in store a half an hour or so max does not seem to have occurred to them.

54622 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #318 of 1198 🔗

If they were to enforce it, they’d probably find themselves in a worse predicament through a) substantial loss of custom or b) a lawsuit being brought against them under the Equality Act 2010 for harassing a disabled person.

Not only that but they can also be done for assault (if they try to manhandle a customer to force them out) and racially motivated crimes (if the customer happens to be from an ethnic minority). That’s the last thing the shops want – they don’t want the hassle of being taken to court and the negative publicity associated with it.

55095 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #319 of 1198 🔗

The shops don’t want the hassle. The police don’t want the hassle. It will be left to the yobs and busybodies.

55093 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ben Shirley, 1, #320 of 1198 🔗

Back in the 60s, all your colleagues would have presented a united front and refused to wear them.

54343 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 19, #321 of 1198 🔗

Anyone else noticed that today’s graph (saw it in the Daily fail) is now showing daily infections and not daily deaths?

Would this be to make things look bad again by any chance?

54353 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #322 of 1198 🔗

Infections from the dodgy testing kits???

54360 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #323 of 1198 🔗

‘Cases’ and ‘infections’ ‘presence’ – not ‘illness’ have been the measure all along.

Most people, though, haven’t cottoned onto the scam and the critical differences that the language aims to conceal..

54371 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, 4, #324 of 1198 🔗

I understood initially that ‘cases’ referred to hospital admissions, but that might have been the U.S. definition (so long ago, I can’t remember exactly).
There’s definitely been a concerted effort, not just in the UK, to massage the numbers upwards.
This happened in Colorado, where there was a big stink over a man who’d died of alcohol poisoning who’d been counted as a CV19 death. The state had gone back over its death records, and the number of CV19 deaths were reduced by 25%.

54368 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #325 of 1198 🔗

Bar stewards.

54395 ▶▶ John P, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #326 of 1198 🔗

I think it’s all designed to maintain the fear levels, lest we forget and go back to our old, normal routines.

54396 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #327 of 1198 🔗

Goalposts being moved again then by the press to keep their clicks coming in.

54402 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #328 of 1198 🔗

All to stay away from these tests . The results are meaningless but can be used to close down cities, the tests are not reliable (false positives and false negatives).

54355 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #329 of 1198 🔗

My position has always been that if the state is going to curtail our liberty, it needs a very good reason for doing so.

This is the UK. In my experience, there never is any such good reason to curtail liberty. There’s all sorts of tiny issues that prove it.

The list can go on and on, i’m sure. We are too used to the American principle of law to recognize how abusive European laws are. In the US freedom and rights are considered god-given. The state cannot take away your rights unless it has a very, very good reason for it. The default is freedom, and limitations are the exception. Such exceptions are introduced into the law because it is beneficial to society. (Well, at least, that’s the principle. Abuses are still made). In the rest of the world rights are considered state-given. The state decides what rights you have. The default is limitations, and freedom is the exception. Limitations are introduced into the law when the state finds something they didn’t consider before and never gave permission for.

54358 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #330 of 1198 🔗

Your sanguine view of US ‘liberty’ would be laughed at by many there suffering from the same Covid nonsense as here.

54551 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to RickH, #331 of 1198 🔗

I was talking about the principle of the thing.

55040 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cristi.Neagu, #332 of 1198 🔗

UK principle has always been the same. An awful lot of over-legislating starting in the Blair era – some EU driven, some not – has muddied the waters a great deal, but the common law principle remains that it is allowed unless it is specifically forbidden. Most continental European countries – especially but not only those conquered by Napoleon – operate on a civil law system, which tries to codify what you are allowed to do as well as what you’re not allowed to do.

54393 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #333 of 1198 🔗

European laws’ – are you suggesting Britain has no part in making stupid laws? If this ‘pandemic’ has shown you anything, it should be that given more control with no checks on them, the British politicians will not make life better, but considerably worse and more restricted for all of us, with less protections, far more corruption and significantly lower quality of life.

54550 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Mark II, #334 of 1198 🔗

European laws, not European Union laws (which is not to say European Union laws aren’t stupid). The UK has always been part of Europe.

54476 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #335 of 1198 🔗

The Federal Government’s conviction rate of 99.8% would embarrass North Korea. No wonder so many confess to lesser crimes they haven’t committed in the hope of a lesser sentence. USA is a wonderful place but its legal system and harsh sentencing are pretty scary. @Barnes_Law is a good place to start.

54547 ▶▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #336 of 1198 🔗

I was talking about the principle of the thing, which is why i explicitly said abuses are made.

54589 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #337 of 1198 🔗

The principles based on Magna Carta and 1689 Bill of Rights just like UK.

54361 nowhereman, 7, #338 of 1198 🔗

False Positives

According to: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/895843/S0519_Impact_of_false_positives_and_negatives.pdf

the median false positive rate of the UK’s COVID-19 RT-PCR testing programme has been estimated to be 2.3% (interquartile range 0.8-4.0%).

Now, per https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/testing the daily number of pillar1 + pillar2 tests is running at about 120k, whilst the daily number of new cases is running at about 600, giving a positive detection rate of 0.5%.

Surely this demonstrates that reported number of cases cannot be trusted to be at all accurate, and the majority could be false positives…

54365 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #339 of 1198 🔗

Hancock just announced urgent review announced into how PHE calculates daily death figures.

While he is on, can he look at the other point made by Professor Heneghan’s team last night on the recovery numbers.

Preparing the ground for a U turn/climb down?

54379 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #340 of 1198 🔗

So the covid deaths are fiddled, Who knew?

54381 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, 4, #341 of 1198 🔗

“Our NHS” what a glorious institution!

54382 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to JohnB, 2, #342 of 1198 🔗

Today they got a 3bn bung as a thank you

54388 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, 6, #343 of 1198 🔗

Throwing yet more money at a failing institution. Just p*ssing it down the drain.

54555 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to JohnB, 1, #344 of 1198 🔗

I don’t want to quibble over semantics, but ‘failing’ is a present tense. ‘Failed’ is the word you are looking for.

54450 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, #345 of 1198 🔗

“Our NHS” what a glorious institution!”

Don’t blame the workers for the political incompetence of Handcock and predecessors, and be thankful you’re not suffering the US ‘less for more’ experience.

54647 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to RickH, #346 of 1198 🔗

They are all just following orders after all.

54386 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cecil B, 4, #347 of 1198 🔗

They will still point to the excess deaths tally and pretend that they must all be because of Covid, instead of looking at age of deaths, locations, conditions and concluding many are probably likely due to neglect causing their existing conditions (of which old age should be counted as a ‘condition’) to worsen as lockdown took hold and people were left isolated or terrified to seek help.

54391 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 6, #348 of 1198 🔗

It bizarre, because if someone drove down the M1 now and a lorry took them out and killed them, because they had suspected or confirmed COVID-19 back in April but had recovered, their death would be classed as COVID-19.

54407 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 6, #349 of 1198 🔗

Of course ‘excess’ deaths is a nonsense figure in the first place – that’s why it’s used. It’s what might be called a ‘Ferguson number’ – a startlingly inaccurate (‘rubber band’) GI>GO prediction of the the future calculated for political ends.

Hang onto historical perspective and the relative size of mortality in a given year in a wider context. A 3-5 year moving average as a baseline of ‘what ought to be’ is bollocks.

So – the fact is that, although higher than the mean or median, cumulative deaths this past season are not particularly exceptional in terms of the past 25-50 years

54380 ▶▶ A Reader, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #350 of 1198 🔗

I don’t often comment on this site but this story is absolutely unbelievable. What on earth can be happening at Public Health England, and within the wider government, such that nobody has realised this already.

54480 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to A Reader, 8, #351 of 1198 🔗

Oh, I expect they realised all right – just hadn’t been found out yet. I don’t think any of those people are much interested in truth, or health, any more. It’s just arse covering and pleasure in the exercise of power.

54389 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #352 of 1198 🔗

There will still be claims on the excess deaths count.

I notice on the Guardian article them pointing out ‘scotland uses a 28 day cut off’ as if that sounds any better. The very fact that none of them are actually properly checking what these people died of is a scandal, whether its up to 28 days after +ve or 3 months, if you’re hit by a bus or die of your cancer it’s still totally inaccurate

54471 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark II, 2, #353 of 1198 🔗

Completely agree. No further comment by me on this point. Spot on. Not autopsies is a scandal and it was/is policy.

54578 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, #354 of 1198 🔗

It is cruel to give relatives a lengthy wait for a death certificate, by ordering a post mortem, when the frail elderly relative has died of one or more existing conditions and has been finished off by CV19, flu, pneumonia or whatever. And it would only confirm that they died of organ failure or whatever, you’d only need a swab to find CV19. So not sure why you think absence of routine autopsies was scandalous?

54739 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bruno, 3, #355 of 1198 🔗

It’s scandalous that families who know what their relative has been suffering are from are told covid. It disrespectful and we treat people better than that. We have respect and show that by doing thing well to the best of our abilities. I would wager the employee contracts of those involved have words to the effect that the public are entitled to expect the highest standards from each employees service. This isn’t that. This is a grubby policy that undermines the prinicples of dignity in death. That’s why.

54525 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #356 of 1198 🔗

A spot of arse-covering, I should think. When it comes to crackdowns, lockdowns, face-masks and stupid rules, Hancock is like the Duracell Bunny – he never stops.

54650 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #357 of 1198 🔗

Hasn’t the USA just done something similar into changing who does what to the data so more countries following suit soon as the orders from above promulgate through the system?

54375 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 1, #358 of 1198 🔗

Very revealing article which seems to set out the very well-thought out template which most of the world is following (so not supporting the incompetent/bumbling government theory)… it also implies UK was late to join the full-lockdown herd…

“We’re not going back to normalSocial distancing is here to stay for much more than a few weeks. It will upend our way of life, in some ways forever.”


54377 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Humanity First, 4, #359 of 1198 🔗

So the covid death stats are fiddled? Who knew?

54384 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cecil B, #360 of 1198 🔗


54405 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 5, #361 of 1198 🔗

A vast majority of the deaths is due to doctor and paramedics not even attending Care Homes when people were ill, some of the reports I’ve read said that doctors would only speak to Care Home staff over Factime on iPads even when someone was dying. Then you have hospitals prioritising younger patients with a greater chance of survival over the elderly patients.

54423 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, 9, #362 of 1198 🔗

There are 4 groups of likely avoidable deaths that need to be investigated:

Deaths at home, or in transit to A&E, as a result of people staying at home for too long under the ‘Stay at home, save lives, save the NHS’ order

Deaths from admissions to hospital where patients were intubated, which some studies have shown can lead to an 80% death rate

Deaths from CV for those already in hospital who then caught it (nosocomial transmission)

Deaths from early release of non-tested patients to care homes

How many deaths are left after stripping these deaths from the data – hardly any, as we know!

54465 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #363 of 1198 🔗

Very helpful summary thank you.

54464 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 2, #364 of 1198 🔗

I intend to ask GP Doctors I encounter in future how they personally did during these times. Politely enquire after how their c19 experience was. Quizzically.

54466 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Basics, 3, #365 of 1198 🔗

Sort of, ‘what did you do in the war daddy’?

54562 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to bluemoon, 1, #366 of 1198 🔗

That’s the spirit yes. I have seen the patients on the street being consulted through the locked glass door. I think I have a duty to ask the question in person and let them see my involuntary reaction. Not passive agressively just simple my honest disgust. Politely.

54583 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JohnB, 2, #367 of 1198 🔗

Let’s face it, as Peter Thompson the experienced GP wrote some time ago, it can often be preferable for the frail elderly to die peacefully in their care home among familiar faces, than be carted off to hospital (again) for all sorts of interventions on a hectic, noisy ward among strangers.

55110 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bruno, 1, #368 of 1198 🔗

When I didn’t realise my DH was dying (of ischemia from heart failure), at first I felt guilty that I hadn’t twigged and called an ambulance.
However, he died peacefully in his sleep, at home, not in a hospital surrounded by strangers and beeping machines.
It’s how I’d like to go!

54447 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Humanity First, 1, #369 of 1198 🔗

MIT are establishment lackeys these days, predictable they put this crap out.

54472 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Humanity First, 17, #370 of 1198 🔗

“We’re not going back to normalSocial distancing is here to stay for much more than a few weeks. It will upend our way of life, in some ways forever.”

What baffles me, when I see people write this stuff, is how enthusiastic they seem. I mean, I get that some people are bored with their lives and like to feel as if they are living through something apocalyptic, or make grand statements, but surely most people, after thinking like that for a little while, would start to think, well actually this upending of life is really shit, do we really need to do it, and be super keen to find a way out of it, or a reason to just go back to normal.

I feel like I am on a planet of weirdos, present company excepted.

54561 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Julian, 3, #371 of 1198 🔗

I think you have identified a very important point. What is “normal” will depend on a person’s own sense of common humanity, empathy,etc. It seems obvious that a lot of the people running the big corporations/countries (i.e. those who make the decisions that affect all our lives) are basically psychopaths, so what is “normal” for them will actually be a literal hell for the rest of us.

55366 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Humanity First, #372 of 1198 🔗

Yes and as JohnB says below, they are aided and abetted by masochistic tendencies in the general population.

54754 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, #373 of 1198 🔗

Masochism is more widely spread than we thought.

55104 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Humanity First, #374 of 1198 🔗

That was written in March. Yikes!

54383 microdave, replying to microdave, #375 of 1198 🔗

Sir Patrick Vallance who told the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee that SAGE urged the Cabinet to lock down a week earlier

Only a week? A professor at the UEA says it should have been 10 days earlier!


But then, with the UEA, we are talking about the home of Climategate…

This story has been on the homepage of the EDP since release over a month ago, but has now finally been removed. Can’t imagine why they would want to stop the scaremongering…

54385 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to microdave, 4, #376 of 1198 🔗

I thought there was nothing in the Sage minutes that were released about a lockdown. I think they said they didn’t recommend full lockdown.

54507 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to ambwozere, 1, #377 of 1198 🔗

I read it too.

54511 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to ambwozere, 3, #378 of 1198 🔗

Correct.In the minutes released,lockdown was only mentioned once in regards to London then forgotten about.They were content to see the results of the social distancing measures that had already been implemented.There will be a lot of this revision art history going about now.Hancock even got the start date of the lockdown wrong in response to a question regarding care homes.

54512 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #379 of 1198 🔗

It should read revisonist history

54397 ▶▶ RickH, replying to microdave, 2, #380 of 1198 🔗

There is lots of evidence now to show that Lock-Up is unrelated to the overall spread of Covid.

54392 RickH, replying to RickH, 17, #381 of 1198 🔗

The Oxford CEBM paper is massively significant.

The group has been very careful in handling the clear indications that their data shows. They have, on the whole, left it to the data to speak for itself – apart from calling for an end to Lock-Up at a comparatively early stage.

So this indictment of the figures is important – and, as usual, understated. It was, however, foreshadowed by other balanced analyses about government bullshit measures that led to the same conclusions if the real world interpretations were filled in.

Looks like Handcock is trying to pre-empt flak, but I have seen no report that precedes the news of his announcement – has anyone else?

Instead, the Groan, for instance (“Our reporting changes the story” 🙂 ) which is all over any dodgy doom and gloom figures like a rash is totally silent on the corruption of one of the key bases of the fabricated myth.

Of course, this is just one brick in the wall of fabrication. The story starts with the falsification of death data at the very origin, with everything attributed to Covid if possible – despite other clear causation. That’s already a massive exaggeration of the virus’s impact before layering on top more synthetic cases of recovered individuals dying at a later date.

Then – on top of that – you have massive exaggeration about the incidence of the virus now – as it fades away. (Again the CEBM monitoring shows this very clearly).

Of course, to some of us, this is only further evidence of what we knew already – but the confirmation of the corrupted narrative *should* be a major news story,

But it isn’t.

54416 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to RickH, 2, #382 of 1198 🔗

Looking on Twitter Hancock has called for an urgent enquiry into the PHE figures.

54394 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #383 of 1198 🔗


I’m reading a biography of Captain James Cook, that erstwhile explorer who is arguably credited with being the greatest explorer of all time (not bad for a farm labourer’s son from North Yorkshire).

It’s Cook’s second expedition, the year is 1773 and he’s in the Pacific searching for the fabled ‘Southern continent’. He is being introduced to a Tribal chieftain called Otoo in Matavai (Tahitii) and to quote from Richard Hough’s brilliant book;

‘Otoo was sitting on the ground when they found him, surrounded by his family and a number of his subjects, All stark naked, to Cook a new form of obeisance’

With regard to controlling your people there’s nothing new it would seem. In Otoo’s case he used nudity to make his people subservient. Today, they use masks, footprints on the ground and ridiculous and nonsensical social distancing to achieve the same ends and of course the hyped up fear of the Flu. I don’t think the British public would fall for enforced nudity–not the climate for it!) –but you do wonder just how far they will go to ridicule themselves when ordered to do so.
A friend of mine said last week that if Johnson said that walking backwards helped protect against the ‘virus’ there would be those who would do it. The first one to witness this wins a coconut!

54436 ▶▶ John P, replying to Harry hopkins, #384 of 1198 🔗

“In Otoo’s case he used nudity to make his people subservient.”

Are you sure about that? It’s tropical in some parts of the world, but it’s a bit too chilly to “go naked” around here for most of the time.

54489 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to John P, 1, #385 of 1198 🔗

You’d best take that up with Richard Hough. He’s a world renowned historian, I just live in Yorkshire and I’ve never been to the Tropics.

54491 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #386 of 1198 🔗

I’m not really interested. I’m just pointing out that the presence or absence of clothing is not usually an indication of oppression.

As for Mr Hough’s status. I’ve never heard of him.

Neil Ferguson is “renowned” too. I don’t have much time for his opinions either.

54506 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to John P, #387 of 1198 🔗

Concentration camps? Abu Ghraib?

54508 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bugle, -1, #388 of 1198 🔗

For God, sake do you people never rest?


Obviously in prison camps the situation is entirely different to this.

54549 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to John P, -1, #389 of 1198 🔗

The situation that the original poster was referring to was naked Pacific Islanders.

There are many plausible reasons why they may have been naked.

Oppression is not one of them.

Let’s look at some of these:

1) It’s fucking hot.
2) Amazon may not have been able to deliver in the 18th century.

54544 ▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #390 of 1198 🔗

Brilliant tactic Harry, you could get a job in a government think tank.

From October we all have to walk around naked thus ensuring we all catch flu and guarantee the famed second wave. Not only that but the increased incidence of sudden unexplained vomiting, certainly by anyone walking past me, will add to the many symptoms of covid and be classed as a ‘case’ to rapidly inflate the numbers and therefore ensure the UK government meets the bbc’s target figure!!

54406 Bella, replying to Bella, 12, #391 of 1198 🔗

I seem to have been reading a lot lately about a second Lockdown rumoured. (It’s in a post here today by DRW I believe.) On a London Calling podcast some time ago James Dellingpole said he was informed that another Lockdown was forecast for October by an ‘insider’ close to government (if I recall correctly.) So, hang on, if the virus is on the wane – which clearly it is – why are people talking about another Lockdown? If this is being mooted then it has been prepared already which clearly signals something more contrived and sinister. I have, on this site, been a proponent of the ‘soft’ conspiracy theory (totalitarian tendencies emboldened by unpredicted health crisis ) because, even for me, it is a stretch to go down the full Icke-ian road, but if an other Lockdown is on the cards what does that say? And every day now I read something in relation to that and October, as if we are being primed. Can someone put me out of my misery? I was convinced we here on LS were getting the upper hand, and people were starting to see this for what it is – mostly pure bulshit. But is it something more?

54420 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella, 5, #392 of 1198 🔗

We’re still in the first lockdown, nothing much has really changed.

54493 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, 3, #393 of 1198 🔗

That’s my view too.

54515 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to JohnB, 3, #394 of 1198 🔗

We’re still in the first lockdown, nothing much has really changed

Compulsory masks in shops = nothing has changed.

Sorry I must be missing something.

54421 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Bella, 7, #395 of 1198 🔗

I also do wonder. The guy at my local village shop (which is also a pub) said the same thing about a week ago, he reckoned there was going to be another lockdown. I think the clever folk amongst us need to keep their ears to the ground….as we all should of course….and see if they can suss it out. October may also coincide with an expected financial crapstorm….as we already know.

54432 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #396 of 1198 🔗

Agree completely with your last point. I think a lockdown would be part of that – to prevent bank runs and rioting – think Northern Rock on steroids.

The key takeaway from Carl Heneghan’s second piece yesterday – on the ‘non recovery’ stats – means that there will be a continuation of a ‘high’ death rate. With the flu season about to start, that will be the ‘science’ justifying the second lockdown.

54425 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bella, 9, #397 of 1198 🔗

” I was convinced we here on LS were getting the upper hand, and people were starting to see this for what it is – mostly pure bulshit. But is it something more?”

I thought we were too Bella but then they brought in mandatory face masks so it feels like this is due to continue for a lot longer. I really don’t want to buy into the conspiracy theories but if you look at event 201 and agenda 2030 and the Bill Gates foundation and all the links between the scientific advisors and politicians in power then you do start to wonder.

However once the furlough money stops which it has to then people will suddenly realise that normal life is not there and hopefully do something about it.

As humans we are naturally social creatures so at some point the tide will turn against these measures.

54439 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to ambwozere, 11, #398 of 1198 🔗

If there is something planned along the lines of event 201 and agenda 2030 we need to start an uprising bloody quickly don’t we? Nip this in the bud so to speak? How the hell do I convince the 80% ex-friends on social media that they have been had? It’s scary but I’m up for the fight. I may be too old to man the barricades but I’ll load the muskets.

54449 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella, 9, #399 of 1198 🔗

The Covid deaths fraud is in the news right now, but the sheep still won’t see it. The other day, Deathcock said masks won’t be needed in workplaces, because you are spending more time closer to people. What?? Can they not see that is just crap?

55135 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #400 of 1198 🔗

Unfortunately the sheeple can’t. Some still think Bloris is doing a good job!

54467 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bella, 5, #401 of 1198 🔗

I don’t know, the majority of the people on my Facebook have all been brainwashed very effectively, some seem to flit between the two positions and a very small minority 6 I can think of know this is all a scam.

We just have to keep chipping away at people possibly away from social media as people will often believe one thing but will follow the crowd on social media cos they frightened of the reaction if they don’t.

55106 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to ambwozere, 1, #402 of 1198 🔗

Why do people fear not being part of the crowd? I have always enjoyed it!

54559 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ambwozere, 3, #403 of 1198 🔗

I posted this yesterday but quite late, so don’t know how many people saw it:


Don’t know how many of you might have already watched it, as it has been up for a week… It was new to me anyway, even though I knew about event 201.

Description of the video (from underneath it): Major documentary confirmation of something many of us have come to know for certain in recent times: the entire COVID-19 world-shutdown is part of a live training and simulation exercise run by the unscrupulous WHO and United Nations, as documented in their Global Preparedness Monitoring Board’s annual 2019 report and their International Health Regulations treaty of 2005—which 194/or 196 countries signed off on —which pretty much establishes a Global Government (of the WHO & United Nations, & the high-level international GMPB) along with their sponsors, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Wellcome Trust, & other unnamed donors.

I had seen the little extract with Mike Pompeo that appears approx 6 mins 50 secs into this, where they let slip that this is a ‘live exercise’, but did not realise that all the information about this is actually on the WHO’s website!

If it is all true, that this is a ‘live simulation exercise’, then it would explain the chaotic handling of it and why at times the government (and others) seem to be saying stuff that it looks like they do not really believe, and why UK column talk of a ‘coup’ having taken place…

What I would like to find out, is exactly who in the UK signed off on this – according to the film, the 196 countries signed up for it in 2005 , as stated above and in the video itself.

54429 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella, 11, #404 of 1198 🔗

So, just when the shit is due to hit the fan financially/unemployment wise, there will be a handy lockdown to prevent any riots or dissent. Fancy that.

54435 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #405 of 1198 🔗

Agree – just posted more or less the same at the same time!

54443 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #406 of 1198 🔗

Of course, if we call our selves Masked Lives Matter, we will be able to loot and riot freely. So that’s ok then.

54452 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bella, 4, #407 of 1198 🔗

I’m living my life under the assumption that there will be a 2nd Lockdown in October. I posted this earlier, but based on this article, the Welsh govt is assuming this too.


BBC keeps harping about a second wave constantly too. Today, they dredged up an article from June explaining what the second wave is.

54455 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bella, 4, #408 of 1198 🔗

Lockdown is the policy, they just need to find the correct reason for it. October will see the flu season kick in, which will mean a lot of covinflunza deaths that will terrify the public.

54459 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #409 of 1198 🔗

And from then on, forever, if you get a cold or flu you will die. Die, die, die!

54468 ▶▶ James007, replying to Bella, 12, #410 of 1198 🔗

Weirdly, it may be the first lockdown that makes the second more likely.

Firstly the bar for shutting down society has been set remarkably low. The idea of using estimated infection growth rates (r) to determine whether to resume was always odd. When you end a lock down, infections will obviously rise as life gets back to normal! That’s not a problem if most cases are mild, people develop immunity and you have the resources to deal with the more severe cases.
Secondly, if we had not had the first lockdown- many of us would have had and recovered form the virus. Perhaps we would be less likely to get it later on the year.

54527 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to James007, 5, #411 of 1198 🔗

If you start spouting sense like that you will be ‘cancelled’.

54478 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 5, #412 of 1198 🔗

The goverment lurches from one nonsense decision to another, so God knows.

But I do think they’ll not want to wreck the economy AGAIN, because they will eventually want to be re-elected and it’ll be hard enough to rebuild even without a second national prolonged lockdown.

I think they are fine now with the odd local lockdown, masks, and the myriad other crap like distancing, keeping all the emergency powers in place, keep the fear levels up but try to get people working again.

Which is a lockdown by another name, and almost as shit. Worse actually, because people will start to believe it’s normal and just get used to it.

54611 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Julian, 7, #413 of 1198 🔗

I’m not OK with masks, and will never wear one.
Civil disobedience starts next Friday.

54501 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Bella, 5, #414 of 1198 🔗

We’re being played and they’re keeping their options open.

54539 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Bella, 3, #415 of 1198 🔗

They’re still going by the ICL model which predicted waves and on off suppression measures over 18 months.

54653 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bella, 5, #416 of 1198 🔗

One of my last comments yesterday was from blog warning about a shitstorm come October (not looked back to see how it was received there as it’s old comments, just moving forward).

October is just before the US elections on Nov 03rd and October being mentioned too many places for my liking.

More of those strange coincidences.

54942 ▶▶ chris c, replying to Bella, 1, #417 of 1198 🔗

I think it was Chris Whitty, but my memory these days is pretty fucked

54428 Cecil B, 3, #418 of 1198 🔗

It’s like the police asking a financial fraudster to go back over their figures and come up with a figure more to their liking

54437 Alec in France, 6, #419 of 1198 🔗

Purely coincidentally (of course), France is imposing compulsory masks in all “enclosed public spaces” from 20 July.

Tant pis – it’s back to online and a (more distant) click&collect hypermarket with external service.

I feel very sorry for the small local shops who will be missing our trade.

54441 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #420 of 1198 🔗

The cat is out of the bag Hancock wants an inquiry into PHE fiddling the Covid death figures.

54456 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #421 of 1198 🔗

The only true outcome can be that deaths have been grossly exagerated. And that’s not going to happen is it? So, expect to hear “lessons to be learned” or some such waffle.

54540 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #422 of 1198 🔗

It only involves people who had Covid, recovered and then died of something else. These are the deaths Carl Heneghan and his colleague raised as an issue. It’s hard to know how many of these there would be. However, they really need to look into Covid deaths more generally, especially the dying with/from question. I suspect the investigation Hancock has ordered will be narrow.

54458 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #423 of 1198 🔗

Okay 1st question: Why didn’t the government’s Health Secretary pick up on this earlier?

54469 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #424 of 1198 🔗

I don’t believe he didn’t know it was going on. Apparently those who were tested in hospital and then again in care homes were counted twice.

54503 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #425 of 1198 🔗

Because he’s not very bright ?

54461 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #426 of 1198 🔗

It’s a kick into the long grass, which will be aided by a non-investigative MSM shorn of real journalists – as well as a ‘Weren’t me, guv’ exercise.

54442 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 2, #427 of 1198 🔗

This is a fabulous video and demonstrates the correct perspective on this COVID hysteria and how not to be fooled. Worth watching the whole thing.


54518 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to flyingjohn, 1, #428 of 1198 🔗

He makes some very good arguments but then spoils it somewhat by making a basic maths error. 0.26% is about 1/400 not 1/4000.

54445 Koala, replying to Koala, 2, #429 of 1198 🔗

I wrote to my local shop about the mask issue. See below:

“Firstly thank you for running a great local shop and doing your best to keep things in stock during lockdown!

I noticed you posted about the new mask requirements on Facebook.

There is a list of exemptions, section 5 on the gov.uk site:

How is this going to be handled by staff? Are customers with a reason not to wear a mask going to be welcome? What is your policy?

I am keen to see that this doesn’t become a divisive issue in a small community, particularly given we could be going into a harsh economic downturn which will bring its added stresses.”

Their reply:

“The guidance I have received from the Government and Trade Bodies advises that Staff are not responsible for enforcing this law, the Police are. I think it is highly unlikely that the Police will be venturing to the area on this matter. As with all that has happened during lockdown I am certain the overwhelming majority will abide by the rules, there will be those who for good reason cannot wear a face covering and tiny minority who will refuse to wear one. We will finalise our policy tomorrow but I think I will be asking my Staff not to confront or make judgements on those without face coverings.
I hope that answers your concerns.”

55141 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Koala, #430 of 1198 🔗

Good for them!

