Last updated2020-07-31T16:50:24



71223 Liam, replying to Liam, 62, #1 of 1309 🔗

I think I’m just going to get very drunk. It seems the only logical thing left to do.

71535 ▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Liam, 4, #2 of 1309 🔗

Or you could go litter picking and enjoy the fine weather.

71748 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Jonathan Castro, 27, #3 of 1309 🔗

Now that society has ceased to exist in any meaningful sense, and 90% of people are the de facto enemy, why in God’s name would you invest time and effort in anything that involves civic responsibility?

71553 ▶▶ Stephen, replying to Liam, 57, #4 of 1309 🔗

Agree. Am on a second glass of wine already.

So, if I understand correctly.

A small upturn in positive test results (that could just be false positives and is for sure within the error rate for the tests) is being treated as the portent of the apocalyptic second wave that will overwhelm us. But, very few people are actually ill and hospital admissions stay super low. But, hypothetically that could change. I guess a nuclear war could happen too so we ought to prepare for that.

At the same time, the awesome health service continues not to treat other real illnesses properly and this will lead to real deaths.

The government are fighting a war that cannot be won. The virus will do what it will do. I even believe that having lots of young people get it is even good news. As it infects people who suffer limited effects from it, it mutates and it learns how to co-exist with us and our immune systems learn how to deal with it. That is how we have managed viruses over millions of years of history.

In he meantime just try to keep it away from the really vulnerable old people. But, I suspect most of the ones who could be hurt badly by it have already sadly passed away anyway. That is because the government seeded it into care homes when they emptied the hospitals.

Government policy is a total mess.

71670 ▶▶▶ janis pennance, replying to Stephen, 6, #5 of 1309 🔗

Spot on Sir, i’m on my second Gin .

71671 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to janis pennance, 4, #6 of 1309 🔗

Beer 4 here. It’s done wonders for the hangover.

72142 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to janis pennance, 2, #7 of 1309 🔗

Bottle or glass?

72132 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Stephen, 1, #8 of 1309 🔗

Worse, it’s a sham. Demic.

71721 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Liam, 13, #9 of 1309 🔗

The Boris cabal need a perpetual crisis, a Forever War, or the truth will catch up with them. 0) this is not a very serious virus 1) they put vulnerable people in harm’s way, and they died in their thousands 2) thousands more are dying, and will die, as a direct result of their policies. Mine’s a Duval (9%). Cheers.

71840 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Cambridge N, 5, #10 of 1309 🔗

We have always been at war with coronavirus comrade.

71887 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Liam, 1, #11 of 1309 🔗


71890 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Liam, 6, #12 of 1309 🔗

“The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”

71842 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Cambridge N, 3, #13 of 1309 🔗

Think you nicked that from 1984 🙂

71886 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Bella, 1, #14 of 1309 🔗

‘Forever War’ is scifi by Joe Haldeman, but yes, “The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.”

72551 ▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Bella, #15 of 1309 🔗

Possibly that was the point.

71792 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Liam, 7, #16 of 1309 🔗

If we’ve got to wear goggles, I’ll make sure mine are of the beer variety.

71228 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 23, #17 of 1309 🔗

The new law mandating these restrictions is going to be called “The Dog’s Breakfast Act”. Or is it the “Whack-A-Mole Act”?

Both. Even a 2 year old can manage this Country better

72552 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Victoria, #18 of 1309 🔗

That would include my two year old boxer and boxers aren’t the brightest of dogs.

71232 InfiniteDissent, replying to InfiniteDissent, 88, #19 of 1309 🔗

So people in Manchester can happily visit a pub full of random other people, but they can’t sit in a family member’s living room (or even their garden) because this would be “too dangerous”?

How the f**k does that make any sense?

71299 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to InfiniteDissent, 41, #20 of 1309 🔗

It doesn’t. Logic is so last decade.

71723 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 4, #21 of 1309 🔗

It is farcical.

72573 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #22 of 1309 🔗

Indeed this whole Covid affair is nothing to do with logic or even science, unless you are seeing things from Bill Gates’s viewpoint.

71335 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to InfiniteDissent, 64, #23 of 1309 🔗

It’s because it’s Eid al Adha today/tomorrow (the most important Muslim festival in the year) and most Muslims don’t drink or use pubs, preferring to celebrate by visiting friends and family. We can’t have that, can we?

Leicester, with a tame South Asian population including many Hindus, was an experiment. They submitted to their arbitrary lockdown with hardly a murmur so now the Govt is going for the Muslims in the North. Divide and rule, oppress and humiliate. This is fascism, make no mistake.

71346 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #24 of 1309 🔗

Boris’s rules don’t seem to have stopped masses of Muslims going to the houses of families that live in areas unaffected by the ban.

Lots of cars from out of the area appearing outside houses in Birmingham, London, Slough etc…

71353 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to AidanR, 19, #25 of 1309 🔗

What’s wrong with that?

71380 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 24, #26 of 1309 🔗

I never said anything was wrong with what those people are doing – on an individual level, it makes perfect sense.

It merely illustrates that Boris’s rules are useless, naive, ill-considered and most likely counterproductive, practically forcing the cross-country movement of a group of people who are now apparently the locus of infection.

71403 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to AidanR, 12, #27 of 1309 🔗

Fair enough and thanks for explaining. Except that the vast majority of them will not actually be infected anyway. They have probably submitted to a test which showed a false positive or they are really are ‘positive’ (whatever it means) but asymptomatic i.e. not ill.

Not that that will stop the Government using this as a pretext to up the ante yet again.

71725 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #28 of 1309 🔗

It is absolutely inconceivable that Muslims could in any way be connected to this, I am truly shocked at any insinuations to the contrary!

72017 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ jojo, replying to Cambridge N, #29 of 1309 🔗

In India, Modi blamed muslims (tablighi jamaat) for the spread of coronavirus in the whole country. Looks like Boris is inspired by it.

72233 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ nfw, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #30 of 1309 🔗

Yes and no. The problem is that everybody who tests “positive” (whatever that really means and if it’s accurate) becomes a “case” and the lie of omission is that it is not explained that a “case” does not mean dying in a hospital bed. They deliberately let the dross think the worst because that’s what they want. It’s about money and power.

72533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to nfw, #31 of 1309 🔗

Quite so.

71391 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, 30, #32 of 1309 🔗

Good for them! Hours spent prepping food, cost of that food plus buying presents, new clothes etc. It was just like cancelling Christmas on Christmas Eve. What would you do?

71547 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #33 of 1309 🔗

Don’t give them ideas 🙁

72059 ▶▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #34 of 1309 🔗

I know what I would do. Karen would NOT approve.

72148 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, #35 of 1309 🔗

Christmas just might be cancelled this year.

71463 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to AidanR, 2, #36 of 1309 🔗

Lockdown spreading next week then…..

71539 ▶▶▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to AidanR, #37 of 1309 🔗

So those areas will be next.

71750 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Snake Oil Pussy, #38 of 1309 🔗

Yes, I rather fear they will…

71853 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to AidanR, 5, #39 of 1309 🔗

Please stop calling him Boris. He”s not your friend

72091 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Bella, 3, #40 of 1309 🔗

It’s common usage. I doubt you’d prefer me to call him here what I call him at home.

Or perhaps you would? Let’s try that by restating my point from above.

That fat, entitled, spineless, hooray c**t’s rules don’t seem to have stopped masses of Muslims going to the houses of families that live in areas unaffected by the ban.

72196 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to AidanR, 1, #41 of 1309 🔗

Do you mean Boris ?

71974 ▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to AidanR, 5, #42 of 1309 🔗

Good for them I say. What disappoints me is how many indigenous Britain’s are quite happy to sacrifice their family members because “the virus”. Maybe the Muslim community is better at weighing risks and benefits, values family togetherness and aren’t afflicted by the decadent Western idea that death is an affront that we shouldn’t ever have to deal with!

71366 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 23, #43 of 1309 🔗

May God be good to them all.
Said as a Christian.
We are All In ThisTogether.

71406 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 4, #44 of 1309 🔗

Spoken like a true Christian, Annie!

71564 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to annie, 7, #45 of 1309 🔗

Does that mean sometimes god isn’t good to some people? What happens there? Is he sitting on his golden throne and thinks to himself i know Biker he’s a bit of a bastard so i think the next time he’s out riding i’ll have him fall off and get ran over by a combine harvester turning him into a bale of hay.

71677 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 10, #46 of 1309 🔗

Sounds like a strawman argument to me …

71785 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Biker, 3, #47 of 1309 🔗

Some Christians have never read the Old Testament… God is not a mincing lefty. He will f*** you up if you cross him.

72046 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to AidanR, 1, #48 of 1309 🔗

Indeed. I tend to find Leviticus 26 resonates quite well at times like this.

“But if ye will not hearken unto me… I will appoint over you terror, consumption and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of the heart… they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.”

72063 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to AidanR, #49 of 1309 🔗

God is a ‘she’. Twice as nasty.

71753 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to annie, 4, #50 of 1309 🔗

“Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” (Matthew 7.15)

Just saying….

71755 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to annie, 30, #51 of 1309 🔗

We most certainly are not all in this together. I’m not in this with anyone who agrees with any of what’s going on, either actively or passively.

Not the bed-wetters, not the Karens, not the sportscasters with their stupid branded masks, not the businesses who are cutting customers’ noses off to spite their face, not the media who are all evil over-educated conformist morons. Not the idiots on Facebook and Twitter screaming blue murder any anyone who doubts all this is wise. Not anyone who uses the phrases ‘in these times’, ‘if it saves one life’, ‘socially distanced’, ‘covidiot’, ‘new normal’ or anything at all like that.

The only people I’m in this with are people who refuse to allow this shit to continue, and will fight it tooth and nail on every front. And there ain’t that many of *us*. Perhaps 2-5% of the entire adult population if we’re lucky.

Bring on the meteor strike, the solar flare and the big tsunami.

71761 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to AidanR, 13, #52 of 1309 🔗

Yes, just a few percent it seems. The majority are scared witless, through fear porn led by the vile BBC.

71767 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Cambridge N, 6, #53 of 1309 🔗

The witlessness preceded the terror.

72515 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #54 of 1309 🔗

I hope our muslim neighbours up North go about their celebrations and if anyone says anything, shrug the shoulders and say “inshallah”

Because in the end you have to live your life

72540 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to mhcp, #55 of 1309 🔗

I hope so too. And, if so, everyone else needs to take some heart from them.

71374 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to InfiniteDissent, 5, #56 of 1309 🔗

Because they need people to keep spending money.
People don’t spend money in their own homes.

71418 ▶▶ Will, replying to InfiniteDissent, 1, #57 of 1309 🔗

If the community who are testing positive don’t go to the pub…..

71233 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 68, #58 of 1309 🔗

Do NOT get tested ever . The test is unreliable, many false positives, picks up debris from previous viral infections.

The Government no longer refers to Covid-19 but coronavirus. Why?

Covid is only one of many coronaviruses. We have been exposed to other coronaviruses for a very long time.

71236 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Victoria, 28, #59 of 1309 🔗

COVID is the illness. Coronavirus is the virus.

As you say, there are many coronaviruses. This supposedly new one is referred to as SarsCoV2

They presumably don’t refer to the cases as COVID cases, because most of the people aren’t actually ill. They just have the virus. Supposedly.

Except the tests are spectacularly unreliable and give out a very high proportion of false positives. The reason, apparently is the tests only test for a sample of the genetic material of the virus. A very small sample. 200 parts of the genetic code out of a possible 30,000. So the chances that those 200 parts coincide with a part of some other coronavirus in your body that is not SarsCov2 is not small. Quite large actually given that coronaviruses are quite prevalent.

71382 ▶▶▶ Squire Western, replying to stewart, 4, #60 of 1309 🔗

Sorry that is factually incorrect. COVID-19 is shorthand for ‘Coronovirus disease 2019’. It’s proper name is SARS-COVID-2.

71704 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to Squire Western, 5, #61 of 1309 🔗

“It’s proper name is SARS-COVID-2.”
The name of the virus is SARS-CoV-2.

71821 ▶▶▶▶▶ Squire Western, replying to Jane, -5, #62 of 1309 🔗

That’s the same thing, nitwit.

71946 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Squire Western, 3, #63 of 1309 🔗

Everyone loves a pedant but Jane is right. The ‘d’ in Covid stands for disease and that’s why it’s not there in the name of the virus.

Now, for bonus marks, who knows the proper way to pronounce “clostridium difficile”?

72247 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 2, #64 of 1309 🔗


72285 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 1, #65 of 1309 🔗

diff-i-kill-ey. It’s Latin, not French.

72446 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to annie, #66 of 1309 🔗

Yes and you score 1/1 for that answer. But the rabbit hole runs deeper… What are the rules for pronouncing Latin in English as English? It’s not the same as how they teach us in school to pronounce Latin. When people get divorced, for example, they get a “decree nigh sigh” not a “decree nee see”. That’s probably because we used to pronounce all Latin in that dreadful way back in the day. So maybe when a new word is coined into English we use the current convention? But the lack of consistency bothers some people. But then again we say “Paris” but “Cal-ay”. As you can see this is just the tip of a huge iceberg of pedantry.

72548 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian S, replying to annie, #67 of 1309 🔗

Oh blessed Annie! Ventosa viri, restabit.

71570 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to stewart, 5, #68 of 1309 🔗

It’s not necessarily that bad a test in general but with prevalence now so low you need an extremely specific test to get a useful result.

Suppose for the sake of argument it was 99% specific. It’s unlikely to be that good and nobody knows exactly how good it is.

With prevalence at around 0.05%, testing positive would then still mean you had only a 5% chance of actually having Covid.

71703 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to stewart, 4, #69 of 1309 🔗

“Coronavirus is the virus.”

“Coronavirus” is a generic term.
Coronavirus does not cause the disease Covid-19 (for COrona VIrus Disease-2019)
SARS-CoV-2 causes Covid-19.

Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary:

co·ro·na·virus noun \kə-¦rō-nə-¦vī-rəs\ plural coronaviruses

: any of a family ( Coronaviridae ) of single-stranded RNA viruses that have a lipid envelope studded with club-shaped projections, infect birds and many mammals including humans, and include the causative agents of SARS and MERS <
… a lethal cattle pneumonia called shipping fever was caused by bovine coronavirus … — Debora Mackenzie, New Scientist , 12 Apr. 2003>

< Coronaviruses can cause a variety of illnesses in animals, but in people coronaviruses cause one-third of common colds and sometimes respiratory infections in premature infants. — Rob Stein, Washington Post , 25 Mar. 2003>

<Feline infectious peritonitis is caused by a coronavirus . — Cat Fancy , May 1996>

<Another viral gastroenteritis is caused by canine coronavirus . — Mary Warzecha, Dog Fancy , November 1991>

71283 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Victoria, 16, #70 of 1309 🔗

So is he now telling everyone to get tested with his new slogan? This is looking more and more like the creation of a Global DNA database as each day passes.

71376 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Victoria, 6, #71 of 1309 🔗

There is also a question over whether the test is “pre-contaminated” with the virus. There is no chain of evidence to prevent tampering. When having a test you should be allowed to choose your own kit from a pile plus another at random which you can keep. These could be sent to a “charity” testing centre to check if it’s tainted.

This might cure one aspect of fake results.

71473 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Lockdown Truth, 11, #72 of 1309 🔗

But the ‘test’ is irrelevant. I think someone said on here this week that they queued for a test but after a length of time she gave up and went home. Got a letter couple of days later that she had ‘tested positive’. Is that a rat I can smell?

71679 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Victoria, #74 of 1309 🔗

Which is why it has become mandatory in Bavaria today, when you come back from your vacation abroad, and soon in other German states as well.

71690 ▶▶ Jane, replying to Victoria, 4, #75 of 1309 🔗

Covid-19 is the disease. SARS-CoV-2 is the virus.
Using a broad generic term, coronavirus, to refer to a specific virus is totally unscientific and misleading. Like referring to Homo sapiens as Homo.
Is this usage change away from scientific accuracy done on purpose?
To get people to freak out about any coronavirus, including those that cause the common cold? And maybe get them all confused?
I haven’t seen “SARS-CoV-2 virus” used for a long time.

71769 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Jane, #76 of 1309 🔗

What I’ve seen would suggest that because of its proper use as a tool for replicating large amounts of DNA, the ‘test’ cannot distinguish between different coronaviruses anyway. I don’t know that this is true, but it would not be surprising, as it is not designed (or supposed) to be used for medical diagnosis.

72157 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jane, 6, #77 of 1309 🔗

Who gives a fuck what it’s called?! We are getting royally screwed by a bunch of incompetent psychopaths. Time to put them in their rightful place, the trashbin of history.

71235 Antonedes, 59, #79 of 1309 🔗

Note to Boris:

Man up – Shut up – Bugger off

71237 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 13, #80 of 1309 🔗

This is an interesting tweet with a photo, WHO peer reviewed research Covid-19 dated 5th June. I have no idea if this fake or real but it seems to be some form of a document relating to face masks and probably discussion of asymptomatic spread. All comments are dismissive of face masks but below the comments are authors of related publication in 3 of the 4 quotations. I don’t know if this means the authors have perhaps been approached and sent their responses.Why the interest? Remember the BBC report that the WHO has taken a decision that face masks should be used (contravening their earlier stance). BBC reported that this was a political decision and that the scientific board was not unanimous. Is this now some form of document showing the different opinions? I am surprised that an investigative journalist has not ventured into this area. Must be extraordinary that WHO takes such a fatal political decision when their scientific advisors were not agreeing at all. We all now live under consequences of this political decision taken without any scientific agreement.

71256 ▶▶ Victoria, replying to swedenborg, 1, #81 of 1309 🔗

great info thanks

71257 ▶▶ stewart, replying to swedenborg, 38, #82 of 1309 🔗

Absolutely real. The WHO does not recommend masks.

This was actually reported at the time. However it was completely misrepresented.

The WHO said that there was no evidence to recommend the use of masks in the general public, but they were open to the idea that in some special circumstances, such as very crowded closed environments, airborne transmission MAY occur and that masks MAY be useful in those special cases, but that more research was required.

This was taken by the media worldwide and twisted around to say that the WHO recognised that masks could be helpful.

The rest is history.

This is all happening in broad daylight in front of our very eyes. But for some inexplicable reason, the media is completely refusing to ask any proper questions.

71445 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to stewart, 4, #83 of 1309 🔗

Maybe the media have always been pretty useless, but this is the first time that the consequences have been worldwide and of such import?

71291 ▶▶ ted, replying to swedenborg, 1, #84 of 1309 🔗

Here’s a thought regard the mask hysteria. I am still smarting over a run in with a member of the mask stasi when I was in the office last week. He, a biologist, nominally speaking anyway, insisted that the mask was to protect him from me and any asymptomatic transmission I might be guilty of. Hang on, if it is asymptomatic spread he is worried about then, absent submitting to a daily test himself, how does he know he does not or has not already been infected? How does anyone know?

The bedwetters are running around assuming that they are “clean” and virus free and everyone else is “dirty” and asymptomatic spreaders. But given the high rates of asymptomatic infection, how would any of them know this? Wouldn’t a healthier mature response at this stage be to assume everyone who is going to be infected has been infected and we can stop treating others as polluting untouchables?

71477 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to swedenborg, 3, #85 of 1309 🔗

‘Investigative journalist’. What’s one of those?

71557 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to T. Prince, 4, #86 of 1309 🔗

Also known as “Belmarsh internee”.

71710 ▶▶ Jane, replying to swedenborg, 2, #87 of 1309 🔗

“Remember the BBC report that the WHO has taken a decision that face masks should be used (contravening their earlier stance).”

One of the studies, a metastudy/review of existing literature, used to document the new (as of I think June) CDC guidelines to wear a mask contained the statement that the study had been undertaken at the request of the CDC because it was changing its policy on masks.

71240 Christopher Bowyer, #88 of 1309 🔗

At Boris’s press conference, Chris Whitty also said that the restrictions can’t be lifted any further due to the virus https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8580329/Professor-Chris-Whitty-warns-ministers-pushed-lockdown-easing-measures-limits.html
Does anyone want to live the rest of their lives in this dystopia? I don’t!

71249 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 62, #89 of 1309 🔗

When did the policy of “flattening the curve” so the NHS would not be overwhelmed turn into ruining our lives and wrecking the economy so no one catches Covid ever?

Well done Janet Street-Porter for asking this question. It should have been asked months ago? Where are all the business leaders , why are you not asking this question and put pressure on the Government?

Also bear in mind that the Covid-19 virus will be with us forever, it cannot be eradicated. We will need to learn to live with it. This includes improving our health and immune systems (incl. optimised Vitamin D levels) and doctors being allowed to treat critical patients with cheeper drugs such as HCQ with zinc and the antibiotic, etc.

71278 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Victoria, 50, #90 of 1309 🔗

Luke Johnson is the only businessman apart from Simon Dolan who is standing against this nonsense. And people don’t like him as they think he is a typical business owner who is putting the economy before lives.

What they probably don’t know as I didn’t is that he has medical qualifications and is on a cancer trust board so is used to questioning sciencetists about their findings and decision making.

He’s probably more qualified than the idiots in govt!

71338 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to ambwozere, 8, #91 of 1309 🔗

Like his erstwhile business associate, Hugh Osmond, Luke Johnson did the UG part of the medical degree at Oxford. Neither completed medical exams, though. Luke Johnson was a stockbroker prior to Pizza Express in the early 1990s. Other doubting fully-qualified Medics – Dr Michael Burry (of Big Short fame), and Drs Ron and Rand Paul (US politicans).

71394 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #92 of 1309 🔗

Osmond is a sceptic and spoke out very clearly when interviewed a while back.

71431 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 4, #93 of 1309 🔗

Yes, as did Sir Rocco Forte (on Question Time). Easy to dismiss them as ‘from the hospitality industry’ but they are much more than that.

71287 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Victoria, 2, #94 of 1309 🔗

It’s all good news for businesses leaders as it’s providing an exercise on how many staff they can actually operate with, and allows them to sack people without having to provide a genuine excuse. It’s a win-win for them.

71315 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to JohnB, 8, #95 of 1309 🔗

Shame that theory can’t be applied in Whitehall departments and county council offices across the land.

71342 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to bluemoon, 3, #96 of 1309 🔗

100%. Their turn will come but regrettably not for some time.

71412 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to JohnB, 3, #97 of 1309 🔗

This is not true. Businesses (halfway competent ones, anyway) always have a fairly good idea of how many people they need to operate their business and how many they can afford. More people means more productivity, means more business, means more money, so in theory, the more people you have doing (productive) things, the more money you can make – limited by the total size of the market for your goods or services – given an infinite size of market and if they could afford to do it, a company would try to employ everyone useful in the world if the could (hypothetical thought exercise, clearly). That last bit is the key thing, because most businesses are now looking at a reduced total potential market, they are now having to think of who they can operate without, because they simply can’t afford to keep all the people that they have. The other key word is “useful”. Someone is only useful if their activities can generate more money than they cost, either through selling products or delivering things that have already been sold.

71595 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, #98 of 1309 🔗

In theory but it’s rarely that efficient in practise as it’s often quite hard to judge who is actually good at their job (especially for a clueless manager) and also hard to sack people for not being good.

Ao usually when these big crunch times come loads of people get sacked mostly at random often including some of the best people.

The flip side is some of them go on to found successful start ups which they wouldn’t otherwise have bothered to do. The whole process works a bit like a forest fire.

71662 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to guy153, 1, #99 of 1309 🔗

The system’s far from perfect and I’ve seen many, many incomprehensible hiring and firing decisions in my time. My point is that businesses aren’t typically sitting and looking for excuses to fire people. Specially not en masse

71713 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to matt, #100 of 1309 🔗

Yes I certainly agree with that.

71715 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to matt, 1, #101 of 1309 🔗

There is a big difference between figuring out the smallest number of employees needed to run your business efficiently and profitbbly, and laying off people because *there is no business to conduct*.

72251 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jane, #102 of 1309 🔗

The tension is between bringing in as much money as possible and spending as little money as possible. That’s true whether it’s employees or paper clips. What I’m trying to say is that a business will always want as many _productive_ employees as it can have, but I can never have more than it can afford.

71250 djmo, #103 of 1309 🔗

Has there been any digging done on the effect of lockdown on cancer (and other) research? Cancer kills about 10m people per annum, so presumably every three months the cure/s is/are delayed by will kill about 2.5m people at some point in the future.

71251 Ruth Sharpe, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 15, #104 of 1309 🔗

I was going to say that surely the government can see with such incomprehensible guidance / laws / whatever, that they will just alienate everyone & no-one will take a blind bit of notice.

But hang on – this government is just completely incomprehensible, so no, it won’t have and has not got any clue what it is doing.

Anarchy anybody?

71296 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 25, #105 of 1309 🔗

Anarchy would actually be far better than this government. Everyone could decide for themselves the appropriate level of risk they were willing to face and act accordingly. We’d probably have no more Covid deaths and no lockdown deaths.

71369 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Chicot, 6, #106 of 1309 🔗

I dunno it was pretty bad in CHAZ

71454 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Farinances, 1, #107 of 1309 🔗

It was better in CHOP though.

71254 Willow, replying to Willow, 38, #108 of 1309 🔗

Nobody believes it’s incompetence anymore do they. It’s totalitarianism plain as day. We have under our Constitution, the right to revolution. I suggest we use it.

71269 ▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Willow, 36, #109 of 1309 🔗

It’s not incompetence. Every new move seems to be precisely calculated and timed to cause maximum bewilderment and further weaken all those events and institutions which express and sustain our common humanity.

71294 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Humanity First, 16, #110 of 1309 🔗

Everything seems to come out as a rumour, which is to gauge the publics response to it, and then if there isn’t to much kick back it’s put into place around 2-3 weeks later.

This is what worries me about the cat with COVID-19 story from a few days ago.

71317 ▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to JohnB, 14, #111 of 1309 🔗

I sincerely hope you’re wrong. Keeping pets ( like meeting friends, elderly parent, going to sports event and concerts) are a real source of comfort and solace for millions.

However, given what has already happened, nobody can be surprised if, in the name of “safety”, they will rob us of all that makes life worth living as human beings.

The kind of future society they seem to slowly conditioning us all to will be inhabited by a very different kind of person.

71318 ▶▶▶▶ Bobblybob, replying to JohnB, 21, #112 of 1309 🔗

They couldn’t come for the pets in this country. I’m surprised people have allowed them to take their faces, but anyone coming near my dog is not leaving alive. He’s my only kid (even though he’s older than me in dog years).

71544 ▶▶▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to Bobblybob, 7, #113 of 1309 🔗

And anyone attempting to go anywhere near my horse will not leave my yard alive either. I’m pretty handy with a pitchfork.

71567 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Bobblybob, 3, #114 of 1309 🔗

I don’t know. They killed the pets in the Skripal’s house and no-one batted an eyelid. I did tweet the RSPCA suggesting they prosecute but they responded that they didn’t consider it appropriate.

71573 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Ewan Duffy, 1, #115 of 1309 🔗

Well, let’s keep a sense of proportion. There is a difference between putting down a small number of animals who have almost certainly been exposed to an extremely lethal radioactive substance and killing all of the pets in the nation because they may possibly be carrying a fairly mild virus that has anyway almost completely disappeared.

71716 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to matt, 9, #116 of 1309 🔗

Huh? You believe the Skripal story? That is, that the whole house was contaminated and that’s why it was demolished/burned down?


71910 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Jane, -1, #117 of 1309 🔗

Hi Jane

You need to remember many on here are sceptical of lockdown, but may not believe that the British establishment would get involved in false flag events.

71782 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 11, #118 of 1309 🔗

I’d suggest that some whose eyes have been opened somewhat by the coronapanic to the sheer depths of mendacity to which our ruling elites are willing to sink, might wish to reconsider their assumptions regarding some past incidents over which they might have been inclined to believe the official version of events. Especially those that have results that suit the said ruling elite’s foreign policy objectives.

The Skripal nonsense would be high on the list, imo.

71900 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Mark, #119 of 1309 🔗

Mark, am I imagining things or are you more amenable to ‘conspiracy’ stuff than when this site kicked off? Back in the ‘good old days’ (ha!) I’m sure you were more reticent about ‘intrigue’. 🙂

71922 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bella, 4, #120 of 1309 🔗

Cannot reply for Mark but it does seem that many who poo poo’d us “conspiracy theorists” a few short months ago, have seen a bit of the light.

71940 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella, 6, #121 of 1309 🔗

No, I don’t think so. Remember I’m a decades old dissenter on foreign policy (going back to the Yugoslavian wars), and I don’t selectively approve or disapprove according to which party is in office at the time, as some do. When you oppose the wars and confrontations our elites manipulate us towards and into, you get to see them at their very worst (well, worst until this coronapanic, perhaps). I was aware of the imbecility of the Skripal story at the time it was being pushed, and argued against it then much as I argue against the coronapanic now.

I have no issue with there being conspiracies. I’m just sceptical about an over-arching one.

72254 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Mark, 1, #122 of 1309 🔗

Well, regardless, there’s a big difference between killing one household’s worth of pets and killing all the pets in the country.

72666 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to matt, 1, #123 of 1309 🔗

That’s a fair point, of course.

71392 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to JohnB, 1, #124 of 1309 🔗

Exactly or photographs accompanying news stories

72335 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to JohnB, 3, #125 of 1309 🔗

Anyone tries taking my Ragdoll cats or my son’s Siamese…. that motherfucker will be on my dinner plate that night. Police taste like pork, right?

Actually though, that will be it.That will be when the escape plan gets executed. It’s in place and we’re ready when the time comes. I really don’t want it to come to that, but forced vaccines or the possibility of any member of the family being taken away (including the cats), and we’re gone.

71274 ▶▶ Antonedes, replying to Willow, 18, #126 of 1309 🔗

I am afraid the civil servants really are a collection of thickoes who are out of their depth. I would not credit them with the ability to make a workable plan for anything.

71387 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Antonedes, 7, #127 of 1309 🔗

Au contraire, their plan seems to be working very well. Deceive and frighten the populace, the better to control them, control the narrative and cover up the mistakes and the lies told to cover up those mistakes, and so on…

71396 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Antonedes, 3, #128 of 1309 🔗

They don’t write the plans they just execute them. The plans are written by think tanks just like all bills and legislation.

71368 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Willow, 2, #129 of 1309 🔗

I do. Just.

(The rules are far too ridiculous)

71393 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Farinances, 7, #130 of 1309 🔗

The rules are indeed ridiculous, and people know that, but that doesn’t stop people from going along with the basic premise that we’re dealing with a public health threat of unprecedented dimensions that requires extraordinary action. Most people still believe that.

There are elements of incompetence in this, but do you honestly believe the government don’t know it’s all unnecessary?

71420 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #131 of 1309 🔗

I don’t know. I posted this the other day – it’s scarily possible that they don’t, because they aren’t bothering to work things out for themselves and their advisors have tunnel vision.

71433 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 1, #132 of 1309 🔗

Well, I find that hard to believe but hope you are right because it means we might get out of this sooner, when the penny finally drops.

71465 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, #133 of 1309 🔗

I know what you mean, but I don’t share your optimism. Assuming they don’t know what a colossal f up it is yet, if and when they do realise, they’ll just go straight into trying to make sure nobody else works it out.

71490 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to matt, 3, #134 of 1309 🔗

Maybe it’s already been agreed by Boris that when most people begin to realize that we’ve all been had big style, then he’ll just fall on his sword and disappear to write his memoirs in opulent splendor. My view only, is that he’s essentially lazy and the sooner he can bail himself out of his ‘job’ the better

71436 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 11, #135 of 1309 🔗

This is what I’m wrestling with daily.

Just how much do they realise what they’ve done?

I find it hard to believe that they don’t. They just don’t know how to get out of it without admitting wrongdoing – hence the absolute ridiculousness of the rules.

71451 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Farinances, 7, #136 of 1309 🔗

Do they show much sign of wanting to get out of it? Leicester and now the others are a clear sign to me that they don’t. Masks, they can say they were following other countries and making people feel relaxed, but Leicester and now the others, no-one made them do that – no-one was clamouring for local lockdowns and no-one was pointing at high infection rates in those places. I wish I could believe it, I really do. I have never gone much for conspiracy theories, but this one stinks.

71462 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 11, #137 of 1309 🔗

Again, I posted the other week (when Leicester happened) that there would be more. It’s a manufactured demonstration that they know what’s going on and can control it. It’s designed to create an illusion of competence to 1) reassure the public that the situation is improving and more importantly 2) Save their own reputations.

71513 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to matt, 1, #138 of 1309 🔗

Hmm. Did they need to do MORE after Leicester. Just about plausible, but it’s a stretch, for me.

71527 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 1, #139 of 1309 🔗

Yes. It could never be a one-off because people wouldn’t realise that they _still_ had things under control. And Johnson’s announcement today as good as told us he was doing it to prove that he could. He several times said something along the lines of “I have said before that all of the easing of measures is contingent on success against the virus and now we have to react.” Translation: I am demonstrating that we do know what we’re doing by changing my mind about what we should do.

71515 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to matt, 2, #140 of 1309 🔗

Except the more they do it, the more incompetent they look. Surely, it’s going to get to the stage where people are just going to ignore the advice?

71532 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #141 of 1309 🔗

It’s a judgement call, I grant you. I’m not entirely convinced that they don’t actively want people to start ignoring them. That way they’ve got all bases covered – the economy starts getting back to normal and nobody can blame the government if there is after all an autumn/winter ‘spike’.

71720 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to matt, #142 of 1309 🔗

And keep the fear and obedience levels up. That is the point of the quote circled by Toby in red.

71504 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 4, #143 of 1309 🔗

Yes – because if they don’t economic armaggeddon happens, and they get hung on the steps of Westminster. Well, that’s gonnahappen anyway but they have to pretend they didn’t cause it at least.

71524 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Farinances, #144 of 1309 🔗

The need not to completely destroy the economy, because they want to get re-elected, may save us from the very worst fate…

71467 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to matt, 4, #145 of 1309 🔗

I tend towards this view too Matt. The advisors are stuck in group think, the govt are not that capable and the sheer advance of events means that they dont have the time or foresight to check out other opinions.

72174 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DressageRider, 4, #146 of 1309 🔗

Most of us who comment on this site have had the time and the foresight to check out other options. What’s their excuse? That’s their job. If they are not capable or competent enough to do as we have been doing than they don’t deserve the positions of power that they currently hold and should all resign in shame.

72228 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to richard riewer, 2, #147 of 1309 🔗

I share you view on this. Any investigative journalist worth his/her salt would visit sites like this and rub their hands in glee at the plethora of analysis that’s been/being done to expose this whole charade. What a scoop for some gnarly editor to be handed an even bigger story than the phony pandemic. But it seems HMG is obviously controlling the media too

71434 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 4, #148 of 1309 🔗

Of course they know. Well….. some of them know at least.

They just don’t want *us to know.

Doesn’t mean there’s a worldwide plot to subjugate us all. It just means politicians lie on a daily basis in order to maintain power. Welcome to the world.

71521 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Farinances, 5, #149 of 1309 🔗

Ultimately knowing which it is would be interesting and possibly useful, for now I guess which it is doesn’t matter too much, all that matters is trying to alert people to reality (we are close to herd immunity and that’s the only sensible approach). If conspiracy theories put neutrals off, we should keep them to ourselves as a matter of tactics, because I don’t think they change the immediate imperative. Just my view – I know others may feel strongly this is wrong.

71537 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Julian, 2, #150 of 1309 🔗

Well, there’s that and there’s the fact that if it’s really a global takeover, there’s almost certainly nothing we can do about it beyond future underground armed resistance. What we can do now doesn’t change depending on the answer to the real motives.

71569 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Farinances, 5, #151 of 1309 🔗

That’s the big problem with the conspiracy side of things I find – it is not happening worldwide, there are too many differences, big and small, between the approaches taken by different governments. The conspiracist view seems to be in a bubble (sorry for using this now ridiculous word), thinking that for the sake of what’s happening in just one place means there’s a global plot.

Politicians have never been a particularly competent bunch, but there’s ample evidence to show they have been worsening for decades, and scientific background, let alone medical background, is virtually unknown among them, so they are easy for immoral personages like Ferguson to corrupt with pseudoscientific claptrap. That said, I blame the politicians just as much as their scummy advisors, as it is their responsibility to LEARN in depth about their portfolios, but they never seem to bother – in any other job you’d be let go after the probationary period if you failed to learn essential information about the job you are doing.

72117 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #152 of 1309 🔗

Definitely part of it, definitely. The fact that you don’t actually have to have worked in education to be secretary of education, you don’t have to be a doctor to be secretary of health etc. etc.

71398 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Farinances, 2, #153 of 1309 🔗
71372 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Willow, 13, #154 of 1309 🔗

Occam’s Razor says it absolutely is incompetence. It is a manifestation of all that is broken with the West – the crowning glory of 50 years of accrued willful stupidity, paying stupid people to breed and shielding them from the consequences of their actions.

71437 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to AidanR, 4, #155 of 1309 🔗

Indeed. Incompetence with an injection of megalomania from outside actors (Gates etc.)
Incompetent politicians are very easy to take advantage of.

71456 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Farinances, 8, #156 of 1309 🔗

I would love to believe the incompetence theory.

However, there is too much evidence of planning: Event 201, the Behavioural Insights Team (SPI-B), the censorship, the deliberate confusion and obfuscation, the suppression of so much gold-standard science in favour of dodgy modelling which just happens to fit the Government’s agenda. Add in the ‘political pressure’ (admitted even to the BBC) on the WHO to change its advice on masks and asymptomatic transmission and, above all, the fact that so many countries and US States are following exactly the same script.

And much, much more. . .

If I am wrong, I would be delighted because it might mean all these governments working in lock-step would start standing up to Gates et al and we might get our lives back (for now, at least).

71478 ▶▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #157 of 1309 🔗

I think that some of the suppression of alternative views (from FB, Twitter, etc) is coming from the USA. Our govt is just a little bitty part player, but going along with it for their own reasons. Doesnt mean that the big ‘reset’ idea isnt a valid theory, but I dont think it is coming from Boris et al.

71506 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to DressageRider, #158 of 1309 🔗

Very true. The one world agenda could indeed be a thing and it’s just pouncing on this situation.

We will see in the autumn I think.

71516 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to DressageRider, #159 of 1309 🔗

Neither do I and I think the US election may be part of the story.

71788 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #160 of 1309 🔗

As soon as Trump has won in November (which BLM and PantiFa have ensured that he will), I do hope he pulls the USA out of the UN and all of its sub-agencies, and puts complete 100% permanent sanctions on China.

71439 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to AidanR, 13, #161 of 1309 🔗

I think it is incompetence too. I don’t think they have got the intelligence to implement this world order thing people are talking about. It is sheer incompetence & the more they come out with statements like they have done today, the less people will listen & toe the line. For what the government have got coming to them, they fully deserve it.

71457 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 9, #162 of 1309 🔗

I don’t think you need to believe the govt are following some NWO agenda to think that they are knowingly deceiving us. It could simply be to cover up their own initial mistake, and because they enjoy the power that the fear gives them.

71510 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Julian, 3, #163 of 1309 🔗

‘Knowingly deceiving us’, I will go along with that quite happily.

72345 ▶▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 3, #164 of 1309 🔗

You never know the names of the people in actual power. You don’t know their faces. You wouldn’t know them if you passed them on the street. Fame, Money, Legacy, Power, Freedom…. these are the basic pillars people strive for, and they don’t overlap the way you think they do.

Listen to this talk from Derek Sivers at the 2015 World Domination Summit.

Can I just point out to you…. THERE IS A WORLD DOMINATION SUMMIT!!!

It’s everywhere in plain sight. There is being a sceptic, and there is trying to argue that water isn’t wet just to be contrary and obtuse.

71482 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to AidanR, #165 of 1309 🔗

You mean like the Johnson’s in their Eton toppers?

71791 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, #166 of 1309 🔗

That’s my view as well (we might disagree on some of the details of what went wrong, but probably not on the big picture).

Nice to see you back, AidanR. Is it just me being inattentive, or have we missed your pungent and well directed hostility around here recently?

71812 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mark, 1, #167 of 1309 🔗

Thanks Mark.

It wasn’t doing my state of mind much good, so I blocked all news media, social media and anything related to covid from my Internet connection.

Last night’s little announcement compelled me to unblock things to see what’s up.

I expect by the end of the weekend I’ll have pulled the shutters down again until the next time.

72343 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to AidanR, 2, #168 of 1309 🔗

In the two scenarios of

1 – nearly every nation on the planet cocking up massively and in pretty much the same fashion versus
2 – all of them being bought, paid for and ruled by an elite with an agenda….

the agenda satisfies Occam’s Razor better than incompetence.

71255 Humanity First, 19, #169 of 1309 🔗

Neither rational behaviour nor human empathy can be expected of a psychopath. Our problem is that this now seems to apply to the entire political class we elected to represent us.

71259 kf99, 6, #170 of 1309 🔗

The Crucible snooker pilot being suspended is devastating for all theatre, not just sport. So much effort has gone in to it for nothing. Vague ideas that spectators might be allowed for the final weekend in a fortnight’s time – fingers crossed.

71260 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, 8, #171 of 1309 🔗

Only the first three words of today’s LS title are needed, the rest are redundant!

71298 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #172 of 1309 🔗

‘incompetent’ is miss spelt

71262 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 24, #173 of 1309 🔗

Bettys, Harrogate—tea shop par excellence.
Went into Bettys last Monday to buy bread and was challenged outside by a member of staff and inside by another to wear a mask. Breezed by both with the words:–‘No thank you–I can’t’.

Placed my order and was served OK. I was the only non masked customer in there (apart from the adjoining cafe where nobody was masked).
When I got home I decided to write to the customer services manager explaining that it was against the Government regulations for Coronovirus 2020 that they challenged me at all and I enclosed a copy of same regs:
Within a day, I received this reply:

Dear Mr. Hopkins,
Thank you for your email and very valued feedback. I am sorry to hear about the disappointing experience you have had. Exceptional customer service is at the very heart of all we do at Bettys. We aim to delight our customers in every way and we really do want to hear from our customers, it the only way we learn and grow.
Again I apologize profusely if the team at Harrogate has offended you in any way I am confident that it was not their intention. I will ensure that your comments are passed on to the Branch Manager and any learnings will be applied and shared with the team.
If I can help in any further way please do not hesitate to contact me
Suzi Stow
Bettys Customer Service Team Leader

Pretty good response, an apology, that’s a victory! and whilst I won’t bore you with my reply I said that I shall be visiting Bettys again soon and won’t be expecting to be challenged.

