Last updated2020-08-03T14:51:31



75299 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #1 of 1354 🔗

Hi all

Still tweaking my idea.


Which do you like MORE?






75318 ▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #2 of 1354 🔗

WE WILL BE FREE works for me

75322 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #3 of 1354 🔗

Wake up be free is what I`d go for

75330 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #4 of 1354 🔗

Be free.

We will BE FREE
Wake up BE FREE


Don’t know where I’m going with that. Be free has a nice ring coukd it be interchangeable. Could groups affiliating ‘pre-tag’ … such and such BE FREE.

Overly complex perhaps.

75374 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to Lockdown Truth, 12, #5 of 1354 🔗

Wake Up is effectively saying “you’re an idiot”
We Will is more inclusive

75459 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to PoshPanic, #6 of 1354 🔗


75381 ▶▶ Sue D, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #7 of 1354 🔗

I prefer the latter. WE WILL BE FREE puts that firmly in the future – which makes it a little too distant for me
A thought, but possibly not suitable for your plans, Live Life. Be Free – or vice versa.

75382 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #8 of 1354 🔗


Right now we are not free, we don’t need to wake up…

75460 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Castendo, 1, #9 of 1354 🔗

I know but the majority do 🙁

76021 ▶▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Lockdown Truth, 11, #10 of 1354 🔗

Good luck trying to reason with the majority… :

76165 ▶▶▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Castendo, #11 of 1354 🔗

Simon Dolan could buy billboards mocking them..
You can’t reason with whom has a plan to kill you…

76467 ▶▶▶▶▶ jak, replying to Castendo, #12 of 1354 🔗

Haha that’s a great saying!

75944 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Castendo, 11, #13 of 1354 🔗

Just adding a tip:

My wife is a state worker and give me the usual: what is the big problem using a mask?
The only way I reasoned with her was pointing out that the muzzles use extendend to everyone, could lead to higyene problems, people can’t afford to buy etc etc… and that she could end breathing a cocktail of virus and bacterias from the sourrounding shopers rotten masks.

worked as a charm…

by the way an Oxford circus led panel bitching people about: ‘When was the last time you changed your muzzle? You naugty little dirty pig’

/ sorry for the english I’m from Lisbon

75414 ▶▶ Cristi.Neagu, replying to Lockdown Truth, 12, #14 of 1354 🔗

Here i am with the novel suggestions. How about: “You’re free. Just wake up.”

75425 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #15 of 1354 🔗

How about just reminding people…


75561 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to SweetBabyCheeses, 2, #16 of 1354 🔗



76032 ▶▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to anon, 1, #17 of 1354 🔗

Now we are talking!

76087 ▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to anon, 1, #18 of 1354 🔗

This is false.
Live from whatever freedom you have NOW – if you value freedom. Just because you cant DO what you want and can blame this on whatever – does not mean you are not alive, conscious and able to both give and receive the meaning that you accept as true.
But while you seek freedom somewhere or somewhen else – you are acting from belief in un-freedom and grievance and reinforcing it.
Look at it another way – how you live and die is within a relam of freedom to experience. You are unique – or you can mask in the herd as if freedom from being singled out is in fact freedom to be who you truly are.
You are also free to feel all that you feel and uncover your part in generating the result.

I appreciate the circumstance is one of great or deep disturbance.

75456 ▶▶ bluefreddy, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #19 of 1354 🔗

Hmm. I like WAKE UP BE FREE. It’s immediate and makes you think. “Who, me? Am I asleep?” . “We will be free” is a bit more “yeah, yeah, OK, and then again, the way things are going, maybe we won’t”.

I really like the caged bird logo, btw.

75464 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to bluefreddy, #20 of 1354 🔗


You get what I mean about the wake up angle.

75909 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to bluefreddy, 1, #21 of 1354 🔗

How about The Who ‘I’m Free and I’m waiting for you to follow me’…

76017 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan, replying to richard riewer, 1, #22 of 1354 🔗

…and freedom tastes, of reality!

76246 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Jonathan, #23 of 1354 🔗

Hurray for The Who, not the WHO.

75508 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #24 of 1354 🔗

I may go with We Will Be Free as even if everyone wakes up we may still have to fight for our freedom!

75524 ▶▶ Catherine Young, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #25 of 1354 🔗

I applaud your efforts. Unfortunately some sheep don’t read anything anti covid but just swallow the propaganda. I’m not sure that many people will identify the artwork and wording as an anti lockdown movement. It’s not clear enough. Sorry!

75539 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lockdown Truth, #26 of 1354 🔗

I’d go for number 2

75577 ▶▶ SD67, replying to Lockdown Truth, #27 of 1354 🔗

I love it, tell me where to sign. Need a London chapter?

75599 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to SD67, #28 of 1354 🔗

Consider yourself signed up! Which part of London are you in? We have SW covered. Email me at mail (at) lockdowntruth.org

75603 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, #29 of 1354 🔗

But that SW isn’t set in stone it could be made more local if you were in SW too. Or you could oversee the whole of London!

75607 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #30 of 1354 🔗


(Why faff about ?)

75621 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to JohnB, #31 of 1354 🔗

It might get confused with the Wham! song…

76090 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Binra, replying to Lockdown Truth, #32 of 1354 🔗

Take these lies and make them true – somehow.

Is the problem.
But seeing it clearly is the release of lies as a basis for truth – and truth of itself is the answer.

76216 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Lockdown Truth, #33 of 1354 🔗

Only by those who have a clue what that is … 🙂

(I’m forever blowing bubbles ?)

75687 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Lockdown Truth, #34 of 1354 🔗

I said on yesterday’s update that you’re nicking this (We will be free) from RDawg who has done invaluable work here and on Twitter (even brave enough to publish a photo of himself with Dellingpole.) Please don’t queer his patch.

75699 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Bella, 1, #35 of 1354 🔗

I have cleared this with RDawg.

So technically your post is very insulting.

75852 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Lockdown Truth, #36 of 1354 🔗

How is it technically insulting? Is that different from other insulting? And how would I know you’d cleared it with him? Maybe, technically, you’ve just thrown a tantrum

75968 ▶▶▶▶▶ RDawg, replying to Bella, 7, #37 of 1354 🔗

Hold up guys. Last thing I want is an argument. Remember, we are all on the same side 😉

Bella, thank you for pointing this out and for sticking up for me. Lockdown did contact me yesterday and ask if we could join forces. We have come to a provisional agreement.

Personally I’m not too concerned about the name being used elsewhere/duplicates. My endgame has always been to get the message out by as many means as possible in order to instigate change. I don’t have the means to set up a website and put as much time in as I’d like. I’ve also (regrettably) had to remove all posts with my photo from my Twitter profile because I was getting a lot of personal abuse.

Funnily enough I was actually thinking about changing the name of my Twitter profile anyway. I have a few ideas up my sleeve…

75904 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lockdown Truth, #38 of 1354 🔗

XTC recorded a song in the 80s titled ‘Wake Up’.

75917 ▶▶ Kira Argounova, replying to Lockdown Truth, #39 of 1354 🔗



75950 ▶▶ RDawg, replying to Lockdown Truth, #40 of 1354 🔗

I still quite like “Our Lives, Our Futures” or “Lives B4 Lies”.

Really hard to get a catchy name that everyone likes.

My favourite one so far has been “Us For Them” which is the schools campaign to prevent masks being made mandatory for pupils.

Go with your gut/ instincts.

76206 ▶▶▶ Jane, replying to RDawg, #41 of 1354 🔗

How about “Take Back Your Freedom!”

76221 ▶▶ TyLean, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #42 of 1354 🔗

WAKE UP BE FREE…. if it offends them and makes them feel like fucking morons, good. They should feel like fucking morons.

76325 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Lockdown Truth, #43 of 1354 🔗

Reject fear
chose freedom
live life

76327 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 1, #44 of 1354 🔗

Fear is the virus

76533 ▶▶ Country Mumkin, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #45 of 1354 🔗

Hi there

I’ve just been on your site for the first time. So sorry it’s taken this long.

I love the bird in the cage. A great symbol (and i do a bit of semiotics so I do feel this is VERY good). Badges are GREAT idea. A lovely subtle way to help identify each other.

‘Be free’ is great. It’s a state of mind and a call to action. That is, “we are free and we will continue to be free and we won’t (and neither should you) accept an alternative”.

‘wake up ‘. It feels patronising. It says ‘I’m right and you’re wrong’. It reminds me of the woke liberal brigade. It invites fighting and staying strong in our subjective corners, rather than focusing on facts, figures and the basics.

‘We will be free’ sounds like a fight, again with tones of right/wrong.

I will join. Again sorry for delay in my support. A lot going on (just lost mum and have small child at home whilst trying to work).


76681 ▶▶ Max, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #46 of 1354 🔗

Sorry but this entire slogan is nonsensical to anyone other than a committed lockdown sceptic – the whole point is that covid enthusiasts think they ARE free and any restrictions are temporary and entirely justified. They could tout a similar slogan against sceptics – WAKE UP, BE RESPONSIBLE. How would you feel if you read that? That being a sceptic makes you irresponsible?
By all means go ahead if you believe pinning your colours to a tribal mast is what you want to achieve – but if it’s changing hearts and minds then something less confrontational is much more likely to succeed.

76978 ▶▶ RichardJames, replying to Lockdown Truth, #47 of 1354 🔗

You mustn’t use the future tense, because tomorrow never comes. In order to manifest a desire you have to put the desire into the present, so I would say; “WE ARE NOT SLAVES; WE ARE FREE.”

Just my thoughts.

75314 mjr, replying to mjr, 9, #49 of 1354 🔗

Toby … Correction on your 4 Yorkshiremen. That photo is from “At Last the 1948 Show” which predates Monty Python. Cleese Chapman, Feldman and Brooke Taylor .
We Yorkshiremen take our cultural references seriously

75385 ▶▶ Keen Cook, replying to mjr, 1, #50 of 1354 🔗

Aye up – younger then as well!

75474 ▶▶▶ Nigel Sherratt, replying to Keen Cook, 2, #51 of 1354 🔗

Ah, but I was so much older then
I’m younger than that now

76344 ▶▶ Locked down and out, replying to mjr, #52 of 1354 🔗

I also believe it was written by the late great Tim Brooke-Taylor and therefore is totally unrelated to Monty Python.

75320 NickR, replying to NickR, 32, #53 of 1354 🔗

The Winton Centre for Maths at Cambridge University published some interesting data recently. Amongst other things it showed that up until July 3rd 15 people under the age of 19 had died with the coronavirus but also that in 2014/15 116 people under 19 had died of flu.
The new test that can identify the presence of coronavirus also can detect the presence of flu virus.
What are the odds that come this winter we’ll have the prospect of schools being closed and towns lockeddown because there’s a spike in flu virus?
In 2017/18 there were 50,000 excess deaths due, mainly, to flu. In Leicester the city was shut down, I don’t believe there was any increase in hospital admissions, no increase in deaths, if it was OK to shut a city down in those circumstances how much more likely for flu? Where does it end?

75352 ▶▶ Julian, replying to NickR, 35, #54 of 1354 🔗

Large portions of the human race, predominantly in rich countries, seem to have an utterly bizarre idea of what life is all about
I want nothing to do with them any more

75435 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Julian, 14, #55 of 1354 🔗

I agree. The Romans talked of supplying the masses with “bread and circuses” to keep them happy and docile. Bread and circuses has now become Deliveroo and Netflix – but the truth of that phrase has never been more apparent.

75634 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Gossamer, 4, #56 of 1354 🔗

And will have the same ultimate end. We even have a version of barbarians at the gates!

75718 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to Nick Rose, 3, #57 of 1354 🔗

It’s alright – I saw a Roman Centurion marching through Chester today – he’ll sort them out. He was wearing a facemask – which I don’t think is entirely historically accurate.

76343 ▶▶▶ petgor, replying to Julian, #58 of 1354 🔗

Some people can be described as “enjoying I’ll health”. More and more I have the feeling that the majority enjoy are enjoying their paranoia.

75451 ▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to NickR, 8, #59 of 1354 🔗

I agree Nick. I’m really dreading next winter. People are going to be paranoid about catching anything, let alone COVID. Anyone with the sniffles will be told to isolate until spring. 2022.

76340 ▶▶ petgor, replying to NickR, 1, #60 of 1354 🔗

That’s the problem. Died ‘with’ Covid, not ‘of’ Covid.

75324 mjr, 7, #61 of 1354 🔗

Toby – re the story above about FoS and Academic Freedom Bill. Wouldn’t it be nice if it was made law that any “Diversity” role appointee in FE (or ideally in any institution) was also made responsible for upholding the concept of “diversity of thought” .. i.e Freedom of Speech within that institution. Would be fun to see them tying each other and themselves in knots (i.e the old woke “what do we do if a muslim is not nice to a gay person” dilemma)

75326 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 15, #62 of 1354 🔗

That calendar in Toby’s blog says it all, we have lost months of freedom.

75334 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #63 of 1354 🔗

And there’s plenty more to come!

75366 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to IanE, 1, #64 of 1354 🔗


75349 Tyneside Tigress, 85, #65 of 1354 🔗

Patrick O’Flynn article in The Telegraph:


This is the most popular comment on the article – I especially like the closing sentences:

‘8 people died of Covid this weekend, shall I say that again 8 people, even then half of them probably really died from one of those reasons mentioned above. And the Government is seriously considering incarcerating half the population for this when more people are dying through lack of any treatment from the NHS, which has closed down to focus on Covid!
Get a grip and get this country working again. And the Government can stick their germ ridden face rags where the sun doesn’t shine.’

75351 Edward, replying to Edward, 59, #66 of 1354 🔗

I find the situation in Australia really worrying. Previously we’ve been able to say, Spain never totally got rid of fascism, and most countries on the European continent have a Napoleonic legal system, etc etc. But I always thought Australia had a tradition of freedom largely derived from the UK. So if oppressive authoritarian dictatorship can take over there, the same could happen here. The fundamental problem seems to be that most of the population accept or even welcome this as a necessary reaction to the perceived problem of Covid-19. Analogies with Nazi Germany are often overdone, but most Germans welcomed Hitler as a strong leader whom they saw as the man to deal with the problems of that time. We know how that worked out.

75357 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Edward, 34, #67 of 1354 🔗

Australia does indeed look particularly scary. I have been watching the dissent into authoritarianism on “The Crowhouse” channel. I didn’t think the Australians would go along with this but they have completely brought into the new plague narrative, then again I didn’t think the UK would either!

75363 ▶▶▶ Sue D, replying to Darryl, 16, #68 of 1354 🔗

Agreed. I thought Australians wouldn’t put up with this nonsense. Quite shocked.

75401 ▶▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Sue D, 9, #69 of 1354 🔗

Australia has been uber-woke for quite a while, though.

75613 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, 2, #70 of 1354 🔗

Some areas are at the forefront of mandating vaccines.

75419 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Darryl, 22, #71 of 1354 🔗

I am completely taken aback at how completely the Australians have bought into the narrative (I am from Melbourne myself) The fact that we have meekly accepted the most draconian of all lockdowns is all the more surprising, considering we have been one of the least affected countries. I can’t help but wonder if the fact that we are so compliant has made us a sort of “test case ” for how far this can go.

76055 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to nat, 4, #72 of 1354 🔗

Storm Government House and forcefully remove all the deplorables inside it.

76182 ▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to nat, 3, #73 of 1354 🔗

Nat if you read this, do you know of any groups of lockdown skeptics in Australia? I’m from Australia too and feel very isolated by the madness of all this.

76195 ▶▶▶▶▶ Trish, replying to Sally, 1, #74 of 1354 🔗

Not in Australia but at least Down Under – in NZ. Happy to make contact.

76207 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Trish, 2, #75 of 1354 🔗

Hi Trish. I’d love to have some interaction with anyone down in this part of the planet who objects to what is going on. Do you know of any online places where people like us congregate? There are a few Australians on Off-Guardian, but generally it seems like the number of skeptics in Australia is really tiny. My impression of New Zealand is that it’s the same.

76226 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Trish, replying to Sally, 2, #76 of 1354 🔗

Find me on a FB group I have started up called NZers Border Strategies Discussion Group. We can make contact that way and go from there. If you don’t use FB we can think of another way.

76235 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to Trish, 1, #77 of 1354 🔗

Oh good for you taking action on that front. I’m not on FB, though.

