2020-07-26

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/26/latest-news-85/
Published2020-07-26T10:23:23
Last updated2020-07-26T13:48:09
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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64497 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 32, #1 of 1094 🔗

https://www.abc.es/espana/aragon/abci-zaragoza-monta-pabellon-para-confinar-casos-leves-covid-ante-avalancha-contagios-202007241653_noticia.html#vca=amp-rrss-inducido&vmc=abc-es&vso=tw&vli=noticia.video
Concentration camps for asymptomatic. Zaragoza in Spain opens on Monday a detention centre where up to 100 asymptomatic or very mild illness could be contained.
https://www.abc.es/sociedad/abci-hombre-permanece-aislado-italia-tras-17-test-positivos-covid-19-202007231415_noticia.html

Poor Italian isolated since mid April after having 17 PCR tests positive for Sars-Cov 2.
If this is not madness please tell me what is.

64504 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to swedenborg, 22, #2 of 1094 🔗

It’s not madness if it is deliberate tyranny. Why is this so difficult to comprehend ?

64512 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to JohnB, 51, #3 of 1094 🔗

I think we need to bang that about a bit more. I’m pretty certain that most people cannot believe we are being subjugated by tyrants since the general population are aiding that tyranny and people trying to stand up to it are considered enemies of reason. This is why I am going slightly mad. I have friends (well friends no more) proudly presenting their profile pictures now wearing face masks. It’s considered benevolent. We that resist are malevolent.

64529 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Bella, 14, #4 of 1094 🔗

They have us tied up in knots, don’t they, because anyone not falling into line with this madness is an evil, virus spreading murderer.

65102 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Bella, 1, #5 of 1094 🔗

We just follow the science.
They believe in witchcraft, as do the governments that they enjoy obeying.

64891 ▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to JohnB, 1, #6 of 1094 🔗

One has to recognise the self-fulfilling symmetry of the tactics. Create uncertainty which alarms the public then point to that alarm and say, “see, we told you the virus was bad news”. Stir ad infinitum.

64532 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 13, #7 of 1094 🔗

Here come the camps. For asymptomatics? Or sceptics?

64537 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 15, #8 of 1094 🔗

I’ve always had a feeling, right from the start of all this, that this is why the ‘Nightingale’ hospitals were erected. Remember that it was the military that built them.

64541 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mr Dee, 17, #9 of 1094 🔗

Naaa, you’d need a special law to allow you to detain…. Oops.

64839 ▶▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to Sam Vimes, #10 of 1094 🔗

There is one.

64544 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 8, #11 of 1094 🔗

Yes, but the government always relies on the military to get them out of the smelly brown stuff. It was the same over the Foot And Mouth. Always followed by further defence cuts.

64547 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #12 of 1094 🔗

Do you have any feeling where veteran groups are on this masking of humanity? Each personel is clearly trained in biowarfare so may have a higher than average understanding of this lunacy.

64560 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 6, #13 of 1094 🔗

Probably got the same split as the rest of us if I’m honest. The older they are, the more sceptical. It depends on how many of them still trust governments of course…

64639 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #14 of 1094 🔗

Thanks. It’s one aspect I’ll listen out for.

64958 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Basics, 3, #15 of 1094 🔗

I don’t know about veteran groups, but I would consel all politicians to think very, very hard indeed before attempting any “lockdown” in the prison sense of the word. Remember Solzhenitsyn.
“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?… The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

64565 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nick Rose, 14, #16 of 1094 🔗

Absolutely correct. Farmers were too late to stop their herds be shot with army rifles (extremely cruel) before the lawyers got on the case – it was illegal slaughter of non-infected animals. That prompted Blair to change policy – when he realised it was also illegal – not the inhumane slaughter. For once I hope Jolyan comes forward with a landmark case!

64760 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #17 of 1094 🔗

It never made sense back then now its looking like a plan.

64815 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #18 of 1094 🔗

It caused a lot of small farms to fold and Big Ag to get much bigger. Smells like a plan too!

64548 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to swedenborg, 16, #19 of 1094 🔗

PCR tests for RNA maybe useful but they are not definitive and +ve results can be triggered by residual material still present after an infection has been ‘zapped’ by your immune system. People want biology to be black and white bit it is not and PCR results need professional interpretation. The way pillar 2 PCR tests are being used seems quite wrong, it is like a medieval witch hunter, finding Covid everywhere and the nightmare goes on for ever!

64581 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Steve Martindale, 16, #20 of 1094 🔗

https://is.cdc.go.kr/upload_comm/syview/doc.html?fn=159118745823700.pdf&rs=/upload_comm/docu/0030/

The Korean study finding not viable RNA fragments 12 weeks later with pos PCR test but negative virus isolation is very important. I think the only way to challenge the UK government would be through the judicial system. Let’s say a person have respiratory symptoms pos PCR test and the Public Health Law applies and he/she should be isolated. Would it not be the best thing to appeal in a court that the evidence of being infected by a PCR test is not definite and should be always be confirmed by virus isolation? The person could reasonably claim a Covid-19 infection previously and it would be up to the government to prove that current infection really exists i.e. a reliable confirmatory evidence.

64831 ▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to swedenborg, 14, #21 of 1094 🔗

I’m really surprised that nobody in Leicester or any of the other places locked down has challenged the tests. It says plain as day on the government website that these are antigen tests and antigen is viral DNA fragments created by the destruction of virus by the immune system. Unless a person has symptoms or a further lab test is performed to isolate active virus, then asymptomatic people testing positive for antigen are RECOVERED not infected!!!

This absolutely is a game changer, or should be. It blows all the data on both cases and deaths diagnosed by PCR but asymptomatic totally out of the water.

But nobody is interested. There are a few articles floating around but MPs journalists etc don’t want to know.

Ghana press is much freeer. I’m planning to approach Ghanian journos and see if they will break it.

64724 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #22 of 1094 🔗

Have you read ‘Virus Mania’ by Torsten Engelbrecht? I highly recommend it.

64851 ▶▶▶ Mike Collins, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #23 of 1094 🔗

You only have to read what the inventor of the ‘test’ said – to use it to diagnose illness would be unprofessional at best! Enough said

65382 ▶▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #24 of 1094 🔗

finding Covid everywhere and the nightmare goes on for ever!”
Surely that’s the point

64700 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to swedenborg, 3, #25 of 1094 🔗

Jesus they’ve ramped up the dictatorship somewhat with that move.

A would-be-funny-if-it-wasnt-so-serious paragraph in that report

“The measures adopted last week by the Aragonese government have not yielded the expected results and have now been reinforced in an attempt to stem the wave of infections. In fact, a week after the first plan deployed by the regional Executive, the serious escalation of cases has not only not subsided but has worsened.”

Would love to know what those initial measures were, presumably, some business closures, more mask use, more distancing etc – So when those don’t work, just dig deeper.

64787 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, 10, #26 of 1094 🔗

Literally imprisoning people because they caught a cold.

64506 Bella, replying to Bella, 56, #28 of 1094 🔗

Can someone please explain to me the logic of gloves as mentioned in first item of Round Up? If your hands can be contaminated then how come gloves can’t? Have they got some special powers to ward off viruses? In all this lunacy where it seems people believe the Emperor’s got a nice new suit this reasoning takes the biscuit. I went for a drink yesterday in a place with hardly any restrictions at all, but the waitress wore gloves. I could see how sweaty her hands were underneath the gloves (the gloves were soaking wet) and they stank, whether of hand sanitiser or something else I don’t know. What is the insanity of banning reading materials from public transport, or stop someone running for a bus (surely that’s fake news?) because of viral spread but it’s absolutely fine to go running as exercise, cycling or using the gym?. I am unbelievably staggered .that people I took to be sensible can even entertain this bulshit. I want to scream from the rooftops IT MAKES NO EFFING SENSE. (I see amusingly from my Facebook feed that a stand up anarchist/leftist I once liked, Jonathan Pie, is now an unapologetic advocate of muzzles, so he’s off my list.) I never would have believed that we could find ourselves in the modern day equivalent of the Salem witch trials. If Arthur Miller wrote The Crucible today it wouldn’t be about McCarthyism, it would be about this bulshit.

64511 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella, 33, #29 of 1094 🔗

I posted before about staff fiddling with masks – or Snot Concentrators as they should be called – while serving food. Gloves would be just as bad, especially with the false sense of security. The Government has mandated a food hygeine hazard!

64814 ▶▶▶ alw, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #30 of 1094 🔗

Love it. 🤣 🤣 🤣

65402 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #31 of 1094 🔗

And for those who are required to wear the nappies for hours on end, are merely inhaling their own CO2. I see men cyclists wearing them. Madness!

64524 ▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Bella, #32 of 1094 🔗

Pie has had his chips!

64525 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Bella, 23, #33 of 1094 🔗

a stand up anarchist/leftist I once liked, Jonathan Pie, is now an unapologetic advocate of muzzles

Oh dear. Toby linked to one of his videos a couple of weeks ago and I really enjoyed it – having felt a bit queasy about him during the ‘Brexit years’. Sad news that he (his character) has finally sunk to this level of unawareness. As you say, another one off the list.

It really is unbelievable who turns out to be a member of the herd. I still haven’t got over Steve Baker being a pro-nappy man. Not to mention Rod Liddle.

64536 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #34 of 1094 🔗

I saw the mask one yesterday and was hugely disappointed, thought it was going to go the other way but sadly not.

64546 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #35 of 1094 🔗

I feel I ought to be able to quote Plato or Homer about thus not setting store into stars so yonder or similar. I can’t so will simply say – it’s good not to store faith in idols. Faith in yourself is a wiser way. Blimey, not too shabby for a Sunday even if I do say so myself!

64553 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Barney McGrew, 11, #36 of 1094 🔗

Steve Baker and Rod Liddle? Is that right? You’d have thought they would be the least likely to fall for the bullshit. Astounding.

64599 ▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Tenchy, #37 of 1094 🔗

You can never trust people.

64772 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #38 of 1094 🔗

PR campaigns….. people like Jonathan Pie, Tom Hanks, etc., are being bought. They are sell outs. Even as someone who was completely unknown and only got the odd line here or there in film and TV, I had opportunities like this come up during the Trump/Clinton election. It’s the only film/tv work I have ever…. EVER…. turned down.

65315 ▶▶▶▶ Northern Chubs, replying to TyLean, #39 of 1094 🔗

Here’s a good breakdown of the PR campaign the WHO is paying for on this matter: https://www.bitchute.com/video/EmWDUmFV6yY/

65235 ▶▶▶ Newmill Mark, replying to Barney McGrew, #40 of 1094 🔗

Liddle likes to position himself as “voice of the Volk”, just sides with the winners no matter what, Therefore just going along with the majority and adding his familiar “edge”. Amusing when you happen to agree, but rumbled when meeting reality that isn’t recently validated by the herd

64526 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Bella, 24, #41 of 1094 🔗

In their twisted minds, the subconscious is telling the wearers that gloves are good because their precious skin doesn’t have to touch anything that the lepers (everyone else) could have touched with their filthy diseased mitts. Unfortunately these base instincts have no capabilities of reasoning, logic or knowledge.
The conscious mind then rationalises it yet again as protecting others, when in fact it is entirely selfish and ineffective.
Logic is not a factor in the decision to wear them.

65044 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to TheBluePill, 9, #42 of 1094 🔗

Because people have heard that the virus spreads through touching surfaces, they seem to have made the leap to believing you catch it through your skin. Someone on here posted the other day that their girls’ school had banned shorts for PE for next term because of the risk of bare skin on surfaces. It was astonishing. Is this the quality of the people we trust to educate our children?

The risk comes from picking up a virus from a surface and then touching your face (mouth, nose, eyes). It’s very hard to touch these things with your thigh. I would think that the risk – already amplified by the tendency to fiddle with your face when you’re wearing a mask – is made even worse by wearing a pair of filthy disposable gloves you’ve been wearing since you left the house and touched every damn thing with them because they make you feel safer.

64707 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bella, 18, #43 of 1094 🔗

Can someone please explain to me the logic of gloves”

Nope, literally nobody would be able to…

64708 ▶▶ alison, replying to Bella, 9, #44 of 1094 🔗

I’m hoping that it was just some off-piste peer rambling in the House of Lords, followed by the Telegraph (as usual) seizing on click bait material.

Otherwise, it’s a new low in terms of being totally inexplicable and pointless.

64771 ▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Bella, -11, #45 of 1094 🔗

Stay calm Bella. You are not living in the Hunger Games just yet. Gloves have been used for years in the food preparation industries – years long before Covid arrived. You can look on the internet for articles about them. Like any measure in food safety they are ineffective if used incorrectly.

Oh and nobody has said you cannot read a book on public transport. You are safe again! You really must stop worrying and imagining this stuff. It’s making you tetchy.

65308 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to BoneyKnee, 1, #46 of 1094 🔗

Nice how you changed the narrative from newspapers to a book. Hope your 30 pieces of silver are worth it.

64510 Tenchy, 3, #47 of 1094 🔗

Toby’s recommendation, The Virus in the Age of Madness; don’t get it from Bezos, get the paperback edition from Books Etc. It’s published on Tuesday.

https://www.booksetc.co.uk/books/view/-9780300257373

Only problem is, at 68 pages the print edition is expensive.

64513 Basics, #48 of 1094 🔗

Strange capatcha at the top under the page head. Not sure why. Error?

64514 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 14, #49 of 1094 🔗

This is all just manufactured BS. They’re ramping up project fear so we don’t know what to expect next and we’re happy for our bit of “freedom”. Maybe we won’t complain about masks so much!
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64730 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #50 of 1094 🔗

Looks like the actual situation with deaths in Spain isn’t much different to here, except their numbers “flatlined” even earlier. It looks like the standard epidemic curve the disease has followed in most countries.

So is the sudden rise in “cases” an artifact resulting from increased testing? I thought maybe since they locked down earlier and harder there might be a bigger unexposed/susceptible percentage of the population compared to the UK, but the above graph seems to suggest not.

64740 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Drawde927, 7, #51 of 1094 🔗

It’s just because of testing. They’re finding people who don’t even know they have it but also there are false positives, the common cold can cause a positive result and there is talk of fake results either just made up or the test is pre-contaminated. These “cases” aren’t translating into deaths.

Currently 94,111 cases in Spain with 93.494 rated as “mild”.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

64880 ▶▶ Recusant, replying to Lockdown Truth, -1, #52 of 1094 🔗

I am in Spain at the moment, and frigging loving it, best holiday ever (in Aragon and all). I think that it is because of masks, everyone wears them here, even outside, which is ridiculous. I think that people think the masks are actually effective at stopping covid so have a false confidence. On the one hand it is lovely to go to restaurants full of people who aren’t bothering to social distance. On the other it is bound to lead to an uptick, but in young people who are almost certain to get better. Sounds about the right balance to me.

65021 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Lockdown Truth, #53 of 1094 🔗
64516 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #54 of 1094 🔗

I knew it! I saw an image on the Evening Standard showing people on the tube wearing gloves and just knew that was coming next.

64601 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Lockdown Truth, 11, #55 of 1094 🔗

Well I would recommend this to ensure no transmission while on public transport – or while in public

comment image

64619 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Major Panic, 2, #56 of 1094 🔗

It works on so many levels!

64621 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lockdown Truth, #57 of 1094 🔗

Revenge of the Mummies.

64517 davews, replying to davews, 31, #58 of 1094 🔗

After our regular Zoom church service this morning somebody brought up the issue of masks. I have always been aware that most of our church members have been taken in by the media hype lock stock and barrel and felt uncomfortable making any comment about my sceptical views. But almost without exception they all felt the mask idea was crazy, they are uncomfortable, and in our particular area the new case rate is so low that they are pointless. One woman works in our local Tesco, they have been told they have to wear them all the time, and after a full shift they are terrible. I think this confirms that what we all know here, all the herds religiously follow the rules but hate them profoundly. Let us wait till the supermarket staff protest about their compulsory use.

Doesn’t help where we are at the moment but I do feel a tad cheerier now.

64522 ▶▶ Edward Giles, replying to davews, 7, #59 of 1094 🔗

Our church is due to start services again next Sunday. Sadly our vicar at the end of this week’s on line service has just announced that the C of E is strongly advising wearing muzzles at services I fear that many will comply even though there are few cases in our area.

64527 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Edward Giles, 9, #60 of 1094 🔗

Bunch of goons. But then the “C” of E ceased being a “C” a long time ago.

64697 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Jonathan Castro, #61 of 1094 🔗

Try this Christian perspective on your pianola. Sent my by husband’s very sceptical and evangelical Christian brother (not about masks but the ‘plandemic’):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcQEKgxjDLk&feature=youtu.be

64668 ▶▶▶ Basileus, replying to Edward Giles, 13, #62 of 1094 🔗

I will not be attending our church until the mask wearing stops. Watched online a few minutes of the vicar preaching in a mask this morning but had to switch off. I want to worship God not covid.

64623 ▶▶ annie, replying to davews, 15, #63 of 1094 🔗

Confirms what I was beginning to suspect from meeting holidaymakers. They just yearn for a return to normality. I think the Fascists know this and are fighting a rearguard terror action. Keep pushing, folks, ’cause the rot is setting in.

64636 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 8, #64 of 1094 🔗

I agree with that. Blair is not pushed onto stage without reason. The rot is there, as it was from the start. The rag-tag sceptics can and will counter this abhorent grab for our rights and freedoms.

64641 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 10, #65 of 1094 🔗

The cracks are setting in and widening. I intend to enjoy watching the inevitable catch up with all those, not just the government, involved in this horror show.

65055 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to annie, 4, #66 of 1094 🔗

Yes out today in west yorks people are drifting back to proper normal theyv had enough

64519 Basics, replying to Basics, 14, #67 of 1094 🔗

Realising there is a rightly strengthening outrage at what we are enduring here I am reposting my whimsical new game. I believe laughing at oppression is a valid counter. This is harmless nonsense that even mask wearers can use to mock wearing masks. The numbers are so unutterably low that to do nothing is to succumb to the psychosis.

Supermarket mask ‘pub-cricket’.

For those barefaced shoppers there’s sport to be had to bring a little competitive fun to the supermarket* zombie apocalypse.

Like old time pub cricket it is a game to be enjoyed on the move. Similar to a staring competition the name of the game is to ‘affect’ mask wearers by attitude or glance. Causing a mask to be touched scores 1 point, a ‘pull’ scores 4 and a removal scores 6.

Its a non contact sport where if played correctly the maskees are non the wiser. Much sneak and cunning tactic can be devised to get that involuntary arm in motion!

Best played in pairs but equally good to practice alone. Mirth and merriment for children of all ages!

*can be played wild on the street in larger numbers.

64626 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, 1, #68 of 1094 🔗

There was a 60s film titled ‘Wild in the Street’. All about teenage rebellion.

64633 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to richard riewer, 1, #69 of 1094 🔗

I bet they weren’t cricketers! I will look it out. Thanks!

The younger folk in the streets not the chain shopping areas are not giving to much credence to masking. The spar/co op type shops. Let them get on with it the wild bunch that they are!

64670 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, 1, #70 of 1094 🔗
65058 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Basics, 1, #71 of 1094 🔗

Yes a group were going in to a post office all.masked up , I jokingly asked if they were planning on holding it up

64520 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 28, #72 of 1094 🔗

“Sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because they don’t want their illusions destroyed.”
Friedrich Nietzsche

64534 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, 3, #73 of 1094 🔗

We are at that point with many. Not all. But many.

64543 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Basics, 10, #74 of 1094 🔗

I think one of the biggest illusions is that the government is motivated to act, and implementing policies, in ‘our’ best interests…this is clearly not the case in many (most?) countries around the world in their response to COVID…

64554 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, 6, #75 of 1094 🔗

The link between governments acting in our interest is one I don’t grasp. The maskees where deriding the whole political sharade but 12 short months ago. Yet now we are hanging off every word these thugs in suits say.

I do not grasp the mechanism at work to switch from untrusting to trusting.

64567 ▶▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Basics, 8, #76 of 1094 🔗

Good point. Maybe the difference here is that people have been spooked to fear an imminent threat to their lives from an invisible enemy that could strike anyone at anytime.

They are terrified and looking to the “authorities” to help them but have forgotten that these same “authorities” have been lying to them over most things for a long time.

The alternative approach is self-reliance and independent thought and action. But unfortunately seems the majority is just not up to it at this moment.

64589 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, 9, #77 of 1094 🔗

I recognise what you say. Perhaps my revulsion towards politicians is ‘real’ where in others 12 months ago was a caricature only. I simply cannot reconcile the two. The fearing started the herd mentality at work, which I cannot fathom either. But listen to these grunts in suits to protect me? Ha!

I truly must not be self-aware to appreciate how different I am from the flock. These politicians are not worth spit this year or any year. It’s that simple for me.

If a plague comes then I remain read to take responsible and reasonable action. Otherwise I will continue living my life. They don’t care about me unless they want something from me.

64600 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to Humanity First, #78 of 1094 🔗

Maybe they never were.

64603 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Humanity First, 4, #79 of 1094 🔗

Sadly, few of us are actually self-reliant. As for independent thought, that’s definitely a minority thing!

65106 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Nick Rose, #80 of 1094 🔗

Sapere aude has gone out of fashion.
To gens Y and Z it is a completely alien concept anyway

64676 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Humanity First, #81 of 1094 🔗

Unfortunately the majority of people are wired to follow. If people weren’t awakened by the Iraq War sell job with its constant fear mongering about WMD, they’re surely not able to spot the obvious parallels with this Covid campaign of bollocks and fear. They all believe our Western governments would never do such a thing and tyranny is something that only happens in far away lands run by ‘bad guys’.

65105 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Humanity First, #82 of 1094 🔗

I agree, unless they know and prepare us for a bigger danger, which they can’t tell us about yet, see Deep Impact.

If they had acted in the peoples best interest and good faith at the start, they negated that now through their, in the best case sunk-cost-fallacy and cognitive-dissonance driven, actions since then.

64625 ▶▶ annie, replying to Humanity First, 4, #83 of 1094 🔗

And yet their illusions make them terrified and miserable! Talk about the worst of both worlds!

64521 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 16, #84 of 1094 🔗

Well Sainsbury’s Brookwood was very unpleasant this morning. Apart from one of the checkout staff (who I naturally gravitated towards after I’d done my shopping), I was the only person in the store not wearing a mask.
Maybe my local Sainsbury’s will be better. I know the Woking area is positively dystopian at the moment, with antisocial distancing and mask notices everywhere.

64561 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Castro, 11, #85 of 1094 🔗

Cheer yourself up with a game of supermarket mask pub cricket! I caught myself avoiding eye contact in my opressive shop last week… that’s what they want. So fight back with a smile, it makes things better. You are likely to even find a few who are masked but simmering with hatred of it. Keep spirits up.

64857 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 7, #86 of 1094 🔗

Defo the best thing yo can do is act normal, smile and be yourself and look people in the eye.
They hate it. They *hate* that some people aren’t afraid, because deep down they know they’re cowards. It’s all projection.

64861 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Farinances, 2, #87 of 1094 🔗

Over here in Greece, this is what many waiters, shop staff and shoppers are wearing. It’s a bit odd but at least you can see smiles and expressions. Of course it does nothing to prevent catching a virus but sort of falls within the law out here.

65212 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to CarrieAH, #88 of 1094 🔗

I have to say that of all the coverings I’ve seen that is the best so far, in terms of still being able to see the face. But we still shouldn’t be wearing anything at all.

64572 ▶▶ fran, replying to Jonathan Castro, 8, #89 of 1094 🔗

Interested in your comment …. on hearing that this mask rule was comming in on 24th and finding that wearing a mask is very unpleasant ( I get dizzy spells and coughing fits after a just couple of minutes) on Wednesday 15th I did a major shop at that particular branch of Sainsburys. No problem going in without a mask at that time, it seemed like ~ 40% customers were masked. I did another major shop there last Wednesday and suprisingly there seemed less customers masked.

Fortunately in my town we have a excellent Co-op & a M&S Simply Food store at the petrol station so I hope that one or the other of those will allow me in without a mask to get milk & bread.

64578 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to fran, 8, #90 of 1094 🔗

Brilliant! I look forward to the day when I meet another bare face in a super market again. Scotland here.

64627 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, 7, #91 of 1094 🔗

Keep your courage, Scotties! There will come an end! De-Sturgeonise Scotland now!

65214 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Basics, #92 of 1094 🔗

Me!

64593 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to fran, 5, #93 of 1094 🔗

They both have to let you in fran. You have a valid exemption (medical).

64863 ▶▶▶ Willow, replying to fran, #94 of 1094 🔗

There’s a link to an useful toolkit from this page. Sets out what you need to do in case of discrimination
http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/face-covering-litigation-threats-and-administrative-headache/

65321 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Willow, #95 of 1094 🔗

Take downloaded the pdf

64925 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to fran, 1, #96 of 1094 🔗

I did go into the food store in the Knaphill town centre near the garage and didn’t get many looks. They had a table with sanitiser near the door which I didn’t use.
I’m hoping the Burpham Sainsbury’s will be better. It was pretty relaxed last Thursday.

65030 ▶▶ John Mirra, replying to Jonathan Castro, 2, #97 of 1094 🔗

If you want to be cheered up go for a walk in Woking park around 8ish to see all the kids and park goers getting on and enjoying life. At least that is what it was like a week or two ago (I’ve been a few times over the last 2 months).

During this whole thing I have been avoiding large shops due to queues and how they seem to attract the worst kinds of people. The only times I remembered seeing masked people in stores before Friday was when visiting a B&Q and another large store, which I found amusing because they are literally stores where you have stupid amounts of space to distance from each other.

64530 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 27, #98 of 1094 🔗

The problem with those lanyards is that the authorities are going to catch on to them eventually, making life hell for people with actual disabilities. If you want to rebel against wearing a mask, then rebel. But hiding behind disabled people is not rebellion.

64531 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 9, #99 of 1094 🔗

I don’t have a lanyard, but wearing hearing aids and glasses I could probably get one if I really wanted. But I agree with you, that we need to break the rules properly.

64538 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Jonathan Castro, 9, #100 of 1094 🔗

Hearing aids, varifocal glasses, nasal rhinitis, not to mention putting a mask on gives me the frights. I have huge issues with then tangling with the hearing aids and have wrecked a couple of masks due to the straps breaking around my aids. I shall be trying the government issued lanyard tomorrow in Tesco, not sure lanyards really help but will try and get the message out that some of us can’t wear the horrible things.

64539 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Castro, 18, #101 of 1094 🔗

I agree and understand the reluctance to do so. No one wants stress and threat as part of their daily life.

My suggestion is for people to take these lanyards with them if they like. But pocketed and produced in the event of a question. A security blanket.

I agree with the sentiment we need to protest properly. But understand this is not acceptable for some.

64542 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 11, #102 of 1094 🔗

What ‘authorities’? Police have already stated no enforcement, the Karens have no power.
But I applaud your wish to support those with disabilities.

64550 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 27, #103 of 1094 🔗

These ‘lanyards’ are somewhat analogous to wearing a yellow star in my opinion.
Why should people for whatever reason have to display a physical symbol to justify getting into a shop ffs?? It’s humiliating and it’s just not right!!

64568 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sue, 10, #104 of 1094 🔗

Sue. I agree. You hsve a great point. It is humiliating. Perhaps tgat is why the gov have set this in motion without regulation. We adopt the labeling hidden disability identification within society without a second thought. Perhaps the yellow star regulation will come in. To put in a top down regulation for lanyards would be identical to the yellow star. Are we voting for yellow stars by using a lanyard?

Perhaps people with hidden disabilities are grateful that more publuc are aware and so have greater understanding of issues.

Its a complex issue, yet I think properly protesting is the correct thing to do.

64794 ▶▶▶▶ Che Strazio, replying to Basics, 3, #105 of 1094 🔗

Sadly a yellow symbol is already in the govermental ‘face covering exemption’ badge download versions. It’s a yellow circle with a keep your distance symbol within the circle.
A shiver went down my spine when I saw it. I’m lost for words.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/903453/Exemption_from_face_covering_badge_to_print.pdf

and

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/903452/Exemption_from_face_covering_badge_for_mobile_phone.pdf

64804 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Che Strazio, 2, #106 of 1094 🔗

Things are wrong.

64721 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Sue, 8, #107 of 1094 🔗

I agree with that and am doing what Basics suggests and keeping it in my bag to produced if needed. Although I have a legit exemption I am not the sort of person who likes to Make a song and dance about my condition and would not normally seek to be seen as in anyway debilitated. I hate wearing the lanyard because it seems to say “pity me”. On the flip side i do want the special treatment of not having to wear the muzzle!

64837 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sue, 5, #108 of 1094 🔗

Wearing a face nappy is more humiliating!
At least the lanyard wearers prove you can shop safely without wearing a muzzle.
I still think the produce it only if challenged is the best approach though.

64557 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 12, #109 of 1094 🔗

I agree. The lanyards implicitly concede legitimacy to the government’s abuse of law, whether one intends to do so or not.

If people feel the need for reassurance in case of confrontation, then I would agree with Basic below – take it with you but keep it out of sight unless needed.

64595 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 12, #110 of 1094 🔗

The lanyards also cover those of us that experience severe distress at having a covering over the mouth and nose…this is one of the psychological effects on emotional and mental wellbeing.

64614 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Azoumi, 11, #111 of 1094 🔗

Yes that is true Azoumi. The point is that lanyards are an imposition in themselves. In a free society they have no place other than to alert a fact that a person may require assistance outside of normal courtesy.

A lanyard is not a way forward to be exempting people from bad laws.

In order to protest this showing a lanyard isn’t helpful. However as I have said I understand the anxiety this causes people and so suggested people carry a lanyard if they wish. Keep it in your pocket and produce if it seems required. That way seems a compromise. It’s just my opinion.

64726 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Basics, 11, #112 of 1094 🔗

This is what we (husband) and I have decided to do too. We’re keeping cards in our pockets and we’ll only produce them if there’s no other choice. In fact this should not be necessary according to the Government’s own guidelines.

I had made lanyards for us but then we decided for the same reasons as all of you (above) that we don’t think labelling ourselves or anyone else is the way to go.

If a member of the public challenges us we will politely tell them that it’s against the law for them to do so.

65195 ▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Basics, 3, #113 of 1094 🔗

Yes and I don’t disagree one bit…it’s just a bit scary when you’re on your own and have to do you’re shopping n stuff…I am more scared of being attacked or something to be honest…I am working towards going bare faced with no lanyard though and the more confident I get the more blatant I will become!

64710 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 8, #114 of 1094 🔗

I’m entitled an exemption but tbh I think the government’s lax approach to dishing them out is deliberate. They have basically given the entire population a get out if they choose to take it. Anybody who is anti mask would find wearing one distressing so they don’t have to. Years of people banging on about “hidden disabilities” means most people would be wary of challenging another person . I think the government is actually very well aware masks make no difference to the virus (otherwise places where they must be worn wouldn’t be so random) but they thought it would reassure the most scared. I think they realised for every bedwetter who would go to the shops with a mask a sceptic would chose to stay home and shop on line. A self certified exemption regime enables them to square the circle.

64752 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #115 of 1094 🔗

Which basically is what they’ve been doing most of the time. Even our lockdown wasn’t particularly harshly enforced, at least by the government themselves. It was by nasty spying neighbours, but that’s a different story altogether. The police were asked to stop crowds descending on Wales or the Peak District en masse, but day to day stuff was mostly left alone. I drove every day on empty roads between my home and my land to look after my animals, and although I was very wary of being stopped, I never was. The media made a huge deal of everything, but the government didn’t really. Only Matt Hancock and he’s an idiot. I’m not excusing the government by saying this, just looking back and getting some hindsight. Now the mask thing – they have given plenty of ways to get around it, even by putting notices on their own website that you can download.

Quarantine when coming back from abroad though is a different issue, and they don’t seem to really want anyone leaving the country and spending money abroad. They are making it deliberately difficult. They’ve pumped billions of £££ into the economy from the bottom up through furlough etc.and they want it staying in the U.K. That’s what it seems like.

64755 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 6, #116 of 1094 🔗

Which basically is what they’ve been doing most of the time. Even our lockdown wasn’t particularly harshly enforced, at least by the government themselves. It was by nasty spying neighbours, but that’s a different story altogether. The police were asked to stop crowds descending on Wales or the Peak District en masse, but day to day stuff was mostly left alone. I drove every day on empty roads between my home and my land to look after my animals, and although I was very wary of being stopped, I never was. The media made a huge deal of everything, but the government didn’t really. Only Matt Hancock and he’s an idiot. I’m not excusing the government by saying this, just looking back and getting some hindsight. Now the mask thing – they have given plenty of ways to get around it, even by putting notices on their own website that you can download.

Quarantine when coming back from abroad though is a different issue, and they don’t seem to really want anyone leaving the country and spending money abroad. They are making it deliberately difficult. They’ve pumped billions of £££ into the economy from the bottom up through furlough etc.and they want it staying in the U.K. That’s what it seems like.

This really is why I think the whole thing is to do with finances, money, the Great Reset, rather than a virus. The virus “just happened” to come along at the right time (ha!) to press the Reset switch. Plus of course it always helps to shift the elderly and vulnerable off to the great retirement home in the sky, and save even more money.

64841 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #117 of 1094 🔗

The nudge unit are clearly behind this and it’s all about depersonalising us. It has nothing to do with confidence but is about instilling the opposite.
I suspect the bedwetters have had 5 months to get their online shopping streamlined and will not go out anyway.

65116 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Cheezilla, #118 of 1094 🔗

Absolutely correct.
The whole thing, incl.SD, is atbthus stage just about testing the public’s obedience levels and about preventing any opposition arising through the multiplying, untraceable and uncontrollable conversations made in face to face meetings.

65111 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #119 of 1094 🔗

I agree.
In Germany and Austria you need a specific medical exemption certificate by a doctor to be able to pass the guards.

65189 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #120 of 1094 🔗

Totally agree and exactly what I said to my kids

64751 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #121 of 1094 🔗

It’s not just those with disabilities. Read the list of exemptions. One of the exemptions is ‘if putting a mask on would cause distress’ and one won’t know until a person puts a mask on that he or she is suffering distress. Another is if donning a mask will exacerbate someone with breathing problems. Again not a visible disability. Those with (a) mental problem(s). Again, not a visible disbaility necessarily.

64836 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #122 of 1094 🔗

I don’t think they should be worn as a matter of course but can be carried and produced when necessary if challenged by shop staff – which shouldn’t happen anyway.

64852 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #123 of 1094 🔗

I agree. I don’t blame anyone who does it for an easy life though.

The gvt. are the liars, not me. You don’t beat them by joining them.

65060 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #124 of 1094 🔗

I agree with those here who have said that it’s better to defy completely than to use the lanyards, but you have to be prepared for the possibility of confrontation and some people don’t want that.

More to the point, I’m completely convinced that the “authorities” won’t catch on to this, because they’re already aware it’s a farce. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t have made the exemptions so broad as to potentially include absolutely anybody and they wouldn’t have made it a self certification process.

64552 Mark, replying to Mark, 16, #125 of 1094 🔗

There’s clearly a question about usage with regard to the term “lockdown”. For me, the whole point about lockdown is that it is coercive. Reductions in activity achieved by voluntary measures are not lockdown. That’s fundamental for me. Voluntary restrictions are fine, because people can choose to ignore them. Coercive restrictions are wrongful, because they are an abuse of law.

64571 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark, 1, #126 of 1094 🔗

Seems an approriate link to your post: https://www.newchartistmovement.org.uk/

64982 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Mark, 2, #127 of 1094 🔗

The phrase “lockdown” comes, as you all know, directly from prison jargon. We are all being conditioned into acting as if we are in an open-air prison; which will then get smaller and smaller..

64555 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 16, #128 of 1094 🔗

There are rumours that Romania will declare soon a second lockdown. This is an interesting example. They had an early very severe lockdown during several months. The cases decreased.
Mandatory masks early on in several parts of the country. Censorship laws forbidding spreading false rumours about Covid-19 with no right to appeal. Then some easing of measures.
Romania has again rapidly increasing numbers 1000 per day. If the first lockdown was ruinous who is going to pay for the second one? These countries in Europe which instituted a vigorous lockdown early on and were admired for the low case count afterwards as a shining example of lockdown are in for serious trouble. There is a big Romanian diaspora in Europe. Watch out Austria, Germany and Greece. Lots of agriculture workers from Romania in these countries. This just shows the folly of lockdown and you cannot stop a respiratory virus with laws.

64570 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 4, #129 of 1094 🔗

Agree 100%. Tegnell and Giescke actually said this way back in March or April. My only caution concerning your argument is that a lot of countries with a low death rate, especially as a percentage of known infections, also persisted in post mortem examinations. Germany springs to mind here. They did stop PMs for a while, but soon returned to them.

64573 ▶▶ Basics, replying to swedenborg, 1, #130 of 1094 🔗

‘Romania has again rapidly increasing numbers 1000 per day.’ Cannot italicise sorry.

Tests, cases, hospital admissions what is increasing?

64580 ▶▶▶ Oldschool, replying to Basics, 17, #131 of 1094 🔗

Positive tests are going up and hospital cases will also go up because the ridiculous Romanian government mandated last week that anyone who tests positive must spend al least 48 hours in hospital for “observation”. If you refuse the police will arrest and take you to hospital
Ceaucescu would be so proud

64584 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Oldschool, 6, #132 of 1094 🔗

wow that’s draconian! I work with company colleagues in romania – i’ll ask them next week what’s going on. We start our conference calls with an update on the virus in our different countries romania, italy and uk! 🙂

64588 ▶▶▶▶▶ Oldschool, replying to Sue, 9, #133 of 1094 🔗

My wife tested positive on Friday and she had to go to hospital last night, she has very mild symptoms and we have enough room for her completely isolate away from me and the kids but she was told she had no choice.
It was an ambulance or a police car

64605 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Oldschool, 1, #134 of 1094 🔗

Can one refuse to be tested – or just not ask?

64613 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Oldschool, replying to IanE, 7, #135 of 1094 🔗

You need to go to a hospital to be tested by the government but a lot of companies here are testing employees and I suppose that is down to your contract. A lot of people are also getting tested so they can leave the country as most of Romania’s neighbors are asking for a recent negative test to let you cross the border, these test are done by private labs
All of the private labs that are doing testing are required by law to inform the health ministry when they get a positive.
That is how my wife got caught, she had a slight temperature and a cough so she got a test at work, while the test was being processed they passed the new law requiring hospitalization and when it came back positive of she went,
On top of that me and the kids need to completely isolate for 2 weeks, if I am caught outside my property I can be fined, luckily I have someone to get food for us

64620 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to Oldschool, 3, #136 of 1094 🔗

Demand a second test, look what happened with St Mirren coaches

64631 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Oldschool, replying to peter, 4, #137 of 1094 🔗

She will get another test in hospital
Results back in 48 hours, head they win, tails you lose

64642 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Oldschool, 3, #138 of 1094 🔗

Bad luck on that – my sympathies with you both!

64848 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 1, #139 of 1094 🔗

I suspect if you refuse, it will be Black Mariah and disappearance.

64615 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Oldschool, 5, #140 of 1094 🔗

Ridiculous. I’m sorry for you and your family.

64846 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Oldschool, #141 of 1094 🔗

Yikes!

64847 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Oldschool, 3, #142 of 1094 🔗

!!!
So she’s in hospital with a cold?

64940 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Oldschool, replying to Farinances, 4, #143 of 1094 🔗

Basically yes, they are treating her with hydroxichloriquine, so they are not completely bonkers

65119 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Oldschool, 1, #144 of 1094 🔗

Wow.
Rebelling doctors then.
Against the Gilead and vaccine lobby, that is courageous and important.

64594 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Oldschool, 11, #145 of 1094 🔗

Holy F I am glad I asked. In Europe too.

Just noticed we are hearing zero instances of reasonable actions being taken outside of Sweden. Each new News item is yet another negative story for humanity.

64845 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Oldschool, 1, #146 of 1094 🔗

*crosses off list*

😣

64585 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Basics, 2, #147 of 1094 🔗

I only have the reported cases as per worldometer and no further details.

64604 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Basics, 1, #148 of 1094 🔗

Maybe this is your operating system, but mine allows one to select text and then click on B/I/U/$ for bold/italics/underline/strike-through.

64607 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to IanE, 2, #149 of 1094 🔗

Thanks. Mobile says no. I think its limited funtionality on a phone.

64644 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Basics, 1, #150 of 1094 🔗

Yes – makes sense. Sometimes the symbols are a bit impenetrable: sorry if grandmas, eggs and sucking come to mind though!

