2020-07-30

Sourcehttps://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/30/latest-news-89/
Published2020-07-30T00:39:51
Last updated2020-07-31T13:44:18
Scraped2020-12-20T20:18:04
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69470 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 2, #1 of 1806 🔗

Am I first?

69472 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 1, #2 of 1806 🔗

Yes I am…

69474 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 37, #3 of 1806 🔗

Then I’ll begin…by saying : don’t be downhearted. Think we’ve passed the darkest hour. I think the tide is turning and there is a trickle of sentiment in favour of scepticism that might yet turn into a flood.

The death figures are flatlining everywhere and that reality will have to be accepted by everyone eventually.

69477 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 20, #4 of 1806 🔗

“Everyone” includes politicians, health advisors and nutjob epidemiologists from Imperial College. Question for the Woke: why hasn’t Imperial College been closed down because of its fascist war-crime name?

69484 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to OKUK, 16, #5 of 1806 🔗

They’ll probably rename it ‘Thank You NHS College’

69630 ▶▶▶▶▶ ChrisW, replying to OKUK, 8, #6 of 1806 🔗

“Ferguson College”

69742 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to ChrisW, 13, #7 of 1806 🔗

In tribute to the Young Ones, and as a reflection of their standing. Scumbag College seems appropriate

70258 ▶▶▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to OKUK, 1, #8 of 1806 🔗

We’ve got someone from Imperial College doing an online Cafe Scientific event (an evening where someone sciencey gives a talk) in September. He’s Dr Mike Skinner, a virologist, and a “Corona virus expert”.

70275 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #9 of 1806 🔗

Will he be predicting the Second Wave ?

70314 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ goldhoarder, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #10 of 1806 🔗

Tar and feathers? Is there a way to do this virtually? I don’t think it would have the same effect.

69490 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 13, #11 of 1806 🔗

That’s a very good beginning.
I’m beginning to find the waah waah second wave waah waah R number quite funny. Doubleplusgood duckspeak. A noise uttered in unconsciousness. Goldstein is out there, waah waah.

69532 ▶▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to OKUK, 3, #12 of 1806 🔗

I wish I had your optimism OKUK!

69599 ▶▶▶▶ claire, replying to OKUK, 7, #13 of 1806 🔗

I agree. There is a lot more disagreement to the propoganda coming through. FB advert for (think it was UNICEF) to ‘help generation covid’ was full of comments worthy of this site. The tide is definitely turning 🙂

69627 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to claire, 7, #14 of 1806 🔗

Back in March, on another site (Guido Fawkes) I posted why we didn’t need a lockdown, and the downvotes piled in (a couple of other sceptics upvoted). The comments were… interesting.

Within weeks that particular tide was turning and the lockdown zealots, while not gone, tend to ignore rather than engage. That alone is its own victory.

69669 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nick Rose, 4, #15 of 1806 🔗

I may well have been one of those upvotes. I would agree with your assessment, though Guido (Paul & co.) seems to be disturbingly pro-mask (probably because they are diehard Tories first and foremost, and so support the government no matter what farce it is in charge of).

69703 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 4, #16 of 1806 🔗

You probably saw my denunciation. I know you did, you upvoted that one, lol. I’ve been going back to tweak noses though. I love swearing at them: Sweden, Sverige, Belarus…

70045 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul Staines, replying to DoesDimSyniad, -19, #17 of 1806 🔗

Am happy to wear a mask on planes and public transport, hardly a great loss of liberty.

70201 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Paul Staines, 10, #18 of 1806 🔗

Does this mean anything to you Guido?

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

It doesn’t take much imagination to apply it to a potential future (in more than just the UK) if people don’t start refusing to comply with these repugnant measures. Masks take people’s identity from them and make social interactions awkward and unpleasant, in both cases dehumanising and demeaning them. Not to mention that masks don’t even work to protect the wearers or others, though that point is a mere distraction from what really matters…

70720 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ petgor, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #19 of 1806 🔗

An anaesthetist acquaintance of mine likened the current crop of masks to putting bars on your windows to keep out midges.

70403 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to Paul Staines, 1, #20 of 1806 🔗

But what is it achieving? The science is totally contradictory on masks. Where do you think the virus goes when it hits the mask? It becomes a dust particle. That travels too.

Better not to travel at all and just stay at home. Given your logic. I used to be a fan of your blog but have now stopped bothering with it. You and your colleagues seem to struggle with basic logic.

70545 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Paul Staines, 4, #21 of 1806 🔗

You don’t seem to understand the meaning of the word. It’s not about wearing anything, you muppet, it’s about being told to do pointless things.

71327 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Paul Staines, #22 of 1806 🔗

It isn’t Paul.
Until it is.

69663 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to claire, 8, #23 of 1806 🔗

Heard Nick Robinson talking to Hancock this morning on R4 and he did ask some intelligent questions for once re 2nd wave. Hancock just came out with meaningless drivel

69672 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 4, #24 of 1806 🔗

But, on Jeremy Vine there was a piece attempting to demonizing those that had the selfish audacity to go on their holidays…..

70058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to T. Prince, 8, #25 of 1806 🔗

Vine Radio prog is a constant stream of bed wetting crap.

69625 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 8, #26 of 1806 🔗

Sadly, it will be the flurry of P45’s landing on doormats that will be the wake up call :o((

69769 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to OKUK, 9, #27 of 1806 🔗

I may be far too optimistic here but I think Boris Johnson’s “the second wave has started in Europe” at the same day as the WHO announced there isn’t going to be a second wave, followed by the “no second wave” reply from France, was a turning point… either way there definitely seems to be a rising tide of scepticism, and the panic-mongering official narrative has now diverged so far from the actual reality of flatlining deaths and hospital cases, that more and more people are starting to see through it.

70702 ▶▶▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to Drawde927, 1, #28 of 1806 🔗

At every point in this process the people have been ahead of the government.

Social distancing started in early March when the government were all still meeting face to face in close proximity.

At that point, such measures were smart. I remember making a trip to London circa 10 March and I avoided the tube but walked everywhere. Many others were doing similar things already.

Then the government woke up and started taking “decisive” measures after the curve was already turning. Zero surprise that they are doubling down on such measures when true cases (people being ill as opposed to healthy people recording a positive test result that may even be a false positive) have evaporated to almost zero.

They have been behind the curve at every point. They will continue to be.

69796 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to OKUK, 3, #29 of 1806 🔗

I noticed they’ve resumed putting the death numbers up on Wikipedia. They paused them on July 15th when Hancock said there would be an investigation into how they were measured, but they’re now up again and there’s been no adjustment. Does that mean the investigation has been quietly shut down (I find it hard to believe that none of the deaths were miscounted) or is Wikipedia reporting numbers from somewhere else now?

69895 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Andrew Fish, 1, #30 of 1806 🔗

Just means that lying is habitual with them. As if we didn’t know.

69957 ▶▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to OKUK, 2, #31 of 1806 🔗

I agree. I sense a strengthening of scepticism, both in terms of numbers and willingness to speak out.

69616 ▶▶ IanE, replying to OKUK, 2, #32 of 1806 🔗

Primus inter pares!

69476 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 26, #33 of 1806 🔗

I wonder how many of those 21,000 people killed by the lockdown were written down as covid victims…?

69478 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #34 of 1806 🔗

A pertinent point…anyone who tested positive or whose symptoms were described as C19-related by a doc I guess,

70304 ▶▶▶ PastImperfect, replying to OKUK, #35 of 1806 🔗

Surely the doctors also guessing – as good as some of the tests so I understand

69482 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 8, #36 of 1806 🔗

How many of the excess non-covid deaths at home were suicides?

69512 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 4, #37 of 1806 🔗

An easier question would be: how many were not!

69583 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #38 of 1806 🔗

All of them. It keeps it simple.

69483 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 23, #39 of 1806 🔗

I bought the Amazon lanyard early (which arrived in a couple of days) I have never worn it around my neck, produced it twice on Maskup Friday but since then it has remained in my pocket except to show it when having The Converstion with individuals who seem to be not very convinced Covid Compliant.

On Sunday, as I could take my time, I visited 6 non regular shops with no problems at all, no challenges from staff and no hostile looks from fellow shoppers. For the rest of this week I have barely thought about it but it is good to know I have the lanyard just in case.

Might be different if, for some reason, I need to interact with the authorities.

70491 ▶▶ 6097 Smith W, replying to karenovirus, 1, #40 of 1806 🔗

Went Gregg’s today (not much choice on the industrial estate) no one wearing masks everyone but me wearing police uniforms.
Seems the entire West mercia police had stopped by for elevenses

70597 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to 6097 Smith W, 1, #41 of 1806 🔗

Police are exempted in the regs, might be difficult when under cover.

69486 karenovirus, 7, #42 of 1806 🔗

Photo caption

Scruff #1 “thet toff ain’t usin’ ‘and sanitiza”

Posh #1 “how dare you criticize me you scruffy little oik”

Scruff #2 “leave it aart Toby, he ain’t worf it”

Posh #2 “give the scoundrel a thrashing Jacob, teach him some manners”.

69496 Biker, replying to Biker, 77, #43 of 1806 🔗

Skeptics shouldn’t wear a lanyard and should proudly state they don’t wear mask.
That bakers in Nottingham should be paid a visit by he kind of person who feels like confronting the person who refused to sell bread to a 94 year old lady. This despicable person make me puke fucking blood. What an absolute wanker. What has happened to our country?

69502 ▶▶ annie, replying to Biker, 50, #44 of 1806 🔗

What, indeed.
You’re right about the lanyards, of course, but we aren’t all as tough as you, Biker. Every bare face is a defeat for THEM, no matter how it is achieved.
As for the old lady – good God in heaven. But wasn’t there a single person in that infernal shop who would volunteer to pay for her bread?
Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our cardlessness.
But don’t forgive the baker.

69506 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 44, #45 of 1806 🔗

Respectfully Annie i disagree, wearing a lanyard is a cop out. Everyone needs to stay up and be counted. It’s not a case of being tough it’s a case of defending our way of life. Sure if the police chin you about it lie to them, i’m not about to pay the buggers 100 quid but everyone else needs to hear you. That bakers will suffer on the karma wheel, no doubt about it. I can’t imagine letting an old lady of 94 walk out the door of your shop without a loaf of bread. I really hope the owners of this shop are exposed and made to suffer a loss of business from the local community whom should be disgusted by the way they’ve treated such an old lady. The owners should be apologising to her and offering to deliver her free bread for the rest of her days, then maybe i’d consider their debt paid but unless they do that i wish them nothing but hard times.

69517 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Biker, 23, #46 of 1806 🔗

What if those nice blue badges Toby illustrates had the ‘Thank you for understanding’ with ‘Now fuck off’?

I could possibly go for one of those, on days when I’m in a compliant mood.

But I think you are right about the lanyards – it’s giving too much ground, when unnecessary.

Having said that, a maskless shopper with a lanyard is better than a muzzled one. The lanyards do have the effect of subverting this nonsense, to the point where muzzles will eventually be optional.

I find that bakery story hard to believe. Is it actually true? Astonishing if it is. The shop assistant should crawl on their hands and knees to that lady and apologise.

It’s depressing down here in Deepest Devon. Almost exactly 100% muzzle compliance, and I’ve been on retail premises every day since last Friday. Me aside, on Friday there were two BAMEs (hate that word, but there we are) in Tesco, and on Sunday one girl. And that’s it, from hundreds of people in Tesco, Morrisons, M&S, Lloyds Bank, Coop …

And to think, the ships and mariners who sailed out and discovered the world were disproportionally from here, and my parents and grandparents took the full-on blitz.

69522 ▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to TJN, 7, #47 of 1806 🔗

I should think that the government will already be working on a more stringent exemptions system in order to (a) prevent ‘abuse’ (b) respond to public pressure to enforce compliance by dissidents (c) to neutralise criticism that their current “shaming” policy catches people with genuine ‘excuses’.

I should think they will produce an exemption card that can only be obtained after a trip to the doctor. It won’t say what your ‘excuse’ is (that would be insensitive), but it will be verifiable by a policeman with a QR scanner on his phone. Cressida’s army of civilian warriors can then “shame” maskless people with confidence, and the government will know there will be no more unfortunate stories in the tabloids. If a maskless person is killed, no problem – it will ‘encourage les autres’.

69542 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Barney McGrew, 18, #48 of 1806 🔗

Well that’s the nightmare. I may be being complacent, but I can’t think it will come to pass.

Thing is, there is no way doctors have the time to sort all this. You can’t get a doctor’s appointment now, so the backlog caused by something like this would be monstrous.

By the time this was sorted the whole thing will have collapsed, if only because of the economic consequences.

I’ve always thought the government were on very weak ground with the muzzles thing and had overplayed their hand.

69545 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to TJN, 12, #49 of 1806 🔗

I should add that this government are absolutely unbelievably incompetent. Sooner or later they are going to make some absolutely monumental FU, which can’t be ignored.

69577 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to TJN, 11, #50 of 1806 🔗

Erm, the lockdown..?

69592 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #51 of 1806 🔗

Yes, true. I suppose that’s sooo gigantic it’s almost incomprehendible yet. Still, in time it won’t be.

Maybe it’s my wishful thinking, but with their making mistake and after mistake, how long can it be before everyone notices?

69629 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to TJN, 11, #52 of 1806 🔗

I’m not sure it’s going to work like that. I think that what we have is a press and woke establishment that despises the government but loves the lockdown; half the electorate hates the government but likes the lockdown, and half the electorate likes the government and likes the lockdown.

Every government action is in the context of the biggest FU of all time – the lockdown, but nobody except a very small bunch of ‘conspiracy theorists’ and ‘armchair epidemiologists’ (us) knows it’s a FU. The woke establishment embraces the lockdown – it’s all their wet dreams come true.

So the only way the opposition can/will get at the government is to criticise it on small operational matters – lockdown was imposed 6.8 days too late, not enough PPE in April and crap like that. Larger, more monumental FUs will be ignored because to criticise them for those would be to jeopardise the public/establishment unity on the lockdown, and they can’t risk that.

Or something like that, anyway!

69654 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #53 of 1806 🔗

For example, PHE fiddling the deaths figures in plain sight and being caught out for it was a MAJOR FU. But the government will not suffer for it, because going on about it would break the spell of the lockdown and ongoing communist-style measures and that can’t be allowed to happen. It will already have disappeared into the Guardian and BBC’s memory holes.

69807 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #54 of 1806 🔗

Yes, you are correct – a major scandal which in any other times would have led to Hancock’s head on a plate.

Still, we do have the coming economic crash to rescue us.

69799 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to TJN, 3, #55 of 1806 🔗

I think that that will be reliant on the media telling the effing truth for once

69675 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to TJN, 5, #56 of 1806 🔗

But, but Fauci in the US is now saying masks aren’t enough….goggles AND those visor things!!!!!!!

69783 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ zacaway, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #57 of 1806 🔗

I don’t think the government will bother with that. Not a single ‘no mask’ fine has been issued to date, which I suspect is deliberate because:

a) the government doesn’t want to risk someone mounting a legal challenge to being prosecuted (e.g. show the “science” that justifies a curtailment on human rights). (Someone really determined could refuse to pay the fine and take it to court).

b) they figured out from earlier social experiments in the lockdown that they can rely on useful idiots to generally enforce policy, without having to get their hands dirty themselves (via the police)

70436 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to zacaway, 1, #58 of 1806 🔗

They issue the edicts and demand that the lower orders enforce them. Pontius Pilates, the whole lot of them.

70602 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to zacaway, #59 of 1806 🔗

Not working, from experience and that of other posters the masked are not shaming the unmasked as was expected.

69896 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, #60 of 1806 🔗

Trip to the doctor? ??

70279 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #61 of 1806 🔗

That’s the way it is everywhere else already.
But Brits are too afraid of acting conspicuously, and so, the compliance nears 99% already.
Therefore, I have hope that they will refrain from doing so.
Because they have nothing to gain from it, and they keep a door open (electorally/blame wise) in case the wind starts to blow from the other direction.
As it eventually will.

70242 ▶▶▶▶▶ jak, replying to TJN, #62 of 1806 🔗

Maybe it’s a Southwest thing, down here in Cornwall I have been the only muzzle-free person in all of the shops I have been in (with the exception of a couple of shop assistants). The most depressing thing is seeing nearly all of the staff wearing them as well, it’s encouraging this lunacy.

69579 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Biker, 28, #63 of 1806 🔗

If I was in range, I would have been straight round to have a word, and try to deliver the lady’s bread. But the best bit is, they couldn’t take her money – because obviously you will instantly die if you touch it – so she “had to put her items back”. Presumably they shut the shop to fumigate it.
Fuckweasels.

69581 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #64 of 1806 🔗

Just by way of public information:

29 Front Street
Arnold
NG5 7EA
Tel: 0115 926 8203

69598 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #65 of 1806 🔗

Also 01332 361 316 and getintouch@birdsofderby.co.uk

69619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #66 of 1806 🔗

HI, yes I would like to make a BIG order please, payment on delivery OK?
Yes drop it at the bus stop just outside my house, I am self isolating….

69673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 1, #67 of 1806 🔗

Hang on (brain begins to turn slowly); they can’t touch her filthy, infected money, so how do they hand over any goods?

69648 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #68 of 1806 🔗

I’d go in, pick lots and lots of items, let them tot up, offer cash… If they want me to put them all back, I think we all know what the answer would be.

69662 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #69 of 1806 🔗

You would just put them down, wouldn’t you, Nick? After you’d licked them of course 🙂

69667 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, #70 of 1806 🔗

Had to check I’d spelt “picked” correctly just then 😉 🤣 🤣

69897 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #71 of 1806 🔗

I thought cash was legal tender and shops HAD to accept it?

70921 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ InfiniteDissent, replying to annie, #72 of 1806 🔗

That’s a misconception. Legal tender only applies in the situation where there is an existing debt (e.g. you’ve eaten in a restaurant and you now need to pay the bill).

In a shop there is no pre-existing debt, so the legal tender rules don’t apply. The shop can just decline the transaction altogether.

69680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #73 of 1806 🔗

I don’t think encouraging a form of vigilanteeism is helpful. We don’t know all the details or even if it’s true at all. If we encourage people to abuse individual people or businesses based on random news articles it’s no different than the cancelling leftist hate mobs or the shaming culture people on this site generally abhor. Let’s be above that.

70082 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Achilles, 2, #74 of 1806 🔗

Read front page of their website NO CASH, my Grandad would spin in his grave he used to supply them with Pork as they were the big Pork Butchers in MANSFIELD and Sutton in Ashfield.

69789 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Sam Vimes, #75 of 1806 🔗

There is a facebook site for Birds Bakery in Derby and lots of comments against the bakery. I’d post a link but can’t see obvious way to do this. Think they may regret this unfortunate incident.

69594 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Biker, 2, #76 of 1806 🔗

Agreed about the baker but how about Subway who would not give her a cup of coffee as they are also card only ?

69551 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Biker, 19, #77 of 1806 🔗

People in Nottingham should be boycotting that bakery. It’s absolutely despicable behaviour and discriminatory as well.

69595 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Biker, 14, #78 of 1806 🔗

It isn’t about the virus, although I absolutely agree with you. It’s about the agenda to remove cash and enforce card payment, so that all currency transactions can be tracked.

69622 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to RichardJames, 7, #79 of 1806 🔗

That’s a conspiracy theory.

69803 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Two-Six, 4, #80 of 1806 🔗

‘Doesn’t mean that there isn’t a conspiracy!

69836 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Biker, #81 of 1806 🔗

You can drop head office an email if you feel like it:

getintouch@birdsofderby.co.uk

or give the Arnold branch a call:

0115 926 8203

70064 ▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Biker, 2, #82 of 1806 🔗

Nottinghamshire born and bred I will never darken their doors again.

70309 ▶▶ steve, replying to Biker, 6, #83 of 1806 🔗

A friend managed after 4 months to get a hospital check up about a wound on his face. Turns out it’s cancerous. Told the waiting list is 40 months. Yes that’s months.

Fckin NHs and fck parliament. Not just the government. They are useless fckers but also the opposition party who have sat their and said nothing to question or hold the Gov to account.

The last man to enter parliament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes

71243 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Biker, #84 of 1806 🔗

Yes, anyone who lives in Nottingham of LS persuasion should be picketing the place

69503 Clive, 1, #85 of 1806 🔗

Toby, In your ‘Round-up’ section, why do you include items about some rapper, Megan Wossname, Rupert Murdoch and JK Rowling? Is there a link with Covidiocy that I’m not seeing?

69505 Barney McGrew, 7, #86 of 1806 🔗

Looking forward to the link to Guy’s piece being fixed….

69507 annie, replying to annie, 27, #87 of 1806 🔗

Had another thought about hand poison.
Of course it won,t stop Covid. But it is meant to kill bacteria, and surely sloshing it about will greatly encourage bacterial resistance?
There could be some real nasties out there very soon.

69524 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to annie, 8, #88 of 1806 🔗

That was actually ‘a thing’ before Covid, so it must be much worse now.

69624 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to annie, 6, #89 of 1806 🔗

Anit-bacterial resistant bacteria, what could possible go wrong?

69651 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 7, #90 of 1806 🔗

I always argue that nothing beats soap and water. Tried ‘n’ tested for centuries.

69678 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to annie, 4, #91 of 1806 🔗

I did here last week that the latest ‘symptom’ of covid is skin rash. Te most sensible said this is probably due to overuse of gels!!

69848 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to annie, 6, #92 of 1806 🔗

The hand wash for Covid should contain 60%. Antibacterial wash DOES NOT work. Unfortunately some uninformed well-meaning individuals provides antibacterials. Yes antibacterials could lead to bacterial resistance, stay away from it. Always read the labels and do not use if you do not agree with the ingredients. Reminder that skin absorbs chemicals eg hormone, nicotine patches

69508 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 19, #93 of 1806 🔗

https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/45d7e185530eab2041877346c671bc89?s=64&d=blank&r=g
wendyk
1 hour ago

2 anecdotes from Sturgeon land: think Kafka/Catch 22/ Great Leap Forward:

met an acquaintance recently who works at our much loved, but no longer accessible, local library.

Although the council website still claims that library services are closed until further notice, Sturgeon sanctioned reopening on July 15th.

Our conversation revealed the mad guidelines now operating: readers must now ring a general number-the library’s own number is out of action- to request a book.

However, reservations for titles from other libraries cannot be accepted and appointments must be made to appear at an agreed time to collect a book.

General access is still forbidden. The staff now fear that these arcane nonsensical restrictions will be used as cover for cuts to services and even closures.

The library here runs training classes for adults, free computer access,story sessions for very young children, exhibitions and various community groups.

It is widely used and has a marvellous DVD collection and the normal service is excellent.

The average reader is unlikely to be a plague ridden, vandal intent on a bit of antisocial behaviour in the crime section, so why are we not allowed entry?

Secondly, finally received an appointment by text from local beautician for much needed facial tidying up.

List of instructions in text, plus friendly greeting.

Turned up, another lady waiting, admitted, asked to take seats suitably distanced.
Temperatures taken, all masked except for me.
Then, the piece de resistance: Covid questionnaire in triplicate, list of open questions:identity, contact, travel, symptoms etc.

Totally useless and open to making it up as you go along and where will the forms go?

Therapists hate the masks, as does the other customer; their expenses have increased- forms, masks,plastic items, sanitisers, deep cleaning of treatment rooms between sessions, fewer customers and longer working hours to compensate.

Fortunately, this little business is secure with a loyal customer base, but what a piece of nonsense all this is.

The therapists are now dreading the winter with its attendant infections: how will they cope? Will staff be sent home if they sneeze?

Another suspension of service unthinkable.

Meanwhile young people here cannot sit their exams, their future plans are in disarray, jobs are vanishing and masks and gloves are being dumped everywhere.

And now the Holyrood Headbangers have a new hate crime bill in the pipeline which, if reports are to be believed, will gag our thoughts as well as our speech and our actions.
Welcome to the unhappy tartan dystopia folks.

Pasted this from yesterday’s post,as I hope fellow sceptics will note just how surreal all this is now.

69511 ▶▶ Biker, replying to wendyk, 5, #94 of 1806 🔗

The Scottish Nazi Party, hate them. It’s cool though because most scots are illiterate drunks who all sound like a gas has been dropped and left them semi-conscious won’t notice their draconian laws, it’s those of us who can think that suffer.

69575 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Biker, 4, #95 of 1806 🔗

Trouble is Biker, there is no serious opposition. George Galloway is apparently leading the charge of the unionist brigade, but can he be trusted?

Until now, I’ve regarded his past activities with suspicion and dislike, but if he’s the only act in town, what should we do?

The Sturgeonauts are awful: my library acquaintance loathes them as much as I do, but most people here are compliant and taken in by the weekly spin sessions form Holyrood.

69597 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to wendyk, 2, #96 of 1806 🔗

I read effie to try to keep my spirits up. On fire today https://www.effiedeans.com/2020/07/the-last-cult-of-personality-in-europe.html

69611 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to kf99, #97 of 1806 🔗

So do I!

69641 ▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 2, #98 of 1806 🔗

Replied to your post on yesterdays thread just before the grest move. Here’s my reply – they want to change young minds.

Might I make a suggestion re Libraries. Your new abnormal has seized libraries for the front line in the woking of our childrens minds.

Perhaps it is well lifraries remain closed if the below manner of physop is unleasted from them: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/arts-and-culture/books/lets-get-fabulous-edinburgh-libraries-welcomes-drag-queen-story-hour-2885341%3famp
The Edinburgh Libraries have booked the act again for next year. Yes Aida H Dee is as unfunny as it is unbelievable.

One Drag act has said openly that this is as sick as it seems since the scene of drag is ‘on the seedier side of ‘adult’.

But good news from Leeds – https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-leeds-53164255

69706 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 4, #99 of 1806 🔗

Sickening! How low can they go? Of course Mhairi Black tried this with one Flow Job reading explicit stories to very young children in primary schools in her constituency :

https://reaction.life/mhairi-black-flowjob-the-drag-queen-and-an-unfortunate-incident-at-a-paisley-primary-school/

69723 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 4, #100 of 1806 🔗

The pattern reveals the attack. It’s not by chance. Try to break the family unit as a means to destabilise society – it comes from communist methodology.
More education from SNP
https://youtu.be/ujePAmm5uK4

Instinctively parents know this is wrong. It cannot be argued it is diversity since it is only drag acts that are used. Notice bbc billboards have been up around Britain during lickdown advertising drag tv programme. Inflating idols by the bbc.

Realised i’m off topic. Sorry!

69767 ▶▶▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 2, #101 of 1806 🔗

What is so worrying is that ultimately, this could lead to a resurgence of sick outfits like the infamous Paedophile Information Exchange.

And not really off topic if all this is done under Covid Cover as the New Normal.

Since this bunch apparently celebrate diversity-as long as it’s the correct kind on the intersectional list of in or out-what’s to stop the diversity agenda embracing those with decidedly suspect sexual preferences?

All OK as long as they wear masks 🤢

69786 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 1, #102 of 1806 🔗

Who better to wear a mask that this https://youtu.be/P_GOr71quwU

Yes not off topic. This library based story time for children was intended to be in a Library. Covid lockup stopped that. Instead it was broad cast via Facebook. Primary children on Facebook? Really. I mean how evil is Edinburgh Council.

Their correct kind of diversity includes undermining estsblished roles parents. In my opinion the ideals of PIE is alive and well closer to the Scottish Government than people think.

69798 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Basics, 2, #103 of 1806 🔗

the BLM manifesto also has objective to break up the traditional family unit. Same agenda!

69809 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to wendyk, 5, #104 of 1806 🔗

Yes, the SNP hate crime bill is very real and has caused tremendous stir. It’s only in committee and has had a great deal of backlash, so hopefully it will be chucked in the bin where it belongs.

As for your beautician…. well then they should stop doing all that nonsense really, shouldn’t they? They really can’t bitch and moan about going out of business for willfully complying with asinine government GUIDELINE. No sympathy for the stupid. They deserve to fail for embracing victimhood.

69866 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to TyLean, 4, #105 of 1806 🔗

This is unfair Tylean: the beauticians were neither bitching nor moaning, rather , the one whom I saw merely confided that they were finding the list of requirements intrusive and costly.

Small business owners are in a cleft stick, especially beauticians who have very close contact with their customers.

If they were to take the route of open refusal to adopt all these silly measures they could be reported to environmental health bods, sanctioned or shut down.

So they are not embracing victimhood but doing their best to make the most of a bad lot and to introduce some common sense with the more sceptical customers like me.

They’re hoping, like many other small enterprises here, that eventually rationality will win the day.

I’ve been going to them for many years and will continue to support them.

69941 ▶▶ Ed Turnbull, replying to wendyk, 3, #106 of 1806 🔗

Wendy, re the questionnaire you were asked to complete, and any other such future nonsense. Before providing a single bit of personal information ask, nay demand , to see their data protection impact assessment. Under GDPR an organisation is required to carry out a DPIA before collecting any personal data. If the organisation is unable to produce its DPIA tell them you’ll be reporting them to the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) as they’re collecting data illegally, and do report them. I believe the fines for being non-compliant with GDPR can be quite steep.

I hate to see small businesses suffer, but their supine compliance with the insanity is prolonging the suffering for those of us who can see this venomous pantomime for what it is.

69509 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 5, #107 of 1806 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-53589817 cannot be correct because “the science” shows that lockdowns and masks work. Is that pesky virus somehow getting cleverer and getting throughletterboxes ? Maybe all windows need to closed at all times.

69510 ▶▶ Sally, replying to arfurmo, 8, #108 of 1806 🔗

Stupid Australians (I am one) thought that the first lockdown worked even though the cases peaked a couple of days before it was announced. Now they’re puzzled because nothing seems to be working so, yes, closing all windows could be next on the agenda.

69683 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sally, 3, #109 of 1806 🔗

It could be a post hoc fallacy. Because B followed A, it doesn’t mean that A caused B. Lockdowns don’t work.

69820 ▶▶▶▶ AngryEmails, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #110 of 1806 🔗

Britain shows a nice case of this, unless lockdowns can propagate BACKWRDS IN TIME they haven’t worked. Counting back from the death peak by three weeks shows infection rates were falling several days before lockdown got illegally declared, Simon Wood has an excellent paper on doing this and accounting for error bars and variability in how long the infection-death time can be to show that the simple “counting back” still holds when you factor in the full shapes of the curves and the uncertainties.

69514 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to arfurmo, 16, #111 of 1806 🔗

Can somebody produce the % tests positive graph, rather than the ridiculous “cases” graph? i.e. the same data divided by the number of tests carried out? It isn’t perfect (we don’t know exactly how the testing criteria have changed over time) but it would be a lot more useful than that garbage graph.

It’s this sort of thing that really, really annoys me. The journalist creating the piece has no idea of the significance of the graph, and nor do the readers. But they do this dance of whipping each other up into a frenzy over data they don’t understand. The politicians and their corrupt ‘experts’ are only too happy to omit the details and let that happen.

Anyone like me, who might query this when talking to friends, family and colleagues, is regarded with pity: an ‘armchair epidemiologist’, a ‘conspiracy theorist’. They would rather credit an anonymous junior BBC ‘journalist’ with more insight than an actual person they know.

69520 ▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #112 of 1806 🔗

You can see a % positive graph for NSW and Victoria on this page (about half-way down):

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/ng-interactive/2020/jul/28/coronavirus-australia-map-cases-covid-19-tracking-stats-live-data-update-by-state-how-many-new-active-case-numbers-today-statistics-hotspots-corona-deaths-death-toll

Victoria currently has nearly 100% of the cases in Australia, as you probably know.

69538 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Sally, 4, #113 of 1806 🔗

Thanks for the link. But can somebody help me here? It says next to the graph

A lower % is indicative of wider, less-targeted testing.Generally the % positive rate in Australia is lower than many other countries, well below the threshold that the WHO has reccomended for adequate testing.

And the WHO link says:
…one important way to understand if countries are testing sufficiently is to look at the share of tests returning a positive result – known as the positive rate….Countries with a very high positive rate are unlikely to be testing widely enough to find all cases. The WHO has suggested a positive rate of around 3–12% as a general benchmark of adequate testing.

Does this not seem perverse? What we seem to be seeing here, is a system that targets a fixed percentage of positive tests, rather than simply testing to find out what the percentage of positives is!

69541 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #114 of 1806 🔗

Yes. By this measure, the UK testing programme – at ~250k per day – is inadequate, because it’s returning only ~0.5% positives a day

69547 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to matt, 6, #115 of 1806 🔗

It might be the other way round, actually. The WHO is saying that it if it’s too high, it’s inadequate testing – too targeted. But I think this is meaningless. If the population is 100% infected then you can only get 100% no matter how many you test. If the population is only 0.5% infected then the answer you get should be 0.5%. If you are tempted to change your testing regime to get it to the WHO’s ‘recommended’ level – and make your spike look worse in the process – then this is perverse.

I guess it depends why you are doing the testing. I am most interested in randomised testing that tells us the proportion of infectious people in the population. The WHO is maybe aiming for something else. They actually say “… unlikely to be testing widely enough to find all cases”.
I thought that this was debunked ages ago: you can’t find all “cases” unless you test the entire population every couple of days. Randomised sample testing will let you infer how many “cases” there are, but it won’t identify them individually.

69550 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #116 of 1806 🔗

This is the best place to go for updates regarding the situation in Australia: https://www.health.gov.au/resources/collections/coronavirus-covid-19-at-a-glance-infographic-collection

Alternatively, you could try the Victorian Health Department specifically for Victoria:
https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/coronavirus

The infographic shows Victoria’s % positive is 0.6, which is extremely low from a global perspective, despite almost a quarter of the population having been tested, but the highest in Australia. It has not yet been updated for the 30th though (or at least not when I looked just now).

Given that such a high proportion of Victoria’s population has been tested, the WHO clearly has no clue as usual. If the rate of infection is that low, then it is that low – I guess their idea is that most of the rest of Victoria’s population of 6.3 million or so must have it, and haven’t been tested yet 🙄

69628 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #117 of 1806 🔗

Brainwashed fools.

69689 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #118 of 1806 🔗

Can I recommend a book? Darrell Huff: “How To Lie With Statistics”. Very, VERY illuminating!

https://amzn.to/3fcL7Fd

69826 ▶▶▶ AngryEmails, replying to Barney McGrew, #119 of 1806 🔗

Percentage positive cases graphs are about as useless as total cases, very few places have enough testing resources to test a large random sample of people, so because in most places most of the people being tested are suspected of having covid their are enough other factors in play (scale of testing, targetedness of testing, how less likely cases become viable to test when testing infrastructure gets bigegr over time…) to mask any useful information both on graphs of cases found and on graphs of percentages of positive cases. The best way to work is look at deaths, multiply by 400 or so and count back three weks.

70221 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to AngryEmails, 2, #120 of 1806 🔗

Need to look at excess deaths only – the criteria for ‘Covid-19’ deaths differ from place to place after all. Australia needs many many times more deaths for there to even be a blip in the graph. Last year, South Australia alone had 120,000 laboratory-confirmed cases of flu, and there were thousands of deaths around Australia. They don’t tell you that though, as it would show just how minor this coronavirus really is.

69534 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to arfurmo, 10, #121 of 1806 🔗

Contrary to the beeb’s nonsense it’s not a second wave of course – what they’re calling the first wave in Australia (April/May) had very little community transmission and so wasn’t really a ‘wave’ at all. What’s been going on in Melbourne, that is Australia’s first wave, and the number of hospitalisations and deaths is frankly amusingly low for all the fuss being made about it.

69539 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #122 of 1806 🔗

While that’s true, I’m scratching my head a little as to why it’s _only_ Victoria. In terms of seasonality and lack of herd immunity, the rest of Australia should be in exactly the same position.

69568 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to matt, #123 of 1806 🔗

Gross incompetence and corruption in the Victorian state ‘government’, that’s why. Each state is a law unto itself at the moment, and there is no coordinated national policy. The Australian government seems quite happy to let it be that way too.

69574 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #124 of 1806 🔗

I’ve no doubt you’re right, but it doesn’t explain why infections aren’t increasing outside Victoria – unless the other states’ governments are so competent that they’re not even testing anyone.

69585 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to matt, 1, #125 of 1806 🔗

They are increasing in Sydney, so it is said, but it’s hard to know for sure. New South Wales has a Liberal (i.e. more competent or less incompetent if you prefer) government and has been relatively measured in its approach (though still implementing lockdown originally, it was rather less draconian than Victoria’s).
The other states have closed their borders to Victorians (South Australia even to South Australians who were interstate!), which is illegal/unconstitutional, but as I said the Australian government seems content to just let it go. It is pretty strictly enforced, so that likely has something to do with it.

69596 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to matt, 3, #126 of 1806 🔗

The Victorian government have blamed the outbreak on “leakage” from quarantine of incoming travellers. Most or all of the other States and Territories used the defence and police forces for overseeing the security of the quarantine but Victoria engaged a private security firm. There was some misbehaviour like one of the guards having sex with a quarantined person. That is on the face of it why Victoria is having an outbreak and not the rest of Australia. I don’t really know what to believe. There is a lot of politicking going on – preening and blame-shifting – and I’m not 100% convinced that there wasn’t some ongoing low level of infection in the community all the time that spiked up.

As to testing, there is a lot of it, all over Australia. The country has, in my opinion, wasted vast sums of money on it. Also we have spent a fortune on contact tracing, and it was recently revealed that there are up to 9 unidentified cases for every 1 confirmed case. This was determined from serology testing and testing of blood donations; the details are yet to be finalised but one of the public health officials revealed the broad outlines. So for all that we are testing and tracing we’re still only picking up a small fraction of cases.

69694 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #127 of 1806 🔗

Well it was always a rather loose Commonwealth. An Aussie friend from Western Australia once pointed out that the only things that unite all Aussies are cricket and rugby.

75315 ▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #128 of 1806 🔗

I’m betting that there was community transmission early in the year but we never noticed. We would have barely noticed had we done nothing.

69635 ▶▶ Marcus, replying to arfurmo, 4, #129 of 1806 🔗

prompting fears that a six-week lockdown of state capital Melbourne is not working

There are fears now that Melbourne’s lockdown…will need to be extended

Cancel your licence fee. Boycott this disgraceful Orwellian propaganda.

69677 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Marcus, 4, #130 of 1806 🔗

Or we can point out that Melbourne’s lockdown isn’t working because locking down the healthy doesn’t work. If it did, we would have been doing it for centuries.

69681 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Marcus, 3, #131 of 1806 🔗

It’s not Orwellian propaganda, it’s precisely what the Woke Victorian government is saying, still too incompetent to realise that lockdown, if anything, will spread the virus, not suppress it.

69901 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Marcus, 3, #132 of 1806 🔗

It’s not working so they want to extend it?

69916 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to annie, 2, #133 of 1806 🔗

Well naturally, more lockdown has got to work since it’s only selfish Victorians disobeying that have caused it, not government corruption and incompetence at all 🙄 🙄 🙄
If you haven’t already I can recommend Guy de la Bédoyère’s piece here where he talks about Victoria and Melbourne – he doesn’t mince words either!

70931 ▶▶▶▶ InfiniteDissent, replying to annie, -1, #134 of 1806 🔗

Lockdowns are like alternative medicine. If they don’t work, you just need to do more of them.

69759 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to arfurmo, 1, #135 of 1806 🔗

‘Close the windows’, nope, govment bloke on R4 Today finally saying that good ventilation was key to fighting off the Covid.

69513 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 66, #136 of 1806 🔗

Perhaps we need to ask our less sceptical friends: In what ways is our country not a dystopian police state?

People told where they are allowed to go? Check.
People told who they can meet? Check.
Gatherings banned? Check.
State tracks people’s whereabouts? Check.
Censorship of opinions, political views? Check.
Police enforce government ‘instructions’? Check.
Population forced to wear badges of support for government? Check.
Media acts as mouthpiece for government propaganda? Check.
Government lies with statistics? Check.
Population encouraged to inform on friends and neighbours? Check.
Anonymous monetary transactions banned? Check.
State-sanctioned “shaming” of dissidents? Check.
Mandatory medical procedures? Inevitable.
State-controlled economy? Inevitable.

69536 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #137 of 1806 🔗

This is great Barney. Do you mind if I still this and include part of it in a blog that I’m about to write to share with my friends? I’m worried that some of them are going along with the mask thing as they think it’s only short term, which I think is really naive.

69540 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Moomin, 2, #138 of 1806 🔗

Thanks Kevin. Fine by me.

69543 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #139 of 1806 🔗

Thank you. I was just thinking of something along the same lines when I was out walking the dog just now, they’ve told us who we can meet, when, how, how to work, how to travel, how to pay, how to think, how to behave and, the last straw for me, what to wear! Insanity! Those flouting the rules were called covidiots at the outset, yet the truth is that the covidiots are making the policies.

69562 ▶▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Moomin, 4, #140 of 1806 🔗

Don’t forget ‘they’

The
Hierarchy
Enslaving
You

69610 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, 1, #141 of 1806 🔗

Kevin, not to belittle your efforts, but make sure you look up the actual legislation and the government ‘guidance’. The latter is chock full of contradictions.

69613 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #142 of 1806 🔗

OK, thanks. Yeah, the contradictions are insane!

69633 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Moomin, 9, #143 of 1806 🔗

The UK has been a dystopian fascist police state for a long time. It’s just that its been low level and targeted so nobody really noticed. It was all happing to somebody else “who deserved it”. Now it’s so obviously a totalitarian police state that nobody WANTS to notice.

69600 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Barney McGrew, 21, #144 of 1806 🔗

This is great, mind if I use it also?

Got really angry at work yesterday. Bearing in mind everything you have listed above, I got a load of arse-ache from people not quite understanding how this shit-show (as ever, s’cuse language) has impacted my business and how I have been forced to change things. Don’t get me wrong, I am happy that I am busy. But boy, when someone’s day is apparently ruined because I no longer offer a full menu rather than being ruined by what it should be ruined by, as in living in a dystopian nightmare, it’s a pretty depressing state of affairs.

69605 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 10, #145 of 1806 🔗

Happy to have all their rights removed, but narked cos they can’t have apple pie or whatever? Do you know what, I can’t even finish this…

69614 ▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #146 of 1806 🔗

Neil Oliver hit this nail on the head. The lockdown is making people angry (hence statue pulling etc) and now masking makes human interaction even more like anonymous social media. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NaqaTEhDQc

69636 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kf99, 3, #147 of 1806 🔗

And they are channelling that anger the wrong way, because their fear doesn’t let them point it in the obvious direction. Boy, Boris and pals are getting bang for their buck.

69657 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 18, #148 of 1806 🔗

I’m angry because other people aren’t angry. What the hell is wrong with these people?

69679 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 9, #149 of 1806 🔗

I think, KH, it’s as simple as most people are stupid. Sad but true.

69685 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #150 of 1806 🔗

If one includes “intelligent but too lazy to find out the truth for yourself” in the definition of stupid, then I agree. I was talking to a young man yesterday who believes all the lies, hopes for a vaccine or whatever, otherwise happy to carry on with this shit (helps that his job is not affected), IQ must be 120+. I find those people more annoying than the fearful or the genuinely thick.

69729 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Julian, 1, #151 of 1806 🔗

Surely, that intelligence is what makes you seek out that truth? Apparently not. Or maybe it’s that “intelligent, but no life sense” kind of thing. You would think, that when confronted with a never-before assault on our lives and livelihoods, the immediate thought would be “How do I avoid this?” Seems not.

69843 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 1, #152 of 1806 🔗

intelligent but too lazy to find out the truth for yourself

Functionally stupid.

70234 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Mark, #153 of 1806 🔗

Different types of stupid:

Naturally stupid, which can of course coincide with a functional intelligence (common sense or street smarts or whatever) ameliorating the effects

Wilfully stupid, like Julian’s definition and the worst kind, usually beyond redemption

Ignorantly stupid, which relates to those who do not realise they do not know very much – this can of course be rectified.

There may be others I haven’t thought of.

69753 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 5, #154 of 1806 🔗

I’m angry because other people aren’t angry’, that’s a great way of putting it Kh,it’s exactly the way I feel,some people even seem happy about everything,they are enjoying it !.I want to grab hold of them and shake some sense into them but my wife says it probably best if I don’t !.
I genuinely feel despair about the population of this country.

69764 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 4, #155 of 1806 🔗

Well, the salt beef/bread woman tipped me over the edge yesterday and I did point out to her that we are trying to run a business in bonkers times. Totally went over her head though.

I’ve said it before, people are lulled by the good weather into being anaesthetised from the bollocks. I feel like I’m in in a bloody Stepford Wives film.

69792 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 4, #156 of 1806 🔗

It’s almost like something has been put in the water or sprayed in the air and people are now in a strange detached trance-like state where they notice the most trivial things and make a big fuss but are utterly oblivious to the unfolding disaster around them.Luckily some of us are immune to this surreal intoxication,but everyday things seem a bit worse.

69813 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 1, #157 of 1806 🔗

That’s exactly it.

I am now giving people the side-eye and shaking my head at anyone who jumps into the path of an oncoming car to distance themselves from my potentially plague-ridden body!

70520 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Paul, #158 of 1806 🔗

Read Ionesco’s play ‘Rhinoceros’.

70523 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Paul, #159 of 1806 🔗
70517 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to kf99, #160 of 1806 🔗

How about Jamie Oliver?

69631 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #161 of 1806 🔗

I know, the cow got pissed off because I don’t offer three types of bread and we no longer offer salt beef. Can you bloody believe it …

69637 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kh1485, 1, #162 of 1806 🔗

What’s wrong with salt beef? Why can’t you sell what you want to sell? What are the rules?

69638 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Two-Six, 3, #163 of 1806 🔗

Don’t poke the bear!!!

69640 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Two-Six, 6, #164 of 1806 🔗

Sorry, my crap writing. What I meant was that I have had to reduce my menu offering so no more salt beef which is what she wanted. But boo, hoo, she couldn’t have what she wanted so she threw a hissy fit!

69760 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 3, #165 of 1806 🔗

Yes,I can believe it,after thirty years of dealing with the public nothing surprises me anymore

69515 Steve Martindale, 1, #166 of 1806 🔗

I thought it had disappeared but they have started to talk about the ‘R’ rate again and here in the south west it could be above 1, shock horror, the apocalypse is upon us! It surprises me that everybody seems to accept these announcements without question, as if the powers that be sit round like Macbeth’s witches, eye of newt and toe of frog and out pops the R number never to be questioned.
It seems very hard to find out how they calculate this number and what has changed when it goes up or down? I get the feeling it is a more subjective process than they would like to admit. As it is, it seems just another factor that was supposed to be helpful but is actually being used to beat us. Why is nobody questioning the R rate business?

P.S. any idea why I keep getting awaiting approval tag when I post?

69516 Cassandra, 3, #167 of 1806 🔗

My neighbour writing from Derry aka Londonderry is right about our more relaxed attitude here in Northern Ireland. Why have thought it? My theory is that having lived through 30 years of a violent terrorist campaign we understand genuine risk.

69519 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 6, #168 of 1806 🔗

Morning, I need to go to the opticians and they’re saying I will be required to wear a mask, obviously I won’t be doing that but do the guidelines state that I should or is it like hairdressers where the client doesn’t have to?

69523 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Moomin, 6, #169 of 1806 🔗

I think it’s at their discretion Kevin, judging from notices seen in local opticians: mine declares that masks must be worn, while a nearby practice is more welcoming,in that advice to follow the guidelines is displayed.

69535 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to wendyk, #170 of 1806 🔗

Thanks.

69553 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to wendyk, 12, #171 of 1806 🔗

I’m getting concerned about glaucoma tests. I’m overdue an eye test, which is fine in that my prescription is still perfectly OK, but concerning because that means I’m also overdue a glaucoma test (my dad had it) and they’re not doing them at the moment and I have no idea when or if they’re going to start again. I’m not hugely worried, but there are no symptoms before you get bad symptoms.

69607 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, #172 of 1806 🔗

It’s disgraceful that they are not doing glaucoma checks. If not now, then when?

69659 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, #173 of 1806 🔗

Do you mean the pressure test where they puff air into your eye? They still did that at my last test about 3 weeks ago now.

69704 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to A. Contrarian, #174 of 1806 🔗

Oh, did they? Very good news. I’d been looking for the guidance to change and hadn’t seen it. Great – thanks for the update. I’ll check the position of the various opticians round here and make an appointment.

69907 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to A. Contrarian, #175 of 1806 🔗

Where did you go, and what was the coronabollox like?

70854 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Farinances, #176 of 1806 🔗

Sorry, noticed this very late, guess you might not see my reply now. I went to a small independent optician, not a big chain. They recommended that I wear a mask (and in fact were giving out free goodie bags containing mask and gloves…) but I refused on the basis of lack of efficacy and feeling panicky if I wear one for more than a couple of minutes. There was a reasonable amount of bollox. Locked door policy like GPs and dentists, all staff dressed for an Ebola ward, hand sanitiser at every turn, etc etc. But they acted relatively normally apart from that. In fact the optician doing the test confided that it was much easier when people didn’t wear masks, because guess what, it’s quite hard to test people’s eyes when their glasses are all steamed up…

69865 ▶▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to matt, 3, #177 of 1806 🔗

Hi Matt

I try to avoid commenting on this site because it raises my stress, but your difficulty is specific and I may be able to help. I was in exactly the same situation: an overdue glaucoma test at my local NHS hospital, due in June. I have only recently started drops for glaucoma so it is vital to stop any further deterioration in my sight (I already have some loss in my field of vision, not serious) and to see if the drops are working. My optician was able to do most of the checks the NHS would have done: they did the blast-of-air pressure test, and followed it up with what I think is called a Goldman test which is more accurate but many opticians don’t do. It requires local anaesthetic drops in your eyes and they put the sensor directly on your eye. And they took computerised scans of my retinas. The only thing they couldn’t do was the head-in-the-box visual field test. Interestingly, my optician said he prefers his patients not to wear masks because it affects the examination of the eyes. Here’s the bad news: the above tests had to be paid for privately. I won’t say how much because I think the nice optician fiddled the paperwork to bring it down as a favour, but the original amount quoted on booking was not too bad.

The above is specific to Matt’s problem, but for everyone else, here’s a related shocking story, not for the squeamish. The brother of a friend of mine has macular degeneration. Last December (note: December), he had to attend the same hospital I go to (should go to) daily to have injections into his eyes. The eye clinic is the busiest clinic in the hospital and is always packed with elderly people. Last December, this chap remembers many waiting patients had severe coughs. Three or four weeks ago, the poor chap also had cataract surgery. He went for a follow-up and was told he had scar tissue on his cornea, which the doctor said was caused by coronavirus from all the coughing patients getting into his eyes during the injections. Remember: this was last December. I am in the south west.

69618 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Moomin, 2, #178 of 1806 🔗

This is unbelievable, I’ve just found this when doing my research about wearing a mask at the opticians:

https://www.aop.org.uk/ot/professional-support/aop/2020/07/24/face-masks-not-mandatory-for-patients-in-optical-practices-according-to-new-government-regulations

They’re basically going against the draconian government guidance and making it even more strict. What is wrong with these people?

69632 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Moomin, 1, #180 of 1806 🔗

Thanks Kevin

69906 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Moomin, #181 of 1806 🔗

Kevin: see my comment above: my optician told me he prefers patients not to wear masks. By the way, I sensed from his facial expressions and what he didn’t quite say that he thinks this “crisis” is a load of nonsense.

70133 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Moomin, #182 of 1806 🔗

optician must wear one under their “riles”, you don’t have to.

69528 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 11, #183 of 1806 🔗

“Leftie” bashing? What’s all this about in Toby’s round up?
Our government is a Conservative one and are responsible for this fiasco.
Likewise I believe Australia has a right wing government.
So where does the “leftie” aspect come from?

69531 ▶▶ Catherine123, replying to hotrod, 9, #184 of 1806 🔗

Agreed, there is no need for it. We’re all in this together.

69544 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Catherine123, 19, #185 of 1806 🔗

Seconded. It isn’t left and right now, it’s right and wrong.

69565 ▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to annie, 2, #186 of 1806 🔗

BJ, like Cameron (heir to Blair) is a Blairite.

69570 ▶▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Nigel Sherratt, #187 of 1806 🔗

Wow! Really. So this is what this has come to? The forum will lose a lot of contributions if you really think this is the case!

69606 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to hotrod, 18, #188 of 1806 🔗

I’m not a leftie, and I think the PM is not too different to Blair, and the government is not small-c conservative in any meaningful way. But I don’t agree with everything Toby Young posts or says, ditto for those who contribute here. I think it’s interesting to have different points of view. I hope that all sceptics, and non-sceptics, who have something interesting or constructive to say, continue to come here and argue their case, or ignore the stuff they don’t like. It would be a shame if people drifted away because of left-right arguments. I think there is a political aspect to this, but the priority is to restore respect for the truth and for true science.

69626 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 6, #189 of 1806 🔗

I agree but I think it would be sad if Toby were to moderate his well known and long standing political positions in order to placate and pander to lefties who are unable to tolerate them

That way lies short term success in terms of numbers, perhaps, but in the long run it results in standing for nothing. It’s basically why over the past century we in this country had numerous “Conservative” victories at elections, but almost never a genuinely conservative government.

Imo it’s up to the lefties to tolerate Toby’s views if they want to continue using his blog. He of course doesn’t have to agree with me on that, he’s free to choose to pander to them in pursuit of increased numbers if he wishes, but that’s my own hope.

69652 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mark, 15, #190 of 1806 🔗

I’m a (moderate) lefty, or at least used to consider myself so, and I tolerate his views fairly well. In fact I welcome a different viewpoint, and would respect him a lot less if he changed his position to appeal to lefties, much as Boris currently appears to be doing. I don’t understand why people can’t listen to and debate alternative opinions any more without having to stamp off and slam the door. It’s part of what has got us into this covid/lockdown mess. I always like to hear and consider other points of view, then make my own mind up. And in my experience, people on the right tend to be better at tolerating different views than people on the left!

