Last updated2020-07-24T07:58:53



59228 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 30, #1 of 1148 🔗

Thanks Toby!
The trevor Kavanagh article is awesome. Good for the widely-read Sun!

59266 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 32, #2 of 1148 🔗

Yeah, and look at. the comments. Those from zombies have been sturdily down-voted.
If the Page 3 masses are revolting (…) there is hope!

59294 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 11, #3 of 1148 🔗

Hope is out there!

59368 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 8, #4 of 1148 🔗

Those comments are encouraging, your right. Amazing coming from Sun readers.

59828 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Two-Six, 1, #5 of 1148 🔗

Why ‘amazing’ from Sun readers?

59938 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bugle, #6 of 1148 🔗

Why? lol

59279 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 47, #7 of 1148 🔗

That was an excellent article and this pretty much describes well what I’ve been seeing:

This is the fabled Square Mile, the global financial hub which, pre-Covid, generated half a trillion pounds a year — 25 per cent of the nation’s wealth.

The capital usually attracts 500,000 visitors a day.

Today it’s a ghost town, lucky to get 5,000.

High-rise office blocks are empty. Street level stores, restaurants and coffee shops are locked and barred, some for ever.

In pre-Covid times, you were rarely more than a couple of feet from someone in a hurry. Today you could fire a machine gun at rush hour and hit no one.

Should be circulated more widely and the architects of this shit-show should be forced to read this.

59290 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Cheezilla, 23, #8 of 1148 🔗

The article states : Health experts have derailed Britain’s post-Covid recovery and transformed us into faceless paranoid creatures. But it’s not the health experts that have mandated compulsory muzzling – in fact they have been very circumspect about the benefits of face nappies. I believe this has been mandated because of perceived public opinion. Excellent article though.

59340 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to HelzBelz, 19, #9 of 1148 🔗

Fair point. But most of the Covicrap has originated with health ‘experts’. Who are actually killers, of mind, body and spirit.

59470 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to annie, 17, #10 of 1148 🔗

The health “experts” are hand picked for the advice they are expected to give to fit the “narrative”. Like the dodgy dossier.

59675 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 6, #11 of 1148 🔗

Puritan oppressors, masquerading as our liberators.

59460 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HelzBelz, 1, #12 of 1148 🔗

In a dramatic U-turn, US President Donald Trump has …… urged Americans to wear face masks …..
“We are asking everybody that when you are not able to socially distance, wear a mask,” he said. “Whether you like the mask or not, they have an impact. They will have an effect and we need everything we can get.”

Torygraph live 9.46am

59545 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #13 of 1148 🔗

and so trump plays us

just like the rest of the political establishmet

59582 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #14 of 1148 🔗

Yup, I was disappointed to hear Trump succumb to the mere exposure effect

60213 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to IMoz, 4, #15 of 1148 🔗

More likely it is Trump playing the US press.
They automatically oppose everything he says, so now that he has said face masks are ok, they will attempt to discredit facemasks.
Remember the only reason the US left wing backed muzzles is because Trump opposed blanket use of them.

59526 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to HelzBelz, 5, #16 of 1148 🔗

Perceived public opinion and lobby groups working against us to force social change…masks4all.org.uk

59570 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #17 of 1148 🔗

It’s all out of the SPI-B playbook. The ‘health experts’ just take the money and spout the nonsense. Contradictory is fine – just leaves us all more confused and feeling powerless. Remember though that we’re not!

59366 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #18 of 1148 🔗

About time The Sun printed something like this. The BASTARDS.
At this stage, I really think I have almost stopped caring. Everything is really really broken. It’s too late. Anything I can do is futile. The people need to live with what they have created. The people need to get themselves out of this.
To hell with it all.

59465 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 9, #19 of 1148 🔗

Not futile! We are not alone. That’s becoming increasingly obvious.
Our quiet resistance sets an example. Talk to people, educate them. Many just need to know they are not alone either.

59537 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 8, #20 of 1148 🔗

Get outside. Breathe. Stop trying to fix world, fix yourself first. 🙂

59593 ▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to JohnB, 1, #21 of 1148 🔗

This comment deserves three gold stars!!!

59614 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Two-Six, 4, #22 of 1148 🔗

On the rare occasion I look at The Sun comments section it looks like it is populated by uneducated / or paid trolls who put down any lockdown sceptics with a barrage of abuse and threats. I wonder if this is the work of the 77th Brigade? or if the readers are really like this?

59229 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #23 of 1148 🔗


Hardin Co. couple gets ankle monitors after COVID-19 quarrel with health dept. – wkyt.com

59468 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #24 of 1148 🔗

Land of the free?
Home of the brave – or the deluded.

59230 HawkAnalyst, 4, #25 of 1148 🔗
59232 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #26 of 1148 🔗

Hospitals failed to test staff for coronavirus because they feared sending too many home, MPs told


59477 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #27 of 1148 🔗

They could write the definitive textbook on how NOT to handle an epidemic!

59529 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, #28 of 1148 🔗

Y o u ‘ d e v e n t h i n k i t w a s p a r t o f a p l a n . . .

59234 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 15, #29 of 1148 🔗

Why is the Chancellor giving teachers a pay rise for failing to teach our children? AND COMMENTS


59264 ▶▶ annie, replying to HawkAnalyst, #30 of 1148 🔗

Please quote one or two.

59273 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to annie, 29, #31 of 1148 🔗

Top two comments:

“What is Sunak thinking! Rewarding one of the key sectors of which the majority failed dismally to do their jobs during the pandemic. So many other people have lost all their income or taken large cuts, as well as so many trying to work as well as teach and care for their children.
I fear that those being paid by the public purse are faring too well and those in the private sector too badly. This is a new divide.”

“Good article. This Government is becoming more Socialist by the day – throwing taxpayers money around like confetti to the Public Sector who don’t deserve it.”

59274 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mike Smith, 7, #32 of 1148 🔗

Agree 100% re teachers but can’t agree with the blanket public vs private sector statement. Far too simplistic.

I know tradesmen that have said they are folding their companies the very second the bounce back loans are recalled. I also know minimum wage local authority carers that have been truly shat on.

59277 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tom Blackburn, 35, #33 of 1148 🔗

I applied for one of those loans two months ago: I am still waiting.

It irritates the hell out of me that I am working my arse off trying to claw back my losses, yet have to run the gauntlet of hearing public sector workers bragging about how lovely it is to work from home and how they won’t be back in their offices until the New Year.

59278 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to kh1485, 15, #34 of 1148 🔗

It irritates the hell out of me too but as I was saying, there are public sector workers that have worked through this as well (properly – not from home). If I had my way, I’d end furlough and recall all loans tomorrow. See how anxious everyone is about returning to work then…..

Rishi doesn’t do it for me I am afraid.

59281 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tom Blackburn, 24, #35 of 1148 🔗

OK, fair enough, I take your point. It’s just that all the ones I have encountered are enjoying this all a bit too much. And I don’t appreciate, at a time when I am having to work a lot harder, through absolutely no fault of my own, various council workers coming into my shop wittering on about how lovely it is to work from their gardens.

Agree about Rishi, but then the whole damned government have lost the plot entirely. I feel like we are being governed by a load of bloody inept school boys. Oh for the days when we had politicians with gravitas.

59291 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to kh1485, 13, #36 of 1148 🔗

Agreed. Teachers are top of my ‘hit list’ as they’ve been having a jolly at the expense of the development of our nation’s children. How they can accept that pay rise with a straight face beggars belief.

Regarding the politicians – the term Augean stable springs to mind.

59295 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #37 of 1148 🔗

Augean Stables applies to the entire Establishment as far as I’m concerned! Neither has one single area of our public sector proven itself fit for purpose. I accept many good people work within it, but severe overhaul is long, long overdue.

59296 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #38 of 1148 🔗

I suspect Sunak is trying to soften them up so that they don’t refuse to go back in Sept on the excuse that it’s ‘not safe’. It won’t work – the more they are given, the more they will want…

59891 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to HelzBelz, 1, #39 of 1148 🔗

Quangos, Charities, MPs, Public Health England and the National Health Service immediately spring to mind. Feel free to add to the list.

59304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #40 of 1148 🔗

Just to mention tthe implication of the Dolan case ruling – schools were never shut. Too much for my brain, but exactly why were teachers not showing up for work?

59893 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #41 of 1148 🔗


59316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #42 of 1148 🔗

Oh yes. Politicians? They haven’t got a pair of balls between them. (Sorry for vulgarity but mightily pissed off atm!)

59908 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to kh1485, 2, #43 of 1148 🔗

If you get a chance, listen to PMs questions from today.

Winnie the Pooh features, is this government in Britain in the 2020.

On the other hand maybe not listen until your blood is at a bit less pressure.

59527 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, #44 of 1148 🔗

Some teachers have been working throughout, of course.

59651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to JohnB, 2, #45 of 1148 🔗

Yes, my daughter-in-law is a reception class teacher. She has been working throughout and has been providing work for her pupils who have not been in school, something which is very difficult to do for reception class children. As we have been caring for our reception-aged grandson throughout lockdown, she has also been sending work for him to do as his own school has sent nothing.

59447 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 6, #46 of 1148 🔗

The whole cabinet are worse than the idiots we see on “The Apprentice”

59976 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Two-Six, 1, #47 of 1148 🔗

I know. They couldn’t run a bloody bath …

60012 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to kh1485, 1, #48 of 1148 🔗

kh why don’t you have a pricing policy for council workers who smugly work from their back garden pay more, and those in private sector pay less and more reduction if lost job.
Probably not ethical, legal or feasible but would take the smirk off their faces!

60022 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sue, 3, #49 of 1148 🔗

Oh, I wish!

Someone was in on Saturday and sauntered in with a jaunty “oh, how are things for you now?” I really do think people have swallowed the ‘press pause’ narrative on the economy. And then she prattled on “I’m OK because I can work from home, it’s been really good for me” Does it make me a bad person that I was pleased she couldn’t get a table 😉

59299 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 5, #50 of 1148 🔗

Certain public facing council staff here are due back Oct 1st. I am raising a lynching posse for the afternoon of Oct 1st.

My point. These various start dates are entirely arbitrary to the national need. But everyone already knows that of course.

59473 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #51 of 1148 🔗

I agree with you, the public v private issue is complex, but this is what it will descend into come the Autumn. When some millions from the private sector are made redundant post furlough or compelled to take pay cuts there will be fury at public sector pay rises.

Of course anyone with any sense will be wondering where the money comes from with the inevitable decrease in GDP, decrease in tax revenue and increase in welfare bill.

59482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cicatriz, 4, #52 of 1148 🔗

I’m dreading finding out.

My state pension just about covers stuff like council tax and broadband, plus yearlys like house and car insurance.

It doesn’t come anywhere near covering my very simple everyday living costs and I need to top up a fair chunk each year from my “savings” which will no doubt be plundered.

59518 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #53 of 1148 🔗

Hopefully some of your savings are in gold, Cheese ?

59520 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #54 of 1148 🔗

Those savings could well be inflated away.

Other possibilities include bail-ins, but I’m not sure that will happen as the government bunged money to banks to prop the private sector up (which they dutifully didn’t do).

Don’t worry though, the mask-wearing masses have carefully weighed up all eventualities with even greater diligence than the government.

59453 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #55 of 1148 🔗

I said from the start that the Corona responses have deepened the divide between civil servants and cs final salary pensioners the one hand and the rest.
This was and is even more pronounced in Germany, France etc..
Germany is one of the most indebted countries in the world if public sector pensions were capitalized, for example.

The Lockdown related destructions have already given those
people a 15%+ relative pay rise over most others, not to mention the even more increased safety of it and their income, and a much larger pay rise over those who really suffer and who are constantly asked by these lazy destroyers of their livelihoods to continue to show ‘solidarity’, while they themselves show none.

I have also stated from the start that this will eventually lead to a civil war between the have no mores and the still haves, whose start date Sunak has now just brought forward.

Besides the insulting injustice of this, it is simply not possible to finance, as the crushed private sector will eventuay have to generate all the funds for all government spending and borrowing.
And in the long run, what cannot be cannot be.

59630 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #56 of 1148 🔗

Interesting look at the money on Jeremy Vines show just now.
If you earn £1 per second it would take 11 days to earn £1 million.
To earn £1 billion (UK presumably) would take 34 years, scary

59326 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to HawkAnalyst, 13, #57 of 1148 🔗

I have two children in school. One doing A Levels and one should have sat GCSE’s. Only two teachers out of about 12 seem to be spending a reasonable amount of time engaging with the children on a regular basis. One other is producing some sort of work and nothing from the rest. It’s disgusting.

59381 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #58 of 1148 🔗

Schools are crap. Look at the millions of high-calibre of brainwashed idiot they have filled the country with. Obedient compliant drones with no knowledge of anything that matters, no critical thinkers.
I really think that if millions of people just took their kids out of school and home-schooled in 10 years time we might see a renascence in the standard of education of our young people.
Schools are like prisons for children, even more so now. I would not send any child of mine to any school now. I feel lucky we don’t have any children. Really.

59480 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Two-Six, 8, #59 of 1148 🔗

I homeschooled my son for just over a year and with little effort he was way ahead (at least a year) when he returned.

Plus, I really don’t want them to go to university because of all the bull shot that’s going on in them at the moment…

59643 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Lockdown Truth, #60 of 1148 🔗

People come out of university now more stupid than they went in.They cant even say what a woman is.

59635 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to HawkAnalyst, #61 of 1148 🔗

I fail to understand why the left wing teacher unions hate the Tory government so much. This Tory government is so left wing they should be applauding them. Mrs Thatcher would have given them performance related pay. That would have resulted in an 80% pay cut.

59235 HawkAnalyst, 7, #62 of 1148 🔗

The teachers who didn’t rise to the challenge should give their pay rise to the unsung carers COMMENTS


59236 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #63 of 1148 🔗
59239 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to HawkAnalyst, 10, #64 of 1148 🔗

Why would I have “hopes” for a Covid vaccine when that will just create more opportunities for novel pathogens to jump the species barrier?

59350 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to OKUK, 7, #65 of 1148 🔗

Not to mention all the MSM and covhitlers jumping up and down trying to force mandatory vaccination!

59385 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to OKUK, #66 of 1148 🔗

I think this will happen too, although I don’t think the vaccine will actually work at all, so it probably won’t.

59514 ▶▶ RickH, replying to HawkAnalyst, 5, #67 of 1148 🔗

Why would you want an unlikely vaccine for this mild infection?

59237 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #68 of 1148 🔗

Boeing Running Out Of Space For Newly Built 787 Dreamliners


59271 ▶▶ annie, replying to HawkAnalyst, #69 of 1148 🔗

Sad for them.
Hey, did you see this in the same publication?


59238 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 8, #70 of 1148 🔗

Have the Remainiacs given up on reversing Brexit or do they really think they can undermine the Referendum vote with their version of the Russia hoax and get a rerun?

I guess they might have a game plan of getting Starmer’s Labour (ie Blair’s Labour) to cancel the result (with the agreement of the EU) and reinstate our EU membership to be quickly followed by a rigged rerun involving a gerrymandered voting roll which will deliver a Remain victory.

All countries try and influence opinion in other countries. We do it ourselves. We saw during the Referendum campaign that both the US President and the Irish Tsaioeach tried to influence our vote. Whilst I very much dislike such influence it is a fact of life and countries like Saudi Arabia, China, Qatar and Iran have also had a v. insiduous effect on our country’s culture and politics. China’s influence via WHO on how we deal with the Covid epidemic has been very concerning. The focus on Russia has a malign and calculated purpose.

59286 ▶▶ Emma, replying to OKUK, 12, #71 of 1148 🔗

We’ve given up, and accept the shitshow that will ensue, along with the shitshow we’re currently enduring, because people (maybe you?)thought it was a good idea to vote for a known liar and wastrel, and believed his bullshit about £350m for the NHS. There are many of us on this forum who are not dyed in the wool tories, and who wanted to stay part of Europe, so why don’t you cut the insults and focus on the topics.

59308 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Emma, #72 of 1148 🔗

‘cut the insults … shitshow, liar, wastrel, bullshit, toreees’

BJ is of course the new Blair.

Suggested reading, Varoufakis ‘And the Weak Suffer What They Must?’ and Mody ‘Euro Tragedy’ to start.

59415 ▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 3, #73 of 1148 🔗

Your suggested reading is patronising. Stating that Boris is a liar is fact, not insult, and if you don’t think our current situation is a shitshow I wonder what you’re doing haunting these pages.

59318 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Emma, 10, #74 of 1148 🔗

Emma, don’t know if you’ve noticed this before but it may come as a shock to you that Politicians both sides of the divide lie.

You can talk about the “ £350m for the NHS” but what about leaving the EU causing “World War 3” and the many economic scaremongering stories that filled our screen during the lead up.

Even if people didn’t vote for a Politician 1 who is a “known liar and wastrel”, they would’ve only then voted for Politician 2 who is a “known liar and wastrel”.

So what choice do people have? Either way you end up with a shitshow!

59418 ▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to JohnB, -5, #75 of 1148 🔗

No, I voted for Corbyn, and I don’t think many people would accuse him of being a liar or a wastrel.

59425 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Emma, 1, #76 of 1148 🔗

What an extraordinarily idiotic comment – what about, just as a starter all his lies related to the anti-semitism issue and his support for terrorist organisations? He is one of the vilest, most hate-filled liars in the country!

59429 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to IanE, 6, #77 of 1148 🔗

You clearly need to stop swallowing the narrative on that, as you have done on Covid.

59455 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to IanE, 10, #78 of 1148 🔗

This “Corbyn is an anti-semite” trope has pretty much got us into this mess. Pushed by every media platform in the elections Enabling a Tory landslide, giving them total control to roll out their fascistic agenda.

Corbyn is not an anti Semite, he is just critical of the state of Israel and the way they treat Palestinians.

59519 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, 6, #79 of 1148 🔗

It was actually the similarity of the establishment media falsifications about Corbyn that primed me to be alert when the same sort of fabrications and decontextualised exaggerations began to emerge over Covid.

When you see the dirty fingermarks of the security infrastructure all over a narrative – be it two ex-heads of MI6 dancing in partnership , a SAGE propaganda sub-group or 77th Brigade – you should start sniffing for dead cats.

59650 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Two-Six, #80 of 1148 🔗

He also just happened to support every past communist regime like Cuba and Venezuala. The man is an utter scum bag and I met him a few times when I was much younger and he was the same then as was McDonnell and Abbot.

59445 ▶▶▶▶▶ phil4nthrope, replying to Emma, #81 of 1148 🔗

Lest you forget Emma, Corbyn’s response to BoJo’s lunacy was to say “see? This insane spending in emergency circumstances totally justifies my economic policy”

I spoiled my ballot in the last election as I couldn’t endorse the tories either but Corbyn would be leading us into economic oblivion faster if anything, and that’s ignoring issues such as the proposal to let non british citizens vote in general elections which was put unveiled at the labour party conference. Many are angry with Johnson but it’s not like there was a good alternative.

59646 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Emma, #82 of 1148 🔗

Well you have him in the persona of Johnson so be glad.

59351 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Emma, 2, #83 of 1148 🔗

Ye gods, not the £350m story again – this had no influence on the outcome of the vote AND it has been adjudicated as typical politico-speak. By comparison, the lies and Project Fear from the Remoaners undoubtedly scared some folk into supporting staying in the EUrinal.

59426 ▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to IanE, #84 of 1148 🔗

Remoaners, remainiacs, EUrinal, ‘it has been adjudicated’ ffs grow up.

59554 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Emma, 7, #85 of 1148 🔗

Emma. I am glad you post to LS. The same for ian and Julian skipper and all.
Each of you make this page stronger by differences. Thanks to each of you for adding to my own gloomy 2020. Not so keen on arguements because here on LS at least we have more more in common than what devides us, as the saying goes. But genuinely I appreciate all comments – i even miss grantm.

59378 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Emma, 12, #86 of 1148 🔗

I’m not dyed in the wool, but did vote Tory last time out, and voted Leave. They have been a huge disappointment, but can you honestly say we would be better off, in relation to covid, under any other party? Or if we were staying in the EU? I think that’s a tough argument to make stick.

Anyway, there are few enough of us that I think we should try to focus on what unites us rather than what divides us. If Corbyn came back as leader, recognised lockdown had been a huge mistake and promised to get back to normal, now, and I really believed he’d do it, I would vote for him. Ditto for any other party. This virus madness seems a million times more important than every other political question, to me, at the moment.

59422 ▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to Julian, 3, #87 of 1148 🔗

It’s academic isn’t it? Who knows. I do think if you voted for Boris, and then he turns out to be useless, lazy and incompetent, well what did you expect? Maybe Corbyn would have taken the same path, but I don’t think he would have lied and dissembled his way through the last four months.

59423 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Emma, 3, #88 of 1148 🔗

They’re all the same, how can you be so naive?

59515 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JohnB, 9, #89 of 1148 🔗

I think party politics is totally irrelevant now.Whoever was in charge I think we would have the same outcome.Has the labour response in wales or the SNP in Scotland been any different.Even the Brexit argument is redundant now.The divide is now between authoritarians and libertarians.

59549 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #90 of 1148 🔗

Hear hear.

59618 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #91 of 1148 🔗

If there is ever to be another general election, what will be the turnout? A record low is my prediction.

59648 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Simon Dutton, #92 of 1148 🔗

All depends on the economic fallout.People who have lost jobs and homes are unlikely to be apathetic.And if they allow us to vote again.

59427 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Emma, 2, #93 of 1148 🔗

I didn’t expect miracles from him, certainly. Corbyn may be more honest, I just disagreed with a lot of his policies. Labour have been pretty solidly pro-lockdown etc. Anyway, as you say, academic, would rather focus on where to go from here.

59436 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to Julian, 3, #94 of 1148 🔗

I agree, Starmer is also a disappointment but then I didn’t vote for him.

59895 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Emma, 1, #95 of 1148 🔗

It would be hard to imagine anyone more bungling and incompetent than the government we have but at least they are trying to get out of it. There’s a bigger risk with a Corbyn government that they would have used the situation as an excuse for cash raids of the “rich”.

59456 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, -1, #96 of 1148 🔗

Brexit sowed the seeds for this calamity. It was the thin end of the wedge.

59576 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Two-Six, 2, #97 of 1148 🔗

I’m not sure how you get to that conclusion – maybe you could elaborate? Similar madness exists across the world. But unless it informs where we go from here, maybe it doesn’t matter too much.

59393 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Emma, 7, #98 of 1148 🔗

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS if people vote for a bunch of Fascists who have no opposition. I did try to warn people. Obviously I was just a conspiracy theorist.
I spoiled my ballot paper. Voting is pointless. Our electoral system is totally broken.

59403 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 3, #99 of 1148 🔗

2-6 yes it is broken. You could have said if people dont vote you end up with the same.

Look to the west. Is Biden and Trump the best that 250 million people have? Boris/Corbyn the best we have? It is rigged in the sense that the people are presented with an illusiin of choice, the globalist goals have continuenty with succesive government from either side.

On the point of ww3. It is the politicians of the world that cause the wars. The people of the world are mostly not interested in fighting.

59457 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, #100 of 1148 🔗

A spoilt ballot paper is not the same as a no vote. They are counted.

59548 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, #101 of 1148 🔗

Yes spoilt are counted. But ineffectual. If people spoil or don’t vote the result will be the same. Not at all to criticise anyone who does either.

The citizens assemblies are another example of the pointlessness. Democracy is broken. Put selected (ahem at random) public groups in charge of policy. Pump selected citizens with government ‘independent’ information to guide their choice. Then get a policy decided upon by 1000 citizens. The system of governance remains broken.

I say spoilt vote or no vote amount to the same as voting for a party. Taxes up with less to show for them. More national debt, less freedom and wars carried out in our nations names.

59579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 3, #102 of 1148 🔗

Hitchens theory was that if enough people stopped voting Conservative, that party would die or be replaced or reborn by a small-c conservative party that reflected people’s conservative views. Sort of what UKIP did in a way – forced their hand on a specific issue, by threatening them with electoral irrelevance. It may be too late, and may never have worked, but I think there’s a strong argument that Hitchens was right.

59513 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to OKUK, 9, #103 of 1148 🔗

I voted Remain, and I’m pretty disgusted with how the ‘remainiacs’ have weaponised lockdown to attack the government. However, I disagree that Russian interference is run of the mill and I think the government have behaved appallingly. Brexiteers have made hay with ‘democracy’, and I accept that remain lost, however, I think it is a mistake to brush off Russia like this. And whilst I now care more about protecting our institutions and the integrity of our system (see: Lockdown!!!), we are a broad church here, all united in our scepticism, and we need more and more people to join us. I don’t think it helps to be so combative. A very turbulent world is approaching, politically especially, I think it’s incumbant on us all to be respectful, even when we disagree. I think, give it 12 months, brexit really will be the least of your worries.

59581 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to BecJT, 1, #104 of 1148 🔗

I haven’t looked into this Russia thing much – assumed it was mainly just a distraction tactic. Maybe I am wrong. I’m no great fan of Russia, but unsure why they’d be so interested in us. Anyway, without any Russian help we have managed to utterly screw ourselves up on our own.

59240 HawkAnalyst, 6, #105 of 1148 🔗

The teachers who didn’t rise to the challenge should give their pay rise to the unsung carers COMMENTS


59241 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 5, #106 of 1148 🔗

A load of reasons why wearing a mask is USELESS in protecting ANYBODY against COVIDS and why wearing one is INSANE!


59243 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Two-Six, 7, #107 of 1148 🔗

Good summary, from a quick scan. A lot of the research sounded like it was undertaken in lab conditions. Real world conditions will be far worse. Probably 60% will never change or wash their masks and 95% will be fiddling with their masks all the time, so facilitating face-finger-surface transmission routes for infections. Go exempt (if you have a valid reason- and you probably do) and treat mask wearers like lepers!

59251 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 2, #108 of 1148 🔗

‘treat mask wearers like lepers’ indeed but make Them do the Covid Quick Step if they’re so worried.

59302 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Two-Six, 9, #109 of 1148 🔗

Why are leaders around the world now mandating muzzles? Macron is clamping down. It really concerns me that Trump, the avid anti-masker, is now wearing one and looks set to make them mandatory. What is going on?

59359 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #110 of 1148 🔗

Yes – a very worrying development that he seems to be coming under the thumb of other powers-that-be: what levers do they have to pull on him and what next from him? Signing up to the Paris Agreement?

59510 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, 5, #111 of 1148 🔗

One doesn’t get to a top position unless one is blackmailable, intimidateable, or mind controlled. Or a combination of these things.

59245 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 3, #112 of 1148 🔗

Can anyone tell me what has happened with the recently introduced forums on this site? I can’t see any link to them. But some familiar names are missing from this comment thread which makes me think they must be on the forums…

59248 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 1, #113 of 1148 🔗

Me to, tried the search function which just brought me back to the main page.

60079 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to karenovirus, #114 of 1148 🔗
59284 ▶▶ matt, replying to OKUK, #115 of 1148 🔗

The we’re closed because they were spammed. Toby mentions above – they can be opened if people volunteer to moderate.

59305 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to matt, #116 of 1148 🔗

This is better though – the forums were a bit random and not hugely contributed for many topics (last time I looked)

59310 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to HelzBelz, 2, #117 of 1148 🔗

Yes, a forum needs a certain critical mass of activity to actually get going and it never got there. Agree that this page is great, but it starts to become unusable once it hits around 700 comments, which tends to be by around 6 in the evening every day.

59354 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, #118 of 1148 🔗

I don’t disagree. Just to add a small coment that perhaps there is more possibility of some comment and info being read by passersby on this thread than in a forum. I don’t know if it’s true. I think its important this thread is as public as possible.

Of course a forum does have all manner of benefits about accessing and archiving which this thread doesn’t.

59247 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #119 of 1148 🔗

‘More under 45s died of road accidents than Covid19 ‘
The road accident figures appear to be from 2018. Given that most private cars and white vans were parked up for three months I would expect this years figure to be lower but, as a result of being cooped up in a crappy flat with unstable parent(s) the numbers of murdered children and teenage suicides is, sadly, likely to be much higher.

59307 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, #120 of 1148 🔗

It may well be higher this year as because of the reduced traffic on the roads more people are driving faster, people at home who are bored and turn to drink and drugs who then take the car out and smash it up, and with children not being at school then there is the likelihood of more of them being run over whilst out playing.

59355 ▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to karenovirus, #121 of 1148 🔗

The stats are really interesting but appear to be compare apples with pears. Surely, the Covid-19 stats are just for part of a year whereas the other figures are for a full year. Or I have got that wrong?

59398 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Locked down and out, 1, #122 of 1148 🔗

No, you’re right. However, with Covid deaths dropping to nothing, the point may still stand come December.

59600 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Locked down and out, #123 of 1148 🔗

If you follow the link the the study then took an average 16 week period and compared with covid for same period

59255 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 20, #124 of 1148 🔗

Right now the UK government, my Quebec government, and many other governments around the world have told us that we cannot renew drug prescriptions, shop in grocery stores, bakeries, etc without wearing a mask and that they have the legal right to refuse us these daily necessities on pain of fines or jail. What happened to the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights? Crickets.

59257 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to richard riewer, #125 of 1148 🔗

It lacks a 2nd Amendment, so they laugh at it.

59267 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, 9, #126 of 1148 🔗

Could you try working on First Nation people? If your omniprivileged hunter-gatherers decide that face nappies are against their Primitive Rights, it could start something.

Hey folks, we need a worldwide anti-mask, anti-lockdown movement, don’t we?

59261 BobT, replying to BobT, 35, #127 of 1148 🔗

I play chess with a bunch of people in the bar on Mondays. Love it. Yesterday I got in a conversation / debate with one of my chess friends about whether the lockdowns were a proportionate response to this virus and tried to talk about the real statistics, the longer term effects on society, especially our youth etc. Turns out that one friend has swallowed the government / media propaganda hook, line and sinker. He was so upset with my point of view that he wanted a punch up. Luckily, he was the only one out of four of us who thought that way and the rest calmed him down so I do not have a black eye today.

I have been reflecting on this and have come to the conclusion that people’s belief in what they are being told is very similar to a religious belief but is actually more closely related to being addicted to drugs. The only way to recover from a drug addiction is to reach rock bottom. From there you can work your way up. Perhaps the only way the world can recover from this self imposed crisis is to reach rock bottom first.

Unfortunately, it takes a while……..

59268 ▶▶ annie, replying to BobT, 21, #128 of 1148 🔗

It’s a cult. All the descriptions of cult victims’ behaviour fit Covizombies exactly.
It’s curable, but takes time. Psychiatrists are going to be heavily overworked.

59301 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to BobT, 30, #129 of 1148 🔗

I have two friends – both singers – who have swallowed (and gold-plated) all the bait.

Both are still quarantining post and grocery purchases for 3 days (when asked what happens to chilled and frozen goods, these are apparently less dangerous and just get wiped with a disinfectant!).

Both unwilling to enter anyone else’s house, even well apart and with ‘panty liners’ on their faces.

Practice for a forthcoming charity gig (if it happens!) involves them standing in the garden 2 m + apart while I play piano inside, communicating by microphone only. I refuse to wear a face nappy, so the door can only be open a crack. Just as well, because it’s 34° out there!
They bring their own refreshments and even chairs – clearly our garden chairs don’t get enough UV.

Still finding it hard to believe how apparently sensible people can fall for all this cr*p.

59321 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Alec in France, 7, #130 of 1148 🔗

Well done Alec for having the patience to deal with the ‘excentricities’. My tactic would to take the piss in the most facetious way. Entirely wrong. Well done you!

I would love to ask the pair where they feel this all gets back to normal for them.

59353 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Basics, 9, #131 of 1148 🔗

I limited my sarcasm to expressing concern about the risks of lightning strike (“a lot of thunderstorms about at the moment”) and – with great difficulty in keeping a straight face – meteorite impact.

Both have swallowed the ‘only back to normal when we get the vaccine’ line.

59451 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Alec in France, 6, #132 of 1148 🔗

beginning to wonder if they want to cull the stupid (with their amazing vaccine)

59501 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to anon, #133 of 1148 🔗

This has crossed my mind too, anon. 🙂

59405 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Alec in France, 6, #134 of 1148 🔗

You need new friends, these people sound like a nightmare.

59686 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Two-Six, 5, #135 of 1148 🔗

You’re right.
Both (and their spouses) used to be normal people – if somewhat left-oriented for my libertarian philosophy.
But I nearly described them as (former?) friends in my original post.
Both are good singers so the musical aspect continues but social activities have completely stopped since the house arrest phase. Both couples are ‘voluntarily isolating’ and shaking in dread of the second wave.

Can’t help wondering what the [expletive deleted] point is.

60433 ▶▶▶▶▶ Michel, replying to Alec in France, #136 of 1148 🔗

Alec, do you know if there is any resistance at all in France? I have been searching for a french “lockdown sceptics equivalent” but didn’t find any…
We had a classical concert in the local church a few weeks ago (before compulsary facemasks), public was mostly masked but thankfully the musicians behaved normal and were seated close to each other.

59401 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BobT, 6, #137 of 1148 🔗

People really do take any counter-narrative against the cult of covid as a personal attack. It’s pretty ubiquitous.

59262 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 10, #138 of 1148 🔗

I am not going to talk to anybody today. Getting ready for Friday! Actually the problem is my wife thinks I am talking too much about the corona thing. So today it’s going to be flowers, general chit chat, more compliments, more fun! I’m sure by the end of the day she will ask “are you feeling all right” and I will say …………… …………………………………………..
Have a good day!

59269 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steeve, 1, #139 of 1148 🔗

It’s an ill wind, eh?

59263 SimonL, #140 of 1148 🔗

We all know the Covid death stats are also exaggerated by recording many deaths incorrectly as Covid. I know of a number of elderly deaths of Cancer but recorded as Covid. We will never now know the true extent of the data manipulation from the authorities because autopsies have not taken place and the evidence cremated. Why would they manipulate the data? Simple – to justify their actions and avoid cries of incompetence.

59265 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 39, #141 of 1148 🔗

Dispiriting encounters with 2 friends yesterday, both of whom are committed adherents to the ‘we must prevent a second wave and stay safe mantra’.

The first is a good friend who has admittedly been under the weather-eye infection, not caused by Calamitous Covid, but who is now claiming that the Lanarkshire outbreak indicates the need for continuation of house arrests and listening to Nicola on a daily basis.

Some members of her family have been infected and are now enduring varying degrees of post viral fatigue- which has been around, as we know, for many years.

The second woman, who normally leads an active social and family life, told me that she’s been too afraid to go out for the entire lockdown period, apart from taking her dog for walks.

I’d always considered her to be a reasonably robust individual.

What particularly saddened me in both encounters was the dismissal of the damage which continues to devastate livelihoods and prospects as this lunacy drags on.

I mentioned instances of mass redundancies, lack of education ,penury, anxiety, missed medical and dental appointments to no avail.

My somewhat cynical conclusion is now that under this blinkered fear is a refusal to feel any solidarity with those whose lives are being destroyed: the collateral damage which unfolds as the mask madness continues.

One cannot win the argument.

59270 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, 42, #142 of 1148 🔗

I’m afraid a lot of us are losing friends over this bollox. Maybe when it’s over they can be re-socialised.
A member of our choir has e-mailed to stay she is ‘still shielding’ and won’t come out till mid-August, for which she (quote!) ‘can’t wait’. In other words, she has not been outside her house, and possibly garden, since mid-March. This in a small Welsh village bathed in sea air. Five months of living death, herself her jailer.

59330 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 5, #143 of 1148 🔗

I sense an inner personality at work with your friend. Could a freshly baked carrot cake and flask of friendly tea be employed to save her?

A neighbour here self-jailed as your friend has been wincled out in stages (ongoing) by nervous picnics in a near by park.

59692 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Basics, 4, #144 of 1148 🔗

She would probably have to quarantine the cake for 3 days – and the tea will have long gone cold.

59380 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to annie, 3, #145 of 1148 🔗

Well, I guess the punishment fitted the crime!

59784 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to annie, #146 of 1148 🔗

I just dont understand people to be honest. I am 60 so not exactly young but have to admit I felt no fear of this right from Day 1 and have lived my life as near to normal as other people will let me, right from the start. Visits ,outside or inside or trips or handshakes ,hugs and kisses were all ok with me. I also instinctively thought why should I take orders about who I could hug or kiss or anything else from some Billy Bunter buffoon who has shagged everything that moved since he was at Oxford. It is beguiling when friends who you have known for years and thought they were logical and rational people suddenly start behaving like terrified mice and hiding indoors. Myself and all others on this site of all political persuasions clearly do not have the same genetic make up as these people. I am sure people will lose many more friends over this than over Brexit.

59272 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to wendyk, 21, #147 of 1148 🔗

There must be psychological reasons for this. When you are in a state of fear the reasoning part of your brain is shut down and you just follow the herd or something.

59275 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Mark B, 26, #148 of 1148 🔗


Yesterday I saw drivers and many walkers out in the open air wearing masks.

This is completely irrational.

59287 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to wendyk, 20, #149 of 1148 🔗

And sometimes masking little children, which is not only irrational, but very cruel. Dystopian.

59335 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cambridge N, 7, #150 of 1148 🔗

Yes. Children as young as 5 by law here.. it is cruel and unforgivable.

59608 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Basics, 6, #151 of 1148 🔗

Where is that? I’ve seen 2 young children here in the NW UK in them (aged about 7). It seems like child-abuse to me.

