2020-07-23

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/23/latest-news-82/
Published2020-07-23T07:36:48
Last updated2020-07-24T07:59:16
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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60406 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #1 of 1437 🔗

Stagecoach fears many passengers may never return after lockdown | Business | The Times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drop-in-passengers-leaves-stagecoach-on-shaky-ground-8kr292x89

60469 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to HawkAnalyst, 9, #2 of 1437 🔗

Cycle lanes up the M6 it is then.

60679 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 10, #3 of 1437 🔗

Going down is not too bad. Going back up is the problem.

61014 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #4 of 1437 🔗

If I stop peddling in Preston, do you think I could freewheel to Watford?

I know someone who loves cycling do not let him see this or that will move in-front of HS2/3 or whatever it is called.

61720 ▶▶ Lili, replying to HawkAnalyst, #5 of 1437 🔗

As long as journeys on public transport are made as unpleasant as possible with mandatory muzzles (particularly on trains with their non-stop muzzle announcement garbage), no – they won’t.

60407 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #6 of 1437 🔗

Home Bargains sees no value in worker bonus plan | Business | The Times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/home-bargains-sees-no-value-in-worker-bonus-plan-fqmvlrxv3

60779 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #7 of 1437 🔗

Paywall!

60408 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #8 of 1437 🔗

Letters: Teachers are not the public-sector workers who most deserve a pay rise

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/07/22/lettersteachers-not-public-sector-workers-deserve-pay-rise/

60587 ▶▶ RickH, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #9 of 1437 🔗

Be *very* wary of succumbing to tactics that set one group of victims against another.

It’s one of the oldest tricks in the book (See : ‘Enforcement of mask wearing’)

60690 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to RickH, 3, #10 of 1437 🔗

Hah, spot the teacher!

60785 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 13, #11 of 1437 🔗

Here’s another victim. It’s another letter from AH’s link above:

I rang my surgery last week to request an injection in my knee. I have severe arthritis and need a total knee replacement. Steroid injections and painkillers are part of the management plan to delay the operation as long as possible as I am “only” 56 years old.
I was told that I cannot have another steroid injection until a vaccine is available , as these injections suppress the immune system and put me at risk of contracting Covid.
If this is PHE’s advice it is very short-sighted and will cause immense pain and stress to all those like myself who are dependent on them to maintain a normal and active lifestyle.

60799 ▶▶▶▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #12 of 1437 🔗

So if the person in question was opposed to having the vaccine as soon as it becomes available, does that mean they wouldn’t be able to have another steroid/painkiller injection?

60928 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Suze Burtenshaw, 1, #13 of 1437 🔗

Sounds like it!

61148 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to IanE, 1, #14 of 1437 🔗

Spot the teacher spotter!

61216 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IanE, 1, #15 of 1437 🔗

Wrong. A lot of us work hard to not reinforce the idea that people who oppose this government aren’t just stupid twats who make this sort of brainless remark.

Stick to the evidence and the argument – not the dickhead prejudices.

61565 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to RickH, 1, #16 of 1437 🔗

well… the teacher’s unions, at least in the US, are doing a lot to deserve our contempt. Not a prejudice against them as a class of people, but as an organization, they are doing a lot of harm. I say that as a parent.

60411 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 24, #17 of 1437 🔗

Viral second wave fear will drive us into another lockdown

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/23/viral-second-wave-fear-will-drive-us-another-lockdown/

In a strange way, then, the “second wave” concept has become a comfort blanket; it’s a little more acceptable for the world to lock down and hide under the stairs if it can kid itself that it’s just for this one last time, to see the virus off. But such an attitude becomes infantile as soon as you accept that coronavirus may be endemic – we cannot, for three months every year, shut down the entire planet.

But instead of looking us square in the eye, the Tories have chosen Big Brother’s panopticon; No 10’s new Joint Biosecurity Centre, which will drive “whack-a-mole” local lockdowns, is slickness posing as strategy – and, as it happens, reporting into track-and-trace app failure Dido Harding. When the public twigs that the infection is unlikely to be controlled in this way, the sheer panic could send us back into national lockdown. Three scenarios might help avoid the latter: a vaccine comes along; the Government gets its act together with a plan to protect the vulnerable; or we put in place safety valves against mass hysteria.

…………

Imperial College’s research needs to be particularly scrutinised, as its international influence grows. Dr Seth Flaxman – the first author in the paper that notoriously claimed lockdowns may have prevented over 3 million deaths in Europe – this week won fresh funding to model the pandemic across several countries.

Revelations that disrupt the narrative also need to find a stronger voice: within 24 hours, the scandal of PHE’s inflated daily death figures was running out of mileage. This week’s London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine modelling on the impact of the pandemic on cancer deaths never gathered steam. So too a paper by Oxford’s Prof Sunetra Gupta, which elegantly combined those uneasy epidemiological bedfellows – theory and evidence – to find some parts of the UK may already have reached herd immunity.

Finally, instead of mindless second wave tracking on a 24-hour loop, the broadcast media should put its energies into probing the dishonesty of politicians and assertions of scientists.

And pigs might fly? When the solution is as fantastical as the problem, it ain’t exactly a good sign. And so a summer most strange looks set to develop into a thoroughly dark winter’s tale

60479 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #18 of 1437 🔗

Here’s the problem with the whole second wave narrative, as I see it. This may be stating the obvious and I’m sure it has been discussed before, but this idea began with Fergusons shameful model.
Re reading it again, it’s difficult to not see, that he based his modelling on the H1N1 pandemic of 1918. It’s there, referenced in the opening summary.

The last time the world responded to a global emerging disease epidemic of the scale of the current COVID-19 pandemic with no access to vaccines was the 1918-19 H1N1 influenza pandemic. In that pandemic, some communities, notably in the United States (US), responded with a variety of non- pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) – measures intended to reduce transmission by reducing contact

1

rates in the general population .

Various scientists predicted, based on coronavirus models, that this would become, or was endemic. They were completely ignored. Why?

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/mrc-gida/2020-03-16-COVID19-Report-9.pdf

60569 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #19 of 1437 🔗

The parallel often made with the 1918/19 pandemic is entirely inaccurate and irrelevant. It’s over 100 years ago – you might as well use Eyam and the plague as a model Even its alleged ‘second wave’ has been questioned as being an epidemic of another virus.

60565 ▶▶ RickH, replying to HawkAnalyst, 22, #20 of 1437 🔗

Imperial College’s research needs to be particularly scrutinised,”

Jeez! That must be the understatement of the decade 🙂 The only useful thing about ICL research is to help work out the most unlikely scenario and what *not* to do.

What is interesting is how the epidemiological/virus science community has thrown up two groups. The first is the ‘Ferguson’ class of experts in hysterical and unbalanced exaggeration who like playing with useless computer models and seek suddenly rewarded attention like a child at Christmas.

The other group is represented by real scientists like Professors Henaghan, Gupta and Ionnedes and Dr Wittkowski who speak in measured, rational tones about the actual evidence – as opposed to fantasies constructed from bits and bytes.

The man from Mars descends and examines which group has been shown to be more accurate.

There is no contest : the attention seekers, often with honorary O.B.N credits to their names, have an incredible record …. events have rarely proved them right as sound data has emerged. Their main skills have been in re-fabricating propaganda-driven rationales, like the ‘Second Wave’ theory and the elusive ‘R’ number, based on quantum-like entities such as ‘Covid’ ‘cases’. (Although, dead or alive, there was at least a cat when Schrodinger’s box was opened).

On the other hand, the ‘proper’ ‘stick-to the knitting and stop attention seeking politics’ scientists with their record of measured proportion and scepticism about wild claims had long been vindicated in their analysis and forecasts about this fairly usual virus.

But the Man from Mars then looks to see who gets airtime, and whose advice is followed …. gets back on board his craft and f.s off back home as quickly as possible, having decided that there is no hope for this planet as long as the lunatics are allowed to play with dangerous toys.

60927 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, 9, #21 of 1437 🔗

If one didn’t know better, one could be forgiven for thinking that the media have more than a vested interest in keeping people unnecessarily scared, rather than reporting news and asking the right questions.

61168 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lms23, 2, #22 of 1437 🔗

Good of you to remind us of how honest the media is. Thank you.

60612 ▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to HawkAnalyst, 13, #23 of 1437 🔗

There is a day coming very soon when our elected elites issue yet another insane rule demanding we proles obey and a majority of us will finally just shrug our shoulders and say, “meh, just go away”. We’ll get on with our lives and they will have no way to make us obey. At which point the rest of the country will realise the emperor has no clothes. Of course, the media will freak out saying the peasants are revolting when actually we are finally regaining our composure.

60929 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Digital Nomad, 1, #24 of 1437 🔗

Unfortunately, I very much doubt it. Too many people have been scared stupid.

61186 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Digital Nomad, #25 of 1437 🔗

That day should have been tomorrow if not earlier, but it won’t ever happen. Strolling round Morrisons today, the place was littered with around 50% of shoppers being mask wearers, who just couldn’t wait to jump the gun. If the corona-scam is ever to be gotten of our backs, it will be by the actions of a militant minority who will not be cowed. We remain, for the foreseeable future, in very deep trouble.

60634 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #26 of 1437 🔗

What we “should” do is just forget the whole thing and go back to normal. But if we HAVE TO adopt measures based on any kind of modelling then obviously we look back at who was right about Covid and who was wrong and listen to those who were right going forward.

Somehow I think they’re going to listen to broadly the same people!!!

60923 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Lockdown Truth, #27 of 1437 🔗

The truth is ,at least for me, if it had not been for the media and the government I would never have known about the virus and would have carried on working and socialising exactly as before. And guess what…it would not have made a blind bit of difference. A bit like my two cats did!

60694 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, #28 of 1437 🔗

It’s an excellent article. Just dipped into the ocmments. The recents ones are thoroughly depressing!
Maybe some of you would like to do a bit of redressing?

60786 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, #29 of 1437 🔗

IC’s research needs to be buried in a deep abyss.

60814 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #30 of 1437 🔗

No Midsummer’s Night Dream this year. It has been CANCELLED. Postponed on account of incompetence and greed.

60865 ▶▶ Jane, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #31 of 1437 🔗

“Three scenarios might help avoid the latter: a vaccine comes along; the Government gets its act together with a plan to protect the vulnerable; or we put in place safety valves against mass hysteria.”

Scenario 4: We/you develop herd immunity and also work on beefing up our own innate immune systems via vit. D, zinc, quercitin, sunshine, plenty of exercise, healthy diet (no trans fats, fresh veg, organ meats [minerals], grass=fed meat, milk, eggs, and cheese [sources of vit. A]).

60417 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 10, #32 of 1437 🔗

People with treatable cancers will die due to Government scaremongering, warns NHS nurse

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/23/people-treatable-cancers-will-die-due-government-scaremongering/

60711 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 6, #33 of 1437 🔗

Excerpt from the above:

“We have PPE now, at the beginning there was a bit of a scramble for it but by mid-April I would say most Trusts had enough PPE to have continued to have least to run beyond the skeleton Covid system.
“I think there was a middle ground to be struck between keeping the hospitals safe and when it became apparent that we weren’t going to get this overwhelming first wave I think we should have started up services sooner and they still not being started,” she said.
She went on to criticise GPs who had been doing telephone and video consultations exclusively who she said were a “massive piece missing”.

60933 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #34 of 1437 🔗

Yeah. We know. We’ve been saying this for months, but the media have been too busy leading the weekly clapathon to notice or care. They’re a bit late to the truth…

60418 Stuart Anderton, replying to Stuart Anderton, -35, #35 of 1437 🔗

Isn’t the key phrase in the Welsh mask advice “healthy people”? The point is masks is to help prevent *infected* people spreading the virus to others.

60422 ▶▶ matt, replying to Stuart Anderton, 37, #36 of 1437 🔗

If you’re infected but asymptomatic, you’re healthy. In the same way that all those times in your life you were carrying around a ‘flu virus or a cold virus and didn’t even know it, you were healthy.

60454 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, 6, #37 of 1437 🔗

I have sneezed twice in 4 months.

60559 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 2, #38 of 1437 🔗

Try snuff …

61121 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, 1, #39 of 1437 🔗

mummmm snuff, I gave that up ages ago

61363 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 1, #40 of 1437 🔗

Useful on trains and planes. 🙂

60723 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 3, #41 of 1437 🔗

Oh you must have had covid!

60934 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Two-Six, 2, #42 of 1437 🔗

Lucky you.
I’ve had hay fever and couldn’t stop sneezing.

60463 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Stuart Anderton, 24, #43 of 1437 🔗

I’m not infected, so I don’t need to wear a mask.

60491 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Stuart Anderton, 26, #44 of 1437 🔗

How many times in your life might you have unknowingly been infected by a virus which you passed on by touching a doorhandle, which then spread to some old dear coming after you who it severely affected and ultimately killed? You never know, and we can’t live as a society in constant fear that at any interaction we ever have could kill someone eventually. People die all the time, I’m sure if we try hard enough we could all somehow be linked!

60714 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Youth_Unheard, 9, #45 of 1437 🔗

How many times throughout her life did said old dear do likewise?

60931 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Basics, #46 of 1437 🔗

The first certainty of life is ultimate death.

60499 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Stuart Anderton, 14, #47 of 1437 🔗

And with a prevalence of somewhere in the region of 1 in every 3000 (likely less, given false positives…) it therefore clearly makes no logical, economical, environmental or moral sense to enforce the masks on the healthy 2,999 in every 3,000. This is not a contestable conclusion, and yet, idiots think it’s those who don’t wish to needlessly suffocate themselves who are the selfish ones.

60506 ▶▶ steve, replying to Stuart Anderton, 14, #48 of 1437 🔗

Stay under your bed. It’s safer there.

60667 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to steve, 3, #49 of 1437 🔗

What if you have a divan?

60718 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #50 of 1437 🔗

There are magicians who have turned that into a stage act, it takes a saw…

60727 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #51 of 1437 🔗

Stay on top of it – but get a mosquito net!

60519 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Stuart Anderton, 8, #52 of 1437 🔗

Except they fail to do even that (the ‘face coverings’ in question neither protect the wearer nor any who said wearer comes into contact with), so the point becomes what exactly?

60683 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Stuart Anderton, 7, #53 of 1437 🔗

If masks work (which they don’t), then the Covoids can avoid getting infected by wearing one. After all, they like to tell us that masks work.

61311 ▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to Ewan Duffy, #54 of 1437 🔗

Ah, the old vaccine argument! They won’t accept that, sadly.

60721 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Stuart Anderton, 4, #55 of 1437 🔗

They are not “infected”.
You are talking about positive test results from asymptomatic people.
Those positive results are becoming so hard to find that it’s clear the only problem is the insistance on perpetuating pointless lockdown conditions.

61069 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Stuart Anderton, 11, #56 of 1437 🔗

Yes but ths point is, *nobody* is healthy any more, according to them.
You’re either a) dead of Covid b) noticeably ill and therefore dying of Covid or c) a potential, probable, harbourer of the deadly plague whilst showing no symptoms. If you’re alive, you’re a *risk*.

It’s batshit crazy. The funniest thing is when you go do something which actually WOULD be risky if you were in fact ill. Like giving blood. They are perfectly happy for me to go and give my two pints, two pints which will go into a little premature baby in my case – but I can only do so if I wear a mask. They want my blood – because it’s the ichor of the Gods. And yet, apparently I’m a biohazard. Surely if I’m a biohazard the LAST thing I should be doing is giving blood?

So tell me, am I healthy, or not?

61707 ▶▶▶ Julian S, replying to Farinances, #57 of 1437 🔗

You, like me are probably O- and never had cytomegalovirus?

Schrödinger’s blood donors?

60420 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #58 of 1437 🔗

The home-working revolution will derail the middle-class gravy train AND COMMENTS

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/22/home-working-revolution-will-derail-middle-class-gravy-train/

60773 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #59 of 1437 🔗

The article’s headline:

The home-working revolution will derail the middle-class gravy train Complacent office workers don’t realise that their jobs can now be done by anyone, anywhere in the world

Here’s a recent comment. What do people think of the hypothesis?

Yes people are going to love getting up in the middle of the night in Australia to clock on in England….
The future holds the demise of the control structure. Your house will generate power, small scale hydroponics means it will feed you. You wont need so much money. You wont need to work such long hours. Big corps spread across the planet are also useless, small scale manufacturing will take over. This is what they are scared of. You wont need big government, banks and global corps. They are dinosaurs. This is why they are getting big on taking away your freedoms and trying to make you part of a grid. It wont stop it

60937 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, #60 of 1437 🔗

Hmmm. Not sure about that scenario.

61188 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #61 of 1437 🔗

“Off the grid!”
This was the battle cry of the sixties and seventies (Whole Earth Catalogue).
Also the Survivalist movement. Maybe that is just in the USA.
It sure is a good start to have more land.
Here is a plan: California, Washington, and Oregon secede from the USA after 2020 election. British Columbia secedes from Canada and joins forces with them to form Cascadia. B.C. is notoriously underpopulated. Brits who want to get off the grid can emigrate to BC and mix it up up there with Left Coasties who want to get away from the former U.S. states and breathe free. Maybe they can start fishing, farming, and pot/hemp cooperatives. They can get some big greenhouses from Holland (as the Russians are doing).

61849 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jane, #62 of 1437 🔗

The Californian government at present is into mandatory vaxxes, Those adversely affected won’t be doing much free breathing.

61298 ▶▶ Richard, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #63 of 1437 🔗

Have worked in the City since 1996, we abandoned our offices in the second week of March. Went back today for the first time – it is shocking the train companies must be bankrupt – less then 10 people in an intercity service.
Some simple maths – most businesses I know are immediately saying 35% don’t need to be back of there other 65% it’s probably 2 days a week ish. So a working population of 500,000 is going to be maybe 60,000 if you really squint. That’s before any additional muzzle wearing madness. The lockdown killed my business but even going back at a very senior level into a corporate has never even contemplated being there five day’s a week.
Pretty much everything closed apart from Pret and some Turkish. Only people in are receptionists/security and premises. The lloyds insurance trading floor still closed – I think that’S the only year in nearly 400 of there not being a physical market operating.
Separately when challenged on not wearing a muzzle on the train and claiming medical expecting – I was presented with a brightly coloured lanyard and badge loudly proclaiming hidden disability – I can not imagine anything more humiliating for anyone suffering from this.

60423 daveyp, replying to daveyp, #64 of 1437 🔗

Affirmative Bowen 77. Bye all!

60466 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to daveyp, #65 of 1437 🔗

?

60562 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to daveyp, #66 of 1437 🔗

?

60424 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 27, #67 of 1437 🔗

An update

Five days out now

Day 1 A trip to the newsagent
Day 2 Waiting for kneel (he still hasn’t turned up, staring to get worried, will check the canal again)
Day 3 The police are a mirage
Day 4 A visit to the seaside

Sundowners

Yesterday evening we sat on the patio of the village rugby club. A group of refuseniks gather each evening to take in the sun. Mine is a pint of cider on ice. It’s BYO, as the club has still not reopened .

Our group gets larger each day. We all take our litter home with us and leave it as pristine as we found it. In an act of defiance we drink from pint glasses that we bring with us (yes women too, it’d that kind of place)

Sat next to me is my partner of 40 years (Jesus, I’ve started doing it, she’s not my bleeding partner, a partner is someone you play cards with, she’s my wife)

Things been cooking round her for a long time. Neolithic axe heads, an iron age hill fort, roman remains and a Norman castle

On the village square the union jack flies next to the war memorial. Three ancient inns front onto the square. None of them have reopened (inside or out), threatening phone calls from the local Stasi soon put paid to that

The then Lord of the Manor gave the land for the rugby club to the villagers in 1882.
He also gave the land for the cricket, tennis, and bowls clubs. His other contributions were the Scouts Hall and a lovely Parish Hall built in 1907, in the Arts and Crafts style

He was a General in the British Army in India (thank god there are no statues to him)
In the Great War he came out of retirement to set up the local red cross hospital for casualties

When he passed on the Scouts lined the funeral route to the 14th century church. Heads bowed resting on their staves

My thoughts drift off. I think about John Owen Jones, my great uncle. He died of his wounds in Flanders in July 1917 aged 24. (funny how they are nearly all great uncles, few living long enough to have children of their own). I visited his grave a few years ago and placed flowers upon it. Possibly the first person ever to do so

His memorial plaque and victory medal sit in a display cabinet at home. They sit next to my late mother and fathers wartime medals. My father used to joke that the war would have ended two years earlier if my mother had not been involved. I wonder what it was like to be a 19 year old on D Day, and resolve to pass on his Legion Du Honnour to our eldest son

Then my thoughts turn to the betrayal and the lying, my feelings spin out of control

“What are you thinking about”

“Nothing”

“Yes you are I can tell”

“No nothing”

Another thought crosses my mind, if he’s shagged everything that’s moved, he’s not likely to stop at us

I am back in the room, and the conversation turns to ice packs, the fact that none of us will give our names in order to go into a pub, and what’s for dinner

Tomorrow: Rishi Sunak sponsors the bowls Club

60874 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to Cecil B, 3, #68 of 1437 🔗

Thank you for such a reflective post; all the best, and have one for me too!

60427 Biker, replying to Biker, 76, #69 of 1437 🔗

The big countdown is on. Less than 24 hours till lift off.
This time tomorrow the mighty England, once ruler of the seven seas, the nation that invented the modern world, who’s art’s, music, science and literature dominates popular culture on nearly all parts of this blue marble will be subjugated, broken, torn apart and rotten.
And most of the English will be just fucking dandy with that.
The country that stood alone against the evil Bosch, who took Africa from the lions and made America have become cowards sitting back watching their country destroyed by outside forces.
With smart phones in hand and masks on their faces
they take their places
in the faceless society.
The mask of the beast on every street and in every home
the sun has set on the empire, it’s gone
With parliament disbanded now an empty building,
haunted and totally ruined
The good ship Albion has hit the rocks
Boudica’s children will wear masks in shops
will it ever stop? I hear some cry
but with a whimper she dies.
No longer the common man under common law
without the heart to fight for
liberty, at any cost
Englands Paradise lost.

60430 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 8, #70 of 1437 🔗

Churchill quote (there’s always a Churchill quote), slightly adapted:

What he [Johnson] has done is to kindle a fire in British hearts, here and all over the world, which will glow long after all traces of the conflagration he has caused in England have been removed. He has lighted a fire which will burn with a steady and consuming flame until the last vestiges of Woke tyranny have been burnt out of Europe, and until the Old World — and the New — can join hands to rebuild the temples of man’s freedom and man’s honour, upon foundations which will not soon or easily be overthrown.

60444 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Biker, 2, #71 of 1437 🔗

Good one

60476 ▶▶ John Smith, replying to Biker, -6, #72 of 1437 🔗

Thought you’d given up posting here?

60837 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Biker, 2, #73 of 1437 🔗

It’s only lost if we don’t stop it, Biker. We must dissent and fight tooth and nail against this.

61122 ▶▶ Christopher, replying to Biker, 8, #74 of 1437 🔗

Spot on Biker but the process of destroying Old Albion has been a hundred years in the making , It is only obvious now due to how brazen the last arch traitors have become
( Blair , Brown , Cameron , May and Johnson ) .
The chaps i work with on site would rather talk about the return of the football and last nights game than talk about resisting our coming enslavement . It’s pathetic what the descendants of the anglo saxons have become.
I hope i am wrong but i don’t see any real hope for Albion.
I am very black pilled right now after an awful journey home from work in central London through the east end to Essex.
Dystopia doesn’t even begin to describe it .
I Need a drink…………………..

61201 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Christopher, 1, #75 of 1437 🔗

I’m in the USA.
I would be interested to read the story of your dreadful train trip.

61257 ▶▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to Jane, 5, #76 of 1437 🔗

I was driving Jane as i am an Electrician and i need to transport my tools to and from work every day and using the tube ( London underground / Metro )
is only a viable option for me if i am on a job longer than a week or more so i can leave the tools on the job.
Agenda 2030 is kicking into gear this week with lots of lane an road closures on the main routes out of London to the east thus compressing all the traffic.
Formerly quick routes in and out of London are being deliberately strangled to punish drivers and put small business’s out of London.
Couple that with all the cameras , speed limit warning signage and constant road changes / closures it makes driving really a traumatic experience.
All this while viewing the masked mind controlled slaves walking the streets and driving through some of my old east end neighbourhoods that now resemble the set from Escape from New York.
Just Horrible

61450 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Christopher, #77 of 1437 🔗

What in the world is Agenda 2030?

61483 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to Jane, 1, #78 of 1437 🔗

UN Charter 2030 The planned destruction of the western world as we know it. It’s happening in the states to , I don’t know if you in a major US city , if you are surely you must have noticed all the masses of high density housing being crammed onto any available land near to any metro line station ? They are trying to force people out of the countryside into highly surveilled gulag tech cities.
Most western nations are signed up to this, see the work of Mark Windows at ” Windows on the World.net ” he lays this out clearly what we are up against and the corona hoax is just one facet of agenda 2030.
Also he now does a weekly show on an American radio station,
RBN Republic Broadcast Network.

61522 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Christopher, replying to Two-Six, #80 of 1437 🔗

Thanks for the link Two-Six . I am not very tech savvy so have difficulty
posting links.
Cheers

61861 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jane, #81 of 1437 🔗

Maybe look up PNAC and Agenda 21 as well.

60431 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #82 of 1437 🔗

Families must choose one member to visit elderly relatives in care homes, Government says

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/22/families-must-choose-one-member-visit-elderly-relatives-care/

60474 ▶▶ wendy, replying to HawkAnalyst, 23, #83 of 1437 🔗

The government guidelines are very detailed and even include a get out that if the care home don’t think it is safe to allow a resident to see family they don’t have to allow visiting. I am hopeful it gives care homes some kind of permission to allow visiting but I am not hopeful of much contact with my dad and I don’t think this will change until the winter Covid deaths do not happen. So very sadly for Dad, me and many other separated families this long time scale will likely mean a resident will die as they come to the end of their life having endured a year of forced separation from family. I remain very sad and very angry.

60493 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to wendy, 11, #84 of 1437 🔗

Just go in anyway. They have no legal grounds to stop you

Quote Section 3 of the Criminal Law Act 1977 which says you can use such reasonable force as is necessary to protect family members

How do you know what’s going on in there unless you go in and check?

60811 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendy, 5, #85 of 1437 🔗

Yes. For a non-existent virus, this really is extremely cruel.

61208 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to wendy, 3, #86 of 1437 🔗

I don’t blame you. It is inhuman.
Why can’t the set aside an area for visiters, like in a prison.
One visit at a time. Then ventilate.
Or, set up little booths. Or something.
If they wanted to solve this problem they could.
These visits will prolong some lives and contribute to seniors’ quality of life. What is the point in being alive if you are stuck in solitary.
Will to live will dissipate.
Many seniors live just to get a glimpse of their grandchildren.
It is very, very cruel.
Where there is a will there is a way.
What has happened to that British Bulldog?

60583 ▶▶ StevieH, replying to HawkAnalyst, #87 of 1437 🔗

This seems to have been “disappeared” from the website. I saw it early this morning, but can’t find it now. Explains the low volume of comments.

60815 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to StevieH, 9, #88 of 1437 🔗

I’ve just accessed it at 14.30.
The comments are angry – and heartbreaking!

Here’s part of one:

Last week my wife and I visited her mother in her care home, the first time my wife had been able to meet with her widowed 86 year old mother in four months, the longest separation by far in her entire life. The arrangements were not ideal (over 4 hours travel for a 25 minute meeting) but were quite safe, socially distant and had a tremendously positive effect on both my wife and mother-in-law. We’re due to visit again on Fri 24 July but…..the new PHE guidance would prevent a similar meeting!
The new PHE guidance seems to be a very misguided, knee-jerk reaction in response to PHE’s earlier failures. My mother-in-law is in a care home, not a prison, and shouldn’t be prevented from seeing her relatives and close friends by these bizarre new guidelines. Care homes themselves are quite capable of managing their own visiting arrangements without interference from PHE. But it appears that PHE is now allowed to effectively control the management of privately owned care homes funded by self-funding residents. This is totally unacceptable and has led to very capable care homes and their residents being badly damaged as a result of PHE policy……

61865 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to StevieH, #89 of 1437 🔗

There at 10:14. But paywalled.

60686 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to HawkAnalyst, 17, #90 of 1437 🔗

I hate this government with all my being.

60715 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #91 of 1437 🔗

And I. I never knew the real meaning of the word until now.

60713 ▶▶ annie, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #92 of 1437 🔗

Face nappy might be useful ere. Who’s to say which family member is behind it?

60805 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #93 of 1437 🔗

Notice how flexible the advice is.

The advice recommends “limiting the numbers of visitors to a single constant visitor per resident, wherever possible”. ….

Relatives will be told to wear face coverings and follow advice on social distancing as much as possible

It will depend on how draconian the carehome gestapo want to make it. What are they going to do – stand watch and guard the door while someone’s visiting?

60825 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #94 of 1437 🔗

Answering my own question, here’s one of the comments to the above:

After allowing tens of thousands of airline passengers into the country since Feb with no checks, the Govt allowed PHE to put infected people into care homes with no checks.
They now have the audacity, now the damage has been done, to pretend we family members are a risk. I am speechless!
I visited my 92 year old mother last week. The care home took my temp and blood oxygen level, made me wear a bib and mask and sit outside 4 metres away from her, whilst insisting that a member of staff watch me all the time ( whilst listening to my muffled conversation) in case I dare embrace my mother.
To top it all. She had the virus 6 weeks ago, felt a bit unwell but was fine within a week.

60834 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #95 of 1437 🔗

The mother of a friend of mine is in a care home. Only one family member allowed to visit, masks required, and they did indeed stand guard during the visit to ensure no contact took place. The very antithesis of caring.

60823 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, 20, #96 of 1437 🔗

Here’s a corker of a reply!

We’ve had elderly genocide, now elder abuse through social isolation and affection deprivation
Cancer patient genocide through withdrawal of medical care
Learning disabled genocide though DNR
And mandatory child abuse through psychological torture (isolation, withdrawal of education, social distancing and muzzling)
Economic terrorism and controlled demolition of small and medium business.
Now Chris Witty admits lockdown wasn’t even needed because the virus was already declining.
Johnson and Hancock should be facing life imprisonment for these crimes against humanity.

60857 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #97 of 1437 🔗

All in the space of 5 months, phenominal.

60878 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #98 of 1437 🔗

Too late, my relative is dead.

61213 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Gtec, #99 of 1437 🔗

That is terrible. Very sorry to read it.

61646 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to HawkAnalyst, #100 of 1437 🔗

Disgusting!

60436 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steeve, 5, #102 of 1437 🔗

Yep, I called this the other day, fa cup final next, football fans will save the day.

To quote bill shankly
Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I don’t like that attitude. I can assure them it is much more serious than that

60511 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Steeve, 9, #103 of 1437 🔗

Excellent, delighted to see it. The hysterical lunatics will be absolutely pissing their pants that they weren’t just gathering and not wearing masks, they were doing that now criminal thing of singing, and talking loudly! How dare they have a good time and enjoy their teams success.

So disappointing to see all the political figures and club spokespeople coming out before the day telling them to celebrate at home and not gather – absolutely pathetic.

60600 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, 6, #104 of 1437 🔗

Yep. That fans gathered in numbers, despite their adored club and adored manager telling them to ‘stay at home’ speaks volumes. Deep down, an awful lot of people know it’s bollox.

Here’s to number 20.

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

60641 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, 5, #105 of 1437 🔗

6 or was it 9 (?) got arrested according to R2 news for “ignoring instructions to stay away and celebrate from home”:
so that’s another new law is it ?

60720 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to karenovirus, 1, #106 of 1437 🔗

Probably Everton supporters

61354 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, #107 of 1437 🔗

🙂 Not bitter, not at all.

I saw a great clip yesterday where someone doorstepped Everton names of the past – Peter Reid, Tony Cottee, etc., asking if they wanted to pass on congratulations to LFC. Cottee’s response was almost entirely bleeped out.

61343 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, #108 of 1437 🔗

Sadly, they did put a “dispersal zone” in place, so probably legit.

60758 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to JohnB, #109 of 1437 🔗

Disappointed to see some masks. But, hey, you can’t have everything.

61337 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella, #110 of 1437 🔗

I was too. Doubt there’d be many left by 3 in the morning though. 🙂

60798 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Steeve, 3, #111 of 1437 🔗

wish i was in liverpool – i would have joined them even though i don’t like football! 🙂

60842 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steeve, #112 of 1437 🔗

Now that’s setting an excellent example!

60434 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #113 of 1437 🔗

McDonald’s reopens 700 stores for dine in – see if your local restaurant is on the list – Mirror Online

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/breaking-mcdonalds-reopens-700-stores-22395428

60441 ▶▶ MDH, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #114 of 1437 🔗

Well, according to the Telegraph, they’ll have to shut them tomorrow. So which story is true?

60608 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to HawkAnalyst, #115 of 1437 🔗

Why ?

61218 ▶▶ Jane, replying to HawkAnalyst, #116 of 1437 🔗

I guess maybe that is good news, but not really for those who are serious about building up their own immune via healthy eating, lifestyle, etc.

60437 Cecil B, 4, #117 of 1437 🔗

So they caught it in hospital. Who knew? An exercise in creative accounting if ever there was one

Who’s clapping now?

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-coronavirus-infections-deaths-transmission-18642170?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

60438 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 30, #118 of 1437 🔗

Matt Hancock will spend billions on a track-and-trace system that is about as effective as two tin cans connected by a piece of string

I’m sorry, but two tin cans connected by a piece of string actually works, as opposed to this tracking system.

60468 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #119 of 1437 🔗

And no government will ever be able to say they can prove whether their T&T system works or not, because they are created to preserve the users’ privacy by not to creating a centralised record! Although they’ll be able to claim what they like, you will always be able to say ‘how can you possibly tell?’.
Germany’s Robert Koch Institute says they can’t at present, and ‘Switzerland has the same issue’.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/technology-53485569

60439 Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 71, #120 of 1437 🔗

I run my family’s small convenience store in the North West. We have no intention of enforcing this ridiculous Mandatory Muzzle Law when it drops tomorrow. I recently tweeted a picture of a poster that I’ve put at the entrance to our store, and the support for our policy has so far been excellent!

https://twitter.com/Scottty87/status/1285674463820906497?s=19

I encourage all small business owners to unite against this fascistic government and their liberty-sapping edicts, simply say NO to the forced muzzling of our valued customers!

60446 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Scotty87, 6, #121 of 1437 🔗

I`d like to visit a sane shop. Where can we find you?

60449 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Scotty87, 7, #122 of 1437 🔗

I would love to visit your shop!

60579 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Scotty87, 6, #123 of 1437 🔗

I’d be there in a shot if I wasn’t in the South West 😪 well done for the sensible approach 👍

60605 ▶▶▶ EllGee, replying to ambwozere, #124 of 1437 🔗

My local shop has the front page of the Daily Mirror pinned up. We won’t shop you.

60624 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Scotty87, 7, #125 of 1437 🔗

Brilliant and well done you. I hope it earns you lots of well deserved additional business. Shame more businesses in the SE don’t take this approach.

60645 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Scotty87, 4, #126 of 1437 🔗

I have a similar nearby store that I visit most days, can’t see them taking any notice.

60868 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, 9, #127 of 1437 🔗

My local shop has been completely laid back and sane throughout the last 4 months. I’m hoping they’ll be the same from tomorrow.

Unfortunately, though the shop is a veritable Aladdin’s cave (they sell everything from cauliflowers to electric fuses), they don’t sell much that I would buy, other than their bacon, eggs and an uninspiring non-organic wine selection.

Still, if they remain sane, I’ll do my best to support them, even if I have to live on bacon, eggs and Yellowtail Malbec for the next few months!

60707 ▶▶ annie, replying to Scotty87, 6, #128 of 1437 🔗

Three big cheers for you!I hope you make a mint!

60831 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Scotty87, 7, #129 of 1437 🔗

It is time for a 21st Century Peasant Revolt.

61232 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to richard riewer, 1, #130 of 1437 🔗

Maybe a pitchfork would be a good symbol for this revolt. Like, pitch the masks, and the bastards, overboard!
Everyone kmows what a pitchfork means.
A fist holding a pitchfork. Running a mask through with its tines.
I think that would look quite lovely!

61585 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jane, #131 of 1437 🔗

Draw it up, post it here and distribute it.

60858 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Scotty87, 2, #132 of 1437 🔗

Scotty, that’s awesome.
Pity about the accompanying comments though!

61219 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Scotty87, 1, #133 of 1437 🔗

Good for you!!

61399 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Scotty87, #134 of 1437 🔗

Well done and all the best for tomorrow!

61662 ▶▶ Scotty87, replying to Scotty87, 1, #136 of 1437 🔗

Thank you all for the kind comments. We’re based in Liverpool, I do hope those further afield will all find sensible small businesses to support during this period of abject madness!

60440 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #137 of 1437 🔗

I received back the FOI request from the DHSC about the medical advice prior to the serious and imminent threat declaration being issued.

My original FOI request was to the Government’s legal department and they said this would be too expensive to find so refused the request.

Attached the reply from the DHSC and it is very interesting. The main bit of the reply is a link to this page on the gov.uk website:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/statement-from-the-four-uk-chief-medical-officers-on-novel-coronavirus

Apaprently the information has been in the public domain since 30th January 2020 – I’ve searched the DHSC website a few times prior to submitting the request and could never find this webpage or announcement and it was not linked to on the serious and imminenet threat webpage either.

There is nothing on it to suggest any major threat, just the comment:

the 4 UK Chief Medical Officers consider it prudent for our governments to escalate planning and preparation in case of a more widespread outbreak.

For that reason, we are advising an increase of the UK risk level from low to moderate. This does not mean we think the risk to individuals in the UK has changed at this stage, but that government should plan for all eventualities.”

Nothing scary there and nothing to justify what happened next on February 10th 2020 with the start of The Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020 – which is actually a Statutory Instrument, not an Act of Parliament so the naming is done to confuse you.

60467 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #138 of 1437 🔗

Wayback machine or archive.org may just may help you see if tge page was there or if it changed.

60648 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #139 of 1437 🔗

Which part of the legislation is the Enabling Act, the bit that allows them to make it up as they go along ?

60750 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to karenovirus, 4, #140 of 1437 🔗

Everything is supposed to be under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 with the S.I.s supplementary to this.

The first Coronavirus “Act”, which is now revoked, was on February 10th 2020 with the “serious and imminent threat declaration” which kicked the whole thing off after the Government received the “medical advice” I’ve listed above.

here is the introductory text:

The Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020 (revoked) 2020 No. 129

PUBLIC HEALTH, ENGLAND

Made at 6.50 a.m. on 10th February 2020

Laid before Parliament at 2.30 p.m. on 10th February 2020

Coming into force in accordance with article 1(1)

Article 1 (1):

Citation, commencement and application

1. —(1) These Regulations may be cited as the Health Protection (Coronavirus) Regulations 2020 and come into force immediately after they are made.

As it is a S.I. no Parliamentary oversight or debate required.

I read last week that custom says that Parliament should get 2 weeks to review and discuss but this is not a legal requirement and is not written down anywhere it can be done away with without any consequences.

This first “act” has now been revoked an all the others and following amendments starting about March 26th are the supplementary legislation.

The Government and councils should have been using the Public Health Act to impose operating restrictions onto businesses and to isolate individuals but there are a lot of steps to go through and compensation to be paid but instead they have used psychology, guidelines etc to get you to self isolate voluntarily, put measures in place at your business and so son so no need to follow the long-winded legal process and pay compensation that way.

The new “framework” from Government to councils basically says “from now on, follow the public health act, anything else that crops up will be dealt with by parliament and done properly” or long-winded words to that effect.

61487 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, #141 of 1437 🔗

Thank you, I understand that is why The US avoid the word ‘Quarantine’ as that would similarly involve hoops and Compensation.
Is it just a coincidence that the Govt. has passed even more powers to Local Authorities just as they go on their extended holidays or are they trying to shift the blame ?

60700 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #142 of 1437 🔗

And then in March

Status of COVID-19
As of 19 March 2020, COVID-19 is no longer considered to be a high consequence infectious disease (HCID) in the UK.

The 4 nations public health HCID group made an interim recommendation in January 2020 to classify COVID-19 as an HCID. This was based on consideration of the UK HCID criteria about the virus and the disease with information available during the early stages of the outbreak. Now that more is known about COVID-19, the public health bodies in the UK have reviewed the most up to date information about COVID-19 against the UK HCID criteria. They have determined that several features have now changed; in particular, more information is available about mortality rates (low overall), and there is now greater clinical awareness and a specific and sensitive laboratory test, the availability of which continues to increase.

The Advisory Committee on Dangerous Pathogens (ACDP) is also of the opinion that COVID-19 should no longer be classified as an HCID.

60706 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #143 of 1437 🔗

Then they instigated lockdown and now at the end of July mandatory masks.

61496 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella Donna, #144 of 1437 🔗

I thought they downgraded Covid from HCID to avoid legal complications of that status.

60442 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #145 of 1437 🔗

“To say the least, it will be riveting to see what developments take place on an empire-collapsing and/or world government level as 2019 ends and 2020 continues heating up as the American Empire is shaken to its core by a gang of saboteurs and infiltrators with fascist tendencies resulting in a further disintegration of democracy and ultimate collapse of the US government if the hollowing out of our traditional institutions is allowed to continue.
And yet as world history shows, old orders must always give way to the new . But what species of ‘new’ will be implemented should be the choice of humanity, and not of those who are determined on the destruction of civilization!”

Originally posted October 12 2019

60615 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #146 of 1437 🔗

American institutions certainly seem to be under sustained attack over the past few month. I know it is always written off as being conspiratorial but it really looks like this is the dawn of the New World Order.

60443 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #147 of 1437 🔗

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/richieallen/episodes/2020-07-22T11_18_32-07_00

Simon Dolan interview from yesterday. Starts about ten minutes in. Good to hear.

60881 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 2, #148 of 1437 🔗

Neil Oliver says, basically: Comedy is currently impotent.
We desperately need irreverence in comedy.

Depressingly true! Thank goodness for Andrew Lawrence.

61593 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, 1, #149 of 1437 🔗

21 MINUTES IN. LISTENING RIGHT NOW.

60445 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 27, #150 of 1437 🔗

If I fill up my car with petrol and then go to pay in the kiosk (=shop?) without a mask, will they let me in

In answer to the question, probably not unless you are wearing a mask. I saw people filling up and then putting mask on to pay and then taking it off outside.

Me being me I thought I would deliberately pay in the kiosk without.

I was ordered to wear a mask and was pointed to a table in the corner on which was a pile of masks that had been sitting there for God knows how long attracting dust and germs and ordered to wear one.

Needless to say I refused as I am medically exempt and then had to listen to the lady launch into a rant about people faking symptoms blah blah.

The charade took about 5 minutes when all I had to do was walk in and touch my card to pay contactless (I do normally pay cash but wanted to avoid a confrontation which I had anyway).

60539 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 2, #151 of 1437 🔗

Good for you.

60818 ▶▶ Marvin42, replying to stefarm, -2, #152 of 1437 🔗

I have started to use the Shell App – you can fill up and it is automatically paid for (via your phone) – no need to go into the shop anymore – think you can also get such an App for Esso and BP.

60884 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Marvin42, 6, #153 of 1437 🔗

Another nail in the coffin of cash.

60447 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 45, #154 of 1437 🔗

Good day yesterday on training course. Everyone a sceptic – delegates and staff – and a few people wanted a badge so pointed them towards e-bay and Two-Six.

We even managed to convince a lecturer that the virus was nowhere near as dangerous as she taught and put her mind at rest on why we couldn’t be arsed with the social distancing and a she’s ex-military is going to look into the 77th as she says the British Army should not be at war with their own population.

One guy was telling us the stories he had from his girlfriend who works in a care home (they only had 2 deaths “with” the virus then refused to take patients from hospitals) and how GPs would not come out and refused point blank to attend any patient, ambulances were refused by 999 and hospitals refused to take patients no matter what they had wrong with them so the staff had to treat them the best they could.

General consensus is it’s all a scam, government policy was to deliberately kill off the old and sick, it’s gone, positive tests mean nothing, sanctimonious wanker mask wearers are going to get a hiding, everyone on the course has an exemption – either distress or harm – someone else is calling the shots and our lot just following orders and the questions who? and why? were asked a lot but no answers as yet.

Driving back through Norwich 25 mins in traffic and only one face mask seen and that was by a late 20 something and it matches their outfit so was a fashion statement. Pub gardens full, no social distancing, no masks.

60448 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #155 of 1437 🔗

I really get the feeling that if the bastards dropped all the stupid rules and masks things would instantly look way more normal across the board.

60451 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Two-Six, 17, #156 of 1437 🔗

They wouldn’t look normal, things would be normal.

60888 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, #157 of 1437 🔗

That’s the point!

60485 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #158 of 1437 🔗

The care home accounts keep getting sadder by the day

60891 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, #159 of 1437 🔗

And these people have been paid a pittance to try and mitigate the effects on the vulnerable of deliberate government policy.

60486 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 22, #160 of 1437 🔗

Great post. It gave me a vision of masks been a handy way to stop loose teeth from being lost during a scuffle.

Simon Dolan yesterday in the Allen Show radio interview suggested there is a silent majority of reasonable people seeing through the fearing and mandatory measures. I think Simon Dolan is correct. Talking to people we din’t know is a way to raise awareness of our majority.

60526 ▶▶▶ EllGee, replying to Basics, #161 of 1437 🔗

Or they talk to us. Mablethorpe last weekend and it was busy. Donkeys on the beach, sun shining, positively normal. I said to a shop owner how busy it was and her reaction was..not after Friday. Folk will come to the beach but not into town. The Government & their experts sit in the London Bubble and haven’t a clue what happens in the rest of the country. We only have a four month season at best, probably finished now. The next day got talking to an elderly lady (was admiring her dog) and she told me that she thought the mask thingy that was happening at the weekend was “very silly” now. There are a lot of us out there

60540 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Basics, 12, #162 of 1437 🔗

Yes, that’s our impression too – we keep talking to people as much as possible. OH and I have been pleasantly surprised by how many people seem to get that it’s a scam. These include even older people living on their own who only get MSM fear-porn day-in, day-out.

In our experience it’s middle-class people on furlough, well-heeled pensioners (some with a legitimate health reason at first but surely not now) and silly woke youngsters being dictated to by social media who are the most zealous to buy-in. Oh and jobsworth little Hitlers of course like Awkward Git’s petrol station sparkler!

By the way, if you’ve ordered a badge from 2-6 etc, while you’re waiting for it, you can tide yourself over with a free downloadable one from bus companies, TfL and Asthma UK plus many more.

61249 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Basics, 1, #163 of 1437 🔗

This is a must-read from Dr. Michael Osterholm, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the U of Minnesota. Very high profile institute, and he is universally respected. Below is a link to his podcast from June 3 (transcript), a special podcast on mask wearing. Obviously he prepared this document carefully in advance because, as he acknowledges, there is a lot of peer and political pressure out there to “fit the intelligence to the policy” (my words).

He goes through the history of the mask wearing thing since ca. February. Comes down hard on MASKS4ALL as a misinformation campaign; on the New York Times for disseminating this wrong info; on the CDC for “documenting” their mandates with ropy evidence that does not show what they say it shows; etc.
And states clearly that cloth and surgical masks don’t protect anyone, neither source nor recipient.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/special_episode_masks_6.2.20_0.pdf

61283 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Jane, #164 of 1437 🔗

Unfortunately, he has trimmed a bit since then, possibly because of a wrangle with the well-dodgy Masks4All crew:

Again, I want to make it very clear that I support the use of cloth face coverings by the general public. I wear one myself on the limited occasions I’m out in public. In areas where face coverings are mandated, I expect the public to follow the mandate and wear them.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/07/commentary-my-views-cloth-face-coverings-public-preventing-covid-19

61456 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #165 of 1437 🔗

I saw this and I think the relevant phrase here is “I expect the public to **follow the mandate** and wear them.” Obviously he has to be careful within the political context. But the logic is quite circular.

Earlier he stated that of course once the CDC issues their guideline, which he stated quite clearly was dodgy, local entities had little choice but to go along with it. He also stated clearly that scientists are coming under pressure, including peer pressure. Why should he be excluded from that? He is caught in the same trap. Now he is basically admitting that he also has to go along with the mandate to avoid trouible—maybe even losing his job.

He walks a fine line.I think the situ is obvious to all who actually follow his posts—he has to recant enough to stay in business. Just as he followed the posts of the CDC, etc. To me this constant posistion changing, when there has been no change in the scientific data and it remains clear, is just more evidence that the mask wearing is part of a political, not a medical, agenda.

60886 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #166 of 1437 🔗

Good work AG and allies.

60450 ChrisW, replying to ChrisW, 26, #167 of 1437 🔗

Postcard from Aldeburgh

It was my wife’s birthday yesterday and we went for a day at the coast. Aldeburgh was pretty busy and the first thing we noticed was the massive queue for the fish & chip shop. Luckily we’d bought our own lunch.

There were a few mask wearers about but they were in the minority. Why would you were a mask outdoors on a sunny day?

I wanted some beer from the Adnams shop. I wandered in and was told they were full (only 4 people in there) and should wait outside. Almost thought “sod it” but I waited until some customers had left and then was allowed in. Was told to use the hand sanitiser. I got in trouble for picking up some beers and then changing my mind – had to put them on the floor by the till so they could presumably be quarantined.

Normally I love beer shopping but this didn’t feel enjoyable at all. If I’d had to wear a mask as well it would be unbearable. So I’m not visiting any more shops until all these stupid measures have been removed.

Oh and today I’m suffering a bit from sunburn!

60722 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to ChrisW, 6, #168 of 1437 🔗

Oh God no, I would’ve walked out.