Such a contrast to the reception and indeed treatment I received at Waterstones for daring to step foot into their bookshop without a mask. Awful place, disgraceful, not only do they insist on you wearing a mask but they will willingly sell you one of their special Jobbies at £12 per hit! Well, what would you expect from an outfit whose managing director is called
Achilles James daunt—ACHILLES for goodness sake! They also refuse to pay their staff the living wage.—my advice to Lockdown sceptics—stay away from Waterstones!

71307 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #174 of 1309 🔗

Excellent, my wife is from North Yorkshire and we visit Betty’s whenever we’re up there, I shall spread the word!

71324 ▶▶ Bobblybob, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #175 of 1309 🔗

I gave the LaworFiction guide to the shopkeeper in our village store. We had a good conversation about, and he seemed generally appreciative. He’d already been told not to challenge anyone by the shop owner, so there is some hope with the smaller businesses.

71363 ▶▶ annie, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #176 of 1309 🔗

Well done!

71411 ▶▶ Graham, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #177 of 1309 🔗

In the Iliad Achilles is a dauntless warrior who accepts an early death and everlasting glory. Whereas Daunt is…

71549 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Graham, 2, #178 of 1309 🔗

A pillock of the first order with a ridiculous name. A bit like Alexander de pfeffel Johnson! (that is his REAL name in case anyone doesn’t know).

71425 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Harry hopkins, 7, #179 of 1309 🔗

Well done for the letter to Betty’s!

I have been boycotting Waterstones since 15 June and probably looking to extending my boycott for life. I used to enjoy browsing at bookshops but never again.

71588 ▶▶▶ Albie, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #180 of 1309 🔗

Waterstones announced redundancies two days ago. If they continue with their zealous approach they won’t be around much longer.

71780 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Albie, 2, #181 of 1309 🔗

And this time they won’t be able to blame Amazon for their demise.

72023 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #182 of 1309 🔗

But they still will. And people will believe it.

72289 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AidanR, #183 of 1309 🔗

Unfortunately you are right. Some people have passed the point of no return.

71589 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #184 of 1309 🔗

I went to my local Waterstones in South London without a mask last Friday and nobody said anything.

72006 ▶▶ Stephen, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #185 of 1309 🔗

Waterstones clearly want everyone to shop at Amazon.

Went to Wilkinson’s in Kingston today. Total chaos. You have to scan your own purchases, even though there is a worker at each till. The workers seemed scared to scan things. Another person was then marshalling the queue. It was chaos.

I asked what the logic was. She said the queue gets too long if she does not Marshall it and her manager is responsible so she cannot change anything with respect to the scanning nonsense.

I told her that her role was most helpful. She had helped me decide not to go back to the shop and to carry on using Amazon for most purchases. Clearly, Wilkinson’s must be pleased with that.

72008 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Stephen, 5, #186 of 1309 🔗

For the last 15 years, Waterstones has increasingly looked and felt like the hobby business of some dim, upper-middle class woman whose husband subsidises it from his job in the City.

This crisis has had the silver lining of devouring a vast range of zombie businesses, and I would not be surprised if Waterstones is eaten before the end of it.

72110 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to AidanR, #187 of 1309 🔗

OMG so true lol
although there’s a great one in Lancaster where they get your books signed by the author for you and send them out to you in the post.

72291 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AidanR, #188 of 1309 🔗

The smaller branches are pretty much a waste of time – more like a gift shop rather than a book shop. I mostly go to the branch in Piccadilly but since this madness I have been avoiding the place, simply buying books off Amazon.

That said I recently received a book token as a belated birthday present – will simply use it online.

72681 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Harry hopkins, #189 of 1309 🔗

Recently Waterstones Southport took David Ickes Books down due to one complaint something to do with anti semitism, I don’t know as I don’t read him
but both volumes of Mein Kampf available!

71271 Brommers, #190 of 1309 🔗

Embarrassed to say I voted for this shower of s***e in December. Absolutely laughable, they couldn’t run a bath. Cowardly and incompetent, I despair, when will this lunacy end.

71275 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 4, #191 of 1309 🔗

Been to Toni & Guy’s earlier without a mask. Pleasant, only two hairdressers (with plastic visors) working far apart, doing everything.

71381 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Victoria, #192 of 1309 🔗

I thought T&G policy was masks for all customers – certainly where I am, they insist on it.

71276 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, 11, #193 of 1309 🔗

Went to town today to run some errands. Said shitty town is usually like a scene from the Walking Dead in normal times due to the dopeyness of many people, but I was shocked to see a number of children wearing masks while just walking around outside.

71612 ▶▶ Emma, replying to Montag Smith, 1, #194 of 1309 🔗

Do you live in Hereford?

71277 Liam, replying to Liam, 19, #195 of 1309 🔗

Matt le Tissier is a full on sceptic judging by his Twitter. Good man.

71377 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Liam, 4, #196 of 1309 🔗

Him and Peter Ebdon

71379 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Liam, 1, #197 of 1309 🔗

So footballers do have brains.

71417 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Farinances, 1, #198 of 1309 🔗

One of those footballers with brains is Gary Linekar.

71429 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to AidanR, #199 of 1309 🔗

Lol no.

71818 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Farinances, 1, #200 of 1309 🔗

He might well not use it for anything positive, but I don’t think you’d find Rooney or the faggoty one married to the stick insect moving to Japan and learning the language.

Intelligence doesn’t seem to be a good correlate for reasonableness in this context.

72107 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to AidanR, #201 of 1309 🔗

He moved to Japan and learned the language?

Well…. kudos.

Yes indeed I agree. Frank Lampard is a member of MENSA and could probably be curing cancer but instead he kicks a ball around for a living – there’s no accounting for intelligence 😉

72202 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Farinances, 2, #202 of 1309 🔗

My guess is he out-earned most members of MENSA, certainly in this country. If you are one of the few who make it to the top of a star economy, the rewards are immense. And the societal kudos of being a top footballer is amongst the highest available in our culture.

So my feeling is he made intelligent use of his assets and contacts.

72689 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to AidanR, #203 of 1309 🔗


72371 ▶▶ ChrisDinBristol, replying to Liam, #204 of 1309 🔗

Well, he is Le God, so he should know (gladdened Saints fan)

71280 stewart, replying to stewart, 44, #205 of 1309 🔗

News from Spain:

It has just been revealed on one of Spain’s main TV channels that the “committee of experts” apparently advising the government on the management of the health crisis as they are calling it DOESN’T ACTUALLY EXIST.

For weeks there had been calls for the government to reveal the names of the people on this committee and the government was refusing to inform the public who they were. It’s now clear why. They just made the committee up.

That’s pretty heavy stuff.

71290 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to stewart, 7, #206 of 1309 🔗

that’s f*cking hilarious!

71297 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to stewart, 18, #207 of 1309 🔗

Why not send them our SAGE team single ticket

71302 ▶▶ phil4nthrope, replying to stewart, 4, #208 of 1309 🔗

That’s fantastic, can you share a link? That’s the sort of gross incompetence alongside the England and Wales death count that shocks people into questioning things.

71311 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to stewart, 11, #210 of 1309 🔗

Its interesting from a scientific point of view. It shows that a government without ‘expert’ advise can fcuk their country up just as well as a government with ‘expert’ advice

Experts are not required – Gove was right

71330 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, 6, #211 of 1309 🔗

Belgium ran itself without a government for the best part of a year.

71362 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nick Rose, #212 of 1309 🔗


71364 ▶▶ annie, replying to stewart, #213 of 1309 🔗

You couldn’t … but they did!

71365 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to stewart, 3, #214 of 1309 🔗

I smell riots.

Like bonfires. But kinda tangy.

71404 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to stewart, 2, #215 of 1309 🔗


71410 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to stewart, 2, #216 of 1309 🔗

Source please? Google isn’t ready to corroborate your story.

The link below doesn’t work for me. Facebook is blocked on my network because it’s malware.

71523 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to AidanR, #217 of 1309 🔗

Here is a news article about it.


The Facebook link was to a clip from the news on TV.

72058 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to stewart, #218 of 1309 🔗

Please send to Simon Dolan and Peter Hitchens – they’ll love this!

72287 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to stewart, 3, #219 of 1309 🔗

This article says the lie was ferreted out by the Spanish opposition party.
Pity we haven’t got one.

Interesting detail in same article: Spain inflated its Covid corpse count by including anybody who died before being tested, or before their test results came back. Article doesn’t say if this was all hospital deaths, or only patients who had been admitted for suspected Covid, but it shows the lie machine working busily.

71561 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to stewart, #220 of 1309 🔗

I’ve heard that the ‘second wave’ doesn’t exist either. And ‘the science’ is looking a bit nebulous at the moment as well…

71563 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to stewart, 2, #221 of 1309 🔗

The government are Socialists, aren’t they?
Socialists lie. It’s what they do.

I’m starting to wonder about Hancock and Boris…

72012 ▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to Lms23, #222 of 1309 🔗

Spanish and UK governments are in competition for which one can be the most stupid and muck up their countries the most. It’s even stevens at the moment but Johnson has form so I am sure he will “win”.

71301 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 18, #223 of 1309 🔗

Just in case you don’t know yet how this works, you can bet your house on the fact that ‘they’ are already discussing imposing a lockdown on 24th December – starting at night after the shops have taken your money.

It’ll be seen as an act of penitence for spoiling Eid, and as proof that ‘they’ weren’t targeting Muslims.

71325 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to AidanR, 8, #224 of 1309 🔗

I agree with that. It is why Dear Leader backed off his ‘it will all be normal by Christmas’ in favour of the ‘we will be past this by the middle of next year’. It’s akin to shifting from ‘WMD’ to ‘WMD programmes’. The vaccine trials are not going well!

71334 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #225 of 1309 🔗

Oh dear, AidanR and TT. I fear you are both right. And I do mean fear. That sign has come on inside my head again. It says “Violent insurrection”.

71344 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #226 of 1309 🔗

Some hope! More like blubbering acquiescence.

71560 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to AidanR, #227 of 1309 🔗

It doesn’t need a majority. Most civil wars only directly involved small numbers of people.
Just saying. 🙂

71770 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #228 of 1309 🔗

Is it time to shoot the bastards?

(Asking for a friend…)

71771 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mark, 2, #229 of 1309 🔗

Tell your friend yes, it is.

71685 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to AidanR, #230 of 1309 🔗

Already got my toilet rolls!

71303 Richard789, #231 of 1309 🔗

There is considerable accidental or deliberate blurring of the boundary between recommendations and laws in the details of the new rules for north-west England on the link below. Note the wording – you should not do x and y (without saying it is illegal), then “The Government will pass laws …” and “It will be illegal to … ” (not covering everything you are told you should not do, and all in the future tense, so perhaps not in force/illegal yet, and of course Parliament passes laws and the Government only makes regulations under powers conferred by those laws):

71304 Viv, #232 of 1309 🔗

So now the whole of the Western world, from California to Berlin, is scared of that ‘2nd Wave’. It must be very serious indeed because even the German Health authorities are warning that the country is ‘woefully ill prepared’ for that 2nd wave.
They use similar numbers, i.e ‘cases of infection’ detected through testing. A comment poster under the relevant German report remarked that the number of ‘infections’ reported for different weeks was astonishingly similar, around 4,300, while the actual test numbers had increased by nearly 100%. Given the practically non-existent hospital admissions, that question ought to be asked here as well, by one of our ever-so-intrepid ‘health reporters’.
And all hail the Union, innit, where Sturgeon forbids travels to England while Wales is to remain mask-free with less restrictions …

71308 grammarschoolman, #233 of 1309 🔗

I received two emails from the Aldeburgh Festival today. This is the first, sent at 9.43 am:

Britten Pears Arts <snapemaltings@r1.arts-mail.com> Unsubscribe 09:43 (5 hours ago)

comment image comment image
to me

comment image

comment image Antonio Pappano, Vilde Frang, Ian Bostridge, Christian Blackshaw, Imogen Cooper and more.
Does this email look wrong? View in a browser
comment image Live Music is Back What a thrill it will be to be able to have live music AND live audiences back at Snape Maltings Concert Hall from next weekend.
Welcoming some of the musicians who would have been at the Aldeburgh Festival and Snape Proms, as well as other star performers, there will be two short concerts every Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
We are grateful to the performers for generously joining us on this journey and to supporters who have made these first steps back into live music-making possible.
Free outdoor events will also pop up on site throughout the summer and in the autumn we plan to broaden the range of music and artists.
I hope you will join us as we re-open the Concert Hall doors.
comment image Roger Wright
Chief Executive, Britten Pears Arts
comment image Keeping you safe The safety of audiences, artists and staff is our top priority, and this may mean that performers, capacity, pricing and other matters, have to change at short notice.

Full safety measures
comment image Key Changes:
Reduced capacity in the Concert Hall, to prioritise your safety and make sure you have plenty of space around you during your visit
Shorter performances (around 45 mins) with no interval
Face-coverings for audience members during the performance (unless they are exempt as per the Government’s guidelines)
No printed material , this includes tickets and programmes / programme notes (each concert will be introduced briefly from the stage)
Pay What You Can for afternoon concerts
We want everyone to have the opportunity to experience live music again. For the 2pm performances we are asking you to ‘Pay What You Can’, meaning you can see 45 minutes of wonderful live music at a price that you feel able to afford.
Tickets for evening performances are £15.

comment image comment image Marvellous for all of us who are missing the Proms. (Shame about the masking up, though.)

Then, five hours later, at 2.34 pm, I got this one:

comment image All concerts postponed until further notice.
Does this email look wrong? View in a browser
Important Update
Following the government’s latest announcement about indoor events, the performances planned for 7 to 9 August and 14 to 16 August are now not able to go ahead. We hope to be able to resume our plans soon and will send further information in due course.

What a bloody shower.

71314 Biker, replying to Biker, 6, #234 of 1309 🔗

They’re twisting ma melons man

71413 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Biker, 1, #235 of 1309 🔗

you know you talk so hip man

71414 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to stefarm, 1, #236 of 1309 🔗

Call The Cops!

“Hello, police? There are some men here who aren’t taking my personal safety entirely seriously. My name? Yes, it’s Karen Colostomy.”

71522 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Biker, #237 of 1309 🔗

A lot of the lyrics from that song are all too appropriate…

Gonna stamp out your fire, he can change your desire
Don’t you know he can make you forget you’re a man

You know he’s gonna take away your promised land
Hey good lady he just wants what you got you know
He’ll never stop until he’s taken the lot

He’s gonna step on you again, he’s gonna step on you


71319 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 56, #238 of 1309 🔗

Copied these QUESTIONS from another discussion board (thanks Darzoum)

  • Why the concerted efforts to exaggerate fatalities?
  • Why the concerted efforts to suppress alternative, life-saving treatments?
  • Why the draconian measures to lockdown the world?
  • Why the unprecedented move to stop the world economy for a disease whose death rate is around 0.26%?
  • How did Neil Ferguson and the Imperial Model gain such influence?
  • Why the official indifference to how the Imperial Model could be so colossally wrong?
  • Why is the response so strangely consistent around the world?
  • Why instate the extreme social measures that are unproven to abate viral spread?
  • Why do the pandemic efforts satisfy long-held agenda items of Technocratic Globalism?
  • Why the nonstop propaganda effort from mainstream news sources to continually build-up the crisis?
  • Why the coordinated efforts to censor and shutdown legitimate alternative news sources?
  • Why the coordinated efforts to censor and shutdown legitimate, credentialed scientists and healthcare workers whose message deviates from orthodoxy?
  • Why does Bill Gates have such an oversized role in policy making?
  • Why are blockbuster revelations of lying and deceptions in reporting the COVID story met with indifference from media?
  • When did we decide Constitutional rights could be suspended for health safety reasons?
  • Why aren’t doctors and researcher successful in treating COVID patients with alternative therapies celebrated as heroes?
  • Why no deep investigation into Fauci’s diversion of funds to the Wuhan lab?
  • Why aren’t mainstream news sources exploring the timing and uncanny similarity of this pandemic to Event 201 and Rockefeller Foundation scenario games?
  • How could Fauci be so prescient that the incoming Trump administration would definitely face a pandemic crisis?
  • Most importantly, why are incompetents and proven liars still in charge ?
71331 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Victoria, 14, #239 of 1309 🔗

The main media outlets are not asking any of the important questions.
They are simply amplifying government communication.

71336 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to stewart, 8, #240 of 1309 🔗

They are being paid to.

71350 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Victoria, 6, #241 of 1309 🔗

Incompetents and proven liars have been in charge for my entire life. It’d be far stranger if things were different in this moment, wouldn’t you say?

71558 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to AidanR, 12, #242 of 1309 🔗

I disagree on this.
In days past, I would expect far more pushback from sections of the media against the government, and for there to be sharing of the news that there’s an effective, cheap treatment. That’s been thrown out the window purely because of Trump, because he suggested using HcQ early on. The MSM have been captured by left-wing activists, who prefer to suppress this good news and let people die rather than credit him with being right about anything. The level of cover-up and outright lying is unprecedented. The level of governments in lockstep over this is unprecedented. It’s because of the far greater reach of international bodies who now act above local governments, which have become deeply corrupt, and acting in the interests of global corporations and governments such as China.
This is the dark underside of globalism, now exposed to those who are looking.

71846 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Lms23, 1, #243 of 1309 🔗

I think you’re viewing the past with rose tinted spectacles…

The BBC was always the advocate of the government of the day, as was the Times.

Some of the more ruthless tabloids may have had their wings clipped, but there never was a golden age where the media truly held the government to account – they were always approved controlled opposition.

That said, I agree with your point about globalism.

71360 ▶▶ MizakeTheMizan, replying to Victoria, #244 of 1309 🔗

Agenda 21, that’s why.

71383 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Victoria, 5, #245 of 1309 🔗

Thanks Victoria, that it the most focused summary of this ‘crisis’ that I’ve read for some time. Unfortunately it also chilled me to the core

71502 ▶▶ Sceptic, replying to Victoria, 3, #246 of 1309 🔗

As part of a well planned and orchestrated campaign all influencers have been ‘captured’ (ie scientists, media, governments) so that everyone sings from the same songsheet, even if the facts show a completely different story. Sounds like a conspiracy theory? Yes it does. When you drill down to the facts? Maybe not.

71337 Victoria, replying to Victoria, 5, #247 of 1309 🔗

From another discussion board, thanks  Edistone71

According to Dr Rashid Buttar “The Vaccine coming down the pipeline is a retro-virus RNA type vaccine, the first commercially available in that category and basically:

  1. RNA ‘repairs’ or rewrites our own DNA.*
  2. It is to be produced by Moderna, a company which recently went bankrupt losing 1.5 Billion dollars before being bailed out and set up to do this job.
  3. It was earmarked by Dr. A Fauci after being rescued by Bill Gates.
  4. The vaccine has never been tested on animals,
  5. Moderna has never made any vaccine before, 6. It has never made anything consumable by humans before

If this RNA vaccine is used, our children may not be able to have children and any children which may be born will have an altered Genome which would not be human anymore.

The people being used in testing this vaccine have already been told they must not have sexual intercourse during the testing. They don’t want anyone giving birth whilst this experiment with the vaccine is taking place. The only reason I can think of for this is that they don’t want anyone giving birth to a child with serious abnormalities.

These type of vaccines take 3 to 4 years to test and then produce and they always contain highly toxic adjuvants such as Mercury, Nickel, Formaldehyde, etc. We know that these vaccines have always been unsuccessful and I believe that the agenda is nefarious.”

* DNA (Short for deoxy ribonucleic acid) is, it is the long chain molecule permanently present inside every cell of our own body, and contains a blueprint of all our characteristics (such as: blue eyes, brown hair, etc., and many thousands of others.).

RNA (ribonucleic acid) is a sister long chain molecule which moves in and out of our cells conveying the different bio-chemicals which feed our DNA.

71444 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Victoria, 1, #248 of 1309 🔗

This is the US one. There are a few different ones being developed and our Government seems to be ordering millions of doses of each one.

71528 ▶▶ Sceptic, replying to Victoria, 3, #249 of 1309 🔗

Del Bigtree has successfully sued the CDC to ensure they use a saline placebo this time and not just another vaccine like they do in the UK.

71666 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Victoria, 3, #250 of 1309 🔗

The Moderna vaccine is not a retrovirus and will not modify your DNA.

It’s a bit of RNA that encodes the SARS-COV-2 “spike”. It goes into some of your cells where enzymes in the cell make the spike proteins. This happens in the cytosol, not the nucleus where your own DNA lives, and it is quite safe both from a real SARS2 infection and from the Moderna vaccine.

Some viruses (retroviruses) do integrate themselves into your DNA. HIV is one. SARS2 is not. The Moderna vaccine is basically an extremely genetically cut-down and simplified version of SARS2.

71991 ▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to guy153, 1, #251 of 1309 🔗

And HIV does not integrate into the germ line. Newborns contract HIV in the birth canal, which is why ART works so well for prevention at the time of birth.

As for the precautions in the Moderna trial. They won’t have the reprotox studies yet to provide any refutation of potential harm. So precaution is merited. It is standard practice for any new drug without such tox studies. They tend to come later in development.

I’m pretty skeptics of the untested technologies to deliver any products of value or protection, but we shall see.

71339 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 47, #252 of 1309 🔗

If you go in a branch of KwikFit now, you should find the signage and the staff are amenable to the idea that there are people who legitimately do not have to wear a mask, and who need staff to remove their masks so they can communicate.

And that’s because two weeks ago I had a stand-off with a KwikFit manager about this point, so I went to have words with the HQ organ grinder.

Within 5 days, said organ grinder called me back to say that new signage had been rolled out in all 800 branches along with new guidance for all staff, and he expressed his gratitude to me for highlighting the issue with the way their edict had been rolled out.

It’s a very small victory, but I have to respect KwikFit for being able to acknowledge their initial heavy-handedness and lack of consideration for people with disabilities etc, and to act on it, putting things right.

71349 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to AidanR, 26, #253 of 1309 🔗

Excellent! I used a train the other day and noticed that Northern Railway now have this on their website and it’s displayed at some stations:

Know before you go
You must wear a face covering
Non-visible disabilities and medical conditions may mean not everyone can. Please be mindful of others.

71424 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #254 of 1309 🔗

Well done to Northern Railway. Hope TFL follows suit.

71488 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 1, #255 of 1309 🔗

similar message in the co-op earlier on a TV screen

and some good news – one other non-muzzled in said co-op! they’ve all been muzzled recently so that was good to see

71505 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to anon, 6, #256 of 1309 🔗

I can concur – was in our local Coop this afternoon (unfortunately the only one unmasked), but heard the wonderful announcement that not all people can wear masks & please be considerate! It means I will be much more confidant about going there again.

71512 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 5, #257 of 1309 🔗

Fantastic, thanks to you and anon. I have posted previously a couple of times re: my email battle with the Coop Customer Care to get them to publicise mask exemptions. I’m really pleased that they are doing this.

71596 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #258 of 1309 🔗

certainly cheered me up so thanks for your galant efforts Miriam!

72527 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to anon, #259 of 1309 🔗

Thanks, anon. I suspect I wasn’t the only one although Coop Customer Care told me that I was the only person to complain. Well, they would, wouldn’t they?

71357 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to AidanR, 2, #260 of 1309 🔗

Nice one!

71422 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AidanR, #261 of 1309 🔗

Great stuff and well done!

71453 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to AidanR, #262 of 1309 🔗

I’ll have to do the same with our local Jewsons. They were very officious about not wearing a mask.

71738 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 2, #263 of 1309 🔗

The words ‘disability’ ‘discrimination’ and ‘Equality Act’ are very powerful when used judiciously.

71733 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to AidanR, #264 of 1309 🔗

Good work. We need more people doing stuff like this.

71345 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 16, #265 of 1309 🔗

I’ve written to my local MP many times since this pantomime started, haven’t ever received a response so I just can’t fathom why more public figures aren’t calling out this blatant buffoonery. Surely Cabinet members can see through this charade? Where’s Rees-Mogg on all this? I am now at a total loss as to what can be done to stop this chokingly obvious clap trap. Maybe for my health and welfare I should just ignore it (?)

71388 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to T. Prince, 5, #266 of 1309 🔗

Why would Rees-Mogg be anywhere on this? The fetishisation of this self-interested buffoon is just as absurd as the erstwhile deification of Corbyn.

72019 ▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to AidanR, 3, #267 of 1309 🔗

My MP is Raab. I email him every so often to let him know that I will vote for whomever has the best chance of beating him at the next election. Whoever that person is.

71348 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #268 of 1309 🔗

From Milan just published surprisingly good results HCQ-AZT in hospitalised patients with Covid-19.
“After adjusting for a number of key confounders (see table), the use of hydroxycholoroquine + azithromycin was associated with a 66% reduction in risk of death as compared to controls; the analysis also suggested a larger effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine in patients with less severe COVID-19 disease (PO2/FiO2 > 300, interaction p-value<.0001).
Another observational study positive for treatment of hospitalized patients. These are probably the ones Jess Hahn the FDA director was referring to the other day I suspect. Remember the other day Ohio was prohibiting the sale of HCQ for Covid-19?.That decision was quashed by the Gov of Ohio. According to reports Jess Hahn FDA director had been in contact and said there were no RCT positive studies for HCQ but there were some observational trials which had shown effect. According to Hahn it was up to the doctor and the patient to decide on HCQ. I was surprised to hear the FDA director saying this as he is being associated with Big Pharma but suspect there might be more positive studies in the pipe line. Not to be reported to BBC as a discredited treatment.

71530 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to swedenborg, 6, #269 of 1309 🔗

Or: there are vested interests out there who’d happily let people die rather than promote a treatment that works because it would mean Orange Man Bad was correct….

71354 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 9, #270 of 1309 🔗


Yes, I bet they bloody do. Can you imagine what history “lessons” would be like?

71483 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 4, #271 of 1309 🔗

Oh my God.

71525 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tenchy, 2, #272 of 1309 🔗

History reimagined, i.e. made up, like the 1619 project in America, and as said by Stephen Moffat over Doctor Who and why they put so many BAME actors in historical episodes, where they didn’t belong. Does anyone else remember all those black African Vikings…???

71654 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Lms23, 2, #273 of 1309 🔗

The next Doctor is going to be a fat black woman. We’ve had a foretaste of her already.
And I used to love that programme.

71987 ▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to annie, #274 of 1309 🔗

So is fat good..? Or bad…? 😉

71686 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Lms23, 2, #275 of 1309 🔗

My favourite was the one where they went back in time to just before the partition of India and were surprised to find a multicultural paradise of Muslims and Hindus marrying each in perfect harmony. This was destroyed overnight by the British. It turned out that the sinister aliens who had been snooping around had actually come not to interfere in history but just to disapprove of the British. They left in their spaceship shaking their heads sadly.

71705 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Lms23, 1, #276 of 1309 🔗

If you go to the Jorvik centre, one of the skeletons there is genetically half African, half-Scandinavian, which I found fascinating! Those Vikings did get around!

71358 Cody, 16, #277 of 1309 🔗

This really is straight from The Thick Of It.Living in the new death zone means I can now,absurdly, not have a beer in my garden with friends but can open my gate,stick a table and chairs in the public park at the bottom of the garden,and drink with them there….1 metre from my out of bounds private garden.So I will……The lunatics HAVE taken over the asylum.

71359 annie, 12, #278 of 1309 🔗

Toby, today’s LS is masterly. Hats off, ladies and gentlemen!

71361 RickH, 12, #279 of 1309 🔗

The stuff (above) about the ONS Covid Infection Survey is all irrelevant. given that the PCR test used merely identifies fragments of RNA that might have some connection to the virus – but quite possibly might not.

It certainly doesn’t give any direct information about actual infection or illness.

I think there’s far stronger evidence for putting Mr Toad in a box and nailing down the lid than there is to stop people meeting friends and family.

71367 AidanR, replying to AidanR, 15, #280 of 1309 🔗

One day, many books will be written about this dark episode, focusing on what it says about our society, democracy, education system, health system, scientific institutions, government and the supranational shithouses they pay dues to.

Toby’s book will be amongst them, so let me offer prospective publishers a little tip.

Unless these books can be used as weapons to bludgeon anyone who mentions COVID, no-one will ever pick them up, because we are f***ing sick of it. We know we’re being f***ed, we know how and we know why.

71650 ▶▶ annie, replying to AidanR, #281 of 1309 🔗

As I predicted before, there will be whole university departments devoted to the study of the Great Insanity.
Treasure all the evidence, it will be used.

71714 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to AidanR, 5, #282 of 1309 🔗

I hope you’re right but I worry it could go the other way and I have a vision of a future grandchild asking me if it’s true that we used to go to places without masks. If you want a vision of the future imagine a mask clamped to a human face forever.

72206 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Achilles, #283 of 1309 🔗

With a boot stomping on it forever.

71370 Squire Western, replying to Squire Western, 35, #284 of 1309 🔗

If I lived in Manchester, I would ask why I’m having to endure these additional restrictions when a smaller percentage of my city is infected than London.’

Or you could do what every single person in the relevant area will do, which is to ignore the instructions completely. Utterly unenforceable, these measures will simply be ignored by a public which has lost patience with restrictions on their liberty. Squashing the sombrero for three weeks is one thing; constantly moving the goalposts is quite another.

71390 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Squire Western, 15, #285 of 1309 🔗

My family live up there… it seems everyone knows exactly why they’re all being locked down, and the resentment it’s breeding will not be easily dissipated.

71427 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to AidanR, 1, #286 of 1309 🔗

Why do they think it is?

71461 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Farinances, 3, #287 of 1309 🔗

Eid & AidanR is quite right – the resentment that exists in those areas is real. I lived in Kirklees for 20 years.

71471 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 2, #288 of 1309 🔗

It’s divide and rule. Never fails.

71487 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #289 of 1309 🔗

Well it’s certainly working in Kirklees!

71499 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #290 of 1309 🔗

Aaaah, ok. I can see why they would. I live *very* close to Kirklees and have lots of friends there (my boss is from Batley). It does seem very like….. let’s lockdown the Labour voters (even though lots of Asian people vote Tory!).

71507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Farinances, #291 of 1309 🔗

I think you’re right about Labour voters but those who are saying that it will stir up pre-existing tensions between South Asians and whites are possibly more on-target.

71732 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Farinances, #292 of 1309 🔗

Except that Trafford is locked down too, a great deal of which is true blue. The chairman of the Tory 1922 Committee is my mother’s MP.

72242 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to AidanR, #293 of 1309 🔗

Large parts of Trafford are quite heavily ‘ethnic’. (Old Trafford, Stretford)

72240 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to AidanR, 3, #294 of 1309 🔗

I live in Manchester and on Wednesday we had our bathroom ripped out for a refurb. Was convinced that the plumber would call first thing to postpone as his wife is ‘at risk’ (aren’t we all of something?). Anyway, he tipped up at 8, fully masked. ‘Wasn’t expecting you today Frank!’ Frank ‘It’s a load of bollocking, it’s all about Eid

71371 EllGee, replying to EllGee, 29, #295 of 1309 🔗

Last night I lost it with one of the daughters after discovering she has been accessorising the 8 year old granddaughter’s face mask. After the phone call I just sat and cried.
Today at the Motorhome Show at Peterborough. First one allowed and a good turnout considering how so many seem to think. On my top was a small black button badge mentioning Brainwashing. One stall holder read it, read it again and asked if the new stock was in…..and that he went to Tesco on Wednesday without a mask.
Another stall holder read the badge and in front of other people waiting- some masked- just said there are lies, damned lies, statistics and then this Government.
Was feeling happier again and then caught the news on the way home. Remember the Game of Thrones slogan of The North Will Remember? Anybody still got the sweatshirt? It’s time it was manufactured again

71395 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to EllGee, 19, #296 of 1309 🔗

It’s heatbreaking how this is tearing families and friendships apart… practically everyone in the country is socially far poorer and more isolated now that they were 6 months ago.

71497 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to EllGee, 4, #297 of 1309 🔗

Sorry to hear you were upset.
What did you say to your daughter, and did she listen?

71517 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to EllGee, 5, #298 of 1309 🔗

I remember the old saying “you can pick your friends, you cannot pick your family”.

I’ve been screwed more by family over the years than strangers ever tried to do to me so families are overrated.

71519 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #299 of 1309 🔗

Forgot to say be true to yourself, screw everyone else.

72210 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Awkward Git, #300 of 1309 🔗

R. D. Laing, ‘Sanity, Madness & the Family’.

71375 Sceptic, 14, #301 of 1309 🔗

Lars Christensen’s article on the different Covid mortality rates showing it is linked with higher populations of males and over 80s – can’t explain 2 ‘outliers’ Greece and Japan.

What they did unlike other countries is ignore WHO advice and used ‘Ionophores’ such as Hydroxycloroquine in Greece and Hinokitiol in Japan to transport zinc or anbiotics to the cells. This is the method being banned at present on all media channels.



71378 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 33, #302 of 1309 🔗

Have I read this right? (From Toby’s excellent post, above):

* Reopen most remaining leisure settings, including bowling, skating rinks and casinos
* Allow live indoor theatre and concert performances to resume with socially distanced audiences
* Reopen all close contact services including any treatments on the face, such as eyebrow threading or make-up application
* Allow wedding receptions for as many as 30 people
These changes have now been postponed for at least a fortnight ,

So if you are getting married tomorrow and have booked and paid for your reception, or you’re trying finally to re-open your beauty business, or have laid out money on your sports or arts business – forget it. We’ve just decided to screw you again, with 1 day’s notice! How much more will the supine British public take of this? (I’m not bothering to take bets, sadly.)

71401 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 17, #303 of 1309 🔗

It’s totally heartbreaking for couples about to get married this weekend. Such a waste 🙁

71405 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 6, #304 of 1309 🔗

Oh I don’t know… most of those marriages wouldn’t survive long, and most of the men and children involved would end up much the poorer for that.

Could be a bullet dodged.

Yes, I am feeling quite that cynical about where we are, how we got here and what it all means.

71526 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #305 of 1309 🔗

My nuptials are planned for next October and i’m getting worried as there is no end to this shit. I’m probably being too pessimistic but I honestly can’t see a way out.

71645 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, #306 of 1309 🔗

Wait a little longer. Live in sin. It’s virtue compared with the sins of our Fascist oppressors.

71643 ▶▶ annie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #307 of 1309 🔗

Maybe the ban on eyebrow threading will be the last straw.
I mean, how can you possibly live with unthreaded eyebrows?

72571 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to annie, 1, #308 of 1309 🔗

Honestly Annie, it has been so hard. Thank you for your understanding. It’s not only my eyebrows, there’s the as yet half-finished BLM tattoo on my bum which is wrecking my life at the moment.

72660 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #309 of 1309 🔗

Only one cheek? Clearly you are a racist scumbag with no right to even show your face, let alone your tattoo in decent society!

71385 DRW, replying to DRW, 21, #310 of 1309 🔗

I am genuinely feeling ill this afternoon. When and what will it take to wake people up?

71400 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DRW, 10, #311 of 1309 🔗

Me too. It’s awful.

72562 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #312 of 1309 🔗

To you and DRW, you have obviously got CV19, shouldn’t you go and get tested as soon as possible. 🙂

72706 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #313 of 1309 🔗

Feeling ‘ill’ is a symptom

71386 Awkward Git, 8, #314 of 1309 🔗

Carried over from “yesterday” for those who haven’t seen it:

Here is a link to video I downloaded from the Parlaimentlivetv website of CMO Whitty stating:
“If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”
It’s 23 MB so too big too e-mail.
You can download it yourself on their website – set the start time at 10:58:00 and end time as 11:01 – their instructions are easy to follow.
Please spread it around.

71397 swedenborg, 4, #315 of 1309 🔗

Not sure if posted before Dr Ron Daniels ICU doctor in 1 and half minute video saying more sensible thing about the so called second wave than any member of SAGE or anyone else. Well worth seeing. Thank God there are some sane people left in this country.Absolute worth watching.

71399 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #316 of 1309 🔗


A generally second-wave sceptic article.


Cases are rising across Europe – at a greater rate in countries with less stringent lockdown measures.
This is accompanied by a graph which appears to show the opposite (sharp rise in Spain, which as we know was draconian, no rise in Sweden, etc). Am I missing something here?

71402 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #317 of 1309 🔗

Great comment too:


Couldn’t have put it better myself.

71464 ▶▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #318 of 1309 🔗

I’m afraid that when the government announce anything now, I just stick my fingers in my ears and go “la la la” to myself. Works well.

71407 ▶▶ DRW, replying to A. Contrarian, #319 of 1309 🔗

Do the DT’s Spain numbers include the antibodies?

71446 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DRW, 1, #320 of 1309 🔗

It’s unclear, as they give numbers in cases per million and in graph form. Looks like around 60-70 per million at the moment.

71529 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #321 of 1309 🔗

When the evidence doesn’t fit the narrative, lie. Standard MSM.

71408 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #322 of 1309 🔗

Boris’s recommendations for peerages just announced. His brother, Jo Johnson (think he made it to junior minister level, but obviously needs a job so the next generation can attend the elite schools of the parents, uncles and aunts). Philip May, for services to handbag-holding for his predecessor. Owner of the Evening Standard, because only what is said in London matters.

Husband not yet had a reply to his terse email to CCHQ, local Tory association and MP. Will report back.

71416 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #323 of 1309 🔗

In the middle of a national emergency…

71423 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #324 of 1309 🔗

Anyone who has ever accepted a peerage is going on the bonfire when this all comes to a head.

71409 SweetBabyCheeses, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 9, #325 of 1309 🔗

Postcard from Leicester… it’s seems that the Gov either must either be confusing us into not leaving the house ever or just completely giving up on trying to follow the “rules” of you don’t have a phd in f*ckwittery to be able to understand them.

Last few weeks…meeting in gardens fine. Was even written into the new law. Now some buffoon has decided that poor people in the NW can’t meet in gardens, they’ve decided they have to include Leicester in that too.

Are they going to rewrite all the previous local lockdown laws every time there’s a new one?!

Source: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/685/regulation/6/made

71480 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 6, #326 of 1309 🔗

“Are they going to rewrite all the previous local lockdown laws every time there’s a new one?!”

It’s starting to resemble a psy-ops programme, one deliberately designed to confuse and demoralise the public.

71486 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Lms23, 5, #327 of 1309 🔗


I’ve already posted this today but it’s still working a treat for them. I love how everything they do is documented but still people don’t seem to be able to see it (!)

71765 ▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, #328 of 1309 🔗

Thanks for this!

I read the first third of it.
Really CREEPY.

71415 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 14, #329 of 1309 🔗

There is an old, old philosophy, which is most efficacious in every case. It consists of two words: Fuck ’em.

71419 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #330 of 1309 🔗

Wise words indeed, if only more would know such wisdom.

71421 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 13, #331 of 1309 🔗

Francois Balloux is the Director of the UCL Genetics Institute, and a Professor of Computational Systems Biology at  UCL London. Led a team of researchers in the analysis of the first large-scale analysis of 7666 complete SARS-Cov2 genomes, the agent of the COVID-19 pandemic. The work confirmed a host jump of SARS-Cov2 into the human population in late 2019, extensive global transmission from early on in the pandemic, and identified a list of 198 candidate mutations for ongoing adaptation to its novel human host . His research lies at the interface of Genomics, Epidemiology,Evolution and Ecology. The main focus of his work is on the reconstruction of disease outbreaks and epidemics of human and wildlife pathogens and the emergence of antimicrobial resistance (from Wikipedia)He is one of the leading specialists in the world. His twitter account is extraordinary informative.He is not an antivaxer but an enormously informed person on this subject. His words about a Covid-19 vaccine should be the one to listen to carefully. Quote his twitter.
Let me put it that way. I believe it would be a gigantic mistake to rush out any vaccine, and this one in particular. Ever heard of the Fort Dix outbreak, and the resulting vaccine disaster … If not, I suspect it may be of interest to you

71475 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to swedenborg, 8, #332 of 1309 🔗

“the incidence of swine flu among the vaccinated was seven times greater than among those who were unvaccinated, according to news reports.”….

71489 ▶▶ DocRC, replying to swedenborg, 11, #333 of 1309 🔗

Yes and I remember the US Army gave an experimental SARSCoV1 vaccine to volunteers, oops GI’s. They appeared fine after vaccination but next time they were exposed to another coronavirus some of them had a cytokine storm and were very ill. I’m a Doctor and in no way an anti-vaccer but I won’t be in the queue for any SARSCoV2 if/when one appears!

72213 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to DocRC, #334 of 1309 🔗

GI=Government Issue.

71426 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #335 of 1309 🔗
71428 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 9, #336 of 1309 🔗

Which one is Boris?

71448 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Winston Smith, 11, #337 of 1309 🔗

They will need to reinforce the gallows!

71492 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 13, #338 of 1309 🔗

And triple reinforce it when they add Hancock, Ferguson, Whitty and Valance.

71501 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #339 of 1309 🔗

We live in hope.

71441 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #340 of 1309 🔗

Mussolini is 2nd from the left, Petacci 3rd from left…..

71442 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Winston Smith, 9, #341 of 1309 🔗

I think I need to take a cold shower. I see images like this and I feel things stirring inside me. Violent urges.

71459 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Farinances, 4, #342 of 1309 🔗

Good 👍🏻

71472 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Winston Smith, 4, #343 of 1309 🔗

That is disturbing.

71481 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to RyanM, 4, #344 of 1309 🔗

It is, but look at what has disturbed us.
I used to be a peaceable, law-abiding citizen.
Now my signature song is Ça ira.

71717 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to annie, 1, #345 of 1309 🔗

I can’t believe we are standing for this this! 😡

71430 MDH, replying to MDH, 6, #346 of 1309 🔗

“The amount is too small.”

Actually, Mr Johnson, I’d say it was slightly greater than your market value.

71432 ▶▶ MDH, replying to MDH, 3, #347 of 1309 🔗

It looks as though you CAN donate £1. Which is tempting, because the cut taken by the processor will probably eat it all up.

71440 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to MDH, 1, #348 of 1309 🔗

What’s this?

71447 ▶▶▶ MDH, replying to Farinances, 12, #349 of 1309 🔗

The latest desperate begging email from Conservative central office. I foolishly gave them my email address. I’m trying to find a way to actually cost them money, but alas, a contribution of 1/- is not considered enough.
The levels of delusion are phenomenal. The Conservative Party must be finished in its current form.

71455 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to MDH, 6, #350 of 1309 🔗

No…..ffing….way. The cheek!

Begging for money now!!

71443 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to MDH, 6, #351 of 1309 🔗

Husband just tried to reply to that same email in our inbox, along the lines of ‘Foreign Office’, but it bounced back. He has cancelled his membership though.

71546 ▶▶▶ Edward Giles, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #352 of 1309 🔗

Send reply to chairman@conservatives.com . That gets through direct to the Party Chairman. Tell them what you think and don’t holdback!

