Last updated2020-08-01T18:50:28



72596 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #1 of 1304 🔗

With the future of our cities and our economy in peril, JOHN HUMPHRYS says: Let’s get to work on boom town Britain!


72616 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to HawkAnalyst, 20, #2 of 1304 🔗

John Humphrys—-made a career out of sneering at and insulting people. Please crawl back from whence you came!

72654 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #3 of 1304 🔗

Good to see you back at the top of the comments!

73346 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to HawkAnalyst, #4 of 1304 🔗

Boomtown Rats.

72599 kbeanie, 22, #5 of 1304 🔗

“Of the 137 Coronavirus-related Statutory Instruments laid before the UK Parliament which are subject to the negative procedure, 102 breach the 21-day rule.”


72600 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #6 of 1304 🔗
72655 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to HawkAnalyst, 12, #7 of 1304 🔗


72891 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to HawkAnalyst, 2, #8 of 1304 🔗

The underlying approach is too convoluted and the statistics too unreliable to come to any conclusion.

72602 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #9 of 1304 🔗
72638 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to HawkAnalyst, 10, #12 of 1304 🔗

HawkAnalyst the the article you are referencing refers to The USA NOT the UK, do not want to put any more fear into UK based folk.

72646 ▶▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #13 of 1304 🔗

Lucky we don’t have guns here!

72778 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to HawkAnalyst, 9, #14 of 1304 🔗

I’ve never really bought into the US rationale for mass gun ownership in the past. Now, if I had the opportunity, I’d be stockpiling guns and ammunition.

72894 ▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Chicot, 2, #15 of 1304 🔗

I understand that many are

72970 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Chicot, 3, #16 of 1304 🔗

Crossbows are legal though.

73456 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Steve, replying to JohnB, #17 of 1304 🔗

Yes. Interestingly, archery supplies, particularly crossbows went out out of stock very quickly at the beginning of lockdown.

73002 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Chicot, 3, #18 of 1304 🔗

With all the lunatics undermining, disbanding and defunding the police in the U.S., I’d but guns and ammo as well.

73315 ▶▶▶▶ nfw, replying to HawkAnalyst, 1, #19 of 1304 🔗

They would have been surrendered to “the authorities” long ago. And the snitches would have been having a marvellous time reporting owners to the SS, er, The Plod.

72606 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 15, #20 of 1304 🔗


‘Taboo’ herd immunity the only long-term solution to Covid-19, says expert

72627 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to HawkAnalyst, 16, #21 of 1304 🔗

We know. Ask Sweden :o))

72610 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #22 of 1304 🔗

Police officer injured in mass street brawl after force called to break up 200-strong Eid street party in Ilford


72652 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #23 of 1304 🔗

Yaaaaahhhsss go London

72671 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to HawkAnalyst, 25, #24 of 1304 🔗

Just to put this in context. Eid is a celebration, supposed to be a time for family and reflection and to give thanks. Imagine having the police come in to break up Christmas dinner. Imagine how you’d feel, and then how you’d resent having to feel that on that particular day

72841 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mhcp, 9, #25 of 1304 🔗

The violence broke out AFTER the police interfered.


Blame the curtain twitchers.

“While we appreciate this is a time of excitement and celebration for some, the sight and sound of such a large group was concerning and even distressing for others.”

72885 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 7, #26 of 1304 🔗

Yeah, well, the sight, sound and smell of my neighbours’ barbecue distresses me, but I don,t call the police to break it up.

73284 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #27 of 1304 🔗

Blame the curtain twitchers …

Who quickly metamorphosed into snitchers.

72611 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 56, #28 of 1304 🔗

One good thing to come out of this whole sorry mess is the fact that it is highlighting businesses that are the absolute pits when it comes to how they treat their customers.

Birds bakery, by first refusing to serve a ninety four year old who only had cash, and then by firing a member of staff who helped elderly people to get some food, have demonstrated to any decent person just how hard hearted, utterly disgraceful and indeed completely unacceptable their actions are.

I normally wouldn’t wish any business to go under in these horrible times but in the case of Birds I will make an exception. In fact, I would go further.and say that anyone who shops in these establishments and who is aware of their disgusting behaviour is just like Birds themselves—beneath contempt!

72645 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Harry hopkins, 18, #29 of 1304 🔗

Yep, ‘Boycott Birds’

72695 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Harry hopkins, 12, #30 of 1304 🔗

I used to buy Birds cakes occasionally. Never again.

72755 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Edward, 5, #31 of 1304 🔗

Pluck Birds!

72774 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to richard riewer, 6, #32 of 1304 🔗

Un-pheasant Pluckers

73091 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #33 of 1304 🔗

Well said. We ate there and bought our packed lunches there during a holiday in Derby last year. Never again.

72612 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #34 of 1304 🔗


How Did Sweden Flatten Its Curve Without a Lockdown?

72761 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to HawkAnalyst, 3, #35 of 1304 🔗


72626 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 50, #36 of 1304 🔗

Today’s update and news links give me hope. Incredulous MPs aghast at the Manchester lockdown, quite a number of anti-lockdown sentiment pieces in MSM. Anyone else feeling a turning point?

72630 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #37 of 1304 🔗


72644 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Nick Rose, 21, #38 of 1304 🔗

Yep, just a couple of anecdotes from a plague town here in Manchester.

Had our bathroom ripped out on Monday after a long wait. Plumber’s wife is in ‘at risk’ category so thought I would get a phone call from him postponing further work.No, he tipped up at 8, fully masked and carried on. Me ‘didn’t expect to see you today’ Him ‘it’s all a load of bollox, it’s all about Eid!’

Close friend and hysterical covid nut ‘well, we’re still going to look after grand kids while mother at work’

Not much but…..

72653 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to T. Prince, 6, #39 of 1304 🔗

Good stuff. May be invite the plumber to take his mask off if you haven’t already. He might be wearing to be polite to you.

72865 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Basics, 1, #40 of 1304 🔗

Had that conversation….

72665 ▶▶▶▶ Mike Collins, replying to T. Prince, 30, #41 of 1304 🔗

Off to my granddaughters 2nd birthday party today with all of her relatives and grandparents. Ignore the bed wetters and get on with your life. Lots of Tory MP’s from the North are starting to put pressure on Hancock and Co. E-mail them and tell them your thoughts. I feel we’ve reached a tipping point, it’s time to fight back before we’re all living on benefits.

72867 ▶▶▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Mike Collins, 3, #42 of 1304 🔗

I feel a lot better today Mike after reading posts like yours I did email my local MP (and member of 1922 Committee) a few weeks ago with some…..facts and figures. No reply I’m afraid

73136 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to T. Prince, #43 of 1304 🔗

They don’t work for us anymore, T. Prince.

72889 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 7, #44 of 1304 🔗

It’s a lot.
It’s defiance of tyranny and oppression.
It’s caring fir your family.
It’s the right thing to do.

72640 ▶▶ EllGee, replying to Country Mumkin, 33, #45 of 1304 🔗

In the local shop this morning (5 in there, all non-masked) the owner was not a happy man. Somebody had asked him if he was more likely to give them the virus as he wasn’t English? His comments on blo**y propaganda and brainwashing were not suitable for any lady to hear. He has relatives in Manchester and said their feeling was that Boris was doing it just because he could and he needs to watch it if he starts to mess with Mancunians.

72648 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to EllGee, 4, #46 of 1304 🔗

Never fear- we ladies love swearies!

72642 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Country Mumkin, 9, #47 of 1304 🔗

I hope so but we seem to keep having false dawns before it’s snatched away again.

72649 ▶▶ John Ballard, replying to Country Mumkin, 25, #48 of 1304 🔗

The MPs to date have been a disgrace how they will expect votes again I don’t know. They need to wake up look at the stats and get campaigning for normality and get us out of this nightmare of incompetence.

72741 ▶▶▶ stewart, replying to John Ballard, 30, #49 of 1304 🔗

Couldn’t agree more. MPs have abdicated all responsibility of representing the people. I dare say there are millions in England who are against lockdowns and masks and yet there is a complete absence of MPs raising any of the logical questions all of us are asking on forums like these.

It’s an absolute disgrace.

72765 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to John Ballard, 8, #50 of 1304 🔗

Thank you for saying this…I was starting to think it was only me thinking this!

73031 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to John Ballard, #51 of 1304 🔗

Hancock and Boris are getting away with this bllx because Parliament is on recess, they are not being held up to scrutiny by the MPs.

73088 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Lms23, 2, #52 of 1304 🔗

This being different to before the recess started in what way, exactly?

72663 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Country Mumkin, 2, #53 of 1304 🔗

Not in my neck of the woods sadly.

72694 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #54 of 1304 🔗

Yep. I do.

The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”

72777 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Country Mumkin, #55 of 1304 🔗

MPs will be bought to heel, the rest of us ignored

72794 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Country Mumkin, 12, #56 of 1304 🔗

Not sure about a turning point. Anyway, two anecdotes from this morning. Young boy about 7, pulls his mask down and away from his face and coughs! You (dear reader) and I know that he’s highly unlikely to be infected so it doesn’t matter. But for the mask zealots, (a) at under 11 he isn’t supposed to be wearing one (b) I thought the main “benefit” was to capture droplets from coughs and sneezes (c) probably the discomfort of the mask was what made him cough.
So, mask zealots, what is the point? Johnson, Hancock, Whitty, you bunch of knobheads, WHAT is the BLOODY POINT?
On to Sainsbury’s. Waved in with my magic card (OK, I know I’m conceding to the government by using it). Staff about 50% masked, customers nearly all except for me, a young man and woman (not together), and an old fat geezer with mask hanging off one ear, a bit ironic since he’ll be doubly vulnerable.

72800 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Edward, 7, #57 of 1304 🔗

Doubly vulnerable. Well he would be if there was any virus left!

72808 ▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 3, #58 of 1304 🔗

Yes, just relatively more vulnerable.

72872 ▶▶ alw, replying to Country Mumkin, 8, #59 of 1304 🔗

The protests happening in Berlin right now will hopefully spread across the world.

72987 ▶▶▶ Sue, replying to alw, #60 of 1304 🔗

it’s what we should do – get out from behind our keyboards and go tell them down whitehall … ooohh i forgot the useless MPs having not been in parliament for several months are now on the Algarve on their holidays.

73095 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Country Mumkin, #61 of 1304 🔗

Yep. If the Tory Red Wall MPs are waking up then it can only be A Good Thing! They should begin the pushback in Parliament.

73326 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bart Simpson, #62 of 1304 🔗

Maybe in time they could break away and form a genuine populist party that works for the interests of the people.

73313 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Country Mumkin, #63 of 1304 🔗

Yep the Lockdown train has ploughed into the reality buffers. Many casualties.

72633 HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 7, #64 of 1304 🔗

Herd Immunity May Be Developing in Mumbai’s Poorest Areas

Around six in ten people living in some of India’s biggest slums have antibodies for the novel coronavirus indicating they’ve recovered from infection, in what could be one of the highest population immunity levels known worldwide.
The findings, from a July serological survey of 6,936 people across three suburbs in India’s financial center of Mumbai, may explain why a steep drop in infections is being seen among the closely-packed population, despite new cases accelerating overall in the hard-hit country.
“Mumbai’s slums may have reached herd immunity,” said Jayaprakash Muliyil, chairman of the Scientific Advisory Committee of India’s National Institute of Epidemiology, and the retired head of one of its premier medical colleges. “If people in Mumbai want a safe place to avoid infection, they should probably go there.”

72634 ▶▶ HawkAnalyst, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #65 of 1304 🔗

New Delhi StudyGrowing immunity may also be behind the dip in cases in the capital city of New Delhi, said Muliyil, where a study in early July found that a quarter of the population had been exposed.
Epidemiologists generally believe that infection levels must reach 60% to create herd immunity. But exposure concentrated in the populations least able to socially distance, like slums, could still slow the overall spread of infection if those who’ve been better able to protect themselves continue to do so.

In Mumbai overall, new cases dropped to the lowest tally in almost three months this week, although the July antibody survey found only 16% had been exposed to the virus among those living in places where social distancing is more feasible, like apartment buildings and houses.
Hospitalizations seem to be going down in both of India’s hardest hit major cities, another indication their outbreaks may be easing.

72729 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to HawkAnalyst, 4, #66 of 1304 🔗

Both Pakistan and Afghanistan seem to be close to herd immunity at least in urban areas, according to statistics and charts I’ve seen in the last couple of weeks (can’t remember the links, at least one was on Ivor Cummins’ Twitter page I think).

Both nations basically couldn’t afford a full lockdown even in the short term. The figures for Pakistan are apparently quite different (with less cases now) than in the neighbouring Indian states, so it’s not just a regional/climate thing (though it’s probably also due to different reporting and testing systems)

72636 anon, replying to anon, 20, #67 of 1304 🔗

REPOST originally from peter t

-live (I think) protests from Berlin

demonstrating in Berlin against the pseudo -medical police state .


72647 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to anon, 17, #68 of 1304 🔗


The line goes on for miles. There’s potentially thousands of them!

72651 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Farinances, 8, #69 of 1304 🔗

yes it is awesome!

72656 ▶▶ watashi, replying to anon, 9, #70 of 1304 🔗

wow, that`s wonderful. Wish we could have us a protest like that here.

72657 ▶▶ DRW, replying to anon, 8, #71 of 1304 🔗

If only we had something like that.

72804 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to DRW, 1, #72 of 1304 🔗

We would if we could be bothered!

72661 ▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, 2, #73 of 1304 🔗

Thanks. Looks large and very good natured. Have shared onwards.

72662 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 4, #74 of 1304 🔗

I feel uplifted watching this!

(was originally posted by peter t on the last article)

72668 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, 5, #75 of 1304 🔗

Thanks Peter t. It is a powerful thing watching others standing so positively for a cause we know is right. Perhaps why the msm are *afraid* to show reports from events like it. It looks very large. Uplifting as you say!

72672 ▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to anon, 15, #76 of 1304 🔗

Germany does have an advantage over us – no BBC! – I do wonder if the life of your first born is how far our “Government” needs to push to get a normal human reaction from us all. The sad swallowing of all of the Covid 19 rules/new normal etc hook line and sinker from most of the population is very worrying. We KNOW that governments have lied shamelessly in the past – WMD’s,cash for questions,expenses scandals and the other years Skripal “poisoning” not forgetting the shooting of Jo Cox and the subsequent whupping very quickly into prison of the man responsible. In short politicians have been shown to be proven liars over the last 30 years so why would they be believed totally now? Sorry rant over, just despair at the naive UK public.

72680 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to KBuchanan, 4, #77 of 1304 🔗

cheer yourself up and watch the protest!

there are thousands there!

72726 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, 4, #78 of 1304 🔗

Dare I say hundreds of thousands?! There is no end to the people… high tens of thousands at the very least.

72732 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 2, #79 of 1304 🔗

I think so!

RT are also broadcasting LIVE the protest in Berlin:


there are LOADS of people there!

72685 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to KBuchanan, 2, #80 of 1304 🔗

when the camera pans you can see how many people are there!

lady at the front with ‘for our freedom’ sign (and same in German)

72733 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to KBuchanan, 17, #81 of 1304 🔗

There seems to be a lot more organised dissent and scepticism in Germany. There’s also a group forming a legal challenge to their Government’s response to the crisis, a bit like Simon Dolan’s but with a lot more support and funding.
It’s a pity the language barrier means that (unlike events in the US, Australia etc.) most people in the UK aren’t really aware of it.

Don’t know if this is going to get reported in the UK media, but with those numbers it will be very hard to present it convincingly as a fringe group of nutters and conspiracy theorists – though I’m sure the BBC will do their best!

72929 ▶▶▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to Drawde927, 3, #82 of 1304 🔗

Just heard it mentioned on the 5Live hourly news bulletin. All they said was the protesters weren’t wearing masks or social distancing!

72688 ▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to anon, 5, #83 of 1304 🔗

How refreshing to see. Can’t see anything like that happening here. If it did, it’d be swiftly shut down by PC Peter Pisspot and his chums.

72751 ▶▶ stewart, replying to anon, 10, #84 of 1304 🔗

It will probably come as a big surprise to many Brits to see Germans giving an example on how to stand up for liberty.

72782 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to stewart, 2, #85 of 1304 🔗

and what a sight it is!

72826 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to stewart, 10, #86 of 1304 🔗

Not really a big surprise. They’ve been had once, so they know the script and are extra diligent as a result. Generally speaking.

72890 ▶▶ annie, replying to anon, 2, #87 of 1304 🔗


73154 ▶▶▶ Commander Jameson, replying to annie, 6, #88 of 1304 🔗

The MSM here in Germany are reporting on it in full-on propaganda mode. The camera lingers on the three skinheads who have turned up to imply that the demonstrators are all neo-nazis, the lack of masks and antisocial distancing is criticised, and the remaining news bulletins cover tiny demonstrations for woke causes in nowhere places in excruciating detail. Where masks were worn etc.

72637 Country Mumkin, replying to Country Mumkin, 30, #89 of 1304 🔗

My recent decision in terms of living life within our new country’s increasingly corporatesque constrictions and regulations consists of…

* shopping in local independent shops and markets as much as possible
* going mask-less or if detect abuse nearby or I’m out with young daughter, wear a visor
* limiting purchases from Amazon. I am not enriching one megalomaniac’s pockets, when I can share with smaller businesses
* join or donate to free speech union and don’t take liberty and free speech for granted
* get my meditation practice going again and look outside to nature for inspiration of how human life should be lived; with freedom and peace

72687 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Country Mumkin, 11, #90 of 1304 🔗

Excellent rules – and there are plenty of on-line options other than Amazon. I’ve bought my daughter books from Wordery recently, for example.

If you want some sanity – come to North Wales for a break. I travelled from North-East Wales to the north coast yesterday. Hundreds of families enjoying the vast swathes of sand, and I did not see a single mask all afternoon! And we don’t have obligatory masks in shops.

How long this will last, I don’t know, but enjoy it while you can!

72716 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Country Mumkin, 4, #91 of 1304 🔗

Inspiring set of rules – thank you for sharing.

Hive is a good alternative for books and you can nominate an independent bookshop which gets a cut of online transactions.

72801 ▶▶ HelenaHancart, replying to Country Mumkin, 19, #92 of 1304 🔗

You are doing absolutely the right thing. I’ve made some big changes already to live my life as freely as possible. No tv and definitely no paying a tv licence. Shopping as little as possible, preferably as you say in small shops and markets, realising that the things I used to do like eating out, pubs, going to cinemas and museums, and travel on public transport, are going to be severely restricted because I refuse point blank to wear a dehumanising mask or give my details to these places. I’m concentrating on hobbies, gardening, visiting quiet places in nature, learning, and keeping a sense of self and sovereignty. Most people I know are still suffering with corona hysteria, so I’m staying away from them too, for a while. I’m stepping away from all the evil and madness being bestowed on us right now, and living my life as I always have, as a free human being.

72907 ▶▶ Kathryn, replying to Country Mumkin, 5, #93 of 1304 🔗

A fine set of rules to live by. I too have made changes. I refuse to wear a face nappy, so am using local shops ( which I did before anyway) as much as possible, now having our milk delivered in glass bottles too . Should have gone back to that years ago really, but it is very satisfying not collecting all the plastic for recycling and knowing you’re helping a local small business at the same time.

73109 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Country Mumkin, #94 of 1304 🔗

Good advice although given where I live local independent stores and markets are non-existent. However some people here might sense and opportunity to make a go at opening stores and setting up markets.

72641 John Ballard, replying to John Ballard, 24, #95 of 1304 🔗

Come into town, overall very quiet for the time of year. Went to the pub, normally busy for lunches, dead quiet, maybe ten people in the whole place.
Boris is shutting the country down.
The town is terrible with dozens of empty shops. I live in Cornwall the main shopping town and it’s dire despite apparently hundreds of thousands of tourists.
Do him and the cock have any idea what they are doing?
M and S nearly everyone in a mask apart from me and the staff!!!
Craziest thing is the ten percent wearing masks when not in shops. Baaaaaaa !!!!

72678 ▶▶ TJN, replying to John Ballard, 6, #96 of 1304 🔗

Glad there’s someone else from down here on the forum – I’m a few miles just across the border into Devon. I guess you were in the capital of Cornwall?

It’s been disheartening to see muzzle-wearing here at almost 100%. Looks as if our Northern brethren are in the vanguard of the fight against this.

72693 ▶▶▶ John Ballard, replying to TJN, 17, #97 of 1304 🔗

Charity shop capital as its becoming! Worst I have seen Truro in 50 years. Unless Boris wakes up by the time he realises we are not all going to die of this we will not have an economy left. I am back into the office on Monday after months working from home but 9 percent of the staff have gone. Tip of the iceberg if him and his cock of a sidekick don’t get a grip.

72803 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to John Ballard, 5, #98 of 1304 🔗

Hell, I am sorry to hear that. I love getting the bus to Truro for shopping, across the wonderful countryside. The cafes, the independent shops as well as the chains, now a ghost town it seems.

72852 ▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to John Ballard, 1, #99 of 1304 🔗

Foreskin of a sidekick, purely there for cosmetic purposes…

72938 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to John Ballard, 3, #100 of 1304 🔗

I wonder if the tourist parts of Cornwall will catch up enough trade now to last the winter.

I doubt that Truro is atypical of almost every other city in England. And Boris must know this, but doesn’t appear to care.

72986 ▶▶▶ Kathryn, replying to TJN, 2, #101 of 1304 🔗

I’m not sure we are any better up here – I’m in Sheffield and in Sainsbury’s yesterday I was the only shopper not masked up. All the staff were too apart from a few on the checkouts. It was pretty depressing really.

72992 ▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to Kathryn, 1, #102 of 1304 🔗

Well it seems that the people of Keighley are doing us proud. See McNamara’s post of about 17:10.

72974 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to John Ballard, 7, #103 of 1304 🔗

The 10% wearing masks outside of the shops are the hardcore true believers. Nothing can be done to win them over.

It seems that everybody else is either coerced by threat of a fine/not wanting to be seen to be breaking the law or whipped into line by peer pressure. If we can increase our numbers even slightly, and continue to act normally, I’m sure we can win over many of those who just go along with it all for an ‘easy life’. After all, the more confusing the ‘rules’ become, the less ‘easy’ life becomes trying to follow them all!

72650 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 13, #104 of 1304 🔗

from above, Raj Bhopal, emeritus Professor of Public Health at Edinburgh University;

Prof Bhopal argues that even if a vaccine is found it may not work well for older people and those with underlying health conditions…”

erm…. so any new vaccine may work on people who are not particularly vulnerable to the nasty cough but may not work on people who are vulnerable to the cough…

72659 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Major Panic, 4, #105 of 1304 🔗

Yes, but there is that ‘may’ again (just can’t avoid those Mays, can one – and now there is to be a Sir to boot). It may never be found; it may be useless; it may turn everyone who takes it into a genius-level, very long-lived, exceptional athlete. Of course it ‘may’ not do any of those things!

72679 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to IanE, 1, #106 of 1304 🔗

so the vaccine may be a damp squib

72686 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Major Panic, 1, #107 of 1304 🔗

Or, simply, never found!

72698 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to IanE, 5, #108 of 1304 🔗

inject the sheeple anyway, (may) release them from their fear

72895 ▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Major Panic, 8, #109 of 1304 🔗

SARS-CoV-2 is a Coronavirus. So is the Common Cold. There will never be a vaccine for the Common Cold; why should COVID-19 be any different?

It won’t be.

72789 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to IanE, #110 of 1304 🔗

You may be right.

72993 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to richard riewer, #111 of 1304 🔗


72817 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Major Panic, 5, #112 of 1304 🔗

But we’re all supposed to rush out and have it to protect the vulnerable, apparently.
This is the angle they’re gonna go for.

And I say fuck that, because I don’t come into contact with anyone over 70 on a daily basis and I’m very unlikely to. Neither do I work with old dudes. So no thanks, I shall be protecting myself first from big pharma negligence.

72849 ▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Farinances, 4, #113 of 1304 🔗

What’s the age range for ‘old dudes’?

73329 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Chris John, #114 of 1304 🔗

Presumably what it is for the flu vaccine

73331 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Chris John, #115 of 1304 🔗

Oh you mean personally?

Those who have very increased chance of dying from it. 70+

72658 Mayo, #116 of 1304 🔗

Meanwhile, Raj Bhopal, emeritus Professor of Public Health at Edinburgh University, says it’s time to reconsider herd immunity as the only long-term solution to COVID-19.

Err…. I thought we already had herd immunity. At least, that’s what many of your cited experts have been saying. Professor Sunetra Gupta (Oxford) was suggesting we might have been close to herd immunity back in March. This was always complete nonsense.

We are nowhere near herd immunity

While I accept prior T cell immunity is a ‘small’ factor, it’s not a credible explanation for the fact that none of my friends, acquaintances, family or neighbours have contracted the virus yet large clusters continue to pop up around the country. The likely reason is that large swathes of the country have not been exposed – yet.

Was the “surge” in cases in the North West that prompted the Government to impose a local lockdown on more than four million people due to 14 additional people testing positive? It certainly looks that way.

Partly – but there is a trend. The “positivity” rate for the most recent 2 week period (July 13th to July 26th) is 0.09%. I assume this is consistent with the overall pillar 2 tests which also show an increase.

On the plus side it’s possible that many of those tested are only experiencing mild symptoms. If that’s the case a herd immunity policy for the next few months (while Vitamin D levels are raised) might be a good idea.

72664 Viv, #117 of 1304 🔗

There’s one other piece of Covid-News which upset me. According to a report in the -paywalled – Times, SAGE advisers proposed on July 2nd that the Army should be ‘on standby’ to intervene, that is: called in should violence erupt at a number of possible demos:
“The potential disorder could be on a greater scale than the summer riots that spread across England in 2011, massively increasing the threat to public health from coronavirus , it said.” ( https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-raves-and-protests-may-need-army-advisers-warn-jsbk5svn5 )

That they can even think of such contingency, never mind actually proposing it, should send shudders down everyone’s spine – especially since Johnson is utterly in thrall to SAGE.

72667 SweetBabyCheeses, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 7, #118 of 1304 🔗

I’m so confused over the stats. There’s ONS, NHS, DHSC, PHE…R rates, positive tests, cases, suspected cases, hospital admissions, deaths in hospitals, home, care homes.
I genuinely have no idea whether no people are sick or dying, dozens, hundreds, thousands.
I get that you can select stats to prove whatever point you want, but has anyone got a grip on what is closest to the actual truth please? I need to have some “go to” sources to send people to so I can convince more people to our side!

72674 ▶▶ DRW, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 3, #119 of 1304 🔗

My favourite analysis site is inproportion2.talkingy.com. The most reliable (and internationally comparible) indicator is probably ONS all-cause mortality.

72684 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, #120 of 1304 🔗

That as well

72682 ▶▶ RickH, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 7, #122 of 1304 🔗

OK. It is initially confusing. But the fog clears after a bit of excavation to reveal some simple principles.

  1. ‘Cases’ means f. all – they are simply the output mainly of highly questionable PCR tests that have a very loose relationship to actual disease. The test are measuring fragments of RNA – not illness.
  2. There are consistent data available, even allowing for the dodgy ‘Covid’ definitions The Oxford CEBM site provides reliable death and hospital admission data as regularly updated tracking. They also publish interesting articles on aspects of what they show clearly to be not-an-epidemic.
  3. In terms of official data (given the fact that any figures mentioning ‘Covid-19’ numbers are simply guess work because of the destruction of proper death registration procedures), the ONS weekly ‘all-cause’ mortality figures do give you a clear picture of what is happening. Epidemic anomalies show up in these figures, and they are what most of us use to get a handle on the situation in historical terms.
  4. The ‘Swiss Doctor” site is probably the best of a a number of reliable sources for good information kept out of the media. It is a collecting point for well-referenced information :


72692 ▶▶ guy153, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 8, #123 of 1304 🔗

The ONS do random(-ish) surveys of households and can probably be trusted the most.

Any result that tells you number of positives without telling you the number of tests and whom they tested (was it random, or anyone who turned up, or anyone in hopsital etc.) is literally meaningless.

I’m not as skeptical about PCR tests as some here– I think they work with about 70% sensitivity and 95% specificity at finding SARS2 and that SARS2 does cause Covid-19. But with prevalence as low as it is now is that makes them practically useless– how you do you find the <1% of real cases out of 5% false positives?

R is about 1 and will be forever and we should not be surprised by this. We have no way of measuring it or even estimating it that is more accurate than the a priori assumption that it’s about 1.

The most reliable thing to look at for a quick check of what’s going on is deaths on Worldometers (bearing in mind that people take a few weeks to die). That data’s far from perfect too but is the best we have.

72734 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to guy153, 4, #124 of 1304 🔗

Guy, thanks for the clarity of your posts. I asked a similar question on the last page, but then we switched to here, so will ask again in case anyone, like me, is confused by the positives. Which of the tests can tell the difference between Covid-19 and any other coronavirus (as in a cold)?

72812 ▶▶▶▶ Tim, replying to DressageRider, #125 of 1304 🔗

A well designed PCR test (and I have designed hundreds) will be selective for just the sequence you are looking for, and should certainly not pick up other coronoviruses.

That said they are not perfect. PHE estimates specificity at 99.9% (i.e. 1:1,000 false positives), which I think is reasonble (or at least feasible). I think it is much closer to that than the 95% cited above. If it were 95% then there would have been 10,350 positives yesterday out of the 207,000 pillar 1 & 2 tests. There were 880; a 99.9% specificity would mean around 200 were false positives.
(note the bizzare local lockdown decisions are based on opinion-poll like modelling of results from much smaller numbers of tests carried out on behalf of the ONS).

72828 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to DressageRider, 2, #126 of 1304 🔗

The PCR tests are looking directly for genes that are known to be unique to SARS2 out of all known coronaviruses so I would not expect that to be a big source of false positives.

But I did read somewhere about the WHO relaxing their criteria for how many genes to match on, but I can’t find it now. I still doubt that this is the biggest source of false positives with the PCR test (which is low, it’s just that with prevalence so low it needs to be really low to get meaningful results).

72701 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 7, #127 of 1304 🔗

The best site for a clear, concise analysis of the facts all in one place is Swiss Policy Research:


They’ve just added an August update. This is the site that the governments don’t want you to see.

72708 ▶▶ djc, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 2, #128 of 1304 🔗

The ONS weekly spreadshhet is probably the most reliable, there is an additional page that compare the ONS and NHS England stats. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

72711 ▶▶▶ djc, replying to djc, 1, #129 of 1304 🔗

PS basic charts of the ONS stats

72820 ▶▶▶ Tim, replying to djc, #130 of 1304 🔗

My problem with the ONS is that they will count any death where SARS-CoV2 is mentioned on the death certificate, irrespective of whether that is the cause of death.
There is also the problem that excess deaths will be reported as being “as a result of SARS-CoV2”, rather than the more probable cause of health service shutdown.

72758 ▶▶ stewart, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 4, #131 of 1304 🔗

Don’t be.(Practically) nobody is dying. (Practically) nobody is being hospitalised.

It’s all good.

73462 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, #132 of 1304 🔗

Used to be Hector Drummond blog but he’s taking a break.

72670 RickH, replying to RickH, 12, #133 of 1304 🔗

Now … I don’t have the figures in front of me, but I think that the statement : “ young people are no more likely to die of COVID-19 than they are of seasonal flu.” is too favourable to the government narrative.

I think that for the younger age-groups, deaths from Covid are less than for seasonal ‘flu.

72736 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to RickH, 1, #134 of 1304 🔗

yes, that is what I understood as well.

72813 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to RickH, 2, #135 of 1304 🔗

Yup. That’s why it’s a common cold not the flu which would be worse.

72933 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to RickH, 1, #136 of 1304 🔗

Yes, there is a stark contrast with the Asian flu epidemic of 1957/8 where several thousand children and young people died.

72673 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 11, #137 of 1304 🔗

One of the barbers in the town getting their knickers in a twist:

We at the Barber Shop Co. are not carrying out in front of face services including shaves and beard trims.
There is no grey area on the government website which says it is illegal to carry out services in the Highest risk zone which is described as ;
The area in front of the face where splashes and droplets from the nose and mouth may be present, which can pose a hazard.
Perhaps it may be possible, for all our sakes, that an official voice can Engage, Explain and Encourage shops that are not following this national government regulation, to do so before Enforcement is actioned.
It is frustrating and actually alarming, in respect of our local health and not least our economy, that most of the barbers in our town follow the regulations yet others blatantly ignore them.

Again, I despair …

72676 ▶▶ IanE, replying to kh1485, 4, #138 of 1304 🔗

I was watching a Stephen King short yesterday. 2 Folks visiting an area of London where the barrier between ‘dimensions’ had worn thin and leakages kept occurring to, and from, the dark dimensions. It seems that these ‘worn’ patches have spread to include most of Britain (and, indeed, most other countries as well).

72713 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to IanE, 18, #139 of 1304 🔗

I hate the fact that they have presented this as doing it for *everybody’s* sake. They sure as hell aren’t doing it for mine. And the absolute pomposity is breath-taking.

72783 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to IanE, 7, #140 of 1304 🔗

As I said to my wife,no explanation is too far fetched or outlandish anymore.

72725 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to kh1485, 6, #141 of 1304 🔗

There is no grey area

There is on my beard…

72781 ▶▶ Paul, replying to kh1485, 14, #142 of 1304 🔗

Barbers and hairdressers are becoming the biggest covid freaks,I thought dentists were bad enough.I watched two elderly gents going into a barbers a couple of weeks ago,it was more like they were going to work at Sellafield.
If the country had been full of the wimps we have now in the summer of 1940,they would have all been on the south coast waving little nazi flags.

72798 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Paul, 11, #143 of 1304 🔗

And, they appear to be enjoying it. There’s absolutely no regret at having to enforce these stupid rules. The WhatsApp thread is awash with snidey, “we’ll show those pesky disease-ridden customers whose boss” type of stuff. It’s really galling. I hope they see a massive downturn in trade and that those flouting the rules clean up.

72814 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 6, #144 of 1304 🔗

Yes, referring to ‘others’ is a give away isn’t it, he’s losing trade for sure!

72811 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Paul, 9, #145 of 1304 🔗

Close second to dentists
Snivelling, cowardly little turds

72842 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Paul, 4, #146 of 1304 🔗

My hairdresser, a young mum of three, is superb. The salon says she has to wear a visor but she wears no other PPE and doesn’t require customers to wear any either.

72896 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #147 of 1304 🔗

A d you are all still alive a pnd well?
Has anybody noticed this?

72809 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to kh1485, 3, #148 of 1304 🔗

Either deal with beards or shut down.


72997 ▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Farinances, 2, #149 of 1304 🔗

Can they shave those?

73011 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to kh1485, 4, #150 of 1304 🔗

Lol, clearly angry because he’s losing trade to more sensible barbers who provide what customers want.

73044 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, #151 of 1304 🔗

Probably just terrified of the local EHOs.

73126 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 1, #152 of 1304 🔗

I’ve walked past several hairdressers over the last fortnight or so and its bizarre how many of them look like they’re carrying out open heart surgery not cutting or colouring customers’ hair.

Trouble is many people are desperate for that hair cut or colour so they put up with any insanity the hairdressers are prepared to throw at them. You can bet that if they’re told that they should wear a colander on top of their heads they would do it!

As for me. I’ve bought a pair of hair cutting scissors and will be cutting my own hair from now on. No more hairdressers for me.

72677 FrankiiB, replying to FrankiiB, 39, #153 of 1304 🔗

Another excellent Lockdown Skeptics, thank you Toby for keeping me sane.

Now Chris Whitty talks as if he, not Boris, is Prime Minister, dictating that lockdown cannot be eased and Boris dares not squeak a word of his own in front of him.

This is the same Chris Whitty who knew the infection rate was falling when we entered lockdown in March and, 2 weeks later, knew that the effects of lockdown (lockdown, not the virus) could result in 200 000 deaths (according the report Toby unearthed).

Knowing that, Chris Whitty is campaigning to make those deaths a reality by extending the unnecessary lockdown.

It looks to me that no only should he be sacked, struck off and barred from any public role, but that a serious enquiry with serious consequences is needed. Its because he, and similar sage members, are unaccountable, unelected and incredibly arrogant that they can get away with it. This needs to change.

72728 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to FrankiiB, 2, #154 of 1304 🔗

He must have been offered a knighthood.

72738 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #155 of 1304 🔗

Looks like he could do with a night out.

72831 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #156 of 1304 🔗

Oh I’d love to know what bribes these bitches have been offered to stay on the leash. Research funding until they retire I presume.

72762 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to FrankiiB, 3, #157 of 1304 🔗

It’s because the politicians have practically no scientific or medical background among them, so these charlatan ‘medical advisors’ just say whatever they think will give them the most publicity and the politicians say, ‘Yes, no problem guv’.

72795 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #158 of 1304 🔗

I am itching to read about dozens of class action lawsuits flooding the courts in the coming weeks and months.

73048 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #159 of 1304 🔗

I’m not sure Whitty is so arrogant. He’s often looked very uncomfortable while delivering the party line and sometimes let the truth slip out.
It’s very possible there’s some sort of blackmail being employed and not just in his case. Big Pharma excel at that sort of pressure.
Threat to family – easy.

73103 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #160 of 1304 🔗

He’s been a huge disappointment. Vallance looks like he’s the one holding the pistol pointed at Johnson’s back (those dead eyes are really beginning to bother me, especially when they’re above a mask) but I’ve been half expecting Whitty to break ranks for months now. But… no dice. Jenny Harries is a little better, but it’s marginal. The medics, to be fair, have been fairly consistently at least ever so slightly better than the ‘scientists’. Still far from good enough.

73285 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, #161 of 1304 🔗

Pharma=Medical Mafia. Legalized Drug Pushers.

73130 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to FrankiiB, 1, #162 of 1304 🔗

Must have been offered cash in several brown envelopes.

That’s the sort of thing that happens in Third World countries.

72690 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 34, #163 of 1304 🔗

How many of you are using the forums? We have so many great discussions, with some really knowledgeable info shared, and then it vanishes with each day’s update. Would it be a good idea on stuff where we are taking action, writing letters, etc to put it in the forum (or copy it to the forum), then we can find it again?

I’ve woken up this morning and I don’t think I’ve ever been so livid, not in the headless chicken kind of way, but cold hard anger, somebody needs to go to prison for this absolute travesty. We are destroying our country and civil society, we’re hurting children, the old and frail, causing widespread poverty, and the level of interference in our private lives has just got to stop.

I am the boss of me, I’m in charge of my life, my freedoms are inalienable, not in the gift of this shower of sh*t.

Even her Majesty’s Opposition don’t oppose, that’s their job, to the be the brake, they are as invested in a second wave as the rest of the arse covering b@stards.

F**k them.

From what I’m reading GPs, schools, HSE, Environmental Health, Local Authorities, retailers etc are all over reaching, are not risk assessing properly, not upholding Public Sector Equality Duty, are not equality impact assessing stuff properly, and we are living in chaos. How dare my GP refuse to give my elderly dad and his rapidly accelerating memory loss no care?

There are some extremely bright people here, who now know a lot, would the forums be a better way of organising our thoughts on specific topics?


72705 ▶▶ drrobin, replying to BecJT, 6, #164 of 1304 🔗

Indeed; I still glance at forums, but the contributions are so numerous these days I can’t follow and don’t contribute.

Thematic organisation would be positive.

72739 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to drrobin, 4, #165 of 1304 🔗

I did make an attempt to use the forums here a few weeks ago, along with the Lockdown Truth one https://www.lockdowntruth.org/forum but neither of them have really gained “critical mass” so I’ve gone back to posting here where most of the activity is.

72807 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to drrobin, 3, #166 of 1304 🔗

Yes Lockdown Sceptics has its own forums, just thinking for topics where we are taking action, or there is info we need to refer to again, it would be easier to find stuff there?

73000 ▶▶▶▶ drrobin, replying to BecJT, 4, #167 of 1304 🔗

It would.
Topics we’re taking action on sure.

I’d also find it very useful to have sections for many areas – an improved version of the ‘contents’ section Toby has here.

Beyond said contents section, information being spread across daily entires from Toby. They’re a great read. He’s done so much work collating. If only it could be pulled together – in a site section or in forums contributors can add to.

Sections such as…

Statistcs – (various sections) Toby references numerous, and contributors have sent many over the years.

Science – studies of mask wearing; studies/stats regarding immunisation/treatment SARS-CoV-2 & postive-sense single-stranded RNA viruses (a little science doesn’t go amiss when making a point).

Protests – (reports, planned, or individual etc)

Media – e.g. videos from doctors (I see one posted)


Though as the forums are so busy, none of us will read this or do anything….says hole-in-my-bucket-Henry.

72710 ▶▶ drrobin, replying to BecJT, 3, #168 of 1304 🔗

I also wonder of the value of folk all using twitter, or do people select a different anonymity level here so would be concerned to?

Only it might be somewhat easier to follow and more use having the discussion in public where some of the excellent comments might go viral.

That said, Toby does attract a surprising number Trolls, so we might inherrit their vile outpourings.

72723 ▶▶ drrobin, replying to BecJT, 2, #169 of 1304 🔗

I’m slow today – see whatyou mean. I hadn’t even realised there were forums here. Maybe

Could Toby highlight using them it in an article?

I tried searching (search at top of this page) to see what conversation was had on here about Dr Bobo Schiffman in view of his video

The search on this site returns nothing, yet a google search returns a link to someone mentioning it on 30th July. I realise now it was in the forums….

72724 ▶▶ Seamonster, replying to BecJT, 1, #170 of 1304 🔗

Spot on.

73148 ▶▶ Lili, replying to BecJT, 1, #171 of 1304 🔗

Agree with everything you’ve said 100%.

73173 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to BecJT, 1, #172 of 1304 🔗

A thread on the forums of sample letters to MPs, shops etc would be good – people are posting great ones here but it would be good to have them all in one place so they are easier to find!

72696 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #173 of 1304 🔗

Has anyone any positive experiences of opticians? Name any good ones high street ones if there are any. I need new specs in a hurry! Thanks

72805 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Lockdown Truth, #174 of 1304 🔗

ME TOO. And I still haven’t worked up the balls (or the time off) to go…..

72845 ▶▶ Chris John, replying to Lockdown Truth, #175 of 1304 🔗

Specsavers Lewes (sorta local) we’re good with eye test and spec selection.

72858 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Chris John, #176 of 1304 🔗

did they muzzle and distance you?

72697 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 39, #177 of 1304 🔗

I just sent this to Sir Graham Brady (I’ve emailed about three or four times since lockdown but never received a response)

Dear Sir Graham,

This is now the third or fourth time that I have emailed you as chair of the 1922 Committee with respect to the unnecessary lockdown that this country has experienced since March.

Imagine my dismay, when I awoke yesterday morning where I live near Keighley, to hear that Matt Hancock had disrespectfully Twittered that the North West was going to be locked down again because of an apparent surge in covid19 cases. Aside from the fact that announcing this on Twitter with three hours notice on the eve of Eid, among other things, shows a great deal of contempt for the people living in the area, the reason for this local lockdown is completely unfounded.

If tests increase, cases increase, but deaths are going down or are virtually zero and this is a good thing and ought to be celebrated. Instead, we have more fear mongering.

Besides, it would appear from ONS data that there have been very few extra cases over a six week period. There is no surge or spike or second wave in the North West, it simply does not exist!

The government overreach, nannying, control, power and fear mongering being exerted at the moment by Boris Johnson and his cabinet and so called ‘expert’ medical advisers is simply unacceptable and I respectfully urge you to exert whatever influence you have to end this madness now before the economy is completely destroyed and before any more people die from the lockdown policies.

I just implore you to do something about this situation that is being worsened by the bias of the mainstream media.

There is still such a thing as right and wrong and implementing further restrictions on the North West is simply wrong and ought to be reversed with immediate effect.

How is it that in the space of a few short months it now seems acceptable for the government to tell us what to do, who we should meet, how we should meet, who we can or cannot have in our own homes, how we can work, how we can travel, how our children can be schooled, how our health can be cared for, what we should do in places of worship and, more recently, what we should wear???

I respectfully ask you how has it come to this for a virus that by Chris Whitty’s and Boris Johnson’s own admission is mild and most people recover from? How? It is nothing short of despicable behaviour.

Yours faithfully,

72699 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Moomin, 6, #178 of 1304 🔗

What’s his email address? I want to write to him too. Well done.