60452 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #169 of 1437 🔗

Theme tune suggestion for tomorrow: Submission by the Sex Pistols

60455 ▶▶ MDH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #170 of 1437 🔗

“I’m on a submarine mission with you baby, I can’t get enough of your watery love…”

60453 mjr, replying to mjr, 39, #171 of 1437 🔗

From Toby’s summary
“Finally, NHS workers with beards have been asked to shave them off because if they don’t their masks won’t work, according to the Nursing Times . Does this mean the Government will soon slap a ban on beards, with police empowered to issue on-the-spot fines? Won’t go down well in Hoxton.”

Seriously – with the number of Sikh and Muslims employees within the NHS who have beards for religious or cultural reasons, this should be interesting. Are they going to make it compulsory? Will there be religious exemptions? Whole can of worms being opened here. Are they seriously going to ask a Sikh or a muslim with a 10inch beard to shave it off? Good luck with that one!!!

60484 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mjr, 8, #172 of 1437 🔗

Agree. Wait till we get to mandatory vaccines.

60728 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #173 of 1437 🔗

Not me, they can take a hike off a tall building.

60845 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #174 of 1437 🔗

With no safety net.

60509 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, 11, #175 of 1437 🔗

Noticed a mask perched on top of one fulsome beard yesterday one of the sughts of 2020. Completely useless – I know clean shaven masks are useless to – this was an extra level.

Also there is a fine, fine thing I notice around town. Asian muslim establishments are not washed of brain. They are free with facial expression and use of oxygen clearly more important than observing silly little politicians diktats. Really something to admire. Perhaps it is illustrative of a divide already present. Its a cultural duversity that is most enjoyable.

60521 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 5, #176 of 1437 🔗

just the usual “your rules dont apply to us… ” attitude that the authorities ignore because they dont want to be accused of racism

60537 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to mjr, -6, #177 of 1437 🔗

Perleeese!!

Whiny little Englander stuff isn’t what will counter the stamp of jackboots.

60555 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, 10, #178 of 1437 🔗

not at all.. there are many examples of people going their own way. I am happy that they are visibly treating these rules with disdain – as i am T he main criticism is regarding how the authorities generally deal with differing cultures but if this means these breaches will be overlooked and it makes the rest of the population also ignore them then all the better

60894 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 1, #179 of 1437 🔗

TROLL ALERT!

60541 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, 8, #180 of 1437 🔗

I think its fair to say these rules shouldn’t apply to any of us.
Speaking with three separate shops who I regard as friends the attitude is no dufferent to mine – its effing nuts to wear masks and lockup etc. Not an attitude of superiority. I’m impressed by the unassuming confidence to say bollocks to bad laws. I am sure there will be other muslims with all kinds of attitudes. It is noticable as I say how dispersed muslim businesses are acting as skeptics. I’m not talking a particular area – this is city wide. It’s truly good.

60702 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, 3, #181 of 1437 🔗

But they do want to be accused of discriminating against the disabled and inciting violence against them?

60725 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mjr, #182 of 1437 🔗

Yeh right I can see that happening, they’ll be given a special dispensation!

60795 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #183 of 1437 🔗

And if they have exemptions saying masks won’t work with beards then what’s the point of anyone else wearing them either?

60804 ▶▶ Sue, replying to mjr, 2, #184 of 1437 🔗

i doubt they would ask those who have beards on religious/culturaal grounds to remove them – they’ll be exempt i suspect. it’ll probably be like sikhs don’t have to wear a helmet on a bike if have a turban on.

60974 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to mjr, #185 of 1437 🔗

Doesn’t this beg the question, what have they been doing for the last century or so? If you’ve had an op or procedure done by a surgeon or consultant with a beard have they been negligent in their PPE all this time?

61250 ▶▶ Jane, replying to mjr, #186 of 1437 🔗

Who will be there to record these encounters and tweet them out?

60456 James Bertram, replying to James Bertram, 18, #187 of 1437 🔗

I’ve already leafleted my local shops pointing out that they are under no obligation to enforce the nappy-law (it is the customer’s liability only); and that a customer does not have to give the shopkeeper any explanation, nor provide any evidence for ‘reasonable excuse’, not to wear a face mask (too, you can ‘self-certify’ – so no need to bother our busy doctors if you want to provide medical exemption).
More subversively, I’m considering stickering any Covid-Nazi shop-posters ‘refusing entry without a mask’ with a yellow star – I expect those of us who had family fighting in the 2nd World War will get the point. (You can get these at a stationary store; or make your own from sticky white labels, paint with yellow acrylic).
Add comment

60462 ▶▶ TJN, replying to James Bertram, 6, #188 of 1437 🔗

Ok up to yellow star bit – I wouldn’t do that. Maybe instead a ‘Not all disabilities are visible’ sticker.

60464 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TJN, 1, #189 of 1437 🔗

How about a Swastika

60488 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Two-Six, 3, #190 of 1437 🔗

Well that may be in breach of Godwin’s Law?

60496 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to TJN, 3, #191 of 1437 🔗

From wikipedia:
Godwin’s law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship , fallaciously miscasting an opponent’s argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. [10] Mike Godwin himself has also criticized the overapplication of Godwin’s law… “I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust .”

The yellow star (in this case not with a ‘J’ on it) is a reminder of the Holocaust, how the Nazi’s came to power, and how the German people allowed it – “ “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke.

This is what our families fought for – to keep the country free from the evils of a dictatorship.

60524 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to James Bertram, 2, #192 of 1437 🔗

I am thinking along the lines of a poster with a masked human and the words: “Face Of Fascism 2020”

Perhaps plaster all the mask-Nazi shops with those instead?

61255 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Nick Rose, #193 of 1437 🔗

I still like the pitchfork idea . . .

60637 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to James Bertram, 4, #194 of 1437 🔗

My allusion to Godwin’s Law was a somewhat flippant comment! Clearly there are some situations in which the comparison is apt.

Everyone knows that the Nazis were bad, but not everyone realises that they rose largely out of the ashes of a destroyed economy. Which is where we are heading of course. My fear is that Nazi analogies may become far more apt than hey are now.

60591 ▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Two-Six, #195 of 1437 🔗

Perhaps a sticker with ‘Heil’ on it?

Or one with ‘V’ or ‘Victory’ on it? (too subtle, perhaps?)

61518 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to James Bertram, 1, #196 of 1437 🔗

‘V’ easily done and universally understood.

60477 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to TJN, 12, #197 of 1437 🔗

Hi, TJN:
It’s not about disabilities; it’s about civil liberties.
Many of our families fought against the Nazis so that our country could be free – it would be a betrayal of what they stood for to meekly accept these diktacts from shopkeepers and government.

60487 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to James Bertram, 5, #198 of 1437 🔗

Hi James,

Yes, I agree entirely with your reply. But it’s my feeling that Star of David analogies are something we should be careful of. What those people went through is beyond compare.

60505 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to TJN, 2, #199 of 1437 🔗

Yes, understand your sensitivities to this, TJN. It takes some thinking through, and I can see that if they don’t then people might misinterpret it, and Jewish people might see it as an insult to their sufferings to adopt this as a protest symbol too lightly.
Has anyone a better idea on how to make this Civil Liberties point without giving offence to those who have suffered?

60631 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to James Bertram, 2, #200 of 1437 🔗

Yes, I think you’ve captured my thoughts on this – I’m not Jewish but I wonder if some Jews might find the allusion distressing. I feel as if we have a winning hand here, on the muzzles business, and that the next step is to get more people on side, until we reach a critical mass of civil disobedience.

I can also understand why some shops might feel in a bit of a bind, not being able to keep everyone happy (e.g. lots of unmuzzled customers may irritate the muzzles), and therefore they feel the need to tread a fine line.

60841 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to James Bertram, 1, #201 of 1437 🔗

I should have said, well done for leafleting those shops.

61325 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to TJN, #202 of 1437 🔗

Thanks, TJN. Leafleting the shops might have done the trick. Had a friendly word at both Sainsbury’s and the Co-op locally today about not wearing a mask – said I won’t be wearing a mask and gave no reason why – but both indicated they wouldn’t be bothering customers on this.

61340 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to James Bertram, #203 of 1437 🔗

Had a similar thing at two independent shops near me this morning. Seemed surprised I even asked. Clearly they don’t give a toss.

61259 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to James Bertram, #204 of 1437 🔗

Might be a major distraction requiring much too much explaination and a detour into the twilight zone.
I would come up with your own symbol.
Angry pitchfork still available!! People’s revolt against the PTB.

60535 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to TJN, 3, #205 of 1437 🔗

… although this is the way it started.

60975 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, #206 of 1437 🔗

I suspect some people will just wonder if the shop owners are Jews and miss the point completely – or it could trigger another, unintended, problem.

60498 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to TJN, 5, #207 of 1437 🔗

I made an allusion to my MP that science shows (to the same level as face masks!) that people with big noses spread more droplets than small nose people. Therefore shouldn’t – for the common good – all big nose people be segregated to their own communes.

The only real way to get this reversed is to only shop where face masks are not enforced – and shop online otherwise. If it hits shops hard enough – it will have to be reversed.

60733 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Gerry Mandarin, #208 of 1437 🔗

LOL. Another excellent idea.

60808 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to TJN, 1, #209 of 1437 🔗

Not powerful enough. The star is a massive statement. It reminds us how brutal and violent totalitarianism is. Your suggestion is fine but it isn’t defiant. It doesn’t say beware: this is just the beginning. The discrimination will grow expansively.

60852 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bella, 7, #210 of 1437 🔗

Yes, but the problem isn’t the shops, or even the masks or lockdown. It’s a Parliament that has done sweet FA to prevent, question or even comment on this. I can’t goad my own MP into making any comments on muzzles, in favour or against. He has said and done nothing, just sat on a fence (a very comfortable one, as I understand it, down here in Devon).

Fundamentally, it’s Parliament and MPs who are the problem. The MSM are chaff. Shops are in the cross fire.

And without Parliament we have executive totalitarianism – prats like Hancock making up decrees on the hoof which we are all supposed to adhere to. If anyone needs marking up it’s our MPs.

60982 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #211 of 1437 🔗

I think we would have to wear the stars, not stick them on shops where they could be badly misinterpreted.

60457 Gerry Mandarin, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 8, #212 of 1437 🔗

Heard on the radio that face masks are mandated to pick up a take away. Like that’s going to happen at the local kebab shop

60475 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 9, #213 of 1437 🔗

Progress, the customers are now more deadly than the donner. As our host has pointed out you probably wake up next morning with most of the vague symptoms.

60458 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 17, #214 of 1437 🔗

I’m surprised people are making face nappies out of t shirts when you can make two out of every old bra. (My husband is the model -not that either of us are wearing muzzles)

60460 ▶▶ mjr, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 26, #215 of 1437 🔗

im sorry but he looks like a right tit

60461 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 7, #216 of 1437 🔗

or left , cant really tell

60465 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to mjr, 1, #217 of 1437 🔗

It is the right!

60527 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #218 of 1437 🔗

Comment deleted!!!!!!!

60738 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mjr, #219 of 1437 🔗

Not it’s a right one!

61260 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to mjr, #220 of 1437 🔗

Ha ha!
Seriously, that is the problem with the new “molded” brassieres.
What happened to the decent M&S cotton models?
Showing my age, I guess. When I lived in jolly old England . . .

60472 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #221 of 1437 🔗

Readers wives

60483 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #222 of 1437 🔗

Just shown Mr TT. He said he was just thinking this earlier, so we could have either a his and hers or indeed, a shared couple version (the youngsters might want to take note as they are no longer allowed to be in close proximity to each other!)

61263 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #223 of 1437 🔗

And perfect solution for Siamese twins . . .

60497 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #224 of 1437 🔗

You haven’t read the advice have you?. There is no need to cover your eyes

60501 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cecil B, 2, #225 of 1437 🔗

That’s next week

60507 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cecil B, #226 of 1437 🔗

only if you are looking at the picture

60812 ▶▶ Sue, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #227 of 1437 🔗

i tried that but my tits are of generous proportions and the cup too large for my face! 🙂 i thought in a dire emergency i could take my bra off and shove it on my face – would get a few looks i imagine (but think i’m past caring what people think of me frankly!)

61584 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Cheezilla, #229 of 1437 🔗

love it – get one of those bras and stick on my snout – would be highly amusing! i think the trick is to wear something that kindof meets the requirements but is so blazenly anti or provocative just to wind people up! 🙂

60459 Nigel Sherratt, 8, #230 of 1437 🔗

Professor Carl Heneghan’s Spectator article linked in ‘Round-up’ is excellent, thanks. ‘Even in a purely hypothetical situation that the virus is not circulating, a test specificity of 99.9 per cent would be associated with an expected number of positive tests that is approximately equal to what we observed over the entire study period.’ (ONS)

60470 Telpin, 21, #231 of 1437 🔗

Re masks, just watched this excellent unherd interview with Carl H and another Oxford scientist calmly presenting why there’s no evidence that masks outside a clinical setting are effective. But most notable is what they say about the inability to test this theory now – as the cases of Co Vid in population are so low, would have to test many, many thousands. So, Why are we still calling this a killer virus? As we all know, there’s no doubt now the crisis is of our own making and a lie. The Emperor has been naked for a while – and he’s still starkers. Just don’t understand why others cannot see it and most importantly, why MSM isn’t reporting it.

https://twitter.com/bristolbeing/status/1286181014772080642?s=12

60471 mjr, replying to mjr, 7, #232 of 1437 🔗

excerpt from email from local council (on the mail list due to previous bins issue)

From this Friday (24 July), you must follow the government’s guidelines and wear a face covering in shops, supermarkets, public transport and hospitals.
Additionally, we are making it mandatory for everyone visiting  Libraries to wear a face covering.
This is for your safety and that of our staff. A face covering may protect others and helps to reduce the spread of coronavirus .
Librarie s are open but with reduced opening hours.
Here’s a reminder of what you need to know when visiting:
😷 Wear a face covering
👐 Use the hand sanitiser unit at the entrance to each library
↔️ Follow the directional signage for social distancing
📚 Only return, browse & borrow books
🕑 Keep your visit to around 15 min, to ensure everyone has a chance to access the service
❌ The use of public computers, printing, photocopying and all Council First Point services will NOT be available
Reminder – wear face masks in shops and supermarkets from Friday From Friday 24 July, it will be mandatory to wear a face covering when:

  • in supermarkets and shops
  • using public transport
  • visiting a hospital

Remember to wash or sanitise your hands when putting on, or removing your face covering. Disposable face covers need to be bagged and placed in your waste bin – NOT in your recycling bin! Reusable face coverings should be washed regularly.
Exemptions include young children, people with breathing difficulties and people living with a disability.

Why am i imagining a dalek saying “exterminate!”
they do provide a link to the government guidelines so people could see the “cause distress” exemption get out but how many will read that!

60695 ▶▶ annie, replying to mjr, 2, #233 of 1437 🔗

Ignore the effin’ lot.

60743 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mjr, 5, #234 of 1437 🔗

I’ve already had a row with our library and won’t be using it ever again. Besides if you cannot browse what is the bloody point!

61017 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #235 of 1437 🔗

Keep your visit to around 15 min, to ensure everyone has a chance to access the service

Like people are going to be queuing up in droves!

61403 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #236 of 1437 🔗

I think people will just boycott their libraries as well and just buy books off Amazon.

61011 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 2, #237 of 1437 🔗

If people are putting paper masks in their recycling bin, it means the entire lorry-load will have to go to landfill.

This is the sort of public service info that could usefully be broadcast!

60473 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 3, #238 of 1437 🔗

The half wit is going to Scotland today. Lets hope he fecking stays there

60494 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 2, #239 of 1437 🔗

Is it a ruse? Is he going to fly from Prestwick to a country with no extradition agreement with the UK?

61657 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cecil B, #240 of 1437 🔗

Which one?

60735 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to stefarm, 1, #242 of 1437 🔗

Don’t confuse us all with actual facts or we might start to question the words of the Almighty which would be heresy.

61435 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to stefarm, #243 of 1437 🔗

HSE did a study back in 2008 and found surgical masks allowed ‘flu virus through, they only had a decent reduction with proper respirators: https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrhtm/rr619.htm but hen again, why would the government even think about considering research by their own Health and Safety Executive?

60480 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #244 of 1437 🔗

In a previous BBC interview, I noticed the interviewer was desperate to get Lord Sumption to admit he had broken lockdown rules – which he declined to do at that time.

I suspect that they have a plan to discredit him with headlines if he does admit to it.

60512 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #245 of 1437 🔗

He has since admitted he has broken some rules as he sees them as absurd.

60534 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #246 of 1437 🔗

Ms Munchetty didn’t like that bit of speaking truth to power!

60481 GreenAcres, #247 of 1437 🔗

Once the Government received the Ferguson model predicting 500k deaths if they did nothing, the die was cast and lockdwon was inevitable. Why do i say this?

Let’s imagine two scenario’s:

(a) The government had not done lock-down and deaths were 60k but the nhs functioned normally and the peak came and went – just like in Sweden. They still made the fuckups with the care homes and they still cancelled non-lifesaving operations as a precaution.

(b) The government acted as it has, followed the model and we have 45k deaths + the fuckups + the backlog due to cancelled operations.

Now we get to the public enquiry.

In scenario A the government are responsible for 30k deaths because they didn’t lock down when advised – even thought the total is 85% less than that predicted by the mode. For evidence of this I submit that there are already attempts to pin the ‘one week’ delay between getting the SAGE advice and implementing lockdown on them for us having a high death count – imagine the pressure had we not locked down at all.

In Scenario B the government can reasonably claim they saved up to 250k lives despite the discredited model because they locked down, but they did so ‘reluctantly’ and with a ‘heavy heart’ for our freedoms in order to ‘save lives’.

So you see it was inevitable. Government killing it’s own citizens vs heroically saving lives. There was only ever one choice once they got that model whether it is bollocks or not, it is the impression that counts not the facts, particularly when you have a rabid left-wing press out to crucify you at any opportunity.

60482 karenovirus, 21, #248 of 1437 🔗

I showed my ‘Diabilty Mask Exempt’ card to a woman whose Asperger daughter and Learning Difficulties son aree very worried about wearing masks. She immediately ordered 3 from Amazon, one each & a spare.

60489 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #249 of 1437 🔗

I recall reading somewhere yesterday that the secret Joint Biosecurity Centre, set to take over all of SAGE’s activities, will report into the government via Dido Harding. Does anyone know if that is that true?

60490 MDH, replying to MDH, 28, #251 of 1437 🔗

Oh FFS. Even the Covid tracker app is showing a drop in cases nationally to below 1,900 a day. Why is this torture continuing? I am really ready to break. I’m wasting hours to sheer anxiety.

60492 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to MDH, 4, #252 of 1437 🔗

As far as I can see they are now aiming for complete eradication, so it won’t be ending any time soon.

60502 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #253 of 1437 🔗

Since the eradication idea is a nonsense … you can work out the implications for timescales.

60531 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to RickH, 8, #254 of 1437 🔗

The Spectator article linked in ‘Round-Up’ shows that there will always be false positives so elimination is impossible. It also shows that all the current positives are likely false.

60495 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to MDH, 13, #255 of 1437 🔗

You and many many others feel like this too. Its just that we are all so compartmentalised now we wouldn’t know that. GO NOW and do something nice today. Go for a walk or a cycle, do some gardening, sit in the park and have a pic-nik.

Try to find some faith that the people will work this one out for themselves eventually and that the bastards who have done this too us will be pilloried in the near future. Look forward to this and being on the right side of truth, justice and liberty.

These bastards can’t stop the time.

60510 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Two-Six, 18, #256 of 1437 🔗

I’m not knocking the idea of ‘Doing something nice’ – but the problem with this induced situation is that it has little to do with temporary alleviation – even if that helps.

The point is not that I can still, for instance, go for a walk or enjoy our comparatively fortunate situation of having a comfortable house and a good garden and lots of things to do.

No – the point is that I am still in a prison,in a country which has become one large totalitarian entity run by the insane (by normal standards) emulating the Stasi or Brownshirts.

60532 ▶▶▶▶ MDH, replying to RickH, 5, #257 of 1437 🔗

I’m really beyond the point of doing something nice. I’m now at the point that if lamp posts were being repurposed I would very likely be in the crowd cheering. That is a truly frightening thought. This is what we’re being pushed to by these idiots.

60691 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to MDH, 1, #258 of 1437 🔗

In the crowd cheering? I’d be hauling on the rope.
There’s a description in A Tale if Two Cities that used to horrify me. Now I relish it.

60508 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to MDH, 6, #259 of 1437 🔗

Im with you.I cannot see how they can roll back the use of masks.There seems to be no end

60687 ▶▶ annie, replying to MDH, 8, #260 of 1437 🔗

I sympathise. Take a day, or several, completely free from news, even from us. Go out into the country, or anywhere that’s quiet and sane, or if you prefer, just have a lie-in and listen to your favourite music, or watch a favourite dvd, or read a favourite book. Drink p,enty. Eat well. Remember: THEY. hate happiness and enjoyment. So give them what they hate.

60699 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to MDH, 6, #261 of 1437 🔗

My family are, unfortunately, Covoids and assured me that the UK is seeing 20,000 infections a day. I am half thinking of moving house and changing my phone number.

60748 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #262 of 1437 🔗

I don’t blame you I think I would too. I have a sister who didn’t step outside her door for 3 months or more. Her husband does all the shopping, she’s always been a bit of a hypochondriac. I hear she’s booked a holiday abroad so she’s obviously feeling less fearful.

61048 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MDH, #263 of 1437 🔗

Does the app record every sneeze and hungover headache as covid?

60500 RickH, replying to RickH, 5, #264 of 1437 🔗

Meanwhile, in North Korea …”

I jest not … Last night (before reading this), I dreamed I was escaping from North Korea.

The effects of this insanity often emerge symbolically in sleep – as others have noted.

60504 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to RickH, 4, #265 of 1437 🔗

I dream of escaping to North Korea

60543 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Cecil B, 9, #266 of 1437 🔗

personally I`d choose Sweden to escape to.

60577 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to watashi, -2, #267 of 1437 🔗

Yes – much better than becoming a state of the US, given the intention of giving away sovereignty to Trumpland.

60546 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Cecil B, 2, #268 of 1437 🔗

me too

especially since big brother keeps telling us how bad it is over there

60503 steve, 75, #269 of 1437 🔗

I have today decided we do not have democracy in this county.
A local farm shop has been a relative bastion semi painless shopping but this morning all the staff are now masked up zombies.

I asked the girl at the till “are they now making you wear those”

She replied “ we feel hypocritical when everyone else has to”

This sends totally the wrong message. It’s like telling someone it’s safe to go on holiday but you had better wear a bullet proof vest.

The masked up Covidiots just have their fear reinforced and the vicious cycle continues.

Vote time
Thumbs up = the entire parliament (con and lab) have been utter useless shits and this will be a generational lasting economic and social disaster #prayfor_asteroidstrikeonparliament
Thumbs down – “this will be over by christmas”

60513 Bill Hickling, replying to Bill Hickling, 32, #270 of 1437 🔗

E mail to my MP

Dear Tom
We are utterly opposed to the compulsory wearing of masks in shops or elsewhere. This, as with other policies such as the 14 day travel quarantine, may have been useful during the height of the pandemic, but is now in our view a complete overreaction and will serve only to prolong the economic and social damage caused by the lockdown. The level of infections is now so small that there can be no justification for it. The government needs to take steps to restore public confidence.
Yours Sincerely
Bill Hickling/ Helen Holt

60580 ▶▶ Paul M, replying to Bill Hickling, 6, #271 of 1437 🔗

Pinched a bit of that to include in my email to my MP. Sadly the MPs don’t seem to give a stuff. I’d like to say I’d vote against him, but since elections are suspended I doubt he’ll care about that either

60514 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 14, #272 of 1437 🔗

I reckon we should place (imaginary) bets on how long it’ll take before we see some sort of disorder or violence regarding masks, whether in person or in the news. My guess is it’ll be before the weekend is over.

As my mum works for Sainsbury’s, I’m also intrigued to see who snaps first; a customer or member of staff. My money is on some sanctimonious prick of a customer

60517 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to kbeanie, 16, #273 of 1437 🔗

Definitely, supermarket workers are the ones we should be applauding for just getting on with it (no time to spare for sanctimonious TikToking)

60518 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 22, #274 of 1437 🔗

Supermarkets took no time out at all, chucked in some perspex, a few stickers on the floor, made it a nightmare with queuing and the like, but stayed open.

School unions meanwhile, somehow couldn’t find a way to open in 4 months – sod the kids’ education hey!

60525 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mark II, 10, #275 of 1437 🔗

And the fact that no evidence has been found anywhere in the world of a child at school infecting a teacher.

60990 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Mark II, #276 of 1437 🔗

Thats because they get paid regardless whether they teach or not. We need an education voucher scheme…then if pupils are not taught parents dont redeem their voucher and the buggers go unpaid.

60529 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to kbeanie, 4, #277 of 1437 🔗

It happened in France recently – a bus driver was assaulted and later died because he tried to enforce mask-wearing. I know nothing about the perpetrators though, but I guess you were alluding more to the muzzle zealots attacking someone.

60536 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to kbeanie, 1, #278 of 1437 🔗

The number of dispersal orders are rising

60640 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to kbeanie, 12, #279 of 1437 🔗

I’m actually really worried about my mum. She’s 82 and says she won’t wear a mask to shop – she genuinely does feel extreme anxiety. I am worried that she will get lynched in Sainsbury’s by some sanctimonious muzzealot. She doesn’t want to shop online as she likes to get out – she is fit and healthy. I’ve told her what she needs to say, but I’m worried that there are some really nasty people out there that will follow Ms Dick’s insane advice.

My dad is quite deaf and will now be completely unable to understand what people are saying to him as he relies heavily on lip reading. I worry for him too.

60660 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to HelzBelz, 2, #280 of 1437 🔗

Your mother will be fine. She must either ignore them or tell them to go away.

60996 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Victoria, #281 of 1437 🔗

With a few fs and cs in for good measure!

60685 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to HelzBelz, #282 of 1437 🔗

We may need to bet together for safety. Bear it in mind.

60830 ▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to HelzBelz, 4, #283 of 1437 🔗

I had a similar conversation serving a customer in Sainsbury’s today. She had been wearing a mask but took it off and started complaining to me about how warm and uncomfortable it was making her face, so I gave her the talk: “Just don’t bother with it. Here are all the ways in which you can claim to be exempt and Sainsbury’s has no power to enforce the rule, &c.”

She went on to say that she wasn’t worried about employees telling her off but was instead worried about being chased and hounded by gangs of zealots. That, to me, represents an irrational fear of a different kind, but there wasn’t much I could say to convince her that it wouldn’t happen, or that she should take pride in standing up to the muzzle Stasi if it did.

61649 ▶▶▶ IanStaffs, replying to HelzBelz, #284 of 1437 🔗

I’ll chaperone them if they live near Lichfield.

60684 ▶▶ annie, replying to kbeanie, 2, #285 of 1437 🔗

If there’s a y disorder I shall cheer.
I can’t believe I just said that. Ma, a law-abiding citizen – when there was such a thing as a citizen, with a citizen’s rights.I know now how revolutions happen.

60515 mjr, replying to mjr, 13, #286 of 1437 🔗

One has to laugh — Jeremy Kyle show – Dawn Butler is on. Apparently she is on the parliament’s “science and technology” committee. to which i thought wtf. Then in the discussion she said “I am not a scientist….” She also confirmed that mask wearing was for psychological reasons when confronted with info that masks dont stop the virus.

60522 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to mjr, 6, #287 of 1437 🔗

She’s not a scientist? Who knew?

60542 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to mjr, 13, #288 of 1437 🔗

If they admit it is purely psychological then surely should be 100% voluntary regardless?

61280 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Sarigan, 1, #289 of 1437 🔗

Exactly. Even Dr. Osterholm said he wears a mask to shop, but ONLY because it makes others feel better . . .
So, there is NOTHING to it. The mask zealots have nothing to fall back on when informed of the relevant evidence, namely, none for mask wearing.
They double down on guilt-tripping and accusing one of being a Trump supporter. It is incredible.

60547 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 7, #290 of 1437 🔗

If my memory serves, the government have always said masks are for “confidence”.

It’s the “scientists” who suddenly started to claim that masks can stop viruses.

60625 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #291 of 1437 🔗

Correctly remembered.

61281 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to DressageRider, #292 of 1437 🔗

And these are called out by Dr. Osterholm.

60551 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mjr, 5, #293 of 1437 🔗

Psychological reasons my ar&e! The are muzzles, chains, a leash to control us.

61067 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #294 of 1437 🔗

The control IS psychological!

60556 ▶▶ Nel, replying to mjr, #295 of 1437 🔗

What psychological reasons did she state?

60560 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Nel, 4, #296 of 1437 🔗

she is an MP – you expect reasons? none but the assumption was that it was the standard comment that wearing masks makes people feel safe

60516 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 41, #297 of 1437 🔗

Just had a chat with our lovely window cleaner. He’s on our side too and told me he is planning a holiday in September, he knows we are off tomorrow. We talked about muzzle wearing and how it would be compulsory tomorrow. Not for me it won’t, I told him, as I am claiming exemption. He wasn’t aware that there were exemptions, so I put him right. Keep chipping away.
Next, a chat with the very pleasant lady in the PO while she was checking grandson’s passport renewal form. One man muzzled at the next counter and another with what looked like a big rubber fish on his face waiting outside. Again our talk got on to masks and how horrible they were. I said that I had watched a Spanish scientist conducting experiments with masks worn by various people. She rubbed them onto petri dishes and left them for a while. The results were horrific-streptococcus and a whole host of bacteria that I had never heard of. Keep chipping away.
Finally, a response from my MP who tells me that he is making representations on my behalf to the PM regarding the effect that compulsory wearing of masks will have on local businesses. He has also asked the Dept. of Transport for their risk assessments in place for wearing face masks for long periods of time. Have they even done one yet? Keep chipping away.

60523 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Margaret, 10, #298 of 1437 🔗

Good chipping! That is the encouraging noise from an MP I have neard.

61628 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #299 of 1437 🔗

Chipping Camden. Chipping Norton.

60554 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Margaret, 6, #300 of 1437 🔗

That s very positive. My chat with neighbour s window cleaner yesterday (turns out like me he dislikes dishwater coffee so I made him a strong one) was almost the complete opposite. He was only young 20s but seemed to have been completely brainwashed. He and his girlfriend had only just started meeting up again but came home early from a date in nearby pretty riverside theatre town as there were too many people not social distancing ..he said it was just too scary. He seemed to take everything I had to say and discard it. He just wanted to perpetuate the cycle of fear. How can rational intelligent people be so blind to it all? Although he wasn t keeping his distance and didn t sanitise before or after touching the cup I handed him. maybe a chink of hope?

60680 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to watashi, 8, #301 of 1437 🔗

Thus us the cotton wool generation. Never been challenged, never taken any risks, never done a thing for themselves, never been asked to exercise their grey matter,
.
Darwin’s law will thin ’em out.

61007 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to annie, #302 of 1437 🔗

Never left home either lol.

61003 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to watashi, #303 of 1437 🔗

There really is no hope for much of the young…I know…I teach them!

61087 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to watashi, #304 of 1437 🔗

Chink of hope? No he’s just a dope!

61082 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, #305 of 1437 🔗

Gold star for your MP!

60520 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #306 of 1437 🔗

Yes to the mooted People’s Public Inquiry. I will volunteer to be a dogs body and/or gopher with no skills to be able to contribute in the intellectual activities.

For historical purposes if nothing more (and there is so much more) I feel the adults of our world need to put a marker down. A notice to the future that reasonable people did speakout/standup against the tyranny.

60533 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Basics, 2, #307 of 1437 🔗

If needed, I’m a dab hand at photocopying

60544 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cecil B, 2, #308 of 1437 🔗

We make a fine team then – I can carry bundles about. That’s my specialism!

60672 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Basics, 1, #309 of 1437 🔗

I’m good on a keyboard (& can bake cakes)

60704 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #310 of 1437 🔗

I can answer the phone – anything more technically challenging than a phone then I’ll have to go and have a lie down.

61088 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Keen Cook, #311 of 1437 🔗

You’re in!

60530 Cecil B, 8, #312 of 1437 🔗

Was Stalin the last Dictator to advocate a policy of denying food to a large section of the population?

60538 Michel, 14, #313 of 1437 🔗

Just received a message from a friend who’s a hospital nurse in Ethiopia. Her collegues at the Covid ward are treating patients with cough sirop…that’s how lethal this virus is!

60545 mike r, #314 of 1437 🔗

In the Worldometer stats, the UK is reporting 500-800 ish new cases a day. Looking at countries with comparable new cases, they have an order of magnitude lower number of daily deaths. We are also carrying out and order of magnitude more tests. I don’t understand. If the UK is carrying out far more testing, then I would expect us to find more marginal, less severe, cases, and hence have a lower death rate than the other countries. Also, countries with similar daily deaths are reporting many thousands of new cases per day. Are we getting our data wrong, or is everyone else?

60548 JYC, 13, #315 of 1437 🔗

Best wishes to all in England ahead of tomorrow’s mask tyranny. I hope we see more grit and backbone than we managed north of the border.

60549 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 29, #316 of 1437 🔗

Boris should be sectioned! Is there no one in the Establishment that thinks our Human Rights are being trashed? With all the lawyers in politics is there no one to halt this insanity? Are they all in this Scam?

60558 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #317 of 1437 🔗

In my view senior politicians are either in it or think they are. Ordinary MPs don’t seem to have a clue what’s going on. Whatever the level of politician, a totalitarian group-think has them in its grasp.courtesy of SPI-B.and, above them, whoever is really pulling the strings.

With very few exceptions, as we know, it’s the same story in every country. They have even got Trump in a muzzle now.

60669 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #318 of 1437 🔗

Yep, my (Tory) MP is a cretin. When prodded he always emits the same bleat: “I support the government.”

61015 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Simon Dutton, #319 of 1437 🔗

Most new Tory MPs are just Blairite dross.

61092 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #320 of 1437 🔗

He’s paid very handsomely to support them. What do you expect, that he’d act on behalf of his constituents?

60550 Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, 10, #321 of 1437 🔗

I am contacting supermarkets to ask if I can enter their stores with out a mask. I need to get some shopping for my Mom tomorrow so doing this for practical reasons. So far responses in case useful to others. Mark & Spenser’s say everyone will have to wear a mask with no exemptions (even when I challenged with gov exemption reasons) – told me police would be enforcing and fining – very unfriendly! Sainsburys however say came back in minutes on facebook messager with “we won’t be challenging customers without a mask when they enter or when they are in store since they may have a reason not to wear a mask”. Asda can’t and won;t ever be able to answer the question fyi “ Due to the high volume of calls we are currently receiving we are not able to monitor this mailbox at present. We apologise for any inconvenience caused by this” as too busy.

60563 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Laura Gallagher, 14, #322 of 1437 🔗

Spread the word: Boycott M&S. They don’t deserve anyone’s custom with a attitude like that!

60566 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Laura Gallagher, 8, #323 of 1437 🔗

M&S aka Militant & Snobby

Byeeeeee 👋🏻 👋🏻 👋🏻

60572 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Laura Gallagher, 8, #324 of 1437 🔗

You should send M and S Francis Hoar’s tweet (Simon Dolan’s lawyer). Twitter.com@Francis_Hoar.
It makes it clear that if you refuse entry to disabled people you are prima facie liable to them under the equality act. He cites the example of those for whom masks would cause “serious distress”. Even if the person does not tell the shop that they have an exemption, Hoar says it is unlikely to be a defence for the shop. “By the nature of their disability, someone with depression (etc) will be reluctant to tell you about it. Indeed, being asked in itself is likely to exacerbate fear symptoms”
”The only way a shop can avoid the risk of many expensive law suits is to order its staff not in any circumstances to ask why a person is not wearing a mask and not to bar entry if they aren’t”

60576 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Laura Gallagher, 6, #325 of 1437 🔗

Out of my experience of four, I found M&S most “militaristic” during the lockdown, they went as far as physically enforce through mandatory trolleys and “wardens” social distancing in the store (they won’t even let you enter an isle if there were two(? can’t recall exactly) people already there!)… needless to say, I just walked out when I saw how ridiculous they conducted themselves.

I didn’t even bother going into Tesco when I saw that while they had hardly anyone inside, they had a long dense queue outside, when I said to them that there is patently a more significant risk of catching something waiting in a static queue than in a seemingly “abandoned” shop I was told I didn’t have to wait nor go in; well, thanks for telling me the obvious, cretins!

Waitrose were a bit stiff at first, but pretty soon even the staff abandonned PPE for most part (I suspect their policy toward the staff was “if it makes you feel better, wear something,” and hardly any shop floor staff do). Now, I perceive the Waitrose I go to to be on par with Sainsbury Local (or whatever they name them) who so far are the most laid back about this sheer idiocy (ironically, they’re next door to M&S!).

60590 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to IMoz, 6, #326 of 1437 🔗

M&S have been struggling financially for years. This could be the end of the road. I agree with those who say that it’s probably illegal as they will be breaching government guidelines.

60678 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #327 of 1437 🔗

And good riddance.

60610 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to IMoz, 6, #328 of 1437 🔗

M and s have taken a decision to protect their profits by creating a ‘covid-safe’ zone that their main customer demograph can rely upon – this is how it feels to me. The staff were chatty unmasked before mand masks. After mand masks I have not entered because of door staff.

60632 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Basics, 5, #329 of 1437 🔗

Wrong decision. Bye bye M & S.

60581 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Laura Gallagher, 6, #330 of 1437 🔗

On the few occasions I have been into M&S since this lunacy started, one striking thing I have noticed is that the average age of M&S customers is around 20-30 years higher than average age of customers in other supermarkets. Many more muzzles being worn as a result but this could perhaps be why M&S are more militaristic with it all, given the vulnerability of their customer base. Not to mention all the wealthy middle-class Karens that the shop attracts who will want all this rubbish enforced to the hilt. Perhaps a generalisation but M&S definitely has a much more unpleasant vibe than other supermarkets.

61025 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Poppy, #331 of 1437 🔗

Its expensive and older people have more money. Not everyone likes being ripped off though.

60862 ▶▶ Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, 4, #332 of 1437 🔗

Hear back from Waitrose ( We are not required to enforce the face coverings law, nor will we challenge our customers; that responsibility lays with the police.  We will not be asking for proof of exemption from the new face covering requirement”). and Tesco response “ Please be assured our staff will not challenge you about a face mask, this isn’t for Tesco to enforce.” So for now at least I can still shop outside!

61020 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Laura Gallagher, #333 of 1437 🔗

Stuff M and S then…..their cafes are shite anyway.

60552 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 43, #334 of 1437 🔗

Received this morning an E-mail from ‘Bettys’ tea rooms in Harrogate concerning their reopening, Bettys is an institution in Yorkshire and my wife and myself have been patrons for many years.
Here’s my reply:

Thank you for your E-mail. I note with interest that you’re doing your best to accommodate the Government’s ridiculous ‘rules’ regarding social distancing, markers on floor, sanitising etc. but my wife and I will not be coming to Betty’s to be treated as if we have the plague.
We have always enjoyed our visits to your cafe but we will NOT to visiting again until and unless you get back to ‘normal’. Sorry, but that’s the way it is with us and I’m sure we’re not alone.

There is a large and increasing groundswell of opinion that is saying enough is enough with this ridiculous charade. Rather than trying to jump through every evidence free hoop that this government hands down, businesss like yours should be getting together and pushing back. We seem to have reached a position whereby witchcraft and superstition have replaced common sense and logic. I don’t believe that you really think that footprints on the floor will help protect against a non existent killer virus. But they sure as hell will be contributing to the destruction of very many companies, businesss and livelihoods. I ask you? What decent self respecting person wants to pay good money to be treated worse than an untouchable?
Hoping you survive this government induced abolition of our economy but it won’t be with our patronage under current conditions.

Regards,
Harry Hopkins

60561 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #335 of 1437 🔗

Always felt I was being ripped off there, then again it’s a free country,,.. oops no it’s not

Buy a couple of cakes from Gregs, walk into Bettys whilst eating them and ask to be seated. Tell them you won’t eat their food as it could be virused up. Threaten to call the police if they refuse

61031 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Cecil B, #336 of 1437 🔗

They are a rip off I agree.

60650 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Harry hopkins, 14, #337 of 1437 🔗

I wrote something along these lines to my hairdresser who has proudly been e-mailing to advise of the Covid security measures – hazmat suits and face nappies. The terse reply received advised me that if I didn’t want to hear any more from them I should unsubscribe from their mailing list. Better find myself another hairdresser then!

60677 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to HelzBelz, 5, #338 of 1437 🔗

Should be a pleasure! Tell ’em where they can stick their brushes!

61033 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to annie, #339 of 1437 🔗

And their scissors too lol.

61287 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to HelzBelz, #340 of 1437 🔗

Well, n ow I cut my own hair. Much quicker and cheaper. I always had to “fix” the haircut anyhow. It is pretty easy to cut one’s own hair if shoulder length. Especially if one has a bit of a wave.
There are also very good basic instructions out there on how to cut hair. Just get a good-quality pair of hair-cutting scissors.

60664 ▶▶ annie, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #341 of 1437 🔗

Excellent!

61293 ▶▶ Kathryn, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #342 of 1437 🔗

Well said. I am so utterly sick of all these business’s just slavishly following every nonsense that the government puts out, without any apparent thought to the logic of it all, and indeed the impact on their trade. Why on earth do none of them want to push back?
The other week we went out for a meal with friends, where apart from the waitress who was muzzled, all was fairly normal. However a surreal moment occurred when, having ordered drinks from the table, the waitress brought the tray across, but instead of setting our drinks down for us, put the tray on the table and said due to the virus, we would have to pick up our glasses from it ourselves. Completely bonkers, unless of course she had levitated the drinks onto the tray in the first place without handling them herself?? I really despair.
I will not be wearing a mask anywhere at all, already told my hairdresser I couldn’t, which was accepted without issue. And anywhere I have been that wanted to know personal details for ‘track and trace’ have I’m afraid, been given totally erroneous information. They can get stuffed!

60553 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #343 of 1437 🔗

Well here’s another pointless distraction for Boris:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/23/boris-bridge-linking-scotland-northern-ireland-could-essential/

A bridge linking Scotland and Northern Ireland could become as critical a part of UK infrastructure as the M25, a Cabinet minister has said.
Boris Johnson is expected to announce his decision to finance a feasibility study into the construction of a bridge between the two nations during his visit to Scotland on Thursday.
Brandon Lewis, the Northern Ireland Secretary, told Sky News on Thursday morning that the so-called ‘Boris Bridge’ would boost connectivity for the regions and was “a good thing, not just for Scotland and Northern Ireland, but for the whole of our economy”.
It was an “exciting project”, Mr Lewis added, noting that big infrastructure projects like this were always “controversial, difficult but the right thing to do”.

I did’nt know the Torygraph was much into satire, so what on earth did Brandon Lewis have for breakfast?

60571 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #344 of 1437 🔗

I think we need a reversal of who is locked down in an asylum.

Bridges + Mr Toad = Fantastic waste of space and money.

60557 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #345 of 1437 🔗

Meanwhile, this headline ought to be hilarious, except that its consequences aren’t.

UK’s mixing of messages on coronavirus arose ‘almost by accident’, MPs find
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/23/uks-mixing-of-messages-on-coronavirus-arose-almost-by-accident-mps-find

And this about sums it all up:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/23/uk-failed-to-plan-for-economic-impact-of-flu-like-pandemic-says-watchdog

There was an “astonishing” failure by government to plan for the economic impact of a possible flu-like pandemic, parliament’s financial watchdog has said.
MPs on the cross-party public accounts committee concluded that government schemes were drawn up “on the hoof” in mid-March by Rishi Sunak’s Treasury, weeks after the first case of coronavirus was detected in the UK. The delay risked leaving sectors of the UK economy behind, according to a report published on Thursday…..

“We are astonished by the government’s failure to consider in advance how it might deal with the economic impacts of a pandemic,” the committee said in a statement.

60567 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #346 of 1437 🔗

A ‘flu like pamdemic’ so if it’s the flu why is the country being bankrupted and people locked indoors?

Answers on a postcard please

60568 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 4, #347 of 1437 🔗

Over halfway now. Wonder how many signatures will be added once people realise just how shitty masks are to wear?

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430

60802 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to kbeanie, #348 of 1437 🔗

Thank you, kbeanie – have signed and shared the petition.

60570 Ed Phillips, replying to Ed Phillips, #349 of 1437 🔗

Can you help me get clarity on the issue of the legality of the face mask mandate?

In his statement to the House, Matt Hancock stated that it would be law.
Is it? Will it be? Is it a change to the statutory instruments or is it an amendment to an Act of Parliament?
Has there been Parliamentary oversight or is it pushed through the Health Act which turns the Health Secretary into a dictator?

60584 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ed Phillips, 4, #350 of 1437 🔗

It’s really simple, Ed. They can, and will, do what they want. They just push out SI’s without scrutiny, and certainly without regard for whether they make sense.

E.g., you can’t go into a shop, order a sandwich and sit down. But, you can sit down then order a sandwich. Got it?

60598 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #351 of 1437 🔗

Oh, I know Sam. It’s utter madness. Always has been from the very beginning. I have got to the point now where I believe this government is illegitimate and is in opposition to the people.

60644 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ed Phillips, #352 of 1437 🔗

Better late than never, Ed. 🙂

60688 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to JohnB, 1, #353 of 1437 🔗

Ha! I’ve thought it from the beginning, really. I’m just saying it ‘out loud’ now.

60734 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #354 of 1437 🔗

In the pub staff must muzzle up but you don’t, next door in Tesco it’s the opposite, clear joined up gummerment.

60586 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Ed Phillips, 10, #355 of 1437 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/07/22/parliament-has-ducked-duty-hold-government-account/

According to the DT yesterday:

“There will be no vote either on the extension of public health laws to require the wearing of face coverings in shops from tomorrow. The regulations will only be published today when the House will not be sitting. It is hard to believe that a Government diktat enforcing the wearing of masks is to take effect with nary a peep from parliament.”

60597 ▶▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Edna, 3, #356 of 1437 🔗

That’s what I thought. Thanks for the confirmation.

60618 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Edna, 8, #357 of 1437 🔗

The opposition have been even more disappointing than the government if that is possible

60646 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 11, #358 of 1437 🔗

Opposition? Not one of the bastards has said “Don’t do that” or “Why are you doing this?” or “Time to stop it now”. Not one word from any of them.

60843 ▶▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #359 of 1437 🔗

No – the best they can come up with is why the Tories aren’t doing more of what they are doing.

60573 Hannahbanana, replying to Hannahbanana, 28, #360 of 1437 🔗

We just did our last ‘big shop’ for a couple of weeks. My hope is that the mask hysteria subsides in a week or so, and the idea of enforcement is realised to be completely unworkable.

My grandma (79) has just been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. Yes she is old, but she is otherwise fit, active, looks after herself, no dementia. However, She is a big reader and watcher of mainstream news, failed to go to the doctors when she got extremely ill due to the propaganda. she is too nice, couldn’t bare to be a burden.
Push came to shove, she was taken to a and e, and here we are. I accept that she is old and pancreatic cancer is largely untreatable, but the emotional manipulation is unforgivable.

60596 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Hannahbanana, 12, #361 of 1437 🔗

Yes – Just one personal situation amongst thousands.

There has to be a reckoning – but I don’t know when, given the general widespread gullibility and ignorance.

60574 Michael C, replying to Michael C, 18, #362 of 1437 🔗

With muzzles for shopping coming in tomorrow in England to encourage the frightened to come out and shop, I wonder whether an exercise in non muzzle shopping might be a good idea to test Boris’s theory, and the efficacy of the damned things is also widely disputed. Since the centre of London is currently described as a desert why not make Oxford Street from Tottenham Court Road to Marble Arch and Regent Street from Portland Place to Piccadilly Circus a non muzzle shopping area and see over a month whether shopping footfall rises as non muzzlers flock to Central London.

60588 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Michael C, 4, #363 of 1437 🔗

Michael, great point and it could have been done ages ago.

No my plan for the next few years is to try and preserve any wealth I have and pay the absolute minimum in tax. Because that’s going to go skyhigh.

We are fully in the Sunken Cost Fallacy right now.

60592 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Michael C, 5, #364 of 1437 🔗

I have been to Oxford street on a couple of Saturdays (without going into shops) and apart from the odd store they pretty much look like there are more staff than customers and they all have the strict restrictions in place. I think a shopping centre or high street without any of the stupid restrictions would do thriving trade.

60647 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Michael C, 16, #365 of 1437 🔗

to encourage the frightened to come out and shop” YouGov poll showed that masks are likely to have a net negative effect on numbers – by 8 percentage points. Anyway, masks have nothing whatever to do with encouraging the frightened and everything to do with perpetuating the Big Lie that covid is dangerous and all this nonsense was necessary. It’s evil. I really don’t think you can ascribe any good intentions to what the government are doing.

61654 ▶▶ IanStaffs, replying to Michael C, #366 of 1437 🔗

Non Muzzle sounds too much like Non Muslim.
Obviously can’t go there.

60575 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 37, #367 of 1437 🔗

Just back from the local shell petrol garage with a pint of milk (unleaded)

Young chap inside stocking the fridge – maskless

‘excuse me can you pass me a 2 pinter’

Chap stepped back and beckoned me to take one.

‘it’s ok I’m not contagious, honest’

‘i didn’t think you were but you won’t believe how stupid people are and are scared to come near me’

‘ha, well seeing as you have been working here all this time if it was that dangerous you should be dead’

‘ha right on brother’

Paid at the till, 2 masked 50+ being served, bit of confusion with their order (mostly chocolate, chronically obese, more likely to die from heart attack), she was wearing that can only be described as a dirty nappy he was wearing a manky bit of t-shirt which he didn’t stop fiddling with.

