Last updated2020-07-29T21:44:42



68801 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 40, #1 of 694 🔗

Meanwhile… in a country that used science, as opposed to “the science:”

“That Sweden has come down to these levels is very promising,” state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell told reporters in Stockholm on Tuesday.

“With numbers diminishing very quickly in Sweden, we see no point in wearing a face mask in Sweden, not even on public transport,” he said.


68929 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to IMoz, 10, #2 of 694 🔗

Logic, common sense, an appreciation for actual facts & real world experience.

It makes me so depressed to this how far we have to go to even get close to that level of competency, similar to the scale of job Arteta has on his hands at Arsenal.

69353 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Mark II, 2, #3 of 694 🔗

As an Arsenal fan I concur 😂 🤣

69356 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Mark II, 1, #4 of 694 🔗

Yes good reference there, made this here Gooner smile

69357 ▶▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Mark II, 1, #5 of 694 🔗

Well, after we beat CFC in a few days, we’ll have closed the competency gap! What possibly could go wrong? 🙂

69386 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to HaylingDave, 2, #6 of 694 🔗

As a kopite, I’d just like to say it’s nice to have you middle-of-the-table types posting here. 🙂

69379 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mark II, 1, #7 of 694 🔗

Glad to see a few fellow gooners are on here adding to our misery haha

68805 Bumble, replying to Bumble, 59, #8 of 694 🔗

That moron Johnson is telling us to walk more. Before his stupid lockdown I used to walk 25 miles a week on a couple of group walks. I got fit and met my friends and it improves mental health as well. Group walks are still suspended even now, despite the fact that social distancing in the countryside is very easy (even if unnecessary). The reason is that we should still limit contact as much as possible. However, I can go to the pub or shopping or the cinema or gym. There is no logic to any of this.

68806 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bumble, 19, #9 of 694 🔗

I used to walk to work at 4 miles a day. It also made for a good means of clearing my mind and separating the job from my home.

68811 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bumble, 4, #10 of 694 🔗

One of the biggest improvements for peoples health as a lot of people don’t take exercise would be to provide funding for standing desks, so that people weren’t so sedentary during working hours. Then they’ve got the option of standing and sitting to work.

69208 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, 4, #11 of 694 🔗

More taxes, more Nanny State interference in our lives.

68813 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Bumble, 56, #12 of 694 🔗

Remember at the start of lockdown:
Johnson effectively locked people in their homes, only permitted to leave their homes for 1 hour per day to do exercise, people who used their small front gardens visited by police and told them not acceptable, all parks closed, all playgrounds closed, care homes still under draconian lockdown measures.
Please give us a break from all this nonsense and find a clever plan to get the economy going. Tip: remove all the ridiculous distancing measures and masks

68825 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Victoria, 16, #13 of 694 🔗

The one hour limit was the result of an off-the-cuff comment by Michael Gove. I ignored it. I try to walk between five and eight miles a day.

68829 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to MDH, 4, #14 of 694 🔗

I cant walk much at all I’ve now damaged my heel!

68913 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue D, replying to Bella Donna, #15 of 694 🔗

I’m in the same place as you – except it’s the ball of my foot I’ve damaged. Happened just as lockdown came in and so frustrating as I’ve really want to get out and about more,because of the lockdown. If that makes sense!

69211 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Bella Donna, #16 of 694 🔗

Buy a scooter?

69378 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to richard riewer, #17 of 694 🔗

Hop ?

69485 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JohnB, #18 of 694 🔗

Pogo stick.

68834 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to MDH, 26, #19 of 694 🔗

First week of Lockdown – my step-daughter and I took an epic 7-hour walk to the highest point in the area so we could get a glimpse of the sea on the horizon. Not a soul in sight. Highly illegal at the time. In fact it feels strange now, not breaking the law on a daily basis.

68866 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #20 of 694 🔗

Unlawful perhaps, but never illegal. I’m not entirely clear on the distinction, though another reader may be, but I think ‘unlawful’ pertains more to government whims than anything else and so is nothing much worth bothering about, while ‘illegal’ relates to actual criminal acts.

68999 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #21 of 694 🔗

They didn’t want us to do it, either way :o))

69011 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #22 of 694 🔗

You have the concept about distinction. But vice versa.

Crime – basic right and wrongs – simple universal – not tricksy.

Illegal – paperwork – policies statues – human contrived.

69020 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Basics, 1, #23 of 694 🔗

What then of ‘unlawful’? There is definitely a difference between that and ‘illegal’, with ‘illegal’ pertaining to murder or theft for instance. Even if it is merely lawyer’s quibbles.

69028 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #24 of 694 🔗

Illegal means the law expressly forbids it. Unlawful means it’s not allowed under the law because no law expressly allows it.

69070 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to matt, 3, #25 of 694 🔗

The concept of unlawful does not properly exist in UK law then, as that is an aspect of the Code Napoléon is it not? In UK law and derived systems nothing is not permitted unless a law specifically says it is not permitted. Does it not mean that something being called merely unlawful can be ignored?

69080 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 5, #26 of 694 🔗

It’s… complicated. You’re basically right – there’s nothing illegal about acting unlawfully in this country (I believe that under a civil code, ‘unlawful’ is less of a real concept). It might help to think of it in this way: You might have acted against the spirit of the law, but kept to the letter of the law and so your actions are unlawful, but not necessarily illegal.

There remains a possibility that, in acting unlawfully you have also acted illegally.

Either way, you can’t be done for unlawful.

69084 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to matt, 1, #27 of 694 🔗

I’m well aware it’s complicated, that’s why I asked 😉 I’m a bit of a jack of all trades but law is something I am little familiar with beyond basics, so I thank you for the elaboration.

Police being punitive against ‘unlawful’ are thus themselves committing questionable acts are they not (whether illegal or unlawful or otherwise)?

69051 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #28 of 694 🔗


Murder is unlawful. Is it illegal? I don’t think so. Murder being a natural wrong.

Building without regulation standard – illegal it is against a contrived rule. This is also called unlawful refering to statute law. I would suggest illegal is more accurate.

Common law is law rights and wrongs we know within us.

Statute law comes from maritime law as strange as that may be. Dock(!) Often you can cross a statue law without knowing. Like, frinstance, not wearing a mask.

69077 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Basics, #29 of 694 🔗

I obviously see things the reverse way to you. ‘Unlawful’ is not a term I would really ever use, hence my confusion. You seem to equate ‘unlawful’ to ‘wrong’ or ‘unjust’ where I would see both it and ‘illegal’ as coming from lawyers’ prattle, but ‘illegal’ is applied by legal types to such natural wrongs, not ‘unlawful’. See also my response to matt above.

69119 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 2, #30 of 694 🔗

I agree with legal being lawyers prattle and ‘law’ being innate/natural within us.

Legal Law
Universal Law
Common Law

All result with a term unlawful.

Legal – contived aka prattle (good word!)
Law – common law

A good way to look at things is what a Police Constable can do and what a Police Office can do – the two are not the same.

Officer – legal.
Constable – common law.

There’s no Napoleon within British Law. The Magna Carta, the Bill of Rights and the Scottish Claim of rights form the basis of laws of the land.

Maritime law has the language legalese associated e.g. ‘Understand’ commonly means one thing to us but within legalese it means Stand Under (a statue or act) to be in agreement with. Sly.

The root of the two systems and complexities are best shown by the completely unbelievable fact that your birth certificate is not your property it is crown copyright. Your legal name is just that – and that is what legal law operates on. You the human is seperate to your legal name.

70079 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Basics, #31 of 694 🔗
69439 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #32 of 694 🔗

johnsons proroguing of Parliament was deemed Unlawful, no meaning in law, therefore Parliament was not prorogued so immediately resumed the sitting as though johnson had done nothing.

The remainers in their willful ignorance conflated this with illegal ie criminal, nothing of the sort.

69436 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #33 of 694 🔗

An example of unlawful is 30mph signs on a road with no street lights.
Councils may only impose 30mph limits in an urban environment and that is defined by having said lighting. The signs thus have no meaning in law = unlawfull but not illegal.

68991 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, #34 of 694 🔗

Cadair Berwyn? Or Moel-y-Gamelin?

68845 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to MDH, 10, #35 of 694 🔗

It was never law, at least not in England. Neither was there ever a once-a-day law, or any law regarding distancing.

68827 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bumble, 9, #36 of 694 🔗

…says a man who probably travels 99% of the time in a ministerial car that he does not even need to drive himself!

68831 ▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Bumble, 23, #37 of 694 🔗

I volunteer for a local wildlife trust. Every Tuesday out in the fresh air doing stuff like clearing invasive species, coppicing, tidying up local parish leisure areas etc. All with like-minded people of “a certain age” in excellent health – both mental and physical. This ended in March and none of it has restarted. We had a safetyism-heavy letter from a director about 2 months ago telling us no imminent return and since then not a peep from the trust management. Meanwhile we find other ways to occupy ourselves outdoors and I suspect that when the call comes to return it will be so overladen with “safety” measures that most of us won’t bother. Such is coronapanic.

69222 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to LGDTLK, 3, #38 of 694 🔗

I walk with various Ramblers groups but walking is pre booked in groups of max 6. In normal times we sometimes had 20 plus on a walk so it is very restricted. Obviously I can and do walk on my own but not allowing unrestricted group walking is madness. Rather like your wildlife trust work I suspect many will not bother in future.

69323 ▶▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to Bumble, 3, #39 of 694 🔗

And walk leaders, of which I’m one, are to be required to complete a risk assessment for each walk, recce it the day before the walk, and take a list of names. Also run the booking system and try to make sure everybody gets a chance for a walk every now and again. There used to be 15 or so, many old, including some over 80’s, walking 7 or 8 miles every week. Some have found they can walk informally in smaller groups with none of the nonsense and this will likely continue – charities like Ramblers will possibly not survive if their demands on their volunteers are too onerous. We also always used to have tea, cake and chat afterwards but where can you do that nowadays in a group of 15 or so? This has destroyed the health, social life and raison d’être of many older walkers, many are stressed and depressed and we’re having to almost be their social workers to make sure they don’t go under.

69527 ▶▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to TJS123, 1, #40 of 694 🔗

These are all just guidelines. Nothing forcing you to do any of this.


This link applies to all groups

70016 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to LGDTLK, #41 of 694 🔗

The mask nonsense came in on Thursday evening, and on Friday morning, the shops were almost deserted. Only absolutely essential shopping being done. People were showing their disapproval by simply not going out unless completely necessary. A quick trawl of my favourite fora showed that people were mostly saying that they were going to order online as much as possible, so the businesses that were just starting up again will all be in dire straits – again. Probably by design.

68873 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bumble, 24, #42 of 694 🔗

I already walk quite a lot Boris due to your stupid ffing mask on public transport rule

68912 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bumble, 3, #43 of 694 🔗

Bloody hypocrite. I challenge him to walk from where I live – NW London to Number 10. See how he likes it.

69018 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #44 of 694 🔗

He did genuinely used to cycle quite a lot – I saw him fairly often on his bike. Doubt he does any more. He was somewhat hazardous – on his phone, not paying much attention to zebra crossings etc. He once came to the rescue of some poor person who was being harrassed by feral thugs – on the route he cycled, this was quite common – and chased them off. Possibly one of the last honourable things he did.

69129 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 1, #45 of 694 🔗

He did use to take the underground as well. An acquaintance of mine sat next to him once and she was tempted to lend him her brush as his hair was so disheveled.

69160 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #46 of 694 🔗

I don’t get his tousled hair look – in photos of the younger Boris, his hair was normal, ie combed and tidy. If he thinks the unkempt look makes him more like one of the ‘plebs’ and thus more approachable (ie less of a toff), he needs his eyes tested! Not combing your hair only makes you look like a tramp..

69223 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #47 of 694 🔗

Me neither. Its really odd and makes you wonder what he’s aiming for with the touseled hair looks. I don’t think its to make him one of us, people tend to take pride in their appearance even if they don’t have much money so Lord knows why he can’t be bothered to comb his hair.

69446 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #48 of 694 🔗

Start from Alexandra Palace, walk down to Priory Park in Hornsey, through the cricket grounds into Queens Wood, over to Highgate and Hampstead Heath, across Regents Park and almost there.
Surprisingly green is London.

69454 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #49 of 694 🔗

This was to your bloody hypocrite post.

68978 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bumble, 2, #50 of 694 🔗

And McDonald’s drive-thru was one of the first places to re-open of course, people were queueing for hours in their cars to get their Big Mac and fries…

69014 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #51 of 694 🔗

Here’s some logic.

Covid related salad dodging hasn’t been addressed north of Hadrians Wall. I believe it might be a diplomatic dance too far for even sturgeon. To get her, lets be honest, ‘largish’ cult followers to slim. Being quite factual a liberal amount of anti chafe vaseline will be required before Scotland loses weight.

69026 ▶▶ Fiat, replying to Bumble, 3, #52 of 694 🔗

A relative used to swim competitively in a club. 6 sessions a week. Fit, toned, a picture of health. Since March, nothing. I need say no more. When he starts again, it’ll be a huge struggle…..

69061 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bumble, 2, #53 of 694 🔗

It’s not about a virus and the policies aren’t based on sense or science.
Since lockdown I have been cycling 15 miles nearly every day

69068 ▶▶ Mrs Two-Six, replying to Bumble, 7, #54 of 694 🔗

I walk loads and enjoy this activity but it is now one that is marred by people who prefer to socially distance into bushes or into a road in their bid to avoid me at all costs. Or they stop and wait for me to walk past??? Why?! And then look at me expecting a, I don’t know, thank you?! It is still happening ..argh

69204 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Bumble, 1, #55 of 694 🔗

Is Boris taking his own advice?
It would improve his figger, his face, and even his coif.
Very unhealthy looking fellow.

69220 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to Jane, #56 of 694 🔗

I rather suspect he is a born again evangelical exerciser. Lecturing those of us who have always done exercise and tried to live healthily.

69402 ▶▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to Bumble, #57 of 694 🔗

Like most things in his life these days, it’s everything to do with following orders from the missus

69525 ▶▶ steve, replying to Bumble, #58 of 694 🔗

Hi Bumble, the antisocial distancing are just guidelines. You are free to ignore them



Brass bands, orchestras and every other large group of 30 or more people are still unable to get together to rehearse.


Brass bands and orchestras can now rehearse in England. Gatherings of up to 30 people, including musicians, are allowed anywhere in England unless there is a specific prohibition. Under the new law in place from 4th July 2020, those prohibitions include (read through these quickly then come back again):

private dwellings (reg. 5(1))
public outdoor places which are not operated by (or part of premises used for operation of) a business, a charitable, benevolent or philanthropic institution or a public body as a visitor attraction, (reg. 5(1) and reg. 5(2))
raves indoors (reg. 5(4))
Exceptions to the above are made, broadly, for gatherings

for elite sportspersons
necessary for work, charitable purposes, education and childcare
reasonably necessary for purposes of education or training
in such public outdoor places where both (a) a written health and safety risk assessment has been undertaken and (b) all reasonable measures have been taken to limit the risk of transmission of the coronavirus taking account of government guidance*

68808 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 27, #59 of 694 🔗

So true Toby

“Why apply a higher standard to doctors promoting hydroxychloroquine than to those promoting masks? If Twitter, Facebook and YouTube are going to ban anyone from touting the benefits of hydroxychloroquine on the grounds that there’s no definitive “proof” that it’s effective, shouldn’t they also ban anyone from touting the benefits of non-surgical masks?”

68893 ▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to Victoria, #60 of 694 🔗

There is unfortunately a specific problem here. You cannot make any claim that a drug works unless you have (a) evidence that it does (b) for most non-grandfathered claims, the agreement of a regulatory body that your evidence is sufficient and that benefit outweighs risk.

That principle, like it or not, does not apply to face masks, lockdowns, or even a lot of medical treatments like surgery. It’s because hydroxychloroquine is a pharmaceutical agent and they are regulated that way. So statements about it are going to be subject to more risk-aversive scrutiny.

I was horrified when trials were stopped on the basis of obviously shoddy data. The only way to know is to conduct and complete an adequately-designed trial. I say that as a (current) HCQ-skeptic. Show me it works and I will change my mind.

Source/conflict of interest statement: I work at the interface between pharma companies and the regulators.

68809 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 9, #61 of 694 🔗

Love the LS Mask Exempt cards. Much better than all the other ones available.

68839 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, 7, #62 of 694 🔗

i do however prefer white backgrounds as it uses less ink to print

68812 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 31, #64 of 694 🔗

The social media companies are platforms, which is why they are not liable to libel suits. However, every time they censor someone, they are implicitly asserting that they are publishers, which makes them liable for all the content on their sites. They should be made to choose: either they are platforms, and therefore can no more censor than a telephone company, or they are publishers and are free to censor.

68830 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Steve Hayes, 8, #65 of 694 🔗

You might be aware that BigTech is about to appear before the Democrat-controlled House of Representatives at 12 ET. This is relevant, as antitrust is likely the way to resolve this. The problem has been brewing for some time in the US – the dominant Chicago School paradigm of antitrust law and economics does not recognise what are known as portfolio or network effects, meaning they have come to dominate the space, and some would argue, stifle innovation and entrepreneurship. If their platforms are broken up, they would then fall under scrutiny in your second category, I think. If you are interested, Google Lina Khan (Yale Law School) and Amazon’s Antitrust Paradox – free to view, and an excellent read – she is now advising one of the Federal Trade Commission commissioners. Also see the book by Scott Galloway at NYU Stern School of Business (he is a professor of marketing), ‘ The Hidden DNA of Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google’

68902 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #66 of 694 🔗

The problem is that the leading Democrat criticism is that they do not censor enough.

Democrats and Labour voters don’t deserve freedom of speech because they openly believe in censorship of dissent. There are of course some people on the right who do also, but these days the impetus comes primarily from the politically and socially dominant left. It’s not anti-white racists like BLM who are censored and hounded, it’s people protesting eg against racist murder of whites in South Africa like Katie Hopkins

68877 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Steve Hayes, 7, #67 of 694 🔗

They should no longer be given that option. They’ve clearly decided to be publishers, and to interfere in the U.S. election.
Time to fine them, remove their protection from being sued, and punish them for their political interference.

68890 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Lms23, 9, #68 of 694 🔗

If they were made legally liable for their content, they would very quickly find their business models were unsustainable.

68896 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Lms23, 7, #69 of 694 🔗

Exactly. They’ve made their political leanings clear. In fact they went political years ago as soon as they gave in to the “hate speech” nonsense, but they got away with that because they were only suppressing fringe dissent. Now they’ve stepped more or less directly into the political fray in the US especially on the side of the Democrats and of coronapanic, so hopefully they will be dealt with appropriately.

We do need actual platforms, but they need to be genuinely free from political censorship. Including censorship of “hate speech”, which absolutely is political censorship.

68814 Biker, replying to Biker, 24, #70 of 694 🔗

The censorship by Google and Facebook are all part of the one world one story all fall in line with the same bullshit. Google is unusable and and you’ve got to have a hole in your brain if you use facebook, same with watching the the BBC. We can now see the evil bastards that rule over the majority of people no bother at all. Their lies are so open it’s hard to believe that your leftie arsehole can’t see it. Fuck these people they are a danger to humanity. I keep saying but civil war is inevitable. Any time a new frontier opens up there will be a war and all these tech firms want is to shut down any chance of competition. They are pure evil.

68826 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Biker, 1, #71 of 694 🔗

I detest Google if only there was an alternative!

68837 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Bella Donna, 23, #72 of 694 🔗

There is …try DuckDuckGo!

68850 ▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Humanity First, 1, #73 of 694 🔗

I’ve heard of it thanks. I’ll give it a go.

68858 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #74 of 694 🔗

It’s okay, but not necessarily on all searches. Google is still better on a lot of mundane stuff.

If you use firefox, the search box in the top corner will have a dropdown by the magnifying glass (you’ll have to mouse over it) and it will give you a list of search engines you can use for the search. It’s customisable, too.

68887 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Cicatriz, #75 of 694 🔗

I used to use Firefox then changed to Opera but both use Google as the browser.

68897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #76 of 694 🔗

Firefox defaults to google, but it can be changed via the mechanism that I mentioned.
I’ve not used Opera for a while, but it wouldn’t surprise me if that was the same.

68945 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cicatriz, #77 of 694 🔗

Opera has a v. useful built in VPN, useful for finding torrents etc. Set it and forget it.

69289 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cicatriz, #78 of 694 🔗

I use Firefox because everything about it can be customised.
For most things though I actually use the Firefox ‘lite’ or whatever it is that basically just deletes everytihng you just did as soon as you exit it.

69062 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bella Donna, #79 of 694 🔗

You can choose your default browser with firefox.

68927 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #80 of 694 🔗

Seven Steps to Online Privacy

Google — A Dictator Unlike Anything the World Has Ever Known

  1. Google’s Powers Pose Serious Threats to Society
  2. How Google Can Shift Your Perception Without Your Knowledge
  3. Simple Trick Effectively Masks Search Bias
  4. Google May Have Shifted Millions of Votes in 2016 Elections
  5. Google Has the Power to Determine 25% of Global Elections
  6. A Dictator Unlike Anything the World Has Ever Known
  7. The Influence of Search Suggestions
  8. YouTube’s Up Next Algorithm
  9. The Creepy Line
  10. Google Runs a Total Surveillance State
  11. How Google Tracks You Even When You’re Offline


68871 ▶▶▶▶▶ PAUL TURNBULL, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #81 of 694 🔗

yes definitely duck duck go which doesnt track you, but i do find its searches arent quite as good as google so i use google as last resort

68970 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Humanity First, #82 of 694 🔗

The searches are terrible though, with too many USA results in them.

69058 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #83 of 694 🔗

Try typing UK at the end of your query

69056 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Humanity First, #84 of 694 🔗

I did. It gave only a fraction of the results from google. I suppose it depends what you’re searching for.
Bing is absolutely rubbish.

68846 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bella Donna, 3, #85 of 694 🔗

Yandex search:


It’s Russian, but appears every bit as good as Google.

68851 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #86 of 694 🔗

Dogpile is good. It colltes lots of other search engines.
DuckDuckGo is still fairly decent but has been fucked with search algorithm wise (I think they have a similar way of ordering the results as google)

68852 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bella Donna, 1, #87 of 694 🔗

Tor browser

68869 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bella Donna, 7, #88 of 694 🔗

For email give Proton Mail a try protonmail.com

68916 ▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Dave #KBF, #89 of 694 🔗

Yes Swiss encrypted not like Gmail that keep all your emails on server

68936 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #90 of 694 🔗

Vpn by proton too. Excellent and free.

69029 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Bella Donna, #91 of 694 🔗

I would love to know if it is possible to buy a smart phone without requiring google.

69048 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Basics, 1, #92 of 694 🔗

Apple phones probably don’t have much Google software. Idk if you can trust Apple any more but at least you pay them making you a customer. With Android you’re the product. You can also install GNU/Linux on a phone for full freedom but it will probably be quite a hassle.

69131 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to guy153, #93 of 694 🔗

Thanks. Thats a good help to my understanding. Apple finger print is out for me, but perhaps worth looking into. At least theres a possible way in linux. Google is exceptionally intrusive.

69176 ▶▶▶ Wesley, replying to Bella Donna, #94 of 694 🔗

Startpage is great.

69448 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella Donna, #95 of 694 🔗

Google always puts Conservative Woman at the bottom of my recent searches list so likely to disappear on my next search but I am wise to their slimey tricks.