72714 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to BecJT, 4, #179 of 1304 🔗
72806 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Moomin, 3, #180 of 1304 🔗

Thanks, done!

72836 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Moomin, 2, #181 of 1304 🔗

Great email!

72840 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Moomin, 4, #182 of 1304 🔗

Superb stuff. Could also include what e should eat, wear we can holiday and how we should travel about.

72700 Mark, 20, #183 of 1304 🔗

“Another senior Tory, with an affected northern seat, said: “I just think there remains a default position of extreme caution which jars with the reality that we may have to live with Covid for a very long time and we have to get on with life.””

A welcome glimmer of dawning sanity in at least one of our Morons of Parliament, at last.

72702 NickR, replying to NickR, 8, #184 of 1304 🔗

I’m a frog and I’m being boiled!

73053 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to NickR, #185 of 1304 🔗

At least you’re aware of the fact and looking for a way out.

72703 Cecil B, #186 of 1304 🔗


72704 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 2, #187 of 1304 🔗

You know how ‘lockdown’ has killed 21,000 people, probably more? It’s funny, but I can’t find any reference to it on the BBC:


Maybe it’s buried somewhere on their website, or maybe they didn’t report this outrage at all.

At least The Telegraph reported it:


Can anyone find it on the BBC website?

72857 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, 1, #188 of 1304 🔗

did they ever report on the 200,000 possible lockdown deaths story?

I remember them getting in there with the 30,000 possible cancer deaths or whatever it was a few weeks back. Didn’t last long though.

72707 Major Panic, #189 of 1304 🔗

posted previously by Nobody2020….

comment image

what could this mean?….

72709 NickR, replying to NickR, 69, #190 of 1304 🔗

Banging on about how awful it was in Waitrose or how mad people are to wear a mask in a car on their own isn’t going to win anyone around to the sceptic view. Likewise, no matter how many heart rending stories about old people dying alone are recounted this is all just anecdote and of no real value in persuading the people that we’ve got to learn to live with the virus and not try and eliminate all trace of it before we creep out from behind the sofa.
Polls suggest only about 1 in 10 people are lockdown sceptics, our task is surely to convert more to the cause, preaching to the converted, I’m afraid, butters no parsnips! You need to get out there and push the key arguments for why the government is on a fools errand.
The key arguments are:
1.      Infections peaked in advance of the lockdown.
2.      No where in the world has there been exponential growth in either cases or deaths beyond the first few weeks.
3.      The UK has had the world’s 2nd highest number of deaths per head of population (2nd to Belgium). It’s hard to imagine that we would have had a spectacularly worse result without a lockdown. Various countries haven’t had a lockdown (Sweden, Belarus, Japan) & they’ve had fewer deaths than the UK, this suggests that the lockdown didn’t save many lives, they were lost anyway.
4.      Household in countries like; India, Brazil, great swathes of Africa and Latin America don’t have fridges or bank accounts, they have to shop daily, they live in crowded housing with poor sanitation, do we really believe that their lockdowns were more effective than ours?
5.      Oxford University’s Blavatnik School of Government and others find no clear correlation between stringency of lockdown and the number of infections.
6.      Recently there has apparently been an increase in positive tests but hospitalisations continue to fall.
7.      The whole government response has been a classic case of ‘mission creep’. The lockdown was initially just to ‘flatten the curve’ to save the NHS, it soon became apparent that the NHS was never threatened yet we’ve pursued a policy that is leading millions into economic misery.
8.      Recently there has apparently been an increase in positive tests but there has also been a huge increase in testing. The Government have been reluctant to tell us the rate of positive tests as a percentage of tests carried out on different individuals. It’s quite possible that the entire increase is made up of increased testing and false positives.
9.      It looks like more people are dying as a consequence of the lockdown than are being saved by the lockdown.
10.  The NHS & Government Actuaries forecast that 200,000 lives will be lost as a consequence of the lockdown of non-covid suffering people. Just suppose 20,000 lives were ‘saved’ by the lockdown that’s 10 non-covid caused by every covid life saved!
11.  It looks like the cost per life saved by the lockdown will come in at about £15m each.
12.  95% of all deaths have been of people with serious underlying health issues, it is these underlying health issues, all too often down to lifestyle choices that represent the deadly pandemic.
13.  As recently as 2017/18 there were 50,000 excess winter deaths, mainly from flu, this in an era when we had a vaccine.
14.  Adjusted for population 2020 looks like only being the 8th worse for excess deaths since 1993.
15.  Nurses, care workers, supermarket staff are not amongst the groups who have had the highest levels of infection yet they’ve worked right through the pandemic mixing with the general public and without masks in indoor settings.
16.  The average age of fatalities is the same as the average age at which people die of all causes.
Get people to question, get them to research a bit to realise for themselves that this is madness, that if we wish to have any prospect of funding the NHS into the future, of educating our children and employing our people we need to act like grown-ups and decide for ourselves what risk we’re prepared to take and not be dictated to by a bunch of out of touch politicians and scientists who’ve made such a mess of the whole business so far.

72712 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to NickR, 7, #191 of 1304 🔗

Is there really no MP or news outlet willing to ask these questions of HMG and Whitty at al? Scary if so.
What are they hiding?

72715 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to NickR, 3, #192 of 1304 🔗

Thanks Nick. Excellent summary. I’ve saved these to use later…

72719 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to NickR, #193 of 1304 🔗

Great thanks. I’m skeptical about #3 though. You’d have to examine excess deaths above the 5 year average for each country to convince me that the UK has been that bad.

72722 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 1, #194 of 1304 🔗

So what? It doesn’t matter how relatively good/bad the UK has been, the important point is do you believe it would have been any worse without a lockdown. The fact we still managed to be so apparently awful suggests anything we did or didn’t do didn’t make any difference.

72884 ▶▶▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to NickR, 1, #195 of 1304 🔗

Well you and I believe that but I think it’s important as it’s not what the majority of the UK population seem to. I feel like feeding the narrative that the UK has had a v high rate of deaths just fuels the belief that (i) we should have locked down harder/earlier (ii) the population is somehow to blame for doing such outrageous things as walking in the countryside (iii) we need to endure an extended lockdown and suffer a poor quality of life in order to somehow atone for the deaths and (iv) Brits are more diseased than other nationals and should not be allowed to travel abroad.
Reattributing as many of the excess deaths as possible (in the future as this is not going away) from covid-related to the true causes will only help to reassure the sheeples that the virus is not remotely as dangerous as they believe.

72730 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 13, #196 of 1304 🔗

Most of these points are clearly the case. Only insights depending on definitions of ‘Covid’ are questionable, since these numbers are a movable feast.

The main problem, however, Nick, is that this is not going to be about rationality. We are way beyond that in the Brainwashed State, with the evil of the SAGE psy-ops sub-group the important factor.

I mean : who rationally would take anything on trust from a narcissistic Prime Minister whose sole accomplishment has been to bluster and lie his way towards his dream of power on the basis of no observable talent – except blustering, bullshitting and lying.

No – although the rationality is important, it has to be sparked by an anti-propaganda emotional appeal.

“Stay safe – trust your friends and family. Reject the Bullingdon Bully”

72737 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to RickH, 9, #197 of 1304 🔗

Rick H, yours is the counsel of despair. As soon as you go down the emotional appeal line you’re lost. The other side come back with; “but we’ve saved 450,000 lives by lockdown”, “you’re heartless and want people to die”. You have to show that the only way to save lives is end lockdown, the only way to save the economy is to end lockdown, that lockdown has killed people, continues to kill people & will kill many time more in the future. Keep it rational, forget the emotion, both sides play that game.

72756 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NickR, 4, #198 of 1304 🔗

Problem is though Nick they’ll never believe it, why believe us conspiracy theorists over the Government that tells them the truth. Until they’re hit financially then they’ll never want change.

72824 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to NickR, 1, #199 of 1304 🔗

I agree and if some of us trusted our friends and family we’d be scuppered!

73365 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 1, #200 of 1304 🔗

It’s not a ‘council of despair’. It’s the reality of mass psychology – long recognised as a major factor. You have to find a ‘hook’ to grab attention before you stand a prayer of getting over the facts. Anyone who has argued the rational case knows that it’s not enough on its own.

73060 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 1, #201 of 1304 🔗

I’d change that to stay sane . Otherwise spot on.

72749 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to NickR, 9, #202 of 1304 🔗

These lockdown zealots will not be bothered by any of these points. The only time they will start to rebel against it will be when it starts to hit a large amount of these people financially.

At the moment it’s still a holiday for all these people as they’re getting furlough and bailouts. The tide will start to turn from today unless the government extends these schemes.

72759 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to JohnB, 6, #203 of 1304 🔗

You’re not trying to change everyone’s mind. Act like a virus, we’re 10% at present, if everyone convinces one other person once a week then within 3 weeks we’re a majority.

72764 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NickR, 7, #204 of 1304 🔗

Problem is that even though you tell people, they can’t comprehend that the Gov, NHS or MSM aren’t telling them the truth. These points are too complex for them to understand, so it has to be something such as money as that’s simple enough for everyone to understand.

72832 ▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to JohnB, 12, #205 of 1304 🔗

exactly! people like my parents who trust the government has their best interests at heart and believe that radio 4 is the ultimate source of truth.

72768 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to NickR, 8, #206 of 1304 🔗

Also, I don’t think it can be 10% it’s more than likely 50/50 but too many of the 50% are ashamed to show it as everything is being made to look as though lockdown is the right thing to be doing.

73063 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to JohnB, 1, #207 of 1304 🔗

That’s why it’s important to set the example of old normal, even by something as seemingly small as going maskless.

73368 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, #208 of 1304 🔗

I half admire your optimism. Except it falls apart, given that we’re already 4 months into this – and people are wearing masks.

I’ve been spreading the word at every opportunity in that time.

72784 ▶▶ stewart, replying to NickR, 7, #209 of 1304 🔗

I share the sentiment, but reason and arguments rarely change people’s minds.

I would favour starting a campaign to get Imperial College to sack Neil Ferguson on the grounds of incompetence, deceit and generally harming the public good.

The woke movement use public outrage to great effect, and they’re definitely not more than 10% of the population.

Anyone know how to start a Twitter firestorm?

72838 ▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to stewart, 3, #210 of 1304 🔗

No point. There are not enough non woke people on Twitter to light a candle never mind a fire storm. There’s a reason twitter outrage mobs always come from the woke left.

72788 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to NickR, 20, #211 of 1304 🔗

We don’t need more sceptics.
We just need more people to ignore the rules.
Most people- honestly- just need a little push to start doing so because they recognise the rules are now redonkulous.
The zealots are lost causes, don’t bother with them.
BUT you don’t need to create a sceptic (or coax one out of their
shell) in order to have influence.
In fact in a way argument is a bit redundant at this point.
Just act normally.
Just act normally.
Just act normally. (As far as poss)
The more people see you ignoring the rules and being uNbothered, the more it will spread. As Anna Brees said the other day “Like a good virus”.

72825 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Farinances, 11, #212 of 1304 🔗

Bang on! That’s our view at the moment. Model normal behaviour, give people permission to be normal. (That’s assuming we’re anything like normal 🙂 )

72899 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, 10, #213 of 1304 🔗

You hit it. ACT NORMALLY.
That’s what most ordinary people want. I see lots of them in my tourist job and I’m certain of it.
The zombies have held the stage for far, far too long, but the act has been repeated so often that boredom has to set in soon.
Let’s ramp up the fearless!

72916 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to annie, 12, #214 of 1304 🔗

Yes this is definitely the case, the majority want to be normal, it’s only a small hardcore who WANT to go along with the ‘new normal’.

I was in Prague recently, and sat in the lobby of the hotel I saw quite a few groups of (mainly French/German) tourists arriving to check in wearing masks. When the receptionist informed them that masks were not necessary, they happily took them off and I didn’t see any of them with them back on during my stay!

72959 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Farinances, 8, #215 of 1304 🔗

Excellent point excellently put 😁
I don’t think polls are correct anyway, because there seems to be a disconnect between what people say when polled and what they actually do. Far more are quite happy to do what they have to do (and even what they want to do) and the authorities be damned, while still pretending to be good little lockdown zombies when asked.

73067 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #216 of 1304 🔗

I think the pollsters might possibly bother to actually ask the questions but they publish the results they want. Who can prove them wrong?

73200 ▶▶▶ Bob, replying to Farinances, #217 of 1304 🔗

Remove any signs you can from floors and especially posts while out walking in the countryside!

72823 ▶▶ Edward, replying to NickR, 6, #218 of 1304 🔗

I think we need to mix & match rational and emotional arguments. In Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar, after Caesar’s murder Brutus appeals to the crowd using rational arguments but Mark Antony appeals to the their emotions, and the latter approach wins the crowd over.

72827 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Edward, 7, #219 of 1304 🔗

I prefer simple action.
But yes if you must engage, do so IN PERSON and don’t get too emotional lol
I tend to go in with a cheeky eye roll like a kid in the dinner queue. If they eye roll back you know you can engage with the logic.
Honestly though. Action. Your behaviour and how they react to it is the best barometer. (I’ve seen enough people remove masks as soon ss they see someone else not getting shit for not wearing one).

72835 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Edward, 1, #220 of 1304 🔗

Stalin knew a thing or 2 about this, he said “a single death is a tragedy, 1 million deaths is a statistic.”

73112 ▶▶ Hannahbanana, replying to NickR, #221 of 1304 🔗

Appreciate that list Nick! Helpful to have a concise summary to discuss….compared to the massive scream I want to unleash instead 😂

73131 ▶▶ Lili, replying to NickR, 2, #222 of 1304 🔗

I don’t believe the polls. Only 1 in 10 a sceptic? More like about 70% of the population.

73135 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to NickR, #223 of 1304 🔗

Great summary. Have copied it into a word document.

73293 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to NickR, #224 of 1304 🔗

What is the Poll question? How is it framed?

73789 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to NickR, #225 of 1304 🔗

Nick I agree with all of your points and have used many myself in my efforts to convert the non-sceptics. But even without becoming emotional, I find that they just want to shut you down, tell you that you are wrong, or they don’t believe you. Then they revert to the accepted groupthink narrative – lockdown should have been harder, earlier, how lockdown was right because it saved so many people, why we need to keep up restrictions because of the supposed ‘2nd wave’… yada yada. I am utterly failing in my mission.

72717 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 24, #226 of 1304 🔗


From Berlin 1/8/20 . The German people have woken up and are protesting against the sham science authoritarian state . The British people still slumber….

72834 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #227 of 1304 🔗

The British will never wake up. We are not the people I thought we were.

73170 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #228 of 1304 🔗

1.3 million of them out protesting apparently!

72718 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 12, #229 of 1304 🔗

There definitely seems to be a change in tone with the Telegraph’s articles today… and most of the comments are downright angry too.

The herd immunity article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/31/herd-immunity-long-term-solution-covid-19-has-become-taboo-says/ does have a few disbelieving comments, based on the completely outdated “science” of 1% IFR and 60-80% herd immunity.

Hearing about the “red wall” MPs’ reaction was also heartening!

72802 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Drawde927, 2, #230 of 1304 🔗

Hopefully the douchetool who ignored my emails for two months is beginning to take note

72905 ▶▶ Wesley, replying to Drawde927, 1, #231 of 1304 🔗

And this was a cracking article from Ross Clark https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/31/governments-dystopian-overreach-shows-slippery-slope-action/

But the editors seem to have done a good job of hiding it from the front page.

73120 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Drawde927, #232 of 1304 🔗

Must be a good article. The trolls were really out in force in the comments.

73165 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Drawde927, #233 of 1304 🔗

As far as I can see, ALL the comments on the Ross Clark article (mentioned below) are anti-lockdown, government etc – very heartening!

72721 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 15, #234 of 1304 🔗

If this stupidity continues for much longer, I fear that my sanity might not survive: witnessed people wearing plastic face helmets walking about in the open this morning.

Bumped into a friend and neighbour, who tried to speak to me with paper mask in place.

I told her to take it off, which she did- into her pocket it went. She’s now ordered a space helmet as she can’t see properly with the mask on! 🙃

To follow this, a surreal ‘new library experience’: having negotiated the council website to confirm that a limited service is now available, I took the plunge.

5 books may be ordered from our local library, but only if they’re in stock.

Reservations are not allowed, and choice of books is limited to author and genre; in other words, a specific title cannot be offered.

48 hours’ notice is then required: I now have an appointment for 1pm on Tuesday, at which time the doors will open and I’ll be admitted, alone, to collect the books on offer.

Hand sanitising obligatory and it’s quite likely that the books I wanted will not be available, owing to the criteria now in force.

This is utterly, utterly bonkers and I feel for our hapless library staff, having to oversee this nonsense.

🙃 🙃 Upside down Covid World.

72752 ▶▶ Paul, replying to wendyk, 6, #235 of 1304 🔗

It’s Clown world and I want to get off and go back to the one I was on in February.
At our library you aren’t even allowed in,users have to wait at the door and someone who looks like they are ready for the mission to Mars fetches the books,wipes then down with some kind of gunk and puts them on a table for the poor diseased wretch to pick up.
They have what is like a small skip with a letterbox for infected,dirty germ covered books to be dropped in on return,this is twenty feet away from the library entrance.

72775 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Paul, 7, #236 of 1304 🔗

Illiteracy, both cultural, political and social beckons. Control Creep is the ‘new normal’ and I hate it!

73297 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to wendyk, #237 of 1304 🔗

Did she ask you to take her to your leader?

72727 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #238 of 1304 🔗

Imagine having a Covid-19 epidemic in your town, and nobody takes notice. Well, this happened in:
Milano, Bologna (Italy) Dec 19, Jan 20, Feb 20
Alsace (France) Dec 19, Jan 20, Feb 20
Solrod (East Denmark) Feb 20
Santa Catarina (Southern Brazil) Nov 19, Dec 19
(Wastewater) Not mentioned the wastewater finding in Barcelona Feb 2019 as many (Balloux) thinks that finding has not been verified correctly.

This interesting finding above is consistent with spread from Wuhan end of Oct (Military Olympics). But why the delay in the spread in these countries by several months? Perhaps it was a competing low virulent strain at the same time.


This is a fascinating hypothesis that LVS (low virulence strain corona) was spreading much earlier and probably already Aug Sept in China and worldwide. The origin was in another part of China much closer to the Vietnam border. Then in Wuhan Okt-Nov mutation occurred and the HVS (High virulent corona strain) now diagnosed as Covid-19 disease of Sars-Cov-2 occurred, competing with the already spread LVS.
HVS had an advantage of higher reproduction number than LVS and would outcompete in the end the LVS. However, if you got LVS early on you got immunity to HVS (natural vaccination) which explain the startling figures how little HVS was found in China outside Hubei province and also in neighbouring countries or any country with much contact with China. But even more favourable in such countries were in the ones which had lower population as herd immunity to LVS could be reached earlier which would stop much of transmission of the later HVS. We had two competing strains and having LVS very early on was protective for a severe HVS (SARS-Cov2) outbreak.

Interesting is also the discussion that when the two strains were circulating simultaneously and had exponential growth, then isolation and quarantine of the identified HVS was beneficial but social distancing was contra-productive. The reason being that both strains would be affected by social distancing and declining but the faster growing HVS would have an advantage and increasing more at the expense of the LVS.

The article is requiring extreme mathematical insight to understand it fully how they calculate and having no mathematical knowledge impossible to judge for me but intuitively this hypothesis seems to tie many knots together. Quotes from the article

“As in those cases of cross-immunizing strains, our model suggests that although both strains share cross immunity, the earlier strain has mild to no clinical symptoms, leading to it being yet-unrecognized and not raising world-wide alarm. However, when this LVS reached Wuhan, an accumulation of mutations occurred that gave rise to the emergence of a faster spreading and more pathogenic HVS, namely the currently identified SARS-CoV-2,which then spread from Wuhan to China and the rest of the world.”
“A likely possibility is therefore that cross antigenicity between the two strains might be dependent on cellular immunity, rather than humoral one. For example, previous studies on avian influenza HVS H5N1 protection by the LVSs H9N2[17, 18], H1N1, or H1N2[19] showed that the immunity was cellular rather than humoral immunity,and H5N1 antibodies were not found in chickens that were previously infected by low virulence strains .”

“Our results would similarly suggest that different opening strategies after lock-downs and social distancing would not considerably affect the overall infection levels, which is effectively dependent on the double-strain dynamics and not the containment measures responses (or the lack of them).”

 “The introduction of a precursor LVS can therefore explain the otherwise puzzling findings of the highest exposed countries showing low infection levels at late times (Fig. 1a), and the transition from initial fast exponential growth to a slow non-exponential level, and even an effective complete stop of the growth in all countries, although none of them have infection levels even close to those required for herd-immunity.”

72766 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to swedenborg, 1, #239 of 1304 🔗

Theory. A ‘new virus’, let’s call it SARS 1.5, emerged in early 2019, in let’s say Beijing or Shanghai hinterland. Not particularly virulent, and high-ranking officials in one of the SREs involved in various industries seeded it to other ‘global’ cities – note, for example, the mobile and technology industry has an annual conference at the end of February every year in Barcelona, plus various fashion meets in Milan, Paris and London in Q1 every year. It is not an issue, because nobody is seriously unwell – nothing to see. Except the Chinese perceive/know there could be a problem so they start to fast-track plans to create a vaccine. Now, where would that research be conducted, certainly not in Beijing or Shanghai, but where there is the only supposedly ‘bio-secure’ lab in China. Perhaps not so secure as might be expected – French rather than US intelligence sources suggested that (I think I read somewhere).

73328 ▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #240 of 1304 🔗

Makes sense there.

72780 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to swedenborg, 2, #241 of 1304 🔗

I read this a few days ago on the Cornel University website. At that point it hadn’t been peer reviewed. Has it now? Regardless, what they describe is certainly plausible. In fact, more than plausible. As they point out, the theory accounts for the lesser contagion in those countries with the highest traffic with China; the opposite of what you’d expect. This study, and responses to it, needs watching closely. I haven’t seen it reported in the MSM yet. I wonder why not?

73081 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to swedenborg, #242 of 1304 🔗

Does this study account for the near 100% immunity among children?

73229 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Yawnyaman, #243 of 1304 🔗

No,they don’t discuss that aspect

72731 Bugle, 2, #244 of 1304 🔗

Thank you, Toby. Great job as ever.

72735 Telpin, replying to Telpin, 39, #245 of 1304 🔗

Listening to R4’s Any Answers now – just to take the temperature and see whether there’s a slight shift in the establishment view. Utterly utterly depressing- is there really no one- aside from subscribers to this site – who is questioning the restrictions? I feel like slitting my wrists. I seriously don’t recognise or love this country any more. We’ve just been described by a R4 listener as ‘whingers’. Is no one looking at the graph of admissions/ deaths?. Is no one able to differentiate between these and the ‘positive cases’.? Why is no one else asking the obvious question- what’s the actual reason and significance of these ‘cases’ – ie increased tests / false positives/ lack of serious illness amongst majority- ie nothing to justify shut down economy/ education/meaningful social and cultural life and all other health services for. As someone who’s still waiting ( after 6 months) for a serious neurological procedure due to the NHS’decision to shut down all non CO Vid procedures, I get particularly enraged when the public health argument is rammed down my throat. I’ve been visiting a major London hospital once weekly for the past 4 months and it’s EMPTY- ALL OUTPATIENTS clinics completely shut down- for 4 months! Only slowly opening up now. Maybe everyone’s on zoom but cannot believe proper diagnoses have been conducted across the board. Certainly no one’s been having blood tests as I’ve been the only patient in the blood clinic each and every time I visit. I wrote to the BBC months ago asking why none of this was being represented and got no satisfactory response. These people don’t really care about anyone else. Sorry for the rant but what I am most disappointed by is the failure of any of the so called sainted doctors to speak out on behalf of the thousands of patients whose health they know has been seriously damaged by the LD restrictions. Rant over … for now.

72742 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Telpin, 8, #246 of 1304 🔗

Think how stupid the average person is (think tail-gating on motorways, for instance).

Then consider that 50% are even more stupid.

72743 ▶▶ JustMe, replying to Telpin, 4, #247 of 1304 🔗

Please don’t slit your wrists – but I know how you feel.

72744 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Telpin, 10, #248 of 1304 🔗

Don’t despair. The people you want to be listening to would never get on air on BBC radio ☺
These would be the people on your local high street or breaking lockdown rules in their gardens oop north right now as we speak 😊
(Seriously stop listening to the BBC. It will do that to you)

72754 ▶▶ anon, replying to Telpin, 3, #249 of 1304 🔗

watch this instead!


live protest in Berlin!

thousands upon thousands are there!

72787 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to anon, 1, #250 of 1304 🔗

Experiencing unsusal youtube errors trying to access the Ruptly stream of the Berlin Protests. Not Ruptly ‘will resume shortly’ card. Youtube errors. Not encoutered before. Censorship?

72791 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, #251 of 1304 🔗

could well be

it’s up for me now

however they seemed to cut off when the main stage screens showed all the crowds

rt seem to focus on zooming in on a very small section – so yes I could have just observed live censorship. did you see that?

72853 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to anon, 5, #252 of 1304 🔗

Police have turned up and trying to break the meeting. Listen to the jeering!!

72854 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #253 of 1304 🔗

Police have taken the mic and the stage. People are entirely peacful booing . It is a wonderful day in Berlin. The crowd is unifying. Well done them. Incredible moments.

73281 ▶▶▶ Rosefairy2, replying to anon, #254 of 1304 🔗

They were 1.3 millions!!!

72760 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Telpin, 20, #255 of 1304 🔗

The BBC isn’t the country nor does it reflect the country. It mistakenly believes it does. You listened to bbc and your reaction says everything – the BBC is anti life! I woukd suggest shutting the door on the BBC and manage your health. What good is it when every time we press the on button a deep anger is caused. Every other BBC production gives the same degrading experience. Break the shackles! Look here:
The stream has just ended but high tens of thousands probably many more more have been out in the streets in Berlin. Our BBC wont give you that news, it wants you to feel exactky as you do isolated, dispairing and without hope. All at the press of a button.

It is useful to listen to the BBC to see how they are propagandising but it takes effort not to be sucked down to tge low level of existence they operate at. Remember Saville, the BBC knew and did nothing – rise above them because they are nonce protecting scum, happy to steal licence fees from people with little to pay massive bonuses and dictste to the world how others shoukd live.

We are all better than the BBC.

Rants are catching – is it a covid symptom?

72769 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to Telpin, 7, #256 of 1304 🔗

I was recently called into hospital for my “urgent” surgery which was delayed 4 months due to Covid. Except for 2 hours when there were two of us, I was the only patient on a six bedded unit.

72770 ▶▶ Simon Dutton, replying to Telpin, 6, #257 of 1304 🔗
72785 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Simon Dutton, 5, #258 of 1304 🔗

Agree. Go for it, you’ll find it a liberation! And there’s the added satisfaction of knowing you are depriving the gov’ts propaganda arm of much needed funds!

73301 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Simon Dutton, #259 of 1304 🔗

Group cancelling. In well coordinated big bunches.

72830 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Telpin, #260 of 1304 🔗

I feel exactly the same. I’m glad I’m not alone and have a great family because if I was alone I think I’d be struggling to see the point of a life with all the joy and freedom amputated from it.

72846 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Telpin, 11, #261 of 1304 🔗

I feel exactly same. I think we have been let down by the media, doctors, scientists and politicians…all of whom have a duty of care to the whole population. I feel at my wits end with my anxiety levels through the roof each time I have to go outside and it’s not because i’m afraid of the virus or the bloody mask-wearing brigade, it is the sight of what seems to be people’s passive compliance which leads to me wanting to scream at them in the street! I know some of them could be seen to be “making the best of things” or genuinely afraid but it makes me want to weep for the future for my children and grandchildren.

72901 ▶▶ annie, replying to Telpin, 2, #262 of 1304 🔗

‘This country’ and ‘the BBC’ are not syonymous.

73146 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Telpin, #263 of 1304 🔗

Can I suggest you neither watch nor listen to the BBC for the sake of your sanity? I now listen to Mike Graham on TalkRadio (Mon to Fri 10am til 1pm). Huge amounts of common sense. It will cheer you up.

72740 JustMe, replying to JustMe, 2, #264 of 1304 🔗

Professor Carl Heneghan’s discussions on here (July 19th) and on The Spectator (July 31st) include talk of old fashioned fever or ‘isolation’ hospitals being single-story and not having lift-shafts (that push and pull air around).
I wonder if this site could pull together a list of hospitals where C-19 patients are put in inappropriate places, where the NHS has not learned any lessons (as otherwise claimed) and where we the general public should avoid if we get run over or have a heart attack?
I’ll begin the list by saying that both of Barnsley hospital’s ICU wards are in buildings that have lifts and that I have been told that Huddersfield Royal Infirmary’s ICU ward houses their C-19 patients in side rooms, off the main ward, with the same nice lady coming round asking if you’d like a cup of tea.

72750 ▶▶ RickH, replying to JustMe, 6, #265 of 1304 🔗

The thing is …. we are now well past the point of difficult isolation issues.

This may have been a medical issue back in April, but it is now, purely and simply, a political infection.

72855 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to RickH, 2, #266 of 1304 🔗

“political infection” is a great way of putting it

Covid-19 – The Political Plague

72745 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #267 of 1304 🔗

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666535220300306?via%3Dihub COVID-19 zugzwang: Potential public health moves towards population (herd) immunity
This the complete article referenced in Toby’s daily update by Bhopal,Edinburg
(Throw in the towel!)

72763 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to swedenborg, 6, #269 of 1304 🔗

Actually, you can eliminate the vaccine option. Only a brainwashed numpty would take a vaccine that had not been extensively RC trialled over a significant time period.

So that leaves (a) population immunity (looks well ahead of any vaccine) and (b) just shrugging your shoulders and living with what remains of this moderate virus – like we do with many others.

It’s really quite simple, isn’t it?

But such is scientific illiteracy that many prefer to believe a narcissist with a track record of lying and exaggerated bluster, rather than the bleedin’ obvious.

73101 ▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to RickH, #270 of 1304 🔗

It’s worse than that, many don’t trust Bojo but are still totally ok with Neil Ferguson.

73508 ▶▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to RickH, #271 of 1304 🔗

It is straightforward, basic common sense – ‘bleedin’ obvious’ as you put it – and yet so incredibly difficult for people to grasp. You have to laugh at the absurdity of it otherwise despair just sets in.

72748 Edward, 11, #272 of 1304 🔗

Something like this has been posted before, but I’ve added a few bits of my own.

It’s just a mask.
It’s just on public transport.
It’s just in shops and public transport.
It’s just in all enclosed public spaces.
It’s just when you’re out of the house.
It’s just something you put on when you get up in the morning.
It’s just till a vaccine is produced.
It’s just till the virus is eliminated.
It’s just everyone wearing a mask everywhere, for ever.
It’s just control freakery.
It’s just collective insanity.
Or is it just a conspiracy?

72753 NickR, replying to NickR, 10, #273 of 1304 🔗

The BBC today announced 120 Covid 19 deaths for yesterday. This is complete nonsense. This is the change in total deaths reported, most of these relate to weeks or months ago. NHS latest death data is available here https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-daily-deaths/ it shows 14 deaths over the past 3 days in all England hospitals, which include 5 where there was no positive test! That’s fewer than 5 per day!
Look at Cambridge University Centre for Evidence Based Medicine & see their data on hospitalisations and deaths. It shows that the rate of decline of deaths and hospitalisations has been absolutely consistent regardless of the supposed increase in infections.

72810 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to NickR, 3, #274 of 1304 🔗

As the the number of deaths have almost disappeared and have been so low for weeks the numbers on the vertical axis showing total deaths will have to be amended to show increments of 10 not 100

72960 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to stefarm, 2, #275 of 1304 🔗

The other day, one of the graphs had a Y axis that went to 2.5 That’s “Two point Five”, in 0.5 increments. And these were individual deaths, not averages or anything. Damn virus is so sneaky, it can kill half of you!

72875 ▶▶ RickH, replying to NickR, 1, #276 of 1304 🔗

Oxford – not Cambridge 🙂

72757 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 4, #277 of 1304 🔗

This tweet more or less sums up the UK media since March – what they were saying versus what they could have been saying/asking:


(annoyingly the image is pretty small – there doesn’t seem to be a high res version, so the text might be difficult to read)

72773 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Drawde927, #278 of 1304 🔗

Spot on (you’ll have to save pic and look in gallery if you don’t have a dinnertray phone)

Well apart from the covid deaths on the graph which are rather a combo of covid and lockdown deaths but hey….. Not Elon’s fault

72815 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Drawde927, 1, #279 of 1304 🔗

Good reply from someone.

Yeah, just a little tiny bit.
It’s been going on here too (Italy) for 6 months.

And I think the (by now) very many people who are making a good living out of the permanent crisis won’t let it go.

72767 hotrod, 5, #280 of 1304 🔗

If I recall Scottish schools are going back in a couple of weeks.
I wonder if that is driving Boris’s madness.
Another day in Scotland and no deaths.
Sturgeon looks better and better at managing a crisis and if the Scottish schools open and so does everything else it makes England look even more incompetent.
Politically Boris is already finished so I am wondering why he even cares.
Surely someone at Tory HQ is gunning for him, letters to 1922?
Or does Cummings just run everything and even Baker and the ERG have to do what they are told.

72771 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 9, #281 of 1304 🔗

Otley Saturday report . I was scared, very scared as the town is so close to the Bradford lockdown boundary .I expected infected hoards to descent from the slums of Ilkley, roadblocks and temperature checks on the way in with loudhailers shouting “wear a mask even if outdoors”. How wrong can you be . Made unmuzzled purchases from several shops though Spoons was worringly quiet.

72913 ▶▶ Robert West, replying to arfurmo, 1, #282 of 1304 🔗

Otley is a relatively pleasant shopping experience and we visit now and again from Wakefield..

72776 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 7, #283 of 1304 🔗

The message below the Youtube video says ‘RT is funded in whole or in part by the Russian government’. Wikipedia.
So is the BBC.

72779 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to richard riewer, 5, #284 of 1304 🔗

Didn’t you know? Gvt. funding is only acceptable when it’s one of *our*gvt.s

72819 ▶▶ anon, replying to richard riewer, #285 of 1304 🔗

are you talking about the LIVE RT stream from Berlin?

RT are doing their best NOT to show the crowds it would seem. There are thousands upon thousands there!

72868 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to anon, 1, #286 of 1304 🔗

The police keep on getting shouted down there, lol.

72871 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to anon, #287 of 1304 🔗

Arrests being made…

72829 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to richard riewer, 5, #288 of 1304 🔗

I can remember when you trusted the BBC and treated Pravda with about as much seriousness as Benny Hill. Now it’s the other way round.

73028 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Bugle, #289 of 1304 🔗

Pravda living up to its name at last.

72786 stewart, replying to stewart, 5, #290 of 1304 🔗

Does anyone know how to start a Twitter firestorm?

It would be good to create public outrage to get Neil Ferguson dismissed from Imperial College. That would get people’s attention and make them think a bit.

Anyone have any woke friends who can teach them how to stir up some social media outrage?

72822 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to stewart, 2, #291 of 1304 🔗

You clearly don’t know much about Twitter. You might as well suggest getting a head of steam up amount Labour Party members to defenestrate Jeremy Corbyn. There are not enough non woke people on twitter.

72873 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #292 of 1304 🔗

You mean Tory Party members to defenestrate the Cabinet – that shower are the ones that have done the damage, courtesy of the members’ doziness!. 🙂

72790 ScooBieDee, replying to ScooBieDee, 30, #293 of 1304 🔗


From the above article, Carl Heneghan, talking sense yet again…

Professor Carl Henegehan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University, said: “Across the board, normal life is not resuming because we’re still instilling a sense of fear in the community when cases are very low.

“If we didn’t have testing now we wouldn’t even be considering it a problem, because it’s so low. If this was an influenza outbreak, we would have called it finished by now and said we were through this wave, and we would have started to get back to normal.

“We would expect to see sporadic small outbreaks occurring after a major epidemic and, as long as we keep testing, those outbreaks will not get out of control. None of them have led to an overall increase yet.”

72799 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to ScooBieDee, 8, #294 of 1304 🔗

I am so so glad he said the words “If we didn’t have testing”

72816 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to ScooBieDee, 5, #295 of 1304 🔗

He’s on the Spectator Hot Shots Podcast today. Not before time they had someone with some gumption on there as Katy Balls and James Forsyth are a bit damp in the gusset department. Hopefully this indicates a change in tone.

72843 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to ScooBieDee, 3, #296 of 1304 🔗

I guess if we started a ‘don’t get tested, don’t feed the testing monster’ advertising campaign we would be jumped on by the powers that be?
This bowing to the great testing monster is the latest example of many with this virus where officialdom and science have not worked well together and have not really understood each other. There seems to be an acceptance of this testing as if it came down the mountain carved on tablets of stone when really it needs understanding and interpretation which is not happening except for a few exceptions such as Carl Henegan and the CEBM.

73004 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #297 of 1304 🔗

You may recall (it all seems so long ago now) that part of the pressure the media brought to bear in that idiot and big chief idiot (Hancock and Johnson) during the whole “test more test more test more” phase of the pandemic was along the lines of “they do lots of testing in Korea and Germany and their numbers look much better than hours, so clearly testing is an important way to stop people from dying” (I could never think of a logical reason why).

The worship we see at the altar of the god of test now is just people remembering this.

73024 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Steve Martindale, #298 of 1304 🔗

Given that they are not designed as tests, I will not be having one in normal circumstances no matter what. If I’m ill then I’ll rely on fluids and bed rest as for anything else. Only if it worsened to the point that I needed hospital would I accept it, and then only very reluctantly.

72870 ▶▶ RickH, replying to ScooBieDee, 4, #299 of 1304 🔗

Note that Professors Heneghan and Gupta are not in the SAGE group of consistent wrongness and bollocks.

73025 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to RickH, #300 of 1304 🔗

That’s because they’re heretics.

72792 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 3, #301 of 1304 🔗

Just published
Factors determining different death rates because of the COVID-19 outbreak among countries “The results of the current study suggest that the crucial factor was the fast implementation of public events ban

72797 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to swedenborg, 4, #302 of 1304 🔗

Interesting seeing as Whitless et al were claiming before lockdown that this wouldn’t make a difference!

73039 ▶▶ Edward, replying to swedenborg, #303 of 1304 🔗

I thought the crucial factor was the proportion of fatties in the population?

72793 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 12, #304 of 1304 🔗

When did you ever need to “manage” a beach, FFS!

Form The Telegraph live coronavirus feed:

Beaches are becoming “unmanageable” due to large swathes of visitors, local authorities have warned, prompting fears around keeping people safe in the water and social distancing.
Daytrippers are flocking to beaches across the country as many opt for a “staycation” in the UK amid uncertainty over holidays abroad.
The Coastguard had its busiest day for more than four years on Friday – when the UK recorded its third hottest day ever – as it dealt with more than 300 incidents.
In response to the influx, Thanet District Council asked people to avoid four of the area’s beaches, including Margate’s Main Sands, due to the number of visitors.
The Coastguard said the total number of UK incidents was 329, including 232 callouts for coastguard rescue teams, 129 for lifeboats, 22 requiring aircraft and three for a hovercraft.
It comes as Europe’s largest tour operator Tui extended the cancellation of all UK holidays to the Balearic Islands and Canary Islands until August 10 and all holidays to mainland Spain until August 17 following the Government’s decision to impose quarantine on all travellers returning from the country.

72796 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, 23, #305 of 1304 🔗

See I just read this and a massive smile appears on my face and I wanna go outside and dance in the sprinklers.

Managing a beach, just like managing a Summer’s day, is impossible. Fuck the gvt.!

In these hot days is the dissent stirring.

72964 ▶▶▶ Stephen, replying to Farinances, 2, #306 of 1304 🔗

Like trying to manage a virus, I guess.

72906 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 3, #307 of 1304 🔗

Beaches are full and this makes them worried about winter ?

73007 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to annie, 5, #308 of 1304 🔗

Summer causes winter. It’s obvious. If you look at the data, it clearly shows that every single winter has been preceded at least 3 months before by at least one summer. Couldn’t be more clear.

73119 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 1, #309 of 1304 🔗

Seasons have been coming in regular waves just as sure as the earth goes round the sun.

72818 swedenborg, 3, #310 of 1304 🔗

Panama.Death Covid-19 million people 7 day average. Is this a coincidence or not?Panama used HCQ then stopped (WHO,Lancet) then reinstituted it again.See dates for that.

72821 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 19, #311 of 1304 🔗

“Let it rip? On May 4, Armenia decided to put an end to the economically unbearable lockdown. Contagion skyrocketed. Two months later, new cases in are in free fall. The pandemic is running out of susceptible targets. More evidence of COVID-19 herd immunity, at a low threshold
 More and more examples of countries imposing lockdown very early then too costly and give up. Spike afterwards but not exceptional and coming down.

73129 ▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to swedenborg, 2, #312 of 1304 🔗

Interesting that even after May 3rd the transmission rate never exceeded 1.3, which by itself disproves Imperial modelling

72833 Biker, replying to Biker, 30, #313 of 1304 🔗

I was behind this mask-less drunk in the CO-OP today, he was purchasing a large bottle of some kind of Cider. The chick behind the till says that’ll be 6 quid and the poor fellow pulls out a pocket full of change and a stinky old mask from his pocket and dumps it on the counter. Lots ten and twenty pence’s he had to count out. All the while this mask just sits their spreading his bodily fluids over the money and the counter. He scoops up the remaining change and the mask and puts it back in his pocket and meanders off into the day to get pished. Humans are never gonna be able to enact this sterile life they seem to think we all want to keep us safe. Why would we even try?

72937 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Biker, 3, #314 of 1304 🔗


72837 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 18, #315 of 1304 🔗

Way I see it, there are four main explanations for the dystopian nightmare we are living through. These are:

a) Covid-19 is one of the most deadly plagues the world has ever experienced and lockdown is the only rational policy. Or in other words, “they” are right and “we” are wrong. I don’t think this stands up to most scrutiny. The last estimate I saw of the ifr from the CDC was 0.26% so about twice that of seasonal flu (0.1%). It does seem to be highly infectious. However, in the main, it is only dangerous to those in well-defined groups i.e. the very old and/or those with existing health conditions. Surely the logical solution would be to isolate those at most risk and let the rest of the population build immunity?

We also have the example of Sweden, who had very mild voluntary distancing measures. They ended up with less deaths per million than the UK and cases and deaths are now falling away almost to nothing. Yes, they had more deaths per million than their closest neighbours. However, their falling death rates indicates increasing immunity so they will likely have little to fear from subsequent waves and won’t need to quarantine visitors (unlike New Zealand for example). They also have not trampled all over civil liberties or completely destroyed their economy (obviously their economy will still take a hit from the global downturn).

In the whole of human history, I don’t think there has ever been a response to a virus like this. In 1968/69, Hong Kong flu killed between 1-4 million people yet there was no lockdown, people went on with their lives as normal and the human race got through it and carried on. In fact, the WHO themselves advised against lockdowns under any circumstances. In the UK, it is estimated that the lockdown itself may cause 200,000 deaths, far more than the existing toll from Covid (~45,000). If you measure it in terms of life lost the difference is even clearer. The average age of people dying from Covid is about 80. In many countries, the average age of those dying is higher than the life expectancy of the country! That is not the case with those who die because of the lockdown – increase suicides, drug and alcohol abuse will carry away many young people. People who die due to cancer treatments being cancelled or late diagnosis due to screenings not happening, could have had many good years left. How on earth is this a rational response to a disease with a fatality rate well below 1%? This is mass insanity.

b) There is something they are not telling us. Governments around the world know something about Covid we do not. Maybe it’s a bioweapon that will mutate into a more deadly version? I’m no expert in the field but I don’t think the technology exists to create a virus that will mutate on demand after a set period. In fact, from what I understand, any modifications to a virus caused by human meddling actually tends to disappear in the natural course of events. Also, you have the example of Sweden, Belarus, and other countries that have not fully locked down. What happened there? Did they not get the memo?

72851 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Chicot, 22, #316 of 1304 🔗

(Part 2!)