Finally sorted their bill, she was eligible for a free coffee and she kindly offered it to me, politely declined.

On my way out said to young chap how crazy people are re masks.

He couldn’t agree more and not to get him started, same here I said.

Bid farewell with a spring in my step.

60599 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 9, #368 of 1437 🔗

Not to get him started – how wonderful to read that!

60578 David Mc, replying to David Mc, #369 of 1437 🔗

I wrote another blog post, on Cognitive Dissonance at the End of the Pandemic: https://medium.com/@civitasperegrina/cognitive-dissonance-at-the-end-of-the-pandemic-9d3dcc6bfc99

60585 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to David Mc, 4, #370 of 1437 🔗

Unfortunately, for most part people will never experience that. There was a great essay written on the subject of “fear” albeit in Environmental Sciences, but it is so true about COVID-19. A passage from the abstract pretty much sums it all up:

Once a false claim that something awful might happen gets put into the community’s mind it is almost unshakeable, regardless of how clear the science is for the contrary view. A scary claim’s echo bounces around the community and gets heard again from different angles, reinforcing the claim’s grip (“many independent people, including the celebrity witch doctor, think that the rock is a lion, so that’s clearly what it is”).

Ignorance is contagious (2008)

60582 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 24, #371 of 1437 🔗

Every morning I am shocked by what I read in the papers, but the government really seems to be playing with fire when I read things like this in the Telegraph today –

Cressida Dick, the commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, said she hoped people would be “shamed” into leaving stores if they did not comply with the rules to wear masks.
She told LBC radio: “Calling the police should be a last resort for dealing with a mask issue. But the law is a law.
“My hope is that the vast majority of people will comply and people will be shamed into leaving the store.”

To me shaming can easily proceed to violence. This is very sinister stuff from the government, actively turning citizens on each other (it has never turned out well in the past!). I expect they will use the same tactic with the vaccination, truly dystopian.

60593 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Darryl, 12, #372 of 1437 🔗

already been discussed on here (control F on Dick) summary of feelings is that this is promoting harassment (a crime) and also potential breaches of disability discrimination laws in not recognising valid exceptions

60609 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to mjr, 2, #373 of 1437 🔗

Thanks, sorry I didn’t go back far enough on the comments today. Very annoyed at being censored by the Telegraph when I tried to post on their site. Freedom of speech is really being restricted at the moment.

60663 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Darryl, 2, #374 of 1437 🔗

They censor bad language. Not other things, in my experience.

60665 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to annie, 1, #375 of 1437 🔗

Yes, just about anything considered a swear word within the text will result in a failed attempt to post.

60783 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, #376 of 1437 🔗

Attacking my Protected Characterstics, that ridiculous concept working for me for once.

60742 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Darryl, 3, #377 of 1437 🔗

Government policy as dictated by Spi-b.Uk Column very good on this

60589 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 16, #378 of 1437 🔗

Went to my local Co-op supermarket this morning and, despite new “please wear a face covering” signs on the doors, only one shopper out of about 20, and no staff, were wearing masks. It will be interesting to see what things are like in a weeks time.

I did have an exemption badge with me but didn’t wear it, seeing as the law doesn’t actually start till tomorrow there’s still no obligation to even prove you’re exempt.

60603 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Drawde927, 10, #379 of 1437 🔗

It is clear to me that there is a good 80-90% of people not at all interested in wearing masks. I find it hard to believe that tomorrow this will revert to 100% compliance.

Guess we shall see !

60594 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 17, #380 of 1437 🔗

I feel a Ceausescu moment looming. Don’t know what will trigger it. Dispersal Orders are rising. I suspect Mrs Dick will run for the hills at the first whiff of grapeshot

60604 ▶▶ Alice, replying to Cecil B, #381 of 1437 🔗

Oh, yes, yes!!! I feel that, too!

60606 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Cecil B, 1, #382 of 1437 🔗

Hope so

60629 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Cecil B, 7, #383 of 1437 🔗

Truly hope so. The trouble is there is more or less consensus media backing of the government actions and they have managed to propagandise the population so well that most of the people I see look like fearful zombies.

60662 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #384 of 1437 🔗

I’d like a howitzer please.

61658 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #385 of 1437 🔗

Attached to the best tank that money can buy.

60736 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cecil B, 5, #386 of 1437 🔗

I hope so because you can March,write letters sign petitions all you want.The only thing they ever listen to is force.I.e.poll tax,Brixton riots.Short of mass disturbances or their magical vaccine I can never see the end of this.

60967 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cecil B, #387 of 1437 🔗

We live in hope.

61303 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Cecil B, 1, #388 of 1437 🔗

Bring out the pitchforks!

61411 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cecil B, #389 of 1437 🔗

I was convinced its October now I’m thinking it might be August – the bank holiday could possibly trigger something.

60595 Kath Andrews, replying to Kath Andrews, 15, #390 of 1437 🔗

I have just telephoned Cardiff Bus to ask whether I can use their bus service from Monday (27th), explaining that I am medically exempt from wearing a mask. The person I spoke to said that I will be able to use the bus, he explained that the driver may enquire why I am not wearing a mask – but all I have to do is explain that I am medically exempt.

60661 ▶▶ annie, replying to Kath Andrews, 3, #391 of 1437 🔗

Just don’t read your newspaper.
Actually, considering the s…t that’s in most of them, it’s probably a good idea anyway.

60601 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 21, #392 of 1437 🔗

https://journal.sketchingscience.org/users/333926/articles/460021-living-with-covid-19-balancing-costs-against-benefits-in-the-face-of-the-virus
Lockdown is not cost effective even avoiding the worst scenario Fergusson’s 500 000 deaths. The whole NHS, screening programs etc is built upon quality-adjusted life years (QALY) value of £30,000 (maximum under NICE guidelines). Anything over that is not cost effective and would crowd out other resources for NHS. Any inquiry into the lockdown to conclude that it should have been implemented earlier is meaningless as lockdown is not affordable. What is the costliest in the lockdown? The most likely is the furlough scheme and stop people working. What is most cost effective in social distancing etc? That is the task for any normal public health minded scientist. The price tag is clear and evidence based £30,000. Quotation from article “ Application to potential future scenarios showed in the best case a QALY value of £220k (7xNICE guideline) and in the worst-case £3.7m (125xNICE guideline) was needed to justify the continuation of the lockdown.” This is an impossible sum of money which would wreck the NHS and crowd out all other treatment.
I think this government and all others in the world realize these figures. They all must know it was not cost effective but they cannot survive revealing this. Hence the theatre with masks and threating us with a new lockdown if the sheep are not obedient. How on earth cannot any opposition party realize the golden opportunity to bring down a government making such a disastrous mistake?

60614 ▶▶ Will, replying to swedenborg, 19, #393 of 1437 🔗

They all know they backed the wrong horse but dare not admit it because the result of lockdown is so catastrophic. The whole charade of face nappies, local lockdowns, test and trace is a ludicrous exercise to try and deny the possibility that herd immunity has beaten the virus and our governments have ruined the western world for nothing.

60642 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 9, #394 of 1437 🔗

The opposition were equally guilty of going along with it, partly out of incompetence and apathy, partly I suspect because it suited their own agenda. Labour is well positioned to take over next time, as life here will be crap and people will want a change.

61060 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Julian, #395 of 1437 🔗

And communism will be half installed by then by the tories.

60617 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to kbeanie, 3, #397 of 1437 🔗

Unfortunately, I suspect there’s a problem with selection bias there, so I’d take that with a huge grain of salt…

60638 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to IMoz, 2, #398 of 1437 🔗

People often moan about things and disagree but 99% will usually go along with any government diktat. The pressure to conform in society is strong and the media enforce the government message no matter how stupid.

60757 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, #399 of 1437 🔗

Not so sure. Speeding ? Drunk and incapable in town centres ? The sacred weed ?

60623 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to kbeanie, 20, #400 of 1437 🔗

Great Thanks.
“87% plan to boycott shops that enforce face mask rules from Friday”

Another post on this thread
“Serious question. Why are there no biohazard bins for mask and gloves if this virus is so contagious and deadly”

60607 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 21, #401 of 1437 🔗

News just in from Reverso World:

Government acts on mask wearing in public .

There has been an alarming rise in people wearing face masks in shops, building up a concentration of snot, spit and possibly germs on their face. The mask wearers constantly touch their masks and then handle goods in shops, including food.

The Health Secretary said “This is obviously a serious health risk and we will ban masks in shops from Friday 24th July, by law.”

60611 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #402 of 1437 🔗

If only!

60670 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #403 of 1437 🔗

Once furlough finishes and mass unemployment is upon us along with repossession’s ,debt,and rising prices these same people demanding you wear a mask will be demanding a ban on face coverings due to the violent crime epidemic taking place

61095 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #404 of 1437 🔗

Welcome to Tanzania!!

60613 Andy C, replying to Andy C, 14, #405 of 1437 🔗

I’ve just returned from my local M&S Food Hall. I’m pleased to report that masks were few and far between. I did overhear a sarcastic comment from a mask-sporting old couple (presumably aimed at me) when I was in the vegetable aisle, but aside from that, everyone was friendly including staff. I didn’t get the impression they’ll be enforcing mask wearing any time soon. I saw one employee wearing a plastic visor but that was all.

60651 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Andy C, 4, #406 of 1437 🔗

Just been in Morrisons, Teesside Park. I would say at least 30% face nappy submission. Obviously they can’t wait for Hell Day, tomorrow.

60809 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Andy C, 9, #407 of 1437 🔗

If any customer in a shop gets ratty with me for not wearing a mask. I will take out my ‘phone and ask for their name and address. If they ask why, I will tell them that I do not have to discuss my medical condition with them and that their harassment of me is an offence under the Equality Act of 2010 and they should expect a letter from my solicitor.

60920 ▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Margaret, 3, #408 of 1437 🔗

I’m planning something similar, incorporating the phrase ‘hate crime’ should it become necessary

61063 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Margaret, #409 of 1437 🔗

I will just give them my psycho look…they will soon scuttle off!

60620 PWL, #411 of 1437 🔗

Face coverings in shops: it’s all about store policy and its reward or punishment – so don’t make excuses to be allowed in
frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/07/face-coverings-in-shops-its-all-about-store-policy-and-its-reward-or-punishment-so-dont-make-excuses-to-be-allowed-in/

60621 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 15, #412 of 1437 🔗

Really hope this is not the future for any groups or individuals who challenge the government/official narrative. If the government can justify shutting the country indefinitely due to health concerns regarding its citizens, why do they come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who expresses health concerns about the lockdown itself, 5g or vaccines?

“Richie Allen
Howya friends. Little bit of news. I’ve a couple of mates who work for Google. They both must remain anonymous of course. They drip feed me bits of information from time to time. Around four years ago, one of them told me that the demonetisation of alternative news channels would become standard. He was right as I learned when my original YouTube channel, which had nearly 100,000 subscribers, was deleted for no reason, three years ago.
I heard from him this morning. He told me two things. He said that when the covid vaccine is ready, or shortly before then, Google/YouTube is planning to take down thousands of channels that have traditionally hosted open discussion around vaccine safety. They will do this he said, in tandem with Facebook and Twitter. According to him, discussions between all three have already taken place. He reckons it’ll be the biggest culling to date, of content creators and independent vloggers/commentators.
While this may be unsurprising, it is important news and I trust him implicitly. He also said that it is his belief (and I’ve said as much myself) that Russian interference claims are nothing but a smokescreen for mass censorship. They (the royal they), know damn well that the Russians are not responsible for spreading anti-vaccine information online, pro-Brexit propaganda or information about 5G. They KNOW he said, that these initiatives are grassroots organisations, set up by genuinely concerned citizens, but that the easiest way to legislate for them and ultimately to censor them, is to blame Russia. Problem Reaction Solution. He’s right. Again I have said as much many times.
Last year, Professor Julian Petley, one of the UK’s finest journalists and teachers, told me before an interview that he was worried about me. He’d been attending journalist conferences and one or two conferences on fake news. Julian is an unswerving proponent of free speech. He said my name was coming up a lot and that there may be some movement against me or the show. When I told him that I wasn’t working for anyone and was broadcasting from a home studio rather than a radio station, he was somewhat relieved, but nonetheless told me to watch my back.
This morning, my Google mate said that The RA Show is on a shortlist of programmes to not only be removed from YouTube (which I don’t care about at all), but also to be removed from Google search results too. He said the RA show replacement channel, which has 31,000 subs, has in reality many more, but they’re not being counted. Worse still he said, the viewing numbers are fixed so that less than one in ten views are shown. The point of this he went on, is to dissuade people from watching, people apparently being more inclined to watch content that’s showing hundreds of thousands of views.
Now I couldn’t give a fiddlers about YT viewing figures or subscribers as you well know. The bulk of my audience listens live as it is a live radio show, or they grab the podcast from iTunes, Spotify, Podomatic etc. And viewing/listening numbers say nothing about the quality of a show in any case, but it’s important to note this, cos they ain’t just doing it to me.
Asked if there’s any concern among his fellow employees about what is happening, my mate said no. Or at least nobody has said anything. Maybe they are like him, worried about the prospect of losing a tech job, being labelled a troublemaker and struggling to get another one. Share this widely as your favourite Youtubers need to know that this mass cull is coming to coincide with the arrival of the covid-vaccine, so that they can back up their videos, something which they should be doing, but many don’t. Anyhow, thanks for reading. I’m on air at 5. Loads to do. Speak later.”

60630 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, 3, #413 of 1437 🔗

Simon Dolan interviewed by Allen yesterday https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/richieallen/episodes/2020-07-22T11_18_32-07_00
Interview begins about 10 mins in.

I already posted this same link lower down the page. Feels reasonable to attach to Humanity First’s comment.

60622 Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, 2, #414 of 1437 🔗

Our local travel companies response in Mid Wales “ CELTIC TRAVEL
Important notice/reminder: As from Monday 27th July 2020 it is mandatory that 3 LAYER FACE MASKS (not scarfs etc) are to be worn on all public transport in Wales, please ensure you have a face mask before getting on our buses, you will be asked to provide a medical note if you cannot wear a face mask”

60627 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Laura Gallagher, 9, #415 of 1437 🔗

Medical note, who thought that Welsh bus drivers are all trained GP’s

Couldn’t make this shit up.

60643 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to stefarm, 7, #416 of 1437 🔗

Are they going to check that your medical note from ‘Dr Schnabel von Rom’ is genuine?

60628 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Laura Gallagher, 7, #417 of 1437 🔗

So how does the driver count the number of layers to check without getting his hands impossibly coated in miasma?

60673 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to guy153, 2, #418 of 1437 🔗

He asks you to take the mask off and demonstrate its composition.

60671 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Laura Gallagher, 5, #419 of 1437 🔗

Wow! No layers to three layers overnight in the future.
What kind of clever prophets are now working for the Welsh government?

60800 ▶▶ zacaway, replying to Laura Gallagher, 3, #420 of 1437 🔗

3-ply Andrex wrapped around the face then, eh? Only the best will do.

60806 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Laura Gallagher, 6, #421 of 1437 🔗

“You will be asked to produce a medical note…”
That’s (illegal) bollox since you do not need to provide a note from your Doctor, or your Mum, to be excused and your Doctor is too busy/isolating to provide you with one anyway.

60849 ▶▶ Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, #422 of 1437 🔗

One person concerned that they would not be able to get a note in time asked then on facebook if an up-to-date prescription would suffice!

61681 ▶▶ Laura Gallagher, replying to Laura Gallagher, #423 of 1437 🔗

After customer “feedback” they will now also accept Hidden Disability cards https://hiddendisabilitiesstore.com/shop/cards.html . I have contacted our local GP surgeries to ask what there views on this are. Will update here in case useful to anyone and whether we are able to get them to back down on this,.

60633 Humanity First, 14, #424 of 1437 🔗

A comment on You Tube:

If our benevolent overlords were really interested in “social distancing”©️™️ and making sure that we were widely dispersed when out and about for the sake of “safety” and “public health” they would make sure that as many small businesses as possible would stay open, instead of directing us to Walmart and Target where we’re mingling with hundreds of people with magical, non-biohazard, face diapers on.

If you still haven’t figured out that this isn’t about the Big Scary Boogeyflu, but about a controlled demolition of the global economy, the deliberate destruction of small business and handing over complete control of the economy to a handful of giant mega corporations, all in preparation for the “Great Reset.”… and if you still believe that life will return to a semblance of normal if we would all just OBEY and do what we’re told

If all that is the case then you’re a [$%%] retard. Sugar coating that fact is not going to change it. But you don’t have to stay tarded out forever.

60635 PWL, #425 of 1437 🔗

Hi folks.

I’d like to join in and point to material that I’ve published about wearing face coverings in shops, but it appears that comments containing links to my site are moderated. There are two articles, if you’d like to search to find them: “The coronavirus police state (5): the wear-a-mask-to-shop deception” and “Face coverings in shops: it’s all about store policy and its reward or punishment – so don’t make excuses to be allowed in”

60636 P W Laurie, #426 of 1437 🔗

Hi folks.
I’d like to join in and point to material that I’ve published about wearing face coverings in shops, but it appears that comments containing links to my site are moderated. There are two articles, if you’d like to search to find them: “The coronavirus police state (5): the wear-a-mask-to-shop deception” and “Face coverings in shops: it’s all about store policy and its reward or punishment – so don’t make excuses to be allowed in”

60639 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 15, #427 of 1437 🔗

YELLOW MASKS
A suggestion. Before I make it, all this is taking a big toll on my mental health, so I’m trying to avoid too much involvement. If others think my suggestion is good, perhaps someone could kindly run with it.
I’m mindful of the French “yellow jackets” protest, though I’m not sure what it was about. The best protests start from the grass roots, rather than being too orchestrated. I think those of us who object to mask wearing but feel forced to wear them in shops to avoid fines, abuse or violence (as may be the result of Cressida Dick’s sinister encouragement of shaming to ensure compliance), should wear PLAIN BRIGHT YELLOW MASKS. Eventually, word will get around what the meaning of this colour mask is. We don’t need words on them, as slogans might cause abuse, but the bright yellow background would make words easy to read if individuals did want to write on them. People have many reasons for objecting, so the absence of a slogan or message would be a positive. They would be easy to make. Possibly you could use a cut-off from an old hi-vis vest (?breathable?). Someone here might want to raise a bit of money by making and selling them as a business. I would buy one.

60652 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Aremen, 14, #428 of 1437 🔗

No way will I wear a mask in a shop. I have an exemption badge but will use a flimsy scarf or a midge net if a face covering is unavoidable.
The midge net is best because it lets you breathe reasonably freely.

60658 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #429 of 1437 🔗

What about a beekeepers hat??

60666 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to tonyspurs, #430 of 1437 🔗

Same thing really.
Type midge net head into Amazon for a huge choice and to get ideas.
(Apparently black is the easiest to see through!)

60668 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Aremen, 13, #431 of 1437 🔗

Wearing a face mask even if yellow means that you are willing to wear one.

Take control of your life. Use an exempt badge if questioned.

60692 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Victoria, 7, #432 of 1437 🔗

Yes, I know I could do that, but it’s the principle of the thing. I shouldn’t have to declare that I’m exempt. We should all be exempt.

60719 ▶▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Aremen, 2, #433 of 1437 🔗

I know what you mean, I don’t see I can rightfully claim an exemption though the whole social distancing/mask wearing makes me feel stressed out.

It should have been left as a choice, if you choose to wear one fine. But don’t force people.

60737 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ambwozere, 6, #434 of 1437 🔗

Stress / distress – same root. So you can rightfully claim an exemption. 🙂

60796 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bobblybob, replying to JohnB, 6, #435 of 1437 🔗

If anyone asks why you’re not wearing one just say something neutral like ‘I have my reasons’. They have no right to enquire further because of medical confidentiality, and even if you don’t have a medical problem you’re not lying.

60696 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Victoria, 6, #436 of 1437 🔗

Claiming exemption legitimises what the govt is doing. See here . If you cannot avoid using a shop that insists on masks, I would suggest buying as little as possible there and maybe telling the proprietors why (in writing afterwards if you wish to avoid any sort of scene).

60753 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #437 of 1437 🔗

Hmm, yes and no. It’s quite a verbose piece which would benefit from a pruning, and a clarification of its central message. Some of the assumptions dubious too.

I don’t see stating an exemption as legitimising anything. I see it as buying beer and biscuits in a normal fashion. (Also as setting a good example to others as a side-effect.).

60761 ▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Simon Dutton, 6, #438 of 1437 🔗

Good article, make sense to me. Shopkeepers are under no legal obligation to enforce the rule, so if they choose to that is their policy and so the most effective thing you can do is walk away and take your custom elsewhere (assuming you can find a shop that isn’t collaborating with the government).

This puts economic pressure on the shop to change policy, with no legal problem for them. The just have to calculate whether they gain more business than they lose based on what policy they adopt. I suspect mandatory face masks aren’t going to increase business in most cases, ego boycotting shops that enforce it is the most effective way to challenge this.

60741 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Aremen, 5, #439 of 1437 🔗

This is a really good idea.

First stop. Not wearing ever.

Plan B for when gun is against head – this. Yellow vest masks. That could easily grow in scale – compliance and protesting. For others to see far and near. Brilliant Idea Aremen.

60772 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 2, #440 of 1437 🔗

Plan B for when gun is against head – this.

Knock gun aside, seize from goon, ventilate goon. What a way to go ! 🙂

61016 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Basics, 3, #441 of 1437 🔗

Thank you. At the time of writing, my original comment has 11 thumbs up. I’m in no fit state mentally (because of all this) to take this further. I just wanted to sow a seed. Can anyone who likes my idea please take it a step further (I’m not sure how, but I know there are clever people out there with good contacts)? Thanks.

61221 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Aremen, 1, #442 of 1437 🔗

Its up the sleeve and ready to deploy. To use at the right moment. Plan a first!
It is a genuinely good idea. I will keep mentioning it.

Perhaps protests could ask for flo masks.

61934 ▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to Aremen, #444 of 1437 🔗

No, that’s a bit too much like voluntarily wearing a yellow Star of David for my liking. Just don’t wear a mask. At all. And if anyone questions why you’re not going along with the diktat simply tell them it’s none of their damn business (which it’s not). As the mask nonsense is taking a toll on your mental health (ditto) you have a legitimate exemption from it. Do not submit. Do not go gentle into that good night.

60649 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 15, #445 of 1437 🔗

What’s interesting with masks is something I have seen a lot in my career and is called the Fallacy of Composition. A single effect when added to a chain of effects does not imply the system (chain of effects) will do what the single effect does.

The term in science is ceteris parebus (all things being equal). Real systems don’t work on that. They work on the minimum energy principle. Do what is efficient but not necessarily effective.

And so masks if anything deal with stopping droplets. Okay, but does stopping droplets prevent you from catching a virus? Does catching a virus in itself result in you getting ill?

On it goes. Nature is actually rather complicated and extraordinary claims, as Carl Sagan says, require extraordinary evidence.

The seat belt one is funny as well. Seat belts do prevent you from getting as seriously injured in a car crash and countless dummy tests can show this, along with real crash evidence. But they also make you drive faster and especially in 30 miles an hour zones, where 70% of all deaths occur.

Things are not linear and simplistic. All you can do is build contigency. Masks haven’t been shown to rise above the noise. And as we’ve seen it has been deemed to add the air of “safety” with the outcome being that people will then go about their business. So if that causes things to change then the argument is that the science doesn’t matter.

But what if no-one goes into the shops and economy further tanks?

60655 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to mhcp, 9, #446 of 1437 🔗

what if no-one goes into the shops and economy further tanks?

That’s the idea.

60657 ▶▶ Julian, replying to mhcp, 13, #447 of 1437 🔗

And as we’ve seen it has been deemed to add the air of “safety” with the outcome being that people will then go about their business. ” I don’t think for a moment the government believes it will add to the air of safety, in fact they want the opposite to happen – they want people to be frightened, so that the Big Lie that we face an extraordinary challenge that requires extraordinary measures is cemented into people’s minds, permanently. This is a coup.

60659 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mhcp, 2, #448 of 1437 🔗

I don’t think the seat belt argument is valid. I think we’re so used to using them that a psychological safety effect is unlikely.

On the other hand, 30MPH zones are in residential and built-up areas, where there is a higher concentration of vulnerable bodies, on foot or on two wheels.

60801 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #449 of 1437 🔗

John Adams is the goto for the seat belt argument. He analyses the figures and shows that the a trend in falling deaths then plateaus since 1983 when seat belts became mandatory. He has other examples, one in which he cut his hedge (he lives on a dangerous bend) only to see car speeds increase. (Edit: it wasn’t his hedge it was from 1907! but the point stands)

His point is that measures to enhance ‘safety” often do not include the whole system dynamics especially the users of that system

60653 Sam Vimes, 17, #450 of 1437 🔗

Just back from my last weekly shop as a free Englishman. Home Bargains first: no masks on staff, customers about the usual quota of late. Watched a woman pull hers down while talking to a pal, then put it back up and wander round the store playing with it. No signs about impending doom, although, interestingly they had a till labelled as ‘cash only’, which is new for there. Usual pleasant, no hassle visit.

On to Asda: All staff muzzled, maybe more customer muzzles noticeable, but not too bad. Again, playing with them. No signs or anything regarding Black Friday.

Aldi next: Guy on way in pulling down his mask to use vape thing. Staff not muzzled! Apparently, though, policy will be all staff must wear on shop floor. Again, you wouldn’t think something monstrous is due to happen tomorrow. Stocked up on my ‘house’ Oz Chardy, in case problems do arise this weekend.

Finally, quick trip to Lidl, which will replace Aldi for me, if they get bolshy. Decent selection of beers here. Generally stress free, two staff on tills, one with, one without. Interestingly, the ‘with’ was a young lad, you know, from that demographic that are pretty much immune. Customers about 20%.

Didn’t actually ask any of them about policy, cos I’m depressed enough with it. Overall, you wouldn’t think anything bad was coming, but I’m sure it will.

60654 P W Laurie, #451 of 1437 🔗

Hi folks.
I’d like to “join the discussion” and point to material that I’ve published about wearing face coverings in shops, but it appears that comments containing links to my site are moderated. There are two articles, if you’d like to search to find them: “The coronavirus police state (5): the wear-a-mask-to-shop deception” and “Face coverings in shops: it’s all about store policy and its reward or punishment – so don’t make excuses to be allowed in”

60656 P W Laurie, #452 of 1437 🔗

Testing. Will this be auto moderated.

60674 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 24, #453 of 1437 🔗

Surely Cressida Dick’s incitement to vigilanteism shows her to be unfit to be a police officer? After all, the reason why we have police is so we do not need to have vigilantes.

60731 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #454 of 1437 🔗

Apart from her probable black mass initiation ( 🙂 ), I’m unaware of any attributes she has that make her fit to be a policeperson.

60778 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 3, #455 of 1437 🔗

She’s got an appropriate name 🙂

61071 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to JohnB, #456 of 1437 🔗

She is very tall.

60749 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #457 of 1437 🔗

I complained, but my complaint was rejected as I am not a direct victim – seeing it on the news doesn’t count apparently.

60791 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Julian, 1, #458 of 1437 🔗

Mine too was rejected and I will not be allowed a review.

60821 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Julian, 1, #459 of 1437 🔗

Does that mean that if I get harassed, I have legitimate grounds for complaint?

60675 RickH, replying to RickH, 13, #460 of 1437 🔗

Just stepping back a bit :

Article 6 of the United Nations Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights states:

“Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information. The consent should, where appropriate, be express and may be withdrawn by the person concerned at any time and for any reason without disadvantage or prejudice.”

This, of course is central to any attempts by the Mengele Academy of Public Health to enforce vaccination with a – by definition – inadequately trialed concoction. Proper RCTs will take a span of years – forget the bullshit about speedy production, especially when the target is an infection whose virulance and lethality is well within what might be considered unexceptional. Especially when it has effectively vanished (although watch out for mythical ‘second waves’.

But that declaration also covers non-pharmacological interventions, such as masks.

Now, of course, such documents have a questionable relationship to law, but that statement covers what is accepted as basic medical ethics in most countries. As a BMJ article points out :

“Proving a breach of the Hippocratic Oath’s ethical obligation to “do no harm” was central to the conviction of the Nazi doctors at the Nuremberg Trials after the second world war for non-consensual, brutal experimentation, sterilisation, and active non-voluntary euthanasia. Those proceedings spurred creation of a tripartite collection of documents that remain central to medical ethics: the Declaration of Geneva, (or the modernised Hippocratic Oath), the Nuremberg Declaration on Human Experimentation, and the International Code of Medical Ethics.”

… and my parents’ generation gave six years of their lives to establishing the wider rule of law summarised above in a ‘never again’ act against the jackboot.

Now we have, by diktat (not even proper law) Mr Toad and the Spivs trampling all over that heritage (no wonder they want to trash the concept of hard-won human rights like spoiled children).

What is the recourse in law (given the usual barriers of wealth)? Can the essential basics of medical ethics (obviously breached in the current situation) be tested in law?

I know we are now seeing the dire state of constitutionally defined rights,l which clearly indicate the pathetic inadequacy of the British ‘heritage’. But, for those former generations, the nation needs to properly sort out these self-serving bastards of even intent who are corrupting even those slender threads.

60681 ▶▶ Humanity First, replying to RickH, 1, #461 of 1437 🔗

If so-called “debates” like these are anything to go by, there will be a concerted attempt to vilify and socially ostracize (the matter of fact way they were agreeing on excluding unvaccinated children from schools was chilling ) anyone who expresses genuine doubt and concern about what they are being told to inject into their bodies…

https://youtu.be/25LbHn3byI8

60689 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Humanity First, 8, #462 of 1437 🔗

I don’t see what the difference is between having an unwelcome needle pierce your body followed by an unwanted substance entering your bloodstream, and having an uninvited penis entering a vagina and similar eventualities. Now imagine the outcry if the government was to tell women the latter was going to be ‘an instruction’ especially by an appropriately named useless bastard of a minister.

60730 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to James Leary #KBF, 1, #464 of 1437 🔗

Perhaps oddly, perhaps not, the majority of the pro-abortion people see no ‘My body, my choice’ issue at play re vaccines.

61737 ▶▶▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to JohnB, #465 of 1437 🔗

I’ve pondered this too – it’s very odd, the cognitive dissonance is astounding at times.

60726 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #466 of 1437 🔗

United Nations Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights

That’ll be another one without a 2nd Amendment, yes ?

60776 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, #467 of 1437 🔗

That’d be the “gun lobby’s cash cow amendment”?

No. I think this Declaration is about saving lives.

61234 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RickH, #468 of 1437 🔗

Not a minute ago, Rick, you posted about ‘dickhead prejudices’. I happen to agree with you, as I realise the divide and rule tactic is a big part of the bad guys’ playbook.

Then off you go repeating MSM bollocks about the ‘gun lobby’ and their ‘cash cow’. Ffs. I’d recommend talking to some ordinary people in the US of A about the 2nd Amendment. keepandbeararms.com is very good. Or read a few books – John Lott’s are some of the best.

But please stop dividing anti-lockdowners based on their thinking re the right to bear arms.

60676 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 4, #469 of 1437 🔗

I was watching an interesting video on YouTube last night about how the WHO and authorities are using celebrities, musicians and social media influencers to put out their message to their followers. The idea of doing something just because a celebrity says so is completely alien to me. But the strategy clearly works otherwise they wouldn’t be pursuing.

I wondered if any people on here have relatives and friends who are that easy influenced into behaving a certain way?

The video is well worth a watch if you get chance – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmWDUmFV6yY

60709 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Darryl, 1, #470 of 1437 🔗

Oh I think this definitely happens people love to follow what their favourite celeb does in terms of fashion etc so why not with masks.

I have a brain and think for myself but an easily influenced teenager might well just follow the celebrity culture.

61623 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Darryl, #471 of 1437 🔗

Guess who is paying for those celebrity testimonials? We are! Defund the World Health Organization! Put money back in your pockets.

60682 Paul, replying to Paul, 10, #472 of 1437 🔗

Muzzles in takeaways now ?,that was obviously going to happen,pubs and restaurants next.Speaking to restaurants and pubs around here I get a consistent narrative that the first week of re-opening was busy but since then business has fallen quite a lot and that’s in establishments that treat customers normally without all of the bullshit.Most of them are quite worried and think the £10 off per person next month will make very little difference.

60752 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Paul, 8, #473 of 1437 🔗

Masks in restaurants will surely be the final straw in exposing them as nothing more than a psychological ploy to help people feel ‘safe’, while also perpetuating the sense of fear and abnormality. You’d have to take them off to eat/drink, so does the virus suddenly become less virulent as soon as you tuck in to your meal? They just cannot be worn at all times in restaurants etc.

60759 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Poppy, 3, #474 of 1437 🔗

Masks are mandatory in restaurants in Spain I believe. Mind you Spain had taken mandatory mask wearing completely to another extreme as you have to wear them in every public place indoors and outdoors. Even walking the dog.

60764 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to ambwozere, 3, #475 of 1437 🔗

The future here I’m afraid.

60770 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #476 of 1437 🔗

Fear = failure, JP.

60898 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JohnB, 1, #477 of 1437 🔗

We have followed the french ,Spanish in everything they have done.face masks are compulsory when you leave your house in Spain bar Madrid and the Canaries.

60766 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to ambwozere, 2, #478 of 1437 🔗

Do you have to put one on the dog?

61074 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to ambwozere, #479 of 1437 🔗

Que

60826 ▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to Poppy, 4, #480 of 1437 🔗

The virus only circulates above the height of approximately 1.5 meters. Therefore, when sitting at a table at a restaurant you should be safe. The moment you stand you must immediately put on your mask or risk killing the remaining customers and staff.

60789 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Paul, 1, #481 of 1437 🔗

Masks outside will be a policy at some point, too.

We’re following sunk cost fallacy.

60797 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Paul, 3, #482 of 1437 🔗

The only way to stop this charade is not to wear a mask in any of these establishments.

60693 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 26, #483 of 1437 🔗

BBC News just reported that an ONS survey shows 71% now wearing a mask when leaving home. Where are all these people? Certainly not on any of the streets I walk down.
Another case of playing with data?

60698 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Polemon2, 9, #484 of 1437 🔗

Just been at my local Tesco; about 20% were muzzled – certainly increasing a bit over the last couple of weeks, but a million miles from 70%!

60701 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Polemon2, 6, #485 of 1437 🔗

If its BBC those results could have been fed to them by the govt or pulled out of thin air. I hardly see anyone round my way, south coast, with masks on, certainly not 71%.

60703 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Polemon2, 7, #486 of 1437 🔗

Only saw a maximum of 12-15% of people wearing them in town yesterday. And even then the number of people actually being out has increased massively, so more masks doesn’t really mean there actually was

60717 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Polemon2, 1, #487 of 1437 🔗

Oh yes.

It’s what they do.

60732 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Polemon2, 4, #488 of 1437 🔗

71% of BBC staff?

60739 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Polemon2, 2, #489 of 1437 🔗

Just walked to my local shop; no face masks en route (saw about 5 people) and of the 6 customers and 2 staff, only 1 customer was wearing a mask. He looked to be old and possibly not in the best health though.

60740 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Polemon2, 2, #490 of 1437 🔗

The BBC and the ONS peddle lies? Who knew?

60746 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Polemon2, 3, #491 of 1437 🔗

BBC are evil, lying bastards.

60747 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Polemon2, 1, #492 of 1437 🔗

They are the virtue signalers who have nothing to do now Points of View has gone and they have already written to Ofcom because Naked Attraction had nude people on the show.

60793 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Polemon2, 2, #493 of 1437 🔗

Not true

Dont listen to BBC, everything they say is not true or skewed.

60794 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Polemon2, #494 of 1437 🔗

Lots of people lying I’d say. I honestly don’t blame them, you’re probably going a register somewhere if you say ‘no’. Face mask offenders register or something. It gets posted on Facebook and to The Daily Mail so you can be publicly shamed for murdering old people.

60803 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Polemon2, #495 of 1437 🔗

Selective survey groups. This was members of the Royston Vasey Lucha Libre Associations going to their weekly tournaments

61079 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Polemon2, #496 of 1437 🔗

Its complete baloney.

60697 ambwozere, replying to ambwozere, 6, #497 of 1437 🔗

Just about sums up the idiots in power. Department of Health and social care can’t say when mask wearing will end.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-long-will-we-have-to-wear-masks-for-

60710 ▶▶ Adam, replying to ambwozere, 6, #498 of 1437 🔗

It won’t end. Even if the requirement is lifted, people who don’t wear them in everyday circumstances will be treated like social pariahs.

60712 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Adam, 6, #499 of 1437 🔗

That’s their choice to do so, it’s just not my choice.

60716 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Adam, 1, #500 of 1437 🔗

The story of my life …

60745 ▶▶ Julian, replying to ambwozere, 3, #501 of 1437 🔗

Why would the government want to end it? Unless it gained them votes – unlikely as Opposition are more pro-mask. Only chance is the Anti-mask equivalent of UKIP to frighten the Tories with lost votes – even then not sure they’d do more than promise a referendum…

60705 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 21, #502 of 1437 🔗

Since the incidence of the virus is so low (0.04 per cent of the population as of last week and falling) to the extent that there is no longer an epidemic, the protective effect is likely to be almost zero.

What sort of government treats one section of the governed as instruments to alleviate the fears of others?

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-problem-with-mandatory-face-masks/amp?__twitter_impression=true

60744 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kbeanie, 5, #503 of 1437 🔗

‘Ere, ‘ave that. We’re off on holidays innit?

60754 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kbeanie, 6, #504 of 1437 🔗

The only rational explanation that I can drum up is that aliens with a weird sense of humour are now in charge of the planet and our crushed, terrified governments around the world are carrying out psychological tests on behalf of their new over-lords!

60762 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to IanE, 3, #505 of 1437 🔗

I repeat – the Overlords await round the back of the moon until the grooming & preparations are complete.

Childhood’s End
Arthur C Clarke.

61562 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to IanE, #506 of 1437 🔗

David Ikes Lizards ?

60760 ▶▶ matt, replying to kbeanie, 14, #507 of 1437 🔗

Someone here linked to and quoted a study yesterday Where the calculated that, with the prevalence of the virus so low, 200,000 people would have to wear a mask to prevent 1 infection (the study queried whether they made any difference at all, but allowed that they might, for the purposes of the calculation.

With an IFR of 0.25% that means that 800,000,000 people would have to wear a mask to save a single life.

We just don’t have enough people in the country for masks to save lives.

60763 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to matt, 4, #508 of 1437 🔗

One could also add that any of those mask wearers would have to have been in close contact with at least one other person for 15 minutes to have risked viral infection of the other person.

60768 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to matt, 3, #509 of 1437 🔗

We could increase immigration by 2,400% to get us to a population of 800,000,000. It could save just one life.

60775 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to matt, #510 of 1437 🔗

Don’t suppose anyone has the link to hand?

60771 ▶▶ RickH, replying to kbeanie, 9, #511 of 1437 🔗

to the extent that there is no longer an epidemic”

Infection hasn’t been at ‘epidemic’ levels for some considerable time.

(See the CEBM in June : https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/what-does-rcgp-surveillance-tell-us-about-covid-19-in-the-community/ )

You are absolutely right about the nonsense that is being perpetrated and the way in which a scientifically (and media) illiterate public just suck it up.

I fact the average person would have to work extremely hard to even encounter an infected individual – let alone get infected themselves. I think your infection rate is in actuality probably a bit high, because it’s based on those unreliable testing figures. I reckon it may well be between .01% and .025%.

But that’s angels on the head of a pin stuff – the basic fact is that it’s a ludicrously low figure to command the sort of disruption that we see going on. Only a *moron* would seriously recommend shutting down society on that basis. Or recommending a fast-track vaccine.

Of course, that’s why we now have the ‘Second Wave’ development of the Scary Fairy as the official narrative falls apart. To which the answer is – read the ever reliable CEBM :

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-epidemic-waves/

“We do not know for certain whether COVID will recur in phases, or sporadic outbreaks or disappear altogether …

… Making absolute statements of certainty about ‘ second waves’ is unwise, given the current substantial uncertainties and novelty of the evidence.”

60724 NetflixAndPoptarts, #512 of 1437 🔗

What about wearing a clothing sign of solidarity with fellow lockdown sceptics – the bandana? There is no way I will wear any any kind of purpose-made face mask but I will wear a bandana around my neck. Any requests or even threats to wear a face covering can then be headed off at any time by just raising the bandana temporarily over mouth and nose. Then it can be immediately lowered when the normie has lost interest. Just repeat to get the messge across if the normie persists. Normies would soon get the message when they see the vast majority of people wearing bandanas. And, to see the majority of the population wearing a bandana would be great for morale. There is no need to even buy something sold as a bandana. A bandana is just an ordinary mens handkerchief folded over on itself and the two opposite corners along the fold are tied around the back of the neck. Suit shops are a good place to look if you dont have a mens handkerchief – some even stock purpose-made bandanas. #BandanaSceptics

60751 PWL, #513 of 1437 🔗

Question: where is the pressure coming from so that shops would implement face coverings as store policy? Face coverings in shops: it’s all about store policy and its reward or punishment – so don’t make excuses to be allowed in

60755 PWL, #514 of 1437 🔗

Testing. Will this comment be automoderated?

60756 PWL, #515 of 1437 🔗

Registered user whose comments are all moderated?

60767 peter, replying to peter, 5, #516 of 1437 🔗

Don’t be fooled by the press again, tranny Sturgeon is as hated in Scotland as England.

60788 ▶▶ IanE, replying to peter, 1, #517 of 1437 🔗

Well, I won’t oppose what you say – but it is hard to believe that that is possible!

61057 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to IanE, 3, #518 of 1437 🔗

It is possible. The people who support her are men who don’t get sex from their wives and drunken arseholes in track suits who hope she’ll keep funding their scum lifestyle.

61569 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to peter, #519 of 1437 🔗

According to beeb R4 today Sturgeon is +40 popular compared to Boza -30, can’t remember the exact figures since it’s clearly nonsense but close enough.

60769 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #520 of 1437 🔗

A bit off topic but another bit of research by our friends at Imperial College London in association with the University of Glasgow so that is why it is posted on their website.

They are researching meteoroids, fireballs etc using cameras apparently.

Then a friend sent this link about a “debris field” the earth is about to enter and asked are the 2 items linked somehow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkvj_J85rhE

I’d say if they are linked and based on ICL’s record with Ferguson we’ll end up building a huge big meteor protection dome over the compelket world except Sweden and Tanzania or all be told to live underground forever then a small pebble will be discovered and they will all shout “see we told you so, we were right”.

60781 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #521 of 1437 🔗

Here is the University of Glasgow link:

https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_712908_en.html

60824 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #522 of 1437 🔗

Given the absurdities of what is going on and the constant need to draw it out as long as possible, I would not rule anything out and this could therefore very well be true.

60774 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 11, #523 of 1437 🔗

A Spitfire has just flown over my house. A British government is telling me to wear a face-mask for no demonstrable reason. I am struggling to reconcile these two events.

60810 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bugle, 12, #524 of 1437 🔗

All those who comply are traitors to our ancestors who fought so bitterly and sacrificed their lives over centuries to build and preserve what we inherited, and are now wilfully relinquishing for nothing in a matter of months. They sacrificed their lives for our freedoms, and we have sacrificed these freedoms for our lives. Actually not even that, because this is not living.

60777 MDH, replying to MDH, 19, #525 of 1437 🔗

We’ve booked a few days away in August staying with a friend of the OH who has just opened a café with accommodation. With these new regs I’m wondering if we’ll have to don the burka while on public view.

I’ve just been to the Sainsbury’s Local to get plenty of milk so I don’t have to worry for a few days (ha!). No masks on staff, but several among customers. Some 20-something did the scalded cat routine.

One thing that is so dreadful about the mask situation is it is humiliating . The government is forcing its citizens to play along with a ruling that they know to be useless. It is literally driving me mad.

60782 ▶▶ RickH, replying to MDH, 16, #526 of 1437 🔗

One thing that is so dreadful about the mask situation is it is humiliating .”

Of course – a classic tactic for enforcing subservience.

61089 ▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to RickH, #527 of 1437 🔗

It was a common practice in the old soviet union. Lets people know who is the boss…the more absurd the ruling the greater the humiliation.

60780 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 33, #528 of 1437 🔗

There is only one way to get my freedom back

Non violent civil disobedience

I will not be telling porkies in order to get out of wearing a face mask. I will look them straight in the eye and say no

Let the state do it’s worst

I will get on a bus and sit down. If the driver says get off, I will refuse. If they threaten to call the police I will say say go on then. If the police arrive I will refuse to leave and refuse to give them my name and address. That will force them to arrest me

I will go into a shop, if they refuse me entry I will walk in anyway. If they threaten to call the police I will say go on then etc

I will not carry any identification on me. I will stay in custody for as long as I can by refusing to co-operate

Mrs Dick is pushing the shame thing because she knows she can’t enforce face nappy wearing. Every Police Officer will be off the streets queuing up outside custody suites within a couple of hours

What you do is up to you

60787 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cecil B, 4, #529 of 1437 🔗

Good luck to you – it’s the right approach, though it won’t work for everyone.

I would propose one variation – I tend to feel that if I own a shop I should be able to decide who comes in or not. I know that’s not the law as it stands (discrimination legislation etc) but I think there’s a case for it – my shop, my rules. Same with a taxi. You are free to go somewhere else who doesn’t refuse you entry. With bigger shops it’s a bit different, and obviously if it’s the only shop of its kind, or they all refuse you, then you run out of options.

But I’m nit picking.

60817 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Julian, 8, #530 of 1437 🔗

It’s the right of a shop owner to refuse you entry, but not for refusing to wear a mask as it is not the shop’s edict and they wouldn’t normally be demanding it: for why would you turn business away.? If you’re drunk, yes, on drugs, yes (if you can tell) for being abusive, yes, but not for refusing to wear a mask anymore than you can refuse someone entry for being in a wheelchair.

60790 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cecil B, 4, #531 of 1437 🔗

Well done. Great approach and that is what all should do that are against compulsory mask wearing. Obviously adapt this approach to suit the individual.

60813 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Cecil B, 12, #532 of 1437 🔗

I’m with you and I do have a reason to be exempt. I’m not going to use it. If we don’t start now we will be under the yoke forever. Face masks will not be stopped at shops. Soon everywhere. In some countries even in your own damn homes. Start the fight back now!

60833 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cecil B, 2, #533 of 1437 🔗

Wow. Stunning and brave, as they say. Bravo.

60836 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #534 of 1437 🔗

And here’s a slogan. It’s brand new and I made it up, honest: Just Say No.

60784 richard riewer, 9, #535 of 1437 🔗

Fifty years ago Monty Python gave us The Ministry for Silly Walks. Today PM Boris Johnson has given us The Ministry of Wearing a Mask and Taking a Knee.

60792 Victoria, 7, #536 of 1437 🔗

Agree.

Unfortunately members of parliament is so useless that legislation is implemented without them being consulted or voted on it. Wake up people this is no longer a democracy.

60807 Gerry Mandarin, 11, #537 of 1437 🔗

Terry Pratchett had the right quote for whose that wear the face-nappy. I paraphrase it here as I can’t be bothered to locate the actual words.

Who needs whips and chains when their minds are successfully subdued.

60816 KBuchanan, 5, #538 of 1437 🔗

Indeed and note that the face covering edict is tomorrow and not last Friday as Parliament is now in recess for the summer.

60819 Edna, 11, #539 of 1437 🔗

My husband and I have just agreed that we feel like Rick & Ilsa (Casablanca), drinking all the Champagne before the Germans arrive in Paris. We’ll be having a  farewell drink to freedom to-night!!

60820 smileymiley, 10, #540 of 1437 🔗

Updated 17th July. You seriously could not make this up.

“It is important to know that the evidence of the benefit of using a face covering to protect others is weak and the effect is likely to be small”

https://t.co/C1o60iQqb9

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19/offices-and-contact-centres#offices-6-1

60822 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 11, #541 of 1437 🔗

Pre print but explosive. New Study: https://advance.sagepub.com/articles/Comment_on_Flaxman_et_al_2020_The_illusory_effects_of_non-pharmaceutical_interventions_on_COVID-19_in_Europe/12479987/1

Flaxman et al. (Nature, 8 June 2020, https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-020-2405-7 , 2020) infer that non-pharmaceutical interventions conducted by several European countries considerably reduced effective reproduction numbers and saved millions of lives. We show that their method is ill-conceived and that the alleged effects are artefacts. Moreover, we demonstrate that the United Kingdom’s lockdown was both superfluous and ineffective.

61847 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to BecJT, #542 of 1437 🔗

Hmm… Not sure about the validity of the argument or how seriously it can be taken. See, for example, the BTL comment on another of the author’s corona related articles:
.’Alleged statistical errors, an unsuitable calculation method combined with vague doubts about the way in which fatalities are counted, seem to aim to create confusion and raise doubts with seemingly “scientific” arguments backed up by spurious arguments.

This impression is matched by the fact that the author of this article has published a similar article (in German and with further arguments whose evidence refutes his own theses) in several online media.[1][2]

Both of these publications state that this article was “submitted for publication to a professional journal and has already appeared as an un-reviewed preprint”. The according link refers to this page.

I have the strong impression that the purpose of the publication here is merely to give both versions of the article a “scientific” touch.’

60827 mhcp, 1, #543 of 1437 🔗

With regards to the seat belt analogy and masks:

A long standing critic of wearing seat belts to improve road safety is John Adams. Now you may think he is mad but the data backs up what he says: road deaths plateau after the introduction of seat belt laws. In fact a reducing trend is often curtailed once seat belts become mandatory. It is all to do with our perception of risk but also something called Cultural theory:

“All this is fertile ground for Cultural Theory. The hundreds of thousands of people killed world-wide every year in road accidents constitute a large problem. Large problems and inconclusive information make people uncomfortable. The debate about seat belt laws appears to be as far as ever from resolution despite more than two decades of experience and volumes of statistical evidence. Cultural Theory suggests that in the face of such uncertainty the informational vacuum will be filled with contradictory certitudes; belief and conviction serve as substitutes for factual knowledge. Cultural Theory further suggests that these beliefs and convictions assume distinctive and predictable forms depending on their adherents.”