68828 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Biker, 4, #96 of 694 🔗

‘Civil war is inevitable’ At least we’ll be able to identify the enemy, they’ll all be wearing muzzles….

69214 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to T. Prince, #97 of 694 🔗

And you will be able to easily see the whites of their eyes.

68885 ▶▶ alw, replying to Biker, #98 of 694 🔗

Twitter somewhat late in the day have removed Wiley’s account.

68964 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to alw, #99 of 694 🔗

The Free Speech Union are backing Wiley aren’t they?

69031 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, 2, #100 of 694 🔗

Anti trust hearing is being heard in US right now live on BBC and Sky.
Amazon Google Face and apple

68819 James Gittings, #101 of 694 🔗

Petition to repeal mask mandate in shops past 22,000. Please sign if you haven’t already

68821 Wickwar Bob, replying to Wickwar Bob, 15, #102 of 694 🔗

I was quite encouraged by the comments BTL of Ross Clark’s Telegraph article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/28/panic-rising-covid-19-case-numbers-irrational-dangerous/ .

There were a few comments by zealots of course, but they are looking increasingly ludicrous and indefensible now in the face of the evidence. I know this is by no means a represenative example of the population (and those poll results flagged by Toby are really frightening), but maybe the tide of opinion is beginning to turn? Hope so, because I need to feel some optimism.

68832 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Wickwar Bob, 1, #103 of 694 🔗


68880 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Wickwar Bob, 2, #104 of 694 🔗

Polls say only whatever the vested interests commissioning them want them to – the true art to being a pollster is to make the results believable and nothing more. Such is my theory for what it’s worth.

68889 ▶▶ annie, replying to Wickwar Bob, 7, #105 of 694 🔗

Shouldn’t be frightened, most of the population have no idea what ‘per cent’ means, no idea if what the population size is, no idea what they are talking about, it’s duckspeak.

68823 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 38, #106 of 694 🔗

Clearly this fkin government doesn’t give a flying fcuk. It would have been better had Boris died in a ditch! And yes I do mean it!

Reading that email from someone trying to book a doctors appointment to just hearing my mother in law can now receive visitors but only one designated person, no one else and for just 1/2 hour. Yes that’s what this fkin fascist government has dictated.

Apologies if my bad language offends I’m too fckin angry!

68841 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #107 of 694 🔗

Is the half hour rule imposed by a care home?

68843 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Julian, 3, #108 of 694 🔗

My brother in law thinks its government diktat he’s forwarding the email so I’ll let you know.

68860 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #109 of 694 🔗

It’s probably guidance, as usual subtly insinuated to be law

68909 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #110 of 694 🔗

It’s unlawful to prevent you seeing your relative. I’d get on to the social worker about it.

69194 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #111 of 694 🔗

Or a solicitor!

69315 ▶▶▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #112 of 694 🔗

My sympathies Bella. Having the same experience up in Scotland. 88 year old mother-in-law has been in hospital for 4 weeks. Only allowed one nominated person (me). She was very poorly last week (has since rallied) but I asked if my husband (her only child) could get in to see her. The short answer was ‘no, Nicola says….we are only following Scot Gvt advice’. It’s madness.

69348 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, 2, #113 of 694 🔗

A truly evil, made-up diktat. Demonic.

70255 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Cambridge N, #114 of 694 🔗

Personally, I would call it that; demonic in a literal sense

70252 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #115 of 694 🔗

Advice. Not law. I know what I would do…

68824 Kelly deacons, replying to Kelly deacons, 38, #116 of 694 🔗

2nd trip to Asda.Last Friday I was the only bare face.Today,footfall again noticeably down,…..a good ten bare faces, 4 workers,6 shoppers…..no trouble at all!spread the word.

68882 ▶▶ alw, replying to Kelly deacons, 19, #117 of 694 🔗

Went to the local butcher today here in London. None of the three customers were wearing masks. The staff had Perspex masks.

69155 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to alw, 1, #118 of 694 🔗

I can’t see why businesses are making their workers wear masks – why aren’t visors sufficient? Less harmful to the wearer’s health and still give some protection in the event of a customer unexpectedly sneezing or coughing..

69196 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #119 of 694 🔗

The Karens complained that if the customers had to it was illogical if the staff didn’t. As you can imagine, Wankock’s answer didn’t exactly clarify things.

69200 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #120 of 694 🔗

We have visors at work which are much better. Unfortunately I still can’t wear them so my managers have transferred me to positions where you don’t need them. They have been excellent in dealing with my condition.

68833 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 15, #121 of 694 🔗

This is actually a good thing:


Here’s the start of the article (paywall):

Shopworkers’ refusal to wear masks is causing “conflict at the cash register” and sparking hundreds of complaints, a new survey shows.

While members of the public who visit supermarkets, banks and clothing stores must wear a face covering, the people who work in those venues do not.

This split has caused anger amongst shoppers, who have made more than 350 complaints to companies, mainly about staff not being masked and the failure of retailers to enforce social distancing.

If all the shop workers are forced to wear the uncomfortable nappy, they will hopefully lobby their management, who may complain to the government, who may just see the futility of the whole thing, for everyone.

68838 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 5, #122 of 694 🔗

It could go that way, or businesses will voluntarily or under duress make their staff wear masks whenever they are “in public”.

69089 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Julian, #123 of 694 🔗

It has gone this way at Heathrow Airport. In theory, staff are supposed to wear face coverings in all public areas of the airport.

69210 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #124 of 694 🔗

That’s what Aldi decided. Cashiers behind perspex are exempt. Aldi staff multi-task, so hopefully won’t be on the shop floor all day.

68840 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Tenchy, 16, #125 of 694 🔗

I couldn’t possibly insist shop workers wear masks, to wear them all day every day isnt feasible and thoroughly injurious to their health.

68864 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #126 of 694 🔗

Some shops and other businesses already do insist their staff wear masks, all day every day, while customer facing.

68849 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, 8, #127 of 694 🔗

We could see the first WARRANTED strike in quite a while!

68924 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Tenchy, #128 of 694 🔗

LOL – 350? How can they measure this?

69451 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tom Blackburn, #129 of 694 🔗

Good point, made it up journalism.

68941 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tenchy, 4, #130 of 694 🔗

Unfortunately, the easiest way for Gov (or shop mgmt) to settle any dissent is to make them mandatory for all. Cos they’re all bastards.

68990 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #131 of 694 🔗

I suspect mandatory mask wearing at work would be illegal under discrimination legislation.

69013 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Will, 1, #132 of 694 🔗

Unless they waive it,during ‘the emergency period’. Woudn’t trust em as far as I could spit em, with my mask on.

69456 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Will, #133 of 694 🔗

They have done it to the nurses

69201 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, #134 of 694 🔗

Bastard wimps!

69205 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 2, #135 of 694 🔗

Better if we customers write and say it’s cruel and unhealthy and we’ll shop at other stores that care properly for their staff ……

69459 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tenchy, #136 of 694 🔗

It’s the same ‘logic’ that forced the construction trade into lockdown which the gumment never intended. Too many complaints “if I’ve got to stay home how come builders don’t !?!”

68835 TPFR, #137 of 694 🔗

Thank you for everything you are doing. Much more useful than a list of businesses that have reopened (most of them, apparently) would be a list of businesses that are ignoring these dreadful mask rules. I’d be very happy to give them some of my money.

68836 Chris Hume, 24, #138 of 694 🔗

Been out and about in Billericay earlier, and can report that I hardly saw anybody in face coverings. Went into the BP filling station and shop.No one on the forecourt wearing. Inside some old guy had what looked like a dishcloth he was holding to his mouth, one young couple where female was unmasked and male was, but only around his neck. Three other customers were masked. Two ladies serving, one masked, one unmasked. I was beckoned over by the masked one. I smiled at her and she was extremely pleasant. She had to remove her (quite heavy duty looking) mask to ask me a question and I could see she was smiling. My local convenience store and off licence both seem to be making a point by being overtly friendly to non-maskers, and none of their staff ever wear them. . Am I being too optimistic, or is this falling apart already? PS I went onto Waitrose on Sunday. I was the only one un-masked. To my disappointment though, nobody said anything!!

68847 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 19, #139 of 694 🔗

The opinion poll is downright scary. Do people in the UK really believe 7% of the population have died from Covid and 10-15% of the population currently have it? If so, no wonder people are still so fearful (and think masks are necessary).

Even taking into account the effect of fear-propaganda, it really doesn’t say much about the average intelligence and education of the public. Either people think the total UK population is less than a million, or they think that four and a half million people have died (and are either unaware of or disbelieve the official death toll), in which case where are all the dead people?

68898 ▶▶ annie, replying to Drawde927, 14, #140 of 694 🔗

Ask any of them what ‘per cent’ means.They haven’t a clue.
Ask them what the population ofBritain is. Not a clue.
Tell them the figure.
Ask them to calculate 7% of it.
Ha ha ha.

68925 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to annie, 6, #141 of 694 🔗

Nice one, Annie. And a sizeable percentage (!) of them will have degrees.

69233 ▶▶▶ Bumble, replying to annie, 1, #142 of 694 🔗

There are a lot of thick people in the UK

68900 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Drawde927, 5, #143 of 694 🔗

Back in the mists when we were first incarcerated to do our bit to save lives, I avidly followed Worldometers and for me, it did for a while look scary. I am no statistician but I found a formula for calculating exponential growth and put some numbers in my diary as a reference point. According to this on 30th June there should have been 1.5billion cases and 12million deaths worldwide. Needless to say the divergence from these projected figures and reality became apparent fairly quickly. As did the absence of bodies piling up in the streets. 7% of the UK population dead in the space of 5 months, is a hell of a lot of bodies. Roughly 10x the annual average. Where do people think these bodies have gone? I just don’t get it.

69032 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Fed up, 4, #144 of 694 🔗

‘They’ are hiding all those bodies – ‘they’ have all died from this terrible plague. It is coming to get us. That’s why we must hide in our homes, in our masks, in our minds. It beggars belief. I cannot understand how people are thinking this is OK and we are going to be shepherded around at the behest of a deranged lunatic till the financial system sizes up and stops the money circulating. If the economy continues to tank and the physical retail and catering sector just dies, the unemployment rate will be eyewatering, the businesses will shrink again and again – so little tax revenue anywhere and all that universal credit to pay – will the BoE continue to print money or will they stop or will borrowing rates start to really go up? I’m a very simple soul so if there’s anyone here who can draw me some scenario’s I’d be grateful. Do I for example, draw out any notes I might have left and put them under the mattress? Or do I buy some gold sovereigns? We will all be living in much reduced circumstances I imagine? This is simply bonkers.

69044 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Keen Cook, 3, #145 of 694 🔗

You can only depress the economy so far before it enters a “death spiral”, where falling tax receipts fail to cover government spending and debt servicing payments. Which leads to greater shrinkage of the economy and further falls in tax receipts.

The worst case scenario (which is very unlikely btw) is total economic meltdown. Best case scenario (also unlikely the longer this nonsense goes on) is a “V” recovery. Sharp fall, followed by a sharp rise.

Gold is currently at its highest price level ever. If the outlook gets worse, it will climb higher yet, but if the recovery scenario comes true, the price will fall again as investors rush back to shares.


69059 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #146 of 694 🔗

DT today is talking about a “K-shaped” recovery.

“What the hell is that?” you may ask, as I did.

Apparently it’s a recovery where people in employment enjoy an improving standard of living, while those who are unemployed see life getting worse and worse.

So much for ‘leveling up’

69136 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to matt, 3, #147 of 694 🔗

I’m holding out for a lower case ‘g’ shaped recovery.

69343 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, 2, #148 of 694 🔗

Somewhere there’s a roomful (or a teams call full) of economists trying to work out what every letter of the alphabet might mean in terms of a recovery.

69150 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 1, #149 of 694 🔗

See Jeff Taylor’s video on youtube on the K-shaped recovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ1-6P5OEWE

69227 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #150 of 694 🔗

He makes good points very clearly and succinctly. (I also listened at double speed!)

69308 ▶▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Keen Cook, 3, #151 of 694 🔗

Gold/silver for if things get desperate ie the majority loose faith in govt. Shares, despite economic downturn, as big money has to go somewhere and won’t be going into- and thus avoid- bonds/govt debt.

69465 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Keen Cook, 1, #152 of 694 🔗

Simple, I got a Pass ‘0’ Level Economics, when I were a lad I could buy 4 pints for a quid, now it’s 4 quid for 1 pint. The pound in my pocket is now worth 1/16th of what it was.
They will inflate the debt away over a generation.

69217 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Fed up, 3, #153 of 694 🔗

That was always Iannidis’ point re the Gompertz curve. The rise looks exponential to start with but soon levels off. Any epidemiologist/mathematical modeller should have known that.

69262 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Cheezilla, #154 of 694 🔗

It seems to be typical loose/lazy usage of technical terminology anyway, as I doubt very much that growth anywhere (or decline for that matter) has actually been exponential. If it follows the pattern 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 etc (or indeed 32, 16, 8 etc) it is exponential, otherwise it’s nothing of the sort.

69280 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 3, #155 of 694 🔗

I think nobel prize winner Michael Levitt would agree with you. He has been trying to make himself heard for months, telling us that it was never exponential. His interview with Freddie Sayers on Unherd is well worth watching.

69342 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to bluefreddy, 2, #156 of 694 🔗

He doesn’t say it’s never exponential – he says that the exponential growth decays quickly. So the virus will rapidly spread to those who aren’t going to be able to put up a defence and then increasingly struggles as it has fewer potential vitcims.

69460 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Fed up, #157 of 694 🔗

The week and a half spent obsessing about Dom Cummings was to distract us from the exponential growth not happening, the red tops tried it with maddie McCann for a few days but their readers weren’t interested.

68853 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 39, #158 of 694 🔗

People should continue to book holidays but “ need to be aware of the risk that quarantine could be imposed” culture secretary Oliver Dowden said this morning.
”But as long as people are aware of that risk, they should continue to book holidays, but just bear in mind that this may happen and sadly it has happened in Spain,” he told BBC breakfast.

What planet are these people on? Who can afford to pay thousands of pounds for a holiday that could be cancelled at a moment’s notice and then give up a further two weeks of holiday entitlement to be imprisoned at home, most likely without wages?

68854 ▶▶ MDH, replying to Margaret, 15, #159 of 694 🔗

Contemptible. They just have no idea.

68857 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Margaret, 18, #160 of 694 🔗

They don’t live in the real world. And apparently those of us who do are uneducated gammon.

68928 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Margaret, 17, #161 of 694 🔗

To a cynical person it might look as though they were trying to kill off the travel industry. I can’t believe that they can be so f****ng stupid as to think that they can restart the economy AND f*** with people’s lives like this.

68932 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #162 of 694 🔗

Barney, I know ‘we can’t believe it’ but lots of people still do believe this garbage

68943 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #163 of 694 🔗

They want travel to be a luxury, only for the elites..

68959 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 3, #164 of 694 🔗

Added to that Carrie they want to take our right to travel.

It is our world. Each of ours.

69050 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 1, #165 of 694 🔗

They even want to steal our right to travel around the country.

69151 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, #166 of 694 🔗


69175 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #167 of 694 🔗

Local travel seems to be in the sights yes. The commute has been extraordinarily hit already. Yes jams are up as people don’t use public transport. The work from home ideology has been sold like it or not. Its now a fight for how much up take or resistence there will be.

69007 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #168 of 694 🔗

Who, the people who are trying to bribe you to go and eat out, because they made you too frightened to go and eat out? Oh, they can do stupid, alright.

69021 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #169 of 694 🔗

And now sturgeon saying testing won’t work as an alternative to quarantine because testing on day one might miss an incubating covid and testing on day 8 gives no guarantee either. Pretty much verbatim.

Ok… I was going to slur her name and introduce swearing to an otherwise polite internet page. Can you feel me seeth at this jumped up flump.

68931 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Margaret, 8, #170 of 694 🔗

So, work your bottom off all year, putting away a little each week, for that yearly two-week break of actual life instead of existence. Now for a little added thrill you get to gamble all on a holiday these gouls in suits might snatch* from you at whim. Sounds good. Even more added thrill to the gamble if you realise you are soon to be out of a job and things look bleak in the short to long term.

*employer says cannot give you two week quaratine so you cannot go = snatching.

69053 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 3, #171 of 694 🔗

And people then decide, you know what, I think I’ll put the handbrake on at work. In-tray’s on the left there. I’ll get round to it. Maybe.

69473 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, 1, #172 of 694 🔗

Apparently hotel prices in Devon & Cornwall are horrendous so its Skegness for the rest of us.

68935 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Margaret, 16, #173 of 694 🔗

but just bear in mind that this may happen and sadly it has happened in Spain ,”

No, ****, it didn’t “just happen”. You and your scumbag collaborators in Whitehall inflicted it on people, for no good or legitimate reason whatsoever.

Hopefully none of them will forget, or forgive.

68953 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark, 3, #174 of 694 🔗

Sky new ‘news hour’ just throws to a break by saying “coming up, how does the government decide which countries [to cause this quarantine/lockdown scandal] for? We talk to a WHO expert next”.

So government decides when WHO tells them?

69046 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Margaret, 1, #175 of 694 🔗

Clueless. I expect they have no idea of the prices of a litre of milk or a standard loaf of bread either.

69063 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #176 of 694 🔗

Have to be honest, I buy two or three of each of these a week and I’d struggle to tell you how much they are, beyond a rough guess.

69229 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to matt, 3, #177 of 694 🔗

Men! 😉

69350 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #178 of 694 🔗

At least I do the shopping!
(And the cooking, I’ll point out while in defensive mode)

69367 ▶▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Cheezilla, #179 of 694 🔗

Haha I’m guilty too. Don’t have a clue what anything costs

69467 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Margaret, 1, #180 of 694 🔗

It’s so they can effectively force us out of the skies without actually banning us in law thus leaving them free for Greta and all the Special People.

68856 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #181 of 694 🔗

“Vietnam, which had gone 100 days without reporting a case of local transmission of the coronavirus, said on Saturday that a 57-year-old grandfather in the central city of Danang had tested positive. How he got the illness remains a mystery.”
Remember Hope-Simpson’s theory about influenza and seasonal transmission and perhaps the same thing with Sars Cov-2?Follow a few links first a summary of his theory
In fact, his whole book is free to download here
Now it has been produced a nice picture with Covid-19 deaths and compared with influenza and outbreaks depending on latitude
“The embedded flu chart, based on the Hope-Simpson model, uses 0-30 N latitude and 30+ North. For whatever reason, we’re seeing outbreaks in the middle east and southern states that fit under 35 North into the tropical 0-30 region he describes with the flu.” The following link
“Here is a look at some states and middle east countries all in the ~30 N region. See how so many of them are all flaring up in late June or July at about the same time regardless of whether they were hit earlier or not.”
Still speculative but interesting as there are many mysterious things with influenza i.e. hard to explain simultaneous outbreaks at the same latitude and very difficult to explain by travel spread etc. Why not the same with Covid-19?

68868 ▶▶ John B, replying to swedenborg, 1, #182 of 694 🔗

Mystery can be explained by erroneous reporting, or mis-information. Vietnam is a Communist Country, I wouldn’t trust them to tell me the colour of the sky.

68859 David P, #183 of 694 🔗

In his recent article Harvey Risch, Professor of Epidemiology at Yale School of Public Health argued that there is strong evidence for the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine:

“I am usually accustomed to advocating for positions within the mainstream of medicine, so have been flummoxed to find that, in the midst of a crisis, I am fighting for a treatment that the data fully support but which, for reasons having nothing to do with a correct understanding of the science, has been pushed to the sidelines.”

“the medication has become highly politicized. For many, it is viewed as a marker of political identity, on both sides of the political spectrum. Nobody needs me to remind them that this is not how medicine should proceed. We must judge this medication strictly on the science”


68861 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #184 of 694 🔗

Oh no!


I expect all the people on that train will need to self isolate for 14 days. Perhaps even any train spotters standing at the track side as the train hurtled past will also need to quarantine.

69231 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, #185 of 694 🔗

It would make sense if he’d lowered it to speak, then replaced it. He obviously hadn’t been wearing it. They really are aliens!

68862 John B, replying to John B, 7, #186 of 694 🔗

Yes, there’s some evidence that non-surgical masks are effective,’

Effective for what? A barrier to droplets expelled in the breath, but no more so than your hand or handkerchief or a banana skin.

There is no evidence that surgical or non-surgical masks are effective at preventing spread of coronaviruses either as a source barrier, or barrier against being infected.

All evidence is related to barrier against Marge droplets 0,3 micron or larger, but it may not be assumed large droplets are the only vector of spread of the virus.

68867 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to John B, 11, #187 of 694 🔗

Just sneeze into your hands and then wash them. Or sneeze into your elbow and wash your clothes later. And don’t lick things.

Job done.

68899 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, 11, #188 of 694 🔗

Total lickdown.

68918 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 3, #189 of 694 🔗

Trouble is for the sheep – that’s too easy and too logical.

68937 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to John B, 7, #190 of 694 🔗

John Lee was saying something the other day about it. Without proper tests, nobody really knows whether the drops don’t dry out, concentrating the virus in one place, and then the first time you speak you blast concentrated viral particles into the face of the person opposite – and straight through their ‘chicken wire’ mask, obviously. It really could be as counter-intuitive as that: instead of spreading a little bit of virus to someone else who builds up a little bit of immunity as a result, you end up giving them a larger viral load, and a proper infection. (If there was any virus around at the moment, of course).

Edit: that’s what happens when you begin dancing to the other side’s tune. I shouldn’t be arguing about whether masks ‘work’. I oppose them at every level on principle. They are a literal example of totalitarian government. Arguing about whether they work is how you get sidetracked.

68863 Mimi, replying to Mimi, 12, #191 of 694 🔗

India’s death rate is like 19 per million (ifr 0.002%). Mali – MALI!!! – has had 6 deaths per million. The countries where people habitually take HCQ are doing way better than the global north. See: https://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/opinion/this-indian-slum-contained-a-possible-covid-19-disaster-with-hydroxychloroquine?__twitter_impression=true

Dr. Malcolm Kendrick has also sung the praises of HCQ for inhibiting viral infections: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/07/05/distorting-science-in-the-covid-pandemic/

And see the estimable Gummi Bear’s deep dive: https://twitter.com/gummibear737/status/1283840177497088001

HCQ has been used by billions for the past 50 years. IDK if it’s a “cure” for COVID, and quite likely some doses of it are indeed dangerous, as is the case with all drugs – but for goodness sake, can’t we at least discuss it? It certainly appears to have some promise. If it’s truly dangerous, then responsible research would bear that out, but even if it is, there’s no reason to suppress mentioning the very word. Suppression makes it look like there are people who don’t want us to know something.

68870 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Mimi, 13, #192 of 694 🔗

If HCQ was so dangerous, it wouldn’t be used for malaria or lupus, etc. The fact that they’re trying to claim that it’s dangerous shows more than anything that they’re lying.

68874 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Lms23, 13, #193 of 694 🔗

If it was so dangerous it wouldn’t be on the WHO’s list of essential drugs (where it has been since the WHO has had such a list).