69730 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #191 of 1806 🔗

I can absolutely respect your position, just not that of those who want to silence and exclude people who disagree.

That’s the difference between open debate and cancel culture.

69743 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to Mark, 3, #192 of 1806 🔗

I don’t think Toby should moderate any of his views, ever – just feels slightly irrelevant to be banging the left-right drum at the moment and not particularly helpful to the LS cause. But then again TY did write (and I wholeheartedly recommend it btw, a great, funny read) “How to lose friends and alienate people”.

69755 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Catherine123, 2, #193 of 1806 🔗

But clearly he doesn’t feel it is irrelevant (and nor do I). I’ve given my reasons in detail in comments here. Imo part of the solution is setting up some genuinely conservative opposition to the political consensus in this country. It wouldn’t do any harm to have some genuinely liberal (in the old fashioned sense) opposition to the Labour/left collectivist position, as well.

We (you and I) disagree on this, and that’s fine.

69773 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to Mark, 1, #194 of 1806 🔗

You’ve made me think Mark.

69788 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Catherine123, #195 of 1806 🔗

I take that as a compliment of the best kind, Catherine123 🙂

69576 ▶▶▶▶▶ Emma, replying to Nigel Sherratt, 4, #196 of 1806 🔗

Blair was no leftie

69646 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Emma, 4, #197 of 1806 🔗

So let’s see, Blair (an utter scumbag and lying war criminal who will rot in hell if here is any higher justice of any kind) believed in and actively promoted when he was in government):

Collective state healthcare
Collective state education
Collective state welfare
Anti-patriotic internationalism
Mass immigration to “rub the right’s noses in diversity” (and also to benefit his corporate backers and cronies by undercutting indigenous wages and bargaining power)
Viciously hostile pc policies directed against traditional families, sexual morality, and religion

But he’s not a “lefty” of course because lefties are embarrassed by his warmongering lies. Of course, there were always areas where he was not lefty enough for his more lefty supporters. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t literally stupid to claim he was not a lefty, backed and mostly voted for by the lefties in the main lefty political party and in all the lefty media and trade union bodies.

69647 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mark, 3, #198 of 1806 🔗

You’ve listed a bunch of things of which there is nothing wrong if done correctly – state healthcare, education, welfare, internationalism, equality (what you call hostile ‘pc policies’) are all worthwhile causes that should be part of any good governments manifesto, whether left or right. As with anything there is a balance to going too far in one direction or the other. That anyone could be anti healthcare, anti education, anti welfare is quite frankly bizarre.

69737 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark II, 3, #199 of 1806 🔗

You’ve listed a bunch of things of which there is nothing wrong if done correctly – state healthcare, education, welfare, internationalism, equality (what you call hostile ‘pc policies’) are all worthwhile causes that should be part of any good governments manifesto, whether left or right .”

Are you not aware that the question of whether these things should be provided or enforced by the state was precisely a key point of debate between radical left and the centre and right a century and more ago and through most of the C20th, and that the reason you regard them as self evidently good is precisely and only because the left won those arguments politically (not necessarily in any other sense) over the course of the C20th?

That anyone could be anti healthcare, anti education, anti welfare is quite frankly bizarre .”

Did you even notice that you left out the “state” in all those clauses, thereby rendering your assertion a blatant piece of straw man nonsense?

69745 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mark, #200 of 1806 🔗

I honestly couldn’t care less that they were discussed in some ancient political debate in a bygone time that means nothing in the current world.

As for ‘did I notice that I left out’, actually I included it on the first item in my list, I mistakenly thought you’d be intelligent enough to infer I was referring to state provision of all those things thereafter, my bad – I’ll be sure to list things out as if talking to a toddler in future.

69772 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark II, 1, #201 of 1806 🔗

I honestly couldn’t care less that they were discussed in some ancient political debate in a bygone time that means nothing in the current world.

OK I think we are getting to the heart of the problem here – you evidently lack any real sense of political perspective and think the issues of the moment are all that matter. Your “ancient political debate in a bygone time” is actually (for much of its more recent manifestation) lived memory for some of us, who actually experienced how the current consensus, that you are unable to imagine not being all there is, came to be.

As for ‘did I notice that I left out’, actually I included it on the first item in my list, I mistakenly thought you’d be intelligent enough to infer I was referring to state provision of all those things thereafter, my bad – I’ll be sure to list things out as if talking to a toddler in future .”

You seem to be failing to resist your inclination to descend to personal abuse again.

In fact, you did not “include it on the first item in your list” at all. You made no mention of it at all in the sentence to which I was responding and gave no indication that the list you gave should refer back to your previous words. So you misrepresented my position, in a manner that makes it seem absurd, but this was mere oversight on your part, supposedly. That you choose to resort to personal insults rather than apologising for the (supposedly inadvertently) misleading nature of your writing, if indeed that is what it was, is rather telling.

69686 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Mark, 4, #202 of 1806 🔗

But his biggest success was (and continues to be) enriching Anthony Charles Lynton Blair.

69738 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Alec in France, 3, #203 of 1806 🔗

Not going to argue with that. Personal corruption is a feature of politicians of both left and right, and of the centre, whatever that might mean.

69898 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, #204 of 1806 🔗

Aaah, but he was the one who started privatising all these ‘collective’ institutions in earnest- or at least involving the private sector heavily in them. PFI system brought in under Major was considerably expanded under him (1997 I think). So basically he took what had been created by previous Tory gvts. before him and ran with it.

He was actually Thatcher’s bastard son. People laugh when I say this, but honestly. Think about his policies. Bar immigration, it’s pretty spot on. This is why the genuine left despise him. Same with Obama in America – he was kinda their BLiar. Talked pretty- fucked a lot of people over.

69994 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, #205 of 1806 🔗

I recognise that Blair basically accepted the tactical defeat of the left over the 1970s/1980s issue of open state control of the “commanding heights of the economy”, and changed the language used somewhat. I also recognise that he introduced some crony capitalism in place of formal state control, though frankly I can’t say I’ve noticed much real difference between bureaucracy run by stupid state dictats and targets, and bureaucracy run by self-interested business dictats and targets.

But considering we had Blair and a subsequent ten years (including three supposedly “Conservative” Prime Ministers) of rule by people supposedly to his right, it’s notable that the state still administers the NHS and directly employs over 5 million people representing 16.5% of all employed people in the UK. And the UK state still spends nearly 40% of gdp. And we still have the mass immigration that Blair initiated. And we have even more political correctness bullshit than he brought in.

So we can agree that Blair was and is an utter scumbag, and yes he changed the tone of some aspects of the left, but that was as much to do with the general shift of leftist politics from real backing of actual British workers to dogmatic identity politics, internationalism and political correctness issues generally. The problem is that Thatcher is also mis-identified as a conservative when in reality, although personally socially conservative in some areas, she was in government more of a liberal, bringing in radical changes in many areas, beyond rolling back state control of industry and a few other monopolies.

69655 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to annie, #206 of 1806 🔗

People too far to one side or the other will never see it like this. You’ve got idiots on here spitefully referring to ‘lefties’ and ‘leftist policies’ whilst burying their heads in the sand at the fact we’ve had more Conservative governments than Labour by a long long way over the last 50 years. They can’t accept that what they think of as Conservatives is not really what a majority of conservative voters expect or what convervative governments will deliver, they just don’t want to accept they are more right-wing that your average conservative. You similarly have the Corbyn mob trying to disown anything the left-of-centre Blair government did as ‘right wing’ when it was clearly not right wing.

69708 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark II, 2, #207 of 1806 🔗

“idiots”….”spitefully”

I think you need to address your own issues here, based on that piece of passive aggressive, petty abuse.

They can’t accept that what they think of as Conservatives is not really what a majority of conservative voters expect or what convervative governments will deliver, they just don’t want to accept they are more right-wing that your average conservative .

On the contrary, it’s completely obvious that we (clearly I’m among your targets here) are in the minority – that’s the whole problem. The problem is that you can’t see how far the nation has moved to the left over the past century, or the problems that has created. You just accept the move and regard the left as the new centre – a recipe for endless left-wing drift, until there is a disaster (like the current one) and a hard correction.

It’s facile to claim some sort of mystical parity as you do here, as though magically the nation always stays in one place (the “centre”) and then there are far left and far right who are (of course) equally wrong. That’s only true in the inherent, relative sense. Objectively the nation clearly shifts to one side or the other over time, and old extremes become the relative centre, but still objectively more left or right than before.

The centre ground now would be recognised as radical left in almost every regard by anyone viewing it objectively from the turn of the C19th/C20th (just one long lifetime ago).

69750 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mark, #208 of 1806 🔗

OR you can’t see how far to the ‘right’ your view of the ideal world is?

69776 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark II, #209 of 1806 🔗

My views were broadly moderate conservative/liberal when I was young. They have not changed dramatically, in philosophical terms (obviously the context is different, so details change), but society has shifted dramatically to the left, so that I am absolutely out on a limb on the conservative side now, relative to the new orthodoxy. That is the whole problem, for me and imo for the society that has become in large part dysfunctional, as illustrated by the coronapanic.

69566 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Catherine123, -3, #210 of 1806 🔗

say’s the lefty

69746 ▶▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to Biker, #211 of 1806 🔗

Er, what makes you say that?

69556 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to hotrod, 4, #212 of 1806 🔗

Australia’s Liberals are a touch right of centre at federal level (and are typically viewed as a right wing party), though in some states (Victoria for instance), the same party is a touch left of centre. Victoria in any case is governed (if such gross incompetence and corruption can indeed be called such) by the Labour lot. Literally the only decisions the Australian government have made were to ban travel in or out, and to not interfere with whatever ridiculous measures the state governments want to implement, so each state is a law unto itself at present.

75313 ▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #213 of 1806 🔗

Both sides are rubbish. I loathe all of the Aus pollies now.

69617 ▶▶ Mark, replying to hotrod, 17, #214 of 1806 🔗

We do have a “Conservative” government, but it’s not remotely conservative. In almost every objective sense it’s a lefty government, that has fully bought into all the lefty transformations of our elite’s dogmas over the past few decades, and supports collective healthcare (to the ridiculous extent of trashing the entire nation out of fear for the sainted NHS), spends fortunes implementing political correctness in all its noxious forms, clearly believes in all that pc nonsense from “antiracism” to promoting homosexual behaviour, hasn’t meaningfully addressed mass immigration, hasn’t even questioned state welfarism, and has demonstrated an extreme collectivism in the response to the coronapanic, to an extent not witnessed before in this country outside of wartime.

And the coronapanic is very much a lefty-driven agenda, pushed by aggressively fear-mongering propaganda from the notoriously lefty dominated BBC and all the broadcast media organisations, and most of the newspapers, where even when the ownership and nominal editorial line is supposedly not lefty, the journalistic and editorial staff mostly are (with a few notable exceptions).

So both are true – that this coronapanic nonsense was implemented by a “Conservative” government, and that it is pushed and implemented by a lefty government aligned (for this purpose) with lefties in the media and in all the institutions that the left has come to dominate, from the Lancet, through the teaching unions and CoE, to the National Trust (see other comments here today).Indeed, I would say that it is the long cultural triumph of the left that made us vulnerable to this panic in the first place. With its inherently collectivist spirit and its silly sentimentalism about “if it saves one life”, it relies on the leftist destruction of elite education in this country together with leftist sentimentalism coming to dominate all the institutions run by our elites, which are now mostly fanatically “woke” compared to what they were a few decades ago.

Toby has in the past linked to studies discussing the clear political bias in support for versus resistance to the coronapanic, whereby broadly support for it is stronger on the left and resistance stronger on the right. This is more obvious in the US where the federal system has made the difference between Democrat and Republican attitudes clearer.

This does not mean that there are not plenty of supposed rightwingers pushing the panic, nor that there are not many very sharp left-wingers strongly resisting it, as is regularly demonstrated on this site. But it is nevertheless the general situation.

Turning to Toby’s position on this, well it’s his blog and he is entitled to decide for himself whether he wants to suppress his well known right of centre political sympathies in order to placate people like you who (evidently) are of the left and find criticism of the left uncomfortable. He has not done so consistently, at least so far, and I hope he does not. Imo that kind of dishonest pandering always ends in failure anyway. But unless he chooses to so, you will need to recognise that Toby is of the right and is a habitual “lefty-basher” and decide whether you are willing to tolerate that to continue to come here.

69642 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Mark, 8, #215 of 1806 🔗

LEFT and RIGHT in politics are synthetic constructs. The left is state sponsored and FAKE, so is the RIGHT. The same tiny group of people manage both sides. It’s doesn’t matter WHO you vote for, government always wins.
Two cheeks of the same backside.

69664 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Two-Six, 5, #216 of 1806 🔗

Left and right in politics dates back to the French Revolution (18th century one) and was based on which side of the assembly people sat.

Politics is too complicated to be divided into two halves and the only real benefit of that is for those wishing to polarise society.

I’d argue that the governments of the past 25 years have roughly followed the Clinton/Blair third way model: neoliberal globalists on economics with a fat welfare system to plug the gap left by corporate offshoring and deindustrialisation. This is a married to a left (conservatives) or very left wing (labour/lib dems) social policy.

69682 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cicatriz, 6, #217 of 1806 🔗

Just as an addendum. Up until considering that the left/right dichotomoy was stupid, I thought of myself as a lefty. However, left wing politics has completely abondoned particular principles I hold very high, such as free speech, free assembly and the principles (if not always their implementation) of a judicial system based upon innocent until proved guilty and the right to confront one’s accuser.

These are things that both the left and right, excluding perhaps only the extremes of each, generally agreed upon.

On economics, I’d probably be a social democrat, agreeing that markets are good but not good everywhere and not without limitations (e.g. the neoliberal view) but labour now has two wings, the Blairite faction who are neoliberals (or trending that way) and the Corbyn types who are socialists.

69691 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #218 of 1806 🔗

I did a quiz on one of the seat calculator sites last year, and not particularly to my surprise I’m completely centrist both socially and economically speaking, but tend noticeably to nationalist (i.e. ‘right’) on the spectrum generally used to determine left or right. By the same token I have definite anarchist sympathies – which is a centrist left philosophy favouring small (or even better no) government.
A lot of ‘righties’ (if you like) have a bizarre idea that big government is left and small government is right, but in fact it’s the part of the spectrum either side of centrism that favours small government, and the further you go from there either right or left gets progressively in favour of bigger government until you hit either right or left wing totalitarianism.

69728 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 2, #219 of 1806 🔗

I agree, I think big/bigger government is a function of extremism and authoritarianism more than a function of being left or right. I think that’s why the extremist centrist accusation is gaining traction.

Nationalism and patriotism is another one of those issues that the vocal left/progressives have alienated me on. I’m not particularly patriotic or nationalist, but I’ve never once considered those views to be verbotim (not unless you become an actual fascist, and I mean really a fascist in the 1930s sense and not Rick Mayall in The Young Ones sense).

69904 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cicatriz, #220 of 1806 🔗

And what we NEED is something somewhere in between Neo-Liberal (which to me is basically Bush-Thatcher hangover) and socialist. I. E. PROPER MODERATE *GENUINE* LEFT-WING

69921 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Farinances, 1, #221 of 1806 🔗

Yep. Some choice that actually represents people on both the left and right. I’m not holding my breath (although current policies will gag me instead).

69931 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #222 of 1806 🔗

We need a ‘Social Democrat’ party or something (all the terminology is confusing these days because none of it means anything any more) that is socially conservative/traditional and economically mildly left-wing (i.e. regulated capitalism rather than the rampant corporatism we have now- corporatism brought on by Neo-Liberal NOT ‘right-wing’ politicians).

69785 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Two-Six, #223 of 1806 🔗

All these terms are simplifications, and necessarily broad generalisations, but that doesn’t mean they don’t reflect important underlying truths.

These days it’s fashionable to insist that (true) generalisations by definition are not always correct about individual cases. People tend to forget the flipside, which is that by definition, (true) generalisations are correct about most cases.

69903 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Two-Six, #224 of 1806 🔗

This is the only post I agree with in this thread lol

69688 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, #225 of 1806 🔗

Indeed. If I am honest, though I do read what Mr Young writes most of the time, and find it interesting, I really come here for the comments. Sorry Toby….

69529 Albie, 22, #226 of 1806 🔗

After all the nonsense and ridiculous measures implemented over the past few months, all future April Fools are redundant. If Saturday was August Fools Day and there was a story about Pringles being individually wrapped to prevent germs spreading by people putting their hands into this much shared product then I’d believe it. That would be mild compared to much of the safety measures now in place.

69530 Catherine123, replying to Catherine123, 15, #227 of 1806 🔗

The deaths caused by lockdown in this article almost certainly won’t include those deaths caused by moving elderly people out of hospitals into nursing homes – surely a major cause of deaths caused directly by lockdown.

69533 ▶▶ matt, replying to Catherine123, 1, #228 of 1806 🔗

I think it would be next to impossible to put a number on that with any confidence. Necessarily, the policy will have contributed to a large number of deaths, but it would be very hard to conclusively demonstrate that x person being discharged into a care home led to y infection and death, as opposed to them having caught it elsewhere.

A large proportion of the deaths in care homes, or deaths in hospital of care home residents will have been caused by this policy, but I doubt you could go further than that statement.

69752 ▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to matt, #229 of 1806 🔗

Agreed Matt.

69537 Cecil B, 2, #230 of 1806 🔗

I am in the early stages of writing/production of a new film

Set many years in the future, the title will be “Covidburg: The War Crimes Tribunal”

Negotiations are still at an early stage, so I can only use the first names of some of the stars I hope to sign up (contracts have not been signed yet)

The plot revolves around a group of former leaders charged with waging an unjust war against their citizens; and with responsibility for tens of thousands of deaths in the Care Camps

A slimmed down Hermann G will play the Dictator (no the irony is not lost on me). He spends his time during the trial laughing and joking as he rambles on about his great achievements

Spoiler Alert. In the end a sympathetic guard slips him a mickey to put him out of his misery

Head of the Health Ministry will be played by Rudoph H. At the trial he plays the mad card. In an attempt to to convince the judges his defence team play endless tapes of his press conferences.

This tactic wins the judges over, and he is sentenced to wear spandex for the rest of his days

Head of Internal Security will be played by Heinrich H. The creator of the ‘shame them’ policy. In the final days of the regime she threw off her uniform and was found posing as a displaced traffic warden in a column of #Metwo refugees

Just a few thoughts, early days yet

If you’re going to San Francisco be sure to wear some flowers in your hair

69546 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 6, #231 of 1806 🔗

So, I went into my local (Keighley) Sainsbury’s again last night. I walked in with another non-mask wearer and there were a few others in there too but most (95%) were wearing masks and all the staff were too. Does anyone know if they’ve got a policy for all staff to wear masks?

69549 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Moomin, 27, #232 of 1806 🔗

I work for Sainsbury’s. Yes, Head Office wants us all to wear masks. However, I have never worn one and I haven’t been given any trouble for it. I’ve also been telling many of my colleagues, who had expressed displeasure at wearing masks, to just take theirs off, and I would credit myself with having some moderate success.

69555 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Ben Shirley, 6, #233 of 1806 🔗

Hi Ben, thanks for replying. In Keighley, they have a barrier up to get in and out, like you’d get at the side of the road for a bike race or the like. There are also big screens that you’re funnelled through for the self-checkout. Anyway, I didn’t hear it correctly, but a young lad who worked there must have seen me maskless and said something to a colleague about having to wear a mask and the colleague said something like you don’t have to wear one if you have a doctor’s note. It was something like that but I couldn’t really challenge it as I don’t think I heard correctly. Having said that, I got the distinct impression that this young lad wasn’t happy. I might go back in and have a word with the manager or write a letter. And good for you for standing on your principles.

69572 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ben Shirley, 8, #234 of 1806 🔗

Your firm is your firm, but worth a reminder that the law does not require shop workers to be muzzled.

69548 Ben Shirley, 3, #235 of 1806 🔗

Don’t forget: https://www.standupx.info/

Saturday 1st August, 1:00pm, Speakers’ Corner

69552 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 15, #236 of 1806 🔗

Saw that Prof Susan Michie on GMB. What a silly cow. Spouting all the usual garbage about second wave, we’re all doomed, much more needs to be done by government etc etc (we can all write the script). BUT INTERESTINGLY, she poo-pooed the idea of another national lockdown EVEN IN THE FACE OF A SECOND WAVE. Is this the new orthodoxy among the experts on the other side? It’s all going to be about “local restrictions” (note, the word “lockdown” is now verboten among these idiots).They know that the politicians won’t countenance another national lockdown on economic grounds but they can just as easily keep the populace under fear and control with the threat of local “restrictions”,

69564 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Gillian, 7, #237 of 1806 🔗

A relatively small scattering of local ‘restrictions’ will do it. Either it’s where you’re starting from, or where you are heading to, but you can’t travel. Lockdown without ‘Lockdown’. And, Borisy Bonus – central Gov can’t be blamed.

69644 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sam Vimes, #238 of 1806 🔗

I think they’ll just rotate around the country, so we’ll probably all get locally locked down again at some point over the autumn and winter.

69601 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Gillian, 40, #239 of 1806 🔗

As far as I am concerned the lockdown never stopped, and cannot be considered over until the Coronavirus Act and all the Statutory Instruments are repealed and rescinded, and all businesses and premises and schools are open as they were before this shit started, and it has been recognised that it was a mistake. Until that time, we are locked down, by evil lies.

69649 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Julian, 12, #240 of 1806 🔗

Yes, we are still in lockdown. Its worse than peak lockdown with the bastard masks and the idiotic covid safe measures.

69674 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Julian, 8, #241 of 1806 🔗

Completely right, they’ve done a lot of psychological gamesmanship over the last few months, including that they’ve tricked a lot of people into thinking we’re out of lockdown. If they stop to think that we still can’t have crowds bigger than 30, they’re realise we’re in fact having severe restrictions imposed on us stil..

I think if you look at that Lockdown stringency chart, we’re still under very strict controls vs most of Europe (it was vs _all_ of Europe when I last looked a week or so ago)

69643 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Gillian, 2, #242 of 1806 🔗

She’s almost as loathsome as Hancock. I know several countries have said that they won’t lockdown again (e.g. France, Norway, possibly Netherlands) and Boris has mumbled something about not needing a second lockdown, but of course you can’t trust a word he says. But we’re stil essentially in a semi-lockdown state anyway, and I think they will keep us like this all winter. Not sure how the local lockdowns will necessarily work though, if they’ve committed to locking an area down when cases are rising, what will they do if they’re rising everywhere? They’ll have to lock everywhere down again anyway or it will seem “unfair”.

69676 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #243 of 1806 🔗

We may not be locked down (or as I prefer ‘banged up’) again here but we’re stuck with the [multiple expletives deleted] muzzles, apparently forever.

38° here today – soggy, malodorous face-nappies will really be a joy.

70131 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Gillian, 1, #244 of 1806 🔗

She’s also part of alternative SAGE as well as SAGE and a fully paid up member of the Communist Party of Great Britain.

Why bother with parliamentary inquiry into Russian meddling in elections when Communists are already in the upper echelons of power?

69554 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 3, #245 of 1806 🔗

Have a listen to the two news ‘anchors’ after the American woman’s live feed is (deliberately?) broken. They should have been marched out of the studio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnTA4t5eRqs

69563 ▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 2, #246 of 1806 🔗

That’s extraordinary

69717 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #247 of 1806 🔗

Only extraordinary I think because it’s openly broadcast.

69695 ▶▶ Girl down Under, replying to T. Prince, 1, #248 of 1806 🔗

Yes folks this is the general calibre of the Today show, a programme I refuse to watch. Not exactly inspiring journalism is it. Ratings are down the gurgler apparently, no surprise there then! Thank goodness for Sky.

69721 ▶▶ Mark, replying to T. Prince, #249 of 1806 🔗

Sky News Australia has been quite notably out of step with the general global media and big tech consensus lately, it seems to me (though there might be a selection bias for me because I only see the clips that go online).

69766 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Mark, 1, #250 of 1806 🔗

And unfortunately Sky News Australia is out of step with Sky News UK which is following the general UK MSM narrative. But then Sky sports is also still promoting the BLM issue as well so it is well embedded in the woke culture

69561 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 23, #251 of 1806 🔗

The stupidity of the National Trust as demonstrated above does not surprise me. The museums and heritage sector has demonstrated a collective lack of courage in the slavish way they implement the government guidelines as well as some going one step further and “recommending” muzzling which I suspect is their way of cashing in on this crisis such as this:

https://www.nationalgallery.co.uk/products/sunflowers-face-mask/p_1050631

https://www.nationalgallery.co.uk/products/a-still-life-of-flowers-in-a-wan-li-vase-face-mask/p_1050632

There is also their lack of long term thinking that such measures and the mandatory muzzling in their gift shops would drive people away. Once the initial novelty of visiting wears off, people start to think that they can’t be bothered going through that purgatory again.

I work in the museums and heritage sector and even I’m boycotting the likes of the National Gallery and V&A over their cowardice and disregard for the long term future of our sectors. Others might accuse me of cutting my own nose to spite my own face but like with the shops, we have got to vote with our feet and wallets to make the likes of Tristam Hunt and Gabriele Firnaldi sit up and take notice.

69578 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #252 of 1806 🔗

The National Trust has been at it for some time. It wasn’t that long ago it was trying to get all its volunteers to promote some gay pride nonsense. Then there was its abysmal scheme to ‘reimagine’ Clandon Park following the fire there. It’s less about preservation and conservation now and more about being just another establishment mouthpiece.

69584 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ben Shirley, 13, #253 of 1806 🔗

Hence why Mr Bart and I will never consider becoming National Trust members, it’s not only for financial reasons but we don’t like the direction they’re heading. As a historian myself I am appalled at the ahistorical way their properties and collections have been presented to the public.

69588 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #254 of 1806 🔗

Look at the Historic Houses Association as an alternative – an organisation of owners of (mostly) ancient properties that have not been sanitised and tweaked and promoted at the educational level of an 8 year old.

69589 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluemoon, #255 of 1806 🔗

Will check it out. Thanks.

69580 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Bart Simpson, 18, #256 of 1806 🔗

Quite a few years ago our family took out life memberships of NT, which was great (at the time) because we did visit a lot of sites. However if I could get my money back now, I would…they’ve been infiltrated by utter morons. The lgbt stuff, the women’s rights stuff, etc etc…I have sent several letters of fury on these issues and never once received a reply. Their mission is supposed to be the safeguarding and upkeep of our heritage buildings and landscape…and we do have many wonderful places. I recently learned that in order to get into a car-park at a NT site, I now have to book, ffs….not much point being a life member.
I used to volunteer in the museums sector, I’m glad I don’t now. It’s all so painfully sad.

69586 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to thedarkhorse, 8, #257 of 1806 🔗

The pre-booking is one thing that turns me off as well. I had a fairly long running battle with the National Gallery over membership when I asked if I could be refunded for the unused part of the membership during the closure. They refused and while I have written off this year as a lost cause, I have cancelled my membership from 2021 onwards. I will return once this insanity is over but I will spend as little money as possible – no cafe and shop for me.

69615 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to thedarkhorse, 13, #258 of 1806 🔗

I honestly think the National Trust, Heritage England and even Girlguiding actually intend to destroy the institutions they work for. It is too much of a coincidence that they all push the same woke ist agenda. Not sure what they think they will do for a job when they’ve destroyed said organisations – they won’t all be able to work for the BBC surely?

69634 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to KBuchanan, 5, #259 of 1806 🔗

I don’t think they care. Once they have destroyed the institutions they work for, there’s always somewhere that would take them in – its a very incestious world this lot go around. Never mind that the people that need them the most will suffer because they will carry on destroying whatever they touch regardless.

69665 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #260 of 1806 🔗

We stopped being members decades ago – they were almost always toffee-nosed back then. Similar attitude to the NHS – without all the hoi-polloi visitors (read patients) this would be a great place to work…

Now they’re ‘woke’ as well, the mind boggles!

69666 ▶▶▶ Emma, replying to thedarkhorse, #261 of 1806 🔗

I see membership of the NT not so much about what it entitles me to but more in terms of supporting their work, which whatever you think of their interpretation of the history of the properties, is still worthwhile.Maybe letters of constructive criticism rather than letters of fury would elicit a response?

69590 ▶▶ Emma, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #262 of 1806 🔗

Poor old National Trust. I work in the heritage sector too, but self-employed. I’ve had a lot of work from the NT over the years and have many friends and colleagues who still work there (for now). They were stuck between a rock and a hard place. They rely on (mostly) elderly volunteers to be able to open the properties, and if this is the demographic that you scare shitless, they’re not going to come and you can’t open the house. You cannot overnight introduce a new system of opening. Interestingly, I learn from an insider that the announcement yesterday about redundancies is part of a huge restructuring they are calling ‘the Reset’.

69602 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Emma, 7, #263 of 1806 🔗

I learn from an insider that the announcement yesterday about redundancies is part of a huge restructuring they are calling ‘the Reset’.

That sounds rather ominous.

69609 ▶▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #264 of 1806 🔗

God it does doesn’t it..

69671 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #265 of 1806 🔗

I hate the national trust. Closing down all the footpaths in Wales and locking down remote beauty spots and huge chunks of wild open spaces.

Before the Corona Project they also banned all “drone” flying on all of their land in the UK.

That’s another thing, DRONE laws. A raft of totally insane rules brought in via “Europe” that has totally destroyed the hobby of Model aircraft flying with some really crazy rules.

You need a licence fly anything over 250 grams in weight now. So that’s almost my entire fleet of model aircraft that I can’t fly any more. Again, I had hoped for resistance and solidarity amongst the model flying community but everybody just went along with the new rules.
Now EASA are going to put out a raft of even more insane rules. Which will really finish off the sport.

I said at the time it was tyranny but I was labelled as a conspiracy theorist.

Absolute F*(&^rs.

69687 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, #266 of 1806 🔗

Not aware of anything regarding the model planes regulations. Can’t something be ammended about verticle take off/firward motiin take off? Has there been any enforcement of the 250g ruling against a model plane – are gliders included.
Yes —–ers.

69710 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Basics, 1, #267 of 1806 🔗

Yes, its a blanket rule, anything heavier than 250grams and up apart from control line aircraft require the owner registers with the CAA, gets a number, displays it on the aircraft and takes a really stupid test, soon all kinds of flight limiting “controllers” must be fitted along with some sever power to weight restrictions. There are also height restrictions, not about 400 feet, and restrictions on where you can fly, specially designated areas only and yes gliders are banned too.

To be fair it is easy to get the test and licence but this is just the thin end of the wedge.

69740 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Two-Six, #268 of 1806 🔗

All the rules are about MONETISING the lower air space below 400 feet for commercial drone operators. They want an app to control it all. You need to submit your plight plan before take off and wait for it to be authorised.

69770 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Two-Six, #269 of 1806 🔗

Dumbfounding.

I believe the airport drone carry on was a crude mi5 carry on. No pap got the shot despite tge country being grounded. Reason – I believe drones worry them since we can surveil them. The airport nonsense was the catalyst for these regulations.

69787 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, #270 of 1806 🔗

Plight plan – a real Freudian thingy. 🙂

(Allow me to help you two with your spelling – Fuckers ! ).

69784 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Two-Six, 1, #271 of 1806 🔗

The UK shooting community behaved in exactly the same way as EASA, 2-6.

69567 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 12, #272 of 1806 🔗

Weather forecast is warming up. Will be a few sweaty mask wearers out and about

69571 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, 13, #273 of 1806 🔗

Not to mention increase in fainting and people experiencing hypoxic or hypercapnia attacks.

69696 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Bart Simpson, 9, #274 of 1806 🔗

I did not witness it myself but I am told an elderly lady fell and badly injured herself near here yesterday while returning from Tesco. I rather suspect mask wearing and fainting was involved. We will be seeing more such cases before people realise why.
Unfortunately when I went for the Tesco shop this morning the lady at the checkout who was interested in where I had got my exempt lanyard from started asking questions about why I was exempt. Refused to tell her of course but pointed out that everybody under 11 is exempt and the store should be enforcing that. 100% customers masked, most staff also, so no trend to ignoring the rule here I am afraid.

70083 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to davews, #275 of 1806 🔗

Tomorrow will be especially hot so we’ll probably hear of more incidents. Not to mention people avoiding going out.

69569 Sam Vimes, 18, #276 of 1806 🔗

This just in. As all indicators continue to fall, the self-isolation period for those with symptoms will be increased from7 to 10 days. this is because [insert fear monster of choice].

69604 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #277 of 1806 🔗

WHO official warns that COVID-19 is ‘one big wave’

Dr Margaret Harris, a spokesperson for the World Health Organization, said there is no evidence that COVID-19 will follow seasonal variations like other coronaviruses. This comes after countries around the world say they are experiencing second waves.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-who/who-says-covid-19-pandemic-is-one-big-wave-not-seasonal-idUKKCN24T176

69714 ▶▶ Julian, replying to JohnB, 1, #278 of 1806 🔗

Is there evidence that it won’t be seasonal? The WHO don’t seem to know much more than when this started, at least nothing useful that could inform sensible policy decisions.

69715 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, #279 of 1806 🔗

Let’s wait and see what happens in the Southern Hemisphere over the next two or three months. August there is the equivalent of our February.

69754 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, #280 of 1806 🔗

Gov and medical experts are all saying it’s seasonal aren’t they? Which is why infection doesn’t equal immunity.

70284 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Julian, 1, #281 of 1806 🔗

‘Normal’ coronaviruses seem to be later than other colds or flu typically (i.e. spring, not winter), but when humans are not behaving naturally, I can imagine that the seasonal nature would be affected somewhat. Also worth noting is tropical (i.e. not seasonal) climates don’t have seasons for such diseases either – they occur year-round.

69774 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to JohnB, #282 of 1806 🔗

The WHO are like the amateur day traders I described a while back. They have one objective and react to random fluctuations to “correct” their previous actions and end up with random results.

69830 ▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 1, #283 of 1806 🔗

Insufficient evidence for the moment, because we have less than a full year’s experience of it.

That said, Ivor Cummings and the immunologist whose interview was linked here yesterday ( Ep91 Emeritus Professor of Immunology…Reveals Crucial Viral Immunity Reality ) suggest that the numbers so far are consistent with it settling into a pretty standard seasonal pattern, and since it’s another coronavirus cold much like the ones we’ve seen previously, it seems reasonable to assume that it will also be seasonal now that it has settled in as endemic in most places.
If that’s correct, though, its impact will become progressively less as the most most vulnerable have already been hit and there will be widespread cross-immunities, and in the long run it will just be another one of all the viruses and bugs that give us the usual winter death peaks.

69612 Ewan Duffy, 16, #284 of 1806 🔗

Your correspondent from Derry is incorrect – masks in the Republic of Ireland are guidance masquerading as law. The government have threatened to make them law if people don’t follow the guidance but have not done so.

I have been in and out of retail outlets in Dublin maskless and have not been challenged by anyone (staff or other customer).

69623 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 33, #285 of 1806 🔗

Sad story of how all this had taken over our lives:

Was supposed to meet up with a work colleague over coffee a few days’ ago but she cancelled the night before citing that we were in different “bubbles” and would I mind if we rescheduled 3 months’ later?

I did mind but understand her fear so replied and said no problem, it would be best to reschedule in October if only to put her mind at ease.

She phoned me that evening to apologise and we got talking. She has brought into the whole thing lock, stock and barrel and when she got into the whole antisocial distancing malarkey, I asked her if she was willing to forego hugging her family especially her grandchildren (who she’s very close to) for all eternity. That shocked her and I added if she knew that the 2 metre rule had no basis in science and that antisocial distancing is a device used by prisons, concentration camps and gulags to break the spirit of their prisoners.

Hope I have given her some food for thought.

When I finished chatting with her, another thing dawned on me, the idea of “bubbles” is one that is well described in the novel One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich .

69645 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bart Simpson, 19, #286 of 1806 🔗

Similar here, a tentatively planned bike trip to the alps has fallen through as one of the group was concerned we couldn’t be distanced properly in the car and that his family would give him stick for breaking the guidelines. They’ve had a ‘covid related death’ so I didn’t push or pressure as I realise once emotions involved it’s difficult to be rational. I pointed out it’s not law, said he still wants to play it safe due to family pressure (says he wasnt worried about catching it or getting in trouble which at least was re-assuring).

My visiting mum and wife opted for masks on supermarket trip yesterday (I normally do the shopping, but am now refusing to go til masks nonsense over) because they dont want to risk a fine, neither of them believe they’re effective or necessary, but the threat of punishment, especially financial punishment, is all thats needed.

It shows the state of their diktat tho, you only get compliance through fear of punishment, not through agreement or consent – hence the tiny uptake of masks when optional, but now sudden widespread compliance. It is a tiny minority who _really want_ masks, and those people are idiots, quite frankly.

69660 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark II, 5, #287 of 1806 🔗

I thought bubbles were out of the window. I’ve been ignoring them, anyway, and so have most other people I know. I am pretty sure the only major restriction now is gatherings must not be more than 30 people (plus the masks and quarantine and all the health and safety nonsense)

69684 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Julian, 2, #288 of 1806 🔗

Yeah I pointed out none of it is law, but obviously the bubbles thing is still ‘guidance’ (at least I think it is – it’s been a long time since I bothered looking at what their guidance is and instead go straight for the actual SI to prove points) and as no one in the mainstream media is regularly publicising the fact that you can have people over (up to 30 people) and mingle with friends and family as you wish, people still largely think you’re expected to restrict gatherings to 2 households still.

69693 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark II, 11, #289 of 1806 🔗

I think deliberately (CF my comment on mask exemptions), the whole thing is so messy and has been changed so many times that it’s virtually impossible to remember what the guidelines are _now_ versus what they have been in the past.

Firstly – all this is guidelines not rules (how much of it was ever rules and how much of it was always guidelines is another question).

“Support bubbles” are still a thing. This basically means that a single adult household can behave as if they were part of another household.

The guidance says nothing about restricting the number of households you can interact with, indoors or out, but you are only supposed to interact with one other household at a time indoors. Gatherings of up to 6 (though the law specifically allows up to 30). However, you can have people from one household round to your house today, meet up with another in the pub tomorrow, go to a restaurant with a third on Friday and so on. That nice Mr Sunak would very much like you to do this.

You should maintain social distance throughout.

No limit to the number of households you can interact with outdoors, but gatherings are still supposed to be no more than 6 people.

Make sense?

Hint – the answer is no, which is why so many people haven’t the faintest idea what they’re actually “supposed” to be doing, as opposed to just remembering fragments of that they’ve been told is guidance or might become guidance over the last few months and jumbling it all up in their head as a kind of socio-psychological soup.

69711 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 3, #290 of 1806 🔗

I am pretty sure all the bubble stuff, which was law, has gone. There is just this now: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/684/regulation/5 which is gatherings of > 30. Distancing was never law.

69720 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #291 of 1806 🔗

Oh, it’s gone in law, but very much still there in guidelines, which are still on the gov.uk website and haven’t been changed since the end of June. Everything I’ve said above is guidelines, except that I thought the ban on gatherings over 30 was law. If as you say, it is not, then it goes to prove the point – I’ve been paying attention and I’m still getting it wrong. It’s a complete mess (on purpose)

69884 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Julian, 7, #292 of 1806 🔗

I don’t know anyone who really cares about this nonsense anymore.In their private lives I think most people are ignoring government guidelines.
The problem is the control in the public realm and Corporate sectors.

69716 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to matt, #293 of 1806 🔗

I think ambiguity is deliberate in order to make people think they’d better err on the safe side. Certainly the certificate you needed to go out of your house for an hour a day during the confinement in France was ambiguously worded. There was a programme on the radio about this aspect – not criticising it, but discussing how well confusion works to get across the message to stay at home.

69722 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jane in France, 1, #294 of 1806 🔗

No doubt that’s true. Keep people off balance and you keep them on edge.

69724 ▶▶▶▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Mark II, #295 of 1806 🔗

That is still the law in Wales though, 2 households!

69800 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Youth_Unheard, 1, #296 of 1806 🔗

If you hadn’t just mentioned it, I would not have noticed – in my area of Wales at least. I think everyone round here (including my formerly-masked-up-&-be-gloved-‘got-to-stay-2m-apart’ mother-in-law) have forgotten about it.

70088 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Julian, 4, #297 of 1806 🔗

Trouble is my workplace is implementing it and has split us into two “bubbles” (now I hate that word and would happily shoot anyone who uses it). There’s nothing about not being allowed to socialise outside work but many of my colleagues have been scared into thinking that socialising outside the “bubbles” is forbidden. One even told me that she would be happy to meet up only when there’s a vaccine.

To which I replied “you will be waiting for 10 million years to the point that we will all be dead anyway.”

70085 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark II, 1, #298 of 1806 🔗

Exactly. I know many of my colleagues have fallen for this malarkey but yeah they’re also scared as well. It just makes me sad to think that these people don’t bother doing their research and reading.

70296 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #299 of 1806 🔗

If they’re like my sister it’s probably they don’t have the time or inclination to sift through all the crap to find the facts. In fairness to my sister, she works a compressed full week for Nationwide, does (currently online) yoga teaching, and has my nephews (primarily the younger one now, but nonetheless) to look after, never mind a share of all the usual daily tasks required to live properly. It’s also not an unreasonable assumption that the media has morals and only reports facts (despite the clear evidence that neither is true).

70335 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #300 of 1806 🔗

That’s a good point. Especially with regards to the mentality of if it’s from the MSM, it must be true.

69709 ▶▶ kbeanie, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #301 of 1806 🔗

I’ve given no thought to bubbles for WEEKS. Don’t know anyone who has!

69719 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to kbeanie, 7, #302 of 1806 🔗

I don’t want to be in anybody’s social bubble. They are obviously muppets if they have a social bubble.

69763 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to kbeanie, 3, #303 of 1806 🔗

Have I got a bubble? Do I need one? Where do I get one?

70090 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kbeanie, 1, #304 of 1806 🔗

I don’t really care about it and like you haven’t thought about it but this colleague of mine got cold feet and would rather wait until October for us to socialise.

It does give one an insight of how many people have really brought into this fear wholesale.

69639 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 16, #305 of 1806 🔗

One uplifting experience today and one thoroughly depressing one (though not surprising):

Went to our local junk shop (or pre-loved as they would prefer I call it no doubt) to look for some furniture. Had my lanyard in hand (I sort of agree with Biker on this that my objection is on the grounds of my liberty so why should I say I have a disability in order to get into a shop …). Anyway, went in and said I didn’t have a mask (I know the lady in there) she gave me a conspiratorial look as if to say that she agrees it’s all bollocks and in I went. And because of that, I spent some money in there.

Depressing experience: my commercial landlord came in with his rent demand. Though I have to say his face was greatly improved by the grotty mask he was wearing!

69702 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to kh1485, 13, #306 of 1806 🔗

Sorry, me again, went into HSBC, no mask (obvs), no lanyard (was feeling brave) and no-one said a word. A small victory. Walked down the street and the mask-wearers obligingly gave way for my disease-ridden self to make my way unhindered!

69650 HaylingDave, replying to HaylingDave, 17, #307 of 1806 🔗

Hi All,

So Hancock and Whitty have increased the self-isolation period from 7 to 10 days.

bbc.com/news/uk-53588709

Hancock said on BBC this morning (I know … stop!) that this move was following scientific advice and literature. In fact, I did see the CDC advising 10 days of isolation after testing positive in a recent report (July 26th):

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/isolation.html

This seems very fortuitous for the govt., as I can’t help but think that “they” are simply building up a checklist of steps taken to halt the second wave (when it doesn’t come in the fall) which they can tout:

“Well everyone, we avoided a deadly second wave because we made face masks mandatory in shops, and we added quarantine periods for EU arrivals, and we increased the self-isolation period to 10 days.”

I can only dread what is coming in the next few weeks.

Twats!

69653 ▶▶ Julian, replying to HaylingDave, 11, #308 of 1806 🔗

Your reading of it sounds pretty plausible to me. I hate supporting lies, but part of me wishes they’d invent some shit like “if you throw salt in the air once you have stepped outside your front door, you are immune, and this is a legal requirement” I’d do it and move on, if it meant all the other cobblers could be forgotten.

69777 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Julian, 2, #309 of 1806 🔗

Doesn’t throwing salt work then ?! Bugger …

69656 Awkward Git, 3, #310 of 1806 🔗

Just been on to that World Travel and tour Comapnies/Carnival website to watch the videos.

Well, well, well, the video about living with Covid-19 where the doctor says masks are only 50% effective has been taken down from public viewing.

Wonder what else is in it that should not have been said that I have not had chance to watch?

69658 PaulC, replying to PaulC, 22, #311 of 1806 🔗

Did anyone else see Matt Hancock interview on SKY this morning? He must have mentioned 5 or 6 times ‘second wave sweeping across Europe’.
I dread to think what they are planning.
Just when I start to feel optimistic I feel another kick in the teeth.
Are we really making any progress in rolling back the ‘fear’?

Good news – not been challenged once for not wearing a mask!

69661 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to PaulC, 15, #312 of 1806 🔗

Did he mention that it’s not “sweeping across” Sweden?

69668 ▶▶▶ PaulC, replying to Nick Rose, 8, #313 of 1806 🔗

No he didn’t!! My brother lives in Sweden – what a contrast!

69670 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to PaulC, 12, #314 of 1806 🔗

Every opportunity I get I mention Sweden. Sends the lockdown zealots into instant meltdown. Have to get my kicks from somewhere, lol.

69971 ▶▶▶▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to Nick Rose, #315 of 1806 🔗

Do they mention Denmark and Norway? 😉

70006 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Wickwar Bob, 1, #316 of 1806 🔗

Almost always. And less population density than in UK. Less dense, certainly.

70007 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #317 of 1806 🔗

One today pointed out that Sweden has a higher death rate than the USA. I replied that the USA has a death rate two-thirds our own and not every State locked down, whereas all the UK did.

70339 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to Nick Rose, #318 of 1806 🔗

I saw that comment on guide today.. haha most that site is basically the cabinet in cognito.
However a few months ago there was almost no one critic of this charade. Now there are quite a few not impressed to st Boris. I have to say I’m ashamed I voted for him. I thought he would be good but fck me I was wrong. To be fair the opposition have been utterly useless. Not a squeak of critical dissent against this shit show!

70340 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ steve, replying to steve, #319 of 1806 🔗

Guido’s site not guide!

70027 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #320 of 1806 🔗

Quite a good response to that here by lumping Scotland into the Nordic group:

A ‘Nordic’ comparison: Sweden has lower overall mortality than Finland – and Scotland!

70220 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to Wickwar Bob, 7, #321 of 1806 🔗

The Dutch government yesterday decided to join the Scandinavians outside the asylum, and announced that they will not advise any more mask-wearing, as there is no evidence that it’s effective. The more governments like these behave calmly and rationally, the more our clowns will be shown up for what they are.

69690 Basics, #322 of 1806 🔗

China are seeing small increases in corona virus cases. They are blaming the source on sea food coming in from abroad.

Source: Sky News reporter Tom ‘our man in china’ Something.

69692 swedenborg, 2, #323 of 1806 🔗

https://abc7.com/health/family-details-last-days-of-1st-dog-in-us-with-covid-19/6341676/
“1st pet dog in US with COVID-19 dies in NYC, family details his last days The Mahoneys say about every two weeks a new problem would arise; he could no longer control his bladder, his breathing grew much heavier, and then he developed trouble walking.”

 Perhaps another worldometer?

69697 Cecil B, #324 of 1806 🔗

Simon Dolan’s appeal in the High Court does not appear to be going that well

https://youtu.be/CKiqHpbFz68

69698 Tim Bidie, 4, #325 of 1806 🔗

Maybe the government could spend some more of our money making Moai statues?

Those kept the people of Easter Island safe for hundreds of years and apparently improved the fishing.

It looks like a lot of fun and you never know: it might work…..?

And we’re going to need more statues………

And something to do……..

69699 Nick Rose, 3, #326 of 1806 🔗
69700 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 8, #327 of 1806 🔗

Posted this in yesterdays edition late but again to give some comfort that stupidity is not only in this country

https://twitter.com/FrankfurtZack/status/1288707765574172672/photo/1

Austria’s new Law where you must wear masks

Masks:Pharmacies,GPsurgeries,Banks,Bakeries,Butchers,Small general stores,Catholic churches,Mosques,Public Transport,Supermarkets,Petrolstation shops,Hospitals

No Masks: Hard ware stores,Clothes-Fashion Shops, Evangelic Churches,Museums,Restaurants

This is the scientific logical thinking of the young, charismatic Chancellor of Austria to keep the country virus free. Good luck.

69751 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to swedenborg, 7, #328 of 1806 🔗

Is the virus Protestant?

70004 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Mr Dee, #329 of 1806 🔗

Don’t know.But it must been some form of divine ruling in the maskorder

70104 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to swedenborg, #330 of 1806 🔗

Rather bizarre list and looks like security has gone out of the window with muzzling inside a bank.

69701 Fed up, replying to Fed up, 5, #331 of 1806 🔗

Dr Fauci has just been quoted as saying “we know that every single good study-and by good study I mean randomised control study…”.

did I not read here that RCT has not been undertaken for non-PPE masks I.e. the face coverings you can make following the Gov arts and crafts guidance?

so without RCT for face coverings, where is the ‘good science’?

69812 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Fed up, 3, #332 of 1806 🔗

This is the guy that said New York “did it correctly”.

How anybody can take him seriously after saying that I don’t know.

69707 kf99, replying to kf99, 3, #333 of 1806 🔗

There are modern cruiseships going for scrap. https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/5423/
Why don’t UKGov buy a couple to act as floating Nightingale hospitals? They could be crewed by the Navy as well, conveniently bypassing the NHS. Post covid they could be handy to fly the flag around the world – the International Aid budget could pay for that.

69761 ▶▶ Basics, replying to kf99, 1, #334 of 1806 🔗

Good plan. The only flaw being it would prevent the Aid budget being syphoned off into intangible opague deals that leave little to show for them besides a more unhappy and destabilised target country.

69817 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to kf99, 1, #335 of 1806 🔗

I don’t like the idea of being carted off to a sinkable ship because I have a persistent cough

69864 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #336 of 1806 🔗

Don’t worry you can wear ppe as it goes down. I do wonder though will we ever get our conference centres back.

70003 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tom Blackburn, #337 of 1806 🔗

Can’t be any worse than being inside a combustible hospital.

69881 ▶▶ annie, replying to kf99, #338 of 1806 🔗

Why don’t they buy one, embark themselves on it and set sail for Hell, calling at nearby Melbourne on the way?

70302 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to annie, #339 of 1806 🔗

Please oh please take Daniel Andrews and his cabal of scum away with them when they call – I’d like to be permanently out of this dump *before* Christmas.

69712 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 19, #340 of 1806 🔗

It’s bloody disgrace that Birds bakery refused to sell bread to a 94 year old pensioner. I hope the residents of Arnold take note and make their feelings felt.

It amazes me how the powers that be, who are obviously intent on driving us towards being a cashless society, intend to accommodate the nine million—yes that’s 9,000000—adults in this country who are functionally illerate. Also, If you add to that the millions of elderly who are indeed literate but cannot get a handle on computerised banking what are they to do?

The government and the banks may be taking us down the cashless route but it will create yet more misery, povery, hardship and swell the numbers of people who simply cannot function in this Dystopean world they have mapped out for us.

Yet more evidence that government is not their to safeguard the welfare of people but to facilitate the interests of those who care not one jot about humanity.

69725 ▶▶ kf99, replying to Harry hopkins, 12, #341 of 1806 🔗

Agreed, and what I don’t understand is why you would want to give about 2% of your country’s entire GDP to Visa and Mastercard. Massive risk of cyber attacks apart from anything else.

69855 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to kf99, #342 of 1806 🔗

Which is why, of course, that nuclear weapons, Trident etc. are completely redundant and any monies spent on them a sheer waste. Why would any potential enemy want to risk self annihilation by throwing bombs about when all it takes is the complete freezing of a countries financial and business system? No money, no food, no nothing.

69727 ▶▶ p02099003, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #343 of 1806 🔗

Actually it could be illegal under anti discrimination legislation. Certainly if they refused to serve an adult with learning disabilities who doesn’t have a bank account never mind a bank card there would be a strong case.

69713 Awkward Git, 16, #344 of 1806 🔗

Got this onto the Mail’s comments:

“Should be reworded to say more and more people realising the laws are nonsensical and make no sense and certainly do not follow the much touted science and are woking up to the psychological propaganda bombardment we are continually under from MSM and the idiots in charge. Bad laws should be defied. All it takes for evil to triumph is for good to stand back and take no action. “I was just following orders” is not a legal defence and unless we fight back this will go on forever.”

Wonder how the replies and votes will got today? 77th and 13th working or asleep?

10 seconds – 2 up, 3 down.

69718 p02099003, 2, #345 of 1806 🔗

Now the self isolating time has increased to 10 days if you test positive or have symptoms. This means that everyone who is employed will need a fitness to work note from their GP as you can only self certify for 7 days.

69739 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Sarigan, 5, #347 of 1806 🔗

https://medium.com/@filiperafaeli/hydroxychloroquine-the-narrative-that-doesnt-work-is-the-biggest-hoax-in-recent-human-history-2685487ad717
This is a too long very verbose rambling article by a leftist Brazilian hating Bolsonaro/Trump.But the interesting is that he has followed HCQ from the beginning and come to conclusion that it works and it is the biggest fraud in the history done by the Big Pharma. There are parts of the article with interesting information but be warned a very badly edited and scripted article.