59720 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #152 of 1148 🔗

Why Great Britain of course. Allow me to quote directly from the Nicola Sturgeon laws of scotland –

Face covering exemptions
Some people are not required to wear a face covering.

These include:

children under 5 years of age
police constables or workers such as paramedics acting in the course of their duty
staff such as drivers or checkout assistants who are physically separated, by blah blah blah.

Child abuse. I agree. I do not see sturgeon is a proud person I see her as a fucking wretch.

Makes me angry just thinking about the evils that are cause these satanic ideas to be rolled out.

59787 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cambridge N, #153 of 1148 🔗

Yes it disgusts me that.

59292 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to wendyk, 6, #154 of 1148 🔗

They also crap themselves if you get within 5 metres of them, even though they are wearing a mask and gloves. I guess in a months times they will be in full Hazmat suits!

59369 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to JohnB, 10, #155 of 1148 🔗

On my way out of Morrison’s this morning, I approached a man who was clearly very anxious: as we risked meeting in a relatively confined space, he swerved round a bicycle railing, thus doing the famed Covid Scuttle.

I grinned and greeted him cheerily,so he muttered ‘no problem’ and went on his way.

59789 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to JohnB, #156 of 1148 🔗

Sometimes they exasperate me so much I walk close to them just to wind them up and see their reaction. I know i should not but sometimes they just drive you mad with their bed wetting.

59315 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendyk, 4, #157 of 1148 🔗

Irrational and ridiculous.

59333 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 16, #158 of 1148 🔗

It takes effort for me to walk past outdoor masked people without saying something. I have to tell myself to shut up don’t say anything. The sooner people realise the sooner we all get back to good old normal normal.

59374 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 8, #159 of 1148 🔗

My immediate, natural thought is “Why the F are you doing that?” But you say nowt.

59391 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #160 of 1148 🔗

Sometimes I have asked without the F or asked for ghem to help me understand why. But it isn’t right to ask everyone I see. It is instinctual to just say “why the F?”

59407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 5, #161 of 1148 🔗

I have the conversation running through my head, ready, all the time: the simple path backwards, ie mask doesn’t work>virus scarce>case numbers inflated>miscounted tests>test doesn’t work…
But we’d be there all day.

59484 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #162 of 1148 🔗

One advantage we have they don’t is facial expression. A lot can be said in passing with eye contacts and a smile. No need to break a step.

59399 ▶▶▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Basics, 7, #163 of 1148 🔗

“Under his Eye” or “Blessed Be The Fruit” are my favourite greetings.

59631 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 1, #164 of 1148 🔗

Been thinking about it, trying to tell them why not to wear a mask is not working — rather provide advice on how to properly wear a mask (maybe 2 at a go) and how bad it is to repeatedly touching the mask, that it must be replaced every 40 minutes (will need quite a stash), then discarded in a hazards bin or kept in a plastic bag and then washed at 60 degrees.

59633 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 3, #165 of 1148 🔗

Been thinking about it, trying to tell them why not to wear a mask is not working — rather provide advice on how to properly wear a mask (maybe 2 at a go) and how bad it is to repeatedly touching the mask, that it must be replaced every 40 minutes (will need quite a stash), then discarded in a hazards bin or kept in a plastic bag and then washed at 60 degrees.

59786 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to wendyk, #166 of 1148 🔗


59313 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark B, 2, #167 of 1148 🔗

Fight, flight, or hide.

59414 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #168 of 1148 🔗

Smile cheerfully and say hello.

59280 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to wendyk, 19, #169 of 1148 🔗

I have a good friend who won’t come out from behind his sofa. He joined the Tory Party some time ago, and seems in awe of the Government’s mantra and propaganda.He seems to think in fact that they are being too lax (like it seems a majority of the population iif we believe opinion polls). I am trying not to lose patience and thereby perhaps lose a friend. I’ve told him he must make his own decision on risk, as must everyone. At the start of this he sent me a foul picture declaring that people who ‘recklessly flout’ the ‘law’ should sign a waiver declining NHS treatment ‘when’ they get Covid. I told him it was contemptible as we live in a free country, denial of medical treatment is reminiscent of dictatorships and gulags, and people may consent to these restrictions but it’s conditional on the absolute need. Which has rapidly diminished to almost nothing beyond hand washing and *perhaps* avoidance of very large-scale mass hugging.

59297 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cambridge N, 23, #170 of 1148 🔗

I’m happy to sign a waiver declining NHS treatment, but on the basis that I get all my NI contributions and Income Tax back that I’ve payed over the years including interest, that has gone to the NHS or has been used to invest in it’s infrastructure.

59352 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to JohnB, 2, #171 of 1148 🔗

If only. They won’t hypothecate any taxes, (although the TV licence fee, almost a universal tax for the vile BBC, is an exception). ‘National Insurance’ looks like it might be a tax for health services but I doubt it is all allocated for health. I have long thought that the NHS could kill me by sin of omission or even commission, as much as it could save my life!

59796 ▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cambridge N, #172 of 1148 🔗

The NHS nearly did kill me when I was 6. I have avoided it like the plague ever since. I have had to visit others in hospital though and have rarely been impressed with what I saw.

59371 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to JohnB, 4, #173 of 1148 🔗

Suspect that shortly no waivers will be necessary – just refuse to take ‘the vaccine’

59361 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cambridge N, 7, #174 of 1148 🔗

The first friend, whom I mentioned in my original post ,is now fixating on the asymptomatic shtick; this seems to be the latest ballast in Project Barmy’s narrative.

I said that many tests were undoubtedly showing positive results-whether accurately or not is another story of course-to which she immediately replied-‘But they could be asymptomatic’.

She also invoked this as the reason why an affected family member’s other half had not shown any symptoms:’ He could be asymptomatic’.

Thus the fear and self imposed confinement continues……

59377 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wendyk, 2, #175 of 1148 🔗

It’s depressing (again) to see how many fools pick up on words and concepts they really don’t understand – “science”, “asymptomatic” etc.

59446 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #176 of 1148 🔗

Are we all asymptomatic measles carriers, if we had it in childhood ?

59404 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to wendyk, 9, #177 of 1148 🔗

“He could be asymptomatic “
“You mean ‘not sick’?

59417 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to matt, 7, #178 of 1148 🔗

Exactly, Matt. Something that is actually good, becomes a new ‘disease’ in their tiny minds. “He’s got the asymptomatics, keep away!”

As I’ve said before, what if we all got a disease that has no symptoms, what would we do?

59928 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 3, #179 of 1148 🔗

Yes or “fine”. Maybe this can be the new normal. How are you? Asymptomatic thanks!

59590 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to wendyk, 2, #180 of 1148 🔗

Perhaps this is some sort of ‘meme memory’ if you like of Typhoid Mary, who was said to be a carrier of typhoid, without showing any symptoms. But this is not the same beast, typhoid and Covid seem to be chalk and cheese.

59629 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Cambridge N, 4, #181 of 1148 🔗

I’m not so sure. It seems more like a version of clinging to the wreckage to me: evidence increasingly indicates-at least to the more grounded members of society- that The End Of Days is not upon us, but the blind faith must be maintained.

To me they’re reminiscent of the flat earthers, and before them, the church dignitaries who absolutely could not condone the work of Copernicus, Galileo and poor Giordano Bruno.

Exaggeration perhaps, but the motives are similar.

59793 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cambridge N, #182 of 1148 🔗

If he is representative of the new Tory Party then god help us. It really is a pathetic leftist rabble…might as well have Corbyn in.

60107 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Cambridge N, 4, #183 of 1148 🔗

Ask your friend if they happily went about normal life during each winter flu season, and if so why they were prepared to risk spreading or getting a virus which has resulted in far more deaths than Covid. By their own logic they should not have been entitled to NHS treatment.

59289 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to wendyk, 12, #184 of 1148 🔗

The whole situation has become surreal, I have listened to various ‘Goddess of Gloom’ experts who predict that we will be in Covid turmoil for a long time and yet ONS death figures are way down and apart from a few hot-spots +ve test results seem on the decline. It looks like this pesky virus is not listening to the experts. The Government and the media seem locked into a gloom and doom scenario, will they all prostrate themselves and beg for forgiveness if they are proved wrong?

59312 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steve Martindale, #185 of 1148 🔗

Don’t hold your breath.

59331 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Steve Martindale, #186 of 1148 🔗

What do you think?

59448 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #187 of 1148 🔗

Not about being right or wrong. Is about power, tyranny, and a global reset.

59300 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, 20, #188 of 1148 🔗

I’ve long noticed the same as well. A lot of my colleagues live outside London and have been afraid to commute back into the city. I have been telling them that its a virtual ghost town and that the rush hour has been non existent for awhile now.

A retired colleague recently wrote to me wishing me luck with the commute. I wrote back to thank her for her concern but I am not afraid of the virus nor taking public transport as I’ve been doing it awhile now.

The vast majority of people I know have swallowed the whole MSM and government propaganda whole. I feel like I’m recreating Custer’s Last stand every time I try to debate and reason with them.

Lastly had the misfortune into logging into my Arsebook account to check for any work related messages and saw that a former student of mine is cheering the mandatory mask policy in the Canadian province where she lives. Looks like I failed in my job in trying to inculcate critical thinking.

Jesus wept.

59309 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bart Simpson, 20, #189 of 1148 🔗

Classic herd thinking. Usually it’s vital for survival, but the same instinct sometimes works against us. This is one such situation. What has surprised me is the number of people who for years have told me they never believe anything the government says, nor a word printed in a newspaper, but who have swallowed this thing whole. Which comes from er, the government and newspapers…

59341 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #190 of 1148 🔗

Agree. The odd thing about this former student is her posts are usually about her dogs and the care packages she gets from her family back in our old country so its rather bizarre all of a sudden that she’s become this rabid lockdownista. On second thought however I shouldn’t be surprised as she comes from a wealthy family and is also doing very well in Canada so if it goes belly up for her, there’s her savings and the Bank of Mum and Dad to fall back on.

59492 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #191 of 1148 🔗

They are literally brainwashed/hypnotised/mind controlled, whichever term you prefer. Serious damage has been done.

Logic no good. Facts no good. Needs a hook/angle/joke at the right time just to get through.

59801 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Nick Rose, #192 of 1148 🔗

The were bull shitting I am afraid….when it came to the crunch they swallowed the lot whole.

59489 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #193 of 1148 🔗

I’ve just spoken to another friend who recently visited someone whom she’s known for years: the invitation was qualified by an instruction to enter by the back door.

She was then given hand sanitiser to render herself harmless!!

The support for She Who Must Be Obeyed is widespread though; my pal thinks Nicola has done a good job, whereas I don’t .

She’s followed more or less in Westminster’s footsteps , while employing suitably significant delays in announcements to emphasise her wish not to be ‘dragged into ‘anything ;’dragged into, dragged out of’ are favoured SNP weapons.

Never miss a chance to spread division and rancour.

59698 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to wendyk, 4, #194 of 1148 🔗

Actually allowing someone to enter has to be a step towards sanity, no?
It’s garden only – and well apart if not muzzled – for the lockdownistas I know.

60060 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to wendyk, #195 of 1148 🔗

Wow!!! That’s almost like going into a shop!

59798 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bart Simpson, #196 of 1148 🔗

I am afraid there is no hope for much of the young and that means it will be hell for us when the buggers are running the show.

59324 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to wendyk, 7, #197 of 1148 🔗

The comment about “the inherent art of living” from the Sunetra Gupta interview flagged by Toby rang true to me:
“The costs to the arts is I think also incredibly profound – the theatres and all other forms of performing art. But also the inherent art of living, which I think is being compromised.”

Those friends of yours have lost that “art” and may never fully be able to recover it.

They’ll need our help when this is all over.

59349 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #198 of 1148 🔗

I agree. Our help needed when over.

Our help needed now by setting an example. The commenter who is commuting and *still lives!* The example that one commute sets fot the scared stay at home colleagues is full of help I believe.

A beacon. I look at things conversely in a sort of though experiment. What if there were no skeptics? How dark would the mask wearers world be then? Without realising, we give hope to scared people that life can be normal.

59328 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to wendyk, 9, #199 of 1148 🔗

You haven’t lost two friends, you’ve just discovered that they were never your friends

59803 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cecil B, #200 of 1148 🔗

With friends like these.

59413 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendyk, 12, #201 of 1148 🔗

It’s just the epitome of selfishness. The “I don’t care” thing about the damage caused is very common. Even my Dad said this to me as I reeled of the likely outcomes from this covid melt down, 9 million unemployed, don’t care, 2/3 rds of business going bust, don’t care, 1000’s of pubs shutting down never to re-open, don’t care….
I really did have a cry, in their kitchen. They didn’t seem to care about that either.

59495 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Two-Six, 4, #202 of 1148 🔗

Yes, how right you are: the second friend, who owns a large well appointed house in a select part of this town, just shrugged and said -‘people should live their lives’ when I mentioned mass redundancies, impoverishment, family breakdown and loss of prospects and hope.

59805 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Two-Six, #203 of 1148 🔗

Yes its not nice discovering that your friends and family are actually on the other side of the barricades.

59606 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to wendyk, 5, #204 of 1148 🔗

My somewhat cynical conclusion is now that under this blinkered fear is a refusal to feel any solidarity with those whose lives are being destroyed: the collateral damage which unfolds as the mask madness continues.

That is so well-expressed – I agree entirely. These people are the selfish ones, not us.

59881 ▶▶ Lili, replying to wendyk, 2, #205 of 1148 🔗

I believe that beneath it all, the believers have to believe because the alternative is too horrendous to contemplate – which is that the government has sold us down the river and that this whole Plandemic-scamdemic is not about protecting our health but IS about ushering in the New World Order that so many ‘conspiracy theorists’ have said is coming down the tracks. Imagine if you had to admit that they were right and you were wrong. The thing is, unless they wake up pretty smartish then the horrors waiting down the line will force them to. Of course, some will become the New Gestapo out of fear or – for some – with relish.

60347 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to wendyk, #206 of 1148 🔗

“There is no such thing as society”

59283 Julian, replying to Julian, 2, #207 of 1148 🔗

I have not read this yet but here is a paper with what looks like a serious attempt to do a cost benefit analysis for the lockdown.


59306 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Julian, 9, #208 of 1148 🔗

“The evidence suggests that the costs of continuing severe restrictions in the U.K. are so great relative to likely benefits in the numbers of lives saved so that a substantial easing in restrictions is now warranted”

The average age of death and loss of life expectancy for non-Covid was 79.1 and 11.4 respectively.
The average age of death and loss of life expectancy for Covid was 80.4 and 10.1 years respectively.

This is what lockdown-the destruction of our way of life, the economy and our children’s futures-has achieved.

59285 alw, replying to alw, 5, #209 of 1148 🔗
59288 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to alw, 4, #210 of 1148 🔗

Eventually, people have and do come to their senses, but it is as Mackay said: people “go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.”

100% correct, I think I am now going to relabel it to Keyser Soze the mythical mastermind criminal from Usual Suspects

59410 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stefarm, 2, #211 of 1148 🔗

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was to convince the world that it needed saving.

59424 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, #212 of 1148 🔗

🤫 🤫 🤫

59293 Julian, replying to Julian, 22, #213 of 1148 🔗

The Gupta interview is good – she is very hard hitting and doesn’t hold back, but does it in a way that is very calm, reasonable and logical.

One interesting point is that she says we should be more communitarian in our response, and that lockdowns have been the product of individualism.

I have generally thought the opposite – lockdowns and masks are a result of communitarianism gone mad, and that what will save us is individualism.

But I suppose her point is that if you’re being rational and thinking of the good of society, rather than fearing for yourself or virtue signalling for yourself, you will support the herd immunity approach because it’s the one that leads to the best outcome overall.

 I think that’s a quite neat way to take the holier-than-thou arguments we are getting from the zealots and turn it back on them and show how it is THEY who will end up harming the vulnerable and OUR approach will protect them.

59449 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Julian, 2, #214 of 1148 🔗

This was an excellent interview. Perfect reading for those who are still balancing on the fence.

59499 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 7, #215 of 1148 🔗

Totally agree about the Gupta interview – and I think her analysis is absolutely spot on, both scientifically and philosophically.

And yes … the whole panicdemic is about *shattering* communal bonds that are the basis of resistance. The depth of evil (not a word I much use) being perpetrated surprises even an old time natural sceptic like me (an inveterate Groucho Marxist ).

That evil has reached the point, as I’ve previously pointed out, where child abuse is being officially sanctioned and normal rules of medical risk assessment are being turned on their head by the modern Mengele tribe.

59575 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #216 of 1148 🔗

Yes, it does look a lot like evil on the part of various groups, organisations and politicians with agendas or arses to cover.

59616 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to RickH, #217 of 1148 🔗

Yes, I think this is a fair analysis of what is being done to us.

59936 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Julian, 2, #218 of 1148 🔗

I also found this article very encouraging, not so much the science as her appraisal of the human/social/psychological costs of lockdown and distancing (which personally I am more and more sickened by)

That’s the axis of disease, but then there’s the socioeconomic axis, which has been ignored. But there’s a third, aesthetic access, which is about how we want to live our lives. We are closing ourselves off not just to the disease, but to other aspects of being human.

But also the inherent art of living, which I think is being compromised.

Acts of kindness are being eschewed. Someone was telling me yesterday that their mother said to them “please don’t come home, you’re going to kill us”.

I know a couple of people in less extreme versions of the above situation (their – healthy and not especially elderly – parents will only see them outside at a “safe” distance)

59298 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 1, #219 of 1148 🔗

What is the “sceptics” view on the situation in the US? If Trump is now changing his advice (as did Johnson here), what does that infer?

59303 ▶▶ Julian, replying to hotrod, #220 of 1148 🔗

What has Trump said? Must admit I don’t have much spare energy to follow US politics.

59441 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, #221 of 1148 🔗

According to R4 news he is encouraging Americans to wear masks where social distancing is not possible.

59450 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to hotrod, 1, #222 of 1148 🔗

Probably an attempt to disarm the opposition

59311 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 19, #223 of 1148 🔗

An update

Four days now from when I first ventured out

Day 1 A trip to the newsagent
Day 2 Waiting for ‘Kneel’
Day 3 Wrote ‘Why the police are a mirage’ (whilst watching back episodes of Homes under the Hamster)

Yesterday plucked up the courage and confidence to walk 5 miles from my village to the nearest town (Who writes this crap? FFS you ain’t gonna be flying a Spitfire, your only going for a fecking walk)

A pleasant Victorian seaside town of 30,000 souls. In the shopping streets the council had cordoned off all the on street parking; so they could introduce their one way system for pedestrians.

The hundreds of bollards used to cordon off the parking spaces are now bolted down as the shop owners kept stealing them in the middle of the night

The 140 year old Pennant Stone paving slabs had been defaced with day glo arrows and instructions for the plebs to follow (seeing as you ask, yes it is a conservation area, but council graffiti doesn’t count)

At least 50% of the prisoners were deliberately walking the wrong way. I caught the eye of a few, they gave me the ‘East German’ look ( I’m with you, can’t say anything here, we will be denounced, I have a family and children. There is a secret meeting in my basement this evening)

Strolled down to the beach front esplanade. It was was like a premiership football club (pre covid) crowd had just kicked out.

The only social distancing was in the queue for the fish and chip shop, Prisoners in the queue complied with the painted crosses on the road. The owner said he wouldn’t serve them unless they complied

The owner told me the local Stasi had told him they were just looking for an excuse to close him down; unless of course he wanted to make a contribution to the widows and orphans fund, and then everything would be fine

Two PCSO’s were hiding in the back of one of he cafes drinking their free coffee

Returned home for sundowners with 30 others on the patio of the village rugby club (and thereby hangs a tale)

But enough for today

Tomorrow: How our local bowls club turned professional under Rishi’s covid money laundering scheme

59329 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #224 of 1148 🔗

Great reporting!

59597 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Cecil B, #225 of 1148 🔗

Brilliant! Loving your posts! 🙂

59314 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 11, #226 of 1148 🔗

A friend has just relayed how, in Waitrose, he was asked if he wanted to hand sanitise after he’d packed up his shopping. I told him what I would have said and then it dawned on me that I am swearing like Father Jack in Father Ted !

59406 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to kh1485, 3, #227 of 1148 🔗

As long as you don’t become a racist like Father Ted. (I’m too busy of course).

59317 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 1, #228 of 1148 🔗

Looks like Trump has suddenly changed his tune…

“Mr Trump also asked all Americans to wear face coverings, saying “they’ll have an effect” and show “patriotism”.”

He added: “We’re asking everybody that when you are not able to socially distance, wear a mask, get a mask.

“Whether you like the mask or not, they have an impact, they’ll have an effect and we need everything we can get.”


59337 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Humanity First, 4, #229 of 1148 🔗

I watched most of the press conference. He was significantly less combative that normal, and my take away was that there was less than a hair’s breadth between him and Boris – he even assessed his ‘performance’ relative to the original ICL prediction of millions of deaths in the US! Lots of talk about vaccine and therapeutics, and yes, the shift on masks, although note, despite what he said at the conference, he was spotted a few hours later in a crowded foyer without it on. He has an election to win, and his problem is Florida. Texas seems to be coming under control. He isn’t worried about California – it is luvvie Democrat central. He was blind-sided by the question on Ghislaine Maxwell – or so it appeared – but then she likely has more dirt on the Democrat aristocracy than she does on him.

59373 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #230 of 1148 🔗

Note however that any dirt she has on the dumocrats will be ignored whilst anything on Trump will be megaphoned throughout the universe!

59474 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #231 of 1148 🔗

Is it not just a simple fact that – due to the geography of the US – they will continually be at the ‘height’ of the outbreak in some portion of the country or other. Hence the need for (pretend or otherwise) earnestness

59339 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Humanity First, 12, #232 of 1148 🔗

Someone pulling his strings? Didnt think he had any. I don’t the like the way this is shaping up. Every government on the planet is going mask-mad. WHY?? What do they know that we don’t? Or is it a control exercise, to see how much pressure can be exerted on people? A step to world government, of the kind we don’t want.

59443 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #233 of 1148 🔗

Trump – like all politicians in the U.S- is owned by the big banks/corporations so to expect him to act independently and against such interests is not realistic.

Unfortunately this is increasingly looking like the Iraq war scenario, where a decision had already been taken and the “evidence” was manipulated and cherry-picked afterwards to justify it.

In the Iraq war the public was told that it was the “intelligence” which said that Iraq had WMD and needed to be invaded. Now we are told the “Science” dictates that everyone must wear masks, social distance, take vaccines etc.

What is most disturbing and troubling is that most governments around the world seem to be following the exactly the same script and with hardly any internal political questioning or opposition.


59367 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Humanity First, 3, #234 of 1148 🔗

He has been a huge disappointment. Still better than the alternatives, but pretty unreliable. I thought he had balls, but was unprincipled. Turns out that he lacks balls too, when it really matters.

59370 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, #235 of 1148 🔗

Quite – is he just being ground down or do they have something significant on him (Epstein-related?).

59387 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to IanE, 3, #236 of 1148 🔗

I think he just wants to be re-elected and he has been told or decided himself that this is the way to do it. He’s a flake, like our PM, and like most politicians.

59419 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, #237 of 1148 🔗

Curious by Pompeo in light of Trumps mask W-turn –

World Health Organization

Mike Pompeo attacks WHO in private meeting during UK visit
US secretary of state said the World Health Organization was responsible for Britons who had died from Covid-19

The US secretary of state Mike Pompeo launched an extraordinary attack on the World Health Organization during a private meeting in the UK, accusing it of being in the pocket of China and responsible for “dead Britons” who passed away during the pandemic.

Pompeo told those present that he believed the WHO was “political not a science-based organisation” and accused its current director general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus of being too close to Beijing.

More here (its free):

59458 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Basics, #238 of 1148 🔗

Yes it is very curious, especially in view of the fact that although the US announced it was withdrawing its funding from the WHO (leaving Bill and Melinda Gates as its biggest funders) it made a huge contribution to the (Bill Gates founded) GAVI (which is the biggest funder of the WHO after the BMGF!)


The WHO evidently is propped up by huge funding from US – based organizations…would the US government allow it to be controlled by China?

59479 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, #239 of 1148 🔗

Switcheroo. These folk in suits are identical to any other con tricksters ever. Give it a name and tell people how it works. They lose power.

59566 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, #240 of 1148 🔗

Interesting. The whole administration has been a disappointment – it had potential, but lacked consistent, intelligent leadership.

59531 ▶▶▶▶ Pcenkman, replying to IanE, #241 of 1148 🔗

Trump is the one pushing whole Epstein thing. I think it’s more to do with optics being it’s an election year because let’s face it the majority of people are pro mask.

59327 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 17, #242 of 1148 🔗

To all on here.

It’s now been 4 months since this lockdown began, and now more than ever we need to be coming together as one so that that we can take mass action against the continuing lockdown.

We all seem to be taking individual action and resistance, which is great, but in effect doesn’t achieve much as we just get labelled as the “odd nutter” as everyone else is drinking the Kool Aid.

I had always hoped that Toby was going to architect this, but it seems that he hasn’t the time with all his commitments.

I think it is now time for us on here to start making a difference. So, I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how they think we should get more organised?

59332 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, 2, #243 of 1148 🔗

I agree. Will have a think. I did wonder about the potential for organising regional/local LS hubs perhaps.

59334 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to JohnB, 1, #244 of 1148 🔗

Hunger strikes?

59421 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cecil B, #245 of 1148 🔗

Maybe when we’re all in the Gulag.

59478 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 3, #246 of 1148 🔗

Currently fattening self for coming Gulag

59345 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 15, #247 of 1148 🔗

My initial thoughts were as follows:

  • Form a committee
  • Decide on the group name
  • Create a website where people can sign up so that we develop a membership and mailing list for supporters
  • Create social media accounts for the group, and hashtags to be used
  • Start a Video Channel with daily posts and live streams
  • Create a voting mechanism to decide on what online and in-person action to take
  • Get some high profile Lockdown Sceptic people on board
59347 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 16, #248 of 1148 🔗

Also, Politically neutral, with the pure focus being on the COVID-19 Lockdown and nothing else.

59362 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 8, #249 of 1148 🔗

Absolutely, Skipper. The strength of this place is that we don’t get the “X are crap cos I always vote for Y (or vice versa)” mob on here, but rather reasoned, thinking people. Except for Emma below, who will be gone soon.

59365 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to JohnB, 3, #250 of 1148 🔗

I agree with this. The Keep Britain Free group is similar but it might well be worth having other groups of a similar nature going on to so people have more than one choice.

59384 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ambwozere, 1, #251 of 1148 🔗

The thing I don’t like about the Keep Britain Free group is that there website sells merchandise, it just looks like a money making exercise to me. By all mean ask for donation for the upkeep of the site, but selling caps and t-shirts is just a way to make a profit for the person who owns the site.

59392 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, 2, #252 of 1148 🔗

I can’t believe they make much, if anything, and frankly don’t care as log as they are of use to the movement.

59535 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 2, #253 of 1148 🔗

They probably don’t make that much based on the turnout at the anti-mask event on Sunday.

60350 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #254 of 1148 🔗

Someone said that to me on the lawn of Parliament Hill, Ottawa, Canada, at a Stop the Vietnam War Rally in 1969 when I pooh poohed Joan Baez’s contribution to the movement. Still cannot make up my mind about that.

59400 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to JohnB, 5, #255 of 1148 🔗

“form a committee” now there’s your problem right there.

59402 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 1, #256 of 1148 🔗

It’s just a suggestion, we’ve not done anything yet.

59475 ▶▶▶ Liberty B, replying to JohnB, 1, #257 of 1148 🔗

All great ideas. I think the place to go for organisation and action is lockdowntruth.org. I haven’t been over there recently so don’t know what they’re up to, but worth having a look and seeing if you want to join in with that.

59497 ▶▶▶▶ daveyp, replying to Liberty B, #258 of 1148 🔗

It’s not used much, had a look at the Forum, not posts for over two days.

60351 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to daveyp, 1, #259 of 1148 🔗

Since the middle of March, 2020, this has been ‘a right horror show’, but not in the way that Malcolm MacDowell meant it in A Clockwork Orange. I was thinking that all of us could compile video clips, letters, personal experiences, comments, photos, news events, press conferences with Ministers, health officials, Experts and the PM, of course, ad infitum and come up with a documentary of it all up until now. Throw in some footage from the good old days in East Germany, the Soviet Union, Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, Fascist Spain, quotes from famous writers defending Liberty and Freedom of Speech and Assembly, etc. Then we could create our own Oscar ceremonies with prizes for best this that and the other. Tongue in cheek, sarcastic, satirical: Ex: Best sycophant in a supporting role to the PM, Best hypocrite, Best Bedwetter … knock yourselves out.

59360 ▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, 6, #260 of 1148 🔗

I think we are already making a difference by sharing information, writing to MPs, talking to friends and others trying to put our case, posting on social media and comments sections on news sites, signing petitions, refusing to wear masks, crowdfunding initiatives, voting with our feet.

But it would be good to do more.

Simon Dolan has some money and some kind of organisation going, as does Toby Young. Beyond that, I think our best hope is to try and prise away some of the more freedom loving wing of the Conservative Party – the ones that have spoken against masks, maybe Baker. I’m no fan of the Conservatives, and I am not trying to make this political, but I can’t see much scope for any support from any other parliamentary party.

It may be a very long campaign indeed.

59379 ▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 2, #261 of 1148 🔗

3 weeks flatten the curve.

59386 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 2, #262 of 1148 🔗

Now running at something like ten months. Imagine them giving us wrong information!

59382 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to JohnB, 1, #263 of 1148 🔗

Quick before anyone else does, create a website named ‘Lockdown Sceptics’

59434 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to JohnB, 4, #264 of 1148 🔗

An important aspect of this is to have an agreed and shared fact base. There is a valuable set of links on this web site but there is now an awful lot to read through.
So is it feasible to produce a short factual document (leaflet or pamphlet form) that brings together the agreed facts with references that can be used as a basis for discussion with the fearful ones?
Or has this already been done?

59338 didymous, replying to didymous, 9, #265 of 1148 🔗

Prof Heneghan points out that testing will always produce false positives so we will always see cases even when the virus is no longer circulating: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-many-covid-diagnoses-are-false-positives-

59521 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to didymous, #266 of 1148 🔗

Might this explain the situation in Victoria, Australia (also today, a single “positive” was reported in Tasmania after an extended period of no infections), New Zealand, and Scotland?

59690 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Tenchy, 1, #267 of 1148 🔗

Yes because we’ve all probably got some traces of this virus inside us. The PCR test uses an arbitrary number of cycles to declare a positive test. If that number of cycles were to be increased, we would all test positive.

59950 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Margaret, 1, #268 of 1148 🔗

That’s not because you’ve necessarily got any traces of the virus. The test just sort of starts detecting itself if you cycle it too many times.

59945 ▶▶ guy153, replying to didymous, 1, #269 of 1148 🔗

It’s unlikely that it will ever not be circulating. But it will be at a low enough level that you will need a big sample size to be sure you haven’t just found false positives.

59343 Liberty B, replying to Liberty B, 26, #270 of 1148 🔗

“Quite a lot changed that led to R going below one well before, or to some extent before, March 23”, when full lockdown was imposed, Professor Whitty said.

What the wha?! Why is somebody not sky-writing this quote?!

Also we’re all going to sign the petition against mandatory face masks right?!
All the builders currently working on my house are going to sign it. I’m afraid the only result of me sharing the link on Facebook is that I’ll be blocked by everybody. This has already started happening to my husband, so I’m sharing the old-fashioned way: word-of-mouth.

59356 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Liberty B, 4, #271 of 1148 🔗

I’ve signed but like you I don’t dare share it on Facebook for fear of reaction from all the people desperate to wear masks.

59357 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Liberty B, 17, #272 of 1148 🔗

As I said a few days ago, one or more of them will not be able to live with their conscience for much longer and will break ranks. He cannot ignore what other high profile medics (Karol Sikora and Carl Heneghan) have been saying about this and/or the collateral damage of lockdown for much longer. There has been tension, in my view, between him and Sir Patrick Vallance for some time now. The cracks can only widen.

59376 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #273 of 1148 🔗

I really value your comment on this. Make it so!

59390 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #274 of 1148 🔗

Please god those cracks break and open up a chasm!

59437 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #275 of 1148 🔗

Mrs TJN and I have been saying this for a while: someone is going to break ranks soon. Problem is, a watched kettle never boils …

I am sure that you/we are correct though. Everyone’s going to be scrambling to cover their arses, and sooner or later that’s going to lead to accusation and counter-accusation. Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see the whole pile of garbage come tumbling down.

59463 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, 5, #276 of 1148 🔗

It also needs a Cabinet minister to resign and do a Robin Cook. I have also made the plea to Therese Coffey, SoS for Work & Pensions, to dig deep as the torch-bearer for Chemistry at Somerville College, Oxford (Mrs T’s alma mater) and salve her conscience.

59485 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #277 of 1148 🔗

Yes, but who in this cabinet of nobodies is going to step out? So far we have only about three MPs.

Someone with a science background? That narrows the field a lot.

Still, very early days yet and the going is still very easy.

I often wonder what Mrs T, with her forensic and practical mind, would have done with this lot. I reckon s he’d have destroyed Ferguson in minutes.

59487 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to TJN, 3, #278 of 1148 🔗

Someone with a science background?”

That’s not much of a criteria, given the numbers from the Mengele School of Public Health with such a background who are keen on perpetuating the myth.

59562 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to RickH, 3, #279 of 1148 🔗

I meant a cabinet minister with a science background! Pretty thin on the ground.

And in science itself there is s world of difference between an independent scientist and one chasing the next research grant or committee position.

59569 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, 3, #280 of 1148 🔗

Quite, hence the Climate Change mantra of ‘97% of scientists agree the science is settled’!

59594 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #281 of 1148 🔗

I think increasing numbers of people are waking up to the groupthink and sheer dishonesty which runs through ‘science’. In time, some incidental good may come from the covid debacle.

59486 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #282 of 1148 🔗

Sorry to be a party pooper – but *What* conscience? We wouldn’t be here if that entity existed.

59432 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Liberty B, 3, #283 of 1148 🔗

Exactly why I won’t share it on my Facebook. I’ve gotten into way too many pointless arguments for posting stuff in the past 😂

59595 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to kbeanie, 2, #284 of 1148 🔗

What I find depressing about FB is that nobody wants to engage with the debate. Apart from the morons who can come up with not better argument than ‘utter bollox’ (e.g. for the excellent Peter Hitchens article the other day).

59438 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Liberty B, 1, #285 of 1148 🔗

Signed it as well and will be sharing to a friend and Mr Bart but apart from that, won’t be sharing it on Arsebook as I don’t have the time or energy to battle with the lockdownistas many of whom I work with.

59490 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Liberty B, 1, #286 of 1148 🔗

I think he’s only saying it now to silence the voices screaming that we should have locked down earlier.

59375 Mr Dee, 1, #287 of 1148 🔗

Pam Popper on UK Covid chicanery and a worldwide call to arms!


59383 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 22, #288 of 1148 🔗

The place I work for reopens to the public tomorrow and while I and everyone is resigned to the fact that antisocial distancing and the looming economic crash will mean that we won’t be swamped with visitors, I have not been sleeping well for the last fortnight or so. And this is because of the OTT cleaning regime we have been subjected to and the possibility of being snitched on by colleagues to management for failing to adhere to cleaning and antisocial distancing.

It’s really sad if it has come to this – a disproportionate response to a virus in retreat and distrust of people one works with.

I have decided to boycott my staff area and take my breaks elsewhere, that means no-one will hold it against me because I have not been in the space.

59388 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #289 of 1148 🔗

Pre-WW2 Germany increasingly springs to mind. I used to think such things could never happen in the UK.

59395 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, 8, #290 of 1148 🔗

Yep. During my traning session, I have manage to suss out a few people who would possibly have joined the Stasi if it came to that.

59435 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #291 of 1148 🔗

“One of these days, all these people who’ve participated in this snitching and are co-conspirators with the criminals who are doing this are going to get their day, believe me. What goes around comes around.” Dr Pam Popper, July 9 2020

59439 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #292 of 1148 🔗

Indeed. If not in this life, in the next life.

59481 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IanE, 4, #293 of 1148 🔗

Yes. One has to be careful of parallels, but the evil being done is immense from so many perspectives – and the latest we now have emerging is alumni of the Mengele School of Public Health getting airtime for their scheme to stick experimental needles in all and sundry.

59493 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to IanE, 11, #294 of 1148 🔗

There is an excellent series on BBC iplayer called Rise of the Nazi’s, I watched the episode which was called Politics and covered 1930 – 1933. Truly the parallels to today with a gradual erosion of diplomacy that then reached a tipping point until no one could challenge the situation, are frightening and instructive for all of us.

59744 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to DressageRider, 5, #295 of 1148 🔗

Funny how the BBC can see that in relation to Germany in the 1930s, but completely fail to see it in the here and now.

59758 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Steve Hayes, #296 of 1148 🔗

Yes! Or indeed anyone who watches that particular episode.

59389 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #297 of 1148 🔗

Good luck Bart, this whole thing is totally crazy and wrong and is setting people against people. Sadly some people seem to get a kick out of being a snitch etc, some. I guess are probably still completely terrified so will do everything they can to feel safe, even reporting on other staff members.