Ok, so now we have the 2 likeliest explanations.

c) Global incompetence aided and abetted by groupthink. Until recently I believed this, as the alternative was both harder to believe and more frightening. The problem with this is how widespread these lockdowns are, even in countries that have little to no Covid deaths. There’s also the strange case of the care-homes. In many countries, suspected Covid cases were sent back into care-homes where they infected the most vulnerable and huge numbers of deaths were the result. This happened again and again, even though this should have been obvious from the beginning, certainly after it had happened in other countries. Why is the deathcount being exaggerated in so many countries? Why is there unprecedented censorship? Why are so many countries still imposing draconian lockdowns even though cases and deaths are plummeting? What is the worst that can happen? Why are we getting more and more restrictions on our liberty when the danger is receding?

d) Global conspiracy. I avoided this idea for some time as it seems the “craziest” option and is also the most sinister. However, for me at least, this is the only way I can get the pieces of the puzzle to fit together. In this theory, everything being done is to make life so unbearable for the masses that they will be desperate for the vaccine and will put pressure on any “anti-vaxxers” who refuse to take this rushed, experimental treatment. Start from this assumption and things make sense. The horrendous deathcounts in care homes were not accidental, they were intentional. The grossly exaggerated deathcounts are also intentional. The more deaths, the more justification for lockdowns, the more harsh restrictions the populace will accept in order to keep them “safe”. Take away the care home deaths and the overcounting and, in many cases, you’d be left with no more than an average flu season. The changing goalposts are intentional. Lockdowns must continue until the vaccine. First, it was to avoid overloading the health services, then it was to lower the deathcount, now it seems we must continue until there is not a single Covid case (obviously unachievable). The rubbishing of any potential treatments like hcq is intentional – if there is an effective treatment, the need for lockdowns and the vaccine diminish. The unprecented censorship of any alternative viewpoints is intentional. This is why Sweden has been vilified. Any suggestion that there is any alternative must be crushed.

There are 2 main objections to this view: 1) You’d need so many people in on it, it wouldn’t be possible or would get leaked, 2) Why would anyone want to do this?

For 1), I don’t believe you need absolutely everyone in on this. All you need is a few people in high places and a lot of “useful idiots” (and there’s no shortage of those!). Some politicians are in on it, most are not and will simply believe anything that Fauci or the WHO tell them.

2) is difficult. Why would any sane person want to do this? What needs to be remembered is that the people at the top of the tree are not exactly “sane”. They do not think the same way as normal people so do not have the same motivations. What sort of normal people sit around thinking about how they see the future of the human race in the next few years? And yet not only do these people do this, they actually produce material explaining this. It’s all out there in plain sight – id2020, agenda 2021 etc… The question is not whether they want a technocracy or not, we already know this. The question is whether they have the power and influence to do this. I think we are beginning to see the answer to that question.

72859 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Chicot, 7, #317 of 1304 🔗

Thanks. Plenty to think about. Remember though, we need to differentiate between deaths WITH coronavirus and deaths FROM (caused by) coronavirus. I strongly suspect most are the former, in just about every country.

72925 ▶▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to Tenchy, 4, #318 of 1304 🔗

Exactly. They are cooking the books. Why are governments all over the world trying to increase the deathcounts?

73150 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Chicot, 1, #319 of 1304 🔗

To scare people into accepting the vaccines and covipass..

72864 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Chicot, 8, #320 of 1304 🔗

Interesting analysis.

I’ve always had problems with simplistic conspiracy explanations. But if you reduce the idea to the common-or-garden “Cui bono?” or – even more simply “Follow the money”, and link it to the simple idea of privileged networks, the whole thing of “conspiracy” becomes a lot less unusual. The links are pretty obvious in this case.

Add in control of media, group-think, pole-climbing and sheer stupidity, and you’ve got what we’ve got, even using Occam’s razor to give it a shave.

73152 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 1, #321 of 1304 🔗

Exactly. Although the link between IG Farben (now Moderna, making a Covid vaccine), Soros and Epstein was a new discovery for me this evening..

72880 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Chicot, 7, #322 of 1304 🔗

The motive that eludes you is really about control in the face of global chaos. It’s been pretty obvious since at least 2008 that the global financial system as it stands is unsustainable and when the dollar based system collapses it can either go with massive emmiseration and conflict or, the plan goes, it can be achieved by uniting the world under a new global order, a “reset.”
The idea is to minimise the chaos and panic by drip feeding a lesser case virus into retiring humanity to see the benefit and necessity of a global state.
Yes sounds Cooky but it’s what has been discussed fairly openly amongst those with power and influence. The WHO was a perfect vehicle to override national government autonomy as virtually all UN members are signatories and are required to be guided by their instructions during a pandemic. Hence you see the likes of Fauci and Whitty basically running policy.

72949 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Chicot, 5, #323 of 1304 🔗

I think one way to view it is as a kind of religion.

Homo sapiens has always been curious and wanted to figure out how to control things. This is great and has led to science and technology. But we also often don’t know where to stop.

We want to understand things so much that once we’ve run out of data we tend to create deities to explain what is still unknown and systems of rituals (often involving unnecessary sacrifice as if that were a virtue in itself) to control what is still uncontrollable.

We do understand the pandemic quite well but we can’t control it, and there is a strong religious desire not to just accept the sad truth that it is what it is and people will die. The only story that has a happy ending is the vaccine story. Never mind that we have already killed thousands more by the overreaction than the mere virus would ever have managed on its own.

The vaccine might work and save lives and that’s all good and I approve of vaccine research. But the reason everyone wants to believe in it so much is essentially religious. This might be the only thing that’s binding everyone together in this belief system. It doesn’t need a conspiracy: religions are a lot like viruses and spread by themselves.

We’ve commented before on how the media loves fear porn. But they never scaremonger about vaccines (and there are some very rational concerns about them). It’s not just fear that’s driving them. They aren’t cynical nihilists who just want to scare everyone. They want to believe in this myth of scientism, and, like all good religions, it contains enough that is close enough to the truth for people to believe in it.

75101 ▶▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to guy153, #324 of 1304 🔗

The world has not had a world war since the second world war, now ‘we’ are supposed to be ‘fighting’ this enemy even if it is invisible. Gives the useful idiots

a default war footing to go mental. And we know how a good war resets economies.

73149 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Chicot, 1, #325 of 1304 🔗

Re d) , See Rockefeller Lockstep plan…

73163 ▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to Chicot, 1, #326 of 1304 🔗

Mostly (c) but a bit of (d) is likely, on reflection. The WHO is heavily influenced by China and both have a common enemy in Trump whose re-election looked increasingly likely following the failure of various attempts by the deep state to evict him from office. Covid provided an opportunity for both to assert themselves via their natural allies in the US government against him. Shared hatred especially of the Judeo-Christian values underpinning, and supported in turn by, his presidency also brings in people like Soros, Gates and the BBC’s political commentators.

72903 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Chicot, 1, #327 of 1304 🔗

I’ve been thinking about b). I feel like it’s the only explanation. My bet is that it’s an accidental release from a Chinese lab (so no conspiracy theories needed, since that kind of leak has happened before). Govts around the world are panicking because it’s not a natural virus, so they don’t have a clue how it will behave or what it will do next.

72924 ▶▶▶ Chicot, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #328 of 1304 🔗

But then how do you explain Sweden, Belarus and other countries that refused to lockdown.

72932 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Chicot, 3, #329 of 1304 🔗

Some countries have (a) better politicians and/or (b) more deeply embedded notions of democratic safeguards.

The bullshit about the UK’s ‘democratic’ traditions has always been self-promotion, not reality. I’ve always reckoned that, if Hitler had crossed the Channel, this country would have been well up in the league of hospitable environments, given the links amongst the establishment.

Fortunately, it didn’t happen, and the better instincts won out in 1945.

72965 ▶▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Chicot, #330 of 1304 🔗

Belarus – not sure, other than Luka-whatsisname seems like he wouldn’t take any nonsense from anyone and is generally contrarian.

Sweden – they still did a lot more than you would expect for something like this. And Tegnell looked genuinely rather worried at times. They just didn’t panic quite so badly.

I don’t know, it might not be that – I just feel like there must be something that we don’t know…

73008 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to A. Contrarian, 5, #331 of 1304 🔗

Sweden played by the normal pandemic handbook. You can argue that that wasn’t warranted as it isn’t a true pandemic, but they did ‘the right thing’. So many other countries decided to follow China, despite having completely different government systems and despite the fact that China didn’t follow conventional procedures for a pandemic at all. The reckoning for these contemptible governments is coming, and they’re not going to like it one bit.

73001 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Chicot, 4, #332 of 1304 🔗

If you look at all causes mortality, Sweden is barely above Denmark and considerably below Finland, while Scotland (in many ways comparable to those nations) is far, far above Finland. Interesting no?

72839 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 13, #333 of 1304 🔗

Telegraph quote “The ONS also admitted that it was unable to spot any regional differences”. Local lockdowns promoted by PHE. Presumably they are better at processing data than the ONS.

72856 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Polemon2, 4, #334 of 1304 🔗

Given the findings of the CEBM Group on data from PHE, that’s the laugh of the week!

72861 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Polemon2, 9, #335 of 1304 🔗

C L O W N W O R L D ©2020

72848 Polemon2, 14, #336 of 1304 🔗

Positive tests, 59 out of 116,026. Previous week 45 out of 114,674. That is a 30% increase in one week. Obviously something has to be done quickly.
Oh wait, that is a move from 0.039% to 0.05%. that is still a miniscule amount.
No it is 30% you must DO SOMETHING.
No that would be an unreasonable over-reaction.
That is what you said before the initial lockdown and now the media are telling you how wrong you were. Do you want that to happen again?
I suppose we should do something then. Can we limit it to places where we are sure to lose seats at the next election?…………………………..

72860 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 16, #337 of 1304 🔗

“..the course of the disease appears no better than in Sweden, which has carried on near normal (the OECD expects 2020 GDP -6.7%).”

Capital Economics now expects only – 1.5% for Sweden.
And its support programs amounted to only 9% of GDP and will probably not even be drawn upon in full.
Even if, that means that the private sector contracted by 10% in 2020, skewed towards large exporters.

Whilst in the UK, Germany, France et.al, the private sectir will with their respective numbers have contracted by 25% in 2020, skewed towards small and medium sized domestic businesses.

72878 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #338 of 1304 🔗

Swedish Q2 GDP comes out next Wednesday, ours a week later. It’ll be a certainly interesting comparison.

72897 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to DRW, 4, #339 of 1304 🔗

The problem is, of course, that no economy can isolate itself in this situation – only ameliorate.

72930 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to RickH, 1, #340 of 1304 🔗

Indeed, and especially not trade-oriented Sweden. Some factories were still closed because of no supply. And I think shops and restaurants did reduced hours as well so there will be a hit from that. But I expect the recovery will be stronger from that than a complete full stop.

72862 Liam, replying to Liam, 12, #341 of 1304 🔗

Bear with me for asking a silly question, but how exactly does the bbc compile its grossly misleading “daily death totals” when hospitals are reporting hardly any?

I understand completely that the attribution of Covid as cause of death is often nonsense, I want someone to explain to me clearly how they come up with these nonsensical totals as I STILL don’t understand it.

72863 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Liam, 8, #342 of 1304 🔗

Well; they take the actual number, put it through a Neil Ferguson model and….
Hey presto

Or if they thing the actual number looks wrong or inconvenient they just put the number they think it should be in

72881 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Liam, 6, #343 of 1304 🔗

In this case it’s not so much the BBC to blame for the fiction, it’s various elements of government. Today we have four deaths reported in hospitals, but 74 deaths overall. The question, then, is where did the 70 other deaths occur? Care homes, hospices, private homes? But surely, if the virus is about to see you off, you’d be in hospital, most likely on a ventilator, or is this assessment too simplistic? I assume what’s going on here is that the 70 extra deaths weren’t caused by bat flu at all, but were caused by some other condition, but the patient had a positive bat flu test. This situation, if true, is a scandal.

72887 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 3, #344 of 1304 🔗

That about sums it up!

72893 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Tenchy, 2, #345 of 1304 🔗

It’s still not clear to me whether people even need a positive test to be counted as a Covid death or just a reported suspicion/likelihood/ vague hunch….

72898 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Liam, #346 of 1304 🔗

The latter in many cases. Never believe any numbers pretending to deail ‘Covid’ deaths.

72977 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to RickH, 2, #347 of 1304 🔗

ONS states:

Yep and yet still:

Coronavirus (COVID-19) deaths are those deaths registered in England and Wales in the stated week where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate. A doctor can certify the involvement of COVID-19 based on symptoms and clinical findings – a positive test result is not required.

72914 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Liam, 6, #348 of 1304 🔗

Precisely. Look at this extract, again from The Telegraph coronavirus live feed (my emphasis):

Further four hospital deaths in England

A further four people who tested positive for the coronavirus have died in hospital in England, bringing the total number of confirmed reported deaths in hospitals to 29,342, NHS England said.

Patients were aged between 78 and 84 years old and all had known underlying health conditions.

Another five deaths were reported with no positive Covid-19 test result.

It beggars belief. How are they getting away with this?

73294 ▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Liam, 1, #349 of 1304 🔗

The NHS separate the categories. In the past 3 days there were, in all hospitals in England, 9 deaths of people with a positive test & 5 who were deemed to have died of covid but not tested. That’s over 30% guessed!

72908 ▶▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to Tenchy, 5, #350 of 1304 🔗

I read somewhere that the body won’t be released quickly if it hasn’t got covid on the death certificate so pressure is out there on grieving families to agree to a Covid death even if it isn’t true at all. Might be a rumour of course.

72963 ▶▶▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #351 of 1304 🔗

I think there should be some independent market research to speak/analyse with those that verify deaths.

73020 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Keen Cook, 3, #352 of 1304 🔗

Families are certainly being pressured to accept the Covid lie, and are being overridden if they object.
Anecdotal, but comes from several sources.

73419 ▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Keen Cook, #353 of 1304 🔗

That’s true.
Happened to a friend of mine whose mother died at home after being released from hospital following 2 negative tests. ‘ Covid’ on the death certificate allowed the body to be released quickly for a funeral.

72927 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Castro, replying to Tenchy, 2, #354 of 1304 🔗

They were reported in the Sun as being between 78 – 84 years old.

72886 ▶▶ Fenlander, replying to Liam, #355 of 1304 🔗

The numbers are coming from PHE. Considering the low figures coming from the NHS (hospital deaths) Scotland and Wales – both zero I think yesterday – you can infer that 90% of the current daily deaths are care homes or at home.

PHE numbers were supposed to be suspended while the over-reporting for classing anyone who ever had CV19 and dies as being a CV death was investigated, but this is the source according to the gov.uk website.

72892 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Liam, 7, #356 of 1304 🔗

You will not usually get an accurate picture via the BBC. The odd occasion, like that Newsnight report on the north of England imaginary ‘spikes’, was an exception

72920 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Liam, 4, #357 of 1304 🔗

I assume it’s the same way Wankock invents numbers as he goes along.

72935 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Liam, 2, #358 of 1304 🔗

The BBC report the increase in deaths from the prior day not the number of deaths from the prior day. Most of the deaths reported by the BBC will have occurred weeks if not months ago.

72866 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 14, #359 of 1304 🔗

Reflections on today’s itv racing coverage.

IMO clear propaganda/brainwashing on the agenda. Apart from presenters socially distancing all other presenters and jockeys masked when being interviewed, jockeys clearly uncomfortable with it as some kept fiddling with mask and holding it in place. All people in background also masked and clearly walking out of shot if not masked or clearly putting a mask on if in danger of being seen

Main presenter regularly mentioning social distancing i.e. ‘great to see people, all socially distancing of course’, smile to camera.

Big song and dance about a spitfire flying over with an NHS message painted on it, mention of names of the fabulous NHS staff to be nominated and painted on the spitfire for future fly pasts. Personally I’d rather see the names of the elderly killed by the NHS and released to care home to die on a spitfire or memorial.

1 other pundit saying that probably a good idea that 5k public not allowed to attend as if they spread virus it would be a catastrophe. MD of Goodwood hoping to be back to normal on 2022.

Clearly getting desperate and trying to maintain fear as the tide is turning.

72996 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to stefarm, 4, #360 of 1304 🔗

🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 Sickening stuff, and desperate as you say.

72869 A Meshiea, replying to A Meshiea, 27, #361 of 1304 🔗

It has dawned on me that the behavioural scientists are helping to push policy through their understanding of torture as a method to exert total control over the population.

Basic psychology of torture.
You create a master slave bond more effectively when you restrict freedoms then relieve them rewarding them (even if the victims don’t now what they did to deserve the reprieve).
This is done to various levels of severity preferably unexpectedly and with little or no underlying rationality.
This keeps the captives or slaves in a constant state of stress and trains them to react to every instruction no matter how ridiculous.
Other methods include humiliation like forcing/instructing the victims to dress in certain clothing, to threaten their lives and those of their loved ones if they fail to comply, or to inflict more misery. To control movement and confine to small spaces, to isolate from other human interactions, to prevent medical attention when needed.

This is well documented stuff, nothing these sadists in behavioural science wouldn’t be well versed in.
Welcome to the training camp

72883 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to DRW, 4, #363 of 1304 🔗

“Control over victims face”
That was hooding in Gitmo, it’s masking on Covid1984…

72888 ▶▶▶▶ Mark H, replying to A Meshiea, #364 of 1304 🔗

It’s also masking in Gitmo. Do a google image search.

72912 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to DRW, 1, #365 of 1304 🔗

From today’s off guardian as it relates to Coercion, I think it relates well to the phenomenon we see now and the astonishing failure of rational counter arguments to get through (apologies if this is too long)

“Sargant found that a falsely implanted memory could help induce abnormal stress leading to emotional exhaustion and physical breakdown to invoke “suggestibility”. That is, one didn’t even need to have a “real stress” but an “imagined stress” would work just as effectively.

“It is not surprising that the ordinary person, in general, is much more easily indoctrinated than the abnormal…A person is considered ‘ordinary’ or ‘normal’ by the community simply because he accepts most of its social standards and behavioural patterns; which means, in fact, that he is susceptible to suggestion and has been persuaded to go with the majority on most ordinary or extraordinary occasions.

Orwell further states:
It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments…and of being bored or repelled by any train of thought which is capable of leading in a heretical direction. Crimestop in short, means protective stupidity.”

“Blackwhite”, is the act of contradiction of plain facts,
it means the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past…The alteration of the past is necessary for two reasons […] The subsidiary reason is that…he must be cut off from the past, just as he must be cut off from foreign countries, because it is necessary for him to believe that he is better off… [the precautionary reason] by far the more important reason for the readjustment of the past is the need to safeguard the infallibility of the Party.

The splitting of the intelligence which the Party requires of its members, and which is more easily achieved in an atmosphere of war, is now almost universal, but the higher up the ranks one goes, the more marked it becomes. It is precisely in the Inner Party that war hysteria and hatred of the enemy (virus and deniers) are strongest.

The process has to be conscious, or it would not be carried out with sufficient precision, but it also has to be unconscious, or it would bring with it a feeling of falsity and hence guilt…To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies – all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink.

72995 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to A Meshiea, 5, #366 of 1304 🔗

I always knew there was a good reason I’m a relative social outcast.

On an unrelated note, my phone’s predictive text thingy always ‘corrects’ social to suicidal (except oddly enough, that time just then) – should I be worried?

73016 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 4, #367 of 1304 🔗

Evidently your phone needs psychiatric help.

73074 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to annie, 1, #368 of 1304 🔗

Gave me a laugh – thanks!

73308 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, 1, #369 of 1304 🔗

The virtual couch.

73015 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to A Meshiea, 5, #370 of 1304 🔗

So we’re abnormal.
Wear the badge with pride!

73247 ▶▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to annie, 1, #371 of 1304 🔗

We are the 1 in 10

72876 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 7, #372 of 1304 🔗

These gits are NEVER going to give up!! The Telegraph coronavirus live feed:

Hard decisions ahead as October second wave probable, says scientific adviser

There will probably be a second wave of coronavirus in October in the UK and “some hard decisions will need to be made about what restrictions need to be reintroduced”, a scientist advising the Government has said.

The BBC reports that Prof Calum Semple, who is a member of the advisory group Sage, made the comments after another scientific adviser said pubs or “other activities” in England may need to close to allow schools to reopen next month.

Prof Semple, from the University of Liverpool, said whether pubs or the hospitality sector will be “taking a hit in preference to education will be a political decision.”

72902 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tenchy, 16, #373 of 1304 🔗

Their audacity is breathtaking, we need a much bigger legal challenge or several strategic litigations, it doesn’t help that our opposition is about as much use as an ashtray on a motorcycle, by rights they should be doing this job.

72921 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BecJT, 12, #374 of 1304 🔗

I notice that Semple is yet another virologist.

It seems essential that both epidemiologists and virologists need to be looked at very critically, given the attention-seeking behaviour (rather than real scientific ability) on display in many cases.

There does seem to be a dangerous subset following in the Ferguson mould of lacking basic scientific skills in terms of assessing data and making a connection with the real world. Having a PhD or holding a professorship are not sufficient conditions for being let loose outside a narrow realm of research.

72966 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to RickH, 8, #375 of 1304 🔗

Funny you should say that. Immunologists don’t seem too bad, but they defer totally to the epidemiologists and modellers when it comes to calculating number of deaths, herd immunity threshold, etc. And that’s the difficulty: epidemiologists don’t include what the immunologists know, in their models. The epidemiologists stick to the same SIR model they learned about in their first ever lecture on modelling, merely embellishing it as time goes on, and don’t even know that the immune system has continuous, variable mechanisms for adapting to low doses of viruses, building up resistance and immunity without necessarily strong symptoms or the production of antibodies. It’s a joke. They get it totally wrong – as we see with Neil Ferguson EVERY TIME .

73021 ▶▶▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Barney McGrew, 5, #376 of 1304 🔗

Then there are pathologists like Dr. John Lee and immunologist Beda Stadler. Presentations by these gentlemen may be found on YouTube

72904 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 13, #377 of 1304 🔗

You really couldn’t make up this shit.

Let’s translate :

“We’re so much enjoying the limelight that we can’t let it go. We’ll need to ramp up any old infection this autumn as a major threat. Let’s start the softening up, now!”

73014 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to RickH, 3, #378 of 1304 🔗

No need to soften the zombies.They await the 2W as some barmy sects await the end of the world: quite undeterred by the endless postponements.

73312 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #379 of 1304 🔗

JohnsonTown massacre.

72915 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Tenchy, 5, #380 of 1304 🔗

So, presumably the people being infected in pubs equals number of people being infected in schools and the overall number will then stay the same.
Since they are all closed, there can be no data whatsoever on school attendance related infections but who is keeping the statistics for pub related infections ? We need to know.

72975 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, 3, #381 of 1304 🔗

Agh shit they mentioned October.

73143 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #382 of 1304 🔗

Why October?

73212 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Carrie, 3, #383 of 1304 🔗

End of furlough.

73309 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tenchy, #384 of 1304 🔗

Semple Simon Said.

72877 Basics, replying to Basics, 7, #385 of 1304 🔗

Police Scotland’s last two chiefs resigned stating their job was untenable given the political meddling coming from the Government, who happen to be SNP.

Today we have this vile statement:
Police chief urges Scots to avoid northern England after coronavirus surge

Whilst the police have no enforcement powers, they are asking Scots to avoid areas of England which have seen a spike in Covid-19 cases


Boycott Scotland.

72882 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 5, #386 of 1304 🔗

What the bloody hell has that got to do with the police?

72953 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 3, #387 of 1304 🔗

Going to go out on a limb and say rank and file police scotland employee are lost and for want of a better word unhappy. The trades body tge scot pol federation are endlessly defending their members, 99% of scot police employees against snp diktats. The high ups in scot police are bastards political arse lickers. I do not understsnd their value system but suggest NLP has altered their capacity to cognitively act in accordance with moral norms.

Rank and file see it. They are too cowardly to voice. Like nhs staff too. With odd exception – in nhs not police scot apart from the two consecutive resigninations.

72900 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Basics, 3, #388 of 1304 🔗

You have to be worried when this is the level of intelligence on display at the top level of the police!

72941 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Basics, 8, #389 of 1304 🔗

Stephen Reicher, Professor of Social Psychology (not medicine, please note) at St Andrews University, who apparently advises both Johnson and Crankie about their response to covid19, thinks the strategy should be zero-covid – a refusal to believe in any acceptable level of covid infections and deaths in the community. I read that in The National, which is right behind the Scottish government. No wonder we’re in this mess when professors of social psychology set themselves up as experts on viruses.

72972 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 2, #390 of 1304 🔗

Already do.
They can fuck off. (Preferably to the arms of their beloved EU where they belong)

73317 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Farinances, #391 of 1304 🔗

Most of Johnson’s cabinet would be able to easily transition to employment with the EU.

73316 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #392 of 1304 🔗

Put down that bottle of Scotch Whisky and buy Gin instead.

72909 DRW, replying to DRW, 6, #393 of 1304 🔗

Does anyone else suspect that MSM have been ‘allowed’ to put out some skeptical articles just so the 77s can brigade the comments?

72911 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DRW, 9, #394 of 1304 🔗

They’ve certainly been out in force since Thursday evening. No normal person writes such puerile drivel.

72944 ▶▶ Basics, replying to DRW, 3, #395 of 1304 🔗


72910 Cheezilla, 10, #396 of 1304 🔗

Reading the comments in Janet Dayley’s excellent article:


Here’s a worrying one:

A friend of my daughter’s is in the Royal Marines…..he told her they were ordered at the end of 2019 to prepare for civil disturbance in the UK in 2020.

Though I can’t say I’m in any way surprised. They made it clear back in March that they had 20,000 spare troops hanging around.

My friend asked about our local lockdown and when I told her the stats, she noted that HMG’s action is provocative.

72917 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #397 of 1304 🔗

The medical situation seems pretty much done and dusted. It has been surprising how much confidence the medical profession has placed in their ability to create a vaccine for covid 19. That is because they know that a tried and tested safe vaccine already exists. They just have to complete testing, not a quick process:

‘The BCG vaccine has the potential to activate the immune response against the viral infection. The severity of the COVID-19 pandemic is very low with a slower spread in those countries that have the universal BCG immunization program. Australia, Germany, USA, etc., started the clinical trial of the BCG vaccine in Health Care Workers and the Elderly Population to prevent the infection of COVID-19. The correlation of BCG vaccination with COVID-19 has shown fewer confirmed cases with low mortality and a high recovered rate in universal BCG immunization countries.’


‘The current evidence about BCG vaccination and prevention of acute respiratory infections is of high quality, as it is supported by results from 2 systematic reviews (one including meta-analysis) and 4 RCTs, which provide a high level of evidence for prevention studies.’


So all we are witnessing now is simply pure politics, red in tooth and claw.

The main goal of the British Government is a good Brexit deal. That has just been put off until end October so the UK Prime Minister has accordingly dialled back on normality by Christmas. Britain will not get back to normality until the government is certain that the Brexit deal is working well…..unlikely before spring 2021 at the earliest. Quarantines etc to pressurise eu members in the meantime.

Over the other side of the Atlantic, the Democratic Party, and its serried ranks of media supporters, including the bbc and sky, both linked to U.S. companies contributing to Democratic party funds, is concentrating on the 03 November U.S Presidential election. So the hysteria in the U.S. and within our own state broadcaster and its major domestic competitor will continue at least until then. Because ‘weaponising’ covid 19 is the preferred strategy to remove Trump via trashing the U.S. economy……

What happens thereafter will very much depend on the result of that election.

Still, there’s always Bob Hope…oh, hang on…….

72923 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #398 of 1304 🔗

You missed out a caveat :

There is a lack of evidence that BCG vaccine protects against COVID-19.”


72926 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to RickH, 1, #399 of 1304 🔗

Yes exactly. I read the article to see what the evidence was… And it said there basically isn’t any except that mortality seems to be about half in countries that BCG everyone. But there could be other reasons for that. And you’d hope that a vaccine would work a bit better than only halving mortality.

72945 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to guy153, 4, #400 of 1304 🔗

The flu vaccine varies between 30% – 60% so not too dissimilar

73032 ▶▶▶▶▶ janis pennance, replying to Sarigan, 2, #401 of 1304 🔗

Actually in 2017 /18 I think it was ..it was 15% efficacy Whoop whoop

73043 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to janis pennance, 2, #402 of 1304 🔗

Flu was exceptionally bad in Australia last year – 120,000 laboratory confirmed cases in South Australia alone, and thousands of deaths Australia wide. Compare that to the Australian coronavirus numbers and marvel at the stupidity. The only difference I can see in the way they’ve acted is that they actually care about this virus for some reason.

73072 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 2, #403 of 1304 🔗

The care about this virus, because they are using it to control populations.

73244 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to janis pennance, #404 of 1304 🔗

Didn’t people who’d had the flu vaccine get worse covid symptoms? Mind you they were probably in the vulnerable category.

72994 ▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to guy153, 4, #405 of 1304 🔗

Most of us of the vulnerable age will have had the BCG vaccination at school. So if it is a protection against COVID why are so many of this age group dying?

73012 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to davews, 1, #406 of 1304 🔗

A study suggested immunity conferred only lasts approx. 60 years

‘Another controlled trial stated the efficacy of the BCG vaccine with long term protection, approximately 60 years of age after vaccination.’


Also underlying health conditions/treatment may suppress any immunity conferred.

And given net immigration every year of 400,000 every year since 1998, that is potentially 12 million immigrants of various ages who may or may not have had BCG vaccination.

73166 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ davews, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #407 of 1304 🔗

Well that’s OK then, jabs when I was 12 or so, 71 now, so at least a year left….

73249 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to davews, #408 of 1304 🔗

I should have at least 5 to go.

73392 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to davews, #409 of 1304 🔗

I very much doubt that anyone BCG vaccinated and not immunosuppressed has anything to worry about, either from covid 19 or TB:

‘Analysis by decade yielded efficacies of 54%, 62%, 62%, 12%, and 48%. This suggests a slight waning over time that was statistically significant in men but not in women’


Those too young to have been BCG vaccinated have plenty of time to wait for the BCG vaccination trials to complete. But, by then, it will have become abundantly clear that covid 19 is no more dangerous than any other ILI (Influenza Like Illness) from which, by the way, I have twice contracted pneumonia (the first time aged 19, super fit) prior to the arrival of covid 19.

A great pity that Corporal Jones is not Prime Minister and that Private Fraser should have been promoted to Health Minister, a grave error in so many different ways….

73038 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to guy153, 2, #410 of 1304 🔗

Yes. Grasping at straws is no counter to straw men 🙂

72934 ▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to RickH, 6, #411 of 1304 🔗

Lack of evidence? Like using masks then.

73036 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Polemon2, 2, #412 of 1304 🔗


72951 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, 3, #413 of 1304 🔗

You must have missed this bit:

‘They just have to complete testing, not a quick process:

‘Australia, Germany, USA, etc., started the clinical trial of the BCG vaccine in Health Care Workers and the Elderly Population to prevent the infection of COVID-19.’

Reference above

And this bit:

‘‘The current evidence about BCG vaccination and prevention of acute respiratory infections is of high quality’

Reference above.

Re evidence

‘We review evidence for a potential biological basis of BCG cross-protection from severe COVID-19, and refine the epidemiological analysis to mitigate effects of potentially confounding factors’

‘Results fail to confirm the null hypothesis of no association between BCG vaccination and COVID-19 mortality, and suggest that BCG could have a protective effect. Nevertheless, the analyses are restricted to coarse-scale signals and should be considered with caution. BCG vaccination clinical trials are required to corroborate the patterns detected here, and to establish causality between BCG vaccination and protection from severe COVID-19.’


So, some testing required……or did I already mention that…..

‘Currently 3 clinical trials are active and recruiting to determine if BCG vaccination protects healthcare workers (HCW) during the COVID-19 pandemic; BRACE is a phase III RCT, conducted in Australia, that will recruit up to 4170 HCW to determine if the BCG vaccine reduces incidence and severity of COVID-19 [35]; and BCG-CORONA is another phase III RCT, conducted in the Netherlands, that will enrol up to 1500 HCW to reduce absenteeism among HCW with direct patient contacts during the COVID-19 [36]; and the BADAS study , a phase 4 randomized trial, is conducted in the US to determine if the BCG vaccine for healthcare workers acts as a defence against COVID-19, which will enrol 1800 participants’


73035 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 4, #414 of 1304 🔗

Indeed. But I believe in consistency. My criticism of this whole Covid scam is that it has not adhered to basic principles of evidence-based medicine. The principles of rational enquiry hold across the board.

Remember – similar claims for a vaccine will start emerging soon.

73076 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, 1, #415 of 1304 🔗

This is a vaccine, tried and tested.

I believe in evidence……but evidence requires a hypothesis to support, and this is a hypothesis based on documented prevention against acute respiratory infections.

A null hypothesis of no association between BCG vaccination and COVID-19 mortality has not been confirmed.

As a consequence, three (expensive) reputable clinical trials have been commissioned.

High time for all and sundry to recognise that the ‘precautionary principle’ is the last refuge of a charlatan; already responsible for thousands (and counting) of lives lost before their time.

73083 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #416 of 1304 🔗

Re Vaccines, just seen this about Moderna who are making one of them: https://twitter.com/gingerfella4/status/1289617017847205888

Links to Fauci, Gates, IG Farben, Soros and Epstein…
I did not know that Soros owned IG Farben (company that made zyklon B use in the Nazi concentration camps) and then rebranded it as Moderna..

73390 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Carrie, #417 of 1304 🔗

Regarding BCG trials:
‘It is possible that BCG-Tokyo would be preferable to BCG-Danish.’

The Lancet April 30, 2020

‘BCG Vaccination to Protect Healthcare Workers Against COVID-19 (BRACE)

Murdoch Childrens Research Institute

Royal Children’s Hospital

Information provided by (Responsible Party):
Murdoch Childrens Research Institute’


Reducing Health Care Workers Absenteeism in Covid-19 Pandemic Through BCG Vaccine (BCG-CORONA)
UMC Utrecht

Radboud University

Information provided by (Responsible Party):
MJM Bonten, UMC Utrecht’


Prof. Dr. M.J.M. (Marc ) Bonten
‘He acts as paid consultant for Janssen Vaccines (payments to UMC Utrecht) and Merck Sharp & Dohme B.V. (payments to UMC Utrecht).
He has received speakers fee from Takeda (Nov 2019).
He is a member of the Expertpanel of the Stichting Dierenautoriteit Nederland.
He is a member of the cluster Infectieziektenbestrijding from ZorgOnderzoek Nederland.
He is a member of the Scientific Advisory Board of GARDP (Global Antibiotic Research & Development Platform).’

University of Utrecht

Janssen Vaccines are owned by Johnson & Johnson.

“In order to go fast, Johnson & Johnson – the people of Johnson & Johnson – are committed to do this and all together we say we’re going to do this not for profit. That’s the fastest and the best way to find all the collaborations in the world to make this happen so we commit to bring this at a not-for-profit level.’

Dr Paul Stoffels, J & J Chief Scientific Officer

73320 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #418 of 1304 🔗

Bob ‘Join the Peace Corps’ Hope? My mother worked as a maid for a rich Mormon family in Toluca Lake in the early 60s. The Hope family lived just next door. Thanks for the memory…

72918 A Meshiea, replying to A Meshiea, 8, #419 of 1304 🔗

My lovely wife just sent this to me regarding HCQ from Newsweek. Did you guys see this. I missed it but apparently the basis for one state governor challenging for the right of doctors in his state to use this treatment.

The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It | Opinion HARVEY A. RISCH, MD, PHD , PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH
ON 7/23/20 AT 7:00 AM EDT


72983 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to A Meshiea, 5, #420 of 1304 🔗

He is saying that there is massmurder being committed in the USA. That is pretty tough.

73079 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to A Meshiea, 4, #421 of 1304 🔗

I just saw a post on Twitter saying that the reason for doing everything possible to ‘rubbish’ hydoxychloroquine is that *if* there is a treatment available, then (in the USA at least) they cannot circumvent the rules for vaccines, ie claim there is an emergency and get fast approval to use it.. Someone put it on Simon Dolan’s Twitter feed..

72919 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 19, #423 of 1304 🔗

Great new names for Whitty and Vallance in the Telegraph comments: TWhitty and Bedspread. I can’t think of them as anything else now.

72969 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to A. Contrarian, 7, #424 of 1304 🔗

Bedspread 😂 😂
Twhitty is niiiice. Whitless is my own personal ….. Thing.
Next week I’m gonna be Crispy Whitless wherever I go

73141 ▶▶ AllieT, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #425 of 1304 🔗

Love it …. needed a laugh

72922 bluemoon, replying to bluemoon, 10, #426 of 1304 🔗

Ive just been watching the coverage of the mass gathering in Berlin, it was strange to see so many people gathered together. I guess you’d have to go to a beach in southern England to see that many people in one place. I was hoping to see muzzle burning bonfires but then I realised nobody except the police was wearing one.
So what the heck have the Germans got to demonstrate against?!

72940 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to bluemoon, #427 of 1304 🔗

If they were fewer, they would be jailed… doh…

73218 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to bluemoon, 3, #428 of 1304 🔗

Perhaps they’re more sensitive about totalitarianism.

72928 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 3, #429 of 1304 🔗

Off to the pub tonight and whilst the governor is pretty laid back last time we visited he did request out names for t&t. I know I can opt out and will do.

If a customer or visitor informs you that they do not want their details shared for the purposes of NHS Test and Trace, they can choose to opt out, and if they do so you should not share their information used for booking purposes with NHS Test and Trace.

I am right in thinking this applies to Scotland?

73005 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to arfurmo, 1, #431 of 1304 🔗

Thank you 💪 💪

73075 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to stefarm, 2, #432 of 1304 🔗

Just lie.
I really hope they share my ‘details’ with T&T. I really do.
Those poor contact tracers need a laugh.

72931 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 18, #433 of 1304 🔗

Seems my local MP is actually working for his constituents!

A Conservative MP has revealed his frustration at the sudden return of coronavirus restrictions to his Kirklees constituency.
Colne Valley MP, Jason McCartney, has made the rare move of openly criticising his government on social media.
On hearing of the ‘local lockdown’ last night, Mr McCartney, a loyal supporter of the Boris Johnson, tweeted that he was “surpised and disappointed” that his rural patch was included.
This afternoon, he has revealed he held a Zoom call with the Health Secretary Matt Hancock to get answers for his constituents.
And he has claimed Mr Hancock has said the situation will be reviewed in a week.
Mr McCartney claimed infection rates in the Colne Valley were “very low”.

….. Only two parts of Huddersfield – Birkby and the Golcar and Scapegoat Hill area – have had positive cases in the week of July 20-26. Just three each.

…. Denby Dale councillor, Will Simpson, [Labour] has also written to the Health Secretary to complain that imposing a lockdown on the whole of the borough was “too crude”.
He said: “It fails to recognise the significant differences within its localities and inherently fails to provide the targeted response that would be ideal.”


72962 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #434 of 1304 🔗

Somehow they seem to view each Northern county as one big city.

I wonder why. (Twats).

72991 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Farinances, 12, #435 of 1304 🔗

A lot of their recent explanations of muddled shite regulations included mention of ‘Pret’ and TfL. Well, I don’t fucking have those, cos I live where 87% of the population live – NOT IN LONDON. No fucking idea of what’s beyond the M25..

73140 ▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #436 of 1304 🔗

hear hear!

73164 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Azoumi, 5, #437 of 1304 🔗

Last year sometime, there was an MP, forget who, that said most other MPs really had no idea where Liverpool or Sunderland were…

73168 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #438 of 1304 🔗

that I really beleive…

73139 ▶▶▶ Azoumi, replying to Farinances, 2, #439 of 1304 🔗

that’ll be because they never been up here!

73054 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #440 of 1304 🔗

A Zoom call. This is the difference between now and normal times. In normal times, you can grab and buttonhole a Minister over something affecting your constituency. Not so easy in a dictatorship.

73228 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #441 of 1304 🔗

To be fair to my MP, he was actially physically in the House of Commons last week, asking for more specific local info to avoid lockdowns such as have just been imposed.

73272 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #442 of 1304 🔗

A word of caution. Any protest is better than none, but it isn’t good if each MP demands that his constituency be exempt, without criticising the principle of lockdown per se.

73305 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to annie, #443 of 1304 🔗

Sadly it isn’t principle that’s gonna turn this thing, it’s convenience. Or inconvenience. People getting sick of it rather than getting sick.

72936 Alan Billingsley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 41, #444 of 1304 🔗

So Johnson, Matt Hancock, Priti Patel, Prof Whitty, Michael Gove, Rishi Sunak, and Sir Patrick Vallance, are the new Cabinet that can make decisions which impact on millions of people without any debate. How has this Government been allowed to become a dictatorship that appear answerable to no one

72955 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Alan Billingsley, 14, #445 of 1304 🔗

My thoughts exactly. The covid crisis has been compared to WW2. But in WW2 there was a coalition cabinet. Here, we have one individual calling all the shots. Bearing in mind human frailty and fallibility, this hardly seems like a good idea. Especially when the ‘advisory’ team, at first sight, has so many conflicts of interest.

72973 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Bugle, 11, #446 of 1304 🔗

And when said individual had a brush with death due to his very questionable health, it does make you wonder how rationally he is thinking.

73049 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 5, #447 of 1304 🔗

If you *had* had a brush with death, particularly with a respiratory complaint, would you really be in favour of masks?

73069 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #448 of 1304 🔗

Not if I were thinking rationally, no. I’ve seen precious little evidence that he has been though.
I have a lifelong (so far, I’ve a good way left to go as long as I don’t get knocked on the head) respiratory complaint myself, and nothing would make me wear a mask or force others to, but I AM thinking rationally.

73215 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #449 of 1304 🔗

Faith in masks is voodoo.
Increasingly likely primary method of transfer is contact transfer, masks are a distraction.
Singapore got its Nosocomial infection rate down to statistical zero by April by ignoring the mask cult and improving hygeine.

73268 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #450 of 1304 🔗

So we have a government that rules by voodoo.
Is Ferguson a closet hougan?. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least.

73051 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bugle, 4, #451 of 1304 🔗

Not only a coalition cabinet, but also a fully functioning Parliament.

72939 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 22, #452 of 1304 🔗

Regarding Toby’s mention of Professor Graham Medley – he who thinks we might have to close pubs so that children can go back to school; here are his latest pontifications (The Telegraph, my emphasis):

People with suspected coronavirus should be offered free accommodation by the Government to allow them to self-isolate away from loved ones, a leading scientist has said.


Prof Medley said: “ Most of the transmission is occurring inside people’s homes . People have been talking about other alternative strategies, for example offering people the chance to isolate away from their homes, which I think is something worth considering as an alternative.”

So if that’s the case, why does he think there’s a need to close pubs? Who the hell are these people? Have they suddenly arrived on Earth from some alien “civilisation”?

72942 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Tenchy, 16, #453 of 1304 🔗

He might have to replace Hancock as my Most Loathed Talking Head Of The Year.

72946 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Tenchy, 12, #454 of 1304 🔗

Doesn’t that logically suggest the obvious solution? If most transmission is in people’s homes, then encouraging people to go outside more often is logical is it not? I know common sense isn’t that common but really!

72958 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 8, #455 of 1304 🔗

Yes – surely we don’t really need any other measures, particularly masks in shops?

72947 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Tenchy, 8, #456 of 1304 🔗

One laughs this week and sees it in the new guidelines next week. Is this like a WWII evacuation then?!

74831 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Country Mumkin, #457 of 1304 🔗

No, the govt has justified the impositions on various grounds including how incredibly infectious Covid is.
As the cruise ships show, 80% can expect not to get it / suffer any symptoms. This was on a ship with an older than average demographic.
This makes the govt impositioms even more ridiculous as their justifications can be shown to be invalid as well as probably illegal.

72950 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Tenchy, 9, #458 of 1304 🔗

Like it how he’s afraid to call it out. The only reason there’s transmission in people’s home is because there’s 10, 20, 30 or 40 people living in those homes. It’s not being spread in homes where’s there’s 2-6 people!

72952 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to JohnB, 1, #459 of 1304 🔗

So what do you suggest should be done about these overcrowded households?

72968 ▶▶▶▶ Fenlander, replying to Bugle, #460 of 1304 🔗

Nothing at all.

73213 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bugle, 1, #461 of 1304 🔗

Affordable decent housing.

73206 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to JohnB, 2, #462 of 1304 🔗

I think it’s bollocks because we had the perfect incubator on the Diamond Princess, some people were sharing a room for 2 weeks with the infected and didn’t get it.
Infection rate on Princess was 17% meaning 83% didn’t show any symptoms / get it at all, so it’s more make it up as you go from govt.