70143 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to swedenborg, #348 of 1806 🔗

I guess he thought speed was important – well done him !

69779 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Sarigan, 5, #349 of 1806 🔗

https://arxiv.org/abs/2007.09477
“We conclude their randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial presents statistical evidence, at 99% confidence level, that the treatment of Covid-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine is effective in reducing the appearance of symptoms if used before or right after exposure to the virus. For 0 to 2 days after exposure to virus, the estimated relative reduction in symptomatic outcomes is 72% after 0 days, 48.9% after 1 day and 29.3% after 2 days. For 3 days after exposure, the estimated relative reduction is 15.7% but results are not statistically conclusive and for 4 or more days after exposure there is no statistical evidence that hydroxychloroquine is effective in reducing the appearance of symptoms.
 According to BBC this is discredited treatment and thus must be censored any mentioning of it to protect us from misinformation.

69731 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #350 of 1806 🔗

Open letter to the PM organised by Us For Them. Please sign if you can.

Dear Supporters,
We need your help, and we need it in the next 18 hours.
We’ve an open letter going around the medical and business communities that we’ve strong press interest in. It calls for 1) no social distancing in schools 2) no face-masks in schools 3) schools to be prioritised in the event of future waves of Covid-19.
You can read and sign it here .
Mainstream press want to publish it over the weekend, and it has already been signed by many of the leading paediatricians and academics in the UK, including Professor Ellen Townsend, the team at http://www.reachwell.org , and Dr Sunil Bhopal, (Chair of the International Child Health Group). However we need more signatures, in particular, from the business community. The deadline is 3pm tomorrow .
Please can you ALL sign, and particularly if you are a business or professional leader. Please can you also share this in your networks. We’ve worked hard over the last fortnight to site feel ‘more friendly’ and shareable – more on that in a newsletter to follow later this week – and now we need more of you to help spreading our message into the mainstream.

https://usforthem.co.uk/open-letter-re-approach-to-schools?ss_source=sscampaigns&ss_campaign_id=5f21d91ea36df635ea196e1a&ss_email_id=5f21dff4db243b6f7460f963&ss_campaign_name=%E2%AD%90%EF%B8%8F%E2%AD%90%EF%B8%8F%E2%AD%90%EF%B8%8FUrgent+Request+for+Signatures+on+Open+Letter+%E2%AD%90%EF%B8%8F%E2%AD%90%EF%B8%8F%E2%AD%90%EF%B8%8F&ss_campaign_sent_date=2020-07-29T20%3A46%3A14Z

69801 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, #351 of 1806 🔗

schools to be prioritised in the event of future waves of Covid-19.

What does that mean exactly?

70000 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #352 of 1806 🔗

I take it to mean that they stay open at all costs.

69733 Basics, 2, #353 of 1806 🔗

…MALI!!!

(For those who remember from yesterday – it has tickled me, so very uplifting!)

69734 RickH, replying to RickH, -4, #354 of 1806 🔗

Not sure why the link to the Fail’s ‘Pity Poor Murdoch’ item is here as an example of the BBC’s ‘bias’. The idea that the general bias in the Corp certainly is ‘left wing’ is laughable if you were paying attention during the last election!

Stick to the knitting.

69744 ▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 8, #355 of 1806 🔗

The idea that the general bias in the Corp certainly is ‘left wing’ is laughable if you were paying attention during the last election

Pure fantasy, It’s an established fact that most BBC editorial, managerial and journalistic staff are leftist, admitting to voting Labour or LibDem and with a general culture in which openly supporting even the soft left “Conservative” Party is regarded as career suicide.

69758 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 5, #356 of 1806 🔗

Well, I consider myself a moderate, small-c conservative, though on the liberal wing, if that’s not a contradiction, and when I look at the BBC “news” website it just looks to me like a campaign page for a Social Justice organisation, rather than a news site that is meant to be impartial. I didn’t pay much attention to who they supported, if anyone, in the last election, but even if it’s true they gave reasonable coverage to the Conservatives, that’s not proof they are not left-wing – always assuming you accept that the Conservatives (at least the leadership and parliamentary party) are fairly left-wing by “conservative” standards. I guess as is stated below, views have moved to the left, and I have been left behind! It’s a better world in many ways that it was, worse in many others. The covid bollocks seems far worse to me as it’s a war on rationality and truth and on true science, and the triumph of emotionalism over common sense.

69793 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 13, #357 of 1806 🔗

The BBC version of “left” is no more traditional socialist left wing politics than the Conservative Party’s version of “right” is traditional conservative right wing politics. What’s amusing about the left vs right argument that’s going on here today is that both sides are right and both are arguing past one another.

As a society, we’ve been couching things in terms of left and right for over a century, but meanwhile the actual political argument has completely tilted itself on its axis, but we struggle to drop the labels.

Conservative politics over the last 30 or so years has had less and less to do with conservative social, economic and political values and more and more to do with moderated free market capitalism (note “moderated”. Imagine the horror – THE HORROR – of actual free market capitalism) and comparative fiscal conservatism (again, comparative, not absolute, heaven forfend) and small government only in the sense of applying the brakes to the acceleration of the expansion of the state, not in the sense of actually trying to reduce the size of the state.

Meanwhile, Labour and the most vocal “leftist” politics during the same period has had less and less to do with economic socialism and internationalism and class-and-economic-based social justice and more and more to do with the values of the so-called metropolitan (as distinct from working class urban) “liberal left”, which has nothing to do with socialism, other than that it has co-opted elements of revolutionary Marxism and much of the language of the traditional left to support its globalist (as opposed to internationalist), paternalist, victim culture agenda and in order to keep the masses supine. The post-Blair “leftest” expansion of the state agenda is also about the creation of a client state, again to keep everybody quiet.

The reason that Corbyn was so unpopular within the modern wing of the Labour Party and the reason that the BBC tied itself in knots trying to be simultaneously anti-Corbyn and anti-Johnson is precisely because he was of the traditional left and not of the new, acceptable left.

I speak as someone who is traditional conservative minded and doesn’t like any of current politics overmuch.

69810 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 2, #358 of 1806 🔗

I think there’s something in what you say. I preferred politics as it was when I was a boy.

69889 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #359 of 1806 🔗

There’s a lot of truth in what you write there, and indeed there is truth in the detail of what those on the other side of this issue from me write (where, as most but not all have done, they’ve managed to resist the temptation to resort to personal abuse). These are complex matters of which we must necessarily speak here in simplifications and generalisations.

But I do (obviously) think your even handed response is a simplification too far, and ignores the reality that left/right, radical/conservative does have real, objective meaning, and that our society has moved very significantly on precisely the axis broadly represented by that meaning over the past long lifetime (actually part of a process stretching back to the French Revolution). The devil is in the details and there has been much to-ing and fro-ing on the details (as with the fight over direct, formal (as opposed to indirect and informal) state control of industry that was resolved in the 1970s and 1980s in the UK), but the overall picture remains.

In the course of one long lifetime we changed from a basically Christian, patriotic society (in terms of elite dogmas and structures at least), to a post-Christian self-hating one, and from a society where the government spent 10% of gdp to one where it spends 40% and closely regulates how much of the rest is spent.

69964 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #360 of 1806 🔗

I do agree with that part of what you’re saying. The idea that the traditional left has “won” is very true. You only need to look at the number of things that are beyond debate here (sizeable welfare state, institutionalised nationalised healthcare, “progressive” taxation, a significant level of regulated workers’ rights) but are still the subject of heated debate in the US between the more traditional liberal and conservative camps. However, I’m not sure it’s so much that socialism won, but that conservatism gave up and disappeared. The last meaningful left/right political rivalry we had was thatcher and Kinnock – and while Kinnock was a socialist, Thatcher (who had many principles and qualities, many of them good) was not in any real sense a conservative).

I want to get to the shifting on its axis thing, but I have to go out now. More later if the site is still working and I remember!

70024 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, #361 of 1806 🔗

The idea that the traditional left has “won” is very true. You only need to look at the number of things that are beyond debate here (sizeable welfare state, institutionalised nationalised healthcare, “progressive” taxation, a significant level of regulated workers’ rights) but are still the subject of heated debate in the US between the more traditional liberal and conservative camps .”

That’s pretty much what I’m saying, with some adjustments and additions around the edges. There are areas where the debate is pretty much over in the US as well (some of those covered by political correctness and identity politics, mainly).

However, I’m not sure it’s so much that socialism won, but that conservatism gave up and disappeared .”

Well yes. Exactly. Disappeared from mainstream politics and (mostly) from elite and public discourse, anyway.

Socialism is not the entirety of the radical left, though it was always a large part of it. Then again in reality we live in what is largely (by the standards of the time when it was first conceived) a socialist state anyway. It’s not a binary issue.

Agree about Thatcher. She was personally socially conservative in some areas, but in government she was more liberal (in the old British sense) than conservative, and her victory really represented a tactical victory of conservatives allied with liberals against the.straightforward “commanding heights of the economy” direct, formal state control aspect of socialism. But it was not any longlasting victory against any other aspect of the left’s agendas.

69735 elliotsdad, 4, #362 of 1806 🔗

My GP practice has actually been pretty good the last month or so, though most appointments are phone consultations. I’ve had 3 telephone appointments and even one face to face appointment and all within a day or two, plus a chest X-ray at a local treatment centre. So far so good.

However, although not serious (I hope!) my GP has deemed it necessary to refer me to my local hospital Treatment Centre and warned me it might be a while before I got my appointment. I got the letter with details book my appointment – but no appointments available.

Then I get another letter from the hospital informing me that “NHS England is currently using our Treatment Centre for extra capacity, to help ease pressures on the NHS as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic….. ” blah blah blah.

https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-portsmouth-qa-hospital-goes-seven-weeks-without-any-covid-19-deaths-2523054

I live near Portsmouth and according to the local paper no covid deaths have occurred there since June 5th. So what exactly do NHS England need the extra capacity for? Does anyone know where to find information about the number of people in hospitals for covid treatment and how many are for what type of treatment?

Is there any activity going on in hospitals other than for covid? Obviously, covid is the only ilness that people are allowed treatment for and not allowed to die from – not that I’m saying I’m dying.

69736 Jonathan Smith, replying to Jonathan Smith, 6, #363 of 1806 🔗

Just received this unsolicited text from my GP surgery and a few things occur to me:
1. How are we to forget that Covid is supposed to be a threat when the news is spewing this out 24/7?
2. The advice to stay 2m apart conflicts with current advice.
3. No mention of muzzles.

69749 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Jonathan Smith, 14, #364 of 1806 🔗

I’m going mad, I read the third sentence as “avoid milkshakes” Though bearing in mind HMG’s war on obesity, that’s probably on the way!

69795 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 4, #365 of 1806 🔗

Milkshakes are definitely less healthy than handshakes!

69802 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to kh1485, 4, #366 of 1806 🔗

Milkshakes are dangerous, but a handshake could kill you!

69778 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Jonathan Smith, 8, #367 of 1806 🔗

I think that text needs a reply of f**k off.

69880 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jonathan Smith, 2, #368 of 1806 🔗

Makes me want to rush out and shake hands right, left and centre.

70039 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jonathan Smith, 1, #369 of 1806 🔗

They do provide a thoughtful ‘Block Number’ button …

70109 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Smith, #370 of 1806 🔗

Makes me want to go round and hug people!

69741 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 17, #371 of 1806 🔗

Just looked at Hancock interview on Sky. He sounds as if he’s had some sort of microchip inserted. Like a monotonous android. Also I think the power has gone to his head. On R4’sToday ( yes…I know ..) he actually used the words: ‘ I’m the health secretary and we’re in the middle of a pandemic’. The fact that he’s blinded by his new found importance doesn’t excuse the ridiculously weak questions from Nick Robinson. No mention of deaths/ hospital admissions numbers or context and localisation of ‘spike’ numbers. Shameful but I’ve already complained to BBC 3 times in last week and am losing the will to live. Cannot believe they keep doubling down. Any rational explanation other than prolonging the power grab and avoidance of accountability ?

69747 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Telpin, 15, #372 of 1806 🔗

The power went to his head at the start and has stayed there. He’s one of the worst. A nation ruined in part by attention-seeking vanity by a few people in power. Prolonging the power grap and avoidance of accountability are the only explanations that fit the evidence,

69756 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Telpin, 1, #373 of 1806 🔗

Maybe Hancock needs a tinfoil hat.

69768 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Telpin, 7, #374 of 1806 🔗

He does strike as the slightly bullied at school type hence any power he has has gone to his head.

69757 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 23, #375 of 1806 🔗

My YouTube reply that keeps being taken down. Apologies if my maths is a bit wonky or if I’ve gone to the wrong source. Need to get it off my chest.

I’ve given up trying to find the true reason behind this hoax – cashless society, Agenda 21, Agenda 30, NWO, compulsory vaccinations, digital ID, face recognition technology, billionaire cabal running the world, anti racism, BLM, anti church, T Blair Faith Foundation, anti white, anti working class, left wing, right wing, save the earth or uncle tom cobley. Could be 1 could be all.

Let’s look at the facts of what we do know. Professor Ferguson using a very unreliable ‘model’ predicted 510,000 deaths if the government didn’t do anything. Actual deaths (debatable bearing in mind complete ignorance of true counting and whimsical reporting with no postmortem) = 51264 according to ONS.

Now if I spoke to my boss and said ‘boss, I can increase your profits by £510,000.00’, at the end of the year if I increased his profits by £51,264.00 I would be handed my P45.

Figures = pop UK 67,914,250 % of deaths = 0.0755%

Deaths Age 75+ 38263 – 75%, 45 to 74 – 12444 = 24%, <=1 year – 44 – 557 = 1%.

The virus has gone, it is not killing anyone any more, infections mean nothing. IFR is <1%.

In the last 6 months I have lost 2 people to cancer and 0 to CV 19.

69794 ▶▶ Mark, replying to stefarm, 7, #376 of 1806 🔗

The fact that your opinion is actively censored tells us a lot about how we got where we are. The policy might be new (at least in the manner and degree to which it is imposed), but the underlying attitudes are not.

69818 ▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to stefarm, 15, #377 of 1806 🔗

I don’t know anyone who’s even had the virus, though I’ve met plenty who had the correct symptoms – dry cough, breathlessness, fever, etc – in January, December, and even November, before the panic began and it acquired a reputation. I had something that would qualify as Covid myself in mid-December, had to go to bed for a couple of days, and the cough persisted for over three weeks.

There are lots of very odd things about this virus.

1 It has never been isolated and purified or been subjected to Koch’s protocols.

2 The PCR test being used so prolifically to diagnose it was specifically declared by the inventor of PCR technology, Kary Mullis, to be inappropriate for the detection of a viral infection.

3 It has no unique symptoms to distinguish it from other diseases, and additional non-unique symptoms have been added as the death rate falls – perhaps in order to encourage or compel the fearful to submit themselves to testing and keep the “case” rates high.

4  For a “killer virus” Covid has proved remarkably benign, targeting those among the population that a eugenicist, or a cash-strapped government, might be keen to thin out.

5 An intriguing number of those testing positive appear to have no symptoms, or to switch repeatedly from negative to positive.

6 Defying what you’d expect of a “pandemic”, deaths attributed to the virus world-wide remain within the normal range of a bad flu season, at around 650,000.

As you say, Steve, this appears to be a political event: cashless society, compulsory vaccinations, and the Agenda 2030 stuff – it’s the perfect excuse. You can do a lot with a run-of-the-mill seasonal respiratory illness, inappropriate treatment, and the instigation of mass panic. Especially the last. We didn’t have daily announcements of deaths during the Hong Kong flu, in 1968, when 80,000 died. I was a young mother then, and until now I didn’t even know that it had happened.

69846 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Gillian Swanson, 4, #378 of 1806 🔗

The ‘symptoms’ of Covid can be read on any leaflet of prescribed medicine as a side effect. I’ve just checked my anti histamine pills and if I had a reaction to them no doubt, under the current Scamdemic, I would be headed for Covid isolation!—madness!

70344 ▶▶ steve, replying to stefarm, #379 of 1806 🔗

Stop trying to make sense of the “death” with coronabollox. The numbers are so manipulated.
PHE we’re counting everyone even if they recovered 2 months ago and died in a car crash.
Now after they got busted they changed the rules. Now there is a cut of date of 28 days! So that’s OK now. Test positive 28 days ago and your parachute doesn’t open, still coronabollox death.

The only numbers that are reliable is the totL excess deaths and this shows this up to be 8th biggest in the past 28 years. Yes 8th.

https://hectordrummond.com/2020/07/17/another-jaw-dropping-graph/

69762 Alice, 24, #380 of 1806 🔗

Great comments on Conservative Woman board:

The business of the Government is to defend our borders, maintain law and order, and ensure the integrity of the currency.
“Defend our borders”. Fail
“Maintain law and order”. Fail
“Maintain integrity of our currency” Fail
Since when did concerning itself with facing coverings, or my dinner plate, become the responsibility of these proven idiots?
Be fair, at least these are tasks they might succeed at.

69765 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #381 of 1806 🔗

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jmv.26364
Very interesting article from Iran just published. Tom Jefferson Oxford Group discussed early in the pandemic the risk of co-infection must be assessed.The PCR tests can be positive up to 12 weeks. If one person was mildly infected 12 weeks ago and then got 12 weeks later respiratory symptoms and died, do you think this would not be attributed to the pos PCR test as a Covid-19 death instead of flu or other virus? Would they have done virus isolation of Covid-19 or flu investigation?
 “We found co‐infection with influenza virus in 22.3%, respiratory syncytial virus, and bocavirus in 9.7%, parainfluenza viruses in 3.9%, Human metapneumovirus in 2.9% and finally adenovirus in 1.9% of SARS‐CoV‐2 positive dead cases.

69872 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to swedenborg, #382 of 1806 🔗

Where do you get the 12 weeks from? (I’d very much like to be able to quote it to people!)

69915 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #383 of 1806 🔗

The recent
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.25.20162107v2
But it was well known maximum 12 weeks pos rather long time from Korea CDC which did virl cultures to prove it.The korean document is included in the CDC document I don’t have the link at hand now but posted earlier

69977 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to swedenborg, #384 of 1806 🔗

That’s great, thanks.

69771 Gillian Swanson, replying to Gillian Swanson, 17, #385 of 1806 🔗

Went to Morrison’s yesterday, first time to the shops since last Thursday. Wore lanyard, no problems at all from staff, but didn’t see anyone else unmasked. Perhaps I was being glared at by customers, but I don’t know – the most distressing thing was being surrounded by all those obediently masked faces, so I adopted tunnel vision and concentrated on my shopping, which blurred out nasty peripheral details.

69781 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Gillian Swanson, 13, #386 of 1806 🔗

I stick my earphones in and listen to a podcast so I’m the unmasked one walking around laughing. They must think I’m a lunatic….then again….

69791 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to Gillian Swanson, 14, #387 of 1806 🔗

Morrison’s at 9pm yesterday. Just walked in – no badge. One other in there unmasked. No bother.

69811 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 8, #388 of 1806 🔗

likewise i went to tescos at 9pm unmasked (only one) – it’s pretty quiet and no-one bothered me at all. I think it helped that I’d just been walk/jog and probably didn’t smell so good and a 2metre social distance would be the minimum distance i would recommend if not 4m. 🙂
I think i’ll just go later in the evening and brave it.

69825 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Sue, 9, #389 of 1806 🔗

Yes, evenings are best. I think I’ll try without the lanyard next time, and see what happens. Haven’t been to the Co-op yet, until the mask fiasco I used to go there and the Sainsbury’s local between 8 and 9 at night. But now Sainsbury’s have actually had an ad on Classic FM lately asking their customers to wear a mask. Why ? I thought they were the first supermarket to say their staff wouldn’t enforce the regulationsw.

70132 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Gillian Swanson, 2, #390 of 1806 🔗

Was at Waitrose yesterday, no problems from the staff at all. One old man gave me a dirty look for not being muzzled, replied with a manic grin which caused him to look away quickly.

69775 wendyk, 9, #391 of 1806 🔗

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-scandal-of-excess-deaths-at-home

Another good article by Dr Waqqar Rashid, one of the best critics of the current madness.

This article is free.

69780 stefarm, 5, #392 of 1806 🔗

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/were-up-tts-dreadnought-leith-18683730.amp

This is my local, the owner has just about managed to stay afloat by doing home deliveries and take aways. Wee nic Jong-un really doesn’t give a fuck about small business.

69782 PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, 6, #393 of 1806 🔗

US Frontline Doctors video about HCQ preventative /cure taken down: now their website also taken down, see both conference sessions at:

Session 1 https://www.bitchute.com/video/xYDjgGtmEasl/

Session 2 https://www.bitchute.com/video/g6CYOg0lojcK/

69790 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, 5, #394 of 1806 🔗

URGENT: Yale Prof. Risch, Epidemiologist calling for use of HCQ in Newsweek, read it while you can:
https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535
I have a copy but don’t know how to upload here

69797 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 14, #395 of 1806 🔗

In a shopping centre …plenty of people without masks out and about both in and out of shops. I had no problem going into a bank totally maskless despite notice outside declaring that face coverings must be worn. Staff were very helpful and pleasant. So some encouraging signs.

69805 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to OKUK, 14, #396 of 1806 🔗

I’m making a point when we’re in restaurants where the staff are masked of asking them how they’re coping with it. None of them are comfortable, so if we can focus their minds on that it might make them more resistant if not in the restaurants (where they might lose their jobs) at least elsewhere.

69806 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to OKUK, 19, #397 of 1806 🔗

I wish I could say the same, it’s not been my experience. Yesterday I went to a builders merchants, a massive outdoor affair and a massive, airy shop section. I went to go in and there were cars parked up outside so I went round them and was greeted at the entrance by someone in a shed and a cone in the road. I asked if they were shut and she said they’re operating a one in and one out system. I just said you’re kidding and said I’d go somewhere else. I thought tough builders would’ve been immune to the nonsense! Anyway, I went somewhere else and they treated me like a human and I spent about £200!

69831 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Moomin, 11, #398 of 1806 🔗

If these people want to kill their businesses it is up to them. You did the right thing spending where you are treated like a human.

69856 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to OKUK, 9, #399 of 1806 🔗

One of the best jokes of the year is that they have made it law that you must wear a mask in Banks, Building Societies and Post Office. You really could not make it up.

70218 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #400 of 1806 🔗

I always found that bizarre. They will change their tune once there’s a spate of bank and post office robberies.

70217 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to OKUK, 1, #401 of 1806 🔗

Went to two takeaways today both said mandatory muzzles but I wasn’t wearing one and got served no problem at all.

69804 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 20, #402 of 1806 🔗

Feeling disheartened again today. So many people complying with the mask wearing and now Hancock announces 10 days self-isolation. I just can’t see an end to this madness.

69815 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to Moomin, 4, #403 of 1806 🔗

The answer, contrary to mainstream media denialism, is here:
https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535
Be quick, it may get taken down like the other reports & evidence. I have a copy but I don’t see how to upload here.
The website below aggregates results of HCQ studies throughout the world, it speaks for itself:
https://c19study.com

69821 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to PowerCorrupts, 2, #404 of 1806 🔗

Great article thanks.

69823 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Moomin, 9, #405 of 1806 🔗

Don’t worry about the self-isolation nonsense. I’m not sure how it can affect us unless we’re Covid-zelaots who self-police ourselves.

As for the mass mask-wearing, that’s they’re problem, not yours.

At times like this I find the philosophy of Epictetus very useful:

“We have no power over external things, and the good that ought to be the object of our earnest pursuit, is to be found only within ourselves.”

69828 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Moomin, 6, #406 of 1806 🔗

Kevin look at what is within your control. If others either want to or agree to mask wearing that is up to them.

Lookout for yourself and the ones you care for.

Stay strong.

69859 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #407 of 1806 🔗

Thanks for all the replies. It’s most of the ones I care for who have fallen for the madness. The thought of my kids/wife having to wear them in shops is gut wrenching.

70658 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Moomin, #408 of 1806 🔗

Your wife is a grown woman and will make her own decisions. Your children under 11 are exempt. If out with her and she chooses they mask – live with it. It’s a bit like marrying a Catholic, the children have to follow their faith, until they go it alone.

69853 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, 2, #409 of 1806 🔗

Keep pushing, mate.

69863 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Moomin, 2, #410 of 1806 🔗

You mean the Madness of Matt Hancock? He’s been under a lot of strain lately, poor boy, wondering how to keep stringing us along until the Vaccine materialises.

69814 AngryEmails, 2, #411 of 1806 🔗

Has anyone yet staretd a campaign of emailing those bastards at BIrds’Bakery to give them a good ticking off for their crimes. How might they enjoy getting a strongly worded emeail from every sceptic, every day? Forcing those sods to climb down could be pretty good for our side’s cause and for driving back the forces of coronanism.

69816 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #412 of 1806 🔗

https://twitter.com/BDUTT/status/1288092744338956290/photo/1
This article published on the forum yesterday about 57% of slumdwellers in Mumbai Sars-Cov2 pos.The numbers are mind-boggling. Mumbai has 18 million people. Let us say 10 million are slum dwellers gives 5 million cases.(Beginning of July).Apart from 3 Indians from Kerala infected from Wuhan Jan early Feb the first C-19 infection in Dehli beginning of March. The actual registered cases Covid-19 in Mumbai are very low and death rate IFR must be very, very low.Covid-19 must be the lowest on the list of health problems for a slum dweller. Most of the infections of these 5 millions must have been asymptomatic or minimal symptoms. How can 5 million people get infected so quick? A symptomatic super spreader running around in Mumbai slum? Food or water intake? Asymptomatic to asymptomatic? Does anyone know how this virus really is spreading? This virus will spread whatever we do, it is unstoppable. The biggest hubris ever that we can stop it.The silent pandemic
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7200128/

69819 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to swedenborg, 4, #413 of 1806 🔗

The virus spreads through continuous news and PR. For whatever reason, India clearly isn’t interested in executing such a campaign.

69835 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #414 of 1806 🔗

Possibly they feel (rightly) that they have many more important problems

69829 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to swedenborg, 1, #415 of 1806 🔗

India, like many of the countries with very low cov19 moratlity, uses hydroxychloroquine as anti-malarial and in cov19 treatment & prevention, as did AmericasFrontlineDoctors, whose conference was removed by Facebook, youtube,Twitter etc. Ist conference session at:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/xYDjgGtmEasl/

Article by Yale Prof. H. Risch, Epidemiologist currently at: unless removed:

https://www.newsweek.com/key-defeating-covid-19-already-exists-we-need-start-using-it-opinion-1519535

69845 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to swedenborg, #416 of 1806 🔗

There was a report that come out of Singapore where it was found in the sewers

health care was the vector for this bug and it wasn’t in the air; it was coming out your ass. I’ve written several articles on this exact point. MIT has even tested and proved they can find the virus in municipal sewer flows!

So is it bad hygiene coupled with hcq

https://market-ticker.org/cgi-mt/akcs-www?post=239747

69822 RickH, replying to RickH, 6, #417 of 1806 🔗

Just been doing a bit of quick research on anti-social media to check out sources of contrarian information re. Covid.

Now – I don’t claim this exercise to be statistically watertight. But there is now a clear tendency, as far as I can see, to censor scientific views that go up against the WHO Party Line.

Remember who were most broadly correct in their analyses about this virus : it wasn’t those embraced by the WHO and government (like Ferguson and ICL). Always, the confirmation by unfolding events has been on the side of the contrarians – such that the ‘official’ analyses have been peppered with everything on a scale from exclusion and exaggeration to actual fiction (see ‘Leicester’).

This finding is, of course, in line with what we have heard about censorship of the issue.

Unfortunately, for proponents of the ‘anti-conspiracy’ tendency, this actually tends to the opposite – *confirming* the concerted nature of the attack on wider understanding as Political interests, Big Data, Big Pharma and Big Finance combine to use their muscle in favour of censorship.

69827 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to RickH, 4, #418 of 1806 🔗

Off-Guardian have written an excellent article on just this subject:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/07/29/youtube-outlaws-contradicting-the-world-health-organization/

69841 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #419 of 1806 🔗

Yes, indeed. It was this article amongst other reports that prompted me to actually have a look-see on the ground (mainly of YouTube).

It’s ironic that, 30 years on, the collapse of the Soviet Union has proved such a detriment to the ‘West’. During the Cold War, there was always the example of the USSR and the Iron Curtain countries to demonstrate (despite a certain hypocrisy) the unattractive nature of totalitarian regimes, differentiate from them, and act as an incentive to steer away from the same sort of restrictions on life.

No longer.

69852 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to RickH, 1, #420 of 1806 🔗

Good point.

69847 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 4, #421 of 1806 🔗

It looks more and more like that – whether it was pre-orchestrated or whether those forces are taking advantage, I think it’s wrong to ascribe any honest, honourable intentions to any of those bodies, including our government. I know you don’t like our government anyway, but I voted for them, and there are sceptics who voted for them who think they are somehow innocent victims, or merely incompetent, and want to get out of this but are finding it hard to do so without upsetting the public. I just don’t buy that any more and the sooner any true “conservatives” realise we’ve been had the better for us, as they can start to put pressure on.

70319 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Julian, #422 of 1806 🔗

I think they are wilfully incompetent, if you take my meaning. They are not innocents but nor is there some sinister conspiracy at work – just the absolute worst of humanity, who often end up in politics for some reason.

69824 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 9, #423 of 1806 🔗

After reading an article SNP MSP Stewart Stevenson says he is considering wearing a face mask ‘for the rest of my life’ I am increasingly worried that these fanatics are going to bring in even more draconian measures for us all – they certainly don’t believe in individual freedom. Given the sheep like compliance of the general population I really fear for the country as they accept anything. Has anyone else read this madness?
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/2370675/snp-msp-stewart-stevenson-says-he-is-considering-wearing-a-face-mask-for-the-rest-of-my-life/

69837 ▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Darryl, 11, #424 of 1806 🔗

Yes, the less lethal this killer virus proves to be, the more they tighten the screws. I couldn’t believe they were actually choosing to lock down, with all the destruction of lives and livelihoods that implied; couldn’t believe they’d enforce masks. Now I wouldn’t put anything past them.

69839 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Darryl, 2, #425 of 1806 🔗

Please remove any delicate old ladies, and fasten down any loose children. OK? Right:
FUCK THAT.

69840 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Darryl, 5, #426 of 1806 🔗

I know it’s important to know your enemy but maybe some things are best avoided for ones own sanity
Better to think about the motivations and thought process of those who wear masks but are not mad like the MSP, but just want a quiet life/think it’s temporary, and how they can be persuaded that it’s nonsense

69878 ▶▶ annie, replying to Darryl, 1, #427 of 1806 🔗

Let him. He’ll be the only one and his life will be nasty, brutish and short.

70062 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to annie, 1, #428 of 1806 🔗

Yes, but people like him want us to do it too.

69886 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Darryl, 2, #429 of 1806 🔗

Not getting out of bed saves lives. I’ve often considered staying in bed for the rest of my life.

69894 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Darryl, 4, #430 of 1806 🔗

Does anyone remember the Two Ronnies series ‘Death can be Fatal’ ?

We could update to ‘Life can be Fatal’ or ‘Breath can be Fatal’.

If you have to live life, keeping distanced from other masked humans forever and curtail your movements, that is not a life.

70054 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Darryl, 1, #431 of 1806 🔗

Has he got a brain…cell?

70066 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to David Grimbleby, 1, #432 of 1806 🔗

No, he is a twat.

69832 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 16, #433 of 1806 🔗

Shopping report: Tescos, about 8.30am. No problems at all either from shopstaff or vigilante busy-bodies. On the downside, apart from myself, there was only 1 other unmasked shopper. Also, seemed to be more people just wearing masks on the streets. I cycled past one nutcase who had his mask pulled down, but pulled it up as I went past?! He wasn’t even walking on the edge of the pavement either (I was on the road). The level of fear and paranoia that has been instilled in the sheep is truly amazing.

69833 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Chicot, 1, #434 of 1806 🔗

Cyclist must have been a 7% death believer!

69910 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #435 of 1806 🔗

He was the pedestrian and probably a good metre or so from the road. He was worried that in the second or so I cycled past him, the virus was going to leap the gap and infect him.

69914 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Chicot, 4, #436 of 1806 🔗

Well, it did start jumping a lot further from last Thursday midnight, innit?

69834 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Chicot, 6, #437 of 1806 🔗

Wearing them on the streets; I suppose they can’t be bothered to take them off in between different shops. A good dose of stinking hot August weather might encourage them to do otherwise.

69838 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to thedarkhorse, 8, #438 of 1806 🔗

The rate of upper respiratory tract problems is going to sky rocket.

69851 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dave #KBF, 7, #439 of 1806 🔗

That’ll be that second wave then. It just keeps giving, a PR dream.

69875 ▶▶ annie, replying to Chicot, 3, #440 of 1806 🔗

Nay, Chicot the Jester, he was wearing it for you, thought you needed protecting, lol.

69842 Andy C, 8, #441 of 1806 🔗

Greetings, friends. Today’s report comes from M&S and Boots. There isn’t much to say on this occasion, really. I showed my exemption card to the man at the door at M&S and was waved through. One other person wasn’t wearing a mask in there. I picked up some essential items plus a very nice bottle of Spanish red for the weekend. Boots was also a painless affair. No questions asked whatsoever. I hope that future trips continue in this vein.

69849 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, #442 of 1806 🔗

Does anyone know where to find Guy de la Bedoyere’s article?

69979 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, #443 of 1806 🔗

On the front page, click on “new essay” in the first sentence. Should take you straight to it.

69850 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 12, #444 of 1806 🔗

Ret Rep. Phase 4 complete. Full weekly shop in Aldi, then Asda. Absolute breeze, no door goons, no hassle at all. Felt slightly apprehensive going in, but once in, you just think “What are all you idiots doing that for?”. Two adults and two kids maskless in Aldi, maybe a couple in Asda. Chatted to checkout staff both places, it felt absolutely normal.
To any one who’s nervous, just do it. We are with you and the law is on your side.

Off to Wethy’s this aft, in celebratory mood, getting it in before the inevitable local lockdown.

69874 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #445 of 1806 🔗

Great! (Not about any local lockdown, all based on lies if it does hapoen).

69854 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #446 of 1806 🔗

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.29.227389v1
Not good news for the zero Covid-19 fanatics
“This tight bond, not present in previous respiratory syndromes, implies that CoV-2 stays bound to the highly expressed ACE2 receptors in the nasal cavity about 100 times longer than CoV. This finding supports the unfamiliar pathology of CoV-2, observed virus retention in upper respiratory tract1, longer incubation times and extended periods of shedding. Implications to combat pandemics that, like SARS-CoV-2, export evolutionarily successful strains via higher transmission rates due to retention in nasal epithelium and their evolutionary origin are discussed”.

69876 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, #447 of 1806 🔗

I don’t get your point, that paper is highly theoretical and based on computer models; or did you see the title and not bother with the paper? I actually had to re-read parts of it because at some points I was asking myself “where are you getting this from,” and hear myself reply “oh yeah, computer model…” I’m not in the “COVID-19 is a hoax” camp, but the paper doesn’t say what you think it does

69917 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to IMoz, 3, #448 of 1806 🔗

My comment was irony

69857 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #449 of 1806 🔗

All GP consultations to be by phone or video, unless there is a ‘compelling’ reason for face to face. Got to get that population down.

69862 ▶▶ Edna, replying to Sam Vimes, 14, #450 of 1806 🔗

This government really don’t give two hoots about the elderly, do they? The elderly are the ones least likely to have any sort of internet access so no video consulations for them. The elderly are the ones most likely to have hearing problems, so the phone consultations will go well, won’t they?
Who will rid us of these turbulent priests?

69873 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Edna, 5, #451 of 1806 🔗

And what about the not so bright, the inarticulate, immigrants with limited English, all those who can’t describe symptoms with any precision?

69882 ▶▶▶▶ Edna, replying to annie, 4, #452 of 1806 🔗

Indeed. I shudder to imagine the health problems that will either be mis-diagnosed or missed completely because of this. Do these people have any compassion for those less fortunate than themselves?
As has been said by others, the people making the idiotic rules are not the people who will have their lives made a misery by them.

69891 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #453 of 1806 🔗

It has been like that for three months already at my surgery. Clearly it is a hotbed of infection.

69952 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #454 of 1806 🔗

I feel for the people. However for the last few years, if you visit the GP they barely looked at you, enter information into the computer and then prescribed some drug to you.

What they failed to do was to observe you, ask you lots of questions, identify the underlying cause of your illness, advise you how to improve your health, introduce wholesome foods, fix nutrient deficiencies and as a last resort prescribe some drug that will only manage your symptoms until you were able to improve your health.

69962 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #455 of 1806 🔗

Never let a good crisis go to waste. And this is the wonderful NHS we needed to protect and clap? The one that doesn’t much want to deal with, like, ill people?

69858 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #456 of 1806 🔗

Got bored so I thought I’d stir up trouble by writing to Trentham Estates. If you like anything in the e-mail then feel free to use ti in your own complaints to companies – will have to be in 2 parts due to length:

“I thought I would write to you and let you know what a depressing, despondent, totalitarian, dystopian nightmare you have made visiting Trentham Gardens shops into.

Before it was a place my wife enjoyed spending hours at browsing the shops and having lunch with friends.

After yesterday’s experience, until everything returns back to normal without restrictions, then I doubt we will be visiting again it was what can be described as such a bloody awful experience.

In every window was at least one sign with a Trentham Estates logo in the top right hand corner about wearing masks. On only one did it mention or have reference to a valid and acceptable exemption under the law and this was added on by hand and this only said “under 11s exempt”.

In the relevant legislation there are a lot more exemptions than just this one and ignoring them means that your tenants, yourselves as all the signs are from your management team, and the staff on a personal level are open to prosecution under the disability discrimination legislation which can lead to fines of £5000 for the company plus costs and £9000 plus costs from the individual staff as they are personally responsible.

Further information can be found here for your management and legal teams as they seem to be particularly uninformed in this matter judging by the wording of your notices displayed in every unit:

http://www.laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

http://www.laworfiction.com/blog/

In addition to this you do not make it clear that masks are not the only option, any face covering that covers the nose and mouth is acceptable.

You also do not make it clear that the face coverings are ONLY required in enclosed areas, the outside areas are not included in the legislation so why are there no notices in the walking areas stating “face coverings NOT required” in this area?

There are many signs that state “social distancing 2 m” or similar. This is only guidance and the Government has stated on many occasions that guidance and guidelines are not law nor are they enforceable. Social Distancing has NO legal standing in England.

Any please, do not insult my intelligence on this matter by trying to suggest otherwise.

Over the past few months I have been in communication with 3 local councils in this area and have it, in writing, that the above is correct and that they have no power or authority to insist on restrictive operating practices using the Health and Safety legislation that they quote as being relevant.

For example:

However, the responsibility for any risks assessments for their particular business and employees lies directly with the individual tenants.

“Q – With this in mind, please state what piece of legislation or legal basis your are using to force retailers and other businesses to abide by social distancing “guidelines” as if it has force of law?

A – Health & Safety at Work Act 1974 and Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999.”

Another council actually removed their pre-opening checklist from their website due to the legal problems that would arise if a premises used “I followed their checklist” as a defence.

I can see how some areas of the checklist may need further clarification and will be updated. The checklist has now been taken off the County’s website.

They only have powers over individual persons and individual premises under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 and they have not been following this as the protocols involved are very lengthy and also means that the local authority must pay compensation to cover their losses due to the imposed restrictions.

This is why council have not used this legislation but overstepped their powers by making businesses follow something that has no legal standing voluntarily. A few weeks ago central Government actually released a new framework to address this matter and in it it actually states:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/containing-and-managing-local-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreaks/covid-19-contain-framework-a-guide-for-local-decision-makers

“use their existing powers (under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984)

and

“Public Health (Control of Disease Act) 1984 [sections 45G, 45H and 45I]: local authorities can make an application to a Justice of the Peace in the Magistrates’ Court to impose restrictions or requirements to close contaminated premises”

69870 ▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #457 of 1806 🔗

Wow!
Why aren’t you running the country?
How I wish you were.

69860 Awkward Git, 6, #458 of 1806 🔗

Part 2:

“Under the Health and Safety legislation, councils do not have the power to enforce restrictions on operating as this falls within the remit of the Health and Safety Executive, the responsibility for instigating any necessary measures falls onto the individual premises owner/operator and as long as they do a risk assessment, do their own research and keep a record of why they think their mitigations, if any are required, are reasonable this is totally acceptable.

As the Government cannot supply any definitive science, cannot or will not supply their risk assessments that they have used to base any legislation on and bearing in mind this lack of supplied information is what non-enforceable “guidance” is based on then any risk assessments based on this guidance are not acceptable as it has no evidence to support the conclusions.

From correspondence that shows no risk assessment no science provided for the pre-opening checklists and risk assessments etc:

Q – Was a risk assessment used to generate the guidelines you issued? Please supply the risk
assessment.

A – No risk assessment produced.

and

Q – What “science”, Government backed or independent, was researched to generate the risk
assessment on which the checklist is based if the answer was “yes” to point 2? Please supply the
research and the evidence.

A – Please follow the link below:
https://www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/working-safely/risk-assessment.htm .

For example doing a risk assessment for social distancing. I know it is based on absolutely NO scientific evidence whatsoever and certainly no research has shown it to be effective in controlling the spread of viruses. Professor Robert Dingwall, who is a member of NERVTAG, admitted it was “conjured out of nowhere”.

It will be interesting how to justify any social distancing measure as part of a risk assessment when there is no evidence whatsoever that as a “safety measure” it actually has any effect on keeping people “safe”.

A business owner or operator cannot use the defence “I was following guidelines 100%” or “my landlord ordered me to do this” if there is an incident and they end up in court on a HSE charge. Will Trentham Estates have a representative in the court and dock with them as co-defendant as it was their guidelines or instructions the tenants were following? It is the tenant’s business/premises/operations and they should have performed their own risk assessment using their own research and they should have realised the guidelines were inadequate/irrelevant or inappropriate for their operations because if they were sufficient then the “incident” would not have happened or been mitigated.

Remember the phrase ALARP – as low as reasonably practicable – that is common in HSE legislation. This means exactly what it says, steps are taken to mitigate and lower the risk “as reasonably practicable”. This does not mean bankrupting the business/individuals/the country to try and stop something that has low or insignificant risk (Covid-19 was downgraded from HCID status on March 19th 2020) and as a virus cannot be stopped anyway. Research the Covid-19 data independently and draw your own conclusions on how much of a significant risk it is. I was going to put it here but as my conclusions may be tainted by my opinions it is better that you do the research yourself but fi you would like some pointers I am more than willing to give you some links to draw your own conclusions from.

Over 2000 years of dealing with influenza type illnesses has shown that they cannot be stopped, only slowed slightly, and that the most effective measures are:

1 – hand cleaning
2 – cough/sneeze etiquette. Use a clean handkerchief. Do it into your elbow then change clothes at earliest opportunity. Wash hands immediately if you cough/sneeze onto them.
3 – Stay in bed for a couple of days if you feel unwell.

This has been proven to work in 2020 as this was the original SAGE advice to the Government (and which Sweden and Belarus have followed throughout) and which the UK was following at the beginning of March 2020 and has recently been shown to be the correct advice because on the 21st July 2020 the Chief Medical Officer of England, Dr Chris Whitty, appeared before a Parliamentary select committee for health and social care.

Under questioning he stated the following on record:

“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

This, in effect, means that “the virus” infection rate was dropping drastically BEFORE the incarceration of the population started and that the existing precautions – wash hands properly, coughing etiquette, stay at home if you feel ill – were effectively controlling the spread of “the virus”.

Will have to go to part 3

69861 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 14, #459 of 1806 🔗

Part 3

It also means that the peak of the infections occurred PRIOR to the population incarceration commenced and as the average time from catching “the virus” to death has been widely stated as 23 days with the peak numbers of deaths occurring approximately 10-14 days from commencement of the incarceration it means that the imprisonment of the population and destruction of the economy has had NO effect whatsoever.

Also as part of a risk assessment an important document is the WHO publication from 2019 that has never been superseded or withdrawn titled “Non pharmaceutical public health measures for mitigating the risk and impact of epidemic and pandemic influenza” and which clearly states:

“The evidence base on the effectiveness of NPIs in community settings is limited, and the overall
quality of evidence was very low for most interventions. There have been a number of high quality
randomized controlled trials (RCTs) demonstrating that personal protective measures
such as hand hygiene and face masks have, at best, a small effect on influenza transmission”

“Travel-related measures are unlikely to
be successful in most locations because current screening tools such as thermal scanners cannot
identify pre-symptomatic infections and afebrile infections, and travel restrictions and travel bans
are likely to have prohibitive economic consequences.”

” There is also a lack of evidence for the effectiveness of improved respiratory
etiquette and the use of face masks in community settings during influenza epidemics and
pandemics.”

” Quality of evidence
There is a very low overall quality of evidence on whether avoiding crowding can reduce
transmission of influenza.”

At best, you have been badly advised by your top management and legal teams at all levels.

At worst you are a willing participant in deliberately misleading the people who visit Trentahm Gardens into following guidance that is neither law nor enforceable or is blatantly discriminatory.

Please pass this onto Blue Diamond Garden Centres as well as I have now visited 2 of their sites in recent days and they have both been miserable experiences as well as they are following the same systems you are.

And please, do not insult me by sending me a standardised form response mentioning “following government guidance” and so on, I have shown you above this is total nonsense.

Either ignore me or supply a reasonable, measured response as to what actions you will be taking to remedy the situation, avoid falling foul of the disability discrimination laws and to improve the experience of visiting so that it is welcoming once again.

69867 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #460 of 1806 🔗

Not Awkward at all, just potentially preventing an expensive court case due to a lack of understanding.

69879 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #461 of 1806 🔗

My e-mail has been forwarded to the director of the estate no less.

Whoooooo.

69905 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #462 of 1806 🔗

You should write this up as a download factsheet that Toby could make available for other businesses, I know with my family biz, my brother is terrified about having staff back off furlough as the measures are so crippling. I also know lots of food businesses are drowning under a load of regs I don’t think are enforceable.

69984 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BecJT, 5, #463 of 1806 🔗

Your brother and other business owners should start researching things, how to word risk assessments, what the law as opposed to guidelines are and so on.

Until you learn all this and can stand your ground and can argue coherently with any council nazi that comes around and show you know at least a much as they do about all this nonsense they are screwed.

I know a few small cafe/takeaway/pub owners who are being walked all over and complain about it when I go in for chat but will not listen when I try and tell them how to handle the council as they really believe the council is all powerful.

They are not. they may harass you for a while to try and browbeat you down but stand firm and you have a good chance of them backing down as long as you know your stuff.

Councils have no power under HSE legislation, onus is on the individual business to do whatever they deem correct as long as they document their reasonings. It’s then up to a judge to decide if it is adequate or not, not the inspector.

Council can use public health act as ordered by government but this involves magistrates and compensation which is why they don’t want to.

Few new articles on laworfiction about shops:

http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/time-to-blow-the-whistle-on-shops/
http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/do-employees-have-to-wear-masks/
http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/face-covering-litigation-threats-and-administrative-headache/

70432 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #464 of 1806 🔗

Licensing committee can be pretty nasty, I hear, AG.

69900 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, #465 of 1806 🔗

Your citing of that WHO survey is very timely, given how amnesia seems to be a major deficit associated in official circles with this disease. You could make a parlour game of listing how many actions and recommendations have been subsequently contradicted.

For instance :

  • That global quarantines are not recommended
  • That global quarantines are of short duration in order to simply keep the demand for health resources under control
  • That there is no general benefit shown to accrue from the wearing of masks
  • That closing borders is not recommended

…. etc. It’s quite a fun game when you’ve just heard the British Bullshit Company’s ‘News’ seizing on the latest morsels dropped by the always-later-proved-wrong Scary Fairy. Today’s egregious claims include between-country comparisons that are based on random numbers, and claims that that moveable feast called ‘excess deaths’ based on the ‘most reliable’ five-year moving average. (On the latter, a much longer term moving average demonstrates the very opposite of the claimed ‘reliability’)

69911 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to RickH, #466 of 1806 🔗

The official written recommendations from WHO haven’t really changed from what I can find out.

It’s still on their website last time I looked and not been amended but has just been conveniently forgotten by the MSM and experts a sit does not really follow the required narrative and agenda at the moment.

What seems to happen is that a spokesman says something, someone has a quiet word in their boss’s ear and the verbal advice is promptly squashed and rescinded – like the asymptomatic transmission farce last month.

None of this was actually in official WHO written documentation that I could find, only verbal in press conferences.

69869 Gerry Mandarin, 16, #467 of 1806 🔗

As I’ve posted on another site.

Boris has inadvertently killed the maximum possible number of people by avoiding taking the hard decisions required of a prime minister. Don’t let the hindsight brigade let him get away with it; this is exactly the kind of decision he was elected for.

69871 Bella Donna, 7, #468 of 1806 🔗

I can’t remember who it was who asked if the care home rules were government diktat if not. My brother in law was sent 9 pages of rules but has send us 2 of them. They are from a company called Quality Compliance Systems and relates to Adult Social care. Here are a few of their orders!

Temperature to be taken.
2 metre distancing
Masked at all times
By appointment only.
Do not travel on public transport before visiting
Sanitized hands
Same family member to visit each tine
No cbildren
Gifts are acceptable but only if they can be wiped or washed.
No hats
Keep eye contact and speak loudly

And this costs £40,000!!!

I think most of our elderly people will probably give up at this point.

69877 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 11, #469 of 1806 🔗

Anyone else getting pissed of with ‘Conspiracy Theorists’ being banded around everywhere? I think there is a huge difference between that and being sceptical, questioning everything and a free thinker.

Anyway, here are 25 ‘Conspiracies’ that turned out to be true for starters:

https://bestlifeonline.com/true-conspiracy-theories/

69883 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sarigan, 5, #470 of 1806 🔗

It’s an easy way to denigrate opposition without having to engage in meaningful discussion. And another means of ‘divide and conquer’.

(Or is what I’ve just said a conspiracy theory?)

69909 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #471 of 1806 🔗

People saying tinfoil hat/conspiracy theorist is just the same as racist being thrown out as a default response. It is just to shut down any debate, if you have no counter facts you insult!

69945 ▶▶▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to KBuchanan, 1, #472 of 1806 🔗

Libertarian is being used as an insult now as well.

69885 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Sarigan, 5, #473 of 1806 🔗

it is not being a conspiracy theorist to question a) efficacy b)practicality c) proportionality and d) sustainability of these myriad measures. It is applying critical faculties.

69887 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sarigan, 3, #474 of 1806 🔗

Been branded a conspiracy theory nut for over 10 years for many reasons, mostly asking why?, getting no logical answer so doing my own research.

EMFs and their detrimental effect on the human body is a great for for getting hounded about, more than 9/11, NWO, etc.

I know, after years of research found my wife suffers from ElectroMagnetic Hypersensitivity so took steps to mitigate the effects as much as we could – and yes, she does actually have a tinfoil (well silver weave) hat to wear and blanket to wrap in on particularly bad days.

Phrase first coined by the CIA as part of the Mockingbird Media programme if I remember correctly.

69938 ▶▶▶ Victoria, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #475 of 1806 🔗

Yes many people struggle with EMF’s, very sensitive to it

69942 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Sarigan, 2, #476 of 1806 🔗

There is a reason why it is being bandied about. The very same reason it was invented in the first place. Imagine the term was not in existence. How would everyday discussion be then? How could the propagana war be fought on such a broad front without such an all encompassing handle. The term also short cuts though in the people who use it.
Typical chat:
” You’re a cinspiracy theorist” said boldy.
Am i? Why, what do you mean?
“Well, er, I mean you bring up all of this stuff…” said without confidence.

69888 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 9, #477 of 1806 🔗

Full Fact UK have lost the plot, complain if you’ve got a second, this is a disgraceful bit of spin masquerading as a ‘fact check’ (they’ve done it with some other things as well). They are a charity, they solicit public funds, and even without claiming their entire purpose is to be impartial, they are required to be impartial!

https://fullfact.org/online/face-mask-protect-others/

From my PhD boffin friend: It’s well established now that wearing a mask outside a hospital setting doesn’t protect you from catching Covid. But people claim it protects *others* from catching it from you thus making it your civic duty to wear one. What’s the evidence to support that claim?

Full Fact UK have written this article claiming “The evidence does suggest that a mask is likely to benefit other people if you wear one” and link to the evidence. The evidence is a single scientific paper that *estimates* people might be most infectious before any symptoms. What they do not show is that mask wearing reduces the chances of them passing it on. There is no experimental evidence anywhere comparing mask wearing and no mask wearing in asymptomatic people.

So when people say ‘science says mask wearing protects others not you’ what that actually means is there’s proof masks don’t protect the wearer but no ones tested if it protects others. Not testing something is not stronger evidence than a test that disproves something. It just means we haven’t tested it!

Contact them here: https://fullfact.org/about/contact/

69924 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to BecJT, 8, #478 of 1806 🔗

That is the BIGGEST lie we’ve been subjected to. People with no symptoms are infectious.

70046 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Farinances, 7, #479 of 1806 🔗

Isn’t it just. There’s no market for a vaccine if asymptomatics aren’t infectious, I’m not an an anti vaxxer but also under no illusions about how much money is at stake now. Masks, I think, are to keep the fear going until the vaccine is ready, and I think vast lobbying pressure has been brought on the WHO for that reason to both retract their evidence that those with out symptoms don’t spread it, and on masks. .

69939 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to BecJT, 3, #480 of 1806 🔗

The majority of these Fact Check institutions are self-appointed and funded by big interest/pharma.

69963 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Victoria, 5, #481 of 1806 🔗

‘Fact Checker’ is Newspeak for Propaganda-monger.