68950 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Lms23, 10, #194 of 694 🔗

65 years of deadly usage, it’s amazing it’s still around

68878 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mimi, 5, #195 of 694 🔗

I didn’t see on BBC the picture of Bolsonaro coming out after his bout with Covid-19 smiling showing the crowd his HCQ package

68879 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Mimi, 3, #196 of 694 🔗

Are you aware of the HCQ trial in the UK which used a known potentially lethal dosage to prove it was ineffective?

68947 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #197 of 694 🔗

..and also did not use the suggested additions of zinc and azithromycin..

68967 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mimi, 4, #198 of 694 🔗

Worth repeating – MALI!!!

The NHS are not comparable to – MALI!!!

Well done MALI!!!

69234 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #199 of 694 🔗

Point was taken but worth making again!

68872 DoesDimSyniad, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 16, #200 of 694 🔗

I can understand the desire by some to have something ready to hand indicating an exemption to face coverings, but given that there is no requirement to have such, and that it all smacks just a bit too much of yellow stars and pink, black or red triangles, I cannot support the notion myself.

68904 ▶▶ annie, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #201 of 694 🔗

Mae’n syniad da i bobl sy ac ofn arnyn nhw o gael eu herlid gan y zombis!

69045 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to annie, #202 of 694 🔗

Digon teg, but perhaps we should punch them in the nose if they try, as there need to be consequences for such disgusting breaches of decency.

69060 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 2, #203 of 694 🔗

I’ve been walking in and out of places without a lanyard (or a mask). In England, as well as at home where it isn’t an issue. Yet.

68875 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 17, #204 of 694 🔗

 “Ruined and torn by civil war, Afghanistan has barely any healthcare system left. A brief lockdown was lifted as the nation had to choose between hunger and COVID-19. It braced for the worst, but then the unexpected happened: the pandemic burnt out. Herd immunity

68930 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to swedenborg, 11, #205 of 694 🔗

This disease is prolonged by constant publicity. Afghanistan obviously couldn’t be bothered to do the PR so poor Covy died.

68971 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #206 of 694 🔗

Theres the CIA crop to get in, no time to covid!

69065 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #207 of 694 🔗

Felt neglected so wandered off to Downing Street instead.

69064 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 1, #208 of 694 🔗

Sweden too from the looks of things. Just without the civil war first.

68876 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 20, #209 of 694 🔗
  1. Social media has no qualifications to delete that message, as it comes from certified doctors. Even if they claim that some other group of doctors are saying that the video is wrong, they still have no qualifications to determine which group of doctors is correct. In other words, by taking action, social media is dispensing medical advice, and they have no right or warrant to do such a thing
  2. If HCQ was not a political topic, then they wouldn’t have suppressed it to begin with. They would have trialed it and made an official report on it, rather than completely suppress it without evidence. Their actions indicate that they are suppressing it for political purposes, not for medical purposes, and that makes them bad faith actors, and are not to be trusted.
  3. Don’t listen to them when they say: “it’s dangerous, it can lead to injury or death if used improperly”. It’s an incredibly vague statement. Even a pencil can lead to injury or death if used improperly, but i don’t see anyone banning them. When someone says that, ask them on specific doses. What dose is dangerous? What dose is lethal? What’s the dose for malaria? What’s the dose for covid? They will probably not answer.
68888 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 9, #210 of 694 🔗

Note, The Lancet was forced into a very embarrassing climb-down on the attached spoiling paper when it was discovered that one of the co-authors was supposedly an ‘adult model’ and another was a ‘science fiction author’


68905 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #211 of 694 🔗

Also note that the backpedalling was not given nearly the same coverage as the original publication.

68923 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #212 of 694 🔗

Also note business as usual. Normal normal at last!

68933 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #213 of 694 🔗

Richard Horton is not very keen on being questioned on the Andrew Wakefield MMR paper either!

68954 ▶▶▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #214 of 694 🔗

Why Medical Authorities Went to Such Extremes to Silence Dr. Andrew Wakefield
“In the years after his initial controversial finding, linking the MMR vaccine to Crohn’s disease and autism, he [Dr Wakefield] published another 19 papers on the vaccine-induced disorder.

All were peer reviewed. However, strangely enough, none of these 19 papers are ever discussed in the media. The only study that keeps seeing the light of day is the original study from 1998, along with the original questions about conflicts of interest, which he explains in great detail in this interview.

This is very interesting indeed, because not only has he continued his own studies, but since then, a large number of replication studies have been performed around the world, by other researchers, that confirm his initial findings.”


68948 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 8, #215 of 694 🔗

Someone’s in deep shit if it’s shown many 1000s of people have died when there was a cheap safe treatment available all along

68881 John B, replying to John B, 29, #216 of 694 🔗

Newsflash from France:

« le ministre des Solidarités et de la Santé Olivier Véran a assuré que la France n’était « pas dans la deuxième vague du coronavirus »

Trans: Minister for Health has confirmed that France was not having a second wave.

Someone tell BoJo the Clown in No 10.

68883 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John B, 11, #217 of 694 🔗

I highly doubt the PM really believes we will have a second wave of any great significance. It just suits him to talk about it. I may be wrong, but it seems implausible.

68894 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Julian, 7, #218 of 694 🔗

Of course he doesn’t. It’s all about covering his ar@e regarding the quarantine decision. He’s at odds with what the WHO are saying too.

68942 ▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Margaret, 6, #219 of 694 🔗

It’s all about covering his big fat one for i) Not stopping flights from Italy and Spain when it could have helped, ii) Moving elderly, ill patients out of hospitals into care homes leading directly to the majority of deaths WITH Covid, and iii) listening to known Charlatan and hyper sensational doom merchant Ferguson and initiating the idiotic and destructive lockdown. Everything he and his clownish Government say and do now is all about deflection from those three critical errors (amongst many others). They are trying to ensure the narrative that WE are to blame, by insisting on Face Masks, putting in place illogical and pointless quarantine and travel bans, Social Distancing and all the other idiotic paraphernalia. They clocked on very early that the thick as mince and/or totally compliant MSM would put up no serious questioning, and all he/they had to do was ramp it up as far as possible and they would lap it up. The ‘Second Wave’ is a comple fiction which has landed in his lap from the MSM and sensationalist medics. They can now tell us that it was only their brave and wise decisions that saw it off and saved millions of lives to the mass ‘unprecedented pandemic. Ha bloody ha.

69001 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #220 of 694 🔗

Neil Fergusson has saved eleventeen thousand cats’ lives…

70268 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Sam Vimes, #221 of 694 🔗

I think the foul “Professor” Ferguson would need those lives for himself if he came across people who weren’t allowed to even say goodbye to a dying relative.

69122 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #222 of 694 🔗

A slight point I’d make is that the media has driven government policy from the beginning (presumably because they think that the media represents the popular view, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary over the past 5 years), and as soon as the government implemented what the media were demanding, the media changed tack. Before lockdown: we need to lockdown now! After lockdown: how long will lockdown be for?! or: Lockdown needs to be harsher!
Before masks: Make masks mandatory! After masks, either: They need to be mandatory in more places! or: When will we no longer have to wear masks?!

69154 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #223 of 694 🔗

I agree, and this is interesting because according to Mason Mills, the government are planning imminent action as regards the BBC – this despite the BBC seeming to have driven policy/regulations that the government seem clearly to have wanted.. So I don’t see why the government have on the one hand allowed/encouraged this, but yet now say they plan to rein in the BBC… What am I missing?

69244 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #224 of 694 🔗

Surely, it’s a simple case of HMG blackmailing the beeb. Print covid fear porn – or else …

Remember how they handled the beeb journalists during the election, turned them into Tory lackeys. One of the only clearly declared things in the Tory manifesto was their intention to decimate the beeb.

69295 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #225 of 694 🔗

I doubt it – the media leads the government, not the reverse, and it’s a left wing fallacy that they’re in cahoots (odd word, I must remember to look up the origin). The BBC is only too glad to run endless death porn as it makes the government look bad (not that they need any help…)

69355 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #226 of 694 🔗

“ odd word, I must remember to look up the origin”
One of those where nobody really knows. Sorry.

68944 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Julian, #227 of 694 🔗

As the cartoon shows – he’s got his chart upsidedown

68949 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 2, #228 of 694 🔗

There was some expert on something today or yesterday -yes he was that impressive I remembered so little – anyway he was saying waves are not what he prefers, he prefers spikes. Plenty of spikes this expert says will come, but not a wave. He was some big wig dribblista.
You’ve probably all discussed him before.

Why I mention is there may come a shift from waves to spikes.

Geez. 2020.

69041 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Basics, 2, #229 of 694 🔗

Easier to fabricate a spike than a wave, just create spikes all the time and say they threaten a wave unless we act now

69128 ▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Julian, #230 of 694 🔗

By George, you’re right! 🙂

69166 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Julian, 1, #231 of 694 🔗

Wave requires large scale collusiin across continents.

Billiam arm flap gates seems to be loosing his rag… see the latest heningsen twitter video on this tread.

Are we seeing an on the hoof move in plan?

69127 ▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Basics, 1, #232 of 694 🔗

Could have been David Nabarro, “WHO Special Envoy on Covid”, who is obviously completely impartial and very fond of spikes.


Notes on impartiality:


69171 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Simon Dutton, 2, #233 of 694 🔗

It was him! This thread never beaten! The most vague fragment reveals information and often relations and histories. Thanks!

69487 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to John B, #234 of 694 🔗

There was a famous clown in the USA called Bozo the Clown. I wonder if they are related?

68884 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 37, #235 of 694 🔗

Moved over from earlier:

Out and about with the wife, both of us maskless all the time. She now actually asks me before we leave the house if i have my badge on, before she didn’t care. Now she puts ear’s on and reminds me.
Few downer observations:

  • Apart from us only 1 other person unmasked – highlights below
  • in the outdoor shopping area at Trentham gardens it’s amazing how many people do not know the meaning of the word enclosed and masked up all the time
  • every shop had a Trentham Estates A4 notice in the window about masks being required, only 1 had any reference to exemptions and thats as handwritten and said “under 11s exempt”. It was a really nasty shopping experience with all the signs and warnings and empty units. Trentham may get a letter about our experience which left them life really despondent it was that bad after I ahem a few beers and the creative juices start flowing.
  • Lots of child abuse happening with children in pushchairs in masks
  • sad to see a group of young teen girls walking about with matching handbags, muzzles and hair bands as if they were fashion accessories.
  • Lots of furtive glances then looking way and going down different aisles or swerving to avoid us unbelievers. No idle chitchat or interaction by the muzzled to anyone other than who they came out with.
  • Wife went into craft shop by herself, woman said “mask required”. Wife answered “I’m exempt” (true, she is for a couple of reasons) to which the woman looked really strange at her so she said “OK, I’m off to spend elsewhere” and walked out.
  • Coming out and ambulance was parked outside. As I walked past the 2 charity collectors they heard me say to the wife “another person collapsed with the mask on and cannot breath do you think?” and they answered, it was exactly that, usually at least once a day.

Good though:

  • getting easier each time going out unmuzzled and walking straight into somewhere
  • not challenged anywhere except that once mentioned above
  • builder’s merchants couldn’t care masked or not, started taking cash again
  • B+M staff told not to challenge anyone without a mask under any circumstances

Best bit, I made an old woman smile in pleasure as well – not like that you dirty lot – going inside the garden centre everyone bunching up at the door while muzzling up, walked straight past them and in. Old lady about 4 ft 6″ came in immediately behind us, almost like we were running interference for her. We stopped to look at plants and as she passed I smiled. She stopped, smiled back a bit hesitantly so I smiled bigger and said “another unbeliever but remember to say you are exempt if questioned, breathing problems”. She says she’s not exempt but in her mid-80s she’s not wearing a mask as the nazis did not win the war. She was relieved someone else felt the same way and she now knows she is not alone and smiled again, this time a big grin and she got one back.
See, I did make a woman smile in pleasure.

68901 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 18, #236 of 694 🔗

Every smile is a poke in THEIR eye.
Take THAT, Matt the Death. Take THAT, Fetida Dickhead.

69093 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #237 of 694 🔗

Today I had an appointment for a 3 month overdue B12 jab at the GP surgery. Spoke to two women in the queue outside, one over 70, and both said they were fed up with masks and can’t wait till we can stop wearing them.

69257 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Montag Smith, #238 of 694 🔗

I hope you educated them!

69329 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #239 of 694 🔗

I love that – she’s not wearing a mask because the nazis didn’t win the war!

68886 Riffman, replying to Riffman, 23, #240 of 694 🔗

Last couple of days I’ve been looking at DailyvMail headlines, and in particular comments. Today was about the dreaded 2nd wave, so I wrote an appropriate comment. I was truly amazed at the consensus of agreement and ferocity of the vast majority of fellow contributors. It was almost like being on LS, the tide IS turning!
Might I suggest as many of us as possible find as many appropriate articles as we can to comment on via their site? It would at least add useful ammo to the cause we all care about so much.

68891 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Riffman, 1, #241 of 694 🔗

Yesterday was the opposite on the Spanish nonsense – guess it depends on how much the 77th and 13th Signals are paying attention and if the censorbot is busy.

68906 ▶▶▶ Riffman, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #242 of 694 🔗

Yea I saw that too, my 4th day of imprisonment after we dared go on holiday to Tenerife. I think a lot of that might just be envy they didn’t have the guts to do it themselves? Today is the sudden realisation they’re gonna all get Locked(f…ed!) up on this one. Penny is dropping ‘sheeple’!

68892 chrissie, replying to chrissie, 15, #243 of 694 🔗

Immunology Prof Beda Stadler: we have reached herd immunity and masks for all make no sense, plus lots more super interesting info: https://youtu.be/GBRcK-od50Q
“We have replaced sxience with a medieval believe system”

68908 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to chrissie, 1, #244 of 694 🔗

He talks a lot of sense. The Swiss version of Dr John Lee.

69083 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to chrissie, 2, #245 of 694 🔗

We have. Surprised the Flagellants haven’t reappeared yet. Oh, wait, muzzles…

68895 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 5, #246 of 694 🔗

Cause the masks don’t work
They just make you worse

But I
Know I’ll see your face again

One for that guy who did the majestical Sunglasses At Night parody

68910 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Farinances, 3, #247 of 694 🔗

Ashcroft probably looks better with a muzzle.

Thinking about it, that video could be remade with hordes of masked people desparately trying to avoid an unmuzzled Ashcroft.

Edit: memory failure, I was thinking of the Bittersweet Symphony Video

68934 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to Farinances, 1, #248 of 694 🔗

That’s so bizarre. I was thinking this morning about this exact same song – and changing the words as you have done. Great minds eh?

68998 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RDawg, 3, #249 of 694 🔗

Maybe antisocial distancing is creating psychic connections between sceptics ;P

68903 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #250 of 694 🔗

“Shielded” groups feeling lonely in their isolation? Never mind, we have a new solution.

No, not social contact – god forbid!

It’s ….. ta-dah! …..
A robot!

From the DT live.

Now, after a surge in loneliness among vulnerable groups during the coronavirus pandemic, this robot’s potential as a companion have earned her a role in a Scottish university’s assisted living experiment with artificial intelligence.
Scientists at Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh have programmed robots, including Pepper – who was launched as the world’s first humanoid in Japan in 2014 – to perform tasks normally carried out by care workers.
“We are specifically interested in understanding the needs of the most vulnerable at this time and what technology could be used to make their lives better,” Mauro Dragone, the project’s lead scientist, said.
…. “Successful innovation in the field is crucial to alleviate the strain on health and social care services.”

68915 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #251 of 694 🔗

You wonder if the human race really deserves the gift of life sometimes, present company excepted

69004 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, #252 of 694 🔗

I wish I was a dog, or a goldfish or something. Anything but human.

69038 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to A. Contrarian, 6, #253 of 694 🔗

There’s a simple test to check whether you’re either of those things. Two questions:
1) Have you already forgotten writing the post above?
2) have you eaten (or rolled in) someone (or something) else’s poo in the last 48 hours?

If the answer to both of those questions is “no”, you are neither a dog, nor a goldfish.

69137 ▶▶▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to matt, 4, #254 of 694 🔗

You’ve got me seriously worried. I think I rolled in something malodorous this afternoon but can’t remember what. All I know is that my scales are smelly.

69238 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Simon Dutton, 2, #255 of 694 🔗

Are you perhaps a dogfish?

68919 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #256 of 694 🔗

Ta daa indeed. Long has it been up the sleeve. Foreseeing this very day of isolated people how could they have known.

68907 Albie, replying to Albie, 8, #257 of 694 🔗

If you ever speak to a mask zealot ask them if only people with a wheelchair or visible walking difficulties should be allowed to use a disabled parking space. They will probably say no and point out many have hidden disabilities or words to that effect. You’ve hopefully made them think about pointing the finger.

68939 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Albie, 3, #258 of 694 🔗

Good idea!

69099 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Albie, 5, #259 of 694 🔗

If you grab the pointing finger and bend it backwards towards the wrist, I find they always think before pointing next time.

69263 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Albie, #260 of 694 🔗

Point one finger, three point back at you!

68911 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 35, #261 of 694 🔗

Greetings fellow sceptics!

Haven’t been on here as much lately because I am currently on holiday in a remote part of Scotland with my bf and there is no wifi in our accommodation and even mobile data is pretty patchy. In a way it’s nice to be cut off from all the Covid bollocks on the internet, it was really starting to do my head in and make me feel pretty low, especially with all this rubbish about a second wave (more like a suppressed first wave). We’re right next to the sea, talking daily long, brisk, bracing walks surrounded by gorgeous scenery, diverse wildlife and fresh air – nothing better for the immune system and there’s hardly anyone around, and those that are act totally normally, not a mask to be seen. We’re going for fish and chips tonight and we refuse to feel guilty for it as part of this ludicrous anti-obesity drive. We eat such meals as part of a healthy diet and we are both very physically active people. I take particular issue with the nannyish obesity campaign not only because I am naturally averse to increased government interference in our lives, but because I was hospitalised with an eating disorder at the age of 11. It has taken me a long time to have a healthy relationship with food and I taught myself to have an ‘everything in moderation’ attitude, along with plenty of exercise and sleep. I also don’t think that slapping calorie labels on menus and banning fast food ads will address obesity which is more of a problem relating to how modern life and society is structured (e.g. more people working longer hours, therefore less time/energy to cook healthy meals and exercise) but that’s another debate for another day.

Anyway, I love reading this edition of the Postcards. Lots of countries engaged in collective insanity back in March but it just goes to show that the UK is a true basket case. It can probably be attributed to the deification of the NHS, something unique to our country, an overhang of our lost imperial glory, and how everyone’s lives must be upended permanently to ‘save a hospital’ (in the words of my bf). Everything is viewed through the prism of the NHS and it is totally sclerotic and myopic, skewing any sort of debate on any relevant issue – like Covid.

But back to the fresh sea air and my bf. I feel like I’m 100ft tall when I’m with him and like I can take on anything. I’m trying to enjoy life as much as possible now because I am dreading winter (a season I loathe enough as it is) when it will all come crashing down and we could see some genuinely horrendous times and maybe martial law. I sincerely hope I’m wrong.

68946 ▶▶ LGDTLK, replying to Poppy, 6, #262 of 694 🔗

Great to hear you’re doing better Poppy. Some of your distressing earlier postings had this curmudgeonly old bugger close to tears. Carry on doing what you’re doing. All I can do is apologise for the fuck-up that politicians of my generation are creating for yours.

69092 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Poppy, 5, #263 of 694 🔗

The traditional guide to healthy living:

  • All things in moderation
  • A little of what you fancy does you good

I can vouch for it.

69095 ▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 4, #264 of 694 🔗

Have a great holiday, Poppy.
Forget winter.

69112 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Poppy, #265 of 694 🔗

In Scotland, the remote parts are the best parts. Enjoy your holiday!

69165 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Poppy, 1, #266 of 694 🔗

Glad you’re enjoying your holiday Poppy. And sadly I have to agree with you on the deification of the NHS; a colleague is in poor health because he’s missed consultations and check ups regarding his heart procedure last year. Yet he still continues to believe that the NHS is the best despite them failing him.

I feel sorry for him and yet the mind boggles as to why he continues to lavish the Church of the NHS with hosannas!

69232 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Poppy, 1, #267 of 694 🔗

The calorie thing doesn’t bother me, I must admit, as I have no notion of what it means and have no clue how many make up my daily intake (obviously not what would count as too many as my weight hovers around 10 stone), nor do I particularly care. I eat chocolate most days for instance, but not much, as eating the right amount of anything you like is the key, not only eating greenery our something. Eat whatever you like in moderation and you will never be fat, nor feel like you’re starving yourself and then randomly binge. I bet Boris will binge, I can just see it…

69317 ▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to Poppy, #268 of 694 🔗

Great to hear that you’re with the bf and he seems to have come round to your way of thinking….

69377 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Poppy, #269 of 694 🔗

Good to read your both having a nice time. Getting out in the countryside really does help a lot. Getting away from mental people.

Eat more chips!
New science is emerging that eating chips helps prevent covids or something.

68914 Cody, 14, #270 of 694 🔗

The story of a reader having problems trying to see their GP is one that resonates with me (and probably many others).My argument is that this is not solely down to the virus as I had exactly the same issue back in November. Trying to get past the brick wall that is a GP’s receptionist is an age old problem.I also had cause to cancel a hospital appointment around the same time and,after numerous lengthy unsuccessful attempts to get through, gave up.Two days later a letter arrived;by missing my appointment and by not bothering to tell them,I had cost the NHS hundreds of pounds and was now removed from their database. Two more identical letters also arrived.The NHS,much loved by this zombie nation,is,and has been for some time, unfit for purpose.

68917 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 21, #271 of 694 🔗


Phase 1, about 2 wks ago, was get the bus, and explain I don’t have a face covering, before wasting my e-ticket. Success, driver just nodded.

Phase 2, last week, get on bus bare faced, just say hello and ping my ticket.Succes, driver didn’t engage at all.

Phase 3, just now: Aldi for a few bits. No goon on the door, I was the only bareface customer, felt great. No hassle at all. Two staff without muzzles, lady in front of me (muzzled) asked checkout girl if she had to wear mask, girl said “We don’t, customers do, but we’re not supposed to tell them they have to “. Result!

On to Home Bargains. No goon, mostly masked, but counted four adults, two teenage girls without. At least two customers with masks under their noses – which is breaking the law, if they aren’t exempt. Shame they didn’t have a go, it would have been fun. Did my thing, no hassle at all.

Back to Aldi and Asda tomorrow, for Phase 4 – full weekly shop. Feeling good.

Imagine posting on a website that you’ve been shopping without having to humiliate yourself…

68955 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #272 of 694 🔗

I was wondering about Home Bargains. My favourite shop pre-mask, really relaxed and friendly/skeptical staff. (havent shopped anywhere yet since M-day though)

68992 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kf99, 2, #273 of 694 🔗

They’ve been great throughout, just the anti-social distancing thing. I turned away just once when it was peeing down and there was a queue to get in. That’s died down now. Same staff since day one, quite a few minority ethnic ones too, and yet all strangely still alive.

68961 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #274 of 694 🔗

Yes, shopping the new intrepid adventure into the Heart of Darkness.

68920 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #275 of 694 🔗

As per the previous thread and discussions about the 28% increase in positive tests that prompted our Dear Leader – he with his superior skills for absorbing facts, figures and detail while winging it – to declare the possibility of a second wave. This has just been posted on The Mail, suggesting there has been a 14% increase in positive tests:


By tomorrow, this will have been adjusted further to an insignificant 4-5%, something that will be closer to the actual figure based on the reported data. So which civil servant or minister can’t do percentages?