64576 ▶▶ Oldschool, replying to swedenborg, 5, #151 of 1094 🔗

I live in Romania and the government are already locking down certain areas, the general consensus here is that the government will be reluctant to lock down the whole country because there are elections coming up in September and the anti lockdown sentiment is pretty strong so it would kill the very small majority the ruling coalition currently enjoy
The country locked down really hard, really early with very few cases and now we are enjoying the real first wave, deaths however are still pretty low and almost non existent among the healthy
The main spread seems to be in tourist areas at the Black Sea and mountain resorts so it is possible they could close them down for a few weeks but again, those pesky elections may hold that off

64844 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, 2, #152 of 1094 🔗

Goddamn it Romania is one of my flee to countries.

64946 ▶▶▶ Oldschool, replying to Farinances, 3, #153 of 1094 🔗

Romania is stunning but the government are absolute garbage, they automatically revert to authoritarian policies whenever they can. Plus the president has his sights on an EU position after his last term so he has no interest in supporting the people here. He is scum

64556 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 10, #154 of 1094 🔗

I love this guy – Bjorn Andreas Bull-Hansen – I’ve only just discovered him, but I find him so inspirational. This particular video is from early May.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUPkZJRyVps

“Sometimes you have to break the law to be a decent human being.”

64590 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #155 of 1094 🔗

Yes, he seems an interesting guy. Would love to know which ship that is at the end of the video!

64558 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 21, #156 of 1094 🔗

Given the widespread association of face coverings with subservience, both historically on prisoners and slaves and in contemporary cultures, it may also violate Article 3: ‘No one shall be subjected to degrading treatment’.

Human Rights Act 1998

64628 ▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 4, #157 of 1094 🔗

Yes, I was wondering about ‘degrading’.

64673 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to annie, 5, #158 of 1094 🔗

I’m not sure people know what that is, people are now more than happy to watch people on reality shows degrading themselves for fame, the plebs want their ‘journey’ through this pandemic.

64559 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 15, #159 of 1094 🔗

The official approach to Covid is starting to resemble a descent into Dante’s 9 circles of hell. The question is what if anything can be done? Many people reading Lockdown Skeptics are in agreement about the horror of this nonsense but many people in the Country are OK with all this madness. So what can we do? what should we do?

64564 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Steve Martindale, 20, #160 of 1094 🔗

They’re all OK with this madness until it starts affecting them: losing jobs, unable to get some official paperwork, unable to go on holiday or return from it. Churchill was right about democracy: for large part, people aren’t that intelligent.

64574 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to IMoz, 30, #161 of 1094 🔗

Hear hear, there are a large amount of people who have been sitting at home on their arses for 3 months on 80% wages with no travel costs. Once the jolly jape finishes and they are out of a job they will soon change their tune

If Boris had any balls he would end the furlough scheme get all civil servants back to work, ignore the unions – no work no pay. Things will soon change.

Speaking as a civil servant I’m thoroughly pissed off working from home working and living in my ‘office’, I’d be back tomorrow.

We’ve all had the if it was so bad supermarket workers, postman, couriers, police would be dead and rotting in the streets.

There is no danger, the bogeyman is sitting on a beach drinking a drink with a little umbrella in it smoking a fat joint pissing himself laughing at us.

I wish I could join him!!!

64733 ▶▶▶▶ alison, replying to stefarm, 12, #162 of 1094 🔗

I work in public sector too, in Scotland. Really wish somebody would let me back into an office, as I am also sick of having home space commandeered as an office, unfortunately sounds like no prospect any time soon.
Really tired of the ‘let’s all work from home for good’ agenda. Fair enough to give a choice, but lots of people would choose to get back to a normal work environment. Lots of my colleagues feel same. It’s a few noisy people in unions, a few risk averse managers, and a few particularly highly strung individuals who, as far as I can tell are the big fans of the home working.

64773 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to alison, 2, #163 of 1094 🔗

I work in public sector too, in Scotland – me too

64862 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to alison, 3, #164 of 1094 🔗

Working from home is fine for the affluent with a spare bedroom to convert. Unfortunately, they’re the ones clamouring to keep things as they are.

65500 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to alison, #165 of 1094 🔗

You can ask to see their risk assessment. They have to account for your mental health in terms of isolation. Also your house/home environment needs to fulfil a safe working environment (not always appropriate). Make them work for the madness. If you feel their policy is detriment to your health tell them and force them to do something about it.

64592 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to IMoz, 18, #166 of 1094 🔗

Masks have woken a few people, I think once the big numbers of job losses start in the autumn, we will see more people waking up to the fact this has all been a restructuring plan.

64606 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #167 of 1094 🔗

Each new opression will gather more realisation something badly is wrong. Let them try gloves. Let’s have Loose women chatter drivel about gloves – waking people up in numbers we can only dream of. Whenever the tipping point is reached it will be a fast reversal of behaviours.

64610 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 6, #168 of 1094 🔗

We can take comfort in the knowledge that that tipping point will come. The authorities are rushing into a dystopia on a timescale of weeks, when you usually need years to establish yourself.

Even Lenin had to learn this lesson the hard way.

65253 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #169 of 1094 🔗

I watched a video clip several hours ago of Frankie goes to Hollywood on Top of the Pops, 1984. They were all wearing gloves.

65042 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #170 of 1094 🔗

The fact that even supermarkets are dead speaks volumes – once more and more shops close and more people lose their jobs, the shit will hit the fan and people will wake up that they’ve been had.

64608 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to IMoz, 7, #171 of 1094 🔗

When the furlough runs out. Game over.

64860 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, 2, #172 of 1094 🔗

Yes. The backlog of paperwork is soon going to hit hard.
If your passport expires in the lockdown queue, does that mean you’ve no valid ID if you don’t drive?

64577 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to Steve Martindale, 16, #173 of 1094 🔗

To be honest there’s not much we can do. Don’t stop sending the message but if you take this too seriously it could drive you insane. Best to take an observer role if you can. Eventually people will individually realise what is going on. I hope.

64583 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Steve Martindale, 14, #174 of 1094 🔗

i’m having a nice cup of tea and just waiting for the whole nonsense to blow over

64706 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Biker, 1, #175 of 1094 🔗

Cornetto?

64591 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Steve Martindale, 9, #176 of 1094 🔗

I wonder whether the Spanish decision might be more significant than we think – it will be a few days before we get a true sense of the anger (when people start getting home, or try to get refunds).

64843 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #177 of 1094 🔗

I think it is. It’s the beginning of mass irritation (along with masks, but them not so much as people love to virtue signal).

People will realise that they can’t plan anything any more without fear of having it cancelled at short notice and/or being imprisoned afterwards for two weeks. They will realise we can’t actually LIVE under these circumstances.

Well hopefully anyway. The Comfortably Unbothereds need to be made uncomfortable.

64598 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #178 of 1094 🔗

and remember to have fun and enjoy every day

64602 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 11, #179 of 1094 🔗

One superb way to have fun is introduce a little Supetnarket mask pub cricjet into your daily routine… !!

Victoria makes yet another excellent point. Have fun. Enjoy. That is where we beat them. Not by becoming unwell from anger. Use the anger to motivate.

Personally I cannot help laughing at the farce, yet I realise the fight is fundamental to our lives.

65086 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #180 of 1094 🔗

Just a general comment to multiple replies…. When? When is it that people are “going to realise?” Who are these people who are going to spontaneously break out of mob mentality and have a moment of self-reflection to think, “I’m being an authoritarian cunt.” Do you know how long it took Germans to even contemplate that they may have done something wrong? They basically never did. The ones who lived through it eventually died and were outnumbered by those who did not live through it.

It is affecting them now. And they are loving the martyrdom. The more they bleed for it, the more pious and righteous they will feel. I don’t think anyone has changed their minds during any of this. The silenced have merely started speaking up – and some of us screaming at the top of our lungs.

64566 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 77, #181 of 1094 🔗

Totally off topic in one sense but very pertinent in another.

At the risk of sounding obsequious I think that the likes of Toby Young, Peter Hitchens and indeed all you who post here and are trying your level best in the real world to push back are doing a tremendous job. In the face of this collective hysteria it can be screamingly difficult to act as we would wish. The power of group think, madness of crowds and the corresponding peer pressure to conform does not make the lives of us sceptics easy. I am lucky in that I have a wife who thinks like me and we are in harmony but my neighbours, most of my friends and some of my family seem to be virus addicts. I am fortunate also in the sense that whilst there can be no one out there who is more sceptical than I my dad passed on to me a temperament that can stand in the face of fear, panic and nonsense and feel, more often than not, pity for those so affected.

Don’t forget this and I say it to myself on a regular basis:

‘All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing’.

The good men (and women) were always in the minorit—as indeed we sceptics are—and it was never easy.

Just continue to do ‘something’ however small it may seem. If it means wearing a mask at a jaunty angle so it looks ridiculous, sporting an exemption tag, a lanyard or indeed just refusing to go along with the masking nonsense at all, it all adds to the sum total of refusing to lie down and be dehumanised by a power that does not have our best interests at heart.
It’s great that we can come here and share experiences and get stuff off our chests. But the overall and hugely beneficial aspect to all of this is that —in my case at least— it reinforces the fact that I am one of the good guys and that’s tremendously important for my sanity and self respect.

64586 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Harry hopkins, 11, #182 of 1094 🔗

Well said Harry.

64632 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 12, #183 of 1094 🔗

Well said indeed.
But we do a lot just by staying sane. It’s a little bit like the concentration camps: the survivors were sustained by a burning desire to see justice on their oppressors.
They hanged Hoess at the entrance to Auschwitz. There is such a thing as justice.

64596 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Harry hopkins, 10, #184 of 1094 🔗

Thanks for the reminder. So true

‘All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing’.

64811 ▶▶ alw, replying to Harry hopkins, 14, #185 of 1094 🔗

I grew up in apartheid South Africa and left when I could. I do not like being told what to do or think and will resist things which I think are wrong. We need more people who are prepared to stand up and be counted.

65046 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #186 of 1094 🔗

Hear, hear!!! I wish I can recommend this comment more than once.

65052 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #187 of 1094 🔗

Hey Harry, you have just lifted my spirits. Many Thanks for those timely words !!!!!!

65057 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #188 of 1094 🔗

‘All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing’.

100%

Thanks Harry

65276 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #189 of 1094 🔗

I went into six shops on Sunday morning with my ‘mask exemp’ lanyard at the ready in my pocket but did not need to produce it.
If I am ‘reminded’ that I’m supposed to wear one I’ll try “thanks mate/luv/darlin’ I’m exempt, Cheers! “.

64575 Sarigan, 9, #190 of 1094 🔗

The Science and Law article linked by Toby is superb and I highly recommend reading in full.

It is however equally troubling as I do not think this country as a whole, has the cohones or desire to do anything about this.

64579 PowerCorrupts, #191 of 1094 🔗

No wonder we see so few challenges to the current insanity by doctors and the rest of the professional class: what happened to employment law?
https://www.stopthenewnormal.com/british-pakistani-doctors-licence-revoked-for-peddling-coronavirus-conspiracy-theory/

64587 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #192 of 1094 🔗

“Almost 40 countries have reported record single-day increases in coronavirus infections over the past week, around double the number that did so the previous week, according to a Reuters tally showing a pick-up in the pandemic in every region of the world”.

At least this will be driving the IFR lower and lower as most asymptomatic, false positives or mild cases plus deaths bottoming out.

Just how low does it need to go though?

64638 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Sarigan, 3, #193 of 1094 🔗

Ah yes, Matthew 7:7 ( …. seek and ye shall find ).

64597 TJN, replying to TJN, 12, #194 of 1094 🔗

I hope they stop this muzzle business soon. I can’t afford to keep going shopping like this.

64611 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to TJN, #195 of 1094 🔗

Have you signed the petition to repeal forced masking?:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430

64616 ▶▶ Basics, replying to TJN, 10, #196 of 1094 🔗

That is extreme anxiety. EXEMPT!

64645 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Basics, 4, #197 of 1094 🔗

It’s a bit like the real Nazi bit of the lockdown. I was glad when they ended it as then I didn’t have to go out so much.

64872 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, 1, #198 of 1094 🔗

Ironically, I went out a lot more then!

65227 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Cheezilla, #199 of 1094 🔗

We did too!

64871 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, #200 of 1094 🔗

You are a beacon of fine examplehood TJN!
Thank you for your service.

65081 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #201 of 1094 🔗

Seriously, it’s costing me money! I went in Tescos yesterday needing nothing but just got some booze, of which I have loads already. Today it was coca-cola and chocolate, which I don’t need. Friday it was milk, which we don’t need as we have deliveries and it went straight in the freezer.

64965 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to TJN, #202 of 1094 🔗

It’s on the books until 23 July 2021. Of course we’re all hoping it’s scrapped way before then!

65084 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #203 of 1094 🔗

Johnson says he’s expecting it to be in place until next summer. I’m bored with it already.

64609 PowerCorrupts, #204 of 1094 🔗

The campaign below is by Zed Phoenix who wants to legally challenge the UK cov19 tracking ‘Health’ Passport, which makes acting as a sovereign individual (job, travel, school, or whatever else they want to include) conditional on your being vaccinated and up to date, of course. He runs a media platform govote.org and I found out about his campaign on KeepBritainFree.com (Simon Dolan’s, who is also attempting judicial review of lockdown. KBFis a site worth supporting, as is Zed Phoenix who is apparently now being crushed by social media with government apparently taking an unhealthy interest in his campaign:

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/join-the-legal-challenge-to-st/

64612 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #205 of 1094 🔗

One wonders whether or not our dear leaders have been reading the life story of Howard Hughes for inspiration on how to control our population.

“Howard Hughes–the billionaire aviator, motion-picture producer and business tycoon–spent most of his life trying to avoid germs. Toward the end of his life, he lay naked in bed in darkened hotel rooms in what he considered a germ-free zone. He wore tissue boxes on his feet to protect them. And he burned his clothing if someone near him became ill.”

https://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug05/hughes

I haven’t seen anyone wearing tissue boxes on their feet in my neck of the woods—maybe they’re all in bed!
But if the initial run on toilet rolls when Coroni was just getting started was anything to go by perhaps the next ‘must have’ accessory will be an incinerator.

64622 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #206 of 1094 🔗

I will bet you 20 hard earned British pounds that the toilet roll episode was a manufactured event caused by givernment/intelligence/77 brigade/13 signals.

Just a hunch. No evidence. But I would make a bet in it.

64630 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Basics, 6, #207 of 1094 🔗

I don’t know about the toilet paper, but I couldn’t get damn eggs anywhere for a week or so, and I have three eggs for breakfast everyday; luckily, becuase I eat so much, I usually have about 24 spare and a lot of 12 that I’m eating through, but I did get close to having just three at one time before I managed to replenish… #firstworldproblems

64634 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to IMoz, 1, #208 of 1094 🔗

Stand up for eggs!

64647 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to IMoz, 2, #209 of 1094 🔗

My butcher explained it all to me, there was a demand outstripping supply issue – eggs went up 5% overnight, haven’t come down. Eggs and flour I can understand the shortage. I may be wrong though. But the central core story of lickdown being a big giggle over toilet rolls? Not buying that, the event had too many positive aspects for the lockingdown priciples. Not least it served to dustract the nation about what was really happening.

Only opinion. But I know I’m right!

65074 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Basics, #210 of 1094 🔗

Funnily enough, while the supermarkets had no eggs, once I managed to get to the butchers’ on time (the local market shut at stupid time) they had so many eggs they had no idea what to do with them!

64637 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Basics, 4, #211 of 1094 🔗

Mostly manufactured by the newspapers IMO. Almost all of them had articles about the need to stock up before I had heard a thing elsewhere about loo rolls!

64640 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to IanE, 1, #212 of 1094 🔗

My reply to people about it at the time was along the lines of “well, if you run out of loo roll, you can always just wash yourself, it’s not like you’re gonna run out of water; and if you do run out of water, how are you going to flush?..”

64886 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, 1, #213 of 1094 🔗

Somehow my grandparents survived before toilet paper was invented.
Mind you their outside loo took the newspaper squares no problem. Imagine what that would do to today’s sewage systems!

64692 ▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Basics, 5, #214 of 1094 🔗

No, I think this triggered it…

64777 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to PoshPanic, #215 of 1094 🔗

ha ha

64712 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 5, #216 of 1094 🔗

It started in SW3, SW7, SW5 and SW10. First it was removing little Jacinta and Felix from school, then it was nice Mrs Smith-Brown, the teacher who was so brave to spend the entirety of the ER protest on Waterloo Bridge (weather wasn’t always very nice, and at one point they ran out of mung beans, until the nice Arch Bishop stepped in), who felt it appropriate to self-isolate when she sensed – in a Greta sense – a sniffle in the air. Then it was loo rolls at the Waitrose near Gloucester Road. Before long, the cash machines on the King’s Road were all empty. The rest is all history, as they say.

64795 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Basics, 4, #217 of 1094 🔗

Didn’t the govt themselves tell us to ensure we had at least 2 weeks’ food supply in the house, so that we could self-isolate and not leave the house if we developed symptoms? That will have terrified people into thinking we would be welded into our houses Chinese-style and left to starve to death…

64879 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #218 of 1094 🔗

It was because subconsciously the public knew there was a shitstorm coming.

64635 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #219 of 1094 🔗

Mass buying of incinerators by the government will probably be the next big thing! Oh, and I have a feeling that a totalitarian government has made some use of incinerators in the past.

64875 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, #220 of 1094 🔗

Ah but we have hand gel and dettol wipes nowadays!

65255 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Harry hopkins, #221 of 1094 🔗

We used to have an incinerator in our backyard. Everybody had one. That was Southern California in the 40s 50s and 60s.

64617 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #222 of 1094 🔗

https://is.cdc.go.kr/upload_comm/syview/doc.html?fn=159118745823700.pdf&rs=/upload_comm/docu/0030/

This is the important Korean document about problems with PCR pos without being infectious. This document is in English but not very good editing or easy read (I often find this in Asian publications no disrespect meant) but there are some startling things in there. The Korean seems to do a lot of viral isolation of SARS-Cov2 which seems to be very seldom done here in Western countries. You would think viral isolation would be of paramount value in case you want to send a person back to school etc. and many other uses.
I think the weakest link in the mass hysteria and mass testing is the actual PCR test. How reliable is it? Can you use it for isolation purposes on its own? Shouldn’t virus isolation be the gold standard for PCR tests? Why not virus isolation in unclear Covid-19 deaths?

64884 ▶▶ Willow, replying to swedenborg, 2, #223 of 1094 🔗

This, right here is the key to undoing the entire scamdemic.

64932 ▶▶ ted, replying to swedenborg, 3, #224 of 1094 🔗

My reading of the report is that after having a confirmed bout with an infection, and isolating for two weeks, a number of people retest positive on PCR. But there is no evidence of an active virus and no evidence of them infecting others. File this under RNA residue that PCR picks up after a successful immune response? Suggests to me that a lot of the “new” cases showing up in this unprecedented PCR test bonanza (now about 1 million test results per day in the US) is basically picking up RNA debris from the first and only outbreak in the US in the spring. This makes sense given we have not yet seen any increase in total mortality for June, when cases went to unprecedented levels and as testing was expanded to include anyone who wants one or needs one to work.

65259 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to ted, #225 of 1094 🔗

THIS. In the same way they literally have no idea if the PCR test is detecting leftover corona or current corona. They literally have no idea if someone with no antibodies actually was exposed, but innately immune for some reason and didn’t need to produce any. We won’t get started on the pissible detection of ANY ol corona rather than cov-2 specifically. They have no idea about anything and the more they test, the LESS of an idea they have. The tests give a totally false sense of what is going on (or not going on 😉 ).

64618 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 18, #226 of 1094 🔗

It was planned that Comrade Shapps had landed in Spain yesterday before the ”essential travel only” + 14 day quarantine diktat was announce, as a PR illusion that ‘we are all in this together”.

In reality;
He and his family get their holiday, unlike many who have had their holidays ruined.
He will have his full payed job to return to and can ‘work’ from his large home and garden – unlike many who will lose their jobs.

But at least the irrationally scared bedwetters can feel safer….

and that a ‘something that must be done’ has been done by a decisive Dominic government

64698 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Major Panic, 3, #227 of 1094 🔗

How many other MPs escaped before the announcement? We all need to be very alert to any hints of hypocrisy, phones ready on camera mode!

65012 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Major Panic, 1, #228 of 1094 🔗

Wonder where he is staying? I do hope for his sake that it’s nowhere near me!

64624 PowerCorrupts, #229 of 1094 🔗

Here is a you tube of Zed Phoenix, govote.org who wants to legally challenge the cov 19 Health Passport mentioned below, and which is horrifying in its implications:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDvHhgpz1Ig

Here’s the link to crowdjustice to fund the case:its up to 15K + currently:
https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/join-the-legal-challenge-to-st/

64629 IanE, replying to IanE, 6, #230 of 1094 🔗

As for Matt Ridley, well, I have to say that it looks as though he is now approaching senility. He has made a career out of being an optimist, often correctly (e.g. over the asinine global warming scam), but I am afraid that, like Booker towards the end, he has completely lost his hold on reality. The Telegraph article could, for heaven’s sake, have been written by de Pfeffel Johnson and shows that Ridley has roughly zero insight into what is now happening in the UK (and elsewhere).

64691 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to IanE, 1, #231 of 1094 🔗

He’s reverted to Northern Rock days!!

64743 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to IanE, 3, #232 of 1094 🔗

I was also seriously unimpressed by this article on first reading. I thought he’s missing the point – it doesn’t matter if the virus will soon be over, the real nightmare is society’s (and the government’s) response to it, and that just seems to be going from bad to worse.

However, if read from a non-sceptic perspective, of someone fearful of catching/spreading the virus and terrified of a second wave, the article does a good job of pointing out some of the positive findings and developments of the last month or so. But I suspect the Telegraph (one of the more sceptical and critical papers, if not very consistently so) isn’t the best place to get this message out to the wider public. Reading an article like this on the BBC’s website (some chance!) might actually give me hope.

64643 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #233 of 1094 🔗

Worth a reminder, for folk who might not feel confident making a stand against muzzles, there is good info here:

http://laworfiction.com/2020/07/face-covering-litigation-threats-and-administrative-headache/

Do click on the Toolkit link.

64741 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #234 of 1094 🔗

Thank you, I found that very useful.

64945 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #235 of 1094 🔗

This is excellent. It might be worth putting printed copies through some shop letter boxes (after dark?)

65320 ▶▶ Catherine123, replying to Sam Vimes, #236 of 1094 🔗

Thats really interesting, a friend works in a supermarket and she served a customer who wasn’t wearing a face mask and the next customer told her off for not challenging him. She told him it wasn’t her job to police customers. He apologised tbf but I’ll send her this as the personal liability bit is quite worrying.

64646 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 13, #237 of 1094 🔗

Considering that the NHS appears to be fully capable the logical thing to do is open it all up.

But then logic does not come into it when it appears that interested parties are pushing for a vaccine.

In my mind I’m thinking how do we do a force majeure on Parliment and remove the lot. This is a prime opportunity to change. Things like:

Remove hate speech laws (yes even that Iman will get to spout what he likes)
Simplify tax (threshold + 10% for PAYE – Corp tax at 5% up to 10% for up to 2 million then up to 10 million and above)
Remove inheritence tax
Stmp duty to 0.1%
Remove IR35
Remove 16 hr cap on people on benefits who can work part time
Stop all funding of climate schemes – only fund out of standard research budget

Cut the public sector in half – temporary unemployment yes, but then people will have more money, businesses will have more money = larger private sector.

There’s more but you get the picture. Is this the opportunity for once to have ourselves a proper free market economy?

64651 ▶▶ James H, replying to mhcp, 13, #238 of 1094 🔗

I have thought for a while that one of the underlying reasons for the rationing (via telephone triage, if one can get that far at all with the GP) of health services is that a much lower level of provision will be seen as the new norm. I cannot envisage a return of health services to the status quo ante. Call me a cynic, but it looks like one effective way of pruning costs in years to come.

64788 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to James H, 2, #239 of 1094 🔗

Definitely. Prior to this, our GP was already only allowing access via telephone triage, and bigging themselves up as being one of the first in the country to do so. They are dead pleased about it all now of course, as they haven’t had to change anything much for covid apart from allowing even fewer people to physically access the surgery than before. Telephone triage access was already planned across the country, covid will just speed up the implementation. I don’t think any GPs will go back to how they were before, ever again.

64835 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to James H, 3, #240 of 1094 🔗

My friend is a GP. They only see a small number of patients the rest are phone consultations. And she likes it. She said that it is going to be like that now. I am so angry about it.
She also told me that all locums are gone as not needed any more.

65095 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to JulieR, 3, #241 of 1094 🔗

Then she isn’t a very good GP. To be fair, most aren’t.

64663 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mhcp, 4, #242 of 1094 🔗

Taxpayers Alliance make the same arguments plus more.

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com

but they are fighting an uphill struggle same as the sceptics as it does not follow the narrative of control every facet of life. having spare cash means they ahem less control over you, be a debt slave with no spare cash each month and you are controlled very effectively.

64683 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to mhcp, 3, #243 of 1094 🔗

Additionals:

Public sector pensions – cap at ‘average wage’ for any employee.

Redundancies – payment capped at statutory redundancy pay irrespective of contract terms (negotiated by Common Purpose ‘mates’ for those in the upper echelons).

64693 ▶▶ James007, replying to mhcp, 3, #244 of 1094 🔗

Our tax system is insane. Every new government makes it more complicated with new rules, exceptions and exemptions.

Inheritance tax is just one of many taxes that make no sense, because wealther people wrap their assets up in trust funds and use deeds of variation to move assets around. Plus the family home exception which discourages older people in big houses from downsizing. If we kept IHT we ought to make it low, around 2% of all assets and remove loopholes and exceptions.
I dont understand employer NI contributions (employers could just buy insurance to ensure sick pay, mat leave etc.. is covered). Why we still separate income tax and NI also make no sense.

If only we had a Conservative government with a large majority.

64648 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 21, #245 of 1094 🔗

The reason Project V-Fear is working so well, is people like this; this is a tweet on Simon Dolan’s page:

Those who wilfully and ignorantly don’t wear a mask (genuine medical exemptions not included) are technically at the very least and potentially commuting culpable manslaughter. If you want to go down that route.

So, that would be just about the whole population, back in Feb/March, then?

64650 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #246 of 1094 🔗

Sound very 77th that quote.

64653 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 4, #247 of 1094 🔗

Either that or just sheer fuckwittery. But then, is there a difference?

64677 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #248 of 1094 🔗

Yes. Fuckwits do it for free, we are paying the 77th Brigade and 13th Signals to wage war on us.

64682 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #249 of 1094 🔗

Sound financial analysis, madam.

64687 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sam Vimes, #250 of 1094 🔗

Thanks. I’m feeling stroppy today, especially about the Shropshire village shop (ShropshireLass). Our village shop is run by a moron so will probably be doing the same. I haven’t dared check yet.

64718 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ They dont like it up 'em, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #251 of 1094 🔗

Where in Shropshire are you? I am in ironbridge and which is the shop!

64652 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #252 of 1094 🔗

But according to that logic people with exemptions are also committing manslaughter…they could self isolate rather than go out unmasked. These Mad Maskers are incapable of rational thought.

64656 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to OKUK, 2, #253 of 1094 🔗

They have decided, all by themselves, that because we now have to wear masks, it must have got worse.

64919 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #254 of 1094 🔗

Waasn’t that the idea?

64893 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to OKUK, #255 of 1094 🔗

Incapable of thought and any application.

64918 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #256 of 1094 🔗

Lack of oxygen!

64655 ▶▶ James H, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #257 of 1094 🔗

It is for responses like that that I have detwittered myself. The level of mindbendingly dim drivel offered in response to common sense was disappointing in the extreme. All power to Mr Dolan, but he must have a thicker skin than me.

64658 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #258 of 1094 🔗

Rewind bsck to the top. Press the Flu button. Then press play. What you will find is that by those new rules we all have all beibg causing manslaughter throughout human history. Including each and every granny the government shit-weasles arrogantly soeak about me personally killing.

Their rewiring of social fabric is as limp as an old lettuce leaf in st gretas fridge. It takes no thought whatsoever to see they are on undefendable ground.

64681 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Basics, 14, #259 of 1094 🔗

Absolutely right. When people have accused me of “literally killing vulnerable people” I’ve replied asking them how many times they have gone to work or visited family knowing they had a cold or flu or stomach bug. All those elderly people who die each year of flu or bronchitis or a cold which turned to pneumonia clearly caught it from someone. How many people have they killed over the years? Usually shuts them up – at least for a bit.

64702 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #260 of 1094 🔗

You are not wrong Aw dragon. Just to remphasise my point. These ‘vulnerable old dears’ have all been killers in their day… according to this new corona logic. It is untenable.

65271 ▶▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Basics, #261 of 1094 🔗

Actuallt, the last granny I killed had ready killed 35 other grannies, so I might have done the world a favour . .
(ad absurdium, for the sensitive among us)

64672 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #262 of 1094 🔗

Or indeed last week!

64674 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #263 of 1094 🔗

Guess who patrols Twitter? We pay their wages….

64911 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #264 of 1094 🔗

Like to see them prove manslaughter.

64913 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #265 of 1094 🔗

In that case we should definitely all be banned from driving in case we knock someone down by accident.

64999 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sam Vimes, #266 of 1094 🔗

She got fully slammed for her words, I saw her tweet and thought I had to read the responses!

64649 OKUK, 7, #267 of 1094 🔗

The UnHerd video was excellent. So refreshing to hear intelligent rational considered discussion – no longer available on BBC, ITV or Sky.

64654 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 43, #268 of 1094 🔗

Just returned from going out for the first time determined to break the law, which I did more than once. Broken the law before, there are that many now you cannot help breaking at least one of them once out and about but I’ve never deliberately set out to do it but enough was enough.

Wife felt the same and actually wore her not brainwashed badge for the first time ever and she was feeling quite militant.

Some of today’s high/low lights:

  • at the mostly outdoor area garden centre we were only one’s unmuzzled. 2 staff at door said hello but no challenge.
  • went to coffee shop, asked if we were eat-in or take away. Said we were sitting at the outside tables so eat-in, staff said that was fine to be unmasked in the queue but if we had answered take away we would have had to wear one. I asked how was the virus that intelligent that it could tell if I was eating in or taking away to which I got some strange looks.
  • went to Hobbycraft, only ones unmuzzled, no challenge from staff none of whom wore PPE. Asked one how did a virus know they were staff and I was a customer so knew who to infect, again strange looks.
  • While lurking around my wife found me and got me to go and speak to a couple of 50ish women and a 5ish child who were all in distress with the masks as they had seen her without one and went over to speak to her. I explained the exemptions, they were in obvious distress and could not breath so could remove it, dangers of healthy people wearing masks and so on – they took them off, said they never even knew there were exemptions and so on. Pointed them towards here to start following the leads and info.
  • While this was ongoing you could see others listening in and a few were then pulling down masks as we walked away.
  • At the antiques and crafts centre (junk shops really) was challenged, wife said exempt and the woman said “OK, I’m not challenging, just reminding”. Next place the man said “masks required”. Wife said exempt. He said there ere not any. She said yes there were and we were not required to justify ourselves to him. He was bit gobsmacked but we wanted to buy a couple of stone garden ornaments totalling £130 so he soon came running. He tried to talk to me but as he was behind me and I’m pretty deaf (true and have so much inner ear damage and also to my nerves so even the fancy nerve induction hearing aids do not work on me) I never answered but wife did and got my attention. She told him I had to lip read to get the main points so if she was not there with me he had better be ready to unmask, he said that was not possible so her answer was a classic – expect a big fine under disability discrimination charges, from £5000 I think a time – his answer was not one of the stall holders and even thought of that so they had better read up on the laws before they get screwed.

The worst thing about it all as the palpable fear in people’s eyes. They would not look you in the face, would not speak and would swerve out the way like you were a leper and those who were making their young children wear masks were the worst offenders.

Another frightening thing is the lack of independent research people and done to question what was going on, what is being churned out in the MSM and so on. Just swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

Best things were seeing people lower their masks once you had walked past them or heard us talking to those women in distress and removed their own and their children’s muzzles. When we were sitting having a coffee a family of 6 came past, parents late 20s/early 30s kids all under about 8, all in matching muzzles and I said out loud “it’s a shame to see the kids all masked up when they are that young and exempt, what are the parents thinking of?”. The dad turned and looked at me and I stared at him with raised eyebrows as if to say yes, you want to discuss it? Head down, look at floor, wife pulls his arm, slink off.

Those few who we did eventually see unmuzzled would look at you direct and sort of give a knowing smile like a secret signal between conspirators.

64660 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 16, #269 of 1094 🔗

The worst thing about it all was the palpable fear in people’s eyes.

But masks are meant to inspire confidence in shoppers, surely?

64675 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #270 of 1094 🔗

It’s not working.

Must be another one to add to the law of unintended but totally bleeding obvious consequences list.

Lawmakers seem to make a lao to these.

64680 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #271 of 1094 🔗

The unintended (or is it?) consequence here, AG, is that the plebs have decided it must have got worse, because we have to wear masks now. Taken on its own, that’s not an unreasonable reaction. But of course if they looked at the facts….

64909 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #272 of 1094 🔗

Funniest joke of 2020?

64926 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #273 of 1094 🔗

Is that what Wankock said? Must be the opposite then.

64661 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #274 of 1094 🔗

Great post. Good day’s work!

64701 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #275 of 1094 🔗

thanks for your stories AG – it’s truly terrifying what this is doing to people and society. You’re right people do no independent research to think outside the official narrative. Frightening we are such a compliant society.

64711 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Awkward Git, 12, #276 of 1094 🔗

I asked how was the virus that intelligent that it could tell if I was eating in or taking away

Genius! Why has no one asked Handjob or Boris this?

64874 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #277 of 1094 🔗

I’ve found the wariness between people with and without masks distressing. How many years will it take to remake friendships – I’ve lost several since March. I haven’t come across anger/confrontation (yet) – pretty aggressive reading of exempt badge from a chemist person today (collecting a medication on behalf of my friend who can’t get to see a GP in person to look at her leg – so several 111 calls yesterday and nice GP did call back). But it is an uncomfortable experience.

64929 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #278 of 1094 🔗

Good work!

64936 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #279 of 1094 🔗

There needs to be a pro disability/mask exempt leafleting campaign outside all supermarkets.

64657 ShropshireLass, replying to ShropshireLass, 32, #280 of 1094 🔗

Do Lockdown Sceptic members think the following is a discriminatory practice? As a person with 2 hidden disabilities, personally I do.

Shops in my local village have put up signs on their doors or shop front windows saying if you are exempt from wearing a mask, to let the staff know and they will bring items outside to you and take your payment!

To me, this a) denies those who are exempt from browsing and be able to choose products from the range themselves, b) makes them stay outside in inclement weather when everyone else is permitted inside, c) removes some element of independence and d) makes them feel even more second class citizens. If we cannot go inside to raise the awareness of staff that we are there or take our place in the queue, how will we attract attention or indicate our place in the queue? Some counters are at the side or far end of the shops so how can this effectively work in practice?

64664 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to ShropshireLass, 16, #281 of 1094 🔗

They are saying “If you are disabled, you can’t come in”. Bang to rights. Have a look here:

http://laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

64679 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #282 of 1094 🔗

Wow – thank you Sam Vines. Have downloaded and saved to my computer. There was a copy of one of the notices taken at the door of the local newsagents posted on out village FB group this morning. Lots of people had already commented it was a really helpful notice. I queried it saying it could actually be perceived as discriminatory by those of us who were exempt due to a hidden disability. Did not receive a single comment saying oh dear they hadn’t thought of that angle. Instead lots of replies saying the shopkeepers were being helpfull and only a few could possibly read the notices any other way, or the notices were a good thing and designed to keep people safe so reading things into it that were not there was essentially either stupid or being deliberately awkward. Basically in a single stroke taking us back to the pre disability discrimination law days.

64684 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to ShropshireLass, 10, #283 of 1094 🔗

It stinks. Burn ’em down! Whoops, Biker mode 🙂

64686 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #284 of 1094 🔗

.

64694 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #285 of 1094 🔗

If looking for noncinfrontstional way of raising in village shop. A version of the rules abd regs might mysteriously be sellotaped to the outside of the door near to the shop’s sign. But think through implication if you then need to challenge in person later. Just a possible tactic.

65077 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ShropshireLass, #286 of 1094 🔗

I think a letter from the Citizen’s Advice Bureau is necessary – are they open?

64666 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to ShropshireLass, 10, #287 of 1094 🔗

That needs to be challenged under Equality Act 2010, surely?

64667 ▶▶ Tking, replying to ShropshireLass, 7, #288 of 1094 🔗

Outrageous, and discrimination, they have no empathy or thought for anyone who has a disability. I think the goverment need to do more to tell shop owners to make allowances for people who cant wear a mask.

64669 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to ShropshireLass, 3, #289 of 1094 🔗

Going to print up and carry with em a few copies of this from the laworfiction website:

http://laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

64696 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #290 of 1094 🔗

Soon we will have to carry all kinds of documents in our briefcases like Barristers.

64713 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to richard riewer, 4, #291 of 1094 🔗

In preparation for the authorities to demand our “papers, please.”

64732 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #292 of 1094 🔗

that will be the “immunity passport” / digital id that they are preparing and you have to have on you to access shops/travel etc…

64908 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #293 of 1094 🔗

No, ‘writ, please, why are you sueing us?’
So tell them.

65810 ▶▶▶ MRG, replying to Awkward Git, #294 of 1094 🔗

In Stage 4 explaining one’s health condition would it be OK to state:
“I’m presently suffering from Covid-19, so I’m unable to breathe properly wearing a mask” ?

64671 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to ShropshireLass, 14, #295 of 1094 🔗

They are fools and are Wrong wrong and wrong this comes directly under the disability discrimination act.

64688 ▶▶ Sue, replying to ShropshireLass, 10, #296 of 1094 🔗

challenge it with the local authorities. What they’re saying is ‘no disabled allowed’ – it’s discrimination.

64695 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to ShropshireLass, 7, #297 of 1094 🔗

Discrimination.

64753 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to ShropshireLass, 8, #298 of 1094 🔗

100% discrimination. Sue their asses.

64779 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to ShropshireLass, 10, #299 of 1094 🔗

What they’re actually saying is “I f you are disabled or have a medical condition, let the staff know and they will bring items outside to you and take your payment!

Another good way to judge the statement is to replace the words “ Exempt from wearing a mask ” with that of a race or religion.

So, yes it is very much is discriminatory practice, and probably falls foul to the Equalities Act 2010.

64842 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to JohnB, 5, #300 of 1094 🔗

Good point about replacing with race or religion – might add that to the increasingly angry comments from villagers to me questioning the notices on the grounds that it is discriminatory. One villager responded with a comment saying it is the shopkeepers way of being helpful and what is the problem with putting on a mask for just a few minutes if I want to browse! It got lots of likes, sadly. Clearly has no idea of what effects some disabilities have on some people e.g. can induce a panic attack for someone who has had a traumatic experience of their face being covered in the past (not mine but an example listed on MIND’s website). When I explained about some mental health disabilities someone even added a laughing face. I guess in medieval times I would probably have been grabbed by the villagers, tied to a ducking stool and dropped into the river?

64830 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to ShropshireLass, 8, #301 of 1094 🔗

Basically they are saying “we want to discriminate but we also want your money”.

Fuck them. Go elsewhere.

65075 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #302 of 1094 🔗

That’s appalling discrimination. Definitely illegal!

65079 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #303 of 1094 🔗

That’s appalling and agree, its illegal and discriminatory.

64659 stec, #304 of 1094 🔗

In Spain, returning to UK in a couple of weeks (driving via france and tunnel). Does anyone know the legality of these newly announced 14 day self-isolation decree. Is it guidance/advise/law? Is it just for airbridge travellers?

64665 DentArthurDent, #305 of 1094 🔗

The Anders Tegnell interview is a gem. If you haven’t watched it in full, I really recommend it. A real breath of fresh air.

64678 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 15, #306 of 1094 🔗

Just got back from my local Tescos. Walked straight in unchallenged. Sadly, excluding kids, there were only about 5 unmuzzled and 1 of those was clearly retarded (so presumably exempt). No issues at all. Did see some sort of altercation outside between a muzzled old woman and an unmuzzled man. Couldn’t hear what was being said but I suspect she might have been giving him grief for being unmuzzled.

64689 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Chicot, -8, #307 of 1094 🔗

Classy comment. Do better please and don’t insult those less fortunate than yourself.

64709 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to hotrod, 12, #308 of 1094 🔗

WTF? I was not using the word as a insult. I was using it in it’s proper meaning.

