2020-07-28

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/28/latest-news-87/
Published2020-07-28T11:27:08
Last updated2020-07-29T17:38:54
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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67109 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 4, #1 of 1641 🔗

Am I first?

67110 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 4, #2 of 1641 🔗

Then I’ll begin…

67117 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 66, #3 of 1641 🔗

By repeating what I put on the old thread.

Terrible how our country has been destroyed by dogma,

Thank God for this site – an oasis of sanity in the great Saharan desert of mass hysteria.

Not normally a toady but much praise and many thanks to Toby for making this oasis – this community of the sane and sanguine – possible.

67141 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to OKUK, 11, #4 of 1641 🔗

I second, third and fourth that.

68491 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to OKUK, 1, #5 of 1641 🔗

Thank you Toby, a beacon of sanity, midst the madness

67149 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 7, #6 of 1641 🔗

You’ll be getting death threat from HawkAnalyst!

67489 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to JohnB, 5, #7 of 1641 🔗

Brilliant. This is why I love this site, the humour and good-naturedness.

67111 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #8 of 1641 🔗
67529 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #9 of 1641 🔗

Down-ticked, as too slow. 🙂

67112 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 13, #10 of 1641 🔗

I think we need suggestions for slogans. Either to say to people or to leave lying around.

My suggestions are : “Do you honestly think THEY are wearing masks?” and “Hysterics and grown-ups. Which are you?”

67128 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mike Smith, 11, #11 of 1641 🔗

Tricky one trying to sum everything up…

“Masks are murder”? (H/T to Morrissey).

“A free people are not a masked people.”

“Fact: 99.9% of people have not died of Covid.”

67293 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to OKUK, 6, #12 of 1641 🔗

99.972% in the UK apparently.

67356 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to OKUK, 3, #13 of 1641 🔗

According to MSM in Ireland, you are not allowed to say that:

https://www.thejournal.ie/debunked-survival-rates-5103495-May2020/

Apologies for linking to a COVID19 bed wetting site.

67523 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #14 of 1641 🔗

About as honest as a BBC Reality Check! These are genuine survival rates – just as we talk about half a country’s population surviving the bubonic plague so we can talk about 99.9% plus surviving Covid-19… which was touted by the likes of Prof Ferguson as a modern plague.

67628 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to OKUK, 4, #15 of 1641 🔗

I loved the generic bit at the end about how to work out whether what you were being told was ‘misinformation’

“ Finally, see how you feel after reading it. A lot of these false messages are designed to make people feel panicked. They’re deliberately manipulating your feelings to make you more likely to share it.”

Because trustworthy mainstream media would never stoop this low. Perish the thought.

67746 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to matt, 1, #16 of 1641 🔗

lol! Of course not!! They wouldn’t put scary bass note synth noise as a soundtrack for their news reports would they?

67169 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Mike Smith, 20, #17 of 1641 🔗

Are you wearing the mask or is the mask wearing you?

67176 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mike Smith, 12, #18 of 1641 🔗

Mike, I honestly don’t think we’ll ever get through to the ‘true believers’ of this spamdemic. This, a ‘debate’ I tried with one on another site yesterday

Dope:(about slogans) How about “I decline to wear a mask, because I don’t care about my fellow man”.

Me:How about ‘ I decline to wear a mask because decades of available scientific research shows that they are ineffective and cause more harm than good. Now, get a grip children’

Dope:That’s right. Nobody wears masks in hospitals.

Me:Can’t believe you wrote that.If you think wearing a mask in Tesco is the same as wearing a mask in hospital, then you must have the intellect of a peanut.

Dope: The reason they are worn is the same.

Me: I feel embarrassed for you.

Dope:I find those that protest against vaccination and masks rather embarrassing.

Me:Very cerebral

67288 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to T. Prince, 14, #19 of 1641 🔗

Conflating not wanting to wear a mask and being against vaccinations is very, very sinister.

It’s becoming a thing.

67331 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to stewart, 11, #20 of 1641 🔗

Similarly, being very concerned about the side effects of a rushed vaccine isn’t the same as being an “anti-vaxxer”.

See here https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy for a side effect of the 2009 swine flu vaccine, which 6 million people in the UK received (I only found out about this yesterday… very disturbing)

It’s definitely very weird and sinister the way the UK seems to have, in a matter of days, adopted the same consensus of virtuous unanimity regarding masks, as is found in the USA.

67539 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Drawde927, 1, #21 of 1641 🔗

They’re brainwashed, hypnotised, mind-controlled. It is quite weird to see it in front of us, though.

(I also doubt the ‘unanimity’).

68145 ▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Drawde927, #22 of 1641 🔗

I know 2 women that went into a coma after receiving the swine flu vaccine and died

67362 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to T. Prince, 3, #23 of 1641 🔗

TP, if I may, that’s a bit unfair on peanuts … 😉

67258 ▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #24 of 1641 🔗

Slow boiling frogs!

67268 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #25 of 1641 🔗

Don’t infect me with your fear

67285 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to stewart, 6, #26 of 1641 🔗

A badge for the maskless: “This is a fear-free zone”

67414 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mike Smith, 5, #27 of 1641 🔗

Zombies wear masks.
Human beings don’t

Which are you?

67471 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #28 of 1641 🔗

Fuck ’em if they can’t take a joke.

You allowed to vote?

67496 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Mike Smith, 4, #29 of 1641 🔗

‘Distrust and verify’

From Mike Pompeo’s excellent anti CCP speech last week.

67532 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mike Smith, 7, #30 of 1641 🔗

Masks are not about safety, they’re about compliance.

67752 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to JohnB, 1, #31 of 1641 🔗

Certainly they’re nothing to do with safety. The manufacturers of the commonly-seen ‘blue masks’ are now printing disclaimers on the box. Note the wording CAREFULLY:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ec9KBE7WkAIH7Yt?format=png&name=small

The masks do not provide ANY protection against Cv19. Not “limited protection” – ANY protection. ANY!! In other words, they are TOTALLY EFFING USELESS!

Even worse is the suggestion by HM Dictatorship that an ear-loop mask (see disclaimer above!) can be made from a bit of old T shirt, and that this magic talisman will prevent infection. I mean, this is beyond obvious now.

It’s all about Compulsory Vaccination, folks. (Or at least, that’s Step 1 of the Agenda.) Stop the Compulsory Jab and you start to jam a spanner in the rest of Agenda 21, Agenda 2030 or whatever the Central Planners call their Orwellian superstate.

Don’t take my word for it – here’s Our Saviour Billy Gates to tell us plebs what he and his Overlords have in store for our glorious new future:

https://youtu.be/ZQcvuftqXFY

67534 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mike Smith, 6, #32 of 1641 🔗

Masking kids is child abuse.

67815 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Mike Smith, #33 of 1641 🔗

“Masks do more harm than good”. I’ll expand on this shortly.

68481 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Mike Smith, #34 of 1641 🔗

How about: “This thing is all but over. We need to get back to normal – old normal. With your mask, though, you’re telling us you want it dragged out even longer.”

Maybe add “That’s selfish isn’t it? Thoughtless too.”

And if you feel like launching into a lecture:

“Evidently we will never agree on this. Resolve, as I have, to try to live politely with people who do not agree with you and who never will.”

70173 ▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Mike Smith, #35 of 1641 🔗

DEPERSONALISING
DEHUMANISING
OPPRESSIVE

Always goes in threes dunnit?

67114 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #36 of 1641 🔗

https://twitter.com/NeilClark66/status/1287681814295961600

“When anyone tries to gaslight you by calling you a ‘crank’ , a ‘tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist’ or ‘Flat Earther’ for having perfectly legitimate & sensible concerns over a rushed through ‘Coronavirus’ vaccine & its side effects, just send them this.

67357 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, #37 of 1641 🔗

So, it will all be the FDA’s fault!

67551 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #38 of 1641 🔗

Mr Gates should consider that he is rapidly becoming a hindrance, rather than an asset, to his bosses.

67622 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to HawkAnalyst, #39 of 1641 🔗

BG “the side effects are just super-painful”.
Cheers Bill, that’s alright then.

67745 ▶▶ Jonathan, replying to HawkAnalyst, #40 of 1641 🔗

Essensially, what is the difference between wearing a tin-foil hat to protect oneself against microwave radiation, and wearing a mask which lets through viruses, to protect others in case you are carrying a “deadly disease” which is currently killing less than the Flu in July?!

68068 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jonathan, 1, #41 of 1641 🔗

I’m going to steal that. Thank you.

68149 ▶▶▶ sam, replying to Jonathan, 1, #42 of 1641 🔗

the difference one works and the other doesn’t
aluminium foil stops microwave radaition and masks don’t stop viruses
http://www.bioinitiative.org

67115 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #43 of 1641 🔗

‘Let Leicester out of lockdown’: Council sets out its alternative to continuing local restrictions

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/leicester-news/let-leicester-out-lockdown-council-4369044

67363 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to HawkAnalyst, #44 of 1641 🔗

One of the comments:

Not going to happen folks, just received my letter from Department of Health & Social Care saying Leicester City, Oadby & Wigston wil not have shielding relaxed until at least the next review on August

67498 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Cheezilla, #45 of 1641 🔗

Yep, know some people in the Leicester Gulag and that’s what they’ve been told/heard. They’re not happy…

67116 kbeanie, 30, #46 of 1641 🔗

Professor Karol Sikora on Twitter:

“Hospital admission data is such a useful way to track our progress.

The 7 day average for English hospital admissions is now well below 100. It was around 2700 at the peak.

Patients in mechanical ventilation beds also much lower.

No signs of any spike in that data.”

67118 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, #47 of 1641 🔗

Colleges Plan for Virus Testing, But Strategies Vary Widely

https://www.newsmax.com/headline/virus-outbreak-college-testing/2020/07/26/id/979054/

67376 ▶▶ ted, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #48 of 1641 🔗

For students heading to Colby College in Maine this fall, coronavirus testing is expected to be a routine part of campus life. All students will be required to provide a nasal swab every other day for two weeks, and then twice a week after that. All told, the college says it will provide 85,000 tests, nearly as many as the entire state of Maine has since the pandemic started.

If a single student attends Colby College under this policy of invasive abuse, they have rocks in the heads and probably should be determined ineligible for a college degree due to obvious mental incompetence. My god, how gleefully colleges are rehearsing a US culture of widespread gulag.

67555 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to ted, #49 of 1641 🔗

Spot on Ted. 🙂

67120 HawkAnalyst, 3, #50 of 1641 🔗

Nando’s is selling quarter of Peri Peri chicken for just £1.85 as full menu is reduced – Essex Live

https://www.essexlive.news/whats-on/food-drink/nandos-selling-quarter-peri-peri-4367202

67122 HawkAnalyst, 13, #51 of 1641 🔗

The problem of false positives from Covid-19 tests means UK is inflating its numbers – and taking wrong decisions

 https://www.rt.com/op-ed/495982-false-positive-covid19-uk/

67125 Biker, replying to Biker, 26, #52 of 1641 🔗

face the facts
you must wear a mask
on the face of it it seems a lot to ask
but you must wear the mask
really we shouldn’t have to ask
and should have paid more attention in class
then we wouldn’t have to harass
you non wearing subclass
face the facts
wear the mask on masse
Jumping Jack mask
it’s a mask mask mask
so i fixed a date with this lass
she turned up wearing a mask
i thought how is she gonna blow my brass
so i poured some wine in her glass
and i dared to ask
if i could fill her crevasse
i thought shit we’ve reached an impasse
so i took her to an Indian
and we ordered a madras
she told me she was catholic
and we need to go to mass
she went into the Chapel i sat outside on my ass
she found salvation i smoked some grass
shit this is a poem about a mask
then i heard a bang and the state dropped teargas
seems a little crass
if you mask me

67146 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Biker, 1, #53 of 1641 🔗

Our new Rabbie Burns.

67204 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Mr Dee, 28, #54 of 1641 🔗

my love is like a red red rose
she wears a mask everywhere she goes
so i finished with her because i can’t be doing with it

67501 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Biker, 2, #55 of 1641 🔗

Echoes of Ivor Cutler

http://www.ivorcutler.org/

67133 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 15, #56 of 1641 🔗

The Scaremonger-in-Chief warns business of ‘second wave’ – FT and others. Last week it was ‘everybody back to work’. What’s going on?

67139 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bugle, 4, #57 of 1641 🔗

Yet more disinformation, aimed at hiding the truth.

67154 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bugle, 24, #58 of 1641 🔗

I have been saying for some time, he is mentally unfit to continue in this job. It is a dereliction of duty that the rest of the Cabinet, the 1922, and the Conservative party are allowing him to continue. Note also he says this today when the WHO appear to be changing stance – again – on whether there can/will be a second wave.

67219 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #59 of 1641 🔗

We need an international people’s trial over this. To the highest standards, surpassing their system, outside of their courts. The people of the world simply act responsibly together and put the main protangonists on trial.

67275 ▶▶▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to Basics, 5, #60 of 1641 🔗

I don’t know about an international trial but, if anybody was prepared to mount a legal challenge centred on the argument that the current system has forfeited its legitimacy, I think there’s a good chance the British courts would order a constitutional overhaul – there are a few obvious changes which could transform the current system and would be very hard to argue against: An Age of Misrule .

68151 ▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Malcolm Ramsay, #61 of 1641 🔗

Simon Dolan did and it was thrown out, now going to appeal

68388 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to sam, #62 of 1641 🔗

Well, it’s likely that any constitutional challenge would fail in the High Court (because it’s only the Supreme Court that has the authority to make that kind of ruling). But I don’t think Simon Dolan was challenging the underlying legitimacy of the system as it’s currently constituted; my impression is he was claiming the government had acted outside the existing rules (though I haven’t looked in detail at his arguments). Even if he wins at appeal, all it will mean is that Parliament will vote through redrafted legislation that plugs the gaps – it won’t establish a principle that governments can’t make unreasonable laws.

67261 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #63 of 1641 🔗

Note also he says this today when the WHO appear to be changing stance – again – on whether there can/will be a second wave.

I missed this bit of news – are the WHO now saying there’s going to be a second wave, when previously they didn’t – or is it the other way round?

67323 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Drawde927, 1, #64 of 1641 🔗

Ewan Duffy posted this on the previous thread (about 3 hrs ago):

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0728/1155918-coronavirus-global/

67355 ▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #65 of 1641 🔗

Thanks. There does seem to be some sense in this statement (I always assumed the “wave” thing was based on comparison with the 1918/19 Spanish flu, where the waves were actually different viruses, or the same one mutated – not resurgences), less so in how the world is responding to it.

It’s crazy how, worldwide, both governments and media sources seem almost desperate to panic over “surges” in cases, which are usually more down to increased testing than anything else. There is no attempt to provide context, reassure people, or do anything constructive – it’s as if society wants to stay in a state of fear for as long as possible.

67368 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Drawde927, 6, #66 of 1641 🔗

That’s the plan!

67435 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Drawde927, 2, #67 of 1641 🔗

I think society has broken down into individual madness. Specifically large numbers of unthinking proles went mad together and then ‘individualised’ as society imploded, but still haven’t regained their wits.

67561 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 2, #68 of 1641 🔗

The programming was very skillful, and based largely on ‘fear of death’. Not an easy task to repair them.

68150 ▶▶ sam, replying to Bugle, #70 of 1641 🔗

its a psy op

67143 Simon Dutton, replying to Simon Dutton, 64, #71 of 1641 🔗

Apropos missing jewellery after a death in an NHS hospital: when my mother died and her effects were returned to me, her money and gold wedding ring were missing, likewise a duck-down pillow I had given her. I informed the administrator that she had until 5 p.m. to find the ring, after which I would call the police.

Surprise surprise, the ring turned up.

Reason #649 why I did not clap for the “angels” of the NHS.

67706 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Simon Dutton, 2, #72 of 1641 🔗

Yes, when I read that bit my assumption was that it had been nicked

67144 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 29, #73 of 1641 🔗

When is the pandemic over? It was easier in the days of epidemic or pandemic flu and no mass testing. When the excess death was back to normal everything was over. Mass testing now is finding cases, asymptomatic, old cases and false positives but are they dying? Obviously not according to total death data. But not with Covid-19 which is like Hotel California ‘You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.’ below quoting Michael Levitt’s tweet
Retweet to focus. Is there a way to determine ‘when it is over’ other than by excess death dropping back to normal? This is done with flu every year. Large-scale PCR testing for Influenza virus RNA would lead to much higher deaths ‘WITH flu’. Can co-morbidity be ignored? Help me! “The total excess death in Europe in 2020 has not changed for 9 weeks. Still the number is large with 175,000 COVID season deaths since 1 March. This is equivalent to about 25 days of natural death (50,000 natural deaths/week in Europe). It is the burden of death of COVID19. “It turns out that reported COVID19 deaths in Europe did not stop when excess deaths did. The additional 16,600 reported deaths (9.4%) since 24 May are not excess deaths. Some of those who died of COVID may have been close to natural death & cannot die again.

67201 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 28, #74 of 1641 🔗

I think we have to assume that those in control do not want it to be over

67243 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Julian, 12, #75 of 1641 🔗

Yes, one feels that this must be rather how German generals (and the boss himself) must have felt towards the end of WW2. They were in a terrible predicament and causing dreadful national suffering and destruction by prolonging the war, but the thought of all those trials coming along afterwards meant that they could not surrender and limit the damage!

67271 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to IanE, 13, #76 of 1641 🔗

I think this is more like WWI, where there was one big stalemate from which no one wanted to back down and which just went on destroying lives pointlessly.

67278 ▶▶▶▶▶ Malcolm Ramsay, replying to stewart, 2, #77 of 1641 🔗

“like WWI, where there was one big stalemate from which no one wanted to back down”

Until the 1918 pandemic shook them all up!

67653 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to stewart, 1, #78 of 1641 🔗

I think you have it there Stewart.
O level History C1970 ‘outline the war aims of the major powers in WW1.’
France-don’t lose
Germany-don’t lose
Britain-don’t lose
Russia-don’t lose.

68152 ▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to stewart, #79 of 1641 🔗

more like 1917 in Russia

67674 ▶▶▶ goldhoarder, replying to Julian, 1, #80 of 1641 🔗

Yes. This has to be faced.

67399 ▶▶ ted, replying to swedenborg, 11, #81 of 1641 🔗

Yes, the pandemic is a global outbreak of deadly policy making, a very very stupid media culture, coupled with the industrialization of PCR testing capabilities. There is indeed no exit from this mess until that sad day when it is clear that these fools (in and out of government) have torn the entire social fabric of countless societies to shreds and all kinds of other deaths will dwarf those attributed falsely to c19. I am thinking of the decades long societal breakdowns in post-soviet states after 1990 and the unprecedented increases in suicide and alcohol related deaths. Depressing, yes. But at this point I see no other route but through it.

67439 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to swedenborg, 19, #82 of 1641 🔗

In my view PCR testing is a very useful powerful tool, when I was working in arable agriculture we used to use it but you had to use it in conjunction with professional assessment of the symptoms and the history. If you simply rely on the test it becomes the master rather than the servant.
That is what seems to have happened with Covid and the testing system has become a monster driving this nightmare along. As you say if we took this approach to outbreaks of normal flu or the common cold we would be eternally locked down. Nobody in Government seems to have the brains and the bravery to think this through, stand up and challenge what is going on.

67145 Cristi.Neagu, 18, #83 of 1641 🔗

Those videos are scary… not only what they say, but the fact that they were completely banned. This fascistic social media needs to be brought down.

67147 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #84 of 1641 🔗

A bit off topic I know but I’d like to ask a question. It’s at the end in bold.

This doesn’t bode well:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-defence-teams-up-with-world-leading-uk-space-company-to-secure-next-generation-of-military-communications

Wasn’t Skynet the system of computers and machines that went anti-human in Terminator? Yes it was and the company was Cyberdyne.

This now has me worried, there really is a company called Cyberdyne that does a robot suit that is called HAL (the psychotic computer from 2001).

This is getting too freaky:

https://www.cyberdyne.jp/english/products/HAL/index.html HAL [Hybrid Assistive Limb] is the world‘s first*1 cyborg-type robot, by which a wearer‘s bodily functions can be improved, supported and enhanced.

What is it with all these reports about space defence at the moment?

Found Ronald Reagan’s speech, there is a video clip on here if you scroll down far enough, it’s below the one with Bill Clinton saying the same. Apparently Reagan brought the subject up a few times in his Presidency:

https://fightingmonarch.com/2020/04/23/project-blue-beam-ufos-nwo/
and
https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/exopolitica/exopolitics_reagan03.htm

Assisted by maybe:

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_bluebeam04.htm

So can someone tell me a re we being prime for something or am I now too paranoid?

67280 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #85 of 1641 🔗

Maybe it’s a case of life imitating art? So, the company is Cyberdyne because of Terminator & Hal because of Space Odyssy. Not saying it’s not freaky, as I am definite with Will Smith’s character from I, Robot.

67346 ▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #86 of 1641 🔗

And there was also this:

“The U.S. Army has signed a contract to study and exploit materials from unidentified flying objects. It intends to use what it learns in order to develop new weapons platforms.

I can confirm that at least some of the source material was retrieved from crash remnants or materials sourced from UFOs.”

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/us-army-signs-contract-to-study-ufo-material-and-make-better-weapons

And this….

“The Pentagon recently confirmed and officially released three UFO sightings caught on camera. These videos show Navy pilots interacting with what the Department of Defense called unidentified aerial phenomena.”

https://cryptidlab.com/ufo-sightings-confirmed-pentagon/

67354 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #87 of 1641 🔗

Don’t forget that even business owners have a sense of humour.

67477 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #88 of 1641 🔗

Got a couple of answers from the son and a friend:

Son – At least we know how to kill the terminator knife to back of neck Me – does this work for Gates, Handjobs and Boris?

Friend – https://medium.com/skynetproject/skynet-open-network-an-integrated-solution-for-large-scale-intelligent-iot-interconnection-1961edbbb7b8

67683 ▶▶ goldhoarder, replying to Awkward Git, #89 of 1641 🔗
67151 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #90 of 1641 🔗

We need to organize better.
Ideally internationally.
For a start, we need a symbol, like a uniform badge and/or mask (where inevitable) to wear and thereby signal our grown-up and scientifically supported dissent!

67273 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Jay Berger, #91 of 1641 🔗

Doctors are trying to coalesce around acu 2020

67574 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #92 of 1641 🔗

Don’t like the sound of ‘inevitable’. However …

comment image

68181 ▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to Jay Berger, #93 of 1641 🔗

Something based on a Swedish flag perhaps?

67155 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 17, #94 of 1641 🔗

Thanks again for all the useful information and links. Not sure about this though:

Although bear in mind that some mask Nazis are so deranged they may just go completely nuts if they see you not wearing one in public. In San Diego, a man having a picnic with his wife in a public park was maced by a woman for not covering his face.

A lot of people are really nervous about taking a stand against masks and many, including me, don’t want to wear a lanyard to label themselves. Do we really need US-style fear-mongering and do we want to give the mask Nazis ideas?

Please also bear in mind that when people wear masks you can’t gauge their expressions. That is why ‘they’ want us in them. The wearer looks hostile or scared (possibly true anyway). It is very unlikely that we would get anything more than the odd comment. Don’t let scare stories put us off. If someone objects, don’t tell them anything and calmly invite them to keep their distance.

67549 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #95 of 1641 🔗

Agree.

68049 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #96 of 1641 🔗

In many US states, the woman who maced people would be ‘filled with lead’. Probably sensible of her to do this in California.

take a deep breath and try it
If you are exempt you don’t have to wear one
Some shops do not ask at all

67159 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 7, #98 of 1641 🔗

I get a feeling that the BBC is trying to down play the ‘cat story’ because they don’t want to incite a full blown covid cat cull…

67182 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to T. Prince, #99 of 1641 🔗

Give it two weeks for this story to mutate, the we’ll all see what it’s about.

67225 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 1, #100 of 1641 🔗

… Ooh lizards can pass it on do you think? Should I flush my iguana?

67377 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Basics, 2, #101 of 1641 🔗

Oh NO! So David Icke and me were both right about the lizards!

67380 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Basics, 2, #102 of 1641 🔗

Our lizard overlords have ensured that they are immune to the illness 😉

67183 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to T. Prince, 2, #103 of 1641 🔗

OH goodness, don’t tell my Mum she’ll be first in line for the cat killing.

67216 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to T. Prince, 1, #104 of 1641 🔗

It’s a dead cat story…

67222 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, #105 of 1641 🔗

Handy, because we are all waiting for the dead cat bounce.

67348 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #106 of 1641 🔗

If you put the cat in a box with deadly covid will it be both alive and dead at the same time? Can PHE count it regardless?

67384 ▶▶▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to Rick, 2, #107 of 1641 🔗

They probably already have!

67237 ▶▶ IanE, replying to T. Prince, 7, #108 of 1641 🔗

Oh dear, first an emergency, then a crisis, and now we have a CATastrophe!

67276 ▶▶ Squire Western, replying to T. Prince, 5, #109 of 1641 🔗

My dog supports a cat cull.

67284 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to T. Prince, 4, #110 of 1641 🔗

My friend really dislikes cats (we have 4!) and has already put on FB this morning that cats shouldn’t be let out to spread the virus! I have to say she was one of the first to isolate, but after 12 weeks of doing that, she was going stir-crazy, so has relaxed somewhat – until now …

67340 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 4, #111 of 1641 🔗

Facebook is poisonous and so are people like your ‘friend’. Friend?

67423 ▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, #112 of 1641 🔗

It’s been said before, weeks ago, nothing happened.

67160 mjr, replying to mjr, 13, #113 of 1641 🔗

Reposting my post from yesterday’s (as only posted an hour or so again) as people may have missed it and it is a good insight into the Quango/trust/ government culture

I have just been listening to The Great Post Office Trial on BBC Sounds. This covers the huge scandal over the last 20 years where issues in the Post Office counters Horizon computer system led the Post office to criminalise and bankrupt 100s of innocent sub postmasters. At the time Post office was government owned. Worth listening as it shows how such operations lie. hide and obfuscate – these being the same sort of operations and people as NHS trusts and other Quangos.
Interesting to note that the Chief Executive for much of this period (from 2012 to 2019) was Paula Vennells . She left Post office when the sh*t finally hit the fan and walked into the posts of Chair of Imperial College Healthcare Trust and as Cabinet Office board member. And unbelievably she was awarded a CBE for services to the Post Office.
Do you see a pattern here?. The merry go round of people moving from Board to Trust to Quango hiding their errors. Then you can understand how the SAGE, PHE, hospital trusts and government collectively can leave us in such a dire situation. Enjoy…..

67289 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to mjr, 8, #114 of 1641 🔗

Check out Simon Steven’s at PHE. He was so bad at Mid Yorkshire Hospital Trust that he was rapidly moved on. But lo and behold, popped up at PHE & look how that has gone!

68157 ▶▶ sam, replying to mjr, #115 of 1641 🔗

she did her job, get rid of small businesses running post office franchises

67161 BTLnewbie, replying to BTLnewbie, 33, #116 of 1641 🔗

At last, some good news – I have access to Boris’s private office and have just glimpsed the draft of his speech to the nation tonight. Let me share it with you:

Well folks, we did it! We beat the virus!

I stand before you today, armed with the latest figures from our world-beating Office of National Statistics, and can tell you that we are beating Death itself!  For the fifth week in a row, fewer people have died under my administration than the average over the past 5 years.

Furthermore (although every one of the 10,000 deaths each week is a tragic loss for those involved), I can tell you that, last week, only 1 in every 30 of those deaths is associated with Covid19. We will now focus our attention, and the attention of our great NHS, on the causes of the other 29.

So I declare today 28 th July, VC Day, a public holiday to celebrate our great Victory over Corona.

For every death associated with Covid since March, we will have spent £6m of your money, and we now urge you, the great British public, to do your bit to get your money back by earning and spending with renewed vigour.

From this day forward, it will be a crime to wear a mask in public, as we do not wish to put fear into the minds of those who have been fearful. It will be a crime to work from home, for those who have an office to travel to. It will be a crime for schools and universities not to open their doors fully, to all students. It will be a crime for retailers and local authorities to display any signs of social distancing in shops and public areas.

I expect to see pubs and restaurants, sports stadia and places of worship, full of a public who are rejoicing in the knowledge of this great victory.   I have agreed with our friends in Europe that you will be able to go on holiday, without let or hindrance, and the showing of a British passport will spare you from any requirement to abide by any local restrictions that remain in their countries.

I had hoped that we could put the last few months behind us, and travel forward together, hand in hand, but I feel that sacrifices have to be made on the altar of public opinion. I tell you that today, I am standing down as Prime Minister and have asked Lord Sumption to form an interim administration. I have asked my close colleagues Matt Hancock and Dominic Cummings, as a reward for their endeavours during the crisis, to spend 10 years on St Helena setting up a home for distressed politicians, and I have requested my dear friends Nicola Sturgeon and Mark Drakeford to join them there.

So it’s goodnight from me, and good luck to the rest of you!

Boris

67184 ▶▶ Kathryn, replying to BTLnewbie, 6, #117 of 1641 🔗

If only!!

67187 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to BTLnewbie, 14, #118 of 1641 🔗

I also note that Covid hospital cases are way down
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/covid-19-uk-hospital-admissions/
It does make you wonder what more has to be done to draw all this nonsense to a halt? It really has become like a never ending medieval witch hunt.

67238 ▶▶▶ Richard, replying to Steve Martindale, 13, #119 of 1641 🔗

Exactly – was with a medical professional at the weekend – firstly no worries about social distancing – handshake proffered straight as out of car ! Then talking to them and said the been told local hospital here (large regional city hadn’t had anyone for five weeks in Covid ward) – not surprised at all and said pretty much true in London as well. It has gone and yet the muzzling madness continues. To all those here nervous about resisting – keep going and be strong – it’s hard but really important – am not without nerves myself when I go into places but people soon back off.

67381 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Richard, 14, #120 of 1641 🔗

Thanks, this is heartening. Here’s my twopence worth:

T’other half and I are in a community group and we’ve had a meeting with someone from a local council to discuss some local infrastructure issues (I’m being deliberately vague as I don’t want to get anyone ‘done’) The meeting was outside but there’s one large, indoor area where people are theoretically supposed to muzzle up. It was showery.

All of our group are old, some quite doddery and there were 7 of us including the middle-aged guest. At least two of us, including my husband are ‘extremely vulnerable’. Only one person produced a mask and I told him that, as a doctor, my advice was to leave it off. I’m not a doctor. Anyway, straight off it went!

During the meeting we were in and out of the indoor bit as the showers came and went. Nobody put a mask on at any point even though there was a man and 2 little boys hanging around with muzzles on-off-on-off, pulling them about, fingering them etc.who didn’t seem in the slightest bothered about us.

There was also a marked increase within our group in scepticism about the Government’s motives and the coming appalling economic crisis. The council person told us her husband had been furloughed and his hours have been cut in half. ‘Loads of redundancies in the National Parks.

I had been quite anxious about both this meeting and my train trip tomorrow for a music lesson. Every night now I wake up several times and I’m aware my mind is racing, even in my sleep. Bad as this is, I am now convinced that I would be in an even worse state if I were a zombie. You can (or could before the sodding muzzles) see it in their faces. On some level, I swear they know that they are being had. As for our group, it was as if we, aided by the sensible attitude of the professional, were able to give the others ‘permission’ to be normal and it worked – on this occasion at least!

Anyway, more good news: Walking home, apart from 2 dick-heads in their twenties walking along in big masks (one with a hoody) who obviously thought they looked really cool, we saw no more muzzles. There was a huge crowd of young folk outside a cafe all crammed round a small table, having a great time. Even better, we went in the local shop for a bottle of plonk. The owner is a moron (fortunately absent) but the woman on duty didn’t blink an eyelid when we went in without muzzles, closely followed by a young bloke, similarly not buying in to the crap. Phew!

67209 ▶▶ Edna, replying to BTLnewbie, 2, #121 of 1641 🔗

Brilliant!!

67233 ▶▶ IanE, replying to BTLnewbie, 3, #122 of 1641 🔗

And, then, you woke up?!

67424 ▶▶ annie, replying to BTLnewbie, #123 of 1641 🔗

We wish.

67162 mjr, replying to mjr, 5, #124 of 1641 🔗

Again posted yesterday by Steven Farmer but everyone needs to see it as it explains where government policy has come from
https://youtu.be/FwvZql6RToE

67196 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to mjr, #125 of 1641 🔗

He he, it’s a goodun and so true

67163 kf99, 8, #126 of 1641 🔗

Neil Oliver on masks. “The inhumanity starts when you can’t see someone’s face”. Wonderful stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk0u0XFki5g&start=900

67166 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #127 of 1641 🔗

Just got a text from my doctor’s surgery, inviting me, if I qualify (that is, have I had CV or any of the symptoms in the last 15 days) to join the following clinical trial:

https://www.principletrial.org/

Has anyone been sent this?

67171 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #128 of 1641 🔗

I was invited to do something similar. Avoid.

67185 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bugle, 9, #129 of 1641 🔗

I avoid anything generally that requires any of my details – NHS database, the finger-print access to library (was suggested for my kids when they were at primary school, and we were the only parents to object). The less the ‘powers that be’ know the better!

67229 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #130 of 1641 🔗

Going on holiday – the quarantine trap, meaning forced quarantine and tested on the 8th day – therefore going on holiday they take your dna.

We need a trial holding to have these criminals shown for what they are.

67236 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Basics, 2, #131 of 1641 🔗

Plus there is no way to prove that the testing kits are not contaminated. There is no chain of evidence for the person being tested.

67254 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Basics, 7, #132 of 1641 🔗

I’ve just had a letter from the health centre saying that “In line with government recommendations all patients over the age of 45 should have had a blood pressure recorded within the last 5 years.” I wondered if they would seize this opportunity to test me for the virus. Shan’t go, anyway, as they also say, “Please ensure that you are wearing a face mask.” Extraordinary, that after four months of the health centre doors being barred to sick people, lest they infect, potential germ-carriers are being chased up for unnecessary close contact.

67265 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian Swanson, 6, #133 of 1641 🔗

A study into seeing the blood pressure rise from mask wearing perhaps. It’s unforgivable how these GP practises have wimped out. I’d be temped to go and give them a word or three. Better you do as you plan Gillian!

68159 ▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #134 of 1641 🔗

we also objected to fingerprinting of children for the school library and canteen

67193 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #135 of 1641 🔗

Don’t do it. I’ve uploaded a link in my previous comment. Even if you had the virus the dead Covid cells are still detectable in a test.

67405 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #136 of 1641 🔗

They’re not tests that’s why. What are claimed to be tests are properly used for replicating large numbers of DNA strands for experimentation. These viral fragments (remembering that a virus is merely a non-living fragment of genetic material anyway) are RNA, which means they first need converting into DNA, and then are replicated en masse, conceivably introducing errors, and that is how they claim that someone is infected. All that from conceivably just one random fragment – I’ve seen nothing to suggest that they have the faintest idea how much is within the person in question. Never mind that most are not actually ill, and so hardly qualify as being ‘infected’ in the conventional sense.

I’m sure that either on here or on one of the linked articles (the latter I believe) it was stated that the so-called tests come with a disclaimer: ‘Not to be used for diagnosis of Covid-19’ or something to that effect – so why is that exactly what they’re doing?

67202 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #137 of 1641 🔗

Mrs 2-6 got one, part of a “randomised” serology testing project. Straight in the bin.

68158 ▶▶ sam, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #139 of 1641 🔗

I did too
Was thinking of getting a swab to send for analysis (to see if there’s anything untoward in it) or swabbing a pinapple and seeing what they say!!
Or just not sending the swab back and seeing if they say I’m positive anyway!

67168 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, #140 of 1641 🔗

Even a blind man can see what’s going on:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53564949

67207 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, #141 of 1641 🔗

Phew I just couldn’t click on that for a while thinking it WAS going to be something about pets and covid, I just couldn’t go there, thank goodness its about a famous dissenter speaking out against the cult of covid.

67208 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Sam Vimes, #142 of 1641 🔗

Good on him … Beautiful voice,

67395 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #143 of 1641 🔗

But what does this mean???

Bocelli has since claimed his comments were “misunderstood”, adding that his foundation has helped many people who have had the virus.

67170 Adam, replying to Adam, 3, #144 of 1641 🔗

Would not be in the least bit surprised if there are soon reports of an increase in people asking vets for their pets to be euthanized, DIY jobs or of pets being abandoned.

67181 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Adam, #145 of 1641 🔗

That happened at the beginning with the mythical Hong Kong dog … plus dogs homes being going bust, so they’ve been PTS en masse as they couldn’t rehome and had run out of money.

67282 ▶▶ Emma, replying to Adam, 6, #146 of 1641 🔗

Another aspect of this whole shitshow is the price gouging going on with puppies. A year ago I got a whippet bitch, she cost £700. Now if you go online, people are selling them for £2,500 – £3,000. People seem to be buying puppies while furloughed or working from home. No doubt many of these poor animals will end up in shelters when owners return to work, or lose their jobs.

67563 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Emma, 2, #147 of 1641 🔗

I have horses, fortunate that I have a bit of land, so I don’t pay livery, just upkeep, even so it’s a ridiculously expensive pursuit, with insurance, feed, vet, farrier, teeth, jabs, wormers, injuries, bust fences and it goes on and on and on! Already hearing reports of dumped horses, even through furlough, that 20% was the luxury hobby portion of people’s wages. We already had a horse welfare crisis before all this started, so chances are that beloved gee gee ends up on a meat lorry to France. Even the idiots saying it was good that horse racing was suspended have no idea how ruthless that ‘sport’ is, if horses aren’t making money, there’s no sentiment involved, they are surplus to requirments, there’s no golden retirement, it’s dog food, that’s it.

As for dogs, we lost our beagle recently, that’s the third pedigree to cancer, I’d already decided I’m never buying a pedigree pup ever again, it was already a racket before this, but I dread to think of the welfare crisis coming.

67173 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 1, #148 of 1641 🔗

Then they came for – my cat.

67179 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bugle, 10, #149 of 1641 🔗

Anyone comes for my cat, they’ll have to fight me first!

67221 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to BecJT, 22, #150 of 1641 🔗

Quite!

I believe that the government is now exceeding any previously existing level of public goodwill and is (finally) heading for very big trouble. Nearly a million have already become unemployed due to their policies, millions of actual or potential holidays are being disrupted at massive personal cost (both financial and mental) and the three stages of furlough wind-down are now coming towards us very soon with millions to become unemployed.

Well, de Pfeffel, you are, I believe, about to discover that there is a limit to how far people will be pushed!

67224 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to IanE, 6, #151 of 1641 🔗

I do hope your last sentence comes true! Let the masses rise!

67226 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to IanE, 7, #152 of 1641 🔗

I desperately want to believe that last sentence…

67546 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to IanE, #153 of 1641 🔗

I hope to God you are right!

67777 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to IanE, 1, #154 of 1641 🔗

If we are in the middle of a deadly pandemic with large numbers dying, how do you explain the increase in unemployment. If workers were dying in large numbers organisations would not need to make staff redundant if staff were no longer needed and I have seen no instances of job vacancies being created due to having to replace dead staff. The black death created a labour shortage.

67223 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to BecJT, 4, #155 of 1641 🔗

Bec, did you see the clip posted by MiriamW above of the woman spraying mace in the faces of an unmasked couple having a picnic in a park? If they are prepared to brazenly do this to other human beings in full view of witnesses then I have no doubt that they honestly believe that any (violent) action is justified in the fight to conquer this deadly disease. Best keep your cat in lockdown for a while…..

67413 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to T. Prince, 6, #156 of 1641 🔗

Sorry for the language, but I hope the bitch gets done for aggravated assault – I can’t see what else that would qualify as.

67495 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #157 of 1641 🔗

Please note I was actually quoting Toby and I don’t think that he should have included it!

67828 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #158 of 1641 🔗

No need to apologize- my thoughts were far worse

67415 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to T. Prince, #159 of 1641 🔗

No T.Prince. Please read my post again.

Anyway, let me clarify that I was taking Toby to task for posting that because I thought it was fear-mongering!!

67830 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #160 of 1641 🔗

Miriam, I didn’t see it that way, it just shows what we’re up against….

67188 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bugle, 5, #161 of 1641 🔗

I can see this in a few weeks time, dogs aren’t allowed to be walked outdoors, and cats have to remain in the house. Then there will be the Army going round shooting cats and dog that are outdoors like in China.

67194 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, #162 of 1641 🔗

Pets aren’t sustainable, they eat too much meat and cats kill birds and keeping a pet is Crule 🙁
Is how it might go.
I hope not.

67175 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 57, #163 of 1641 🔗

That poor, poor woman not being able to see her daughter, and the poor lady with cancer, imagine not being able to hug your mum at the end of your life? I have honestly just sat and cried my eyes out. What are we doing? It’s just so cruel.

I dread of think of the elderly, isolated people all around the country, sinking into to despair, cut off from everything that gives comfort and meaning.

What has continued to shock me through all this, is just how self-centred people are, how much empathy they lack, it’s a total failure of imagination about other people, what’s wrong with them???

I keep being told I’m ‘selfish’ and when I say, ‘in what ways have I ever made this about me? When have I done anything but point out what this is doing to others?’ I get no answer.

And having lost one dog to cancer a couple of weeks ago, and she was terrified of the vet’s PPE, I just dropped my other dog at the vet for some xrays (wonky elbows) and she was shaking with fear as I handed her over, as I’m not allowed to go in with her. Drove home feeling like a shit, and now waiting anxiously to go and fetch her. It can’t just be me who thinks in those situations, we are doing this to humans, to little old ladies, and children, and really scared and poorly people. It’s unconscionable, it truly is.

The only scrap of comfort is I never signed up to this, not once, not any of it, and come the reckoning at least my conscience will be clear, but it’s not enough really, I wish we could do more to force this to an end, but I fear we’ve got more of this madness to come. I’m starting to think those that are cheering it on are sociopaths or narcissists.

67186 ▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to BecJT, 3, #164 of 1641 🔗

Why did the vet need to wear PPE in order to put down your dog?

67192 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Martin Spencer, 16, #165 of 1641 🔗

Because we opted for home euthanasia as the other option was in a carpark, and she was so sick with very rapidly degranulating mast cell cancer, I couldn’t do it to her, so the vet had to come in the house. I said we didn’t care about all that, but the vet very much did, and the dog was very scared because she had shiny visor, mask, gloves, apron and overshoes. It was very unpleasant, because the dog was so scared, she screamed at the sedation, the vet jumped and dropped the needle and we had to do it twice, the poor dog was really, really, really scared.

67198 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BecJT, 14, #166 of 1641 🔗

Reading this kills me. A stone in my chest.

67206 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Two-Six, 22, #167 of 1641 🔗

I know, all round was very upsetting and made me very angry, the vet was actually a very nice person, clearly just following company policy, but the dog didn’t know that. And the worst of it is, we are doing this to people too. Like the lady in today’s updates. I honestly sometimes feel like I hate people, I truly do, people have no heart.

67739 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to BecJT, 2, #168 of 1641 🔗

What normal human being could conceive, and tell you, that a carpark is a suitable place to put a dog down????

67400 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Martin Spencer, 4, #169 of 1641 🔗

It’s generally referred to as stupidity.

Otherwise known as “regulations”. Probably a condition of vets being allowed to reopen.

More thoughtless, nonsensical inhumanity.

67203 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 7, #170 of 1641 🔗

Agree BecJT. I cannot have enough contempt for anyone who not only imposes this onto their fellow citizens but then seeks to ignore it themselves (Ferguson) or worse, actively mocks these two cancer sufferers by their preposterous mutterings (Cummings and his Barnard Castle Defence).

67212 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 20, #171 of 1641 🔗

I agree, it’s contempt I’m feeling more than anger, although just had a good cry, and helpless is what I’m feeling now. I honestly don’t know what to do, I have my little rebellions, talk to people where I can, write to my MP, but it all feels a bit inadequate. I find it shocking we are a minority, that scares me about other people, it’s so obvious to me that this is just wrong, it worries me that that is an ‘outlier’ view.

67232 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 14, #172 of 1641 🔗

I think it is more common than you think, don’t despair. We need to stick together for each other, and chip away at the waverers, and the newly angered (had their holidays cancelled, cannot return to work and might now lose a ‘safe’ job). It’s good to talk, cry, scream whatever, rather than bottling inside!

67419 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #173 of 1641 🔗

I agree. I think there are many who spout all the right platitudes and maybe even do things which make them blend in with the sheep, but they do (or have done) things they’re not ‘allowed’ to do nevertheless. Eventually they’ll find even the token obvious compliance too ridiculous and dispense with that as well.

67538 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #174 of 1641 🔗

That’s true, you’re right. My brother came for a visit this weekend, he has a busy job in a treatment centre which is on an NHS site, he was quite chippy and defensive when he arrived (easy for me to say masks are bollocks, he’s been forced to wear one for the last three months) but he’s listening now. It’s unfortunate that most people aren’t prepared to listen until it starts hurting though, we’ve all been watching the pain hurtling down the tracks for months.

67260 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #175 of 1641 🔗

Calderwood

67418 ▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to BecJT, 19, #176 of 1641 🔗

I too found those accounts heart-rending. But what particularly got my goat was the hospice manager reprimanding the poor woman for having the temerity to want to spend time with her daughter in the last few hours of her life.

I don’t condone shaming of any sort. God knows there’s enough of that going on at the moment. But if anybody should be shamed it should be that particular jobsworth.

And yes, it is truly rich for us sceptics to be labelled ‘selfish’ when all Believers really want is for themselves to be saved at all costs. Then they express their humanity and commpassion for their fellow man through insults and violence against those holding a different view to them. Utter hypocrites.

67425 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Wickwar Bob, 7, #177 of 1641 🔗

That’s shy some of us HATE the NHS.

68164 ▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to annie, #178 of 1641 🔗

we ony use alternative therapists who actually care and know more than any doctor about healing

67688 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to BecJT, 1, #179 of 1641 🔗

I am so very sad to read all of this. My animals are the most important beings in my life and this would have broken my heart. It’s not in any way your fault Bec, far from it – the problem is that we have scientists running the country it seems, who completely lack human empathy and understanding. Science now appears to be God alongside the new worship of the NHS.It utterly appalls me.

68075 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to CarrieAH, 1, #180 of 1641 🔗

I saw the vet who owns/runs our local practice in our local corner shop a couple of weeks before muzzles were imposed, wearing a muzzle. I pretended not to recognise him. My conclusion was that he hadn’t the faintest ability to judge scientific evidence. But then I’ve always thought that vets are charlatans, shysters and snake-oil salesmen at the best of times.

68205 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 1, #181 of 1641 🔗

At our practice the owners and pets wait outside till a nappied vet comes out to collect the pet.
Whenever I go past I say loudly, ‘Funny, isn’t it, the vets are muzzled and the dogs aren’t.’
Just my grain of sand, as the Spanish say.

67711 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BecJT, #182 of 1641 🔗

Very sorry to hear what had happened. I don’t understand why vets have to wear PPE? Are they not aware that they cause distress to animals?

Most odd.

68162 ▶▶ sam, replying to BecJT, 1, #183 of 1641 🔗

I agree. They are purposely stripping away our humanity as they did under communism
Also don’t know why others won’t wake up
They have been trained not to think
Often think I’m living on the wrong planet
It would be nice if we could all physically meet somewhere

67190 Bella Donna, 1, #184 of 1641 🔗
67191 IanE, replying to IanE, 2, #185 of 1641 🔗

Hmm, missing valuable jewellery from deceased at care-homes. Fortunately we all know how perfect are the morals and behaviour of individuals working at such sites.

67210 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, 12, #186 of 1641 🔗

When i worked in the NHS, the staff on wards in hospitals were some of the worst people I have ever worked with. Uncaring, lazy, bullies, and arse licking backstabbers would be the best way I could describe them. It’s a joke how we are being led to believe they are all Saints!

67217 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to JohnB, 23, #187 of 1641 🔗

I’ve been very sick with a long running chronic condition (but was critical for a while), I have absolutely no illusions about the NHS, or the level of care and competence, never mind the arrogance of the medical establishment, and no clapping from me either. And for all their ‘we’ve been told not to talk’ an ethical whistleblower would have spoken up anyway, they all know, the fact they are keeping quiet tells us what their priorities are, and it’s not patients.

67345 ▶▶▶ Hoppity, replying to JohnB, 1, #188 of 1641 🔗

Yes.

67869 ▶▶▶ fiery, replying to JohnB, 1, #189 of 1641 🔗

I actually left the NHS for the same reasons you’ve pointed out. It was the worst job I ever had and I feel so much better now.

67235 ▶▶ Will, replying to IanE, 6, #190 of 1641 🔗

And the doctors who have been certifying deaths without anyone checking their homework #Don’tmentionShipman

67240 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Will, 3, #191 of 1641 🔗

I wonder how many wills have been changed over the last 5 months.

67732 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 3, #192 of 1641 🔗

Likely too that more people have opted out of the organ donation scheme..

67195 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #193 of 1641 🔗

Does the cat count as a COVID 19 case?

67197 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Steve Hayes, 39, #194 of 1641 🔗

Yes – 9 times

67199 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to mjr, 2, #195 of 1641 🔗

Nice one!

67267 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to mjr, 1, #196 of 1641 🔗

It wouldn’t surprise me

67200 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 14, #197 of 1641 🔗

Someone posted on here a couple of weeks back that their doctor asked if they wanted to take a COVID-19 test, but that the Doctor themselves said they personally had refused as it could affect getting insurance, mortgage, etc.

Based on this statement from the Doctor it seems to suggest that a DNA database is being made from the swabs and blood tests, and that it will be able to be used to analyse the DNA for hereditary diseases and mutations in the DNA.

I’m wondering if the purpose for this continued testing and the constant scaremongering meaning that eventually everyone is tested and that the objective is to create a global DNA database in this backdoor manner.