54453 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 6, #431 of 1198 🔗

It is very unfortunate that the uk government’s recent policies make more sense when seen as a vassal state of the US, rather than trying to figure out how they benefit the British people.

Boris’ sudden u-turn on the herd immunity strategy looks like he was tapped on the shoulder to get back into line (and his most senior medical advisors Valance and Whitty are both closely linked to Gates-funded organizations and their global vaccine goals).

Even Hancock’s announced review of the PHE seems rather close in time to Trump bypassing the CDC in the U.S?

54457 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Humanity First, 2, #432 of 1198 🔗

uk government’s recent policies make more sense when seen as a vassal state of the US”

That’s been blindingly obvious for some considerable time.

54498 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to RickH, 2, #433 of 1198 🔗

It was Macron who threatened to close the border if Boris didn’t lock down. He’s French.

54460 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Humanity First, #434 of 1198 🔗

The song: ‘Anything You Can Do I can do better’ comes to mind.

54475 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, #435 of 1198 🔗

Good name Humanity First!

54470 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 8, #436 of 1198 🔗

No one but Sweden did a cost benefit analysis.
They all panicked in light of popular opinion and fear shaped by an entirely made up and exaggerated forecast, and a Bush admin paper they got 1 day before the decisive meetings, which was based upon a high school field trial made by a 14 year old child.
No wonder they all have to double and triple down on their mistakes currently.

54474 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #437 of 1198 🔗

A few other countries didn’t have much of a lockdown – it would be interesting to know how they arrived at those decisions.

54517 ▶▶▶ Old Bill, replying to Julian, 3, #438 of 1198 🔗

it would be interesting to know how they arrived at those decisions.

Common sense springs to mind.

54505 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #439 of 1198 🔗

For anyone who’s interested, here are today’s (very encouraging) hospital stats from Sweden. The figures are published twice weekly, on Tuesdays and Fridays, so what follows are the improvements over a mere *three* days 🙂

Number of patients in hospital with CV19 – 358, which is a *drop* of 111 in just 3 days..
Of these, 67 are in intensive care, a *drop* of 24

No region has admitted any new patients with CV19 since Tuesday!

13 of Sweden’s 21 regions have 10 or fewer patients in hospital with the virus , and 8 of these regions actually have 5 or fewer patients in hospital with it.

I should remind you that about 4-5 weeks ago there were *400* patients in intensive care here…

54473 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 22, #440 of 1198 🔗

As if we didn’t need any further proof that Boris has lost his mind, he has just said at the conference (gabbled, actually) that we will be more or less back to ‘normal’ by November, but at the same time, local authorities will have new powers to impose martial law if cases rise in their areas. Former trying to encourage people back to work, using public transport etc, while latter, simultaneously promoting more fear and stay at home. Can he be sectioned?

54485 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #441 of 1198 🔗

I think we may need a James Bond character to come along for a quick assaination.

55144 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ambwozere, #442 of 1198 🔗

They should start with Uncle Bill.

54488 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #443 of 1198 🔗

Well, in favour of sectioning him would be to keep him away from power. Against would be that it would exempt him from criminal culpability in the coverup.

54490 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 6, #444 of 1198 🔗

At this point I just want him, and his band of schoolboys out of the way before they inflict any further damage.

54520 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #445 of 1198 🔗

I’ll second the sectioning.

Wait, were you using it in the surgical or the psychiatric sense? On second thoughts, never mind, I’ll second it either way.

54837 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #446 of 1198 🔗

Impose Martial Law on Boris and his cabinet. Now.

54477 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 22, #447 of 1198 🔗

When the Government took the decision to lock down the country, it was flying blind.

I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised, but I have to confess to a moment of shock when I read that.

I was surprised when I read that. Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, admitted this at the Coronavirus Daily Update on 10 April 2020. I have repeatedly pointed this out on this website and even provided a link to the press briefing. The fact that the government introduced the lockdown without considering even how many people would die as a result of its measures is a scandal; but it is a scandal that most people have passed over in silence, which is even worse.

Yesterday (July 16) Matt Hancock made a Statement to the House of Commons. It was seriously depressing. In that statement he asserted that “We’ve got the virus on the run”. It was obvious that Hancock is living a fantasy. A fantasy in which he is heroically waging war against a deadly enemy. And this is why the government could introduce the lockdown without any thought as to the costs: when you are fighting a war against a deadly enemy, you to not worry about the rights and liberties you have to violate or the harm you inflict in the economy or the sacrifices you demand from the people: all you focus on is destroying the enemy, whatever the cost.

This is a case of collective madness: the specific form of the delusion is the idea that the virus is a deadly foe and they are waging a heroic war to save humanity.

54483 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Steve Hayes, 9, #448 of 1198 🔗

They really don’t live in the real world. It’s like the wonderous slogan of Control the virus. Well for a start it’s so small you can’t find it and then once you’ve found it do you bash it over the head with a saucepan?

And in case non of these idiots had noticed people will always die whatever you do. That’s part of the life cycle.

54504 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to ambwozere, 11, #449 of 1198 🔗

I wish I could wake up tomorrow morning and realise this has been a nightmare. When I spend a couple of minutes quietly thinking about what this deranged government has done, it is very difficult to believe it. All prior cock-ups of the past, seem insignificant.

54509 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Steve Hayes, 1, #450 of 1198 🔗

Collective madness has been deliberately induced – what the role of Boris/Cummings is, I can’t make out. Whether they are part of doing it deliberately, or useful fools, I don’t know. Given that Sir Graham Brady is chair of the 1922 committee, it looks perhaps as if the Conservative Party has been gobbled up by the same malign agenda that runs Climate Change and Lcokdown.

54842 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Steve Hayes, #451 of 1198 🔗

Our new Super Heroes. Great material for endless, witty, scathing satire.

54497 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #452 of 1198 🔗

Ireland, Luxembourg, Switzerland et al.: more testing, more cases and/but the number of new cases matching the rate of false positives even if the virus had been completely eradicated.
This is likely the real reason for those test drives: they found a perfect tool to scare the herd and lock us in for good.

I just don’t understand why, none of the conspiracy theories make any sense to me.
GloboCap, Finance etc. is toast if all debts are cancelled, big pharma sees winners and losers (oncology) here, and so on.

My hope is that they have just screwed this up completely and want to cover it up by doubling down.

My hunch now is that something else and very big is the true reason for all this: e.g. they know an asteroid will hit us soon and are currently building arches for a few thousand or so, like in Deep Impact.
Only something like this (other suggestions?) might explain the initial smirks of Merkel, vdL and Johnson when talking about 70% getting infected, the still mysterious suicide of the highly respected and integral Finance Minister of Hesse early on, or why after a talk with PM Laschet, meat baron Mr. Toennies refused to have his allegedly infected workers tested again at a group of sceptical doctors expense, to establish whether the test is so flawed that it gives a positive for coronaviruses in cattle, although that would have advanced science either way, and could have whitewashed him rather than continuing to be the most hated man in Germany currently.

Anything else just doesn’t make sense anymore.

54625 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #453 of 1198 🔗

An alien takeover works for me.

54656 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 2, #454 of 1198 🔗

Makes just as much sense as anything else that is going on at the moment and might actually make the news entertaining for once.

54844 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jay Berger, #455 of 1198 🔗

Building a new bunker under the Thames.

54500 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 16, #456 of 1198 🔗

Husband, who agrees completely with us all on here, but who is not as close to what is going on has just made two points about the conference:

Boris is worse than he has ever heard him – gabbling, incoherent, no strategy

Dido Harding (there as his comfort blanket) has just given the game away on antibody testing – they don’t want us to know whether we have antibodies because people will just ignore lockdown measures if they think they are immune

We need to keep the show on the road to fulfil our promises to the vaccine/Big Pharma bandwagon. Rolling local lockdowns, amounting to national lockdown through the back door (as per the Foot & Mouth strategy). Total collapse of the economy on the cards for the autumn I fear!

54514 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #457 of 1198 🔗

Thanks for the report on Boris. All you say and more, I fear.

54607 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #458 of 1198 🔗

Total collapse of the economy on the cards for the autumn I fear!’

Yep, the petty new rules, muzzles, the vacuous announcements, the latest covid ‘data’ – all just froth and spume overlaying an ocean tide as it moves inexorably towards its grim denouement.

Heard some hilarious stories of furlough fiddling from a builder friend yesterday though.

54502 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 5, #459 of 1198 🔗

Various comments below note the common themes between Climate Change and Covid-19 . The medical report that ‘Sue Denim’ discusses above from the Academy of Medical Sciences was funded by a core grant from the Department for Business, Energy
and Industrial Strategy (BEIS)
Here’s the link to the report itself https://acmedsci.ac.uk/file-download/51353957
Compare to the failed predictions of Climate Change, read https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2020/07/17/help-a-short-history-of-climate-alarmism/ The failed predictions of Climate Change, the total absence of genuine science within the greenhouse theories – and yet the Juggernaut continues relentlessly. Here’s the link that shows that there is zero science in Climate Change https://www.beautyandthebeastlytruth.com/
I don’t know how – but somehow the fact that covid and climate are both political agendas and not science needs to become common knowledge. Perhaps Sir Graham Brady’s constituent might write back to him and point it out. It’s the misuse of science in both cases, and to judge by the report, by the same characters as well. Patrick Vallance, certainly.

54548 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Rosie, 1, #460 of 1198 🔗

Thanks Rosie. Good to know wiser people than me are into them too.

54626 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Rosie, 3, #461 of 1198 🔗

To be fair, climate change has only managed to scalp us for around £50B. Not that that’s pennies and to be laughed at.

Covid though – orders of magnitude.

Both are based on bad signal to noise with the source data. And the tail wagging the dog by using studies of this data as if it is fit for purpose.

54847 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to mhcp, #462 of 1198 🔗

Bad signal to noise, with lots of dithering.

54510 Mark, replying to Mark, 21, #463 of 1198 🔗

BREAKING Boris Johnson gives councils lightning lockdown powers to stop local covid outbreaks
Lovely, so a supposedly “Conservative” Prime Minister thinks it’s a great idea to give the petty authoritarian busybodies and woke-ists in local authorities the power to “close whole sectors, impose ‘stay at home’ orders and prevent people arriving or leaving areas”.

Every time you think this government and this PM have plumbed the depths to the very bottom, they manage to sink even lower.

54519 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Mark, 3, #464 of 1198 🔗

Not quite sure how this is supposed to work given most local authorities are broke as central government won’t give them any money.

54522 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ambwozere, #465 of 1198 🔗

I suspect they will find another Magic Money Tree.

Unless Sunak has harvested all of them.

54526 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to ambwozere, 2, #466 of 1198 🔗

They’ll be given a specific budget to do so – that’s how all these things work. For example, when the police were stopping sunbathers and not chasing thieves, that’s because they were given money to do the parks but not the theft.

54532 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to ambwozere, 2, #467 of 1198 🔗

Forgot to include the link, to the Mirror report per MSN:


Well they don’t need money just to bully people, and presumably there will be juicy “emergency funds” available from the central government magic money tree to encourage them to fantasize up a “covid surge” and declare an emergency

54528 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark, 4, #468 of 1198 🔗

Our council could not be trusted with such powers. Quite straight forwardly they neither have the competence nor the interest in the lives of the people. They are also weak to influence from above.

Councils made responsible for decimating their own locations. Lockdown/don’t lockdown its not the governments fault.

Politics in the midst of the black death of doom 2020.

54530 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 9, #469 of 1198 🔗

A bit like enlisting the public to shame others into wearing masks, all part of getting others to do their dirty work.

Am plotting my escape routes across the fields, hope the police round here don’t have enough drones to catch us all

54579 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to Julian, 7, #470 of 1198 🔗

“A bit like enlisting the public to shame others into wearing masks, all part of getting others to do their dirty work.”
Yes, it’s called ‘nudging’ and it’s run by the Behavioural Insights team. It’s global and it’s part of how the same things get implemented simultaneously everywhere.

https://www.bi.team/about-us/&nbsp ;
About us | The Behavioural Insights Team
The Team has grown from a seven-person unit at the heart of the UK government to a global social purpose company with offices around the world. Our work spanned 31 countries in the last year alone. Our mission remains the same. We generate and apply behavioural insights to inform policy, improve public services and deliver results for citizens …
http://www.bi.team&nbsp ;

54592 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Mark, 2, #471 of 1198 🔗

My local council couldn’t organise a stag night

54623 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #472 of 1198 🔗

If they are anything like mine, it doesn’t seem to stop them from harassing and bullying people quite effectively.

55115 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Mark, #474 of 1198 🔗

Simply the worst government in my lifetime.

54516 ambwozere, 1, #475 of 1198 🔗

If anyone is in Sheffield or that area there seems to be an event tomorrow 18th July Peace Gardens. If anyone is interested.


54521 Rosie, replying to Rosie, 2, #476 of 1198 🔗

Do read this. Drawing a comparison between the media cover up of Stalin’s atrocities and today’s media cover up of what’s going on in terms of Lcokdown destruction and loss of freedom of speech.

54537 ▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, -3, #477 of 1198 🔗

No, thank you. Stalin’s atrocities have never been covered up.

Sounds like another excuse for Russophobia.

54542 ▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 5, #478 of 1198 🔗

The atrocities are still not taught to children in school. They know about the Nazis (who are labelled right wing) but not about Stalin. This article details the coverup and since you refuse to read it you will continue in your ignorance.

54570 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Rosie, 2, #479 of 1198 🔗

I was never taught about Nazis in school. In Middle and High School, the history we did was about Romans, Vikings, Spanish Amards, the Normans and then up Queen Victoria, then Social and Economic History. at no point was anything ever covered WW2 and the Holocoaust, and definitely nothing about Russia.

The only thing we ever did on WW1 was in English lessons because of Sassoon’s and Owen’s poetry, and we once watched “Oh what a lovely war”.

Apart from that, this was all that was ever covered, and from what my kids tell me they cover at school now it’s far less than what I was taught.

54588 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to JohnB, 1, #480 of 1198 🔗

She isn’t talking about the Nazis.

The one good think that Stalin did was mobilise Russians against the Nazis.

It is well documented that twenty million Russians died in World War Two fighting Hitler and the war was won on the Eastern front in Russia.

That would have to be taught as well as Stalin’s crimes against humanity.

54595 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 2, #481 of 1198 🔗

Please provide with me with some reports from the time of Stalin’s atrocities. When you talk about “Russiophobia” it becomes difficult to take what you say seriously. But I’m ready to be convinced that the article I refer to is inaccurate and that what you say is correct. I can say that it has been impossible NOT to know about the Nazi’s extermination camps, but personally I’ve heard very little about Stalin’s murderous regime. It came as a big surprise to me, not many years ago, that he had murdered far more.

54605 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, 1, #482 of 1198 🔗

I am not interested.

Can I make that clear to you, madam.

I have never disputed that Stalin was a monster.

However, especially in the United States, there is a media campaign being waged against Russia. It is also here in this country.

Here is something made in the UK which documents the sacrifices made by Russians in world war two. They were made for British television in 1973 as part of a series called “The World at War”.

Episode 11 “Red Star” is a more general discussion and features interviews with a number of people. Episode 9 “Stalingrad” unfortunately does not, perhaps as the series was made during the cold war.

Episode 11 is quite moving in places and opens with the words:

“No country, no people suffered so terribly in the war as the Soviet Union. Nowhere else are the memories of war so alive today [1973] and so profound. The German invasion brought about a catastrophe which it seemed at first no nation could survive. In the siege of Leningrad [St Petersburg] alone which lasted for over two years more human beings died than the total war dead of Britain and the United States combined. Yet it was here that Hitler was broken. The Russian people faced the possibility that they might perish and overcame it.”


Narrated by Sir Laurence Olivier.

54638 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 1, #483 of 1198 🔗

I do not understand why you feel the need to be aggressive. There is clearly here ample material for reasoned debate. My thanks to the others here who have contributed, and you as well John Pretty, although this discussion would have been a lot more informative had you not conflated Stalin with the whole of the Russian people, then and now.
One of my friends, and me as well, is very concerned about the clear anti-Russia agenda and I would like to be clearer about where the truth lies. Unfortunately your aggressive attitude adds to the confusion.

54854 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Rosie, #484 of 1198 🔗

Is he a Russian bot?

54612 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Rosie, 2, #485 of 1198 🔗

John Pretty’s an argumentative bugger (I say this on the basis of “it takes one to know one”), but he’s correct to be on the alert for Russophobia – we have in this country been subjected to a systematic campaign of anti-Russian propaganda for a number of years now, to do with various issues, but especially the geopolitical rivalry between the US and Russia. The US hates any country that does not submit, and our (governmental, at least) elites are pretty much firmly on the US side.

But in this case his justifiable hair trigger on the issue seems to have discharged negligently – the coverup of Stalin’s misdeeds that you referred to in the link you supplied was a leftist versus anticommunist issue, not a modern Russophobia issue, and it was raised not to pursue the modern anti-Russian campaign but rather the desperately important anti-“woke” issue..

54613 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Mark, #486 of 1198 🔗

He certainly is. And he makes no apology about that.

I am entitled to my opinion. You are entitled to yours.

54619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to John P, 2, #487 of 1198 🔗

I did not suggest you should apologise, as should have been clear from the fact that I tarred myself with the very same brush.

54624 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mark, #488 of 1198 🔗

Yes, one could also include the current ‘certainty’ about hacking of virus studies. Personally, I find it at least as likely that it was the Chinese state, deliberately planting Russia-related ‘clues’!

54640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, 3, #489 of 1198 🔗

I find it most likely that it is made-up bollocks, trying to convince people the ‘vaccine’ is worth stealing. Ho ho.

54657 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Rosie, #490 of 1198 🔗

Yes, but how well read are you in general? I remember reading Conquest’s ‘The Great Terror ‘ back in the 1970s.

55124 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Rosie, #491 of 1198 🔗

There is an inbuilt bias in favour of communism against fascism (not that I would wish to support the latter!) Who would be allowed to say on TV ‘I am literally a fascist’? Che teashirts are popular among the young…..not seen too many Adolf teashirts. This is partly why communism is so popular among many youngsters….they think the only problem is that it has not been tried properly!

54639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to John P, #492 of 1198 🔗

Eh? Rosie said “ The atrocities are still not taught to children in school. They know about the Nazis (who are labelled right wing) but not about Stalin.” 

54582 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, #493 of 1198 🔗

This is not Russia. I live in the United Kingdom. I want our children to be taught British history first and foremost.

Stalin’s atrocities have never been covered up. My late grandfather who was born in 1912 had a copy of the Gulag Archipelago which was published here many years ago.

Your link is pure Russophobia. I am not interested.

And PS: Stalin was Georgian.

54598 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to John P, 12, #494 of 1198 🔗

The link, if you took time to read it, is far from Russophobia but an analysis of media lies and distortion of truth that can cover up facts and is comparable to the present situation:

In these months, the pattern at the Times has been the same:

  • Attribute terrible economic fallout not to the lockdowns but to the virus;
  • Attribute virus fallout to the failure to lockdown enough;
  • Deliberately confuse readers about the difference between tests, cases, and deaths;
  • Never focus on the incredibly obvious demographics of C19 death: average age 82 with underlying conditions;
  • Ignore completely the primary victims of lockdowns: especially small businesses, the poor and minority groups, marginalized communities, artists, immigrant communities, small towns, small theaters, and so on.
  • Do not publish anything that speaks of the path that all civilized countries prior dealt with new viruses: the vulnerable protect themselves while everyone else gets exposed with resulting immunity (Sweden did as well as any country because it refused to violate human rights);
  • Dismiss any alternative to lockdown as crazy, unscientific, and cruel, while acting as if Fauci speaks for the whole of the scientific community;
  • Above all, promote panic over calm.

It is in this sense that the news reporting and editorial policies of the New York Time s today remind me of 1932 and the way in which journalism is being used to push out dogma over truth, selective facts over full and balanced coverage, ideology over tolerance, propaganda over diversity of opinion, and an aggressive political agenda over humane and careful journalism. It seems out of control at this point.

54620 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Sarigan, 3, #495 of 1198 🔗

Note also that exactly the same approach characterises almost the whole of the British media, including of course BBC and Sky!

54715 ▶▶▶▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to John P, #496 of 1198 🔗

Yes, born in Gori and where I had the pleasure of visiting a few years back.

54597 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Rosie, -6, #497 of 1198 🔗

And PS: I will read what I bloody well want.

Not what you or anyone else tells me to read.

54599 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rosie, replying to John P, 1, #498 of 1198 🔗

The article details who it was who reported on what happened. So how do you know it’s “pure Russiaphobia” without looking at it? As I say below, I’m ready to be convinced that you are right in what you say.

54523 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 16, #499 of 1198 🔗

I see Handjob has had ordered an urgent review into the PHE death figures after Professor Heneghan went public with his concerns. Professor Heneghan has been one of the few sane scientific voices in this entire farce and I have little doubt that he will be proved correct about PHEs utter incompetence .

54531 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to Hammer Onats, #500 of 1198 🔗

Please provide some links, thanks

54536 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Rosie, 4, #501 of 1198 🔗

The Oxford CEBM site is at :


Their data has been a rock of sanity in this whole Panic myth.

54541 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Rosie, 3, #502 of 1198 🔗

The “urgent review” was reported by the BBC:

Hancock calls for urgent review into coronavirus death data in England

54556 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 6, #503 of 1198 🔗

It is an interesting insight into our Meeja that, although the story was running yesterday evening – the sort of story that a decent journalist would have been on top of immediately – it was only Handcock ‘coming out’ that got reported.

54560 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 8, #504 of 1198 🔗

I suspect that for most in our mainstream media, coming out with anything close to real investigative journalism that goes against the coronapanic line, even just reporting information that hasn’t yet been officially sanctioned, is both personally distressing and close to career and social suicide.

54571 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 1, #505 of 1198 🔗

If it isn’t a story that they can copy and paste at least five tweets into it these days to pad it out, the modern day journalist doesn’t know what to do!

54616 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Mark, 1, #506 of 1198 🔗

How right you are. The BBC are still not reporting the Gupta herd immunity paper.

54645 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Invunche, replying to Will, 1, #507 of 1198 🔗

Yeah. Gupta is a hack nut job as far as the beeb are concerned.

If you want rock solid science you need to go to Neil Ferguson and his team at Imperial College London.

54851 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Hammer Onats, #508 of 1198 🔗

There are many sane scientific voices (who actually know what science means), but they are completely ignored so Joe Public never hears about them and their perspectives.

54529 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 13, #509 of 1198 🔗

With this cockup in the calculation of daily coronavirus death figures. Why is no one calling for the heads to roll of the people who made this decision to calculate deaths this way?

With all these experts in PHE and SAGE, they must’ve known this flaw in the figures Also, as it is blatantly obvious, so surely all these people should now be removed for incompetence? Their credibility has now been totally lost, they have been beyond scrutiny since this start of this lockdown, and looking at this the appear to be all “yes men/women” who instead of whistleblowing have covered this up.

This is the problem when data or the science as they keep telling us is kept secret from the public, no one is allowed to scrutinise it, and no criticism is allowed. Heads need to roll and SAGE needs to be disbanded.

54533 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 3, #510 of 1198 🔗

“Cock Up”????

Errr …. in the same sense as the disappearing WMDs? – The VMD?

54534 ▶▶ Rosie, replying to JohnB, 4, #511 of 1198 🔗

The reason that heads haven’t as yet rolled is because of the extraordinary power they have built up via the Climate Change Agenda and the networks of power. That’s why the department of energy (those who have been telling us that wind turbines can power the economy) funded the medical report Sue Denim describes. See my comments of about 10 minutes ago.

54535 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #512 of 1198 🔗

Only bit I disagree with is disbanding SAGE. That would make no difference the system is in place regardless if its SAGE or Mr Bob Zoot from mars giving advice. They are going to be guven the advice they choose to be given. Independent SAGE is no better.

Everything else you say I agree with. There is not the faux emergency now to prevent accountability.

54552 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 16, #513 of 1198 🔗

This anomaly in the classification has been know about since the 1st April with the death of Chloe Middleton. Who died of a heart attack yet her death was classified as COVID-19 because a family member said she had a cough.

At the time the Guardian reported: “An NHS source tells the Guardian that ‘the coroner’s move “raised eyebrows” at the hospital because [Middleton] had not tested positive for the disease’.”

We are now nearly 4 months on from when this was discovered, and it seems no one investigated these anomalies in the classification of COVID-19 deaths.

54558 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to JohnB, 3, #514 of 1198 🔗

The guardian today trying to claim the ONS figures they’ve been using to justify their hysteria aren’t subject to the same ‘anomaly’ as the PHE figures cos its counting deaths with cv19 on certificate… Is this deliberate ignorance do we think? Too ashamed of their own lack of scrutiny to think ‘are death certificates being recorded acurately’? So just digging into the lie, like the gov have done.

54564 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 2, #515 of 1198 🔗

The ONS figures go by what’s written on the death certificate. So will surely contain the anomaly

54672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to JohnB, 2, #516 of 1198 🔗

I don’t think so. If someone dies in a car crash, or a heart attack, months after having had a positive swab for CV 19, and recovered, it won’t be on their death cert. The problem is that PHE are trying to track the incidence of CV19 in all sorts of fancy ways, including number of queries on Google to find out symptoms by geographical area(!), and they’ve made a bish of deciding what data to match to arrive at their figures.

54697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, #517 of 1198 🔗

For what PHE call ‘syndromic surveillance’, including Google searches, see:

54717 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, 1, #518 of 1198 🔗

No, apparently from what’s being reported it does go on the death certificate, as it’s being crossed referenced against it. So even though it’s not the main cause like with dementia, heart attack, COPD, flu, etc, it is still listed on the death certificate.

So if you were run over your death certificate would show, motor vehicle accident/blunt trauma and COVID-19, as the flaw is that you are never recovered from it.

54573 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 7, #519 of 1198 🔗

Anyone with a brain knows that ‘Covid death’ figures are a fiction. That’s why we (with a brain) don’t use them in assessing unusual mortality, and have to look at ‘the ‘all cause’ figures in order to assess what is going on.(Actually – very little except in April)

The Groan got rid of most of its real journalists over a decade ago in order to become an establishment mouth-piece and part of a Ltd. company – so it is quite possible that they haven’t clocked that the source of *any* Covid figures is the same tosh, and that (yawn – repeat) death certificates were *made* unreliable right at the start of this sorry saga.

54576 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 4, #520 of 1198 🔗

All their stories and are just lazy reporting these days, no proper investigative work. They just looks at the trending list on Twitter to see what’s offending people today, find 5 or 6 tweets and copy and paste them, them pad around 500 words around it. Easy peasy!

54574 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to JohnB, 3, #521 of 1198 🔗

Nobody wants to know because to admit this would be to admit they have been fooled. Much easier to continue with the charade.

54610 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to Tom Blackburn, 6, #522 of 1198 🔗

I am hopeful that Johnson might finally avail of this opportunity to throw a dozen people under a bus, claim we have all been fooled and Professors Gupta, Levitt, Geisecke etc were right, all along, we have achieved herd immunity and can get back to normal….. then I woke up.

54907 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Will, #523 of 1198 🔗

Welcome back to the nightmare dream.

54880 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, #524 of 1198 🔗

BBC today (what? I was waiting to watch the press briefing): these numbers aren’t included in the ONS statistics, which only rely on death certificates and the ONS figures still show we have one of the HIGHEST GLOBAL DEATH FIGURES

54646 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to JohnB, 3, #525 of 1198 🔗

They’ve been covered in detail by certain segments of the alternate media (OffGuardian being the main one I’m aware of) and the odd columnist in the MSM (Peter Hitchens). We’ve had doctor’s and scientists talk about this when allowed to publish.We had the admission from Italy about the 88% died with and not from. Non of this derailed the narrative despite them bringing up massive questions.

The government carried on, the MSM, whether in cahoots or instructed by OffCom, carried on. Now, we suddenly need an investigation? This is so that Hancock can say something like “how was I to know this mapractice was occuring, I’m just Secretary of State for Health, Public Health England is who you want to blame.”

I suspect everyone on here who isn’t a paid for and bought 77th know quite simply that we needed a justification for a lockdown and that would only come from high death toll figures. Right now, the government needs to try and look marginally less crap than it does, so it needs a patsy.

Public Health England will now find out that there is no ‘I’ in scapegoat.

54593 ▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnB, 4, #526 of 1198 🔗

I think they have finally realised that total death figure don’t look good in international comparisons. So, “quick, quick everybody how can we massage the previously massaged-up figures so they don’t make as look as supremely incompetent as most people now realise that we are?!”

54603 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, 8, #527 of 1198 🔗

Bojo also sh*tting it finally on the economy as their scaremongering has worked too well and now no one actually wants to leave their house. Time to push PHE and the testing under the bus to try and convince them it wasn’t actually as bad as we told you!

54606 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnB, 4, #528 of 1198 🔗

Hint to Bojo: scrap the BBC into the bargain and you might get at least a smidgin of forgiveness!

54632 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, 2, #529 of 1198 🔗

That can’t come soon enough, but I believe he’ll cave in and it will never happen.

54636 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to JohnB, 1, #530 of 1198 🔗

Which must be further reconciled against the muzzle laws. Bojo is now banking on the impenetrable obfuscation this has caused to prevent the public from holding him to account.

Check out Adam Curtis’ work on nonlinear warfare. If this farce is intentional, I think it sums things up perfectly.

54630 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to IanE, #531 of 1198 🔗

Pretty much, the numbers reflect the day’s political needs. An enquiry into the calculation of those numbers will do the same.

54546 microdave, replying to microdave, 13, #532 of 1198 🔗

I’ve just seen this:

Councils to get powers to shut down businesses and cancel events, says PM


Very worrying – you can bet their first target will be any shops that let non masked customers in.

54554 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to microdave, 6, #533 of 1198 🔗

Very, very worrying. Especially round here, in Pin a Red Rosette on a Donkey land.