64690 ▶▶ Catherine Young, replying to Chicot, 1, #309 of 1094 🔗

I’ve just returned from our local Tesco. I flashed my exemption card and got inside with no problem, in fact the Tesco employee appeared almost reverential, perhaps because every other customer inside the shop had allowed themselves to be muzzled. Disappointing, but I hope my unmasked status was noted by others and could be a trend setter.

64906 ▶▶ annie, replying to Chicot, 1, #310 of 1094 🔗

I think ‘retarded’ needs re-defining.

65009 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to annie, 4, #311 of 1094 🔗

Just because some people use the term “retard” as an insult, does not make calling someone who is clearly mentally retarded “retarded” an insult. I suppose I could have used “mentally disabled” but, quite frankly, I find all this outrage over using a word by it it’s correct dictionary definition ridiculous.

64685 Tking, replying to Tking, 21, #312 of 1094 🔗

I was in Farnborough in Hampshire this morning, I would say almost 100% mask wearing. People mostly wearing them on their chin or around their neck, until they get in the shop when they pull them up, or storing them in a pocket or bag, so basically wearing a disgusting dirty petri dish on their face full of bacteria and god knows what, that they are then breathing in directly, lets hope this does not do a Spain and put our infection rates up. Most people have not got a clue about how to wear their useless mask hygenically.

I went in to several shops with no issues, only saw 2 other people not wearing masks. Day to day 100% of the people I talk to think it is a waste of time, but are complying as they dont want trouble. I find it unbeliveable that people, anyone with a brain, believes that this will do anything at all, when all the evidence shows the virus is so small these masks will not work, and they dont think about all the dirt they are putting onto the mask by fiddling with it.

Will I be going out to the shops again?, I dont think so, it’s internet all the way from now on, I dont think I can face another depressing trip, and to see that people are so easily led if Boris told them the sky was green with glittery pink dots I think they would believe him.

64705 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Tking, #313 of 1094 🔗

Did you happen to visit the Asda in Farnborough? Sometimes shop there and it’d be handy to know if I can expect any grief.

64715 ▶▶▶ Tking, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 3, #314 of 1094 🔗

I didnt go in there unfortunately, my experience in Farnborough in general was people just minding their own business, I didn’t get any abuse, or strange looks at all surprisingly.

64754 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Tking, 3, #315 of 1094 🔗

Farnborough is very local to me + I’ve seen very high mask compliance as well. Wonder how long it’ll last though. The novelty will soon wear off, especially when people are thinking it’ll be just for a few weeks + realise the legislation is 12 months + a review after 6…

64828 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to kbeanie, 6, #316 of 1094 🔗

Exactly. I think the novelty will wear off very quickly (especially in boiling August). As more and more people stop wearing them, more and more will….stop wearing them ☺ Gradually we will see the whole country ignoring this law.

I also think the gvt. are counting on this. They made the law- it’s not their fault if people disobey ! But they will pull Gove’s ‘common sense’ comment out of their arses whenever challenged in order to ingratiate themselves with the rule breaking public once again – “the wisdom of the people cannot be denied” 😏

64699 Melangell, #317 of 1094 🔗

Living in gwlag Wales where masks have not (yet) been foisted upon us, my main act of civil disobedience is to refuse to use the chemical goop mandated at numerous shops. I carry with me a home made spritzer of eucalyptus oil in water and if anyone looks like they’re going to object, call out gaily, “I have my own!” before marching into the shop. Fools the Nazi cow at my local farm shop every time. It’s clear she doesn’t like it but doesn’t know what to do…!

64703 ambwozere, 3, #318 of 1094 🔗

Here’s another mask petition that needs support, against mandatory masks in schools for children. Apologies if it’s already been posted but in case anyone wants to sign.

http://chng.it/Hk9wrK7q8K

64704 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 21, #319 of 1094 🔗

Well, I finally did it: wore a mask. I had to go to Tesco.

It was one of those paper things, and the only way I could bear to wear it was to cut two large windows in the sides. Technically it did just about “cover my mouth and nose” but had somewhat better ventilation.

I had been dreading it – the humiliation. As I reached the entrance I strapped the disgusting thing around my ears, assuming that the woman on the door wouldn’t let me in otherwise.

After a couple of minutes, I saw a man without a mask and the staff not concerned in the slightest. Phew. I quickly pulled mine down as a chin strap. And then I saw a really interesting-looking, stylish woman, probably about 40, completely maskless. I have to say that the effect of seeing the woman’s face amongst all the mouthless zombies, and knowing that she isn’t a conformist and has a spark of individuality made her very attractive indeed…

After a few minutes I yanked my mask off in disgust. I felt self-conscious, but no one said anything or, as far as I know, gave me funny looks. However, it has to be noted that I only saw three maskless people out of probably a hundred: one man and two (lovely, interesting, non-conformist) women.

One thing I wasn’t prepared for: just how bl**dy awful it is to wear one of these things. After only about two minutes in a modified one, I was sweating and feeling breathless, and its effect on peripheral vision was disturbing. Even as a chin strap it was extremely irritating. When I took the thing off, I was trembling. A note to shops: some proportion of your customers are going to hate wearing a mask with a passion. They’re not going to want to hang around browsing in your shop if you force them to wear one, so you should not make a song and dance about it. Tesco were fine: the person on the checkout chatted to me and never said a word about the lack of a mask.

64714 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #320 of 1094 🔗

Just self identify as exempt.

64719 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #321 of 1094 🔗

But I don’t want to comply. My modified mask was the way I kept some vestige of dignity through a tiny rebellion without, hopefully any confrontation. If I have to plead fake disability, I’m just playing Bozo’s game.

64722 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Barney McGrew, 20, #322 of 1094 🔗

If anyone asks (which they don’t) you can honestly claim a very rare psychological condition: sanity.

64727 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #323 of 1094 🔗

Don’t plead anything. Just do what is right.

64759 ▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Basics, 6, #324 of 1094 🔗

Agreed Basics. One doesn’t have to plead ANY disability, fake or not. Just say you are exempt! If you are asked, just say that any medical condition you have is between you and your doctor (one of the reasons why doctors haven’t been writing exemption letters), the person asking has no right whatsoever to know anything specific about any medical condition (unless YOU want them to know – I certainly don’t want to talk to anyone about my depression).

64817 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to DavidC, 5, #325 of 1094 🔗

You don’t even have to have a disability or a medical condition. One of the exemptions on the gov website says: ·        to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury, to yourself or others.

64824 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #326 of 1094 🔗

Precisely!

DavidC

64889 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ShropshireLass, 2, #327 of 1094 🔗

Risk of harm to others, eh?
If they cause me grief, that risk will be very real.

65093 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ShropshireLass, 2, #328 of 1094 🔗

And that includes falling because your peripheral vision is affected.

64764 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #329 of 1094 🔗

Whether you wore one or claimed exemption – that’s complying. The only non-compliance is to flat out refuse.

64854 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TyLean, 10, #330 of 1094 🔗

That’s an interesting question, which I’ve struggled with. Perhaps it will form the subject of the Moral Maze some day.

If you flat out refuse to say you are exempt, at least to a police officer, isn’t the shop then entitled to bar entry, and the police officer to fine if necessary? So you go home with no food, and at this stage no one cares very much. Surely this strategy needs a critical mass of people to be effective? And isn’t it apparent that thus far we haven’t got to that critical mass?

Now I don’t mind being devious and underhand. I’ll do anything I can to undermine this shit show, and I certainly don’t owe the perpetrators any truth. And just by going in the shop, unmuzzled, and showing others my face and that there is another way, I’m maybe in a small way making progress – at least more than if I’m barred entry and go on my way.

In fact, I haven’t been asked whether I’m exempt or not; it’s been enough that you don’t want to wear a mask. And the police are conspicuous by their absence (for which I think they deserve some credit – credit where credit is due).

So I’m still struggling with whether it’s moral or not to claim exempt, or just say nothing. I have an open mind, and in fact work on only one principle: anything that subverts and undermines this garbage is valid.

In fact I am genuinely exempt, because the thought of wearing one of those rags makes me want to throw up.

64892 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to TJN, 10, #331 of 1094 🔗

Your scruples do you credit, but I think you should go with your gut feeling, literally.
I have it as well. Even the sight of faceless zombies makes me nauseous.

65059 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to annie, 4, #332 of 1094 🔗

When it comes to this garbage I haven’t got any scruples – just undermine it however I can.

Yes, I know, the sight of all those faceless ghouls does unnerve me. But we do have to try to be brave and stick it out … Well not that brave really; they’re just the victims of government psyh-ops.

65098 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to TJN, 6, #333 of 1094 🔗

I am fearful that I will be unable to take the high road much longer. It’s seeing little kids in masks that absolutely lights me up in a rage. I could club their parents to death. Little, developing brains being systematically deprived oxygen! And taught to be terrified zombies.

No, government psy-op or not…. NOTHING exempts you from using your head when it comes to your babies. You don’t get to be a moron with impunity once you breed.

65293 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TyLean, 1, #334 of 1094 🔗

Yes, when I see children in muzzles my temper rises, and I find myself glaring at the parents. I’m trying to teach myself to make a flamboyant point of turning contemptuously away.

The other day at the entrance to the Apple store they were muzzling up two children in front of dad, and the girl on the door clocked my malevolent look. She recognises me whenever I walk by now, unmuzzled of course.

I’m not even going to take my two little uns to the shops, as I don’t want them to see the masked ghouls haunting what was once a centre of life and activity. The elder one especially (4) – I don’t know what she’d make of it and am sure would be bothered by it.

And the teaching unions are campaigning to make muzzles compulsory in secondary schools. Evil.

64897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to TJN, 3, #335 of 1094 🔗

The first thing is does the shop (or supermarket chain like Tesco) have have its own rule on entry with or without a mask (this has been left to the shops to decide their own rules)? If the shop has its own policy, for example, ‘We leave it to the individual to decide’ then no problem. If the shop has a ‘mask only’ policy then you could try entering the shop to see what happens (note that shop staff do not have to wear masks!). IF challenged, and you don’t want to wear a mask, you can either say ‘No, I don’t wish to wear one’ or ‘I’m exempt’. If the shop insists you wear one and you have said ‘No’ you can either leave or stand your ground, to which the shop MIGHT relent, after all it will be losing your business.

The actual LAW gets a bit tricky and I’m not sure I’ve got it right, HOWEVER my understanding is that the shop is private property and the police cannot arrest you without CRIMINAL cause and you have not done anything criminal – civil disobediance, if it breaks no criminal laws, is not arrestable (touch the police officer though and you might be arrested for preventing an office carrying out his duty). Also the police cannot arrest you if they have not been invited on to the shop’s (private) premises to do so, for which the staff have probably had to physically detain you and I don’t think they have a legal right to do so.

I did see a great article on this the other day which I think was a link from LockdownSceptics – unfirtunately (and rather stupidly!) I didn’t save the link.

I could qualify for three of the exemptions and I will carry a lanyard but I won’t display it until necessary. Certainly my local SPAR has been brilliant – I went there last night and had a chat with a couple of the staff and they were taking a very pragmatic view to it. Bless them!

DavidC

65064 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to DavidC, 5, #336 of 1094 🔗

On Friday we were sort of feeling our way, testing the water as it were. It’s clear now that the shops want nothing to do with this and will not bother you for not wearing a muzzle.

I’ve been watching the body language of the security guards when I enter shops unmuzzled. It’s clear that they are wary of it and have been instructed to stay clear, to leave well alone.

65097 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to TJN, #337 of 1094 🔗

I actually doubt that the police would be called to be honest. You could go down the “that is my personal business” route if asked, “are you exempt,” and whether yes or no, it is still your personal business. I doubt it would come to that, and yes – showing your face is very positive for people to see. The more who do it the better!

65099 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TyLean, 1, #338 of 1094 🔗

Yes, I’m sure that if there wasn’t any fracas – which I certainly wouldn’t instigate – then the police would not be involved.

But it is a bit depressing to see how few people are showing their faces, around here at least.

65089 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #339 of 1094 🔗

Your reaction to wearing the mask suggests severe anxiety to me. I’d say that makes you exempt according to the govt guidelines.

64723 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #340 of 1094 🔗

well done barney – i haven’t had to do a tesco/supermarket shop yet…not sure how i’m going to approach it. Yesterday popped into a store to grab a takeaway coffee and held my bandana roughly around the middle of my face – keeps slipping (oooh dear what a shame! 🙂
May just go into store with bandana and drop it once past the door attendant. But like you will feel self-conscious with people staring etc but whatever i do i do not want to conform so maybe my arab scarf or would like to wear a mask with writing eg “petri dish of germs” or “muzzled by muppets” or something.

64731 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Sue, 9, #341 of 1094 🔗

I wouldn’t worry too much Sue… I went to Asda (and quite a rough one) maskless and no one said anything to me. Same in The Range, and in B&Q. Not a word, nor a dirty look (unless they were behind my back!) Hopefully it only gets better too.

64822 ▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 4, #342 of 1094 🔗

My village is populated entirely by freaked out ill-informed brainwashed folk. All enthusiastically embracing and celebrating mask wearing (now it is mandatory, but for some odd reason they were a rare species before Friday). Did you read my comment about notices being displayed on local shop doors saying those exempt for medical reasons need to let staff know and the items they need will be brought outside to them and staff will collect payment outside too? Breaches both Equality Act 2010 and even the most recent government guidance (hastily updated when Disability Rights UK pointed out to them people had already been discriminated against when mask wearing was made mandatory on public transport.

64898 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to ShropshireLass, 4, #343 of 1094 🔗

Tell them that. Take a copy of the relevant legislation and show it to them. Point out the size of the fines for unlawful discrimination.
And shop elsewhere.

65260 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #344 of 1094 🔗

It’s the latest fashion craze. Soon there will be fashion models walking the catwalks, sporting the latest in designer masks. And they won’t be cheap!

64738 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sue, 6, #345 of 1094 🔗

sue give it a try, use any of the methods, lanyard, or just say you are not a mask wearer, tell people you have a condition which exempts you from wearing a face mask.

Try a local shop or two first, then move on to your supermarket.

You will feel so empowered.

64766 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Barney McGrew, 27, #346 of 1094 🔗

i was gonna be mean and say fuck sake just don’t wear a mask but after a harrowing few days of death and misery i’m feeling more compassionate and i say i’m happy you found the courage to tear off the mask and go about your business. I can somewhat appreciate the stress of standing up as a non mask wearer when all around are losing their minds. I hope you feel better about the whole thing and can return to normal.
Oh and while i’m feeling a generosity of spirt i apologise to those of us whom i may have been a dick to. It’s no excuse but i have had a terrible tragedy in my family and the milk of human kindness temporally left me, leaving me pathetically lashing out at strangers on this site who in all reality are decent people.

64769 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Biker, 9, #347 of 1094 🔗

Biker, we understand. We have known for some time through your postings about your best mate. No reason to apologise.

64786 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Biker, 7, #348 of 1094 🔗

These are tough times, we all react in different ways. Anger, temper, frustration, tears, depression . . . I’ve been through the lot. I’ve thrown things and shouted at people using abominable language (and I’m usually quite the Lady 😂 ) I really hope you are feeling a bit better Biker.

64883 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 7, #349 of 1094 🔗

Courageous post Biker. Sorry to hear about your troubles, which will hopefully pass soon, or at least appear in a different perspective. I’m afraid whether Wendy was hurt, as I haven’t seen her post for a bit. I hope she reads this and posts again soon.

Some of your ‘fuck this and fuck that, fucking all the fuck … ‘ posts are pure poetry.

64899 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to TJN, 1, #350 of 1094 🔗

Hear hear!

DavidC

64957 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to TJN, 3, #351 of 1094 🔗

i don’t even know who i insulted my mind was black. I hope wendy reads this and accepts my apology. I sincerely mean it.

65073 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 2, #352 of 1094 🔗

Hopefully she’s reading, or if someone knows her they will let her know.

And I hope you’re bike’s fixed!

65091 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 2, #353 of 1094 🔗

I should say that Friday was a difficult day here in England – there was a lot of tetchiness and nervousness in the posts here. But it’s all calming down now, as the flaws in this muzzle nonsense become clearer.

64902 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 5, #354 of 1094 🔗

Biker, we know you and we would never take you for anything but a stout comrade.
So sorry about your family tragedy. Bear up, we are with you.

64961 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 2, #355 of 1094 🔗

Cheers Annie. I’ve not lost anyone i love for nearly thirty years and it’s not something you now how you react. I hate change. Even selling a bike and buying another leaves me in a state of nervous tension. If i go to the shop and they don’t have the yogurt i like i just leave. My mrs reckons i’m an undiagnosed suffer of Aspergers. She may be right.

65258 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Biker, #356 of 1094 🔗
65301 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, #357 of 1094 🔗

My Mrs just says I’m weird. She probably is right.

64995 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Biker, 4, #358 of 1094 🔗

I had a year of huge personal tragedy in 2017 and had this happened then, I do not know how I could have made it through. It can be very difficult to apologise and I hugely respect your post and my thoughts are with you during this horrific time.

We all need to vent and this site would not the be same without you,

65007 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Biker, 3, #359 of 1094 🔗

You are my hero. Mind you, I’m a fictional character. Keep on keeping on, man.

65103 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Biker, 1, #360 of 1094 🔗

Forgiven, and likewise if I’ve said anything to upset you.

We’re all human and generosity of spirit is very hard to hold onto in this nonsense. I think we’ve probably all experienced this to some degree, and when you have a family tragedy on top of that, it’s starts becoming impossible. I’m sorry to hear about the family tragedy.

64922 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #361 of 1094 🔗

If retail wants to survive then it’s up to them to make it clear that they know there are people who are exempt.

65094 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #362 of 1094 🔗

This is a good read, how to totally derail any attempt to make you wear one or stop you from doing things without one. His them with this!

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings in a Relevant Place) (England) Regulations 2020

Notice of EXEMPTION from requirement to wear a face covering

http://laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

64716 Basics, 8, #363 of 1094 🔗

The Scot Gov witching hour as passed again and here are the results.
Figures from scot giv daily uodat page. Easy to search for.

Declines asunder.

Scottish numbers: 26 July 2020
4 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 0.2% of newly tested individuals.

0 new reported death(s) of people who have tested positive (noting that Register Offices are now generally closed at weekends)

2 people were in intensive care last night with confirmed COVID-19 (data from 24 July were used for NHS Dumfries & Galloway)

267 people were in hospital with confirmed COVID-19 (data from 24 July were used for NHS Dumfries & Galloway)

9,106 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results

As has been said before the positive tests are likely false positives. No explanation of what the positive means for the ‘customer’, illness, death or a left over fragment of a long conquered sniffle.

Hospital inpatients are droping at a rate of about 20 a day. Given most will have undelying issues this is not reflective of a battle won against covid19. Other factors may be keeping patients on wards and preventing discharges.

64717 TJN, replying to TJN, 25, #364 of 1094 🔗

A short story, if you can bear with me. I’m telling if from memory, as I read and heard about it many years ago.

The Isles of Scilly lie about 28 miles off Land’s End, the western tip of Cornwall. The channel between Scilly and the mainland is a busy shipping lane; but a notorious reef called the Seven Stones, covering some two square miles, lies towards the centre of the passage. The rocks here, rising steeply from deep water, are mainly submerged just below the surface, although some show just above the Atlantic waves, especially at low water. Many years ago I did a fair bit of diving out here. The underwater scenery is amazing, mind-blowing, but that’s another story.

One fine morning in March 1967 a massive oil tanker, the Torrey Canyon , was making the channel passage between Scilly and Land’s End, on its way to Milford Haven. The weather was clear, enabling bearings to be taken from Scilly and the mainland, and thus there was no objective navigational danger. But there was some form of dispute between the navigating officers as to which side of the Seven Stones to pass, with the result that the ship was heading straight towards the reef.

Working the Seven Stones that spring morning was a French crabbing boat – the reef was rich in lobsters, crabs and crayfish. The captain of the crabber looked to the south and saw the massive tanker bearing at cruise speed straight towards him. It seemed as if his puny boat would be crushed in the monster’s path. But he wasn’t bothered. Between him and the behemoth lay a line of rocks. It was now clear that, no matter what the tanker tried to do – change course, or go astern – it was too late. She couldn’t avoid going onto the rocks. So he told his fishing crew to stop work, come up from below decks where they were sorting the catch, mending pots and suchlike, and watch what was about to unfold. Incredible to behold, they knew they were witnessing a piece history in the making.

Sure enough, the Torrey Canyon came relentlessly on and piled into the rocks. Impaled as she was on the reef, there was nothing anyone could do to save her. Over the following days she broke up in the Atlantic seas and released her massive cargo of oil. The RAF did what they could, using bombs and rockets, and even napalm, to ignite the oil; but to no avail. The pollution was horrendous, far up into the English Channel. And of course, the French crabber’s fishing grounds were ruined for the foreseeable future. I hope they found another reef to work, but with the oil spread they must have struggled. The Torrey Canyon s broken plates lie scattered on the seabed today, the ship itself smashed to smithereens and entirely unrecognisable as anything but an underwater scrapyard.

If anyone has got this far, what I’m saying here is that we are like the crew of that little fishing boat, as the behemoth approaches. But it isn’t an oil tanker we are seeing bearing down on us; it’s the economy. It’s too late to do anything now. It is going onto the rocks and is going to break up, with appalling consequences. All we can do is sit back and watch as an historic catastrophe unfolds.

It’s a terrible spectacle to behold, but also one with a certain awesome beauty.

64725 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to TJN, 7, #365 of 1094 🔗

Beautiful piece of writing and a great analogy.

64829 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #366 of 1094 🔗

Thanks (already seen a couple of typos).

I’ve often told this story to friends over the years, as one of my wreck yarns. But I was struck the other day at how apt it seems now.

64734 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to TJN, 5, #367 of 1094 🔗

Yes TJN, it is certainly too late to prevent the inevitable economic collapse. October is coming hard and fast towards us. Signs of the inevitable in financial markets already, in my view.

64825 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #368 of 1094 🔗

The real horror is going to come when Mr Bailey tells Johnson that he’s stopping his spending money.

64768 ▶▶ RickH, replying to TJN, 8, #369 of 1094 🔗

Only difference is that this ‘Torrey Canyon’ has a mixed crew of narcissistic deviant psychopaths and simpletons who can see the reef but keep the bearing on the bow, because – to varying extents – (a) they don’t know much about navigation and rocks (b) they’re drunk (with power) (c) they don’t like being wrong and (d) they’ve got financial interests in wrecking the ship.

64834 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to RickH, 1, #370 of 1094 🔗

Pretty well spot on, although I’m not sure they can see the reef. Or at least they think that negative interest rates and more QE will procure wings to fly over it. I do wonder what Mr Bailey will have to say about that; from what I can gather he’s no lickspittle like Carney.

64720 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 17, #371 of 1094 🔗

I watched The Post last night (again), about the WaPo and the Pentagon Papers / Vietnam War. It struck me that this is kinda the same, having got themselves into it, the Gov (or in the case of Vietnam, successive governments) didn’t know how to get out of it, and didn’t want to be the one to ‘lose the war’. The McNamara Report made it plain that they knew they couldn’t win, that they were lying to the American people, that they kept on sending boys to die knowing it was a disaster, but they kept on lying, talking about making progress, defeating communism etc etc. They even commissioned the McNamara Report for ‘posterity’ so that the war could be understood with the benefit of ‘hindsight’ – it was never intended to be leaked or read until it and they were long gone.

I know a Tory grandee, he keeps telling me re Lockdown ‘it’s just politics’ and all recrimination and analysis will have to be done in retrospect.

Like the war, I think until the press start asking some serious questions, and young people start getting angry about their future being robbed, we’re in this for the long haul. A bit like Weapons of Mass Destruction and the War on Terror, nobody was ready to look at that critically until it was over. And even now we rewrite history and entirely blame Tony Blair, when let’s be honest, apart from Cook and Short, everyone else was eagerly credulous, including the opposition and the press.

64728 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 2, #372 of 1094 🔗

Very interesting BecJT. I’m still hoping one of the Cabinet will grow a pair and do a Robin Cook (Therese Coffey, in my view, best placed given her background). I cannot understand how any ‘doctor’ can carry this on much longer, though. They are neither politicians nor part of industrial-military complex, unless you extend that term to cover Big Pharma, the latter of which would pull in some, but not all of the protagonists.

64765 ▶▶ Humanity First, replying to BecJT, 2, #373 of 1094 🔗

“I won’t beat about the bush. The West is inhabited by two groups: those who know that we are ruled by sociopaths, by the criminally insane[ 1 ]; and that much larger group which, taking at face value the surface forms of democracy informed by independent media , either cannot or will not accept this admittedly frightening truth.

This second group, seemingly unaware of how extreme our assiduously normalised world order is, deems the first a melting pot of extremism. Such a view has advantages for those who value a quiet life. No need to listen to, far less engage with, a word that first group says.”

https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/26/three-new-reads-july/

65162 ▶▶ matt, replying to BecJT, 2, #374 of 1094 🔗

For a while now, I’ve had this really troubling thought in the back of my head – now that they _know_ how can they possibly not do something drastic to correct everything? How can they be venal and narcissistic enough to keep, ploughing the furrow?

And then, this morning, an even more troubling thought occurred to me – maybe the _don’t_ know. And that’s frighteningly possible.

What we’ve seen of SAGE in the media tells us that either they have entirely bought into to the idea that this is the Black Death born again or they’re desperately pretending they do (for whatever reasons). Why would they be telling the cabinet any different? Are they even talking to SAGE anymore? Is it just this joint biosecurity group now? In which case, they’ve been given a single job to do – monitoring the progress of the virus in the country. They’re not going to question the basic narrative

Do we honestly think Johnson et al are troubling themselves with going off and doing their own research in the evening? Maybe they genuinely do believe Lockdown prevented an apocalypse – if all you listened to was SAGE and the mainstream media then you would absolutely believe (as many, many do) that non-lockdown countries have subjected themselves to a disaster. Dissenting articles (the very few of them that there are) can easily be dismissed – and they are regularly dismissed – as the work of nut jobs and crazed libertarians. Why do we think that the cabinet are actually being given any information that disagrees with this? And why do we think they have actually gone out looking for it for themselves?

And by the way, before I’m jumped on for this… I’m not making excuses for them. This would make it worse, because it’s the complete failure of the entire system: the responsibility of the executive to be informed on the issues; the responsibility of parliament (and especially the opposition) to challenge the executive; the responsibility of the civil service to inform; the responsibility of the scientific advisors (and other advisors) to advise based on reality, not on their pet narrative; and the responsibility of the media to investigate and to expose failures.

It’s scary. Actually, I think it’s more scary than the idea that it’s a globalist plan, because at least a globalist plan would mean that there’s something competent waiting in the wings to take over.

65248 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 2, #375 of 1094 🔗

Sadly I think what you write here is quite possibly true. We here, bathing in dissenting viewpoints and in collected, concentrated evidence counteracting the panic narrative, tend to underestimate, I think, how far there is real belief in all the bollocks that backs up the coronapanic, even amongst genuine experts.

65222 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, #376 of 1094 🔗

And even now we rewrite history and entirely blame Tony Blair, when let’s be honest, apart from Cook and Short, everyone else was eagerly credulous, including the opposition and the press.

Not everyone, by a long stretch. I wasn’t and I marched with hundreds of thousands of similar dissenters, in what was claimed to have been the largest protest in British history, to assert my refusal to agree with the bullshit we were being fed.

And that’s why nobody in the media, politics, government who did not oppose that disastrous, criminal policy choice can claim “everybody was fooled”. No, plenty of people saw through it. And it took willful self deception or refusal to apply minimal due diligence to an issue of utmost severity, to fail to see the problems in the case that was made.

All that being said, Blair remains ultimately responsible, as Johnson does for this coronapanic idiocy. Not alone in being blameworthy, but nevertheless the man with leadership responsibility.

And among the most culpable were those who reelected Blair afterwards, when it was clear to all what a mass murderous liar he was.

64735 Awkward Git, #377 of 1094 🔗

Original interview in Bulgarian with an English translation in the article text:

http://www.stankovuniversallaw.com/2020/07/the-biggest-scientific-fraud-and-political-crime-of-all-times-no-one-died-of-coronavirus/

I saw this Russian video back towards the end of April, taken this long to find it again, the first half is the interview with a Russian GRU Colonel (but bit chute can be a bit slow to load but can be downloaded by using savethevideo.com):

https://www.bitchute.com/video/jeHF5BG0NdhW/

64737 TyLean, replying to TyLean, #378 of 1094 🔗

Meeting…. in or near Worcester. Evening on Sunday. 2 August.

The location is proving tricky. Caravan meet-ups have been suggested, but (living in the Highlands) I completely forgot about the general parking nightmare in England – even in the middle of nowhere. Martson’s Pubs are a potential, and there are plenty in Worcester, but people have been saying mixed things about how truly like-normal they are.

Thoughts?

64887 ▶▶ Lili, replying to TyLean, 2, #379 of 1094 🔗

No muzzles in pubs and cafes If it’s anywhere you have to put one on don’t go.

65104 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Lili, #380 of 1094 🔗

Same here – no worries on that account, lol!

64978 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TyLean, #381 of 1094 🔗

A pub is most likely place. Unfortunately, am not familiar with Worcester :o((

65092 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to TyLean, #382 of 1094 🔗

I don’t know Worcester very well either Tylean. Are you in a campervan? Anybody else have one?

65167 ▶▶ matt, replying to TyLean, #383 of 1094 🔗

I’m actually going to be in the Gloucestershire/Worcestershire borders as of next weekend. I’ll drop you a line once I’ve dug out your address from a few days back. The restrictions of family life may keep me away anyway though, I’m afraid.

64742 kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 16, #384 of 1094 🔗

I’m intrigued: does anyone actually know anyone who’s had Covid19? I’m just wandering as I don’t know anyone + neither does pretty much everyone else I know. If it’s that contagious you’d think we’d all know at least one person? 🤔

64747 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to kbeanie, 9, #385 of 1094 🔗

I do, she was tested for work, she had virtually no symptoms, she said it was a two day sniffle. Her kids never had any symptoms.

64748 ▶▶ Biker, replying to kbeanie, 13, #386 of 1094 🔗

To save one of the agent provocateurs saying this can i say i know people that have had it including my grannie, my butcher, the bloke next door, my pet iguana and a bag of oranges i got cheap from Tesco

64763 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Biker, 4, #387 of 1094 🔗

That the problem with buying cheap groceries, they often have cv19.

64791 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #388 of 1094 🔗

Cv19 free food could be the new ‘organic’ – if anything goes wrong, just claim it meant comes free with product

64792 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #389 of 1094 🔗

I bought 3 peaches yesterday that are now looking very poorly as I left them in the strong Greek sunlight on a window sill. I suspect all three would test positive right now. They have all the signs of Covid.

64865 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to CarrieAH, #390 of 1094 🔗

Where do you take a peach’s temperature?

64903 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to annie, 2, #391 of 1094 🔗

In its crease!

64864 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, #392 of 1094 🔗

Wasn’t it a pineapple that President tested? Obviously little Covid is fond of fruit.

64954 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 1, #394 of 1094 🔗

I ate a pie at lunch time yesterday from a roadside waggon, i don’t know if it had the virus but i’m pretty sure it had mad cow’s disease

64749 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to kbeanie, 3, #395 of 1094 🔗

No one I actually know, I know of a nurse that definitely had it but she was nursing covid-19 patients and is clsssed as a vulnerable person in terms of the virus.

64750 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to kbeanie, 4, #396 of 1094 🔗

Yeah, I think I’ve seen several on here who have either had it or know someone who has.

I know a friend locally (SW London) who tested positive whilst ill a couple of months back, and I was very ill back in February, however they weren’t doing tests then.
My grandma (Lake district) had it quite bad, to the point she made some unpleasant end of life calls to my dad and his brother, but she’s an ex GP and she just rode it out at home like a superstar.
A mates nan died after testing positive too, to which he as a consequence said ‘she died of covid’ but I’m aware she had many other health issues so I’d be suspicious of her actual cause of death, personally.

64756 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to kbeanie, 2, #397 of 1094 🔗

I’ve had work colleagues who have family members who have been poorly with flu like symptoms, but non of them as far as I am aware have either been tested, or tested positive for cv19. Non of the above have been hospitalised.

I also have has work colleagues who have lost elderly relatives, generally mums or dads and whilst all these older people had multiple frailties, only one I believe tested positive for cv19. The family are not happy as the person had other issues for an extended period of time, which ultimately resulted in death, cv19 was put on the death certificate.

64761 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, 11, #398 of 1094 🔗

Just to clarify, I’m not denying that a virus of some description does exist. My queries are:

1) If it’s that contagious, why do a lot of us not know anyone with it? (Could be asymptomatic I know)
2) If it’s that deadly + life-threatening, why do hundreds of thousands of people get it with no symptoms at all?

64776 ▶▶▶ PWL, replying to kbeanie, 3, #399 of 1094 🔗

I think it’s entirely a health terrain issue with stuff that’s always in one’s body taking advantage of an imbalance caused by prescription drugs.
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/05/the-covid-19-science-problem-part-one-for-the-sake-of-propaganda-there-is-no-unified-understanding-of-the-disease/

64790 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to PWL, 1, #400 of 1094 🔗

I agree. Someone on here recommended ‘Virus Mania’ by Torsten Engelbrecht, I second the recommendation, it’s a very enlightening read.

64949 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kbeanie, 4, #401 of 1094 🔗

Speaking for myself, I’ll be comparing the whole year ONS data and comparing it to the five year average before I decide whether or not that has either been a pandemic, or even if the Cov-2 virus even exists.

But I’ll wait for the end of year data. Or someone who actually isolates the virus.

65129 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #402 of 1094 🔗

December the 29th,2020
Headlines,
BBC One Government looses all its Coronavirus data!

A spokesman for the government said Matt Handcock, last night bent over to flush the toilet and the memory stick fell out shirt pocked and into the lavatory and was then accidentally flushed away. A team of specially train sewer search experts were called out but failed to retrieve the data stick.

Mr Handcock was quoted to say “that in the coming year all possible efforts will be made to ensure we learn about this virus and really try to find out how it is transmitted and how much of a threat it really poses to the population, at this stage it is still a big unknown”.

65118 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kbeanie, #403 of 1094 🔗

Same reason not everyone gets colds or flu when they’re doing the rounds.

65137 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #404 of 1094 🔗

The times when I have got a nasty does of the lurgy was when I was cold, tired, depressed, stressed out and miserable…Usually.

65226 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Two-Six, 1, #405 of 1094 🔗

well with the exception of “cold” i think most of us have the other symptoms and therefore vulnerable! 🙂

64762 ▶▶ RickH, replying to kbeanie, 6, #406 of 1094 🔗

Well … that question opens a whole can of worms, because we’ll never know, given the speculative nature of PCR and antibody tests, coupled with the lack of any rigorous post-mortem information.

There are people around who have had illness – both mild and occasionally with serious respiratory effects. But other illnesses have precisely the same symptoms – let alone an ill-defined virus that hasn’t yet been satisfactorily isolated to my knowledge.

But your observation is right : there has been no massively unusual outbreak of illness or mortality to warrant the term ‘epidemic’ in any real sense, beyond a spike of multiple-causation deaths in April. which was partly the knock-on from an unusually low season of mortality the previous year. Of course, most deaths are the result of multiple factors.

The Panicdemic is a story – not a disease. The disease is primarily in the area of social and individual psychology, induced by really dangerous agents, like the ‘SAGE’ and ‘TORY’ infections.

64767 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to kbeanie, 18, #407 of 1094 🔗

I know one positive test (asymptomatic) and one person who had “antibodies” but was never sick (despite being the worst hypochondriac you could ever meet).

I have said this all the way through – you can tell it’s a hysteria and not a real threat, because people are bitching and moaning about money and work. We would all not give two shits about those things, because we would all be bereaved or too ill to care…. if this wasn’t bullshit. It’s stank to high heaven since early March. The stink is more putrid now.

64775 ▶▶▶ PWL, replying to TyLean, 5, #408 of 1094 🔗

Covid-19 starts with SARS-COV binding with ACE2 in the upper respiratory tract, so it always beats me how there can be asymptomatic postive cases. As for antibodies, that puzzles me too given the fact they have never isolated SARS-COV-2. Where are these antibodies coming from?
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/06/sars-cov-2-doesnt-exist-but-dont-take-anyone-elses-word-for-it/

64783 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to PWL, 3, #409 of 1094 🔗

Spot on PWL.

64928 ▶▶▶▶ Willow, replying to PWL, 5, #410 of 1094 🔗

So called asymptomatic positives are recovered people not cases. This is the heart of the entire scam.

65136 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Willow, #411 of 1094 🔗

yep

64808 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to TyLean, 3, #412 of 1094 🔗

I’ve never thought of it like that but that is spot on! If we were all at genuine risk of dying, we’d definitely not be agonising over being furloughed or saving the shops

64770 ▶▶ PWL, replying to kbeanie, 4, #414 of 1094 🔗

Well, don’t we already know that “Covid-19” has mostly been people dying of their illnesses (as well as from old age, in surgery, in accidents), and a doctor lumping “coronavirus” on the death certificate either because of a clinical diagnosis (e.g. 2 years with cancer, then a cough just before death), or because a PCR test (which is most likely detecting anything but SARS-COV) has come back a positive?

The latest ICNARC audit reports says that 4000 people died of “Covid-19” in critical care units in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. This is probably the truest indicator of real Covid-19 death: a pneumonia that requires intensive care hospitalisation, caused by SARS-COV binding with ACE2 at the lung.
http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/04/more-on-sars-cov-to-ace2-binding-and-true-covid-19-that-discredits-uk-governments-pretext-for-creating-economic-disaster/

64785 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to PWL, 3, #415 of 1094 🔗

Again – the trouble is that nobody knows, because the fake narrative pushed good science to one side – in case it disagreed.

Pneumonia can be triggered by a range of causes.

64774 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to kbeanie, 19, #416 of 1094 🔗

I know three. One is an ICU nurse, one is a church minister who was visiting hospitals and care homes. He infected his wife. They all got it in early March and all recovered by end-April, latest. The nurse and minister were ill with the minister spending a few days in hospital; his wife got it fairly mildly.

Nearly 4 months later, I’ve heard of nobody else getting it and the CV19 wards are reportedly empty, as they have been for months. Most people I’ve asked have never known anyone who has even had it, let alone died..

We’ve got our fair share of the terrified and muzzled ones round here but a surprising number are beginning to say they’ve had enough. Even if they’ll wear a muzzle to shop, it’s reluctant and they wouldn’t be doing it if there wasn’t a fine. We’ve handed out a few exemption cards to people who were worried.

We’ve heard the odd, sly ‘Wear a mask as a courtesy to others’ (a Nazi argument if I’ve ever heard one!) but otherwise the appetite for it all seems to be waning. Like everyone else, we await the end of furlough with kindly interest but it may be too late as a massive financial crash now seems inevitable.

The manufactured 2nd wave hysteria in Spain, Romania etc (surely all due to increased testing) has gone to the next level now with them turning positive tests into enforced, hospitalisd ‘cases’. I assume they’ll be doing this here next. The Govt’s determination to kill the tourist and other industries, plus just-about all culture is causing maximum misery. I feel very sorry for anyone trying to have a holiday. Not allowed!

Not rosy but I agree with those people who say that we need to find ways to stay positive. Now is the time to reach for those inner resources – books, music, films, ,walks, rides, the people on here who get the picture. We are a community, albeit invisible but let’s be thankful for it! I guess I am so very lucky to have a partner who is of like mind. If you’re on your own, remember, you’re not – you have friends on here.

64778 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to kbeanie, #417 of 1094 🔗

I have been the thinking the same thing, I don’t know anyone personally who has had it, a supermarket worker told me, very exasperated, that there had been 2 cases in the supermarket but she wasn’t worried and thought masks were a joke

64797 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to kbeanie, 3, #418 of 1094 🔗

A goat and a pawpaw got it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/coronavirus-tanzania-test-kits-suspicion-goat-pawpaw-positive-a9501291.html

My next-door neighbour tested positive. Two week paid holiday (she works for the NHS). No symptoms of any note.

64798 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to kbeanie, 7, #419 of 1094 🔗

Boris Johnson had it don’you know. According to him the NHS saved his life. Pity the NHS has since given up on everybody else. But then again did Johnson have it? Many stories abound that he had nothing but a sniffle and should have been sent home with a tube of lockets. Fake news abounds all around us and we all have a tendency to believe what we want to believe. But seeing as Johnson is a pathological liar and a morality free zone I wouldn’t believe a word he utters.
If Johnson really had a near death experience with Coroni then Tony Blair is a much misunderstood person who has devoted his life to peace and good will to all men.