68921 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #276 of 694 🔗

“So which civil servant or minister can’t do percentages?”

Is that a trick question? I was about to answer “all of them.”

68951 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #277 of 694 🔗

no – it is 120% of them

68952 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to mjr, 3, #278 of 694 🔗

Hello, I’m Diane Abbott….

68969 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #279 of 694 🔗

Sadly I think they can do percentages very well. I expect the 28% wasn’t technically untrue, just a cherry picked statistic, designed to mislead. Governments have always done this, but once upon a time, we had a free, curious press and an opposition to hold them to account. Now they just spout any old nonsense and people don’t question it.

69114 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #280 of 694 🔗

Ministers have always been vegetables:


68922 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #281 of 694 🔗

I’d spotted this earlier today. They really must have got very close to the truth!


Donald Trump has praised as “spectacular” a doctor who wrongly dismissed the use of face masks to combat the coronavirus as well as reportedly claiming that alien DNA is used in medical treatments and some gynecological problems are caused by people dreaming about having sex with demons.
A group of lab coat-wearing doctors posted an online video on Monday to make a string of inaccurate assertions about the coronavirus that contradicted official government guidelines. Among them was a woman who identified herself as Dr Stella Immanuel and said: “You don’t need masks. There is a cure.”

68938 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #282 of 694 🔗

Yes, and Bill Gates is obviously frustrated at the lack of enthusiasm for his vaccines: https://twitter.com/21WIRE/status/1288366362532941824
He is not too subtly angling for social media to take down any anti-vaccine information..

69187 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Carrie, 2, #283 of 694 🔗

As has been said elsewhere: I wouldn’t trust Bill Gates to fix a virus in Windows 10….

69218 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lms23, 1, #284 of 694 🔗

Bill Gates is 64 – below the age of most people who have died from CV19, but nonetheless no spring chicken and therefore potentially at some risk of getting a more serious case of the virus were he to be infected. *IF* this virus really was as dangerous as he makes out, he would hardly be out and about touring TV studios and mingling with other people, not wearing a mask…

69400 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #285 of 694 🔗

Bill gates looks much older. Dermatologists would be able to age him more accurately I am sure!

69401 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Basics, #286 of 694 🔗

Cut him in half and count the rings?

69337 ▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to Carrie, 2, #287 of 694 🔗

Bill Gates has stated in a recent interview that he has $10 billion invested in covid19 vaccines, and he hope to get a return of 20 to 1: i.e. $200 billion.

69488 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to bluefreddy, 1, #288 of 694 🔗

I saw that interview moment too. He looked so pleased. One step closer to becoming a trillionaire.

68980 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #289 of 694 🔗

“wrongly dismissed the use of face masks to combat the coronavirus”
Wrongly dismissed? I’m sorry, I must have missed the conclusive study that settled the previously debatable usefulness and concluded it was no longer “marginal at best”. Does anyone have a link?

If you’ll excuse me for a minute, I must go and buy myself a fetching little black number now that the evidence is clear.

68926 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #290 of 694 🔗

Yesterday I wrote to TFL to complain about their manipulative and distressing muzzle announcement so I was surprised to receive this:

29 July 2020

Thanks for taking the time to complete a web form on 28 July about TfL and face mask public announcements.

I’m sorry you feel uncomfortable over our public announcements encouraging customers to wear face mask. In line with new Government guidance, face coverings must be worn for the full duration of journeys on the public transport network from Monday 15 June.

We have been running a far-reaching communications campaign to encourage the use of face coverings, with posters, radio and other advertisements, public announcements and millions of emails sent to customers.

However, if you are exempt from wearing a face covering, you can download and print the card below and carry it with you. You may want to print it and wear it on a lanyard or attach it to your clothing. You can show it if you are asked why you are not wearing a face covering. We will also recognise similar cards that may have been issued by other transport operators. You can also display it on your phone.

If you do not have a printer or a smartphone, you can contact us and we will print and post a card to you. Call 0343 222 1234 ( charges may apply ).

Nevertheless, I’ve now passed your comments over to Keolis-Amey Docklands who manage the DLR on behalf of Transport for London.

Feedback and suggestion from our customers are valued and can only serve to improve our services and system. We are always grateful to hear from our customers and would like to encourage you to pass along your future thoughts.

Thanks again for contacting us. If there is anything else we can help you with, please reply to this email. Alternatively, you can call us on 0343 222 1234 and we’ll be happy to help you.
Kind regards

Customer Service Adviser
Transport for London Customer Services

My blood was boiling as I read the reply as obviously the person who replied did not bother to read my email properly. I was rather in a bad mood when I sent this:


Thank you for your reply. It seems to me that you did not understand the thrust of my email. I am fully aware of the government guidelines as I have been bombarded with emails from your office every week exhorting the use of face coverings as well as seeing the patronising and even threatening adverts on the station. I do not need you to remind me of what the regulations are.

I am also aware of the exemptions as I carry a lanyard with me.

My question now is, what are you planning to do with the announcements on the station? As I mentioned in my email, its not only in the DLR that I have encountered these manipulative and harassing announcements but even in other stations. You say that you are sorry that I feel uncomfortable so would it not be the best course of action to reword and lessen the frequency of the announcements? I should think that I am not the only one who feels distressed with these announcements.

Your office should practise what it preaches and you should also show consideration for people who are unable to wear face coverings for physical and psychological reasons.

Thank you again and I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,

68996 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #291 of 694 🔗

Good one. I look forward to their reply. And why do these scumbags insist on referring to passengers as “customers”. It’s almost as bad as HMRC referring to tax payers as “customers”

69016 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tenchy, 1, #292 of 694 🔗

The mind boggles.It will be interesting to see how quick they reply.

69149 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Tenchy, 3, #293 of 694 🔗

Yes, the HMRC and “customers” … As a “customer” of the taxman I must say that I am dissatisfied with the service and will be taking my custom elsewhere!

69209 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Simon Dutton, 1, #294 of 694 🔗

Huh. Our local district council refers to us as ‘customers’. And when I moaned to our councillor, she genuinely could not see what the problem was.

69275 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, 1, #295 of 694 🔗

Apparently DWP now refers to UC claimants as ‘customers’. Whilst sanctioning them into starvation.

69399 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #296 of 694 🔗

Your local council will in fact have a trading wing for profit with stakeholders.

69398 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Simon Dutton, #297 of 694 🔗

Currently a month wait into my complaint about just this. HMRC claimed, when I questioned, they use customers because it is friendly. I spelt out to them the point about a customer has choice. I dabbled a little further by proposing that it may be HMRC is a trading entity, for profit. HMRC clearly should not be twisting language without reason. Waiting..

69388 ▶▶▶ James Bertram, replying to Tenchy, #298 of 694 🔗

Or like HMPS referring to inmates as customers.

69033 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #299 of 694 🔗

Good response, but perhaps you could have pointed out that exemption cards are not required by the regulations and as such they have no business expecting exempt people to carry them. Something like that anyway.

69097 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #300 of 694 🔗

Alas too late as I’ve sent it already. However my hope is that they change their announcements as they’re irritating and it constitutes harassment. The staff have not really challenged me or anyone else unmuzzled.

68940 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 16, #301 of 694 🔗

You have to question why Facebook, Twitter, Google/YouTube have all censored every possible version of the American Frontline Doctors video. Even shutting down their website.

What is really going on? I have never before believed in conspiracy theories but now I genuinely suspect the WHO is corrupt and the vaccine pushers are desperate to keep the fear going, in order to push their vaccines on a virus that is rapidly dying out.

What is the end game here? Mandatory vaccination for all? Huge profits to be made? Social control? Compliance and obedience? I wish I knew the answers.

68956 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to RDawg, 6, #302 of 694 🔗

Bill Gates is obviously frustrated at the lack of enthusiasm for his vaccines: https://twitter.com/21WIRE/status/1288366362532941824
He is not too subtly angling for social media to take down any anti-vaccine information..hence why the Frontline doctors video is being censored..

68960 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Carrie, 1, #303 of 694 🔗

Great thanks

68966 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Carrie, 4, #304 of 694 🔗

Old Billy boy does seem almost angry in that piece.

He like the narrative to go his way and those doctors speaking out go a lot of views, despite the videos being removed from the main streaming platforms.

69212 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, #305 of 694 🔗

Yes, the more angry he is, the more he waves his arms about!

68995 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 6, #306 of 694 🔗

He was interviewed on CNBC yesterday. Had a serious go at Elon Musk (a lockdown and corona vaccine sceptic) for his lack of background in vaccine research. Last time I looked, neither he nor his wife have either!

69017 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 5, #307 of 694 🔗

And none of them are medically trained at all!

69035 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, #308 of 694 🔗

Interesting that CNBC chose to have Andrew Ross Sorkin interview him rather than former Microbiologist and climate change sceptic, Joe Kernen!

69159 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, #309 of 694 🔗

Thanks shared onwards without twitter

68957 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to RDawg, 7, #310 of 694 🔗

Non of us mere citizens know the end game.

Not too long ago on here many were saying BoJo and his cabinet have just cocked up and are looking for a way to get out without looking too foolish.

This is virtually world wide, BoJo is only a very tiny player in this.

Sorry I do not have answers.

68963 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Dave #KBF, 10, #311 of 694 🔗

And with the plethora of research and data analysis available, you’d think Starmer would be all over Boris like a rash. But no, not one dissenting voice in any of the opposition parties, anywhere. Yes, this is an international push for…???

69027 ▶▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to T. Prince, 1, #312 of 694 🔗

“Yes, this is an international push for…???”

Injecting something into us

69036 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Martin Spencer, 1, #313 of 694 🔗

‘Injecting something into us’ Twice. Hasn’t Gurning Gates said we’ll also need a ‘booster’?

69052 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to T. Prince, #314 of 694 🔗

.. and the microchip…

69082 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #315 of 694 🔗

I don’t see why both can’t be happening on two levels.

69106 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #316 of 694 🔗

Groupthink by world ‘leaders’!

69241 ▶▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #317 of 694 🔗

On the other hand, since the opposition parties were fully behind the ‘lockdown’, how do they criticise the Government without first admitting that they got it wrong as well? As things stand, they won’t be able to lay any blame on Boris – even when the economic damage becomes obvious to all.

68958 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to RDawg, 6, #318 of 694 🔗

The video’s still up on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKbQbcInHnA&feature=emb_logo

I’m also not usually a conspiracy theorist but have a strong suspicion that vaccine-related money is at least part of the reason behind the media’s seemingly relentless attempt to keep up the fear and censor “misinformation”.

I don’t think there’s anything deeper (along the lines of a totalitarian world state, implanted microchips for tracking, etc. etc.), just money and corruption. If there really was a diabolical conspiracy they would surely be doing a better job of it, with censorship beyond simply removing things from the biggest social media platforms.

68974 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Drawde927, 3, #319 of 694 🔗

If you look at some of the events which us conspiracy theorists believe are set-ups, these events are not done very well.

Despite having massive organisations behind them many times the cracks are not too difficult to find.

So it is not a surprise that they are making a hash of cv19, yes they have brainwashed many, but not all.

69268 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #320 of 694 🔗

What if an accidental virus leak bounced them into implementing a pre-existing plan early?

69009 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Drawde927, 2, #321 of 694 🔗

I urge anyone who has not watched the American Doctor conference to watch at least the first part of the video above.

Gives a good insight into cv19, description of the disease and how one doctor has been treating it.

It has got almost 300,000 views, so will probably be dumped by YT shortly.

69186 ▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Dave #KBF, #322 of 694 🔗

I opened the link to this video last night on Brietbart but paused it because I didn’t have time to watch it all…I’ve just gone back to the tab/page now and it’s also disappeared from Brietbart’s page! And I didn’t shut my computer down overnight…I simply refreshed the page just now as the video wasn’t playing properley and voila! it has now gone…!

69267 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Drawde927, 1, #323 of 694 🔗

I have to strongly disagree with you.The entire broadcast media.The whole of the printed press.Anything that contradicts the official narrative is swiftly taken down by all the social media outlets.Thats now a bad stab at total control of opinion in the internet age.

68962 ▶▶ James007, replying to RDawg, 10, #324 of 694 🔗

This is precisely the sort of thing that encourages conspiracy theories! If it is wrong – argue back! Why is is wrong? Let journalists investigate it. Some of us are still thinking individuals.

Given what has happened on masks, I worry that a sort of “mandatory” vaccination may come. It wont actually be compulsory, but life will be made a little bit harder for those who dont comply. (eg. vaccination certificate number required to send your child back to school).

I am not an “anti-vaxer”. Carefully developed and trialled vaccines have been a good thing. People must surely have a choice though. Medical interventions must require geuine consent. There must be no coercion.

69105 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to James007, 2, #325 of 694 🔗

I agree. Anti-vaxxers are generally fringe conspiracy theorists, but I won’t have a Covid vaccine that has been developed and tested in an unusually short time. I will let other people be the guinea pigs and wait for evidence that it’s safe and more than marginally effective.

69198 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Montag Smith, #326 of 694 🔗

You’re entitled to your opinion, anon. Tell us about all the double-blind vaccine safety trials please.

68975 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to RDawg, 5, #327 of 694 🔗

I just don’t know what I believe anymore. What seemed absolutely bonkers to me was Tedros Thingybob’s announcement yesterday:

“Covid-19 is “easily the most severe” global health emergency the World Health Organization (WHO) has ever declared, said WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus during a press briefing today.“

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-this-is-the-most-severe-health-crisis-ever-says-who/#ixzz6TVOrAFyV

68988 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RDawg, #328 of 694 🔗


69022 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to RDawg, 3, #329 of 694 🔗

My flabber, it is ghasted.

68983 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to RDawg, 1, #330 of 694 🔗

Cash. Gates gets his and they get theirs (from him).

68989 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RDawg, 1, #331 of 694 🔗

Global DNA Database

69025 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RDawg, 1, #332 of 694 🔗

UK Column have some answers. Their news broadcasts are excellent: https://www.ukcolumn.org/

John Ward suggests some ideas here: https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2020/07/25/the-saturday-essay-the-best-whodunnit-hypothesis/

69185 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to RDawg, #333 of 694 🔗

All of those things, Dawg.

Interesting times ! 🙂

68965 TJN, replying to TJN, 6, #334 of 694 🔗

The TJN household’s MP (Conservative) doesn’t bother any more to reply to our emails concerning government Covid policy, which in public at least he appears broadly supportive of.

But this morning I did get a rise – asked him straight out whether he was in favour of, against, or unsure about compulsory vaccination, including for covid. Got a same-day reply saying ‘he is not in favour of compulsory vaccination’.

Of course, I’m going to hold him to this.

It may be worth other Sceptics trying the same on their MP – they can hardly refuse to answer such a fundamental question.

68972 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to TJN, 1, #335 of 694 🔗

I sent a note to our local Con MP, a member of the 1922 Committee a few weeks ago. Oh look, tumbleweed….

69019 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, 1, #336 of 694 🔗

Mine replied that the vaccine will be voluntary – but he’s a mere backbencher, what does he know?

69049 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #337 of 694 🔗

Mason Mills said it would be voluntary… but that could still mean no vaccine= no job/travel etc..

69075 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Carrie, 1, #338 of 694 🔗

I think that is the route they will go down.

69117 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #339 of 694 🔗

Sadly I would have to agree..

69180 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Carrie, #340 of 694 🔗

In Ireland a few years ago, a government minister came up with a doozy of a quote about Public Services Cards (ID cards by the back door), stating that the card was “not compulsory but is mandatory” for certain services. I envisage any vaccine being treated similarly.

69042 ▶▶ Julian, replying to TJN, #341 of 694 🔗

I think it’s an excellent question to ask – would you vote to make covid vaccination mandatory, yes or no. Don’t ask whether it will be, ask whether THEY would vote in favour.

69081 ▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to Julian, 2, #342 of 694 🔗

They know they won’t be given a vote, so can safely say “no”.

69057 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Cheezilla, #344 of 694 🔗

Thanks! I just read the whle thing – very, very interesting seems plausible. The final paragraph or so is worth reading, even if you don’t want to read it all.

68973 PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, 7, #345 of 694 🔗

BREAKING: Congressman Matt Gaetz has just sent Attorney General William Barr a criminal referral for Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg following Project Veritas insider reports detailing political censorship and targeting #ExposeFacebook
Partake on Parler

Parler.com was set up to protect free speech, time to go there before being taken off the monopolist totalitarian Facebook, Twitter, youtube

68977 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to PowerCorrupts, 1, #346 of 694 🔗

Joined Parler a month or so ago. Might sound weird but I feel a lot better for it mentally!

68982 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to PowerCorrupts, #347 of 694 🔗

Last time I looked you needed to give Parler a mobile number. Is this still the case?

68984 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, #348 of 694 🔗


68985 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #349 of 694 🔗

And if you want to verify your account you have to upload your passport.

69116 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to JohnB, #350 of 694 🔗

LOL – they won’t be getting my custom then.

68976 HelzBelz, 18, #351 of 694 🔗

Just wanted to share a very positive shopping experience today – local parade of shops. First the greengrocer. Had already sussed him out as an anti-masker, so in I trotted. He smiled and we chatted. He then told me I could get a card if I didn’t want to wear a mask – his lad had just got one. I said I have one but only intend to use it if a situation gets difficult. Next stop the post office. Walked in with confidence and went to the card section. Browsed for a bit then spotted the owner heading my way. He is normally a grumpy git, so I was expecting some grief, but to my surprise, no – he smiled and walked past. Bit of a dance with a mask wearer as I approached the till – she obviously had me down as some kind of leper, but no bitching. Girl at till was lovely and maskless. We chatted and she gave me what I felt was a conspiratorial smile as I left. Has boosted my confidence massively as I haven’t shopped since Mask Friday!

68979 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #352 of 694 🔗

I’ve just checked the ban muzzles in shops petition. Just over 22,000 signatures. Needs more support.

I’m proud to say that my constituency has 70 signatures so far.

69023 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #353 of 694 🔗

It’s crushing to see how many other petitions there are with WAY more support, on topics much less important. The top 20 or so are an interesting mixture of “we want more lockdown, close everything now and keep it closed” and “we want more money to compensate us for being closed during lockdown”.

69141 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 1, #354 of 694 🔗

There are way more zombies than human beings out there.

69224 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 1, #355 of 694 🔗

Sounds to me like there are a lot of people about to get a rude awakening.

68981 kf99, replying to kf99, 1, #356 of 694 🔗

Bannantyne threatening to close down Scottish gyms as they still can’t open unlike in England. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-53573635

69000 ▶▶ Julian, replying to kf99, 7, #357 of 694 🔗

We need more prominent business leaders to speak out

69072 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 11, #358 of 694 🔗

I can’t understand the silence from big business over this.This has been one of the strangest things in this crisis.

69079 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #359 of 694 🔗

It is a good point you mention Jonathan. The strange silence. Has it been decided by public relations/marketing advisers or why?. Silence in all industries has been a feature of this entire debacle.

69118 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #360 of 694 🔗

I seem to remember reading the other day that 3 large influential organisations – BlackRock and 2 others – own all the big businesses, hence probably why businesses are silent..?

69167 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 1, #361 of 694 🔗

Remembering one of the others was called ‘State Street’..

69123 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alci, replying to Basics, #362 of 694 🔗

Luke Johnson addresses that, I think in his Delingpod podcast. He claims he knows several big business owners who privately agree with his lockdown scepticism but won’t speak out. They’d be rejected from polite society/establishment. Could impact future deals and jobs. They can move money & houses around so not directly impacted.

69002 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to kf99, 2, #363 of 694 🔗

Potentially a further 600 job losses to add to the 150,000 or so which have lost jobs since March.

68986 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #364 of 694 🔗

Purely anecdotal but I’ve noticed a lot more reduced items in my local supermarkets since masks became compulsory. To me it’s a possible sign that numbers are down because people don’t want to spend more time in a mask than necessary. Anybody else notice signs of this? (Scotland BTW)

68993 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Nobody2020, #365 of 694 🔗

It is usually the “music” that drives me out.

69073 ▶▶ Scots lass, replying to Nobody2020, #366 of 694 🔗

Yes, I’ve noticed that in Lidl (Highlands) the last couple of weeks, possibly because they don’t do home delivery. In fact, last week they were giving away dozens of large boxes of eggs for free although they still had several days before the bb date. Never seen them do that before.

Sadly only seen one other person without a mask in there in the last three weeks. The staff are very friendly though and I’ve not been given any grief by anyone else but the store is never very busy so easy to keep out of folk’s way.

69074 ▶▶ Scots lass, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #367 of 694 🔗

Yes, I’ve noticed that in Lidl (Highlands) the last couple of weeks, possibly because they don’t do home delivery. In fact, last week they were giving away dozens of large boxes of eggs for free although they still had several days before the bb date. Never seen them do that before.

Sadly only seen one other person without a mask in there in the last three weeks. The staff are very friendly though and I’ve not been given any grief by anyone else but the store is never very busy so easy to keep out of folk’s way.

68987 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 1, #368 of 694 🔗

So, masks impact negatively on women more than men….time to encourage the sisters to support a ban….

69034 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to T. Prince, 1, #369 of 694 🔗

Has a peer-reviewed study been done into this, or is it more of the usual feminist tripe?

69005 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 1, #370 of 694 🔗

Can anybody shed on any light on the ‘story’ I heard today. Apparently PHE are now including positive antibody results in the C19 infection statistics. This can’t be true, your now part of the 2nd wave even though you had the disease months ago? Please tell me it isn’t true?

69008 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mike Collins, #371 of 694 🔗

Just like Spain does? Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, but don’t know for certain.

69015 ▶▶ matt, replying to Mike Collins, #372 of 694 🔗

Hasn’t one of that idiot’s childish “pillars” always been antibody tests?

69037 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 2, #373 of 694 🔗

Looks like Pillars 3 and 4 are:

  • Pillar 1: NHS and PHE Testing – swab testing in Public Health England (PHE) labs and NHS hospitals for those with a clinical need, and health and care workers
  • Pillar 2: Commercial partner testing – swab testing for the wider population, as set out in government guidance – this includes in-person tests processed and tests sent out
  • Pillar 3: Antibody testing – serology testing to show if people have antibodies from having had COVID-19
  • Pillar 4: Surveillance testing – serology and swab testing for national surveillance supported by PHE, ONS, Biobank, universities and other partners to learn more about the prevalence and spread of the virus and for other testing research purposes, for example on the accuracy and ease of use of home testing


3 & 4 a small proportion, but still nonsense to include them as it is counting apples with oranges. Bastards. And of course they don’t break the positive cases down by Pillar, so a lot of the positives could be for antibodies.

Split for today of tests done

Pillar 1, 55,096, Pillar 2, 75,515, Pillar 3, 7,128, Pillar 4, 17,207, All pillars, 154,946

69043 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mike Collins, #374 of 694 🔗

The so-called “Pillar 3” and “Pillar 4” tests are not included in the daily case numbers, as far as I can see. “Pillar 3” is antibody testing and “Pillar 4” is a mixture of antigen and antibody testing. Only “Pillar 1” and “Pillar 2” are included and they are both swab antigen tests. Whoever thought of the word “pillar” to describe these tests, FFS!