73223 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Nessimmersion, 2, #463 of 1304 🔗

Some people didn’t get it. But what matters is what happens to most people. I don’t think there’s any point arguing that sharing a room with someone doesn’t mean you aren’t likely to catch some of whatever viruses they might have from them. This is missing the point. It’s completely and utterly ridiculous for the government to go around saying whom free people can and can’t share rooms with in any circumstances let alone in the middle of a perfectly nice summer in peacetime where the birds are singing in the trees, there are no pandemics going on, and everyone should be fine.

72961 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 3, #464 of 1304 🔗

Well they clearly have shit for brains, so more like subhuman.

73033 ▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Cheezilla, -14, #465 of 1304 🔗

He is a distinguished professor in his field. “Shit for brains” really?

73041 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BoneyKnee, 5, #466 of 1304 🔗

“In his field”. Which is pretty limited – and that ‘field’ of modelling is full of shit.

73042 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to BoneyKnee, 3, #467 of 1304 🔗

Good at models. Can work out the square root of the surface area of a jam jar lid, but hasn’t got a clue how to get at the jam. A bit like army officers, 77 man.

73113 ▶▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to BoneyKnee, 3, #468 of 1304 🔗

So is Neil Ferguson. Allegedly.

73217 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to BoneyKnee, 1, #469 of 1304 🔗

He might be a genius in his meadow but the reast of us live in the real world.

72976 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Tenchy, 7, #470 of 1304 🔗

Well, this will be the plan to have concentration camps for the asymptomatic, a la Spanish newspaper article the other day! Free accommodation wont be a hotel. Or is that too dystopian?

72979 ▶▶▶ Fenlander, replying to DressageRider, #471 of 1304 🔗

Hotels are for the boat people.

74538 ▶▶▶ Kate, replying to DressageRider, #472 of 1304 🔗

I agree. I find this suggestion sinister. Why give anyone this right over you?
It could start as “voluntary” and then, once the right conditions have occurred , become mandatory, and you could find yourself being forcibly removed from your home. How would they even prove you were infected? Or are we expected to just take their word for it?

72980 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Tenchy, 15, #473 of 1304 🔗

Some of these ‘experts’ seem to to hark back to the old school Oliver Cromwell, Puritan approach to life that seems to linger in the UK psyche. It really irks some people that other people are enjoying themselves, having a beer, a laugh and talking to their friends. They are keen to find anyway they can to put a stop to this frivolity.
I fail to see any link between pubs and schools?
It will be a test of where Boris Johnson really stands as to whether he goes with this drivel or sends it packing?

73010 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 4, #474 of 1304 🔗

So where do they go to self-isolate outside their homes? The garden shed perhaps?

73022 ▶▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to annie, 6, #475 of 1304 🔗

Some kind of camp for those deemed by the government to be infected and therefore undesirable perhaps? Hmm… that sounds familiar, has it been tried before?

73047 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lockdown_Lunacy, 6, #476 of 1304 🔗

Are there any recently built buildings that have been standing idle? You know, built quickly to provide “extra capacity”?

73070 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #477 of 1304 🔗

*drum roll* 😂 😂

73266 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, 1, #478 of 1304 🔗

Self-isolating in a large field hospital?
Wouldn’t a hen battery be more suitable?

73324 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Sam Vimes, #479 of 1304 🔗

Nightingale Hospitals.

73023 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 6, #480 of 1304 🔗

Another SAGE self-important pillock grabbing a bit more of the limelight. Another epidemiological ‘modeller’ of the Ferguson brand.

73037 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tenchy, 5, #481 of 1304 🔗

A “Professor of Infectious Disease Modelling”, whose alma mater is, wait for it, Imperial College London.


73105 ▶▶▶ coalencanth12, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #482 of 1304 🔗

There’s a whole group of them who are all alumni or acolytes of Ferguson. Adam Kucharski is another doom monger from these groups much favoured by the media.

73040 ▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Tenchy, -22, #483 of 1304 🔗

The point he was making is that it is all a question of give and take and balance. You cannot just open everything at once if you want to reduce transmission. So there are choices which are driven by other priorities. For example, some might say schools are more important than pubs. It’s not so difficult to follow.

I read Toby’s piece today and despaired. He tries to attack or counter elements piecemeal and misunderstands the whole. I agree that the Government’s communication and some of the policies are awful. However, that doesn’t make the science and technical guidance wrong. Toby Young is of course far more learned and knowledgeable on infectious diseases than the most accomplished minds in the country – give me a break.

73045 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BoneyKnee, 9, #484 of 1304 🔗

These ‘accomplished minds’ of the SAGE self-promotion club happen to have been wrong at every turn. Good scientists would have adapted to the actuality by now – but ‘good’ scientists in that wider sense don’t get anywhere near SAGE.

The record is pathetic.

73046 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to RickH, 8, #485 of 1304 🔗

P.S. If you can’t work out from the numbers by now that this infectious event is nothing particularly exceptional, and certainly not requiring the demolition of society, then you are, by definition, a pretty shit scientist

73220 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, 1, #486 of 1304 🔗

Rick, don’t feed the TROLL.

73058 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to BoneyKnee, 4, #487 of 1304 🔗

I disagree with your suggestion that it’s all a question of give and take and balance. That’s precisely what it isn’t with the likes of Medley and Whitty. They have one track minds. Basically, they want to take all and give nothing, if it means total eradication of the virus. I don’t doubt they are highly intelligent people, but they are incapable of seeing the bigger picture; a common fault with intellectuals.

73128 ▶▶▶▶ AllieT, replying to Tenchy, 2, #488 of 1304 🔗

Intellectuals usually lack common sense …

73068 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BoneyKnee, 8, #489 of 1304 🔗

You clearly hate Tobys writing and hate being here so…..

Jog on? Please?

73071 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 2, #490 of 1304 🔗

Actually no don’t go anywhere.
Your bosses might not be happy.

73094 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to BoneyKnee, 5, #491 of 1304 🔗

Transmission has been declining. at least in non-noscomial community settings, for about four months. There is no obvious spike in hospital admissions nor positive results from pillar 1 testing of the symptomatic. Results from an increasing quantity of pillar 2 testing of the non-symptomatic are not a genuine issue for multiple reasons- false positives, lingering viral debris, true asymptomatic infection etc.

73250 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BoneyKnee, 2, #492 of 1304 🔗

Yes but the “science” and technical guidance _is_ wrong.

In general there is no reason why science or reason should dictate politics. As recent events have shown society does not always act rationally and there’s no ultimate reason why it should.

But this is the other way round. It’s politics dictating science, and it’s certainly within Toby’s area of expertise to criticise that.

This hiding behind credentials in fields like “the science of infectious diseases” is bollocks anyway. There is nothing in the epidemiology of what’s going on that anyone with basic scientific literacy and a bit of patience can’t keep up with.

73280 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to BoneyKnee, 1, #493 of 1304 🔗

The government’s actions amount to micro-management of the worst sort and this indicates weak indecisive poor leadership. This poor leadership is one reason why these witless so called experts feel able to come out with this ludicrous drivel. It indicates one of the huge problems that there has been with this virus with a yawning gap between the high level scientific thinking and the reality of operating in the real world. Bridging this gap should be the politicians job but they have patently failed to do this.

73411 ▶▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Steve Martindale, -3, #494 of 1304 🔗

I’ll go with what you say. There is an expertise gap and poor leadership. I don’t accept the scientists and experts are “wrong” or spout drivel. Their facts and views need mush more context and other perspectives – not alternative facts with unproven treatments a la Trump – I mean economic views, societal views and other health outcomes. Our leaders all being PPE and not very good technically don’t know where to start on this. They seem crap at communications and politics.

I get called a troll from time to time. I am here because there is mismanagement and i am looking for another view. I find Toby’s approach crap. Really crap and worse than Johnson’s. The comments have a wider range of ideas than Toby. The comments are increasingly getting gummed up with quasi-conspiracy stuff and nonsense.

73066 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Tenchy, 4, #495 of 1304 🔗

“Free accomodation” AKA Covid Camps.

Aah, what fluffy totalitarianism.

73116 ▶▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Farinances, 3, #496 of 1304 🔗

I believe members of a certain race were sent to camps for their protection at a certain point in Europe’s past. That worked out so well – not.

73230 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ewan Duffy, #497 of 1304 🔗

Zyklon B, used in those camps, was made by the company IG Farben, which was bought by Soros and renamed Moderna. Sound familiar? Moderna are making a Covid vaccine that Fauci is promoting.. Apparently Moderna’s biggest shareholder was a certain Jeffrey Epstein..

73251 ▶▶▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Carrie, -1, #498 of 1304 🔗

Yeah and Hitler’s son was the chief financial officer. They are all Iluminati of course…..

73224 ▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Farinances, 1, #499 of 1304 🔗

Have you been watching Utopia on Netflix? It sets all out there. The so-called script was just a leak from Government files….

73303 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BoneyKnee, #500 of 1304 🔗

I bloody LOVE that show 🙂

Yes, you can love something like that without thinking it’s real.

It’s fun to think about though when you’re not actually living through the twilight zone. That’s definitely the method I’d use if I was going population reduction on the world’s ass.

73415 ▶▶▶▶▶ BoneyKnee, replying to Farinances, #501 of 1304 🔗

It’s on Amazon Prime now and HBO are remaking it…if Mr Rabbit & the Network let them.

73204 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #502 of 1304 🔗

I hate to say it, but the coronavirus legislation does allow for people suspected of having the virus to be removed from their homes…

73211 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #503 of 1304 🔗

Hmmm. Key words “offering the chance” !!

73225 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #504 of 1304 🔗

However, if they don’t take up the ‘offer’, they will be forced – so not much of a choice really, you either go voluntarily or they arrest you..

73321 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tenchy, #505 of 1304 🔗

There was a TV series in the US called The Invaders. They stealthily, silently took over the country.

72943 McNamara, replying to McNamara, 54, #506 of 1304 🔗

If Asda in Keighley is anything to go by this afternoon, this local lockdown in Yorkshire/Lancs is a step too far for Yorkies. No queues and no one-way system (well done Asda), lots of people not masked up (me included). No staff masked. Fair number of mask wearers with them pulled down. Maybe not quite social disobedience but at least some signs that some folks have had enough.

72956 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to McNamara, 16, #507 of 1304 🔗

Good for the people of Keighley!

72957 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to McNamara, 14, #508 of 1304 🔗

Seeing the same here (granted my home town is a tame beast but people round here have sense- and they aren’t buying it any more).

72971 ▶▶ DRW, replying to McNamara, 13, #509 of 1304 🔗

Excellent! Public finally standing up to the bully boys. Go Northerners!

72989 ▶▶▶ TJN, replying to DRW, 11, #510 of 1304 🔗

Yes, Go Northerners! I’m proud of you.

If us lot down here in the far South West can’t muster. any fight then it’s up to you guys.

72999 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to TJN, 6, #511 of 1304 🔗

Interestingly my sceptic friend is a Northerner, says they know much more up there. Must be something in the air, or maybe the flat caps and whippets!

73003 ▶▶▶▶▶ McNamara, replying to DRW, 5, #512 of 1304 🔗

It’ll be Timothy Taylor’s Landlord.

73062 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to DRW, 5, #513 of 1304 🔗

We just don’t like bullshit.
Or bullshitters.

73207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 1, #514 of 1304 🔗

Yes. We don’t call a spade a digging implement adapted for being pushed into the ground with the foot.

73013 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to TJN, 1, #515 of 1304 🔗

Would would Trelawny think?

73169 ▶▶▶▶▶ TJN, replying to bluemoon, 2, #516 of 1304 🔗

Yes, when you think how the Cornish fought in the Civil War.

73197 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to TJN, 3, #517 of 1304 🔗

Well this is why I can’t understand the extent of the compliance down here. I’ve always admired the Cornish for their kinda 2 fingers to London and all it stands for, their conviction that it’s they who live in god’s country and absolutely nobody else, yet I see them wearing masks outside in the glorious air. Maybe the penny will drop.

73057 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to McNamara, 15, #518 of 1304 🔗

And in Shipley, the Energy Mill gym has said they’ll remain open despite the ruling that they have to close (whilst pubs stay open – makes perfect sense, of course). Brave and courageous – hope more businesses follow suit. Mr Young has been informed.

73064 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Quernus, 4, #519 of 1304 🔗

Yes, come on guys! Rebel!

73065 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Quernus, 7, #520 of 1304 🔗

That’s a WIN.
I’m counting on Bradford to stick it to them actually. Bradfordians take no crap.

73093 ▶▶ Nic, replying to McNamara, 3, #521 of 1304 🔗

I live in haworth usually go to morrisons but will give it a go next week

73350 ▶▶▶ McNamara, replying to Nic, #522 of 1304 🔗

I’m in Riddlesden. Sainsbury’s was showing signs of promise last week, not checked since the interdict was reapplied.

73098 ▶▶ Nic, replying to McNamara, 5, #523 of 1304 🔗

Also spoons keighley nearly normal!

73347 ▶▶▶ McNamara, replying to Nic, #524 of 1304 🔗

I am not sure I would use the word “normal” about the Spoons in Keighley. Normal for Keighley maybe.

73121 ▶▶ Robert West, replying to McNamara, 5, #525 of 1304 🔗

I drove through Bradford today from Wakefield for a walk around Harden… didn’t see any signs of any lockdown and Bradford’s roads were as busy as ever…

73302 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Robert West, #526 of 1304 🔗

Wakey is next. Bracing myself cause I would probably fall into that although not sure

73156 ▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to McNamara, 5, #527 of 1304 🔗

Day out in Salford to visit the Imperial War Museum – meal afterwards; plenty of groups clearly from different households. No track and trace. Easy Peasy.

Must try harder next time, Hancock.

72948 hotrod, 17, #528 of 1304 🔗

Don’t go abroad
You can can now go abroad
Stay at home
Don’t go abroad
Have a “staycation”
But don’t go to the beach (WTF??)
Don’t try and have any fun
Don’t go to school
Don’t question us
Trust in Boris

72954 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #529 of 1304 🔗

Just popped back to the Janet Daley’s comments section and all my “likes” have been reversed and the number of likes knocked back to ones and twos.

73009 ▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 6, #530 of 1304 🔗

Perversely, this supports our case. The impression that most people are zombies us being manufactured, no truth in it.

73030 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 3, #531 of 1304 🔗

That is my feeling too. Easy to make you feel like you’re the only one when it seems that everybody else feels a different way. Until you find a site like this one of course…

73027 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #532 of 1304 🔗

Found this on the London Standard too. Amusing really.

73056 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #533 of 1304 🔗

That’s happened to me several times on The Telegraph too. There are CCHQ attack dogs sent out regularly. Sign of desperation now I think.

73395 ▶▶ TJN, replying to Cheezilla, #534 of 1304 🔗

Are they removing the up-votes or just cancelling with down-votes? I read but don’t comment on The Telegraph site, so would like to be clear about what’s going on.

I sometimes look at the ‘top’ comments on articles, and in my experience they are overwhelmingly of a sceptical stance.

In my opinion, even The Telegraph has been got at, or at least has accepted that it has to publish a quota of pro-government articles. They are easy to spot though, as the arguments are emotive rather than substantial.

72967 Alan Billingsley, replying to Alan Billingsley, 13, #535 of 1304 🔗

Where are the Tory MPs that disagree with these lockdown policies (ERG brexit equivalent). Maybe they have all been locked away never to be seen again.

73052 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Alan Billingsley, 4, #536 of 1304 🔗

I have asked the same question twice in last 24 hours and not yet seen a good explanation.

I suspect Cummings runs the show and they are ALL scared of him.

72978 mjr, replying to mjr, 15, #537 of 1304 🔗

Having seen some of the German protest on youtube just thought i would check coverage. BBC web does mention it although the wording implies that a high proportion are conspiracy theorists or right wingers (and some normal people!). Nothing on Guardian on line, Nothing on Mail on line (although big feature there on Black march in Brixton )
Cant bring myself to watch tv news

72981 ▶▶ DressageRider, replying to mjr, 3, #538 of 1304 🔗

I just did a search online – came up with hits from the Daily Mail and the Indenpendant, plus a local Bournemouth paper

72982 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to DressageRider, 2, #539 of 1304 🔗

Evening Standard and Yahoo have it as well.

73034 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to mjr, 5, #540 of 1304 🔗

It took BBC on line only two paragraphs to pin the German protests on the far-right. Tedious.

73055 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Jonathan Smith, 2, #541 of 1304 🔗

Ah yes, the BBC with its incisive, penetrating analysis; can’t pull the wool over their eyes!

73193 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to IanE, 2, #542 of 1304 🔗

Don’t worry, sopel will be on at 10.00 telling us how Trump is doing everything wrong in a wascist manner and HCQ is really dangerous despite Morocco etc
This will be followed by some more condescending crap speaking to handpicked interviewees who are really happy about lockdown / muzzles and think yellow stars on muzzles would make them nicer.

73061 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to mjr, 1, #543 of 1304 🔗

Only far-right loonies want to go hug their grandma without being called psychopaths!

72985 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #544 of 1304 🔗

Apparently August 1st is Yorkshire Day. I’ve lived here most of my life and I never knew that!

Considering much of West Yorkshire is locked down, I’m not sure why we would celebrate.

What a pity we hadn’t organised a traditional Yorkshire rebellion against tyrannical rulers. To be fair, they never got us very far – though they certainly got the despots’ attention and response.

73018 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #545 of 1304 🔗

Don’t get sentimental about Yorkshire. It has its fuckwits, too.

73050 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to RickH, 9, #546 of 1304 🔗

As my Latin teacher said at his retirement do, there is a very thin line between sentimental and semi-mental!

73202 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to RickH, #547 of 1304 🔗

They’re all comers-in!

72988 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #548 of 1304 🔗

Any news about the Hyde Park Rally this afternoon?

72998 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #549 of 1304 🔗

I have been wondering the same thing, I haven’t seen anything on MSM so far. I assume they are deliberately not covering it?

73201 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Rabbit, #550 of 1304 🔗

Ben Shirley posted an extensive report here about 9pm.

72990 arfurmo, replying to arfurmo, 21, #551 of 1304 🔗

In Star Trek the Next Generation , the starship was often in grave danger -e.g. stuck in an asteroid field which drained the ships energy or in a time loop which they couldn’t escape from. And then in the last ten minutes it dawned on them that if they continued to do the thing that they thought was the right thing to do , they would never escape. So they did the most illogical (to them) thing and lived to go to warp speed another day. How do we get the crew of no. 10 to realise that what they need to do is to remove all restrictions?

73006 ▶▶ annie, replying to arfurmo, 9, #552 of 1304 🔗

Impossible, they are controlled by the Borg.

73017 ▶▶ RickH, replying to arfurmo, 6, #553 of 1304 🔗

Mistake : You assume that they might want things to change.

73019 ▶▶ Rabbit, replying to arfurmo, 2, #554 of 1304 🔗

I think it would take a time travel scenario eg times arrow or carpenter street. Someone needs to go back and show them the mistakes they made. Hopefully got the episode names right, making the most of the weather and pub!

73059 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to arfurmo, 5, #555 of 1304 🔗

We’re the ones in the time loop we can’t escape from.

And anyway, if the crew of the Enterprise was furloughed on 80% of their Federation Credits, or whatever, they wouldn’t give a toss either.

73073 ▶▶ DRW, replying to arfurmo, 2, #556 of 1304 🔗

Well we’re certainly going where noone’s gone before

73144 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DRW, 2, #557 of 1304 🔗

We cannae take any more, Cap’n.

73102 ▶▶ guy153, replying to arfurmo, 1, #558 of 1304 🔗

They’re Star Wars fans instead and are getting drunk on the idea of crushing the rebels and bringing order to the galaxy.

73124 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to guy153, 2, #559 of 1304 🔗

But we all know how that ended.

73210 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to DRW, 1, #560 of 1304 🔗

Every time you think it’s over another three lousy sequels come along.

73077 Ruth Sharpe, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 36, #562 of 1304 🔗

A positive thing for me today. Our neighbours, who have been very OCD about the virus, for example, asking us to take a flask of tea & our own mugs when we went round, have had a truly Damascene conversion.

They are now complete sceptics, raging at the incompetence of Boris, suggesting conspiracy theories to us and happily talking about brainwashing of the masses. In return, I suggested walking into the local Coop without a mask on – that is the next step for them!

Just need to keep chipping away. I think locking down Manchester & parts of Yorkshire will prove to be a mistake, but I think it is Whitty’s comments of a trade off between schools and pubs has opened many more people’s eyes to the complete idiocy of the government’s stance.

73080 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 12, #563 of 1304 🔗

Can’t imagine many people agreeing with shutting the pubs again, so soon after opening. Might be one of the straws on the camel’s back. Pubs and the British, not to be separated, at any cost.

73082 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to thedarkhorse, 10, #564 of 1304 🔗

The schools will be the “straw”. If it’s safe for schools to open the whole farce will become clear. That is why the MSM press keep asking this question about schools as they fear the end of their constant stirring and fear mongering.

Scottish schools open in two weeks.

Game on.

73096 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 1, #565 of 1304 🔗

Did we know about this protest going on outside the BBC at the mo? https://twitter.com/Charbrevolution/status/1289600241860317184

73110 ▶▶▶▶▶ EssieSW, replying to Carrie, 1, #566 of 1304 🔗

Did a quick search and can’t find any coverage yet. A couple of articles about a pensioner protesting outside BBC Newcastle yesterday over the liscence fee for over 75’s.

Encouraging to see this kind of thing, hopefully it continues.

My nearest BBC building is in Gloucester, would probably be the only person there is I tried to do a protest there!

73203 ▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to hotrod, 3, #567 of 1304 🔗

That’s an interesting one, as originally Krankie was dragging her heels and talking about half the time in school and half on-line learning, but she was pressurised into the schools going back normally – no masks, no social distancing etc.

The thing is if Scotland do it & there’re no repercussions (which there won’t be), that will be another thing that Krankie will be perceived to have got right over the hapless Boris. And what pressure does it put on Boris for Englush schools to go back ‘normally?

73222 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ruth Sharpe, #568 of 1304 🔗

I think it was UsforThem that got that through in Scotland – and Wales I believe..

73090 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to thedarkhorse, 6, #569 of 1304 🔗

I agree. Have just heard from a friend in Yorkshire and you are only supposed to go as a household to a pub and not meet another household. As she said, don’t think that’s going to happen!

73127 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 2, #570 of 1304 🔗

If you go to the pub with your partner, that’s fine. And your neighbours can do the same. But if you see your neighbours in the pub, you mustn’t socialise with them. Simple.

73162 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #571 of 1304 🔗

And I’m sure the pubs won’t be policing it!

73104 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to thedarkhorse, 7, #572 of 1304 🔗

Sadly I still know people who post sanctimonious rants on Facebook about the disgusting, granny-killing plebs who do such things as go to the pub or walk past another human being at normal range (“They should stay at home! End of!”). One was even bleating about being scared to walk her dog past the pub at the end of the road, in case it got too rowdy. They would be truly delighted if the pubs had to close again and would lose no time in reminding everyone that they told them so…

If I owned a pub I would be truly suicidal at this point. Two months of opening and then shut for the winter again. Potentially your entire life’s work down the drain.

73089 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 7, #573 of 1304 🔗

Scepticism has mutated into a rapidly spreading virus whose primary symptom is the willingness to talk to people about the epiphany

73115 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Farinances, 5, #574 of 1304 🔗

Exponential outbreak in the next few months? Someone do some modelling!

73122 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to DRW, 5, #575 of 1304 🔗

I think I’ve got the looks, but I can’t do that jerky catwalk strut thingy…

73123 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to DRW, 7, #576 of 1304 🔗

I did that this morning. I’ve calculated that 162,810,000 people will be sceptics by Christmas. This equates to 243% of the UK population.

73134 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to matt, 4, #577 of 1304 🔗

Oh, yeah, based on your modelling. It’s actually 14 cases. But we’re all going to die tomorrow. I’ve been saying that since March 23rd. Pah!

73137 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to matt, 5, #578 of 1304 🔗

This thread: https://twitter.com/timetowakeupsw1/status/1289573623074717696
has footage from protests in Berlin, Bulgaria and the Netherlands… Hopefully this Covid madness will be stopped before Christmas!

73199 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 1, #579 of 1304 🔗

Hope at last!

73205 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Carrie, 9, #580 of 1304 🔗

We need a proper UK event like the Berlin one. Featuring Jonathan Sumpton, Toby Young, Peter Hitchens, James Dellingpole, Simon Dolan and many others. A celebration of truth and freedom but ultimately a great day out. I’d brave public transport for that!

73261 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, #581 of 1304 🔗

I’d certainly try.

73348 ▶▶▶▶▶ R G, replying to matt, 1, #582 of 1304 🔗

Good of you to join us, Professor Ferguson.

73260 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, 2, #583 of 1304 🔗

When I use phrases like ‘When this insanity ends’ to holidaymakers hereabouts, I get sympathetic murmurs. No objections or glares so far.
I suppose somebody might report me to the thought police, but I’ll take that risk.
Drip drip drip, infuse the message! Ears are open to it.

73099 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 4, #584 of 1304 🔗

Result! Well done.

73198 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #585 of 1304 🔗

Yes, I think the schools v pubs idiocy is going to cause a lot of Damascene conversions!

73255 ▶▶ annie, replying to Ruth Sharpe, 1, #586 of 1304 🔗

Well, they could send the kids to pubs instead of schools, job done, probably just as educational.

73263 ▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to annie, #587 of 1304 🔗

Probably more so, considering the standard of education they get! They could learn to count with darts, pool and crib; learn weights and measures with the optics; chemistry with mixing cocktails – absolutely perfect schooling!

73078 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 4, #588 of 1304 🔗

Why did Boris suggest all would be fine by Christmas a couple of weeks ago???

73084 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to hotrod, 2, #589 of 1304 🔗

Because he knows it will go on to at least March 2021!

73196 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dave #KBF, #590 of 1304 🔗

or until they have a vaccine.. I thought Parliament had to re-vote on the legislation after 6 months? Surely that would be in September?

73092 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to hotrod, 1, #591 of 1304 🔗

Bizarre isn’t it? Yet more strange and inexplicable behaviour. You cannot predict which way he will go from one day to the next. It’s almost like he’s got a split personality.

73161 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #592 of 1304 🔗

It’s deliberate tactics.

73100 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to hotrod, 4, #593 of 1304 🔗

Because he’s a habitual liar?

73106 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to hotrod, 5, #594 of 1304 🔗

He “hoped it would be fairly normal by then”. That was simply to soften you up for the announcement later that it would not be normal. A bit like Gove saying we don’t need masks in shops. Then they did it. If they say now that something is not likely, be afraid… be very afraid.

73160 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hotrod, 3, #595 of 1304 🔗

Presumably on the advice of the psy-ops unit.
In effect, he was teasing us.
Repetitive teasing is cruel.
Prolonged repetitive teasing is torture.

73085 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 13, #596 of 1304 🔗

Birds Bakery does seem to have a death wish. Perhaps the good people of Nottingham and Derby should grant that death wish and boycott the bakery to hasten its demise.

We should do the same for shops and services and from 8 August museums, galleries and cinemas that practise discrimination through harassing people not wearing muzzles or not accepting cash. When we vote with our feet and wallets and their sales and visitor numbers nosedive, they will regret the day they decide to alienate their customers and visitors.

73086 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #597 of 1304 🔗

What what have they done now?

I know the Arnold branch refused to sell a 94 year old lady bread last week because she only had cash, no cards.

73114 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #598 of 1304 🔗

See Toby’s post above. They’ve sacked one of their store managers because she used her own card to pay for things for elderly customers and accepted their cash herself.

73125 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to matt, 5, #599 of 1304 🔗

What a set of *uckers.

The woman worked at the store for 40 years! She was helping people who only had cash, unless she was doing anything else such as charging £2 for a £1.50 loaf and pocketing the difference then this company needs sorting out.

Off to find an email address.

73153 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, 2, #600 of 1304 🔗

They sacked one assistant for not accepting cash and the recent one for accepting cash.
Deserve to die!

73175 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #601 of 1304 🔗

It’s ridiculous. It’s not as if she’s pocketing the cash.

This is what happens when you get by the book Nazis and unfortunately they’re prevalent.

73262 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #602 of 1304 🔗

Do we know her name? I would happily support a crowdfunding for her.

73277 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sarigan, #603 of 1304 🔗

The manager’s name is Megan Metcalfe. Toby has the excerpt and the link to the BBC report above.

73282 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Dave #KBF, #604 of 1304 🔗

Phone numbers and email addfess for bastardbirdsbakery was posted in the comments on the day of the previous story.

73108 ▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to Bart Simpson, #605 of 1304 🔗

It would be a huge shame if their shop windows had bricks chucked through them.

73254 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Martin Spencer, #606 of 1304 🔗

Yeah, very sad.

73097 Rosefairy2, #607 of 1304 🔗

Big demo today in Berlin against corona dictation. 1.3 million demonstrators.!!!! This is a signal for the world!!! ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤

73107 Rosefairy2, #608 of 1304 🔗


1.3 million demonstrators in Berlin against corona dictation. The mainstream said 15.000 people, what is a lie. Historical day for Germany.

73111 Rosefairy2, #609 of 1304 🔗

When do the British go on the street fighting for their human rights?

73117 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #610 of 1304 🔗

Just musing, with my pal Mr. Beer. I think I’ve got this right – it doesn’t matter, because we’re going to ignore them, anyway. BUT! When they pass the actual laws for us here in the North West, if you have an adult child who lives with a partner, it will become illegal for your own child to visit you in your home or garden. Welcome to England. More beer.

73298 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #611 of 1304 🔗

If they do it to me it’ll be illegal to visit my parents again.
Took no notice last time – won’t this time either.

73299 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 1, #612 of 1304 🔗

(That’s why my mum told me to come over this weekend actually – she’s afeard they’re gonna lock us down again and she won’t see me. Bless her, I broke the law for her last time, I don’t know why she suddenly starts caring now)

73132 Tim, replying to Tim, 20, #613 of 1304 🔗

Just wrote to my MP, Philip Davies. Not sure where he stands on lockdown:

“Dear Philip

Another ill-thought-out, panic-driven, knee-jerk reaction by the government.

We are one week into the school holidays, and at the drop of a hat my daughter and her husband, and presumably hundreds of thousands of other families, have been told that their childcare plans for the summer are now illegal. We were supposed to look after our grandchildren while their parents go to work. Now we can’t. What are they supposed to do?

If this latest restriction had been properly considered they could have made an exception for childcare. Young children rarely get the virus and they don’t transmit it. Where is the risk/benefit analysis?

As for destroying Eid celebrations at the very last minute … what an absolute howler.

I had high hopes for Boris. We now know that he’s frightened, spineless and impulsive.  Time for a change.

Yours sincerely

Tim Light

73158 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Tim, 4, #614 of 1304 🔗

Good Yorkshire message, short and to the point, why waste ink.

73133 GetaGrip, replying to GetaGrip, 7, #615 of 1304 🔗

Sadly bugger all resistance on show here in Northern Scotland.

I make a point of testing the water with most people I encounter, and the usual vibe is support for Sturgeon’s ‘cautious approach’, plus critisism of those ‘reckless idiots’ who mass gather.
I’ve given up proffering a counter-view now, as it looks like they’re about to launch into that scream-and-point thing Donald Sutherland does in the Bodysnatchers film.

A frightening number of retailers and business also seem to be still closed, or open reduced hours.

Most disconcertingly, my local barber, now open again, has decided this is the time to increase the price of a haircut by 33%! (I mitigated that a bit with no tip, by way of a lesson in the law of unintended consequences (or that’s just what you get for taking the piss, pal – take your pick).

A sign of things to come?

73155 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to GetaGrip, #616 of 1304 🔗

Someone on here reported yesterday that their drinking establishment had increased prices by 15%

73191 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #617 of 1304 🔗

After their punters were trained for four months to buy booze much cheaper from supermarkets, you’d think the pub would realise that they should at least start with an introductory back-to-socialising pricing structure.
You have to give to get.

73226 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #618 of 1304 🔗

Wetherspoons reduced some beer prices after the VAT cut, even though it didn’t actually apply to the demon alkerol. Sam Smiths, long the champion of cheap beer, put their prices up by around a pound a pint!

73184 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to GetaGrip, 5, #619 of 1304 🔗

I know what you mean, the Spiteful Nannying Party has managed to get their supporters lined up behind Nicola despite worse performance of Scottish care homes, BBC is busy memory holing that of course.
Cordless trimmer £24 off tinternet, so that saves £10 a month, at my age and hirsuteness a No 3 – monthly is fine.
Bought home wine kit so thats £2.00 a bottle shortly and sod their minimum pricing.
Also means I can continue not wearing a mask more often.

73253 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nessimmersion, 3, #620 of 1304 🔗

Set Nessie on to the buggers!
Though, sadly, Nessie is far less monstrous than Nikki. They should change places, except that it would pollute the Loch.

73257 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to GetaGrip, 2, #621 of 1304 🔗

Yes, I agree – our area is the same. People ‘happily’ wearing masks, although they look as miserable as sin. Lots of support for Krankie, even among people who wouldn’t usually give her a second look.

Mind you, you’ve got to admit that with Boris’ increasing ramblings, Krankie does cone across as ‘sane’ – even if she is not. We’ve really got to hope that Salmond goes on a very vengeful revenge mission as soon as possible!

73138 Rosefairy2, #622 of 1304 🔗
73142 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 9, #623 of 1304 🔗

In the middle of upticking many of the encouraging comments in Ross Clark’s aticle from yesterday, I came across this interesting observation:

I wonder if obedience to mask wearing is related in any way to social class? In this town we have two branches of the same supermarket, one in a middle class area the other in a poorer council estate area. I am told by one of the staff that in one shop mask wearing is universal (well, 99.9%), while in the other only about half the customers are wearing them. She said that the staff have been specifically told not to approach or challenge anyone at the less compliant store for fear of aggression, but at the other they will approach a non-wearer, suggest that you have forgotten, and offer to give a mask. I don’t suppose I need to say which is which.

And the first response!

No you do need to say which is which – in one there are people sticking two fingers up at authority and fighting for your liberties while you sit here being sanctimonious….

73190 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 5, #624 of 1304 🔗

The encouraging thing was that pretty much all the comments on that article are anti-lockdown, anti-masks, anti Boris etc..

73296 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, #625 of 1304 🔗


As I’ve said before two types of shop are gonna emerge – the ‘upmarket’ tow the line type, i.e. the big inner city or out of town supermarket, posh Waitroses, farmers markets etc. where everyone wears their masks like good little children
And the smaller, local shops where nobody gives a fuck. You’ll be able to go buy milk and bread without a mask, but not star anise, if ya get me.

73145 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #626 of 1304 🔗

Whilst supermarkets are now open normal hours here in the East Midlands shops still seem to be open reduced hours, 10:00 to 16:30 being common.

Is this the case elsewhere or are we just lucky?

73147 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, #627 of 1304 🔗

Where in the East Midlands is that happening? I’m not aware of it, apart from on Sunday’s.

73151 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to JohnB, 1, #628 of 1304 🔗


Shops used to open about 09:00 and close 17:00 to 17:30

73174 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, #629 of 1304 🔗

Must just be a Lincoln thing, as I’ve not experienced it anywhere else in the East Midlands.

73157 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 10, #630 of 1304 🔗

Hyde Park Report Pt. I

As planned, I went to the Hyde Park protest organised by StandUpX earlier today. I came back somewhat lacking in any sense of fulfilment.

It was at first necessary for me to break the law twice in order just to get to the protest, since I needed to travel to London by rail and visit the Co-Op for my lunch, and on both occasions I intended to take my face with me. The train ride was pretty depressing since, despite no enforcement of the mask rule, there was total compliance. See again Huxley’s warning about people loving their servitude. Perversely, in the Co-Op the self-service machines weren’t taking cash but the cashiers were. Surely that’s the wrong way round with regards to obsessively keeping ‘safe’? I had actually considered getting lunch from the Serpentine café but I checked beforehand and it wants £9.25 for a fish finger sandwich. They must be gourmet fish fingers. Anyhow, I later heard that the Hyde Park cafés weren’t accepting cash so they deserve to go bust.

The protest kicked off with a speech from Piers Corbyn, who would probably be a decent speaker if only he wouldn’t go off on tangents about Bill Gates and 5G, and therein lies my big bone of contention with the gathering. I knew the protests attracted the Bill Gates/5G lot but I didn’t realise the extent to which they would actually dominate the narrative. As for the people attendant, while some of them looked normal, there were plenty who looked like they hadn’t realised Woodstock was finished, anarcho-punks, Extinction Rebellion hangers-on and a few general raggle-taggle dreadheads. I was dressed smartly and conservatively in the hope of making the cause appear respectable, but I probably just harmed my own image.

Once Corbyn had done his bit, we had five minutes from a motivational speaker-type personality trying to get us to join in with a chant. He seemed to go down well and the crowd co-operated but I found the whole instance quite unsettling as it seemed to me as though I was witnessing just another kind of cultish collectivism, not all that dissimilar from the one we were there to oppose. I stood through the chants mostly in silence, because I was not going to echo sentiments I didn’t agree with, in whole or in part, and as a natural individualist that kind of behaviour simply does not become me. The biggest embarrassment was perhaps the man who shouted ‘Paedo!’ at the mention of Bill Gates. Naturally, I’m no lover of Gates but if anyone wants to call him a paedophile, the burden of proof is on them first of all, and then they need to explain how, even if it is true, it is relevant to lockdowns and masks. All that, sadly, set the mood for the event.

There’s no need for me to run through all the speakers but the best one was the whistleblowing ex-surgeon, late of the NHS, whom I think I can safely say was a reliable source of anti-Covid truths of the kind we need if we are to make our case honestly and effectively. Unfortunately, his work was undone somewhat by the following speaker, who gave us a load of channel-your-cosmic-energies, here-be-aliens claptrap. I pretended to take part in his meditation out of politeness, but it was a useless waste of time. There followed quite a good speaker who raised awareness of the imminence of martial law, and attacked the cultivation of the Stasi culture which instils fear in would-be dissidents.

When the march began, I got sick pretty quickly of the chanting of the StandUpX slogan ‘We are the people, we are the power, we are the 99 per cent’. More than anything else, I object to the last part because it’s completely untrue; there is now way Covid dissenters account for 99 per cent of the population. Any rebellious inclination I may have had on the march was quelled by the prevalence of smartphone cameras being waved about by the marchers. That was odd, I thought, in a protest partly concerned with the right to privacy and anonymity. I detest smartphones. The closest I came to any form of exhibitionism was giving a Village salute to a man in a Prisoner t-shirt, to commend him for his good taste in television. Besides that, I was fairly well cringing in the knowledge that I was shoulder-to-shoulder with a lot of people who obviously belong to Facebook pages for vigilante noncebusters.

The march first of all went to the BBC, which marked the day’s lowest ebb, being basically an excuse for people to indulge themselves in screaming “Paedos! Paedos!” at Television House for 15 minutes. Then everyone went off to Whitehall where another speakers’ platform had been set up opposite Downing Street. At Piccadilly Circus we bumped into a separate group protesting under the ‘Free Julian Assange (in every packet of cornflakes…)’ banner, and of course the StandUpX people decided to stop and support them, too. Well, yes, quite. Do give my warmest regards to Jules, but that’s not really what I turned up for.

73188 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #631 of 1304 🔗

I think it is pretty much impossible to have a protest where Bill Gates does not get mentioned, because the only reason the restrictions and lockdowns are carrying on, when the virus has pretty much gone from the UK, is because the end game is to force us to capitulate to the vaccine, covipass etc – and Bill Gates’ money is financing not only 7 of the candidate vaccines but also the media – in addition to his links to Whitty, Vallance, Hancock, Boris (and likely others..)

73189 ▶▶ GetaGrip, replying to Ben Shirley, #632 of 1304 🔗

Unfortunately it’s the ‘Bagfull of Arseholes’ paradox.

Most of the people (present company excepted) who join rallies and protests do so for causes the arseholes hold dear. The rest of us are too busy at work, or don’t care about the woke nonsense they’re on about, or would just rather go to the pub instead.
So, on those very rare occasions an ‘alignment of interest’ occurs, completely by chance, you find yourself uncomfortably aligned with people typically in the opposite trench.

Philosophically you could just take the view that for some the point is the mass gathering itself, the reason being superfluous because they’ll hijack it anyway, and in the main most of the folk who agree with you do so in spirit, because we had to pick the kids up, cal at GT Tyres, take Winston our beagle to the vets about his lump etc etc.

73295 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Ben Shirley, 1, #633 of 1304 🔗

I was dressed smartly and conservatively in the hope of making the cause appear respectable, but I probably just harmed my own image.

Lol bless you.

I feel the frustration. Good for you for still going though, I would have. It’s worth going just to show up I think, and hopefully there would have been some fairly sane people there amongst the loons even if it was 90% loons. I for one am glad people are mentioning Bill Gates because the dude’s a problem, I just wish they were mentioning him in a more….. rational manner rather than in the ‘mark of the beast’ vein. The 5G stuff sends me running for the hills though.

I’m ready to be proved wrong, 5G bashers, believe me, I am, do it. but something tells me you won’t be able to any time soon in the same way Doris won’t be able to prove his lockdown worked.

But hey….. anyway. Any experience is a valuable experience right.

73159 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, 24, #634 of 1304 🔗

Hyde Park Report Pt. II

Incidentally, an observation from the march was that we were met with waves of support from bus drivers and dustmen, which just goes to show that the union leaders and Guardianistas aren’t as au fait with the needs of the workers as they’d like us to think.

Once at Downing Street, we got a bit more Corbyn and then there was an odd religious speech from a coloured gentleman with a large golliwog pinned to his lapel. Returning to my earlier observation about collectivism, I was struck by the unexpected extent of religious fervour running through this protest. I thought religious sentiment had all but disappeared from British public life, so I did wonder at the conviction of the many voices invoking the name of God. For what it’s worth, I’m not without religious sentiment myself, concurring with Hamlet’s advice that “There is more in heaven and earth, Horatio, than is dreamed of in our philosophies,” but I part of my was inclined to doubt the piety of these people when they’re not consumed with fear or indignation.

The protest was still going at 6pm, when the a speaker started banging on about some kind of Whitehall paedophile cabal, and I took that as my cue to leave. Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that if the media and general public wants to believe that lockdown sceptics are all a band of swivel-eyed conspiracy nuts, it’s because the most vocal and attention-grabbing among them are.

Members of StandUpX are correct in perceiving the erosion of our civil liberties and they are perspicacious enough to see where we’re heading with a cashless society, health passports, martial law and so on. Beyond that, they need to reign themselves in a bit because, as a moderate, I felt alienated by their preoccupation with probably unsubstantiated conspiracies with tenuous links to lockdowns and masks.

I will support them as long as they protest for those things which are right and true, because my conscience commands that I must, but I am not one of ‘their’ 99 per cent. There is a dire need for some organised intellectual opposition to the lockdown and masking, because StandUpX is not an intellectual movement. There are plenty of people fit to head such a movement like Brendan O’Neill, Peter Hitchens, Toby Young, Simon Dolan, James Delingpole or Lord Sumption, but for the time being I think we’re best organising ourselves into local groups using the Keep Britain Free forum, which I hope will remain free from StandUpX lunacy as long as they don’t end up falling foul of Facebook thoughtcrime rules.

73179 ▶▶ davews, replying to Ben Shirley, 2, #635 of 1304 🔗

I have never been a protest march person (and never been on one ever) but it looks like this was one to miss. It is not clear from what you say what their aims were apart from some strange accusations that have nothing whatsoever to do with our current issues. But well done for making the attempt to attend.

73187 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ben Shirley, 6, #636 of 1304 🔗

Thanks for your detailed report and sorry you had such a disappointing day.

I’m too far from London to attend such events but I’d noticed their previous rallies had involved a lot about 5G which is no doubt important but I don’t think should be the priority right now, when all that really matters is our freedom in general.

I think it’s important we find a way to hook up with sceptics in our local areas and work at a mor grassroots level. How we do that safely, I’m not entirely sure. Any suggestions gratefully received.

73167 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 5, #637 of 1304 🔗

And this is why Whitty is an evil threat to our Children’s future. Does he have children?

Guess what….


73171 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hotrod, 2, #638 of 1304 🔗

That “article” is just a load of disinformation strung together.

73176 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #639 of 1304 🔗

Typical Groan.

73181 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Cheezilla, 3, #640 of 1304 🔗

But the Guardian are left wing and Boris is right wing. So can anyone explain why the Guardian are doing Boris such a favour every day?