71628 ▶▶ James007, replying to MDH, 1, #353 of 1309 🔗

The irony of calling it the “Unleash Britain Fund”!

I fell for the Conservative con by giving to the 2019 election campaign. I would quite like that money back. I guess there is no harm in asking.

71435 Will, 1, #354 of 1309 🔗

Post deleted

71438 Margaret, 11, #355 of 1309 🔗

Treated myself to a new swimming costume for my recent holiday-bargain price from Matalan. They sent me a survey by email so I gave it a good report:good fit, nice colours etc. There was then a section about the store itself. I told them, in no uncertain terms, would I be darkening their doors again until they stopped the enforced muzzling if their staff, even if they allowed me to come in unmasked.

71449 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #356 of 1309 🔗

Just defaced my first sign – it was a sticker with the QR code for the NHS test and trace. Got stuck in my mobile phone so I simply pulled it off the table.

Also became a member from hell for the National Gallery. They tried to force me to book online but as soon as I said in a very firm voice “I DO NOT consent to test and trace” they capitulated and took my booking over the phone.

71452 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bart Simpson, 14, #357 of 1309 🔗

Interesting. I have been adopting the ‘fuck off then’ approach. Maybe it’s time to adopt the ‘push and push until they capitulate’ approach.
Most days though I just can’t be arsed. If they don’t want to treat me like a human they don’t get my money.

71470 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 10, #358 of 1309 🔗

They were surprised when I asked them about the mandatory muzzling on 8 August. Looks like no-one has bothered to check.

Trouble is we have a membership and Mr Bart reasoned that we would have to use it at some point to avoid it going to waste (however we have cancelled our DD from 1 June 2021). Of course after this, I will not go until the Artemesia exhibition opens and I plan to adapt the same tactic. But they’re getting the bare minimum from me.

If they don’t want to treat me like a human they don’t get my money

That’s my logic for boycotting shops.

71722 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, #359 of 1309 🔗

– you have inspired me to have courage and do the above!

71450 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 4, #360 of 1309 🔗

This table with the contraction of GDP in the first two quarters in some EU countries has the wrong heading. Says Virus damage. Should say lockdown damage. Do you think they will go for a second lockdown?

72229 ▶▶ Harrison Bergeron, replying to swedenborg, #361 of 1309 🔗

I’d bet the farm (wish I owned one) on a 2nd lockdown by late autumn, perhaps to coincide with the furlough carnage. I’m also expecting it to ban even 1-hour exercise and include mandatory face masks inside your own home.

71458 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 8, #362 of 1309 🔗

Right, these clowns are really doing my head in now. In the guidance for places of worship it states:

‘Where the guidance states that an activity should take place this is not a legal requirement under the Covid regs…however, it is strongly advised that consideration is given to following the advice being given to reduce the risk of transmission of Covid-19.’

Can anyone tell me if this applies to the stupid new local lockdown guidance as I can’t see it on there?:


We were supposed to have a friend round tonight and more friends over on Sunday morning and now it seems that we can’t. The only way this will end is if we take a stand. Thanks for any help.

71460 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Moomin, 23, #363 of 1309 🔗

I’d ignore it and carry on with your plans.

71468 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Lms23, 17, #364 of 1309 🔗

Absolutely. It appears to be unenforceable garbage – especially if people don’t play along. The more people ignore this stuff, the more quickly it will go away.

71484 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to RyanM, 8, #365 of 1309 🔗

Yes, just do it. It’s so important in so many ways.

71466 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Moomin, 26, #366 of 1309 🔗

We were supposed to have a friend round tonight and more friends over on Sunday morning”

Go ahead would be my advice. Issues to do with organisations and institutions have practical difficulties, but these restrictions involving individuals are plain stupid, and there is (as Jonathan Sumption has pointed out) no moral obligation to obey crazy regulations like this. They aren’t law., anyway, in any strict sense; they are back-of the fag packet scribbles.

71474 ▶▶▶ DocRC, replying to RickH, 8, #367 of 1309 🔗

Keep calm and carry on! You’ll find out if any of your neighbours are informers!

71496 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to DocRC, 3, #368 of 1309 🔗

Then they can have a nasty accident.

71495 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Moomin, 6, #369 of 1309 🔗

Just do it.

71543 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Moomin, 3, #370 of 1309 🔗

Ignore and carry on. You can be sure that all the Eid celebrations will still take place regardless.

71724 ▶▶ steve, replying to Moomin, 1, #371 of 1309 🔗
71469 philburton, #373 of 1309 🔗

Hi Toby – I’ve done a bit of research in to the “excess death” figures.

Did you know that the average “excess deaths” per year between 2015-2018 was 25,000 (when measured against the previous 5 years)? Did you also know that in 2019, excess deaths measured only 2,000?

The increase in excess deaths this year could merely be a natural correction.

71476 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 1, #374 of 1309 🔗

http://www.laworfiction.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Face-Covering-Exemption-Notice-with-Law-Explained-24-July-2020.pdf includes at 3 on page 1that certain pepole can legally ask whether you have a reasonable excuse.for not wearing a muzzle. If you say “yes I have ” , is that the end of the matter or can you be quizzed as to what it is?

71498 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to arfurmo, 4, #375 of 1309 🔗

I think the police could probably quiz you (tentatively). But nobody else has the right to.

71541 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to arfurmo, 1, #376 of 1309 🔗

Only police officers, police community support officers & ‘persons designated by local authorities or by the Secretary of State for the purpose of enforcement’, can ask you. (Taken from the Laworfiction guidelines.)

As far as I am aware at the moment, we are still on the police, ie no-one else has been given authorisation to enforce, although that may come in time.

71737 ▶▶▶ arfurmo, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #377 of 1309 🔗

Yes -but is it enough to answer “I have a reasonable excuse” or do you have to back it up with your medical history, please?

71762 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to arfurmo, 3, #378 of 1309 🔗

No, you don’t have to say anything at all. It is your personal medical history & they would be in contravention of the Equality Act to ask it.

From personal experience, it is very nerve-wracking to walk into a shop without a mask. I am in Scotland & my community seems to have taken to it hook, line & sinker. But today in the Coop, they now have an announcement to ‘respect those that can’t wear masks’, so that now makes me more confident about going there. I’ve also been to Boots – no questions asked. The best place for us is the local farm supply shop – they have been maskless from the start & have no intention of starting now.

Start with one & give it a go.

71479 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 44, #379 of 1309 🔗

By jove, I think I’ve got it! Here goes:

I can go on holiday, say all the way to Cornwall, but I can’t go into my neighbour’s house.

I can go to the shops, but I musn’t talk to anyone, unless their name is ‘Bubble’.

My mate can’t come round, not even for a minute, but a builder can come in to the house every day for a week or more.

I can’t have a wedding reception because everyone will die, but the most vulnerable in society are now allowed out.

I can’t meet two people in a garden, but I can go to the pub with loads of of folk.

The new rules are because some people got within two metres of eachother that time I legally had 30 people round to the house.

Oh and I have to wear a mask, except when I don’t.

71533 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #380 of 1309 🔗

That’s about it! You’ve definitely got it!

71970 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Sam Vimes, #381 of 1309 🔗

You could be boris the buffoon’s media spokesperson.
Uncanny he’s advertising for this position as someone has probably told him he does’t have media presence and sounds ridiculous and unconvincing!

71485 Polemon2, 16, #382 of 1309 🔗

Any lawyers reading this site? I wonder whether there are grounds for Judicial Review of some of the “guidance” which is being released The grounds would be irrationality – that is (if) it is so unreasonable that no reasonable person, acting reasonably, could have made it.(the decision, that is).Perhaps Toby could ask Lord Sumption?

71491 leem1968, #383 of 1309 🔗

comment image ?downsize=700%3A%2A&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto&downsize=360:*

71493 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 15, #384 of 1309 🔗

The comment by Prof. Robert West is seriously disturbing, downright terrifying (not in the way he intended) to be honest. “People are regaining their senses, crank up the brainwashing machine again!

Given this, the insane local lockdowns in the Northwest, along with the PM’s “second wave” speech, do seem like a frantic attempt to raise the fear level.

I’ve said this before, but I don’t know how people with a scientific background like Robert West can be so blind to the evidence and alternative points of view (unless financially or politically motivated, of course)

I’m kind of hoping the new lockdown measures will be a step too far for many people, both public and media… even the BBC has been questioning the Leicester situation, and this is an order of magnitude more illogical and incoherent.

71511 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Drawde927, 7, #385 of 1309 🔗

Increasing places where you must wear a mask during the hottest months of the year might well be that final push.

72259 ▶▶ Youth_Unheard, replying to Drawde927, #386 of 1309 🔗

I simply had to laugh at that when I read it first, it really popped out of the article as downright dastardly.

71494 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 32, #387 of 1309 🔗

Just sent to jeremy Hunt who chairs the committee supposedly supposedly questioned Whitty last eek:

“I have been reading the transcript and watching the video of the committee hearing on 21st July 2020 which you now chair.

I have a few points that need raised, both very important but were not addressed at that time but need to be.

1 – CMO Chris Whitty stated “If you look at the R, and the behaviours, quite a lot of the change that led to the R going below
one occurred well before, or to some extent before, the 23rd, when the full lockdown started.”

Why was he not challenged on this at the time?

This, in effect, means that “the virus” infection rate was dropping drastically BEFORE the incarceration of the population started and that the existing precautions – wash hands properly, coughing etiquette, stay at home if you feel ill – were effectively controlling the spread of “the virus”.

It also means that the peak of the infections occurred PRIOR to the population incarceration commenced and as the average time from catching “the virus” to death has been widely stated as 23 days with the peak numbers of deaths occurring approximately 10-14 days from commencement of the incarceration it means that the imprisonment of the population and destruction of the economy has had NO effect whatsoever.

Don’t you care that this country is being lied to by an unelected cabal? And that the PM and Health Secretary are acting not in the best interests of the country and with decisions based on facts but are following an agenda?

2 – You also stated “We all know that voluntary social distancing was introduced on 16 March, and it was made compulsory a week later on 23 March.”

As the Chair of the relevant Committee and a Member of Parliament surely you know that social distancing has never been law in England?

It is ‘guidance” which has NO force of law nor is enforceable.

As the Chair of the committee you SHOULD know this so why are you still not aware of this? Or is it wilful ignorance?

I suppose that you also believe a “positive test” is something to worry about when it is not.

Why is the Government deliberately misleading the public on this with the MSM willing participants in the psychological propaganda warfare against the British population? You, as an MP, get a lot of expenses each year to hire researchers. If they cannot find out the real facts then you are wasting your money on employing them. Everything you need to know is in the public domain and does not take long to find.

There is enough information and research available to rip the Government’s position to shreds time and time again so why is not one single MP doing it?

Maybe it’s because we are now a country which is a dictatorship that is run by Statutory Instrument, a non-science driven agenda, Ministerial diktat and press briefings as each and as every MP and member of the House of Lords has been supine throughout this whole farce and has not once held the Government to account on any aspect of what has been happening to keep the population of this country scared and under incarceration.

After the experience I and many others have experienced over recent months by being ignored by our MPs, FOI requests, the MSM and the PM himself I don’t expect much in the way of an answer from you.

And please, do not insult me by sending me a standardised form response mentioning “following government guidance” and so on, I have shown you above this is total nonsense.

Either ignore me or supply a reasonable, measured response as to what actions you will be taking to remedy the situation and return this country to a proper democracy.”

Don’t expect much from him.

71602 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #388 of 1309 🔗

I expect this to be memory holed and/or backtracked (e.g. Whitty mispoke) if put under too much pressure.

This reminds me of the letter sent to The Times by the doctor at the centre of the Novichok farce claiming that no one was admitted for nerve agent poisoning. That was all just an in transcription…

71500 stewart, replying to stewart, 33, #389 of 1309 🔗

I just don’t see how anybody capable of thinking for themselves would feel any obligation, moral or otherwise, to follow any of these moronic rules.

The government is clearly never backing down from its position that the virus is super dangerous (which it isn’t) and that it can be suppressed (which it can’t).

The only reasonable response is non-compliance.

71503 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to stewart, 11, #390 of 1309 🔗

We have largely turned into a population that is either too lazy or too scared to think for ourselves. That … worries me. History shows what happens to such populations.

71508 ▶▶ matt, replying to stewart, 16, #391 of 1309 🔗

It occurred to me that, if there was any realistic chance of eradicating the virus, you would also necessarily eradicate all other corona viruses and rhinoviruses and the ‘flu. They all transmit in roughly the same way, so if nobody can pass on a case of SARS-CoV 2, they also can’t pass on any of the others.

Mostly, I think that’s a good exercise in demonstrating quite how stupid the idea is.

71565 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to matt, 4, #392 of 1309 🔗

Exactly. Flu also kills. Maybe less, that’s arguable. But statistically there must be hotspots where flu is killing more people than Covid. If that’s the case, then logically those places should be locked down for flu. And we have never done that.

71652 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to WhyNow, 5, #393 of 1309 🔗

And I like to remind the virtue-signally morons that, at some point in the past, they probably killed an old person when they were walking around and going to work with the flu. We’re all granny killers!

71509 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to stewart, 11, #394 of 1309 🔗

Agreed… I’m not sure even Hancock knows exactly what he’s saying, I certainly don’t.

The law that we’re bringing in is that two households cannot meet in the area defined, but obviously any two households that are meeting should follow the social distancing guidelines,

So households can’t meet – but if they do, even though I just said they can’t, then follow the guidelines?

71700 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to stewart, 1, #395 of 1309 🔗

Hannah Arendt would agree:
“No one has the right to obey.”

71520 Polemon2, 12, #396 of 1309 🔗

Posted onto local shops Facebook page to remind them that their window notice (must wear a mask) was contrary to disability legislation. They responded quickly tat they would change it. Result! (although I have yet to check that they have). However curiously both my post and their reply have disappeared from their Facebook page. I wonder why?

71531 RickH, 19, #397 of 1309 🔗

Just wondering about Deborah Cohen who made that very good report about Leicester on Newsnight, and also discovered that the WHO had been politically leaned on over masks – when’s she going to get moved on. She’s sooooo non-Beeb in doing investigative reporting!

71534 anon, replying to anon, 7, #398 of 1309 🔗

I am going to a pub later.

does anyone have matt handcock’s address and preferably mobile number?

71540 ▶▶ matt, replying to anon, 2, #399 of 1309 🔗

Someone posted the number for his constituency office a few days ago

71545 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to matt, 2, #400 of 1309 🔗

thanks – yes I saw that.

daydreaming earlier I thought I might leave his details. then maybe call up with corona panic and maybe he’d have to quarantine and then perhaps we could section him (before he sections us)

cripes I’m depressed today. sick from it, literally

71552 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to anon, 4, #401 of 1309 🔗

Well, I went out yesterday into the city of London, no less (maskless on the train in) and got well and truly smashed (no idea whether I was maskless on the way back, but presumably I must have been, because I didn’t have a mask with me), so today I’ve been far too bothered by my hangover to start getting depressed about this. Try it – recommended.

71695 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to anon, #402 of 1309 🔗

Ring him – it will cheer you up. 🙂

71575 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to anon, 2, #403 of 1309 🔗

1 Park Farm Cottage,
Park Farm Business Centre,
Fornham Park,
Fornham St Genevieve,
Bury St Edmunds, IP28 6TS
020 219 7186

39 Victoria Street
020 7210 4850


71582 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #404 of 1309 🔗

Oh craaaaaaaaaaaap that’s his actual email address

71585 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Farinances, 10, #405 of 1309 🔗

I might start emailing him daily. Tomorrow, when he gets to his desk at 10am, he will have an email waiting for him that says

“Dear Mr Hancock,

With all due respect, you are a jumped up little turd.

Best regards,

71641 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 1, #406 of 1309 🔗

With how many co-signatories…?

71656 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, #407 of 1309 🔗

I’ll put your name down too Annie

72234 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to matt, #408 of 1309 🔗

It would be better to email him with some choice passages straight from ‘1984’, for example, that would show a strong resemblance to his own policies. Shame him for his Totalitarian posturing.

71597 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Farinances, #409 of 1309 🔗

We need to forward it to 4chan

71955 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #410 of 1309 🔗

Phone number is 666 666 666

71580 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to anon, 2, #411 of 1309 🔗

I write

Matt Handcock / Handjob
10 Downing Street (He wishes)
FU6 0F4

Whatever phone number ususally something involving 80084355 because I remember maths lessons as a kid ;P

71548 Margaret, replying to Margaret, #412 of 1309 🔗

Your life in his hands!


Confusion on how many people are being checked to see if they are abiding by quarantine measures when coming back from Spain.

71592 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Margaret, 8, #413 of 1309 🔗

Best response:
”Poor Mr Hancock! It was a tough opening question tbf. Maybe next time Charlie (Stayt) could break him in gently with a ‘Which is your ar@e and which is your elbow’ type question.”

71640 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 1, #414 of 1309 🔗

No, not that one, don’t want to humiliate the man by asking him a question he plainly couldn’t answer.

71551 Steeve, replying to Steeve, 12, #415 of 1309 🔗

Well from today, right now I am not going to read anything to do with Coronavirus, Covid19 or is that SARS-CoV-2. Deaths, deaths or even all case mortality. R rates. cases or tests. Lockdowns – local, national or in your back garden! To mask or not to mask that is the big question of the day. Visors or make a mask out of knickers with an inbuilt sophisticated one way valve. Vaccines, Zinc, Calcium or hydroxychloroquine or even a fag for that matter. Bubbles, zones and social distancing. 2meters one meter or non. Where to meet and where not to meet! No more graphs, no more charts maybe a new model but do not tell the wife.(only joking darling!) I do not want to read about spikes or waves. Nothing to do with symptoms or no symptoms. Conspiracy theories and vaccines and what was that about quarantine -10days or was it 14? The Air Corridor what the fecking hell is that? Doctors, e pidemiologists and Dr WHO? You can you meet in Cornwall but not in a neighbours garden did someone just write that? Funny I forgot about the NHS and the local surgery!!! Some don’t take cash like that mean old bakers! but more and more would like your tenners and fivers! and I’ve hardly started. Over and out! I might be back!!!! Ok I will – but not before Monday. Have a great weekend! PS Biker are you sure you are not walking into all those shops with leathers and a full face helmet?

71554 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Steeve, #416 of 1309 🔗

Have a good break, enjoy your weekend of freedom.

71555 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Steeve, #417 of 1309 🔗

Have a good ‘time out’ Steeve. We all need it from time to time.

71559 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 11, #418 of 1309 🔗

The public health officials are simply out to lunch.
Someone must surely have told them that, if you look at any data set, you will have outliers. If the public health policy is that we lockdown outliers, we will never stop. It could be outliers for falling off a ladder. Outliers for tripping while putting your trousers on. There will always be outliers.
There has to be a better criterion for intervention than observing an outlier. Is the incidence significantly more fatal than other diseases that we tolerate? I can’t see any evidence for that, since there is no evidence of additional deaths at all.
The government is still running before the wind of the avenging public guardians. I don’t entirely blame them, but I am running out of sympathy.

71562 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to WhyNow, 8, #419 of 1309 🔗

My sympathy went at the mask-wearing stage & it’s definitely not coming back.

71571 JulieR, replying to JulieR, 2, #420 of 1309 🔗

Is anyone going to the protest in London tomorrow?
I want to come.

71590 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to JulieR, 3, #421 of 1309 🔗

So wish I could but live too far away. Enjoy yourself!

71593 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to JulieR, 2, #422 of 1309 🔗

I know how to tie a noose….. 🙂

71627 ▶▶ wendy, replying to JulieR, 3, #423 of 1309 🔗

If anyone hears about one in Manchester do give details

72073 ▶▶ Ben Shirley, replying to JulieR, #424 of 1309 🔗

Yes, I’ll be there.

71576 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #425 of 1309 🔗

came across this, a bit off topic but becoming more relevant by the day.

72385 ▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to Awkward Git, #427 of 1309 🔗

@Awkward Git Sad today and just got sadder but reality must be faced.

71577 Winston Smith, replying to Winston Smith, 3, #428 of 1309 🔗
71618 ▶▶ anon, replying to Winston Smith, #429 of 1309 🔗

bit of commentary to go with the pic winston?

71642 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to anon, 12, #430 of 1309 🔗

Everybody should recognise that image, Mussolini, his girlfriend, his driver and his stooges. Shortly after they were apprehended and shot, their corpses were hung from a petrol station roof.

All dictators should meet that end.

71945 ▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #431 of 1309 🔗

They hung there for 3 days in Milan. Got their just rewards!

71579 Will, 20, #432 of 1309 🔗

No ifs, buts or maybes anymore. Johnson is lying through his teeth. That he can say, with a straight face that infections have been falling since May when they have clearly been falling since March, before he destroyed the country, unnecessarily is all the evidence we need. On the positive side it gives me more confidence that this rise in cases is complete and utter bollocks.

71583 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 14, #433 of 1309 🔗

Probably a silly question, bear with me as I’ve had a beer and are feeling playful.

Why are people being tested if they don’t have any symptoms?

71586 ▶▶ matt, replying to stefarm, 8, #434 of 1309 🔗

Hypochondria. I also suspect that it’s become a kind of badge of pride.

71605 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to matt, 4, #435 of 1309 🔗


“I got tested. Yeah, yeah. It was ok. Yeah. Negative yeah.
I’m gonna go again next week just to make sure. I coughed a bit today.”

71614 ▶▶▶ Hubes, replying to matt, 5, #436 of 1309 🔗

It’s become the badge of being a fucking moron

71692 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Hubes, 2, #437 of 1309 🔗

Thought that was the muzzle ?

71849 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Hubes, #438 of 1309 🔗

Love the straight talking, Hubes. You should have a LS article of your own.

71634 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to matt, 6, #439 of 1309 🔗

Yes. They want to update their Arsebook status to show how they bravely battled the deadly plague.

71587 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 5, #440 of 1309 🔗

Because the Scary Fairy needs a magic dust to exist. Spare bits of RNA provide it.

71601 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to RickH, #441 of 1309 🔗

Do they get a free lollipop?

71635 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to stefarm, 3, #442 of 1309 🔗

No, they tested all the lollipops and they came out positive. Stay away from lollipops, save lives.

71855 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to annie, #443 of 1309 🔗

Should be on a T-shirt. Makes as much sense as orders from this Government of Twerps

71598 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to stefarm, 3, #444 of 1309 🔗

To populate the DNA database

71803 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to JohnB, #445 of 1309 🔗

That has been my question, all of these throat swabs are also gathering each persons DNA

71599 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to stefarm, 1, #446 of 1309 🔗


I think a lot of people are doing it out of curiosity! Weirdos.

71603 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, 5, #447 of 1309 🔗

Yet all these virtue signalling idiots are on about saving the NHS, but then burning up the NHS’s money and time by getting tested even though they’re not ill!

71609 ▶▶ anon, replying to stefarm, 6, #448 of 1309 🔗

one chap I work with couldn’t wait to get tested

to do his part to ‘fight the virus’

he’s old enough to remember the aids bs so should know better

propaganda works

71689 ▶▶▶ Nic, replying to anon, 3, #449 of 1309 🔗

Whatever you do do not get tested

71610 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to stefarm, 6, #450 of 1309 🔗

That is what I don’t understand at all. I posted yesterday that I can’t see any benefit of anybody voluntarily getting tested.

71613 ▶▶ wendy, replying to stefarm, #451 of 1309 🔗

Sometimes they are all forced to have a test like an asylum seekers hostel or factory. Often this is how the asymptomatic folks are found.

71639 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to wendy, #452 of 1309 🔗

Do they get paid? Is there an incentive?

71615 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to stefarm, 5, #453 of 1309 🔗

Because it is what pretentious arse celebrities were doing when the kits were expensive so they could cricle jerk over a positive test while receiving totally genuine sympathy from twitter followers.

71993 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #454 of 1309 🔗

I thought there was something rather suspicious about the numbers of celebs who tested positive – statistically it is unlikely..

71620 ▶▶ stewart, replying to stefarm, 2, #455 of 1309 🔗

It’s all part of the illusion that the government is “controlling the virus”.

This is medieval level ignorance and stupidity.


71644 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to stewart, 2, #456 of 1309 🔗

It is, but at least our medieval ancestors had an excuse.

71699 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, 1, #457 of 1309 🔗

Good point. In more general terms, the language of ‘war’ ‘saving lives’, ‘safety’, ‘battle’ ‘victory’ ‘elimination’ is all incredible *bullshit* from impotent little non-entities trying to sound like big boys in the playground.

You want to seize them by the collar and shout “Grow a pair and get over it”.

71848 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to stewart, #458 of 1309 🔗

Once again- you’re being harsh. The medievals never quarantined healthy people.

71876 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Farinances, 1, #459 of 1309 🔗

They turned me into a newt…

72236 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Sam Vimes, #460 of 1309 🔗

Did you get better?

71636 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to stefarm, 3, #461 of 1309 🔗

To the best of my knowledge normal people don’t keep getting their eyes tested to see if they can’t see

71646 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to stefarm, 2, #462 of 1309 🔗

A lot of companies are making people have tests. My friend works for Amazon and they made her have one yesterday.

71653 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #463 of 1309 🔗

Absolutely vile. (And something I would completely expect of Amazon)

71745 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #464 of 1309 🔗

According to the Amazon propaganda video, sorry advert the employees love working all day wearing masks and gloves

71693 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to stefarm, #465 of 1309 🔗

In Germany, they are now calling for everyone returning from abroad who tested negative to be tested again.
If you tested (likely false) positive imitially, no such luck.
Stasi 2.0
And again, the vast majority of the people are all in.

71702 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to stefarm, 1, #466 of 1309 🔗

There is a lot of pressure to get tested, some people have to for for work reasons otherwise many people who are not regulars to this site, still feel it is a good public spirited thing to do, especially if they have been pestered by the test and trace system. However, as seems to be generally agreed on this site, the test and trace system is a monstrous nightmare being used to beat us all into submission.
I think that if you have a relative in a care home and wish to visit them you now have to be tested, many sports people and the associated staff have to be tested in order to allow games and matches to take place.

71857 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Steve Martindale, #467 of 1309 🔗

I would take my relative out of the care home and tell them to shove their test up their arse. I’d be better at looking after them anyway

71937 ▶▶ Sue, replying to stefarm, #468 of 1309 🔗

Because they’re useless, brain dead f@#$%^s
On 3rd glass of wine…language getting as fruity as the wine! 😀

72026 ▶▶ TJS123, replying to stefarm, 2, #469 of 1309 🔗

A friend is taking part in one of the covid studies, and has fortnightly antibody tests. Has had three so far, the first negative, second positive, 3rd negative again. I don’t think I need to add any comment to that.

71594 Dave, #470 of 1309 🔗


According to these lawyers, as usual the Lasted lockdown is just a load of coronabollox

“ Fiction:

New lockdown laws have been put in place in NW England.


Leaving aside the issue of face covering, nothing has actually changed since ‘independence day’ on 4th July. At that point the government revoked the lockdown restrictions almost in entirety. They left a reducing list of businesses required to stay closed and, otherwise, only a general restriction in England not to gather in groups of more than 30.

That is it. Gathering is explained in more detail in within another post here.

In headline, however, the restriction on gathering in homes (‘private dwellings’) is simply limiting numbers to 30. That gathering can be of multiple families and friends (of any religion or colour, by the way).“

71604 Hubes, replying to Hubes, 56, #471 of 1309 🔗

What an absolute bunch of cunts the government and media are. That’s it. Got nothing else to say.

71616 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Hubes, 15, #472 of 1309 🔗

The Plain English Award, Penetrating Insight Trophy and National Medal for Patriotism all go to Mr. H.

71633 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #473 of 1309 🔗

The medal will be awarded shortly, to loud applause.

71637 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to annie, 6, #474 of 1309 🔗

And a satisfyingly short acceptence speech.

71625 ▶▶ anon, replying to Hubes, 4, #475 of 1309 🔗

an orchestra of cunts

I believe this is the collective noun

other than I’d second the award

71648 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to anon, 4, #476 of 1309 🔗

An orchestra of cunts spewing finely tuned bullshit

71687 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Hubes, 1, #477 of 1309 🔗

Nailed it

71607 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 7, #478 of 1309 🔗

The splendid Mr Young’s link, above, ‘One factor explains… etc’ has a brief but interesting comments thread to explain outliers Japan and Greece, both with elderly populations but (apparently) lower mortality from covid 19.

One comment suggests factoring in obesity as well as age but Greece has a large number of obese individuals.

However I wonder if this other comment is on to something?

Only Japan mandates BCG vaccination in G7, and only Greece in Western European countries. In addition, the BCG vaccination strain used in Japan is the old type (Tokyo-172 strain).’

On checking, Vietnam also has BCG vaccination and very low covid 19 deaths, so much so that a trial of BCG against covid 19 has been suspended for lack of covid 19 infections.

There is a study suggesting BCG vaccination could be the answer until, if ever, a risk free and effective covid 19 vaccine is created:


No doubt too logical and straightforward to catch on………

71629 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #479 of 1309 🔗

And, according to wiki, so do India and Pakistan.

71667 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tim Bidie, 7, #480 of 1309 🔗

After the fourth or fifth doctor died, it seemed statistically significant that they were all from BAME backgrounds. As far as I am aware, all bar one of the doctors who have died have been from BAME backgrounds. Our numpties decided to start investigating inequality and poverty to explain BAME outcomes. Did nobody think to consider whether the BAME doctors who died had all come from TB hotspots – the majority were not born in the UK. Of course, we have stopped routine vaccination here – I had to pay for younger son having been told ‘we have eradicated TB in this country’!

71743 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #481 of 1309 🔗

Vitamin D was the other one they quickly tried to ignore.

The key thing to remember is that we are not trying to solve problems, we’re trying to prolong them.

Edit – my typing is worse than usual today

71766 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #482 of 1309 🔗

We did eradicate TB.
Then we re-imported it.

72068 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Lms23, #483 of 1309 🔗

Not on the basis of conversations I had with someone in around 2005 who would know.

71795 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #484 of 1309 🔗

The reason BCG was stopped was because it is less than 50% effective, and is only given in high risk TB areas. As with most things health wise it is cost v benefits.

71867 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to p02099003, #485 of 1309 🔗

Really? When did they surmise this? (I had it and I’m 36).

Also the costs v. Benefits of a coronavirus vaccine will be a very interesting assessment that won’t be done 😆

71813 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #486 of 1309 🔗

4 or 5 is statistically insignificant. An absolute minimum should be 10 and preferably more.

72060 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Lms23, #487 of 1309 🔗

5 out of 5 is statistically significant. Around a third of all doctors are Asian and Black. The probability of the first five doctors dying and all being BAME is therefore 1/3 x 1/3 x 1/3 x 1/3 x 1/3 = 1/243. This is beyond the 99th percentile.

71862 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #488 of 1309 🔗

Really? Wow

So they stop doing the vaccinations that actually WORK and do a lot of good in favour of rush jobs that are possibly ineffective/dangerous and definitely overpriced?


71674 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #489 of 1309 🔗

Teasing out differences between countries will take time – not least because the data is totally shot, even in terms of this *one* stupid cuntry.

Karl Friston (worth listening to – brilliant & not one of the brown-nosers) suggests that government interventions account for very little of the actual variance between countries, and that a large proportion of variance is simply undefined at this stage. Environmental and population variables are important, in general – but little is confirmed.

Forget snake-oil vaccines and quick fixes. It’s not that serious, anyway.

71622 Fiat, #491 of 1309 🔗

Nick d’Virgilio’s new album, “Invisible” has a song called “Turn Your Life Around” : “Same old time, same old place. Every person in here has the same old face, They never smile, they never laugh. It’s like they’re dead inside. They look human, with hair and skin. They eat and drink but they’re empty within. Automatons, puppets, zombies: they’re dead inside.”
Sounds familiar…..

71624 Montag Smith, replying to Montag Smith, 19, #492 of 1309 🔗

I’m past the point where I care about what the deaths are from Covid now. In the UK the deaths from all causes are approx 1500 per day and the govt is tying the country in knots and making life shite to save a few hundred a month at most now. If it really gave a flying f**k about deaths it would have ensured the NHS had significant fever hospital capacity given that the probability of a pandemic at some point is always 100%. They would also have instituted social distancing laws every flu season.

Sadly almost all countries are the same. Just imagine how societies would really fall apart when we do have serious pandemic, unlike this mild one which has killed less than two of our recent bad flu seasons.

71630 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Montag Smith, 16, #493 of 1309 🔗

Yes, I’m afraid this is a case of the boy who cried wolf, and if we have anything like an Ebola-type virus nobody will believe what the WHO or governments say. Well, if the bodies truly pile up we will, but by then it’ll be quite late. The idea of saving every life was misguided in the first place, and between the lockdown and the cratering world economy many more will die. Funny how some of us knew that from the start…

71647 ▶▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #494 of 1309 🔗

Yep, and if we have another pandemic next year from a more deadly virus then we can’t afford another lockdown.

71989 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Montag Smith, 3, #495 of 1309 🔗

One thing that worries me is that video of Bill G saying people *will* take it seriously *next time* – what has he got planned?

72277 ▶▶▶▶▶ A leaf, replying to Carrie, 2, #496 of 1309 🔗

That video really scared the crap out of me…i seriously don’t wanna know like ever…

71657 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 5, #497 of 1309 🔗

Unfortunately, no one who has ever had any dealings with Ferguson was told the story of the boy who cried wolf…

71663 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 3, #498 of 1309 🔗


‘Save Lives’

… and get shot of this useless crowd of spivs, chancers and fireplace salesmen!

71675 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #499 of 1309 🔗

Unfortunately I think they will believe them, just like the majority believe them now.

71681 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #500 of 1309 🔗

To be fair, MSM has and continues to put the fear of god in a lot of people. Someone said to me recently ‘why would they all lie?’ The look on her face clearly said ‘you’re a nutter’

71816 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #501 of 1309 🔗

To save Covid lives, they sacrificed cancer patients….

71631 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Montag Smith, 3, #502 of 1309 🔗

Indeed that is what’s truly scary. Imagine if this was Bubonic Mk II. We’d be fucked.

71638 stewart, 3, #503 of 1309 🔗

For anyone who wants to understand how the government is making it’s decisions, this might help:


71660 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 15, #504 of 1309 🔗

Government coronavirus logic seems to be working like this:

  • everyone who breathes is alive
  • everyone who is alive eventually dies
  • therefore breathing causes coronavirus making people die
  • everyone must stop breathing
71672 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #505 of 1309 🔗

If you’re breathing you’re a danger.
If you’re alive you’re a danger.
You’re a danger.

71676 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Farinances, 2, #506 of 1309 🔗

Ergo we’re not safe

71678 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to T. Prince, 1, #507 of 1309 🔗

But but but…. I want to be saaaaaaaafe!

71691 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to matt, 2, #508 of 1309 🔗

Dead safe.

71665 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 18, #509 of 1309 🔗

I hold these two truths to be incontrovertible:

  1. The government are doing nothing other than punishing us.
  2. I’m getting another beer.
71668 ▶▶ matt, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #510 of 1309 🔗

I am interested in your theories and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

71682 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to matt, 2, #511 of 1309 🔗

It deginetely makes more sense than those from Conservative HQ.

71856 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #512 of 1309 🔗

And I deginetely had that beer. 🙂

71852 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to matt, #513 of 1309 🔗

To the man that got that beer, and then some, that’s fucking funny. I’m feeling good – obviously that will have to stop.

71669 Will, replying to Will, 1, #514 of 1309 🔗

Just thinking it through, 1/1500 of 13000 is 8 2/3. Thank God for alcohol and Glorious Goodwood.

71680 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Will, 1, #515 of 1309 🔗

Goodwood is cancelled

71684 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to stefarm, 1, #516 of 1309 🔗

Crowds are, sadly but fortunately not the actual racing which has been marvellous.

71756 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Will, #517 of 1309 🔗

Sadly festival of Speed was cancelled.

71784 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to stefarm, 2, #518 of 1309 🔗


71673 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #519 of 1309 🔗


This article just published can give hope for teacher’s union and project fear

“Here, we report that replication of SARS-CoV-2 in older children leads to similar levels of viral nucleic acid as adults, but significantly greater amounts of viral nucleic acid are detected in children younger than 5 years.”

“Our study is limited to detection of viral nucleic acid, rather than infectious virus, although SARS-CoV-2 pediatric studies reported a correlation between higher nucleic acid levels and the ability to culture infectious virus.

“Thus, young children can potentially be important drivers of SARS-CoV-2 spread in the general population, as has been demonstrated with respiratory syncytial virus, where children with high viral loads are more likely to transmit. 6 Behavioral habits of young children and close quarters in school and day care settings raise concern for SARS-CoV-2 amplification in this population as public health restrictions are eased. In addition to public health implications, this population will be important for targeting immunization efforts as SARS-CoV-2 vaccines become available.”

So this is an article for project fear but so far as I know there has never been much reports at all that young children really are spreading in practice.Also this is PCR and not viral cultures.Strange to compare to RS virus which is a childhood disease and doesn’t affect much adults.But be prepared this is an article for project fear and sure is going to be mentioned in MSM.

71759 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to swedenborg, 1, #520 of 1309 🔗

So why has there been no evidence of children transmitting the virus anywhere?
Is this another fake study from the same company that did the fake HcQ paper for the Lancet?

71783 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Lms23, #521 of 1309 🔗

The flaw is that they have not cultivated the virus. There has been discussion of cross reactivity with PCR Sars-Cov2 with other common coronavirus.If you are trying to exploit such a study they really should have done viral cultures to prove the thing especially when all epidemiological evidence is that small children seldom ill of Covid-19(and can have other cornaviruses) and that they don’t spread to others.

71870 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to swedenborg, 1, #522 of 1309 🔗

Kids are always poorly and I have been subject to many of the same coughs, colds etc because of it. Choice between seeing and holding and being with my grandchildren or not…I know what I would choose…and F*** the virus or anything else!

71894 ▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #523 of 1309 🔗

Interesting that they found more viral replication in the children under 5. Perhaps the coronavirus that gives the most cross-immunity had a particularly good year about 5 years ago.

Once people get elderly they tend to get more ill because their immune systems and bodies generally are getting a bit worn out and they’re more likely to have comorbidities. But there seems to be a much stronger age-dependence with Covid-19 especially in the young, where it seems the younger you are the better (although it now it seems that >5 is a bit better than <5).

This study (thanks to swedenborg the other day for the link) https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.14.095414v1 was the first to actually find neutralizing antibodies for SARS2 in children who had not been exposed to SARS2. Cross-reactive T-cells had been found before which was very encouraging but this was a smoking gun.

I suspect the cross-immunity comes from another coronavirus (or coronaviruses) that have been endemic for years, and that most people got when they were children. The older you are, the longer ago you were first infected. Over time the virus mutates a bit and your immune memory fades a bit. You probably get reinfected now and then, but the existing cross-immunity still helps you out, and so you don’t lay down such a strong immune memory that’s specific to the newer viruses.

Children, simply because they are younger, have a more recent version of the anti-virus software against the more recent versions of the viruses, perfectly adapting them to the world they are going to grow up in.

This is all speculation of course 🙂

71988 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, #524 of 1309 🔗

Remember that the language from Hancock has now changed from Covid to coronavirus. Children *do* spread other viruses. They can now conjure up a second wave by talking about children spreading coronavirus in the autumn when all that will really be happening is the normal spreading of other cold-type viruses..

71688 nottingham69, replying to nottingham69, 16, #525 of 1309 🔗

Have to say Johnson’s speech earlier was worrying in the extreme. The guy is winging it with self-preservation the main driver. This charlatan is going to irrevocably wreck large chunks of our culture and the sheep and media are letting it happen. The opposition response is frankly sickening.

71708 ▶▶ RickH, replying to nottingham69, #526 of 1309 🔗

So nothing new there, then. 🙂

71696 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #527 of 1309 🔗

Oh. My. God. Start a rumour that they’re going to come after our pets. I don’t want to lose our pet, but I wouldn’t put it past this crazy government/sinister organisation to follow the logic of their ‘models’ and declare it so.

The cretins who comment in social media, criticising people who go to the beach or the pub… Tell them their cat is going to be gassed or something. It would be a glorious thing to behold. Testing of pets starts next week!

71730 ▶▶ Lms23, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #528 of 1309 🔗

Don’t give them ideas.

71758 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Barney McGrew, #529 of 1309 🔗

Good idea. That might wake up some of the docile cretins. How can you do that on Twatter? I’m not a user.

71873 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #530 of 1309 🔗

Luckily for my dick of a cat, he is incredibly good at anti-social distancing

71697 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #531 of 1309 🔗

This was quite cathartic

‘Jim Jordan TRIGGERS Fauci, Gets Him to Admit His Own Stunning Hypocrisy’

71727 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #532 of 1309 🔗

Good to see that in the USA there are people standing up to this tripe.

71980 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #533 of 1309 🔗

That was brilliant! Btw does Fauci have some kind of speech impediment? At the beginning when he says ‘mask’ it sounds like ‘mast’…but maybe it’s a slip up as he is clearly struggling with being put on the spot. It is clear he is worried about being ‘cancelled’ if he says the wrong thing..

71698 mjr, replying to mjr, 8, #534 of 1309 🔗

just received an email to tell me that the local ice rink which was due to open tomorrow will not now open. Doesnt really bother me as if i skate i fall on my arse all the time.
Hey – I could be Prime minister

71739 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to mjr, 2, #535 of 1309 🔗

He doesn’t go skating because it gives him a sore elbow.

71701 DThom, replying to DThom, 18, #536 of 1309 🔗

Just had a conversation with a bed wetting neighbour. He’s so worried that they are going out “as little as possible”
Asked if he was wearing a mask “yes it’s required”. Said I was not going to wear one and pointed out that they do not protect against virus particles 1000th the size of a human hair.
Likened me to an arsehole. Said I could be passing the virus on. I replied that I could be spreading flu or any other disease. Yes but that’s not the same as the virus.
What a prat! I used to think that he had some sense.
I Know who the real arsehole is!
Very opinionated person who we fortunately don’t have a lot to do with

71841 ▶▶ Lili, replying to DThom, 2, #537 of 1309 🔗

These are the pathetic numpties the rest of us have to be muzzled up for. No thanks.

71706 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 22, #538 of 1309 🔗

Fly on the wall

Let’s pretend I was a fly on the wall listening to the decision about northern towns.

It’s the Muslim festival of Eid on Friday, a civil servant points out, and lots of young people will mix with elderly, risking a virus spike.

Crikey, says Boris, we must stop this. So Matt, tweet a restriction.

Oh that’s targeting a community, shrieked local mayor. Let’s be PC says Matt, and pause casino opening. Yes, says Brois, and throw in masks to the cinemas too.