54563 ▶▶ John P, replying to microdave, 18, #534 of 1198 🔗

“Where justified by the evidence, ministers will be able to close whole sectors or types of premises in an area, introduce local ‘stay at home’ orders, prevent people entering or leaving defined areas, reduce the maximum size of gatherings beyond national rules, or restrict transport systems serving local areas.”

What a fucking oppressive pig.

54567 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to John P, 7, #535 of 1198 🔗

They do not have enough police officers or cells. I wish he would stop shagging his brains out and run the country instead

54587 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to John P, 4, #536 of 1198 🔗

SS patrols next.

54575 ▶▶ PaulK, replying to microdave, 2, #537 of 1198 🔗

I notice central government can step in if necessary, presumably in response for the Leicester mayor saying the continued lockdown was shameful and political.

54584 ▶▶ IanE, replying to microdave, 4, #538 of 1198 🔗

Yep – BLM event, tick; local cricket match, cross!

55038 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, #539 of 1198 🔗

Maybe the cricketers should also claim that the test is a BLM protest.

54553 microdave, replying to microdave, 4, #540 of 1198 🔗
54902 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to microdave, #541 of 1198 🔗

I would write: “This Is Fascism” on masks.

54568 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 45, #542 of 1198 🔗

Just back from my weekly shopping trip in Edinburgh.

What a thoroughly depressing experience, people almost skipping from their car waving their mask about and then ceremoniously putting it on. Young bloke on the door “have you got a mask”
Can you collect a mask from that table and wear it”
“No, I’m medically exempt”
” Tut, in you go” with added eye role.

Shopping done no further bother.

Stopped for petrol in the supermarket filling station. Went inside to pay. Girl in front of me loudly telling the lady behind the till that she will never wear a mask, it’s stupid. Good for you I thought.

Lady behind till loudly “can you put a mask on, behind you on the table”

Shouting back “no, I’m medically exempt”

“Oh right, people need to be careful about saying that, I had a fella in yesterday said he had breathing difficulties. When I asked his mate he said he was making it up so he didn’t have to wear a mask. Didn’t he know there are genuine disabled people, disgusting”

” Are you accusing me of faking my symptoms, not all disabilities are obvious”

“Oh no, it’s just well you know”


A 1 minute transaction took about 10 minutes.

What is the world coming to, absolute shit hole.

54580 ▶▶ IanE, replying to stefarm, 2, #543 of 1198 🔗

All coming to a town near most of us sassenachs (is that the right term?).

54586 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to IanE, 2, #544 of 1198 🔗

Think so, I’m a sassenach.

P.s I was the only shopper without a mask today

54590 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 8, #545 of 1198 🔗

Thanks Steven accounts like this are really helpful to read. Excellent to hear the lady in front putting her point across too. Many people think likewise – your ten minute interaction is worth it others may hear and be encouraged to fight The Man.

54594 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to stefarm, 10, #546 of 1198 🔗

Just back from a break in England where shopping was reasonably free and easy. Even had meals out in restaurants – no hassle, no masks or visors and, with one exception, no having to leave contact details.Scottish High Street this morning – completely deserted!

On the motorway south Cairn Lodge services had a sign up outside telling you to wear a mask before entering, so even just going to the toilet requires a mask! We ignored the sign. On the way home home Abington had no such requirement and pleased to see that approximately 50% of people going in to the building were unmasked.

A visit to Gretna retail outlet was like a vision out of Hell. Everyone was stopped at entrance for a lecture on the rules that were applying, treating us all like children. Almost everyone walking around was masked – no smiles no social interaction, no pleasure. We were very much the exception but didn’t stay long and didn’t spend any money.

54775 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Guirme, 1, #547 of 1198 🔗

That Gretna place is a thieves’ hellhole at the best of times, but now …. What awful sin would you have to have committed to be sent there?

54932 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 1, #548 of 1198 🔗

You’ve nailed it Annie! Words of truth!

54581 RickH, replying to RickH, 15, #549 of 1198 🔗

You don’t have to fake anything to be medically exempt from wearing a mask.

Everyone can claim to suffer from ‘Hypoxia and Hypercapnia’ if they wear a mask. Both are known medical conditions, and automatically come with mask wearing, and have been established in research.

Continuing the logic :

If you don a mask, you are highly likely to suffer from both. No question. Consequences will vary, but the probability of the effects are almost certain.

However – if you don’t wear a mask:

  1. You would need to (at random) come close to 3,200 people (ONS data – probably nearer 10,000 if updated) in order to meet a Covid infection (not become infected)
  2. Conversely – be as likely as only 1 in 3,200 (or probably 10,000+) to already be infected
  • Even if masks were shown to be effective

Thus – basic risk assessment (and medical propriety) dictates that no mask should be worn in order to avoid inducing Hypoxia and/or Hypercapnia.


54617 ▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 7, #550 of 1198 🔗

Just a correction, prompted by Laura Dodsworth’s excellent piece on the crap grasp of probabilities implied in the Covid narrative.

I wrote ‘1 in 3,200’ as the last ONS estimated infection rate. She is right – it is actually 1 in 3,900 – and falling fast if data on deaths is taken into account.

One thing further strikes me :

It might be excusable for Average Joe/Josephine not to have the mathematical basics. But for those like Handcock, Mr Toad and Wee Krankie to display similar levels of ignorance means either :

They shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the positions they hold – because they are plain stupid.


They shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near the positions they hold because they’re too dishonest.

Whatever. The conclusion is the same.

54637 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to RickH, 2, #551 of 1198 🔗

One can simply self identify as exempt.

54649 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #552 of 1198 🔗

Precisely – I’m just providing a reason that applies to all, so that you don’t even need to tell a Boris porky 🙂

54585 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 6, #553 of 1198 🔗

I just had an email reply after I contacted my MP regarding masks (I’ll omit names etc)

Thank you for emailing ****, Member of Parliament for ****. I have been asked to reply on ****s behalf at this stage to assure you that your email has been received and will be dealt with as soon as possible.

You will appreciate that **** receives thousands of emails every week, but he recognises that the issue you have raised is particularly urgent, so he will endeavour to respond to you within two weeks.

54601 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kbeanie, 1, #554 of 1198 🔗

Wow, within 2 weeks: puts those ‘the impossible-we-do-immediately, miracles take a little longer’ post-its in their full context!

54658 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to IanE, #555 of 1198 🔗

I’m amazed I got a reply at all to be honest! I know my MP is heavily involved with social media for our area etc but didn’t expect this

54682 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to kbeanie, 2, #556 of 1198 🔗

I had the same email from my MP, no doubt he’ll send me a letter again like he did last time. Why write a letter when you can email a direct response?!!

54702 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, #557 of 1198 🔗

Oh and in case anyone is wondering, the email I sent was actually the one emailed to me via Keep Britain Free. I just copied + pasted it instead of printing it to send in the post


54600 Little Red Hen, replying to Little Red Hen, 10, #558 of 1198 🔗

I live near three undertaker businesses (because I’m not far from the county hospital and the city cemetery) and when there is a funeral, it is evident because there is a lull in the traffic as the procession passes on through.

I know that funerals have been reduced to a bare minimum of both attendees and efforts on the part of any minister (because all those holy folk suddenly discovered that they did not, in fact, believe in eternal life but were instead determined to hang on to this one and bugger anyone who wanted their ministrations or sacraments…) but surely, if we have been in the throws of an epidemic, let alone pandemic, the cemeteries and crems. would be queued round the block and the streets eternally slowed behind yet another hearse or horse & carriage?

Yet neither has been the case. All is normal.
No piles of bodies, no throngs around the cemetery gates, no undertakers collapsing under the strain (or the effort of coffining-up under heavy PPE) and no blacked-out vans creeping round the streets, gathering up those apparent thousands who have kicked the bucket.

T’is all very odd…

54643 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Little Red Hen, 3, #559 of 1198 🔗

“Odd” … until you work out that mortality was on the high side for a month in April as higher infection caught up with the frail and elderly who had survived a year of unusually little threat in 2018/19 – but then receded to normal levels.

But the Scary Fairies who work for government won’t tell you that.

54811 ▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to RickH, 1, #560 of 1198 🔗

Don’t worry they are working flat our to get funerals going again and they are going to make sure there are very many of them.

54730 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Little Red Hen, 1, #561 of 1198 🔗

Anecdotally, in our French market town there are glazed notice boards in which death notices and funeral arrangements are displayed by the local (virtually monopoly) undertaker.

Although this is a very healthy area (very rare to see any deaths of under-90s) there are typically 2 or 3 notices per month.

In the last 5 or 6 weeks there has only been one – a lady in her 90s.

54813 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Little Red Hen, 5, #562 of 1198 🔗

Younger son has been creating websites for five or six funeral directors during lockdown. Every one of them has said they have only had two or three Covid deaths and they were all in their eighties

54602 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 20, #563 of 1198 🔗

The Government decision to Lockdown – which was justified on the basis of ‘saving lives’ – has actually had the worst impact on the most vulnerable in our society, e.g., the elderly and sick and the small business owners/’0 hours’ workers. This impact was reasonably foreseeable and not a surprise.

Why does not a single MP out of 650 recognize this? If they do recognize it why don’t they say anything about it?

Are they all in a trance?

54608 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Humanity First, 7, #564 of 1198 🔗

A lot of them may well be in a trance – after all, a lot of people generally are in a trance and MPs are not especially more switched on than the average person, as far as I can see.

The ones with more cop-on who realise something is up are probably just scared of losing their jobs, or of public disapproval, or both.

But I agree, other than 3 or 4 who have now said compulsory masks are not desirable, 0 out of 650 is pretty dire.

54615 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Julian, 7, #565 of 1198 🔗

“MPs are not especially more switched on than the average person”

Rather less so in many cases, in my opinion.

54680 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Humanity First, 2, #566 of 1198 🔗

I honestly think when you get to that position you lose touch with the real world and the people in it.

54711 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, #567 of 1198 🔗

I wonder what the each of the 650 think the future holds for them.

54766 ▶▶▶ Athanasius, replying to Basics, #568 of 1198 🔗

Pay rise?

54771 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Athanasius, 1, #569 of 1198 🔗

Electoral Armageddon.

54609 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 3, #570 of 1198 🔗
54665 ▶▶ Julian, replying to smileymiley, 7, #571 of 1198 🔗

Sadly not the important questions like what was the cost benefit analysis for lockdown and why are we persisting with all of these bogus public health measures when the virus is disappearing fast and not nearly as dangerous as first thought

54614 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 11, #572 of 1198 🔗

Civil disobedience starts on Friday next. The best approach is just to keep calm about it.

54618 ▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Castro, 3, #573 of 1198 🔗

I agree, Jonathan. Best not to allow oneself to be wound up by idiots.

54621 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 3, #574 of 1198 🔗

This is an article from a solicitors on how Hand Sanitisers can affect the drink driving breath test which may be required if you were stopped by the police or you were involved in an accident:


54648 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to JohnB, 3, #575 of 1198 🔗

Not condoning drink driving, but you’ve got to say there will be a certain poetic justice if this firm start getting loads of DD cases thrown out. Watch the ‘medical advice’ change then!

54652 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #576 of 1198 🔗

Quite interesting, I’ve heard about people who have used mouthwash failing tests before, but didn’t realise that the test was so sensitive that the fumes from the sanitiser on your hands were that powerful that they could lead to a failed test.

54725 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to JohnB, #577 of 1198 🔗

Or could enough of it be absorbed through the skin? Sounds unlikely, but with several liberal ‘dousings’ (e.g. shopping mall visit) and if the timing of the test was unfortunate perhaps.

Or do the coatings on the muzzles (Sh! don’t mention those) get breathed in and picked up by the test?

54634 Nel, replying to Nel, 14, #578 of 1198 🔗

In response to the muzzle:

There is a rage deep deep inside me
suppressed by an inability to vocalise
pushing upwards ready to spew
only to stop in my heart and fester

And so my world grows smaller
but my thoughts grow louder
deafening in their complexity
stuck in the dark recesses of my mind

And so I stew and my body pulses
to a rhythm almost primal
Words start to form but stick in my throat
to be swallowed back down by a gulp of air

I try again. Words start rising
mouth opens in anticipation to speak
but no words come, articulation stymied
they retreat inwards to the belly of wrath

And yet the rage keeps building

54769 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nel, 3, #579 of 1198 🔗

Foster that rage. Multiplied by that of all the decent human beings on this planet, it will blow THEM to hell, where they belong.

54802 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to annie, 1, #580 of 1198 🔗

Indeed…the rage truly keeps building!

54642 Mark, replying to Mark, 8, #581 of 1198 🔗

Still hunting for a plausible explanation for the coronapanic. The obvious one – mass stupidity, cowardice and general moral degeneracy – just seems rather inadequate to explain the sheer catastrophic lunacy of their behaviour and its dogged persistence. Over-arching conspiracy I’m still resisting, so I’ve come up with this:

Mind controlling parasites.

I’m still thrashing out all the details, but somehow when I think of the “Conservatives”, Labour and SNP, SAGE, the BBC and our mainstream media in general, and all the howling social media mobs of corona zealotry, along with their equivalents around the globe, terms like “ zombie parasites”, “zombified cockroaches” and “mind-controlling slime balls” just seem instinctively to fit.


54655 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Mark, 2, #582 of 1198 🔗

Personally I think more evidence exists for the over-arching conspiracy then for the mind controlling parasites.

54660 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 8, #583 of 1198 🔗

Peoples addiction to smart devices and social media is a major factor too. I think this it’s the younger generations that seem to be sh*tting it the most, and are the ones I’m seeing already wearing masks.

54671 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to JohnB, 6, #584 of 1198 🔗

Smart devices and social media reduce attention spans and increase impulsive and irrational behaviour. It is not dissimilar to what happens in the brain when someone is addicted to slot machines. Twitter and facebook re-enforce prejudice and can give the impression that if you were to dissent, you would be unusual and strange.

(When I had a job, I would need to have my phone in a locker or my car. Just having it near me would mess up my thinking)

54684 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to James007, 8, #585 of 1198 🔗

Unfortunately Social Media which was really good when it started out, is now mainly political now and has been taken over by the left. It’s now just an echo chamber for all these brainwashed fools, they don’t have to argue for and against what they’re saying, if someone has a different opinion they mass report them and get them banned from the platform.

Really they’ve all become publishers now as they are moderating content, and should no longer enjoy the freedoms of being classed as a platform.

54681 ▶▶▶ Nel, replying to JohnB, 1, #586 of 1198 🔗

It’s a fashion item

54694 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nel, 4, #587 of 1198 🔗

I always find it hypocritical how all these protesters are out there with the latest Apple iPhones, but then don’t care at all about the sweatshops in China making them, or Apple avoiding paying the $15 billion in taxes they owed to the EU.

Ricky Gervais was good at the Golden Globes when he called out all the woke virtue signalling actors being paid by Apple, Amazon, et al:

“Apple roared into the TV game with The Morning Show, a superb drama about the importance of dignity and doing the right thing, made by a company that runs sweatshops in China. Well, you say you’re woke but the companies you work for in China — unbelievable. Apple, Amazon, Disney. If ISIS started a streaming service you’d call your agent, wouldn’t you?”

55063 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 1, #588 of 1198 🔗

And don’t forget the minerals being mined by child workers in Africa to use for batteries for smartphones (mostly Apple) and so-called environmentally friendly cars. Where was the outcry about that?

54661 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Mark, 4, #589 of 1198 🔗

It’s a case of collective madness.

54686 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #590 of 1198 🔗

It’s like the shared psychotic disorder “Folie à deux” but in this case it is “Folie du monde”.

54719 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, #591 of 1198 🔗

What do you think about this?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUzonZxejVI

Mike Pompeo saying we are ‘in a live exercise’…????

54741 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Carrie, #592 of 1198 🔗

Mike Pompeo saying we are ‘in a live exercise’…????

I think it’s pretty clear in that case that he’s just using that turn of phrase to say that it’s an ongoing situation, not a theoretical issue, in the context of the demand they are making there for information from China.

By the way, I would automatically distrust anything coming from the US regime on China (or Russia). These are established liars and black propagandists talking about geopolitical rivals, and indeed enemies, as far as they are concerned. That’s not to say nothing they say about China or Russia is true, just that there’s absolutely no reason to give it any particular credence without evidence from credible and relatively honest sources with less motivation and track record for lying on the topic.

55247 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark, #593 of 1198 🔗

I get what you are saying but when added to page 39 of this WTO document from 2005 (!), it does make you wonder:


From page 39: note the date and the bit about ‘at least two systemwide training and simulation exercises, including one covering the deliberate release of a lethal respiratory pathogen’

When Mike Pompeo spoke, event 201 had already happened, so it is not event 201 that is referred to in the extract below.

Progress indicator(s) by September 2020

  • The Secretary-General of the United Nations, with the Director-General of WHO and Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs, strengthens coordination and identifies clear roles and responsibilities and timely triggers for a coordinated United Nations systemwide response for health emergencies in different countries and different health and humanitarian emergency contexts.
  • The United Nations (including WHO) conducts at least two systemwide training and simulation exercises, including one covering the deliberate release of a lethal respiratory pathogen.
  • WHO develops intermediate triggers to mobilize national, international and multilateral action early in outbreaks, to complement the existing mechanisms for later and more advanced stages of an outbreak under the IHR (2005).
  • The Secretary General of the United Nations convenes a high-level dialogue with health, security and foreign affairs officials to determine how the world can address the threat of a lethal respiratory pathogen pandemic, as well as managing preparedness for disease outbreaks in complex, insecure contexts.
54753 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #594 of 1198 🔗

Yes. And the suicidal crickets! Also for why business leaders aren’t giving it to the Tory leadership hot and strong and leading the revolt. Stuffing their mouths with gold can’t go on forever.

54793 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bruno, 2, #595 of 1198 🔗

Still for me one of the (quite a few admittedly) shocking features of this whole business was the almost complete, with a few honourable exceptions, failure of senior businessmen to put their money and influence behind counter-propaganda campaigns. They can’t all have been set up to benefit from the thorough trashing the economy has received. And surely some at least of them can’t have been so stupid as to actually believe all that nonsense.

My suspicion is that it all initially happened so suddenly that it caught them unawares in the crucial mid-March period, and they didn’t have time to get up to speed on it before it was too late. But they’ve still mostly been woefully slow and inadequate at organising effective resistance after the initial catastrophe of lockdown itself, and have allowed it to be drawn out endlessly for maximum, damage and cost.

54815 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, #596 of 1198 🔗

Couldn’t agree with you more. But, what to do? Is it more productive to write to them, Weatherspoons man, Osmond, Luke Johnson, they have to to get organised and start lobbying – which they’re normally pretty good at?

54663 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #597 of 1198 🔗

Just had to venture into the centre of deepest stokieland which I don’t do that often.

The amount of empty shops, market stalls etc was like an apocalyptical landscape, empty and boarding up on-going.

A few encouraging signs though:

  • the only 2 places still doing the counting and queueing were Argos (Sainsbury owned) and the council owned markets, both pretty empty
  • very few people out and about the high streets
  • very few masks being worn, only the ill (you could see they did not look healthy) and the sanctimonious crowd, highlight was one of these couples who we followed around the market watching them duck, swerve and not make any social contact with anyone then went into a crowded cafe, took off their masks and had a cup of tea and cake. I guess the intelligent virus now knew they were in a safe zone so not to attack them.
  • Tesco completely normal, as the old normal. Only 2 staff in any PPE – one with a face shield, one with a paper mask and she said she was wearing it as she felt “a bit sniffly” so fair enough.
  • people actually willing to make social contact, talk and converse in telcos at the old normal polite distance of arms length, few questioning look at my badge and more sceptics about now than before
  • the older stall holders thought my idea for a badge “I’m deaf, take off your fucking mask and talk to me properly so I can understand you” was a good idea.
54664 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #598 of 1198 🔗

Looks like your trip sounded encouraging.

If you want to see another apocalyptic ghost town, you should come to the City of London. I was there yesterday and it was depressing. Some of the stores in Leadenhall Market and One New Change were open but hardly anyone was going in. I can imagine that more people will stay away from 24 July onwards.

54669 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #599 of 1198 🔗

“Apocalyptical landscape?” Sounds like Stoke is finally improving!!!

54685 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 3, #600 of 1198 🔗

That’s what is sad, it’s actually worse than 6 months ago and it wasn’t good then. It’s not improved much in the 17 years I’ve lived outside of the town (maybe I’m the cause?)

Even the Intu Potteries centre the other day was almost empty and with the Debenhams in it closed and shuttered and most market stalls underneath vacant there is not a lot to entice anyone in to the place anymore except Primark.

54691 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #601 of 1198 🔗

My parents said Newcastle-under-Lyme was just the same, less than half the shops open there, not really much point of even shopping there.

55136 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to JohnB, #602 of 1198 🔗

Yes I can vouch for that its on its arse.

54706 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #603 of 1198 🔗

Despite the horrendous added apocolpyse the character of the potteries folk will shine through. Brilliant folk, the best up there with Geordies for down right decentness, imo.

54873 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 1, #604 of 1198 🔗

Yep, it’s a forgotten bit of the country and doesn’t help with bigger idiots than normal running the councils.

55138 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Basics, #605 of 1198 🔗

I went to a private recycling centre in stoke before the council ones opened. It was very early on in lockdown. I was impressed with the way the stoke lads just got stuck in emptying my car…you could tell they all thought it was bullshit.

54666 TJN, replying to TJN, 2, #606 of 1198 🔗

Has anyone heard how Tony is doing?

Tylean was in contact with him, but I haven’t seen her on here for a bit.

Missing Biker too.

54668 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, 2, #607 of 1198 🔗

I believe someone mentioned that Tony is OK. He probably needed to take some time off this site.

Have not heard from Biker too, hope he’s OK.

54676 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #608 of 1198 🔗

I’m sure Biker’s ok – I just miss his posts.

There was one last week in which he described his despair with the mask business, he didn’t want the hassle, he didn’t have one anyway, he couldn’t face going out etc. I was thinking oh no, surely he’s not buckling. Then he went on only joking, fuck the lot of them, or words to that effect. An absolute gem.

55065 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to TJN, #609 of 1198 🔗

He’s probably planning to channel William Wallace in an uprising against She Who Must Be Obeyed.

54673 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to TJN, #610 of 1198 🔗

I saw a comment from Tylean that Tony was okay which is good and a massive relief. Thank god for the people on this site looking out for each other.

Tylean has set up a forum too so whether she has been on there more instead of here.

I can’t imagine Biker not being okay but it is a bit odd he’s not been on here today. Hopefully he’s just busy.

54761 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to ambwozere, 2, #611 of 1198 🔗

Probably busy organising the Pictish rebellion.

55035 ▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Sarigan, #612 of 1198 🔗

What happened to BecJT?

54667 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #613 of 1198 🔗

Funny how this is coming out now:


I was thinking about people I know who are so pro-mask and also making noises about the environment; yet they fall silent when I point out that masks both the disposable and cloth ones are harmful to the environment as well.

54670 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #614 of 1198 🔗

That’s a good point actually as all the virtuous people are always on about environmental issues too.

55068 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ambwozere, #615 of 1198 🔗

I do know a few personally and their virtue signalling over the environment could be rather irritating. In the past they could have made excellent fire and brimstone preachers.

54675 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #616 of 1198 🔗

Yes, the waste generated by this Mask Cult is already appalling and set to get much worse. BTW, my hairdresser told me that salons are forced to use disposable gowns (I had a dry cut so forgot to ask him about towels.)

Bless him, he has bought in compostable gowns at great expense because he is appalled at the throwaway plastic versions which are about 1/4 the price. There is a lot of money being made somewhere and f**k the planet!

(Yet more cognitive dissonance for the virtue-signallers.)

55067 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #617 of 1198 🔗

One of my colleagues raised that issue when gloves were discussed as she said she would refuse to use one out of concern for the environment. Thankfully the use of gloves isn’t compulsory in my workplace (I won’t wear one as they cause my skin to rash and itch).

54750 ▶▶ Will, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #618 of 1198 🔗

As the Daily Mash put it, “People who bang on about plastic are always flying off on holiday”

54777 ▶▶▶ Face Nappy, replying to Will, 1, #619 of 1198 🔗

From the 24th I shall not be boosting the economy by shopping in towns and am sure I will not be the only one.
I really wish people would just apply common sense and just stay at safe distance from one another then face nappy’s would not be needed.

54871 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #620 of 1198 🔗

Called the law of unintended but totally bleeding obvious consequences.

Politicians and do-gooders cause a lot of it.

54674 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #621 of 1198 🔗

Just noticed this on Care Homes.

“Could it be that the real reason for the high death toll in care homes during the lockdown is not that COVID-19 ripped through them …” (etc.)

The one thing that is rarely identified is that there was a much higher population of the vulnerable, because of the numbers that survived 2018/2019 – which was a season of remarkably low infection. Such a population was inevitably susceptible to the higher level of infection in 2019/20.

In fact, if the ‘all cause’ mortality of those two seasons is averaged, it is almost exactly at the longer term (27 year) mean adjusted for population.

On top of this, you obviously have the fact that no provision was made to consistently protect the vulnerable in Care Homes. But, actually this is the case in most seasons, so it is hardly surprising that the averaged two-year figure for mortality is not extreme, and is linked to extreme age and other health conditions. Covid-19 is simply not that exceptional in the long run.

54678 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to RickH, 2, #622 of 1198 🔗

My mother in law care home was virus free yet she hasn’t seen her family since March!

54692 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #623 of 1198 🔗

Yes. I think that is another important point. The deprivation of normal contact is actually a significant detriment. But, of course, costs have never been properly weighed in all this sorry episode.

54810 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #624 of 1198 🔗

Yes the same for my father at the care home where he lives and still no movement on visiting. Very very sad, angry and frustrated at he level of separation and pain caused

54679 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to RickH, #625 of 1198 🔗

Probably a bit like flooding and other natural cycles.

54683 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 1, #626 of 1198 🔗

In fact, if the ‘all cause’ mortality of those two seasons is averaged, it is almost exactly at the longer term (27 year) mean adjusted for population.”

Do you have a source for this?

54687 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #627 of 1198 🔗

Yes. ONS weekly mortality data, corrected for population.

You will find a full examination at :


54721 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 1, #628 of 1198 🔗

Thanks for that – excellent analysis. Now to find a few billionaires happy to temporarily trash their reputations and fund a massive publicity campaign to get the message across.

54736 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #629 of 1198 🔗

I think you have a point about spreading the message. It is easy to forget that those of us writing on these forums are largely talking amongst ourselves, and that the general brainwashing has been pretty crude, but effective.

54747 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 7, #630 of 1198 🔗

Not a very constructive point sadly. I post comments on BBC and other news sites, but I am not on social media as it is pretty vile

I don’t have many friends left and can’t hector my colleagues with this as I am in senior management and it wouldn’t be appropriate

So there’s a limit to what I can do

I think we have to hope that Toby Young, Peter Hitchens and others along with maybe some rebel MPs can gradually chip away

We need a few big names

Simon Dolan has done great work, but it would have more impact if he was better known (and much richer!)

54774 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Julian, 2, #631 of 1198 🔗

I am amazed that no business CEOs are giving the Tory leadership an earful. Do they still buy in to the accepted narrative en masse? Money talks louder than our writing to MPs, or a few enlightened journalists.

55365 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bruno, #632 of 1198 🔗

Yes, very few have spoken up. Hugh Osmond. Luke Johnson. The Ryanair chap, a bit. The airlines were threatening a legal challenge.

Maybe they are in private. You’d hope so. Trouble is in the publicly quoted ones I suspect the CEOs are afraid of opprobrium, putting profit before lives, all that nonsense. We need more Elon Musks here (though not sure I’d relish working for him…)

54699 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, 1, #633 of 1198 🔗

If you don’t have doctors and paramedics attending to ill people then they die, this has been the cause of the high mortality, along with the decision to move all the “bed blockers” from the hospitals to care homes.

54732 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 1, #634 of 1198 🔗

The point I’m making is that mortality hasn’t been massively high if all factors are considered, even given the obvious poor handling of the Care Home situation.

Although Covid may have been *a* factor in deaths of the elderly and vulnerable, it probably wasn’t an unusually potent factor even in this area, given the clear role of both age and comorbidity in the mortality gradient.

54749 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 2, #635 of 1198 🔗

Indeed. Someone on here a while ago posted that covid-19 may have temporarily reduced average life expectancy by a few months – a reduction that will over time be overcome by better treatment and prevention. The government obviously can’t control all of the media and governments globally and the WHO, but they didn’t need to row hard in the other direction.

As I said yesterday, Sweden took a different approach and sold it to their people – doubtless there are many critics there, but they did it in the face of that and have survived.

54751 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, #636 of 1198 🔗

Yes – that is another form of calculation : life-months difference. And it’s actually quite small in general in relation to this virus as far as I can see.

54971 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to JohnB, #637 of 1198 🔗

Yeah, Occams Razor ” The most simple solution, is usually the right one “

54677 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #638 of 1198 🔗

We had a very enjoyable lunch and a few drinks at one of our local pubs. What a pleasure it was to once again do something that used to be a natural part of our lives before the virus scammers took over our lives.

54759 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #639 of 1198 🔗

I went to a local pub in Oxfordshire yesterday. 100% normal and just like ‘the good old days’.

54883 ▶▶▶ Philip P, replying to Sarigan, 1, #640 of 1198 🔗

That’s great.

Btw It would be quite helpful if anyone posting these encouraging messages could say which pub chain the pub belonged to, if they know, just as a guide to others.

I had a very different experience with a Barons pub recently and will not be back, ever.

54891 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Philip P, #641 of 1198 🔗

It is a freehouse. Happy to share details and have added to business section on site. Just search under OX10 7 – https://lockdownsceptics.org/open-for-business/

54688 ambwozere, replying to ambwozere, 10, #642 of 1198 🔗

Simon Dolan’s Keep Britain Free website now has a forum on it for those who might be interested.