73185 ▶▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to hotrod, 5, #641 of 1304 🔗

Boris is right wing?

Evidence, please.

73208 ▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to hotrod, 15, #642 of 1304 🔗

Boris has just given his younger brother, former junior Cabinet minister, Jo Johnson a seat in the Lords. Jo Johnson is married to a Guardian journo. Boris Johnson is a metropolitan Liberal paired off with another soppy Climate Change activist.

73274 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to hotrod, 2, #643 of 1304 🔗

Because Uncle Bill is paying them to do it.

73289 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to hotrod, 4, #644 of 1304 🔗

Boris is right wing in the same way I am a man.
He’d like to be, but just doesn’t have the stones.

73354 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to hotrod, 1, #645 of 1304 🔗

The Groan ‘left wing’? You’ve really not been paying attention. Since the scott Trust sold out on principles and Viner became editor, the ‘paper’ is known mockingly as ‘The House Journal of MI6’ aka – the black-propaganda feed for the establishment with a veneer of ‘liberalism’.

73172 ▶▶ Gillian, replying to hotrod, #646 of 1304 🔗

No. He’s a bachelor.

73177 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Gillian, 3, #647 of 1304 🔗

So he is not qualified to advise on the matter. He simply hasn’t a clue why we need kids back to school. My god what is he really saying. This is distressing to our children and their futures.

73186 ▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to hotrod, 3, #648 of 1304 🔗

I read that he, aged 15, was with his father (a diplomat) when his father was shot dead in Athens in the early 1980s,but he never speaks of the tragedy. No person could be unaffected by such an event. I suspect they he suffers mental torture.

73180 ▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Gillian, #649 of 1304 🔗

A confirmed one?

73178 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 11, #650 of 1304 🔗

Paul Hunter, professor in medicine at the University of East Anglia, said it had become clear that there is a link between closing schools and controlling the spread of the virus. “The evidence is clear that schools are important in the spread of Covid-19,” he said. “Our studies show that, across Europe, closing schools was the single factor most strongly associated with drops in infection rates.”’
This is simply NOT true – Sweden’s schools remained open and the virus spread no faster than anywhere else…

73182 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Carrie, 3, #651 of 1304 🔗

So who is sponsoring Hunter to pedal these lies?

73219 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 2, #652 of 1304 🔗

Just looked up his bio here: https://people.uea.ac.uk/paul_hunter/info?type=activities
This is amongst his ‘activities’: Chair of Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development/World Health Organization expert group on “Approaches to establishing links between drinking water and infectious disease” 1999
So bit of a link to the WHO…

73245 ▶▶▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Carrie, 1, #653 of 1304 🔗

He’s apparently got a job lined up with the WHO. Just waiting to move on from CMO of UK once things are “sorted”.

73256 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Gillian, 1, #654 of 1304 🔗

It was Hunter’s bio I was quoting from..

I know Whitty has got a job lined up with the WHO.

73214 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Carrie, 1, #655 of 1304 🔗

He has relied on the modelling of the Climategate team at UEA!

73248 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Carrie, #656 of 1304 🔗

I recall that there was a study of a much earlier flu outbreak – in zHong Kong, was it? – when closing schools proved effective because children were susceptible to the virus.
Nothing to do with C19 and, as we all know, completely untrue of C19.
This imbecile would have got a minus score in the eleven-plus.

73276 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #657 of 1304 🔗

From the Swiss site recent update


Children and schools It has been known since March that the risk of disease and transmission in children is minimal in the case of Covid19. The main reason for this is probably a pre-existing immunity due to frequent contact with previous coronaviruses (i.e. cold viruses). There was and is therefore no medical reason for the closure of primary schools, kindergartens and day-care centres and for special protective measures in schools.
In the meantime, further studies on this issue have been published:

  • The British epidemiologist Professor Mark Woolhouse stated that there is not a single confirmed case of infection of a teacher by a pupil worldwide.
  • Tracing pioneer Iceland found “ not a single case where a child under 10 infected their parents.”
  • A joint report from Sweden (without primary school closure) and Finland (with primary school closure) concluded that there was no difference in infection rates among children in the two countries.
  • In the USA, three times more children up to 14 years of age have died of influenza than of Covid-19 (101 versus 31) since the beginning of the year, according to the CDC.
  • A Canadian study found that most of the children with “Kawasaki-like” inflammatory symptoms had no corona infection at all. The disease in children is “very, very rare”, the researchers said.
  • A German study came to the conclusion that children act epidemiologically “like brake blocks” and slow down the spread of the new corona virus.
73337 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Carrie, #658 of 1304 🔗

There have been so many single factors vying for the number one biggest factor that I’ve lost count.

73336 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to hotrod, #659 of 1304 🔗

By acting disproportionately to control the virus Governments across the world overinflated the actual threat.

Is it any wonder that the threat level is used against them in order to leverage demands by those who desire to use it.

73357 ▶▶ RickH, replying to hotrod, #660 of 1304 🔗

This is typical Groan stuff.

It’s not ‘teachers’ : it’s a numpty, Patrick Roach, who is general secretary of the NASUWT a stuck-in-the-mud union which has always been pretty backward and of limited grasp.

73183 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 7, #661 of 1304 🔗

Oxford Centre for Evidence Based Medicine on 31 July reports research from RCGP:

“The levels of suspected COVID-19 have not reached epidemic consultation levels and are dropping dramatically”


73195 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Aremen, #662 of 1304 🔗

Ok, so why does that only get shared on here and not MSM?

Toby, do your job properly.

73238 ▶▶▶ Bugle, replying to hotrod, 7, #663 of 1304 🔗

Toby is really doing this pro bono. His main work is articles for other publications. Not sure he can do more.

73242 ▶▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to Bugle, #664 of 1304 🔗

Yes I know but doesn’t that illustrate the risk to our freedom. It needs someone full time to fight back.

73267 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bugle, 7, #665 of 1304 🔗

Yes big shout out to Toby who if nothing else is saving a lot of people’s sanity.

73246 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to Aremen, 1, #666 of 1304 🔗

Hang on, that article is from April? Was the July version pulled by 77?

73192 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 17, #667 of 1304 🔗

Toby needs to be more to start to represent us all and publicly call Johnson to account.

While this website and forum is great, the voices are not getting out and we need a leader to start the fight back.

Whitty is an unelected dictator – start there.

73216 ▶▶ Azoumi, replying to hotrod, 7, #668 of 1304 🔗

Try Ana Brees media…she has ordinary people upload their stories onto her website, pretty powerful stuff…and, Simon Dolan.

73283 ▶▶ drrobin, replying to hotrod, 1, #669 of 1304 🔗

Understand your frustration, hotrod, but for measure… Toby’s done a sterling job of providing information for a few months; unafraid of speaking freely and publishing details of this site in his Telegraph articles, regularly plugging it on Twitter.

Like him, Ana Brees & Simon Dolan (as mentioned below) are amongst many banging the drum on Twitter, and there’s some fair sense on Talk radio, particularly Mike Graham 10-1pm weekdays – by MSM standards, it’s the best there is on the radio.

Still nothing changes.

As per becjt’s comment earlier – it’s getting hard to sift through info here.
Many of us wish we had leader… the German have thousands protesting today, lots of great photos on Twitter. How did they get organised. Instead all we have today is a horrifying looking set of BLM protestors undermining integration.

to your point, specifically on Whitty, he’s surely a disposal mouthpiece, he isn’t behind the policy I suspect.

73286 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to hotrod, 3, #670 of 1304 🔗

The leader doesn’t have to be Toby though. All respect to him, but I think another articulate but otherwise unknown person would be better. And even better one whose politics are unknown and is capable of carrying a broad church across the political spectrum.

73355 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to hotrod, #671 of 1304 🔗

Maybe start a thread on the forum, we can then look at putting a plan in place.

Rather than on the blog which will disappear.

73194 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 23, #672 of 1304 🔗

Another group who I think are so far gone apart from millenials and wealthy pensioners are hypochondriacs. One of my colleagues has asthma so is anxious about the virus (which I perfectly understand) and has become a total lockdownista – she’s been moaning that we should have locked down earlier, believes that social distancing is for our health despite its totalitarian origins and is glad that mandatory muzzling by visitors in our museum will happen. Trying to tell her that the mandatory muzzling will do nothing for safety but rather accelerate our demise and that antisocial distancing is essentially destroying humanity as we know it is like trying to repeatedly bang my head against a brick wall. People like her have brought wholesale into the Covid religion that no amount of reasoning will sway the fervent belief that they have.

73291 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #673 of 1304 🔗

Fear inhibits rational thinking and without the ability to reason one cannot make an accurate assessment of risk. It is fear that is driving these people and, while I despise them for what they’re doing to the rest of us, I’m trying to understand where it’s coming from. Anything or anyone that assuages their fear is OK with them, including giving up their civil rights. I’m not trying to make excuses for them, but merely trying to understand them. I feel sorry for them when I’m feeling magnanimous — which isn’t very often these days. When I heard it explained this way it became clear to me that no matter what the “numbers” are, until the fear level goes down we are in this for the long haul. My greatest fear is that the evil ones will keep this panic going by just substituting Covid with the regular flu so as to keep all of the draconian measures in place indefinitely. I wasn’t a conspiracy theorist, but I’ve become one now. Gates and big pharma need the panic to continue until a vaccine is ready to be unleashed, and the governments of the world need to keep it up in order to cover for their colossal mistakes in dealing with the outbreak and the ensuing economic destruction. They may not have coordinated in the early days, but they are de facto working together now, albeit toward different goals.

73342 ▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #674 of 1304 🔗

Great comment Lisa. Well said.

73406 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #675 of 1304 🔗

Well said Lisa. She’s not a bad or nasty person but a fearful one and I’m trying to be understanding with her. What is rather alarming is the “me, me, me” attitude that I notice coming out of her and the excuses for the creeping authoritarianism in the name of “safety”. And what’s frustrating is I seem to be a lonely voice in our workplace.

73398 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #676 of 1304 🔗

Has she not realised that it is not recommended that people with chronic respiratory conditions wear masks? It is particularly dangerous for such people to inhibit their breathing (I should know, I’m one of them). I would say it’s also pretty clear she doesn’t realise that asthmatics on inhaled corticosteroids (I assume she is such) are less likely than ‘normal’ people to be seriously affected or die. The inhalers calm down the immune system, preventing it from overreacting to every little thing – and that overreaction is the most likely reason younger or healthier people would have serious effects.

73408 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #677 of 1304 🔗

I tried telling her that but she goes on about “I’m wearing this to protect you and others”. Funny thing was whilst she was talking to me, she was constanly touching her face and readjusting her muzzle. I suspect its not just her fear that’s making her behave like this but she has been badly advised by her GP as well.

73209 Gillian, replying to Gillian, 2, #678 of 1304 🔗

Has this been on the telly yet? Sick-inducing government propaganda


73221 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Gillian, 1, #679 of 1304 🔗

Yes, I saw it earlier (either Sky or ITV – OHMSS is on again!). There’s just been another sick-making one for Coca Cola with George the Poet (ITV).

73233 ▶▶▶ Gillian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #680 of 1304 🔗

They don’t tell you that Coca Cola and other fizzy drinks are implicated in diabetes causation and we know that diabetes is a major factor in covid 19 complications. The ad is rank hypocrisy.

73235 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #681 of 1304 🔗

Yep, “Get tested and get back to what we love”. Except the twats have just cancelled what we love for 5 million people.

73239 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #682 of 1304 🔗

‘Get tested so we can quickly harvest everyone’s DNA and issue covipasses, otherwise there will be no more travel for you’…

Why should people ‘get tested’ if they are not actually seriously ill, unless they are doing it to get everyone’s DNA?

73237 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Gillian, 6, #683 of 1304 🔗

Yep, that’s awful. Lets burn more money the country hasn’t got on advertising from The Ministry of Truth pushing utterly pointless initiatives.

73273 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #684 of 1304 🔗

Definitely not pointless. See UKC analysis of the psy-op.

73270 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Gillian, 4, #685 of 1304 🔗

UK Column did a scathing analysis of it on Friday. They did warn us to get a container before we watched it.

However, they also looked at the psychological manipulation and the vocabulary in it. Worth a watch.


73275 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #686 of 1304 🔗

Anyone on here who has not watched UK Column News yet should have a look.

They are live on YT every Monday, Wednesday & Friday at 13:00

73278 ▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Dave #KBF, 1, #687 of 1304 🔗

The only TV news worth watching.

73481 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Harry hopkins, -1, #688 of 1304 🔗

There is an interesting shortened UKColumn news from 2016 done from a car. They had been accused of being ‘too television-like’ by an arm of ofcom (afda? – now defunct killed but UKC). UKC out strip all TV so the accusation of being ‘too television-like’ was dreamed up in an effort to have them regulated. It’s worthwhile seeking out the episode for some light relief from today’s worries. Humour is a powerful weapon.

73370 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Gillian, #689 of 1304 🔗

Unfortunately, it’s much easier to scare the naive than to convince them that the scare is over—hence the ton of masks even when just walking around.

73227 DThom, replying to DThom, 12, #690 of 1304 🔗

Following my “discussion” with a neighbour last night regarding masks when he basically called me an arsehole. This picture arrived from another neighbour (a close friend of my neighbour). What a prat. I asked him if he was trolling me!

73234 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to DThom, 8, #691 of 1304 🔗

That’s very disturbing.

73252 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to DThom, 12, #692 of 1304 🔗

On this occasion, I believe a call to the police would be warranted on grounds of harassment.

73259 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DThom, 5, #693 of 1304 🔗

That’s beyond the pale. I agree with Tyneside Tigress, perhaps a call to the police is in order.

73271 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #694 of 1304 🔗

Good luck with that…..

73288 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to DThom, 2, #695 of 1304 🔗

Wow man, they really do care a little too much, don’t they?

73367 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Farinances, 1, #696 of 1304 🔗

They “care” because they now have a Pavlovian response 😉

73290 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to DThom, 5, #697 of 1304 🔗

That’s the modern day equivalent of “burn the witch”.

73366 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to DThom, 1, #698 of 1304 🔗
73231 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #699 of 1304 🔗

Carl Heneghan was awesome on The Spectators Coffee House Shots Pod earlier today – highly recommended.


73510 ▶▶ Jonathan Smith, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #700 of 1304 🔗

He’s been awesome throughout which is why ITN & BBC never call on him.

73232 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 9, #701 of 1304 🔗

Be very afraid. Matt Hancock is worried about our mental health (Express).

73236 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bugle, 12, #702 of 1304 🔗

…and the coronavirus legislation allows them to section people on the say-so of only one doctor instead of 2. Are they going to start locking up dissenters know, on the basis that they are mentally ill?

73269 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Carrie, 2, #703 of 1304 🔗

Yep, I suspected this when I read the Coronavirus Bill in March 😔

73240 ▶▶ annie, replying to Bugle, 9, #704 of 1304 🔗

Well, they do say that madmen think everybody is mad except themselves.

73241 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Bugle, 6, #705 of 1304 🔗

Apparently he’s doing everything he can to mitigate the damage…. very thoughtful and caring chap isn’t he.

73243 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Bugle, 2, #706 of 1304 🔗

Strangely the comments section on the article is ‘unavailable’. Can’t think why!?

73279 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Bugle, 1, #707 of 1304 🔗

Right that’s it, he’s really done it this time!! How dare he?

73307 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bugle, #708 of 1304 🔗

I’m worried about his general health.

73318 ▶▶▶ Tom Blackburn, replying to Farinances, 2, #709 of 1304 🔗

The man is a despot. If he told the Queen to hide in a box, she’d do it.

73352 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tom Blackburn, 2, #710 of 1304 🔗

No – just one of the ‘feckin’ eejits’, I think. He hasn’t got the intelligence to be a despot.

I’ve gradually swung back towards the idea that the politicians are being worked, rather than leading this.

It’s been obvious for a long time that, although many are indeed shit on the shoe of a decent society, another major shared quality of this particular shower is that they’re patently pretty dim.

73517 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tom Blackburn, #711 of 1304 🔗

Re the Queen – not heard anything much from her of late.. Rumours that she will not (ever?) move back to London but will stay in Windsor, not sure why? Also that loads of her London staff have been laid off. Does she know something about the length of this fiasco that we do not?

73412 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bugle, 1, #712 of 1304 🔗

I won’t be surprised if Lieutenant Gruber is on of those who was relentlessly bullied as a child or ignored or when he was younger was dumped by a woman that he was dating or courting. Such traumas could be one reason why he’s taking it out on the hapless British public and is almost taking a sadistic pleasure in doing so.

73258 AN other lockdown sceptic, 2, #713 of 1304 🔗

Life Returning To Normal In Sweden. Tony Heller on form.

73264 Cheezilla, #714 of 1304 🔗

Was reminded of the End of the World sketch from Beyond The Fringe. Back in the day when the BBC did great satire:


73265 Dave #KBF, 11, #715 of 1304 🔗

Retail Report

Just been to Morrisons, on a Saturday night many young adults buying booze, you would think some of them would be a bit rebellious, not a one of them.

Do they know the potential damage they are doing to their respiratory system, probably not.

Couple about my age, masks & face shields, both carrying a bit of excess weight, much like myself, blocking their airflow cannot be good for them.

I was the only one not face covered, apart from one young woman behind the plexiglas screen on the checkout. Asked her if they have to wear masks when not behind the screen she said yes. One supervisor had his mask on his chin.

Was hoping to see at least one more smile, it was not to be.

73287 richard riewer, #716 of 1304 🔗

Pfizer’s ad spending 2008-2019
Published by Matej Mikulic, Mar 10, 2020
The advertising costs of Pfizer totaled approximately 2.6 billion U.S. dollars in 2019, a decrease of 500 million U.S. dollars on the previous year. The company’s advertising spend has averaged three billion U.S. dollars per year since 2012.

What are Pfizer’s biggest expenses?
Pfizer spent around 14.4 billion U.S. dollars on selling, informational, and administrative expenses in 2019 – this segment, which includes advertising costs, accounted for the company’s biggest expense during the year. Spending on research and development is another of Pfizer’s highest costs, but discovering new drugs and adding value to existing products is vital to the success of the company.
Pfizer has properties in more than 90 countries and a global workforce of approximately 88,000 employees. The company’s global headquarters is based in New York City, but plans are in place to move across Manhattan to a new property in 2022. Pfizer’s roots in the city can be traced back to 1849 when cousins Charles Pfizer and Charles Erhart founded the company in Brooklyn.

73292 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 10, #717 of 1304 🔗

Don’t know if anyone here listens to Spiked’s Last Orders podcast, but this month’s contains another one of those amazing cognitive dissonances, where someone you thought you could rely on turns out to be a bed wetter of the first order.

I’ve been a fan of Chris Snowdon’s for a long time, but it turns out he’s been taken in by the Covid BS data, models, etc. etc. He may not be scared of smoking a pack of 20 in an hour while drinking original Irnbru and feeding £20 notes into a fruit machine, but he’s shit scared of Covid. And his verdict on masks: “If you find it an imposition to wear a mask in a shop, then you’re spending too much time shopping”.

And Brendan O’Neill isn’t much better. You think he might be seriously principled about freedom, but it seems to be more of an intellectual exercise for him than a point of principle. Masks are “not the hill you want to die on”. Maybe not, for him, but if someone thinks it is – because they’ve thought about it more than he has – I wouldn’t dismiss them as “crazy” or a “nutter”.

73300 ▶▶ Mark II, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #718 of 1304 🔗

Are some people still claiming its just 20mins in a shop? Even tho is extends far beyond shops and even if you only did 1 ‘big shop’ a week its almost certainly gonna be more than 20 minutes anyway. Playing fast and loose with reality they are.

73306 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #719 of 1304 🔗

Ugh no. Disappointing.

73333 ▶▶ Pete1, replying to Barney McGrew, #720 of 1304 🔗

Very good point. Farage, Rod Liddle, Melanie Philips, Andrew Lillico, Tom Harwood, the entirity of the Conservative party, including the ERG, have all been absolutely useless. Completely turned away or been active fans of mask wearing. Douglas Swayne and Steve Baker made one or two minor objections but then backed down. Swayne because he’s weak, Baker because he’s a self serving narcissist of the highest order.

Indeed, it’s been interesting to note that so many brexiteers have sold their rebellious anti establishment natures, and signed up to the left wing global establishment on covid. I think in reality many weren’t very rebellious in the first place.

Neil Clark from the left has been very good, but aside from pretty much only the libertarian right, it seems this country is overwhelmingly woke, pro big government, globalists. God help us.

73335 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #721 of 1304 🔗

Since when has government diktat requiring us to interfere with our normal physiological processes (in this case breathing) not been a matter of grave concern?

It’s v sad that people like O’Neill, Snowdon and Liddle can’t see what’s at stake especially in the context of AI and brain-computer interfaces. Presumably these commentators would accept that there was good reason to have mandatory wearing of health monitoring equipment by all citizens. This would alert the state to when a citizen was having a health crisis and automatically despatch an ambulance to attend. What’s not to like? It would definitely “save lives” – and that’s all that matters, isn’t it?

73343 ▶▶▶ Carlo, replying to OKUK, #722 of 1304 🔗

Thought they are with us.

73349 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #723 of 1304 🔗

The real infection is the massive growth of what, in Father Ted, are called ‘feckin’ eejits’.

73353 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to RickH, 2, #724 of 1304 🔗

Go on, go on, go on, go on… you know you want the vaccine…it’s just a little prick, sure you’ll hardly notice it. Go on, go on, go on…

73383 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to OKUK, 2, #725 of 1304 🔗

Just one little prick?The government has dozens on offer.

73373 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #726 of 1304 🔗

Chris Snowdon switched to vaping several years ago. I listened to the podcast and was slightly shocked when he made that statement about masks. Totally out of character for someone who has ranted about the Nanny State for the past fifteen years. I don’t think that those three people are having as difficult a time of it than the rest of us. They also made a few disparaging remarks about lockdown skeptic groups like this one.

73304 Tom Blackburn, replying to Tom Blackburn, 4, #727 of 1304 🔗

Beachtung macht Frei

73381 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tom Blackburn, #728 of 1304 🔗

Und kiechen macht sicher!

73389 ▶▶ Ewan Duffy, replying to Tom Blackburn, #729 of 1304 🔗

Impfungen macht frei

73310 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 15, #730 of 1304 🔗

Anyone have the misfortune of seeing Channel 4’s F1 coverage today? I just caught about five minutes, but then nausea took over. It was an extremely sickly combination of rich, ‘masculine’ men (the presenters, including ex-drivers) combined with “staying safe” – a truly revolting juxtaposition. Channel 4 and the F1 organisation had clearly decreed that every single person seen on screen should be wearing a mask, and the camerawork was designed to emphasise that the presenters were all six feet apart from each other. The teams all had their own, branded ‘cutting edge’ masks featuring a structured, pointy ridge down the front and team logo in strong colours. Wow. So cool.

Then we had a look at some of the cars and what it said on the side of them: “Thank you NHS” and “End racism now” were two particularly good examples. And a team has decided that a way to show their solidarity with wokeness is to make the car and team overalls a particularly feminine shade of pink. The drivers are being interviewed and you just know you’re being preached at every second you endure it.

I turned over to look for something more genuine and less virtue signalling.

73323 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Barney McGrew, 9, #731 of 1304 🔗

Thanks for the report. F1 died long ago with Senna.

“Thank you NHS” and “End racism now” were two particularly good examples……

So, cricket bats with end greta of arc and golf balls with take a knee are to come. Did tennis players yet take a knee on court?

Is it a generational acceptance that merc – the nazi wagon – can vitue signal oh so earnestly. Has Hamilton mentioned those black histories of his ‘sports’ financiers? He looks more ridiculous by the day.

73405 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Basics, 2, #732 of 1304 🔗

All this virtue signalling yet they would’ve been racing in multiple countries with high levels of human rights abuses and dictators in charge (UK included now!).

Hamilton the Marxist is earning £50 million a year and has a net worth of half a billion pounds, I’m with him if all comrades earn this kind of money!

73371 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #733 of 1304 🔗

I worked in F1 for ten plus years. I worked for Williams who have the NHS stickers for eight years. It’s been sickening to see F1 cowtowing to this narrative. In fact it was the first races in Austria that convinced me that masks would become compulsory in the UK. Every driver was wearing one despite social distancing. You never see a face! A deal has been done with Liberty Media and TPTB. Scumbags

73409 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #734 of 1304 🔗

Those face masks are just yet another marketing ploy from F1 & Liberty Media. Much like the caps which they charge anything from £40 to £100 for, they are now selling the Face Masks for £35, which are probably being mass produced in China for less than £1.

73380 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 7, #735 of 1304 🔗

Channel 4 gives me instant nausea with its permanent ‘stay safe’ message.I’m not watching anything on their horrible network until they take those messages right off.

73403 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #736 of 1304 🔗

None of the masks fit correctly either. When you watch the interviews they keep slipping down their noses and they keep having to touch the mask and push it back up all the time.

I now only watch the race from 2:09pm till the winner crosses the line, as it is now just all virtue signalling.

So much for the spread of the virus though, I watched the first podium of the year, they opened the Champagne, all three took a swig out of their respective bottle, then proceeded to spray it over each other and their team mates, the aerosol would probably send particles further into the paddock as well, thus spreading the virus to multiple people. Yet, this is all classified as being safe, but being within 2 metres of another person without a mask isn’t.

73545 ▶▶▶ kf99, replying to JohnB, 1, #737 of 1304 🔗

The snooker has been refreshing. No masks, no virtue signalling (so far). Is Barry Hearn a sceptic?

73311 nfw, replying to nfw, 10, #738 of 1304 🔗

Was the “surge” in cases in the North West that prompted the Government to impose a local lockdown on more than four million people due to 14 additional people testing positive? It certainly looks that way.

Here they go again pretending a “case” is something bad. It’s just more lying to the public. It is inevitable the Wuhan Virus Flu will spread to everybody at this rate so let’s get on with it and get it over and done with. It has nothing to do with reality but continued fear-mongering and power grabbing. Just pathetic. As I say the Gestapo would have had difficulty in the UK, not with finding snitches, but dealing with the large number or “reports” it would receive from the frightened obedient sheep.

73344 ▶▶ RickH, replying to nfw, 2, #739 of 1304 🔗

Of course it was that. We knew it from the start.

The whole thing was what is known in epidemiological terms as ‘Total Bollocks’.

73314 hotrod, 5, #740 of 1304 🔗

Has the wormed turned?

Comments below are now surely a concern for HMG.

This plan is NEW news.


73319 nfw, replying to nfw, 14, #741 of 1304 🔗

“Flatten the curve” (crap anyway) was supposed to be about reducing deaths. Well, good golly gee, that happened so the vested interests had to switch it to “cases” lest their relevance become irrelevant. They never bother to explain “exactly” what a “case” is so they allow the general Karens and Chads to conflate “cases” with deaths. More lies of omission in the great power grab. Funny how TB, which killed 1.8 million in 2018, gets free passes.

73327 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to nfw, 3, #742 of 1304 🔗

Flatten the curve was about reducing the strain on the NHS.

73379 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #743 of 1304 🔗

Well, that worked, with people meekly dying at home rather than bother the NHS heroes.

73414 ▶▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to annie, 2, #744 of 1304 🔗

And many NHS hospitals having been pretty much empty for the last 4 months.

73360 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to nfw, 3, #745 of 1304 🔗

While I was initially dismissive of it, it is the classical Stanford Prison Experiment:- the “guards” are drunk on power and are (subconsciously?) pushing the envolope… Someone needs to snap them out of it just like Zimbardo’s girlfriend snapped him out of it at the time.

73322 DavidC, replying to DavidC, 6, #746 of 1304 🔗

An article on ZeroHedge tonight about big pharma getting immunity from Covid-19 vaccine side effects;

Another reason not to take it.

The biggest decreases in deaths from infectious diseases (measles, rubella etc etc) came about as a result of improved public health. Most (if not all, I’m not 100% sure) vaccines have been introduced when the diseases were already falling dramatically anyway. Not to say there isn’t a value in them but they should be regarded in the broader scheme of health.


73325 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to DavidC, 1, #747 of 1304 🔗

Read “Dissolving Illusions” by Suzanne Humphries

73330 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to DavidC, 3, #748 of 1304 🔗

Totally agree DavidC. Another factor is that diseases like measles that in the past could kill essentially healthy children are far less lethal now thanks to huge improvements in intensive care over the last 50 years. Sadly, it is now impossible to have a rational debate about the value of vaccines on a case by case basis.

73339 ▶▶ RickH, replying to DavidC, 6, #749 of 1304 🔗

Anyone assenting to a vaccine produced under that exemption is sadly deluded.

This is circumstantial proof of a scam in operation.

73363 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to DavidC, #750 of 1304 🔗

We had a bit of a discussion about this last night: https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/07/31/latest-news-90/#comment-72033

73364 ▶▶ Markus, replying to DavidC, #751 of 1304 🔗

There’s a funny quote from one of the members of Zeneca team.

This is a unique situation where we as a company simply cannot take the risk if in … four years the vaccine is showing side effects,” Ruud Dobber, a member of Astra’s senior executive team, told Reuters.”

Why would anyone take a vaccine from AZ after such a statement? Or any other company for that matter… They are saying that we have no idea how safe this is and you people just have to take the risk, we take the money, if something happens screw you!


73394 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to DavidC, #752 of 1304 🔗

This is nothing new for companies that provide vaccines.

73397 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 2, #753 of 1304 🔗

I should also say that all Vaccines kill and disable, yet the mantra that’s being used to keep us in Lockdown is “If it saves just one life”. Well any vaccine will “lose more than one life” and the COVID-19 vaccine is expected to lose 700,000 of the these lives worldwide, so why don’t these lives matter? Is it because these people who want it believe they’ll be ok, so sod the rest of them who die as long as I’m ok, it’s really very much a selfish attitude, yet if someone doesn’t wear a mask they will point out that you are so selfish and are killing others.

73410 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to DavidC, #754 of 1304 🔗

Another aspect to this is that we are being cautioned via the media to understand that the vaccine might not actually work – in the sense of creating permanent immunity.

Professor Sarah Gilbert said a vaccine would only be likely to “take the edge off” symptoms, rather than giving complete protection.

In which case, it isn’t going to be the panacea that allows the world to go back to normal. So for all those people who just don’t understand why we, here, are getting so worked up about this, can they tell us where they see this ending? From where I’m sitting, not even the mythical vaccine will do it.

73332 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #755 of 1304 🔗

Oh my. Irrational fear?

Huge rise in Americans researching how to move to New Zealand – where coronavirus is under control

According to The New Zealand Herald, some 112,800 more Americans visited New Zealand’s immigration website last month compared to the same time last year.

At the same time, one American was clicking on the immigration website each minute, according to the Herald’s analysis.

The report also noted an increase in Google searches with the term ”move to New Zealand” last month.

73334 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Nobody2020, 8, #756 of 1304 🔗

We all need to sort out our own countries / governments not runaway.

73338 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #757 of 1304 🔗

Irrational fear indeed. The psy-ops has done immense damage.

73340 ▶▶ nfw, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #758 of 1304 🔗

Well that will help the Kiwis with infected Americans wanting to move there.

73378 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #759 of 1304 🔗

Some hope. NZ now psychotically suspicious of anybody from Outside.

73382 ▶▶ Lockdown_Lunacy, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #760 of 1304 🔗

Maybe we should give the most fanatical lockdown enthusiasts free one way flights over to NZ so they can check it out before they move? Then ban incoming passenger flights from NZ.

73441 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Nobody2020, #761 of 1304 🔗

I hsve been fed move to NZ ads during this time through a vpn and cookies rejected on sites. It is not something I have searched for or messaged about.

73341 nfw, replying to nfw, 8, #762 of 1304 🔗

I always thought Boris Johnson was a moron and he never goes out of his way to disprove his totalitarian and authoritarian ways does he. Born of the ruling class he certainly knows what’s best for the sheeple. How did he contract Wuhan Virus Flu and will he ever set an example and lose weight?

73396 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to nfw, 3, #763 of 1304 🔗

The only case I know of is the head of the local path lab (in his 60s) who presumably caught it from a patient.

Dreadful few weeks but just avoided hospitalisation.

His wife didn’t get it.

Not overweight to start with, he lost 16 kg.

How come BJ didn’t lose more?

73417 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Alec in France, 2, #764 of 1304 🔗

BJ didn’t lose more because he was on a foie gras drip the whole time!

73345 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 5, #765 of 1304 🔗

Could someone please explain to me why testing positive is deemed so dangerous? Maybe it’s just in the body after contact with someone else but is not a danger in itself?

73351 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to richard riewer, 5, #766 of 1304 🔗

My hunch is that just about anyone who has been out and about in the last six months will have been exposed to the virus. The latest evidence stresses the importance of airborne infection in enclosed spaces. 90% of us go to the same supermarkets and stores as everyone else in a locality so I think we will nearly all have been exposed to the virus. 99% of us will have seen off the virus successfully.

73359 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to OKUK, 1, #767 of 1304 🔗

Infected people “spread” less than media makes out: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0015100 and a large portion of that is in large enough droplets to actually sink to the floor within 1m

73358 ▶▶ Pete1, replying to richard riewer, #768 of 1304 🔗

Oh for such a question to appear on the BBC website. Just one common sense mildly not even critical question. But no, just tumbleweed and out and out propaganda. I despair.

73362 ▶▶ RickH, replying to richard riewer, 2, #769 of 1304 🔗

‘Testing positive’ means …. errrr…. pass.

73402 ▶▶ The Spingler, replying to richard riewer, 3, #770 of 1304 🔗

Talking to a vet this week. He said that coronavirus in dogs and cats are very common, there’s even a vaccine for cats against cv’s. So basically any small animal vet will test positive for coronavirus because they are around it for the majority of their working life and the basic tests being done to identify cases in humans are not accurate enough to distinguish between different coronavirus. You need to do the blood tests for that not simple swab tests.

73356 richard riewer, 1, #771 of 1304 🔗

Diversity Training? What happened to World Fusion Music?

73361 RickH, replying to RickH, 17, #772 of 1304 🔗

One issue that hasn’t been mentioned much of late is the probable lowering of general natural immunity in the population after lock-up and dances of social distance.

This could be one of the major knock-on effects of the disproportionate idiocy that we have suffered.

It is quite possible that the government have actually *created* a worse multi- infection season for 2020/21 by their stupidity.

Of course – that will be used as a rationale for yet more idiocy.

73369 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to RickH, 10, #773 of 1304 🔗

Together with god knows what pulmonary problems because they’ve been breathing heck knows what; and toxicity build up through dermal absorbtion of whatever hand sanitiser crap they’ve being over-using…

73372 ▶▶▶ sunchap, replying to IMoz, 3, #774 of 1304 🔗

Yes. What is that sanitiser muck!

I am starting to think Trump may lose due to economic collapse created by shutdowns. But maybe his fault for agreeing to stupid shutdowns?

73376 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to sunchap, 4, #775 of 1304 🔗

Bacterial resistance will be going full blast with that stuff bring sloshed around.

73391 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to annie, 3, #776 of 1304 🔗

Most sanitisers are basically alcohol, there’s nothing medical in them. They’re disgusting and can cause skin problems, but there’s nothing in most at least that microorganisms can become resistant to – they die in alcohol, and nothing will change that. It may be more fundamental than that (DNA degradation maybe?) since viruses aren’t really alive, but will also be ‘killed’ by alcohol.

73439 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #777 of 1304 🔗

The bottles in my workplace say the muck kills 99% of bacteria.

73446 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to annie, #778 of 1304 🔗

It’s evil. I am attempting to ban the use of it in my shop. Had three quite severe allergic reactions to the stuff already. My customers’ desire to ‘feel’ safe does not trump my right to ‘be’ safe. My ‘No Face Masks in Here’ sign seems to be doing the trick also (beauty of it is, it can be taken either way!)

73592 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to annie, #779 of 1304 🔗

Bacteria? Probably after working the sanitiser for 2 minutes? Incidentallty, COVID-19 is not a bacterial disease, do those buying it know that?

73577 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to DoesDimSyniad, #780 of 1304 🔗

Actually a lot of sanitisers (if one bothers to read the instructions) say you need to work the sanitiser for two minutes. What most people end up doing is… well, actually I have no idea what they end up doing, but it’s not what they think!

73377 ▶▶▶▶ Eddie, replying to sunchap, 13, #781 of 1304 🔗

I agree, that stuff is disgusting. When I go to a store that says I need to use it upon entry, I do a couple fake pumps, clasp my hands together and rub absolutely nothing into my skin.

73400 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rick, replying to Eddie, 2, #782 of 1304 🔗

Research in hospital infection sites through swab tests shows that the pump top of hand sanitiser stations are the dirtiest place! Don’t touch the things.

73440 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Rick, #783 of 1304 🔗

Please help yourself, but don’t touch the pump.

73374 richard riewer, #784 of 1304 🔗

Anyone here know about the Global Link Network? They funnel just about everything around the world.

73384 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 10, #785 of 1304 🔗

So, welcome Herd Stupidity- the New Normal.

Easier to achieve, apparently, than Herd Immunity, which would lead to resumption of normal activities and a functioning economy .

😷 😷 😷

73386 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to wendyk, 9, #786 of 1304 🔗

I do wonder if people have been watching too many old disaster and horror films during lock-down and have worked themselves up into a frazzle over this virus?
At the start of all this, actions were at least based on real concrete facts such as registered deaths and number of serious hospital cases but now the circus is being driven along by much more spurious information, dodgy pillar 2 test results (so called cases!) and this mystery R number.
I gather that it is the R number that is why someone has come up with the witless idea of closing pubs so they can open schools, the idea being that closing the pubs puts the R number down, opening schools puts the R number up. Which suggests to me that the R number is subjective and not objective, as the effect on virus transmission of pubs opening cannot be measured and must be a matter of opinion.
Does it not occur to these experts that if they have a formula that leads them to come out with this twaddle then maybe they need to re-examine their formula?
As it is I imagine hapless hancock and gloomy witty sitting round a cauldron like Macbeth’s witches, eye of newt and toe of frog and out pops the R number and we must all run around like headless chickens as a result.

73387 ▶▶▶ wendyk, replying to Steve Martindale, 3, #787 of 1304 🔗

I’ve always thought that it all seems a bit Blue Peterish:’ here’s one I made (up) earlier’.

Or, Monty Python’s Spanish Inquisition.

But Macbeth’s witches is just as good.

73393 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steve Martindale, #788 of 1304 🔗

As I’m in Ireland I’m following very closely what is happening in this country.

On the 15th July the Taoiseach announced his government was going to issue a a mask edict. One of his justifications was that the R number: “ has now risen above ‘1’ in this country.

Well in the first fortnight in July, before he spoke, there ware 197 cases and in the last fortnight there were 335 cases. (This is leaving out the 15th – 17th in order to compare the same number of days). Which suggests the ‘R’ numbe was correctly spotted – though how beats me.

The mortality figures, however, were little different – 10 in the first fortnight 11 in the second. (These mortality figures seem very prone to being revised – a daily count gave me 21 in the first fortnight and 13 in the second – but 13 deaths appear to have been subsequently ‘reclassified’ as not being Covid deaths)

The mortality figures could surely not have prompted the mask edict. June’s count was more than three times that of July’s. What will the count be in August?

73401 ▶▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #789 of 1304 🔗

I think that whenever people pronounce that the R rate has gone up or down they should be obliged to say why? what has caused the change? I gather that in Wales a while back there was concern that the R rate had gone up but it turned out that it was all related to outbreaks at a meat processing plant and not in the wider population, similarly here in the South West we were told shock-horror the R rate had gone up but it turned out it was related to a batch of incorrect test results at one hospital. In all this the politicians have been reluctant to question the ‘experts’ and just kowtowed to their pronouncements. The result has been that the tail has been wagging the dog and we have all suffered a tirade of nonsense.

73442 ▶▶▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #790 of 1304 🔗

Agreed. They should be questioned more closely. This may well start to happen with the regional lockdown ‘up North’.

73385 annie, 6, #791 of 1304 🔗

Peter Hutchens has a go at the fearmongers in the Mail on S.
Even more worth reading: comments on nappified blood donations:

73388 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, #792 of 1304 🔗

The UK’s “excess deaths” are by far the youngest in Europe. Why?


73450 ▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 2, #793 of 1304 🔗

Why? Because they are protecting the NHS.With their lives.

73399 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 4, #794 of 1304 🔗

Hitchens says:

For daring to stay calm, I am then accused of being a collaborator with the wicked Nazi virus. The played-out, once-independent magazine Private Eye, now a boring mouthpiece of wokeness, actually did this to me last week.

Does anyone here have access to Private Eye? I’d be interested to know how they did that.

73444 ▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #795 of 1304 🔗

And does anybody have regular access to New Scientist? I only see it occasionally and I’ve yet to see the smallest quiver of criticism of covvibollix. It seems to be their holy writ. And yet they never stop sneering at religious beliefs…

73453 ▶▶ Charles, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #796 of 1304 🔗

See pic.

73509 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Charles, 1, #797 of 1304 🔗

Many thanks, Charles. Oh, so smug about Delingpole’s (probable) foot binding mistake. But note their weasel words: “foot binding was widely practised in China not Japan”. Because they’ve obviously had to look it up in Wikipedia themselves, and found to their dismay that in fact foot binding was practised in Japan, too. But the Chinese version is more well known.


74113 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Charles, 1, #798 of 1304 🔗

Really glad I’ve cancelled my subscription. Unfortunately my direct debit doesn’t expire till next month…

73404 Albie, replying to Albie, 17, #799 of 1304 🔗

Victoria, Australia has declared a “state of disaster”. Talk about hysterical. The problem is, if in the future they have a genuine state of disaster then nobody will bat an eyelid. The boy who cried wolf has been cited many times by sceptics for good reason.

73413 ▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Albie, 8, #800 of 1304 🔗

They have completely lost the plot:


209 deaths in Australia total! 7 new deaths:

The fatalities included three women in their 70s, two women in their 80s, one man in his 90s and one woman in her 90s.
Of those deaths, six were connected to aged care.

73423 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sarigan, 3, #801 of 1304 🔗

Surely no one can deny the importance of doing whatever it takes, sacraficing everything, however damaging to our lives, to stop people from dying of old age!

There is a state of disaster in many places due to the irrational response to a nasty cough

73436 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Sarigan, 1, #802 of 1304 🔗

‘connected to aged care’
You mean murdered by their jailers?

73418 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Albie, #803 of 1304 🔗

It’s known as “believing your own propaganda”.

73407 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 44, #804 of 1304 🔗

We know that our behaviour is being modified by so called specialists on SAGE from way back in March when, in the minutes of their meetings, it talked of us “ not being sufficiently threatened personally”

We know that the government took us into lockdown without ever knowing how the hell they were going to get us out of it because by then our behaviour had been sufficiently modified and turned us into terrified zombies.

We know that these local lockdowns are based on the flimsiest of evidence, a few odd cases here and there, but no rise in hospitalisations and deaths. likewise with quarantine- it’s safer in large parts of Spain than it is here.

We know that mandatory wearing of masks is just a psychological exercise to get us “feeling safe” and out and about shopping, travelling and spending money again and has absolutely nothing to do with public health.

We know that protests marches and days on the beach haven’t caused any spikes at all.

We know that the tests are crap and the more tests that are done, the more positive cases are found.

We know that they have failed at everything they have tried to do:PPE, T and T,
widespread testing, care homes, reliable data etc etc.

We know that they are putting us under such enormous mental pressure, so much so, that they are actually hoping that this whole lockdown thing falls apart because we can’t take any more. Then it will be our fault, not theirs. Then they can blame us for anything that happens in the future:we didn’t adhere to lockdown, we didn’t wear masks, we hugged our grandchildren, we went on holiday, seven people met in our garden instead of six, we didn’t social distance etc etc.

We know all of these things.

They know that we know.

It’s up to US to do something about it because THEY are totally, utterly and completely lost. They are terrified. WE need to help them out.

Let’s do it.

73416 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Margaret, 7, #805 of 1304 🔗

Quite likely one of the most perspicacious comments I have seen in a long time! Quite right too, let’s do it.

73420 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Margaret, 8, #806 of 1304 🔗

Spot on.
BUT, ‘let’s do it’? How? This is a theme which crops up time and time again on this forum, and none of us can see a way forward. Except for the sweary shouty posters advocating lynchings and murder. Most of us seem to be relying on the general population gradually realising that the entire lockdown/muzzle thing can be safely disregarded.
BTW Margaret I would vote for you.