From http://john-adams.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2006/failure%20of%20seatbelt%20legislation.pdf

We have seen a lot of this over the last months with Covid. But in this case measuring Covid has been very difficult

60828 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #544 of 1437 🔗

here is link to the transcript of the Parliamentary Committee for Health and Social Care on 21 July 2020 when Whitty was questioned:

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/747/pdf/

He did not exactly impress.

60851 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #545 of 1437 🔗

Few quotes from Whitty:

“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

“frankly I was not expecting that question” – more than once

60889 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #546 of 1437 🔗

That’s a very interesting set of minutes, in that it reveals the fundamental problem of a social elite of scientists (i.e the OBN’s with ‘Sir’ etc. attached) have had a game of Chinese whispers and convinced themselves about the level of threat posed by this virus.

It’s not just Whitty -the group-think exhibited – the very antithesis of good science – is immense, with no-one (admittedly after a quick read-through) seeming to say

“Hang on a minute : is that right?”

All are piling onto the bandwagon of agony, and *want* to believe the narrative of extreme seriousness and the nature of the ‘exceptional times’ that enhances their importance.

If this is the narrow spectrum of advice that remarkably dim politicians have been given, it’s hardly surprising that we are so far up shit creek.

One of the main error traps they fall into is that because this virus has travelled across the world, mimicking pandemic spread, then that equates to seriousness. Which it doesn’t. It’s a widespread mild virus that can affect the vulnerable in a serious way – just like other viruses that induce respiratory infections.

Rarely have epidemiologists and related branches received so much attention. Look to that for the reasons for all this hyperbole and hysteria, whilst listening to those who kept their eye on the real science in the wider sense.

61210 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 1, #547 of 1437 🔗

Is a global pandemic really excellent for these guys just on a personal career level? Like a soldier with a campaign medal. Is there an incentive to want a pandemic if you are in these positions?

This is a separate thought to the clear corrupted interests and financial incentives.

61586 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #548 of 1437 🔗

There’s a global coronovirus pandemic every year called the common cold. The media are happy for us to believe that Pandemic means more virulent or hurty when all it means is occurring in a given number of countries at the same time.

60829 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 14, #549 of 1437 🔗

Schroedinger’s Cafe – I think I get it now.

I was baffled last night with the buying a sandwich thing, but now I’ve unravelled it. If you go into a cafe and buy a sandwich to take out, you are ‘shopping’ (cafe is now shop), and so must wear a mask. But if you sit down and order, you are ‘dining out’ (shop is now cafe), and so no mask.

How close to the counter can you go before you become a ‘shopper’?

All because “we say you have to have a mask in shops and we don’t want you making us look silly(er)”.

And this is UK law??

60832 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #550 of 1437 🔗

If you bring your own chair does that count?

60835 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mhcp, 5, #551 of 1437 🔗

Then you are a shopfitter, there for ‘work purposes’ and probably exempt? Alternatively, mhcp, just make some shit up. Works for government!

61592 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mhcp, #552 of 1437 🔗

Wheelchair user wishing to take out ?

60838 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #553 of 1437 🔗

What happens if you go in not wearing a mask? Do they assume you’re eating in or choose to stop serving if you say you’re taking out?

Is it a little like the petrol/kiosk conumdrum?

60839 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 11, #554 of 1437 🔗

Richie Allen interviews Simon Dolan (21min in) – already mentioned by someone else earlier.
Excellent stuff!

  • Re appeal case – if not allowed to appeal we are not in a democracy but a dictatorship
  • Silent majority do not agree with the lockdown and masks, but not able to make their voices heard
  • Report drafted in April projecting that 200,000 people will die from non-coved if they implemented lockdown (based on a 3 week lockdown) v the 45,000 that died (this number is questionable). So Government knew this massive death number upfront. Despite this, lockdown continued for months and this number will increase
  • If people do not understand numbers, then they have an emotional response because the Government did a great job in scaring them
  • Many people no longer divided along traditional political lines such as labour, conservative but now more ito rights & liberties, no lockdown, no masks v lockdown and masks.
  • There is a massive void in politics. Simon again confirmed that he will sponsor a party that stands for freedom of speech, liberties, responsibly for own life and pursuit of happiness
  • If going to an establishment without a mask and get questioned about your right not to wear a mask, film the encounter and send that to Simon. They will do a prima facie case for discrimination against the disabled, a test case
  • Great believer in rights. if they do not allow you to shop at the establishment without a mask it is within your rights to shop elsewhere

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/richieallen/episodes/2020-07-22T11_18_32-07_00

60867 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 1, #555 of 1437 🔗

Silent majority do not agree with the lockdown”

I’m not sure about that – but that’s the problem with alleged ‘silent majorities’ they tend to have nothing to say.

60872 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 3, #556 of 1437 🔗

no longer divided along traditional political lines”

I think that yo’re absolutely right on that, in the sense that the old (and pretty crude) left/right axis of political definition has shrunk into the background over Covid, whilst the salience of the libertarian/authoritarian axis has grown tremendously.

60943 ▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to RickH, 2, #557 of 1437 🔗

I feel the issue has been divisive for some time.

61198 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 1, #558 of 1437 🔗

Good work victoria. Appreciate you providing summary.

60840 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #559 of 1437 🔗

If the people putting questions to the “experts” can say something like this and believe it then no wonder we’re all screwed:

“We all know that voluntary social distancing was introduced on 16 March, and it was made compulsory a week later on 23 March.”

This classic from the Chair of the Committee – all this time and he still does not know guidelines are not law.

60855 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #560 of 1437 🔗

I mean ‘voluntary social distancing’ has been in place for the whole of time if they really stop to think about it, it certainly wasn’t ‘introduced’ on 16th March. Wording is important, exposes them for not caring about accuracy immediately.

60844 Kelly deacons, replying to Kelly deacons, 13, #561 of 1437 🔗

SW London town.1%wearing masks.

Asked Scope charity shop could I come in mask less.Two assts. said no (nicely),explained exemptions,they knew nothing about them!called manager who said I would be welcome mask less.

Morrisons,asked first man on door who said I could shop maskless from tomorrow.The 2nd assistant chap queried this because he too knew nothing about exemptions.

Told my local conv.shop I would not wear a mask,he too said I was welcome anytime-but also seemed to know nothing about exemptions.

So,let’s be bold, get the word out there…..about exemptions,futility of masks etc……but most of all,let’s give the mask wearers what they cannot give us……..a lovely happy smile.

60847 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Kelly deacons, 4, #562 of 1437 🔗

Ha, have just posted my little story of trip in Wimbledon today too, witnessing same, very little voluntary mask use on show, and those that are are doing so are a danger to themselves.

60875 ▶▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to Mark II, 4, #563 of 1437 🔗

Thanks Mark,….I live just down the road from Wimbledon….Mitcham! Early days I know,but I am getting a really relaxed vibe from shops.

60910 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Kelly deacons, 3, #564 of 1437 🔗

Yeah I’m in Wimbledon Chase so very near Mitcham too, also seems very relaxed by ours, but it has done so for a long time now.

I’m pretty sure if they just re-opened everything in London _normally_ tomorrow, people would be back to it, the virus has long since finished with our City… so much for ‘local measures from now on’ approach that we were supposed to be getting – in with a blanket muzzling for no reason.

60914 ▶▶▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Mark II, 4, #565 of 1437 🔗

This is so obvious it’s a great part of what’s driving me nuts. What possible reasoning can there be for, just as people feel like getting back out there (and spending money FFS), imposing a completely useless law which intimates that everyone’s life is at risk if they so much as breathe clean air?

60846 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 11, #566 of 1437 🔗

Pleased and amused by my little lunch break trip to Wickes (Wimbledon, London) just now. No masks on staff, though woman who was helping me said a couple of staff do, she said the perspex is stupid as they and customers always lean around it to actually hear each other. She said they’re not being forced to muzzle up from tomorrow, and she wont be. Very pleasing to hear, and she sorted my issue in 15 minutes, when other colleagues have been dragging their heels for months too so double win.

Amused because driving there (in horrendous traffic, I should’ve cycled but thought it might save me time, forgot everyone is driving again now that public transport is still advised against) I saw the farce of mask wearing in full flow. From youngsters inexplicably masked up, to people at bus stops with them dangling round their necks, to one womans falling off and onto the floor as she walked (which she then picked up and put back on her face, lol!) and to couples with 1 masked and 1 unmasked (surely they both see the stupidity in that!). This rule is not just ridiculous, it is really obvious that despite what Media Polls keep claiming, the large majority of people do not really support it, whatever they might say to a pollster. Maybe in their heads they think they should support it, but actions speak louder than words, and certainly around here it is a tiny minority of people choosing to wear them or wear them ‘properly’.

60864 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 3, #567 of 1437 🔗

“everyone is driving again now that public transport is still advised against”

There’ a massive irony here, since about the *only* benefit from Lock-Up that I can divine is that pollution in the atmosphere has massively declined, and the clarity of the air is visibly improved.

61620 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark II, #568 of 1437 🔗

“Horrendous traffic…” around my way there is still no morning rush hour but come late morning the approach roads and city centre are as busy as the olden days. People might be afraid to go to work but they’re not afraid to go shopping and this lot are not working from home either (County Hall staff car park still empty).

60848 Edna, 8, #569 of 1437 🔗

The law on face soverings is now there to read:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/contents/made
And it doesn’t expire for 12 months.

60850 Mike Smith, 7, #570 of 1437 🔗

Lots of people out and about. I passed at least a hundred, maybe more. Eight wearing masks and three equipped but not wearing. Mostly young, and a few middle aged. We’ll see what happens tomorrow.

60905 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to kbeanie, 2, #572 of 1437 🔗

12 months expiry!! 12 months! for fuck sake… They’re not even bothering to hide the fact they have no plan whatsoever anymore.

60935 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mark II, 1, #573 of 1437 🔗

Also review only required within 6 months:

9. The Secretary of State must review the need for the requirements imposed by these Regulations before the end of the period of six months beginning with the day on which they come into force.

60963 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark II, 5, #574 of 1437 🔗

I looked at my MP’s website; she has a page with her generic “responses” to things her constituents have contacted her about. She had this to say on masks: “ For now, I would implore all XXXXXXX residents to continue to comply with all of the rules so that normal life can return to us soon
So in her world, soon is at least 6 months, probably more like 12, or forever. I don’t know much about her. I wonder if some backbench MPs are really pretty thick and apathetic and lazy and actually believe that it’s all for public health.

61262 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #575 of 1437 🔗

I’ll go with thick.

60854 richard riewer, 1, #576 of 1437 🔗

The powers that be are testing our mettle. Show them who’s boss with Graphene.

60856 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #577 of 1437 🔗

Also on Ritchie Allen show – a google source told him that they (Google, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter) are planning to purge all pages of dissenting voices of so-called misinformation (anything against the current Covid scenario i.e no masks, no vaccinations, alternative remedies, etc).
Protect yourself and make backup copies of all your information, video’s etc

Re the Russian interference / spy thing – the fact that Russia is behind this is nonsense, it is just an excuse to legislate for mass censorship.

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/richieallen/episodes/2020-07-22T11_18_32-07_00

60860 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #578 of 1437 🔗

Breaking NEWS: Medical journal reveals a 6-step plan to implement a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine
 “In the paper, published on June 26, 2020, the authors admit that a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is likely “months to years” away. However, they assert that officials should waste no time in setting out guidelines that will help determine how and when to implement mass COVID-19 vaccine mandates.

Why?
Because without “ensuring a high enough vaccination rate to achieve herd immunity,” the authors claim, the country remains highly vulnerable to the so-called ravages of the SARS-CoV-2 virus, despite the fact that even the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) admits that most people who get COVID-19 will have only a mild illness at worst.

How to convince public to get on board with mandatory mass vaccination: Cook the books to make the COVID-19 pandemic worse than it really is”
https://www.naturalhealth365.com/required-sars-cov-2-shot-3489.html

60893 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Victoria, 2, #579 of 1437 🔗

The above average death rate occurred after lockdown and fell back below average after lockdown was eased. The lockdown measures caused the above average death rates.

60918 ▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Steve Hayes, #580 of 1437 🔗

Whilst you may be right, correlation does not indicate causation

60942 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Polemon2, #581 of 1437 🔗

Correlation does not prove causation, but absence of correlation does disprove causation.

60936 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Victoria, 2, #582 of 1437 🔗

That name you use is the WHO excuse not to use China in the virus name. Should never be used CCP Virus is far more apt.

60859 ambwozere, replying to ambwozere, 5, #583 of 1437 🔗

A hair salon who has allowed staff not to wear masks or visors been dobbed in by a nice friendly local!

https://twitter.com/vickyintheuk/status/1286267949536481282?s=20

60861 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to ambwozere, 1, #584 of 1437 🔗

Not sure how you can be ‘dobbed in’ for something that isnt breaking the law… yet.

60863 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Mark II, 6, #585 of 1437 🔗

Well the owner has been sent a letter giving her 28 days presumably to comply with the guidelines which aren’t law so none of it makes any sense.

60870 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to ambwozere, 8, #586 of 1437 🔗

If the letter says anything about health and safety legislation then do a risk assessment including all the info from on here proving face masks not required and use that against them.

Councils cannot enforce HS&E legislation if the business risk assessment goes against guidelines – I have that in writing from them and posted their actual replies on here previously.

61631 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark II, #587 of 1437 🔗

It will have been one of the conditions for allowing her to re-open her business.
So in addition to half the population already in thrall to the state (benefits, state sector employment, pensions etc) can be added a couple of million independent operators now firmly in the grip of LAs, no vaccine, no permit.

60866 MDH, replying to MDH, 40, #588 of 1437 🔗

Sorry to use this board as group therapy, but… The guidance re: care homes is farcical (no suprise there). One visitor per resident. No physical contact.

FFS My mum is 87, bedridden, blind, and has dementia. My greatest fear during this whole f*ck-up is that she would die without me seeing her. Now I find I’m going to have to stand in the doorway to her room and shout at her. And no-one else – my sister, my mum’s 85-year-old cousin, her friends – will even get near her.

If this isn’t criminal, what is? HAVE THEY NO ******* DECENCY?

60871 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to MDH, 15, #589 of 1437 🔗

It’s the one area and issue where I have changed my mind since April.
Shielding and isolating the vulnerable is important, but inhumane if they or their relatives aren’t also given the choice to take more Corona risks instead.

60876 ▶▶ birdwatcher, replying to MDH, #590 of 1437 🔗

This is only happening because people are going along with it instead of fighting it. Its ‘guidance’ not ‘law’, and even if was law theres still grounds to fight it. If everyone just gives up their personal power and does as theyre told then all is truly lost, and vulnerable people will die alone and terrified.

60879 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to MDH, 9, #591 of 1437 🔗

Speak to the social worker involved and ask for a best interests meeting. Explain that – if your mother had mental capacity – she would likely make the ‘unwise’ choice to have close contact with her loved ones despite the risks (I know).

I suspect you will be met with more empathy than trying to go through the care home who *sometimes* run these places like little fiefdoms.

Alternatively, raise a s21a challenge as RPR. Search your local IMCA service if you need help with this.

60903 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to MDH, 8, #592 of 1437 🔗

We are dealing with sociopaths they are not normal human beings.

60925 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to MDH, #593 of 1437 🔗

They do not have any decency, they are murdering swine and we need to return in kind.

60970 ▶▶ annie, replying to MDH, 12, #594 of 1437 🔗

The answer is ‘no’. Dozens if other stories confirm it.
Walk into the room and take your mother’s hand, and if they protest, record the interchange on you phone and put it on social media, send it to Peter Hitchens, send it to Simon Dolan, play it on loudspeakers in the street, let the world know what vicious sadists are ruling the lives of the old and helpless.

61200 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to MDH, #595 of 1437 🔗

No they haven’t.

60869 Bobblybob, 12, #596 of 1437 🔗

They’ve published the SI today to cover shops (amended the older regulation over transport):
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/regulation/5/made
Unless I’m reading that incorrectly, only a ‘relevant person’ can ask you to put a mask on or ask you to leave a premises, a relevant person being police or transport staff – ie. there’s no power under this regulation for shop staff to either ask you to mask up or leave. So the staff can only ask you to leave their premises with their rights under civil law.

If anyone asks you to mask up or leave, I guess ask them to give you their legal position for requesting this and then confuse them even more… give you something to do while you’re waiting for the cop that will never arrive.

60873 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 21, #597 of 1437 🔗

500.000 participants planned/hoped for at a mass demonstration against all the Corona responses in Berlin on 1.8..
Bus operators very supportive and diligent in organising it and transport.
Thrifty Swabians the most active.

When will the Brits of Reason and Enlightenment get their MOJO back?!

60932 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #598 of 1437 🔗

Muddy Waters – Got my Mojo Working
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhTCYqJsfqs

60961 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jay Berger, 10, #599 of 1437 🔗

God knows. When they all realise they’ve been fooled. An easy job with many of them.

Very best wishes for the demo. Sock it to ’em..
Let us know how it went, because you can bet our media won’t be reporting it. The bastards.

61190 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #600 of 1437 🔗

I’m unsure if this is a good thing or a bad, but Brits are generally slow to be stirred. Often mistaken for placidity, they can be pushed, prodded, goaded, taunted, threatened and teased.

There is however a limit. Sooner or later, somebody makes that little push too far, and the dam fractures. It does not happen gradually, but collapses all at once and the anger, for so long bubbling under the surface, spills out.

When that moment comes, only God knows how it will end.

But that moment will come.

60877 Basics, replying to Basics, #601 of 1437 🔗

Should the Covid-19 vaccines be compulsory?

A tv depate from GMB 2 days ago
Oxford Scientist Julian Salvuescu
RS Public health Duncan Stevenson
Dr Bahat Pankhania Exeter Uni
Sarah Jarvis ‘dr’ GP

6 minutes
https://youtu.be/25LbHn3byI8

60880 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #602 of 1437 🔗

Oxford guy is horredous in his arrogance. Offensively in my view. To be effective all need to take the vaccine for herd immunity. He uses the lockdown death rates to guilt trip his arguement and uses the stupid comparion to seat belts. He is quite a man. The other views argue a more moderate stance about informed consent.

60885 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 5, #603 of 1437 🔗

By “informed consent” they usually mean brain washing.

60892 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 1, #604 of 1437 🔗

Absolutely. They are sure of thrmselves they can inform you to get their will. For a growing number on this particular dangerously warpspeeded vaccine many will not be willing – more than ever before I would say.

60909 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tenchy, #605 of 1437 🔗

The “informed consent” is the phase after a thorough brainwashing.

60930 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Basics, 2, #606 of 1437 🔗

Yes the seat belts comparison is less stupid than the ventilator one the virtuous ones espouse. Both are ludicrous and annoying.

60882 richard riewer, #607 of 1437 🔗

Best of British proudly presents, The Pretenders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDeHAM93fuc

60883 Victoria, 5, #608 of 1437 🔗

Great article by Rob Verkerk, Alliance for Natural Health:

“I’ve not hidden my dismay about what’s happening in the world of covid vaccines that we’re all meant to be eagerly awaiting as a means of releasing us (next year?) from the covid restrictions that threaten to destroy livelihoods and economies.

Let’s not condemn people as anti-vaxxers or vaccine hesitants when many of us are simply concerned about risks that we can’t evaluate because the data are hidden. We might be accused of being ignorant for not blindly accepting untried genetically engineered technologies, but let’s flip the coin and suggest that if governments and vaccine companies want us to build trust in their technologies, they better start sharing their data openly and transparently.”

Covid vaccines – like apples and oranges
“As we start to digest the flurry of Phase 1 and 2 clinical trial reports coming out in some of the world’s most prestigious journals, we’ve been increasingly shocked. It’s a million miles from the kind of transparency we believe is in the public interest that we outline in our Vaccine Transparency Manifesto .

Which data are hidden?
Here are our three top concerns:

1. Data disclosure is definitely not transparent . Even in the case of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine trial with its 130 pages of supplementary data, there are huge holes in the data – including about which subjects suffered which adverse reactions, and no breakdown of the adverse reaction data for the biggest groups tested.

2. The trial designs are not standardised . Take the two non-replicating viral vector vaccines, the Chinese CanSino Biologics/Beijing Institute for Technology one and the Oxford/AstraZeneca one. Both trials are published in the same journal, The Lancet , one of the world’s most prestigious medical journals. The CanSino one is double blind, the Oxford one single blind. Adverse events for the two trials cover entirely different time periods: 14 days for the CanSino vaccine, and solicited adverse event reports in the first 7 days following vaccination in the case of the Oxford vaccine and 28 days for unsolicited reactions. Apples and oranges.

3. Prestigious journals have dropped their standards for research reporting . Tell us how The Lancet allows the Methods in the CanSino trial to mention that the control involves only the adjuvant, yet fails to mention what it is – even broadly speaking, assuming some might argue for confidentiality to protect intellectual property. Wasn’t this all meant to be for the greater good, and open book? Why wasn’t the detailed data for the CanSino trial published in the The Lancet , when in the same journal, the Oxford trial included 130 pages of supplementary data? But in this, why is the detailed breakdown of adverse event reactions for the most important Group 2/4 plain missing? Why is it we can’t work out which subjects suffered from multiple adverse reactions?”

https://www.anhinternational.org/news/covid-vaccines-like-apples-and-oranges/

60890 Basics, replying to Basics, 31, #609 of 1437 🔗

Skynews live interview.

SAGE professor. ROBERT DINGWELL has made a report and is interviewed aboht it.

Absolutely arguing against masks stating no evidence – negligible to none existent at best. Should be a matter of choice. Not appropriate to make law. He will comply with the law but says its not helpful or appropriate.

15.35pm today.

Psychology of mask message too wont get folk out to shop and actually hinder restart of economy he says.

60901 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Basics, 4, #610 of 1437 🔗

Glad to hear a voice of sanity piping up, but such is my level of optimism I’m already assuming they’ve 10 other voices lined up to take him to task, without ever actually addressing anything he says. Did you watch it? Were the presenters any less rude than I’m imagining?

Saw Dolan being interviewed by some absolute c**t on TalkRadio earlier, playing with his phone, flicking through papers, whilst Dolan was talking and then just dismissed anything he said and tried to turn it into an argument of residency.

60939 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark II, 9, #611 of 1437 🔗

Was polite and he was not harrassed or interupted. It was good. Sky news followed soon after with an interview of a ¿federation of covenience stores? Reprasentative who was on to talk about how their members will NOT be enforcing the ruling.
All good vibes really.

60984 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, 3, #612 of 1437 🔗

Think Dingwall was NERVTAG, not SAGE, but I might be wrong. He’s been relatively sceptical from the start, but sadly no one in government seems to listen to him.

61026 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #613 of 1437 🔗

NERVETAG reminds me of TAGNUT, dunno why.

61193 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, #614 of 1437 🔗

He nodded to being part of SAGE

61656 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, #615 of 1437 🔗

Yes you’re right Dingwall is nervtag

60895 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 29, #616 of 1437 🔗

Compulsory face nappy summary here:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/23/face-masks-mandatory-shops-takeaways-stations-england-friday

The health secretary, Matt Hancock, said: “As we move into the next stage of easing restrictions [imposing restrictions] for the public, it is vital we continue to shop safely so that we can make the most of our fantastic retail industry this summer [bugger it up to the extent that it goes out of business].

“Everyone must play their part in fighting this virus by following this new guidance. I also want to thank the British public for all the sacrifices they are making to help keep this country safe.”

What an absolute tosser that man is!

60900 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Tenchy, 10, #617 of 1437 🔗

How fucking stupid are they? In banks but not theatres? In takeaways but not concerts? I know there is no logic but I want to say where is the logic? I cannot believe this country can become so Kafkaesque.

60904 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Bella, 9, #618 of 1437 🔗

Bella, you’re not alone in violent feelings. It’s inevitable when you’re surrounded by behaviour which every fibre of your being tells you is idiotic. Remember what Mr Lydon sang: “Anger is an energy…”.

60917 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Bella, 8, #619 of 1437 🔗

They are totally disconnected from the real world. Do they really think that all the late-night takeaways are going to turn away people without masks coming out of pubs? If we don’t make a stand here, we will be stuck with compulsory mask-wearing for years, maybe forever.

60919 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bella, 17, #620 of 1437 🔗

It’s a totalitarian technique.Get you to agree to something you both know is a lie.

60958 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 12, #621 of 1437 🔗

I’m not agreeing to it. I won’t ever agree to it. I see no point in living in subjugation. I’ve been happy to stand corrected in respect of my ‘soft’ conspiracy theories being too extreme up until recently. But not now. Not when they are forcing us into facemasks, because we all know it won’t stop here. It will soon be an edict to be worn everywhere. So can we please stop pretending that this anything about a virus now and man the barricades? So angry I can’t string a sentence together.

60979 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bella, 7, #622 of 1437 🔗

Im with you.Until the mask edict I wasn’t sure whether it was a cock up or conspiracy.There is no doubt now but what do we do.I share your anger and frustration

61039 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 7, #623 of 1437 🔗

It was actually visible as a lie back in April/May when it was possible to see the same media techniques being used that were used against Corbyn and the Labour Party (I’m writing about facts – not quotidian party political wrangling)

Two aspects are key :

  1. The distortion of events – to the point of direct lies
  2. The exclusion of contrary information

You also tend to see the paw-prints of establishment channels of information, such as the security services, feeding distortions to the media. The Guardian and Beeb are always a good litmus to examine if you want to know what’s coming down the tube; you can see the vaccine narrative shaping up at the moment. Watch your backs.

However – when you dig and see that the April spike in mortality was nothing particularly exceptional, and yet the ‘story’ is one of mayhem and disaster – you know that it’s all a confection.

61054 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 5, #624 of 1437 🔗

It’s a conspiracy alright. We see with our own eyes who’s one of them and who’s not. Unfortunately it’s almost all of them. No matter where you go in society it’s being controlled by people who don’t work for Britain but are part of a New World Order. They were doing it all in secret for years but for some reason they’ve let themselves be known. This for me is worrying because it suggests that they have in fact secured total control and they don’t see themselves losing. Basically we’re all screwed. I wonder when these leftists are gonna work out that they too are under their jackboot. leftists think they are revolutionaries but are so deluded they’re leading the flock over the edge into total tyranny. Surely some of them must see this.

61062 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Biker, 5, #625 of 1437 🔗

More now than every Biker, the have entered the room now, the light is on them, we can see them clearly and the door has shut behind them.

61609 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Biker, 1, #626 of 1437 🔗

Too dim to realise.we have a fascist government who have taken nearly all of our rights away and they attack them for not doing it soon enough and beg for more.The frightening thing is there is zero opposition in Parliament or media and this is worldwide.

61042 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella, 13, #627 of 1437 🔗

Bella, I wrote this to another sceptic just a few minutes ago. I was trying to give some hope and confidence to the person I was writing to.

**********************
Re the shopping/mask thing, I have just been into town. My general impression is this. Lots of small shops won’t be enforcing anything and probably neither will the bigger ones. My attitude is the rules are insane and I ignore them. Anybody who think there are necessary is insane. I actually am starting to find it funny. Perhaps its because I have gone past caring now. I can’t stop people being idiots. If they want to be idiots, well more fool them.

I really don’t care and most of the time I genuinely don’t know what the rules are as I really can’t be bothered to find out. I am starting to find them quite funny actually and taking the piss does cheer me up and helps me cope with it all.

I am going to take the position of just not wearing one, if they stop me from entering, well fair enough, I will find another shop. I might argue my corner and I think this will be pretty easy to do as well.

Don’t forget that you will be dealing with a young shop assistant person, totally demoralised and PPE’ed up the wazzooo and who has already spoken to loads of other customers who won’t wear a mask either. They don’t care and they have been told not to challenge anybody. If you meet a proper zelot well perhaps talk to their boss if you want a fight, or just go somewhere else. There are a few independent shops round here and I am sure most of them won’t be enforcing anything either.

Don’t forget the exemption card and landyards, you could deploy them in a jiffy. I am not going to wear one on display. If having one gives you confidence then wear one. Or just keep it in your pocket.

I would also say, don’t worry about other people giving you problems. It’s easier for me to say that as I a big hairy beardy bloke but honestly I just cannot see anybody threatening you unless you are really really really unlucky. Sure you will meet zealots that might tut at the worst say something but honestly, my response will most likely be to say “duh EXEMPT!”. However I do need to be careful to make sure I am in “my best frame of mind”, calm and collected and in a good mood to deal with this. The worst thing that could happen with me is that I get angry. I really need to watch this one.

I do get angry with these people who think all this madness is a good idea and have no patience what so ever for people who try put their bullshit on me. The police will not be handing out fines either and even if they do its no worse than a parking ticket or driving in a bus lane. So what.

I am getting used to seeing masked up people now too. IT does freak me out because its a very visual sign of the psy-op and compliance with it but actually I am starting not to give a shit either. Don’t get me wrong, I do feel sorry for them too and pity and sympathy is way better than anger. Hopefully any such interaction will go along the lines of a calm few words and I will be off.

That said, I am going to avoid shopping for a while until everybody calms down. Dashing out on Friday for some militant maskless shopping probably isn’t the best approach for me. I will leave that up to the fighty people and they can be in the first wave!

Hopefully in a week or two nobody apart from the very mental will be persisting with it all.

Also, don’t forget just a scarf will suffice IF YOU REALLY REALLY HAVE TO WEAR ONE. I got the air of pirateyness last night as a lot of the guys sitting about in the town square in the Weatherspoons were wearing pirate kneckscarves to pull up when needed, not such a bad look really. I even dug out my PLO scarf, a good excuse to wear it! Looking like a jihadi is a look I can go for.

One other thing I have noticed, there is lot of normal now going on which is very nice to see, masks aside. The mask thing is an attempt to get us all out and about again. Which we really need to do.

Don’t panic, its bad, but its really not as bad as you might think.

61125 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Two-Six, 3, #628 of 1437 🔗

Thanks Two-Six. If I had a Keffiyah scarf I might wear it, though then I’d be worried about being assassinated by Mossad

61141 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella, 1, #629 of 1437 🔗

lol

61163 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Two-Six, 1, #630 of 1437 🔗

I appreciated it Two-Six, thank you.

61475 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Bella, #631 of 1437 🔗

Absolutely, though in USA not UK, IMO it is obvious that the mask thing is a political, not medical, agenda, in both countries. Science doesn’t keep slipping back and forth like that.

The PTB keep stating that we “don’t know enough yet.”There is, actually, plenty of evidence on the permeability of cloth and surgical masks to aerosols. In effect they are pressuring scientists, also, to go along with an agenda that they know is false. So, yes, time-proven totalitarian frog in pot of water heating up method: When you have gone along with one absurdity, at what point do you stop? It gets harder and harder to draw any line. So, important to draw the line at this absurdity.
So, I am not wearing a mask out of doors here—only to actually go into the supermarket. .

61395 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bella, 1, #632 of 1437 🔗

Wait wait – in banks?

I smell ARMED ROBBERY

61398 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #633 of 1437 🔗

Lol imagine it, “999, we’ve just been robbed!

No, no, it’s not urgent. They were wearing masks”.

60915 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Tenchy, 13, #634 of 1437 🔗

I think you are insulting tossers by calling him one,I don’t think there is a word strong enough to describe what an utter oozing piece of slime that man is.

I shall be collecting our weekly takeaway tomorrow from the place we have used for 13 years,of course I will be without facial covering,I would hope not to get a negative response,I will have to see.

60956 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Paul, 3, #635 of 1437 🔗

Do they want to do business or not?

60960 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Tenchy, 8, #636 of 1437 🔗

Fuck Mat Handcock and the governments easing restrictions while imposing suffocation. As ever in the clown world it’s always the opposite of what they say. If they say there’s a virus, there’s not, if they say masks save lives, they don’t.

60987 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 6, #637 of 1437 🔗

I hate him SO much!

61022 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 9, #638 of 1437 🔗

I HATED HIM FIRST!!!

61078 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Two-Six, 8, #639 of 1437 🔗

I HATED HIM _MOST_!!!

61251 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 2, #640 of 1437 🔗

NO YOU DIDN’T, I DID!! AND I STILL DO!

61278 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to annie, 2, #641 of 1437 🔗

Well I LOATHE him – so there!

61580 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, #642 of 1437 🔗

lol

60896 Bella, replying to Bella, 26, #643 of 1437 🔗

Just been to my local village (suburb of coastal southern town) and was despondent to see ten times as many masks as I have seen before (no exaggeration). I got so miffed that I shouted at one woman what was she so frightened of?.Ashamed to say I coughed my way round the Co-op, driving at least two people out. I’ve never had these feelings before, even when two sheets to the wind, I feel violent now. I feel I want to badly hurt someone. Can we please get this revolution started?

60899 ▶▶ PaulK, replying to Bella, 4, #644 of 1437 🔗

Hi Bella. Are you Sussex based by any chance? I’ve started a group on Keep Britain Free for freedom fighters 😉

60938 ▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to PaulK, #645 of 1437 🔗

I am PaulK yes. Tell me more.

60940 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to PaulK, 3, #646 of 1437 🔗

I am PaulK, yes. Tell me more

60959 ▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to Bella, 2, #647 of 1437 🔗

Cool. Direct chat between members has been added to Keep Britain Free. I’ve started a group called Sussex meet up, currently six strong including The Good Statistician who did a talk last Sunday at Hyde Park. We’re keen to meet up, possibly in Brighton, provide support and see what we can do to help. Interested?

60964 ▶▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to PaulK, 2, #648 of 1437 🔗

I’m on a recruitment drive!

60965 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to PaulK, 1, #649 of 1437 🔗

Definitely interested. Travelling might be a problem if I don’t wear a Face Nappy. Is it easy to find on KBF or can you give me a link? Start small, okay, but let’s start.

60972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to Bella, 1, #650 of 1437 🔗

Awesome Bella.

I’ve been on the train quite a few times around here, as has one of the other guys. No issue whatsoever if you don’t wear a mask and if you did get asked, just say they cause you severe distress.

If you tell me your KBF profile name I’ll add you to the group. It’s a bit like WhatsApp or Google Chat. I live in Haywards Heath, others live in Brighton, Bexhill and Hastings.

60985 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to PaulK, 1, #651 of 1437 🔗

Dunno if I have a KBF profile name. I have joined though so must do. I’ll investigate. Only trouble is I might not find you here again, or you me.

60997 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to Bella, #652 of 1437 🔗

If you’ve logged in you’ll have a profile name. Depends if you do so with Facebook or your own details.

61034 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to PaulK, #653 of 1437 🔗

You can search for me on KFB if you prefer: Paul Kayser.

61040 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to PaulK, #654 of 1437 🔗

Oh dear, I think it’s quite buggy on a mobile. Feel free to email me if that’s easier: pakayser@gmail.com

61043 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to PaulK, #655 of 1437 🔗

I’m on an iMac which works OK but it doesn’t have direct messaging features on a mobile. I’ll message Simon Dolan and see what he can do. I’ve had direct replies from him!

61075 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to PaulK, #656 of 1437 🔗

It now works on a mobile Bella, not sure if that helps. I logged into KBF with Facebook without any issues. If I don’t hear from you I’ll message you again on here.

61085 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to PaulK, #657 of 1437 🔗

Actually I’m doing it from a laptop, but I’
ll email you direct

61037 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to PaulK, #658 of 1437 🔗

Can’t get in. Every time I try it says thanks for signing up and then never sends a link

60902 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Bella, 2, #659 of 1437 🔗

Does this mean you can claim the “severe distress” exemption?

60941 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Polemon2, #660 of 1437 🔗

Yes, guess so. But I have legitimate condition

60907 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bella, 14, #661 of 1437 🔗

I feel exactly the same Bella,we’ve just returned from a major stock up at the supermarket and it must have been around 60/40 in the favour of the muzzled,I was so wound up I was close to shouting at people too.Back in the car I said to my wife ‘I feel like hurting someone now,I feel like blowing things up,we’ve got to do something,it needs to stop !’,I think my outburst surprised us both,it’s not me to be thinking like that.

60911 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Paul, 12, #662 of 1437 🔗

It’s evident from what’s written here day after day that this particular policy is having a detrimental effect on mental and physical health. I’m seriously thinking about asking the quack for betablockers because my BP (normally excellent) is high all the time.

Can we bring a case against the Minister of Death? He’s certainly cutting my life expectancy.

60945 ▶▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to MDH, 2, #663 of 1437 🔗

Me too

61013 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to MDH, 5, #664 of 1437 🔗

No Don’t do it, the long term side effects are horrendous. Look after your own health as you might not have easy access to healthcare.

Take Ashwagandha with each meal.

61066 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to MDH, 1, #665 of 1437 🔗

Hibiscus tea is my ally against raised BP.

60944 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Paul, 6, #666 of 1437 🔗

Well I feel some gratification to know it’s not only me

60966 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Paul, 8, #667 of 1437 🔗

The government is waging psychological warfare on our people. We must not let them programme us to be angry – that way, they win. Remember that most people are not brave enough to stand up to this so we’re fighting for them too. Target your anger at the bastards in government who are doing this to us.

60998 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lili, 9, #668 of 1437 🔗

That’s good advice. Undoubtedly the government are now ‘the enemy’ – an occupying force, and not part of a normal democratic society.

There is certainly no moral obligation to follow any laws or regulations passed by them – they have rendered themselves illegitimate (in more than one sense 🙂 )

To put it in perspective : the scale of what they have done far outweighs the damage done by any terrorist activity, even if you only count the psychological damage and deaths that they have caused by Lock-Up and other measures. And that excludes less tangible, but real, harms.

The problem is in communicating the horrendous scale of it to those who are cowed into submission by fear.

61004 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to RickH, 4, #669 of 1437 🔗

the scale of what they have done far outweighs the damage done by any terrorist activity, even if you only count the psychological damage and deaths that they have caused by Lock-Up and other measures. And that excludes less tangible, but real, harms.

So True!!

60908 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bella, 3, #670 of 1437 🔗

Revolt, not Revolution.

60950 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to richard riewer, #671 of 1437 🔗

I would argue that this is semantics at the moment, the difference between the two being a matter of scale. I really wouldn’t wish the excesses of 18C France on anyone,but after the revolt what? Back to the same old?

60969 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Bella, 1, #672 of 1437 🔗

We hold them all to account. We can sort out the details of that later. For now, we fight to overturn all this crap.

61090 ▶▶▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to Bella, #673 of 1437 🔗

“Back to the same old?”

Personally, I think there’s a reasonable chance the courts could be persuaded to order a constitutional overhaul (and there are a few obvious changes which could transform the current system and would be very hard to argue against: An Age of Misrule ) … but it would need somebody who’s prepared to mount a legal challenge centred on the argument that the current system has forfeited its legitimacy.

60955 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Bella, 4, #674 of 1437 🔗

Bella, I know how you feel but we must stay calm and composed. Remember, we’re all representing this freedom cause and must give the Mask Dementors no reason to label us as a violent or mad group of people. Dignity at all times. xx

60978 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Lili, 6, #675 of 1437 🔗

I see your point of view and I do not, as a rule, advocate violence. I am just so wound up because the ‘thinkers’ are severely outnumbered by the subservient. Give most people their pizza and Coronation Street/Eastenders or some other wank and they’re happy. Open football stadiums and they’ll be ecstatic….and sodding grateful. I really believe I shouldn’t be on this planet. The problem with your approach Lili is that most people don’t recognise freedom or don’t care or both. Hence European collaboration with the Nazis. And my problem with your approach is that I have to surrender my freedoms too whilst I/we bide my/our time. Afraid I don’t have the patience.

61610 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bella, #676 of 1437 🔗

Yes I have had to conclude from this nonsense that most people really do not value freedom…..I dont think I realised that before.

60992 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bella, 3, #677 of 1437 🔗

Hi Bella

It is frustrating, I know, and I find it incredibly difficult to keep a lid on is much of the time, but we are stronger if we stay composed.

One of the ladies on the tills at my local Morrisons, is still refusing to talk to me after I had a got at her way back in March or April. She talks to my wife though.

I know it is difficult, I would love to rant anytime I do anything which is no longer done the old way.

Wife made an appointment at the opticians and they gave the spiel about masks, wife said I DO NOT NEED A MASK. So we will see how that goes.

61117 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Dave #KBF, #678 of 1437 🔗

Take your point DD, thanks

60993 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Bella, 4, #679 of 1437 🔗

Not like that in the Midlands. Just been to The Range home, leisure & garden store. Entry numbers being controlled though it’s basically a big shed. Notices all over the place “The government has made wearing of face coverings compulsory in shops”, no date stated – maybe a deliberate wording? – “Not our fault, guv, just covering our arses”. Only about 10% of customers and no staff wearing the things. Happy to accept cash payments.

61636 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella, #680 of 1437 🔗

Odd. Nearly everywhere I go it’s 80-90% people NOT wearing masks.

61639 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bella, #681 of 1437 🔗

Bella may be genuine but she could equally be an agent provocateur encouraging people to make violent statements so as to get the site banned. Bella’s claims about mask wearing levels don’t accord with anyone else’s here. That’s worrying for me. A 1000% increase in recent days? Anyone agree with Bella?

60897 Victoria, 9, #682 of 1437 🔗

The Information They Censor is Exactly What You Need To Know

60906 richard riewer, #683 of 1437 🔗

Now for The Coasters. What is the secret of your success?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txWidA5_vz4

60912 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 19, #684 of 1437 🔗

Just read the SI on masks.

They will fine you as it is an offense.

But only in shops.

So basically spas, hotels and the like are fine. But the places where you get your food, the essential places that didn’t shut down. Now it’s an offense but not if you are staff.

Also interesting that you don’t have to wear a mask in the dentist.

This is fucking idiocy. Shopping online then.

60916 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to mhcp, 1, #685 of 1437 🔗

Yes, I agree, but you have to wear masks in post offices too so tricky returning something..

60922 ▶▶ Humanity First, replying to mhcp, 4, #686 of 1437 🔗

Yes; list of exemptions in the Schedule is very interesting (and not very logical!)….

PART 2

Exemptions from definition of shop – regulation 2(2)

5. Public libraries and public reading rooms.

6. Premises providing professional, legal or financial services.

7. Premises (other than registered pharmacies) providing wholly or mainly medical or dental services, audiology services, chiropody, chiropractic, osteopathic, optometry or other medical services including services relating to mental health.

8. Veterinary services.

9. Cinemas.

10. Theatres.

11. Museums, galleries (other than for the sale or hire of artwork), aquariums, indoor zoos or visitor farms, or other indoor tourist, heritage or cultural sites.

12. Nightclubs.

13. Dance halls.

14. Bingo halls.

15. Concert halls, exhibition halls or other public hall.

16. Conference and exhibition centres.

17. Indoor fitness studios, gyms, dance studios, leisure centres, indoor swimming pools, water parks, bowling alleys, funfairs, theme parks, amusement arcades, indoor soft play areas, skating rinks or other premises for indoor sports, leisure, adventure or recreation activities.

18. Indoor sports arenas or stadia.

60947 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Humanity First, 1, #687 of 1437 🔗

It doesn’t include banks?

60949 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to matt, 5, #688 of 1437 🔗

Banks are included, but you can be asked to removed the nappy so they can identify you. LOL!

61023 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tenchy, 4, #689 of 1437 🔗

interesting wonder if it will be the return of bank robberies?

60953 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to matt, #690 of 1437 🔗

I think it does include banks but not places that do ‘financial services’ – not sure what banks do then!!

PART 1
Relevant places where face coverings must be worn
1.—(1) A shop, but does not include—
(a)
restaurants with table service, including restaurants and dining rooms in hotels ormembers’ clubs,
(b)
bars, including bars in hotels or members’ clubs,
(c)
public houses.
(2) For the purposes of (1), an area within or adjacent to a shop where seating or tables are madeavailable by that business for the consumption of food and drink on the premises by customers ofthat business is not a relevant place for the purposes of these Regulations.
2.Enclosed shopping centres, excluding any area in that building which is open to the public andwhere seating or tables are made available for the consumption of food and drink.
3.Banks, building societies, credit unions, short-term loan providers, savings clubs andundertakings which by way of business operate a currency exchange office, transmit money (or anyrepresentation of money) by any means or cash cheques which are made payable to customers.
4.Post Offices.

61000 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Edna, 3, #691 of 1437 🔗

The list should include all the shops who’s owners don’t give a flying monkey flip if you are wearing a mask or not and just about everywhere else too.

60968 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Humanity First, 2, #692 of 1437 🔗

My vet has been suited, booted & PPE’d since day one, are they now saying that is not ncessesary? Or just that I as a client do not have to be muzzled?

Seems pointless when your animal is being examined in a car park, six feet away from you.

61008 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #693 of 1437 🔗

Getting covids from a pet, insane….

61195 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Two-Six, #694 of 1437 🔗

Well if you have a pet bat…

I sincerely hope nobody does any research on whether it can be spread by cats, dogs, horses etc. We all know what Fergie’s like when he gets the smell of blood.

61642 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, #695 of 1437 🔗

Early on the lion at Wuhan zoo was reported to have caught Covid from its keepers. For a while our press were urging cat owners to keep their moggies indoors.

61045 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Humanity First, 2, #696 of 1437 🔗

Despite item 11, the Royal Academy of Arts in London says visitors have to wear face coverings. (At present the Tate doesn’t). I’ve told the RA I won’t be back while that’s in force, and asked for the relevant proportion of my Friends subscription to be repaid; they have declined as apparently it’s categorised as a charitable donation.

61248 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Edward, 2, #697 of 1437 🔗

Don’t renew. Be uncharitable. The effin’ buggers, do they expect you to give the virus to the pictures, or something?

61700 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Edward, #698 of 1437 🔗

Had the same story with the National Gallery, have told them to cancel the direct debit from next year but we’re stuck with the membership for this year as they don’t do refunds. Mr Bart and I have told the National Gallery that we won’t be visiting while they have their insane antisocial distancing measures and “encouraging” visitors to wear muzzles.

61181 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Humanity First, 1, #699 of 1437 🔗

Bingo halls!! Haha! It’s the only place they need them!

61489 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Humanity First, #700 of 1437 🔗

Public libraries are shut down here.
A real hardship for many.
Not just because no browsing and no hanging out in the reading room etc., but also other services now unavailable.
Since the local “business” store is also limited to curbside ordering. So if you need a photocopy and don’t own a photocopier, there is no way to get one.
Many people do not own a computer and must use the library’s computer to get online. So that, too, is canceled.

61334 ▶▶ TJN, replying to mhcp, 1, #701 of 1437 🔗

‘At the head of the Statutory Instrument it says:
 ‘Laid before Parliament at 1.15 p.m. on 23rd July 2020’

So that’s been thoroughly debated then. What a shower.

60913 Back To Normal, replying to Back To Normal, 5, #702 of 1437 🔗

Petition to Allow pubs and restaurants to operate without COVID-19 restrictions now approved and available to sign and share: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/325069

By the way, I submitted this about 6 weeks ago before pubs were re-opened so the wording was a bit of guesswork at the time.

60962 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #703 of 1437 🔗

Signed 👍🏻

60921 DeepBlueYonder, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 7, #704 of 1437 🔗

Up to 10 July 2020, there were 50,946 Covid-19 deaths in England and Wales, according to the ONS (see: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales )

33,045 of those occurred in hospital or in a hospice. So 17,901 were outside those settings. Perhaps I am missing something, but I am struggling to see how there could be any Covid-19 deaths outside those settings.

Given the way the disease develops, wouldn’t people be taken to hospital if their condition deteriorated and they needed intensive care, including residents of care homes?

60951 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 6, #705 of 1437 🔗

50,946 Covid-19 deaths”

Pure hokum. Because of the lack of scientific rigour – not to mention clear incompetence and even fraud – we don’t know the role of Covid in causing death.

For anyone genuinely ‘following the science'(or lack of) , this would be a pre-eminent fact.

60952 ▶▶ Biker, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 12, #706 of 1437 🔗

it’s almost like it’s been exaggerated. There’s no way nearly 18,000 people have died in their homes of this virus. I call total bullshit on the whole thing.

60954 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Biker, 4, #707 of 1437 🔗

Exactly. It’s a preposterous claim.

61116 ▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Tenchy, #708 of 1437 🔗

Worth bearing in mind that Sars-Cov2 infection does not necessarily have to be be verified to appear in these numbers, suspected infection is considered good enough.

Up to the end of June, 4,251 cases were “suspected” not confirmed, if I’ve read correctly.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19englandandwales/deathsoccurringinjune2020

61644 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, #709 of 1437 🔗

Part of the ‘if Bozza got run over by a bus he’d count as covid dead’ PHE shenanigans ?

61096 ▶▶ DomW, replying to DeepBlueYonder, #710 of 1437 🔗

Lstest full ONS report shows a total of 15,122 in care homes up to 10th July. Other locations reported as making up the rest are Home, Other Communal Establishment and Elsewhere.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=%2fpeoplepopulationandcommunity%2fbirthsdeathsandmarriages%2fdeaths%2fdatasets%2fweeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales%2f2020/publishedweek282020.xlsx

61173 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to DeepBlueYonder, #711 of 1437 🔗

Possibly because death from all other causes, by some kind of statistical magic, has fallen below average.

60924 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 11, #712 of 1437 🔗

From The Telegraph live feed:

Coronavirus spread may not be slowed down by warm weather

Warm weather may not slow the spread of coronavirus, a scientific review by Oxford University has found – and it warns that sunshine is no excuse to take risks.