67215 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to JohnB, 5, #198 of 1641 🔗

That would not surprise me in the slightest. The police have been trying to get everyone on a DNA database for years now, and once on it, it is extremely difficult to get off it. They would certainly like to get all kids on a DNA database, so it can be sold to all manner of private entities (insurers etc). Now, let me see, I wonder who might be set to benefit from that, personally – current or former MP, upper chamber, civil servant….

67295 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to JohnB, 2, #199 of 1641 🔗

Only if it is nothing to do with the NHS, as in their IT skills are definitely not up to anything on that scale or even creating a UK database which would feed into something like that!

67342 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 2, #200 of 1641 🔗

Tell me about it, I was one of the original Electronic Patient Records workers, but that wasted £11bn looks tiny now!

67567 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, 2, #201 of 1641 🔗

This is not ridiculous to me at all. Knowing what we know about successive gvt.s and their lust for biometric ID schemes….

67728 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #202 of 1641 🔗

I would not be surprised – and will therefore refuse to take any test voluntarily…

We know they want an ‘AI’ world, where people are just numbers and where we are chipped and tracked – makes total sense (!) that they would want our DNA.. Probably an essential component of the covipass…

67211 Mark, replying to Mark, 2, #203 of 1641 🔗

Andrea Bocelli ‘humiliated’ by Italy’s Covid rules
What I find interesting is the implication here that Italy, unlike this country, actually has meaningful mainstream political dissent on the coronapanic:

Bocelli made the remarks at a conference in Italy’s Senate attended by opposition politicians including Matteo Salvini, leader of the far-right League party.
Mr Salvini has attacked the government of Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte over the handling of the health crisis in Italy .”

67218 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 9, #204 of 1641 🔗

Well, Mr. Starmer has attacked the government of Prime Minister Boris Johnson over the handling of the health crisis in the UK. He’s just completely missed the point and criticized the execution, not the strategy.

67227 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 11, #205 of 1641 🔗

Yes, I don’t count hysterical nonsense about the government not having panicked hard enough as meaningful dissent. More a confession of personal stupidity and complete unsuitability for office, by Starmer and the others taking that stance.

67361 ▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Mark, #206 of 1641 🔗

If things couldn’t get any more weird, Starmer – the Leader of the Labour Party which ostensibly represents the working-class – is a member of the billionaires and mega-corporations club the Trilateral Commission….if this whole covid farce is indeed the pretext for a WHO/UN/WEF re-engineering of the world, Starmer will be one of its biggest cheerleaders…

https://dorseteye.com/what-mystery-organisation-do-sir-keir-starmer-henry-kissinger-and-jeffrey-epstein-have-in-common/

67656 ▶▶▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to Humanity First, #207 of 1641 🔗

Oh dear God, just when you thought thing couldn’t get any weirder!

67230 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 4, #208 of 1641 🔗

I don’t know what Salvini has said, but Bocelli deserves credit for speaking out. Here in the UK we have Matt Le Tissier and Peter Ebdon who are both sceptics. Not aware of any others from sport and showbiz, here or in the US.

67252 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Julian, 3, #209 of 1641 🔗

6 useless and Pro lockdown etc. parties in Germany.
And the most useless and pathetic one is the so-called former liberal and pro business party, FDP.
RIP.

67262 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #210 of 1641 🔗

Are there actually any formally anti-lockdown parties in Europe? None in the UK, as far as I’m aware. So much for what we used to pretend were “liberals”. So much for what some used to think were anti-big government, anti-nanny state “conservatives”.

Politics dominated by a narrow groupthinking elite. Who knew,. eh?

67343 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 1, #211 of 1641 🔗

I had a quick look at the website of the new Italexit party, no mention of covid.

67374 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Mark, 1, #212 of 1641 🔗

The old Liberals (what little is left of them) are pretty critical of the measures, so you may be wrong about the UK not having any such parties. A shame they don’t have the support to show up anywhere but in Liverpool, Cornwall and London.
I like their current slogan: Real Liberals (not the LibDems) Fighting for Liberalism

Website: http://liberal.org.uk/

67581 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #213 of 1641 🔗

I think the real liberals can reasonably be dismissed as fringe here atm. Sad, because I’d back real liberals over the rest of the political party scum we have, if they weren’t just more lefties in drag, like the SDP and the LibDems they became.

68180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to Mark, 1, #214 of 1641 🔗

The Germans were setting up “widerstand 2020”, don’t know if it got anywhere though.

67259 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Julian, 3, #215 of 1641 🔗

Peter ebdon has gone up in my estimation. Complete opposite of golfer Lee Westwood who is to scared to fly (in a private jet) to America to play this week’s PGA tournament

67726 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #216 of 1641 🔗

John Cleese maybe? In a recent tweet he wrote ‘ Our Press are more concerned about their power than they are about informing us accurately and fairly about reality’


68026 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, #217 of 1641 🔗

A few actors have spoken out.

67269 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to matt, #218 of 1641 🔗

He’s a waste of space. He’s hoping to keep his head down until this blows over when he can jump out and become PM…

67213 Basics, 1, #219 of 1641 🔗

Yes to Newspeak section. Let’s have a good laugh at the tricks of propaganda to show contempt for the practices.

67214 Gerry Mandarin, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 4, #220 of 1641 🔗

News Speak.
We are reducing quarantine from 14 to 10 days. Thats almost a whole working week

67248 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 1, #221 of 1641 🔗

7 days, anyone?

67719 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 1, #222 of 1641 🔗

That’s the whole idea. People who work are more likely to depart for a holiday on a weekend (having finished work on Friday) and also to return on a weekend (so as to be back at work on Monday). 10 days quarantine = only one week off work, because the 10-day quarantine will be ‘bookended’ by weekends when no work will be missed…

67220 NickR, replying to NickR, 12, #223 of 1641 🔗

Just in case anyone missed it, here’s a link from the BBC in Nov 2018 about 50,000 excess deaths in 2017/18. Classic Overton Window stuff, in 2018 it was framed as an item of passing academic interest that 50,000 fellow Brits had just pegged it, today it’s Armageddon. An English teacher could construct an interesting comprehension class for year 7 kids (were they at school) asking pupils to ‘compare & contrast’ how 50,000 deaths are reported 2 years apart bringing in other information to support their argument.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-46399090

67321 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to NickR, 7, #224 of 1641 🔗

I’ve been telling friends and family this until I’m blue in the face! It does my head in that they just won’t think or listen to reason or, indeed, take any notice of the facts! The counter argument is that these 50,000 excess deaths were over the whole winter and not just a few months, it still doesn’t register that even if that is the case we didn’t shut down the economy and condemn loads of people and businesses to death, completely change the whole fabric of society or force people to wear an item of clothing. The lunatics are running the asylum and need to be deposed!

67328 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Moomin, 4, #225 of 1641 🔗

I posted a reply on the previous post but happy to repeat it.

I shared the BBC link with my mum last night, she is, I think a sceptic but doesn’t like to rock the boat and likes a quiet life.

Her reply was, hmm, 50k, that’s a lot. I don’t remember making a big fuss about it in 2018, so why all the fuss now?

67385 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to stefarm, 2, #226 of 1641 🔗

Taking into account that globally over the course of a year we can expect about 60 million people to die from all causes, the several hundred thousand from this pathetic virus is hardly worth even considering (especially when the death toll in two of the highest at least, the UK and USA, have been grossly inflated).

67341 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Moomin, 1, #227 of 1641 🔗

A few months? Has this not gone on a few months now?

67378 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Moomin, 2, #228 of 1641 🔗

Winter is only a few months last time I checked 😁

67648 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Moomin, 4, #229 of 1641 🔗

It’s horrible to know that friends and family you’ve always given the benefit of the doubt to are in fact the muppets you’ve always suspected they were.

68022 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, #230 of 1641 🔗

Very true. Have you met my brother ? 🙂

67558 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to NickR, #231 of 1641 🔗

I think they knew this argument would be made (as it is the most recent incidence of high flu mortality and notable ‘overwhelming’ of NHS). And that is the reason they have been inflating the death figures. They need deaths to be at least that of 2017/18 (so 50k) and preferably more to make covid worse, before they start to let them subside. They are nearly there. Let’s see what happens.

67228 swedenborg, 3, #232 of 1641 🔗

In preparation for next hysteria just published 27th July(to replace the current one?)
https://www.cell.com/cell-host-microbe/fulltext/S1931-3128(20)30402-9?dgcid=raven_jbs_aip_email
“Thus, European swine populations represent reservoirs for emerging IAV strains with zoonotic and, possibly, pre-pandemic potential.

67231 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #233 of 1641 🔗

Again from the IMF.

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2020/06/the-international-order-post-covid19-dabla.htm

Third, pandemics, like climate hazards, are a harsh reminder of the relevance of natural phenomena and the need for ensuring long-term resilience . Climate action and sustainability can gain renewed priority as fiscal stimulus packages are deployed to jump-start the economic recovery. Investments in climate-resilient infrastructure and the transition to a lower-carbon future can drive significant near-term job creation and capital formation while increasing economic and environmental resilience. These investments could include building renewable-energy infrastructure and more resilient roads and structures, expanding the capacity of the power grid, retrofitting buildings, and developing and deploying technologies to decarbonize heavy industries. Moving toward a lower-carbon economy is daunting but imperative, and we must rise to this challenge collectively.
The post–COVID-19 order will be created. But the problems thrown into sharp relief by the crisis remain. Poverty, rampant inequality, declining biodiversity, environmental degradation, and scarcity of clean water still need to be tackled. So do the long-standing inequities in our societies. How we protect and lift our most vulnerable will be a test of our humanity.
There could be a silver lining. We have seen mobilization of resources for public purposes on a scale witnessed only in times of war. But this current war is being waged against a common enemy. The solidarity accumulated in times of global lockdown and disease could be a valuable foundation on which to build.

Sounds like another step towards Agenda21/2030 to me.

67234 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #234 of 1641 🔗

IMF also blackmailed Belarus to enforce lock down but wisely rejected.

68015 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to swedenborg, #235 of 1641 🔗

I heard it was a large bribe to lockdown.

67241 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #236 of 1641 🔗

But this current war is being waged against a common enemy. The solidarity accumulated in times of global lockdown and disease could be a valuable foundation on which to build.

Vomit inducing!

67257 ▶▶▶ Richard O, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #237 of 1641 🔗

And also a clear admission of intent. The “common enemy” that the war is being waged against is us, and the “solidarity” is amongst the governments and corporations that are in lockstep perpetrating one of the greatest crimes in history.

67333 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Richard O, #238 of 1641 🔗

Yes. I’d sussed that the common enemy is the general population!

67350 ▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Richard O, #239 of 1641 🔗

Seems more and more like governments are acting as the agents/proxies of corporations.

67803 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Humanity First, 1, #240 of 1641 🔗

Our Government, and most other Governments, are OWNED by the Corporatocracy. Governments work for THEIR interests, not ours. (For example, the armaments industry requires wars for its very existence. Governments therefore have to engineer wars by creating regular false flag events.) We are just serfs, and the current Agenda is designed to make our serfdom complete, before the serfs finally wake up to how the world is run and demand change.

68079 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Gracie Knoll, #241 of 1641 🔗

Meh.

67617 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #242 of 1641 🔗

I think the climate alarmists are FOMOing.

67239 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #243 of 1641 🔗

Interesting political shenanegans afoot:

Michael Gove declares truce with Nicola Sturgeon as he discloses plan for joint Covid statement Downing Street has agreed a new strategy to counter Ms Sturgeon’s surging approval ratings and rising support for separation.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/28/michael-gove-declares-truce-nicola-sturgeon-discloses-plan-joint/

…. Their interventions form part of a new strategy by which they will counter her surging approval ratings and support for separation by portraying her as an integral part of their UK-wide team ….
…. Speaking on a visit to Scotland, Mr Gove said: “I was talking to Nicola just last Friday and we agreed we would shortly release a shared statement across the UK about our approach towards the virus so whatever noises off we’ve had in the past, the right approach, the approach we discussed on Friday and shared on Saturday is to work well together.”

67244 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #244 of 1641 🔗

If Gove says it, it will be contradicted by Johnson or Hancock within days if not hours.

67245 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #245 of 1641 🔗

They are all equally guilty

67279 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #246 of 1641 🔗

Sounds like England might change to a Zero Covid strategy.

67287 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #247 of 1641 🔗

If they only do pillar 1 testing in hospitals and care homes we could be a zero tomorrow morning.

67463 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Will, 3, #248 of 1641 🔗

I wouldn’t trust this government or NHS if they told me tomorrow was Wednesday. That’s how bad I now distrust the Establishment.

67689 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Will, #249 of 1641 🔗

The Scottish administration never tested heavily as it didn’t trust outside agencies it couldn’t control. Caused some problems at the peak but may look wiser now.

67290 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nobody2020, #250 of 1641 🔗

That was my immediate reaction.

67334 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 3, #251 of 1641 🔗

I can see Boris now making the announcement:

“Let’s get COVID done so people can get back to dying properly”

67572 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #252 of 1641 🔗

Just been said by ‘expert’ on sky news. A ex WHO british doc living in Yorkshire stating there are no figures about quarantine compliance so better change to mandatory testing, then ended by saying he thinks covid zero is entirely possible.

67638 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, #253 of 1641 🔗

Look, they’d really better stop finding new ones, because at this rate, we’re going to need a really big wall, come the revolution.

67283 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #254 of 1641 🔗

He who sups with the devil had best have a long spoon

67307 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #255 of 1641 🔗

Wouldn’t trust Sturgeon as far as I could throw her. Does not sound like her at all – she is enjoying her ‘surging popularity’ far too much. Very fishy smell here!

67330 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #256 of 1641 🔗

I wouldn’t trust Gove as far as that!

67372 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #257 of 1641 🔗

“…. Speaking on a visit to Scotland, Mr Gove said:”

I thought it was cold today!

67644 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #258 of 1641 🔗

it’s a myth that support for her is rising. Plenty people despise her with a passion. She is destroying Scotland and even the fools who vote for her are starting to notice Scotland collapsing. The media on the other hand tell us everyday how the sun shines out her arse but the media are always wrong. Whatever they say it is always 100% the opposite, always.

67247 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 8, #259 of 1641 🔗

Ministers were told that one in five cases of coronavirus were spread by people without symptoms three weeks before the routine testing of hospital patients being moved to care homes was rolled out in Scotland.

How can someone with no symptoms spread a virus.

67272 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to stefarm, 3, #260 of 1641 🔗

I have often wondered that. When you think how a virus replicates, it does seem implausible that asymptomatic people could spread it. But what do I know. I’m not an “expert”.

67314 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 3, #261 of 1641 🔗

I’m guessing that an efficient immune system will deal with the virus with barely noticeable symptoms.
A poor immune system will have a bigger battle on its hands so the symptoms will be more severe?
As Pasteur acknowledged, it always comes back to the terrain.

67454 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #262 of 1641 🔗

Naturally. Our immune system is our defence!

67316 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Tenchy, 2, #263 of 1641 🔗

Notice how it said ministers were told, big nic does like a bit of blue sky thinking over a cup of tea and a biscuit. Doubt she asked for the proof, we know she emptied the hospitals of elderly patients with symptoms

67411 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Tenchy, 6, #264 of 1641 🔗

It’s nonsense. Healthy people don’t spread disease. But if that were acknowledged how would the powers that be continue to put the fear of god into us??? We must assume everyone is a potential disease vector and maintain all of these ridiculous measures to keep everyone “safe” from these horribly healthy people. I heard Judy Mikovits explain that we all carry around dormant viruses inside our bodies that are not causing us any problem until they become activated. We do not spread these viruses to other people because we are asymptomatic. But do you know what can activate these dormant viruses? Masks!!! Exhale our dormant virus particles into a mask where they become concentrated and then re-breath them into our noses. A recipe for sickness.

67311 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to stefarm, 1, #265 of 1641 🔗

This has worried me right from the start, as it has such huge implications for all other diseases. I really don’t know to counteract the argument either, as so many people are fixated on the virus and nothing else.

67335 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 4, #266 of 1641 🔗

Me too, but surely it is no different from a normal flu season. There must be natural immunity otherwise everybody would get it – mild to no symptoms = immunity

68166 ▶▶▶ sam, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #268 of 1641 🔗

The reason people get flu in the winter and not the summer is due to lack of vit D as the sun isn’t strong enough in the UK between Oct and April for us to be able to make it
People shold supplement vit D during the winter

67322 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stefarm, 3, #269 of 1641 🔗

They had to think of something to explain why the virus is/was spreading. It also deflects away from the possibility that a high proportion of transmission was in hospitals and care homes.

67336 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, #270 of 1641 🔗

So not bad hygiene and underlying health conditions???

67460 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #271 of 1641 🔗

Which is true. The NHS were the centres for the virus if you didn’t have it when you went into hospital you certainly had it when you left.

67450 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to stefarm, 2, #272 of 1641 🔗

They can’t. This is more propaganda from our Ministry of Misinformation. They should be swinging from the gallows.

67540 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to stefarm, #273 of 1641 🔗

I’m not infectious – You might be but you can’t prove you’re not
I’m not a witch – You might be but you can’t prove you’re not
I’m not a heretic – You might be but you can’t prove you’re not

68208 ▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, #274 of 1641 🔗

With their first course.
Souperspreaders.

67249 RickH, replying to RickH, 38, #275 of 1641 🔗

The one simple that is getting neglected at the moment :

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF AN EPIDEMIC LEVEL OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE IN THE UK AT THIS TIME (AND NO EVIDENCE AT ALL THAT THIS IS BECAUSE OF THE EFFICACY OF GOVERNMENT-IMPOSED MEASURES).

Sometimes the bleedin’ obvious needs stating in order to see the wood.

67256 ▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 3, #276 of 1641 🔗

I’m all for stating the unsaid obvious. Well done for doing so. Not patronising, the bleedin’ obviius gives a common base to discuss from. Always an aid to clarity.

67366 ▶▶ stewart, replying to RickH, 5, #277 of 1641 🔗

And no evidence that the disease they’ve identified is dangerous (except for the frail and ill who are vulnerable to all diseases.)

67447 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to stewart, 5, #278 of 1641 🔗

Which if they were being given HCQ with zinc would save them from any danger from the virus, but this government doesn’t want to save them they want them to die.

67453 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #279 of 1641 🔗

Maybe trump shouldn’t of mentioned the merits of hcq.

67485 ▶▶ Templeton, replying to RickH, 1, #280 of 1641 🔗

Agreed.
This has always stuck with me, as it hasnt changed from early March.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid

67596 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Templeton, 1, #281 of 1641 🔗

Did they do that so that at any future public enquiry they can claim that they told the truth and that we the people were just too stupid to notice..???

67250 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #282 of 1641 🔗

Anyone want to enrol in these studies and screw the results up? NO drugs, no tests, no strange treatments involved.

https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04386668?cond=covid-19&cntry=GB&draw=2 – creative writing assignment

https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04433260?cond=covid-19&cntry=GB&draw=2&rank=70 – questionnaires for any health care professionals out there in sceptics land

67264 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #283 of 1641 🔗

And i bet these people got grants for this rubbish

67274 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mjr, 5, #284 of 1641 🔗

There is also one for yoga classes for nHS staff to see if deep breathing helps them feel better and helps them cope.

You couldn’t make it up.

67281 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Awkward Git, 19, #285 of 1641 🔗

Me and the Mrs are getting progressively more depressed. Ultimately we’ll have to come to terms with being suddenly surrounded by flat-earthers, but I was wondering, if I really felt I needed professional support, how a counselling session would go. Doctor: What seems to be the trouble? Patient: Everyone has gone mad. Doctor: In what way? Patient: The world is full of people who think covid is like the black death. Doctor: ?????

Basically I would need to find a sceptic shrink, otherwise it would just make things worse. Think I’ll spend the money on wine instead.

67347 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 1, #286 of 1641 🔗

Your last comment works for me.

68146 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Awkward Git, #287 of 1641 🔗

Wise choice. Better to spend your money on drink rather than a shrink.

67364 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Julian, 4, #288 of 1641 🔗

It probably won’t be the last time I say it, but it’s a crying shame it’s not the black death. That’s very easily treatable with antibiotics these days. It would be much harder for immoral media types and incompetent governments to make as big a mess of such an outbreak.

67383 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 10, #289 of 1641 🔗

[Meant to be a reply to “black death” post from DoesDimSyniad]

If only that were true. The likely outcome is that “studies” would show that current off-patent antibiotics used safely for decades are not only ineffective but actually dangerous, while pharmaceutical companies push out drugs which “shorten recovery time” but which don’t reduce mortality, at the same time rushing out improperly tested vaccines that are “the only hope of beating the bacterium”

Sounds far-fetched doesn’t it, until you look into what’s actually happened here with hydroxychloroquine

68168 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #290 of 1641 🔗

they would just ban the antibiotics and make a fake study in the lancet saying they were dangerous as they have done with HDQ

67370 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Julian, 12, #291 of 1641 🔗

Here’s something to cheer you up.

They are going to rush out a vaccine. All the idiots who think they are currently in mortal danger from this virus will take it. The epidemic will be declared at an end. We can all get back to our lives.

Natural selection in this case will not be caused by the virus but by the vaccine.

67391 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to stewart, 6, #292 of 1641 🔗

I thought the same thing — let the sheeple line up for the vaccine, the pandemic is declared over, and we all get on with our lives. Except there is a huge call for mandatory vaccination and this scares the crap out of me. It’s the same as the mask BS — you must be vaccinated to protect others, regardless of the risks to yourself. We are all in this together after all! The insidious thing is that they tell us we don’t have to get vaccinated, we have a choice, but if we don’t we can be fired from our jobs, refused entry to shops, restaurants, airplanes, etc. So the “choice” is to take the poison or be barred from civil society. My only hope is that the vaccine trials are so abysmal that the issue of mandatory vaccination never materializes.

67398 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 6, #293 of 1641 🔗

I hope no-one ever tries to push any mandatory ‘flu jab; the cost of an assault charge in the magistrates’ Court is low enough to make it excellent value for money to punch someone very, very hard indeed. Most satisfying, too.

67406 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RichardJames, 2, #294 of 1641 🔗

Don’t want a mandatory vaccine of course, think a rushed vaccine is wrong for many reasons, mixed feelings about it – on the one hand if it enables us to move on then great, as long as I don’t have to have it, on the other, it perpetuates the lies and leaves us vulnerable next time, plus I feel sorry for kids forced into it by their parents

68170 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ sam, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #295 of 1641 🔗

https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/technology-world-news/michigan-ban-chip-implants-into-workers-by-companies/
The state of Michigan has introduced a bill designed to prevent employers from forcing their staff to accept microchip implants. The bill is to protect workers where companies might demand that workers accept a tracking chip under their skin. The only person advocating that technology is Bill Gates and ID2020 right now. These implants would be subject to biohacking. The argument which is the merger of technology and human physiology for the sake of augmentation claims it will improve society and eliminate illegal aliens.

67590 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stewart, 1, #296 of 1641 🔗

My suspicion (based on Bill G’s track record and other videos I have seen) is that the vaccine for children will contain a sterilising agent and that the damage caused will not show up for 7 years.

Any vaccine for adults is likely to be designed to either kill or make people more susceptible to other coronaviruses (like the current flu vaccine does). Thereby enabling further waves of viruses more likely to be pandemic and cause mass fatalities…

67809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Carrie, #297 of 1641 🔗
67371 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 1, #298 of 1641 🔗

Email me for my fees… I’m[at]haveagoscepticshrinkwhynot.com 2 4 1 offer as a new business start up enticement.

My motto: I totally won’t make things worse.

67410 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 2, #299 of 1641 🔗

Lol. A doctor with the approach of not making things worse. Novel. You’d never get a job at PHE.

67430 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 6, #300 of 1641 🔗

Just talk to us here, we are sceptics to the bone and we don’t charge… well…don’t charge much.

First bit of advice: NEVER listen to TV or radio news, CANCEL any feed delivering scaremongering news to your computer, AVOID social media, GET OUT MORE.
That’ll be .. let’s see…
I’ll send an invoice.

67440 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to annie, #301 of 1641 🔗

Thanks. I’m pretty much doing all that already…. I feel like I ought to look at the headlines on the BBC news website at least once a day, though latterly I’ve been doing it less

67522 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Julian, 3, #302 of 1641 🔗

Really don’t.

I thought the same – that I just needed to take a peek to see who famous had died and what the headlines were – and it just made me feel mad / sad / alone.
So I have utterly stopped – taken all the BBC sites off my task / search bar and removed all temptation. It has made an astonishing difference to my head-space. I am amazed.

I have found so much more to read & listen to as well. It has been a game changer for me and I urge you to try it. Just one week for starters….?

68006 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Little Red Hen, 1, #303 of 1641 🔗

Well done LRH. It really is an extremely difficult addiction to break, very glad you feel the benefits. 🙂

68225 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to JohnB, #304 of 1641 🔗

I miss the Archers…
But then again, the Archers has gone all Covid/Karen-tastic now and is dull as ditchwater. Those dreary voices…

67437 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Julian, 4, #305 of 1641 🔗

Spending your money on wine or other alcoholic beverage is a good choice. At least it keeps you happy, it works for us!

67432 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #306 of 1641 🔗

Err no! 😉

I haven’t had the virus, I don’t know of anyone who has, and I certainly do not trust the government or NHS with my health, especially now!

67251 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #307 of 1641 🔗

Sky news in South Africa, has any reporter looked more like an alien? Stand on a street with normal life going on all around him while he stands in mask and talks up the panic and the peril. Rings a true as the cracked Liberty Bell.

67309 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Basics, 10, #308 of 1641 🔗

I saw a report from South Africa this morning. Amongst other things, the journalist spoke to a woman in an extremely long queue of people waiting to be tested for the virus. Some had come back day after day because they hadn’t got as far as getting tested. The woman said a couple of things before remarking, “We don’t even know if we are ill.” I thought, well, that says it all, really.

67319 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Hoppity, #309 of 1641 🔗

Its the same report all day and throwing live to the reporter. He looks so, so out of place.

67326 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #310 of 1641 🔗

4 months to reach this stage in South Africa. Hmm. Stage is a word to ponder. Where are the gates foundations mobilising to health care the continent out of doom? No where.

67441 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Hoppity, 1, #311 of 1641 🔗

If she dies of it will she notice?

67533 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Hoppity, #312 of 1641 🔗

you have to wonder why they are there then? Is it compulsory to get tested?

67253 Julian, replying to Julian, 19, #313 of 1641 🔗

One can but hope though it seems unlikely. I think the best we can hope for is that the onset of covid fatigue, the burgeoning economic crisis and the lack of a second wave will gradually drag us back to normal, but I think it will be many long months before that happens. Worst case scenario this could go on for years, because people will just acquiesce and get used to the new normal.

The only reassurance I can offer is that you are not mad, it’s just a lot of other people who have gone mad, but there are a few sane people left.

And there are a few countries which have followed a more sensible course.

67436 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Julian, 14, #314 of 1641 🔗

I feel so hopeless many days as well. I thought Covid fatigue would set in much sooner and that the numbers would tell the tale and sanity would be restored. But I have to agree with Julian that I think we’re in for a long haul and it’s going to take an epic economic crisis — something people fear more than the virus — to create a shift in people’s thinking. Unfortunately, as people lose jobs, homes, and have trouble putting food on the table they will realize that starvation has a 100% death rate and Covid only has an IFR of 0.26%. I’m now just trying to figure out a way to stay sane while waiting this out. Knowing there are others who think the way I do is very helpful. Like Annie, I too am living for revenge and vindication! Not the healthiest mindset, but it’ll have to do for now.

67255 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 14, #315 of 1641 🔗

I’m a regional organiser for a classic car club and as such have to write a monthly report of the region’s activities for the club magazine. At the end of each month I get an email from the chap who collates the reports and normally he just lets me know when he wants it for. This time he included the following ‘We will need to edit out any [reports] that appear to have been breaking the guidelines’. So my report that is only going to be read by club members is going to be censored?

Am I being unreasonable here, or is this getting really silly.

67277 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Biggles, 14, #316 of 1641 🔗

No this went past silly some time ago and is now well on the way to madness.

We have to stand up against both the government setting out stupid guidance & those who want to add their own embellishments to any guidance.

If any members of your motor club submitted reports of a gathering, then they have already done what they wanted to do and told you about it, do not let the collator become a censor.

As a keen driver, at the height of this madness getting out for a drive one one pleasures which continued, and the roads were incredibly quiet, and the cost of fuel was at rock bottom.

Enjoy your vehicle whilst you are still allowed to.

67308 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Biggles, 2, #317 of 1641 🔗

Can you report any social events with PHE’d numbers? (ie altered to suit your agenda).
That way people will know there’s social life to be had but you won’t drop anyone in it.

67324 ▶▶▶ Biggles, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #318 of 1641 🔗

I’ve done a re-write of the report. Not that much to talk about, just a regional meeting and one car show. I normally give everyone who turns up a mention but have toned this down a bit to conceal the numbers. It will be interesting to see whether it passes the censor. Won’t find out until the magazine arrives in September!

67263 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 18, #319 of 1641 🔗

The “America’s Frontline Doctors” story is depressing. I was hoping for something like this – professionals coming together to present a more fact-based and less alarmist view of the pandemic – but, predictably, it’s been effectively censored by social media, presumably as “misinformation”.Let’s hope this is just the beginning of a wider movement.

67488 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Drawde927, 2, #320 of 1641 🔗

The censorship is depressing but entirely expected. However, I think this story is too big to suppress no matter how much they try. It’s not David Icke saying it, it’s not “conspiracy theorists”, it’s doctors on the frontline. What possible motive could they have for lying? I’m sharing the videos with everyone I know and I think I’ve managed to plant a few seeds of doubt in the official narrative. I would urge everyone to do the same.

67544 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Chicot, #321 of 1641 🔗

I would share it, but at 3+ hours I suspect most people wouldn’t want to sit through it! (I didn’t watch all of it, to be honest – but it’s preaching to the converted anyway in my case). I’ll definitely share the Barry Norris articles though.

67577 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Drawde927, 1, #322 of 1641 🔗

No, I don’t think many people would sit through the entirety of both videos but just watching some of it may be enough to get people thinking.

67812 ▶▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Drawde927, #323 of 1641 🔗
67266 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #324 of 1641 🔗

Looking at HMRC figures for the furlough scheme, the number of furloughed jobs as gone up by 100,000 since 12 July, I assumed, probably like many that the number would be reducing as businesses reopen or ramp up to pre cv19 levels of business.

Are some businesses using the “Job Retention Scheme” to test the waters to see if they can restructure, using the furlough scheme to see if they can operate without certain individuals, before chopping them?

I am sure many businesses are having a tough time and the furlough scheme is preventing them from going out of business.

67270 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #325 of 1641 🔗

Don’t known if people are aware of this but you can put staff on furlough and send them on training courses. So basically, you can use the Furlough money to pay for the training courses.

67296 ▶▶ matt, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #326 of 1641 🔗

“Are some businesses using the “Job Retention Scheme” to test the waters to see if they can restructure, using the furlough scheme to see if they can operate without certain individuals, before chopping them?”

I’m absolutely certain this is the case, yes. Most will have used it honestly at the beginning though some of those will have accidentally discovered they don’t need these people after all (especially with the economy tanking”), but some will have abused it from the start. Some (many?) of those who have furloughed staff more recently will have done so either to test the waters of living without them or or in an effort to extend a redundancy process to keep the staff on a wage for as long as possible for the benefit of the redundant workers.

67286 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #327 of 1641 🔗

Scottish numbers: 28 July 2020

4 new confirmed cases of COVID-19; this is 0.1% of newly tested individuals.

6,690 new tests for COVID-19 that reported results.

Scot Gov data.

0.1% of 6690 is 6.69 – two and a half times the Scot Gov stated 4 cases. How they think this fits together is unknown to me.

0 deaths
260 in icu
13 suspects in care homes
Etc.

67294 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 4, #328 of 1641 🔗

As we’ve said before – there is no coronavirus in Scotland now.

67312 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Tenchy, 7, #329 of 1641 🔗

This is extremely dangerous talk that could cost lives. You should be ashamed of yourself. Go stand in the corner and have a think about what you’ve done.

67352 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #330 of 1641 🔗

“Nicola Sturgeon said if Scots came across a business which was not following the rules, they should simply leave and protect their health.”

From: https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/nicola-sturgeon-coronavirus-scotland-pubs-18675621

What does anybody know about afraid-fatigue?

67315 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 7, #331 of 1641 🔗

Place is swilling with it if I look out of window. I can see all manner of essential piece-meal protective measures. Corona virus isn’t the unseen virus it is a virus in people minds.

67433 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Basics, 2, #332 of 1641 🔗

more people died from drinking Irn Bru in Scotland than from this virus

67476 ▶▶▶ Seamonster, replying to Biker, #333 of 1641 🔗

Without a doubt that is true.

67291 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 8, #334 of 1641 🔗

I am noticing that outside London number of cars on the road is high but many buses are empty. I wonder if the mask madness is reducing air quality.

67297 ▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, 10, #335 of 1641 🔗

Absolutely.

The only beneficial side-effect of this sham is the improvement in air quality resulting from decreaed car use.

However – the mask-effect discourages use of public transport – and encourages car use.

As with much of the current nonsense, you really couldn’t make it up.

67306 ▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 1, #336 of 1641 🔗

Report I got from Manchester was as you indicate. Very high levels of cars because public transport not being used. Why would you use if you percieve it is going to kill you or at least cause you two weeks in home slammer with no pay and/or redundency.

67521 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Basics, 3, #337 of 1641 🔗

Yes but the original guidance was not to use public transport ……so everyone got in their cars again and in spite of the (now) public messages to move more, take up cycling – cars are soooo much easier. How to shoot yourself in both feet and anyone else standing nearby.

67543 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Keen Cook, #338 of 1641 🔗

Precisely. Pop in the track trace and dont work for two week game and you have a recipe for traffic jams forever more.

67582 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #339 of 1641 🔗

I think this is all deliberately designed to be confusing, to ramp up people’s feelings of desperation and make them take the vaccine just to be rid of some of the regulations and restrictions..

67299 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #340 of 1641 🔗

More on the ‘No Shows’ in pubs and restaurants. The city is dead to go out in the evening is a draining effort to fight the ghost town there is no vibrancy or enjoyment. Clink, clink of cultery on a plate is not the sound of atmosphere and fun.

Edinburgh Live reports:

An increasing number of bars, pubs and restaurants across the city are speaking out over the no shows which are ‘crippling the industry’ as they attempt to recover from lockdown

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/best-in-edinburgh/restaurants-bars/edinburgh-bars-plea-selfish-no-18676162

Each and every business stating ‘no shows’ are crippling the industry needs to go under imo. How lazy they are in acquiescing to blatant lockdown terrorism of life then shift the blame upon hard pressed and pretty well pissed off customers. Clueless. But perhaps it is the official line and so there is no reason to suppose this shift in blame is not introduced by compliant media.

67349 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Basics, 8, #341 of 1641 🔗

One can only wonder how long before people get sufficiently uncomfortable that they are finally motivated to think a bit, realise it’s all completely unnecessary, get very angry, and finally start coming out with pitchforks.

67367 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Basics, 10, #342 of 1641 🔗

The kind of people around whom our society has now been reconfigured are generally disinterested in pubs and bars. Sadly the corporate brainwashing has been so successful that even the complete and permanent destruction of their business is not enough for management to change their “Covid safe” policies. It will only take a handful of establishments in every town and city to break ranks and start attracting customers back to begin to reverse this trend, but this has to happen quickly otherwise pubs will be consigned to museum exhibitions.

67720 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, #343 of 1641 🔗

I wonder if they don’t realise that these no shows are basically people’s way of boycotting and saying that they’re not happy with the hospitality industry’s “Covid Safety” protocols. You try to write to them but get fobbed off by form or patronising responses so what’s the best way to do it? Hit them hard on the pocket by booking a table and not turning up.

If this doesn’t wake them up and try to lobby the government to end their insane policies then they only have themselves to blame when the finally go under.

68179 ▶▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to Bart Simpson, #344 of 1641 🔗

If you intend to do that you must not leave them in the dark as to why you last minute cancelled, otherwise they might think you were a coronanist wanting mroe stringent bullshit protocols. They need to know it was health and safetyism whch put you off turning up, you’d better email afterwards to inform them of that.

67303 Lili, replying to Lili, 8, #345 of 1641 🔗

The piece about the grandmother’s jewellery going missing is straight out of the Nazi instruction manual.

67344 ▶▶ Hoppity, replying to Lili, 6, #346 of 1641 🔗

My father spoke to me once about what he referred to as ‘ghouls’ he’d seen during WWII, doing whatever was necessary to avail themselves of wedding rings, etc. worn by those who’d been killed in battle. He removed my mother’s wedding ring after she died (in hospital) to ensure that it didn’t ‘go missing’. And I removed his after he died (in hospital), for the same reason.

67388 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Hoppity, 6, #347 of 1641 🔗

Never allow anyone to go into hospital with anything except a small amount of cash. The last time I had to go into hospital, my “personal effects” went straight into my wife’s handbag to be taken home with her. It’s not just the monetary cost, of course; it’s the sentimental value.

67444 ▶▶ annie, replying to Lili, #348 of 1641 🔗

Lucky she didn’t have a gold tooth.
What revolting people they are.

67304 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 14, #349 of 1641 🔗

In days gone by prepare for the worst meant people would be ready to act if the worst was to happen.

Now it means act as if the worst is happening all the time.

67389 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #350 of 1641 🔗

True. I imagine there were a few people in WW2 who permanently lived in their Anderson shelters. I bet they had a horrible few years.

67836 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Lockdown Truth, #351 of 1641 🔗

In Dad’s Army Mrs Mannering hadn’t left the house since Chamberlain went to Munich.

67317 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 17, #352 of 1641 🔗

Feel quite depressed. We have just driven into the nearest big resort to where we are staying. Normally we wouldn’t venture anywhere near it at this time of year but it is a ghost town now. Yes, the shops and cafes are open but there is no-one there to buy. Masks are really pointless-people are already fifty metres apart anyway. I can’t see us ever coming back here. By next year I feel a lot of places will have shut for good anyway.

We drove along by the beach where they have put in zones to keep people apart. It seems they were extremely over-optimistic about the amount of squares they would need. Hundreds of sun beds-all empty and very few people there for the size of resort. Very sad.

Now Boris is desperately trying to justify the decision about quarantine. It appears from the post below about the WHO saying that there will probably be just one big wave and lots of little ripples, that Boris is not singing from the same hymn sheet as they are. Oops, sorry, forgot singing was banned.

Happy to see though that Chris Bryant who chairs the all-party parliamentary group for Spain has said that he can’t understand what has happened: ” And there are many, many areas of Spain which have much lower infection rates than many areas in the U.K. I think that this has been terribly badly handled”

Me too, Chris, me too.

I’ve just given a broadside to MP pointing out those very facts.

(I did get my crown done at the dentist’s though!)

67390 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Margaret, 1, #353 of 1641 🔗

The whole thing is utterly depressing. The dentist; how was that? Is drilling now allowed?

67468 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Tenchy, 3, #354 of 1641 🔗

Absolutely is allowed, which is why I decided to have it done while I was here. Fantastic technology, porcelain crown created in front of my very eyes after being designed by the computer. Think it’s available in the UK now but I’d not seen it before. Cost much less than it would have done in the UK too.

67527 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Margaret, 1, #355 of 1641 🔗

I heard Dr Sing (doctor that sings in case you’re not as old as me) from Sesame Street has been cancelled due to Coronavirus.

67351 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 4, #356 of 1641 🔗

Who on earth would get their cat tested for Covid? And why?

67353 ▶▶ Edna, replying to RDawg, #357 of 1641 🔗

Exactly what I wondered!

67359 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to RDawg, 2, #358 of 1641 🔗

Well they had already had their goat and paw paw fruit tested so thought the cat was due a test.

67408 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #359 of 1641 🔗

Wouldn’t it be funny if someone tested a snail or fly and they got a positive result.

67404 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to RDawg, 1, #360 of 1641 🔗

That is a point. Why would you even think your cat had Covid?

67431 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Laura Suckling, 5, #361 of 1641 🔗

because it was lying on the sofa wearing a mask and watching Game of Thrones box set . (although that could be a teacher. i get confused)

67434 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, #362 of 1641 🔗

not including the sceptic teachers we get on this site

67456 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to RDawg, 3, #363 of 1641 🔗

Haven’t you heard of a cat scan?

67358 Basics, 1, #364 of 1641 🔗

Your employer could cancel your trip abroad over coronavirus quarantine

An employment law expert told LBC the law is “stacked against employees and in favour of the employer”.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/scotland-air-bridges-employer-quarantine-18676388

They ask you to cancel your agreed leave. If you refuse it becomes gross misconduct.

67360 A Reader, replying to A Reader, 11, #365 of 1641 🔗

I think it’s likely the Spain quarantine decision is political, made by Cummings. They get to set the news agenda for this whole week, and move it away from masks & their handling of the pandemic onto a subject where (to the average member of the public) Boris appears to be taking decisive action. Also, it gives the very helpful impression to the public that Spain is in a worse position than we are. It’s really excellent politics.

Worth noting that in Spain, the daily case rate is 40/million (and these are mostly in Catalonia). In Luxembourg, it is 200/million, but you do not have to quarantine when you get back.

67373 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A Reader, 10, #366 of 1641 🔗

Aren’t all covid related decisions political? Can you point to any that have plausibly been made for public health reasons?

The PM has taken decisive action, to ruin people’s summers, and the travel industry. Not sure how that one gains him popularity. Would have thought they would have chosen a smaller country to target. Somewhat surprised actually. Also don’t see why they’d want to move the agenda away from masks and their handling of the pandemic. Masks don’t seem to be unpopular, and the stories about the fiddled stats and care homes seemed to die out when we had the Russian nonsense in the headlines.

67382 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Julian, 4, #367 of 1641 🔗

Good point. And Spain has far more draconian measures. Masks are mandatory in all public spaces – indoors and outdoors, including the beaches, except when in the water or lying on your towel. No joke.

So all they’ll be doing is risk drawing attention to the lack of efficacy of draconian measures.

67579 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 1, #368 of 1641 🔗

Well they wouldn’t choose France – too many MPs with second homes there; wouldn’t want to inconvenience them..

I think this is also to make people sign up for the Covipass, to avoid quarantines in the future – and what do you need to have to be able to get a covipass? The vaccine…

67407 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to A Reader, 4, #369 of 1641 🔗

Eh? Boris taking decisive action? The man’s an idiot! The whole coronavirus debacle has been nothing short of a government conspiracy in league with Bill Gates! This is all linked to the Green Agenda!

67422 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #370 of 1641 🔗

He can’t be both an idiot and successfully conspiring with Bill Gates.

Hard as it might be to accept, this is probably all down to a lethal combination of of ineptitude by public officials, dishonesty by media and mass stupidity, possibly stirred up by Bill Gates and others sociopaths like him.

67980 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stewart, #371 of 1641 🔗

In one country, yes. In a dozen or so, maybe. In 140 ?

67465 ▶▶ Seamonster, replying to A Reader, 2, #372 of 1641 🔗

For sure it’s political. Cos it doesn’t make any logical sense , especially in relation to the islands ( canaries are 1400 miles from Catalonia!) my guess is it’s brexit related ( fishing?) or Gibraltar. Thoughts?

67575 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to A Reader, #373 of 1641 🔗

They need to focus people on Spain, while they plant pictures in the MSM of people wearing gloves, ready for the next regulation…

67365 Laura Suckling, replying to Laura Suckling, 9, #374 of 1641 🔗

Surprisingly pleasant 1st visit to the gym today. Notices about washing hands and wiping down equipment (which you should do anyway). Machines spaced out more but much the same, deep joy!

67375 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #375 of 1641 🔗

Fantastic! Which gym was that?

67394 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to RDawg, 1, #376 of 1641 🔗

Anytime Fitness.

67427 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Laura Suckling, 5, #377 of 1641 🔗

I’m glad you’re back doing what you love but for myself i doubt i’d ever be able to utter the words “deep joy” about to going to the gym. I’ve always been of the opinion that no other species on this planet exercises so why should i.

67459 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Biker, 1, #378 of 1641 🔗

Well, I wouldn’t normally, but it felt great just doing something that I used to do. The local leisure centre however, is yet to reopen so no yoga for me. Anyway, you’re a cyclist so you do exercise.

67369 NickR, replying to NickR, 14, #379 of 1641 🔗

The Bank of England’s projections for the cost of the UK economy range from £200bn to £550bn. Let’s take the higher estimate, which looks increasingly all too credible.  Then contrast this with Imperial’s projection of lives saved by the Lockdown which run from 20,000 to 440,000, and let’s stick with the 20,000 estimate, far more credible than 440,000! Indeed Sir Patrick Vallance, the Chief Medical Officer has made the point that the Lockdown, in the absence of a vaccine won’t save any lives just defer them. If we also accept the estimate made by the NHS/Government Actuaries in their April 8th paper that estimates 200,000 non-Covid 19 deaths resulting from the Lockdown then we get the following cost/benefit equation.
Cost: £550bn
Benefit: 20,000 lives saved by Lockdown
Average cost per life saved = £25m
Plus…….
Non-Covid lives lost due to Lockdown 200,000 (according to NHS estimate)
Non-Covid lives lost per Covid death saved = 10

Each life saved would have cost us, on average £25m + the sacrifice of 10 non-Covid deaths.
The Imperial paper can be viewed here: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/d.miles/document/7583/Miles%20Stedman%20Heald%20NIESR/?Miles%20Stedman%20Heald%20NIESR.pdf
The NHS/Actuaries report can be viewed here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/892030/S0120_Initial_estimates_of_Excess_Deaths_from_COVID-19.pdf
Sweden’s approach looks like having caused half the economic loss our approach has caused and their death rate is significantly below ours. We need to end the Lockdown & learn to live with this.

68209 ▶▶ annie, replying to NickR, #380 of 1641 🔗

It’s junk statistics anyway.
‘lives saved’? Where’s the proof?There isn’t any. There can’t be any.

67401 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Tenchy, 3, #383 of 1641 🔗

‘confusion, paranoia and hallucinations’

Yes, that’s right, all symptoms of Covidiocy, courtesy of SPI-B.

67458 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Tenchy, 3, #384 of 1641 🔗

I posted this a couple of days ago but just before the cutoff:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/172-bizarre-coronavirus-symptoms-long-18660624

172 symptoms apparently, and the headline says actual bed-wetting is a symptom (but we all know it is just a correlation).

67483 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to TheBluePill, #385 of 1641 🔗

🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

67387 mjr, replying to mjr, 14, #386 of 1641 🔗

Survey results shown on Guido
New polling from Kekst CNC has revealed that on average the British public believe a whopping 7% of the UK population has died from Coronavirus, a number 100 times higher than the recorded-death reality. Brits also believe that 22% of the country has had coronavirus, when the real surveyed number is four times less – between 5 and 6%. Brits are also the most fearful of a second wave of infections of any country polled, with more than three-quarters (76%) expecting one in the next year or so…

How can we deal with such stupidity? (not helped by MSM of course)

67392 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mjr, 10, #387 of 1641 🔗

We have to recognise that we are a nation of stupid people. Present company excepted.

67396 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #388 of 1641 🔗

BEING STUPID FOR BRITAIN!

67397 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella Donna, 14, #389 of 1641 🔗

To be fair, I would probably have struggled 6 months ago to tell you how many people die every year in the UK, and what they mainly die of (I suppose I would have got a few right, e.g. cancer, heart disease) but not all of them and not the proportions. That’s because it wasn’t important to me – I was happy with my level of risk and looked after my health, within reason. Once covid started, I thought it best to find out. Most people haven’t done that. That’s what I find baffling. But our despicable politicians should have put the figures into context – excess deaths etc, comparisons to previous pandemics – rather than quoting absolute numbers. They 100% knew what they were doing, and should rot in hell for it.

67568 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella Donna, #390 of 1641 🔗

Other populations have likely not been subjected to the shenanigans of the Behavioural manipulation group or whatever they’re called..that ‘nudging’ team..

67403 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to mjr, 7, #391 of 1641 🔗

People, i.e. sheeple, are so bloody gullible. I put a great deal of it down to the MSM. As to how you deal with it, in the short term I don’t think you can. Longer term it has to be down to the education system in this country, but I wouldn’t hold out much hope there.

67571 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #392 of 1641 🔗

Question: without the BBC and other members of the MSM, would Brits have been so easily brainwashed?

67446 ▶▶ Seamonster, replying to mjr, #393 of 1641 🔗

Let’s get religion back to deal with these half wits. It’s an easier way to control the masses.

67462 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Seamonster, #394 of 1641 🔗

Which religion do you have in mind?

67482 ▶▶▶▶ Seamonster, replying to Steve Hayes, #395 of 1641 🔗

Any of them , it doesn’t matter.

68498 ▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Seamonster, #396 of 1641 🔗

Islam?

67480 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to mjr, 1, #397 of 1641 🔗

I don’t fear this virus at all its the stupidity of my fellowman that I find worrying. When you try and explain it and you see their eyes glaze over you think sod it why am I even bothering!

67512 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mjr, #398 of 1641 🔗

Yikes!

67402 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 18, #399 of 1641 🔗

It seems very strange to me that the experts have still not noticed that the average age of coronavirus related deaths is over eighty years, whilst life expectancy is under eighty years, which means that the virus has had zero effect on mortality. Surely such smart people as Whitty and Valance must be aware of this?

67409 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Steve Hayes, 10, #400 of 1641 🔗

They may well be but this information is not in their script.

67428 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 7, #401 of 1641 🔗

The extent to which some of the cabal know exactly how nonsensical this all is and how much they are lazy and ignorant is an interesting question, but we have to assume some of them know all of this very well but don’t care and others are not that interested in knowing. For a while I believed in some level of good intentions, now by default position is that there are NONE unless proven otherwise.

67467 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #402 of 1641 🔗

Because its nothing to do with the actual virus it’s about the Big Reset.