73426 ▶▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to bluemoon, 6, #807 of 1304 🔗

This sounds like a call to reform some sort of Levellers movement. The Levellers were great pamphleteers and so maye that is an avenue to pursue? If we could draft up a pamphlet entitled something like ‘the case against the current Coronavirus control policies’ we could fire it off into internet land, see what happens and take it from there.

73430 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #808 of 1304 🔗

great idea, could even fire it off through letter boxes

73432 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #809 of 1304 🔗

if the pamphlet contain only data based factual info why not put it in ‘news’ papers as advertisments

73458 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Major Panic, 1, #810 of 1304 🔗

Much as the government are doing with TV and newspaper ads? Incredibly expensive and may well be refused by the media.

73491 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to bluemoon, #811 of 1304 🔗

local papers

73500 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #812 of 1304 🔗

Hmmph… or we could just keep moaning amongst ourselves saying the same thing over and over again…. ”something must be done”

73493 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to bluemoon, 9, #813 of 1304 🔗

This has given me an idea for my shop. I think I will print my own leaflets and leave them in and amongst the newspapers and touristy info’ stuff we have for customers.

I have been disagreeing with any customer who bangs on about the “new normal” for several weeks now. Yesterday when someone asked if she should wear a mask to come in to pay I said “certainly not”, got a bit of a look at that and then I added “I find them quite sinister actually” I suspect she may not be back. Another asked which way round she should walk so I told her any way she liked (that didn’t go down well).

As I said yesterday, if I get crappy reviews for being normal, so be it. But I am not going to be cowed by this bollocks (as ever, s’cuse language).

73530 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 1, #814 of 1304 🔗

A fab idea, and it might get through to some of the sheeple. Keep it simple though, no words of more than three syllables!

73563 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to bluemoon, 2, #815 of 1304 🔗

You’re right on that. It’s depressing how much people have been brainwashed. I get asked so many times “and how are you now? They really do believe the rot about putting the economy on ‘pause’ So, I tell ’em exactly how I am and they look at me like goosed dowager duchesses.

Already got my laminated fact sheet about the hand sanitsier crap so will get to work on yet more facts about the ‘rona!

73581 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 2, #816 of 1304 🔗

Well I hope you’re sanitising the laminated fact sheets about the hand sanitiser crap!! Cant be too careful y’know!

73607 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to bluemoon, #817 of 1304 🔗

Oh yes, gotta “stay safe”

73615 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 1, #818 of 1304 🔗

No, no, we like sweary girls. And if you also drink pints, I would like to order a signed photo. 🙂

73624 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, #819 of 1304 🔗

Sorry Sam, I drink pints of tea! Don’t drink these days, can’t cope with the hangovers!

73680 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 1, #820 of 1304 🔗

‘S ok, I’ll drink yours, Problem shared an all that.

73431 ▶▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Steve Martindale, #821 of 1304 🔗

‘The Bare Faces’

73434 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Steve Martindale, #822 of 1304 🔗

Dunno. I think any kind of mission statement would get buried in all the noise. Or taken down…….. sorry not being constructive am I.

73487 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to bluemoon, 5, #823 of 1304 🔗

Thank you bluemoon. When I say “do it”. I mean ignore totally ALL the stupid, pathetic lockdown rules and quarantine rules that we can possibly ignore- not just masks. We have to be brave enough, like Biker, Annie et al, to put our heads above the parapet. I’m not saying that it will be easy.

There are lots of people that I’ve spoken to and “chipped away at” (in a previous post) they know it’s all rubbish too but are too worried about what people will think if they don’t follow what they see as public opinion. They are waiting for others to crack first so we have to show them the way-lots of comments on here about people taking masks off when they see others doing it, challenging silly rules, only small things, I know, but that’s all it takes.

Send your friends a Covid Quiz to see how much they really know. Keep writing to shops, organisations, MPs to show them that we are not taken in by all this rubbish. Engage people in conversations by asking them what they think of the situation. You will be surprised by how many want to say what they really think. They just need to be given the opportunity.

For many of the silent majority, the polling booth is the only place that they can express what they really think- look at Brexit, the European elections and the 2019 election. That seems a long time away, I know, but it will come and we will have our voice. If we stay silent now, we may be silenced forever.

73568 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Margaret, #824 of 1304 🔗

Yes we are, and we do, at least I hope so. But I’m not sure I agree with your point about silent majority and polling booths. The people who vote tend to be the more engaged surely, not the silent majority?

73728 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to bluemoon, #825 of 1304 🔗

Yes, but look at the results. Most of them were totally unexpected because people didn’t dare say they were voting to leave the EU, for the Brexit party or for the Tories but once inside the polling booth…………

73421 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Margaret, 6, #826 of 1304 🔗

We know that they are putting us under such enormous mental pressure, so much so, that they are actually hoping that this whole lockdown thing falls apart because we can’t take any more. Then it will be our fault, not theirs.

Yes, in one of my lowest moments yesterday, this idea popped into my head, too. I was thinking that they’re hoping that we rebel, force a general election or some other mechanism to get the responsibility off their shoulders. They can say they tried, but we messed it up. But what a dangerous game to play. That’s civil war territory.

The government is creating a situation where neighbour will turn on neighbour. We are already seeing shoppers being encouraged to “shame” people without masks, and apparently a new thing is mask vigilantes violently attacking maskless people, even when outside.

73425 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #827 of 1304 🔗

Is this violence only a few cases in america though? If it is here (uk) please provide evidence.

73428 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #828 of 1304 🔗

yeah, no scare mongering please

73496 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #829 of 1304 🔗

It’s started in America I believe (article in Spiked), like BLM. Does that mean we don’t have to worry?

73435 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #830 of 1304 🔗

How about some simple, downloadable, foldable leaflets setting out a few simple truths about Covid and face nappies?Left in useful locations?

73461 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to annie, #831 of 1304 🔗

Guerilla tactics? The kind that have been successful in so many recent conflicts?

73505 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #832 of 1304 🔗

It was pointed out on a comment that class is coming into the “shame” and “adherence” effect. Asda and Lidl don’t appear to have the same level of righteousness as Waitrose. Which means Asda and Lidl will most probably fair better.

73433 ▶▶ annie, replying to Margaret, 2, #833 of 1304 🔗

Help them out of office, help them into a loony bin, drive a stake through their hearts and help them out of our misery, or all three, I don’t mind.

73443 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to Margaret, 1, #834 of 1304 🔗

“We know that they are putting us under such enormous mental pressure, so much so, that they are actually hoping that this whole lockdown thing falls apart because we can’t take any more. Then it will be our fault, not theirs.”

An excellent analysis. It makes more sense to me than many of the theories that this is planned, although some are clearly using the situation to push their agenda/cranky obsession.

Johnson panicked and lost his head; take some dim remembrance of
“If you can keep your head when all around are loosing theirs”
coupled with a desire to save face and keep hold of power and the above follows. Obviously he cares nothing for the disastrous consequences we will all suffer.

73667 ▶▶ xplod, replying to Margaret, #835 of 1304 🔗

Hope you don’t mind, I’ve “borrowed” this and put it up on my FB timeline – I have a number of bedwetters to try and convince!

73688 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Margaret, 1, #836 of 1304 🔗

I should have added this:
We know they don’t really expect us to wear masks otherwise they wouldn’t have given us so many “get out of jail free” cards and even given us cards to print out so we can self exempt without having to say why or to prove anything.

73804 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, #837 of 1304 🔗

I think they’ve only done that in order to prevent themselves being sued by anyone who suffers side effects or worse from mask-wearing. It will be blamed on the person him/herself for not availing him/herself of the ‘reasonable excuse’ get out-clause…

73986 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Carrie, #838 of 1304 🔗

Maybe, Carrie. I am still waiting for my MP to get back to the Department of Transport re their original response. No mention at all of a health and safety assessment which I had asked for.

73422 Ethelred the Unready, replying to Ethelred the Unready, 7, #839 of 1304 🔗

Julie Birchill good in today’s Telegraph, I like the idea of a subversive counter group called the ‘Bare Faces’ 😁

73489 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Ethelred the Unready, #841 of 1304 🔗

“government-licensed gimps”

73427 Ethelred the Unready, 4, #842 of 1304 🔗

The expression ‘a bare faced lie’ will from today be re-branded ‘a Bare Faced truth’

73429 A Meshiea, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #843 of 1304 🔗

We should be days away from a Michigan court case between the AAPS a body representing Americain physicians vs the FDA to lift the sanction against HCQ. Presently defence is being slow to respond.
This could be huge as it would negate the need for a vaccine and pretty much turn this fake pandemic into an obvious political farce.
However, as wife points out, the lockdown establishment will just bury this, appeal or find another way to kill this.
(She’s so pessimistic!)

The latest ruling:

The website for these brave Doctors (actual heroes not the media manufactured ones).


73534 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #844 of 1304 🔗

The vaccines are covered by an EUA emergency authorisation and that cannot be issued if there is an alternative treatment.This explains everything.Project fear.EUA. To have that in place Big Pharma need to repress everything else in cheap treatment and possibly prophylaxis as HCQ. The whole things fit together. The whole pandemic response team in the US is controled by Big Pharma,this is not a conspiracy theory. The media favourite Dr Fauci has never commented that influenza kills 5-10 times more children than covid-19.That information is not a part of project fear. Therfore his sudden enthusiasm for face masks.Facemasks is the best advertisment for vaccines. Earlier times you had people walking around with advertsment boards.Now the majority of the population is doing this volountarily. Cheapest advertisment in world history.

73538 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 2, #845 of 1304 🔗

Exactly – I posted a link here last night to someone who had tweeted this. They have to ‘rubbish’ HCQ or else they can’t circumvent vaccination rules.

73672 ▶▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Carrie, 5, #846 of 1304 🔗

Very quickly you could see something sinister in Fauci’s response in the pandemic. Remember the awful pandemic in New York with high death rate? You would think any responsible person in charge of the pandemic would have had a balanced approach. Both trying to mitigate the pandemic with social distancing advice and also consoling the shell-shocked population locked in with their children with objective evidence that this pandemic did not affect the children. Not Dr Fauci. Never mentioning the mild disease in children and instead scaring the population with Kawasaki’s disease in some children. From that time on you should realize that this person was not a public health specialist in the broad sense. Add then that during his sponsorship dangerous lab work on coronavirus was outsourced to China. Probably the most dangerous person ever in charge of a pandemic response especially due to his world-wide influence.

73437 JohnB, 16, #847 of 1304 🔗

This is the whole b*llshit of “following the science” summed up in one statement:

“The planned reopening of some businesses in the leisure and beauty sectors was delayed due to fears that the prevalence of coronavirus was rising for the first time since May.”

If the Government truly was following “The Science” then the word “ fears ” should be replaced with “ evidence “.

The only science they are following is the science of Mind Control.

73438 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 8, #848 of 1304 🔗

Meanwhile in the southern hemisphere the state of Victoria has overnight introduced a Chinese style lockdown with curfews and restrictions on liberty which are uninmaginable. This is only possible because the Premier of Victoria Dan Andrews is a socialist and therefore a media darling. The media tolerate no opposing views. You need to be masked up everywhere. This is East Germany on steroids.


73447 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #849 of 1304 🔗

Deeper still, and deeper…..

73451 ▶▶ BANASTRE TARLETON, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #850 of 1304 🔗

Ruining the Australian economy over less than two hundred deaths ; this shows clearly how the Nanny State is the endgame for Western Civ

73459 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Peter Thompson, 7, #851 of 1304 🔗

Australia is now a victim of its own “success” and severity of its first lockdown and rigid quarantine of travel into the giant island.
They have zero herd immunity (beyond the baseline) and they never had a cull of their sickly and aged.
They are in for it. Endless cycles of panic driven lockdowns.

73596 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to A Meshiea, #852 of 1304 🔗

Same for Germany.

73627 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to A Meshiea, 1, #853 of 1304 🔗

The point is it’s not Australia, just Victoria. The Australian government has made very few decisions at all, most months ago and all wrong, the worst being letting the state premiers do whatever they please – hence Victoria. Victoria will certainly be better off on the long run as far as immunity is concerned, unlike New Zealand and probably the rest of Australia unless it manages to spread, but the increasing severity of lockdown just prolongs it, if not makes it worse.
This really has got to be the spark that lights the powder keg (Victorians are on average the most woke, and thus compliant, in Australia, voting for Labour or Greens in ridiculous numbers, though it used to be that it was the jewel in the Liberal party crown), though short of welding people into their homes I can’t see what else Andrews can do if it still doesn’t ‘improve’ to whatever unrealistic status he wants it to. So what then can he do if people finally protest – if as I suspect, he announces tomorrow that construction and trades work can no longer take place either, he’ll have pissed off the unions – very dangerous for Labour to do…

73465 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Peter Thompson, 4, #854 of 1304 🔗

The more lockdown I’d demonstrated to fail the more they lockdown. Australian’s reputation as bolshy, Independent minded freedom lovers is clearly rubbish.

73649 ▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #855 of 1304 🔗

Australia’s a colonially-minded (parochial I mean) dump, pure and simple, with few redeeming qualities.

73699 ▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to DoesDimSyniad, 1, #856 of 1304 🔗

To whoever the downvoter is, you should know I say that as an Australian – I loathe the place and I’m stuck until that fuckwit Daniel Andrews finally finds a brain cell or two – if I don’t top myself before then that is.

73474 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #857 of 1304 🔗

It’s not looking good for them. This strategy of keeping Covid out of your country completely, indefinitely, if you were late to the party as AU and NZ were is maybe worth a shot in principle.

But the problem is it’s a long shot and as soon as you “fail”, and it looks like AU already has, the sooner you admit defeat and bail out into a herd-immunity with mitigation strategy the better. But it’s politically impossible to do that.

73503 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 4, #858 of 1304 🔗

There’s a chance Australia could end up serving as the ultimate cautionary tale. We need to be able to show they ended up suffering as many cv deaths as they would have without lockdown, plus the lockdown costs.

Mind you, the UK already is that cautionary tale, but the panickers just ignore it and carry on panicking.

73518 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 2, #859 of 1304 🔗

It’s going to be very interesting to see what happens. This will be a test of whether what the UK is pretending to do is actually possible.

I estimate that at 300 dead they have about 3 million exposed already, and that they’re just hitting the period of most rapid growth in their epidemic. In two or three months they will have a few thousand dead if they do well, or about 10,000 or 20,000 if they do less well (poor treatments, nosocomial outbreaks).

If they can really stamp it back down at this point I will be very impressed and will stop going around telling everyone this is impossible, which right now I believe it is.

73532 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to guy153, #860 of 1304 🔗

Here’s what my crude SIR spits out for 25m population. Days from patient 0 on x, deaths on y. Look at where 300 is on the y-axis. This is where it kicks off.

73533 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to guy153, #861 of 1304 🔗

Will be interesting to see what happens then. Their seasons are the opposite to ours, so it is somewhat logical that the virus would surge now..

73539 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, #862 of 1304 🔗

Good stuff! Definitely one to watch.

73536 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to guy153, 1, #863 of 1304 🔗

Flaring up in Japan too

73663 ▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to guy153, #864 of 1304 🔗

It is unlikely that there will be more than a few thousand Australia-wide at most, as that is the number of deaths from a severe flu, and it would seem nowhere has had more deaths than from a severe flu – 10,000 to 20,000 in Australia from it sounds almost Ferguson-level ridiculous. There doesn’t seem to be any doctoring of death figures in Australia either, unlike in the UK or USA (not that it couldn’t occur in the future though).

73665 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to guy153, #865 of 1304 🔗

It won’t be allowed to happen. As soon as the numbers get too high (whatever level they decide that is) they will ramp up the restrictions, presumably going as far as locking people up in their homes indefinitely.

73673 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Nobody2020, #866 of 1304 🔗

That’s just what’s happened today in Melbourne, except that there is a supposed end-date in September, but they didn’t bother going all the way through the previous 6 weeks of Stage 3 restrictions to the end of August before panicking again and going to Stage 4.

73511 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to guy153, #867 of 1304 🔗


Perhaps this would happen as in Armenia,abandoning a ruinous lockdown goes up and then down.This can’t be herdimmunity at 60%

73521 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to swedenborg, #868 of 1304 🔗

It’s not herd immunity at 60% serology but it’s probably herd immunity at about 50% or so immunity (where a chunk of that comes from cross-immunity and innate immunity).

Of course the exact threshold also depends on the spread, and I believe transmission can be reduced significantly by relatively non-intrusive mitigations (hand-washing, etc.) that people will be doing anyway.

73608 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to guy153, 3, #869 of 1304 🔗

Even if you succeed initially, like NZ clearly did, you are a) still at risk b) need an effective! vaccine to eliminate that risk.
If b) doesn’t come to fruition, you can either force your people to continue to live like the Sentinelese for good, or will have to take it on the chin in one go later.

The immune system of your people will also likely deteriorate, in both cases, and you face the same issues in case of any upcoming viruses, to whom your people are more susceptible.

I’d pass on trying elimination.

73657 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #870 of 1304 🔗

It’s not just that elimination is difficult it’s that it’s not necessary for this particular virus. I would understand strict measures for something far more deadly but not for this.

73652 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Peter Thompson, #871 of 1304 🔗

Extrimism exists in many forms. The most successful usually claim they’re doing good.

73448 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 6, #873 of 1304 🔗

Does anyone know, or can they point me at, the specific up to date legislation for GP practices and the NHS, as per the Corona Virus Act? I can find this, but I want to know what’s recommendation and what’s law? https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/03/C0569-Second-phase-of-General-Practice-response-to-COVID-19–update-to-GP-contracts-and-income-protection-a.pdf

I’ve also read this, but am unsure how it applies to GP practices? http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/risk-assessments-an-important-chink-in-the-lockdown-armour/

Given our overlords are talking about locking up the elderly again, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/01/elderly-may-asked-stay-home-ministers-blueprint-avoid-new-lockdown/

My dad’s dementia has gone off a ski jump under lockdown, he’s gone from a fit, active, social 85 year old, to incredibly forgetful, anxious and lacking in confidence. His Gp was already disinterested, and so I got him an apt with a Harley St specialist who did a phone conference with me and my dad, he was fantastic and wrote to his GP to ask with help getting some tests and drugs organised. The GP won’t see him, only talk to him by phone.

I want to know what risk assessments, equality impact assessments and what bits of PSED GPs are still obliged to adhere to, as I’m going to send a letter asking them to tell me precisely on what basis they have withdrawn care from all their patients (I’d imagine if you are learning disabled, mentally ill, or very old, or showing funny symptoms that only a GP would spot in person, rather than relying on the patient to self report verbally then accessing care by Zoom might be a bit tricky, lots must be missed by phone).

I’m in Shropshire, where cases are incredibly low, as are deaths, it seems a bit heavy handed that they’ve mothballed an entire 20 GP practice, and nobody can see a doctor?


73460 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to BecJT, 6, #874 of 1304 🔗

I am so sorry your family are in this situation. My own father at 90 has suffered shocking cognitive and verbal reasoning decline since March thanks to the enforced isolation and I know many people reporting the same in elderly relatives. I’ve never been much impressed with quality of GPs. With the internet and taking the time to listen to people I have a better track record of diagnosing family ailments than our GP. GPs are mainly just very highly paid gatekeepers for access to prescription meds and the real expertise of specialists.

73470 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 3, #875 of 1304 🔗

I’m hearing the same tale in lots of places, some who had to begin with no sign of cognitive impairment at all. This Harley St bod, very highly recommended, thinks a large part of it is a decline in testosterone, and wants it tested, and then my dad to supplement T, having looked at this, it would fit with lots of his encroaching symptoms. He’s also asked the GP to organise tests.

I’m going to insist I’m in that phone consult next week, as I know what their game is, to dismiss and undo lots of the specialists recommendations.

Obviously added to the forced isolation and removal of everything that makes life worth living, he’s got much worse.

However, from what I’m reading, I think a lot of these rules aren’t rules at all, they are recommendations, and the law or fiction link I shared above, if it applies to GPs, is probably the clincher.

Plus it’s massively discriminatory, and I think falls foul of public sector equality duty.

I only ever see my GP if I absolutely have to, everything else I now do privately, given my own health trials, apart from acute and emergency medicine (UK probably has some of the best trauma medicine in the world, and those doctors actually are heroes) I seriously wouldn’t mind if the NHS burned to the ground, it has complete contempt for its own patients.

73495 ▶▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to BecJT, #876 of 1304 🔗


Without being too detailed what kind of diet is your dad on? You may want to try going on a lower carb higher protein diet if he’s not already on one. My mum has MS and it helped with her a lot. Also Dad was Type 2 diabetic but is not anymore having upped his protein and lowered carbs.

It may not be effective but it’s an easy try.

73513 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to mhcp, #877 of 1304 🔗

Yes the doctor already has recommended that, his HbA1c is a little on the high normal side. Thanks.

73497 ▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to BecJT, 3, #878 of 1304 🔗

The NHS: The Negligent Health Service.
Theres a cold dark place in hell for these people.
At least I truly pray there is…

73501 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to A Meshiea, 2, #879 of 1304 🔗

Why not a very, very hot one?

73759 ▶▶▶▶▶ Adam, replying to A Meshiea, 1, #880 of 1304 🔗

Or maybe ‘The Notional Health Service’?

73535 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, #881 of 1304 🔗

OK so the Act was revoked and a new act was brought in on 3rd July https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/684/introduction/made

This is also helpful http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/lockdown-laws-in-england-have-been-revoked/

Still can’t figure out what GPs are obliged to follow though.

73620 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, 1, #882 of 1304 🔗

And I’d love to know if this is revoked, the original act indemnified GPs against medical negligence!!! “ The Act includes powers to provide indemnity coverage for clinical negligence of health care workers and others carrying out NHS and health and social care activities connected to care, treatment or diagnostic services provided under the arrangements for responding to the Covid-19 pandemic.”

If that’s revoked then we’re in business.

73449 TheBluePill, replying to TheBluePill, 19, #883 of 1304 🔗

Disgusting BBC. Just turned on Breakfast to see them doing a piece on three women who claim covid is fucking them up after 4 months. Total claptrap. No specific symptoms discussed, just a vague feeling unwell. I’d wager that what they actually want is an excuse not to go back to work.

Now there is an epidemiologist on, complaining about ringing ears, can only run a couple of kilometers etc. In his late 50s. How about it is because you were stuck in your house locked down with no excercise (thanks to scaremongering from people like you) and you have lost your fitness.

TV being turned of for safety now, otherwise covid is going to get me by causing annuerism due to extreme blood pressure.

73457 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to TheBluePill, 18, #884 of 1304 🔗

I’ve noticed this too, we’ve gone from deaths, to cases, to now lingering terrible symptoms. I can only imagine none of these people have ever had the flu. There is no ‘just’ about the flu, as in ‘it’s just the flu’, flu is a terrible illness. I had three winters in a row with really terrible flu, one I’m fairly sure was H1N1, and I honestly feared I was going to die. As my GP said to me at the time, ‘if you are not lying in bed fearing for your life, considering dialling 999, it’s not the flu’.

And when I say fearing I was going to die, I’ve never felt so hot, or so cold, multiple sheet changes, shivers to the point of teeth rattling, incredible joint paint, delerium, and having to go to the bathroom on my hands and knees I was so week and woozy, absolutely awful. For weeks afterwards, I couldn’t even walk to the corner shop for more soup, without resting and hanging onto people’s garden fences, and I’d be soaked in sweat, with legs like a rubber chicken.

I was off work for a month each time, and sick for months afterwards, fatigue, weakness, aches, sweats, and lo, according to my specialist now, it triggered two autoimmune diseases and now Mast Cell Over Activation (MCAS), which is an issue with over active mast cells and inflammatory cytokines. This means my body has an allergic reaction to itself, and I’m flooded with histamine, I would not wish this on my worst enemy.

Nobody shut down the country for me, or the thousands of people like me, and nor would I expect them to.

73463 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to TheBluePill, 7, #885 of 1304 🔗

How can you watch the BBC?
We got rid of our licence 2 months ago and never looked back.

73464 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #886 of 1304 🔗

What precisely are the rules with a TV licence, can you have any free to air telly at all? I’m thinking of doing this. Ta.

73468 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to BecJT, 4, #887 of 1304 🔗

Got rid of mine (just waiting for my refund!). I think it’s just the BBC iplayer that you cannot access. Win win as far as I am concerned. Been avoiding all radio also, just watching DVDs and listening to music. Although I’m still as mad as hell at this dystopian nightmare, at least I’m not made more anxious by the propaganda onslaught.

73486 ▶▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to kh1485, #888 of 1304 🔗

We just got our refund.
You can’t, as others have said, watch live tv channels like sky channel 4 etc.
Streaming channels like Netflix and Amazon are fine.
not sure about using recordings, but I think recording live tv may also count as live tv.
but the fact is it would be hard to prove.

73499 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to A Meshiea, 1, #889 of 1304 🔗

Yeah, I was just meaning that you can watch any catch-up tv with the exception of the BBC (but then, why would you want to watch anything on the BBC anyway, it’s a load of preachy rubbish).

How long did your refund take? It’s about six weeks since I cancelled my licence. Of course, they are blaming COVID for the delay!

73507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to kh1485, 2, #890 of 1304 🔗

Huh, it took 6 weeks.
Yes the current version of “computer says no” is
“Were sorry but it’s because of “the situation.”“
That and “stay safe” make me want to smack people.

73515 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to A Meshiea, 1, #891 of 1304 🔗

Thanks. I suppose we have to be grateful that it is backdated (well, at least that’s what their functionary told me when I called to complain!).

73469 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to BecJT, #892 of 1304 🔗

You cannot watch ANY live TV.

73472 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to BecJT, #893 of 1304 🔗

you must have a tv licence if you watch any BBC output anytime or any live tv . So if you dont watch BBC at all and only ever watch catch up you dont need a licence

73476 ▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to mjr, 1, #894 of 1304 🔗

and if you get a firestick with a free Amazon account and then install the appropriate Downloader and Cinema apps you can pick up films and tv programmes from sky, amazon. netflix without subscription …….. or so i have heard …..

73482 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to mjr, #895 of 1304 🔗

Yes but that is actually fraud. I don’t mind paying someone to watch their content. I’m not so keen on paying the BBC to not watch their content however…

73514 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to guy153, 1, #896 of 1304 🔗

not fraud … might be intellectual property theft . !!

73621 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to mjr, #897 of 1304 🔗

I’m not an expert 🙂 Either way it’s “wrong in my book” 🙂

73473 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to BecJT, 2, #898 of 1304 🔗

You need a TV licence if you do either of the following:
a) use BBC iPlayer
b) watch live TV on ANY channel

If you dont do those you can cancel. Also fill in a licence not required form.
Some people say they get the odd threatening letter from TV licensing which can be binned. If an enforcement officer eventually comes you only have to say you dont do a) or b) and therefore dont need a license. That is all you should say.

73480 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to BecJT, 2, #899 of 1304 🔗

You can’t watch _any_ broadcast TV on any channel without a license. But all the streaming and catch up services are allowed (except obviously the BBC ones but there’s nothing you’d want to watch on there anyway).

I’m told that if the BBC ever do make a decent program they sell it to Netflix anyway so you can just watch it on there. But I can’t remember the last time they made a decent program and don’t have Netflix so can’t personally confirm this.

73475 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to A Meshiea, #900 of 1304 🔗

I’ve started looking into cancelling the license. If it was as simple as not watching BBC and C4 then I would do it. However I think it means no broadcast TV at all.

It is quite useful to check in on the BBC to see what the enemy is up to. They realise that at some point the sheople who personally know no serious covid victims will talk to their friends and discover that none of their friends know anyone either. So now the focus needs to shift from the “huge” infections number to how this will likely wreck your life if you get it. Honestly they seem to be treating it like you are catching MS.

73492 ▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to TheBluePill, #901 of 1304 🔗

You are correct on no broadcast tv.
i did rationalise my occasional peeks into question time panorama or the bbc news to see how the drones portray new information about the pathetic excuse for a pandemic, but I couldn’t stomach it.
Way too much propaganda and patronising.
Not to mention the never ending worship of the NHS.
Actually I’m getting myself sick just thinking about it!

73485 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to A Meshiea, 1, #902 of 1304 🔗

”How can you watch the BBC?”

know you enemy – there is a reason why the majority of our population is irrationally shit scared

73516 ▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Major Panic, #903 of 1304 🔗

I already know them and they’re mindless drones or irrational obedient morons.
Its like watching Big Brother or Britain’s Got Talent…I already know there is a huge swathe of people that don’t have any critical faculties, do I need to watch them not using them?

73467 ▶▶ mjr, replying to TheBluePill, 3, #904 of 1304 🔗

yesterday all channels were featuring those “shielded” people who as at yesterday were allowed to come out from behind the sofa. And how they were still vulnerable . However it came over as a clear propaganda about how people who were not following the guidelines (distancing and masks) were basically out to kill them.
Also listened to yesterdays “Any answers” on radio 4. Saddening the comments people were making .. except one old guy who was shielded who basically said sod the masks lets get back to normal.

73478 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to TheBluePill, 8, #905 of 1304 🔗

Post viral syndromes are a well known and natural phenomenon. It would be much odder if people who had had significant symptoms were returned immediately to their former state of health. So once again the BBC is scaremongering.

73689 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to TheBluePill, 1, #906 of 1304 🔗

Last year ,during the winter-2018-2019- my younger sister, who is a director in a large City of London institution, developed severe viral pneumonia which laid her low for weeks on end.

Before this took hold, she’d suffered from a series of minor infections, but the pneumonia resulted in significant post viral fatigue.

Needless to say, absolutely no hysteria ensued, and neither she nor my brother-in-law hid under the bed.

As she only has one kidney,she had to be particularly careful, but thankfully made a full recovery.

Both are now working from home.

This leads me to suggest that since these viral infections appear every year,with varying severity-see BecJT’s comment below- why O why have we now gone into a hysterical meltdown with no obvious means of escape?

Another point: a friend here who suffered from ME for many years has been advised never to have the yearly flu vaccine; since post viral covid fatigue is now doing the rounds, what will the advice be as to the suitability of any vaccine?

Vaccines are now being toted as the magic bullet, whereas the flu vaccine is not recommended for all.

Finally, when my friend developed ME, it was still dismissed as a neurotic,all-in-the-mind syndrome, whereas now, with the advent of calamitous covid, it is widely acknowledged and accepted.

73452 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 23, #907 of 1304 🔗

“Millions of over 50s could be told to stay at home” (Mail). You have been warned. The Madness of King Boris continues…

73454 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bugle, 3, #908 of 1304 🔗

Bozo the Clown in the ring again!

73504 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Bugle, 7, #909 of 1304 🔗

The answer is no. Not going back into lockdown.

73528 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bugle, 3, #910 of 1304 🔗

50 is not even ‘old’ !!! Majority of people who have died have been at least 20 years older than that!

Note: Boris is 56. A lot of MPs are in their 50s are older – but you can bet that the whole lot of them will be exempt from staying at home…
How old are Cummings, Whitty and Vallance by the way?

73543 ▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Carrie, 4, #911 of 1304 🔗

To the young people spouting this nonsense, 50 IS old! But I’m more than 20 years older than that and I haven’t died!

73570 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to bluemoon, 3, #912 of 1304 🔗

Haha – I am 56 myself and I do not feel ‘old’ at all !!!

73600 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, 3, #913 of 1304 🔗

I’m 60, but I really don’t look it. Can I be excused?

73636 ▶▶ Graham, replying to Bugle, 6, #914 of 1304 🔗

This is a step too far. I am 63. I will ignore the rule if it comes. I am already ignoring all masking rules, so far with no difficulty. We are now under enemy occupation and it is our duty to resist.

73796 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Graham, 1, #915 of 1304 🔗

If this becomes law/guideline, then I think we should bombard the comments of all newspapers with a list of the names and ages of every MP who is over 50. Woe betide any who are seen and photographed outside their homes…! It will be the like Cummings Barnard Castle outing all over again, but with bigger numbers of people involved!
We could actually start making the list now…

73677 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Bugle, 3, #916 of 1304 🔗

Logan’s run….

73692 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Bugle, 2, #917 of 1304 🔗

I’m pretty ancient and I will not be placed under house arrest! I’ve been going out as normally as present circumstances allow since all this nonsense started.

73767 ▶▶ Paul, replying to Bugle, 1, #918 of 1304 🔗

I’m in my fifties and feel almost as fit as when I was twenty.This idea is nauseating,once again singling out a certain section of society to potential abuse and hassle from others,there is enough lack of respect for older people in this bloody wreck of a country as it is.

73455 BANASTRE TARLETON, replying to BANASTRE TARLETON, 8, #919 of 1304 🔗

The obsession with SAFETY-ISM and the inability to accept a certain amount of risk is symptomatic of decadence , the result of peace, prosperity and the femini-sation of society ; we have becaim the E:LOI from H G Wells’s novel ”THE TIME MACHINE @

73498 ▶▶ annie, replying to BANASTRE TARLETON, 10, #920 of 1304 🔗

Hey, don’t blame up women, men are just as good at bedwetting and nappy wearing. Boo.

73569 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to BANASTRE TARLETON, #921 of 1304 🔗

Someone wrote a great essay just on the topic when this whole idiocy started: https://risk-monger.com/2020/03/08/docilian-dreams-and-the-covid-19-nightmare/

73466 IanE, 9, #922 of 1304 🔗

Peter Hitchens on form again. Here is a link to his blog spot, which avoids all the irritating videos and drop-downs at the equivalent Daily Mail site.


73471 Bugle, replying to Bugle, 10, #923 of 1304 🔗

It’s above in Toby’s Round-Up: “Belarus President unwilling to accept additional terms to get foreign loans.” Do you suppose Belarus is the only country in the world to be ‘encouraged’ to apply quarantine, isolation and curfew measures? I mean, it could happen here! Government runs the economy onto a rock, massive deficits, needs to borrow money from precisely the people who want a reset. Anyone noticed that face masks are an international policy?

“The borrower is servant to the lender.”

73477 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bugle, 3, #924 of 1304 🔗

Yes – and what I should like to know is just what is the endgame? I’m pretty sure it won’t be pleasant.

73479 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to IanE, 2, #925 of 1304 🔗

It sounds cliche but global government and a new global electronic currency. Along with all the maximal controls over free movement, free exchange and private property.

73502 ▶▶▶▶ IanE, replying to A Meshiea, 2, #926 of 1304 🔗

Well, that is one possibility, but I find it hard to believe that that is sufficient for the depths of depravity attained now by most governments round the world – and how on earth could such uniformity of approach be arranged or coordinated among such disparate groups of politicians?

It is, just, plausible, but I don’t find it compelling.

73526 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to IanE, #927 of 1304 🔗
73537 ▶▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to IanE, 1, #928 of 1304 🔗

Sure I get that.
But ask yourself what you (or perhaps someone with desires to control things) would do if they knew that the global financial system was teetering on the brink of destruction because of an unsustainable debt mountain and you had many friends who knew this and wanted to prevent the very nasty sociopolitical effects that this would have on the stability of national and international authority. You know like, 1930 s depression level economic catastrophe that sees mass unemployment, starvation and you know, wars and revolts.
You May think the best thing for the world would be to make sure these violent reactions are controlled and limited.
you would believe that the cost to freedoms would be worth it for the greater good.
If you could have that much influence, would you not work as hard as possible to implement it?
Ok maybe you or I would find that morally repugnant but it’s the scale of the upcoming disaster that makes these people think it’s ok to lie and control us, the masses.
Agenda 2021 is there.

73558 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Bugle, #929 of 1304 🔗

Where do we think all the magic furlough money has come from?

73564 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Mr Dee, #930 of 1304 🔗

Didn’t they print a ton of Treasury Stock?

73483 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #931 of 1304 🔗

Clinical trial at Yale University on-going to study how to get people to accept a vaccine:


73525 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #932 of 1304 🔗

Sinister…. we need to spread this information widely. People need to see *now* how they are going to be manipulated, so that they can spot the techniques in the messaging as they are used..

73565 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #933 of 1304 🔗

2/15 of the sample will be assigned to the pure control group, which is a passage on the costs and benefits of bird feeding.’

They must think people are stupid!!!

I am worried about the two ‘control’ arms of the strategy…

73484 Peter Thompson, replying to Peter Thompson, 10, #934 of 1304 🔗

The mask movement has been a very sinister aspect of the whole pantomine. Some questions certainly need to be answered . Who finances this outfit ? ( They claim they are volunteers but lobbying and influencing needs money ). There is clearly a political aspect to this as seeing people all around you in masks heightens the fear.


73490 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Peter Thompson, 6, #935 of 1304 🔗

Researched it weeks ago, lots of data by various people put on here at the time.

It’s financed by the same people who finance Extreme Rebellion.

73494 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Peter Thompson, 1, #936 of 1304 🔗

They appear to be a group of Czech ‘scientists’ and ‘entrepreneurs’.

73787 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #937 of 1304 🔗

Anyone know if the results of the Danish mask study are out yet?

73519 ▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #938 of 1304 🔗

The founder, Jeremy Howard is described as “ Member of the World Economic Forum’s Global AI Council”.
Nothing to see here then.

73605 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Peter Thompson, 3, #939 of 1304 🔗

It’s a misinformation outfit for sure.
They publish a dodgy article that shows spray droplets of spit filmed on camera from people saying words.
then they compare that to someone wearing a paper mask.
This visual becomes the basis for masker “research” on bibliographies to show there is scientific evidence for wearing masks.
They learned this pseudoscience from the postmodernists gender politics people in academia.
yiu publish something that sounds scientific and is based on very shaky conjecture then other equally moronic people use your article as reference grist for their dodgy article.
Hey presto, it MUST be true, look at that fancy bibliography!
its shady and unethical and it’s part of our post truth world.

73488 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 3, #940 of 1304 🔗

Good summary of liability waver on the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine – comments worth a read too:


73546 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 6, #941 of 1304 🔗

Cut and paste of one comment:
Did you know?

In France, hydroxychloroquine has been available, without prescription, for decades.

In January of this year, 2020, they changed course & made it illegal, citing it as a poisonous substance.


Coincidentally, in the most important election year of our lives.

73562 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #942 of 1304 🔗

Exactly – why make it illegal in January otherwise, ie before all this started?

73591 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Basics, 1, #943 of 1304 🔗

If true, this smells indeed.
I thought it was only banned after the fake Lancet article?

73609 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Basics, 2, #944 of 1304 🔗

If that’s true…

73647 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Basics, 3, #945 of 1304 🔗

previously available OTC for many years (at around €3 a packet of 30 tabs) it was made prescription only here in France on 15 January (exactly 7 days before the first case was ‘discovered’).
However, all the stocks were apparently removed from pharmacies by the government – causing a major worry for people taking it regularly for chronic diseases.

73676 ▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Alec in France, 3, #946 of 1304 🔗

Lord help us. So my conspiracy feelings are conspiracy fact?!

73923 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A Meshiea, #947 of 1304 🔗


73633 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #948 of 1304 🔗

Another comment that caught my eye:

You cannot change someone’s internal, subconscious belief with rationality. How did they come by these beliefs? Though decades of hypnotic, propaganda programming.

73506 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #949 of 1304 🔗

A thought just occured to me. I’m not convinced by it, is this a manipulation too far?

The whitty trade off – pubs & restaurants may close for schools to open. Might this be a way of getting people out now to pubs & restaurants before they close again?

It’s very crude and hugely stressful for the pubs & restaurant businesses with looming closure. It’s wreckless of Whitty to mention in sure careless manner. Could it have been a behavioural plan?

Not completely convinced of my own thought. Never-the-less it is a possibility and I will be listening for disproving/proving evidence as this progresses.

73520 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 12, #950 of 1304 🔗

I’ve believed for a long time that the pub is the last place you can meet face-to-face with people without being monitored and recorded and this is where you find out that other people are feeling just as frustrated, pissed off or otherwise angry the same as you which is why for years the screws have been tightening on pubs, licensing committee restrictions put on venues, CCTV on doors and so on.

Get rid of the pub and where else can you torment a revolution? Online? Standing on a street corner?

73523 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #951 of 1304 🔗


73524 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #952 of 1304 🔗

One of the reasons for not allowing pubs to be smoking or non smoking.

73560 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #953 of 1304 🔗

Absolutely agree. Low alcohol prices in supermarkets played a role to in the destruction of the pub. In days gone by the post office queue and the school gate were places for unmonitored discussion – the pub still has that function and they are afraid of it. Cross roads of civilisations. The covid measures can easily be seen as a way to break apart that free conversation – including pubs across the country closed down for opening without observing diktats.

73806 ▶▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Basics, 1, #954 of 1304 🔗

AFAIK, sonce the smoking bans and now encouraged bt the panicdemic, there is a real boom in small garage / garden sunroom type conversions
People can then just suit themselves, smoke drink and not socially distance as they see fit like the adults of yesteryear. (&more cheaply too)
I know of 4 home pubs in garages in my small town and apparently London is full of them.
Its what the bansterbators and maskholes always miss, if you make it too difficult people will always find alternative ways to do what they want.

73823 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #955 of 1304 🔗

Yes, as my mother often says ‘Necessity is the mother of invention’!

Where there’s a will, there’s a way 🙂

73522 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, 2, #956 of 1304 🔗

According to UK column way back in May, the ‘plan’ is for schools *never* to re-open… You wonder if all the stupid rules are to make parents so angry that they keep their kids home, so achieving the government’s aim for them?

73818 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Carrie, 2, #957 of 1304 🔗

buttered up the teachers with that pay rise

73883 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #958 of 1304 🔗

Nothing careless here. Nudge Unit in operation.

73512 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #959 of 1304 🔗

I’m going to mention him.

Next stage of the plan, troops on streets then I guess martial law: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8582461/Governments-scientific-advisers-warn-tension-local-lockdowns-need-military-presence.html

Exactly as David Icke has predicted in his problem-reaction-solutions scenarios over many years. Now let the bad comments and shouting down begin for mentioning his name but he has been uncannily correct (except for the shapeshifting lizard aliens) and getting more an more correct as time goes on.

SAGE paper was by Professors Cliff Stott and Mark Harrison.

If I have the right people:

Cliff Stott, at Keele University and a psychologist who specialises in policing so no conflict of interest there then:

https://www.keele.ac.uk/psychology/people/cliffordstott/ – he claims to “ achieved high-level international impact affecting policy and guidance on the policing of crowds of the European Council, the European Union as well as a range of police forces globally”

Mark Harrison, a historian specialising in Soviet Russian Economy and agrees with Boris that we are at war so again no conflict of interest.

https://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/markharrison/about/ – he claims “ My research is on Russian and international economic history; I am interested in economic aspects of bureaucracy, dictatorship, defence, and warfare.”

They are both that good he does not even have a wikipedia entry.

73540 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #960 of 1304 🔗

I have never laughed at Icke. One has to sift truth from sensationalism sometimes, but there’s never smoke without a fire.

73550 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #961 of 1304 🔗

Same here. Everything he spoke about back in February/April on his podcast feeds seems to be happening.

73559 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #962 of 1304 🔗

Where does Icke get his information, out of interest?

73684 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Carrie, 3, #963 of 1304 🔗

The aethyr.

That’s the problem – he’s crap at referencing his facts. I’m in the middle of reading one of his books (the first I’ve read) and there are no footnotes, or references. Frustrating. Quite a substantial bibliography though.

I can’t take anything he says at face value, but when I follow up with my research, if something he says piques my curiosity, it’s often based on sound data. Or it pans out at a later date.

73541 ▶▶ Andy C, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #964 of 1304 🔗

Until this year, I never realised that having a total lack of common sense could possibly manifest itself in being able to write such swivel-eyed nonsense. Having the army on the streets to police government policy? The men in white coats need to take themselves away in this case.

73594 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Andy C, 5, #965 of 1304 🔗

Highly unlikely. The Armed Forces are at their weakest than at any time in our history. Total personnel stand at fewer than 150,000 plus c. 37,000 reserves. That’s ALL the branches of the Armed Forces btw.

Most of these are already deployed to deal with commitments which are mostly overseas, there are not very many sat around in barracks twiddling their thumbs and waiting for something to do. All our warships put to sea undermanned and there is a serious personnel retention crisis.

As I’ve already pointed out, a force of 20,000 men failed to keep order in Northern Ireland during the Troubles in the 1970’s. There are one and a half million people in Northern Ireland. There are sixty-seven million people in the UK, which is 44 times larger. 20,000×44=880,000

So this is clearly not going to happen, no matter how many deluded scientists believe it is required.