69069 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Tenchy, #375 of 694 🔗

That idiot made it up off the cuff in one of the daily press briefings while he was trying to explain his testing strategy in April, when nobody believed he was going to hit his 100,000 daily target and everyone still thought that testing people somehow magically cured people (“look at Germany and Korea”). And then inexplicably everyone swallowed it and ever since, people have been pretending that it means something.

69259 ▶▶ steve, replying to Mike Collins, 1, #376 of 694 🔗

Same in the USA. Trump fired the cdc for doing the same thing making numbers look bad

“So now that Trump has said hospitals need to report numbers to WH instead of the CDC, the CDC just came out & said they made another “mistake” in FL; And they’ve also been counting Pneumonia & Flu as Covid– dropping their # from approx 90,000 to 11,000.
So many “mistakes,” huh?


69282 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to steve, 1, #377 of 694 🔗

90,000 to 11,000 is not a mistake – it’s deliberate falsification of statistics! And a huge one at that..

69006 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 26, #378 of 694 🔗

Went to Tesco Express earlier

Good news. Only 50% of people were wearing masks

Bad news. There was only me and one other bloke in there

Actual good news. A lot of people I know aren’t wearing masks and have had no problem in any shop.

69030 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Hubes, 1, #379 of 694 🔗


69010 ted, 9, #380 of 694 🔗

Hmmm … remember all that talk about keeping health care workers safe, it turns out that their immune systems were already doing that … no worries, only 30-40 million people here in the US lost their jobs, and all public institutions are now smashed beyond recognition … but you know, “we are all in this together!” See the news link below (also note this is a local reported, not the national associated propaganda (AP) outlet.


69024 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 8, #381 of 694 🔗

Am I right in thinking that if you visit Sweden you must quarantine for 14 days on your return? If so, why is this? Today in Sweden, 27 positive tests and no deaths. Denmark had 57 positive tests and one death.

69039 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 16, #382 of 694 🔗

I think we all know why – to punish, and to make sure people don’t go there and realise life can go on

69055 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Julian, 3, #383 of 694 🔗

Bastards, aren’t they. Our holiday to Portugal has been scuppered so we were looking for a city break; maybe Copenhagen, maybe Stockholm (which Mrs Tenchy has yet to visit). But no, not allowed!

69040 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tenchy, 10, #384 of 694 🔗

Because Sweden screwed up and people are dropping like flies. You can’t walk down a single street in Stockholm without clambering over piles of corpses.

69120 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 3, #385 of 694 🔗

Lol… according to yesterday’s stats here, there had been no new hospital admissions for Covid in Stockholm since Friday 🙂

69067 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 1, #386 of 694 🔗

Is UK allowing return of any defector from Sweden?

69121 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 4, #387 of 694 🔗

I’d like to visit my family in the UK, but to be honest having read what it is like over there at the moment, I’m minded to stay here!

69144 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #388 of 694 🔗

Swedes are advised not to make non-necessary visits to the UK until 12th August as things stand. If we travel against the regulations then travel insurance is invalidated.. Not sure about quarantine?

69335 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Carrie, 1, #389 of 694 🔗

Haha, the irony of Swedes being advised not to visit the UK.

69346 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #390 of 694 🔗

I wouldn’t advise anybody to visit the UK, it’s horrible.

69047 Mrs Two-Six, replying to Mrs Two-Six, 8, #391 of 694 🔗

I wrote to Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Wilko and M&S registering my opinion on the mask wearing measures in shops. Replies from the first three. Tesco – Thank you for taking the time to contact our Chief Exectutive’s office. I have been asked to respond on his behalf.
I understand your concerns regarding face coverings. Not wearing a face covering will be a criminal offence with a fixed penalty notice. However, Tesco, and our colleagues, are not required to enforce this law.
From Friday 24 July, in line with new government guidelines, customers will need to wear a face covering when visiting our stores in England. This guidance has already been introduced in Scotland.
We will continue to follow government advice and so will be strongly encouraging colleagues and customers to wear face coverings. There may be some colleagues and customers who are not wearing coverings, for example due to a health condition, or if they are already working behind a protective screen.
We also continue to have social distancing guidelines in place within our stores, as well as a number of other measures to help our customers to shop safely, including:

  • Floor markings in our car parks will help you to maintain safe distances when queuing. I NEED FLOOR MARKINGS I DO
  • Where necessary, we will limit the flow of people coming into our stores to ensure they don’t get too congested. I ALWAYS FEEL REALLY CONGESTED WHEN I SHOP IN TESCO
  • Hand sanitisers are being placed around our stores for customers and colleagues to use, as well as extra cleaning products to wipe down your trolley or basket. MAYBE MY FACE, ARMPITS..
  • We have protective screens at our checkouts. I LIKE LICKING THINGS
  • Where possible, we have created separate entrances and exits to our stores, so that it’s easier to keep a safe distance from other shoppers. YEAH, THE TWATS

These are challenging times and we’re doing everything we can to support our colleagues and customers.

On behalf of the Chief Executive’s Office

I feel so much better – now I know why I always felt so UNSAFE shopping in Tesco

69125 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mrs Two-Six, 4, #392 of 694 🔗

I thought not wearing a mask was a civil offence, not a criminal one, hence why the Police can’t arrest you for it???

69174 ▶▶ davews, replying to Mrs Two-Six, #393 of 694 🔗

No mention of exemption at all in there. I double checked the signs outside their stores today, there needs to be a line ‘unless you are exempted’.. I seem to remember you mentioned that in your original letter, it has been ignored.
By the way I noticed today one of the TFL signs on the underground had ‘unless exempted’.

69054 assoc, replying to assoc, 3, #394 of 694 🔗

Have I misunderstood? Surely you can’t vaccinate a person against a disease once they’ve had it? This thing is a pandemic and everyone, or almost everyone, is going to be exposed, sooner rather than later.

69071 ▶▶ Mark, replying to assoc, 3, #395 of 694 🔗

Excellent interview of immunologist Prof Dr Beda Stadler on Ivor Cummings’ channel covers a lot of the ground re immunity and vaccination:

Ep91 Emeritus Professor of Immunology…Reveals Crucial Viral Immunity Reality

69085 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 2, #396 of 694 🔗

It’s brilliant. Considering mass emailing out the link.

69090 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #397 of 694 🔗

Agreed. Cummings has produced some great stuff from right back near the beginning of all this, and Stadler both knows his stuff and makes most of the key points well in the course of this interview. I’ve passed it out to a couple of intelligent friends who are not slow to fight back if they see anything they disagree with. Will be interesting to see if they come back with any substantive criticism.

69096 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, #398 of 694 🔗

I’ve not watched him religiously, but I’ve seen a few of his and they’ve been consistently very good (John Lee and Michael Levitt, I think).

Stupid thing to say, but his face gets on my nerves for some reason. Otherwise, always good stuff.

(I did say it was a stupid thing to say)

69100 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, -1, #399 of 694 🔗

LOL! Impressive tan, anyway….

69101 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, -1, #400 of 694 🔗

It may be exactly that.

69338 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ GLT, replying to matt, #401 of 694 🔗

I listen to him whilst walking dogs…works apart from the graphs.

69126 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to assoc, #402 of 694 🔗

Good question! Except that you’d likely have to take an antibody test, during which they can nick your DNA…

69135 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to assoc, -1, #403 of 694 🔗

The line is that it will mutate like seasonal flu. So yes, they can vaccinate.

69066 Polemon2, 14, #404 of 694 🔗

Passed through our local village today. Had to send thre eMails and one Facebook post to shopowners to remind them that their signs indicating compulsory mask wearing with no reference to legitimate exemptions risks prosecution for disability discrimination.
Others might wish to do the same – I wait to see if it has any effect!!

69076 Mark H, replying to Mark H, 14, #405 of 694 🔗

Shopping in Scotland, the land of the masked believers.

Lidl, once a fairly balanced place to shop during the darkest days of lockdown, has presented me on my last 3 trips there with 100% mask compliance. Apart from me.

Last week they’d introduced a table at the inner doors with hand sanitiser and a disinfectant spray, and, while there was no queue outside, there was a queue to use this new arrangement. I waited all of 2 seconds before loudly saying “excuse me” and edging past the huddle of mask wearers who suddenly need to sanitise in a shop that hadn’t previously offered this option. I grabbed a wheeled basket and started my shop.

Being the only unmasked person in the shop on my last few visits felt very strange, very social-experimental, but I’ve become more relaxed with breeching the social and moral norms. I’m aware of the death stares I’ve had on each occasion. That burning feeling in the back of your head that makes you turn around, to be met by a socially distanced glower over the top of a piece of damp fabric.

But what’s it like to actually wear a mask while you shop?

Well, last week I didn’t have a choice. I needed some puppy supplies urgently and decided to give the small, independent pet shop my business. At the door the proprietor asked me if I had a mask. I didn’t. She got me one. I didn’t argue. I put it on.

She had one on also, and while she tried various different harnesses on my puppy, she complained about struggling to breathe in the mask…

Business done, I popped down to Lidl, the mask sitting on the passenger seat of my car. I debated it and then decided to try shopping in a supermarket with a mask on.

I was hyper aware of my breathing and my face under the mask became itchy and irritated after a few minutes. But the strange thing is what happened at the till when the cashier asked if I wanted a receipt. I found I couldn’t answer him. I had to actually force myself to speak the words “no, thanks”.

Very strange. Muzzled, indeed.

Since then I’ve paid for my fuel, no mask, no fucks given. Popped into Scotmid on a few occasions, no mask, no fucks given.

I was stood behind someone I knew, but hadn’t seen for years, in the queue outside the bakery. She was wearing a mask. I wasn’t. It was outdoors, after all. She turned around, recognised me, I didn’t recognise her. Until she spoke. She kept her mask on, of course.

One final observation, again from Lidl. A woman came into the shop at the same time as me with her no-more-than 3 year old daughter. The woman was wearing a mask and said to her child “I know you don’t need to wear this, but put it on anyway”, before strapping a mask to the wee kid’s face.

In Scotland, the land of the masked, the people love their Dear Leader and they
love to show their obedience to her. To do otherwise just isn’t Scottish.

69087 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mark H, #406 of 694 🔗


69098 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark H, 1, #407 of 694 🔗

Excellent account thanks. Just as it is I’m afraid 100% supermarket masking. Better in the smaller shops for less laser looks. Thanks for writing.

69107 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Mark H, 8, #408 of 694 🔗

The social order has collapsed for now, so you are not violating it by not wearing a mask. As for violating the moral order by doing same, certainly not. Masks are dehumanising and expecting people to wear them is most definitely immoral (and in violation of the Human Rights Act and no doubt the Universal Declaration of Human Rights too).

69221 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 6, #409 of 694 🔗

The moral thing to do is to ignore this law, I’m convinced of it.

69132 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mark H, #410 of 694 🔗

Lidl Sweden are marketing masks in their weekly flyers and TV adverts… but very few people are wearing masks here – just the obviously frail/ill and some Asian students. I wonder if Lidl are assuming Sweden will eventually adopt masks, or are just trying to encourage it and make money at the same time?

No other Swedish supermarkets sell masks – yet…

69324 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Carrie, 1, #411 of 694 🔗

“I wonder if Lidl are assuming Sweden will eventually adopt masks,

Not looking like it if Tegnell’s latest is any guide: “‘With numbers diminishing very quickly in Sweden, we see no point in wearing a face mask in Sweden, not even on public transport.’”

69182 ▶▶ James007, replying to Mark H, #412 of 694 🔗

I had the same situation today down here in Surrey – an independent shop – “do you have a mask? No? Here’s one!”

This evening 100% compliance in my local supermarket. To be honest I went in with the mask I was given earlier in the day. Took it off halfway round. Odd feeling. I felt very awkward being the only face. Next time I will be more bold and not wear it at all!
Interesting to hear how compliant Scotland the Brave are. From down here it can seem like much of independence support seems to be about hate for Westminster, the evil Torys, and it is about time Scotland was free of them both. Yet this “evil Tory” nannying UK government, has a lot in common with the SNP on Covid! (Its just Scotland has been getting things done more quickly). Is the Scottish tyrant keen to be more controlling, more hysterical she can be, to show how much better she would do things, after she gets her 2nd referendum?

69239 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to Mark H, 2, #413 of 694 🔗

Popped down to Cairngorm, then over to the West Coast. The mask situation in all establishments I have visited is ‘on’ when compliance required, but ‘off’ everywhere/when else possible.
The bollocks factor is queing and availability in restaurants etc, which are limited by numbers and anti-social distancing mandates etc.

We went on a ‘canyoning’ trip. No masks or distancing. In theory required in transit, but no enforcement. Similarly for a quad bike thing.
Anytime a safety briefing et al required, the mask was off.
During the event people walked and talked in proximity, like normal.
At no point did I get the sense that anyone was genually covid-concerned. More of a resigned, ‘well – rules is rules’ British thing.
Depressing but reassuring at the same time.

69285 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to GetaGrip, 1, #414 of 694 🔗

My mum is a bit like that – she thinks all the measures are OTT, but is going along with them, eg wearing a mask to set an example to the young, that one should obey rules and not engage in law-breaking (despite me pointing out that these are guidelines, not criminal law..). This despite her also having a major heart and lung condition and therefore being exempt – I despair…

69328 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 1, #415 of 694 🔗

This would ordinarily be my position too and it _is_ an instinctively British way of thinking. But the problem with bad, nonsensical, unenforceable and unenforceable law, is that it starts people thinking that maybe other laws are not worth following. That’s the reason I think this one must be resisted to the point where it’s abandoned very quickly indeed.

69360 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #416 of 694 🔗

Exactly. It’s been argued that the reason Britain was traditionally law abiding was that we had fewer laws and therefore took the ones we had more seriously. That’s why a law should never be imposed lightly.

69078 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, #417 of 694 🔗

The study of people over 6ft suggests that masks may actually be more useful to deal with aerosol transmission:


69178 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, 2, #418 of 694 🔗

Why the down votes? I posted a fact about what the study says about face masks. Toby only linked to a media article and didn’t say why the study means masks are useless. I’m agnostic about whether masks are useful outside hospitals, but let’s at least report what studies say correctly.

69248 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Montag Smith, #419 of 694 🔗

No idea mate, probably Cos the article is just more coronabollox. Probably not a personal down vote. I’ll give you a thumbs up for asking 😉

69254 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Montag Smith, #420 of 694 🔗

So basically they’re using the presumption that tall people get covid more to base another assumption on?

Yeah ok.

69326 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Montag Smith, 2, #421 of 694 🔗

There was a lot of information suggesting that aerosol transmission was likely and that the virus could hang in the air for hours. This was right around the time Scotland mandated mask wearing in shops.

I remember commenting that if that was the case then a mask would be useless as you would become infected as soon as you walk into infected air and breathed it in. Given that air tends to spread out and not hang in stasis, simply removing your mask at any point would likely render you infected.

The discussion on transmission conveniently changed to droplets soon after to justify the useage of masks.

69086 Mark, 1, #422 of 694 🔗

CNN showing that for them being journalists is only important because it gives them a platform from which to suppress political dissent and harass people they dislike or who are expressing opinions they dislike:

Don Jr. speaks out about temporary Twitter ban on ‘Tucker Carlson Tonight’
And here’s a rare case where the woke media bullies were caught out harassing someone they dislike politically with false accusations of “racist” “hatecrime”:

Washington Post settles Covington student’s defamation lawsuit

“62% of Americans say they have political views they’re afraid to share”

“Only staunch liberals felt comfortable enough to share their opinions out loud”

Because you are very unlikely to lose your job or lose business by expressing a leftist opinion, even a grossly hate-filled one such as supporting BLM lies, but you absolutely are likely to be punished for expressing a conservative opinion, or one that resists the woke narrative. Toby has kept a list of some of the higher profile cases of people punished merely for questioning the BLM dogmas, or even merely for being associated with someone who does so.

69088 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 2, #423 of 694 🔗

So Twitter, Facebook You Tube etc decided to take down the video of the American doctors.

Maybe a look at the major shareholders of these media platforms can give some clues as to their decision-making on certain key issues of the day.

Twitter : Top two shareholders – Vanguard and Blackrock

Facebook : Top two shareholders: Vanguard and Blackrock

You Tube (owned by Google, whose parent company is Alphabet Inc.). Alphabet’s top two shareholders: Vanguard and Blackrock

Shareholders of some major US Pharmaceuticals:

Major Shareholders in Johnson & Johnson include – Vanguard Group (more than 13%); Blackrock; State Street

Major Shareholders in Pfizer Inc. include – Vanguard Group (more than 13%); Blackrock; State Street

Major Shareholders in Merck & Co ., Inc. include – Vanguard (more than 14%); Blackrock; State Street; Wellington; Capital; Price (T.Rowe):

Major Shareholders in Abbott Laboratories include – Vanguard (more than 14.5%); Blackrock; Capital; State Street; Wellington:

Major Shareholders in Eli Lilly and Company include – Vanguard (more than 18%); Lilly Endowment, Inc (more than 11%); Blackrock; Wellington; Primecap; State Street:

Major Shareholders in Gilead Sciences, Inc. include – Vanguard (more than 12.5%); Blackrock; State Street; Capital; FMR (Fidelity)

(Credit to ‘Firestarter’ at Ron Paul forums for doing the legwork to dig all of this information up: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?517340-BlackRock-Vanguard-State-Street-own-the-US&p=6638718&viewfull=1#post6638718 )

Unsurprisingly, both Vanguard and Blackrock are major shareholders in most the other companies that control over 90% of US media.

Here’s a short video about Blackrock ( BlackRock – The company that owns the world? )

As regards WHO’s ‘donations’ from the drugs and pharma industries, this site has some revealing details:


69152 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Humanity First, #424 of 694 🔗

Vanguard and Blackrock are asset management companies. They will invest in “quality” companies. That is, companies who will make the most money for their investors. I like these companies – some of my pension funds are invested with them, and they are good performers.

69170 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Humanity First, 2, #425 of 694 🔗

In fairness, most of those “assets” are owned on behalf of others, including pension funds. However, I will accept that the management of these firms will have significant influence over the companies they invest in on behalf of others.

69253 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Humanity First, #426 of 694 🔗

Blackrock now running the newly combined US Treasury/Federal Reserve and is rumoured to have taken $385 billion out of it as payment.

69091 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 17, #427 of 694 🔗

The latest fear porn from The Independent: “ But scientists fear young people enjoying their summer will be hit next – as was the case with the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic.” With a few honourable exceptions (Toby being top of the list) it seems to me most journalists are fucking cretins.

69110 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #428 of 694 🔗

Funny that only young people died from Spanish flu and only old die from this (as broad generalisations – obviously there are exceptions), so they’re speaking from their arses as usual.

69219 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #429 of 694 🔗

There were two waves of Spanish ‘flu. The first was particularly bad for the very young and the old, the second seemed to hit people in their prime worse. They were very probably not actually the same disease.

69251 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to matt, 1, #430 of 694 🔗

As far as we know, both waves are indeed the same variant – H1N1 – but the reason I gave to DDS above is the reason different age groups were affected. And because the second wave affected the young disproportionately, modern epidemiologists are assuming this will follow the same pattern.

This unqualified armchair polymath (in my own fevered imagination at least) predicts with 99.9999999% confidence that any “second wave” of covid will not act this way.

69255 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, #431 of 694 🔗

I agree, wasn’t that second wave a mutation relating to the War logistics? Of course, flus mutuate much faster/easier.

69260 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DRW, 1, #432 of 694 🔗

The second wave seems to have been brought back from the trenches, one way or another. They traced (god knows how) the origin back to a farm in I think Kansas – rural US anyway – and it was almost certainly brought to Europe by a GI.

As someone else has said here in the last day or so, it wasn’t remotely Spanish, but the countries in the war had a press embargo on it and Spain (neutral) didn’t.

69274 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to matt, #433 of 694 🔗

I thought so. Wasn’t another detail that the mildly infected stayed on the frontlines, whilst the badly infected were sent to crowded hospital trenches? So the worse strain got to spread more?

69318 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DRW, 1, #434 of 694 🔗

Yes, but let’s face it – people had reason to be a little better at dealing with the concept of death then than they are now.

69242 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 2, #435 of 694 🔗

It’s generally believed that the first wave of Spanish flu was mild because of an earlier epidemic in c.1890 meant most people had already been exposed to flu. Those who were too young for that epidemic were still, mostly, in France.

When the second wave (potentially just an expansion of the first) came, most of the soldiers were home again, vulnerable to flu. And, without any immune defence against flu, died.

I have no idea how this 1918 epidemic affected young women, as I assume most of those were in the UK for the first wave, working in factories and so on.

69111 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #436 of 694 🔗

Much worse than cretins

69134 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Hammer Onats, #437 of 694 🔗

The 1918 “Spanish” flu seems to have been bacterial pneumonia which strikes people down in their prime unlike viral flu which goes for the feeble. There is an interesting article – some people might find it a bit conspiratorial – but the fact that bacterial meningitis vaccines made from a vaccine serum derived from horses were administered to American soldiers in a camp in Kansas in the first months of 1918 and these soldiers then went abroad to fight in the trenches is a documented fact.

69148 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jane in France, 3, #438 of 694 🔗

Aspirin is believed the have been the major killer in the second phase, as it was a new drug so doses weren’t know, this overdosing patients.

69169 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Hammer Onats, 4, #439 of 694 🔗

Watch out for the next set of petty rules designed to stop young people enjoying their summer….

69184 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Hammer Onats, 3, #440 of 694 🔗

How can they possibly equate this to the Spanish flu?!

69226 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #441 of 694 🔗

Funny how the people saying it’s just like the Spanish flu are the selfsame people saying but it’s not just a flu, isn’t it?

69258 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #442 of 694 🔗

Has a similar kill rate of ordinary flu we get fairly often these days, at <0.1%. Spanish flu was a little more virulent at ~0.5%. UK population c.45 million, 228k deaths.

69314 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nick Rose, #443 of 694 🔗

WE know that, but the people saying those two contradictory things with no recognition that they are contradictory don’t want to know about it.

69247 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Hammer Onats, #444 of 694 🔗

Oh believe me, they are.

They just love the drama. THEY CAN’T LIVE WITHOUT IT.

69312 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #445 of 694 🔗

Except it’s not flu and it’s 2020 not 1918.

69094 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 4, #446 of 694 🔗

‘With numbers diminishing very quickly in Sweden, we see no point in wearing a face mask in Sweden, not even on public transport.’
– Sweden’s state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell .

‘All of a sudden the numbers have got bigger, but in fact they’ve been growing slowly over the past month or two… There isn’t a particular trigger – it’s just part of that process of exponential growth.’
Graham Medley , professor of infectious diseases modelling at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, discussing the growth of infections across Europe.

2 quotes from my evening email from The Spectator. One very sensible and the other complete b****cks. Can you tell which is which, children?

If Graham Medley had been paying attention at York University where he studied Biology and Computer Science or at Imperial College where he did a PhD in Epidemiology, he would have learned the meaning of exponential growth- and would know that is not what is happening now! He is now a mathematical modeller in infectious diseases and a member of SAGE and so presumably has lost all connection with the reality!

69103 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to DocRC, #447 of 694 🔗

I get that email from the Spectator too. The blend of irrational and rational is quite jarring.

69109 ▶▶ Julian, replying to DocRC, #448 of 694 🔗

He is unable to speak English in coherent sentences

69102 DJ Dod, replying to DJ Dod, 4, #449 of 694 🔗

I wonder why Dr Stella Immanuel is being branded a ‘witch doctor’? Surely it can’t be because she is black? Or do her views mean she deserves racist abuse?