70048 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Victoria, 1, #482 of 1806 🔗

I always quite admired them, but that was back in the naive days before I realised most people would prefer to grind a political axe than tell the truth (and there was me thinking some things were sacred).

70541 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Victoria, #483 of 1806 🔗

And subsidized by the taxpayers.

69944 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to BecJT, 4, #484 of 1806 🔗

The claim ‘is likely to benefit’ here is an outright lie.

As for the rest of it, it’s more honest, in that it basically sets out that: Masks might help you, masks might help others, evidence is inconclusive. But wear them anyway. It fails at any stage to point out that they also might cause problems, both mental and physical, in wearers and that there is every chance they achieve nothing even if you are infected, and that they definitely achieve nothing if you arent (which is 99.97% of people)

Which is essentially the government position: There’s a slim chances they might help reduce transmission (note: not stop transmission, nor stop infections, just help reduce), and to hell with all the social damage and potential physical side effects.

Edit: I’ve also contacted them to complain about their blatant spin, fat lot of good it will do anyway.

70043 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark II, 1, #485 of 1806 🔗

Thanks, I’ve contacted them too,the more of us that do, the better. i work in charities, I’ve looked at their accounts, they are only small, some poor idiot in the office is having to field our complaints and it will worry them.

69951 ▶▶ James007, replying to BecJT, 2, #486 of 1806 🔗

This is such a weaselly worded article, I had to read it a couple of times.
(Incidentally, I hate the phrases such as “some evidence to suggest…” because it is often possible to find SOME evidence to SUGGEST something, that doesn’t make it a reasonable conclusion.

Anyway, it says that there is limited evidence that wearing a mask prevents you from catching the virus. It also says that it could protect other people from catching it from you if you are infectious, so you should wear one anyway. It doesn’t seem to explain this second claim. There doesn’t seem to be a citation to this effect..

70011 ▶▶ ted, replying to BecJT, 1, #487 of 1806 🔗

One of my favorite things about the birth of the blade runner world we now inhabit is the idea that we can turn to “fact checkers” (e.g., the fact check department) in order to assess a claim rather than our own abilities to use reason to assess the logic and evidence in the argument, if there even is an argument, that supports that claim. Actually, come to think of it it’s not blade runner, but Terry Giliam’s Brazil that is more on point.

69890 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 24, #488 of 1806 🔗

MiriamW v the Coop, Round 3

On 30/07/2020 10:37, Talk to us wrote

‘Thank you for your reply.

I can assure you that all our colleagues have received very clear communication around the implementation of the policy both face to face and via our online communication portal and to date we have not received any customer complaints around their application. We continue to monitor this on a daily basis and will react subject to any feedback we receive.

We continue to review our customer messaging both in store and online and your feedback has been taken on board and will be discussed at our next update.

I would like to thank you for your engagement and feedback’

And my reply:

Dear Customer Care Team,

Thank you for this. Unfortunately, ‘Nobody else has complained’ is the oldest trick in the book to fob off awkward customers and I am disappointed to see the Coop resorting to it. It does nothing to invalidate my complaint about the Coop’s failure to reassure mask-exempt customers, particularly in the signage displayed in store entrances.

I can assure you that, albeit based on a smallish sample, I am certainly not the only person who uses the Coop who does not like the way that you are interpreting the Government mandate on masks.  Just because people do not contact you does not mean that they are happy with this. Many elderly people are not online and do not know how to contact Customer Care. Many do not wish to ‘put their head over the parapet’. I have now met several people who are only wearing face masks because they are scared of a fine or being challenged and, since they are not aware of exemptions, are trying to wear them to the potentially serious detriment of their own health. The Coop’s failure to highlight that exemptions both apply and will be respected is disappointing, given your stated ethics, and it actually risks breaking the law.

It is good to see that you are ‘continuing to review customer messaging’. Maybe the Coop would like to prioritise your stores in the High Peak for this as the prominent signs in store entrance windows do not mention exemptions, they just tell customers that ‘face-coverings’ are mandatory.

You must be aware that many people are very easily intimidated by draconian instructions, especially in the climate of fear which currently pervades this country. This old lady is not frightened, so I am speaking for many others when I ask, as a member, the Coop to do everything in your power to minimise the current dystopian experience shopping has become. You can easily do this without infringing any of the new laws.

Honesty is in short supply at the moment. I would expect the Coop to take the the lead in restoring it!

Best wishes

69923 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #489 of 1806 🔗

May I suggest that anyone who can or has the time, contact Coop Customer Care and urge them to make their exemption policy clear at store entrances. Many of their customers are elderly and, it’s clear to me, they have no idea that exemptions apply. The Coop is not in a hurry to tell them. I really have seen people struggling to wear masks and others on here have reported the same.

70057 ▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 5, #490 of 1806 🔗

Excellent. Your eloquence is admirable.

70095 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 1, #491 of 1806 🔗

Thank you very much, Annie. I consider that praise indeed!! 🙂

70247 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #492 of 1806 🔗

Well said. Have not been to my local Co-op and will let you know how I get on.

69892 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #493 of 1806 🔗

For the person mentioning care homes and visiting earlier:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/visiting-care-homes-during-coronavirus/update-on-policies-for-visiting-arrangements-in-care-homes

It is listed as “guidance” so has no force of law.

Care Homes responsible for doing their own risk assessment to determine what restrictions to put in place etc:

As set out in section 1 , decisions on visiting policies require a risk assessment.

It mentions these guys a few times but as we all know “advice” has no legal standing so the only important document is the acre homes own risk assessment based on their own research and which you can challenge if you have evidence to prove them wrong:

“The Care Provider Alliance protocol for the sector has more advice on different types of visits”

“Providers may apply different rules for different residents or categories of resident, if they think it appropriate, based on an assessment of risk of contracting COVID-19 in relation to such residents. “

This then starts to come under COSHH as well as Safety at work which has good explanation on Hector Drummond:

https://hectordrummond.com/2020/07/03/sam-case-hit-them-with-a-coshh/

Hope that helps.

69893 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #494 of 1806 🔗

Forgot to include these lines:

“The factors relevant to decisions about particular individuals or groups of residents include the following, in addition to those factors above relating to a care home’s general visiting policy:

  • the benefits to a person’s wellbeing by having a particular visitor or visitors
  • the extent of the harm that will be experienced by the resident from a lack of visitation or whether the individual is at the end of their life”

So Government saying patient quality of life due to visitors should be the priority.

69899 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #495 of 1806 🔗

My first thought on reading that was that poor 90 year old lady who was berated for turning up at the hospice trying to see her dying daughter. I’ve been shedding a tear about that for days.

69902 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to BecJT, 5, #496 of 1806 🔗

Hospice should be charged for failing in their duty of care citing the Government’s “guidelines”.

They keep telling us to follow guidelines, be awkward, use that against them and hoist them on their own petard as the saying goes.

Always better when you beat them using their own rules.

69929 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to BecJT, 5, #497 of 1806 🔗

I’ve been thinking about how to collect all these stories about deprivations and cruelty. People can’t take these things forward on their own, I felt so angry about the 90 year old and her daughter, grief and age and isolation likely means people can’t take these injustices forward. Do we think there might be some grounds for a collective action?

69966 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to wendy, 1, #498 of 1806 🔗

I think that Dr Pam Popper is planning on doing that stateside (check out her youtube updates). Yes, collective action is the way forward. I’ll certainly volunteer to help compile such stories.

69969 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to wendy, 2, #499 of 1806 🔗

Simon Dolan is collecting stories from within the NHS by whistleblowers, but care homes are another thing aren’t they.

70056 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Awkward Git, #500 of 1806 🔗

Whaaaaaat?! With helpless old people being isolated, bullied, neglected and effectively murdered, day by day?

69912 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Awkward Git, 9, #501 of 1806 🔗

The guidelines are a push in the right direction as my feeling is about the care home my dad lives in that they want to hide behind government guidelines to protect themselves. In these 5 months my family has had one written update by email when shielding guidelines were first reduced down back in June. I persuaded this care home to allow us to speak to dad via locked double glazed doors and to do this bought him a simple mobile phone.

I am just back from today’s visit. A drive of 85 miles round trip to be allowed to speak to and see him through windows for 30 minutes. I used to spend a whole day with him, helping with personal grooming, food and drink, chatting and encouraging and taking him for a wheel out in his chair.

Unless there is some large shift or challenge I believe this will be all I am allowed until next spring if he lives that long.

69913 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to wendy, 7, #502 of 1806 🔗

See if laworfiction can do you a quick guide on how to pressure the care home into more visits using the guidance above about quality of life, effects of no visitor etc.

Put the boot in and push back, keeps me sane and amused at the moment.

69920 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #503 of 1806 🔗

Thank you I will try.

The guidance gives the get out clause that if the local authority and the home don’t assess the local situation as safe they do not have to allow visiting. My take on this is that it depends how the staff at the local authority view the virus. If they are virus must be eliminated types they they will never view it as safe.

69973 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to wendy, 2, #504 of 1806 🔗

I’ve argued and won against the councils around here over the past few months.

You can beat them with facts and knowing the legislation etc.

Some of the details are in previous posts over the weeks plus some is in the post earlier today.

Best thing to do is put in FOI requests for which legislation they are using and so on.

69978 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #505 of 1806 🔗

Thank you. This is the kindness of the people on this site that has helped.

69918 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to wendy, 5, #506 of 1806 🔗

The homes are often run like little fiefdoms and you will likely be stopped at the front door. I have suggested before and will again – raise a s21a challenge (if the person lacks capacity). Use your local IMCA service if this is difficult to do on your own. If your elderly relative has capacity and is being prevented from seeing relatives – call the police.

69926 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #507 of 1806 🔗

Thank you, it’s good information. Dad has dementia but can hold a conversation about his needs. He isn’t subject to a DOLs order and we have both types of power of attorney. My feeling is it will depend on the individual owners. To date they have had no issue with accepting treats from us so haven’t been taken in about the ridiculous need to sanitise things touched. You’ve given me good ideas about how to take things further if necessary.

69953 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to wendy, 3, #508 of 1806 🔗

If he is not subject to a DoLS then he is free to leave at will – POA only kicks in when he lacks capacity. I’d be calling the police in this scenario.

You obviously have to carefully weigh up the pros and cons of taking the nuclear option.

69965 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #509 of 1806 🔗

Yes this is the thing we could remove him but would it be best for him? He has many care needs and we are a small family. To care for him I would have to leave my home 40 miles away and get a place suitable for him. I want to support him in what may be his last year of life but moving him perhaps is to meet my need to not feel so guilty.

70040 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to wendy, #510 of 1806 🔗

Ask him what he wants.

He may prefer to rough ti with you than be a prisoner.

70116 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to wendy, 1, #511 of 1806 🔗

Ultimately you are only after a proper visit. If staff can come and go (and provide close personal care) then how can it be any more dangerous for you to do it minus the care? I know it is difficult but stick to your guns.

69989 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to wendy, 3, #512 of 1806 🔗

Wendy,

I do feel for you, and others like you, with relatives in care homes. I know from my own experience how hard it is even for short periods in normal times – what it must be like for you now I find hard to imagine, especially with you having spent so much time with your Dad.

I’m in awe of your patience, because I don’t think I could manage it.

One of the many things we sceptics were accused of this at the start of it all was not caring for the elderly. The sheer ignorance and hypocrisy of most of our critics leaves me stunned. But I’m getting angry as I write, so I’d better stop.

Suffice to say that if one of my relatives had been in a care home I reckon I’d be in jail by now.

I just don’t understand how as a society we can have done this.

69908 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 7, #513 of 1806 🔗

BBC R4 Today reports ‘Lloyds Bank issues 1/4 profits warning £3Billion loss from unpaid loans as furlough ends’ (assumes £10B for the year).

Meanwhile on Sky
‘johnson promises major public sector recruitment drive’.

How does that work ?

69919 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to karenovirus, 6, #514 of 1806 🔗

Lol

Job creation scheme = fake jobs that shouldn’t exist and we can’t afford anyway

69925 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to karenovirus, 5, #515 of 1806 🔗

Easy government spending comes from the genetically modified magik money tree.

69935 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to karenovirus, 2, #516 of 1806 🔗

to do what? Nice if you can get these jobs, pension excellent!

70368 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, 1, #517 of 1806 🔗

With no viable industries left, they’ll struggle pay those pensions!

69922 Dave #KBF, 5, #518 of 1806 🔗

Just having a quick listen to talkRADIO, Ian Collins.

He is speaking to Sam Williams Director at Economic Insight.

First comment from Sam “we went into lockdown after the peak”. maybe an interesting listen.

69927 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 13, #519 of 1806 🔗

UK Excess Deaths worst in Europe news story released today. That is a demonstration of what happen when you protect the NHS by not providing normal services.

69934 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Polemon2, 10, #520 of 1806 🔗

As a past NHS employee and with many friends who are still employed, I and them are so angry at this stupid slogan of protecting the NHS. It exists because all of us in society have agreed to provide health care via it. It is for our protection. What kind of a life of its own is it beginning to take on? It needs to be dismantled.

69961 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to wendy, 2, #521 of 1806 🔗

Certainly needs a thorough review. It’s the management practices I have most problem with, rather than the clinical care.

69975 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Nick Rose, #522 of 1806 🔗

Yes indeed

70364 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, #523 of 1806 🔗

“Revamp” in the pipeline.
Suspect it will involve lots of AI triage, minimal face-to-face consultations with qualified medics, tick-box targets so they can show they’re doing a fantastic job, etc.

Boris Johnson is reportedly planning a radical reorganisation of the NHS in the wake of coronavirus.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/07/10/pm-planning-radical-revamp-nhs/

A source is quoted as saying Health secretary Matt Hancock is “frustrated” by how limited his powers are and “wants to get some of that back”.

69943 ▶▶ Andrew Fish, replying to Polemon2, 3, #524 of 1806 🔗

Is it possible that the number of excess deaths will actually go down as the year goes on? We’re now beneath the five year average on a daily basis, so depending on how they decide a death is actually “in excess” it’s possible that, because some of these deaths might have happened this year anyway, the number will fall as the year wears on.

69972 ▶▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to Andrew Fish, #525 of 1806 🔗

The term excess deaths, in this context, means above the five yearly average for the corresponding week.

69928 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 9, #526 of 1806 🔗

Just a thought – having spent so much effort warning of a second wave, are news stories and statistics being manipulated to provide the “evidence” that it is real? After all, the “experts” can’t be wrong, can they?

69932 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Polemon2, 5, #527 of 1806 🔗

We need Carl Henegan to look into all this or they will spin it to sow a second wave and the loss, separation and isolation being experienced by many will go on and on.

69956 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Polemon2, 6, #528 of 1806 🔗

Yes, of course they are being manipulated. Once the death toll shrank to small numbers they started talking about “cases”, and once “cases” also shrank they simply did more testing and, in Spain at least, including antibody tests with new “cases”. “Cases” at one stage were mainly people who were ill enough to be in hospital, now they are mainly young and healthy, or people already in hospital for other things.

69930 Steve Hayes, replying to Steve Hayes, 11, #529 of 1806 🔗

room-cleaning regime at our B&B involved multiple rounds of antibacterial fumigation!

Why do people who are afraid of a virus use antibacterials?

69936 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #530 of 1806 🔗

exactly

69937 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Steve Hayes, 6, #531 of 1806 🔗

They don’t know the difference between a virus and a bacteria!

70002 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendy, 3, #532 of 1806 🔗

Sky new expert just claiming the virus has tge ‘abillity’ to mutate and kill other groups. So young are now to be scared. Next breath same exoert is saying school need to be reopened. The expert was a headcase himself sitting in his rich living room on skynews.

It’s no wonder no one really know what is a germ and what is a lurgy.

70108 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 3, #533 of 1806 🔗

It’s a highly intelligent virus, for something that isn’t even alive, technically speaking.

70051 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to wendy, #534 of 1806 🔗

I think the schmoo you use to destroy them is the same. Bleach is the best although you don’t want it on your hands so people use that alcohol stuff.

70071 ▶▶ Wesley, replying to Steve Hayes, 3, #535 of 1806 🔗

Ordinary soap is absolutely sufficient.

70081 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Steve Hayes, 2, #536 of 1806 🔗

Because if the virus doesn’t get you then bacteria will. Fungal infections are feeling left out!

69933 Victoria, 8, #537 of 1806 🔗

My trips earlier today without a mask:
Morrisons: door guard there, strolled in, pleasant experience, 3 other people without masks, at exit encountered a masked female that stopped dead infront of me, went past her, she then had an issue as she was only socially distancing from the person that entered at the other side about 4 meters from her, told her if she believes the mask protects her that she should then be fine without having to social distance to such an extent.
QD Stores: No one at door, pleasant, 2 others without masks
Garage paying for fuel: breezed in, one other without a mask

69946 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 17, #538 of 1806 🔗

I’ve posted on this site a few times and been reading it daily since the farce started. Thank you Toby for a dose of sanity amid the madness.
I try and avoid most of the crazy news on the BBC and the general media loving the panic. After 3 years believing the media was biased and a waste of time during Brexit (where did that go, not mentioned much these days!), where I stopped my daily paper as the Mail were so far from giving a balanced view. I am now looking for how else I can not spend my money to feed the craziness. Only small measures but the weekly wine spend at Tesco is now online as is the dog food and any other items I can buy in bulk and not give the supermarkets my money, trying to use small online companies instead. Is it their fault, no its the Governments, but until the big retailers start kicking back and help stop the mask stupidity as much of my money that isn’t spent with them the better. Maybe at some stage they will tell the Government that enough is enough?
I feel really sorry for the small retailers being driven into the ground. I feel sorry for the supermarket staff who went mask free for months (my daughter and fiancee) and now forced to wear a mask for a 7.5 hour shift. This isn’t their fault.
If we have ever had a more useless Government I haven’t come across them. Voted for Boris, I wish I hadn’t voted at all and never will again. They are either corrupt or plain stupid. My best guess is they are lightweight and incompetent as well as stupid and scared to death of social media.
It seems to me that it doesn’t matter how many graphs show we need to return to normal, what the ONS stats show, nothing makes any difference. When 550K people die every year in England and Wales, to see a trend below average for 5 weeks and implement even more measures is beyond idiocy. But what can anyone do? Sit at home and panic and pretend nobody ever dies, yes that’s best. Clap the NHS for being empty in most hospitals for months on end. Don’t see a doctor, make an appointment for A&E. Stay at home washing your hands and you’ll live (but not really, you will just exist) to be 100 !

69954 ▶▶ Julian, replying to John Ballard, 12, #539 of 1806 🔗

It has become a cult, a belief, a religion, the idea is stuck in people’s heads now and it will be hard to get rid of it. If the PM went on TV tonight and said it had all been a mistake, millions would not believe him and would say it was a Tory conspiracy. Sadly that won’t happen and instead they double down on the lies.

The PM was initially lightweight and incompetent but I believe they now know very well it’s nonsense and are covering their arses, at the expense of the nation. I have to say it looks evil to me – there’s no other word for it.

Possibly the best we can hope for is that people will become bored of it and gradually the nonsense measures can be stripped back, but I can’t see there being a dawning of the truth for many many years.

70022 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Julian, 6, #540 of 1806 🔗

Just had 2 men at home (oo er) to do a gas safety check. Both unmasked, it was wonderful, they did say they are instructed to wear a mask if the householder insists. Told them none of that bollocks here. I even shared a pen.

Senior chappy is originally from Denmark, full sceptic and we were both having a laugh at the absurdity of it and both agreed if Boris would only admit to getting it wrong everyone would go back to normal overnight, they have both been working throughout and didn’t know anyone who has it or has had it.

He lives by Edinburgh airport and said immediately after the airlines started running clouds come back and weather has been crap, all part of the conspiracy 😉

70052 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Julian, 2, #541 of 1806 🔗

Yes, and we know that cult followers can readily be brainwashed into actually dying for the cult, so coercing them into a living death is easy peasy.

70355 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, #542 of 1806 🔗

One day the current ‘laws’ and regulations will be included in those lists of legal stupidity alongside
“It’s illegal to marry a cow in Wyoming on a Wednesday.”

70507 ▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to karenovirus, #543 of 1806 🔗

Damn,that’s my weekend ruined.

69955 ▶▶ PowerCorrupts, replying to John Ballard, 2, #544 of 1806 🔗

Petitions need promotion:
Reverse the decision to implement complulsory face coverings in English Shops:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/331430

 Gavin Williamson MP: Do not make masks mandatory for children in primary or secondary schools in UK.” and wanted to see if you could help by adding your name.

Read more and sign the petition here:

http://chng.it/XDcK9QwkyP

70080 ▶▶▶ John Ballard, replying to PowerCorrupts, #545 of 1806 🔗

Thanks done the petition now

69947 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 15, #546 of 1806 🔗

Morrisons, High Peak, yesterday afternoon. Still a queue in operation, but less of a maze of barricades to get in. We were greeted by an obviously uncomfortable staff member on the door, masked up, asking everyone not wearing a mask to muzzle-up.

The woman in front of us was already struggling and told us she couldn’t breathe and felt sick. The man in front of her barked ‘exempt’ at the staff member, we just told her we were exempt. No problem. Two more men in the queue told her they didn’t wear masks. The first man told the struggling woman to download an exemption card and lose the mask and we showed her our cards. None of us wore lanyards or presented cards to the staff member.. Everyone else in the store (not very many in at 4pm) was muzzled but they didn’t give us any grief or even stares. So – 5 of us unmuzzled at once and when we got out the ‘door-Karen’ ripped off her mask, gave us a big grin and said ‘thank God I can go home now!’

While shopping, we met 2 friends, mother and daughter with small boy of 4. The women were wearing horrible black masks. The boy, who normally doesn’t engage much, stared at us, fascinated throughout the whole conversation. OH and I were imagining how they might explain the situation to him. ‘You see, Granny and I are healthy so we have to wear masks to stop us making other people poorly. M and A are poorly so they don’t have to wear a mask because it would make them more poorly.’

What are the odds that he will make any sense of that and, why, as a healthy 4-year-old he doesn’t have to wear a mask too. Ah but when he goes to school in September. . . . . (God forbid!)

Before this cluster-f**k of a psyop, would most people have meekly accepted the muzzle rule at this stage and, at the same time, been quite happy to accept that somehow a piece of card is a magic talisman against the terrible virus which still stalks the land?

70044 ▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 9, #547 of 1806 🔗

‘For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face.’
‘Mummy, what’s a face?’

69948 Mike Smith, 4, #548 of 1806 🔗

Greenhalgh: Covid-19 is spread mainly by droplets. Droplets are what come out of the mouth and nose (like a wet cough or a sneeze). After a few inches, the droplets evaporate and become tiny airborne particles. So the most efficient way of stopping Covid-19 is to stop the droplets on their way out rather than try to stop the airborne particles on their way in.

Or use a handkerchief. Or stay at home if you are coughing or sneezing.

69949 Allan Gay, replying to Allan Gay, 3, #549 of 1806 🔗

This morning I saw an approaching bus, the first I have seen in weeks.
The masked passengers were like clumps of faceless dummies.
What a ridiculous sight.

70349 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Allan Gay, #550 of 1806 🔗

Sad!

69950 bluefreddy, replying to bluefreddy, 24, #551 of 1806 🔗

It’s nearly a week since maskageddon, and I have been going about my business in London without a mask in shops and on the underground without any problem whatsoever. The Tube is still almost empty, even at rush hour.

Just back from a wonderful trip to my first art exhibition since lockdown. The blurb said face coverings, I didn’t, no-one cared. On my way home I stopped off at Tescos. The staff were super friendly to me. I entered the shop at the same time as two police people, who just looked the other way.

My own shop is a bit miserable – the vast majority come in in masks. If they start to fiddle with them I say “please don’t wear that on my account”, and often they take them off with relief – though some look confused and keep them on. To the former I say “how lovely to see you!” and, indeed it is.

69960 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to bluefreddy, 15, #552 of 1806 🔗

Thanks for this heartening report. It’s the shop staff I feel most sorry for now. If this had anything whatsoever to do with protecting them, why wasn’t it brought in in March? Instead their life is a living hell, masked up for several hours and serving a procession of faceless zombies. I predict many more psychological problems in the pipeline. No wonder us un-muzzled ones get smiles!

BTW, just remembered, we had the washing-machine-man out yesterday who showed up in a muzzle. My husband asked him to take it off – and he did!

69970 ▶▶▶ ambwozere, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 13, #553 of 1806 🔗

We had a man in to service the gas boiler and he asked if he needed to wear a mask. Mum just said no that’s fine. He was quite happy not to and had a good 10 min chat as normal (as in no keeping his distance) about our puppy and his new puppy before he left.

It must be a welcome relief for these trades people to be told its fine not to wear a mask.

70023 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to ambwozere, #554 of 1806 🔗

Same thing just happened to me, see post further down.

69974 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to bluefreddy, 10, #555 of 1806 🔗

Yesterday a young man from the electricity company called round to check that I wasn’t paying too much for my electricity bill. Which was nice of him. He was wearing a mask. When he got in the door I said I would prefer if he removed it. He started to mumble about the rules and then he probably realised how silly he sounded or else maybe he put himself in the customer’s shoes – who wants a masked man in their house? Anyway he pulled the mask down and I said I wouldn’t tell anybody. Imagine having to go from door to door in this heat with a paper mask on your face. He put it on again when he left.

70324 ▶▶▶ steve, replying to Jane in France, 1, #556 of 1806 🔗

“ young man from the electricity company called round to check that I wasn’t paying too much for my electricity bill.”

Really! Do you still have your wallet or TV!

70103 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to bluefreddy, 1, #557 of 1806 🔗

Your customers will remember this, and come back! Well done!

70266 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to bluefreddy, 2, #558 of 1806 🔗

Well done. I also do the same in the museum I work for, I always smile and tell visitors that they don’t need the muzzle. They always look relieved as soon as I say those magic words and happy as soon as they remove the muzzle.

69958 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #559 of 1806 🔗

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.28.20163154v1.full.pdf
This from the Brighton group just published
 “We show that substantial susceptibility reductions are measurable in the metropolitan regions, which all continued in a phase of exponential growth of case numbers for a relatively longer time before public health interventions were introduced. Compared to these interventions, the reduction in metropolitan region susceptibility had a substantial role in the post-growth decline in infection rates. Reduced population susceptibility has far reaching consequences on future policy responses and disease forecasts including vaccine trial planning and, in the case of a second epidemic wave, higher population-normalised mortality rates for non-metropolitan regions.

69983 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to swedenborg, 2, #560 of 1806 🔗

It should have far reaching consequences, but I am not sure that it will? Much of the world seems dedicated to the idea that Covid armageddon is just around the corner and refuses to consider any alternative views.
P.S. has this reply been posted on the site? I seem to keep getting awaiting approval tags!

70042 ▶▶ annie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #561 of 1806 🔗

Could you teach them a few monosyllables?

70259 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to annie, 1, #562 of 1806 🔗

“It’s over. Never mind. It’ll be fine”.

This is my translation of “reduced population susceptibility has far reaching consequences for future policy responses”.

They fit a model to the data and reckon that Covid is dying out more because of herd immunity than because of interventions, especially in cities because they usually got it first. Sounds plausible.

70091 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to swedenborg, 1, #563 of 1806 🔗

So are they on our side, Swedenborg, or batting for the enemy?

70506 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #564 of 1806 🔗

I think guy153 have done a perfect summary.The authors are very discrete in their conclusions but even without any models it seems common sense that it spreads more rapidly in metropolitan areas.

69959 Basics, replying to Basics, 6, #565 of 1806 🔗

And so the eye of Soron turns to Africa… with the tidal wave of BS from the WHO and western health organisation agencies. There has been little testing therefore it follows that there is an disaster on global proportons just that we are not seeing the data.

Fucking bent bint from Geneva International Rescue Comittee stating clearly that we have no idea yet we have a massive deadly emergency on sky news now.

The globalists need Africa bringing into the narrative at this point in project fear.

70089 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 5, #566 of 1806 🔗

“The globalists need Africa bringing into the narrative at this point in project fear.”

Don’t they ever? South America was such a disappointment for them. No dead bodies littering the streets. They’ve had a succession of bad calls…

69967 Julian, replying to Julian, 8, #567 of 1806 🔗

Rare mention of Sweden in mainstream media – might be worth getting some positive comments in: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8571789/Lockdown-free-Sweden-seeing-positive-downward-trend.html

69980 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, 4, #568 of 1806 🔗

Sweden rarely gets a mention now as it’s hard to to write a bad news story about them.

The only argument people have now is “Sweden had more deaths than her neighbours”.

70012 ▶▶▶ jrsm, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #569 of 1806 🔗

The last mention of Sweden in Portuguese media was somewhere in May/June: there was a week when they allegedly had the highest death rate per capita of all Western European countries. They never talked about it again, which must be a good sign.

70065 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #570 of 1806 🔗

“Sweden had more deaths than her neighbours”

.. which simplicity rather gets banged on the head by the facts :

http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/nordic_comparison_4jul.html

69982 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Julian, 3, #571 of 1806 🔗

Well done to Sweden. Keep it up.

69968 Cecil B, #572 of 1806 🔗

This is just being strung out to get past the summer rioting season

69976 Basics, replying to Basics, 4, #573 of 1806 🔗

Ever wondered what an NHS employee might be feeling and thinking about all of this? Here is an extraordinary blog that I know one NHS employee is reading and sharing. It was shared with me this morning.

A huge amount of reading and research for LSers to assess.

https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com/2020/06/16/against-the-corona-panic-part-xiv-total-mortality-data-in-europe-now-confirms-the-wuhan-coronavirus-was-comparable-in-magnitude-to-flu-waves-of-the-2010s-the-panic-and-lockdowns-are-fully-discredit/

“Much work in the field of Corona-Panic Studies remains to be done. Some of it is technical/quantitative and some of it psycho-sociological (how/why did the Panic Pandemic begin and why were we unable to contain it?) and political.

The pro-Panic side still has sway over much of the public mind. I remain an optimist that, at least for many people, the facts can penetrate the fog.

The anti-Panic side has long recognized Total Mortality, the sum of all-cause deaths for a given place and time, as a dataset that can slices through the Corona-Panic fog.

This post is a large-scale overview of total mortality in European countries from 2015 tthrough May 2020.”

70061 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 4, #574 of 1806 🔗

The anti-Panic side has long recognized Total Mortality, the sum of all-cause deaths for a given place and time, as a dataset that can slices through the Corona-Panic fog.”

Absolutely – which is why meaningless chatter about ‘excess deaths’ is always being used, instead of ‘All-Cause Mortality’ over a significantly long enough period.

You may find this analysis over more than 25 years gives a better objective grasp of the actual ‘seriousness’ of this infection than the latest Beeb Scary Fairy stuff. It’s an analysis by someone who has lived through rather more epidemic spikes over 70+ years (and has copped a serious load from a couple) than most knicker wetters and nappy wearers :

https://hectordrummond.com/2020/07/10/rick-hayward-winter-spring-mortality-all-cause-1993-94-2019-2020-in-relation-to-covid-19/

70101 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 1, #575 of 1806 🔗

Hope this has reached Simon Dolan..

70264 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #576 of 1806 🔗

Sent onwards now.

69981 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 19, #577 of 1806 🔗

Headline in DM

Ban most foreign holidays says SAGE group as it repeats its call for Britain to try to eliminate coronavirus – but what would be the economic cost?

These so-called scientists and other professionals are clueless. You cannot eliminate a virus, it will be with us forever. We need tolerant to live with it.

They talk about coronavirus and not Covid-19 (changed the narrative). We have been living with corona viruses for a long time.

69985 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Victoria, 11, #578 of 1806 🔗

Its getting to a point where all this talk of elimination makes me wonder if experts and politicians should not be the ones to be eliminated.

Just the DM talk is enough to panic-kill the industry. All on message with the removal of our right to travel. Less conspiratorial sounding by the hour.

69993 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Basics, 6, #579 of 1806 🔗

Yes i agree it’s heading that way that all but the so called “elites” will be able to travel. I read today that diplomatic persons are exempt from quarantine – why is that? One rule for them and another for the little people – how patronising and sickening!

70037 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sue, 1, #580 of 1806 🔗

All part of Agenda 21/2030.

69986 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to Victoria, #581 of 1806 🔗

Sorry, Typo
We need to learn to live with it.’

69988 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Victoria, 1, #582 of 1806 🔗

I had a look at the article and it is from the Independent Sage.

70005 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to wendy, 3, #583 of 1806 🔗

Watch the weekly Independent SAGE group YT videos.

Independent of who would be my question.

70010 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to wendy, 8, #584 of 1806 🔗

Those twats would probably like to put ten million healthy people on funeral pyres to eradicate the disease.

70025 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Will, #585 of 1806 🔗

Have a look at this question from a member of the public to Independent SAGE, last Friday.

I have put a starting time onto the video so that it starts just as the question is being asked.

Prof. Susan Michie seems to be taking delight in the control aspect.

https://youtu.be/bmXBiALoIxg?t=1304

70330 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, #586 of 1806 🔗

Michie takes the mickey.
Bunch of wazzocks, the lot of them.

70047 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Will, 3, #587 of 1806 🔗

Burn them in wicker baskets as Druids invoke the god Covid.

70111 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to wendy, 1, #588 of 1806 🔗

I was really encouraged back when I first heard about the independent SAGE being formed, but they’ve turned out to be more draconian and politically-motivated their official equivalent (which is saying something)

70146 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Drawde927, #589 of 1806 🔗

Prof Mitchie the communist is a member of both.

70331 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #590 of 1806 🔗

Behavioural scientist. Nuff said.

69991 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Victoria, 3, #591 of 1806 🔗

It’s the equivalent of saying “look I eradicated the virus from my house so therefore it’s possible to eradicate it from the world”.

70053 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Victoria, 4, #592 of 1806 🔗

Eliminating wilfully the sub-species of thick and useless epidemiologist modellers from seeking the limelight might be more appropriate and useful.

70055 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 5, #593 of 1806 🔗

Thick, useless and I think wilfully evil because they are using this to further their own careers or agendas – I simply don’t buy them all believing the madness they come out with

70099 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 3, #594 of 1806 🔗

The change from Covid19 to ‘coronavirus’ (allowing wider application of criteria) has not gone unnoticed – do they think we’re stupid?

70333 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #595 of 1806 🔗

Would link with the big flu jab push that’s next on the agenda.

69987 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 2, #596 of 1806 🔗

News from US.

Uber participates in contract tracing and will turn your data over to health authorities
https://www.naturalhealth365.com/uber-private-data-3497.html

70098 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 3, #597 of 1806 🔗

No more über-travel then!

70809 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, #598 of 1806 🔗

That started with “no mask, no ride”.

My reaction was “sounds like a deal”.

69990 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 7, #599 of 1806 🔗

12 hours ago Chris Hume on this site asked how things were in Ireland.

It is four hours ago I responded by saying:-

I’ll be braving a shopping trip to Dingle this morn – but venturing only into small shops which are limited to one or two customers at a time, while the friend I’m staying with shops at Lidl wearing a mask – a bit of a cop out I admit.

Here is my report.

The streets of Dingle look very normal. Few people wearing masks outdoors – circa 10%. but once in shops they seem to don them. And no discernible social distancing. In cafés people are sat down maskless (which of course you have to be if you are going to eat.)

I ventured maskless in to five small shops. I had no problem in four of them. In two I was engaged in conversation as they know me.

In one, however, I was refused service. The proprietor, who knows me by name was sat behind a plastic shield and fully masked. A masked customer left as I approached the counter leaving me the only customer in the shop.

I was refused service. It’s the law you must wear a mask.

It would have been so easy for her to take the two items I had in my hand and the money I had ready. I’d have been gone in less than a minute. She’s lost trade and caused unpleasantness so what has she gained?

A sense she has done her bit to save the health of the country?

Was she doing it to secure her own health?

Or was she just obeying the law as she saw it?

I did say, though it might be the law I should wear a mask in a shop it wasn’t her role to enforce it.

It gives me some comfort to be able to report the proprietor is English (agus gan aon focal Gaeilge aici freisin!).

70008 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #600 of 1806 🔗

It gives me some comfort to be able to report the proprietor is English

Mildly embarrassing.

70036 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 9, #601 of 1806 🔗

She’s a bullying bitch.
And she’s cutting iff her ugly invisible nose to spite her even uglier face.
Please bury her your end, we don’t want her back here.

70110 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to annie, #602 of 1806 🔗

I like it Annie !,no holding back,we need someone with your spirit to save us from the madness !.

70243 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #603 of 1806 🔗

“It’s the law you must wear a mask.”

It is not. It is guidance with the Government having threatened to make it law if people don’t wear masks “voluntarily”.

I genuinely didn’t think I’d see the day where they were complying (albeit with a non existent law) in Kerry whilst in Dublin, I have not been required to wear a mask.

69992 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 11, #604 of 1806 🔗

That was fast. Not sure of the source so may have to wait for other sources to confirm if this is accurate:

Trump White House Implements Executive Order on Online Censorship: Prevents Tech Giants from Altering Users’ Free Speech – Demands Transparency of Moderation Practices
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/huge-trump-white-house-implements-executive-order-online-censorship-prevents-tech-giants-altering-users-free-speech-demands-transparency-moderation-practices/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons

69997 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #605 of 1806 🔗

Merely the first shots in the real fight for freedom of speech and tolerance of dissent. Genuine advocates of these things have been retreating continuously for decades. Hopefully an actual fight back starts now.

70019 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Nobody2020, #606 of 1806 🔗

GP are normally fast and on the ball. Hard hitting but on the ball.

70035 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #607 of 1806 🔗

Trump signed an executive order months ago making Facebook, twitter etc subject to being publishers if they censor comments and then full force of publishing laws, 1st amendment etc can apply.

70073 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #608 of 1806 🔗

But the President’s powers in this regard are limited, unless he can make his agencies actually follow up, and then he still has to get his actions past the activist judiciary in the US – no easy task as we’ve seen elsewhere. This news today is a partial enactment of one of the threats contained in the executive order you mentioned, two months later.

70086 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, #609 of 1806 🔗

activist judiciary in the US ” Yes, despite all the hoo-ha about Trump’s SCOTUS picks, they’ve not given him much help. Clarence Thomas seems like the only true conservative on that court, since Scalia sadly departed.

70050 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #610 of 1806 🔗

That’s long overdue. People moving from Twitter to Parler and Gab.

70067 ▶▶ Wesley, replying to Nobody2020, #611 of 1806 🔗

It’s been in the works for ages. Anti-trust hearings before Congress have been taking place for months.

69995 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 8, #612 of 1806 🔗

Five months into this pandemic and it feels like being in a pressure cooker of vested interests. I’m left wondering what’s going to blow the lid off first?

Will it be Bill Gates with his single-minded mission to vaccinate 7 billion healthy people against covid? Will it be the tightening of the censorship noose on anyone – even frontline doctors – who depart from the WHO party line on covid? Will it be another lockdown and all the pain that entails for citizens? Will it be the imposition of more travel bans which threaten the reprieve promised by deeply-desired holidays? Or will it be mask mandates for children in order to return to school in September?

How much pressure can, or will, citizens accept before serious pushback? I’m sure there’s a company out there that already has an algorithm on this very subject. No doubt Gates and governments are party to similar information as the heat is clearly being turned up so that when the “ miracle vaccines” arrive, citizens will be only too happy to oblige to ease the pain. See our video in article one for more quotes from Bill Gates.

–Meleni Aldridge, ANH International —

https://www.anhinternational.org/news/gates-on-covid-vaccines-the-video/

70096 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Victoria, 5, #613 of 1806 🔗

With Fauci talking eye shields, and the MSM hinting at gloves, *surely* people will begin to wake up when they are forced to don *3* different types of ‘protection’ to leave their homes????

70168 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Carrie, #614 of 1806 🔗

Sadly, lots of people I know would love it…

70210 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to A. Contrarian, #615 of 1806 🔗

Ditto – they’ve never had such an opportunity to exercise their superiority complexes.

70322 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #616 of 1806 🔗

Or they’ll just lock themselves down and order online.

69996 Victoria, 12, #617 of 1806 🔗

Swiss Policy Research – 30 Facts about covid-19

Lots of interesting facts and numbers

“According to the latest immunological studies, the overall lethality of covid-19 is about 0.1% putting it in the range of a severe influenza… Have a read and see whether the pain of the last 5 months is balanced by the latest data in your view”

https://www.anhinternational.org/news/swiss-policy-research-facts-about-covid-19/

69998 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #618 of 1806 🔗

Well I never, didn’t know there was a statistics regulator.

Nicola Sturgeon rebuked over England virus comparison
https://bbc.in/3gene17

The statistics regulator has now sent a letter to the Scottish government’s chief statistician expressing its concern about Ms Sturgeon’s claim that the rate is five times higher in England.

70009 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #619 of 1806 🔗

Just a wonderful amount of fancy nothing will ensue. Their may be a Chief Stat Baker but they’re as pointless as they are well known.

Five times though. She is wreckless among many, many other defects.

70030 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #620 of 1806 🔗

Yeah, seen this. She is a horrible person. Interesting to see how it pans out

70087 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to stefarm, #621 of 1806 🔗

And in reply to Carlaw about this she said something about “feeling sorry for him” that he would be party political at this time…

70141 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to kf99, 2, #622 of 1806 🔗

Let’s not forget she doesn’t like to rely on facts and data that are recorded and written down

69999 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #623 of 1806 🔗

I thought it had disappeared but they have started to talk about the ‘R’ rate again and here in the south west it could be above 1, shock horror, the apocalypse is upon us! It surprises me that everybody seems to accept these announcements without question, as if the powers that be sit round like Macbeth’s witches, eye of newt and toe of frog and out pops the R number never to be questioned.
It seems very hard to find out how they calculate this number and what has changed when it goes up or down? I get the feeling it is a more subjective process than they would like to admit. As it is, it seems just another factor that was supposed to be helpful but is actually being used to beat us over our heads. Why is nobody questioning the R rate business?

70352 ▶▶ GLT, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #624 of 1806 🔗

Professor Michael Levitt quizzed the Imperial College team during an online webinar about Covid in Brazil. Only time I have seen him lose his cool. Toby has a transcript of it on the site somewhere. He said he had queried a number of epidemiologists on how R could be calculated in the way it is being used and had received no explanation. He got his Nobel prize for modelling complex bio-physical symptoms so chance that our government are talking about anything statistically meaningful when they quote R is negligible.

70385 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #625 of 1806 🔗

The R thing was always intended to bamboozle us with science that we were too thick to understand.
Much more to the point, there have been No deaths from the Covid in the South West for over three weeks.

70001 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 3, #626 of 1806 🔗

More news from the US

CDC Privately Changed their Fatality Reporting Guidelines, Over-inflating Deaths by 92.2%

https://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/if-covid-fatalities-were-902-lower-how-would-you-feel-about-schools-reopening

70063 ▶▶ Wesley, replying to Victoria, 1, #627 of 1806 🔗

Hmmm, just like what happened here what a coincidence!!!!

70318 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Victoria, #628 of 1806 🔗

92% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

70013 swedenborg, 8, #629 of 1806 🔗

https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1288815463506612230/photo/1
Pakistan,Dehli,Egypt,Afganistan
 “For the maths inclined: when unfettered, in young populations, the COVID-19 case growth follows a steep Gompertz time decay for a span of ca. 2 months when it grows exponentially at ca. 5% a day (exp(exp(-3)) before burning out quickly, running out of susceptible targets.

70015 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to Gillian, 1, #631 of 1806 🔗

Oops, sorry. already posted below (red face)

70028 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 6, #632 of 1806 🔗

Don’t be embarrassed she is a lying wee bitch and what’s more, we all know she is a lying wee bitch too. (Mighty righteous face)

70200 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Gillian, 1, #633 of 1806 🔗

Staring out is that they’ve only got 9 countries from Europe in that chart, and the caption says ‘countries where death increase below 0 excluded. So – does that mean all other countries have below average deaths for the year now?! – if so, just further evidence the behaviour we are seeing of governments is completely insane. France is only up 0.2% and yet is mandating masks, had a bonkers lockdown and is insisting on further restrictions.

Evidence screaming in their faces, governments continue to ignore and destroy our livelihoods.

70017 Steeve, 15, #634 of 1806 🔗

Paradox of the mask – true little story

Just cum back from parents (85 & 87 yrs old) they had made a rare visit to the shop. “How was it”? Dad – “I put mask on but it nearly killed me! – but you can’t be too careful can you?”

70020 elliotsdad, replying to elliotsdad, 6, #636 of 1806 🔗

My GP practice has actually been pretty good the last month or so, though most appointments are phone consultations. I’ve had 3 telephone appointments and even one face to face appointment and all within a day or two, plus a chest X-ray at a local treatment centre. So far so good.
However, although not serious (I hope!) my GP has deemed it necessary to refer me to my local hospital Treatment Centre and warned me it might be a while before I got my appointment. I got the letter with details book my appointment – but no appointments available.
Then I get another letter from the hospital informing me that “NHS England is currently using our Treatment Centre for extra capacity, to help ease pressures on the NHS as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic….. ” blah blah blah.
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-portsmouth-qa-hospital-goes-seven-weeks-without-any-covid-19-deaths-2523054
I live near Portsmouth and according to the local paper no covid deaths have occurred there since June 5th. So what exactly do NHS England need the extra capacity for? Does anyone know where to find information about the number of people in hospitals for covid treatment and how many are for what type of treatment?
Is there any activity going on in hospitals other than for covid? Obviously, covid is the only ilness that people are allowed treatment for and not allowed to die from – not that I’m saying I’m dying.

70404 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to elliotsdad, #637 of 1806 🔗

NHS is still fixated with preparing for the elusive second wave. Several specialist sections of our main hospital are still converted to ICU despite never having been used for Covid patients.
I know of one senior surgeon on maternity leave who is working from home ‘managing’ preparations putting in many more hours than she is comfortable with.

70497 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to elliotsdad, #638 of 1806 🔗

There’s no appointments because they’re desperately trying to catch up the backlog, you’re a new referral,they won’t get to you for an age.

70021 Hoppy Uniatz, 13, #639 of 1806 🔗

Went to Victoria Coach Station yesterday. One way system at the entrance, a couple of young men in pale blue masks directing people. One of them came forward urgently gesturing at his mask and saying “we can provide you with a mask.” Hoppy: “I’ve got an exemption” (perfectly true, it’s the same as Peter Hitchens, colluding in this vast arse-covering fiction with a government for whom I voted would certainly cause me severe distress). Anyhow he smiled and waved me through! Try it guys!

70026 Telpin, replying to Telpin, #640 of 1806 🔗

Does anyone know how to email Toby with material?

70029 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Telpin, 1, #641 of 1806 🔗
70031 Ewan Duffy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 25, #642 of 1806 🔗

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0730/1156430-coronavirus-ireland/

There are 6 people in hospital with COVID19 in Ireland, but we still have to wear facemasks on public transport, are encouraged to wear them in shops and pubs not serving food cannot open, nor can music events take place. We are also told not to leave the country (unless emigrating).

I despair for my country.

70032 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Ewan Duffy, 8, #643 of 1806 🔗

Has it been announced you are going for carbon net .. sorry covid zero?

2 in icu, 260 in hospital, no deaths for two weeks. Made to wear masks in shops and on bus/train trips. Scotland. We are proudly going for covid (i’m sure they mean corona) zero. Zero or bust is a heck of a wise plan.

70033 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Ewan Duffy, 7, #644 of 1806 🔗

Ditto for most of the world.

70034 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ewan Duffy, 6, #645 of 1806 🔗

Didn’t half the population emigrate during the potato famine?
Perhaps it’s now time for the other half.

70059 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to annie, 1, #646 of 1806 🔗

Don’t tempt me!

70038 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Ewan Duffy, 5, #647 of 1806 🔗

Can’t leave the country? I’ve seen a few RoI number plates about in the past few weeks, and not all of them attached to lorries. Some of your countrymen have escaped, Ewan! (and are very welcome here, btw)

70076 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #648 of 1806 🔗

Seen some Irish plates on camper vans in North Wales this week. Few masks in Cymru (apart from the buses and trains). Hop over the water, Ewan – and join the mass mask exodus (masxodus?).

70092 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Ewan Duffy, 4, #649 of 1806 🔗

You’re right to despair, as I am despairing here in England. Here are some extracts from the article:

The CEO of the Health Service Executive has said the number of people in hospital with Covid-19 is now at six, down from a peak of 879.

Four of those patients are in intensive care units, which is down from a peak of 160.

Paul Reid urged people to “keep fighting hard against this virus”.

Keep fighting – For how long, FFS!

…………..

Meanwhile, the Department of Health in Northern Ireland has reported a 17th consecutive day without further deaths from Covid-19.

The official death toll remains at 556.

Eight new cases of the disease have been confirmed, bringing the total number of cases to 5,938.

The Department said the current estimate of the Reproductive rate of the virus in Northern Ireland is between 0.5 and 1.

So eight new cases but the (meaningless) R number is “somewhere” between 0.5 and 1. With eight new cases let me add my estimate: it’s zero.
…………..

A specialist in infectious diseases has said there is a risk in every area of society that is reopened and every area that is relaxed.

Professor Sam McConkey said what he would like to see is the number of cases in Ireland being brought down to zero.

Speaking on RTÉ’s Today with Sarah McInerney, he said he believes there will be a “multitude of second ripples” of the disease and effective methods need to be in place to test and trace.

He said Ireland needs to keep “on message” and people need to keep doing what they are asked to do, adding that he would be horrified if the country returned to the situation experienced in March.

So he wants to go for zero does he (like Kranky in Scotland)? Looks like Ireland is in this for the long haul then. This guy is obviously revelling in the predicament the government has brought about.

70124 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Ewan Duffy, 3, #650 of 1806 🔗

I have come to the conclusion that it’s not worth it anymore to engage politically.
This mankind does not want to and as such does not deserve to live in freedom anymore.
I hope Sweden stays open to those who still do for the rest of my lifetime, but otherwise, I couldn’t care less.
The sheep now want to and deserve to be slaughtered.

70155 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #651 of 1806 🔗

So true — when the so-called conservatives are extending their “emergency powers” indefinitely and have trampled our rights and freedoms so brazenly, who is there left to vote for? I’ll probably have to throw up in my mouth a little bit to keep voting conservative, only because they *may* at least be a bit less likely to tax the hell out of us to pay for all of this nonsense. I’m in Canada, so I don’t think Sweden is an option for me…sadly.

70493 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Jay Berger, #652 of 1806 🔗

That is exactly how I feel. Wheat from the chaff.

70041 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 20, #653 of 1806 🔗

Today I’ve been in a big distribution warehouse for a clothing company (high street). They have been desperately calling in all their casual staff trying to keep up with orders, word from management being that sales are sky high because of reduced pricing but also because of reduced footfall in the stores.

Someone I talked to has a son who works for the post office sorting the parcels. She noted that during lockdown, they were in much the same position- tonnes of work, not enough staff. Then it calmed down for a few months as lockdown began easing. Now it’s back up manic busy levels again- her son being called in every day to do 10-12 hour shifts like he was at the height of lockdown.

The mask boycott is having an effect. Wonder if Rishi has noticed yet.

70049 ▶▶ Cecil B, replying to Farinances, 9, #654 of 1806 🔗

Rishi doesn’t give a FF

70306 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cecil B, #655 of 1806 🔗

He’s married to a billionaire. Why does he need to give a FF?

70069 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 19, #656 of 1806 🔗

But where is the direct pressure on the government from high street chain managers and owners? How long will it take them to grasp the situation? And if the government refuses to respond, dare they go outside the back channel routes to back open dissent?

There’s a bit of a chicken and egg situation here. So long as the media keeps the population in a state of fear via fear propaganda, nobody dares to be seen to be endangering people and the aggressive conformist zealots will be empowered to menace and intimidate any corporate or political figure who dares to step out of line.. But until somebody puts real pressure on the media to stop the campaign of fear propaganda, people will continue to be held in place by fear.

70127 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, 1, #657 of 1806 🔗

They don’t care as long as they are making the ££££. People are buying online, so they stil making the ££££.

70128 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 2, #658 of 1806 🔗

(But they’re selling at cut down prices. Eventually this WILL have an affect and they will be fucked.)

70230 ▶▶ Michael C, replying to Farinances, 7, #659 of 1806 🔗

Interesting. I was in Tesco Express in Wandsworth – a few masked a few unmasked. What really caught my eye was that much of the dated produce was very short dated like best before no more than a couple of days, last week much longer dated produce was on the shelves. To me that suggest the possibility that produce is moving off the shelves much more slowly following the introduction of mandatory masks.

70315 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 1, #660 of 1806 🔗

It’s amazing that no-one in the retail and hospitality sectors have kicked off over what that government is doing to their businesses. What will it take for them to finally say “enough is enough”?

70347 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bart Simpson, #661 of 1806 🔗

That’s why they haven’t introduced masks in pubs and restaurants. People have to buy food but they don’t have to have fun that they no longer think is fun. Masks in leisure food/drink/entertainment sector would decimate the industry – and that industry WOULD kick off.

I’ll be very interested to see what they do with the theatres and venues. Has anyone been to the cinema yet?

70060 Jonathan Castro, replying to Jonathan Castro, 8, #662 of 1806 🔗

Just got back from Guildford Aldi (Burpham). All customers in masks apart from a lady who’d pulled hers down from her face. Staff not in masks, but extra screening put up. Nobody asked me anything.
I’ve concluded Guildford is the Borg.

70070 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jonathan Castro, 7, #663 of 1806 🔗

I’m in a similar county town and mask wearing in supermarkets is reportedly high. Reports from a friend on a bus in London that mask wearing is much lower. Maybe it’s related to how law-abiding places are, rather than any degree of scepticism.