54908 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to ambwozere, 1, #643 of 1198 🔗

Thanks. Going there right now.

54689 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 35, #644 of 1198 🔗

I cannot believe Bojo is trumpeting that we may be able to hug our families by Christmas. Is there a single person in this country who still keeps members of their family and close friends at social distancing limits? Even the biggest bedwetters I know have their kids and grandchildren round and are completely back to normal behind closed doors. The emperor has no clothes.

54696 ▶▶ RickH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 11, #645 of 1198 🔗

Precisely. At a 1 in 3,900 chance of encountering a virus – who isn’t going to be embracing family and friends already – except the terminally gullible and ill-informed?

What an idiot! (possibly because his family is such a moveable feast and he won’t have many friends with any sense).

We de-sensitized our children and grandchildren back in May when it was obvious what a load of old bollocks this all was in terms of real risk. And we’re in the ‘more vulnerable’ category.

54698 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 19, #646 of 1198 🔗

If family or friends are comfortable with it and CHOOSE to let you have more contact, then surely that’s acceptable? If they don’t, then don’t. That’s what I’ve never understood. Obviously if you’re blatantly unwell then yes don’t hug vulnerable people. But jeeezzzzz how disturbing are all these questions we’ve seen plastered over MSM: When AM I ALLOWED hug my grandchildren again? When AM I ALLOWED to have family stay over? When AM I ALLOWED to do X, Y, Z whatever; the concept of being allowed to do these things is just plain surreal

54705 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to kbeanie, 13, #647 of 1198 🔗

Agree. What kind of grandparent are you to ask when you can see the grandchildren again? Children do not understand why they are suddenly neglected.

54707 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to kbeanie, 17, #648 of 1198 🔗

There was never any law, nor is there now, about hugging or any kind of distancing, at least at a personal level. It was only guidance. Ditto about people who were advised to isolate. But the BBC and others use words like ALLOWED which suggest a law or rule, not guidance. I complained to the BBC and got their usual rubbish back. But some did and do take it seriously, and it’s a disgrace that this kind of propaganda was mercilessly repeated so that people did take it as gospel.

I can’t imagine the PM has many friends. Whether he’s hugging friends and family or not, who knows? He’s not in the same world as most of the rest of us.

54914 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, 2, #649 of 1198 🔗

He’s most likely still shagging his significant other, though.

54917 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to richard riewer, 1, #650 of 1198 🔗

This keeps being said. I know he has a history, but she has had a baby in the last couple of months. Not, in my experience, a time in one’s life where sexual activity is likely to be distractingly frequent.

55145 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to richard riewer, #651 of 1198 🔗

Bugs bunny lives on.

54716 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to kbeanie, #652 of 1198 🔗

I think the real dilemma that we sometimes face is that desire not to make people uncomfortable – even if they have simply been subject to a brainwashing meme.

It is easier to change the feelings of people that you are closest to, I find. But more difficult with those that are at the ‘acquaintance’ end of the spectrum of friendship.

54735 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to kbeanie, 9, #653 of 1198 🔗

Because I actually care about people I didn’t need HMG to tell me to stay away from my elderly relatives if I was ill. We stayed away if we had colds nevermind Covid. I’m sick of being treated like a simpleton.

54762 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kbeanie, 3, #654 of 1198 🔗

Who wants to be hugged by a zombie?

54888 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to kbeanie, #655 of 1198 🔗

whenever I arrange to meet any friend, I always send a text first saying that if they’d like to hug, I have lots of hugs available! If not, if they aren’t ready for that again yet, that’s fine too. In that way, there’s no awkwardness when we meet, the decision is theirs, and they know I’m fine with it.

54913 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to kbeanie, #656 of 1198 🔗

To paraphrase what the Premier of Quebec told his flock of sheepish citizens four days ago ‘we are working on changing your habits and we won’t be finished for a long time to come’.

54760 ▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #657 of 1198 🔗

Can we strangle Boris by Christmas?

54773 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to annie, 10, #658 of 1198 🔗

If we did his death would be recorded as a Covid death under the current system.

54889 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Chicot, 2, #659 of 1198 🔗

It would too, as he’s had Covid 😂 😂

54909 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #660 of 1198 🔗

All of this is beginning to look and feel like we are living in a dystopian children’s book story. No Huggies ’til Xmas or you’ll go to your room and stay there.

55075 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #661 of 1198 🔗

That said I know someone who has claimed that she’s not hugged her parents at any time when she stayed with them for 4 months. Most odd.

But then again she is a millenial and I notice that they seem to be the most fastidious when it comes to observing antisocial distancing. I get the feeling that we will end up also with a society like the end of WW1 – loads of single women not because there aren’t any men to get around but because this insanity has retarded their social skills.

55148 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bart Simpson, #662 of 1198 🔗

They are not the most free thinking of generations. They are terrified of being out casted on social media.

54695 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #663 of 1198 🔗

Breaking NEWS: Texas doctor claims he discovered effective and inexpensive solution for COVID-19
Budesonide is typically inhaled via a nebulizer, a non-invasive medical device that transforms medication into vapor so it can be breathed in by the patient through a handheld nozzle or simple face mask. The drug is commonly used to treat asthma .

Because it helps alleviate inflammation in the body, doctors also use budesonide for other reasons, including managing symptoms of Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis. But, according to Texas ER physician Dr. Richard Bartlett, budesonide is helping his COVID patients recover extremely quickly and without the side effects commonly seen with other heavier-duty steroid medications.


54722 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Victoria, 2, #664 of 1198 🔗

The success in Japan and Korea is attributed to this treatment also.

54700 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 6, #665 of 1198 🔗

Nobel Prize Winner speaks out against Covid-19 Deception

  • Nobel Laureate Luc Antoine Montagnier said on French media that COVID-19 was manmade, contains elements of HIV and a parasite that causes malaria, and resulted from an industrial accident during HIV vaccine development
  • Montagnier says the COVID-19 virus pandemic will likely end from “interfering waves” because nature rejects molecular tampering
  • In a paper on Center for Open Science, Montagnier and his colleague, bio-mathematician Jean-Claude Perez, say COVID-19 mutations suggest the virus is deleting the inserted, manmade elements
  • In the Quarterly Review of Biophysics, Norwegian scientist Birger Sørensen and British oncologist Angus Dalgleish also call COVID-19 manmade
  • An investigation by The Times of London reveals many questions about COVID-19’s origins and shocking cover-ups


54703 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Victoria, 2, #666 of 1198 🔗

Very interesting!

54733 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Victoria, 4, #667 of 1198 🔗

Authorities rapidly denied this, and forced the Indian researchers who suggested this back in January to remove their work – see attached:


Easy to ignore them, given who they were and where, but less easy to ignore Montagnier – here in April:


Times, they are a changing!

54875 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Victoria, 2, #668 of 1198 🔗

So if the virus is mutating and deleting the inserted manmade elements, what is actually left? A bad cold, if it’s a coronavirus?

54701 James McMeehan Roberts, replying to James McMeehan Roberts, 14, #669 of 1198 🔗


Today’s post as provocative, infuriating, essential as ever.

I have just finished watching a webinar from my alma mater on the subject of ‘How do we get out of lockdown’. The university experts included a mathematical modeller who is a member of SAGE. Sadly, they didn’t address the question at all, but instead set off with the assumption that avoiding the ‘second wave’ was the only way to go. Another wasted opportunity to address real issues, and so typical of the way public so-called scientific discourse is now going.

I have short analysis to show you which is a reductio ad absurdum of the political pursuit of zero deaths: Australia.

Australia has had in total 116 deaths. A major success, one might say. But now it is in its ‘second wave’ with a lot of new positive tests, particularly in Victoria, with police-controlled lockdowns introduced. The ‘second wave’ has resulted so far in 11 deaths over three weeks. Hardly going to overwhelm the health service, is it?

And the cost?

The Oz Treasury has estimated that the national economy will shrink by A$50 billion in the second quarter alone. That’s A$2,000 for each and every member of the population. And it’s projected to continue to cost A$4 billion per week until the economy turns around.

The average age of those who have died is 78, and there has not been a single death below the age of 40.

At what point does a government wake up to the reality of the impact of its actions on the life of the entire country?

Human progress has been halted. We now live in Global Idiocracy.

James McMeehan Roberts

54714 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to James McMeehan Roberts, 11, #670 of 1198 🔗

Someone asked me back in March what I would do if i was in Government.

Told them I’d tell everyone keep living a normal life, you drop dead we will pay to bury/cremate you for free but you get nothing fancy.

Looks like it would have been a cheaper way to handle things.

54746 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #671 of 1198 🔗

I guess the considered answer would be :

“The same as every f.ing year when the sky doesn’t fall in.”

54805 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #672 of 1198 🔗

I used to get asked this all the time over on Guido Fawke’s site. I just say the government’s line, right from Day One ought to have been, and remain: “Grow a pair and get on with your lives.”

55150 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Nick Rose, #673 of 1198 🔗

Guido Fawkes …..if thats being right wing we might as well have communism.

54806 ▶▶ Bella, replying to James McMeehan Roberts, 1, #674 of 1198 🔗

Either an Idiocracy (though I don’t believe any official is that stupid) or something far more sinister

54708 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #675 of 1198 🔗

Here’s a new “I never knew this” thing I’ve been reading today that ties in with the coming have the vaccine or you won’t have life worth living but it won’t be compulsory scenario and depopulation scenario:

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_monsanto121.htm Monsanto, one of the world’s most evil companies


“Sterility is also soaring in America and our government says it does not have a clue why! It is a well known and documented fact that a biotech company Epicyte (in conjunction with the US government) patented a genetically modified corn that causes the host body to produce antibody’s to sperm, rendering males who eat it sterile, and women who eat it … killers of sperm. This research was then purchased by biotech giants Monsanto and Bayer … for WHAT ?? Yet if you try to find out if the corn you are eating is Epicyte modified, or in fact if any of the GMO food you are exposed to has this gene incorporated into it … that request for information is ILLEGAL! … REALLY? … WHY ???”

Well well well look who is involved:


No wonder they picked on tanzania about the covid-19 test results a while ago, look what they did in 2018:


54712 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #677 of 1198 🔗

See also this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wQx-BjmfJk about Gates other population reduction programmes in Africa

54825 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Carrie, 2, #678 of 1198 🔗
54869 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Humanity First, 2, #679 of 1198 🔗

Yep, been telling people he’s got his sticky fingers into nearly everything that works to our detriment.

55016 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #680 of 1198 🔗

Brazil is another one to look into for mass sterilisation.

Incidentally….. Trust Stamp is being “rolled out” in Africa. Just announced a few days ago. Biosecurity health passport and master card all in one. Google it. Backed by… GAVI.

Conspiracy therory? My, my, that is one motherfuck of a coincidence, don’t you think?

54718 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 29, #681 of 1198 🔗

Anecdotal but illuminating. I was round at my local SPAR last night to get some tinnies and milk (the staff there have been fantastic all the way through the lockdown) – one of the girls there, a young mother had been telling her 4 year old daughter about having to wear masks from the 24th of July. Her daughter (A FOUR YEAR OLD!!) asked why, when the Covid-19 is fading away. Priceless.


54820 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DavidC, 14, #682 of 1198 🔗

That child needs to take her place on SAGE – she has more scientific ability and common sense!

54723 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #683 of 1198 🔗

Went shopping yesterday, asked the checkout guy in Aldi, what he thought about masks? He said staff will have to wear them on the shop floor, but not on tills or in backroom. Didn’t get chance to ask if store will enforce for customers, cos folk were queueing, but sounds like they might.

Anyway, big adventure later on – I got the bus! I didn’t want to waste my electronic ticket, so told the driver straight away that I couldnt wear a mask due to panic. He just nodded and off we went. I don’t think he would have said anything, if I hadn’t. A small victory.

Into Wethy’s – usual relaxed approach, they’re doing it right. Just walked in, met my mate and enjoyed a few Speckled Hens and a slap up meal (don’t tell Lord Snooty).

Best day for a while. Then Boris spoils it all today. I can just see our local council spoiling the shop and the pub experiences, sniff of power and all that. But when they do, I will have my Biker head on 🙂

54743 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #684 of 1198 🔗

I think you touch on an important point about not making those at the sharp end feel bad about the bollocks that isn’t their fault.

54752 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to RickH, 4, #685 of 1198 🔗

Absolutely. People gotta pay the bills. And we’re pretty damn clear about who to blame.

54724 DeepBlueYonder, 1, #686 of 1198 🔗

I feel shattered by the revelation that, according to Carl Heneghan, “Anyone who has tested COVID positive but subsequently died at a later date of any cause will be included on the PHE COVID death figures.”

I am not a cynical person. I tend assume that the intentions of institutions are benevolent, not malevolent. However, my faith in institutions is disintegrating.

The Seven Principles of Public Life state that “Holders of public office should be truthful.” What is happening to truth, honour, right and wrong?

Is there a possibility of a Citizen Science project to derive a truer figure of COVID deaths? Does anyone know whether (anonymised) medical certificates of cause of death (MCCD) are ever accessible to researchers/the public from local register offices?

54726 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 8, #687 of 1198 🔗

A better experience in my small town today: nearly all shops now open for business; lots of people about.

Watched the queue of elderly blokes ,lined up outside the nearby barber’s shop; some masked, a couple not.

All the small salons are busy.

3 friendly greetings at zero waste, greengrocer’s and post office. I exchange pleasantries regularly at all three and my badge was waved away when I showed it.

Mask behaviour is fascinating to watch: worn, pulled down, pulled up again to enter shop then removed and placed in pocket or bag.

Surely even the most obedient would by now have realised that since humanity hasn’t been obliterated-yet!-that wearing a contaminated and useless piece of stuff is just not worth it?

Breathing in and out , without obstruction or impedance is much better for general well being: when will the penny drop?

Amusing encounter at hairdressing salon: first available appointment in one month’s time;I took it, as now in need of expert attention.

I had to wait on the pavement and communicate via half opened door!

Owner, clad in perspex visor and plastic apron told me that she’s fine and that it saves her having to bother with makeup and false eye lashes!

(I don’t bother with either, preferring the plain simple look.)

Pleased that her business is in great demand and that all the stylists are well.

54728 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wendyk, 9, #688 of 1198 🔗

Forgot to include in my post just now, woman in front of me at till had mask on, constantly fiddling with it, then touching card payment terminal and no doubt half the stuff in the shop before that. Who’s the most dangerous?

54770 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #689 of 1198 🔗

Exactly! Bloke behind me at post office complained about wearing mask; I showed him my badge but he demurred politely.

However, he fiddled with the rainbow coloured face wear while we waited.

These folk are making so many difficulties for themselves; they need to wake up,look around and ask themselves why the streets and roads aren’t piled high with casualties, ambulances, hearses and plague doctors!

54801 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to wendyk, 5, #690 of 1198 🔗

Should have told him to fuck off and mind his own business

54862 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cecil B, 2, #691 of 1198 🔗

Is that you, Biker? 🙂

54729 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #692 of 1198 🔗

“Mask behaviour is fascinating to watch …” In here, they just slap them on the table (yuk) …

Glad it was a less grim experience for you today wendyk.

54731 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kh1485, 1, #693 of 1198 🔗

Thank you kh.

54756 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, #694 of 1198 🔗


54734 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #695 of 1198 🔗

Tosser on radio news now, saying Government have been slow in giving councils power – “they haven’t recognised the expertise in local councils”. How do you spell “Oxymoron” again?

54737 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #696 of 1198 🔗

Sorry … “expertise”? Best laugh I’ve had all day!

54755 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 3, #697 of 1198 🔗

I used to work for the buggers, and every joke that you hear (or make) is true.

54764 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #698 of 1198 🔗

My sympathies!

54748 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #699 of 1198 🔗

Hope they employ a few more professional and experienced managers than when my father worked in local government (the Socialist Republic of North Tyneside). His line manager was all set for full-scale chip manufacturing to save money vs the cost of buying in for the local school meals programme until my father pointed out they would achieve annual consumption in one day’s factory run!

54767 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #700 of 1198 🔗

Ha ha, yes, my local authority employs load of epidemiologists… Actually, hold on, aren’t they the ones that have caused all the trouble?

54787 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #701 of 1198 🔗

Ours, Bournemouth Christchurch Poole are about to spunk hard earned Council Tax putting their wallahs through training about ‘unconscious bias’ or some such woke, Marxist, lefty claptrap

54824 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 4, #702 of 1198 🔗

That kind of political indoctrination at taxpayer expense should simply be flat out unconstitutional.

54853 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 5, #703 of 1198 🔗

It was reported in our local newspaper yesterday that our council is doing the same. Apparently, ‘Royston Vasey’ is a hotbed of racial discrimination.

And notices up outside the park saying people shouldn’t “loiter”. Glad my council tax is being put to good use.

54864 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 7, #704 of 1198 🔗

I’m not aware that I’ve got unconscious bias.

54788 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #705 of 1198 🔗


54758 T. Prince, 1, #706 of 1198 🔗

Ivor does it again. Bit long but…more ammo against LDs


54765 richard riewer, #707 of 1198 🔗

In reference to the latest PM Johnson political cartoon:
All aboard the PM Johnson express.

54776 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 31, #708 of 1198 🔗

Interesting to see how people treat their face masks. Watching people in Sainsbury’s it seems to be:
1. Put mask on – ideally Cath Kidston florals if you’re a lady or a black neoprene posing pouch if you’re a real man
2. Go in shop
3. Adjust mask
4. Mumble to friend, partner or the terrified child you have tried to coerce into compliance with a Fortnite face nappy
5. Eh?
6. Pull mask down and repeat what you said
7. Replace mask. Should it be this damp already?
8. Re adjust mask
9. Re adjust little Jayson’s mask (Gawd I hope he isn’t going to need his ears pinning back because this elastic is making him look like a young Prince Charles 😯 )
9. Hey what’s that smell? Have I got bad breath?! Pull mask forward for discrete sniff
10. Getting hot in here now so fiddle some more and perhaps free your nose for a bit if nobody is looking. (Top tip: there’s never anyone in the Free From section)
11. Glasses steamed up now but can’t read the label so put that ready meal right in front of your face and adjust your specs. Oh dear it’s not plant-based, Hermione will never eat it. Sling it back on the shelf.
12. Join queue to pay – better adjust mask ready for inspection by the cashier “to be safe”
13. Touch card machine, touch conveyer belt
14. Leave shop
15. Remove mask and stuff in bag or pocket
16. Go to next shop… and repeat

54781 ▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #709 of 1198 🔗

Superbly expressed!
Does ‘free from’ include ‘free from face nappy’?

54785 ▶▶ wendy, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 10, #710 of 1198 🔗

Perfect. Will someone tell Boris.

54796 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #711 of 1198 🔗

Strange isn’t it, if you had told the nation 12 months ago the country will be on its knees for the flu and nearly everybody will be wearing masks they would of locked you away

55088 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #712 of 1198 🔗

Don’t forget take obligatory selfie and pose on Arsebook or Twatter or Narcissistgram to virtue signal and get likes and messages of support from fellow sheep.

54779 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 14, #713 of 1198 🔗

Ethelred will this time be ready! He has ordered his hidden disability lanyard and awaits the inevitable Co-Op stand-off with a be-masked (or at least, facially pashminad) zealot. “Your disability is awfully well hidden!” To which Ethelred will -quick as a flash reply – “That’s the problem with Macrophallus, a loose pair of slacks tends to cloud the issue, but feel free to take a proper look, if you dare, Madam”

54782 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 1, #714 of 1198 🔗

I feel certain the actualite will fail to live up to the hype. 🤣

54784 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 8, #715 of 1198 🔗

I’ve got one too. Fortunately being hyperthyroid can result in a condition called high cardiac output heart failure. I had it two years ago before they got my thyroid meds right. It means you have a very high oxygen demand and as I’m sure no shop keeper would wish to endanger my life or have me faint in the aisle I’m sure they will let me in!

54790 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #716 of 1198 🔗

Can’t believe I just described heart failure as fortunate! But anything is better than surrendering my liberty!

54794 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #717 of 1198 🔗

I sympathise, having also suffered from thyrotoxicosis several years ago, fortunately without the high output failure.

And you and I know all too well what unnecessary stress can do to hyperthyroid folk.

54803 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #718 of 1198 🔗

As I’ve said – just say that wearing a mask induces hypoxia and hypercania you.

You’re telling the truth and you don’t need to explain.

54915 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, #719 of 1198 🔗

Sorry – just noticed : ‘Hypercapnia”

55092 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #720 of 1198 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣

I have one too. Have not been challenged on transport but am ready in the supermarket.

54780 Nel, #721 of 1198 🔗

Interesting perspective on the virus from ex Chinese people


54783 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #722 of 1198 🔗


Europe’s largest outbreak of Sars Cov2 in Gutersloh County took place 5 weeks ago. What happens, when 1500 workers infected by this highly contagious and highly deadly virus live unrecognized in a medium sized town? (Tests ramped up with unprecedented capacity in June) They did a mass screening in an abattoir and found 1500 positives in 3 days. Mostly asymptomatic. Nothing with those workers, but more than 600.000 people got quarantined. Fatalities Gutersloh county 10th June 21 Fatalities Gutersloh County 17th July 20 (no typo one case reclassified)

54800 ▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, #723 of 1198 🔗

This is typical.

54789 wendy, replying to wendy, #724 of 1198 🔗

perhaps you have already covered this but I can’t resist asking if anyone will be clapping for Nicola on Saturday for her 50th!

54791 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendy, 4, #725 of 1198 🔗


54797 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to wendyk, 10, #726 of 1198 🔗

Meant to add: my hands will be adopting strictly enforced social distancing measures, so will be unable to meet for the duration of the clap fest.

54830 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendyk, 3, #727 of 1198 🔗


54804 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendy, 3, #728 of 1198 🔗

As someone else has said, i’d rather shit in my hands and then clap

54809 ▶▶ Paul, replying to wendy, 6, #729 of 1198 🔗

She’s only 50 ?!

54832 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 2, #730 of 1198 🔗

Sorry, only just seen this, but I was surprised too!

54829 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to wendy, 4, #731 of 1198 🔗

Is she only 50? 😉

55386 ▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to wendy, #732 of 1198 🔗

First person to stop clapping will be judged politically unorthodox and voluntarily entered into a re-education facility.

54795 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #733 of 1198 🔗

For those not wanting to mask up next week….

£5 off a £40 spend on a online shop at Iceland before 20th July 2020.

54817 ▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #734 of 1198 🔗

Any shop that is going to challenge me over not wearing a face mask is not going to be receiving my business online either.

54821 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Saved To Death, #735 of 1198 🔗

Good luck to you if you have the option

54833 ▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #736 of 1198 🔗

As I understand so far the options will Tesco and Lidl. I have already been shopping at Lidl more often due to their essentially normal atmosphere in store.

54882 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Saved To Death, 2, #737 of 1198 🔗

Lidl have been good throughout this nonsense tbf

54799 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 6, #738 of 1198 🔗

The shagger has announced that the lockdown will continue until Christmas (when all the decent rioting weather as gone)

54816 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Cecil B, 2, #739 of 1198 🔗

Silly man clinging to daft emergency powers

54848 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #740 of 1198 🔗

Not just “silly” – a stupid, narcissistic, lying and dangerous individual.

54894 ▶▶ anon, replying to Cecil B, 1, #741 of 1198 🔗

April next year I heard (hotel chain).

this whole thing stinks to high heaven

54928 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to anon, #742 of 1198 🔗

anon, yes it does.When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it


54901 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cecil B, 4, #743 of 1198 🔗

How does he know it will be safe by Christmas?

And how can he possibly, honestly believe that people won’t hug until he gives the go ahead?!

54927 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Cecil B, #744 of 1198 🔗

When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it


54808 Paul, replying to Paul, 14, #745 of 1198 🔗

I’ve just been to Screwfix and even though I was the only customer I was made to wait outside,I gave my order number to a chap who then went down to the counter so I followed only to be told ‘stop !,wait there’ by a lad who was about eighteen and being in my fifties I was a little bit annoyed at a youngster speaking to me with a bit of attitude.Once my order was at the counter I was deemed safe to approach and pick it up,I asked the lady why Screwfix management think it is acceptable to treat customers so poorly.’god knows,we think it’s ridiculous aswell,a lot of customers aren’t happy either’ she replied.
In the Co-op I asked the young lady on the till what their mask policy will be next week,’compulsory for customers and staff’,what about exemptions for medical reasons ? I wondered,she asked what my medical condition was and I told her that was confidential and I didn’t have to tell her so she asked the manager and he said exemptions were fine and customers would not be challenged,I fear that the trouble will come from masked zealot customers however.
In the Co-op at the time was a muzzled couple and I have to say they made me feel queasy,both their masks looked soaked with sweat and whatever and the woman in particular was constantly touching it and then handling items on the shelves,yuk !.

54828 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 8, #746 of 1198 🔗

My sympathies Paul. I think there are certain types of people who are absolutely loving the bit of power they have now.

A friend had a similar experience trying to get white spirit in Brewers. He got to the barriered off door and was met with a surly “have you booked the item online?” to which my friend said he hadn’t and he asked, not unreasonably, as the bloke was there, couldn’t he just buy the white spirit there and then. No, it had to be pre-booked. Another business crossed off the list.

Another depressing thing about this today. An erstwhile LS customer arrived today with a disgusting looking piece of black polyester strapped to his face. I am truly dreading next Friday …

54841 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Paul, 7, #747 of 1198 🔗

Screwfix are similar in my area. Not too much surly attitude but the customer just crawled from a petri dish and will be treated as such because it is “national policy”.

54814 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 19, #748 of 1198 🔗


I’ve just re-read the SAGE minutes from 16.03.20:


At point 9 (under Situation Update) they state:

9. The risk of one person within a household passing the infection to others within the household is estimated to increase during household isolation, from 50% to 70%.

Why hasn’t anyone picked up on this? W hat did the government do? They imposed household isolation, thus increasing the risk of infection!

54819 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Moomin, 9, #749 of 1198 🔗

This really is appalling especially as they must have known what was happening in Northern Italy with multi generational households.

54843 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Moomin, 6, #750 of 1198 🔗

I suppose they’d argue it’s then keeping it within one household instead of it spreading to more.

But I wholeheartedly agree that this is scenario has been a monumental load of bollocks.

54866 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to kbeanie, 5, #751 of 1198 🔗

Yeah, I guess so, but it still doesn’t warrant the blanket household isolation of the whole mainly healthy population. Makes me so angry.

54874 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, #752 of 1198 🔗

So, in one householdthat’s a 40% increase from 50% to 70%. 40% of 65 million people in the UK is 26 million dead! It is, it’s true!!!!

55146 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Moomin, #753 of 1198 🔗

‘Estimated’. But by whom, why don’t they cite a paper or other source?

54826 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to wendyk, 10, #755 of 1198 🔗

‘I argued that it’s far more damaging to someone’s health to not have a job and stress about money and mortgages – which is what will happen if masks are made mandatory’

Bang on

54831 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to kbeanie, 8, #756 of 1198 🔗

Being unemployed reduces a person’s lifespan by 3 years.

54838 ▶▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to JohnB, 2, #757 of 1198 🔗

Bodes well for me then. Got chronically ill at 17, now I’m 27 and still can’t work. Does that mean I’ll have #30lessyears of life I wonder…

I mean…cough…stuff about masks…Bojo…SAGE…cough

54925 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to kbeanie, #758 of 1198 🔗

kbeanie, poverty creates health issues too because of poor diet yet when you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it


54997 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 1, #759 of 1198 🔗

T.P – I think we’ve got it. That’s 5 or 6 nearly identical posts.

54849 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to wendyk, #760 of 1198 🔗

Does anyone know if there’s live coverage somewhere? How I wish I could be there in person.

54923 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to wendyk, -2, #761 of 1198 🔗

When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it


55120 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to wendyk, #762 of 1198 🔗

IMHO Simon Dolan is a true patriot who loves his country. Just read his book, he comes across as a fundamentally decent chap, brave and focused. Not like any of this shitshower of a government.

54823 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 13, #763 of 1198 🔗

Notes from my latest trip to a neighbouring small town:

1) Server in Costa saying not to worry about the 1 per household rule as me + my mum entered together; also stating that a lot of people often take no notice anyway. No masks worn by the two members of staff but were behind screens
2) Loads of people in the beer garden of one of the pubs + plenty of people leaving with takeaway pints
3) Even more people sat on the green + on benches, often in groups, enjoying the weather, having picnics etc
4) Sanitiser was at the front of the two places we went into but weren’t forced to use it upon entering. Also no mask for the man in the other shop, just a screen

So basically a really lovely, *almost* normal experience!

55099 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kbeanie, #764 of 1198 🔗

Not surprised about Costa. When they first reopened the branch in my area, it was very dead as I suspect their draconian antisocial distancing policy had put people off so they had to relax them otherwise people would avoid them like the plague.

54836 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #765 of 1198 🔗

BBC Rethink podcast and podcast trailer is talking about reimagining the world using the pandemic as the opportinity to put in change.

One idea the BBC podcast Rethink is having “fallow” years globally to help our planet. No need for me to say more, my opinion is already known to you because you have a brain.

54922 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Basics, 1, #766 of 1198 🔗

When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it


54926 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to T. Prince, 2, #767 of 1198 🔗

Fallow years – imagine. And the BBC are introducing the idea.

55001 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 2, #768 of 1198 🔗

Seriously – he’s you become a spambot?

54839 Ryan, replying to Ryan, 13, #769 of 1198 🔗

Took a trip to Morrison’s today. Local supermarket where I do a weekly shop.

More face masks in evidence today without a doubt.

Asked to speak to the manager.

Very nice lady.

I told her I did a weekly shop there and I couldn’t wear a face nappy and neither could #2 son (he has very mild asthma).

She said they had still to decide on policy.