67493 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #403 of 1641 🔗

Nah, it’s because you hate old people Steve.

No further thinking about this question is necessary.

67500 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #404 of 1641 🔗

Whitty is not “smart”; he knows what he is doing. Therefore he could be considered “evil” instead, by some.

67516 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #405 of 1641 🔗

All these people that died could have lived a bit longer.

You can’t say that about any other causes of death. End of discussion.

67562 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Steve Hayes, 4, #406 of 1641 🔗

They are both in the pay of Bill Gates; say no more…

67412 Adam, replying to Adam, 8, #407 of 1641 🔗

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/28/people-6ft-have-double-risk-coronavirus-study-suggests/

Panicked when I read the headline as I’m 6’2″ but then I read the article in full, and it says people with natural science degrees are less affected. Fortunately I have, so that compensates. Phew… I’m still safe.

You could not make this shit up. Oh, wait…. errrr appears The Telegraph can and has.

67421 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Adam, 7, #408 of 1641 🔗

There is a positive correlation between ice cream consumption and death by drowning. Using what passes for logic in the mainstream media, the headline is eating ice cream increases risk of drowning a giggizlion percent.

67438 ▶▶ Seamonster, replying to Adam, 3, #409 of 1641 🔗

That is truly mad. Fortunately I also have a physics degree and am 6ft 3. So safe as houses. We have definitely entered an alternative reality.

67443 ▶▶▶ Adam, replying to Seamonster, #410 of 1641 🔗

Physics also

67442 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Adam, 1, #411 of 1641 🔗

I’m going to have to saw 3″ off my legs.

67464 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #412 of 1641 🔗

Can I have them? I’m 5’2.

67445 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Adam, #413 of 1641 🔗

There’s going to be tough competition at this year’s Ig Nobel Awards.

67586 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Adam, #415 of 1641 🔗

All this because Boris stands accused of being a bit liberal with the truth about his own height (presumably to push down his BMI) – he is claiming 5’10” but Guido is calling 5’8″ max I think!

68160 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #416 of 1641 🔗

Lead by example Mr. Prime Minister. Time to start dieting. Perhaps a fitness program on TV every morning on his exercycle. Wearing a mask, of course.

67417 annie, 7, #417 of 1641 🔗

Nit soon, but it will end and we will be 1.vindicated, 2. revenged.
Meanwhile, live as normally as you can, smile, be happy, ’cause They hate all that.

67420 ted, replying to ted, 11, #418 of 1641 🔗

I think we need to come to a place of acceptance that this totalitarian world is going to be in place for at least the next 9 months, until the next winter season of respiratory illness is over. I have felt much better by accepting that we now live in the sort of mindless totalitarian states that we had thought we’re a thing of the past by 1980 or so. But it seems a generation has come to power that has decided that only the total control of all people at all times is the way to “stay safe.” They are such zealots that no argument would ever sway them, and we will have to relearn the lessons of survival for residents who suffered totalitarian regimes of the past. Have faith, these arrangements collapse of their own weight rather quickly. In the mean time, taking care of you and yours is essential.

68052 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to ted, 3, #419 of 1641 🔗

I think we need to come to a place of acceptance that this totalitarian world is going to be in place for at least the next 9 months …

Nothing personal, Ted, but fuck that for a game of soldiers.

68154 ▶▶ sam, replying to ted, #420 of 1641 🔗

think it wll be here for 11 years until the UN is defunded but the west will be finished
Its just time

67426 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 3, #421 of 1641 🔗

We promise these people are not saying ‘masturbate’:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF7WPV3Bs6I

67783 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, #422 of 1641 🔗

Bunch of Wankers!

67429 Paul, replying to Paul, 20, #423 of 1641 🔗

Today’s observation of the muzzled in my town in Lincolnshire seemed to show a slight reduction from last weekend surprisingly,my wife noticed more unmasked customers in Morrisons although they were still only a small minority.I saw two chaps,in their sixties,who were obviously having difficulties because of wearing a mask,one of them in particular was very red-faced and was clearly having problems breathing properly and he was on the street not actually in a shop !,I was driving on the other side of the road so I couldn’t stop and make sure he was okay but there were other people on the path near him so hopefully someone helped him.
My wife is as sceptical as I am and against masks but due to receiving some abuse for being maskless the other day and going shopping on her own she decided to mask up today.When I gave her a lift home she was not feeling well at all,she was very pale,she had an headache,her eyes were sore,her neck was aching and she felt very faint.Proof,as if we needed it,that being muzzled is a very bad thing to do.She said she will never wear a mask again.

67455 ▶▶ annie, replying to Paul, 4, #424 of 1641 🔗

She can get an exemption lanyard. See middle of Toby’s page.

67883 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to annie, #425 of 1641 🔗

Yes,I’ve sent for some Annie for her and her friend who has a bad lung complaint,they both feel more confident about going to the shops now and are planning a mission for next Monday !.

67473 ▶▶ davews, replying to Paul, 12, #426 of 1641 🔗

I am told there was a confrontation this afternoon in my local Tesco with a woman challenging someone for not wearing a mask and loud voices at the customer services desk. It seems some of these mask vigilates egged on by Cressida are getting too nasty for comfort.

67452 annie, replying to annie, 3, #427 of 1641 🔗

Has PC Pisspot been censored? Can’t find any of his recent pieces

67461 ▶▶ Edna, replying to annie, 2, #428 of 1641 🔗

This is the latest Andrew Lawrence (as hilarious as ever)
https://twitter.com/andrewlawrence/status/1288046176378531840

and this is the last PC Pisspot one:
https://twitter.com/andrewlawrence/status/1285171360139026432

67552 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Edna, 4, #429 of 1641 🔗

He will on tour – http://andrewlawrencecomedy.co.uk/tour.php

Big LS get together?

67469 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 21, #430 of 1641 🔗

Here’s a brilliant comment under Sarah Knapton’s article:

Dawn Starr:
There’s no such thing as asymptomatic infection. People with positive antigen tests but without symptoms are recovered immune people not asymptomatic infected people. So it’s really very simple. If you have symptoms stay home. If you don’t have symptoms you aren’t an infection risk to anyone and don’t need to wear a mask. It’s really not hard.

Nobody without symptoms should muzzle up. There are no benefits whatsoever and considerable downsides. The legislation is ultra vires and fines won’t stand in court with a decent lawyer.

Reicher is one of the hard left architects of the lockdown who, along with communist and China apologist Susan Michie and others, advised the government to conduct a psychological campaign of terror and manipulation on the British public that has resulted in about 50% of people now having actual mental illness – Covid psychosis. None of this was done with consent, placing the SPI-B team well beyond the ethical constraints of medicine and their own professional body.

I hope that criminal charges will eventually be made against SPI-B and the ministers who went along with it. Either way, The Telegraph should not be lending credence to anyone carrying out unethical behaviour modification. Readers may be interested to know that Reicher also employs his behaviour manipulation techniques in the service of discredited climate science.

What do we call it when a government wishes to pursue policy that would not be chosen voluntarily on the basis of reason, because facts don’t support it, and therefore engages psychological warfare to terrorise the people and engages in censorship to suppress facts that might contradict the chosen policy? Let me see. Communism? Fascism? Totalitarianism? Suggestions?

67494 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #431 of 1641 🔗

“What do we call it when a government wishes to pursue policy that would not be chosen voluntarily on the basis of reason, because facts don’t support it, and therefore engages psychological warfare to terrorise the people and engages in censorship to suppress facts that might contradict the chosen policy? Let me see. Communism? Fascism? Totalitarianism?”

Tyranny.

67513 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #432 of 1641 🔗

Simply wrong and unacceptable.

67779 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #433 of 1641 🔗

EVIL

67472 Alci, replying to Alci, 27, #434 of 1641 🔗

Popped my mask-free cherry today visiting a local garden centre. I had a very aggressive, sneering “where’s your mask, then?” as I entered from a passing (male) customer, which would have been intimidating if I was so inclined. I had my two young children (1 & 3) with me so only felt angry and protective: glanced at him and said “medical condition” (false) at which he muttered impotently. I abhor lying but didn’t want confrontation.
The other weird moment was a lady smiling (I think) at my children. (It could have been a glare though as children are “strongly discouraged” on the garden centre website.) I could only see her eyes of course. In ye olde days, being Yorkshire, jolly little chats about your children with complete strangers are very common. Or were. On seeing I had no mask she frowned (I think) and hurried away.
Oh the joys.

67525 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Alci, 5, #435 of 1641 🔗

Well done.

Invigorating and made you feel alive didn’t it?

Not a brainwashed sheeple but a free thinking human.

67566 ▶▶▶ Alci, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #436 of 1641 🔗

Yes! Free thinkers unite.

67576 ▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Alci, 3, #437 of 1641 🔗

Well done you – your children need to see you smile and see your mouth move as you chat. It is reassuring and natural.

Finding a way to explain to them how and why everyone else has become distant and silent is a whole lot harder. This is where you should focus – not on pleasing the weirdos that now inhabit their world, but in being as present, cheerful, normal, conversational, motherly, attentive and reassuring as you can be to them. You are their bulwark against the strange world.

Then, when they do see someone who is un-muzzled and smiling, they will still have that craft – the childlike / human ability to respond instantly and naturally. You must keep it alive in them.

67910 ▶▶▶ Alci, replying to Little Red Hen, 1, #438 of 1641 🔗

Thank you! I fully agree. Without this website, and the mask-free selfies on Twitter, not sure I’d have had the confidence. Supermarket next!

67730 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Alci, 4, #439 of 1641 🔗

Well done and good on you for setting an example to your children about standing up for themselves. It’s dispiriting seeing parents muzzle their children – its child abuse IMO.

67774 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Alci, 3, #440 of 1641 🔗

FREE YOUR FACE, THE REST WILL FOLLOW!
SIng that to the tune of Free Your Mind, the rest will follow. It helps, as a little victory tune perhaps?

67474 hat man, replying to hat man, #441 of 1641 🔗

Third time lucky perhaps.

Does anyone know whether this government scheme, due to expire on 17 July, has been renewed?

http://www.newsmediauk.org/Latest/government-partners-with-newspaper-industry-on-covid-19-ad-campaign

I’ve seen postings to this site with at least two links in them, so the link here can’t be the reason why my two previous attempts weren’t accepted.

67497 ▶▶ matt, replying to hat man, 2, #442 of 1641 🔗

They both were accepted Philip. I’m just not sure anyone has known the answer. I’ve seen all 3 posts and responded to this one and the last one.

67502 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to hat man, 1, #443 of 1641 🔗

I saw yesterdays too Philip and I suspect it has been renewed but only because of the unrelenting MSM hysteria

67545 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to hat man, #444 of 1641 🔗

Refresh the page!

67556 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to hat man, #445 of 1641 🔗

I’ve seen your previous posts, but I cannot answer your question..

67478 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #446 of 1641 🔗

More comments from Sarah Knapton’s article These are rather disturbing:

12:26PM
Can bacteria travel up the olfactory nerve to infect the meninges? Neisseria meningitides can…the olfactory system is a direct pathway to pathogen infection of central nervous: system; does mask-wearing increase the risk??
The law of unintended consequences.

12:47PM
They may not be able to travel, I’m not sure, but a nasal swab already contaminated at manufacturer would certainly place them there.

12:53PM
Yes I saw the US Department of Health put out news that they had accidentally contaminated 12,000 swabs. I mean how can anyone believe this rubbish? It defies belief. If I hadn’t seen it on an actual government website I would have said it was wind up. But sure enough that’s what they said. How is that even possible? Also a friend of mine said these swabs have some kind of yellow gel on the tip they are not clean swabs. So is this stage 1 of the vaccine they had obviously already created BEFORE any of us had even heard the term coronavirus? Why are they locking down Melbourne and forcing people to have tests? The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

67821 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #447 of 1641 🔗

They’re not forcing people generally in Melbourne to have ‘tests’ – I should know as I’m stuck in this dump until the ban on outward travel from Australia is removed. I’m exempt from their muzzling (restricted to those with medical conditions here, although no conditions seem to be excluded from exemption), but even if I weren’t I wouldn’t be wearing the filthy things. I see a fair few not, though a depressing number who do. My cousins have been complying openly with that, but completely flouting the lockdown otherwise, and I say good for them, and wonder if that is how many others are acting.

My sister in Swindon is avoiding shops, but will be holidaying in Scotland soon 🙄 , so she and my brother-in-law have sorted out masks in case they absolutely need to go somewhere they’re being enforced. They’re not exactly sceptics, but aren’t keen on the nonsense.

67479 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 3, #448 of 1641 🔗

This stuff the Telegraph put out this morning about shortening quarantine if you get tested-how does that work? We’re only here for six days. The incubation period can be anything up to two weeks or even more. If we were unfortunate enough to test positive for Covid when we got back, how could they know that we hadn’t taken it with us rather than brought it back?

67492 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Margaret, 7, #449 of 1641 🔗

Good question. It’s all theatre anyway, so any actual practical considerations are irrelevant because we are dealing with a cult and a government of liars.

67504 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Margaret, 4, #450 of 1641 🔗

I would not get tested, too many false positives

67553 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 3, #451 of 1641 🔗

I wouldn’t either – I’m not convinced they are not using testing to build a huge DNA database..

67600 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Victoria, 2, #452 of 1641 🔗

Yes indeed, if you can avoid it stay well away from the testing monster. In theory testing should be a good idea, in practice it is a nightmare, the powers that be do not know how to interpret and use the results and call all the +ve results an outbreak, complete madness. All this crazy talk about 2nd waves and Covid spikes is all about test results, there is no 2nd wave anywhere until people are dying and hospitals are overwhelmed and that is not happening. 2nd wave?????? not waving but drowning ……… in all the madness.

67509 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Margaret, 3, #453 of 1641 🔗

Recent studies have shown little to no transmission after 6 days. They may be factoring that in but they could also be using a Ouija board for all we know.

67481 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #454 of 1641 🔗

My wife just asked me at dinner:

What would you give to get Boris alone in a dark alley?

Me: I’d beat the crap out of him in front of TV cameras if I could get close enough to him and fuck the consequences.

Her: Can you do this to Gates and all the politicians as well?

Me: let me get a few buddies from lockdownsceptics and the work and tell me where Boris et al will be.

It might have been just the bottle of beer with the pizza talking a she doesn’t drink often, probably her first in 2 months but she is getting more militant daily, soon be worse than me.

67514 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #455 of 1641 🔗

If you happen to be rubbing any bottles in the next few days and get a genie offering you three wishes, drop me a line and I’ll join you for that party.

67780 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 2, #456 of 1641 🔗

Break a bottle, give me the neck of it, I’m in.
I was at St Trinian’s.

67531 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #457 of 1641 🔗

I’d set fire to his pubes.
Just tell me when and where.

67697 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Farinances, 1, #458 of 1641 🔗

Anytime you like. And just below his belly button.

67548 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #459 of 1641 🔗

I’m actually surprised that no one has yet taken a shot at Hancock or any of the others..

67731 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #460 of 1641 🔗

We should dump them in a bad part of London or Glasgow and let the thugs there do their worst with that lot.

Especially Hancock, Sadiq Khan and Cressida Dick.

67486 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 8, #461 of 1641 🔗

After a fairly stiff email to the Coop regarding their mask exemption (non) policy, which I posted on yesterday’s thread, I have finally wrung this response out of them. What a pity they couldn’t say this straight off. Also, I have seen no evidence that they have publicised this policy anywhere.

Anyway, the emphases are mine. I will email them again and seek their assurance that this policy is known to staff and available to customers in all their stores:

‘To clarify the Society’s position, we are in no way enforcing a mandate that would disadvantage people exempt from wearing a face mask . Our colleagues have been explicitly told not to enforce the Government guidelines on facial coverings, but to politely prompt any customer entering the store without a facial covering and direct them to the point of sale message at the entrance.

If the customer responds that they are exempt then that response will be accepted without any further questioning. This approach will reduce the risk of censure from other members of the public as with colleagues aware they can then interject and diffuse any point of tension that may develop . Highlighting the Government’s exemption cards may help some customers, but we are not insisting on their use in any way and respect individual privacy.

I hope this allays your concerns and reassures you that our approach is pragmatic and sensible with the primary objective being the protection and safety of all our colleagues and customers.’

67517 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #462 of 1641 🔗

This has been posted before I’m sure but the government’s own Coronovirus regulations 202 Paragraph 2 state clearly:

‘The government advice is not to challenge people to wear a face covering’

TheCo-op’s waffle is just that: rubbish to try to push mask sales. They are out of order and can be subject to a £5000-£9000 fine.

Send them a copy of these regs. and call their bluff. I’ve just done same to Bettys at Harrogate.

67636 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Harry hopkins, #464 of 1641 🔗

Cheers, Harry. Apart from my not mentioning the mask sales bit, that was basically what I said in my previous email to them (posted on yesterday’s thread). They seemed to have got the point and clarified their policy. I’m sure I’m not the only person to have tried to put them straight.

I’m now trying to get them to say that they will make this clear to their staff and the public.

67765 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Harry hopkins, #465 of 1641 🔗

Go Harry!

67741 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #466 of 1641 🔗

Funny that I had the same run in with the National Gallery about their “face coverings recommended” which I challenged. Then surprise, surprise this dropped in my inbox:

https://www.nationalgallery.co.uk/products/sunflowers-face-mask/p_1050631

https://www.nationalgallery.co.uk/products/a-still-life-of-flowers-in-a-wan-li-vase-face-mask/p_1050632

Given that muzzles are not mandatory in museums and art galleries, I suspected that this recommendations were a push for their latest merchandise.

67487 alw, replying to alw, 1, #467 of 1641 🔗

The Spectator are also at it. Both it and the Torygraph seem immune to its readers scepticism to this whole farce. The tide is turning…
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-warns-of-a-second-wave

67491 ▶▶ Julian, replying to alw, 2, #468 of 1641 🔗

Which way do you think the tide is turning?

67503 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to alw, 4, #469 of 1641 🔗

“In Sweden, more testing saw official Covid rates spike last month but the number of Covid deaths continued a steady decline.”

Translation: If you carry out more tests, you will of course get more positive results. However, despite not being bullied by the rest of the world, deaths rates continue to fall in Sweden.

67541 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RDawg, 2, #470 of 1641 🔗

Latest hospital stats from Sweden, as of this morning:
302 currently in hospital (10 fewer than on Friday), of which 49 are in intensive care (4 fewer than Friday).

Total of eight new admissions of patients with CV-19, spread over 6 regions (1 or 2 in each region).

Thirteen of Sweden’s 21 regions have 10 or fewer hospitalised patients with CV-19, of which 9 regions have 5 or fewer hospitalised patients with the virus.

I’d predict that by next week there will be some regions with *no* hospitalised CV-19 patients…

68177 ▶▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to RDawg, #471 of 1641 🔗

“despite”, I think that should be “because”. The highest deaths in the world, per million, have been places like Belgium which locked down hard and early, not locking down has spared Sweden deaths from all the non-covid conditions which get negleced when countries panic about this cough.

67550 ▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to alw, 4, #472 of 1641 🔗

There have been so many threats of a Second Wave – from BLM riots in cities to the footie crowds in the North – that it is clearly not going to be a Second Wave – it’s going to be a Mexican Wave!

Remember to cheer as it comes by…!! 😎 😄

67778 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Little Red Hen, 3, #473 of 1641 🔗

Barbecues allowed, ‘very dangerous’.
People on beaches, ‘second wave’. ( Ha ha).
BLM mobsters, ‘maybe undoing the good we’ve done’
Pubs reopening, ‘very dangerous places’.

HURRY! LAST CHANCE! GET YOUR SECOND WAVE NOW! ! THESE PRICES CANNOT BE REPEATED! TOMORROW MAY BE TOO LATE!

67499 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, #474 of 1641 🔗

Have we seen anything from John Pretty on here recently?
He’s in Leicester and was getting depressed about it ….

67511 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #475 of 1641 🔗

Not on here but I stuck up for him on OffG a day or so ago. He’d cracked a joke and got 20 down-votes from people with a sense of humour failure. I got a nice reply from him, thanking me.

67528 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #476 of 1641 🔗

Hope he is ok!

67640 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, #477 of 1641 🔗

He seemed in good spirits when he replied to me.

67505 GLT, replying to GLT, 2, #478 of 1641 🔗

The Barry Norris articles Toby has linked to are an excellent summary and fully referenced. Concise and handy to forward to those who might possibly be swayed.

67515 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to GLT, 2, #479 of 1641 🔗

Agreed, one of the most concise and fact-based (especially with the references) summaries that I’ve read.

67506 Little Red Hen, replying to Little Red Hen, 7, #480 of 1641 🔗

Not sure if anyone else has arrived at this theory: the ‘sudden’ decision to quarantine holiday makers returning from Spain, and the subsequent cancelling of flights, package hols, etc by companies such as Tui, is a deliberate plan to make us stay at home, holiday within these shores and spend our money here in Blighty.

They have raised the panic levels again – Spain is a ‘hotbed’ of infection, according to MSM – in the hope that the fearful will staycate at home and spend the money (that Sunak has spaffed at us whilst we were furloughed) right here in the UK.

My sister’s holiday let is SOLIDLY BOOKED FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR! First time ever. All the bookings have been made in the past 5 weeks and ALL are Brits.
So that worked well, didn’t it Mr Sunak / Ms Patel? Kerching! Result!

Also, the announcement yesterday that HMG is struggling to process 400,000 passport applications because of the ‘impact’ of C19 is absolute bollox but it has the same effect as above, ie. don’t apply for / try to renew a passport as it will take months and your valuable documents will be lost in a mire of paperwork.

So we ignored the warnings and applied to renew teenage daughters last week and guess what?….the new one is on its way here as I write. 8 days. No delay at all.
It’s just hogwash to put off the feeble minded from attempting to travel abroad.

Govt. is desperate to see the retail & spending figures up so that the VAST sums spent on this disaster can be recouped somehow. We cannot be allowed pour these huge borrowed sums into other countries economies.

67508 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Little Red Hen, 2, #481 of 1641 🔗

Yes, I can the sense in that

67524 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Little Red Hen, 3, #482 of 1641 🔗

I think it is also to make people want to sign up for the Covi-pass to enable travel without quarantine.. Of course the covi-pass requires vaccination..

67535 ▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to Carrie, 1, #483 of 1641 🔗

Possibly that too in the longer term, but they need us to part with our spondulix now. And to keep it local.
The adverts on the radio are all about getting out and about and holidaying in the UK at the moment. I think it is very deliberate.

67759 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, #484 of 1641 🔗

Why on earth would anybody want such a huge infrastructure for Coronaviruses or any other disease in a sane world.

67668 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Little Red Hen, 3, #485 of 1641 🔗

All these manufactured ‘crises’ and ‘responses’ are total fictions to keep the narrative going when there is less than no evidence to support it.

Bluntly : even given that the earlier responses were no way to deal with an infectious spike, there is now no evidence of an epidemic even. This is a political, not a health, crisis.

67677 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to RickH, 2, #486 of 1641 🔗

It is the money and lobbying of Big Pharma. The Remdezvir vs. Hydroxochloroqine saga proves it. And now Trump has been bought too.

67770 ▶▶ annie, replying to Little Red Hen, 1, #487 of 1641 🔗

Well, to be honest, we in British resorts need the money
Why anybody wants to ‘holiday’ in Fascist Spain just now, beats me.

68229 ▶▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to annie, #488 of 1641 🔗

This is true – our own local businesses need our support.

But it is hard to have a whole lotta fun with the misery of the mask-Gestapo and the shite weather ruining each day.

Maybe in Spain you can just pretend you cannot understand. And you will at least get the sun & a heap of Vit.D.

67510 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 4, #489 of 1641 🔗

Whoa! You guys need to listen to Dr Stella Immanuel in the Frontline Doctors video at about the 2 hour mark! She does not hold back.

67542 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Moomin, 1, #490 of 1641 🔗

Kevin do you have a link to the full video? I watched one but it was only about 40 minutes long.

67557 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Laura Suckling, #492 of 1641 🔗

Thanks Laura

68725 ▶▶▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to Sarigan, #494 of 1641 🔗

No, I’m afraid it’s not – it was earlier (I started watching it), but now it’s gone. And the frontlinedoctors.com website is coming up as ‘expired’. This is really rather worrying. What’s next for the memory hole?

67519 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #495 of 1641 🔗

Be interesting to see what this comes out with:

https://covidsciencesummit.com

It’s being run by Carnival Corporation and the World Travel & Tourism Council to get cruising going again.

Will keep you all posted if they come up with anything interesting or stupid.

67767 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, #496 of 1641 🔗

Cruise ship with a mob of the face-nappied?
Ugh.

67526 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 10, #497 of 1641 🔗

Just posted this on yesterday’s page –

Took OH in to Aldi and Tesco on Sunday, just so she could see there is nothing to be worried about in going shopping sans mask. She spent ages doing clothes, hair and face, just, I suspect, to wind up the maskers. 🙂

Anyhow all went well, except that when waiting outside Aldi, I was harassed by some young chap in his 20s. We were about 12′ apart (!), light to medium breeze blowing, no-one else around.

“Do you have to smoke there ? It’s smells revolting.” Usually I’m ok to move if requested to, but this wasn’t a request.

“Yes, I do. You look like a fucking idiot, but I’m not having a go at you about it.” (He was kitted out in sunglasses, neck mask, poncho, shorts, and big boots.).
He then shuffled off, muttering inaudibly.

I’m only posting this non-event, as it seems to me other internal censors have been ‘removed’ by the recent calls to shame non-maskers. I recall vague psychological arguments about approaching/breaching one taboo, leading on to others. I reckon it is now more ‘ok’ (for some) to shout at strangers in the street.

67569 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to JohnB, 2, #498 of 1641 🔗

In one of my science fiction short story compendium book there is a story where the little switch inside humans that stop the violence when pissed off and that leads normally to a death when things like this happens has been switched off.

Your incident reminded me of that story but in it you would have turned around and killed him, a totally acceptable reaction.

Can’t find it at the moment as the room with my book collection (the library, sounds posh but just a small bedroom that no bed can fit in having 4 bookcases in) is filled with the other room’s stuff while decorating is ongoing but when I can get in there again will have to read it again.

68086 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #499 of 1641 🔗

Did cross my mind, AG, but had my smart ‘going in to town’ clothes on. 🙂

68175 ▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to JohnB, #500 of 1641 🔗

I like to sing at them as I pass, songs about how lockdown was a massive cockup and we need to stand up for liberty instead. easy enough to compose a few rhyming verses on the fly. Good thing about songs is people will hear them, and possibly remember them (see the “rhyme is reason” effect), and you can be pretty loud, but no-one thinks they are specifically being sung at. I remember a passage from a novel I read as a child in which someone a in a tower in a building in occupied Nazi europe has to warn an (english speaking) comrade outside on th ground to watch out for a (german speaking) guard on patrol, the novel agonised about how he can’t shout as the guard would be alerted to look around and find the comrade, he can’t speak as the comrade might hear him, so he sings the national anthem but with words replaced by instructions to the comrade. That bit in the novel has stayed with me, a loudly sung song can convey infromation without the startling effect of a shout.

67530 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 3, #501 of 1641 🔗

This from The Telegraph “coronavirus live feed”:

Half of Brit[on]s going to Spain say they won’t quarantine on return [good!]

In a poll run by Telegraph Travel, more than half of Britons who say they will continue with their holiday to Spain will not go into quarantine on their return.

Here’s what happens [almost certainly won’t happen] if you break FCO or quarantine advice.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/advice/what-happens-if-i-ignore-quarantine-and-fco-travel-advice/

Note the implied threat in the way they phrase things. Is this feed being vetted by our glorious government or something?

67766 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #502 of 1641 🔗

If you’re not working for somebody else you can tell them to go fuck themselves.
If you have an employer, they and you are in the brown and smelly.
It’s called ‘reviving the economy.’

67536 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #503 of 1641 🔗
67570 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #504 of 1641 🔗

The US is a massive country. The number of deaths by State are what you should track. The worst deaths per million have all occured in lockdown states. The Southern States got it later than New York and NJ but will do a lot, lot better fora whole host of reasons, but the fact that they refuse to bow to the lockdown creed is making Fauci and the MSM mad. That is why they are trying ti scare them into it with riduiculous lies and exagerations. We need them to stand firm.

67605 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #505 of 1641 🔗

Lots of states with similar or smaller populations than Sweden, that had lockdowns, have had *more* deaths than Sweden!

67537 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 28, #506 of 1641 🔗

Just had an update from a friend who was really despondent a few days ago driving up to Newcastle and all the hassles with masks at motorway service stations enforced by goon security, all shops in town wanting one, everybody except him wearing one etc.

He did wear the two-six badge with pride he said but felt very intimidated.

On his way back today he says completely different – service stations not bothered, no security at door, shops told him not to wear one as they needed the custom, more non-compliance, even had a few secret smiles, winks and head nods from other mask-free unbelievers so he believed me about the secret signs we are now passing between our selves like an underground movement.

He feels a lot better now, despondency lifting and the black cloud lightened some.

Will meet up with him next week for proper bullshit and a beer.

67565 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #507 of 1641 🔗

That’s good as subject to big nic closing the border or continued fuckwiterry in the country me and the OH are driving from Edinburgh to Kent in a couple of weeks as we can’t be arsed with trains and the hassle. OH was a bit worried about service stations, she hasn’t been out during lockdown, out of choice and also as she doesn’t want to wear a mask or see people wearing masks.

67692 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 1, #508 of 1641 🔗

I never use M way services. Prices are ridiculous, at least, I think they are, cos well, I don’t use them.

I always plan stops at a Wetherspoons if poss. You know what you are getting and you don’t get ripped off. You can easily just use the loo, if that’s all you need. And hardly any coronacrap.

Alternatively, if you are going to need fuel Asda or Morrisons have good prices and poss a cafe. Course, now they have coronacrap to deal with, but we’re tough aren’t we?

67742 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #509 of 1641 🔗

YAY!

67743 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, #510 of 1641 🔗

I think the badge is like a shield, beaming out subliminals.

68035 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Two-Six, #511 of 1641 🔗

Can you link again, 2-6?

68282 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, #512 of 1641 🔗

Yep, but if you want some, get in there fast because I am away for a few days and I will stop the sale later today.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154016480170

67760 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, #513 of 1641 🔗

Great.
Push, push, push it over.

68034 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #514 of 1641 🔗

Came down the M1 on last Friday night. Stopped at a services near Leicester for a comfort break at about 10.30pm. Not many people about, but only saw two muzzled punters. Customers in WH Smith were not wearing masks, likewise the sales assistant, who was perfectly friendly when serving one of them.

67547 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 13, #515 of 1641 🔗

The articles by Barry Norris are sensational. As i wrote to a few fellow sceptics as i posted them the links…’there will be more and more of this stuff coming down the track, the MSM will try and suppress it as much as possible, and wont give airtime to anything but the official narrative, but their problems in doing so will mount until they will start to get a bit worried, and when the truth becomes beyond denial and obfuscation , they will then pretend that they were never ‘sure’ about it all in the first place and that suddenly ‘lots of new evidence’ is becoming available which ‘changes things’. The evidence is there now, you wankers, you just need to look at it. Just like all of those who now claim they ‘never REALLY believed in WMD, or those in Germany who were always against the Nazi’s, and everybody at the BBC who ‘always suspected’ that Savile was a wrong’un but that he was ‘protected by powerful interests’. They will all ine up to try and weedle out of their ludicrous, unthinking, cretinous support of this nonsense. Their heads should be on pikestaffs. .

67604 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Chris Hume, #516 of 1641 🔗

Link?

67676 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Carrie, #517 of 1641 🔗

There are two articles on today’s ‘Round-Ups’ page. The first two.

68215 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Chris Hume, #518 of 1641 🔗

Yes, they are excellent, and devastating. It’s impossible now to keep up to date on reading all the various articles, but these are among the best summaries I’ve read or heard.

For me they are comparable with the Knut Wittkowski interviews of April-May.

Thoroughly recommended for anyone on here.

The hints at vaccine investment fraud seem pertinent and thoroughly plausible.

67559 guy153, replying to guy153, 1, #519 of 1641 🔗

Russian adenovirus vector vaccine (very similar to ChAdOx1) successfully trialled on oligarchs.

The next phase will be non-human primates and if all goes well it should be safe to try it on humans after that.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/russian-elite-got-experimental-covid-19-vaccine-from-april

67621 ▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 3, #520 of 1641 🔗

Would you take a virus if (hypothetically) you were convinced it is safe in itself?

I wouldn’t, because although I’ve never been fanatically anti-vaccine I do operate on a general principle of avoiding medication unless there’s a clear case for it, and as far as I can see this disease simply isn’t a sufficiently prevalent threat even to those in more vulnerable categories. Then again, the same applies to the flu vaccine, which I’ve never taken and perhaps I’ll be persuaded to do so as I get older.

67663 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 1, #521 of 1641 🔗

You mean would I take the vaccine? Not personally. The vaccine itself would very likely be fine, but there is a risk of it causing enhanced Covid-19. This is a small risk (with the ChAdOx1 vaccine, a bit bigger with the Chinese inactivated whole virus vaccines) but it’s impossible to say with certainty that it’s smaller than the risk from regular Covid-19 itself. I may have already had Covid-19 anyway but in any case the chance of catching it now is very low.

But if I was living in New Zealand, Iceland or Taiwan, maybe I would take ChAdOx1 (for personal protection and to save grannies). It would certainly be a tougher call. I wouldn’t have the Chinese one for at least a couple of years to see what happens with it.

67792 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to guy153, #522 of 1641 🔗

If a vaccine means Australia will remove its repugnant ban on leaving this dump so I can finally rejoin my fiancé, then I’m all for it, maybe even take the thing myself (I’ve never reacted to any before, not even the much maligned swine flu one – I’m asthmatic so I generally have the flu vaccine, as some years back in one of the few years I didn’t I caught a nasty flu that was circulating and it developed into pneumonia, and I wasn’t right for months). If we were married I’d doubtless be able to get an exemption to leave, but as that was our intention this year…
…I’m sure you can all see where I’m going with that thought. It’s not to say that I wouldn’t be granted one anyway, but as most of our relationship has by necessity been long distance (he works on cruise ships and is only just this past week in Genoa en route to Southampton after being stuck in Dubai for months), I have no proof that we are in one at all except reams of daily WhatsApp messages, so I am doubtful (and resent the fact that it is required).

67847 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #523 of 1641 🔗

Are you saying they aren’t letting you leave Australia? What’s the rationale they give for that?

67917 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, 1, #524 of 1641 🔗

Probably hasn’t served her full sentence yet …

68310 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to guy153, #525 of 1641 🔗

I’m not a British national (only been resident for a while, but not currently obviously), if I were I’m sure I could. Australian nationals are forbidden to leave the country without an exemption being granted. It’s been the case since April or May. It started as a travel advisory (rethink international travel blah, blah, which I guess is fair enough, though still not really justifiable) but was then converted to a ban a few weeks later because people were still exercising their common sense and going abroad anyway.
No one is allowed in either, without an exemption (like diplomatic types or if someone’s relative is dying), so it is at least consistent, but if they start letting others in without letting locals out, that becomes true dictatorship (I think Cuba has something like that normally – tourists can come in, but Cubans can’t go out without permission).
I don’t recall any attempt at justification, it was just done and that was that. There is nothing that would justify it so anything would have sounded hollow anyway.

67909 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 1, #526 of 1641 🔗

Duh! Yes, vaccine obviously (careless typing and proofing – very annoying)!

OK, fair enough. I think avoiding contact with grannies if you have symptoms is enough, myself. Life isn’t about living forever, either for myself or for others.

67560 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #527 of 1641 🔗

Another WHO (former) bod, Professor Costello, adding to what Dr Nabarro said this morning on Sky. NO to a second wave. This is definitely a change of stance along the WHO nexus (perhaps they are trying to coax the US back as they need the money?). Makes Boris look like a total numpty for what he is now saying about second wave. Also, some interesting stats on Sky – Romania, Bulgaria, much higher positive cases per 100k than Spain. No quarantine of ‘seasonal’ fruit pickers necessary, even if they are living 50 deep in a compound and wandering freely around the nearest Primark!

67602 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #528 of 1641 🔗

Yes, the WHO need the USA’s money.

But it could be a temporary ‘pause’ in ‘the plan’ – read somewhere that the target date for everything AI to be in place is March 31st 2025, so ‘they’ maybe have time to pause things if they think there are too many rebels about…?

67652 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #529 of 1641 🔗

Making de Pfeffel (like Peter Hitchens, I won’t use the more common, matey ‘Boris’ – he is no mate of ours!) look like a total numpty – how could he not?

68174 ▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #530 of 1641 🔗

The point about the fruit pickers is they’re doing much more skilled labour than Boris, Hancock and Raab. If we deport the pickers, no nice meals, if we deport the government, no nasty lockdowns.

67564 HaylingDave, replying to HaylingDave, 34, #531 of 1641 🔗

Some else posted this in the comments section under Carl Vernon’s latest video – I thought it would be nice to share … so true!

It’s just a mask.
It’s just six feet.
It’s just two weeks.
It’s just non-essential businesses.
It’s just non-essential workers.
It’s just a bar.
It’s just a restaurant.
It’s just to keep from overwhelming the hospitals.
It’s just until the cases go down.
It’s just to flatten the curve.
It’s just a few inmates.
It’s just to keep others from being scared.
It’s just for a few more weeks.
It’s just church. You could still pray.
It’s just prayer.
It’s just until we get a vaccine.
It’s just a bracelet.
It’s just an app.
It’s just for tracing.
It’s just to let people know you’re safe to be around.
It’s just to let others know who you’ve been in contact with.
It’s just a few more months.
It’s just some more inmates.
It’s just a video.
It’s just a post.
It’s just an email account.
It’s just for protecting other from hate speech.
It’s just for protecting others from hurt feelings.
It’s just a large gathering but for protests.
It’s just a few violent protests.
It’s just a little micro chip.
It’s just a blood test.
It’s just a test.
It’s just a scan.
It’s just for medical information.
It’s just to store a vaccination certificate.
It’s just like a credit card.
It’s just a few places that don’t take cash.
It’s just so you can travel.
It’s just so you can get your driver’s license.
It’s just so you can vote.
It’s just mail-in voting.
It’s just a few more years.
It’s just a statue.
It’s just a monument.
It’s just a building.
It’s just a song.
It’s just a lyric.
It’s just an anthem.
It’s just a few words.
It’s just a piece of paper.
It’s just a book.
It’s just a movie.
It’s just a TV show.
It’s just a cartoon character.
It’s just a piece of cloth.
It’s just a flag.
It’s just a dog at a protest.
It’s just a religion.
It’s just a holiday.
It’s just your guns.
It’s just the police.
It’s just the military
It’s just your freedoms….gone forever.

And “It’s just” the way they planned it.

67573 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to HaylingDave, 2, #532 of 1641 🔗

Amen brother

67578 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to HaylingDave, 4, #533 of 1641 🔗

It’s been doing the rounds. Still good to see though.

67649 ▶▶ IanE, replying to HaylingDave, 1, #534 of 1641 🔗

And, with each of those lines, one could point out that, what Dominic Raab said over taking the knee, it is actually a symbol of subservience and subjugation – and, as Raab did not say, it is also the next step to a totalitarian Kingdom. No thanks!

67823 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to HaylingDave, 2, #535 of 1641 🔗

It’s just a cattle truck
It’s just a workplace – see that sign? “Arbeit Macht Frei”
It’s just a quick shower before you start work

67580 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 23, #536 of 1641 🔗

Totally unscientific straw poll. I’ve been discussing this with friends. What’s with us sceptics? Is it IQ do you reckon? Or frame of reference? Or background? Or fundamental values?

My little gang of sceptics, two other women I share a daily chat with, we’re all bright. Two of us are arty, but with mensa IQ, one is a PhD scientist with a brain like a planet.

My question really, why are we ‘outliers’? I’ve been quite shocked that mine is a minority opinion, I don’t think I or we are all that unusual as people are we?

Literally my very first response to this was scepticism, and a very clear vision of the consequences, gut wrenchingly visceral actually.

I don’t get why we are the oddballs?

67583 ▶▶ Julian, replying to BecJT, 16, #537 of 1641 🔗

I’m not thick but not specially bright either. It seems to me to take all sorts. Cynicism, curiousity, a dislike of taking silly orders from slimy people, love of life. In my case I wanted to find out for myself the risks I faced, so I could make my own decisions about how to react to the virus.

67588 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Julian, 13, #538 of 1641 🔗

Yeah, I think you are right, I suppose I’ve been really shocked at how angry my opinions make people, I really wasn’t prepared to be in the minority, it all seems so feckin’ obvious to me, but obviously not to most people. I’d have cracked up without you all, it’s quite a lonely position to be in.

67923 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to BecJT, 1, #539 of 1641 🔗

Same here, but remember my favourite quote: ‘Sanity is not statistical’.
And remember Galileo: e pur’ si muove. The truth is the truth, and if a billion other people say it is not so and you say it is, you are right and the billion others are wrong.

67595 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Julian, 8, #540 of 1641 🔗

Just remember, if you are of average intelligence half of everyone you meet is stupider than you.

67643 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #541 of 1641 🔗

Thanks, you’d have to be spectacularly stupid not to get this though!

67585 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to BecJT, 13, #542 of 1641 🔗

You think we are the oddballs?

This is a question that perplexes me daily but I am finding when you dig, more and more are actually sceptical but afraid to admit it.

For me, and I thank my father for it, I was always taught to question everything.

67594 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Sarigan, 9, #543 of 1641 🔗

Ha! Other people seem to think we are outrageous though, I don’t think I’m an oddball, but it’s weird and like you say, perplexing, to be in that ‘camp’. I think my position is entirely reasonable and backed up by facts, it just doesn’t seem to count for a lot. I’ve found it really hard to compute, why we are seen as so fringe.

I don’t have extreme political views, I haven’t lived my life on the margins or anything, I’m fairly ordinary in almost all ways, it’s been quite a shock.

Maybe you’re right, and we’re just a bit braver?

67623 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to BecJT, 10, #544 of 1641 🔗

maybe it’s because we don’t watch ‘love island’, soaps and all the other crap, we have a brain and think for ourselves!!! 🙂

67641 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Sue, 6, #545 of 1641 🔗

I think it’s how we think too, we do seem to come at this, and think about this, and filter information around this in a different way.

67784 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BecJT, 4, #546 of 1641 🔗

I’d go for lots of different reasons.

Not being hooked on MSM is a big factor. Cynicism. Intuition. Life experiences. Upbringing. Important role models when growing up. Intelligence coupled with a strong desire to find things out for oneself. There are loads of factors.

67797 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to JohnB, 5, #547 of 1641 🔗

Yes, very true. Maybe we’re the ‘wise’ ones, our culture doesn’t have much use for wisdom anymore, traded for youth and popularity.

67598 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sarigan, 14, #548 of 1641 🔗

I think you’re right. I’ve said it before, it’s almost as though they want ‘permission’ to admit their scepticism.

Sometimes when I’m feeling wrong side out and don’t care whether I offend someone, I tell customers exactly what I think about this whole crapfest. There have been very few who have rigorously defended the whole lockdown/mask thing. And if they don’t like that I am treating them like human beings, they can bugger off to the cafe over the road and run the gauntlet of the young lad on the door with his black face mask, visor and clipboard.

67601 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 4, #549 of 1641 🔗

Maybe it’s ‘herd immunity’ in the metaphorical sense? We’re not so anxious to be in the middle of the crowd? That’s always been true about me. People do seem to need permission.

67612 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 9, #550 of 1641 🔗

Yes, I think that’s it.

I’ve always been a contrarian. If I don’t agree with something, I will say so, however unpopular it makes me and, boy, has it! At the end of the day, I have to look myself in the mirror each morning.

67616 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to kh1485, 6, #551 of 1641 🔗

‘I have to look myself in the mirror each morning’ was what my dad used to say – never heard anyone else say that, thanks!

67619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #552 of 1641 🔗

i haven’t looked in the mirror since lockdown started … or changed my clothes!! ha 🙂

67669 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to kh1485, 3, #553 of 1641 🔗

Agree, it’s having a moral conscience.
I think that I can argue and demonstrate why the governments policies are morally wrong. It doesnt matter what the government, media, or opinion polls say.
I find it hard to take lockdown zealots seriously. I never felt that way about people in the Brexit debate.

67929 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 1, #554 of 1641 🔗

There’s our kh back on top form! Wonderful!

I was asked for my name yesterday when ordering a cuppa. Was taken aback, but not sufficiently to give my real name.

Since then I’ve been amusing myself thinking of aliases. I think ‘Pessima Dickhead’ is my best so far. I shall tell whoeveritis that ‘Pessima’ has been the well-deserved name of every first-born Dickhead daughter since the Zombie Conquest.

67592 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to BecJT, 7, #555 of 1641 🔗

My expereince is a bit mixed, but if there is a dividing line I would say it is between those who operate in entrepreneurial environments where ideas are challenged, groupthink and acceptance of dogma are not just discouraged but dangerous to the business and economic outcomes and who have a high degree of self reliance. Those who work in big corporates and the public sector tend towards the ‘nanny knows best’ and ‘if the Government says it, it must be true’ approach. That’s my experience, it isn’t uniform but it’s been a good indicator in my peer group.

67607 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Chris Hume, 7, #556 of 1641 🔗

I think you might be right, ‘self reliance’ certainly fits, I think it’s largely personality type or character, and yes I certainly grew up in that environment, and have always been encouraged to argue my corner if I believe something.

I think I have good instincts too, generally my first gut feeling is the right one, and this felt wrong from the off. The facts have just backed that up as time has gone on.

67625 ▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to BecJT, 3, #557 of 1641 🔗

Agreed, It ‘felt wrong’ to me from the off as well. I had exactly the same feeling over the Weapons of Mass Destruction BS as well. I was quite an outlier on that one at the beginning, but one of my biggest doubters on that one is a fully fledged sceptic on this, and says he was amazed that I could hold such a strong view against the grain, and be proved correct. We will be proven so on this. I think the evidence is already clear and in…… They are just denying it and trying to change the story to cover it up. !

67639 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #558 of 1641 🔗

Oh God, the whole war on terror had me in knots. That’s the only demo I’ve ever been on, Stop the War, utterly astonished they’d now managed to link Iraq to the whole insanity. I think time will prove us right too.

67750 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to BecJT, 4, #559 of 1641 🔗

I was there! The second, smaller London demonstration. I’ve a feeling the same entities behind the 9/11 war crimes are behind this crime against humanity too.

67793 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #560 of 1641 🔗

Well Blair does keep popping up to give his opinion..

67811 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Chris Hume, #561 of 1641 🔗

Sorry, but the upper reaches of the Civil Service are full of deeply cynical people. Comes with having to deal with politicians all the time.

67599 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to BecJT, 1, #562 of 1641 🔗

Age? Type of education? IQ?

67609 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Carrie, 3, #563 of 1641 🔗

Yeah I can’t work it out, I think Chris is right and self reliance is more likely. I mean the chaps on sage aren’t stupid IQ wise or uneducated but seem thick as two short planks. Maybe it’s the *way* we think, boffins seem to get stuck in silos of group think?

67614 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to BecJT, 7, #564 of 1641 🔗

It doesn’t appear to be exclusively political leanings either, as I’ve always voted lib dems or Labour, although I feel like there are more right leaning types on here than those my usual ‘team’.

My job is programming, which is very logical work – if x = y then do z. And I have to constantly test and verify work, so maybe that plays a part for me – desire to verify and validate things in a logical way – I absolutely detest being told to do illogical things.

67627 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Mark II, 5, #565 of 1641 🔗

Critical thinking and application of logic. Good points, I think there is something in that. I think a proper understanding of risk is important as well.

67634 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #566 of 1641 🔗

True both. And we’ve discussed politics a lot here, I defo think lockdown has been politicised, sceptism seems a broad church. I wonder if adversity is also something to do with it, without telling my life story, I wonder if hard knocks is part of the self reliance thing? I said to one friend, ‘all these people whimpering about being scared, don’t know they are born’. I found it all a bit pathetic.

67646 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to BecJT, 5, #567 of 1641 🔗

Exactly Bec. the sad thing is, that for many, they don’t realise what is about to hit them. When they lose their jobs and their livelihoods, face all the miseries that entails they won’t be so bothered about the ‘deadly Covid’. I think it is important to try and persuade, and definitely not ‘demonise’ people for not seeing the world the way we do. They will come round and we need them to. We certainly shouldn’t engage in the silliness of calling them thick or frightened rabbits.

67655 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #568 of 1641 🔗

No, true, my friend always says ‘remember the lurkers’. I suppose we have to lead by example, that it’s safe to question all this, and there’s nothing to fear from the virus. I actually think most people aren’t ‘thick’ really, they might not be educated, but they’re not stupid, plus most people are decent, and all this has really just pressed their buttons. I think if we can bring the fear down, they will be able to ‘hear’ what we are saying.

67773 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #569 of 1641 🔗

Definitely – everyone masked and frightened are on the same side as us. All this (and the BLM protests) are created to split us apart – divide and rule. When the storm hits, I’m hoping we’ll realise we’re all on the same side. If and when that happens, the real enemy will realise they are vastly outnumbered. And they cannot win.

The fact that we think and act as we do, in defiance of their rules, already means they cannot win. They can only win if ALL of us become their sheep.

67801 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #570 of 1641 🔗

That’s really important to remember, you are right. We are all on the same side, I try to remember to rein in my cynicism, most people are good.

67824 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #571 of 1641 🔗

Except that Pol Pot won in the short term. Beware complacency

67642 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Chris Hume, 6, #572 of 1641 🔗

Exactly. I don’t need some toss-pot like Hancock telling me what risks I can take. Taken plenty during my time (ocean sailing) and my life has been all the more fulfilling for it. I would absolutely hate, hate, hate a life without risk, what a bloody bore.

67647 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to kh1485, 6, #573 of 1641 🔗

Why is Hancock so despicable? I honesrtly cannot stand that guy. The worst of the worst!