70068 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 13, #664 of 1806 🔗

The Dr John Lee interview on Spiked is excellent – a must listen. This guy is spot on in everything he says. Although sadly he didn’t really have a solution for ending current f**kwittery…

70072 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to HelzBelz, #665 of 1806 🔗

Yes – Very Good! Do you think he will get a slot on the BBC?

70077 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Steeve, 2, #666 of 1806 🔗

Hmmm sadly not – he is not speaking in acceptable GroupThink. John Lee for PM I say though!

70153 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to HelzBelz, #667 of 1806 🔗

One of the best interviews I’ve heard since the madness started! Well worth a listen.

70310 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #668 of 1806 🔗

There’s a good interview with a German psychologist on a this, Prof. Bruder, who also comes to the conclusion that this can only be ended if the organized oppositional forces, parties, media, unions, trade bodies change course- the individual is powerless.
In Germany, the opposition comes mainly from former East German civil rights activists, Professors from the 1968 student generation and from unafraid professional GenXers that haven’t been corrupted or lost their ability to think critical yet.
The young are completely hopeless/adamant woke supporters or apolitical hedonists.

70074 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #669 of 1806 🔗

https://twitter.com/kerpen/status/1288568291338985472/photo/1
Quote from Robert Redfield CDC. Very interesting. My interpretation is that he is stating social distancing not that important, if we all wear masks in 12 weeks everything will be fine. In fact, he abolishes the six feet distancing almost if you wear a mask instead.I have noticed that this fellow has crept more and more into the limelight sidestepping Fauci. Not especially charismatic but why is he suddenly everywhere speaking about opening schools and economy? Does he want the American public wear mask and promising them at the same time opening up totally? He has even been on TV and stated that flu is 5-10 times deadlier than Covid-19, as we all know but was hidden in project fear and Fauci. Redfield has the recent Public Health Data and there is most likely some very bad data like deaths, suicides, drug over dose etc. The US economy has just had a 33% reduction.If UK’s lockdown and 10% BNB fall was not cost effective even in Fergusson’s 500 000 death scenario how could the US lockdown be cost effective? How could the US be so brainless and lockdown all over the big US territory when the epidemic clearly was not even in synch everywhere? Look at California which had lockdown and mask mandate early on and having the impact now instead of NYC several months earlier.Of course Robert Redfield knows that masks stopping transmission is bogus and just theatre to be used in the political arena as a bargaining chip to open schools and economy for the recalcitrant teacher unions and Dem Governors. His own CDC published in May a comprehensive review of masks for flu and 12 RCTs showed no effect.

70102 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 13, #670 of 1806 🔗

Masks have struck me from the start as the new neutron bomb – perpetuate the fear and the control but don’t wreck the economy – pretend people are living normally. In some ways I’d rather we go back to lockdown than wear masks forever.

70152 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Julian, 11, #671 of 1806 🔗

Couldn’t agree with you more! I’m basically in lockdown anyway because I won’t wear a mask for longer than 10 or 15 minutes, which means I go almost nowhere. Toronto keeps allowing more to open up, but with each new “treat” they hit us with a new, draconian humiliation. As of August 5th I’m expected to wear a muzzle inside my condo building in any common spaces. Bridge too far and will not do it. And since they’ve “allowed” restaurants to serve indoors as of tomorrow, they’ve mandated contact tracing information. Suffice it to say, I will write a bogus name and phone number. For all those who said about masks, “it’s just a piece of cloth, what’s the big deal?” — I say fuck you and your slippery slope to dictatorship.

70167 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Julian, 2, #672 of 1806 🔗

i agree – i find this mask nonsense very difficult and is affecting my mood/behaviour. I avoid where possible anywhere requiring a covering so basically I don’t go shopping and work from home fortunately so not huge need to venture to shops.
I heard briefly on R4 on 5pm show some Aussie WHO fella who saying that flu in australia has been so low this year due to lockdown, distancing, masks and schools closed … you know what they’re putting it out there and i can see this enforcement permanently to avoid the flu.

70343 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, #673 of 1806 🔗

Me too. Nobody can deny lockdown is abnormal and ruinous. Apparently everyone doesn’t think masks are anything but a mild imposition.

70075 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 12, #674 of 1806 🔗

With this lovely sunny weather the last few days, I’ve spotted a few people in masks and … sunglasses! No idea if I know them or not – I mean how would you? They do look somewhat intimidating though.

70078 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #675 of 1806 🔗

Baseball cap?

70561 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to HelzBelz, #676 of 1806 🔗

Reminds of Claude Rains in ‘The Invisible Man’.

70084 Hester, replying to Hester, 24, #677 of 1806 🔗

I returned to the Uk from visiting a blissful lovely almost normal part of Italy this weekend. Today I was asked by an aquaintance about my trip, I said it was great, Italians are avid mask wearers in shops, but there is no queuing, no arrows, no perspex, you can touch things and try on, and in Bars and Restaurants its normal, it was so lovely to be able to walk by people without them squeezing themselves away, or having to fillout forms etc etc.
Her response was “Were’nt you scared” I was perplexed, and said no, why ?it was lovely. Her response “because they are being reckless, there is a big second wave coming and its not right”. All I could say was I am only scared of Bears and there wasn’t any around and newsflash we all die sometime but I suspect most of us won’t die from this. It was met with a look of total horror.

70125 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Hester, 12, #678 of 1806 🔗

People are fucked in the head, and I really don’t understand how they got there so quickly.

It’s like a switch has been flipped, that connects their otherwise sane faculties to the lizard brain (same weird phenomenon that’s resposible for Brexit/Trump derangement syndrome and various other weirdly political states of fear in perpetua – I know people are rightly trying to keep this stuff apolitical but…come on. Calling it how I see it). Once the lizard brain has been activated, there is no turning back until something SHOCKS them back to reality. For most sadly this will be eventual penury.

70488 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Farinances, #679 of 1806 🔗

They were always this stupid, now they’re easy to spot. I mean, a Netflix show about dwaves and dragons was watched and loved by millions of adults, actual tax paying grown-ups. Are you really suprised? I’m not, even slightly. As someone said to me the other day. I’m smart, everone else is a cretin.

70100 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #681 of 1806 🔗

That’s still owned by Murdoch. Not really a fan of his (don’t know much about him tbh) but seems like Billionaires with Balls are some of the few who are too big to cancel and don’t care much what people think of them, as long as their products keep selling. I see News Corp owns the Wall Street Journal too, which seems to have been more steadfast than some in defence of freedom of speech.

70112 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, 2, #682 of 1806 🔗

Worth including here another great example of a corona dissenter being abused by conformist idiots in the mainstream media, also from Sky News Australia, posted below by T Prince:

Conservative commentator questions US COVID death toll

70298 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #683 of 1806 🔗

Appalling rudeness!

70398 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, #684 of 1806 🔗

Yes, it’s the shameless, open rudeness of the bully for the outsider he/she knows will get no protection from authority or peers.

70121 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark, #685 of 1806 🔗

I find this veeeeeeeery interesting. It’s as if Australian MSM is somehow populated with ex-BBC journos lol

70291 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #686 of 1806 🔗

Good videos.
The point about Trump is interesting: That if Trump had strongly advocated muzzle-wearing, Fauci and the MSM would bend over backwards to prove that wearing muzzles is a bad idea.
Opportunity missed!

What we need now is for Bloris and his pet “scientists” to discover that wearing face nappies makes you put on weight …..

70405 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, #687 of 1806 🔗

Especially impressed with the economist, Gigi Foster. That’s a woman with brains and balls, if you’ll pardon the expression!

70094 Barney McGrew, 3, #688 of 1806 🔗

Slightly disappointed with Guy’s passive acceptance of the mask – not the fact that he wore it, but that he didn’t rage against it more. But maybe that’s the best way to stay sane.

70097 Paul, replying to Paul, 10, #689 of 1806 🔗

Just returned from a couple of hours of maskless shopping in my town,in Lincolnshire,there were positives and negatives.

Positive

We went to a fairly large carpet store,small sign saying wear a mask if you can,sanitiser if you want it,staff unmuzzled and not distancing,all other customers except one lady were masked but no hassle from them,no dirty looks and no swerving away from us.Altogether a fairly pleasant experience,they did manage to extract several hundred pounds from me though !.Before we went in my wife and I agreed that at the first sign of any covid nonsense we would walk out,pleased we didn’t need to.

Matalan next,no problems from staff or customers.All staff were masked but a small number of other customers weren’t.

In Farmfoods we were the only customers without masks and all staff were covered in those horrible black masks that look like posing pouches.I got a surprised look from one customer,he didn’t say anything and I gave him a look that tried to convey ‘yes,no muzzle,you could be like me too !’,no attention from other customers and they had no problem queuing behind me without distancing.No problems with staff,friendly and helpful as they have always been.

Negative

After a reduction in mask wearing at the beginning of this week it has quickly risen back to about 95% compliance again,since all this second wave bullshit is constantly being pushed by the media I reckon.

Many more children in masks,I saw a little girl in a pushchair who would’ve been about three years old wearing one,it made me quite angry,it is child abuse

Quite a few walking the streets muzzled,even away from the shopping areas.The temperature here this afternoon was about 28 degrees and the sun was intense,people seriously need their heads testing if they are prepared to restrict their breathing in this kind of weather.

I get the feeling a lot of masked people are complying because they are scared of getting a fine more than the fact they think it has any medical benefit.

Overall I would say the shops were a lot quieter than I am used to a lovely July afternoon.

70113 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Paul, 4, #690 of 1806 🔗

Do not accept the fixed penalty notice, refuse it. If you accept it you are pleading guilty as “charged” hence the fine.

Refuse to accept it and you have to go for trial in the magistrate’s court if they can prove who you are.

Don’t give identification, there are very few times you are obliged to give it with the main ones being when stopped for a driving offence and having to prove you have entitlement for that class of vehicle (driving licence) and proving you have a shotgun/firearms certificate if you have one of the in your possession at the time of being stopped.

From gov.uk:

You’ll be asked to sign the penalty notice ticket. You won’t get a criminal conviction if you pay the penalty. – this is you saying you are guilty
You can ask for a trial if you disagree with the penalty notice. This is your refusal to accept

You’ll get a bigger fine if you don’t ask for a trial but don’t pay the fine. This is you accepting guilty but not paying the fine

70126 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #691 of 1806 🔗

Just on the subject of identification – a special interest of mine – does anyone know how this quarantine bullshit is being managed at the airport? I understand you have to fill in a form with name and address, but what other details, and is it linked to your passport? Remembering, of course, that passports don’t hold addresses, and the passport office won’t necessarily have your current address.

70134 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, 6, #692 of 1806 🔗

it seems like they’re assuming that a lot of people’s address on their passport won’t be the one they currently reside at. Hence asking them for an address on the form. Leads me to believe they’re not linking it to passports at all – why need an extra form otherwise?
Quarantine is eminently dodgeable from what I’ve heard. I’ll just be ignoring it if I get to Greece. (Although it seems like they will be switching the quarantine countries on and off the list willy nilly to suit. Spain was targeted because they know it’s the number one place for British holidaymakers. Don’t travel guys – we’ll make your life hell if you do! Until you have our wonderful vaccine!)

70135 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Farinances, 3, #693 of 1806 🔗

Hope you manage to get away. We’re now looking at Copenhagen for short break.

70137 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, #694 of 1806 🔗

Flights are causing me aggro. Everything’s a bit too ‘up in the air’ for me to book. Safest thing would be to fly to Athens and ferry it wherever I need to be. Trouble is Athens is probably the only place in Greece liable to be a Covysteria hotspot.

70157 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Farinances, 1, #695 of 1806 🔗

fly direct to one of the islands – i looked last night and flights to corfu and crete are reasonable in sept. I’m thinking of escaping to Preveza/Lefkas for a couple of weeks in sept … depending on the next ridiculous restrictions of this government to entirely ruin everyone’s summer/year/life!

70179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sue, 1, #696 of 1806 🔗

Athens is easiest for Spetses (where I will prob go) as it is just round the coast and you can hop a ferry over. It takes way longer to get to Lesbos (my other port in a storm) by ferry, about 6 hours but I have done it in the past to save money. I tend to fly in to Mytilene direct if poss but now flights are not happening or very convoluted (via Amsterdam). Best islands for Lesbos are actually Skiathos/Skopelos which though tiny have very well served tourist airports. I’ve done it via Skiathos before and that was great, because Skiathos is gorgeous.

70182 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #697 of 1806 🔗

I’ve always wanted to go to Lesbos via Turkey actually (literally just across the water). Now could be the time but god knows where the nearest Turkish airport would be.

70192 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Farinances, 2, #698 of 1806 🔗

i love skiathos – been there several times. I may check who flies there now – easyjet don’t seem to.
I’ve been to Lesbos with Neilson holidays some years ago now and I think they are operating again – i go with them most years for windsurfing etc – you could check Neilson website which airline they are using to get to lesbos – they may charter their own plane if so i doubt it would be full and may sell you a seat – worth a try! 🙂

70195 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sue, #699 of 1806 🔗

omg thanks for the tip! Will check it out. Nielson….Scandi outfit?

70197 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Farinances, #700 of 1806 🔗

nope british company t hey just sound scandi! you may have to go through a fake booking to see the flight details

70204 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Farinances, #701 of 1806 🔗

actually Farinances – i just looked on their website and don’t seem to be selling any holidays this summer – so out of luck…darn i was going to try and go away with them too…back to easyjet and somewhere in greece then 🙂

70232 ▶▶▶▶▶ StevieH, replying to Farinances, #702 of 1806 🔗

There are no addresses on passports

70271 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to StevieH, #703 of 1806 🔗

Yeah but can’t they look them up? You have to put them on the form when you apply

70136 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, #704 of 1806 🔗

Don’t give identification

Just to clarify, do you mean here don’t give your name and address or don’t give proof of identity? Because my understanding is that if you refuse to give your name and address you risk being arrested if you are suspected of an offence.

70139 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mark, #705 of 1806 🔗

Correct. But it’s important to stress the “only if suspected of an offence” bit. And even then, you are not obliged to produce formal identification documents.

70142 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mark, 1, #706 of 1806 🔗

Basically you do not have to prove who you are, show identification and so on when stopped in the street for FPN’s, stop and search etc even if suspected of a crime.

Driving offences and firearms are different – you have to prove you are allowed to drive, carry the firearm/shotgun, selling alcohol so need an alcohol licence etc.

For “normal” stops it is different.

Intelligent rioters only carry cash, pre-paid anonymous phones, no identification and so on as it is up to the Police to prove who you are, hence the drive for all to be on DNA database so they know who you are even without ID.

70190 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #707 of 1806 🔗

I can imagine the police may try to get around this “prove who you are” thing by trying to make you prove your exemption – if you’re claiming one. The exemptions are written in to the legislation after all, and well…. to prove exemption you’d have to prove who you were by default seeing as your doctor’s note would be in your name.
I highly doubt however that the police would want to fuck with discrimination/disability law to get at you that way.
Honestly? Best thing to do would be to run away 😀

70292 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Farinances, 1, #708 of 1806 🔗

But the “may cause distress” exemption does not have to be medically proved, Only you know if it causes distress or not and distress cannot be quantified

70303 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to mjr, 1, #709 of 1806 🔗

Exactly.
Brits are the only ones who have gotten a get out of jail free card, but still refuse to use it.
Tells us a lot about that people.

70471 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Farinances, #710 of 1806 🔗

Nope, the Police are not allowed to access your medical records, wait till you get to Court to produce them.

I was once required to be a ‘hostile witness’; Police phoned to confirm I would attend Court, told them I was ‘off sick’ gave them my GPs phone number. 10 minutes later the Practice phoned me asking my permission to give Police the information they wanted re my inability to attend.

70455 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, #711 of 1806 🔗

Law Courts are still closed so there will be a backlog of at least six months if they opened next week.
Can’t see them wanting to be clogged up with non payment cases for a law that’s probably already been repealed.

70105 DRW, replying to DRW, 2, #712 of 1806 🔗

Evening sceptics, just wondering if anywhere has had an actual second wave? Of course delayed firsts and/or increased PCRs/serologys don’t count.

70107 ▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, 2, #713 of 1806 🔗

Iran, though hard to know really unless anyone knows how accurate their reporting is? Deaths are back up, as well as cases. Maybe it was a delayed first wave due to a lockdown.

70115 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 6, #714 of 1806 🔗

Yep. And this is what will happen in New Zealand as soon as they open their borders.

Unless they never want to. Bye bye New Zealand.

70202 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, 7, #715 of 1806 🔗

My NZ friend, formerly a mild woman, thoroughly approves of imprisonment for anybody who dares break quarantine. If they’re all like her, they aren’t Covid free, they’re Covid-psychotic.

70207 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to annie, 2, #716 of 1806 🔗

surely that should read “A NZ woman, formerly a friend …” 🙂

70300 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to annie, 1, #717 of 1806 🔗

I can somewhat understand it in a country that pursued and was successful at elimination of the virus.
The problem is, they are now completely reliant upon the existence and availability of a 100% effective vaccine there.
Otherwise, they face either the same future as the Sentinelese, or a deferred cull.

Therefore: Give me Tegnell over Ardern at any time….

70117 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Julian, 8, #718 of 1806 🔗

I think another issue in countries such as Iran, where a “second wave” is claimed, is to do with geography. As the “experts” keep pointing out, the virus doesn’t respect borders or boundaries. So maybe it came and went in some of the more populous areas of Iran, but other more remote areas were slower off the mark, so to speak. They are now having their “first wave” – their only wave. It’s perhaps a mistake to view the dynamics of contagion on a country-wide basis. Put another way, if indeed Iran has had two waves, the first one was in one part of the country and the second one was somewhere else. How would this theory stack up for the likes of the USA, Brazil, and indeed, China?

70130 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, 3, #719 of 1806 🔗

Good point. Noone stipulates the geography – unless it’s New York and they’re making a point to scare people.

70169 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 1, #720 of 1806 🔗

Good point!

70215 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tenchy, 1, #721 of 1806 🔗

Good point but it will burn through a whole country in two or three months, even a big one, if there are no restrictions. They do slow things down but in nearly all cases so far the virus just catches up and it’s just a very expensive way of delaying the inevitable.

But there may be one or two countries who will make a success of it and hold out for a vaccine.

70205 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Julian, 4, #722 of 1806 🔗

The second waves are all delayed first waves due to lockdown. There’s no other reason for the epidemic to proceed in waves. There will be a small increase in cases in the winter in most places however and it will be interesting to see how big that is compared to other viruses. I suspect Covid will stay very low in the UK even this winter but will be a bit bigger next year or a few years after that.

I think the second waves the media talk about are by definition induced by lockdown relaxation as the official narrative is that the only reason the virus is in retreat is the swift and decisive actions of our wonderful government rofl lmao etc.

70270 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to guy153, 4, #723 of 1806 🔗

I think you’re right. My concern is the flu season. I.e. them ascribing flu to covid rather than vice versa.

70363 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Farinances, #724 of 1806 🔗

Or they might just go on having conniptions about every positive Covid test when more people are dying from other colds/flus (which they already are).

70301 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to guy153, 1, #725 of 1806 🔗

Spot on.

70477 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, #726 of 1806 🔗

Romania similarly apparently

70487 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to DRW, #727 of 1806 🔗

Jeremy Vine show full on Second Wave scarifying two days running.
He was at it 6 weeks ago when Sally from Southend rang in to declare
“Of course there’ll be a second wave it’s happening all over the weold”.
Instead of asking for examples Jeremy just let that idea sink in before moving on.

70106 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 13, #728 of 1806 🔗

Depressing in Waitrose right now. Despite no mandatory face masks in Wales and our area having zero covid cases in ICU for over a month suddenly a plague of mask wearers have appeared. Could be the English invaders not realising masks not required but worrying most of the staff now seem to be wearing them when in previous weeks they haven’t been, so I wonder if there has been a mask message from HQ?

Needless to say my fellow maskless shoppers looked far more relaxed than those in masks. I felt like stopping each maskzombie and asking them if they knew how many positive cases were announced for Wales today. The answer is 9. Not for my county but the entirety of Wales.

70249 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to The Spingler, 1, #729 of 1806 🔗

Sadly, yes from head office mask wearing is “strongly advised” in customer facing roles, but not compulsory, so yet again employees are complying even though there are no consequences to not doing it! Just keep telling people, eventually they will wake up…

70114 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 6, #730 of 1806 🔗

https://thecritic.co.uk/face-masks-make-you-stupid/

Has anyone posted this? Forgot where I got it from, could have been in Toby’s links yesterday. Anyway, whatever, it’s a great insight into the behaviour changes wearing a mask incites. Somebody who wears a muzzle may well not have started off stupid, but they sure will end up with less critical thinking skills after a few months.

70120 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Farinances, 2, #731 of 1806 🔗

Yes, we read it a couple of days ago and thought it was excellent.

70191 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Farinances, 2, #732 of 1806 🔗

Very good, thank you.
Will send it to all my remaining contacts…
Maybe they wake up.

70261 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #733 of 1806 🔗

Toby linked it. It’s very good.

70118 Nobody2020, 2, #734 of 1806 🔗

Interesting Twitter thread:

The ONS put out a great article on excess deaths in Europe today, showing weekly and cumulative figures.

https://twitter.com/TravellingTabby/status/1288872319243489281

Discussing this recent offering from ONS:

Comparisons of all-cause mortality between European countries and regions: January to June 2020
https://bit.ly/3ff0Yms

70119 Tom Blackburn, 7, #735 of 1806 🔗

Stickers have arrived

70122 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 10, #736 of 1806 🔗

More good news from the Wild High Peak. My husband’s just been on a bus ride for supplies (OK, wine…) He was the only passenger as usual, no hassle from the driver. Bought wine OK, no hassle from shopkeeper. A bus which serves what used to be a very busy route passed him as he waited for the bus back. 6 people on it but 2 without masks. One his way back a 40-ish bloke got on with no mask. Again nothing said.

Of course, the bastards could up the ante any time but, as things stand, there is a small and possibly growing push-back from the sane and it would be great if we could help people along.

It’s part of the psy-op which goes something like, ‘ We’re taking the piss, we’re making it obvious we’re taking the piss but we can do to you what we like because we now control your minds and you won’t even notice’.

Despite this, I have heard nobody around here giving a FF about the invented ‘2nd wave’ so they will need to come up with something else soon. The longer it goes on and nobody knows anyone who has had the lurgy, if at all, for the last 4 months, the more people just might start waking up.

Meanwhile, from what I’ve seen and others have reported, the drive to get us all out of shops and onto online seems to be going as planned. Personally, I don’t think boycotting shops is the way to tackle the muzzle rule, unless they are being really obnoxious. I would go in maskless with an exemption card in your pocket in case you need it. If you don’t want to claim health reasons, print a ‘reasonable excuse’ one. Nobody, by law, can ask you what your excuse is so you don’t actually need one!

Here’s some light reading: https://www.activistpost.com/2020/07/covid19-the-great-reset-the-new-normal.html

70250 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #737 of 1806 🔗

Mrs Dee should get one of those masks to wear at work!

70123 Awkward Git, 17, #738 of 1806 🔗

Not doing too badly on the Daily Fail’s comments today – 28+,6- on the comment that more and more getting pissed off with the nonsense, not the blitz spirit evaporating.

70129 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 16, #739 of 1806 🔗

My wife’s just come home – was forced by her department head to wear a mask today when outside the office (corridors, other offices etc). She works in a health environment, but has no public contact whatsoever.

She came home with a banging headache, severe pain on one side of her head, palpitations, dizziness and fatigue. She describes the wearing of the mask as if she is being slowly suffocated, especially in a hot, stuffy room. She’s worked all through the Lockdown with no problems. This is the first time during the ‘crisis’ that she’s had health problems at work – and it’s all down to a little bit of face cloth.

So I’ve just ordered her one of those exemption cards from Etsy. Thanks for the link, Toby!

70140 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mr Dee, 14, #740 of 1806 🔗

All politicians who’ve spoken in favour of masks should feel themselves obliged to wear one every waking hour. Fine for them to impose restrictions which are not going to effect them one iota. They should lead by example!

70175 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Ned of the Hills, 4, #741 of 1806 🔗

I bet you the politicians get rid of the mask rules after they return from their Summer recess on the first of September.

70181 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #742 of 1806 🔗

Muzzle Parliament, it’d be hilarious.

70183 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, 7, #743 of 1806 🔗

Blow it up. Even funnier.

Oh dear, looks like my old pre-humanist nature is resurfacing…

70186 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #744 of 1806 🔗

Well, one joke at a time I suppose!

70248 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, #745 of 1806 🔗

What Parliament? We haven’t had one for months.
Operating free of backbenchers will probably turn out to be another of Wankock’s successes:

“so many things went right” in the response to Covid-19, and new ways of working forged in the crisis should continue.

70607 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DRW, #746 of 1806 🔗

Muzzle Big Ben.

70198 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #747 of 1806 🔗

If only – I bet it won’t be for another six months!

70196 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #748 of 1806 🔗

Let’s start a petition to that effect!

70290 ▶▶ mjr, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #749 of 1806 🔗

do offices still have sick books? she should report her illness and the reasons for it to the HR department

70138 Gracie Knoll, 2, #750 of 1806 🔗

Here’s a great initiative related to what is almost certainly one of the objectives of this global psyop – i.e. Compulsory Vaccination courtesy of everyone’s favourite eugenicist, Bill Gates:

http://theconsciousresistance.com/BillGates/

70144 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, -8, #751 of 1806 🔗

Unmasked report 30 July

After being vilified and abused, I have had to wear a see through visor to see if it helped. Suffice to say I still feel I’m rebelling and making a point (am able to smile broadly and chat and converse and be sunny) but I’m not being abused.

Thoroughly enjoyed a shopping trip to Holt in Norfolk, supporting many independent businesses including a toy shop, clothes shop and cafe.

Then I went to the dreaded Waitrose where said abuse happened. All felt much much better with visor. It’s not ideal but as a half way house that saves the virtue signalling of others, I’m fine with that.

My other thought is perhaps I could tempt people towards the visor and away from the completely covered mouth and nose. It gives people more flexibility and step back to normality as really everyone is in those unhealthy masks and additionally all complaining about it.

70170 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Country Mumkin, 17, #752 of 1806 🔗

I came across a quote from Churchill today, while working on my current project. “ An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile — hoping it will eat him last.”

After the mask and visors, whatever next will the crocodile demand, if it thinks it can get with it?

Be brave, Mumkin – yield no inch of ground to these vile bullies. Go maskless and visorless, and let their abuse wash over you – they debase only themselves with their empty words.

By defying them, you empower yourself. Hold your head high and smile at those who vilify you – a human smile will make them shrink away like vampires. I’ve seen it happen!

70199 ▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #753 of 1806 🔗

I’m often with my 7 year old. I feel I have no choice. I can’t be abused in front of her.

I’m a bit disappointed with this lack of understanding here when I’m a total sceptic.

Personally, I think any divisiveness creates more issues.

70228 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Country Mumkin, 8, #754 of 1806 🔗

These people who hurl abuse at you, bad enough, but when they see you’ve got your child with you! They are sick in the head. What’s wrong with them? Nasty, twisted, spiteful creatures. I’m sorry you have had to go through this!

70287 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #755 of 1806 🔗

Simple. if someone starts to abuse you just turn towards your child and say loudly so all can hear. ” xxxxxxxx (child’s name). This person is not being nice to mummy/daddy because he/she is a very rude person who likes to be a bully. So we will ignore him so he/she doesnt make you cry”

70288 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #756 of 1806 🔗

I understand. In Toronto the mask compliance is 100% — actually I’d say it’s more than 100% because lots of morons are wearing them outdoors when we don’t (yet) even have to. No lanyards or anything here so it’s just not that easy to go mask-less and I know for sure I’d not be served in a store. My husband is doing all the shopping for now. I just received light coloured cloth masks I plan to write protest slogans on with permanent marker. And that’s only if I can get in and out of a place in 15 minutes or less as I can’t tolerate the mask for any longer than that. If I’m “complying” with my protest mask and anyone dares call me out, I will get very bitchy and nasty. Maybe try a protest mask so you can make a statement?

70171 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #757 of 1806 🔗

Get a lanyard: no mask, no visor, no abuse.

70223 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #758 of 1806 🔗

Better still, get a lanyard and keep it in your pocket!

70176 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Country Mumkin, 17, #759 of 1806 🔗

Or alternatively shop somewhere else. Waitrose is the preferred supermarket of the sanctimonious, virtue signalling bedwetters

70256 ▶▶▶ fiery, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #760 of 1806 🔗

I’d second this after a confrontation in Waitrose a few weeks ago where a nappy wearer admonished me simply for being a metre away from him without a mask. The problem is this is the worst supermarket for people fannying about and taking ages to choose something. They even pack their shopping at the check out in slow motion and wait for the last item to be rung through before taking an eternity purse fumbling. Someone really needs to tell them they do actually have to pay for their shopping.

70193 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #761 of 1806 🔗

The visor is much less unpleasant and I like my clip-on design made out of an old 2l pop bottle (just cut the top and bottom off and cut it down one side). At least it’s reusable, recycled, you can breathe, people can see your face, it looks merely ridiculous rather than like something horrible out of Dr Who, and in the unlikely event that you were shedding deadly virus it would actually stop all the droplets.

I tried it once before the law and once afterwards but didn’t bother the last time. Whatever small effect I’m having people are more likely to follow the example of wearing nothing.

70206 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #762 of 1806 🔗

I wonder if you have seen this? Waitrose should be protecting those who don’t wear a mask.

Page 2 (bottom) and page 3: “You are required to control the behaviour of your other customers”

http://www.laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf

70145 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 27, #763 of 1806 🔗

Lots to report today. Started a post this morning at the airport but didn’t have time to send it.

Large holiday airport, virtually empty and very dystopian. We flew through security ( no pun intended) where usually it would take a twenty-five minute shuffle. Lots of franchises closed and every other seat taped off. On taxiing out and take off, we counted just four planes at bridges or on the tarmac. This airport has 26 gates and at this time of year planes would be queuing to take off and land.

On mask wearing. It is compulsory virtually everywhere in the Spanish region we visited, except around pools or on the beach or in the countryside. I think I’ve said before, social distancing was easy away from the beach-you practically needed a telescope to spot the nearest person in the resort. In total I think we wore a mask for a total of about an hour-five minutes in a shop here, two minutes on a street there etc. Yes we did have lanyards and kept an eye out for the police but no one questioned us or gave us funny looks at all.

Back to Manchester. Airport eerily quiet. From landing, picking up our luggage, going through border control and collecting our car from the hotel, just thirty minutes. Try doing that on a normal July day. Pleasant lad at border control looked at our passports and health check form. He commented that a number of people arriving back from Spain had commented, like us, that they were safer out there than in the U.K. and just told us to self isolate as best we could.

Quick call at the Co-Op for cash and milk, maskless of course. No one batted an eyelid.

Email from MP arrived today. I am really making him earn his money. I had asked to see the Department of Transport’s risk assessment on wearing of masks for long periods of time. He sent me the reply from Kelly Tolhurst, the minister for aviation, maritime and security. As you would expect, it didn’t answer my question but referred instead to the efficacy of mask wearing and the government following the science-that’s not what I asked. I want them to provide a risk assessment on the health and safety aspects of wearing masks for long periods eg the dangers of fainting, hypoxia, skin rashes etc. Am I being too optimistic? Anyway yet another email sent to my MP. I bet he wishes that I’d voted for the other party!

70289 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Margaret, 1, #764 of 1806 🔗

I was thinking the same thing – keep annoying my MP with emails. Only sent 2 so far.

70450 ▶▶▶ EllGee, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, #765 of 1806 🔗

Been sending every week and this week, for the first time, he’s ringing me back

70317 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Margaret, 1, #766 of 1806 🔗

All the MPs seem to be working from a script, deliberately refusing to answer the question about a risk assessment.

From yesterday’s UK Column News:

https://youtu.be/ffc_642Lao8?t=618

If a risk assessment has been carried out and the results were made public, the mandates on mask-wearing would be indefensible.

70147 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 10, #767 of 1806 🔗

From Daily Telegraph live feed (my emphasis):

Spain reports largest daily case rise since lockdown easing

Spain has reported 1,229 new coronavirus infections, topping 1,000 for the second day in a row and marking the biggest rise since a national lockdown was lifted on June 21, health ministry data showed.

The cumulative total rose to 285,430.

That figure was up 2,789 on the previous day and includes results from antibody tests on people who may have already recovered.

BTW – five deaths (with) coronavirus in Spain yesterday.

70151 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, #768 of 1806 🔗

Do we know many of those were antibodies?

70158 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to DRW, #769 of 1806 🔗

That data wasn’t given in The Telegraph, but it might be here:

https://cnecovid.isciii.es/covid19/

I had a quick look, but it’s in Spanish, so I was a bit lost 🙂

70148 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 26, #770 of 1806 🔗

All GP consultations should be done remotely by default unless there is a reason a patient needs to be seen in person, Matt Hancock has said in a speech setting out what he sees as the lessons for the NHS and care sector from the coronavirus pandemic.

The health secretary’s proposal prompted concern from the Royal College of GPs (RCGP), which said it would oppose a predominantly online system, saying both doctors and patients benefitted from proper contact.

Addressing the Royal College of Physicians in London, Hancock argued that while some errors were inevitably made, “so many things went right” in the response to Covid-19, and new ways of working forged in the crisis should continue.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/30/all-gp-consultations-should-be-remote-by-default-says-matt-hancock-nhs

BASTARD!!!!

70150 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 24, #771 of 1806 🔗

He is a menace to society. I really mean that!

70156 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #772 of 1806 🔗

Bastard is too polite

70159 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #773 of 1806 🔗

Great!

My mother’s been forced to go private today thanks to the utterly inept remote consultation she had with her GP two weeks ago (she’s still in agony after completing a prescription of ineffective antibiotics). Maybe that’s the whole point of his twisted plans?

But what happens to the most of us who can’t afford that privilege?

70203 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #774 of 1806 🔗

I think Toby’s picture of the Etonians says it all. Us and them!

70219 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #775 of 1806 🔗

A friend of ours had to finally go private after his GP point blank refused to give him a face to face appointment and said the problem could be dealt with by sending him a description and photos by email !.
I’ve always thought it was a strange coincidence how all the surgeries in my area went over to the new online system,seemingly out of the blue,in January and February this year,handily just in time for the p(l)andemic.

70160 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 22, #776 of 1806 🔗

The main lesson seems to be that dealing with sick people is a pain, so better to try not to – close GP’s surgeries, A&Es, cancel operations and checkups, send people with covid into care homes to infect others. We got a text saying they are not going to do blood pressure checks any more so we can buy our own blood pressure monitor. Is this a new way to protect the NHS, by making sure they don’t need to do any work?

70177 ▶▶▶ Steeve, replying to Julian, #777 of 1806 🔗

I think that ‘Basil the Ghost’ would make it into the Doctors!

70214 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Julian, 4, #778 of 1806 🔗

Because we all know what tge BP readings mean and what to do about them, of course.

I am seriously, seriously starting to regret voting for Boris. Should have voted Labour and got it over with.

70389 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lms23, 3, #779 of 1806 🔗

” I am seriously, seriously starting to regret voting for Boris.

Mmmm …. I can quite understand why you might not have voted Labour, LibDem … or whatever. That’s politics; that’s political preference.

But what you got with Johnson was clearly written on the tin : an over-privileged, self-serving, lying narcissist, full of blathering wind, and little else – except an inability to keep his zipper up, and a willingness to throw away money on brainlessly expensive projects.

When you placed your cross, that was what you bought. It really wasn’t a secret. It was always part of the deal.

70274 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Julian, 3, #780 of 1806 🔗

it has always been understood that the NHS would work brilliantly if there weren’t any patients.

70161 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #781 of 1806 🔗

I didn’t think it was possible to hate him any more than I already did… but it seems that it is.

Thank f* the RCGP are opposing it at least, for all the good it will do.

70164 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #782 of 1806 🔗

“so many things went right” in the response to Covid-19,”

Can anyone honestly name a single one?

70174 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mark, 7, #783 of 1806 🔗

The government’s total incompetence has been highlighted?

70180 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 4, #784 of 1806 🔗

The herd immunity strategy seems to have worked quite well.

70383 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 1, #785 of 1806 🔗

LOL! Touche!

70194 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #786 of 1806 🔗

Depends which agenda you’re following …..

70165 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #787 of 1806 🔗

Normally I don’t approve of organised violence in order to solve problems but….

Yeah. Assassinate.

70172 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Farinances, 20, #788 of 1806 🔗

I won’t uptick that, I won’t uptick that, I won’t uptick that… I’m a humanist, I’m a humanist, I’m a humanist…

Fuck it,

Upticked.

70185 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 14, #789 of 1806 🔗

So many things went right?
For Fascist bastards, certainly.
Nauseating little shit.
Hope his doctor stays remote when he needs one.

70305 ▶▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to annie, 1, #790 of 1806 🔗

Let’s hope that’s very, very soon.

70188 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #791 of 1806 🔗

Blimey, life is turning into an X-rated Horror, with no escape looking possible!

70208 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #792 of 1806 🔗

Some errors?? 20,000++ errors?
The RCP should tell him to take a running jump off a very long pier.

70226 ▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #793 of 1806 🔗

It is just incredible.
The fact is that many or most GP appointments are unnecessary. A pharmacist could do most of it, and anything difficult needs a specialist. But it is slightly odd that the GP’s are now going out of their way to demonstrate the point.

70233 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 1, #794 of 1806 🔗

The fact is that many or most GP appointments are unnecessary. ” Possibly. Have the government done exhaustive studies to demonstrate this, and an impact assessment of this new policy which shows that specific groups will not be adversely affected by this (e.g. the elderly)? And instead of mandating it, why not just encourage it, to start with? I’d be happy to do so when I felt it would work, others may not be. Hard to believe that a doctor can spot the same things over the phone as in person. And it’s an interesting time to announce it. Who would determine whether a patient needs to be seen in person?

70149 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 25, #795 of 1806 🔗

Just back from the supermarket, Morrisons but different store from my usual. A handful of fellow non maskers. No chat to the young chap on the till although he seemed happy enough probably as he wasn’t wearing a mask.

I was packing my shopping adjacent to the cafe. It is really a wonderfully intelligent virus as it knows who is shopping and who is eating their dinner, how does it decide who to infect, shopper, diner, shopper, diner, ip dip dog shit……

70162 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to stefarm, 2, #796 of 1806 🔗

Especially that scientists are not sure whether a virus is living or non living!

70184 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Steeve, 2, #797 of 1806 🔗

Well, sort of – but that is just semantics.

70154 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 18, #798 of 1806 🔗

The BBC stirring up again, Prime interview time given to the sister of a lady who died from CV (allegedly). The usual rant, with no challenge or alternative views, about how we should have locked down earlier and harder.

70166 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Hammer Onats, 3, #799 of 1806 🔗

That seems to be the only line of opposition. The whole lot of them could well be left with egg on their faces. And in their ears, up their noses, down their shirtfronts…

70224 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #800 of 1806 🔗

Our public guardians don’t do accountability. When this is over, they will be on to the next topic of hysteria.

70283 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to Hammer Onats, #801 of 1806 🔗

And of course she’s got proof that an earlier lockdown would have saved her sister’s life….

70163 Cheezilla, #802 of 1806 🔗

Up to 150,000 people with no symptoms could be screened for Covid-19 every day in an attempt to stop symptomless spreading and cut quarantine for holidaymakers .

New plans from NHS Test and Trace commit to a mass expansion of testing by September in an attempt to fend off a second wave of coronavirus.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/30/plan-test-150000-symptomless-people-day-could-cut-coronavirus/

…. It came as the Government changed its advice on Thursday, meaning anyone with a cough, fever or loss of sense of smell or taste will be told to stay at home for 10 days rather than seven .
Health officials said those found to be negative will be freed from their confinement [!!!] unless symptoms continue.

…. The latest figures from the Department of Health and Social Care, for the week ending July 22, show that 25 per cent of people who came into close contact with someone infected with coronavirus could not be reached by the service and asked to self-isolate. This was up from 10 per cent when the service launched eight weeks ago.

…. The latest figures show that contact tracers are finding it harder to reach family members of those with Covid-19 than to reach those outside their households. The figures reveal that the service is reaching reaching 57 per cent of household contacts, compared with 68 per cent of those outside the home.

People are not as daft as they seem, evidently!

70178 Alan Billingsley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 20, #803 of 1806 🔗

Went to the local supermarket today without a mask and for the first 20 minutes all I saw was masks.Then saw two young lads without masks and then two women and that was it. No one questioned me, everyone was polite, maybe I saw some envious glances. Hopefully! Maybe if we continue to shop without masks it will encourage others to discard theirs. Hopefully!

70189 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Alan Billingsley, 8, #804 of 1806 🔗

That’s the plan.

70187 Cheezilla, 13, #805 of 1806 🔗

Went to my favourite tiny cafe for lunch this afternoon. The owner was a lot more laid back this week, I’m happy to say.

The weirdest thing was passing the sandwich shop, where people were queuing outside with nappies already in place.

One or two people came into the cafe for takeaway wearing masks. One youngish woman dressed in black, slightly rocker-style gear, was wearing a pink and blue Kath Kidson muzzle. To say she looked ridiculous would be to put it mildly.

Unfortunately, the plastic sheets between tables stop air from circulating properly and, despite two ceiling fans, an extractor and the door being open, it got a bit sticky in our corner.

In the end, my friend and I came home and sat in the garden with a cuppa.

70209 Will, 17, #806 of 1806 🔗

My last trip to Tesco today until this dreadful, unhygienic face nappy business is over. Lots of fat, sweaty people pawing at their panty lined, greasy faces. I will be going online, that Bezos has decided to get into a price war over delivering which means Tesco are losing money on every drop off is a bonus. What has this country become…

70212 Ben Shirley, 9, #807 of 1806 🔗

Too much time on my hands this afternoon so I’ve given you something to sing in the shower… At least the last verse didn’t need much changing. Apologies to John Brunner.

Don’t you feel the lockdown’s terror
Sending shivers down your bones?
Out in public you’re a leper
Don’t see friends, just stay at home
Do you want your children silenced,
Gagged and bound, afraid to speak?
Will you give tyranny a license
Just for false security?

Men and women, stand together
Do not heed medical war
Make your minds up now or never
Liberty for evermore

Curse our leaders and our gaolers
Make the whole wide world take heed
Unemployment, mass surveillance
Strikes at every race and creed
Must you make each home a dungeon?
Murder folk in your homeland?
Shall we cower by the truncheon
Or raise our voice and make a stand?

Men and women, stand together
Do not heed medical war
Make your minds up now or never
Liberty for evermore

Shall we lay the world in ruin?
Only you can make the choice
Stop and think of what you’re doing
Join the march and raise your voice
Time is short; we must be speedy
We can see the hungry filled
House the homeless, help the needy
Shall we kill, or shall we build?

Men and women, stand together
Do not heed medical war
Make your minds up now or never
Liberty for evermore

70213 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 21, #808 of 1806 🔗

Has anyone else got a bad feeling about what’s coming for us in the next few weeks?

It feels like the second wave is rapidly approaching, whether real or imagined. The way the govt and media are hyping it up feels just like it felt before lockdown, and before masks were made compulsory. I’m not sure if I (or my poor 6-year-old only child) can take another round of this… And if a second wave does arrive, or is manufactured, then surely they will never let us out, because we can’t possibly have a third wave, can we?

I’m feeling particularly despondent today after a trip to the local ice cream farm. It’s basically a shed in the middle of a field, but there was rope, and a lady on a chair in a visor (a visor! in the middle of a field!) insisting on taking contact details because it’s a “government requirement”. To have an ice cream in the middle of a field! Told her no thanks and left, there was a 30-minute wait to even get the things anyway because of having to social distance in the shed – only one person allowed inside at any one time (but must still be wearing a mask), thus creating an enormous and unnecessary queue. Utter omnishambolic rubbish!!

70229 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 19, #809 of 1806 🔗

Any second wave in the UK is unlikely to be real or imagined. If we get one, it will be FABRICATED by manipulating testing, as Leicester was.

70308 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Julian, 1, #810 of 1806 🔗

That’s what worries me. We will have one either way, they’ll make sure of it.

70513 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Julian, #811 of 1806 🔗

If the Universities go back in January each of them will have a Second Wave which will, of course, be good old freshers flu.

70245 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #812 of 1806 🔗

2nd wave, 3rd wave, 4th wave, possibly no/low/temporary immunity, no (efficient) vaccine, Covid 20, 21, 22ff ditto, other zooviruses ditto….
Exit problems.
In light of all these risks and issues evident from the start, it should be clear to everyone acting in good faith with an IQ above 50 that these lockdowns never were a viable strategy to deal with them at any time.

70282 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #813 of 1806 🔗

Jeeezuz, that sounds so infuriating. I don’t envy you having a young child during this. How do you explain the weirdness of people? Who knew they were all so dumb. Stupid, stupid silly, gullible, medieval idiots. That’s how I explain it to my 15 year old!

70295 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Cruella, 1, #814 of 1806 🔗

“ medieval” exactly
It’s a second dark age
At least one 15 year old will be growing up with his head screwed on

70312 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cruella, 2, #815 of 1806 🔗

She’s too young to fully understand. We just tell her that some people are worried about a new virus, but that she doesn’t have to worry, and that things will be better soon (much as I’m not convinced they will be). She’s not worried about the virus at all, but was very bored and lonely during the worst of the lockdown. We kept seeing one friend who was also similarly sceptical, but no one else would even consider meeting up. Some still won’t!

70313 ▶▶ Albie, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #816 of 1806 🔗

I don’t know any more whether they, the media, are fabricating it or believe this second wave nonsense. If they believe it, they are absolutely willing it to happen. I found items on google search recently banging on about a second wave as far back as May. On and on and on and on they screech. They want it, whether as a reality or perceived reality, I don’t know.

70508 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #817 of 1806 🔗

Big Visor must be making a killing.

70216 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 16, #818 of 1806 🔗

I think there must be a certain amount of embarrassment and blame avoidance going on in public health circles. It seems quite clear to me that the unusual peak in mortality earlier this year was caused, not by an especially virulent bug, but by poor hygiene in hospitals, later spreading to some care homes. This brought forward the deaths of very elderly and frail, already at death’s door.
Now that wave has passed, the main lesson is to try to stop spreading diseases in hospitals. The whole thing can be understood by the need to try to prevent doctors, nurses and care assistants from catching the virus and infecting their patients.

70225 ▶▶ Julian, replying to WhyNow, 17, #819 of 1806 🔗

I don’t see much sign of embarrassment. Blame avoidance – sort of in so far as they will continue to push their narrative to cover up the mistakes, though there is little in the way of blame being attributed for the most egregious mistakes.

I don’t see much sign of wanting to genuinely learn lessons or implement changes either.

Mainly just doubling down on the nonsense, and pretending that the Great British Public can “beat” the virus with the help of HMG by wearing masks and going along with all the other rules that have little or no relevance to disease prevention.

70239 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 3, #820 of 1806 🔗

A deny everything culture.

70240 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Julian, 2, #821 of 1806 🔗

As I ‘ve said for a while now: IF they had initially acted in good faith, they are now just doubling down on their nonsense and any criticism to get away with it and avoid (too much/early/ blame, which also means that they are now acting in bad faith.
Unless they know of and prepare us for something really BIG, see Deep Impact.
Or, they acted in bad faith from the start, see the usual theories on that one, none of which is plausible to me though, yet.

70251 ▶▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #822 of 1806 🔗

Why do you think they changed the rules to make it possible for Covid to go on death certificates with no hard evidence if they were acting in good faith?

70293 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Martin Spencer, 2, #823 of 1806 🔗

I haven’t made up my mind on that yet.
All I am convinced about now is what I stated above.

I haven’t heard a plausible conspiracy theory yet that would support that they acted in bad faith from the start.
Even Big Pharma sees more losses and losers now than winners, and in the long run, they, as well as Bezos, Musk&co, will be just as toast as us, if we
are all bankrupt.

FWIW, I am more and more inclined to believe that an asteroid is gonna hit us, or so,
because their actions have now so obviously stopped to make any sense.

70326 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #824 of 1806 🔗

Yes I agree there was no conspiracy, it was all down to incompetence and a complete inability to link science to good political policy. As it is Covid now seems to routinely be put on death certificates, there was a fatal motorbike crash that got put down as Covid!

70336 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Steve Martindale, #825 of 1806 🔗

People in america are being shot…..

Yet dying of covid.

70346 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, #826 of 1806 🔗

The Magic Bullet.

70527 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Martin Spencer, 1, #827 of 1806 🔗

Perhaps initially they genuinely expected battlefield levels of mortality and needed to speed things up to get the corpses into the pits.

70516 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Jay Berger, #828 of 1806 🔗

‘Preparing us for something really BIG’
would be about the only thing that would excuse them for the last 4 months nonsense.

70550 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jay Berger, #829 of 1806 🔗

It sound plausible until you realise that nearly all the governments in the western world are marching in lockstep.Like they are following a manual or being told what to do

70238 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to WhyNow, 7, #830 of 1806 🔗

Personally, we need to separate general hospitalisations, eg for broken bones, from infectious disease hospitalisations. There’s nothing new in this, standard practice until the drive for fewer, but much larger, hospitals began in the 1960s.

70486 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Nick Rose, #831 of 1806 🔗

There’s an important point there. Mass hospitalisation is a recipe for disease transmission.

70531 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Nick Rose, #832 of 1806 🔗

That is what the Nightingale hospitals should have been for but the one near me is on two floors ie shared lifts and staircases = useless.
.

70257 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to WhyNow, #833 of 1806 🔗

“This brought forward the deaths of very elderly and frail, already at death’s door.”

That assumes it wasn’t intentional.
Same policy was carried out in Democrat-ruined cities in America.

70280 ▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to WhyNow, 3, #834 of 1806 🔗

“Poor hygiene in hospitals” – interesting. Back in 2004 I had a melanoma and had to go to the old Oxford Radcliffe Infirmary to have it removed. I distinctly remember the out patient toilets as being very clean. When that hospital was closed and the services transferred to the new West Wing at the John Radcliffe, I was quite chocked at how unclean the toilets were. I have also had to go more recently to that same West Wing for another health problem and honestly, you just don’t want to use some of the outpatient toilets there.

70222 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 16, #835 of 1806 🔗

Strange experience in a shop today. It is a small local food shop. There’s an entrance, and room for only one or two people at the counter. We normally wait outside if the shop is full.
I am in the shop. The staff are unmasked, I am unmasked. I am the only customer. In comes a family: father, mother, child, pushchair with another child. All masked. All totally ignoring any distancing, crowding around me.
There you have the unintended consequence. “I am wearing a mask so I don’t have to worry about normal hygiene”.

70236 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to WhyNow, 8, #836 of 1806 🔗

That’s the downside of PPE in general. People start taking greater risks because they are “protected”. In the present nonsense, the only things I have any time for is the encouragement to wash hands for longer and more often, and the (polite) social distancing with strangers. Though a handshake’s distance is enough in my view.

70281 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #837 of 1806 🔗

It’s known as risk-compensation, been plaguing the automotive industry for decades: safer cars lead to more reckless driving… And a reason why a lot of people are against PrEP HIV drugs.

70482 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to Nick Rose, #838 of 1806 🔗

Exactly. We have all had a good lesson in basic public hygiene. Don’t wipe your nose and then press the lift button. When on public transport, don’t touch the straps or the hand rails. Wash your hands after touching door handles. All good stuff, but not a reason to shut down all activity.

70227 DocRC, replying to DocRC, 74, #839 of 1806 🔗

Our esteemed Health Secretary has said that “ All GP consultations should be done remotely by default unless there is a reason a patient needs to be seen in person”

I now look after elite sportsmen but I used to be a GP. In the olden days I was taught that a Doctor should always put him/ herself in a position to make the correct diagnosis. The steps to achieve this were: 1. Take a history (ask questions of the patient) 2. Perform a physical examination. 3. Pertinent investigations (blood tests, x-rays, scans etc.). I found over the years that observing my patient would give me lots of clues about their physical and mental well-being. I was always uncomfortable about telephone triage because I couldn’t actually eyeball the patient. When I was a junior Doctor, one of my mentors, a senior Consultant taught me: “look at the patient, he is telling you the diagnosis.”

Not long into my GP career, at 6.30 pm one evening asking parents who rang to bring their 2 year old to the surgery. The child was a bit miserable and snotty but some instinct told me there was something amiss. I rang the on-call Paediatrician at the local hospital and asked him to see the child, telling him that I didn’t know why but I had a feeling that this was something more serious than just a cold. The child turned out to have meningitis. In Hancock’s vision for the new normal GP service that child would probably have died.

Hancock appears to have no clue about all this (as indeed he has no insight into the fact that Covid-19 has been and gone and he is still clinging to the wreckage of his misguided policies).

I’m not some sad old git saying it was better in my day. It was better in my day!

70231 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DocRC, 14, #840 of 1806 🔗

Hancock has no clue at all. He’s not known as the Duracell Bunny because of his smile, but because of his cloth ears with nowt but stuffing in between.

70235 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DocRC, 18, #841 of 1806 🔗

Hancock, like Boris, is dangerous. The former is drunk on the power. The latter is mentally unfit for the job. We are sleepwalking into a disaster.

Had it not been for a very experienced and alert GP many years ago, my husband might have been in the same position as the child you mention. He only just made it to the surgery. Doctor took one look at him, pushed his head down, chin to chest, then called the ambulance!

70254 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to DocRC, 14, #842 of 1806 🔗

Is that man truly insane? Does he not understand that WE, the tax-payer own NHS services not the government….I am so incensed I cannot think straight any more! Why Why Why is no one oppposing this stuff to their faces???? I work in mental health and have studied mental health and social work for a long long time and I know a delusional and bizarre thought process when I read/hear it! I am beside myself now!