64805 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to kbeanie, 9, #420 of 1094 🔗

Yes. Developed symptoms 9 days after working in an un-ventilated room in close proximity for 3 days with some Chinese academics who had just arrived in the UK, 1 from Wuhan. Although I had cancer last year, have had several episodes of bronchitis, influenza badly and pneumonia once, I only got mild symptoms – a persistent dry cough (which lasted over a week), headaches lasting a couple of days, and a raised temperature for 36 hours. Felt very lethargic on 2nd day only, but that effect quickly passed. Took paracetamol twice, self-isolated for 2 weeks with plenty of fresh air each day walking round the garden, had windows on vent openings, used 2 pillows at night rather than 1, took Vitamin D as well as C, and recovered with no other ill or lasting effects. Had common colds which made me feel much worse than this virus.

64869 ▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to ShropshireLass, 8, #421 of 1094 🔗

Similar to my experience. End of February. Bit off for a few days then fever and headache. Then really high fever 40 C for a day. Rigors ++. Following day was dry cough for a week . In my work I deal with ill people every day and have never taken a day off with any respiratory tract infection for 20 years .

I am not a virus ” denier ” . It is not pleasant but now in July it has passed and we need to lift all this nonsense.

64877 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #422 of 1094 🔗

Very grateful to you both, and any others who tell it like it is.
So, sooooo tired of the instant-death crap still being peddled, until zombies treat it as axiomatic.

64806 ▶▶ alw, replying to kbeanie, 1, #423 of 1094 🔗

My in laws had but none of us who had been in contact got. A cousin in Cape Town had as a result of face mask law but his wife did not get.

64819 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to kbeanie, 6, #424 of 1094 🔗

I know *of one, who actually died. He was a very old man with liver cancer, went to hospital for treatment, caught covid, died. Basically died of liver cancer.

I know quite a few with vague ‘I think I had it’ in January stories, but minor and unsubstantiated. Two of my elderly neighbours were pretty seriously ill in January with ‘chest infections’ which they now think was covid.

That’s it. And I’m around thousands of people every week as I work in large warehouses and factories with large workforces.

64838 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to kbeanie, 4, #425 of 1094 🔗

Hi kbeanie, I know of a few deaths, mostly co morbidities apart from someone who my wife used to work with who she was shocked about. I know a pharmacist and two nurses(mental health) who tested positive. The nurses were quite ill with it. I should point out that none of the others nurses who she worked with have had it as far as I know. I think I have had it and so does my wife (mild temp and weird cramps in legs), I know someone who did some work for a doctor who thought he had it in December. In fact there are more than that. I personally think a lot of the population have had it but many have not had any symptoms. Have always been sceptical about the lockdown though. however the virus does(did) seem to be very nasty for some and mild or asymptomatic for most. It’s a good question to ask. I personally think it is a poor personal hygiene issue and therefore handwashing and cleanliness are the most important thing. We were going the Sweden way and then went into lockdown. I think most on here would say that the consequences of lockdown will be far greater than the disease itself. There are other issues that come to mind like how are immune systems works, surely lockdown down means that some peoples immune systems will be on a bit of a go slow – I think about children who have not mixed very much! Just rambling now, had a bad day but thanks again for asking the question!!!!

64850 ▶▶ DRW, replying to kbeanie, #426 of 1094 🔗

Colds/bad colds from November-March aside (probably generic seasonal bugs), the only time I heard anyone having ‘bad chest infection’ symptoms was one of my dad’s colleagues. They were ill for two weeks in March and had a relapse but soon recovered with no hospital intervention.

64888 ▶▶ GLT, replying to kbeanie, 5, #427 of 1094 🔗

I’ve posted it before but whole family of 5 had something that ticked all the boxes in March. Was worst for 16 year old patient zero. Fit and healthy, no medications and was in bed for 11 days. Ill for 3/4 weeks. Really unpleasant especially given fear factor of what it might turn into but I have had worse flu. I am a natural contrarian but it was the sheer chaos we experienced dealing with the nhs and ppe that really cemented my scepticism of everything the government said in those early days knowing that they were not even collecting basic data (no records, no tests, no inter-agency communication). So the idea they were ‘following the science’ was risible.

16 old’s lungs still not back to normal. I think it can be an unpleasant virus, that’s not the point. As Anders Tegnell points out, we have to live with these things. Even more so now that the data shows that our actions (other than basic hygiene) make virtually no difference to the spread. I am firmly of the belief that hiding away and restricting social contact will be worse for everyone’s immune health in the end. As prof Gupta says, it’s global travel and massive levels of contact that have meant we have not seen an epidemic like the 1918 flu since…

64890 ▶▶▶ GLT, replying to GLT, #428 of 1094 🔗

Phe not ppe!

64896 ▶▶▶ GLT, replying to GLT, #429 of 1094 🔗

Oh and youngest member of the family had just 12 hours feeling off-colour! Glad he missed a term of school for that.

64900 ▶▶▶ GLT, replying to GLT, #430 of 1094 🔗

Also to your point kbeanie, despite seeing many people in the days and weeks before, I know of no-one who also became sick. Also no-one in son’s school. Seems close contact necessary.

64916 ▶▶ guy153, replying to kbeanie, #431 of 1094 🔗

I know at least two or three confirmed cases, some very mild, some severe. A friend of a friend (aged 80) sadly died.

64938 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to kbeanie, 1, #432 of 1094 🔗

Only a positive result to a test – my sister-in-law is a nurse. She suffered no symptoms, so possibly a false positive? Other than that, I only know of, rather than people I know.

64975 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to kbeanie, #433 of 1094 🔗

Hi kbeanie, What are your thoughts after reading through the replies?

65019 ▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Steeve, #434 of 1094 🔗

Feeling pretty much the same really. Other health issues are definite risk factors, plus age + obesity, which we’ve known for a long time. And obviously there will be cases where there’s no known underlying condition but sadly ends in a fatality.

As for people I know personally, my mum was ill a couple of months; she had to be off work for the week, so we had to do the 2 weeks. Very very mild symptoms for her which were gone within the week. Me + my stepdad didn’t develop anything other than some very minor things: feeling a bit under the weather, getting hot easily, I felt like I had a lump in my throat all the time. The day after her symptoms went totally, they announced the testing for keyworkers so sadly she missed that by 24 hours 😂

65040 ▶▶▶▶ kbeanie, replying to kbeanie, #435 of 1094 🔗

*a couple of months ago

64989 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to kbeanie, #436 of 1094 🔗

Yes, one person. Infected whilst being treated for bronchitis in hospital.

65114 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kbeanie, #437 of 1094 🔗

I’m fairly sure my family all had it in January. 4in their 30s and me, late 60s. No-one was very ill, (me least of all, I just felt a bit off for a couple of days). Family had just a mixture of irritating coughs, general colds and one who thought he was detoxing from Christmas (!)
Also had a friend (early 30s) at the same time ill with a raging temperature who was diagnosed with bacterial pneumonia and given antibiotics.

I know OF one woman who had the equivalent of a very bad case of flu. Not hospitalised, full recovered. She’s very fat and had an armful of vaccinations a couple of months earlier when she started working for the NHS …..

I don’t know anyone who’s actually been diagnosed with it though.

65170 ▶▶ matt, replying to kbeanie, #438 of 1094 🔗

Yes, several, including a number of family members. Only two with an actual positive test result though – the others with pretty classic symptoms, but back when only key workers could be tested (the two tested are respectively a GP and a nurse working in a care home).

They’re all fine now. The GP tested negative for antibodies despite the positive antigen test.

64744 Basics, 8, #439 of 1094 🔗

A story that will be typical across the globe.

Police call-outs to mental health incidents in Edinburgh soar during coronavirus lockdown

Exclusive: An FOI request to Police Scotland has revealed that mental health call-outs during the lockdown soared when compared with last year

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/police-call-outs-mental-health-18665055

Interesting the picture caption mentions social distancing with a picture as ambiguous as they come. Some one somewhere knows the relationship between these measures and the effect they have.

64745 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 24, #440 of 1094 🔗

I have become aware of Asthma UK’s current (and, in my view, dangerous) advice to asthmatics on the wearing of facemasks (the emphases are mine):

Do I have to wear a face covering if I have asthma?

Most people with asthma, even if it’s severe, can manage to wear a face mask for a short period of time, and shouldn’t worry if they need to wear one. Wearing a mask does not reduce a person’s oxygen supply or cause a build-up of carbon dioxide. You may have read stories that say that it can, but this isn’t true.

Some people with asthma tell us that face coverings can make breathing feel more difficult, which might be uncomfortable. It’s a good idea to try wearing a face covering at home, or on a short walk around the block first. It might not feel comfortable straight away, so give it a chance.

You can also experiment with different types of mask – some are easier to wear than others. Sometimes the feeling of wearing a face mask might take a bit of getting used to, but trying different types and starting with short periods of time can help you feel more comfortable.

Just having asthma doesn’t make you exempt from wearing a face covering. However, if you do find it impossible to wear a face covering, the UK Government has said that you don’t have to wear one.
https://www.asthma.org.uk/advice/triggers/coronavirus-covid-19/what-should-people-with-asthma-do-now/should-i-wear-a-face-mask-or-face-covering/

Note that they don’t even bother to produce evidence for their assertion that masks do not reduce oxygen supply! I wondered what sort of ‘support group’ Asthma UK is. Well, a few second’s work produced this information:

  • Asthma UK is a private company.
  • Here are their corporate partners: Astra Zeneca, Orion Pharma, Napp and Vax (every one a pharmaceutical    company, some with vested CV19 vaccination interests):

https://www.asthma.org.uk/support-us/corporate/our-partners/

This should be good ammo for us against any Clever Dicky who tries to undermine asthma as a legitimate exemption just because ‘Asthma UK says asthmatics should wear masks’ Spread the word!

64757 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 20, #441 of 1094 🔗

That is genuinely appalling. Basically – if it makes you uncomfortable, just power through it you pathetic asthmatic weasel

64796 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #442 of 1094 🔗

That is shocking! I have 2 friends who are retired nurses, one who retired early because of her asthma and both agrees with medical reports shared from Toby’s website that masks DO reduce oxygen and increase carbon dioxide levels, amongst other harms listed in those and on the WHO’s website in early June (before the latter got nobbled by politicians).

64801 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to ShropshireLass, 6, #443 of 1094 🔗

and for some asthmatics such a reduction in oxygen could lead to a fatal attack.

64988 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Victoria, 1, #444 of 1094 🔗

I also read that reduced oxygen levels can cause blood clots.

64799 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #445 of 1094 🔗

Shocking! They are definitely endangering lives with their vested interests approach. Stay away from them.

65140 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #446 of 1094 🔗

Wow that’s bad. “ Just having asthma doesn’t make you exempt from wearing a face covering.” this is just WRONG. You can cite “to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury” as an exemption. What a bunch of B^%$£%ds.

65231 ▶▶ Bella, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #447 of 1094 🔗

If it doesn’t reduce a person’s oxygen supply then it sure as hell ain’t gonna reduce the virus ninjas. If oxygen molecules can get in there I’m sure a lickle bit of Covid can slip past the security guards too.

65263 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #448 of 1094 🔗

They mainly support fundraising campaigns and charity events. Many years ago I went to the unemployment office in Montreal. One of the jobs offered was definitely a misprint. It read ‘funraising’.

65265 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #449 of 1094 🔗

There used to be an over the counter powder for Asthmatics called Asthmador. It had Bella Donna in it.

64746 RickH, replying to RickH, 1, #450 of 1094 🔗

There are just a few words that need to be added to the ‘Exempt’message (above) :

“… AND NOW F.OFF”

64789 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to RickH, #451 of 1094 🔗

Ha, ha, ha – yes we probably all feel like adding that!

64758 PWL, replying to PWL, 1, #452 of 1094 🔗

Get a copy of the film “Equals”. It’s the new Nineteen Eighty Four.
“The disease is unsanctioned behaviour; Switched On Syndrome and Covid-19”: http://www.frombehindenemylines.org.uk/2020/04/the-disease-is-unsanctioned-behaviour-switched-on-syndrome-and-covid-19/

64780 Mariawarmth, #454 of 1094 🔗

Hey 👋 all I am demoralised after just two days of this and quite tearful 😢 On Friday in a discussion with friends I was told that my no mask stand is “not altruistic”; although ironically my job for many years is educational and pastoral in ASC in which I am of course ‘altruistic’!
In the shops I have been told by members of the public with an accusing hateful eye, (because I can’t see their face) together with a cold brisk brusk muffled tone (because I can’t hear them properly) saying “YOU! Are breaking the Rules!!”
I have photographed the lanyard detail as a backup plan because 100 fine would put me in budget difficulty. Therefore if pushed for detail, I am have anxiety about face covering. Not sure this would get me out of a fine.
I ignored the challenges and walked on with my basket trying not to make eye contact but it is nerve wracking and my hands were shaking.
When filling up with petrol today( needs must as empty) I went into the shop to pay, No mask on. The cashier said he had to tell me “you do know that you CAN NOT enter this shop without a mask” I smiled panicked, said I believe I am exempt. He said “oh I am sorry” I said that’s ok but he then said “ it is of my opinion that people who are exempt should HAVE to wear a badge or wrist band to prove it!!!” So I replied with a smile “No they shouldn’t because that would be a facist rule, wouldn’t it? and the last time I looked we were supposed to be a liberal country” he was not impressed as I could see his face as hilariously he did not have a mask.As I left I caught site of the of accusing eyes 👀 behind me. I am at home now, with a cup of tea safe, wiped my tears, my hands have stopped shaking, my stomach nerves are still jumping. Problem is, I have run out of dishwasher tablets ….. wish me luck it’s an awful shopping experience. X

64781 PoshPanic, 6, #455 of 1094 🔗

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2767939

A study ( very technical ) looking at the much talked about Cytokine Storm.

Although the term cytokine storm conjures up dramatic imagery and has captured the attention of the mainstream and scientific media, the current data do not support its use. Until new data establish otherwise, the linkage of cytokine storm to COVID-19 may be nothing more than a tempest in a teapot.

64782 SueL, #456 of 1094 🔗

The DM have a reported today that the incidence of shingles has increased recently. It is not known why people develop shingles which results from a reactivation of a virus which is otherwise dormant from an earlier infection of chickenpox. There are various theories on why shingles may manifest itself, including an impairment of the immune system and stress. Most sufferers are aged over 50 and the level incidence increases with age.

One of my main concerns over lockdown has been that many older / shielded people have locked themselves away in their homes for weeks on end. Without sunshine (vitamin D), exercise and social interaction. All are important for your health, including of the immune system. Sadly, our local Facebook group confirms this, as does a tendency for increased comfort / poor eating which impairs the immune system.

Are we seeing yet another reason why lockdowns do not work?

64784 Farinances, 23, #457 of 1094 🔗

Got a great one.

Eyes Without A Face – Billy Idol

64793 Basics, replying to Basics, 12, #458 of 1094 🔗

As useful as any description I can give:

Edinburgh business owners ‘desperately worried’ as city centre is like a ‘ghost town’

Both the Fringe Festival and Hogmanay street party have been pulled this year due to the coronavirus

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-usiness-owners-desperately-worried-18663990

Tourist areas (High St etc) no longer have businesses locals typically use. Many of the tourist shops remain closed with cost of opening too high for the obvious little tourism about. Sturgeons policies home to roost. Once the british school holidays end this ghost town is coming to rural Scotland too.

64810 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Basics, 4, #459 of 1094 🔗

Yes I was there on Tuesday. Spoons pub at Waverley shut, many of the Rose Street bars shut. Royal Mile had few shops open . Stayed in a Premierinn on a car dealer estate as the one nearer the airport was shut. Went to a Toni Macaroni and very few in. She has done a fantastic job in closing down retail and hospitality yet is supposedly popular. Why?

64818 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to arfurmo, 4, #460 of 1094 🔗

Why?”

Have a look at archive footage of crowds welcoming Hitler to various locations. Many people love a Mummy/Daddy Fuhrer.

64833 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to arfurmo, 5, #461 of 1094 🔗

Why?
England has the unthinking majority scared witless. Scotland has the same. Scotland’s unthinking scared people have been offerred up a saint nicola to beat back the scourge of westminster and the pandemic. It is powerful stuff to a ‘clansman’. However, the short bread tin presription of Scottishness does not wash with more confident people less supersticiously minded. There is an all too aware mindset too that knows silence does not mean they agree – silence simply stops the nats for yabbering at you.

A badly written opinion. But there’s some truth in it all the same!

64927 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 3, #462 of 1094 🔗

Heads down in the open, but in the polling booth, when it’s just you, a card and a pencil…

64858 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to arfurmo, 1, #463 of 1094 🔗

Scits wa’ hae always been stupid ( present company excepted, of course).

64868 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Basics, 7, #464 of 1094 🔗

My parents have gone to Edinburgh for the week and they told me that the woman at the holiday lettings agency they’re using was having a right old bitch about Sturg-un because she’s totally destroyed their business.

65014 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 1, #465 of 1094 🔗

Poppy, she has.

64800 Matt Mounsey, replying to Matt Mounsey, 61, #466 of 1094 🔗

I’ve been walking into my local supermarket without a face mask. I’ve been told to claim I have asthma if the feds get involved. I’m not going to do it. I refuse to obey this law and I refuse to pay any fines if I get stopped. I’m also not going to claim I have a disability or other condition, because I don’t. I’m refusing to muzzle my face because my government tells me to.

Just come back from the shops half an hour ago. It felt really good to refuse to wear a mask at the door and say I’m not putting up with this shit any more.

64856 ▶▶ annie, replying to Matt Mounsey, 9, #467 of 1094 🔗

Bravo. Take a bow.

64873 ▶▶ Brommers, replying to Matt Mounsey, #468 of 1094 🔗

Exactly the same sir. Went to Tesco yesterday evening unmasked. Was not challenged by anybody, neither staff nor customers, but if I had been I would have kindly told them “No thank you” and got on with my shopping. I do not plan on taking part in this ridiculous charade.

65146 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Matt Mounsey, 3, #469 of 1094 🔗

YAY!

64802 Edna, replying to Edna, 8, #470 of 1094 🔗

I just saw this on the DT site:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/25/local-coronavirus-outbreaks-could-mass-hysteriajoint-biosecurity/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

I guess it’s behind the paywall, but in essence it says that the new Joint Biosecurity Centre (JBC) which has taken over from SAGE has said that it would be aware to the possibility that some local coronavirus outbreaks could be attributed to “local episodes of mass psychogenic illness”.

I wondered whether this might be an example of the government paving the way for announcing that the virus had gone… Or is that just my wishful thinking?

64803 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Edna, 6, #471 of 1094 🔗

They are probably just trying to explain why all the serological tests are returning negative ;-))

64809 ▶▶▶ Edna, replying to IMoz, #472 of 1094 🔗

That’s a much more likely reason! 😁

64855 ▶▶ annie, replying to Edna, 9, #473 of 1094 🔗

The magic words ‘mass hysteria’ give me hope.
Of course, it was our Fascist oppressors who created the mass hysteria…

64921 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 3, #474 of 1094 🔗

Them and the MSM, together with the so-called “opposition” parties. All in on the scam, scaring the bejasus out of folk.

64963 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Edna, #475 of 1094 🔗

“Some local coronavirus outbreaks may just be mass hysteria, the new Government body in charge of Britain’s response has warned, saying that many people could wrongly believe they are infected.

The Joint Biosecurity Centre (JBC), which has taken the lead on co-ordinating the response in place of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), said it would be alert to the possibility of “local episodes of mass psychogenic illness” and that they could cause “substantial anxiety, anger and loss of trust in the community” if “poorly handled”.

Mass psychogenic illness – which used to be referred to as mass hysteria – is when people in a community start feeling sick at the same time, even though there is no physical or environmental reason for them to be ill.”

64807 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 24, #476 of 1094 🔗

We have all been waiting for this …. the risks of masks in shops:

DM headline with video

Shocking moment thieves in medical face masks raid Curry PC World – snatching phones and tablets as terrified staff look on

It is time that big business challenges Government about compulsory masks. How will businesses protect employees that could become collateral damage in such instances?

64812 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Victoria, 14, #477 of 1094 🔗

I am aghast that the banks allowed mask wearing in branches. If I worked in retail or banking in a branch I would feel unsafe for a very different reason than covid!

64849 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Farinances, 11, #478 of 1094 🔗

Some weeks ago I told the following ‘joke’ on an on line forum.

‘Bloke goes into his bank to do a transaction and is told to go out again and come back in wearing a mask’

This was funny at the time as it was considered so ridiculous.NOW???

64821 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, #479 of 1094 🔗

Is technology in place – purchaseable and court submittable – for biometric data capture and recognition? This technology would fill the void here. Perhaps is it under developed for the implementation at present. Perhaps a flaw in the longer term planning of the plandemic.

Recall the crowd ID stories from Wales (iirc) and football stadiums over recent years. It has been attempted but failed and withdrawn.

It will be interesting to see the dealing around more thefts, the modus now known to emulate.

64853 ▶▶ annie, replying to Victoria, 5, #480 of 1094 🔗

Is Curry’s enforcing nappies? if so, I have NO sympathy.

64870 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to annie, 1, #481 of 1094 🔗

I do for the staff!

64907 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, 4, #482 of 1094 🔗

Even better, we didn’t have to wait long. There’s one chain about to bin the requirement to wear masks.

65256 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nick Rose, #483 of 1094 🔗

Oooh who?

64972 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Victoria, 3, #484 of 1094 🔗

Where I live youths do cycle grabs and now they are wearing black masks. Before anyone wearing a black mask would have been suspicious now they blend in so more crime.

64813 Cheezilla, 11, #485 of 1094 🔗

Looking at Tobys’ excellent links, if you juxtapose this (from the Sunday Times article):

Ward-level data on positive coronavirus tests shows that 48 million people live in areas of England that have had no confirmed cases in the past four weeks, suggesting local transmission of the virus has been halted.
This includes two million people who live in neighbourhoods that have never had a confirmed case of coronavirus throughout the pandemic.

with the sudden ridiculous decision to mandate quarantine for tourists returning from Spain. Notice they haven’t said flights should be cancelled, so there will be no insurance refunds for those frantically cancelling. From the Mail article:

Ashworth said clarity was needed on whether returning tourists could get financial support if they were refused help by their employer. “The way in which this decision has been communicated is obviously causing anxiety,” he said.

it proves conclusively that they are cruelly playing with us like a cat with a mouse. I do hope the press start pointing this out, loudly and persistently!

64816 Cbird, replying to Cbird, 9, #486 of 1094 🔗

Anna Brees is an ex BBC journalist. Her you tube channel has a series of recent videos from viewers airing their views and fears about lockdown. Well worth a look if you need reminding that we are not alone:

https://www.youtube.com/c/AnnaBrees

64885 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cbird, 2, #487 of 1094 🔗

All good, let’s see how long they stay up for

64820 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 1, #488 of 1094 🔗

I’m seeing a few reports floating round in comments sections that several people have died in the vaccine trials in Ukraine. Can’t find confirmation anywhere.

Anyone got any gen on this?

64832 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Farinances, 5, #489 of 1094 🔗

Nothing on the reports per se, but this does not fill me with confidence:

https://eba.com.ua/en/zvernennya-eva-do-moz-shhodo-globalnyh-klinichnyh-doslidzhen/

Poor(ish) country currying favour with NGOs and the associated bandwagon, by agreeing to circumvent strict regulations. Ominous for our very own situation with the Oxford and ICL vaccines.

64866 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 7, #490 of 1094 🔗

Oh dear 😑
When they said they would be testing it in SA/Africa and that there was some program in Ukraine it rang alarm bells.
Sounds like they aren’t testing it in the traditional ‘is this effective and safe?’ sense. More in a ‘how dangerous could it be and how much can we get away with?’ sense.

64823 guy153, replying to guy153, 21, #491 of 1094 🔗

Interesting thread here about how other viruses are making a comeback as lockdowns are lifted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ZaminIqbal/status/1287136287368138755

On that US chart, the orange bits are not Covid, but other Coronaviruses. It’s very interesting to look at this:

https://syndromictrends.com/metric/panel/rp/percent_positivity/organism/main

Choose Coronavirus, and then select all the different coronaviruses from the panel on the right. You can see how they appear to be taking turns. 2019 was the year of OC43, 2020 was HKU1 (and of course SARS-COV2). We have recently learned that there’s quite a bit of cross-immunity between coronaviruses so which one dominates a season may be a matter of luck: whichever one gets its foot in the door first. Or it may be that after a few years people get reinfected (but more mildly because of their memory B and T cells) and so they alternate because of that.

In the US now other viruses are back up to about half of what they were at this time last year and already higher than they were at the start of April.

It looks like a similar situation in the UK, based on data from here: https://clininf.eu/index.php/rcgprscnetworkintelligence/ although there aren’t as nice graphs (or I can’t find them).

What all this shows from the point of view of Covid is that people are getting bored of lockdowns, and that if your Covid infections and deaths are not going up at this point it’s a very good sign that you have a decent level of herd immunity in your population. This is confirmed by the fact that we are seeing second waves of Covid in places that locked down too early. But not in places that left it nice and late or didn’t do it all: Sweden, the UK, New York.

If you look at that graph of the whole of the US and compare it to Covid deaths on Worldometers, you see that there was a peak of Covid deaths around the end of April, mostly coming from places like NY.

All those other viruses are now already back up to higher than they were at the beginning of April, and the level at the start of July is about equal to that at the start of April. But although deaths are going up in the US, not in NY. Why not? Is their lockdown still in place and much stricter than everywhere else? It seems much more likely to be herd immunity. The lockdown was too late for NY and too early for the south and west.

This winter will be the acid test. Influenza, RSV and other coronaviruses are going to have a bit of a field day due to the increased susceptible population after the NPIs (hopefully mitigated by reduced transmission from behaviour changes). If Covid is still at very low levels compared to all those other viruses (which is what I expect to see, and I think we are already seeing this) then it’s going to be very hard for anyone to argue that that isn’t because of herd immunity.

64826 ▶▶ Edna, replying to guy153, 2, #492 of 1094 🔗

Excellent post! Thank you 🙂

64827 ▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 6, #493 of 1094 🔗

Influenza, RSV and other coronaviruses are going to have a bit of a field day due to the increased susceptible population after suppressing them”

This is the insanity of current policy based on the hubris of thinking you can stop the world with no kick-back.

… and all over a pretty inconsequential ‘virus’

64876 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to RickH, 4, #494 of 1094 🔗

Thanks for some interesting charts.
One of my biggest fears is that come the Autumn, the PCR tests will detect the circulating seasonal ‘ronas. The MSM screams “SURGING CASES!” [sic] “SECOND WAVE!” [sic] and the psychos impose a national “Leicester” before the record can be straightened.

64881 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to guy153, 1, #495 of 1094 🔗

Actually, I’d say it’s not quite “other viruses are making a comeback as lockdowns are lifted” but more of a now instead of writing every RTI off as COVID-19 without lab tests (ICD U07.2 code), clinicians actually starting to submit proper lab work and the labs are returning proper diagnoses.

65166 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, #496 of 1094 🔗

I hope you’re right.

65168 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cheezilla, #497 of 1094 🔗

Look at the graph—it’s simply implausible that all the other pathogens disappeared at the same time as COVID-19 “spiked.” I strongly suspect if they add SARS-CoV-2 the usual trend would continue.

65223 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to guy153, 1, #498 of 1094 🔗

As Gupta and common sense infer: we are doing mankind’s immune system no favour in the long run, by avoiding contact with and the spread of the Coronavirus.

65246 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Jay Berger, #499 of 1094 🔗

It looks like lockdowns all had a pretty temporary effect on viruses, which is probably for the best. It’s the “V-shaped dip” people were hoping for for the economy (other shapes mentioned were U and L).

64840 Fred, #500 of 1094 🔗

Someone should start selling homeopathic face coverings.

64859 Jane, 1, #501 of 1094 🔗

Good to see that BHL is good for *something*!

64878 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Mike Collins, 10, #503 of 1094 🔗

This is exactly what they want. Social meltdown. Just ask Cressida Dick!

64910 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Mike Collins, 2, #504 of 1094 🔗

I’m missing out on all the Daily Mail links as I have an ad blocker and the site won’t let me on unless I deactivate it. Sorry but will not do.

64912 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DavidC, 6, #505 of 1094 🔗

Don’t worry – generally, ‘missing out’ on the Daily Bile is a life-enhancing experience 🙂

64914 ▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to RickH, 1, #506 of 1094 🔗

Lol! I AM missing out on the Peter Hitchens bits though!

64934 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Edna, 1, #508 of 1094 🔗

Mnay thanks Edna.

DavidC

65266 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DavidC, #509 of 1094 🔗

Just another example of social distancing.

64882 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 16, #510 of 1094 🔗

Went to Waitrose today. Thought it might be interesting to try out one of the most strict supermarkets.

Had to wait for 10 minutes to get in. When we got to the front of the queue, the poor woman letting people in had an almost purple face, and was clearly struggling, almost to the point where you would call an ambulance in normal times.. She had a muzzle hanging off her ear. She looked at me with my lockdown sceptics t-shirt and looked at my partner with a lanyard, and visibly acknowledged. I asked if Waitrose made here wear the muzzle or if it was optional. she said they are optional but apparently there was an grumpy old fucker a few minutes before who went absolutely apeshit at her for not wearing a muzzle, so she had to put one on. She was not best pleased and her fellow staff were clearly as fucked off about it. Got in the shop and only one or two staff were muzzled (just the ones at the till), but unfortunately all but one other customer was.

It was actually quite a nice feeling to be among the small minority of customers in the shop breathing fresh oxygen. No one batted an eyelid, but I’m sure they noted it. I was hoping to bump into the old fucker that made that women’s Day hell but alas didn’t see him.

64905 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #511 of 1094 🔗

Fair enough, but remember, #weareallinthistogether, as the supermarkets keep telling us. I’ll report on my experience in Morrisons shortly.

64935 ▶▶ IanE, replying to TheBluePill, 6, #512 of 1094 🔗

There are times when pacifism seems insufficient!

64941 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to TheBluePill, 7, #513 of 1094 🔗

Had a Waitrose delivery yesterday – the poor delivery driver was wearing a mask despite the humidity. Suggested that he take it off as I didn’t mind, but he left it on. He did tell me that he was only wearing it when going to customers’ doors, not in the van. We have been having deliveries for about the last month – the delivery drivers (who don’t come into the house) have never had masks before.

64955 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to TheBluePill, 13, #514 of 1094 🔗

Went in a Morrisons in Peckham, London yesterday with 30 + fellow sceptics yesterday. Not a problem most people see the absurdity of mandatory masks now including the security staff. It is largely about control and power now and keeping the population in fear to implement unpopular changes to society. https://www.instagram.com/p/CDEe2L0nIqq/

65169 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TheBluePill, 2, #515 of 1094 🔗

Ironic that most supermarkets are doing a no masks behind till but staff to wear on shopfloor approach.

What with the government’s mixed messages and the shop policies contradicting each other, this gets more like a Pratchett script every day!

64894 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 22, #516 of 1094 🔗

I now officially LOATH the NHS and all its smug useless apparatchiks.

Just listened to the Planet Normal podcast with the lovely Allison Pearson and her interviewing a district nurse who has had four patients die horribly because they were refused hospital treatment and an array of GPS refused to leave their bunkers to honour their Hippocratic Oaths. Patients crime? Old – for one thing. Not party members for another.

It’s about 17 minutes in if you want to skip the rest.

https://youtu.be/sDu-bZwmqSU

I’ll amend that. ALL public services. They should be in the camps.

64904 ▶▶ RickH, replying to James Leary #KBF, -3, #517 of 1094 🔗

You don’t have to mimic Johnsonian Tory extremism as a counter to irrationality – it actually boils down to simply more of the same!

64931 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to RickH, 2, #518 of 1094 🔗

“Johnsonian Tory extremism” – ah, you mean neo-Blairism!

65201 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to IanE, 2, #519 of 1094 🔗

Boris is way more wet than BLiar imo (he had balls and used them for evil) but the comparison is definitely a valid one

64930 ▶▶ IanE, replying to James Leary #KBF, 8, #520 of 1094 🔗

I wonder what Florence Nightingale would think of modern GPs and nurses!

65171 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IanE, 1, #521 of 1094 🔗

I’m sure she had an enormous vocabulary and could wield it effectively

64895 RickH, 13, #522 of 1094 🔗

The article by immunologist Beda Stadler (above) is a humdinger – and well worth a read. She doen’t pull punches re. the navel-gazing incompetence of epidemiologicl modellers :

Epidemiologist also fell for the myth that there was no immunity in the population. They also didn’t want to believe that coronaviruses were seasonal cold viruses that would disappear in summer. Otherwise their curve models would have looked differently. When the initial worst case scenarios didn’t come true anywhere, some now still cling to models predicting a second wave. Let’s leave them their hopes — I’ve never seen a scientific branch that manoeuvred itself so much into the offside. I have also not yet understood why epidemiologists were so much more interested in the number of deaths, rather than in the numbers that could be saved.”

64901 arfurmo, 14, #523 of 1094 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/26/unions-urge-ministers-consider-making-face-masks-compulsory/ (paywall) and yet from https://www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/health-safety/coronavirus-guidance/coronavirus-faqs.html#Reopening However, if members choose to wear a face mask or face covering they should be aware that it is considered only to be beneficial as a protection for others and not themselves and is no substitute for social distancing and other hygiene measures to control virus transmission.”

And yet under 20s are four times as likely to be struck by lightning.

Madness

64915 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #524 of 1094 🔗

https://www.covibes.org/public/Russia
https://www.covibes.org/public/Belarus

Interesting to compare absolute non-lockdown Belarus with lockdown Russia. Look at both curves of cases. Belarus goes down quickly but Russian lingers on 5000 cases level. Caveat could be that Russia is a big country but couldn’t resist uploading the two curves. Putin is a wimp compared to the more robust old fashioned Lukashenko. Putin requires all his visitors to go through a disinfection channel according to reports. Putin flattened the curve but sometimes you think of Kurt Witthkowski’s remark best to wash the whole pandemic through faster.

64924 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, 1, #525 of 1094 🔗

You’re comparing over 25.7 million tests conducted in Russia [1] and 1.2 million tests conducted in Belarus [2], and the self-isolation index in Russia is actually fairly low (many people out in the streets) [3]…

Another thing: absolute numbers are meaningless, you need to adjust for population (which is why proper statistics use “per thousand” or “per million” quantities)

1. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109794/coronavirus-covid-19-diagnostics-in-russia/
2. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104310/coronavirus-situation-belarus/
3. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109317/covid-19-self-isolation-index-russia/

64942 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to IMoz, #526 of 1094 🔗

Belarus has 10 million Russia 145 million.Belarus has more cases per million than Russia.Not that big difference in testing.Just comparing the curves.

64953 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, #527 of 1094 🔗

Testing between the two is more than a factor of 20 difference, what do you mean “not that big a differnce in testing”?.. Now ask: is Belarus testing everyone, even those with no sysmptoms, or just those who are hospitalised? In Russia anyone can get Ig tested if they wish so long as they’re over 18 (in the UK it’s primarily rtPCR, btw).

There’s a good book by Huff about statistics 😉

64959 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 2, #528 of 1094 🔗

The problem is that you can’t apply sensible statistical procedures to data that is totally f.cked from the lowest level up.

That’s why nothing is of much use other than ‘all cause’ mortality in this shitstorm of nonsense. *Nobody* knows *anything* useful directly about ‘Covid’ in terms of numbers, given the confusions of definition and counting.

64966 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, 1, #529 of 1094 🔗

Exactly, and the only thing you can actually do is look at excess deaths, but only in a large window. Unsurprisingly, in the UK, it was admitted back in March that majority of those who succumb to COVID-19 would have died this year anyway.

65029 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 3, #530 of 1094 🔗

You’re right – it’s one of the indicators that this is a scam – rather than an epidemic – that basic procedures concerning data, its collection, and its analysis have been almost totally ignored.

How often do you see a time series corrected for population? Or a clear distinction made between a notional RNA strand and the speculative origins of an illness? Or – even simpler – a clear statement of the declining nature of infectious deaths following a normal pattern?

Two things that an objective assessment would immediately have noted :

  1. The comorbidities related to high mortality in the elderly
  2. That the increased *apparent* mortality in this age-group is partly ‘saved’ mortality from the previous season of exceptionally low infection.

But, instead of rational, data-based assessment and appropriate response, we have a confection of nonsense with no intellectual substance, driven mainly by various evidence-free ego trips..

65036 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, 2, #531 of 1094 🔗

It’s worse: ONS expressly state that they conflate U07.1 (lab confirmed COVID-19) and U07.2 (clinical or epidemiological diagnoses, i. e. hunch) in their COVID-19 mortality statistics.

65053 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 1, #532 of 1094 🔗

… and add to that the nonsense of ‘excess mortality’ – which is actally only an actual deviation from a modelled guess (i.e.the error component). It’s hard to keep a straight face at the compounding statistical misconceptions and errors!

Scottie!!!!!!!

65217 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to IMoz, 1, #533 of 1094 🔗

If you look at Covid deaths or excess deaths in Belarus now, and incorporate for them likely being fudged, there is still no anecdotal evidence at all that Belarus was or is subject to a huge death wave, let alone a Fergusonian one.

Word on that would have gone out, the country is not that isolated or unfree, and there are plenty of Western journos running around there, likely intensively just looking for those stories now and since a while.

If anything, Belarus proves not only that our lockdowns were idiotic, but also that social distancing is irrelevant here, that even Sweden has gone too far in that regard.

Which makes sense, because SD is mainly based upon the high school field trial of a 14 year old, and that is also further supported by the ‘surprisingly’ low infection rates among household members (Gangelt study etc.).

64991 ▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to IMoz, #534 of 1094 🔗

Just going by wordometer Tests/1 mil Russia 184 339 Belarus 132 432.I don’t know if the test are only PCR or if they are “contaminated” with serology testing. I don’t know if the cases in worldometer are all PCR cases in both countries or not. I was just comparing the shape of the curves and if this was an effect of lockdown.

64996 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, #535 of 1094 🔗

The difference is nearly 30%, is that not significant?

65016 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to IMoz, 1, #536 of 1094 🔗

I agree that total death most important, including serology will distort figures etc. Still Belarus is doing a lot of testing 3 times more than France(which is doing only half of Germany).It is only the fall of numbers in both countries I discussed, if it could be related to lockdown. My point is: We have two ex Soviet Republics, neighbours lead by authoritarian government. Belarus followed the traditional response in a flu pandemic as USSR did. Russia being much more western influenced followed the Italian fashion and locked down. That’s my only point. Could that affect the shape of the curves? Nothing more.

65020 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, 1, #537 of 1094 🔗

For starters, the nature of testing would definitely affect your count: you can limit your testing to mere clinical presentations that are hospitalised vs anyone who volunteers for testing…

65184 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to IMoz, #538 of 1094 🔗

Yes, in Moscow anyone can go and do a test for about £20. Or they can do it by post.

65200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JulieR, #539 of 1094 🔗

Not quite: private one I found is just over 10 quid for IgM/G (depending if you want currently infected or recovered) testing, or if you just want mere Ig presence detection it’s just over 7 quid [1], or you can get it free as part of the mandatory medical insurance at a clinic [2].

1. https://citilab.ru/labs/119/services/61/61-00-176/34398.aspx
2. https://www.mos.ru/news/item/74915073/

65181 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to swedenborg, #540 of 1094 🔗

Regions reacted differently. Some didn’t have any restrictions, some had a few. Just Moscow had lockdown. The only common thing was all schools and universities did distance learning.
They didn’t cancel a level equivalent school exams.

65159 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 1, #541 of 1094 🔗

The Worldometer numbers are the best we’ve got!

… and they’re meaningless for any scientific analysis.

Forget them.

65176 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to swedenborg, 2, #542 of 1094 🔗

Lukashenko didn’t want to be bullied into lockdown. Belorus is already weak economiclly.
Putin very cleverly transferred all decisions about Covid to regional governments. He didn’t want to be blamed for mistakes.
Proper lockdown was only in Moscow. Now Moscow mayor says that herd immunity has been achieved in Moscow, there will be no second wave. Everything is opened in Moscow and nearly everything in St Petersburg. No masks or social distancing. Flights to London start on the 1 of August.
Russian government realised that people will go on protests if restrictions continued as nobody was paying them to sit at home and do nothing.

65197 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to JulieR, #543 of 1094 🔗

Thanks for important inside information.I think many in Europe will follow Putin and let regions/provinces take all responsibilty.Nobody can afford a complete national lockdown anymore so let local people do the “dirty” work.

65209 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to swedenborg, 4, #544 of 1094 🔗

Also Russians are very good at breaking laws. Even when masks were mandatory on public transport many people didn’t bother with masks.