You couldn’t make it up.

What should they have done?
Nothing in law. They could have said Happy Eid and pointed out the risk, letting families decide for themselves.

That’s what looks like the reality.
Sorry if that offends anyone, but I think it would bettwr the truth spelled out than politicians play silly games.

71712 ▶▶ RickH, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #539 of 1309 🔗

Who’s offended?

71726 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to RickH, 2, #540 of 1309 🔗

Over-privileged, over-educated white twats?

71731 ▶▶ Will, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #541 of 1309 🔗

Doesn’t offend me. And probably very close to the truth.

71707 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 17, #542 of 1309 🔗

 “At some point, we are going to have to throw in the towel. Whether a country locks down or stays open has as much predictive power over deaths per million as whether it rains today is related to the color of my socks. Or whether hurricanes are controlled by literacy rates.
In other words, the claim that lockdowns control viruses is pseudoscience or magical thinking of a deeply dangerous sort; it wrecks economies and lives.”
One of the comments
“The virus doesn’t care. Period. It doesn’t think or feel. You can’t intimidate it. You can’t negotiate with it. Yet both sides have anthropomorphized the virus into some malevolent intelligence, to portray their opposition as somehow being in league with it. It’s insane.

71728 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to swedenborg, 5, #543 of 1309 🔗

Despite all the stalling tactics, in the end only 2 things matter, total weekly deaths compared to average and serious intensive care hospital cases. I feel that this current lockdown nonsense can only carry on for a limited time before all the chickens will come home to roost. Mind you even then the powers that be will probably just announce ‘glory be’ didn’t we do well and now it is all over.

71777 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Martindale, #544 of 1309 🔗

How long do you think that limited time will be?

71736 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to swedenborg, 1, #545 of 1309 🔗

You make it sound like the terminator.good point though

71709 Nic, replying to Nic, 2, #546 of 1309 🔗

Russia have a vaccine, they are starting to use it in August if it works will be intersting as unfortunately most of this country wont go back to.normal unless they get a jab even if its saline

71757 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nic, 7, #547 of 1309 🔗

You don’t *really* think that you will get any sense out of that experiment?

Bottom line : it is impossible to produce a certifiably safe vaccine in this sort of timescale. Any such claims are bullshit.

71764 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to RickH, 2, #548 of 1309 🔗

In Soviet Russia, vaccines inject you.

71778 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RickH, 1, #549 of 1309 🔗

Agree agree agree. I can’t understand how anyone can utter the word ‘safe’ all the time and yet subscribe to this vaccine being at all ‘safe’.

71800 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Farinances, #550 of 1309 🔗

The “safe” ones aren’t even safe! Manufacturers will not be held liable for any deleterious effects but stand to make millions or billions of dollars. What could go wrong???

72164 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #551 of 1309 🔗

They can be held liable in the EU, though not in US, don’t know about Canada. Doubtless American pharma will insist on UK accepting US rules in the Wrexit trade deal.

71718 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #552 of 1309 🔗

I see that Del Bigree “The HighWire” has been deleted from YT.

Not surprising, but Del has been producing similar shows for the last few years, as far as I am aware he has not previously had problems with YT.

MSM, Social Media & big business seems to have conspired again free speech & comment.

Quote from Del “This is now a war for truth”

71797 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #553 of 1309 🔗

I heard about Del last night and will donate. Brian Rose of London Real had to create his own non-censored platform as well after being threatened by YouTube. He’s had some great guests that I know Lockdown Sceptics would enjoy. Some of the money I’m not spending at the shops is going toward donating to those who are fighting censorship.

71837 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #554 of 1309 🔗

I’m doing that too. It’s a good feeling.

72423 ▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #555 of 1309 🔗

Me too, I’ll like to throw in a mention for UK Column News – broadcast three times a week.

71851 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, #556 of 1309 🔗

The HighWire is at:


71740 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #558 of 1309 🔗

Is that the drone NASA just sent to Mars?

71966 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, #559 of 1309 🔗

No, it is (as someone wrote on Twitter), a Mr Whippy with a drone on top!

71729 Nic, replying to Nic, 8, #560 of 1309 🔗

We have all got to ask what is the end game? Nobody has ever asked this question we cant carry on like this it’s got to be asked and the government has to reply otherwise we cannot plan our futures

71746 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Nic, 2, #561 of 1309 🔗

Eventually when all the nonsense possibilities are played out and they think they are safe, they will announce ‘Praise be to Boris the beast is slain and Boris will look to be revered like Nelson, Churchill or Francis Drake.

71772 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #562 of 1309 🔗

He’ll be gone well before that point.

71775 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 6, #563 of 1309 🔗

His eyes look completely dead to me. If I thought the technology existed, I’d lay decent odds that his time in intensive care was to rewire his brain with a remote control or something.

71804 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cicatriz, 5, #564 of 1309 🔗

Agree. He is mentally unfit, and there is something going on with his gait (implies neurological condition?). Possible reason why he needs a spokesperson – he can barely string the sentences together.

71820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ AllieT, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #565 of 1309 🔗

I said that to my husband when he was interviewed the other day at D. St by La Keunessberg his gait looked dodgy as he followed her into the room. He clearly follows a script when making announcements & reads from an ‘idiot board’

71825 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to AllieT, 8, #566 of 1309 🔗

I was reminded today of something that should have occured to me much earlier.

A great many people who spend time in hospital with a serious condition – especially in ICU – come out with PTSD.

This can last for years and be utterly debilitating in a dozen different ways. When I look at Boris in that light, he seems like an open and shut case, and he should be under psychiatric care, not running the bloody country.

71831 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, 3, #567 of 1309 🔗

Broadmoor seems appropriate in this case.

71836 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mark, 6, #568 of 1309 🔗

A bit bloody cushy that, if you ask me. Shutter Island.

71832 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to AidanR, #569 of 1309 🔗

Fair point. I’m not making claims to know what’s going, but from all angles that I look, it does not appear to be good.

71926 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to AidanR, 1, #570 of 1309 🔗

About 6 weeks ago a neighbour pointed out a text from a friend – a retired doctor – also said PTSD/possible nervous breakdown. He is not fit for the job, and this is dangerous.

72180 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to AidanR, #571 of 1309 🔗

He was only put on Cpap ventilator though, not into a coma for intubation. Think he was conscious throughout, able to understand what was going on, so PTSD less likely..

71830 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #572 of 1309 🔗

I’ve thought that he doesn’t look the same and wondered if he’d been reprogrammed.

71897 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #573 of 1309 🔗

He had a frontal lobotomy! His time in ITU was post operative care!

71961 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #574 of 1309 🔗

You’d think he had been cloned…replaced by a robot..

71960 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #575 of 1309 🔗

I’d like to think so, but I fear he will not be ditched till after 31st December, ie once we (in theory) are out of the EU, because he wants that to be his legacy..

72029 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Steve Martindale, #576 of 1309 🔗

He is acting like Winston Smith at the end of the novel, and even more, like a victim of Stalin’s physical and psychological torture of opponents: shambling into the light, ready to mumble agreement with anything.
Many of Stalin’s opponents were intelligent and courageous to begin with, yet they were broken.
You could have snapped Boris with your little finger. And they have done.

BTW, how long is it since he was saying that the chances of meeting an infected person were less than 1 in 1000, so it was safe to go out and mingle … not a whisper then about face nappies?

71747 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nic, 4, #577 of 1309 🔗

It’s a really good question. I doubt that the lying narcissists and their idiot bag carriers have got anywhere near asking that question.

71798 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Nic, 8, #578 of 1309 🔗

Boris’s end game, in my view, is mass vaccination of the UK population as the giant Phase III trial before it is administered to the rest of the world. Until then, we are being treated to ‘on-off’ lockdown as per the Ferguson paper of 16 March. We are not going to get to Boris’s end game because there will not be an effective vaccine before the economy goes over the cliff in the autumn. At that point the Tory ‘men in grey suits’ stage an internal rebellion that will be quick and brutal. It will be over by November/December – no Boris, no Hancock and a few others with them.

71845 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #579 of 1309 🔗

I like your style and kinda hope you’re right (can we have this without the lockdown pwease?). I’d love to see a Tory backbencher takedown of these goons. I’d love to see them dragged down the street behind a cart more, but that would do.

71902 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #580 of 1309 🔗

God i hope you’re right…but he’s going to stick like a limpet to a rock and refuse to budge his policies or position.
Being PM has been his fantasising dream since Eton and he isn’t going to give it up.

71973 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #581 of 1309 🔗

I hope you’re right TT, this thing must collapse under its own sheer weight.

72292 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #582 of 1309 🔗

I hope you’re right but looks like the Tory “men in grey suits” will need a nudge from the Great British Public taking matters into their own hands.

71957 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nic, #583 of 1309 🔗

Well one thing – due to be introduced in September, is the Covipass… no test/vaccine = no travel…

71734 annie, replying to annie, 7, #584 of 1309 🔗

Mainly for the Christians among us, though others may find it worth reading.

There are dissenters in the C of E! This piece was written by one of them, somewhat earlier in the Great Incarceration, but it remains relevant. Posted in two parts owing to length:

The mantra stay at home; protect the NHS; save Lives has , although recently modified at the time of writing this article, has become more than familiar over the past few weeks. We have seen it plastered on to street signs and podiums, and heard it drummed into our heads through endless repetition by politicians, health experts and indeed bishops.

It’s probably a deficient side to my character, but whenever I hear a slogan being pushed at me in quite such a remorseless way, I feel stirrings of rebellion. And whilst I appreciate the importance of such clear and simple message in a time of emergency, I also think it is good for Christians to be aware of ways in which we might both question it and seek to go beyond it.

Stay at home

The lockdown of this and many other countries was, of course, introduced with much consideration and, in the case of the UK government, with apparent reluctance. We need to pray for those entrusted with such weighty decisions. Early on in the crisis, the Dominican scholar Fr Thomas Joseph White argued in the journal First Things , in opposition to some of his more libertarian colleagues that this decision had been both necessary and right. ‘In requesting a thoroughgoing but temporary quarantine,’ White wrote, ‘governments across the world are following both traditional time-tested procedure and proven scientific advice. In doing so they are acting in accord with human inclinations to protect life that are both basic and intrinsically good, even ineradicably so, despite the effects of sin on political organisations’.

A nationwide, and indeed international, lockdown is however an extraordinarily blunt instrument with which to combat a specific virus. And whilst I do not think I can entirely identify with so-called lockdown sceptics in their confident proclamation that ‘the cure is worse than the disease’, I am certainly glad that such voices exist.

For middle class people such as myself who live in nice houses with big gardens, country walks on the doorstep and a contented family life, many aspects of the lockdown have been quite pleasant. But this experience is completely overshadowed as one starts to consider the consequences of this policy: the severe economic downturn with consequent unemployment that now beckons; the harm already caused to the mental and physical health of many people; the rise in domestic abuse; a generation of children deprived of months in education; elderly people in abject misery and loneliness, and the greatest infringement of civil liberties that we have seen in modern times. In the context of all this, I am glad that we have people challenging the reasons for these measures and insisting that they should not carry on for a moment longer than necessary.

In the Church of England we have had a parallel group: church closure sceptics from all shades of theological opinion, who asked persistently why it was necessary for the archbishops and bishops to go beyond government guidance (and indeed canon law) and insist that church buildings should entirely closed for several weeks. On a YouTube video in early April, the Archbishop of Canterbury explained the reasons why he thought some of us had raised such questions: ‘they range from conspiracy ideas that we’ve always really wanted to, through to comments about obsession with health and safety and all this sort of thing’. I for one believe that this entirely misrepresented my reason for being a church closure sceptic. Primarily, it was because I believe our churches should be living, thriving centres of worship and mission which point towards Christ in their local communities, and are as open as possible – even in times of necessarily restricted conditions.

71744 ▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 8, #585 of 1309 🔗


Protect the NHS

The second part of the mantra is one that I have kept on finding somewhat counter-intuitive. The NHS is there to protect us : so it is an odd, although in the circumstances understandable, decision to reverse this and say that we should now be protecting it .

Of course, we enter into very sensitive territory here because nobody would want to deny that doctors, nurses and many other health care workers have done sacrificial and often heroic work throughout the crisis. I believe that we should thank God for them and give them all the praise and applause that is due. The NHS, however, is not the individual health workers but an institution that organises healthcare in this country in a particular way. And, because it is a human institution, like all others it is imperfect. So, whilst we may be concerned to protect hospitals from becoming overrun at the current time, this should not be conflated with automatic and unquestioning allegiance to the NHS as an institution for evermore. After the rational examination that will hopefully take place in due course, it may – or may not – turn out that other systems would have been more fit for purpose and that changes can and should be made.

Most of all, we should surely resist what sometimes comes uncomfortably close to setting up the National Health Service as an idol. An example of this disappointingly came from the Prime Minister himself who, after his discharge from hospital, told the nation that ‘our NHS is the beating heart of this country…. It is unconquerable. It is powered by love’.

This is an extraordinary thing to say at Easter and I believe Christians must be clear that we cannot support it. To rephrase Mr Johnson’s words, we will rather say that God the Father is the loving, creative centre of all being and life; that Jesus his son has risen unconquerable from the tomb; and that the Holy Spirit pours love into our hearts’. Worship of the NHS – or of any other alternative national religion – will never bring salvation, nor provide rest for any human heart.

Save Lives

As I have already noted, we can and should applaud and pray for those who work to save and prolong people’s lives. At the same time, however, the particular calling of the Church in this sort of crisis is surely to point people towards the eternal hope of a life beyond death: a fact that has been accentuated by the fact that this crisis has taken place during Eastertide – the season of the resurrection. Since, in catholic theology, grace builds on nature: it is quite possible – and indeed necessary – to affirm and applaud the natural efforts of those who use human skills to save and prolong life, whilst at the same time pointing towards a supernatural hope.

In an article for the Daily Telegraph , the historian Tom Holland acknowledges that the Church through the ages has often taken the lead in caring for the weak and the vulnerable when no one else would do so, but he laments the fact that in this crisis she has not spoken more confidently into the public square about the hope of eternal life. ‘The welfare state can provide care for the sick,’ Holland writes, ‘but it cannot provide what Christianity, over the past 2,000 years, has provided to so many countless people, and to such transformational effect: an explanation for the existence of suffering that offers the assurance as well that all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well’.

Of course, modern western society has largely lost this hope and, as those who officiate at funerals know only too well, many seem to have very little interest in it. And yet this, rather than ‘save lives’, is the message that our society desperately needs. For the fact that people perceive physical death as their final end surely lies at the bottom of the highly anxious, fearful, risk-averse culture that we now inhabit – and which has caused widespread fear of post-lockdown life as well as chilling predictions such as ‘social distancing is here to stay’. For if this life is the only life we shall ever have, it is only logical to be extremely fearful about losing it. And it is precisely here that the Christian faith opens up a different perspective that is full of hope and promise.

71749 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to annie, 6, #586 of 1309 🔗

Last bit:

Sent from my iPa

The gospels show us Jesus throughout his ministry constantly seeking to protect human life; to feed people, heal them and raise them up; occasionally he even restores the dead to mortal life. And yet, in some stark sayings in all four gospels, the Lord who would rise from the dead teaches his followers that our mortal life is not the only one we shall ever have, and that we do not therefore need anxiously to give it an ultimacy that it does not deserve, for ‘those who love their life lose it, and those who hate their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.’ (Jn 12.25, cf. Mt 10.39; Mk 8.35; Lk 9.24)

It was not wrong to espouse the message stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives , and yet this message is far from the fullness of what as Christians we are called upon to say – and hopefully now we will say with increasing confidence and clarity.

71779 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to annie, 4, #587 of 1309 🔗

Very good & thank you for posting.

Of course, with Bojo announcing face masks in church from now on, I fear it is Zoom services all the way!

71951 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #588 of 1309 🔗

I think the masks in churches is going to be their defence to Christian concern’s legal case re the shutting of the churches. That case invokes our Magna Carta rights which the government won’t want discussed. I think their aim is to render the case irrelevant, ie be able to get the application for Judicial review turned down, by claiming the churches are not shut.

71808 ▶▶▶▶ AllieT, replying to annie, 2, #589 of 1309 🔗

Thank you Annie from a fellow Christian & great fan of this site. I am especially incensed at Boris lumping churches together with ‘museums & galleries’ as full of the general public intent on avoiding each other. My church is independent & we all know each other have been meeting again since 5th July. They have already shut down our singing now want us in masks! Well we also start with coffee & cake so can’t be muzzled for that!

71861 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to annie, 3, #590 of 1309 🔗

Thanks for this, as a Christian believing in a sovereign God who appoints those who rule over us, the good and the bad, I’ve still struggled to get my head around all this, trying to apply the teaching of Philippians 4 has been helpful, do not be anxious about anything, etc.

72039 ▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Moomin, #591 of 1309 🔗

I would like to have more discussion with like-minded Christians. How to continue a spiritual life with these impediments.

71752 ▶▶▶ James007, replying to annie, 3, #592 of 1309 🔗

Thank you for posting this. Where did you see it?
I mean no disrespect to all those working hard to deliver food parcels and keep community services going, but the church continues to be a huge disappointment to me.

71754 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to James007, 2, #593 of 1309 🔗

It’s from a magazine called New Directions, which I think you can access online, but it was sent to me direct.

71952 ▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to annie, #594 of 1309 🔗


I never thought I would say this –
It’s also nice to know there are Christians out there who think that closing churches indefinitely is a bad idea.

71735 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 18, #595 of 1309 🔗

I think I am slowly loosing a good friend due to cv19, we are struggling to have a conversation without him veering towards deaths, cases & today vaccines entered the conversation. I try to have conversation which do not go near cv19, I have explain this to him, but we keep going in that direction.

After he mentioned vaccines today I asked did he know anything about the UK vaccines? No but it will get things back to normal.

I had to make my excuses and leave as I think my friend will be at the front of the queue with his sleeve rolled up & ready. He is a clever bloke and prior to this I thought that he did his own thinking, no longer.

The info I rely upon has been researched by myself or others I trust, he gets his info from MSM.

This hurts.

Beers are chilling.

71742 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dave #KBF, 5, #596 of 1309 🔗

I feel for you. It’s distressing to see the brains of good friends going walkabout.

But “ He is a clever bloke”

I fear not that clever. Not clever enough to suss a con.

71776 ▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to RickH, 1, #597 of 1309 🔗

I am also losing a friend because of this. He joined the Tory Party so parrots their untruths, but goes beyond, and thinks people like me should sign a waiver on NHS treatment. Actually, I expect if I did I might increase my overall chances of survival, as the NHS could kill me, just as much as save me, through sins of omission or even commission!

71790 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Cambridge N, 3, #598 of 1309 🔗

I’m also been losing a friend. He’s just sort of resigned to the official narrative and resultingly depressed. Drinking a lot now as a coping mechanism, with some unfortunate side effects.

71828 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cambridge N, 10, #599 of 1309 🔗

Bloody cheek this idea that somehow collective healthcare gives people the right to restrict others’ freedoms (the flipside of requiring them to waive care if they do something supposedly dangerous).

The NHS has done the opposite of covering itself in glory during this self-inflicted crisis and I’d love to waive future NHS care in return for a refund of all the taxes I’ve paid in.

71833 ▶▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Mark, 1, #600 of 1309 🔗

me too!!! did you see this clip?

This cjhap sent it to Ana Brees…its on her youtube if this link dosen’t work…it made my blood boil beyond the telling of it!

72086 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Azoumi, #601 of 1309 🔗

I agree, that is infuriating. I suspect we’ve both had conversations like that with coronapanickers, though – that pig-headed, smug belief that their ignorance is actual wisdom, and the willful refusal to consider any other possibility is infuriating to deal with. The problem is that you would need to sit them down and bombard them with facts, studies and hours of analysis (which we here on LS have taken the time to go through over the past few months) to make up for all the false information they’ve had their heads filled with by our media and government.

As is so often the case, it’s not what they don’t know that is the problem, it’s what they know that isn’t true.

71838 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Mark, 6, #602 of 1309 🔗

This has always been the problem with socialised health care… it makes everyone’s decisions as to what they do with their bodies everyone else’s business.

72088 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, #603 of 1309 🔗

Something I’ve been harping on about since at least the introduction of the disgraceful seatbelt law.

By the way, I’d recommend you take a seat and some of your stress relief of choice before watching that video link in Azoumi’s reply. It’s pretty damned irritating.

71760 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Dave #KBF, 11, #604 of 1309 🔗

Don’t just let the friendship fizzle out. Burn it down with extreme prejudice. Let him know exactly why, otherwise he’ll live on under some comforting delusion.

71774 ▶▶ Gracie Knoll, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #605 of 1309 🔗

We have had a flu vaccine for many years. In the 2017-18 flu season we had over 50,000 UK deaths. 2014-15 we had nearly 30,000 UK deaths from the flu. Effective stuff, huh?

There is no reason to think that a C19 vaccine will be any more effective, yet it is being touted as the “miracle salvation” without which we shall be forever living masked and distanced.

The vaccine has bugger all to do with health, and everything to do with CONTROL and MONEY. Especially if it is made compulsory, because we will have then made the Govt and the Drug Lords the LEGAL OWNERS of our bodies. We will be their PROPERTY – like cattle. To do with whatever they wish. And what Gates and his cronies wish, is to euthanise the old and sterilise the young.

Here is psychologist and life coach Ralph Smart (great enthusiasm with an engagingly eccentric Chris Eubank vibe) telling it like it is:


71911 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Gracie Knoll, #606 of 1309 🔗

You were and are much more likely to get Covid and become seiously ill due to it if you had a flu shot.
That is an established fact by now, and logical in light of your thereby alone weakened immune system.

And if the flu and those flu vaccines are any guidance, the new vaccines will indeed be inefficient, weakening your immune system and to be administered annually.

At horrendous costs to our health systems, which must mean cuts elsewhere, at oncology, cardio, orthopedics etc..

71943 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, #607 of 1309 🔗

The video of Bill Gates being interviewed about the side effects being experienced by people in the current vaccine trials is very telling… his body language says it all..

71786 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Dave #KBF, 6, #608 of 1309 🔗

I’m trying to avoid the same thing with a 20+ year friend. She has lupus and is understandably afraid, but to be honest she was crazy before Covid — had everyone hand sanitize before coming into her home, would only get on a plane sitting next to a family member, wiped down airline seats and hotel rooms (maybe not so crazy), etc. Covid has taken her crazy to a whole new level. Visiting her is outside only but she knew without bathroom access nobody would come, so the protocol is to wear a mask, not touch anything on the way down to the basement bathroom that is the guest bathroom. I’d rather pee my pants than wear a mask to walk down to her washroom. When I did visit a few weeks ago I was not allowed to pet the dog until I sanitized my hands, hubby and I had to sit at a separate table 6+ feet away (not so terrible), and when we left her husband gave me a flashlight to use to get back to the front yard and our car but I handed it back to him into a Lysol wipe. While it was a nice visit and not super contentious, I simply won’t visit again under these conditions. I felt like a diseased leper and was treated as one. We’ve been honest with each other as I had to ask her to not send me any “funny” mask stuff and videos on how to sanitize my groceries, and she understood and is fine with that. But at some point I will have to explain to her that for my own mental health I can only be around people with whom I can act normally. I’ll be ask kind as I can, but if it breaks up our friendship than so be it. I feel your pain Dave.

71799 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #609 of 1309 🔗

It’s not to do with the Lupus… my mother’s best friend has had lupus for years… she has no time at all for any of this nonsense. She doesn’t know how many years she has left, and she has no intention of living like this for the rest of her life, however long or short that may be.

71827 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to AidanR, #610 of 1309 🔗

Yes, some people with risk factors are taking it more in stride than others. I’d have more respect for her if she was OK to keep herself safe and locked down but was also OK with everyone else going about the business of living. But of course she thinks people who don’t wear masks are horrible. Back in March she said she was glad people now have a sense of what she lives with all the time and that she hopes all the sanitizing never stops. She’s making her backyard even more inviting for guests (mosquito protection, fire pit) because she’s dreading the day nobody will come and see her and she’ll be truly locked down. Oh, well. Hard to feel sorry for her. I don’t see her letting anyone into the house, so it’s going to be a very long winter.

72136 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #611 of 1309 🔗

It’s_never_ lupus.

(Sorry – House joke. Inappropriate)

71823 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Dave #KBF, 4, #612 of 1309 🔗

Dave, it’s tough. All of my friends have been found to be docile and unquestioning. I’m the only one that feels there is something very wrong about all this. I think that most people just don’t want to think and if you make them think then you become the bad guy. Take heart that you have new friends here. I’m sure we will all meet up in person when this is over. If you accept hugs then I’m giving you a massive one right now.

71751 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 4, #613 of 1309 🔗

Joe Rappoport with another powerful article – full of hard hitting truths as usual- explaining how once mentally tough and resilient US athletes and New Yorkers have all fallen for the Covid narrative. Some selections below but the entire article is definitely worth reading:

“… people were once strong, independent, resistant, and highly suspicious of all efforts to entrain them into cartoon versions of themselves. But after enough messaging, they became docile.”

“But again, it goes beyond that to basic courage and independence, which these players are showing NONE of.”

“… the trick is starting out with something genuine—and then twisting it into an artificial shape and imposing it on the mind.”

“Their natural impulses to do good have been turned against them, through the magic of years and years of propaganda messaging”.


71875 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Humanity First, #614 of 1309 🔗

As I said, they don’t deserve to live free anymore.

71763 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 17, #615 of 1309 🔗

I am absolutely incandescent with rage over today’s announcement. The mandatory muzzling will mean that compulsory redundancies will become inevitable in my workplace which is already reeling from low visitor numbers. I fear that we will go in the way of the retail and hospitality sectors

Of course we will get the usual upper MC Karens and Kevins but their numbers will not be enough to keep us afloat.

It makes you wonder if Johnson and Lieutenant Gruber are setting us up for a Carthaginian style destruction. After the Third Punic War, Carthage was finally defeated by the Romans and became a Roman province. To ensure that Carthage would never again be in a position to challenge Rome, the city was systematically destroyed and the surviving population sold into slavery.

All the insanity that they have inflicted us with convinces me that’s what they’re doing. Otherwise why would they want to destroy the UK economy?

71796 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Bart Simpson, 8, #616 of 1309 🔗

Yes, the insanity continues, but once the mask-wearing diktat came in, I thought it would only be a matter of time before it was expanded to all outside areas, as well as inside. After weeks of saying how healthy it is to be outside in the fresh air, I am waiting see which excuse they use to explain mask-wearing outdoors.

71802 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 4, #617 of 1309 🔗

I can now see why they have those conspiracy theories about mandatory muzzling – TPTB know that they’re an immunity suppresant so by forcing the populace to wear muzzles, it will weaken their immune systems and the spate of coughs and colds in the winter could be dressed up as the “second wave”

At some point this can’t go on, I get the feeling that this can trigger something that would make 2011 look like a picnic.

71898 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #618 of 1309 🔗

Masks ARE dangerous.
I think we/the real science established that.
A new German study demonstrated huge psychological damage to many as well.
They also make stupid, see article in the critic, which is, of course, just another reasin to mandate wearing them.

SD is also cruel, inhumane, torture, and pretty pointless infection-wise, which is to be expected, when we consider that its application here is still mainly based upon the high school trial of a 14 year old.

Hannah Arendt knew what it really is for: to isolate men into individuals and thereby make the individuals who dissent powerless, and to prevent their dissent from becoming organized, and thereby powerful again.

71913 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #619 of 1309 🔗

Agree. Muzzles are dehumanising and becomes a barrier – literally a Berlin Wall. God knows what will happen to the children when they grow up.

And social distancing is a technique used in prisons, concentration camps and gulags – its designed to break the human spirit and the capacity to bond with each other. Ditto “bubbles”, another form of control – its not surprising that the government has used a cute and innocent sounding word to hide something sinister and totalitarian.

71810 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 4, #620 of 1309 🔗

The strategy so far has been a class example of stretching the Overton window where an idea is casually dropped into the public domain (e.g. we won’t force wearing masks) to let people get used to the idea even if they don’t agree.

Afterwards, largely thanks to an unsceptical compliant press, just pretend they never said anything to the contrary earlier.

Like you, I also expect wearing of masks everywhere all the time (and the date of their introduction 24/7 was just a little bit coincidental).

71817 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #621 of 1309 🔗

It does seem like someone, somewhere, wants to punish the country for Brexit by destroying it.

71835 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lili, 5, #622 of 1309 🔗

You spoke up for Brexit. They didn’t like it. So they muzzled you. Literally.

71903 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #623 of 1309 🔗

I was a staunch Remainer.
As this was and is the rational decision.
And I am a staunch lockdown critic, HCQ advocate, mask rebel and defender of free speech, as these are the rational and morally correct views.

71882 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lili, 1, #624 of 1309 🔗

Yep. As Mr Bart summarises it – those someones are thinking “how dare those little people not do what they’re told!”

71969 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Bart Simpson, #625 of 1309 🔗

Except it was Boris what told you all to vote brexit, and it’s now him forcing masks on everyone…

71979 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark II, 3, #626 of 1309 🔗

Johnson was never a keen Brexiter and was always an opportunist follower rather than a leader. He jumped on the bandwagon because he thought he could ride it to fame and advancement (and I don’t believe for a moment he really thought he could win the referendum, any more than the imbecile Cameron thought he could lose it).

71768 DRW, replying to DRW, 21, #627 of 1309 🔗

The worst thing about all of this personally is going from loving to hating my job and colleagues. I once really enjoyed it all but since lockdown it’s obvious what a complete joke the public sector really is. Nearly everyone at my organisation is proven pliant sheeple, nice but absolutely brainwashed with the officially approved BS. Unsurpisingly senior management have been the absolute worst examples but the required shit is in virtually everything now so I haven’t bothered with most meetings and “conferences” etc. in months. It’s no wonder that the psychos can run wild when these pathetic brownnosing sorts are fully behind and-even actively promoting-them and their sadistic plots.

Thankfully I’m leaving soon and after today’s heated confirmation, I never want anything to do with them ever again. I know I’ve been very fortunate to have had decent work when millions of others have had it much worse, but this hit me really hard and I needed to get this off my chest.

71781 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to DRW, 4, #628 of 1309 🔗

You have my sympathy. We sell software to manage IT infrastructure into both public and private sector. Its always a nightmare with public sector. Never meet the prerequisites, feature requests for things that any normal organisation would just implement as part of a standard process, and an IT infrastructure that is just a sight to behold, often with more software than people. I suppose thats why they need our software so we shouldn’t complain.

71787 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Howie59, 1, #629 of 1309 🔗

I work in IT and I concur. I don’t deal with the public sector at all now (well my boss doesn’t) but have in the past and it was h e l l

71794 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Farinances, 3, #630 of 1309 🔗

Ditto… for a long time I worked for a firm that sold IT services into public and private sector. As soon as I had my feet under the table I point blank refused to work on anything public sector.

Fortunately – though indicative of how many lazy shits we had in the organisation – there were plenty of people who were delighted to work with the public sector, since everything moved at around 10% of the normal pace, and plausible deniability was baked into every single thing they did.

71949 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to AidanR, 2, #631 of 1309 🔗

Thanks for the replies. Felt a bit better after writing that- I don’t regret taking it on last year but it’s now coming across as a break-up- something you once had great hopes for has now exposed itself and you now just despise it.

71807 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DRW, 3, #632 of 1309 🔗

I sympathise with you. I love what I do but I’m starting to despair of some of my colleagues while actively despising a few others. Funny how this insanity has exposed a few people I know as not being really pleasant folks and best avoided.

71814 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #633 of 1309 🔗

It definitely sorts the wheat from the chaff.

71884 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lili, #634 of 1309 🔗

To paraphrase Walter Bagehot: “daylight has seeped into magic”

71959 ▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 4, #635 of 1309 🔗

Isn’t it odd to find that you’ve been living alongside brain-dead morons for years and never realised?

72032 ▶▶ Julian, replying to DRW, #636 of 1309 🔗

I’m in the private sector. Haven’t noticed any great degree of scepticism among colleagues. I try and stay off the subject, for various reasons which I don’t want to go into. It’s tricky – in general I think it best to stay off controversial topics among work colleagues, though this one is so fundamental it is difficult.

71773 Tenchy, 9, #637 of 1309 🔗
71789 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 13, #638 of 1309 🔗

It’s funny where you can draw inspiration from when times are awful. I’ve just been watching a re run of one of my favourite programmes—‘Endeavour’. Superintendent Bright has had to make a decision that put his life in danger and of course he made the honourable choice. Afterwards, when the baddies were vanquished , he said to his dying Wife:

‘A moments courage or a lifetime of regret’.

I’m beginning to realise, and I make no apologies for saying so, that each time we resist, however small it may be, this government’s pitiful efforts to subdue our freedoms and to frighten us further, we are displaying our own personal ‘moments of courage’.

71834 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Harry hopkins, 2, #639 of 1309 🔗

One of my favourites too. Seems simple and cosy but is actually piercingly clever and perceptive (spot the numerous in jokes and literary references! )

71793 Rick, replying to Rick, 46, #640 of 1309 🔗

Hi fellow sceptics hope this post helps. I’ve been waiting for a hospital appointment since the dawn of time (March). Important but not life threatening. Finally local hospital is actually doing some of the stuff it was allegedly ‘saved’ for. Letter arrived with an appointment (by phone). Won’t describe condition but a telephone call would be pretty useless. I made a complaint. Asked to see the clinical risk assessment for their decision, asked for evidence that this was an appropriate treatment pathway and asked for clarification that the specialist had received clinical training in remote diagnosis of this problem. I also pointed out the current infection rate per 100,000 and highlighted the small probability that either the Consultant or I would be infected. I also stated that if I considered that the treatment did not follow good medical practice I would consider a legal opinion.

All done with firm politeness. A few days passed and a phone call with a pleasant administrator who confirmed that my condition did indeed need a face to face meeting and that the Consultant was more than happy to see me. The telephone appointment has now been changed to a proper consultation.

Play them at their own game. Pressure them to justify their clinical decision in writing, do not accept poor treatment.

71801 ▶▶ Wesley, replying to Rick, 1, #641 of 1309 🔗

Good work!

71811 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Rick, 1, #642 of 1309 🔗

Great stuff and well done!

71826 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Rick, #643 of 1309 🔗

Bang on.

71859 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Rick, 1, #644 of 1309 🔗

“Play them at their own game”

You assume a simple ‘them’.

It ain’t like that.

71885 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Rick, 10, #645 of 1309 🔗

Things were and are much better in that regard in Germany, but today, my wife was thrown out of the practice, because she accompanied her frail mother to her appointment.
She wanted to ask questions during that appointment, which her mother is incapable of doing/understanding/repeating the answers.
In fairness, the doctor wasn’t behind it, but government regulations and his fear of another patient denunciating the doctor if he had allowed it, which would have led to him being forced to close his practice.


71906 ▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Jay Berger, 9, #646 of 1309 🔗

Absolutely pathetic, inhumane and dangerous! My mother was allowed to visit my dying grandmother before she passed, but had this been a few months ago I’m quite sure she wouldn’t have. Family friends just became grandparents and told us their DIL is on blood pressure meds since the birth due to “pre-eclampsia” that occurred after she delivered. They were told she might have had it while still pregnant, but since her midwife appointments were by ZOOM nobody ever took her blood pressure. She’s a young, fit woman who easily could have died because she was not being properly monitored during her pregnancy. I’m sure this madness has killed many thousands and I’m also sure we will never get a full accounting.

71930 ▶▶ TJS123, replying to Rick, 12, #647 of 1309 🔗

As Rick H says, there is no “them”, there’s a clear divide between management and front line staff. As a front line clinician, working mainly in an outpatient setting, the whole of our team are frantic that we can’t see patients. We aren’t allowed clinic space. We’re told we need to change our practice. There is a push towards phone and video, with clearly no idea of what a proper clinical assessment means, or the value of face to face assessment and support, especially for those who have learning disability, brain injury, and other neurological conditions. Let alone poor access to technology. Really urgent appointments are delayed and routine follow ups – well, don’t even think about them. And we will be accountable for any mistakes and failures linked to being unable to work with patients in a clinically safe way. Mangers won’t. We are complaining, providing evidence, begging, explaining, but are constantly told “No” as if we’re asking for the moon. It is heartbreaking. I’ve seen some patients in the car park due to the urgency of their needs, and will no doubt be told off for it. Please don’t lump “the NHS” as one – the vast majority of us are devastated and heartbroken at the dismantling of the services we’ve built up over the years. Harm to patients will continue to escalate unless this is reversed.

71982 ▶▶▶ Northernshock, replying to TJS123, #648 of 1309 🔗

The only way this is going to stop is if enough NHS workers band together and expose the lies they and us are being fed from the top. The NHS rebels can win this but only if they get together and start telling it like it is.

72082 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to TJS123, 1, #649 of 1309 🔗

In the original post using the word them does not mean all NHS staff are bad. Them in the context of my short post, refers to the system and those implementing that system. It matters not that the Dr or Nurse is just following orders. The system is broken and it needs challenging. If clinicians are unhappy the more the patients fight back, the better the chance for change. In my case it was not the clinician who decided on a face to face it was me forcing the issue and it was clearly possible. My job brings me into contact (clients) with a large number of NHS staff and I’ve met very few indeed who express anything other than the view that they are doing a fabulous job and we need to prepare for a second wave.

71805 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 1, #650 of 1309 🔗

What are we going to do about this?

71809 ▶▶ Lili, replying to p02099003, 11, #651 of 1309 🔗

We have to come together properly as a group with critical mass, for a start.

71829 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to p02099003, 19, #652 of 1309 🔗

I think we need a proper campaign, with a campaign team, lawyers, PRs, campaigners, writers, we need money, so we need fundraisers, and a figurehead (national treasure, politically neutral) and then we need civil disobedience, of a very British kind, like we all don’t pay our council tax or something. But it needs to go big now.

71839 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to BecJT, 5, #653 of 1309 🔗

Figurehead – Sumption, or maybe Hitchens?

71843 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to BecJT, 8, #654 of 1309 🔗

I agree and Simon Dolan “keepbritainfree” and Ana Brees (ex bbc journalist) both have platforms.

All the stuff I am reading in different places like here and on the aforementioned platforms indicates there are alot of people that feel the way we do, we are just so fragmented…not sure I have a solution but something we could discuss.

71847 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Azoumi, 5, #655 of 1309 🔗

Agree, I think Dolan is too abrasive for some tastes to front it, we need someone more neutral to be the spokesperson, otherwise ‘right wing libertarian’ just gets chucked around. Sumption would be fab, or some other cuddly boffin. I’m just thinking trust ratings, they need to be trusted, people are very scared.

71929 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to BecJT, 1, #656 of 1309 🔗

I think Dolan is fine, but there is a bit of a problem with him not being a UK resident, in that critics will always jump on that and make a big thing about it and exploit it to distract from the message he is trying to get across.
Sumption would be good, in that he is well able to discuss the legal and rights issues and no one can accuse him of not being qualified to do so.

He is also very articulate and quick-thinking, so can outwit any journalist.

I have zero idea of the cost, but I like the idea of one of those big TV screens that one can drive around to different towns, set up and play short videos on repeat – people do stop and watch them. Not sure of the rules surrounding these though…

72145 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rob Tyson, replying to BecJT, #657 of 1309 🔗

too abrasive, based abroad… guys, with the best will in the world, at this time beggars can’t be choosers, can they? I don’t agree with everything Simon says but you have to put that to one side because right now he has the best platform and, God love him, he is actually DOING things rather than just talking about it. Seriously, please get over there to keepbritainfree.com, we need to do something real about this and we need YOU.

71896 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Azoumi, 2, #658 of 1309 🔗

Keep Britain Free hopefully are going to organise public gatherings for like minded people, outside of London.

71844 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to BecJT, 1, #659 of 1309 🔗


71858 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to BecJT, 5, #660 of 1309 🔗

Agreed. What about Toby? Smart as they come, hard working and totally dedicated to the cause. Come on Toby, I will join whatever party or serious campaign group you form. I will donate as well, and join. I am hoping that this brilliant website is just the beginning…

71877 ▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to BecJT, 6, #661 of 1309 🔗

I want that Dr John Lee from the recent Spiked podcast that was recommended on here. He was ace

71994 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, #662 of 1309 🔗

The thing to think is ‘would I buy a used car from this person?’ – the public are fickle, and you need someone that appeals to people right across the spectrum, they need to trust them. I like him a lot, he sounds properly nice and kind and like there’s no ‘side’ to him. I like Sumption also, because despite being posh, he’s got a cheeky boyish face, there is something likeable about him. Sounds really shallow, but PMs don’t get elected because of their hair! We need a ‘broach church’ sort of person, who won’t be dismissd.

72149 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rob Tyson, replying to BecJT, #663 of 1309 🔗

Pls see my comment above Bec, I get it but beggars can’t be choosers right now. Much as I appreciate J Sumption (and I do), the reality is, his ‘intervention’ has amounted to what, 3 interviews in 4 months?

72261 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to BecJT, #664 of 1309 🔗

‘we all don’t pay our council tax or something’ …

Like Margot in The Good Life’.

71806 Mark, replying to Mark, 1, #665 of 1309 🔗

Police departments backing out of DNC security agreements
Hilarious. For older folk, might have echoes of some of the lefty idiocies of the 1970s and 1980s in this country, and the way their lunatic zealotry kept swinging back to knock them onto their backsides.

71854 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, #666 of 1309 🔗

Nothing to do with ‘lefty’ stuff. This is ‘righty’ stuff, like it or not

71868 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 4, #667 of 1309 🔗

Clearly Those darned righty Democrats annoying the Police with their rightiness about not wanting to be protected with teargas, and kowtowing to the thuggish righty BLM mobs and their hard right defund the police campaign.

71815 Will, replying to Will, 13, #668 of 1309 🔗

My daughter’s next round of chemotherapy had to be postponed, only a couple of days but a shag nonetheless as independent childcare for her brother is impossible and my better half is trying to keep a business running and a thousand people employed. Getting to the, one foot in front of the other stage with the latest nonsense from this hopeless government, and I have never voted anything but Tory.

71822 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Will, 7, #669 of 1309 🔗

So sorry Will. Big hug x

71889 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Will, 1, #670 of 1309 🔗

Sad times. Sending you hugs and support.

71895 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Will, #671 of 1309 🔗

Sorry to hear this.

71901 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Will, #672 of 1309 🔗

What a dreadful position for you all to be in. Sending you all my very best.

71824 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 6, #673 of 1309 🔗

Our friends in the north, it’s a pile of legal bollocks, this is a good website to keep an eye on, legal beagles, on our side http://laworfiction.com/2020/07/lockdown-law-in-nw-england-is-a-fiction/

71893 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to BecJT, #674 of 1309 🔗

But won’t there be ‘law’ in a day or so?