Researchers pointed out that the virus has spread in very warm areas such as Ecuador, Brazil and India, as well as in warm US states such as Florida, California and Texas.

Health officials have repeatedly raised hopes that improvements in the weather may reduce transmission of the virus, but the new analysis says it is impossible to know whether this is the case.

Full article (paywall) here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/23/coronavirus-spread-may-notbe-slowed-warm-weather-scientists/

Oh good! No “second wave” in winter, then.

60991 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 4, #713 of 1437 🔗

They are going to say they have new evidence that windy weather helps spread the rona and mandate a maximum wind speed limit for outdoor activities soon then make a purchase for 75 million little Chinese anemometers.

61002 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 8, #714 of 1437 🔗

They just can’t make up their minds. Cases have dropped because of lockdown – no, scrap that, they’ve only dropped because it’s summer, it’ll be back in winter for a second wave – but it’s not seasonal, so we can’t be complacent just because it’s summertime and we need to keep up with all the restrictions, etc etc etc.

61019 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #715 of 1437 🔗

Don’t forget: it’s not like flu, except when it is.

61055 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #716 of 1437 🔗

And it can also adapt itself to attack the weakest point of any human it infects. Riiiiight…..

61246 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #717 of 1437 🔗

Like, the brain?

61430 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #718 of 1437 🔗

Only those who specialise in “The Science.”

61052 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Tenchy, 3, #719 of 1437 🔗

So Oxford University are current frontrunners to produce vaccine and cooincidentally they have disproved that HCQ works and have now disproved the weather theory as well. They have obviously nothing to gain from any of this.

61145 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to dpj, #720 of 1437 🔗

Except our hero Gupta is also at Oxford. And that paper yesterday saying how much the lockdown sucked came out of Imperial.

61123 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Tenchy, 11, #721 of 1437 🔗

“and it warns that sunshine is no excuse to take risks.”

Risks such as, er, living life? Am fed up of these cunts.

61197 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Mark II, 3, #722 of 1437 🔗

that’s right mark, i’m fed up of these cunts also

61159 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Tenchy, #723 of 1437 🔗

Is there a link to the study? Where has the virus spread in these areas? Could it mostly in hospitals, care homes and crowded living quarters? Suggesting that sunlight has no effect,goes against all the other studies so far.

61442 ▶▶ DomW, replying to Tenchy, #724 of 1437 🔗

Airborne viruses propagate poorly under such condititions. Viruses found in the intestinal tract which propagate via faecal-oral transmission are not affected by climate in this way.

61497 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Tenchy, #725 of 1437 🔗

as well as in warm US states such as Florida, California and Texas.”

I don’t know about Brazil etc., but it has been pointed out that Florida, Texas, etc. are totally air=conditioned in the summer, so air is recirculated in the home or other space.

60946 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 6, #726 of 1437 🔗

Someone put this link up yesterday, but it worth posting it again:

https://arxiv.org/abs/2007.07154

If the findings prove to be correct, it suggests so-called “herd immunity” is already present in many parts of the world, that the virus will indeed die out, and I think it implies there will be no “second wave”.

The full paper (pdf) is worth a read if you’re technically competent in these matters, but it has yet to be peer-reviewed.

60980 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tenchy, 2, #727 of 1437 🔗

I had a discussion on here a few weeks ago with Guy, who posted some very interesting analysis of waste water from Barcelona area last year from a Spanish study. March 2019 showed signs of SARS 2. I coined the term SARS 1.5, and wondered whether there had been spread from China – possibly Beijing or another city – to Barcelona, which hosts a very large multinational conference for a week every year in February. Unfortunately the Spanish water study did not have data for February 2019. The paper you attach would fit with that narrative, and of course, explain why there have been some cases in Korea when people have apparently had the virus twice (although I don’t think a first false positive test can be excluded).

61135 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #728 of 1437 🔗

Yes, except the study was first posted by someone else, probably swedenborg, or another excellent contributor like him.

It would also fit with how the March 2019 sample only matched one of the genetic sequences out of the three or four they were looking for. It might have been this related lower virulence strain.

Another thing that would be interesting to look at is the ratio of asymptomatic cases to total positives in different places. There were one or two weird hotspots in Bergamo that had very high seroprevalence (50% or so) and a low rate of asymptomatic cases (I think it was about 10%). These could be places that didn’t get SARS1.5.

As they suggest in the paper Tenchy linked people should have a very close look at blood and T-cells to try to track this thing down and see if they can prove its existence.

61429 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #729 of 1437 🔗

COVID-19 has been circulating for at least a year and yet there was no notable increase in unseasonable mortality anywhere until Lockdown regimes were imposed between late February and late March 2020.

…. This evidence runs contrary to all that we have we have been told about COVID-19. Crossan was right to observe that Spanish, Brazilian and Italian results did not correspond to any known outbreak of the associated COVID-19 syndrome. This is no reason to discard this evidence, but it does provide grounds to question the prevailing COVID-19 narrative.

https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/lockdown-deaths-not-covid-deaths

60948 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 9, #730 of 1437 🔗

Ironically, Organization for Safety, Asepsis and Prevention says:-

Change masks between patients or when they become damp from external contamination or from condensation of moist, exhaled air (about every 20 minutes).

FAQ – Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) – 2013

In fact, when masks for SARS was being considered, this is exactly what was wrong with the masks — https://www.smh.com.au/national/farce-mask-its-safe-for-only-20-minutes-20030427-gdgnyo.html

Am I too much of a sociopath if I were to look forward to a spike in bacterial or fungal infections, or in aspirational pneumonia? (rhetorical question, of course!)

61010 ▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to IMoz, 5, #731 of 1437 🔗

If you are, so am I.

60957 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 9, #732 of 1437 🔗

I feel so passionately about this that I’ve gone + setup a Twitter account, simply for Covid/lockdown/masks/sceptic stuff. Feel free to give me a follow

Take a look at K e l s e y #KBF 🌿 🔮 (@kbeanie93): https://twitter.com/kbeanie93?s=09

60986 ▶▶ smileymiley, replying to kbeanie, 2, #733 of 1437 🔗

Done! 👍 👍

61030 ▶▶ Bella, replying to kbeanie, 2, #734 of 1437 🔗

Following

61420 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kbeanie, 1, #735 of 1437 🔗

Have followed you as well!!!

61446 ▶▶ DomW, replying to kbeanie, 1, #736 of 1437 🔗

Following also!

60971 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 3, #737 of 1437 🔗

What’s going to happen if you wear a mask in a shop and you keep rubbing it?

You’re wearing a mask so what can they do? There is nothing in the “legislation” about proper use of a face covering.

60977 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to mhcp, 5, #738 of 1437 🔗

Well, actually, the SI says

2.—(1)…

“face covering” means a covering of any type which covers a person’s nose and mouth;

so I don’t see why one can’t wear a balaclava…

60981 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to IMoz, 2, #739 of 1437 🔗

Yes but not how you use it. If you rub it every minute intentionally you are still covering your face but may well be seeding the outside with contamination that I guess if you then blow on your mask will sail off into the shop!

60989 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to mhcp, 1, #740 of 1437 🔗

Personally, I wouldn’t advise you to rub the mask for your own sake—why would you want to get whatever bacteria or airborne fungal spores settled on it into you—there’s a reason why there’s a specific and prescribed way to take the mask off, another key “feature” lost in the ineptitude to be seen to do something..

61001 ▶▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to IMoz, #741 of 1437 🔗

I wouldn’t plan to be in the shop that long!

61028 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to mhcp, 1, #742 of 1437 🔗

Yeah, except you’d probably have to go to Timbuctoo these days to get contaminated before you could spread it.

61423 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #743 of 1437 🔗

It isn’t the virus that’s the problem in this case. It’s the mask’s ability to incubate some nasty bacteria, yeasts and fungi.

Wait till all those “sympathetic” shop assistants are off sick with tonsillitis and oral thrush.

61243 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to IMoz, 1, #744 of 1437 🔗

My dog’s muzzle looks great on me.

61626 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to annie, #745 of 1437 🔗

people and their kinks 😉

60983 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to mhcp, 1, #746 of 1437 🔗

A genei appears and offers you three wishes. Use them wisely!

60976 Ed Phillips, replying to Ed Phillips, 7, #748 of 1437 🔗

With apologies to the original framers of this verdict (although seeing as they wrote it 350 years ago I don’t think they’re around to care):

“Whereas the Commentators of Lockdownsceptics.org assembled here, are constituted as an High Court of Justice for the trying and judging of the said Matt Hancock for crimes and treasons …..a charge of high treason and other high crimes was, in behalf of the people of England, exhibited against him, wherein he was charged, that he, the said Matt Hancock, being admitted Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, and therein trusted within a limited power to govern by, and according to the law of the land and otherwise; and by his trust, oath and office, being obliged to use the power committed to him for the good and benefit of the people, and for the preservation of their rights and liberties; yet, nevertheless, out of a wicked design to erect and uphold in himself an unlimited and tyrannical power to rule according to his will, and to overthrow the rights and liberties of the people, and to take away and make void the foundations thereof, and of all redress and remedy of misgovernment, which by the fundamental constitutions of this Kingdom were reserved on the people’s behalf in the right and power of frequent and successive Parliaments; he, the said Matt Hancock hath traitorously and maliciously levied war against the people of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…This Court is fully satisfied in their judgements and consciences, that he has been guilty of the wicked design and endeavours in the said charge set forth…and that he hath been and is the occasioner, author, and continuer of the said unnatural, cruel, and dangerous Coronavirus Restrictions, and therein guilty of high treason, and of the desolations, damage, and mischief to this nation acted and committed in the said Restrictions, and occasioned thereby. For all which treasons and crimes this Court doth adjudge that he, the said Matt Hancock, as a tyrant, traitor, and public enemy to the good people of this nation, shall be pronounced guilty.”

61005 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Ed Phillips, 1, #749 of 1437 🔗

Is the punishment for treason still hung drawn and quartered? If yes, can I bagsy some of his intestines’ as I make cracking sausages

61006 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, #750 of 1437 🔗

FFS only joking

61240 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cecil B, 1, #751 of 1437 🔗

Handjob sausages? Ugh. Would be ashamed to feed pigs with them.

60994 DeepBlueYonder, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 4, #752 of 1437 🔗

I have been looking at the guidance for doctors completing Medical Certificates of Cause of Death – see page 6 of the document below.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877302/guidance-for-doctors-completing-medical-certificates-of-cause-of-death-covid-19.pdf

If Covid-19 actually ‘ caused a death’, it would be entered against the lowest completed line of part I only . I wonder if the ONS statistics report any mention of Covid-19, whether it be part Ia, Ib, Ic, or part II.

I have made a request to the ONS as follows:

“Is it possible to analyse the deaths involving coronavirus according to the ‘Cause of Death’ categories on the Medical Certificate of Death?

Could the overall figure of deaths mentioning Covid-19 be broken down into: Ia, Ib, Ic (if a cause of death), or II (if mentioned as ‘contributing to death’).”

61012 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to DeepBlueYonder, 2, #753 of 1437 🔗

It’s actually worse than that, ONS expressly state that they conflate U07.1 (lab confirmed COVID-19) and U07.2 (clinical or, worse, epidemiological diagnosis (aka: hunch, because COVID-19 symptoms and signs are exceptionally unique, right?))

61103 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to IMoz, 4, #754 of 1437 🔗

And my understanding is that the sensible checks and balances brought in, post Shipman, in the death certification process have been waived in these “unprecedented” times. So doctors with an axe to grind can certify covid knowing every such death f’cks the Tories and no one is going to hold them to account.

61514 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Will, #756 of 1437 🔗

Exactly the same occurred in the USA regarding the Blue Form (death certificate). they changed the very clear rules on proximate and contributory factors in the “cause of death” section of the form. Quite a few doctors raised a ruckus about his, but only a reporter from Fox news interviewed one fellow. Since it was Fox News, this piece of info was “ad-hommed”–i.e., if it’s on Fox New that means you are a Trump supporter!! I kid you not!

60995 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #757 of 1437 🔗

This is the response to my email to my MP regarding masks and precisely why I never voted for her!

Thank you for raising your concerns with me about the wearing of face coverings in shops. I appreciate that the recent decision has divided opinion with strongly held views on both sides. As with prior Covid19 legislation, the Government has been guided by the science.

Scientific understanding of the virus is constantly developing and last month the WHO changed its advice regarding face coverings. Previously it had been suggested that there was not enough evidence to indicate whether individuals would benefit from their use.

However, the balance of scientific opinion now suggests the use of face coverings is important in controlling the spread of the virus, particularly in the case of asymptomatic transfer. The wearing of a face covering is useful in stopping droplets escaping from the wearer and thereby helping to minimise transmission. It also has been concluded that people touch their nose and mouth less when wearing a face covering. This obviously helps mitigate spread. This will protect not only the wearer but also the more vulnerable members of our families and community.

I have been so impressed with the community response to the current pandemic and hope that people may feel more confident about venturing into shops and travelling on public transport as we take another step towards ‘normal’ life.

I appreciate the concerns that have been highlighted that individuals can visit pubs and restaurants without the use of face coverings. However these establishments are obliged to undertake full risk assessments and have changed the way they operate in order to protect customers and staff.

In the main our retailers, hospitality sector and others have risen to the challenge presented by the recent lockdown and I am confident that if individuals choose not to shop in supermarkets or local shops the internet is available. These measures are to help protect everyone. It is also important to note that face coverings are only required while inside shops; the experience of window shopping or strolling around shopping areas will currently remain unaffected.

61009 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Bella Donna, 12, #758 of 1437 🔗

What a complete pack of lies. I felt physically sick reading it. By my estimation it contains at least 13 false statements, which is remarkable considering what you have pasted above is just 333 words.

61018 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #759 of 1437 🔗

Looks like your fellow constituents voted for a c**t

61024 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #760 of 1437 🔗

I never got a reply from my MP so I can’t even tell her to fuck off. I suggest you do though.

61038 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Bella Donna, 17, #761 of 1437 🔗

your problem is thinking that your local MP is anything other than a dumb fuck prepared to lie for money

61056 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Biker, 5, #762 of 1437 🔗

I just wrote to my well paid dumb-fuck MP. It was a TOP letter. Not that it will make any difference, at least I got to stick the knife in and twist it a bit.

61072 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #763 of 1437 🔗

As with prior Covid19 legislation, the Government has been guided by the science.”

Only one response to that :

” Have they? – Bollocks!”

61419 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #764 of 1437 🔗

the experience of window shopping or strolling around shopping areas will currently remain unaffected.

She obviously wrote that before the rule to wear masks in malls and arcades was brought in today.

Shopping experience killed stone dead. Done!

61422 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #765 of 1437 🔗

Sorry that’s a steaming pile of bullshit. Where do these MPs, businesses and institutions get their template from? They all end up sounding the same.

60999 alw, replying to alw, 29, #766 of 1437 🔗

The government has published its guidance on care home visits. Hugs, kisses, hats and flowers are all banned, but visitors can bring boxes of chocolates as the packaging can be sanitised

An elderly friend terminally ill in a hospice has birthday on Sunday. She should be having hugs, kisses and lots of unsanitised chocolates or whatever she fancies. Kick this nonsense into touch.

61035 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to alw, 6, #767 of 1437 🔗

They have no legal authority to stop you entering and visiting: and taking any articles you would normally take.

It is their home, not a prison

61049 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 6, #768 of 1437 🔗

Look at the word…..” Guidance” It’s not in any way enforceable

61061 ▶▶▶▶ alw, replying to Cecil B, 4, #769 of 1437 🔗

Absolutely. Have not worn a mask nor will I.

61021 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 5, #770 of 1437 🔗

Let the demonization begin…

“People with psychopathic or narcissistic traits are less likely to follow face mask rules or obey lockdowns because they don’t think they work, study finds…”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8552163/People-psychopathic-narcissistic-traits-likely-follow-face-mask-rules.html

61029 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Humanity First, 9, #771 of 1437 🔗

That could help us! Would you want to pick a fight with someone you believed was perhaps psychotic?? lol

61044 ▶▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #772 of 1437 🔗

Yes because it’s a lot more fun

61156 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #773 of 1437 🔗

That was exactly what I was planning to put on my ‘note’ from Dr Schnabel von Rom excusing me from masks ‘Does not play well with others.’

61036 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Humanity First, 2, #774 of 1437 🔗

Every time a new edition of DSM comes out, I check, and I’m one criteria away from being classed as a bona fide sociopath… Damn it! 😉

61064 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Humanity First, 3, #775 of 1437 🔗

Psychopath it is then. I can do that.

Wife was telling me about her day out yesterday starting the regular Wednesday linch and gossip with friends and family (which as all girlie I don’t go to) and she is getting as militant as me.

61114 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Humanity First, 1, #776 of 1437 🔗

People with Sciophobia more likely to obey lockdowns and follow face mask rules, study finds.

61238 ▶▶ annie, replying to Humanity First, 2, #777 of 1437 🔗

Ok, I am a psychopath with narcissistic traits ( owing to my incredible personal beauty), and proud of it.
And I’ve just bought a redundant aircraft hangar to store my loo paper collection.I have some wonderful specimens, will be putting them on Antiques Roadshow after Hangcock is beheaded.

61269 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Humanity First, 1, #778 of 1437 🔗

I’d no idea that I was a member of the Dark Triad. It sounds a lot more exciting than my usual routine!

61027 Cecil B, 13, #779 of 1437 🔗

Of course we are all being played. The real story is how handjob and the Dictator ignored the advice and discharged infected patients from hospitals into care homes causing tens of thousands of deaths

61032 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #780 of 1437 🔗

There has clearly been an increase in mask wearing before it becomes mandatory. Why is this?

Is it driven by fear?- Do people think if the government is making it mandatory then it can’t be safe not to wear one.

Or do people want to be seen as doing their bit? Taking part in the fight?

Or have they decided just to get use to it if it going to become law?
.

61111 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #781 of 1437 🔗

Probably they’ve just bought masks in anticipation of the new rule and so think they might as well wear them.

61041 Alan Billingsley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 5, #782 of 1437 🔗

We need a demonstration rally against wearing masks not just petitions. Have we any organisers?

61046 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 2, #783 of 1437 🔗

Piers Corbyn’s lot are staging a demonstration in London on 1st August. I’ve had to miss all the previous protests due to work but I have the day off and will be there to support them. They’re quite full-on with the 5G and anti-vac stuff which I’m not always sure is good for the cause’s public image, but the important thing is that they’re morally in the right. See http://www.standupx.info

61068 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Ben Shirley, 3, #784 of 1437 🔗

I agree with you about the need for focus. The questioning of a vaccine ‘fix’ is essential – but in this strictly defined context. The 5G stuff is just a diversion and distraction from the essential issues.

61414 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ben Shirley, #785 of 1437 🔗

Also Sheffield every Saturday 12pm Town Hall Peace Gardens.
And Bedford every Saturday 3pm Russell Park.

61047 Alan Billingsley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 7, #786 of 1437 🔗

I’ve seen plenty of people today wearing masks in the supermarket, obviously now in fear that if they take it off they will die

61228 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Alan Billingsley, 1, #787 of 1437 🔗

Yes – has to be a major miracle that they have made it to this point!

61050 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #788 of 1437 🔗

This made me laugh, in the Spectator:

http://i3.cmail20.com/ei/j/52/638/C27/csimport/human-guineapigs.123714.jpeg
‘Well, we’ve tested the vaccine on animals, now for the human guinea pigs.

61051 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #789 of 1437 🔗

The Spectator has proved to be pathetic during all of this and is just a mouthpiece for the Dictator

I’ve cancelled my subscription

61065 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cecil B, 7, #790 of 1437 🔗

Not entirely. I’m not a Spectator reader in general, but it has published a series of articles by John Lee about this shambles which are very incisive and damning from his perspective .as an ex-Professor of Pathology. They are essential background reading.

61077 ▶▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to RickH, 7, #791 of 1437 🔗

Not to mention regular articles by Toby Young and Carl Heneghan and the editor Fraser Nelson is a sceptic.

61410 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #792 of 1437 🔗

If the articles are essential, they should make them freely available and not lock them behind a paywall!

61112 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cecil B, 4, #793 of 1437 🔗

I’m considering cancelling mine too it’s become quite snowflakey of late.

61409 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, #794 of 1437 🔗

I haven’t been impressed by what I’ve managed to glimpse around the paywall.

61053 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 15, #795 of 1437 🔗

Love this headline in the DM trying to smear people that refuses to wear masks:

‘People with psychopathic or narcissistic traits are less likely to follow face mask rules or obey lockdowns because they don’t think they work, study finds – any they’re MORE likely to hoard toilet paper’

Ha ha, always aspired to be a psychopath….

61059 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 6, #796 of 1437 🔗

Well – it’s the Daily Vile. What do you expect?

61108 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Victoria, 2, #797 of 1437 🔗

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂 I wouldn’t line my parrot cage with it!

61130 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Victoria, 1, #798 of 1437 🔗

The Daily Fail

61225 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Victoria, 2, #799 of 1437 🔗

Hmm, psychopathic or narcissistic traits; now who does that put me in mind of? Oh yes, Dominic Cummings, closely followed by all the Cabinet and virtually all MPs!

61516 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Victoria, #800 of 1437 🔗

It’s a fine line between genius and insanity isn’t it?

61058 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 34, #801 of 1437 🔗

Today I made my last solitary trip, on foot, to my local corner shop (A Sainsburys Local, incidentally). With a heavy heart I note it will probably be my last for a few months.

Weirdly I think I would be safe going in there unmuzzled. The people who work there are sound, it’s a tiny store, where people largely ignore the stupid floor markings (mostly because there’s no space to adhere to them!). Everyone round here is still unmuzzled. (Although today disturbingly I saw what looked like a 13 year old boy wearing one, walking on his own outside).

Anyway. It was a sad feeling. A sad day. I think only hammering the retail economy into a bloody pulp via boycott will do anything to force the gvt. to rethink this latest, most ridiculous, arse-cover.

P.S. Cressida Dick is vile.

61084 ▶▶ Dave Tee, replying to Farinances, 16, #802 of 1437 🔗

I’ve just completed my final shop before Mask Day. I haven’t got the brass neck or the inclination to go into stores and claim a bogus exemption, or ask to see the manager, or any stuff like that. But I’ve carefully prepped for a scenario like this and I can tell you that the supermarkets won’t be getting any of my money, in person or online, while this nonsense persists. Trips to the local deli and to open-air markets will supplement my survival-bunker food stash. If I were to shop online then I would render myself indistinguishable from the Worried Well who have allowed the authorities to persuade them to stay home, distance themselves from their fellow human beings, and wait for their food to be brought on a plate to their cell by their gaoler.

61326 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dave Tee, 3, #803 of 1437 🔗

Me neither – I shall just avoid, avoid, avoid. Avoid like the – lol – plague, though it’s not the plague I’m avoiding! if I am absolutely, irrevocably *compelled to go into a shop i shall do so balls naked. Balls face naked 😉 and if confronted don my criminesque balaclava. Also doing the mumble mumble I can’t hear you trick, which 9/10 makes the other person take their mask off, and vice versa. Vice versa is even more effective I’ll wager (especially at the doctor’s etc.)

61099 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Farinances, 16, #804 of 1437 🔗

I had a similar conversation with the manager of a local jewelry shop this morning. A fellow sceptic, as I soon discovered. They won’t be stopping the unmasked coming in – they need the business. She was also a first-time Tory voter last year – never again, and she will not be the only one in my city.

61328 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #805 of 1437 🔗

I think 90% of small businesses will be doing the same. And this is where people’s money will go. (Well them and Bezos :/ )
Silver linings I guess. This is their golden opportunity.

61241 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Farinances, 9, #806 of 1437 🔗

Hi Farinances, yes, I’ve done the same, a merry jaunt around Lidl, collecting mostly beer, wine and cheap spirits (which is silly as I can order them easily online, but this trip felt apocalyptic … almost “end-of-times”. I managed to spend £320 in Tescos on Tuesday – a new PB for single-shop!

So, the store cupboards are full, the fridge is full, the chest freezer (ahem, bought 15 years ago!) is full. So that’s me done until November (my guess based on Boris’ ramblings a few days ago).

I am slightly worried about the day-to-day stuff; my family are Lactose vampires, so milk will be an issue. As will the impromptu shops for doggy treats, ad-hoc BBQs, snacks for guests, tinnies on the way to the park, etc …

My cunning plan is to send my 11 year old (trained to say: “I’m 10” if any zombie asks) into the shop when required. How sad, a 52 year old male, reduced to hanging around the Co-op handing little boys £10 quid notes and whispering: “Pssst, can you get me some bread and milk?”. There’s a not-so-funny comedy sketch in there somewhere.

And I will support my local brewery – until our Insect Overlords decree that simply being outside requires a hazmat suit and contagion tunnels.

Sigh, depressed, but am going to spend tomorrow at “work”, designing a new poster to pin up on telephone posts and such in the evenings on my doggy walks. That’s made me feel better. And cracking another beer.

Cheers All.
Dave

61330 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to HaylingDave, 4, #807 of 1437 🔗

🙁 Isn’t it depressing? Forced into acting like you did when you were a teenager, asking the older kids to go in and buy you beers. Except you’re asking your kid / deaf Dad (in my case) to do it for you instead 🙁

61405 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HaylingDave, #808 of 1437 🔗

Are you ok with coconut milk? This is very good reconstituted for cereal or whizzed into coffee or cocoa. Recommend using an aerolatte or blender!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B077MCQQKK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I usually use normal cows milk or butter but always take this when travelling.

61070 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 22, #809 of 1437 🔗

Just been to Sainsbury’s. One of my ex-patients (I used to be a GP) was at the tills. She tells me the staff have all been instructed to wear face masks from tomorrow but they have been told it is not their place to persuade non-muzzled customers to comply. I told her I wasn’t going to wear a mask and the reason. One of her colleagues joined in the discussion and seemed remarkably well informed on the mask issue and also said that there appears to be much slamming of stable doors by HM Gov after the gee-gee has departed. All very encouraging! Only about 10% of the customers today were masked. Be interesting to see how many will join the Resistance tomorrow.

61094 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DocRC, 18, #810 of 1437 🔗

Where I live, the numbers of masked is about the same. First venture into a non-food shop today (House of Fraser). Woman stood on the door directing traffic – not necessary because the place was empty. I asked if she would stop anyone going in tomorrow without a mask – Yes. What happens if a person has a medical condition – Don’t know, we haven’t been told. It was a singularly pointless shopping expedition as what I was looking for (cosmetics) no longer on display, no staff, and therefore no point. Something else to buy online. Well done Boris, keep on driving full speed towards that cliff!

61113 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #811 of 1437 🔗

I asked if she would stop anyone going in tomorrow without a mask – Yes. What happens if a person has a medical condition – Don’t know, we haven’t been told

Why can’t these people use some common fucking sense. She would probably put her head in the oven if you told her to.

61233 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 3, #812 of 1437 🔗

Any zombie would. And turn up the heat. And use hand gel as sauce.

61412 ▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to stefarm, 1, #813 of 1437 🔗

She probably hasn’t bothered to read the information. This is what the supermarket I work for has sent (relevant part only):

‘Specific groups of customers are exempt from this legislation. This also applies to colleagues. Any people who fall into the following groups do not have to wear a face covering:

· Physical or mental illness or impairment or disability
· Relevant health conditions
· Children under 11
· If putting on, wearing, or removing a face covering would cause you severe distress
· If you are shopping with or providing assistance to, someone who relies on lip reading to communicate’

61073 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #814 of 1437 🔗

I’d posted on fb that masks cause hypoxia and hypocapnia.

Someone posted this in response:
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2020/7/15/1_5025293.html?fbclid=IwAR1gW_GTLzkE5-OsF8586q83kLsn36iKr0RXA5yM8u1_neovxYZv36aBW2w

Any scientific bods among you care to comment?

61086 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #815 of 1437 🔗

I have not read this. too difficult and time consuming to argue with people putting more so-called scientific ‘facts’ forward – as with anything regarding health, it is easy to clobber stuff together and sell it as proven science.

61093 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #816 of 1437 🔗

Hardly a RCT!

… and I don’t see anything on hypercapnia. And no mention of discomfort from wearing masks – which, if you aren’t aware of, then you probably aren’t paying real attention.

Smells like a set-up job.

… beside s which, the main point is that infection levels are so low that it is patently stupid to be wearing a mask on the off-chance of coming across a virus.

61097 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #817 of 1437 🔗

That “doctor” is a dumbarse, to be perfectly frank: it’s as if he doesn’t know that the desaturation occurs over time (or perhaps he does which is exactly why the video is so short)—it’s the equivalent of saying you don’t die from exsanguination and limit your “study” to one minute of bleeding from a finger… When I did my first degree, Huff’s “How to lie with statistics” was a required pre-course reading, seems that tradition has been long dropped.

Not only do you get destauration but also you get a measurable compensatorty effect in heart rate (and likely BP): Preliminary report on surgical mask induced deoxygenation during major surgery

PS: Nor does he actually put the mask on properly—the metal “thing” over the nose is there for a reason, is that dude even a doctor???

61390 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, #818 of 1437 🔗

Thanks for your analysis. I’d suspected the trials were intentionally short.

61098 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #819 of 1437 🔗

I might suggest to them that if wearing 6 masks DOESN’T lower the amount of oxygen getting through to you, then by basic logical thought, then 1 most certainly isnt stopping any viruses getting through either.

If they’re fine enough to prevent virus getting in/out, then they should also be restricting your breathing.

And to be nasty, why dont you tell the person who posted that to put 6 masks on tightly and take quick and deep breaths for 10 minutes and see how they feel.

61394 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, #820 of 1437 🔗

Was trying to keep it civil!

61100 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #821 of 1437 🔗

I would be surprised if wearing a mask (or two, or six…) caused hypoxia. It will make it harder to breathe but you will just breathe harder to compensate the same way you do when walking up stairs, riding a bike, sitting on an aeroplane, etc. So unless you have some existing health issues it shouldn’t be a problem.

I don’t have a pulse oximeter (although I realise it is the must-have hypochondriac accessory these days) but I think it’s quite hard to lower your saturation as measured by those things even by holding your breath because the urge to breathe gets very strong before it drops. But it would be fun to try this experiment.

61268 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #822 of 1437 🔗

Just for kicks and as a follow up to my earlier reply:– I threw on a pulseoximeter and held my breath for 30 seconds, here are my findings:

initial SpO2: 98%, after inhaling and holding for 30s, SpO2: 98%;
breathing normally for five minutes, SpO2: 97% (normal variation), after exhaling and holding breath for 30s, SpO2: 97%

Guessing by his logic, not breathing doesn’t desaturate blood either…

61494 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #823 of 1437 🔗

Thanks for doing the experiment! I regret not thinking of trying this last time I was visiting a friend who has a pulse oximeter.

61076 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #824 of 1437 🔗

New lockdowns proposed by PHE for Blackburn and Luton, according to Sky breaking news

61080 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 13, #825 of 1437 🔗

Such nonsense. Infections do not mean that people will die. The PCR test is also so unreliable. Can only hope that the leaders of these areas will stand up to the Government and tell them NO.

61081 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Victoria, 11, #826 of 1437 🔗

Try and explain that to the muzzled morons, it’s an almost impossible task.

61101 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Victoria, 1, #827 of 1437 🔗

That’s why this cowardly government has put the onus on local councils to police government diktat. They think it gets them off the hook!

61205 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #828 of 1437 🔗

Most local councils, as ‘common purpose’ fiefdoms, are only too happy to help.

61106 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #829 of 1437 🔗

Is there any actual evidence that there is higher prevalence in Asian areas of these towns or is it that these communities will readily accept testing? Also, they can be easily blamed by tapping into people’s pre-existing prejudices if/when figures go up.

What does everyone think?

61143 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #830 of 1437 🔗

I think whatever anyone thinks about other things that have been going on recently regarding ‘Cultural Marxism’, this is a very unsubtle attempt to pit citizens against each other. It will create even more division and is storing up many more problems than the ones we are already facing. Whatever the rights and wrongs of mass gatherings (after Eid), or at funerals, this is very disconcerting – it looks targeted, and that will be how it will be understood on the ground. There are reasons why there are hotspots, but does it matter, ie. are there more deaths? If not, better to leave alone rather than stoke anger across the community, in my view.

61386 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #831 of 1437 🔗

Wise words!

61383 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #832 of 1437 🔗

From comments I’ve seen in newspapers and local council newsletters, many people seem to always assume it’s the Muslim communities that are the problem, though of course it isn’t necessarly the case. Does seem to bring out the racist bigots.

I have wondered if these communities are more likely to be frightened into volunteering for testing.

61110 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #833 of 1437 🔗

Is there a direct train service to Blackburn and Luton from Leicester? Does Coroni travel first class? how come the lockdowns are specifically targeted at poor areas? Why no threats to the likes of Harrogate, Windsor or Chelsea? I’m seriously surprised that the ‘virus’ doesn’t fancy going ‘up market’. Why does he attack the poor and the vulnerable and leave the well to do alone.
Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

61083 RyanM, 23, #835 of 1437 🔗

I don’t think I find the IPSOS study as encouraging as you do. A year ago, if you told me about universal masking, I’d have laughed in your face and said there’s not a chance in hell that this could happen in the US. But I am in a pretty extreme minority of people who refuse to wear a mask. Not only do people go along with it, they don’t even bother to question effectiveness, even though that information is readily available. It has become a very emotional issue for some people, and not the way that I would expect. People more and more demand that everyone else cater to their own personal comfort, rather than demanding that the government stop interfering with their lives.

In that study, which showed that people believe “other people” are making the pandemic worse, it seemed that these folks believe that the situation is made worse by people who refuse to “simply obey” and do what they are being told to do. The lack of intelligent critical thinking, especially from conservatives , is both astonishing and frightening.

61091 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 13, #836 of 1437 🔗

Read this elsewhere on the interweb written by someone far wiser than me and I thought it worth repeating here.

‘It’s impossible to eradicate a virus by government decree—and that’s if it exists at all!’

61102 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #837 of 1437 🔗

It’s a quote from Yoram Lass, featured on evidencenotfear.com:
“A government cannot stop a virus. What stops a virus is natural immunity. It’s impossible to stop a virus by government decree.”

61373 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, #838 of 1437 🔗

natural immunity!

61104 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #839 of 1437 🔗
61109 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #840 of 1437 🔗

I think I said before, as a very keen cyclist (7-12hrs proper riding a week, commute to/from work by bike) i’ve been against about 95% of any proposed cycling infrastructure for as long as I can remember. Even with years to plan it out, they fuck it up for everyone, when they’re doing a rush job like now it’s going to be even more of a waste of time.

61381 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark II, #841 of 1437 🔗

I agree that a suicide lane plus a lot of anger from friendly motorists trying to shame you into riding in it is the norm and not helpful. But to be fair some of the newer ones are much better.

61105 Victoria, 6, #842 of 1437 🔗

Road closures: Bira’s plea to PM to ‘give us back our high streets’
“Three quarters (75%) of you say trade is being detrimentally impacted by lockdown road closures, an exclusive Bira members’ survey has revealed.”

https://bira.co.uk/road-closure-plea/

61107 Alan Billingsley, 13, #843 of 1437 🔗

Sad eyes, doleful eyes, mystified eyes, blank eyes, tearful eyes,dull eyes, worried eyes. No smiles. Just masks.

61115 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #844 of 1437 🔗

Live from the Torygraph:

Face coverings must be worn in shops, supermarkets, indoor shopping centres and transport hubs – such as train stations and airports – in England from Friday, under new legislation laid today.

After several days’ confusion with ministers giving mixed messages, the new law makes it clear it is compulsory to wear a face covering when buying food and drink to takeaway from cafes and shops. If you are in a premises where you are able to sit down and consume food or drink that you have bought, then you can remove your face covering in order to eat and drink on site.

Face coverings will not be mandatory for anyone under the age of 11, those with disabilities or certain health conditions, such as respiratory or cognitive impairments that make it difficult for them to wear a face covering.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock said: “Everyone must play their part in fighting this virus by following this new guidance. I also want to thank the British public for all the sacrifices they are making to help keep this country safe.”

 As well as shops and supermarkets, face coverings must be worn in banks, building societies and post offices. However they are not mandatory in eat-in restaurants and pubs, hairdressers and other treatment salons gyms and leisure centres, cinemas, concert halls and theatres.

61120 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #845 of 1437 🔗

Fixed a couple of typos..

Health Secretary Matt Wancock said: “Everyone must play their part in fighting this bullshit by not following this new guidance. I also want to thank the British public for all the sacrifices they are making to help keep my job safe.”

61131 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #846 of 1437 🔗

Like it!

DavidC

61137 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to PoshPanic, 2, #847 of 1437 🔗

Everyone I speak to has spotted HMG’s game.

61169 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #848 of 1437 🔗

Thanks. My italics were direct quotes from the Torygraph. Your version is exactly what I would have written!

61118 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 13, #849 of 1437 🔗

Wearing a mask to prevent inhaling a virus is like erecting a barbed wire fence around your rose bed in the hope it will stop the aphids.

61119 ▶▶ Achilles heel, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #850 of 1437 🔗

I am not an advocate of mask wearing but it isnt about stopping catching it – it is stopping spreading it via droplet expulsion…but that is why the guidance for shopkeepers – who arguably come into contact with many more people makes the whole thing totally ridiculous…why would they not have to but casual shopper it is mandatory…?

61128 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Achilles heel, 4, #851 of 1437 🔗

The bottom line – even given that there is *no* substantive evidence for the efficacy of what you suggest – is that the incidence of even the *presence* of the virus is so low (0.01%-0.04%) that wearing masks is now certainly a totally irrelevant nonsense. As well as observably damaging in other ways (I have worn them in health-related environments, so I know)

61132 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Achilles heel, 4, #852 of 1437 🔗

Even in a purely hypothetical situation that the virus is not circulating, a test specificity of 99.9 per cent would be associated with an expected number of positive tests that is approximately equal to what we observed over the entire study period.

ONS Infection Survey 26 April to 28 June 2020

In other words the chance of anyone being infected and infecting someone else is now even lower than the chance of an arrow striking someone’s heel.

61371 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Achilles heel, #853 of 1437 🔗

Not forcing the shop staff is sensible because masks are very unhealthy.
Forcing shoppers to wear them for a few minutes is less unhealthy but makes the scary point that the world is full of a deadly virus.

61378 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #854 of 1437 🔗

They won’t be wearing them for a few minutes when you have to wear them everywhere – and all the time

62459 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to Harry hopkins, #855 of 1437 🔗

What a wonderful analogy!

61124 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #856 of 1437 🔗

Eat out anyone?

comment image ?imwidth=1160
Covid ‘igloos’ in use at 16th Century coaching inn The Sondes Arms in Rockingham, Corby, Northamptonshire Credit: John Robertson

One to avoid!!

61127 ▶▶ Alan Billingsley, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #857 of 1437 🔗

Definitely – what is the point!

61165 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Alan Billingsley, #858 of 1437 🔗

Poseurs?

61140 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #859 of 1437 🔗

That is what is called a ‘solardome’. It is simply a greenhouse and I considered buying one many years ago to grow my tomatoes. To think that I would see the day when folk were prepared to pay to eat in a greenhouse beggars belief.

61164 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, #860 of 1437 🔗

Indoors too. What a waste of floorspace!

61229 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #861 of 1437 🔗

Pity you didn’t buy one, you could charge the morons a bomb to sit in it eating your tomatoes.

61226 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, #862 of 1437 🔗

Ugh!

61428 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #863 of 1437 🔗

No thanks. And the waiter is muzzled too.

I’ll pass.

61126 Achilles heel, replying to Achilles heel, 14, #864 of 1437 🔗

We will see tomorrow but I intend never to wear a mask and constantly cite exemption point 3 to people. I might end up losing the battle of resistance through sheer weariness but the angst it has caused me emotionally from trying to explain why it IS an issue even though it is zero hassle…

if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress

It seems people have forgotten the challenges in court for face coverings for religious reasons…

The upshot is we have been biologically engineered to want to read people’s faces – it is why our brains are the way they are…this is inhuman.

61136 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Achilles heel, 7, #865 of 1437 🔗

Hoping the English will continue with their quiet belligerence towards this nonsense.

61207 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #866 of 1437 🔗

Not a lot of that about, sadly!

61146 ▶▶ matt, replying to Achilles heel, 11, #867 of 1437 🔗

I do agree with you, but this is also not why this is an issue, regardless of the amount of hassle it may or may not be and regardless of any possible negative effects masks may or may not have.

It’s an issue because the government have introduced a law that tells me what I can and can’t wear in certain situations. If they had done this based on solid, I would still object to it, but might be prepared to accept it. As it is, they have ostensibly introduced it to slow the spread of a virus which anyway is in retreat everywhere, based on evidence so thin you could watch television through it.

It is a farce, and disgraceful imposition on our freedoms and anyone who counters with “what’s the big deal, it’s just a mask and it’s only for a few minutes” has completely missed the point.

61161 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 4, #868 of 1437 🔗

Exactly. Because it’s a psy-op!

61180 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to matt, 2, #869 of 1437 🔗

But it’s not even a LAW, is it?

DavidC

61184 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, #870 of 1437 🔗

Edit above *solid evidence

61185 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 2, #871 of 1437 🔗

Couldn’t put it better myself, but have tried to get this exact point across to any poor sod stupid enough to bring the topic up with me.

61362 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark II, 1, #872 of 1437 🔗

You probably could have put it better yourself, because you wouldn’t have randomly missed out words that made sense of the sentence. But hey ho.

61267 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to matt, #873 of 1437 🔗

I thought they’d introduced mandatory masks to make people feel more confident about going shopping, which is not exactly science.

What the real reason is, is another matter. Masks are being mandated everywhere, supposedly to stop outbreaks of the virus, but there’s no such thing in this country. It just appears that many governments are in lockstep together in introducing masks.

Anyway. It could be worse, and we could be told to wear them at home as well…

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/07/22/broward-county-emergency-order-urges-residents-enforce-mask-orders-homes/
Broward County Emergency Order Urges Residents to Enforce Mask Orders in Their Homes

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/07/22/d-c-mayor-muriel-bowser-masks-mandatory-for-3-year-olds-outside-adults-violators-fined-1000/
D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser: Masks Mandatory for 3-Year-Olds Outside, Adult Violators Fined $1000

61364 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lms23, 1, #874 of 1437 🔗

3 year-olds? Lunacy!

61376 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lms23, 2, #875 of 1437 🔗

Officially they introduced them to control the spread. Unofficially officially they introduced the mandate to make people feel more confident about getting out and spending money. Either way it’s nonsense and either way it’s abhorrent.

The idea of imposing masks in the open air (when every man-Jack of them is on record as saying that spread barely happens in the open air) or in your own home is a horror. It turns it from farce to surrealist black comedy. I’m aware it’s happening elsewhere. I just hope to god that Cummings doesn’t decide that the reason people aren’t going to the shops _despite_ the mask wearing isn’t that they’re too scared to leave their front doors with all the unmasked people on the street.

61175 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Achilles heel, 4, #876 of 1437 🔗

Interesting you mention the religious reasons, the hypocrisy of those supporting face masks now having previous campaigned against forced covering has not gone unnoticed.

I think it is no coincidence that Sadiq Khan (who I voted for btw, anything was better than Boris or the next Tory twat… or so I thought) has a very pro face covering attitude, given his religious instinct. That is not to insinuate anything is wrong with his choice of religion (i couldn’t care less which one, all religions are fucking dumb to me) but it is surely having an impact on his lack of concern for telling people to cover up…

61224 ▶▶ annie, replying to Achilles heel, 14, #877 of 1437 🔗

The whole lockdown thing is inhuman. Antisocial distancing is inhuman. Terrorising the feeble-minded is inhuman.Cutting off old, frail, confused, even dying, people from their loved ones is inhuman. Perverting children’s education and social development is inhuman.

STAY HUMAN, folks. That is what we are here for. That’s why we matter.

62470 ▶▶▶ Gtec, replying to annie, #878 of 1437 🔗

For the elderly and frail it’s not just inhuman, it is inhumane; they deserve better from us.

61374 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Achilles heel, 2, #879 of 1437 🔗

Of course it’s inhuman, that’s the point. And the caveat about it causing you distress will be binned soon. Too many people will take advantage of it

61129 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 1, #880 of 1437 🔗

Does anyone here know the actual LAW by which police can fine non mask wearers £100?

DavidC

61152 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DavidC, 3, #881 of 1437 🔗

I found this from Caroline Stephens:

The Mask
KNOW THE LAW! Remember, according to social distancing, shop staff cannot “touch” you or come within 1 metre without breaking guidelines, (but of course they touch everything you’re buying) and if you refuse to wear a mask in their shop they cannot physically throw you out, but can only call the police to enforce a government ‘guideline’. The big problem for the police is that that would be breaking the Law if they tried to enforce a ‘guideline’, because police can only legally enforce Criminal Law.

If the police detain you, or arrest you because, naturally, you have refused to cooperate, they are then guilty of unlawful detention, which comes under the criminal code of ‘kidnapping’. If they try to fine you, without first ‘kidnapping’ you, you are not obliged to give them any information, not even your name, and without your name they cannot issue a fine.

If they find out your name, by whatever means and then issue a fine, you can simply state that you refuse to accept or pay any fine and they will then be obliged to caution you, which would be totally illegal since you will not have committed any crime (guidelines being optional to follow) and again, they would not be enforcing any law.

Know the difference: Guidelines come under ‘civil law’ and crimes come under ‘criminal law’. The police are not allowed to enforce ‘civil law’ – only the local authority and the civil courts can attempt to do that. So, demand that the Court issue you with a date for an appearance, and when/if you go to court your defence will be illegal detention and kidnapping, and in the civil court you will be able to demand substantial compensation as a counter-claim from the police, plus insist that criminal charges are brought against the arresting and detaining officers.

Now, nobody says that it will get to that stage, indeed it would be very unlikely to, but can you imagine how the Courts will be clogged up for years, perhaps decades, trying to process those bloody awkward bastards who had the bald-faced cheek to know the Law and also know their civil rights.

PS: Ensure you use your phone and record the whole even, to be used as leverage and evidence. But just remember this one fact – the police cannot enforce civil Law and therefore have no rights in determining whether or not you have to wear a mask, just because the government says so. That process would be called a ‘dictatorship’ and we are not quite there yet, despite this government’s valiant attempts to make it so.

https://www.carolinestephens.net/post/the-mask

61176 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #882 of 1437 🔗

Appreciated Cheezilla and excellent! My original question still stands though – under what or which LAW are we even being threatened with this £100 fine?

DavidC

61215 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DavidC, 3, #883 of 1437 🔗

Pure fear tactics?
Do the courts want to get cluttered up with cases of people refusing to pay an unenforceable fine?

61370 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, 2, #884 of 1437 🔗

If this is a coup as I think it is then they will. They cannot have anyone opposing this

61256 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DavidC, 1, #885 of 1437 🔗

I suspect it’s merely a threat via an SI.

61355 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #886 of 1437 🔗

An SI is nonetheless a law.

61194 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #888 of 1437 🔗

I said this last time something from her was posted making this distinction between criminal law and civil law. I don’t think this is true and in fact I think it’s very misleading. If you plan to rely on this, please be very careful and make sure you are very sure of your ground through your own research. The mandatory wearing of masks is in law (albeit via a statutory instrument) and is not a guideline.

My suggestion would be that if a shop does not want to serve you because you’re not wearing a mask, why would you insist on the opportunity to give them your money anyway? Just leave. There are other shops and there is an internet.

61206 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to matt, 1, #889 of 1437 🔗

Same question though – which law?

61237 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to DavidC, 1, #890 of 1437 🔗

This what the law (Statutory Instrument) states:

2020 No. 791

PUBLIC HEALTH, ENGLAND

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of FaceCoverings in a Relevant Place) (England) Regulations 2020


Offence and penalties
6. —(1) A person who contravenes the requirement in regulation 3 commits an offence.
(2) A person who obstructs, without reasonable cause, any person carrying out a function underthese Regulations commits an offence.
(3) A person who, without reasonable excuse, contravenes a direction given under regulation 5(2)or regulation 5(5) commits an offence.
(4) An offence under this regulation is punishable on summary conviction by a fine.
(5) Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (15) applies in relation to an offenceunder this regulation as if the reasons in subsection (5) of that section included—
·      to maintain public health;
·      to maintain public order.

Fixed penalty notices
7. —(1) An authorised person may issue a fixed penalty notice to anyone that the authorisedperson reasonably believes—

has committed an offence under these Regulations, and
is aged 18 or over.

(2) A fixed penalty notice is a notice offering the person to whom it is issued the opportunity ofdischarging any liability to conviction for the offence by payment of a fixed penalty to the authorityspecified in the notice.
(3) The authority specified in the notice must be an officer designated by the Secretary of Statefor the purposes of this regulation (“the designated officer”).
(4) Where a person is issued with a notice under this regulation in respect of an offence—
·      no proceedings may be taken for the offence before the end of the period of 28 daysfollowing the date of the notice;
·      the person may not be convicted of the offence if the person pays the fixed penalty beforethe end of that period.

(5) A fixed penalty notice must—
·      give reasonably detailed particulars of the circumstances alleged to constitute the offence;
·      state the period during which (because of paragraph (4)(a)) proceedings will not be takenfor the offence;
·      specify the amount of the fixed penalty;
·      state the name and address of the designated officer to whom the fixed penalty may be paid;
·      specify permissible methods of payment.

(6) The amount specified under paragraph (5)(c) must, subject to paragraph (7), be £100.
(7) A fixed penalty notice must specify that if £50 is paid before the end of the period of 14 daysfollowing the date of the notice that is the amount of the fixed penalty.

(8) Whatever other method may be specified under paragraph (5)(e), payment of a fixed penaltymay be made by pre-paying and posting to the person whose name is stated under paragraph (5)(d),at the stated address, a letter containing the amount of the penalty (in cash or otherwise).