65218 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to JulieR, #545 of 1094 🔗

Please send us some of your rebels…

65290 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to JulieR, 2, #546 of 1094 🔗

So if I go to Russia my face can be free?
I grew up being taught that the Soviet bloc was a hell of fear and repression. Talk about world upside down!

64923 CarrieAH, replying to CarrieAH, #547 of 1094 🔗

Hmmmm what’s going on here then?

https://www.patreon.com/MrMasonMills

64933 ▶▶ Willow, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #548 of 1094 🔗

I don’t know. MM blocked me on Twitter so I imagine he’d do the same on Patreon. £90 a month for a fortnightly zoom. 😱 I guess it’s how we do democracy these days?

65237 ▶▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Willow, #549 of 1094 🔗

Funnily enough he blocked me as well after I criticised the quarantine scheme! Very thin skinned and I got set on by his fan boys. I’d be interested to know what other contributors glean from his site…

64962 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to CarrieAH, 3, #550 of 1094 🔗

COVID19 2nd wave timelines? Face mask timeline? BBC to fall? Could be worth EE if legit?

64981 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Sarigan, 1, #551 of 1094 🔗

Yes would love to know the face nappy timeline

64985 ▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to arfurmo, 1, #552 of 1094 🔗

Me too. It’s tempting to subscribe just for that! But that’s the bait no doubt.

65008 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to arfurmo, 4, #553 of 1094 🔗

Timeline is review in six months, law lapses in 12 months if not renewed. Will almost certainly be extended to all indoor spaces, and maybe outdoors.

65015 ▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Julian, 6, #554 of 1094 🔗

If that happens, can all Lockdown Sceptic members in the UK club together, buy an island and we all move to that muzzle, politician and brainwashed sheeples free new home of the enlightened and sane?

65023 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to ShropshireLass, 2, #555 of 1094 🔗

It sometimes seems there are so few of us that we might be able to afford an island to fit us all in, given that it wouldn’t need to be that big

65028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Julian, 1, #556 of 1094 🔗

Need somewhere like Sark which is self governing. Lot’s of islands of Scotland but not keen on living under Nicola Sturgeon.

65035 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Darryl, 1, #557 of 1094 🔗

NS? Perish the thought. We would have to declare ourselves an independent state/country. Would prefer an island that is warm and sunny more time than it is cold, wet and windy – any ideas?!

65039 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #558 of 1094 🔗

How about ending the US military’s lease on Diego Garcia early? The world would probably be a more a more peaceful place as a bonus. Nice weather most of the year as well.

65267 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to ShropshireLass, #559 of 1094 🔗

Invade Richard Branson’s island.

65034 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, 2, #560 of 1094 🔗

Like a sort of Anthrax island or plague colony, I’me in!

65002 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #561 of 1094 🔗

I’m still trying to figure out if this is actually Cummings. The account actually reads like a fifteen year old autistic kid in his bedroom dabbling in conspiracy porn.

But that sounds just like Cummings.

65286 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Farinances, 1, #562 of 1094 🔗

He says in his Twitter profile that he isn’t DC. But he does seem to get an awful lot of things right. So either he genuinely is on the inside in some capacity and has been given the go-ahead to get certain information out onto social media, or he’s taken some lucky guesses. He does sound like Cummings at times though, you are right, and we didn’t hear a peep out of him for two weeks when the whole Cummings “eye test” nonsense was going on.

65010 ▶▶ Julian, replying to CarrieAH, 2, #563 of 1094 🔗

Someone trying to make money and wind people up at the same time? Seems like a good move to ignore it to me. This Mason Mills character seems like an attention seeker to me.

64937 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 25, #564 of 1094 🔗

Sit-rep:
I have just taken bare-face shopping to the next level, ventured into two small co-op stores, scary being the only person with no face nappy but the shop guys was fine, pleased to see my defiance I think.

I got a few looks but not nasty, just a quick look and then a break of eye contact.

I got brave and decided to stand outside for a bit saying to people as they went in “you don’t have to wear that”. A kind of experiment. I was ingonred by most people and one woman shamed me and accused me of people like me forcing her to wear one. Ummmm, and then accused me of harassing her. All I said was “Excuse me you don’t have to wear a mask if you don”t want to”, anyway she was shielding her Dad and she was a total twat so I wasn’t too bothered.

One young guy, I said you don’t have to wear that, he said what oh really? Then put one on. Fail. A young polish lady had forgot hers and was standing at the door not sure what to do I said to her “you don’t have to wear one” and she said “Oh really?” I said “yer, I have just been in, don’t worry, just say your exempt”, in she went, YAY!

Another beefy guy, was going in getting his mask warmed up, I had a word, said “don’t worry its fine to go in without one, all you have to say is your exempt, you don’t have to prove anything to anybody”,in he went bare-faced….Another small victory.

Yes it feels weird not wearing one when everybody else is wearing one but also extremely good too in a scary and exciting kind of way.

I think I am going to do some flyers to hand out to shoppers, much better than talking to them as an initial approach. I think this action could really change things for face nappy wearing, people just don’t know that you can exempt yourself easily and you will get zero grief from shop staff.

I then went to the local Wetherspoons, surprisingly it was OK. Wasn’t asked for track and trace and ordered at the bar. Cheap too, then proceeded to have a good laugh with a mate of mine, going on loudly about Face Nappies in a variety of silly accents and taking bolox in the town market place!! Haven’t laughed so much for ages.

64960 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Two-Six, 7, #565 of 1094 🔗

Might try walking up and down the street with a sandwich board ” Just say you’re exempt! “

64970 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to PoshPanic, 5, #566 of 1094 🔗

That would be a good idea.

64973 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 3, #567 of 1094 🔗

I think the flyers are a good idea.

I’ve been thinking about doing the same – or having Vistaprint do some business cards with some basic going muzzle-free advice on. I just need to work on the copy – ideas anyone?

Those you convert could pass them on to their friends. And so it continues.

64984 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #568 of 1094 🔗

Its got to be very simple, one or two lines and a good picture. Then perhaps a little fact checker box once you have got them reading and interested. Too many words are scary to many people. Especially if they can’t swipe them away and get to the cat pictures.

64987 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 7, #569 of 1094 🔗

I also found myself saying “Free your Face!” to people.

64997 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 4, #570 of 1094 🔗

Wethy’s are doing it right. I’ve said that a couple of times on here, now; I’m not an employee or a share holder, honest, they are just doing it right. All the ‘requirements’ are there, but no pressure to use them.

65175 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #571 of 1094 🔗

I suspect that’s how it’s supposed to be. They probably got some decent solicitors on it to see what they HAD to do and what they could ignore.

65026 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Two-Six, 2, #572 of 1094 🔗

I need the most eye catching name to use…
In fact we should do a poll on here to find the best name, and we all use it.
Telephone number should always be Matt Hancocks mobile number.

65225 ▶▶ court, replying to Two-Six, #573 of 1094 🔗

My local ‘spoons is my only escape. Apart from the doors being open all the time it’s the same as it ever was. Local Greene King pub barked a large amount of orders at me when I came through the front door. I soon about turned. I then tried the Marstons, not as bad as the Greene King as I could sit where I wanted mostly, but still felt like I was disrupting their empty pub by being there.

65232 ▶▶ Newmill Mark, replying to Two-Six, #574 of 1094 🔗

The only place currently that feels semi-normal

64939 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 16, #575 of 1094 🔗

I had my first experience of muzzled shopping in Morrisons today, and I didn’t like it one little bit. I didn’t want to get into any arguments, and Mrs Tenchy was adamant that I shouldn’t make a fool of myself and must behave. So reluctantly, I slapped on one of those blue face nappies, but only as I was entering the store, and I took it off instantly as I emerged. First point to note is that the filter doesn’t work. Airflow due to my breathing was about 90% round the edges of the nappy. Customers were 100% compliant, but only staff with direct customer contact were muzzled up. In fact, some of them were only wearing a totally ineffectual visor. What really irritated me was that staff behind the wet fish counter, the fresh pizza counter, the deli and the fresh meat stall we all unmuzzled. WTF! Even without bat flu, it would be good hygiene practice for these people to have some sort of protection as they’re coughing and spluttering over your fresh food. How the hell can this possibly be justified? What is the “science” that says it’s alright for people breathing over fresh food not to have a face nappy, but the rest of us must acquiesce to the stupid rules? I’m toying with the idea of a complaint to Morrisons. Yes, I know there’s no need for the face nappies at all, for anyone, hardly ever, but this spectacle in Morrisons is not far short of taking the piss. Elsewhere in the store, they’ve implemented a ridiculous queueing system at the checkout that bunches people up, and there are hectoring notices around the place about “customer behaviour”, and not to mention the tooled up security yobs still “greeting” you (avoiding eye contact) as you enter and leave. Two weeks ago, things were looking up in Morrisons, but now they’ve taken a massive step backwards. As we were driving away, I noticed a discarded nappy that someone had thrown out of their car window onto the pavement. Maybe I should call the council to report some bio-hazard waste.

Welcome to the dystopian present; the new abnormal.

64948 ▶▶ Willow, replying to Tenchy, 25, #576 of 1094 🔗

The shops cannot make staff wear them because they would then be legally liable for any health consequences.

I’m taking a litter picker to collect used masks which I will then send to Downing Street for disposal. They’ve created the problem, they can damn well fix it.

64980 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Willow, 5, #577 of 1094 🔗

Excellent idea!

64994 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lms23, 3, #578 of 1094 🔗

Seconded.

64950 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 8, #579 of 1094 🔗

Please don’t put any more pressure on shop staff to have to wear the disgusting things all day. They’ve been serving fresh food maskless for decades with no problem.

If you want to protest, don’t wear YOUR muzzle. It clearly raises your blood pressure so you’re obviously exempt!

64951 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 7, #580 of 1094 🔗

This idea you have about “coughing and spluttering” over food. I bet they weren’t ACTUALLY doing that. I have never seen anybody serving food cough or splutter over food. This term is an integral part of the psy-op..Coughing and spluttering….My mum mentioned this to me a while ago as a reason to mask up. Its a phrase that should be avoided at all costs I think.

I never cough or SPLUTTER over anybody ever. Never have never will do. I don’t SPLUTTER.

64977 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 15, #581 of 1094 🔗
64952 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 4, #582 of 1094 🔗

” I didn’t want to get into any arguments, and Mrs Tenchy was adamant that I shouldn’t make a fool of myself and must behave.

An interesting insight.

Those of us who are rational and hysteria-resistant are also not keen on winding up the poor souls who are simply scared. This is the contradictory power of irrationality.

Even within the family, where a general consensus lies in seeing the whole scam as a load of bollocks, there is a reluctance to actually getting into tiresome arguments. So the tendency is to avoid banging on about the bleedin’ obvious, and save energy and antagonism.

64974 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to RickH, 8, #583 of 1094 🔗

Yes, Mrs Tenchy is almost as much a sceptic as me, but in common with most people, she doesn’t like confrontation.

Two-six – of course they weren’t actually doing that – coughing over the food, but you know what I mean.

Cheezilla – I probably won’t complain, and I know there’s no need for the nappies, but my thinking was that if shop staff are uncomfortable – physically – with the stupidity, they may well complain to management, who may – you never know – take it up with the gits that govern us.

65018 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #584 of 1094 🔗

I think you do have a really good point though with the staff breathing over the fresh produce. After all if the customers are potentially infected then so are the staff. It would be a good place to point out the stupidity of it.

65190 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to wendy, #585 of 1094 🔗

Get a grip, you’ve been buying food this way for years and it’s never done you any harm. If you’re thinking this way you’re just as bad as the muzzle wearing bed wetter!

65177 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #586 of 1094 🔗

Their managers are probably Karens. It would be inviting trouble.

65178 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, #587 of 1094 🔗

Unfortunately this means that the staff will have to suffer in silence

64943 Willow, replying to Willow, 21, #588 of 1094 🔗

We need to burst the bubble of these muzzle fanatics by pointing out that, per CDC, masks should be changed or washed after 30 minutes in a non sterile environment or if you touch or remove them, whichever is sooner. These people seem to think they just need one fashion muzzle for their #showmeyourmask selfie and we need to enlighten them. That will damp the enthusiasm I should think. How much are people paying for these face nappies??!!

64983 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Willow, 8, #589 of 1094 🔗

I can beat that, the Organization for Safety, Asepsis and Prevention says 20 minutes:

Masks:

Change masks between patients or when they become damp from external contamination or from condensation of moist, exhaled air (about every 20 minutes).

https://www.osap.org/page/FAQPPE20135

64990 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Willow, 2, #590 of 1094 🔗

agree

65096 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Willow, 2, #591 of 1094 🔗

I remember my dentist saying that the effectivity of those blue muzzles is only 10 minutes. I suspect that cloth ones are useless and are a nasty breeding ground for bacteria as that Spanish scientist demonstrated.

Also made worse by inhaling fibres and bobbles as the cloth progressively becomes older.

65204 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Bart Simpson, #592 of 1094 🔗

The dentist study from 2016 actually showed that their masks make no sense at all.
It was deleted from Oral Health in late June, in line with the new 1984/2020 approaches to freedom of speech and science of the world, the pre-enlightenment ones.
The study has been saved though by and is available on evidencenotfear.com

65299 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jay Berger, #593 of 1094 🔗

I believe that I managed to read that paper before it was taken down and you’re right, even dentists are sceptical about their effectivity.

64944 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #594 of 1094 🔗

Latest travesty?

Teachers’ union calls for compulsory face masks for school children
At least 10 schools have decided to break with Government guidance in order to make coverings mandatory for pupils

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/26/unions-urge-ministers-consider-making-face-masks-compulsory/

A fresh row broke out over face masks on Sunday night as teaching unions called for ministers to consider making them mandatory for children in all secondary schools. ….

…. one comprehensive, Holmes Chapel, in Cheshire, including masks in its new school uniform and directing parents to a designated shop where they can be bought for £3. ….

…. Unions said recent announcements requiring the wearing of masks on public transport and in shops had “highlighted the need for similar protections to be in place in schools and colleges”.
Patrick Roach, the general secretary of the NASUWT teachers’ union, said: “The Government’s guidance for schools is now out of step with wider public health guidance and guidance to other employers where it is recognised that, where physical distancing cannot be assured, face masks should be worn.
“Teachers and other staff working in schools also want to be assured that, when they return to the workplace in September, they will be afforded the same level of protection as other workers, and that the guidance for schools will be brought into line with guidance for other workplaces.”

…. Julie McCulloch, the director of policy at the Association of School and College Leaders (ASCL), said she expected “most schools” to follow the guidance but conceded that there is “a fair degree of confusion among the public about why face coverings are required in some settings but not in schools”.

64956 ▶▶ Willow, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #595 of 1094 🔗

For an 8 hour school day kids will need a minimum of 16 masks @ £3 a pop. That’s nearly £50 😱 can’t see parents going for it

64967 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Willow, 14, #596 of 1094 🔗

I think they’ll be quite happy for them to wear the same one all week, since they don’t seem to understand what masks are actually for, or how to use them safely.

65179 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Willow, #597 of 1094 🔗

They’ll have just the one and hopefully wash it every night – or once a week – or when the kid remembers to bring it home …..

64964 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 21, #598 of 1094 🔗

From the moment they mandated them on public transport this was bound to happen. If you need them in this situation, then why not in that one? You’re endangering lives, etc etc. The govt have opened an enormous can of worms particularly with respect to the unions, it’s going to make life pretty difficult for them.

65003 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #599 of 1094 🔗

Why would this make life difficult for the government? It’s what they are leading up to. It will make life difficult for citizens.

64968 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #600 of 1094 🔗

The government really does get everything it deserves. If you say it is now too unsafe to go to a shop without a mask (and probably soon to be when you leave your front door like in Spain and Italy) you really are going to cause yourselves a lot of problems when dealing with the Teachers Union who don’t particularly want the country to do well economically and would celebrate a marxists revolution.

65004 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Darryl, #601 of 1094 🔗

Why would this be a problem for the government?

65024 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Julian, 1, #602 of 1094 🔗

People usually blame the government not the schools or the teachers. It might be different this time. But I expect the likes of the Telegraph to blame the government for not being tough enough with the union and the Guardian will say the government is endangering the lives of Teachers and pupils. The Union will get away largely blame free and children and parents will suffer.

65027 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Darryl, 2, #603 of 1094 🔗

I am not sure the government cares much what the Telegraph says. They’ll just say the science has changed.

65033 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Julian, 3, #604 of 1094 🔗

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the older kids wear masks. I personally think it would be purely for show and pointless but that doesn’t usually stop them. They just need to choose their favourite extremely risk adverse scientists to justify their approach.

65180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Darryl, #605 of 1094 🔗

Hopefully if the kids are told they’ve got to wear masks, they’ll rebel and find non-ways to wear them!

64979 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #606 of 1094 🔗

Ah, so good to see the authoritarian left-wing unions out in force, doing their best to destroy children’s lives. If the government caves on this, they will have lost the last remaining shred of credibility.

65082 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lms23, 3, #607 of 1094 🔗

No union advocating child abuse is ‘left wing’. It’s just stupid.

64992 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #608 of 1094 🔗

I hope millions of people take their kids out of schools.

65068 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #609 of 1094 🔗

I’m kind of amused to see this to be honest, this is Boris making a rod for his own back, pointlessly made masks mandatory, now has another union battle on his hands.

And this is after teachers got a pay raise!! When will they learn, unions are never happy, stand up to them!

65080 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #610 of 1094 🔗

The teaching union representatives should be ashamed of themselves in advocating child abuse like this.

If so – it’s a mark of how the teaching profession and its training has declined in professional substance over recent years, as it has been assaulted by similar governmental interference, and has bowed to it.

Of course, the idiocy (apart from the hard fact that children aren’t remotely susceptible to this virus) is that groups of chidren *have* been in schools all through this, without anti-social distancing or masks – and nothing has happened.

Pathetic!

65123 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #611 of 1094 🔗

OMG! I can’t believe that anyone working with children would propose such a thing…it’s tantamount to child abuse. I’ve already signed a petition against this on Change.org. I have grandchildren at school…if they were my children I would refuse to send them….these people are stark raving mad and downright dangerous!!!

64947 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 23, #612 of 1094 🔗

Otley–Sunday afternoon.

Went for my daily constitutional walk first along the river and then around the town.
Hundreds of people out and about. Kids in the playground and picnickers by the river and a noticeable lack of social distancing. Everybody enjoying themselves in the sunshine. Very, very few mask wearers. One noticeable one was a dad in his family group who was sporting his obviously new Leeds United mask. A very fetching blue and yellow jobby complete with logo, undoubtedly fresh from the supporters shop and perhaps excusable seeing as Leeds have secured promotion to the premier league. As football is played to empty stadiums these days I had this vision of this supporter wearing his mask as he sat in front of his TV, can of beer in hand, repeatedly sidelining his mask to take a swig and cheering his team to the rafters. Must try and quell my imagination, it sometimes runs away with me. Of course I should have realised that disaster capitalism doesn’t take long to kick in and I imagine all of the top teams will have produced supporters masks and will no doubt be charging premium prices for them. Mike Ashley, who owns Sports direct, employs ninety per cent of his employees on zero hour contracts (before Coroni laid sway to multitudes of them no doubt) and is also the proprietor of my home town football Team (Newcastle united), he will have wasted no time in this market I’m sure.

Plenty of people walking around town and the notorious body swerves very much on the decline. Young people on their smart phones and not looking where they were going were making a comeback which six months ago were a nuisance but now seen as refreshingly care free. I love it!

Went into ‘Just books’ to browse and asked if a particular book was in stock. ‘I’ll go and look for you’ said the very pleasant assistant who I’ve bought from before ‘but could I point out that we would like to you to wear a mask’. ‘No thank you’ I replied and was about to follow up with the rest of my Jehova witness response ‘I’m not interested’ but didn’t get the chance as she interrupted me with a smile and said ‘that’s OK but I have to ask’. She went and found the book, handed it to me and I politely asked if it was OK for me to browse it and she readily agreed. Whilst I was looking at the book three other people came in: two adults and a child and proceeded to rifle the shelves and made small talk with the assistant–great stuff!

Went into Yorkshire Trading, just to browse with no intention of buying. Staff unmasked and other customers masked–oh well!. Just walked around the isles and walked out again feeling generally that this was OK.

The local council, in their wisdom, have placed barriers on the high street to widen the path –and hence facilitate the great body swerve–but in effect it has narrowed the road resulting in more traffic congestion because of reduced road width. This is somewhat ironic as the public don’t seem to want to walk on the road and still squeeze by on the path. I nominate my local council for being one of the most inept in the country although I realise that there’s some stiff competition for this title

Judging by my lovely walk I’m encouraged that The whims and ways of our totally inept Prime minister are beginning to have less and less effect on people in my town. In Otley it may have something to do with the fact that there’s something about Yorkshire grit that doesn’t absorb all the crap dished up by the media and the politicians.
In Yorkshire they have a tendency to call a spade a spade and pretty soon now I fervently hope that Johnson’s reputation, if he ever had any, will be well and truly buried.

64971 ▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #613 of 1094 🔗

My favourite pub the Old Cock is still closed I think. I’ll shortly be seeing if Weegmans and Middlemiss are funny about the unmuzzled.

65000 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to arfurmo, 5, #614 of 1094 🔗

Mrs Hopkins went into Weegmans yesterday—-unmuzzled! Young man who served her smiled and made small talk, she was obviously a welcome sight!

64993 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #615 of 1094 🔗

Otley High St is a bottleneck to start with. Fancy narrowing it further! Glad you’ve had a good day out.

65113 ▶▶ Hugh, replying to Harry hopkins, #616 of 1094 🔗

There’s times I wish I lived in Yorkshire! Now if we could all be like Otley…

65121 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Harry hopkins, #617 of 1094 🔗

It’s pretty much a similar scenario over on the East Coast where I am…I think you’re right about Yorkshire folk…

65151 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Harry hopkins, #618 of 1094 🔗

no – in Yorkshire we call a spade a bloody shovel

65183 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, 1, #619 of 1094 🔗

Not true.
Proper Yorkshire folk know the difference between a spade and a shovel.That’s why they call a spade a bloody spade!

64969 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 5, #620 of 1094 🔗

Hi, just think it ought to be pointed out that Mayfair is in Westminster, not the City of London. They are both chock-a-block with deleterious banking wankers, so i can see how the mistake is easily made, but they are not one and the same. Ok thanks bye.

64986 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 3, #621 of 1094 🔗

And that photo of ‘Oxford Street’ is actually Regent Street. Come on Toby, you’re a north London boy who lives out west, but you should know your city better! It’s a cabbie’s worst nightmare! (i’m not a cabbie, but was a cycle courier, their other worst nightmare…).

65001 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Edgar Friendly, 4, #622 of 1094 🔗

To be fair to Toby the photo was from a newspaper which said it was Oxford Street. He was probably too busy unpacking and fetching his son from friends to check!

64976 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 11, #623 of 1094 🔗

I stayed with my folk Friday night and we went for a meal at a pub in the New Forest on Saturday. They had set up a marquee outside but left all the tables where they were inside (which was good), but had put up plastic screens between each one (bad) so it was hard to squeeze in and sit down. Waiters all wearing masks. One way system in operation. Dystopian level 9/10. We won’t go again until it’s back to normal. I suppose they’re getting as many people in as they can (plus more outside) to try and recoup the money they’ve lost over the last 3 months, which is understandable. The waiters looked like students, probably on minimum wage.

65005 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Castro, 9, #624 of 1094 🔗

Put the same scene into october, november. That business is doomed.

And the short sightedness of places like it is everwhere. Buying greenhouses isnt going to work. Sure you can wastefully heat them… but sit in a condensated green house in the cold with somekind of scorching heater above the table? These businesses fighting so hard to stay afloat are tragic.

65186 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #625 of 1094 🔗

On the other hand, marquees might be cheap to hire because they’re not needed for weddings. Everyone trying to stay afloat!

65072 ▶▶ Gtec, replying to Jonathan Castro, 15, #626 of 1094 🔗

Have been for a rural walk and a beer near where I live in Essex, and the pub, which is popular for its food, was open again; to me, it wasn’t remotely normal.

They too have a marquee in what was the car park (which is now in a field opposite), but wasn’t in use as the place whilst looking busy, wasn’t really. Usually at this time of year the it is heaving because of its popularity.

The pub has a one-way system as many do, with screens all around the bar where you order and pay. Drinks for outside are in disposable cups or glasses (which I’ve always detested – it’s rather like drinking champagne out of beer mug, it’s just not right!).

Outside at the widely spaced tables it was okay, but you just can’t shake off the feeling that all is not normal – especially as the chap in front of me queuing for the bar was wearing a mask; I was very tempted to ask how he was going to drink his beer, but managed to hold my tongue!

I am finding this abnormality increasingly difficult to take, and certainly cannot reconcile it to the very reduced threat from C-19.

Ridiculously, I felt more ‘free’ at the beginning of all this because although there has supposedly been an ‘easing’ of restrictions, other restrictions are being added all the time, such as one-way systems and masks in shops.

I no longer go to my office as I did occasionally as now I need permission from two managers; its two max in a lift with one way in, one out, and the same goes for the floors themselves – depressingly regimented and oppressive, and not a place I want to be, even if I could see colleagues.

In short, nothing is normal, and it doesn’t look as though normality is going to return anytime soon, not even for Christmas! What a depressing thought.

65085 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Gtec, 2, #627 of 1094 🔗

Yes.

65289 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Gtec, #628 of 1094 🔗

The Fascist pigs hate normal.Live as normally as you possibly can. Every morsel of normal is a kick in their foul faces.

64998 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #629 of 1094 🔗

Well, at least they are honest about lying!

To align with the modelling approach used for our headline figures, we have updated the calculation of the 14-day estimates this week. Previously we based these on each participant’s most recent test result in the 14-day period, now we have updated this to look at whether they have had any positive result during that period. This has slightly increased the estimates, as some people have a positive test followed by a negative test within the 14-day period. These people would be counted as a positive in our estimates this week (because they have a positive test result during the 2 week period), but a negative (as their last test was negative) last week.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/england24july2020

via Simon Dolan.

65011 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #630 of 1094 🔗

Just picked my jaw up off the floor! So now you test negative but are still marked as positive if you previously tested positive!!

65013 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sarigan, 3, #631 of 1094 🔗

And presumably they’ll change the rules again next week so they’re still counted as positive!

65022 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #632 of 1094 🔗

The managers of this scandal are just THE WORSE, despicable lying, *expletive* That’s an understatement.

65229 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, #633 of 1094 🔗

Obfuscation is all part of the game.

65025 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, #634 of 1094 🔗

Check your email!

65238 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Two-Six, #635 of 1094 🔗

Checked and replied. Sorry been off email past two days.

65017 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #636 of 1094 🔗

must… get… the… numbers… up… by… any… means….

65043 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #637 of 1094 🔗

Yes – I’ve been tracking numbers from this source, and have been intending to do a post on their totally inconsistent illogicality, whereby *actual* indicators show falling death rates and hospital admissions, whilst their alleged ‘cases’ go up in proportion. It’s a f.ing innumerate f. up – like those PHE figures. And that’s before factoring the questionability of the tests used

But this sort of bagged shite – remember – is what has determined stuff like arbitrarily locking up Leicester!

65050 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #638 of 1094 🔗

This happened 2 weeks ago I believe, which explained why suddenly cases in that dataset went from 1 in 3500 or something to suddenly being 1 in 2300… now 1 in 2000. They’re just manufacturing their next spike and next imposition in our lives.

Edit: Or was there another fiddling they did 2 weeks ago?

65066 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark II, 3, #639 of 1094 🔗

Exactly. The baseline 3 weeks ago (of 1 in 3,900 if I recall – but relating to some weeks earlier) would, by my calculation, looking at other information, result in about 1 in 10000 by now, since infection was declining.

But no – the counting of homeless RNA strands led to the opposite conclusion.

Well,well, well!!

65224 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #640 of 1094 🔗

Fuck me, this purgatory will never end

65006 Hoppy Uniatz, 28, #641 of 1094 🔗

Out for an exploratory walk today down Sloane Street and Knightsbridge, normally absolutely recession-proof. Probably no more than one in 10 or 15 people in the street were wearing masks, but the shops which had opened on Sunday looked deadly quiet – with the exception of Peter Jones, where a long, socially distanced queue of masked people were patiently waiting to be let in.

Honourable mention to Frank the Sloane Square Big Issue seller, who told me at length that the whole thing was pointless, the pandemic was over, and it was the Government covering its back! Also to the nice Algerian man at Caffe Nero, who agreed that it was an episode of national hysteria, like the McCarthyite era.

65031 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 8, #642 of 1094 🔗

London is a ghost town!
https://www.webcamtaxi.com/en/england/london/london-traffic.html
And the supermarkets are full of ghouls!

65037 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jonathan Castro, 4, #643 of 1094 🔗
65047 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Two-Six, #644 of 1094 🔗

Cool 🙂

65032 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 7, #645 of 1094 🔗

Looked at my ‘Neighbourhood’ app earlier. Some goon posted how someone had the audacity of trying to get into our local Tesco Extra but was refused because he wasn’t wearing a muzzle. Not one iota of common sense or reality check in the comments, all were from adult baybees who thought it horrific that the unmuzzled guy was prepared to SPREAD CORONA AND KILL EVERYONE IN THE SHOP!!!!! I’m hoping that it was this response because comments aren’t anonymous on the site……

65038 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to T. Prince, 8, #646 of 1094 🔗

This kind of shit is what your Neighbourhood app was designed for.

65061 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Two-Six, 8, #647 of 1094 🔗

Some wit 3 months ago thought it a good idea if we all signed up to the app in order to ‘look after each other’ in lockdown. Signed up on that basis to show good neighborliness but it turns out that nobody needs looking after because we’re all GROWN UPS. Yes, used mainly for tripe like that and Thursday night reminders when local morons were still clapping the NHS. Inhabited mainly by yaying Karens and their testosterone free, supine husbands…..

65051 ▶▶ Bella, replying to T. Prince, 13, #648 of 1094 🔗

Wonder why they weren’t so hysterical last week. Is the virus only deadly when muzzles are mandatory?

65054 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella, 6, #649 of 1094 🔗

I bet most of these people who are saying crap like this were all down the pub last week licking each other’s faces.
Or windows

65065 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Two-Six, #650 of 1094 🔗

What type of pubs do you inhabit!?

65076 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to T. Prince, 1, #651 of 1094 🔗

Ones where people lick each other’s faces

65067 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Bella, 5, #652 of 1094 🔗

Weird isn’t it. It’ll get deadlier when we have to wear gloves and muzzles when ever we set foot outside….and these twerps will still lap it up.

65288 ▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, #653 of 1094 🔗

… but two days ago, he wouldn’t have.

65041 Nic, replying to Nic, 20, #654 of 1094 🔗

If people were dropping like flies I could understand the panic ,but they are not do what is this all about?

65045 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nic, 8, #655 of 1094 🔗

A deadly virus, keep up.

65048 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Two-Six, 4, #656 of 1094 🔗

LOL

65056 ▶▶▶ Wesley, replying to Two-Six, 15, #657 of 1094 🔗

Yeah, it’s sooo deadly you need a test to know if you’ve got it.

65115 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Two-Six, 3, #658 of 1094 🔗

So deadly scientists are advocating infecting healthy people with it to test a vaccine….

65063 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nic, 14, #659 of 1094 🔗

Such a deadly virus that it requires a constant media propaganda campaign!

65287 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to IMoz, 1, #660 of 1094 🔗

The media poison campaign is the deadly virus.
Sceptics have a natural immunity.

65049 Two-Six, #661 of 1094 🔗

Tonight live at 9:30, Mark Windows layin in down.
https://windowsontheworld.net/live-shows/
With live chat! Join in the “fun”.

65062 Paul, replying to Paul, 24, #662 of 1094 🔗

Let me check if I’ve got this right,

Go into cafe for takeaway sandwich – mask needed.

Go into cafe for same sandwich but eat in cafe – no mask needed unless going to counter before sitting down to eat.

And the overwhelming majority of the English and Scottish public are okay with this sort of lunacy ?,I’ve felt for a while now that I have been left behind on the wrong planet,I’m pretty sure of it now.

So could I go in Tesco,buy a Kit Kat and then sit on the shop floor and eat it and not need a mask ?,or does going to the checkout first mean I would need a mask ?.

What if I go into my local takeaway and sit on the chairs inside before going to the counter for my order and eat another Kit Kat,does that mean I don’t need a mask ?.

Sorry if this all sounds inane but I’m trying to think of some scenarios to put into use next time I go into town.

65069 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Paul, 13, #663 of 1094 🔗

What if you crawl in, this might mean no mask as you aren’t quite standing or sitting. Or how about you get a long stick with a hook on the end and sort of fish your takeaway out the door and fish the cash back, will you need a mask, or will the stick need a mask or a blue glove on the end…Tricky innit.

65087 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Two-Six, 4, #664 of 1094 🔗

It’s this kind of humour that lifts my spirit!

65070 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Paul, 5, #665 of 1094 🔗

You have summed it up very well!

65071 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Paul, 9, #666 of 1094 🔗

No, not inane. Like me, I think you’re struggling with the lack of common sense, logic, science, critical thinking………..

65083 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to T. Prince, 5, #667 of 1094 🔗

Seems like people have no ability to think for themselves, or perhaps more importantly their families any longer.

65101 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Paul, 8, #668 of 1094 🔗

Right planet, wrong multiverse. We’ve accidentally slipped into the Clownworld version of reality. I’m trying to work out how we travel back to the reality we belong to.

65109 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #669 of 1094 🔗

If you find the way back – please don’t leave us behind

65125 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Major Panic, 4, #670 of 1094 🔗

Don’t worry I’ll post the directions on this site.

I’m an avid listener of the Mysterious Universe podcast, and – seriously – Ben and Arron’s stories of Bigfoot, alien abductions, time slips and so on make much more sense than what I’ve been reading on the MSM sites these past few months.

I’ve given up looking at the news sites now (I don’t watch TV and don’t have a ‘Smart’ phone – I had an iphone a few years ago, but it was zombifying me so I took a lump hammer to it. Bloody hell, that was satisfying). So I’ve avoided all the propaganda.

I get all my information from sites recommended by Hitchens and this site.

But as of this week, I’ve given up on the BBC website and other news outlets, as they are too insane.

65117 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #671 of 1094 🔗

That’s along the lines of what I’ve been thinking today,I don’t think any explanation is too far fetched now.

65139 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #672 of 1094 🔗

Right planet, wrong multiverse.

Some one needs to check if Africa has got Fjords…

65312 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Paul, #673 of 1094 🔗

You can’t sit on the chairs outside your takeaway but you can sit on someone elses.

65078 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 4, #674 of 1094 🔗

Observation enter cafe with mask on – order coffee etc, take coffee etc to table and sit down. Take mask off and enjoy a coffee and chat for 40 minutes. Put mask back on and go for a walk outside.

65088 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Steeve, 2, #675 of 1094 🔗

More and more out walking on the streets here wearing their nappies,I honestly think some of them wear them at home aswell.

65108 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Paul, 11, #676 of 1094 🔗

To be honest Paul I got side blinded in another café today. I have been twice and all good. I walk in with my wife and I go to order a coffee and tea cake for both of us. It was almost empty!!!! His first words “Good morning what would you like to order?” No not those friendly words! I’m in there thinking everything looks relaxed standing behind the counter. First words to me “Have you got your mask” So having got to the counter he wanted me to put the mask on to order!! Taken by surprise I mumbled no. Silence “Ok I will serve you this time” That did not help! said I would take my custom else where. Wife a little embarrassed! Anyway I went back later to explain things but they were still genuinely angry with me! Said they do not take orders at the table! even though they bring drinks to you, just about got on to exemptions but no softening. The law has changed! Why did they not just ask us to sit at the table and come and take our order? There were 2 customers and two staff in at the time. Very very sad!

65112 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Steeve, 9, #677 of 1094 🔗

It’s just utter lunacy and there is an increasing amount of nastiness with aswell,places like that deserve to go under.

65122 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Paul, 9, #678 of 1094 🔗

The sad thing is last week it was almost normal! On the couch was a grandad with his family and grandchildren have a lovely time together! Interesting you have observed more nastiness!

65127 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Steeve, 9, #679 of 1094 🔗

Yes,a week ago it was close to normal in my town and it seemed a very hopeful sign the tide was turning but since the day before the mask law came in hysteria has built up rapidly.Two days before the mask law a nasty masked up couple had a go at my wife in Matalan because she wasn’t covering her face !.

65191 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steeve, 8, #680 of 1094 🔗

And Horrid Jihnson son says face nappies are helping people to operate normally.
What galaxy is he in?

65207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to annie, 6, #681 of 1094 🔗

The Twitter galaxy. I think it was Poppy the other day who said that Cummings’s idea of what the man on the Clapham omnibus is thinking is based on reading Twitter and probably Facebook and other things like that. I think that was right on the money.

65272 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 1, #682 of 1094 🔗

Pinhead Galaxy.

65130 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steeve, 11, #683 of 1094 🔗

To the question:-

“Have you got your mask”

I have been wondering if one should reply dolefully:- ” Sadly I don’t need one, I’m going to die anyway.” (brave smile)

65134 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Ned of the Hills, #684 of 1094 🔗

I will try that next time!

65161 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #685 of 1094 🔗

Sadly, as a phsycopath, face coverings make me extremely violent – so they won’t let me wear one

65138 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Steeve, 1, #686 of 1094 🔗

Sit at table get coffee served. Pour into own cup. Leave.

Not the point I realise but points out the absurdity to them.

65196 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Steeve, 1, #687 of 1094 🔗

I thought cafes were supposed to do table service only. It really is confusing!

65309 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, #688 of 1094 🔗

Since last Friday cafes can do takeaway as well but those customers are supposed to mask up unlike the seated ones (because?). Nobody bothers anyway in my favourite, including the waiting staff.

65158 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Paul, 3, #689 of 1094 🔗

It’s just yet more virtue signalling. I’m passing people when walking in the countryside with them on.

65090 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 9, #690 of 1094 🔗

Great speech – catch it before it gets memory holed!
Prof Dolores Cahill Speaks at Time For Change Protest (Yellow Vest Ireland)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQzdvxUiJCc

65131 ▶▶ Alice, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #691 of 1094 🔗

Is there Yellow Vest England? Yellow Vest UK?

65142 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Alice, #692 of 1094 🔗

In England, it’s Yellow String-Vest-and-Hanky-on-Head.

65149 ▶▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Mr Dee, #693 of 1094 🔗

Oh… I was hoping someone would say, “Yes, there is”, or “No, but we could start one!”

65153 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Alice, #694 of 1094 🔗

Ok. No, but we could start one!

65156 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, #695 of 1094 🔗

Actually, I saw a small group of UK yellow vests canvassing in Oswestry town centre last summer , protesting about the slowness of Brexit, so there may well be an existing organisation.

65363 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #696 of 1094 🔗

If you go to savethevideo.com you can download and save from nearly every platform so can archive it for later.

65100 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 16, #697 of 1094 🔗

Its not only Central London that’s a ghost town but also outer London as well!

Mr Bart and I went to Epping Forest today for a walk and while in the past the forest would have smattering of people and especially families, today it was almost deserted there were parts of the walk we did where we were the only two people in the forest!

Underground was almost deserted even more during our way home.

Had lunch at Theydon Bois – first wanted to go to a pub, saw the NHS T&T sign so walked out. Ended up in a sandwich/bagel shop where it was positively normal – staff weren’t wearing any muzzles and cash only (their machine had broken down).

65243 ▶▶ Christopher, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #698 of 1094 🔗

Hi Bart.. We may have crossed paths there today , myself and the Mrs get our salt beef from the Theydon Bagel shop , always very generously filled and the coffees not bad . The Theydon bagel shop and their other branch in my manor in nearby Loughton have been an oasis of normality since march as they have stayed open the entire time during lockdown.
As you say everyone socialising and eating together with hardly any muzzles although my partner did have a chat with a guy in the queue who was muzzled and so was his very young daughter despite us all being outside. I find this very disturbing and as we all say on this forum it is child abuse pure and simple . I couldn’t bring myself to talk to him despite him being very chatty and friendly mumbling through the muzzle to my better half as I had to resist the urge to ask him ” why the F#ck are you waring a mask outside ? and what do you think you are doing to that poor child muzzling her like that you mind controlled goon ”
I don’t want to embarrass the Mrs as she is too nice and hates confrontation so i went and sat facing away from them while my anger subsided.
Epping Forest has been largely mobbed with visitors pretty much the entire lockdown btw.

65304 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Christopher, 2, #699 of 1094 🔗

It was our first visit there, stumbled upon it by accident and it was a great meal – cheap, filling and good coffee too.