59394 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ambwozere, 6, #298 of 1148 🔗

Thanks. That’s what Mr Bart has said – they’ve become so neurotic that they perceive anyone who is not doing it “correctly” as a threat and think that reporting them to management is keeping everyone safe.

59396 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #299 of 1148 🔗

Keep buggering on Bart: sorry, a bit short and sweet (work calls) but it’s meant sincerely. kh

59397 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 7, #300 of 1148 🔗

Thank you. I’m determined to do my job to the best of my ability and will not be treating the visitors like lepers despite what we’re told. They are human beings worth of dignity and respect and without them we are nothing.

59431 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #301 of 1148 🔗

Good luck too Bart. Hill Street Blues chief used to say to team after the morning meeting – “get out there & let’s do it to them before they do it to us”!

59440 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #302 of 1148 🔗

Thanks a lot! 🙂

59408 Biker, replying to Biker, 3, #303 of 1148 🔗

Don’t be surprised if something sneaks up behind you, that’s all i’m saying

59412 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Biker, #304 of 1148 🔗


59469 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to IanE, 5, #305 of 1148 🔗

I think the point is a warning we are all looking in one corona/mask/vaccine direction. The classic slight of hand – focus on the right hand while the left reaches for a club to beat you with. That kind of a deal, I assume.

59488 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Basics, 6, #306 of 1148 🔗

Yes, that’s occurred to me on the masks business. While we are talking about and concentrating on this, what are we missing?

59498 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to TJN, 3, #307 of 1148 🔗

Government being reshaped is something no reports are coming out about. EU military unification. Global reset implications. I think Russia invading is a no go, if only they would! But these are all known knowns – the unknowns are where to look.

59517 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Basics, 5, #308 of 1148 🔗

At this point, I’d see a Russian invasion as liberation

59508 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to TJN, #309 of 1148 🔗
59563 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Carrie, #310 of 1148 🔗

Good one!

59601 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to T. Prince, 2, #312 of 1148 🔗

I hesitate to grant that this lot have the gumption to organise a decent conspiracy. But that doesn’t mean they won’t take advantage of the mess they’ve created to foist God knows what on the plebs.

59677 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TJN, 2, #313 of 1148 🔗

Taking advantage of, rather than organised by. Agree with you, TJN!

60338 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, #314 of 1148 🔗

The organisers are obviously intelligent and competent, although seemingly unaware and spiritually sick.

59409 Guirme, replying to Guirme, 9, #315 of 1148 🔗

Raining heavily here today; rather a tricky one for the outdoor mask wearers. Supermarket queues will be somewhat miserable. A few consecutive days of heavy rain might help to dampen the ardour of the extremists.

59411 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Guirme, 4, #316 of 1148 🔗

As I’ve always said, no-one wants to queue in the pouring rain, howling wind or the bitter cold. I predict low level violence if shop staff try to enforce antisocial distancing in these conditions as well as muzzling.

59416 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #317 of 1148 🔗

I doubt that many shop staff will try – but watch out for the muzzlezealots!

59420 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to IanE, 3, #318 of 1148 🔗

Indeed. A lot of the fights will be instigated by the muzzlezealots.

60352 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to IanE, #319 of 1148 🔗

They haven’t just muzzled their faces, they have also muzzled their minds.

59472 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Guirme, 1, #320 of 1148 🔗

Yes. Self imposed water boarding won’t catch on.

59428 mjr, replying to mjr, #321 of 1148 🔗

Can i ask an administrations favour. I leave this page open with comments so that i can monitor updates during the day. However when the new page is created for the next days blog, that is not indicated so i have responded to comments when the page is out of date. And it is not as if the new blog page is created at the same time each day. Currently it seems to be in the early hours. In the past it was in the evening
I am not the only one confused by this
So can i ask that when a new blog page is created, the previous days comments are updated with a comment to advise that the new page has been created.

59433 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to mjr, 1, #322 of 1148 🔗

I always click ‘Lockdown Sceptics’ at the very top of the page before reading and it will load the newest page.

59496 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, #323 of 1148 🔗

yes but if you do that it also relaunches the current page (if no update) and that then loses the tracking of new posts which, given there are hundreds of posts, is the only way of monitoring what is new (as the posts you havent read a coloured) . That is why i dont want to update the page
I tend to open a new tab if i remember and keep refreshing that but it is not the best solution .

59547 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to mjr, 1, #324 of 1148 🔗

If you’re using a tabbed browser (I think they all are these days) right click the banner at the top and select open in new tab. If it is new, then you can close the old tab if it is the same, you can close that. A bit of a manual work around but it will do the trick.

59505 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to mjr, 3, #325 of 1148 🔗

It’s much appreciated that even though Toby is on holiday, he’s been creating a new page almost very day – makes navigating the comments page much easier!

59609 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to mjr, #326 of 1148 🔗

Sign up for the newsletter, you will then get the new one once its published.

59430 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, #327 of 1148 🔗

Where do I submit a tune for the day?

59444 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cecil B, #328 of 1148 🔗

I guess to the same email:

If you want to flag up any stories or links I should include in future updates, email me here .

59442 Sarigan, #329 of 1148 🔗

Week commencing 20 July – 0.42 suspected cases per 10,000 patients in RCGP RSC Network (211 in population of 4,967,302). None confirmed:


59452 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #330 of 1148 🔗

That admission by Whitty is enormous isn’t it? He’s more or less said that the lockdown was unnecessary. Is this being reported on widely? If not, is there any way to get it out there? It seems to me to be the key to the govt admitting this was all a mistake and that it must never happen again.

So why were Whitty and Vallance banging on about further lockdowns over the next 5 years just the other day?

59467 ▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #331 of 1148 🔗

So why were Whitty and Vallance banging on …”

Group think and the Order of the Brown Nose is a powerful incentive.

59503 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 1, #332 of 1148 🔗

Both have links to Bill Gates – says it all…!

59546 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #333 of 1148 🔗

Is this being reported on widely? ” Not by the BBC.

59551 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Julian, #334 of 1148 🔗

Absolutely pathetic that our media are in thrall to the official line.

59564 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #335 of 1148 🔗

I’ve been bombarding them with emails to “Have your say” suggesting stories for them to cover.

59653 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #336 of 1148 🔗

The guy just off-camera holding a sawn-off shotgun ?

59772 ▶▶ A Reader, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #337 of 1148 🔗

Yes, I thought the same. I haven’t had time yet to listen to more of his evidence session but it is fascinating that they now think this.

Also suggests the SAGE group must think Ferguson is a cretin, given his latest paper was still trying to prove that the lockdown was essential….

59983 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A Reader, #338 of 1148 🔗

The evidence has been out there for months, so there must be a reason they’re talking about it now. Have they finally had enough?!

Yes, it’s one up to Fergoid, definitely. Hooray!

59454 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 3, #339 of 1148 🔗


This certainly opens up the can of worms!

59466 ▶▶ RickH, replying to smileymiley, #340 of 1148 🔗

This particular can of worms has been quietly there all along. It is an essential reference for those not prepared to suck up second-hand media sh**.

59611 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to smileymiley, #341 of 1148 🔗

Great information thanks. Very useful summary of the real information that it is definitely not a pandemic.

59459 Nobody2020, 7, #342 of 1148 🔗

Interesting Twitter post from Prof Francois Balloux on a study just out in the Lancet. I’ve not read the paper yet but the Prof made the observations below:


A country level analysis measuring the impact of government actions, country preparedness and socioeconomic factors on COVID-19 mortality and related health outcomes

The paper reports that low levels of preparedness in early detection/reporting, limited health care capacity, and population characteristics such as advanced age, obesity and higher unemployment were key factors associated with viral spread and overall mortality.

Conversely, border closures, full lockdowns, and a high rate of #COVID19 testing were not associated with statistically significant reductions in the number of critical cases or overall mortality.

59461 Basics, 3, #343 of 1148 🔗

“15 says, 30 days, just a little bit longer, just wear a mask, maybe for years, new normal, Walmart is okay but Jim’s Bakery is not, we’re releasing prisoners but arresting people for not wearing a mask. BLM protests okay but street parties are not, you can be sick but have no symptoms. Hospitals are war zones but the nurses are making music videos all day, etc.

“But these same people hold the keys toy your ‘freedom’?
This is break your mind.”

Biderman’s three ‘D’s’ of torture:
Used in Amnesty International’s definition of Torture.

25 minutes
Your Body is their weapon – We’re all Patients Now

Amazing Polly youtube channel gives a remarkable information always based on tangible documents and records. Corona virus views and much more from a Canadian standpoint.

She broke the Wayfair Gate story recently.

59462 RickH, replying to RickH, 3, #344 of 1148 🔗

For anyone who has not picked it up, I would strongly recommend the interview with Sunetra Gupta referenced above.

It’s a model of sanity and good science – and a quietly devastating condemnation of the farce that we are now suffering :


59512 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RickH, #345 of 1148 🔗

Funnily enough however, her husband is working on a vaccine, while she goes around arguing that we don’t really need one!

59540 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, #346 of 1148 🔗


59542 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #347 of 1148 🔗

So one doesn’t necessarily trust her ‘independence’.

59580 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to RickH, 1, #348 of 1148 🔗

I just thought it seemed like a bit of a conflict in interest, nothing more.

60239 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to A. Contrarian, #349 of 1148 🔗

They’re divorced, it seems.

60335 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #350 of 1148 🔗

Ah, then I trust what she says a lot more. 🙂

59464 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 4, #351 of 1148 🔗

100 more badges just came through the door!
You can buy them here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154016480170

59471 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Two-Six, 1, #352 of 1148 🔗

I would have this on a badge but some people might find it a bit crass:

Special Agent Mask Exemption – Licence to Kill

59483 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #353 of 1148 🔗

I have a few more designs in the pipeline, actually the covid 1984 writing is pretty small, people have to get pretty close to read it. The not brainwashed words are detectable at about 2 meters by those with good eyesight. The logo is hard to see unless you get really close.

59707 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Two-Six, 1, #354 of 1148 🔗

I like Carl Vernon’s very subtle ‘2 + 2 = 4’ T-shirt.

59476 RickH, #355 of 1148 🔗

I note that the Spiv Party in parliament have voted down measures to prevent health falling into the hands of foreign and big money corporate interests.

Well … who’d have guessed that the ‘follow the money’ explanation of this confected crisis would yield such easy and obvious results?

Easy Peasy

59491 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #356 of 1148 🔗

Christmas is on then.


Only locals will know of the anger felt toward the edinburgh council and private underbelly who have repeatedly wrecked the city centre park staging the christmas market. Underbelly is not a local business. Last year the entire market was put on a giant scaffold structure which did not have planning permission.

This gives you an idea of how seriously the corona virus should be taken – very seriously until you are in trouble financially then just ignore it.

Good news though, the second wave isn’t happening in Edinburgh.

59509 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 3, #357 of 1148 🔗

…. despite the coronavirus pandemic.

They really do need to get their vocabulary up to date. That is so 4 months ago!

59525 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #358 of 1148 🔗

Wee Jimmy is suddenly realising Scotland is boracic.
The link within the page is an interesting piece of scaremongering

Scottish nurse writes emotional letter after frontline workers get no pay rise

59612 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to stefarm, 1, #359 of 1148 🔗

I read the piece from the Scottish nurse you mentioned above. It’s interesting that she admits that she had never been inside an adult ICU before and she had volunteered to work at one of the Nightingale hospitals, which didn’t open. She is usually a paediatric nurse in a children’s hospital.
Searching for what it’s like to work in an ICU, I came across this article:
https://image.ie/life/icu-work-intensive-care-unit-143660 .
It sounds equally as bad as her description of life on a Covid ward, if not worse. She obviously wasn’t prepared for how bad it was likely to be.

59539 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Basics, 2, #360 of 1148 🔗

But Christmas is off in parts of Wales.

It may only be July but some annual Christmas events have already been cancelled in Wales.
Pugh’s, which has garden centres in Radyr in Cardiff and Wenvoe in Vale of Glamorgan, has announced its annual Santa experience will not go ahead this Christmas.
It said it would “be irresponsible for us to run our experience given the current pandemic situation”.
Caerphilly town council has said there will be no festive light switch-on.”


59567 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #361 of 1148 🔗

given the current pandemic situation

And again!!

59586 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Cheezilla, #362 of 1148 🔗

Jaw dropping. Just when you think these jerks couldn’t get any more stupid…..

60299 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, #363 of 1148 🔗

New manifestation of Civic wokeness, see which of lives little pleasures you can cancel to flaunt your Covid Awareness.

59585 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, #364 of 1148 🔗

What’s funny with this Christmas market is that when we used to live in Edinburgh, it wasn’t as all encompassing as it is now. Not to mention that the whole Princes Street gardens looked lovely with the lights in the trees.

Now that we’ve moved out and are now only visitors, its sad to see how the Christmas market seems to be too commercial and to add to the insult, the council have stopped putting the lights on the trees located on the Edinburgh Castle side of Princes Street Gardens making the place look dark and depressing.

59598 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #365 of 1148 🔗

It is too commecial. Go to Prague for the same experience. Prices so high that certain local post codes are given vouchers in an effort to quell the talk that locals cannot afford an £8 cup of hot syrup wine. £80 (couple of rides and a bite) for an afternoon with your kids at a fair is a little steep. But i’m old fashioned and way off topic!

Yes it used to be lovely, now- 6 months of build and removal for a month of comercial tat.

59637 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, #366 of 1148 🔗

The grass always looks trashed at the end of it and it takes them ages to replant it. It’s like Charlotte Square at the end of the Edinburgh book festival then it takes them 2-3 to replant the grass!

59701 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #367 of 1148 🔗

Usually after easter the new turf is layed. Mud bath until April. They don’t show that in UNESCO world heritage brochures.

59811 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 1, #368 of 1148 🔗

My first time in Prague was part of a summer spent inter-railling around Europe. It was so cheap that we could feed 5 people with a beer each for about £5. Last time I went a meal for 1 person cost more than it would back in England where I lived at the time.

I seem to be just as old fashioned as you Basics. There’s also always a wee bit of the Scottish in me that doesn’t like to pay more than I need to for things.

60302 ▶▶▶▶ stevie119, replying to Basics, #369 of 1148 🔗

We went to Zagreb for New Years Eve last year. Excellent. Shortly afterwards they all had to stay indoors cos of Virus. Then they all had to stay outdoors because of an earthquake. Happy 2020!!

59807 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #370 of 1148 🔗

It’s the same with the Hogmanay celebrations. It used to be a case of turning up on the night and was more of a spontaneous celebration with some fireworks.

Then it started to get busier year on year and they started issuing tickets and herding people around for safety reasons. One year there was a mighty crush on the Royal Mile so they started to limit the numbers. Now you have to get tickets in advance and naturally tourists snap them up or pay ridiculous sums (in my eyes anyway) to get them.

For me it’s become too contrived and feels unnatural. Sadly it’s not somewhere I consider going anymore.

60083 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Nobody2020, #371 of 1148 🔗

Agree. My husband and I only went once because we were given free tickets, it was a good experience but it was crowded and the food was overpriced. After that year we never went again ever.

When I lived there, my workplace would send us all home by noon as the buses are diverted and its hard to get home especially as many of the buses go past Princes Street!

59494 Simon, replying to Simon, 8, #372 of 1148 🔗

This mask wearing nonsense could easily be brought to a halt. It would take some sceptic with kids to send them shopping dressed as an old person to buy alcohol (like in that funny video) and to raise hell with the store head office. Imagine the mandatory face muzzle removing to verify ages, the backlash would be massive.

Also, the opportunity to dissapear into an albeit thin crowd for a criminal. A couple of nasty armed robberies with muzzle wearers who look like everyone else could bring the whole lot down.

I’m not encouraging the second bit of course…. but the first would be funny. Especially a card trasaction which can be tracked :>)

I wonder if parliament would have to return for any reason, as it looks like this lot who’ve created this mess are disappearing for a month and I don’t think I want to wait any longer for them to delay opening the country properly.

59500 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Simon, 6, #373 of 1148 🔗

Seen Twitter threads of kids doing just that already, with latex masks..!

59504 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Simon, 4, #374 of 1148 🔗

Brilliant idea.. Unfortunately i dont have kids that age. I might try it robbing a building society as i will run out of cash soon
I did mention a couple of days ago an article about teenagers renting e-scooters (can be done remotely via bank card) and terrorising pedestrian precincts – under the anonymity of masks

59565 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #375 of 1148 🔗

It’s inevitable – I don’t suppose the nudge unit that assumes we’re all sheep, took that aspect of human behaviour into consideration!

59715 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to mjr, 2, #376 of 1148 🔗

Always remember to wear wrap-around, preferably mirrored, sunspecs wherever muzzles are compulsory. Allows making rude gestures at the CCTV watchers (if that’s not already a ‘hate crime’ in the UK).

59725 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alec in France, #377 of 1148 🔗

It’s an offence if you’re driving past a camera.

59578 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Simon, 2, #378 of 1148 🔗

It’s amazing that hardly anyone has thought about the security implications. What happens when a robbery or assault happens while in a train or the underground? Will the police have to seal off the whole train plus the station to catch the perpetrator? I can imagine lots of pissed off passengers.

59620 ▶▶▶ Simon, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #379 of 1148 🔗

Imagine the description of the perpetrator… Average height, average build. No features…

59634 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Simon, 1, #380 of 1148 🔗

They will have to stop and search everyone on the train and the station!!!

59652 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Simon, 1, #381 of 1148 🔗

And given the economic problems that we are due to have when furlough ends and even more redundancies happen, those millions who will be skint will have a greater incentive to commit crimes
i committed a white collar crime . .Anyone know where i can fence 30 stolen shirts ?
(I’m still here all week) 🙂

59502 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #382 of 1148 🔗

I’ve just received a letter from the council, urging everyone to follow the covid rules.

We haven’t beaten the virus yet.

Using some colourful graphics, we’re urged to stay 2 metres (!!!) apart, wear a face covering, wash hands, stay away from crowds and follow T&T instructions.

Overleaf, there’s a letter from the council top brass. Here are some excerpts:

Thanks to your efforts, some of our freedoms have now returned. But we can’t yet go back to normal.
We can’t shake hands with our friends, hug our loved ones and we must keep apart even in social situations. It is hard, especially after so many weeks in lockdown ……

Even if you think the virus isn’t a threat to you, it could be really serious for people in your family and for others……

I know we were recently on the scary spike list but really, who needs MSM propaganda when the council does it for them? I presume this has gone to every household. More of my extortionate council tax wasted.

The good news is that my brilliant Not Brainwashed badges have come.

I’m now wondering while I can get away with claiming I’m mask exempt while wearing a sceptics badge.

59506 ▶▶ MDH, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #383 of 1148 🔗

Can you identify the council? That really is shocking.

59560 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MDH, 1, #384 of 1148 🔗

It’s Kirklees. We were on the Government’s lockdown hitlist recently. They’ll be desperate to avoid being the next Leicester.

I wrote to my local councillors about a month ago, pointing out that they might as well plan to convert most buildings in the town centre into homeless shelters. (No reply!)

Apparently, I’m not the only one to realise the high street is doomed – though evidently, this thinktank didn’t consider the looming unemployment figures!


Promises by government ministers to revitalise high streets with a new breed of shops should be abandoned in favour of turning town centres into residential hubs, creating at least 800,000 homes, according to a report that aims to influence a Downing Street review of planning laws.
The Social Market Foundation (SMF) said the decline of the traditional high street could not be reversed by policies that “turn the clock back” to a time before online shopping, especially after the trend accelerated during the coronavirus pandemic.

59571 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #385 of 1148 🔗

“Residential HUB! What the hell is that! A hub is part of a wheel.

59511 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #386 of 1148 🔗

I’d do what I normally do with unwanted election leaflets…write rude words on it and send it back to em….without a stamp.

59516 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #387 of 1148 🔗

A letter written by another freekin idiot.

59534 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #388 of 1148 🔗

Definitely one to return to the Council Chief Executive, with a covering letter.

59507 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 10, #389 of 1148 🔗

Just been to our out of town M and S. When this first started, a lot of the staff were wearing visors-today not one of them was. They have also got rid of the silly indoor queuing system for the food hall too. Amongst customers there were a few designer muzzles about but not many. I find it hard to believe that come Friday, someone somewhere will flick a switch and they will all be masked up.
Next door at B and M they have taped off the parent and child parking spaces in order to reintroduce the queuing system which has been absent for weeks now. Are they expecting a rush of muzzled customers on Friday?

59530 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Margaret, 2, #390 of 1148 🔗

Does the M&S have a cafeteria? The one I visited a few days ago at Teesside Park does. The sight inside was miserable. All the tables were surrounded by seven-foot-high plastic screens. Eat in a box!

59543 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Tenchy, 1, #391 of 1148 🔗

Didn’t venture any further than the food hall but yes it has a large, and usually very busy, cafeteria.

59552 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, 1, #392 of 1148 🔗

I think the rush will be on Thursday.
Friday might be like the day the UK changed to decimal currency. That was before the supermarkets took over and food shopping was mostly done in town and at the indoor and outdoor markets.
Mum and I went shopping and the town was almost deserted even though shops were pricing both ways – my butcher still does!

Anyone noticed that happening re masks in Scotland? Did people stay away at first then relax the mask-wearing once the novelty wore off? Or were people keen to model their fancy new muzzles?

I need to food shop tonight, so hopefully things will have settled down by the time I need to go again next week.

59572 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #393 of 1148 🔗

Didnt see any difference myself. No stocking up before masks and not a real increase in people in supermarkets after.

Local shops have been doing well all through that remained open.

The footfall to food shops, supermarkets had really tailed off in the month before masks. An eg.one Sainsburys had a 100 person limit. Each visit I asked how many were in 67, 78 etc in a large superstore during peak times. Places felt deserted, not check out queues for example.

Pedestrains are more outside shops now but don’t think shopping per se is working out well. I look forward to some financial data about the matter.

59589 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #394 of 1148 🔗

I’m going to go local shops shopping tomorrow – will report back on the muzzle situation. Have supermarket delivery booked for Friday – then like you I’m hoping that things will have settled down and people will be sticking 2 fingers up at the mask edict. If not, Amazon Fresh here we come.

59592 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, 4, #395 of 1148 🔗

In my local M&S, only one member of staff was wearing a muzzle (again must be a newbie as I don’t recognise her), the second door has been reopened and all the one way systems (which people have been ignoring anyway) have been removed. At Morrison’s the antisocial distancing stickers leading to the self service tills have been removed, their staff are not wearing muzzles.

59654 ▶▶ fran, replying to Margaret, #396 of 1148 🔗

I started my rush Wednesday last week. Went to the Sainsburys 5 miles from my town. First time I have been there since March. There were quite a lot of people wearing masks ~ 40% maybe. I have just returned from the store this morning having done another ‘bulk buy’ today: Curiously a lot less pepole wearing masks maybe ~ 20%…. but this DID include a child of 5 – 6 years old with two masked parents.

I went to my local hairdresser yesterday – first haircut since January! I expected to have to queue but I was the only customer. I asked if they were expecting to insist on masks for customers from Friday and they said that they didn’t know. They said that they had customer last week who is a doctor who put out the government line ‘Yes masks would be necessary’ but the lady cutting my hair said that there was just so much information which they find too confusing and contradictory (a statement which I agree with), so they will just wait and see what happens.

59522 mjr, replying to mjr, 10, #397 of 1148 🔗

Following text message just received this morning from my doctors

Dear Patient, We need to do all we can to stop the spread of Covid-19 so we asking all patients who have a face to face appointment or a general query at Reception to please wear a face mask when attending the surgery. We ask that you wear the mask at all times unless instructed to remove it. Unfortunately the surgery will not be able to provide masks and we ask that patients wear their own. Thank you for helping to keep us all safe.

Sad to see that the medical profession actually think that this is medically correct.

59532 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 7, #398 of 1148 🔗

Given that bulk packs of disposable masks are very cheap, the fact that they are unwilling to provide any is disgraceful.
What about oldies who don’t normally go out. Where are they going to find a mask?

59536 ▶▶ RickH, replying to mjr, 14, #399 of 1148 🔗

Indeed, one of the most worrying aspects of this whole shambles is the number of health professionals who have been shown unable to absorb and process fairly straightforward data.

59557 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, 6, #400 of 1148 🔗

It’s called the “mere exposure effect” (Titchener described it, if my memory is right), the basic premise is that people end up believing anything by mere repetion (coloquially it’s known as “brainwashing” but takes way less effort than in the films!) and this is how a lot of advertising works.

Personally, I hear masks-masks-masks so often, that I, too, beging to think that well, something must be there, but then I look at research, and go “really?! your p-values are more than 0.5 (or approaching 1) and you want to persuade me?!” but then doctors etc have better things to do than study research…

59583 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to IMoz, 2, #401 of 1148 🔗

Apparently, Jung’s view:

“Roughly, and simply speaking, “participation mystique” refers to a collective human compulsion to project an identity on to a group of people that is largely imaginative or symbolic. This is probably where a concept like “herd mentality” originates, or even a more common phrase we are hearing these days, “sheeple” — people who seem to follow blindly an official narrative”.


59596 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to T. Prince, 2, #402 of 1148 🔗

Sheeple is a product of a long term effort to de-educate people en mass, dumbing down maths, sciences, promoting degrees like “Beauty” etc.

Jung’s archaic identity potentially helps in looking at the deeply devisive tactics used nowadays through group-identity (everyone now “belongs” to some “group”—there’s literally no place for individuality) but you have to push people into a group to begin with, which is where the mere exposure effect comes in, or as my 73 year old mother says “keep telling people they are stupid, and they will eventually believe you”…

59809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 2, #403 of 1148 🔗

promoting degrees like “Beauty””

Nah!- Even tho’ the general process of education has indeed been subject to rot and backward ‘progress’ ever since Kenneth Baker was the key Spiv Party operative in the field.

(.. and no, don’t tell me about the Blair governments and Blunkett etc. and all the other tossers – I know)

No, the main damage has been done by pointless individuals like our lying and narcissistic Mr Toad pretending that quoting Latin and Greek tags demonstrates intelligence and ability after wearing a topper and tails at school.

Or worse – like Cameroon boasting a ‘First’ in the duggy’s degree of PPE at Oxford as an entry into occupations well above the ability level of the holder.

At least ‘Beauty’ has *some* minimal applicability to the real world and the market.

60355 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to IMoz, #404 of 1148 🔗

As well, keep telling people that you are an Expert and they might eventually believe you.

59610 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, #405 of 1148 🔗

Kendrick being a notable and heroic exception!

59559 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 1, #406 of 1148 🔗

I Absolutely share your view Rick. Thought seems to be trained out of highly responsible people.

59553 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to mjr, 2, #407 of 1148 🔗

I had one of those last week. I emailed back & told them I won’t be doing so. It does worry me that ‘so called ‘ intelligent people still believe the guff that HMG/PHE send out. Surely their own observations with the patients should show them its all wrong.

59644 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #408 of 1148 🔗

fortunately, despite being an old fart i appear still to be fit as a butchers dog so hopefully i wont ever need to go (and if i do expire it will be at a HMRC office and will be highly entertaining). But i can sleep in the knowledge that i am keeping them safe

59523 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 1, #409 of 1148 🔗

How the medical industries continually invents epidemics:


59538 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 4, #410 of 1148 🔗

This was published in 2007. Talk about plus ca change!

The pharmaceutical companies and top scientists rake in enormous sums of money by attacking germs and the media boosts its audience ratings and circulations with sensationalized reporting …… “The primary purpose of commercially-funded clinical research is to maximize financial return on investment, not health,” says John Abramson of Harvard Medical School.

After last year’s barefaced lies regarding the plant-based diet, I doubt if anyone from Harvard Med would be so honest nowadays.

59741 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Cheezilla, #411 of 1148 🔗

Absolutely, could have been written yesterday.

59524 NickR, replying to NickR, 18, #412 of 1148 🔗

We’ve been pointing our guns in the wrong direction. The UK government paper that the Telegraph exhumed explains the rationale for the lockdown. It was produced by Health officials, statisticians and actuaries.  The scandal of Covid deaths is dwarfed by that of the ancillary fatalities. Here’s why:
Initial estimates of Excess Deaths from COVID-19 Department of Health and Social Care, Office for National Statistics, Government Actuary’s Department and Home Office 8 April 2020
This is the paper that assumes about 200,000 non-covid fatalities in the event of a 6 month lockdown, that’s about 1,100 per day. I would expect these figures to be pretty sound, they’re taken from real life by actuaries who do this stuff all day long.
Essentially the maths balances the deaths on one hand of the 500,000 Covid19 fatalities that Imperial were forecasting against the 50,000 fatalities in the event of a lockdown plus the ancillary deaths caused by the lockdown, cancer deaths, heart attacks, organ failure, suicide etc. The key point though is that the Covid19 fatalities were expected to have foregone about 10 years of life. In other words they expected fatalities to have an average age of 70. So they multiplied the 500,000 by 10 to give 5m years of lost life in the event of no lockdown.
On the other side of the equation, in the event of a lockdown, they had 50,000 covid19 deaths with 10 years lost life each plus 200,000 ancillary fatalities with an average of 4.2 lost life years each.
Thus, the equation was 5m life years v about 1.5m life years. Lockdown and save 3.5m life years. Who wouldn’t go for that?
We now come to the real world. In actuality the average lost life years was not 10 years. The age of the average Covid19 fatality was about 80, about the same age as the expected age of death for the UK population. Thus, the Covid19 fatalities shouldn’t have had their lost years multiplied by 10 but rather by 1 lost life year.
Now let’s redo the equation with the lost life years at 1 for Covid19 fatalities and keeping the 4.2 for ancillary deaths. This time the Imperial model would show 500,000 lost life years v 50,000 lost life years +(2000,000 * 4.2 lost life years) = 890,000 lost life years.
The do nothing scenario would have produced 40% or 390,000 fewer lost life years.
If average lost life years are 1 and not 10 the key driver to the decision becomes the ancillary deaths (cancer, heart attack, dehydration, neglect, suicide etc) as they attract a multiple of 4.2 lost life years.

59528 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NickR, 4, #413 of 1148 🔗

Thanks Nick. Helpful analysis. You make it very clear.

59550 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to NickR, 4, #414 of 1148 🔗

Good stuff Nick. Is this also a hangover from the dataset provided to ICL for modelling – from China – where I see the life expectancy of a man is 74 vs 80 in the UK?

59556 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to NickR, 9, #415 of 1148 🔗

Thanks for this Nick. As we know, this is very abstract because the theory was wrong to begin with! Looking at Sweden, the lesson is that we don’t need to lock down healthy populations. A lesson that had to be relearned after centuries of experience dealing with infectious diseases…

59561 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to NickR, 4, #416 of 1148 🔗

This is excellent analysis (but not in a good way). I’ve been wondering where the hell this the calculation was, as it seemed to me to be significant dereliction of duty if it hadn’t been completed.

My understanding was this handn’t been performed in March as Hancock admitted this when asked during one of his proclomations.

This does leave me with the suspicion that this is a post hoc calculation that was never going to produce a figure that didn’t support the lock down.

I have have a couple of other issues with what is omited here.

1) What is the sustained impact on the economy? How many jobs will be lost over period of time and how many deaths will this incur?

2) What is the sustained reduction in tax revenue and how will this impact public services? E.g. the 2007 financial crisis resulted in between 100 and 200 thousand deaths (depending on source) as a result of austerity measures.

Now, additionally, we all know that IC’s model is fundamentally flawed* and IMO incapable of producing a figure that could be regarded as useful for anything. However, that model could be out by as much as a factor of 10 and certainly at least 2. It has incorrect, or out of date, values for the CFR and makes enormous assumptions regarding rate of infection and doesn’t consider die-back during warmer periods.

Your estimate is a good one and shows how the government’s calculation is flawed using the data they had. However, it could well be that this policy is actually costing millions of lost life years taking those other points into consideration.

Do not expect this to be admitted. Ever.

*I was going to say bollocks but it wanted the main thrust of my post to sound a quarter way intelligent

59573 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Cicatriz, 9, #417 of 1148 🔗

I think really another key point from this is that people with underlying health problems are 4 x more likely to die from their health issue because the NHS has gone awol than from Covid.
Of course the whole 500,000 deaths is predicated on the IFR of 1%. We now also know that this varies enormously with age & health condition.
I don’t know a doctor (and I know a few) who doesn’t take vitamin C, D and zinc. Why doesn’t Government advise this & advise exercise rather than stewing at home & getting fat & depressed?

59605 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to NickR, 6, #418 of 1148 🔗

For anyone seeing my OffGuardian posts will know I’ve been ranting about that since March. The policies of staying indoors and avoiding fresh air and vitamin D will have a greater negative impact than the avoiding spreading the virus outdoors, which we can now see to be a virtually non-existant phenomona.

“Stay indoors. Save lives.” This mantra will have had the opposite effect. Maybe signifincantly in the case of the BAME community.

I’ve not been out much these past few months, and that’s mostly down to lethargy and running on emotional fumes rather than listening to those idiots in government. It’s definitely not been good for my health and fitness. At least I had an okay starting point though.

At the start of this, recommending vitamin C, D and zinc may well have helped a whole lot more than any lockdown.

59726 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #419 of 1148 🔗

And now masks to make our immune systems even more weaker

59687 ▶▶ MRG, replying to NickR, #420 of 1148 🔗

Nick, David Miles etal did a similar analysis:


The Abstract ends: “The evidence suggests that the costs of continuing severe restrictions in the UK are so great relative to likely benefits in numbers of lives saved so that a substantial easing in restrictions is now warranted.”

59694 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to NickR, 2, #421 of 1148 🔗

But this calculation was not done before the lockdown, as Matt Hancock admitted on 10 April 2020 at the Coronavirus Daily Update. The government introduced the lockdown without making any attempt to assess the number of people who would die as a result of the lockdown measures.

59702 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Steve Hayes, #422 of 1148 🔗

I suspect this analysis was in draft form pre the lockdown, it would take a few weeks to know it up, it’s a substantial report, try reading it! then was published on the 8th April.

59718 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to NickR, 2, #423 of 1148 🔗

I read the sections on the lockdown deaths. They were clearly trying to minimise the number of deaths it would cause. For example, they looked for ways in which the lockdown measures would reduce deaths and expected these to be significant, but expected obvious increased death factors to be negligible. They definitely under-estimated the impact of non-provision of health care, the negative effect of lack of exercise, the harm to mental health and the harm from the damage to the economy.

As for the publication date. I missed it at the time, and so did apparently everyone else, including the Secretary of Health and Social Care. Does that not strike you as rather odd? On 10 April 2020 Matt Hancock knew nothing about this study.

59721 ▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #424 of 1148 🔗

It’s always a cockup, never a conspiracy. Organisations of any size are too porous to ever effectively organise a conspiracy. This is just a lot of cockups.

59779 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to NickR, #425 of 1148 🔗

I never said it was a conspiracy, so I don’t understand why you are telling it wasn’t one. As for your assertion that is a lot of cock ups: the idea that the government introduced the lockdown by mistake is not something I find persuasive.

59723 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Steve Hayes, #426 of 1148 🔗

Matt Hanock knows nothing. No further qualification needed, Steve.

59781 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Cicatriz, #427 of 1148 🔗

When the independent inquiry questions him, I would not be surprised if he played the “I have no knowledge of that” card.

60356 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to NickR, #428 of 1148 🔗

They love to project all kinds of horror stories with their multiplication tables and faulty modelling. That’s what they are paid to do.

59533 NickR, replying to NickR, 9, #429 of 1148 🔗

I’ve been meaning to post this link for some time. A friend created this interactive website that shows positive test results by area for all 250 odd areas of England. The data comes from the daily csv file that the NHS publishes which is now over 100,000 rows in a csv file, this makes it far more digestible. Specify your area in the dropdown box click on ‘Trend’ and you can see the daily positive tests going back to early March. You can also see modifications in daily data from when pillar 2 tests were added. There’s also a calculated R figure and a map feature. It’s very neat.

59558 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to NickR, 4, #430 of 1148 🔗

Thank you very much for the link.

Excellent but rather shocking.

It shows that my contingency has been locked down for on average of less than 5 cases per day throughout!!!

59584 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #431 of 1148 🔗

Shocking indeed!

Latest report date: 2020-07-20
New cases reported at all regions on latest day: 53

59619 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to NickR, #432 of 1148 🔗

My area has confirmed cases that work out at 1.02% of the overall constituency population… 😂

59668 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to kbeanie, 1, #433 of 1148 🔗

I think the NHS assume actual cases are about 5x the tested figure which is why daily reported cases differ so much from the number of positive tests.

59541 Pcenkman, #434 of 1148 🔗

I don’t for a second think that mask will work. I don’t like the idea of wearing a mask but I think that the government knows they have made a mess of this and they see this as a way out and masks provide a psychological effect by making people think they are safe even though they were anyway!

59555 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 32, #435 of 1148 🔗

 Bombshell article published today Lancet, complicated but this phrase is quoted “Lastly, government actions such as border closures, full lockdowns, and a high rate of COVID-19 testing were not associated with statistically significant reductions in the number of critical cases or overall mortalit y”

59587 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to swedenborg, 2, #436 of 1148 🔗

In our study, an increasing number of days to border closures was associated with a higher caseload, and more restrictive public health measures (such as a full lockdown compared to partial or curfew only measures) were associated with an increase in the number of recovered cases per million population. These findings suggest that more restrictive public health practices may indeed be associated with less transmission and better outcomes. However, in our analysis, full lockdowns and wide-spread COVID-19 testing were not associated with reductions in the number of critical cases or overall mortality.