73584 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #966 of 1304 🔗

They have a choice:
continue to follow their catastrophic AND poirly managed ‘suppression via the hammer/dance strategy until a vaccine’ approach, likely leading to unrest soon, or switch to the rational strategy of Sweden, plus early treatment with HCQ where required, which allows the people, businesses and country to live with the virus sensibly.

73619 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #967 of 1304 🔗

Unfortunately I think their ‘plan’ is to do everything necessary, however mad and illogical, to keep us under fear until they can force a vaccine on us. We know Boris is in cahoots with Bill Gates – as are Hancock, Whitty and Vallance..
(I’m guessing Jenny Harries isn’t, by the way, because she has not been included in any conferences for yonks now…)

Sadly I think they will not switch to a Sweden strategy..

73876 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #968 of 1304 🔗

If you’ve been watching carefully, you’ll see the government have told us what’s coming all along the way.

Even the Beeb informed us way back in March that 20,000 troops had been brought back to this country and were standing ready at the start of lockdown.

73527 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 19, #969 of 1304 🔗

I think its a good idea to produce a pamphlet (as mentioned below) stating some undeniable facts and we could go delivering these in our local town, rather than constantly asking,”what can we do?”

Fact – less than 300 healthy people in the UK have died from covid (stat may be out of date), that is SIX times less than the 1800 who die in road accidents each year

Fact – Sweden did not lockdown and have fewer covid deaths per million than the UK

Fact – Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, have not mandated masks because there is no real evidence that they have any effect

Fact – Sweden’s cases dwindling away most likely because of population immunity, Sweden’s scientist says public wearing masks are pointless

Fact the average age of people who have died with covid is over 80 and would likely have passed away in 2020 with the health problems they already had

Fact – many 10s of thousands of people have died or are likely to die as a result of lockdown closing our health facilities; not being screened for cancer, not being treated for heart problems, etc

Fact…. etc etc

If the facts are indisputable how can there be any comeback? Is telling the truth illegal?

we have to start somewhere!

73544 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Major Panic, 2, #970 of 1304 🔗

I’ll help. I can start now. How do we get in touch without delinquents and assorted ne’er-do-wells ambushing our inboxes?

73555 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, #971 of 1304 🔗

? they can’t ambush peoples letter boxes

writing a book on why things can’t be done would be a piece of piss – action involves getting on with it

73567 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Major Panic, 2, #972 of 1304 🔗

No, sorry – I mean what’s the best way to contact each other about this – I’m wary of putting out my contact details on a public forum.

73575 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, #973 of 1304 🔗

privately through Toby or someone he trusts (if he is willing)

73587 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Major Panic, 1, #974 of 1304 🔗

Ok, I’ve emailed Toby before with content for the news section. I’ll email him now and ask if he can pass my email to you? Can you do the same?

73593 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, #975 of 1304 🔗

I put you forward as the trusted person
oh yes will do
whats his email address?

73613 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Major Panic, #976 of 1304 🔗

If you could please email Toby asking for my e-mail address, hopefully he’ll send it to you, depending of course if he has the time to do so (I know he’s a busy man!)

73626 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, #977 of 1304 🔗

will do, whats his LS email address?

73651 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Major Panic, 1, #978 of 1304 🔗
73666 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, #979 of 1304 🔗


73727 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #980 of 1304 🔗

Mr Dee – I was thinking maybe heading something like ”covid facts”, make it look official, first three facts to be most eye catching to get interest to carry on reading – just my suggestions

let the facts do the talking, no inferring things or promoting theories

73844 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, #981 of 1304 🔗

Toby’s very busy, It’s too much to ask of him!

73749 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #982 of 1304 🔗

Via my site if u want. I’ll pass details to whoever wants.

73829 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Lockdown Truth, #983 of 1304 🔗


73848 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lockdown Truth, #984 of 1304 🔗

Thanks for offering.
LT, can you contact Toby and offer to do this for him please. Then it needs to be be made clear how to go about it without breaching any data protection laws.

73548 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Major Panic, #985 of 1304 🔗

Part 14 of “Against the Corona Panic” on https://hailtoyou.wordpress.com analyses the areas under those scary peaks on Worldometers and concludes that there wasn’t really much to get het up about. He divides countries into groups:

Group One . Countries that never exceeded the normal range for deaths (something peak-flu-events achieves almost every year). There are six . They are: Berlin , Denmark , Estonia , Greece , Hungary , Norway .
Group Two . Countries that did break out of the normal range but never exceed the Substantial Increase range. Four countries are here: Austria , Finland , Hesse (Germany), Malta .
Group Three . Countries that briefly exceed the Substantial Increase range (no more than three weeks). There four countries here: France , Ireland , Luxembourg , Portugal .
Group Four . Those that exceed the Substantial Increase threshold four at least four weeks. There are ten countries here, of which four are the constituent countries of the UK ( England , Wales , Scotland , Northern Ireland ) and the others are Belgium , Italy , Netherlands , Spain , Sweden , Switzerland .
While ten qualify on these technical grounds for Group Four, several were lightly affected, with excess-mortality either less than their own observed flu spike periods in the late 2010s or <1.5x as high. This leaves only Belgium , Italy , England (and next-door Wales , really an extension of England for these purposes), and Sweden as the countries on which the Coronavirus wave had a high impact. No-Lockdown Sweden happens to be the lightest-affected of this group, with the mildest spike in absolute terms.

It is a very long article but as Toby Young would say, worth reading in full.

73549 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, #986 of 1304 🔗

How much does it cost to get one of those giant TV screens that you can drive around to different places and show short clips on? In my experience people do usually stop and watch them..

73554 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, 2, #987 of 1304 🔗

keep it simple – deliver leaflets, people who are hiding behind their sofas won’t see our giant screen

73561 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Major Panic, 3, #988 of 1304 🔗

Leaflets are good. They can be handed out, left in suitable public places, etc. Remember the 2016 referendum. Ignore which side of the argument you were on…that’s not relevant here. Go out leafletting with the same intent and spirit. It just needs a few good well written documents.

73573 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to thedarkhorse, 3, #989 of 1304 🔗

brilliant – we need a good writer to write the most powerful facts, some one to fact check and reference the facts, someone to get leaflets printed (that’s the easy bit) and the rest of us to get off our arses and get delivering the old fashioned way – letterboxes

73582 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Major Panic, 2, #990 of 1304 🔗

I can design/produce the leaflets for free, if someone gives me bulletpoints for the contents. I’ll also happily deliver in my immediate area.

73585 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #991 of 1304 🔗

I will deliver in my area and pay up front for my 10000 leaflets

73757 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Major Panic, 2, #992 of 1304 🔗

I think the best point to make is to point out the number of cases in a town etc. My town hasn’t 20,000 people and looks like Colditz but there’s are between 0 and 4 cases in the whole town and statistically they will be asymptomatic or mild. If you made stickers with that fact about your area and stuck them on lampposts etc it might get people thinking

73761 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, #993 of 1304 🔗

*Has 20,000 people.
Has anyone else noticed their spellchecker reversing the meaning of sentences more than usual recently..? Or is it me?

73597 ▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #994 of 1304 🔗

Use Margaret’s excellent summary. With her permission of course. And Major Panic’s.

73604 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to bluemoon, #995 of 1304 🔗

great idea

73707 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to bluemoon, 1, #996 of 1304 🔗

Permission granted but Nick R’s most voted post is brilliant too.

73631 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Mr Dee, 3, #997 of 1304 🔗

can we put this somewhere, on the back maybe?

comment image

73641 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 1, #998 of 1304 🔗

Its a useful illustration however think carefully before publishing a ‘dating’ graphic. This graph will alter month on month – its possible the data becomes out of date and therefore the leaflet.

Hopefully a constructive comment.

73645 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, 1, #999 of 1304 🔗

makes sense – or could say ”correct at time of printing”

73856 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, #1000 of 1304 🔗

Second wave propaganda would negate that, unfortunately.

73656 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 2, #1001 of 1304 🔗

Could we print a link to Hector Drummond’s website, which is always up-to-date?

73686 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, #1002 of 1304 🔗

good idea

73721 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, #1003 of 1304 🔗

and maybe direct to some other sites like swiss doctor, LS, etc

73857 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1004 of 1304 🔗

Nothing on Drummond since July 17. He’s taking time off.

73658 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to thedarkhorse, #1005 of 1304 🔗

But what if the other side respond with “Warning: Don’t touch these Covid-infected leaflets!”?

73668 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Alec in France, 1, #1006 of 1304 🔗

what if the sky falls in?
they will already have the read the leaflets and not caught covid – so that could be helpful

73610 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Major Panic, 8, #1007 of 1304 🔗

Here’s another interesting fact, courtesy of a POI request made by Simon Dolan – no Met police officers have died of Covid – despite how many people they have met, their lack of social distancing (that we have witnessed) and lack of PPE : https://twitter.com/simondolan/status/1289831760877019136?cxt=HHwWgIC78eLJs-YjAAAA

73614 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Carrie, 2, #1008 of 1304 🔗

excellent – Is there a similar supermarket worker fact?

73643 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Major Panic, #1009 of 1304 🔗

Muzzles in shops was based on just 107 shop-worker deaths, nationally.

73650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Sam Vimes, -2, #1010 of 1304 🔗

I didn’t know – I may start wearing a nappy while shopping then

73695 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #1011 of 1304 🔗

I wont be wearing a nappy anytime soon, but the shop worker deaths maybe won’t make it on to our fact sheet

73654 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1012 of 1304 🔗

107 out of how many shop workers? There’s really no causation there.

73858 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to IMoz, #1013 of 1304 🔗

BBC fans won’t have enough remaining brainpower to realise that.

73743 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 2, #1014 of 1304 🔗

Police are true vectors. The kinds of interactions they have and the numbers of interactions. Astonishing that portly plod hasn’t had a desth or two – frontline clapped workers as they were.

73702 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Major Panic, 1, #1015 of 1304 🔗

Good idea Major. Perhaps add some perspective about big numbers: How many die in the world every year, how many die in the U.K. every day? What percentage of the world/U.K. population have tested positive/died from Covid-19? Most people don’t have enough sense of proportion to understand that this whole episode actually affects such a tiny percentage of the world compared with other diseases/disasters.

73786 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, #1016 of 1304 🔗

Those figures would be good to include, for comparison 🙂

73872 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, 1, #1017 of 1304 🔗

Any big numbers will probably make ther eyes (and brains) go blurry.

Yesterday, it was pointed out that people don’t get percentages and after Wankock’s recent magic with the stats for shopworkers, I suggest it’s an area to steer clear of.

I’m afraid to say that, despite 10 years of compulsory education, most people are pretty thick and only semi-literate. They read headlines and facts need to be very short and sweet.

Any numbers need to be positive – so not negative death counts but stats of the survivors.

Brief info why the tests are unreliable might be useful.

73892 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cheezilla, #1018 of 1304 🔗

Nice one Cheezy, can you liaise with Mr Dee as he has said he might be able to design a leaflet, if you have time…
Lockdown truths has volunteered to pass on emails – could we use his forum to communicate as a group?

73529 shorthand, #1019 of 1304 🔗

Swedish health minister on al jazeera right now answering sone very (i think) skewed questions. Excellent responses.

73531 Basics, replying to Basics, 8, #1020 of 1304 🔗


Excellent protests in londin yesterday. Takes RT to report – call them Russia brutes if you like, they skin the BBC every day and yes tgey have their own bias.

It’s puzzling that LS missed this. Perhaps LS needs to up a gear as others have been saying.

I believe another protest is set for 8th Aug – but don’t quote me.

73542 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Basics, 5, #1021 of 1304 🔗

Unless it’s all under a D-notice then as this blog is UK based and he also live sin the UK Toby cannot mention it.

If it gets moved to a server in say Iceland or Russia or somewhere non UK based then that is a different matter.

I still believe Whitty’s comments on 21 July are under one – no-one is reporting it anywhere as yet.

73552 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Awkward Git, #1022 of 1304 🔗

What can’t Toby mention?

73571 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Carrie, 1, #1023 of 1304 🔗

I believe it’s being thought a protest in london is under supposed d notice.

Not sure about that myself. It feels more like ignoring by msm.

Possibly Toby didn’t know or chose to omit based on previous turnout.

Its good news and the main point should be the focus. There was an action in London. That momentum needs to be built upon.
8th Aug is mentioned for next protest.

73589 ▶▶▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Basics, 2, #1024 of 1304 🔗

Anyone who expects the MSM to report on “inconvenient truths” is going to be disappointed. I have lost count of the number of demonstrations that have been underreported or not reported at all, when the subject of the demo was “not according to the liking of the government”.

73553 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Awkward Git, #1025 of 1304 🔗

I thought D Notice was advisory?

73557 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to IMoz, #1026 of 1304 🔗

What are we thinking is under a D notice? I’m confused..

73583 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Carrie, #1027 of 1304 🔗

A Skeptics march in London, see Basics top of thread.

73630 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to karenovirus, #1028 of 1304 🔗

Not me suggesting D notice. I feel it doesn’t need one – the press are compliant enough to observe and paint the required agenda

73601 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Carrie, #1029 of 1304 🔗

I was just talking about the D Notices themselves

73586 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to IMoz, #1030 of 1304 🔗

D-Notice is law (sort of) and if issued ALL UK based journalists, media, TV news etc normally comply or it’s more than their job is worth. So it’s voluntary with a big silent OR ELSE added on.

Typically British Establishment old boys club way of doing things.

To protect themselves from government harassment the media companies “police” themselves to comply.

They will not even mention if a D-Notice is in force so all very secretive.


In this day and age it’s bit outdated as any non-UK based journalist or media outlet can publish it on the internet etc all they like – as long a steely are aware of the information that is under d-notice.

Maybe RT might do it?

73579 ▶▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Awkward Git, #1031 of 1304 🔗

I don’t understand your reasoning. Anyone can comment from anywhere on a blog based anywhere. Server location only means something if you are trying to avoid being shut down for being controversial, and commenting on stuff published by RT does not come into this category unless there is a Court Order in place.

You are misguided on this one.

73836 ▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to RichardJames, #1032 of 1304 🔗

Yep, agree with you it’s pointless but our Government doesn’t seem to have grasped the concept that you cannot hide much for that long on the internet but they still keep doing it.

73576 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Basics, #1033 of 1304 🔗

BBC would have reported on that crowd as being ‘hideously white’.

73602 ▶▶▶ Fenlander, replying to karenovirus, #1034 of 1304 🔗

Any excuse to label white people as far right.

73622 ▶▶▶ mjr, replying to karenovirus, #1035 of 1304 🔗

and right wing

73662 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Basics, 1, #1036 of 1304 🔗

RT is surprisingly useful in its reporting at the moment.

One can pick and choose, and at least it doesn’t toe the PC line.

73750 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to wendyk, 1, #1037 of 1304 🔗

yes their propaganda seems to be more factual than the BBC and Sky’s propaganda

73752 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to wendyk, 1, #1038 of 1304 🔗

With all information there is a bias including mine and even yours (everyone). In a democratic society with free speech as one main component biases are for each of us to judge. It becomes wise to listen to many other sources – not to the extreme of listening to an O Jones screech though! Each of us can judge given various view points is something to do with interesting humanity.

When censorship is introduced and clear self promoting suggests the BBC is “the news” there becomes a problem.

RT is a counter to the BBC on many issues. Not to be confused with RT being all powerful. It is a useful resource.

73671 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, #1039 of 1304 🔗


Haven’t watched all of it and can’t see the scale of it

73755 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, #1040 of 1304 🔗

Unable to see instagram.

73788 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Basics, 1, #1041 of 1304 🔗

Should just open in a browser.

73842 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to stefarm, #1042 of 1304 🔗

“…. in harmony with the Universe. The Protectors, the Guiders are looking out for us right now ….”

He might be right but the new-agey speech won’t do them any favours if they want their message to be taken seriously!

73825 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #1043 of 1304 🔗

The gathering was flagged up here several times in the last couple of weeks.
One of our LS members went to it, and reported baclk in detail on last night’s LS BTLs.
He said it was shambolic and became more about 5G and paedophilia than covid-related stuff.
The Mail actually did us a favour with its reporting here.

73547 karenovirus, replying to karenovirus, 10, #1044 of 1304 🔗

Report from the shopfront.
Yesterday was a 5-3 Victory for the maskless in my local convenience store.
This morning at McColls, elderly chap in front no mask, 2 maskless paperboys waiting to go on their rounds *, 1 masked customer, 2 staff one with one without
= 5-2 (incl me) win for Sceptics.

* Call that a bloody paper round ? Bag I had to lug around was 5 times bigger !

73556 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to karenovirus, 3, #1045 of 1304 🔗

I did a paper round in my teens (37 houses) and hated Sundays – every house took more than one paper and they weighed a ton with all the supplements!

73816 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1046 of 1304 🔗

We had to leave the front door unlocked so the paperboy could pop them inside because they wouldn’t fit through the letterbox.

73819 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1047 of 1304 🔗

Yes, I often had to leave the Sunday papers on a mat in a covered porch area because of that!

73814 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to karenovirus, #1048 of 1304 🔗

More online papers?
Fewer deliveries – my friend always walks to the shop to get hers.

73551 Edward Giles, replying to Edward Giles, 12, #1049 of 1304 🔗

Our church is holding its first Sunday service since March today. I duly went (maskless of course) but was told by the churchwarden that I could not come in without a muzzle. Pointed out to her that it is not (yet) the law that we have to wear them in churches but she said that is what the bishops recommend. As I consider most of our bishops are as much use as a pork pie at a barmitzah that line failed to convince me! I therefore departed and I am afraid it is the last time they will see me there until this nonsense is over

73566 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Edward Giles, 4, #1050 of 1304 🔗

Is provision of religious services not covered by Disability Discrimination law ?

73578 ▶▶▶ Edward Giles, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1051 of 1304 🔗

Not sure but even if they are the people at the church would suspect I was trying it on as they know I am an active walker and cyclist and probably fitter than 99% of the congregation.

73625 ▶▶▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Edward Giles, #1052 of 1304 🔗

Most middle aged plus cyclists could walk quicker than they are cycling. Biking only increases fitness when you are going at a decent lick. Most of these new wave cyclists are not capable of that.

73739 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Edward Giles, 3, #1053 of 1304 🔗

It’s not a question of fitness but the fact that wearing a face nappy causes you severe distress doesn’t it?

73798 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Edward Giles, 2, #1054 of 1304 🔗

Doesn’t mean you don’t suffer extreme anxiety at the mere thought of having to wear a mask……

73572 ▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Edward Giles, 3, #1055 of 1304 🔗

What would Jesus do?

73574 ▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1056 of 1304 🔗

Time to start your own Church gathering.

73588 ▶▶▶ Howie59, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1057 of 1304 🔗

He would resist and cleanse the temple of the den of thieves.

73590 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Mr Dee, #1058 of 1304 🔗

Which side of the line do face masks fall? Are they Caesar’s province or God’s?

73617 ▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to OKUK, 5, #1059 of 1304 🔗

They are Satan’s…

73802 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to OKUK, #1060 of 1304 🔗

So he would give the masks back to King Bloris.

73732 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mr Dee, #1061 of 1304 🔗

Well – as I non-Christian, I would say the evidence wouldn’t suggest that his strength was in going around infecting people with an imagined virus.

73799 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #1062 of 1304 🔗

What’s the mask-equivalent of overturning tables?

73595 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Edward Giles, 4, #1063 of 1304 🔗

I have considered for some years that God does not require us to have a church building in order to worship. The early Christians did not have dedicated churches. I can see “church” becoming something else entirely; meet outdoors, a house, a garden shed; where two or three are gathered together, there will I be amongst them

73653 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to thedarkhorse, 1, #1064 of 1304 🔗

That’s what ‘church’ actually means; assembly. As in ‘broad church’.

73810 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to thedarkhorse, #1065 of 1304 🔗

I think, psychologically, that would be a very good move.

Take the service out of the buildings and the hierarchy and beurocracy they represent nowadays. Back to its roots, maybe starting with a group study of the Gospel of Thomas.

Jesus’ message was that you don’t need a priest to intercede between you and God – and that’s why the pharisees, not the Romans, killed him.

I keep being reminded of George Harrison’s lyrics: I look at you all, see the love there that’s sleeping ….

73660 ▶▶ Quernus, replying to Edward Giles, 1, #1066 of 1304 🔗

Can we not argue an exemption as we can for not wearing them in shops? Would be inconsistent not to allow that, but then, that’s the hallmark of this whole farce…

73736 ▶▶ AllieT, replying to Edward Giles, 2, #1067 of 1304 🔗

This illustrates why I’m glad Mr.T & I saw the light & have left the CofE for a independent church

73598 Word Immunity, #1068 of 1304 🔗

The UK Government should tell Sage to get stuffed.

73599 fran, replying to fran, 5, #1069 of 1304 🔗

According to Breitbart.com/Europe this morning the manager of the Birds Bakery has been fired!! This is the individual who refused a customer paying by cash

73603 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to fran, 3, #1070 of 1304 🔗


73611 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to fran, 5, #1071 of 1304 🔗
73612 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 6, #1073 of 1304 🔗

here is the 1946 Statutory Instrument Act that allows all this:


One piece of legislation that should be repealed.

73729 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1074 of 1304 🔗

More urgently, parliamentary oversight and sunset clauses have to be stonger.

73616 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #1075 of 1304 🔗

Big story in Germany’s Spiegel on Why is India’s death rate so low?

The answers they provide: strict local lockdowns and faked stats.

The real answer they omitted completely: mass prophylactic AND early treatment with HCQ.

73648 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #1076 of 1304 🔗

Also young population, average age under 30 years

73724 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #1077 of 1304 🔗

There are obviously multiple factors operating – age profile of the population is pretty certainly one, and it does look as if climatic factors are also related.

Underlying it all, of course, is the unreliability of any data involving Covid.

73785 ▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1078 of 1304 🔗

Alsoo Invermectin.
Isn’t it interesting how the poorer parts of the world have found a variety of cures or treatments while the 1st world is dedicated to killing off the elderly.


73813 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nessimmersion, 1, #1079 of 1304 🔗

1st world want to reduce their pension bill and see elderly as dispensable. Poorer parts of the world have greater respect for the elderly and the wisdom that comes from having ‘been around’ longer!

73618 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #1080 of 1304 🔗

BCG vaccination trials, part funded by Murdoch Childrens Research Institute and the Melinda Gates foundation is in phase 3 trials. Do these trial results dates ring a bell?

Murdoch Children’s Research Institute has organized BRACE, a Phase 3, two-group, multicenter, open-label, randomized, controlled trial of up to 4170 health care workers in Australian hospitals to determine if BCG vaccination reduces the incidence and severity of COVID-19 during the 2020 pandemic [4]. Primary results are expected in October 2020, and full study results are expected in March 2022.’


Also no shortage of infections in Melbourne where the Murdoch Children’s Research Centre is located, unlike Vietnam where a similar trial had to be cancelled due to lack of covid 19 infections…….which kind of supports the efficacy of the BCG vaccine in the first place. The BCG vaccination is mandatory in Vietnam but not routinely given to youngsters in Australia since 1976 (UK since 2005)

Of course there are caveats:

‘BCG vaccination is not going to be a silver bullet that provides perfect protection against COVID-19 or any other pandemic illness. However, we may find it provides some level of protection. If so, it will be a readily available to bridge the gap and protect health-care workers and other vulnerable individuals until a specific COVID-19 vaccine is developed.’


But we know BCG vaccination is safe for those who have not had it. Let us not forget that circa 12 million immigrants have come to this country in the last 20 years who may or may not have had the BCG vaccination.

And it allows more time to be spent ensuring the safety and efficacy of specific covid 19 vaccines under development.

Arguably more importantly, it offers a good prospect of bringing to an end this global silliness by next spring…….

73623 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tim Bidie, 3, #1081 of 1304 🔗

Problem is that we cannot rule out them putting dangerous adjuvants (also sterilising agents) into any BCG vaccine they use now – it won’t just be the ‘old’ version.
They’re only talking about using the BCG vaccine now, because they’ve begun to realise people will not take any totally ‘new’ vaccine….

73639 ▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Carrie, 4, #1082 of 1304 🔗

Healthy scepticism should, indeed, be the default position but the relevant reports will be freely available for all to make up their own minds, or be guided by those they trust.

Unfortunately your comment does highlight one of the major outcomes of this fandango, which is a complete lack of trust now in anything run by the state….and that distrust is likely to increase and multiply over the coming months……

73791 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, 2, #1083 of 1304 🔗

Yes. Vaccines nowadays are nothing like those in the 1970s. The adjuvants are often what cause the side effects:


73628 tonyspurs, replying to tonyspurs, 5, #1084 of 1304 🔗

This scares me much more than an uptick in cases as it should everyone else

73632 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to tonyspurs, #1085 of 1304 🔗

Who are they, where are they, and what is their purpose?

73634 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Carrie, 1, #1086 of 1304 🔗

BLM march in Brixton yesterday

73640 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to tonyspurs, #1087 of 1304 🔗

Dear god, I thought it was isis. The onlookers are almost all white.

73655 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to tonyspurs, 3, #1088 of 1304 🔗

not quite BLM – the “Forever Family Force”. who want compensation for slavery . But there were BLM and XR in attendance.

73854 ▶▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to mjr, 1, #1089 of 1304 🔗

Compensation ahh of course….

74237 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to mjr, 2, #1090 of 1304 🔗

They’re not slaves, and never have been.
Their ancestors never came here as slaves. They emigrated from wherever to this country.
Slavery was endemic across the world since antiquity. We helped put an end to it, and paid money to do so. We’ve pay £millions to Africa in charitable donations and Foreign Aid.
FF Force can go f*** themselves.
With the rough end of a pineapple for all I care.

73644 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to tonyspurs, 1, #1092 of 1304 🔗

Apparently the cops ‘thanked ‘them for a peaceful march.

Reminds me of Hezbollah et al.

74242 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to wendyk, 1, #1093 of 1304 🔗

Just as they did after the protest for free speech a couple of years ago, organised by Tommy Robinson.

Oh, wait. Didn’t they arrest him a few weeks later and throw him in jail after a 5 minute hearing with no proper legal representation??

73690 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to tonyspurs, #1094 of 1304 🔗

Why? If you look at the story and scroll beyond the stupid headlines, you can see it was peaceful. Also a lot of non masked protestors too. Anyone using their right to protest, is basically on the same side, even if you don’t agree with their cause.

73703 ▶▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to PoshPanic, 9, #1095 of 1304 🔗

Any group wearing paramilitary uniforms should be treated with concern if that was Robinson and his cronies there would be uproar ,no problem with protests in fact the more the better but history has shown us groups wearing paramilitary uniforms are not really up for a debate

73697 ▶▶ wendy, replying to tonyspurs, 7, #1096 of 1304 🔗

Whilst across great swaths of the north people are not allowed to meet with each other even in gardens.

73783 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendy, 1, #1097 of 1304 🔗

Let’s see them lockdown Brixton. Not on the radar!

73826 ▶▶▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1098 of 1304 🔗

they know that riots and looting would result, and that Old Bill would be too busy on their knees to maintain control, the authorities are running scared

73774 ▶▶ Basics, replying to tonyspurs, 3, #1099 of 1304 🔗

In comment about the picture. If you are out and about in an F Force little stab vesty with a bum bag worn like a sporran and your chin in a sling then I suggest perhaps there are things going on in your mind that may have little to do with your own individuality. I would suggest an objective look at what you’ve become. Malcom X, Martin Luther King or those brave Birmingham Alabama students knew more about courage than you ever will.

You look like a loser because you are lost.

4th in line.

73822 ▶▶ Ethelred the Unready, replying to tonyspurs, 4, #1100 of 1304 🔗

They look like some kind of paramilitary, can you imagine the media outrage and uproar if the participants were of opposite ethnicity? This is apparently ‘acceptable’, well not to Ethelred it bloody isn’t!

73629 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #1101 of 1304 🔗

I must admit I am getting close to twatting some muzzled moron. Watching an idiot yesterday in a garden centre, hot and sticky atmosphere; he was big, bearded and tattooed and muzzled, turning pale and wheezing galore and glaring at me and the wife everytime he turned around.

Every 20 or 30 seconds he would pull the mask up to take a few deep breaths and then walk on.

I thought “if you collapse you’re on your own twat”.

Lucky the wife was with me as I did feel like helping him on his way to falling over to get it over and done with.

I wasn’t going to tell an arse like that about the exemptions – little old ladies yes but not compliant big burly bloke with the IQ of a sparrow.

On good thing was seeing furtively how many people pulled their masks down to below their noses or chins once we had passed.

73682 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1102 of 1304 🔗

Then, having well fingered their (presumably Covid-laden – if not what’s the f**** point) masks, they carry on touching products, door handles, trolleys etc.

73693 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Alec in France, 4, #1103 of 1304 🔗

Exactly. No point in face coverings at all.

73713 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1104 of 1304 🔗

Anyone who glares at me will get an even more ferocious return glare. I won’t be cowed by these bloody idiots. If they want to wear a sanitary towel on their face and have breathing difficulties as a result fine, they can fill their boots. But they are not imposing it on me.

73717 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to kh1485, 4, #1105 of 1304 🔗

Love this kh! Anyone remember Yoko Ono wearing one over her eyes on Top of the Pops?

73731 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Margaret, 6, #1106 of 1304 🔗

Missed that!

Yes, my dirty looks have been in much use recently with customers insisting on putting their bloody face-masks on my cafe tables and not realising the complete and utter irony of that (“oh, I’m wearing it to keep *you* safe” – yeah right) and then leaving a napkin they have wiped their gobs* on behind for me to clear away!

*sorry, uncouth but feeling pissed off today!

73780 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to kh1485, 2, #1107 of 1304 🔗

Instead of all the covid-compliant signs you’ve no doubt been “encouraged” to put up, maybe replace them with a big one that says “Please don’t put your dirty facemasks on the tables”.
Might just stir a few braincells too.

73782 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1108 of 1304 🔗

That is a great idea!

73784 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1109 of 1304 🔗

I have zero covid-compliant signs! Mine are the exact opposite:

“No masks in here” and “If you have to use the hand gel, please use it outside”

Will definitely consider the face-mask on table embargo though!

73852 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to kh1485, #1110 of 1304 🔗

You are my hero!

73792 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to kh1485, 3, #1111 of 1304 🔗

You could do with a mask hook rack outside your shop – with a ”please leave your germs outside” sign

73797 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Major Panic, 3, #1112 of 1304 🔗

Thanks MP, that’s bloody brilliant!

73635 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 9, #1113 of 1304 🔗

… We want to give people more confidence to shop safely…

There is also evidence that face coverings increase confidence in people to shop…

The British Retail Consortium has said that, together with other social distancing measures, face coverings can“make shoppers feel even more confident about returning to the High Street.”

The chair of the Federation of Small Businesses has said: “As mandatory face coverings are introduced, small firms know that they have a part to play in the nation’s recovery both physically and financially, and I’m sure this will welcomed by them.”


I just love it when being stupid backfires:-


73646 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to IMoz, 6, #1114 of 1304 🔗

I wrote to the FSB a couple of times pointing out that their members were being lied to by councils and how to play the system.

They ignored the information with times.

They don’t care about their members.

73734 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1115 of 1304 🔗

They never have cared,all the trade associations we used to be in never did anything to help when we needed it.

73664 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to IMoz, 8, #1116 of 1304 🔗

‘Compared with last year, footfall in England across all retail destinations remains 37.8 per cent lower.’

You can argue a percent rise here or there, but the above demonstrates that the government have completely failed. Boris needs to step down, simples.

73678 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to IMoz, 3, #1117 of 1304 🔗

Based on personal impressions of shop and supermarket car parks, footfall was down by at least half in this area the week that muzzles were made compulsory.

73685 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Alec in France, 4, #1118 of 1304 🔗

I was walking through city centre the other day and there were two girls and a bloke walking near me (about 18-20 year olds) one of the girls wanted to go into a shop to browse, to which the bloke said: “you need a mask, I don’t have one.” Needless to say, they didn’t go into the shop…

73687 ▶▶ wendy, replying to IMoz, 8, #1119 of 1304 🔗

I won’t be going to any shops as long as the face masks carry on, except to rush in and out with a few food things. We need big businesses to start to say this is a stupid thing. Anyone fancy going to see a film wearing a face mask?

73708 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to wendy, 1, #1120 of 1304 🔗

Will they allow removing the mask for eating and drinking in cinemas?

If so, popcorn-snackers etc. will hardly need to wear one.

If not, a big element of cinema turnover will be heavily reduced.

73773 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Alec in France, #1121 of 1304 🔗

Aren’t HMG banning the sale of popcorn etc in cinemas?
Not as stupid as they make out are they – except when it comes to the economy!

73781 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #1122 of 1304 🔗

Can they legally ban drinks in cinemas?

73769 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to wendy, 3, #1123 of 1304 🔗

Why rush in and out? Go in muzzle-free and take as much time as you want.

73637 A Meshiea, replying to A Meshiea, 4, #1124 of 1304 🔗

Medical Authority
Is this our future?
Parents (doctors) dragged violently by police away from their terminally ill daughter.


73675 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #1125 of 1304 🔗

Disgusting, vile. I have no other words other than really obscene ones.

73683 ▶▶ wendy, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #1126 of 1304 🔗

This is my fear. Where does this all stop. Is no one ever allowed to die now. And in the mean time more and more terrible distress and privations.

73701 ▶▶ Philip Baynes, replying to A Meshiea, 2, #1127 of 1304 🔗

Lost for words. Disgusting.

73719 ▶▶ HoMojo, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #1128 of 1304 🔗

This is absolutely tragic and disgusting behaviour by the police officers but has nothing to do with Covid as it happened last year. Doesn’t make it better but since most of us here hate the MSM distorting things we have to be careful too.

73834 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to HoMojo, #1129 of 1304 🔗

Huh. I wondered why I couldn’t find a date but the posting is today.
Still, I can see this becoming normalised for this “pandemic”

73746 ▶▶ RickH, replying to A Meshiea, 2, #1130 of 1304 🔗

Only remember this is the Daily Bile – it’s wise not to take anything they print in this lie factory at face value.

73837 ▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to RickH, #1131 of 1304 🔗

Well it’s not a print it’s a video so it’s hard to use that as an excuse to discount it.
Still it appears to have been an incident from last year, so that is misleading.

73833 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to A Meshiea, #1132 of 1304 🔗

I’ve posted down thread, visitation suspension was never law, it was only ever guidance. I want to know what the actual law is for healthcare provision? Anyone know? I’ve also posted in lockdown sceptics forum, I think we need to get some template letters sorted out, legally checked, and work out what’s guidance and what’s law and start firing them off, and make them apply the law. In my understanding patient visitation was never suspended, it was allowed, [partic at end of life, if in the best interests of the patient. I’ve had it with these bastards, they can first do no harm. I think they are bound by PSED, equality law, patient rights, risk assessments and all the rest.

73659 Awkward Git, 7, #1134 of 1304 🔗

Great Dilbert a few days ago:


73661 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #1135 of 1304 🔗

Daily Mail says 74 deaths on 1st Aug. NHS figures say 4. I am just a dim northerner, is there a technical name, you know, in statistics and all that, for “add 70 on”.
Just wondering.

73669 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1136 of 1304 🔗

This is where they get the 74 from (click on “Table” instead of “Chart”), but there’s no explanation where the 74 comes from other than a vague reference to PHE: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

73696 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to IMoz, 3, #1137 of 1304 🔗

Thanks. There are just so many sets of figs, PHE/ONS/GOV blah, blah. It’s almos t like they want it to be difficult. Surely not?

73698 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1138 of 1304 🔗

I suspect they’ll take whoever generates biggest numbers in their dataset, and, so far as PHE is concerned, COVID-19 is a chronic incurable disease, so their numbers will be highest…

74215 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to IMoz, #1139 of 1304 🔗

“This website will be decommissioned on Tuesday 4 August 2020. Please read the announcement to learn more about how this change might affect you or your service”

So they’re taking the website down on Tuesday, presumably because the numbers are too low to continue reporting….

73670 ▶▶ Peter Thompson, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #1140 of 1304 🔗

Matt Hancock asked for an urgent review of how PHE England collates its data. That was over 3 weeks ago. Nothing has changed since then because of political considerations. The type of person who works for PHE England in their data department have a tendency to hold to a leftish world opinion. it is just how it is.

They will continue to do computer searches for all those who have tested covid+ since Feb 2020 and even if they die under a bus in July their death is put down as ” with covid “

73691 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Peter Thompson, 5, #1141 of 1304 🔗

Surely it takes about as long to run the correct query as it does to run the wrong one? But that would be too easy, wouldn’t it?

73718 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1142 of 1304 🔗




It’s difficult (I suck at SQL before anyone points the numerous mistakes!), I can see why it would take billions to solve the problem.

73733 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #1143 of 1304 🔗

Well, that is a whole one extra criterion. And that would involve [some viewers may find the next word sensitive] “work”…

73725 ▶▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1144 of 1304 🔗

I think that the problem is they are not collating stats on recoveries. We seem to be the only country that isn’t doing this. Thus they dont have a dataset which includes those who tested postive in the past, but then recovered.

73674 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 5, #1145 of 1304 🔗

The first page column chart has a y-axis maximum value of…. wait for it… 1.2 Yay!! And it goes up in handy increments of 0.2 For individual deaths… of which, there are 4.

Some weeks ago, the Y-axis max was 1000. But we need a local lockdown.

73679 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #1146 of 1304 🔗

Very glad we are talking about this as I’ve been wondering about it. Very few in hospital with Covid and very few deaths yet we are still recording high deaths so where are these deaths happening.

73681 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1147 of 1304 🔗

Probably the difference between deaths being formally registered on 1st August (which will include deaths from previous days or even weeks) and deaths actually occurring in hospital on 1 August (which won’t include deaths in care homes or people’s residences).So you could at least double or triple that figure of 4 would be my guess.

73704 ▶▶▶ Alan Billingsley, replying to OKUK, 2, #1148 of 1304 🔗

The number of deaths announced by the Government eg 74, is derived by checking against a list of those who have EVER tested positive for the virus and if anyone has died of ANYTHING that day it counts as a COVID-19 death.

73715 ▶▶ Alan Billingsley, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #1149 of 1304 🔗

Also from the NHS and ONS data the average deaths in hospitals in England is averaging 6 per day over the last 7 days and there are similar number of deaths per day outside hospitals (even these figures could be on the high side considering how COVID-19 is registered) Yet you rarely see these figures in the media

73745 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Alan Billingsley, 1, #1150 of 1304 🔗

Given that well over a thousand people (on average) die every day in this country, it’s hardly surprising that 70 have died in Care Homes etc.!

Total deaths are actually running below the mean for this time of year.

73716 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1151 of 1304 🔗

Four deaths in hospital, 70 elsewhere – care homes, etc. Which begs the question (already posted way down the thread), if you’re so ill with the bat flu that you’re about to croak, wouldn’t you be in hospital, probably on a ventilator? So maybe, i.e. probably, these 70 deaths are those who’ve tested positive but have died of something else.

73775 ▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1152 of 1304 🔗

Either way, it’s a drop in the ocean when you consider that the average daily death rate in the UK is around 1600.

73778 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #1153 of 1304 🔗

This fact cannot be stated often enough – it’s like people have no concept of these basic statistics…

73694 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1154 of 1304 🔗

Random clusters appearing out of nowhere in Scotland. At least we haven’t resorted to locking people up in their homes yet. Zero COVID is the equivalent of alchemy.

Aberdeen coronavirus cluster: NHS Grampian investigates 13 new cases linked to Hawthorn Bar

73700 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nobody2020, 9, #1155 of 1304 🔗

All those who tested positive are showing only mild symptoms, though the health board says there may be further cases linked to the cluster.

Wow – you mean it’s possible to get the Deadly Killer Virus and not die instantly??

73705 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Sam Vimes, 3, #1156 of 1304 🔗

Exactly, that’s what needs to concentrated on in the MSM. Will this happen?

73706 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #1157 of 1304 🔗

That’s just a myth. Nobody has actually seen a survivor. A bit like Nessie.

73710 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1158 of 1304 🔗

All dead in Sweden now I guess?

73714 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to wendy, 2, #1159 of 1304 🔗

Yep. It’s a desolation, a post-apocolyptic wasteland.

I’m thinking of moving there in a few weeks and having the country to myself.

73712 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1160 of 1304 🔗

Hmm, you could be right. I heard that a professor said you can never recover from it! I’m so scared! I mean it must have got worse, cos we all have to wear masks now and the government have got them ‘percentages’ and stuff. Better stay in.

73770 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Sam Vimes, #1161 of 1304 🔗

All those = 13 and probably have a hangover.

74208 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to Sam Vimes, #1162 of 1304 🔗

Just like that deadly nerve agent in Salisbury….

73768 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Nobody2020, #1163 of 1304 🔗

Good excuse to shut the bar as it’s uncleeeeaaannnnnnnn

73841 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1164 of 1304 🔗

Alchemy is a little understood science/art/path. Much is deliberately obscure to avoid getting hacked or burned by the Inquisition, and to prevent the ‘profane’ doing harm to themselves or to others.

But compared to Zero COVID it’s a bright shining beacon of common sense and clarity.

73709 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 7, #1165 of 1304 🔗

This is a good comparison between Stockholm and the rest of Sweden. Exactly the same strategy throughout the country. Stockholm sacrificed the old and the rest of Sweden got it right, right?:


73777 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1166 of 1304 🔗

Just over one million people live in Stockholm (a tenth of Sweden’s population) and the biggest care homes are there. Pressure on hospitals meant that there were official policies invoked about limiting hospital treatment for people over a certain age. That is likely a factor. Also a lot of Somalians live in the capital, in crowded housing. Many do not speak Swedish so would not have understood all the public messaging re precautions to take. Just a couple of contributing factors (there are others as well..).

73711 Hopeful, replying to Hopeful, 23, #1167 of 1304 🔗

Decided to do some field work. Have visited 3 local supermarkets in as many days. I did not wear a mask in any. Got some stares but no grief. The stares didn’t bother me. Have a couple of responses ready for when I do get challenged.
Observed the different body stances of mask wearers. The proud and cocky carriage of the aren’t I a good citizen mob. The slumped, awkward and timid demeanour of the going-along to get along person. The fidgety and irritated wearer fighting with the thing, resisting the rag rather than the order to wear it. My final category for now is the supermarket sweep type. These are the folks donning said mask at the entrance, dashing round the shop, spending as little time as possible getting what they need, and liberating their face as soon as they leave. They usually take in a deep breath at this stage I’ve noticed!
Also took a road trip the other day. Stopped at a motorway services. Mask wearers everywhere. Even wearing the ruddy things when sitting outside in the sunshine and dare I say it, fresh air. Seen too many children well under 11 years of age wearing a mask.

Sense has to prevail. Good must triumph over evil. The greed and power driving all of the stuff that’s being done under cover of covid is predicated on evil against humanity.

73722 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Hopeful, 16, #1168 of 1304 🔗

It’s clear that the sheep think their mask will protect *them*, not others. Hence wearing on empty streets, in cars etc. Or just having it on the person, like a talisman.

And yet they were told about the ‘small effect in protecting others, when worn indoors, where social distancing is not possible ‘.

And don’t get me started on how we *did* manage social distancing in supermarkets for months before maskageddon.

Their mentality will be our downfall.

73740 ▶▶▶ Sophie123, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1169 of 1304 🔗

Oh yes. I walked past a 20 something in London a couple of days ago. She had her mask round her ears and pulled it across her face in alarm as we got within 1 metre of each other on the pavement. She was frightened. Insanity.

The irony is, I’d just had a negative COVID test so I could fly to Barbados without quarantine. Which is lovely but very quiet by the way. Do come here. The Bajan economy is going to need it. They’re super keen on taking everyone’s temperature every 5 minutes – I guess to reassure tourists – and masks in shops, but otherwise people seem pretty chilled about it

73766 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Sophie123, 3, #1170 of 1304 🔗

I’m not happy about temperature-taking – it is an invasion of bodily integrity and is the slippery slope towards more invasive interventions. They are already doing thermal scanning at airports which I’m sure gives more info than just temperature – not sure it is entirely without harm either..

73828 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Carrie, #1171 of 1304 🔗

Also not recommended by WHO as a way to tell if you re infectious or not.

I was thinking of going to Jamaica but paying out a lot of my own money to escape from prison GB to prison elsewhere is a definite NO.