70342 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Azoumi, 3, #843 of 1806 🔗

Calm down, dear. Remember: we are there to protect the NHS. We won’t do that if people ungratefully get ill and insist on bothering the doctors.

70373 ▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to annie, #844 of 1806 🔗

I know Annie, I know…but this is my visceral response to a narcissistic passive-aggressive personality process!

70332 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to DocRC, 2, #845 of 1806 🔗

I remember once my doctor (back when we each had our ‘own’ GP – Dr. Jones my guy!!) saying the difference in the correct diagnosis often comes down to the patient’s complexion. He needed to look at their skin and their face. He needed to *see how they physically reacted to a stimulus – like a pain test.

70341 ▶▶ annie, replying to DocRC, 1, #846 of 1806 🔗

You need to go back to the Middle Ages for a time when doctors seldom saw their patients, but sent for a flask of their urine, performed a diagnosis with the help of astrology, then prescribed purging and bleeding.
We’re about back to that.
Time to get out the herbal and consult the local Wise Woman.

70237 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 35, #847 of 1806 🔗

Why would anybody voluntarily get tested? What’s the point? What do they hope to achieve by getting tested?

If you’re asymptomatic and they say you’re “positive” You’ve technically got to self isolate then, for a virus that you have no symptoms for. If they say you’ve had it already then presumably you were either ill at some point, in which case you already knew, or you had no symptoms in which case finding out you had something you had no symptoms for is utterly pointless. If you haven’t got it then unless you get re-tested every hour of every day then as soon as you get that test result it’s obsolete.

These people getting tested probably still think they are getting accurately tested for covid. They’d be shocked to find out they are getting tested for fuck all, but that’s another issue.

70244 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to Hubes, 9, #848 of 1806 🔗

I would only agree to a test if I was very sick in hospital when the treatment would be very different for Covid or non-Covid. Otherwise, as you say, what idiot would want a test?

70273 ▶▶▶ Proudtobeapeasant, replying to DocRC, 1, #849 of 1806 🔗

My husband works in a food distribution warehouse and I know that workers there who have symptoms are told to go and get tested. I don’t know what would happen if anyone refused….

70276 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #850 of 1806 🔗

Of those who did go and get tested, how many get positive returns from those tests, or let me guess, they’re wearing masks and getting influenza-like symptoms?

70277 ▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Proudtobeapeasant, 1, #851 of 1806 🔗

Yes, they will be employed people that are obliged to get swabbed.

70354 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to DocRC, 1, #852 of 1806 🔗

Probably the same people who happily stick a mask on to go and get a bottle of milk in an empty shop

70246 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Hubes, 1, #853 of 1806 🔗

Maybe if you’re vulnerable or think you are, an antibody test, so that if you find out you’ve had it you worry less?
Or if you’re not vulnerable, an antibody test to show you’ve had it so that if you in the future have a cough or something then you know it’s probably not covid.
Otherwise I agree.

70265 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Hubes, 10, #854 of 1806 🔗

Exactly, I just don’t get people.

I dunno how long it’s gonna take for them to realise this all ends when nobody gets tested.

70351 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to Farinances, 3, #855 of 1806 🔗

I think we’re sadly at the point now where even if we had no cases and no deaths for 2 months or so it wouldn’t make any difference. The inept government and the scumbag media would just be constantly saying “we’ve still got to be careful, it could come back at any time, we can’t go back to normal”

I don’t know how this ends now. I thought in March it would be well over by now, but it’s just going on and on, more and more ridiculous bullshit everyday.

70267 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Hubes, 1, #856 of 1806 🔗

i agree unless people are in environments affecting others then fair enough to test. But for many who are living alone and working from home why would you get tested? If i got a cough i would stay indoors but wouldn’t go and test. If you’re positive all they’ll say is go home and self isolate well we know that! If I got serious illness then I’d go to A&E

70286 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Hubes, 3, #857 of 1806 🔗

Indeed, in theory testing should be helpful but in practise it is just another stick being used to beat us all down.

70329 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #858 of 1806 🔗

Towards the beginning of this farce, I remember Jenny Harries saying “we don’t need to test the general public, testing needs to he applied strategically in targeted environments like they are doing in Korea.”

Yeah. They changed their tune v quickly when they realised they’d tanked the economy for a common cold.

70366 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #859 of 1806 🔗

Testing would be useful if it diagnosed anything useful. But it doesn’t.

70299 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Hubes, 1, #860 of 1806 🔗

From what I see of most people, it’s so they can brag about it on social media.

70241 RyanM, replying to RyanM, 2, #861 of 1806 🔗

On that graph, you need to have the lines for “implement lockdown,” and “introduce mandatory masking.”

70272 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to RyanM, 1, #862 of 1806 🔗

As well as “Ferguson started breaking the quarantine rule to shag” and “Ferguson’s breaking of quarantine eventually mentioned by the media”

70253 Lms23, 3, #863 of 1806 🔗

(Link copied from another poster earlier today)
https://www.activistpost.com/2020/07/covid19-the-great-reset-the-new-normal.html

COVID19, The Great Reset & The New Normal
“nations around the world are using COVID-19 as an opportunity to grab more surveillance and police state powers, institute mask and vaccine mandates, accelerate the push towards a completely digital world, enact more corporate bailouts, and generally, extreme control and involvement in citizens lives….
….The launch of The Great Reset was supported by Klaus Schwab, the founder and executive chairman of the World Economic Forum; England’s Prince Charles; Antonio Guterres, Secretary-General of the UN; and Kristalina Georgieva of the International Monetary Fund. The kick-off was truly an international event with the participation of Ma Jun, the chairman of the Green Finance Committee at the China Society for Finance and Banking and a member of the Monetary Policy Committee of the People’s Bank of China. The event was also supported by Bernard Looney, CEO of BP; Ajay Banga, CEO of Mastercard; and Bradford Smith, president of Microsoft.”

Glenn Beck: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SlU2Z6AUkg0
CONNECTED: How a global plan to RESET economy, Netflix shows & sports are targeting your kids

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xcLAANtlgkE
The World Economic Forum plan to RESET economy away from capitalism after COVID-19

70260 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 20, #864 of 1806 🔗

The problem with Britons, including you lockdownsceptics here, is that you are genetically paranoid about apportioning and receiving blame, and abive all about seeing to be acting conspicuously.
I actually ENJOYED my maskless shopping today, and in particular the resulting subconscious provocation of it to the sheep.

In addition, you/we (sofar) have NOTHING to fear here doing so, because of the self certification avenue open to us.
This is very different to other countries, where many more people are compliant just because the conditions for exemptions are much more strict AND regulated.
If these countries had the lax UK guidance instead, my hunch is that compliance would be 50/50 at most.

So, WTF are you afraid of?!
We are also on the right side of science, liberty, democracy and eventually, history!

70262 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #865 of 1806 🔗

I think you’re right. Be interested to know what compliance is like in say, Italy (maybe an extreme example- ’emotional’ is not the word lol). Even with tighter punishment and regulation I imagine they’re really not down with this shit. Well, at least half of them aren’t.

70263 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 3, #866 of 1806 🔗

But hey — they had fascism!!

70623 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, #867 of 1806 🔗

At least half of them didn’t like that either.

70294 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #868 of 1806 🔗

Yes, I’m sure you’re correct – v easy here in the UK.

And yes, muzzle-less shopping is good fun. I don’t know why more people don’t try it!

70316 ▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to TJN, 3, #869 of 1806 🔗

I kept getting alternating urges to laugh and go Baaaaa!

70466 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Martin Spencer, #870 of 1806 🔗

Glad it’s not just me, the laughing thing. So many masks look so daft it’s not true. 🙂

70297 ▶▶ Kelly deacons, replying to Jay Berger, 8, #871 of 1806 🔗

I now have 4 maskless supermarket shopping expeditions under my belt.2 x morrisons, 2 x Asda…….I look other masked shoppers boldly in the face,so far,no problems.

70327 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Kelly deacons, 1, #872 of 1806 🔗

Look out for the masked who try and pretend they haven’t seen you and act like you’re not really there !,bizarre.

70328 ▶▶▶ Kathryn, replying to Kelly deacons, 1, #873 of 1806 🔗

Ha ha, yes off to try out Sainsbury’s maskless tomorrow – looking forward to it!

70338 ▶▶ annie, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #874 of 1806 🔗

Quite right, let’s brace up.
Thousands of people here in West Wales have just enjoyed a beautiful sunny day.
Cheers.

70357 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #875 of 1806 🔗

Not all of us – I’ve yet to wear a mask and no intention of ever doing so. Nor any permit of any kind. And as you say, it’s quite a good feeling to be the only unmasked free man in a shop full of face-nappied clones.

70365 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #876 of 1806 🔗

It’s been argued that Brits (Englishmen in particular) tend to be more law abiding because historically we’ve had fewer laws, so we were more likely to take seriously those we have.

To the extent it might have been true, it was a real asset, which is squandered by politicians who make petty, stupid laws without real need for them. Stupid laws reduce respect for the law in general.

70468 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 1, #877 of 1806 🔗

The more tyrannical the government, the more numerous the laws.

70269 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 16, #878 of 1806 🔗

OK, I know it’s the Daily Fail and even worse Janet Street Porter but she does say some very sensible things:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576889/When-did-policy-flattening-curve-ruin-lives.html?ito=email_share_article_bottom

”Talk of a ‘second wave sweeping Europe’ isn’t a line from Dad’s Army halfwits but the latest pronouncement from the confused chaps in mission control”

70321 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Margaret, 4, #879 of 1806 🔗

It’s a good article, and will hopefully chime with a certain audience. Every little helps!

70337 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #880 of 1806 🔗

There was a time when I loathed J S-P.
Tempora mutantur…

70361 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to annie, #881 of 1806 🔗

She had a special place on City trading floors in the 80s and 90s. Dealers would ask for the price of a Janet of X,Y or Z shares. Janet Street Porter being a Quarter (250k) in Cockney rhyming slang!

70278 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 36, #882 of 1806 🔗

Simon Dolan seems to be getting lots of NHS workers coming forward with the truth about the lack of corona virus cases, but anonymously. If it was possible to get them to speak in parliament with some sort of legal cover to stop them being fired, that would end this nonsense,.

70285 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Stephen McMurray, 9, #883 of 1806 🔗

What’s the link for this please? – I know someone who would gladly spill beans under cover of anonymity (they’ve been ‘muzzled’ with threats of dismissal if they speak publicly about their experiences the last few months).

70307 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #884 of 1806 🔗

He reads direct messages sent to him on twitter:
https://mobile.twitter.com/simondolan

70413 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to James007, #885 of 1806 🔗

Thanks!

70512 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Stephen McMurray, 2, #886 of 1806 🔗

The problem is that as long as it’s anonymous it’s worth jack! Until someone actually has the balls to come forward nothing will ever change, and most Doctors and Consultants with their £100k-£1 million salaries aren’t going to risk all that as they will never work again.

70311 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #887 of 1806 🔗

More ‘do as I say not as I do’ – not much social distancing there:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576485/Boris-Johnson-warns-UK-not-woods-coronavirus-crisis.html

But at least they have their hair covered!

70320 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 12, #888 of 1806 🔗

What he means when he says we’re not out of the woods yet is he and his merry men haven’t completely made sure nobody ever realises what they’ve done.

70325 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Farinances, 10, #889 of 1806 🔗

Yes, agree. However, I’m not sure there will be many places to hide when the inevitable catches up with him, Hancock and the rest of them. More people are starting to wake up, and once we get through the better weather and head towards autumn, there will only be one wave – anger!

70462 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #890 of 1806 🔗

At least there’s a small moment of lucidity in there:

Labour MP Chris Bryant today called for ministers to calm down, saying ‘we need a stiletto not a sledgehammer’ to tackle clusters of coronavirus. He said: ‘It makes me so angry the government are so loose with their language. There isn’t a second wave rolling out across Europe. There are worrying signs of individual spikes of increased infection in some areas.’

Top scientists today admitted it is unlikely the coronavirus will ever be eradicated, saying it could be around for decades and infect people ‘multiple times over their life span’. Critics argued that Britain needs to ‘learn to live with it’ because the virus is going to keep spreading.

More importantly, what are Johnson, Sunak, Patel et al. doing twatting about with gin and motorbikes when we’re about to be swamped by a second wave? And why hasn’t anyone noticed that they aren’t able to follow their own social distancing bollocks?

70323 Hugh, replying to Hugh, 46, #891 of 1806 🔗

It was lovely at my “secret” prayer group (somewhere in the North of England…) last night, with 20 odd of us in the meeting room, no bits of tape, no one-way systems, hand shakes, hugs, and not a muzzle in site. Say what you want about the Church, but they know how to take a stand when they want to! It was like another world – the real world, and I worry about the psychological damage people being inflicted on millions of people by being prevented for many months from engaging in natural human behaviour with family and friends. Then there’s those heart breaking tales of people in the final stages of life unable to see their family, to say nothing of the hundreds of thousands of children world wide who will starve to death as a result of lockdowns, and the 2,700 a week dying from lockdown measures in this country. It’s horrendous, it really is.

70334 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hugh, 6, #892 of 1806 🔗

Wish I could join you. Pray for us all.

70356 ▶▶▶ Hugh, replying to annie, 3, #893 of 1806 🔗

Thank you. Will do :}

70353 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Hugh, 10, #894 of 1806 🔗

I’m not an overly religious person but honestly, God bless you all! Truly. Please, next time you go, tell them all how much I appreciate you all doing that. And like Annie said, please do pray for us all, we need it. You’ve inspired me, I think I need to offer this madness up before I kill someone. Forgive them, they know not what they do rings a bit hollow when I suspect they very much bloody well do! Deliver us from Evil is perhaps more apt.

I shouldn’t be flippant, honestly, thanks, your post has really cheered me up.

70376 ▶▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to BecJT, 2, #895 of 1806 🔗

Allow me to add this stunning address by Alexander Solzhenitsyn:

https://www.pravoslavie.ru/47643.html

Says it all, really.

70503 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Gracie Knoll, #896 of 1806 🔗

Wherever there is godlessness, tyranny follows. Very true.

70653 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to BecJT, 1, #897 of 1806 🔗

Some of us are atheists and don’t support this tyranny.

70362 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to Hugh, 4, #898 of 1806 🔗

That seems a world away from my visit to the synagogue on opening Friday. The rabbi was wearing a plastic visor and was behind a perspex screen at all times. There was no need for social distancing or the one-way system marked out with black and yellow tape, so sparse were the pews. I haven’t been back since and it’ll be a while before I do.

70394 ▶▶ Will, replying to Hugh, 13, #899 of 1806 🔗

I am not religious, but find the idea of yourself and your community praying, in secret, profoundly moving.

70502 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Will, 2, #900 of 1806 🔗

Me too. It’s given me hope. The truth, the way and the light and all that, that’s what we spend all our days discussing here, it’s all the same thing really, good people joined together in truth, I don’t think God is much more complicated than that.

70622 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Will, #901 of 1806 🔗

Many great religious movements started that way. Including Christianity itself.
I can well imagine secret groups meeting in upper rooms to conduct maskless services and sing hymns, very softly for fear of the gestapo and the mob.

70409 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to Hugh, 4, #902 of 1806 🔗

Well done. It’s nice that there are some real Christians still around, i.e. ones who follow the word of the Bible, inclusive of Job and Ecclesiastes, and know the virus would be nothing to fear even if it were ten times as potent.

70412 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Hugh, 2, #903 of 1806 🔗

Good on you.

70416 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Hugh, 6, #904 of 1806 🔗

The last time people had to pray in secret to avoid state sanctions was in the 1600s. This government has dragged us back to the Middle Ages without a doubt.

70530 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tenchy, 1, #905 of 1806 🔗

‘Science’ is now back to pre-Galileian times.
The public back to pre-Enlightenment ones.
Business and unions act like those in 1930’s Germany.
As for governments and the media…

70562 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tenchy, #906 of 1806 🔗

What about Nazi Germany? Etc.

70525 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Hugh, 1, #907 of 1806 🔗

This is exactly what they fear, and the real reason for social distancing.

70345 Lisa from Toronto, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 6, #908 of 1806 🔗

So Ontario announced their plan to get kids back into schools and they’ve decided that mandatory face muzzles on children from grade 4 and up are the way they can “safely” resume learning and not bother with reducing class sizes, creating more space for classrooms, and hiring more teachers (which is what lots of parents and the union wanted). Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think they should do any of that nonsense distancing stuff either. But am I reading this right? Did our associate chief medical officer of health just admit that the tests are absolute rubbish??? You can’t make this stuff up.

Dr. Barbara Yaffe, Ontario’s associate chief medical officer of health, said there is no plan to implement regular, formal testing of teachers because it will “complicate the picture” if there are no known or suspected cases in the environment.

“I think a lot of people think that testing is going to really solve the whole problem and it isn’t,” Dr. Yaffe said. “It’s one component of a response.”

“If you’re testing in a population that doesn’t have very much COVID, you’ll get false positives almost half the time…Testing will not actually achieve anything other than take resources away from other places they need to be.”

70350 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #909 of 1806 🔗

They just change the story about what’s effective from a public health point of view to fit the politics
They know masks are useless which is why they didn’t insist on them before
Now that the virus has largely gone, masks are a handy device to enable them to pretend there’s still a need to save us

70379 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Julian, 3, #910 of 1806 🔗

So the government asked our world-renowned Hospital for Sick Children some weeks ago to draft recommendations for opening schools in September. They recommended more frequent hand washing, some extra distance between kids’ desks, but no masking. The government basically pissed on the recommendations and started talking about some stupid hybrid model where kids come 2 or three days a week. Well that didn’t go over well. Parents began to demand kids be back in school 5 days a week. So yesterday I read the “revised” recommendations from the Hospital for Sick Children and there’s some BS about how some of the members of the committee thought masking was a good idea. Still a minority, but it was just enough for the government to use the “updated” report to mandate mask wearing for grades 4 – 12. Obviously they were under a great deal of political pressure and just enough of them caved in and gave the government the cover they needed. Just sickening.

70564 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #911 of 1806 🔗

I don’t understand. Where did the political pressure come from?

70535 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #912 of 1806 🔗

Dutch schools went back for a full month, no Covid measures, no mini-me classes, no I’ll effects.

70348 annie, replying to annie, 11, #913 of 1806 🔗

Just a thought, folks.
We have had contributors from the UK, Republic of Ireland, Canada, USA, Australia, Romania, France, Portugal, Germany, the Netherlands, and apologies to others I’ve missed.
Isn’t it time we re-named ourselves ‘lockdownscepticsinternational’?
If, in consequence, anybody wants anything translated I’m happy to offer my services free for the languages I can cover. (French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, German).

70384 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to annie, 5, #914 of 1806 🔗

Canada’s still part of the Commonwealth and I’ve got 2 grandparents who were born in the UK so I feel sufficiently British. I’ve been on this site so much I’ve started talking “British” (bollocks, gobsmacked, rubbish, etc.). But kidding aside, it’s a great idea!

70390 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #915 of 1806 🔗

What do Canadians say for bullocks, gobsmacked, and rubbish?

70396 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to annie, 2, #916 of 1806 🔗

bollocks = bullshit (but not in polite company)
gobsmacked = amazed, speechless (not nearly as fun as gobsmacked)
rubbish = garbage

70406 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #917 of 1806 🔗

Thanks!
Garbage,rubbish, trash, government – a new entry for Roget?

70429 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to annie, #918 of 1806 🔗

Hi all
I think it’s a great idea to name it international. I’ve been following this site for about fifteen days and for me it is a breeze of fresh air against the sheer evilness and stupidity that is going on. I’ve a son a and a daughter working and studying in London.
(first post from Lisbon Portugal)
Carl Vernon is a must too 🙂

70521 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to annie, #919 of 1806 🔗

Language is not the problem.
But international coordination and a uniform message certainly are.

70358 Mr Jim McGregor, #920 of 1806 🔗

The government seem to be winding the spring to enforce a second lockdown on a regional basis, and keep it rolling in order to justify the first. Wasn’t this called by someone close to government who knew that there would be a second lockdown months ago, and that there were plans in place for it? It WILL happen, and it seems it is already is beginning.

70359 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #921 of 1806 🔗

Hancock has just annouced many parts of UK will have a ban on different household meeting up indoors from midnight.

70367 ▶▶ Hammer Onats, replying to Basics, 21, #922 of 1806 🔗

I fear it is getting close to the time when direct action on the streets will be the only think that will bring this government to its senses.

70374 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Hammer Onats, 16, #923 of 1806 🔗

I agree we need to get out protesting (like this Saturday in Hyde Park, London) but until the unemployment kicks in and furlough ends I get the impression that most people are happy to go along with everything the government does, especially if the weather is nice. One day they will wake up and realise we have mass unemployment and poverty.

70460 ▶▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Darryl, #924 of 1806 🔗

Protests? Where have you been,no one will go,no one will report it and nothing will change. The streets are silent every morning when I set out to work and have been for weeks. The furloughed are LOVING this, they don’t want it to end. When the money stops then they’ll suddenly discover how much they like work again. Lazy, shuffling,dodging bastards, they deserve this, they’ve lapped it up,complied and perpetuated it.

70518 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Darryl, #925 of 1806 🔗

Exactly.
Same on the continent.
I guess we see action in the US first, and that that is the real reason why unemployment topups haven’t been prolonged in the US- at last a smart move by DJT.
It is staggering to witness how complacent and ignorant average folk still are with regard to their own upcoming disastrous financial and unemployment situation, and how supportive of the restrictions they still are because of that.
It will change when they join the ranks of the have-nots of have-no-mores, and start to fight the still-haves.

70439 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Hammer Onats, 2, #926 of 1806 🔗

On that point of direct action. It is clearly one possible outcome of this. Are they deliberately leading us there? It is very clear these actions are not reasonable leadership. So, if they are drawing us out to 2020 style ‘peacefully’ protest what do they want to achieve? I suggest they would like mass protests and riots to give them excuse to put in place permanent yet more laws of control. Peace keepers on the streets is the stuff of fiction but how far off is that really.

70371 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to Basics, 23, #927 of 1806 🔗

Most people ignored that bullshit first time round, everybody will ignore it now. He’s insane. He needs sectioning.

70415 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to Hubes, 7, #928 of 1806 🔗

Exactly I mean does anyone take any notice of this crap , if they do they must be insane

70422 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Hubes, 5, #929 of 1806 🔗

I hopes so. He is insane and dangerous!

70375 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, 1, #930 of 1806 🔗

And if your were on holiday in spain youve been told to leave spain (including islands) and return home immediately.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/jet2-spain-holidaymakers-told-come-18691377

70378 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Basics, 4, #931 of 1806 🔗

ludicrous!

70381 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Basics, 12, #932 of 1806 🔗

OMG! I am speechless! This utter utter madness…and my daughter and grandchildren live in Bradford! They both had their final school year screwed by this f****** mess!

70410 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Basics, 8, #933 of 1806 🔗

Just ignore ! Simples

70536 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Nic, 1, #934 of 1806 🔗

On private easy but in the public realm it is a lot harder

70414 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 5, #935 of 1806 🔗

What Hand-cock says is one thing. Whether people are dim enough to obey is another… therein lies the separation of the inhuman and human. Between slavery and liberty. Between ‘Three bags full, sir’ and F. OFF!

70485 ▶▶ James007, replying to Basics, 3, #936 of 1806 🔗

I wish we could start sorting this out by having a ban on Hancock.

70537 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #937 of 1806 🔗

Flashmob somewhere with lots of cameras, Harrods perhaps, 300 customers spontaneously rip their masks off and put them in the bin, or Hyde Park and burn them.

70566 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, 1, #938 of 1806 🔗

This guy Hancock is devious and seriously deranged. Imagine spending your days thinking of new ways to tell people how to live? He’s lovin’ it!

70360 DressageRider, 3, #939 of 1806 🔗

Breaking news, Lockdown extended in parts of Northern England, on BBC just now.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/england

70369 Poppy, replying to Poppy, 46, #940 of 1806 🔗

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53602362

‘Virus lockdown tightened for separate households meeting indoors in Greater Manchester, east Lancashire and parts of West Yorkshire’

Another local lockdown. My heart is sinking like a stone. We are being governed by some truly psychotic bastards. It’s almost as if they are enjoying arbitrarily ruining people’s lives. Bet they’ll work their way around the country like some toxic fucking bucket list.

Is anyone else feeling like the worst is yet to come? All this talk of second wave bullshit, reintroducing lockdowns and rising ‘cases’. I was just starting to feel optimistic again and like we were finally dragging ourselves out of this hell but I’m starting to get really depressed again. I feel like I can’t make any future plans or look forward to anything because it could be snatched away on a whim. I get extremely angry a lot of the time at what they’re doing to our country and its people and I know such anger is bad for my health. One of the only things keeping me going is that I want to see these horrible, despicable excuses for human beings – our ‘leaders’ – eventually brought to justice for their actions.

70380 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Poppy, 21, #941 of 1806 🔗

The UK public really deserve poverty if they fall for the lockdown narrative again, it has been completely discredited. I agree many of our leaders must be psychopaths to continue using such inhumane policies.

70382 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 9, #942 of 1806 🔗

‘Banned’ it’s a word from childhood. It’s up there with ‘out of bounds’.

Better get enforcing it cops – if it’s got any law behind it.

70395 ▶▶ annie, replying to Poppy, 6, #943 of 1806 🔗

Brought to justice? They will be.

70399 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Poppy, 5, #944 of 1806 🔗

Have you noticed there are no Local Lockdowns down South?

70411 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mr Dee, 10, #945 of 1806 🔗

Possibly targeting poor and ethnic communities. Divide and Rule tactics? maybe a cheap way of setting an example for other parts of the country to keep the fear level high.

70425 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Darryl, 6, #946 of 1806 🔗

And with no political fallout? Worth taking a look at how these affected regions voted last year.

70467 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Mr Dee, 4, #947 of 1806 🔗

The inner city areas seem to be Labour and unlikely to ever vote Conservative. Reintroducing restrictions seems politically suicidal if you are trying to restore confidence in the economy. It really looks like they are going for the complete global reset narrative by absolutely destroying the economy.

70524 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Darryl, 1, #948 of 1806 🔗

Maybe trying to provoke the Muslims and get a few riots to take our minds off our servitude.Get everyone at each other’s throats like the BLM diversion.
They are going for a scorched earth policy regarding the economy.I can’t see any other reason except the great reset.

70662 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #949 of 1806 🔗

I’ve thought for some time that their next provocation is likely to have some islam-focussed BLM-type disorder. Blame the minorities so that the hard-of-thinking don’t see that it is all lies.

70441 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #950 of 1806 🔗

They’re working up to it. The R number in the South West and South East is apparently now just over 1.

70401 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Poppy, 25, #951 of 1806 🔗

How are these scum getting away with it? In part, due to the propaganda from the BBC and other MSM elements. From the link above we have this statement (my emphasis):

On Thursday, a further 38 people in the UK died, bringing the total number of Covid-19 associated deaths to 45,999.
And 846 cases were reported – the highest number of cases in a day for a month.

Obligingly for the scum, the BBC omitted the fact that the number of tests being carried out on a daily basis continues to increase, and today reached 165,480, the highest for a fortnight and the fourth highest ever (bear in mind these tests won’t necessarily relate to the positive tests reported today).

I bet the areas that are about to be locked up again have recently seen a significant increase in testing. It beggars belief what’s going on here.

70431 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tenchy, 1, #952 of 1806 🔗

More “Leicester” theatrics- +% still ~0.5%.

70440 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 8, #953 of 1806 🔗

The figures are entirely bogus when you dig into them – the CEBM uncovered one such scam, but there are multifarious sources of misleading inflation.

We are clearly now into the phase of arse-covering, coupled with psychopathic Marvel Comic delusions about ‘battling’ with a virus.

But who is demanding the justification – the figures – and holding these twats to account? Not the oileaginous Starmer and crew, it seems. Not the Wee Krankie and the band of the Tartan Posture Party . Not ……

70451 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to RickH, 3, #954 of 1806 🔗

The books are so well cooked they now have to explain why the UK is the worst in Europe. Oh how we clapped out national treasure…

70465 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Basics, 4, #955 of 1806 🔗

You’re right. It is clapped out.

70469 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tenchy, 1, #956 of 1806 🔗

Oh, we’ve got a fucking big shiny testing centre alright, and another down the road.

70407 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Poppy, 8, #957 of 1806 🔗

To be fair just ignore it I mean unless they put road blocks up they cant stop.anyone going where they want,

70418 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nic, 8, #958 of 1806 🔗

They also seem to have deliberately “banned” the most unenforceable and invisible thing they could think of. How will anyone know or care if people are visiting each other in their homes more or less?

70452 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to guy153, 3, #959 of 1806 🔗

Is it about antagonism more than a black death mass killer?

Why, yes I believe it is!

70496 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Basics, #960 of 1806 🔗

I think it’s about saying they’re doing something and “beating” the virus while doing as little work as possible and having nothing to show for it.

Places like S Korea that are actually containing the virus go around doing (real) local lockdowns. This is a parody of that that doesn’t require anyone to actually do anything except make vapid pronouncements to the media.

70618 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to guy153, #961 of 1806 🔗

You want ‘real’ local lickdowns?

70721 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to annie, #962 of 1806 🔗

If we had real containment it would be a different debate. S. Korea has 301 deaths vs 50,000 or so in the UK. What frustrates me about the UK government is that we’re only doing any of this crap to hide their lies. But obviously it’s better for everyone that they at least do it as half-arsed as they think can get away with it, which is what they are doing.

So as long as they get headlines in the MSM saying they’re taking decisive action and controlling the spread they’re happy. People who live in Manchester (which is a long way away from the metropolitan elite and anyway it’s grim up North so who cares) should ignore it. However as Sam Vimes points out it’s not helpful and will encourage local tinpot Hitlers.

70473 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to guy153, 2, #963 of 1806 🔗

Wait til the local tinpot Hitlers exercise their tuppence worth of power.

70417 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Poppy, 11, #964 of 1806 🔗

Bastards. A couple of families at one side of a huge conurbation locks down the entire conurbation of hundreds of thousands of people.
High Asian populations and probably Labour councils.

Even worse is this bloody typical school prefect statement from Wankock:
“The spread is largely due to households meeting and not abiding to social distancing,” he said.

70421 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #965 of 1806 🔗

Sanctimonious bastard. Wasn’t he caught hugging a colleague in Westminster not many moons ago? Lock him down and up!

70447 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #966 of 1806 🔗

Yes! He came right up behind him and gave him a clap on the shoulder. He should be forced to apologise on national TV.

70430 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #967 of 1806 🔗

How does he know that? Was he there? Did he personally observe this? Where is his fekin evidence???

70445 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #968 of 1806 🔗

But all over the country households are meeting and not abiding to social distancing, aren’t they? So why is it only causing a problem in one part of the country?

He needs a good smacking. I’m not an evil or vindictive person usually, but I’d really like for him to get his come-uppance!

70474 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #969 of 1806 🔗

Andjust how the fuck do you measure that, ,Wancky?

70419 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Poppy, 5, #970 of 1806 🔗

Andy Burnham asking people to “obey”!

70427 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Basics, 5, #971 of 1806 🔗

I love seeing Her Majesty’s Most Loyal Opposition hard at work…

70442 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #972 of 1806 🔗

I’m speechless but appreciate your wit!

70453 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #973 of 1806 🔗

Seems we no longer have any form of elected government or opposition.

70463 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, 8, #974 of 1806 🔗

A government of occupation

70456 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 4, #975 of 1806 🔗

Andy ‘ID-cards’ Burnham. Even the Mancs might not quite deserve him.

70534 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to JohnB, 2, #976 of 1806 🔗

Yes, I haven’t forgotten that about Burnham. Bloody control freak.

70438 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Poppy, 6, #977 of 1806 🔗

I said exactly the same thing earlier in the comments. They are hyping up the second wave and further lockdowns exactly as they did with the initial lockdown and masks. I really feel like bad things are about to happen…

70459 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #978 of 1806 🔗

That would be one of their desired outcomes, AC. Don’t give them that satisfaction.

70457 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Poppy, 19, #979 of 1806 🔗

I fucking live here. I’ve shopped here today. I saw the sheep with their masks, doing the Covid swerve. I was virtually the only person without a mask. I watched them walking down an empty street with their masks on. I went to the Wethy’s in town this afternoon, I walked it to avoid the shit on the bus, along the way I saw a woman with a walking frame with a mask round her chin, then I saw a guy on a motability scooter, with his crutches tucked on the back – he had a fucking mask on. I was late to meet my mate, so I didn’t stop to explain they were probably exempt. When I got to the pub, I followed the silly rules, then I sat with my sceptic mate and I talked to him. I said “they usually mutter about things, then maybe deny it, then there might be a photo op, eg Boris in a mask – then they do it. Then I got a lift home from my mate’s non sceptic wife, she told me “we need to be careful”, I said it’s not that bad, but they will still torture us, you watch. Then I come home and see this. I’m a sceptic, and I’m not doing it, but you know what, THEY ARE ALL FUCKING DOING IT. BUT IT’S NOT ENOUGH IS IT YOU TWATS? EVERY FUCKING METRIC IS POINTING DOWN, BUT NO, YOU PILE IT ON.
I have to stop now, don’t know what to say except a lot, lot of swearing. A phrase that crops up a lot on this site is “For Fuck’s Sake”. Wonder why.

70478 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #980 of 1806 🔗

My husband says I should have “Fer Fuck’s sake” on my tombstone.

70514 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #981 of 1806 🔗

When I came back from my maskless shopping today, I entered the private driveway into the private school’s grounds I have to pass through to get to my house.
At the entrance gate, I saw a lone masked teacher walking towards it.
He must have been masked for the whole 1 mile long walk from the school buildings to that gate already, a walk along a deserted road, through fields and in most definite solitude.
The world has most definetely gone mad.
I decided then that it’s not worth it to care anymore.
Mankind fully deserves to lose its freedom now.

70620 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Jay Berger, #982 of 1806 🔗

Maybe, but we don’t.

70619 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #983 of 1806 🔗

Righteous anger.
In 1984 , Julia the heroine is unable to mention the Party without using the sort of words you saw chalked up in back allies. They aren’t used in the book because they wouldn’t have got past the censor, but Orwell and his readers knew what they were all right.
Orwell compares Julia’s language to the snorting if a horse that smells bad hay.
My horse will gladly demonstrate.

70464 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Poppy, 5, #984 of 1806 🔗

Hang on, love. Grit your teeth and hang on. Haven’t got anything else, sorry.

70472 ▶▶ James007, replying to Poppy, 10, #985 of 1806 🔗

I hate this government. Previous governments have made mistakes and lied, but have we in modern times, ever had such a cruel and morally vacuous group of leaders? They would sell-out on the most basic of our human rights, they would spend anything, they would threaten and bulley the people they govern.
They lead like a group of children playing war with toy soldiers.

I had a difficult conversation with my wife this evening – what would we do if we have another lockdown? Our 3 year old has still not recovered from being socially isolated from his nana, preschool and his favourite activities. His favourite thing in life was swimming, and we have still not been able to go.
Our local authority is doing a ‘lessons learned’ enquiry into how children with austism were affected. We are contributing to the enquiry and providing lots of information. The hope is that if lockdowns come round again, if wont be so bad for vulnerable children.

Sorry for being pretty depressed. I will feel better tomorrow morning.

70599 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to James007, 2, #986 of 1806 🔗

Morally Vacuous. Would look good on a mask.

70538 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Poppy, 1, #987 of 1806 🔗

The BBC have prepping us for this all week long

70370 DRW, replying to DRW, 13, #988 of 1806 🔗

Just had a nice meal out with an friend at my favourite pub. Lovely evening. Now I’m getting anxious again about what horrors the psychos have planned next.

70388 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to DRW, 23, #989 of 1806 🔗

Me and the brother-in-law were planning to go for a pint tomorrow night. We live in Darwen. Nuff said.

This government is an abomination. Mentalists the lot of em. I truly believe that they have been drugged because no-one, I repeat no-one can be so stupid.

What is going on? What have we come to when the ‘only’ possible explanations are conspiracy theories.

70420 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Howie59, 1, #990 of 1806 🔗

Not your BiL, your live-in-lover 😉

70448 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Howie59, 1, #991 of 1806 🔗

Leicester
Blackburn with Darwen
Luton
parts of West Yorkshire

now have different conditions to the rest of England?

70495 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #992 of 1806 🔗

The old Johnson whack a mole strategy.Manufacture a local lockdown and keep the fear simmering when in the real world the virus has all but disappeared.

70596 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Dave #KBF, #993 of 1806 🔗

By parts of West Yorkshire they mean Kirklees
(irritatingly close to me…. but no cigar)

70543 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Howie59, #994 of 1806 🔗

They are going to sell you to The Aliens.

70372 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #995 of 1806 🔗

I think I’ve seen everything now. Apparently, Harrogate Town football club were feeling rather lonely when they played their home matches in an empty stadium. But don’t worry, they’ve solved the problem by filling the ground with cardboard cut outs of supporters. Don’t believe me?—-

https://www.harrogateadvertiser.co.uk/sport/football/here-are-18-pictures-harrogate-town-stadium-filled-cut-outs-fans-2928868

Harrogate Town should not leave out their REAL fans mind you. In keeping with their near neighbour, Leeds United, they can always market a snazzy face nappy in team colours and logo.

Cardboard cut outs at the game, real fans at home with face nappies—the new face of football. Who’d have thought it?

70397 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #996 of 1806 🔗

What a complete waste of money, these clubs usually complain about a lack of funds.

70435 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, #997 of 1806 🔗

I heard about one club in the 8th tier that had setup a GoFundMe and received a load of money off local people. They then signed one of my local team’s players and are paying him £300 a week in the 8th tier. Just burning kind hearted people’s money!

70449 ▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to JohnB, #998 of 1806 🔗

I believe that kind of money is quite common in the lowly tiers. Need to get back to the days of people playing for their local clubs for pride in the lower leagues.

70402 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Harry hopkins, #999 of 1806 🔗

Wouldent need many cut outs for their average home crowd! Lol

70426 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #1000 of 1806 🔗

It’s just a pity that we can’t replace the government with cardboard cut outs— lifeless, grinning, soulless, mad eyed, paralysed and incompetent excuses for the real thing. Oh hang on a moment that’s what we’ve got now!

70500 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #1001 of 1806 🔗

Harrogate Town has fans?

70377 DRW, replying to DRW, 4, #1002 of 1806 🔗

Very good Computing Forever video: https://www.bitchute.com/video/LINSRUlsa54
I fear he’s right about the Winter but he makes an a more optimistic conclusion.

70393 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to DRW, 3, #1003 of 1806 🔗

He has been making some very good videos over the last few months, really deserves more viewers. Some of the fear mongering propaganda the BBC, Sky and Guardian put out on YouTube get millions of views.

70386 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 20, #1004 of 1806 🔗

I was reading the Janet S-P article in the Daily Mail and clicked through to another article. I found this at the end of it:

“Despite the warnings, Boris Johnson was urged not to panic over fears of a summer surge.
Former Conservative leader Sir Iain Duncan Smith said ministers should continue efforts to get the economy moving by urging more workers to return to the office. He said: ‘The message from the Government is still really fearful, it needs to be much more nuanced.
‘They must say, ‘Look, this is a disease that by-and-large affects those with co-morbidities. Protect the vulnerable but the rest of you should be getting back to work’.’ Sir Iain added: ‘We seem to have lost the ability to balance risk.'”

I think that we are beginning to see more balanced views in places – how long before the BBC start to discuss the other side? The following was earlier on in the same article:

“This morning, BBC broadcaster Nick Robinson repeatedly asked Mr Hancock if he was being hysterical about rising cases in Europe and the UK because infection rates are nowhere near the lockdown peak and are likely to be a symptom of society returning to a new normal.
Mr Robinson also asked if he was overreacting because of a fear of repeating mistakes Number 10 made at the start of the outbreak, such as not quarantining travellers from abroad.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576485/Boris-Johnson-warns-UK-not-woods-coronavirus-crisis.html

70408 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Ozzie, 15, #1005 of 1806 🔗

The government has had it easy off the media but they have no love for the Tories and it is only a matter of time before they flip and start attacking them for the results of the policies they pressured them to adopt. It will certainly happen if they detect a souring of public enthusiasm for masks and lockdowns. It’s like the grooming gang scandal: eventually a journalist will break ranks and start telling the truth.

70444 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 10, #1006 of 1806 🔗

I sadly suspect much of the media will attack the government for not having a harsh enough lockdown and not enforcing mask wearing – completely the wrong conclusion. The Murdoch papers seem particularly keen on the technocratic takeover of the world especially The Times. It would be hard for the media to backtrack after months of enthusiastic pro lockdown propaganda.

70454 ▶▶▶ John Smith, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #1007 of 1806 🔗

“.. but they have no love for the Tories..” ?

Really …?

70476 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to John Smith, 2, #1008 of 1806 🔗

You don’t actually think they do surely? They have a convergence of interests over covid but that is as far as it goes.

70510 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #1009 of 1806 🔗

Agreed. Said this from the outset. The MSM will conveniently forget all their idiotic questions, love of lockdown and attendant nonsense as soon as the truth starts winning (which it inevitably will) and start blaming the Government for all the misery that these idiotic and wildly out of proportion ‘policy responses’ have caused. They are the most despicable useless group of cretins. Second are the current Government for having the backbone of an omeaba and cowering to their idiotic nonsense in the first place. All of them will pay a very heavy price. Looking forward to it.

70617 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #1010 of 1806 🔗

I agree.
I can see Panorama now.

Da-da, last year Britain suffered its worst disaster since World War 2. Human rights abolished, citizens imprisoned, old people slaughtered, children deprived of education, universal terror and misery, the economy wrecked … how did it happen?This fearless BBC investigation reveals the shocking truth.

PS.It wasn’t us.

70387 Anonymous, #1011 of 1806 🔗

The excess death figures are indisputable – a lot more people died in Mar-Jun than is normal
(7.5% according to the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53592881 )

The question is why?

Was it the fact that the wonderful NHS effectively shut down during this period?
Our hospitals were emptied, thousands of pointless Nightingale beds were constructed
Tens of thousands of unneeded ventilators were ordered

GP surgeries just closed their doors, full stop
Attempting to ring the NHS or a GP, you were met with nothing but recorded advice about the dreaded virus

People who could not avoid hospital due to emergencies found themselves contracting the virus

The most vulnerable were dumped into care homes, where they died in droves
GPs did not make visits
These poor people were left isolated and terrified
“Protecting the NHS” came at a bitter cost

Contrast this with Sweden (2.3% excess) – and the Swedes admit they didn’t do enough to protect the vulnerable in care homes

70391 Stephen, replying to Stephen, 70, #1012 of 1806 🔗

Johnson thinks he is Churchill. This gets more shocking by the day.

So the newspaper headlines say that he wants to “defeat” the virus. This is like King Canute holding back the waves. You cannot defeat a virus.

My view is that Johnson is holding up the mirage of Wave 2 as a bogeyman. He then implements all sorts of nonsense such as quarantines, local lock downs, masks and whatever else the so called scientists dream up. Then when Wave 2 does not happen he claims what a great job he did. It would have happened otherwise.

It also obscures the screw up of Wave 1. The government has blood on its hands. By panicking and discharging patients into care homes they killed people. By panicking and canceling normal NHS procedures they also killed people. They are culpable. They realise this and are now doubling down on a false narrative to defend themselves.

It is totally shocking. Johnson is not fit even to clean the shoes of Churchill. This government is just appalling.

70400 ▶▶ annie, replying to Stephen, 9, #1013 of 1806 🔗

Would you let Boris anywhere near your shoes?
I may have stepped in some hangcock when I trod in the gutter recently…

70428 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Stephen, 1, #1014 of 1806 🔗

When does he claim “victory” for avoiding ‘Wave 2’? Next year?

70446 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Stephen, 12, #1015 of 1806 🔗

Yep, plus there is now SO MUCH money to be made from a vaccine, and there is so much conflict of interest with corporate money and sage, that there are now vast lobbying interests highly invested in keeping this charade going too.

But my boffin friend says the only way out of this with reputation intact for the scientists is a second wave. Otherwise they are ruined. Ditto the government.

It’s exactly like the Vietnam war, no one wants to be the administration to have to admit an almighty f**k up, or be the ones who ‘lose’.

70499 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to BecJT, 5, #1016 of 1806 🔗

Correct Bec. We know how that ended. This will fall apart, just as certainly. We can only hope that it does so as soon as possible. I think there will be desperation setting in soon amongst all of the Governments and vested interests as their lies, deceptions and deliberate obfuscations get exposed . Their attempts to portray this virus as uniquely deadly and uniquely virulent and therefore requiring a unique response that itself destroys lives and the economy with all of the horrendous consequences that entails are starting to get so laughably ridiculous, they just can’t find a way out, other than to hope for a ‘vaccine’ to save their necks. The helicopter out of Saigon…

70584 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #1017 of 1806 🔗

The government thinks that Bill Gates’s is genocidal vaccines will save their necks, no I don’t think that will happen.

70583 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to BecJT, 2, #1018 of 1806 🔗

Johnson Hancock et al are in bed with eugenicist Bill Gates, that is crystal clear. We are in very deep trouble.

70601 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to BecJT, #1019 of 1806 🔗

Who is going to make all the money? Do you think that they will share it with us?

70475 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Stephen, 3, #1020 of 1806 🔗

Spot on Stephen. What I have been saying to anybody who cares to listen!

70600 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Stephen, #1021 of 1806 🔗

He really did think that he was destined to become Britain’s next Churchill. What a joke!

70392 james cook, #1022 of 1806 🔗

Am not sure whether anyone else mentioned this already but Del BigTrees the Highwire has been censored by Youtube – the whole channel pulled of the platform.

70423 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 17, #1023 of 1806 🔗

There’s hope across the Channel. My daughter’s just arrived in Bordeaux airport and has texted me to say:’ you’d love our Uber driver. He says Corona is fake news’ 😁

70501 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Telpin, 1, #1024 of 1806 🔗

He’s saying all that and then giving their details to test, track and trace!

70580 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, #1025 of 1806 🔗

That’s Uber for you.

70424 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 27, #1026 of 1806 🔗

The virus has disappeared but the lunatics running the asylum have not.

70434 ▶▶ DRW, replying to richard riewer, 10, #1027 of 1806 🔗

Well, probably reached a natural seasonal floor. I’m seriously thinking of emigrating to Sweden next year at this rate.

70504 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to DRW, 5, #1028 of 1806 🔗

Everyone speaks English there.
Summers are nice.
The real problem is that Swedes in general are almost as sheepish as the Japanese.
As someone already said, if Tegnell asked them to put muzzles on, there would be 110% compliance within a nanosecond.
Everything is lagom and consensus orientated and dictated.
Cash has already disappeared.
You can’t even play the lottery without being previously registered.
Maybe that’s why the real big powers in charge gave them a bit more leeway initially….

70528 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1029 of 1806 🔗

Good point – they certainly are the cashless poster boys and girls.

71128 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Jay Berger, #1030 of 1806 🔗

Yes, they closed down the thousand year old Swedish mint, founded in 995, in 2008, and gave a contract to a foreign company. Cash seems to be very little used now in Sweden, even for very small amounts, so a fundamental freedom to trade without the eye of the state logging your every financial activity has been stripped away. Coming our way soon, I fear.

70511 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DRW, #1031 of 1806 🔗

I almost emigrated to Sweden in 1968 during the Vietnam War. Canada was closer. I met one fellow from New Jersey who lived in Sweden. He was well treated, taught to speak and understand the language, got a job as a trolley driver. But he always remained homesick.

70579 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to richard riewer, #1032 of 1806 🔗

Homesick for what?

70603 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Rowan, #1033 of 1806 🔗

New Jersey, U.S.A., his family, friends, the English language …

70657 ▶▶▶▶ Graham, replying to richard riewer, #1034 of 1806 🔗

I sympathise. I lived in Sweden for a while. If you’re self sufficient it’s great, because it will probably take quite a while before you make friends. They are very pleasant and polite but rather reserved, except when drunk. I learnt the language after a certain amount of struggle and that made a difference. When I was there Sweden consisted almost entirely of Swedes and was supernaturally orderly and efficient.

70576 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to DRW, #1035 of 1806 🔗

I’m going with you, despite the beer prices.

70433 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 19, #1036 of 1806 🔗

There are millions of people who think that this ploy by governments around the world is hogwash. We need to organize a staggered twitter, email, facebook blitz of derogatory, satirical messages all day long to overload their servers and put them out of commission.

70458 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to richard riewer, 9, #1037 of 1806 🔗

The trouble is we are up against something along the lines of Operation Mockingbird – the establishment has completely manipulated the media for its propaganda purposes.

70588 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Darryl, #1038 of 1806 🔗

Nightingale is a word used in a recent policy iirc. Obviously these ghost arena bed ward set-ups too.

Nightingales:
As well as the large-scale issues listed above rare etc, nightingales have also faced other threats in the past. In the 19th century, birdcatchers caught large numbers of nightingales for the cagebird trade to try and ‘capture’ its song. Most quickly succumbed in captivity; those that survived until autumn often killed themselves, dashed against the cage bars as they tried to follow their migratory urge.

71140 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Basics, #1039 of 1806 🔗

A terribly sad thing, those poor birds. I often wonder how salmon must suffer in fish farms, being unable to follow their primordial urge to migrate.

70437 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 5, #1040 of 1806 🔗

A good mask slogan: ‘Meet the new boss, same as the old boss’

70461 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to richard riewer, 1, #1041 of 1806 🔗

I know that the hypnotised never lie…. Do ya?

70443 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 30, #1042 of 1806 🔗

Unbelievable, they are now putting great areas of the North of England on the naughty step, apparently it is there own fault for being sociable, friendly and helping each other. Earlier today a spokesperson for one of these areas , when asked why cases are rising did say that they were doiing a lot more testing! Are great swathes of people dying? are the hospitals overwhelmed? no
Their attempts to be in control of this virus is like living in Alice in Wonderland;
“If this were only cleared away,”
They said, “it would be grand!”
“If seven maids with seven mops
Swept it for half a year.
Do you suppose,” the Walrus said,
“That they could get it clear?”
“I doubt it,” said the Carpenter,
And shed a bitter tear.
Meanwhile we all suffer from this madness.

70470 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Steve Martindale, 6, #1043 of 1806 🔗

Heard a discussion of this on Radio 4’s Pathetic PM. They were struggling to find something that links the high Covid areas of Oldham, Rochdale, Bradford, and Leicester…I’m sure half the listeners were helpfully shouting at their radios by thus point. But the best Evan and guest could come up with was “deprivation” while studiously ignoring why so many areas of equal or worse “deprivation” did not have high Covid incidence.

70479 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to OKUK, 16, #1044 of 1806 🔗

That assumes that there is something ‘real’ behind this shite.

I’ve not seen any evidence. Leicester continues to suffer a non-epidemic after a couple of weeks.

But who is asking the questions in the public sphere?

Democracy is broken – with the consent of the people.

70494 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to RickH, 6, #1045 of 1806 🔗

A collective insanity. Mass hysteria on steroids.

70592 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, #1046 of 1806 🔗

It o kh assumes there us a virus, a novel pathogen. It doesn’t assume we need any Leicester style lockdowns.

70481 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to OKUK, 4, #1047 of 1806 🔗

This council, and others like it, in fact this COUNTRY falls over backward to accommodate ‘a certain demographic’. Trust me, they have everything they want. Deprivation, my arse.

70498 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to OKUK, 2, #1048 of 1806 🔗

Luton is also not fully open, does not seem to get a mention anywhere. Sport centre etc cannot open, similar I believe to Blackburn & Darwen

70522 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #1049 of 1806 🔗

Could someone knock up a Matt Hancock / Trainspotting / Choose blame poster?…..

‘Blame northerners, blame Asians, Blame non mask-wearers, blame poor eyesight, blame silly union jack VE Day sausages, blame beachgoers, blame protesters, blame science, blame Spain, blame Leicester, blame anti-vaxxers ……’

Etcetera

70573 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1050 of 1806 🔗

Blame Johnson, Hancock and their pal Bill Gates.

70544 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to OKUK, 4, #1051 of 1806 🔗

Small islands of somewhere else. They initially included Luton but dropped it when it became just too obvious.

70557 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #1052 of 1806 🔗

I think Labour councils might be a better place to look …..

70574 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Cheezilla, #1053 of 1806 🔗

Labour councils are the most stupid of all and that’s really saying something.

70570 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to OKUK, 1, #1054 of 1806 🔗

You seem to be falling for the propaganda. All the bastards are doing in these places is more testing and yes there is a certain section in all of these places that is naive enough to think that testing is a good idea. The bastards know just what they are doing.

70593 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Rowan, 1, #1055 of 1806 🔗

I don’t think I’m falling for any propaganda. It would be daft to think human behaviour has no effect on virus spread which seems to be your take.

70532 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #1056 of 1806 🔗

Unfortunately, these local measures are going to happen in the future repeatedly, not only in the UK but all over in previous lockdown countries of Europe. All European leaders must know that a new national lockdown is a suicide note. They must invent something else. Even Merkel with only 10000 deaths lost paid 10 % of Germany’s BNB for this (they might have 30 000 deaths from flu without any actions). The median age over 82 in Germany for Covid-19 and the cost for each life years saved have been astronomical. If Merkel can’t afford a national lockdown, how can UK, Mediterranean nations even consider one? But they must seem to do something but not costing too much hence best with irritating local rules etc. Blame merry partying youngsters in Catalonia, Romanian fruit pickers in Germany, returning Mallorca tourists or partying youngsters in the UK. Combine this with mask mandate everywhere I think sums up what they are capable of pestering our lives.
But they have painted themselves in a corner with increasing mass testing detecting cases mostly asymptomatic or recovered with positive test several weeks after being infected.They will face the electorate in due time in deep recession and the fear factor can be difficult to sustain for months and people will tire of masks come this autumn and winter.