Am I missing something, or are these two findings directly contradictory? It seems to be saying that full lockdown means more people recover (so presumably fewer people die) but also that full lockdown is not associated with a reduction in the number of deaths?

59591 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #437 of 1148 🔗

I found the article discussion full of ifs, maybes and inconclusives.

The bit about smoking is quite ridiculous and can be summed up as “we don’t know”.

The last paragraph sensibly sums up the only thing they can be sure about from their study – and it doesn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know.

59599 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #438 of 1148 🔗

The important thing is no reduction in total mortality and it has been published in Lancet. The other is very vague discussion about reduced transmission better outcome but in the end deaths is the only interesting thing.

59604 ▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to swedenborg, 2, #439 of 1148 🔗

Recovery seems like a dodgy metric. I agree the hard endpoint of death is ultimately the only important thing. They tried to beat up the recovery finding in the conclusion but it did come across as vague.

59574 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #440 of 1148 🔗

This should make you laugh!

I’ve just read through it again, looking for some quotes for you but honestly there are just too many bits that are hilarious. Do have a look!

60311 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to Cheezilla, #441 of 1148 🔗

You couldn`t make it up!

59577 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #442 of 1148 🔗

Working in the industry, this was always a fear of mine and the reason I have not been pushing holidays in the short term:


Could open up so many cans of worms.

59588 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sarigan, 6, #443 of 1148 🔗

I do get a sense that this lockdown hokey cokey might just be a means of grinding people down to such an extent that they willing queue up for a vaccine if it promises to end this nightmare

59876 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to T. Prince, 2, #444 of 1148 🔗

You’re obviously not wrong.

The narrative is so obviously ludicrous when tested against real world data that this is the obvious rationale – keep the Scary Fairy running until we can justify the universal Pricks.

59624 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sarigan, #445 of 1148 🔗

Have they suddenly started doing more testing? Or did their overly stringent lockdown prevent a proper first wave everywhere?

59627 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Julian, #446 of 1148 🔗

A lovely combination of both I would assume.

59743 ▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Sarigan, 1, #447 of 1148 🔗

Must admit that we’ve now cancelled 2 planned trips to Spain – Cadiz September and Tenerife for 3 weeks of winter sun in Nov/Dec. These were booked pre-madness. Obviously we’re not frit of the virus but the mask wearing lunacy – worse than here – and reports of fervent enforcement by the Spanish police have left us unwilling to trade misery with rain here for misery with sun there.

59602 Guirme, replying to Guirme, 9, #448 of 1148 🔗

Very bad experience in the Stirling branch of Ramsdens who refused to sell me Euros on the grounds that I was not wearing a mask. I conveniently had a copy of the relevant statutory instrument with me but the manageress initially refused to look at it, although I eventually persuaded her to at least have a cursory glance; she still refused service despite the clearly worded exemption for foreign currency exchanges. There is an obvious reason why banks, currency exchanges etc are exempt from masked wearing.

59603 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Guirme, 5, #449 of 1148 🔗

She sounds like an extremist

59632 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #450 of 1148 🔗

Sounds like Karen

59664 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Guirme, 4, #451 of 1148 🔗

go back again wearing a mask .. and carrying a gun. You get your euros and they wont know who you are!!!

59607 Dan Clarke, 4, #452 of 1148 🔗

The ‘Elusive Report’ looks like corporate manslaughter

59615 ▶▶ Basics, replying to kbeanie, 3, #454 of 1148 🔗

Start of masking up for flu narrative?

59622 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Basics, #455 of 1148 🔗

Really wouldn’t surprise me

59663 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 2, #456 of 1148 🔗

Does this include “Man flu” (a very serious condition!)

59754 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Basics, 1, #457 of 1148 🔗

That is exactly where this is going.

59623 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to kbeanie, 11, #458 of 1148 🔗

Telling line in the article:

It comes as a leading scientist claims nearly half of NHS workers were infected with coronavirus at the peak of the pandemic. Sir Paul Nurse, Francis Crick Institute director, told MPs today that ‘up to 45%’ of healthcare workers were infected in April – but a lack of testing meant most cases went undetected.

If that is true then based on Toby’s figures above, around 670,000 were infected. If 400 died then the IFR would be 0.05%.

Also shows how the virus was really spread in the nosocomial environment rather than community.

59641 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sarigan, 5, #459 of 1148 🔗

Does it also mean they have no excuse to not be at their workstations now as they have already had the virus… oh, silly me… you can get it multiple times, hence the need for an annual vaccine!

59666 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sarigan, 7, #460 of 1148 🔗

Most went undetected? But it’s deadly!

59671 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #461 of 1148 🔗

Schrödinger’s virus. Both deadly and not deadly at the same time

59704 ▶▶ guy153, replying to kbeanie, 6, #462 of 1148 🔗

917 flu and pneumonia deaths in the week ending July 10th. How did they catch it? I thought the only reason a second wave of Covid-19 wasn’t raging through our barely-exposed population like a fire through dry grass was all the restrictions? But flu viruses can get past them OK? 🤔

59979 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to guy153, #463 of 1148 🔗

Yes, that very thought occurred to me too… Must be because we haven’t been wearing enough masks.

59710 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to kbeanie, 1, #464 of 1148 🔗

Only problem is that no one is reading the metro at the moment.its given out free to commuters at railway stations

59617 Sam Vimes, 7, #465 of 1148 🔗

Good to see our own Scotty87 kicking it on Simon Dolan’s Twitter thing. Getting lots of anti-mask support, plus light relief from a nutjob who says Scotty will kill all his customers.

59621 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 13, #466 of 1148 🔗

30th February 2021

The Times Newspaper


To day the Prime Minster Sir Matt Hancock released a report proving facemasks had prevented a second wave. The report by independent advisor’s Conrad Whitty and Liberty Vallance pointed out there had not been a new coronavirus case since August, which vindicated their face mask wearing policy

Sir Matt said “I knew I was brilliant, but this just proves it”

The Prime Minister also announced that pubs would remain closed until October to prevent a third wave

The whereabouts of the previous Prime Minister still remains a mystery. Police have confirmed the last sighting of Mr Johnson was on New Years eve in the company of Jimmy Hoffa. They appealed for information.

59638 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cecil B, #467 of 1148 🔗

Super. Have you read the words to the great Gene Pitney’ song ‘The man who shot Liberty Vallance’? If we cast Boris as Liberty Vallance, and Sir Patrick Vallance as the man who came to reclaim his own name!

60357 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #468 of 1148 🔗

If I recall correctly, he wasn’t that brave, he shot Liberty Vallance in the back.

59661 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Cecil B, 2, #469 of 1148 🔗

 “The Prime Minister also announced that pubs (that had not already gone out of business and been converted to hostels for those made bankrupt and homeless due to Lockdown) would remain closed until October to prevent a third wave”

59867 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cecil B, #470 of 1148 🔗

Trouble is – they *need* a ‘second wave’. It’s part of the narrative for the Mengele brigade to institute ‘Pricks for All’ (and profits for some).

59625 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 18, #471 of 1148 🔗

I went to TKMaxx yesterday with my wife. We were at the top of the stairs and were told to wait to go down as 1 person was coming up! Then the guy behind us radioed down on his walkie-talkie ‘I’m sending 2 down’, the reply ‘All clear’! It cracked me up, it was like a SWAT team!

59626 ▶▶ anon, replying to Moomin, 3, #472 of 1148 🔗

oh man get hold of one of those walkie-talkies.

you could have some fun eh

60358 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to anon, #473 of 1148 🔗

How about a protest rally with everybody carrying walkie talkies, all talking at the same time from different scripts?

59628 James Leary #KBF, 12, #474 of 1148 🔗

t’s not just a mask – it’s a line in the sand.

59636 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 26, #475 of 1148 🔗

Just nipped to Tesco to stock up before the mask muppetry starts on Friday. At least 70% of the people in there had no masks. Doesn’t that just confirm that most people 1. don’t wish to wear a mask and 2. that they are not scared of this virus anymore.
Why of why Mr Buffoon are you imposing this NOW when you seemingly also want the economy to get back to normal? #snowflakepandemic
Time to get a grip, how much more evidence do the Government need that people have had enough and want their lives back?
Why the media doesn’t get it together and really start sharing the real stats I don’t know. Presumably too dimwitted to think it would be a better story than peddling the Government lies?

59647 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John Ballard, 18, #476 of 1148 🔗

It’s being imposed now to perpetuate the Big Lie and the fear so that the government can cover its arse and not have to confess to having got it all wrong, for so long, and can continue to be able to micromanage our lives, forever. If you’ve got power, and power is all you want, why would you willingly give it up? I think we have to assume there are NO good intentions here.

As for the media, the same applies, plus certain sections of it (Guardian, BBC, others) are fully signed up to wider agendas that are served by the power to control people’s lives.

It’s an evil coup.

59678 ▶▶ Basics, replying to John Ballard, 3, #477 of 1148 🔗

After Friday be sure to talk to people in masks, they will be the same without today. Show them the light!

59685 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to John Ballard, 8, #478 of 1148 🔗

Just been into M&S for the same reason, not a mask in sight, not even the assistants. Its ridiculous, and infuriating. I wont be wearing one ever, at the end of this malarkey it will be my badge of honour.

59752 ▶▶ Nel, replying to John Ballard, 5, #479 of 1148 🔗

It’s being done so that they can extend the Coronavirus Act and all it’s power for another 6 months (review due end Sept) to continue the lie and so that people will go for the vaccine.

59639 Liberty B, replying to Liberty B, 46, #480 of 1148 🔗

Cressida Dick has said she hopes members of the public will ‘encourage’ other people to ‘comply’ with the muzzle mandate. Also says she hopes people ‘will be shamed to comply or shamed to leave the store’. She said this on LBC. What a disgrace. Encouraging more schisms in our society and people turning upon each other like informers to the Stasi. Disgraceful!

59640 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Liberty B, 15, #481 of 1148 🔗

She’s a wrong’un

59645 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 5, #482 of 1148 🔗

As wrong as they come.

59659 ▶▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to JohnB, 2, #483 of 1148 🔗

Priti will do for her before long

59697 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Cecil B, 1, #484 of 1148 🔗

Doubt it, Priti talked a good game for a while, but don’t they all, right up to the moment they need to act!

59750 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to IanE, 2, #485 of 1148 🔗

Priti Patel has shown no signs of life. Said ages ago we need to get used to the new normal. Guilty as hell.

59676 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 4, #486 of 1148 🔗

Shes common purpose.

Also was in charge of operation that led to the killing of Jean Charles da Silva e de Menezes.

From wikipedia so do not know this is factually accurate: On the basis of Frank’s suspicion, the Met’s Gold Commander Cressida Dick authorised officers to continue pursuit and surveillance, and ordered that the suspect be prevented from entering the Tube system.

Coercive manipulation via social shaming. She is intelligent to understand that her actions on the radio described above will destabilise community. Is she working against peaceful coexistence?

59693 ▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Basics, #487 of 1148 🔗

She got ‘removed’ for that, then came back

59695 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #488 of 1148 🔗

Looks up ‘Removed’ in dictionary… Promoted after a short holiday.

60341 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #489 of 1148 🔗

She got promoted.

59717 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 1, #490 of 1148 🔗

The first ‘witness’ interviewed at the scene on the day was a very calm man, who mentioned that he had called his boss to explain to ‘her’ that he would be late into work. Yes, she was in charge of operations.

59642 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Liberty B, 16, #491 of 1148 🔗

Member of the public hopes Cressida Dick will ‘fuck off’.

59655 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnB, 3, #492 of 1148 🔗

ticks every box for being a senior policeman …. except the “is he a good copper” box (gender use deliberate)

59649 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Liberty B, 2, #493 of 1148 🔗

Have you seen her in uniform? She looks like a sack of shit tied in the middle.

59660 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Cecil B, 1, #494 of 1148 🔗

Like binder-twine tied round a leg to stop the rats running up there.

59728 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cecil B, 2, #495 of 1148 🔗

Some people do, they really can’t help it. Especially when they are a sack of shit.

60343 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cecil B, 1, #496 of 1148 🔗

Well she would do, wouldn’t she!

59657 ▶▶ Panda, replying to Liberty B, 14, #497 of 1148 🔗

Cressida is about to be disappointed because, I assure you, I feel no shame when it comes to resisting this ridiculous overreaction. It’s telling that she’s come out and said that though, as she is attempting to distance policing from any over zealous shop owner/manager that might be expecting police to come running around the corner to support their bed-wetting, nappy wearing, inclinations.

59662 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Panda, 1, #498 of 1148 🔗

‘no shame’

The opposite perhaps? I don’t know what the inhabitants of Sturgeon Land on here might say in the light of their experiences – rather than ‘no shame’ actually feel about a foot taller?

59658 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Liberty B, 9, #499 of 1148 🔗

Do you have a link to what she actually said, I want to see if what she said can be construded as councelling, procuring, aiding, or abetting vigilantism?

59667 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IMoz, 16, #500 of 1148 🔗

Can she be done under the ‘Equalities Act 2010’ for this? or if not under hate speech as you’ve potentially got her actively encouraging the shaming of disabled people and people with medical conditions, or their carers, who are exempted for wearing masks.

59669 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, 1, #501 of 1148 🔗

Probably not, it sounds way too much of a stretch… Don’t know why you’d be downvoted though…

59696 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IMoz, 16, #502 of 1148 🔗

Her actual word were “My hope is that the vast majority of people will comply, and people who are not complying will be shamed into complying, or shamed to leave the store, by the store keepers or by other members of the public.”

Shaming will no doubt lead to conflict, so she is inciting violence. Someone will end up getting hurt or killed due to this reckless statement.

Also, a lot of people aren’t wearing masks due to mental health issues. Shaming them could well end up pushing them over the edge.

59700 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to JohnB, 7, #503 of 1148 🔗

Of course, even more people ARE wearing masks due to mental health conditions!

59816 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to IanE, 2, #504 of 1148 🔗

Or mental deficiency conditions… 😉

59760 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, 4, #505 of 1148 🔗

Thanks! That’s pretty much what I said in my complaint: serious lapse in judgement and failure to appreciate the consequnces/risk.

59871 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JohnB, 9, #506 of 1148 🔗

This is absolutely disgraceful. By saying that in the media, the Met Chief Police Officer is inciting public disorder and ignoring the fact that a proportion of non-mask wearers are medically exempt. The stores themselves understand this, what is her game? This should be a sackable offence (I know it won’t be!)

60196 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #507 of 1148 🔗

She has already had many sackable offences but she ticks all the diversity boxes so will remain. Boris’s tories will love her being the metro liberals they are.

60344 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #508 of 1148 🔗

The sack of shit should be prosecuted for incitement to cause a breach the peace as a minimum.

59689 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to JohnB, 2, #509 of 1148 🔗

terrorism act? inciting terror?

fucking witch

(common purpose agent iirc)

60359 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, 1, #510 of 1148 🔗

Escort all of them to the Tower.

59679 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Liberty B, 3, #511 of 1148 🔗

Calling them “the filth” is now highly appropriate.

59681 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Liberty B, 8, #512 of 1148 🔗

Has she forgotten that we all saw her ignoring social distancing so she could clap for the NHS?

59682 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Liberty B, 3, #513 of 1148 🔗

Has she got any credibility, if she has I dont know how.

59683 ▶▶ MDH, replying to Liberty B, 15, #514 of 1148 🔗

If people should be “shamed” they should be shamed today. Or indeed, since the edict was announced last week. The government is trapped by its own lie. They cannot admit that masks are nothing but theatre and superstition, so they have to continue to pile lie upon lie. If that quote is correct, she should be told to resign. It’s bordering on incitement to violence. Imagine if Nigel Farage had said something similar.

59722 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Liberty B, 4, #515 of 1148 🔗

I don’t think I’ll listen to the person who oversaw the *open-verdict-that-would-have-been-unlawful-killing-if-not-for-coroner’s-intervention* of one Jean Charles de Menezes. Clearly a bad ‘un.

59864 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, #516 of 1148 🔗

Yes – I heard from someone who had seen her incompetence in that matter at first hand.

59735 ▶▶ Nel, replying to Liberty B, 4, #517 of 1148 🔗

We should say, if accosted whilst out…

Shame on YOU for being a bully

59813 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Liberty B, 2, #518 of 1148 🔗

Presumably this is because the police are not intending to enforce the muzzle rule themselves. What a nasty piece of work!

60093 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Liberty B, 4, #519 of 1148 🔗

Her comments are a disgrace. She’s pretty much encouraging discrimination against the disabled and this is abhorrent. Like Khan, has been useless as well with dealing crime and needs to go.

60360 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #520 of 1148 🔗

Khan is a Sadiq.

60340 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Liberty B, 1, #521 of 1148 🔗

Dick by name and dick by nature.

59656 James Leary #KBF, 7, #522 of 1148 🔗

Jeremy Clarke’s story of visiting his uncle’s war grave on the Somme


Having read it, and having been there, I think the entire population of this country should be taken to Becourt Cemetery and made to walk past the graves one at a time before being delivered back to England, where, in the meantime, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission will have removed every single vestige of ‘social distancing’. A collective slap round the head is needed.

59665 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 11, #523 of 1148 🔗

Ventured out this morning. Saw more mask wearers but they only accounted for a maximum of 12-15% of the shoppers out + about. And also there were more people around in general; more like normal levels! No one seemed to be veering as far away from others as possible, nor did anyone say anything when I went the opposite way round the one way system in Superdrug. So rebellious ✊🏻 🖕🏻

Treated myself to a Caramel Cloud Macchiato + sat people watching. Not bad for a Wednesday.

59674 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to kbeanie, 7, #524 of 1148 🔗

Most people weren’t wearing masks in Scotland and now almost all are complying so I hope that the English population are more freedom loving with braver hearts but I wouldn’t be too optimistic.

59713 ▶▶▶ JYC, replying to Guirme, 5, #525 of 1148 🔗

Yes, I was maskless in a small Scottish town at the weekend and was very much in the minority. I was challenged by a visored shop assistant who said that she didn’t disagree with me when I told her masks were pretty ineffective. The fear of being out of line is quite depressing. I hope the English have more spine to them.

59737 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Guirme, 3, #526 of 1148 🔗

I am more optimistic because Scotland awash with the cult. England has stronger regional identities, I mean less government following in regions.

Local daily shops in the Scottish city here are operating at 70% masks I’d say. Supermarkets much higher. I put it down to the cult.

59670 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 10, #527 of 1148 🔗

Maybe I’m being over hopeful but… does anyone else feel like the narrative is being changed this week? First the 200,000 dead from lockdown report, then Whitty admitting R was below 1 well before lockdown, and now the Lancet article?

59680 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #528 of 1148 🔗

I agree, it does seem that the wheels are coming off. The increasingly hysterical media coverage is getting so bad that it is exhibiting symptoms of severe mental disorder. A complete detachment from reality has taken place. We must remain calm and steadfast in our resistance.

59711 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Richard O, 2, #529 of 1148 🔗

I’ve felt this way since March. Still hasn’t happened.

59736 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Ed Phillips, #530 of 1148 🔗

Mm I know exactly what you mean unfortunately

59742 ▶▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Ed Phillips, 2, #531 of 1148 🔗


A few more courageous journalists like this in the heart of the MSM will start turning the tide.

59712 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Richard O, 1, #532 of 1148 🔗

Nasty bug isn’t co-operating with them. Maybe need to order a new one from somewhere?

59714 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Richard O, 2, #533 of 1148 🔗

Yes, TJN household picked up on this too. Maybe wishful thinking, we’ll see.

Perhaps the media is starting to smell blood, as I always thought they would eventually. There is scandal after scandal there, of every sort, waiting to come out.

(Lancet article: PHE deaths fraud?)

59732 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to TJN, 5, #534 of 1148 🔗

I wish I could believe you’re right, but the media are part of the scandal – a huge part. They have almost as much interest as the politicians in keeping this crap going forever. And the BBC and Guardian have, IMO, more sinister motives

59799 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Julian, 2, #535 of 1148 🔗

The media also have no morals, whatsoever. A sniff of increased sales through exposing a scandal or grabbing into a new public consciousness and they’ll go for it.

59804 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to TJN, 2, #536 of 1148 🔗

Yes, but there are plenty of other scandals. The BBC and Guardian will NEVER admit that this whole thing is a crock of crap. Maybe other newspapers might change their tune; let’s hope so.

I don’t think they are going to say that the virus is like flu and we should go back to normal.

59860 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #537 of 1148 🔗

The roles of the Beeb and the Groan are slightly different.

The Beeb has always been the voice of the establishment. What has changed is the extended degree to which it is now compliant with government propaganda, increasing after Cameroon’s victory in 2010.

The Groan was reasonably independent until the Scott Trust became a limited company just after the Snowden affair. Viner became a compliant editor, and investigative reporters were sacked and replaced largely by time-serving churnalists. Significantly, it accepted a place on the ‘D Notice’ committee – a link to the security services that it had previously eschewed. It was like a newbie being ‘made’ by the mafia.

Since then it has earned the sarcastic title of ‘House Journal to MI6’ – essentially meaning that it’s a different conduit for establishment propaganda, aimed at a particular readership in regurgitating certain gobbets of propaganda fed to it. This was seen in the fabrications about Corbyn that any decent journalist would have pulled apart – whatever their political allegiance – and which foreshadowed the brown-nose job over Covid that even the most naive might have sussed out.

59869 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to RickH, #538 of 1148 🔗

I thought that BBC capitulated following it’s attempt to challenge Blair over WMD. That seemed to me to be the point at which the BBC just went along with government narrative. It hasn’t questioned any major event since: 2007 financial crisis, Libya, Syra, Skrpals, Covid.

The Guardian definitely looks like a takeover to me. It’s quite clever really, as The Guardian, traditionally, would be viewed as the quality paper that questions the establishment more than any other, yet it’s even more in lockstep with official narrative than the BBC. It leaves the odd situation where the Telegraph appears less establishment than it.

59739 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to TJN, #539 of 1148 🔗

Ooh I forgot the PHE fraud as another example. The Lancet article is mentioned further down the comments. Basically shows that lockdowns had no effect on mortality.

59800 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to A. Contrarian, #540 of 1148 🔗


59797 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to TJN, #541 of 1148 🔗

I’d like to understand more about death frauds. I had a death in the family at weekend and this is what happened

1. They need two reasons for death
2. Doctor sent straight to registrar online (I haven’t seen)
3. I have no idea if I’ll see a death certificate

Dr says … “all online now because of covid”

Where can I find out about PHE death fraud please?

59845 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #542 of 1148 🔗

I think the PHE numbers scam is largely irrelevant.

The key thing is the alteration of procedures for death registration that occurred under ’emergency’ legislation, whereby the normal checks and balances of diagnosis were abandoned.

John Lee was on to this way back in March (as a former consultant and Professor of Pathology) – and his strictures have now come to fruition :


The results of this distortion are given substance by the data in this article :


… whereby deaths from ‘normal’ causes have suddenly declined magically and dramatically.

  • i.e. ‘Covid’ deaths are fictional to a considerable extent.
60102 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Country Mumkin, 1, #543 of 1148 🔗

I mean the one by which (as someone here pointed out), if Johnson, Cummings and Hancock were shot then their deaths would go down as covids, as they had previously had the bug.

59684 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #544 of 1148 🔗

It’s showing signs of crumbling + I for one cannot wait to have a ringside seat 🍿

59747 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to kbeanie, 1, #545 of 1148 🔗

Wish I could agree. What is crumbling? The government is about to make masks compulsory in shops. They are not going to go back on that any time soon, are they? Check out BBC news – no positive stories at all about the virus all but disappearing, just crap about masks, vaccines, second waves, more cases in Australia, etc. We’re nowhere near the Big Lie being admitted on a big enough scale to stir things up.

60361 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #546 of 1148 🔗

It was all so easy the first time around that they have decided to give a trial run to a new narrative about a second wave. Power corrupts. Absolutely. And it’s not Fabulous, darling.

59708 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #547 of 1148 🔗

Buy popcorn and enjoy the meltdown show.

59716 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to A. Contrarian, #548 of 1148 🔗

It’s been constant misdirection since the government killed 10s of thousands of care home residents

59672 Kelly deacons, replying to Kelly deacons, 25, #549 of 1148 🔗

Cressida Dick today advising mask wearers to *shame*non mask wearers in the shop.Police fed now advising food shops to refuse entry to non mask wearers…..that’s it,beat up on,and starve the disabled.Phoned police to make complaint.Adised disability UK.
Have never loathed a government or police,as much as I do right now.

59703 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Kelly deacons, 9, #550 of 1148 🔗

Cressida Dick being a moron again then. Somebody comes giving me grief over muzzle wearing (not required in Wales btw, the Turtle’s Head seems to be anti-mask), the police may still be required to attend. Possibly ambulances, too.

Edit: They really know how to bring out the worst in people, don’t they? The police are supposed to help keep the Queen’s Peace.

59808 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #551 of 1148 🔗

Talking of the Queen, what do you think she thinks of all of this? Or have ‘they’ got to her too?

59818 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #552 of 1148 🔗

I don’t suppose we’ll ever know, but I haven’t seen any images of Her Majesty in a mask, at least! And I found it heartening to-day to see Prince Philip taking part in the ceremony at Windsor Castle as he transfers his role as Colonel-in-Chief of The Rifles to the Duchess of Cornwall. He spoke to the soldiers there and didn’t seem to be engaging in any social distancing and he definitely didn’t wear a mask!

59706 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Kelly deacons, 8, #553 of 1148 🔗

It’s interesting as the CMO in Victoria, commenting on the now (well in 30 minutes anyway) mandatory masks in Melbourne (all public settings, not just shops and public transport) said don’t cause trouble for people not wearing them because they probably have a legitimate reason. Shame that they were mandated in the first place, but better than Cressida Dick’s shameful ‘advice’ certainly.

59709 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #554 of 1148 🔗

Afternoon, DDS.

59810 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Kelly deacons, 1, #555 of 1148 🔗


59830 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Kelly deacons, 3, #556 of 1148 🔗

The aptly named Cressida Dick didn’t get where she is by standing up for law and order!

59838 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Kelly deacons, 1, #557 of 1148 🔗

Why doesn’t she just have her force Jean Charles de Menezes non mask wearers. It would short circuit the process.

59673 Biker, replying to Biker, 3, #558 of 1148 🔗

As my old Latin Master used to say at a time like this “if the fires of hell are licking at your feet it’s time to put on your boots and get the hell out of there”

59705 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 2, #559 of 1148 🔗

Churchill: ‘If you’re going through Hell, keep going’.

59688 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #560 of 1148 🔗

Is the reason they are pushing for vaccines in this country because of the Blair Foundation closely aligned with his friend the Gates Foundation? Asking for a friend.

59699 ▶▶ anon, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #561 of 1148 🔗

at this point I would assume they want most of us dead

59727 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to anon, #562 of 1148 🔗

or at the very least zombified

59691 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #563 of 1148 🔗

Daily figures from Scotland –

Scottish numbers: 22 July 2020
10 new confirmed cases of COVID-19
0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
3 people were in intensive care last night with confirmed COVID-19
295 people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19
9,720 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
4 new suspected COVID-19 cases in adult care homes on 21 July

Since the start of the ‘outbreak’ (gov word)

47% of COVID-19 registered deaths related to deaths in care homes, 46% were in hospitals and 7% were at home or non-institutional settings.


Pop 5.5 million

Half of all Scottish deaths were in carehomes.

59755 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #564 of 1148 🔗

Half of all Scottish deaths were in carehomes – instigated by holyrood and the general public are carrying the can.

I want to know how many of the 9720 were asymptomatic and if there has been any double counting i.e. nasal swab and oral swab counting as 2 tests.

How many of the 295 in hospital and 3 in ICU have underlying health conditions.

59769 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 2, #565 of 1148 🔗

All will be kept hidden. You have your information move along.
The othe 45% odd were hosptial deaths, again underlying issues there? 5% died out of care settings. My figures are rounded. Look at link for actual.

The carehomes ought to be sturgeons epitaph.

59829 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 1, #566 of 1148 🔗

Half of all Scottish deaths were in carehomes”

.. that’s where a lot of deaths happen. It’s just ‘life’.

59778 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Basics, 3, #567 of 1148 🔗

If you want to know about excess deaths in Scotland during the covid19 period, (weeks 12-29) nrscotland.gov.uk has some interesting tables. 2,365 excess deaths above the 5-year average in care homes, 229 FEWER deaths in hospital and 2,717 more deaths at home, including 950 extra deaths from cancer. As at 19th July there have been 4,193 deaths in Scotland where covid19 was mentioned on the death certificate (which therefore does not necessarily mean that these people died of covid).

59827 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jane in France, #568 of 1148 🔗

‘Covid-19’ on a death certificate means sweet FA.

59826 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, #569 of 1148 🔗

10 new confirmed cases of COVID-19″

That slippery ‘cases’ again. They’re down to using that.

59719 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 8, #570 of 1148 🔗

Masks appear to be a signal to the politicians that we have been subjugated, if it was for ‘our own good’ they would have closed the borders immediately. But they didn’t.

59875 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Dan Clarke, #571 of 1148 🔗

What would be the point of closing borders?

59724 Edward, replying to Edward, 12, #572 of 1148 🔗

As Mask Friday approaches, those of us who intend to resist may find it useful to have a plan or script. This is mine. “I have an exemption on medical grounds” (and a card as back-up). If asked on what grounds: “Medical matters are confidential and I don’t discuss them with strangers”. If feeling generous: “But out of courtesy I’ll tell you that having my nose and mouth covered gives me severe anxiety”.
Keep it low-key, stay polite, don’t start arguing about the technicalities or politics of masks. Ignore any abuse from other shoppers. It’s highly unlikely that the police will be summoned, but if you cause a disturbance you’re creating an excuse for that to happen. If the shop continues to refuse entry, walk away saying you won’t be back.
In case police do get involved, carry cash only and no form of identification. Maintain silence for as long as you can – I think I could cope with a few hours in a cell, to waste as much police time as possible.

59729 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Edward, 1, #573 of 1148 🔗

I’ll say I thought it was next week and so on

59734 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #574 of 1148 🔗

Dan, just hold your head high and breeze in. Any questions, just say you’re exempt. Don’t provide any reason or proof unless you feel the situation may get out of hand if you don’t. Buddy up with someone if you have to. Good luck. x

59748 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Lili, 6, #575 of 1148 🔗

Pretty well what I’m going to do. Except I’m not giving any more details other that saying I’m exempt. Reason for exemption (i.e. sanity, a rare psychological condition) is my business only.

59730 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Edward, 12, #576 of 1148 🔗

You don’t need a plan, the police aren’t gonna arrest you and most shops won’t say a word if you’re wearing a mask or not. Honestly don’t give it another thought. This is what is happening in the Peoples Demoncratic Socialist Republic Of Scottishstan.

59733 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Biker, 6, #577 of 1148 🔗

Thanks Biker, you always cheer me up!

59749 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Biker, 7, #578 of 1148 🔗

Agree, do not explain yourself, we are right they are wrong.

Don’t fret about it, there is nothing they can do.

59751 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 3, #579 of 1148 🔗

Thanks for the benefit of 12 days’ experience of this nonsense. I reckon you are right. As long as a situation doesn’t get fraught – and the non muzzle wearer can avoid that – it will come to nothing.

59759 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to TJN, 17, #580 of 1148 🔗

My work in a Supermarket (i’ve handed in my notice, can’t be arsed with it any more) has shown me that almost everyone will wear one and you’ll be out on your own but no one will say anything. However one of my workmates (security guard), a big fat english fella from Leeds as it happens, said to a customer that he needed to wear a mask (he’d been told by the boss not to mention masks but he thinks he guarding the gates of heaven), and he’d better hope he didn’t catch the virus and die. The customer reported him and the store manager came down and gave him short shift for this abhorrence. He was also given a written warning. The big stores want your money and know this is all bullshit and nothing more than a threat to their business. They want you in the shop not online buying shit from them wankers at Amazon.

59794 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 7, #581 of 1148 🔗

The sniff of money is a great motivator. The big stores know that there are too many of them, and that they are walking a knife edge of going under.

And where’s the upside for them in enforcing muzzles? What do they get from it? Nothing.

59802 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to TJN, 3, #582 of 1148 🔗

That hadn’t ocurred to me:

And where’s the upside for them in enforcing muzzles? What do they get from it? Nothing.

You’re so right; though we don’t yet know exactly what the law will say, we do know that the guidelines say that it’s not up to the shops to enforce it, so why on earth would they given that enforcing it will mean turning away customers?

59861 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Biker, 1, #583 of 1148 🔗

Was at my local Waitrose around 2.30pm today and for the first time there was a staff member with a counter at the door.

59995 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Victoria, 1, #584 of 1148 🔗

I’ve not found Waitrose easy through all this. It’s the only shop in which I’ve been told off for not standing in the right place. Three times!

59997 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Suitejb, #585 of 1148 🔗

That’s been my experience also. They have been hideous throughout all this. Complaints are met with sneering indifference.

60103 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ryan, replying to Victoria, 1, #586 of 1148 🔗

I mentioned this several days ago.

I noticed staff at several shops counting muzzled v non muzzled.

Sums are being done.

60098 ▶▶▶ Ryan, replying to Biker, #587 of 1148 🔗

Good man.

I’m back ‘haime’ this Friday and look forward to being muzzle free.

I’m hearing of across the board compliance there – what has happened to Scotland since I left !

60363 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Biker, #588 of 1148 🔗

How many stans does that make now?

59731 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Edward, 9, #589 of 1148 🔗

Good one, Edward. I am not going to show any exemption card or ‘proof’ unless I feel a situation might get heated, because I’m very conscious of this country creeping towards a ‘Papers Please’ totalitarian state. I am not going to help build that. Proof, for me, is a very last resort.

59740 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Edward, 3, #590 of 1148 🔗

‘If the shop continues to refuse entry, walk away saying you won’t be back.’

Maybe instead say that you will be writing to Head Office citing the following:


I think I could cope with a few hours in a cell, to waste as much police time as possible.’

I’ve been thinking about that too! I’ve never been in trouble with the law. I guess you just don’t know till you’re there. Many years ago I read Papillon several times – I know it’s mainly made up, but anyone reading this must wonder how they would deal with he solitary.

59773 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to TJN, 2, #591 of 1148 🔗

Sleep. Hours and hours, if not days, of peaceful uninterrupted sleep. 🙂

59745 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edward, 6, #592 of 1148 🔗

Do not say anything other than you are medically exempt, you do not have to tell them anything at all. Staying calm is he main thing, Police say they will only attend if there is violence.

I would also have my mobile start recording before entering the shop, then if anyone does try to question or shame you just point it at them, and record them, they’ll soon back down if on camera, and you also have it in evidence in case the Police arrive.

I would expect it to take a fair while for the Police to get there, so unless they are going to physically manhandle you which you can record, you can just walk out.

59776 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to JohnB, #593 of 1148 🔗

Excellent advice.

59911 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to JohnB, #594 of 1148 🔗

Unfortunately a phone is an indicator of ID. I’m not very worried about police involvement, the only possibility of it would be if somebody started getting physical with me and I retaliated, and it might be hard to prove who started it.

59770 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edward, #595 of 1148 🔗

If you’re serious about keeping it low-key and polite, Edward, I’d stop after

Medical matters are confidential

59774 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to JohnB, 6, #596 of 1148 🔗

Absolutely. I’ve simply been saying ‘I’m exempt’ on the buses if asked. Drivers have been fine, and I won’t be getting into any discussions at the supermarket. You really do not have to go into any detail.

59820 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to bluemoon, #597 of 1148 🔗

I think it’s always worth remembering that it’s not the poor bloody infantry’s fault

59907 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to RickH, 1, #598 of 1148 🔗

Yes, that’s very much my view. But there is the occasional jumped-up twerp who revels in the opportunity to boss people around. Incidentally there seems to be a view that Lidl should be OK, and I may keep going there, but my local one has a bossyboots on the self checkouts and when something goes wrong with the scanner (which happens all too often) she tells you to stand well back, even though she’s wearing a mask which most of the staff aren’t.

59901 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to JohnB, #599 of 1148 🔗

You could be right, I’ll erase the other bit from my script.

59947 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Edward, #600 of 1148 🔗

If they refuse you entry tell them you’ll sue them for disability discrimination

60326 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Edward, #601 of 1148 🔗

Why walk away ? Refusing you entry is discriminating against you because of your Disability, ask for his/her name.

60362 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Edward, #602 of 1148 🔗

Henry David Thoreau was sent to jail one time because he refused to pay taxes to support the US-Mexico war. Emerson popped by to see him and asked ‘what are you doing in there’? Thoreau replied ‘what are you doing out there’?

59738 Biker, replying to Biker, 3, #603 of 1148 🔗

As my old Games Master used to say as he whipped my buttocks with a leather strap, “son, why do you always forget to bring your kit”?

59761 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Biker, 1, #604 of 1148 🔗

Are you smoking the garden plants again?

59764 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Nick Rose, #605 of 1148 🔗

We are the rotting flowers in a garden of weeds.

59766 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 1, #606 of 1148 🔗

I hope we smell really bad, then.

59780 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 2, #607 of 1148 🔗

As pungent as cat piss

59746 Lili, replying to Lili, 6, #608 of 1148 🔗

Hello everyone. I’ve already read some positive stories on here from people who have tried out not wearing a silencing muzzle. However, let’s not forget D-day is not until Friday. I know we will do this anyway but let us all share as many stories as possible. I wonder if there could be a specific tab for these? Or a specific forum?