76250 ▶▶▶▶▶ nat, replying to Sally, 2, #78 of 1354 🔗

Unfortunately I don’t Sally. I haven’t seen any dissent in the media either but will have a careful look and post here if I find anything. Today I am going to be post comments under articles about the Victoria infection rates, about the increase in testing.

76252 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Sally, replying to nat, 1, #79 of 1354 🔗

Thanks for replying, Nat. Nice to have some Antipodean input here, anyway. Good luck with everything going on in Victoria. I’m not in Victoria, but I fear that the rest of the country will eventually endure what you’re experiencing. The constant eradication talk is just a tragic delusion.

76766 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to nat, 1, #80 of 1354 🔗

/r/lockdownskeptics on Reddit. There isn’t any dissent in Aus media apart from SkyNews but that’s not exactly a respected source of news. I commented on articles as well but they won’t listen.

76754 ▶▶▶▶▶ Caramel, replying to Sally, 1, #81 of 1354 🔗

So am I. Only on Reddit /r/lockdownskeptics

75380 ▶▶ stewart, replying to Edward, 22, #82 of 1354 🔗

I think history has conveniently eroded the extent to which fascism had sympathy here in Britain in the 30s and how seriously a deal with Hitler was considered. I wouldn’t underestimate the strength of “law and order” sentiment in this country. Proof is in the many little commisars around only to eager to remind you of the rules.

75959 ▶▶▶ Edward, replying to stewart, 2, #83 of 1354 🔗

Yes, I think it was almost mainstream in the 1930s to think “In these troublesome times we need a strong leader”. In the UK some people took that view but with our traditionally irreverent attitudes to people in power Oswald Mosley was seen as a somewhat ridiculous figure and never came close to serious political power. Maybe the same attitude to Johnson will save us. A deal with Hitler was undoubtedly considered in high places and might have happened if he had been less crazy. (Questions for debate: Was Hitler clinically insane? Is Johnson clinically insane?)

75389 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Edward, 22, #84 of 1354 🔗

The supposedly liberal and freedom valuing Anglo-Saxon countries are the real, huge disappointment in this whole saga.

75397 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jay Berger, 17, #85 of 1354 🔗

I was amazed by all the articles last week criticising Belarus (agitating for regime change) – I know the leadership isn’t ideal – but it has been one of the most free countries in the Europe this year. The West can hardly attack other countries on civil liberties any more, the US ‘land of the free’ has been particularly dreadful.

75422 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Darryl, 22, #86 of 1354 🔗

I don’t know much about Belarus and my gut feel is that I wouldn’t like it there much, and I used to love England very deeply, but honestly right now very little else matters to me, because our govt and many citizens have utterly lost the plot and want to live some alien form of life that isn’t for me

75618 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Darryl, #87 of 1354 🔗

The US of A is what it says, a collection of 50-odd different governments.

76208 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jane, replying to JohnB, 2, #88 of 1354 🔗

The legal makeup of the country is a federation of states.
That is one reason why the covid=related railing against Trump is basically pointless.
What Trump should do is fire Fauci and hire someone sensible to weigh all the science and initiate an adult debate in the media about exactly what different statistics, studies on mask effectiveness, studies on different medications actually mean.

But the media are owned by factions who like things just as they are.
The mainstream media are happy spreading the panic narrative.

75673 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Edward, 3, #89 of 1354 🔗

If anyone has noticed its ‘free’ western nations where this is happening. I don’t know of any country (I’m not including China) outside the ‘free’ west where governments are still behaving like this. When will people understand that THEY have the power of numbers to overwhelm their tinpot would be dictators?

75702 ▶▶▶ G M, replying to Lili, 5, #90 of 1354 🔗

Interesting to note that China never locked down as a country (just the one province, though very stringently), and that it no longer requires masks in places like cinemas in its bid to return to normality!

76254 ▶▶▶▶ Digital Nomad, replying to G M, 2, #91 of 1354 🔗

FAR more interesting to note that no province outside Hubei got the ‘virus’ in meaningful numbers at any point this year.

75769 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Lili, 5, #92 of 1354 🔗

Those ‘free’ nations are the main target of this operation.
What I see here (Portugal) is that all the ‘establishment’ parties are in the lockdown muzzles etc narrative… the media was bought again with fresh 13 mil state advertizing money, the pensions were raised, public workers got a raise too.
In my own opinion they can’t do otherwise or the IMFs ECBs would stop lending with bullshit interest rates; to cut it short all this clown act is above prime ministers paygrade.

Remember the stock markets implosion some days before european lockdowns and your pound also took a beating before Boris did some 180º turn…

This is all way much to bad for most people to accept what is happening…

( I follow UK close because I have two kids working and studying in London)

75356 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 10, #93 of 1354 🔗

Boris J and his white associates advised by the white SAGE committee with input from middle aged white academics (Fergusson) instituted a lockdown which specifically killed blacks and minorities and saved the high-income white neighbourhood.
Do you think this could be true and that it should be in the papers with this headline?
Perhaps it should, look at this graph
This is a graph to be shown for PC minded . Lockdown in Ontario reduces C-19 for rich white areas
“Lockdown *instantly* flattened the curve for Toronto richest/whitest areas. For poorest/most racialized (top 2 lines), it kept rising.”
Intuitively it makes sense. Minorities are over represented in the essential services but most importantly live in small spaces in a multi-generational households.C-19 spreads best in household. Can you think of a better way for a virus to spread if you lock in these households together for weeks in a lockdown? I can’t.
 We will of course not see these headlines and MSM will stop all this information. But how long can Labour keep silent about the Public Health Disaster of the lockdowns?

75392 ▶▶ Julian, replying to swedenborg, 6, #94 of 1354 🔗

I normally disapprove of politicians abusing race to gain political advantage, but there may be something in this, and even if there isn’t, anything that hurts our enemies works for me right now.

75433 ▶▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Julian, 1, #95 of 1354 🔗

Agree but this was irony but the facts are interesting

75393 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 1, #96 of 1354 🔗

Doesn’t quite fit with them at the same time facilitating the Channel migrant taxi service..

75399 ▶▶ PoshPanic, replying to swedenborg, 7, #97 of 1354 🔗

Can you think of a better way for a virus to spread if you lock in these households together for weeks in a lockdown? I can’t.

I tried pointing this out to friends at the start of lockdown, as well as the other problems it would cause. 6 months later and I feel I may have brain damage from banging my head against the wall.

75360 Sue D, 26, #98 of 1354 🔗

I’m Cornish (Newquay area) and did my weekly shop at Aldi last week. Not many people in the store, one other without a mask and no glares or reaction from the mask wearers. I won’t use Morrisons or Sainsbury’s as I’ve been ticked off by both of them for minor infractions of the ‘rules’ before masks came in!

I haven’t been in the centre of town but am happy to report (from what I’ve heard) that most people are ignoring all the social distancing rules – much to my sister’s disgust!.

75362 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 42, #99 of 1354 🔗

Can’t read the Christopher Snowden article above about this being a rerun of the Brexit wars as it’s behind a paywall, but it has struck me that, in many ways, the Brexit Debate was similar to what we are going through now. I voted leave. I was living in Spain at the time and sent off for a postal vote. Whenever I met with friends or came to the U.K. for a visit, it was very difficult to be a Brexiteer. It was like admitting that you were an ardent racist or child molester. You were shouted down immediately and had to defend yourself vigorously. Then came the referendum and all the closet Brexiteers came out of their closets to vote leave. No-one was more surprised than me that leave won.

I just hope that something similar happens this time with Coronavirus and that all the lockdown sceptics are just waiting for a chance to emerge maskless from their closets and surprise me again-hopefully sooner rather than later. Am I being too optimistic?

75378 ▶▶ ambwozere, replying to Margaret, 16, #100 of 1354 🔗

I keep hoping the same Margaret. I experienced this with Brexit too, everyone apart from my office colleagues were for staying in the EU, everything posted on social media was about what a disaster it would be if we left etc etc.

And the same is happening with this. What worries me with this is how it’s really dividing people up and due to the fear the government has put out we don’t need divisions, ideally we need unity. But as everyone for lockdowns, masks, social distancing etc I can’t see an easy end to this.

75387 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Margaret, 21, #101 of 1354 🔗

I think it’s much much worse than Brexit. The stakes are way higher, and it’s global. And the fear factor is higher because people think their lives are at risk.

Ideally we’d all stay and fight. If you can’t stomach that, I guess leaving the country for somewhere saner is an option, if you’re able. The third option is to take a happy pill and forget about it all, but I don’t think there’s a pill strong enough to make me think it’s not all madness.

75413 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Julian, 7, #102 of 1354 🔗

Yep, the single worst ‘enemy’ we face is the fear of instant death posessed by the sheep. Although it’s completely misguided, it’s real to them, and that’s a powerful motivator.

75420 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #103 of 1354 🔗

I am pretty convinced there are a LOT of people who really aren’t personally scared now, if they ever were, but they think it’s all going to go away soon and that there’s some threat than requires an extraordinary response – they just don’t connect stuff because they are apathetic and well fed

75409 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Margaret, 8, #104 of 1354 🔗

Sadly, the Leave voters were, and are still being, ignored. Rather like real science is just now.

76224 ▶▶▶ TyLean, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #105 of 1354 🔗

I was a staunch Remainer…. not ignoring Leavers anymore. In fact, if we had to vote again, I am really uncertain whether I would vote Leave or Remain.

75671 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Margaret, 3, #106 of 1354 🔗

I think this will be a slower awakening. But I believe it will come.

76381 ▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Margaret, 1, #107 of 1354 🔗

Exactly the same here.

The expat remainers, the vast majority, almost to a (wo)man, are the new muzzle fanatics.

Even mild expression of a contrary view risks ostracism.

But they are certain all will be back to normal “When we get The Vaccine”.

75373 nat, replying to nat, 18, #108 of 1354 🔗

I didn’t consider in increase new cases of coronavirus in Melbourne could be is due to a corresponding increase in testing – thank you for that thought Toby.
I can’t help but think that means the Government has the ability can increase the number of cases at whim to keep the public compliant. If that’s the case, it is certainly working. The response to the number of daily deaths is a source of panic and despair for everyone I know, and they are terrified to leave their homes for even the time allowed for exercise.
“There were seven deaths yesterday. Seven !”
I wonder what they think kept funeral parlours busy in pre – covid times ?

75377 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to nat, 3, #109 of 1354 🔗

All over 70 and I don’t know what their comorbidities were if any.

Where do you usually get your “news”?

75405 ▶▶▶ nat, replying to Lockdown Truth, 4, #110 of 1354 🔗

Less and less from the mainstream media !

75722 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to nat, #111 of 1354 🔗

That’s better and better for your sanity! Just look what listening to the MSM does to your (and our) compatriots.

75383 ▶▶ Julian, replying to nat, 15, #112 of 1354 🔗

that means the Government has the ability can increase the number of cases at whim to keep the public compliant” Absolutely. That is exactly what our and other governments are doing. Even the BBC’s Newsnight said this (not the compliance bit, but the rest).

75390 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, #113 of 1354 🔗

And we now know they’re harvesting DNA at the same time and likely making a database to give to Palantir..

76217 ▶▶ Wuzzo, replying to nat, #114 of 1354 🔗

Just a reminder that it’s flu season in Australia now…

75375 kh1485, replying to kh1485, 28, #115 of 1354 🔗

Today’s return from the contrarian cafe in deepest rural Essex:

Shit-scared landlord who wants us to put our two quarters’ rent cheques in the meter cupboard so as not to get anywhere near our disease-ridden bodies – 1:

Man down: Once sceptical window cleaner now masked up, cleaning windows outside – 1

Manky, stained facial-jockstrap left behind for me to pick up (yuk) – 1

People arse-aching about there being a reduced menu: a merciful 0

Great customer who heard me having a bit of a rant, smiling and saying “this is how revolutions started – in coffee shops” – a fab 1.

(Just another point, apologies to those who responded to my rant yesterday. I couldn’t reply because my blasted internet supplier has cut my line at home so I can’t access the internet later in the evening and by the time I get into work the comments are so numerous that my computer’s ctrl F key can’t cope – I only saw your responses just now by chance, so thanks for the responses BecJT, Bart and Cheezilla, they really cheered me up!)

75558 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 2, #116 of 1354 🔗

Great to hear from you.

Perhaps investing in a litter picker to pick up any muzzles that are left would be in order. You can ostentatiously use it to pick up said muzzle in front of customers or those passing by. Hopefully they would get the hint.

75620 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #117 of 1354 🔗

Pick it up with tongs and hand it back to them.

75685 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to annie, 8, #118 of 1354 🔗

Or post them all to Boris, care of Clowning Street.

75789 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Lili, 5, #119 of 1354 🔗

That would be a worthwhile campaign for someone to push: pick up discarded face nappies and post them to Downing St.

75887 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark, 3, #120 of 1354 🔗

I can do that, in fact, its very tempting.

75936 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bart Simpson, 3, #121 of 1354 🔗

Be great if it were to catch on widely….

75994 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Mark, 2, #122 of 1354 🔗

I suggested that two weeks ago. Put them all in a big box and deliver them with a garbage truck.

75973 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Lili, 4, #123 of 1354 🔗

Clowning street – love it!

75386 CarrieAH, 3, #124 of 1354 🔗


75388 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #125 of 1354 🔗

Just had a FOI request back from a local council and it is very interesting.

Either they have deliberately given me incorrect answers or do not know the relevant legislation or are trying o shirk responsibility and bounce it back to central Government.

The question was about them not using the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 to enforce business restrictions but verbally browbeating small business owners into thinking the verbal discussions on guidelines was all.

Their answers:

1. The name of the “proper person” that is designated for this role.
Public Health England (PHE) not the Local Authority .

In the act it keeps mentioning “proper person”a nd local authorities”, not PHE. E.g.:

Authorities administering Act (1)
Subject to subsection (4) below, it shall be the duty of each of the following authorities—
a district council,
a London borough council,
the Common Council of the City of London, and
the Sub-Treasurer of the Inner Temple and the Under Treasurer of the Middle Temple,

to carry this Act into execution in their district.

In this Act, except where it is otherwise expressly provided, ” local authority ” means an authority mentioned in subsection (1) above.

2. How many notices has this person issued.
3. The names of the Justices of the Peace who countersigned the notices.
In response to questions 2 and 3; we do not hold this information as PHE is the proper

Incorrect, it is there responsibility of the “local authority”, not PHE.

e.g. On the application of the proper officer of the local authority for any district

4. The actual reliable and accurate test used to confirm the individual or premises is infected or
contaminated with the disease as stated.
Antigen PCR test.

I can find PCR tests and I can find antigen test on an internet search, not an antigen PCR test so I think they have them wrong test name/description.

I think a letter back to them is in order s they are wrong on nearly every count.

75415 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 13, #126 of 1354 🔗

Just fired this off to the council:

Thank you for the response to the FOI request TWC-55243 but your answers are incorrect and are not in line with the legislation so the Council needs to address this serious matter.

Question 1:

Q – The name of the “proper person” that is designated for this role.

A – Public Health England (PHE) not the Local Authority .

Under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 that the original question from myself was in relation to, Public Health England is NOT responsible for enforcement, it clearly states in many places “The local authority shall give notice” not Public Health England or “On the application of the proper officer of the local authority for any district”

Questions 2 and 3 have the same answer.

Q – How many notices has this person issued.
Q – The names of the Justices of the Peace who countersigned the notices.

A – In response to questions 2 and 3; we do not hold this information as PHE is the proper officer.

Under the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 that the original question from myself was in relation to Public Health England is NOT responsible for enforcement, it clearly states:

PART I Administrative Provisions General administration 1Authorities administering Act(1)
Subject to subsection (4) below, it shall be the duty of each of the following authorities—
a district council,
a London borough council,
the Common Council of the City of London, and
the Sub-Treasurer of the Inner Temple and the Under Treasurer of the Middle Temple,

to carry this Act into execution in their district.

In this Act, except where it is otherwise expressly provided, ” local authority ” means an authority mentioned in subsection (1) above.

It also states in more than one place “If a justice of the peace (acting, if he deems it necessary, ex parte) is satisfied, on a written certificate issued by a registered medical practitioner nominated by the local authority for a district”.

Question 4:

Q – The actual reliable and accurate test used to confirm the individual or premises is infected or contaminated with the disease as stated.

A – Antigen PCR test.