67662 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Chris Hume, 7, #574 of 1641 🔗

He has the air of the school snitch, I think …

67776 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to kh1485, 2, #575 of 1641 🔗

I’ve found out recently I was actually at the same school as him, at the same time (just). If only I could go back in time and warn my younger self…

67931 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #576 of 1641 🔗

… and engage in a spot if preventive assassination, maybe.

68651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DickieA, replying to Mr Dee, #577 of 1641 🔗

I’m another who was at the same school as Hancock – but many years before him. His comments are on the front page of the school website’s”alumni” section. I expect they might struggle for pupils if they don’t expurgate that section.

67650 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 2, #578 of 1641 🔗

The ‘safety’ thing really annoyed me too, life doesn’t promise is us safety, or a civillised society will do what’s necessary to make us ‘safe enough’, we’re not due any more safety than that.

68165 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to Chris Hume, #579 of 1641 🔗

I feel like the only person in my generation who hasn’t fallen for the excesses of health and safetyist bullshit (in general), and my does this panicdemic make it apparent who the box-ticking risk-assessment brandishing braindead are.

67744 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Mark II, 3, #580 of 1641 🔗

I agree that things need to be logical, but I detest being told what to do full stop, to the point that if someone tells me to do something I intended to do anyway I often put it off so it doesn’t look like I did it just because they said so. Contrarianism perhaps, but if I were to pick the most appropriate question word to sum me up, it would certainly be Why? There is obviously no reason to treat this differently to any ordinary minor respiratory virus because that’s clearly what it is, so insofar as I can, I will not comply with their government by cabal.

67761 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mark II, 3, #581 of 1641 🔗

I’ve recently gone beyond the concepts of ‘left’ and ‘right’. They’ve become empty, meaningless abstractions to me. The only thing important politically to me now is justice, truth and humanity.

67940 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #582 of 1641 🔗

Hear hear.
Moreover, I think that combatting Covid Fascism is a single issue of such importance that no other divisions of opinion matter much. There are plenty of people on this site with various ideas that I don’t share, but the heat of battle is not the time or place to squabble. Win the battle, win the war, then we can take up old disputes at our leisure.

68167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to annie, 1, #583 of 1641 🔗

I used to be all sorts of things politically before the panicdemic response wrecked our human rights, now I’m on the side of literally anyone and everyone who is against this lockdown. I might not agree with them all, I think anti-vaxxers for example are quite mad, but I’ll stand alongside any and all of them if it helps get us a civilised non-authoritarian society again.

67850 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to BecJT, 2, #584 of 1641 🔗

I think it may be related to how the lockdown affected your income.If like me,it’s taken away my employment,it certainly makes you question the reasoning behind it all.Most of my friends at work think it is all rubbish.If you are sitting at home furloughed or working for home,then at the moment you are still quite comfortable and you have no need to question the narrative you are presented with.

67876 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 2, #585 of 1641 🔗

But quite a few of us on here are working full time, Jonathan.

67949 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to JohnB, 1, #586 of 1641 🔗

18 weeks no work for me

67606 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BecJT, 3, #587 of 1641 🔗

LSD

67608 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Two-Six, 1, #588 of 1641 🔗

haha, it’s been a while!

67890 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 1, #589 of 1641 🔗

Bad 2-6 !

67610 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 7, #590 of 1641 🔗

Born difficult and cynical I think – first memories of school, about age 7, ‘TT will you ever accept you are wrong’. I am a natural science graduate, married to a natural science graduate, and we both have PhDs in social science areas. We can see the bullshit from all angles in ‘the science’ debate!

67624 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #591 of 1641 🔗

I think my turning point was at high school*. We were told that if we donated a quid to a certain charity, we could wear our own clothes rather than our uniform. I didn’t want to donate to the charity or to be told to, so I went into school in my uniform. Hideous geography teacher humilated me in front of the whole class telling me what a shit I was and threw a pound coin at me. He didn’t do the same to the strapping lad behind me who was also in his uniform. Oh no, much easier to pick on a shy, skinny girl just standing up for what she thought was right. Anyway, strapping young lad stood up for me (will never forget that act of kindness). That little incident is instructive in how I now stand up to bullies.

*This was the kind of crap comprehensive that politicians want for everyone else’s kids but not their own!

67629 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 3, #592 of 1641 🔗

I went to one of those, and was also that girl (plus I was crap at sports and super bright), it was a living hell. Good for you!

67633 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, #593 of 1641 🔗

Oh yes, psycho games mistresses. I was crap at sports (good at running though) but not academic in any way, as my posts indicate!

67672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 3, #594 of 1641 🔗

Your posts do not indicate that at all! God, I wouldn’t be 14 again for all the tea in China!

67654 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to kh1485, 5, #595 of 1641 🔗

Wow that is bad, but well done the boy. By senior school (grammar which went comprehensive) I was a lost cause – non compliance on uniform policy and regularly deemed ‘aggressive’. My dad, himself no fan of authority, often called the school to pick up the pieces – ‘she has nothing to apologise for’ – thanks dad! My mother’s background was helpful too. Her father did bare knuckle fighting on the Quayside in Newcastle, and had a fundamental view that you only ever hit someone your own size, and certainly not children. Discharged from the Burma campaign with polio, and with the use of only one arm, he did not react very well to the teacher demonstrating his caning skills on my mother’s very timid elder brother. The teacher hid in a cupboard when he turned up at the school.

67658 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #596 of 1641 🔗

Yes, like I say, it was an act of kindness I will never forget (I wonder where you are now Carl …).

Your family sound like my mum (a northern thing?). She fought my corner ferociously (I didn’t dare tell her about the geography teacher because I knew she would have punched him!). She once stormed to my infant school after I was hit across my knuckles with a ruler for using my left hand. She did the same to the teacher and asked her how she liked it. She was brilliant my mum …

67816 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to kh1485, #597 of 1641 🔗

Aha, maybe we’re all left handers?

67896 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, #598 of 1641 🔗

All the best people are …

67944 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bruno, 1, #599 of 1641 🔗

I am.
The whole world is set up the wrong way round. It isn’t fair.
Waaah, I want LHLM to pull down every statue of a right-handed person ever erected.

67994 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DomW, replying to Bruno, #600 of 1641 🔗

Another lefty here!

67818 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to kh1485, 4, #601 of 1641 🔗

My younger son is left-handed. He has a sixth sense. Little girl in his class (year one) was in tears – her mother had terminal breast cancer. He went to the teachers desk, got a tissue and took it to her to comfort her. He argues very logically and convincingly – managed to get him and his room-mate upgraded to a better room on the school ski trip, aged 16! Teachers tend to avoid me – they always seem to prefer to talk to the dads and assume the mums will sit there passively at parents evenings. Not so in this household!

67893 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #602 of 1641 🔗

Dai Bando !!

67757 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, #603 of 1641 🔗

Was that teacher Matt the Death? Failed teacher becomes politician?

67790 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, #604 of 1641 🔗

This was donkeys years ago, probably long dead by now.

67626 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #605 of 1641 🔗

My school report aged 7 ‘Bec doesn’t suffer fools gladly’ – I’ve never grown out of that! But I’m entirely different educationally from you, I’m humanities, degree in English, total bookworm, but does mean I have really good empathy, the consequences of lockdown in human terms were just very very obvious.

My work niche, as well as synthesising whopping amounts of new info, and regurgitating it in coherent terms, is the social and health consequences of economic deprivation (I’m a fundraising consultant, so I construct cases for support for why you should care about something, social welfare is my area) so I know, inside out and upside down, what unemployment, or poor educational attainment, or growing up in poverty means for long term outcomes. Horrific, basically.

Probably most significantly, like you, I also absolutely HATE being told what to do, I mean really hate it. Nothing riles me quicker than ‘what you need …’ – they can hardly finish before I say, ‘I’ll be the judge of that ….’ I suppose I was ripe to be a doubting Thomas!

67856 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 2, #606 of 1641 🔗

I grew up in a ‘two-up-two-down’ opposite a well-known council estate. We had tough times when my dad lost his job in the 1973/4 recession, and we never regained the pre-recession level of income. My life was positively luxury compared to the kids in the estate, many of whom I hear about from my mother when I speak to her. When I visit her, I occasionally see some of them. Some of the girls of my age are well on their way to being great grandmas. My parents were ‘different’ – my dad was very bright but messed around at school, leaving with 3 O Levels, my mother left school at 15 with no qualifications.

I was very good at Maths, and had an excellent memory up to about 18. I was the first in my extended family to take A Levels, and go to university. I read facts, and approached O Level English Literature as I did French and Latin – an exercise in remembering facts. Roll forward to the last few years, both sons studying all Humanities at A Level, requiring considerable parental support. That sure was a challenge for us science parents!

67755 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #607 of 1641 🔗

I remember a school report labelling me as “difficult” and a teacher reiterating the same description to my parents. My mum once said that of the three of us (I’m the oldest of three sisters) I was the one she had the most trouble with as I constantly asked “why” and never did what I was told.

I also grew up in a country that’s so corrupt and where the political establishment is pretty much staffed with liars, crooks and psychopaths.

That’s probably why I’ve never brought this whole thing lock, stock and barrel. I have a high bullshit radar.

67807 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #608 of 1641 🔗

My bullshit radar is pretty well tuned too. I always wanted to know why, I hated that thing adults did, ‘because I say so’.

67814 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BecJT, 2, #609 of 1641 🔗

Agree. That’s also another reason why my relatives labelled me as “nonconformist”. I also don’t like being dictated to and I’ve always answered back.

67891 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #610 of 1641 🔗

I also grew up in a country that’s so corrupt and where the political establishment is pretty much staffed with liars, crooks and psychopaths.

The UK ?

67977 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to JohnB, #611 of 1641 🔗

Nope. Somewhere in SE Asia.

68172 ▶▶▶▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to JohnB, 1, #612 of 1641 🔗

I struggle to think of a country anywhere on earth which does NOT fit that descrption.

67611 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 3, #613 of 1641 🔗

Toby and Delingpole discussed this a little on their podcast (link above), from the point of view of conformism and the “four quadrants of conformism” piece he linked a few days back. He made the good point, I thought, that we don’t really need to ask why the worst coronazealots can’t understand the truth – it’s simply that they like the opportunity it provides to bully and boss other people around so much that they willfully blind themselves to countervailing facts and arguments.

Seemed pretty plausible to me, and the answer to your specific question would then be that we here are basically the “aggressive nonconformists” and perhaps a few “passive nonconformists” in the population.

67678 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, 1, #614 of 1641 🔗

Interesting, will have a listen. I also think some people have found it sweet relief to finally collapse into the arms of big brother, with someone finally telling them what to do, I think perhaps it does make them feel ‘safe’ (in the same way some very very dependent people end up in abusive relationships, sitting ducks for their own personal authoritarian, and then say things like ‘but I could never cope on my own’ when they seem to have prodigious tolerance for ‘coping’ with quite horrendous levels of crap).

67727 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to BecJT, 3, #615 of 1641 🔗

I thought straight away that it was quite something that the Government tells everybody not to go to work and stay at home. After all the propaganda they have pumped out for so long about work shy benefit scroungers, all the social shaming they promoted about it. People just kind of went, phew thank goodness, I don’t have to go to work, fine. Couple that with taking any pressure away from claiming benefit which is just horrible. Yay! a 3 month holiday with no social shaming what so ever. Better than that it became vitreous as to how little people were doing while saving the NHS and grannies.

Certainly a big and deeply felt change in attitude. Yes like a hug from big brother and a cheque.

67813 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Two-Six, 1, #616 of 1641 🔗

Yep, I did wonder if we’d chipped away at the social contract for so long (some people work in terrible jobs, terrible conditions, for terrible pay) whether we’d brought it on ourselves. Life is so insecure now, maybe we shouldn’t be surprised that people just opted out and felt no particular loyalty to systems and instutions that give no shits about them?

67882 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Two-Six, #617 of 1641 🔗

For the workshy this has been brilliant.The government doling out money left right and centre.Mortgage rent holidays.No pressure about council tax,overdrafts credit card holidays.
This is the main red flag for me.Someone is going to pay and it’s going to be us and our children and their children.

68786 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Two-Six, #618 of 1641 🔗

A Big Brother Hug. How sweet.

67630 ▶▶ IanE, replying to BecJT, 2, #619 of 1641 🔗

I think it is simply a question of being, if I may coin a phrase, an awkward git. We like to make our own minds up and are probably mostly the sort who will stand up at a meeting and point out alternative ways to interpret any data reported.

67645 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to IanE, 5, #620 of 1641 🔗

That’s why my nom de plume is awkward git, started being one when thrown out of Sunday school for asking why? too much as nothing they told us made much sense and I wouldn’t just believe or take on faith.

Been the same ever since and getting worse.

But found out much that made things a lot more sensible by starting reading the Sumerian epics and moving on from there.

67661 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #621 of 1641 🔗

Quite so – I knew I was taking your name in vain, but hoped it helped make a point. I am probably a bit (but only a bit!) less confrontational than you, but often feel I need to try harder. Respect, sir!

68014 ▶▶▶▶ Graham, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #622 of 1641 🔗

Wish we could meet up to compare how awkward we are! I have been grossly awkward, arrogant and big headed for over 50 years. It’s finally coming in handy.

67631 ▶▶ GLT, replying to BecJT, 5, #623 of 1641 🔗

I laughed when Lionel Shriver was interviewed a while back and said something along the lines that if she was ordered into the lifeboats she’d be asking what had gone wrong with the ship first. I would be the same.
In my observation it is also to do with your ability to calculate and accept risk. I doubt you get many adrenal sport participants in the zealot category.
Lastly there are some who can see through it but choose not to engage with what they can’t change…definitely the lower stress approach but not that of anyone on this site.

67786 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to GLT, 1, #624 of 1641 🔗

I agree, many people just want a quiet life. I grew up with horses, fear was for wimps, my childhood contravened many European safety directives!

67789 ▶▶▶▶ GLT, replying to BecJT, 4, #625 of 1641 🔗

You’ll enjoy listening to the ‘planet normal’ podcast. They are collecting anecdotes from ‘dangerous’ childhoods. My favourite so far was a Joan of Arc game. Luckily parents arrived home as the newspaper under the feet of the tied-up participant was set alight!

67819 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to GLT, 4, #626 of 1641 🔗

I was laughing with my brothers about this the other day, we had a feral childhood by today’s standards. I mean, it’s not many parents who’d send a ten year old out on a pony with no brakes and give you 10p for a ‘phone box’ just in case – there were no phone boxes, we were the middle of nowhere, you’d have to knock on someone’s door, covered in blood and mud, and ask to borrow the phone. The horse arriving home on its own, generally prompted a drive around the lanes to find me (reminds me of the Victoria Wood sketch about the girl who swims the English Channel, she gets lost, her parents say ‘she’ll turn up, she’s got her O Level French’). Or we’d disappear with the dog to go ‘swimming in the river’ and be told to be ‘back for dinner’. Motorbikes, fires, knives, air rifles, rope swings, the lot. It was great! My only embarrassing moment was when I climbed up a massive oak tree at my brother’s cub camp and then was too scared to get down. I can still remember the burning shame as my dad drove up with the extension ladders on the roof rack! A small crowd had gathered.

67907 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to BecJT, 2, #627 of 1641 🔗

Nice post Bec. I’m still a lot like that – quite chuffed when my set of throwing knives arrived recently. 🙂

67632 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to BecJT, 6, #628 of 1641 🔗

I’ve never liked taking orders. If someone asks me nicely to do something, that’s different. But when I get told “do it”……grrrrrrrrr!!!!!
I also like to read facts and form my own feelings, rather than have someone tell me how I should feel about something. Bit of a rebellious streak.
God made many people docile but some others a bit “spikey”.

67635 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to BecJT, 7, #629 of 1641 🔗

To me it just didn’t and doesn’t smell right. If it were that catastrophic there would of been a 5 minute warning and everybody ordered to stay indoors, air raid sirens, media blackout the lot.

I am by nature very cynical and normally scoff at silly Hollywood films (still enjoy them though), James bond and all that bollocks.

If it looks like shit and smells like shit it’s shit.

I was also a debt collector for years so have a pretty good bullshitometer.

67684 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to stefarm, 2, #630 of 1641 🔗

Yep, I had the ‘if it quacks like a duck’ thing from the off too. I like to understand things, so I tend to go and look if something doesn’t make sense. I’ve never been a shrugger!

67657 ▶▶ James007, replying to BecJT, 10, #631 of 1641 🔗

For me it is values. Freedom and liberty are part of what gives life meaning. Everything, including speech is permitted unless there is a reason to not permit it. We should debate and argue these reasons.
We should never have a government inform us what is permitted, and ban everything else. It’s the wrong way round. And we should never have things banned when the reasons haven’t been debated.

What has been done is so severe, it needed a huge justification. We never had one.

Some people think that safety is the principle value now, and should supervine all other values. But everything meaning that I have ever done in my life has had some risk. (When I look back on regrets of the past, it is almost always something I didnt do because I was too scared).
Being scared and risk adverse makes us less free. What is the point of living like that?

Identity is another core value. I used to find part of that in my membership of a community, culture and citizenship, but I’m a bit lost now. I would quite happily emigrate if I could persuade my wife and mother to come too.

All sounds a bit sentimental but that’s what I think.

67666 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to James007, 1, #632 of 1641 🔗

Beautifully and eloquently put, if I may say so. And nothing wrong with genuine and sincere sentimentality.

67682 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to James007, 2, #633 of 1641 🔗

Yes, I agree with all this too, very well put, and the feeling some things are sacred and we must guard them carefully (triggering a massive political evolution personally, as I felt so very out of step with my peers).

67699 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to James007, 5, #634 of 1641 🔗

We are being shifted towards Napoleonic law, where you can *only* do that which is *specifically allowed*, as opposed to being free to do whatever you wish, except what is *specifically prohibited* by the law – and there is a big difference between these two…

67781 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Carrie, 2, #635 of 1641 🔗

Well, I’m marching with Wellington. A pox on Old Boney.

68044 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to James007, #636 of 1641 🔗

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

I’m assuming a limited take up on this reference.

67659 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to BecJT, 9, #637 of 1641 🔗

Hating being told what to do. Hating being patronised. Hating being treated like I’m too stupid to make up my own mind. Hating feeling controlled!

67679 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #638 of 1641 🔗

Yes to all of those!

67680 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, 3, #639 of 1641 🔗

Actually, scared of being controlled, more scared of that than death, it turns out.

67965 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to BecJT, #640 of 1641 🔗

Yes, totally agree. I could just have easily written “hating feeling out of control”. Out of control of the most basic things in life, like leaving my own house and seeing my own family, or going to buy food without having to cover my face. Knowing all this and more can be taken away from me with zero notice, at any time and for as long as they want. It’s terrifying.

67686 ▶▶ Hoppy Uniatz, replying to BecJT, 4, #641 of 1641 🔗

What makes a sceptic? I don’t think there’s any glib answer. We’re all different, we’ve all grown up with different experiences. I don’t know if anyone can say they were born a sceptic. How would you know?

The sceptics who I know come from wildly different backgrounds: a self-employed scaffolder, an engineer, a civil servant, a solicitor, a Big Issue vendor, a man doing 7 years in prison. The best sceptic blogger I read is cattle farmer Joel Salatin. For myself it’s probably just a case of borderline autistic spectrum – saw Michael Levitt crunching the numbers in March and thought “yeah that makes sense”.

67799 ▶▶▶ GLT, replying to Hoppy Uniatz, 1, #642 of 1641 🔗

Yes, that’s true too. Autism is a long-standing family trait, mild in some more severe in others. I think it allows you to separate logic and fact from emotion. Completely immune to the ‘if it saves just one life’ lie….

67705 ▶▶ janis pennance, replying to BecJT, 1, #643 of 1641 🔗

Its odd, i’ve always been the same , I always have to know why ? Said who? always have to spend time going to the next stone to peek under . Plus I reckon some folk just have a logical mind , which strangely ties in with art . If something doesn’t “look right” visually , I can spot it a mile off . And if something makes no sense , doesn’t look right reading something it just smacks me in the face. I’m far from brainy but i’m dogged in looking for the reasons and the truth .
Better than Eastenders by a long chaulk

67875 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to janis pennance, #644 of 1641 🔗

I say ‘says who?’ a LOT! I agree it ties in with art, for sure. We all seem quite similar in that regard.

67736 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to BecJT, 1, #645 of 1641 🔗

I think with me, it’s because I question everything. I’m curious. I love truth and hate lies. And if something is simply nonsense, I don’t see why I should have to accept it, even if the majority do. I also don’t care what other people think of me or say about me behind my back.

67861 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mr Dee, #646 of 1641 🔗

I’ve got better at that since I’ve got older, a couple of friends have really hurt me in their response to me over this though, I was quite shocked we were so far apart.

67763 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to BecJT, 3, #647 of 1641 🔗

I used to tell my sons as teenagers that it was easy to go along with the crowd, but far more difficult to stand up against it and be counted. It stood them in good stead. They have both being doing their bit for scepticism on their WhatsApp group and of course have been shouted down for doing so. It will come right for them in the end though.

67859 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Margaret, #648 of 1641 🔗

I agree, I have felt morally we are on the right side of this, even if lockdown does save lives, it COSTS and we have an obligation to talk about that.

67870 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to BecJT, #649 of 1641 🔗

perhaps we are more willing to take responsibility for our actions, be accountable and are more self reliant…less willing to be a victim?

67952 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, #650 of 1641 🔗

I think it’s that once something seems a bit off and you stop to scrutinise it, if you’re right, then it’s like you take a step back.
From this more detached perspective, it’s easy to see the flaws in the argument.
My Damascean moment was the infamous tank on the runway at Gatwick. I’ve never taken news at face value since.

It does help to have alternative sources of information available. That’s why the current censorship is so worrying – though it definitely proves we sceptics are onto something!

As Icke said many years ago: “If I’m talking a load of bollocks, why do they go to so much trouble to shut me up?”

68163 ▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to BecJT, #651 of 1641 🔗

I wory about where all the lockdown sceptics are, they just don’t seem to exist among those people I know and encounter. And I’m really worried about where the rest of them are in my profession (university researcher in a physical, not medical or biological, science), no colleagues seem to recognise the truly tiny level of risk the virus poses, everything I hear from everyone is patronising rubbish about “keeping safe”. is there no-one on my neck of the woods interested in keeping FREE?

67584 Dave #KBF, 17, #652 of 1641 🔗

Retail Report

Medium sized Boots the chemist branch.

Wife walked in unmasked walked around to buy what she needed, everyone other than her masked up, security guard was wearing a welders type face shield.

One a positive noone, either staff or customers said a word to her about not being masked..

67587 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 6, #653 of 1641 🔗
67660 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Jonathan Castro, 8, #654 of 1641 🔗

Face masks can now be added to the list of mandates that make you stupid. As if Piers Morgan feverishly promoting them weren’t evidence enough, here are the facts on why you absolutely, categorically should not wear a face mask. They make you suggestible; they make you more likely to follow someone else’s direction and do things you wouldn’t otherwise do. In short, they switch off your executive function – your conscience.

67725 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to stefarm, 3, #655 of 1641 🔗

They are dehumanising and demeaning for starters. And no doubt mandating them in any circumstances is in violation of some section or another of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, let alone any national similar Acts or Charters.

67775 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #656 of 1641 🔗

Not trying to bore people to death on this, honest, but any Declaration, Act, Charter, Convention, or Constitution without the right to bear arms is waste paper. Sadly.

67865 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stefarm, 2, #657 of 1641 🔗

I think that’s why masks are being pushed at schools – brainwash kids early. Simon Dolan is thinking of starting schools without masks etc – interesting thread on his Twitter feed right now. Everyone very keen – so far the thread has not been hijacked by the pro-mask brigade!

68793 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Carrie, #658 of 1641 🔗

What happened to Summerhill?

67695 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #659 of 1641 🔗

Please can someone with Twitter post this and send to Peter Hitchens? He’d love it, plus he has lots of followers!

67916 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #660 of 1641 🔗

Quote:

‘The point of face masks is not to protect humans, but to diminish humanity – to rob people of their ego, their identity, and their autonomy.’

Actually, face rags aren’t needed to make people stupid, because most people are stupid to start with, and those who aren’t are currently doing their best to become so. The object is indeed and solely to dehumanise.

67933 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to annie, #661 of 1641 🔗

“….To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.”

67589 Laura Suckling, replying to Laura Suckling, 2, #662 of 1641 🔗

Fantastic podcast with Dr John Lee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDEljJ6qyBc

67771 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Laura Suckling, 1, #663 of 1641 🔗

Sorry, off topic, but I can never see that guy’s name without thinking ‘Babbacombe’ ……

67591 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 25, #664 of 1641 🔗

Local garage just now: a lot more people not wearing masks, including the attractive checkout woman 🙂

67707 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Jonathan Castro, 13, #665 of 1641 🔗

A spot of bare-face action tonight in the local chippy and onestop. Easy peasy. Managed to converse with a young lady who forgot her mask, said it was OK to go in the chippy without one, she is exempt, everybody is, explained the law and in she went. YAY! Got some surprised looks in the one stop, a bit of cognitive dissonance going on with the nappy-faces. LOL fuck em.!

67593 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 49, #666 of 1641 🔗

I went to Morrisons last night. Only one other person was not wearing a mask (staff were all wearing!), but I wasn’t challenged and no one said anything, although notably the people I watched leave ALL took their masks off as soon as they exited the main door.

Today I (fiinally!) went to get a hair cut at the hairdresser I’ve been going to for decades. It feels S-O-O much better now! At the entrance a very nice masked young woman.
‘Can I take your track and trace details please?’
‘No, I’d rather not’
‘You’ll need to wear a mask’
‘No, I’d rather not’
‘Do you have one?’
‘No’
‘We have them here, 50p each’
‘No, I don’t want to wear one thank you’
‘Er, OK, can you sanitize your hands please?’
‘No. I’m happy to use soap and water but I won’t use sanitizer’

At that point she said ‘Take a seat please’ (tape across all the seats to force distancing while waiting) but before I could sit down one of the hairdressers was available.

On the way out I did say to her that I hoped she didn’t think I was rude to which she said no and it was just what they were being told to do. I told her my degree was in Microbiology (true) so my take on this is very different.

I’m going to start asking people WHY they are so afraid to see what response it gets. It is such a strange experience though being the mask rebel!

DavidC

Oh, and the staff at my local SPAR continue to be pragmatic and brilliant! bless them!

67721 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to DavidC, 7, #667 of 1641 🔗

I’ve been thinking about asking people why they’re wearing masks, with a caveat that an answer ‘because the government says so’ is not acceptable. It’s as ridiculous as if the government told everyone they would draw lots and anyone drawn would have to jump off a bridge – no one would just accept that, and nor should they just accept this. Understanding why could be the key to stopping compliance.

67603 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #668 of 1641 🔗

The Scottish Sun: Vile moment masked man confronted after being caught taking poo in Highland lad’s garden.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5861938/poo-garden-masked-dingwall-highlands/

67618 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #669 of 1641 🔗

“Poo-garden-masked-dingwall-highlands”

67905 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #670 of 1641 🔗

Here’s a first-rate opportunity
To go poohing with impunity…

67613 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 24, #671 of 1641 🔗

Having been using TFL’s services both for work and Mr Bart and I’s “staycation”, I have been disturbed by their announcements regarding mandatory muzzling. Today was the worst as we heard the same announcement over the span of 5 minutes. So have just sent this off to TFL:

I would like to complain about your public announcements regarding face coverings. On our way to Stratford, the announcement was played twice within the span of 5 minutes. The wording and the frequency of the announcement is manipulative and constitutes as harassment of people who are not unable to wear the face coverings for reasons of health whether physical or psychological.

This is not the only time I have felt harassed and uncomfortable over your announcements as I have encountered the same ones during other journeys.

Perhaps you should practise what you preach in your new adverts about showing consideration and amend your announcement and lessen the frequency of announcing them over your PA system.

67664 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bart Simpson, 12, #672 of 1641 🔗

Lessen the frequency to zero, ideally.

67690 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tenchy, 3, #673 of 1641 🔗

Exactly. That would be so much better!

67704 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 11, #674 of 1641 🔗

This PA messaging is just incredible, so Orwellian. A constant drip drip drip of brainwashing. I bet even North Korea doesn’t have this shit. The bastards.

67756 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Two-Six, 3, #675 of 1641 🔗

Agree. Even my husband noticed it and was really irritated, hence why we decided that enough was enough and we complained.

68795 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Two-Six, #676 of 1641 🔗

Droplets of propaganda and brainwashing.

67620 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 4, #677 of 1641 🔗

Just found this in The Guardian’s live feed:

And, while we are on the subject of coronavirus figures, the tables here, on the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control’s website, provide a good guide to how the situation in the UK compares with the situation in EU countries.

On the new cases measures, there are several countries doing a lot worse than the UK. For example, Spain has its 14-day cumulative number for new cases running at 47.2 per 100,000, while in the UK it is 15 per 100,000.

But on deaths (a lagging indicator, because people who do die from coronavirus tend to die several weeks after getting infected), only two countries are doing worse than the UK. Its 14-day cumulative number of deaths is running at 1.4 per 100,000. The only countries doing worse are Sweden and Romania, both on 1.6 per 100,000.

Based on death data in Wikipedia (it’s apparently referenced to reliable sources), my calculations show the figures given for the UK and Romania are just about correct (population 67.8m and 19.2m respectively). However, for Sweden (population 10.1m) I calculate a rate per 100,000 of 0.45, not 1.6. Anyone care to verify if my calculations are correct, or if the source data is incorrect – it’s based on 45 deaths for Sweden over the last 14 days. Perhaps this is yet another attempt to show Sweden in a bad light?

67734 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tenchy, 8, #678 of 1641 🔗

Sweden and HCQ are not allowed to succeed at any cost.
Otherwise, the whole case for lockdowns, vaccines etc. breaks down and the biggest mistake and crime committed ever by global governments, the media and ‘scientists’ in peace times would become obvious and prosecuted.

68067 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #679 of 1641 🔗

It will become obvious. Prosecutions will take a bit longer I’m afraid.

68065 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, 2, #680 of 1641 🔗

It’s all out against Sweden, and the EU, UK govt, British and European MSM will do and say anything to put Sweden in the worst possible light. The truth will out in the end.

67637 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 17, #681 of 1641 🔗

jUst had a discussion with someone called worried1 on the Daily Fail comments who tried to tell everyone my comment about Whitty saying lockdown was unnecessary was outright wrong – their nom de plume says it all really.

My last reply:

“Positive test means nothing, it only means the test has picked up viral material in the sample. You do not have the illness nor are ill. Research it yourself, the information about PCR tests is freely available on the internet, not on sites like this, BBC, Sky, ITV etc. The test has a false positive rate of about 5 %, the actual UK positive rate is currently between 0.33-0.5% so it is possible that no-one has actually had a real positive test result. Again, research it and become a free thinking person, not a sheeple regurgitating propaganda nonsense.”

I expect them to shut now or go mental but think it’s a paid troll or 77th.

67702 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Awkward Git, #682 of 1641 🔗

NICE ONE!

67899 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #683 of 1641 🔗

I keep saying to people: “Do you feel ill?”

“No.”

“Then you’re not ill. Why, suddenly, does someone telling you you are make you think you are?”

67651 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #684 of 1641 🔗

Simply : Covid is a political, not a viral infection.

67673 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 6, #685 of 1641 🔗

Yes. Those who are badly infected may be beyond help. Others with milder infections may eventually be curable with sufficient exposure to facts, combined with tempting them with the resumption of sex, drugs and rock’n’roll.

67701 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, #686 of 1641 🔗

YAY!

67665 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #687 of 1641 🔗

Should have been brought to a close three weeks after initial lockdown, 23rd March, but here we are thanks to johnson! four months on and no end in sight. (Sorry July).

67709 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to karenovirus, 4, #688 of 1641 🔗

Or at latest on 1 June, when the LSE Centre for Economic Performance (Gus ODonnell et al) calculated that the costs of lockdown, in quality life years, outweighed the benefits (Occasional Paper 49).

67667 goldhoarder, replying to goldhoarder, 5, #689 of 1641 🔗

It would appear that they have shut down the website. The USA is in for hard times. https://www.americasfrontlinedoctors.com/

67671 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to goldhoarder, 6, #690 of 1641 🔗

This is just unbelievable. Still, I think the horse has well and truly bolted. This video is going to be shown all over the place.

67729 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Chicot, 9, #691 of 1641 🔗

Suspending DJT Jr’s account should help it spread.
The amount of vitriol and personal diffamation against the doctors is horrendous and most disgusting.
The narrative of the ‘fact checkers’ is just adapted by the MSM, despite the many stories published now debunking the 3 negative, misdirected or even faked trials, while the many positives and even Yale Prof. Risch’s endorsement of the doctors narrative in yesterday’s Newsweek magazine are completely ignored.
Comments as such by me in forums at the MSM were censored.
This is now not just involuntary manslaughter anymore, but premeditated mass murder by the MSM and the governments ‘scientists’.

67687 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to goldhoarder, 2, #692 of 1641 🔗

Oh my god!!!!

Squarespace have cancelled them!

https://americasfrontlinedoctors.com.ipaddress.com/

67747 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #693 of 1641 🔗

not sure if this is the one –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aX_Q1FaY9pI

67758 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #694 of 1641 🔗

Stella Immanuel !

67670 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 5, #695 of 1641 🔗

You know how the powers that be keep going on about a “second wave” sweeping across Europe? “Second waveitis” seems to be reaching a crescendo this evening. What I’d like to know is:- assuming we have this “second wave”, will there be a third wave? What’s to stop fourth and fifth and sixth waves? Who officially declares a new “wave”, as opposed to outbreaks of infection in the tail end of the preceding wave? Any thoughts on this?

67675 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Gillian, 13, #696 of 1641 🔗

If you believe the nonsense the danger will always be there because immunity doesn’t last, the vaccine won’t be 100% effective and will need booting every year, and even people who show no signs of being ill can spread it. It’s the perfect disease with which to control people through fear. They’ll just shift what defines a case, or wave, to suit them – they are already doing that.

67703 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Julian, 2, #697 of 1641 🔗

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you’re always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what’s that sound
Everybody look what’s going down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY

67693 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Gillian, 1, #699 of 1641 🔗

Not waving but drowning in lock-down nonsense.

67694 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Steve Martindale, #700 of 1641 🔗

TS Eliot?

67715 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Gillian, 1, #701 of 1641 🔗

Stevie Smith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY
She had a bit of a death theme to her work so what she would have made of Covid we can only guess?

67723 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #702 of 1641 🔗

… but Eliot would have recognised the Waste Land and the Hollow Men.

67714 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Gillian, 12, #703 of 1641 🔗

Patient: Doctor when will this pandemic end?
Doctor: How could I know? I am not a politician

67722 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Gillian, 8, #704 of 1641 🔗

You have to be a bit dim not to suss that the ‘fiction extensions’ like ‘Second Wave’, ‘Local Spikes’, ‘Foreign Travel Quarantine’ etc.etc. are just an extension to the original big lie about a pretty ordinary infection.

67740 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to RickH, #705 of 1641 🔗

Spot on Rick.

DavidC

67738 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Gillian, 1, #706 of 1641 🔗

There will always be ‘a wave’. The virus is now in the system regardless of how many or how few are affected. It’s a virus! Each year the politicians will say ‘Coronavirus’ or ‘Covid’ and the cowering masses will cower once again. despite the fact the coronaviruses have been around for donkeys’ years.

DavidC

67681 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 4, #707 of 1641 🔗

Apologies if this has already been posted but this is a must-watch talk. Quite long but every minute worthwhile:-

https://youtu.be/6RDffMCAujg

67991 ▶▶ matt, replying to Gillian, #708 of 1641 🔗

This is quite, quite brilliant. The whole thing is worth watching, but if you don’t want to, the last 5 or so minutes is very powerful.

67691 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 15, #709 of 1641 🔗
67710 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Humanity First, 3, #710 of 1641 🔗

Good for them!

67749 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 1, #711 of 1641 🔗

Yeah.

67696 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 16, #712 of 1641 🔗

Brilliant ! I saw this in Lewes this afternoon – highly encouraging !

https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/024035699373/media/1673487085240474/medium/1595961697/enhance

(The scruffy label below it is one of mine. But now I shall print, laminate, and fly-post this poster wherever I can. 🙂 ).

67698 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to JohnB, 1, #713 of 1641 🔗

Nice One!

67708 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 2, #714 of 1641 🔗

Fabulous – who is producing these and where can we get them?

67717 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 2, #715 of 1641 🔗

Those were my reactions too ! 🙂

Not got a clue, so will be using the photo.

68037 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, #716 of 1641 🔗

Might we be able to send this to Simon Dolan and/or Toby? Surely one of them could arrange production of a poster like this that we could buy and put up…

68091 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, #717 of 1641 🔗

Have sent to Toby.

68298 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #718 of 1641 🔗

and to Simon.

67700 Bart Simpson, 9, #719 of 1641 🔗

The shit will hit the fan as the unemployment rate and bankruptcies soar. October will be the bare minimum as that’s when the furlough scheme ends but it could start earlier as the retail and hospitality sectors are hammered further.

I get the feeling that the backlash is already beginning – the mandatory muzzling has not exactly gotten people out and about and crucially spending money. Sunak’s Eat Out to Help Out I think will be another massive failure.

67712 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #720 of 1641 🔗

https://twitter.com/HaraldofW/status/1288172798129713155/photo/1
The end result of the pandemic in Sweden (so far). Data you cannot cheat. Total death and comparing 2020 week-1-28 with mean value 2015-2019 week 1-28 comparing age group.In the working age and school age(under 65) you cannot notice the pandemic. In fact deaths in this age group is lower. This is proof that this is a geriatric pandemic and should have had targeted actions. Can you imagine a more destructive way than locking down a country, shutting schools, stopping people working , locked in their homes instead of innovating ideas of protecting the elderly instead?There is another amazing thing but more preliminary (week 27-29) same as above comparing 2015-2019
https://twitter.com/HaraldofW/status/1287998077404680193/photo/1
During week 27 through 29 Sweden have seen ca 260 fewer deaths than the average number of deaths year 2015-2019. Also worth mentioning again, ALL age groups below average during these weeks!
This is data from the end of pandemic. Interesting to see the whole year data. If this trend continues it could mean that the elderly in the pandemic would have died anyhow a few months later just what Prof Giesecke said from the beginning. Sweden death statistics is probably one of the most reliable in the world. In Sweden this was a geriatric pandemic and most likely in other countries at least in Europe.

67782 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #721 of 1641 🔗

As someone resident in Sweden I can confirm that their death stats are likely to be very accurate. Swedes are sticklers when it comes to bureaucracy! Also due to the ‘personal number’ system, people’s ages at death will be correct.

67716 Simon Dutton, replying to Simon Dutton, 6, #722 of 1641 🔗

The excellent Anna Brees has been posting short videos about CV made by viewers of her channel . This one is exceptionally good, but they are all worth watching for encouragement and feelings of solidarity. I do believe scepticism is rapidly on the rise; maybe the bad guys won’t prevail.

67805 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Simon Dutton, 3, #723 of 1641 🔗

They will keep pushing as far as they can until people stand up and push back.

67881 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Two-Six, 1, #724 of 1641 🔗

Newton’s Law. They’d better watch out!

67837 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Simon Dutton, 2, #725 of 1641 🔗

Anna is also doing work for the Keep Britain Free group.

67941 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Simon Dutton, #726 of 1641 🔗

wow that was a powerful heart felt speech by that guy! Worth a 7 minute listen.

67718 Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 4, #727 of 1641 🔗

I watched all of the video (nearly 3 hours, I made chutney at the same time) of the press conference with America’s Frontline Doctors (and I too discovered the site has been taken down). It is well worth watching. I shared it on my Facebook page and am just waiting for my eldest son (bless him…) to jump in with some opposing comments. Later I googled something about the video and came across a BBC website page where it said they “claimed to be doctors”!! I can’t find it now….

67880 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 2, #728 of 1641 🔗

I googled the UCLA one to check and he is definetely legit.
The defamation, in particular of Dr. Emmanuel, is disgusting but was sadly to be expected.

But she/they said nothing different than what Yale’s Prof. Risch stated a day before in his Newsweek article!
And they didn’t dare yet to suspend him or Newsweek….

67724 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #729 of 1641 🔗

Pick the only non-lockdown country in South America in this chart
https://twitter.com/FrankfurtZack/status/1287848573183447040/photo/1

67753 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to swedenborg, 2, #730 of 1641 🔗

I really wish someone in the MSM, ideally on TV, would take material such as this and plonk it down in front of the likes of Hancock, Johnson and those bloody “experts” and say “How do you explain that”, followed by “and how do you explain Sweden”. What’s the chances of that happening? Zero?

67879 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #731 of 1641 🔗

Hancock and Johnson know already.

What’s needed is for the MSM to present this sort of information non-stop to the public, instead of the fear porn propaganda.

67992 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #732 of 1641 🔗

We know they know because of the unceasing propaganda about how wrong Sweden’s approach has been…

67733 swedenborg, 1, #733 of 1641 🔗

Interesting illustration of asymptomatic cases going up in Germany (a country that might soon be on the quarantined list of the UK).How stupid of Spain to include serology positive results in their total number of cases.
https://twitter.com/FrankfurtZack/status/1288086381777039367/photo/1

67735 RickH, replying to RickH, 18, #734 of 1641 🔗

I am finding that the worst aspect of this insanity is not government actions, but relatively sane people who don’t much believe the propaganda, complying with the diktats on the basis that they ‘Don’t want to make people feel uncomfortable’.

Of such compliance is fascism made.

67737 ▶▶ GLT, replying to RickH, 7, #735 of 1641 🔗

There’s another group who are in the ‘don’t worry about what you can’t change’ camp.

67806 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to GLT, 1, #736 of 1641 🔗

Yes those are the ones around me by and large. Not particularly bothered by anything because they are financially comfortable.

68012 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to GLT, #737 of 1641 🔗

I know a lot of people in that camp. Relatives and good friends. These are the people who are most likely to see genuine fury.

67762 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to RickH, 5, #738 of 1641 🔗

They seem to actively like outsourcing their opinions/thinking to the main stream media to decide for them. Kidults instead of adults, does make me wonder HOW these folk hold down jobs, have relationships, decide financial decisions etc. Very very depressing.

67769 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 2, #739 of 1641 🔗

See the film about masks making people stupid!

67987 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, #740 of 1641 🔗

Should be more a case of push the envelope a bit. It’s the only way to get ANY semblance of normality back. I don’t think it helps that this mask thing is actually law…

68009 ▶▶ matt, replying to RickH, 4, #741 of 1641 🔗

Guilty. In late March and April I made a point of giving people a lot of space, not because I gave a damn, but because I wanted to make people feel comfortable. I followed the “rules” because those were the rules. Not because I thought they were useful, just out of politeness. I started ignoring social distancing and letting it be everyone else’s problem a couple of months ago and then started plainly breaking the actual rules/guidelines not long after that. Masks were the last straw. Screw you. I defy you to fine me.

68074 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to RickH, #742 of 1641 🔗

Agreed, it’s very disconcerting.

67748 DThom, 2, #743 of 1641 🔗

My First post although have been looking at the site for some time
Thought my mask-less shop visits may be of interest
Local News/grocery shop no mask challenge muzzles 50%.
Morrisons and M & S no challenges but 95% muzzles.
Small local garden centre had a sign pointing out government orders and offering masks for sale if you did not have one. Finished by stating no mask no entry! Went in anyway and no challenge.
Tesco today but no challenge again 95% muzzled.
Boyes department store challenged by a rather large lady asking if I had a mask – replied that I was exempt – OK.
Pets at home was big disappointment. Young female assistant asked if I had a mask. Thought about pointing out risk she was taking under the equality act but just showed her my exempt pass.
Generally no major challenges but sad % of muzzles. How will we stop this stupidity!

67751 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 17, #744 of 1641 🔗

Happy to report that in the local chippy takeaway in a Northern town where we are staying it was 95% unmasked in apparent defiance of the law.

67791 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to OKUK, 5, #745 of 1641 🔗

People up north sound very sensible…

67804 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #746 of 1641 🔗

I like to think I am. Care to say where, OKUK?

67831 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #747 of 1641 🔗

thanks, we are…

67844 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Azoumi, 2, #748 of 1641 🔗

You are…

67862 ▶▶▶ EllGee, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 2, #749 of 1641 🔗

Went to the Post Office today-not quite Up North but certainly not Down South-and the person in front of me had a face, as did the girl behind the counter. As I was leaving I thanked somebody who stood to one side at the door……they had a face as well.

67904 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to EllGee, #750 of 1641 🔗

Faces rule!

67754 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 7, #751 of 1641 🔗

Returning to the
Snappy Slogans theme: “Masked now, shackled later. “

67768 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, 4, #752 of 1641 🔗

Or ‘Masked now, chipped later’

67764 Stephen, replying to Stephen, 14, #753 of 1641 🔗

The Frontline Doctors are the best.

At nearly every breakthrough point in history, medical orthodoxy has been wrong.

I am not a scientist and cannot devote the time to follow all of the arguments for and against the various paraphernalia associated with this crisis.

But, the fact that orthodoxy wants to silence these guys tells me that they must be right!

It’s one of the lessons of most periods of history.

67873 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Stephen, 1, #754 of 1641 🔗

All truth goes through 3 stages…
and
Science advances funeral by funeral…

67785 Doodle, replying to Doodle, 13, #755 of 1641 🔗

I sometimes wear this, sometimes a different one and sometimes just a badge, you know for the larf.

Works for me.

67795 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Doodle, #756 of 1641 🔗

Great t-shirt!

67796 ▶▶ Adam, replying to Doodle, 3, #757 of 1641 🔗

Where did you get that Tee-shirt, if I may ask. Think I want one!!

67787 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #758 of 1641 🔗

Without offering up her own grotty self Sturgeon pleads for volunteers to take the oxford vaccine. So a politician marketing for private enterprise – that alone tastes unpleasant.

Some clever wags below suggested scotland has no corona but evidently there’s enough invisble death out there for a robust testing of the vaccine. Get them the results they need of an effective vaccine.

What an absolute heap of **** this truly is. Marketing requires each country to offer up its’ champions so we all feel warm and fuzzy about the vicious untested chemicals they want to slam into us. Sturgeon is as evil as the rest.


Nicola Sturgeon said: “You have heard us talk before about how we’ve all got a part to play in tackling this virus and that’s very true…

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/nicola-sturgeon-pleads-scotland-sign-18675605

67802 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 2, #759 of 1641 🔗

I may very well have the vaccine.

Two years down the line. If all of them have it first.
(I bet you, once it rolls out, it will be very hard to discover how many of our dear leaders have had it themselves. Not many, I’ll wager. Boris will probably be lamb to the slaughter because he’s already had it, forced out to get pricked in front of the cameras to set ab example)

67835 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 5, #760 of 1641 🔗

There is no way any politician will be jabbed with the same stuff they inflict on us. Wouldn’t put it past them to pretend to, but what’s in their syringe will merely be a placebo to try and fool the masses…

67843 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 2, #761 of 1641 🔗

I’m for the execution scene from flash gordon. Each politician in a covid pub-pod greenhouse for a publuc televised vaccination.

The only glitch in my fantasy is the very point carrie points out.

67853 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #762 of 1641 🔗

It’ll be a bit like when John Gummer (?) made his daughter eat a burger on camera, during the BSE ‘scare’…

67860 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #763 of 1641 🔗

Yes that, or the Iranian embassy hostage seige!

68024 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, #764 of 1641 🔗

John Selwyn Gummer. NB the Selwyn was only added after he attended Selwyn College Cambridge.

I knew his son a bit. Oiliest little tick I’ve ever met in my life. CJD would have been a good excuse, but he wasn’t the one fed a burger.

67868 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Carrie, 1, #765 of 1641 🔗

Agree.
The only way to ensure this, and we should insist, is a group vaccination with one politician/oligarch attending at the same time, and the syringes being allocated randomly, with the politician/oligarch’s being swapped randomly again against a randomly chosen person’s 5 seconds before its adminstration.

67871 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jay Berger, #766 of 1641 🔗

They’d all be placebos.

68156 ▶▶▶▶ PlaceboTime, replying to Carrie, #767 of 1641 🔗

A placebo would be good enough for everyone, if I were in the vaccine industry right now I’d release a covid placebo vaccine immediately (real ingredients sterile water, but priced up a lot). I’m all for vaccinating covid, but the vacine can;t be ready, if it can ever be developed, anything like fast enough. And it isn’t really so necessary either, for most people this is a mild virus. A placebo vaccine would be so easy to sell, sure not to have any risk of side effects (not that vaccines often do anyway), and most vitally of all would give the cowering coronanists confidence to get back to work and life. Win-win I’d say. Big-pharma, please do this immediately, we won’t give away the secret its a placebo, we won’t complain about the profits you make from selling the cheapest harmless ingredient you can find.

67887 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 3, #768 of 1641 🔗

Why, though? Personally, I don’t feel in the slightest threatened by the disease (and I’m in the age range where risks start to go up, admittedly not yet in the highest risk ages).

I wouldn’t see any reason to take it even if it were nailed on safe. The only plausible reason would be to gain the advantages of compliance and conformity – eg knuckle under to their manipulation, and I’ll be damned if I’ll do that lightly.

67895 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, #769 of 1641 🔗

Yeah, to be honest, you’re right! I might still have it though if I didn’t have to put myself out, at all, because…. why not?

Of course booking a doctor’s appointment and asking for it *would be putting myself out so……. yeah not gonna happen.

Basically unless they turn up at my house or workplace with a free shot I wouldn’t bother —- and if they did that, I’d be worried lol

68013 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mark, #770 of 1641 🔗

They will find a way Mark, are you paid or licenced by the state ? Is your employer on an approved list to bid for state contracts ? Need planning permission to improve your home ? Are you in receipt of a state pension ? Is your child being educated by the state? Expecting medical treatment anytime soon?