I know how you feel about people especially children being muzzled as I always shudder and wince every time my sister and brother-in-law posts photos of their daughters muzzled.

Epping Forest is huge, even bigger than Richmond and I suspect Mr Bart and I ended up in the quiet bits of the forest.

65378 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Christopher, #700 of 1094 🔗

It wasn’t at the start because at the height of the madness the corporation of London closed all the car parks,made the roads through red routes and put cones and tree trunks everywhere to stop people parking.And just a pedantic point,they are beigels,bagels is a horrible Americanism.

65269 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #701 of 1094 🔗

You are NOT obligated to leave personal details for track and trace! Gov.uk states as such!

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/maintaining-records-of-staff-customers-and-visitors-to-support-nhs-test-and-trace

If someone does not wish to share their details, or provides incorrect information

Although this is voluntary, please encourage customers and visitors to share their details in order to support NHS Test and Trace and advise them that this information will only be used where necessary to help stop the spread of COVID-19.

If a customer or visitor informs you that they do not want their details shared for the purposes of NHS Test and Trace, they can choose to opt out, and if they do so you should not share their information used for booking purposes with NHS Test and Trace.

The accuracy of the information provided will be the responsibility of the individual who provides it. You do not have to verify an individual’s identity for NHS Test and Trace purposes.

65300 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DavidC, 2, #702 of 1094 🔗

They claimed it was “required” and we know its bunkum but Mr Bart and I were desperately hungry and didn’t stomach a fight with the pub management. Their loss was the bagel shop’s gain.

65107 Lynne, #703 of 1094 🔗

I was in Edinburgh on Friday….like a ghost town. Weeds growing everywhere, business premises boarded up…..very sad to see and barely anyone in the shops. Wearing masks means majority continue to shop from home. I did not wear a mask and was challenged in a well known shoe shop where in-fact I was the only customer. I will not be returning to Edinburgh, my beautiful capital city, until we are back to some kind of normality……the wearing of masks is far from normal.

65110 Paul E, replying to Paul E, 46, #704 of 1094 🔗

The mail’s commentator is quite right about the blow to the high street that the mask edict has been. I am a partner in John Lewis, working in the Oxford street store. We have been open again for a couple of weeks and trade was I’m glad to say much better than expected, indeed it began to feel a bit like normal apart from a few silly pantomime routines we were supposed to go through which quickly seemed to get forgotten….That was until last Friday, suddenly the place was near deserted again as people who did not want to wear a mask opted to stay away, Well I myself will only go to a shop now if I absolutely have to. This is a dreadful measure anyway you look at i,t but as an aid to our recovery it’s like a gardener sewing some seeds, the just as they start to take shoot, going out to trample them with his wellies

65120 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul E, 27, #705 of 1094 🔗

I’ve been boycotting shops since 15 June due to all the antisocial distancing nonsense. The mandatory muzzles has only served to harden my boycott. I feel sorry for the people who work in retail but I will not shed any tears for the CEOs if the shops go bust – their cowardice will be their undoing. If they were serious about wanting to keep their businesses open and be allowed to earn an honest living they would have been fighting the government tooth and nail to stop the antisocial distancing and mandatory muzzling but they didn’t and unfortunately they will have to pay the price.

65141 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #706 of 1094 🔗

I agree that business leaders in general have been pathetic

65144 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 12, #707 of 1094 🔗

The most depressing thing is that the leadership of civil society has been a pathetic apology for the human race.

65157 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 13, #708 of 1094 🔗

They have been agree and its not just them but even museum and heritage directors, restauranteurs, those in charge of cultural institutions have also been silent over the assault of their own sectors.

Cowards the lot of them.

65145 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #709 of 1094 🔗

Ditto Bart. I had my first non-food shop experience since lockdown on Thursday – hunting for make-up supplies. No shop assistants, no testers – what’s the point. I get so much online anyway (we are a family of 4 and none of us drives) I might as well go the whole hog!

65155 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #710 of 1094 🔗

It’s bonkers and recently I had to buy some concealer for returning to work so simply did it online ordering the usual shade that I used and it arrived 2 days later. Job done.

65124 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Paul E, 6, #711 of 1094 🔗

In the UK, that damage done by the government is to a good extent deliberate though, to ensure a bigger no deal Brexit bounce off a lower base next year.
In the RoW, it’s just a sofar inexplicable madness.

65126 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #712 of 1094 🔗

Jay – that is the best explanation for what is going on that I’ve heard so far. It makes perfect sense! I’d completely forgotten about Brexit since this mess started.

65132 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Paul E, 22, #713 of 1094 🔗

Strange how the CBI has been rather quiet on the topic and the CEOs of larger stores also. They should be storming Downing street raising their issues. Their failure to do so will have consequences.

65194 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Sue, 6, #714 of 1094 🔗

‘Top economists’ and business organisation leaders have been absolutely pathetic to complicit in this from the start, everywhere.
Same goes for most business owners.
The head of the Bavarian hotel&restaurant federation has done nothing but publicly lick the most strictest lockdown fanatic Bavarian PM’s ar*e all the time, despite them all now on the brink of going broke.

65152 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Paul E, 1, #715 of 1094 🔗

Absolutely – and all to benefit the big money part of the economy (Pharma, Data, Finance and On-line Mega Retail)

65198 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to RickH, 6, #716 of 1094 🔗

Other than online mega retail, there are too many losers in all industries, and the total losses are bigger than the total gains, even for big pharma, and in the long run anyway, with bankrupt governments and economies shrunk by 25%.

It simply doesn’t make sense.

65205 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #717 of 1094 🔗

Depends what their agenda is.

65188 ▶▶ annie, replying to Paul E, 1, #718 of 1094 🔗

Exactly. From the horse’s mouth. Thank you. But it is sad…

65367 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Paul E, #719 of 1094 🔗

Thanks for the feedback.

When will the retail ‘bosses’ snap out of they submissive views and tackle the Government? Sadly JohnLewis/Waitrose failed to state publicly that ‘we will not police masks in our shops’, Tesco and others did.

65128 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #720 of 1094 🔗

Zombie Town, Zombie Town all the spooks walking around
Never smile, never laugh
All you see’s a twisted frown…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9k7YexBeu8

65148 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #721 of 1094 🔗

Oxford Town, Oxford Town
Ev’rybody’s got their heads bowed down
The sun don’t shine above the ground
Ain’t a-goin’ down to Oxford Town

He went down to Oxford Town
Guns and clubs followed him down
All because his face was brown
Better get away from Oxford Town

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb4PsXncNV8

65135 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #722 of 1094 🔗

We’re stuck in a lockdown work from home purgatory
As the world reopens, people working from home feel stuck in a lockdown rut

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lockdown-work-from-home-fatigue?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

When she’s not peering out the window, Bella spends around six hours a day aimlessly scrolling on Twitter. She used to work in central London, but now she is among the thousands of people stuck at home every day with nowhere to go, and finding it almost impossible to concentrate.

Unchecked long-term chronic stress that forces the body into perpetual survival mode can lead to mental health problems such as depression or anxiety, and has been linked to cardiovascular dysfunctions, diabetes, cancer and autoimmune syndromes

Based on population norm studies, women are more able to recover their resilience after prolonged periods of stress, Swart notes, whereas men are better at coping with an “acute stressful event” but need proper recovery time afterwards. Put simply, men are more likely to suffer from higher episodes of “spacing out”.

65219 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #723 of 1094 🔗

Cabin fever, it gets everyone in the end.

65349 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nobody2020, #724 of 1094 🔗

Great post

65426 ▶▶ jazzman, replying to Nobody2020, #725 of 1094 🔗

As a home worker since the start of lockdown, I’ve suffered from an increasingly chronic lack of focus and it’s interesting to understand a bit more of the neurological basis of it in terms of stress responses. Someone at work shared another related link which I found helpful, not least because it helped me not beat myself up for being unable to concentrate on work!

One of the really stressful things with my employer is the continual kicking of the return to work can down the road. It’s as if they don’t actually want anyone to come back to the office. The narrative runs “if you really must, here’s the long list of restrictions you can expect”. Sounds like an absolutely sanitised hell-hole, to which it’s likely mask-wearing throughout the day will be added. I will give it all a go once we are able to return, but can see a strongly-worded email to the petty bureaucrats who make the rules when, as I expect, it proves completely intolerable.

65143 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 31, #726 of 1094 🔗

Speaking of muzzles:

Mr Bart and I travelling on the Underground today, saw two families together – everyone muzzled including the children. It was appalling, youngest I suspect is around 2 years old as kid was in the buggy and dad gave kid his phone so s/he could be quiet. That’s double child abuse in my opinion – muzzling up kid and just shoving a screen into kid’s hands rather than communicating and interacting the old fashioned way.

Again had to log into Arsebook to reply to a message and had the misfortune of seeing a sanctimonious post from someone I know bitching about non-muzzled people on public transport. Many people agreed with him, most offensive post however came from someone we both know casting aspersions on young people especially not muzzled and advocating fines for those who are exempt but are not wearing their lanyards. I couldn’t stand it and replied by saying that even young people have hidden disabilities we don’t know and many people who are exempt are not comfortable about broadcasting their conditions so we should just mind our own business.

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

65203 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #727 of 1094 🔗

Well done you!

65206 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #728 of 1094 🔗

Thanks. She tried to backpedal and claim that the lanyards can raise awareness. I retorted that I don’t want to broadcast my condition and be treated differently, I just want to be able to go about my business quietly.

65264 ▶▶ James007, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #729 of 1094 🔗

Logging into “Arsebook” – made me laugh out loud 😀 Logging into that site makes me feel lonely.

65305 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to James007, 4, #730 of 1094 🔗

Got that from someone here so not my own I’m afraid 🙂 I call Twitter “twatter” and Instagram becomes “narcissistgram”

66632 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Bart Simpson, #731 of 1094 🔗

😀 What so you call LinkedIn?

65147 Cheezilla, 9, #732 of 1094 🔗

I don’t know how someone controlled you
They bought and sold you

I look at the world and I notice it’s turning
While my guitar gently weeps
With every mistake we must surely be learning
Still my guitar gently weeps

I don’t know why you were diverted
You were perverted, too
I don’t know how you were inverted
No one alerted you

I look at you all see the love there that’s sleeping
While my guitar gently weeps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8rVI7AMKiY

65150 Nel, replying to Nel, 4, #733 of 1094 🔗

10 Questions…this is an excellent website:

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/the-antidote-to-covidaphobia/

65351 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nel, 3, #734 of 1094 🔗

Great Article. A must read.

— 4. A question for Prime Minister Boris Johnson and President Macron: Why did you agree to your economy being subjected to 100% Lockdown when only circa 1 in 6 of your populations are defined as ‘vulnerable’ to death from Covid19….and 90% of them aren’t economically active? All of this data was available to both of you….why didn’t you overrule the idiot modellers? As achievers of the highest Office in the land, The People have the right to expect, at the very least, your competence in such matters.

— 5. Another question for Prime Minister Boris Johnson and President Macron: Both your countries lost in the region of $3trillion US in gdp as a result of Lockdown….this is (for both of you) roughly 12 times the cost of defending your NHS and Assurance Maladie respectively: so why did you opt to screw up the economy rather than invest in the national insurance infrastructure? Please bear in mind that this is an ethical as well as economic question: use both sides of the paper, and avoid woffle, as examples of same will be deducted from your scores.

— 7. A question for Boris Johnson and Emmanuel Macron: one of the few things all virologists can agree upon is that single-layer face masks are 98% ineffective in controlling the spread of C19. So why as of Monday are we all legally required to wear these abominations while in shops?

65154 anti_corruption_tsar, replying to anti_corruption_tsar, 17, #735 of 1094 🔗

Just back from a week’s holiday with my parents. Have my lanyard for not wearing a mask – I will never surrender my liberty to the fools that rule over us. Sadly my brother and family have bought into the propaganda lock stock and barrel. Was asked why I wasn’t wearing a mask in the village coop this evening. Stopped at the motorway services on the way back and pleasingly was never asked why I wasn’t wearing one. About 80% of people were wearing one.

65160 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to anti_corruption_tsar, 16, #736 of 1094 🔗

20% non compliance is actually quite promising at this early stage.

65173 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #737 of 1094 🔗

I agree Mr Dee.

65182 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to anti_corruption_tsar, 5, #738 of 1094 🔗

Keep it up.

65163 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #739 of 1094 🔗

Over-40s in UK to pay more tax under plans to fix social care crisis

Exclusive: Matt Hancock is advocate of plan to raise tax to cover cost of care in later life

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/26/uk-ministers-looking-at-plans-to-raise-taxes-for-over-40s-to-pay-for-social-care

65185 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Basics, 5, #740 of 1094 🔗

Don’t worry, the vaccine will take care of that.

65192 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 3, #741 of 1094 🔗

Guess all these private pensions that we and employers have been encouraged to pay into won’t be enough.

65353 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Basics, 5, #742 of 1094 🔗

Why discriminate against the over 40’s?

Hancock your incompetence is the result of our economy in the doldrums. You could have used all this ‘magic money’ from the ‘magic money tree’ to fix social care once and for all instead you were complicit in locking down this country with no proper exit plan.

65374 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 1, #743 of 1094 🔗

That is my thinking too. He just rubbed out 12.5 billi9n of NHS debt with a snap of his fingers and stood in front of us to take the applause. Now he chooses this Logan’s run of an action. It is punative against the over 40s. Arbitrary age, why not above 33? People will know better than me – doesn’t over 40s hit his Conservative voters most?

65164 swedenborg, 15, #744 of 1094 🔗

Not sure if this article been on the forum before. Once again Imperial College model gets 10 times more deaths than in reality
https://www.aier.org/article/the-models-were-wildly-wrong-about-reopening-too/

“Coronavirus cases and deaths have spiked in two of the modeled states, Florida and California. As of the week of July 20 th , both are averaging between roughly 100 and 150 deaths per day. Yet even with this “second wave” spike, Florida and California are only showing about one-tenth of the projected deaths that the Imperial College modelers predicted for this time back in May.In New York, Washington, and Massachusetts, daily death counts have dropped to the low double-digits and remain a tiny fraction of the ICL predictions for mid-July.”

 Florida is interesting 223,000 pos SARSCoV2 tests in three weeks (10000 day) and no change in hospitalizations or ICU occupancy state wide.

65165 RickH, replying to RickH, 19, #745 of 1094 🔗

I was earlier watching the John Wilson Orchestra at the 2012 Proms.

Before that I was talking to my daughter about the pointless waste of time and resources going into not actually performing normally in her area of theatre, dance and music

Both reminders of what the primordial slime in Westminster have visited upon us in terms of denial of life.

There is no virus that could wreak this sort of damage to civic life as this infection by protozoic sludge so vividly characterised by Bullingdon Boy and pals.

65187 ▶▶ annie, replying to RickH, 10, #746 of 1094 🔗

Please do not insult protozoa by such compsrisons, they’ve never done me any harm!

65174 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to swedenborg, 4, #748 of 1094 🔗

Do COVIDS smell like Pedegree Chum?

65199 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 3, #749 of 1094 🔗

The “94% success rate” sounds impressive but then they say the “next step” is to train the dogs to tell the difference between Covid and influenza…

So perhaps not much better than a thermal camera at least for now.

65202 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to guy153, 3, #750 of 1094 🔗

one woof for covids, two for flu, sounds good to me

65208 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Two-Six, 1, #751 of 1094 🔗

what if you have both?

65216 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nobody2020, #752 of 1094 🔗

ummmmm

65285 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 1, #753 of 1094 🔗

WOOF.
WOOF WOOF.

65233 ▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to swedenborg, 8, #754 of 1094 🔗

What happened to the German octopus who can predict football results? Perhaps they could wheel it out to predict the death toll next time. Would probably be more accurate than Fergie, and a big plus that the max it could predict would be 8.

65354 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to swedenborg, 1, #755 of 1094 🔗

Anything is better than the unreliable PCR test.

65193 Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 5, #756 of 1094 🔗

This looks like a good read: Mark Windows was reading this report tonight.
“A World at Risk An Annual Report on Global preparedness for health emergencies”
Global Preparedness Monitoring Board

https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/GPMB_annualreport_2019.pdf

Here is a link to tonight’s show from Mark

https://www.spreaker.com/user/markwindows/the-mask-pandemic

65215 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, 1, #757 of 1094 🔗

It really is RIGHT ON THE MONEY..A must listen/read

65210 wendy, replying to wendy, 7, #758 of 1094 🔗

I just noticed something I found slightly odd on Worldometer for Spain’s cases figure. It says these are made up of PCR and antibody tests? Does that seem odd to anyone else

65220 ▶▶ guy153, replying to wendy, 6, #759 of 1094 🔗

Yes I think someone said they were just adding the two together on here a while back. I think the UK also counts positive tests even if it’s the same person getting tested three days in a row because they need a negative before they’re allowed to go back to work. Every little helps!

65234 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to guy153, 3, #760 of 1094 🔗

Isn’t it all a mess!

65244 ▶▶ RickH, replying to wendy, 3, #761 of 1094 🔗

“Does that seem odd …”

Not at all. It’s par for the course : totally meaningless ‘data’ in support of a total fiction.

Worldometer figures are meanigless in terms of useful information.

65291 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to wendy, 9, #762 of 1094 🔗

Covid testing was supposed to be a tool to help us, it has rapidly become the stick being used to beat us all. I will do all I can to avoid going anywhere near the monstrous test and trace system. The politicians do not know how to interpret and use the PCR Covid test results, they treat them as black and white when they are actually 50 shades of grey. They keep reporting millions of new cases around the world and using it as a reason for ever more destructive control measures.
However, it could just be, that this virus, in the words of Johnny Cash ‘ I’ve been everywhere, man
Crossed the desert’s bare, man
I’ve breathed the mountain air, man ….. I’ve been everywhere’
Just perhaps???? we are now like a dog chasing its tail with this virus. When these countries find hundreds of thousand of new cases (cases + dodgy test results) does it not occur to them that it might just be proving it is already everywhere?

65303 ▶▶ TJN, replying to wendy, 1, #763 of 1094 🔗

Hi Wendy. Good to see you back. I don’t know if you’ve seen but on this day’s forum Biker has sincerely apologised for his comments on Friday, and hopes you read his post. It’s way down below (i.e. earlier). Clearly he’s had an awful time of it.

65211 Nobody2020, 3, #764 of 1094 🔗

This may seem like an extreme comparison but some of the mask shamers on social media remind me of this story. I guess you could read it as “Mother asked son not to wear a mask”:

Islamic State militant ‘killed his own mother in Syria’
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/08/islamic-state-militant-killed-mother-syria-monitor

The resident said Isis told people she was killed for apostasy. “This was the first time someone has executed his own mother,” he said. “People are shocked that someone can kill his own mother in such cold blood. He was known to be a bad apple but nobody imagined he would go so far as to kill his own mother. Everybody is asking how they could have brainwashed him so much?”

And the definition of Apostasy:

Apostasy (/əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία ápostasía, “a defection or revolt”) is the formal disaffiliation from, abandonment of, or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion that is contrary to one’s previous religious beliefs.

65213 nfw, replying to nfw, 6, #765 of 1094 🔗

Mouth Arrest Devices? Gloves? Why is the gummint determined to make everybody look like a muslim woman?

65240 ▶▶ RickH, replying to nfw, 7, #766 of 1094 🔗

I lived, and was active, in a community where the majority were moslems.

Never, ever, did I come across anyone who was as weird/stupid/repulsive as the besuited scions of the Tory government – or as antagonistic to the basic tenets of a democratic British society. Never did I feel wary of people that I passed in the street – whatever their dress.

It seems that Eton is the real breeding ground of foreign anti-democratic sentiment and the dangerous threats to society.

But – to be honest, we knew that.

65221 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #767 of 1094 🔗

Carl Vernon is losing friends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCuU_HZ31FM
Wise words.

65357 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #768 of 1094 🔗

Brilliant.

65228 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 7, #769 of 1094 🔗

Feeling a bit despondent today so I thought I’d kill a bit of time (a nano second) to write November’s headline for the MSM (the shower of useless sh*te that they all are) just as the winters cold/flu season starts…..

“IT’S BACK” !!!!!!!!!

Funny, still feeling despondent

65279 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to T. Prince, 1, #770 of 1094 🔗

Sub headline “And Its All YOUR FAULT ! ! “

65230 Ian, replying to Ian, 37, #771 of 1094 🔗

We are on holiday, in a beautiful quiet part of Cornwall. Some observations on face masks. The first is that ‘public transport’ includes ferries. So being out in the open air, steaming from St Mawes to Falmouth, even sat outside on the boat, requires a mask. Madness. Why should they be necessary on a boat sat on deck? I got barked at by the skipper when mine slipped from my nose. Very unpleasant, ruined a trip we have been making for years and really look forward to. Falmouth was really quiet. Families sullen and masked. Old ladies breathing really heavily, their masks inflating and deflating as they struggled to catch enough breath. This government and the scientists they listen to should hang their collective heads in shame. I even saw one family who were all masked, children of 2, 4 6 and about 10 years of age. They were also denied entry to a shop together, due to ‘social distancing’. Most people removed their masks immediately on leaving a shop. They then put the damp, fetid, germ filled rag in their pocket or handbag then taking out the same damp, fetid, germ filled mask out to put it back on again for the next shop. I can’t imagine what germs must be spread as a result. It surely makes no sense at all. Every winter we have been extolled to use tissues and ‘catch it, bin it, kill it’. Now it would be more apt ‘catch it, mature it, spread it’.

65239 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ian, 12, #772 of 1094 🔗

Shane! I so enjoyed that ferry over to lovely St Mawes, years ago. Blue, blue water, white swans in the harbour, everything sparkling.

Never mind. Take a beautiful, restorative coastal walk and let Nature work her magic. Human horribleness goes, Nature’s beauty endures.

65242 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Ian, 18, #773 of 1094 🔗

Indeed – the threat isn’t the frequency of a virus; it’s the prevalence of brainless wankers.

65360 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Ian, 4, #774 of 1094 🔗

So true

This government and the scientists they listen to should hang their collective heads in shame.

65236 annie, replying to annie, 32, #775 of 1094 🔗

The nasty stories about zombies obeying Matt the Death and Fetida Dickhead by attacking people with faces remind me of what Lord Russell of Liverpool wrote about both Hoess and Eichmann. They were both fundamentally ordinary little men, with a nasty streak which, in a civilised society, would have been kept in check. They might never even have realised that they had it. But in Nazi Europe it could grow to monstrous proportions.

Quote:

“That the head of a small department [Eichmann] felt able to implement Hitler’s criminal plans, without so much as a protest, is a reminder, never to be forgotten, of the appalling and disastrous effects of totalitarianism on men’s minds.”

That is exactly what we are seeing now. Totalitarianism is bringing out the very worst in nasty people, encouraging it, building it up to monstrous proportions. Convince these zombies that Jews are carrying the virus and they’d cheerfully load them on to trains for Auschwitz.

Our job: remain human. Just that.

65241 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 15, #776 of 1094 🔗

Precisely what the political philosopher Hannah Arendt meant by the “banality of evil”.

65249 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to annie, 26, #777 of 1094 🔗

Can anyone here think of any aspect of their lives that involves actively “shaming” someone else into changing their behaviour? At the moment I cannot think of anything like that in my own life, and I suspect that most people will not be able to think of anything. For a police commissioner to actually make it a de facto official policy must surely be a defining moment in the country’s history.

65262 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Barney McGrew, 13, #778 of 1094 🔗

The idea of calling for shaming, is really off the charts for a police officer. Just reading the founding principles of The Met.

One of them is:
“To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.”

In other words Cressida Dick is not supposed to be the mouthpiece of the government. She is not supposed to act like a general or make moral pronouncements, and call for people to shamed. She is a member of the public, paid to discharge duties of maintaining the peace.

65270 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to James007, 6, #779 of 1094 🔗

She’s certainly not supposed to order the shooting of innocent Brazilian members of the public. 🙂 That was outside her JD as well.

65295 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #780 of 1094 🔗

MPs and the church

65283 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to annie, 6, #781 of 1094 🔗

Annie-

Strangely enough you call to mind Albert Camus’ ‘The Plague’. It can be read as an allegory of the Nazi occupation of Western Europe, a philosophical kibitz or a straight up tale of a pestilence.

Regarding ordinary men turning nasty….
“Each of us has the plague within him; no one, no one on earth is free from it. And i know, too, that we must keep endless watch on ourselves lest in a careless moment we breath in someone’s face and fasten the infection on him”.

65284 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #782 of 1094 🔗

Don’t ever try that quote on a zombie! ‘That just shows that Camus was in favour of face masks!’ they would shriek.

65307 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to annie, 2, #783 of 1094 🔗

Yes, ignorance is THE truly incorrigible vice – as Camus would say

65245 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 16, #784 of 1094 🔗

Just wait four weeks or so:

The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of [Influenza Like Illness (ILI)] statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.long

And that’s a trial involving 1607 hospital healthcare workers (read: they actually knew how to use masks properly!)

65251 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to IMoz, 3, #785 of 1094 🔗

Yep everyone’s sticking them in their pockets along with dirty tissues and money and with frequent contact from hands searching in pockets.

65282 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to IMoz, 8, #786 of 1094 🔗

Whatever the case numbers, they’ll claim it would have been far higher WITHOUT mask use…conveniently forgetting that there were very few cases when the mandate came down. In my county there were zero cases a week ago when the mask mandate came down and now there are two cases. Based on the kind of crap science they’re passing off these days you’d think they’d say this is evidence that masks spread Covid. But no, they’ll probably say it would have been 100 cases without the mask mandate and tell us we should thank them for mandating them just in the nick of time.

65389 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #787 of 1094 🔗

Latest strict lockdown in Australia is working out well for them… 😉

But on the mask front, it could explain why people go to the hospitals with ILI symptoms and the tests keep returning negative for COVID-19.

65460 ▶▶ guy153, replying to IMoz, #788 of 1094 🔗

This is good news as I’m keen for all the usual endemic flus and coronaviruses to make a comeback before the winter and cloth masks may help them spread.

It’s not that I would wish Influenza A on anyone in particular but we’d made our peace with the virosphere as it was and better the devil you know. You end up living with a bunch of viruses that aren’t that fatal and that give you some cross-immunity to their descendents as they evolve so everybody more or less keeps up. I’m not sure it’s a good idea to basically completely wipe everyone’s anti-virus software and hope for the best. There is certainly a case for vaccines and eradication efforts against particularly nasty viruses but generic NPIs to suppress all viruses are potentially risky. Fortunately they show no evidence of working beyond a period of a couple of months.

65247 RickH, replying to RickH, 31, #789 of 1094 🔗

I can (just) cope with the BBC. Or the MSM in general. Or the scared little old ladies devoutly suffocating for the greater good. Or the average Bear of Little Brain.

But what I can’t cope with is (as an example) the genuine, lovely, young, university educated people with – evidently – a brain, who I come across in (for instance) the non-functioning orchestra of which I’m a member – who swallow this Covid shit wholesale.

Wankers will be wankers. ‘Twas always thus. But … this is something really worrying.

65278 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 8, #790 of 1094 🔗

The more educated seem to be more fervent believers. Sometimes when chatting with shop workers or blokes in the motor trade, once I have made then aware of my scepticism, they will say “I think there is going to be a second wave”.
That, of course, is easy to refute but I think it is what they want to hear without revealing themselves as non-believers, just yet.

65316 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to karenovirus, 6, #791 of 1094 🔗

The more educated seem to be more fervent believers.

I think that the ability to work with ideas as opposed to ‘facts’ is one of the biggest differences between people – that no one realises exists.

When you are talking to someone highly educated but your conversation might as well be in two different languages, with the other person seemingly incapable of grasping what you are saying, it’s probably the case that they are a facts person and you are an ideas person. For you, facts help to bolster or refute arguments and ideas; for them, facts are the argument.

If there’s an idea to be argued, then for them it can only be supplied from an outside source – they cannot form their own. In this case, they weigh up whether you are a more reliable source (and the people on your side of the argument: maverick scientists, right-of-centre columnists) or the government and their experts, BBC, Guardian. There’s no contest. They take the side of the government, BBC and SAGE and you will never convince them otherwise through the mere power of argument.

65406 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #792 of 1094 🔗

I think there is a lot in that. Also very “clever” people have to be conformists, they had to conform to everything in their lives and are totally invested in conformity so any deviation from “the norm” is something they cannot do.

They have invested everything they have, their very essence, in conformity. It would be a literal soul-death for them to deviate from the main-stream consensus.

65403 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 1, #793 of 1094 🔗

The other “Standard” response after a good talking to about how this virus isn’t that dangerous is”Well I wouldn’t want to catch it”.

65281 ▶▶ ted, replying to RickH, 14, #794 of 1094 🔗

youths are frightened to death of being mobbed by their social media feeds, so they have learned to toe the line quite closely. Expect the dark night of totalitarianism to only worsen as they grow older and come into power.

65310 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ted, 8, #795 of 1094 🔗

Ironically the millenials are some of the most authoritarian I’ve encountered but agree with you, a lot of it is the school mentality – conform and you will be bullied. And yes I fear that this lot will grow up to be the Hitlers and Stalins of tomorrow, too bad I still have 40 years minimum left in this world to put up with this chamber of horrors.

Another group who have bought into this nonsense lock, stock and barrel are those of a certain age who if working are in positions and sectors that are immune from redundancy or if retired are sitting comfortably atop huge savings and generous triple lock pension schemes.

These two groups need a reality check and fast.

65294 ▶▶ mjr, replying to RickH, 11, #796 of 1094 🔗

this is your problem “ the genuine, lovely, young, university educated people with – evidently – a brain, ” We have an educations system which due to the training and calibre of teachers and successive governments focus on tests produces kids who can pass tests (which get easier each year) but have no ability to think or reason

65306 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 10, #797 of 1094 🔗

I know what you’re saying, though I find it worrying that any adult whose mental faculties are not severely impaired has swallowed this stuff whole and not once reviewed it since to check it still held true. We’re probably dealing with a variety of different cases here – apathetic people whose thinking is stuck, people who are genuinely scared, people for whom the chance to virtue signal is more important than the truth, public figures afraid of opprobrium if they speak out of line, people with political agendas. Each category requires a different approach to bringing them out of their madness, and some may be beyond saving. I think it’s the moderates who are apathetic and stuck in their thinking who represent the best chance of returning to normality, if they start to see they’ve been had and they see their livelihoods being wrecked.

65324 ▶▶ Oldschool, replying to RickH, 6, #798 of 1094 🔗

I think the problem with younger people is that they have never actually been quite ill. The worst they have ever had is a bad cold because they are now vaccinated against all the diseases that older people had in childhood
I had measles, chickenpox, mumps and German measles as a kid and they are not pleasant, in fact I remember my mom taking me to mumps party to catch it off a local kid so I got it when I was young.
Younger people these days don’t get any of these potentially serious diseases because they get vaccinated as babies and get flu jabs every year
Basically, they have never been ill so something that they can’t get vaccinated against scares the hell out of them

65489 ▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to Oldschool, 2, #799 of 1094 🔗

Also they have never been poor.
Even young people from poor families have nice clothes and Iphones. They don’t yet understand what they are losing.
They will have to wake up when millions of them will be unemployed and their parents will not be able to help them. And their life style will have to change.

65250 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #800 of 1094 🔗

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/time-gap-year-some-colleges-will-require-students-take-covid-19-test-twice-week

Some places seem even worse than UK but wait?

“At Cornell University, a research team recently found that students would need to be tested every seven days to keep infections down . A separate study at Yale University and Harvard Medical School suggested that all students should be tested every two or three days . It found that testing only once a week could lead to thousands of infections over a semester.”

65254 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, 13, #801 of 1094 🔗

Yugh jesus christ

Nobody is allowed to have germs inside them any more. How dare they be ALIVE.

65268 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Farinances, 20, #802 of 1094 🔗

Yep… don’t we have something like 1.5 kgs of bacteria- ie foreign bodies – living in us?

Someone in the political world needs to start telling the truth: we are animals, social mammals, who live with all sorts of pathogens…our bodies deal with them all the time, day in day out …we will have co-evolved with bacteria and viruses… we couldn’t live without the billions of bacteria in our gut… if we try and wipe out or avoid every pathogen we will make ourselves more not less vulnerable to deadly infections…social isolation has negative effects on our health… we are in the grip of a mass psychosis and it needs to stop.

Is there a single politician in the UK who will tell these truths? No.

65275 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to OKUK, 2, #803 of 1094 🔗

If memory serves me right, it’s something like 1.3:1 in favour of microbial count vs human cells for a man and women had over 2:1, there was a paper about back in 2016, it might’ve gotten revised by now though.

Found it: table 3 of https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991899/

65277 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 2, #804 of 1094 🔗

I remember telling a woman about the 1.5 kg. of bacteria inside het, she asked how much that actually was so I clenched a fist and said ‘about that much’.

65350 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to karenovirus, #805 of 1094 🔗

That’s a pretty big fist you have (over 3 pounds avoirdupois!).

65325 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to OKUK, #806 of 1094 🔗

Right on!

65280 ▶▶ ted, replying to swedenborg, 11, #807 of 1094 🔗

yeah, my university is looking at ways to test, test, test and keeping the students from ever leaving campus or interacting with staff or faculty outside of classes (which must be outside). Word on the street is that student’s are deciding not to remain enrolled at the school and look to finish their degrees elsewhere. I hope they do. It’s a small school. A few furloughs and devastating pay cuts should snap the pampered authoritarians who now run these places to attention.

65343 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to ted, 2, #808 of 1094 🔗

Probably the mass testing will in the end crash down the whole hyperreaction. PCR testing of well people will in the end bring up the problem of false positive or residual non infectious particles. Let us hope the Anglo Saxon judicial system of lawsuits will bring this absurdity down. Imagine a Harvard student being not being admitted, isolated or refused education because of positive test and had a top lawyer as his parent. Lawsuit of wrongfully isolated due to false positive test, cured infection or infected with other unharmful coronavirus. Best time ever for lawyers earning their fees. Students (and everybody else) is always carrying bacteria like pneumococci, streptococci and even meningococci in their throat. They can rarely suddenly infect and even start small scale outbreak with deaths. Do we screen all students with these common bacteria in the throat? Starting mass testing when the pandemic dies down among well people is an enormous problem and hopefully will crush this hysteria down.

65370 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to swedenborg, 1, #809 of 1094 🔗

I’m split on this one. Edinburgh univetsity home to Devi Sirdah, the Sprculative Society and much agressive expeansionist policy against local communities needs to be broken. It is pleasing to see it’t vile staff suffer. Some academic and estate of who have been directly apoalibg towards communities. New contracts have been issued 12-14 hour days for all, redundencies are happening, non essential building works stopped 200 million pounds worth. It’s as though the ego of the istitution never realised that pumpibg out generstions of crap students as a business model would come bite them. It is pleasing to see. A pleasure actually.

I firmly believe in Education and research. We need dedicated academic studies with genius lecturuers raising levels of inquiry and intellect. We don’t need anything like what edinburgh university had become. I fulky support it’s demise. Whole heartedly. But I am sorry for the good folk who have been trapped within the academic system.

Yet, where are these good bright folk singing like canaries about all that has been happening and all that is going on with corona. It is very easy to watch the institution go down. Bon voyage.

65252 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 33, #810 of 1094 🔗

They are erasing our past, distorting our present and re-programming our future. And they don’t really care what you think about it.

65273 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to richard riewer, 6, #811 of 1094 🔗

The galling aspect is that we are supposed to clap them for their efforts. No thanks…prefer to use my own divine spark, or however you wish to describe it, to make up my own mind.

65342 ▶▶ Mark, replying to richard riewer, 1, #812 of 1094 🔗

Because if you disagree you are not just wrong, you are evil in their eyes. So why should they tolerate your soon to be illegal opinions?

65462 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to richard riewer, #813 of 1094 🔗

It is becoming so much like Soviet Union when people could not disagree with official party line for the fear of persecution and critisized it in their kitchens

65297 ▶▶ mjr, replying to richard riewer, 5, #815 of 1094 🔗

if only………….

65274 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 24, #816 of 1094 🔗

If none of our political parties are going to stand up for the rights of free citizens then free citizens are going to have to create a new political party.

65331 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to OKUK, #817 of 1094 🔗

I believe the Brexit Party are working on it as we speak

65340 ▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, 4, #818 of 1094 🔗

Two at least, I’d say. One to mop up conservatives disenfranchised by the “Conservative” Party move to social liberalism, and one to mop up trad pro-worker lefties disenfranchised by the “Labour” Party move to radical identity politicking stupidity. It’s unlikely the two groups can coexist easily in one party.

65345 ▶▶ Biker, replying to OKUK, 3, #819 of 1094 🔗

Can i be the leader? I’m totally corrupt and can be bought off for money. I have no principles when it comes to huge amounts of dough, also i’m open to other offers of a more salacious nature, nothing illegal off course but nonetheless i’m prepared to do whatever it takes to secure a good time for myself. Plus i’d get rid of welfare and chuck all the lazy bastards in the street then i’d employ people to go around in vans disappearing these people. After a year of my leadership we’d have a society where everyone looks after themselves and we don’t have to walk the bum/junkie walk up the high street. I’d also get rid of Romanian beggars with extreme prejudice.Some might say i’m a bit to the right but in reality i want virtually no government with hardly any laws. Each man lives according to his abilities and if you’re useless then either to wise up or get the fuck out of Dodge.

65411 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Biker, 1, #820 of 1094 🔗

This is a sound policy, that will be more effective than current government, and do less harm. I commend it to the house.

65292 Stephen, 1, #821 of 1094 🔗

What we are seeing is what happens when fear takes hold.

Populations are in a state of fear, whipped up by media and then governments who felt no alternative but to go with it.

Governments, for the first time in human history, now seem to be seen as accountable for recorded deaths from a virus. They are now in a state of fear that they will be accused of being criminals if they do not do everything they can be seen to be doing.

The latest UK travel quarantine panic induced by a rise in Spanish “cases” is indicative. It is not clear that these cases have anything to do with people being ill, as opposed to test results. Again, I think we are uniquely determining cases as a test result rather than any form of symptom. It’s the precautionary principle taken to extremes. The results may even be statistical false positives, given how low the incidence rate is and the lack of any form of contextual data in the media and from Raab, Hancock et al other than howling about “thousands of cases…”

in this state of fear, all collateral damage is being ignored and anyone who questions the policy is accused of being pro death. Hard to see how this will end, right now. It really is a form of mass population and government psychosis.

65296 mjr, replying to mjr, 28, #822 of 1094 🔗

Quarantine . Just noticed in BBC interview that one of the absurdities of this is that key workers do not have to quarantine. so this man they are interviewing says he is a key worker and does not need to quarantine on return from Spain but his wife is not and so she must quarantine.
So for this apparently virulent killer virus, they are happy for someone who is a key worker, say for example , works in NHS, to come back from Spain, go to work, and infect everyone.
Purely hypothetical of course … since we all know the actual incidence is minimal

65311 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mjr, 16, #823 of 1094 🔗

This virus is weird – only travels in one direction, can identify where it will strike and is able to identify who is a “key worker” and who isn’t.

The mind boggles…..

65358 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #824 of 1094 🔗

It’s a little more sinister than weird. Look at it this way. Killer death bug ‘o bugs in Spain. Quarantine everyone returning (and coming to ) to United Kingdom for two weeks. Except Key workers. Because we want to try and infect key working work places. We want essential business to struggle and close down. We need those headlines.

Isn’t that really what their thinking is? Weird yes, but clearly happy to make essential services vulnerable. If we follow along with their fairy stories.

65407 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 2, #825 of 1094 🔗

Pshaw! Next you will be saying they would send infected victims into a closed environment full of vulnerable people! Or force every body to carry a germ factory on their face, keep playing with it and then touch food or shopping items…
Don’t be daft. This is our Government you are talking about 😉

65338 ▶▶ Mark, replying to mjr, 5, #826 of 1094 🔗

Nothing new really, for a virus that we have already established only spreads at gatherings that aren’t mobs pushing leftist political causes.

65298 TJN, replying to TJN, 19, #827 of 1094 🔗

Morning All.

Muzzles again. Is the mandation actually legal? Does anyone know if there are any plans to test it in court? I thought Lockdowntruth hinted on here a few days ago that there were moves to bring a case?

I understand the rules are based on a Statutory Instrument under the 1984 Public Health Act. I thought the Simon Dolan request  for a judicial review into the actual lockdown was based on the premise that the lockdown had, in the circumstances, to be ‘reasonable and proportionate’.

Of course, reasonable and proportionate are elastic terms.

But given that there is absolutely no evidence that muzzles used by the untrained public have any effect whatsoever in halting the spread of viral infections (and in some circumstances – through the use of cloth masks for example – may greatly exacerbate infection spread), and given that coronavirus has all but disappeared in large swathes of the country, it would surely be very easy to demonstrate in court that the compulsory muzzles edict was not ‘reasonable and proportionate’.