I can not find anything called an Antigen PCR test doing internet searches. There is a test called a PCR test and a test called an Antigen test and they are different so you have given me an answer that states you use a test that in effect cannot be proved to exist using the name you have called it.

FYI: https://mdmedicalgroup.us/2020/06/29/pcr-test-vs-antigen-test/

So which test do you use?

It is clear that the onus for enforcing the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 and following all protocls as required for isolating individuals, closing or restricting premises, serving notices and paying compensation does not reside with Public Health England but quite clearly with “local authorities”.

Can you please explain your original answers with the above in mind?

I look forward to your reply with clarifications.

75431 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #127 of 1354 🔗


75602 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #128 of 1354 🔗

This is gold, would you also send this to Toby and post it in the forum? I think what we need to do is collate all these, so when we have the accurate information we can create templates, then everyone here, just fires a letter off to their local council, or CCG or whoever, and we start making a nuisance of ourselves. I think you are right and the gov kicked it back to the local authority (Simon Dolan had a hair dresser shared on twitter, who did this and got them to admit they had no authority to enforce anything and she’s trading with no restrictions). Sounds boring, but letter writing really changes things. I’m the person who asked about NHS appointments today in the update, I really am determined to get to the bottom of where the suspension of local NHS medical apts is coming from, and who is accountable.

75632 ▶▶▶ DressageRider, replying to BecJT, 1, #129 of 1354 🔗

Bec, I don’t know whether this is helpful or not, but the other day I had a letter from my GP Practice which said that they wanted to let me know of a service they are providing with “SDHC” – our local “GP Federation”. “Livi is a video GP mobile app that is available on the NHS to patients of this practice” it goes on about how to get the app and what it does which is apparently an “easy way to get a same-day NHS GP appointment” (note it doesn’t say you see your own GP) and enables seeing the GP by video. Then it ends with “If you prefer to book an appointment directly with the practice you can still contact us through all the normal channels”. (phew, that’s ok then).

So, it seems that maybe the GPs are all interpreting things differently. I havent tried to make a face to face appointment as I don’t need one, so to be honest I am not sure whether that would be as normal or not.

75654 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to DressageRider, #130 of 1354 🔗

Thanks, yes that’s what I’m trying to find out, where does the buck stop and who is responsible for risk assessing and equality impact assessing these services before they decide on service structure. It seems mad to me that doctors just stop offering proper appointments, that surely means someone somewhere did a risk assessment and decided the risk of covid was so grave, the attendant drop in quality and breadth of services was justified. If that falls on the individual GP (it surely must???) then it’s quite simple to terrify them into offering proper services, once we’ve got our facts straight.

75691 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to BecJT, #131 of 1354 🔗

Stephen at Law or Fiction isn’t very interested in the law of risk assessment

75696 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, #132 of 1354 🔗

*IS very interested

Why does spellchecker change is to isn’t? Reversing the meaning of the sentence?!!

It just changed does to doesn’t as well!!

75880 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Lockdown Truth, #133 of 1354 🔗

haha, I’ve emailed them, no reply yet, but I put a comment on their risk assessment piece and it was awaiting moderation, and when I looked today it’s removed. So dunno, maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree?

76002 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lockdown Truth, #134 of 1354 🔗

Disable it. Look in a dictionary instead.

75924 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to DressageRider, 2, #135 of 1354 🔗

This REAKS of a Matt Handjob conflict of interest.

Isn’t he involved with lots of health apps financially?

Wouldn’t it be great for him to get an NHS contract for one or more of them?

75971 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 1, #136 of 1354 🔗

Needs investigating – he cannot be impartial if he has financial interests in all developments of new tech like apps..

76004 ▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Farinances, #137 of 1354 🔗

Conflict of interest.

76160 ▶▶▶ TJS123, replying to BecJT, 5, #138 of 1354 🔗

From within, it’s apparent that the NHS management is trying to stop me seeing patients by not giving me clinic rooms and by trying to force phone appointments only. You can’t safely medically assess and diagnose a patient over the phone, assuming they are even able to talk and understand, and this applies perhaps even more so in a hospital setting where patients have been referred by their GP’s for specialist assessment. In terms of accountability, you can bet any fallout will come to me and not the management. I’m failing to understand why they want to reduce the quality of the service, and stop previously admired services such as joint clinics between professionals for example. It is heartbreaking, and patients will come to harm. I have even resorted to seeing urgent patients in the car park or corridors, and am becoming unpopular for questioning the “direction of travel”.

75616 ▶▶ Tim, replying to Awkward Git, #139 of 1354 🔗

Just fyi, “antigen PCR test” is the (scientifically inaccurate) name that officials seem to have settled on to describe the standard Covid-19 tests (more accurately qPCR carried out on reverse-transcribed viral RNA).
The term antigen seems to have been added to distinguish the tests from antibody tests, but in this case it is incorrect as viral RNA does not induce an immune response (bacterial DNA can, so could be classed as an antigen).

75391 CarrieAH, 18, #140 of 1354 🔗

Amazon Prime Video have a sense of humour! They say you can either immerse yourself in a dystopian nightmare OR watch The Handmaid’s Tale 😂

75394 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 7, #141 of 1354 🔗

Just out Int Journal of Inf Dis
 “School closure carried out in Japan did not show any mitigating effect on the transmission of novel coronavirus infection.

75458 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to swedenborg, 2, #142 of 1354 🔗

That’ll be ignored then.

76328 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Lockdown Truth, #143 of 1354 🔗

Japan will have to join Sweden on the naughty step

75396 simon crisp, replying to simon crisp, 21, #144 of 1354 🔗

Does anybody have any experience or knowledge of how this lunacy impinges on the freedoms of people with Learning Disabilities please? My profoundly autistic, non verbal son, lives in a residential home about 23 miles from me. He enjoyed coming home once a week to myself or his mother. For nearly the last 4 months he has been denied that. When I asked to start bringing him home again was told to make do with Skype or if I insisted he would have to self quarantine in his bedroom for 2 weeks…!! My MP is tentatively involved and the Local Public Health seemingly have no issues. We live in Lincolnshire by the way, which has had 10 deaths I believe. Before I go ballistic I just want to make sure that I had all angles covered. All the best and good luck to everyone

75416 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to simon crisp, 8, #145 of 1354 🔗

I have nothing to help you with your problem unfortunately, I just wanted to send you good luck for a happy outcome.

75432 ▶▶ SweetBabyCheeses, replying to simon crisp, 10, #146 of 1354 🔗

That’s appalling. Under Human Rights legislation don’t we all have an entitlement to a private and family life? Would seem to me that your son is being denied that.
Even some convicted criminals in prison are allowed to have visitors again.

75476 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to simon crisp, 4, #147 of 1354 🔗

I would email the solicitor that Toby has on the bottom of each post (if you look at it without comments enabled), I think some of this falls on the CQC? I am the person who asked the question on NHS apts in today’s update, my quest is similar to yours in that I want to know on what legal basis they’ve mothballed most NHS services, and what are the PSED (equality impact assessments) and Risk assessment obligations and on whom do they fall (ie individual services, or does the buck stop further up or both). I was reading the other day that all they said about visits not being allowed had no legal basis, I suspect with all of it, it’s on really shaky ground. I’d ask a solicitor, I have a strong feeling in my bones all this is just guidance, and organisations and institutions are over reaching, and are not within their rights to do that as it’s not law.

75504 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, 3, #148 of 1354 🔗

PS this is interesting, notice what they say about the legal basis of risk http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/risk-assessments-an-important-chink-in-the-lockdown-armour/

it does not in law constitute a ‘serious and imminent danger’” – I don’t know who is responsible currently for risk assessing your son’s situation, one would think it would be the home, but if they’ve risk assessed it that the risk to his welfare by locking him up is LESS THAN the risk of covid, then that’s not right. If they’ve concluded they can impact his quality of life etc because the risk of covid is so grave, then I think you probably have a lever to argue that’s a load of old bobbins.

75477 ▶▶ Polemon2, replying to simon crisp, 4, #149 of 1354 🔗

You say he is living in a care home. Legally, that is his home. The care home has no power to prevent him leaving the property is he so wishes. To do so would be a “Deprivation of Liberty” as in the Mental Health Act 2005. Presumably his care plan includes a “Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards assessment. If it doesn’t, it should.
However you might want to check out.
which may provide more ammunition (or otherwise!) for your fight.
Good luck.

75481 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Polemon2, 4, #150 of 1354 🔗

They’ve changed all that though, they brought in emergency mental health legislation? They’ve also suspended care rights for disabled people. I know Simon Dolan’s case is important, but I do think we’ll achieve more by picking off each bit of madness one by one. I’ve spent days trying to understand the legal basis for suspending NHS appointments, it’s almost impossible to find out.

75741 ▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to BecJT, #151 of 1354 🔗

“suspended care rights”…… can you post the relevant reference please?

75886 ▶▶▶▶▶ Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, #152 of 1354 🔗

As far as I can discover, the changes to the Care Act relate to the duty to provide care. Information on the CQC website may also be a useful reference point although it might not say what you would like it to!

75889 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Polemon2, #153 of 1354 🔗

This is from the Corona Virus Act 2020, but that was revoked on 3rd July and replaced with Corona Virus Act 2020 Part 2 so what I don’t know is where you stand now https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2020/march/suspension-care-act-act-immediately

76218 ▶▶ rational actor, replying to simon crisp, 1, #154 of 1354 🔗

Do you have access to an advocacy organization? In Lincolnshire I come up with http://www.voiceability.org which provides assistance to people using adult care or mental health services. I used to be a mental health advocate in Scotland and this is the sort of thing we used to deal with. I don’t know how helpful people are right now, but it is worth asking if they can either help or refer you.

75400 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 34, #155 of 1354 🔗

Three reputable alternative media outlets in Germany report that attendance figures at the demo yesterday were much, much higher, many hundreds of thousands people seem the most plausible figure.
Even a former MSM star journo, Peter Hahne, is disgusted at the cover-up and absolutely incorrect framing of the demo and its participants by the MSM, politicians and the police.
There is also video at KenFM today, which gives one a good idea about the sort of people attending it: normal people with entirely legitimate but completely ignored concerns.

The MSM and the politicians ignore all that, of course, but those stories are now becoming wildly shared and many, many more people have now started to smell the rat.
The MSM might just have done our cause a huge favour and started to dig its own grave.

75412 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jay Berger, 9, #156 of 1354 🔗

Definitely a MSM to frame protestors as far right and silence opposition. Look at the size of the protest in London on Saturday, yet complete media silence. The only way we can get the truth out is to share coverage ourselves. The Telegraph had an article at the weekend about a drinks party held by Goldman Sachs back in May they were so short of propaganda to publish.

75446 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Darryl, 17, #157 of 1354 🔗

I complained to the BBC about lack of coverage of the UK protest and about the use of the terms “far right” and “conspiracy theorist” in the report of the Berlin protest.

This has just dawned on me, probably everyone else had realised this earlier, but one of the reasons that the BBC is so pro-narrative is I believe that in general they see sceptics as right-leaning libertarians and they viscerally hate people like that, so they are against whatever right-leaning libertarians are for, and for everything they are against.

I think the same goes for a lot of lockdown and mask zealots – they see Toby or Simon Dolan or Peter Hitchens pushing the sceptical point of view and automatically oppose it on principle because of who supports it – it has little to do with logic or necessarily a reasoned position on their part.

It fits in well with the way people think about politics these days – not “is X a good or bad idea, on its own merits, based on my worldview” but “X is supported by people who I have pre-identified as GOOD, so I support it” or “X is supported by people who are BAD, so I must oppose it”. Idiots.

75473 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 7, #158 of 1354 🔗

This is what I continually get from remainers. (The dullard ones).
“But how can you want Brexit when *NIGEL FARRAGE* *insert favourite current ‘fascist’ here* does??”

Because I believe what I believe, and what I believe doesn’t depend on what anyone else believes – and especially not on looking good to the ‘right’ people by denying what I believe because someone ‘unpalatable’ also believes the same thing.

Once someone says this immortal thing, I tend to abandon them as a friend and stop making an effort. Not because they disagree with me. Because they have no mind of their own.

76120 ▶▶▶▶▶ Edward, replying to Farinances, 5, #159 of 1354 🔗

I’ve been anti-EU since the Maastricht treaty, when it started to change from being the EEC. Nothing to do with Farage or a stupid slogan on a bus.

76399 ▶▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Farinances, 1, #160 of 1354 🔗

Opponent to HCQ treatment told me ‘If Trump likes it it must be bad’.

75512 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Julian, 6, #161 of 1354 🔗

When John Humphreys left the BBC, he said no one inside could even conceive of anyone voting Leave. Peter Sissons was getting good, too, but he upped and died.
Agree with your last para, “I’ve always voted for [party]” is so daft. The parties change, their members change and the times change. Gotta look at what’s in front of you.

75714 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Darryl, 2, #162 of 1354 🔗

Definitely a MSM to frame protestors as far right

As I’ve noted here before, hopefully this will backfire on them badly in the long run, because what they are doing is associating the “far right” politics and people they hate with such a profoundly vicious venom, with truth, common sense and liberty.

75929 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #163 of 1354 🔗

It’s like Brexit and Trump isn’t it? People who attended that march have legitimate concerns and are frustrated they’re not being listened to so what do the MSM do? The ones here ignore them while their home country smears them as “far right”, “conspiracy theorists” and even “Nazis”. A bit rich given their history.

Agree with you that the MSM are digging their own grave given that more and more people are turning to alternative media.

75402 Jack, replying to Jack, 20, #164 of 1354 🔗

From the Telegraph live feed:

Death toll jumps by five in EnglandThe four nations have the latest coronavirus numbers in the last hour:

  • In England a further five people who tested positive for coronavirus have died in hospital, bringing the total number of confirmed reported deaths in hospitals to 29,352, NHS England said. Patients were aged between 66 and 95 years old, and all had known underlying health conditions.
  • In Wales 24 new infections, but no new fatalities, have been detected.
  • Scotland has reported 18 new cases and no new deaths.
  • It’s a similar story in Northern Ireland – where there have also been no new deaths, but 40 new infections have been confirmed.

Inappropriate use of the word ‘jumps’ I would humbly suggest.

As mentioned yesterday, are we now seeing more use of the word ‘infections’ rather than ‘cases’ as it may be perceived to be more scary?

75404 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Jack, 11, #165 of 1354 🔗

These people know exactly what they are doing when the use certain words – I used to expect better from the Telegraph. Unfortunately, the majority of the population doesn’t pick up on emotive and misleading reporting.

75406 ▶▶ EssieSW, replying to Jack, 11, #166 of 1354 🔗

I do hate the language they use when reporting deaths and case/infections. Another word I noticed being used a lot when the numbers started to decline was ‘soar’ to try and keep up the fear.

Death total “soars” as 13 new deaths reported. I laughed out loud when that ‘breaking news’ alert popped up on my phone a couple of weeks ago

75452 ▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to EssieSW, 2, #167 of 1354 🔗

And surge…
Or even “rises” can include one death. They never say things like “record low”….

75500 ▶▶▶▶ EssieSW, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #168 of 1354 🔗

Just this minute had todays alert: UK death toll rises by 9.

Yes that was 9. I wonder what word they will use tomorrow for such an insignificant figure…sky rockets probably!

75672 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to EssieSW, 1, #169 of 1354 🔗

UK deaths continue to rise!

75695 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to EssieSW, #170 of 1354 🔗


75652 ▶▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Lockdown Truth, #171 of 1354 🔗

A rise from one death to two is a 100% surge!

75669 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Gossamer, 1, #172 of 1354 🔗

Disaster as deaths double!

75708 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Gossamer, 2, #173 of 1354 🔗

Coronavirus UK: TERRIFYING second wave likely as deaths EXPONENTIATE!

75610 ▶▶ Silke David, replying to Jack, 2, #174 of 1354 🔗

I too hate the use of the word jump. Has anyone noticed the discrepancy reecently bu the ONS, the have one site where you get the breakdown of tests in pillars 1-4, and then the big headline site, which also breaks down into councils etc. The first site stated 744 positive PCR tests over the last 24 hours, the other site states 938 new infections. A difference of nearly 200! Why?!

75888 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Jack, 7, #175 of 1354 🔗

This is actually good news in a subtle way. If you look at UK daily deaths on worldometers:


You can see that it has been non-zero but almost completely flat for the last month. It will probably continue to tail down a bit more.