68062 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to karenovirus, #771 of 1641 🔗

Well I’m no pushover, but I’m not a martyr either, so doubtless they will find a way to pressure me into it if they are sufficiently determined. It’ll cost them, though…..

68089 ▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #772 of 1641 🔗

I’ll be leaving this world if I’m given no option but to be stuck with a syringe. I basically have nothing to live for anyway so dying for something will be a great way to say goodbye and leave this earth with my chin up.

67832 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 3, #773 of 1641 🔗

This really shows how thick she is. By gobbing out such utter tosh, she’s inviting all and sundry to ask the question about when she’ll be volunteering herself. I wonder what her answer will be (I note there are no comments at the moment on that article).

67788 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 11, #774 of 1641 🔗

Just done a big shop at Morrisons.

As we entered the store a bloke wearing hivis was leaving sans mask, but with shopping, gave us hope.

Should not have done every other shopper & member of staff. with the exception of checkout operators who are behind perspex was masked.

MSM have done a top job convincing the weak of thought that they must be masked, I was genuinely thinking we would see some knowing smiles, not a bit of it.

Sad.

I did not say anything to the checkout operator who served us as the look of disgust on her face when we arrived at the checkout said everything we needed to know. Our shopping was lobbed down the conveyor belt.

Just as we walked out of the store a couple of PCs arrived, one masked on not. Choice is a wonderful thing.

67794 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #775 of 1641 🔗

Just seen on Twitter that Walmart is no longer imposing masks – don’t they own Asda in the UK?

67798 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Carrie, 1, #776 of 1641 🔗

I believe they do

67810 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Carrie, 1, #777 of 1641 🔗

Walmart are trying to sell ASDA at the moment, they will not want a drop in sales.

67826 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #778 of 1641 🔗

Used to. Saisbury’s do now.

67845 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #779 of 1641 🔗

I thought the Sainsburys ASDA merger was blocked by the competition & Mergers authority, that is why Walmart got ASDA a few years ago?

67858 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #780 of 1641 🔗

Thanks.
Negotiations collapsed in April apparently. (Google is a useful tool!)

67800 ▶▶ anon, replying to Dave #KBF, #781 of 1641 🔗

jeepers I was hoping to face morrisons tomorrow.

67808 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to anon, 7, #782 of 1641 🔗

Go for it, no one said anything to us, no sly comments nothing.

Just really sad to see so many people with faces covered & I suspect some have conditions which would allow them to go bare faced, without any problem. One woman we followed down an isle was breathing so heavy I though she was going to collapse in front of us.

The people forcing this on the population are evil.

67834 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #783 of 1641 🔗

My exact words were going to be go for it too! Take no prisiners anon – this is your world as much as anyones.

67842 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to anon, 9, #784 of 1641 🔗

Our Morrison’s today was about 50/50 masks/no masks which was very surprising as it was about 95% masked at the weekend.

67846 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul, 9, #785 of 1641 🔗

Maybe the sheeple are discovering that mask-wearing (aka virtue-signalling) is not so easy and comfortable as they had thought, and that having seen some people unmasked, they are now daring to test not wearing masks themselves?
We can but hope…

67864 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #786 of 1641 🔗

Yes. Keep being shining examples. It’s a vital public service!

67877 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #787 of 1641 🔗

I agree. It’s the single most useful thing we can all do at the moment., Just be seen not wearing masks, preferably without displaying or even carrying a permit authorising us to do so. Let them wonder.

67898 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Mark, 1, #788 of 1641 🔗

Absolutely. Not claiming exemption unless absolutely necessary, and even then not providing any proof. The legislation says nothing about providing proof, I believe.
In other words, acting normally. And being polite and friendly with it if anyone asks.

67990 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mike Smith, #789 of 1641 🔗

Agreed, I have a mask exempt card/lanyard but have not produced it since Friday.

67913 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Cheezilla, #790 of 1641 🔗

it’s your “civic duty” as matt wankcock would say!! 🙂

67955 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sue, #791 of 1641 🔗

Will you please stop insulting wankers?

67857 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Paul, 6, #792 of 1641 🔗

I would also be fine with special hours for the non-masked, why not go along that route.
This way we can shop hassle free and enjoyable, and the bedwetters can shop scared and amongst themselves.
And the supermarkets get the custom of both groups.
What’s not to like?!

67863 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jay Berger, #793 of 1641 🔗

I like it but it wouldn’t back the government’s tenuous reasons for muzzling us in shops.

67897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #794 of 1641 🔗

It could provide hard evidence that face rags have no effect, but that would mean testing nappied versus non-nappied shoppers, which presumably the latter woukd not like.

67878 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Jay Berger, #795 of 1641 🔗

Yes, I could go with that – short term, pending the abandoning of the whole shooting match asap.

67911 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #796 of 1641 🔗

yes i thought this also – they have hours for the vulnerable and why not have a time say after 7pm when those who choose to be maskless can go in without being target of covert nasty looks. I still haven’t been to the supermarket and have this to look forward to – been putting it off but will have to go soon!

67995 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sue, #797 of 1641 🔗

The supermarkets are no problem, their staff being better briefed about Disability Discrimination, you don’t need to claim disability and they won’t ask.

67953 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jay Berger, #798 of 1641 🔗

In fact, this is a brilliant idea!

68000 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, #799 of 1641 🔗

Would this not just put non-mask-wearers into a ‘disability’ box? Might make it harder to convert others to our cause…

68365 ▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Jay Berger, #800 of 1641 🔗

http://laworfiction.com/2020/06/fast-passes-and-discounts-for-the-brave/ . This could even be taken further and have lower prices given you can have more customers through the doors, if only some places would have the guts to do it!

67866 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Paul, #801 of 1641 🔗

Brilliant! Still single one shopping experiences here in the supermarkets. It is great to hear 95% nevermind 50%.

67914 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #802 of 1641 🔗

Just seen on Guido that MP Sir Desmond Swayne, who spoke up in the commons against masks, seems to have backtracked: https://order-order.com/2020/07/28/swaynes-face-mask-u-turn/#comments

67976 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Carrie, 1, #803 of 1641 🔗

Good grief is there nobody left in Parliament able to stick to any statement of principle they make? Clearly these people have no principles, but have they not even the kind of basic stubbornness and self respect that would make them willing to at least go down fighting?

(Don’t bother answering that one, Carrie…. I know the answer, it’s just sometimes too depressing to face up to).

68081 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, #804 of 1641 🔗

Even worse it says they are thinking of encouraging masks in all public places.its pitchfork time

67984 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Paul, 1, #805 of 1641 🔗

Was it raining outside ? The masks don’t like it.

67884 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #806 of 1641 🔗

I was briefly in town today and not in any shops. Outdoor mask wearing seems to have dropped back to about 1 in 20, and quite a lot of them look like virtue signallers. I think most of the public just shove on a mask for the sake of hassle-free shopping but have no strong belief in its benefit.

67817 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #807 of 1641 🔗

Posted the other day about a Russian trawler in Faroe islands infected most asymptomatic with Covid-19 and the difficulties to keep isolated from the world (like New Zealand) Today“This comes after six new cases were registered on board Lithuanian cargo ship Cassiopeia. The ship has been docking next to Russian trawler Karelia, which had at least 23 Covid-19 positive crew members, at the Ánirnar port near Klaksvík. The entire Cassiopeia crew, totalling 23 men, were tested, and six tests came out positive. Cassiopeia is due to leave port for South Africa today.”
Does anyone really believe that this virus can be stopped? Where are the virologists saying these obvious things? Are they all muzzled? In the swine flu pandemic 2009 we had Prof John Oxford and Prof Pennington saying sensible things. Where are the new ones or are they scared of their funding? (considering the grip big pharma has over universities)

67872 ▶▶ Mark, replying to swedenborg, 1, #808 of 1641 🔗

Isn’t that pretty much exactly what Tegnell’s been saying from the start, and Giesecke and other dissenting epidemiologists. Is it specifically a virologist you are looking for?

67901 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mark, #809 of 1641 🔗

They are epidemiologists. It would be good also to have virologists like those above(Oxford) but the new ones are probably to scared to put out their necks

67918 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 1, #810 of 1641 🔗

Guptra pretty much said that, Dolores Cahill in Ireland pretty much said it, loads of others have said you’ve got to let it run through the population.

67820 Basics, replying to Basics, 2, #811 of 1641 🔗

Useful figure to remember Gates Foundation have invested $1Bn in UK Sciences at 2018.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-42822110

NHS Global Citizen is essentially common purposing internationally.

67900 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #812 of 1641 🔗

And Gates appears to have Boris in his pocket….

What do we make of this? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/28/exclusive-downing-street-seeks-spokesman-communicate-nation/

Is Boris trying to distance himself from his decisions? How can spending £100,000 on this be justified?

67926 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #813 of 1641 🔗

Thats the way of the Whitehouse.

Clarence Mitchell is a name that popped into my head. Would they dare go for ex BBC face?

67957 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #814 of 1641 🔗

When I first read about it, it was on Julia Hartley-Brewer’s Twitter feed (she had retweeted it with a comment). The original poster had quoted from the announcement and it sounded like they were looking for a new face – I’m guessing they won’t want anyone with any kind of ‘past’ that would taint them…

The White House spokesperson, Kayleigh McEnany, is always well-prepared and very on the ball – she is impressive!

67968 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #815 of 1641 🔗

I dont know, we will see. Mitchell was a gov spokesman employed in part for his trusted bbc credentials I would guess. Audience trust a large part of the role clearly.

67996 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #816 of 1641 🔗

I seem to remember he was spokesman for Mohammed Al Fayed and possibly the McCanns?
To me that makes him ‘establishment’ and therefore not to be trusted an inch!

68051 ▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Carrie, #817 of 1641 🔗

Yes, firmly in pocket, see Victoia Beely’s articles at:
Ukcolumn.org
The while sordud mess neefs exposing, its the only way this hell can be ended

68045 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Basics, #818 of 1641 🔗

Yes, and look how awful our science is now

67822 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 15, #819 of 1641 🔗

8pm. Nipped muzzle-free into corner shop for cash machine and a bottle of wine. Couldn’t see any signs about muzzles.

One customer, male, 40s wore black muzzle. Other customer, female, 30s, no muzzle.

Cashier no muzzle, no perspex screens.
Sanity!

67827 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #820 of 1641 🔗

Cornershop magic!

67892 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Basics, #821 of 1641 🔗

Yes, back them, boycott big nappy-zealot shops.

68325 ▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to annie, #822 of 1641 🔗

Annie – your comment made me smile for the first time today. Thank you.

67825 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #823 of 1641 🔗

Small black mark for Wetherspoons. New thing today, staff on door asking you to take T and T form. No pressure after that, though, and we dutifully left it blank on the table. Could be cos this was Darwen, and Blackburn council have got the ‘extra measures’ in place.

Which brings me to: we’ve said that ‘they’ mention things, occasionally deny them, then there’s a photo op and then… it happens. Well,

Blackburn: extra measures ‘to avoid local lockdown’
Rochdale: ditto last week
Oldham: ditto announced today
Boris ‘worried about second wave in Europe’

… imminent official UK second wave, anybody?

67833 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #824 of 1641 🔗

Same down here in Billericay, Essex, but exactly the same. As long as you take one, they don’t bother you again. I didnt see anyone hand one back.

67840 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Chris Hume, #825 of 1641 🔗

Yeah, official policy on the website is they won’t hassle you, I just haven’t seen that up to now. Just worried about local councils, with their new ‘powers’. Might start leaning on em.

68042 ▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Chris Hume, #826 of 1641 🔗

Don’t think there is a legal obligation to comply

67841 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, #827 of 1641 🔗

Maybe, although mandatory gloves might be on the way first…

67848 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, 4, #828 of 1641 🔗

And no doubt drinking your own urine, too. It would make as much sense. I’ve already started, just in case 😉

67852 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #829 of 1641 🔗

Noooooooooooooooo!!!

67854 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #830 of 1641 🔗

I hope not, but I’m going by the pictures of glove-wearers appearing in the media, as shown on lockdown truth

67851 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #831 of 1641 🔗

I don’t think second wave is necessary. The threat of a local lockdown will keep everyone on their toes and do less damage to the economy.

Is Blackburn Labour by any chance?

67928 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, #832 of 1641 🔗

Only in the same way that the other two are!

67975 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cheezilla, #833 of 1641 🔗

Must be a difficult choice for local councillors between further wrecking their local economies or enhancing their own power/ego/pushing people about.
Actually it will be the paid council officials who will have the power and the fun.

67970 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #834 of 1641 🔗

Same here in Devon, they did not supply a pen and I don’t carry one, put their form in the little ballot box blank.

67829 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #835 of 1641 🔗

Welcome the Director of NIH (Fauci organisation one of the culprits in disastrous lockdown policies)They have at last discovered T cells immunity. Important that they now admit that. Here is Francis Collins take on it
 https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/28/immune-t-cells-may-offer-lasting-protection-against-covid-19/

67838 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to swedenborg, #836 of 1641 🔗

Thanks. Interesting stuff.

67839 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, #837 of 1641 🔗

Bertoletti’s team and others are pursuing this intriguing lead to see where it will lead—not only in explaining our varied responses to the virus, but also in designing new treatments and optimized vaccines.

Hmmm!

67849 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, 4, #838 of 1641 🔗

According to the censored doctors, he and the NIH know since 2005 that HCQ works against coronaviruses.

68040 ▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Jay Berger, #839 of 1641 🔗

Yes, I read the 2005 paper In January….Fauci et al are pretending it doesn’t exist

68305 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Jay Berger, #840 of 1641 🔗

https://twitter.com/bunnehbooboo/status/1288259981288988672/photo/1
Fauci said 2005 the above.Today he says it should not be used in this coronavirus infection.

68036 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to swedenborg, #841 of 1641 🔗

Fauci is totaly compromised, see Fauci Files on John Solomon’s Just theNews.com website

67855 Basics, replying to Basics, #842 of 1641 🔗

My care home worker friend reports they are “to have weekly PCR tests until there is a vaccine”. Today has been tesing day.

67867 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #843 of 1641 🔗

Workers, residents or both?

67874 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #844 of 1641 🔗

Workers.

67902 ▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Basics, 1, #845 of 1641 🔗

is that actually legal? when did mamdatory testing become legal???

67915 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Azoumi, 1, #846 of 1641 🔗

I do not know. I do know it isn’t okay with me. And I suspect the residents are outside the reach of whatever the legal situation is. It is feeling like coercion – if refused then perhaps there may be consequences. My friend is very timid to question or stand against anything.

67925 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Basics, 2, #847 of 1641 🔗

it is shocking and as you say, not okay! I feel I should know because I am a social worker…so far there’s been no mention of us having to be forcibly tested, a;though it has crossed my mind but I haven’t ruled it out, and that refusal may mean losing one’s job. If that happens, I will leave my profession without question before I submit to that!

67927 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Azoumi, #848 of 1641 🔗

Question was asked what if you refuse? Answer- you can’t work.

67930 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Basics, 1, #849 of 1641 🔗

Oh God! that is so very wrong on every level! That needs publicising because I am sure??? that it has not been made mandatory…yet!

67936 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Azoumi, #850 of 1641 🔗

But wait! There is more! If you cannot go in on your day off to be tested, you cannot work that week.

I’m learning more as I comment here.

68025 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Basics, #851 of 1641 🔗

Just how the government likes it…..

68033 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to PowerCorrupts, #852 of 1641 🔗

Yes. And probably exactly how the governmet planned and made it too.

67946 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Basics, 2, #854 of 1641 🔗

I’ve has a quick and very scant view of it…it’s for Scotland and it does say “subject to individual’s consent” and relates to both staff and residents…what I know of English legislation is that they cannot force a resident to have what is essentially a medical intervention. Lots of people living in care homes have the capacity to make decisions for themselves just like the rest of us and have the right to refuse and I would imagine it’s the same in Scotland?

67950 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Azoumi, 2, #855 of 1641 🔗

Plus, it states it’s guidance and not legislation.

67962 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Azoumi, 2, #856 of 1641 🔗

I saw it is guidance. I presume the contract of employment gives provision or else the covid bill scotland makes acceptable to esssential workers. Its still not okay. And something I will slow burn with my friend – they are not close to standing up against this. Thanks for skimming!

67972 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Basics, 2, #857 of 1641 🔗

It’s difficult when you need to work to pay the bills…another case of the reality of what this is doing to everyone. Perhaps you’re right about the contract of employment but I cannot understand how they would have been able to change it so readily. That said, they seem to be able to do what they like and get away with it these days! I feel so sorry for your friend, they must be so scared…being made to do something against your will is traumatic and to feel you have no choice and are powerless is an awful feeling to live with. We need the Human Rights organisations on this for the good of us all.

68005 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Azoumi, #858 of 1641 🔗

My friend is awesome and on the bottom of the most bottom rung. Their world simply doesn’t encompass news and current affairs. There are reasons for this. The employer and the testers should show character in their responsibilty.

Is hair sampling legal in UK for drug use by employers. This seems similar.

68021 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Basics, #859 of 1641 🔗

Yeah I hear what you’re saying…like the rest of the lunacy, it seems so simply wrong.

68030 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Azoumi, #860 of 1641 🔗

But like the rest there is hope. Once the truth is widely discovered.

I wondrr if all care homes are doing the same. It may be a way for the testing number rates to be kept high. I will catch other friends elsewhere in care.

68031 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Azoumi, #861 of 1641 🔗

Look at KeepBritainFree.com, Simon Dolan set it up as part of his attempt to take legal action against the government illegal usurpation of our rights. There is a growing community thete, you will be welcome

67885 Hugh, replying to Hugh, 6, #862 of 1641 🔗

Wasn’t doctor Immanuel fantastic!
I am sick to death of big pharma running things for their own profit and trampling all over our rights. Do you know, the European Union banned the selling of my favourite food apricot kernels as a food – there is plenty of evidence that they are an excellent, cheap way of preventing cancer (luckily I can still buy them as a “face mask” or “body scrub” – not THAT sort of face mask!). The rumour is that big pharma were worried it would hit their profits and have been trying to discourage its use from the start.

68023 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Hugh, 1, #863 of 1641 🔗

More than a rumour

68029 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Hugh, 1, #864 of 1641 🔗

You can still buy them in the UK if you know where to look 😉

68124 ▶▶ Telpin, replying to Hugh, #865 of 1641 🔗

Excuse the ignorance but who is Dr.Immanuel

68578 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Telpin, #866 of 1641 🔗

One of the Americanfrontlinedoctors, whose website has been censored. Video on bitchute/breitbart/possibly even utube.

68580 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Hugh, #867 of 1641 🔗

We eat shed loads of apricots in the summer, and crack the kernels ourselves. Self-sufficiency. 🙂

68583 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #868 of 1641 🔗

Also, apple pips contain the same stuff. Eat those cores !

67888 Mike Smith, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #870 of 1641 🔗

OK, so in 2018 we had 50,000 excess deaths (compared to the previous 5-year average). Not surprising as the flu that year was very bad.
This year we’ve had 65,000 excess deaths. So I might say, “What’s the fuss all been about?”
But they will say, “It would have been far, far higher without the lockdown.”
How do we know that that is untrue?

67937 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mike Smith, 1, #871 of 1641 🔗

It’s not really possible to prove something won’t or wouldn’t have happened. However if this was a court case the balance of probabilities suggests that lockdown had little or limited effect.

68016 ▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Nobody2020, #872 of 1641 🔗

The Lancet study concluded lickdowns don’t reduce mortality, but government is operating free of evidence

68018 ▶▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, #873 of 1641 🔗

Lockdowns nor lickdowns

68027 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to PowerCorrupts, #874 of 1641 🔗

“Lockdowns nor lickdowns”

Neither lockdowns nor lickdowns reduce mortality?

68569 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, #875 of 1641 🔗

I’d go for ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ myself.

The South African Panda group recommend the splatter graph re lockdown efficacy. Is somewhere on this page.

67969 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mike Smith, 3, #876 of 1641 🔗

Because globally there is no correlation between locking down and better outcomes, and even though national responses have varied from strict coercive lockdown to basically ignoring the disease (eg Belarus), nowhere has there been the kind of catastrophe involving deaths dramatically larger than bad seasonal death numbers, of the kind predicted by the scaremongers.

67998 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Mike Smith, 6, #877 of 1641 🔗

A lockdown only prevents a relatively small number of deaths by reducing strain on health services and stopping you overshooting the herd immunity threshold. It’s never going to be the difference between 50k and 500k deaths. The simple reason is that you have to come back out of lockdown at some point and unless Covid has been eradicated (which is practically impossible and it certainly has not been) you will end up at the same equilibrium.

In the UK deaths were already starting to slow down well before three weeks into the lockdown when they “should” have still been growing exponentially if it was the lockdown that was preventing them.

Now that we have come out of the lockdown, cases (by which I mean ratios of positive to total tests, hospitalizations and deaths) are not going up. But other viruses are spreading again showing that this has nothing to do with restrictions or masks.

The behavioural changes in the week before the lockdown probably did lower the herd immunity threshold, but these are things that people are doing anyway and are not a big deal: staying at home when ill, washing hands.

People sometimes talk about chaos and modelling and butterflies and things. Epidemics are predictable and very strongly find their way to herd immunity and a situation with an endemic virus bouncing around at a low level forever. Any other configuration is unstable, like trying to balance a pencil on its point. Look the other way for a second and it’s lying flat on the table.

South Korea, Taiwan, NZ, Iceland, some others probably, are still balancing that teetering pencil. Everywhere else it has either had or is on its way to some kind of soft or hard landing. In the UK it fell off the table long ago and rolled under the fridge.

68088 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, #878 of 1641 🔗

Y butterfly post the other day was meant to be an illustration of the ridiculousness of the situation. Just as self defence.

68306 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, #879 of 1641 🔗

Yes didn’t mean to imply any criticism of what you said which was a good analysis. But the point I keep banging on about is this idea that stable things (stuff falling over, water finding its own level, death, taxes, epidemics, even ice ages) can be modelled very well up to a point. Unstable or chaotic things like the weather are much harder. What dodgy models often have in common is opacity and inadequate assessment of error propagation and it’s right to criticise them for that. But sometimes it sounds like people are just losing faith in “modelling” and it’s more subtle than that. I don’t mean you I’m just going on about my own hobby horses here 🙂

68011 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Mike Smith, 2, #880 of 1641 🔗

Look at Sweden, it proves the case for not locking down

68073 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to PowerCorrupts, #881 of 1641 🔗

Look closer- Netherlands-their “lock down” has really gone under the radar and is proving to be best practice

68085 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to PowerCorrupts, 1, #882 of 1641 🔗

Romania, still being an authoritarian regime, was able to enforce a hard lockdown and unlocked early. Guess what ? It is now having to lockdown again.

67889 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 8, #883 of 1641 🔗

HCQ, Zinc & antibiotic for early stage cases, plus Sweden’s SD for another while, and the ‘pandemic’ is over immediately.

68008 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #884 of 1641 🔗

Well THAT’s no good!!!!! End the ‘pandemic’ with no tracking vaccine’Health’ Passport…..impossible!

68116 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to PowerCorrupts, 1, #885 of 1641 🔗

Also they want to keep this going so Trump can be defeated in November. If Geriatric Joe wins then the crisis will be over by Christmas.

67894 swedenborg, #886 of 1641 🔗

Perhaps something to follow for Hancock? https://www.nknews.org/2020/07/runaway-causes-first-suspected-covid-19-case-in-north-korea-state-media-says/
 “However, it’s still unclear whether the “runaway” person really has COVID-19. North Korea’s “anti-epidemic organization” received an “uncertain result” after testing the person’s upper respiratory organs and blood, the KCNA reported. Authorities also put the individual under “strict quarantine.”
Meanwhile, those who may have come into contact with the individual in Kaesong City and those who visited the city within the last five days “are being thoroughly investigated, given medical examination and put under quarantine,” according to the KCNA.
North Korean leader Kim Jong Un ordered a lockdown on Kaesong City on July 24, isolating each district within the city from the other. Kim reportedly stated “that everyone needs to face up to the reality of [the] emergency” and designated each major sector with unspecified tasks to help protect against the virus.”

67903 Paul, 1, #887 of 1641 🔗

I’ve survived so far, including multiple domestic BA flights without a mask. Two questions from quasi-authorities (staff on a ferry and as I was boarding a flight) ‘I’m exempt’. No one else has ever bothered.
Walk about with a big smile and everyone is happy to see you.

Simple – don’t wear it, smile, be nice and friendly. People miss smiles. If you bring one to them, they might join in.

No one questions me.

67906 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 2, #888 of 1641 🔗

Just had a random thought. Dominic Frisby’s song ‘Maybe’ didn’t really stand the test of time did it. Maybe Boris Johnson could be good? Er……

67921 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Biggles, 1, #889 of 1641 🔗

Knowing Dominic, he will write some new verses, like he has done with at least one of his other songs..

67908 Bruno, replying to Bruno, 3, #890 of 1641 🔗

Anyone else had a patronising response from a package holiday firm, saying they’re working through their cancellation refunds in date order and will get to yours some time in 2021 (by which time some companies will be insolvent)? It would be fairer if they paid everyone a % now, with more later if they don’t go under, but doubtless that’s far too difficult…
Here’s a draft reply, in case it’s any use to anyone else:
‘Thank you for your response to my request for a cash refund.
You have provided some ingenious reasons for the company’s refusal to provide a cash refund before 2021 but unfortunately these are neither accurate nor persuasive.

I am very aware of the ABTA recommendations as I have already negotiated other cash refunds of deposits/full cost this year. They are however no more than recommendations. The legal position, as I’m sure the company solicitor is aware, is that when a holiday is cancelled the client is entitled to a cash refund within fourteen days. While clearly the company would prefer clients to opt for a CRN (credit note) , and this will be acceptable to many clients, the legal requirement remains that where a cash refund is requested it must be provided.

You also refer to the company’s financial and fiduciary responsibilities. These do not, in any circumstances, permit the company’s officers to ignore the law. This has been amply demonstrated by the fact that many companies, ranging from small concerns to major conglomerates, have made cash refunds to certain of their clients.

I would refer you to the Competition & Markets Authority statement on consumer protection law in relation to cancellations of 30 April 2020 which sets out the legal position very clearly. Most recently on 10 July the CMA has issued an update including an open letter to package holiday providers, which you can find on its website. Most relevant is the statement that:

” Initially when customers are contacted they should be given clear and legally correct information about their options…..these should always include the option of receiving a full cash refund without undue delay and in any event not later than 14 days.”

I am sure the CMA would take a dim view of your flat refusal of a refund until 2021, backed up as it has been with a very inaccurate account of the company’s legal responsibility.

I now look forward to receiving a full refund from you in the near future of the deposits paid.’

67932 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bruno, 2, #891 of 1641 🔗

Hi Sylvie, I work in travel albeit on the agent rather than operator side. I completely agree with you in respect to the law but it was never legislated with a global shutdown in mind.

The industry is in free fall and failures are imminent but if operators fail, your money will be protected under the ATOL scheme. The larger tour ops such as TUI and Jet2 are fielding a million calls a day and cannot cope . I honestly think they are doing their utmost in an horrific situation. 14 days is simply not feasible given the volume and although they say 2021, in my experience you will receive the refund well before then.

I know it is hugely frustrating but I honestly believe the travel companies are doing their utmost in a horrendous situation.

67954 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 2, #892 of 1641 🔗

It might only take one or two similar quarantine declarations from other countries to completely collapse the system. It doesn’t feel so far away already.

67961 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 4, #893 of 1641 🔗

I can’t see how any sensible person could now plan a foreign holiday anywhere given that the gumment can do the quarantine thing anywhere
at random.
Greta will be pleased, the proles have been forced out of the skies leaving them to the Jet Set. All part of the plan ?

67973 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, 6, #894 of 1641 🔗

Yes actually it is all part of the plan. Travel is to be a luxury not a right. Planes are out but rail in. HS2 etc. See mark windows for more on the plan to take travel rights from us.

67993 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #895 of 1641 🔗

‘mark windows’?

67997 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #896 of 1641 🔗

Mark Windows yes

68131 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, #897 of 1641 🔗
68001 ▶▶▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to karenovirus, 3, #898 of 1641 🔗

Yes, surely part of the plan, but oddly enough it might be the p art that actually provokes the resistance required to bring this .destructive charade (& Executive???) to a welcomed end. People value hol idays over much else, whatever it takes To end the insanity is fine with me

68004 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to PowerCorrupts, 2, #899 of 1641 🔗

Won’t they just push us towards the covipass – ‘just have the vaccine and you can travel’…?

68078 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Carrie, #900 of 1641 🔗

Good point, yes you can travel without the threat of ten days solitary.

67964 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Basics, 2, #901 of 1641 🔗

I agree and the failures will come thick and fast now but if package holiday, money is protected. Sadly it is a case of size of business vs. capability to cope. We work mainly with smaller specialist operators and all clients refunded without delay. We are still waiting for refunds from larger companies dating back to March and I have repaid clients out of my own pocket to stop the abusive phone calls and emails.

67979 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 1, #902 of 1641 🔗

You said it so well, a horrendous situation. The money may be protected but the industry is exposed – as huge as it is. Good wishes to you to make it through.

67934 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Bruno, #903 of 1641 🔗

You will get the money pretty quickly I would imagine! Everyone should demand the cash alternative. You are right, many will not survive into 2021, so the credit note is worthless

67947 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #904 of 1641 🔗

The credit note is financially protected by the CAA if a package holiday was bought. If the company goes under, the Govt pay.

67982 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bruno, 1, #905 of 1641 🔗

Our response from Blue Air (Romanian airline) for a cash refund for cancelled flights was “we’ll process your refund when the pandemic is over”. I don’t think so! I put in a section 75 claim to my credit card provider (you may need to download a form to do this) and, no exaggeration, a temporary refund was credited to my account the following day. They have since asked for further info, but it’s only stuff like flight details and passenger names, and copies of emails from the merchant.

68077 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tenchy, 1, #906 of 1641 🔗

Thanks all, and Tenchy for this alternative suggestion. It’s a bit of a sore point, I holiday with a friend who became very seriously ill with a mystery disease a couple of months ago (couldn’t swallow, weakened arm, leg muscles). Although now out of hospital we’ll probably never fly/ travel abroad together again, trying to get our money back, as firms have now cancelled everything anyway.

68084 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tenchy, #907 of 1641 🔗

It was the credit card companies that put Flybe down, just as well really as they would never have survived this.

67912 Edward, replying to Edward, 10, #908 of 1641 🔗

“Masks do more harm than good”.
That’s the kind of simple slogan needed to counter the moral blackmail of “Wear a mask to protect others”.

The statement can be expanded: A mask may damage the wearer’s health by inhibiting breathing and concentrating contaminants (including the Covid-19 virus in the unlikely event that the wearer is infected). After a short period of use a contaminated mask should be properly cleaned (if cloth) or disposed of as clinical waste, otherwise it constitutes a health hazard. Such hazards are evident given the careless way in which most of the public use and dispose of masks. Plastic waste is enough of a problem already and masks add to it. Masks inhibit verbal and visual communication between people, and widespread use results in a dystopian atmosphere leading to psychological and social problems. Masks as generally used are unlikely to prevent transmission of infection, and are not necessary as very few people are infected.

But most of us on this site know all this already! The challenge is to persuade others.

67919 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Edward, 3, #909 of 1641 🔗

We have a big challenge: https://order-order.com/2020/07/28/brits-believe-coronavirus-death-is-100-times-larger-than-it-really-is/#comments

The MSM and government have succeeded in their aim of increasing people’s sense of personal threat, if it is true that Brits believe this: ‘ on average the British public believe a whopping 7% of the UK population has died from Coronavirus, a number 100 times higher than the recorded-death reality. Brits also believe that 22% of the country has had coronavirus, when the real surveyed number is four times less – between 5 and 6%. Brits are also the most fearful of a second wave of infections of any country polled, with more than three-quarters (76%) expecting one in the next year or so…’

67924 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Carrie, #910 of 1641 🔗

These beliefs are so obviously wrong and easily disproved. But you’re right to point out that if these kind of beliefs are prevalent, the slightly more subtle arguments in my post will be difficult to get across.

67942 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Carrie, 2, #911 of 1641 🔗

When I’m having The Conversation with someone they invariably come up with “I think there will be…/when do you think the second wave will come ?”

This is easily countered and often leads to a constructive discussion, I think they are fed up to the back teeth with the lies from bbc but their only other avenue for information is the groupthink social media bubble.
I find this willingness to listen to be especially true for ‘working class’ twentysomethings, older folks just want to Do The Right Thing, more educated ones are too far up their own arses to listen to a contrary opinion.

68196 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 1, #912 of 1641 🔗

‘Second wave’ has become a mantra, bleated without thought like ‘Four legs good, two legs bad’.

68587 ▶▶▶ The Boy From Ripon, replying to Carrie, #913 of 1641 🔗

Theres no hope with thise sort of belief systems!

68253 ▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Edward, #914 of 1641 🔗

“Masks do more harm than good”. I think this is excellent, and if challenged by another shopper one can say this, or a variant of it, without being at all aggressive. I think the thing is to be friendly and rational, making a proper discussion possible. Bear in mind that others may well be listening even if one’s questioner isn’t really listening. Also you don’t have to persuade them on the spot, just give them things to think about.

Wearing a mask is unpleasant, and so I suspect that a lot of people will be happy to listen as long as one sounds sensible. Someone on here said that there number of maskless people had decreased in one shop. That’s all we need – some movement and others will follow.

67920 Alice, replying to Alice, 4, #915 of 1641 🔗

Late night reflection on the horror of masks

Does anyone remember a film from 1970s “Johnny Got His Gun”?  Poor Johnny had to wear a mask, because his face was completely destroyed by an artillery shell during WW1. I watched the film in the cinema with my sister, and we sat through the whole film terrified that the mask was going to be lifted at some point, to reveal unimaginable horrors. It never was lifted – but the memory of those (imagined) horrors stayed with me, and it probably contributed in some way to my intense dislike of masks…

I tried to attach a photo from the film – not sure if it worked. hope I haven’t frightened anyone…

67938 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Alice, 2, #916 of 1641 🔗

Likewise Phantom of the Opera. The 1925 silent film with Lon Chaney is by far the best version, and the unmasking scene is still scary if you can mentally put yourself into the position of a 1920s viewer.

67948 ▶▶▶ Alice, replying to Edward, 1, #917 of 1641 🔗

Exactly – this is one of the cultural associations we have – horror of disfigurement behind the mask.

67951 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Edward, 1, #918 of 1641 🔗

My mum tried to stop me watching that aged about 10, wish she had, gave me nightmares for weeks.

67958 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to karenovirus, #919 of 1641 🔗

Were you 10 in 1925? 🙂

68071 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Edward, 1, #920 of 1641 🔗

No, the beeb repeated it in 1967 when everything was still black and white.

67960 ▶▶▶▶ Alice, replying to karenovirus, 1, #921 of 1641 🔗

Oh, yes, I had nightmares as well – it was very difficult to forget. I just can’t understand the fashion for masks – don’t the younger generations have the same cultural references?

68126 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Alice, #922 of 1641 🔗

Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Halloween both spring to mind – both quite long running franchises, iirc.

68128 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Alice, 1, #923 of 1641 🔗

I saw a school with a HORRIBLE huge banner strung up around the fence. Cartoon kids playing and flying a banner staying keep 2 meters apart or something.

One female cartoon child stood out, she was wearing a mask and had a particularly “on guard” expression in here eyes, the eyes looked keen and vigilant, looking to the side. A role model leader child it said to me. It really was quite disturbing. This was 3 weeks ago.

68477 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #924 of 1641 🔗

Photo ?

68048 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Edward, 2, #925 of 1641 🔗

Glad you mentioned Phantom. I’ve just heard that the London show is to close after 30 years:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/28/phantom-opera-end-west-end-shows-30-years/

Quote:

Mr Mackintosh [the producer] wrote of the “artistic and commercial bankruptcy of trying to apply social distancing to indoor mainstream threatre” [sic].

He added: “Even the most optimistic theatre practitioners among us came to the conclusion that it is a disaster.

“It was all Alice in Wonderland in its ridiculousness: images of distanced patrons dotted around the huge Palladium theatre, members of Public Health England stalking the stalls to check masks covered everyone’s face properly.”

Bloody bastards – PHE England, that is.

68053 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 2, #926 of 1641 🔗

Can’t believe PHE did that – so unnecessary.. Seems like a deliberate attempt to stop any theatre even trying to open again…

68129 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tenchy, 1, #927 of 1641 🔗

PHE need to be totally disbanded, they are just bastards.

68195 ▶▶ annie, replying to Alice, 1, #928 of 1641 🔗

And do you remember The Elephant Man ?

68475 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to annie, #929 of 1641 🔗

Great film, quite moving

67935 swedenborg, 3, #930 of 1641 🔗

Robert Redfield showed this study the other day as an example that masks work. It is supposed to be HCW in Massachusetts. Don’t have the original study but this twitter thread which is highly critical as you can see and might be biased. Posted this as Redfield CDC is an important figure in the mask recommendation in the US.

https://twitter.com/boriquagato/status/1288190966621405186

67943 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 7, #931 of 1641 🔗

The American Frontline Doctors press conference is just brilliant. Highly recommended if you haven’t seen it.

Still online here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ggiwwTnTwo

67974 ▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #932 of 1641 🔗

Just posted this on Facebook https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D7mxB1JQgw . It was instantaneously labelled “False information. Same thing happened when I posted previous Frontline Doctors video last night, but by the morning it was on Bit Chute, and invulnerable. I’m fairly sceptical about the existence of a “new virus”, but people have been dying from respiratory diseases, among other things, and if Hydroxychloroquine is a cure for these it will perhaps be possible to dispel the insane fear and put paid to nonsense like masks and anti-social distancing.

67985 ▶▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Gillian Swanson, 1, #933 of 1641 🔗

Time for moving over to Parler.com, it was set up to ensure freespeech

67999 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to PowerCorrupts, 2, #934 of 1641 🔗

You can’t read it without joining it. Why?

68007 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, 1, #935 of 1641 🔗

Yes, annoying that…

68056 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, 1, #936 of 1641 🔗

I’m guessing it must be to protect their free speech policies – means anybody who views their stuff directly has to have signed up to their terms of service and can be argued to have consented to the consequences of their policies.

68107 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, 1, #937 of 1641 🔗

Hmm…not convinced by that. It’s based in the USA and will be protected by First Amendment rights. Anyway they could just have an “I agree” box to cover the issue you raise. They don’t need to make you hand over all your key personal data.

68123 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, #938 of 1641 🔗

Firs Amendment doesn’t protect you from the digital mob, and the latter’s reach extends into the internet’s corporate structures these days. Look what happens to openly “racist” sites such as Stormfront.

They are losing out massively on expansion possibilities by hiding their stuff away, so I can’t believe it’s for a simple commercial reason such as making more people sign up. They must be losing many many more customers by that policy than they could ever gain.

68144 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mark, #939 of 1641 🔗

That’s confusing decisions of private companies with First Amendment rights.

68588 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, #940 of 1641 🔗

No, it’s doing the opposite to that – pointing out that the First Amendment is of little use in this regard.

67983 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #941 of 1641 🔗

The full conference is extremely informative, nearly 3 hours, possibly the best 3 hours I have spent sin ce the destruction began in March: its in the Menu under ‘Summit’:
AmericasFrontlineDoctors.com

68210 ▶▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to PowerCorrupts, #942 of 1641 🔗

Agree…it’s defo worth the watch!!

68499 ▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to PowerCorrupts, #943 of 1641 🔗

It’s saying “Website Expired”.

67945 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 26, #944 of 1641 🔗

Observations from Sainsbury’s this morning:
On my Friday and Saturday shifts, I was one of only two workers not wearing a mask. And by that I don’t mean just wearing it under my chin, I mean not wearing it at all.

In the shop today, a couple of my colleagues asked me “Where’s your mask?”
I replied, “I’m not wearing one.”

Later on, both the workers who asked me that had dispensed with theirs completely and so had at least three others. To go from two unmasked on Saturday to six unmasked today is pretty good going, if you ask me. It looks like leading by example is the way to go.

We were also approached by a regular customer who moaned about the stupidity of the rule and the discomfort caused by his mask, so several of us encouraged him to take his mask off and, sure enough, he did and he was a lot happier for it.

Sadly, I couldn’t help noticing that about 98% of customers were still masked, and that it was weirdly quiet this morning. It’s too early to say for certain, but people may already be forsaking the High Street in order to do all their shopping online.

67956 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Ben Shirley, #945 of 1641 🔗

Out of interest, which branch of Sainsbury’s was it?

68003 ▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #946 of 1641 🔗

If you don’t mind, I’d rather not post that publicly. Not surprisingly, I’m posting under a nom de plume, but all the same I don’t think I’d be wise to post too many details where anyone can see them. It’s a small-ish store in Greater London, I’ll say as much as that.

68063 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Ben Shirley, 1, #947 of 1641 🔗

Good to get the inside word from stores.

68103 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Ben Shirley, #948 of 1641 🔗

Thanks for the info Ben.

68273 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to Jonathan Castro, #949 of 1641 🔗

Only a 77th would ask that.

67988 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Ben Shirley, #950 of 1641 🔗

Good for you! One bedwetter at a time…

68059 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #951 of 1641 🔗

Sainsbury’s head of security having a quiet word with his pals in MI5, someone needs a wet job before Sainsbury’s goes under.

68194 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ben Shirley, 1, #952 of 1641 🔗

Well done you.
Thought: if people are forsaking supermarkets, what hope is there for ‘non-essential’ shops?

67959 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 6, #953 of 1641 🔗

Great video by Fiona from Dorset:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aERWHJkOvBE

67978 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Castro, 1, #954 of 1641 🔗

Wow, what a fantastic speech – so articulate! Good video to share, because she is a ‘normal’ person, saying it like it is…

68002 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Carrie, 1, #955 of 1641 🔗

I think the various different videos will appeal to different people. Robin the IT Consultant from Bristol has interesting things to say.

68017 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #956 of 1641 🔗

Good that there is a variety – we can send our friends videos made by the people who they might most easily identify with.

68050 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Castro, #957 of 1641 🔗

Salty Cracker
on YouTube has a couple of on topic videos today. Very sweary NSFW but very very funny. (Sorry I don’t know how to do links from an Android).

67963 mhcp, 6, #958 of 1641 🔗

In a way this is like a LARP (Live Action Role Playing) for people who never managed to get involved in a cult.

I get this sinking feeling that the increase in deaths that will start to appear maybe August time will be associated as Covid. Then the real kick up into winter = Covid. It becomes the gift that keeps on giving.

Only riots in the streets, mass sacking of cabinet members and turmoil, or maybe Trump getting relected may stop it.

67966 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 8, #959 of 1641 🔗

A post on Off Guardian commenting on the similar timing of Mexico and UK governments’ highlighting of obesity as a Covid risk-factor:

Skeptic
Jul 28, 2020 5:18 PM

As a Mexican living in the UK I was stroke by the synchronicity with which both countries started their fight against obesity and crappy food. As a conspiracy theorist, I immediately sensed that there was something else going on. Someone clearly pushed the button.
Last week the Mexican covid boss declared that the growing number of deaths had nothing to do with his ineptitude or the sorry state of Mexican public health institutions, but with the rates of obesity and diabetes of the Mexican population (which are of course very high and a reason for concern). He called soft drinks poison and brilliantly switched the attention to the poor, who are left without clean water sources or nutritious foods, and are now also responsible for the government´s failures for their drinks choices.
But the fact is that the Mexican official, a John Hopkins graduate, might have some conflict of interest in his crusade to tax f.e. sugary drinks to “save lives in this and other future pandemics”. He has received millions from the Bloomberg foundation to lobby for these kind of policies.
And what has Bloomberg to gain from taxing sugary drinks? Well, he, as main donor of the John Hopkins Centre, who hosted the plandemic simulation, is very likely on board with Gates in ventures like Amyris, a company that produces both the healthiest sugar known to man and a novel anti-malaria drug; and is now also involved in developing the experimental RNA covid vaccine. Or Ginkgo, a company who “uses genetic engineering to design and print new DNA for a variety of organisms — from plants to bacteria — that can then be used for anything from killing antibiotic-resistant germs to producing artificial sweetener and cheaper perfume.”
I don´t think that knowing this will schock any regular visitor of this site, but my heart aches for those two or three persons who dropped their coca-colas (instead of puking them) and went for a jog after seeing Boris launching his new crusade for a healthy lifestyle.
The future looks indeed bleak with cancerigenous fertilisers, synthetic, lab grown foods and fat, cognitive deficient prime ministers setting the example for healthy habits.

67986 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Humanity First, 2, #960 of 1641 🔗

Yes, expect to see similar anti-obesity speeches from other countries over the next few days… we have sussed the modus operandi now..

Gates is into producing fake ‘meat’ as well, isn’t he?

67989 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #961 of 1641 🔗

Global isn’t it our national health care. Good to keep a handle on the similarities however. They will increase.

68020 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Carrie, 3, #962 of 1641 🔗

Looks like he is…

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/23/bill-gates-and-richard-branson-bet-on-lab-grown-meat-startup.html

Is there no limit to the concerns of multi-billionaires for the welfare of humanity?

68038 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #963 of 1641 🔗

Fake breast milk too. Milq by name.

68043 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #964 of 1641 🔗

Whaaat? Fake breast milk? Did not know about that..

Just googled and found this: : https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8439159/Artificial-breast-milk-start-gets-3-5-million-Bill-Gates-founded-investment-fund.html

Seems Bezos and Zuckerberg, and Richard Branson are part of it too…what a surprise (not)…

US firm BIOMILQ is working to artificially produce human breast milk from cultured human mammary epithelial cells on a commercially viable scale’ – sounds horrific…

68064 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #965 of 1641 🔗

No. Not just another formula.

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/more-gates-funded-brave-new-world-science-fake-breast-milk/

That link is the first i could lay my hands on see corbett new world next week about a month ago for a more honest opinion.

Think Branson may be in on it too. Not sure.

68066 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #966 of 1641 🔗

At some point Carrie all of this dominating sickness of self interested investments will add up to alarm in many.

68122 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, #967 of 1641 🔗

It hasn’t so far.

68299 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, #968 of 1641 🔗

At some point

68120 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, #969 of 1641 🔗

FrankenMilk

68118 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Carrie, #970 of 1641 🔗

My synthetic meat is sustainable *giggle*

68794 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Humanity First, #971 of 1641 🔗

fat, cognitive deficient prime ministers setting the example for healthy habits

so true

67971 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #972 of 1641 🔗

Anybody remember The Twilight Zone movie?

“It’s a good life”

Anthony brings a demented-looking Tazmanian Devil-like character out of the TV into real life and it looks almost real. Then he brings his (false) sister into the cartoon world to have her eaten alive by a cartoon monster and robs his real sister of her mouth. The world he creates is demented in and of itself . He also summons a demonic mutant rabbit out of hat. What’s worse, he has no idea why people would find his ideas of toons frightening .

68041 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #973 of 1641 🔗

There is a scary Star Trek episode where the Aliens do that to Captain Kirk and Bones.

67981 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 42, #974 of 1641 🔗

Just went to Tesco for the first time since you know what.

Walked past the security guard who is a sensible guy who has been sound throughout this. He didn’t bat an eye. Started going around and a 30 something yo guy passed me and said “I see you’ve no mask” in an unpleasant manner. I laughed at him.

Then I discovered what it’s like to be one of those celebrities that people will look at but not famous enough to approach or mob. Everyone was staring at my face. The single mask-less staff member smiled at me. I exchanged nods with the security guard on the way out.

I got my shopping but why do I have to psyche myself up to go into a supermarket?

Showing your face is a sign of defiance like English bowmen showing their fingers to the French. This must stop.

68032 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #975 of 1641 🔗

No it must not, please carry on doing just that. I don’t get aggressive reactions but I’m 6’2 and wear Doc Martens.

68054 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to karenovirus, 3, #976 of 1641 🔗

Pretty sure LDT was talking about the coronapanic nonsense when he wrote “this must stop”, not his maskless liberty.

68047 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #977 of 1641 🔗

Keep going, please keep shopping massless, we need to convince people that it is possible.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

68090 ▶▶ matt, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #978 of 1641 🔗

Remember what the English longbowmen achieved and then just carry on. It will stop… just not yet.

68193 ▶▶ annie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #979 of 1641 🔗

This is war.
You are a warrior.
You have courage.
Bravo!

68202 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #980 of 1641 🔗

Didn’t you say something a while ago about possible legal action?

There’s no way compulsory muzzles can be said, on any objective terms, to be ‘reasonable and proportionate’, which I thought was the test by which the Statutory Instruments s had to stand or fall.

Surely this is an open goal for anyone who can organise a legal action. Crowdfunding would presumably be no problem.

And The Buffoon is saying they’ll be here for a year, so here is plenty of time to embarrass the government on this.

68010 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 21, #981 of 1641 🔗

Popped into my big Sainsbury’s this evening. I’d say the non-mask:mask ratio was about 10:90. I was unmasked and unchallenged.

One thing that made me laugh was a guy entering the store, fully masked and gloved, frantically wiping down the entire trolley with anti-bac spray and blue roll. I actually felt sorry for him. The mental anguish he must be suffering seeing everything as a potential infection source.

Also, most of the staff had masks but they were either worn under their noses or under their chins. It’s all such nonsense!

68019 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to RDawg, 9, #982 of 1641 🔗

The fact that the staff were wearing masks under their chins shows that this is not sustainable, to wear a mask for hours on end..

68028 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to RDawg, 2, #983 of 1641 🔗

One thing that made me laugh was a guy entering the store, fully masked and gloved, frantically wiping down the entire trolley with anti-bac spray and blue roll. I actually felt sorry for him.

Especially given the not-so-recent comment in The Lancet, aptly titled “Exaggerated risk of transmission of COVID-19 by fomites:” https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2/fulltext

68192 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to IMoz, 1, #984 of 1641 🔗

Was he a foam-at-the-mouth-ite?