72013 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Sam Vimes, #675 of 1309 🔗

No idea, but they seem to be on the case fairly swiftly with any changes or amendments.

72137 ▶▶▶ Rob Tyson, replying to Sam Vimes, #676 of 1309 🔗

Perhaps, but I wouldn’t bank on it – they are blagging a huge amount and (rightly) believing that no-one will call them on it… that is a great website, recommend reading thoroughly, because it makes this very clear.

71850 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 8, #677 of 1309 🔗

I’ve calculated the number of COVID-19 for the top 10 places in the UK with highest two-week rate that is causing the lockdown to be re-inforced:

Blackburn with Darwen 328
Leicester 352
Oadby and Wigston 49
Bradford 449
Wrexham 113
Rochdale 174
Oldham 176
Hyndburn 57
Eden 34
Pendle 54

This gives a total of 1,786 infections from a population of 1,893,000 , which is 0.0944% or 94.4 per 100,000

Although, the number of infections doesn’t specify whether one infection equals one person, or whether the same person has tested positive multiple times and each positive test was counted as one infection.

71865 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JohnB, 8, #678 of 1309 🔗

Now – here’s the real kicker: there is no evidence that tested ‘cases’ = ‘infections’

71938 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to RickH, 1, #679 of 1309 🔗

Or that positives are remotely reliable either… In summary, a colossal fuck up 😱

71968 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark II, #680 of 1309 🔗

Plus the 5% false positive rate which would bring it down to less than 1,700

71860 Nic, replying to Nic, 13, #681 of 1309 🔗

Millions of people worldwide are being damaged both physically and mentally by these lockdowns and they will take more freedoms away if we let them

71864 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Nic, 3, #682 of 1309 🔗

And they seem to want it that way.
As such, they and mankind don’t deserve to live free anymore.

71866 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Nic, 8, #683 of 1309 🔗

Still don’t get this argument. What does any government get to gain for causing this much pain? They will be unelectable for a generation.

71871 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to hotrod, 5, #684 of 1309 🔗

That’s indeed true and the big question.
I commented on it a few times already.

71872 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to hotrod, 6, #685 of 1309 🔗

Not when the opposition think their draconian measures don’t go far enough…

71878 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Will, -6, #686 of 1309 🔗

So if that is the case then don’t we all need to take a step back and question whether it is we who are wrong?

Has any doubter done that and considered whether the danger is so great than our views are irresponsible?

Boris is a fool but not every Tory is a fool and nor is Starmer.

What would Thatcher have done?

71892 ▶▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to hotrod, 9, #687 of 1309 🔗

Thatcher would have properly challenged the scientists and medics in a ruthless manner.

71953 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to nottingham69, #688 of 1309 🔗

Didn’t she sign up to the AGW climate change thesis? Think she was one of the first.

71925 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hotrod, 2, #689 of 1309 🔗

Has any doubter done that and considered whether the danger is so great than our views are irresponsible?

What danger? Do you mean from an attenuating virus that has obviously run its course?

71931 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to hotrod, 8, #690 of 1309 🔗

Yes of course and you should keep an open mind. But you need to look at the actual evidence and never assume that “scientists” and governments and “everyone” can’t be wrong.

There is still some uncertainty. I cannot say with 100% confidence there will not be a second wave in the UK (beyond a change of equilibrium in the winter). But I think it is extremely unlikely.

If I believed in all the alarmism though I would be _even more_ furious with the government for their mishandling of the situation.

If we were very low prevalence like NZ or S. Korea, track and trace would be a rational strategy. If we were at an intermediate level the strategy should be protect the vulnerable and advise sustainable measures like hand washing and staying at home when ill. This would give you the most bang for your buck and cause almost no collateral damage.

What we actually have is a parody, a muddled pastiche of strategies that would be hopelessly ineffective for _any_ level of existing immunity or fatality rate but are extremely harmful to health, physical and mental, the economy, and people’s lives. And we’re all supposed to play along with this charade just to make the government look good. It’s time the Guardian and the BBC and everyone else “lefty” woke up to this and stopped playing to the government’s tune.

71934 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to hotrod, 5, #691 of 1309 🔗

Haha come on hotrod, we’ve all reached this point by questioning it, researching and seeing it is insane. The facts – infections, deaths, at risk characteristics etc are all there to see, we are not wrong, they have gone insane and are causing untold damage for no good reason.

72021 ▶▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to hotrod, 3, #692 of 1309 🔗

I don’t know much about Starmer and don’t have exhaustive knowledge of every Tory. But I don’t base my views of the danger we face on the extent to which I like or trust politicians, or whether they seem like fools or not. Anyway, Starmer doesn’t need to be a fool to go along with the nonsense, just a coward or an opportunist. Ditto the Tories.

I base my views on looking at the evidence, especially evidence of how many people have died, globally, so far this year, from this virus. Not many enough to merit the response from many governments and countries and organisations.

I may be wrong, but if someone is proposing unprecedented, open-ended measures that are 100% certain to impact life, health, wealth and happiness of billions worldwide, the burden of proof is on them, not on me. So far, case not proven.

I don’t know what Thatcher would have done, but I know why me eyes tell me.

71880 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Will, 4, #693 of 1309 🔗

Good time to be in opposition then, the Tories are finished before they even started.
Every cloud.

71899 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Will, 4, #694 of 1309 🔗

Yup. I feel politically homeless, though that’s nothing new for me. Our so-called conservatives are the first to extend their emergency powers indefinitely and foist new humiliations on us daily.

71967 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 2, #695 of 1309 🔗

Likewise. Not a single MP ready to stand up to the lockdown propaganda, defend Free Speech, expose BLM as Far Left fascists, defy the mask madness or promote resilience.

71976 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 1, #696 of 1309 🔗

Spinless b*stards, and that NHS lot too!

72018 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, 1, #697 of 1309 🔗

I had high hopes of Steve Baker, but he’s been a total letdown..

71965 ▶▶▶ Toby Pierides, replying to hotrod, #698 of 1309 🔗

Perhaps enough money has been deposited in their Cayman Islands accounts to compensate for any political careers that have been destroyed? Short term pain for maximum gain for the 0.0001%? What actually happened during the Black Death of 1348 (I believe there is a BBC article on it)…

72016 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Toby Pierides, 1, #699 of 1309 🔗

They’re probably all planning to move to the Cayman islands in due course, because they will soon be at risk of being lynched by someone – if that point hasn’t been reached yet..

71863 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 2, #700 of 1309 🔗

So James Gallagher hope you enjoy rubbing you hands together with glee as the nations children are prevented from having a future. Rather than revel in this pain how about doing some real work and finding some answers. This article is disgraceful.


71879 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to hotrod, 4, #701 of 1309 🔗

Disgraceful, yes, but also typical of the tripe being vomited up the MSM on a daily basis.

71921 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #702 of 1309 🔗

But Whitty said it in order for it to be reported.

71912 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 6, #703 of 1309 🔗

‘Prof Chris Whitty, the UK’s chief medical adviser, said: “I think what we’re seeing from the data from ONS, and other data, is that we have probably reached near the limit or the limits of what we can do in terms of opening up society.
“So what that means potentially is that if we wish to do more things in the future, we may have to do less of some other things.” ‘

Does he mean by this that society will NEVER re-open?????

71928 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Carrie, 13, #704 of 1309 🔗

I think he does indeed, and if the gov had anything about them they would have sacked him the moment he voiced those opinions to them, as he’s clearly lost his fucking mind. Other countries have opened up schools, pubs, significantly bigger gatherings etc etc but according to whitty UK is a special case that just can’t cope with such freedoms. Gigantic twat he is

71939 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Carrie, 5, #705 of 1309 🔗

Boris has a majority of 80 and a complicit opposition. Our only hope of legally getting rid of him is via the Tory backbenchers. Red Wall stand up.

71948 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 4, #706 of 1309 🔗

He’s got it totally back to front.
No more can be achieved by licking up.
Nothing ever has been achieved by locking up.
He can’t see it because he us a f…..g imbecile.

72057 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to hotrod, #707 of 1309 🔗

The btl comments on that article are encouragingly, and occasionally vitriolically, negative.

71869 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #708 of 1309 🔗

I think this passage from the Starkey/Cherry article basically nails it and explains almost everything:

“It’s as if we’ve returned to the Middle Ages, and Starkey and Cherry are the influential public heretics that had to be silenced by an intolerant but powerful religious

71881 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Jay Berger, 5, #709 of 1309 🔗

We can start to consider ourselves possibly moving towards being a reasonably free and tolerant society again, when someone like Starkey can refuse to apologise for words like those, and suffer nothing but the disapproval of those who don’t like what he said.

Calling for him to be sanctioned for those words is utterly contemptible, far more so than the words and any opinions plausibly implied by them, themselves.

71924 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Mark, #710 of 1309 🔗

The apologies of these people also have to stop.
What were those 2 afraid of?
They are both old and loaded.

71958 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jay Berger, #711 of 1309 🔗

Yep. It’s hard to understand sometimes why these people apologise. Possibly just in the hope of eventually getting some of their perks back. Or perhaps because they are persuaded that they should take the manipulative “offense” claimed (usually on behalf of supposed others) seriously and apologise for that. Would be nice to think Starkey at least isn’t that stupid, but there we are – he did apologise. I suppose he would claim he genuinely didn’t intend to offend anyone and was only apologising to those who might have been genuinely offended. But the correct response to such people would be to (metaphorically) give them a slap and tell them to grow up.

Ideally claiming to be “offended” would in itself be universally regarded with contempt, as suited to a playground, not adult interaction.

71883 Laura Suckling, replying to Laura Suckling, 25, #713 of 1309 🔗

I keep saying this, to friends and colleagues: more testing = more positives (but could be asymptomatic).

Positive result does not mean near death, in hospital or even ill. In fact, it could be a good thing meaning herd immunity increased.

Do you remember the daily death count at the beginning of all this ?, we had the daily death count every flipping where. Now, it is the daily positive count (a very different thing).

Why now with the facemasks when we’ve been shopping throughout the 4 months? and the virus is now on the wane? Keeping the fear alive?

You can call me a conspiracy nut all you like – I smell an agenda.

71908 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Laura Suckling, 11, #714 of 1309 🔗

WHY on earth are people going and getting tested? I read that they are doing random testing – is this at people’s houses? If so why are people agreeing to this – surely you cannot be forced?

Are people so stupid as to not realise that it is the tests that are driving the lockdowns?
If we can stop people getting tested then there is no way new lockdowns can be justified, and it will go some way to stop the government’s agenda – as well as stopping them gathering peoples’ DNA…

71915 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 4, #715 of 1309 🔗

They have been instructed to voluntarily get tested if they have “symptoms”. God know why they comply, especially as the symptoms are completely all-encompassing.

71941 ▶▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #716 of 1309 🔗

They are taking advantage of most people’s implicit trust in the government/NHS to take care of their health/safety…to even question this belief is a huge step that many are not willing to take because of the implications it would have for the rest of their worldview

71933 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Carrie, 1, #717 of 1309 🔗

I would love to know the answer to this.

71947 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Carrie, 2, #718 of 1309 🔗

Apparently care home workers are required by their employers to get tested. Could well account for 30% of tests. People trying to get hospital care likely account for another 30%

72219 ▶▶▶▶ Mrs issedoff, replying to OKUK, #719 of 1309 🔗

Yes, that is true. They also try get the partners to have a test , I have not because it is all the biggest load of bull to even happen and I am so angry that I fear for my mental health.

72065 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Carrie, #720 of 1309 🔗

If they test +ve, maybe they think they don’t need the vaccination.

71914 ▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Laura Suckling, #721 of 1309 🔗
71918 ▶▶ John, replying to Laura Suckling, #722 of 1309 🔗

The agenda is to prove that there is second wave, but the only way to do that is ramp up the testing and not disclose the number of tests. The other agenda is to show that our dear leader has not made the worst decision by any prime minister in the last 350 years and all based on fiction.

71888 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 7, #723 of 1309 🔗

The way this government of imbeciles is behaving they would be as well to hand out the cyanide pills now.

71932 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Hammer Onats, #724 of 1309 🔗

No better in the US, trust me.

71944 ▶▶ annie, replying to Hammer Onats, #725 of 1309 🔗

Take them, you mean, and quick.

71891 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 26, #726 of 1309 🔗

This just posted on The Telegraph, detailing the background to the announcement last night and today’s further tightening. It is pretty shocking – decision was made on a swing of 14 positive tests, and ONS cannot even be certain whether they were in the North West. Graham Brady called it ‘unfortunate’ and Tory Red Wall MPs on a Zoom call were apparently ‘apoplectic’:


Comment section has a lot more swearing than on here!

Boris and Hancock have gone too far this time.

71905 ▶▶ John, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #727 of 1309 🔗

There is a theory that it’s all an experiment to see how far they can go in removing our freedom before we rebel.

71907 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #728 of 1309 🔗

Mail Online comments seem much more sceptical than a few days ago. Tide has turned.

71909 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, 29, #729 of 1309 🔗

I like this one:

99% of people are either immune or have mild symptoms. Of the 1% showing severe symptoms the vast majority are elderly and dying anyway. There have been a few exceptional cases like a morbidly obese alcoholic who refused to rest became quite ill then decided to lock us all up.

71916 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #730 of 1309 🔗

Made me chuckle

71919 ▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #731 of 1309 🔗

Hahaha played a blinder there, didnt see the punchline coming, love it !

71923 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #732 of 1309 🔗

That was a Kill Boris final sentence.

71927 ▶▶▶▶ John, replying to Cheezilla, #733 of 1309 🔗

Does he drink more than his doctor?

71954 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #734 of 1309 🔗

The actions of these bounders are exceptionally criminal.

71978 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #735 of 1309 🔗

Just how far can they go?

71904 Gwen Shannon, #736 of 1309 🔗

Is it actually law yet ? Sorry we have to take a stand ,14 dubious + tests from a machine that can’t tell live from dead virus if beyond the pale. It also smacks of cultural intolerance night before Eid. We thought we had a clear target protect the NHS for 3 weeks not months and months. I wonder if the gov want us to do a Romania and ignore them so they can absolve themselves of all responsibility thought this from day 1.

71917 OKUK, 9, #737 of 1309 🔗

I’m noticing a difference between big supermarkets where more than 95% are masked and smaller stores outside shopping centres where the number of masked is usually less than 50% and often below 20%.

71920 swedenborg, 8, #738 of 1309 🔗

These are the global costs for lockdowns.Staggering cost.1500.000.000 children have lost access to school 13.000.000  more child marriages over the next decade66.000.000 children could fall into extreme poverty and much more. 21 facts on the slide. All referenced in the thread Lockdown the biggest crime ever. And the left opposition is accepting and is a cheerleader of the lockdown?

71935 ScooBieDee, replying to ScooBieDee, 16, #739 of 1309 🔗

So this is as good as it gets. To open schools we have to close the pubs! Whatever happened to flattening the curve and protecting the NHS (which we’ve done – probably). As somebody elsewhere has said, “The safer we become, the more intolerable any remaining risk appears”.


71956 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to ScooBieDee, 19, #740 of 1309 🔗

Yes. Most people were on board with the flattening the curve (to not overwhelm the NHS), for 3 weeks. Now! flipping now, over 4 months later WTF!

We all have to die sometime and if you make it to 80 or over, great. I want to live a normal life, not half a life and if I die next year or tomorrow, so be it.

I fear for people’s mental health, especially the elderly and the kids. I have long been concerned by the over protective nature of society towards the young, it’s really not healthy.

72003 ▶▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Laura Suckling, 5, #741 of 1309 🔗

To quote Chris Whitty back in March…and even though March was a long time ago, these facts have NOT changed…

“Fortunately – and this is one silver lining if you wish, in this particular infection – it looks as if children are infected much less than adults, based on the early data we have at the moment.”

“Our view is not that they don’t get infected – we think they probably do – but they seem to have a much milder disease in general. So the second possible reason to close schools does not appear to be there.”

72009 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #742 of 1309 🔗

Ah but we’ve to protect the teachers now!

72010 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Laura Suckling, 3, #743 of 1309 🔗

It’s the continuation of the constant mollycoddling of our young and the idea of “if its saves one life its worth it”

Both are abominations and if our society is to survive they should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Otherwise we will end up a Fall of the Roman Empire scenario and the Dark Ages.

72051 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Laura Suckling, 5, #744 of 1309 🔗

But Laura some people want to live forever, even if that means never leaving their house. But some want to live forever and leave their house which means everyone else must sacrifice to accomodate.

72327 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #745 of 1309 🔗

That’s exactly right. ‘I want to live forever and you have to suffer to try and accommodate my unreasonable demands’.

71986 ▶▶ Ian, replying to ScooBieDee, #746 of 1309 🔗

Does anybody recall at the start of this that the govt used to show a chart (I don’t remember if it was cases or deaths) that had a ‘target’ line that was shaded? It gave the impression that once we reached the ‘target’ things would get easier? Can anybody recall or even remember what the ‘target’ was?

71998 ▶▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Ian, 1, #747 of 1309 🔗

This is the one I remember – may not be the one you’re thinking about…

comment image

72000 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #748 of 1309 🔗

And, the no action red line actually looks a lot more like the actual line. No country seems to have had a line anything like the green line.

72061 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to DressageRider, 6, #749 of 1309 🔗

Looks like it, doesn’t it?

Here’s one thing I don’t understand (there are quite a lot, and not just on this subject), if the purpose was to protect the NHS from getting overwhelmed and therefore being incapable of providing a service to people who need it, what is the difference between that and shutting down the NHS so that it no longer provides a service to those people who need it?

72001 ▶▶▶▶ Ian, replying to ScooBieDee, #750 of 1309 🔗

Thanks, but it isn’t the one I was thinking of..

72002 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ScooBieDee, #751 of 1309 🔗

Is this the ‘squash the sombrero’ image? What a long time ago that seems…

72007 ▶▶ Nic, replying to ScooBieDee, 1, #752 of 1309 🔗

I cant see schools opening now quite looking forward to the coming battle between government and teachers,
The government are weak and will.give in to any demands teachers make even muzzling of pupils if I had a child no way I’d send him to that environment

72064 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Nic, #753 of 1309 🔗

Should be fun. I’m getting my popcorn at the ready. I may even start looking at my facebook updates again.

72129 ▶▶▶▶ Rob Tyson, replying to Cicatriz, 2, #754 of 1309 🔗

hmmm, it’s fun unless you have two young kids at school, in which case it is terrifying

72198 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Rob Tyson, 1, #755 of 1309 🔗

I see your point. I , however, am resigned to this being the end of liberal democracy in the UK. I don’t know if we’re seeing a takeover by global interests, corporate power or if it’s just a simple economic collapse followed by violence and anarchy caused by hysteria and utter incomptence.

I’m a pessimist, a bit of a nihilist, and at least occasionally wrong 🙂

71936 MDH, replying to MDH, 16, #756 of 1309 🔗

The OH has booked tickets for the National Gallery to see the Titian exhibition. Unfortunately, they’re for August 8. So we won’t be going. Another avenue of escape closed. Hancock is beneath contempt. He deserves nothing but hatred, ridicule and contempt.

71995 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to MDH, 1, #757 of 1309 🔗

Managed to book one before this shit storm but will boycott their shop and buy the catalogue online.

Not sure what I’ll do with Artemesia – hopefully something will turn out in our favour. Otherwise its boycott or resistance.


71942 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #758 of 1309 🔗

My council’s weekly newsletter arrived tonight.
Kirklees is one of the local lockdown victims.

Q: What happens if I don’t follow the rules?
A: This could put your health and the health of others at risk. This could also result in an increase in rates in Kirklees and could risk putting us in a local lockdown.
The government has said it will give local authorities and police forces the powers to enforce these restrictions and more details on these will be set out when the regulations are published.
Q: When do the restrictions come into force?
A: These restrictions are in force now.

Message from the leader of the council:

Councillor Pandor said: “There are many questions to be answered by Government about their announcement last night. The timing of it, the confusion it has caused and the logic behind it all remain unclear.
“I am seeking answers to those questions as a matter of the utmost urgency but my message to residents right now is to please follow this guidance, as I know you will.
“However, I cannot pretend to ignore the feelings thousands of residents in Kirklees will have towards this decision. From the families with children who were looking forward to sharing time in Eid with their loved ones, to those who were looking forward to getting together over a warm weekend with friends and family.
“The timing of this was insensitive, but I also cannot see a clear rationale for this decision now, as our infection rate figures have been coming down over the last few weeks. It feels as though Kirklees has been singled without any reasonable or solid evidence base and many have told me we are being treated totally unfairly.

71950 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #759 of 1309 🔗

Send it back to the chief executive with two choice words added … you know what they are.

71964 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #760 of 1309 🔗

It’s a joke, there’s just 200 positive infections in 450,00 people, yet they have put the whole place into extended lockdown.

71962 AngloWelshDragon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 5, #761 of 1309 🔗


Earlier this week Birds sent a 94yo woman away without bread because she didn’t have a debit card and now this. A shame if this were to be their Ratners moment as their caramel donuts are wonderful but I won’t be shopping there anytime soon.

71971 ▶▶ Mark, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 8, #762 of 1309 🔗

Bosses at the bakery business said it was ‘with regret’ they had to dismiss Megan because of her actions.
Lesley Bird, chief operating officer at Birds Bakery, said: ‘At Birds, we take the safety of our staff and customers very seriously – and have very tight procedures in place during this pandemic. A lot of our customer base are the elderly – many of them vulnerable – and it is our responsibility to keep them, and our staff, safe .”

Not sure if it’s the idiocy or the sanctimony that’s more obnoxious. Regardless, these people are scum.

71981 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Mark, 2, #763 of 1309 🔗

I wish someone would explain to me how what she did endangered anyone. But then there’s a lot of weird shit going on I wish someone could explain to me!

71983 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mark, 9, #764 of 1309 🔗

The other day, I posted their phone number, in case anyone wanted to phone them and comment, that’s all. Somebody posted that “we don’t want to encourage vigilanteeism (sic)”. Well, for the sake of clarity, firebomb the fuckers. Ooh, I see Winston beat me to it while I was typing.

72028 ▶▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Sam Vimes, #765 of 1309 🔗

sorry 🙂

72112 ▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Sam Vimes, #766 of 1309 🔗

Yeah that was me. I also said if you start encouraging abusing individuals or small businesses based on random tabloid stories you’re no better than the Twitter cancelling hate mobs. In fact you’re just another anonymous internet tough guy. This site can only retain it’s credibility with reasoned argument and evidence based conclusions not diatribes on news stories printed in the daily rag. That’s if you want genuine change and not just another echo chamber for like minded people to vent their spleen.

72171 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Achilles, #767 of 1309 🔗

That’s if you want genuine change and not just another echo chamber for like minded people to vent their spleen .”

Both are useful…

72199 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Achilles, replying to Mark, #768 of 1309 🔗

True, and I love a good moan and rant as the next guy but you know which one people will use to discredit this site don’t you?

72214 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Achilles, #769 of 1309 🔗

True enough.

72015 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Mark, #770 of 1309 🔗

They didn’t need to sack her, the stupid bastards! A good telling off would have been sufficient.

72045 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Tenchy, 3, #771 of 1309 🔗

Yes, the gratuitousness of the “making an example” cruelty, presumably in order to protect their worthless corporate backsides from some hypothetical backlash from panickers, is what makes it especially loathsome.

71977 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #772 of 1309 🔗

Burn it down!

72038 ▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #773 of 1309 🔗

It’s the only language they understand.

71984 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #774 of 1309 🔗

Clearly in this case being “safe” has led Birds being very sorry – as well they should be.

71990 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #775 of 1309 🔗

Notes and coins are not clean. What the fuck has this country turned into, a fucking cess pit

71999 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #776 of 1309 🔗

Another one on the boycott list.

72035 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 2, #777 of 1309 🔗

I saw this coming… the cashless society is on its way, where nothing is done off the books and those without bank accounts are completely cut out of society.

And this at a time when unsubstantiated hearsay and guilt by association can see you put on a blacklist that prevents you using any services from Visa or Mastercard, thus de facto rendering you unbankable.

Rishi’s next budget will have foundation measures in it for a move towards abolishing cash. Will anyone bet against me?

72047 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to AidanR, 1, #778 of 1309 🔗

That’s something that has bothered me for a while. Say the wrong thing on social media and you’re persona non grata.

Cashless Society + Universal Basic Income + Social Credit

5 years top before all that is in play?

72078 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cicatriz, #779 of 1309 🔗

Sounds a lot like that hoary old cliche, the boot stamping on the human face, forever, to me.

72109 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #780 of 1309 🔗

Yeah, I think a 5 year timescale is about right. But he’ll put the enabling legislation in the next budget, so they can press ahead the next time an opportunity presents itself.

72243 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #781 of 1309 🔗

TBH even before COVID-19 we were looking at all those thing happening in the next 10 years, as there will be a massive reduction in the workforce due to automation by 2030.

72049 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to AidanR, 2, #782 of 1309 🔗

That’s a bet I’m going nowhere near!

The prospect of a cashless system in our current grossly intolerant society ought to be something people should really fear. The building blocks for a really nasty cultural revolution and techno-tyranny are in sight.

Old tyrannies collapsed because the manpower needed to watch over everyone meant they soon ran out of people to do it properly. That isn’t a problem today.

72127 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, #783 of 1309 🔗

Sounds just like Mr Icke, 20 – 25 years ago. 🙂

72131 ▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to JohnB, #784 of 1309 🔗

oooh… those bloody lizards…

72040 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #785 of 1309 🔗

Absolutely disgusting. What a bunch of morons. 44 years service and she is treated like this. I’ve never heard of such nonsense.

71972 A Meshiea, replying to A Meshiea, 6, #786 of 1309 🔗

I haven’t posted for a while as I forgot my password and was too lazy and irritated to generate a new one.

Does anyone know of any protests against lockdown policy and or the slow creep of creepy mandatory muzzles?

Or does anyone know where we can start meeting to organise and support each other in these trying times of being 1 in 10s when the 9s seem to all live at Number 9?

perhaps someone knows of a drive to start a new political party to replace the Conservatives who have lost all conservatism or the Lib Dem’s who are neither Liberal nor democratic or the Labour Party that doesn’t represent the working classes? Not a single party who stands up for Liberty and rational leadership?

71996 ▶▶ Mark, replying to A Meshiea, 2, #787 of 1309 🔗

There seem to be signs of nascent opposition activism organisation in the Keep Britain Free forums. Probably a good place to start;


71997 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A Meshiea, 1, #788 of 1309 🔗

Protests and meetups here:

The KBF forum has a section where you can contact people in your area.

72004 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to A Meshiea, 5, #789 of 1309 🔗

We can’t gather publicly and openly… it has been made all but impossible.

Guerilla actions are the way forward. Intransigent civil disobedience. Polite but immovably firm.

And we have to turn the enemy’s weapons against them.

Practically no organisation has seriously considered how their COVID policies will play out in the context of the Equality Act. Which is to say their effect on anyone who is disabled in any way. That definition under that act is broader than you might think. Everyone with hearing difficulties has a case under this act any time companies or officialdom address them from behind a mask. That’s north of 10 million people in the UK. Add in all those with mental or physical issues that make wearing a mask impossible, and the numbers really stack up.

When I took this up with the big cheeses at KwikFit, they changed all their signage and re-educated their staff in all 800 branches inside a week. They twigged the implications of their hitherto bovine and absolute enforcement of the mask edict.

The only way I can see us winning this war is if we can all make something change this way, every week.

72024 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to AidanR, 3, #790 of 1309 🔗

Thanks AR. And well done with kwikfit that’s quite a victory. I think that is a great strategy.
However I don’t think it’s the only one we should pursue as it only works within these ludicrous and arbitrary rules. Right now, we can gather publicly and openly because of BLM. Or at least to try and stop us the way they did before would draw attention to the cause.
if we get to the point, like Madeira, where we get Mandated to muzzle from the moment we set outside, I’m going to end up in jail. I’d like to avoid that, maybe it’s still possible to show there is enough resistance to prevent that new dystopian trial balloon.

72030 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to A Meshiea, #791 of 1309 🔗

Do you understand that the police are instructed, tacitly or explicitly, that they only need 80% compliance to make the measures work, and that means they only need to make white people comply?

That said, I take your point. We should not dismiss other approaches, but the one I suggest is the only one so far that I’ve found to be at all effective.

72041 ▶▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to AidanR, #792 of 1309 🔗

No I’m not. I’ve never seen nor heard that before.
im not really sure what your point is vis a vis protesting.
there are other forms of protest too.
one get small groups locally to defy together certain rules and face down the potential stassi reaction in shops for instance….you know forms of non violent disobedience. Forming groups in close quarters greater than whatever number is stipulated, that type of thing.
the point is to generate a visible presence in order to wake up those who are quietly but uncomfortably putting up with this for fear of feeling alone.

72025 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to AidanR, #793 of 1309 🔗

Get the football firms on your side, they love a row and they are organised.

72105 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Winston Smith, #794 of 1309 🔗

That is not the worst idea I’ve heard today. Not by a long way.

72185 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to AidanR, #795 of 1309 🔗

That’s the sole point of social distancing….

72125 ▶▶ Rob Tyson, replying to A Meshiea, 1, #796 of 1309 🔗

AYM, I feel exactly as you do, get in touch here: https://www.keepbritainfree.com/forum/

72160 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Rob Tyson, 1, #797 of 1309 🔗

Thanks Rob, I just signed up.
im looking forward to getting involved!

71985 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 2, #798 of 1309 🔗

There’s another aspect and that is the number of children not getting inoculations against measles, mumps, rubella, meningitis and other viruses. There could be a measles epidemic.

72027 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to p02099003, 6, #799 of 1309 🔗

To say nothing of the fact that tens of millions of people are not giving their immune system the normal daily workout, practicing its moves on passing pathogens.

The implications are so far reaching it’s almost incomprehensible, but the effects will last for years.

72087 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to p02099003, 2, #800 of 1309 🔗

Very good point to throw out against the people calling us anti-vaxxers

72295 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to p02099003, #801 of 1309 🔗

And many who have been inoculated but have not received their booster shots! That’s a scandal too.

71992 Nic, replying to Nic, 17, #802 of 1309 🔗

Unless you are really worried dont get tested ,if you do you could end up destroying jobs mental health and education I would say it is our civic duty not to be tested,

72011 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Nic, #803 of 1309 🔗

Exactly. This should be some sort of hashtag or whatever.

72034 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Nic, 8, #804 of 1309 🔗

Agreed. If I get symptoms of a cold I will assume it is a cold and behave just as I normally would: take paracetamol and Vitamin C and tell the oldies in the family to stay away.

72341 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #805 of 1309 🔗

Just had a cold & sore throat, caught off my 18 month old granddaughter, 3 days of feeling a bit off. But ok now, paracetamol etc thats all. Not going to be part of the system for that. Mind you my wife & I had a humdinger either side of Christmas. Think that was CV19. But I’m not going to tell them.

72048 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Nic, 12, #806 of 1309 🔗

Totally agree with this. If they are going to judge by cases alone rather than by severe cases/deaths which might indicate an actual problem, then getting tested for minor symptoms places others at risks far greater than those posed by COVID-19. If you get a bit of a cough and fever, you, generally, take some paracetamol and deal with it and wait for it to pass. If this happens now and you are tested for COVID-19 and come back positive then, even if you bounce back fine in a few days, you become part of a machine which risks jobs, lives and sanity. Non-mask wearers are shamed for their “selfishness” and failure to “think of others” and told that, even if there is no evidence, “it isn’t much to ask” to don some ridiculous face covering. Frankly, I think that those who troop along for a test without severe issues are far more guilty of exposing others to unnecessary risk and it “isn’t much to ask” to just do what you would normally do and wait it out. My 82 year old dad was a bit under the weather a week or so ago (cough and fever). I am proud to say he didn’t get tested. He is on the mend now. No idea if he had COVID-19 or not but, even if he did, he will never be a “case” to which some idiot can point to and use as “evidence” for increasingly absurd and paranoid restrictions on normality.

72067 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Nic, 8, #807 of 1309 🔗

Yes testing has become weaponized against us

72183 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #808 of 1309 🔗

The tests are medically useless, but very useful for the oppression of the population/world.
See the latest story in off guardian tonight, where Torsten Engelbrecht trashes the ‘fact checkers’ who diffamated his original article on the flaws and uselessness of the PCR test.
These ‘fact checkers’ have absolutely no clue.

72080 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Nic, 1, #809 of 1309 🔗

The only way I’d get PCR tested is if I got sick enough to end up in hospital. I’d have an antibody test if I could get a reliable one privately but no way will I ‘help’ the government have more excuses to roll back lockdown or introduce new ones.

72036 ▶▶ Secret Farmer, replying to profund chap, #811 of 1309 🔗

I read this and almost vomited! Never read such patronising sh*te as this.

72042 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to profund chap, #812 of 1309 🔗

Gosh that was a nauseating read but for the name of the epidemiologist: Slutkin. That should be one of the 300 genders we can now pick from!

72072 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to profund chap, #813 of 1309 🔗

Read this article and you’ll have the correct opinion!
Apparently we all might be linked to a racist death cult for not wearing masks. Yikes!

72076 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to profund chap, #814 of 1309 🔗

A repulsive article if ever there was one. A pity there was no commenting facility.

72020 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 14, #815 of 1309 🔗

According to a quick Google search Viruses have existed for 1.5 billion years and man has been around for circa 200k years.

I’ve no idea if that’s enough time for us to evolve or not but if masks were necessary for survival then I’d have expected humans to have developed a mask like apendage in all this time.

Or maybe nature thought the immune system was enough.

72031 ▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #816 of 1309 🔗

We did. We became elephants. Then came the humanoid second wave, and they invented pianos. Bastards

72062 ▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to James Leary #KBF, 4, #817 of 1309 🔗

This place is such a good laugh while we ponder over this miserable predicament we’re all trapped in. Thanks for making me smile you funny people!

72037 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #818 of 1309 🔗

Don’t tell this to the Covidophobes:-

About eight percent of human genetic material comes from a virus and not from our ancestors, according to researchers in Japan and the U.S.


(use of ~phobes suffix as in phobia not odium as it is too often misued)

72052 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #819 of 1309 🔗

I think evolution would prioritise having a mouth rather than a restricted opening due to the copious amount of oxygen we require for the fitness of the human body. The benefit this gives us in developing a strong body, strong immune system , and cognitive health, far outweighs protecting ourselves from the viruses, bacteria, a fungi that could make us ill.

72066 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to JohnB, 2, #820 of 1309 🔗

Strange isn’t it. No flappy bottom lip that can stretch to cover the entire face or closeable nostrils, not even a hint of such traits.

72085 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, #821 of 1309 🔗

I don’t think it would look very attractive to the opposite sex too when trying to find a mate, that would kill the human race of faster than any virus.

72115 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to JohnB, 1, #822 of 1309 🔗

I can imagine members of a human race that had evolved without breasts might say the same about the idea of saggy balloons of fat balanced on the front of the chest, but personally I’ve always found them pretty fascinating, and I don’t think I’m alone in that, judging from popular culture and conversations with school friends and team-mates over the years.

72208 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to JohnB, 1, #823 of 1309 🔗

Maybe the bigger the flappy lip, the more attractive you would be. Would work for ugly people like me too. Flappy lip covering face, less ugly.

72079 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to Nobody2020, #824 of 1309 🔗

10% of human DNA is derived from viruses. There is more virus in our DNA than what makes males men! Our whole existence is because of viruses. We need them to evolve.

72284 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #825 of 1309 🔗

Humaoids have been around for at least a million years.

72022 nottingham69, 5, #826 of 1309 🔗

Plank of the week, other than Johnson and Whitty, has to be Snooker player and I am ashamed to say fellow Nottingham boy Anthony Hamilton. Pulls out of the world’s due to fear of 150 people watching, then shortly after the spectators get ludicrously banned by our great leader. Almost funny.

72033 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 1, #827 of 1309 🔗

My two degrees plus a professional degree tell me “good business practice,” but the gut says “OK, what are you not telling me?”:-

“This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in … four years the vaccine is showing side effects,” Ruud Dobber, a member of Astra’s senior executive team, told Reuters.

“In the contracts we have in place, we are asking for indemnification. For most countries it is acceptable to take that risk on their shoulders because it is in their national interest,” he said…


72069 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to IMoz, #828 of 1309 🔗

I’ll be interested to see what my fellow Swedes here think of this – lots signed up to the flu vaccine but since the narcolepsy side effects I think they may well be more wary this time… I’m guessing it is likely to be the Astra Zeneca one that will be offered here, with the company being part-Swedish..

72077 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Carrie, #829 of 1309 🔗

How prevalent is BCG in Sweden, do you know?

72283 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, 1, #830 of 1309 🔗

Narcolepsy, eh?
Did they try that one on Boris?

72081 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to IMoz, #831 of 1309 🔗

I thought drugs companies were automatically indemnified by government against damage caused by vaccines, so it’s a no-lose situation for them.
Am i wrong?

72084 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to BTLnewbie, 1, #832 of 1309 🔗

Only if there is no evidence of neglince by the manufacturer; failure to go through the standard process could arguably amount to that, for example, and we don’t know what other shortcuts are taken.

Here’s the long answer (might be out of date by now though): https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/89/5/10-081901/en/

72089 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to BTLnewbie, #833 of 1309 🔗

That could be US only

72097 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to IMoz, 1, #834 of 1309 🔗

Well the obvious point to me seems that they are being asked by the government to shortcut their usual processes that would mean the product going through years of trials and tests and independent verification and so forth.

If you were being asked to bypass all the safeguards you had diligently put in place over 50 years of experience, regulations and legal advice – which is what they are tacitly telling us – wouldn’t you want to be indemnified?

72119 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to AidanR, #835 of 1309 🔗

The point is very well summarised by PEKaiser below: nobody is forcing them to do anything—they’ve not been seconded to act as agents of the State—they’re doing what they’re doing with a view to make a profit; and HMG, as well as other States, have own biochemical research labs.

72128 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to IMoz, #836 of 1309 🔗

Whether they are being forced is neither here nor there.

They could well make a risk & compliance decision not to proceed at all with the product. The government is clearly twisting their arm w.r.t. timescales, and they are quite rightly saying ‘well we don’t recommend this, so on your head be it, not ours’.

72154 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to AidanR, 1, #837 of 1309 🔗

Really, what’s your evidence for the governements twisting their arms? From this end it looks like there’s a crazy race to be first to market—entirely profit driven.

72172 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to IMoz, 1, #838 of 1309 🔗

Well there’s the fact that getting a vaccine to market from a standing start in less that 4 years would be completely unprecedented.

72195 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to AidanR, 1, #839 of 1309 🔗

Because the regulators say they can—but that doesn’t mean they should…

72101 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to IMoz, 1, #840 of 1309 🔗

When this s**tstorm began I immediately reasoned that if a single vaccine could save the world and return us to normal, then surely all the drug companies would bring their best minds together as one mighty team, and then offer the best possible vaccine to every government in the world at cost. No profits and no other motive than to save mankind from covid.

Yeah right!

72043 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #841 of 1309 🔗

Twitter post giving some perspective on the cost of lockdowns (image attached for those who can’t see it on Twitter):


72055 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, #842 of 1309 🔗

Just saw Swedenborg already posted this earlier.

72094 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #843 of 1309 🔗

Yeah, I’m gonna need some sources for those numbers.

If you take anything unsourced at face value, you’re being led into a trap.

72139 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to AidanR, #844 of 1309 🔗

It’s sourced on the linked tweet.

72170 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to BecJT, 1, #845 of 1309 🔗

I can’t see the tweet because Twitter is blocked by my internet connection as malware.

72044 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 3, #846 of 1309 🔗

Any psychologists around, just out of curiosity? Would it be typical for someone in a position of responsibility to experience a near death event and then suffer from tunnel vision in shielding others from that event, generally speaking?

72053 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to IMoz, 2, #847 of 1309 🔗

I’ve heard of that before but dont think that is Johnson’s goal,read an article in Byline Times, that he has a target on his back.

72056 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to IMoz, 1, #848 of 1309 🔗

Not a psychologist, but definitely possible. I think a lot of our problems come from politicians that, despite never having a near death event, are still trying to chaotically shield others from harm, against all reason.

72074 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to IMoz, 4, #849 of 1309 🔗

I don’t know, I have wondered if this is the first time really very privileged people have had their first taste of not being in control and ‘safe’. If you look at the twitterati panic, it’s almost like shit happening has been taken like a narcissistic wound. It’s like we the people are the disease. I think there’s a whopping amount of snobbery in all this, the great unwashed must be corralled, lest they infect the better people. I suspect he has had a near death event, not sure it’s medical but political. They need a second wave now, it’s the only political way out, bad news for us is Labour need it too.

72102 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to IMoz, 1, #850 of 1309 🔗

Don’t need a worthless degree in psychology to know that a great many of the people who have a brush with death and spend time in an ICU come out with debilitating PTSD.


He should be in a mental hospital, not in Westm… oh.. wait a minute.

72179 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, #851 of 1309 🔗

I think the ones with PTSD were on ventilators. Doesn’t apply to De Piffle.

72175 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, #852 of 1309 🔗

Surely anyone who’d experienced a genuine out of body NDE would be less afraid of death?

72050 JimByJovi, #853 of 1309 🔗

I was re-watching the fantastic Red Riding Trilogy the other night. In spite of the contextual connotations, in light of the current scenario, I can’t help but smile at the toast “To the North: Where We Do What We Want.”

72054 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 7, #854 of 1309 🔗

They were announced by Matt Hancock in a Twitter thread at 9.16pm – no, I’m not making that up. He really did announce restrictions affecting millions of people on Twitter less than three hours before they were due to come into force.

Funny how pro-censorship lefties keep claiming that social media has no obligation to free speech by denying that it’s used as an official communication platform by many governments and official public impact organizations…

72070 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 6, #855 of 1309 🔗

It’s simple – they are hypocrites and liars.

Remember how McCarthyism and blacklists used to be a bad thing when they were used on communists, or the way trendy lefty students (that are now editors and managers and MPs) used to declare “I may hate what you say but I must defend to the death your right to say it”, before they realised that they are the establishment now and invented “hate speech” so they could censor and punish dissent?.

72071 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 2, #856 of 1309 🔗

It’s amazing how they support giant corporate monolopies exercising pseudo free market principles when it suits.

72093 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #857 of 1309 🔗

Guido’s site seems to have debunked this claim that Hancock first announced it on Twitter.

72108 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to AidanR, 3, #858 of 1309 🔗

3 hours before it came into force. Folk waking up to discover tgey we breaking the law. None of itis acceptable or reasonable. A press conference didn’t happen because… this moments require leadership not a little prick speaking to camera for two minutes. A total fail. But they are doing fail deliberately.