59753 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Lili, 2, #609 of 1148 🔗

Only one full shopping day left till English Muzzle Day.

It’s been years since I’ve known such a laugh. It’s going to be so boring when all this is over.

59756 kbeanie, 2, #610 of 1148 🔗
59757 Keen Cook, replying to Keen Cook, 26, #611 of 1148 🔗

Long post. Bit of a journey. Out and about in leafy East Yorkshire. Called into Sainsburys and Waitrose to stock up on essentials in prep for Friday and also to ask about mask policy. Someone said last week that Sainsburys do a lanyard – they do – ask at Customer services – for Hidden Disabilities Autism, Dementia and Anxiety. It’s thick bright green coloured with sunflowers and the board with their policy was up on display. I’ve got one. I’m not wearing a mask to go shopping in spite of what my MP said yesterday. East Yorkshire has the lowest number of cases in the county and as we know the risk of coming across someone with the virus is 1 in 2300 and the risk diminishing each day. I live on my own (widowed last year), green leafy village, rarely have someone round (Toby mentioned a LS dating app on his London Calling podcast -yes please Toby I’d sign up!) so I am 100% sure I don’t have the virus – so I’m not going to pass it on – and anyway why would I want to get up close and personal enough to breathe all over a random shopper?
But I do get anxious – first noticed with a high stress job some 13 years ago – heart palpillations, beta blockers prescribed. Not had any reason to take them again until March 13th this year when it all kicked off as I was due to go skiing on March 14th and the swirling black clouds were everyone – very stressful. Saved a load of hassle and didn’t go. But heart definitely didn’t like it and as my GP was closed, didn’t bother them – just worked out I probably needed to step back abit and calm down and take the pills again. Better now. But I’m not going to put a muzzle on as it might well cause the anxiety to come back. So as I’m going to wear the Hidden Disabiliity lanyard (and badge if it every arrives) I now feel uneasy. I’m not breaking the law according to Sainsburys (they get my custom from now on) but how far do I push it? I’m off to France end next week and – again like an earlier post – feel I’m not up to pushing against the French state (my language isn’t good enough!). But I’m normally happy to comply, I pay my taxes, don’t break the speed limits that often, think I contribute to society in many ways etc.
But this makes me feel I’m on the lines of becoming a rebel – someone who may well break these crazy, ill thought out ambigous rules that have no grounding in science that I can see and appear to being made up on the hoof by immoral, vacillating and incompetent politicians.
No, No, No. I am simply not going to comply.

59765 ▶▶ annie, replying to Keen Cook, 6, #612 of 1148 🔗

Good on yer! A but of true Yorkshire stubbornness is just what’s needed! Go for it!

59768 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Keen Cook, 7, #613 of 1148 🔗

Your last paragraph sums all this nonsense wonderfully. Well done. And please, there’s nothing wrong with being a rebel!

59782 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to bluemoon, 4, #614 of 1148 🔗

Thank you Annie & blue moon! I can feel a streak of rock in my soul breaking out.

59854 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to bluemoon, 3, #615 of 1148 🔗

In Edinburgh . Used to work here 30 years ago. Place is all but closed with shops guarded lest an unmasked virus carrier tried to spend any money. Hardrock Cafe takes your temperature then asks for face muzzles if you want to visit the shop part. And yet Wee Jimmy is popular. Does not compute .

59785 ▶▶ Guirme, replying to Keen Cook, 10, #616 of 1148 🔗

I have now done five mask free shops in Scotland without any problems. However and rather perversely I was refused service today for not wearing a mask in Ramsdens, a business exempt from the mask wearing regulations in Scotland! My general policy is to stick to small shops – they appreciate the business.

59790 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Keen Cook, 4, #617 of 1148 🔗

To be fair, to my mind if I decide to go abroad knowing what the rules are wherever I am going I probably ought to abide by them – it’s not my country, I don’t have to go there, and essentially I’m a guest. So I won’t be going anywhere where they mandate muzzles.

This doesn’t apply if I visit Scotland of course.

In my own country things are different though.

59921 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Keen Cook, 6, #618 of 1148 🔗

Well said, I’m with you all the way. I too will not ge wearing a mask, ever! I will be using the exemption strategy. If the shop will not let me in I will sight the disability & discrimination act. Tell them I will be writing to Head office for a full explanation & informing them that they will be receiving notification from my lawyer!

59944 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Keen Cook, 4, #619 of 1148 🔗

Rebels are desperately needed. There is no sitting on the fence anymore. Being a ‘good ctizen’ ain’t gonna wash

59762 Fiat, replying to Fiat, #620 of 1148 🔗

New Kansas album, “The Absence of Presence’.

“The absence of presence fills the air, I know you’re here but you’re not really there…”

That about sums it up.

59783 ▶▶ Martin, replying to Fiat, #621 of 1148 🔗

A memorable quote from R.D. Laing’s <i>The Politics of Experience</i>: “We conform to a presence that is everywhere elsewhere.” An existential observation pithily stated – Laing’s trademark – mirroring perfectly our current madness: mask as a symbol of concern for others everywhere present but somewhere else because few care for anyone but themselves.

59763 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #622 of 1148 🔗

UK Column today introduces a new government research document that lays out the strategy for the coming winter. Important viewing I suggest.

59814 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 2, #623 of 1148 🔗

You do have to be wary of some UK Column obsessions – but they have done a good job on Covid.

Their detailing of the background to the pompously titled ‘Academy of Medical Sciences’ was a fascinating exposure of a government front organisation, using graduates of the Mengele School of Health Sciences.

59767 MDH, replying to MDH, 17, #624 of 1148 🔗

Afternoon fellow sceptics. Just reading the comments about Freaky Friday, and the sheer bloody insanity of it is so great that I think it’s easy to lose sight of because it is causing so much anger and distress.

At the end of the day, we are finding ways to circumvent an idiotic prohibition so we can buy food. No-one here is talking about discretionary spending. No-one.

How on earth does this square with rebuilding a collapsed economy? Because nothing says “retail therapy” like covering your face with a wet rag during a heatwave, does it?

It would be funny if it wasn’t inducing panic attacks.

59775 ▶▶ Julian, replying to MDH, 19, #625 of 1148 🔗

Someone referred to a YouGov poll indicating that the people who have said they will shop LESS because of masks outnumber those who say they will shop MORE, by 8 percentage points. Own goal. But this was never about helping the economy, it’s about helping the evil ones keep the lies going.

59917 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, 2, #626 of 1148 🔗

Absolutely, subjugation.

59819 ▶▶ annie, replying to MDH, 6, #627 of 1148 🔗

Yes, and Crocodile Dickhead wouldn’t be so vocal if she didn’t expect widespread resistance.

59821 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to annie, 1, #628 of 1148 🔗

Good point!

59833 ▶▶ cognomen, replying to MDH, 4, #629 of 1148 🔗

Similarly, nothing says “retail therapy” like queuing in the wind and rain to get into Matalan.

59857 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to MDH, #630 of 1148 🔗

Ordered mayonnaise and other dry foods from https://www.realfoods.co.uk , good prices, great service and with me the next day.

59887 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Victoria, #631 of 1148 🔗

Ooh, thank you for that link – I think we’ll be ordering some things from them!

60128 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MDH, 2, #632 of 1148 🔗

Shopping is already a dystopian, miserable experience with the antisocial distancing that muzzling will simply hasten the demise of the shops.

This is what we get for not having economists on Sage. Bet Whitty and Vallance never had to go shopping.

I think we should force the entire government together with Sage to go on a “shopping spree” with all the insane measures they’ve put in place. They have to do it one whole day with no toilets and not much choice for lunch or coffee.

See how they like it.

59771 Bella, replying to Bella, 8, #633 of 1148 🔗

This was posted here a couple of weeks ago and I have only now had a chance to read it. In that couple of weeks things have changed to make it even more relevant, and I would urge people to read it. I don’t know how long people want to pretend that this is just rank incompetence worldwide. It’s more than that. Twelve minute read and then do a bit of your own digging if you’re not convinced. I am..


Apropos of which: My IT guy visited me today in full fuck-off bomber pilot face mask with detachable washable filter, which he proudly showed off. I said take it off or lose my business. He did. He has young children. I wondered if he knew how terrified children are of seeing that day after day. I told him he had a responsibility NOT to wear a mask, that this was a massive con and/or over-reaction and he was perpetuating the fear. (Over-reaction if not a con, but it is a con). .He’s a grumpy sod but has a great sense of humour but you can’t see it in his eyes, you have to see his mouth. All his’ cheekiness’, his rebelliousness (and he is usually rebellious), is expressed through his facial expressions and mostly his mouth. I told him this to pacify him. He didn’t get it. He thought he was keeping people safe. I told him he’d been had. He took my PC away. When he returns it I told him to come without a mask.(Oh and gloves. What good do fucking gloves do?)

59842 ▶▶ PaulK, replying to Bella, 2, #634 of 1148 🔗

I saw the Grace Van Berkum post via Keep Britain Free forum. I logged into the World Economic Forum and saw it with my own eyes. All the evidence now points to this being a global plan with most countries complicit and signed up for, rather than incompetence of our government. At least 50 years in the making and Covid-19(84) seems to be the trigger.

59777 Biker, 4, #635 of 1148 🔗

Don Diego de la Vega wore a mask and no one knew he was Zorro.

59788 MDH, replying to MDH, 13, #636 of 1148 🔗

Good news for me – I haven’t seen my mum since the beginning of March. She may not even remember me. But I’ll remember the f*ckers who condemned thousands of old people to die alone and frightened. They’ll rue the day.

60366 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to MDH, #637 of 1148 🔗

I am looking forward to hundreds of class action lawsuits.

59791 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 24, #638 of 1148 🔗

Radio 5:

Trendy wokes kicking off because their details which they gave to go into pubs etc has been sold on to marketing companies.
F*****g priceless. Didn’t see that one coming did you f**k heads

59795 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 10, #639 of 1148 🔗

One lady said the landlord phoned her and asked her out.
Outraged they were.
Give out your details to any old Tom Dick or Harry and what do you expect.
Funny as fuck.

GDPR my arse.

59836 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Sarigan, 3, #640 of 1148 🔗

Is Tom related to Cressida?

59806 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Sarigan, 2, #641 of 1148 🔗

Love it !.

59853 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sarigan, 2, #642 of 1148 🔗

This is so funny!

59856 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sarigan, 1, #643 of 1148 🔗

“Didn’t see that one coming” no, because the dimwits are busy looking out for an invisible ‘killer’!

59909 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, #644 of 1148 🔗

Not ‘funny’ at all, this creature of the immoral fascist right that is now the Tory Party in government,. Forget the ‘woke’ typification – they’re irrelevant.

59792 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #645 of 1148 🔗

The Unherd article Toby links to is perhaps ‘surprisingly sound’ by Unherd’s standards. And it does read well until you get nearly to the end where a nasty shock awaits the reader. (The emphasis is mine):

‘Even if we don’t ever eradicate the disease, we will probably end up in a place where we can live with it. In the meantime, though, it’s still absolutely crucial that we control the disease. Beale in particular says that “policy-wise, it’d be completely insane to let it get out of control now,” because “by this time next year” it’s likely that we will have an effective and widely available vaccine . “Better to lock down even at considerable economic cost and wait for that,” he says, although he acknowledges the calculus changes if the vaccine will be much longer coming.” ‘

That would be Rupert Beale of the Crick institute. Partners: Medical Research Council, Cancer Research UK, Wellcome and three of the UK’s leading universities – UCL, I mperial College London and King’s College London. But don’t worry, they’ve signed up to BLM!

I enjoyed the Conservative Woman and Sun articles though – excellent!

59812 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #646 of 1148 🔗

Yep. Graduates of the Mengele School of Medicine are all over this like a rash.

59868 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #647 of 1148 🔗

Even at considerable economic cost. Has he seen what’s happening with gold and silver? And I bet he has a nice nest egg and cash on hand so he’s alright Jack.

These people should never EVER be allowed to drive policy.

59815 stewart, replying to stewart, 14, #648 of 1148 🔗

In The Spectator interesting news about a Norwegian randomised study on the use of masks that concludes they are ineffective and recommends AGAINST their use.

59831 ▶▶ Edna, replying to stewart, #649 of 1148 🔗

Could you post a link? I can’t find it 🙂

59837 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Marvin42, 1, #651 of 1148 🔗

Thank you!

59852 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Edna, 2, #652 of 1148 🔗

Worth reading and quoting extensively

59953 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to stewart, 1, #653 of 1148 🔗

Sarcasm alert!

I’m sure Andrew Marr will be challenging our wonderful politicians about just this issue (or similar), on his next programme.

59817 annie, replying to annie, 13, #654 of 1148 🔗

Is anybody here an expert on child development?
I’m wondering what effect the obliteration of faces will have on small children’s ability to interpret expressions. I believe the smile, signalling friendly feelings, is universal (though it can be fake), but many other expressions are surely culturally conditioned and need to be learned?
Are the Fascist pigs breeding up a generation of emotional imbeciles?

59823 ▶▶ stewart, replying to annie, 11, #655 of 1148 🔗

I work in education and have done so for the last 20 years.

I am not aware of any study of this sort. There is the well know study withholding physical contact of babies, which was stopped early because the babies started dying.


But frankly, do we need to conduct a scientific study to conclude that putting masks on children is a terrible thing?

Some things are just self evident.

59839 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to stewart, 7, #656 of 1148 🔗

The President of Belarus calls it child abuse to put a mask on a child.

59846 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Jane in France, 4, #657 of 1148 🔗

Belarus, population fatality rate: 5 per million – no lockdown
UK, population fatality rate: 75 per million – lockdown, facemasks

60365 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stewart, #658 of 1148 🔗

And copious amounts of vodka consumed.

59957 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jane in France, 3, #659 of 1148 🔗

I do too. I can feel the red mist rising when I see a masked child.

59892 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to annie, 5, #660 of 1148 🔗

When very young children draw Mummy & Daddy – or whatever other persons they are ‘parented ‘ by – they invariably draw huge balloon like faces and tiny stick like bodies. I am sure this is because it is faces that are of paramount importance in human communication and interaction. My daughter, nephews and nieces all did this, despite their very different personalities.

Hiding behind masks is passive child abuse

59969 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Strange Days, 2, #661 of 1148 🔗

Ye, you can get special pictures of people (I forget what they are called) that show the areas other people pay the most attention to increased in size. Heads/faces enormous.

59905 ▶▶ RickH, replying to annie, 6, #662 of 1148 🔗

I don’t think that you need to be an ‘expert’. The measures inflicted on children are child abuse – pure and simple. No doubt a lot of individuals who quail at the notion of paedophilia actually endorse this much more widespread abuse.

We have been back to normal with our grandchildren since May – but we well remember how on first meeting they flinched away from coming close.

I’m glad to say this was quickly eliminated by normal behaviour – but, having a number of educators in the family, we remain very aware of how child abuse is being enforced in schools.

This is an area where the underlying evil (let’s not mince words) is being writ large.

60049 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to annie, 4, #663 of 1148 🔗

They will end up terrified of strangers, being in close proximity to anyone else, psychologically dependent on face masks, and suffer from OCD about the possibility of infection.

60116 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lms23, 4, #664 of 1148 🔗

And will have weaker immune systems because of the excessive cleanliness, sanitising and the masks. We’re raising a generation of people who will grow up physically and psychologically damaged

59822 Marvin42, replying to Marvin42, 6, #665 of 1148 🔗

If only there was some evidence based research to say it could take 200,000 people to wear face masks in order to prevent 1 single infection per week surely it would be enough to stop the new compulsory rule in its tracks?

Luckily there is:


59849 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Marvin42, 4, #666 of 1148 🔗

From the document Marvin (above) has quoted:
‘Given the low prevalence of COVID-19 currently, even if facemasks are assumed to be effective, the difference in infection rates between using facemasks and not using facemasks would be small. Assuming that 20% of people infectious with SARS-CoV-2 do not have symptoms, and assuming a risk reduction of 40% for wearing facemask, 200 000 people would need to wear facemasks to prevent one new infection per week in the current epidemiological situation.’

59970 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella, 2, #667 of 1148 🔗

I wonder whether we should suppress that information, if true. One new infection would be enough for the loonies to say it was worth it.

60325 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Marvin42, #668 of 1148 🔗

Its a bit like how they stop 140000 people from smoking weed to stop one case of weed induced psychosis.

60364 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Two-Six, #669 of 1148 🔗

They are obsessed with the number 0. 0 cancer deaths, 0 road death accidents, zero deaths for anything, etc. Zero zero zero.

59824 Paul, replying to Paul, 36, #670 of 1148 🔗

I’m absolutely bloody furious,my wife has just been to Matalan (in England) and a pair of muzzled up middle-aged arseholes had a go at her because she wasn’t masked,’there’s always one ‘ was one of the things they said.It’s lucky for them that I wasn’t there !.
I have tried over the weeks to engage with these sort of people to show them a different view of things but I’m done now,no more being nice,no more smiling and trying to make a joke of things,they are so far gone they are beyond help.That’s up to them but they can damn well leave us un-brainwashed alone,we can make our own decisions thankyou very much.
These masked types make me sick,not the elderley ones that shuffle around looking absolutely terrified but the ones who walk around,heads held high,in that self-righteous I’m a better person than you and I do as I am told way.They all seem to have homemade muzzles made out of old curtains aswell.
For months all of us have been trying to carry on and retain as much normal as possible,but now these imbeciles have decided to crawl out from under their stones they expect the world to change to make them feel better,I will not do that for them.

59834 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Paul, 14, #671 of 1148 🔗

Hi Paul

Sorry for the unwanted & unwarranted attention your wife has received, if my wife had received such attention, I would be livid aswell.

Have you heard what the Chief of The Met police, Dane Cressida Dick said about mask wearing…

Speaking on LBC, to Nick Ferrari

“”My hope is that the vast majority of people will comply and people will be shamed into leaving the store.

“If somebody is concerned about what’s going on in their store, then yes, of course they should call the police and we will try to assist.”

No hope

59850 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Dave #KBF, 16, #672 of 1148 🔗

Shame on you Cressida Dick, now you are shaming the people with disabilities and severe anxiety. Totally unacceptable!!

59886 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Victoria, 9, #673 of 1148 🔗

Have just made a complaint on the Met. Police website saying the same thing. Let’s shame Cressida Dick for a change.

59924 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Margaret, 10, #674 of 1148 🔗

Wow, just got a reply within thirty minutes. Must be a record for police response. It appears that my complaint doesn’t meet the requirements of the Police Reform Act 2002 and I have no right of review on this decision. Well you could have knocked me down with a feather!!!

59959 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Margaret, 6, #675 of 1148 🔗

Complain to LBC. Just about the only outlet that may make something of it anyway.

59888 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Victoria, 3, #676 of 1148 🔗

Just over a year ago Cressida Dick said:

“Overall police detection rates nationally are low, woefully low I would say in some instances, and the courts are emptying, not filling”


Seems enough to be getting on with without policing the Government’s bizzare edicts.

59929 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Dave #KBF, 15, #677 of 1148 🔗

This was exactly the same as Essex Police advised: they sent a really sinister leaflet to businesses. Not only did they advise people shopping to shame fellow-shoppers, they also seemed to be encouraging the same behaviour between friends and even within families. It was truly Orwellian.

The business owners on the BID WhatsApp page are wetting themselves at the moment asking which police number to call if they get someone in thier shop who won’t wear a mask. These arseholes (s’csue language) don’t give a flying f&*k when someone is burgled but they’re itching to get onto the rozzers if some poor hapless person is muzzle-less. No doubt the fuzz will appear mob-handed. God, this shit show is making me angry.

Special place in hell and all that …

60044 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #678 of 1148 🔗

The suggestion about the British public policing mask-wearing came from Hancock himself…

59941 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 9, #679 of 1148 🔗

I agree Paul. The ones in the flowery jobs are the worst, they are sanctimonious tossers. I really feel sorry for the elderly who have been scared witless into compliance, it’s heartbreaking to see some of them really struggle.

I hope ‘Mrs Paul’ is OK now …

59973 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 4, #680 of 1148 🔗

As rightfully angry as Paul is, it shows the measure of him that in his anger he understands with compassion there are many who are victims of all this and are vulnerable in need of sympathy.

There’s something really good about seeing that.

59996 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Basics, 10, #681 of 1148 🔗

I totally agree. I have absolutely no issue with the genuinely frightened and there are many who remain so. There are several who come into my shop and it really upsets me to see how wearing the mask impacts on them (one yesterday was quite clearly struggling for breath).

It’s the virtue-signallers I can’t abide, the ones who believe they are morally superior to those of us who don’t want to wear one.

60235 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 2, #682 of 1148 🔗

Yes,she’s okay now thankyou Kh,to say my blood was boiling would be an understatement,she’s a really kind and easy going person and it is so wrong for her to be picked on,this must be about the eighth time someone has had a go at her in the shops in the past few weeks,she been told to ‘step back !’,two metres,two metres !!’,’distance !’,’people like you spread the deadly virus !’,the funny thing is no-one has ever said anything when I am with her,they are just bullying cowards of the worst order.

60324 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 1, #683 of 1148 🔗

It really is, I see so many old folks really struggling with a mask on. They clearly look unwell. I would not be surprised to see an elderly person collapsed in the street in the not too distant future. They would be struggling even if they were unmasked.

60367 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 1, #684 of 1148 🔗

People in Wuhan wearing masks were filmed collapsing in the streets, viewers were left to assume they were collapsing from the covid when it was really CO2 contamination.

60112 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 2, #685 of 1148 🔗

Very sorry to hear that Paul. I actually emailed my line manager flagging up that it could happen to us.

They should count themselves lucky that they’re not in Glasgow or a dodgy part of London. I can assure you that they will be beaten up for their “interference”

60283 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Paul, 2, #686 of 1148 🔗

i don’t think i will be able to contain my anger with an “inner voice” and i think if anyone says a duff comment i am likely to lash out loudly and sweary and tell them not to be a bleep sanctimonious mask nazi! That’ll get them scurrying and tutting. think i’ve reached the point of not caring a jot what people think of me!
Or maybe just smile sweetly – oohh i forgot can’t smile as will be masked – (well in my case i wear bandana thing round my neck and will just pull up when needed to get in the door and it isn’t tight enough so will constantly slip down, great shame!

59825 Cecil B, 21, #687 of 1148 🔗

Just booked onto my online banking. As I did, flashed across the screen in huge letters was

” Beware Coronavirus scams”

Have they only just noticed its a con job?

59832 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #688 of 1148 🔗

Another Carl Heneghan article. He’s on a roll!


Government communications currently seem to avoid telling people where their risks from Covid are actually low. There is a general reluctance to speak openly about how risk is assessed and the trade-offs there are with other competing health risks and economic impacts. The key questions aren’t being articulated – often the information the government is using to answer questions is not publicised and any hypotheses about the answers aren’t being shared.

Efforts to help the public navigate these new risks are being hamstrung by this absence of open and mature communication. For this reason, those of us involved in that effort have written to ministers to ask them to show more trust in the public by offering clarity about their thinking on the risk factors, transmission and trade-offs of the disease.

59841 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #689 of 1148 🔗

I think he is probably pretty angry by now but doing a good job of staying calm and professional.

The above is very eloquent, and to the point.

He’s been a real star through this.

We’ll make him Minister for Science (not “the science”) when we found Freedonia.

59894 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 2, #690 of 1148 🔗

That’s a good assessment. His CEBM group and their published data has been a rock of sanity, and he has always been careful to understate the obvious conclusion that the official narrative is a load of bollocks.

A marked contrast with the assorted graduates from the Mengele Academy of Public Health with their pursuit of official favour.

59899 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #691 of 1148 🔗

Mengele Academy of Public Health ” In the New Freedonia, you can be in the charge of the Ministry of Communication 🙂

59978 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, #692 of 1148 🔗

Yes, in his most recent interview he definitely looked like he was working hard to keep his cool!

59844 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #693 of 1148 🔗

Professor Heneghan has been the calm voice of sanity throughout this farce.

59847 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #694 of 1148 🔗

Unfortunately a lot of people have this view of statistics and probability:

59851 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nobody2020, #695 of 1148 🔗

And they all tend to look like the dumb and dumber geek in the photo!

60040 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to A. Contrarian, #696 of 1148 🔗

Maybe he’ll start to think there’s another agenda at play….

59840 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 16, #697 of 1148 🔗

My mum + stepdad just received the masks they ordered online. They genuinely make me really uneasy. It’s not normal. My mum, a supermarket worker, is already saying how uncomfortable, hot + claustrophobic it is; “This is going to be hard for 7 hours. Don’t think I can even wear it for 7 minutes”. They are being strongly advised to wear them but it’s not mandatory. And only on the shop floor, not behind the till as they have screens.

Who else thinks that people harping on about just wearing them, who have never tried, will soon realise they’re absolutely HORRENDOUS to wear? They’re not natural or normal outside of a medical setting

59858 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to kbeanie, 4, #698 of 1148 🔗

The sad thing is, once those wearing masks start getting headaches (and, yes, there was a randomised controlled trial where people reported headaches [1]) those headaches will be written off to either “stress” or fantom COVID-19 manifestation…

1. Jacobs & al. (2009) Jacobs JL, Ohde S, Takahashi O, Tokuda Y, Omata
F, Fukui T. Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the
common cold among health care workers in Japan: a randomized
controlled trial. Am J Infect Control. 2009;37(5):417-419.

59865 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to IMoz, 3, #699 of 1148 🔗

As someone who has always been prone to headaches + migraines, this is a big concern of mine. That plus the fact I have heat intolerance, have trouble regulating my body temperature, regular shortness of breath, heart palpitations…the list goes on 😂 (I have a condition called POTS, in case anyone was thinking what the heck is wrong with me hahaha. It doesn’t make me anymore vulnerable though)

I am tempted to seek exemption as I have a genuine issue but feel like that’s taking the easy road

59877 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kbeanie, 10, #700 of 1148 🔗

Why are you taking the easy road.

Wearing a mask is not natural and I bet it causes distress and anxiety for everyone so if you don’t feel comfortable or safe (that includes your mum) don’t wear it. I consider myself a fit and healthy 42 year old but the thought of wearing one gives me palpations

59879 ▶▶▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to stefarm, 5, #701 of 1148 🔗

I’m yet to wear my mask at all. It came free with some clothes I ordered a while back + is one of those washable ones. I don’t often go into shops anyway but will likely make a point of avoiding them further. No more mooching in bookshops for me 😣

59923 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to kbeanie, 2, #702 of 1148 🔗

‘It came free with some clothes I ordered a while back’ – so companies were marketing masks *before* the law came in??? Were they given advance warning?

59990 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Carrie, 3, #703 of 1148 🔗

I was clearing a table yesterday and, as is their wont, a customer had left behind a load of rubbish after clearing out her handbag. Found a receipt from a clothes shop in the town for two face masks: £17.50! Someone’s cashing in and not half.

60050 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 2, #704 of 1148 🔗

You get some seriously disgusting people in your shop. I wouldn’t dream of clearing out my bag and leaving my rubbish behind on a cafe table. Yuk!!

60132 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #705 of 1148 🔗

You think that’s disgusting, cleaning the toilet after a busy Saturday is much, much worse!

Yes, this cafe lark has been one hell of an eye-opener …

60322 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, #706 of 1148 🔗

That’s pretty sinister.

59992 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kbeanie, 1, #707 of 1148 🔗

You could always sell it on eBay, say it has special healing powers and reduces oxygen by 100%

59880 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to kbeanie, 5, #708 of 1148 🔗

Given that masks measurably decrease available breathable oxygen saturation (some health and safety dude Stateside did an experiment on himself) and there was a study of surgeons where their SpO2 was measured prior to and after an operation where they wore masks and the SpO2 was found to be measurably lower, but also their heart rate raised drastically [1]; quite frankly, it’d be stupid of you to wear a mask in the circumstances—especially if you get light-headedness due to PoTS.

1. Beder & al. (2008) Beder A, Büyükkoçak U, Sabuncuoğlu H, Keskil ZA, Keskil S. Preliminary report on surgical mask induced deoxygenation during major surgery. Neurocirugia (Astur) . 2008;19(2):121-126. doi:10.1016/s1130-1473(08)70235-5

59904 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to kbeanie, 7, #709 of 1148 🔗

You can’t seek exemption, by the way – nobody can exempt you but yourself. A GP could write a note, but they’ve been told not to waste their time doing it. It’s self-exemption only and whether or not you want to wear a badge is up to you. The badge proves nothing in reality, but may temper the negative reactions of idiots somewhat.

59906 ▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to kbeanie, 10, #710 of 1148 🔗

I am taking exemption and have not set foot in a doctor’s for 25 years. I don’t want to wear one, detest the sight of them and won’t wear one. No No NO Mr Hancock. If they were proven effective I would toe the line. Looking at America it won’t end here, certain Bolshevik’s there would make muzzles mandatory at HOME.

59933 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to nottingham69, 5, #711 of 1148 🔗

The most ironic part is that prior to COVID-19, the use of masks in operating theatres was being questioned: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/ — Da Zhou, Charlie et al. “Unmasking the surgeons: the evidence base behind the use of facemasks in surgery.” Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine vol. 108,6 (2015): 223-8. doi:10.1177/0141076815583167

60045 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kbeanie, 1, #712 of 1148 🔗

Easy road is better than making yourself ill by complying.
Besides we need lots of non mask-wearing examples out there!

60035 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to IMoz, 3, #713 of 1148 🔗

The headaches are caused by reduced O2 and increased CO2.

60042 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lms23, #714 of 1148 🔗

Together with a flushed complexion, first signs of hypercapnia.

60069 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Lms23, #715 of 1148 🔗

Indeed, but why would anyone admit to a causal and obvious reaction when you can blame it on something opaque like stress and still be good to mandate the mask wearing?

59873 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to kbeanie, 5, #716 of 1148 🔗

Masks may help in some circumstances we are told, but only if you are infected. If you’re not infected they do nothing to stop the spread and may have negative effects on health.

Given the low prevalance of the virus the vast majority of people can be considered healthy with no infection. Therefore the vast majority of people are doing nothing to affect the spread of the virus and taking on the risk of harm for no real benefit.

The balance of risk will swing depending on the prevalance of the virus but as things stand currently, most people are doing no good wearing a mask.

59919 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to kbeanie, #717 of 1148 🔗

Can they not get visors instead?

60067 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Carrie, 2, #718 of 1148 🔗

Visors are even more of a damp squib, what exactly do people think they protect from?

60043 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kbeanie, 3, #719 of 1148 🔗

If it’s not mandatory, she absolutely mustn’t wear one. After all, shopworkers haven’t needed them for the last 4 months!

60106 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kbeanie, 3, #720 of 1148 🔗

I tried wearing a face covering and it made me feel dizzy and had a headache which lasted until the next day. And it was a very bad headache where I felt I’ve been hit by a sledgehammer.

I also get panic attacks and that’s what I started feeling before the headache. It was awful and how the government can mandate what is akin to torture is bizarre.

59843 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 5, #721 of 1148 🔗

Just checked my risk level at https://www.covidodds.com/

From none other than Prof Pants down too!!

I am more likely to die from non covid than covid.

Worst-case, assuming no lockdown and no mitigation, for an average person of this age, not adjusted for gender.

59848 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Sarigan, 2, #722 of 1148 🔗

I have a preexisting condition but it doesn’t put me in the vulnerable category, so just selected that I don’t have any

59859 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to kbeanie, 4, #723 of 1148 🔗

0.03% chance of death. Are you happy setting foot outside?

59866 ▶▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Sarigan, 3, #724 of 1148 🔗

It’s a tough one, I’ll admit. A real dilemma

59855 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sarigan, 3, #725 of 1148 🔗

Apparently I’ve got more chance of treading in rocking horse shit than dying of ‘it’.

Loving the caveat

: the non-COVID risks are based on the population of the United States, and may not be fully representative of other countries. The figures provided are subject to various errors and uncertainties that are hard to estimate. For details of each calculation, click the question mark icons above.

59874 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to stefarm, 3, #726 of 1148 🔗

“The figures provided are subject to various errors”

He meant ‘bugs’

59916 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #727 of 1148 🔗


60005 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to richard riewer, #728 of 1148 🔗

Corona virus?

59913 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to stefarm, 3, #729 of 1148 🔗

‘… may not be fully representative of other countries’ and … ‘The figures provided are subject to various errors and uncertainties that are hard to estimate’ should be accompanied by a warning label. This is Junk Science Newspeak.

60028 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stefarm, 3, #730 of 1148 🔗

I’ve got more chance of drowning in rocking horse shit than dying of “it”.

59863 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sarigan, 3, #731 of 1148 🔗

But if you went out 1M times you would die 1300 times.

59872 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sarigan, 2, #732 of 1148 🔗

I wonder if he’ll submit the source code to git hub so everyone can take the piss out of it again.

How that guy still has a job…

59885 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sarigan, 1, #733 of 1148 🔗

Did you notice the fall-about joke in the bibliography on this site? :

Ferguson, N. M., et al. Impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) to reduce COVID19 mortality and healthcare demand. 16 March 2020.

🙂 🙂 🙂

60026 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sarigan, 3, #734 of 1148 🔗

My risk as a 54 years old male is 0.48% if I catch Covid and 0.72% from all other risks. Looks like I’ll have to stay in from now on, because of all those other risks out there…

59862 Bella, replying to Bella, 33, #735 of 1148 🔗

My mother (in her eighties) has been in hospital and they won’t discharge her because she is anxious. She has been in eight days and they won’t tell her (or me) anything,of course she’s anxious. Finally they are going to send her for respite care for two weeks. Care home phoned me, but no, it’s not respite, she has to be in solitary confinement for two weeks despite having negative Covid tests (twice) before she can actually see another unmasked human being. Yes, that’ll do a lot for her anxiety.. So can someone tell me what is the fucking point of the test? Positive and they close down Leicester for weeks, negative (as in my mum) and solitary confinement for two weeks. So the world has gone insane. I said this was abuse, they hung up on me. Now tell me this is just incompetence.. If you have a negative test why the hell do you have to be in isolation?

59870 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Bella, 11, #736 of 1148 🔗

That is disgraceful!! If this is happening regularly, why is it not being publicised?

Oh wait. It doesn’t go with their narrative 😠 😤 😠 😤

59878 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to kbeanie, 2, #737 of 1148 🔗

They used to torture, burn and drown people for being witches and heretics and people would clap and cheer because it was all for the greater good. Things haven’t changed very much since those times.

59882 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to kbeanie, 1, #738 of 1148 🔗

Yellow, Lazy Journalism.

59883 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella, 5, #739 of 1148 🔗

Your only mistake is to assume that there is rationality in this charade.

There is an objective – but that’s different.

59935 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to RickH, 7, #740 of 1148 🔗

I know that. I said to the care home manager what about sunlight and Vitamin D? You run a care home, you must know vitamin D is essential for battling respiratory diseases. She wouldn’t budge. I know what the objective is Rick – I’ve been banging on about it for weeks – but do not think for one minute these (stupid) people are complicit, just ignorant. But they are not fighting for those that need the support. That sickens me.

60021 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 1, #741 of 1148 🔗


59915 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, 2, #742 of 1148 🔗

Can you ask Francis Hoar for legal advice on this? A negative test should be enough…

59937 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, 2, #743 of 1148 🔗

I could, but care home manager says under no circumstances will they change their policy

60025 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 3, #744 of 1148 🔗

You might be surprised how much difference a bit of weighted legalese can make. Worth a try.

Any journalists who might take up your case? Allison Pearson is collecting stories. Peter Hitchens. Any other suggestions?

Fighting is better than just feeling frustrated.

59934 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella, 3, #745 of 1148 🔗

Haven’t got the words Bella. You sound so calm – I can’t think for anger after reading . As Carrie says is Legal a route? Some kind of second review needed.

60020 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 1, #746 of 1148 🔗

So inhumane!
I can’t impagine how these people compute.

60031 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Bella, 1, #747 of 1148 🔗

I think it’s possible to have CV19 and not produce antibodies, assuming that’s what they’ve tested for.

COVID-19 Antibodies: Why is Everyone Testing Negative? – NEW DATA

(I haven’t watched the video, but came across it earlier today)

The care homes are being ultra cautious because so many were infected and died, in many cases because people were sent from hospital into the care home, without anyone realising they had CV19.

You’ll need to make sure she has entertainment, e.g. radio, tv, whatever will occupy her.

59884 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 7, #748 of 1148 🔗

There’s another way to look at this:

Wearing a mask requires an extra level of attentiveness and discipline, not to mention it being the correct type, for there to be minimal (if any) benefit. However any lack of discipline and use not only makes it ineffective, it also increases the risk of getting other conditions.

It’s like if you go on a diet to lose fat. The ones that work are those that are easy to maintain, that can withstand cravings and even going off course. The stricter the less the adherence. The stricter the more chance of yo-yoing and ending up in a worse place to where you are.

This is also the reason why masks were proposed as it is a “nudge”. But the problem isn’t the nudge, the problem is the mask success is so sensitive to be unworkable.

You can see this with social distancing. It is easier to maintain if you don’t go out that much. The more you interact the more you ‘cut corners” as it were. You push to see what it workable. And you end up reverting to the norm.

There are a core of people who are wearing masks now. It’ll be interesting to see how sick they get and what will break their adherence. In fact they probably already do with all the fiddling.