What this shows is that the virus is endemic not eradicated. There is a huge difference. In Australia things went quiet for a month because the virus was nearly eradicated. This means they are due an epidemic and will very likely get one. It is an inherently unstable situation.

The UK is the opposite– at the end of the epidemic with Covid at reassuringly low but non-zero levels due to herd immunity.

The “official” story is that the UK is pretending to be Australia– we’re supposed to have hardly any herd immunity and to have almost eradicated the virus with lockdowns and restrictions. We need to keep testing everyone and jumping on outbreaks to keep it that way. But there’s no way we can be in that situation with as many as 50 deaths per day.

Look back to March 20th. 36 deaths per day. A week later, 284 per day. Another week, 714 in one day. Another week, now four weeks into the lockdown, 1152. If you’re at 50 deaths per day and don’t have herd immunity you don’t stay there for long. Things go south right quick fast in a hurry.

The only time an epidemic grows slowly is at the beginning (when the fire hasn’t started) and at the end (when it’s dying out). We have more than enough hot embers that if there we hadn’t run out of fuel it would be raging again. If we were at near zero I would be more worried, because then there would be a higher chance that the official story might be true.

75920 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to guy153, 1, #176 of 1354 🔗

In fact now that things have settled down so much and we have so many PCR tests we can have another look at the IFR.

About 50 deaths per day. If the IFR is 0.1% that would be around 50,000 infections or 0.08% of the population infected. I think that is about the ratio of positives ONS are finding these days.

If Fergie’s 1% IFR were right there should only be 0.008% positives.

76118 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 1, #177 of 1354 🔗

from memory the latest ONS figures to 30 June were an infection to total population rate of 0.04 to 0.05% (i.e.ratio of positive to total swabs, about 59 positives in some 116K tests.)

76203 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #178 of 1354 🔗

I think that works out to an IFR of about 0.2% which seems about right. The deaths now correspond to infections about three weeks ago but both are fairly level so it’s much easier to estimate the IFR than in the middle of the epidemic.

76525 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to guy153, #179 of 1354 🔗

OK my estimate was wrong. You can’t divide number of deaths per day by the total number of infections. You need deaths per day over infections per day.

This works out to a much higher IFR. The ONS reckon about 3000 new infections per day, which is about right if you divide the 30,000 current infections by 10– it takes about 10 days to recover, so every day about 3000 people need to be infected to replace those who recovered to keep it at about 30,000. They use some fancier math, which is probably more accurate, this is just my sanity check.

50 deaths over 3000 infections is 1.6%! Maybe it’s not 50 deaths per day– the daily average for the last week was 38.5. And the 3000 has a big confidence interval.

But this is still way too high. That estimate of the number of infections is from the household survey which excludes infections in hospitals. These deaths are not coming from the same population as the tests.

If we look at this:


The Pillar 1 tests are showing a 0.3% positive rate, and the Pillar 2 tests about 0.8%. But the ONS household survey is showing 0.05%.

Pillar 1 are people in health-care settings. It’s about 6x bigger, so that pushes the IFR down to 0.26%, which seems more reasonable.

But what’s going on with Pillar 2? That’s showing a positive rate of about 0.8%. Pillar 2 is people who turn up in carparks– supposedly random but you would expect some selection bias and to find a higher positive rate than the ONS household survey. But not by 16 times! You would also expect Pillar 1 (healthcare settings) to be higher, not lower.

Perhaps the Pillar 2 tests (which are done by private companies) have a higher false positive rate than the ones the ONS are using.

75921 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to guy153, #180 of 1354 🔗


75403 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 32, #181 of 1354 🔗

“Zoom and FaceTime, like Covid, know no borders.
If you can do your job from a laptop in a spare room, maybe someone else could do it cheaper from far-off India or Africa.”

I think that’s what this particular lockdown loving crowd doesn’t get at all.

75933 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #182 of 1354 🔗

Exactly. I tell people who say that they can get used to working from home that they should be careful what they wish for because there might come a point that companies will realise that they can get a Shalini from Mumbai or a Miguel from Manila who can do the same job much cheaper and even better.

75407 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 7, #183 of 1354 🔗

“Boris Johnson, the smiling politician who turned hope and optimism into an election landslide, is now a pale-faced bogeyman scaring the country to death.”

I think he and his cabal are still primarily obsessed by their no-deal Brexit and making it look as good as possible next year.
Therefore, they have an incentive to damage the economy as much as they can and can get away with this year, and they are living up fully to that and truly enjoy their destructive mission.

75418 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Jay Berger, 14, #184 of 1354 🔗

I wish I could believe it had to do with Brexit, I really do, but they look to me like they have bought into the covid narrative 100%, or they know it’s nonsense but are desperate to be found out and/or they are enjoying this

75408 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #185 of 1354 🔗

From New York Times. One of the worst fearmonger and biggest supporter of lockdown
“Lockdown measures for the pandemic could result in an additional 6.3 million cases of T.B. and 1.4 million deaths.

75444 ▶▶ Steve Hayes, replying to swedenborg, 3, #186 of 1354 🔗

So they know they are pushing for unnecessary deaths on a massive scale.

75411 Cristi.Neagu, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 38, #187 of 1354 🔗

Victoria tested almost 43,000 on Sunday, July 26th, twice as many as on normal days, and the peak on Wednesday could be due to the few days delay before the results come through.

Umm… how do we know the spike in testing wasn’t planned for exactly reason. I refuse to believe that this is incompetence. How stupid do you have to be to test twice as many people as usual and then be surprised when you see more cases? I cannot believe someone that idiotic would end up in charge. This is premeditated, and i’m certain of it.

75423 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 13, #188 of 1354 🔗

I agree – one, two or three isolated instances of illogical decision making could keep me thinking it is sheer incompetence but this much incompetence of such a long period affecting so many people has me convinced there is an agenda. Perhaps not a world take over but there is a reason!

76438 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to tallandbald, 2, #189 of 1354 🔗

and it would have to be global incompetence – even harder to believe.

75440 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Cristi.Neagu, 13, #190 of 1354 🔗

NONE of this is incompetence!

75417 adele, 1, #191 of 1354 🔗

In response to the writer from BD20 – apparently it was Bradford council that wanted all areas of Bradford included, not the government. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/18621425.amp/

75424 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 15, #192 of 1354 🔗

 “Worried about losing your child to covid? In Minnesota this year, 1 child has died w/ covid. During this same time, 3 have died from drowning, 3 from respiratory infections, 3 from ATV(All terrain vehicles) accidents, 2 from bicycle accidents, 9 from car accidents, and 225 from other things Minnesota 5.7 million

75436 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to swedenborg, 5, #193 of 1354 🔗

Can we make a simple leaflet to this using UK stats?

75441 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 15, #194 of 1354 🔗

I really want to vomit. The papers are now carrying full page NHS ads.

” Let’s get back to the things we love. Let’s get tested”.

Testing is free, quick and vital to stop the spread of Coronavirus.

75445 ▶▶ Bugle, replying to Margaret, 22, #195 of 1354 🔗

From what I can observe, the opposite is true. If you get tested, prepare to be locked down.

75851 ▶▶▶ RyanM, replying to Bugle, 6, #196 of 1354 🔗

exactly. At one point I would have said that we should test asymptomatic just to see how many there are so we can all stop being hysterical. But I was wrong. We are ignoring the obvious adjustment of IFR and pretending that this is just as deadly as some people feared back in March… so increased testing leads only to increased detection which fuels more hysteria. It is all so amazingly stupid.

75453 ▶▶ Richard O, replying to Margaret, 19, #197 of 1354 🔗

The same tests that had to be withdrawn a few weeks ago due to being unreliable and unsafe? The same NHS that has been on holiday with full pay for the last 5 months at the expense of the complete and permanent destruction of the economy and our freedom? Vomit is the absolute bare minimum response.

“Testing is vital to promote the spread of lockdown” would be nearer the mark.

75457 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Margaret, 17, #198 of 1354 🔗

How the hell does a test stop the virus?

What they mean to say is – stay at home if you’re ill.

No need for a sodding test. Just common sense and what everyone should be doing anyway to look after *themselves* regardless of others.

75517 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 2, #199 of 1354 🔗

They want you tested to get your DNA on file – they even admit it now (see post on yesterday’s thread)

75463 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Margaret, 21, #200 of 1354 🔗

This particular use of language has been odd throughout. Hancock has said a couple of times that we return to normal when people start following the rules.

One would think that a plummeting death rate would be the cue to return to normal. Apparently it’s more to do with how much we obey our masters.

75487 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cicatriz, 6, #201 of 1354 🔗

Hand-cock has three choices : he can claim to be ignorant; or he can claim to be stupid; or he can claim he’s being paid to be a shill.

I don’t think that there’s any other options.

75494 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to RickH, 2, #202 of 1354 🔗

All three?

75646 ▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to RickH, 2, #203 of 1354 🔗

He’s getting off on it?

75515 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cicatriz, #204 of 1354 🔗

Follow the rules in Hancock-speak means submitting to testing even if you are symptomless, so your DNA can be collected and sold to Palantir…

75590 ▶▶▶ Jaguarpig, replying to Cicatriz, #205 of 1354 🔗

Fuck em

75465 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Margaret, 5, #206 of 1354 🔗

how is it free? surely we are all paying for all the tests that don’t even work?
how much do the dumb tests actually cost to produce?

75496 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Margaret, 2, #207 of 1354 🔗

“The things we love” goes on to mention sports, gigs etc. All cancelled. And Bugle hits the nail, below.

75506 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, 1, #208 of 1354 🔗

Obviously a blatant attempt to rapidly create DNA database of the whole population – tell people NOT to get tested! Probably in advance of vaccine/covipass/both…

75643 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Margaret, 4, #209 of 1354 🔗

Rhetorical… WTF do we need to be tested for? Look at hospital admissions and deaths to see how things are going. If you want to do a sample survey to see how herd immunity is progressing then do that in the usual way. But leave us f*****g alone!

75897 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, 1, #210 of 1354 🔗

Btw re the testing saw this posted on Simon Dolan’s Twitter, proving they are taking DNA: https://twitter.com/PLucieM/status/1290251997057228801

75935 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, #211 of 1354 🔗

Never, never, never!!!!

76022 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Margaret, 4, #212 of 1354 🔗

It’s a global Public Health scam. Period. Be very afraid. I am.

75447 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 10, #213 of 1354 🔗

Something is going on…..
10 days ago I visited my local surgery for a blood test.As expected, mask required and maximum 3 people in giant waiting area.
Today I receive a circular saying compulsory temperature check at reception with ejection to a swab testing centre somewhere if it is marginally above normal.Maximum 1 person in waiting area.
What can possibly have caused this sudden increase in surgery lockdown?

75448 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Polemon2, 4, #214 of 1354 🔗

The National Covid Service

75466 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Polemon2, 10, #215 of 1354 🔗

It was me who asked the question in today’s update, I really want to know the answer, there must be (one would hope) a legal basis on which doctors are doing this surely, and more importantly where does the buck stop? is it NHS england, is it the CCG, is it the Dept of Health? Who is responsible, and thus, accountable for this absolute travesty? RCGP say they can’t tell me, so I’ve asked the BMA, my MP, Matt Hancock, NHS England and now my CCG. Key will be whether the gov’s poxy risk and equality impact assessment is sufficient, or whether (as is normally the case) that responsibility also falls on GP practices. Interestingly in law, for risk assessment purposes, Covid is not ‘an imminent or present danger’ – risk assessments have to be on the risk of covid, NOT on the risk of transmission of covid. If that’s right, then they are utterly buggered if they’ve risk assessed it and concluded that the risk of covid transmitting covid is greater than the risk of withdrawing care.

75482 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to BecJT, #216 of 1354 🔗

Very good points. But I doubt that you will get other than bullshit – if anything – in return.

75491 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to RickH, 7, #217 of 1354 🔗

I’ve emailed Simon Dolan today, to explain all this, and ask if he’d look. If – as I suspect – the gov with the Part 2 corona virus legislation kicked back responsibility to local authorities, CCGs and health authorities, then I think we can hold them accountable (I’ve done this with something else, it’s amazing what one terrifying letter will do). If we can get clear on the facts then all we have to do is each adapt a template letter and fire it off to our local area. If as I hope, individual practices are also responsible for risk assessing and equality impact assessing, then even better, because I’m in rural Shropshire, the actual RISK (not risk of transmitting) is miniscule, I cannot see how they could have come up with a lawful risk assessment that says suspending smear tests, or breast exams, or proper care for the elderly is proportionate.

75637 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim, replying to BecJT, 4, #218 of 1354 🔗

Most GP practices are private partnerships, so yes they will be individually responsible for risk assessments.The will have received NHS “guidance”, which they will be slavishly following, but I don’t think that absolves them of ultimate legal responsibility.

75658 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tim, #219 of 1354 🔗

Brilliant, this is precisely what I want to find out. Thanks.

75650 ▶▶▶▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to BecJT, #220 of 1354 🔗

Have you emailed Francis Hoar at Field Court chambers?

75655 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #221 of 1354 🔗

No, that’s a good idea. Thanks

75670 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #222 of 1354 🔗

If anyone is on twitter and can tweet him, succinctly, the question is ‘On what legal basis have NHS GPs suspended face to face appointments, and where does the buck stop for equality impact and risk assessing that decision? What rights do patients have if they are receiving substandard care?’

75483 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Polemon2, 2, #223 of 1354 🔗

F.ing ridiculous, a-scientific and against medical ethics.

76035 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RickH, 1, #224 of 1354 🔗

And the Hippocratic Oath.

75501 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Polemon2, 1, #225 of 1354 🔗

They’re trying to increase testing wherever they possibly can – DNA harvesting…

75450 Howie59, replying to Howie59, 14, #226 of 1354 🔗

Where I live, I can sit with a co-worker in a pub and have a drink with them.

If i invite them to my home, I could be fined £100.

If I refuse to go to work and sit next to them I would get sacked.

Go figure?

75478 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Howie59, 3, #227 of 1354 🔗

No figuring. This is theology, not science.

Theology is the art aimed at providing spurious rationalisation for irrational myths

75490 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Howie59, 7, #228 of 1354 🔗

The ‘spike’ was caused by people “socialising and not maintaining social distancing” at a time when we were allowed to have 30 people in our homes.

Two of you sit at opposite ends of the bus – mask required. Four of you get in taxi, no mask required.

The virus will kill us all, wear a mask. Under elevens exempt, so must be immune, but they can’t go to school…

Ad nauseum.

75497 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Howie59, #229 of 1354 🔗

Another good 3 point (like Boris!) good message to communicate to sceptics…

75660 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Howie59, #230 of 1354 🔗

There is no sense involved in this.

Trying to make sense of it is as pointless as trying to make a jigsaw where each piece is from a different puzzle.

75454 Sue D, replying to Sue D, 8, #232 of 1354 🔗

Thank heaven for Peter Hitchens – his latest tirade on talkRadio.


75461 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Sue D, 2, #233 of 1354 🔗

thank you for the link

76411 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Sue D, #234 of 1354 🔗

Just listened to it. Thanks a lot!

75455 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 9, #235 of 1354 🔗

There are so many new rules, regulations and guidelines being brought out by our “esteemed” government, that it got me thinking. There must be many people in the U.K. who:

a. Don’t have a tv/tv licence so they can’t watch the news.
b. Don’t have a daily paper.
c. Don’t have access to a computer or smart phone.
d. English is not their first language.

How on earth are they supposed to keep up with the constantly changing situation?
Is Boris going to write them another letter?

75467 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Margaret, 8, #236 of 1354 🔗

Maybe they are happily oblivious to all of this nonsense. I often wish I was unaware.

75509 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to watashi, 7, #237 of 1354 🔗

There are plenty of people round here who don’t know what’s going on because they don’t have a TV licence and don’t read papers and only use the internet for email. They tend to be of a certain age, unaffected by woke bullshit and current day fads…..

And have consequently largely worked put for themselves that it’s complete bullshit. Funny how these people are always called ‘low information voters’ and yet they’re more informed – by not being ‘informed’! 😉 – than younger people.

I’ve always got on better with people a good twenty years older than me and this is probably why.

75803 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Margaret, 1, #238 of 1354 🔗

I think I did get some sort of fake letter at some point actually. I immediately “quarantined” in the bin so have no idea what it said.