69145 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to DJ Dod, 2, #450 of 694 🔗

Precious Ramotswe more like.

69146 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 1, #451 of 694 🔗

The TV series of those novels was great!

69225 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to DJ Dod, #452 of 694 🔗

I also think the focus on Asians in our own Midland and Northern towns is borderline racism. Why has this suddenly become OK?

69245 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to DJ Dod, #453 of 694 🔗

There is a serious witch hunt in the headlines tonight. All focussed on her but also that arranged by Pro Trump group.

69104 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #454 of 694 🔗

Just watching the CEOs of Apple, Facebook, Amazon & Alphabet (Google) facing congress.

Couldn’t find a direct link, watching via BBC website.

69108 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #455 of 694 🔗

Questioning is directly telated to covid censoringon facebook. Zuckerberg answering live.

69113 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, #456 of 694 🔗

Found a link for anyone interested who does not have access to The BBC:


69172 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, #457 of 694 🔗

Oh wait he has just crashed, his eyes have gone, hit the BUTTON and reset him FASTS

69191 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, #458 of 694 🔗

Those wily techniques of zoom or whatever eh?!
See them be prompted by interns working their behinds off out of shot by the way.

69124 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 5, #460 of 694 🔗

ONS mortality statistics for week 29: COVID-19 related: 295, ‘flu and pneumonia: 879, all-cause: 8823, so COVID-19 amounts for 3.34%! Let’s all run around like headless chickens


69133 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to IMoz, 1, #461 of 694 🔗

And most of those will be WITH covid rather than FROM covid.

69139 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Tenchy, 1, #462 of 694 🔗

You’re being way too generous: ONS expressly state they conflate U07.1 code (lab confirmed COVID-19) and U07.2 code (clinical or epidemiological diagnosis, i. e. hunch because COVID-19 signs and symptoms are so unique, right?)

69181 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to IMoz, 3, #463 of 694 🔗

How are all these people still getting flu since social distancing, masks and all that gubbins are the only thing stopping covid?

69192 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to A. Contrarian, #464 of 694 🔗

I think it relates back to something someone wrote on an earlier post about ‘the illusion of control’ the powers that be seem convinced they can be in the controlling seat but I am not sure these viruses have read the script!

69213 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #465 of 694 🔗

The simple explanation: those measures don’t work. Long explanation: there was a man who dedicated his life to understanding how influenza was transmitted and so forth, he even wrote a book, aptly titled “The Transmission of Epidemic Influenza.” That man’s name was Robert Edgar Hope-Simpson, he was a GP… But why bother reading someone else’s work when you can make it up as you go along?…

69130 Tenchy, 11, #466 of 694 🔗

Dutch government will not advise public to wear masks (The Telegraph coronavirus live feed):

The Dutch government said it will not advise the public to wear masks to slow the spread of coronavirus, asserting that scientific evidence of their effectiveness is mixed.

The decision was announced by Minister for Medical Care Tamara van Ark after a review by the country’s National Institute for Health (RIVM).

The government will instead seek more adherence to social distancing rules after a surge in coronavirus cases in the country this week, Van Ark said at a press conference in The Hague.

Incidentally; the aforementioned “surge” amounts to 1301 cases in the last week. Previous weeks’ case numbers were 927, 452, 421 and 551. So yes, a small increase (Netherlands population is 17.3 million), but how many tests are being carried out (I couldn’t find the data)?

69138 Nigel Sherratt, #467 of 694 🔗

‘Apocalypse Meow’ was excellent, Simpsons in its heyday. The clip cut off before the full list of standard symptoms, most indistinguishable from a hangover as our host has pointed out. “ Mistah Covid – he dead ” ‘ A penny for the Old Guy’.

69142 Bart Simpson, 8, #468 of 694 🔗

My adventures with Mr Bart regarding the NHS Test and Trace:

  1. Went for a coffee in a restaurant in Sloane Square while killing time before going to Chelsea Physic Garden. While we’re having our drinkss, waiter arrives with a form and pen asking us to fill our details for the T&T. Mr Bart politely but firmly tells waiter that we do not consent. Waiter went “that’s not a problem” and left us to enjoy our coffee
  2. Ended up in a Weatherspoon’s pub. Greeted by waiter who told us to help ourselves to the paper menus, told us to sit wherever we wanted and order at the bar when we’re ready. No mention of test and trace. Had the manager’s special which was fish & chips for £3.99!!!

PS. Chelsea Physic Garden wasn’t busy and the shop was dead – did go in to have a look at the seeds for sale, I wasn’t muzzled but no-one approached me. Other people were simply bypassing the shop to go to the toilet then the exit.

69143 theelrushbo, #469 of 694 🔗

ScIeNcE aNd DaTa gUyS…


2005 study showing chloroquine effective against SARS-COV … weird..

69147 GetaGrip, replying to GetaGrip, 5, #470 of 694 🔗

Interesting stuff about being tall and coronavirus risk.
Although you do wonder if the scientists involved could be employed more productively.

So, any bets as to if Sturgeon imposes a Crouching in Public Places Regulation before the UK Government?

69173 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to GetaGrip, #471 of 694 🔗

I thought you already had to genuflect every time you even so much as thought about Nicola Sturgeon.

69153 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, #472 of 694 🔗

That frontline doctors group should have vetted their speakers better. I suspect they thought the presence of Ms. Immanuel would break up the monochrome effect that was caused by the skin tone of the rest of the speakers and their lab coats. She came off awfully: ranting, incoherent, provocative, zealous. Not synonyms for rational argument you may agree. She forgot the word for ‘H’ in the acronym of NIH, ‘Health’, not a good look for a doctor. The facial expressions of the rest of the group speak volumes, and one leaves the scene obviously attempting too late to disassociate himself from the car crash he was watching unfold. She had to be stopped by the boss doctor though nobody else was. I can see exactly why the video was banned based just on her assertions. The rest make a balanced sensible case.

69283 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Edgar Friendly, 5, #473 of 694 🔗

Disagree with your take profoundly, her passion for the dispossessed was very moving. The death toll in the third world will exceeed (briefly) that from the denial of the affordable electricity that we take for granted.

69364 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #474 of 694 🔗

She only talked about saving American lives from Covid, and nothing about electricity shortages. Not sure why you equate her testimony with the third world.

69358 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Edgar Friendly, 2, #475 of 694 🔗

I would agree that the rest of the docs presented a very balanced view. It’s a shame that their contributions are not the ones doing the rounds or being shown. The actual conference was well worth the watch.

69375 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to FiFiTrixabelle, #476 of 694 🔗

Yeah, i listened to the whole thing. It is quite good. Can see why it was memory-holed, as i say above. I also made another connection later on when the original hydroxy proponent Dr. Todaro showed up. He’s basically persona non grata no. 1 as far as US medicine is concerned and is effectively kryptonite to social media companies (not that they are superheroes, poor analogy).

69156 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 8, #477 of 694 🔗

Looking forward to tomorrow evening. Having dinner with Two-Six and Mrs Two-Six to discuss all things sceptical

69164 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, 3, #478 of 694 🔗

and collect your FREE badge!

69195 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, 3, #479 of 694 🔗

Enjoy!!!! Regards to you, Two-Six and Mrs Two-Six!

69307 ▶▶▶ Mrs Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #480 of 694 🔗

Roger that, and to you x

69203 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 4, #481 of 694 🔗

Wish I could join you! Eat, drink and be merry. Drink damnation to THEM.

69215 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to annie, 3, #482 of 694 🔗

We’ll raise a glass to you all I am sure.

69304 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, #483 of 694 🔗

We might be down your way Annie before its gets chilly, legal bare-face seems appealing.

69302 ▶▶ Mrs Two-Six, replying to Sarigan, #484 of 694 🔗

Looking forward to it too! We’ll be the ones wrapped in bubble wrap stuck inside a zorb ball

69157 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 14, #485 of 694 🔗

I had tickets to attend the British Touring Car Championship at Donington Park this weekend.

I’ve just had an email telling me that it’s been decided that no supporters are now allowed to attend because the Department for Digital, Culture, Media & Sport (DCMS) has classed BTCC as an elite sport just three days before the event.

So much for getting the economy back to normal. This government is just full of a bunch of dicks!

69161 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to JohnB, 1, #486 of 694 🔗

An ‘elite’ sport??? Ie only the ‘elites’ are allowed to attend? One rule for us…

69168 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 1, #487 of 694 🔗

Other elite sport is football, cricket, rugby, which are all in enclosed grounds, but motorsport has the spectators spread over a huge area. The risk of transmission must be tiny.

69179 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to JohnB, #488 of 694 🔗

Probably done it so the football fans don’t kick off.

69183 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #489 of 694 🔗

There’s been events on every weekend since the beginning of July. I’ve been to two of them as it’s one of the places where things seem normal. All these other event are fine to take place, it’s just a for some reason they decided to class this as “elite” three days before, even though the event has been on for months!

69189 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to JohnB, #490 of 694 🔗

Other events at Donington Park, or other BTCC events?

Donington has enough space to allow the crowds without too much worry.

69207 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, #491 of 694 🔗

Just this weeks BTCC. All other events are allowed.

69158 Edgar Friendly, replying to Edgar Friendly, 17, #492 of 694 🔗

Oh, also, today i met my first Covid oberleutnant. I was walking home from the bus stop and passing through an alleyway there was a couple ahead of me walking very slowly. I got within about a metre of the man in front and he heard the sound of my suitcase being rolled towards him, looked around and said “Keep your distance, mate”. My reply being “fuck off”, he then responded “No you fuck off, I’ve got the virus, you don’t want to catch it do you?” to which i said “why are you not staying home then?”, he signalled that he had nothing to reply to that by doing the wanker sign.

They looked like Guardian readers, so no surprises.

69177 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Edgar Friendly, 4, #493 of 694 🔗

You should’ve got your phone put, snapped a pic of him and sent it to the Police as he’s breaking the law isn’t he by not self isolating?

69228 ▶▶▶ Edgar Friendly, replying to JohnB, 2, #494 of 694 🔗

He was wearing a face napkin, obscuring his identity, but not enough to disguise the Grauniad smug halo. And i would rather have punched him than take a snap.

69230 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Edgar Friendly, 1, #495 of 694 🔗

You could have said you were exempt from the virus

69162 annie, replying to annie, 20, #496 of 694 🔗

Rejoice, all ye sceptics!

Ye are privileged to be the first readers of a completely new and original collection of deathless verse from the pen of Annie . Immortality begins here. [cue fanfare]

Covisong of the hen-pecked husband
I was so tired of being nagged,
I used to dream my wife was gagged.
Then I woke up and it was true.
But, alas, they’ve gagged me too.

Covisong of the boy who had a baby brother
Baby wears nappies on his bum,
It troubled nobody but mum.
But nappies turned into a disgrace
When mum put one on my face.
And what I think is quite the worst:
She forgot to wash it first.

Covisong of the Anglican vicar
The C of E has done its best
To keep us all in terror,
But when it comes to Peterkin
I think there’s been an error.
For Peterkin, the silly sod
Has told me that he trusts in God.

Coviconfession of the Catholic priest
I married two the other day,
I did it quite correctly.
No father gave away the bride,
And all were masked perfectly.
I had ten men in Hazmat suits
To disinfect the ring,
I stayed inside my Perspex pod
And let nobody sing.
The bride and groom were muzzled,
No wedding feast was guzzled.
One thing, however, troubles me,
At least I think it’s weird:
The bride, despite her lacy dress,
Had such a bushy beard!
I’m sure their love is true and tender,
But I have doubts about their gender.

69199 ▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 13, #497 of 694 🔗

Two more:

Covinightmare of the Classics don
While I was lecturing on Ovid
My mask fell off, and I got Covid.

Covibadness of Year Nine, who do not respect their teacher
We found it quite an easy task
To put a nettle in his mask.
And, to make us laugh the louder,
We filled his gloves with itching powder.

69373 ▶▶ Sue, replying to annie, #498 of 694 🔗

Brilliant Annie!! 🙂
You are our Lockdown Sceptics’ poet laureate!

69163 Ruth Sharpe, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 17, #499 of 694 🔗

Went for a lunchtime meal today with my parents in a local hotel – first time out in this context. None of us wearing masks, as we are all exempt – my Mum even excused by the doctor! As a result, we weren’t allowed in.

The owner was completely thrown by us turning up without masks. I don’t think it had even crossed her mind that people would not wear them.

We asked her politely how she was going to deal with people without masks, as it is discriminatory not to. She replied that she had a duty to protect her staff – some of whom had vulnerable family at home that needed protecting.

She also said that she had already received complaints from customers about people not wearing masks when they went to the toilet!

I still don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

I should add that we are in Scotland and live in a smallish community, which sadly has embraced mask wearing with relish.

69188 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 9, #500 of 694 🔗

Very sad. This is POISON.

69354 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Two-Six, 1, #501 of 694 🔗

I know. I’m looking forward to a week in Yorkshire in a couple of weeks to compare notes. I’m really hoping that it is just where I live that has fallen hook, line and sinker for the rubbish, which gets more rubbish by the day!

69190 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #502 of 694 🔗

Just got back from my weekly shop at Aldi.

Breezed in maskless, greeter (who doesn’t ever actually greet) ambled gently towards me. I smiled at him, he nodded – maybe smiled back, I could only see his eyes.

Shop quiet as you’d expect at 8pm. Customers all masked.

Staff told to wear masks on shop floor were complying, though one wore his conspicuously as a chin strap. Yay!!

At the checkout, I was joined by three exuberant males, late 30s, buying beer. No masks, no challenge. 🙂

This afternoon I went for a walk in the park. It was busy but nobody was wearing a mask except for one schoolboy, about 15, walking with maskless female friend. Go figure!

69298 ▶▶ Richard, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #503 of 694 🔗

Quick run to local Tesco for BBQ supplie searly this evening – we breezed in without any comment – great to see two or three others wandering around without muzzles plus at least one other keeping firmly around their neck – hopefully inspired by our collective not wearing !!

69193 davews, replying to davews, 6, #504 of 694 🔗

Today’s trip out, another walk in London, 5 miles or so along the Limehouse Cut and Thames. I get my exercise Boris…..
Masks nearly 100% on the trains and bus. I admit I did the same – though noticed coming back that while walking Waterloo East to Waterloo I was a bit breathless, it is very real. Soon took off again once I found myself in a near empty carriage.
Lunch was planned at the Dickens pub at Limehouse but when I arrived the girl at the door (surrounded by loads of sanitiser) said that they weren’t doing food at the moment. Found another pub near London Bridge that did – sanitiser at the door, separate entrance and exit, but no sign of any other COVID measure, not a mask anywhere, and no request for my T&T details. Nice fish and chips and pint but not as cheap as Wetherspoons.

69216 ▶▶ matt, replying to davews, #505 of 694 🔗

Waterloo to limehouse to London Bridge is a bit of a slog!

Which pub near London bridge, Davews?

69235 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to matt, 1, #506 of 694 🔗

There was a bit of tube involved as well…. Waterloo to Bromley-by-Bow on tube, walk down to Limehouse basin, along north bank to St Catherine’s Dock then across Tower Bridge. Train from London Bridge (using ‘London Terminals’ option on ticket). Pub was The Horniman at Hayes, a Nicholson’s pub.

69252 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to davews, 7, #507 of 694 🔗

Thinking of braving public transport to go up to Aldgate tomorrow. The manager of a pub I used to go to a lot sent me a WhatsApp the other day to say they were open and I want to support him and I could also murder a proper pint of something truly hoppy. If they’ve gone nuts over the guidelines (which I doubt) I will provide some free education. Either way – I’ll report back.

69272 ▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to matt, 2, #508 of 694 🔗

Trains six to a carriage at the most. Jubilee line this morning was slightly tight for 2m distancing but a long way from packed. Couple sat opposite were chatting away maskless but put them on when they got off. I feel the dangers of trains have been grossly overhyped and now they really need to get the passenger numbers up again.

69316 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to davews, #509 of 694 🔗

I’ll be overground to cannon St and then walk, most likely. I might take the circle line, but I hate the tube at the best of times. There’ll be nobody to stop me at my local station. Interested to see what happens at cannon st on my way back.

69573 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to davews, #510 of 694 🔗

Everything has been vastly overhyped!

69426 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to davews, #511 of 694 🔗

Ah yes, been there before lockdown. Nice place.

69197 Jane, 6, #512 of 694 🔗

“Third, social media platforms should err on the side of free speech, so in the absence of “proof” that hydroxychloroquine is actually harmful they shouldn’t ban people promoting it.”

Quite apart from the fact that these c omputer nerds are not scientists or doctors.
LIke Bill Gates, they have ZERO competence to determine which statements about potential medical treatments are true or false. We have SCIENTISTS to perform that function Scientists who actually conduct Random Control Trials to eliminate dodgy outcomes. Unlike the BS that is being rammed down our throats concerning mask wearing–for which there is ZERO scientific evidence.

The precautionary principle would mandate *not* demonizing and discarding a strong candidate as a potential treatment but instead to support RCTs, to generate reliable, replicable data.

Oh, no time for that!! That might get in the way of the Operation Warp Speed time line for rolling out vaccines to the public without adequate testing and RCTs.

And how about the U-turn on vitamin D?
Two months ago methinks vitamin D was in the HC “witch doctor” category.
No longer, it seems.

These people truly speak with forked tongues. Speaking of which, white kind of racist dog whistling is to call a Black American pphysician a witch doctor? I won’t even comment on the use of the word “brand,” which commonly refers to how we permanently mark and identify animals we own—as opposed to merely saying “has been called a witch doctor.”


Thank you, Toby, for so articulately calling out the double talk and forked-tonguery.

If I had a pound account I would donate.

69202 richard riewer, 1, #513 of 694 🔗

I just posted the BitChute link to my Face account.
Here it is again:

69206 Major Panic, 9, #514 of 694 🔗

I’m at work but it’s quiet so I thought I’d nip down to Sainsbury’s to buy a few bits and kill some time.

There was a police car outside, engine running, waiting for an officer inside. I hand sanitiser as respect to others and walked.

Everyone was nappied up, including the officer at the self service checkout. Someone behind me mumbled something like “doesn’t apply to you then”, in a weak pathetic voice.

I ignored him, got my stuff, paid and left. The police car was long gone, presumably in search of some real crime.

(Fair do’s to dibble nappying up when he didn’t need to)

69236 Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #515 of 694 🔗

Greggs boss says he won’t pay staff stuck in quarantine after travelling abroad

The CEO of the popular bakery chain told the BBC that Greggs employees “can’t expect the company to pay” if they have to quarantine


69294 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Basics, 2, #516 of 694 🔗

Good maybe this sort of thing will piss people off enough to open their eyes.

69237 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #517 of 694 🔗


Paywall – summary here:

Cambridge scientists fear coronavirus second wave as ‘R’ rate rises across UK

South-east and south-west regions now thought to be above ‘R1’, meaning virus is spreading exponentially.

Laura Donnelly, our Health Editor, and Gordon Rayner, our Political Editor, have more:

Fears of a second wave of coronavirus in the UK have been raised by Cambridge University scientists, who have warned that the reproduction ‘R’ rate is now close to one in every part of the country.

Four out of seven English regions have seen a rise in the rate of infections, with the south-east and south-west now thought to be above ‘R1’, meaning the virus is spreading exponentially.

NHS leaders have said there is “a very high” level of concern about a looming spike in cases, as well as worries about how the health service will cope this winter.

Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, is said to be worried that a second wave could arrive in the next fortnight after warning that it is already happening across Europe.

They are just never going to let go of this. Bugger off the lot of you!

69240 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Tenchy, 9, #518 of 694 🔗

So face masks don’t work?..

69243 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to IMoz, 4, #519 of 694 🔗

It’s all my fault. I live in the south east and I’ve not been wearing a mask. Presumably, one of us is in the south west too.

69249 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to matt, 1, #520 of 694 🔗

Don’t give them ideas :p

69273 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to matt, 1, #521 of 694 🔗

Ooops that’ll be me. Sorry.

69246 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to IMoz, 5, #522 of 694 🔗

If cases continue to rise it will simply be said the rise would be greater without the face masks. If they fall it will all be down to the face masks!

69250 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 7, #523 of 694 🔗

I’m really worried the’ll create a “second wave” through manipulation and MSM sensationalism just to keep the fear up.

69264 ▶▶ Will, replying to Tenchy, 6, #524 of 694 🔗

Complete and utter bollocks the lot of it.

69278 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Will, 1, #525 of 694 🔗

Sadly this shit seems to stick.

69265 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Tenchy, #526 of 694 🔗

Depressing, is it true?

69322 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Tenchy, 2, #527 of 694 🔗

It’s true that R is about 1. So what? That’s where it is going to be forever.

69327 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Tenchy, 2, #528 of 694 🔗

They can’t accurately calculate R values, and this stupid excuse for a ‘deadly’ virus has never spread exponentially. There needs to be a reckoning after this.

69336 ▶▶ James007, replying to Tenchy, #529 of 694 🔗

Leaving aside the fact that the number of infections is the wrong thing to measure (because it’s obvious they will go up when you allow people to go back to work…. those that have jobs still), how do they take into account rising number of tests?

69395 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Tenchy, #530 of 694 🔗

People using the word ‘exponentially’ need to have a long hard look at themselves. They know full well the general public think that it means ‘out of control, growing at an incredible pace’, which is plainly is not

69256 End of Tether, replying to End of Tether, 14, #531 of 694 🔗

I’d like to recommend to fellow sceptics a holiday in Greece this summer. (I don’t often post but have followed avidly since the start) I’m here now with family in Santorini. I’d been nervous about the trip over here re mask wearing and potential quarantine. However it couldn’t have been easier – I wore a mask on my chin through Heathrow and on flight with no challenge. In Greece there were no Covid checks at the airport. Now we are here I feel a huge weight off my shoulders – being in the UK was really getting me down. In Santorini, where there has not been a single case of Covid, it is all fairly ‘normal’ – masks are mandatory in shops but rarely enforced. The real tragedy is that the place is empty – beaches are deserted, restaurants part full etc. Great for us to have a holiday without the crowds but terrible for the locals who depend on these few months to see them through the winter. They are all so hospitable and keen for our business. Definitely a tonic to get out of the oppressive vibe in the UK.

69261 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to End of Tether, #532 of 694 🔗

Why is Greece so free of infections? What have they done differently?

69269 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to hotrod, 13, #533 of 694 🔗

Not faked their death figures.

69430 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Farinances, #534 of 694 🔗

Who has? Why would any country do that?

69414 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to End of Tether, #535 of 694 🔗

Hope is doesn’t hit Santorini:

Masks to be compulsory at more indoor public spaces in Greece


69266 wendy, replying to wendy, 10, #536 of 694 🔗

‘Lockdown has killed 21,000 people’, say experts Lockdown policy has had “significant unintended consequences” such as lack of access to critical healthcare and a drop in A&E attendances

article just published in the telegraph.

69286 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendy, 2, #537 of 694 🔗

Great! The truth is starting to come out!

69288 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #538 of 694 🔗

Or is it another false hope? There have been some before.

69299 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to wendy, 3, #539 of 694 🔗

The consequences of lockdown will kill far more than that over the next few years, even decades, but such deaths will be invisible and silent.