So actually doing nothing will save your health and be a habit you can maintain.

59946 ▶▶ annie, replying to mhcp, 2, #749 of 1148 🔗

Ice cream vendor today: takes mask off for p lunch break. Puts same mask back on.
I ask for cornet. He takes one ine in bare keft hand, tskes tissue in bare right hand, wraps tissue round cone.
Ooens freezer, pulls down mask, peersinti delths if freezer, pulls up mask, scoops out ice cresm, guves cirnet to me.
I lay cash into hus bare hand.
He puts chsnge into my bare bsnd.

59954 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 2, #750 of 1148 🔗

Sorry, above out of place and can’t edit or delete it. Please ignore.

60015 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #751 of 1148 🔗

I suppose bare hands are better than gloved ones. Might have been washed at least once in the interim.
Presumably he’d take the gloves off to wash his hands!

59889 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 13, #752 of 1148 🔗

I’m confused. As from today in Scotland, I can get a tattoo done or get a leg wax or my nails done but I cannot get an eye test (several months overdue). There is no sense in this.

59900 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Gillian, 4, #753 of 1148 🔗

or get any sort of decent treatment at a dentist

59922 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 4, #754 of 1148 🔗

Nicola knows best, apparently she is reading the science (yes) herself and taking real (yes) responsibility (yes).

59930 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 2, #755 of 1148 🔗

I thought she had outsourced it to Devi Sridhar, friend of Chelsea Clinton?

59940 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #756 of 1148 🔗

Devi is in the ear. May be pulling all the strings. It has definitely been announced how some expert or other was impressed with sturgeon reading along. Reading Devis book and so on perhaps.

Sturgeon has also answered in the daily press conference midway back that she is getting the SAGE info and has a Scottish pool of ‘talent’ (my word) to translate for the scottish senario.

You are thinking Scientifically, my comment above was about the presented politics.

59943 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #757 of 1148 🔗

Actually you have me wondering if devi took too much critism and has been pulled back from public facing. She will be back!

59964 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 6, #758 of 1148 🔗

Devi is no scientist, she is a public policy wonk, aka politician! If Ms Sturgeon had been serious about a genuine and learned scientific opinion she would have consulted the highly respected Hugh Pennington.

59974 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #759 of 1148 🔗

Unfortunately he’s reputedly a Unionist, so his opinions are of no value in the SNPeople’s Republic…

60006 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 1, #760 of 1148 🔗

Oooh. No wonder she kepts getting re-elected…

59890 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #761 of 1148 🔗

Slight update form the high street of Edinburgh. Not the actual High Street – that is dead as a dodo. Princes St where the chainshops are –
With a few exceptions all chain shops have removed bouncers/staff and barricade in door ways preventing customer access. Exceptions in the main being phone/tech shops.
Two or three shops are wearing plywood windows – break-ins I presume not insurance measures. Many (easily half) have Sale signs 50% the usual figure. If you work in a jewellers, I wish you luck. 10 or 11 shops are permanently closed most of those were before April.

Apple store is an absolute disgrace and so I spoke to two of the three(!) door staff. More staff than queue. Everyone gets laser temperature test – small security man fueled up on himself and his black uniform including baseball cap and black mask was too pleased to announce if you refuse the temperture test you don’t get access. Apple clearly pride themselves on dictating to the world coming technology. With their shop security they look like boifacists who think they have a right to take personal data. Deeply unpleasant and out of place in Britain.

Finally spotted graffitti on starbucks shop front – tax evaison costs lives #NHS – black pen on a black wall. Woke.

59897 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 5, #762 of 1148 🔗

Sadly “out of place in Britain” refers to a Britain that no longer exists, and is never coming back. Even if by some miracle this can be turned around, that which comes after will still be unrecognisable from before.

59902 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Richard O, 6, #763 of 1148 🔗

Sadly I believe you are correct, we do not have children, but we do have nephews & nieces. What is life going to be for them going forward?

No what it was this time last year.

59903 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard O, 3, #764 of 1148 🔗

All of the other shops were doing an equivalent of the ridiculous Apple shop. The have virtually all rowed back. You can feel the desperation in the sale signs. Smaller independents are not offering Sales. Noticeable difference in marketing.

60376 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, #765 of 1148 🔗

Same here in Central London. Apple still has the ridiculous queuing system but I’m noticing that less and less people are going in and you’re spot on with the sense of desperation, I could sense it even walking past, I see shop assistants looking on in anticipation if someone would walk into their shops then sense the disappointment if they simply walk past.

59896 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 1, #766 of 1148 🔗

I’m not so sure about the Atlantic article on herd immunity: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/herd-immunity-coronavirus/614035/ (may be behind a paywall)

It seems to misunderstand the idea of herd immunity, and get it mixed up with the R number – and seems to be very much in favour of the “new normal” and mask-wearing as the key to defeating the virus.

Other wealthy countries could hypothetically create societies that are effectively immune to further surges, where the effective herd-immunity threshold is low. Even in the U.S., it’s not too late to create a world in which you are not likely to get the coronavirus. We can wear masks and enable people to stay housed and fed without taking up dangerous work. But, judging by the decisions U.S. leaders have made so far, it seems that few places in the country will choose to live this way. Many cities and states will push backwards into an old way of life, where the herd-immunity threshold is high. Dangerous decisions will be amplified by the dynamic systems of society. People will travel and seed outbreaks in places that have worked tirelessly to contain the virus. In some cases, a single infected person will indirectly lead to hundreds or thousands of deaths.

Small preventive measures have big downstream effects. In other words, the herd in question determines its immunity. There is no mystery in how to drop the R0 to below 1 and reach an effective herd immunity: masks, social distancing, hand-washing, and everything everyone is tired of hearing about. It is already being done.

Not an expert by any means but from everything I’ve learnt over the last few months, it looks like this article seems to have got its science rather mixed up! I would have thought that most places that have reached herd immunity, or near to it, have done so despite any measures that were taken, not because of them.

59920 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Drawde927, 3, #767 of 1148 🔗

Lockdown measures, if done early enough and hard enough, would delay the point at which herd immunity is reached – maybe almost forever if you’re New Zealand.

60004 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 1, #768 of 1148 🔗

That’s what Whitty and Vallance meant at the beginning of March when they said it was too soon to lock down.

The big question now is why we’re still locked down four months later, when there’s barely any sign of the virus and the economy is tanking beyond redemption.

60013 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 2, #769 of 1148 🔗

Also now known as New Zealotland!

60023 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Julian, 1, #770 of 1148 🔗

It’s been said from the start that suppression, aka New Zealand, is an all-in bet on the uncovered cheque of a vaccine.
If that cheque remains uncovered, Kiwis will have to make a choice to either take it on the chin in one drove, or continue to live like the Sentinelese for good.
I wonder how history will regard Ardern then.

59972 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Drawde927, 4, #771 of 1148 🔗

There’s a lot of waffle in there and the stuff about butterflies and chos is nonsense– epidemics are nothing like the weather and are not chaotic.

You can drop the herd immunity threshold by a lot with small measures, and the more partial immunity you have, the less measures you need.

Right now in the UK we clearly don’t need more measures than we had in the week before 23rd March when infections had already started dropping.

60018 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to guy153, 2, #772 of 1148 🔗

Yes, the epidemics may not be chaotic, but this bullshitting government certainly is!

59898 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #773 of 1148 🔗

Stitch or paste 2+2=5 at the front of your mask.
Don’t forget 4 legs good, two legs better.

59942 ▶▶ anon, replying to richard riewer, 1, #774 of 1148 🔗

doubleplus good!

stay home stay safe!


~~healthy citizens never remove the face covering~~

59910 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #775 of 1148 🔗

Hi all

If you know who produced the graph for the section above titled “Number of People Testing Positive Dwindles to Almost Nothing” could you please ask them to contact mail AT lockdowntruth.org

If it was you, please get in touch as we want to use it for our legal action but want to check the source etc.

If anyone else knows the source or could produce the same graph that would be helpful.



59912 ▶▶ matt, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #776 of 1148 🔗

It was posted on yesterday’s page. I believe it referenced ONS as the source of the data – and the point as made that, while the data was available, this graph wasn’t published as a graph. Can’t remember who, sorry.

59914 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 2, #777 of 1148 🔗

It was me, and yes the source was ONS

59918 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #778 of 1148 🔗


60034 ▶▶▶ hat man, replying to Julian, #779 of 1148 🔗

A thing worth checking is whether the April and May data are directly comparable with the data from June and July. They may not be. At some point the range of testees expanded from ‘Pillar 1’ to include ‘Pillar 2’ (wider public) as well. Of course Pillar 1 (mainly including hospital patients) showed a much higher proportion of positive cases. By now the overall positivity ratio is right down to 0.5%, but the April-May data might be artificially high by comparison, because back then only Pillar 1 data were included, I believe, whereas now both Pillars 1 and 2 are. I made a graph of the Pillar 1 data from 6th March-30th April, at the end of which the positivity ration was down to 10%. It had been around 40% in early April. In ONS figures released for yesterday 21/7, Pillar 1 was down to 0.15%, even lower than the Pillar 2 data (0.73%). Hope this helps the action.

59925 Will, replying to Will, #780 of 1148 🔗

I have asked a couple of times but can anyone point me in the direction of the graph that shows Sweden has lower excess deaths than Denmark and Finland, please?

59926 Biker, 2, #782 of 1148 🔗

As my old Governess would say “a gentleman never tells” something i’ve lived by all these years.

59927 Tom Blackburn, #783 of 1148 🔗

Financial Times: Covid-19 unmasks weaknesses of English public health agency | Free to read.

59931 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 10, #784 of 1148 🔗

OMG, I think the governments LSD is working on me, I thought I was immune to it.
Yes I am scared of the virus
Yes I need to wear a face mask
Yes it was all worth it
Yes we all had to make a terrible sacrifice to stop the virus
Yes wearing masks will help stop the virus
Yes I need a vaccine
Yes I like working from home
Yes life is much better actually than it was
Yes we need to protect shop workers by wearing masks

We just got a reply from our lovely MP and she said this:

Dear Mrs Two-Six,
The Government’s decision to require people to wear face masks is, of course, in response to the extraordinary circustances we find ourselves in. It is part of our national effort to slow the transmission of the virus, allow the re-opening of the economy and most importantly protect those most vunerable to Covid-19 as evidence now shows the efficacy of such measures in enclosed spaced.

Furthermore, recent data has shown that sales assistants, cashiers and security guards have suffered disproportionately in this crisis. The death rate among shop assistants is 75% higher among men and 60% higher among women than in the general population. So as we reinstate shopping, we want to keep those workers safe also.”

I do appreciate the over-arching point you make about parliamentary scrutiny.

The Coronavirus Act was indeed an extraordinary piece of legislation which did receive full scrutiny and unanimous support from the House. This legislation and the powers it provides the government and necessary agencies will be reviewed and monitored by Parliament regularly, as will the work of Ministers and Civil Servants.”

OH OK then.

Now where are my gloves….

59948 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, 4, #785 of 1148 🔗

Sounds like another Common Purpose drone to me.

59958 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 3, #786 of 1148 🔗

Isnt that the same line as another MP served up to another LS just a day or so ago? I distinctly remember the 60 70 men women BS being looked at in detail.

59960 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 1, #787 of 1148 🔗

Yes it was dispatched probably shortly after it was delivered throught their door (by hand). A template response but to be fair Mrs 2-6 did use Simon Dolan’s template letter.

59980 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 4, #788 of 1148 🔗

The ‘disproportionate’ effect on shop workers was discussed several times. The percentage figures are correct, but mostly because the absolute numbers are tiny.

60319 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, #789 of 1148 🔗

yep I am gonna write to her and state that fact, what was it 74 people who were shop workers?

60032 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, 2, #790 of 1148 🔗

Indeed, and it was Matt Hancock himself who spouted these technically correct but deliberately scary comparisons about a week ago.
The male shopworker death rate per 100k male working age population was 34.2, which was 175% of the overall male rate of 19; the killer fact he failed to tell you was that the total of male shopworker deaths over the whole period was – 43! (Sadly neither 42 nor even 33.. .) Females 15.7, 162% of overall rate 9.7; total deaths =64.

60100 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bruno, 1, #791 of 1148 🔗

Thanks to you and Matt for the recap. If the MP has been whipped to spout about low numbers perhaps they might be interested to correspond about the higher numbers of deaths above the 5 year average and the c19 deaths. Pointless trying.

59965 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Two-Six, 10, #792 of 1148 🔗

the extraordinary circustances we find ourselves in ” They indeed extraordinary, but not in the way she means

59991 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #793 of 1148 🔗

Please will you send a copy to UK Column. They are monitoring boilerplate answers. Ta.


60320 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #794 of 1148 🔗

yes, probably

60000 ▶▶ anon, replying to Two-Six, 2, #795 of 1148 🔗

“allow the re-opening of the economy”

that says it all really wow

60057 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to anon, #796 of 1148 🔗

Well it won’t. Do you think they’ll notice?

60097 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Two-Six, 8, #797 of 1148 🔗

Hi Two-Six,
Here’s my reply to my MP who gave me the same boiler-plate ‘shop staff at risk’ stats:

“Thank you for your prompt reply.

I have now had an opportunity to review the source of the statistics you quote. The data is wholly inadequate to justify a policy which, quite literally, changes the face of the people in whose interests you govern. The data is being used (I may say abused) to justify a policy decision that has already been taken.

  • The ONS study looked at deaths among men and women of working age (20-64 years old) up to 25 May. That does not equate to a death at work or a death caused by working conditions **.
  • The ‘excess death’ ratios you quote (75% for men and 60% for women) are a comparison with deaths among the whole population, most of whom were workers who were confined to their homes during the period under review or people who are not in employment. A comparison with all those who were out and about, working, would give radically different statistics.
  • The absolute numbers of deaths among workers in the ‘sales and retail assistants’ sector are small – 43 men and 64 women, among a total of 4,761 deaths in the ONS study.
  • When compared with the other occupations in the survey, the deaths of both men and women in the sector appear to be not far off average, if I interpret the graphs in the report correctly.
  • In terms of deaths per 100,000, male sales and retail assistants came behind (for example) ‘bookkeepers, payroll managers and wages clerks’.
  • Female sales and retail assistants came behind ‘National Government administrators’.
  • Yet I hear no call for bookkeepers and administrators to be specially protected.

** The report says in its summary:
“our findings do not prove conclusively that the observed rates of death involving COVID-19 are necessarily caused by differences in occupational exposure.”

Now, compare this to the evidence of my own eyes. I have been to various supermarkets locally during lockdown; the staff have not been wearing masks (if they felt that they were in a dangerous workplace they would surely have done so). Almost without exception, they have told me that none of their colleagues have caught the virus. They have been cheerful, not fearful; it was some of the shoppers who were fearful, after a relentless diet of uncontextualized data provided by the government and media.

I would urge you to reconsider the decision to enforce mask-wearing – there is yet time to recognise the mistake.
Yours sincerely,”

60133 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to BTLnewbie, #798 of 1148 🔗

Well played sir! (Or madam). Straight bat.

60181 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Bruno, #799 of 1148 🔗

Definitely a ‘sir’, last time I checked

60167 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to BTLnewbie, #800 of 1148 🔗

Excellent reply – will be interesting to see if they reply to your 2nd letter!

60321 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BTLnewbie, #801 of 1148 🔗

Nice, thanks
Copied to clip board

60182 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, #802 of 1148 🔗

Sounds like your MP is using some sort of template.

59932 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 22, #803 of 1148 🔗

Section 4a Public Order sates

A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—
uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.

It would appear that Mrs Dick is inciting people to commit a criminal offence

Incitement to commit an offence is of itself an offence

59949 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 2, #804 of 1148 🔗

Worth copying that down and keeping ut with you. Have the law on the buggers.

59971 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, #805 of 1148 🔗

My concern about that is that they would look less favourably on a non-mask wearer. They’d probably go “it’s your own fault for not wearing a mask”.

60056 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 2, #806 of 1148 🔗

Or fir beung a Jew, or black, or…

59952 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cecil B, #807 of 1148 🔗

Yes. And who better knows about that than the Police, better contact th… oh wait.

60078 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to Cecil B, 3, #808 of 1148 🔗

For the life of me I can’t understand why people like Simon Dolan who can afford it don’ t chase every one of these people through the courts on these issues.

If I could afford it I would be a cross between rumpole of the bailey and victor meldrew on speed hauling these scum up.

59939 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #809 of 1148 🔗

Some good news for a lot of people – though no details yet about what obstacles will be to circumnavigate:

The families and friends of some care home residents in England will once again be able to visit their loved ones , the Government has confirmed, ….

…. the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) has finally issued long-awaited guidance detailing how visits can resume, once local directors of public health and local authorities decide it is safe to do so. Risk assessments will be completed prior to homes being reopened, and visits that take place will involve face coverings and social distancing measures. Visits should also be limited to a “single constant visitor” per resident where possible.
“We are now able to carefully and safely allow visits to care homes, which will be based on local knowledge and circumstances for each care home,” said Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary.
“It is really important that we don’t undo all of the hard work of care homes over the last few months while ensuring families and friends can be safely reunited, so we have put in place guidance that protects everyone.”

From the Torygraph live

60165 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #810 of 1148 🔗

The only reason they are allowing this small concession is because of Simon Dolan’s court case… Every rule must now have a little ‘out’ (ie minor relaxation) clause in it, so as to undermine and invalidate his challenges.. Like with the schools, that because some schools allowed small numbers of pupils to attend, the government claimed that ‘schools were not closed’…

59955 ianric, replying to ianric, 19, #811 of 1148 🔗

There is one thing I find odd considering we are supposed to be in the middle of a deadly pandemic. I would think that if large numbers were dying or so ill they couldn’t go to work, society would suffer as workers would be lost eg food deliveries not getting through due to a lack of drivers, power plants not being able to operate due to losing key workers. I have seen no evidence at all of labour shortages being created due to a pandemic and services not being able to function.

59961 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to ianric, 4, #812 of 1148 🔗

This is one of the key “tells” that to date there has not been a pandemic at all. I am certain that things will be very different in the “second wave”.

59988 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard O, 2, #813 of 1148 🔗

Uncle Bill certainly thinks so!

59977 ▶▶ matt, replying to ianric, 3, #814 of 1148 🔗

There was a total breakdown in any kind of normal service at the beginning – delivery times stretched, basic items unavailable. Terrible drop in service levels for… everything. But that had more to do in reality with companies failing to adjust rapidly to a sudden shock than anything else. It certainly made it feel like an apocalypse though.

60003 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to matt, 1, #815 of 1148 🔗

Yes that was just panic buying but it did set the mood rather. Just after that were stories of more doom as delivery drivers and tube drivers were dropping like flies…!

But of course all total BS

60010 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to ianric, 4, #816 of 1148 🔗

The other big tell is the enthusiasm with which the politicians, media, and so-called scientists greeted the huge crowds of protesters who were not anti-social distancing or all wearing masks because a man in another country died, probably as a result of a heart attack brought on by the drugs he’d taken.
All the advice they’d been bombarding the public with went out the window for this politically fashionable cause.

60163 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, #817 of 1148 🔗

…And that the likes of Bill Gates and others of his age group (the supposedly at risk group) have been happily out and about, not seeming worried about getting the virus…

60011 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to ianric, 1, #818 of 1148 🔗

Already posted here this morning via a link to the scientific journal Aurora. Someone with the time and appropriate skills would be able to compare it with the LSE Centre for Economic Performance occasional paper 49, published in April, which examined (also based on QALYs but refined into WELLBYs!) the optimum date for ending lockdown. As I recall it was 1 June 2020.

60142 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, #819 of 1148 🔗

This was meant to be in response to Swedenborg’s post of the Imperial article below, fat fingers I’m afraid!

59962 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #820 of 1148 🔗

Got to give them credit for determination!

The head of the UK Vaccine Taskforce, Kate Bingham, has suggested that a coronavirus vaccine may be rolled out even before it has full authorisation from regulators . Frontline workers, the over-50s, under-50s with co-morbidities and black, Asian, minority ethinic groups are likely to be prioritised when allocating vaccine supplies, she added.

From Torygraph live

59967 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #821 of 1148 🔗


59975 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Two-Six, 15, #822 of 1148 🔗

Speak for yourself – I’m over 50! I will take one for the team though and donate my dose to any politician, journalist or scientific or medical expert who has played a part in this evil madness. They can have my dose every year.

59987 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 4, #823 of 1148 🔗

Mine too – and the 6-month boosters.

59989 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Julian, 10, #824 of 1148 🔗

Me too (front line worker over 50). I would like to sacrifice myself and donate my dose to Bill Gates, Fauci or Ferguson.

60008 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Laura Suckling, 7, #825 of 1148 🔗

And Boris can have mine!

60016 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Julian, 7, #826 of 1148 🔗

I think we should also insist upon a politician being present at each vaccination round of say 50 people, and then swap the syringes randomly, so that he/she doesn’t have a chance to get the placebo intended to be given to him/her…

60092 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #827 of 1148 🔗

Very very good idea !

60075 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Julian, 1, #828 of 1148 🔗

We can hunt them down and give them all our doses.
At the same time.
Surely they’d appreciated the 20000th dose

59994 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #829 of 1148 🔗

Is that illegal to use unauthorised products in a medical setting?

60014 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Cheezilla, #830 of 1148 🔗

I’ve been offered the flu jab every year for about…5, 6 years now. And I always refuse. Obviously I don’t want to jinx it but I rarely get unwell on top of the ongoing condition I have + have never had flu. The last time I was really ill was when I had bronchitis (extremely unpleasant!) a few years back, maybe 2015, 2016ish. The germs were so bad that we all got ill (but with different things, like my step brother got pharyngitis)

Touch wood and all that!

60070 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, #831 of 1148 🔗

That’s not going to encourage the uptake. What is Plan B, forcibly remove us from our homes, or get a warrant to enter with vial ready to jab the upper arm? Making it mandatory seems inconceivable if it has not gained regulatory approval. I am not sure the Hon Kate has thought this through unless she has been speaking to her father (Lord Bingham) beyond the grave.

60089 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #832 of 1148 🔗

Moves do seem to be trending slightly towards enforcement certainly reworking access to homes. I cannot do the subject justice but was covered in ukcolumn today perhaps second half. Ireland and Netherlands at the fore front.

60144 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 1, #833 of 1148 🔗

Good luck in the country areas in Ireland with that!

60161 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #834 of 1148 🔗

Isn’t there a clause in the act that allows them to forcibly remove you if you are suspected of having the virus and to force treatment on you? They can just make up something to justify their suspicion that you have it and bingo! They arrest you…

60074 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Cheezilla, #835 of 1148 🔗

Great, so when the BAME drop like flies because it’s not tested correctly will BLM chant bad Blessed NHS or will they thank and salute those needless deaths?

59963 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 26, #836 of 1148 🔗


This is the article about the costs of the lockdown and the costs with them to continue. One of the most shocking documents I’ve seen and impossible if they are not in the hands of the government and the SAGE committee. I have quoted below but the whole article is worth reading. The whole NHS is built upon quality of life adjusted years and it should not cost more than £ 30,000 per year. Cancer treatment, hepatitis C treatment etc everything has that price tag. This is evidence based public health medicine. Astonishing that these calculations were not in the decision-making process early on in the lock down process. Even in the ludicrous scenario of 500 000 deaths ( Ferguson’s model) which should be avoided with lockdown is not even cost effective according to NICE guidelines.
The conclusions are obvious. We must immediately end all restrictions. We cannot afford to save Covid-19 lives which in the best scenario costing 7 times more (worst scenario 125 times more) for each case than other diseases like cancer. It is a national catastrophe to continue with prioritising Covid-19 against everything else.

“The guidelines in the UK set out by NICE are that treatments that are expected to increase life expectancy for a patient by one year (in quality of life adjusted years, QALYs) should cost no more than £30,000. We apply that figure to possible total numbers of QALYs saved by restrictions to estimate their benefit.”
“Even if lives saved are as high as 440,000, each of which means an extra 10 years of quality-adjusted life – and when the lost output (assumed to be a sufficient and comprehensive measure of all costs of the lockdown) is simply the likely shortfall in incomes in 2020 – costs are still over 50% higher than benefits of lockdown (benefits = £132 billion; costs = £200 billion).”
“This result reflects the fact that the economic costs of the lockdown – even on the most conservative estimate of £200 billion – is far larger than annual total expenditure on the UK national health service (which runs at around £130 billion); the benefits of that level of resources applied to health and using the NICE guidelines would be expected to generate far more lives saved than is plausibly attributable to the lockdown in the UK.”
Application to potential future scenarios showed in the best case a QALY value of£220k (7xNICE guideline) and in the worst-case£3.7m (125xNICE guideline) was needed to justify the continuation of the lockdown. The evidence suggests that the costs of continuing severe restrictions in the UK are so great relative to likely benefits in numbers of lives saved so that a substantial easing in restrictions is now warranted”
“The lockdown is a public health policy and we have valued its impact using the tools that guide health care decision in the UK public health system. On that basis, and taking a wide range of scenarios of costs and benefits of severe restrictions, we find the lockdown consistently generates costs that are greater – and often dramatically greater – than likely benefits.”

59982 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 5, #837 of 1148 🔗

Thanks for this.

It is truly shocking that this was not done at the time, and has not been done since, and that no-one even seems to have noticed that it wasn’t done, present company excepted.

One of the contributors is from Imperial College!

59984 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to swedenborg, 3, #838 of 1148 🔗

Even if the Government and SAGE have not seen the article, which I severely doubt, it is difficult to imagine it was not circulated around the Treasury and the Bank of England, given that David Miles was a former member of the Monetary Policy Committee.

59985 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 2, #839 of 1148 🔗

If anyone is on Twitter perhaps they could alert Simon Dolan and Peter Hitchens to this

60009 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, 8, #840 of 1148 🔗

I had that discussion in April already.
The discussions/reactions were:
1. You can’t put a price on life.
Yes we can/already do/must.
No, you’re into euthanasia.
2. The cost of each Covid death is 100million currently, that money is going to be amiss for chemos&surgeries soon.
You must think about the millions saved from death.
Well, even if that was close, it’s still out if whack.

Conclusion, as always:
You can’t reason with fanatics.

59993 matt, replying to matt, 58, #841 of 1148 🔗

In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is a pariah.

I’m having a dark, dark day today. A nifty little blend of high anxiety, high fury and deep misery. Partly a result of the approach of fucktard Friday, partly brought on by a conversation with my mother, who called last night. She thinks I should stop being silly and just wear a mask “you’ll get fined!” oh and while we’re at it, she thinks I should get my sons used to wearing them as well. They’re 6 and 8. She’s a doctor and doesn’t believe any of the crap any more than I do, or anyone else here does. Depressing. Infuriating. Between that and the recently discovered fact that my brother in law is a mask-warrior on facebook, I’m fairly sure I can’t go home for Christmas (he, along with my sister, lives with my mother) assuming Johnson doesn’t become the second British leader in history to cancel the bloody thing anyway.

Went to the shops. Was virtually the only person in M&S not wearing a mask who didn’t actually work there. Have you noticed how little of a crap maskless shop workers give for social distancing? Anyone would think that they didn’t realise they were dropping like flies. Greengrocer, butcher fine, but my morale was too low to have the conversation with them about the fact I won’t be wearing a mask next time I go.

What’s the point in “keeping everyone safe” when we’ve taken everything out of life that made it worth living, anyway?

60002 ▶▶ IanE, replying to matt, 15, #842 of 1148 🔗

Yes, quite, I am having much the same feelings – added to by a pathetic email reply from my MP, leaving me incandescent. No wonder our MPs are so against American gun ownership!

60090 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, #843 of 1148 🔗

Err, our Declaration of Rights came first, Ian, and was quite clear re firearms.

(Unless one is a Roman Catholic, I guess. 🙂 ).

60007 ▶▶ Edna, replying to matt, 8, #844 of 1148 🔗

So sorry to hear about your dark day Matt. I wish I could think of something uplifting and encouraging to write, but I’m feeling pretty much the same way. The closer we get to Friday, the more my mood blackens.

60052 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Edna, 14, #845 of 1148 🔗

The closer I come the more violent I feel. Never felt like this in my life

60072 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella, 7, #846 of 1148 🔗

Well you are certainly not alone in that!

60096 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella, 3, #847 of 1148 🔗

I’m self-medicating as fast as I can; St. Austell Tribute pale ale at the moment.

60104 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella, 26, #848 of 1148 🔗

Got really angry at work today at the lack of anger in others. No-one seems in the slightest bit bothered about this: they’re just burying their heads in the sand, putting on their ridiculous bloody face sanitary towels and shrugging “well, what can you do?” And I feel like yelling “rise up against it, that’s what you do”

60136 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to kh1485, 12, #849 of 1148 🔗

“Well, you can’t do anything about it, so it’s not worth getting worked up about”

If that’s true, when is _anything_, _ever_ going to be worth getting worked up about?

Makes me want to strangle people.

60189 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to matt, 10, #850 of 1148 🔗


Just broke my self-imposed Waitrose embargo and it really was like The Night of the Living Dead in there. No human interaction, no smiling, just supine adherence to the mask crap.

This blob-like subservience is really hacking me off. I mean do these people really want their lives risk-assessed to the nth degree. I don’t. What a miserable bloody existence they seem to want.

60209 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to kh1485, 5, #851 of 1148 🔗

I used to work in an office where we had the top floor (8th) of a glass and steel tower and also a mezzanine above it. The office was arranged around an atrium, which went down to the first floor. Glass walls floor-to-ceiling around the atrium. You could have thrown yourself with all your weight against that glass and the worst that would have happened to you would have been a bruised shoulder and a bit of explaining to do. It was amazing how many people – even years after moving into the office – would tell you how scared they were about walking round those glass walls.

There was a steel spiral staircase up from the main floor to the mezzanine. You were out “in the open” in the atrium, but the bannister rails on the landing and on the staircase were chest-height. You could do yourself a nasty injury, or worse, but you would have to climb up the rails an hurl yourself off. There was no way (deliberately, of course) that anything could ever possibly happen by accident. Many, many people would flat refuse to go to the mezzanine because they were too scared.

That’s what we’re dealing with, folks. Compliance, born of fear, against the obvious evidence.

But to cheer us all up:

60250 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to matt, 4, #852 of 1148 🔗

Yes exactly. If something is right, if it is the morally right thing to do, getting “worked up” is a duty.
I take some comfort in knowing that this is a moral issue, and whatever happens I know I did my best and didnt just do the easy thing. There must be a limit to what our government can do to us. It is morally wrong to withdraw healthcare, isolate children and all the other incredible things that have happened.

60284 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to James007, 2, #853 of 1148 🔗

It’s my internal monologue too and it’s what picks me back up (slowly, sometimes). Resisting this – loudly or silently – is morally the right thing to do. It’s a duty and if I back out, I won’t be able to look at myself in the mirror in the future.

I’m no Jack Churchill (I’d get arrested if I walked around with a longbow and a claymore, with or without a facemask) but at least I can do this.

60232 ▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to kh1485, 7, #854 of 1148 🔗

This is what bothers me the most too. Why is everyone so accepting of all this godawful nonsense? Don’t they see they’re collaborating with criminal lies? Surely we all have a moral duty to resist.

60214 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Bella, 12, #855 of 1148 🔗

I felt so angry with the human race today I was at the point of almost needing to be physically restrained from going up to mask wearers and giving them my full wrath.I just cannot take anymore of this,I feel like I’ve been abandoned on the wrong planet.

60039 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 20, #856 of 1148 🔗

I went to the local M&S today, and had one of my usual minor strops, to which I claim entitlement as a long-suffering shareholder! Today it was due to the over-the-counter Anadin Extra tablets causing the scanning machine to beep loudly for attention of a supervisor. Why does the shop sell OTC medications if they require the intervention of a member of staff at the self-service till? She shrugged. Last week, standing in a long queue with a full trolley, I spotted the store manager, so shouted to him ‘you need to get some of the other checkouts working, can you get one of those three stood chatting to each other to open one up?’. The accent probably makes them feel either scared or embarrassed, but always works a treat – two of the three sent to open checkouts! [I should say I was on the British Airways difficult customer list in the 90s when I still worked. It stemmed from my insistence that I would not check hand baggage that I deemed within the size limits – I carried a tape measure – unless the nice American businessmen on the connector flights had their oversized hand luggage removed first]. I was probably the first Karen!

I hope this rant has given you a bit of a laugh – chin up!

60085 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #857 of 1148 🔗

as a long-suffering shareholder!’

Me too. Haven’t dared to look at the price since early March.

They’d better not deny me entry after what I’ve already endured at their hands. I think they’ve said they won’t challenge anyone though.

To most posters above – don’t worry, in a few weeks time you’ll look back on this time as great days.

60121 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, 2, #858 of 1148 🔗

I bought in the anticipation that someone would put the then management out of its misery. Then along came a knight in shining armour in the shape of Archie Norman – still waiting Archie! It’s 96p, by the way!

In my local M&S not a single member of staff has had the virus, according to the manager. Very few masks – let’s see how it looks on Friday when I stock up on my breakfast pastries.

60143 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #859 of 1148 🔗

96p – I didn’t want to know! I paid about £4. (So what do I know about anything …).

Seriously, I haven’t dared look, especially as I was one of the chumps who bought into the rights issue.

Down here in deepest Devon hardly anyone at all, let alone in M&S, has had the bug – except for the vast swathes of us here who had it just after Christmas. The TJN family picked it up in Exeter services, Saturday before Christmas, and started coming down with it Boxing Day. Of course, we hadn’t heard of covid back then. Couldn’t taste food from about Boxing Day on, till about the second week of January.

60176 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, 2, #860 of 1148 🔗

Great minds and all – my in cost is £4 too!

60123 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to TJN, #861 of 1148 🔗

Or we’ll be in far worse captivity

60145 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bella, 6, #862 of 1148 🔗

My guess is that Johnson has overplayed his hand, and that this won’t stick.

60147 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to TJN, 3, #863 of 1148 🔗

I hope so but given how much he’s gotten away with, what won’t anymore?

60373 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to DRW, 1, #864 of 1148 🔗

He’s a fraud and will be found out.

60140 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #865 of 1148 🔗

It did give me a bit of a laugh. And then I remembered that I haven’t a hope of keeping my status with BA this year and that made me sad again.

60183 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, #866 of 1148 🔗

Surely status will be frozen?

60203 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #867 of 1148 🔗

Not that they’ve let me know so far.

60296 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #868 of 1148 🔗

kindred spirits TT! I hate seeing shop staff hanging around while queues for payment tills! Go girl!

60086 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 5, #869 of 1148 🔗

Sorry to hear that matt. At least your mum doesn’t believe any of it. But as a doctor, she surely knows masks are not good for anyone, never mind children ?

I’d be telling my mum (or daughter) to do one if they ever suggested masking my grandkids though.

Tomorrow is another day !

60095 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to matt, 12, #870 of 1148 🔗

Trying to think of ways to put a positive spin on masks, at least we won’t be able to see their gaping mouths when they point at us!

60217 ▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, 3, #871 of 1148 🔗

Your mother is an intelligent doctor who knows it’s all crap but is living apparently peacefully with your sister and her zealous husband. She deserves a medal. Don’t fall out with your family over this. Religious tolerance is a good thing although it can be hard sometimes. Absolutely fundamental to a free and civilized world is for people to be able to disagree and stay friends so it’s important to make the effort to make that work.

60230 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 7, #872 of 1148 🔗

While I realise you’re right in principle, he’s an aggressive, loud mouthed wanker, with an inferiority complex and verbal diarrhea and I don’t trust myself to keep my lip buttoned.

60349 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, 2, #873 of 1148 🔗

Bet you love him really. 🙂 🙂

60348 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, #874 of 1148 🔗

Where such codes hold sway, guy, people should not advocate a course of action that is harmful to one’s children.

60240 ▶▶ James007, replying to matt, 2, #875 of 1148 🔗

I completely understand the feelings you describe. I feel a sense of loss too. The country isn’t quite the country I thought it was. Somehow without me noticing, we have become scared of living. No longer up to fighting, for preserving rights, striving, taking risks and living. Rather showing our virtue by “staying safe” in our individual houses, avoiding colleagues and neighbours.
Feel depressed about it.

60354 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to James007, 1, #876 of 1148 🔗

It can be unsettling. But I think it is more a case of how powerful today’s mind control techniques are. Needs a quite unusual personality type to resist, especially if one still watches the tv and/or reads the papers.

Thanks all for this place ! 🙂

59999 Biker, 2, #877 of 1148 🔗

My old Nanny used to say at times like these “what’s for you will not go by you”. Something to bare in mind when you’re looking out from behind a mask.

60019 Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #878 of 1148 🔗

Just read an article by Grant Shapps.The Government will be looking to make face coverings mandatory in other enclosed spaces.Time for the tumbrils

60027 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #879 of 1148 🔗

You beat me to it. Headline: ‘UK coronavirus death toll in hospitals rises by 11’ – Bedwetters run out for extra masks. Story: The number of people who have died in hospital with coronavirus has risen by 11 – one of the lowest daily jumps to date . Bedwetters don’t read this far..

As Jonathan says, Grant Shat doesn’t say “shops”, but “enclosed public spaces”
Statutory Instruments coming on Friday and Saturday…

60109 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #880 of 1148 🔗

If Grant Shapps backs it – you *know* it’s a moronic idea.

60117 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #881 of 1148 🔗

At least you know that they’re desperately busting a gut when the spun story is so thin.