(9) Where a letter is sent as mentioned in paragraph (8), payment is regarded as having beenmade at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of the post.

(10) In any proceedings, a certificate—
·      that purports to be signed by or on behalf of the designated officer, and
·      states that the payment was, or was not, received by the date specified in the certificate,
·      is evidence of the facts stated.
·
(11) In this regulation, “authorised person” means—
·      a constable,
·      a police community support officer,
·      in relation to any transport hub from or to which a TfL public transport service is provided,a TfL officer, or
a person designated by the Secretary of State for the purposes of this regulation

61239 ▶▶▶▶ Badgerman, replying to matt, #891 of 1437 🔗

Hi – just read the SI (2020 No 791) available here https://statutoryinstruments.parliament.uk/timeline/bt58mhyP/SI-2020791/ .

Section 6 makes contravention an offence so not a question of civil law and the advice above ceases to be accurate tomorrow when the SI becomes operative.

The definition of a “relevant place” where face coverings are mandated is set out in Schedule 1. I would also urge you to look at the range of places that are not caught by the regulations set out in Schedule 2.

The exact wording at Section 3 says that “No person may, without reasonable excuse, enter or remain in a relevant place without wearing a face covering”

“face covering” is defined as “a covering of any type which cover’s a person’s nose and mouth”

Nowhere can I see a specific requirement to wear the face covering, as defined, over one’s nose and mouth…………..but that would be one for the magistrate’s. (FWIW I think it is a sloppy bit of drafting.)

I have no intention of masking up – if, as they are entitled to, a shop refuse me entry or asks me to leave then so be it. Their loss.

I popped in to my usual tobacconist earlier and asked the pleasant mask free young lady serving whether they would be enforcing her immediate reaction was “oh, yes…..it’s the law”. When I politely stated that regrettably I would be buying my tobacco elsewhere from tomorrow the 360 degree turnaround was instantaneous.

That said the fact that we are even having this farce thrust upon us and are having this discussion makes me sick to the stomach

61133 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 7, #892 of 1437 🔗

Just received this from De Kelk bar in Bruges- How long before someone thinks of doing that here?

Dear lippers, rockers, Believers,
The Security Council has just decided to tighten the measures in the catering industry.
As of today, you must be in possession of a mouth mask, during a café visit.
This is worn in the right way at all times while entering and during movements within the cafe (toilet visit,..). Once you have taken a seat at the table, within your bubble, it doesn’t have to stay up

if you have ever seen the Belgian minister for Health Maggie de Block, I wouldn’t take any lectures on healthy living from her!

61142 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #893 of 1437 🔗

She is rather on the ‘unhealthy’ side of things isn’t she?!

DavidC

61170 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DavidC, 1, #894 of 1437 🔗

The word you are looking for is ‘obese’ – her BMI is well above 30!

61167 ▶▶ Biker, replying to crimsonpirate, 9, #895 of 1437 🔗

Fat people wearing masks makes me laugh. I want to say to them, hey fatso you care so little about your health you’ve become obese and yet you’ve got a mask on supposedly to help with your health. it makes no sense

61174 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to crimsonpirate, 3, #896 of 1437 🔗

Just looked her up on google images – bloody hell !

61252 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 4, #897 of 1437 🔗
61322 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #898 of 1437 🔗

Minister for Health? Who ever claimed Belgians don’t have a sense of humour?

61182 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to crimsonpirate, #899 of 1437 🔗

They were the rules in a cafe near the bottom of a dry ski slope on the outskirts of Edinburgh. Amazingly compliance was 95%.

61276 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to crimsonpirate, #900 of 1437 🔗

Thought it killed fatties render her down for a vax

61134 Victoria, replying to Victoria, #901 of 1437 🔗

Same adjuvant in swine flu vaccine that caused narcolepsy also being used in coronavirus vaccine https://www.naturalnews.com/2020-07-22-same-adjuvant-in-swine-flu-vaccine-caused-narcolepsy-coronavirus-vaccine.html

Vaccines Transparency, NOT – Which data is hidden
https://www.anhinternational.org/news/covid-vaccines-like-apples-and-oranges

61212 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #902 of 1437 🔗

The info about the adjuvant is very worrying!

61253 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Victoria, 1, #903 of 1437 🔗

If, and in capitals, IF this is true, it should be headline news. I went through the whole swine flu thing, I had it along with my daughter, 7 at the time. it was genuinely not a great experience with young children. Speaking to others who’d had it at the time, I started to question the scare stories that were out of control in the media.

I presumed at the start of all this, that wouldn’t happen again, but here we are. I don’t subscribe to the plandemic theories, but the drug companies have been extorting the hysterical situation no doubt.

61291 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #904 of 1437 🔗

If you don’t subscribe to ‘those’ theories. which is fair enough, then why the masks?

61138 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #905 of 1437 🔗

A recent study conducted in South Korea found that if you have Covid-19 and cough on someone from eight inches away, wearing a cotton mask will reduce the amount of virus you transmit to that person by 36 times.

Eight inches? You’d surely have to be about to kiss them at that distance!!

61157 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #906 of 1437 🔗

First find some virus to cough at them with! 🙂

61160 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #907 of 1437 🔗

Haha quite… but also, 36 times versus what? An open mouthed cough into their face? What sort of twat does that anyway?

I highly doubt it reduces it by 36 times versus, oh, I don’t know, looking away and coughing into your elbow/hands, like a decent and normal human would at any other time anyway.

If you and me are 8 inches away from a heavenly snog and I feel a cough coming on, I’d turn my head and probably lean down and cough into arm toward the floor. Sure, our romantic moment is probably ruined but it’s what I’d do regardless.

61353 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark II, #908 of 1437 🔗

Turning away would be instinctive, therefore automatic.

61171 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #909 of 1437 🔗

8 inches makes this sound deeply dodgy. It’s almost like someone decided to find the maximum distance at which a cloth mask could conceivably make a measurable difference

61192 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 2, #910 of 1437 🔗

and still it’s probably versus an unrealistic scenario.

61214 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #911 of 1437 🔗

Mutter mutter … inverse square law … mutter mutter … made up bollocks.

61286 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Cheezilla, #912 of 1437 🔗

Whichever way you look at it that’s mask propaganda

61357 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, #913 of 1437 🔗

Oh it was from a Torygraph article about masks. Definitely propaganda – but hardly evidence in favour of them!

61144 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 23, #914 of 1437 🔗

I’m looking forward to going out food shopping tomorrow unmasked. I don’t think I’ll have any issues. It’s a ridiculous policy that is completely unenforceable by law. Even if the police were bothered, I don’t know how they actually ever fine people?

They are not entitled by law to ask to see anybody’s medical records, so If somebody said they were exempt, the police would be unsure if it was a genuine or not. If they tried to take it further and it was genuine, they’ll have broken the law by harassing and discriminating against someone with a disability. That is why they won’t bother getting involved. It’s not worth the hassle or potential consequences.

Or just go the easier route and say it causes severe distress. Fuck knows how they could ever prove that, unless they tie you up and make you wear a mask and see how you react.

The shops that do try and enforce it will stop after about a week, when they realise their customers are going elsewhere.

Absolute fucking drivel, carry on as normal folks.

61149 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Hubes, 6, #915 of 1437 🔗

I agree

61150 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Hubes, 5, #916 of 1437 🔗

That’s my stance.

61177 ▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Hubes, 6, #917 of 1437 🔗

I’m staying out of the shops for a few days-enough people will be doing the same to cause a dip in sales and for supermarkets especially as they have remained open since the lock down

61189 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Hubes, 2, #918 of 1437 🔗

The police won’t want the paperwork.
They’ll only bother if there’s a serious disturbance.

61211 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hubes, 4, #919 of 1437 🔗

Well said, go to it!

61264 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Hubes, 2, #920 of 1437 🔗

Apart from, here in Scotland, frighteningly many people have just put on masks and not questioned it at all. I hope it is because it is the People’s Republic of Scotland and many people obey Wee Jimmy without question. So, I really hope that England doesn’t conform, but just beware …

61317 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Hubes, 7, #921 of 1437 🔗

The shops that do try and enforce it will stop after about a week, when they realise their customers are going elsewhere.’

If any household name decides to bar ‘exempts’ they’ll find themselves set up with a genuine cast-iron exempt, the entry refusal being filmed, and then in court for disability discrimination. Anyone in their management chains with more than about six brain cells will surely be able to see that coming, and keep well out of it.

Absolute fucking drivel, carry on as normal folks.’

Yep, bang on the nail. And have fun!

61404 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Hubes, 2, #922 of 1437 🔗

I live in Cardiff, no muzzling in shops in Wales…yet, but I’m sure Drakeford will announce it soon. As posted earlier, Cardiff Bus said it was absolutely fine to use their buses without a mask – may need a brief discussion with the driver, but nothing more. I also made enquiries with a local taxi firm I use, same no nonsense response. I feel/hope the response will be the same across the board if the mask wearing requirement is extended beyond public transport here…I hope

I really do think that carrying on as normal is the only route out of this – just need people to bleedin do it. I will be.

61443 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Hubes, #923 of 1437 🔗

i’m going to drive to wales for my weekly shop which for now is maskless in shops (not transport, but probably not for much longer) Thankfully they’ve scrapped the severn bridge toll so will just over the bridge into chepstow – i think it’s in wales otherwise will have to go further west into newport! 🙂

61546 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sue, #924 of 1437 🔗

Newport ? That’s real dedication to the cause, sue. 🙂

61484 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hubes, #925 of 1437 🔗

My worry is that the police will decide to randomly stand outside shops and arrest people not wearing masks..

61547 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #926 of 1437 🔗

I often worry about bits of the sky falling on my head. We should meet up. 🙂

61147 Catherine123, replying to Catherine123, 6, #927 of 1437 🔗

Yesterday on LS, it was reported that more people under 45 had died on the road than from Covid … and I think there was hardly any traffic on the road for quite a while where I live. I’m seriously questioning what exactly it will take to wake people up … does anyone have any thoughts about what might put an end to this trance like state of not being able to consider anything else other than staying safe from a virus that isn’t that scary?

61151 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Catherine123, 4, #928 of 1437 🔗

I think at this point we are going to need UFOs landing in many western capital cities to pull some people from the abyss.

Sad, I know

61162 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #929 of 1437 🔗

Lol! Time to call for Paul Krugman!

DavidC

61153 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Catherine123, 7, #930 of 1437 🔗

I think some others have said before… Furlough ending and the millions on paid holiday suddenly having no job, no job prospects and no income. That will likely focus minds a bit.

At the end of July, as furlough stops being completely free to companies, my brother in law & one of my best mates are both immediately out of a job, their companies were just using furlough to keep them paid up as it didnt cos them anything. My uncle already lost his. More and more of this will occur now, and no amount of making people mask up is gonna stop the freight train full of shit thats coming our way.

61400 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Mark II, 2, #931 of 1437 🔗

My fear is, come October when Furlough ends, there may be serious civil unrest and violence, I hope I’m wrong, I really do.

61406 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Kath Andrews, #932 of 1437 🔗

Unfortunately I think you’re right. I hope the anger is directed against those who deserve it (the government) but the innocent will suffer too as their shops etc are looted.

61432 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Kath Andrews, #933 of 1437 🔗

I concur. There is usually a weekend at the end of September, or the week before, when the weather is good. People come out and spend money on booze. Police (I know a senior one locally) are prepared for it, but occasionally get overwhelmed – as they did when there was a very sunny/warm spike a few years ago at the end of October just after pay day. Imagine what people might do when they feel the hope has gone. No amount of ‘we are getting Brexit done’ is going to get Boris off the hook. God, do I hate them for what they have done already let alone what I fear is coming next.

61166 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Catherine123, 3, #934 of 1437 🔗

They’ve been subjected to cleverly carried out brainwashing, Catherine.

I guess cult de-programmers and/or therapists are the experts. Possibly large scale emotive gatherings might help. On a smaller scale, pubs, concerts, parties, events, etc.

61191 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Catherine123, 5, #935 of 1437 🔗

I think the onset of mass redundancies will be the trigger!

61154 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 13, #936 of 1437 🔗

I did a thought experiment earlier with Excel. Total UK population (officially!) around 67,000,000. Weight of a disposable face mask (from what I’ve been able to find anyway), around 3.5 grams. Assume 50% wear masks, 50% don’t, and of that 50% half make their own and half wear disposables. Total disposable wearers, 16,75 million. Each person wears ONE mask a day and disposes of it (odds are it will be more, hospitals etc). Total weight of masks = 16,750,00 *3.5g = 58,625,000g or 58.625 metric TONNES.

58.625 metric tons = 64.62 tons. Of waste masks. Per day.

DavidC

61158 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to DavidC, 18, #937 of 1437 🔗

Good job we are not concerned about the use of single use plastics.

61178 ▶▶ Biker, replying to DavidC, 20, #938 of 1437 🔗

i added up the weight of all the masks in the world and worked out that if we keep wearing masks until next spring the combined weight will tilt the earth off it’s axis and we’ll spin off into space. I’ve emailed my calculations to Brian Cox and he’s said that don’t worry Biker things can only get better.

61261 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Biker, 2, #939 of 1437 🔗

Brian Cox lol brilliant

61397 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Biker, 1, #940 of 1437 🔗

Class! 🙂

61480 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Biker, #941 of 1437 🔗

D:Ream on buddy.

61187 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DavidC, 1, #942 of 1437 🔗

WOW!!!!

61258 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to DavidC, 1, #943 of 1437 🔗

Fucking Getta will do her knut

61155 EllGee, 1, #944 of 1437 🔗

Just back from Morrisons; the shelves were practically as empty as when Lockdown began. The girl on the deli apologised for the lack of choice there but said they’d been incredibly busy with people buying before tomorrow and having to wear masks. The man behind me said he’d got his and he was wearing it. It was wrapped around his wrist. Conversation ensued with all the deli queue (except 1) as to how ridiculous it was. The girl on the checkout also said the day had been manic with people shopping whilst they could avoid mask wearing. Man behind wondered why today we were all free of Covid but tomorrow we’d have to wear a mask? Had somebody in government got tarot cards or something?
can home feeling quite happy really

61172 Aremen, #945 of 1437 🔗

Yellow masks: please see my post earlier today re this protest suggestion. It’s received quite a lot of thumbs up. I don’t do social media, and am really very unwell with all this, so is there anyone out there who likes this idea enough to set up something on twitter or facebook or whatever is the vogue? Thanks. I’ve contacted lockdowntruth about my suggestion as well.

61179 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #946 of 1437 🔗

I was pondering re masks and having to fill up the car .They say necessity is the mother of invention and today I learnt paying at the pump is easy and painless . YES ! so sorry wont be going into the station shop and sadly no more mars bars but I feel some slight elation.

61203 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #947 of 1437 🔗

Think of the health benefits of not eating those Mars Bars, then when you see a shop not pushing mask, pop in have a chat and enjoy a Mars Bar, and know that you have put your money in the right till.

Win, win

61183 Harry hopkins, 2, #948 of 1437 🔗

There’s an excellent five minute video by James Corbett (Corbett report) on the subject of ‘waking people up’. He makes the excellent point that you can’t wake people up when they’re pretending to be asleep. You need to watch it to get his meaning—enlightening.

https://www.corbettreport.com/how-do-i-wake-up-my-friends-and-family-questions-for-corbett-065/

61196 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 13, #949 of 1437 🔗

Also got a notification from a Fullers pub in West London saying welcome back showing a barmaid standing in front of a table with a laptop by the entrance, below was a sign saying Please Wait- well you will be waiting a long time to get my custom back. There has been a pub open past couple of weeks just up the road with no restrictions, sit at the bar etc. There is a clipboard just inside the door to put down your name and phone number. The person before me signed it Mickey Mouse, telephone number 111-1111

61202 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #950 of 1437 🔗

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/maintaining-records-of-staff-customers-and-visitors-to-support-nhs-test-and-trace

If someone does not wish to share their details, or provides incorrect information

Although this is voluntary, please encourage customers and visitors to share their details in order to support NHS Test and Trace and advise them that this information will only be used where necessary to help stop the spread of COVID-19.
If a customer or visitor informs you that they do not want their details shared for the purposes of NHS Test and Trace, they can choose to opt out, and if they do so you should not share their information used for booking purposes with NHS Test and Trace.
The accuracy of the information provided will be the responsibility of the individual who provides it. You do not have to verify an individual’s identity for NHS Test and Trace purposes.

61209 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to DavidC, 7, #951 of 1437 🔗

Mickey Mouse, you are good to go.

61235 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to DavidC, #952 of 1437 🔗

I’m waiting for a phone call, but what if I do receive a call. Should I then inform all the other pubs I have visited?

61242 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #953 of 1437 🔗

No

61300 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #954 of 1437 🔗

Absolutely not!

61389 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #955 of 1437 🔗

God help the person whose phone number is one out from mine 🥺

61393 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #956 of 1437 🔗

If you don’t recognise the number, just let the phone ring and ring and…

61301 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DavidC, #957 of 1437 🔗

I find the guidance puzzling – no surprise there!

You can tell them not to share your info but do you still have to give it? It reads as if that’s the case.

61199 Bella, replying to Bella, 2, #958 of 1437 🔗

Why masks are good for us. Sorry if posted elsewhere

https://twitter.com/Scimitar_SS/status/1286342781234024448

61296 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella, 1, #959 of 1437 🔗

That is very sad!

61204 Biker, replying to Biker, 11, #960 of 1437 🔗

Can’t claim this for myself cause i just read it but i really liked it. We and now being controlled by the Flu World Order. lol

61244 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Biker, 4, #961 of 1437 🔗

Rumour has it that if Johnson succeeds in getting most people to ‘mask up’—and hence proving beyond all doubt that the good people of GB will obey anything the ‘guvment’ says, however ridiculous—he will further push his luck by telling us that it has been scientifically proven that if we walk backwards we will significantly reduce our risk of catching Coroni.

Far fetched??? I know people who I’m convinced would accept this—do you?

61295 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #962 of 1437 🔗

Well some people are happy to jump in front of a car rather than pass within a metre on the pavement, so you’re probably right.

61352 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Harry hopkins, #963 of 1437 🔗

Interesting theory. This would explain the science behind one-way systems in supermarkets.

61217 Snarly, 11, #964 of 1437 🔗

Mrs Snarly did her last big shop at Tesco’s this afternoon before the masked mayhem starts. Lots of muzzles in our small seaside town already. But she also witnessed more ‘sheepleness’ than you would find on a Welsh mountain! Queuing behind several sheep in the checkout she noticed that everyone was queuing for this one checkout while there were another 3 or so checkouts waiting with no customers. So she went to the front of the queue and asked the lady at the front if there was one queue and would we be called forward by someone to an available checkout? She didn’t seem to have any idea so Mrs Snarly pushed her trolley to another checkout and turned around to notice all the others were following her, like the Good Shepherd, to the other checkouts!
She told the cashier that she was doing the big shop to avoid mask mayhem and the cashier relied that it was going to be awful, but she was going to voluntarily wear a muzzle just to be in sympathy with the customers. I’m really dreading it she said!

61220 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 4, #965 of 1437 🔗

Your concern about an inquiry is a good one. What possible use is an inquiry if it asks the opinion of the very people responsible for the mess we are in? And who will adjudicate on the conflicting scientific opinion? Lawyers. Really??
What we need is open data, and the freedom to draw our own conclusions from it. What the public services need is an inquiry about how the disease spread so rapidly inside hospitals, and what treatment (if any) proved effective.

61277 ▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, 1, #966 of 1437 🔗

What possible use is an inquiry if it asks the opinion of the very people responsible for the mess we are in?”

A really good question. There is a significant part of the scientific community who are total strangers to ‘Science’ in the sense of rational, critical enquiry.

Anyone with a ‘Sir’ in front of their name or an O.B.E after it is probably better excluded when looking for ‘scientists’ in that wider sense of objective assessment.They will be too likely to be invested in the establishment narrative

61222 wendy, replying to wendy, 39, #967 of 1437 🔗

I am feeling pretty low after reading the Government guidance on face coverings. I can hardly believe it is true. I keep asking myself if I am over reacting. I feel so angry and as if the country I have lived in all my life has been broken. What I can’t see is when will it be safe to stop wearing them?

61227 ▶▶ DRW, replying to wendy, 4, #968 of 1437 🔗

I suspect when the vaccine has been ‘gotten into people’ later this year/early next

61271 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to DRW, 9, #969 of 1437 🔗

This taps into my next fear of compulsory vaccination or exclusion from normal life.

61230 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to wendy, 10, #970 of 1437 🔗

Wendy – we here all feel the same. I read a passage from the Bible today: 2 Corinthians 3: 15-18. It left me in tears.

61272 ▶▶ Julian, replying to wendy, 6, #971 of 1437 🔗

You are not over-reacting.

61387 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Julian, 2, #972 of 1437 🔗

No – you are not over-reacting. Good will override evil in the end, it always does. The journey is not necessarily going to be easy though.

61479 ▶▶ Bella, replying to wendy, #973 of 1437 🔗

It’s safe now Wendy! And they don’t work anyway. Thought you knew this. Only after an uprising or reaction or whatever you care to call it (or several if need be) will this stop. Otherwise it’s for life.

61223 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 40, #974 of 1437 🔗

I now have difficulty believing that most people are genuinely scared of Covid. Before Johnson announced that muzzle wearing would be compulsory in shops, a minority of people wore them. People seemed to be getting back to normal without government interference, and I am convinced that if muzzles hadn’t been made mandatory in shops and similar tomorrow, we’d be seeing greater footfall. Therefore this dreadful policy will likely backfire and drive customers away from shops. The mask policy is purely pandering to a very vocal minority on social media/MSM, which makes me suspect that Cummings is driving a lot of these policy decisions because we know he is seduced by social media and data, which doesn’t represent the entire population. If everyone was supposedly scared, then wouldn’t more people have voluntarily started wearing masks? I have spoken to quite a few people lately in my social circle and work (supermarket) and the general consensus is that everyone knows it’s scientifically unsupported and total bollocks but ‘we have to do it anyway.’ People aren’t scared, they’re just unquestioning and will probably obey the muzzle edict because they want a quiet life and no aggro with shop staff/police. I also suspect that people obey because they (perhaps wrongly) assume that the sooner they submit, the sooner we can just ‘get this over with’. I wonder if a large part of the massive compliance is people genuinely thinking that their obedience to these ludicrous restrictions is the price they have to pay for going back to ‘normal’.

I sometimes wonder how different things would be if the MSM reported optimistic aspects of the saga, e.g. constant falls in deaths and hospital admissions, true IFR, cross immunity, balanced risk etc. as well as how damaging lockdown really is. I imagine we’d be pretty much back to the ‘old’ normal now but of course our elected politicians can’t possibly lose their jobs.

61231 ▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to Poppy, 11, #975 of 1437 🔗

Totally agree.My hope is that when people see us in shops not wearing masks,they will follow suit.

61270 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Poppy, 9, #976 of 1437 🔗

There are some people who are scared, for sure, but many that are not. Out and about (obviously there’s sampling bias) I see lots of people behaving normally. I doubt they are all sceptics, probably few of them are. They have largely moved on from covid, without really having clocked they’ve been had. They mainly go along with silly rules, when they have to. They probably don’t realise it’s forever. Question is, will they gradually get used to more and more silly rules or will they at some point, when masks have been mandatory everywhere for many months and there is no second wave, get fed up and start to kick up? I wish I knew the answer.

61338 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 7, #977 of 1437 🔗

That’s why ignoring the rules is so important. Set an example of the old normalcy.

61384 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 4, #978 of 1437 🔗

Young people will drive the ‘kick up’. Fundamentally, unless you are already paired off, young people ‘cruise’ for want of a better word – it is natural – you are trying to attract a mate, and how can you do that when you are viewing a masked face. Back to school for some, and university for others will be when this starts to get going, in my view. By October the Government will be running faster than ever to prevent us going over the cliff edge they have created to be concerned by mask wearing compliance.

61236 DocRC, 2, #979 of 1437 🔗

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCazIByfe_A&feature=youtu.be
More sense from Lord Gumption but later on in the webinar Rosenberg interviews an American ex-Judge who is a Covid Nazi…

61245 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #980 of 1437 🔗

Latest from the High Peak: On the walk to the shops we met an acquaintance out in the country. We already knew she was pretty scared but a brief conversation told us just how screwed up she really is – we think she is actually ill although young and clearly fit.. She cowered away from us as we approached and just basically gabbled at us when we tried to reassure her. She kept repeating, ‘I know everything, I know it all but we have to do as we’re told, we have to reduce the risk!’

She was beyond all reason and suddenly she asked me why we didn’t wear masks on the bus (we hardly use the buses, BTW). I told her she could ask but I was not obliged to tell her. At that point it seemed as if she suddenly realised how rude she was being, and she apologised! Anyway, I told her we were exempt and I’m not sure what she was going to say if I hadn’t said that. ‘Probably shocked beyond words!

Now here’s the good news: No muzzles in the small-ish Coop and there must have been at least 16 people in there. A couple worn in the street (one old man queuing for the dentist) but the biggest surprise was Morrison’s: There were actually fewer than last week! We had a good chat with a shelf-stacker friend who is more clued-up every time we see him and now totally totally pissed off with it all. Two very young women went by looking like they’d spent the morning on Instagram learning how to do exaggerated eye-make-up to compliment their lovely muzzles. They were actually swaggering, as if saying ‘Look at me’. Er, no thanks.

I also went in a small shop, asked about masks – no problem. They have also got rid of the hand-sanitiser. Weirdly there were more muzzles (4) in the hardware shop than the supermarket and one of those was a bloke wearing what looked like something cut up an old pair of swimming trunks flapping loosely off his face.

Who knows what tomorrow will bring? Happily, we’ll be up in the hills and well away from it all, for a few hours’ sanity.

61282 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #981 of 1437 🔗

RE: They were actually swaggering, as if saying ‘Look at me’.

The young ones are encouraged by silly stuff from stupid journalists, like this:

The 5 face masks you need for every kind of outing, from shopping trips to picnics One face mask is not enough if you are easing into a new normal, it’s time to get one for every occasion

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/fashion/style/what-face-mask-wear-shops-supermarket-picnics-work-office/

The cheapest mask is organic linen at £15.
The others all come in at £20 – though granted one of those was for a set of three neutral masks, “for family outings”

As family outings become more regular over the next few weeks, the easiest way to get your family into the habit of wearing face masks is to have a coordinating set. It’s best not to all have the same one, as confusion could prevail— anyone who has lived in a household of more than two know the same unspoken rule applies to toothbrushes. Mask Me UK’s neutral face masks set are a family friendly option made from cotton with elastic hoops (so easy to adjust for different face sizes) – even a 5-year-old can tell brown from beige.

I’m sure twitter and facebook are full of even sillier stuff. No wonder the young ones can’t think for themselves when their heads are filled with such rubbish.

61288 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #982 of 1437 🔗

“A fool and his money…”

61290 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #983 of 1437 🔗

Fairtrade materials, sustainably sourced for maximum virtue signalling potential!

61294 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #984 of 1437 🔗

‘one face mask is not enough if you are easing into a new normal, it’s time to get one for every occasion’

‘the easiest way to get your family into the habit of wearing face masks is to have a coordinating set.’

Shoot me now, somebody!

61335 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #985 of 1437 🔗

No Miriam. We need every sane person intact so they can set a sane example!

61305 ▶▶▶ Snarly, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #986 of 1437 🔗

I’m just waiting for matching tie and mask sets for business men in M&S.

61306 ▶▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Snarly, 1, #987 of 1437 🔗

Tie, handkerchief and mask set, surely!

61320 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Snarly, 2, #988 of 1437 🔗

And for those who are skint through loss of job: A cheaper and competing range at Primark!

61536 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #989 of 1437 🔗

I’ll wait until they get into the charity shops …

61345 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Snarly, #990 of 1437 🔗

How about scented or flavoured masks, so you can have a quick lick as you go about your business?

61416 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to A. Contrarian, #991 of 1437 🔗

What about a mask with a vape hole. Perhaps it could have a special velcro flap

61539 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Two-Six, #992 of 1437 🔗

Excellent idea.

61380 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Snarly, #993 of 1437 🔗

Friend of a friend has set up a new business doing matching sets – there is no hope.

61477 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Kath Andrews, #994 of 1437 🔗

Yes, a friend from uni is doing the same… madness!

61315 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #995 of 1437 🔗

Expext ‘Rayban’ (the designer sunglasses maker) to introduce a complimentary range to go with its glasses—nice!

61339 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #996 of 1437 🔗

That article must be a joke surely… If not, I think it’s time that humanity was eradicated.

61377 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #997 of 1437 🔗

I read it, reluctantly, it is not a joke. Made me feel sick.

61341 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, #998 of 1437 🔗

How do you wear a mask on a picnic, anyway?!

61408 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Cheezilla, #999 of 1437 🔗

‘To work out in: The combination of heavy breathing and sweat dripping down your face with a face mask on is enough to put anyone off exercise, even those who’ve discovered their inner Duracell Bunny during lockdown. When it comes to exercising alone, you probably won’t need a mask, but you may be considering reuniting with your gym partner or personal trainer in a park. If you plan on wearing a face mask, it’s best to invest in a linen option because the fabric is lightweight and cool. Plumo’s organic linen mask has four light layers and the hoops make it easy to have a water break.’

ENOUGH. I have been running 3-4 times a week for the past 9 years so I am well-acquainted with vigorous exercise and I just cannot imagine anything worse than having a muzzle clamped down on my face when I’m panting and need oxygen. Please God don’t let these horrendous things become commonplace when exercising.

61247 Basics, replying to Basics, #1000 of 1437 🔗

A retail bod standing in a Scottish shopping centre on BBC news (I think) just announced week on week physical retail shopping is coming back at 17% increase per week – in England the figure is 13%. Reason, masks. There you have it msm proof masks are fabulous and good, like a blessing you wear across your face really.

61254 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Basics, 9, #1001 of 1437 🔗

But it’s a BBC report – no longer believe anything they say.

61265 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 4, #1002 of 1437 🔗

I saw it. they were interviewing someone described as a “footfall expert”. Another “expert”. Have we not have enough of this type of person?

61273 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 2, #1003 of 1437 🔗

Its another example of making up whatever rubbish they like as they go along. I like to track the absolute ninsense of it in small intervals. There was no citing of how the fugures were arrived at or if the two were like for like. It is handy to keep an eye on how they do it. As a spectale the footfall expert is fine. But really, what is her real job? Footfall experts isn’t going to pay a mortgage.

61275 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1004 of 1437 🔗

Footfall expert? ROFL!!!

61304 ▶▶▶ Judith Day, replying to Tenchy, 5, #1005 of 1437 🔗

I self-identify as a bullsh.t expert.

61464 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 1, #1006 of 1437 🔗

Nothing to do with people being allowed back out again?

61266 Cheezilla, 1, #1007 of 1437 🔗

Caroline Stephenson – letter about mask exemption for shops and their websites.

(I recommend watching the video on double speed!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZspzNWC6jOg

Transcript here:
https://www.carolinestephens.net/blog

61274 Julian, replying to Julian, 18, #1008 of 1437 🔗

Has anyone read this (paywall):

The Coronavirus Act should be scrappedSteve Baker
Wednesday July 22 2020, 12.01am, The Times
O
n March 23 Boris Johnson gave the British people a very simple instruction: “Stay at home.”
Since then we have lived under the greatest restrictions on individual and collective civil liberties for a generation, imposed primarily through an act passed, fittingly, in 1984.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/conservatives-worthy-of-the-name-cannot-be-cavalier-with-civil-liberties-2mtntcmqd

It seems promising, from an MP

61284 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 10, #1009 of 1437 🔗

comment image
From yesterday.

61365 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1010 of 1437 🔗

I’ve just emailed his offices, I remember vividly that speech he gave in Parliament late March 2020; have asked him what is he actually going to do…aside from writing pieces for the Times and the Torygiraffe.

I don’t expect a response mind – en excerpt from the automated response received

Please be patient as we prioritise urgent casework. I regret my small team and I are not able to respond to template email campaigns at this time.”

61476 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #1011 of 1437 🔗

He should have spoken up long before now – what is the point of this article now, when Parliament is shut?

61323 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, 10, #1012 of 1437 🔗

ABOUT TIME! Come on you MP’s stop being such bunch of spineless supine tossers and stand up to this unprecedented removal of our rights and freedoms. NOW!

61462 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, #1013 of 1437 🔗

Wasn’t he in parliament the other day crying saying he believes in liberty but accepted that the restrictions were absolutely necessary?

61279 DRW, 2, #1014 of 1437 🔗
61285 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 18, #1015 of 1437 🔗

It’s just dawned on me that this compulsory mask nonsense could actually be our golden opportunity! What we need is an anti-mask/anti-lockdown person to test the law. So someone brave. And someone with legal backing. Are there any anti-lockdown lawyers out there? This person goes into a shop mask-free, refuses to comply and asks the police to attend. The person does enough to be given the £100 “fine”, and refuses to pay. Prsumably this then goes to court. At this point, we need maximum publicity. If the government has any sense (!), it will get the case stopped. If it is stopped, the precedent is set. We win. if it goes ahead, then the lawyer calls in all the experts in open court to give evidence why masks are useless, and why the lockdown is dangerous. The danger is that “experts” pro-lockdown and pro-masks will be able to give their evidence too, but the public will have been able to hear the arguments. But the government must surely realise that allowing the case to go ahead would run the risk of exposing their lies. As I say, win-win! But we need a brave soul who is legally savvy or with good advisers. I wonder if Peter Hitchens would be up for it? Toby: you must know him well…

61773 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Aremen, #1016 of 1437 🔗

The danger is that the courts will all have judges who have been paid to sit at home for months and read the papers and will likely have the view that this is a once in a millennium disease and we must do anything we can to stop it. Sadly biases like this will be very hard to overturn, hence our struggle against even friends who are covid fanatics.

61289 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 13, #1017 of 1437 🔗

According to a YouGov poll 50% of Scots would support another lockdown if the First Gauleiter deemed it necessary. Scotland, the country that gave birth to the Enlightenment, now has at least 50% of its population who are complete cretins.

61297 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Hammer Onats, 6, #1018 of 1437 🔗

Well, I assume that means 50% would not – if true, that’s pretty good – better than I expected.

61299 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #1019 of 1437 🔗

I’m relieved it’s only 50%!

61321 ▶▶ peter, replying to Hammer Onats, 6, #1020 of 1437 🔗

Yougov is 100% gov disinformation.

61356 ▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to peter, 1, #1021 of 1437 🔗

Yougov is bollocks – years ago, I used to complete their surveys…what a
naive fool I was – hey ho.

61385 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #1022 of 1437 🔗

Yougov no more needs saying.

61292 Edna, replying to Edna, 3, #1023 of 1437 🔗
61313 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edna, 6, #1024 of 1437 🔗

That’s fantastic info. Thanks Edna.

The regulations are set to expire after 12 months. Review is not scheduled for before 6 months.

!!!!

61474 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1025 of 1437 🔗

…which is why they waited till less than 12 hours before it comes into force before they published it – also to allow MPs to make a getaway to their (overseas) holiday destinations, well away from any constituents..

61318 ▶▶ matt, replying to Edna, 1, #1026 of 1437 🔗

That’s very good, yes.

61319 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Edna, 5, #1027 of 1437 🔗

They are a really good site but I think they may have missed something regarding ‘Reasonable Excuse’ – illness in the Statutory Instrument. They say that the Govt has missed off illness but I checked and it’s here:

4.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 3(1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include those where—

(a)P cannot put on, wear or remove a face covering—

(i)because of any physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability (within the meaning of section 6 of the Equality Act 2010(1)), or

(ii)without severe distress;v

61401 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #1028 of 1437 🔗

Well spotted Miriam. Thank you

61348 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Edna, 3, #1029 of 1437 🔗

“Review not scheduled before six months”. Ominous.

61349 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Edna, 2, #1030 of 1437 🔗

“A police constable may use reasonable force if necessary, but not others”.

What is reasonable FORCE?

DavidC

61302 Judith Day, replying to Judith Day, 11, #1031 of 1437 🔗

Re: Misleading information. I was in a nearby town yesterday and during a conversation with a shop owner about C19 he remarked that a friend working in the NHS told him that there had been 7 deaths from it in the town. I said I don’t think so; told him about the ONS interactive map of C19, we looked it up there and then – only 2 deaths registered as being C19.
It seems even NHS staff are spreading inaccurate and ‘scary ‘information. No wonder people are frightened.

61350 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Judith Day, 5, #1032 of 1437 🔗

I feel that some NHS staff are, albeit slowly, coming forward. Too little too late, but my hope is the truth will (partly) out from NHS staff – here’s hoping.

61359 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #1033 of 1437 🔗

Now the doctors have been awarded a pay rise but not the nurses, maybe some will nursing staff will speak out.

61426 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1034 of 1437 🔗

I hope so. I was speaking to a friend who is friends with a nurse in S. Wales – there-said nurse has some invaluable info to share; they are thinking about coming forward. I can’t divulge anything further as it’s not my account to tell as it were. I’m hoping they step forward.

61425 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Kath Andrews, 7, #1035 of 1437 🔗

Cricket practice tonight and an NHS doc was there. He works largely in care homes and said that he resisted the request to list death as Covid unless he was 100% sure it was the main factor in death. Also said that masks are 100% psychological as serve no medical benefit. In essence, he said all an absolute farce and he could not understand it.

61630 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Kath Andrews, #1036 of 1437 🔗

Let’s hope they come forward quicker than the 41 years it took at Telford and Shrewsbury NHS Trust!

61351 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Judith Day, #1037 of 1437 🔗

Where is the interactive map? That would be very useful.

61358 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Judith Day, #1038 of 1437 🔗

I chap I spoke to whilst out walking the dog told me he works in a care home in the town and had personally seen twenty people die of CV,according to the ONS map five people have died in this area registered as Covid related.

61369 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Judith Day, #1039 of 1437 🔗

I’ve just Googled ONS interactive c19 map and put my post code in. Just One death in next village but it says only from March 1 to April 17. Are the figures up to date someone else in this much detail?

61392 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Keen Cook, #1040 of 1437 🔗

Thanks, very useful.

61505 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Judith Day, #1041 of 1437 🔗

She could possibly be right though, the ONS figures are only up to the 10th July, so there could’ve been another 5 deaths in the 13 days since, and the ONS figures can be delayed if a postmortem or inquest is required it can take up to 3 months for those deaths to show up in the figures so this is another possibility.

61307 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 6, #1042 of 1437 🔗

The signatures have been piling in!!

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430

61308 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kbeanie, 1, #1043 of 1437 🔗

Fantastic!!

61314 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kbeanie, 1, #1044 of 1437 🔗

signed

61342 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to kbeanie, #1045 of 1437 🔗

Signed.

61346 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to kbeanie, #1046 of 1437 🔗

Signed & just sent the link to people who I hope would be interested.

Numbers are increasing

61468 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, #1047 of 1437 🔗

Gone up 50 now, in the 10 minutes since I signed 🙂 Getting close to 10,000 now..

61360 ▶▶ Philip Baynes, replying to kbeanie, #1048 of 1437 🔗

Just signed. 8540th.

61309 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 4, #1049 of 1437 🔗

Calm down, Annie. Don’t blow your top.
Two days ago I needed some air in my front bicycle tire so I went into a bicycle shop that I used to frequent some twelve years ago. I forgot to mask my face before I walked in, but adjusted it when I got inside to cover my nose. Blecch! One repair guy pumped some air in my front tire and then proceeded to take off the cap for the rear tire. I told him three or four times-in French-that the rear tire was fine and did not need air. Suddenly he lost his cool and started shouting at me in an aggressive manner, his eyes popping out of his head, pent-up anguish and frustration pouring out of him, screaming at me that I had not followed the rules. I told him that it was difficult to hear people speak with their faces covered. Then his partner started yelling at me, grabbed my bicycle, held it in the air and opened the front door. I followed him outside, unsure about what he was going to do next. His body language told me that he wanted to toss it on to the sidewalk, kick it and smash it to pieces, but, fortunately for him, he changed his mind and placed it against a street corner lamp post. I implored him to explain to me what I had done to anger him as he walked past me and back into the shop but he refused to answer me and slammed the door when he got inside.

61324 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to richard riewer, 4, #1050 of 1437 🔗

This is a sad example of the damage this – I don’t know what to call it any more…psych ops? Has done to everyday people. It is sad to hear that you had that experience.

61329 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to richard riewer, #1051 of 1437 🔗

Was this in the Paris area? Perhaps you have a bad French accent?

61519 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #1052 of 1437 🔗

I think Richard is in Canada – maybe Quebec ?

61689 ▶▶ annie, replying to richard riewer, #1053 of 1437 🔗

MON DIEU QUELS SALAUDS.
I just blew my top.

61310 PaulC, replying to PaulC, 14, #1054 of 1437 🔗

Reading the BBC headline that ‘over 50 people have died from Covid over the last 24 hours’. Strange they don’t say ‘1600 people have died over the last 24 hours of which 50 may have had some connection with Covid 19’.

61327 ▶▶ wendy, replying to PaulC, 5, #1055 of 1437 🔗

I think people don’t believe there are any other deaths happening. Everything is now Covid. It would be very useful to have a full death figure

61331 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to wendy, 11, #1056 of 1437 🔗

Did you not know?! Covid was the cure for cancer all along. And heart attacks…strokes…

61633 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to kbeanie, 1, #1057 of 1437 🔗

Yes – there does seem to have been a miraculous cure for all other causes of death.

For those who may have missed this miracle :

http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/cause_of_death_20jul.html

61344 ▶▶ Philip Baynes, replying to PaulC, 2, #1058 of 1437 🔗

It’s even fewer than that – 53 deaths were announced in the 24 hrs up to 4pm yesterday, but only 29 actually occurred in that period. These 29 being “with” not”of”, of course…..

61366 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to PaulC, 5, #1059 of 1437 🔗

Or “your daily chance of dying with Covid is now less than one in a million”

61312 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 10, #1060 of 1437 🔗

Just done an exploratory run to Waitrose. No Craster kippers which was inconvenient.

I would say more than half of shoppers were masked.

Spoke to chap at customer services, explained that my wife has a condition which makes wearing a face covering difficult. This person could not have been better, I asked about “bullying” from other customers, he said in this store they are going to have extra staff on the lookout for such activity & stop it if it occurs. Sounds promising.

On my way out I visited the filling station to see what that would be like, completely different…

“get out, get out , get out” the woman from behind the till shouted at me , “only one person in here at once”

Out I went and spoke to the person loading up the charcoal and wood at the front of the shop.

I said there is no sign to say only one person in the shop at a time, “we normally have a security guard, so don’y need a sign”. clearly they do. I asked about paying for fuel without a mask due to a condition, I was told “we will not call the police”

I would hope not have just put £70 in the tank, I think the filling station can go fill themselves.

Supermarket 5/5 for response, filling station 1/5 for replying to my question.

61336 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dave #KBF, 9, #1061 of 1437 🔗

Seems like there will be a considerable amount of trial and error involved in this thing. Testing the waters in each individual place – I imagine we will end up in places where nobody is masked, and nobody cares, and the bedwetters will all end up in Sainsburys. This will create a sort of two-tier shopping system. The smaller businesses will end up like the black market of retail, filled with people who don’t give a fuck and want to live normally. The big chain places will become the new ‘prestige’ shopping destinations where you have to virtue signal to be allowed entry.

Great stuff. – Actually yeah. Great. I don’t wanna be around loads of floating pairs of eyes on necks anyway.

61368 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Farinances, 8, #1062 of 1437 🔗

When I left the Waitrose store, a bloke about my age 60ish, was loading the boot of his car, dutifully wearing his gobstopper, we were in the middle of a very light rain shower, the air was lovely and fresh. I wanted to scream at him, remove the *ucking mask and sample this great fresh air.

I though better of it and though well if he wants to kill himself by slowly restricting his breathing so be it.

61458 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Farinances, 2, #1063 of 1437 🔗

From what I have heard, Sainsburys seems quite sane – they have said they will not enforce it and will not challenge anyone without a mask. Morrisons, on the other hand, have said they will need to see a medical certificate as proof of exemption!

61473 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Chicot, 1, #1064 of 1437 🔗

One’s medical history is between you and the doctor. I believe (although I could be wrong) that this is one of the reasons why doctors are not providing exemption letters.Neither Morrisins nor the police have any ‘right’ to see that information.

DavidC

61811 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to DavidC, #1065 of 1437 🔗

Yes, exactly. Problem is stores always have the right to refuse admittance. Still, I think there’s probably potential for taking them to court for discrimination against the disabled.

61540 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Chicot, 1, #1066 of 1437 🔗

That’s good to know as my local is a sainsburys. Has Coop and Lidl said anything?

61818 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Farinances, #1067 of 1437 🔗

Sorry, can’t remember if I’d seen anything about those. I remembered Sainsburys and Morrisons as they were the extreme examples on opposite ends of the spectrum. Also, there’s always the potential problem of some local jobsworth taking it upon themselves to police the law, regardless of what head office says. I plan to try Tescos (my local) at first and then, if challenged in any way, to say “Fine. I’ll go to Sainsburys then.”

61465 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #1068 of 1437 🔗

Or do you think people will just shop online instead?

61542 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 2, #1069 of 1437 🔗

Both. Online for non essentials, small shops for essentials- as far as possible. That’s what I’m doing anyway. Luckily I’ve become very adept over the years at avoiding Amazon, I will never forgive those fucks for putting bookshops and music shops out of business.

61316 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 24, #1070 of 1437 🔗

So I just saw this post on Twitter and it genuinely made me think…

‘If wearing a mask does not affect your ability to breathe, why is it not recommended or mandatory for people with breathing problems to use?’

61333 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to kbeanie, 5, #1071 of 1437 🔗

Yes, this.

61413 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to kbeanie, 7, #1072 of 1437 🔗

It is not recommended at all for people with Heart conditions as well, but this is not being flagged up, in fact exemptions are not being flagged and most folk seem to think they have to wear them no matter what.

We are going to see a lot of Ambulances at Supermarkets, Shopping Centers, and High Streets with people collapsing.

61436 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, 3, #1073 of 1437 🔗

Someone sent this to Simon Dolan:

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1286345625873809409

I feel very sorry for the old lady.

61463 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1074 of 1437 🔗

Needs to be sent to Matt Hancock’s Twitter feed..

61498 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #1075 of 1437 🔗

Exactly. This is far worse than what I saw two weeks ago when a woman nearly passed out.

We will get more of this guaranteed.

61594 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1076 of 1437 🔗

Terrible. We also have the children in China who died after being forced to wear them in gym lessons.
I guess there’s a reason we never evolved a giant oxygen restricting cover in front of our mouths.

61703 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cicatriz, #1077 of 1437 🔗

And there was that bloke in the US or Canada who collapsed and died after wearing them whilst jogging.

61726 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Bart Simpson, #1078 of 1437 🔗

good, i hope they buried the dumb fuck in his mask

61589 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to kbeanie, 1, #1079 of 1437 🔗

Indeed. I’m planning on running a test soon. I don’t drive and it’s a 10 minute walk to the supermarket. The return trip is all up hill, so I intend to check my heart rate with and without a face mask (this will be every bit as scientofically rigorous as a WHO sponsored HXCQ trial).
On the grounds that it increases my heart rate when performing the same physical load, it is clearly not good for you.

61332 Grafton, #1080 of 1437 🔗

theme tune suggestion for tomorrow: Billy Idol “Eyes without a Face” (suprised it hasnt been suggested before)

61372 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 4, #1081 of 1437 🔗

Following my earlier post about chipping away at anybody and everybody, I had a pleasant chat with three of my neighbours. Our children/grandchildren have been playing together for ages now and run in and out of each other’s houses all day long.
I think VE Day did it for them-Social distancing went out of

61391 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Margaret, 8, #1082 of 1437 🔗

(Sorry, twitchy fingers!) the window and we never looked back after that.
This morning, we started talking about face masks and I was horrified to hear that none of them, including one who is a community police officer, were aware that there were exemptions to the new rules which meant that they didn’t have to wear masks if it caused them great distress. This message needs to be spread far and wide as it just isn’t getting through.

OH and I are at the airport hotel now for early morning flight. We went to the terminal wearing our sunflower lanyards as we didn’t want to be refused entry to the terminal or the plane in the morning. The lady to whom we spoke couldn’t have been nicer and said there would be no problem at all and no one would question us.

61506 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, #1083 of 1437 🔗

Which terminal/airline please Margaret ?

61382 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 1, #1084 of 1437 🔗

I came across this a long time ago, but thought it would be apropriate here to explain the degree of sheep-ism: https://risk-monger.com/2020/03/08/docilian-dreams-and-the-covid-19-nightmare/

61467 ▶▶ matt, replying to IMoz, #1085 of 1437 🔗

It’s too true and too depressing.

61490 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to IMoz, #1086 of 1437 🔗

‘Docile !’ was a favoured insult back at school in the 60s.

61605 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, #1087 of 1437 🔗

How things change; now it’s a desirable characteristic, it seems 😉

61388 davews, replying to davews, 6, #1088 of 1437 🔗

Another useful exemption:
visual impairments, with a restricted field of vision, particularly if any residual vision is at the lower edge of the normal field of view
Which implies everybody with varifocal or bifocal glasses where the bottom bit is needed for reading.

61525 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to davews, 1, #1089 of 1437 🔗

Where did you find that?
It’s not on the updated gov page.