And Johnson is blithely talking about muzzles being mandated until next summer. Surely this is an open goal for legal action? Far more so than the actual lockdown. And there is plenty of time.

If legal action were instigated it’s hard to imagine that HM Government wouldn’t be forced to make some very major concessions – like scrapping the mandation in shops and on public transport. It would also head off all the other little delights they appear to have in store for us.

65322 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to alw, 1, #829 of 1094 🔗

Thanks, but isn’t that the actual lockdown?

I imagine that a discrete action concerning muzzle mandation would have a much clearer chance of success, and anyway is a different matter.

65302 mjr, 17, #830 of 1094 🔗

The government is being led by the data………
Nope – the government is being led by the donkey

65313 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 31, #831 of 1094 🔗

Saw something in the Times where its reported that Sunak is considering a tax on online purchases to help the High Street.

Just how stupid is he and the government? They’re the ones responsible for the High Street’s woes with their stupid antisocial distancing and mandatory muzzling which has made shopping more of a chore and a misery. And let’s not even go into the long standing problems – high rents and taxes, penalising car owners, etc.

Rather than admit that they have been wrong, they seek to punish the public for their mistakes.

You couldn’t make it up!

65348 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #832 of 1094 🔗

Just how stupid? Beyond normal imagination!

65314 TJN, replying to TJN, 21, #833 of 1094 🔗

Any politician who has made public demonstrations of taking the knee or wearing a muzzle, or any political party whose leader has done the aforementioned, will never again have my vote.

65335 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to TJN, 11, #834 of 1094 🔗

I am not voting for any Tory or Labour ever again.

65352 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JulieR, #835 of 1094 🔗

Pleease don’t green. I know that leaves little chouce.

65336 ▶▶ Mark, replying to TJN, 3, #836 of 1094 🔗

I agree, but you must admit it rather reduces the available field for voting…..

New parties required stat. The leftist radicals of the early to mid-C20th seem to have pretty much succeeded in enacting the Brechtian adage of dissolving the people to elect a new one, at least as far as all the people in positions of power and influence are concerned (“elites). Now we somehow have to winkle them out of the dominant positions they have made for themselves and overturn the systematic indoctrination.they have installed to suppress dissent.

65344 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mark, 3, #837 of 1094 🔗

Monster Raving Loony or spoil the ballot paper.

Not that we have elections any more.

65318 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 7, #838 of 1094 🔗

Apologies if someone has already highlighted this little article, on the progress of Covid vaccines;
Covid19 vaccines with side effects could still be pretty bad…
https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-vaccines-with-minor-side-effects-could-still-be-pretty-bad/?mc_cid=b1e91135ce

65341 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #839 of 1094 🔗

Yes indeed. And the group of people that would benefit from a (safe) vaccine would be the elderly who’s already diminished immune system might not take kindly to the onslaught this vaccine would cause to their bodies.

65545 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark B, #840 of 1094 🔗

I’m one of the Old Fart Brigade.

I’ve always taken the ‘flu vaccine – albeit with some scepticism over the efficacy. It simply isn’t much of an issue.

HOWEVER : Given a research background (not in medicine, but with a clear idea of the nature of evidence and probabilities), I wouldn’t touch any rapidly developed vaccine.

  1. The overall possible severity of the disease balance against possible harm, even for me, certainly doesn’t warrant it. I’d rather dodge bullets.
  2. The necessary RCTs to establish efficacy and safety *cannot* possibly be done in a timescale of a year or so. To suggest that they can be is utter fraudulent bollocks.
65556 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, #841 of 1094 🔗

As a P.S – Ultimate controlled trialling should *not* – under any circumstances – be in the hands of developers or the pharmaceutical industry in general.

65347 ▶▶ IanE, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #842 of 1094 🔗

Pretty worrying stuff. Looking like this could lead to the next big scandal – by which any government giving the go-ahead might be destroyed!

65361 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to IanE, #843 of 1094 🔗

How ironic!

65364 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #844 of 1094 🔗

Don’t get me wrong: A day or two of pain or illness wouldn’t deter me from getting an effective Covid-19 vaccine.

Well, it certainly would deter me — given that a day or two of illness is what an average person would expect from getting Covid-19 in the unlikely event that you did get it.

65381 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to jrsm, 2, #845 of 1094 🔗

Agree. What about the long terms effects?

65392 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Victoria, 1, #846 of 1094 🔗

It will probably turn people into Gay Frogs.

65537 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, #847 of 1094 🔗

Shhhht! Less of that kind of thought!

65390 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to thedarkhorse, #848 of 1094 🔗

I posted this on yesterday’s thread following an article (in Telegraph) on the Oxford vaccine team – well actually it was yet another plug for Sarah Gilbert:

Suggest Phase III is not going as smoothly due to side effects in the older, less well cohort. Professor Gilbert is parading the narrative ‘I am working day and night to save the world, I am so tired I cannot eat and sleep’, to deflect.

Guy153 posted a link to The Lancet paper from her team on Wednesday’s thread, if I remember correctly. It lays bare the large percentage in Phase I who needed paracetamol, and also that it didn’t seem to alleviate symptoms.

I would be a bit concerned if I was long of AstraZeneca based on a global roll-out. That said, how frightened do the sheeple have to be to accept the Oxford vaccine in the extended Phase III trial of the entire UK that Boris and Co have promised (the string pullers) to sign us up to. Or is that we will be so pissed off that we cannot guarantee getting our fortnight of sun under threat of quarantine, that we will accept an untried vaccine with unknown longer-term side effects and short-term known pretty severe side effects? Not I!

65524 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #849 of 1094 🔗

I approve entirely of these viscious ‘*****’ not being able to sleep or eat for stress. Good. All of their stress is self imposed by tgeir own ego and greed. If they were humble to show humility enough to talk reason I would think differently. As it is please do not eat nor sleep for a long time, to your death if needs be.

65533 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, -1, #850 of 1094 🔗

We need a campaign to give boris handcock and vallance their flash gordon moment. Recall the public executiin by lethal injection? Honestly lets go live to seeing those three get their vaccines. Yeahs they would fake it yes it is pie in sky, but it would be a pleasure to see them look ashen.

65439 ▶▶ guy153, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #851 of 1094 🔗

They got a fair amount of side-effects because they used a big dose. But using a smaller dose may be worse because you don’t get such a good immune response, and that might be more likely to lead to disease enhancement, which I still think is the biggest risk with these vaccines.

I say “might” because nobody really knows… but we should find out before using this vaccine on the public. I want to see the effect of low and/or fading doses in the challenge trials.

If you have a big dose you get lots of neutralizing antibodies. Then when you get challenged the real virus gets kicked out really quickly and you’re fine, but also blissfully ignorant of what might have happened.

With a smaller dose however, you might end up with fewer and less specific antibodies as your body has less time to train them (this is a process called “affinity maturation” and is thought to have been one of the problems with the RSV vaccine from the 1960s). Both effects leave you open to a partial infection. And then the whole situation gets a lot more complex as all sorts of other systems are coming into play to get rid of the virus, and there’s lots more scope for things to go wrong.

Not trying to spread FUD here. I’m not an anti-vaxxer, and it will probably be fine. But there is a lot more they could do to increase the confidence that it will be fine and they should be doing that.

65492 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to guy153, 2, #852 of 1094 🔗

What’s the major difference between having a vaccine and catching the virus naturally? Other than control of who and when they get it.

65514 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nobody2020, #853 of 1094 🔗

Shh – you’re not supposed to say that!

65527 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #854 of 1094 🔗

The real virus replicates. Because the vaccine doesn’t you use a much bigger dose of it, which might make you feel ill but is not going to cause a runaway infection. There may be other differences, some accidental, others deliberate, to try to make the vaccine work better. For Covid the goal is to replicate the natural immune response as closely as possible because despite the impression one might get from reading The Guardian it seems to be very effective.

65546 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Nobody2020, #855 of 1094 🔗

With a vaccine, all the body’s natural protection mechanisms are bypassed. The vaccine also contains a lot of other ingredients that in susceptible people could tip them over to develop auto immune diseases (does not happen overnight), other illnesses (i.e neurotoxins where parts of the brain can be destroyed permanently. i.e narcolepsy) or death.

When acquiring the virus naturally your body will acquire immunity.

Keep in mind that healthy bodies that are not deficient in nutrients will be able to protect you well and will fight back well. Optimised vitamin D3 levels are critical in this instance.

65319 StevieH, 2, #856 of 1094 🔗

Don’t know if anyone else has posted this – from Briggs on face masks – well worth a read|:

https://wmbriggs.com/post/31883/

65323 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 14, #857 of 1094 🔗

Apologies for my cynicism but what was the purpose of Grant Shapps’ visit to Spain? On the face of it, it looks like a blatant ‘taking one for the team’.

65326 ▶▶ Oldschool, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #858 of 1094 🔗

Probably really needed a sombrero and a straw donkey

65362 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Oldschool, 3, #859 of 1094 🔗

i understand the sombrero but why the prime minister???

65327 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #860 of 1094 🔗

I think it was set up to make it appear that ‘this can affect us all’. He will return home on full pay, Parliament is on holiday and no skin off his nose.

65380 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Sarigan, 1, #861 of 1094 🔗

Ha excellent point, forgot he has no work to go to anyway, and im sure a lovely big house with gardens to chill in

65329 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #862 of 1094 🔗

Yes, it did cross my mind too. It had to be the minister for transport though didn’t it?
Gavin Williamson just would not have cut it, would he?

65332 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #863 of 1094 🔗

The ‘man of the people’ type, Paul Scully, is also in Lanzarote.

65339 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #864 of 1094 🔗

Grant Shapps’ aka Government “beard” lol.

65396 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #865 of 1094 🔗

The language from givernment in warning of other possible countries suddenly requiring firced quarantine is from the behaviour insight evils. Not compassionate. They are using this Spainish issue to ‘bad cop’ the nation. The ‘good cop’ was handjob wiping out debt.

Obviously he created debt but did so in a good cop way. This back and forth is deliberate to destabilise us. Maskees are likely to suffer more by the spainish quarantine declaration – who can they trust?

You all probably know this already!

65328 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 22, #866 of 1094 🔗

Enjoyed an al fresco meal with some friends yesterday. Of course, the main topic of conversation was the lockdown. They talked fondly of a meal they had enjoyed together just before lockdown. I pointed out that they had been relaxed and behaving totally normally at a point when infections would have been at their highest. They are terrified now. Why?

65330 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Margaret, 5, #867 of 1094 🔗

Good point! What did they reply?

65333 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Moomin, 11, #868 of 1094 🔗

What could they say? At least they didn’t deny it.
I’ve worked really hard on them all-being in Spain, they have to rely on BBC and Sky News which isn’t good. I’ve asked them to question everything that they see and read. Some of their family members here and in the UK are sceptics too so that’s a positive sign.

65520 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Margaret, 2, #869 of 1094 🔗

The answer to your ‘Why’ is quite simple :

The government is now thoroughly discredited by any rational examination.

Therefore – Fear has to be ramped up to compensate.

65334 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 13, #870 of 1094 🔗

Does it not behove the government to find out how many passengers coming in on one or two flights actually had the virus? Just to gauge how necessary their injunction has been. Or is this going to be another measure that is going to be assumed to do what they expect it to do?

65366 ▶▶ Will, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #871 of 1094 🔗

It is another measure to make it look like they have “beaten” the virus when nature has actually done the job and the hundreds of thousands of collateral deaths will have been completely unnecessary…

65346 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 5, #873 of 1094 🔗

Listening to Julie Hartley Breweron Talkradio with Benjamin Butterworth (no me neither). Full of muzzle wearing should be stricter and outdoor except in the countryside. One of them saw a person unmask to cough-how very wrong. Ah well Peter Hitchens is usually on Mike Graham at 11.00 -though earlier last week.

65355 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to arfurmo, 3, #874 of 1094 🔗

Coughing in the street! – put their head on a spike that’ll teach em and be a lesson to others. Good grief this nonsense gets worse.

65359 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to arfurmo, #875 of 1094 🔗

Ah it gets clearer Benjamin Butterworth is a sometime writer for the Washington Post, the Guardian and the Independent.

65746 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to KBuchanan, #876 of 1094 🔗

All three newspapers being bastions of wokeratiness. And occasionally liars as well.

65371 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to arfurmo, 5, #877 of 1094 🔗

I was emailing a friend to tell them I was close to leaving the remote location I’m presently in and venturing out in to the “brave new world” – then I thought I’d have to change the Shakespeare quote to “the not so brave new world”

65515 ▶▶ RickH, replying to arfurmo, #878 of 1094 🔗

A motto for a lanyard :

“MASK EXEMPT!

Suffering from outbreaks of Sanity.”

65356 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #879 of 1094 🔗

Still more people dying from diahrrorea and gastro-intestinal illnesses plus 14 other causes of deaths than covid-19 if that was included on the list but as worldometer only lists 560 deaths for yesterday it doesn’t even get into the top 20.

http://deathmeters.info

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

65368 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Awkward Git, #880 of 1094 🔗

Sorry, tapped the wrong “reply”

65379 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Awkward Git, #881 of 1094 🔗

I didn’t know about deathmeters. What a sinister name for a site. Since I’ve taken to scrutinizing statistics these days, it sounds right up my street.

65365 Mark, replying to Mark, 18, #882 of 1094 🔗

Repeal the decision to implement compulsory face coverings in English shops .
Now up to 20,000 signatures on this petition (which was posted here a couple of days ago). Worth keeping pushing it, as there will hopefully be a lot of people who turn against facemasks as the initial novelty wears off.

65369 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to Mark, 4, #883 of 1094 🔗

need to get this moving because the petition to make masks mandatory in public places is catching up fast!

65372 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steeve, 1, #884 of 1094 🔗

What is meant by “public spaces”? Parks? – or is it pubs and cafès etc.

65375 ▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #885 of 1094 🔗

outside public spaces including parks I presume

65387 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Steeve, 6, #886 of 1094 🔗

Oh for fucks sake!

65376 ▶▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #887 of 1094 🔗

The petition just says ‘in public’ which can and no doubt will be interpreted in the broadest possible sense, though the fact that the petitioner believes the ‘pandemic’ is ‘rapidly spreading’ should nullify the whole thing entirely. They also describe masks as ‘pragmatically meaningful’ and cite China as an example to follow…

65386 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #888 of 1094 🔗

Was it set up by Matt & Bo

65451 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #889 of 1094 🔗

In Ireland mask wearing was made mandatory last Monday prompted by:-

“The concern about the rise in the number of cases over recent weeks”

So said Ireland’s Prime Minister. He could only have been speaking of the previous two and a half weeks in which, on a weekly basis, confirmed cases had risen from 67 to 142. Could that be deemed “rapidly spreading”?

But perhaps the petitioner is thinking more of what is happening world wide. The Irish Prime Minister expressed concern about that too.

65377 ▶▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #890 of 1094 🔗

outside the front gate if you live in a town

65383 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Steeve, 1, #891 of 1094 🔗

Wonder if it’s 16k people or bots, or signatures from the Boogaloogo Islands? So many petitions have had fake signatures to attack the truth, it’s impossible to know whether it’s real or a stitch-up.

65373 smileymiley, replying to smileymiley, 11, #892 of 1094 🔗

From Simon Dolan

Just been sent this. Worth a read – basically, Police will only attend as a last resort- even then will only fine as a last resort,and even then only if the persondoesn’t have a ‘reasonable excuse’, defined in part as ‘it causes me severe distress’

https://t.co/KWj43zBBJN

65443 ▶▶ James H, replying to smileymiley, 1, #893 of 1094 🔗

The paragraph “Explain” in the Police Responses section is particularly illuminating. Since when was it a police matter to enforce compliance with a dubious opinion? It would be hilarious if it weren’t so serious. Coupled with changes to PACE, this is very worrying, indeed.

65384 TJN, replying to TJN, 9, #894 of 1094 🔗

Great quote from Christopher Snowden’s latest article in The Spectator :

‘There is also a strange comfort in being able to abandon hope in Boris Johnson so soon into his premiership. It saves time in the long run.’

65395 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to TJN, 2, #895 of 1094 🔗

There were those of us who realised early on—probably from his appearances on ‘Have I got news For You’— that here was a pillock of the first order. Others probably thought: ‘He’s a lad isn’t he?–lets make him PM’

65397 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #896 of 1094 🔗

I think most probably thought: “what a prat, but look at the alternatives!”

65408 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #897 of 1094 🔗

Maybe it’s that by last summer, with Mrs May finished, there was a vacuum, and people just wanted someone – anyone – who could fill it.

I’m as guilty as anyone, for which I’m profoundly ashamed.

Seeing him in the muzzle brings his eyes to the fore. You can’t miss them. As others on here have remarked, they’re dead. And I don’t know if they’re dead because he’s physically and mentally broken, or if he’s downright evil.

65416 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to TJN, 6, #898 of 1094 🔗

Johnson has a Churchillian complex. He wants to be the new Churchill.
Regardless of what you thought of Winston he was the right sort of warrior, at the right time, to face Hitler down. Churchill, arguably, saved Britain. Johnson will go down in history as the PM who destroyed Britain. I really cannot think of a single positive thing to say in his favour. He will go down in history as the worst PM ever! No wonder he has a wild eyed staring look about him.

65424 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #899 of 1094 🔗

More like Churchill, the dog who sells car insurance!

65429 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Margaret, 1, #900 of 1094 🔗

The dog’s funny and loveable.

65430 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #901 of 1094 🔗

Yes, even in his body language and mannerisms he tries to emulate Churchill. Thing is, he’s the direct opposite: a moral coward and intellectual pygmy.

Johnson is also lazy and a very poor writer. Again, opposite of Churchill.

65437 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Harry hopkins, 5, #902 of 1094 🔗

I’ve said this before here, but the great irony is that he was gifted a real opportunity to be actually Churchillian, and become either one of our greatest leaders or, at worst, go down gloriously fighting and be vindicated by posterity. In March, by standing against all the panicking and nonsense around him, he could have saved us from this catastrophe by resisting the panic, instead of going along with it, but he was too scared to stand against the panickers.

He seems not to understand that to be a hero you have to actually face some actual danger, political at least….

Not many PMs are handed such an opportunity. He was, and he blew it. I hope before he dies he comes to understand that (I’m vindictive in that way, when it comes to leaders who fail to live up to the responsibilities they campaign to be given).

65449 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mark, 2, #903 of 1094 🔗

Yes, he did have the opportunity, and bottled it. Then again, he bottles everything difficult.

The opposite of Churchill. He’s Blair in Blair’s clothing.

And I really don’t understand how he’s regarded as a good journalist – an absolutely crap writer in my view.

65464 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Mark, 3, #904 of 1094 🔗

Johnson never had a hope in hell of being anywhere near Churchill both politically and in his private life. Churchill had his wilderness years when he foresaw the rise of Hitlerism even before 1933. Churchill had principles and character and he was loyal to his friends and his family.

Max Hastings famously said of Johnson:

‘The only people who like Johnson are those who have never met him’

A disgusting, self centred narcissist who is devoid of any character whatsoever. What have we come to?

65540 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Harry hopkins, #905 of 1094 🔗

I now agree with the aid to David Cameron who right after the Brexit vote said ‘there is a special place in Hell reserved for Johnson’.

I thought it was sour grapes at the time. But I now know they were correct.

Your last paragraph is spot on.

65385 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 6, #906 of 1094 🔗

Can I please ask for a moment of your time to sign this petition:

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-remove-the-spanish-islands-from-uk-14-day-quarentine-rule?recruiter=155086945&recruited_by_id=a87d801b-4734-4b00-8d1e-34201dd36386-23706824-en-gb%3A2

It has reached 50,000 and will help show the Govt. that they are pissing people off now.

65404 ▶▶ petgor, replying to Sarigan, #907 of 1094 🔗

Done.

65415 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sarigan, 1, #908 of 1094 🔗

Done. But I really don’t like Change.org.

65427 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 4, #909 of 1094 🔗

Out of interest, why not?

Done too, though somewhat dispirited that this one has easily outstripped the face mask one, which just goes to show how many weird people there are in the world – they care more about their annual holiday than having cover their faces forever.

65442 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Julian, #910 of 1094 🔗

It’s a for-profit corporation

65446 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #911 of 1094 🔗

Something about the overall tone, but in particular in this case I don’t like the way they try to push you to go further after signing. They offer you two alternatives: contribute money or share on social media, without a third option saying just “ok” and closing it out. It feels pushy and manipulative.

65528 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Mark, #912 of 1094 🔗

I agree, with change.org you get a whole string of follow up begging emails. And not being a government based petition I suspect it has even less chance of getting results.

65519 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark, #913 of 1094 🔗

Agree. At the start of the lockdown I signed a petition, it had 191,000 signatories and it disappeared overnight without us being informed of the reason. Think they were instructed by the Government but that does not give them a reason not to communicate.

I opened another ‘change’ petition lower down and it obviously had a cookie with my name already on the page.

Oh and our friend Bill Gates is since recently part owner go Change.org
Lovely….. having access to all that data.

65608 ▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Victoria, #914 of 1094 🔗

Some brave film-maker ought to make a new Bond movie with Bill Gates as the head of Spectre. He fits the bill perfectly.

65490 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Sarigan, #915 of 1094 🔗

Done

65660 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Sarigan, #916 of 1094 🔗

Done. Its at 58,600 + and growing fast.
Can I ask if everyone could sign: Repael compulsory face coverings:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430

65388 davews, replying to davews, 14, #917 of 1094 🔗

Just back from Tesco, wore my ‘government issued’ exemption lanyard. No problems. Girl on door now maskless. Nice chat with a lady staff member in the bakery aisle who agreed it was all nonsense and people like me must find it pretty miserable – lowered her mask to speak to me. Man nearby commenting masks don’t work with glasses. Store quiet, as it usually is that time on a Monday, but most masked. Then at the till the woman asked me where I had got my lanyard from, quite interested. I feel we are making some progress but unless we can change the mood of the media it is going to take a long time.

65393 ▶▶ petgor, replying to davews, 7, #918 of 1094 🔗

If the government and its experts were serious about the threat of the virus in shops, then why give 10 days warning? Unless of course the experts advised that the virus would go to sleep for ten days. They continue to think that we are stupid. But then so many of my fellow and fellowess citizens are, judging by their response to this latest Development.

65400 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to petgor, 4, #919 of 1094 🔗

If the government and its experts were serious about the threat of the virus in shops…” They are not serious about the threat, other than to their political careers.

65391 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #920 of 1094 🔗

Just read a news item on mass evacuation in Vietnam, https://news.sky.com/story/vietnam-evacuating-80-000-people-from-city-after-three-positive-coronavirus-tests-12037025
All this testing just seems to be unearthing more witches in the broom cupboard, it is starting to look like a dog chasing its tail or King Canute trying to hold back the tide. ‘How many lockdowns can the world survive, until they just have to see, this virus my friend is blowing in the wind, this virus is blowing in the wind’. Mankind seems convinced it can beat it, I rather feel this virus is having the last laugh!

65412 ▶▶ Alan P, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #921 of 1094 🔗

Anyone see how the ‘deaths’ from Covid is now being replaced by the ‘cases’ of Covid in the MSM narrative?

65423 ▶▶▶ James H, replying to Alan P, 2, #922 of 1094 🔗

Odd, isn’t it?
But self-explantory once one cuts through the BS!

65425 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Alan P, 2, #923 of 1094 🔗

Has been for a while. And when ‘cases’ don’t cut it anymore, it will be ‘tests’, which of course will continue to rise.

65487 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sam Vimes, #924 of 1094 🔗

There’s no obvious definition of a “case.” It keeps changing, so we don’t know if it’s someone admitted to hospital due to CV19, or someone who’s tested positive.

65436 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Alan P, 4, #925 of 1094 🔗

Not “now being”. I can’t remember the last report I saw that actually referenced increasing death numbers or a significant increase in hospitalisations/ICU admissions, except in the context of a possible autumn/winter second wave. It’s all been about “cases” for weeks now.

65431 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #926 of 1094 🔗

Ultra paranoia and gross stupidity.

65394 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 10, #927 of 1094 🔗

http://www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/07/26/benidorm-is-safe-and-here-is-the-proof/

Just come across this in one of the free papers for Spain. Interesting reading.
The areas affected by the spikes are further away from a place like Benidorm than Glasgow is from London.

The positive tests are found amongst Catalonian fruit pickers who live in cramped caravans or in cities like Barcelona where the young have been gathering in large numbers.

”Look in your own backyard Boris”

Interesting conversation with the Spanish dentist this morning. He did not want to be thought of as a conspiracy theorist but is suggesting that a lot of people think that this will be all over once the US election has taken place. Someone on here has also suggested that by tanking the economy now, Boris will have something to blame if Brexit is a disaster and the bounce back forecast doesn’t happen.

65405 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Margaret, 2, #928 of 1094 🔗

Agree, I’m coming to the conclusion that all this bollocks rests on the US elections, I’m not particularly well educated or an expert in politics (apart from the fact they are all wankers) but it’s a gut feeling.

I’m very sweary today…

65410 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to stefarm, 1, #929 of 1094 🔗

But what I don’t understand is exactly how this rests on the US elections, and what if the result is that Biden wins, what happens then, and if Trump wins, what happens?

65420 ▶▶▶▶ James H, replying to DressageRider, 2, #930 of 1094 🔗

A plausible explanation for that would be that the Covid-thing was devised and planted quite deliberately. I feel a Francis Urquhart moment coming . . .

65480 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to James H, 1, #931 of 1094 🔗

There’s credible evidence to suggest that was GM engineered in a lab in the US and was deliberately sent to infect the Chinese at the military games.

There’s also evidence to suggest that Fauci had it transferred from the US lab to the one in Wuhan.

Given that the US is doing all it can to provoke China, these rumours make more sense than the bat flu from the wet market story – which I understand has been discredited.

65484 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, #932 of 1094 🔗

I understand that Fauci and Obama provided funding to the Wuhan lab, and it’s more than likely that the virus was bioengineered, but I haven’t seen any evidence that it came from the U.S..

65509 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Lms23, #933 of 1094 🔗

Didn’t Fauci have his super bio-labs in the US closed down due to safety concerns then move them to Wuhan?

65597 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Cheezilla, #934 of 1094 🔗

Can you point us in the direction of some evidence? Back in December I read reports in the Washington Post and New York Times about a contingent Americans catching Covid-19 when they went to Wuhan for a convention in October. Plus I watched the interview with Dr Judy Mikovits pointing the finger at Fauci’s involvement with the Wuhan lab and its partner lab in the USA for the financially incentivised vaccine research. In that interview she also accused Fauci of stealing and burying her work on the effectiveness of the very cheap malaria drug hydro….ine (can’t remember the spelling). If I remember correctly (?) she also made allegations that the virus possibly escaped from the Wuhan lab, but have seen nothing indicating it was the other way round. (Her interview was taken off line fairly quickly so cannot replay it, but it was jolly convincing.

65481 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to DressageRider, #935 of 1094 🔗

If Trump wins, the violent insurrection currently going on in Democrat-ruined cities will spread and get worse, probably leading to an all-out civil war.

If Biden wins, whoever is really in charge, including his VP (not yet announced, but will be a “woman of colour”) will encourage violence from the far left anarchists and communists to spread to Republican areas. The Democrats won’t stop them, and the police will have been “defunded” across the U.S.. There will be well-armed militia on both sides, leading to civil war. Two thirds of the police and military veterans will side with the Republicans, and many will join militia units (already happening)
The Democrats will give the vote to 22 million illegal immigrants. They will end the filibuster (requirement for 60% of the vote in the House or Congress to pass any legislation. It will be changed to a simple majority, i.e. 1 vote). They will make D.C. another state with two guaranteed Democrat senators, ensuring a perpetual majority. The will end the Electoral College, thereby ensuring with all these measures that they will be in power for the foreseeable future. The Republicans will never be able to get a majority again in House, Senate, or Presidency.

65544 ▶▶▶▶▶ James H, replying to Lms23, 1, #936 of 1094 🔗

Better make sure Trump gets elected,!
I enjoyed that rather worrying analysis. I fear you are spot-on, though.

65553 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Lms23, #937 of 1094 🔗

Thanks! So it’s civil war in either scenario?

65580 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to DressageRider, #938 of 1094 🔗

You are right. Civil war is coming, and – quite frankly – if people don’t start waking up in this country and fighting back, I will be moving my disabled ass back to America and joining the militias. I made my home here. I prefer to fight here. But no one here seems to care, so I shall join those who do.

If you don’t know by now that this affects you, too…. I don’t know what to say to you. This is not someone else’s problem on someone else’s doorstep. It’s on YOUR doorstep, too.

65417 ▶▶▶ James H, replying to stefarm, 4, #939 of 1094 🔗

Youtuber and pundit Lionel Lebron reckons that in the event the Democrats win all this Covid and Black Matter stuff will vanish in a puff of smoke.

65419 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to stefarm, 3, #940 of 1094 🔗

Swear away Steven-my language has deteriorated throughout this too.

Dressage rider: I think they are resting their hopes on getting rid of Trump. Should he win again, they’ll have to come up with another cunning plan-a bit like SOME remainers really.

65564 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to stefarm, #941 of 1094 🔗

I am an American (I’m also British). Oh….. Trump will win. The biggest goddamn landslide in history. Americans are FURIOUS. Just not the ones you’ll ever see covered on TV. I know one person voting for Biden…. all the Democrat voters are going Trump.

Incidentally… I don’t think the election has anything to do with Coronahysteria. Nor Brexit. No one in Spain, for example, gives two shits about what is going on in US or UK politics. It’s narcissism to think they would.

65571 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to TyLean, #942 of 1094 🔗

Agree, are they trying to ‘starve’ him out, hoping he will throw his cards in and walk away.

He will win.

65413 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Margaret, 4, #943 of 1094 🔗

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1187829299207954437
“We are not prepared for a pandemic. Trump has rolled back progress President Obama and I made to strengthen global health security. We need leadership that builds public trust, focuses on real threats, and mobilizes the world to stop outbreaks before they reach our shores”9:32 pm · 25 Oct 2019 Joe BidenPerhaps a co-incidence no conspiracy
But this from Bill Gates?
https://twitter.com/BillGates/status/120768199761274880
“What’s next for our foundation? I’m particularly excited about what the next year could mean for one of the best buys in global health: vaccines.”3:20 pm · 19 Dec 2019

65398 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #944 of 1094 🔗

Consistent Inaccuracies in COVID-19 Testing and Reporting
“The only consistent thing about COVID-19 testing and reporting so far is their inconsistency. Head-scratching “errors” have plagued us from the get-go, and it sure doesn’t seem to be getting any better. I guess it just goes to show that even with access to incredible data-crunching technology, human ineptitude will ensure no one becomes the wiser.”

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/07/27/coronavirus-infection-rate-in-usa.aspx

65473 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 1, #945 of 1094 🔗

The tests are a total distraction.

The introduction to any good book on probability and statistics would urge starting from the basic procedure of just *looking* at your data in the real world setting.

In the case of this mythical Scary Fairy that data would tell you straight away that, over an extended period, you are not tripping over bodies lying in the street, and you are probably having to think hard to think of cases of serious illness (let alone death) that would make this year entirely different from any other year in your life.

That is the starting point.

The next question – even before getting to recondite issues of alleged viral RNA strands is

“So what the f. is this all about?”

… which would then lead you towards political, psychological, sociological and basic statistical analysis rather than medical issues.

65399 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #946 of 1094 🔗

Just doing some number crunching. On 26th July 2020 225481 coronavirus tests were carried out:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public

Total positive tests were 747 which gives a positive rate of 0.33%.

It’s getting harder to find out an actual false positive rate for the tests might be, most searches churn out hits after hit about false negatives instead. Best I can come up with in 2 mins research is a false positive rate of between zero and 30%, the ONS use 5% for their number crunching if I read their webpage correctly which matches what Roche uses for their sales blurb:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/england14may2020

So 0.33% is well within the probability of false positives range.

65444 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #947 of 1094 🔗

One small point, the 225,841 figure is the tests made available. Tests carried out was 142,954 which is a positive rate of around 0.50%, which is more or less the average for the whole of this month. Daily figures here: https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/testing

65549 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, #948 of 1094 🔗

It’s getting difficult to track down real data as they spread it over so many different sites, webpages, wishy-washy wording and so on.

Be too easy to see through all the bullshit if it was all laid out clear as day on one page wouldn’t it?

65457 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #949 of 1094 🔗

But beyond ‘false’ outcomes for both types of tests, there is the simple questionability of what is found – namely disconnected strands of RNA that *might* be related to a virus. Then you have the whole question of what mere ‘viral presence’ means in a context where every body has millions of microbes present – and needs such.

Imagine a thought experiment :

The common cold is suddenly declared ‘a deadly virus’. The same type of test programme is instituted. What do you think would be the outcome?

This is extremely bad science done by boys and girls with shiny toys, and a given to political pole-climbing class with little proper education or grasp of even what the word ‘science’ means..

Whenever I hear the term ‘first class education’ used indiscriminately, I always think people like Cameroon with a ‘First’ in PPE from Oxford.

‘Nuff said.

65401 swedenborg, 4, #950 of 1094 🔗

https://twitter.com/kylamb8/status/1287507705993797632/photo/1
“South Africa: Mandatory wearing of masks under partial easing of restrictions from May 1 /update 12Wearing of masks in public to be compulsory under new regulations partially lifting lockdown from May 1; follow authority directives”
https://www.garda.com/crisis24/news-alerts/336291/south-africa-mandatory-wearing-of-masks-under-partial-easing-of-restrictions-from-may-1-update-12
South Africa h as seen an explosion of  C-19 cases in the past month. They’re at 30.5 degrees S latitude… their typical winter flu season which begins between April or June.

65409 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 10, #951 of 1094 🔗

“Refusing to wear a mask is probably the smallest thing you can do to fight back, and perhaps one of the hardest.The bullies will try to intimidate you, as will the Gov, but in the end, unless you make a stand, you will be a wearing a mask for the rest of your life.”

https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1287659791729537024

65461 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 12, #952 of 1094 🔗

Look at these comments:

My wife and I went to Sainsbury’s yesterday not wearing masks and was waiting for a backlash, but nothing, in fact a woman approached me to say well done for not conforming, she was wearing one but then decided not too, made me feel good

Shopping all day yesterday without a mask, no one said a word and looked vaguely envious

I just got back from holiday and went to my local Tesco Express without a Mask. Approx 50% of the customers were wearing masks. No challenges, just pleasentries from the unmasked staff and fellow non mask wearing customers all smiling at each other. Well done

A: If only there were more of us.
B: There will be if we keep doing it & especially if we can do it looking normal and unstressed. My husband had this operating principle at work that I’ve always remembered and tried to follow: ‘Lead by example’. The ripples will spread outwards.

Yay!!!

65476 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #953 of 1094 🔗

YAY! I think your right.

65479 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #954 of 1094 🔗

”lead by example” printed T-shirts would be excellent uniform for us un-nappied shoppers

65538 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 3, #955 of 1094 🔗

Ideal slogan…not to obviously confrontational or conspiracy-related..

65565 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #956 of 1094 🔗

Yay indeed.
NEVER GIVE UP.

65414 Mark, replying to Mark, 5, #957 of 1094 🔗

Institutionalised panic:

Coronavirus: Spain quarantine was ‘right thing to do’
Imposing a 14-day quarantine on people arriving in the UK from Spain was “the right thing to do”, a minister has said.

Care Minister Helen Whately told BBC Breakfast the government acted “rapidly and decisively” after seeing data suggesting rates of Covid-19 were “going up rapidly in many parts of Spain”.

65422 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark, 3, #958 of 1094 🔗

Rapidly
very quickly; at a great rate.
“the business is expanding rapidly”

Not sure about that, more fear mongering and inappropriate language

65428 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 6, #959 of 1094 🔗

It’s pretty much an outright lie. I am curious to know how many of them know they are lying and how many are just lazy and parrot out whatever crap they get fed by whoever is feeding it to them.

65438 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 3, #960 of 1094 🔗

She is not what I would call ‘impressive’, to be polite!

65441 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 5, #961 of 1094 🔗

… as the saying goes :

“You know when they’re lying. It’s when they speak.”

You’ve got a generous nature, Julian . I can see why, but it’s hard to comprehend the level of stupidity in those responsible to be required four months on to actually *believe* the nonsense being puked up by government.

65475 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 2, #962 of 1094 🔗

Thanks for saying I am generous! I had a big argument with a sceptic friend yesterday as she was defending the PM, to whom she still ascribes some good intentions. The people at the top all know it’s a lie, just curious to know how far it goes. Yes, I expect they are selected for the ability to lie, but I think also selected for the ability to go along unquestioningly with the herd when it’s convenient, without troubling their little brains one way or the other with the truth – it’s easier to be convincing if you just repeat stuff you’ve been told without having looked into it yourself. For example, how many MPs would be able to accurately estimate risks per age group, IFR?

65591 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, #963 of 1094 🔗

defending the PM, to whom she still ascribes some good intentions.”

I had to laugh at that – fighting your way through a jungle of lying, psychopathic narcissism and blather to find some ‘good intentions’!!!!!!!

65458 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #964 of 1094 🔗

I think those who know they are lying mostly believe it is a noble lie , told for the Greater Good. The more cynical probably regard it as a necessary lie, told for the good of the Party (and their own careers).

As for how many that is, good question. These are professional liars who have risen to the top in a political system that actively and very strongly selects for the ability to lie. So it will never be easy to unmask them.

65440 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Mark, 4, #965 of 1094 🔗

Will Grant Shapps have to quarantine though?

List of exemptions:

“Crown servants or government contractors travelling to the UK for essential government work”

Wouldn’t call his work “essential”, but still ……

65455 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Margaret, 4, #966 of 1094 🔗

He’ll quarantine alright. The government will make a big song and dance about how he’s doing it, and remind people how we are STILL “all in this together”.

It would probably have been better if Shapps wasn’t affected.

65418 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #967 of 1094 🔗
65450 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, 2, #968 of 1094 🔗

Sorry, I just couldn’t bear to listen to Boris.
The comments are interesting though. The first few are sickeningly sycophantic but those further down really get to the point!

65508 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to swedenborg, #969 of 1094 🔗

I do not want to hear anything from Boris

65421 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 4, #970 of 1094 🔗

Spain quarantine = EU negotiation tactic and keep Nicola Stalin (Sturgeon) in check.
Definitely nothing to do with health of the nation!

65433 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to FrankiiB, 2, #971 of 1094 🔗

Or is it part of psych ops to soften us up for the untested vaccine?

65435 ▶▶ Basics, replying to FrankiiB, #972 of 1094 🔗

Willie Rennie has asked for sturgeons decision making on spainish quarantine to be made public. Doubtful anything was recorded as sturgein is a verbal operator if unanswered lockdown decision making foi replies are anything to go by.

The stalin salmond spat o doom is bubbling to surface today with a minor sky news report. Is this a begining of a new c19 frint. Salmond famously stated he had a fight to fight but woukd let tge black death o doom sweep through before he brings forth his fight back – lying in parliament and civil service collusion were trailed as the battle ground.

65448 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to FrankiiB, 2, #973 of 1094 🔗

Most likely. The Spanish took a pop at the UK over Brexit negotiations. Maybe Boris trying to throw his weight ( ahem ) around?

65483 ▶▶ DRW, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #974 of 1094 🔗

As well as another “Leicester” theatric

65432 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 14, #975 of 1094 🔗

From the gov.uk website, You can refuse to accept a fixed penalty notice and say you will go to trial.

https://www.gov.uk/caution-warning-penalty

Clog up the system and annoy them.

65447 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #976 of 1094 🔗

Precisely what I intend, nobody gets to see my, legit, medical records until it gets to Court where I shall win, not that it will ever come to that.

65466 ▶▶▶ Telpin, replying to karenovirus, 8, #977 of 1094 🔗

asking you to provide details/Proof of what is confidential info, could itself be seen as discriminatory and contrary to the Equality Act. Many people don’t realise that individual employees could be personally liable to compensate victims under the Act. The government, transport operators and all shop owners ( if they wish to comply with that Act) should be clear that people should not be singled out and questioned as this is in itself discriminatory. It’s utterly disgrace that C Dick should in effect be encouraging people to break the law. And I find it equally disgraceful that the MSM are not making this clear as well. We’re becoming a nation of intolerant bullies. Please refer to Law or Fiction website for details.