Did you know the British Government is providing covid communication training to many governmemts around the world right now? See todays ukcolumn for more on that story.

72116 ▶▶▶▶ AidanR, replying to Basics, 9, #859 of 1309 🔗

I don’t disagree with you.

If it were easy to search though old comments on here, you could see that I’m on record saying several months ago that now the legislation is on the books we will sooner or later have a situation where we go to bed free men and wake up under curfew.

It’s beyond fucking outrageous.

72075 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 22, #860 of 1309 🔗

It’s quite clear that the people making the policies are incapable of understanding the data they’re looking at. They’re probably asking slightly more competent incompetent people to interpret the data for them, and they even fail at understanding that interpretation.

England, as cases go from 1 person infected, to 2 infected people over night:
Boris: What do the numbers show?
Advisor: We’ve had a nearly 100% increase in cases. The numbers have almost doubled over night!
Boris: Close the country! Shut everything down! Where’s that brake pedal?

72083 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 1, #861 of 1309 🔗

Reminded me of the great OCP scaremongering with 4th gen (six fold increase!!! from 1–2 in 10k to 6–12 in 10k), attempted to be reined in here: https://sciencenordic.com/denmark-pregnancy-sex/new-contraceptive-pills-double-risk-of-blood-clots/1378911

72120 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 3, #862 of 1309 🔗

I am not a conspiracy theorist, although like Nixon I do believe they are now all engaged in a joint enterprise, scientists to boot, in manufacturing a second wave, they need one, it’s the only politically face saving way out. Brucey bonus is their corporate pharma mates all get to make a shed load of money on a vaccine, and the banks get their crisis.

72167 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BecJT, 1, #863 of 1309 🔗

Joint enterprise in manufacturing a second wave is not a conspiracy?

72090 Basics, replying to Basics, 9, #864 of 1309 🔗

So we’ve had thugs at the border telling cars travelling North to fuck off. Now we have this –

“Scotland England quarantine: Scots returning from Northern England urged to stick to own household

“Nicola Sturgeon has today (Friday 31 July) announced in an emergency coronavirus briefing that those who are currently in North West England should minimise contact with those outwith their household on their return to Scotland for 14 days.”


Notice that English people are not addressed – if English people come to Scotland do they need to quarantine for 14 days before going, say, on holiday?

I don’t know how to write how wrong and disgusting/abhorrent Nicola Sturgeon is. The nasty party truly is that. There must be comment evsntually from the Scots whos tourism livelihood has been decimated by the holyrood ego. Borihancockwittyvallencecumming are bad sturgeon and her cronies are a match, smaller but just as evil.

72092 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to Basics, 5, #865 of 1309 🔗

I’ll give her this: she knows how to get what she wants and she knows how to play a long long game.

But I’d still dance a jig if I saw her mown down by a lorry.

72095 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to AidanR, 2, #866 of 1309 🔗

I would strip the willow with you.

To be crystal clear a match in terms of evil – the absolute disregard for the lives of the nation

72096 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 21, #867 of 1309 🔗

This articulate rant cheered me up, writing letters sounds boring but really does terrify officialdom, particularly if you know what you are talking about:

“Let me be very clear that the government has no right to impose itself on our lives and livelihoods, issuing despotic demands to close down our businesses and track our movements. It is immaterial whether the government believes these measures are “good for our health” because it is not the government’s job to protect our health. I have signed no contractual agreement with the government or their representatives in local councils stating that my health is their responsibility, and neither has any other individual in this country. My health, and the measures I take to either protect or risk it (providing they break no laws), are the business of one individual only – me. The same applies to every other autonomous adult in the country. The government may issue “guidelines” of what it believes are healthy behaviours, but it has no legitimacy whatsoever to impose its beliefs via menace and threats as it is currently attempting to do.”

Bravo, Miri https://miriaf.webs.com/kirkleescouncilcovid19

72099 ▶▶ AidanR, replying to BecJT, 1, #868 of 1309 🔗

The point is irrelevant so long as we have socialised healthcare and a gold-plated welfare state.

These things – which claim 45% of the income tax you pay – make everyone’s health everyone else’s business. That is their fundamental problem.

72111 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to AidanR, 13, #869 of 1309 🔗

I agree, I fundamentally changed my view of the NHS when I got sick, lockdown was the nail in the coffin, alongside five years in Greece, where I had experience (in a poor country, relative to ours) of a health system so much better than ours. Plus no such ridiculous ideas such as ‘gatekeepers’ or your doctors having secret files about you that you have to beg to see, Greeks were astonished that we don’t routinely have copies of our own tests, x rays etc, and thought it was an outrage that a jumped up GP decided whether we saw a specialist or not.

72130 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AidanR, 5, #870 of 1309 🔗

Well we are certainly not getting our money’s worth at the moment!!

72256 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to BecJT, #871 of 1309 🔗

Brilliant. Spot on.

72098 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #872 of 1309 🔗

Just published. This will be used by the fearmongers and teacher’s unionsSARS-CoV-2 Transmission and Infection Among Attendees of an Overnight Camp — Georgia, June 2020“These findings demonstrate that SARS-CoV-2 spread efficiently in a youth-centric overnight setting, resulting in high attack rates among persons in all age groups, despite efforts by camp officials to implement most recommended strategies to prevent transmission. Asymptomatic infection was common and potentially contributed to undetected transmission, as has been previously reported” “This investigation adds to the body of evidence demonstrating that children of all ages are susceptible to SARS-CoV-2 infection ( 1 3 ) and, contrary to early reports ( 5 , 6 ), might play an important role in transmission ( 7 , 8 ). The multiple measures adopted by the camp were not sufficient to prevent an outbreak in the context of substantial community transmission. Relatively large cohorts sleeping in the same cabin and engaging in regular singing and cheering likely contributed to transmission ( 9 ). Use of cloth masks, which has been shown to reduce the risk for infection ( 10 ), was not universal.”
I was really interested in the reference in the article of cloth masks to reduce the risk of infection. It was obviously this.
Hendrix MJ, Walde C, Findley K, Trotman R. Absence of apparent transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from two stylists after exposure at a hair salon with a universal face covering policy—Springfield, Missouri, May 2020. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 2020;69:930–2
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6928e2.htm?s_cid=mm6928e2_w “After public health contact tracings and 2 weeks of follow-up, no COVID-19 symptoms were identified among the 139 exposed clients or their secondary contacts.”But only half of the exposed had PCR test!“limitations. First, whereas the health department monitored all exposed clients for signs and symptoms of COVID-19, and no clients developed symptoms, only a subset was tested; thus, asymptomatic clients could have been missed. Similarly, with a viral incubation period of 2–14 days, any COVID-19 PCR tests obtained from clients too early in their course of infection could return false-negative results.”“Third, viral shedding is at its highest during the 2 to 3 days before symptom onset; any clients who interacted with the stylists before they became symptomatic were not recruited for contact tracing”.“Services at salon A were limited to haircuts, facial hair trimmings, and perms. Most stylists cut hair while clients are facing away from them, which might have also limited transmission.”
There is a strange reference in this article to unpublished study((CT Leffler, Virginia Commonwealth University, unpublished data, 2020).from analysis of 194 countries. And reference to this MacIntyre CR, Chughtai AA. A rapid systematic review of the efficacy of face masks and respirators against coronaviruses and other respiratory transmissible viruses for the community, healthcare workers and sick patients. Int J Nurs Stud 2020;108:103629.which was  “A systematic review on the efficacy of face coverings against respiratory viruses analyzed 19 randomized trials and concluded that use of face masks and respirators appeared to be protective in both health care and community settings”
This contradicts another CDC article from May 2020 “Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”
I think CDC really want facemasks and have been a bit selective in references.Best to stick with the pragmatic Dutch,who had a lockdown “lite”. No evidence for face masks.

72288 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #873 of 1309 🔗

High attack rates??? Indeed we humans are under attack! We need the GI Joe vaccine to combat Cobra Corona

72100 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 12, #874 of 1309 🔗

What a strange world we are living in at the moment where the most hated and despised person of the left and the far left, Boris Johnson, is now basically their new messiah, who they are cheer-leading due to the way he is locking down this country and removing people’s freedoms. All I’m seeing on social media is posts from people complaining about Johnson new lockdown extension and face masks, which are all being defended by the left and far left.

How have they’ve gone from the position that this is a guy who always lies and the nasty party don’t care for the people, to him and the Tory government now being the purveyors of truth and wanted to protect us all?

72113 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to JohnB, 2, #875 of 1309 🔗

Whoooaaaaa. Where on earth do you get that from? Why would “lefties” want more lockdown and draconian rules? Those defending Boris are probably too thick to see beyond the MSM spin, the same MSM spin that won him the election. The rest of us right or left are the ones rebelling.

72124 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hotrod, 6, #876 of 1309 🔗

In defence, the leftie elected representatives all seem to be seriously in favour of the draconian measures. I was shocked and disgusted by Burnham’s complicity.

72316 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Cheezilla, #877 of 1309 🔗

and just listened to that inflatable balloon Emily Thornberry on Any Questions . She was the same. Fully supportive of the measures

72447 ▶▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to mjr, 1, #878 of 1309 🔗

what a massive twat she is

72138 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to hotrod, 5, #879 of 1309 🔗

Well the Labour Party the LibDems, the Guardian, and the BBC all are pretty much lockstep fanatical lockdowners, whose main, persistent criticism of the government throughout has been that it didn’t lock down soon enough or hard enough. That’s pretty much a roll call of the establishment left right there.

72173 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to hotrod, 4, #880 of 1309 🔗

The left loves authoritarianism and cancel culture, certainly if and as long as it is in charge.

72118 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 2, #881 of 1309 🔗

From being about 8 years old, I’ve never been under the illusion that the Tory party wanted to protect us all!

72122 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to JohnB, 3, #882 of 1309 🔗

Remember, they hate him because he’s a fascist.
I used to think they didn’t know what that word meant, now I’m certain of it.

72282 ▶▶ annie, replying to JohnB, 5, #883 of 1309 🔗

It was always the case that extremes of tyranny meet, and are in fact indistinguishable. Terror minister Fouquet ran the same secret police for Napoleon as he did for Robespierre. The Ayatollah inherited the Shah’s torturers. The Russian revolutionaries took over the Tsar’s apparatus of repression. Tyranny is tyranny, it has no left and right. Torture is torture, and terror is terror, and torturers and terrorists do it because they enjoy it and any victim will do, so long as they can’t fight back. The torturers know they at least are safe, because the next government will need them.

72103 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #884 of 1309 🔗

Apologies if this has already been posted. It describes how face nappies don’t work:


72106 ▶▶ nfw, replying to Tenchy, 3, #885 of 1309 🔗

It doesn’t matter if it has already been posted as some of us might miss it in “way down the list” entries, so it’s always helpful to have it again. Many thanks.

72281 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, #886 of 1309 🔗

Includes an interesting comment about hand poison in flu epidemics. The muck doesn’t kill the virus, but it helps because it may reduce the incidence of other diseases and so relieve pressure on medical services. Oh, hooray, protect the NHS.

But our town has a huge vat of the stuff labelled ”don’t pass IT on’, which, knowing what ‘it’ is, is a thumping great lie. And they know it’s a lie, and they say ‘IT’ so they can deny the lie afterwards.

72104 nfw, replying to nfw, 17, #887 of 1309 🔗

“Cases” does not mean “on life support” or “death”. It just means a positive (if that can even be trusted) result. “They” (politicians, public servants, the marxist media, the health industry, Karens, snitches, etc) are only too happy to let the great unwashed conflate “cases” with disaster and not explain what “case” means. It’s obvious the Wuhan Virus Flu is spreading ’til everybody is a “case”. Reality? Just let everybody be infected as in every other plague and get on with it. one everybody is a “case” there is no need for face nappies or house arrest.

72114 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nfw, -13, #888 of 1309 🔗

I wish people wouldn’t call it Wuhan flu. It’s very racist.
There’s plenty of evidence to suggest it originated in the US.

72126 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #889 of 1309 🔗

It’s not remotely “racist”, which is a dishonest smear term anyone should be ashamed to use against anyone but the antiracist smear merchants themselves.

It’s aimed at the Chinese government, not Chinese people per se. You can regard that as a good or a bad thing as you see fit, but the term racist is completely inappropriate here (as it usually is).

72140 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #890 of 1309 🔗

It’s funny how it went completely silent on the Wuhan wet market theory. I haven’t heard wet markets mentioned for months in the main stream media – I assume it is back to business as normal. I guess that means it was man made in a lab (possibly an international effort). I wonder if the Wuhan effort was just theatre to distract us.

72169 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Darryl, 5, #891 of 1309 🔗

Two Nobel Prize winners have come to the conclusion that it’s man-made.
Fauci ran a military virus program in the US, which was shut down and then people and ‘stuff’ were transferred to the lab in Wuhan to continue ‘research’.

72143 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #892 of 1309 🔗

It’s not racist at all—historically a lot of diseases are named after the place where they’re first identified: Ebola, Marburg, Lyme disease. Zika fever… Only around May 2015. WHO jumped on the “PC” bandwagon and revised their policy (perhaps it was a slow year for them?) Now we get utterly meaningless names like COVID-19… I mean what cretin thought of it—“coronaviridae” is a flipping family of viruses, it’s utterly meaningless!

72163 ▶▶▶ Pjb, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #893 of 1309 🔗

This is absolutely pathetic.
Would it be racist to call it “New York Flu” ?

72188 ▶▶▶▶ Curmy, replying to Pjb, #894 of 1309 🔗

Call it the “Frederick” virus, as Frederick, Maryland is the location of Ft. Detrick, home of a division the military, USAMRIID, that researches bioweapons “to be able to defend against them”. Ft. Detrick was the source of the anthrax that was mailed to and killed several people in the wake of the curious events of 9/11/2001.
“Frederick flu” has a nice ring to it.

72189 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #895 of 1309 🔗

Er…. It’s factually correct.

72249 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Farinances, -1, #896 of 1309 🔗

Barcelona had it in sewage samplings in April 2019 iirc.

A couple of other locations have identified it present before Autumn 2019.

72271 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, -1, #897 of 1309 🔗

So what. Still came out of that lab.

72588 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Farinances, 1, #898 of 1309 🔗

So, if it was present in Europe before january 2020 or whatever your narrative it this has many fundamental issues. Just one being were lived alongside it for nearly a year before it killed anybody. Clever lab work to producer a ‘sleeper virus’.

72121 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 15, #899 of 1309 🔗

I am feeling a lot more optimistic than a couple of weeks ago. The tide is turning, the inrush is all sceptical now. Lockdownists no longer have a receptive audience for their symphony of fear. Too many people have too much to lose from the continuing crisis narrative for it to remain in place.

72141 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 12, #900 of 1309 🔗

Guido Fawkes’ website is in Tory meltdown. Johnson is getting slagged off from all directions, with very few in favour. The push too far may well have come.

Note there are almost 800 comments on this page, and over 1500 on yesterday’s. That’s a huge increase based on another new lockdown-lite, extending the mask nonsense, and halting the easing of lockdown restrictions.

72178 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Nick Rose, 12, #901 of 1309 🔗

Same on Spectator and Torrygraph.
the Conservative base is furious.
you really couldn’t get a more leftist of the extreme statist kind to do more damage to the socioeconomic fabric of a society than Boris and his present set of goons.
But it doesn’t seem to faze him.
Hes even losing the red wall faster then he put it up.
Maybe he should just join the Lib Dem’s like his old pals did during the Brexit debacle.

72187 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A Meshiea, 9, #902 of 1309 🔗

Let’s hope Labour supporters are equally furious at the pathetic showing of their leaders too when it comes to lockdowns and trashing of rights. Andy Burnham was truly awful.

72276 ▶▶▶ R G, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #903 of 1309 🔗

Guido has not had a good war. He has always been a creature of CCHQ, but especially so since Boris became PM.

72294 ▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to R G, 3, #904 of 1309 🔗

No he misses the mood totally. A series of articles on Labour and non-lib politicians that at present nobody has interest on. The spotlight should be full face on Alexander and his bunch of goons.

72161 ▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 11, #905 of 1309 🔗

There are corners of our Islsnd that have bays, cives and sandy beaches. Not the big sea fronts where crowds limit personal space – I mean secluded spots.

What I witnessed today was humanity. Large gathering of friends and families have fun in the sun in otherwise deserted idilic locations. Golden sand stretching for miles, rockpools and dunes.

The people had masses of space to be in. But they gathered together around campfires and bbqs as humans always have and always will. Many groups milling about, laughing joking within arms reach.

Heartening normality. People are people.

One pair of trunks with matching mask was seen – one. I stared in the way you do when you forget it’s rude to stare. Completely idiotic, his friends were all normal.

72177 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, 9, #906 of 1309 🔗

Yes I thought I noted a lot more traffic on this site over the last few days. We should welcome all new sceptics however they got here. We want a broad church of lockdown opposition not a narrow band of purists!

72215 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to OKUK, 2, #907 of 1309 🔗

Gosh, I just can’t see the tide turning at all. Everyone is wearing masks and they’ve just locked down my area again for no reason.

72245 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Moomin, 5, #908 of 1309 🔗

I think it’s in the attitudes of people. More are realising nothing makes sense. Doesn’t mean they will all rip off tgeir masks and become courageous. Its a slow burn to start ruffling feathers that lead eventually to a fully plucked roast turkey. Where did that metaphor come from!?

72270 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Moomin, 3, #909 of 1309 🔗

Doesn’t matter what they’ve locked down if nobody follows the rules 😊

72123 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 15, #910 of 1309 🔗

Apologies if this has been posted earlier.
Coronavirus analysis: We’re now at the limit of easing lockdown
This is it. We are now, give or take, at the absolute limit of how much we can reopen society without a resurgence of coronavirus.
This realisation at the heart of government is about more than delaying the opening of bowling alleys , it will define our lives for months to come – and probably until we have a vaccine.
And I’m sorry to break it to parents, but the biggest question mark now is around the reopening of schools.
Two weeks ago, Boris Johnson was setting out plans for normality by Christmas .
But since then the number of confirmed infections has started to creep up again.

“There is a real possibility that opening pubs, restaurants etc will increase the spread of the virus and, if that happens, schools might not be able to reopen in Sept.”


A truly terrifying article.

72133 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Barney McGrew, 8, #911 of 1309 🔗

It always was a power grab.

72147 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 13, #912 of 1309 🔗

Essentially financial times whitehall correspondent was at the same Gov briefing the bbc were at.

It is about taking our freedom. Breaking our will to live in a vibrant diverse society. They need us shaped and cowering. This is as good as it gets – unless tgere is an uprising.

This chill they are putting on the nation tonight and tomorrow will have people realising the trap they have spring on us. Not everyone, still the if we make sacrifices now we can live again in future exists – october will give those people a jolt.

Remember Patience.

3 weeks to flatten the curve.

72155 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 1, #913 of 1309 🔗

Patience. AAAAAARGH!!!!

72176 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #914 of 1309 🔗

Well since you put it like that I do sound like a condescending prat, yes! But I really only used to word so I didn’t have to write my full thought that the brainwashing will be slow to be undine it will happen in incemental stages. The good news is this issue doesnt need the alphas to become sceptic this is much more fundamental to individuals. Theirs a fair chance some influencing alohas may be left high and dry when the time comes.

72192 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 1, #915 of 1309 🔗

I am in favour of influencing alohas ! 🙂

72207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, #916 of 1309 🔗

JohnB – thats all mine! Not autotext – I really am hopeless at typing! Pleased you enjoy! Partially the site is so slow on my phone I type a few words then wait for them to appear.. sometimes its gold often not! I am remarkably inaccurate at typing, can’t spell, commas are not friendly – i will improve before all this is over!

My tech issue not site.

72166 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #917 of 1309 🔗

Agreed, I posted that earlier. Comments below. The BBC are enjoying this.

72225 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #918 of 1309 🔗

Yep.These bastards are never letting us out unless we make them

72134 George Dance, 7, #919 of 1309 🔗

“The law that we’re bringing in is that two households cannot meet in the area defined, but obviously any two households that are meeting should follow the social distancing guidelines,”
Amazing – Matt Hancock is admitting that the government expects people to not follow its law, and appealing to them to voluntarily socially distance instead.

72135 Basics, replying to Basics, 18, #920 of 1309 🔗

So tomorrows papers are quoting boris saying “obey the rules or face another lockdown”.

So this is it then. This is where pressure increases. He did it not us. People are not going to follow the rules. Yes, some will for a while. But the rules are stupud and impossible to follow for their lack of clarity. What is a ‘rule’ compated to ‘law’ or guidance for example.

So. Boris puts in a fresh lickdown in two weeks time. How will they enforce it? Are we heading towards armed forces to increase police numbers?

72151 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, 6, #921 of 1309 🔗

Obey – or else!
I suspect they’re trying to incite a rebellion so they can impose martial law.

72156 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Cheezilla, 8, #922 of 1309 🔗

“No one has the right to obey.”
Hannah Arendt

72181 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #923 of 1309 🔗

That wouldn’t help them. Our armed forces are nowhere near large enough to lockdown the country.

72184 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #924 of 1309 🔗

20,000 extra troops brought in at start of lockdown?

72205 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #925 of 1309 🔗

Where from? Most of the Forces are on deployment somewhere or other all the time. We had 20,000 troops in Northern Ireland in the 1970s, plus the RUC, and that was still not enough to control a Province of a million and a half people. You might need a few more than 20k to control a population of 67 million.

72280 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #926 of 1309 🔗

And what are they going to di? Start shooting people?Tanks on the streets?

72197 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #927 of 1309 🔗

How can they back up this threat obey or else? I don’t mean to sound feary nor saying ooh heck the army might be added. What can they do to enfirce lockdown? Might the come out with lockdown camps to hold people who refuse to go into house arrest? It seems like boris is using brinksmanship without much to enforce his nasty threat.

72204 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 8, #928 of 1309 🔗

Well it is a threat of collective punishment which is a direct breach of the Geneva Convention, the United Nations Charter on Human Rights, the European Court of Human Rights, the Human Rights Act (1998), and the Slavery Act (2015). There would also be issues under the Bill of Rights (1689) in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, which of course is the Claim of Right Act in Scotland.

So probably trying it on again.

72211 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, #929 of 1309 🔗

Yes these collect threats are for the reckoning. The rights you quote are there and provable.

72182 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #930 of 1309 🔗

I find this though reasonable. On balance its been a sequence of actions by them that leave a bread crumb trail heading towards riots and armed forces.

Ukcolumn today made a point that the MPs are realising these circumstances put them in more mortal danger than usual.

Never happy with violence or people living in fear. But I am sleeping well just now.

72194 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #931 of 1309 🔗

It seems as if they are trying to provoke the Muslims.I know the statistics are rubbish but the south west has similar numbers to the north west.No Muslims in the south west no local lockdown.

72200 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 6, #932 of 1309 🔗

Certainly trying to drive devisions between communities. This Eid lockdown calculated by the behavioural scientists to cause an annoyance among non muslims towards muslims – thats how cynic me sees this.

72220 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Basics, 2, #933 of 1309 🔗

The BLM diversion worked for a while but it seems to have petered out.

72230 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #934 of 1309 🔗

Placed on the back ring to simmer. It is alive in USA with much violence, we are kept unaware of violence – recall the non coverage of the yest vests – the french police and caseurs caused the violence mostly.

Blm will be back, but as ER, it appears the British have a good nose for fake protests. Both exploded onto the national agenda with a public response of “meh – not authentic!”

72451 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Basics, #935 of 1309 🔗

Yes, very likely correct. I thought this was the plan from when Leicester happened.

72159 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Basics, 22, #936 of 1309 🔗

I can report that here in my own part of the north west people are happily not following the rules and are holding parties in gardens on this hottest day of the year.

72186 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendy, 4, #937 of 1309 🔗

Good to hear Wendy. My part of the world people were doing the same. Humans all over enjoying the sun.

Corona is a bit vampirish liking the weak and keeping out of the sun.

72165 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 11, #938 of 1309 🔗

They can do what they want. I’m not going back into lockdown.

72190 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 6, #939 of 1309 🔗

Well the house that backs onto my garden had a lively 3 generation family get-together today. Kids squealing happily throughout. Good time had by all, apparently.

72191 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #940 of 1309 🔗

I think this is a miscalculated threat. I feel many, many will have the same courage as you Nick. Myself likewise.

72267 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 1, #941 of 1309 🔗

Message to Boris: obey the people or face political annihilation.

72275 ▶▶ R G, replying to Basics, 3, #942 of 1309 🔗

It’s a hollow threat, a second lockdown will finish this country economically.

72144 Tim, replying to Tim, 37, #943 of 1309 🔗

Just one week into the school holidays, and Our Government tells us we may not look after our grandchildren whilst their parents are working. Well this time they can fuck off. What are my daughter and her husband supposed to do? Resign from their jobs?

It’s a complete joke. Apart from anything else, we are not going to be cross-infected by our grandchildren.

Other Bradfordians are getting an even worse shock. Imagine being told on the eve of Eid that your biggest family celebration of the year has been canceled. I hope the Muslim community will join me in telling Boris and his gang to go and fuck themselves.

72150 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tim, 4, #944 of 1309 🔗

Kirklees. One lot of fireworks this evening, I’m sure there would normally have been a lot more. Disappointing.

72162 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Tim, 3, #945 of 1309 🔗

There’s plenty others over the other side of the Pennines who are not going to be doing anything Boris says

72201 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tim, 5, #946 of 1309 🔗
72209 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Tim, 1, #947 of 1309 🔗

It’s an absolute scandal and disgrace. I live near keighley and I am livid.

72146 Cheezilla, #948 of 1309 🔗

Sorry, another failed image!

72152 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 28, #949 of 1309 🔗

So I think I am now reaching the point where I genuinely fear that our future is gone. I think what’s tipped me over the edge is the BBC article that says that we have reached the limits of easing lockdown, with the agreement of Whitty, who earlier in the epidemic seemed to actually understand stuff; and the article in Spiked about a new trend of violently attacking people who are not wearing masks outdoors .

The idiots can’t help it, but the government, journalists, ‘scientists’ who are pushing this are beyond belief.

72193 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Barney McGrew, 16, #950 of 1309 🔗

I can’t see a way out either. The public have been fed one-sided propaganda for months with daily scare stories, reinforcing imagery and consensus from government, business, the media and celebrities. For some reason we on here are immune but you can’t just roll-back that level of conditioning. It’s like deprogramming a cult member. I can only see two ways out, a scandal that completely discredits the government or the most likely thing, a vaccine (placebo or not). Having said that the majority of the public are so easily led it might just take Stephen Fry saying it’s safe now to end it all.

72440 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Achilles, #951 of 1309 🔗

Indeed. Maybe Marcus Rashford’s giant intellect can save us again.

72158 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 16, #952 of 1309 🔗

I am somewhat encouraged by the evening headlines and comments in the Torygraph.
Maybe they’ve now overcooked it and the wind has started to change.

72168 ▶▶ Achilles, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #953 of 1309 🔗

Look at the highest rated comments on the BBC article though. Long way to go for a sea change of opinion I’m afraid.

72216 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Achilles, 10, #954 of 1309 🔗

Can we trust the BBC? I don’t think so. They are probably blocking loads of comments or parking them for “review”.

72223 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 6, #955 of 1309 🔗

77 brigade will be engaged where the highest traffic is. Suppose the bbc will have comments written by 77 brigade operatives. They will be the influencing ones not the ‘boneyknee’ ones. Might the bbc pin a 77 brigade comment or algorithm a normy comment to point of promience? The guardian does with its ‘editors picks’ comments that float like scum at the top of comment threads.

72232 ▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 4, #956 of 1309 🔗

I have always assumed (correctly of course) that our intelligence services are listening into absolutely everything, whether it’s Mumsnet, what your OH wants for their dinner or something a bit more sinister. But you are suggesting they manipulate discourse. Is there any evidence for that? Do you have a link?

72237 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 8, #957 of 1309 🔗

Yes there is evidence. No i don’t have a link.

A head man (don’t know name or rank) said on record 20,000 soliders from 77 brigade will be countering misinformation and proactively engaging in social media to 8nfluence discussion. Other armed forces of evivalent rank (high, never see a gun) also went on record to say how wrong this was, the British armed forces using digital warfare techniques on it’s own population.

I point you towards UK Column who covered it in some detail – they may have a written article about it. UkColumn also gave out the personal email and direct dial to a 77 brigade Leutenant Colonel more recently.

So yes I’m serious. No I can’t help you to links. Perhaps someond else can soon…

72246 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Basics, 1, #958 of 1309 🔗

Could always ask Boney Knee. But then again, he just goes silent when challenged.

72250 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 1, #959 of 1309 🔗

Thanks for your reply. Will look into it a bit more, I’ve noticed that when mon-PC s

72257 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 3, #961 of 1309 🔗

Yes, that is extremely concerning – that our armed forces are being engaged to stifle domestic debate within the UK. I think that is an impeachable offence if our PM has allowed that. Appalling that we have got to this state of affairs.

72265 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, #962 of 1309 🔗

Because of the sheer volume of these similar criminal/undemocratic actions it looks as though many if not all will be lost by weight of numbers.

72406 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kf99, replying to Basics, #963 of 1309 🔗

This makes sense but what about Sturgeonland? Having the Northern approach to the remaining UK exposed to the Russian threat and various important NATO bases closed down is more scary than anything virus-related. But why no infiltration of the “we love Nicola” brigade?

72227 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 9, #964 of 1309 🔗

“Can we trust the BBC?” Yeah, you can trust them to completely hide the truth from us.

72244 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to JohnB, 1, #965 of 1309 🔗

One thing is abundantly clear now:
the British people cannot handle the truth.

72262 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #966 of 1309 🔗

I disagree. The British people are robust, resilient and resourceful. They are being lied to 24/7. It’s not a fair test of character. They could easily handle the truth if not being lied to constantly.

72392 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to OKUK, 1, #967 of 1309 🔗

If only they realised the power they would have if they stopped glibly accepting the drip drip feed of the MSM fear-porn propaganda machine, and actually questioned and researched for themselves what the facts are. But they don’t. They believe every bit of nonsense thrown at them by MSM, and Daddy government will keep them “safe.”

72433 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Achilles, #968 of 1309 🔗

The BBC comments are clearly manipulated. There is a tell, whereby the occasional article is missed by the algorithm/mechanical Turk. It was clear with Brexit when 90% of recommended comments were suicide-inducing, but the odd thread showed sanity. I used to think it coincided with when momentum had forgotten to pay the wages. However, with the coronapanic I’ve only seen one article slip through where they fucked up the rigged comments.

72203 A Meshiea, replying to A Meshiea, 23, #969 of 1309 🔗

It made me ill watching Boris wearing his pointless mask after already recovering from Covid. I suppose that was to reinforce the myth that you can always get it twice.
Then, sounding incredibly inarticulate, he went on to feign disgust that anyone would be so dumb not to take a completely untested virus. You know “anti vaxers .”
He really is resoundingly stupid.

72212 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to A Meshiea, 11, #970 of 1309 🔗

It induced feelings of nausea in me as well to see him don the daft mask! Seeing someone I had previously felt was essentially a force for good succumbing to this vile nonsense was very demoralising. I am now officially “Over Boris”. If someone wants to start making “Over Boris” badges I won’t claim copyright! 🙂

72217 ▶▶ Basics, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #971 of 1309 🔗

Serious comment, try and find footage of post covid boris walking – there is something very wrong. It’s as though he is wearing calipers, I don’t think he is but his walking movement has a great deal of struggle in it.

72221 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 30, #972 of 1309 🔗

I think it’s because he’s had his balls removed, plus the fact he has no backbone must be seriously hampering him.

72224 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to JohnB, 5, #973 of 1309 🔗

True and he can’t see where he’s going, which affects his gait. 🙂

72226 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to JohnB, 1, #974 of 1309 🔗

Skipper you are a medic among us! Chuckling face here! Nice one

72369 ▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to JohnB, #975 of 1309 🔗

You’ve just described a slug, I think he is more Nero esque.

72297 ▶▶ John Ballard, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #976 of 1309 🔗

Think I was more stupid voting for the idiot

72368 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to A Meshiea, #977 of 1309 🔗


72231 nfw, replying to nfw, 12, #978 of 1309 🔗

What I find fascinating about the face nappy exemption cards and lanyards is they are not “official” but they recognised as such by the sheep without question because they look official. Fascinating Jim. It’s life Jim, but not as we know it.

72241 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to nfw, #979 of 1309 🔗

A psychological experiment and result that is basically a combination of those of Asch and Milgram.

72268 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to nfw, 8, #980 of 1309 🔗

Careful. Using them is just helping them to trial their own official ones.
when that happens you will pay them to prove you have a legitimate reason for refusing to do what they want.
im not a fan.
i don’t need a card, I will tell them no without using their flimsy and arbitrary exemptions.

72367 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to nfw, 1, #981 of 1309 🔗

Old military maxim:

Bullsh*t baffles brains.

With a confident manner, it works (almost) every time.

Ask Boris!

72235 nfw, -10, #982 of 1309 🔗

muslimic fasting simply means skipping morning tea and lunch for a while. Then you just pig (sic) out at night.

72238 Andrew Clapton, replying to Andrew Clapton, 3, #983 of 1309 🔗

Has anyone got the stats on how many people have ongoing problems after having covid 19? When I argue with the religious lockdown believers now the goal posts have inevitably changed again. Now the focus is on the lingering effects. Therefore lockdown is warranted. I may have missed it but I can’t find statistics as to how many are actually afflicted. Needles to say this is another attempt at obfuscation. Any help would be welcome.

72273 ▶▶ irkulla, replying to Andrew Clapton, #984 of 1309 🔗

I’m sorry I’m unable to provide statistics as you ask. I think that is part of the point, to scare people with a amorphous monster. But I just want to point out that lingering effects are most likely iatrogenic. The so-called “side-effects” of just about all drugs are exactly what are being reported. During an average year, people just attribute these to being under the weather. Now, we’re all going to die!

72290 ▶▶ Mark B, replying to Andrew Clapton, 5, #985 of 1309 🔗

One comment I read from a doctor was about how this is just about the most studied disease in the world so we are likely to find lots of side effects from it. How many people have damaged internal organs from flu but are never tested for it so remain hidden.

72420 ▶▶▶ Wesley, replying to Mark B, #986 of 1309 🔗

My husband lost an uncle – a very fit seventy-something who caught flu and died some time later of virus related heart damage.

72239 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #987 of 1309 🔗

“A senior executive for pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca has confirmed that his company cannot face legal action for any potential side effects caused by its Covid vaccine. Those affected will have no legal recourse.”


Curious BBC haven’t got this story.

72248 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 5, #988 of 1309 🔗

Isn’t that pretty much standard for vaccines? That’s why all major advanced countries have vaccine courts or similar to ajudicate claims otherwise no company would ever manufacture a vaccine – the companies know they can kill and maim.

72258 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 3, #989 of 1309 🔗

Yes standard. Worthwhile posting since it has been a large part of the corona/covid vaccine debate. The article gives unequivocal comment about this specific circumstance. UK Gov has a flat fee of £120,000 for the more serious vaccine harms or death.

Gates previously stated in his 17minute interview on BBC breakfast that corona pandemic vaccines would require laws passing in a few countries where such a ‘immunity’ doesn’t currently exist.

72266 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Basics, 3, #990 of 1309 🔗

I don’t think that Covid is good for the vaccine lobby (why don’t we call them the “Xtreme Vaxers”?). Over the next few weeks and months there will be so much publicity about a Covid vaccination that people will start googling on “vaccination” and even with all the censorship in place they will start to put 2 and 2 together.

72279 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 6, #991 of 1309 🔗

No they won’t. They can’t do advanced mathematics.

72339 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to OKUK, 4, #992 of 1309 🔗

They won’t though, the majority are sheep and just follow what they’re told. I’ve one guy I work with, he’s 28 and his wife is 26, they just had a baby, and he told me he can’t wait to have this vaccine so life can return to normal. He no consideration that this rushed vaccine could kill him or severely disable him, leaving him unable to provide for his family.

The scary thing is all the all the others think like that too, they all believe what they’re told.

72364 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to JohnB, #993 of 1309 🔗

He has obviously not considered that the “vaccine” may leave him unable to have any more children?

72407 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to JohnB, #994 of 1309 🔗

My parents had an excuse when they got us vaccinated unquestioned in the 60s and 70s.
Today’s parents don’t.

72365 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to OKUK, #995 of 1309 🔗

So-called “anti-vaxxers” are never given airtime on mainstream media anywhere. So people end up thinking they believe the earth is flat. The reason their voices are never allowed to be heard is because they have so many good arguments to support their position that many would begin to wonder if nationwide mandatory childhood vaccination schedules are such a good idea after all. You always get some doctor with lots of letters after his name talking in modulated tones about how wonderful vaccines are. Bit like covid really – if you want information from the other side you have to search for it. Here’s a link to the CDC vaccine schedule for American kids – can’t help thinking it’s a bit excessive. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/child-adolescent.html

72252 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 11, #996 of 1309 🔗

Leaving the impact of more testing in all countries and the currently huge impact of false positives on all spikes aside:
The only correlation that I can see now is, that those countries which refrained from mandating masks after the restrictions were loosened (Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, NL) have LESS and LOWER infectionary spikes now than those who did, do and widen them.
Go figure.

Seems that masks are indeed dangerous.
And that they make their wearer stupid.

72264 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #997 of 1309 🔗

I believe most African countries are not masking.

72301 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Basics, 4, #998 of 1309 🔗

Tanzania I believe has banned them as is another African country.

72358 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #999 of 1309 🔗

stupid – and arrogant.

72253 Youth_Unheard, replying to Youth_Unheard, 24, #1000 of 1309 🔗

It baffles me some of the lockdown loving thought processes. I was out with a friend this evening, no distancing all normal just talking normally about other things for the majority. Then obviously covid came up. She was saying it’s right that England are slowing down and Wales are doing the right thing, yet at the same time essentially breaking every “rule” to combat the spread. I find it quite bizarre, I think it is a case for a lot of people that they think the rules apply to other people, not them so they’re safe as long as others are doing it! Then of course I had to enlighten her with the deaths with rather than from, PHE recording, pre existing conditions, median age over 80, under 1500 healthy people under 65 died, comparable to many other diseases. Sadly initial response is still “but that’s 1500 lives”, but me pointing out that 10000 die every week and then asking why are those deaths any more tragic than the thousands of other preventable ones every week? That seemed to be the moment where a lightbulb switched on, finally acknowledging that there should be a focus on all lives…..

72260 ▶▶ DavidC, replying to Youth_Unheard, 5, #1001 of 1309 🔗

I really do hope the lightbulb lit for her.


72263 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Youth_Unheard, 4, #1002 of 1309 🔗

Have experienced this rules for others but not me first hand in highly intellectual people, above my pay grade. I challenged both at the time but got no where and since I find this so angering I wisely left them to it. Lowered my opinion of both.

72304 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Youth_Unheard, 9, #1003 of 1309 🔗

There are a range of character types in society, as a broad generalisation, for society to work well it needs a majority who are OK to ‘toe the line’. However, to be dynamic society does need some radical free thinkers, innovators and people who question everything. I suspect that on this site we have an unusually high proportion of people who fall into this latter group. The more so as there seems to be a frightening lack of challenges to the Governments policy on this virus by any Politicians or in any of the main media sources, hence we have all gravited to this, the only site that seems to offer a platform for such a challenge.
When this virus started I had no idea how many people normally died each week in the UK, so when we started getting reports of deaths I thought I had better put this into context and looked up the stats on normal deaths and flu winter deaths which did put it all into some context. What has surprised me is how few people have done this and just wrung their hands in despair over deaths which of course are sad events but you do need a reality check. The same with the serious long term effects that some people get with Covid, very sad and concerning but, reality check, this is noit the only disease that can cause lingering effect in a few e.g. MSE.
In my view, in the end, only 2 things count, total weekly deaths compered to the long term average and the number of serious hospital cases. On both these counts things are OK now and we should pack up this ridiculous circus and get on with life. However, somebody invented testing and we now seem to have a national emergency over every dodgy pillar 2 test result and this nonsense has the ability to go on for ever ‘the Hotel California’ scenario. Testing is useful and has its place but should not be deciding policy on this way, as it is, it is a bit like the ants we have around the house at the moment, you have to learn to manage them you cannot totally eliminate them.
Anyway thank goodness for Spotify, currently listening to Leonard Cohen to cheer me up, yes you heard that right – compared to Chris Witty (the Goddess of Gloom – Dylan) Leonard Cohen is like Mr Jollity!

72306 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Steve Martindale, #1004 of 1309 🔗

Agreed. This is almost like a support platform for rational thinkers to prevent total despair.
On music:
I happened upon Peter Gabriel’s “Don’t Give up” last night
Made me think of this “new normal” world….

72359 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Steve Martindale, #1005 of 1309 🔗

I found Nena’s 99 Red Balloons cheered me up as it was out at the height of the cold war and “imminent” nuclear bomb “threat”. Difference was then we got on with our lives.

72415 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Youth_Unheard, #1006 of 1309 🔗

Even although your friend seemed to have a light bulb moment, she would have turned it off again fast as entertaining the idea that it’s been a massive con will blow her tiny mind and overturn her idea of the nature of her governance. She can’t afford to do that. It’s ego death if she does.

72269 Smileits1984, #1007 of 1309 🔗

The conspiracy theorists have taken over the asylum. Utterly depressing

72272 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 8, #1008 of 1309 🔗

Prime Minister Boris Johnson is an authoritarian prig!
My favourite definition:
Prig | Definition of Prig at Dictionary.com https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/ip3/www.dictionary.com.ico https://www.dictionary.com/browse/prig
Prig definition, a person who displays or demands of others pointlessly precise conformity, fussiness about trivialities, or exaggerated propriety, especially in a self-righteous or irritating manner. See more.

72366 ▶▶ IanE, replying to richard riewer, #1009 of 1309 🔗

And that is his best point!

72274 richard riewer, 9, #1010 of 1309 🔗

Woke Culture is a Purge Culture. Like Mao, Stalin…

72278 Arkleston, #1011 of 1309 🔗

Those stupid surgical masks, I despise them. Cut out the inner linings and drag a needle and heavy silk thread through them multiple times to make them more porous.

I wonder how surgeons feel these days, expected to move around with Joe Public, wearing the masks that they are now highly unlikely to wear in a hospital setting, given that most elective surgeries are postponed till god knows when. Liable for arrest for non-compliance, but can’t mask up to treat a person who dearly wants to be treated.