I asked her if they would be in breach of disability legislation if they refused entry to those exempt – she didn’t know. I asked her how they would deal with masks wearers harassing non mask wearers – she didn’t know.

Next Friday week will be fun.

54879 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Ryan, 1, #770 of 1198 🔗

Go to Tescos or Lidl they’re it enforcing mask wearing.

55026 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella Donna, #771 of 1198 🔗

I contacted my local Tesco today – they replied no decision taken yet.

54846 Awkward Git, #772 of 1198 🔗

Watch this one from Collin County Texas on how they report covid-19 deaths:


The Collins County televised feed is mixed in with Alex Jones’s comments.

54852 Biker, replying to Biker, 33, #773 of 1198 🔗

I was gonna quit posting because i’m bored of the whole thing now but let me reassure everyone freaking about what will happen with the masks.
The shops and i mean almost every single shop you can think of (can’t vouch for brothels) won’t insist on a mask, most won’t even mention it if you’re not wearing one. The pigs can go fuck themselves, i mean if they even ask you you tell them your exempt and they’ll go away, they won’t even bother you. Here’s the kicker, no one with a mask will say a word to you because they are defeated. Their eyes have become void, they are less than human and the sight of you without your mask will only reinforce what they’ve become.

So one more time for the fucking dreary fuckers who keep saying “what’s gonna happen” fuck all is gonna happen!. This site, like the news like any other site going on a about this bullshit is just keeping the whole thing going. Let it fucking go.
Did i mention nothing is gonna happen if you don’t wear a mask, nothing, zilch, nada, res, nicht, rein, nic, dim byd, absolutely fuck all.

54877 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Biker, 8, #774 of 1198 🔗

The Messiah has returned. Feeling better already.

54884 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Biker, 8, #775 of 1198 🔗

I was feeling a bit despondent today after my shopping expidition but you’re right fuck them, why should I feel sad for them, they are the ones who have been brainwashed not me.

54892 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to Biker, 10, #776 of 1198 🔗

I tend to agree.

Zero fines in the Republic of Sturgeon and I find it hard to believe anybody will be fined in Englandshite either.

It’s too dangerous.

One defeat in court and this all comes crashing down.

54897 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Biker, 4, #777 of 1198 🔗

if you don’t wear a mask, nothing, zilch, nada, res, nicht, rein, nic, dim byd, absolutely fuck all.

For now maybe. But the government is pushing.

54929 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to stewart, 2, #778 of 1198 🔗


54937 ▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to anon, 3, #779 of 1198 🔗


Best answer / question yet.

Apart form getting you in a headlock and forcing one on you, what are they really going to do?
Give them no details / the wrong details.
A fine? Don’t pay it. Become one of the thousands that don’t pay. Ignore all letters. Bin them. Don’t ever reply / argue / employ a lawyer.

Hold your bare and beautiful face up and smile. Look entirely free because you are!

54968 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Little Red Hen, 3, #780 of 1198 🔗

To quote the greatest guitarist of all time Jimi Hendrix “wave your freak flag high”

55051 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Biker, #781 of 1198 🔗


54995 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 2, #782 of 1198 🔗

‘Here’s the kicker, no one with a mask will say a word to you because they are defeated. Their eyes have become void, they are less than human and the sight of you without your mask will only reinforce what they’ve become.’

Priceless. True I’m sure, and brilliantlly written. I’ve missed you Biker!

55066 ▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to TJN, 8, #783 of 1198 🔗

We’ve been at the beach all day – glorious and wholly normal. Swimming, dune sliding, jelly fish catching (all returned…), eating sandy sandwiches. Lots & lots of families.

One couple with masks on – walking in ugly shoes with an ugly dog – and THEY looked like the weird ones!

Angry eyes above their masks, glaring at the rest of humanity; outraged that we were having fun.
I smiled a full beam at them and said, “Isn’t this fresh air GLORIOUS?”
They stalked on.
I was tempted to show them my bum but they didn’t deserve any extra sunshine… 😎

55364 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Little Red Hen, #784 of 1198 🔗

Ha! Off to the beach now for a bit, but I don’t suppose there will be anyone else there till much later, by when I’ll be gone.

Biker makes a really interesting point about people in masks, which I hadn’t thought of – but then again up in Bonny Scotland he’s a week ahead of us, so has had time to observe.

‘Angry eyes above their masks, glaring at the rest of humanity; outraged that we were having fun.’

Yes, the New Puritans. Maybe I need to read up on the old ones – human nature doesn’t change much.

Johnson says it will be all over by Christmas. Probably they’ll cancel Christmas.

54855 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 36, #785 of 1198 🔗

Have a great and well-deserved holiday Toby, and thanks for including my comment in yesterday’s update!

A good day today – I actually managed to secure a part-time job in a supermarket! I never thought I’d get part-time work during these economic dire straits. Let’s hope I can keep the job. My bf also got good results in his uni exams – I was pleased for him, because he was very worried about how online exams would affect his marks.

Also took another trip into town – the Body Shop have started allowing customers to try testers again, and have stopped forcing hand sanitiser on customers. I also saw a café worker with a plate of food samples outside the door. The streets were heaving and one car park was totally full.

My bf and I are going for a meal at a restaurant tonight (first restaurant trip since late February!) to celebrate our good news so we will see how that goes.

54857 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Poppy, 10, #786 of 1198 🔗

Good for you two!

55102 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, #787 of 1198 🔗

Congratulations to you and enjoy your meal out with your boyfriend!

55245 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Poppy, 1, #788 of 1198 🔗

Very happy for you both

54858 gina, replying to gina, 18, #789 of 1198 🔗

tried to get a half in four of our local free houses this afternoon. Was asked for my details and when I declined was refused service in all of them, even the one that a week ago had been happy to serve me a dinner and a beer without needing to know my name and telephone number.
One pub had a clip board on the bar, where presumably anyone who wished could have a good old gander at who was in, another said, when I asked if they wanted my details, that they were going to ask me for them while they pulled my pint.
All were surprised when I said I wouldn’t give my details. All said ‘it was the law’ and even when I told them it wasn’t they said they still had to have them before they could serve me.
North Norfolk County Council and their Covid Enforcement Agents have been round to see them all this past week, apparently.
I have written to North Norfolk District Council to ask them why they have misinformed publicans of the legal requirements.

54870 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to gina, 5, #790 of 1198 🔗

Suggest you print out https://www.gov.uk/guidance/maintaining-records-of-staff-customers-and-visitors-to-support-nhs-test-and-trace where it says If someone does not wish to share their details, or provides incorrect information

54890 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to arfurmo, 4, #791 of 1198 🔗

I knew it was voluntary to give contact details but I hadn’t realised that:

If a customer or visitor informs you that they do not want their details shared for the purposes of NHS Test and Trace, they can choose to opt out, and if they do so you should not share their information used for booking purposes with NHS Test and Trace.

So they’re not allowed to use your credit card details if you tell them not to! Mind you, you’d never know if they did!

55017 ▶▶▶▶ gina, replying to Edna, #792 of 1198 🔗

Its not voluntary round here – in north norfolk. No details, no service.

55013 ▶▶▶ gina, replying to arfurmo, #793 of 1198 🔗

Yes, thanks for this

54872 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to gina, 1, #794 of 1198 🔗

We went out to lunch to a pub and were asked for a name and phone number, yes I know we shouldn’t have but call it desperation. We could have given a false info but paying by credit card would have revealed the lie.

54876 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #795 of 1198 🔗

Yes but you give the name Jane Doe as you enter and when you pay at the bar with your credit card saying Samantha Fox, refer to from link posted above “The accuracy of the information provided will be the responsibility of the individual who provides it. You do not have to verify an individual’s identity for NHS Test and Trace purposes.”

54998 ▶▶▶ MrPudgy, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #796 of 1198 🔗

We have been using cash exclusively since places have been saying contactless preferred!

55004 ▶▶▶ gina, replying to Tom Blackburn, #798 of 1198 🔗

Thanks for the link. Useful.

54903 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to gina, 3, #799 of 1198 🔗

Let them pull your beer, then refuse to give details.

A small hit in the pocket often brings people back to their senses.

55029 ▶▶▶ gina, replying to Dave #KBF, #800 of 1198 🔗

Ah yes – I should have done exactly that but truth to tell I was having a hard job maintaining my cool while being told it was the law.

55107 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to gina, #801 of 1198 🔗

Tonight Matthew I am gonna be Matinna Hande-Kooche, yes it’s German.

55207 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Two-Six, #802 of 1198 🔗

Looks more like Dutch to me. They seem to like their double vowels.

54860 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 22, #803 of 1198 🔗

Situation report: Llangollen, North Wales. Aldis – about 10% mask wearers, younger or older women (and one despondent child forced into a mask by her young masked mother). Town – brimming with life. Shops open, cafes thriving (open air seating). Almost zero masks. No awkward social distancing. Riverfront – counted 150-200 people. Only two masks (one teenage boy who wore his like a fashion statement, and a lad on a bike wearing a grimy one). Felt completely normal. People brushing past each other along the narrow walkway. Nice to see the town thriving once more – last few months it’s been a ghost town.

54863 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #804 of 1198 🔗

All the pubs (3) in my village closed inside and out. The Local Authority have set such stringent and pedantic rules for opening that they are impossible to comply with.

If they did open they know the Stasi would be straight round to close them down again


55168 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cecil B, #805 of 1198 🔗

Ghastly councils ghastly snitchers.

54881 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mr Dee, #806 of 1198 🔗

Standing on the bridge on Castle Street is one of my favourite places.

55039 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sam Vimes, #807 of 1198 🔗

About two weeks ago, before the restrictions loosened in Wales , there were kids, about 20 of them, congregating at that bridge, and a few of them jumping off into the swirling Dee below . Not suicidal, I hasten to add – all in the name of fun! And flagrantly ignoring all lockdown rules! Good on them.

54900 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #808 of 1198 🔗

Lets hope Wales are not forced down the muzzles in shops route.

Llangollen is a lovely town, glad people are enjoying the area.

54990 ▶▶▶ MrPudgy, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #809 of 1198 🔗


At last something sensible from Drakeford. He says you would have to meet tens of thousands of people to be likely to come across anyone positive for Covid!

54868 Sarigan, 2, #811 of 1198 🔗
54885 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 16, #812 of 1198 🔗

The misses has just come home with a letter from the council, saying “Avoid a local lockdown, wear masks now, don’t wait till next Friday, don’t breathe, don’t walk” and some other shit. And that must pre-date Boris’s local powers announcement.
Apparently there is an increase in “infections”. Guess what we have in the middle of the town centre? Yes, a lovely testing station….

54895 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #813 of 1198 🔗

Hi Vimes

Do you mind saying which town?

54945 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dave #KBF, #814 of 1198 🔗

Would like to, but I dont want anything linking back to the misses.

55316 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sam Vimes, #815 of 1198 🔗

No problem.

54896 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #816 of 1198 🔗

This suggests that local authorities were tipped off about their new powers in advance. Found out today that in South Africa not wearing a mask anywhere in public is punishable by a custodial sentence of up to 6 months. Shows just how desperate the authorities are, and how important this issue is to them. I would not at all be surprised to see this policy implemented worldwide before the end of the year.

54911 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #817 of 1198 🔗

Well that’s yet another reason to stay away from the town centre!

54912 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #818 of 1198 🔗


54921 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sam Vimes, #819 of 1198 🔗

When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it


55019 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to T. Prince, 3, #820 of 1198 🔗

So, how many times has this been posted now?

54887 TJN, replying to TJN, 20, #821 of 1198 🔗

Just had a polite email reply from Chistopher Chope MP:

Thank you for your recent email and for your support for my opinions on the use of facemasks.  I shall continue to put pressure on the Government on this issue and appreciate your encouragement.
With best wishes,
Chris Chope

Good man. There are some MPs fit to sit on those green benches.

I expect others here who have written to him will get something similar. I’ve written twice to my own MP on this, as well as copying the Chope and Swayne emails, but heard nothing.

55056 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to TJN, #822 of 1198 🔗

I also had a very polite response from him. He pointed out that I should get in touch with my own MP. Pointless, as she still hasn’t resonded to the e-mail I sent her two months ago.

55672 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to kh1485, #823 of 1198 🔗

I said on my email to him that I’d contacted my MP. So we have had different replies, which means he’s taken to the time to read our emails and to give individual replies. Good man.

I don’t agree with upskirting of course, but I did think he was right to intervene on that Friday afternoon a couple of years ago.

54893 TJN, replying to TJN, 7, #824 of 1198 🔗

Couple of technical questions, regarding England shopping muzzles.

First, are they supposed to be worn in enclosed shopping centres (e.g. with a roof) or just when entering a shop?

Second, is there any further guidance on the exemption owing to, as the government website puts it: ‘if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress’.

What constitutes ‘severe distress’? It seems subjective to me. How do you prove ‘severe distress’?

The fact that we here have all been talking about it so much is indicative that it’s already causing us ‘severe distress’ – but I wonder if sufficient ‘severe distress’.

54899 ▶▶ RickH, replying to TJN, 6, #825 of 1198 🔗

I reckon just asking the questions gives the answer : it’s all a load of nonsensical bollocks.

Which is probably what you had in mind when asking.

Just be sympathetic to the poor ****ers who have to ask you stupid questions : just say ‘I’m exempt – Hypoxia and Hypocapnia’.

54951 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to RickH, 3, #826 of 1198 🔗

Yes, it’s all bollocks of course. But they are also serious questions. I’d like to know exactly where we are by next Friday.

I’ve been thinking about it, and I don’t see much point in outright confrontation in the early days. Rather lots of people, working almost below the radar as it were, not wearing muzzles, and setting an example to others who are tempted.

For example, if I’m challenged walking into a shopping centre, rather than an actual shop, can I point to anything that says I. don’t need a muzzle?

Likewise on distress, I guess I don’t have to justify it, by self harming or anything.

I’m guessing the plod will have guidelines on how to act, which will probably be based upon if someone merely says they are distressed, and aren’t causing any other trouble, they are to be allowed on their way.

In my view, in the first few days that will be job done.

54996 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to TJN, 2, #827 of 1198 🔗

In Scotland masks are required in shopping centres. The police have stated today that since masks were made mandatory they have not given out any fines for non complience.

I think it’s mainly because compliance has been high but I also don’t think the police have been bothering to enforce it.

55033 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nobody2020, #828 of 1198 🔗


No fines – that must be the result of a policy not to enforce.

55315 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to TJN, #829 of 1198 🔗

I think the police have better things to do:

This is what Lincolnshire Police are saying how they will deal with cv19 related enforcement, I assume other forces are acting similar.

“Covid-19 police regulations

Policing will adopt a four-phase approach

Engage – we will initially encourage voluntary compliance.

Explain – we will stress the risks to public health and to the NHS. Educate people about the risks and the wider social factors.

Encourage – we will seek compliance and emphasise the benefits to the NHS by staying at home, how this can save lives and reduce the risk for more vulnerable people in society.

Enforce – we will direct you to return to the place where you live. This may include providing reasonable instruction of the route by which you are required to return. We may also remove you to the place where you live, using reasonable force where it is a necessary and proportionate means of ensuring compliance.

We will make sensible decisions, employ judgement and continue to use other powers.

Enforcement will be a last resort

55311 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to TJN, 1, #830 of 1198 🔗

If wearing a mask or the thought of wearing a mask causes you distress, don’t wear one.

Only you can measure if you are distressed.

If / when confronted explain that you have a medical issue, which prevents you from wearing a mask. If they ask what the condition is calmly tell whoever is asking that information is personal.

This is the tactic I will be using.

I do not particularly want to wear a lanyard with a badge saying I have an issue.

55408 ▶▶▶ End of Tether, replying to Dave #KBF, #831 of 1198 🔗

The Apple Store is not allowing anyone through the door without a mask on, with no exceptions. Not even medical reasons.

55676 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to End of Tether, #832 of 1198 🔗

Yep, seen that here. Fine, it’s all massively overpriced anyway, and the Apple laptop I’m typing this on is the most buggy thing I’ve ever had.

55674 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Dave #KBF, #833 of 1198 🔗

Pretty well the same as me – if asked I’ll just say I’m exempt, and nothing else. If the plod ask I’ll say severe distress, and smile.

54898 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 14, #834 of 1198 🔗

Rod Liddle in the Spectator:

The counter-argument — the no-mask argument — would have to insist that almost the entire world got it completely wrong, over-reacted, wrecked economies for no good reason. Every government, every scientific organisation of note, all of them got it wrong: only we were right. That is a stretch too far for me, I’m afraid.

I don’t know what’s happening. There was a time, once, when I’m sure Rod Liddle would have been perfectly happy to conclude that almost the entire world had got something wrong. Does Rod no longer believe what George Bernard Shaw said?

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

54905 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #835 of 1198 🔗

Liddle is still the duggie he always was 🙂 Marks for consistency, not intelligence.

His logic is that repeating patent rubbish makes it truth. Obviously Groupthink, Media Control and Chinese Whispers are beyond his comprehension.

54906 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #836 of 1198 🔗

What a preposterous argument, but probably one that lots of people agree with.

If it’s so obvious that they all got it right, it should be easy to explain why they were right and provide evidence, beyond saying “everyone else did it”. Like more deaths, for example. So why doesn’t he?

54930 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Barney McGrew, #837 of 1198 🔗

Got what wrong? When there are no parameters set and no clear objectives then how can anybody tell if the actions taken or the end results were right or wrong?

54960 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #838 of 1198 🔗

Indeed, and hasn’t he read the story of the Emperor’s New Clothes? Someone wrote that for a reason. Are lemmings his favourite animal?

Anyway, regardless of whether other countries got it “right”, does he have no mind of his own with which to evaluate the evidence and form a view?

55178 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Julian, #839 of 1198 🔗

No definitely not…..

55137 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #840 of 1198 🔗

Maybe someone should quote Schiller to him:
“Reason has only ever been with the few.”

55181 ▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #841 of 1198 🔗

This is the kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place, and the kind of thinking that will ensure that nobody ever asks the right questions in any inquiry.

We went into lockdown (at least partly) because Italy, France, Spain and Germany had done it. So it must have been right. Germany and France did it because Italy and Spain had done it. Spain did it because Italy had done it. The US then did it because the UK, Germany, France, Spain and Italy had done it. So it can’t be wrong! Italy did it because China had done it. Hmmm. Never mind, moving on…

The mass mainstream and social media hysteria, peddling lockdown started in early March and has continued since.

But it’s a fear feedback loop: if other countries are scared, then I should be scared and the government must protect me; if the government has imposed such draconian measures, then this must be serious, so I must continue to be protected by the government; if the government still think it’s too dangerous for my son to hug his granny, then it must still be terrifying; why is the government not doing more to protect me from this deadly virus that must be awful because of all the things we have had to do to protect ourselves from it?

And so on.

I don’t like Rod Liddle much, but I often agree with him and he’s usually quite straight thinking. Unfortunately he seems to be caught in the feedback loop.

55191 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #842 of 1198 🔗

You have to be a moron to swallow the idea that masks are needed now,how many months into this and not at the beginning.You have to wear one shopping but not in the pub.how can adults swallow this whole.everyday I feel more like Winston Smith

55241 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Barney McGrew, #843 of 1198 🔗

Liddle is right that groups tend to make better decisions than individuals when there is a high degree of uncertainty. But only if the group hasn’t been previously brainwashed with a tonne of bullshit.

54904 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 16, #844 of 1198 🔗

Having spent the day at Legoland with my 6-year-old, I can honestly say that there is no more pathetic a sight than grown adults riding a rollercoaster wearing masks.

And having studied said mask-wearers throughout the day (an alarmingly large number, including children), I would estimate that they fiddle with them, unhook them or push them up and down about once every 30 seconds. I genuinely believe they will contribute to viral spread, not reduce it. Just as Jenny Harries so sensibly said, back in March.

55206 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #845 of 1198 🔗

People fiddle with them because mask-wearing is so unnatural for the body, as well as being uncomfortable!

54916 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 1, #846 of 1198 🔗

Toby please include this on your next daily round up and send to any allies that you may have in the media or government

When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it


54931 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to T. Prince, 2, #847 of 1198 🔗

Channel not available.

Just seen that you’ve been spamming this link. What’s the game?

54934 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to T. Prince, #848 of 1198 🔗

Seems to have disappeared..?

54918 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 5, #849 of 1198 🔗

Just received an email from Jet2holidays in preparation for next week. They have updated their website and one of the frequently asked questions is “I can’t wear a face mask, what can I do?” Answer-if you have a medical condition which means you can’t wear a mask, you don’t have to. See the latest government advice.

54936 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Margaret, #850 of 1198 🔗

But that’s weasel words. It doesn’t define “having a medical condition”. Does it need to be confirmed by a doctor?

54940 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Barney McGrew, #851 of 1198 🔗

No, doctors are not required to write exemption notes according to the Department of Health and Social Care. . Think something has been posted here on this subject recently. The list of exemptions are the same as for public transport and shops.

55105 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #852 of 1198 🔗

No one is allowed to access you medical history – its protected by medical confidentiality and privacy laws.

55305 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bart Simpson, #853 of 1198 🔗

So how can there be a £100 fine?

55440 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Barney McGrew, #854 of 1198 🔗

That’s a good question but it looks like its not really being enforced.

54967 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Margaret, 6, #855 of 1198 🔗

All the airlines are between a rock and a hard place. They have to cater for people and pussies. I came down to Spain a week ago – the flight was the least of the problem….
Avoid Spain….
They have achieved herd insanity!!!!

54919 MDH, replying to MDH, 17, #856 of 1198 🔗

Quick update from the mean streets of London SW16. Out for my evening walk, a young (unmasked) couple (20s or 30s) were walking towards me and very quickly swerved off the pavement and into the road. I’m afraid I made the mistake of saying “Don’t worry, it’s over”. Uh-oh. The young man told me not only wasn’t it over, but it was people like me that meant there would be a second spike in October.

He worked in the theatre and had been laid off until January. There won’t be a second spike, I assured him. His girlfriend had continued walking purposefully away, obviously fearing confrontation.

I didn’t have the heart nor energy to point out that my OH and I are pretty solid patrons of theatre and performing arts and have already given large sums of money to various corona funds.

Broadly speaking, only one of us can be right. If he is right, we will all be laid up in October and many more will be dead. In which case, it’s game over.

If I’m correct, then until people working in the arts accept that the only way there is going to be an arts sector after October is if those working in it start insisting that social distancing, masks, etc, are binned and patrons are encouraged to take their chances in the playhouse it’s game over.

I found it most dispiriting after a very rough few days. Last night I ventured to share the very reasonable Spectator editorial comment this week on Facebook and got plenty of abuse for my troubles.

Gratifyingly, a couple of friends have messaged privately to offer support and confirm that I’m correct in my sceptical take. But faced with a barrage of aggressive conformity it’s hard to keep the faith.

54935 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MDH, 12, #857 of 1198 🔗

A post that highlights some key idiocies.

The Arts and Entertainment sectors – both professional and amateur – are being killed by this poisonous myth. As is the ‘Hospitality’ sector.

I know from close personal contacts, for instance, that ballet dancers are being allowed to rehearse in small groups *wearing masks* FFS – but with little hope even of a Christmas season. This for an (alleged) virus that is present in 1 in 4000 (and possibly now 10000) of the population. Meanwhile, orchestras and choirs – massively important social glue – in both amateur and professional contexts – are being prevented from their raison d’etre – rehearsal and performance.

The actions causing this are criminal at the highest level, and its fabricators – whether wilful or simply band-waggonning – should not be let off the hook. They belong in a circle of hell adjacent to the fellow-travellers of Nazi-ism in the 1930s an 40s. No excuses.

54939 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to MDH, 6, #858 of 1198 🔗

“only one of us can be right”

I don’t agree. You are right that there will not be a genuine spike. But there will be a fake spike, so he is also right.

54975 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to MDH, 3, #859 of 1198 🔗

October’s probably a bit early for a covid sequel.
(I hope so – holiday in Portugal booked in the half term). But it is a coronavirus so a winter re-tread is on the cards – unless we have herd immunity.
I know not if we are there, but if so that’s by accident rather than design, having missed the nice summer (non flu season) window for the fit to get out and about and infected, and bullet-proof the wider population.
But no. The plan instead is to ‘eradicate the virus’ – an airborne/respiratory highly contageous pathogen with relatively low lethality and asymptomatic infection in many, it seems. Trying to control the wind with iron railings makes more sense.

55015 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to GetaGrip, #860 of 1198 🔗

Is it really ‘highly contagious’ ?

55072 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 1, #861 of 1198 🔗

Good point. There’s precious little evidence as it fades away ‘before your very eyes’.

[https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-death-data-in-england-daily-update/ ]

Why are people listening to characters whose only notable quality is to be so spectacularly wrong?

… an when they have been right (as originally on masks), they then change tack in order to *be* wrong to please their masters rather than the truth.

55114 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #862 of 1198 🔗

Even if it is highly contagious it doesn’t seem very potent.

55197 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to GetaGrip, 2, #863 of 1198 🔗

If it is possible to eliminate Covid then why have they not managed to eliminate the common cold, which is also a coronavirus? Because you can’t…

55184 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to MDH, #864 of 1198 🔗

Who cares what people on facebook say….just tell them to FO.

54920 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #865 of 1198 🔗

10k+ guardian comments reacting to ‘normal by Christmas”. I have not read them all but don’t think anyone is noticing the last time the British public were told it will all be over by Christmas it wasn’t. A large amount of dissent actually, not what I expected.


54943 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Basics, 5, #866 of 1198 🔗

Yeah, but looking at the first comment, I see that this is sceptic-compatible and gets 54 upvotes. But the first bedwetter reply gets 161 upvotes. And so it goes on. Clearly there are a lot of Guardian readers who want the virus to be more dangerous than it actually is.

54956 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #867 of 1198 🔗

1/3 sceptic support on that site is not bad!

54958 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #868 of 1198 🔗

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a sceptical comment on there…

55010 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, #869 of 1198 🔗

It’s amazingly good ! 🙂

54957 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #870 of 1198 🔗

a lot of Guardian readers who want the virus to be more dangerous than it actually is”

Yup, a lot of deranged people on this planet, or people whose idea of life is very different from mine.

55111 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 2, #871 of 1198 🔗

The Guardian readers are the same people as all these on social media with FBPE next to their name. They want it to be more dangerous than it is as they believe if it is then it will force Brexit to be cancelled and we will have to rejoin the EU, and create a new normal for their socialist utopia.

55363 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, #872 of 1198 🔗

Some of them probably. I’m more inclined to think it’s the utopia bit that appeals most. Funny kind of utopia. Don’t want to live in it.

I do think that on the part of some it’s a desire for drama in their lives.

All highly unhealthy, and the antithesis of life as I see it. Very sad.

We need a new country.

55238 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #873 of 1198 🔗

I have to thank someone in the Grad comments for finding my way here. It was via a link to Hector Drummond or OffG but it shows that sceptics contributing there isn’t a waste of time!

55236 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #874 of 1198 🔗

I like this one:
“Let’s Get Ready”
Another useless meaningless slogan, however, if we are going to be using three word slogans, let’s at least be truthful.
Road to Nowhere.

54924 RickH, replying to RickH, 14, #875 of 1198 🔗

I’ve been thinking further about all the actual data and evidence relating to Covid-19. This was prompted by the latest exposure of PHE’s miscounting that has been largely passed over in the mainsteam media – even tho’ it has massive implications about the data fed to the public.

Even considering the age and vulnerability gradient in mortality – and excluding the wilder shores of conspiracy re. its origins – when you assemble the actual data (as opposed to the fabricated data in death registration), the true picture is of a very ordinary virus that may have played some part in the level of mortality of 2019/20 – which was actually not particularly excessive when the exagerrations ae stripped away.

The absurdity of the panicdemic grows. It would be good if this kills the story.

55007 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #876 of 1198 🔗

Not often that the wilder shores of conspiracy re. its origins include a Nobel laureate …

55383 ▶▶ wendy, replying to RickH, #877 of 1198 🔗

A lot of angry comments in the telegraph under their article. Some mention it’s what Lockdown Sceptics and Toby have been saying for months but been getting shouted down. If only Boris would come clean and sack Neil Ferguson. I also don’t think it looks good for how intelligent Dominic Cummings is supposed to be. He should have been reviewing all the science, isn’t that what he claims to be good at.

54933 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 20, #878 of 1198 🔗

“There is a very significant chance that it [coronavirus] comes back in force,” Vallance said. “Everyone that I’ve spoken to thinks it’s highly likely that this disease will continue to circulate and will come back in waves. And therefore the measures of reducing contact to reduce spread, the sorts of social distancing measures that we’ve talked about, and the hygiene measures that go along with that, will be necessary.”

Funny isn’t it, how ‘the science’ eventually becomes “ Everyone that I’ve spoken to thinks it’s highly likely that…” ? Sounds like a man in a pub.

That’s pretty much what science is these days. People with an opinion doing research to attempt to confirm that opinion i.e. pseudoscience.

54955 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #879 of 1198 🔗

Where’s the data? He gets paid a lot of money, him and his big team. Where are the studies of true IFR, natural immunity, how it spreads? At the start I can understand they were cagey and caveating things, but months later what the hell have they been doing? They should have been doing studies themselves, commissioning them, poring over other ones.

They really are scum, milking it for all its worth because it makes them important.

And the politicians and journalists ought to be grilling the life out of him, making sure his story stands up, not hiding behind him when it suits or saying “Oh yes Mr Vallance, oh dear how terrible”. Bastards the lot of them.

55121 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, #880 of 1198 🔗


54961 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #881 of 1198 🔗

Sounds like a prediction by Septic Peg.

55000 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #882 of 1198 🔗

“Everyone that I’ve spoken to thinks it’s highly likely that this disease will continue to circulate and will come back in waves.”

So like cold’s and flu then

55064 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #883 of 1198 🔗

Pre… cisely.