68039 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to RDawg, 5, #985 of 1641 🔗

I did not know one of my work colleagues is OCD about cleaning, she has managed to get it to a level where she can live day to day life fairly normally, unfortunately cv19 has had a really negative effect on her.

I am sure thousands of people have been affected similarly.

68057 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #986 of 1641 🔗

oh i wish it did have this affect on me and i would get the hoover and duster out of hibernation!! 🙂

68061 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #987 of 1641 🔗

before lock down I did ask the question-can you catch it from toilet seats? That didn’t go down well

68111 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to crimsonpirate, 1, #988 of 1641 🔗

Only if you lick them

68203 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Two-Six, 3, #989 of 1641 🔗

Lickdown.

68247 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to annie, #990 of 1641 🔗

Liddown. Lidlock. Aaarrgghh…

68109 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #991 of 1641 🔗

There is an old bloke across the road, I have watched him have social distancing chats with his daughters out the window but he hasn’t been out since March. He was out today, coming back from the shops two big carrier bags, gloves, mask. Its a long walk back from the shops and he was still PPE’d up and he looked like he was struggling too.

68106 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RDawg, 1, #992 of 1641 🔗

It is actually pretty funny. If only it wasn’t so evil.

68046 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 11, #993 of 1641 🔗

sorry folks I’m going to break ranks on the mask wearing business. I have tried it a couple of times and I appear to have a coordination problem-bumping into things and people- so if you don’t mind I’m going to carry on wearing the mask and cause some mayhem!

68055 ▶▶ Sue, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #994 of 1641 🔗

play bumper cars with your shopping trolley! oooohhhh so sorry i didn’t see you as my glasses are steamed up!! 🙂

68060 ▶▶▶ crimsonpirate, replying to Sue, 3, #995 of 1641 🔗

might try an antique shop next!

68105 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to crimsonpirate, #996 of 1641 🔗

Arrrrrr!

68058 crimsonpirate, replying to crimsonpirate, 7, #997 of 1641 🔗

went to Oxfam in Chiswick last week. Had to queue as only 5 customers allowed in the shop. Then advised if someone is looking at the CD section you have to wait until they leave. When to the till. Served by a man(?) with a face mask AND a visor AND behind a perspex screen. May need to go back and record this.

68070 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to crimsonpirate, 9, #998 of 1641 🔗

You cannot be too careful in the current situation, I would say he is using the minimum PPE needed, if I were him I would be insisting on a hazmat suit at a minimum, probably with a change of suit every 30 minutes through the day.

68087 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #999 of 1641 🔗

Change of suit needed because he soils himself every time he comes face-to-face with a customer? Needs to change his job as well.

68119 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #1000 of 1641 🔗

We need to protect these frightened people. I suggest a new policy. The coronavirus (protection of the fearful and “responsible”) policy

1 Establish the identities of those who are frightened of this coronavirus by asking a few key questions.
2 Shelter those individuals by relieving them of their employment,and putting them at home on benefits.
3 Replace them in their jobs with people untroubled by any fear of this disease.

It’s compassionate and its pragmatic. What’s not to like?

68191 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, #1001 of 1641 🔗

Wouldn’t euthanasia for your first group be kinder? They obviously can’t cope any longer with Life

68072 ▶▶ Basics, replying to crimsonpirate, 5, #1002 of 1641 🔗

Our local organic shop has man barricaded into till position in similar way, including gloves. The more self consciously liberal the more stupidity/fear.

68117 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to crimsonpirate, 2, #1003 of 1641 🔗

Most charity shops around here are still closed, the elderly ladies who work there presumably still shielding hence your man.

68069 Moomin, 23, #1004 of 1641 🔗

Went into my local Sainsbury’s this evening at about 7.40 to get some wine! Fairly busy for that time of night, everyone, including staff, wearing masks. On the way out I saw two young lads unmasked but that was it! Then I overheard a member of staff saying to a customer she wanted to get a mask with a smile on it! It was very disheartening to be honest. Why are people going along with this? I have to say it is very bizarre to think that a sign of rebellion is going into a supermarket without a mask on! How is it that we can even think it’s courageous when it’s normal? What has happened to this country?

68076 steve, replying to steve, 6, #1005 of 1641 🔗

The videos linked to in the article are being removed as fast as people post them. They got 17 millions views in 8 hours before face bloke removed them.

Breitbart have them here

https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/07/27/facebook-censors-viral-video-of-doctors-capitol-hill-coronavirus-press-conference/

Also full (veeerrry long versions here)

https://www.cryptogon.com/?p=58984

68530 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to steve, 1, #1006 of 1641 🔗

17 million views in just 8 hours is not a bad start, but we need a lot more people to see those videos to make a difference..

68080 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #1007 of 1641 🔗

Listening to LBC and they are talking to people who have lost jobs during the current situation.

One caller said she applied for a receptionist job, the company told her they had 400 applicants within 40 minutes of the job going online.

The *hit is going to hit the fan, will people wake up once they are unemployed and little chance of finding work?

I am not sure they will.

68082 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1008 of 1641 🔗

They will. Or at least enough of them will.

68108 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1009 of 1641 🔗

Was on Jeremy Vine Radio 2 today as well people not happy.

68138 ▶▶ assoc, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1010 of 1641 🔗

It would be nice to think that the Labour Party might grow a pair and stand up for the newly unemployed (and I’m someone who until recently would describe myself as being Tory to my fingertips).

68171 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to assoc, 3, #1011 of 1641 🔗

Worse than useless.As fascism is unveiled before their eyes nothing but silence.

68083 swedenborg, 2, #1012 of 1641 🔗

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article?fbclid=IwAR3Foc66W8NK7mGJCC79-UCNQ1oKgZgGPRwF9zjcAA3EYh8dd5sEKWi7p6U

Important article CDC May 2020 showing no effect masks in influenza. But they say it is not the flu?

“ Here, we review the evidence base on the effectiveness of nonpharmaceutical personal protective measures and environmental hygiene measures in nonhealthcare settings and discuss their potential inclusion in pandemic plans. Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. We similarly found limited evidence on the effectiveness of improved hygiene and environmental cleaning.”

68092 Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 30, #1013 of 1641 🔗

It seems to appear that the government is operating a scorched earth policy to the economy.It seems whole sectors are to be destroyed.Aviation,travel and tourism.public transportation the arts spectator sport.etc.I can’t believe they are so stupid to do all this for the sake of this virus which is equivalent to seasonal flu,which despite their pronouncements they know is the truth.
They also are not so stupid to believe they can get away with destroying the economy in this way.
So what is their plan,I cant believe it’s all for a vaccine although this will happen.
I think what we are seeing is a whole new way of living being instituted under cover of this virus worldwide.
The end of freedom as we know it and everything that makes life worth living.

68093 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 7, #1014 of 1641 🔗

If you are correct, then I give it a year before it all falls apart. The cracks are showing already!

68094 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 10, #1015 of 1641 🔗

I see what you describe has a lot of substance to it. Scorched earth is a good description of what we are seeing. It is a fight that has been put upon us.

68099 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 18, #1016 of 1641 🔗

It’s impossible to assign any rationale to the government’s actions.

There is evidence the government was resisting lockdown but caved in to Macron’s threat to close the channel ports and channel tunnel which would have caused chaos and social meltdown. The government then possibly had a sort of nervous breakdown when so many key players went down with virus and the PM came close to death.

Perhaps paranoia set in at that point. As things stand it seems the government is actively seeking to destroy our economy.

68100 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 2, #1017 of 1641 🔗

Not sure how much substance was in Micron’s threat, if that is what it was. Reported variously as closing the ports, or merely restricting travellers from the UK. A full economic closure would have been a casus belli, so that is probably unlikely.
Edit: Reuters reported it as a restrictive measure against UK travellers to France.

68135 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1018 of 1641 🔗

Macron is a leading globalist. I think it was a threat to cargo as well as people.

68101 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to OKUK, 2, #1019 of 1641 🔗

Maybe but why are we marching in lockstep with other countries in the idiocy of Covid responses.They are not all stupid

68113 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1020 of 1641 🔗

Similar panic response, similar need to cover up, mostly, I suspect.

68127 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark, 11, #1021 of 1641 🔗

It’s gone beyond panic.There is real vindictiveness behind a lot of the policies now.Leicester lockdown and the return of quarantine with Spain 2 examples.

68130 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 14, #1022 of 1641 🔗

I suspect any panic over the virus’s direct effects is long gone. Now it’s panic about what will happen if people ever calm down enough to think about what has been done to them….

The latter panic probably a lot more justified than the former ever was.

68190 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Mark, 5, #1023 of 1641 🔗

Got it in one. Plus, for many talentless, squalid little politicians everywhere, the intoxication of unlimited power.

68173 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #1024 of 1641 🔗

We’re all controlled by the same A-holes behind the curtains.This is manufactured incompetence once again, and no one responsible will be demoted or even held responsible. We’re giving them a mile right out the gate, and what they wind up taking away for good will soon come to light. We must stand and fight or kiss our normal lives goodbye forever.

68522 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1025 of 1641 🔗

There is a plan called Lockstep…

68112 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to OKUK, 2, #1026 of 1641 🔗

The Macron threat iirc was one of the three things that David Starkey suggested triggered the key panic decision, and his argument is still pretty plausible:

https://youtu.be/8S8Js-tEmlg?t=507

But it’s not an excuse for the government, of course. The fact that they allowed such an implausible threat to contribute to their panicking merely affirms their moral and leadership failure.

68104 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1027 of 1641 🔗

Maybe once wrecked they will sell out to the Chinese with some very large brown envelopes, three years should be plenty.

68110 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to karenovirus, 7, #1028 of 1641 🔗

These people are not governing in the interests of the British people that is for sure.

68277 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1029 of 1641 🔗

I’m sorry but I’m just not convinced by theories of some plot to quash democracy. There has been crass opportunism from scum like Gates and big pharma, and hideous incompetence from many governments, but there just seems to be precious little coordination anywhere. Even the incompetent governments are exhibiting different kinds of incompetence and to different extents. The WHO keeps changing the narrative depending on which way the wind is blowing, which shouldn’t be happening either if there is some globalist plot.

68287 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #1030 of 1641 🔗

there just seems to be precious little coordination anywhere.

One hundred and forty countries. 140. Yet ‘precious little’ ?!

68293 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to JohnB, #1031 of 1641 🔗

“precious little coordination”

The few countries that haven’t joined in are vilified. IMF won’t give loans to countries if they don’t enforce a hard lockdown .

68294 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1032 of 1641 🔗

Meant for DoesDimSyniad

68842 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #1033 of 1641 🔗

Democracy? I think I remember my history teacher talking about that…

68095 Nick Rose, 25, #1034 of 1641 🔗

One unforeseen consequence of lockdown for me personally has been how little of my wages I’ve actually spent over the past four months. As I’m not registered for online banking, I had to go into a bank branch to transfer money. The nearest branch still open is over the border in England. So…

Greeter: Excuse me, Sir, have you got a mask? You should be wearing a mask.

Me: It’s all right thank you, I’ve come to make a deposit, not a withdrawal.

68096 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1035 of 1641 🔗

JP Sears is on top form.

Just get on with life and enjoy what we have.

https://youtu.be/lcX9HBG4L34

68189 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #1036 of 1641 🔗

That’s the odd thing about zombies, the way they call for a perpetual living death.
They can have it.
We will go on living life.

68097 Steve, replying to Steve, 28, #1037 of 1641 🔗

Experiences from the front lines: Day 5 after mask.

At work today, almost none of the staff wearing a mask (except probably the youngest member in the store), for the customers there was maybe 50-60% wearing masks at lunch time and over those most weren’t wearing them correctly (just covering the mouth, not the nose).

Out delivering things are basically back to normal. Very few mask or glove wearers now, little social distancing any more, most people laughing at the silliness such as taking a picture instead of signing. Traffic is terrible now, worse I think than before lockdown, presumably no one is using public transport.

After work filled up the car at about 8.15pm, no one wearing masks at the Shell garage on the way home. Went to the local Asda to pick up some paprika, mask wearing conspicuously absent. Clearly the mask rebels are more active at dusk.

On the whole generally encouraging. I suspect this whole mask thing will slowly die out over the next couple of weeks as people start forgetting or just get fed up. Until the next public health scare I suppose…

68102 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve, 4, #1038 of 1641 🔗

Was the rain that did for masks around here, at least on the pavements.

68188 ▶▶ annie, replying to Steve, #1039 of 1641 🔗

Good to hear, Steve, thank you,

68114 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 8, #1040 of 1641 🔗

Anyone else feel like they have woken up from a sleep induced coma and are now playing the lead role in the film Idiocracy?

https://youtu.be/l7ICZHPPTtY

Apologies in advance for lowering the average IQ on this thread.

68125 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Howie59, 3, #1041 of 1641 🔗

I wish I could wake up and find it was all a dream.

Idiocracy looks like light relief from cv19

68134 ▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #1042 of 1641 🔗

The fact that we can draw parallels to this nonsense film is the most frightening aspect to all of this. To say we are ruled by idiots does a disservice to idiots.

68140 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Howie59, 1, #1043 of 1641 🔗

I feel the statistics we are supposed to believe in are about as convincing as the computer graphics in that film!

68115 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 7, #1044 of 1641 🔗

I got a flat tire on the way home yesterday. Today I went to the closest bicycle repair shop to have it repaired and was stunned to see a guy come outside with a spray bottle and squirt some sort of disinfectant liquid all over my bicycle.

68132 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1045 of 1641 🔗

That is pretty funny actually.

68161 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to richard riewer, 8, #1046 of 1641 🔗

I thought it was the car-onavirus. How could your bicycle get infected.

68214 ▶▶ Little Red Hen, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1047 of 1641 🔗

You are going to hate me… 😬
It’s ‘tyre’.
Unless you are American, and then ‘tire’ is fine.

68283 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Little Red Hen, #1048 of 1641 🔗

I think Richard is indeed across the pond.

68121 Biker, 8, #1049 of 1641 🔗

I’ve started calling them ‘Masked Potatoes’

68133 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1050 of 1641 🔗

Some professional claimed today that obese people are costing the NHS 6 billion pounds a year. How did she arrive at that number?

68136 ▶▶ assoc, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1051 of 1641 🔗

Only six billion? You don’t get much for that these days!

68187 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to assoc, 9, #1052 of 1641 🔗

With fat people you have to allow for inflation.

68137 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1053 of 1641 🔗

Diabetes costs about £11 billion. There is a strong link between obesity and diabetes. Obese people are more susceptible to heart disease, cancer, fractures, circulatory issues – and of course Covid19. £6 billion sounds like an underestimate to me.

68139 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to richard riewer, 9, #1054 of 1641 🔗

Yeah you know what costs the NHS more?

Unemployed people.

68141 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Farinances, 3, #1055 of 1641 🔗

We will soon have plenty of those.

68176 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to richard riewer, 1, #1056 of 1641 🔗

Do they pay extra taxes to fund the NHS like smokers and drinkers ? There’s the extra food I suppose

68197 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1057 of 1641 🔗

Probably using the same mathematical technique that is currently saying we are all going to hell in a hand cart and will be soon dropping like flies when this terrible mystery second wave hits us. Second spike? one is tempted to suggest somewhere that this second ‘spike’ could go or whose head could be put on it.

68797 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Steve Martindale, #1058 of 1641 🔗

I imagine they all sit there arguing over which ridiculous hypoerbolic term to use. Team Spike vs. Team Wave

“But…..but a spike is more deadly!”
“But a wave OVERWHELMS!”

68142 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1059 of 1641 🔗

Where do the droplets go? Are they laser guided like Cruise missiles?

68143 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1060 of 1641 🔗

Depends upon the day of the week, how Boris slept the night before, “The science” and what Billy boy says.

68198 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1061 of 1641 🔗

‘I read it in the daily news’ there coming in on the second wave carrying their second spikes, if they do not get you from the front they will get you from behind …… we are all doomed!

This wallowing in gloom reminds me of a rhyme my father in law used to say;
Here we sit in grief and pain
over the road they suffer the same
but next door (ha-ha) they suffer more

68147 sam, replying to sam, 17, #1062 of 1641 🔗

doctors video here
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/press/youtube-is-engaged-in-sedition-to-overthrow-the-government/

Youtube Has Removed the Video of the Front Line Doctors calling it FAKE news because it challenges not just the WHO, but Bill Gates, the entire Democratic position against Trump, and the media itself which refuses to allow any contrary view. The freedom of spe4ech does not allow Google, Youtube, CNN, Washington Post to deliberately censor news. This is becoming very abusive and clearly a threat to National Security. I would charge those with sedition and force them to prove that the information in this video is wrong. The latest polls now show that this has been a threat to national security for over 60% of conservatives are afraid to express their true political views. If Russia was doing this, these same media outlets would be demanding war.

It is up to the people to believe or disbelieve this video. This is no different than how the communists controlled the press to create the Communist Revolution in Russia.

68212 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to sam, 5, #1063 of 1641 🔗

The BBC mention the video and say this;

According to the Daily Beast, Dr Immanuel has previously claimed the government is run by “reptilians” and that scientists are developing a vaccine to stop people being religious, among other bizarre views.

That is the best they could come up with? Staggering.

68153 sam, #1064 of 1641 🔗

It will only end when the people stop complying
Otherwise it wil go on until we ahve all been vaccinated with Gates experimantal RNA vaccines

68169 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 4, #1065 of 1641 🔗

Here is Matt Hancock’s academic and post-academic CV:
He has a background in finance, studying philosophy, politics and economics at the University of Oxford before completing a masters in economics from the University of Cambridge. He initially worked as an economist for the Bank of England, before becoming chief of staff to then shadow chancellor, George Osborne. In 2010, Mr Hancock was elected MP for West Suffolk, and since then has worked in several government departments including the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, and the Department of Energy and Climate Change .

68204 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to richard riewer, 12, #1066 of 1641 🔗

It never ceases to amaze me how many people study philosophy without an ounce of wisdom ever rubbing off on them.

68217 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Ben Shirley, 1, #1067 of 1641 🔗

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle,
And Hobbes was fond of his Dram.
And René Descartes was a drunken fart:
“I drink, therefore I am.”

68230 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ben Shirley, 5, #1068 of 1641 🔗

Oxford PPE is like Art History, a Mickey Mouse degree for posh thick people.

68221 ▶▶ Biker, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1069 of 1641 🔗

I bet Hancock has a masters in Economics and yet will never read the Austrian school nor Adam Smith.

68231 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to richard riewer, 3, #1070 of 1641 🔗

I’m taken aback by the fact Handjob did philosophy and economics. Hands down, he has shown the least (almost zero) insight into the government’s narrow-minded focus on health over and above everything else including wellbeing and wealth.

Amazing.

68274 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to richard riewer, 2, #1071 of 1641 🔗

Going from his CV, I really couldn’t think of a better man than Handcock to manage the national fight against a virus.

68763 ▶▶▶ DavidC, replying to Two-Six, #1072 of 1641 🔗

My thoughts exactly!

DavidC

68762 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to richard riewer, #1073 of 1641 🔗

A masters in economics and everything he advocated and forcefully implemented is against economic principles. Save a Nation.

68178 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 6, #1074 of 1641 🔗

Headline in todays Graun
“We are entering an era of Pandemics.
Only saving the rainforest can stop it”.

Did these people learn nothing at school ?

68186 ▶▶ annie, replying to karenovirus, 14, #1075 of 1641 🔗

They learned how to keep zombies in a state of perpetual terror..
Don’t miss this week’s exciting new pandemic!
Subscribe now and get a year’s worth of pandemics for half price!

PS. I’m all for saving trees, Abolishing the Grauniad would save quite a few.

68271 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1076 of 1641 🔗

What?? “It’s anewspaper Jim but not as we know it.”

68182 PlaceboTime, replying to PlaceboTime, 5, #1077 of 1641 🔗

Is it just me, or is it might conveient for the Spanish government that the apparent spikes they’ve seen (probably just increased testing) have been in Catalonia, where the separatists are. Does anyone think it might just be the Spanish government trying to clamp down on local dissent?

68224 ▶▶ IanE, replying to PlaceboTime, 3, #1078 of 1641 🔗

Could be – but if so our stupid government’s reaction has caused much Spanish weeping in the government! It is now pretty clear that tests should be reduced to a minimum and the massaging of data should be in the opposite direction.

68183 Gossamer, replying to Gossamer, 9, #1079 of 1641 🔗

“Is there anybody listening?
Is there anyone that sees what’s going on?
Read between the lines
Criticize the words they’re selling
Think for yourself and feel the walls
Become sand beneath your feet

Feel the breeze?
Time’s so near you can almost taste the freedom
There’s a warm wind from the south
Hoist the sail and we’ll be gone
By morning this will all seem like a dream
And if I don’t return to sing the song
Maybe just as well
I’ve seen the news and there’s
Not much I can do…alone

Is there anybody listening?
Is there anyone who smiles without a mask?
What’s behind the words-images
They know will please us?
I’ll take what’s real. Bring up the lights…”

Lyrics from Anybody Listening (1990) by Queensryche.

68207 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Gossamer, 2, #1080 of 1641 🔗

From their”Empire” album. A personal favourite. Good spot Gossamer!

68552 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Fiat, #1081 of 1641 🔗

And from their slightly earlier Operation: Mindcrime album, there are also the lyrics to Revolution Calling. Totally relevant!

68184 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 8, #1082 of 1641 🔗

Half price restaurant meals from next week mon-weds.
I just clicked on a link taking me to a listing of outlets taking part, about 100 within 5 miles.
The list is hosted by

HM.GOV.TAX.SERVICE

Bet they will love all those Track’n’Trace details.

68199 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to karenovirus, 6, #1083 of 1641 🔗

That’s why we’re not signing up to this. Plus, when have you ever known a government department refund your money quickly.

68219 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to kh1485, 7, #1084 of 1641 🔗

I’m seeing a lot of small shops with signs saying cash only, i hope you’re doing that. All it will take is one card user to test positive in one of them fake test and you’re shut down and you’ll have to isolate for two weeks.

68278 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 1, #1085 of 1641 🔗

Real foods have a sign up saying no cash – when questioned the mask wearing, glove totin, behind a perspex screen hidin till guy he replied – we prefer cards but accept cash. The sign there only for its own health he implied. Lots of bareface fun to be had in real foods it always did need a kick in the metophrica balls.

68185 nfw, replying to nfw, 13, #1086 of 1641 🔗

There’s no two ways about it that if during WW2 Germany had invaded the UK the Gestapo would have had its work cut out for it. Not chasing down partisans, but rather using all the grassers information it would have been subsumed by. The SS would not have had to have an secret informant network of spies, they would have had too many applicants.

68261 ▶▶ Cody, replying to nfw, 6, #1087 of 1641 🔗

Nah,that generation had fighting spirit and a backbone. If they wanted to try again now however…….

68395 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Cody, #1088 of 1641 🔗

Have you seen the Germany army recently? At least ours looks (and has proved) equal to a challenge.

68200 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 37, #1089 of 1641 🔗

I read a rather nonsensical letter in yesterday’s DT from a surgeon arguing that those of us not wanting to wear a face-mask would be both uncomfortable and unwilling to undergo an operation if the surgeon were un-masked. Er … yes.

Jeez, I hope this guy never operates on me, if he really can’t see the distinction. As far as I know, when I am walking around the People’s Republic of North West Essex, I am not in the vicinity of people with gaping open wounds that could easily be infected. And, I am not in the same locale as them for more than a few seconds. Again, I despair …

68201 ▶▶ annie, replying to kh1485, 11, #1090 of 1641 🔗

NHS brainwashing is evidently no respecter of brain size.

68266 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 1, #1091 of 1641 🔗

The bigger the brain the better it works.

68211 ▶▶ matt, replying to kh1485, 17, #1092 of 1641 🔗

This person chose to become a surgeon in the full knowledge that it involved wearing a surgical mask while operating. It’s no kind of equivalence.

68216 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to kh1485, 9, #1093 of 1641 🔗

Very little evidence that masks make a difference even with surgery. Stay away from doctors! (and DT and BBC …)

68239 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 2, #1094 of 1641 🔗

Believe me, after the horrors I have witnessed, I intend to …

68226 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 3, #1095 of 1641 🔗

He’s probably retired, Doctors and Nurses now have to wear them all the time at work, not just in the operating room.

68758 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to kh1485, #1096 of 1641 🔗

Stay away from this surgeon. If he does not know that surgical masks are there to prevent gob and sweat to fall into an open wound then he is severely incompetent. Maybe one of the vaginal mess implant doctors.

68206 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 16, #1097 of 1641 🔗

For any still looking for answers, and hope, as I am, the splendid Mr Young provided a link to this interesting article the other day, ‘The Covid Coup’:

‘What history will record as the great COVID scam of 2020 is based on 1) a set of untruths and baseless assertions—often outright lies—about the novel coronavirus and its effects; 2) the production and maintenance of physical fear through a near-monopoly of communications to forestall challenges to the U.S.. ruling class, led by the Democratic Party, 3) defaulted opposition on the part of most Republicans, thus confirming their status as the ruling class’s junior partner. No default has been greater than that of America’s Christian churches—supposedly society’s guardians of truth.’

‘The governors and officials who imposed, maintain, and rationalize the lockdowns are all but one (Ohio’s) Democrats. Their counter-factual assumptions/pretenses/convictions, their misrepresentations, their falsehoods and outright lies, are all about their social class’s effort to secure their privileges against an increasingly recalcitrant general population.’

https://americanmind.org/essays/the-covid-coup/

And, translated to Europe, the same holds true:

The major protagonists in Europe are China (WHO in their pocket) Merkel, Macron, all of whom are anti Trump. It is they who bounced this country into lockdown.

Where is the opposition in Britain to all of this? There is none. There can be none, because this country is no longer a nation, has not been now for a very long time

I first realised that twenty years or so ago standing in central London as the Battle of Britain flight flew over. Not one person looked up.

Scotland a nation? Real independence movements based on nationhood look like Ukraine, over 90% in favour….not a will we won’t we yes we will no we won’t shilly shallying based on perceived pecuniary advantage…..

Britain is a country divided into separate interest groups. As someone once said of America, ‘America is not a country, it’s a business’. So, now, is Britain. 34% of the national product belongs to a heavily unionised public sector. The state broadcaster is public sector, heavily unionised. Education is state owned, heavily unionised. The health service is state owned, heavily unionised. Why is unionisation important? The clue is in the name: union, united in thought and direction. These are all separate fiefdoms with their own agendas, quite separate from the rest of the country but easily manipulated by central government. We live not in a country but in ‘Big State’

Who can resist big state when the major broadcaster is state owned and its major competitor shares its political stance in a U.S. election year. Who can resist big state in a minor medical emergency when all health professionals are forbidden from briefing on what is actually going on in hospitals across the land? Who can resist big state when education unions prevent schools from re-opening….and so on and so forth….

The only hope may be that the youngest generations can now see, as others before them saw in the 1970s, the perils of monolithic inflexible illiberal and anti democratic blocs with too much influence on the levers of power; the threat of international blocs united in their hatred putting their citizens interests way behind their own petty animosities.

Only the other day, over 40% of Britain’s voters actually voted for Corbynism. This weird period has now given the country a mercifully mild dose of what would have transpired, writ large, had that strange individual actually won an election……

Democratic forces move slowly, but they move inexorably….. Democracy: The least worst form of government…….

68218 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #1098 of 1641 🔗

Hmm, I think that last bit should read, “Democratic forces are crushed slowly, but they are crushed inexorably….. Democracy: The least likely form of government…….”

68335 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to IanE, #1099 of 1641 🔗

Democracy has put us in this position and, after 03 Nov., will get us out of it but whether what follows is any better…….

Democracy: The least etc.

68389 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Tim Bidie, #1100 of 1641 🔗

Perhaps there is some hope

Sergiu Kleinerman.Professor of Mathematics,Princeton Univ,one of the most leading mathematicians in the world sticks out his neck about cancel culture
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/07/cancel-culture-democrat-belongs-in-dustbin-history/
https://quillette.com/2020/07/27/princeton-university-is-one-of-the-least-racist-institutions-in-the-world/

68633 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to swedenborg, #1101 of 1641 🔗

Brilliant!

In all this frenzy of name changes, one culprit is conspicuously missing. Up to the 1960s the Democratic Party was the party of slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, the Ku Klux Klan, lynching, poll taxes, and literacy tests for voting. The first Confederate Congress was dominated by former Democrats.’

Who knew?

Both links excellent, extremely interesting. Many thanks.

68213 Humanity First, #1102 of 1641 🔗

“The enemy of America… is a radical network of terrorists, and every government that supports them…Americans are asking, why do they hate us?… They hate our freedoms – our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other.”

(President George Bush, State of the Union Address. 20 September 2001)

68236 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to stefarm, 2, #1104 of 1641 🔗

BBC has totally lost credibility by using the expression discredited treatment.They can’t even use a more neutral term “controversial treatment”.Reisch article is published in a peer rewied publication.

68227 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 36, #1107 of 1641 🔗

Looking at the Anna Brees guest videos, I find myself wincing when some of them say things that I know a ‘normal’ person would regard as tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff. But when I do that, it’s really because I’m imagining my own friends and family looking over my shoulder as I watch it.

In my own mind, I am no longer sure what constitutes insane conspiracy stuff. After all, while friends and family would scoff at what is being said, it is they who are literally asking themselves “Am I allowed to go and see Gladys today? What are the current instructions from that nice Mr. Johnson? Will I have to wear a mask and sit in the garden? Will I be allowed to use the toilet?”. It is they who are queuing to go into the local shop, standing on marks on the pavement and sweating under a ‘face covering’, not recognising their friend standing next to them, knowing that if they take their mask off, a policeman may demand their papers and issue a fine. It is they who will not be going to the village concert this year – there may never be one ever again. Their kids will not be going back to school in September, having spent six months without contact with people their own age. They will probably lose their job, soon, and their holiday abroad has been cancelled because of quarantining rules. If they go to the pub, they will have to give their name and address and sit at a pre-booked table so the authorities can track and trace them. There is no indication from the friendly authorities of any time limit or conditions necessary to make it stop. It is openly acknowledged that the authorities are fiddling the figures. Anyone with half a brain can see the omissions and linking together of irrelevant ‘facts’ that create a false narrative. And a computer tycoon is informing them via the media, quite openly, that he is preparing to vaccinate them repeatedly, every year.

And they happily accept this, and regard the person who questions it as crazy!

68258 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Barney McGrew, #1108 of 1641 🔗

Crazy eh?

68585 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, #1109 of 1641 🔗

At this point I’m not dismissing anything bar the 5g bollocks. (John incoming….. Luvyababe).

68228 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 14, #1110 of 1641 🔗

In the interest of my blood pressure I have had to turn off the news and am currently listening to Bob Marley singing about songs of freedom. But anyway we can comfort ourselves that Boris is a fan of Winston Churchill;

We will run like hell from the second wave on the beaches
We will cower with terror before the second spikes
we will sacrifice our old people in the care homes
like craven fools we will quake in our sitting rooms
anyone venturing abroad will have to lock themselves away in misery
we will run a dodgy witch hunting test system
and worry ourselves silly when we find witches in every broom cupboard
we will spend millions on a vaccine
but the virus will probably have mutated by then
I can offer you nothing but abject misery, defeatism and financial penury
and in all this remember the words of my good friend private Fraser
‘WE ARE ALL DOOMED’

68244 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Steve Martindale, 9, #1111 of 1641 🔗

What a horrible disappointment BJ has been.

68589 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1112 of 1641 🔗

Understatement of the year

68232 Rabbit, #1114 of 1641 🔗

Bed wetters can now check online how busy the shopping centre is before venturing out:

https://www.getreading.co.uk/whats-on/shopping/heres-how-avoid-busiest-shopping-18668766.amp

68234 TJN, replying to TJN, 7, #1115 of 1641 🔗

Just been listening briefly to The Today Programme – the 8:10 interview set up and conducted by Robinson somebody-or-other from the WHO.

The BBC must be stopped. Defunded, shut down.

68240 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to TJN, #1116 of 1641 🔗

They needn’t worry, it’s pretty dead and at least a couple of restaurants and Debenhams have closed.

68241 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to TJN, #1117 of 1641 🔗

Sorry hit reply to my own post but clicked on yours by accident.

68383 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to TJN, #1118 of 1641 🔗

Stop paying for a licence and watching live TV.

68421 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #1119 of 1641 🔗

Already have, ages ago, on the principle that the BBC was misguided. I now think they are evil. This was radio btw.

68235 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 6, #1120 of 1641 🔗

At Waitrose in the People’s Republic of North West Essex, the bouncers on the door are now using a loudhailer so that deaf people can hear their instructions. Just when I think …

68238 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to kh1485, 2, #1121 of 1641 🔗

Is this in preparation for the mythical 2nd wave, compulsory mask, gloves and headphones. Real Guantanamo stuff

68242 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to stefarm, 2, #1122 of 1641 🔗

Well, the voice of the woman who is wielding it certainly needs no amplification, as I can attest to from my miserable experience of a few weeks ago!

68255 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to stefarm, 2, #1123 of 1641 🔗

Covids can get in your ears!

68380 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Two-Six, #1124 of 1641 🔗

Pardon, say that again…..

68250 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 3, #1125 of 1641 🔗

I’ve been to two branches of Waitrose here and its been OK. It’s a shock that your local one is akin to a Soviet Gulag or Nazi concentration camp.

68270 ▶▶ Basics, replying to kh1485, 4, #1126 of 1641 🔗

At Waitrose in the People’s Republic of North West Essex, the bouncers on the door are now using a loudhailer so that … everyone knows never to shop at waitrose again.

68376 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, #1127 of 1641 🔗

Whenever I see anyone with a loudhailer all I can think of is putting it somewhere that doesn’t get much light for them.

68752 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to kh1485, #1128 of 1641 🔗

After my experience at Waitrose this morning, will definitely not be going back

68237 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1129 of 1641 🔗

This is appalling. Is this what society has come to?

https://twitter.com/LeahButlerSmith/status/1288205137492824070

If the world as we know it collapses then this crisis is our sack of Rome (410 AD) moment.

68276 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #1131 of 1641 🔗

I don’t have the words.

68284 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to matt, 5, #1132 of 1641 🔗

Haven’t been shopping unmasked yet, but I will do, probably today. My only real *fear* is that I will headbut someone who challenges me. I hope to smile and say “I’m exempt, thanks”. But…

68323 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1133 of 1641 🔗

If it’s any reassurance, I haven’t seen anything remotely like this “in real life” and nor has anybody else here. Like you, though, I do worry that at some point, something is going to nudge me off the knife edge I’ve been living in for the past few weeks and I will completely lose it.

68381 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, #1134 of 1641 🔗

What a despicable woman,I hope that karma exists,shame she doesn’t realise the Chinese made piece of crap she has wrapped around her foul mouth is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

68378 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, #1135 of 1641 🔗

Bloody awful,if I see anyone being abused by bullies like that I will intervene,sod the consequences.

68243 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #1136 of 1641 🔗

Has anyone yet been fined for contravening the masking law? Does anyone know?

68251 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1137 of 1641 🔗

Think there was one, poss in Scotland.

68265 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Sam Vimes, #1138 of 1641 🔗

Yes, that case was mentioned on this site a couple of days ago. Enforcement seems to rely on a climate of unpleasantness. It is the law but not as we usually know it Jim , sorry Sam.

68272 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1139 of 1641 🔗

Visited Jedburgh abt 3 years ago, while staying in Wark on Tweed. So, if there’s an outbreak, it’s probably my fault. That’s at least as scientific as what we are hearing…

68292 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, #1140 of 1641 🔗

Would add that I don’t know anyof the details but the person fined must have put up a good and meaningful protest to get the fine. They must have tried pretty hard.

68312 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, #1141 of 1641 🔗

If you try to explain that it is all wrong – which of course it is – you are refusing and therefore breaking the (ridiculous) law. “I am exempt” is the way to go.

68357 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Basics, #1142 of 1641 🔗

I wonder if he had committed some other genuine misdemeanour and the book was being thrown at him. E.g. allowing a car engine to idle unnecessarily is against the law but I’ve only once read of it being enforced as one of two or three breaches a motorist had committed.

68268 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, #1143 of 1641 🔗

It was in Jedburgh.

68245 Tyneside Tigress, 10, #1144 of 1641 🔗

A couple of (un)related things on vaccines. Interesting article on ZeroHedge with comments from Robert Kennedy Jr – not an antivaxxer, but certainly aware of many issues with the current crop of vaccines, vaccine strategy and the BigPharma bandwagon from a legal perspective:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/kennedy-jr-warns-parents-about-danger-using-largely-untested-covid-vaccines-kids

Secondly, is it not interesting that we have been signed up to another vaccine, that being developed by GSK-Sanofi. Agreement between GSK and Sanofi for production (and testing in the UK) signed in April. Now, is it being produced at the Barnard Castle site, you know, where people go to test their eyes?

Finally, why aren’t the journos asking about the 10 people testing positive who returned from Spain since early July, and who apparently prompted the panic quarantine measures. Were they Spanish or British nationals, or, indeed, season fruit pickers transferring from northern Catalunya to new sites in the UK? Can the statisticians within Cabinet and the scientific advisers please explain how 10 positive tests of some 12000 positive tests in that period (20 days at around 600 per day) is statistically significant?

Assume points 2 and 3 are related, as indeed is today’s publication from the select committee on government’s handling of care homes!

68246 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1145 of 1641 🔗

I asked this just yesterday:

“Boris ‘worried about second wave in Europe’… imminent official UK second wave, anybody?”
(not exactly my own idea)

And here we go:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-53575653

68254 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1146 of 1641 🔗

Radio 4 Today all about the Second Wave, how bad it will be and how inevitable. Then an item about something else followed by a second Govt. mouth telling us how it was so essential to keep all their special measures to keep us safe.

68275 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1147 of 1641 🔗

You don’t believe it do you? But you watch, in winter there will be people coughing, and and sneezing and and, well I bet it will rain and snow – OMG it’s going to be awful, we will all die, like we just have done…

68303 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1148 of 1641 🔗

If the Government was so worried about a 2nd wave why are they no promoting vitamin supplements, zinc, a good diet, fresh air and exercise, less stress, proper sleep and good mental well being?

All these things have a HUGE impact on people ability to fend off seasonal colds.

It’s because big pharma can’t make any money of out these things. Obviously.

68326 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1149 of 1641 🔗

Same reason they wanted us to stay indoors over the glorious Easter weekend. Can’t have people building their vitamin D.

68364 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1150 of 1641 🔗

But he’s literally just told everyone to go back to work!

I’m so utterly sick of this all by now.

68249 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 22, #1151 of 1641 🔗

Begging letter from the Conservative party in the post. Sending it back in the prepaid envelope.

68257 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 4, #1152 of 1641 🔗

Excellent!

68288 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1153 of 1641 🔗

Sounds like anybody unlucky enough to recieve a £100 nappy crime fine and refused to pay would have a reasonable defence in court…

68349 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #1154 of 1641 🔗

ooops…. wrong place

68339 ▶▶ GLT, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1155 of 1641 🔗

That’s more likely to get their attention!

68340 ▶▶ Richard, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #1156 of 1641 🔗

Very good work !

68252 Sam Vimes, 8, #1157 of 1641 🔗

Very soon, now:

“A few selfish people haven’t been wearing masks, and are responsible for this second wave and the [insert your own totally false scare story here]”

68259 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 1, #1158 of 1641 🔗

Hi, this might have been asked already, but what is the actual legislation about masks and how long is it supposed to last/what exactly has Boris Johnson said about how long they will last/does anyone have a reliable source that states that it contravenes the Nuremberg and Human Rights legislation? Thanks. I’m asking since I speak to lots of people who think it’s not such a big deal and that it’s not going to last, which I disagree with!

68260 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Moomin, 2, #1159 of 1641 🔗

laworfiction.com should have some answers about what is actually law and what is just government lies!

68262 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #1160 of 1641 🔗

Thanks. Just watched this and it’s sparked my interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgPEUIN9abI&t=52s

68351 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Moomin, #1161 of 1641 🔗

Sounds like anybody unlucky enough to recieve a £100 nappy crime fine and refused to pay would have a reasonable defence in court…

68264 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Moomin, 3, #1162 of 1641 🔗

Its set to last a minimum of 6 months before review, the legislation doesn’t expire for 12 months, and they’ve already demonstrated they can just extend it at their own free will (nice that they still have free will) anyway. It’s here for a very long time.

68316 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Mark II, #1163 of 1641 🔗

Thanks. The laworfiction.com site doesn’t seem to be very clear. There’s nothing on human rights.

68263 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 14, #1164 of 1641 🔗

For the first time since it all started I managed to accidentally catch the BBC news corona broadcast yesterday evening, frightening how much it is imitating the worst visions film makers have had for their dystopian sci-fi nightmares.

Just that huw whats his face grimly reporting: ‘and todays coronavirus new case count is X, with Y numbers of deaths bringing our total dead to Z’

No mention of false positives, no mention of dodgy death counts, no mention of deaths being below average for 5 weeks now, no mention of other diseases far outstripping covid etc. It’s insane how obvious the brainwashing is on this, and it’s no wonder we’re fighting a losing battle, the power of the media & the state is fully focused on pushing this shit.

68290 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark II, 4, #1165 of 1641 🔗

Yep, it’s incredible that almost NOBODY can see this. Just beyond belief however if people do have any thoughts that “it” might be propaganda and “a bit of a conspiracy” then most people have to instantly dimiss this idea for their mental well being and to re-secure their perceived position in the world. To entertain such a thought will be almost impossible for most people because it will overturn almost all of their values and beliefs that they have invested in and developed for their whole lives.

68300 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Two-Six, 1, #1166 of 1641 🔗

And as time goes on it will become ever more difficult for the believers to admit to themselves they’ve been watching the king with no new clothes prancing by.

68267 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #1167 of 1641 🔗

So the 3hr video of the doctors in America talking about hydroxychloroquine, are they legitimate? Because I am always hesitant to believe one convincing person on Facebook, no matter how much I agree and it seems to make sense? She was still talking in anecdotes, can anyone link some studies which have any conclusions about HCQ, so I can see what they are claiming Vs what the media is intent on dismissing purely because Trump thinks so? I would normally believe them on something like this, but after the whole mask fiasco where they are blatantly lying to us, I cannot anymore.

68289 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Youth_Unheard, 2, #1168 of 1641 🔗

I haven’t watched that video and don’t know what they’re claiming but my impression is that HCQ works a bit (especially in conjunction with Zinc) but is not a miracle cure.

The MedCram videos on YouTube are a very good source of unbiased information on this kind of thing:

https://youtu.be/o5w7FiDJe1g

He mentions another study in episode 71. He gives all the links in the description but gives really good jargon-free explanations in the videos.

68318 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to guy153, #1169 of 1641 🔗

It needs to be used early from my understanding and is very successful if this is the case.

68330 ▶▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1170 of 1641 🔗

I read somewhere that countries that use it for malaria prophylaxis have very low Covid-19 death rates, orders of magnitude lower than the US and Europe.

68382 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to jrsm, #1171 of 1641 🔗

There could be plenty of other reasons for that though, which is why you need controlled trials. If the effect were orders of magnitude the trials that have been done would have found that. It makes sense that you would want to use it early. Another promising treatment that probably works if used early (posted here a week or so ago but also on MedCram episode 100) is inhaled Interferon-B, also known as SG-001.

68431 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to guy153, #1172 of 1641 🔗

I agree, but it might be more effective if you take it for a long time before you are challenged with the virus, and if taken by everyone or almost everyone it might produce a kind of “herd immunity” effect, stopping major outbreaks from occurring and therefore keeping death rates low. Probably those benefits wouldn’t be seen in most controlled trials.

68302 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #1173 of 1641 🔗

No idea if they were “real” doctors as not look into it but they have now been censored. That didn’t take long did it?

68368 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1174 of 1641 🔗

I’m pretty certain they were real doctors. One of them, Dr Ericsson has been on videos before and there have been no suggestions he isn’t even a doctor. The censorship of this video has been amazing with Youtube, Fb and Twitter all deleting the video. Even their website was taken down. Hcq was originally discredited due to a completely fraudulent study. Why should anyone bother to falsify data if it was ineffective? You wouldn’t need to bother. As mentioned above, countries in Sub-Saharan Africa have tiny levels of Covid deaths. Now there could be reasons other than hcq usage (younger population, inaccurate reporting of deaths) but the differences with Europe and the US are so stark that I’m not sure that the other reasons can account for all of it.

68506 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1175 of 1641 🔗

If they were not doctors and their statements could be easily ‘rubbished’, then their videos would not have been taken down!

68333 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #1176 of 1641 🔗

I think there is a reasonably large case study with the French Dr who prescribed HCQ. Anecdotal but quite large numbers.

Main point is that this is an incredibly safe drug that has been around for 65 years which doctors happily prescribe without prior testing or ongoing monitoring. The studies that have purported to show that it is dangerous in the treatment of Covid have been either fraudulent (Lancet study withdrawn) or have skewed methodology (high doses to severely ill patients). So the answer is that we don’t know how effective it might be as a prophylactic but we do know that it has been completely politicised and ‘the science’ appears to be completely side-lined.

68601 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to GLT, #1177 of 1641 🔗

It was available over the counter in France (around €3 for 30 tabs) until 15 January this year, when it was suddenly made prescription only and all stocks disappeared from pharmacies.
First recorded Covid case was 22 January .
There’s a coincidence for you!

68337 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Youth_Unheard, 3, #1178 of 1641 🔗

Ps the fact that the online platforms still allow access to the fraudulent Lancet study but not to these doctors says it all.

68269 Strange Days, replying to Strange Days, 6, #1179 of 1641 🔗

Brilliant comment from David Cooper on the Darren Grimes Con Home article:

“…There is a little known side effect from Covid that only affects politicians, by rendering them unable to distinguish parts of their own anatomy. They cannot even correctly express the time honoured governmental principle “cover your arse and save your face” without getting that one the wrong way round.”

Not a bad article either, it highlights the utterly contradictory headless chicken policies being imposed under the title:
“Hey folks, eat out and spend more – no, not you, fatty. And here’s a new tax for you, consumer-friendly online retailer.”

68286 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Strange Days, 1, #1180 of 1641 🔗

Much the same sentiments on Spiked, some of the comments are from familiar names.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/07/29/the-tories-have-lost-the-plot/

A gleam of hope when both ConHome and Spiked publish these views? I would like to think so

68279 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #1181 of 1641 🔗

From BBC (of course):

UK holidays: Nothing left or ‘it’s a ridiculous price’
Travel restrictions and the continuing coronavirus uncertainty have now persuaded Rachel it might be simpler to stay closer to home. But she never expected that finding somewhere to stay would be so difficult.”There just seems to be so little availability, at least not in Cornwall and Devon where I’ve been looking,” she says. “And the accommodation that is free is so expensive.”

Story mentions Sykes cottages, who we’ve used a few times. A quick look at their site shows exactly what you would expect price/availability wise for this time of year.

Just crap.

68557 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, #1182 of 1641 🔗

I’m definitely on the “fforce everyone to spend their money at home” train.

Interestingly, foreign holidays are now dirt cheap. Yesterday my dad found a package to Lesbos (holiday and flights) for all three of us for £650. That’s in an expensive hotel (4*), apartment rooms. Sea view. Breakfast included.

Last year, same holiday was double
the price. Thing that stopped us
booking is that there are no direct flights from the UK – you have to join the Dutch route (KLM) in Amsterdam and they are not telling you the flight details, very short notice flights will be acquired. This is telling I think. Your holiday is very cheap, but getting there is very risky/uncertain and inconvenient.

69012 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, #1183 of 1641 🔗

What do they expect? Most people will have booked holidays around the UK for the six week holidays anything between 6-12 months in advance. If you did the same search this time last year you would get the same result, hardly anything available, but what is will be bloody expensive!

68280 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #1184 of 1641 🔗

Don’t know about anyone else here, but I find myself sending emails off to people I know, trying to sound them out on their views on this. Basically hoping to find someone I can talk to about it.

Just got an email back from an old friend, in his fifties, university degree, left wing.

He says that “The general view around here is that if the lockdown had been imposed a week earlier, we wouldn’t be in this mess.” He is very dismissive of people who don’t want to wear masks – “…probably Brexiteers”.

Obviously, I can’t talk to him about it again – my blood pressure wouldn’t be able to take it. But just how does an intelligent person come to a view like that? I hadn’t previously considered that people might be thinking that bringing in the lockdown sooner would mean that we would now be in the clear.

Isn’t it obvious that the lockdown is a self-justifying ‘measure’? Logically*, if it doesn’t work, you need more severe lockdown, and if it does, you can’t lift it without a ‘second wave’ – and that’s before people with vested interests begin twisting the figures and so on. That is why it should have been avoided at all costs.

I honestly don’t know how people can end up so unconcerned about what is being cooked up in their name and which will determine their entire future.

*I hasten to add, I’m playing devil’s advocate in even giving it this much credence. I know that it isn’t even proven that a lockdown makes any difference to virus transmission; that even if it ‘worked’ it could, at the same time, have perverse effects on immunity in general, etc.

68285 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1185 of 1641 🔗

There’s a strange blindness in people. Unwillingness to see the truth, or maybe simply cannot perceive the truth. I do wonder whether sceptics alone are able to break the spell. It needs something much more powerful. But what?

68342 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #1186 of 1641 🔗

Facemasks and gloves mandated to be worn EVERYWHERE?

68291 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1187 of 1641 🔗

So, if lockdown started a week earlier, we wouldn’t now be subject to ridiculous measures being imposed, even when all indicators say it’s going away. Obvious, really!

68295 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #1188 of 1641 🔗

Just keep sending them this and ask for an explanation of what it means:

“On 21 July 2020 the Chief Medical Officer of England Dr Chris Whitty was questioned, on record, by the Parliamentary Committee for Health and Social Care. He said:
“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

Why does every single MSM outlet – TV, radio, newspaper, online – refuse to report this?”