60141 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #882 of 1148 🔗

…once MPs are safely away on their summer recess of course..

60029 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #883 of 1148 🔗

Totalitarian tip toe. It is aliteratively apt. But of course, it ‘makes sense’ because we already do in shops. Without action by us the people masks are here for a long time.

60038 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 15, #884 of 1148 🔗

The grinnning fucking weasel isn’t wearing a muzzle in the vid – he’s at home. But if you are so gung ho, why not set an example??

And why do they always go on about ‘Pret’? I haven’t got one of those, I don’t fucking live in London! I live with the other 87% of the population that live in the real world.


60046 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 6, #885 of 1148 🔗

It will be outdoors soon enough if Spain,France are a guide.It is obvious that governments worldwide are following a script.The important thing is who and why.

60048 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 7, #886 of 1148 🔗

The important thing is what do we do about it?

60054 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bella, 6, #887 of 1148 🔗

If someone has an idea then I’m all ears

60076 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #888 of 1148 🔗

I look back to the pre iraq days. Millions on the streets. With this current situation we can each simply protest by not complying. This is a big advantage the way I see things. The Robin Cook as mentioned by TT needs to be assured there is support for dissent in the cabinet. There is no Robin Cook in the cabinet, they don’t make mistakes like allowing that twice. This is a disadvantage.

60047 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Basics, 13, #889 of 1148 🔗

Time to rise up if you don’t want this for the rest of your lives. There is no rationale for masks everywhere, none at all

60101 ▶▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Bella, 6, #890 of 1148 🔗

Jeezus F Christ. are they trying to restart the economy through the sale of masks? there can be no other explanation

60033 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 7, #891 of 1148 🔗

Which will eventually include inside our homes. I have used the following phrase to colleagues over the last few days: “You will be wearing a mask everywhere for the rest of your miserable life.” The reaction has been mixed.

60051 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Richard O, 4, #892 of 1148 🔗

Agreed.They test the waters.Then move onto the next absurdity/atrocity

60077 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Richard O, #893 of 1148 🔗

Inside homes is being mooted in Ireland, Netherlands too.

60105 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 6, #894 of 1148 🔗

I heard a lot of politicians liked wearing masks at home. Different type mind

60139 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Richard O, 1, #895 of 1148 🔗

Actually I think at that point people might actually wake up to what is going on…

60137 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #896 of 1148 🔗

…despite them saying only about a week ago that it would NOT be mandatory in workplaces. Hmmm, bet MPs in the House of Commons will be exempted on some spurious grounds…

60166 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, 2, #897 of 1148 🔗

The confusion is deliberate.A totalitarian technique to demoralise any opposition

60030 Biker, replying to Biker, 3, #898 of 1148 🔗

As my old Gamekeeper used to say, “in times like these never use a Shotgun to shoot a Quail”.

60063 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Biker, 2, #899 of 1148 🔗

Shotgun – no indeed: a bazooka would work much better (or perhaps a small nuke aimed at Westminster?)!

60036 stefarm, 4, #900 of 1148 🔗

Been having some emails with the son of the family who own apartments in the Istrian part of Croatia where we have been staying for the past 7 holidays.

All pretty normal for them but they had a pretty severe lockdown with borders closed. Approximately 120 deaths all over 80 with underlying health conditions. Borders now open so there has been an increase in positive cases, still no further deaths.

Anyhoo, I asked him about the recent country elections.

He said there was a 50% turnout, my reply, funny that during a planned pandemic with the country locked down. Biker was right, lots of things going on in the background.


60053 RyanM, 5, #901 of 1148 🔗

The most depressing thing to me right now – even more than masks in schools (we have already pulled our kids out and are going to homeschool) – is that the once great National Review is in full panic mode, ignoring all but the most twisted worst-case-scenario interpretations of everything it sees. Toby, I said it before and I’ll say it again. I know you have connections. Get over there and slap some of those pathetic dipshits around, will you? How about a nice long article? Please?

60055 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 17, #902 of 1148 🔗

The Government’s insane over-reaction virus has me afraid to go out of the house. Yeah, I am afraid I will punch some fucker.
Enough… Enough now.

60082 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #903 of 1148 🔗

Me too. And I used to be ‘no violence at any cost’. It’s got that bad

60058 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 4, #904 of 1148 🔗

You guys surely remember that advertisement … I think it came from your side of the pond … that featured the heads of “climate skeptics” exploding, basically promoting violence toward “deniers?” I thought “think God I live in the USA.”

Now it seems like you’ve got all the skeptics and we’ve got all the bed-wetters. Or maybe this site misrepresents the numbers a bit…

60062 ▶▶ IanE, replying to RyanM, 1, #905 of 1148 🔗

Oh yes, I remember the truly funny one that showed the fate of very young school pupils who did not worship at the altar of Gaia. Laugh? Nearly wet myself! [ not ]

60064 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to IanE, 2, #906 of 1148 🔗

p.s. Plenty of bed-wetters over here too, alas.

60065 ▶▶ matt, replying to RyanM, 1, #907 of 1148 🔗

We have plenty of bedwetters here too. It’s a wonder we’re not ankle-deep in urine.

60059 IanE, replying to IanE, 7, #908 of 1148 🔗

And, just when things seem to have reached the very pits of Hell, I see that HMRC is to bring in a new, complex and expensive to administer system for the self-employed, the so-called MTD system (making tax digital). See https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/22/final-proof-hmrc-hates-britains-self-employed/

As Janet Daley observes, HMRC REALLY hates the self-employed!

60071 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to IanE, 2, #909 of 1148 🔗

This has been in operation for a few quarters.

MTD has already made my relatively straight forward VAT return a pain in the ass.

60088 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to IanE, 1, #910 of 1148 🔗

Has been there excuse to lay off approx 50% staff and move the whole department to 8 regional centres meaning there is no local face to face intervention or customer service or experienced staff to check for evasion or genuine errors

60066 Ryan, 15, #911 of 1148 🔗

Out and about update:

Metro bank – no masks, no hand gel, staff ignored plastic partitions, sat next to a bloke waiting for appointment and neither us nor anybody else said anything. All normal, normal, normal. Apart from some looney who came in with a face visor, mask and gloves. She did get a few stares. Sanity is out there. But then so is total fuckwittery.

Decide on a few cheeky wee aperitifs as the sun was fair taking it out me. Local boozer in Ealing. All a ok normal apart from signing in as Billy Bunter at the bar. New northern lass behind bar admitted she was fed up with the nonsense and said some folk are just stupid.

Stupid is as stupid does on the bus however.

Lazy me decided to jump on a bus for two stops rather than walk home as it was sitting there. Two folk saw me maskless and moved upstairs, ‘social distance mate’ said they young fella as he was dragged upstairs by his misses.

‘ Aye, whatever’ was my less than witty retort.

Bring on Friday.

60068 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 7, #912 of 1148 🔗

“Britons should abandon handshakes and adopt Japanese-style greetings to prevent future pandemics, a professor at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine says .”

“Professor Dame Anne Johnson, the vice president of the Academy of Medical Science, said a cultural shift was needed to stop a second wave emerging in the winter and suggested that even people with colds or flu would need to stay at home”

Professor of what exactly? Can you believe that they made this idiot a DAME!!!!

60073 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to T. Prince, 2, #913 of 1148 🔗

How exactly does she think the virus get aerosolised from the hands? :pmsl:

The sad thing is that decades of ‘flu research are being thrown out of the window just for the sake of some attempting to make a name for themselves…

60135 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to IMoz, 2, #914 of 1148 🔗

“attempting to make a name for themselves” whilst making the rest of us look like a bunch of masked morons! Does anyone else think like me that we’re just part of some weird experiment?…

60146 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to T. Prince, 3, #915 of 1148 🔗

I think it’s a fair point to make. It’s widely accepted you do not trust a politician ever. Yet here is one talking with all the confidence given to him by mask compliance. People have forgotten not to trust politicians. Perhaps reminding people of that fundamental life priniciple can do some good.

60168 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to T. Prince, 4, #916 of 1148 🔗

I already said yesterday that this whole COVID-19 “experience” feels like a giant Milgram experiment in obedience 😉

Someone else commented that the Stanford prison experiment could be applicable too, and I said while I was dismissive of that initially, the megalomania of rule setters was starting to draw analogies… I went and re-read the study, and guess what, in the prison experiment, they did cover the faces of “prisoners” to make them more de-individualised and more like a herd to be controlled! Literally, can’t make it up!

60081 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to T. Prince, 2, #917 of 1148 🔗

Pantomine dame

60087 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to T. Prince, 8, #918 of 1148 🔗

Never ‘elbow bumped’ and never will – fucking ridiculous!!!

60115 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #919 of 1148 🔗

Agree and same applies to elbow cough (remember that?). Both of which are signs the public can resist if they choose.

60156 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Basics, 4, #920 of 1148 🔗

I will definitely resist. Not going to comply. I live in sunny Cardiff, muzzles on public transport (27.07.20), I use the bus most days. I will not be wearing a muzzle and I will only show my ‘exemption badge’ if necessary. Have lived in Cardiff for 20 years or so, the bus drivers are a great bunch. I don’t want to make life difficult for them and I won’t, but I will never wear a mask.

60118 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #921 of 1148 🔗

Makes for some awkward situations as you extend your hand.ends up like Rock Paper Scissors

60131 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Kath Andrews, 8, #922 of 1148 🔗

And this is what’s ‘doin’ my f*cking head in’. What makes anyone, anyone think that we should listen to these utter morons on how we should lead a normal life.If human beings weren’t meant to come into contact with any ‘bugs’, wouldn’t we have evolved to have face flaps? And I didn’t even need to be a professor to work that one out!

60184 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to T. Prince, 2, #923 of 1148 🔗

I’m just going to carry on as normal (wish me luck!). I’m hoping that people – bus drivers et al – will apply common sense as it were. I am a bit apprehensive about my first bus encounter as a no muzzle wearing traveller – but here go I. Shall keep you posted, the bus drivers of Cardiff are as sound has hell….quietly optimistic……….

60313 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #924 of 1148 🔗

Best of luck, let us know how you get on!

60108 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to T. Prince, 6, #925 of 1148 🔗

I think the Dame might be a touch light on her knowledge of Japan and the Japanese. My Japanese friends, who to be fair I have not seen for a few years now, greeted me with a hug. I worked for a Japanese firm many years ago and we were told never to bow to a Japanese, but to shake hands. I know it is often on TV, but I think she might have watched You Only Live Twice a few too many times!

60126 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #926 of 1148 🔗

Shameless re-post from yesterday:

They can fuck right off. I will grasp the empty weapon hand of my friend when we meet, to show that we bear no ill will to eachother, til the day I die. I am a free Englishman. And yes I know we didn’t invent it.
Thank You. I’ll be here the rest of my life.

60138 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #927 of 1148 🔗

“I think the Dame might be a touch light on her knowledge” and a fair few brain cells….The woman is so obviously deranged….

60150 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to T. Prince, 6, #928 of 1148 🔗

She has an MA from Cambridge in Medical Sciences and specialized in Epidemiology. My degree was in Microbiology. I’m amazed that someone at her level has come out with that crap. We MAY get a second wave but 1) ther’s no guarantee of it (particularly if we’re close to herd immunity), 2) if we do, it’s because SARS-Cov2 is in the system (like all cold and flu viruses) and , of course, may be implicated in the SEASONAL FLU season (!).

How asinine to say ‘even people with colds or flu could need to stay at home’. ANYONE who catches flu is UNABLE to to leave home, it’s NOT NICE! Nasim Taleb has a term for highly educated people like these, IYIs (Intelligent Yet Idiots).


60157 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to DavidC, 1, #929 of 1148 🔗

ANYONE who catches flu is UNABLE to to leave home,

Quite right: if you’ve never had the flu, it’s easy not to realise how bad it is! Ironically, I have always wished people with colds would stay at home and not give it to everyone else. Beware of what you wish for….

Unfortunately this woman is no idiot. See my post, above. I think she knows exactl y what she’s doing. I had no idea that so many scientists were so bloody bent! (Obviously naive).

60330 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #930 of 1148 🔗

Good term, ‘bent’, Miriam. Sums up a lot of the messages and behaviour we’ve seen lately.

60200 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to DavidC, #931 of 1148 🔗

Just a note – if she has an MA from Cambridge, she did an undergraduate degree. You probably already know this, but I wouldn’t want anyone thinking she has an actual masters

60154 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to T. Prince, 3, #932 of 1148 🔗

There seems to be an endless supply of these ‘scientists’ ready to pour out yet more totalitarian bilge when the money is right. UK Column reckons the AMS is a product of the Invisible College who they reckon spawned the Royal Society, current purveyors of bullshit to the ‘Government’. AMS has produced a very sinister document indeed about the ‘second wave’ called Autumn spike: The Academy of Medical Sciences…Preparing for a Challenging Winter 2020/21 https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-22nd-july-2020

Meanwhile, the professor at the LSHTM is this sparkler: https://www.lshtm.ac.uk/aboutus/people/piot.peter Guess who he has ties to? Yes, that’s right, you’ve got it in one! Oh and Imperial College as well.

60187 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to T. Prince, 1, #933 of 1148 🔗

These people should move to Japan and see for themselves the reality of what they’re proposing. They seem to want to make the populace neurotic and psychologically scarred.

And while we’re at it, perhaps she wants to introduce hara-kiri here as well? She can start with herself when this all goes belly up.

60301 ▶▶ Sue, replying to T. Prince, 2, #934 of 1148 🔗

will probably have to give the nazi salute before long! utter shite these so called ‘experts’ – my hamster has more brains than the lot of them.

60332 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sue, #935 of 1148 🔗

I often give nazi salutes when out shopping with my wife …

60080 janis pennance, replying to janis pennance, 36, #936 of 1148 🔗

My little Grandaughter age 6 has stopped eating , she is now scared she will die of Covid , “it’s on the adverts between my programmes, and everyone is wearing masks”

Im beyond angry at what this is doing ….her parents have been so careful to downplay it , it seems there is no escaping

60084 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to janis pennance, 18, #937 of 1148 🔗

I’m so sorry to hear that. So sorry. The psychological damage that this is doing to people is off the scale, but the affect it is having on children is absolutely unforgivable.

60099 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kath Andrews, 3, #938 of 1148 🔗

Parents can mitigate most, if not all, of it.

60134 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Kath Andrews, 6, #939 of 1148 🔗

A young boy around eight years old, walking with his father, gave me a look of disdain as he passed me by this afternoon. Muttered something about a cigarette. There was one in my hand, but it was down by the side of my right leg, almost completely out of view. Intolerance of smokers is being taught in school to children of all ages in Quebec these days and adverts urging children to fear smokers used to be posted inside public buses. Yet the official line of consecutive governments for the past 15 years or so is that Quebec is 100% a tolerant society. It has been plummeting towards zero in the past four months. And counting.

60169 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to richard riewer, 5, #940 of 1148 🔗

This is all about the implementation of fear…We as adults and who haven’t bought in to the bullshit ‘narrative’ will get through this….we bloody have to! But, to inflict this on children makes my blood boil.

60094 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to janis pennance, 2, #941 of 1148 🔗

Was your son/daughter unlucky enough to get one of those televisions without an off switch ?

60111 ▶▶▶ janis pennance, replying to JohnB, 6, #942 of 1148 🔗

Not that easy as they go to relatives and friends houses , plus children talk to each other

60180 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to janis pennance, 3, #943 of 1148 🔗

So sorry to read about this and hope she gets better.
As well as the fear propaganda, it’s also the lockdown itself which has caused mental health problems in children.
Social isolation and being denied school, friends, sports games, play areas etc…
Our son’s austism has got progressively worse and he has become more and more anxious.
Hopefully things will start to improve.

60228 ▶▶▶▶▶ janis pennance, replying to James007, 1, #944 of 1148 🔗

I hope so too , hope your son begins to improve , so difficult to do and say the right things . x

60329 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to janis pennance, #945 of 1148 🔗

Sorry if I sounded too snarky. Lots going on.

But young kids surely don’t visit relatives or friends in the summer to watch tv ? Footie, tree climbing, parks, playgrounds, beaches, zoos, woods, etc ?

Kids talking to each other is normal. Their conversations won’t have visual nasties and NLP-driven nudging shite built in. Semi-distant adult input should ensure a particularly affected one doesn’t upset the others.

The current situation is certainly an additional challenge to parenting – but not an insurmountable one. Imho. 🙂

60110 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to janis pennance, 2, #946 of 1148 🔗

True cost of Lockdown #423.

60158 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to janis pennance, #947 of 1148 🔗

OMG that is so sad…and outrageous that it’s been allowed to happen! what is this country and world coming to! I am so sorry for your grandaughter.

60178 ▶▶ mjr, replying to janis pennance, 6, #948 of 1148 🔗

at least is is a change from being scared she will die because of global warming. ! Not being flippant .. This is just how they indoctrinate the kids.
When i was 6 we were threatened with nuclear war ….. I dont recall ever being made to feel so scared.

60202 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to mjr, 3, #949 of 1148 🔗

When I was six, it was the coming Ice Age. No, not the one that melted 10,000 years ago, before some wag jumps in, lol.

60253 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Nick Rose, #950 of 1148 🔗

Back in the 70s American scientists – yes that lot again – were indeed predicting an ice age.

60113 Ryan, replying to Ryan, 5, #951 of 1148 🔗

Class/group actions.

Has there been any definite decision on whether shops refusing entry or service to non muzzled shoppers being potentially guilty of disabled discrimination if the non muzzled person claims medical grounds?

Is there any reason why a list of shops behaving in this manner can’t be hit with collective claims?

Should this be the focus of attention post Friday?

Is this a viable option?

60124 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Ryan, 2, #952 of 1148 🔗

Yep! Sue them all!

60130 ▶▶▶ Ryan, replying to richard riewer, 3, #953 of 1148 🔗

Collectively I mean.

On an organised, collated, crowd funded basis.

60114 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 17, #954 of 1148 🔗

In the First World War, young men – boys – lied about their age to join up and get killed to defend their country. Could you see yourself doing that now?
But then you wouldn’t need to. We don’t have a country anymore.

60331 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Sam Vimes, #955 of 1148 🔗

I would not die for this cess pit.

60353 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #956 of 1148 🔗

Its often said many signed up to fight with their friends. They fought for each other and for their local areas. To them their ways of life were worth fighting for. At least that is what we are told. I don’t imagine most would have felt the stale mate of the trenches and the over the top lads fighting was a good way to support their nation. Frankly God knows what motivation got them into a frontline trench.

It’s a good point you pose Sam. Each of us might use it to reflect on at which point might you fight for your way of life. Trenches are not going to be dug for us to line up in, posters are not going be pasted saying your country needs you. But our ways of life are under threat. Equal to what the Hun, or the Gerries for that matter, threatened? Some are saying its already a coup.

Do your friends and family deserve the opportunities of normal normal? Have those simple and valuable norms been lost for good or can they be saved by standing up like the boys who did so years ago?

Perhaps the nation isn’t why people fought. Maybe the reason to fight was for the patchworks of peoole who make the nation.

60119 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 8, #957 of 1148 🔗

Things could be worse – just. Unless you live in Washington DC, where things couldn’t get much worse. This from The Telegraph:

The Mayor of Washington DC has announced an executive order that residents must wear mask whenever they leave home.

“Basically what it says is, if you leave home, you should wear a mask,” Muriel Bowser told a press conference.

“This means, if you’re waiting for a bus, you must have on a mask. If you are ordering food at a restaurant, you must have on a mask. If you’re sitting in a cubicle in an open office, you must have on a mask.”

Ms Bowser added “there will be enforcement language in the order,” but didn’t specify what that would entail.

The new order does not apply to children under three or those eating or drinking.

Last night, Donald Trump has urged every American to wear a face mask if they cannot socially distance in a marked change in tone.

Even children aged three and above will have to submit to this outrage!

60280 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Tenchy, 4, #958 of 1148 🔗

Fuck sake this is beyond a joke. Such an effective method, that they never put an end date on it.

60120 richard riewer, #959 of 1148 🔗

This link will take you to a tribute to one of Africa’s least known-undeservedly so-musicians, Philip Tabane:

60122 davews, replying to davews, 12, #960 of 1148 🔗

Been out for a lovely day in London, walking the Lea River and then back to the south bank for a pub lunch. 800 comments on here so I probably won’t be able to catch up.
Trains definitely busier even than last week but enough room for all of us. Masks in full flow there and on the tube and a few to be seen outside as well.

It seems different pubs interpret the COVID guidelines in different ways. I had earmarked the Anchor (Green King) near London Bridge as a sensible place to eat, right by the river and ate there a few months ago. But walking from the tube station I passed The Old Thameside Inn which looked interesting and after peeping at the menu walked up to the door. ‘Can you just scan this QR code please’. ‘Sorry, no mobile phone’.’Sorry, we cannot allow you inside. Everybody has a mobile phone these days’. ‘Well I don’t. Sorry, goodbye’.

On to the Anchor. I saw a similar QR code on the wall. The chap asked if I was able to download their app. Sorry, no mobile phone. Not to worry, he says, here is the menu, just order at the bar down there. And don’t worry about that QR thing. Nice meal, not crowded (in fact almost deserted), and no COVID stuff thrust in your face. Some can do it, others go out of their way to make it impossible.

60129 ▶▶ Ryan, replying to davews, 1, #961 of 1148 🔗

As others have commented, the green folding stuff soon changes opinions and rules.

60185 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to davews, 3, #962 of 1148 🔗

I’ve refused the app, just in for one drink, no problem. I don’t think many pubs can afford to have arsehole staff right now.

60309 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to davews, 1, #963 of 1148 🔗

I have just been into town, for the first time since pubs opened. One thing I noticed, a lot of the mental keep 2m apart signage was gone from the town centre. Especially the things they sprayed on the roads and paths. Perhaps my letter to the BID woman made a difference here…

There were tables in the square outside the spoons and they were busy, people looked happy. Nice to see. A few chaps had trendy scarves at the ready. Looked a bit “piratey”.

I had a kebab and sat in the park to eat it. I had a chat with some people I know and gave one of them a badge.

Then I went to a pub, an unprotected young door bloke was there. So I said how does this work then? Well he said, you need to wait here, until there is a table, inside or outside, we have inside tables only now. So what about the track and trace thing? He said you can write your name in this book, I said I won’t do trhat, OK he said. So what else? We have a one way system, How does that work, (getting fairly amused now) and what about the bogs? You have to wait outside, one in one out, So what if i wanted to walk about inside, well you can, if you don’t have to walk too far he said. We had a bit more of a chat, he was borderline case, could be pushed into a more sceptical position…slightly.

So anyway, I didn’t go, cos I didn’t really want to then but some other time it could be OK.

I then went to see my other favourite pub, a long time local. Two of my mates were in the garden, I haven’t seen them for ages either, they were fairly into it all but a little chat really put the cat amongst the psychological pigeons. I studiously ignored the one way system and the sanitizer and took the piss out of the mental screens around the bar (with little beer flaps). This talking the piss thing really does have potential….Could be a lot of fun.

On my way home I saw an older chap I know and we had a chat, I had been quite worried about him, he could have gone “either way” and been hiding under his bed since March, thankfully he was a borderline sceptic and hadn’t been bothered in the slightest by it all. He had been in regular contact with his family and friends..Phew. Great to see him. He earned his badge!

60345 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 1, #964 of 1148 🔗

And you went home because why? You clearly have a flare for converting – more kebabs and beer the nation needs you to!

60125 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 6, #965 of 1148 🔗

Hi all here is an email I got today from Morrisons. I had offered to show my exemption card as I thought it might make it easier for the staff, who I don’t blame for this crap and I note Hollie has taken me up on it. It isn’t clear how people without a card might go on:

Good Evening Miriam,

Thank you for contacting Morrisons. I fully understand your concern of returning to store but rest assured if you have an exempt card available to show to store staff you can continue to shop as normal.

From the 24th of July, it is mandatory for masks to be worn. However exceptions are given to individuals with disabilities, Children or anyone who has a medial condition preventing them from being able to wear a mask.

Colleague and customer safety remains our priority and we’re continuing to follow all Government advice and Public Health England guidance.

We look forward to seeing you in our stores soon Miriam, Take Care!

Kind regards
Hollie Turner
Customer Service
Wm Morrisons Supermarket Plc
ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

60197 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #966 of 1148 🔗

She doesn’t actually say that people need an exemption card. You’d already told her you have one.

Hopefully they won’t be challenging people, as it would increase anxiety in those with mental problems.

Maybe try to walk in without showing your card and see what the reaction is. You can always produce it if asked.
That’s what I intend to do.

60224 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, #967 of 1148 🔗

Good idea, I’ll try that.

60201 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #968 of 1148 🔗

I do like how they appear to imply that from Friday not wearing a mask would be the opposite of “Colleague and customer safety” unless you are exempt, while prior to that there was no such fear 😉

60226 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to IMoz, 1, #969 of 1148 🔗

Yes, I know what you mean. It doesn’t read like the work of someone all that clued up really, I felt it was a form letter, going through the motions.

60127 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 4, #970 of 1148 🔗

Another article I can’t actually read but that title sums up my feelings exactly


60153 ▶▶ matt, replying to kbeanie, 1, #971 of 1148 🔗

The comments are mostly very good too

60164 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to matt, 1, #972 of 1148 🔗

I thought that too. They’re often quite good actually, for the most part

60175 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to kbeanie, #973 of 1148 🔗
60191 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 9, #974 of 1148 🔗

Here’s a good one:

BREAKING: Matt Hancock has announced today that from the eleventy first of August every person will have to wear knickers on their head in all public places.

“We all have to do our bit; I expect total compliance. Its for our own good. All hail the NHS”

In anticipation of a knicker shortage, civil servants have been desperately sourcing knickers from abroad, and have reportedly paid £112 billion for a shipment of knickers from Mozambique, although there are questions as to whether the knickers meet the NHS knicker standards ISO80081355.

Polling reveals that the public thoroughly back the move. When interviewed, a man on the street said, “I’m already wearing a mask so a thong on my pate is no bother at all.’

60148 Ryan, replying to Ryan, 7, #975 of 1148 🔗

From my local London newspapers website:

TfL said:

“Since July 4 we have stopped more than 35,500 people from travelling on buses until they put on a face covering. We have found that people generally want to do the right thing and keep others safe…

“Fixed penalty notices [fines] are a last resort but they are used where necessary – with 127 fines already issued by TfL officers to those refusing to comply.”

Reading this you would think that only 127 people have refused to nappy up.

I see more than 127 on a daily basis.

60159 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ryan, 16, #976 of 1148 🔗

Brits on Facebook sites here in Sweden keep telling me that it’s just a matter of time, we will be forced into wearing masks here as well, but so far it is not looking imminent. This is from today’s ‘Aftonbladet’ newspaper:

‘Recommendations regarding mouth protection on trains are not currently relevant in Sweden, according to state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell. Keeping distance is still the most important measure to keep down the coronavirus infection.

New recommendations from European authorities state that masks should be used in rail traffic if distances of 1.5 meters cannot be maintained. State epidemiologist Anders Tegnell points out that keeping distance is still the most important and best measure to keep the spread of infection down. Masks should only be seen as a complement – something that also the European recommendations make clear.
– We believe that it should be possible to keep distance, especially on long-distance trains, and SJ (Sweden’s national railway company) has also adapted more and more to this, he says.
Uncertain effect
As previously reported, the effect of masks on reducing the spread of infection is very uncertain. The Swedish Public Health Agency continuously monitors the issue and follows up on new studies. But at present it is not relevant to update the recommendations for Swedish trains.
– Especially not now when we have a rapidly declining rate of cases. This is not a situation where you bring in new restrictions, states Anders Tegnell.’

60170 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Carrie, 13, #977 of 1148 🔗

Especially not now when we have a rapidly declining rate of cases. This is not a situation where you bring in new restrictions, states Anders Tegnell.’

Why would anyone listen to a country that’s followed the science?

60274 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Carrie, 7, #978 of 1148 🔗

So envious of the swedes having a logical thinking adult advising the gov, instead of a bunch of panicked hysterical shits.

60188 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Ryan, 25, #979 of 1148 🔗

Am I the only one who now has an aversion to the word “safe”? I hate its monosyllabicity and its childish sound; its supposed message of concern, and the implication that life can be made non-hazardous merely through collective rituals and gestures. Most of all, I hate the people who use it.

60198 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Barney McGrew, 15, #980 of 1148 🔗

The word ‘safe’ can go fuck itself – I am painfully aware that what i just said makes no sense at all………
‘Live life, take risks, don’t watch the BBC’

60199 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #981 of 1148 🔗

No, you’re not. I want LIFE, with all it’s bloody dangers and I’ll make my own assessment of what risks I want to take. I don’t need some wet rag of an MP doing it for me.

60237 ▶▶▶ Steve, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #982 of 1148 🔗

You’re not the only one. When one of the customers I was delivering to to told me to ‘stay safe’, I had to bite my tongue to stop myself making a rude comment…

60279 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #983 of 1148 🔗

I just smile and tell them I’m a BASE jumper. Risk and safe not in my vocabulary. Most have no clue what it is so I explain I throw myself off buildings and cliffs with a parachute! You can see the open mouthed expression even through a muzzle.

60288 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #984 of 1148 🔗

“Stay safe” is a trigger for me, as is “new normal.” I don’t want to stay safe, I want my old life back! We should start telling people to stay safe whenever they get into their cars, cross the road, ride a bicycle, etc. Maybe they’d realize how stupid it is…but probably not.

60149 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #985 of 1148 🔗


 “Scott Gottlieb, Pfizer board member, hits the jackpot. Congrats America, you got played. You can thank the media and high profile pundits for continuing to elevate his Big Pharma propaganda.
“BREAKING: The U.S. enters a pact with Pfizer for 100 million doses of a Covid-19 vaccine which Americans will receive for free
Scott Gottlieb was FDA director until 2019.After that almost daily reporting for CNBC, one of the Covid-19 fearmongers in the US media. Highly respected expert. And that man was in charge of FDA regulating the pharma sector, sits on Pfizer’s board. Any comments from left-wing media about this blatant corruption?

60162 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to swedenborg, #986 of 1148 🔗

To be fair, if he was allocated stock on the day he joined the Pfizer board, he is still wearing a 10% loss even after today’s announcement.

Nice to see revolving doors and regulatory capture are alive and well!


60151 richard riewer, 6, #987 of 1148 🔗

In Quebec the government introduced a 9 meter social distancing rule around five years ago for people puffing on pipes, cigars and other tobacco products near open doors or windows. That is more than four times the current 2 meter rule for Covid-19. I guess that makes secondhand smoke four times more deadly than Covid-19 and everybody should have been wearing masks five years ago.

60152 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 16, #988 of 1148 🔗

Just got back from Aldi, usual weekly shopping time, so I don’t know what it’s like in daytime.

More masks tonight than I’ve seen over the last several weeks combined – usually there are none.

Older customers acting quite normally. All mask wearers were twenties and thirties. Idiots!

On the other hand, I went to the park this afternoon. It was busy. No obvious social distancing and not a mask in sight.

60171 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #989 of 1148 🔗

Same at the Aldi here, earlier in the afternoon. Thoroughly depressing experience. Masks outnumbered non-masks by quite a margin.

60194 ▶▶▶ Rabbit, replying to kh1485, 5, #990 of 1148 🔗

Overall, which supermarket chain looks the most relaxed? Other than online shopping I think I will just try the small local independent shops and see how they react. I am not on Facebook, the wife is though, there are a few local people on the village social group saying they are ready to hurl abuse and shame those without a mask. How depressing how quickly our “evolved” society can so quickly fall back on the same behaviour seen before world war 2.

Had a few drinks at local pub, all seemed relaxed only dissapointment was seeing the deep clean of a garden table after some customers left. Apart from that pubs so far are the sanest places to go so far, at least in my experience, but I can’t go to the pub frequently forever, not great for the waistline or wallet.

60207 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Rabbit, 2, #991 of 1148 🔗

Aldi is the best as far as staff are concerned. They were masked/visored-up today but they remain polite and courteous. Tesco much the same (had a nice chat with a lady on the checkout last week who thinks this is all a load of nonsense) and their staff don’t seem to be as togged-up. And my villain of the whole coronapanic is Waitrose.

60210 ▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to kh1485, 1, #992 of 1148 🔗

Actually I’ve found Waitrose has actually been pretty good, the staff pretending to go along but at checkouts if you actually ask how they feel it’s like a weight is lifted, and they can speak freely.

60219 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #993 of 1148 🔗

You’re lucky. The one here is horrible. Bossy, unpleasant staff – “stand there, can you move away from me” etc. when you’re a few inches off the spacing dot thing.

60254 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Youth_Unheard, #994 of 1148 🔗

Probably a case of trying a few different ones and seeing how it goes.

60225 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 1, #995 of 1148 🔗

Cannot agree with Aldi – most staff are really good. But their door man was a really bad idea by them. Lidl have been good, with statements and in practice. Sainsbury’s too. But quite honestly don’t overthink it. Just get on and prepare for the depressive aspect of it.

60248 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Basics, 2, #996 of 1148 🔗

Thanks, sounds hit and miss depending on the area, possibly store manager. Roll on Friday!

60193 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #997 of 1148 🔗

The ‘virtue signallers’ will get bored – at least I hope they do!!!

60272 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #998 of 1148 🔗

That’s my hope. Masks have a certain amount of novelty value right now. A few weeks of wearing them in high summer and they may lose their appeal even to the fanatics. Then it will be either stay in or rebel.

60333 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cheezilla, #999 of 1148 🔗

There is no hope for the young.

60155 DRW, replying to DRW, 8, #1000 of 1148 🔗

Had an idea today- what if covi-steria splits the West? It’d be a new Iron Curtain: some countries end up virtually normal (probably Nordics) whilst others are still mired in it. Not a serious expectation, just a (hopefully unrealistic) thought.

60179 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to DRW, 2, #1001 of 1148 🔗

Ideas are not allowed in the new normal! Be very careful!

60208 ▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, 2, #1002 of 1148 🔗

Though I have close ties to other European countries, England is the country of my birth and I love it very much, with all its faults. Or should I say I loved it. I don’t love the country we now find ourselves in.

So if there are countries not afflicted with covi-steria, and they are not beyond the pale in other ways, we’ll be off, and will be glad of somewhere to go.

I think maybe a split would be for the best. Do we really want to live like this?

60215 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Julian, 4, #1003 of 1148 🔗


60269 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Julian, 5, #1004 of 1148 🔗

I love this country, its geography, it’s history, its flora and fauna, its art, music and architecture. It’s people? Increasingly less so I am afraid.

60271 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #1005 of 1148 🔗

Sorry about random incorrect apostrophes. I hate autocorrect so much!

60287 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1006 of 1148 🔗

That made me smile!

60286 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #1007 of 1148 🔗

I feel exactly the same way. I used to always give people the benefit of the doubt, I cared about people, was a generous person. Now I can’t tolerate people, I feel not at all generous, give nobody the benefit of the doubt, and actually find myself wishing ill on all of the sheeple who have brought this down upon us. My husband and I consider our family a fortress and are simply out for ourselves and the protection of our kids, and the few family and friends we have that feel similarly about this whole dystopian “normal.”

60317 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #1008 of 1148 🔗

I feel the same way. When someone says “you wear the mask to protect me,” all I can think is “fuck you. You don’t demand that I do anything for you. And stop claiming it’s about life. The only life you care about is your own. Go crawl back under your bed and protect it, just leave me the fuck alone.”

60160 Hubes, 18, #1009 of 1148 🔗

Best way to get around this bullshit from Friday is if you get questioned for not wearing a mask, say you’re exempt. If they ask anymore questions after that or for any proof. Get your phone out and start filming them. Say you want what they are saying on record. Inform them they are breaking the law on two counts 1) asking to see your medical records and 2) discriminating against somebody with a disability.

I very much doubt anybody will want to be recorded refusing you entry to a shop knowing they are breaking those laws.

I also doubt that many shops will actually care. I’ve spoken to a few shops over the last week and they said they won’t be enforcing it. It might vary from branch to branch but the ones who do try and enforce it will very quickly stop when they realise others aren’t and/or they are losing customers.

60172 PWL, #1010 of 1148 🔗

Still no legislation for face coverings in shops on the legislation.gov.uk pages. Looking out for it for follow up to this:
The coronavirus police state (5): the wear-a-mask-to-shop deception
And, an idea for signalling protest
Another T-shirt to wear at the supermarket

60173 swedenborg, 2, #1011 of 1148 🔗


 Video from Lima, Peru .Face shields together with facemasks to be mandatory on public transport

60177 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 33, #1012 of 1148 🔗

The Cressida Dick comments today are beyond disgusting. Her resignation should be immediate and we should all write to request it. I cannot believe someone in her position would encouraging shaming others, it really is a new low. I shall be writing to the Met and encourage others to do the same.

60205 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 5, #1013 of 1148 🔗

Not just the Met. Essex Police also advocating the same …

60220 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 3, #1014 of 1148 🔗

This is slightly different from Scotland. The police making statement to encourage social shaming. Police Scotland as far as I know did not say such a statement – I could be corrected here. Pol Scot did declare they would not be chasing after buses without masks. The Scottish Police trade union DID announce police cannot be asked to attend shops to enforce masks.

My point is the difference may suggest without a nation in love with the first minister compliance is not a done deal. Dick and Essex stepping in to encourage in the absence of respect for political leadership. Time will tell.