61396 Paul, 8, #1091 of 1437 🔗

A shopping trip to Farmfoods today was depressing in several ways.More masked zombies than I have ever seen in one place before,the staff,who used to just wear those stupid flimsy plastic visors when on the tills,are now wearing the sinister black polyester type muzzles that cover the whole face below the eyes and I heard a young mum chastising her little three or four year old daughter in a way that I found disturbing.
The little girl was happily walking around in her own world and went and stood next to my wife and was watching her do the shopping,the girl’s mum noticed and shouted down the shop to her,’you are standing too close to that lady,come back here’.So did she think my wife was going to infect the little tot or did she worry her daughter might infect my wife ?,I’m pretty certain it was the former.How the hell does that woman think her daughter is going to grow up balanced and healthy with her instilling fear of other human beings into her ?.Later on the little girl girl told me to ‘get out of their shop’,I assumed she was just playing and being cheeky but after hearing her mother I’m not so sure.

61402 Bart Simpson, 19, #1092 of 1437 🔗

Greetings fellow sceptics!

Today was the first day my workplace was open and unsurprisingly it was a ghost town – some people liked it because it wasn’t crowded and they could take great photos but of course its bad news for us and I seriously doubt that visitor figures will shoot through the roof especially with more redundancies and bankruptcies looming over the horizon.

Some of the OTT cleaning was rolled back thankfully but our staff area was a fairly dystopian scene of signs constantly reminding us of antisocial distancing and cleaning.

Our gift shop has been told that they are not to enforce the mandatory muzzling tomorrow.

Despite all of the above it was nice to be back if only to get away from my area which is not exactly great.

Also good news as the two supermarkets near my workplace are not enforcing the mandatory muzzling either. The staff I asked looked rather pissed off with the government and the nonsense they’ve had to put in place.

So all in all not a bad day!

61407 Cecil B, replying to Cecil B, 17, #1093 of 1437 🔗

Another three shot on Broadwater Farm today. I think Mrs Dick would be better focusing her efforts on that rather than the face nappy thing

Perhaps she could shame the gunman into giving himself up

61415 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Cecil B, 5, #1094 of 1437 🔗

She’ll only be interested if the gunman didn’t wear a mask.

61418 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Cecil B, 9, #1095 of 1437 🔗

No, she needs to concentrate on those disgusting mask rebels and those people who say mean things in twitter. Also, she needs to ensure rainbows are painted on police cars and officers know how to kneel appropriately.

61437 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cecil B, 5, #1096 of 1437 🔗

She and Khan both really need to go. Usless both of them – the Tweedledum and Tweedledee of London.

61688 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1097 of 1437 🔗

Does Khan’s religion encourage forced marriage? If so, I think he should marry Dickhead and put her in purdah.

61705 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #1098 of 1437 🔗

Polygamy is allowed so in that case she can be wife number 2!

61724 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 1, #1099 of 1437 🔗

His religion also believes in flying Donkeys. Anyone who believes if flying donkeys needs to not be any where near power.

61417 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 6, #1100 of 1437 🔗

For the last four reported weeks (week 25–28) ‘flu and pneumonia “mentioning” deaths have exceeded COVID-19 “mentions,” in week 28 there were nearly three times as many ‘flu/pneumonia deaths (917) as COVID-19 ones (366) — ONS data

Anyone heard anything of the sort in the media?

61434 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to IMoz, 1, #1101 of 1437 🔗

Of course, I’ve heard nowt about that.

61517 ▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #1102 of 1437 🔗

It was reported in Metro yesterday. It does provide strong support for theory that we have a lot of herd immunity for Covid, or it would be competing better with these other viruses (especially if it’s more fatal, but it looks like it’s about the same).

All these viruses have likely been squashed a fair bit by the changes in behaviour (most of which were before the lockdown) but obviously not to nothing. Yet Covid-19 has almost completely died out. This would be extremely improbable if we were really at only 5% immunity.

61529 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, 2, #1103 of 1437 🔗

At least one newspaper is doing their job.

I don’t think it’s herd immunity; it’s more likely that it’s cross-reactive immunity kicking in—afterall what can “asymptomatic” possibly mean other than “immune”?

61882 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #1104 of 1437 🔗

The likely cross-immunity is a subset of the herd immunity. I just mean the virus not spreading well because it’s not finding enough hosts.

62118 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, #1105 of 1437 🔗

Fair enough, I’ll give you that!

61421 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 1, #1106 of 1437 🔗

The WOTO statement about 71% of people wearing masks led me to look at the ONS data.Some interesting stuff at https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandwellbeing/bulletins/coronavirusandthesocialimpactsongreatbritain/latest#leaving-home

The data file includes answers to “How safe or unsafe do you feel when outside your home due to the Coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak?”. 32% feel unsafe, 39% don’t know. Only 29% say they “feel safe”. It seems unsurprising that so many are prepared to accept the idea of masks when they are told it will make them feel safer.
Propaganda beats logic and known facts.

61515 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Polemon2, 1, #1107 of 1437 🔗

39% don’t know?? There’s no hope.

61591 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to A. Contrarian, #1108 of 1437 🔗

Quite. How can you not know if you feel safe or unsafe… They are literally waiting for someone else to tell them how they feel, you can only assume…

61424 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 7, #1109 of 1437 🔗

Reasonable excuse for not wearing a mask has to include anyone who has had a positive PCR or antibody test surely? That include Toby 🙂

61766 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to The Spingler, #1110 of 1437 🔗

You don’t want to go there – health passport anyone?

No one should wear a mask

61427 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 12, #1111 of 1437 🔗

I am presently located in west Kerry – just about as far from Dublin as you can get. I’ve been here for the past five months. I’ve heard rumours of perhaps two or three people within a ten mile radius who perhaps had the virus in the time I’ve been here but that was months ago.

Yesterday I was refused service in a village shop for not wearing a mask.

I’ve just heard this happened to someone else in another village shop three miles away.

The law in Ireland does not say a person can not be served if he or she does not wear a mask but that that person can be subject to being fine.

The logic of this disposition is that people should be starved in to submission.

Has owt like this happened in Scotland?

61445 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #1112 of 1437 🔗

The cult of St Nicola is so strong there is almost 100% compliance with a significant proportion of the cult’s cretins wanting it to be made compulsory to wear muzzles outside.

61449 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1113 of 1437 🔗

So much for the Kingdom.

61469 ▶▶ DJC, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #1114 of 1437 🔗

We are dealing with a deep irrationality. Try not to be too hard on people, they have been subjected to such an intense propaganda frenzy from RTE and the Dublin regime that it would really take an iron character and a naturally skeptical predisposition to resist. I’m starting to think that the best approach is to step mentally outside it all and not let the madness get inside you, just refuse to succumb to it but also refuse to let it define how you choose to live. I’m in Kerry too by the way!

61481 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DJC, #1115 of 1437 🔗

A pair of rakes !

61597 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #1116 of 1437 🔗

Sorry, the rakes are from Mallow. It’s been a long day. 🙁

61872 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to JohnB, #1117 of 1437 🔗

Never heard that term before, but then, I am only a Jackeen 😉

61924 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ewan Duffy, #1118 of 1437 🔗

Irish folk tune, The Rakes of Mallow. Which for some reason I thought was The Rakes of Kerry.

61433 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 28, #1119 of 1437 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/23/universities-ban-house-parties-overnight-stays-part-social-distancing/

Universities to ban house parties and overnight stays as part of Covid rules: Social gatherings of any kind will not be permitted in halls of residence and guests will be barred from entry

—–

I don’t even know where to start. Please shoot me now. When will this insanity end?

My boyfriend will be going into the final year of his undergraduate degree of in September and I will be at a different university starting a postgraduate diploma. Thankfully I will not be living in halls of residence but he unfortunately will be. I imagine lots of other students will also be living in private rented accommodation where such dross measures will not apply. Does this mean I can’t stay over at his place of residence? This is actually more restrictive than current measures whereby overnight stays are currently permitted (oh thank you so much, Dear Leaders!). And surely those students who do live in halls of residence will get around this restriction by just visiting their friends in private accommodation, rather than inviting them over to their halls. It therefore cannot be enforced and is totally useless.

Not only that, but this measure is just total insanity. Imagine trying to control horny 18/19/20 year olds to this extent. This age cohort is also not adversely affected by the virus. I really don’t understand what this measure will achieve. Stopping people from having sex normally doesn’t end well and I think it’s really rather cruel to take away what should be a few years of freedom, fun, and fledging adulthood.

I have come to the conclusion that those in government who have dreamt up these social distancing policies are psychopaths. I don’t mean that in a hyperbolic sense, I mean it in a literal sense. I constantly ask myself ‘Why?’ and look for answers to the nonsensical and rather cruel lunacy unfolding around us. None of it makes sense, it’s like there’s a massive jigsaw piece missing from the puzzle, and I think the reason for that is because the people who dream it up are psychopathic and don’t think like normal human beings. I refuse to believe anyone with a shred of empathy would implement a policy that can only be described as psychological warfare and possibly even genocide. The knowledge of the amount of harm, suffering, and death that the lockdown, economic harm from said lockdown and masks/social distancing will cause over the next few years would be enough to destroy a normal person’s psyche with guilt, so how else can these utter gimps live with themselves?

61439 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Poppy, 8, #1120 of 1437 🔗

I’ve just read that piece in the Torygiraffe, left a comment, used the F word – it didn’t get through. Amended comment with £$%. Got through. Forgive my ignorance, I haven’t read your post in full – but I really do strongly feel that we simply (I know none of this is simple) need to just ignore all of this nonsense. Just ignore it all. If enough people do then, surely, we will overcome. I think the ‘state’ is hoping that we obey and police ourselves….but what if we don’t?

61440 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Poppy, 2, #1121 of 1437 🔗

I am dreading uni this autumn too, with this attitude they deserve bankruptcy.

61441 ▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to DRW, 4, #1122 of 1437 🔗

They don’t deserve bankruptcy. They, and the government, deserve exactly what they got in 1968. The year of the Hung Kong Flu. But who thinks of that any more when you mention “1968”? The student protests for which that year is best known actually started as a revolt against the segregation of male and female dormitories.

61451 ▶▶ Emma, replying to Poppy, 5, #1123 of 1437 🔗

I can’t understand the rationale for this. Universities have already lost a chunk of money from overseas students no longer coming; now they seem to want to put off the rest of this year’s cohort. Are they getting a big bailout or something and they no longer need the bums on seats?

61455 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Emma, 2, #1124 of 1437 🔗

Nobody’s going to be allowed to defer. You take your place this year or you don’t get your place. And don’t forget, this year’s intake will be the “lucky” ones who didn’t have to sit their a levels.

61459 ▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to matt, 4, #1125 of 1437 🔗

I have two young people going this September, neither in this year’s A level cohort. One has been told there will be no deferrals, but after this news I think both may consider it not worthwhile.It’s an impoverished offering, with no reduction in fees.

61453 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Poppy, 14, #1126 of 1437 🔗

this government just wants to withdraw all activities that people enjoy, or make it so unpleasant that people just say fuck it i’ll stay at home with a bottle of wine and netflix. It’s a really bleak existence to be honest with the nation on it’s knees.

61461 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sue, 8, #1127 of 1437 🔗

Wait till the autumn & winter roles in, I suspect we will see a rise in the number of suicides from what happened in the past.

Who can blame anyone for thinking about it?

Sorry to be so negative but it does feel like we are looking at being in this mess forever.

I have mental health issues and a few years ago what is happening at the moment would have been enough I suspect to push me over the edge.

I will be standing strong, if only to see what happens at the next election, unless they push through legislation which says they can stay in power indefinitely

61502 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #1128 of 1437 🔗

Stay strong. I have no intention of killing myself, but if it crossed my mind I wouldn’t do it without taking a few of those responsible for this with me.

61512 ▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Bella, 8, #1129 of 1437 🔗

Suicide has seriously crossed my mind also. Sorry in advance for oversharing, but a couple of weeks ago, I was close. Luckily (weird term to use) I was so full of gin, nothing happened, just a night of staring into a never ending black hole. Over recent days, something has shifted, still depressed as fuck, but I want to stay around to see how this plays out. Surely human will, nature and faith will win…

61530 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Kath Andrews, 7, #1130 of 1437 🔗

Kath, you’re saying sorry for ‘oversharing’. I say THANK YOU for sharing and I hope it’s helped you by doing so. I’ve had bouts of depression for most of my adult life and I’m used to being on my own never having married or had children (much as I would like to have done) – when I go through low periods (I’ve had two during the lockdown) having an awareness of what’s going on (Winston Churchill’s black dog!) has helped me to cope, even though the experiences continue to be ‘not much fun’.

I had a Zoom meeting a couple of weeks ago where, with the discussion by other ‘Zoomers’ talking about the second wave, the ’emptyheads’ not wanting to wear masks and so on, I did think, even with my degree in Microbiology, ‘Is it ME? Am I so WRONG?’. But sites like Lockdown Sceptics, OffGuardian, InProportiion2 and others, and the various commenters here, have helped my feelings of beinf RIGHT about what’s going on.

Please, continue to share!

DavidC

61596 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Kath Andrews, 3, #1131 of 1437 🔗

Yes Kath have faith. The people will realise what bullshit this is in time in numbers that are significant enough to change the direction of travel.

Like I have said before, we are so isolated and compartmentalised now its hard to talk to other people about this situation and how they feel about it. Yes most people don’t really care, they are working from home, loads of money, no commute, life is good. As long as they don’t actually think about anything apart from what garden furniture to buy or what they are going to spend thier cash on.

Well even they will realise sooner or later how we have been scammed. The scam is so huge it cannot be swept under the carpet and hidden for much longer. There are also a lot of people who think this is all bullshit. We just don’t hear from them.

Once the dam start to leak there will be a torrent in no time. The backlash will be huge. Hopefully. Look forward to that happening. In the mean time try to do something that takes you away from it all for a week or two, or even just for a few hours. Disengage if you can. It helps.
It’s a pantomime now.

61685 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Kath Andrews, 3, #1132 of 1437 🔗

That’s the spirit.
Never forget that we are perpetually poking them in the eye by living as sceptics. Before long, the poke will not be in the eye. Sharpen a stick and be ready.

61706 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #1133 of 1437 🔗

Thank you for sharing as people need to be made aware of one of the consequences of this lockdown.

As you said human will, nature and faith will win and the truth will set us free.

61531 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bella, #1134 of 1437 🔗

I hope I did not give that impression, that is not what I was trying to get across.

61563 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bella, #1135 of 1437 🔗

At some point, the blaze of glory route will be too tempting for me to resist.
Probably after the government decides that SARS-CoV2 can be transmitted over the internet, so it needs turning off.

61478 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sue, #1136 of 1437 🔗

Other options are available … 🙂

61482 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to JohnB, #1137 of 1437 🔗

?

61583 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, #1138 of 1437 🔗

To staying at home with a bottle of wine and netflix.

61722 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Dave #KBF, #1139 of 1437 🔗

yeah John B will have you watching lunatics like Dr Cole so you can pretend to know stuff others don’t. It’s great. You get to feel all special and then you get to ignore how you’re a dumb fuck and a laughing stock to anyone who can think.

61980 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 1, #1140 of 1437 🔗

Chill, Big B.

Vernon Coleman is definitely unusual. Cross dresser. Extreme vegan. And a couple of friends who have had professional dealings with him say he can be dubious, a prima donna. and over-cautious/paranoid.

But his stuff on the current bollocks is excellent, and reaches many many people. He speaks with medical authority, and has a track record of standing up to the bad guys.

So I recommend people take a look at his videos. If they are not everyone’s cup of tea, that’s fine. No ‘lust for result’ here. 🙂

62241 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to JohnB, #1141 of 1437 🔗

I wouldn’t have thought cross dressing and veganism should affect the intellect.

DavidC

61500 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Sue, #1142 of 1437 🔗

That’s actually my ideal evening…

61501 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Poppy, 1, #1143 of 1437 🔗

Why the f* would anyone bother going to university under these conditions?

61617 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1144 of 1437 🔗

Folk still need teaching how to pull statues down, they ain’t gonna fall down by themselves!

61508 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 1, #1145 of 1437 🔗

I think universities have a death wish. Their record with regards to what is supposedly their pastoral care to their students is already abysmal, this will only make things even worse than before.

61684 ▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 1, #1146 of 1437 🔗

Poor you. These ought to be the best years of your lives. A cliché, but clichés are clichés because they express truths.
I simply cannot understand how university dons can embrace this psychopathic stupidity. At least, not all of them. A few must have some brains, surely.
Ignore the whole bollox, Poppy. Students are supposed to be rebellious. You have a reputation to live up to. Starting with the 1001 Ways of Getting into a College Without Being Detected by Authority. When I was in Cambridge, many years ago, some colleges had strict gate hours, and their students had comprehensive mental maps of access points. One bloke I knew, with a room on the ground floor, complained he never got a good night’s sleep because of revellers returning through his window and over his bed.

61438 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #1147 of 1437 🔗

Not sure if this has already been posted – study from Universities of Toronto and Texas:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8553929/Lockdowns-DONT-work-study-claims.html

‘Government actions such as border closures, full lockdowns, and a high rate of COVID-19 testing were not associated with statistically significant reductions in the number of critical cases or overall mortality’ and

‘It was population demographics and underlying health – particularly obesity rates – which has determined which countries have been worst-hit by the virus, the researchers found’

61444 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #1148 of 1437 🔗

That’s what I’ve often thought – to be blunt, the UK figures look bad because we have a lot of oldies & fatties (and I say that as as semi-oldie myself but definitely not a fattie).

61447 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Edward, #1149 of 1437 🔗

Preliminary study from one of the New York hospitals about 3 months ago identified this, but of course, it was ignored!

61454 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1150 of 1437 🔗

The first part – government actions made no difference to mortality – was the thrust of the lancet article linked to yesterday. Interesting this is coming out so close behind.

61495 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, #1151 of 1437 🔗

Like I said yesterday, there’s been a rash of them this week. Something is going on, I’ve learned over the last few weeks that nothing in what’s reported is accidental. Look at the way masks were massively overpromoted the week before they were announced to be compulsory in shops. If anything like this ever gets reported by the BBC, we’ll know something’s afoot for sure.

61579 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1152 of 1437 🔗

Different factions – little green aliens from Andromeda versus big grey aliens from Alpha Draconis ?

61680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to A. Contrarian, #1153 of 1437 🔗

Watch the.p BBC become the fearless champion of the undoubted fact that lockdowns don’t work!

61527 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to matt, #1154 of 1437 🔗

It’s the very same study, the Lancet article, not a new one.

61491 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Edward, 1, #1155 of 1437 🔗

The UK figures look bad because they have been skewed

61507 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Edward, 1, #1156 of 1437 🔗

Early on in the Covid crisis I did check out UK obesity figures and was surprised to find we are not as bad as you might think. I reckon there are two things in play here:

1. Brits are happy to flaunt their girth in tight clothing whereas people, from other countries may be more concerned to disguise their weight.

2. We are obese from eating food that isn’t very nutritious whereas people in countries with better food habits don’t get so ill from eating bad food. So our obesity is more disease-causing

61460 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #1157 of 1437 🔗

Many of us didn’t need a comprehensive study to see that lockdowns were unecessary.

Even the most cursory glance at the worldwide critical care cases constant at around 50k was enough to tell me the death toll was never going to be in the millions globally. And if it wasn’t going to be millions globally it was never going to be 500k in the UK.

61637 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1158 of 1437 🔗

Well – fancy that! I would never have worked that out 🙂

61679 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1159 of 1437 🔗

I note that they print the pro-lockdown claims alongside, backed by the awesome authority of Poison Professor Pantsdown. This column includes a flat statement that closing schools proved effective, but that was related to an entirely different outbreak which did affect children. Covid 19 dies not, but I don’t suppose DM readers understand even that. They are certainly being lied to at that point.

61452 Adam, replying to Adam, 7, #1160 of 1437 🔗

This petition actually looks to be gaining interest. Gone up by around 4000 signatures since this afternoon.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430

61457 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Adam, #1161 of 1437 🔗

9,460 so far – needs to be many more than that to have any effect… but even if it reaches the level to get a Parliamentary debate, MPs are all off on holiday now…

61466 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Carrie, 1, #1162 of 1437 🔗

Yeah, I know it has an awfully long way to go. Didn’t think about the MPs holiday though. Bugger!

61486 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Adam, #1163 of 1437 🔗

9627 now!

61493 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Carrie, #1164 of 1437 🔗

About 20 per minute currently. That would take three days to reach 100,000 roughly…!

61510 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lockdown Truth, 10, #1165 of 1437 🔗

FFS. They reply after 10000 sigs. Reply consists of “Yeah, we’re not doing that”. Debate after 100000 sigs. Debate consists of “Well, we’ve talked about that, then”.
These are the people who locked you in your own fucking house. Oh, and they’ve just gone on their jollies.

61545 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1166 of 1437 🔗

Yeah we know all that! This is a sceptical community!! But we also know MPs are craven creatures and if they get just a whiff this might cost them 100, 200, 500 votes in their constituency they will be worried. You only need 20 or 30 worried Conservative MPs on your hands…that’s a full scale revolt.

61535 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1167 of 1437 🔗

Let’s all share and hope then! Although you might be unlikely to get 20 signatures an hour through the night!

61678 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 1, #1168 of 1437 🔗

It’s OVER THE 10,000 NOW. And counting.

61488 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Adam, 1, #1169 of 1437 🔗

Our lumpenparliamentarians do follow these petition numbers. Let’s see if we can get it to 100,000…

61543 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, #1170 of 1437 🔗

Nearly at 10,000 now (about 70 to go) – people are signing despite it being late now – so should rise faster during the daytime.

61485 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Adam, 1, #1171 of 1437 🔗

Just signed it. It’s the least we can do.

61470 OKUK, 10, #1172 of 1437 🔗

So we approach M minus 1 hr… yes I am running with a D Day analogy here…

Johnson is sending the brightest and bravest of his principles (individual liberty, rule of law, democracy and humanitarianism) to be machined gunned down by the reality of his Government’s actions – a kind of nightmare version of Omaha beach.

I predict this Mask Madness will seriously hobble the economic recovery and so create a political crisis. The Craven Conservatives may not care much about principles but an economy in free fall will get their attention.

61471 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 24, #1173 of 1437 🔗

Considering it’s my birthday today I have ended it feeling very down in the dumps. We had a lovely meal out in a restaurant that managed to preserve a very old normal feel but the spectre of having to either wear a mask or play my exemption card tomorrow has worn heavily on me. I am not the kind of person who flaunts their ailments for sympathy. This “hidden disability’ narcissism makes me cringe. The last thing I want to do is feel obliged to tell people about my health issue or use it to gain some sort of privilege.

I have this week spoken to several people with genuine medical reasons not to wear a mask who are so scared of being shamed on social media or abused in public that they are refusing to go to the shops. How on earth have we reached a situation when some of the most vulnerable people in society are afraid to go out and buy essentials because the Chief Constable of the Met and the Health Secretary have openly incited vigilantes to challenge people for not doing something tomorrow that was legal and safe today?

61492 ▶▶ Emma, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 6, #1174 of 1437 🔗

Happy birthday anyway 🙂

61499 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #1175 of 1437 🔗

Happy Birthday! This is all horrible, but Happy Birthday anyway.

61511 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #1176 of 1437 🔗

Happy Birthday and yes Cressida Dick is a disgrace – she should go for her crass remarks.

61576 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #1177 of 1437 🔗

Must control cliche-phile fingers … no use … Crassida !

61677 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 2, #1178 of 1437 🔗

Fetida Dickhead.
Her horrible and illegal incitement to violence will come back to haunt her.

61513 ▶▶ birdwatcher, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1179 of 1437 🔗

you dont ever have to disclose your health issue and its not a privilege to not have to cover your face. Its insanity to wear a face covering in these circumstances and refusing to do so is standing up for all those vulnerable people who are too afraid to go out for fear of the backlash. It doesnt matter if you have a ‘genuine’ health issue or not, you can choose not to cover your face at the moment and you don’t have to justify that to anyone

61526 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1180 of 1437 🔗

Penblwydd hapus AWD!

61587 ▶▶ Paul M, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #1181 of 1437 🔗

Happy birthday 🥳 please dont let the bstards spoil your special day

I keep my anxieties hidden, have no need to publicise then in normal circumstances so have never had to. And I’ve been quite happy I manage them – no one knows my secret, can cover it up, but not now.

We are being forced to identify ourselves and beg understanding for our conditions at risk of abuse from brainwashed eyes-on-necks.

Shove your exemption in their face so all around can see what ill-informed bigots they are.

Dick and Cock should hang their heads in shame and be hauled before the courts for discrimination.

Have some retorts up your sleeve, here’s one for starters..

Them shouting; ‘You’re not wearing a mask..”
Me; ‘I’m not wearing any knickers/pants either, do you want to shout about that?’

I’m sure other board members will have others.. (some may start with f and end with the same)

61602 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Paul M, 1, #1182 of 1437 🔗

Them shouting; ‘You’re not wearing a mask..”
Me; ‘I’m not wearing any knickers/pants either, do you want to shout about that?’

I’m going to use that one! Excellent!

DavidC

61622 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to DavidC, #1183 of 1437 🔗

and i laughed …. thank-you!

61691 ▶▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to Paul M, #1184 of 1437 🔗

That’s made me laugh out loud – thanks for that, Paul.

61989 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Paul M, #1185 of 1437 🔗

Good one. My favourite is still cupping my ear and saying “Pardon ?” though. 🙂

61676 ▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1186 of 1437 🔗

Happy Birthday! Keep your courage up. Have hope. They cannot conquer fir ever,

61472 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1187 of 1437 🔗

https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/four-months-unprecedented-government-malfeasance/

A very well written article from US about the lockdown catastrophe in the US.

61538 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to swedenborg, #1188 of 1437 🔗

Excellent article. Applies to the UK, too.

61675 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cicatriz, #1189 of 1437 🔗

Indeed. Sums up the entire shithouse.
By the way, zI wonder how many wokies can still remember the name of Thug Floyd, or even what happened to him?

61503 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #1190 of 1437 🔗

Been out shopping today, everything looked fine, no different, Been to Wethy’s tonight, everything looked fine, no different. Healthy number of people in.

Funny thing, staff girl said she’d heard that we could be locked down within 24 hours, worried, needs the hours, got kids to feed. I thought “just daft rumours”.

Local TV news tonight says lockdown imminent.
Course, we’ve got testing centres round the region, so guess what?

If I could spell violent insurrection, I would be seriously thinking about it. But then, I’m just a numb nuts Northerner, so what do I know?

Thanks again, Boris.

61534 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, #1191 of 1437 🔗

Whereabouts are you?

61557 ▶▶▶ Paul M, replying to Carrie, 2, #1192 of 1437 🔗

I would guess thats the one town in lancs that’s very near to me. Blackburn perhaps?.

Bit bothered as we are due to stay in a picturesque area near reservoirs for our 10th wedding anniversary next week (we are usually abroad but obviously that was kiboshed this year).

Councillors have stated it should only apply to 3 wards, but perhaps PHE want to stomp their jackboots elsewhere.

78/100,000 (0.078%) – could largely be false positives…?

61719 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, 3, #1193 of 1437 🔗

Ankh Morpork. Kidding, no, it’s the home of the Co-Op. And grooming gangs, Satanic Abuse, Cyril Smith and other celebs. Rochdale.

Haven’t wanted to mention location before, I think a degree of anonymity is good online, but people need to know about this shit.

61509 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1194 of 1437 🔗

Vernon Coleman is getting more wound up by the day.

Rather than point at any one video, here is the entire channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6F39mg7LPUkw1BfiJDibw

I think it is worth looking a few of his videos.

61520 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1195 of 1437 🔗

I obviously don’t know him personally, but I get the feeling he is a very learned and kind person. He’s been making observations, medically based predictions for half a decade – he hopes – as I’m sure we all hope, that he’s wrong with regards to the content of his recent videos. He’s never been wrong in the past though.

61523 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #1196 of 1437 🔗

He’s a wayward spirit…the sort we need, rather than the robots we have. But he is very hit and miss… he provides a lot of ammunition for the Lockdown ideologues.

61528 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to OKUK, 1, #1197 of 1437 🔗

I really enjoy his videos – even though they paint the ‘worst picture’ as it were – but I’m glad somebody is saying something to challenge the BS CV-19 narrative nonsense. I am always sad after watching his videos, but I think it’s important to feel emotionally challenged and keep questioning – cheers OKUK.

61537 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Kath Andrews, 1, #1198 of 1437 🔗

I enjoy his videos and as a free speech advocate I couldn’t care less when he goes “off piste” (in my judgementl). But unscrupulous Lockdown Ideologues will use the off piste moments to discredit lockdown scepticism as a whole.

61550 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ birdwatcher, replying to OKUK, #1199 of 1437 🔗

Its a myth that there is a right way to present info that will stop people with the opposite agenda from discrediting it. Surely the last decade should’ve made that blindingly obvious. We have to stop playing this game of pretending that if we only try hard enough to be ultra perfect then the other side will have to listen and wont be able to turn anything around to argue against us. Its BS

61554 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to OKUK, #1200 of 1437 🔗

Yeah, I agree and get where you’re coming from. Outwardly we need to be consistent, forthright and calm. That’s all that’s needed (think / hope). I could be wrong, often am, but, surely if enough of us just ignore all of this, just ignore it……mmmm, maybe I’m talking nonsense…

61574 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, #1201 of 1437 🔗
  • nutjob notions
  • hit and miss
  • off-piste

You’ll be expanding the reasoning behind these descriptions, OKUK ?

61611 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, #1202 of 1437 🔗

I could. But I won’t. But if you persist I will.

61619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 1, #1203 of 1437 🔗

Suit yourself. But it seems like a bit of a slagging off exercise against someone with 230,000 video views. This puts him up there with Hitchens, Dolan, and Toby.

61627 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, #1204 of 1437 🔗

I am sure David Icke has more. I only count the valid arguments, not the likes.

61560 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Kath Andrews, 2, #1205 of 1437 🔗

Agreed Kath.

I’ve only started viewing Vernon Coleman’s YouTube videos during Lockdown (although a friend of mine has one of his books, about cricket!) but there’s been nothing I’ve seen, yet, that suggests ‘nutjob notions’.

DavidC

61614 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to DavidC, #1206 of 1437 🔗

Not even “it’s fun to ride a van without brakes”.

61615 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 1, #1207 of 1437 🔗

We call those sort of remarks ‘jokes’.

61624 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, -1, #1208 of 1437 🔗

Well it’s best to signal you are telling a joke by varying your intonation rather than by continuing in the same dry monotonal delivery. But leaving that aside the cold text allows a lockdown maniac to suggest Coleman is a madman who encourages young people to drive vehicles with faulty brakes whilst also telling them to disregard the risks of Covid.

61632 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 2, #1209 of 1437 🔗

He assumes he’s speaking to an intelligent educated audience. The bastard.

61521 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1210 of 1437 🔗

Vernon is fun to watch every now and then but in no way should he be promoted as a serious spokesperson for lockdown scepticism. He weaves in far too many nutjob notions. We have a rational spokesperson for lockdown scepticism and it’s Toby Young. No one else comes near.

61608 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1211 of 1437 🔗

Is he still married to the woman from Strictly Come Dancing?

61625 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to JohnB, -1, #1212 of 1437 🔗

no but the dead Bruce Forsyth talks more sense than him. Cole is laughably foolish and can only appeal to the special people whom think they know stuff you don’t. He’s a grifter after the not very smart but unaware they’re stupid dollar, it’s a big dollar, Cole is very clever to do his. David Icke has been mining this seam for decades. Good luck to him

62001 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 1, #1213 of 1437 🔗

A bigger dollar than those who hate advertising ?

62235 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Biker, #1214 of 1437 🔗

I might pay more attention to what you’ve written if you had his name correct but you’ve got it wrong TWICE. See also JohnB’s comment below – Verob=non Coleman doesn’t advertise on his site, he’s not taking money!

DavidC

61524 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 19, #1215 of 1437 🔗

Pissing into the wind.

Here’s a letter I’ve just emailed to the CEO of Tesco and my local MP – much good may it do me!

I live in hope that the major supermarkets are as frustrated at this fiasco as we are, and have some clout with the powers that be.

Mr D Lewis,
Chief Executive, Tesco plc
Tesco House
Shire Park
Kestrel Way
Welwyn Garden City
AL7 1GA

23 July 2020

Dear Mr Lewis,

MASKS IN SHOPS

We have not corresponded before, and I have no doubt that this letter will have little impact. Nonetheless, I need to write it to show that the faceless have not also become voiceless.

My wife and I have been regular shoppers in your xxx, xxxxxx Store since we moved into the area over 20 years ago. I regret that we will now be doing most of our shopping in such places as xxxxxxx Market, where we are able to buy food without the imposition of a mask.

The Government has said that we need to wear masks in shops in order to give the public the confidence to venture out and get the economy back on its feet. I fear that this is woefully misjudged:
a)     the sight of shops full of people in masks at the very time when the Covid virus is burning itself out, will heighten the levels of fear among those members of the public who are already nervous; it will not give them reassurance
b)     customers who resent the imposition of masks, like ourselves, will not be shopping

I know that the mask policy is not your imposition; I do not propose to debate the effectiveness of masks here, other than to say that the evidence in favour is as flimsy as most of the masks I have seen worn. However, I do ask for your help.

Can I urge you, and your colleagues at the other major supermarkets, to keep a careful track of footfall through the stores and share this data in real time with Government and the media. If the policy of masking up is shown to be reducing, rather than increasing, footfall, this may steer the Government towards recognising that it has made a serious error of judgment.

Thank you for taking the trouble to read this letter.

Yours sincerely,

cc xxxxx MP

61532 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #1216 of 1437 🔗

Excellent letter. Well done. It will have an effect! Dictatorial regimes always monitor letters v closely, They need to monitor opinion just as much as free governments, I think I will start writing e mail letters to various appropriate MPs. We should all get writing.

61553 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to OKUK, 2, #1217 of 1437 🔗

I keep threatening to write to my MP, but keep putting it off because I don’t expect a reply. However, it’s getting harder and harder to resist.

61612 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Adam, #1218 of 1437 🔗

Just do it. Tear them a new one.

61758 ▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Adam, #1219 of 1437 🔗

I’ve written twice just this week. I recommend doing it.

61533 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #1220 of 1437 🔗

Excellent letter – needs to be sent to the CEOs of *all* supermarkets! And other major stores, for that matter..

61674 ▶▶ annie, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #1221 of 1437 🔗

Excellent. Supermarket moguls need to know that there are people with money, brains, no masks, and an ability to write goid English, all of which are rare but highly valuable traits. Particularly, to a supermarket mogul, the first.

61765 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to annie, 1, #1222 of 1437 🔗

“goid English”. Damn that keyboard 🙂

61541 David101, 1, #1223 of 1437 🔗

The final nail in the coffin on the theory of the effectiveness of masks: You only have to look on the back of the packaging containing the type of face masks that have been government-mandated; it states in clear, unambiguous terms “This is an ear loop mask and does not protect against COVID-19, or other viruses or contaminants”. In other words it is useless. So why do they continue to push it?

https://www.newswars.com/face-masks-mandated-by-uk-government-specifically-say-they-dont-protect-against-covid-19/

61544 nfw, replying to nfw, 17, #1224 of 1437 🔗

What I find amazing about the face mask wearers is they virtue signal by wearing a mouth arrest device but then remove it to talk. Now let me see, when would there be more contagion (yeah right) being expelled from the mouth when the wearer has the mouth arrest device up when talking or when the talker has the mouth arrest device down? As they don’t care they don’t think and just virtue signal. Morons. Can’t prove identity when shopping or remove the mouth arrest device to talk to anybody in a shop. Well done Boris, moron

61604 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nfw, 19, #1225 of 1437 🔗

I posted this earlier this week, if someone says something to you with a mask on keep on asking them to repeat what they said. It really pees them off, and it’s a subliminal way to increase people’s hate of masks.

61548 nfw, replying to nfw, 9, #1226 of 1437 🔗

The best thing about this mouth arrest stupidity is Toby Young will no longer vote Conservative. Heard him tell James Delingpole on their London Calling podcast.

61558 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to nfw, 19, #1227 of 1437 🔗

I was a BIMBO – “Boris Is My Best ‘ope” – how cruelly I have been let down. The fact he succumbed to the virus was bad enough but that he now embraces the masked idiocy is too much. He is dead to me, politically speaking.

61616 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to OKUK, 6, #1228 of 1437 🔗

yes and a large proportion of the conservative party and his ‘borrowed labour voters’ too i’m sure…be interesting if he survives the winter of discontent coming up or commits hara-kiri in political terms…time will tell. Unfortunately no politician is particularly credible or trustworthy.

61599 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to nfw, -1, #1229 of 1437 🔗

Yeah right, this is just like to football fan who s always says “I’m not supporting them anymore” or “I’m chucking away my season ticket”, but you can guarantee they’re at the next match!

61641 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 3, #1230 of 1437 🔗

Yes…but is there a “match”, really? In what sense were Anna Soubry, Dominic Grieve and Lord Patten trying to “defeat” Labour or the Lib Dems after 2017? How many of the nearly 99% of Conservative who support enforced mask wearing actually have any love of liberty in even the smallest degree? I’m not seeing it.

61549 Adam, replying to Adam, 17, #1231 of 1437 🔗

I AM SOOO SICK OF THE MEDIA HALF-TRUTHS!!!! It’s actually starting to make me so angry that I almost experience physical pain!!

On the BBC news website, there’s an alarmist headline “Trump Cancel Republican convention as virus SOARS”, referring of course to the increase in daily cases in the U.S. over the last month. I happened to plot the graphs of the U.S. cases yesterday out of curiosity. Indeed, the daily new cases does look very alarming, but when plotted as a percentage of daily tests taken, yes there is a slight increase, but still only a fraction of the peek U.S. daily new cases in mid-April. I showed the graphs to a friend of mine who point-blank refused to acknowledge the relevance of the data I’d shown him. (He’s been wilfully sat on his arse for the last 4 months on public money, refusing to go to work, which says a lot.)

61590 ▶▶ David101, replying to Adam, #1232 of 1437 🔗

“Seek and ye shall find”. Reminds me of “Test-fest Leicester”! You know, I think if we if we investigated it fully, we might find a local Hay Fever Pandemic here in Lincolnshire!

61595 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Adam, 5, #1233 of 1437 🔗

I think Trump is going with the masks to call the Democrats bluff, so that they can’t now say it’s too dangerous for people to go out and vote, and thus reducing the amount of postal votes.

61551 Ozzie, #1234 of 1437 🔗

This has just appeared on the Telegraph website:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/23/supermarkets-refuse-enforce-face-mask-rules/

“Major supermarkets and coffee chains say they will not enforce new rules which say customers should wear face coverings from Friday.
Sainsburys, Asda, Co-op and Costa Coffee are among retailers saying they have no intention of policing the laws, which carry a penalty of a £100 fine.”

61552 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 16, #1235 of 1437 🔗

This has just appeared on the Telegraph website:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/23/supermarkets-refuse-enforce-face-mask-rules/

Major supermarkets and coffee chains say they will not enforce new rules which say customers should wear face coverings from Friday.
Sainsburys, Asda, Co-op and Costa Coffee are among retailers saying they have no intention of policing the laws, which carry a penalty of a £100 fine.

61561 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Ozzie, 11, #1236 of 1437 🔗

The numbers of people food shopping are unlikely to increase dramatically from the numbers over the last few months just because things are “opening up”. If anything supermarkets have been seeing record profits in all this time and people going out to eat/drink would reduce supermarket shopping. There is absolutely no logicial reason for compulsory mask wearing in supermarkets when hardly anybody was wearing them before.

The supermarkets will know this and won’t want to scare shoppers away, the smart ones at least.

61607 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #1237 of 1437 🔗

absolutely – i went to tescos today and there was a queue and reckon people stocking up to avoid in the next few days/week or so. I’m hoping in 2-3 weeks it will calm down and be more relaxed on the mask issue – tescos have removed their one way system etc – here’s to hoping!

61613 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sue, 2, #1238 of 1437 🔗

I’m assuming it will be calm and relaxed tomorrow, sue. 🙂

(The AK47 will be for show only).

61672 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 1, #1239 of 1437 🔗

Have you a spare AK47 I can borrow? For show only, unless provoked.

61567 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ozzie, 9, #1240 of 1437 🔗

That’s encouraging. The supermarkets may be realising they are in bidding war – I am one for sure who will not shop in a store that vets mask wearing on the door. As soon as I hear of somewhere that doesn’t vet I will head there.

61572 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to OKUK, 13, #1241 of 1437 🔗

In my state (Washington), the governor declared that the businesses will be punished for not policing… he is also encouraging citizens to rat each other out. In my town, some lady sat outside a grocery store in her car, taking pictures of people without masks on, then went in and took pictures of employees not wearing masks. She posted all of those pictures on the local news station’s facebook page.

This is the problem when your governors adopt what I can only say, frankly, are evil and tyrannical tactics, and when you have a frightened population that is all too willing to go along unquestioningly, which has very little to no regard for their neighbors, and who are very happy to turn people in.

This is why I say all of that garbage about “you wear a mask for me and I wear a mask for you,” and stuff about caring about other people’s lives, etc… is sheer bullshit. People are self-interested, they are afraid for themselves, and they don’t care at all what happens to anyone else, so long as they can be made to feel safe. That this has become political makes it worse, you can demonize people not wearing masks as, by default, Trump supporters… and you already don’t give a damn what happens to them. Put them all in jail, for all you care. That this is happening during a time of intense social polarization makes it all the worse.

61578 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RyanM, 7, #1242 of 1437 🔗

The USA is effectively in a silent civil war. It’s no longer about health and safety, it’s a power struggle.

61588 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1243 of 1437 🔗

Here only the Police have moved in that direction suggesting mask wearers shame non mask wearers even though they might have perfectly lawful exemptions.

61696 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nobody2020, #1244 of 1437 🔗

Sorry, think I may have down-voted you by mistake!

I was going to uptick and say that I think you’ve made an astute observation here.

61618 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to RyanM, 15, #1245 of 1437 🔗

This is exactly what’s happening — if masks only protected the wearer then we’d all have the right to say no and make it an individual choice, but because they’ve claimed that it protects others it now gives others the right to insist we protect them. It’s quite insidious. Not only are we selfish, evil, monsters for not wanting to keep others “safe,” these strangers believe it’s their duty to shame us and force us to comply by any means possible. They’re doing the government’s bidding and loving it. This bullshit about the mask only protecting other people doesn’t even pass the smell test — the virus particles only travel one way, like the infantile one-way arrows on the grocery store floors? And they’re already using the same argument around a vaccine — you need to take it to protect others, no matter what it might do to you. It’s a slippery slope and the sheeple refuse to see it.

61673 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1246 of 1437 🔗

If the bugs only travel forwards, the appropriate answer to a Zombie Shamer must be ‘Get thee behind me, Satan’.

61621 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RyanM, 4, #1247 of 1437 🔗

Ouch. Yes that’s bad.
So what happens to the people on facebook she took photos of? Have the cops come and arrested them? Or was it just a storm of vile Facebook comments from keyboard warriors? Perhaps if people took pictures of her and posted them around that might stop that kind of thing pretty quickly.

62006 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #1248 of 1437 🔗

Hopefully lots of people know her name and where she lives ?

All the best, Ryan.

61601 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Ozzie, 9, #1249 of 1437 🔗

absolutely correct of the supermarkets – if the government bring in a law it is their responsibility to police their enforcement/shoddy law – not some poor supermarket worker on minimum wage!
Funny the other day in supermarket and those annoying alarms went off and i joked to the shop worker oooh it must be that expensive champagne i forgot to scan, he said “i’m not paid enough to care” – i thought that was hilarious!

61555 RyanM, #1250 of 1437 🔗

If any of you would like a little encouragement and a bit of common sense for a change, give this podcast a listen. The first bit was particularly good:

https://ricochet.com/781800/back-from-the-future/

61556 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 21, #1251 of 1437 🔗

Does anyone else have a partner who doesn’t agree with your skepticism? Not necessarily opposing views, but enough to cause division?

This masks debacle is pushing me over the edge. I want to make a stand and the answer back is “So you won’t wear a mask for 10 minutes to buy food? You’re gonna leave it to me?”

Even though she knows something isn’t right, there is none of my anger and she certainly doesn’t share the utter hatred I have for the current government and the MSM.

I cannot force anyone, including my wife, to read and find out for themselves. That said, the lies and propaganda broadcast through other media has been so relentless that voicing any opposition seems to now be falling on deaf ears.

61559 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Howie59, 9, #1252 of 1437 🔗

No, thank God. 🙂 My wife is just about as upset about it all as I am. Unfortunately, it makes her more depressed while it makes me angry. So I have to play the optimist, which isn’t so terribly difficult…

61564 ▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to RyanM, 8, #1253 of 1437 🔗

Sounds bliss. I had a “Will you damn well give it a rest” in the car home tonight, followed by 10 minutes silence.

61568 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Howie59, 4, #1254 of 1437 🔗

Report her (anonymously) for holding illegal raves. 🙂

61573 ▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Howie59, 9, #1255 of 1437 🔗

We did have radio 4 news on at the time, which was the trigger point for my outburst.

I lie actually. It was a news item highlighting the plastic mountain that will be created from the use of disposable masks. That prompted her into browsing her phone and suggesting a website that sold some kind of designer masks.

Well, that was simply red rag to a bull…

61606 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Howie59, 2, #1256 of 1437 🔗

🙂 Radio = phone = bad for you !

I can only hope the magic that is Country & Western can save you both. Recommend ‘Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen’.

61664 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Howie59, 6, #1257 of 1437 🔗

Switch off BBC for sanity’s sake.

61566 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Howie59, 7, #1258 of 1437 🔗

I walked through my local shopping centre on my way to the park on the other side. I’d “forgotten” my mask and just walked through no problem. My wife felt the need to distance herself from me though and walked a few feet behind me. At least she now knows her place.

61666 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1259 of 1437 🔗

Wife should be in front through COVID minefield.

61571 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Howie59, 22, #1260 of 1437 🔗

Hi Howie59 – I’ve lost a dear friend of 20 years who is so down the rabbit hole of nonsense, there is no return. It has been agonising, but I have made the decision to cut ties with my father and step mother – my dad thinks lockdown has been amazing – saving the planet, less people on the planet will be amazing (what the fuck!!!). I don’t know where to start begin or end – he is so woked to the climate change bullshit, millions of lives lost is nothing to him. Met someone in Feb, so gripped are they by this utter nonsense, they will maintain 2 m distance until….the vaccine is found. That’s the end of that then 🙁 Luckily, I’ve got sane friends and this site. I empathise.

61582 ▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Kath Andrews, 10, #1261 of 1437 🔗

I sympathise Kath, I really do.

My mother who is 75 was shielding herself for the first couple of months. I visited her in the first month and made a point of giving her a hug. She backed away at first but relented.

After many, many heated conversations, she has finally come around and is doing her own shopping (non-skeptic brother was doing it for 2 months till I told him he had to stop) and seeing friends again. I worry now that she will slip back again with the mandatory masks and this fresh wave of propaganda.

61600 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Howie59, 6, #1262 of 1437 🔗

Saw an old lady collapsed on the pavement today…didn’t get involved as there were already two or three people around her trying to help. This is more often a winter scene where the old person has slipped on ice or frost. I noticed she was still wearing her mask but under her chin now, not around her mouth. ..could this be an example of dyspnea – build up of CO2 in the lungs. How many old people are falling victim to this and then breaking hones as they fall?

61635 ▶▶▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to OKUK, 8, #1263 of 1437 🔗

It will never be admitted though. I have seen a recent surge of articles pushed out over the last week, vigorously disputing the fact that masks reduce oxygen intake and increase CO2.

I don’t believe a word of them though and personally cannot believe that covering the mouth and nose does not cause some reduction of oxygen intake, especially in older people whose anaerobic capacity is naturally diminished.

Our trip in the car today was to the dentist. I won’t even begin to describe the military operation we had to follow. Suffice to say, we had to wear masks whilst waiting for each other. 20 mins suffering was enough for me to know that the lunacy behind this policy is definitely not health reasons.

61831 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Howie59, #1264 of 1437 🔗

There is loads of solid evidence that almost immediately after donning a mask your Oxygen levels fall to an unsafe level almost immediately. Levels that are specifically deemed to be unsafe under Health and Saftey at work guidlines.

61655 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 9, #1265 of 1437 🔗

Remember those early pics/films of people keeling over in Wuhan? We were allowed to believe it was from the Covid rather than compulsory mask wearing.

61828 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to OKUK, #1266 of 1437 🔗

I said yesterday that this would be a common occurrence. The elderly collapsing in the street. Coming to a town near YOU very soon. Brush up on your first aid skills everybody, you are going to need them.

61603 ▶▶▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to Howie59, 3, #1267 of 1437 🔗

Hia, thank you for your response. I hope you and your mother sustain your relationship and that she doesn’t slip back into the propaganda.

61650 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Kath Andrews, 6, #1268 of 1437 🔗

Sad to hear that Kath. Part of the plan is to break down family units. See BLM manifesto and other sources. I don’t know anything about your circumstance so please don’t think I’m critising. This whole thing is weighting on many many relatiinships, part of the attack on us.

61835 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, #1269 of 1437 🔗

Yes, there is a massive split between me and my family now.

61702 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Kath Andrews, 6, #1270 of 1437 🔗

I also fell out with a friend and just managed to avoid falling out with two others. The friend I fell out with lives next door to the sister of a member of the Scientific Council giving bad advice to Emmanuel Macron. She showed me photographs of her neighbour’s brother sitting there right beside the President of the French Republic. We live in a small town in the Auvergne. A few years ago a little restaurant opened that serves local products and in normal times it goes like a fair. I went to have a look at it during house arrest – still selling a few bits of ham and cheese for people to eat at home. At that point my friend’s neighbour walked past me and didn’t even reply when I said hello. I shouldn’t think her brother would be any nicer. And to think it’s because of idiots like that that prosperous little businesses have to do without income for months. I saw red and wrote an angry email to my friend, not that it was her fault, in which I’m afraid I used the three-letter c word to describe her neightbour’s brother. Later I apologised and we were still just about on speaking terms. Then I told her about someone in a flat in Grenoble who at the height of lockup filled in a different form with a different time of day on it and went out as often as she liked. That was the last straw for my former friend. She thought the woman in Grenoble should have been reading books and learning things and entertaining herself from the Internet. We were supposed to be showing solidarity with each other and staying at home. So that’s my sad tale of lost friendship.