69359 ▶▶ Sue, replying to wendy, 1, #540 of 694 🔗

doesn’t take a flippin brain surgeon to work out that if you close everything down including hospitals it’s going to have consequences. Personally I think it’s negligence on behalf of the government, not unintended consequences!

69270 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #541 of 694 🔗

This article about NYC outbreak just published. Overdispersion(superspreader) is not the sole cause of heterogeneity which can also arise through long-term, or persistent variations in individual susceptibility or infectivity “Persistent heterogeneity has three important consequences compared to the effects of overdispersion: (1) It results in a major modification of the early epidemic dynamics; (2) It significantly suppresses the herd immunity threshold; (3) It significantly reduces the final size of the epidemic.
You don’t need that high herdimmunity to supress the outbreak

69284 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to swedenborg, 5, #542 of 694 🔗

So some people are more susceptible than others and once they have been culled by the virus, numbers naturally decline – flatlining. The mass hysteria is not justified.

69271 steve, replying to steve, 9, #543 of 694 🔗

These lawyers have been writing what that actual law is relating to all this coronabollox.

I’m not sure why it’s not been more widely distributed. Simon Dolan’s QC Francis Hoar linked to them so they are genuine

All these businesses struggling to open make money need to realize the antisocial distancing is just guidelines and can be ignored.


Businesses don’t have a choice about imposing social distancing and other Coronavirus measures.


Subject to consideration of health and safety risk assessments as mentioned below, businesses can choose to impose some, all possible or no social distancing measures at all.

They can offer dual service provision, directing those worried about Coronavirus to the left and those who are not to the right. They can charge higher prices to consumers who want social distancing and other Coronavirus ‘safety’ measures. They can offer lower prices and ‘fast passes’ and no queues for those who do not.

This is the common law position in England and Wales. It remains the law in England for the moment and unenforceable guidance won’t change that.“

69281 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to steve, 1, #544 of 694 🔗

I think it’s often more about local EHOs than the law per se.

69292 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to steve, 1, #545 of 694 🔗

In the cancel culture world we live in public image will be a major concern for many businesses.

69331 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to steve, #546 of 694 🔗

I can’t see all the hypochondriacs wanting measures in shops for long if not wanting them means they’ll get discounts!

69276 swedenborg, 3, #547 of 694 🔗

From Kenya few cases compared to Spain with seroprevalence 5%
“Conclusions We estimate that 1 in 20 adults in Kenya had SARS-CoV-2 antibodies during the study period. By the median date of our survey, only 2093 COVID-19 cases and 71 deaths had been reported through the national screening system. This contrasts, by several orders of magnitude, with the numbers of cases and deaths reported in parts of Europe and America when seroprevalence was similar.
Several hundred thousands infected most likely asymptomatic or very mild symptoms

69277 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #548 of 694 🔗

I don’t suppose we should be surprised:

Scientists advising the government have predicted that between 43 and 84 people will still be dying from Covid-19 every day by mid-August, as health leaders called on the government to adopt a “zero Covid” approach and seek total elimination of the virus.
On Wednesday, the government’s official dashboard showed 83 Covid-19 associated deaths and 763 newly lab-confirmed infections. Modellers from the MRC Biostatistics Unit at Cambridge University, however, estimate that there are far more new cases – approximately 3,000 a day – and that deaths will stay high for weeks to come.

. … If those infections are among young people and a significant proportion are mild or even asymptomatic , that may not translate into a big rise in deaths. Nonetheless, hopes among the scientific community of reaching zero Covid-19 deaths are fading, raising fears that the disease will not be contained into winter and there will be a second wave of the sort experienced in Europe .


Scientists are anxious that the lockdown measures in the UK are neither tough enough nor being well enough observed to avoid either localised rises in infections and deaths, or a second wave. The increase being seen in infections needs to be nipped in the bud, they say.


69279 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 21, #549 of 694 🔗

Mark my words, MARK MY WORDS, if they lock us down again we need to start burning things. I’m serious.

69297 ▶▶▶ Poppy, replying to Farinances, 3, #550 of 694 🔗

God almighty, a second lockdown should be totally out of the question. I honestly thought these cretins surely wouldn’t want to smash the economy, people’s mental/physical health, and our total way of life all over again, not when it was such a huge mistake. Maybe I’m wrong.

69300 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Poppy, 2, #551 of 694 🔗

Is anything out of the question for these psychos? I’m getting very worried!

69303 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to DRW, #552 of 694 🔗

me too

69330 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Poppy, 3, #553 of 694 🔗

Unfortunately I think they will be happy to do it again,it’s what I’ve expected all along,to keep building us back up just so they can knock us down again and make it hurt more than the last time.
We simply cannot allow it to happen again,they need to be taken down.

69397 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Poppy, 1, #554 of 694 🔗

I really can’t see a second lockdown happening. The NHS will in future be prepared for a pandemic – so the threat of an NHS meltdown will not apply (which will also show the threat of an NHS collapse in early 2020 was simply the consequence of Government incompetence) I don’t think any other W European country could bear the cost of another lockdown. No finance minister has got another €300 billion in their back pocket. So there will be relative return to sanity…

69403 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, #555 of 694 🔗

…that will also mean a Macron threat to close the Channel to lorry traffic will be unlikely to materialise.

69417 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 1, #556 of 694 🔗

Money is irrelevant, if it was relevant there wouldn’t have been the first lockdown.

69418 ▶▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to OKUK, #557 of 694 🔗

I don’t think it matters whether the medical system is overwhelmed. That was a lie from the outset. In the US, even in New York, the medical systems were never overwhelmed, yet, we had massive lockdowns. As things get better, our governors just keep coming up with more and more restrictions. None of it is based in actual fact. I don’t know what the motivation is – it is likely as simple as power-hunger.

69415 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Poppy, 1, #558 of 694 🔗

The first lockdown hasn’t ended yet, so how can a second one start?

69325 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Farinances, #559 of 694 🔗

Yes,I agree,no more,enough is enough,it will be time to take action.

69351 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Farinances, 1, #560 of 694 🔗

guy fawkes night in november – finish the job!!?? 🙂

69287 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #561 of 694 🔗

Positive PCRs aren’t even “cases” anymore, just “infections”. And I don’t think zero deaths are possible with our current reporting methodology.

69293 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, #562 of 694 🔗

But I think anything’s possible with our current predicting policy!

69305 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #563 of 694 🔗

This is all just bizarre. We’d like zero colds, zero cancer, zero heart disease, zero hangovers, zero work, zero death even. Why on earth would anyone think that zero-any virus in particular was either achievable or desirable, among all possible goals of existence?

69406 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to WhyNow, #564 of 694 🔗

Quite. I would also apply the “better the devil you know” principle. If (by some unlikely sequence of events) we vanquish flu and corona viruses from old and diseased lungs what fresh hell might we usher in by allowing space for novel pathogens that might successfully attack young and healthy people?

69310 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Cheezilla, #565 of 694 🔗

This seems to be coming from “Independent SAGE” as they call themselves, not from the official government stooges.

69339 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to guy153, 2, #566 of 694 🔗

They are a menace – worse than the ‘real’ SAGE.

69390 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #567 of 694 🔗

Their only objective is to trash the economy, and many of the individuals have had that objective for some time and were primed ready to go as soon as ‘the opportunity’ presented itself.

69344 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Cheezilla, #568 of 694 🔗

We all need to go out so we can ride our shiny new bikes.


69419 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, #569 of 694 🔗

I’ve got a voucher for £50 to repair my Penny Farthing!

69389 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #570 of 694 🔗

The Guardian can just fuck off now, hysterical fucking rag pumping non-stop fear. And I say this as someone who until this was a ‘contributor’ as I stupidly thought they were pretty reliable, albeit fully aware of the need to ‘balance out’ my hot takes with some from more right leaning papers too. Now it is just 100% junk.

69475 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark II, #571 of 694 🔗

It’s always been junk.

However, it was once junk with a very admirable investigative arm which was worth the price of the paper alone.

Sadly that has now gone almost completely to shit. Nearly ALL their ‘reporting’ is now tinged with agenda bias. Now the tabloids and the DM are often ones doing the best job when it comes to investigations aka proper journalism.

69290 Dave #KBF, 2, #572 of 694 🔗

Interesting commentary on a Bill Gates interview:


69291 DRW, replying to DRW, 10, #573 of 694 🔗

I am feeling really anxious tonight about all this “second wave” stuff- we all know it’s rubbish but most don’t and I’m fearing all sorts.

69306 ▶▶ Basics, replying to DRW, 6, #574 of 694 🔗

I think they will twist it into a series of spikes. They cannot get tge nations to collabourate as they had hoped to orchestrate a wave. At least that is my latest computer model based on what I see.

Perhaps try distracting yourself by going crazy and visiting the SNP twitter account @theSNP. I can’t really believe what I’m seeing there, so many sceptics – it’s cheering in a normal-people-are-seeing-through-this-now kind of way.

One beautiful reply is about a statement made by kate? Forbes? The one wot does the money in Scotland.

On @theSnp a reply is: “You cannot create jobs, babe. Any more than you can buy a shovel and expect it to dig it’s own holes.”

It’s just good to realise we are not alone by any means. We have a large silent majority as Simon Dolan said.

69320 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Basics, 1, #575 of 694 🔗

It’s whether that’ll be enough to stop more lockdowns or worse. That’s what really rattles me.

69340 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to DRW, 6, #576 of 694 🔗

I understand, it is sickening and these are nervy times, taking whatever action you want is a good way to stop feelings of helplessness. I am a great believer in humanity. We are many they are few. The brain washed will wake us – we are seeing that all around us.

The day where sturgeon asked fir volunteers to be vaccinated got her 350 odd replies. One of them:

“am a Gulf War Veteran. One third of GW Veterans are ill due to being forced to have vaccinations that had not been adequately tested and were unlicensed. I won’t be going within a million miles of this.”

There is a lot of fight on our side. A lot.

Actually – gulfwar syndrome hasn’t been mentiined at all during my days here on LS. It requires raising more often.

69349 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Basics, 3, #577 of 694 🔗

wasn’t there the issue also with the anti-malaria tablets give to soldiers also, think it was Larium and supposedly gave psychosis.

69471 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 2, #578 of 694 🔗

Thankyou for mentioning it! I had no idea this was even a thing!
Is this because they were basically testing vaccines on soldiers?

69591 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Farinances, 1, #579 of 694 🔗

A whole cocktail of mrdicines were administered. I believe the movie Jar Head cover this by one fast scene where each solider in line is given a pill. It was much more than that. Chemical weapons being assumed. It would be a good idea to search a little into it and post again. It is ceratainly a parallel to the situation now.

69393 ▶▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to DRW, 2, #580 of 694 🔗

I don’t think there will be any more general lockdowns. Jean Castex, the French Prime Minister, said there will not be another lockdown because “the economic and human consequences from a total lockdown are disastrous.”

As reported in the DT, Macron forced Boris into lockdown by threatening to close the Channel ports. So, if the French don’t have one, we won’t have to have one. Know what I mean?

69341 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to DRW, 7, #581 of 694 🔗

I think it is finally sinking in that there are no deaths or even excess deaths. We can have more waves than hot dinners but deaths count (never thought i’d hear myself say that).

I was chatting to my neighbour today who is finally waking up and the 1st thing he said without prompting was nobody has died for weeks so why all the fuss, it’s gone right????

Hmmmm, yes!

69296 DThom, replying to DThom, 7, #582 of 694 🔗

Dirty Mask stories.
Take dirty screwed up mask from pocket and put it on. Pull it down to chin. Pull it up again. Fiddle with it and then touch items on shelves. Pull it down to speak. Pull it up again. Exit store and take it off quickly. Screw it up and place back in pocket.
I even saw someone in the High street pull mask down to cough then pull it back up. Ugh!

69380 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to DThom, #583 of 694 🔗


69501 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DThom, #584 of 694 🔗

So it’s not alright to wipe your nose with it before chucking it in the gutter ?

69301 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #585 of 694 🔗

This shows that mask wearing in China and Japan (pre Covid-19) did not have better outcome as regards flu deaths compared to non-mask wearing US and Germany (pre-Covid-19)Perhaps not surprising . Posted yesterday CDC May 2020 study that masks did not protect for influenza. Evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.Contrast that with Covid-19 at the moment not a single RCT is published no evidence. We are waiting for a Danish study not yet published but finished(the investigator just stated that he hoped that Denmark would not mandate masks, perhaps a hint of the result of the study??)

69385 ▶▶ matt, replying to swedenborg, #586 of 694 🔗

But the answer will be “it’s not ‘flu”.

It is, clearly, a completely new virus that behaves in ways we’ve never seen viruses behave before and our immune system reacts to it in ways our immune system reacts to no other viruses.

69468 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 1, #587 of 694 🔗

When they say this say “no it’s a common cold”. Seriously it works. Usually they laugh. Because somewhere deep inside, it lands.

69309 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #588 of 694 🔗

More from Ross Clark:

By appearing in public flanked by scientific and medical advisers the Prime Minister has indicated he wants us to know that all his decisions are backed by science. But what difference might it have made if he had involved economists to anything like the same extent?
True, economists have hardly bathed themselves in glory in recent years with their lousy predictions over Brexit and so on. But at least we wouldn’t have ended up where we are at the moment: with economic considerations smothered by the all-conquering aim of suppressing the number of new viral infections.

…. Whether there really is a second wave in Spain, or in any other European country, is debatable – while there has been a moderate upwards blip in new confirmed cases in Spain over the past four weeks there has not been the remotest sign of an uptick in deaths, of which just two were recorded on Tuesday.

Ministers try to excuse the hurried change in the rules by saying that they were in receipt of dramatic new evidence of a second wave in Spain – evidence which seems to consist of 10 people returning from that country and testing positive for Covid-19.

…. It isn’t just the holiday industry which faces devastation from this kneejerk policy-making. It is hard, for example, for any business to invest in reopening shops or offices knowing that it could be forced to close them again should they fall victim to a sudden Leicester-style lockdown.

…. At least when lockdown began in March everyone was in the same boat, huge grants and loans were being made available for businesses unable to trade – and the Government had the excuse that the virus had caught the world unawares. There is no excuse for the way the Government is behaving now, pulling the rug from whole industries, and whole towns at whim. It is simply not safe at the moment for anyone to invest in any public-facing industry.


69313 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #589 of 694 🔗

well said!

69361 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #590 of 694 🔗

Unfortunately the pressure will be for COVID Zero which will be argued is the only way to avoid having to put any measures in place, other than controlling borders.

69311 Humanity First, 4, #591 of 694 🔗

YouTube outlaws “contradicting” the World Health Organization
[“YouTube doesn’t allow content that spreads medical misinformation that contradicts the World Health Organization (WHO) or local health authorities”]


If true, You Tube has effectively become WHO’s mouthpiece …and WHO is the mouthpiece of its biggest donors (i.e. Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and big Pharma)…

(Apologies if article has previously been linked)

69319 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #592 of 694 🔗

Great article from Julia Hartley-Brewer:


The holiday fiasco proves we are being fed a diet of junk. New contradictory measures about travel to Spain and fighting obesity show the government is making it up as it goes along.

….the latest pronouncements from Number 10 suggest that, far from directing his Cabinet to create the sweet music of good government, Boris’s left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing. And, frankly, I’d chance that it seems that what his right hand is doing sometimes comes as a complete surprise to his right hand too.

…. It’s also a bit rich for the Prime Minister, who we’ve seen photographed cycling and jogging every morning for years, to tell us to get on our bikes to lose weight when, with all due respect, it plainly hasn’t done the trick for him.

Unfortunately the comments make for very depressing reading – maybe 77th decided to have a party there.

69366 ▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, #593 of 694 🔗

Shame – the comments looked very healthy indeed when I looked at them this morning.

69368 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #594 of 694 🔗

I especially like the second most highly rated one, though:

‘Boris & his Government couldn’t organise a fart in a Mushy pea factory: they have totally lost the plot….and it is us paying the price.
Every step of the way they seem to have made wrong decisions ,from ‘experts’ to trying to manipulate the British people ‘for their own good’.
I have totally disconnected from them and ignore anything they say or do’

69321 PeteMate, replying to PeteMate, 19, #595 of 694 🔗

Something amazing happened on the local BBC news this evening. I apologise for watching the MSM news, but in my defence i was round my mums, so she had TV Rights. Anyway, there was a outside broadcast from Southend pier. They were interviewing people about holidays etc. They spoke to a lass who had come down from Liverpool. Interviewer asked if she was worried about catching the virus/transmitting it/taking it back to Liverpool. Usual bed wetting BBC question. Her reply ” Not at all, I haven’t got it and I don’t know anyone else who’s had it since this all started” Almost choked on my dinner!! Can’t believe the BBC, of all people included her interview and didn’t edit out this reply…Priceless

69334 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to PeteMate, 4, #596 of 694 🔗

They will face-morph and voice synth her to make her say” Well my gran had it and died, a bloke down the road had it and died, I am shielding my Dad and I feel terrible for coming on holiday now you mention it, sorry, I will go home tomorrow”.

Wastch out for the re-run on BBC Breakfast.

69347 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to PeteMate, 1, #597 of 694 🔗

I can see a BBC report negated to all the rubbish jobs for some time.

69352 ▶▶ mjr, replying to PeteMate, #598 of 694 🔗

but that is local news,,,,,,,,,, now if that was national news ….it would be news. all the same i dont know how that got past the censors

69431 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to PeteMate, 1, #599 of 694 🔗

That’s what happens when they do a genuine vox pop instead of editing it before broadcast!

69332 RDawg, replying to RDawg, 9, #600 of 694 🔗


Almost 2,700 people a week have died because of the effects of lockdown, analysis of official data suggests.

The study by economists and academics from Sheffield and Loughborough universities suggests more than 21,000 people died as a result of the measures introduced in March.

69345 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to RDawg, 8, #601 of 694 🔗

But only COVID19 is on the list of unnacceptable ways to die.

These deaths were necessary as we must do everything we can to save just one life. All life is precious. Tell that to the families of COVID victims. blah blah blah.

69363 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RDawg, 8, #602 of 694 🔗

Blood directly on the hands of Johnson and his cabinet, and the opposition leaders who supported it, and moral complicity for all the coronapanickers who pushed it.

69369 ▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Mark, 8, #603 of 694 🔗

This should be front page news of every newspaper and the leading headline of every news channel.

69374 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to RDawg, 4, #604 of 694 🔗

It’s been flagged on Sky as it is the lead article in the hard copy tomorrow. Paper review about to start

69381 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #605 of 694 🔗

Sorry, it’s not on the front page, my mistake.

69408 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #606 of 694 🔗


69413 ▶▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to RDawg, #607 of 694 🔗

I agree totally. Sick to the back teeth of the whole thing and not sure how much more I can take.

69372 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, 4, #608 of 694 🔗

Agree completely Mark. Not sure what the average age of these poor souls is, but it sure as hell isn’t 79/80.

69383 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to RDawg, 3, #609 of 694 🔗

What on earth will the hysterics who have been claiming every single ‘excess death’ so far this year was exclusively Covid-19 do?! First the dodgy counting revealed, now they gotta take 21k off their tally, soon they’ll discover the whole ‘notifiable disease’ malarky

69387 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark II, 2, #610 of 694 🔗

It’s taken them bloody long enough so far.

69391 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 2, #611 of 694 🔗

I think we got a long wait, judging by what I still see on social media & how I see people behaving, before any useful backlash. I’m no longer hopeful of an end to this before middle of next year, and even then it will quite literally be a ‘new normal’ of increased surveillance, some people never letting go of their comfort masks and a never ending threat of lockdowns for the tiniest winter flu blip.

69394 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark II, 5, #612 of 694 🔗

Mostly out of sheer bloody-mindedness, I refuse to agree with you. The wheels were clearly coming off (albeit slowly) pre muzzle day. We just need to keep plugging away.

69396 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to matt, 1, #613 of 694 🔗

I really bloody hope I’m wrong too

69405 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mark II, 4, #614 of 694 🔗

I see a fragility in the lies. Truth is a big, round cast iron affair. This is akin to a snapped and broken game of Kerplunk!

69333 swedenborg, 3, #615 of 694 🔗

All are now interested in Spain and the increasing numbers of cases. According to the twitter and the comment the few deaths you see during the last 2 weeks are all elderly with co-morbidities.But you wouldn’t expect an increase in death already in the new surge and if it is according to rumours mostly young might only be very few deaths coming. Spain’s death statistics for Covid-19 have been criticized. Can’t vouch if twitter has reported correct data 100 %

69362 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #616 of 694 🔗

For anyone concerned about gloves, looks like you might be looking in the wrong direction:


Mrs Cameron, if you are looking in, you need to start designing those goggles!

69370 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 8, #617 of 694 🔗

Honest to god, at that point I’m going to start punching people.

69376 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #618 of 694 🔗

Snorkels next.

69421 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Fed up, 2, #619 of 694 🔗

Welcome to clown world

69452 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Fed up, 2, #620 of 694 🔗

Full scuba gear. Wouldn’t even want to breathe the same air as others, despite being oxygen deprived from the face muzzle. Hey, it might be easier to breathe with an oxygen tank strapped onto your back than with a cloth mask!

69382 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 10, #621 of 694 🔗

Feels like they’re just trolling us now

69384 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark II, 6, #622 of 694 🔗

They have been doing that here since Cummings’ preposterous Barnard Castle Defence. Some are enjoying the power trip a little too much. Others are just plain evil.

69500 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #623 of 694 🔗

Ramping up the fear

69365 OKUK, 8, #624 of 694 🔗

Totally impartial BBC presenter Emma Barnett is pushing the joys of masks on her twitter thread. Memo to Emma: mandatory masks are, to use a very BBC word, “controversial”. It’s not in your JD to take sides.

69392 JohnB, 9, #625 of 694 🔗

For anyone in the area, the KeepBritainFree Sussex group is getting together next week for chat/drink/meeting.

69404 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 3, #626 of 694 🔗

So just out on a whim I decided to see if there were any studies on plastic fibre aspiration (given that most “cloth” masks are actually polyester or polyester elastine mix)…

Found this recent one on ScienceDirect (paywall, but graphics isn’t paywalled) with a lovely lung tissue slide called “Microplastics in air: Are we breathing it in?” — https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2468584417300119
There’s also one called “inhaled Cellulosic and Plastic Fibres found in Human Lung Tissue” (graphic pictures!) in Cancer Epidemiology, Biomarkers & Prevention 1998, Vol 7, 419–428 — https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9610792/

An even older one called “Respiratory disease caused by synthetic fibres: a new occupational disease” in Thorax (BMJ) 1975, 30, 204 — https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1179318/

And that’s a cursory 5 second search!

69410 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to IMoz, 2, #627 of 694 🔗

Thanks for the research….I had also wondered about that. Presumably more microplastics are released as the same filthy mask is reused and kept in people’s pockets and handbags for months, so gradually fraying.

69411 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to OKUK, 1, #628 of 694 🔗

I suspect once you stick it in your bag/pocket it would pick up loose fibres there and the nose-facing part is a convenient “scoop” to accumulate all those “just in the right place” until it’s right against your face…

69429 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to IMoz, 1, #629 of 694 🔗

Yes think of it as a pathogen scoop!

69498 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 1, #630 of 694 🔗

Oh happy days, snotty junkies in schoolboy pockets.

69499 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, #631 of 694 🔗


69748 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #632 of 694 🔗


69407 RyanM, #633 of 694 🔗

I thought I had read a few articles picking apart this lancet study as being junk science… but I cannot find them now that I’m looking. Anyone have any links for me?