Annoys the hell out of them as they cannot answer.

68331 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1189 of 1641 🔗

Tell your friend to look at what is happening in Romania, early hard lockdown closing down again because of resurgence.

68363 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1190 of 1641 🔗

The researchers from PANDA (S African group) when asked what single graph they would show to the lay person to explain what was going on, they answered the scatter graph of lockdown severity against deaths per million. There is zero correlation…it is like a Jackson pollack splatter. They even said that they had expected some correlation, albeit weak, but were astounded at how absent it is.

68375 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1191 of 1641 🔗

Vallance suggested same (‘week earlier’) to Parliamentary committee although Whitty later downplayed that. Point out maximun deaths on 8 April means maximum infections on 16th March (Great Incarceration started 23/24 March). PANDA’s plot mentioned below is good too.

68543 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #1192 of 1641 🔗

It’s in the SAGE minutes on like 16th March or thereabouts that the fabled R number was already below 1 (it being above 1 was one of the justifications for lockdown – but it wasn’t above 1 when they locked down!!)
Notably once Dolan forced them to release the SAGE docs, the narrative shifted from the R number to ‘cases’, ‘infections’ and now ‘positive tests’

68568 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Farinances, 1, #1193 of 1641 🔗

Sage never recommended lockdown.The impetus came from elsewhere.Political or sham science.I was told a week or 2 before lockdown via someone who works in the home office that the government we’re going for 12 week lockdown.

68574 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #1194 of 1641 🔗

Why? Why 12 weeks?

68420 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1195 of 1641 🔗

Ask them to explain what is going on in Spain then. They locked down earlier and harder than we did.

As far as I can see, all that lockdown will achieve is to kick the can down the road.

68503 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1196 of 1641 🔗

It has been proved and even admitted by Whitty that infections peaked before lockdown.Therefore,even using their own evidence the lockdown was pointless.We know it was worse that that because of the extra deaths it caused.This is a rewriting of history that we will hear more of soon.

68281 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #1197 of 1641 🔗

Utter rubbish about second wave .

68297 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #1198 of 1641 🔗

It’s based on TESTS now, LT, you know, things that are going up. Do keep up! 🙂

68616 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1199 of 1641 🔗

Agree

68296 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 19, #1200 of 1641 🔗

Feeling depressed this morning, so go easy on me.

Let’s be absolutely honest with ourselves and others. I’d be really interested in folks’ thoughts on this.

Is there ever a moment when you question yourself and wonder if “we” are wrong and “they” (the mask-wearers, pro-lockdowners, the scared -shitless of the virus etc) are (just maybe) right? Could the objective truth lie somewhere in the middle? What’s going on? I’ve lost faith in everything I believed in before and have no friends in the non-virtual world I can discuss this with. Should I seek psychiatric help?

68301 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Gillian, 16, #1201 of 1641 🔗

No. Absolutely not. We are right, but there are a hell of a lot of them. A worrying amount, for sure. But we are right. Beauty is truth, and truth beauty.

68304 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Gillian, 12, #1202 of 1641 🔗

I’ve done that numerous times in life. Truth is truth, even if only one person believes it and ten million do not. There is also a “knowing” in one’s heart.

68321 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to thedarkhorse, 9, #1203 of 1641 🔗

I think being here is mostly good. You get the facts that show you are right. But, you also get the facts that show just how mad the other lot are, and that can be depressing sometimes. But, again, that is just because of how bafflingly wrong they are. How does it go, “To thine own self be true” ?

68308 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Gillian, 12, #1204 of 1641 🔗

On your last question, please, please don’t.

I felt like this last week. I had to retreat away from it all for a few days and just do simple things like gardening and reading about the latest royal bust-up for light relief. I know what you mean though and it’s tough. However, I don’t think that we are wrong.

68309 ▶▶ matt, replying to Gillian, 17, #1205 of 1641 🔗

It’s completely normal to question yourself when it feels like you’re the only sane person in a sea of madness. Take comfort in the knowledge that what you see here is mostly based on fact, but the insanity of those on the other side is mostly based on a feedback loop of fear and sensationalised propaganda.

I do think we have a tendency here to overstate the position (I’m as guilty as anyone) – the virus isn’t as completely irrelevant as we might sometimes suggest – and so the truth does lie somewhere in between, but it’s far closer to where we are than to the beliefs of the panickers.

68610 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to matt, 2, #1206 of 1641 🔗

Earlier on, I had plenty of moments of self-doubt when I thought “maybe I’m just a delusional contrarian after all” but as the facts have become clearer and clearer over the last couple of months, I don’t often feel that way any more!

Reading about the 2009 swine flu also helped ( https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/reconstruction-of-a-mass-hysteria-the-swine-flu-panic-of-2009-a-682613.html ); the world came very close to reacting exactly the same way 11 years ago, only the fact that the “pandemic” was a complete non-event meant that the media panic died out as quickly as the virus did.

To be honest, though, the current situation is more mentally wearing for me than a few months ago. Earlier on I had hope that evidence of the virus being less dangerous than predicted (and there were plenty of studies and theories that suggest this right from the start), might cause society and goverments to let up on the fear and hysteria. Some chance!

68311 ▶▶ MDH, replying to Gillian, 18, #1207 of 1641 🔗

It occurred to me at the outset that maybe my gut instinct (that this was a minor threat greatly amplified by 24-hour media and globalism generally) might be wrong, because if it was an existential threat to humanity, it would be so far outside my experience that I wouldn’t be able to comprehend it.

But that soon passed. I have never, NEVER felt that my health was at serious risk from the virus, any more so than I’m at risk of various cancers – and one lives with that knowledge and carries on.

What we are seeing is a global PANdemIC, enabled by a credulous media and a useless political class.

If you look at The Times lead story today (second wave nonsense), the comments below are hugely of the “What a load of nonsense” variety. People are realising they’ve been fooled into overreacting. Their fury when the money runs out won’t be pretty.

68315 ▶▶ James H, replying to Gillian, 4, #1208 of 1641 🔗

No. Keep the faith: cleave to what you intinctively know to be right. One can feel the fear on the High-street, not that there’s much of that left at this rate.

68319 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Gillian, 6, #1209 of 1641 🔗

I only question my confidence that it will end, and even then not for so long before I regain my senses. ‘We’ are most certainly on the right side of this, have no doubt, and ‘they’ will slowly realise that all of this nonsense is not worth it – I’m sure that plenty already have, though they may hide it behind a mask (literally in this case) because they lack confidence.
If talking to someone would help, it is an idea, but if you get one of ‘them’ as your psychiatrist it could be counter-productive.

68320 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Gillian, 6, #1210 of 1641 🔗

It’s the very same critically reflective skills you have and others don’t possess that has caused you to be here (and scepticical).

Keep the faith.

68322 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Gillian, 5, #1211 of 1641 🔗

“Strange how potent cheap music is” Noel Coward

Never surrender
When you’re up against the world
Never surrender
Stand up fight them all
Never surrender
When you’re up against the world
Never surrender
Stand up fight them all

https://www.metrolyrics.com/never-surrender-lyrics-saxon.html

68324 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Gillian, 5, #1212 of 1641 🔗

Yes, you should always establish the counter-argument(s), and then set out to knock them down, one by one, with logic, facts and other evidence. No, you do not need to seek psychiatric help unless and until Cark Heneghan and Sunitra Gupta have, and reported back. Chin up!

68327 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Gillian, 7, #1213 of 1641 🔗

I actually had a very real sense about this, it was like something suddenly snapped in me and I kind of went, actually give in, I am wrong, they are right. It was a strange unfamiliar thought process.

Naturally I managed to give my brain a slap and get it back on track. I am right they are wrong. I am certainly not mentally confused, not like just about nearly ever body else. I am not and never have used sanitizer, I have never knowingly socially distanced from anybody, I have never and will never wear gloves and a mask to stop germs, and I was never worried about catching the Rona.

I know more about this Virus and the politics that surround it than 98% of the people out there.

No you don’t need psychiatric help but the rest of the population REALLY does need it. Covid Psychosis is a real thing.

68328 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Gillian, 4, #1214 of 1641 🔗

Gillian – I had thought this morning too, just for a few seconds. Is everyone else right? But then I simply have another think about the facts and what we’ve learnt about this situation, and realise, yes, we’re actually right. Everyone else is wrong.

Remember Galileo – “ He was tried by the Inquisition, found “vehemently suspect of heresy”, and forced to recant. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest.”

But he was right all along!

Even if we cannot be free in body, we can be free in our minds and our spirit. And I think that’s what counts. And being free in mind and spirit means we can work out how to eventually be free in body.

You do not need psychiatric help – it’s the rest of the world that’s gone mad.

We need to set up some sort of system allowing us all to meet up in person, safely. This will help enormously!

Keep faith! The fact that you do not think like the herd is in itself a great act of courage!

68414 ▶▶▶ PaulK, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1215 of 1641 🔗

I’ve managed to find local like minded individuals by searching through the Keep Britain Free forum. I can’t describe how positive it has been to talk to them face-to-face while my concerns expressed to friends and family fall on deaf ears. We now have a group of 10 and arranging meet ups. StandUpX have regular events too.

68446 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to PaulK, 2, #1216 of 1641 🔗

Excellent post.

68527 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to PaulK, #1217 of 1641 🔗

4 local events this weekend. See of one’s near you: https://www.standupx.info/

68329 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Gillian, 6, #1218 of 1641 🔗

Yes I often feel like this. I think it’s really important actually, to be constantly questioning your own viewpoint. It’s what real science is all about (not The Science). It’s what the zealots and the govt and MSM are NOT doing so it automatically puts you one step above them!

68334 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #1219 of 1641 🔗

Also, the truth may well be somewhere in the middle. But it’s only by acknowledging and debating both sides that the truth can be reached. That debate isn’t being allowed at the moment, which is why the anti lockdown view is so important.

68538 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1220 of 1641 🔗

I don’t think the truth about the virus is somewhere in the middle. I think the response to it has been an obvious scam.

As to the reason why most of the Western governments have all gone nuts “in lockstep” while using the same vocabulary, there are a lot of disturbing hypotheses and the truth of those is yet to be discerned.

68571 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1221 of 1641 🔗

The response is a scam, yes. But personally I don’t believe it’s just a cold, as some people say, any more than flu is just the flu. It can be nasty for some, but absolutely does not in any way justify the measures that have been taken.

68450 ▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1222 of 1641 🔗

Nothing wrong with checking one’s beliefs. I came across something recently about there being three scientific statements:

  1. I don’t know.
  2. Prove it.
  3. I’ve changed my mind.
68487 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mike Smith, #1223 of 1641 🔗

dont forget the one used by current government re covid and of course the climate change industry
4 . The Science is settled

68332 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Gillian, 5, #1224 of 1641 🔗

Totally agree Gillian. I’m off to France tomorrow with grown up sons (both sceptics) & my postie this morning told me his daughter experience “very strict” on wearing masks on Disney rides in Paris ? Unbelievable) just makes me feel very anxious. I’ve got to face trains and tube to London with hidden disabilities card (& am determined) & I know the stuff being pumped out is madness but……it’s tough out there thinking differently.

68423 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Keen Cook, 6, #1225 of 1641 🔗

I wonder how people in France with genuine panic issues get by. Now that masks are compulsory everybody wears one. I cop out by getting the kids to do the shopping for me. In a little organic shop where I shopped without a mask for four months, suddenly I have to wear a mask. It is so stupid. Last week I dutifully put my mask on at the door, but when I left I tore it off. I was nearly in tears. I think in Britain I would be entitled to an exemption.

68455 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Smith, replying to Jane in France, 2, #1226 of 1641 🔗

No exceptions? Appalling.

68478 ▶▶▶▶ GLT, replying to Jane in France, 1, #1227 of 1641 🔗

I am on holiday in France. Despite the mask rules it feels more relaxed. I don’t get a sense of the virtue signalling angle. Simple grudging acceptance of it as a law and people comply only insofar as they have to. Don’t seem to care what others are doing. Bars and restaurants busy and relaxed. Avoiding shops!

68488 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Jane in France, 4, #1228 of 1641 🔗

Re “nearly in tears”: this happened to me when we had to join what I called “the queue of shame” at the beginning of the lockdown. It was a physical reaction against the humiliation of being made to stand in public submission to what seemed to me insanity. After two attempts I refused to do it any more, and have only been going into shops if there were no queues outside – usually in the late evening. This mask thing has blown everything open again. I last went to a shop on Thursday, before the diktat came into force, but the crunch will come soon. I’ve got myself an exemption lanyard, but have put off using it for as long as possible. It helps to read here about the experiences of people who’ve braved the insanity. (This is a different Gillian from the original post, so a bit confusing – maybe I should change my user name ? Or isn’t that possible ?)

68534 ▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Gillian Swanson, 3, #1229 of 1641 🔗

I am also recently nearly in tears quite often. Most recently, this morning
when we went to our local organic community farm to collect our share of the vegetables. Last week no one masked, this week everyone was..
I had really hoped to not be the only one unmasked. Even there, where
people are generally open-minded, alternative and kind everyone was wearing the I support the government muzzle. unbelievable.

68681 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to watashi, #1230 of 1641 🔗

But it’s “kind” and “unselfish” to wear the mask! (Just preparing myself for my first unkind, selfish descent on the supermarket since last Thursday.)

68507 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Jane in France, #1231 of 1641 🔗

My understanding is that you can get an exemption but it needs a doctor’s certificate.
To get that, of course you have to wear a mask!

68508 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Jane in France, #1232 of 1641 🔗

Please see also my post about Intermarche.

68525 ▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Jane in France, #1233 of 1641 🔗

Is there no such thing as being exempt in France?

68523 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #1234 of 1641 🔗

If it s of any reassurance we (myself & 3 children) found train to London and tube travel was fine unmasked. I have no idea about France tho . Good luck!

68344 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Gillian, 3, #1235 of 1641 🔗

More than a dozen open minded, scientifically leaning, fact seeking people have just replied to support you. I think that answers your last question. We will see this out.

68345 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Gillian, 3, #1236 of 1641 🔗

Ghana said, to paraphrase, you may be a minority of one but you can still be correct.

68358 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1237 of 1641 🔗

Ghandi, not Ghana

68347 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Gillian, 4, #1238 of 1641 🔗

If I was visiting a hospital I probably would wear a mask even if it was optional. But that is one thing. A stay in hospital is not part of everyday normal life. If we were meant to wear masks we’d have evolved some fleshy equivalent on our faces. Only in extremis should there be a universal need to wear them – such as when there are a carts going round with a chap ringing a bell calling out: “Bring out y’ dead.”

I accept mask wearing may possibly decrease the fatality rate – but at what a price. In possibly saving lives it kills life as we’ve always know it instead.

68555 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1239 of 1641 🔗

You will be obliged to wear a mask if hospital visiting.
You’d think medics would know better but their ruling re muzzles is actually harmful to the health of its staff.

Mask-wearing will NOT decrease the fatality rate – which is negligible now anyway.

The government knows that, hence the mixed messages and the guidelines that basically say nobody needs to wear one. They’ve openly admitted it’s for psychological reasons – though they called it “confidence”.

68352 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Gillian, 3, #1240 of 1641 🔗

Well michael Levet and Sunetra Gupta are very convincing on our side of the argument. I also have a critical care doctor friend who thinks it is total over kill. Let’s keep hopeful

68354 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Gillian, 3, #1241 of 1641 🔗

Take a look at Ivor Cummins and his Fat Emporer website. He has a background in engineering. From the beginning he has been openly looking for evidence to test and counter his hypothesis that lockdowns are ineffectual. It’s an open document that he has invited people to contribute to. I don’t think he has accumulated much evidence in favour of lockdowns!

68558 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to GLT, #1242 of 1641 🔗

Ivor Cummins is great!

68360 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gillian, 6, #1243 of 1641 🔗

My two-pennyworth, Gillian.

It is a good sign you question/review/analyse the situation. Shows you are not brainwashed or conditioned into your views.

To assess the truth, I usually look at the ludicrousness of many aspects of the nonsense – 2m not 1m coz we is thick; masks in takeaways but not cafes; masks for children (grrrr !); long delays before introducing ‘measures’, to increase apprehension/panic; plus the biggy, no alternative viewpoints allowed on the MSM for 4 months ! Indefensible.

Psychiatrists should be avoided. If they’re fully on-board zealots, a mere opinion of your own would be an instant diagnosis of some sort of problem.

Take care of yourself !

68560 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #1244 of 1641 🔗

A psychiatrist will dose you up on meds that you don’t need.

68361 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Gillian, 3, #1245 of 1641 🔗

Me again, sorry. Gillian, look at A. Contrarian’s post above about the car. That tells you all you need to know about us and them, and who’s right. 🙂

68367 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Gillian, 4, #1246 of 1641 🔗

There have been a few days when I have been so low that I have thought ‘should I just give in and go along with the collective madness for an easier life ?,perhaps it will stop my stress and I will feel happier’ but I haven’t gone down that track,I know that initially it may have made me feel better but I know that feeling would not have lasted because my conscience would soon tell me I was going against what I truly feel deep in my soul,to be on the side of sceptcism and to be challenging the prevailing narrative is the right side.

Gillian,you decide what is the best course for you to take,don’t let anyone from either side of the divide make you go against the feelings in your heart and mind,remember you are not alone,we may be virtual friends but behind our keyboards we are real people who care about others and our world and I think there are may people in real world that think as we do but unfortunately they are often scared to say anything because it seems everyone is against them,but It does feel that the tide might slowly be turning.
Find something that you enjoy doing and immerse yourself in it,try to forget about everything,I did that one day and I realised hours later that I hadn’t though about the virus or anything related all day and it felt good !.

68369 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Gillian, 6, #1247 of 1641 🔗

Gillian, suggest a great film to watch – 12 Angry Men (1957) – with Henry Fonda.

68374 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1248 of 1641 🔗

Seconded. Very much worth seeking out asap.

68387 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Basics, 2, #1249 of 1641 🔗

Hank. Them eyes! And that daughter! Funnily enough, I was thinking the other day about films to recommend as a mood lifter. A few of my regular favourites popped into my head and I realised there is an ironic lockdown theme to them:

My Favourite Year – Peter O’Toole
Hobson’s Choice (b/w original) – Charles Laughton, John Mills
How to Murder Your Wife – Jack Lemmon, Terry-Thomas

all good stuff though.

68584 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #1250 of 1641 🔗

For laughs:

Grumpy Old Men
Strictly Ballroom
Cats and Dogs
Meet the Family
A New Leaf
Being There
Men In Black
Blues Brothers
Dean Spanley

68391 ▶▶ PaulK, replying to Gillian, 8, #1251 of 1641 🔗

The whole thing is psychological warfare. I understand how isolated one feels when your friends and family do not understand.

My advice is to reach out Gilian. I’ve managed to meet four like minded people face-to-face via the forums on Keep Britain Free. I can’t describe how good it feels to know “I am not alone” (to coin Vernon Coleman’s ending line). We are now planning further meet ups.

Search for your area within the forum and you may well find someone nearby. Keep the faith, keep strong, we will win this war.

68392 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Gillian, 4, #1252 of 1641 🔗

No definitely not – maybe a little if you wake at 3 or 4 am when everything always somehow feels more shaky. The issue I think is that LOADS and I mean loads of folk just get ALL their news by letting the BBC,SKY and ITV bulletins just wash into their ears.

68403 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Gillian, 4, #1253 of 1641 🔗

What is “right” in this context? We have always had to battle with pathogens of various types. Many have been far more dangerous than Covid-19. We’ve never before attempted to close down the whole of society including children’s education and most medical and dental care.

During the Lockdown there was a huge reduction in crime. Why aren’t people touting lockdowns as the way to tackle crime and “save lives”? That would be just as logical as tackling a virus of this type with a total lockdown.

68465 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 3, #1254 of 1641 🔗

Humanity has been around say 1 million years these things come along every 10 years or so, we would be the genetic survivors of 100,000 such pandemics and this one isn’t even all that hard.

68513 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1255 of 1641 🔗

There is some evidence that novel pathogens are becoming a more frequent phenomenon. Some scientists think mass flu vaccination of the elderly may be creating opportunities for novel pathogens…flu vaccinations just stop flu (not all the time though) – they don’t make old lungs young again….they’re still v vulnerable to infection, so novel pathogens face less competition in moving into such tempting (for a virus) environments.

68412 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Gillian, 2, #1256 of 1641 🔗

Indeed Covid 19 can be serious for certain groups and therefore required a targeted approach. The horror stories it generates are out of all proportion to the statistics. The monstrous dodgy testing system is finding witches in every broom cupboard and sending everyone into a tail spin. Nobody seems to be looking at the facts, hospital cases are way down, the rate of total deaths is now below average, so what is the problem? At first Covid had an exponential rate of growth but now it is the over-reaction of the powers that be and the MSM that is growing exponentially.
It all needs an inspired intelligent and dynamic reality check at the top, on this site we all recognize this but there is little sign of it happening and so we share thoughts and hope that in the end sense will prevail.

68463 ▶▶▶ GLT, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1257 of 1641 🔗

I largely agree with your post, Steve, but note that there are scientists, including Professor Levitt, who would say that there was never exponential growth.

68430 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Gillian, 4, #1258 of 1641 🔗

Gillian – of course it’s always wise to question your assumptions, and try to avoid confirmation bias, and be receptive to new evidence.

With this in mind, taking each of your questions in turn: no; no; no idea, except mass hysteria; no.

68435 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Gillian, 4, #1259 of 1641 🔗

Gillian, don’t despair. Recent 20thC history tells us that when the minority of awake people don’t speak out the end result is fascist Germany or Communist USSR. People have been deliberately terrified (the ’25 Options’ government SAGE document makes it clear that instilling fear about this virus was essential) and we need to gently wake them up in a way that doesn’t make them feel stupid.

68443 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Gillian, 6, #1260 of 1641 🔗

I’ve also felt sometimes that it would be easier just to believe the hysteria, and take comfort from the fact that we’re all in this together and if our lives are being disrupted it’s because of a dangerous virus not because of the stupidity of governments. But now some full on mask, glove and lockdown friends are beginning to wonder if it will ever end. So even the believers end up depressed. That’s one point. The other is, if people were keeling over in the streets we would know there was a dangerous illness going about. They aren’t and never have been. However unpleasant the virus is – I myself had a sore throat and a horrible cough for a few days – it does not justify the response. That is the bottom line.

68447 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Gillian, 4, #1261 of 1641 🔗

You are not alone Gillian and there are more of us than even I realised. I’m on an island in the Med at the moment and oh such a difference from the UK! Cafe culture goes on as normal over here, people are socialising, mingling, eating meals together. If you go inside a shop a mask should be worn but in reality they are worn hanging off one ear or around the neck and nobody says a thing. The atmosphere is normal, proper normal, old normal. There is hope yet for the UK as normal does still exist.

68473 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Gillian, 4, #1262 of 1641 🔗

Stay strong, Gillian, there are MANY of us that see the truth in a sea of denial and ignorance. I have been studying the Globalisation plan for a very long time and this virus came as absolutely no surprise to me. So not once have I questioned my own stance on this. I’ve unfortunately upset people when I refused to agree with them on this virus, and when I told them at the start that wasn’t going to away any day soon and that the government’s reaction to this could get worse they got angry and said I was a conspiracy theorist! “How could I be like that when PEOPLE ARE DYING!” was the stock answer. Now quite a few months down the line some are now grudgingly asking me questions, but most just don’t want to know me now. I’ve moved on, looking after my closest family who are luckily in agreement with me and see what is going on. Don’t ever be swayed from what you believe. Remember, there are people who are seeing what’s actually happening, but pretend they can’t because it’s more comfortable to follow the rules rather than stand up to them. Always stay true to yourself.

68479 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Gillian, 3, #1263 of 1641 🔗

The truth is in plain sight at the Office for Nationsl Statistics total deaths per week against the 5 year average, proves we are right but the MSM won’t touch it because they also know this.
When chatting to young adults it does not take long before they start to reveal their doubts but they have learned to confirm in these days of social media

If you are feeling uncertain and fragile might I suggest you look at a few of Jordan B Petersons videos, he really is very good about groupthink (and very gentle with it).

68486 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Gillian, 3, #1264 of 1641 🔗

Is there ever a moment when you question yourself and wonder if “we” are wrong “

Not quite in those terms – but in the sense of always questioning. Because *that* is good science, based on the reflexive process of constantly examining assumptions and previous data.

And the result of that *sane* questioning stance is *always* that the Covid narrative is at very best an exaggerated distortion of the situation, and the responses a nonsense in any known epidemiological framework.

So – no – you don’t need psychiatric help in that sense : just a bit of support in dealing with the surrounding madness, which is getting a lot of people down – and is a very sane response to a world upside-down.

One problem that we (the sane) face is that a lot of people who are also pretty balanced prefer to simply ignore the situation. I find that, even in the close family, there is an urge to simply avoid the subject, because everyone is wound up, and some will even wear a mask in shops on the justification that it reassures others.

The problems of mass brain-washing are not going to go away, but be assured that bouts of depression, anxiety and sheer anger are a sign of normality, not psychosis. This is a very difficult situation to deal with, based on well-known psychological techniques used to undermine people by totalitarian regimes. The art is finding ways through.

68509 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 2, #1265 of 1641 🔗

That’s a great response Rick.
No Gillian, you are not going mad – though the world might be.

68517 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Gillian, 2, #1266 of 1641 🔗

Gillian this is healthy, it is always good to question yourself and your own position, because then when you continue to arrive at the same place based on the facts available it reinforces your position. If at some point, new facts emerge (let’s pretend a absolutely incredibly detailed and conclusive study proved irrefutably that masks on 100% of people for their little shopping trips for a month, would completely rid us of any trace of Covid-19 and let us get back to normal) you need to be honest enough to adjust position.

The problem with the ‘opposition’ in this instance is that the government & their advisers aren’t ever questioning themselves, they’re not open to the idea that new data has emerged since 23rd March that show their actions to be wrong & so they continue on the same path. As such, just by questioning yourself, you’re already miles better than they are – even if we are still very much on the losing team.

68536 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Gillian, #1267 of 1641 🔗

Not any more.

Towards the beginning I was a bit “your contrarianism is too strong for objectivity” 😉 but now….

We are right.

68545 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Gillian, #1268 of 1641 🔗

I was thinking something similar, earlier. I am surprised at how unequivocally right we are here, and how wrong they are.

This wasn’t the case back in March and April when I had doubts about the uptick in excess deaths. But we hadn’t figured on the government sending infected old people into care homes and suspending all medical treatment. And you always have to bear in mind that the death of a 90 year-old brought forward by three months isn’t as significant a ‘death’ as a younger person dying. Back then, I hadn’t got it all as straight in my mind, and the evidence had yet to be collated. Now, we are so much more tuned into both the deception and the straightforward errors these people are making (“cases”, false positives, T-Cells, etc. etc.).

68549 ▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Gillian, #1269 of 1641 🔗

Hi Gillian. A while back on here you might remember the Imperial College coding model produced by the infamous Prof. Ferguson was made available on an open source website. It was comprehensively debunked by the very impressive “Sue Denim” a former Google senior programmer. As a retired programmer myself I spent some time looking at this analysis and also the relevant bits of C++ code – my background is in the same area. I have to say that I though Sue Denim’s analysis was actually relatively restrained – if I’d produced something like this for any of my clients I would have quickly been shown the door.

Without going into technicalities, amongst the conclusions were that it was unlikely that this code could ever produce accurate results, that it turned out different results dependent on which machine it was run on and that it was regularly out by factors of between 10-20 using the same inputs. Frankly I wouldn’t employ the people who wrote this to write code to run the accounts of a whelk stall.

Now when you hearJohnson, Hancock et al stand up and tell you that due to the measures they imposed they saved 500,000 lives it is this heap of crap that they are using to back up their claims. This is one obvious example of where “we are right”.

I expect most people who post here would agree that the most vulnerable need protecting from this virus. Those of us with elderly relatives were always careful every winter to stay away not to pass on sniffles to them – that was common sense. But common sense has long since left town and we are now left with a form of mass hysteria driven by unaccountable public health mandarins, terrible journalism and stupid politicians.

My advice is remain curious and question everything.

68611 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Gillian, #1270 of 1641 🔗

No

68615 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Gillian, #1271 of 1641 🔗

Not for a second

68620 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Gillian, #1272 of 1641 🔗

My family all think I’m a tin foil hat wearer. I had nobody to talk to about this either except the people I’ve started to meet in the last week or two about the mask action I’m planning.

Maybe there should be a Zoom chat group for people here’s as it makes a big difference to talk “face to face”.

68655 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1273 of 1641 🔗

i tihnk my family would think I was too if not for the fact that they’ve seen my thought process develop over time and how that has been happening. They’ve seen me researching. They’ve seen my printing out studies and articles etc. and reading them. — Without reading them themselves of course 😉 It’s the classic stick fingers in ears and go lalalalalalalalalalalalalala.

68721 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Gillian, #1274 of 1641 🔗

Self-doubt is not only useful, it is vital for a rational mind; without it, you’re just as guilty of blind dogma as the Lockdown Stasi. At the start of this, I was happy to acknowledge the popular consensus and concede that it may be right, but at the end of the day, truth is truth. And like truth, goodness is an objective universal constant.

Peeling away the layers, some of which are pretty and rainbow-coloured for emotive purposes, one can only conclude that the very idea of a lockdown is fundamentally bad.

The bottom line is the argument of whether Quality in life is better than just life for its own sake. Of course it is. That is why we regard human life as sacred, and we value the life of intelligent or beautiful animals, but we do not care if we squash a fly – it’s to do with differing perceptions of Quality. Discussions of euthanasia and suicide depend on similar reasoning.

Unfortunately, the world is full of people who do not perceive in full Quality, or truth, goodness or beauty, people who revel only in the sensory comforts and amusements of bread and circuses. For example, there will be people who can read of the recent atrocity at Nantes Cathedral and not feel the slightest sadness, because to them Nantes Cathedral is nowhere near as important as their local McDonald’s.

The Lockdown Stasi purports to be effectively anti-death, a position that is both as foolish in its unachievability as it is undesirable because death, after a full life of 70 or 80 years, is good, and sometimes it can be beautiful. Who would want to be subject to the horror of eternal life? I think many people in the present fear death for one of two reasons: 1) they are dissatisfied with the life they have lived or 2) they have been psychologically conditioned by a culture of risk aversion and cannot come to terms with death being a necessary component in the ongoing march of life. A person who is satisfied with the balance of the universe and their own achievements within their transient existence will not having any fear of death.

Further, the existence of disease brings pain, anxiety and sadness, and all these have their place in the world. Without pain, we would have no sense of comfort; without anxiety, no confidence; and without sadness, the beautiful feeling of joy would be without any value. They help to make up the intricate complexities of the human condition. Humanity is not only beautiful but perfect. It should not be tampered with.

In trying to eliminate negative feelings, the envisioned medical Utopia would destroy the value of positive ones. Our humanity would become a void.

That, Gillian, is why we are right. If I have spoken falsely, please feel at liberty to put me right. Sadly, I fear that when one side favours Quality and the other favours material safety, the difference is almost irreconcilable. How can one value Quality if one cannot perceive it?

68737 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Gillian, #1275 of 1641 🔗

Gillian,

COVID is not a deadly disease just like flu is not a deadly disease. It can lead to death for the old and those with health conditions, just like the flu can. That is just a fact.

The data shows it. And the more data we get, the more apparent that becomes.

So the reaction to COVID is completely irrational and disproportionate. Why? Who knows. Spend all the time you like investigating and speculating on why the world has lost its head. But don’t lose track of the fundamental fact: COVID isn’t particularly dangerous.

68307 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 16, #1276 of 1641 🔗

Got a call from my mother today, worried about a spike in Wrexham where I live (80 ‘cases’ over the last week or something like that).

I asked someone in the know, and was told that the cases have all occurred within the local hospital, not within the community. Hospital administrators have been mixing Covid patients with non-Covid patients in the same wards… hence the spike! Unbelievable! Stupidity? Or deliberate?

Anyway, apparently affected families have been understandably furious, and gone to the Press and taken the issue to the Welsh Government, so we’ll see what comes of it all in the ensuing weeks. I hope heads will roll.

68313 ▶▶ James H, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #1277 of 1641 🔗

Deliberate, I guess. The original scheme to shift the elderly – untested – to care homes was quite deliberate.

68457 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to James H, 1, #1278 of 1641 🔗

Another example of a ‘stupid’ decision being taken universally and at the same time.

68467 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #1279 of 1641 🔗

Again, tho’ – underlying this is the slippery term ‘cases’. ‘Seek and ye shall find’.

Once again – as posted on the Swiss Doctor site :

“Case numbers” are, however, a misleading figure that cannot be equated with sick or infected people. A positive test can, for example, be due to non-infectious virus fragments, an asymptomatic infection, a repeated test, or a false-positive result.

68314 didymous, replying to didymous, 8, #1280 of 1641 🔗

Following Matt Hancock’s demand that PHE no longer publish faulty daily death figures, I’m sure PHE is keeping the pressure up on PHE to make sure PHE conducts a full, frank and urgent review of the systematic errors in daily deaths stats produced by PHE (that they continue to publish), otherwise PHE will surely have to face severe censure by PHE.

68539 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to didymous, #1281 of 1641 🔗

Just like getting ICL to appraise their own modellng then.

68317 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 9, #1282 of 1641 🔗

Daily Mail suggests 28% increases in positive cases in July?
Is that true?
Also Boris suggesting two weeks to the second wave starting….
What did the Tory voters do to this country?

68338 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to hotrod, 4, #1283 of 1641 🔗

If he is/was so worried why allow anyone to travel on holiday in the first place?

68346 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to hotrod, 8, #1284 of 1641 🔗

To prove they can do to Spain what they did to Leicester.

68500 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, #1285 of 1641 🔗

Exactly…and to make people lose money so they do not ‘dare’ to travel abroad again…

68343 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to hotrod, 7, #1286 of 1641 🔗

28% of not a lot is still not a lot.

Not a loot is not scary, 28% increase is.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

I can even prove you have 11 fingers. Something I learnt in school to show how maths can be manipulated by using different “systems” in the same calculation.

With one hand start at 10 and count down the first hand, you end up at 6. Then hold up your other hand, add 5 fingers the 6 you already have and you get 11 in total.

68490 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1287 of 1641 🔗

Good one!

68537 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1288 of 1641 🔗

Most people have an above average number of limbs. Now that’s an interesting fact that might confuse people.

68604 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Nobody2020, #1289 of 1641 🔗

I was once the youngest person in the World.

So were you.

68359 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to hotrod, 2, #1290 of 1641 🔗

Here is the raw data on positive tests and daily increases:
1 July – 313,483 (up 829)
4 July – 284,900 (up 624) – note numbers rebased to reflect 30k double-counted!
28 July – 300,692 (up 581)

Where’s the statistician that calculated 28%?

68371 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1291 of 1641 🔗

Got a link to the numbers, TT? Or just the site name, I never know where I’m looking, NHS/ONS/PHE etc.

68386 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1292 of 1641 🔗

I had been downloading daily from the gov website:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-information-for-the-public#history

I have an incomplete spreadsheet, largely because the methodology keeps changing (in my view, a red flag in and of itself). I gave up updating my spreadsheet when Hancock announced the inquiry into the basis for PHE deaths. I will aim to go through the historic data and backfill (I have been trying to complete an article before co-author goes on holiday – nothing to do with the virus!).

68393 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1293 of 1641 🔗

Thanks. Download is the key word, cos ooh, I dunno, the figures *could* change 😉

68417 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Sam Vimes, #1294 of 1641 🔗

Other data buried within the gov website is here – split out by nation.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#category=nations&map=case

68394 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1295 of 1641 🔗

The raw data is here: https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/testing (positives on the “cases” link). There are links to the daily data which mean you can copy and paste into a spread sheet to show trends. Below is the data for July – % of tests that were positive is pretty stable at around 0.5%

68384 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #1296 of 1641 🔗

And are these cases hospitalised or worse? There is no relationship between these crazy announcements & the outcomes (% deaths % h admissions) people just assume everyone is going to die today or tomorrow if they go out (without a mask). This is very bizarre.

68373 ▶▶ Zugzwang, replying to hotrod, 1, #1297 of 1641 🔗

It is not true. The Mail said 28 per cent in three weeks. The increase was 20 per cent. Increase in number of tests a bit more than 20 per cent. No increase in proportion positive (actually a small fall).

68409 ▶▶ matt, replying to hotrod, 1, #1298 of 1641 🔗

Could someone mathematically minded take a look at something?

I took it into my head to try to work out the UK IFR yesterday, based on the testing and the death data from the gov.uk site (I’ve never seen any “official” source in this country quote an IFR of any kind). NB, I could only find a CSV file for England, so couldn’t in the end include the other nations.

I was using data on positive “cases” starting 1st May(when the testing had ramped up to the kind of level where the data might start to be reasonably useful) and data on deaths from 30 days later (since we know death occurs 4-6 weeks later).

We know that deaths are very likely significantly overstated, but we also know that positive tests are very likely significantly overstated. I’m also aware that there are a number of assumptions in what I was doing that make the maths very rough and slightly dodgy.

Nonetheless, I was consistently coming up with an IFR in the region of 12%.

Accepting that there will be large numbers of asymptomatic infections that aren’t getting tested, an IFR of over 10% among people presenting with mild symptoms and worse seems staggeringly high – close to the case fatality rate we were seeing in Italy when they were only testing the hospitalised. If there are 80% asymptomatic cases, as have been suggested… 12% of 20% is still 2.4%, which is still nearly 10 times the IFR that the CDC has quoted.

I’m probably not expressing myself very well, but my point is that something is very far off where it should be. As far as I can see, it can only be either:
1) my (admittedly flawed) rough maths is making some huge error that I can’t spot
2) the death numbers are astronomically over reported, not just somewhat over reported
3) the infection numbers are in fact massively under reported
4) the CDC has got it wrong by an order of magnitude

Could someone help me stay sane and point out where I’m wrong?

68411 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to matt, 1, #1299 of 1641 🔗

I should add – I was using gov.uk data

68442 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 2, #1300 of 1641 🔗

To get a true IFR you need to know the number of people exposed. If you follow this link
https://www.mrc-bsu.cam.ac.uk/now-casting/ (MRC Biostatistics Unit COVID-19 Working Group – Cambridge university)
there’s a link for today’s date that shows you an estimate of the total number infected, which they have between 3.6 and 5.9 million. They reckon the IFR is between 1 and 1.8% based on that, probably taking the worst-case numbers of deaths (with rather than of). The estimate of the total number infected is I think based on surveys, antibody tests and looking at things like calls to the NHS, plus PCR tests. I don’t think it takes into account people with natural immunity, which would make the IFR much lower.

68541 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Julian, 1, #1301 of 1641 🔗

So, what you guys are saying is that, in order to divide one number by another, you need to know what those numbers are! So, that’s why it’s such a hard subject that baffles scientists!

68516 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #1302 of 1641 🔗

Mostly 3 and some 2 I think. As Julian points out, the really difficult part of the calculation you are attempting is getting a clear idea of the number of people exposed to or infected by the disease, with an infectious respiratory disease where there is significant pre-existing immunity and a lot of people show few or no symptoms. The estimates made by the experts are based on lots of complex guesswork and inference-drawing.

My sense as an outsider to the key fields is also that there are definitional problems here relating to our evidently incomplete understanding of immunity and infection. This means that there are unresolved issues about how the difference between “exposed to” and “infected” works. It’s quite possible, it seems to me, that there has been exposure to the disease for the majority of the population, in many countries where the disease came early, and we are essentially at herd immunity because only a minority are vulnerable to it at all.

68535 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark, 1, #1303 of 1641 🔗

Yes, Mark. Our lives are being fucked up, based on guesswork and inference-drawing.

68550 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1304 of 1641 🔗

Obviously. That and outright bullshit and lies, of course (see Imperial College and “behavioural insight” work).

68575 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, #1305 of 1641 🔗

It sounds like that’s a CFR. I get about 15% if I just divide the numbers on worldometers. Positive tests aren’t really “cases” but they are still way smaller than the total number of infections, especially as the UK only started testing quite late on anyway.

If you have random testing (which it never is but is sometimes close) you extrapolate the positive ratio to the whole population to estimate number infected. But all the tests (both PCR and antibodies) have time windows in which people are positive and that has to be taken into account as well.

The number of “cases” for the uk on worldometers is only 300k. The total number infected or exposed is likely somewhere between 10 million and 30 million.

68528 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to hotrod, 1, #1306 of 1641 🔗

Yes. There was a 28% increase in (false) positive tests. But there was a 300% increase in testing. 😉

68597 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to hotrod, #1307 of 1641 🔗

The number irrelevant. It’s what percentage of total tests aren’t positive and that is falling. Check on OurWorldInData

68673 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1308 of 1641 🔗

Yep, positive tests “were falling, but have levelled off”. Obviously meant to suggest that they could rise, but the number of tests is rising (it has to!), so as you say percentage positive tests is falling.

68751 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, #1309 of 1641 🔗

Surely you would expect the number of positives to rise with the rise in testing even if it’s expressed as a percentage? I suppose expressing it as a percentage makes it seem worse than it is

This is where my grasp of maths fails me lol

68336 Awkward Git, 3, #1310 of 1641 🔗

They’ve put some videos up on that WTTC/Carnival website.

https://covidsciencesummit.com

I’ve not had chance to watch them in full but just flicked through.

Some bits they seem sceptical, others seem full on with the agenda. The Asian ethnicity doctor – Dr Michael Lin – is all for masks but then he contradicts himself later and says they are at best 50% effective.

Will try and make time to watch all the videos in full and let sceptics land know if anything interesting is on it.

68341 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 19, #1311 of 1641 🔗

The new definition of madness, observed this morning – wearing a mask, on your own, whilst driving in your open top car…

68350 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #1312 of 1641 🔗

My husband has just called me from town to record that about 10% of people are out and about in masks, including one older chap who caught his eye – in a bright green bandana-type mask made of muslin through which his mouth was visible!

68370 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #1313 of 1641 🔗

Good for the older chap. Protest or not the more stupid the masks the better. Saw a younger chap in a metro shop in full spray a car mask respirator. It had tge effect of piddling on every other mask around and looked really embarrasing.

68377 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Basics, 1, #1314 of 1641 🔗

He only walked through town to see if the group of Extinction Rebellion nutters who had camped outside H&M the other day were still there!

68418 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1315 of 1641 🔗

There was a geordie accent outside holyrood at last years er aborted protests on a mic, peaking to a crowd of three. I think tyneside may be a hotbed.

68406 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1316 of 1641 🔗

Muslin will be my material of choice should I ever have to succumb…

68415 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1317 of 1641 🔗

It has to cover your nose and mouth. But, do they define ‘cover’?

68436 ▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1318 of 1641 🔗

I don’t think so, and they certainly don’t define the material you need to use. In fact I think I read something on a policing website suggesting that the police are not expected to assess the suitability or effectiveness of the covering in terms of size, shape or fabric, so it’s been left very open.

68437 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James H, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #1319 of 1641 🔗

The netting Dad used to use for his runner-beans would do me!

68504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to James H, 1, #1320 of 1641 🔗

Or fishnet tights?

68483 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1321 of 1641 🔗

I think I read recently that Wales had specified three layers for public transport, scarves not acceptable. Hopefully the rest won’t follow suit.

68444 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1322 of 1641 🔗

Or one layer of cheesecloth?

68355 ▶▶ guy153, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1323 of 1641 🔗

Maybe he has hay-fever. I don’t think masks help with that however even though pollen grains are bigger than virus particles 🤔

68356 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #1324 of 1641 🔗

Seen em in cars, but open top? That’s the tin hat!

68397 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1325 of 1641 🔗

Slightly off-topic but I knew someone who had a name for (older) blokes in open top cars: “an old arse in silk knickers”

68505 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Sam Vimes, #1326 of 1641 🔗

Will probably need to wear one of those as well – don’t forget the risk of meteorite strike!

68413 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A. Contrarian, #1327 of 1641 🔗

Trumps my cyclist wearing a visor at 45 degrees sans crash hat

68348 Strange Days, replying to Strange Days, 3, #1328 of 1641 🔗

They are comming for Percy Pig! Please let this be the thing that sparks the revolution

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2020/jul/29/percy-pig-packaging-wilfully-misleading-says-obesity-campaign

68362 ▶▶ ChrisW, replying to Strange Days, 2, #1329 of 1641 🔗

The health fascists had better stay away from my Percy Pigs!

68366 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Strange Days, 4, #1330 of 1641 🔗

It’s Peppa Pig that needs putting down the memory hole. It’s a 100% a deep state brainwashing tool for little girls.
Silly Daddy!

68402 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Strange Days, 3, #1331 of 1641 🔗

Wow, that is amazing. A packet of sweets has sugar as the major ingredient! Who knew?

68353 Suburbian, 1, #1332 of 1641 🔗

There was an article on zero hedge yesterday saying the IMF would only give Belarus Money if they imposed the lockdown. I’m wondering if that’s why we’re all wearing masks now. We went cap in hand to the IMF.

Also getting really annoyed with the facebook/google censorship going on at the moment. I don’t like censorship at the best of times, but the difference between government censorship and tech censorship is that the government is also responsible for roads, safety, education, health…tech is just responsible for destroying our brains. How did we allow un-elected people to become in charge of freedom of speach?

68372 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1333 of 1641 🔗

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.27.20161976v2
Existing vaccines give protection against Covid-19? Just published not peer reviewed
“reveal significantly lower SARS-CoV-2 rate among black individuals who have taken the PCV13 vaccine, with relative risk of 0.45 at the 5 year time horizon (n: 653, 95% CI: (0.32, 0.64), p-value: 6.9e-05).
 “These findings suggest that additional pre-clinical and clinical studies are warranted to assess the protective effects of existing non-COVID-19 vaccines and explore underlying immunologic mechanisms.”

68390 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to swedenborg, #1334 of 1641 🔗

Interesting. When I search PCV13 vaccine in Google, the first thing that appears is a WHO ad saying “Vaccines against pneumonia do NOT protect against Covid-19” (emphasis in the link). Maybe they’re onto something?

68497 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to jrsm, #1335 of 1641 🔗

Exactly!

68404 ▶▶ GLT, replying to swedenborg, #1336 of 1641 🔗

I remember an interview with an immunologist very early on speculating about the protective effects of TB vaccination. He was talking about effects of another vaccine given in addition and the effect they had of boosting underlying innate immune responses. Can’t remember the details and obviously no reporting of it then it since!

68408 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to GLT, #1337 of 1641 🔗

Wow I had a TB jab, think I had two!

68438 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to GLT, 1, #1338 of 1641 🔗

Is there any info on the protective effects of an un-tampered with healthy immune system against the nasty cough?

68451 ▶▶▶▶ GLT, replying to Major Panic, #1339 of 1641 🔗

I’m sure there could be….there’s enough data out there now to keep researchers going but whether anyone funds it is another question,

68459 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1340 of 1641 🔗

Interesting. They also seem to have found that the Meningococcal and Typhoid vaccines make you around 1.5x more likely to get Covid.

68476 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to guy153, 1, #1341 of 1641 🔗

Interesting, wasn’t the Oxford phase I trial being run against the MenC vaccine?

68494 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1342 of 1641 🔗

Yes they use that as a control, which will help to make their vaccine look good 🙂 This doesn’t matter much though because the main thing you’re looking for is close to 100% immunity in the actual vaccinated group. If a few extra people in the control group get Covid this is only evidence in favour of the vaccine in the same way that red buses are evidence that ravens are black ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_paradox ). The reason they use MenC for the “control” is just to give you get a sore arm and make you feel like crap otherwise you might guess that you’d had the placebo.

68746 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to guy153, #1343 of 1641 🔗

This is certainly an amazing opportunity for research into how vaccines impact other vaccines and other endemic diseases.

Will it be done? Probably not, as all the scientists are too busy trying to create the next unproperly researched vaccine in order to make £$£

68496 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, #1344 of 1641 🔗

UK government should’ve looked at this before giving GSK and other Pharma companies loads of our money upfront for new, as yet untested vaccines…

68607 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, #1345 of 1641 🔗

Indeed. Missed opportunity…..

68379 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 17, #1346 of 1641 🔗

Just put this on my social media (subject dear to my heart), I await the continued mass unfriending:

Imagine you are a rape survivor, or child abuse survivor, or DV survivor, or you have PTSD. Traumatised people are in a state that’s called ‘hyper arousal’ – the bit of our brain that scans the environment looking for threats is stuck on “ON!!!!”.

Humans automatically do this with facial expressions, particularly micro muscles around the mouth. This is the part of the brain beyond conscious thought, it’s the bit of us that makes our hair stand on end, or causes the ‘someone just walked over my grave’ feeling, or makes us jump when something catches us by surprise. Imagine that feeling you get having to walk back to your car in a multi-story carpark at night alone, multiply it by about ten thousand, and that’s how traumatised people feel ALL THE TIME.

Now imagine you have to go out in the world, and not only will you be mocked, confronted and shamed because you don’t want to cover your face (perhaps someone held a hand over your face as they raped or abused you, or as is common your violent partner tried to suffocate you) but you cannot see anyone else’s face.

 Now tell me again how wearing a mask, backed up by no science, means you are one of the good guys?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8564247/Are-masks-giving-men-licence-stare-Women-report-rise-aggressive-eye-contact.html

68385 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 13, #1347 of 1641 🔗

I had experience of this the other day. I was just walking past the supermarket and some bloke fixed me with a quite long intimidating stare. I gave him what for and told him he was wasting his time. It is very unsettling though. Brave, these blokes aren’t they?

68398 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 4, #1348 of 1641 🔗

Very good Bec; well done KH. Men are just rubbish. Speaking from biological experience!