61575 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Howie59, 6, #1271 of 1437 🔗

Generally speaking my wife and I are quite closely aligned politically but Covid has created a bit of tension for sure as I think she has become more fearful of infection than me, But I think the Mask Madness has brought us closer again. She doesn’t believe the propaganda about the benefits of masks.

61598 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Howie59, 12, #1272 of 1437 🔗

My husband is on the same page but is simply the pragmatic one and will do what needs to be done. Thankfully he has agreed to go into the stores for food and the like. I will do other tasks for the family that don’t require me to wear a mask. Could you make a similar deal with her? We’re just trying to work together as a team to get through this. Where we get into conflict is when I want to talk about it all the time, get angry, ask him to read this or that, etc. So we’ve had to compromise — I try to not talk about it all incessantly and bring up issues strategically, and he listens just enough so that I don’t feel too alone and unheard. I feel for you because it’s been difficult on us and we actually agree! That’s why this forum is so important for many of us.

61629 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #1273 of 1437 🔗

I don’t go out of my way to try and force the issue with people. I mainly just listen to what’s being said then drop in the odd comment about how such and such doesn’t make sense.

Usually if people can’t make sense of it themselves they’re forced to agree with you. It’s subtle but can be effective.

61640 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1274 of 1437 🔗

He agrees with me 100%, but just can’t stand to listen to me rant all the time! I can’t say I blame him as I can get quite down and negative. It’s hard to have optimism and I understand why he doesn’t want to hear the latest nonsensical rule, stupid op ed, and the like. He’s very supportive but we process things differently so it’s about striking a balance. I also have my 23-year-old here until mid-August so I have to be careful not to be too negative around her, but I have to say I’m disappointed when I hear about her bedwetting friends. For a time I thought the young people would flout the rules and get us out of this mess, but I realize that was a pipe dream.

61645 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 7, #1275 of 1437 🔗

My thought on the younger generation is that many of them don’t really know their place in the world. They’ve possibly not been brought up to have much independent thought so when something like this comes around they’re either incapable of questioning (if I’m being nasty) or they see it as an opportunity to prove their worth to society (if I’m being nice).

Neither of which are particularly laudible traits as they’re both signs of conformity. Now I realise this is a sweeping generalisation but based on what I’ve seen it fits with the “snowflake generation” moniker.

I still remember the footage when Trump won the elections of students curled up in balls crying their eyes out saying it was the worst thing that had ever happened to them.

61667 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #1276 of 1437 🔗

I think it’s both — they don’t have the critical thinking skills to question and they also want to virtue signal like their friends. I didn’t raise my girls that way and my eldest daughter agrees with me on the issues (the younger is trying to work on her university courses and stay oblivious) but just wants to get back to the gym, had to use public transit by necessity, and is willing to compromise in order to see her friends. I get it. The young people haven’t lived long enough to see this government overreach as the existential threat it is. She’ll be a teacher next year and it terrifies me to think she’d be forced to take a vaccine or not be allowed to work. The younger generations don’t realize that the mandatory face muzzle (she hates when I call it that) is just the first step; the same argument being made — that it’s for the protection of others — is the same rationale they’re already trotting out in anticipation of a dangerous vaccine. I fear for my kids. My husband and I can stay holed up and refuse a vaccine because we’re retired, but my children are in a much tougher position.

61821 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1277 of 1437 🔗

Most of the young people I know have been flouting the rules for ages now.My daughter has been going to the pub and she says social distancing is not being practiced.Also all the kids who have been denied school have been playing around the estate for weeks .

61841 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1278 of 1437 🔗

I watched some young people having a great time paddling an inflatable canoe down the canal yesterday, 3 of them, all in the little boat. It was GREAT to see them having loads of fun. Across on the other bank, 3 more youngsters sitting close to each other on a bench, having fun….
The skate park was RAMMED.
Yer social distancing is leaving the building.

61686 ▶▶▶ Suze Burtenshaw, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 6, #1279 of 1437 🔗

Lisa, your home situation sounds pretty much exactly like mine! My husband is prepared to muzzle up to shop but will not wear a mask: he will wear a stretchy neck warmer thing pulled up, bank robber style.
I try not to bombard him with Covid nonsense but just can’t stop myself at times. I get so angry and frustrated, followed on some days with a horrible depression. We muddle on, him being patient (for the vast majority of the time), me raging. I can only imagine what it must be like for the poor souls who feel as we do but live alone, and only have mask/lockdown fans as friends.
PS the neckwarmer is stretchy rather than for stretchy necks…

61671 ▶▶ annie, replying to Howie59, 7, #1280 of 1437 🔗

My other half is not belligerent about it, but not in the least deluded. We don’t expose ourselves to the poison media and we don’t have long discussions about it. It works, and without his quiet presence I would have gone utterly and completely bonkers weeks ago.

61682 ▶▶ Nicky, replying to Howie59, #1281 of 1437 🔗

Totally agree. People don’t seem to want to listen to any alternative views and the only ones interviewed by bbc are those who are or will be compliant with the madness – after all ‘got to protect everyone haven’t we?’ From what? I find myself shouting (at the radio)!

61690 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Howie59, 5, #1282 of 1437 🔗

Mrs TJN is even more bloody minded about this than I am. We don’t have many friends left though …

61727 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Howie59, 3, #1283 of 1437 🔗

My husband is is sceptic like me but is afraid of not muzzling up on public transport even if he has legitimate reasons not to (like me) then proceeds to constantly touch and fiddle with said muzzle whilst we’re travelling. I told him that he was defeating the purpose of having to wear it and he might as well not bother but as he said he also wants to demonstrate how insane the whole thing is.

I just can’t be bothered saying anything anymore.

As for my family overseas, I’ve not said anything to them about this whole madness especially after seeing the horror of my two nieces muzzled up while playing and riding their bicycles.

I’ve decided that if those two little girls grow up with a myraid of physical and psychological problems then I’m not going to get involved. My sister and brother-in-law will have to clean out the mess that they have subjected their daughters to.

61733 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Howie59, 3, #1284 of 1437 🔗

My OH is a sceptic but is choosing to avoid any real discussion, she generally raises her eyebrows when I have a rant and she has been concerned for my mental well-being however if she dives in like me she knows she will suffer too.

She hasn’t been to the shops at all so hasn’t seen the zombies but if she did I’m sure it would upset her.

She has said she would wear a mask out of sufferance, for a quiet life.

When I’ve raise the possibility of this shit being for life and the potential for our wedding next year to be curtailed or having to wear masks for it (bit extreme but possible) or going abroad and having to wear a mask she shuts me down.

61763 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Howie59, 2, #1285 of 1437 🔗

Me too Howie, you are not alone.

61790 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Howie59, 2, #1286 of 1437 🔗

My family are neutrals but unfortunately coronamyth subscribers, we try to avoid conversations for quiet lives. They don’t realise how evil the BBC News is now.

61570 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 14, #1287 of 1437 🔗

Leah Butler-Smith is on This Morning tomorrow (Friday, 24th) at 10am. ITV1. This is the same woman who organised the anti mask protest last Sunday.

She is one to watch…

61577 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RDawg, 3, #1288 of 1437 🔗

I suspect she will be accused of being selfish.

61581 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to RDawg, 8, #1289 of 1437 🔗

Well that will be an ambush won’t it? If she tries to present facts they will be ignored and overriden. Who knows what they might show before the interview?…maybe something about an NHS worker who died from Covid at age 45, with plenty of lachrymose interviews with the deceased’s children.

61759 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to RDawg, 1, #1290 of 1437 🔗

She speaks very well. Impressive!!

61634 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 23, #1291 of 1437 🔗

This a day of notable deaths:

– Boris Johnson’s political career.

– The Conservative and Unionist Party.

– British liberty (finally expired after a long illness)

– The British economy.

– The credulity of voters who will now form the base for a real populist alternative.

61653 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 5, #1292 of 1437 🔗

‘Real populist alternative’, but who will be the Nigel who almost singlehandedly took Brexit from the ‘lunatic fringe’ to Almost There ?

61823 ▶▶ Julian, replying to OKUK, #1293 of 1437 🔗

I wish that the PM’s political career would finish, but I really don’t see why it would. They’ll ditch him before the next election if it’s looking dicey for them because of the economy, but why would he be threatened before then?

I’d love to see a small-c conservative party grow and push the Conservatives more in their direction, not sure about populism though. The PM is a populist. We want people of character and principle, who actually believe in freedom and other fundamental values. the family, the nation. Grown-ups, prepared to make tough choices and lead people rather than be governed by opinion polls.

61638 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, #1294 of 1437 🔗

All of you that listened to the Simon Dolan interview should go back and listen to the interview with Fiona Marie Flanagan that soon followed it.

61648 ▶▶ Nel, replying to richard riewer, #1295 of 1437 🔗

Do you have a link?

61652 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nel, #1296 of 1437 🔗

Rich allen show podomatic or youtube wednesday

61643 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 1, #1297 of 1437 🔗

Canada has the highest proportion of deaths from COVID-19 in long term care settings among 14 countries.

Which 14? Did not say.

61665 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to richard riewer, 7, #1298 of 1437 🔗

Yup, we’re number one! Not a proud moment for us here in Canada. Like almost all countries, we locked down the healthy and didn’t protect the vulnerable. Seems that public health officials everywhere didn’t study Pandemic 101 and we’ll all be paying the price for that indefinitely.

61647 Basics, 16, #1299 of 1437 🔗

Sky news press preview on half hourly repeat over night.
Just prior to the advert break 00:47, 01:47, 02:47 etc. Carole Malone sits there and says there is so much confusiin about masks and what makes things worst is it seems that masks are questionable in that the effectiveness is questionable. The presenter then steps in with 230odd scientists have written to WHO and we should list to them. Then they go to advert break. Carole Maline was shut up for saying what everyone knows.

Nothing shocking about it – just recording here that Sky news once again censors criticism of masks.

61651 Basics, replying to Basics, 21, #1300 of 1437 🔗

Scottish Givernment numbers: 23 July 2020
16 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 0.4% of newly tested individuals
0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive
2 people were in intensive care last night with confirmed COVID-19
287 people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19
11,570 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results
7 new suspected COVID-19 cases in adult care homes on 22 July

Pop 5.5 million.

Put these dodgy numbers next to the absolute mass suffering of human life and tell me we are not being exposed to a psychotic obession by mad ‘scientists’.

61709 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #1301 of 1437 🔗

In last 7 days 11570 daily tests -v- 22,969 people tested.

116 positive cases 116/11570 = 1.003%
116/22969 = 0.505%
116/74864 tests in last 7 days =0.155%

A case being a positive test. This data includes pillar 1 & 2 data.

Cumulative data 18500 positive / 33613 people tested 6%

61659 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1302 of 1437 🔗

‘Tsunami of cancer deaths’ warning as figures show almost 1000 excess deaths from killer disease
Some 950 extra deaths from cancer were recorded in Scotland during lockdown, new figures have shown.

The figures come as Scottish Labour warned of a “tsunami of cancer deaths”, calling for an urgent plan to be put in place as it was revealed almost 400,000 cancer screenings were cancelled due to coronavirus.

Almost 1,000 excess cancer deaths in Scotland’s homes during coronavirus crisis
There have been 950 excess cancer deaths at home during the Covid-19 pandemic, new figures show.

The weekly release from National Records of Scotland (NRS), tallies the number of suspected Covid-19 deaths and their location but also looks at how many excess deaths have occurred overall.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/coronavirus-scotland-cancer-deaths-surge-18652938

61661 ▶▶ Hugh, replying to Basics, #1303 of 1437 🔗

4 words: “mates in big pharma”. A sad day for this once sensible nation.

61668 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #1304 of 1437 🔗

So about 10,000 for England.

61670 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 14, #1305 of 1437 🔗

Murdered by Boris, Death Matt, and the NHS.

61822 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, #1306 of 1437 🔗

yes

61660 BJ, #1307 of 1437 🔗

Theme Tune
Theme Tune suggestion [inspired by Sun article]
“Let me take you by the hand and lead you through the streets of London
and I will certainly show you something that will change your lockdown mind

61663 Hugh, #1308 of 1437 🔗

one more thing, a local grocer complained to me some time ago (pre lockdown) that people run into his store and nick stuff and the police do diddly squat (or words to that effect) about it. Why should he have any respect for this latest government directive?

61683 karenovirus, 8, #1309 of 1437 🔗

Just visited my lovely local post Office convenience store (05.30 open all hours).
For the first time the early assistant was wearing a mask, she started to say that I should have one too until I showed the Disability Exempt Card, she was quite relieved not to have to carry on.
I took the time to explain the ‘none of your business’ nicely but added that the heavy duty mask supplied to her by her boss (with the round ventilaty thing) was said to be dangerous by the beeb pet doctor Jarvis.

61687 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 19, #1310 of 1437 🔗

In the departure lounge now. Have only seen two others not wearing masks and they had lanyards like us. No-one questioned us until we were passing through duty free. An assistant asked us to put on our masks. We showed her our lanyards, “Does that mean that you don’t have to wear masks?” she asked. We gave her some brief staff training.
Noticed lots of staff and passengers wearing their masks underneath their noses, plus lots of poor under 11s wearing them too.
Repeated messages on the tannoy about wearing masks. No mention of any understanding for people who can’t wear them. Discrimination and mask-shaming at its finest.

61692 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Margaret, 16, #1311 of 1437 🔗

Just seen two more unmuzzled with no lanyards or badges 👍

61708 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, 6, #1312 of 1437 🔗

“brief staff training” love it Margaret

61826 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to karenovirus, #1313 of 1437 🔗

And perhaps you should send a bill for consultancy work!

61820 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Margaret, #1314 of 1437 🔗

YOU GO GIRL!

61693 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 1, #1315 of 1437 🔗

Hi, this is probably already on here:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430

61728 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Moomin, #1316 of 1437 🔗

Over 11,000 now and the numbers are clicking round….

61698 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Moomin, #1318 of 1437 🔗

When they they see shop masks miserable failure they will put the onus onto the retailer in the same way that a Publican and their staff are individually responsible for not serving underage or drunk persons.

61713 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to karenovirus, 7, #1319 of 1437 🔗

They won’t. Once you get used to not wearing a mask while others around you lose their heads it’ll be fine. Shops in Scotland aren’t saying a word if you don’t wear a mask. The government know plenty people can’t wear a mask and there is no way of knowing who or why they can’t so it’s pointless. Just go about your day not wearing a mask and laugh to yourself when you see the people who are wearing masks.

61735 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, 6, #1320 of 1437 🔗

Indeed Biker, my new strategy is to shop maskless a little but often.

61736 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 7, #1321 of 1437 🔗

Hate to, but do. I completely agree with Mr Biker. He is right. With the addition that it’s our duty to spread the skeptic word to as many as possible. However you do it.

61695 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 7, #1322 of 1437 🔗

Hi, I had an interesting discussion with some church friends last night about meeting together. Apparently it’s ok for people to meet in groups of 30 now if following the social distancing nonsense. I need to get a quick answer to this so can someone please tell me what this is about and where the guidelines are or what the rules state about this? Thanks. On a personal note I can’t believe we are where we are on this 24.7 is a sad and tragic day in British history. I’ve even blogged about it, never really done blogs before but it’s helping to focus on more positive things!

61699 ▶▶ Ed Phillips, replying to Moomin, 9, #1323 of 1437 🔗

If you’re meeting in church then there are no restrictions. There are guidelines about social distancing. The restriction to 30 is for weddings for some reason.

The statutory instruments talk about restricting the number of households/bubbles to 2 up to 30 people. (I think.)

Ignore them and meet up.

61760 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Moomin, 3, #1324 of 1437 🔗

There is no obligation to follow social distancing, and never had been in law aside from in Wales on business property where it has been the law to enforce. Also as this article sets out the points of law which entitle you to meet in groups of up to 30 in indoor private spaces, such as a Church, or even as many you like given there is an exemption for “purposes of education or training”.

http://laworfiction.com/2020/07/bands-and-orchestras-can-gather-together/

61697 karenovirus, 6, #1325 of 1437 🔗

O6.15 cashpoint @ Tesco Express, no mask signage, inside are 3 working blokes in heavy duty hi-viz, no masks
but they will don hard hats when on site.

61701 Cambridge N, replying to Cambridge N, 20, #1326 of 1437 🔗

“I’m wearing a cloth mask to stop a virus.*”

“I’m installing a chain link fence to stop mosquitos.”

(*A covid virus is about a 1000th of the diameter of a hair, ie 15 – 300 nanometres across. Paper, cloth, anything short of full bioprotection kit with independent air supply won’t stop it.)

comment image

61866 ▶▶ Eyquem, replying to Cambridge N, #1327 of 1437 🔗

The trouble with this argument is that it will be immediately countered by those who say that the value of masks lies in preventing transmission not of the virus itself but rather the much larger respiratory droplets that the virus uses as a delivery mechanism. And I believe there is some lab-based evidence to back up this claim, even in relation to non-medical coverings. There is, however, zero lab-based evidence to show that non-medical facemasks reduce the transmission of the smaller aerosolised particulates that asymptomatic carriers would commonly exhale. And being as how we are constantly being reminded that the purpose of this policy is to prevent asymptomatic people from unknowingly infecting the vulnerable, I think this is probably the better argument to employ.

61957 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Cambridge N, #1328 of 1437 🔗

Indeed.Wearing a cloth mask is a statement that you don’t grasp basic physics and maths.
And those who engage in pseudo-scientific trials to prove their effectiveness or believe in those trials results are like flat earthers trying to prove their case with elaborate mathematics.

61710 profund chap, #1329 of 1437 🔗

From reading articles and comments in middle class papers it seems like the population of bedwetters who have been scared into mask submission are now collectively exciting themselves over the prospect of a vaccine.

Regarding children may I ask who in their right mind would vaccinate a child given covid is of minimal risk to them and they are proven to be a break in the infection chain.

I am not anti vaccination but in this case I do not understand the argument to vaccinate a child at the individual level.

61711 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 14, #1330 of 1437 🔗

07.15 into the largish Co Op, 5 early birds all masked, 3rd in the till queue, no-one looked at me, familiar assistant gave the slightest smile, no lanyard.
Sat outside on a wall, Mcoll newsagent 4 young men went in separately unmasked joshed with newly masked assistant (pink sticky out thing, made him look like puffin).
Lady I know to be diabetic came out of the Co-Op, ripped her mask off and sat beside me exhausted, I told her she is exempt, she’s more worried about the fine.

61812 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1331 of 1437 🔗

The resistance!

61712 Biker, replying to Biker, 27, #1332 of 1437 🔗

Broke down on my Motorcycle last night and had to phone the AA. The dude that came out to have a look at the bike was a lockdown skeptic and we had a nice chat about the whole disgusting situation regarding masks and how he, like almost every other person doesn’t know anyone who’s had it.. They then sent the tow truck out. The young dude driving, looked about 25 was wearing a mask and i had to wear my helmet in the truck while he drove the bike and i home. I didn’t object because i was in the middle of nowhere and i wanted to get home but it was ridiculous. Still, now my English friends have to run the gauntlet of not wearing a mask you’ll get to feel the same kind of revulsion for those that insist we give up our lives in fear of a virus 99.9% of people will not know anyone who’s had it. I know people say there is a virus but i’m afraid i just don’t believe it. The whole situation is one giant lie. The people dying from the virus are dying from whatever they had wrong with them or old age and they just happen to catch the flu at the same time. The virus is the flu and nothing more. Time to rise up and be counted by not wearing a mask. It’s hardly storming the beaches at Normandy but you fight the battle in front of you.

61723 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Biker, 9, #1333 of 1437 🔗

They rebranded winter flu, that’s why there are no flu stats. It’s all about vaccinations.

61729 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lili, 7, #1334 of 1437 🔗

Defo, give it a brand and a few #’s and the plebs have fallen hook line and sinker.

I certainly have a feeling in my gut that we have all had our pants pulled down and bent over. There are bigger things at play.

61805 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lili, #1335 of 1437 🔗

I’m not so sure about that, but they were certainly including flu deaths in with CV19, among other illnesses.

61803 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Biker, 1, #1336 of 1437 🔗

I do know of someone who died from the WuFlu back in May. He’d had bronchitis and was treated in hospital with intravenous antibiotics, which is where and when he caught the wuflu. He d recovered enough from the bronchitis to be discharged home, but readmitted not long afterwards with the virus, and he died.
He’s the only one I know of personally.

61714 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 7, #1337 of 1437 🔗

Just heard on the radio vaccine for over 50’s and under 12’s.

Average age of death is 80 and no children have died.

Still, kill off the over 50’s and sterilise the children.

61716 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to stefarm, 2, #1338 of 1437 🔗

Was that not flu vaccine?

61717 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Sarigan, 3, #1339 of 1437 🔗

yes – it was flu – BBC breakfast had minister on talking about it. I recall thinking – oh i qualify for a free one … but i aint having one ..

61816 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Sarigan, #1340 of 1437 🔗

Supposedly – but who would trust this government,or PHE, not to include rushed out and largely untested covid vaccine!?

61718 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to stefarm, 6, #1341 of 1437 🔗

Yes, Heath Minister Helen Whately, said this on Sky. Simple answer Foreign Office! I’m over 50 and will not be having the Flu vaccine – they are collecting a list, and when you are at the doctor, you will be ‘coaxed’ into getting the coronavirus vaccine too. Children under 12 need parental approval – NO

61789 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1342 of 1437 🔗

MOH and I are both over 60. Our GP practice tried to persuade MOH to have a flu jab last autumn. Neither of us had one. Neither of us had the flu, and haven’t done in decades. We did get ordinary colds, and I had the weird virus in March which left a very long-lasting cough – jury is still out on whether it was CV19 or not. It didn’t kill me, or make me very ill either. MOH felt under the weather for four days, and that was it.
We won’t be having a flu jab this winter any more than we did last year.

61817 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1343 of 1437 🔗

Does ANYONE ever get to be ‘at the doctor’ now?

61738 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, #1344 of 1437 🔗

Just heard again flu vaccine, sorry for misleading

61740 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to stefarm, 4, #1345 of 1437 🔗

I’ve never had the flu vaccine and don’t intend to.

61747 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella Donna, #1346 of 1437 🔗

Me neither though they invite me to every year; this year my GP Practice will be providing them in a building that is actually the cattle market but they don’t call it that.

61751 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1347 of 1437 🔗

I’ve never been offered one but I’ve never had the flu anyway. Ever since my mother religiously had the flu jab which resulted in her being hospitalised every winter for breathing difficulties I’ve been anti flu jab.

61761 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1348 of 1437 🔗

Does it have ‘showers’?

61749 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 2, #1349 of 1437 🔗

Its a route to covid vaccine steven. Don’t think it isn’t. About vaccine uptake. Also about doing your duty and tsking a hit/vaccine.

Wonder why they are not celebrating a large increase in blood donors since everyone so keep to do their duty.

61743 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 3, #1350 of 1437 🔗

Flu jab is another item on their list to get the covid in your arm, same as masks. Doesn’t that sound crazy. Same symptoms obviously. Getting the jab will get peoole through the vaccine process to see how simple it is.

I just wonder if the flu jab this year will increase instances of flu or not. Both are handy outcomes in terms of paving the way to corona vaccine.

Corona vaccines that have never existed before. Amazing drug companies never made a vaccine for corona before if they can now all of a sudden.

61715 mjr, replying to mjr, 26, #1351 of 1437 🔗

So BBC Breakfast first thing
Naga Muchbullshitty and Charlie Disdainfullook

  1. Newspaper clip – Mirror – everyone wants to wear masks
  2. MP that looks like a weasel . wear wear masks – shame non wearers
  3. Chief constable – wear masks – shame people
  4. Interview people who are avid mask wearers
  5. Then a nice little feature about about a puppy saving a baby seal and a cricket team that won first match for 5 years
  6. Then shopkeepers – wear masks (of course they are still oblivious to the fact that they will go bust
  7. More propaganda
  8. Naga and Charlie look condencending, smug and continue to talk to us like we are naughty 5 year olds
  9. Then flu jabs for everyone

Distopia or what!!!

61721 ▶▶ Lili, replying to mjr, 11, #1352 of 1437 🔗

Pure evil.

61730 ▶▶ Basics, replying to mjr, 3, #1353 of 1437 🔗

Charlie was an excellent news presenter for Channel Five. He was an engine of the channel, making the Five news punch way above it’s weight. BBC poached him, literally. His soul must look something like an unwrapped oxo cube only smaller and less good.

Nagga never has been good, I don’t know whether she gets the deeper picture of what her life is or not.

At least that was my assessment four or five years ago. I cannot look any longer. Breakfast feels like an Am-Dram rehersal and has done for years – right down to the large brown cardbord clothes box where they jumble through and find an outfit each morning.

61732 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 8, #1354 of 1437 🔗

Nagga got the job because of what she looks like, nothing more. Like almost all of those on the BBC they have to be lefty gender fluid transvisionary ethnic minority trade union activity religion accepting dumb mother fuckers who’d grass their own parents to the Stazi in the hope people will think them virtuous.

61744 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, #1355 of 1437 🔗

Pob?

61731 ▶▶ matt, replying to mjr, 3, #1356 of 1437 🔗

Day 9 of not watching Breakfast in the morning. Mostly, I feel _much_ better.

61748 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to matt, 1, #1357 of 1437 🔗

if you’re able to stop watching altogether you will feel _much_ _much_ better!

61755 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to anon, #1358 of 1437 🔗

Oh, I have. There has been no live television in this house for over a week now.

61804 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, #1359 of 1437 🔗

I haven’t watched TV for the last 20 years, I used to selectively watch a few things and the CH4 “news” at 7:00 most days but since March I haven’t watched it at all or listened to the radio either. It’s POISON.

61814 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Two-Six, #1360 of 1437 🔗

I just watch films now, usually after saving with USB Record!

61827 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to IanE, #1361 of 1437 🔗

get an Amazon firestick.. then download app called “downloader” then an App called “Cinema”.. All the new films and box sets for free

62051 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to matt, #1362 of 1437 🔗

Brilliant, matt ! Well done.

(Your wife may find you loads of little jobs for you to do to fill the gaps … 🙁 ).

61791 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to matt, 1, #1363 of 1437 🔗

Actually I am the same from stopping reading the guardian which I now loath

61799 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to wendy, #1364 of 1437 🔗

One day at a time Wendy, Every day in Every Way You Are Getting Better and Better!

61798 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, #1365 of 1437 🔗

One day at a time Matt, Every day in every way you are getting better and better.

61745 ▶▶ anon, replying to mjr, #1366 of 1437 🔗

were the pedo-b-c goons wearing muzzles sorry ‘face coverings?’

61779 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to mjr, #1367 of 1437 🔗

That’s why I stopped watching BBC Breakfast years ago. It’s been talking to the general population as if they’re all 10 year-olds for decades.
There used to be numerous complaints to the BBC about “dumbing down,” which the BBC took absolutely no notice of, of course. Now everyone has got used to it, and that’s what they expect. And switch off.

61795 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mjr, 1, #1368 of 1437 🔗

Been said before but its worth typing again. The BBC are EVIL LYING BASTARDS.

61800 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Two-Six, #1369 of 1437 🔗

And that is their good side!

61725 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1370 of 1437 🔗

Regarding the Flu jabs for kids – proposal is for under 12s. Why not those between 12 and 18, and students – is it because they are not going to be back in school/university in September I wonder?

61757 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1371 of 1437 🔗

Teen years are a battle ground for parental control. The psy-op of making any jab routine doesn’t need hassle associating, this must be a smooth, easy operation. That how my lockedup brain sees it. I appreciate I’m cynical.

61767 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 3, #1372 of 1437 🔗

Not cynical but rational. None of this is being done for ‘our’ benefit. I think we both agree from the thread a bit earlier, they are collecting a list of candidates for the corona vaccine who have been ‘conditioned’ to accept it. The only other explanation is that the corona vaccine will not arrive this year, if at all, and they are covering their arses/diverting/hedging their bets with the Flu mega vaccine programme. I have been watching the AstraZeneca share price closely since Monday. Early days, but to me the stock is signaling no corona vaccine imminently. The Hon Kate Bingham also hinted that in her interview the other day. Suspect side effects are emerging as an issue in extended cohort trials?

61776 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1373 of 1437 🔗

Excellent analysis as always. Expect to see signs of failing pressure upon the faces of the non politucals involved in getting Covid vaccines to market then perhaps.kate is clearly employed to front the show so has a mask that can cover emotion. Others will let it show.

Devi Sirdah was on skynews late lastnight telling uk why masks are good I believe.

61801 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 1, #1374 of 1437 🔗

Yes, she was. I cannot understand why nobody ever challenges her – she does not present facts with scientific rigour, perhaps because she is not a doctor or even a scientist!

61830 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1375 of 1437 🔗

A true talking head.

The tv producers have her number – I wonder who gave it to them and who endorsed her. Surely not as simple as a government briefing crib sheet handout – experts to call.

She has a young student/graduate group of supporters. But in the adult realm she comes off so fucking weak without any gravitas or radical brilliance. She’s boring actually, tedious. And dangerous of course.

61769 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1376 of 1437 🔗

30 million, UKs biggest ever flu vaccine drive as part of a series of measures to “protect the NHS” during the coming winter when Covid is expected to increase pressure on the health service.

61797 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Basics, 3, #1377 of 1437 🔗

I normally have it as I am slightly immuno-compromised, but this year I shan’t because I no longer trust ‘our’ government. Would it also include (or even be replaced by) a hastily rushed-out covid vaccine of dubious efficacy and untested side effects? No thanks!

61819 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Basics, 3, #1378 of 1437 🔗

I preferred the old days .. when the NHS protected us

61837 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1379 of 1437 🔗

Hearing Boris jabber on undrr some bunting on the stump. Masks for flu is coming… he’s not saying it. I am.

61734 Harold Hairbrush, 1, #1380 of 1437 🔗

Jobsworths at our local shopping centre policing the entrances for nappy compliance.

Avoided it, obviously.

Unbelievable. Welcome to the UK in 2020.

61739 Bart Simpson, 15, #1381 of 1437 🔗

Last Monday, a friend and I had a rather unpleasant experience in a church and I have written this letter to the Bishop of London to complain:

The Rt Revd and Rt Hon Dame Sarah Mullally DBE
Bishop of London
The Old Deanery
Dean’s Court
London
EC4V 5AA

Dear Bishop,

I am writing to you to complain about a member of staff at St Stephen Walbrook in the City of London. A friend and I who were walking along the City on 21 July (this was around noon time) spotted that the church was open and decided to go inside to have a look around. The church was empty apart from us two.

While we were looking around, a man called us over to sanitise our hands and leave our details for the NHS test and trace. He spoke to us in a rude and condescending manner and even accused my friend of being rude after she told him that we refused to leave our details.

Under government guidelines, people have the right to decline to give their details for the purposes of NHS test and trace especially in light of recent news after the Department of Health and Social Care has admitted that the scheme is in violation of GDPR and privacy legislation. Additionally, your test and trace document is a letter lying on a table in an open church – you are supposed to ensure that details cannot be viewed (or photographed) by others. You also provide no details as to how this data is going to be kept safe or how and when it is going to be disposed of.

Whilst I understand the need to comply with certain protocols in order to reopen the church, I also do not appreciate being treated and spoken to in an ill-mannered and patronising manner by a member of staff that is representing the Church of England.

I am bringing this complaint to your attention because what my friend and I have encountered does not reflect well on your organisation and runs contrary to the Christian message of openness.

Thank you and I look forward to your response.


Yours faithfully,
etc, etc….

61741 Jonathan Castro, 9, #1382 of 1437 🔗

About half wearing and half not wearing in local garage just now.
One shop down, three more to go.

61742 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, 6, #1383 of 1437 🔗

Currant Bun this morning. Lockdowns were a waste of time. Who’d have thunk it?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12210173/coronavirus-lockdown-no-difference/

61771 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to PoshPanic, 1, #1384 of 1437 🔗

Unfortunately, the people commenting don’t agree. There were two making snide remarks that the study was signed off by Trump. ???

61778 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Lms23, 3, #1385 of 1437 🔗

Cognitive dissonance is hard for some folk. They have after all had 24/7 corona porn from the BBC/ Sky and been told by the ” scientists ” that lockdown and masks are necessary to protect them rather than just silly ideas for the simple minded.

61792 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Peter Thompson, #1386 of 1437 🔗

I was talking to a lady I know who works in a charity shop yesterday about the Rona Scam, I was getting onto the Gates Connection and compulsory vaccinations being the main goal of all this and this other lady with a mask in her late 60’s and quite posh said to me in a haughty voice, “Oh what nonsense!, YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS AREN’T YOU!

For flips sake…

61807 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1387 of 1437 🔗

Had the same lady berate me in an art gallery once for daring to suggest that the people of St Kilda perhaps didn’t need to be ‘rescued’ into civilisation. Look at civilisation now and I know I had a point!

61950 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1388 of 1437 🔗

Given any mention of Gates or compulsory vaccination is purely theoretical, it’s certainly best to steer clear of going down that path, you will sound like a loon.

Whereas it’s easy to prove masks, lockdown etc are bollocks and a scam because logic and actual real world data back that up. To start trying to decipher the why is pointless when the goal is simply to make people wake up to the lies.

61782 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Lms23, #1389 of 1437 🔗

That figures!!

61783 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Lms23, 3, #1390 of 1437 🔗

Yeah saw that, absolute crap. 1 comment along the lines of 1% mortality rate that’s lots of dead people…winge winge…lockdown, wear a mask bollocks…

99% survival rate sounds better.

I’m sure it’s some algorithm or 77th brigade pleb writing it but disgusting propaganda.

61802 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #1391 of 1437 🔗

Genuine question/thought. Are 77 Brigade able to get non mask positive stories in the press in order to then shred in the comments? Seems to me that would be a realistic propganda trick with a compliant, colluding media.

I don’t read comments on stories often, it might be worth noticing any signs about each article and comments being a show.

61806 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Lms23, 1, #1392 of 1437 🔗

Look at most liked, however, and you will see comments more like what we believe here!

62024 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to PoshPanic, #1393 of 1437 🔗

Interestingly, I read the story and there was a survey at the bottom: Do you think lockdown saved lives? Three options (yes, no, not sure). So I clicked “no” and to my suprise, I think it was 34% no, 53% yes … I would have thought the margin would have been much, much wider?

61746 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 23, #1394 of 1437 🔗

About a year ago I went to talk given on resistance to Nazism in Germany. The speaker, who was German, began by showing a photograph of what could have been a football crowd. Every person in the crowd was giving a Nazi salute. A sea of arms outstretched. The speaker asked was there anything noticeable? She had to point it out. There was one chap in the crowd who was not giving the Nazi salute. She asked us to imagine the courage he must have had to do that. I’m now haunted by the memory of that photo. Whether it is the right or wrong thing to do we today in Blighty everyone is being dragooned in to doing the same thing. That’s the worrying thing.

61754 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Ned of the Hills, 10, #1395 of 1437 🔗

The best analogy is those men and women who in the First World War opposed the military folly which sent millions of men to fight each other over the possession of 60 yards of no mans land in eastern France. For their oppostion they were shamed by being given white feathers in the street and then were jailed. Some were shot after being dragooned into the armed forces.
Now a century later we can see this war was a catastrophe for western civilisation and destroyed victor and vanquished. I am a conscientous objector in 2020 to a similar folly .

As Martin Luther said ” I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other “

61764 ▶▶ jurassic.notion, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1396 of 1437 🔗

I went to school in Austria (mid 1990s to early 00s). Almost every year a war survivor visited us to talk about his memories of the 2nd World War and Nazism. I remember, the than teenagers asking “but how could this happen? Why did nobody stand up? Why was there no resistance to the obviously wrong?”. I guess, those who asked are happily wearing muzzles now.

62063 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ned of the Hills, -1, #1397 of 1437 🔗

She asked us to imagine the courage he must have had to do that.

Or the paralysed right arm …

61750 bobdobbs0507, 1, #1398 of 1437 🔗

My better half has just got back from Morrisons. Security guard stated the policy, she declined to don a mask and went about her business. Some funny looks, but no grief. Don’t let the b*stards grind you down.

61752 Clive, 1, #1399 of 1437 🔗

Opening words from the BBC website this evening (23/07/20):

“There is now almost no excuse for not wearing a face mask while out shopping in England – covering your face is as essential as remembering your cash or bank card.”

Not the government – the BBC. But is there a difference?

“excuse” is very telling: it puts us in the role of misbehaving children who really should know better.

“reason” would be a better word, but that would put us in the role of thinking adults capable of presenting sensible arguments.

Government proposes – BBC disposes. This is the most shockingly open expression of the BBC’s totalitarian instincts I’ve yet seen. This is no longer a free country.

61753 DentArthurDent, #1400 of 1437 🔗

Did my first click and collect shop yesterday as a trial run for mask avoidance. Worked well so I won’t be going into a physical shop now until the mask policy is revoked.

But I have this nagging feeling that I’m doing exactly what TPTB want. Do they actually want to destroy our high streets and get everyone shopping online cashlessly?

Is this another example of “never waste he opportunities which a good crisis creates?

And cui bono? Big global online companies? Housing developers?

You don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to start wondering what’s really going on here.

61756 Sam Vimes, 7, #1401 of 1437 🔗

Report on The Last Day of Freedom.

Got the bus to town, yesterday afternoon. Got on, bare faced, just said hello to driver and pinged my e-ticket thing. Driver said nowt. Sometimes they are just grumpy, but I wondered if he just didn’t want to engage? Hard to tell, as he was muzzled (legally unnecessary). Sat down, two others on bus with muzzles, nowt said.

Into Wetherspoons, to meet my mate, usual relaxed affair, apart from weird queueing arrangement. New signs since last week, asking you to scan QR code or fill in T and T form. Keyword here is “asking” – no pressure.

Two points about muzzles. First, several staff wearing them, but it’s their choice. However, at least one of them was wearing a mask, fiddling with it, up/down etc. – and bringing food out ! This will be the same in many if not all food service joints.

So, normal food hygeine goes out the window (with cancer, heart disease et al) “due to covid”. Wonder if they’d be happy if I had my hand down my pants before paying?

Second, ran into a friend I see occasionally, we worked together when I was about 20. She’s 74, I asked her how she feels about it all, is she scared? She said not scared, more cautious, but she wants her life back.

She’s asthmatic and has tried a mask, but hated it. Thing is, she was not aware that she is exempt on at least two counts . We rammed that home to her. This is what the bastards rely on, headlines just say “Masks compulsory”, and that’s all the non sceptics see.

Actually, a third mask item; watched a guy walk in from the fresh air with muzzle on, then take it off indoors…

Ah, well Vive La Resistance.

61762 Fiat, replying to Fiat, 4, #1402 of 1437 🔗

Peter Hitchens on Any Questions tonight. 8pm Radio 4.

61774 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Fiat, 2, #1403 of 1437 🔗

plus James Cleverley and Margaret Beckett who are both MPs with some personality and independent thought .and an economist, Linda Yueh.. Should be a good listen ..

61784 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mjr, 4, #1404 of 1437 🔗

Margret Becket is a massive twat.

61786 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Two-Six, #1405 of 1437 🔗

Seconded!

61793 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1406 of 1437 🔗

And Cleverley is anything but ‘clever’!. Linda Yueh is usually very impressive (an economist and lawyer), but not sure what her views are on lockdown/masks

61796 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1407 of 1437 🔗

She should be good for the China question that is sure to be raised

61794 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Two-Six, #1408 of 1437 🔗

dont disagree…. but at least not a generic automaton… Could be so much worse. could be Dawn Butler

61815 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Fiat, 1, #1409 of 1437 🔗

Thanks. He has been rock solid from the start.

61768 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 4, #1410 of 1437 🔗

Does anyone else think this might be a massive plot to make people so angry, so disillusioned that we will be able to ignore Brexit being cancelled as long as we get back to real life?
If only…..!!

61780 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #1411 of 1437 🔗

This is one of the desirable outcomes for the architect of The Corona Project, I am sure.

61785 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Two-Six, 2, #1412 of 1437 🔗

Certainly NOT desirable for any independent-minded citizens though.

61787 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to IanE, 1, #1413 of 1437 🔗

Who cares about them?

61788 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 3, #1414 of 1437 🔗

Me!

61813 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #1415 of 1437 🔗

No, I don’t think so. There may be some organisations with that agenda (the BBC, opposition parties) but I don’t see any sign of the government relenting on Brexit. They want to get re-elected, and I think the PM quite fancies the job of being PM of an “independent” Britain.

I voted Leave, but sovereignty is not worth much if the people give up their freedom so easily.

61832 ▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Julian, #1416 of 1437 🔗

I jest….I genuinely wish this was the case, heck I may even give up on Brexit for life to return to normal, bickering politics about EU matters is so much better than entire life ruining politics!

61848 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1417 of 1437 🔗

That had crossed my mind a few times recently, provides a reason of sorts.

Spooks Series 5. The establishment launch anti-democratic coup d’etat starting with an enabling act (cf Covid Act March).
Whipped up by internet bloggers the brave population descend upon London…

61770 Cbird, 9, #1418 of 1437 🔗

Email from Pets at Home today:

“We’re here for all the things you need to care for your VIP. We’ve also made it safe and easy to shop in our stores, and visit our grooming salons or vet practices.

In response to local guidance from tomorrow, 24th July, a face covering must now be worn when visiting us.”

No mention of exemptions. Have emailed the COO (peterdirect@petsathome.co.uk) telling him I will no longer be shopping there

61772 Olive, replying to Olive, 27, #1419 of 1437 🔗

In February we were looking to buy a new house, growing a media business, could afford private education for a child who was struggling, had a stable and loving family etc etc. Fast forward now to a morning in July spent trying to have a conversation with an engineer, through hot and incoherent masks, as I take my car for a service/MOT we can no longer afford, at a garage that cannot offer me a drink of water, or my son the toilet. I then drive the hire car past the house we can no longer afford to buy, past the school we can no longer afford to attend, and go back to our own house where my husband has been trying to work from – pointlessly as no clients as our business flounders. Husband not at home as consoling two brothers that have been made redundant this week. Went to have a short walk and get a takeaway coffee as an excuse to get out house (where three kids remain fighting in one room as their holiday clubs were all cancelled on Monday due to government guidelines or whatever), but realised couldn’t as had left my facemask in hire car.
I realise, and am thankful, of all my good fortune to date, but to see all we have worked for, and others like us, just ripped from our hands by a conservative government…… and then to have this utterly ludicrous and soul sapping facemask decree, and still no firm commitment on schools in September……please someone tell me that there is something worth staying in Britain for before we all tip over the edge of sanity? How can anyone ever justify this excruciating officialdom and absurdity? Oh, and yesterday got an earful from an earnest young woman wearing a badge that stated ‘Don’t be selfish, wear a facemask’. I wanted to tell her that my family – like many families every day – keep giving (selflessly) our livelihoods, our education, and our joy in life all in the name of ‘keeping safe’.

61775 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Olive, 5, #1420 of 1437 🔗

I can hear the rattling of pitch-forks.

61857 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1421 of 1437 🔗

This morning when asked if masked will be here for 18 months to 2 years Boris did not bat an eyelid, and walked all over be did not say no.

How can they not expect pitchforks?

61781 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Olive, 5, #1422 of 1437 🔗

Well, I would say leave if you can; but it is not clear where one could go that is not also turning into a totalitarian state. My sympathies of course for what this dreadful government has done to you and, albeit not as bad (yet) for many, for the rest of us.

61810 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Olive, 2, #1423 of 1437 🔗

Hang in there. Lot’s of us feeling your pain. Maybe take the kids for a park/beach/hill trip and try to live as much of the old normal as possible.
Anybody shaming someone, when they nothing of their background, or what they’re going through, deserves a place in hell.

61992 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Olive, #1424 of 1437 🔗

Olive. Your post make me swallow hard. I am so sorry to hear – there are others everywhere that have found their plans and expectations have been simply cancelled through no fault of their own. One morning/one day you will find a resolve to take another path and you will know when that moment arrives. We’re all wondering here what to do collectively to make a noise loud enough for those who have done these dreadful misguided things to everyone to look up and rethink?

61777 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #1425 of 1437 🔗

I would vote for this:

If limited uptake of the wonder drug keeps the anti-rationalists awake at night, an obvious solution springs to mind. On that might go some way towards assuaging the concerns of the people who like to make their own minds up.

Once the vaccine is ready, a truly independent health body with absolutely no financial ties to any pharmaceutical corporation, no government backing nor government contracts, should undertake an independent scientific evaluation of the vaccine. They could be given temporary authority to select a random sample of the vaccine, from batches they select without warning, and test it’s safety and efficacy in a large cohort, double blind, placebo randomised control trial.

That large cohort will be drawn from all member of parliament, the US congress and the EU commission, all policy makers and lobbyists who advocate “anti-vaxxer” censorship, all boards of pharmaceutical corporations, all BMGF members, all GAVI members, and all World Health Organisation bureaucrats. It will also include all members of the mainstream media, like Dominic, who think anyone who questions vaccines is an anti-vaxxer, and any other anti-rationalist who has argued for censorship of scientific opinion.

Any hint of any involvement or influence from anyone with either a commercial or policy interests in vaccines, will render the study null and void and the COVID 19 vaccine will be deemed to be unproven and unsafe. Once the vaccine injury rate has been independently assessed another, separate, independent panel, again with no links to any pharmaceutical corporations, government or policy makers, will then decide if the benefits outweigh the risks.

Only following approval via this process, will the vaccine be offered to the people. There will be no suggestion or demand for compulsory vaccination because that would contravene Article 6 of the United Nations Declaration on Bioethics and Human Rights

Excerpt from an excellent piece – https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/23/we-must-inoculate-ourselves-against-the-crazy-anti-rationalists/

62074 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sarigan, #1426 of 1437 🔗

Excellent. 🙂

61808 John Ballard, 6, #1427 of 1437 🔗

A bit out of touch this week, so probably everyone has already seen this and discussed, but ONS stats 10th July week, deaths 8690 – 5 year average 9250….4th week running its down on average. Deaths that week under 64 = 35 !!! Probably most with underlying issues and not really covid, so 35 from a 50 Million population. You have more chance of choking to death on your mask than dying of covid. But mask up, be a sheep, don’t spread misinformation, you don’t understand the harm it causes !!! Have to laugh at the Government radio add’s…..don’t share information, no listen to them and the BBC and scare yourself to death every day, destroy the economy, make a million unemployed, build up a huge bank of future mental health issues….ping !!!
Looking forward to mask day…..but …..not as not shopping until the beer stocks run dry !!!

61809 mjr, 3, #1428 of 1437 🔗

Couple of days ago I posted email i had sent to B&M about what they would do today. Reponse i had on Wednesday was We are awaiting government guidelines to be issued and all stores will adhere to them” .
I responded “Haven’t government guidelines already been issued? Aren’t the guidelines that masks should be worn in shops unless person is exempted.?
Given that it is Wednesday already, I am surprised that this is still uncertain, although the assistant i spoke to yesterday seemed to know what would happen.
Heard nothing back so today sent this.
“You have not had the courtesy to follow up your email of 22nd in which you said you don’t know what is happening or to respond to my further comments so I still do not what your actions will be.
I will not wear a mask as I have a valid reason as permitted under the exemption guidelines published by the government. If questioned by your staff I will say I am exempted. I will not answer any request for further clarification as that is personal information. What will happen if I try to enter your stores?

Will let you know if i get a response..

61825 PoshPanic, replying to PoshPanic, #1429 of 1437 🔗

Does anybody know of any studies that have been done re sepsis deaths, during this period? I’ve searched, but can’t seem to find any mention and don’t recall seeing any articles mentioning it. It was one of the big killers in hospitals particularly, with some failings in some hospitals. But the ONS figures don’t cover it and all searches just show previous FOI requests.

I’m just curious as to why there has been little discussion of it, in comparison to bat flu?

A couple of articles from Jan..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51138859

https://news.sky.com/story/sepsis-is-bigger-killer-than-three-types-of-cancer-combined-study-11910168

61843 ▶▶ Lili, replying to PoshPanic, 3, #1430 of 1437 🔗

Hurrah! Empty car park in the supermarket near me this morning.

61873 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lili, #1431 of 1437 🔗

WOOOOO!

61909 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to PoshPanic, #1432 of 1437 🔗

Good question. Covid and Sepsis both share cytokine storm as the thing that could kill you.

Sepsis can easily be treated by using the Marik Protocol (hydrocortisone, intravenous Vitamin C and intravenous thiamin/vitamin B1 ) but it is not used by the NHS. If my child/family member died or was maimed by Sepsis I would be extremely upset. This protocol is cheap and could save many lives.

Hydrocortisone, Vitamin C, and Thiamine for the Treatment of Severe Sepsis and Septic Shock
https://journal.chestnet.org/article/S0012-3692(16)62564-3/fulltext

http://nwcriticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/The-Marik-Protocol-final-2017.pdf

61829 mjr, #1433 of 1437 🔗

New Page for today has arrived !!!! All move over please
https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/24/latest-news-83/#comments

61834 Sam Vimes, 1, #1434 of 1437 🔗

Lockdown Sceptics: Telling the bare-faced truth!

61851 Basics, replying to Basics, 3, #1435 of 1437 🔗

Retail has surged to pre-covid levels in June. Not me saying that. Adam Boulton brings me that ‘news’. I don’t believe you Adam even if ONS are giving you the data.

61856 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Basics, 1, #1436 of 1437 🔗

That was before the fascist mask diktat.

61911 JohnB, #1437 of 1437 🔗

There is now a 24th July thread. 🙂

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