75462 Darryl, replying to Darryl, 3, #239 of 1354 🔗

I have been writing to my MP regarding lockdown like many on this site. I was surprised to find my MP actually appears to have read and actually replied (not a template reply). She is robustly defending the government, personally I think the figures in the email are completely misleading –

The current UK death toll stands at 45,318. These are human lives – so I will have to say I strongly disagree with you when you say the government have been scaremongering and attempting to “instil fear”. The Government have always aimed to put in place measures at the most effective time, w hen we think it can make the biggest difference in slowing the spread of the disease, reducing the number of victims and fatalities, and protecting our NHS. I am proud to be a part of a government which has placed human lives above anything else.

The only rules in place are to keep a meter apart and the wearing of the mask. Neither rule seem ridiculous, especially if it means it could save one life. I understand maybe a face mask can be difficult to wear if you suffer from a breathing condition, in which case will make you exempt from having to wear one. In terms of frontline staff such as sales assistants, cashiers and security guards, they have suffered disproportionately from coronavirus. The death rate of sales and retail assistants is 75% higher amongst me and 69% high among women.

No one would want businesses to close, hence the government providing an unprecedented amount of money and support to help companies. But again, if the government did nothing, do you not think the amount of deaths would not have an effect on the economy?

As is the nature of politics and making decisions, we cannot satisfy everyone. There will always be people that agree and do not agree, but my main priority, as well as the main priority of my colleagues in the Government, is protecting as many people as possible and keeping them safe.

75469 ▶▶ Howie59, replying to Darryl, 7, #240 of 1354 🔗

She has asked you a question, so the least she can expect is a reply.

“But again, if the government did nothing, do you not think the amount of deaths would not have an effect on the economy?”

It’s a heartless answer, but the true answer is “little if any effect”. The economy has never suffered because of death, flu or otherwise.

75475 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Howie59, 3, #241 of 1354 🔗

Very tempted to reply. As far as I am concerned the 45k deaths figure include a lot of non Covid deaths and people scared to death by the government actions and those not receiving hospital treatment. Also there is no scientific proof people caught Covid whilst working in shops.

75638 ▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Darryl, 7, #242 of 1354 🔗

It’s difficult to take anyone seriously when they repeat the ‘shopworkers death rate 75%’ statement as they clearly will believe anything Hancock says without actually checking if it’s true.

75767 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to dpj, 1, #243 of 1354 🔗

It is true. Sylvie fact-checked it when he first said it.

The absolute numbers are low so it’s no cause for alarm but it is true and statistically significant (if not any other kind of significant).

To put things in perspective the chance of any man dying with Covid is still lower than that of a woman who works in a shop. And it was only about 50 or 60 people, and who knows what they actually died of.

75798 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 1, #244 of 1354 🔗

Yes, 34.2 male shopworker deaths per 100K is 175% of the rate for all working age males per 100K of 19, but the actual number of shopworker deaths was only 43 in total.
Similar picture for women, 15.7 shopworker deaths per 100k is 162% of the overall rate of 9.7 per 100K, but actual number of deaths only 64! And as Julian(?) pointed out at the time, how were shopworkers defined, who knows where and how they contracted CV19 etc etc.
They other thing is, don’t claim the death certificates are falsified, they aren’t. After Shipman, doctors are advised they must put all the contributory causes of death on the cert, the rules are extensive and rigorous. So if the individual either had a positive swab, or a doctor or experienced health professional diagnosed Cv19 from symptoms, that had to be included as one item on the cert. And there’s a good reason for this, enables over the whole country the public health people to tell if any contributory cause of death is widespread, very rare, or what, a useful thing to know.

75817 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 3, #245 of 1354 🔗

I’d suggest you need to reply that on the contrary, the only rules in place are NOT 1 metre distancing and face coverings in shops and public transport. The imposition of temporary lockdowns in response to illusory ‘spikes’ in positive tests, which are restricting movement of people and making normal commerce difficult, is killing off economic activity, destroying jobs and bankrupting businesses. You hope her party’s MPs are proud of this and happy to take responsibility for it.

75867 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, 5, #246 of 1354 🔗

You might also want to suggest that even if the lockdown had been justified initially, its prolongation beyond about 1 June is highly debatable in terms of its net benefits. Refer her to the LSE Centre for Economic Performance Occasional Paper 49, authored by Gus O’Donnell (former Cabinet Secretary) and others. Ask her on what evidence she believes that the saving of one life from CV19 outweighs the loss of many lives attributable to lockdown conditions, e.g. suicides, absence of treatment and unavailability of mainstream NHS services leading to cancer deaths, etc. Ask her if she has any evidence that government sought any study of the net cost and benefits, since as far as you are aware, it has been admitted in evidence to the Science and Technology select Committee that none was commissioned. You suggest that even at this late date she should press for such a study to be presented to parliament. That would be a more useful contribution than uncritically trotting out the party line that ‘saving one life’ outweighs causing unexamined loss of lives from prolonged lockdown, not to mention trashing the economy, depriving children of an education, and forcing relatives to mourn forever the lonely deaths of their closest relatives.
Sorry, rant over…

75820 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ dpj, replying to Bruno, #247 of 1354 🔗

OK, thanks, I didn’t see the original explanation for this. So basically taking a very small sample out of those who’ve died in total, ignoring all other factors and coming to a conclusion that supports his argument then.

75958 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #248 of 1354 🔗

I wasn’t claiming any falsification, but my understanding was these counts were of people who died “with Covid-19 mentioned anywhere on the death cert”, not where it was a cause of death– they record both. But maybe I’m wrong about that?

76058 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, 1, #249 of 1354 🔗

Sorry, wasn’t a reply to you who are always reliable, I was responding to Darryl’s ‘the 45k deaths figure include a lot of non Covid deaths and people scared to death by the government…’
(They don’t, pity to spoil it by claiming they do, was what I meant.)

76333 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to Bruno, #250 of 1354 🔗

My understanding is that the Shipman laws were suspended at the outset of the covid outbreak. Sneaked in, like everything else

75471 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Darryl, 6, #251 of 1354 🔗

This is a disgraceful response.

“I am proud to be part of a government which has placed human lives above anything else”- but only those who tested positive for Coronavirus.

75472 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Darryl, 2, #252 of 1354 🔗

Tosser! Perhaps a quick reply asking “And what about those killed by ill-considered Lock-Up?”

75479 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to RickH, 2, #253 of 1354 🔗

I really need a hard hitting reply with facts to back it up. Can’t let it rest at this.

75499 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Darryl, 11, #254 of 1354 🔗

There’s no evidence lockdown saved any lives, here or anywhere else (just look at countries around the world that did and did not lock down and they vary enormously), and plenty of evidence it cost and will continue to cost lives

All-cause mortality for the year so far is around 360,000. Same figure for 2018 (bad flu season) is 340,000. We are currently running at LOWER than average deaths, so outrun for this year may well be similar to 2018. Not an unprecendented public health threat, so why the damaging reaction that WAS unprecedented?

Placing human lives above everything else is frankly a childish response and misses the point. Human life is important, but a life lived to the fullest extent possible, not a life of fear and restriction and unemployment. And the NHS and other things that make life safer and better must be paid for, so shutting down the economy is not without human cost. Everything is a tradeoff and saving lives at all costs is immoral, unnatural, unworkable and has never been attempted by any government I can think of.

What’s their exit strategy? A vaccine? Good luck – may never come, or when it does it will only be partially effective. We’ve been working on Flu vaccines for decades and millions still die of Flu every year. Track and trace? Simply unworkable in a globalised world, in the UK, and we don’t have the resources anyway, plus most of the people you test will not be ill and shouldn’t be locked up. Herd immunity is the only realistic exit strategy and isn’t that hard to achieve. We are nearly there. Sweden, Sweden, Sweden!

75516 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 4, #255 of 1354 🔗

The other issue around vaccines is the sheer folly of accepting a novel injection without proper random controlled trialling … a process that should take years, not months.

Then we have the immunity granted against legal action related to side-effects. That tells a massive tale.

You’d have to be a bit of a prick yourself to accept treatment on that basis!

75521 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to RickH, 3, #256 of 1354 🔗

Bill Gates was very evasive when asked about that the other day – body language was very telling..

76449 ▶▶▶▶▶ djaustin, replying to Julian, #257 of 1354 🔗

Cumulative deaths for Week 30 (today’s data) are 330K for 2018 and 371K for 2020. We are up 40K deaths on a bad flu year in which treatment and vaccination were available. Week 30 mortality is at the median of 2010-19 implying that they would nothave died anyway and has tracked this trend for the previous three weeks.

I agree about the need for balance, but the mortality data really is pretty dire – mostly due to the hugely inflated mortality in care homes. Protective treatments (vaccines and therapeutic antibodies) will come next year, but at the moment restriction of contacts (mainly with the most vulnerable) is the only intervention tool. I’d put most of my efforts into the care sector.

75511 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Darryl, 4, #258 of 1354 🔗

I think that it was the University of Sheffield and ?? that have (in the last week) done a study calculating the mortality attributable to Lock-Up. It’s a fairly conservative estimate.That might be a start. Others may have the reference to hand.

As a personal insight – my review/scan (cancer follow-up) has been delayed for four months. I am not particularly worried – simply because of my personal situation and history. But extend that over the nation and all health issues that need investigation.

75526 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to RickH, #259 of 1354 🔗

Grateful for all the suggestions from everyone. I need to get as much information together as possible for a response.

75546 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Darryl, 1, #260 of 1354 🔗

Take your time with that, it’s easy to pull that apart, CEBM really good for stats, there was a study on healthcare workers (low paid cleaners and porters, not front line staff). Sketch out your reply and we’ll help you pad it out.

75611 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to BecJT, #261 of 1354 🔗

Thanks, I certainly think pretty much everything can be refuted.

76238 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ rational actor, replying to Darryl, 2, #262 of 1354 🔗

Apart from examining actual evidence for her claims I think it is worth critiquing the tone of her letter, which is a form of emotional blackmail that should not be left to stand as is. Her claim that she is only concerned about ‘human lives’ takes no account of the lives that will be lost through lack of medical treatment, poverty and financial stress, or of the massive toll this grotesque social distortion is having on mental health (remember when everybody was all about ‘mental health awareness’ about six months ago? Yeah, me neither.)

And ‘saving only one life’ is a meaningless cliche that needs to be retired. She could save more than one life by making it illegal to use ladders. I think you should call bold, full-frontal BS on this emotive manipulation and point out that from a public policy point of view it has no value.

That’s what I would do. But then I would also point out that, as a woman, I regard this letter as an argument against women being allowed to participate in public life.

76352 ▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Darryl, #263 of 1354 🔗

LIVING WITH COVID-19: BALANCING COSTS AGAINST BENEFITS IN THE FACE OF THE VIRUS has been published by the National Institute Economic Review No. 253 August 2020. It was produced by Professor David Miles Professor of Economics, Imperial College London, Mike Stedman and Adrian Heald.
The Daily Mail produced a very distorted view of the report by Lucy White on July 24th https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8555171/The-cost-lockdown-Britains-economy-not-worth-lives-saved-study-claims.html#comments which reports only 1 of 40 possible outcomes detailed by the Imperial team, that 1 possible outcome being the one least critical of the policy of Lockdown.
The full Imperial report is available here: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/people/d.miles/document/7583/Miles%20Stedman%20Heald%20NIESR/?Miles%20Stedman%20Heald%20NIESR.pdf
The report looks at how a cost/benefit analysis may be produced for the Covid 19 emergency. It is interesting to compare and contrast the findings with the report produced by the NHS and Government Actuaries published 8th April 2020.
The Imperial report attempts to quantify the ‘cost’ of deaths by using the figure used by NICE, £30,000 per year of life, (this figure is used by NICE to determine the upper limit of health resources that should be expended to save a year of life). The paper discusses various alternative measures but as this figure is in widespread use it seems as a good a figure to use as any. Thus, for someone dying of Covid 19 who, had they not died would have gone on to enjoy 10 years of life, the lost 10 years is valued at 10 x £30,000 = £300,000. The key drivers on the ‘benefits’ or savings side of the equation are; how many lives did lockdown save and how many years of life on average would those victims have enjoyed if not cut down by Covid 19?
On the other side of the equation, the ‘cost’ side of Lockdown, the Imperial team take the figures from the Bank of England and the Office for Budget Responsibility to estimate the cost at various levels between 9% and 25% of GDP which equate to a range from £200bn to £550bn.
The lives saved by Lockdown are placed at anywhere between 440,000 and 20,000 lives. That’s a 22 x variance and goes to illustrate the dire situation we are in when our top economists and statisticians can’t narrow the range of possible lived saved any more accurately than that. Of course the higher number is derived from Imperial’s very own Professor Neil Ferguson who projected 500,000 lives lost. This figure was dependent upon the IFR (infection/fatality rate) being 1% and the susceptibility rate of the UK population to be about 80%. In reality the IFR looks like being about 0.25% an

75485 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Darryl, 1, #264 of 1354 🔗

The government itself admits the lockdown will kill 200,000. It constrasted this against the Imperial College’s random number generator of 500,000 (seriously, it’s garbage, it needs to be run multiple times because it gives different results each time).

Check out Malcolm Kendrick’s blog for the overall cost of each life saved even using the random number of 500,000 people.

75915 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #265 of 1354 🔗

This may cause them a problem when the death toll hovers stubbornly at 50k, people start comparing it to a normal flu season, and more people address Fergy’s honky model.

Notice how he’s disappeared? He’s done the further modelling for the ‘second spike’ but has been kept out of the public eye.

76011 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Farinances, 2, #266 of 1354 🔗

Does his mistress count as a bubble? Is social distancing and bigamy compatible? Did Ferguson’s model take promiscuity into account?

These are the important questions he needs to be asked.

Besides, wasn’t he fired? I get the feeling that he was probably rehired immediately and paid as a consultant (probably with a juicy pay rise) and the firing was just to quieten the public down for a bit.

75569 ▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to Darryl, 1, #267 of 1354 🔗

Sanctimonius cow. All the usual platitudes “45,000 death toll blah blah blah, human lives blah blah blah, our NHS blah blah, keeping people safe blah.”

Maybe you should point out that the actual death toll is likley to be considerably lower due to obvious overcounting. Maybe you should also point out that there were 44,000 excess winter deaths in 2014/15 but the government didn’t feel the need to “keep people safe” then ( https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25 )

You can always throw Sweden at her. They love that one! A death rate of 564 per million compared to our 695.


75576 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Wickwar Bob, 3, #268 of 1354 🔗

Thanks, Sweden is a very good idea. I don’t get the impression I am very popular with her so will go for everything!

75633 ▶▶▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to Darryl, 3, #269 of 1354 🔗

The point is, I think, can she (or any other lockdown lunatic for that matter) point to evidence that lockdowns and other restrictions have led to a lower death toll than would have been the case had the government done nothing? Unless you had a crystal ball back in March, I can’t see how you can possibly prove this. And there’s absolutely no correlation between government measures worldwide and the infection and death curves in different countries. In fact, in Europe and most of the states, the pattern has been consistent everywhere regardless of what the authorties did.

Could always quote Prof. Suneptra Gupta of Oxford too. She’ increasingly scathing about lockdown polices and is a highly credible source.

Keep pushing Darryl!

75642 ▶▶▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Wickwar Bob, 1, #270 of 1354 🔗

I find it difficult to understand the degree she has brought into the lockdowns work narrative. I think I can safely assume she would happily vote in favour of any restrictions on liberties the government may propose.

75588 ▶▶ anon, replying to Darryl, #271 of 1354 🔗

who is your mp?

name the bitch!

75605 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Darryl, 14, #272 of 1354 🔗

They are still peddling the old “high death rate for sales assistants” line. Here’s my reply to my MP on it – it was 18 days ago so the data may have changed:

“I have now had an opportunity to review the source of the statistics you quote. The data is wholly inadequate to justify a policy which, quite literally, changes the face of the people in whose interests you govern. The data is being used (I may say abused) to justify a policy decision that has already been taken.