70692 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1057 of 1806 🔗

I think the Swedes put it well: “En gnutta osaklighet sparar tonvis med förklaringar.” (I always felt this meant something like ‘A certain opaqueness saves loads of explanations’. Or perhaps ‘Lying saves explaining’.

70480 stefarm, replying to stefarm, #1058 of 1806 🔗

Fuck me, anyone seen this on tv. Psyops 101.

https://youtu.be/r9KemZF9Pp4

70483 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to stefarm, #1059 of 1806 🔗

Do they have an specific advert for the 77th?

70484 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1060 of 1806 🔗

Not yet

70490 Nick Rose, 33, #1061 of 1806 🔗

When the captain of a ship goes insane, the ship’s company are entitled to remove him.

The first estate – lords spiritual – believe it is best to hide away, rather than keep the churches open to provide those who need it with religious solace and company in these difficult times.

The second estate – lords temporal – think we ought to be encased head-to-toe in rubber and wear gas masks outdoors as if we were a nation of fetishists.

The third estate – the commons – feel they can snatch away civil liberties and ancient freedoms at will, as if eight hundred years of freedom is some sort of privilege under their control.

The fourth estate – the press – dictate policy, demand that we should be prisoners in our homes, think there is a bottomless pit of furlough cash and that we will all die from a disease that is little worse than a cold.

The captain of our ship – the entire establishment – has gone totally stark staring bonkers. It is time to be rid of them. All of them. Lock, stock and barrel.

70492 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 7, #1062 of 1806 🔗

Question for Sir Simon Stevens.
So the evidence shows that your staff have been killing elderly patients by infecting them with Covid-19. What are you going to do to stop this from happening in future?
Answer.
Shut the hospitals so we don’t transmit it. Shut schools and businesses so we don’t catch it. Reserve all public transport for us so we don’t catch it on the way to work. That should do it. No Covid. No NHS. No need. Save the NHS!

70552 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to WhyNow, 2, #1063 of 1806 🔗

Wankock is already plotting to throw Stevens under the bus. See the NHS revamp.

70505 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 7, #1064 of 1806 🔗

Lewis Hamilton has been very vocal and pushy for the past few weeks. I would like to ask him what he knows about different African myths, rituals, superstitions, beliefs (non-Christian). I wonder how much the front people for Black Lives Matter know about African culture as well. I bet in both cases that it is either zero or close to zero.

70568 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to richard riewer, #1065 of 1806 🔗

I think you are being rather kind to Lewis Hamilton.

70637 ▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to richard riewer, #1066 of 1806 🔗

They are Yoruba witchcraft adepts apparently. My favourite image was Congress members kneeling in kente cloth the mark of Ashanti royalty.

70649 ▶▶ Graham, replying to richard riewer, #1067 of 1806 🔗

To quote The Sweeney: ‘shut up and drive!’.

70509 annie, replying to annie, 1, #1068 of 1806 🔗

Just had the following emsil. Boiling with rage. Told them to fuck off.

As lockdown eases and people are once again able to visit our beautiful countryside, there is a possibility that they may seek to utilise quieter places for their recreation in order to ensure social distancing. In addition, lockdown restrictions have presented an opportunity to some species to utilise areas which are normally too busy for them. Both these factors may bring people into contact with wildlife. Whilst these interactions can be harmless to wildlife and memorable for people, they can also disturb normal behaviours such as feeding, resting, nesting, moulting and flowering.

Local wildlife conservation partners would like to gather examples of such incidents in order to gauge whether such an issue exists and if so, identify any hot spots to inform future management and minimise wildlife disturbance whilst facilitating sustainable recreation. If you think you have witnessed wildlife disturbance, even low-level and unintentional, we would appreciate you providing the following information:

  • Date
  • Grid reference
  • Location name
  • Brief description of the incident
  • Your contact details
  • Any supporting photograph

Information should be emailed to Lisa Morgan of the Wildlife Trust of South and West Wales for collation at l.morgan@welshwildlife.org . Feel free to include reports dating back over the last few months if relevant.

70515 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to annie, #1069 of 1806 🔗

I would have thought there was an opportunity for some, err, imaginative responses, Annie … ?

70567 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to annie, #1070 of 1806 🔗

Lisa should be taken out and given a good telling off or something.

70615 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rowan, 2, #1071 of 1806 🔗

She’s had a very rude message from me. Await reply.

70586 ▶▶ Basics, replying to annie, 4, #1072 of 1806 🔗

Rewilding is about giving land over to no human access. Out of bounds areas. I dare suggest Lisa isn’t the greatest thinking brain on the planrt to come up with such a nasty little scheme – but she is unwittingly taking part in the slow shut down of free access to nature.

Giving land over to nature ends with people coralled into cities or city regions as they are termed.

Much more than just disturbing the greater lesser spotted sparrow moult. It’s normalising micro managment of the human experience. Defind the wildlife trust now!

70519 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 2, #1073 of 1806 🔗

Hi Josh

The keepbritainfree.com forums have separate sections for different parts of the country. Recommended. Down here in Sussex, we have a chat/drink/meeting set up for next week.

Edit: This was meant to be a reply to Josh Payne. Gremlins.

70551 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, #1074 of 1806 🔗

Thanks. Didn’t know about that. Just added myself to the local list. Huge two of us so far but it’s a start.

70565 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to JohnB, 1, #1075 of 1806 🔗

Drove through the poorer part of town to day and many masks in evidence. Two miles up the road and into the “posher” area, not a mask to be seen and loads of people about. It’s not yet a slam dunk for the mask wearers.

70526 Mark, replying to Mark, 20, #1076 of 1806 🔗

Damn those Swedes, rubbing in again how cowardly, criminally incompetent and generally stupid our government and our political, cultural and socialites are compared to (some of) theirs.

Scandinavia holds out against face masks: Below 10% of Nordic citizens say they wear face coverings in public as rest of Europe orders their use
Also note the graph showing the shameful climb in face nappy use in the UK, showing how sheep-like and suggestible we are as a nation, when our government and media manipulate us.

70548 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, 8, #1077 of 1806 🔗

Sweden is lucky not to have the BBC!

70529 TPFR, replying to TPFR, 21, #1078 of 1806 🔗

Hello. I’ve been lurking for a while but thought I’d contribute a couple of things. First (repeating from yesterday), a map of businesses similar to the current one but devoted entirely to those that aren’t insisting on masks would be really useful, for me at least. I refuse to wear one and it would be nice to support such shops.
Secondly, a conversation with a friend who is a policeman. I’d grumbled about being required to wear a mask.
P: To be fair, it’s not a law, just guidelines.
Me: Are you sure? I thought I can be fined £100.
P: Oh yes, you’re right actually. To be honest I’m not bothered about being told to wear one. Isn’t there some sort of card you can download saying you have a reasonable excuse?
Me: But haven’t you been told to enforce these things?
P: To be honest we’ve all got more important things to worry about.

I assume from this, that the chances of being fined are basically non-existent.

70533 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to TPFR, #1079 of 1806 🔗

I assume from this, that the chances of being fined are basically non-existent.
————————————-
Don’t now if that is good or bad…

70553 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to TPFR, 5, #1080 of 1806 🔗

Now this is GREAT to know.

70578 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to TPFR, 2, #1081 of 1806 🔗

I still haven’t been able to find the actual LAW that says the police can fine £100. From your post the policeman said they’re just guidlines and then said he/they can fine £100. So where’s the LAW?

I recall reading that at least two police forces had to refund fines issued for not ‘social distancing’ as, in fact, there was no law that actually said the police COULD fine people.I may be wrong but I’m pretty sure about that.

DavidC

70590 ▶▶▶ TPFR, replying to DavidC, #1082 of 1806 🔗

Well, my impression was that the only thing the police (or at least one force) have been told is what they’re seeing on the news and nobody has asked them to issue fines for facemasks. I think he was just about aware they were mandatory in shops but mis-speaking. As for something that says it’s the law, the statutory instrument is here. I’m fairly sure the Health Secretary does have power to do this, even if I’d rather he didn’t.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/791/part/1/made#top

70595 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to TPFR, 2, #1083 of 1806 🔗

They have the power. But they’re not gonna use it.
Basically.

70716 ▶▶ elliotsdad, replying to TPFR, 1, #1085 of 1806 🔗

I run a fish and chip shop (no screens, no enforcements of masks, everything as normal etc) and I have a regular customer who joined the police last year. He came in last saturday evening and…. no mask. I can tell that most of my customers who come in with a mask do it because they think we will challenge them (we won’t) and those that don’t have cash think WE won’t take cash. In fact we won’t take cards!

70941 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to elliotsdad, #1086 of 1806 🔗

🙂
Whereabouts, elliotsdad ?

70539 Cheezilla, #1087 of 1806 🔗

Sorry. Failed image attempt.

70540 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 33, #1088 of 1806 🔗

Quote from US twitter

“You’ve got to hand it to them.I’d never thought it possible to get the vast majority of the UK public walking about in masks on a hot sunny day in late July on account of a URT virus that peaked over four months ago. This is the most successful Project Fear in history. Congrats.”

70589 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to swedenborg, 10, #1089 of 1806 🔗

I too am stunned at people walking alone outside wearing a muzzle. And don’t get me started on the people driving masked up…it makes my brain hurt

70542 James, #1090 of 1806 🔗

I have been a supporter of this site from day 1 but not posted much to date.

I have just finished listening to a couple of Bob Kennedy Jr interviews and have been paying more and more attention to Del Bigtree. Up until the last couple of weeks I have not paid a lot of attention to the vaccination debate ; but I am now. If you are not familiar with this stuff then I urge everyone to start paying attention. If these guys are right then the scale of corruption is so huge that it boggles the mind of most people of goodwill; but apparently it has been unfolding in front of our eyes for the last 25 years.

The ‘rough beast‘ might have finally arrived.

Watch Kennedy Jr v Dershowitz

on Valuetainment

now and make up your own mind. This is much bigger than masks and lockdowns.

James

70546 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #1091 of 1806 🔗

They’ve just put Kirklees (and other similar places) into family-mixing lockdown?
Just checked the stats:

Kirklees: 21 cases per 100,000 people in the latest week 20 Jul-26 Jul. The average area in England had 5.

Kirklees population about 450,000 over 157 sq miles. Some densely populated, some very rural. Go figure!

This covid-zero nonsense is going to be a serious pain in the posterior.

70549 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1092 of 1806 🔗

Incidentally, according to the ONS, deaths with ‘flu and pneumonia for weeks 25–29 (being the last week reported) exceed COVID-19 “mentioning” deaths:

Wk,’flu/pneumonia,covid19
25,1002,783
26,938,606
27,1004,523
28,917,366
29,879,295

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending17july2020

70556 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, 3, #1093 of 1806 🔗

Deaths are not the issue. It’s all about positive test results now. Ridiculous!

70571 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1094 of 1806 🔗

Of course deaths can’t be an issue now, how on Earth could they persist that this is a “deadly” disease with the current CFR?! 😉

70554 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #1095 of 1806 🔗

Lol my mate just texted me saying they’re locking down Yorkshire.

I replied “lol nobody gives a fuck any more”

70555 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 2, #1096 of 1806 🔗

Exactly!

70558 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 10, #1097 of 1806 🔗

No ordinary person has any political representation any more. BoJo, his cabinet and advisors are free to do as they wish, with MSM and social media pushing the agenda.

We are done.

70559 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #1098 of 1806 🔗

Seriously though, nobody is gonna take any notice of this shit. They can’t police who goes in whose house, and they can’t police who goes to the pub with who.

70563 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Farinances, 1, #1099 of 1806 🔗

No but the bastards can still shut the pubs.

70575 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Rowan, 1, #1100 of 1806 🔗

I’m not sure they’d dare at this point.

70598 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 2, #1101 of 1806 🔗

(Yorkshire is a VERY BIG PLACE. Also we’re like….. half their Blue Wall, more’s the pity)

70547 James, #1102 of 1806 🔗

James again,

It is possible the tide is turning on Lockdowns in the UK and parts of the US but if the people driving this are not exposed then they will come back with a new and better thought out scam sooner or later. There is an opportunity to expose something here that we could all easily miss. We might win the battle but not realise this is a war.

Crimes against humanity could easily be justified as stupid mistakes born of ignorance and pride and the real perpetrators get to slink off into the undergrowth only to come back another day. I am not saying they need to be punished; they just need to be stopped.

I hope I am wrong and it is just an outbreak of species destructive stupidity on a mass scale. But I have come to believe this is too well thought out to be a random semi psychotic episode.

James

70560 Jane, replying to Jane, 6, #1103 of 1806 🔗

Last corner of (semi)sanity on Martha’s Vineyard has been overtaken by mask madness.
https://vineyardgazette.com/news/2020/07/29/tisbury-mandates-face-masks

The ridiculous thing is that 95% or more—virtually everyone I have seen in the streets—have been muzzled. Everyone in shops, masked. Everyone queueing to enter a shop, masked. Virtually everyone on the sidewalks, masked.

So what is the need for an additional mandate?

This is all coming from somewhere, but where?

70591 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Jane, 9, #1104 of 1806 🔗

I’ve said here that in Toronto we have a better than 100% compliance rate on mask wearing. I say more than 100% because the morons are not only wearing their mandated masks inside shops, but they wear them outside when there is no mandate (yet) to do so. It’s insanity! But you’re quite correct that if they dropped the mandate tomorrow we’d probably still be at around 98%. If they did, at least the 2% of us who are sane could claim our rights back. Alas no — Toronto just extended the mandate into condos and apartment common areas and is making restaurants take names and phone numbers for “contact tracing.” When will the madness end????

70606 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #1105 of 1806 🔗

Lisa, if you need a break I can come and pick you up in a few days and I’ll bring you back to BC where the insanity hasn’t reached such levels yet. I’d imagine Vancouver itself is a masked up populace but here in the Fraser Valley there’s more faces than muzzles by far.

70612 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Eddie, 2, #1106 of 1806 🔗

Thanks for the offer! I’m spending most of my time 2 hours north of Toronto on our 60-acre property where I don’t have to come into contact with anyone. It was truly my haven until the idiots here mandated masks with ZERO active cases (we now have 4 cases since the mandate so if I used their logic I’d assume that a “huge” jump in cases means that masks don’t work).

I had to go back to the city for my grandmother’s funeral the other day and even that 24 hours was all I could take. It was my second trip back since early May and each time is more depressing because some new humiliation has been forced upon us.

I do love BC though and we have friends there who would probably give us shelter if we needed it! Just don’t get too overconfident. Bonnie Henry has been far better than most, but she may succumb to pressure if hysteria builds as case numbers rise.

70624 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #1107 of 1806 🔗

Hello, when you said over 100% I thought you may mean they had managed to put also put a mask over that section of their brain that deals with sanity and reality!
In the UK total weekly deaths from all causes is now running below average and hospitals are doing fine and are not overwhemed. This whole nonsense is now being driven by dodgy test results, one can only hope that in time it will become apparent that these tests will be shown as unrelated to serious disease effects. Testing should have been a helpful tool but instead has become a monstrous weapon being used to beat us with!

70572 DavidC, #1108 of 1806 🔗

.

70577 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 14, #1109 of 1806 🔗

This crisis that we are experiencing now is just the tip of the iceberg. We might even get another respite along the way, like we did at the beginning of July. It, too, will be yanked away and more restrictions will be put in place. This is a global exercise to change the world order and those who dream about it have been working hard for many years. It’s a step-by-step process with the occasional bumps in the road that demand a few adjustments. This is the New World Order’s new and improved version of Germany’s The Third Reich.

70923 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to richard riewer, #1110 of 1806 🔗

They have been working hard, but without compassion, humour, awareness, or the ability to predict the future. They’re fucked.

70581 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 2, #1111 of 1806 🔗

.

70587 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to DavidC, 6, #1112 of 1806 🔗

Is that the beginning of the second wave? Looks terrifying…even though it’s just a small dot.

70594 Dave #KBF, 5, #1113 of 1806 🔗

Am I correct that Eid is celebrated on 31st July, if so the timing of this new lockdown is appalling.

70604 richard riewer, 5, #1114 of 1806 🔗

This is one method the government will use to get back some money. Higher taxes for online shoppîng. What a joke!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/30/rishi-sunaks-planned-online-sales-tax-is-a-tax-on-disability

70605 richard riewer, 9, #1115 of 1806 🔗

I am looking forward to hundreds of class action lawsuits worldwide for criminal negligence.

70608 BobT, replying to BobT, 22, #1116 of 1806 🔗

I have been struggling to find a root cause for the reason that the world has gone completely mad about this non epidemic.

A few weeks ago, I posted my views on this site and accused two ‘nom de plumes’ of being racist in their posts regarding the BLM movement. The two responded and defended themselves which I appreciated. My excuse for posting my views is that I was drunk (as I am now). What was striking for someone like me who has never, until the last few months, dabbled in social media or blog posts was that I received many tens of red downvotes from other readers of this site. Is this ‘cancel culture’ at work?

The reason I ask is that this self destruction of the human race is driven by something. I find it hard to believe that it is caused by a single extraordinarily rich person using their wealth and power to manipulate all of us, neither a global power trying to dominate us, so there has to be another explanation.

I have been thinking about what is different now in this century from the last. People reacted to WW1 and WW2, the spanish flu, the other epidemics and the financial crashes of the last century with a fighting spirit and they were determined to prevail irrespective of the risk and human loss.

The only thing that has changed between the last century and this one is social media. Social media allows people to express emotional views rather than ones based on real numbers e.g. collated and published mortality figures from death certificates. The numbers do not matter to the social media crowd, only what they have seen on the ‘news’ matters, and if their news is fake they do not care so long as they feel part of the crowd and will not suffer down votes.

Now, the main stream media follow social media as seen by their regular republishing of twitter posts. Journalists have become lazy, do no independent research, and follow the social media crowd. Of course, politicians need to be popular too so they must follow the crowd to get reelected.

Some may argue that social media is democracy at its best, after all it allows the point of view of the masses to be expressed, but if that point of view is based upon nothing but an emotional feeling rather than solid reasoning then in my view democracy has failed. Perhaps that is why there is presently a resurgence of populist / dictatorial politicians in the world.

Anyway, I used to blame China, now I blame Social Media.

Anyone else here have an explanation for this?

70611 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to BobT, 31, #1117 of 1806 🔗

I have a few thoughts, but absolutely agree with you about social media fuelling the fear. You touch on one of the big things, and that is how we dealt with other difficult periods in the last century like the World Wars, Spanish Flu, the Depression, other pandemics (Asian and Hong Kong Flus), the Cold War, etc. I would argue that we’ve become soft and lack resilience because it’s been decades since we’ve had to deal with anything remotely like those scary events.

Another factor, which is kind of related, is the culture of safety-ism which has been growing for decades. I’m 55 and walked to school, played outside with my friends, etc., but these days if you let your kids go to the park alone only a few blocks away you’re likely to have your kids taken away from you! Helicopter parenting has sent the message to kids that the world is not a safe place and an adult will always be there to fix problems. Then these same kids get to university and demand “safe spaces,” can’t tolerate dissenting ideas, bully and heckle guest speakers they don’t agree with and the like. These are the same kids who think they should get an A for just showing up. Bad results are just not tolerated, which leads me to a third point.

Nobody is allowed to die anymore and lives have to be saved at all costs. Risks are blown out of proportion and are now unacceptable no matter how small. We are seeing crazy polls that show younger people are the most likely to overestimate their risk of dying from Covid, hence they’re the ones most likely to unquestioningly wear masks. Universities have quashed critical thinking and so we have hoards of people who are mainlining the government and MSM Kool Aid and happy to hand over their rights and freedoms in exchange for being kept “safe.”

Add to all this the pernicious influence of social media and you have the makings of mass hysteria and a pandemic of fear. When people are in a state of panic they cannot rationally take in information and sort through data. Unless something can break through this fear, I don’t know how we get out of this nightmare. I kind of think that the fever might break only when something scares people more than Covid — like losing a job, house, not being able to feed oneself or one’s family. Way back in March (a lifetime ago) I recall reading a quote from someone who said that, “Starvation has a death rate of 100% so I’ll take my chances with a virus I have a 99% chance of surviving.” I’m afraid things will have to get horribly bad for people to snap out of this fear.

70621 ▶▶▶ BobT, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 17, #1118 of 1806 🔗

Lisa,

You have clearly expressesd views similar to mine.

I am older than you but we have shared the same peaceful years of our lives because of the experiences our fathers and grandfathers had and told us of the horrors of the world wars. They never wanted it to happen again and worked their lives for peace and prosperity for their children.

The safety they provided has now been taken for granted and people do not understand how bad things can get.

For example, in central america, there are reports of governments using Covid lockdowns as an excuse to arrest people from the streets and force them into ‘quarantine’ in inhumane conditions and, of course, the ones rounded up are political opponents.

The world peaceful order our ancestors created is fragile and this nonsense could ruin it. We must fight to not let this happen.

70626 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 6, #1119 of 1806 🔗

I think this nightmare will end but it is going to be a slow grind. The virus became more virulent as a result of just 1 mutation from D to G at position 614, this virus seems more stable then some but even so history teaches us that such viruses do mutate again. The SARs virus faded partly due to genetic changes. We live in hope. The other hope is that people will wake up and smell the coffee and see that the monstrous testing system is causing us to pointlessly chase out tails at huge social and economic cost.

70631 ▶▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #1120 of 1806 🔗

Bill Gates.

70634 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #1121 of 1806 🔗

I too also walked to school along with just about everyone else I knew. We’d often stop at the park on the way home and get back hours after school shut. Our parents didn’t think twice about it unless we were expected back for an event or some other occasion.

Nowadays I hardly see anybody walking to school. I still live in the same town I grew up in and the same schools are still there. I can see that it probably is less safe for children to walk to school now than it was when I was young. The reason? Because nobody else is walking to school.

70677 ▶▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 9, #1122 of 1806 🔗

Hi Lisa, All,

Yes, I completely agree about social media, the internet, etc … Although I think both of those tools simply amplify or allow further expression of a deeper rooted societal issue regarding personal responsibility.

We are now so conditioned and accustomed to the expectation that the government or a higher authority will take care of us, keep us from risk and harm, make the difficult decisions regarding personal safety and dictate to us how to be responsible humans towards others. This was happening before social media and the internet, in my opinion. And happening in the young!

One example (I know, completely anecdotal) happened 4 years ago. I work for a large company in Reading, 200+ people, big multi-floored building, cafeteria, coffee rooms per floor, fridges for personal use, etc …

Every year we get 60 or so 14/15 year olds who visit for us to lecture them on how great it it is to work for us, and how wonderful the corporate world is. Yes … moving on.

But this time, 4 years ago, an email from HR was sent around stating that one of the visiting children had a peanut allergy, therefore for the day, the cafeteria would not serve any food with peanuts, the vending machines would be shutoff (seriously!), all fridges would be checked and peanut containing foods removed, and we were asked not to bring in any peanut based foods on the day, and also check our desks for peanut based snacks. Serious!

I was appalled at this, the ridiculous measures imposed based on the actual threat. Sound familiar? I emailed HR to state that we were overreacting, that a 14/15 year old can make sound decisions on their own, and aren’t we sending the wrong message regarding personal responsibility and reasonable measures. Sound familiar?

I got a response from HR stating that a) this was corporate policy, b) here’s some links around the consequences of said allergy, and c) if we can protect a single life, isn’t it worth it!? Sound familiar?

But even worse!! …. I asked some colleagues later about it, and they all just shrugged their shoulders and said: “I don’t eat at the cafeteria.” or “What’s the big deal, it’s only a day?” Sound familiar?

Sigh, this nannying culture has been with us for a loooong time, in my opinion, and there’s absolutely NOTHING I’ve seen in the past few months which makes me think we’ll get out of this mindset soon.

Cheers.

70904 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to HaylingDave, #1123 of 1806 🔗

Wonder if we work for the same outfit, Dave ? 🙂

70613 ▶▶ annie, replying to BobT, 25, #1124 of 1806 🔗

Yes.
The Internet.
All earlier epidemics occurred before the Internet,
Without the Internet, lockdown would be psychologically and practically impossible. No home working, no online selling, not even a pretence at educating children or ‘seeing” your family, no interactive entertainment, no medical ‘consultations’, no contact with anybody except by telephone, no everlasting dripfeed of terror porn, no constant rain of bullying instructions.
QED.

70656 ▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to annie, 1, #1125 of 1806 🔗

100%

70614 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to BobT, 3, #1126 of 1806 🔗

People are easily manipulated as history shows again and again.

Personally, I never bother to down vote anything and only click an up vote when my my intellect is stimulated or my gut is left shaking with laughter. I don’t feel the need to pile on an opposing viewpoint with down vote nor do I bother with debate. That’s just me and I notice all too well I’m in the tiny minority.

I always fall back on the timeless lyric “nobody’s right, if everybody’s wrong” heard in For What It’s Worth. Just a bunch of powerless folks (in everyday life) pointing fingers and laying judgment upon this group and that group and we’re right and they’re wrong. It’s like high school never ends and social media enables people to be the dicks they really are deep down inside.

You know, it’s fine having to be proper and all to get through everyday life with a steady paycheque but come quittin time I gotta go on the internet and take my frustrations out on stupid people. I cringe whenever I read somebody calling someone/something stupid. I last called someone stupid back in grade 4. I definitely made that someone cry too.

I gave up on humanity long ago. I think we deserve whatever is coming. Collectively we are just not up to the job of looking out for each other.

70628 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to BobT, 6, #1127 of 1806 🔗

I would agree about social media, but I hark back to Diana’s funeral. I think the public then were almost as ’emotional’ and hysterical as they are now.

70639 ▶▶ Biker, replying to BobT, 7, #1128 of 1806 🔗

Your problem being you can’t see the invisible hand and it’s not Adam Smith’s (unfortunately). We do indeed have a cabal of people trying to control the world and our leaders are bought and paid for by them. Not only our leaders but people in positions in jobs you don’t even know exist are bought and paid for. How do we know Toby ain’t one of them? They do like to play both sides. How else do you explain things like BLM where they’ve got millions of people complaining and rioting about fuck all whatsoever? Blacks, whites, chinks, no matter who, they see us all as cattle, your perceived culture means fuck all to these one world fuckers. Trump showing us now matter how many rocks you turn over and replace you find the same people under them. They will lie their whole life just in case they have an opportunity to do what the cabal want.
Ask yourself this, why do the same families own all the land and most of the worlds largest companies, hold the government positions as have done for the last few hundred years? The UK has been taken over since the 30’s and cute fat Boris is in on it. The useless tossers in the Labour party are in on it, the weirdo faggots in the Liberal party are in on it. The police are controlled by them. You have no say over any of it. Social Media is an illusion, it detracts from all that and allows people the comfort of talking bollocks to people whom like reading the ramblings of their friends. There is no free enterprise, no proper capitalism, no real opportunity for laissez-faire business. It’s all rigged and you’re just an economic unit to be explored and thrown aside and don’t you be thinking you’ve a choice because you don’t. You’re worthless to them. You’re not even food for them. Obviously lies like the virus prove than most people are brain damaged and just don’t have the cognitive abilities to see it. This is brought about by a piss poor education and chemicals in the food. We live in a chemical soup with electrical interference from cell towers. There is no escape, we are all fucked. They can, and will, do anything they want. They can tell lies so big you can’t see the edge, they will make you do things you can’t possibly do and best of all most people will back them because they’ve been hypnotised. You included it seems since you don’t seem to be able to see the invisible hand. We are at war and the day is coming where you’ll either fight or die. Me i don’t give two fucks for the lot of them. I’m gonna get my kicks any way i can but don’t get me wrong, given an opportunity to shut them down i’d take it in a second. I resent how i’ve been denied my right to live my one and only life in the universe in my own way by these tyrants.
As George Carlin says it’s a big club and you aint in it.

70724 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Biker, #1129 of 1806 🔗

It is not a big club compared to those of us not it it. It’s a tiny group of evil.

https://youtu.be/H6b70TUbdfs

(I realise this isn’t about the hidden hand but it gets the point across very well).

70910 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, #1130 of 1806 🔗

Good post. Although I think we, or possibly our fear, might well be food for them. Hope I taste vile.

70644 ▶▶ Sally, replying to BobT, 5, #1131 of 1806 🔗

Add in the medicalisation of the population, which has been proceeding apace since the 1960s. Medicine is the new priesthood, and along with this people have lost faith in the recuperative powers of their bodies and their capacity to cope with illness. The younger generations in particular have been thoroughly medicalised and they are enthusiastic members of the coronavirus cult.

70753 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sally, 1, #1132 of 1806 🔗

Excellent point. Every life event now completely medicalised. The scandal of polypharmacy in the elderly is particularly disgraceful.

70672 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to BobT, 1, #1133 of 1806 🔗

Bob, Thanks for your views and thanks for coming back here. I tend to date the real dumbing down of news websites (BBC) with the change in HTML coding that made it far easier to have a screen full of big pictures. This was to enable phone screens to display web content better. I remember the early BBC website was heavily text based and the articles were worth reading. After the change to make it easier for phones to display the web, the content of the articles quickly degraded and became all about the pictures, click bait came in for the headlines, and unnecessary links proliferated to point to other “if you like this, then you might like that” type non articles. So I blame the phone companies for distorting and spoiling the web for us PC users. Social media of course has not helped with its emoting and simplistic ‘likes’ and emojiis, but they have gone in lock step with mobile technology.

The other thing is that studies have shown that people cannot comphrehend online text in the same way that they can the written page, that goes for websites on PCs primarily, but fed into the design of sites for mobile phones, whereby all long-read type articles are basically banished or design away as much as possible. Hence more dumbing down and lowest common denominator.

That’s my take on it anyway.

70747 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BobT, #1134 of 1806 🔗

I think you are right to see social media as a malign force in all this. Though I think it’s generally a mistake to look for one big Cause in any of these big issue problems.Big problems generally have multiple causes, in my experience. My favourite example is the Iraq War, for which lots of people had an explanation in the nefarious machinations of their particular favourite lobby or interest group, whereas the truth imo was always that multiple groups were involved in pushing the lies that justified that war on us, and probably no one group could have achieved it.

But for sure, the malign effects of social media have clearly been a big part of it. Though the changes in our societies that have made us so much less robust than we were are may and various imo.

accused two ‘nom de plumes’ of being racist in their posts regarding the BLM movemen t”

Re downvotes, I think in this community accusing people of racism is more recognised as the illegitimate personal abuse it is, than is the case in wider media circles. Accusing anyone of racism should be regarded as morally equivalent to using a racist slur against someone, because the term has been so dishonestly used for so long. The only exception imo is when it is used against the people who themselves use the smear term as a weapon to silence dissent.

70898 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to BobT, #1135 of 1806 🔗

I find it hard to believe that it is caused by a single extraordinarily rich person using their wealth and power to manipulate all of us, neither a global power trying to dominate us, so there has to be another explanation.

You maybe want to examine why you find it hard, Bob. Unsettling stuff to examine, and many previously unsuspected personal issues and worldviews may need facing. But “I find it hard” won’t convince many other people.

70609 Eddie, replying to Eddie, 19, #1136 of 1806 🔗

I’ve just clicked on to the Daily Mail front page and my heart sank. It’s like being locked in an alternate reality where you keep thinking it will soon end but it just gets more ridiculous and sinister with each passing day. Second wave, here we go, here we go!!

70616 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Eddie, 5, #1137 of 1806 🔗

DM comments, of the Worst Rated at least a dozen are “stupid working class northers”, supposedly posted by twats down south. Manipulated Divide & Rule.

70884 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1138 of 1806 🔗

Yep, 77,

70883 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Eddie, #1139 of 1806 🔗

If it makes your heart sink that easily, PEK, you should maybe avoid the MSM.

70610 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 9, #1140 of 1806 🔗

Did my bit for the local economy yesterday by visiting the computer accessories shop round the corner. Modems are not his usual thing but he found and ordered one I want.
He says I’ll be able to collect it later today (Friday), bloody hope so since I’ve paid for it and if we get local lockdown his shop won’t be classed as essential !

70755 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1141 of 1806 🔗

09.45 just got a text from the computer store, my monitor awaits collection, do your worst handcock .

70625 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 13, #1142 of 1806 🔗

To put this government’s actions in perspective, 10,000 deaths is the loss of life incurred by the U.S. Army during the landings and subsequent operations on Omaha beach on D-Day 1944, the bloodiest of the beach landings that day. The British, Canadian and Polish armies lost 16,000 men driving the German Army out of Normandy between June and August 1944. Any British General, today, responsible for the loss of one tenth of that figure would be instantly dismissed. British Armed Forces lost 405 lives to enemy action in Afghanistan over a period of 14 years. The Falklands War had total deaths of just less than 1,000 men, on both sides.

This country’s pusillanimous representatives declined even to have a second vote on an aerial bombing intervention, or any other intervention, in Syria in 2013 because of the fear of casualties.

And yet, in front of all too few disbelieving eyes, thousands of lives have been unnecessarily cut short over the last few months in this country as a consequence of this government’s actions.

‘”The people who today say they would have done more for those poor, persecuted Jews… I really believe that they sincerely mean it,” she said in interviews for A German Life. “But they wouldn’t have done it either.”

“I wouldn’t see myself as being guilty,” she said. “Unless you end up blaming the entire German population for ultimately enabling that government to take control. That was all of us. Including me.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38793048

70674 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Tim Bidie, #1143 of 1806 🔗

Battle of the Somme had 58 thousand casualties, dead and wounded, on the first day going over the top. Slaughter!

70693 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sue, 1, #1144 of 1806 🔗

I hope a relevant question. How did tgose 58 thousand do it.?Believing or coercion, not only the death massive count of dead men but a massive participation of something so wrong to life. Yet, there was the next day and the next.

70738 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 3, #1145 of 1806 🔗

You joined up because your mates, your brothers, your cousins were joining up. You did it because everybody else was doing it and you would earn the scorn of society for “cowardice” if you didn’t.

You learned discipline while training. You were taught the routines to follow until they became instinctive. You learned to empty your mind of everything when it was you, your rifle, and a target in your sights. Nothing else mattered.

You went over the top because they would shoot you if you didn’t. You went over the top because your mates, your brothers and your cousins were going over the top. You relied on them and they relied on you.

You went over the top because it was the next bloke who copped it, not you. The bullets hit other men, not you. The shells landed in other places, not the patch of mud you were crossing.

And if you survived the day, you knew you were back in the reserves and it was some other mug’s turn.

He was the one who was going to stop a packet. Not you.

70878 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1146 of 1806 🔗

Good post Nick. Especially

You went over the top because they would shoot you if you didn’t.

70748 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Basics, 1, #1147 of 1806 🔗

The first war was run by the public school ‘elite’ in uniform who had little/no experience and thought it “a jolly good show and we’ll show those jerries a thing or two” as they supped their port in the gentleman’s clubs down Pall Mall.
Before the Somme attach they thought that the bombardment of the german line had wiped them out, but found out otherwise when machines opened up. But still the command sent more troops over the top – arrogant, incompetent and negligent.
The troops had no choice but follow orders or be court martialled and probably shot – so under fear no doubt, and in those days people followed orders much more!

70627 Will, 19, #1148 of 1806 🔗

Waking up to this ridiculous news makes me even more confident that there isn’t going to be anything resembling a second wave of the virus. The government are getting desperate to show they are “beating” the virus.

70629 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 4, #1149 of 1806 🔗

Silverstone grand Prix this weekend. Surprise surprise a driver and crew have tested positive.

70630 ▶▶ Biker, replying to stefarm, 3, #1150 of 1806 🔗

question is will it make them go faster?

70673 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to stefarm, #1151 of 1806 🔗

I refuse to go on any of the sites to look this up, but I assume all absolutely fine and wouldn’t be the slightest bit concerned if any normal year (people weren’t insisting on testing them)?

70686 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Mark II, #1152 of 1806 🔗

Indeed, a super fit grand Prix driver who has tested positive.

Convenient and no danger to anyone of he does have it.

70632 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #1153 of 1806 🔗

Is there a psychological phenomenon whereby the first story that someone hears about something becomes fixed in their brain and nothing will shift it? If so, I think that’s what we’re seeing here. Intelligent friends, with degrees, are convinced that there’s ‘something different’ about Covid and they still believe we are defenceless against this ‘novel’ coronavirus. These were the first stories told about SARS-Cov-2 back at the start of the year. Demonstrating evidence to the contrary becomes an exercise in trying to undermine ‘the truth’. People like us are seen as trying to chip away at people’s resolve, so we’re always going to be seen in a negative light.

70641 ▶▶ Sally, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #1154 of 1806 🔗

An idée fixe, monomania, delusion? All are appropriate descriptors.

70664 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1155 of 1806 🔗

If you publically commit to the first story then there is a real psychological phenomenon. It is harder to backtrack once you have committed. Car salesman rely on it.

70872 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to mhcp, 1, #1156 of 1806 🔗

A lie is half-way around the world before the truth has got its pants on. A common feature of all false flag events over the past half century.

So, yes, there is an unthinking psychological attachment to the first ‘story’ one hears.

70633 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 13, #1157 of 1806 🔗

I can’t fathom the big picture of this situation, it was great to actually speak to and laugh with a complete stranger yesterday. We both agreed mother nature is a bitch, whether it be fire, famine, disease or floods.

Death isn’t a good thing but as we both agreed the elderly who have died would die anyway, the circumstances in which they have died is disgusting and if there is a god the wankers in power should be struck down. We both agreed we can only die once but our gallows humour did prompt us to say that we wouldn’t be surprised if Boris dug them up and killed them again.

The virus has gone or mutated to something that will not kill us.

My point I’m trying to make is floods. Is Boris using this covid as his chance to show that he can control mother nature and save us from doom. The floods were very visual and didn’t need any brainwashing or propaganda (apart from the army rescuing the elderly in 3 foot of water or images of people sitting on top of their car).

Boris and his advisors have had total control of covid, they new that the elderly in care homes were in danger but were seen as ‘low hanging fruit’ (apologies, I hate that expression). They have controlled the narrative from the beginning, wearing a mask keeps us quiet and compliant and they can punish us with local lockdowns and rules and rumours of a vaccine.

Sorry, a bit of a rambling load of tosh my brain finds it hard to switch off.

70642 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to stefarm, 15, #1158 of 1806 🔗

Is Boris using this covid as his chance to show that he can control mother nature and save us from doom. ‘ It does seem that many of the powers that be think they can do what King Canute failed to do and contol nature. Does anyone really believe this idea of zero Covid? Nobody has ever eliminated Flu or the common cold and they are coronaviruses. Biological sytems are dynamic and changeable, it seems to me that, based on history, a more likely scenario is that the virus will mutate again and people’s immune systems will adapt and things will settle down.
And so at present all the more reason to avoid this monstrous test & trace system that is simply feeding the Covid over-reacting world we live in. Interstingly if I put this comment about testing on facebook it would probably see me zapped!

At greater risk to my health is listening to the BBC Covid news and so it is back to Bob Marley at the moment!

70667 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #1159 of 1806 🔗

Just a point: Canute didn’t try to control the waves. He sat out on his throne and showed that man cannot control Nature. It was a point to his advisors that the government/leaders at the time are fallible

70669 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Steve Martindale, #1160 of 1806 🔗

Great music choice steve, ages since i’ve heard a bit of bob…think i’ll play “don’t worry about a thing, cause every little thing’s gonna be alright…” and try and convince myself there is light at end of dark tunnel 😀

70682 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Steve Martindale, 2, #1161 of 1806 🔗

[WE] [Will] [Have] [Covid] [Zero] and when we do it will sitch to corona zero. First part in Darlek voice.

The plague vanished in seven years so we can expect the same. Only thia little pet virus isn’t not killing as many decision makers as frank I would like. The outcome of this play virus is not going leave peasant in a position to demand better rights and much fairer pay. It’s a curious fact that there are differences between the two pestilences. I wonder if all the plague deaths of 1347 were actually people dying of being locked up and starved to death. I wonder if in years to come deaths we see will be catecorised a death by propaganda. Many actually will have propaganda as part of tge cause moseso than c19.

70635 The Spingler, replying to The Spingler, 21, #1162 of 1806 🔗

I’m confused. If masks make all the difference to transmission rates that they are made mandatory in shops why on earth, instead of stopping people visiting other homes in Northern England, simply make people wear masks on their visits. Problem solved.

Unless of course masks are actually useless and the government are fully aware of this…..

70665 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to The Spingler, #1163 of 1806 🔗

The problem is that’s where this does end up, judging by the wonderful ole u s of a, masks all times outdoors then masks even in homes.

70864 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, #1164 of 1806 🔗

The US of A is 50-odd quite different states. Some lap it up, others make masks illegal.

70636 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 11, #1165 of 1806 🔗

I saw a Morrisons worker yesterday really struggling with his mask. I often see him, he is chief trolley collector and clearly massively overweight, as wide as he is tall, possibly a medical condition.

He struggles to breathe in normal circumstances but he was struggling big time yesterday. Going to be a scorcher in Edinburgh today, hope he is ok.

But it’s ok as we are all in this together right.

70640 ▶▶ Biker, replying to stefarm, -23, #1166 of 1806 🔗

i hope the fat cunt collapses and dies, fuck him and his mask. Another dumb fuck bites the dust, good.

70659 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 15, #1167 of 1806 🔗

No one going to call this out? Ok, I will.

What an absolutely disgraceful comment to put on here.

That person more than likely doesn’t want to wear a mask and is probably only doing so through peer pressure, fear of being shamed, has been overwhelmed with the mass scaremongering that is leaving everyone confused, or maybe he has a medical condition and feels he needs to be protected.

If you go through the posts on here most people are wearing masks, even though they’re against then, even you said you wore one last week.

You’re a fucking prick posting these disgusting comments.

No one called you out for your shitty posts to other people on here last week, but you really ought to fuck off, it’s because of pricks like you that sceptics aren’t taken seriously!

70663 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to JohnB, 1, #1168 of 1806 🔗

skipper, I believe Biker is a Pict. So he’s probably taking the piss with a shake of truth in there.

70666 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to mhcp, 1, #1169 of 1806 🔗

Yes, the piss is being taken, nobody seriously believes that Biker really wishes the poor guy dead.

70857 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Gillian, #1170 of 1806 🔗

Biker doesn’t like Fridays.

70661 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Biker, 1, #1171 of 1806 🔗

Biker, the poor guy can’t help being a victim of an SNP education. All capacity to think for himself has been schooled out of him. He will no doubt believe that independence trump’s everything, even one’s own health.

70676 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Biker, 2, #1172 of 1806 🔗

TBF the way i feel at the moment I thought the same. Sorry everyone, I obviously don’t wish him dead but someone is going to die from wearing a mask.

70678 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Biker, #1173 of 1806 🔗

Good on you Biker! 🤣 👍🏻

70650 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to stefarm, 7, #1174 of 1806 🔗

Next time you see him, tell him about the exemption cards (and this site). Anything we can do to help people like him is vitally important.

71093 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1175 of 1806 🔗

Well said Mr Dee. Excellent advice I’d say.

70638 TJN, replying to TJN, 6, #1176 of 1806 🔗

Hi All,

Major ethical conundrum this morning: I actually have a cold. First one I’ve caught since lockdown. And I need lemsips.

So what do I do?

Even I hesitate to go into a shop at the moment sneezing and spluttering muzzle-less. And I’m not wearing a muzzle. I never get any sympathy from Mrs TJN, so I doubt she will go out for me. Looks as if I might have to go without the lemsips, and stick with whisky instead.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Incidentally, I blame all those sheep fiddling and playing with their filthy rags when I was out shipping last weekend – a perfect way to spread disease.

70647 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to TJN, 5, #1177 of 1806 🔗

A message for Mrs TJN – Please buy Lemsips for your husband. Thank you.

At least you don’t have hay fever like my wife and step-son. They might as well be shuffling round town with a bell round their necks carrying an ‘unclean’ placard.

70655 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1178 of 1806 🔗

I do get rhinitus badly. That was going to be my reason for not wearing a muzzle, but all my google searches says muzzles might actually help.

Mrs TJN has just seen your post and laughed.

70690 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to TJN, 1, #1179 of 1806 🔗

I also have rhinitis and have a prescribed spray for it. One of my reasons for exemption, lumped under respiratory issues. The problem is that the exemptions are stated pretty vaguely. I also qualify for ‘disability making taking off masks impossible’. I have to spend several minutes disentangling my hearing aids from the mask when I take it off. All my exemption reasons are minor but they add up – but difficult to easily explain if (incorrectly) challenged.

70707 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to TJN, #1180 of 1806 🔗

Get some good quality Vit-C powder.

make up a drink of 1-2 scoops Vit-C powder (My protein and bulk powders are good), cold water, squeeze lemon juice (bottled is fine) or ribena, sea salt and water.

Take 3 or 4 times a day along with Vit D3 tablets or half an hour in the sun shirt off

Supplement with 2-3000 mg good quality Vit-C tablets twice daily.

Works wonders, add whisky and a little honey to make it more hot toddy like.

70778 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to TJN, 2, #1181 of 1806 🔗

Drink too much single malt, slowly.

70860 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to TJN, 1, #1182 of 1806 🔗

Don’t bother. Take some paracetamol if you’ve got a headache you can’t beat, otherwise roll with the symptoms, they’re side effects of your immune system making you better. Lemsip is just paracetamol plus a ‘decongestant’:
‘It is thought paracetamol reduces fever by affecting an area of the brain that regulates our body temperature (the hypothalamic heat-regulating center). The paracetamol in Lemsip max cold & flu direct sachets helps relieve aches, pains, sore throats and fever associated with colds and flu.

Phenylephrine is a type of medicine called a decongestant. It works by acting on alpha receptors that are found in the walls of blood vessels in the linings of the nasal passages and sinuses. It causes these blood vessels to contract and narrow, thereby decreasing blood flow into the linings of the nose and sinuses. This reduces the feeling of congestion and also reduces the production of mucus, helping to relieve a blocked nose.’

As someone else says, lemon juice, Ribena/cassis and honey in hot water, take it out and laze about in the sunshine!

71100 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Bruno, #1183 of 1806 🔗

Thanks for all of the above. Still no lemsips (although after this morning’s announcements I’m tempted to go ou anyway).

I usually have lemsip with whisky, often with a bit of the drowsy Benylin cough mixture. I’ll have to stick with the whisky this time, and have extra tots.

I’ll probably survive the cold – it’s whether I keep my ethical conscience intact that’s the question.

About the only place I can have picked it up was out and about shopping from last Friday – Muzzle Day. I’ve sort of added evidence to my own theory that muzzles spread disease.

71874 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to TJN, #1184 of 1806 🔗

You don’t need lemsip – it’s mostly paracetamol!

At this time of year it’s possibly just rhinitis and not an infection.

Drink plenty of water, take lots of vitamin c and don’t be a manflu wimp.

Enjoy your whisky.

70643 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 20, #1185 of 1806 🔗

Is anyone here a reformed Covidian? Is there anyone here who was taken in by the Covid hysteria and has now seen the light? If so, it would be interesting to hear their experiences and what was going on in their mind.

My impression is that we were all fully formed as sceptics by the time this web site came into being.

Personally, I think I was ahead of the curve on Covid. Back in January, probably, I was very aware of the virus and psyching myself up for what was coming: something like Spanish flu; some of us were going to die, and of course I was worried about the ‘novel’ aspect and that we had no immunity. I would talk about the virus to people back then, and just get blank stares. They had heard about it, but presumed that ‘something would turn up’ to stop it. And I knew that we might end up with severe economic consequences if we had to ‘lock down’ for several weeks.

But then I began reading between the lines of what the scientists and politicians were saying – this wasn’t as bad as feared. If we hadn’t been told about it in the first place, we would have assumed it was ‘flu. When Boris and his sidekicks initially joked about it, and then subsequently espoused ‘herd immunity’ I was overjoyed. Getting the disease wasn’t a great prospect, but at least sanity had prevailed. At the back of my mind, I couldn’t quite believe it, however…

From then on, every step of the way, they have never ceased to confirm my worst fears: that we were going to, basically, commit suicide. Even at that time, I knew that this was not going to end after a few weeks. Every single day since then I have wondered what the end game is.

70645 ▶▶ Basileus, replying to Barney McGrew, 15, #1186 of 1806 🔗

It was obvious from the start that this was an over-reaction. Even with Ferguson’s inflated projections there was no way the cost of the lockdown could be justified in terms of potential lives saved. In fact it has been much worse than that because of those who have or will die due to the lockdown (200,000?).

70646 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Barney McGrew, 12, #1187 of 1806 🔗

“The cure is worse than the disease” – is a phrase that came to my mind as soon as the lock down began. Two other phrases/quote have been:- “We have nothing to fear but fear itself” (a slight misquote) and “No thanks, I’ll die with my boots on.” Charles Hawtrey

70654 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Ned of the Hills, 5, #1188 of 1806 🔗

Agree with all of that, Ned.

Also for me – purely by fluke – the last book I read before lockdown was Camus’ The Plague. I’ve therefore got a bit more of a philosophical outlook on the whole ‘crisis’. Avoiding the news helps.

Anyone who thinks health = wellbeing is a fool and needs wide-berthing like…err…the plague.

70675 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1189 of 1806 🔗

The numbers coming out of China from a population of 1.4 billion in spite of the fact that 5 million fled from Wuhan before lockdown, Pantsdown’s visit to his lover at the height of the panicdemic, searching for facts about the virus and coming across Dr Wolfgang Wodarg’s video-these were some of the things which made me realise very early on it was all overblown.

My OH took a bit longer. He couldn’t get to grips with the fact that governments all over the world were in with the scam. He has got to grips with it now though-and some!

70694 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #1190 of 1806 🔗

Peter Hitchen’s first blog after Lockdown was announced gave me the courage of my conviction that the Government’s decision was fundamentally flawed, as did his Spiked interview with Brendan O’Neill (In this lockdown, dissent is a moral duty). I then found the Swiss Doctor site, which has provided me with a balanced and scientific source of information throughout this farce. I think I happened upon this site after reading a Hitchen’s article. In fact, I think I owe Messirs Hitchens and Young my sanity. Thank you both!

But I was aware that something wasn’t right when it hit Italy. I enjoy watching Mr Icke’s podcast, and he was calling bullshit way back then – though I took it all with a pinch of salt until I’d researched his claims and sources for myself.

I knew we were having a Lockdown about a week before it happened by reading sources on the UK government site. All the signs were there. I’ve been a Lockdown Sceptic before the lockdown even started.

70788 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1191 of 1806 🔗

Likewise which is why I chose to self isolate for the week before johnson told us to stay home since the schools had closed and many offices with everyone mooching about infecting each other with what then looked like a very nasty disease.
2 weeks later came Peak Mortality and all has been getting better since.

70843 ▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1192 of 1806 🔗

Me too, Mr Dee. When the first rumblings started, I looked up Jon Rappoport, who was good during the foot and mouth outbreak, and also the SARS panic (I was living in Taiwan during the latter, and there was a good deal of fear around there: though, despite it being a eastern country where, we are being told, “people always wear them”, masks were not generally worn). From Rappoports no-more-fake-news blog there was a link to an Off Guardian article by Catte Black, and from there to the Swiss Doctor site, which has been a terrific source of factual information throughout. Then Peter Hitchens gave a whole lot of useful links, especially to In Proportion. The only propaganda I’ve been force-fed has been on Classic FM, which churns out several government fear messages at every commercial break. The worst one, at present, is a spooky voice warning against the evil spreaders of disinformation, who are referred to as “The Beast”. Swap “Beast” for “BBC”, and the message would be bang on.

70696 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #1193 of 1806 🔗

Having seen Press frenzies before, and knowing how wrong they nearly always are about nearly everything, I doubted this from the very beginning. It was a thing I kept my eye on from early January. I remained ambivalent until the lockdown. When people at work started demanding a lockdown, I was saying that was the last thing we needed.

For me, the icing on my scepticism was the way everybody advising the government completely ignored the real world petri dish of the “Diamond Princess”, the cruise ship quarantined in Yokohama Harbour. Real world data, and they ignored it, claiming that “nobody knew” how the pathogen would behave. For God’s sake, the ship even has its own entry on Worldometer’s Coronavirus page.

I used to believe that “Project Fear” had the opposite effect than intended. Perhaps Scottish Independence and Brexit were too abstract for PF to have an effect, and most people I spoke to were fairly entrenched in their view long before either referendum. Neither of those causes, no matter our view on either, are life-threatening. This one seemed different, at the beginning anyway. People feared for their families, their friends, their own lives.

I do feel that people have begun to wake up, even if cautiously. Only last month, Toby was pointing out that the comments reached over a thousand if he didn’t post on any given day. Now our comments reach over a thousand every day .

Sooner, rather than later, the government is going to misstep in a way that even the sheeple will notice. Perhaps it will be the P45s. Perhaps it will be the lack of “second wave”. Perhaps it will be something nobody foresaw. But it will come. And the people’s anger at being “had” will know no bounds.

70832 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #1194 of 1806 🔗

Hopefully many many people receiving P45s will trigger something, not that I want to see mass unemployment, but people need shocking out of their slumbers.

70844 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1195 of 1806 🔗

I don’t either. I’ve warned on other sites of the unemployment to come thanks to lockdown. I’ve always qualified it with “I hope I am very, very wrong”. I still do hope I’m very wrong concerning the unemployment. But it’s a fading, forlorn hope.

70741 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1196 of 1806 🔗

I originally a neutral and being data-driven was glued to all the numbers early on. To be honest I was a bit freaked out by the Lombardy epidemic. But I began to smell a rat once over here, nurses were filming dance routines and the nightingales were gathering dust. The sceptical content made more sense and I was convinced by mid May. I found this site from one of Toby’s Spectator articles.