72286 Nicky, #1012 of 1309 🔗

Has anyone else heard the great interview between Brendan O’Neill and Dr John Lee on Spiked – ‘the lockdown has been cruel and negligent’? Listened to it last night. Lifted my spirits no end. Thoroughly recommend if you want a succinct and rational summary of the futility and potential damage of it all. Love this site btw and all the comments . Has been keeping me sane knowing I am not alone with my thoughts!

72293 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 18, #1013 of 1309 🔗

Don’t you think though that a large percentage of people affected with yet more restrictions will do what they have done for weeks…..ignore them and use common sense?
It is like the government have no will go get over this,, why not?
I thought they had a summer break? Can they not all disappear and just let the country get on with it? That is the only thing I would stand on the doorstep to clap for!
It is beyond incompetence and the vast majority of the MPs saying nothing about any of this is as big a shame. Hardly any of them question anything, why on Earth not? At least in the past when they were rowing you felt there was debate. Now they are all sheep and non of them are voteable. It’s a shame there isn’t a Farage or equivalent with the will and drive to be highlighting the bullsh*t every day and use it to get the millions hacked off onside now ready for the next election. Always been a conservative voter, never again, lies lies lies and gross stupidity.
Boris and his Chancellor are just bribing and blackmailing with billions we don’t have, getting the country more and more in debt and ruining millions of lives. Which other industry would you give pay rises to when they have done next to nothing for months, teachers? The man is out of control.
As for Hancock, I had never heard of him pre this nightmare, he needs to step aside and let someone with some degree of balance take charge,
Will it ever end?

72298 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to John Ballard, 19, #1014 of 1309 🔗

Current top comment on the above Mail lead article

“I think the whole government should be furloughed indefinitely so we can get on with our lives!”

Article is not worth reading but the tenor of the comments is encouraging

72299 ▶▶▶ John Ballard, replying to Strange Days, 16, #1015 of 1309 🔗

there must be millions who have had enough and would sooner just take their chances, I know I would. I called it the snowflake pandemic months ago, nothing has changed my mind. With these idiots running things I can imagine the rest of my life being one lockdown after another.

72310 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Strange Days, 12, #1016 of 1309 🔗

Indeed. I was encouraged yesterday by the votes on the ‘comments’ section In the Mail on a similar article, where the rational comments votes were outnumbering the bedwetters by a factor of about 8 to 1. This thing will turn, and I believe it will do so more quickly than many believe, including the Government. Rational argument always has stronger currency in the end, than hysteria.

72317 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Chris Hume, #1017 of 1309 🔗

When do you think it will?

72321 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 10, #1018 of 1309 🔗

It’s a creeping, silent revolt. Slow, yes. But every tiny act of defiance helps.

‘Thought crime’ helps. Think it.


72332 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to annie, 1, #1019 of 1309 🔗

I understand Annie, the damage from all this is too big to be concealed. I was just wondering when they thought the turn might happen.

72404 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to DRW, 1, #1020 of 1309 🔗

The media will sniff when its tactics don’t work anymore and are about to start backfiring.
Then, they will try to cover their a*ses and turn on the politicians instead, immediately joined by the trade bodies, and followed by the unions.
Unless the politicians are quick and ruthless enough to do an Erdogan or so then.

The ensuing witchhunt must and will be merciless towards that media, its pseudo-journalists and the pseudo-scientists as well though.
Claiming to have been duped won’t cut it this time.
Which they probably know and which is why it will take a huge change of opinion before they change theirs.

72416 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Wesley, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1021 of 1309 🔗

Perhaps the tide maybe turning. This morning’s Telegraph has three highly critical opinion pieces already, including an excellent one by Ross Clark.

72494 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Strange Days, 1, #1022 of 1309 🔗

I think the only thing worth saying to Whitty is two monosyllabic words.

72300 ▶▶ Liberty B, replying to John Ballard, 15, #1023 of 1309 🔗

Agree completely. A way out of this just seems like common sense yet every day we get further from normal and now Saint Chris Whitty has said this is the closest we can expect to get to normal. What?! Ever?! Terrifying and incomprehensible in equal measure.

72308 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to John Ballard, 5, #1024 of 1309 🔗

Farage supports this crap. We need someone better than him anyway. Where is Julia Hartley Brewer on this, Isabel Oakeshott? Peter Hitchens is a superb voice of sanity. Sumption is good, but probably too posh for many and is sullied by his Remainer stance. Claire Fox and Brendan O’Neill as a double act maybe?

72340 ▶▶▶ Andy C, replying to Chris Hume, 6, #1025 of 1309 🔗

JHB has been one of the biggest bed wetters of them all.

72361 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Andy C, 1, #1026 of 1309 🔗

Yes, quite a shock to me, that!

72355 ▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #1027 of 1309 🔗

Brewer is awful a complete fake Conservative.

72495 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Chris Hume, 1, #1028 of 1309 🔗

What the f. has Brexit to do with it? (Re. Sumption)

72539 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #1029 of 1309 🔗

Brexiteers don’t trust remainers to follow through on Brexit, and with good reason. Until we are actually out and the die-hard remainers are finally forced to cease their unending efforts to overturn the referendum results, that well earned distrust will remain.

72322 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to John Ballard, 10, #1030 of 1309 🔗

In answer to your first question – yes. I drove 40 miles yesterday to the beach. Passed through two large towns. Spent three hours at a beach where there must have been several hundreds of people – plenty of room for everyone but hey, we’re British and keep our distance anyway so it felt completely normal. No distancing observed _ ie no insane panicked dancing routines if anyone got within 6 feet of anyone else. And guess how many masks I saw all day? Apart from an old bloke at the bus stop near my house – none.

72296 davews, replying to davews, 15, #1031 of 1309 🔗

Has anybody else noticed that the 1m+ limit has now been quietly forgotten and it is 2m distancing everywhere. 1m+ was based on using masks and similar to allow 1m rather than 2m distancing. Now everybody (sadly) is wearing masks in shops they are still claiming people are breaking the limits if they get any nearer than 2m. Boris refused to change 2m to the WHO recommended 1m, now he has even ignored his compromise.

72315 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to davews, 8, #1032 of 1309 🔗

Where I live all distancing has been forgotten!

72338 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to davews, 2, #1033 of 1309 🔗

The shops were very quick to put the 2m stickers down weren’t they? I’m yet to see any 1m+ stickers sadly.

72381 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Tom Blackburn, #1034 of 1309 🔗

The railway companies have put signs which just say ‘keep your distance’ with the distance not specified. And as for these silly one way routes in streets, I got totally confused in Reading as once you got into the wrong direction side there was no way out…

72375 ▶▶ helenf, replying to davews, 1, #1035 of 1309 🔗

I was in Knutsford the other day and there were “keep 2m apart” signs all over the pavements, including on those that weren’t even 1m wide, so to obey one must walk into the road and risk getting run down by cars coming from behind on the narrow one-way system. I had to laugh. Seems that any rational “health and safety” thinking has gone completely out of the window. Objective risk assessment, a thing of the past. Covid craziness trumps absolutely everything!

72302 Albie, replying to Albie, 10, #1036 of 1309 🔗

Depressing news that 84% of respondents to a survey (reported by Telegraph yesterday) support the Government’s quarantine for Spain with 69% having no problem with it having no notice. A pass for Boris from the public to do what he wants. I have got a feeling though that survey respondents now are largely the ones still too scared to venture outdoors. They’ve got the time after all! Question people enjoying their time, the best they can at least, in a leisure environment like parks, cafes and pubs etc and I suspect the survey may yield different results.

72313 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Albie, 10, #1037 of 1309 🔗

Does anyone ever know anyone who has participated in these surveys? My guess is no.

72412 ▶▶▶ Wesley, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1038 of 1309 🔗

No, they always use the same hand-picked idiots.

72314 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Albie, 5, #1039 of 1309 🔗

The only press article I have seen that properly challnges the Governments position is Janet Street Porter https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8576889/When-did-policy-flattening-curve-ruin-lives.html
Not sure how many Mail readers will have changed their views as a result but we live in hope.

72328 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Albie, 5, #1040 of 1309 🔗

It’s quite odd that these polls show this, but when I did a poll of people who actually know someone who was confirmed positive for COVID-19, 78% of people did not know anyone that’d tested positive.

72336 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Albie, 3, #1041 of 1309 🔗

Every time one of these measures are introduced, the government TOTALLY piss off a ‘new’ 5% of the population however. Those that have been compliant and were going to go for a quiet pint in Leicester / holiday in Spain / wedding reception suddenly become apoplectic. I’d ignore stuff like this personally.

72373 ▶▶▶ Albie, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1042 of 1309 🔗

Your first sentence is a very good point. It is tangibly happening.

Just an observation about the mask in cinema rule coming in….who the hell wants to sit in a room with a mask on to watch a film for two plus hours?? Why would you do that for relaxation? End of the cinemas without doubt. The fact the rule is in place will see to it that very few will visit a cinema.

72409 ▶▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Albie, 1, #1043 of 1309 🔗

I hate films, all of them propaganda. The last film I watched was 28 weeks later, that set the scene for this shit-show and I could see it coming back then. I was very upset by that film and I vowed NEVER to watch any more films again. I really haven’t.

72386 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Albie, 2, #1044 of 1309 🔗

Every poll is doctored, and part of the propaganda effort.

72456 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Albie, 2, #1045 of 1309 🔗

TellIng you. Landline phones.

72303 Brian, replying to Brian, 2, #1046 of 1309 🔗

Yesterday I watched the World Snooker Tournament in Sheffield they allowed a third of the
capacity audience about 300 people. Actually they could not sell all the tickets. The tournament is normally sold out. I guess to many people scared and traveling , accommodation to difficult. But from today no audience allowed. As its a 17 day competition they are hoping a audience will be allowed back for the final two days of the final.
As your article points out there are a few holes in there policy

The Beatles – A Day In The Life Four thousand holes in blackburn, lancashire
And though the holes were rather small
They had to count them all
Now they know how many holes it takes to fill the albert hall

72379 ▶▶ davews, replying to Brian, #1047 of 1309 🔗

Yes, the empty seats in the Crucible, even allowing for social distancing, was plain for all to see. Who would buy an expensive ticket and cost of hotel (itself hardly a pleasant experience) if you know Boris could cancel it at the spur of the moment.

72305 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1048 of 1309 🔗

Any number of people in the medical profession know what the answer is to this coronavirus outbreak

Because there are any number of countries that are not suffering from it.

And what do they all have in common?

A tuberculosis vaccination program……


They were going to do trials in Vietnam, but they couldn’t find enough……you know the rest…….


Oh for heaven’s sake!

72349 ▶▶ helenf, replying to Tim Bidie, #1049 of 1309 🔗

I just tried clicking on your first link (ncbi) and got an “access denied” message, “blocked for possible abuse”. WTF?!

72307 Liberty B, replying to Liberty B, 23, #1050 of 1309 🔗

Really shocked by the news this morning. Everything that is going on seems so incomprehensible, including total lack of push-back, that most of the time I just try to get on with life in the hope that this madness will just pass. Cowardly perhaps but I just haven’t found something to do that I believe will have an effect. My MP is a nurse who supposedly worked on Covid wards during the crisis so if I write to her I’m pretty certain I’ll be dismissed as a science-denying nutter. Then what? Keep Britain Free do not have a new demonstration in the offing as far as I can see and the first one was so pitifully attended I think it just served to confirm to Covid-believers that we’re a load of fringe nutters. If KBF organised another rally I’d go and tell as many people as possible but mobilising people on Facebook or Twitter is impossible because you just get a load of abuse or unfriended. Anyway, I left a non-abusive, critical comment on Boris’s FB page. I know, if read at all, comments will be read only by lowly minion, but if for example all of us left a comment on Boris’s page today it would be noticeable. As the news increasingly seems to be about who tweets or FBs what, then it might get noticed. It takes 2 mins and might have an effect. Also I’m going to buy a number of T-shirts featuring the Swedish flag and wear them in public places. Perhaps we could start a trend for people wearing items of clothing featuring. Swedish flag as a subtle (too subtle?) protest (also good way of recognising a sympathiser). I am going to write to my MP anyway, cancel my Conservative membership, and return the free post envelope they sent me this week (begging for a donation – as if!) with a critical letter inside. And I’m going to wear those T-shirts!

72309 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Liberty B, 9, #1051 of 1309 🔗

I love the t-shirt idea.
How about with the text Keep Calm and Carry on around it.
On the back, the UK flag with “Panic and Stay at Home” around it.

72311 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Liberty B, 3, #1052 of 1309 🔗

Not a bad idea, although I would prefer a tee shirt with Piers Morgan and Beff Rigby on it wearing masks and Toby laughing at them!

72312 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Liberty B, 4, #1053 of 1309 🔗

I have started wearing an I Love Sweden t-shirt and a Prisoner t-shirt. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexex, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. If you want to go for the unsubtle approach look at Carl Vernon’s designs on his website. Ha ha.

72353 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Mr Dee, #1054 of 1309 🔗

Love Carl’s ‘2 + 2 = 4’ design. Too subtle for most people though.

72333 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Liberty B, #1055 of 1309 🔗

I’ve ordered some stickers that will soon be adorning local lampposts. I suggest the same for others. Whether they get noticed / immediately ripped off or not is neither here nor there – even the process of making the designs using phone apps is cathartic.

Whatever you do, TAKE ACTION, as compliant degradation is not an option.

72382 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Liberty B, 2, #1056 of 1309 🔗

It’s gonna be interesting to watch reports about the demos in Berlin today, to see whether that makes any sense at all.

My hunch is that we are lost, and that mankind does not want to and does not deserve to live free

72318 hotrod, replying to hotrod, -2, #1057 of 1309 🔗

“Establishment Left”. Picking up on a point below about the BBC.
The BBC are NOT Left and haven’t been since Brexit. The roles of the “lovely Laura” and John Humphrys and the like in securing Brexit and then the election for Boris and Cummings by misleading the “common man” has been a scandal that I suspect many on here enjoyed as it went their way.

Now you are seeing the BBC simply again doing what Boris and Cummings want and there is NOTHING you can do about it. That is why so few BBC journalists are able to question Lockdown and the Covid response, they have to follow the Cummings briefings.

You reap what you sow.

72319 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to hotrod, #1058 of 1309 🔗

Should read unable to question. Apologies.

72325 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to hotrod, #1059 of 1309 🔗

There is an edit facility – but you have to act quick as it is only available for a few minutes. Float your cursor over what you have written and a small cogged wheel symbol will appear underneath on the right. Click on that.

72323 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to hotrod, 2, #1060 of 1309 🔗

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid mate!

72347 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to hotrod, #1061 of 1309 🔗

is it like that tangled web?

72490 ▶▶ RickH, replying to hotrod, 1, #1062 of 1309 🔗

The BBC is simply establishment biased when it comes to News and Current Affairs, particularly. Always has been, as shown in many studies of the subject (see, for example : Tom Mills : The BBC – Myth of a Public Service).

The recent change has been in the direction of being more strongly and overtly the voice of government (not synonymous with ‘establishment’).

72504 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to hotrod, #1063 of 1309 🔗

The BBC were used extensively as government propaganda mouthpiece during WW2. It was a very clever campaign. George Orwell worked for the BBC.

72534 ▶▶ Mark, replying to hotrod, 1, #1064 of 1309 🔗

Brexit really stands alone as not straightforwardly a left/right issue. More broadly it’s literally irrational (or dishonest) to try to pretend the BBC is not objectively leftwing (and pro-establishment, which is also objectively left-wing nowadays). We know for a fact that most BBC employees support Labour or the LibDems and that it is an openly toxic environment for anyone who admits to supporting the “Conservative” Party. As for Kuenssburg, I think we know how she really feels about Cummings now.

The BBC does operate as an official propaganda arm for the government in times of supposed “crisis”, and has done so during the coronapanic, but there’s no reason to suppose the BBC’s corporate and collective attitude is any different from that of most other Guardianistas – more lockdown, harder, faster.

72320 Liberty B, replying to Liberty B, 14, #1065 of 1309 🔗

Glad people like the idea of a T-shirt. I have considered printing them with ‘wish I was in Sweden’ on them. Suspect I’ll be censored by any personalised T-shirt company. ‘I love Sweden’ is probably better idea. Just ambiguous enough to avoid a punch in the face from the Covid fanatics.

72324 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Liberty B, 3, #1066 of 1309 🔗

Blue and yellow design or Swedish flag with:
“These colours don’t run”

Words more usually seen on basic black…

72455 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Strange Days, 1, #1067 of 1309 🔗

The Swedish are what the British were

picture of bull dog with Swedish flag waist coat

72329 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Liberty B, 1, #1068 of 1309 🔗

Do you really think these people will resort to violence?

72344 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Mr Dee, #1069 of 1309 🔗
72352 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Mr Dee, -1, #1070 of 1309 🔗

Some of them, yes – cf. The behaviour of the extreme anti-choice bods who are happy to blow up abortion clinics.

72405 ▶▶ Two-Six, replying to Liberty B, 1, #1071 of 1309 🔗

Covid fanatics won’t get the irony, too thick.

72460 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Liberty B, 2, #1072 of 1309 🔗

“I’m not a Turnip. I prefer Swedes.”

72326 Cecil B, #1073 of 1309 🔗


72330 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 17, #1074 of 1309 🔗

During Brexit we had Steve Baker, that funny characture fellow from Somerset, the ERG and the 1922 Committee calling May to account.

Where have they all gone?

Who scrutinises Johnson and Cummings?

Why don’t the so called Left wing BBC ask that question?

72351 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to hotrod, 3, #1075 of 1309 🔗

I think they are keeping quiet because their ultimate goal is getting out of the eu finalised. No point rocking the boat publicly, but there is probably some pressure in private.

The other day ian duncan smith said we need to keep the vulnerable safe and get the rest back to work.

72413 ▶▶ Kath Andrews, replying to hotrod, 1, #1076 of 1309 🔗

I emailed Steve Baker a few days ago – outlining my concerns and asking what he is doing about this…I am yet to receive reply

72511 ▶▶ Mark, replying to hotrod, #1077 of 1309 🔗

Because the left-wing (Labour and LibDem parties, Guardian, BBC, Independent etc – nothing “so-called” about it) is enthusiastically behind the whole coronapanic and lockdown, and its only real criticisms of the government have been that they didn’t lock down faster and harder.

You know that, because it’s been pointed out to you before and you have no answer to it. Once you’ve moved on from your personal denial about that point, perhaps you can address reality more accurately.

72331 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 2, #1078 of 1309 🔗

Hi, does anyone know how many new testing stations/how much extra testing was undertaken in Bradford in the last few weeks?

According to this:


There have been hardly any cases in week 30.


72844 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Moomin, #1079 of 1309 🔗

From 46 to 58 cases in a week!
wow how scary. Yes let’s make 3 million people pay for it.

72334 Cecil B, #1080 of 1309 🔗


72337 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 15, #1081 of 1309 🔗

How can all of this really be incompetence? I need to understand how this level of social and economic destruction can be incompetence. NB I’m not suggesting I understand or am theorising an alternative, but how can all of this be incompetence? I genuinely want to hear from those that feel it is.

72342 ▶▶ anon, replying to Country Mumkin, 9, #1082 of 1309 🔗

it is not possible to be this incompetent

72398 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to anon, 9, #1083 of 1309 🔗

I think decision making is done by opinion polls;
Opinion polls want face nappies, we get face nappies,
Opinion polls want more quarantine, we get more quarantine,
Opinion polls want slower lockdown easing, that’s what we get,

We are being governed by opinion polls not by decisive leadership, The Bozo the clown show is scared of being accused of reacting too slow by a labour party who would have locked down before Wuhan did

72522 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Major Panic, #1084 of 1309 🔗

Penn and Teller did a piece on polling back over a decade ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9EWDB_zK4

72535 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to IMoz, #1085 of 1309 🔗

Marvellous – so we are being governed by the pollsters, who funds them?

72537 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to anon, 2, #1086 of 1309 🔗

I agree.The government planned the lockdown and wasn’t panicked into.Boris Johnson made a speech on March 13 saying ‘Loved ones will die’ he knew by then.

72362 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #1087 of 1309 🔗

Group think, and confirmation bias, and people who think and work in silos, not talking or collaborating or challenging each other, there was a good article about it, will try to find it.

I’m reading a good book, The Blunders of Our Governments, they’ve got form, albeit, not on this scale.

72380 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to BecJT, #1088 of 1309 🔗

I’add sunken cost fallacy.
And in the UK the general unableness to admit a mistake and the abhorrence of being blamed for anything.

But as soon as I hear a truly sensible conspiracy theory, I am on board.

And if they were in good faith at the start AND still do, there is only one explanation left.
For that, watch the movie Deep Impact, for example.

72425 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to BecJT, 1, #1089 of 1309 🔗

WWI would probably top most lists of government blunders…

72538 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to stewart, #1090 of 1309 🔗

This comes a close second

72498 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to BecJT, 2, #1091 of 1309 🔗

Agree, plus having got to where we are now, they are really scared of the coming economic cliff-edge and may be using their obviously very useful ‘nudge’ propaganda tactics to keep us under their thumb. They don’t want riots in the autumn, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they are working out how to prevent riots right now using these tactics. I can see the logic in that, but of course they have totally over-reached themselves and the weight of unintended consequences may catch up.

72394 ▶▶ DJ Dod, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #1092 of 1309 🔗

I believe that the decision to impose the ‘lockdown’ was taken on the spur of the moment, without considering the consequences – it was effectively a panic reaction to the hysterical media reporting and Professor Ferguson’s absurd projections.

It might have been possible to relax the ‘lockdown’ earlier, once it became clear that there was no danger of the NHS being overwhelmed, but we are now in a situation where it is clear that the ‘lockdown’ has caused the deaths of thousands of people in care homes and ravaged the economy, to say nothing of the collateral damage to the many thousands who have been denied care by the NHS.

It is a mistake of such monumental proportions that the Government is desperate to sustain the illusion that Covid-19 is an existential threat to the nation. I believe that the seemingly irrational actions of Government only make sense if viewed as a distraction from their culpability for such a disastrous policy.

So, yes, it is incompetence. Epic incompetence, almost beyond comprehension, but still incompetence.

72401 ▶▶▶ Two-Six, replying to DJ Dod, 2, #1093 of 1309 🔗

It’s not incompetence, it’s a business plan.

72436 ▶▶▶▶ helenf, replying to Two-Six, #1094 of 1309 🔗

Agreed. The Great Reset. If we let them.

72417 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to DJ Dod, 5, #1095 of 1309 🔗

That pretty much sums up my view.

Whether there is some machiavellian plan by a group of uber rich and influential people to take advantage or even provoke the crisis, is a bit of a moot point for me. Governments needn’t act so poorly and irresponsibly, They haven’t in Sweden.

It’s awkward to accept, but stupidity, mendacity and the ruthless pursuit of self interest tend to explain most government actions.

72419 ▶▶▶ Stuart Barker, replying to DJ Dod, 6, #1096 of 1309 🔗

Yes, that’s my view.

Initially incompetence, panic and utterly craven leadership.

But now something much more sinister, a deliberate policy of continued misinformation and fear-mongering in order to avoid that initial failure being exposed. A cover-up, essentially, of monumental proportions and with catastrophic consequences.

The Tory party has utterly lost any semblance of morality.

72457 ▶▶▶ R G, replying to DJ Dod, 2, #1097 of 1309 🔗

This sums up my thoughts, but I also think it has been fuelled by the scientific illiteracy of the political classes. To them, science is this monolithic entity where men wearing lab coats do clever stuff, which is why you get “The Science” and things like the R number being treated with a certain level of mysticism. It’s not hard to see how this leads to the Government being captured by public health experts.

72480 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to R G, #1098 of 1309 🔗

I think that you also have to add in the poor science that has typified much of the supporting narrative. There are some, working in pretty narrow fields of competence, who have forgotten the very basics of good data analysis (first of all – just LOOK in the context of the real world. After that it’s all questions).

Early on in this sad tale of nonsense, I had a ‘Zoom’ argument with someone who claimed statistical expertise because his job involved Principal Component Analysis ( actually done by a computer).

I wanted to say “What’s the point of such analyses if you haven’t read the first chapter in the book – about looking and hypothesis testing?”

But – at that stage – I was a bit polite.

72544 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to DJ Dod, #1099 of 1309 🔗

Sounds plausible but,every government in the western world bar Sweden is incompetent in exactly the same way.

72421 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Country Mumkin, 3, #1100 of 1309 🔗

I go back to the case of Professor Sir Roy Meadow (note the credentials, the esteem he was held in).

He was eventually struck off (which is the only reason we can speak of this as a fact), but not before leaving a trail of wrecked lives due to his incompetence. He had a mathematical model that showed that the chances of two children in one family dying from the same, natural, cause was 1 in 73 million. He was prepared to use this dumb ‘science’ to send twice-bereaved mothers to prison regardless of an absence of any other evidence. How can a person do that? How can they sleep at night without worrying that they might be wrong?

Neil Ferguson and his acolytes are the same. They have a ‘model’ (really just an idea, that probably took root in their head on Day 1 of the Modelling module of their degree course), and they are utterly convinced that it represents reality. They develop an entire career on this one idea, and are so confident in it, and so persuasive to politicians, that they are prepared to wreck the country, even the world, if it tells them to.

72458 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1101 of 1309 🔗

Ferguson actually got an MA in Physics, and a PhD in theoretical physics; he attended a lecture on modelling HIV and took off from there, accroding to Wikipedia based on BBC

72466 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 1, #1102 of 1309 🔗

The skills related to modelling are fairly generic – the problem is in being a crap scientist with regard to proper testing and analysis.

72508 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, #1103 of 1309 🔗

I’m fully aware of that, but you need to understand the thing you’re trying to model, it’s not just the numbers; and given that he was grossly inaccurate in the past, I doubt he does.

Someone whom I know who spent their whole life doing computer models told me this (back in 2005ish): “To model a live thing you first have to ‘kill’ it, but once you ‘kill’ it, it no longer is representative of the live thing you’re trying to model—so there you go!”

72502 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to IMoz, #1104 of 1309 🔗

There you go!

72500 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #1105 of 1309 🔗

how can all of this be incompetence ?”

Taking theorising based on modelling and seemingly clever ideas about how things should work too seriously rather than relying on real world facts, allowing media panic mongering to rage unchecked, then responding to popular panic-driven opinion, then allowing experts to drive policy into systematically pushing fear even higher to encourage compliance with panic measures now deemed “necessary”, combined with following foreign precedents based on the woeful authoritarian Chinese response followed disastrously by the Italian panic response to the failure of their regionally unfit for purpose medical services.

Then the usual refusal to admit the colossal errors that had already been made and desperate determination to deny and cover up anything that might require facing up to the same, digging the hole ever deeper because to stop digging requires admitting error and culpability for unprecedented levels of national self-harm. In the US, multiplied by an almost psychotic media refusal to countenance anything that might suggest Trump and Republican anti-lockdowners might even accidentally once have said anything sensible.

My own view is that it’s still most likely that is the basic scenario here (obviously with lots of small conspiracies involving rich individuals and corporate interests, campaigning groups, and political lobbies all trying to push things their way, as usual). It might sound implausible if you formerly had any respect for the honesty, wisdom and competence of our media and of our political, social and technical elite classes in general, but so imo is the other view – that there is some hitherto unevidenced level of human competence that could organise such a global campaign without cocking it all up.

If you want the early “historian’s view” of the details of how the key event from our (UK’s) pov went, I would highly recommend listening to David Starkey’s description of how the Johnson government of buffoons was panicked into the catastrophic lockdown decision in March. Much of what we face now flowed from that key point:

David Starkey: Covid-19 — Britain’s Disastrous Response Will Have Devastating Consequences

72675 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Mark, #1106 of 1309 🔗

absolutely! well put.

72346 Dan Clarke, 2, #1107 of 1309 🔗

It seems that Boris meant his remark ‘(expletive) business’ and intends to protect the banks and hedge fund friends with a hard or no deal Brexit

72348 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 13, #1108 of 1309 🔗

Does anyone feel the schools situation will make or break the current impasse? Johnson and Williamson have said that schools will return in September without fail.
If they don’t and they have mislead us all then I suspect that is when the masses will begin to realise they have been had.

72350 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to hotrod, 2, #1109 of 1309 🔗

You could be right…

72354 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to hotrod, 12, #1110 of 1309 🔗

Gosh, I don’t know. We’ve had unnecessary lockdown extensions, quarantine, no quarantine, quarantine again at the last minute, talk of a European second wave, mask wearing, etc. all in the last week or so and no one is saying anything! I truly despair. They have been misleading us since March and no one bats an eyelid, the opposition is on board and so is the media. I see no end to this madness anytime soon, they’ll bring in mask wearing outdoors and in schools next, I’m fairly sure of it.

72356 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to hotrod, 14, #1111 of 1309 🔗

They’ll just lock the rest of us down tighter to reopen them, given what Whitty has said. Quite why the U.K. is such a special case when so many other countries have reopened or never even closed schools in the first place is beyond me.

72357 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to hotrod, 9, #1112 of 1309 🔗

They could cover up that situation with more fabricated out breaks and more project fear – the public lap that shite up – the population doesn’t need much of an excuse to sanction further national self destruction..

72576 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to arfurmo, #1114 of 1309 🔗

SAGE is the virus

72360 DRW, 3, #1115 of 1309 🔗

Comment on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/comments/i18rnl/coronavirus_cases_rise_54_in_mainland_france_in_a/fzwe8l6/

“It’s all humbug designed to keep the French scared and obedient as the government fears an uprising in Autumn when reality hits. Cases are rising because there is mass testing going on, and in areas that were saved until now.”

It’s about France but I expect the first sentence applies to the UK too.

72370 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #1117 of 1309 🔗

people I know just won’t read all that, is there an ‘idiots summary’?

72393 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1118 of 1309 🔗

and that is the whole problem 🙄

72411 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1119 of 1309 🔗

unfortunately true, need to keep info for ‘people I know’ – simple stupid

I don’t know anyone who knows what IFR means

Saying less than 6 people out of a thousand who catch the cough may die but they are generally frail elderly and/or extremely ill with other severe health problems and would most likely have died in the near future without covid – bit more of a mouthful but slightly more recognition of understanding

72402 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1120 of 1309 🔗

From Table 1: Current Best estimate:- Infection Fatality Ratio, Overall: 0.0065. That’s pretty much all that the ‘idiot summary’ needs to have.

72432 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 1, #1121 of 1309 🔗

Also worth noting that this is in line with the sort of figures that the ‘contrarians’ were predicting as more data became available.

… which underlines the fact that those serious scientists largely *excluded* by the MSM are the ones who have had the track record on accuracy, whilst the government machine has been spouting fear bollocks.

72450 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, 2, #1122 of 1309 🔗

I’ve actually sent a FOI request to the ONS yesterday asking them to deconflate U07.1 and U07.2 mortality figures, we’ll see what they come back with.

72549 ▶▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to RickH, #1123 of 1309 🔗

‘fear bollocks’ – good phrase!

72374 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Winston Smith, #1124 of 1309 🔗

Yeah, what does it mean exactly? Are they finally admitting that the IFR is 0.1%?

72388 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Moomin, #1125 of 1309 🔗


72410 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1126 of 1309 🔗

Not 0.0065%. The RATIO is 0.0065, so as a percentage that’s 0.65%

72397 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Moomin, 2, #1127 of 1309 🔗

No, based on their scenarios, they consider the likely IFR to be 0.65%, best scenario 0.5%.

It’s an estimate based on very imperfect data, but to me 2 things stand out.

  1. How little attention has been given to the massive change from 3% to 5% estimate in the early days to this far far lower figure.
  2. The fact that their estimate is still uncomfortably high, just about high enough to warrant some sort of unusual response.

I’m sure the final IFR is going to be much lower but that fact will also get completely smothered.

72465 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to stewart, #1128 of 1309 🔗

Seems to me the whole situation is complicated dramatically by pre-existing immunity. If we take 50k as a round figure for current UK covid deaths just for ease of calculation, and an ifr of 0.65% that suggests only about a tenth of the population has been infected and we could in theory have up to the fabled half a million or so deaths if the disease is not locked down (accepting the panickers’ belief in the efficacy of lockdown for the sake of argument here).

But if, as is currently looking likely, 70-80% of the population are immune due mostly to previous exposure to other coronaviruses (other colds), the same ifr would suggest we’ve already had around half or so of all the theoretically possible deaths and herd immunity effects mean most of the remaining vulnerable will never be exposed to it anyway (at least until we get a seasonal transmission uptick as usual in winter – nothing to crash society over).

I might have dropped the odd zero in that back of envelope stuff, but broadly I think it’s correct – the ifr is a lot less significant than when we were assuming that the whole population was vulnerable. Still important for propaganda purposes, of course, because it will be used by liars to promote the fear agenda.

72509 ▶▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark, #1129 of 1309 🔗

Agree. I also believe they are overstating the IFR, even the figure they have reduced dramatically from the original wildly inaccurate figure.

72376 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Winston Smith, 1, #1130 of 1309 🔗

Looked at your link. It has a masthead saying: “Wear a Mask:Protect Others” I thought it was to protect oneself? – or at least equally to protect oneself. So we’re all lepers? Logically we should never be seen without one.

72390 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1131 of 1309 🔗

Read the article

72372 JohnB, replying to JohnB, #1132 of 1309 🔗

Do we know whether the Daily Cases of COVID-19 that are announce by the Gov contain the Pillar 3 & Pillar 4 tests that are looking for Antibodies to see if people have previously had COVID-19, or do these Cases just show Pillar 1 & Pillar 2 test?

72378 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, #1133 of 1309 🔗

I’ve found it now, it’s just Pillar 1 & Pillar 2 tests.

All 4 Nations provide data based on tests carried out in NHS (and PHE) laboratories (‘pillar 1’ of the Government’s mass testing programme) and testing by commercial partners (‘pillar 2’ of the mass-testing programme).

72377 Moomin, 2, #1134 of 1309 🔗

Hi – am reposting this from earlier – any ideas?:

Hi, does anyone know how many new testing stations/how much extra testing was undertaken in Bradford in the last few weeks?
According to this:
There have been hardly any cases in week 30.

72383 NickR, replying to NickR, 7, #1135 of 1309 🔗

I just heard on the BBC news 120 new deaths for yesterday. I looked on the NHS data set and see the following. 9 deaths of people with Covid & another 5 suspected. All over 60, so that’s an average of fewer than 5 a day. I assume the BBC data is referring to back filled data of people who died months ago. Who is making these editorial decisions? What’s going on? It’s all public domain stuff https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/

72399 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to NickR, 2, #1136 of 1309 🔗

Really recommend you complain to the BBC, it’s a quick online form. When they send you a rubbish fobbing off, complain again, using your case number, when that comes back you can then escalate it. Also complain to IPSO. Rules 1 of IPSO is ‘accuracy’. We just have to keep haranguing them as best we can, like a million little bee stings.

72427 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, #1137 of 1309 🔗

I would strongly recommend keeping tabs on the Oxford CEBM site for accurate data.

They are currently updating the same page – so the date on their ‘Covid’ listings is a bit misleading.

But their data is a factual rebuttal of the misleading impression generated in the MSM.



72444 ▶▶ NickR, replying to NickR, #1138 of 1309 🔗

Thanks, that’s very useful.

72488 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to NickR, #1139 of 1309 🔗

Are you not looking at a table just giving deaths in hospitals? I can’t fathom it.

72384 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 11, #1140 of 1309 🔗

OK, so we returned from six days in Spain from an area that had much lower infection rates than the U.K. I expected to be stopped at the airport on arrival home and given a stern warning about quarantine or handed a paper with a long list of instructions or even, as the Welshman next to me on the plane received, a text message (his was from PHW) telling me to self isolate. Nothing. Admittedly it was announced by the cabin crew but was everyone listening? The guy at border control just said self isolate as best you can, after taking a perfunctory glance at the health forms on our phones.

I’m wondering:

  1. Is this because we’re pensioners and therefore more likely to follow advice (not)/ won’t have to go to work etc?
  2. They knew we had flown from an area with the lowest of the low infection rates compared with the U.K. and where everyone (except us ) was masked up?
  3. They know that this quarantine lark is unenforceable and are just paying lip service to show that they are doing something about it?
  4. Matt Hancock is totally incompetent (see my BBC breakfast post yesterday)

Vote now.

72389 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Margaret, 4, #1141 of 1309 🔗

3 + 4

72396 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1142 of 1309 🔗

Yup 3 and 4

72483 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to bluemoon, 1, #1143 of 1309 🔗

3 and 4

72847 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Margaret, #1144 of 1309 🔗

1, 3 and 4
if you’re elderly and or BAME, you really won’t get bothered.

72387 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 14, #1145 of 1309 🔗

Question, just thinking about the commenter who kicked his local hospital’s butt by slamming them with the actual law, rules and their duties. Ditto the chap who gave short shrift to his local shopping village by giving them the actual rules on retail. The same would surely apply to schools, old folks home and visiting, etc etc etc.

I’ve read some stuff about environmental health and food businesses and they slapping them with all sorts of prohibitive rules that are choking their business, ditto HSE. Is any of this stuff binding? I read something about a hair dresser who went to war with a local authority who had to concede she doesn’t have to do a damn thing. All this info is scattered and not in one place.

I assume, with lets say GPs, they are still subject to risk assessments, equality impact assessments and Public Sector Equality Duty? I assume they still have to comply with their insurance, and all other bits of legislation.

I’ve had some experience with a women’s rights thing where if enough people write to their local authority, or whatever, they have to act, because they are not following the rules. Sounds boring but sufficiently terrifying letters do actually get people to shift.

My mum heard something on the radio where a young woman had to have stitches for a tear during childbirth, she was discharged home, whereupon the wound became infected. Called her GP for an appointment, and the receptionist told her to text a picture of her vagina to the GP practice!!!!

That is not risk assessed, that probably falls foul of GDPR, that is a massive invasion of privacy, it’s not secure, it doesn’t protect her privacy and dignity, which is a legal right, just imagine if that got on the internet, that probably falls foul of Pregnancy and Maternity discrimination in the equality act, as well as discrimination under ‘sex’.

I reckon we could do with a library of template letters, properly written, with an expert for each and legally checked and we all just fire them off and get our overlords to start admitting that ‘guidance’ isn’t acceptable.

Another big area would be child safeguarding, I’m hearing some awful things about how little at risk kids are being checked.

If, as I’m reading and we’re hearing, the gov wriggled out of the Dolan case by saying, ‘we never instructed, it was a recommendation’ then surely the weight of what they are in fact meant to be doing wins. The website Law or Fiction is good for this, they are fact checking all this (in the absence of Liberty doing anything but a half hearted petition).

There must be one expert dissident we can find for each area, schools, doctors, hospitals, care homes, child safeguarding etc?

Reason I ask, my dad’s forgetfulness has gone off a ski jump, fed up I got him a phone consult with a Harley St specialist, who was appalled, and wants GP to do some more tests, GP won’t see him. My dad is rubbish at technology, and needs to be properly supported. There must be a way to make my GP actually do their job?


PS I’m not using the forum on this site, is anyone else? This might be one of those discussions that might be better as a thread, as this comment’s going to vanish with today’s update.

72400 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to BecJT, 2, #1146 of 1309 🔗

Excellent suggestion. I’ve (somewhat lazily) been waiting for this to be done. I never fired off Simon Dolan’s template letter to MPs as it had spelling mistakes and just read as a bit too emotive and wishy-washy. The law is very much on our side. We need to be using it to our advantage. There are GPs (Peter Thompson), AMHPs (Azoumi) etc on here.

72408 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tom Blackburn, 5, #1147 of 1309 🔗

I’m going to write to Toby, I think we almost need to pull together all the individual campaigns into one coalition, that way they could campaign individually, but also collectively and share resources.

The two things I’ve been involved in, one was where in equality and diversity policies, local authorities were missing off the ‘sex’ characteristic, and misrepresenting the law for ‘gender reassisgnment’ and saying all kinds of bonkers stuff about single sex services (protected in law).

The other was local authority ‘tool kits’ for schools on transgender equality, where they were recommending gender neutral loos, which are in fact illegal for children over the age of 8. Some of the recommendations they were pumping out where contrary to the law and safeguarding (letting teenage boys into the girls showers, changing and PE classes on some erroneous guff about inclusion if said penis owner, said he was a girl).

You’d be shocked at what goes on, I’d imagine now, say with GPs, they are making loads of money with no patients and are currently thinking they don’t want the goose that lays the Golden Egg to stop. I suspect if we looked hard enough, they have absolutely no right to withdraw care.

72454 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to BecJT, #1148 of 1309 🔗

Part (most) of the problem comes from these hastily written laws which seem to be a catch-all to cover every wacky idea under the sun, in the name of ‘public health’. Hence why Hancock is in his element as health now stretches from seeing your Mum to street cleaning.

I know in social care, many of the statutory duties (to meet needs) contained in the Care Act were changed to statutory powers (to meet needs) with Care Act Easements.

Subtle but massive difference.

72461 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Tom Blackburn, 1, #1149 of 1309 🔗

I fired off Dolan’s letter to my MP with considerable edits to make it personal over two weeks ago and never got a reply. Is there a way to make MPs do their job as well? I would have thought the thing about Bec’s dad and his GP was actionable. Only I don’t have the qualifications to make the calls.

72469 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Bella, 1, #1150 of 1309 🔗


Democracy has been suspended.

72484 ▶▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Bella, #1151 of 1309 🔗

It has to be contact with the GMC surely?

72395 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, #1152 of 1309 🔗

I know it’s rt.com but ell, well, well:


Not totally unexpected.

72426 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1153 of 1309 🔗

RT is a pretty useful news, opinion and analysis source. Overall it’s not much better or worse in terms of bias and honesty than the BBC and other US sphere media, and because its biases are in different areas and directions it’s a great balancer for US sphere based folk.

Overall, I’d say someone in the UK who watches RT and Al Jazeera/Press TV together with other UK media will have a much more accurate knowledge and understanding of what is going on around the world than someone who relies completely on the BBC, which is profoundly dishonest and systematically biased on foreign affairs especially.

I haven’t seen its coronapanic coverage. I imagine given the Russian response it’s as bad as most of the rest of the world’s media.

72438 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Mark, #1154 of 1309 🔗

Agree. I knew when Tony Blair banned Al Jazeera from Downing Street Lobby meetings it was a worthy news source. Husband also watches NHK.