60186 DRW, replying to DRW, 1, #1015 of 1148 🔗

Cracking article: People are acting hysterical because they have suffered a collective trauma


60221 ▶▶ matt, replying to DRW, #1016 of 1148 🔗

Very good indeed.

60371 ▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 1, #1017 of 1148 🔗

‘Just because it seems that almost everyone considers what’s happening now normal does not somehow make it normal. ‘

Sums it up. Hold to that.

60190 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #1018 of 1148 🔗

Following on from todays Christmas is on… Hogmanay has now been cancelled.

In a statement on Twitter, the event’s organiser Underbelly said: “As has been reported, exciting and positive discussions are taking place between City of Edinburgh Council and Underbelly in relation to the Hogmanay programme for 2020.

“However, it is clear to all parties that the famous Street Party cannot take place in its current form in 2020 and tickets are today being taken off sale.

“Customers who have booked tickets will be contacted in the next 14 days to be offered a full refund”


With Underbelly at the helm I suggest this episode may have been a tedious publicity stunt.

60195 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 4, #1019 of 1148 🔗

“Exciting and positive discussions”?

Did someone redefine the whole bloody language while I wasn’t looking?

60206 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 3, #1020 of 1148 🔗

I honestly think people are not aware of how bad local government is until they look under the bonnet of edinburgh council. This language oozes out of anything they do.

If it helps, in my opinion that line you picked on says something about these guys having a three (?) year contract to honor and have no appetite to crank up their operation for yet another year of poorly planned stress and seat of pants bluffing. Superlative nonsense often hides internal fractures.

60192 HelzBelz, 22, #1021 of 1148 🔗

Just got time to read the Sunetra Gupta article. Isn’t she just brilliant – saying all of the things that I’m sure we’ve all instinctively known over the last 4 months but she has the scientific expertise and says it all so well. The last para is very telling – how she had her team had ‘calumny heaped upon them’ (I had to look that word up!) for going against the accepted groupthink. Truly awful – but given what we know now, not particularly surprising.

60204 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #1022 of 1148 🔗

Meanwhile in Bovine TB

“Bovine TB vaccine trials get go-ahead in England and Wales

“Field trials of a cattle vaccine for bovine tuberculosis have been given the go-ahead as part of moves to phase out badger culling to tackle the disease.

“The trials are due to get under way in England and Wales to accelerate deployment of a cattle vaccine for TB by 2025, the government announced on Wednesday.”


5 year plan to get to market.
Feels strangely coincidental with vaccines, cattle, ferguson. Just one of those things i suppose.

60233 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 1, #1023 of 1148 🔗

Did badger culling ever prove to prevent the spread of bovine TB?

I remember at the time the culling started opponents said it would not stop the spread of the disease.

60236 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1024 of 1148 🔗

Works in theory. Never proved to have worked in practice.

A bit like lockdown.

60277 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1025 of 1148 🔗

they made the mistake of not making the cows wear masks

60234 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Basics, 1, #1026 of 1148 🔗

So glad I’m a vegetarian.

60211 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 9, #1027 of 1148 🔗

For all those who thought the 5G/covid link was a myth and who wanted to disassociate themselves from the so-called conspiracy nuts. See this link https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32668870/ . Scientific paper that clearly states 5G can be used to create corona viruses in cells. The only reason why these conspiracy guys are considered to be nutters is because the mainstream media have labelled them such. I would hope people have learned that if the MSM say something the opposite is true. And they will keep an open mind. After all, everyone on this site will be a conspiracy nutter according to the press and yet we are all right to say the lockdown was a mistake.

People should have listened to people like David Icke 10 years ago when he explained exactly where the world was going i.e he said we were heading for compulsory vaccinations, microchipped population (exactly what Bill Gates wants to prove you have been vaccinated), total surveillance (track and trace) a cashless society (cash is now contaminated by covid) and a society run by technocrats (scientists on the payroll of big pharma). He specifically said a number of years ago to watch out for the influence of Bill Gates. Spot on on all counts.

Had more people listened to him instead of believing what the media said about him maybe we wouldn’t be in this mess.

60218 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Stephen McMurray, 3, #1028 of 1148 🔗

A stopped clock can be right on occasion. But I wouldn’t buy it.

60231 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stephen McMurray, 4, #1029 of 1148 🔗

So is it a virus or not?

constructing virus-like structures such as Coronaviruses (COVID-19) within cells.

I’m not a biochemist but the abstract contains some very sloppy and subjunctive writing. Besides, COVID-19 is the illness, not the virus.

60259 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Stephen McMurray, 4, #1030 of 1148 🔗

Not sure we do ourselves any favours entertaining such complete drivel.

60334 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1031 of 1148 🔗

Maybe,but the powers that be got rid of him pretty quickly from Facebook and you tube after he linked 5g and Covid;after tolerating him for years.

60281 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Stephen McMurray, #1032 of 1148 🔗


60342 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Stephen McMurray, #1033 of 1148 🔗

That’s the Davide Ike who was cancelled by YouTube just as the ‘crisis’ he’d been predicting got going.

60212 Barney McGrew, 2, #1034 of 1148 🔗


60216 RickH, replying to RickH, 8, #1035 of 1148 🔗

Just trying to find small comforts. At least I wasn’t daft enough to vote for this bunch of Spivs, Liars and Chancers. I didn’t buy the snake oil.

… but it is only a *small* comfort

60370 ▶▶ annie, replying to RickH, 3, #1036 of 1148 🔗

I think it’s a real comfort. I wouldn’t ever, ever want to join the zombies and surrender my humanity. We are still human. We represent the human race. It may be painful, but it should make us proud.

Remember, always remember, that sanity is not statistical.

We are right. They are wrong. Has anybody here ever doubted that for a single second?

60223 Biker, replying to Biker, 1, #1038 of 1148 🔗

As the peasant who looked after the Peacocks on my estate used to say in times like these “we should fill up the moat and pull back the drawbridge, the villagers are getting restless.”

60243 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Biker, #1039 of 1148 🔗


Help, I’m being repressed!

60227 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 12, #1040 of 1148 🔗

What are masks distracting us from?

We know they have little to no genuine medical reason.

Is it just to lower our ability to have a casual chat? Depress people a bit more?

60244 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Dave #KBF, 12, #1041 of 1148 🔗

I honestly don’t know. But I’m pretty sure there are no good intentions behind it.

60306 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #1042 of 1148 🔗

It’s to soften us all up to have the vaccine

60270 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1043 of 1148 🔗

Do you want a list?

  • Well … you could start with the need for distraction from the colossal f.up of Brexit as the boots of the money men fill up
  • You could cite the intention to turn the UK into the poodle of the US
  • You could cite the need to continue the upward movement and concentration of resources in the capital sector now that the ‘austerity’ con has run out of steam.
  • Then there’s big pharma/big data/big finance triangle and its political influence via the WHO and associated networks
  • … and all the other sources of money leaning on time-serving politicians
  • Of course – blind stupidity inherent in the in-breeding of the narcissistic Eton/Oxbridge elite might be worth thinking about
  • There is of course the simple self-seeking of some epidemiologists etc. preening themselves whilst seeking the Order of the Brown Nose to confirm their ‘importance’.

Etc …..

It’s not too difficult when normal democratic checks and balances, imperfect as they are, go out the window, and parliament ceases to function (remember – Mr Toad started down that road before all this kicked off)

60303 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, 2, #1044 of 1148 🔗

Brexit isn’t a fuck up and i can’t wait to get them euro fleas off my back.
America is cool and i’d rather be with them than the bloody Germans.
You grasp of economics is looser than the stool of a baby.
Anyone who say’s “Big Pharma” is a total moron with no health issues.
again you’ve no clue about economics.
If it’s inbreds you’re looking for i’d suggest the council estate chavs who, like you, appear to know didlly squat of fuck all and cost us rich people a fortune to keep like animals in a zoo..
What you posted makes less sense than wearing a mask


60229 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #1045 of 1148 🔗

Just posted on Telegraph. SI tomorrow with additional places for masks – cafes and takeaways!


60238 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1046 of 1148 🔗

Well that could end my trips to the local chippy.

60260 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, #1047 of 1148 🔗

Im expecting to see shops cutting holes to the street and serve through them as ice cream used to be.

60339 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #1048 of 1148 🔗

My re-opened chippy did just that, works while it’s sunny and warm.

60242 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #1049 of 1148 🔗

My initial reaction was pretty extreme. And then I realised that I can’t remember the last time I bought a takeaway coffee and my only takeaway food in 4 months has been 3 deliveries. So the idiots may as well just destroy another few percent of the economy.

60247 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 3, #1050 of 1148 🔗

It can only be deliberate. Pretty sure Boris didn’t mention it at this evenings 1922 committee meeting. Tomorrow they are off on their long-deserved and fully-paid holidays!

60255 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1051 of 1148 🔗

It seems that the 1922 committee would have applauded the idea and begged for a new template letter to send to their constituents.

But I hope that they enjoy their holidays. Gawd bless ‘em.

60245 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 16, #1052 of 1148 🔗

They can just fuck right off frankly

60256 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 20, #1053 of 1148 🔗

Well colour me unsurprised that it’s been expanded.

Whats the big deal, it’s only hospitals and GPs?

What’s the big deal it’s only hospitals, gp surgeries and all shops?

Whats the big deal it’s only hospitals, gp surgeries, all shops, cafés and takeaways?

A big fuck you to all the twats who kept telling me its only X stop fussing.

60258 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Mark II, 6, #1054 of 1148 🔗

Next it will be outside in public.

60276 ▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #1055 of 1148 🔗

Christ – please don’t give them any ideas!!

60291 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #1056 of 1148 🔗

It’s too late, it’s very much already part of the schedule.

60282 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #1057 of 1148 🔗

How will that work in Costa then: you go to the counter, order your coffee, then sit down. The bloody place only opened on Saturday! Sounds like it will now be shutting again.

60314 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #1058 of 1148 🔗

the comments are not complimentary to the government! there’s a lot of unhappy people in this country – shame there isn’t a single unifying force/party/rebellion to counter this madness as i think everyone needs to unite under one banner. But apart from a few individuals there isn’t any real opposition for people to support.

60241 nowhereman, replying to nowhereman, 14, #1059 of 1148 🔗

How long is it now since Super Saturday? Where is the resulting spike? No spike = no virus = no masks required.

60246 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to nowhereman, 10, #1060 of 1148 🔗

That sounds like observation and logical thought… which is not required thank you!

60263 ▶▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #1061 of 1148 🔗

Oops sorry Lord Handjob of Gates, please spare the children…

60249 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to nowhereman, 21, #1062 of 1148 🔗

And the Bournemouth beach ’emergency’, or Lverpool fans celebrating, or BLM protests, or the ‘illegal raves’, or when we all went… To the parks!!

How people still lap this up is totally beyond me :/

60257 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark II, 15, #1063 of 1148 🔗

“It’s still out there”
No it isn’t.
“Well, I’d rather have to wear a mask than not be able to leave the house”
Don’t be stupid. Why do you think it’s reasonable that the government should ever have told you to do either of those things?
“I hope you and your family have all kept safe”
Of course they have, as has virtually everybody else in the world, you moron.

Just 3 of the conversations I had to stop myself from having today, because clients and/or colleagues were involved.

60265 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, #1064 of 1148 🔗


60290 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 5, #1065 of 1148 🔗

You’ve more control than I. My boss brought it all up again today thinking the fact trump was no backing masks must have got me on side (which is odd as I’ve no love for trump at all) but instead he just set me off on a 10minute lecture unloading a whole host of actual facts on him… I could see it was actually starting to sink in too, that look of self doubt was creeping onto his face (but he’s still gonna mask up)

60304 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark II, 3, #1066 of 1148 🔗

What can I say? I deal with clients. If I hadn’t learned how to stop myself from telling people they were stupid, I’d have lost my job a couple of decades ago.

60369 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark II, 3, #1067 of 1148 🔗

But , as Trump is the epitome if Wrongness, aren’t masks now wrong?. Or, if they are right, doesn’t that make Trump right? A nice puzzler for Americans whose brains contain enough neurons to fire occasionally.

60375 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Strange Days, replying to annie, #1068 of 1148 🔗

A mass triggering of cognitive dissonance in the ‘orange man wrong’ ranks?

60429 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to annie, #1069 of 1148 🔗

The concern is once they can’t beat him with that stick they’re gonna just move onto something else, unfortunately, which means we’ll have another nonsensical restriction coming down the tracks shortly.

As for Trump himself, he’s undoubtedly not on ‘our side’, Trump is on his side and his side only, he cares about number 1 and has done since the day he was born into the multi millionaire elite circles he moves in. That said, the fact he only gives a shit about himself and what he thinks is right sometimes means he is right, and on masks and the threat of this virus he was undoubtedly right, unfortunately that has no succumbed to what that was doing for his chances of winning again in November so he’s simply U-Turned like all the other spineless politicians and is now backing stuff he doesnt believe in at all.

60251 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 35, #1070 of 1148 🔗

With Matt Handjob and Cresssida D!ck whipping up the mob by suggesting people shame those not wearing masks into leaving shops anyone care to guess how many days it will be before someone with learning difficulties or mental health issues or otherwise exempt is attacked? Even if it doesn’t get physical we have had plenty of instances of people shamed on social media committing suicide. How much more blood do these clowns want on their hands?

60252 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #1071 of 1148 🔗


60262 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 13, #1072 of 1148 🔗

Dick should resign for making such a rabble rousing suggestion, given there are literally hundreds of reasons why people can have completely valid exemptions under the law. We know she’s trigger happy.

60264 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to OKUK, 12, #1073 of 1148 🔗

Indeed. Isn’t incitement a crime?

60266 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 7, #1074 of 1148 🔗

It’s bloody stupid, this is just going to create a load of have a go heroes. There’s been fights and arguments on the footpath that runs past my house during lockdown because people have supposedly got too close. It’s gonna be kicking off in shops and superstores.

60384 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #1075 of 1148 🔗

They should be ashamed of their comments – its inciting hate, discrimination as well as sowing seeds of discord and distrust. Both Lieutenant Gruber and this Dick woman should be careful what they wish for, when the shit hits the fan they could be first in the firing line and no-one will ride to their rescue.

60261 James Leary #KBF, 21, #1076 of 1148 🔗

We are way, way past the time when we must be asked to endorse this government confiscation of our basic rights in an election. This is a coup.

60267 Biker, replying to Biker, #1077 of 1148 🔗

as the man who used to bring Elvis his water and scarves used to say in times like this “Don’t Cry, Daddy
Daddy, please don’t cry
Daddy, you’ve still got me and little Tommy
and together we’ll find a brand new mommy

60273 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, #1078 of 1148 🔗


Enjoy. It’s fabulous.

60268 Linda B, replying to Linda B, 29, #1079 of 1148 🔗

I have just heard Cressida Dick commissioner of police say that she hopes people will be shamed into wearing masks — Many people have a medical reason for not wearing masks – So our police commissioner wants us to be shamed. How dare she.
What sort of society are we living in. Our Government and it’s ill thought out rules is now causing shaming of innocent people …….

60278 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Linda B, 15, #1080 of 1148 🔗

I dread to think what effect her words will have on the kind of people who can’t tell the difference between a pediatrician and a pedophile.

60293 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1081 of 1148 🔗

It’s happened before.

60294 ▶▶ Invunche, replying to Linda B, 5, #1082 of 1148 🔗

She’s an incredibly stupid person.

I guarantee that her IQ is below 100.

60308 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Linda B, 6, #1083 of 1148 🔗

Did she call for shaming of BLM protestors who broke social distancing rules.

60435 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Linda B, #1084 of 1148 🔗

She’s Common Purpose, the only reason she’s got that job

60275 matt, 28, #1085 of 1148 🔗

Somebody here quoted St Augustine yesterday:
Lex iniusta non est lex.
(An unjust law is not law)
Her majesty’s government does not effect law telling her subjects what they must wear, who they may see, where they may go and how they might interact.

I’ve built my morale back up through the day. I do not consider this government’s laws to be legitimate. I will not follow them.

60285 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 22, #1086 of 1148 🔗

If anyone asks me why I’m not wearing a mask I will say that it’s pointless and we have a duty to get the government to back down.

60318 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Jonathan Castro, 11, #1087 of 1148 🔗

Absolutely, because still stating you’re exempt is going along with it and using a loophole they’ve created. We need to be steadfast in our resolution that they are entirely political and should not be shamed or have to prove we don’t have to, when the truth is masks do incredibly little if anything. And also, surely we want it to be spread more widely for more people to be immune, the longer we drag it out the longer all these measures are in place given a vaccine is unlikely in a best case scenario!

60289 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1088 of 1148 🔗

From Corrnell Univ
Interesting hypothesis that there was a milder version spreading of SARS-Cov2 before a more virulent strain later. This could explain some paradoxes that countries with much direct flights to China not that affected and herd immunity reached earlier than expected.

60298 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to swedenborg, #1089 of 1148 🔗

Interesting. If true, it could explain a lot, and it come be game changer. However, it’s at odds with the current global narrative, so even if it’s 100% accurate it will probably be swept under the table.

60323 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1090 of 1148 🔗

Yes v interesting. Would accord with the experience of many in the UK who in the Autumn experienced a very very stubborn respiratory disease that took weeks or months to disappear though people could very often continue working through it. That sounds like a Sars style infection.

60336 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to swedenborg, #1091 of 1148 🔗

That was being speculated a month into the ‘crisis’ when California had only about 10% cases/deaths than New York because almost all flights from China and hundreds of thousands of Chinese tourists come into Californian airports.
New Yorks covid carriers came later, from Europe.

60292 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #1092 of 1148 🔗

Activists hold up banner saying ‘England get out of Scotland’ at border during protest
Campaigners from Action for Scotland insist the border should be closed to English people, although, they say they are not anti-English.

Activist Sean Clerkin said: “All people must stop travelling from England to Scotland for non essential reasons to protect the people of Scotland from Covid-19.

“New cases of Covid-19 are 5.5 times higher in England than Scotland and Professor Rowland Kao a mathematical biologist at Edinburgh University stated recently that if there is increased travel between England and Scotland it is inevitable that cases of Covid-19 will increase in Scotland.

More at

60297 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 20, #1093 of 1148 🔗

Fuck these people. I’m embarrassed that people think Scottish people are all like this scum. It’s no wonder though what with Sturgeon and her gang being bunch of fucking bigots. The scary thing is they’ve lied so much they actually believe they’re not anti english. You folk think it’s bad in England, you want to try and live in this socialist hell hole. I really believe they won’t be happy till we’re all wearing mandatory kilts and forced fed Porridge.

60310 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Biker, 4, #1094 of 1148 🔗

I’d rather have mandatory kilts than mandatory masks.

60300 ▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 1, #1095 of 1148 🔗

I was about to make a flippant comment about the highland clearances.

But actually, a serious point occurs to me – is Covid now an English thing in the mind of Sturge Un’s most fanatical supporters? Has it always been an English thing, or only now that Scotland is so orgasmically close to eliminating it?

(I note that essential travel is fine. Wouldn’t want the overwhelmingly northbound supply chain to be interrupted, would we?)

60305 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to matt, 1, #1096 of 1148 🔗

who knows what the average snp punter thinks, they don’t know themselves

60337 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 1, #1097 of 1148 🔗

It is an attempt to fuse Covid to English. The truly concerning bit is that some snp supporters will think this is a bright resonable idea. Why not protest around motherwell where tge track and trace outbreak occured or why not protest at Kilmahog to keep the central belt out of the hughlands. There is a lack of condemnation by even a few hours that is read into as encouragement. Last border protest the Justice snp Yousaf claimed the protesters were racists… again another encouraging sign – condeming on one hand but declaring English as a different race on the snp other hand. Ugh.

It’s more upsetting than realised – it is done as a smear the English whether the mathematician know it or not.

60295 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, #1098 of 1148 🔗

From The Guardian (where else):


No. Men are better leaders, generally speaking.

60312 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1099 of 1148 🔗

Doesn’t have the highest deaths per million rate and a female leader?

60315 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to OKUK, 1, #1100 of 1148 🔗


60316 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tenchy, #1101 of 1148 🔗

Yes sorry for omission.

60307 swedenborg, 10, #1102 of 1148 🔗

This is all cause death different age groups adjusted for population week1-26 from 2000 Sweden
2020 not worse than 2015 but the most striking thing is age below 65(working age) death all causes continuing a downward trend.

60327 nfw, replying to nfw, 1, #1103 of 1148 🔗

I think you need a subbie: “ Sing this petition on the UK Government petitions site and get the issue debated in Parliament” Sing?

60392 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to nfw, 1, #1104 of 1148 🔗

Because singing is now illegal, it’s an act of defiance.

We should gather hundreds of protestors outside Parliament, singing out the names of the petitioners at the top of their lungs.

60346 richard riewer, 1, #1105 of 1148 🔗

The Finance Minister of Canada, Bill Morneau, paid back more than $40,000 to WE Charity just hours before he was to testify before MPs.

60368 BJ, #1106 of 1148 🔗

Theme Tune suggestion [inspired by Sun article]
“Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of London
and I will certainly show you something that will change your lockdown mind

60372 annie, replying to annie, 17, #1107 of 1148 🔗

A friend tells me that the Co-op in Linton, a large village near Cambridge, has been closed for the last four days, and no date for re-opening set, because one employee tested positive for coronavirus.
My friend, who has swallowed the poison narrative whole, isn’t the least bit angry. Like most of the sheeples, she will put up with anything.
There is no other food shop within five miles. We have another friend there who is ninety-six and could never cope with a bus journey (supposing a bus were available anyway), or with going round a big supermarket. She will be supported by her neighbours, but what about others?
No grief, folks. You will starve, but you won’t get the Bug.

60374 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 6, #1108 of 1148 🔗

Should have taken the Co OP 2 days to deep clean the store and bring in staff from elsewhere.

60382 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1109 of 1148 🔗

Maybe the good sheeples ofLinton actually want to starve to death in order to save lives.

60387 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to annie, #1110 of 1148 🔗

How about Linton Food and Wine supermarket, a stone’s throw from the Linton Co-op?

60377 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 13, #1112 of 1148 🔗

Very begrudging coverage of Sweden on R4 Today Show this morning. Stressing repeatedly the high death toll compared to its neighbours (but not mentioning excess death figures which are of course lower) but also mentioning the steep decline in deaths and ICU admissions in the last few weeks. The tone could not have been less enthusiastic – you think they would have mentioned the fact that the kids of Sweden have been in school the entire time so not had their education suffer) – and concluded that only time will tell if they were right and everyone else was wrong.

60380 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to The Spingler, 10, #1113 of 1148 🔗

I think we already know who was right and who was wrong. Which is why those countries who got it wrong just can’t drop it. Sweden is a right royal thorn in their side. I’m glad about that, really glad. A little old-fashioned this, but huzzah for Sweden!

60378 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 17, #1114 of 1148 🔗

By the way, shouldn’t we now be well into the expected spike from ‘Super Saturday’ and when all those common people went to the beach?
comment image ?20200705191803

I hope Rod Liddle is feeling very foolish.
Have you got any plans for the weekend? Going to a rave? Or just down the pub to breathe over as many people as you possibly can.
Here’s my big worry. That Super Saturday will be followed, five days later, by Terrible Thursday.

From the Evening Standard:
Super Saturday revellers ‘clearly unable to stick to social distancing rules’ as hundreds of thousands hit the pub amid packed scenes in Soho

But what, in fact, happened? Oh… comment image

Surely this, on its own, should be enough to argue that this whole thing is b*ll*cks.

60381 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #1115 of 1148 🔗

They’re all speaking through their arses. We now need to completely replace the Establishment. We can start with a properly written Constitution, ensuring no power grabs like this one can ever happen again.
Edit: No power grabs without the express consent of the people in a referendum, with further referenda every six months if necessary. At least we will know where the blame lies then.

60383 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1116 of 1148 🔗

They’d just override it. Spain had a constitution guaranteeing political liberty throughout the Franco era.

60386 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, #1117 of 1148 🔗

And as they are trying to do in the US too. But it would be a start.

60385 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1118 of 1148 🔗

Will over the border in Englandistanshire on Saturday, more precisely in Chester. Just to see how weekend shopping is going with or without muzzles, fights, etc.

If anyone is about, I’ll be somewhere along Foregate or Eastgate Street, pad and pencil in one hand for taking notes, and a large bucket of popcorn in the other, in case there are any punchups for entertainment going on.

60388 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, #1119 of 1148 🔗

I might be about… Saturday afternoon?

60390 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, #1120 of 1148 🔗

Late morning to afternoon certainly.

60391 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1121 of 1148 🔗

Just wanting to see what’s what at the shops. Will folk roll over? Or not?

60393 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1122 of 1148 🔗

As for the residual noise stretching out at the end of this graph, it’s most likely false positives.
comment image

Government paper on PCR test accuracy:

When only a small proportion of people being tested have the virus, the operational false positive rate becomes very important.


Basically, the virus has gone.

60395 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1123 of 1148 🔗

It’s bumping along the ground all right, as you say this could be false positives. I do hear (wish I could remember where, but am reading so much from many different places now) that the vaccine trials are under threat because attempts to infect the guinea pigs test subjects are failing.

It might return over the winter, then we’ll find out how good or otherwise the herd immunity theories are!

60400 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1124 of 1148 🔗

Herd immunity cannot be seen to be the reason why a second wave is prevented; we will all be forced into a pointless lockdown as soon as there is the slightest suggestion of a couple of cases in Wuhan and when we emerge Johnson will have his Canute moment….

60402 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Will, 6, #1125 of 1148 🔗

Unfortunately no future lockdown will be as successful as the one we are apparently emerging from. Many people will be disregarding it, especially as the P45s will be flying around by then.

My co-operation with the last lockdown was sketchy at best. It will be non-existent for any future repeat, assuming the government is stupid enough.

60404 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1126 of 1148 🔗

Oh, they’re stupid enough.
Buy sandwich, sit down? NO. Sit down, order sandwich? YES.
Because virus.

60403 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Will, 1, #1127 of 1148 🔗

But surely the enforced wearing of masks will ensure a second wave of something, with everyone’s immunity compromised?

60410 ▶▶▶▶▶ Will, replying to bluemoon, #1128 of 1148 🔗

Funnily enough, I think the opposite will be the case, as I expect a bit of an epidemic of sickness and diarrhoea as people forego washing their hands, as the face nappies make them invincible, and then spend their whole time pulling the sodden wraps off their faces with their filthy hands.

60399 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1129 of 1148 🔗

Interesting read. Goes to show the tests are not reliable.

60426 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Barney McGrew, #1130 of 1148 🔗

All the selfish, granny killing bastard beach stories began in late April. This graph really puts that into perspective.


60394 Mark B, 9, #1131 of 1148 🔗

People with treatable cancers are going to die because hospitals have been laid empty due to Government scaremongering, an NHS nurse has warned.
An NHS nurse called Holly* has said that throughout the lockdown period “hospitals were empty” beyond the ICU units and Covid wards and that people have died as a result. “We’ve been saying for months now that services just aren’t running at anywhere near normal capacity and we’re building up more problems than Covid has caused by a mile.
“We have a lot of deaths in my area but we’re going to have an awful lot more from cancers that are going undiagnosed and strokes that haven’t been treated….those who will die as a result of measures put in place to protect the NHS will include “young healthy people who had treatable cancers and treatable issues”.


60397 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steeve, 1, #1133 of 1148 🔗

Yep, I called this the other day, fa cup final next, football fans will save the day.

To quote bill shankly
Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I don’t like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that

60398 Will, 3, #1134 of 1148 🔗

The Dick woman will have blood on her hands when someone ends up dead after a row about face masks.

60401 Biker, replying to Biker, 15, #1135 of 1148 🔗

The big countdown is on. Less than 24 hours till lift off.
This time tomorrow the mighty England, once ruler of the seven seas, the nation that invented the modern world, who’s art’s, music, science and literature dominates popular culture on nearly all parts of this blue marble will be subjugated, broken, torn apart and rotten.
And most of the English will be just fucking dandy with that.
The country that stood alone against the evil Bosch, who took Africa from the lions and made America have become cowards sitting back watching their country destroyed by outside forces.
With smart phones in hand and masks on their faces
they take their places
in the faceless society.
The mask of the beast on every street and in every home
the sun has set on the empire, it’s gone
With parliament disbanded now an empty building,
haunted and totally ruined
The good ship Albion has hit the rocks
Boudica’s children will wear masks in shops
will it ever stop? I hear some cry
but with a whimper she dies.
No longer the common man under common law
without the heart to fight for
liberty, at any cost
Englands Paradise lost.

60409 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 2, #1136 of 1148 🔗

Churchill quote (there’s always a Churchill quote), slightly adapted:

What he [Johnson] has done is to kindle a fire in British hearts, here and all over the world, which will glow long after all traces of the conflagration he has caused in England have been removed. He has lighted a fire which will burn with a steady and consuming flame until the last vestiges of Woke tyranny have been burnt out of Europe, and until the Old World — and the New — can join hands to rebuild the temples of man’s freedom and man’s honour, upon foundations which will not soon or easily be overthrown.

60413 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to TJN, 1, #1137 of 1148 🔗

To quote John Lydon, “there no future and Englands Dreaming

60419 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, #1138 of 1148 🔗

‘When there’s no future there cannot be sin’

60412 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Biker, 2, #1139 of 1148 🔗

I think you will be surprised at how many won’t wear a mask and how many refuse to go into shops and how many shops won’t comply. Already on trains many don’t wear them despite the propaganda photo’s the media put out.

60416 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Dan Clarke, -1, #1140 of 1148 🔗

I hate to tell you this bro but up here in Scotland almost everyone is wearing them and i suspect the same will happen in England No i don’t suspect i know 100% without a doubt

60425 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, #1141 of 1148 🔗

Re-post on new page just out?

60405 Rebel, #1142 of 1148 🔗

Have ordered the exempt badges…spent yesterday having to wear a mask on an empty train, and while visiting a museum..They should be for the paranoid only…had a conversation with a bored transport policemen, who said he didn’t have to wear a mask, but was…Unless medical grade, and put on correctly are pointless..and probably sources of disease..would love to know if there is a surge in TB , Hepatitis etc as a result of these being discarded…

60414 Sarigan, #1143 of 1148 🔗

New page is live

60415 Cecil B, 5, #1144 of 1148 🔗

An update

Five days out now

Day 1 A trip to the newsagent
Day 2 Waiting for kneel (he still hasn’t turned up, staring to get worried, will check the canal again)
Day 3 The police are a mirage
Day 4 A visit to the seaside


Yesterday evening we sat on the patio of the village rugby club. A group of refuseniks gather each evening to take in the sun. Mine is a pint of cider on ice. It’s BYO, as the club has still not reopened yet.

Our group gets larger each day. We all take our litter home with us and leave it as pristine as we found it. In an act of defiance we drink from pint glasses that we bring with us (yes women too, it’d that kind of place)

Sat next to me is my partner of 40 years (Jesus, I’ve started doing it, she’s not my bleeding partner, a partner is someone you play cards with, she’s my wife)

Things been cooking round her for a long time. Neolithic axe heads, an iron age hill fort, roman remains and a Norman castle

On the village square the union jack flies next to the war memorial. Three ancient inns front onto the square. None of them have reopened (inside or out) threatening phone calls from the local Stasi soon put paid to that

The then Lord of the Manor gave the land for the rugby club to the villagers in 1882.
He also gave the land for the cricket, tennis, and bowls clubs. His other contributions were the Scouts Hall and a lovely Parish Hall built in 1907, in the Arts and Crafts style

He was a General in the British Army in India (thank god there are no statues to him)

In the Great War he came out of retirement to set up the local red cross hospital for casualties

When he passed on the Scouts lined the funeral route to the 14th century church. Heads bowed resting on their staves

My thoughts drift off. I think about John Owen Jones, my great uncle. He died of his wounds in Flanders in July 1917 aged 24. (funny how they are nearly all great uncles, few living long enough to have children of their own). I visited his grave a few years ago and placed flowers upon it. Possibly the first person ever to do so

His memorial plaque and victory medal sit in a display cabinet at home. They sit next to my late mother and fathers wartime medals. My father used to joke that the war would have ended two years earlier if my mother had not been involved. I wonder what it was like to be a 19 year old on D Day, and resolve to pass on his legion Du Honnour to our eldest son

Then my thoughts turn to the betrayal and the lying, my feelings spin out of control

“What are you thinking about”


“Yes you are I can tell”

“No nothing”

Another thought crosses my mind, if he’s shagged everything that’s moved he’s not likely to stop at us

I am back in the room, and the conversation turns to ice packs, the fact that none of us will give our names in order to go into a pub, and what’s for dinner

Tomorrow: Rishi Sunak sponsors the bowls Club

60421 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1145 of 1148 🔗

Mr Trump last night – ‘50% of virus deaths from 1% of the population’. Of course we all know that, but his comment, along with the ‘I am happy for my son and grandchildren to go back to school’ sat well with his return to calling the virus ‘Wuhan flu’ and the ‘Chinese plague’. He is announcing in the next week or so, research from the US about children’s inability to catch and transmit the virus. Let’s see whether this will convince teaching unions, with their over-riding concern about the education of children!

60428 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1146 of 1148 🔗

The problem is that at least half the world assume that whatever Trump says must infallibly be the opposite of the truth.

60564 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to guy153, #1147 of 1148 🔗

And he has started spotting a face nappy – which sends an entirely different message altogether.

60887 Martin VT, #1148 of 1148 🔗

I have just watched excellent interview by Charlie Kirk with Dr Simone Gold who gives a lengthy but extremely clear exposure re Covid, treatment and risk, and in particular issues around Chloroquine.


172 users made 1,115 comments today.

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43mjr0, 0, 4, 1, 10, 1, 4, 2, 6, 2, 3, 6, 4
43MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG4, 6, 5, 0, 0, 9, 2, 1, 5, 1, 3, 6, 0, 1
41NickR18, 9, 0, 4, 9, 1
38T. Prince5, 0, 0, 2, 6, 1, 0, 0, 7, 2, 8, 1, 2, 4
37Keen Cook1, 6, 26, 4
37Dave #KBF2, 14, 6, 1, 12, 2
37PoshPanic2, 1, 12, 6, 3, 13, 0
37Ryan151, 0, 3, 2, 5, 3, 1, 7
36Tom Blackburn0, 17, 15, 13, 0, 0, 0
36stefarm44, 0, 1, 1, 7, 10, 1, 3, 1, 2, 1, 1
35Guirme9, 9, 7, 10
35Richard O17, 2, 5, 4, 7
35Dan Clarke42, 5, 8, 0, 3, 2, 8, 1, 0, 2
35Carrie0, 3, 1, 6, 2, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 16
34Jonathan Palmer9, 0, 1, 5, 6, 6, 4, 2, 1, 0
30Mark B921
29Linda B29
29Mike Smith29
29stewart14, 11, 4
29Nobody202072, 1, 1, 3, 5, 5, 3, 2
29Cicatriz5, 2, 5, 1, 4, 6, 0, 0, 3, 2, 1
26John Ballard26
25Kelly deacons25
23Victoria1, 3, 0, 0, 1, 0, 2, 16
23guy1531, 3, 1, 1, 6, 0, 4, 3, 4
22Jonathan Castro22
22ambwozere3, 4, 9, 6
22Lili2, 5, 9, 6
22Edward3, 12, 6, 0, 1, 0
22Emma12, 3, -5, 6, 0, 3, 3
21Jay Berger5, 1, 7, 8
20Tenchy0, 1, 1, 2, 1, 8, 6, 0, 0, 1
19Edna2, 4, 3, 1, 0, 0, 1, 8
19JohnB0, 3, 2, 1, 0, 5, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 3, 2, 0
18nowhereman14, 4
18RyanM54, 5, 4
18anon2, 6, 3, 2, 2, 1, 2
17Steve Hayes5, 2, 2, 0, 0, 8
17karenovirus2, 2, 1, 4, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 6
16Lms234, 4, 0, 3, 1, 4
15BTLnewbie7, 8, 0
15bluemoon6, 7, 0, 1, 1
14thedarkhorse12, 2
13The Spingler13
13Sue1, 2, 2, 2, 6
12Steve Martindale12
12Youth_Unheard1, 11
12DRW3, 8, 1
12Steeve10, 2, 0
12James0073, 4, 2, 3
11DressageRider11, 0
11Simon8, 3
11watashi7, 4
11smileymiley3, 2, 6
11Mr Dee17, 2, 1, 0, 0
10Laura Suckling10
10Jane in France3, 7
9Stephen McMurray9
9Lisa from Toronto5, 4
9Nel5, 4
9DavidC6, 1, 2
7Marvin421, 6
7mhcp0, 7
7Rabbit5, 0, 2
5Strange Days5, 0
5Will30, 2, 0
5Rowan0, 1, 1, 2, 1
4AN other lockdown sceptic4
4Andy Riley4
4Hammer Onats4
4Montag Smith4
4dpj0, 4
4Humanity First1, 1, 2, 0
3DJ Dod3
3Drawde9272, 1
3Nigel Sherratt0, 3
3Rick1, 2
3Bruno2, 0, 1, 0
2A Reader2
2Ed Phillips2
1Ewan Duffy1
1Chris John1, 0
0Bella Donna0
0Country Mumkin0
0hat man0
0Locked down and out0
0Martin VT0
0Ned of the Hills0
0Simon Dutton0
0stevie1190, 0
0They dont like it up 'em0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0