Notice the continuing lack of a sense of scale that these ‘scientists’ suggests that they aren’t very good scientists in the general sense of having a real and wider ‘sense’ of scientific enterprise – as opposed to digging away in a ditch.

55076 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to RickH, 3, #884 of 1198 🔗

There’re not ‘scientists’ Rick, snake oil salesmen and tea leaf readers

55242 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to RickH, 1, #885 of 1198 🔗

Their 15 minutes of fame has gone to their heads

55189 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #886 of 1198 🔗

So is he saying that social distancing etc will have to carry on forever? Does he really think that is realistic and sustainable???

55221 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #887 of 1198 🔗

Science has become like The Man in the Sky or the Oracle at Delphi.

Most people don’t understand that science is a process, not the uttering of a someone labelled a “scientist”.

When I hear someone say “The science says…” I just want to slap them..

55232 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #888 of 1198 🔗

Vallance is less credible each day that passes.

55239 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #889 of 1198 🔗

In which case, you learn to live with it. Completely changing everyone’s way of life is not living with it. It is the equivalent of the country hiding under the bed. The logical way of dealing with a virus which is harmless to most but dangerous to a well-defined subset of society would be to protect the vulnerable, while letting the virus pass through the rest of the population and letting them develop immunity. This idea that we can virtually stop society while waiting for a vaccine that would normally take many years to develop is complete insanity and I cannot understand why so many governments around the world are unable to realise that simple fact.

54938 anon, 1, #890 of 1198 🔗

wow halfway through this and if it’s been posted before my humble apologies


v interested in commenters’ opinions (not 77th thanks)

it is ~25 mins long

54944 Jonathan, replying to Jonathan, 2, #891 of 1198 🔗

Lockdown lovers keep quoting this figure of 65,000 excess deaths published on June 30th. We can see that the covid panic has been a massive overreaction. What is the explanation for the excess deaths?

54947 ▶▶ anon, replying to Jonathan, 8, #892 of 1198 🔗

they are lying.

that pretty much explains it

54982 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to anon, #893 of 1198 🔗

Lying, yes nut a bit more I’m afraid….

When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it. Covers the excess death issue too…..figures being fiddled.

54948 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Jonathan, 11, #894 of 1198 🔗

To start with:

Low mortality in the preceding two years’ mild winters, leading to a rich harvest this year.

Concentrating infected people in hospitals to spread it around to each other and staff – it’s nosocomial.

Hospitals then being cleared of old patients who would previously have been kept alive now dying naturally.

Infected old people carrying the infection into old folks’ homes.

Poor treatment of Covid to start with e.g. inappropriate use of ventilators.

Early results from the economic catastrophe, lack of medical treatment for other illnesses, people staying away from hospitals out of fear or not wanting to burden the overstretched heroes, suicides, etc.

And following today’s revelations are we absolutely sure that some of these deaths aren’t double-counted, fake, non-existent?

“Excess deaths” doesn’t really mean very much if they’re mainly >80 years old and their demise has just been brought forward a couple of months. It’s a ‘philosophical’ disease.

54983 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Barney McGrew, #895 of 1198 🔗

When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it. Covers the excess death issue too…..figures being fiddled.

55225 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to T. Prince, 1, #896 of 1198 🔗

And then they’re surprised people have lost faith in experts.

54953 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan, 7, #897 of 1198 🔗

Well, all cause motrtality for England and Wales, available here:

2020 up to July 3rd 344,000
5 year average for same period 290,000

So you could argue that the difference was covid, but you also need to factor in the deaths caused by lockdown (due to people not getting to hospital when they should)

Excess deaths are a bit more of a grey area

They’ve been very enthusiastic in attributing deaths to covid, though one still needs to recognise there’s been an increase in mortality

Also I don’t know if the 290,000 is population adjusted. If not then the increase is not as great because the population has increased.

As someone posted here earlier:

The one thing that is rarely identified is that there was a much higher population of the vulnerable, because of the numbers that survived 2018/2019 – which was a season of remarkably low infection. Such a population was inevitably susceptible to the higher level of infection in 2019/20.
In fact, if the ‘all cause’ mortality of those two seasons is averaged, it is almost exactly at the longer term (27 year) mean adjusted for population.

ONS weekly mortality data, corrected for population.  You will find a full examination at :

Ultimately the impact on mortality taken in the context of the last half century is fairly minor, and doesn’t in my view justify the measures taken

54969 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan, 6, #898 of 1198 🔗

UK Column has a big article on this.Basically the excess deaths are due to the lockdown itself and the government policies that it entailed.

54981 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Jonathan, #899 of 1198 🔗

When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it. Covers the excess death issue too…..figures being fiddled.


55008 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to T. Prince, 1, #900 of 1198 🔗

All nonsense on stilts – and with no scientific basis.

Anybody noticed how the Lock-Up narrative and justification shifts its ground whenever there’s a media opportunity to appear full of portentious wisdom (as opposed to being simply full of magical shit).

What academics need to get their heads around is the damage being done to their institutions and serious academic enterprise by this rehearsal of posy nonsense.

55073 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to RickH, 1, #901 of 1198 🔗

Spot on Rick just as ‘economists’ made fools of themselves during the Brexit debacle…

54984 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan, 5, #902 of 1198 🔗

The term ‘excess deaths’ is a nonsense. It presumes that there is a ‘correct’ or ‘normal’ level of deaths. Which is bollocks – the level of mortality between years varies in both random and systematic ways. But there is no ‘normal’. What there is – is variation from a long term mean or median, which gives an idea (over a sufficient span) of simply what the average is. Which is a piece of contextual information. Calculations lbased on, for instance, the’five year moving average’ is a short-term confection – not an ‘ought to be’.

In essence, ‘excess deaths’ are what I’ve called a ‘Ferguson Number’ – i.e. the error of a model’s projection when compared with the emerging reality. It doesn’t indicate ‘excess’ – it indicates the inaccuracy of a forecast.

The CEBM group has shown how ‘excess deaths’ vary significantly according to the statistical calculation used.

In the current context, the term has been used simply to scare the shit out of a gullible populace rather than to inform.

55231 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to RickH, #903 of 1198 🔗

Did they call them ‘excess deaths’ in 2017 when they had 28000 die from the flu

55125 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jonathan, 2, #904 of 1198 🔗

tell him we aren’t doing too badly so far as we have to have another 585000 more deaths this year to catch up with last year.

55202 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Jonathan, 3, #905 of 1198 🔗

Well, the official COVID death toll is 45,000. So if excess deaths are 65,000, then the government’s policies have killed at least 20,000 extra people. And government policy probably killed a good proportion of the 45,000, when they insanely moved infected old people from hospitals into care homes.

55230 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stewart, 2, #906 of 1198 🔗

And witheld medial care for everyone else!

55370 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Jonathan, #907 of 1198 🔗

Just thought of another factor. The CDC says:
Excess deaths are typically defined as the difference between the observed numbers of deaths in specific time periods and expected numbers of deaths in the same time periods.”
Clearly, if a respiratory epidemic appears late in the year, its result will be exaggerated compared to one that appears in winter. With Covid, we may have ‘created’ the epidemic anyway through abnormal policies (bringing infected people into hospitals even if they didn’t need to be, then shipping infected people out of hospitals into care homes, etc.) so by timing this the way we did, we have exaggerated it through a statistical quirk.

54950 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #908 of 1198 🔗

Downloadable mask-free signs for shops.
Great idea!

There’s also a letter for your MP.

54993 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #909 of 1198 🔗

I get a message saying the website has a virus –

Anyone else getting this ?

55101 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #910 of 1198 🔗

Spectre is a processor flaw that allows your computer to be exploited. It came out at the end of 2017, if you’re running Windows have you got the latest updates installed, as there was a fix release after discovery.

55325 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #911 of 1198 🔗

Yep, up to date thanks skipper.

55003 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Cheezilla, #912 of 1198 🔗

Thanks. Letter sent. Note typo towards the end : “their” not “there”!

55229 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fiat, #913 of 1198 🔗

Well spotted!

54952 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 29, #914 of 1198 🔗

Just taking bus home from work – In North London- no one wearing a mask. Not a peep out of driver. Cannot tell you how lovely it is to see people’s faces and to have them acknowledge and smile at you. It makes me feel human.

54962 ▶▶ anon, replying to Telpin, 6, #915 of 1198 🔗

the tide is turning

54964 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Telpin, 8, #916 of 1198 🔗

Pretty much how it’ll be when they’re ‘mandatory’ in shops I imagine. I saw something similar about trains in which someone said they’d barely seen anyone wearing masks in their carriage

55199 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to kbeanie, 3, #917 of 1198 🔗

I know someone who is a ‘train steward’. She has been expressly ordered not to mention mask wearing to anyone. Once you’re on the train, unless BT police board, no-one’s going to worry you – except zealots.

54965 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Telpin, 2, #918 of 1198 🔗

I like the sound of that! How many people on the bus?

55354 ▶▶ annie, replying to Telpin, #919 of 1198 🔗

Telpin, you cheer me immeasurably.

54954 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #920 of 1198 🔗

From the Grad:

Rochdale has brought in measures to try to prevent the spread of Covid-19 and avoid a localised lockdown.
It is the second town in north-west England to make the move, after Blackburn with Darwen introduced new rules on 14 July as cases increased.
Rochdale residents are being urged to wear face coverings in shops – before compulsory measures come into force in England on 24 July – and to limit visitors to two people.
Andrea Fallon, Rochdale borough council’s public health director, said: “The fight against coronavirus is not over. Although lockdown measures are being relaxed across the country, we can see from our local data that we need to remain vigilant to the threat posed by the disease.
“We have increased testing and that has shown us that we need to take action and ask everyone to help keep our infection rate down.”
The local authority will review the advice in a fortnight.


54963 ▶▶ anon, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #921 of 1198 🔗

just ignore it

54966 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to anon, 2, #922 of 1198 🔗


55142 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to anon, #923 of 1198 🔗

As long as you don’t live in Rochdale. If you do – be afraid.

55222 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to anon, #924 of 1198 🔗

I don’t live in Rochdale – but I would ignore it anyway.
It’s a symptom though!

54973 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #925 of 1198 🔗

Increased testing = more positive results

Who knew?!

55077 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #926 of 1198 🔗

Increased testing, more false positives!

55173 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to nowhereman, 1, #927 of 1198 🔗

…and more personal-data-harvesting!

55083 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Cheezilla, #928 of 1198 🔗

I thought our politicians had never heard of Rochdale.

55226 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bugle, 1, #929 of 1198 🔗

I read the news today, oh boy
Four thousand holes in Blackburn, Lancashire
And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall

55371 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Bugle, #930 of 1198 🔗

Full of normal people – or as Labour PM Gordon Brown called them “bigoted” https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=jFl_evwML2M

55193 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, #931 of 1198 🔗

Local authorities are useless, always have been so expect fuck ups all over the place. Remember they’re populated by frustrated under-achievers who strut because they could never do anything.

54970 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 25, #932 of 1198 🔗

So I wanted to ask about something that’s been bothering me for quite a while; something I don’t think I can post elsewhere without accusations of selfishness being thrown around…

In normal times, we’re not responsible for the health of others. Obviously we have common sense things like not sneezing on people, licking their faces or smearing snot all over their hands etc etc. But now we’re expected to not only think about our own health, we have to be ‘alert’ on behalf of others? I know in certain situations we do this to an extent anyway, like driving safely to avoid injury (maybe that’s different as it’s injury based, an obvious danger etc?). But this whole situation now just seems totally alien! I’m all for caring about others…but it feels like I’m having to act like I’m a leper in order to achieve this right now…?!

Please tell me I’m not a crazy selfish bitch…

54979 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to kbeanie, 12, #933 of 1198 🔗

You’re definitely not k. What happened to personal responsibility? But we are dealing with stupid people now-I said to a neighbor that the wearing of masks should be limited to the vulnerable, not a blanket approach for the fit and healthy. He said that ‘that’s discrimination, if one has to wear them we all should’(!) I said if that’s the case, shouldn’t we all have to wear crash helmets when outside so that we don’t discriminate against motorcyclists? I added that as you’ve got more chance of being killed by a falling chimney pot than Covid, then maybe……..

54986 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to T. Prince, 8, #934 of 1198 🔗

And I hope all his dining chairs are fitted with safety belts!

54991 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to T. Prince, 7, #935 of 1198 🔗

As a 27 year old, I’m pretty sure I’m 100 times more likely to die in a car crash than of Covid, even with my ongoing health issues (health issues that don’t put me in the vulnerable group + obviously no one wants to get ill anyway). But I still go out in cars

55011 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to kbeanie, 3, #936 of 1198 🔗

Spot on

54987 ▶▶ Julian, replying to kbeanie, 11, #937 of 1198 🔗

Well, most people are pretty selfish, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Most people, especially in rich countries, drive cars, pollute, some say they exploit the poor, want to pay less tax so they have money to spend on themselves and their luxuries, don’t give all their money to charity. They want to enjoy life, and some of that enjoyment impinges on others.

Regarding this virus it was obviously early on who was most vulnerable. It should have been up to individuals to decide the level of risk they were prepared to accept. Some people at low risk might have chosen to hide away. Others at higher risk might not have wanted to live a life of being locked up and not seeing anyone. It should never have been the business of government to impose anything like the restrictions we have seen – the role of government was to protect the health service with the minimum intervention possible, by informing the public of the true risk, beefing up critical care.

You’re not crazy, the human race has gone crazy. Less than 2% of the people who have died this year on Earth had covid-19. And our way of life has to change forever?

55060 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to kbeanie, 10, #938 of 1198 🔗

If you’re a crazy selfish bitch than so am I! I think this is the most insidious part of the whole Covid debacle — the nonsense that we don’t wear a mask to protect ourselves but, rather, to protect others. This is how people like us are made to look like knuckle-dragging, grandma killers who don’t give a shit about other people. I don’t want people protecting me! Thanks but no thanks. Because I am so anti-muzzle, I’m the one forced to stay indoors because I can’t bear to see the dystopian landscape our world has become. Where does this “protect each other” crap end? The potential for scope creep is breathtaking — I already see it in commenters (on other sites) who think this extends to people taking a vaccine to protect others. Of course they don’t want to “force” us to take the poison, they just think if we don’t it’s perfectly OK that we be fired from jobs, not allowed to go to a restaurant or to travel, or to even be provided medical care for reasons having nothing to do with Covid. Next it’ll be the government coming for a kidney since you only need one. But we’re all in this together (sarcasm)!

55097 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 3, #939 of 1198 🔗

And the whole mask thing? It STINKS of virtue signalling. Oh look at me + how much I really care about other people. Look I’m so morally upstanding in my mask-wearing + protecting all these people who probably didn’t even ask for it but I’m doing it anyway. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me.

And if you don’t wear one? Oh look at that selfish prick. They just want people to die. Bet someone they know gets it + they feel realllyyyy guilty. Moron. Moron. Selfish moron.

55117 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to kbeanie, 3, #940 of 1198 🔗

The protect others thing is a whole load of virtue signalling rubbish, made up by the media to put pressure, same thing as the Brexit blaming thing they came out with, its all those aging little Englanders, they always think of an angle to divide and conquer. When I hear anyone say they are wearing their mask to protect me I say I didnt ask them to, so they welcome to remove it

55218 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kbeanie, 2, #941 of 1198 🔗

They’re not all virtue signallers. Yesterday, in a completely unmasked cafe, a customer donned a mask to go to the toilet!

55353 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #942 of 1198 🔗

Doesn’t trust her nappy?

55368 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheezilla, #943 of 1198 🔗

Had the last person said “i’d give that a couple of minutes” as they left?

55352 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to kbeanie, 1, #944 of 1198 🔗

But it’s all lies. The optative wearers quite obviously wear masks to protect themselves. It’s only you who has to wear a mask to protect them.

55112 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kbeanie, 4, #945 of 1198 🔗

No you’re not crazy and selfish. You’re not taking everything you see and read as gospel truth and that’s good. You question things and you do your research. I know people your age who sadly lack the critical thinking skills that you have. Hang in there and you’re not alone.

55122 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #946 of 1198 🔗

Yes, from what I’ve read it’s the younger people who are most likely to overestimate their risk. And here I thought it would be the young people who would save us by ignoring all the edicts and getting us to herd immunity. My daughter, who is 23, has friends who are the biggest bedwetters I’ve every seen.

55198 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #947 of 1198 🔗

They are the worst yes but if you ask them things they know nothing about anything.

55447 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #948 of 1198 🔗

When I mentioned to a millenial friend that she was more likely to die from being struck by lightning, from a fall at home due to dodgy DIY work or being run over by a bus than Covid 19; the only thing she could say was “what about the second wave?” I gave up after that.

55130 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kbeanie, 5, #949 of 1198 🔗

No, your not crazy selfish etc, your just not brainwashed. Well done, keep up the good work!
Don’t wear a mask they are totally pointless and will make you ill. The effect they have on society is totally corrosive. You don’t have to wear one. They are safe in their masks, lets see how long they like to wear them for before they all go totally crazy. I think most people are already a special kind of crazy now anyway. I mean that most sincerely. The brainwashing has been systematic and very powerful. It’s has also been global.

55153 ▶▶ stewart, replying to kbeanie, 8, #950 of 1198 🔗

Expecting others to alter their lives in order to protect ones own health seems to me more of the same narcissistic, self-victimising, passive aggressive behaviour displayed by people who expect others never to say anything that might offend them.

This all feels very much like a struggle between those who believe in personal freedom and responsibility and those who think that people need to be told what to do or society breaks down.

Right now it’s not looking good for those of us who value freedom.

55167 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stewart, 3, #951 of 1198 🔗

Exactly. It’s along the same lines as the victim culture, people that take offence at everything – *you* must change *your* behaviour so *they* don’t get infected, just like *you* have to be careful what *you* say, in case *they* might be offended..

Plus the suggestions of that confounded ‘Behavioural insights’ team!

55233 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to stewart, 2, #952 of 1198 🔗

So right! It’s no coincidence that cancel culture and “wokeness” have intensified during the lockdown of society. Safety-ism is taking many forms, whether it be speech that makes people feel “unsafe” or mask wearing to make others feel “safe.” Collectivism writ large.

55156 ▶▶ matt, replying to kbeanie, 4, #953 of 1198 🔗

No, you’re exactly right. I have no way of telling if you are ‘vulnerable’ unless for some reason it’s obvious that you are. I have an incentive to avoid getting ill myself and a duty to try to make sure that I don’t infect you. In normal circumstances, that second bit comes under “manners”. If you are at severe risk, you have an added incentive to take extra care to make sure you don’t get sick – whether that takes the form of keeping yourself away from me or of taking extra care around me.

Neither you nor I have any obligation to abandon normal human behaviour (in normal circumstances, this is known as “rudeness”) on the off chance that you are sick and I am vulnerable.

Generally speaking, at least until March, absolutely every single one of us make multiple decisions regarding risk every minute of the day. We’ve been doing this for as long as we could make decisions, rather than just acting on instinct. Now, apparently, we can’t do this, but must rely on the government to give us an inflexible set of rules/guidelines/advice (delete as appropriate).

55159 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to kbeanie, 7, #954 of 1198 🔗

You’re definitely not selfish, I too am unable to see why I should suddenly be responsible for 65 million other peoples lives all of a sudden.

You’re awake, informed and questioning of the situation. You just have to rise above the virtuous people who are probably absolutely terrified of either getting the virus or terrified of giving it to a loved one who then dies. They’ve been brainwashed by the government not you.

55200 ▶▶ John P, replying to kbeanie, 2, #955 of 1198 🔗

“Please tell me I’m not a crazy selfish bitch…”

You’re not a crazy selfish bitch 🙂

55204 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to John P, 3, #956 of 1198 🔗

Much appreciated! As are all replies 😀

55224 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to kbeanie, 3, #957 of 1198 🔗

Some of the worst people I know for shouting about granny killers now, were perfectly happy to spread their germs around before all this. One in particular would send her kids to school or on playdates, or even go out to a restaurant, just hours after the family had recovered from a d&v bug. Obviously unaware that norovirus going through a hospital or care home can result in many deaths. But now, even if you don’t have symptoms of any kind, you’re a murderer for going within 10 feet of another human being without a piece of cloth covering your face…

55350 ▶▶ annie, replying to kbeanie, 2, #958 of 1198 🔗

You’re simply a person with a brain.
But I am alternately a life-saver and a murderess. My town in Wales is festooned with notices saying ‘Stay two metres apart. Save lives.’
I walk the same way as I always have. So does practically everybody else. So
sometimes I save lives by the dozen, sometimes I doom legions to an awful death. And my life is saved, or doomed, on an equally regular basis.

54972 Biker, replying to Biker, -16, #959 of 1198 🔗

Anybody watched that clown cough er … Dr Vernon Coleman? Lol. He thinks the world is coming to an end, billions dead and blah blah evil rulers blah blah. Can someone ask this dumb fuck if they kill off all the people who’ll buy the shit they make that we don’t need? I don’t know what i hate worse, the useless tossers in Government whom, even if they were gonna kill us all, would fuck that up like they fuck up everything else or wankers like Coleman and his doomsday cult of losers who like thinking they know the secret stuff behind it all how they’re all gonna kill us. He ends his videos by say thanks for watching an old man in a chair, i can smell the piss from that old mans chair from here.

55195 ▶▶ John P, replying to Biker, 2, #960 of 1198 🔗

(Sigh …)

55303 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to John P, -2, #961 of 1198 🔗

how did i know a cretin like you would be listening to that old buffoon. Holy shit. Still i guess it’s comforting. I prefer reality myself but whatever floats your tiny boat

55320 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 2, #962 of 1198 🔗

Tell us more about your hating, Biker, and how it helps return our freedom.

54974 Old Bill, replying to Old Bill, 22, #963 of 1198 🔗

Friday 1900hrs – New results from the latest imperial college computer model prove conclusively that the earth is flat.

Saturday 0900hrs – bbc headlines announce ‘flat earth crisis’ – life to never be the same again.

Saturday 1200hrs – Baa Baa Bleat Bleat, sheeple announce horror at extreme danger to life – we could fall off!!

Saturday 1500hrs – conservative government announces response to new life threatening catastrophe. We are considering all options. We have employed the best brains that the bbc has to offer to consult on our policy – Mary Berry, Jimmy Carr, Al Murray, Anthea Turner, and we have even re-engaged Richard Hammond due to his extensive knowledge of car crashes.

Saturday 1800hrs – Earnest discussions on news 24 re relative merit of walls, fences, stop signs, speed bumps, safety nets etc etc.

Sunday 0900hrs – BJ announces new nationwide lockdown. It is simply too dangerous for you to leave your houses as we don’t yet know where the edges are.

Monday 0900hrs – Government announces compulsory wearing of parachutes when outdoors. Jeff Bezos has agreed to supply 60 million of these at only a fraction over cost price.

Tuesday 0900hrs – Jeff Bezos sells all 60 million parachutes to America at considerably more than cost price.

Wednesday 0900hrs – Sceptics dispute efficacy of compulsory parachute regulation – where will we land?

Wednesday 1200hrs – Government responds to sceptics that although the landing problem is not totally solved, it is better to wear them anyway as they might provide a small amount of protection and anyway you won’t be allowed out without them.

Wednesday 1500hrs – Baa Baa Bleat Bleat, sheeple religiously wearing parachutes on every shopping trip – we feel safer now!!

Wednesday 1800hrs – Sceptics question if the Imperial College model could be wrong given the many photographs of the earth taken from space showing it to be round?

Wednesday 2000hrs – Sceptics accused of ignoring the science and non-parachute wearers to be fined £100

I could go on but I don’t know the endgame any more than BJ does.

54977 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Old Bill, 4, #964 of 1198 🔗

LOL. Weds 2100hrs – Rod Liddle in The Spectator says the Earth must be flat because everyone can’t be wrong.

54988 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 3, #965 of 1198 🔗

Problem : 20000000 idiots standing on top of one another don’t make a pyramid of wisdom.

55041 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to RickH, #966 of 1198 🔗

No, but they might end up flat and in the earth.

55179 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to RickH, 1, #967 of 1198 🔗

But ‘it’s turtles all the way down’.

55158 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Julian, #968 of 1198 🔗


54992 Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 6, #969 of 1198 🔗

Ugh! Watched a terrible advert on tv about children in an impoverished country and covid, I didn’t catch which charity, but they had a logo in the shape of a mask with the words save the covid generation (or something like that). Very depressing.

Went to the local pub after a dog walk, very busy. All age ranges, at least two in the “vulnerable” bracket but we’re happy to be out and about.

On the bad side, mother coming over tomorrow but will only sit in back garden and anti socially distance. Very disappointed, despite sending links to sceptical sites and pages. The thing is i live in a mid terrace house so they have to walk through our plague infected house to get to the garden. I despair I really do, I can’t see tomorrow going well when I get on my soapbox.

54999 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Rabbit, 1, #970 of 1198 🔗

Good luck with that one!

55014 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Rabbit, 4, #971 of 1198 🔗

You have highlighted one clear aspect of the evil being perpetrated on the unwary

55036 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Rabbit, 5, #972 of 1198 🔗

Quite – I am currently avoiding my mother-in-law (“it’s OK for business owners to lose their life’s work, because we’re all in this together”, etc, etc: not, I should add, that I own a business) like, well, like the plague!

55050 ▶▶ Will, replying to Rabbit, 8, #973 of 1198 🔗

Three paediatricians have now told me that Covid does not affect children. My daughter is having chemotherapy and her specialist is more worried about colds than covid. FFS!!!!!!

55081 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Will, 3, #974 of 1198 🔗

I feel for you. This Covid distraction is the sort of shite that mrdics have to deal with whilst trying to do a real job.

55070 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Rabbit, 2, #975 of 1198 🔗

Thanks all, sorry sounds like some of you have much worse scenarios to deal with.

Having almost rubbed shoulders with NHS staff its all a joke. But this is not a slur on the medical profession I know a lot are hard working.

It seems to me all about reassuring the scared masses, yes you can go to the shops because those that don’t care, the granny killers will have to wear masks.

55319 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Rabbit, #976 of 1198 🔗

It seems to me all about reassuring the scared masses, yes you can go to the shops because those that don’t care, the granny killers will have to wear masks.

This. For some of the scared masses anyrate.

55078 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Rabbit, 3, #977 of 1198 🔗

When my family visits, I drink Corona beer out of my Lockdown Sceptics mug. I think they’re coming round to my viewpoint.

55022 nottingham69, 8, #978 of 1198 🔗

I wish Trump would come out and urge muzzle wearing. Then the madness would end immediately.

55034 A. Contrarian, 5, #979 of 1198 🔗


This is from September last year. 80 million people dead in two days? Makes Ferguson’s half a million look positively tame. Or perhaps he was one of the “experts” involved?

55047 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 5, #980 of 1198 🔗

I think this was posted this morning, but it’s such an outrageous story I just can’t help but post details again.


Maximum absurdity and vile wokeness.

Guy Gibson’s dog was called Nigger. It was killed in an accident in 1943 and I guess the gravestone has been in place from about that time. Now some committee of ultra gits has decided the gravestone must be removed. When will these outrages end, I wonder?

55132 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #981 of 1198 🔗

The gravestone. Now gone.
comment image

55157 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #982 of 1198 🔗

This idiocy has got to stop!

55171 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Tenchy, 2, #983 of 1198 🔗

It’s history. And it was 70 + years ago, And, no, it’s not a good name for a dog today. But airbrush one bit of history, air brush it all. And then how do we learn from it? Interestingly I bet these virtue-signallers would have surrendered to Hitler on Day One, none of the heroics of 617 squadron.

55055 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 19, #984 of 1198 🔗

Good article just posted in Telegraph from Ben Habib, where he lays out chronologically the many U turns and contradictions:


Comments so far:

Most popular – The lockdown was a huge mistake. The key message during this pandemic should have been-“anyone below the age of 65 who is healthy is very unlikely to die of Covid”…A national disgrace. The NHS is there to protect us, not the other way round….

Second – Well said. After initially thinking bojo was the man for the job, getting brexit done etc,I now realise he’s a total and utter berk. Surrounded by similar people. It’s a disaster of our own making

Third – The negligence and incompetence of the main actors in this horror movie are Johnson, Hancock, Raab, Vallance and Whitty. Having been in business for over 40 years these people would never have even become managers as their poor judgment and advice would have meant that they were totally unsuitable for leadership.

I hope the pressure from backbench MPs is much more extensive than the public comments from Desmond Swayne and Christopher Chope. The PHE ‘scandal’ will not be helping the mood!

55071 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #985 of 1198 🔗

Sorry TT if you’ve seen this before but the net goes far wider and much deeper than BoJo et al When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it. Covers the excess death issue too…..figures being fiddled.

55096 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to T. Prince, #986 of 1198 🔗

Thanks. The link is broken though. There is certainly an air of Extinction Rebellion about it – aim to bring down Western capitalism in what ever way they can. I never thought a Trump Administration and Tory majority government would ever fall for it!

55090 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #987 of 1198 🔗

Sorry, can’t agree with that. The idea that a Great Leader would ignore the medical and scientific advice and reach his own conclusions is the stuff of Albanian dictatorships. The blame lies with the broadcast media. When you have all the public health professionals demanding lockdown, and the broadcast media looking to damage the government, there’s really no choice. That’s the world we live in. To demand that a government of no more than 120 ministers in total should go out on a limb is just not realistic.

55133 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to WhyNow, 4, #988 of 1198 🔗

Basing policy on the output of a model, produced by a team that had a track record of consistently over-estimating disease outcomes by a factor of 10-20 times, doesn’t constitute going out on a limb?

55256 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 3, #989 of 1198 🔗

They managed it in Sweden

They are guilty

No one forced them to do what they did

They have been fully committed to the lies ever since and have made no move to try and get out of this

If they believed it was wrong they could have resigned or moved things in a different direction as soon as they could

Instead we have Leicester and face covering nonsense

Cowards and liars

55313 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to WhyNow, #990 of 1198 🔗

Actually great leaders might well do that sort of thing, but great leaders are clearly in very short supply.