72414 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 3, #1156 of 1309 🔗


  • Other: Personal freedom message
  • 1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message about how COVID-19 is limiting people’s personal freedom and by working together to get enough people vaccinated society can preserve its personal freedom.
  • Other: Economic freedom message
  • 1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message about how COVID-19 is limiting peoples’s economic freedom and by working together to get enough people vaccinated society can preserve its economic freedom.
  • Other: Self-interest message
  • 1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message that COVID-19 presents a real danger to one’s health, even if one is young and healthy. Getting vaccinated against COVID-19 is the best way to prevent oneself from getting sick.
  • Other: Community interest message
  • 1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this intervention, which is a message about the dangers of COVID-19 to the health of loved ones. The more people who get vaccinated against COVID-19, the lower the risk that one’s loved ones will get sick. Society must work together and all get vaccinated.
  • Other: Economic benefit message
  • 1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this group, which is a message about how COVID-19 is wreaking havoc on the economy and the only way to strengthen the economy is to work together to get enough people vaccinated.
  • Other: Guilt message
  • 1/15 of the sample will be assigned to this message. The message is about the danger that COVID-19 presents to the health of one’s family and community. The best way to protect them is by getting vaccinated and society must work together to get enough people vaccinated. Then it asks the participant to imagine the guilt they will feel if they don’t get vaccinated and spread the disease.
72435 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to BecJT, #1157 of 1309 🔗

BecJT, thanks for posting this. Had a quick scan through as I am about to do something else. Scary beyond belief. This is the sort of stuff Susan Michie is doing (for SAGE and Also-ran SAGE). Everyone needs to know about this!

72418 Nobody2020, 5, #1158 of 1309 🔗

I was hoping to see some excess death data for Belarus. Seems doing next to nothing is as effective as doing something:

Zol Neveri – Belarus just let the virus run its course. Belarus, which took the least action against Covid19 of all European countries and did not even cancel major events like FOOTBALL MATCHES.This is interesting. No lockdown. No excess deaths. Where are the mass graves?


72422 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1159 of 1309 🔗

We often hear that Sweden had way more COVID deaths than her neighbours with little context. Here is a comparison of all cause mortality between the Nordics courtesy of Harald@HaraldofW :


72424 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1160 of 1309 🔗

And comparison with previous years. Basically if they relabeled the cause of death there would be nothing to see.

72439 ▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1161 of 1309 🔗

Wow! I knew Sweden was on par with their own normal, but interesting to see that. Could it be that Sweden fell victim to the same ‘attribute everything to covid’ scam that all the ‘worst hit’ countries have!?

72445 ▶▶▶▶ stewart, replying to Mark II, 1, #1162 of 1309 🔗

They are open about the fact that they count everybody who dies and tests positively for the virus. Anders Tegnell has explained it clearly in several of his interviews.

72453 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to stewart, #1163 of 1309 🔗

We are less open, but it’s known if you look. I don’t get why we would all be recording it like this tho…

72449 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Mark II, #1164 of 1309 🔗

Something definitely caused people to die in a short space of time, there’s no doubt of that. However, the way we’ve always looked at death is the impact over time. These graphs show that Sweden’s 6k odd deaths are not remarkable at all when looked at over time which is what we’ve always done as far as I know.

72462 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark II, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1165 of 1309 🔗

For sure.. My hunch tho is that we would have seen a much smaller number had the public not succumbed to mass panic and had hospitals not been closed to most people and doctors. The more deaths attributed to covid the more panic and lockdown spread and the more needless deaths occurred. My sceptics hunch

72542 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Mark II, #1166 of 1309 🔗

Agree completely, people frightened to death plus sudden change of routine for oldies ‘in the zone’ finished them off.

72543 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, #1167 of 1309 🔗

Even in this country, the mirage is present. If you analyse ‘All-Cause’ mortality (adjusted for population) for 27 years, you find two things for the last ‘infection season’ :

  1. That mortality was only eighth highest for that period. In a longer timescale, people of 70 and over will have lived through a dozen or more worse epidemics, without any imposed nonsense.
  2. 2018/19 was a season of exceptionally low mortality. If deaths are averaged over that season and the last – guess what?

Indeed – the mortality for the two years is around the median/mean for the last 27! Don’t panic, Corporal Jones – many of the vulnerable actually experienced a year of life longer than might have been predicted on average.

72530 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1168 of 1309 🔗

Yes. The ‘In Proportion’ website has an interesting article of the same subject :


72428 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 8, #1169 of 1309 🔗

It must be something in the air, I suddenly feel a twinge of optimism, to my mind the editorial in today’s Telegraph was starting to try and nudge people out of their Covid safety cocoon and some other media have been putting out a few slightly challenging articles. Early days but I feel in a glass half full mood.

Weekly deaths are down, serious hospital cases are down and so the only thing driving this current nonsense are the dodgy pillar 2 test results from the drive in test centres. A bit like looking for grains of sand on the beach ‘goodness gracious we have found some! I feel the media as generally non scientists are reluctant to challenge this testing business but somehow this needs challenging. Otherwise this testing system is just like a giant exercise in perpetual self flagellation.

72431 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Steve Martindale, 5, #1170 of 1309 🔗

It’s basically like testing for life in live people. (Because most of us will have some interaction a coronavirus in the past six months and the test is finding any coronavirus not THE coronavirus)

Completely batshit crazy.

72470 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Farinances, 4, #1171 of 1309 🔗

I’m not sure that’s the problem. It would be unlikely to find virus fragments from that long ago. And anyway, if you had a coronavirus in the last 6 months the chances are it probably was Covid as that was the main one doing the rounds.

And anyway they’re only finding a tiny percentage of tests coming back positive but as you say most people probably had a cold in the last six months (or around half, quite a lot anyway).

It’s just that Covid prevalence is now so low that you need an extremely specific test to actually find it. So a large and unknown proportion of the results will be false positives (probably the majority of them).

If you test positive you almost certainly don’t have Covid, even more so if you’re asymptomatic. And this is true even if you believe the test is an extremely accurate test by the standards of medical tests generally.

Of course a few people do have Covid but so what. It’s almost impossible to find them and nothing you can do about it.

72481 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to guy153, #1172 of 1309 🔗

Contradicting yourself there, guy.

A cold is a coronavirus!

72850 ▶▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Nick Rose, #1173 of 1309 🔗

One of the cold virus types is Coronavirus c. 30% of them. Rhinovirus is another common type.

72487 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to guy153, 2, #1174 of 1309 🔗

I think they reckon that the Covid RNA-PCR test can amplify non infectious RNA fragments from people who recovered from the disease upto 3 Months ago. As far as I can see it is now only these pillar 2 test results that are driving this crazy circus along. Listening to freebie Spotify you get a lot of Covid testing adverts, they are obviously keen to keep this Covid testing bandwagon rolling along. In my view you should at all costs avoid feeding the Covid testing monster.

72528 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 2, #1175 of 1309 🔗

if you had a coronavirus in the last 6 months the chances are it probably was Covid as that was the main one doing the rounds.”

Actually – the foundation data is so irrevocably screwed that we don’t even know that.

72691 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to guy153, #1176 of 1309 🔗

This is exploding my tiny head. What happens if a bad cold starts doing the rounds, does that mean that all the pillar two data will show Covid-19 positives in a surge when in fact it is a cold?

72437 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Steve Martindale, 4, #1177 of 1309 🔗

And as private eye raised, pillar 2 contracts given to companies heavily invested in vaccine dev, and by extension therefore invested in the farce continuing.

72442 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #1178 of 1309 🔗

You don’t need to be a scientist to ask basic questions.

Science is a method. Thinking and asking questions is what everyone should do.

72525 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, #1179 of 1309 🔗

Yes. ‘Following the Science’ – if it means anything is about following the methodology of critical and sceptical questioning.

Censoring information is what non-science does … which means what we all know to be true – that the government is doing the very opposite.

72463 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Martindale, #1180 of 1309 🔗

I wish I shared your optimism at the moment.

72429 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 12, #1181 of 1309 🔗

From the Daily Mail:

Boris Johnson’s call for police to enforce the mandatory wearing of masks in indoor areas was yesterday branded ‘bonkers’ by officers.
The PM vowed a ‘greater police presence’ after it emerged officers fined just 13 people for not wearing face coverings on public transport in a two-week period last month.
He said masks musts be worn in galleries, cinemas and places of worship, as well as in shops and on trains and buses, while insisting the police will have to ensure the rules are being followed.
However, Ken Marsh, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, which represents rank and file officers, told MailOnline the new policy was ‘impossible’ to enforce.
He said: ‘They want us to enforce the new rules in these other places now, but next door there might be a pub or a restaurant where people don’t have to wear a mask.
‘It doesn’t make any sense, it’s absolutely bonkers.
‘How do they want us to enforce it in places of worship? It’s impossible. We’re just veering from one thing to another, almost seemingly on an hourly basis, and it always ends up becoming the police’s problem.
‘If you go into big stores, you might see people with masks on but in the little high street shops, people just wander in and out without them and it’ll be the same with this.
‘We can’t enforce that. It has to be a collective social effort, we have to do this all together. They are losing the will of the police and the public in terms of what they are expecting from us.
‘Rank and file officers will be wondering if they are just being set up to get abuse. We’ve got demonstrations all over London this weekend but as far as I’m aware you’re still not allowed to meet in groups of more than 30.

72434 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Mr Dee, 12, #1182 of 1309 🔗

Damn, he came so close to saying mask laws were stupid, then started bleating that it ‘has to be a collective social effort’. Annoying, but you could sense he is close to a realisation that it’s just a dumb thing to ask.

72620 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mark II, #1183 of 1309 🔗

Read “I think this is bullshit and so do all my colleagues but I have to say something placatory so Commandant Dick puts a gold star on today’s communique”

72467 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Mr Dee, 5, #1184 of 1309 🔗

It has to be a collective social effort” – that phrase is worrying. It is inviting vigilantism on a mass scale.

72503 ▶▶ Liberty B, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1185 of 1309 🔗

Always relieved each time I see the police say mask-wearing, whatever, is unenforceable. I’m hoping this careful wording covers up the fact that they have a common-sense objection as well as a technical one. I can hope. Don’t spoil my delusion because sometimes all this gets too much!

72628 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Mr Dee, #1186 of 1309 🔗

I spoke to a police officer yesterday in my home town (it is a large town and has a large police station. Times I’ve seen a police car in my 30+ years of living here or visiting regularly? Maybe 5. 4 of them bombing down to the M1, 1 of them called to a house party I was at 😂
This town used to have the lowest crime rate in West Yorkshire and probably still does (now if you can be arsed you know where I’m from) and is full of very law abiding, sensible salt of the earth folk (mainly working and lower middle class).
Anyway I went to school with this guy so he wouldn’t hold back. He knows I’m no longer a journalist in the ‘hunter v. gatekeeper’ sense.
When asked what the police are doing about the latest muzzle diktat and any other possible local lockdown regulations he simply shrugged and said “Not much”.
A ringing endorsement from your wannabe covifascism enforcement crew there, Doris.

72430 Rabbit, 1, #1187 of 1309 🔗

Just in case this hasn’t been posted before:


72441 Sam Vimes, 8, #1188 of 1309 🔗

I like the new slogan, Hands, Knees and BoompsaDaisy. It’s really easy to remember and it’s a good tune. All my pals here at nursery like it, too. Well done, Boris. That’s communication.

72443 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 26, #1189 of 1309 🔗

So my bad feeling the other day about things to come was 100% correct.

I just can’t get my head around all this. Whitty saying that for schools to go back, we might (that means we will, I’ve learned that by now) have to sacrifice seeing family and friends, presumably forever more, or until we agree to be jabbed with a needle. How have things got to this stage, where they can ban human contact and people will happily accept it? Will the sheep really be happy not to see another human being, grandchildren, elderly parents etc until next summer at the earliest? How can a government do this to its people and think that it’s protecting us? I JUST DON’T GET IT!!

72452 ▶▶ stewart, replying to A. Contrarian, 14, #1190 of 1309 🔗

Question: What f***ing right does Whitty have to tell people who they can see and who they can’t?

72476 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to stewart, 4, #1191 of 1309 🔗

I’ve been asking myself the same question since March… The answer is still the same. None. But he does it anyway.

72517 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to stewart, 3, #1192 of 1309 🔗

He must be a really sad bastard.

72568 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to stewart, 1, #1193 of 1309 🔗

NONE, he has no right, and I’m hoping with legal clarification there’s no law either.

72468 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #1194 of 1309 🔗

Just ignore them. Completely ignore them.

72474 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1195 of 1309 🔗

Bloody impossible when they have this much control over our lives. If they do lock us down again I will still see a sceptical friend or two, for the sake of my home educated 6-year-old, but most people I know will hunker down and look on in horror at the rule breakers…

72477 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #1196 of 1309 🔗

I’m definitely not going back into lockdown. I pity anybody who tries to make me do otherwise.

72516 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #1197 of 1309 🔗

Good advice. But many don’t and won’t.

72485 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to A. Contrarian, 9, #1198 of 1309 🔗

SACRIFICE??? Who the fk does he think he is? I saw my son last week for the first time in nearly SEVEN MONTHS and this canute thinks he is going to control my life again? And no I won’t take the vaccine….not even to see my family. I’m going to be stronger than that. We’re a small family, but I’m buggared if I will bow down to manipulation.

72491 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to thedarkhorse, 5, #1199 of 1309 🔗

My brain is struggling to comprehend all this at the moment, how the UK has got to this stage in such a short time, and how people can accept someone telling them whether or not they are allowed to see their own families. Words fail me.

72521 ▶▶▶▶ Richard, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #1200 of 1309 🔗

It’s disgusting – just had all my family together for great week on the coast – but took some convincing my 75 year old parents that they would be ok. Am not suspending their access to their grandchild for anyone again. I think the problem is too remote for people at the moment – they know of vaguely one person who had it badly. Just wait until the jobs toll really starts and it’s houses being lost very where perhaps then the madness will be put into perspective.

72617 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #1201 of 1309 🔗

Never fear. People are starting to ignore Whitless. I think they wheeled him out instead of Wankcock because they know people think he is full of shit. But newsflash, HMG, we think you’re ALL full of shit, and that now includes peddlers of The Science.

72622 ▶▶ CarrieAH, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #1202 of 1309 🔗

Well, I am not giving up anything anymore. I am now going to be seeing the friends I wish, I will be doing precisely what I do as normal, except with the addition of a bit of common sense. I am certainly not going to go back to being lonely and suicidal not being able to see friends, just because children are going back to school. I suggest Whitty reboots his computer modelling and tries again to come up with something properly normal.

72448 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, 24, #1203 of 1309 🔗

How much longer are we going to have to live in a one-party State? Everything that is done to us is unchallenged. All technocrats that make the policy for the undereducated rulers seem to self-certify their incompetences. This is worse than the EU. We are now being threatened with the army if we don’t behave. We are threatened if we go abroad and shouted at if we consequently go to the beach at home, and are now told we have been given too many sweets, and have ‘reached the limit’ of freedoms. Unless you are one of the boat people, of course.

Well, fuck them all. Don’t they know what happens next? Sooner rather than later? I really thought a political opposition would have emerged by now, but if we can’t use democracy, then it only leaves one alternative, doesn’t it?

72493 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to James Leary #KBF, 8, #1204 of 1309 🔗

It does. And it’s going to end badly for some. It only needs one person to be tipped over the edge and do something quite physical and I reckon the floodgates could open. I fantasise about certain heads on spikes on a nightly basis. And I’m not kidding.

72550 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to HoMojo, #1205 of 1309 🔗

Don’t we all?

72459 A Heretic, #1206 of 1309 🔗

I’ve been in down to my corner shop for supplies. They’ve been operating 100% normally
throughout this nonsense.
Today there were four customers inside when I arrived and three more
came in while I was waiting. Not a single one had a mask.
I cannot express how thankful I am to both the shop staff and their customers for giving me a small moment of sanity in my day.

72464 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 12, #1207 of 1309 🔗

‘No one stops you’: shoppers’ attitudes to masks differ across UK

Some shopkeepers report wide compliance with coronavirus rules, but others say message is not getting across

Oh I think it is!!

72613 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1208 of 1309 🔗

Indeed, Guardian.

REALITY is getting across.

72471 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 6, #1209 of 1309 🔗

From another site -apologies if already posted

The ONS estimated that 35,700 people in England were infected with Covid-19 between July 20 and July 26, or one in 1,500 people. The week before, statisticians had calculated around 27,700 were infected, or about one in 2,000.

However, the ONS data has been jumping around wildly since surveillance testing began, ironically because cases in the community are so low. On June 25, cases were worse than they are now – at one in 1,100 – and a fortnight later had swung to one in 3,900.

The new calculation is based on just 59 people testing positive out of 116,026 swab tests (0.05 per cent). The previous week, just 45 people tested positive out of 114,674 (0.39 per cent). It means the tipping point for a northern lockdown may have rested on just 14 extra positive tests.

72478 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to arfurmo, 3, #1210 of 1309 🔗

The problem is, cases will probably be back down again in a week or two, as they would have been anyway without any interference, but the govt will blather on about local lockdowns and masks working, and we’ll get them all over again next time they find another 14 extra cases.

72492 ▶▶ stewart, replying to arfurmo, 4, #1211 of 1309 🔗

The government is promoting the illusion that it is “controlling the virus”.
And the extremely gullible British population are buying it.
A bit like a bunch of 5 years olds watching a crappy magic trick and being completely taken by it.

72567 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to stewart, #1212 of 1309 🔗

maybe the government sees the population as the virus

72496 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to arfurmo, 4, #1213 of 1309 🔗

In other words statistical noise well within in the range of 100% false positives

72497 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to arfurmo, 5, #1214 of 1309 🔗

Quoting the mayor of Leicester a couple of weeks back, who is on-the-ball enough to know when he is being had:

…the DPH asked for clarification as to whether the figures were a cause for concern and was told it was probably ‘a small numbers issue’

…with more testing now being done we will of course get more positives. As PHE pointed out themselves an – “apparent change may be associated with increasing testing … rather than a true increase in the number of new infections occurring”

1.The data is missing vital information to enable us to pinpoint if and where the virus is spreading
2. We need post code, ethnicity and workplace
3. We need negative test results if we are to have any context for the positive results.

…We must have negative results with the same information to identify local ‘positivity rates’.

…The only way we can really know the rate in the community is by random sampling. Then we can understand the level of infection and not just the figures for those who, for whatever reason, present themselves for testing.


It seems entirely possible that the North is seeing a tiny increase in a tiny number of positive test results, taken from people who have self-presented (i.e. not random), using tests with a false positive rate that the government themselves found to be a median of 2.3%!

72513 ▶▶ RickH, replying to arfurmo, 2, #1215 of 1309 🔗

Absolutely. I picked up this fact of weird numbers and grass-hopper changes in methodology a couple of weeks ago.

Of course – the other thing to be factored in is the underlying questions about the tests themselves – as the Norwegians have pointed out, at this sub-epidemic level of illness, the tests mean jack shit, anyway.

72519 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to arfurmo, 1, #1216 of 1309 🔗

These are Pillar 3 (Blood & Swabs) tests though, so this is testing for antibodies in blood tests and swabs to see if people have had it, not if they have got it now. When I had an antibody test I was told it takes 21 days after infection before antibodies are produced and can be detected. So how are they able to detect that people were infected between July 20 and July 26, when that is only 6-12 days ago and thus no antibodies should’ve been created yet.

72472 Kelly deacons, replying to Kelly deacons, 8, #1217 of 1309 🔗

Caught the front page of I think the Express.Big bold letters covering the whole page *OBEY THE RULES* or be locked down Boris says.Who the hell does this man think he is talking to?. Good God in heaven!!

72558 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Kelly deacons, 3, #1218 of 1309 🔗

Amazing that no politician or police “service” has ever had the gumption to manage this with actual crime and anti-social behaviour, going back to whenever.

72609 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Kelly deacons, 1, #1219 of 1309 🔗

I will obey nobody’s rules but my own and those of common decency*, Doris. Fuck off.

*I won’t wear a mask to ‘protect’ someone else but I will pick up the old lady who falls over in front of me because I am genuinely more concerned about her welfare than the muzzled goon hovering on the other side of the road.

72473 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 6, #1220 of 1309 🔗

Anyone think Covid is all Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics, that Sage is a Sect and that this Conservative government will turn the Army on the people?

72499 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #1221 of 1309 🔗

“Statistics” = “Sanity”

Don’t confuse lying and distortion of data with the real thing; the counter-arguments are all based on *real* data and *proper* statistics.

72475 Toby Pierides, replying to Toby Pierides, 9, #1222 of 1309 🔗

What I would like to know is why the MSM don’t make more of Whitty and Vallance’s big pharma connections. If a true indisputable smoking gun connection could be found between them and immunity ids etc that even rabid nappy wearers might not be able to ignore, we might be able to end this nonsense or at least damage their cause.

72479 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Toby Pierides, 5, #1223 of 1309 🔗

I suspect because big pharma are in cahoots with the MSM.

72608 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to DRW, 1, #1224 of 1309 🔗

Guess whose ‘philanthropic’ foundation funnels a considerable amount of funds into one particular BBC arm?

72625 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Farinances, #1225 of 1309 🔗

is there a source for this? have heard it before

72631 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to anon, 1, #1226 of 1309 🔗

“Significant donors included the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the UK Department for International Development (DFID), the European Commission, several UN agencies, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation , the Swedish International Development Cooperation Agency (SIDA) and the British Council.”
Of course, this is just one example.

72482 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Toby Pierides, 5, #1227 of 1309 🔗

Add it to the list of critical questions the MSM aren’t asking.
It’s a long list.

72545 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to stewart, 4, #1228 of 1309 🔗

Reproducing a list of questions ( I think posted earlier on this site – I’m sorry I can’t give credit to the original poster as I didn’t keep the name)

Copied these QUESTIONS from another discussion board (thanks Darzoum)

Why the concerted efforts to exaggerate fatalities?
Why the concerted efforts to suppress alternative, life-saving treatments?
Why the draconian measures to lockdown the world?
Why the unprecedented move to stop the world economy for a disease whose death rate is around 0.26%?
How did Neil Ferguson and the Imperial Model gain such influence?
Why the official indifference to how the Imperial Model could be so colossally wrong?
Why is the response so strangely consistent around the world?
Why instate the extreme social measures that are unproven to abate viral spread?
Why do the pandemic efforts satisfy long-held agenda items of Technocratic Globalism?
Why the nonstop propaganda effort from mainstream news sources to continually build-up the crisis?
Why the coordinated efforts to censor and shutdown legitimate alternative news sources?
Why the coordinated efforts to censor and shutdown legitimate, credentialed scientists and healthcare workers whose message deviates from orthodoxy?
Why does Bill Gates have such an oversized role in policy making?
Why are blockbuster revelations of lying and deceptions in reporting the COVID story met with indifference from media?
When did we decide Constitutional rights could be suspended for health safety reasons?
Why aren’t doctors and researcher successful in treating COVID patients with alternative therapies celebrated as heroes?
Why no deep investigation into Fauci’s diversion of funds to the Wuhan lab?
Why aren’t mainstream news sources exploring the timing and uncanny similarity of this pandemic to Event 201 and Rockefeller Foundation scenario games?
How could Fauci be so prescient that the incoming Trump administration would definitely face a pandemic crisis?
Most importantly, why are incompetents and proven liars still in charge?

72556 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Toby Pierides, 2, #1229 of 1309 🔗

Why are the MSM ignoring the worldwide evidence in favour of early HCQ as featured in this blog, with its massive decrease in death rate.
Loks like 80% of with Covid deaths in UK could have been delayed if HCQ had been prescribed early.
Is it corruption & ties with big Pharma / Billy Gates Gruff?

72486 Bella, replying to Bella, 19, #1230 of 1309 🔗

Here’s a little bit of good news. One of my local watering holes is a hotel near me with great facilities. When they first reopened on the 4th it was temperature checks, track and trace and all the staff masked up. Plus table service only. I refused to go in. Happy to report that three weeks later no checks, no track and trace, service at the bar and the general manager and assistant managers conspicuously unmasked. And none of the punters observing the anti-social distancing bollocks. (Bad news – beer gone up by 15%).

72489 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bella, 4, #1231 of 1309 🔗

Sounds like things are starting to get back to normal…

Expect an announcement soon from the Bozo the clown show to put a stop to that!! Damn that old normal

72559 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Bella, 2, #1232 of 1309 🔗

Second Wave will be all their fault (sarc).

73026 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Bella, #1233 of 1309 🔗

My local is totally normal, no QR codes, no name and address taking. We ordered at the bar before finding a table. I nearly hugged the barman!!

72501 mhcp, 27, #1234 of 1309 🔗

Just popped into Asda for a McDs. No issues with masks. I didn’t say anything nor was asked.

I’ve just realised why I am so against the tyranny of it all. I grew up with terrorism and emergency powers in Belfast. I grew up Catholic.

What with discrimination in jobs, the fact that my parents and family could not vote properly until 1970. The Marxist cause from the IRA (anyone in the way is a target). The response from Loyalists.

The way you had to watch what you say, wear and act in public to be indistinct. The overreaching sectarian police. The army checkpoints and suspicion.

I am glad it’s over.

But that feeling of being terrorised is back. So fuck you government. I pay your wages to have you get out of the way.

I will not be terrorised.

72505 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 9, #1235 of 1309 🔗

There has been some discussion on this site this morning about testing the law. Two food shops have refused to serve me because I was not wearing a mask. To be able to buy food must surely be a ‘human right’?

72510 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #1236 of 1309 🔗

Disability Discrimination, £9k fine plus damages if you can be bothered.

72512 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Ned of the Hills, 3, #1237 of 1309 🔗

Check out Claire Wills-Harrison on FB – she’s a lawyer involved with the Keep Britain Free campaign – she has some excellent templates for what to say when faced with this sort of behaviour. https://www.facebook.com/clare.wills1

72605 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Quernus, #1238 of 1309 🔗

Fantastic, was just saying this, we need a library of templates for all sorts of scenarios.

72624 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Quernus, #1239 of 1309 🔗

is there anything there concerning how to deal with employers and mask enforcement?

also anything for those of us who do not use fb?

thank you

72635 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to anon, #1240 of 1309 🔗

Yes, this is from law or fiction http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/time-to-blow-the-whistle-on-shops/ Talks about offices and other places of employment

72541 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to watashi, 2, #1243 of 1309 🔗

Print the toolkit off and deliver it to the managers of the two food shops in question. They are potentially in breach of the Equality Act (2010).

72561 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Ozzie, #1244 of 1309 🔗

would anyone know if I can give this to an over zealous employer?

72595 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to anon, 2, #1245 of 1309 🔗

Employment law is a different area, this is what I was saying down thread, we need toolkits on all these areas, stuff like work, GP practice refusing to see us, masks, social distancing etc etc. We really need to start fighting back with cogent, fact checked, legally sound stuff. I have a feeling from what I’ve read the HSE stuff for work is unenforceable but we need a one stop shop of templates we can all use. I’d email law or fiction and have a scoot at their updates?

72601 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, 2, #1246 of 1309 🔗

E.g. I found out yesterday, the ‘rule’ that people in hospital were not allowed visitors was never legal, the rules always were that if it were in the welfare or mental health interests of the patient, they could always have visitors. Think of all the people that died alone!! It’s stuff like that where we need to be on solid ground when we challenge stuff.

72621 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to BecJT, #1247 of 1309 🔗

OK thank you

72643 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to anon, #1248 of 1309 🔗

Replied to you down thread, found an employment fact sheet.

72720 ▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Ozzie, #1249 of 1309 🔗

Much tanks for the suggestion but I’m actually in Ireland at the moment.

72557 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to watashi, #1250 of 1309 🔗

I’ve got the pdf toolkit just in case, not remotely needed so far.

72506 p02099003, replying to p02099003, 13, #1251 of 1309 🔗

I’ll ask the same question as I asked on Malcolm Kendrick’s website
The comment yesterday suggesting that we’ve gone as far as we can to return to any sense of normality has ramped up the fear level. Wearing masks in more closed spaces. Can a healthy immune system not manage to deal with the virus, either the innate nor the adaptive immune system?
The big question is what can we do as individuals or as a group to overcome the inertia that has built up?
As individuals and as a society we cannot continue down this path of self destruction, economically, mentally or physically.
Anyone who is in the slightest sceptical even with valid data is considered a cherry picking, conspiracy theorist.

72532 ▶▶ Liberty B, replying to p02099003, 4, #1252 of 1309 🔗

About a couple of hundred comments ago I suggested we all leave a comment on Boris’s FB page. Obviously not read by him but if the several hundred (?) sceptics who read this left a polite, non-abusive message of disagreement with him all on the same day might break through – at least to the other people following him and leaving comments. I left my comment earlier this morning.

72554 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to p02099003, 2, #1253 of 1309 🔗

The only solution is for ‘awkward’ i.e. relevant questions to be asked of the people in charge. e.g. If an interviewer were to ask “What is the percentage positive rate for tests in the North of England?”. And then follow it up with “What is the false positive rate for the types of test being used in the North of England?”. “How long can RNA fragments last in the nose of a person who has been infected, and still give a positive test?”. Etc.

Even the most conformist BBC viewer might gasp at the implications.

72507 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1254 of 1309 🔗

R2 News 11 am. “pubs might need to be closed so that Schools can reopen in September”.
Some Professor at Exeter University Medical School.

72518 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to karenovirus, 9, #1255 of 1309 🔗

If that doesn’t trigger outrage from the pub owners and users, then we really are more stupid than I thought…

72547 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to thedarkhorse, 5, #1256 of 1309 🔗

Recent experience suggests this will establish again that we (nationally) really are more stupid than you thought.

72566 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #1257 of 1309 🔗

Pub owners ? What about the pub goers !

72579 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to thedarkhorse, 5, #1258 of 1309 🔗

Sadly, I think most people are. May I be the 94th person to re-quote George Carlin: “Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

72523 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to karenovirus, 6, #1259 of 1309 🔗

Is that because some teachers are spending too much time in pubs getting drunk?

72529 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to karenovirus, 5, #1260 of 1309 🔗

Is that because all the kids are at the pub?

72536 ▶▶ 4096, replying to karenovirus, 4, #1261 of 1309 🔗

Beginning to lose any hope for humanity. This is so diotically stupid on so many levels that I’m simply lost for words. How on earth do people like that get to be professors of medicine? Oh wait, probably because there is A LOT of unscientific bullshit in medicine, psychology and all these other dodgy branches of science (see e.g. J. Ioannidis’ paper ‘Why most publish scientific research is wrong’, or Stuart Ritchie’s new book).
When will this madness end?

72546 ▶▶▶ JASA, replying to 4096, 4, #1262 of 1309 🔗

Because a professorship is a position and not a qualification. The few sound academics that there are, generally don’t get to become professors in most subjects. I saw it a lot while in academia.

72581 ▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to JASA, 2, #1263 of 1309 🔗

I obtained a degree as a ‘mature student’ back in 2005. Most of the work took place at our dining room table once the kids were in bed. One of my ‘tutors’ was a ‘Doctor’ of something. Turns out that he entered the academic world at nursery school and never left. We had some very interesting ‘debates’ when discussing things like ‘industrial relations’ and other realities of the working world.

72553 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to karenovirus, 1, #1264 of 1309 🔗

No-one will be able to afford the pub soon, someone just commented on here that whilst their drinking establishment is almost back to old normal, prices have gone up by 15%

Even the public sector workers who have recently been told about a pay increase of uptown 3.1% are still going to feel a 15% rise in costs.

72584 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #1265 of 1309 🔗

I don’t know how our local pub is going on but not only has the beer gone up massively (£7.50 for 1.5 pints in NW England) but they refuse to take cash. They probably do T&T and temperatures as well. They deserve to go bust but probably won’t.

72594 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 2, #1266 of 1309 🔗

£5 a pint? Up here in the real world?? I’m feeling dizzy! Hie yourself to Wetherspoons, and cry out against those wicked institutions. Around £2 a pint for good beer and no coronacrap, just signs.
Until they shut em, of course (any day now).

73375 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Sam Vimes, #1267 of 1309 🔗

Blimey, when I started buying pints it was four for a quid, pound in my pocket is now 5% of that!

72597 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1268 of 1309 🔗

So we’re now in some sort of covid-risk tagteam?

Lock one down, let one go? Tag the kids in, tag the pubs out?

WTF is this. Honestly.

72524 ▶▶ Liberty B, replying to AMZ, 7, #1270 of 1309 🔗

Just watched it. Jaw-dropping. How is it the government isn’t being nailed to the wall with this stuff. It’s going on my FB even though my woke ‘friends’ will passively-aggressively patronise me or unfriend me.

72591 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to AMZ, 2, #1271 of 1309 🔗

I got kicked out of a health charity patient support facebook group for sharing that a couple of weeks ago, to try and counter the religious mask nazi shit going on, they said by sharing that I was going against ‘government opinion’. I’m not kidding, I said, that is the science, from Sage, and they said it was now ‘old’. I asked what science has changed, and they couldn’t answer.

72683 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 1, #1272 of 1309 🔗

by sharing that I was going against ‘government opinion’ .”

Still amazing to see just how conformist people become when they are scared.

I would doubt anyone’s honesty if he or she were to claim this whole coronapanic experience hasn’t been quite educational to them in that regard. I was always on the cynical side as far as conformism and dissent was concerned, but the scale a pace of this has been remarkable.

72526 TheBluePill, 21, #1273 of 1309 🔗

Went to a large outdoor food festival yesterday, don’t want to say where so as to avoid causing problems. Several hundred people, maybe as many as a thousand attended.
Ticket checks on the door included temperature checks but the staff didn’t even check the readout or even bother to aim it at people’s faces. All that they required was a beep. Had some T&T contact details (of a local MP) ready, but all they wanted at the door were first names!
Not a single muzzle seen all evening on either staff or customers. The only sign of abnormality was that the queues were more spaced out than usual.
Absolutely great event in total defiance of the madness.

72531 TyRade, replying to TyRade, 8, #1274 of 1309 🔗

I think supermarkets could go further to set the veiled, new normal, in-store atmosphere by pumping out sheep bleating music on a loop. To get into the mood, shoppers would be asked to ‘Baaaa’ loudly upon entry. Maybe, instead of hand sanitisers, a disinfectant dip at the exit?

72560 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to TyRade, 7, #1275 of 1309 🔗

Excellent ideas Ty…maybe also have a couple of collies roaming around biting the ankles of shoppers to make sure they keep to designated walkways…if it saves just one life it’s worth it.

72565 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to OKUK, 3, #1276 of 1309 🔗

Come by!

72874 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to OKUK, #1277 of 1309 🔗

Have to be muzzled though?

72563 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to TyRade, 7, #1278 of 1309 🔗

Was in Sainsbury’s yesterday and they had that ‘Stetford Wife’ atmosphere with a message every few minutes of how important it is in keeping distance etc, ending with ‘keeping everyone ‘safe’. I felt like throwing a tin of beans at the loudspeaker, I don’t need anyone to keep me safe, I’m a fucking grown up!


72577 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to T. Prince, 5, #1279 of 1309 🔗

At the “height” of this farce in late March / early April Morrisons took to turning half the store lights off, messages over the Tannoy, and half empty shelves it must have been just like shopping in East Berlin circa 1974.

Good to hear that Sainsburys are returning to the East for inspiration.

As we know, every little matters.

72555 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 6, #1280 of 1309 🔗

Although the government’s actions may seem incoherent in relation to the current real situation and ‘risks’ of the virus, they seem strangely coherent and consistent with a 10 year old ‘scenario planning’ Rockefeller Foundation paper ( “Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development” ) concerning a ‘hypothetical’ global pandemic….

Some excerpts:

During the pandemic, national leaders around the world flexed their authority and imposed airtight rules and restrictions, from the mandatory wearing of face masks to body-temperature checks at the entries to communal spaces like train stations and supermarkets.

The pandemic also had a deadly effect on economies: international mobility of both people and goods screeched to a halt, debilitating industries like tourism and breaking global supply chains. Even locally, normally bustling shops and office buildings sat empty for months, devoid of both employees and customers.

“a world of tighter top-down government control and more authoritarian leadership, with limited innovation and growing citizen pushback”


72564 ▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 4, #1281 of 1309 🔗

This quote from the same report has rather sinister undertones:

Scanners using advanced functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) technology become the norm at airports and other public areas to detect abnormal behavior that may indicate “antisocial intent.”

72569 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Humanity First, #1282 of 1309 🔗

You do not need to look that far into the past, New York, NY, October 2019 an event was run called “Event 201 – A global pandemic exercise”

Event 201

Our overlords tell us what is happening, we just need to see it.

72592 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #1283 of 1309 🔗

That’s a good point. All of this strengthens the notion that the current policies we are seeing are not the result of a incompetent/panicked set of leaders trying frantically to deal with a sudden emergency which keeps catching them off guard with its unpredictable trajectory. Rather, the steps and policies seem to have been formulated quite some time ago and are now simply being rolled out.

72570 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 6, #1284 of 1309 🔗

So, to milk this charade for all it’s worth, those Nightingale Hospitals, which were NEVER used at the peak of the pantomime, are being reopened. WE CAN SEE THE SCAM BORIS. Stop wasting even more millions to perpetuate this fantasy

72574 ▶▶ DRW, replying to T. Prince, 3, #1285 of 1309 🔗

Smoke and fucking mirrors.

72587 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to T. Prince, #1286 of 1309 🔗

Where did you see this, T?

73087 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to T. Prince, #1288 of 1309 🔗

Sounds like he’s trying to justify the deaths and the hysteria before the enquiry

72572 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #1289 of 1309 🔗

The German people from historical experience are very aware of creeping tyranny . Today we see the German people demonstrating in Berlin against the pseudo -medical police state .


72589 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Peter Thompson, #1290 of 1309 🔗

Thanks Peter. I have been looking for information on this.

72629 ▶▶ anon, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #1291 of 1309 🔗

this is awesome! watching now

72575 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 3, #1292 of 1309 🔗

“The Netherlands has no plans to make non-medical face masks compulsory because there is no scientific evidence to prove they work, government officials said on Wednesday.”

‘From a medical point of view, there is no reason to introduce a national requirement to wear masks. But mayors want local leeway to influence behaviour, and that is what we are now looking at.’


72578 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Humanity First, 6, #1293 of 1309 🔗

One needs to ask , where did the political pressure for wearing face nappies come from and who has been paying for it and for what purpose. Maybe Deborah Cohen could look into this

72582 ▶▶▶ Humanity First, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #1294 of 1309 🔗

A poster on teh Off Guardian site made this suggestion:

Jul 31, 2020 7:21 PM

The severity of the oppression in your country due to Covid is proportional to the role the US plays in running your country. It’s not always clear how ‘owned’ countries are by the empire, but a number have worked themselves free of late. Sweden among them. If you want to know what is going to happen in the UK, just look at the US and how they are reacting because it will be rolled out in the UK shortly after.
You didn’t think Europe was going to be allowed to recover from Covid, did you, when the US was on it’s back.

72590 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #1295 of 1309 🔗

It’s not a singular measure, but part of the overall psy-ops campaign to create a sheeple.

72623 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Peter Thompson, #1296 of 1309 🔗

Part of an international lobby movement pushing for masks.(?) Stranger still when you look at the aims (only go outside if you have to and wear a mask at all times) and the bios of the founding members….

72580 karenovirus, 6, #1297 of 1309 🔗

Quick break in a busy day, called into my favourite convenience store/PO.
Masked femal customer jumped in fright at my facial nakedness. 2 masked blokes in the counter queue, unmasked little old lady with a walker went straight to the front to spend an age dealing with her newspapers, bless.
Unmasked Royal Mail driver walked between the 2 masked blokes followed similarly by the DPD guy, not a murmer.

They all know it’s bollocks.

72583 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 6, #1298 of 1309 🔗

The only way to end this shit is to get rid of all notices, posters stickers and hand sanitiser as people will blindly follow whatever they are told.

As observed today, chap enters clubhouse sanitises his hands as ordered, goes to toilet, walks out of toilet sanitises hands, leaves clubhouse.

Me, blindly ignore all signs, go to toilet, wash hands, dry hands, throw away paper towel. Job done. Nice clean hands, not hands covered in piss and some mysterious gel.

If he was ordered to do 10 push ups and 20 star jumps he would probably do it.

Where is the logic, well we know the answer to that.

72586 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 2, #1299 of 1309 🔗

Just looked at Tripadvisor, to try and figure out what’s happening at a particular cafe. First review concluded with “very clean and I felt completely safe”. Ok, that’s not the cafe talking, but it’s enough to put me off. The sheep really are terrified, and thus are our worst enemy.

72593 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #1300 of 1309 🔗

I think I will actually view it as a badge of honour if someone gives me a lousy Tripadvisor review saying they didn’t feel ‘safe’. All I am getting is thanks for being so ‘normal’ and not the new bloody normal at that! If people want to feel ‘safe’ they can go to my competitors who are gloved and masked up!

Got to go, really busy 😉

72598 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 4, #1301 of 1309 🔗

Love your attitude. And ‘busy’ says so much. Keep it up.

72604 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #1302 of 1309 🔗

Ta, I have two notices:

‘No masks in here’ (the stasi can take that either way!)

and … ‘Please don’t use the hand gel’

God, I love being a contrarian!

72619 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to kh1485, 4, #1303 of 1309 🔗

‘Please don’t use the hand gel because it’s all part of the con and you’re more likely to develop a skin condition due to over use, than save just one life. Now stop crying, you’re making your muzzle soggy’

72669 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to kh1485, 2, #1304 of 1309 🔗

“Really busy” is good to hear.

72614 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1305 of 1309 🔗

‘Felt completely safe’. But this was probably a fucking GROWN UP writing this bed wetting drivel. Sorry for the language but patience is at minus 10 today

72585 Andrew, #1306 of 1309 🔗

Spoke to a couple of chaps who had been on the bedwetting side of the spectrum but were now having doubts. Still excusing initial lockdown but were asking “why were we having mandatory face masks at the height of summer?”, “why cases now and not hospital admissions and deaths?” They also had finally spotted that the Govt were not always being entirely truthful with figures! Sadly I had to tell them that the Govt were beyond the point of no return, with economy, education, health service and civil liberties destroyed they were not going to turn around now and say “sorry about all this but it seems we may have overreacted a bit”. The virus would continue to be a cataclysmic threat in theory even if in practise it was anything but.

72615 petgor, 2, #1307 of 1309 🔗

Like it or not Toby, the media of which you are a part, must take a very large share of the blame for this governments deplorable actions.

72746 NickR, 3, #1309 of 1309 🔗

The BBC today announced 120 Covid 19 deaths for yesterday. This is complete nonsense. This is the change in total deaths reported, most of these relate to weeks or months ago. NHS latest death data is available here https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/ it shows 14 deaths over the past 3 days in all England hospitals, which include 5 where there was no positive test! That’s fewer than 5 per day!
Look at Cambridge University Centre for Evidence Based Medicine & see their data on hospitalisations and deaths. It shows that the rate of decline of deaths and hospitalisations has been absolutely consistent regardless of the supposed increase in infections.


229 users made 1,293 comments today.

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