68410 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #1349 of 1641 🔗

I don’t think all men are rubbish, but the fact of the matter is women don’t know which are which, so it’s immaterial in the end, I actually think men have very little conscious awareness of how women weigh up threat about a million times a day. When I lived in London, it was literally every minute from the moment I left the house. I’ve been flashed, followed, repeatedly groped, w*nked on on the tube twice, men put hands up my skirt, hideous sexual street harassment, told to smile, and when I look worried, called every name under the sun (again, men don’t realise when they say ‘smile love’ or ‘I like your dress’ and they are being entirely friendly, that we’ve already had 100 experiences where that’s escalated to very frightening levels already, more times than I can count, ‘are you a f**king lesbian, what you need is one up the arse!’ etc etc). I said to my brother once, who was arguing that men aren’t a threat, ‘what do you think about when you park your car in a multi storey?’ – he said ‘a space’. I said, ‘lighting, exits, distance from other people, stairwells, RAPE basically’. I dont’ think men really get how frightening they can be. I’d even think twice about taking a lift with a long standing lovely colleague, and getting in a car with him on my own. Pervy men with faces covered, living nightmare, and I won’t be taking public transport until this madness is over.

68416 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, 12, #1350 of 1641 🔗

In fact, good men signal with their face and their body language they are NOT a threat (cross the road, smile, how they hold their facial expression) and they can’t even do that either, masks take away gallantry.

68426 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to BecJT, 7, #1351 of 1641 🔗

I tend to steer clear of women, not walk too close etc., particularly in the street, simply because I know they get enough hassle. But then does that make me appear stand offish? And even worse, did I invent social distancing? Oh No!

68439 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #1352 of 1641 🔗

No, honestly, if it’s dark, we are thanking God you do that. Please keep doing it. I think nice, decent men have very little idea how disgusting and threatening some men are.

In my early twenties, in London, I went out on a hot day in a fairly modest sun dress. Straps, so bare shoulders and arms, but below my knee. Worst day of my life! I was shaking and crying as I walked home. Two black guys were coming towards me on the same pavement in a quiet residential street, and I just couldn’t take the thousandth street harassment incident of the day, so I crossed the road.

They started jeering and calling me racist. I burst into tears. And said, ‘please leave me alone, it’s not because you are black, it’s because you are men’.

They were so NICE! They walked me home. I was so grateful. I never wore that dress again. I never left the house with my shoulders uncovered. I never ever looked a man in the eye on the tube again.

68448 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to BecJT, 3, #1353 of 1641 🔗

That you can’t walk, unmolested, or wear your nice things is just so wrong. I love to see femininity, it brightens a dull world. That red coat on a winter day, a waft of perfume etc. More power to you for not taking crap.

68454 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1354 of 1641 🔗

Thanks, that’s the double bind though isn’t it? My point really, women don’t organise their lives around the decent men (who are by far and away the majority) but the bad ones.

68453 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1355 of 1641 🔗

Yes, it’s difficult sometimes if you are man to know what best to do.

It sometimes feels as if as a man you are guilty until proven innocent (which of course is almost impossible). I don’t know how as a society we’ve got to this.

And when I go into shops now unmuzzled I’m regarded as a disease threat, or at least inconsiderate in the extreme.

I think muzzles may make the wearer’s eyes look more threatening than they really are though, perhaps because we miss all the other facial expressions, and everyone’s body language is already tense with the environment they find themselves in.

It’s difficult for a man I think to appreciate what some women may be perceiving.

68464 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to TJN, 4, #1356 of 1641 🔗

I agree, and the thing with PTSD and trauma, the poor sufferer is already in a state of overload, so is perceiving threat anyway. It’s very inhumane this policy, because all people, traumatised or not, communicate non verbally. We are far more social, and we operate like herd animals more than we realise. Those social conventions, and checks on our worst instincts are collaborative, collective and largely unconscious. I think that’s why it’s so unsettling.

68429 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James H, replying to BecJT, 6, #1357 of 1641 🔗

That’s an excellent reason for not wearing a mask.

68422 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 7, #1358 of 1641 🔗

I agree Bec. My closest friends have always been blokes (not a girly type, me). But some men just don’t get the fear that we can face, especially when we were younger. Now, I just look like an old battle-axe so don’t get bothered that much.

Had a boyfriend once who when I was a bit hacked off about stuff would say “ooh, have you got the builders in” to which I would reply “no, I’m pissed off because you’re being a tosser”

68445 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 8, #1359 of 1641 🔗

I’m the same, not a girly girl, but I’m tall and blonde, and when I was young, it was absolutely relentless, just endless, from about the age of 12. I’m mid forties now, it’s less but hasn’t stopped. I think gallant men would be shocked what gets said and done to women. Some drunk twat trying to talk to you, really leering, so you ignore them, then they start touching you, ‘do you think you are too good for the likes of me then?’ it’s terrifying. I stood in the middle of a pub once and shouted at the top of my lungs ‘take your f**king hands off me!’ – whole place went quiet.

68468 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 6, #1360 of 1641 🔗

Good for you, though it shouldn’t have to come to that.

My ‘builder comment’ b/f got his just desserts. We used to work for the same investment bank, known each other for years but he had climbed the greasy pole to become a fund manager and I was still ‘back office’ He was acutely embarrassed about this and wouldn’t admit we were a couple. Anyway, I had to deliver a report on the floor where he worked and he bumped into me and said “oh, I didn’t recognise you …” to which I replied (very loudly) “what, with my clothes on?” He didn’t know where to look, in and amongst all the Petronellas he wanted to get in with!

68471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, #1361 of 1641 🔗

Haha, good for you! I’ve had a fair few dealings with those chaps, I know precisely the sort you mean!

68474 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 3, #1362 of 1641 🔗

I am dark (think Mediterranean), and never really experienced problems when growing up like you and many friends. Roll forward to early twenties and extended work trip to Japan, with all my fellow blonds, male and female, being advised they would attract much attention. Nope. I came into my own. I didn’t understand why until I was sat on my own in an ice cream parlour and a mother came in with her little girl, aged about 4. Little girl sat beside me, and started touching my hair. It was the curls that fascinated them (think Crystal Tipps when left to its own devices)!

68548 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to BecJT, #1363 of 1641 🔗

Women are absolutely more vulnerable and maybe men don’t fully appreciate this. Being solo I never go out without knowing how I’m going to get home safely even if this means driving and not drinking.
I don’t catch taxis as apart from the costs, and previous experience of dangerous driving/not knowing where going, i don’t trust travelling alone with a strange man in a taxi. (if there were female drivers i probably would, but not many of those around).
Sad but have to watch your back most of the time but it doesn’t stop me from going out and I travel extensively abroad alone which i love but just cautious and aware of surroundings etc

68461 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #1364 of 1641 🔗

Some definitely. But not all, by any means.

68469 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1365 of 1641 🔗

As I said, that’s irrelevant because the bad ones don’t wear a badge, and they look just like the good ones. Therefore women’s lives are curtailed simply because we don’t know which is which. Personally think that’s on all men to sort out.

68540 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BecJT, #1366 of 1641 🔗

I believe cheezilla has a good point. Bad man abuses woman. Woman distrusts all men. Good man is indirectly percieved with suspicion. Good man suffers because of bad man. It’s not irrelevant or immaterial.

68399 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to kh1485, 11, #1367 of 1641 🔗

I know, every perv and weirdo is currently feeling very emboldened. I’ll be ripping the f**kers masks off and filming their face if I see it. Imagine being WITH an abuser right now, I knew a woman who had to keep her eyes on the floor at all times when out in public, in case she mouthed ‘help’ at anyone. He can hiss at you now, poke you in the back, make you stand there helpless, and no one can see. I heard a woman on the radio, absolutely beside herself with panic at covering her face, hyperventilating. The ‘therapist’ told her to get an ‘exemption certificate’ from the doctor, which is utterly incorrect advice, you just self cert. Oxfordshire Rape Crisis have told women to ‘practice’ at home with different fabrics, you know, see how the panic goes! I am so angry. It’s unconscionable what we are doing. Even ex service men, traumatised from combat, need to scan the environment, to see who is coming.

68405 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to BecJT, 2, #1368 of 1641 🔗

Caught a bit of Womans Hour, it was about mental health of some sort but the interviewee said “so I’ve just had a breakdown and all he could suggest was eat more soy!”.

68428 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1369 of 1641 🔗

FFS.

68521 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1370 of 1641 🔗

Which hour was that? On the BBC every hour is Woman’s Hour.

68407 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BecJT, 2, #1371 of 1641 🔗

Good post bec. It matters to me to point out that ‘she’ can hiss and dig him in the back too. I don’t mean to be smart or clever – just aware men get abuse too.

68425 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Basics, 1, #1372 of 1641 🔗

I don’t want to derail my post, but the stats are a joke (reporting cap, delay in reporting etc, DV is an overwhelmingly male crime, women are over whelmingly the victims, where men are the victims, the perp is almost always male – this is my specialist subject) but yes it’s an abuser’s wet dream. Men commit 99.9% of all violent and sexual crime though, so I think I’m allowed a post about women. That said, many people of both sexes suffer PTSD for a variety of reasons, not all of them violent or sexual, so my point stands, it’s still incredibly difficult for anyone with PTSD to wear a mask. I don’t want to start a discussion about men and DV, if you want to do that, can you start your own post?

68526 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to BecJT, #1373 of 1641 🔗

I think you have made yourself perfectly clear. As did i.

68546 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #1374 of 1641 🔗

According to the Office of National Statistics (ONS) about 4.2% of men and 7.9% of women suffered domestic abuse in England and Wales during 2018. This equates to about 685,000 male victims and 1,300,000 women.

685,000. That’s my latst comment to your thread.

68554 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, #1375 of 1641 🔗

But the 685,000 is of no consequence as far as the rabid feminists are concerned. They have one-track minds. In their book, all men are evil. I wonder if they’re concerned about the supposed imbalance in bat flu deaths between men and women; I guess not.

68400 ▶▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to kh1485, 3, #1376 of 1641 🔗

Thinking about it, I am probably examining peoples faces a lot more at the moment Natural reaction, Something to be conscious of and try to minimise.

68401 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to kh1485, 2, #1377 of 1641 🔗

Worst I’ve had is them pointedly looking away and some confusion when the staff don’t question me.

68432 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1378 of 1641 🔗

Yeah I think it’s more the perverts and nasty people are enjoying having a good leer, they’ll be doing so minus their nuts if they do it to me or anyone I see.

68440 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, 7, #1379 of 1641 🔗

BecJT, I think I read recently about evidence from Japan, where mask wearing is already more common (air quality-related) from women on public transport. I agree with this, and some of your follow-up comments, this is especially problematic on public transport and in other spaces, such as car parks. As a woman, you are taught/realise from an early age to spot danger. Ordinarily, if you saw a man in a mask and you were on your own you would ‘run’. I lived in central London, and if I sensed anyone within my space (instinctively as a town girl, always look over my shoulder), I crossed the road, called husband, anything to get out of the way. Had a very scary experience when approached by a tramp in London – I was very pregnant and huge, and couldn’t run – never felt so vulnerable.

68480 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1380 of 1641 🔗

Totally understand, and I’ve had a fair few close calls too, very, very scary. And only a man could have invented the multi storey carpark, I’d honestly rather not go anywhere, than use them, hate them, every floor I trundle up for a space, I’m worrying about the scary stairwell coming down! I think all humans communicate mostly non verbally, we are signalling all the time that we are safe, want to cooperate, we are minding our own business, that’s why our instincts kick in instantly if something is incongruous, we might not even be able to say what the visual cue was, but we know it’s there. The tube must be hell right now, London is a pretty ruthless town at the best of times. After Worboys, even the saying ‘a black cab is a girl’s best friend’ rings a little hollow! Sexual assault in Japan on public transport is endemic already, I’ve read about that too.

68510 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to BecJT, #1381 of 1641 🔗

I thought it wouldn’t be long before the moaning, virtue-signalling, feminist agitators found their way on here. Everything’s the fault of men according to you lot. Thankfully, real women have no truck with this crap. And it’s “victim”, not “survivor”.

68396 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 15, #1382 of 1641 🔗

My Dutch friends messaged me today telling me that their FB group “No to 1.5 Metre ” 171,000 members has just been shut down they are regrouping through several different groups to try to keep the numbers under the radar ,the powers that be are certainly trying to keep opposition under control

68598 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1383 of 1641 🔗

Censorship is rife. Good on them

68419 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 14, #1384 of 1641 🔗

UN estimates that up to 10,000 children are dying a month due to hunger caused by coronavirus restrictions In life years lost, a hunger death is worth around ~70 COVID-19 deaths So in a single month, lockdowns reduce life by more than COVID-19 reduced it in eight months. Perhaps WHO should have consulted other UN org before recommending lockdowns in Africa? Any comments MSM investigating left wing journalism?

68427 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to swedenborg, 7, #1385 of 1641 🔗

”Any comments MSM investigating left wing journalism?”

Presumably the MSM feel those black lives don’t matter so much

68458 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1386 of 1641 🔗

What ‘left wing’ journalism?

68482 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 2, #1387 of 1641 🔗

Well you could start with the state-funded broadcaster, the BBC, which is generally recognised as openly left-wing in the sympathies of its staff, and then run through most of the mainstream broadcasters and even the newspapers, whose journalists and editors are majority Labour/LibDem supporters even when their owners and official policy positions are not, or objectively left-wing in their political sympathies (supporters of collective healthcare, welfarism, internationalism, climate alarmism, political correctness etc)..

68573 ▶▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Mark, 2, #1388 of 1641 🔗

This kind of thing is why I’m so sick of the so called “left wing” media now (and, increasingly, the parties they support). The direct consequences of lockdowns etc. in developed countries are more than bad enough. The consequences (including indirect ones from the worldwide economic slump) in the Third World will likely dwarf even Neil Ferguson’s doom-mongering predictions for the effects of Covid-19.

68492 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to RickH, 3, #1389 of 1641 🔗

what ‘journalism’?

68623 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, #1390 of 1641 🔗

Most of it.

68561 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to swedenborg, #1391 of 1641 🔗

Is there a way of tapping into the BLM movement to get them on board in a ‘my enemy’s enemy is my friend’ way?

68591 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1392 of 1641 🔗

Problem is the BLM like masks to mask their identity while they peacfully demonstrate. Also havn’t heard much from BLM about slave markets in Lybia buying/selling black people for $200-500 each, so not much evidence African black lives matter too much to them.

68630 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1393 of 1641 🔗

I wouldn’t. It’s run by Marxists, and they have scant regard for people’s lives of any colour. If they did, they’d be more concerned about the slavery that’s going on today and not the slavery that ended hundreds of years ago.

68685 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Lms23, 1, #1394 of 1641 🔗

Just trying to think pragmatically. We are very much in the minority in case anyone hasn’t already noticed. Knowledge production is written by the victors. Unless you want to be forever labelled a crank and conspiracy theorist then there is work to be done….

68670 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1395 of 1641 🔗

The BLM are my enemy. A thuggish movement based on outright lies, pushing harmful dogmas on gullible fools and promoting mob violence.

If they aren’t your enemy you should investigate them further, imo.

68680 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mark, #1396 of 1641 🔗

Mark – I think you’ve missed my point

68710 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1397 of 1641 🔗

I don’t think so, we just disagree about the extremity of loathsomeness of BLM. My point is they aren’t just a neutral group that can be befriended tactically. In many ways they are far worse than the coronapanickers. If forced to choose I’m not sure which way I’d jump, tbh. Fortunately I don’t have to choose – I despise them both.

68759 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mark, #1398 of 1641 🔗

Think Soviet Russia and the US uniting against Nazism. Both despise each other but job done.

Anyway… it was just an idea/comment

68855 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1399 of 1641 🔗

That’s fair enough. Disagreement and debate is healthy. It’s suppressing dissenting opinions like the leftists choose to do that’s problematic.

68621 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1400 of 1641 🔗

This was all predicted months ago:
https://www.tfp.org/the-most-monumental-social-engineering-and-ideological-transshipment-effort-in-history/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Apocalyptic+Consequences+of+Mass+Hysteria&utm_campaign=TFP200508m+-+Apocalyptic+Consequences+of+Mass+Hysteria

“The Most Monumental Social Engineering and Ideological Transshipment Effort in History
April 26, 2020
Bolstered by Mass Hysteria and
Vatican Support
If the Guinness Book of Records were to track the most senseless attitude possible, the award would probably go to someone who committed suicide for fear of dying.

The global result [of the economic shutdowns] will be an exponential increase in extreme poverty. “I see no historical equivalent to the threat that COVID-19 poses to the most vulnerable populations,” said Robin Guittard, Oxfam campaign manager in France.29 In a study released on April 8, researchers at King’s College London and the National University of Australia predict that the pandemic could bring extreme poverty to half a billion of the planet’s inhabitants, destroying the progress made in the past three decades.30

The Increase in Deaths From Hunger in Poor Countries Will Be Much Greater Than That of COVID-19 Victims
The consequences of this exponential increase in poverty on the health of impoverished populations will be disastrous. Even the World Health Organization, the biggest promoter of strict stay-at-home measures, recognizes that there is a close link between extreme poverty and poor health. In a study published in conjunction with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, it recognizes the obvious, namely, that “The poor suffer worse health and die younger. They have higher than the average child and maternal mortality, higher levels of disease, and more limited access to health care and social protection.”31
Consequently, more than 3.42 million people died of hunger in the first months of 2020, a daily average of 30,800 deaths. That is, almost five times more than the global number of deaths by COVID-19 on April 5, the day registering the highest number of fatalities (6,367 victims) worldwide so far.

The World Food Program predicts that the loss of tourism revenues, the decrease in remittances and travel and other restrictions related to the coronavirus pandemic will double the number of poor people suffering from acute hunger, adding 130 million to the approximately 135 million already existing in that category. “‘COVID-19 is potentially catastrophic for millions who are already hanging by a thread,’ said Arif Husain, chief economist and director of research, assessment, and monitoring at the World Food Programme (WFP).”32 David Beasly, WFP Executive Director, exclaimed in an interview with The Guardian: “Now, my goodness, this is a perfect storm. We are looking at widespread famines of biblical proportions.”33”

There’s a lot more to this article, which is too long to post in full here.

68753 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1401 of 1641 🔗

This was known from the start, publicized by Oxfam and the World Bank, and visible to anyone who cared when Primark cancelled its orders in Bangladesh.
No one cared.
It wasn’t even mentioned in the experts and ministerial sessions in Germany (SAGE/COBRA equivalent) or in TV talk shows, even though they were also attended by the country’s foremost ethics professors, with one of them, Mrs Woopen, even being the head of the European ethics council.
Those people cared the least about deaths in the 3rd world through our lockdowns, their sole concern was and is that there are no different rules for the older or vulnerable people than for the rest, which is also why they were and are so opposed to the Swedish approach, although a former head of the protestant church and many other people endorsed that approach instead.
I have therefore come to the
conclusion that she and they are
merely existing to legitimize racism.

68424 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 29, #1402 of 1641 🔗

Yorkshire Live: Takeaway in Scarborough put up sign banning customers from wearing face masks.
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/takeaway-scarbororugh-put-up-sign-18676583

68433 ▶▶ James H, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1403 of 1641 🔗

Report the shop for a discrimination offence!

68441 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tom Blackburn, 26, #1404 of 1641 🔗

Brilliant!

No masks allowed

Masks are for:

*Hooligans

*Vigilantes

*Superheros

*Criminals

*Asbestos Workers

Remove your mask before entering

Thank you

68470 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1405 of 1641 🔗

Wonderful!

68472 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tom Blackburn, 7, #1406 of 1641 🔗

Sadly clearly got at by the mob of state-worshipping, fear-driven busybodies:

Mamma Mia’s were contacted for a comment but hung up the phone after saying that the sign had been taken down.

We do not have the numbers yet to protect such businesses.

68745 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 1, #1407 of 1641 🔗

Shame 🙁

But at least they have signalled to the public that they will not be enforcing muzzles!

68434 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 28, #1408 of 1641 🔗

Been to Waitrose Sudbury earlier. The doorman asked ‘do you have a mask’. Said ‘no’. Started the lecture ‘you might not know it but since last Friday you are required to wear a mask….’ Told him that I am staggered that he did not presume that I was exempt. That I regard this as harassment and discrimination and that it is not for me to provide him with any details.

Well done Waitrose, you shop is eerily empty today not sure how you are going to compete with Amazon groceries and other online retailers. Used to buy all my wine from Waitrose, now from an online wine merchant. Also buying other groceries from realfoods.co.uk

68456 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 12, #1409 of 1641 🔗

Well done Waitrose, you shop is eerily empty today”

Precisely the observation made by my partner yeterday.

68466 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Victoria, 18, #1410 of 1641 🔗

Waitrose is definitely one of the bad guys with regard to their approach to masks. They are in breach of the government regs. when their staff even question you. Check this out:

http://laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

I went into Sainsburys (Otley) last night and all they have is a notice that says:

‘Would customers please wear a face covering if possible’

Once inside there is no staff questioning at all. The wonderful bonus was that there was even a Tannoy announcement asking for understanding toward customers who were not wearing a face covering.

Very impressed by Sainsburys—take your business there.

I intend to write to Waitrose today about their awful policy (my local branch is the same) as I have done in recent days to Bettys (Harrogate) and Waterstones (Harrogate) both of whom breach government regulations in their approach to mask wearing.

68520 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #1411 of 1641 🔗

sainsbury’s here i come then! It will be my first venture into the zombie land of shopping this week! 🙂 to be honest everyone wearing masks just freaks me out, and feel as if in a parallel universe. I could handle oneway systems etc (just) but masks are just crazy.
I’ve printed out the exemption form from the government’s site from brian’s post above and will put in purse if challenged.

68566 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1412 of 1641 🔗

What’s the Co-op’s policy like? They’re the nearest large(ish) supermarket to my home, after my local corner shop who are rather intimidatingly pro-mask (long before it was mandatory)

68600 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Drawde927, 2, #1413 of 1641 🔗

I couldn’t say about the co-op. The only way is to test the water. If you are a member of the ‘awkward squad’ like me you will just go in and take it from there (always courteous of course). If you are nervous and cannot stand going against the crowd even though you know it’s all rubbish take the way that doesn’t make you feel stressed. We’re all different and we’re all negotiating this minefield in our own way.

68622 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Drawde927, #1414 of 1641 🔗

I was told last week by one of their checkout girls that they’d been instructed to wear masks themselves, unless they were behind screens, but not to challenge any customers not wearing them. There was some correspondence posted here yesterday suggesting they might have shifted a little to “advising” maskless customers, but still no enforcement I think.

Anyway I’ve continued to shop at my local co-op and been in maskless several times since Friday and had no approaches from the staff.

68740 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Drawde927, #1415 of 1641 🔗

I had absolutely no problem there in SW London, and I wasn’t alone in wearing no mask.

68449 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 11, #1416 of 1641 🔗

Tide is changing? Now from the Director CDC Robert Redfield,US
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/micaelaburrow/2020/07/28/redfield-says-more-abovebase-suicides-than-covid-deaths-n2573278
Center for Disease Control Director Robert Redfield testified in a Buck Institute webinar that suicides and drug overdoses have surpassed the death rate for COVID-19. Redfield argued that lockdowns and lack of public schooling constituted a disproportionally negative impact on young peoples’ mental health.“We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from COVID. We’re seeing far greater deaths from drug overdose that are above excess that we had as background than we are seeing the deaths from COVID,” he said.
Where Redfield obtained his data is unknown, although a doctor at John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, CA claimed the facility has “seen a year’s worth of suicide attempts in the last four weeks.” He did not say how many deaths occurred, or whether the statement was exaggerated for emphasis. “What I have seen recently, I have never seen before,” Hansen said. “I have never seen so much intentional injury,” said a nurse from the same hospital.

However final statistics for suicide and drug overdose is due 2021 or 2022.But I think Robert Redfield knows some very bad data already, therefore his sudden conviction that US schools must reopen despite the Unions and the MSM.

68532 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1417 of 1641 🔗

2nd wave will be deaths from all of the above

68739 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, #1418 of 1641 🔗

No sh*it Sherlock.
To be expected, just as the extra cancer and cardio deaths.
But they were and are ‘worth’ only a fraction of each Corona death, which is of course completely unethical and just sick.

68452 woolzz@ntlworld.com, #1419 of 1641 🔗

The Americanfrontlinedoctors material is extremely cogent and it is scary how much Big Pharma is doing to undermine Hydroxychloroquine- a safe drug in use widely, over the counter in lots of places since the 1800s. The frontline doctors website has been hacked/taken down. Their video may still be available on Breitbart. Naturally the BBC’s line on the doctors is “Trump again backs controversial dangerous drug”, i.e. nothing to see here, Trump is mad and bad. Great work BBC.

68460 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 7, #1420 of 1641 🔗

Sky news now reporting, ”when there is a second wave….” – it is coming/being fabricate for definite now.

All the bedwetters will have their free flu jabs and if, like in 2017/18 (see link below), it is ineffective we could possibly have the corrupt media in hospitals this winter filming the anual flu chaos in hospitals falsely claiming it is a covid 2nd wave and ”can’t be flu because of mass free flu vaccination”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/30/winter-deaths-hit-highest-level-40-years-experts-blame-ineffective/

”Ineffective flu jab blamed as extra winter deaths hit 40-year high”
”There were an estimated 50,100 excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017/18 – the highest recorded since winter 1975/76, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.”

68484 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Major Panic, 8, #1421 of 1641 🔗

And it will all be our fault, you wouldn’t wear gloves, you went to Spain and stayed fat…

68489 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1422 of 1641 🔗

yes, I’m guilty of all of them….

68563 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Major Panic, 5, #1423 of 1641 🔗

I’ve been wondering what will happen once the flu season starts. Will we be expected to treat it with the same maximum-safety approach as Covid (back to masks and distancing) or, more likely, are flu hospital cases and deaths going to be diagnosed as Covid? That certainly happened in March and April (pneumonia etc. as well), and it could be an easy way of manufacturing a “second wave”…

68462 stefarm, 2, #1424 of 1641 🔗
68485 Alec in France, replying to Alec in France, 12, #1425 of 1641 🔗

Small victory to report here in France.

Click&collect (‘Drive’ in France) at Intermarche, our preferred supermarket, involves going into the store to ask at reception, so face nappy required since 20 July.

Not willing to muzzle up, last week we drove 20 km further to the Leclerc hypermarket, which has an external ‘Drive’ delivery point.

This week Intermarche sent me a customer survey.

I told them I was very happy but regretfully was unlikely to go back until the muzzles regulations are relaxed.

Very polite email reply – “…completely understand, can’t do anything about the law but as long as these regulations are in force please phone the store when you arrive and we’ll bring your shopping out to the car park.”

Result!

On our last visit (before 20.07.) only about a third of shoppers were muzzled.
Be interesting to see how many antimaskers there are this week.
There’s quite a hefty fine for not complying, so probably won’t be many.

68495 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Alec in France, 3, #1426 of 1641 🔗

Last week, after the regs came into force, supermarket and shop car parks were unusually empty, not least because it’s the tourist season.
Most noticeable was Gifi, a shop selling tat (oops!) er, things you didn’t know you needed until you get there.
Normally very busy – only a handful of cars.

68624 ▶▶▶ Michael C, replying to Alec in France, 3, #1427 of 1641 🔗

Back in sunny London our nearest Sainsburys Local in Wandsworth continues to be very quiet even though Sainsburys, as evidenced by a number of LS contributors. is one of the most relaxed about masks. Normally on a day like this there would be easily a dozen people waiting to go in, this week I have not had to queue on any day to enter. Clearly the mandatory masks are putting off shoppers.

68668 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Michael C, 1, #1428 of 1641 🔗

I’ve heard a Sainsbury’s ad a few time on classic FM that’s not actually an ad, just a request for customers to wear masks. Reaction to mask mob saying don’t shop there, when they were one of the first stores to say their staff would not be enforcing the rule ?

68822 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Alec in France, #1429 of 1641 🔗

Update:

Just been to collect the shopping.

Phoned from and was met in the car park, which was much emptier than two weeks ago.

Only snag was that their credit card terminal uses bluetooth and so won’t work outside the store.

The staff member just told me to follow him into reception (‘don’t worry about not having a mask’) to pay. No problems – didn’t even notice any dirty looks.

The shop was VERY quiet – only a handful of shoppers (all masked, mostly below the nose though) and only one till in operation instead of the usual 3 or so on a midweek afternoon.

With 30 or so staff to pay, they must be a long way from making any profit.

68493 Brian, replying to Brian, 8, #1430 of 1641 🔗

This is the link to the governments official mask exemptions that can be downloaded and printed
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own
There is one for mobile phones one for a badge and one for a card.

Exemption cards or badges Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.
This is a personal choice, and is not necessary in law.
If you would like to use an exemption card you can use the PDF attachments on this page.
Those who have an age, health or disability reason to not wear a face covering should not be routinely asked to provide any written evidence of this. Written evidence includes exemption cards.

What is significant about these official mask exemptions.
All the they say is . “I am exempt from wearing a face covering”
“Be kind. Keep your distance. Thank you for understanding”

  1. There are no questions asked or checks before downloading them

They do not ask your name or sex or date of birth or age or why you want them.
The government guidance says that you do not even need an exemption card.
2.The cards do not have any serial number.
3.They do not say they are from the government
4.They do not reference any law or guidance
5.They do not give a reason why someone is exempt
6.They look less official than the unofficial cards you can get
7.They even say you can make a home made sign.

would one feel happy with such an anonymous card.
I am not aware of the government issuing guidance to shops or security to respect these exemption cards or anyone not wearing a face covering.
The message is you could be find £100 or refused service or travel
So yet another contradictory policy

68502 ▶▶ matt, replying to Brian, 21, #1431 of 1641 🔗

I’ve said this before, but this (and other freely available exemption cards along the same lines), together with the fact that the only kind of certification is self-certification and the fact that the categories for exemptions are so broad that virtually anybody could consider themselves to be exempt if they want to, show that the government isn’t the slightest bit interested in whether or not people actually wear face masks and recognises that the whole thing is a farce.

68511 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to matt, 8, #1432 of 1641 🔗

Entering shops mask-less is becoming easier and easier. After some initial reticence, once you’ve got a few cornershops, offies and post offices under your belt, it’s all a doddle from there.

68518 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #1433 of 1641 🔗

Matt, Brian, Tom: Good points all. Brian, the ‘guidance to shops or security’ is actually in what you have posted.

Thing is shops are not looking at the actual law or guidance, they are just making it up, based on two words: mandatory masks.

I think it all goes back to the same old thing, the stroppy shops are only really worried about the cost of someone possibly sueing them – even though they are not looking at the actual law!

68817 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1434 of 1641 🔗

I think I am going to be able to go bareface soon without even giving it a 2nd thought.

68514 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 5, #1435 of 1641 🔗

I wish I could agree with you. They know it’s a farce, of course, but they want broad compliance to cover up their lies. And from my limited observations they are getting that. If compliance drops to a point where it’s being heavily reported on MSM, they will ramp up the propaganda, start fining people etc.

68524 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Julian, 1, #1436 of 1641 🔗

Through all this shitshow, it has basically been “expect the unexpected”.Or certainly, “anything is possible – however absurd”.

68642 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 1, #1437 of 1641 🔗

I think the expect broad compliance because recent experience tells them they will get broad compliance. Personally I’m torn between the idea that they want to keep things abnormal to cover up their mistake and the idea that they mandated them because public opinion, as conveyed by MSM and social media was telling them that’s what they should do. Currently I’m inclined towards the latter.

68647 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 3, #1438 of 1641 🔗

It’s both. And one begets the other. In perpetuity.

68666 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #1439 of 1641 🔗

I’m with Fari on that one – as a general rule, in my experience, a major policy adopted by government usually has multiple lobbies/arguments pushing in the same direction.

68672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mark, 1, #1440 of 1641 🔗

Yes, I also agree. I’ve long thought this about the Iraq war for example. We like to think it’s one thing, either the official narrative, or pick one of the alternatives, like oil. In reality, there are probably half a dozen, or more, major lobbying groups all wanting the same thing for different reasons.

68702 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1441 of 1641 🔗

Exactly, the Iraq War is one of my favourite examples – no one lobby could create that policy and push it through, it required multiple interest groups pushing in the same direction – an alignment of malign interests.

In this case we are talking about arguments in favour of a policy rather than lobbies but the same principle applies, mutatis mutandis.

68731 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Julian, #1442 of 1641 🔗

I can’t see how they can fine people, unless they make medical certificates mandatory.
Which poses an unnecessary Corona infection risk through the visit to the GP and data protection issues, I guess.

68625 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to matt, 3, #1443 of 1641 🔗

I made this point a week or two ago

  1. List if exemptions so long, they could apply to anyone especially the distress bit.
  2. Places where not required-also a long list
  3. No need to prove anything- just self exempt
  4. Government website kindly provide cards to print out.
  5. If you are challenged, tell them they are breaking the Equality Act 2010 and could face a £5000 fine.
  6. Is there anyone in the U.K. who still needs to wear a face mask given the above list?

Sorted!

68734 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Margaret, #1444 of 1641 🔗

No one who is enlightened and as such dares to think for himself will wear a mask under these circumstances.
Just tells you how few still are.

68694 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to matt, 1, #1445 of 1641 🔗

Yes, this must be true. If there was a genuine public health danger in people entering indoor public places with their mouths and noses uncovered, a danger which the government had received advice on, then the government is being highly reckless in allowing the regulations mandating the wearing of masks being so easily circumvented. So we can be sure that it is just a gesture to appease public opinion. We are being lied to when told it is a public health measure.

68727 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to matt, 1, #1446 of 1641 🔗

The Austrian chancellor just admitted it’s mainly symbolic.

In Austria, Germany etc. you have to have a medical certificate and the guards demand to see them upon entry.
The guards love their jobs and new found importance, but then they have practice and a reputation for that over there.

The upshot is that those certificates are then valid across the EU.
I can’t see them or the French accepting this UK badge, but I’ll try it in a few weeks and will report back.

68804 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jay Berger, #1447 of 1641 🔗

Reminds me of 1980’s Interail, guards of many nations passing down the train demanding ‘Papers Please’, show them the corner of a battered UK passport and it’s ‘yeah wotever: next!’
Sorry if that sounds a bit Brexity but it’s how it was.

68820 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, #1448 of 1641 🔗

Source for info re Austrian chancellor? Not doubting your info, it would just be interesting to hear exactly what he said!

68816 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to matt, #1449 of 1641 🔗

Exactly

68529 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Brian, 4, #1450 of 1641 🔗

They want us fighting in the supermarket aisles about who is and who isn’t exempt to keep us distracted from what they are up to.

68533 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 4, #1451 of 1641 🔗

Forgot the last bit, if they refuse you entry or travel after you have said you are exempt because of disability they become guilty of discrimination.

68544 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Brian, 3, #1452 of 1641 🔗

Is this right?

You can obtain an “exemption card” by going online and downloading one – correct?

You certify yourself – correct?

But you don’t have to show it anyone?

If all the above are correct one can’t be fined because all you have to say is I’m exempt. I’ve decided myself that I am.

Mr. Plod will, though, will have to arrest for this is tested

68551 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #1453 of 1641 🔗

If plod arrest you for not wearing a nappy they are potentially guilty of discrimination against a disabled person with hidden disabilities – minefield….

68586 ▶▶▶▶ James H, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1454 of 1641 🔗

Great, isn’t it? The whole campaign is utterly flawed.

68700 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to James H, 2, #1455 of 1641 🔗

I think they are wanting high compliance, but at the same time carefully protecting themselves against future court cases (and prosecutions) by making everything ‘guidelines’. Whilst at the same time using the media to promote them as law (to get compliance)…

68576 ▶▶▶ James H, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1456 of 1641 🔗

I can only imagine (in the sense that I have no expert knowledge) that any attempt to enforce such a regulation by means of a fixed penalty notice – which one refuses, of course – and prosecution through the Court would be exceedingly hard for the police to pursue as there appear to be so many pitfalls _for the prosecutor_.

68818 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1457 of 1641 🔗

mr plod will attempt to fine you if you have not already fled the shop. He can probably arrest you if continue to attempt to buy stuff AND refuse to identify yourself (bear in mind that it still not a requirement in this country to carry ID unless you are driving a motor vehicle).
You refuse to pay the fine on the grounds of Reasonable Excuse so the case goes to Court, already 6 months adrift due to the Covid/Lockdown

68553 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Brian, 1, #1458 of 1641 🔗

Thanks for link – downloaded a few copies to have in my purse if needed!
You’re right that there isn’t any government signage or anything. Very wide open and maybe that’s intentional?

68815 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Brian, #1459 of 1641 🔗

You don’t need a badge, your just exempt as you want to avoid harm or distress to yourself and others. That’s it, nothing to prove to anybody.

68501 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1460 of 1641 🔗

If Swedens strategy failed then why are countries opening up to be “more like Sweden” every day?

There is no way that Swedens approach can be legitimised. What can they do that’s different? Make mandatory mask wearing the deligitimiser.

68512 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Nobody2020, 19, #1461 of 1641 🔗

Everyone who is paying attention knows that Sweden’s strategy didn’t fail. They need to open countries up a bit in order not to wreck the economy – at least that is my reading. The Tories want to be re-elected and they can’t do that if the economy is utterly screwed (well, more screwed than it already is). Masks are a convenient way if explaining away the lack of a second wave as we open up. They cannot afford to simply say it’s all over. That’s my take, anyway.

68714 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Julian, 1, #1462 of 1641 🔗

Reelection is far off.
They have no competition on the right.
The whole country and the vast majority of their supporters have become super-bedwetters.
They have nothing to gain electorally by readopting common sense and reembracing liberties and freedom.
They know that, and that’s why they sold out these values and us people who cherish them, why we are where we are and will stay for years, unless something very, very significant changes.

68515 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1463 of 1641 🔗

Exactly.

68631 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Farinances, #1464 of 1641 🔗

Makes sense, PM was going on about the many 100,000 lives saved by the great incarceration which was obvious nonsense. (Peak deaths 8 April hence peak infection 16 March hence no significant effect)

68519 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 8, #1465 of 1641 🔗
68599 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #1466 of 1641 🔗

Picture feels like I’m looking at a flower meadow through soros eyes.

68618 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Edgar Friendly, #1467 of 1641 🔗

Until there’s a ‘ceasefire’ and the summer of love can continue.

68531 Nobody2020, 3, #1468 of 1641 🔗

One of my favourite books/films. From my perspective, Ralph represents the skeptics.

Lord of the Flies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_the_Flies

At an allegorical level, the central theme is the conflicting human impulses toward civilisation and social organisation—living by rules, peacefully and in harmony—and toward the will to power. Themes include the tension between groupthink and individuality, between rational and emotional reactions, and between morality and immorality.

The semblance of order quickly deteriorates as the majority of the boys turn idle; they give little aid in building shelters, spend their time having fun and begin to develop paranoias about the island. The central paranoia refers to a supposed monster they call the “beast”, which they all slowly begin to believe exists on the island. Ralph insists that no such beast exists, but Jack, who has started a power struggle with Ralph, gains a level of control over the group by boldly promising to kill the creature. At one point, Jack summons all of his hunters to hunt down a wild pig, drawing away those assigned to maintain the signal fire. A ship travels by the island, but without the boys’ smoke signal to alert the ship’s crew, the vessel continues without stopping. Ralph angrily confronts Jack about his failure to maintain the signal; in frustration Jack assaults Piggy, breaking one of the lenses of his glasses. The boys subsequently enjoy their first feast. Angered by the failure of the boys to attract potential rescuers, Ralph considers relinquishing his position as leader, but is persuaded not to do so by Piggy, who both understands Ralph’s importance and fears what will become of him should Jack take total control .

68542 Mark II, replying to Mark II, 4, #1469 of 1641 🔗

My latest issue of Private Eye has landed this morning, I can see (both in this issue and previous) MD is having something of a battle with themselves. They can see somethings not quite right, but clearly by their nature want to be on the ‘right side’ and they believe the right side to be the panicky ‘if it saves one life’ type.

They start this week with ‘The cover up’ which points out there is no evidence masks work, but then says ‘Masks are being introduced on the back of observational studies, rather than RCTs… Just as we dont have RCT proof that eye protection, social distancing etc work’. Instead of then taking the logical position of ‘so we should not be mandating these things’ they opt for ‘We need largescale trials of masks and Sars-CoV-2 spread’

Second block is ‘Logic failure’ where they point out the ridiculousness of the mask mandate and it’s lack of consistency (shops indoors, banks, not restaurants etc) vs countries that just impose them everywhere. Again they acknowledge risks of masks not being used right, how poor people cant afford them, but they fail to address issue of effectiveness of types of masks, the likelihood of them ever being used right or their negative side effects for many. In fact, they claim ‘masks do not reduce your oxygen saturation’ – I don’t believe this is proven, especially given the variety of materials being used, so is a bold thing to claim.

All in all, each week it feels like MD is on the cusp of a realisation (I recall one issue a few back where they addressed that people should be able to assess their own risk, but then nothing on that since) about Covid-19, the over-reaction, what’s _right_ vs what ‘s _wrong_, but then they force themselves to virtue signal / go the panicky route, just cos they don’t want to face reality. Throwaway comments like ‘The governments target of deaths below 20,000 was undone not just by late lockdown…’ somehow sit side by side with ‘the prevalence of corona is now so low…’

Frustrating, as I rely on Private Eye to give totally unbiased investigative views on things, they’ve done well, as usual, to point out the business corruption involved (when pointing out GSK/Astrazeneca are involved in both Pillar2 testing AND developing vaccines they’ll make money off if needed) and the shit-ness of our politicians, but have really failed to look pragmatically at lockdowns, the stripping of liberties and so on.

They do at least have a funny cartoon in MD this issue of captioned ‘I said, isn’t it GREAT things are back to normal’ under the cartoon of 2 masked men attempted to shout at each other through masks whilst distanced in a pub.

68565 ▶▶ James H, replying to Mark II, 9, #1470 of 1641 🔗

Private Eye has long since become an organ of the Establishment. Sadly.

68577 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to James H, 1, #1471 of 1641 🔗

I’d very strongly disagree with that, and sometimes people too quick to label anything they don’t like the content of as ‘MSM’ or ‘Establishment’ – Private Eye is one of the very few places you can find the government & big business being held to account – _usually_ – on Covid they have been poor, no doubt.

68612 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark II, 1, #1472 of 1641 🔗

Some aspects of government and big business, as has been clearly illustrated by their enthusiastic embrace of the coronapanic. Not the politically correct ones, generally, except in the most extreme and obviously absurd cases.

Generally, people on the establishment left like the way Private Eye has drifted, while conservatives, traditionalists and right wingers don’t.

68617 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, 1, #1473 of 1641 🔗

“Some aspects” makes it even worse. if you have seen them taking the establishment to account on most matters – as private eye have done, the assumption is that they will do this consistently and so what they report on all matters is correct .. BBC were the same – they were once seen as being generally unbiased.. Now if i read a BBC weather report i will look out of the window to check ..

68613 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to James H, #1474 of 1641 🔗

Both Hislop and Johnson picked for stardom at Oxford, a terrible curse.

68570 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Mark II, 3, #1475 of 1641 🔗

Again they acknowledge risks of masks not being used right, how poor people cant afford them ,

A single mother on a limited income told me she had to spend £15 on 3 masks for her and her 2 children (5 and 7) to be able to go to the supermarket. As a result she had to cut down on groceries for this month. She assumed masks were for children over 3 as she heard that you should not put masks on children under 3 as it is a chocking hazard. She also has mask anxiety issues.

So grateful when I told her about the exemption and also that masks are advised for children over 11.

68810 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Victoria, #1476 of 1641 🔗

Phew, you should tell her she is EXEPMT, just like everybody else is.

68547 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #1477 of 1641 🔗

https://twitter.com/BDUTT/status/1288092744338956290/photo/1
Fascinating result from Mumbai seroprevalence study. 57% seroprevalence in slums 16% in non slums. Study period first two weeks in July. 6936 samples. Abbot test. IFR must be incredibly low0.05-0.1%. Absolute majority of cases asymptomatic. How many millions in Mumbai? Best not to put them on worldometer!.Welcome to reality, all senior epidemiologists. Do you really think you can stop this with track and test, contact trace or masks?

68582 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1478 of 1641 🔗

Consistent with seroprevalence results in poor parts of New York.

68556 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 10, #1479 of 1641 🔗

Visited a local independent coffee shop. Very relaxed, unfortunately just before finishing my coffee one of the staff came to the table with a clipboard requesting that I should complete my details. Told her No as it is voluntary according to the Government – she had no clue. These people try their best without knowing the regulations properly.

The more scary part of the visit was the local reverend that arrived in a black mask and black ‘priest outfit’ – did not know they still wear these things. The previous reverend wore normal clothes. Men should not wear black masks as it is extremely menacing.

He then proceeded to ask the person behind the counter why she did not have a mask on and then lectured her on the value of wearing a mask.

68579 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Victoria, 9, #1480 of 1641 🔗

The other alternative, and to save yourself any hassle, is to give a false name and ‘phone number. Make one up as your non de plume and try and keep a straight face as you say it.
I find there is a certain pleasure in giving information that is nothing short of garbage. In fact I have reached a point now where I am disappointed if I am NOT ASKED for my details because it deprives me of an opportunity to add to the great pile of misinformation out there. If the ‘Guvment’ are insistent in giving us lies and crap it gives me a certain satisfaction to reply with same.

68593 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #1481 of 1641 🔗

Perhaps ask if the pen and book are covid-safe. Italicise the word safe please.

68608 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #1482 of 1641 🔗

It’s illegal to give a false name, so if you’re tracked it could be a problem.

Legally you are allowed to refuse permission for them to forward your data to T&T, therefore there’s no reason for them to collect your details in the first place.

If they get stroppy, ask to see a copy of their Data Protection Impact Assessment (DPIA). 😉

68658 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Cheezilla, #1483 of 1641 🔗

Bearing in mind the Guvment’s track and trace methods are non existent (it’s all fear porn) and bearing in mind I do not have a ‘smart’ phone and have a ficticious phone number as well, could you explain to me how on earth I could be tracked?

68787 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, #1484 of 1641 🔗

If you haven’t paid with cash – depends how determined they are though. I know it’s all basically a lot of noise on the part of HMG.

68807 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #1485 of 1641 🔗

Establishments are not allowed to use booking data to enter into the track and trace register.

68764 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #1486 of 1641 🔗

I don’t think it is illegal to give a false name, there is no obligation for anybody to verify that you have given the correct details. Or for the person giving the details to verify them. Its also voluntary. So its academic anyway, volunteer not to give your details.

68742 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1487 of 1641 🔗

I’m Matt Handjob wherever I go now. Probably the closest I’ll ever get to being trans.

68592 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 1, #1488 of 1641 🔗

Black masks on a rev. Is he trying to look cool – it is clearly an unwelcoming appearance. Even a cowboy bandana is more friendly.

68596 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Victoria, #1489 of 1641 🔗

are you sure he was a reverend and not just a flasher hiding his identity

68605 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Victoria, 1, #1490 of 1641 🔗

Reinforces my feeling about the utter malignity of the modern mainstream Christian churches, especially CoE. It’s long been a vehicle for pushing political correctness and leftist zealotry in general and seems to have seamlessly shifted to pushing the coronapanic in the most fanatical and fundamentally dishonest or culpably ignorant ways (as you describe here).

Something to do with the kinds of people attracted into the church over the past generation or two, clearly..

68628 ▶▶▶ peter, replying to Mark, 1, #1491 of 1641 🔗

If he truly believed in God he would not need a mask. What a charlatan.

68652 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to peter, 2, #1492 of 1641 🔗

Hmm, I’m pretty sure (regardless of this reverend’s beliefs) that God does NOT believe in the C of E; how could He with Welby ‘in charge’?

68559 Geraint, replying to Geraint, 5, #1493 of 1641 🔗

I see the ghastly WHO are now targeting young people for some ConVid caning. Is there nothing that isn’t targeted for crushing under the ConVid juggernaut.? Time for a real backlash , surely….

68562 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Geraint, 4, #1494 of 1641 🔗

The WHO – I saw them described recently as the World Hell Organisation. That about sums them up.

68603 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 4, #1495 of 1641 🔗

World Death Organisation.

68757 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Cheezilla, #1496 of 1641 🔗

WORLD BASTARD ORGANISATION

68564 watashi, replying to watashi, 2, #1497 of 1641 🔗

Yesterday, someone posted a picture of anti mask poster they had seen in Brighton(?)
Does anyone have an image of it please? I can`t find the comment.

68572 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to watashi, 1, #1498 of 1641 🔗

Think it was Lewes (? spelling). I saved the image and will try and find it and post link.

68645 ▶▶▶ watashi, replying to Gillian, #1500 of 1641 🔗

Many thanks Gillian!

68567 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 32, #1501 of 1641 🔗

Thank you very much to all who replied to my post of earlier today. Feeling much better after reading all your replies. When I have a mental wobble about all this, it is always so much worse in the morning and gets better as the day progresses, and so it is today. I have been greatly helped and supported by this online community. Too much helpful content in the replies to absorb in such a short period of time, so I will print out to read and re-read as needed. Thanks again.

68755 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Gillian, #1502 of 1641 🔗

YAY!

68590 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #1503 of 1641 🔗

Maybe this is Boris’ plan to escape his certain fate.

Declare a scary second wave… it doesn’t happen… because we had masks… which were his idea… he’s a hero!

68594 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #1504 of 1641 🔗

Except Spains ”second wave” occurred after masks made mandatory pretty much everywhere…..

68637 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Major Panic, 6, #1505 of 1641 🔗

Everything is being driven by conclusion bias: Masks work because Asians wear them and they did better than us, so we should wear them, too.
Then it’s just necessary to ignore anything that contradicts this.

68654 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #1506 of 1641 🔗

Asians from the far east have, as Prince Phillip put it, slanty eyes. They also eat a lot of soy sauce. The same logic applies. They did better than us so we should all put soy sauce on our cornflakes and pull our eyelids