The government was duty bound to consider other advice, but did it do so? We can be fairly sure that it only really listened to the “experts” that told it exactly what it wanted to hear. As luck would have it, these were the “ experts” that happened to have financial ties with vaccine king himself, Bill Gates, amazing.

Now have you heard the funny story about dear old Sweden and the lockdown?

55317 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to WhyNow, 1, #991 of 1198 🔗

You seem to be assuming there is “one” version of scientific or medical advice on offer. Far from the truth!

Don’t forget also that SAGE did NOT advise the government to go for total national lockdown. That was a political decision – probably the result of Macron’s threat to blockade the Channel ports if we didn’t agree.

55170 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #992 of 1198 🔗

U turns are ok when you are heading in the wrong direction.

In fact I wish they would make a very big, drastic U turn right now.

If Johnson came out tomorrow and said: folks, we’ve screwed this one up big time, we overestimated the danger, we over-reacted, let’s focus on protecting the old and vulnerable and everyone else back to work and normal life – if he did that, I would be delighted and would vote for him at the next election without hesitation.

55177 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to stewart, 2, #993 of 1198 🔗

Agree with you completely up to the point on voting; past the point of no return for me on that one!

55259 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #994 of 1198 🔗

He cannot be trusted and in any case his sins are too great

55300 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to stewart, 2, #995 of 1198 🔗

Bojo and his useless cronies have the blood of thousands of old people on their hands and should be in jail, not government.

55349 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stewart, 2, #996 of 1198 🔗

Csn you imagine Boris giving a display of honesty, humility and intelligence? I’d as soon expect my horse to talk. Though even now there is more sense in her neighs than in any official pronouncement.

55057 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 13, #997 of 1198 🔗

Yes, it is true – no running, singing, reading newspapers etc, on public transport in Wales. How can you have a directive stopping singing in Wales, of all places? I’m hoping we’ll see gangs of renegade male voice choirs singing ‘Sospan Fach’ on the Cambrian Line in defiance.

55103 ▶▶ ianric, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #998 of 1198 🔗

What exactly is the logic of not allowing people to read newspapers.

55140 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to ianric, 2, #999 of 1198 🔗

I’m guessing (and believe me, I think this is mad) but it is because people will bring papers onto the train, which will then be left behind for other people to read. The virus will be transmitted with the newspaper as the medium.

55147 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #1000 of 1198 🔗

No no no no no. Because if so. Then we have a problem – post and junk mail! But of course sky news proudly propagandises proudly at each advert break that covid 19 cannot be transfered by post. Handy since that would really cripple a nation.

Cannot make this stuff up. Perhaps the models show corona is a homing virus of somekind, seeking out newsprint.

55296 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Basics, 1, #1001 of 1198 🔗

Coronavirus is all over the Guardian, so be very careful there.

55304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Rowan, #1002 of 1198 🔗

Yep. And that’s not the worst thing to catch from reading the Guardian.

I once caught Owen Jones’s latest column and wished someone had put me into an induced coma.

55306 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Basics, #1003 of 1198 🔗

Well, yeah, but everything’s crazy right now. We’ve got a society determined to create rules to protect us!

If you’ve noticed the premier league restart, the ball boys have to disinfect the ball when it goes out of play. I’m sure professional footballers are slap bang in the middle of societies most vulnerable.

55196 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cicatriz, #1004 of 1198 🔗

This was my guess too.

55294 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cicatriz, #1005 of 1198 🔗

“The virus will be transmitted with the newspaper as the medium.”

But it won’t will it, the virus now having all but disappeared for its summer break. We will just have to be patient and wait for the new improved stronger version, which they have scheduled for release in the autumn.

55143 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to ianric, 3, #1006 of 1198 🔗

Well, you could argue that’s pretty good logic. Most newspapers haven’t really been helping us, or themselves. But really, telling people what they can and can’t read is the realm of 1984

55154 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ianric, 1, #1007 of 1198 🔗

I’m guessing because people discard newspapers on public transport, which other people then pick up and read – potential for virus transmission????

I seem to remember reading (!) that there were no longer to be magazines allowed in hairdressers’ salons, for that reason…

55163 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, 2, #1008 of 1198 🔗

Then don’t put your arse on a seat because someone sat there before you and someone will afterwards.

55165 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #1009 of 1198 🔗

Arse muzzles for sitting on?

55348 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #1010 of 1198 🔗

They’re called nappies, and there’s a shortage because they are all being worn on faces.

55183 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to ianric, 1, #1011 of 1198 🔗

Maybe breathing towards a newspaper will create airflow that is too difficult to predict and therefore a danger to others.

I’m sure there will be a preprint study somewhere observing some people became infected near a person reading a newspaper.

55213 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to ianric, #1012 of 1198 🔗

The Guardian is exempt from the restrictions.

55289 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to ianric, #1013 of 1198 🔗

For the most part that’s a quite sensible idea.

55240 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Mr Dee, #1014 of 1198 🔗

It is absolutely ridiculous in Wales that it is now illegal to run for a train!!!

55079 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 7, #1015 of 1198 🔗

Where to begin?? I think the root cause of the problem is malign motivation. The BBC wants to harm the Conservative government. The public health professionals want an example of the efficacy of a National Health Service. All sorts of professionals want more public money for more public health. It is basically an ancapitalist (as is anarchic) demonstration. They would deny it, of course. But there is no doubt there is an ulterior motivation. Otherwise, why all the name calling when people question the data?
Any media outlet that reports 40+ thousand deaths FROM Covid – like the BBC – is lying, plain and simple. It is quite obvious they never were FROM, and now it is not even WITH.
I heard someone on Radio 4 demanding an inquiry now. She said “it is time to put politics aside”. And yet their motivation was political. It was in the hope that an inquiry would damage the government. What other purpose, now, could it possibly serve?

55085 ▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, -1, #1016 of 1198 🔗

The root of this panicdemic is profoundly capitalist!

55160 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to RickH, 3, #1017 of 1198 🔗

I would say fascist

55166 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1018 of 1198 🔗

And I mean that in the truest sense of the word before the left debased it by smearing everyone they disagreed with it.Not a peep from them,actually calling for more of the same.

55169 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1019 of 1198 🔗

It’s Communitarian actually, a new technocratic system of world governance based on a hybrid model of fascism and communism.

55205 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1020 of 1198 🔗

Fascism is communism’s twin brother.one is normally nationalistic the other internationalist in theory.the end result is totalitarianism

55269 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1021 of 1198 🔗

I thought Fascism was prejudice against faces. Guess I was wrong.

55287 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1022 of 1198 🔗

And globalist.

55299 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, #1023 of 1198 🔗

utter bollocks

55162 ▶▶ Bella, replying to WhyNow, 7, #1024 of 1198 🔗

Are you kidding? The BBC is in bed with the government, it is doing their bidding. The idea is to break your spirit and the BBC is the front man. Look at the comments above yours: people in despair that they are going to have to spend the rest of their lives behind masks. And nothing’s going to change until we turn against it and we need numbers. How many times do I have to say it on this site: this is a coup and masks were coming in from day one. It is a symbol of subjugation. Of defeat. Orange jumpsuits next. (And, no, I’m not being facetious.)

55185 ▶▶ John P, replying to WhyNow, 1, #1025 of 1198 🔗

“The BBC wants to harm the Conservative government.”


I’ve not seen much evidence of that in the last four months !

55285 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John P, #1026 of 1198 🔗

There is no evidence. The government takes its Covid orders directly from Bill Gates. The BBC is totally in awe of vaccine supremo Bill Gates, not too surprisingly, as it takes his mega money for promoting his evil vaccine agenda.

55302 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to WhyNow, #1027 of 1198 🔗

It’s definitely more complex than that since so many capitalist companies seem very onside with the Lockdown Ideology. Many capitalist billionaires seem to be stoking the fires of hysteria.

55307 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to WhyNow, 1, #1028 of 1198 🔗

The Coronaviruses response is a cultural one. Cultural dynamics are always complex and even more so in a nation with 70 million people – probably beyond anyone’s real comprehension to be honest. The key players have been media, politicians, business, NHS, Big Pharma and the Trade Unions. These players have been operating on a field of modern values that prioritise anxiety over resilience, narrative over facts and life years over life quality.

55080 GetaGrip, replying to GetaGrip, 25, #1029 of 1198 🔗

Scotland calling.
So, after a week, masks are now embedded in the Scottish psyche. I can report that compliance in Northern Scotia appears high. I’ve only seen 2 cyclists (getting coffee from a garage) not wearing them. Both were early 70’s I reckon. Respect!

It is certainly dehumanising. The ‘Maskers’ in the shops remind me of the ‘Walkers’ in The Walking Dead.

I believe some 80% support masks (in a US poll), and a similar percentage in UK, according to radio discussion I heard.
I can only assume they have all bought into the ‘go outside and you’ll die’ narrative, in which case wearing masks makes perfect sense, and from that position you look for arguments/’evidence’ to support your position (confirmation bias), rather than evaluate evidence first, to then reach your position.
Hell, we do it too. Particularly natural libertarians or those with a more robust attitude to risk. Fortunately for those of us with an anti-Lockdown/mask etc ideological bias to start with, we’re drowning in evidence to support our position.

Equally, this concept is why the other 80% (more attuned to a ‘safety-first’ outlook) are apparently impervious to argument and evidence.

A Bollocks situation that sure is, but recognition of this concept (see The Righteous Mind, by Jonathan Haidt) certainly helps reduce the pervading sense of despair.

Keep at it though, and keep the faith.

I shared a few ‘observations’ with a local restauranter, who clocked me for a sceptic. He then got my number (being a regular takeaway customer) and texted about a weekly sceptic’s secret meeting above his restaurant which had been running since start of Lockdown. Illegally, and with password entry at the back door – LOL.
Who’d have thought it – 2020, Scotland – and against the Law, secret Lockdown Resistance meetings.
OK, maybe more of a support group for the converted than an insurrection, but some faith in humanity got restored 😁

55094 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to GetaGrip, 8, #1030 of 1198 🔗

…you look for arguments/’evidence’ to support your position (confirmation bias), rather than evaluate evidence first, to then reach your position. Hell, we do it too. Particularly natural libertarians or those with a more robust attitude to risk.

But that implies that all viewpoints are equally valid but merely different from each other. I disagree: the viewpoint that starts with freedom as the default and is sceptical of all attempts to stifle it is by definition BETTER than the alternative.

P.S. I like the idea of the secret society!

55174 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to GetaGrip, 2, #1031 of 1198 🔗

It’s not hard to justify when the argument is:

If you don’t wear a mask somebody somewhere might die and if it saves just one life it’s worth it. It’s just a piece of cloth.

Also, Sods law trumps probability theory. The moment you go into a shop without a mask you will infect somebody regardless of whether you are infected or not and somebody somewhere might die in 2 weeks time. Anytime you’re not wearing a mask outside of a shop is ok because the evidence suggests that Sods law doesn’t work as well outdoors.

Despite all this, even if all the rules are followed to the letter and somebody does actually die it would have been somebody else that died had you not been wearing your mask.

55262 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1032 of 1198 🔗

So let’s say you go to a shop, unmasked, and someone vulnerable in that shop at the same time as you happens to later succumb to the virus. How can it be proved that it was *your* fault, that you were the *only* unmasked person that the poor unfortunate came in contact with?
Because the person could have been infected any time in the preceding 2 weeks, and so it could be the fault of any one of a much larger number of people.. Can it actually be proved that *you* are the guilty party? And if so, is there a potential fine?????
If you were unknowingly carrying the virus at the time, then by the time they potentially tracked you down, you would most probably not have it any more, so testing you would serve no purpose. And if you had antibodies, no one could prove how you got these…

55265 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Carrie, 4, #1033 of 1198 🔗

They’ve turned it into a collective guilt. If somebody dies then society has failed. That’s a pretty powerful argument.

55347 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 2, #1034 of 1198 🔗

Evil fanatics don’t need proof. Remember the ‘burn the witch’ scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail ?

55180 ▶▶ John P, replying to GetaGrip, 12, #1035 of 1198 🔗

“we’re drowning in evidence to support our position”

Perhaps, but this isn’t the point !

The point is that the government now thinks it has the right to tell you what you should wear and when.

And I still reserve the right to tell them to fuck off.

I’m sorry for using this sort of language, but these are extreme times. I shall do my level best to resist this authoritarian government.

55273 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John P, 4, #1036 of 1198 🔗

“I’m sorry for using this sort of language, but these are extreme times. I shall do my level best to resist this authoritarian government.”

Very understandable and probably now very necessary. We are being taken for one hell of a nasty ride and waiting for us is Bill Gates and his terminator hypodermic. We are clearly now in very deep trouble. The sheep may deserve all they are going to get, the rest of us probably don’t.

55281 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to GetaGrip, 3, #1037 of 1198 🔗

It’s not primarily aerosol transfer and all these masks are going to achieve the sq root of f all.
Do some research into how Singapore got its nosocomial transfer down to a statistical zero:

55091 nowhereman, replying to nowhereman, 12, #1038 of 1198 🔗

Over 100,000 tests a day. Roughly 600 “cases” a day. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA IF THIS HIGHER THAN THE FALSE POSITIVE RATE, HANCOCK???

55149 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to nowhereman, 1, #1039 of 1198 🔗

My worry is that with this number of tests going on, they will manage to get pretty much everyone’s details for tracking, as well as DNA..

55172 ▶▶▶ John P, replying to Carrie, #1040 of 1198 🔗

They’re not having mine. I won’t be tested.

55260 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to John P, 1, #1041 of 1198 🔗

I’m with you and will resist to the end.

55212 ▶▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Carrie, #1042 of 1198 🔗

Yep, 3 million a month, extended until at least Christmas, that’s a sizeable chunk of the population…

55100 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 20, #1043 of 1198 🔗

Hey fellow sceptics, I’ve been lurking here since May and have appreciated reading comments from like-minded people. This site has been like a lifeline for me as things become worse and worse — I’ve been trying to post but they’ve been held pending for so many hours they get lost, but today the site seems better. I left my home in Toronto in early May to escape the dystopian landscape and retreated to my country place for a sense of normalcy. Here people still smiled at each other, chatted in grocery lines (distanced of course) and didn’t seem fussed. When Toronto mandated mandatory masks a few weeks ago I cried, but took solace in the fact that up here all was still normal. Well, it didn’t last long. Today they’re now mandatory here too, in a country that has ONE active case. Now I’m despondent and thinking this will never end since so many people believe masking is such a great idea and should continue indefinitely. My husband will be doing the major shopping now as it gives me anxiety to be around so many masked people. I can handle not breathing for short periods, but anything more than 15 minutes and I can’t take it. So, for those short trips out that can’t be avoided, I’m going to don a protest mask. Some of these slogans are mine, others I’ve seen elsewhere but not on masks per se. I thought I’d share for anyone else who might want/need to don a protest mask.

Mass(ked) Hysteria
Seen But Not Herd
Silence of the Lambs
“New”/NOT Normal — with the “New” crossed out and the NOT written above
Herd Immunity/Mentality — with Immunity crossed out and Mentality written above

My subversive mask strategy is to try a silk scarf balaclava style, as silk is light and I should be able to breathe through it. I’ve also ordered gaiters/balaclavas that are for outdoor exercise and protect against UV, sand, dirt, wind, etc. and are also silk (with a bit of spandex) and supposedly breathable and keep you cool. These and the scarf are on order. They’ll do absolutely nothing to prevent virus particles from getting in or out, but that’s the point! Stop the harassment from the virtue signallers but wear something that will do sweet fuck all other than allow me to not pass out from oxygen deprivation.

55108 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #1044 of 1198 🔗

I’m not wearing a mask at all. Of course that means I won’t get into some shops, but that’s too bad. If I get hit with a fine I will refuse to pay it. If I get hauled before the courts I will make my case.

55116 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #1045 of 1198 🔗

I haven’t been back to Toronto since the mask wearing became mandatory, but from what I’m reading and have been told you won’t be allowed in to any shop. The sheeple are complying and “no mask, no service” is being enforced across the board. I won’t go to a grocery store, but thankfully where I live there are small food shops that I can be in and out of very quickly. Now if it becomes mandatory outdoors, I’m with you — I will risk arrest and a fine, which I won’t pay.

55123 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #1046 of 1198 🔗

Well yes, if they make it mandatory outdoors we’ll have no choice but to refuse!

55208 ▶▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Jonathan Castro, #1047 of 1198 🔗

They’ll have trouble enforcing that one Jonathan !

55215 ▶▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #1048 of 1198 🔗

As seems to be imminent in Portugal – we’re getting off lightly – unbelievable!
It’s farmer’s markets for me, and I may get my 80-year old neighbour (who I have been shopping for during lockdown but is now glad to be out) to get the milk for me 🙂

55258 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #1049 of 1198 🔗

And they will make masks mandatory at all times, if they think they can get away with it. It has to be resisted.

55279 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Rowan, #1050 of 1198 🔗

In Spain masks are now mandatory everywhere.

55209 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Jonathan Castro, #1051 of 1198 🔗

And if you get abused by the virtue signallers hit them where it hurts lol.

55217 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #1052 of 1198 🔗

I’m with you. Won’t. Shan’t. Can’t make me. I’ve never broken a law in my life, beyond breaking a speed limit, but I have no obligation to follow a stupid, damaging, arbitrary law. If the shops where I’ve been shopping for the last 15 years wont have me, so be it – online it is and damn them.

55345 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 4, #1053 of 1198 🔗

Simon Dolan is suggesting a boycott of zombie shops.May not make much difference to start with, but I think the horrors that Live from Toronto describes will get to more and more people quite quickly. Result: empty zombie shop.
I’ll join you in court, Jonathan, if they haul us there, which I think is unlikely.

55127 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 15, #1054 of 1198 🔗

I have my FP2 masks which I wear in a clinical setting as mandated by Health Protection Scotland.
This policy still (non-high risk Health Care Setting virus transmission) doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny of the evidence, but OK.

And I have a bunch of FP2’s which I’ve punctured with multiple holes for improved ease of breathing for use in Tesco etc.

Because I don’t want to do this, and you have provided no evidence whatsoever to justify this imposition, and infact have not even bothered to try do so, but just assumed that because ‘I Say So’ is sufficient justification.
I don’t think so.
So F*** You.

55277 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to GetaGrip, 1, #1055 of 1198 🔗

Pity Scotland did not and still will not copy what Singapore did in its hospitals that got nosocomial transfer down to a statistical zero in April!!!

55151 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #1056 of 1198 🔗

Poor you. I feel for you. Mrs Two-Six broke down in tears when I told her face-nappies were going to be made mandatory in the UK. It’s just so evil. Incredible. My only hope is that enough people aren’t so brainwashed that they will go along with it and their evil plan collopses into a shit show of non-compliance. Personally I am opting right out of life right now anyway and even more so when mandatory masks come in. I am pretty much a non entity now anyway. It’s a good day to be nothing. I will get my food online or from shops that aren’t ran by insane brainwashed fools.

I am going to have to go and live in the woods.

What’s the penalty for not wearing one? Can you claim exemption due to asthma or anxiety or something?

55220 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Two-Six, 4, #1058 of 1198 🔗

Yes, I’ve pretty much opted out of life as well and I’m on 60 acres so actually am living in the woods! You can’t even make this stuff up — the mandate from our county lists as one of the exemptions: if wearing a face covering would inhibit the person’s ability to breathe in any way. Duh! I guess that makes us all exempt. The problem is the gatekeepers who will keep you out of the store or the other shoppers that’ll start ranting about not wearing a face nappie. Just not worth it to get into a pissing match when my husband is willing to do the shopping. I, too, am ordering more online than I’d like but I refuse to go into any shop unless it’s for food or some other necessity.

55228 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1059 of 1198 🔗

” My only hope is that enough people aren’t so brainwashed “
That’s what I thought till I started reading some of the BTL DT comments – my god, we are a small minority!
So many are in the “ it’s only a mask and it might save a life” camp, and they can’t all be 77th brigade.
Covid is just the start, and I see no end to this. Yet it’s not a global conspiracy, just a huge realignment of the public’s thinking that most (the vast majority) seem happy to go along with.

55128 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #1062 of 1198 🔗

Delete your accounts is the best way to disable them!

55175 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #1063 of 1198 🔗

I did think of that but unfortunately Arsebook is the only way I can keep in touch with family, friends and colleagues. If I could keep messenger while deleting my page that would be great.

55192 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1064 of 1198 🔗

Do you not have a telephone?

55257 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to John P, #1065 of 1198 🔗

Eggs. Fucking. Zactly.

55586 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to John P, #1066 of 1198 🔗

I have family overseas and calling them is expensive.

55219 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1067 of 1198 🔗

You can delete your page and just keep messenger – I’ve been doing it for years

55588 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1068 of 1198 🔗

Thanks. Will try that.

55344 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 1, #1069 of 1198 🔗

They make deleting as difficult as they can. Presumably the more accounts they have, even if completely inert, the more advertising revenue they get. Twitter refused to accept my ‘delete account’ command. In the end I just deleted the app.

55139 TheBluePill, 1, #1070 of 1198 🔗

O/T I really like the slur “handjob”. Somehow it fits really well, like the bond villain he is. Let’s keep it consistent and stick to using handjob, no “handcock” or “wankcock”, “handjob” is sublime.

55152 Cheezilla, #1071 of 1198 🔗
The more this continues, the more I'm reminded of this brilliant series:

55161 gina, replying to gina, 9, #1073 of 1198 🔗

Peaceful Demo – Keep Britain Free Gathering Sunday 19th July 1pm Speakers Corner Hyde Park. Look for the red balloons

55194 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to gina, 3, #1074 of 1198 🔗

That’s just made me wonder if a breath inflated balloon could be considered a lethal weapon. It definitely wouldn’t surprise me.

I’ve now got visions of someone holding a pin next to a balloon threatening to pop it.

55210 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1075 of 1198 🔗

Excellent point we need balloons withdrawing from sale imediately – I for one feel exposed. A balloon ban double cross campaign might just tip people into realising this is insanity.

55214 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1076 of 1198 🔗


55201 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to gina, #1077 of 1198 🔗

Gina Miller? Could it be?!

55270 ▶▶▶ gina, replying to nowhereman, 1, #1078 of 1198 🔗

No – hope that’s not a disappointment…

55164 Two-Six, 2, #1079 of 1198 🔗

Anybody want a nice badge? They measure 30mm in diameter, cost £4.00 each with free postage and packaging and get cheaper the more you buy.
email me if you would like one. two-six@twang.co.uk

55190 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 15, #1080 of 1198 🔗

I believe the professors, after doing this for months have become dangerously obsessed and need some counselling, its not normal behaviour for anyone. The facts are that working age people are not dying and yet they cannot process that fact.

55203 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #1081 of 1198 🔗

I think there is something in that. You get too close to something for too long, you work on it night and day, you very quickly can’t let go/see the wood for the trees. Needs a fresh look with other scientific input (Gupta, Heneghan, Spiegelhalter etc).

55211 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #1082 of 1198 🔗

They need to do it asap, they are starting to look pretty manic, as is Hancock, shuffle needed there too.

55216 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #1083 of 1198 🔗

Won’t happen. Too sensible

55223 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #1084 of 1198 🔗

One thing I noticed watching some of the Lords committee earlier – Patrick Vallance seems to have a cold sore on his upper right lip. Sign of stress? I also think there is some evidence of a widening gulf between Vallance and Whitty. Hancock is a berk, and ‘nervy’ – the inquiry into PHE stats might send him over the edge!

55227 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1085 of 1198 🔗

Just a cold sore, oh well its a start. Mr Whippy always looks a bit odd, or mad

55234 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1086 of 1198 🔗

Idk, Vallance and Whitty both seem pretty committed to the “we-re all going to die” narrative as far as I can see. Social distancing forever, second wave almost guaranteed, blah blah blah.

55244 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1087 of 1198 🔗

My threshold reached I couldn’t stomach the lords session. But that is a valued comment TT. Thanks. 40mil Whitty and glaxo door revolver have plenty of reason to keep ‘their science’ on their narrative.

55248 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1088 of 1198 🔗

Both Whitty and Vallance have substantial financial links to Bill Gates – also I believe Whitty has a job lined up at the WHO imminently..

55250 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #1089 of 1198 🔗

I believe whitty joined who back in may, it was known he was getting a position at who. I havent heard confirmation that he has – its not something I wasted time to confirm.

55243 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #1090 of 1198 🔗

What are they working on all these hours? Epidemiology as practised seems a doddle, something that could be picked up by any averagely intelligent person. It seems to be a combination of some simple maths, a bit of cod behavioural science, a dash of medicine and a lot of unsupported speculation.

55253 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 1, #1091 of 1198 🔗

Haven’t they both crossed the line into politics and strategy, I woukd guess tgat soaks up some time being briefed on the direction to set. Not science.

55342 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 1, #1092 of 1198 🔗

Picked up – like a disease. They ought to be wearing brain masks.

55318 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1093 of 1198 🔗

The professors are seeing exactly what the government wants them to see. That’s how their thick crusty tasty bread gets ever so well buttered.

55235 Gossamer, replying to Gossamer, 7, #1094 of 1198 🔗

Here’s a thought. It’s interesting how, in countries that are referred to as “regimes”, we call those who speak out against the accepted orthodoxies as “dissidents.” In our own country, and other supposed liberal democracies, such individuals are ridiculed as gullible conspiracy theorists and/or contrarians. Or swivel-eyed nutcases.

The calumny is getting progressively worse, everywhere. In a supposedly satirical piece, Private Eye spitefully referred to “…this stupid virus that’s actually no more dangerous than the flu, according to mate’s cousin on Facebook.” If I hadn’t already cancelled my subscription due to its disgraceful, unquestioning stance on lockdown, this would have been the final straw.

55251 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Gossamer, 5, #1095 of 1198 🔗

It’s surprising how many respectable people and institutions have bought the COVID story.

The best explanation I can think of is that most people understand the world through stories and narratives and don’t really get numbers, especially large numbers.

If you make sense of the world through stories, you are more likely to believe that COVID is terrifying,

If you are able to make sense of the world through numbers you are more likely to be sceptical.,

And then there are self-serving scientists and politicians who are a bit sociopathic who just care about themselves and what is best for them.

55266 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to stewart, 4, #1096 of 1198 🔗

When you’ve got Yorkshire Tea coming out in support of the mad Marxist-racist anti-British BLM movement nothing else can surprise.

55276 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, 3, #1097 of 1198 🔗

I’m boycotting it !

55282 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 6, #1098 of 1198 🔗

So am I. A lot of people must be because last time I looked it was still on sale with a 40% reduction on the normal price. I’ll never buy it again.

55310 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 1, #1099 of 1198 🔗


55340 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 2, #1100 of 1198 🔗

Ever ever ever.

55596 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, #1101 of 1198 🔗

Saw that as well. I have a pack that I’m finishing but after that never again.

55297 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to OKUK, #1102 of 1198 🔗

Oh what have they done?

55309 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1103 of 1198 🔗

In essence they said that anyone who didn’t support BLM was a racist and shouldn’t buy their tea. Effing outrageous!!

55275 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stewart, 3, #1104 of 1198 🔗

Common Purpose is one all pervasive network that connects disparate elements of what they call (I refuse to) civil society. Certain personality characteristics similar to the ones you mention and advantageous professional positions are selected to be trained by the charity. The NHS has many cp graduates. How and if that is something that has been put to work during these past few months I do not know. It’s one possible way the lead has been followed.

55254 ▶▶ John P, replying to Gossamer, 6, #1105 of 1198 🔗

Yes, language is important. Government and media will often choose words to support a particular narrative. It’s sometimes called propaganda.

Labels such as “conspiracy theorist” are often used as slurs.

If a journalist in the pay or influence of government can successfully attach this label to someone recognised as an opponent of the “official” narrative then people will avoid that individual and what they are saying.

I’ll give you an example. Professor Piers Robinson is a British academic specialising in propaganda. He (and others) consider the White Helmets in Syria to be a jihadi propaganda construct. This may well be true, but Syria is viewed by the British government as an enemy state.

The Times fairly regularly publishes pieces smearing Robinson in order to discredit him. Discredited, many people will then avoid reading what he has to say and will not then be receptive to the narrative which goes against the government and it’s position.

We recently have seen the MSM publishing stories claiming that Russia wants to steal “our” vaccine. It is likely that this is simply part of a campaign to vilify Russia, which some senior officers the security services still regard as Britain’s main enemy. Even though the Soviet Union has not existed for thirty years. I think it’s likely that the story has little substance to it.

I try to question everything that I read, and not take anything at face value. It is important.

55263 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to John P, 6, #1106 of 1198 🔗

Same with vaccines. Reasoned discussion of the pros and cons of vaccination has effectively been outlawed.

55255 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Gossamer, 8, #1107 of 1198 🔗

In the latter decades of the Soviet Union the official line was that dissidents were mentally ill since they didn’t appreciate the objective superiority of the Soviet system (meaning they must be psychologically aberrant). We aren’t so far off that approach in the UK now.

55283 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to OKUK, 1, #1108 of 1198 🔗

Not just in the UK. At the beginning of the ‘lockdown’ the German ‘Land’ of Sachsen actually emptied 22 beds in mental hospitals in order to free up space for individuals who refused to comply with the ‘lockdown’. Following negative publicity the plan was reluctantly abandoned, with the Premier of Sachsen implying that they were simply offering accommodation, not treatment!

Bei Widerstand in die Psychiatrie?


55288 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to DJ Dod, #1109 of 1198 🔗

Teutonic thoroughness at its best!

55246 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 11, #1110 of 1198 🔗

Johnson’s reckoning approaches. Mask Friday will be his nemesis. Either there will be mass resistance or there will be a huge decline in the High Street footfall. Either way his credibility will be shot.