  • The ONS study looked at deaths among men and women of working age (20-64 years old) up to 25 May. That does not equate to a death at work or a death caused by working conditions **.
  • The ‘excess death’ ratios you quote (75% for men and 60% for women) are a comparison with deaths among the whole population, most of whom were workers who were confined to their homes during the period under review or people who are not in employment. A comparison with all those who were out and about, working, would give radically different statistics.
  • The absolute numbers of deaths among workers in the ‘sales and retail assistants’ sector are small – 43 men and 64 women, among a total of 4,761 deaths in the ONS study.
  • When compared with the other occupations in the survey, the deaths of both men and women in the sector appear to be not far off average, if I interpret the graphs in the report correctly.
  • In terms of deaths per 100,000, male sales and retail assistants came behind (for example) ‘bookkeepers, payroll managers and wages clerks’.
  • Female sales and retail assistants came behind ‘National Government administrators’.
  • Yet I hear no call for bookkeepers and administrators to be specially protected.

** The report says in its summary:
“our findings do not prove conclusively that the observed rates of death involving COVID-19 are necessarily caused by differences in occupational exposure.”

Now, compare this to the evidence of my own eyes. I have been to various supermarkets locally during lockdown; the staff have not been wearing masks (if they felt that they were in a dangerous workplace they would surely have done so). Almost without exception, they have told me that none of their colleagues have caught the virus. They have been cheerful, not fearful; it was some of the shoppers who were fearful, after a relentless diet of uncontextualized data provided by the government and media.”

75636 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to BTLnewbie, 4, #273 of 1354 🔗

I wonder if MPs are given a list of government approved ‘facts’ to state in replies. I get the impression it was the MP actually replying rather than a template reply. The data they use is clearly out of date as even Matt Hancock said the death figures are inflated due to poor statistics.

76342 ▶▶▶▶ Cbird, replying to Darryl, #274 of 1354 🔗

Of course they are

75843 ▶▶ Montag Smith, replying to Darryl, 3, #275 of 1354 🔗

What a load of disingenuous rubbish. No government has ever done everything it can to save lives, and if Covid hadn’t happened then the next flu season would have occurred with no mask wearing, social distancing etc.

75951 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Darryl, #276 of 1354 🔗

Jesus wept. Another response taken from some template.

75468 RickH, replying to RickH, 1, #277 of 1354 🔗

Just some comments on the references in today’s comments.

  1. The lockdown debate has morphed into a rerun of the Brexit wars ‘ – wishful partisan thinking; not welcome if you want to build support. The only link is the bullshittery of Mr Toad
  2. LOCKDOWN LUNACY 3.0: It’s over ‘ – Latest blog post from JB Handley. As always – a must read for meat and concision.
  3. Covid deaths are actually falling off a cliff – now we’re dying of coronaphobia ‘ – Robust column by Trevor Kavanagh in The Sun – Quite a hopeful sign if even the head scribbler idiot’s guide to current affairs is turning against Mr Toad!
75480 ▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, 3, #278 of 1354 🔗

Agree about Brexit – seems like an unhelpful distraction (and I am a leaver).

Kavanagh on our side is indeed welcome (I don’t know much about him, but he’s a big name writer for the Sun so has a platform).

75527 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 2, #279 of 1354 🔗

I think he was Political Editor, prior to Tom Newton Dunn. He is semi-retired now. His articles will hit home with a largely white working class male voter – the type Boris kept chirping about after the GE ‘I will not let you down’. Shame he didn’t clear that with his handlers first, or was that just another falsehood?

75505 ▶▶ Wickwar Bob, replying to RickH, 7, #280 of 1354 🔗

I was quite encouraged how comments supporting Kavanagh’s article were massively upvoted, and comments from lockdowners massively downvoted. Same with Sikora’s piece in the Mail. Wouldn’t have seen that a few weeks ago.

The JB Handley blog post was excellent. Should be compulsory reading for the perpetually petrified. Though I expect some people wouldn’t get past the second paragraph before their eyes glazed over.

75964 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to RickH, 1, #281 of 1354 🔗

That was another excellent article from Kavanagh. Especially this:

The statistics that should be making our eyes truly pop are those for long-term mass unemployment, the destruction of our high streets, the collapse of the vast interlocking economic structure that keeps our daily lives afloat.

That structure can only survive if people actually go to work. We cannot all work from home. Soon, we might not even have that luxury.

Once again, I am not minimising the devastating impact of coronavirus on individuals and families. It is a horrible way to go.

But so is cancer, heart disease, kidney failure, strokes and all the other conditions that together claim 600,000 lives here every year.

Thanks to Covid, an army of untreated sufferers fearfully await their fate.

The hidden consequences for mental health — and the long-term wellbeing and life chances of children deprived of crucial schooling — will last for decades.

Again this should be tattooed on the foreheads of the likes of Johnson, Hancock, Whitty, Valance and all those responsible for this shit show. Or someone should narrate this article lock this shower of a government and Sage in a room and play the recording on a loop ad infinitum.

76088 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #282 of 1354 🔗

Excellent article by Kavanagh. One minor point though – Swedes are not wearing masks on public transport; obviously you get the odd masked person, but it is neither encouraged nor mandated.. In fact Tegnell has specifically said it is NOT necessary!

76153 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #283 of 1354 🔗

Had the same thought about Sweden which he did get wrong but apart from that great article.

75470 wendyk, replying to wendyk, 10, #284 of 1354 🔗


Slightly off message here, but for fellow sceptics languishing in Covid Caledonia, this link takes you to the Stop Sturgeon site. The movement is gathering steam.

We can but hope, so please read and pass on to hidden Unionists.

Secondly. went to greengrocer’s : proprietor told me that her 2 daughters are due to return to school on August 11th.

However, her sister, a teacher, has warned her that if 2 cases are identified, by whatever means,school closures will ensue.

Meanwhile ,local drunks and junkies are having a whale of a time-(I’ve just reported open drug dealing in our road to my council contact)- while we lesser mortals still cannot go to the dentist or have unrestricted access to our local library.

Finally, a friend who has been going along with the gagging nonsense, has now started using the word propaganda: glimmerings of hope.

75627 ▶▶ annie, replying to wendyk, #285 of 1354 🔗

Good luck! Burn the witch!

76236 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to annie, #286 of 1354 🔗

Maybe Nicola thinks she’s the Scottish Joan of Arc?

75949 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to wendyk, #287 of 1354 🔗

Many thanks for the link and will indeed pass it on. Where I am, apart from my neighbours’ conversion at the weekend, too many masks here for my liking!

75484 Sarigan, 3, #288 of 1354 🔗

My Covid Cri de Coeur.

Excellent piece from AIER – https://www.aier.org/article/my-covid-cri-de-coeur/

75486 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #289 of 1354 🔗

This is all ramping up in a ridiculous way with the “narrative” forging ahead regardless of any evidence against it.

Where will it end?

Using this method anything could be “written” including a world war where the Covid free countries attack the countries who aren’t doing enough to stop the spread.


75488 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #290 of 1354 🔗

Maybe I’m having a bad day

75534 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Lockdown Truth, 2, #291 of 1354 🔗

You’re not the only one.

A few of us are.

75537 ▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Lockdown Truth, 6, #292 of 1354 🔗

Everyday is bad at the moment, at least if you are awake.

For the sleepers it is just another day, comfortable in the knowledge your government & it advisors are working 24/7 to make you safe.

76202 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Dave #KBF, #293 of 1354 🔗

I don’t like Mondays …

76223 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #294 of 1354 🔗

On a more serious note though, Dave, if every day is bad then the bad guys are winning. Be kinder to yourself; switch off; go for a country or seaside walk. Drink beer.

They rotate troops from the front lines for a reason.

75489 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, 11, #295 of 1354 🔗

Some German states just to decided to make it mandatory that pupils wear masks when returning to school, in NRW even during class!

75493 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Jay Berger, 14, #296 of 1354 🔗

… and child abuse.

75759 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to Jay Berger, 4, #297 of 1354 🔗

It has already happened in many US states. I live in Washington State, and public schools are going to be mostly online. Private schools might be permitted to operate, but masks are required, all PE, art, music classes cancelled… lunch in classrooms, temps checked at doors, no parents allowed, etc… We already unenrolled our kids and will be homeschooling during the fall.

76201 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to RyanM, 1, #298 of 1354 🔗

Bloody good for you, Ryan !

75492 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 12, #299 of 1354 🔗

Is there a scientific name for the phenomenon whereby as a threat recedes, the response to it increases to be ever more severe and bizarre? Perhaps a military analogy would be the bombing of Dresden.

75503 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Tenchy, 4, #300 of 1354 🔗


75519 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Tenchy, 2, #301 of 1354 🔗

Can’t remember where but saw a great article on that theme recently. Like the obsession with Nazis 75 years after they were utterly defeated, or the anti-racist hysteria in football 30 years after it was last a real problem in England.

75532 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Tenchy, 6, #302 of 1354 🔗

I suppose that it is the equivalent of economics and the sunken costs fallacy.. you have invested so much into this that suddenly abandoning it would be a complete waste of the money you have invested (and you would look a complete idiot!)

75562 ▶▶ wendyk, replying to Tenchy, 1, #303 of 1354 🔗

Recently, in another context, I read about ‘St George without the dragon’: no threat remains, so main man-O dear!- main person, flails about seeking another enemy/threat etc.

75756 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Tenchy, 1, #304 of 1354 🔗

Disappointment eschatology.

75966 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Tenchy, 1, #305 of 1354 🔗

Carthaginian? Much like how Rome totally destroyed Carthage even after decisively defeating them in the Third Punic War to avoid them challenging Rome again ever.

75495 flyingjohn, replying to flyingjohn, 21, #306 of 1354 🔗

The DT ran a big piece on ‘what triggered Johnson to hit the brakes’ talking about all the new infections. It is a hysterical piece.

This is absolute nailed on, total nonsense and BS. This is disgraceful scaremongering by the DT. There is no ‘second wave’, no ‘spike’, just more testing which, surprise, surprise finds more infections. But they are not new cases, they are old ones. The only data that matters is deaths and hospital admissions due to Covid and there are hardly any. The NHS is not overwhelmed, ICU For Covid cases are empty across the country.

The number of infections is a smokescreen. Because the virus is disappearing, to keep up the presence of a deadly pandemic, the government and their advisors no longer talk about deaths, but ‘new infections’.

There is no second wave. Johnson’s and the ‘scientists’ latest mantra about ‘the danger of a second wave’ is pure scaremongering to keep us subdued and compliant and to readily accept another lockdown this winter.

It is clearly untrue, and yet the MSM faithfully parrot this nonsense.

75502 ▶▶ Julian, replying to flyingjohn, 8, #307 of 1354 🔗

The DT seems to want to be all things to all men.

76237 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Julian, #308 of 1354 🔗

And all women.

75498 Xenophanes, replying to Xenophanes, 2, #309 of 1354 🔗

Herd immunity – why not ask for volunteers? I’m intrigued that, as far as I know, it has hardly ever been suggested that (relatively young, healthy) volunteers could be recruited to be deliberately given a (relatively low viral load?) of C-19, in order to speed up the process of achieving herd immunity and help to ensure that it was the least vulnerable who get the disease. (A kind of Covid-19 version of variolation, but with the primary purpose of protecting the many and hastening the end of the pandemic rather than protecting the individual being infected). It’s not a suggestion that I would ever expect this Government to accept, but it just seems strange that it seems it is not something ever suggested even on these forums – or by less-conventional governments. I’m not even saying it’s something that should be done – but why is the idea not even discussed?

75513 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Xenophanes, 1, #310 of 1354 🔗

Literally no different from having the vaccine.

75520 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 3, #311 of 1354 🔗

Actually no, I lie.

The same only IF the vaccine is proved safe and effective beforehand (which it almost certainly wouldn’t be). The message should be – vaccinate thyselves! Go get thee a tiny dose by hugging a stranger!

75525 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 3, #312 of 1354 🔗

Great for the needlephobic too!

75522 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 2, #313 of 1354 🔗

Yes because they’re not going to cough on you to infect you, are they?
Besides, the raves, the protests and the Liverpool match should have already done it.

75518 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Xenophanes, 3, #314 of 1354 🔗

Good point but we’re already at herd immunity.
Besides, the government is hellbent on vaccinating us one way or another. Hence “herd immunity” is a taboo phrase.

75523 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #315 of 1354 🔗

Despite the fact it’s the phrase most commonly used when discussing how vaccines work……

75533 ▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Cheezilla, #316 of 1354 🔗

I really wish people would grow up on this kind of thing.

The same phenomona occurs in animals, so it gets a generic term. But, apparently, it’s treating humans like cattle.

75535 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Cicatriz, 3, #317 of 1354 🔗

Lol I pissed people off a few weeks back by saying that we are a herd. There’s nothing wrong with being a herd though in a scientific context.

Irony is crippling if you’re perfectly willing to follow the arrows round Sainsburys like a sheep but get really annoyed when someone says ‘herd immunity’.

We are animals and biology is how it works.

Nobody can get past loaded phrases though apparently. Once again the language is more important than anything else.

Maybe they should have foreseen this (with all their fancy psycho analysis behaviour experts) and rebranded it as something fluffy before proposing the idea. Then maybe we could have stuck with the Sweden plan and been gravy.

Population immunity.
Just one word could have made all the difference.

75689 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, -2, #318 of 1354 🔗

I pissed people off a few weeks back by saying that we are a herd. There’s nothing wrong with being a herd though in a scientific context.

You seem a tad ignorant of the games played with words, that have brainwashed the majority of our brothers and sisters.

Irony is crippling if you’re perfectly willing to follow the arrows round Sainsburys like a sheep but get really annoyed when someone says ‘herd immunity’.

And if we do not follow arrows, but get ‘really annoyed’ by abuse of the English language. What then ?

We are animals and biology is how it works.

Opinions, eh. One begs to differ.

Nobody can get past loaded phrases though apparently. Once again the language is more important than anything else.

This viewpoint suggest to me you are unaware of the power words can have on different categories of people. Not ‘more important than anything else’, but a significant factor which we ignore at our peril.

75823 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, 2, #319 of 1354 🔗

It’s precisely *because* I’m aware of the power of words that I can see through the hysteria.

You however seem very….. sensitive on that score.

76196 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #320 of 1354 🔗

It’s precisely *because* I’m aware of the power of words that I can see through the hysteria.

That is indeed a valuable skill. Are you saying it is the highest level of understanding ?

One aims for the sensitivity of both an iron rhinoceros, and that of a princess lying on twenty mattresses. 🙂

75609 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Cicatriz, 1, #321 of 1354 🔗

I think the way things are going, cattle might be better treated.

75674 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cicatriz, #322 of 1354 🔗

Of course it’s not treating humans like cattle. It’s labelling them as cattle.

75827 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to JohnB, #323 of 1354 🔗

🙄 🙄 🙄

People reacting like this to terminology is exactly why we’re in the situation we’re currently in and the cattle in Sweden are allowed to enjoy their lives.

75890 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Farinances, 2, #324 of 1354 🔗

The Swedes call it ‘flockimmunitet’, perhaps a foreign phrase we might import into our language already so rich in useful borrowings?

75896 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, #325 of 1354 🔗

(Thanks Carrie, I’ve forgiven you your conspiracy King Charles Head for that felicitous piece of information!)

76067 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bruno, #326 of 1354 🔗

Eh? I don’t understand..

75906 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Bruno, #327 of 1354 🔗

And apparently they’re not afraid of the phrase.
Whicch is probably why their government discussed it openly with them and decided to treat them like adults instead of frightened kids.

76200 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #328 of 1354 🔗

Ooh, now we are afraid of a phrase. More straw than Wurzel Gummidge.

76199 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Bruno, #329 of 1354 🔗

Flock off !

76198 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Farinances, #330 of 1354 🔗

Yet again, one begs to differ. You seem to be saying terminology is always 100% neutral – is that right ?

75507 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 21, #331 of 1354 🔗

Couple of things from today:

  • visited a friend for coffee and bullshit, he’s getting angrier and angrier and is almost ready to explode. His wife had to drag him out of a shop yesterday before he let go at a muzzled moron. They’ve also stopped talking to people they thought were “friends” because as soon as you try and have a sensible adult conversation on what is going on trot out the MSM phrases and switch off or their refuse to go out to socialise in case they get infected and drop dead.
  • son is in Poland visiting his girlfriend’s family for the summer. His old restaurant is trying to get him back but he’s not interested. turns out they have re-opend but half the staff not turned up for work. Officially they say they are “scared of covid” and the company hasn’t taken enough steps to protect them. On the whatsapp group they use the real reason is why go to work before furlough ends as they are getting paid to do nothing but play on x-box and drink and smoke dope? Not worth it apparently and they will milk it as long as possible. their average age is about mid-twenties.
  • went to a pub. No reservation but they “found”a n empty table. Miserable atmosphere but wife was hungry. Wife said it felt good to refuse mobile number for track and trace.
  • had a chat across the big gap to the older couple at the next table. They turned out to be sceptics but did not know here to turn to get facts to etc so pointed them in the right direction. They have also given up on “friends”.
75514 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #332 of 1354 🔗

“On the whatsapp group they use the real reason is why go to work before furlough ends as they are getting paid to do nothing but play on x-box and drink and smoke dope? Not worth it apparently and they will milk it as long as possible. their average age is about mid-twenties.”