69409 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #634 of 694 🔗

Regarding not being able to see your GP; in my area it has been the case where you call in the morning for a same-day appointment for some time. If you don’t get one, you are advised to call the next day.

I just assumed they got paid more for always being able to see patients within 12hrs of asking for an appointment.

69412 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #635 of 694 🔗

No we dont get paid more for seeing patients within 12 hours. The problem has been for years trying to fit the demand in to the available working day. I have between 50 and 60 telephone appointments a day which after triage I see about a third in the surgery .

69425 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #636 of 694 🔗

Is that just a catch-up from being unavailable to your patients, or too many patients in your practice? Genuinely interested, as either answer means ‘our’ NHS doesn’t work and needs urgent rectification.

69432 ▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #637 of 694 🔗

I have been available from the begining in mid March thanks . Ok I get it you are in the I hate my GP group. My average is 50 -60 calls a day to triage from a personal list size of 2,400. My day starts at 7.45 am and finishes at 7.15 pm. The last hour of the day is spent checking blood results and dictating letters.

69457 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Peter Thompson, 2, #638 of 694 🔗

I don’t think James is necessarily in the “I hate my GP group”, rather just genuinely interested in why you have such a phenomenal daily work rate. I’d be concerned for safety if I knew that any GP I was consulting was working 12 hours and fielding 50 to 60 telephone consultations per day and then seeing 20 or so patients that same day. This surely is not a safe way to practise medicine. I don’t believe that any GP in my own practice is working at this that rate. The practice is locked and bolted by 5.30pm apart from anything else unless they are all inside checking blood results but the doctors’ car park (which I can see from my window) is often deserted from 4pm except for perhaps one Range Rover a couple of times a week. For a group practice of 7 doctors (only 2 full-time) I believe that it is very unusual for more than one doctor to be on the premises after 4 pm.

69461 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Gillian, 1, #639 of 694 🔗

I was criticised before on this subject for mentioning a fact (facts being dangerous): many, possibly most, female GPs don’t work full time. You aren’t really getting full value from training of GPs as a result. I’ve absolutely no problem with women choosing a good work-life balance but it clearly places strains on GP services.

69466 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to OKUK, 3, #640 of 694 🔗

How do you think you can rectify that ? stop women studying medicine or have quotas ?

69463 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Gillian, 1, #641 of 694 🔗

I suggest you contact your Health Board in Scotland as GP services are contracted between 8 am and 18.00 . Here is the link for you.


I think you have an axe to grind Gillian as I have noted before.

As to safe way to practice medicine how else do you think I can cope with the demand ?

69458 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #642 of 694 🔗

I’m not having a go but it’s a fact GP surgeries in London basically closed down during the height of the Covid crisis which I think was shameful. People were essentially being advised to go to A&E.

69464 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to OKUK, #643 of 694 🔗

I can not comment on London . I doubt though that the surgeries closed completely.

69427 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Peter Thompson, #644 of 694 🔗

Thanks for the clarity, Peter.

Edit – this has never been an issue for me. Always managed to get an appointment when needed. Anything urgent and I would head straight for the walk-in centre in any case.

69495 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #645 of 694 🔗

Depends on the practise, I walk in and ask for an appointment (not fussed which Doctor) usually get seen within 24 hours, it’s a busy Surgery but I’m not a frequent user.
Last year i had a chest x-ray at the hospital in the late afternoon, my own GP was on the phone 07.30 the following morning to tell me all was well. Top Marks.

69422 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to T. Prince, #647 of 694 🔗

The link does not work.

69423 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Dave #KBF, #648 of 694 🔗

Sorry, have a look at Tyneside Tigress’s below, same subject

69424 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 1, #649 of 694 🔗

Sorry ignore, have a look at Tyneside Tigress’s link below, same subject

69420 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #650 of 694 🔗

The Chairman of the Technology Anti-trust investigation session in Washington today summarised by saying some of these four businesses need to be broken up.

These were concluding sentiments after several hourse of questioning by senators of Zuckerburg, Bezos, Cook and Pichai.

Apple, Amazon, Google and facebook told they are a monopoly and face being broken up under anti-competition laws. No involvement of Mircosoft, curious.

Quite extraordinary language, on the surface, with the caveat that these things frequently amount to nothing.

Aside from the LS related issues of corona/covid19 censoring on these information platforms the hearing makes it believeable that Gates’s global monopoly may well be also challenged, in time.

69438 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Basics, 2, #651 of 694 🔗

The Republicans seem to really have the bit between the teeth now on this problem, which has been building for years but has become urgent because of the Presidential election. Consider Jim Jordan’s ( ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee ) comments about this (5:25):
Rep. Jordan sounds off on Democrats’ treatment of AG Barr at House hearing

69428 BJJ, replying to BJJ, 1, #652 of 694 🔗

Anyone got the picture with flags and percentages of covid survivals someone had a couple of days ago?

69434 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to BJJ, #653 of 694 🔗

It was an Irish Freedom Party tweet I believe.

69444 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to OKUK, #654 of 694 🔗

Thanks, but can´t find it.

69557 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to BJJ, #655 of 694 🔗

I have it, will post shortly as on laptop

69433 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 2, #656 of 694 🔗

Obviously we are an embattled minority but I’ve been feeling a little bit more optimistic over the last few days. If the reality is we are living in a flatlining world, as seems increasingly likely (certainly as far as deaths go) then the opposition are going to have a hard time of it maintaining extreme fear levels.

69445 ▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 3, #657 of 694 🔗

Here is a lovely lilting Irish take on things. Putting across the same positive message amongst the gloom – and it is deep gloom. Several topics covered including gates looking panicked by the army of anti gates humans that are rising. A lovely bit of work emminently shareable:


69455 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 3, #658 of 694 🔗

Yes, sounds like good stuff. I think he’s right in saying no one seriously believes that masks have a protective effect..,the significance lies in us adopting the marker. We’ve certainly seen this before with the national salute in Germany in the 30s and the obligatory use of “Comrade” in the Soviet Union. What is being sought here is our compliance.

69489 ▶▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to OKUK, 2, #659 of 694 🔗

I have met a lot of people who sincerely believe that masks work. A lot. I also watched a baseball game last night and the announcers were believers. People just have a really hard time accepting the fact that they are being manipulated. And note that lancet article I asked about. People really do believe this stuff.

69494 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to RyanM, 2, #660 of 694 🔗

I imagine that everyone fronting mainstream tv would have to at least pretend to believe.

69493 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 1, #661 of 694 🔗

Ha Ha and if course it’s the skeptics who get the face recognition surveillance. Clever little buggers.

69491 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #662 of 694 🔗

Dave Cullen, great guy surprised YouTube haven’t already cancelled him, following his bitchute too.

69435 Dave #KBF, 8, #663 of 694 🔗

BBC are saying that the current self isolation time of 7 days is going to be extended to 10 days, in England.

We are only 19 weeks into the pandemic so we expect a few adjustments to the protocols.

Dart board planning at play here.

69437 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 12, #664 of 694 🔗

Had to leave my haven in the country to go back to the city for my grandmother’s funeral. While she didn’t die of Covid, the lockdown effectively killed her will to live. She was almost 101, so not tragic but I feel badly that her last month’s were so miserable. Our regional dictatorship has limited funerals to 20 attendees, etc., etc., which was fine, but the funeral home told my mother that the cemetery required the use of masks. Now this was a completely outdoor funeral and there is NO requirement to wear masks outdoors (yet). I was literally told that they could call the authorities and have me removed if I did not comply. So I e-mailed the cemetery after hearing their voice message “strongly recommending” the use of masks and asked for clarification. I cited the by-law and wanted their answer on the record as I believe this to be a human rights issue. Well, of course the masks are not mandated but I honestly don’t think anyone has ever pushed back on this nonsense. Even though I was told in writing that masks are not mandated, I was still accosted by a cemetery employee trying to push hand sanitizer and a mask on me, but she got the message really quickly that she ought not mess with me. I was gratified that my mom removed her mask to give the eulogy, my husband didn’t wear one (I knew he wouldn’t) and my brother and a few of my nieces and nephews didn’t once they realized they didn’t have to. Back at my mother’s, a few relatives stayed outside in her garden with their masks on and the rest of us stayed inside and didn’t distance at all; I went outside once the mask wearers had left. While my husband would like me to be less confrontational with people over the mask nonsense, I feel that these would-be dictators trying to force their bullshit non-rules on me don’t deserve kindness or the benefit of the doubt. In another annoying confrontation, we tried to go out for dinner for the first time since March and were told we must provide contact tracing information. I took it up with the manager who acknowledged this was not a government mandate but a decision by the restaurant to keep people “safe.” I asked if he was turning away our business and he said that indeed he was. Pragmatism kicked in as we were starving, so at the next restaurant my husband wrote an illegible signature and a fake phone number. Lovely dinner on the patio, only spoiled by the morons wearing masks outside when they don’t even have to. Sorry for the long post, but it was my first time out in society in a very long time and it was kind of fun to push back instead of hide away like I have been doing.

69440 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #665 of 694 🔗

You’re right to be forthright and push back, Lisa. They can only get away with what they are doing because all too many go along to get along.

69450 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Mark, 6, #666 of 694 🔗

Thank you Mark, I’m beginning to see that. I’ve spent many a day in tears and with a lot of anxiety since the mask mandate. It’s much more empowering to be bitchy and pushing back than wallowing in misery.

69442 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #667 of 694 🔗

I’ve mentioned several times here that demoralisation of the elderly through denied contact with loving family, through absence of visits by entertainers, petting animals etc and through being cared for by people previously known as friendly faces but now masked, must be raising death rates…possibly more than the virus itself…who can really tell?

69449 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to OKUK, 4, #668 of 694 🔗

Another friend of the family who is at the same residence is also going downhill fast, especially cognitively. She says she’s bored and unstimulated. And this is a very high-end retirement residence with a hair salon, pool, computer room, etc. and they used to have lots of programs and special guests come in. My grandmother loved it there until the lockdown. A reporter from a local paper interviewed my mom for a story she wrote a while back and wants to talk to her again now that my grandmother has passed away. So at least some attention will be drawn to this issue. I do feel badly for the residence owners as they are between a rock and a hard place.

69469 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #669 of 694 🔗

I don’t blame UK care staff at all. They understand the needs of confused or frail elderly people much better than hospital staff and generally are good carers. The problem here is government guidance and the general fear atmosphere which encourages care homes to adopt zealous attitudes.

69481 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to OKUK, 3, #670 of 694 🔗

Well, Canada has the distinction of being number 1 in the world at killing old people in LTC facilities. Some 80% of all our Covid deaths came from this population, so it’s hard to blame the owners for being so diligent with the lockdown, even though the residents have suffered terribly and continue to do so as they are nowhere near operating as they did before. The government-run homes fared terribly as they are underfunded and pack people in. My grandmother’s place was private and very high-end, though even they had a few Covid deaths despite being locked down at the end of February (they were quite early). It was the additional care workers that work part-time for residents and often work at multiple places that brought Covid into the facility. Eventually they were forced to pick one facility and could only work there, but the damage had been done.

69441 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #671 of 694 🔗

If masks work why isn’t the country back as it was pre-lockdown?

69443 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, 3, #672 of 694 🔗

Because back then science said they were useless, but now we have “the science” (perhaps some post-modern “this is what I feel it is” bastard child of science) that “says” they “might” work…

69447 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 3, #673 of 694 🔗

If masks work why is “The Masked Singer” such a shit show?

Why couldn’t the Lone Ranger see the tracks like Tonto did?

Why isn’t fencing more popular than football?

Why do brave people always refuse them when offered prior to execution?

69480 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 1, #674 of 694 🔗

Fencing mask! Great idea.

69732 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #675 of 694 🔗

I’ve suggested wearing an adapted sieve.

69560 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to JohnB, #676 of 694 🔗


69453 wendyk, 2, #677 of 694 🔗


Says it all.

Dare to bare; think for yourself.

Obviously we all do this, but most no longer do.

69462 Chris Hume, replying to Chris Hume, 4, #678 of 694 🔗

I have seen a few Irish posters on here, and would like their view. What is the position there? I am from Irish stock, and have spent many childhood holidays amongst my cousins from Offaly and Carlow and held the passport long before it became fashionable. My experience was that they were the best bullshit callers ever. Surely they are laughing and ‘calling out’ this nonsense? The relations I have are more fixated with Brexit and the rise of SF, so not yet really engaging in this. Please tell me you are going to honour the Irish tradition!!!

69479 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #679 of 694 🔗

There’s a letter from Northern Ireland on LDSs tomorrow page.

69518 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to karenovirus, 2, #680 of 694 🔗

Thanks. Look forward to reading that. As I say, in my experience the Irish are very good at spotting nonsense and crap a mile off and are very irreverent towards politicians and authority in general. Long years of experience of seeing where listening to ‘lies dressed up as almighty truth’ gets you. The Catholic Church being but the most recent example, I guess.

69521 ▶▶ Will, replying to Chris Hume, #681 of 694 🔗

Not Irish by birth but by heritage, an active Munster rugby supporter and contributor to one of the fans forum many of whose contributors have become firm friends over the years. I tend to plough a lonely furrow, politically, on the forum as it is very left wing (intolerant of anything that doesn’t fit the group think) I posted a fair bit of sceptical opinion and was regarded as having two heads by many posters. I got the sense that a few people felt any deviation from locking down till kingdom come smelt of Anglo Saxon exceptionalism. I haven’t been on for a while as arguing with entrenched confirmation bias is a recipe for an aneurism.

69559 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Chris Hume, #682 of 694 🔗

All I can say is my family are there and they are completely suckered. It’s like here. Obviously there are the dissenters we hear about but they’re totally duped.

69593 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Chris Hume, 2, #683 of 694 🔗

Chris a chara,

I have been in Ireland for the last five months. Before mask wearing was mandatory I would say 25% of people were wearing then in Lidl in Dingle. But once the Toaiseach merely said they were to be Mandatory 90% were wearing them.

When that legislation came in force I was refused service in a village shop for not wearing one. Not been back since.

In a very remote country shop two days ago I was served by a poor girl that had to wear a mask (obligatory in Ireland unless they are behind a screen) – she didn’t seem to notice I wasn’t wearing a mask. But it is such a quiet shop it is possible that a lot of people pop in without one.

I’ll be braving a shopping trip to Dingle this morn – but venturing only into small shops which are limited to one or two customers at a time, while the friend I’m staying with shops at Lidl wearing a mask – a bit of a cop out I admit.

I’ll be noticing the mask wearing on the street of course.

It might be some comfort to you to know that on St. John’s night I was at a gathering with about fifty others in the countryside around a tinecnamh and no social distancing there at all, at all, and only one mask in sight – on a young woman working with a film crew who soon had it round her chin. And some pubs are lán go barr of an evening with no one eating at all, at all as they are suppose to be.

Mise le meas,


69492 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 4, #684 of 694 🔗

2 anecdotes from Sturgeon land: think Kafka/Catch 22/ Great Leap Forward:

met an acquaintance recently who works at our much loved, but no longer accessible, local library.

Although the council website still claims that library services are closed until further notice, Sturgeon sanctioned reopening on July 15th.

Our conversation revealed the mad guidelines now operating: readers must now ring a general number-the library’s own number is out of action- to request a book.

However, reservations for titles from other libraries cannot be accepted and appointments must be made to appear at an agreed time to collect a book.

General access is still forbidden. The staff now fear that these arcane nonsensical restrictions will be used as cover for cuts to services and even closures.

The library here runs training classes for adults, free computer access,story sessions for very young children, exhibitions and various community groups.

It is widely used and has a marvellous DVD collection and the normal service is excellent.

The average reader is unlikely to be a plague ridden, vandal intent on a bit of antisocial behaviour in the crime section, so why are we not allowed entry?

Secondly, finally received an appointment by text from local beautician for much needed facial tidying up.

List of instructions in text, plus friendly greeting.

Turned up, another lady waiting, admitted, asked to take seats suitably distanced.

Temperatures taken, all masked except for me.

Then, the piece de resistance: Covid questionnaire in triplicate, list of open questions:identity, contact, travel, symptoms etc.

Totally useless and open to making it up as you go along and where will the forms go?

Therapists hate the masks, as does the other customer; their expenses have increased- forms, masks,plastic items, sanitisers, deep cleaning of treatment rooms between sessions, fewer customers and longer working hours to compensate.

Fortunately, this little business is secure with a loyal customer base, but what a piece of nonsense all this is.

The therapists are now dreading the winter with its attendant infections: how will they cope? Will staff be sent home if they sneeze?

Another suspension of service unthinkable.

Meanwhile young people here cannot sit their exams, their future plans are in disarray, jobs are vanishing and masks and gloves are being dumped everywhere.

And now the Holyrood Headbangers have a new hate crime bill in the pipeline which, if reports are to be believed, will gag our thoughts as well as our speech and our actions.

Welcome to the unhappy tartan dystopia folks.

69582 ▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 1, #685 of 694 🔗

Might I make a suggestion re Libraries. Your new abnormal has seized libraries for the front line in the woking of our childrens minds.

Perhaps it is well lifraries remain closed if the below manner of physop is unleasted from them: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/arts-and-culture/books/lets-get-fabulous-edinburgh-libraries-welcomes-drag-queen-story-hour-2885341%3famp
The Edinburgh Libraries have booked the act again for next year. Yes Aida H Dee is as unfunny as it is unbelievable.

One Drag act has said openly that this is as sick as it seems since the scene of drag is ‘on the seedier side of ‘adult’.

But good news from Leeds – https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-leeds-53164255

69497 Steve Martindale, #686 of 694 🔗

I thought it had disappeared but they have started to talk about the ‘R’ rate again and here in the south west it could be above 1, shock horror, the apocalypse is upon us! It surprises me that everybody seems to accept these announcements without question, as if the powers that be sit round like Macbeth’s witches, eye of newt and toe of frog and out pops the R number never to be questioned.
It seems very hard to find out how they calculate this number and what has changed when it goes up or down? I get the feeling it is a more subjective process than they would like to admit. As it is, it seems just another factor that was supposed to be helpful but is actually being used to beat us. Why is nobody questioning the R rate business?

69504 Moomin, replying to Moomin, #687 of 694 🔗

Morning, I need to go to the opticians and they’re saying I will be required to wear a mask, obviously I won’t be doing that but do the guidelines state that I should or is it like hairdressers where the client doesn’t have to?

69526 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to Moomin, #688 of 694 🔗

Please try not to comply and then report back here.

69603 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Moomin, 2, #689 of 694 🔗

I went about 3 weeks ago. They wanted me to mask up but I refused and they reluctantly agreed. You could try a different optician, some seem to be more militant about it than others. Last time I looked opticians were not on the govt list of places where masks are required.

69558 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #690 of 694 🔗

A whimsical thought struck me this morn – what if “the science” concluded that not wearing trousers would hamper the spread of the virus. I rather thinkover night we’d see men wearing sarongs and kilts

69587 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #691 of 694 🔗

I’ve not worn trousers for the whole of the lockdown, only shorts, and we’ve had no COVID-19 in our household, family and friends, so you might be on to something here!

69868 ▶▶ peter charles, replying to Ned of the Hills, #692 of 694 🔗

That’s an easy one: trousers wearing would become mandatory.

69621 swedenborg, 2, #693 of 694 🔗

Austria’s new Law where you must wear masksMasks:Pharmacies,GPsurgeries,Banks,Bakeries,Butchers,Small general stores,Catholic churches,Mosques,Public Transport,Supermarkets,Petrolstation shops,Hospitals
No Masks: Hard ware stores,Clothes-Fashion Shops, Evangelic Churches,Museums,Restaurants
This is the scientific logical thinking of the young, charismatic Chancellor of Austria to keep the country virus free. Good luck.

69940 Ned of the Hills, #694 of 694 🔗

12 hours ago Chris Hume asked how things were in Ireland.

It is four hours ago I responded by saying:-

I’ll be braving a shopping trip to Dingle this morn – but venturing only into small shops which are limited to one or two customers at a time, while the friend I’m staying with shops at Lidl wearing a mask – a bit of a cop out I admit.

Here is my report.

The streets of Dingle look very normal. Few people wearing masks outdoors – circa 10%. but once in shops they seem to don them.

I ventured maskless in to five small shops. I had no problem in four of them. In two I was engaged in conversation as they know me. In one, however, I was refused service. The proprietor, who knows, me by name was sat behind a plastic shield and fully masked. A masked customer left as I approached the counter leaving me the only customer in the shop.

It’s the law you must wear a mask.

It would have been so easy for her to take the two items I had in my hand and the money I had ready. She’s lost trade and caused unpleasantness so what has she gained?

A sense she has done her bit to save the health of the country?

Was she doing it to secure her own health?

Or was she just obeying the law as she saw it?

I did say, though it might be the law that I should have to wear a mask in a shop it wasn’t her role to enforce it.

It gives me some comfort to be able to say that she is English (agus gan aon focal Gaeilge aici leis.)


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25Drawde92719, 6
25T. Prince4, 1, 3, 10, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 0, 0, 1
24Barney McGrew17, 7
24Riffman23, 1
24Nick Rose1, 0, 3, 1, 3, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 5, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 2, 0
22Lms237, 13, 2
22Nobody20206, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 8
20Ruth Sharpe17, 1, 2
20Two-Six2, 0, 2, 0, 3, 0, 9, 4, 0
19alw0, 19
19Edgar Friendly0, 0, 0, 17, 2
17Hammer Onats17
16Mrs Two-Six7, 8, 1, 0
15Wickwar Bob15
14End of Tether14
14Mark H14
14karenovirus0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 2, 1, 0, 1, 1
13Jonathan Palmer1, 1, 11
11Lockdown Truth11, 0, 0
11Peter Thompson3, 4, 3, 1, 0
11Sarigan0, 8, 3, 0, 0
11steve1, 0, 1, 0, 9
10DJ Dod5, 1, 4
10James00710, 0, 0
10A. Contrarian2, 0, 3, 3, 2
9Fed up5, 4
9davews0, 6, 1, 2
9Ned of the Hills00, 5, 2, 2
8stefarm1, 0, 7
8Simon Dutton0, 1, 4, 3
7GetaGrip2, 5
7Nigel Sherratt02, 5
7Will1, 6, 0
7Montag Smith3, 2, 0, 2
7Tom Blackburn5, 0, 2, 0
6richard riewer14, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1
5Scots lass5
5FiFiTrixabelle3, 2
5bluefreddy3, 0, 2
5Sue0, 1, 1, 3
4Keen Cook4
3Kristian Short3
3JohnB1, 2
3kf992, 1
3Martin Spencer1, 2
3mjr3, 0
3Paul3, 0
3Bugle1, 0, 2
3guy1531, 2, 0
2Cambridge N2
2David Grimbleby2
2Ewan Duffy0, 2
2RyanM00, 2
2DressageRider0, 0, 0, 2
1James Leary #KBF1
1Mike Collins1
1BJJ1, 0
1Eddie1, 0
1Jonathan Castro1, 0
0Commander Jameson0
0David P0
0Digital Nomad0
0James Bertram0
0James Gittings0
0Jane in France0
0Mrs issedoff0
0Scots lass0
0Sue D0
0hotrod0, 0
0Lockdown_Lunacy0, 0
0peter charles0, 0
0Steve Martindale00, 0
0RichardJames0, 0, 0, 0