55274 ▶▶ John P, replying to OKUK, 3, #1111 of 1198 🔗

He never had much credibility with me to begin with !

I would agree though, he has been haemorrhaging support of late.

55298 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to OKUK, 9, #1112 of 1198 🔗

Sadly, I think the majority of the population quite likes the idea of the mask: a brand new fashion accessory; the sense of being all in it together; the tantalising prospect of finding a non-conformer to torment.

55312 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1113 of 1198 🔗

Not my experience. I’d say the Mask community is a mere 10-20% of shoppers. In smaller shops hardly anyone seems to be wearing a mask.

55379 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to OKUK, #1114 of 1198 🔗

I agree. 10% in larger shops in ne wales. Much fewer outside. I find I’m becoming quite the anthropologist these days.

55308 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to OKUK, 3, #1115 of 1198 🔗

I’ll be on the side of the resistance, going into as many shops as I can without a mask.

55339 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 2, #1116 of 1198 🔗

That’s the spirit!
Remember Badger, Rat, Mole and Toad. We need to go whack ’em and whack ’em and whack ’em.

55249 Dan Clarke, 9, #1117 of 1198 🔗

Thing is, is everyone, everywhere said enough is enough, no masks, it would end. The gullible will be the downfall of the free world

55252 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1118 of 1198 🔗

According to Derren Brown, the belief that masks and lockdowns work is due to superstition. He didn’t say this specifically but watch this episode to see what I mean:


If you’re unable to watch it you can find a synopsis here at the bottom of the link “ Programme Six Series Finale” :


  • All of the participants in the series meet to celebrate the end of the series, but DB explains they are to participate in a “sociological experiment designed to unlock the irrational mindset behind superstitious thinking”.
  • They are told they have to earn 100 points within 30 minutes to open the door and win the named bundles of 500 appear outside the door. The room contains a variety of objects. The participants start moving things around and a display shows their points increasing.
  • DB explains that the experiment is based on B F Skinner’s experiments into behaviour in the 1960s. He shows footage of Skinner’s experiment with pigeons in which they are rewarded with food during the course of the experiment. The pigeons believed that the food was delivered in response to them repeating certain actions when the food was, in fact, delivered at random. This led to the pigeons simply repeating behaviour for no purpose. Skinner explained this as has superstition works where humans make false connections between cause and effect. DB explains the the participants’ score is increasing a result of a pair of goldfish’s movements in a tank.
55338 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #1119 of 1198 🔗

Face nappies certainly are superstition.Magic, actually. Wear one and you won’t get Covid,
No reason, it just is.
We are like adults at a kiddies’ party, who know that the conjurer didn’t really and actually take a large egg out of Maisie’s ear, or produce a rabbit from a hat. But if we say so, the kiddies, particularly Little Bojo and Baby Matt, scream with rage and throw their toys at us.

55378 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to annie, 2, #1120 of 1198 🔗

Thought – can we somehow replace the mask wearing superstition with another one? we have a powerful tool at hand – social media. We simply play the same game back at them.

55449 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to annie, 1, #1121 of 1198 🔗

It’s because people believe in cause and effect. In order to get a result there has to be an action.

Hence why lockdowns apparently saved lives based on modelling but Sweden couldn’t have saved lives because they didn’t take the same action.

Action saves lives and non-action causes death even if the end result is the same.

Many of us have probably seen the Social Media posts of someone saying they’re not buying into the hysteria of COVID, social distancing or mask wearing and then they died. This is then used as an example of what could happen to you if you don’t take action.

Yet many more people have died who have supposedly taken action. The clear lesson here should be that more people died who were cautious than those that weren’t. But that’s not how people think.

55567 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nobody2020, #1122 of 1198 🔗

The ‘superstition’ angle is correct. Another damming piece from Ivor et al….


55261 Nobody2020, 6, #1123 of 1198 🔗

This is funny if it’s true. Another nail in the coffin for epidemiological modelling?

“The Minnesota covid model projected that every single hospital bed in the entire state would be filled with covid patients in the midst of a dire situation this week. Thankfully, the $1.5 million peer-reviewed model was well off the mark.”

55267 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 16, #1124 of 1198 🔗

The politicians are being coerced into a collective madness, to enforce masks outdoors is totally utterly crazy. Since decent medical care began patients with respiratory illness were wheeled outdoors, windows opened for fresh air.

55271 ▶▶ John P, replying to Dan Clarke, #1125 of 1198 🔗

Where is this?

There is a difference between something being mandated and something being enforced.

It won’t be practical to enforce a mask wearing mandate outdoors in many settings.

55272 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to John P, 6, #1126 of 1198 🔗

They’ve done so in Spain.
They’ve gone completely mad there.

55280 ▶▶▶▶ John P, replying to stewart, #1127 of 1198 🔗

I know it’s mandated there, but as I say, there will be settings where it will be difficult if not impossible to enforce.

55293 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to John P, 5, #1128 of 1198 🔗

I think this thing about enforcement is a red herring. Just the prospect of constant conflict when leaving your house without your face nappy will have sufficient chilling effect to stop people from wanting to do the things they used to.

55381 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1129 of 1198 🔗

This is how it working in Scotland. The nudge unit asked for social shaming yo get compliance, the politicians and media programmdd the public and there you are. You now live with an atmosphere of unpleasantness. All the nore motivation to reject everrything. Carry on as normal.

55284 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #1130 of 1198 🔗

Fresh, clean air was the only effective cure for TB prior to modern drug treatments.

55268 Nessimmersion, replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #1131 of 1198 🔗

Karl Denniger has maintained and laid out reasons for the primary transfer vector being contact contamination
It explains why Covid is still spreading in summer in the US unlike all other corona viruses.

55400 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Nessimmersion, #1132 of 1198 🔗

Why do you believe the common cold isn’t spread by contact – we’re always told in UK that the virus can survive well on cold hard surfaces like white goods, worktops, so clean them? People get summer colds, if less frequently and with less unpleasant symptoms.

55773 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Bruno, #1133 of 1198 🔗

Relaying what the evidence says, not my belief.
Primary vector for common cold is aerosol.
The virus can survive on surfaces, be transferred by contact etc, that is a secondary transfer vector.
The verification for thise assumptions is that aerosol vectored coronavirus/ flu / rhinovirus decline in summer with the increase in humidity i.e. they are inversely proportional to humidity.
If the common cold was not primarily aerosol transferred it would not decline with an increase in humidity.
Again look at the posted link, it has chapter and verse.

55278 Gracie, #1134 of 1198 🔗

A possible song-title suggestion which would include both visage and and arse-covering scenarios:

Sit on my face (and tell me that you love me) by M. Python

55286 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #1135 of 1198 🔗

It’s getting late, and the Rioja is taking its toll – Annie, can you tturn this into something dear worthwhile please:

March 2020
You must not leave your homes for three weeks, while we ensure the NHS can cope with the looming crisis
It’s your civic duty, as a responsible citizen
April 2020
You must continue to stay at home, not visit friends or family, not go to school
It’s your civic duty, as a responsible citizen
July 2020
You must wear a mask when in a public place
It’s your civic duty, as a responsible citizen
October 2021
“Masks are compulsory in all places until March – it’s the flu season”
It’s your civic duty, as a responsible citizen
March 2022
“I know the Covid vaccine hasn’t been fully tested, but the Science says it’s safe – of course, it’s only effective if everybody takes it.“
It’s your civic duty, as a responsible citizen
March 2023
“Congratulations, dear, on the birth of your 2nd child – now here’s your infertility pill, to save the planet from overcrowding.”
It’s your civic duty, as a responsible citizen
March 2024
“Sorry dear, your Mum is 85, and she failed the ‘Value for Money’ test – she must make way for others. It’s time for her final pill.”
It’s her civic duty, as a responsible citizen

55291 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to BTLnewbie, 12, #1136 of 1198 🔗

I listened back to podcasts from early/mid March and you are right at that point it was going to be a few weeks of lockup to allow The NHS to cope with the peak.

Now we are slowly loosing our freedoms, small steps, but people are say well you got to do it to protect everyone.

The steps will get larger.

We need to wake people, before it is too late.

55384 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1137 of 1198 🔗

3 weeks to flatten the curve. Never lose sight of that.

55337 ▶▶ annie, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #1138 of 1198 🔗

I don’t think I could put it any better!

55391 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to BTLnewbie, #1139 of 1198 🔗

F**k how scary is that!!!

55290 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 14, #1140 of 1198 🔗

I don’t actually want a public enquiry any time soon- not while the group think mania is still in overdrive. I want it when the dust has settled, when data Is indisputable of actual excess deaths OF CoVid as opposed to those caused by the LD such that it’s clear what an absolute overreaction and cruel farce this whole LD charade has been and the full impact of the LD’s negative consequences- economic, social and medical are known . Once the hysteria has dissipated, the cold hard facts will be unavoidable. That’s my hope anyway and it’s clear that rational analysis at this point in time just isn’t possible anyway. As a lawyer what I would like NOW is for judicial review to be granted leave – as I have serious doubts that the ad hoc regulations have been applied properly or with due proportionality. I would urge everyone contributing comments To this site to donate tov S Dolan’s appeal. He’s engaged serious lawyers.

55295 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Telpin, 2, #1141 of 1198 🔗

Modern public inquiries are like the trials that used to take place in England in the 18th century of generals who failed to win battles. They weren’t real trials. And the modern inquiry is anything but a real inquiry. The purpose of a modern inquiry, similar to the trials of the 18th century, is to assign guilt to a predetermined person or organisation

55356 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Telpin, 2, #1142 of 1198 🔗

Good point about waiting until the dust settles and the hysteria is over

55390 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Julian, 1, #1143 of 1198 🔗

The problem is will the hysteria ever be over ?

55374 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Telpin, 1, #1144 of 1198 🔗

Still supporting Dolan here.

55385 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Telpin, 1, #1145 of 1198 🔗

The whitewash tanker trucks are already on readiness though.

55292 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 14, #1146 of 1198 🔗

Things we do know:

1. No country in the Far East ever imposed a total national lockdown. Such lockdowns seem to have begun in Europe at the behest of Macron and WHO.

2. The UK government was initially anti-lockdown.

3. Belgium, the country with the worst Covid 19 death rate in the world had an early lockdown.

4. Other countries in the top ten death rate league with lockdown include the UK, France, Italy and Spain.

Anyone wish to continue with things we can be sure of?

55301 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to OKUK, 11, #1147 of 1198 🔗

Singapore managed to get nosocomial infection in hospitals down to statistical zero for staff by being rabid on soap and water handwashing and ignoring facemasks in hospitals.
Basically they now treat it as a contact transfered infection not aerosol.

55382 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #1148 of 1198 🔗

…and masks, with the apparently inevitable associated fingering, can only increase contact – with everything the muzzled person touches.

55362 ▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 5, #1149 of 1198 🔗

Sweden didn’t have a lockdown, just a few fairly light touch measures and mainly voluntary distancing, and their mortality is not excessive, plus they seem to now be out of the woods. They seem to me to be the clearest argument that what was done and is being done here is wrong and not necessary.

55373 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 9, #1150 of 1198 🔗

You only need look at the bucketloads of slime poured over Sweden and the endless propaganda that they somehow “called it wrong” to understand that they got something right.

55768 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Nick Rose, #1151 of 1198 🔗

The first week of Covid, 75% of the 30 odd deaths were Somali BAME.
Th ethnic status was very carefully NOT collected.after that.
Of course if 75% of Swedens deaths are down to insufficient Vit D and hygeine in people who cover up in the sun, it really knocks the Sweden got it wrong propaganda.

55565 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to OKUK, #1152 of 1198 🔗

This is an excellent summary of the whole debacle

When you have ‘professors’ coming out NOW saying that severe lockdowns should be reimposed to ‘crush the curve’, we can confirm beyond all doubt that this isn’t about combating a virus pandemic. Watch and weep, bit lengthy but worth it. Covers the excess death issue too…..figures being fiddled.

55314 Lockdown_Lunacy, 10, #1153 of 1198 🔗

Popped into my local ASDA for a few bits today. Mask wearers still a small minority but some notable things:

When I walked in the wrong direction down one of the ‘one way’ aisles, a masked woman literally froze in fear as I walked towards her! Sad and amusing in equal measure.

Unfortunately, I saw a mother with a masked child, the boy can’t have been older than 7 or 8, very sad, and this really annoyed both me and my wife.

55329 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 13, #1154 of 1198 🔗

I hope that Toby while on holiday will have time to take stock about where we are and where we are going…and what needs to be done.

My political memory stretches back (just about) to the JFK asssassination and my judgement is that this is the worst national crisis ever in my time – not just for this country but for the wider “natural alliance” of democratic states on the planet.

The response of Johnson and the Conservatives has been so woeful as to make me think the times call for a more coherent, more populist and more rational party. Can anyone still vote Conservative with confidence about what they’re getting? I doubt it.

55355 ▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, 14, #1155 of 1198 🔗

I’ve never been enthusiastic about any of the parties I have voted for and it has always been on the basis of choosing the least bad, out of a sense of duty

Peter Hitchens has for years advocated not voting, for small-c conservatives, in order to destroy the Conservative party and allow the emergence of a new force that represents conservative views

I used to think he was wrong, but this government has changed my mind

Labour would have been worse, but the PM is not fit for office and at least a properly conservative party would have provided better opposition, which has been sorely lacking

A new party is needed

55359 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Julian, 7, #1156 of 1198 🔗

I agree with you. I always thought Peter Hitchens was wrong on this but I now subscribe to his view.

I believed I had a duty to vote, as my forebears fought wars in order to ensure my liberty. But now, I am politically homeless. As far as I see it, there is no point in voting, even for those who are less bad than the others. As far as I am concerned they are all as bad as each other. There is no Conservative Party at the moment.

I hope someone emerges to form a new party, but who will that be …?

55361 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to kh1485, 4, #1157 of 1198 🔗

Probably easier to start and sustain a single issue party like UKIP. But even starting that must have been a struggle. Would be interesting to know the history.

A series of defections by existing MPs would help, but there’s not been much sign of life from them recently.

55413 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 3, #1158 of 1198 🔗

Voters turned their back on Labour, because they were going to wreck the country, and their ‘free everything’ policies were laughable.
Look what happened…

55372 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 4, #1159 of 1198 🔗

Peter Hitchens was too early with this, but probably spoke at the right time to plant the idea in people’s heads. This past few months have hopefully seen the seed germinate. We could also do with replacing the Labour Party with something that speaks for the people of this country, instead of every other country, too.

55375 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1160 of 1198 🔗

Good point about Labour – if I were a bit more that way inclined I’d be pretty disgusted with them too – I might lean more towards the SDP.

55429 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nick Rose, #1161 of 1198 🔗

I think I actually didn’t *want* to believe he was right …

55336 Jane, replying to Jane, #1162 of 1198 🔗

“However, apart from the fact that the deceased was nearly 94 and could therefore quite easily have died at any time just from old age,”

Toby, Toby . . . no one dies of “just old age.” This is not a cause of death. This is not allowed as a cause of death on the American Blue Form. No matter how old a person is when she dies, there is a physiological cause and it is not “old age”: heart failure, respiratory failure—something. Since you are now a quasi-medical writer, it is important for you to understand WHY allwowing “old age” as a cause of death is a very bad idea, rife with potential for abuse of the elderly, namely, offing them for a number of reasons, such as “need to get mitts on the money now,” rejecting an autopsy, and an obliging coroner writes “old age.”

Do you see what I mean? I hope it is obvious.

55367 ▶▶ steve, replying to Jane, 6, #1163 of 1198 🔗

Allowing people who die of heart attack, cancer etc to be listed as died of the mystery Covid allows potential for abuse as well

55377 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Jane, 2, #1164 of 1198 🔗

In Britain it is allowed:

‘Old age’ should only be given as the sole cause of death in very limited circumstances. These are where there’s no reason that the death should be reported to the coroner and the certifying doctor:

  • personally cared for the deceased over a long period (years or many months), and
  • observed a gradual decline in the deceased’s general health and functioning, and
  • is not aware of any identifiable disease or injury that contributed to the death.


55907 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jane, #1165 of 1198 🔗

If ‘natural causes’ is a cause of death, then ‘old age’ is too.

55351 Graham, replying to Graham, 20, #1166 of 1198 🔗

Short report from Heathrow Terminal 5. I am not wearing a mask but I have a disability Horizons badge and lanyard saying Mask Exempt. So far no trouble at all. Everyone has been friendly and courteous and nobody has questioned my right not to wear a mask. I have dropped my baggage and gone through security. Let’s see what it’s like boarding the plane. Off to Iceland for some riding, by the way.

55358 ▶▶ Graham, replying to Graham, 16, #1167 of 1198 🔗

I’m now on the plane and still maskless. The attendant at the entrance handed me a mask and asked me politely to put it on and I showed him the badge and said I was exempt and was waved through. I seem to be the only person without a mask, and that was true in the terminal too.

55369 JustMe, replying to JustMe, 5, #1168 of 1198 🔗


Been aht an abaht on mi travels today.

1. Talking to a lady – she tells me that her granddaughter works at the LGI [Leeds General Infirmary] and they have no-one in the Covid ward.

2. Talking to a nurse from the Huddersfield Royal Infirmary ICU ward – not had a single Covid-19 patient for 4 weeks.


Huddersfield is in Kirklees, the area with the second highest spike in positive test results. So clearly those that are testing positive aren’t poorly enough to need hospital treatment.

So what are all those NHS bods on the dedicated Covid wards doing?

Why aren’t we being told this by the govmnt or the MSM?

And what is this all about? What is the big aim?

Just reportin’ what i’s been told.

55905 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to JustMe, #1169 of 1198 🔗

I hear an ambulance siren at least once a day around here. In pre-covid times it was maybe once a week. (I too am in yorkshire).

Considering what we all know is true about lack of covid cases and empty hospitals, I think what the ‘Surrey doctor’ said about empty am ambulances driving around with sirens on is probably true.

55376 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 3, #1170 of 1198 🔗


I’d love to go back to my local chippie or pizza takeaway and pay cash…but not if they enforce mask-wearing on the premises.

Maybe we could agree a quid pro quo:- we will come and spend cash in your shop if we can do it without wearing a mask.

55393 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, #1171 of 1198 🔗

Not yet had opportunity to use this idea as i am getting about without a mask happliy at present, but up my sleeve is to call from a door way for goods to be briught to me. Cash in my pocket ready to pay. If tgey wont let me in I am prepared to make a happy fuss to show the shop their absurdity. But at present only Aldi have acted usd a bouncer in an intimidating fashion towards me – no future custom ever will occur as a result. That is Aldi. The odd shop out in my experience.

55406 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, #1172 of 1198 🔗

We do the bulk of our weekly shop at Aldi, plus I call in regularly for booze and bits. Checkout guy told me the other day, that staff will have to wear muzzles on the shop floor, but not at tills or in warehouse.
If the “severe distress” defence doesn’t work, they will lose our custom. But, I fear there are too many sheep for it to make a difference.

55417 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, #1173 of 1198 🔗

Good luck to you. I rated Aldi prior to this. They employed a retired thug to stand in the way of each customer and vet them on entry. Germany has a history of that, not in Britain. Happily Lidl and many many other places don’t care in the least what I do. Aldi lost a customer.

55456 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 1, #1174 of 1198 🔗

You see loads of folk doing just what we do – get all you can at Aldi, then nip round to Asda for the other bits. Aldi has massively reduced our shopping bill, but they will lose us if they do this. Fortunately, Lidl is just a few mins away, and it’s on the way to Home Bargains, who have been very good so far. Got my best voting feet on.

55902 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Gillian, #1175 of 1198 🔗

I’ve done the phone call ahead thing a few times now and it’s worked every time, we’ll see if that chances come next weekend 😐

Otherwise I’m willing to go and walk away once challenged. In the event I can’t help it (getting an eye test) I’m gonna make multiple appointments and take the piss until someone allows me to take mask off for a hassle free appointment. (I will mutter so I am inaudible so they will have to make me take it off).

55380 Barney McGrew, 5, #1176 of 1198 🔗

If you read news reports about a surge of infections in this town, or a spike at a factory in that town, or R having drifted over 1, it is very quickly apparent that the ‘second wave’ is now taken to be a fact . You and I may query whether it is an artefact of increased testing or false positives, and we may try to argue that the seriousness of ‘cases’ is reducing over time etc. but no one will be listening.

You could try to engage your friends and family in a discussion, but you will come across as a tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy theorist. A scientifically-literate friend of mine who nevertheless believes that Covid is incredibly dangerous and is very pro-mask, said she was ‘worried’ about me. It’s a very strange, frustrating position we’re in.

I saw a film about a dystopian future yesterday called ‘The White King’, and it really did resonate with me. It occurs to me that if the film was in cinemas now, most of the audience would claim to understand it, but would happily be wearing a badge of compliance (a mask) as they watched it…

55387 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 5, #1177 of 1198 🔗

Re. The wearing of masks which I cannot believe everyone really wants to do, obviously nobody on here! I don’t know why the government doesn’t just have a time that they are exempt, maybe until 12 each day to let the people that know it’s pointless to shop without this farce. Then everyone that believes the government bullsh#t can wonder around masked up all afternoon in “safety”.
Would be better in my view than destroying millions of people’s mental health. Also give retail a hope of improving.
Would be better if the government stopped acting like halfwits, but too far down the road for that to happen.

55389 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John Ballard, 8, #1178 of 1198 🔗

It would certainly be less impractial than what we have now. Peter Hitchens suggested something similar for trains.

The trouble is, the masks are not for health reasons, nor are they to reassure the fearful (they will have the opposite effect). They are to perpetuate the atmosphere of fear and cover up the overreaction. If we get back to normal and the sky doesn’t fall in, people will ask what it was all for. The government cannot afford to stop now. They are in too deep.

55933 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Julian, 1, #1179 of 1198 🔗

I’ve been thinking along the same lines. If everything got back to normal and the number of people dying from the virus continued to fall it wouldn’t look good for those people who backed the lockdown. Better to make mask wearing compulsory and then if things go well it can be said it is all down to the mask wearing! I’m sure subconsciously that’s why they are so keen to back the policy.

55392 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to John Ballard, 4, #1180 of 1198 🔗

But the twist with masks is that you don’t wear them for your own safety, meaning that the freedom of the individual is not even an argument. They’ve got that covered. The person who doesn’t wear a mask is just selfish, if not a murderer of grannies.

55403 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1181 of 1198 🔗

Simply wearing two masks ought to stop that idea of its to save others not yourself. I mean reality and logic are not a factor any longer. If a mask doesnt stop inbound virus simply turn it inside out, for outboundwear a second the right way round. The same applies to cotton sog masks and winter snoods equally. The law of basics.

55398 ▶▶ Basics, replying to John Ballard, 1, #1182 of 1198 🔗

Simply if there was an unmasking happy hour it’s popularity would demonstrate masks are not popular.

Secondly, policing the happy stsrt and end of hour would be imoossible with social shaming incidents getting more confused.

Both are reasons for the draconian blanket.

55388 Melangell, replying to Melangell, 1, #1183 of 1198 🔗

Can anyone suggest how one can avoid being forced to use hand sanitizers on entering a shop? There aren’t many decent delis in gwlag Wales but I went into the only one good one near me yesterday, ignored the notice to slather chemicals all over myself and got snapped at by the owner. I told her sweetly but firmly that “I’m allergic” and marched in, only to be glared at the whole time. I usually don’t have to give any explanations but it’s a tiny shop and I was the only customer at the time so my rebelliousness stood out. Does a shopkeeper have a right to refuse service to someone not willing to strew the goo? I ask partly because I would like to let my equally sceptical friends and neighbours know.

55766 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Melangell, 1, #1184 of 1198 🔗

Ask to see the risk assessment performed before dousing with chemicals. Bet there are big warning labels all over the bottle

55875 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Melangell, 1, #1185 of 1198 🔗

Your response is “haven’t you heard? Hand sanitizer causes cancer. It said so on the BBC last night. More than 50 applications and you’re a goner.”

Fight fear with fear.

(And actually, I bet if you looked up all the petrochemical derivatives in hand sanitizer, you’d probably find most are known carcinogens and excessive use will definitely increase your risk.)

55394 DRW, 2, #1186 of 1198 🔗

Felt better after going to my favourite pub last night, first visit since January. Antisocial distancing, hand gel, sign in and one way system encouraged but not enforced. Less tables inside but no plastic screens or tape. Staff were friendly and seemed very happy to be serving again- none wore visors. Everyone was behaving normally, such a refreshingly relaxed atmosphere. Not quite normal, but close enough and I’ll coming back regularly to get away from it all.

55407 FiFiTrixabelle, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 4, #1187 of 1198 🔗

Morning All!

I found this research paper. May well have been posted before so apologies if so. I will now pop it up on the Forum (once I’ve worked out how I get in!). It’s a randomised trial of cloth masks v medical masks in Healthcare settings, upshot is they cause more harm than good. No surprise there.
My experience in Scotland over last couple of days is everyone is wearing one in shops. You just have to be brave. No one questioned me yesterday when I walked in without one.


55420 ▶▶ Basics, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #1188 of 1198 🔗

I think the Forums are not quite letting folk in as yet? Not certain where they are up to. They are a new addition.

55432 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 1, #1189 of 1198 🔗

Im in and several others too. You should just be able to log in using your password and username for this site. It’s pretty quiet in there at the moment (except for a load of spam overnight), but if Toby’s on holiday for a while and not updating, we probably need to get used to the fora because the main page is going to become completely unusable any second now.

55411 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #1190 of 1198 🔗

Frank Furedi in The Sun says:

It’s no use letting fear ruin the rest of our lives

and indeed this, I think, is where we’re at. There was an article by Joel-somebody in the Guardian the other day that was basically saying “Please wear a small piece of cloth on your face so we can stop get back to normal as soon as possible”, but that’s not how it works. The lockdown and the continual hyping of the disease is producing a self-reinforcing, existential threat. Those who opposed the lockdown and are opposing mask wearing are aware of this. Those who embrace lockdown culture are not.

55419 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1191 of 1198 🔗

I think that hits the nail firmly on the head! If only those who embrace lockdown could somehow be persuaded to see things that way, we’d be back to normal in no time.

55637 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1192 of 1198 🔗

that’s not how it works.”

Exactly. Simply avoiding sources of anxiety *never* cures the basic problem. It’s that simple.

But, of course – keep people primed with the lingering anxiety (i.e willing to wear face masks), and you have a powerful psychological weapon.

55495 Nobody2020, #1193 of 1198 🔗

They need modelling to show the effects of quarantining all visitors?
How New Zealand could keep eliminating coronavirus at its border for months to come, even as the global pandemic worsens

Each week, about 12 people have arrived carrying the virus. Provided people are well separated at quarantine facilities and have regular symptom checks, our modelling suggests the risk of an infectious person being released into the community is around 0.1% — which means for every 1000 infected people who arrive at the border, one person will be released from quarantine while still infectious.

And now opening up borders could be dependant on giving up some freedoms:

The dilemma New Zealand now faces is whether to continue to enjoy Level 1 freedoms within closed borders or to open borders with more restrictions on what we can do. We could, for instance, allow quarantine-free travel from certain countries. But this might require us to implement Level 2 restrictions (including limits on the size of gatherings) to reduce the risk of superspreading events.

55508 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #1194 of 1198 🔗

I am obliged to wear a paper mask at work for fear of being denounced. The footfall in the surgery has decreased but unlike some surgeries we are not hiding in the wardrobe . We still see quite a few face to face after telephone triage. I can deal with quite a few problems by video or telephone consults. I had three of the 15 I saw face to face yesterday sympathising with me because I had to wear a mask all day. I have to be careful in my reply. One of my patients volunteered that they wouldn’t be shopping from next Friday and had instead registered for click and collect.

Went to the local cafe for lunch. Request for my name and number . Quite easy to think up a name , I went for Piers Morgan this time . The young waiting staff pulling their masks up and down faster than a French tarts knickers

Briefly flicked through the death certificate book . Several indicated Covid19 from April. All from the same dementia home. None since then . Why are we still locked down ?

55518 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #1195 of 1198 🔗

“Why are we still locked down ?”

Because like a Friday the 13th film, there’s always the threat that somebody will make a sequel.

Although Boris’s “Prepare for the worst, hope for the best” suggests, to me at least, that he’s considering other lines of thought on how the virus will progress.

55792 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Peter Thompson, #1196 of 1198 🔗

Why are we still locked down ?

Great question

55528 Basics, 6, #1197 of 1198 🔗

In the beginning I used to wake up each morning with a few moments of the sense it was all a bad dream and then soon after consciously realise it wasn’t and this was my reality, our reality.

That no longer happens.

Now, at some time after I wake up, not immediately, some times hours later, I remember that we are pretending there is a real threat to everyone of us, unseen and unexperienced. It is a giant pretence I am obliged to take part in.

These two comparible psychological states are both involuntary.

Just remarking.

55764 Michel, #1198 of 1198 🔗

We don’t have a tv set, nor radio or newspaper, so we only learned yesterday that France too will make facemasks compulsory…sigh…may I make a themesong suggestion? How about “Spirit got lost” by Mental as Anything? “Economy’s down and your mind isn’t sound, and your body’s an empty shell” seems to be appropriate…


190 users made 1,154 comments today.

312Julian18, 23, 26, 23, 9, 11, 13, 1, 2, 2, 8, 17, 0, 5, 2, 7, 9, 7, 7, 1, 1, 7, 0, 2, 17, 3, 10, 5, 2, 3, 0, 10, 7, 11, 4, 3, 1, 2, 5, 14, 4, 2, 8
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38microdave5, 9, 3, 4, 0, 13, 4
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16David Mc16, 0
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15MariaSpinola15, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
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-42Mark B-41, -1
-72peter-34, -38