65434 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #978 of 1094 🔗

4 cases found in Vietnam. This seems to be how people want their lives to be controlled in future.
Vietnam detects first locally transmitted Covid-19 cases since April
Nation which had been praised for its swift action against coronavirus brings in strict new disease prevention measures

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/vietnam-evacuates-80000-tourists-amid-new-covid-19-cases-in-danang

Vietnam is evacuating 80,000 people from the central city of Danang and reimposing disease-prevention measures, after four local coronavirus cases were detected, the first to be recorded in the country for more than three months.

65467 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #979 of 1094 🔗

And meanwhile in Sweden…

65523 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark B, 4, #980 of 1094 🔗

If you go on to the YouTube page for the Tegnell interview you’ll find most comments are supportive, but the ones that are not clearly hate the man with a passion. I think it’s a fair bet to say they hate him because his strategy has contradicted their view of the world, rather than out of concern for Swedes. He is accused of being arrogant – so Vallance isn’t?

65517 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #981 of 1094 🔗

4 cases in a country far away and of course the Guardian are all over it.

Meanwhile, it’s revealed our authorities have been hyping up the number of deaths and fudging the figures and barely a fucking squeak.

65445 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 13, #982 of 1094 🔗

Well, who’d have thunk it? The government’s proposed weight-loss drive is based on calories and junk science.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/boris-johnson-obesity-drive-will-not-be-bossy-or-nannying

Other measures include a ban on the sale of chocolates, crisps and sweets at checkouts and displaying calories on menus in restaurants and pubs, including for alcoholic drinks, which are estimated to account for nearly 10% of the calorie intake of those who drink.

Whateley said: “what we saw with the sugary drinks levy is the widespread reformulation of the products.”

That was yet another boost for Big Pharma and the fake food industries. Artificial sweeteners might be better for your teeth but some are neurotoxins and they are all just as fattening as sugar, for reasons that have nothing to do with calories.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/26/lose-5lb-save-nhs-100m-says-matt-hancock-coronavirus-wake-up/
An army of “weight loss coaches” at GP surgeries will be trained to persuade millions of people to change their diets and reform couch potato lifestyles.

GPs’ pay will be boosted for increasing the number of overweight patients referred to slimming clubs and online weight loss programmes . Doctors will also be told to prescribe exercise and social activities, and an NHS 12-week weight loss app will be launched on Monday.
Those who are overweight can expect much more “direct communication” from their GP, with family doctors told to help people shed the pounds in the same way they would urge them to stop smoking.

This, apparently is being instigated in order to protect the NHS !

Everyone who is overweight should lose at least 5lbs in order to save countless lives and spare the NHS a £100million cost, the Health Secretary has said.

Mr Hancock said the campaign, which will see mass TV advertisements starting at 6pm on Monday, would “support people to make the healthiest choices for themselves and their families, and help protect the NHS”.

Sounds like another huge bossying and nannying smokescreen, while the UK public is brainwashed with yet more dodgy science .

65454 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #983 of 1094 🔗

Find it interesting that they are using ‘protecting the NHS’ as an incentive. The glorification of the health service in this country is deeply toxic, an overhang of the empire, the exceptionalistic need to have something that is ‘world-beating’ (even though it’s average) and it’s partly why we are in the mess we are.

65486 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Poppy, 3, #984 of 1094 🔗

The NHS psy-op death cult

65502 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 2, #985 of 1094 🔗

I called this out from the moment I first heard about the propsed nhsclap. I vomited first of course and then said the ungodly contrived praise of the NHS will be akin to the lionisation of the British armed forces during the first and middle stages of the 9/11 wars. Note, not the later stages because the psychopaths have got what they wanted by then.

It has been used for the same purpose during this killer death bug o bug episode – get the public to celebrate and support the NHS so that the pyschopathic measures they want can be brought in unoppossed.

65474 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #986 of 1094 🔗

Do you think Cressida Dick might encourage the public into fat shaming?

65584 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to bluemoon, 1, #987 of 1094 🔗

Not sure about the fat shaming, but I do think we should shame police officers who bungle anti-terrorist operations that lead to shooting innocent civilians dead.

65485 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #988 of 1094 🔗

They are doing that loose the fat drive because THE LOCKDOWN has caused nearly everybody in the UK to put on about 3 more stone in weight because they have been sitting on their sofas watching the telly and eating pizza and drinking beer for the last 4 months.
I saw my mate the other day and he had put on about another 3 stone since I last saw him.

65499 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 4, #989 of 1094 🔗

People have been eating and drinking more because they’re depressed, worried or bored.

Sugar, sweeteners and salty, fatty foods are addictive.

If you’re poor, you’ll buy cheap “food”, the stuff that fills the supermarket shelves with pretty boxes full of “food” which is little more than processed grains, high fructose corn syrup and rapeseed oil. This isn’t as nutritious as “real” food, so our body asks for more because it’s hungry for nutrients.

Carby food also creates an insulin spike, which leads to a blood sugar crash, which leads to eating more carby food.

65577 ▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #990 of 1094 🔗

Yep – completely guilty of eating lots more, and rubbish food, for all 3 reasons. I am no longer just overweight – during lockdown I have got FAT. Gross. Must go back on the 5:2 diet before winter. It worked really well and after the 2nd week was very easy to do and stick to for 12 months. Then lockdown arrived.

65563 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 2, #991 of 1094 🔗

I’ve lost a stone with fretting.
Horse is pleased about it!

65585 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Two-Six, #992 of 1094 🔗

I put on weight when the lockdown first started, am now more than halfway to getting rid of the excess again.

65503 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #993 of 1094 🔗

Doctors are not trained in nutrition and purposefully shuns nutrition. Imagine GPs as healthy coaches without proper nutrition as part of that. Can only imagine that includes drugs, shakes, artificial sweeteners (with many side effects) and telling people that exercise is a must.

Sadly many obese people have such inflamed bodies that exercise will be painful and therefore they will try it once and never again. Inflammation needs to be reduced following a proper whole food diet and fixing nutrient deficiencies and then exercise will add value.

65505 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #994 of 1094 🔗

We absolutely cannot trust any nutrition advice by the Government. They still use the outdated food pyramid. At the bottom of the pyramid they recommend that we stuff ourselves with a lot of carbohydrates. They even recommend low fat diets that have been debunked. We need good quality fats in our diet and good quality proteins (the building blocks of our bodies)
.
We are all different and our bodies react differently to different foods – it is not as simple as calories in and out. Some people are very sensitive to carbohydrates and gain weight weight quickly.

65548 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Victoria, 1, #995 of 1094 🔗

TRUE. I wish more people understood this.

65588 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Victoria, 1, #996 of 1094 🔗

When I’m asked about it, I advise people carrying a lot of weight to first make a note of everything they eat. Then cut down. Not stop or give up anything, but just cut down. I only recommend they see a nutritionist (advisable) after they see initial results.

Increasing exercise comes later, or as you say it is self-defeating.

65510 ▶▶ davews, replying to Cheezilla, #997 of 1094 🔗

I regular check my weight. 5lb is within the variability of the scales, time of day, and whether you are dressed at the time. Of course at the moment I can’t even get into my GPs surgery for him to advise me on his weight…. (marginally overweight on BMI scale but heck I do a lot of outside exercise)

65512 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #998 of 1094 🔗

Boris needs to lose 5 stone, not 5 lbs! Who is going to tell the nurses?

65539 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #999 of 1094 🔗

OMG, so much wrong with this…. where does one start??

But yes, let’s incentivize the dipshit GPs to fob off every overweight patient with a genuine medical concern onto the fat farm division. Because they aren’t already completely lazy and useless the way it is.

I am actually mortified by this… and that it’s coming from a fat fucker is just the cherry on top.

65581 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to TyLean, 1, #1000 of 1094 🔗

They generally do this anyway. The standard line is: “stop smoking, drink less, eat less, exercise more.”

65593 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1001 of 1094 🔗

‘Protect the NHS’. ‘Our NHS’. ‘Frontline’. ‘Heroes’… The new kneejerk endorsement that says ‘this is good, honest’.

65751 ▶▶ Steve, replying to Cheezilla, #1002 of 1094 🔗

I called this one weeks ago. I saw the amount of soft drinks, sweets, crisps and ice cream we were delivering throughout the lock down. I told all my friends and family that the next thing will be an obesity epidemic.

66060 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Cheezilla, #1003 of 1094 🔗

The outcome would be much better if the state made mass sport free for children and adults: free swimming, football clubs, martial arts.

65452 microdave, replying to microdave, 5, #1004 of 1094 🔗

I don’t know if this image will appear automatically, if not just click the link. It will (hopefully) bring a smile to your face, whilst showing the absurdity of the situation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ed3pRRtWoAIfw-M?format=png&name=small

65463 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to microdave, 1, #1005 of 1094 🔗

It doesn’t cause me to smile but underscores how barkingly mad the whole business is.

65469 ▶▶ Edna, replying to microdave, #1006 of 1094 🔗

😂 😁 😂

65453 Mark, replying to Mark, 24, #1007 of 1094 🔗

The twin ironies of mask enforcement

Irony: “a situation in which something which was intended to have a particular result has the opposite or a very different result”

We now know that the new coronavirus was in fact not unduly dangerous in societal terms, resulting in levels of death and sickness that are not significantly out of line overall with levels experienced in recent past years, without undue disruption resulting. We know that there are significant levels of pre-existing immunity in the population, and it is most likely that this is to some extent due to cross-immunities resulting from past infection with other coronavirus colds.

Irony number 1

To the extent that social distancing and mask use have any effect in reducing the prevalence of viral respiratory infections, they must therefore reduce the effectiveness of the very thing that has protected us from this latest addition to the suite of coronavirus colds that are endemic in humanity.

Irony number 2

While the attribution of motivation in others is always necessarily speculative, and open to debate, we are often told that the purpose of the government imposing mask use by law is to reduce fear and encourage people to come back to the shops. The argument is that people are not returning to the shops and to work because they are afraid of this disease (unsurprisingly, given the unprecedented propaganda campaigns waged to achieve precisely that end by the government and by mass and social media “elites”). Therefore, supposedly, if people think that masks can protect them both individually and societally, they will feel reassured and empowered to return to normal.

But in reality, it’s clear that all mask wearing does is reinforce the feeling of abnormality and danger, for most people. Nobody really believes that a mask is a complete protection, especially given the absence of clear evidence to support that idea, and the resulting track record of mixed messages. So all it does is confirm for unsure people that there supposedly is something really to be afraid of out there. In this, it is just like the “institutionalised panic” we now have, illustrated by the snap government decision to arbitrarily ruin the holidays and lives of thousands of people by imposing absurdly unnecessary quarantines. Largely unenforced, there is barely a pretence that these measures are actually effective in any medical sense. Rather they seem intended to give people confidence that Big Brother is on the case. Instead, they foment more fear by reconfirming the uncertain in the false idea that there is something really dangerous out there.

So we have a government policy not just to promote but to enforce by law something which is actively harmful on two counts. If it has any effect at all on the spread of infections, it makes us more vulnerable to future new diseases. And it encourages the continuation of the very same irrationally fearful behaviour that has imposed the vast majority of the costs of this otherwise relatively unremarkable new addition to the battery of existing colds. The very same fear that causes the costs of the response to this new cold to continue to mount with every week that passes without a return to normal activity.

65459 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Mark, 15, #1008 of 1094 🔗

Couldn’t agree more. This is why I think we’re being run by genuine psychopaths. Imagine actively harming the populace in order to save your own career and reputation, to avoid simply admitting that you made a mistake. Ironically, the longer they put off admitting error, the worse the fallout will be when it all finally comes crashing down.

65465 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 10, #1009 of 1094 🔗

If you’re looking for a challenge and have a bit of spare time, you could write a book on this. I am rubbish at history, just trying to think of equivalent instances of mass hysteria in the past. If there were any, how did we move on from them? I was talking to a friend on the weekend who knows all this is utter bollocks but isn’t angry, and I wish I could be like her. I was saying to the Mrs this morning it’s like waking up and finding that everyone has started believing the earth is flat again. Even if it hasn’t affected my life a great deal (I am lucky) I simply can’t just ignore it. Perhaps I should, otherwise I will probably go mad.

65470 ▶▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Julian, 3, #1010 of 1094 🔗

I can only recall the instance of HG Wells’ book “War of the Worlds” being read on radio, and the population mistook it for a real alien invasion. But that wasn’t a deliberate act.

65482 ▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to thedarkhorse, 4, #1011 of 1094 🔗

The witch trials 15th- 17th century. Almost quarter of a million killed across Europe.

65496 ▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to PoshPanic, 8, #1012 of 1094 🔗

Judging by the way some folk are behaving, including some formerly close friends, especially in our rural backwater, I am expecting a mob at my village door anytime soon to take me to the ducking stool or wood pile. I’m easy to identify because I used to run a business locally and have challenged lots of absurd untrue posts on our community FB group and posted some medical and scientific articles.

65506 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to ShropshireLass, 2, #1013 of 1094 🔗

You blasphemed in the church of the self righteous!

65572 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to PoshPanic, #1014 of 1094 🔗

Twentieth century socialism: minimum of fifty million dead worldwide, not counting those starved to death through lunatic policies or those killed in wars “for the cause”.

65493 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #1015 of 1094 🔗

It was. It was the world’s first experiment in mass media behavioural change.

65501 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Julian, 3, #1016 of 1094 🔗

You should not envy your friend. People like her are why people like us are going to suffer immensely. This is “first they came for the socialists…” mentality and the point of that poem is that we cannot reserve our anger for when hell touches us. Injustice is injustice, and if you aren’t mad as hell, you are asleep. It’s ever-so-convenient to not care right now.

65532 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 2, #1017 of 1094 🔗

Cheers, Julian, I appreciate the compliment, but I know my own limitations. Hopefully people much better and more experienced at it will be writing books covering this stuff – Toby for one.

It sure can be tricky to retain confidence in one’s own sanity when the bulk of society moves away from reason on an issue. Not sure I have any solutions, mind…

Places like this definitely do help.

65468 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Mark, 4, #1018 of 1094 🔗

Very well said. A couple of months ago, I probably would have said that I was astonished that the government didn’t know this or, if they did know, astonished that they didn’t act on that knowledge.

The serverly depressing thing is that now, I believe they probably do know this but for some unintelligible reason, they choose not to act on it. When I say unintelligible, I mean to normal people; politicians obviously are not normal.

65516 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Edna, 1, #1019 of 1094 🔗

Cheers, Edna. This whole coronapanic has been basically a series of revelations of ever-increasing levels of absurd incompetence (to put the only charitable interpretation possible on their actions) on the part of our supposed betters, imo.

65518 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Edna, 1, #1020 of 1094 🔗

Well, I suspect they like power and want to hold on to it. That’s “normal” for some, I suppose.

65491 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Mark, 2, #1021 of 1094 🔗

This is an excellent and succinct summary of the situation. Worth trying to get it published anywhere? Maybe Toby could help? Can we quote bits of it to fellow sceptics who are not members of this site?

65507 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #1022 of 1094 🔗

Thanks for the compliment! Please do feel free to copy and paste all or extracts, or share via the link button (top right of each comment, for any who haven’t spotted it).

65561 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 2, #1023 of 1094 🔗

Sums it up.
Have you noticed that the Fascists never now talk about the symptoms of Covid, chances of dying, etc? It’s now simply the Bogeyman that all zombie morons believe in unthinkingly.

65456 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 23, #1024 of 1094 🔗

Went into my local pharmacy this morning to pick up my mother’s prescription (she’s on 8 (!) daily medications at 92, so does her bit to keep Big Pharma in trillions of dollars). I went in maskless but shop empty and nobody said anything. As I was waiting for the assistant to bring out the big white bag stuffed with pill boxes, I espied a sign on a shelf saying “masks for children 4 to 8”. I said, loudly but politely in the hearing of the pharmacist and her assistants, that surely they weren’t selling masks for children as young as 4. Oh yes, said the pharmacist. I replied that they were complicit in child abuse and that the whole thing was a big hoax. Nervous giggle from the assistant who was serving me, the rest just hung their heads in shame or embarrassment. Took the bag of medicines and walked out.

65494 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Gillian, 10, #1025 of 1094 🔗

Great that you challenged selling masks for 4 year olds.

Your mother is a typical example of polypharmacy. They normally start with one prescription drug, then due to the side effects of the next drug they are then prescribed more and more drugs. In some instances some of these drugs then have contraindications to some of the others and health continues to deteriorate. So sad.

65534 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Gillian, 3, #1026 of 1094 🔗

My wife and a few parents of friends and the same – bags and bags of pills most of which were to counteract the side-effects of the other ones.

Found this handy website:

https://www.rxlist.com/drug-interaction-checker.htm

Type in the drugs and see how they interact. It uses known problems as reported to the various authorities by drug companies and individuals.

I know both the UK and US have websites where you can report any possible side-effects you’ve had.

My wife had a lot of red warnings, questions date GP who admitted he knew there were “some minor interactions”, she came off them and now only takes 1 prescription medicine and never felt better.

Her friend showed her interrelation list to her pharmacist daughter who just hugged and continued handing out her full prescription list without question and she is getting more and more doolally by the day, we think they are trying to kill her off quickly with all the drugs. A friend thinks the same his happening with his ageing mother who they keep pushing DNR to.

65471 ShropshireLass, replying to ShropshireLass, 10, #1027 of 1094 🔗

Update on masks and disability issue for exempted. Printed the information out copied below and went up to the shops in my village to speak to the staff in each and provide a copy. One had clearly seen the FB post about the mask notice and my comments because I was greeted with caution at their entrance. I was wearing my exempt lanyard. I gave the example a LS had put in their comment here yesterday about replacing ‘exempt’ with a race or religion, and said that would obviously be discrimination to not permit those people to enter – so the same applied to exempt persons. I was allowed in, unmasked! Staff were masked in 2 shops, unmasked in 3rd. 2 said they would pass the paper I gave them to managers and were friendly. Manager of the 3rd shop was present, (masked) and served me with a frown from behind her screen, without speaking!
What counts as discrimination? Discrimination happens when someone puts you at a disadvantage. You should be able to go about your daily life as anyone else would expect to. If you cannot, it may be discrimination, depending on the situation .
The most common types of discrimination in public and private services are:
·        direct discrimination, where someone treats you unfairly because of your impairment or condition
·        indirect discrimination, where a business has not considered your needs
·        discrimination by perception, where someone treats you in a certain way because they make assumptions about your impairment or condition.
· Equality Advisory & Support Service
· Helpline : 0808 800 0082
· Web : http://www.equalityadvisoryservice.com
[ Found this on a website so copied and pasted onto the page I dished out ]
Imogen Jolley from solicitors Simpson Millar said: “The legislation clearly states that some people are exempt from the new rules which require members of the public to wear a face covering when in a shop, confined public space, or on public transport.
“However, while it’s relatively easy to see if a child is of a certain age, some disabilities are less apparent and there are worrying reports to suggest that some people are being singled out as a result. That amounts to discrimination.
“It’s absolutely essential that supermarket chiefs and shop managers act now to educate their employees over the rights of disabled people specifically with the terms of the new rules in mind to prevent individuals being refused entry, turned away or asked to leave.
“If not, they would be in breach of the Regulations introduced in relation to the wearing of face coverings and their Equality Act Duties.”
Only a ‘relevant person’ has the authority to prevent access to a relevant place, ask a person to leave or remove a person if they are contravening the Regulations, excluding exempted persons. The Regulation defines a relevant person as a) a constable, b) community support officer, c) a TfL (transport) official or d) a person designated by the Secretary of State for the purposes of this regulation.
Applicable legislation:
The Health Protection (Coronavirus Wearing of Face Coverings in a Relevant Place) (England) Regulations 2020
The Equality Act 2020 (which prohibits unfavourable treatment of anyone because of, or for a reason related to, disability).

65488 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to ShropshireLass, 5, #1028 of 1094 🔗

You are doing a great job. It is imperative that all shops (large and small) know this information and act accordingly.

65472 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1029 of 1094 🔗

Scary reading, blueprint for what is coming soon:

https://acmedsci.ac.uk/file-download/51353957

Published by the Academy of Medical Sciences, London not the Uk Government.

65504 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1030 of 1094 🔗

Urgh, I wish you hadn’t posted that – seriously depressing to read what the gov is clearly going to do. Horrible, absolutely horrible. When will anyone with some actual power just stop and say ‘what the fuck are we doing? This is not worth it’.

We’ve literally entered a time where no cost is too great, despite the low risks presented by Covid-19 itself, no adjustments have been made to take into account the improved treatments for those who did get seriously ill.

65521 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark II, 3, #1031 of 1094 🔗

Sorry to spoil your rainy morning.

Can’t go out an garden so keeping myself amused now I’ve fixed my printer and printed up copies of the toolkit from the laworfiction website to take out with em whenever I go out again.

Just been going through the “Fellows” and Council members of the Academy of Medical Sciences:

https://acmedsci.ac.uk/fellows/fellows-directory/council-members

Amazing how many of them link back to UCL, ICL, University of Edinburgh, University of Cambridge, GSK, Wellcome trust and so on which are all institutions with ties one way or another to our favourite billionaire.

65525 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1032 of 1094 🔗

The worst bit is the part about face coverings being encouraged as a ‘social norm’

65531 ▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Carrie, 1, #1033 of 1094 🔗

Yikes – haven’t got to that yet. Feeling suicidal.

65529 ▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Awkward Git, #1034 of 1094 🔗

Dear Awkward Git. Have you emailed that document to Toby to add to his resources list for the next newsletter? Downloaded and saved to my Covid-19 file on my computer but have not read yet. Did you read through my post above with a copy of the 1 page document I printed out and took to our village shops this morning? Has a useful quote from a solicitor in it, plus definition of discrimination, and link to an independent organisation that gives advice on equality and human rights issues.

65587 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #1035 of 1094 🔗

Read your post – well done.

Only thing keeping me sane is annoying the believers and authority plus booze while cooking.

I’ve just printed up the 6 page laworfiction toolkit document to take out with me with the fines and compensation payable highlighted very prominently.

Don’t know when I’m going out next as I hate shopping and wife is swinging between wildly despondent and militant and wanting to hit people so stocked up with food last week while still got some money spare but they are ready for the next sally forth out of the trenches into the heathen border country of Staffordshire, Stokieland and North Shropshire.

65592 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to ShropshireLass, #1036 of 1094 🔗

Not sent it to Toby yet, don’t know if he’s still on holiday or not.

Last thing I bugged him with was asking him what he thought of the medical advice given by CMO Whitty et al on 30th Jan 2020 so Handjobs could concoct the serious and imminent threat declaration on 10th February 2020 but he’s not commented about ti in his websites so not sure if he’s still on holiday or not.

65513 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1037 of 1094 🔗

I really believe the time has now come to ignore whatever squawking the various governments, councils, devolved assemblies, etc, etc come out with. Just ignore it en masse. There comes a point when enough is enough. We are at that point now.

65522 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1038 of 1094 🔗

Indeed! Slightly encouraging from our POV is that their estimation is that 38% of the population are currently ‘dissenting’, plus 24% ‘frustrated’ and wanting more restrictions lifted… so taken together that puts ‘us’ in the majority. They deem 38% of the population as ‘trusting’ – it is those we need to convince!

Incidentally their recommendation of people taking 10 mcg of vitamin D is vastly under the amount that would do anyone any good… Seems like they want to be *seen to be* encouraging it, but not in an amount that would actually have any effect…

65551 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 4, #1039 of 1094 🔗

We only need another 13% to dissent!

65555 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1040 of 1094 🔗

Page 15 – ‘The likely impact of lockdown on the levels of exposure to other pathogens, vitamin D metabolism, and the activity of adrenocortical hormones, which affect immunity. These factors are likely to play an important role on the immunological resistance to infections and their influence needs to be considered in the approach to winter, including how best to modify these factors if possible.’

Is this an admission that a) we could be locked down again in winter and b) that lockdown results in less exposure to other pathogens and vitamin D, thereby weakening the immune system?

65557 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1041 of 1094 🔗

I got as far as the introduction and realised it’s pony. Either lockdowns work or they don’t, they can’t have it both ways.

65477 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #1042 of 1094 🔗

Americans love a good camera and a brutal hospital scene of chaos and suffering. At least American media adore bringing us the gripping fear of journalist ’embeds’ full of dust and pixilated gore from the front line.

So, where is it then? Why are British screens empty of American ICUs bulging at the seams runn8ng with blood? If this was a middle east invaisions our living rooms would be filled with American millitary reports.

What’s going on – why the lack of footage from American hospitals?

65573 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #1043 of 1094 🔗

About 2 months ago there was a film made by a nurse at New York City Hospital which showed absolutely not Covid patients being put alongside Covid victims by management, the reason was not made clear.

65586 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1044 of 1094 🔗

Jason Goodman was repeatedly questioning the lack of activity around hospitals in New York. One report he looked into was found to have been likely staged. Actors forming a queue on the street and the Doctor at the centre of the report a very dubious character with time to secretly film talking to camera in middle of death panic – and no colleagues challenging her.

65478 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1045 of 1094 🔗

Why would the Gates Foundation be giving grants to the UK Government?:

Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency Date: June 2020
Purpose: to prepare international GBS polysaccharides and human reference standards
Amount: $521,225
Term: 38
Topic: Pneumonia
Program: Global Health
Grantee Location: London
Grantee Website: http://www.mhra.gov.uk&nbsp ;

65511 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1046 of 1094 🔗

The Gates Foundation has also funded Bath university’s current (controversial) vaccine programme to the tune of millions of £s – the one which allegedly has suspect ingredients that allegedly cause sterility according to a whistleblower researcher. Fits in with Bill Gates’s alleged personal theory we must take urgent steps to drastically reduce the world’s human population to avoid destroying the planet. According to an American molecular biologist whose YouTube interview was taken down, he is friends with Fauci. Conspiracy theories they may be, but could there be some underlying truths?

65554 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to ShropshireLass, 6, #1047 of 1094 🔗

I think people need to review what they automatically dismiss as ‘conspiracy theories’.

Is it because that all such theories/claims are all inherently irrational and baseless (like the claim the moon is made of blue cheese)?

Or is it because they have been labelled as such by MSM (which as a matter of FACT is owned by a handful of billionaires and mega-corporations). And people don’t want to embarrass themselves socially or professionally by going against the ‘mainstream’ view of ‘truth’?

Truth is not always with the herd. And it takes a certain amount of courage to break away to find it.

65566 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, #1048 of 1094 🔗

Conspiracies happen every day – this is a fact.

65579 ▶▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Basics, 3, #1049 of 1094 🔗

But to accuse billionaires and their mega-corporations of co-operating to maintain and increase their wealth and power is a baseless conspiracy – according to the media owned by same billionaires and mega-corporations…hmmm!

65589 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Humanity First, #1050 of 1094 🔗

Fairs fair, you are right. Conspiracies happen every second – this is a fact.

66486 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, #1051 of 1094 🔗

We know the Chinese government ruling 1.2 billion people engage in conspiracies including locking up and attempting to brainwash virtually a whole nation (the Uighurs) while denying that is what they are doing. We know that Russia does also. We know Saudi Arabia does (including murdering and cutting up one of its own citizens in one of its embassies). You could add Iran, Pakistan and Qatar alkng with many others as countries that engage in secret conspiracies with malevolent intent.

You could say conspiracies are the way of the world, couldn’t you?

65772 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ShropshireLass, #1052 of 1094 🔗

According to the Alliance for Natural Health, Gates is funding 7 of the candidate vaccines..

66235 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to ShropshireLass, #1053 of 1094 🔗

No, but it will take 3- 34 years to prove it:
The physicist David Robert Grimes estimated the time it would take for a conspiracy to be exposed based on the number of people involved. His calculations used data from the PRISM surveillance program, the Tuskegee syphilis experiment, and the FBI forensic scandal. Grimes estimated that:

a Moon landing hoax would require the involvement of 411,000 people and would be exposed within 3.68 years;
climate-change fraud would require 405,000 people and would be exposed within 3.70 years;
a vaccination conspiracy would require a minimum of 22,000 people (without drug companies) and would be exposed within at least 3.15 years and at most 34.78 years depending on the number involved.

66498 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bruno, #1054 of 1094 🔗

Despite my observations about the prevalence of conspiracies in countries like China I think it’s best to avoid the word. Do the employees of Just Eat or McDonald’s believe they are involved in a conspiracy to make people fat? I doubt it…but they might as well be. Commercial interests and personal financial interests combine with a rather simplistic consumer service ideology to produce cognitive dissonance on a grand scale.

65574 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to peter, 4, #1056 of 1094 🔗

You couldn’t make it up. One thing I would suggest is that such a bribe might not be about personal financial gain for Gates or anyone else. Everyone assumes that everything is above board if ‘grants’ and ‘funding’ are charitable, and can’t possibly be traced back to personal financial gain. But for someone like Gates, the money’s irrelevant. He has an agenda based on his own peculiar obsessions and I think it is very dodgy when any government takes money from him, obviously compromising their independence regardless of whether anyone is personally benefiting financially.

65582 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1057 of 1094 🔗

There is simply no transparent accountatbility to trace that money and see it’s effect.

The Scottish Goverment cloak to darkness at will over anything they choose.

65575 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1058 of 1094 🔗

Why would BBC media action be getting gates money to commincate about shit to ‘Global/Asia’

BBC Media Action
Date: March 2019
Purpose: To create effective social and behaviour change communication interventions to shape demand and practices on Faecal Sludge Management in four focus states, and leverage government resources to disseminate them.
Amount: $2,994,305
Term: 35
Topic: Water, Sanitation and Hygiene
Regions Served: GLOBAL|ASIA
Program: Global Growth and Opportunity
Grantee Location: London
Grantee Website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/

Source: https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Quick-Links/Grants-Database/Grants/2019/03/OPP1206040

65651 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Awkward Git, #1059 of 1094 🔗

and that is just a small portion of the funding, Ferguson’s Imperial College modelling unit is funded by Gates. Follow the money

65495 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 7, #1060 of 1094 🔗

Just took a drive around town, though raining the pavements are busy but masks have disappeared, they must be really unpleasant to wear when cold and wet.

65497 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to karenovirus, 6, #1061 of 1094 🔗

I was literally just about to write that it would be interesting to see how many morons would be walking around in masks and struggling to breathe in today’s weather!

65498 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to IMoz, 8, #1062 of 1094 🔗

DIY waterboarding

65560 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1063 of 1094 🔗

Makes them even more porus than they already are!

65526 Nobody2020, 2, #1064 of 1094 🔗

Let’s assume the IFR is 1% (just for ease of illustration).

If I say the bar has been set very low for disproportionate actions the response will be in the form, 1% of 60M is still 600k dead.

Ok, so the argument is working on the absoluate number of dead. These measures are apparently justified and proportionate for this metric.

Let’s say the population in question doubles to 120M. If it is the absolute number that determines the level of intervention then the IFR required is reduced to 0.5%.

So over time more measures can be justified for viruses that are weaker than before.

65535 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #1065 of 1094 🔗

People with dogs (see above photo). Never quite know what to make of people who have a black lab. I always wonder to myself, “What on earth do they get up to in there?”

65543 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #1066 of 1094 🔗

Lab reports.

65559 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #1067 of 1094 🔗

Is that a polite term for dog farts?

65536 Melangell, replying to Melangell, 4, #1068 of 1094 🔗

This is a test – for the last two weeks, all my posts show “waiting for moderation” then they disappear…

65541 ▶▶ davews, replying to Melangell, #1069 of 1094 🔗

Welcome Melangwell. Toby has been away for a week so presumably not able to approve new posters. You are obviously now in, so post away.

65547 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to davews, #1070 of 1094 🔗

Thanks Dave but I’ve been registered for a long time! Anyway glitch resolved now…

65550 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Melangell, #1071 of 1094 🔗

One things I’ve noticed is that when the number of comments gets very high it can be difficult to get them all to load. You have to keep fiddling with the cursor on the right side of the screen. And if they haven’t all loaded then your comments might be among the ones that haven’t loaded.
But I haven’t seen a “waiting for moderation” message. Perhaps you’re adding a link that they need to check.

65568 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Mike Smith, #1072 of 1094 🔗

It happened several times even though I’ve been (occasionally) posting on this site for quite a while, but all good now 🙂

65552 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Melangell, 3, #1073 of 1094 🔗

Melangell That happened to me too when I first joined. I wondered if it was part of a vetting process to check out that we were not infiltrators from the ‘other side’ i.e. lockdown zealots, or official censorship spies in disguise! Can’t be too careful these days; we are not exactly holding back with our criticisms of officials on here are we?

65558 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Melangell, 1, #1074 of 1094 🔗

It could be that you had more than 3 links in your post

65567 ▶▶▶ Melangell, replying to Victoria, #1075 of 1094 🔗

Nope, but all okay now 🙂

65646 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Melangell, #1076 of 1094 🔗

Toby said the moderator has moved on, mine have been waiting since yesterday

65542 Melangell, replying to Melangell, 9, #1077 of 1094 🔗

Living in gwlag Wales where masks have not (yet) been foisted upon us, my main act of civil disobedience is to refuse to use the chemical goop mandated at numerous shops. I carry with me a home made spritzer of eucalyptus oil in water and if anyone looks like they’re going to object, call out gaily, “I have my own!” before marching into the shop. Fools the Nazi at my local farm shop every time. It’s clear she doesn’t like it but doesn’t know what to do…

65562 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Melangell, #1078 of 1094 🔗

They have now !

65570 PoshPanic, 1, #1079 of 1094 🔗

May have already been posted, but just in case…

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/the-ethics-of-covid-19-treatment-studies-too-many-are-open-too-few-are-double-masked/

On the need the need for more rigorous testing of vaccine and treatment trials

65576 RickH, replying to RickH, 2, #1080 of 1094 🔗

A good article of the OffGuardian site, placing the current mpaign within the spectrum of terror.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/27/the-ultimate-divide-and-conquer/

65639 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RickH, 2, #1081 of 1094 🔗

Top rate, please repost on Mondays page

65578 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #1082 of 1094 🔗

One of my sons went mountain biking in Wales yesterday.
The guys running the mini bus to the top of the mountain said they were being watched and monitored and begged the passengers to wear their facemasks in the bus.

My son said that when they popped into shops to buy food later, it left him with a moral dilemma whether to stick up for his muzzling-is-nonsense principles and risk getting a small independent business into trouble with the official Karens.

The other son who, ironically, wears a dust mask at work, has downloaded the mask exempt badge as his phone screensaver. He commented that as soon as Autumn comes, everyone who coughs or sneezes will create the “Second Wave!!” plannedemic and they’ll be brandishing the syringes.

65626 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cheezilla, #1083 of 1094 🔗

Mmm but what about people that are exempt?

65653 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #1084 of 1094 🔗

Son doesn’t accept that he is exempt on medical grounds.
He’s essentially a very honest, kind person and the bus people were so stressed a hypothetical argument would have been cruel.
I saw how on edge my local cafe owner was about the silly regs. The official Karens are really putting the small businesses under a lot of stress.

65628 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, #1085 of 1094 🔗

It is not the responsibility of the small shopkeepers, it is your sons responsibility ONLY.

65643 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #1086 of 1094 🔗

I know. We tried to discuss the ins and outs but the mobile link kept cutting out as he drove home through the mountains, so we didn’t get too far with it.

Besides, he lives a long way from me and we don’t get much chance for long chats, so I didn’t want to spoil his sharing his account of a great time cycling, by banging on about covid. There’s another time for that.

He knows the virus numbers are nonsense but he’s basically a very considerate person and there are two valid ways of looking at the situation. He needs to get the longterm view. I’m still working on him!

65583 mjr, 1, #1087 of 1094 🔗
65596 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #1088 of 1094 🔗

My other half returned from an expedition to Waitrose early this morning.

Evidently – near 100% mask wearing – but she commented that the custom was remarkable sparse, and that if this goes on, the chain will be in deep doo-doo commercially.

65603 ▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to RickH, 3, #1089 of 1094 🔗

That was my experience of Morrisons & Asda last Friday & Sat.

65619 ▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to RickH, 2, #1090 of 1094 🔗

I think a lot of people who won’t wear masks are doing online delivery instead. So, unfortunately, shops like Waitrose may not suffer much.

65731 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to bluefreddy, 3, #1091 of 1094 🔗

If there is a drop in footfalls that information will hopefully feed through to the government – it doesn’t matter about sales. The mask edict was meant to give people the courage to go out shopping! Vide all those photos of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson out ‘shopping’ afore he announced the edict. it is small traders who will be hit if there is a drop in footfal in the high streetl – y’know solid supporters of the Tories usually.

66465 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to bluefreddy, #1092 of 1094 🔗

I understand your point but I suspect stores gain a lot of profit from people walking the aisles and making impulse purchases.

65850 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #1093 of 1094 🔗

The connection between obesity and severity of Covid19 has been well known for months . Anyone with basic observational skills would have noticed the increasing prevalence of obesity in the British population over the last 30 years . The causes are multiple but include the reduction of jobs requiring physical labour, the increased use of cars instead of walking, cycling, the increased consumption of junk food.

Obesity is not good for anyone and is linked to diabetes type 2, heart disease, strokes and cancer. Unsurprisingly it is also linked to poorer outcomes from infections including Covid19 .

The recent paper from the pro lockdown magazine the Lancet pointed out that obesity in western countries like the UK and US would explain the difference in morbidity and mortality of Covid19.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext

This peer reviewed paper also noted that lockdowns had NO EFFECT ON COVID MORTALITY rates .
.

66462 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Peter Thompson, #1094 of 1094 🔗

When I checked on obesity stats in Europe and elsewhere I couldn’t find any obvious correlation between high levels of obesity and high levels of Covid deaths. I was suprised to find the UK was not as bad as you might think…probably Brits are happy to flaunt their flab in ways people of other countries are not.

Users

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28James H13, 5, 1, 2, 2, 1, 4
28Jay Berger1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 6, 6, 6, 5
27Cristi.Neagu27
26BecJT17, 9
26arfurmo144, 1, 2, 5
25Mark B16, 4, 5
25Nic4, 1, 20
25Tom Blackburn36, 2, 14
24Lms230, 1, 0, 5, 18, 0, 0, 0, 0
23Gillian23
23Lili14, 3, 4, 2
23DavidC3, 6, 1, 3, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 3
22James Leary #KBF22
22JulieR3, 0, 0, 2, 4, 2, 0, 11, 0
21alison9, 12
20CarrieAH6, 7, 5, 0, 1, 1
19alw1, 14, 1, 3
19James0073, 3, 0, 13
19KBuchanan14, 2, 3, 0
19Azoumi12, 3, 1, 3, 0
18matt9, 3, 2, 0, 0, 4
17anti_corruption_tsar17
17bluemoon11, 6
16Edgar Friendly5, 3, 8
15Gtec15
15Wesley15
15wendy3, 2, 7, 3
15Edna8, 0, 2, 1, 0, 4
13Basileus13
13mhcp13
13AN other lockdown sceptic4, 9
13JohnB10, 0, 3
13PWL3, 5, 4, 1
13Melangell04, 0, 0, 0, 9
11smileymiley11
11Mike Collins3, 8
11thedarkhorse7, 1, 3
11Carrie3, 3, 5, 0
9Cbird9
9SweetBabyCheeses9
9Drawde9276, 3
9Peter Thompson8, 1
8fran8
8Lisa from Toronto8
8Telpin8
8Will3, 5
8petgor1, 0, 7
7Edward Giles7
7Ozzie7
7Steve Hayes7
6nfw6
6peter3, 3
6ambwozere33, 0
5Christopher5
5microdave5
5Moomin5
5RichardJames3, 2
5GLT5, 0, 0, 0
5DRW0, 0, 4, 0, 1
4Alan P4
4Ben Shirley4
4FrankiiB4
4jrsm4
4Nel4
4Keen Cook0, 4
4watashi2, 1, 1
3Che Strazio3
3Kelly deacons3
3Mike Smith3, 0
2Bella Donna2
2bluefreddy2
2Chris John2
2John Mirra2
2Nigel Sherratt2
2StevieH2
16097 Smith W1
1Catherine Young1
1Digital Nomad1
1Edward1
1Ewan Duffy1
1Jane1
1Stephen1
1Alice1, 0
1DressageRider1, 0
0Brommers0
0Bruno0
0CarrieAH0
0Catherine1230
0ChrisDinBristol0
0coalencanth120
0court0
0DentArthurDent0
0Eddie0
0Fred0
0Hugh0
0Jane in France0
0jazzman0
0Jonathan Palmer0
0Lockdown_Lunacy0
0Lynne0
0Mariawarmth0
0MRG0
0Northern Chubs0
0Rick0
0stec0
0Steve0
0SueL0
0Newmill Mark0, 0
0Ruth Sharpe0, 0, 0
0They dont like it up 'em0, 0, 0, 0
0PowerCorrupts0, 0, 00, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
-1Recusant-1
-8hotrod-8
-11BoneyKnee-11

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