70838 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to DRW, 1, #1197 of 1806 🔗

I think it was over 20 years ago I encountered Jon Rappoport’s investigative journalism for the first time. The truth has been available for that long, folks.

Now, how do we catch up ? 🙂

70848 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to JohnB, 1, #1198 of 1806 🔗

Was that during the foot and mouth massacre, John ? That’s when I first started reading his blog, and that was the first source I went to in February.

71129 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Gillian Swanson, #1199 of 1806 🔗

Ooh, err, memory …

I think it was HIV/Aids I first started reading him. Deffo F&M too.

70776 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1200 of 1806 🔗

The prophecy of doom from Ferguson was the final straw for me. He has never been right, the uselessness of his models is public knowldege. and I could not see any reason to believe them this time.

70794 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1201 of 1806 🔗

Semi reformed covidian possibly. Being a selfish sod and something of a hypochondriac, with an unpleasant serious health episode in my past, and an unhealthy obsession with death, I was fairly worried at the start. But I am curious by nature so I set about trying to find out more about the actual risks, to me – I guess hoping to find some reassurance I wasn’t about to die. The more I looked into it the more I saw that made me smell a rat and the more it seemed like the reaction was not justified – the lack of a cost-benefit analysis didn’t sit right with me.

70842 ▶▶ Lorenzo Basso, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1202 of 1806 🔗

I bought into the fear at first, and was fairly anxious about going outside for the first week or so of house arrest. Once the absurdity of the rules started to pile up (you can go for a walk but you can’t sunbathe), I looked at the data a bit more closely and started to become sceptical. Three months into a three-week lockdown I couldn’t understand how most people still seemed to be accepting this uncritically. It still baffles me.

70893 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1203 of 1806 🔗

As a data analyst by trade I had doubts from the start as the data didn’t reflect the media hyperbole. There was no contextualisation. I read through the Imperial paper at the time and could see that it was assuming an R rate from a very limited dataset and it was assuming a Day 0 in the UK that just couldn’t be correct. Something that virulent had to have been here earlier, and that makes a big difference. When we locked down I thought it was ridiculous as we were already at or past the peak and have yet to see anything to change my mind. One of the funny smells at the time was the emergency hospitals that got built in China that went empty, something we repeated months later!

I only found this site a few weeks ago and was amazed to find people having the same conversations I had been having with my wife for months. An oasis of sanity.

71058 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #1204 of 1806 🔗

As a key worker I was out & about from March 23rd. I know a bit of history and that occasionally something new and nasty comes along so frankly it was à bit scary at first.
Figured out the propaganda straight away
“Stay Home Save The NHS Save Lives” =
‘Ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer’. Easy trick always comes in threes.

I don’t watch telly so was spared the worst of the BBC but it was the ambulances that told me it was probably bollocks.
I could drive around town for ten minutes and see no other vehicles then along comes an ambulance with its sirens blaring. Why, I was the only other car in sight ? This happened throughout the day, not all the time but enough to become unsurprising.

The public toilets were all closed so I took yo using those at the hospital 2 or 3 times a day. Dunno what the ambulances were going but they were not taking patients there.

On one arterial road were the designated emergency morgue, a hotel to be used as the Covid recovery unit and the supposed site of the new Nightingale hospital, no activity, ever.
Just the sirens day and night which I concluded were to cow the lockdown population to stay indoors.

I was already following a couple of independent bloggers whose interests naturally turned to Covid/lockdown and whose contributors brought me here and to Hector Drummond and his wonderful Statistics.

71581 ▶▶ stevie119, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1205 of 1806 🔗

I am naturally a suspicious and contrary old git that instinctively distrusts all that government says. At the beginning things did look a bit scary but, even then, some things just didn t seem to add up. I did some research for myself and found out that it was all driven by the modelling and predictions of a gentleman by the name of Ferguson. I then discovered his impressive track record of being spectacularly wrong about everything and that was it. I stumbled across this site and have been here ever since - though not commenting much as I couldn t think of much I could usefully add. However I have managed to convert several friends and family. I am proud of this. They no longer have to live in constant fear. Sadly it has not worked on my sister. If my elderly parents go out and about, they have to ensure she doesn`t find out. FFS!

70648 mhcp, 3, #1206 of 1806 🔗

I’ve been thinking more and more about collective and systematic effects.

As was shown in the vape video a typical cloth mask just redirects any aerosol to the side so it’s not infront but still suspended. A simple 5 second test shows this.

The systematic thing is that say a mask helps protect others. But then prolonged mask wearing may make you ill what with fibres, bacteria etc. So you allegedly help others but then injure yourself. The collective effect is more sick people.

Then there’s the “my body, my choice” as to not wear a mask. But then you can injure someone else. Okay, if you just looked at the figures then maybe in the exaggerated worst case there may be another say 10,000 deaths from all the non-mask wearers (number has been pulled out of my arse btw).

Another “my body, my choice” results in over 200,000 deaths a year. i.e. abortion.

I’m not against having laws that allow abortion. But there are collective consequences from not thinking things through or seeing only local and short term effects

70651 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 3, #1207 of 1806 🔗

The male BAME presenter on GMB when Leicester lockdown came into play (something along the lines of);
‘It needs to be said – and I feel comfortable in saying it – that there are certain Asian communities in focus’.

This morning speaking to Andy Burnham;
‘We must not start pointing the finger’.

Pathetic, Uncle Tom.

70671 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 10, #1208 of 1806 🔗

GMB a couple of day ago when they were having a debate about people going back to work were saying “This is a disease that is still as big a killer as when we first locked down, so why should people expect to go back to work, it isn’t safe!”

It’s never gonna get any less of a killer, Flu, HIV/AIDS, Syphiliis, Measles, TB, never become less of a killer they still have the same potency.

What we have to do is get out there and carry on like before, but we can’t now because the scaremongering has left the majority of this country so mentally fragile that they are too scared to come out from beneath they’re beds.

70652 peter charles, #1209 of 1806 🔗

I listened to a Spectator coffee house podcast last night given the title “Why are England’s excess deaths so high?”. The only “answer” given, attributed to the PM by James Forsyth, was that we did not lock down soon enough. Lockdown, lockdown, l ockdown , LOCKDOWN. Is there anything else in these peoples heads?

70660 mjr, replying to mjr, 7, #1210 of 1806 🔗

well. you think things are improving.
then this morning .. out for my regular walk around the country park. 6,30 not many people out. Then i see in the distance an old guy dressed for walking but wearing a nappy. too far away to ask him why.
then see that the North is locked down. i wonder what the connection is between all these northern towns.. Maybe they have decided that whippets are carriers – or black puddings carry the virus.
And the likes of Andy Burnham are ok with this. 38- 50 cases per 100000 <0.05%!!!

70680 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to mjr, 9, #1211 of 1806 🔗

Anyone would think they don’t want us to get herd immunity.

70685 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1212 of 1806 🔗

Interesting point.

70691 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1213 of 1806 🔗

The Asian community are anti-vaccine, generally, and they know what’s coming?

70670 mjr, replying to mjr, 3, #1214 of 1806 🔗

new buzzword,,,, Mingling ….. this is apparently the cause of the problem.. mingling is now illegal !!

70679 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to mjr, 1, #1215 of 1806 🔗

God, read that as “minging” (Scots for having a personal hygiene issue or as we used to say BO).

70708 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Gillian, 4, #1216 of 1806 🔗

Minging mingling says ming the merciless. Andy burnham clown eyebrowns remind me of ming and he says mingling a lot. Ginger quack on GMB comes out with the high point of her career, no, life with the classic line – “you are much more likely to hug your granny than your cleaner”.

I have no issue with seeing these talking heads personally suffer. They are no different from the bastards we have all encountered throughout life. The only difference is these talking heads keep talking. They require some action to shut them uo permanently. Our country does not need them.

70833 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 1, #1217 of 1806 🔗

Mask … superglue … ?

71202 ▶▶▶▶▶ Saved To Death, replying to JohnB, 1, #1218 of 1806 🔗

There would be a non zero risk they might escape. We must achieve zero risk !

70681 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1219 of 1806 🔗

Shadow business minister Lucy Powell described the way in which the Government had announced the new coronavirus restrictions on parts of northern England as a ‘disaster’.
Speaking on Times Radio, the MP for Manchester Central said: ‘I mean announcing them two hours before they come into effect is a bit of a bolt out of the blue.
‘With no one around to be able to answer some of the basic questions, I really think is not the way to build confidence and to take people with you and maximise compliance with these steps.’
She said she was ‘none of the wiser’ about the data that has led to widespread restrictions on parts of northern England, including in her own constituency.
‘I follow the data extremely closely as a Member of Parliament and I’m still none the wiser about what the data is that has generated this action so swiftly across such a broad area’, she said.
‘If we had a much better track and trace system in place we’d be able to see much more clearly some of the localised nature or where these transmissions are actually occurring, and take action more strongly in a more localised fashion rather than across such a broad area.
‘We are still getting less than 50% of tests back within 24 hours and frankly that is just not good enough.’
‘There’s a huge number of questions here and it’s not clear to me what the data is that is sowing such significant change over the last few days that such widespread measures are necessary, and I think it’s something that I should know’.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8578133/Matt-Hancock-BANS-households-parts-Manchester-Lancashire-Yorkshire-meeting-indoors.html

70712 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #1220 of 1806 🔗

Oh really, ” ‘If we had a much better track and trace system in place we’d be able to see much more clearly” or perhaps if we all ignored test and trace, noted the low death rates and low hospital admissions we could stop all this nonsense and get on with life. It is frightening how many people have a touching faith oin the infallibility of the testing system, they want a black and white answer but it is biology, at best it is 50 shades of grey!
We need Nelson in charge of the test and trace system, ‘I see no ships’ lets go.
I am a retired biologist but I say given the way it is being used, avoid the test and trace system at all costs.

70791 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #1221 of 1806 🔗

Got a big shiny walk-in test centre in town. I’m treating it as a ‘walk away from’ centre.

70786 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1222 of 1806 🔗

She’s half right, and it’s a step in the right direction. Right question – where’s the data the justifies the action, what are the criteria? – wrong remedy.

70683 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #1223 of 1806 🔗

Andy Burnham, the Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester, urged locals to adhere to the new rules.’In Rochdale, the one borough where cases have fallen, they are still too high .

Oh fucking whoopee! So it can never get better, then.

70736 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1224 of 1806 🔗

Labour/Tories/SNP etc – all working together to destroy our lives

70684 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 6, #1225 of 1806 🔗

Just watched the bed wetter General Hancock on BBC. Its time for us to bombard him with e-mails/tweets etc to ask when is the review into the clearly deceptive reporting of deaths by PHE going to be completed. It can’t take more than a couple of days to add up the numbers?

You can contact him here:

matt.hancock.mp@parliament.uk

@MattHancock

70687 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mike Collins, #1226 of 1806 🔗

Take about as long to do it right as it took to do it wrong, surely?

70688 Mike Collins, replying to Mike Collins, 14, #1227 of 1806 🔗

Absolute hero NHS doctor saying it as it is. I hope somebody has a job for him when he gets sacked by the bed wetters.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1316775/coronavirus-second-wave-uk-covid-19-flu-nhs-dr-ron-daniels-lockdown

70697 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Mike Collins, 12, #1228 of 1806 🔗

Notice the description of his comments as a ‘shocking video rant’. Presumably this is designed to warn readers that the man is unhinged, and his opinions can’t be trusted.

It appears to be even worse for America’s Frontline Doctors, who are being described in the media as ‘so-called’ doctors!

The character assassination of anyone who questions the Government line is really quite alarming.

70699 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to DJ Dod, 5, #1229 of 1806 🔗

Rule no 1 discredit the witness.

MSM and government arseholes.

70919 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to DJ Dod, 1, #1230 of 1806 🔗

I was horrified by the way it was described – it was a calm, rational speech, absolutely not shocking or in any way a rant!

70723 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mike Collins, 5, #1231 of 1806 🔗

The doctor’s pretty much spot on. No surprise that we live in a society in which the truth is vilified and shamed, while lies are given the most prominent platforms. Some of us have known this since long before the coronapanic brought it to wider attention.

Absolute respect to the doctor for risking the real consequences of speaking out. The two areas in our society where it is genuinely brave to speak out against endemic lies are the coronapanic and BLM/antiracism. Respect is due to anyone who dares speak up in public despite the real consequences faced by many such truthtellers already.

70725 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mike Collins, 8, #1232 of 1806 🔗

Notice the pathetic comments from Starmer & Burnham, both ‘welcoming’ the stripping of freedoms. What an odd thing for any government to want to do, but an even more odd thing for an opposition to openly welcome. Grow a backbone labour, ffs, the most pathetic opposition in history (continuing Corbyns earlier work) with the most dangerous government we’ve ever had.

No one would argue with putting in place local action to reduce the transmission of coronavirus.” – Says Starmer. No one? These people are pure evil.

70751 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Mark II, #1233 of 1806 🔗

Agree. Very disappointing from Labour.

70797 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1234 of 1806 🔗

Only if one had expectations in the first place …

70785 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mike Collins, 3, #1235 of 1806 🔗

excellent – and the decsription ”shocking video rant” should get more people warching what is clearly a considered calm description of what the evidence is telling us…

70689 Geraint, replying to Geraint, 6, #1236 of 1806 🔗

Taste of things to come with inept HanDcock and cronies shutting down swathes of the country at the drop of a hat on a flimsy premise. Presumably on advice of Witless Whitty, Jon ‘Dangerous Moment’ Van Dam et al who’s hopes for a second wave to bolster their battered credibility are being engineered for them. Bombard all these morons…..

70698 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to Geraint, 11, #1237 of 1806 🔗

It has been this way since lockdown began, nonsensical guidelines that are now becoming silly. And it doesn’t matter whether that they are just guidelines, the vast majority of the public will interpret them as being law.

If this was happening in any other country than the UK then we would be calling it for what it is – a dictatorship. No parliamentary opposition, state sponsored MSM and a population in fear. A truly sad state of affairs.

There is little point now even trying to make sense of anything. Really, there isn’t. Otherwise one becomes anxious and frustrated because it is impossible for an educated brain to process things that make no sense. That is unless you have faith and believe. And one wonders how religion managed to rule the masses for so long before science.

70762 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Howie59, 6, #1238 of 1806 🔗

If this was happening in any other country than the UK then we would be calling it for what it is – a dictatorship.

I’m quite happy calling it a dictatorship here in the UK, Howie.

70711 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Geraint, 5, #1239 of 1806 🔗

he was on radio earlier and i caught a couple of minutes of him babbling on… lots of errrrs, pauses etc – he just doesn’t sound confident or credible to be a primary school teacher never mind gov minister.

70722 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Geraint, 4, #1240 of 1806 🔗

What religious holiday starts today that mean slots of meeting, eating and visiting friends and families?

It’s Eid Al Adha, a real big for Muslims.

What religion has a lot of members in the area “locked down”?

You guessed it.

70726 ▶▶▶ claire, replying to Awkward Git, #1241 of 1806 🔗

And whats the equivalent for non-muslims? Planning a November Xmas day just in case….

70733 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Awkward Git, 7, #1242 of 1806 🔗

Exceedingly insensitive and bad timing for this announcement on the night before Eid. I hope the community stick two fingers up to the government and have a good knees up!

70737 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sue, 4, #1243 of 1806 🔗

Yep.

I lived in the Middle East for years. It’s Christmas, new Year and Easter all in one big festival, probably the main Muslim holiday.

Not a god idea to interfere with it.

I agree, stuff Hancock and have the holiday.

70757 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Sue, 1, #1244 of 1806 🔗

They will!

70745 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1245 of 1806 🔗

Which is why it was rushd out with very little notice, but of course, they daren’t say why, for reasons of ‘community cohesion’ – something that doesn’t exist by the way. If the muslim community push back, then good for them, but I won’t be happy to have my customs, e.g. pubs, taken away because of the actions of people that don’t use same. But the government dare not be specific here, so it will be blanket ban.

Local officials in Rochdale will hold a meeting on Friday to decide whether current measures, already stricter than the rest of England, will be tightened as coronavirus cases continue to surge in the Manchester town…
It comes after organisers of the Islamic festival of Eid al-Adha are said to have persuaded health officials to enforce tighter lockdown measures amid fears of a local lockdown, according to the Sun.

70695 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1246 of 1806 🔗

Wonder why they are hiring for a ‘presenter’ for Autumn Press Conferences? I thought these had stopped. Unless they ‘know’ they are going to have something to talk about, perhaps something they have planned?

70701 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1247 of 1806 🔗

Probably to announce the new “COVIDPASS” digital passport that is being released.

70718 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to tallandbald, #1249 of 1806 🔗

Naaa, it’s ok. It “doesn’t include tracing technology”. That’s alright then…

70752 ▶▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1250 of 1806 🔗

No, no, honest it doesn’t – and there will be no forced updates that would ever change that, of course. You can trust these people, implicitly – honestly!

70756 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IanE, #1251 of 1806 🔗

Faraday cage. Or leave phone at home. Sorted.

70808 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, #1252 of 1806 🔗

Downloaded ‘Enemy Of The State’ the other day, to watch this weekend 🙂

71124 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, #1253 of 1806 🔗

One of my favourite films. 🙂

70735 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1254 of 1806 🔗

Bill Gates in an interview quite a while ago mention that after a virus he was expecting a terrorist bioweapon attack using a virus.

Will try and find the video if it is still around.

70700 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1255 of 1806 🔗

Is there a D-Notice in place?

If you try and find any mention of Whitty’s quote on the internet from the 21st July 2020:

“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”


The only hit I got on DuckDuckGo that refers to that committee hearing is this one:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/chris-whitty-defends-advising-ministers-that-it-was-entirely-practical-to-ditch-contact-tracing-in-march

No mention of the R numbers though.

Toby mentioned it once in passing then never again, Simon Dolan hasn’t put it on Twitter but he knows of it, UKColumn haven’t mentioned it, nothing in MSM and they won’t even acknowledge an e-mail with the quote in. All these are UK “based” so come under a notice.

Get the feeling it’s being hidden from the UK public?

70705 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Awkward Git, #1256 of 1806 🔗

You’re right, all mentions do seem to have disappeared from any search results… only things that come up searching for variety are from back in April, nothing of his recent admission of guilt.

70714 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Awkward Git, #1258 of 1806 🔗

Tried the wayback machine?

70719 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1259 of 1806 🔗

You can still download date transcript from the committee webpage a they cannot hide that a sit must be published:

https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/747/pdf/

But who, apart from a sceptical awkward git like me, is going to trawl through a lot of pages of blah blah blah too spot one short quote?

But it is not mentioned anywhere.

Will ahem to try a foreign based media site and get them to publish on the internet as they do not come under the d-notice restrictions.

70744 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1260 of 1806 🔗

The wayback machine can show it was published on other news sites though and then changed.

I’ve long had, possibly due to working on software involved in publishing technical documentation, a deep hatred of news sites that choose to not include change marking, footnotes of edits and in some cases even dates.

A classic example was the Groan’s article on Paul Manafort’s “visit” to Julian Assange, which turned out to be a fabrication. The Gurn surreptitiously editied the article something like 20 times to cover its tracks, but it could all be seen on the wayback machine.

70759 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Awkward Git, #1261 of 1806 🔗

I might be misunderstanding, but the Whitty ‘R’ quote is in the text at the link that you give. After the Heading ‘Examination of Witnesses’.

70822 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sam Vimes, #1262 of 1806 🔗

Awkward Git is referring to its removal from media sources, not that document.

70742 ▶▶ Will, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1263 of 1806 🔗

Just like Professor Woods conclusion that the peak of infections was on the 18th March, other studies put it earlier, possibly back to 13th March but they have disappeared…

70703 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 11, #1264 of 1806 🔗

Will someone confront these fascists. Where are OUR human rights?

70731 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1265 of 1806 🔗

Don’t think we’re allowed rights any longer, Covid-19 trumps all of that!

70750 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella Donna, 5, #1266 of 1806 🔗

Under Stalin noone, except him, had ANY human rights. That is clearly where we are now heading and, short of a revolution, this is all that we have to look forward to.

70912 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to IanE, #1267 of 1806 🔗

So then, let’s start the revolution

70706 Sue, replying to Sue, 3, #1268 of 1806 🔗

Coming your way – your very own covidpass which will allow you to access travel, events etc. i.e. your basic human freedoms!

Link to simon dolan’s twitter
https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1289104535714246656

70717 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Sue, 7, #1269 of 1806 🔗

We’ll have to change the name of this site from ‘Lockdown Sceptics’ to ‘Second-Class Citizens’. I’m not having one.

Did someone in power watch an episode of Black Mirror and think – ‘you know, that’s a really good idea… ‘

70728 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Sue, 3, #1270 of 1806 🔗

That’s a definite no from me however probably need to watch that they don’t cleverly put it in smartphones without people’s knowledge.

70766 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to ambwozere, 1, #1271 of 1806 🔗

Exactly why I took a lump hammer to my old smartphone… You don’t really need this tech – we managed for years without it.

70729 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Sue, 2, #1272 of 1806 🔗

Thanks for the link, but I wish I hadn’t read it. Perhaps we shouldn’t be concerned, it might be as effective as track’n’trace?

70903 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Sue, 1, #1273 of 1806 🔗

Woo, Blockchain, woo blood tests, woo ‘our app will be ready to go in September’ so all you suits can fly to your important conferences’ . .wait, blood tests administered by whom, at what intervals, how long ‘pass’valid, who withdraws it…and so on. It’s just another hopeful app developer using buzzwords.

70709 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 5, #1274 of 1806 🔗

OK, so I live in West Yorkshire and I am ABSOLUTELY LIVID! Does anyone have access to the data concerning cases/deaths in the Bradford area? Thanks. I’d like this asap so that I can post about it on FB.

70715 ▶▶ Neil Bottomley, replying to Moomin, #1275 of 1806 🔗

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

Try that for starters. Does break things down by health authority

70710 Sam Vimes, 18, #1276 of 1806 🔗

OK, it’s tomorrow now, a bit calmer and maybe a bit more sober, but still very angry. Sure, they can’t police most of this – I had friends round last time it was illegal – but between the police and local tinpot Hitlers, they may shit up the pubs or whatever. It’s that fear of what they will do next; anything, but anything, is possible with these bastards.

I said this last time, just stop and think; for us at least, it is illegal to visit your friends ! That alone is enough to curdle the blood.

Then, there’s the usual absurdity; you can go to the shops, that’s fine, but as soon as you talk to another customer or the checkout staff, you are breaking the law. And that’s after you put your mask on on the bus, take it off to walk to the shop, then put it back on to go in. Unless you are exempt, which you don’t have to explain, except to a police officer, who won’t have time to get involved anyway.

I often quote the ‘Velvet Revolution’ as an example of people power, but I firmly believe that that would simply be ignored here. Time is coming to pull these fuckers out of office by force.

70713 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 16, #1277 of 1806 🔗

A glimmer of hope! I normally avoid the BBC for obvious reasons, but saw some of last night’s Newsnight. A section was about the Leicester lockdown. The mayor was interviewed and he said he doesn’t understand the reason for the lockdown as there was no spike in hospital admissions in Leicester, as we on here know from previous updates. The key thing was the BBC reporter, who effectively said “what is really going in here, with more cases but no bad illnesses?”. At last, the BBC might start asking the right questions. I suggest you all watch it, and bombard the reporter with praise, suggesting she follows up the locked down northern areas to see what happens to the hospital admission rates.

70771 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Aremen, 1, #1278 of 1806 🔗

Have you got contact details for the reporter?

70790 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Julian, 1, #1279 of 1806 🔗

It’s a bit difficult for me to try to watch it on catch-up to get her name, but I’ll see what I can do and post her name here if possible.

70823 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Julian, 3, #1280 of 1806 🔗

Got the details now: Deborah Cohen, Newsnight’s Health Editor. Presumably, she’s not the health editor for the BBC, but just for that programme. I don’t do Twitter, but maybe she’s got a Twitter account, or whatever it’s called, and some of you who are Twitter-minded could give her a pat on the back, and suggest she looks at northern hospital admissions, via that.

71200 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Aremen, #1281 of 1806 🔗

She was also the Newsnight reporter who asked about whether the WHO’s recent u-turn on masks was the result of political lobbying (the answer was yes), so she may well be quite sceptical/open-minded by BBC standards!

70970 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Julian, #1282 of 1806 🔗

Update re contact details:
http://www.drdeborahcohen.com
Twitter: @deb_cohen

71033 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Aremen, #1283 of 1806 🔗

Thanks for that. Have contacted her. It’s an excellent report.

70773 ▶▶ anon, replying to Aremen, #1284 of 1806 🔗

This video has been removed for breach of covid community guidelines.

Accordingly under section 7.7 of the anti-fakenews act this material has been destroyed.

70915 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to anon, 1, #1285 of 1806 🔗

Fortunately it hasn’t 🙂

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000l9zr/newsnight-30072020

Start around the 6.00m mark.

It’s worth a watch, because, for once, the Beeb is doing what we pay them to do.

Because the report is quite understated, it is more effective, and the take-away is that this stuff coming out of Handcock’s mouth is *total* garbage.

Many of us who do keep up have known that the ‘spikes’ in ‘cases’ are sleight of hand.

71207 ▶▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to RickH, #1286 of 1806 🔗

Just watched it. Very encouraging for the BBC, the general message of the commentary and interviews isn’t much different to “sceptical” articles on the Leicester lockdown I’ve read!

70899 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Aremen, #1287 of 1806 🔗

I wish I was more hopeful, but I guess it’s a glimmer of truth in the darkness.

70727 Sue, replying to Sue, #1288 of 1806 🔗

ooohh boy watch this video on twitter (only 2 minutes long) Some official in oklahoma explaining about mandatory vaccine and travel restrictions/inter-state road blocks to show proof of vaccine.

https://twitter.com/adotson12/status/1288903322855002114

coming to a town near you, where is this going to end…truly scary!

70749 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sue, 1, #1289 of 1806 🔗

“Ahm proud to be an Okie from Muscogee …”

70730 BoneyKnee, replying to BoneyKnee, -31, #1290 of 1806 🔗

So some of your doctors got to together in Washington to tell the truth about the virus. Trump of course promoted them. All great doctors in one handy meeting sending the messages of a cure, no need for masks oh… and in other pronouncements watch out for the demon sperm and remember any vaccine will include that alien DNA that we all need to avoid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LxcTueCnwA

And no Guy, masks do not suffocate you or cause oxygen deprivation. Grow up you bed wetter. Look at everyone else. They can do it easily. I can understand being against it but making up stupid excuses about oxygen deprivation is rather weak.

70746 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to BoneyKnee, 13, #1291 of 1806 🔗

77, BK ?

71621 ▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Major Panic, #1293 of 1806 🔗

That’s different point from the rather weak argument Guy was making.

70761 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to BoneyKnee, 7, #1294 of 1806 🔗

Tell that to my wife, my friend, about how masks don’t adversely affect you. I had to get her an exemption card because she was suffering so much yesterday at work, wearing one. Go on – I dare you. Tell her to her face. I dare you…

Coward.

70779 ▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Mr Dee, -11, #1295 of 1806 🔗

Sorry about your wife. Yes people with issues are impacted. Guy is just a bed wetter.

70763 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to BoneyKnee, 4, #1296 of 1806 🔗

Trump comments on her video about HCQ, but of course you suggest he’s actually talking about her views on aliens and witches. You disingenuous prick.

70777 ▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Cicatriz, -7, #1297 of 1806 🔗

No. I am not suggesting he is endorsing her views on alien DNA. I am questioning anyone endorsing anything she has to say given her general craziness. The woman is deranged. She is a medical doctor but that doesn’t mean she isn’t a loon.

70806 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to BoneyKnee, 5, #1298 of 1806 🔗

An argument stands up on its own merits, whether it’s Einstein or Icke.

Isaac Newton being the most obvious example. He had some crazy ideas about the occult and alchemy. This, however, does not in any way diminish his contributions to mathematics and classical physics.

70969 ▶▶▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Cicatriz, -1, #1299 of 1806 🔗

Newton’s ideas were OK at the time. Stella still holds them.

71059 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cicatriz, #1300 of 1806 🔗

What are your arguments to suggest Newton’s views on the occult and alchemy were crazy then ?

But yes, BK is a prick …

71094 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to JohnB, #1301 of 1806 🔗

I don’t much care, I’m merely contrasting that Newton’s interest in the occult was not scientific but we don’t regard his work in maths and physics as being sullied by it.
In this case it’s evidence that HCQ doesn’t work. It’s nonsense. Address the arguments being made and the evidence supplied. Or instead just go the route of ad homs.

71113 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cicatriz, #1302 of 1806 🔗

Mmm, one person’s ‘contrasting’ is another person’s not addressing the argument. And since when is saying something is ‘not scientific’ an argument ?

(Many, if not most, occultists would say their work is scientific.).

BK’s still a prick, mind. 🙂

71153 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to JohnB, #1303 of 1806 🔗

I think you’ve got a little upset at my use of the word ‘crazy’ in my argument with BK. I am attempting to address his position, which is that anyone who believes anything do with aliens and demon sperm should be automatically ignored in other matters.

I am making the point that they can believe in whatever the hell they want and when they put forward an argument, that argument is what’s important (whether demon sperm or HCQ).

BK’s argument is this:
Person A thinks X, X is not true
Person A thinks Y
Y is not true because X is not true
It’s stupid.

And no, I don’t think occultism is scientific, it doesn’t follow core principles of the scientic method* (falsifiable, peer reviewed, reproducable theories – at least none that I’ve seen). I also don’t much care what other believe on any subject (as others should with me) and don’t regard them as things that invalidate their views on other subjects.

70769 ▶▶ Julian, replying to BoneyKnee, 16, #1304 of 1806 🔗

What has who promoted them go to do with it? If Trump promoted seat belts, would you be against them? Basing your view of science on who supports an idea is unlikely to increase human happiness.

Masks make it harder to breathe, and have many other well documented drawbacks, and no proven documented advantages. Wear one if you want, but requiring a whole nation to wear them, everywhere, forever, for a virus that is disappearing, requires more evidence than has so far been presented. They are theatre, not medical, and their compelled use is based on a Big Lie.

Sweden! Sweden! Sweden!

70827 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Julian, 2, #1305 of 1806 🔗

Uptick! Uptick! Uptick!

70793 ▶▶ Steeve, replying to BoneyKnee, 4, #1306 of 1806 🔗

As my 85yr old Dad said yesterday after a rare visit to the shop “I put mask on but it nearly killed me but you can’t be too careful can you?”

70824 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BoneyKnee, 1, #1307 of 1806 🔗

How’s Berkshire this sunny morning? Mercury crept above 77 degrees yet?

70879 ▶▶ Julian, replying to BoneyKnee, 3, #1308 of 1806 🔗

Look at everyone else. They can do it easily.” So if everyone else does something, that makes it sensible? Do you not have critical faculties of your own? And because something can be done “easily”, we should do it even if it makes no logical sense?

Please share with us your position on masks – do they work (please cite some evidence), when and where should we wear them, for how long, and when can we stop? What level of viral infection should trigger masks being needed? We need to be clear on where we are going.

71008 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to BoneyKnee, 2, #1309 of 1806 🔗

Aaww. You’re back.

How about the “excuse” that the gvt. shouldn’t be able to tell people what to wear on their faces? Because given that they’re completely useless, that’s all they are. Symbolic items of clothing.

70732 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #1310 of 1806 🔗

Dr Fauci’s comment about eye protection must be the definite proof that he is unsuited to have anything to do with public health advice. Below an article from April and China and highly unlikely eye important route of entry for Sars-Cov 2
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.00155/full
 “the eye is rarely involved in human CoV infection, conjunctivitis is quite rare in patients with 2019-nCoV infection, and the CoV RNA positive rate by RT-PCR test in tears and conjunctival secretions from patients with 2019-nCoV and SARS-CoV infection is also extremely low. This suggests that the eye is neither a preferred organ of human CoV infection nor a preferred gateway of entry for human CoVs for infecting the respiratory tract.

70849 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1311 of 1806 🔗

I read an article which mused about Fauci and his gang actually being behind the creation of the virus, 2 Noble prize winners now think it was man made, and behind setting it free deliberately because their facilities were closed and they were laid off.
https://www.naturstoff-medizin.de/artikel/welche-gefahren-coronavirus-impfstoffe-mit-sich-bringen/
I guess the Kennedy/Mircola Interview can be found in English somewhere.

70734 PowerCorrupts, replying to PowerCorrupts, 5, #1312 of 1806 🔗

Deputy Chief Medical Officer says Masks can increase risk of viral contamination, reported in the Independednt & Daily Mail: I saw it here:
https://principia-scientific.com/deputy-chief-medical-officer-for-england-masks-not-a-good-idea/

70743 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to PowerCorrupts, 7, #1313 of 1806 🔗

Yeah she said this months back, before the big mask scam took hold. All of them have changed their stance then on the back of nothing new.

70895 ▶▶ Bella, replying to PowerCorrupts, 3, #1314 of 1806 🔗

They should have put a date on that because she said it back in April (?). I like this reply though:

‘The doctor forgot the fact that the masks do not stop particles as small as the virus and once a mask becomes moist from exhalations, air comes in around the mask, sucking everything in. And, as I have been pointing out for months, we gain most of our airborne diseases through our eyes, wonderfully wet surfaces that glom onto anything that impacts it and then washes it down the tear ducts to the back of your throat, then it’s in you. So, our Dr. Fauci is not mentioning that we should be wearing goggles as well as masks. He forgot to mention that social distancing only works at 25 feet. Wow.
Funny thing is that we should want to get the virus to get to herd immunity, Using masks now is just stupid and silly; that horse has left the barn and is in the next county.
Good hygiene and avoiding others if you are ill are the best practices.’

70961 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to PowerCorrupts, 1, #1315 of 1806 🔗

She hasn’t been wheeled out recently for any interviews has she? I wonder why…

70739 thedarkhorse, replying to thedarkhorse, 2, #1316 of 1806 🔗

Someone at Going Postal has just said that Wales is dropping the 2 metre distancing rule for young children; and that people can go inside pubs etc as from Monday.

70754 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to thedarkhorse, 7, #1317 of 1806 🔗

Latest lockdown changes and plans for Wales at a glance From August 3:

  • Up to 30 people from any number of households can meet outside
  • Children aged under 11 will no longer have to remain two metres apart from people outside their household
  • Restaurants, pubs, and cafés allowed to re-open indoors
  • Indoor bowling alleys, auction houses, and bingo halls can allow open

From August 10:

  • Gyms, swimming pools, and leisure centres are all expected to be able to re-open
  • Indoor play areas, including soft play centres, will be able to open again

From August 15:

  • People may be able to meet indoors if infection rates continue to fall

Not that I’m noticing anyone abiding by these rules round here…

70803 ▶▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1318 of 1806 🔗

Here too, everyone I know has been doing their own thing for weeks. I gave no idea what the actual rules are now.

Good news for pubs though – will be down our local as soon as they crack open their door.

70831 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to The Spingler, #1319 of 1806 🔗

Yes – us too. I feel sorry for the Welsh publicans, especially those on the border, seeing their English counterparts open for all these weeks while their premises are lifeless. I’ve had to walk past empty Welsh pubs into England to find a drink. It’s like the old days, when Welsh pubs didn’t open on a Sunday for years after Sunday Licensing laws passed in England.

70740 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 2, #1320 of 1806 🔗

Just posting this again if anyone can help please?:

OK, so I live in West Yorkshire and I am ABSOLUTELY LIVID! Does anyone have access to the data concerning cases/deaths in the Bradford area? Thanks. I’d like this asap so that I can post about it on FB.

70764 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Moomin, 1, #1321 of 1806 🔗

Download the data in the section “weekly local cases by area” https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/cases

It’s very detailed

Let us know what you find for your area

Sadly no breakdown for how much testing was done, and no data on the nature of the cases (age, setting e.g. hospital, community) and whether symptomatic or not.

70774 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Julian, #1322 of 1806 🔗

Thank you.

70783 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Julian, 1, #1323 of 1806 🔗

I can’t figure it out! It doesn’t look like many cases to me.

70805 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, 1, #1324 of 1806 🔗

Imagine that.

71819 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, #1325 of 1806 🔗

My side of Kirklees has none.
The cases are clearly few and very localised.

The big local lockdowns are completely OTT. An exercise in powermongering.

70789 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Julian, #1326 of 1806 🔗

Think I’ve done it, in Keighley where I live there were 15 cases!

70871 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Moomin, #1327 of 1806 🔗

How does that compare to previous weeks? Of course, without knowing how much testing is being done, and with such small numbers, it’s fairly meaningless. I submitted an FOI request for the data and the criteria they use, to the DHSC https://contactus.dhsc.gov.uk

70804 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Moomin, #1328 of 1806 🔗

This might be helpful to you too http://www.laworfiction.com/

70894 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Moomin, 3, #1329 of 1806 🔗

Of course, the kicker is in the use of the term ‘cases’.

When you see that word, you know you’re into fraudulent reporting, not instances of illness.

71000 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Moomin, #1330 of 1806 🔗

Ignore. Ignore. Ignore.

70765 IanE, replying to IanE, 4, #1331 of 1806 🔗

I keep remembering Shakespeare’s This England.

This England never did, nor never shall,
Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror,
But when it first did help to wound itself.
Now these her princes are come home again,
Come the three corners of the world in arms,
And we shall shock them. Nought shall make us rue,
If England to itself do rest but true.

It’s that third line and last line which are so telling!

70847 ▶▶ TJN, replying to IanE, 4, #1332 of 1806 🔗

John of Gaunt’s speech, Richard II:

That England, that was wont to conquer others / Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.

70767 swedenborg, #1333 of 1806 🔗

https://twitter.com/Hold2LLC/status/1288987077405802496/photo/1
This is a very informative graphic of the current spike in Arizona. Fits perfect together and the only thing difficult to shape is the deaths which is reported with a time lag. But one clearly sees the increase of Covid-19 like illness in inpatients, increase in detected cases and the percentage of positive PCR cases of all tested spiking. Then with a time lag increasing antibody positive, increasing hospitalizations. Then the peak, the fall of cases detected, hospitalizations, fall of CLI inpatients and higher antibody levels reaching herd immunity for the population.

70768 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 11, #1334 of 1806 🔗

Just heard an advert on the radio “do you long to get back to normal to taste the thrill of a stadium? The theatre, Galleries? Going to gigs and holidays? then get tested free testing available the sooner we’re all tested the sooner we can return to normal”
Utter bullshit it should be saying Get Tested Get Locked down!!

70770 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to tonyspurs, 13, #1335 of 1806 🔗

the best way to get back to normal is to stop being tested, simples…

70772 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 25, #1336 of 1806 🔗

This is going to sound mad. An animal behavourist I follow on facebook, posted some twaddle about how wearing a mask was respectful of others and ourselves, the virtue signalling idiot (she could have said nothing after all). The selfie was all dark eye make up and doe eyes, like that famous lady Di shot in the operating theatre, you know the kind.

I pointed out that there was no evidence for cloth masks in the community, zip science, and that masks frighten animals and children – there is science for that (and lockdown is causing an animal welfare crisis).

Cue being roundly mocked. I pointed out my dog who was PTS recently died in terror (she really did, it was awful) as she was so scared of the vet’s PPE. Cue more laughing (in between being bombed with articles like ‘the CDC recommends a mask’ but linking no science!).

Then behaviourist herself joined the thread to mock me and did nothing to temper the – frankly – awful abuse going on on her own page (the usual, fascist, Trump supporter, conspiracy theorist shite). I said, I note none of you are sorry my dog died in terror. So she then blocked me from commenting. Again the usual.

My phone went ding, a message request. Wow, some random stranger on the internet felt so incensed at me patiently pointing out ‘that’s a sample size of 21 cloth masks being tested with machines and puffs of air, that doesn’t prove what you think it proves’ etc.

Bearing all the above in mind, guess what the message said?

GO FETCH A VIRUS BITCH.

These people are insane. We all know that. What bothers me about it is a) they are really fucking angry, and b) are absolutely convinced they are right.

70775 ▶▶ Julian, replying to BecJT, 14, #1337 of 1806 🔗

and (c) they pretend they are nice people, who are all about helping others, by sending them vicious messages….

70780 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Julian, 11, #1338 of 1806 🔗

Oh that too! I find when you nail people down about the save lives thing, what they mean is ‘me’. It’s astonishingly self centred.

70781 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to BecJT, 7, #1339 of 1806 🔗

Effing hell Bec, so sorry you had to have that happen. These people are obviously very mentally ill.

70800 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to DressageRider, 14, #1340 of 1806 🔗

They are enjoying themselves! They’ve been waiting for this all their lives, they’d slot right in in the Stasi. That’s what bothers me about it.

70782 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to BecJT, 4, #1341 of 1806 🔗

Nice people. I’ve found not engaging people at all helpful. Without anyone to ‘bounce off’, they have to critically reflect.

It’s a bit like cancelling them.

70784 ▶▶ watashi, replying to BecJT, 12, #1342 of 1806 🔗

scary. It makes no sense. hope you re ok.
I (grown adult woman) also find masks scary. It
s not just animals
and children that are being scared.

70796 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to watashi, 13, #1343 of 1806 🔗

It did rattle me, more that literally no one cared how scared me dog was. I’ll take the screaming noise she made as the vet approached her to my bloody grave! It truly was heartbreaking that my exhausted, old and cancer ridden dog spent her last moments alive being scared.

I hate them too, we rely on the good will of strangers, in ways we are not conscious of, a thousand times a day, masks seem to really disrupt that, it seems to embolden the worst of us.

Thanks though.

70867 ▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to BecJT, 6, #1344 of 1806 🔗

Selfish deranged bastards,that’s all they are,cowardly scum,they wouldn’t dare say those things to your face,total bullies and viture signallers,the planet would be much better if we could lose all of those people.
I was so sad when you originally posted about losing you canine companion,I have had dogs around me for my whole life and the heartbreak from losing them never really heals,dogs are so much better than most people.

70814 ▶▶▶ Gillian Swanson, replying to watashi, 8, #1345 of 1806 🔗

Yes, the worst thing about going to the supermarket maskless for the first time since the diktat was seeing all those masked faces – not a single customer without one. I’m so sorry about your dog. It’s bad enough losing a companion you’ve had for years, without that added trauma.

70829 ▶▶▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Gillian Swanson, 8, #1346 of 1806 🔗

Yes. I’ve realised that it’s not so much that I hate the idea of wearing a mask but that the sight of everyone else wearing one is deeply unsettling.

70801 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 10, #1347 of 1806 🔗

The worst kind of bullies – the self righteous, empowered by the belief that they have the majority and authority behind them.

70807 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, 5, #1348 of 1806 🔗

Yep, and just like at school, they are really enjoying themselves.

70810 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BecJT, 7, #1349 of 1806 🔗

Like the masked woman in that store Stateside, warning that family that she hoped they would all die because they were maskless. Utterly insane.

70813 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1350 of 1806 🔗

Funny thing is, by Miss Masky’s logic, that family can’t die, because everyone else is masked up.

70853 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #1351 of 1806 🔗

With them, logic doesn’t come into it, lol.

70815 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to BecJT, 3, #1352 of 1806 🔗

You couldnt go into a church, mosque, etc and persuade the worshipers they were worshipping a man made idea/belief, generally used by men to control women and other men…
Your facebook group is a simular place of worship.

70817 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to BecJT, 5, #1353 of 1806 🔗

“…then they laugh at you…”

You know the rest.

What comes around goes around. And keep up the good work!

Sorry to hear about your dog – just awful.

70818 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to BecJT, 2, #1354 of 1806 🔗

What goes around comes around.

70820 ▶▶ DRW, replying to BecJT, 4, #1355 of 1806 🔗

I feel for everyone suffering from this unending idiocy but it’s the animals and children that gets me the most.

70826 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to BecJT, 2, #1356 of 1806 🔗

“GO FETCH A VIRUS BITCH”

What does that even mean?

70885 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #1357 of 1806 🔗

Yes. What’s a ‘virus bitch’?

70837 ▶▶ Poppy, replying to BecJT, 4, #1358 of 1806 🔗

Sorry to hear how you were treated. The anonymity and distance of the internet and a screen really empowers people to say horrible things that they’d never say to your face.

70901 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Poppy, 2, #1359 of 1806 🔗

I’ve always thought social media are like a blackboard left in an unsupervised classroom; some kids are going to write naughty words. But it should be treated as just that, kids’ stuff. Certainly shouldn’t be a governmental communication tool. I appreciate it’s hard when people write vile, personal insults. One reason I’ve never been part of it.

70839 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to BecJT, 8, #1360 of 1806 🔗

Back in May, when Monty Don’s (Gardeners world) dog Nigel died, a near neighbour of mine actually thought it could have died of ‘Covid’. This was during a conversation where she was also telling me that a friend of a friend of someone she new had also died of Covid. When I tentatively asked who this person was she said she didn’t know but he was 87 and wasn’t it a shame?

All this bullshit reminds of of a passage in one of Bill Bryson’s books—could have been ‘Notes from a small island’— when he’s amazed at the non news that local papers in the UK splash on their pages. He quotes a local rag with the headline: ‘Woman 84, dies’.

I’ve got news for the frightened Zombies who are paralysed with fear at a virus that at best doesn’t exist and at worst is a cold of varying degrees. Accept your mortality, sooner or later your time will be up and in the meantime—-make the most of it.

70855 ▶▶ mjr, replying to BecJT, 1, #1361 of 1806 🔗

the saint greta syndrome

70943 ▶▶ covid_skeptic, replying to BecJT, #1362 of 1806 🔗

Trump supporter? The person sounds more like this Portland City Commissioner who thinks the BLM Portland protests are peaceful. https://twitter.com/ChloeEudalyPDX/status/1288163851507122177

70787 swedenborg, 1, #1363 of 1806 🔗

Not sure if posted earlier but a site with interesting links
https://www.medicineuncensored.com/

70792 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 5, #1364 of 1806 🔗

Press release: COVID death figures in from the People’s Republic of ‘Royston Vasey’. Drum roll, please ….. for the period 1st March to 30th June: …… 1 death!

70795 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 4, #1365 of 1806 🔗

SURGE!!

70798 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1366 of 1806 🔗

Lockdown, lockdown!

70802 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 2, #1367 of 1806 🔗

Err, yeah. Ours will start probably this teatime. Tinpot Hitler panel meeting today.

70856 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1368 of 1806 🔗

So much for elected representatives.

Who are these people representing, big pharama?

70896 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Dave #KBF, #1369 of 1806 🔗

Any answer has to be just repetition of all the stuff we already know. But surely “All cause deaths below five year average week after week” does it? Not for those (non) representatives, it seems.

70850 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1370 of 1806 🔗

Yes Surge and spike! Vietnam today report their first death since ‘the beginning’ – on that basis the helicopters are late. Expect the air-evac to come to Royston Vasey by noon, Bon voyage!

70830 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to kh1485, 8, #1371 of 1806 🔗

let me guess, were the symptoms of covid in this case – extreme old age and some serious age related illnesses?

70799 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #1372 of 1806 🔗

Just a minute (Mr. Slow here again). The ‘surge’ in the North West is due to people visiting and not anti-social distancing… but the law says we can have 30 people to our homes?

70819 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #1373 of 1806 🔗

Correct, Mr Hancocks claims that people weren’t following ‘rules’ is entirely false. Gathering and meeting and being within 1m and hugging etc have all been permitted for ages, he just doesn’t want (for some reason) people to know that.

http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/lockdown-laws-in-england-have-been-revoked/

70906 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark II, 3, #1374 of 1806 🔗

So, no doubt we’ll see a reporter saying “But you said…”? I won’t hold my breath.

70874 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1375 of 1806 🔗

The other reason fore the ‘surge’ in cases could be the surge in testing and/or the virus passing through the healthy population leaving behind community imunity which will should help reduce any winter outbreaks which would be bad for project fear

70811 DRW, replying to DRW, 2, #1376 of 1806 🔗

Have any of you seen any more signs the tide is actually turning?

70840 ▶▶ Gerry Mandarin, replying to DRW, 9, #1377 of 1806 🔗

Going the other way. The headless chicken brigade seem to be getting more and more hysterical the less prevalent Covid-19 becomes.

70845 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Gerry Mandarin, 4, #1378 of 1806 🔗

Fauchi was talking about eye protection earlier this week.

So we can guess what will be coming next.

70881 ▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1379 of 1806 🔗

Burqas all round then!

70851 ▶▶ mjr, replying to DRW, 9, #1380 of 1806 🔗

i think it goes both ways.. More and more people are realising it is total b*llocks and are starting to ignore it .. However the sheep seem to becoming more sheepish each day. The population is splitting into the haves and have nots (brain that is)

70863 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to mjr, 2, #1381 of 1806 🔗

The haves and have nots – I like it. I blame the unfair distribution of common sense. The government should give free grants of common sense to ensure we have equality in brain allocation. I think I heard that on Radio 4.

70858 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to DRW, 4, #1382 of 1806 🔗

Yes, Mail Online which went PC globalist a couple of years ago has an increasing number of sceptical pieces. There must be a growing number of medium size companies facing financial meltdown…scepticism is now a matter of financial survival for many of them. I think the tide is turning but of course the PC Democrat social media BLM MSM alliance in the USA is trying to keep the crisis going in the hope they can remove Trump.

70892 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to OKUK, 3, #1383 of 1806 🔗

True. Trump’s scalp is a major objective. Certified vaccines are another. Boris is a waste of space. (Sorry, that last just slipped out).

70886 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 3, #1384 of 1806 🔗

Mixed. I sometimes think that people are saying one thing whilst doing the opposite, even if there is superficial compliance with masks.

At other times, I am more aware of things being said that suggest that the narrative has been swallowed wholesale.

There is a lot of evidence that subliminal fear has been very firmly embedded in a lot of minds.

70948 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to RickH, #1385 of 1806 🔗

Pretty much like monotheistic religions then.

70890 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to DRW, 2, #1386 of 1806 🔗

The mainstream press are publishing more articles critical of the government’s policy: Littlejohn, Kavanagh and Street-Porter. Nick Robinson certainly provoked Hancock into a little tantrum yesterday. Once it becomes mainstream, Boris and Mad Matt will be pushed into damage limitation mode such as the reduction of quarantine for holiday makers. The Boris operation really is very weak.

70900 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bugle, 4, #1387 of 1806 🔗

I’m wondering if some in the media aren’t just a bit worried?
We know elites will be the only ones able to afford travel, but will they also be exempted from the Covipass and also from the vaccine? A BBC employee might like the idea of his/her travel being unrestricted by cost and quarantine rules, but nonetheless I do wonder if they will also *all* be exempted from the vaccine?

I’m not convinced that people in the media will all accept an untested vaccine, especially when you see films of how cagey Bill G is re the side effects that people in the trials have experienced…

71267 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Carrie, #1388 of 1806 🔗

doktor bill gates being cagey you say?

isn’t it usually dupers delight with bill gates?

70812 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 9, #1389 of 1806 🔗

The really scary thing they’ve already started floating, is that there will have to be some sort of quid pro quo when the schools open. Like closing the pubs. Hopefully civil disobedience will be in full swing by September, and taken to Whitehall in case they hadn’t noticed.

70816 ▶▶ DRW, replying to James Leary #KBF, 9, #1390 of 1806 🔗

I hope so too, the first furlough cut and resulting redundancies should finally prompt some pushback.

70821 Jack, #1391 of 1806 🔗

I don’t think we’ll be seeing this in the MSM:

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/07/30/effectiveness-unproven-dutch-lawmaker-advises-against-wearing-masks/

The Dutch government on Wednesday advised the public that there will be no mask mandate to slow the spread of coronavirus, stating that their effectiveness remains unproven.
The Minister for Medical Care Tamara van Ark made the decision after a review by the country’s National Institute for Health (RIVM).

70825 swedenborg, #1392 of 1806 🔗

Francois Balloux is the Director of the UCL Genetics Institute, [1] and a Professor of Computational Systems Biology at University College London . Led a team of researchers in the analysis of the first large-scale analysis of 7666 complete SARS-Cov-2 genomes, the agent of the COVID-19 pandemic. The work confirmed a host jump of SARS-Cov-2 into the human population in late 2019, extensive global transmission from early on in the pandemic, and identified a list of 198 candidate mutations for ongoing adaptation to its novel human host. His research lies at the interface of Genomics , Epidemiology , Evolution and Ecology . The main focus of his work is on the reconstruction of disease outbreaks and epidemics of human and wildlife pathogens , [3] [4] [5] and the emergence of antimicrobial resistance .
He is one of the leading specialists in the world. His twitter account is extraordinary informative.
He is not an antivaxxer but an enormously informed person on this subject. His words about a Covid-19 vaccine should be the one to listen to carefully. Quote his twitter.
Let me put it that way. I believe it would be a gigantic mistake to rush out any vaccine, and this one in particular. Ever heard of the Fort Dix outbreak, and the resulting vaccine disaster … If not, I suspect it may be of interest to you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak&nbsp ;

70828 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 21, #1393 of 1806 🔗

Lockdown measures not done with Eid in mind – HancockThe UK health secretary has denied that the additional lockdown measures in the north of England were introduced with this evening’s celebrations of the Muslim festival of Eid in mind.

“My heart goes out to the Muslim communities in these areas
because I know how important the Eid celebrations are…..” he told the Today programme.
He also told the BBC: “Unfortunately this change does mean that people won’t be able to get together in their houses, in their gardens.”

Wankock’s going to have to be very careful going through doorways because, if he happens to turn sideways, he could break his nose!

70834 ▶▶ Suitejb, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #1394 of 1806 🔗

I really don’t know how they can do this? Can they do this? Simply say to a whole swathe of the population that in half an hours time you will be locked down. No specific reason, no back up data, no debate. How are they getting away with it!

70836 ▶▶▶