*shock* I doubt even the LCD enhanced offspring of Nostradamus and Mystic Meg could have predicted this happening.

75531 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Cicatriz, 6, #333 of 1354 🔗

Politicians, anal retentive bureaucrats and HS+E numpties who cannot think their way out of a wet paper bag are good at those unintended but totally bleeding obvious consequences rules and regulations.

75528 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #334 of 1354 🔗

On the whatsapp group they use the real reason is why go to work before furlough ends as they are getting paid to do nothing but play on x-box and drink and smoke dope? “

Sounds like the essence of banking and other pursuits of the global capitalist class. What’s the problem 🙂

75606 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #335 of 1354 🔗

Sounds like he should add the restaurant manager to the whatsapp group ……

75510 Major Panic, 37, #336 of 1354 🔗

I’ve just been out to town to do some stuff;
In the bank the staff have ditched their grinder visors, probably after customer comments.
I was the only one in the Q without a nappy, one of the friendly smiling staff came up to me, no nappy or visor, and asked if I was depositing cash, I was so she was unable to help me at the customer service desk. No one gave a shit about my ugly mush being in view.
Next stop bargain booze, a lady outside was saying she didn’t have a nappy, and promptly followed me in nervously nappy free. No one gave a shit.
Next stop Sainsburys, everyone fully nappied up so I got a few jelous looks, made me feel quite exotic. but really no one gave a shit….

Moral of the story, don’t wear a mask – no one gives a shit…

75529 Paul, replying to Paul, 13, #337 of 1354 🔗

My wife and her friend have just finished their first maskless shopping trip and were pleased to report no problems at all from masked shoppers.
They had a couple of issues with the staff in Morrisons though.The staff in the cafe were very insistent about the filling in of track and trace forms,they said it was ‘the law’,no forms no food was their attitude.My wife said she thought the forms were voluntary but the person was having none of it,so to avoid a scene they filled the forms in.
Then in the main store the chap on the checkout asked them where they got their exemption cards from because he had asked his doctor for one but they wouldn’t give him one !,my wife told him that exemption was by self certification and you could buy or download one online,his response was ‘that can’t be right,that means anyone could get one’ !.My wife said he seemed to think he knew it all (obviously he seems to know very little) and his parting shot was,’anyway,exemption cards aren’t valid until August 8th’.
Give me strength,how can we fight this kind of idiocy ?.

75540 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Paul, 9, #338 of 1354 🔗

In your wife’s situation, I would have replied that ‘I will be happy to fill in your form, when you show me how you are complying with GDPR rules, show me a copy of your policy..’. Or else have to hand a copy of the newspaper article showing that the government’s track n trace contravenes GDPR regulations…

75596 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #339 of 1354 🔗

Exactly! GDPR is the acronym I couldn’t remember.

75545 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Paul, 4, #340 of 1354 🔗

The people that ‘enforce’ – in one way or another – the guidance, are regularly the ones that don’t bother to look it up. Whether shop staff or police.

75554 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 7, #341 of 1354 🔗

Oh, and remind me to take a copy of the ‘ non-statutory guidance’ on track and trace with me, next time I go to Morry’s cafe. Specifically, this:

If a customer or visitor informs you that they do not want their details shared for the purposes of NHS Test and Trace, they can choose to opt out, and if they do so you should not share their information used for booking purposes with NHS Test and Trace.

75595 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #342 of 1354 🔗

My problem with the way that’s worded is that it doesn’t say not to collect it if permission is witheld.
It is quicker just to make something up, unless you’ve time to ask to see their Data Protection Risk Assessment Report…..

75622 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #343 of 1354 🔗

Once more let me direct you to this excellent source of track and trace contact details:


Teach them a lesson when they have to self isolate every 5 minutes because someone with the ‘rona might have once been in the same building.

75553 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Paul, 4, #344 of 1354 🔗

Just fill it in with false details.

I prefer it’s to refusing as it wastes someone’s time and gives you a cheap laugh.

75557 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Paul, 9, #345 of 1354 🔗

By saying, what’s your name, who’s your boss and where do I send a written complaint? And then send a written complaint! They cannot do that, AT ALL, and deserve to reprimanded. Even asking about exemption is disability discrimination. Get your wife to write down the time, and all she can remember and fire it off. We’ve got to fight back, one little crappy incident at a time. The government are stalling on the main legal challenge, doesn’t mean we can’t fight them on the beaches. I’ve done this before, with something else, honestly it really works.

75530 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 1, #346 of 1354 🔗

The results are in. At 938 positive tests, there have been more reported today than any day since 26th June. So a question: how long does it take from a test being carried out to when its result appears in the government statistics?

75541 ▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Tenchy, #347 of 1354 🔗

Cases versus specimen date is plotted here https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

75547 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to nowhereman, #348 of 1354 🔗

That just seems to give the number of cases reported per date. I’m wondering about the lag between a test being carried out, and when it’s reported. Maybe there is no lag – result reported on day of test, but perhaps there’s a delay of a day or two?

75565 ▶▶▶▶ nowhereman, replying to Tenchy, 2, #349 of 1354 🔗

If you zoom into the end portion of the second plot, you will see how today’s reported cases are from specimens taken over the last few days (the purple bars).

75574 ▶▶▶▶▶ nowhereman, replying to nowhereman, 2, #350 of 1354 🔗

And the surge in testing can be found here https://coronavirus-staging.data.gov.uk/testing

75601 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to nowhereman, #351 of 1354 🔗

Maybe it’s my browser (tried IE11 and Edge), but on those graphs the zoom button doesn’t work, and I don’t see any purple bars. I was just wondering if today’s increase in positives might be attributed in whole or in part to the large increase in tests carried out on 31 July and 1 August.

75536 Sam Vimes, 10, #352 of 1354 🔗

Notes from the North West (we’re not sceptics, we’re very naughty boys)

Long walk on Sunday, through countryside, cloughs etc. Happily, we didn’t see anybody wearing masks out in the fresh air. That would have been a pointless thing to say, just two weeks ago, but not now.

Coming home, passed pub with large forecourt/seating area. Packed, everybody jammed onto those ‘bench’ tables that seat three a side, squeezed together. Definitely not following distancing/household rules. Any day now, what they were doing (i.e. normal life) will become illegal in our region. Whether it will change anything remains to be seen!

75538 Basics, replying to Basics, 5, #353 of 1354 🔗

An idea for those who are wearing a mask but still want to protest.

A slogan of :

This is

Fits quite well on a mask and is a strong statement. Not for everyone! It is just an idea that came to me so am sharing. It may do some good for someone.

I don’t mean to reignite the debate about bareface versus lanyard etc. I can picture the slogan being an effective protest.

75544 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, 3, #354 of 1354 🔗

I recon nappies with ”This is stupid” printed on them would sell like hot cakes….

You’d also be able to spot the closet sceptics

76524 ▶▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Major Panic, #355 of 1354 🔗

Mine was’ This doe,s not work, Worn under protest’

75548 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Basics, 6, #356 of 1354 🔗

I like
“This mask is as useless as our gvt.”
If you can fit it on 😆

75579 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, 1, #357 of 1354 🔗

On the t-shirt, with an arrow pointing upwards?

75563 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Basics, 3, #358 of 1354 🔗

Even easier is to write Placebo across the mask. I have other protest mask ideas as well, but some will be more difficult than others to fit on a mask. One of my new favourites is Make 1984 Fiction Again; some of my own are Mass(ked) Hysteria, Seen But Not Herd, and Anti-Socially Distanced. I’ve got some cloth masks and a permanent marker but I’ve been afraid to bugger it up. I think I’ll start with Placebo and see how that goes.

75578 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 4, #359 of 1354 🔗

Much of the younger generations have no idea what “1984” implies – though they think they know about Big Brother.

75746 ▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #360 of 1354 🔗

The people at the demo in Berlin were mainly critical thinking taught Gen Xers, followed by boomers, and, surprisingly, many from Gen Z.
Gen Y in contrast is completely useless and supporting this authoritarianism.
Think Owen Jones…

75754 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Lisa from Toronto, 1, #361 of 1354 🔗


(they live – great cult movie that’s rather relevant right now)

76191 ▶▶▶▶ Catherine123, replying to anon, #362 of 1354 🔗

I thought it would only be a matter of time before someone mentioned it. Couldn’t resist linking to the classic sunglasses scene.


76097 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #363 of 1354 🔗
75575 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Basics, #364 of 1354 🔗

Masks don’t stop viruses would be my slogan of choice.

75542 Drawde927, replying to Drawde927, 2, #365 of 1354 🔗

A couple of questions relating to the current state of testing in the UK.

– What’s the false-positive rate, approximately? This seems like a really important factor. The lower the number of actual cases, the more the false-positive rate will distort the true figures. Even 0.001% will result in 1000 false positives if you test a million people!

– Is it really true (as tweeted by Simon Dolan today) that the tests are now simply testing for “coronavirus”, not specifically Sars-COV2? I would have thought if this were true there would be a lot more (genuine) positive cases, even outside the usual common-cold season.

75551 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Drawde927, #366 of 1354 🔗

Roche reckon 5% for false positives.


“Studies have demonstrated that our test is able to detect very low levels of the SARS-CoV-2 virus with 95 percent certainty, and it does not detect other respiratory pathogens.”

75564 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #367 of 1354 🔗

erm… so 100,000 tests will give 5000 false positives – a sort of surge of cases…

Houston, we have a problem!

75570 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #368 of 1354 🔗

Do they actually state “false positives”, because if it was “false negatives” it would be a different issue to address?

75572 ▶▶▶ Anonymous, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #369 of 1354 🔗

The 5% isn’t the false positive rate (which will be much lower). This figure refers to the sensitivity i.e. whether it’ll pick up a genuine positive.

75573 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #370 of 1354 🔗

How do they know if there’s no gold standard for the SCV2 virus?

75675 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Cheezilla, #371 of 1354 🔗

There’s kind of a gold standard for true negatives which is just to run the test on pineapples and things.

But the problem is the false positives aren’t necessarily with the test itself. They’re contamination and human error.

But they really do need to calibrate the test on recovered patients (who can still have smashed up non-viable bits of virus lying around). Given that we just had an epidemic of SARS2 a couple of months ago this is likely to be a relatively large source of false positives.

75717 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to guy153, #372 of 1354 🔗

Clear. Thanks!

75580 ▶▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Awkward Git, #373 of 1354 🔗

Thanks.. that’s a LOT higher than I was expecting, and very worrying given that the government seem eager to impose local restrictions on the slightest excuse. If they aren’t making any attempt to take increased testing into account when making their calculations (and they can’t be that stupid, it must be intentional) they aren’t going to bother with the possibility of false positives!

I’m also doubtful of Simon Dolan’s claim, as I said if this were happening then it would pick up common cold infections, even this time of year this would result in far more cases being found.

75604 ▶▶▶▶ Anonymous, replying to Drawde927, 1, #374 of 1354 🔗

It’s not 5%, it’s probably more like 0.05%, the comment mixes up sensitivity and specificity.

75644 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #375 of 1354 🔗

Why the thumbs down? It is straight from their website and this is what they state as a false positive rate?

I never made it up. Check yourself, that is why the link is included.

75667 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Awkward Git, #376 of 1354 🔗

I thumbsed up to counteract the thumbs down (which wasn’t me 🙂 but I think that 95% is supposed to be sensitivity but they’re not very clear about it.

75680 ▶▶▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to guy153, 1, #377 of 1354 🔗

Reading their blurb the 5% is for both false positives and negatives so it balances out.

Some websites give false positive rates anywhere between 0.5% and 30% so pick a number.

I did a major internet search a few days ago looking for info on false positives and articles are getting very hard to find and are getting buried in the dross.

Easy to find the false negative sites that are getting pushed though.

I guess so that they can say “see, in reality there are a lot more cases than we are really finding”.

75688 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #378 of 1354 🔗

The false negatives are usually what you care about because you’re deciding whether to quarantine people or not.

If prevalence is so low false positives are an issue there isn’t a lot of point doing testing. Unless you’re a health minister who set himself stupid targets months ago when it might actually have had some use.

75663 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #379 of 1354 🔗

I think they’re claiming 95% sensitivity in that statement (in other words 5% false negatives).

They don’t give a figure for false positives but do mention contamination in the context of saying if you contaminate your samples it’s your fault and don’t blame them 🙂

It’s hard to put a number on the false positive rate. The BMJ seem to reckon about 5% is a reasonable figure to go with. It can’t be as bad as that or the ONS etc would be reporting around 5% positive.

One way to estimate it is actually to look at the noise in the UK testing. Since there has been no overall growth for several weeks any variation we see will include that caused by false positives and false negatives and so should give an upper bound.

75555 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Drawde927, 2, #380 of 1354 🔗

simply testing for “coronavirus”? Meaning it picks up the common cold? Regardless of government and PHE incompetence, that one would seem difficult to believe. If it’s true, then we all might as well throw in the towel now – it’s NEVER going to go away.

75571 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 1, #381 of 1354 🔗

No towel throwing for me – though there’s a few people I’d like to attack with a wet one!

75677 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Tenchy, #382 of 1354 🔗

It won’t give you a positive on any other coronavirus (except in some cases SARS1). If they said “coronavirus” they mean “the coronavirus” that everyone is fussing about right now.

75884 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #383 of 1354 🔗

..which is exactly what they want, for it never to go away, so we can be kept in constant fear…

75566 ▶▶ Anonymous, replying to Drawde927, 1, #384 of 1354 🔗

The false positive rate is not completely known yet (and there are different types of tests). However, the evidence suggests it’s very high, approaching 100%. The CEBM article on the Roche test mentions a claim of 99.8% specificity i.e. 2 in 1000 tests will yield a false positive. If you Google ‘ONS COVID-19 Infection Survey (Pilot)’ there’s some more info on the matter.
The ONS have noted that if the test had a 99.9% specificity then given the volume of testing the case numbers we are seeing are what we’d expect in the hypothetical of coronavirus not circulating. Given the huge volume of testing being taken place it seems pretty likely that the figures are off.

Not seen Simon Dolan’s tweet but find it unlikely, to be honest.

75683 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Anonymous, #385 of 1354 🔗

Great info thanks, I didn’t know the ONS had a figure for this.

75728 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Anonymous, #386 of 1354 🔗

Given that they locked down a huge chunk of Northern England for an extra 14 (or even only 5) “cases” and are ready to bring in the troops, the false positives are important and worrying.

75812 ▶▶▶ p02099003, replying to Anonymous, #387 of 1354 🔗

Sensitivity is the number of negative results when they should be positive (false negatives), specificity is the number of positive results when they should be negative (false positives)

75956 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to p02099003, #388 of 1354 🔗

Sensitivity is actually 1 – false negatives, and specificity is 1 – false positives. But I know what you mean.

75882 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Anonymous, #389 of 1354 🔗

Maybe, but I get suspicious whenever they change the language they are using – *nothing* is just ‘accidental’…

75878 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Drawde927, #390 of 1354 🔗

Everything else is irrelevant when 1 single case is treated as if it’s spreading exponentially and already infected millions.

75543 richard riewer, 7, #391 of 1354 🔗

Woke Culture pretends to be a tool to achieve Equality for all. On the contrary, it is a Totalitarian cultural/political movement embraced by nihilistic, wayward souls looking for answers to placate their existential pain.

75549 NickR, 2, #392 of 1354 🔗

Fabulous interview by The Fat Emperor with Dr Stadler Emeritus Prof of Immunology at Bern University. He explains so much about immunity. It’s on YouTube or get as a Podcast. https://youtu.be/GBRcK-od50Q

75552 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 16, #393 of 1354 🔗

here’s the latest leaflet ideas, after comments…

still very wordy but if doubting bedwetters are asking themselves questions – these answer them with simple bullet point facts… (do they do an A1 leaflet?)