73741 ▶▶▶ davews, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #1172 of 1304 🔗

There really needs to be a campaign to highlight the exemptions from mask wearing. Even the government law/guidelines are woolly. I would estimate that if you take under 11s, asthma and other breathing issues into account around a third of people would be exempt. Why is this not being pushed, if mask4all are serious this should be documented on their site as well.

From yesterday’s experience in Tesco I know that for relatively short time wear I soon become slightly breathless, with the feeling lasting quite a long time after I take it off. Not to mention glasses steaming up and tangling with hearing aids. Unlike some on here I have at least tried, they don’t do me any good at all – so won’t bother on my next shopping trip. The world has gone mad, I have my own health to think about.

73765 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to davews, 1, #1173 of 1304 🔗

Masks4all want everyone wearing them – they have clear WHO links..

73884 ▶▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Carrie, 1, #1174 of 1304 🔗

Not to mention the World Economic Forum, GSK, Microsoft, Google plus many more and that’s just the founder, Peter Ludwig: https://www.petrludwig.com/

If you can be bothered, look at this page and go through the ‘team’ to find out all their vested interests: https://masks4all.co/about-us/ Others, including myself have posted about this before.

Masks4all is not about to publish anything about exemptions; it’s not what they are about. Even asthma.co.uk which presents as if it’s a support group says asthmatics can wear masks (!) because, guess what, they are a private company in cahoots with 4 Big Pharma companies.

It really is ‘follow the money’. Masks4 all are as dodgy as they come, they have been mixed up in this from the start.

73771 ▶▶▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to davews, 8, #1175 of 1304 🔗

I don’t need a government sanctioned excuse.
In fact, on principle I will not wear one and not supply any reason to anyone who asks.
Mind your own business is all they need to know,

73832 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to A Meshiea, 3, #1176 of 1304 🔗

Yep, that’s my position as well. Some people are not as confident though, and that is what is so disgusting. They are made to be fearful and scared for not wearing a ridiculous face covering. Something Cressida Dick (extremely well named) said would be a very good thing. I have not been challenged yet, even in Waitrose. I think they can see if you are a bit timid or not. Like all bullies they only pick on those they think won’t give it back.

73776 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to davews, 5, #1177 of 1304 🔗

Actually davews this is the point that l’ve been making to anyone who will listen. We should all be exempt because wearing a mask causes us distress, either physical or mental. I am convinced that this is the intention of the government otherwise they wouldn’t have made it so easy. Print out an exemption card and carry it in your pocket. I doubt that you will ever need to show it now shops are cottoning on fast.

73794 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Margaret, 7, #1178 of 1304 🔗

This is the point I made to a customer the other day. He was worried about wearing a face-mask, so I told him about the exemption lanyards/badges. He said he didn’t have a medical condition but I reasoned with him that if the thought of it was making him anxious (and he’s a chap in his mid-eighties so a bit frail) then he was within his rights to refuse to wear one. I gave him one of my spare (as yet unused) badges. He reported yesterday that he wore it and had no trouble from either the supermarket door bouncer or other customers. Result!

73801 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 5, #1179 of 1304 🔗

You have spread the righteous word and converted an unbeliever. You are a saint. Go forth and smite them with your salt-beef.

73809 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1180 of 1304 🔗

He’s a lockdown sceptic but just didn’t want to make out he had a medical ‘problem’ in order to wear an exemption badge (bless him, he thought that was tantamount to lying).

73820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to kh1485, 2, #1181 of 1304 🔗

Yeah, I wouldn’t lie about disability out of respect, but distress is another matter.

73821 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1182 of 1304 🔗

It’s not the sheep we have to worry about, it’s those programming them.

73720 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 7, #1183 of 1304 🔗

Very frustrated today, I live in the dreaded north west near keighley, friends were supposed to come and be with us for ‘zoom’ church but now can’t. As a Christian I am struggling to reconcile having to submit to ruling authorities standing up to injustice.

73723 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Moomin, #1184 of 1304 🔗

and standing up to injustice that should read.

73747 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, 1, #1185 of 1304 🔗

What’s Christian about submitting to ruling authorities?
Surely standing up to injustice is loving thy neighbour – as thyself?

73754 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Cheezilla, #1186 of 1304 🔗

Romans 13 among others, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. Personally I believe the loving thing to do for members of a congregation is to tell them they’re being misled and don’t need to fear or be anxious, instead there is passive acquiescence.

74136 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, #1187 of 1304 🔗

I think there’s BIG difference between God and “ruling authorities”.
What did Paul know anyway?

73753 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Moomin, 4, #1188 of 1304 🔗

Our local CofE are being incredibly officious about this nonsense – a list circulated of about 15 ‘rules’ to be adhered to. Including please don’t gather outside the church to chat etc. So much for community. Very sad.

73756 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to bluemoon, 6, #1189 of 1304 🔗

Yeah, it’s not good. I’m from a non conformist Protestant background but they’re being pretty non protesting conformists

73815 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to bluemoon, 3, #1190 of 1304 🔗

Yeah, our village church said the same thing. Everyone ignored it completely and chatted outside afterwards. 🙂

73763 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Moomin, #1191 of 1304 🔗

Feel for you.. I have an acquaintance who lives in the Bradford area, who was due to get married in church yesterday… I wonder if she was able to – hope so!

73764 ▶▶ A Meshiea, replying to Moomin, 1, #1192 of 1304 🔗

Yep, it’s wife and I just went to the church and saw them spraying people and handing out masks.
We won’t be attending mass today.

73817 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to A Meshiea, 1, #1193 of 1304 🔗

Getting sprayed isn’t a new RC sacrament then, AYM ?

73726 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 3, #1194 of 1304 🔗

August update now out

73735 ▶▶ T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 2, #1195 of 1304 🔗

For those that haven’t seen this site, it provides a range of facts and information on corona related issues at a national and international level. Updated monthly

73730 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 10, #1196 of 1304 🔗

What extreme wokery is this!


Gandhi wasn’t even British, and he campaigned against this country. What next? Hitler on the five pound note?

73737 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1197 of 1304 🔗

Well – given that the British nicked his country, he probably was a British ‘subject’ (we don’t have ‘citizens’ – as this debacle has shown).

Slight difference between Ghandi and Hitler, too : Hitler would have felt more at home here on current evidence.

73738 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to RickH, 2, #1198 of 1304 🔗

Correct. Hitler certainly would. You seen the latest idea – over 50s may be asked to “shield”. It seems like a bit of kite flying, but ….

73748 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Tenchy, 3, #1199 of 1304 🔗

The two most useful words in the English language at present :

“F.” and “Off”

73762 ▶▶▶ Nessimmersion, replying to RickH, 3, #1200 of 1304 🔗

Was his country a country when the British moved in or was it a load of independent fiefdoms that the British unified?

73744 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #1201 of 1304 🔗

Would certainly be appropriate!

73758 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #1202 of 1304 🔗

Where is Sunak from himself, ethnically? Is there a connection?

73742 Fenlander, #1203 of 1304 🔗

Is it possible to post a comment without it remaining forever “Awaiting for approval”? I appear to be in digital purgatory.

73760 HelzBelz, replying to HelzBelz, 10, #1204 of 1304 🔗

Oh fellow sceptics – I feel like the lone voice of sanity amongst all of my friends and even my OH. Some of my friends are clever, well educated, have amazing jobs. But trying to even have a discussion with them about the whole Covid fiasco – they either shut you down or they revert straight to the narrative about how awful Covid is, how many people have died, people who get it may never recover and the second spike is on the way. When pointing out the actual low hospitalisation / death rates currently, I’m either told that I’m just wrong or they don’t believe me. Is is just us? We are a minority after all. Are we falling for false propaganda? I read that excellent facts about Covid on the Swiss Policy Research website – it all makes so much sense to me. But then I see that Wikipedia states that SPR is “Based on its largely conspiratorial contents and its cherry picking of questionable scientific studies, it has been categorised by some as an anti-establishment propaganda site. Sometimes think I am just going mad!

73793 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to HelzBelz, 8, #1205 of 1304 🔗

Swiss policy research references and identifies all its facts and figures. It is a genuine and bona fide site for those who wish to educate themselves. Of course Wikipedia and much else besides will want you to believe it is anti establishment—-anything, repeat anything, that questions the establishment’s narrative is condemned as conspiratorial. Branding something as conspiratorial is the first line of defence to discredit rational and justified opposition to government propaganda. Don’t fall for it for a second.

73807 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to HelzBelz, 7, #1206 of 1304 🔗

Wikipedia states that SPR is “Based on its largely conspiratorial contents and its cherry picking of questionable scientific studies, it has been categorised by some as an anti-establishment propaganda site. Sometimes think I am just going mad!

You’re not, HB. John states that Wikipedia has long since been a worthless info source for anything vaguely controversial – politics, medicine, climate change, etc.

Good for highest mountain, longest river type info. 🙂

73824 ▶▶ RickH, replying to HelzBelz, 7, #1207 of 1304 🔗

In the words of Tom Waits : ‘Hold on’.

It’s f.ing difficult at times living in an asylum run by totally insane idiots. But it has to be done.

The Wikipedia article is obviously a plant. Nothing on the SPR site is half as barmy as the shite coming out of Government and SAGE. It is simply a repository of links to the research that you won’t get in the MSM. Anyone with a brain and a bit of technical nous can assess the stuff for themselves, rather being fed second-hand pap by the MSM.

The devil is always in the data – and that’s the way to keep your balance : just do the real ‘science’ (i.e. rational critical enquiry) yourself. That’s what has shaped my perspective – the official nonsense just doesn’t stand up to analysis – it easily falls apart. But you have to do the examination.

I certainly identify with your dismay, having just been on the ‘phone to a close family member with a fellowship in a scientific subject at a major university.

We argue on the same basis of a knowledge of scientific method, actual data, probability and statistics. He accepts that the government is one of irretrievable idiocy, but he has an emotional reluctance to accept the deeply devious pattern in the distortions and exclusion of evidence. He actually says he would accept a vaccine, even when I pointed out the entirely dubious process that would allow one to be produced in any short timescale.

The latter point is a critical one, since he is generally a staunch defender of proper scientific method and proper peer review. But he would accept a vaccine when – by definition – proper RC Trialling has not been carried out over a sufficient period of time, and where the pharmacological industry has been given indemnity against untoward side effects.

This illustrates the emotional – rather than intellectual – barrier that has to be crossed in order to see what is going on. That’s the effect of brain-washing. People find it hard to believe that government, and those driving the narrative – and, indeed, the totality of the media – have such corrupt motives. They can (just) grasp well-intentioned ‘stupidity’ – but everything else becomes ‘conspiracy theory’, which they balk at.

As I point out – forget cabals of sinister individuals in darkened rooms – it’s much, much simpler : the age old question to be answered is ‘Cui Bono?’, and the answer lies with the commonplace ‘Follow the Money’. But I think there is an inherent wish (political preference apart) for a protective parenting government with an essentially benevolent intent – and it is hard for many to grasp that this ideal is long corrupted.

73843 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to HelzBelz, 2, #1208 of 1304 🔗

I quoted the swprs site in a FB group and someone told me that it was rubbish because Wikipedia said so? I just laughed to myself – wiki can be edited by anyone so you cannot rely on what they say…

73870 ▶▶▶ Albie, replying to Carrie, 4, #1209 of 1304 🔗

Carrie, ask the fb group where the spike they were all promising us after Bournemouth in June went.

73885 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Albie, 4, #1210 of 1304 🔗

Have done! But I am now contenting myself with posting Sweden’s ever-decreasing hospital stats twice a week – they can’t really be argued with, especially as I’m posting in a group for Brits here in Sweden. Bizarrely they all seem to be still in fear and wanting masks brought it here – I have to resist the temptation to suggest that maybe they should all return to the UK if they are not happy with life over here with Tegnell in charge..!

73850 ▶▶ Albie, replying to HelzBelz, 6, #1211 of 1304 🔗

I completely identify with what you say! It feels as if everything I have known and thought is now wrong somehow, with regards to intelligent friends and acquaintances. I wouldn’t say it’s a feeling of betrayal, it feels odd though, it’s like their minds have been taken over. A sci fi plot where every character bar one have their minds taken over, and the viewers are rooting for him or her to get everyone else’s minds back to normal. We are that “one” in our own individual real life plots

73859 ▶▶▶ HelzBelz, replying to Albie, 1, #1212 of 1304 🔗

That is exactly how it feels. How did we sceptics manage to avoid being taken over?

73873 ▶▶▶▶ Albie, replying to HelzBelz, 2, #1213 of 1304 🔗

Maybe the mind works in a similar way to brainwashing as it does to hypnosis? Not everyone can be hypnotised.

73964 ▶▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to HelzBelz, #1214 of 1304 🔗

We’ve spent more time paying attention, looking at the actual data, and or have developed a deep mistrust of anything the media and government tell us. They’ve lied too many times to be trusted on anything any more.
Plus: too little of what we’ve been officially told makes sense. When we’re expected to add two and two and we’ve been told the answer is seven, we tend not to take the information at face value.

73865 ▶▶ Mark, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #1215 of 1304 🔗

it has been categorised by some as an anti-establishment propaganda site

Well, in fairness since the modern establishment is at the heart of our problems, it seems legit to be anti-establishment at the moment.

More important is whether it is truthful or not, and it seems much better in that regard atm than the BBC, Guardian and other establishment sources.

73871 ▶▶ Eddie, replying to HelzBelz, 3, #1216 of 1304 🔗

I am growing more despondent by the day. I was talking to my brother a few days ago and was ho humming about not being able to travel to Georgia for the Masters in November. He has some sort of PhD and said “a vaccine may well be ready by then so you’d be safe to travel and fans will be allowed on site.”
I just went silent and said it won’t be worth the hassle while my brain was screaming I’M NOT TAKING AN EFFIN VACCINE!!
I don’t bother trying to stir people from their suspension of logic and covid-coma, and it’s evident we are a tiny minority opposing this fiasco. Stay strong friends!

73890 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Eddie, 1, #1217 of 1304 🔗

I wonder what people think the vaccine will actually do. It’s unlikely to eradicate the virus and people will likely still die in numbers similar to the flu.

73772 RickH, replying to RickH, 2, #1218 of 1304 🔗

Interesting observation article in ‘OffGuardian’

It highlights a singular spike in mortality in England for younger age-groups that is no observable in other countries (Euromomo).

I have been meaning to do more detailed age-related analysis for some time since I looked at the non-event that was Covid mortality in the longer time-frame. But, you can only devote so much time up close to idiocy.

But the article does highlight an interesting anomaly that isn’t susceptible to any simple explanation – unless it’s to do with a concentration in London.

73838 ▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to RickH, 2, #1219 of 1304 🔗

Maybe if you just remove hospitalised patients from hospital at less than 24 hours notice……

‘To do this we need to organise the safe and rapid discharge of those people who no longer need to be in a hospital bed. The new default will be discharge home today.’


Just a thought…..safe and rapid may not work too well together……..?

73853 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tim Bidie, #1220 of 1304 🔗

Tom do you know what the rules are on care provision more generally and in particular GPs ie) what’s law and what’s guidance? My GP practice has shut its doors, it’s zoom, phone or nothing, and even then it’s like trying to get into Fort Knox. I think they are not actually implementing law but guidance? Any idea of where I’d find out?

73880 ▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to BecJT, #1221 of 1304 🔗
73875 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to RickH, 1, #1222 of 1304 🔗

I think Malcolm Kendrick also mentioned this spike in mortality in England for younger age groups.

73779 PowerCorrupts, 1, #1223 of 1304 🔗

IMPORTANT: PETITION TO SIGN : Break up big tech to stop censorship of facts & opinions they don’t want seen, as happened to Frontline Doctors demanding use of HCQ banned off Facebook, Twitter, youtube:

73790 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1224 of 1304 🔗

This is an almost grotesque article from 15 th June, a world wide study, showing how effective mask wearing is in the world.
 It is only worth reading page 7-9 you can see all countries and when mandate masks were introduced. The most hilarious is the graph  Mortality May 9 th and see how much deaths have increased in non-mask countries. The problem is now that anyone can pick masses of countries included in the study which has now an alarming increase of cases and deaths whether in Chile, Colombia and Philippines.(I couldn’t find Argentina’s mask mandate but another spectacular failure). An extra ordinary paper. And this is the basis for the decision? Difficult to find any paper which has aged so rapidly

73805 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, #1225 of 1304 🔗

Another link to add to our campaign leaflet!

73808 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to swedenborg, #1226 of 1304 🔗

just be careful with medrxiv, it’s paid for by Facebook’s Zuckerberg’s The Chan Zuckerberg Initiative

73795 JohnB, #1227 of 1304 🔗

Professor Graham Medley, a member of SAGE,

<< Updates list … >>

73800 Paul, replying to Paul, 8, #1228 of 1304 🔗

At my surgery the GPs will only consult with you over the phone,not face to face,but for a six month medication review I’ve got to have a face to face with the pharmacist there because she doesn’t do it over the phone !,even when I point out the ridiculousness of this they can’t see it.
Also my consultant at the hospital reviews the meds every six months so I don’t think the surgery needs to but they disagree,the wonderful NHS at it’s best.

73827 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Paul, 7, #1229 of 1304 🔗

I’ve posted down thread, but do you know what the actual legal obligations on healthcare providers are? The Corona Virus Act was revoked almost in full on 4th July and replaced with a very pared down part 2. I have a feeling they are bound by PSED and risk assessments and all the rest, and are actually just making this shit up. Also like schools, I suspect when HandJob says that all face to face apts are suspended and it’s remote care, then that is just guidance and not law. GP refusing to see my elderly dad, I am now on a mission to make those people ‘first do no harm’. If the law doesn’t require them to suspend care, then I am determined they will provide it. I’ve also posted in the Forum on this topic, I think we all need to start writing fact checked letters, and get these idiots doing their jobs. I’ve decided I’m not powerless, and to stave off depression, I’m going to do what I can to make these people apply the actual rules and not the guidance.

73831 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to BecJT, #1230 of 1304 🔗

Is there anything on the laworfiction site?

73846 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Carrie, 6, #1231 of 1304 🔗

No, I’ve emailed them, nothing back. This seems crucial to me, if we can get clear on what the actual requirements are, then it’s fairly straight forward to make them implement it. I’ve been here before with local authorities on transgender guidance, partic in schools, you’d be shocked (or maybe not) on the tripe they implement that is legally non compliant, not risk assessed and not in line with PSED. One terrifying letter is usually all it takes to sufficiently scare them. I know we are the minority, but women on trans were the minority and we’ve managed to get them to not change the GRA, change the rules on transing kids, sort out the schools guidance, and a clarification of the equality act rules on single sex spaces was imminent (and if you think lockdown sceptics are hated, try being a ‘terf’ – see JK Rowling!!). If a small bunch of knackered middle aged women can turn that around, then we can for sure sort this out, with a bit of clarity and planning.

73863 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to BecJT, #1232 of 1304 🔗

Maybe try Robin Tilbrook, whose contact details are usually at the bottom of all Toby’s posts. Or Francis Hoar?

On the subject of lawyers, has anyone heard how Jolyon Maugham’s case is going, the one against the government for giving PPE contracts to their mates and not putting them out to tender?

73915 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to BecJT, 1, #1233 of 1304 🔗

‘We are now accepting new NHS complaints and progressing existing ones.’


73877 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to BecJT, 2, #1234 of 1304 🔗

If the GP, and others in the NHS are refusing to provide proper care to their patients, why are we paying for it.

74394 ▶▶▶ Rick, replying to BecJT, #1235 of 1304 🔗

I posted a few days ago re my appointment at hospital. You need to ask for their clinical risk assessment.Ask if this is an approved treatment pathway. mention you will seek a legal opinion. Also ask if the Dr or whoever you need to see is trained in remote medicine for this condition. My consultation went from telephone to face to face overnight. ask difficult questions and get responses in writing.

73803 swedenborg, 9, #1236 of 1304 🔗

“Indian immensity… India releases 42 millions pills of hydroxychloroquine. If 3m healthcare workers need 2 pills a week on prophylaxis, it leaves room for 1.8 million 10-pill treatments. Enough for 24 days of new cases with the current exponential growth.
 Don’t tell BBC. It is a discredited treatment

73811 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1237 of 1304 🔗

Science is ever changing and we should be prepared to change as new evidence comes to light:

73869 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1238 of 1304 🔗

Since March, ‘science’ has been abolished in place of religion.
We are back to when and where Galilei burst on the scene.

73812 profund chap, replying to profund chap, 11, #1239 of 1304 🔗

Report from local supermarket in London

I was the only non masked person that I saw however visit was brief. Parents even sticking masks on kids under 5.
Girl (masked) on door gave me a big welcome and a big goodbye & have a nice day. Guessing they know the rules regarding discrimination hence smiles all round. Only a couple of dirty looks from fellow shoppers but one of these was because I had mistakenly jumped the queue.
Overall very depressing to see society masked this way.

73866 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to profund chap, 2, #1240 of 1304 🔗

I have an urge to p*ke, whenever I see one of the sheep wearing a mask OUTSIDE.
Which means, that, unfortunately, this is now a constant state for me.
Which, on the bright side, should make and keep me exempt from wearing them.

73879 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1241 of 1304 🔗

True, maskurbation has caught on, big time!

73878 ▶▶ Michael C, replying to profund chap, #1242 of 1304 🔗

Another pleasant day here in SW London. A reasonably busy Wandsworth Common but still no queues for the Sainsburys Local; people are away on holiday admittedly but certainly two weeks ago there would have been a queue of 12 to 15 people. Also popped into a local Co-op, two people in the queue outside but there were a handful of people inside and no one on the door so the two waiting people had only themselves to blame for not getting into the store!!

73904 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to profund chap, 1, #1243 of 1304 🔗

I went to Tescos today and encouragingly saw about 10 non-muzzled. Still vastly outnumbered but a lot more than I saw a few days ago. Also, virtually everyone was putting it on just before entrance and taking it off as soon as they got out.

73830 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1244 of 1304 🔗

Perhaps the Sage group has read this from Luxembourg?
A report from 19th July saying that the second wave is coming with disastrous consequences.Looking today at Worldometer hasn’t reached the estimated 9000 case, cases increasing a few deaths but they had the caveat in the article  that it might be clusters and not community transmission.

73839 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, #1245 of 1304 🔗

Don’t we get to see the SAGE minutes now, thanks to Simon Dolan? Mind you, didn’t they just then start a different committee, whose notes we can’t see?

73851 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Carrie, #1246 of 1304 🔗

They are indexed, referenced and searchable on Law or Fiction I think.

73835 James Leary #KBF, replying to James Leary #KBF, #1247 of 1304 🔗

Safari appears to have taken down this website and Going_Postal. Other sites ok. Is this the start?

73840 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to James Leary #KBF, #1248 of 1304 🔗

Which site do you mean?

73849 ▶▶▶ James Leary #KBF, replying to Carrie, #1249 of 1304 🔗

Lockdownsceptics. Probably just me. Ok on DuckDuck

73847 ▶▶ anon, replying to James Leary #KBF, #1250 of 1304 🔗

safari block websites? wow

73855 James Leary #KBF, 1, #1252 of 1304 🔗

Panic over. This site back up on Safari. It just goes to show what a state this government has created. A couple of months ago I would have laughed myself out of court for even thinking such a thing. Then I heard one of those government ‘don’t listen to them spreading false rumours’ propaganda advert on Talk Radio – and went for it!

73860 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 4, #1253 of 1304 🔗

Anyway, let’s have some good news for a change! Tomorrow sees the launch of Dishy Rishi’s brilliant new

We Scared You So Much We’ve Had to Bribe You To Eat Out To Combat Obesity But If You Live In The North West Don’t Socialise While You Do It To Help Out

scheme. Hurrah!

73888 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Sam Vimes, #1254 of 1304 🔗

I’ve been waiting years for half price McDonalds without having to use a voucher from the backside of a bus ticket.

73946 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to Sam Vimes, #1255 of 1304 🔗

But Only Do It Until September When We Will Close Everything Down Again Because You All Went To Eat Out And Spread The VIrus

73861 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 3, #1256 of 1304 🔗

Well done to any of the Lockdown Sceptics who attended the London anti lockdown protest yesterday – marching down Oxford Street in the road shows we have grown in numbers – much bigger and noisier than 2 weeks ago. Absolutely no media coverage in todays papers unsurprisingly. Film of the event at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncQRUu56np8 . Event at Brighton seafront next week, let’s get the governments attention!

73911 ▶▶ Jonathan, replying to Darryl, 1, #1257 of 1304 🔗

Interesting the way a BLM/Antifa march took place on the same day – which has received high profile media coverage. The “conservative” Daily Jail is bigging them up again today.
It’s much like the way Extinction Rebellion took over London when Brexit was postponed.

73978 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jonathan, 1, #1258 of 1304 🔗

The Sunday Times had a piece about the Brixton BLM reparations march but nothing about our protest. The Times has really become a mouthpiece for the establishment over the last few months no alternative views are allowed – very disappointed.

73862 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, #1259 of 1304 🔗

There is a bit of an elephant in the room here regarding BCG vaccination and its likely beneficial effect on immune systems for respiratory diseases.

The current evidence about BCG vaccination and prevention of acute respiratory infections is of high quality’


Migrants may very well not have had BCG vaccination, or any other.

‘…..some subgroups of migrants, including refugees, asylum seekers, and irregular migrants are particularly vulnerable to infectious diseases and may have worse health outcomes than the host population. In a number of EU/EEA Member States, subgroups of migrant populations are disproportionately affected by infectious diseases such as tuberculosis, HIV, and hepatitis B and C.’


That, I guess, is why BCG trials are concentrating on health workers.

Randomised controlled trials are underway in the Netherlands and Australia to assess whether BCG-Danish reduces the incidence and severity of COVID-19 in health-care workers….’

Lancet 30 April

Covid 19 is clearly a major threat to those without BCG vaccination.

73896 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Tim Bidie, #1260 of 1304 🔗

And to those WITH flu vaccinations…

73864 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 3, #1261 of 1304 🔗

So Boris told us for have a staycation.

But MSM headlines panicking yet again about everyone going to the beach.

So what exactly was the “staycation” supposed to be for?

73867 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to hotrod, 4, #1262 of 1304 🔗

There is no logic to any of his pronouncements!

73893 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Carrie, 1, #1263 of 1304 🔗

Or to those of the MSM, which is logical, as they have become mere propaganda outlets for him.

73868 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to hotrod, 5, #1264 of 1304 🔗

I think he means a stay in your house with a mask on cation

73874 wendyk, replying to wendyk, #1265 of 1304 🔗


Interesting piece on RT.

Apologies if already posted.

73881 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to wendyk, 6, #1266 of 1304 🔗

Read today in The National. “The scenes of people flocking to the beach in Portobello on Friday, on one of the hottest days of the year, was again a cause for concern following a similar deluge of people there earlier in the summer.
And police had to be called to the Edinburgh city beach after reports of around 100 teenagers arriving off a train and congregating in the area.”
OMG, children having fun on a beach and teenagers getting off a train – the end is nigh.

73913 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jane in France, 2, #1267 of 1304 🔗

…. it was so dangerous that infection rates shrank to NOTHING afterwards!

Give me f.ing strength.

73882 wendyk, 1, #1268 of 1304 🔗

People have been so spooked by the state-sanctioned Project Fear that they believe TENS OF MILLIONS have died from Covid-19
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/496796-project-fear-covid-pandemic/ //:0

And another good one

73886 Nobody2020, #1269 of 1304 🔗

A critique on the recent study of children in Georgia becoming infected with SARS-COV-2. My take is that if children can get infected but tend to be asymptomatic and there is little/no evidence that they transmit to others then it also adds weight to the argument that asymptomatics don’t spread the virus.


No conclusion whatsoever can be reached about children and teenagers’ infectiousness. The data is compatible with no child/teenager having infected anyone (i.e. all having been infected by adult staff), or children being equally infective as adults, and anything in between.

73887 JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #1270 of 1304 🔗

Formula 1 driver who tested positive for COVID-19 says ‘I have no symptoms at all”
He says: “As you know I tested positive, I’m extremely sad, one of the saddest days of my career. It shows how vulnerable we are to the virus.

“After Hungary I took a private plane towards Mexico to see my mum for two days because she had a big accident and as soon as she left hospital I was able to see her. I then came back to Europe the same way, with all the protocols in place and I got it, I don’t know from where.

“I have no symptoms at all. I want to thank all the fellow drivers.”

Could this be yet another nosocomial infection? Once again no symptoms, this tends to suggest if you’ve a strong immune system then it isn’t any problem.

73889 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, 5, #1271 of 1304 🔗

or a false positve

73901 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IMoz, #1272 of 1304 🔗

I believe they’re being tested daily, and he had at least two that came back positive before being confirmed.

73906 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, #1273 of 1304 🔗

But tested how, qPCR, IgM, or IgG? For some strange reason there’s a buch of events when qPCR and IgM come back negative but IgG comes back positive

73920 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to IMoz, #1274 of 1304 🔗

It’s PCR testing

73932 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JohnB, 1, #1275 of 1304 🔗

That’s a whole can of worms with cycle threasholds, primers (are they using N1, N2 and E? or are they just relying on IP2/IP4?), this whole qPCR “diagnosis” is just stupid

73910 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to IMoz, 1, #1276 of 1304 🔗

… Or just random bits of RNA floating around.

73891 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 4, #1277 of 1304 🔗

Is there any mileage in asking shops and supermarkets to display the government’s list of exemptions at their entrances along with link to the site where cards can be printed off? They have signs for mask wearing but not for exemptions and not everyone can hear, or even wants to listen to, the tannoy announcements in supermarkets. I’ve found so many people don’t know they could be exempt.

I know that you can get the sunflower symbol at railway stations because we were told this weeks ago when we were asking about maskless travel. Think someone on here also said that Sainsbury’s were selling them too.

I think it would encourage more people to go shopping as, if the comments on the Daily Fail article on reduction in footfall posted here earlier are anything to go by, you would think that shops would be glad to do it. People are avoiding shops like the plague (sorry!)

73912 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Margaret, 3, #1278 of 1304 🔗

I think the problem is that most of these shops – and this is certainly the case in my own town – are loving every opportunity to boss their customers around. I have heard not one expression of regret about imposing all this bollocks on customers.

I suppose also you could view a reduction in footfall as a positive in that there are more of us mask-sceptics around than we thought. After all, if mask-wearing made people more confident, the shops would, in theory, be packed.

73894 Mark, 2, #1279 of 1304 🔗

Republicans were ‘too soft on Facebook, Google’
To be absolutely clear – this is make or break for democracy in its current form. Democracy cannot function effectively by definition if people don’t have practicable and reasonably unbiased access to information, and reasonably unbiased opportunities for expressing and sharing opinions. When information was generally mediated anyway, via newspapers or broadcasters, at least people knew that was the case and could find ways round it. Now the giants actively misrepresent political opinion by suppressing dissenting opinions and information, whether it be racist, conservative or anti-coronapanic, while giving the illusion of direct access to information and opinion.

The blatant censorship of dissent over the coronapanic is highlighting a longstanding problem of manipulation of information by these tech giants and the gatekeepers of information in general.

73895 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1280 of 1304 🔗

Hi all

Please let me know what you think of this idea .

The idea is to borrow from the Extinction Rebellion model and allow autonomous groups to come under one banner to help get traction with the public.


73900 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1281 of 1304 🔗

Hi Lockdown

The link is asking me to login to Wix

73905 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Dave #KBF, #1283 of 1304 🔗


73926 ▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1284 of 1304 🔗

No need for apologies you are doing something positive.

73918 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1286 of 1304 🔗

Communication is very important. with the intention of being helpful can I suggest ‘allowing’ (sorry cannot italicise) would be better changed to ‘gathering’ under one banner. Pedantic perhaps but fundamentally important I believe.

73934 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Basics, 3, #1287 of 1304 🔗

Maybe also some basic guidelines for what is under the banner?

Looking at the march / gathering in London yesterday it seemed to be protesting about various things, peodophilia, 5G, defund The BBC, cv19 etc.

I think we need to remain focus on freedom, those other subjects are important but dilute the core message.

74009 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lockdown Truth, #1288 of 1304 🔗

Like it! Under the stats for an area’s cases, could you add something like ‘Currently you have a 1 in (insert how many) chance of catching Covid 19’. I’m thinking that with a certain proportion already having had the virus, chances of getting it will be even lower..

73897 Basics, replying to Basics, #1289 of 1304 🔗

Sunday View. The Richie Allen show. One hour of excellent comment taking apart the UK msm corona/covid19 propaganda.


Wise thoughts about not becoming depressed by this. Warnings about where this is leading and not to expect others to do what each of us must. A really good hour of a radio show.

73898 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Basics, #1290 of 1304 🔗

Useful to share onwards to any open minds that do watch BBC SKY etc and are starting to question.

73907 Cruella, replying to Cruella, 5, #1291 of 1304 🔗

I’ve just ventured out into the city for the first time to pick up some stuff. The mask wearing is widespread and the signs everywhere saying ‘wearing is caring’ have wound me up so much. The deception is making me furious, the stupidity, the conformity and the abuse of power represented by this behaviour is just too much. This’ll be the last time I try. If the High Street dies then they brought this on themselves by proffering no opposition.

73914 ▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cruella, 2, #1292 of 1304 🔗

I saw a sign the other day in a gift shop of all places: “Wear a mask, save a life” I wanted to throw a brick through the window!

73929 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to kh1485, 4, #1293 of 1304 🔗

What does that even mean? How do you save a life? It makes me so livid. These people’s idiotic compliance has actually lead to many many deaths, that is the sad truth. I know most people are stupid, uneducated morons,this is not news but before this I could choose to be something else, live a different way from the idiotic majority. Now I too must capitulate and do things I know to be ignorant, I have to be like them. I cannot be free to live as I choose and I cannot bear it.

73937 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Cruella, 4, #1294 of 1304 🔗

I thought exactly that the other day. Ordinarily, I could avoid/ignore the gormless throng and just go on living my life as I wanted to. Now, everything is on hold and I’m as mad as hell (despite my piss-takery which is my way of dealing with all the crap they have enforced on us). My hope is that the scales fall from the eyes of the deluded but I won’t hold my breath. My only source of sanity is this site!

73962 ▶▶▶ HoMojo, replying to kh1485, 4, #1295 of 1304 🔗

Don’t drive. Every day save a life.

73965 ▶▶ Old Mum, replying to Cruella, #1296 of 1304 🔗

I’ve also been into local town (SE England) this morning, also disappointed how many people are just going along with it – went to The Body Shop, 2 very sensible (maskless) ladies in there, said business was good initially but has dwindled since mask law introduced – I was the only customer in there. Also went to M&S & Superdrug, no issues but only 1 maskless lady at the self-service till in M&S with a small child. Walked back through town, lots of (maskless) people enjoying drinks/food at outside tables but many wearing them along the street, weaving in & out of those maskless – can people really not see the ridiculousness of this?

73908 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #1297 of 1304 🔗

Hi all

Please let me know what you think of this idea .

The idea is to borrow from the Extinction Rebellion model and allow autonomous groups to come under one banner to help get traction with the public.


73935 ▶▶ thedarkhorse, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1298 of 1304 🔗

I like the bird in cage logo…that’s very clever.
But why Twitter?? Surely don’t you think that Twitter will rapidly take the account down?
I know it’s got more circulation than Gab, but we all know by now that Twitter is ruthless.

74293 ▶▶ DoesDimSyniad, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #1299 of 1304 🔗

I love that you have global aspirations. Melbourne sorely needs such a group, and I suspect plenty of places in the US, not to mention Canada and New Zealand do too.

73909 mjr, replying to mjr, #1300 of 1304 🔗


73942 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to mjr, 1, #1301 of 1304 🔗

The government only have themselves to blame, and it could almost be as if this is their aim.

73940 Dan Clarke, 7, #1302 of 1304 🔗

Solved the Muzzle Puzzle The HSE site says that face masks do NOT provide a recognised CE mark and are NOT manufactured to a recognised standard, do NOT stop spray. SURGICAL MASKS should be worn for a limited time in a medical setting and are to a recognised standard and are resistant to droplets and spray.

73947 Steve Martindale, 5, #1303 of 1304 🔗

Following the earlier discussion about a pamphlet I have jotted down a few initial thoughts much more work to be done but you have to start somewhere. Having regard to the level of fear and apprehension in the general population I have tried to keep it gentle to avoid people immediately discarding it. Anyway the initial thoughts are below, please feel free to take this on board and develop it as you wish.

Covid 19 – another view

When the Covid 19 outbreak started in the UK measures were introduced aimed at flattening the curve, saving lives and protecting the NHS. Well Covid 19 certainly hit hard in the UK but now by August weekly total registered deaths are running below average, hospitals have a relatively low number of Covid cases and are doing fine and all the graphs have been flattened. So, by the criteria outlined by the Prime Minister in March we should by now be breathing a sigh of relief and getting back to normal. But that is not happening, why is that?

Unlike previous flu outbreaks we are now testing for Covid 19 and unsurprisingly, following the widespread outbreak in the UK and rather like searching for grains of sand on the beach, we are finding it but what does this mean? and should we be concerned? There are a number of concerns and questions regarding these tests such that they should at best be advisory and viewed alongside other evidence such as deaths and serious hospital cases. At the present time such an approach would suggest that all is going well albeit that we need to keep a close eye on death rates and hospital admission figures.

Eradication or Containment?
As Covid 19 has been so widespread in the UK, an out and out eradication policy is too costly and too disruptive and damaging. However, the current figures do indicate that we are now capable of living with this disease and having a normal life.One aspect of this disease that is different to normal flu is the way it does cause serious effects in a small proportion of the people who get infected, fortunately, experience with Covid cases means that the medical world is now much better equipped and informed to deal with these effects.

Mother of the Free
The UK has fought devastating wars to ensure we remain free and in the song Rule Britannia we sing about the UK being ‘mother of the free’, hence it has very much gone against the grain to be subject to these draconian lock-down laws. Given the current situation, the time has now come to rescind these laws and rely on guidelines and the good sense ot the UK population and show that this really is the land of freedom where people are capable of thinking for themselves.

The way ahead;
1. Rescind all lock-down laws and issue guidelines for safely living with this virus.
2. Set up a small Independent National Covid Monitoring panel including a statistician and lay people to review all the data, including deaths & hospital admissions and produce a fortnightly Covid bulletin that is not subject to Government oversight.
3. As large public gatherings do seem to pose a particular threat; issue guidelines for such gatherings to operate a reserved area for vulnerable people whilst allowing the rest of the population to freely attend sports events, theatres etc.
4. Schools to return to full normal operation with guidelines issued for children who come into contact with vulnerable older relatives.

73948 Cheezilla, 1, #1304 of 1304 🔗

Latest LS news now online.

So much good stuff still to read here ……..


201 users made 1,288 comments today.

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56Chicot9, 18, 22, 4, 2, 1
55Ruth Sharpe36, 3, 6, 0, 2, 8
54HawkAnalyst4, 4, 3, 0, 0, 3, 15, 7, 7, 7, 4
53Peter Thompson24, 8, 10, 11
53A. Contrarian1, 0, 19, 16, 8, 7, 1, 1, 0
53Barney McGrew6, 2, 8, 10, 15, 0, 4, 1, 6, 1, 0
53Dave #KBF1110, 2, 4, 2, 1, 5, 4, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 8, 0, 0, 3
52swedenborg3, 96, 0, 1, 0, 3, 19, 3, 5, 0, 2, 1
50Bart Simpson1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 13, 3, 0, 23, 1, 1, 5, 1
49John Ballard25, 24
48T. Prince18, 21, 1, 3, 3, 2
47anon20, 8, 4, 4, 2, 2, 2, 3, 0, 0, 2, 0
47IMoz0, 1, 1, 3, 0, 1, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 5, 9, 4, 4, 2, 0, 5, 0, 1
46bluemoon5, 6, 10, 1, 3, 8, 1, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 4, 1, 0, 4
44Edward1112, 12, 3, 6, 0
44Mr Dee4, 11, 3, 2, 0, 3, 3, 2, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 2, 5
41Drawde9274, 17, 4, 12, 4
41Steve Martindale53, 15, 1, 9, 2, 6
41wendyk115, 7, 10, 3, 1, 2, 1, 1, 0
39Paul7, 14, 6, 1, 3, 8
38Polemon21413, 5, 6
38IanE94, 1, 4, 2, 9, 0, 3, 3, 2, 1
38guy1538, 2, 5, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 7, 5, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2
37Jay Berger16, 0, 3, 1, 5, 7, 2, 2, 0, 1
36wendy7, 4, 8, 3, 8, 6
36Tyneside Tigress1, 2, 15, 1, 1, 12, 1, 3
34Ben Shirley10, 24
34arfurmo9, 4, 21
34nfw1, 10, 14, 1, 8
34AngloWelshDragon4, 4, 3, 6, 0, 2, 5, 4, 6
33Mark20, 1, 23, 4, 0, 3
32Lockdown_Lunacy7, 4, 12, 6, 3
32Azoumi8, 11, 2, 2, 2, 7
32Nobody202001, 0, 0, 5, 2, 0, 2, 0, 3, 6, 7, 1, 5, 0
30Mike Collins30
30richard riewer0, 1, 00, 3, 5, 3, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 7, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 3, 5
29Albie17, 4, 6, 2
27mhcp25, 2, 0
26thedarkhorse12, 6, 3, 4, 1
23watashi9, 2, 12
23TJN6, 3, 1, 11, 2, 0
23mjr15, 0, 1, 1, 3, 0, 3, 0
23stefarm03, 1, 14, 3, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0
22OKUK0, 0, 2, 2, 3, 5, 8, 0, 2
21MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG7, 1, 1, 11, 1
20Ethelred the Unready40, 7, 3, 2, 4
20matt2, 2, 1, 5, 7, 3
20Tim Bidie4, 1, 0, 3, 1, 0, 3, 1, 4, 2, 0, 1, 0
19TheBluePill19, 0
19AN other lockdown sceptic26, 3, 6, 2
19Nessimmersion5, 0, 2, 2, 5, 1, 1, 3
18DressageRider4, 1, 7, 3, 2, 1
18karenovirus0, 4, 0, 0, 10, 4
18Sarigan12, 2, 4, 1, 0, 8
17John Ballard17
16Eddie13, 3
16Quernus15, 1
16davews4, 1, 2, 9
16drrobin6, 4, 3, 2, 1
16Lockdown Truth1, 6, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 6
15Jane in France8, 0, 1, 6
15tonyspurs5, 1, 0, 9
15HelzBelz0, 2, 2, 10, 1
14Edward Giles12, 2
14Liam12, 2, 0
14Alec in France3, 3, 0, 4, 3, 1
14JohnB01, 2, 3, 1, 7
13Jonathan Smith7, 5, 1
12Dan Clarke74, 1
12GetaGrip5, 7, 0
12Gillian0, 3, 1, 2, 6
11profund chap11
11Tom Blackburn5, 2, 4
11Chris John6, 0, 1, 4, 0
10RichardJames8, 2, 0
9Cruella5, 4
8Nic3, 5
8PoshPanic0, 8
8Wickwar Bob3, 5
8SweetBabyCheeses7, 0, 1
8Yawnyaman2, 2, 1, 0, 0, 2, 1
8Lms233, 0, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2
7HoMojo3, 4
7Kathryn5, 2
6Commander Jameson6
6Lisa from Toronto6
6Mark II6
6Simon Dutton6
6BJJ1, 5
6JustMe4, 2
6Robert West1, 5
6Winston Smith4, 2
6AllieT2, 2, 2
6Cicatriz3, 1, 2
6Ewan Duffy3, 3, 0
5Andy Riley5
5Keen Cook5
5Martin Spencer0, 5
4Darryl3, 1
4Rabbit2, 2
4Ned of the Hills3, 0, 1
3Andy C3
3Laura Suckling3
3The Spingler3
3Chris Hume0, 3
3djc2, 1
3Lili0, 1, 2, 0
2janis pennance2
2Jonathan Castro2
2Philip Baynes2
2Rick2, 0
1R G1
1Strange Days1
1James Leary #KBF10, 0
1JohnB1, 0, 0
0Cecil B0
0David Grimbleby0
0Mark H0
0Michael C0
0Old Mum0
0Word Immunity0
0Carlo0, 0
0Pete10, 0
0shorthand0, 0
0Tim0, 0
0Fenlander00, 0, 0, 0
0Rosefairy20, 0, 0, 00
-39BoneyKnee-14, -22, -3, -1, 1, 0