Important Covid-19 Facts;

1. Most of the 46,000 who have unfortunately died with (not from) Covid-19 were very old and frail and would probably have passed away in 2020 without covid-19 – On average 11,000 people die naturally of old age every week in the UK (600,000 a year)

2. Of the 46,000 people who have died with (not from) covid-19 nearly 44,000 already suffered from life threatening health conditions. (pie chart?)

3. The average life expectancy in the UK is 80 years – the average age of people dying with (not from) covid-19 is over 80.

4. People under 60 with no serious health conditions have a 999.97 out if 1000 recovery rate from covid-19, and are SIX times more likely to die in a car accident than from covid-19 – the vast majority have no symptoms don’t even know they have the virus.

5. The vast majority of people who died with (not from) covid caught the virus in nursing homes and hospitals . (pie chart 50% nursing homes, 20% hospital, 30% community)

6. A surge in covid-19 testing will show a surge in covid-19 cases – the vast majority of people that test ‘positive’ do not know they have the virus. Because of the inaccuracies of testing 100,000 tests can show 1000 ‘false positives’ for people who do not have covid-19.

7. The healthy population with extremely low vulnerability to covid-19 were told to lockdown in their homes but the vulnerable people in nursing homes were not protected – elderly people with covid-19 were forced back into nursing homes, infecting the other frail residents.

8. It is estimated that over 20,000 people have already died as a result of the lockdown experiment (not covid-19) – people are not getting hospital treatment for heart disease, cancer screening, etc. The Government’s own research suggests that as many as 200,000 people will lose their lives as an unintended consequence of the lockdown experiment.

10. Sweden did not try the lockdown experiment and scientists now believe it has achieved community immunity with less deaths by size of population than the UK and many other lockdown countries Sweden chose not to wreck their economy with an experimental full lockdown. Sweden’s mistake, like the UK was not to protect the vulnerable as most who passed with (not from) covid-19 (70%) were in care facilities.

11. Sweden’s schools did not close and no children or teachers died of covid-19. Other Scandinavian schools re-opened 2 months ago with no uptick in covid-19.

12. Norway, Sweden, Finland and Holland do not recommend the public wear masks as there is no evidence that they help. Masks may cause other health issues.

13. Many of the world’s leading scientists say that the lockdown experiment did far more harm than any good, and will cost many more lives in the long term

14. Many thousands of British workers have already lost their jobs, and with the British economy predicted to contract further then many more thousands will be unemployed by the end of the year because of the lockdown experiment.

For more facts about covid-19 visit www………

75559 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, #394 of 1354 🔗

Or 5: 70% of the people who have died with (not necessarily because of) covid, caught it in hospital or a care home.

75583 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #395 of 1354 🔗

I was trying to avoid %ages after a previous comment but god idea…

75651 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Major Panic, 1, #396 of 1354 🔗

Yes. I saw it was for a pie chart.

I was just suggesting that you combine the nosocomial figures, so that the much smaller number of community transfers is emphasised.
Otherwise the community slice of the chart would be bigger than the hospital slice.

It isn’t just the government that can present stats to suit their narrative!

75661 ▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #397 of 1354 🔗

makes sense – combining the two, visually persuasive

75567 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Major Panic, 2, #398 of 1354 🔗

V good, sweden’s *initial* mistake was not to protect carehomes, then they did, which is why their figures then fell dramtically, I think I’m right in saying?

But I think risk comparisons really work (like car accidents, or numbers of people who die of other things, or comparative risks etc). Nick triggles chart on the BBC article ‘is it time to release the healthy from restrictions’ is a good graphic.

How about some actual numbers with this bit? “ people are not getting hospital treatment for heart disease, cancer screening, etc.” – 3.3m people have missed their cancer screening, 10m people are waiting for NHS care, A&E admissions are down by 60?%, cardiac doctors are warning xyz? etc

14 – isn’t it hundreds of thousands?

75581 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to BecJT, 1, #399 of 1354 🔗

Great thanks….
14 – probably, I started with millions and dropped to 1000s after a comment, 100s of 1000s is a good compromise…

75598 ▶▶ adele, replying to Major Panic, #400 of 1354 🔗

Nothing to add, but 9 is missing 😬

75600 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to adele, 1, #401 of 1354 🔗

yup, sorry should have said, i’v already dropped a few after comments, numbers are just for ref..

75752 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 2, #402 of 1354 🔗

You wont lose anything by trying to get each point down to 10- 15 words. Save a draft and try to crush it down. I’m not good with words so appreciate how hard it is. An editor would be brutal and get you down to brass tacks where every word counts.

75764 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, #403 of 1354 🔗

you are absolutely right – too much to say – not enough space

75874 ▶▶ tallandbald, replying to Major Panic, 1, #404 of 1354 🔗


Infographic templates like this, I find, are cheap, easily formatted to work with the subject and are easily digested by the brain-dead brain-washed we want to target.

76104 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Major Panic, 1, #405 of 1354 🔗

And it’s for all of those reasons and more that I think that this lockdown is more political than health related, even though it benefits both parties.

75556 Cheezilla, 15, #406 of 1354 🔗

My cleaner returned this morning. Hurray! She certainly discovered places that have been off my radar for the last few months. Blush!

Anyway, we got talking about the local lockdown and she said she wondered if the government were trying to provoke riots. She’d heard about the “major incident” in Manchester and had sussed that it meant troops available. She’s from Zimbabwe, so not so easily misled as the average Brit.

Well, I gave her a few facts and stats and sent her home with Not 1984 Brainwashed badge. Good start to the day!

75560 Ozzie, replying to Ozzie, 9, #407 of 1354 🔗

I have just posted the following on the General Discussion forum and would be grateful for your feedback. If it is a rubbish idea then also let me know!

I have just constructed a simple website to give people a heads-up on their rights not to wear a mask. It is located here: https://nomasks.godaddysites.com/

I have spoken to a number of people who do not realise that they don’t have to wear a facemask if they have a “reasonable excuse”. The creation of this is to put all the information in one place. Please let me know what you think?

I could do with more evidence of face masks not working – Google now favours face masks working where it didn’t a couple of weeks ago! Please post links to useful websites and I will add them.

I will get a proper domain name if people think this is a worthwhile endeavour.

Look forward to your comments!

75747 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to BecJT, #409 of 1354 🔗

Thanks BeeJT – I have added that as a link

75641 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ozzie, #410 of 1354 🔗

The links to the government info site claim page not found. Anyone else want to check it against an old link?

I found this very old one but it isn’t the one with the govt’s printable exemption card on:


75739 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Cheezilla, #411 of 1354 🔗

Thanks Cheezilla – I have now fixed the links.

75773 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ozzie, #412 of 1354 🔗
75568 Basics, replying to Basics, 14, #413 of 1354 🔗

Like all immature bullies sturgeon is a cry baby. Childish? How else to describe this emotional messaging:


The funny thing – funny in that sinister covid days kind of way- is that just a few weeks ago sturgeon ‘felt like crying ‘ when she saw a photograph taken through a telephoto lens of people enjoying a sunny day at the beach.


Frankly strugeon is unhinged and manipulative among other traits.

75586 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, 2, #414 of 1354 🔗

she must be a woman. ooops…. did i just say that?

75615 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 1, #415 of 1354 🔗


Not very impressive though is it for all the top five leaders in the world rankings apparently given to her. I mean its embarrasing tgat she turns on the water works like a toddler.

75624 ▶▶▶ Cruella, replying to Major Panic, 4, #416 of 1354 🔗

Yes, because all the men are doing such a masterful job…..

75628 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Cruella, 2, #417 of 1354 🔗

my remark was banter, there are plenty of examples of excellent leaders, male, female, various shades etc…

the wee Kranky is certainly an excellent politician

75678 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Major Panic, 2, #418 of 1354 🔗

I’d love some examples of excellent leaders of either sex. Ain’t noticed any in this fucking mess.

75681 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bella, -1, #419 of 1354 🔗


75694 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Major Panic, #420 of 1354 🔗

That’s a joke right?

75684 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Bella, #421 of 1354 🔗

why the good ladies and gentlemen on this blog!

75690 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bella, 1, #422 of 1354 🔗

that chap who runs Belarus

75692 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Major Panic, #423 of 1354 🔗

I don’t think he’s an excellent leader, just because he called something right.

75703 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Bella, #424 of 1354 🔗


75710 ▶▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 1, #425 of 1354 🔗

Taken as banter as shown by my first LS smiley I didn’t know I could!

It’s pathetic that a leader of a nation uses ‘I could weep’ manipulation once, but to do so twice over a similar incident twice in just a few weeks feels like a collapse of meaningful communication.

75748 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Basics, #426 of 1354 🔗

I just don’t take myself or anyone else too seriously, a lesson I’ve learnt through of life, I’m a country bumpkin, so I am behind the times, I do struggle with modern think…

75682 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Basics, 11, #427 of 1354 🔗

And this from the article:

“East Lothian Council warned people not to crowd their beaches” THEIR beaches!!! This sort of pompous attitude really makes me sick. The beaches are not theirs, they are OURS.

75686 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Tenchy, 1, #428 of 1354 🔗


75721 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Tenchy, 3, #429 of 1354 🔗

This is precisely right and illustrates where Scotland has got to. Everything public sector is allowing us to live under their leadership. Every turn it’s them leading people. They are servants and they work for us.

When this comes up in conversation with strangers I hear people say – and don’t ever forget they are servants.

It is really unpleasant.

76239 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Tenchy, #430 of 1354 🔗

Did the East Lothian Council build those beaches? No, comets, asteroids and stromatolites did. So buzz off!

75992 ▶▶ peter, replying to Basics, #431 of 1354 🔗

Stasi Sturgeon is King of the Karen’s. If you call her a tranny on youtube it gets instantly deleted by an AI bot. Hilarious

76107 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Basics, #432 of 1354 🔗

Maybe, deep down inside, she was envious.

75582 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 12, #433 of 1354 🔗

WHO – “no Silver Bullet” and we may never get one.

So basically get back to normal then because we cannot sit and wait years for something that may never arrive.

BBC yet again revel again in scaring the nation.

I really do fear for the sanity of many vulnerable people, this is just plan cruelty.

Why do the WHO have the right to present their daily scare stories?

76130 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to hotrod, #434 of 1354 🔗

Because they are the World Health Organization and many uninformed people worldwide look up to them and believe everything they tell us as if it was the word of God.

75585 Bart Simpson, replying to Bart Simpson, 24, #435 of 1354 🔗

Report from a Ghost Town Museum:

So I broke my boycott and went to visit the Titian exhibition at the National Gallery after the palaver of the phone booking. There were two queues – one for the permanent collection and the other for members and the Titian exhibition. I was assigned to the latter queue and the only one not wearing a muzzle.

Upon arrival, I was greeted with a dystopian and depressing scene – Sainsbury Wing gift shop closed and staff behind the counter either muzzled up or wearing a visor. The woman who served me printed my ticket then off I was.

Upstairs I had to go through a torturous one way system to get to the exhibition – it’s a small one of 7 paintings all of which was commissioned by Philip II of Spain from the celebrated artist and reunited under one roof after 500 years. Once I was finished, I went to the small pop up shop next door, was told to muzzle up, I replied I was exempt and that was that.

Inside the shop, I simply went for the catalogue then paid for it and was in and out in 2 minutes In the past, I would have done some browsing but now I just can’t be bothered.

On the way out, I decided to pop by to see the newly reopened Room 32. All throughout the gallery, it was almost deserted despite the queue outside. The whole gallery had the air of sadness and dystopia. God knows how it will be like when the mandatory muzzling begins on 8 August.

I was ready for any unpleasantness by carrying my phone with me in my hand, standing erect with head held high and walking briskly. Thankfully no-one bothered me but I suppose its because I’m an ethnic minority and the last thing many people want is to be accused of racism. The only blight was one woman who gave me a strange look but I stopped her by giving her a manic grin.

The gallery staff were lovely and seemed to be relieved at seeing one unmuzzled face that was smiling at them. When one of them asked me if I enjoyed my visit and if I will be back soon, I replied “Not until October and when this insanity is over”

75630 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Bart Simpson, 7, #436 of 1354 🔗

Sad for the staff!

75810 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #437 of 1354 🔗

Agree. They were lovely and seemed genuinely delighted at seeing visitors despite the pathetic number. I think as well they responded to me in a positive way seeing that they can see my face and that I was smiling and trying to make it easy for them too.

75719 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Bart Simpson, 6, #438 of 1354 🔗

I don’t think this insanity will be over by October unless the 1922 committee kick this lot out and start again.

75723 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Lili, 6, #439 of 1354 🔗

Furlough will be though…

75813 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Lili, 5, #440 of 1354 🔗

Its not only the 1922 committee but when the Great British Public had have enough and take matters into their own hands.

76135 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Lili, 1, #441 of 1354 🔗

Start prodding the 1922 Committee. Relentlessly.

76547 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #442 of 1354 🔗

Yes, arts and culture in this country brought to this, I am an artist and Art is not ‘virtual’ I am 70 and never thought it would come to this. Where is the bloody FIGHT! Well done for fronting amongst this insanity.

76718 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to David Grimbleby, #443 of 1354 🔗

You’re welcome. Its sad that none of the directors of the major museums and heritage sites are fighting this nonsense. They’ve been passive and seem not to realise that this will hasten their demise.

I work in the museums and heritage sector and my workplace is grappling with voluntary redundancies in the hope that they won’t have to make compulsory ones. Unfortunately the mandatory muzzling from 8 August in my opinion will make compulsory redundancies an option.

75587 Harry hopkins, replying to Harry hopkins, 17, #444 of 1354 🔗

If Bill and Melinda Gates are so concerned to help the world’s poorest population to better health and welfare why don’t they channel their billions towards a safe drinking water supply that one third of people so desperately need?

The irony here is that the WHO highlights this but now thinks lock downs, new vaccines and the suppression of cheap, proven and available drugs (i.e. hydroxachloraquine) are a better bet.

The supply of good, clean water to the two billion plus of people who need it is so obvious a path to better health it can only be dismissed by those who see no financial gain from it.

76142 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #446 of 1354 🔗

I watched a program on PBS many years ago about a woman from M.I.T. who invented an inexpensive device to extract groundwater for some villages in Africa. I forget the exact amount of money it cost to make this device but it was in the thousands, not millions or billions. Have not heard about it since. The United Nations goes for grand projects, not simple ones. In other words, it didn’t cost a lot of money so why bother. I’m sure this documentary is still around.

75617 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #447 of 1354 🔗

Who told you their agenda was helping the poor!? Controlling the poor and the population is the aim. Providing clean water would mean that all those poor people would live, love and poliferate and that it absolutely not the plan. Then they might want cars and electricity, cheap clothes and healthcare and all the things we have, which we can’t have, if they do too. Keep up! The Gates are eugenicists and fascists, nothing new there.

75625 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, 1, #448 of 1354 🔗

Yes. And decent toilets.
Buy your loo paper from these guys and help supply clean water and sanitary toilets to third world countries:

75639 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Harry hopkins, 8, #449 of 1354 🔗

To quote Bill (he is on film saying this):

“The best way to reduce population is to vaccinate children. People in the third world only have 3 or 4 children because they are unsure that they will live long term – if they vaccinate their children and become confident they won’t die, they only have one or two children.”

Even if this was a noble aim (it isn’t – why does he get to decide which parts of the world get to breed and which don’t?), it’s completely batshit crazy if you take him at his word.

A) The best way to achieve that aim is actually education and free contraception.
and B) Why do you need to make health interventions your INDIRECT method of population reduction rather than the above DIRECT methods?

The answer would be – MONEY. (and power. and kudos)

The people claiming pharma makes no profit on vaccinations are talking complete bullshit…. if you can get enough people to have your vaccine ;P
And what better ‘market’ for your vaccine than a continent full of poor people with corrupt governments who can’t question you even if they wanted to?

He’s vile.

75729 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Farinances, 5, #450 of 1354 🔗

I can get it and would laud him if he concentrated his efforts and money on vaccinating children in the 3rd world against the true killer diseases with proven, conventional vaccines, regardless of whether this reduces births or not.

But I can’t get or accept any wider mandate in those regards- he has no business mingling in the developed world’s vaccine affairs, promoting vaccination for non-true-killer diseases like e.g. Corona, financing the WHO, promoting unconventional and/or unproven vaccines or adjuvants against any disease anywhere.

75806 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #451 of 1354 🔗

This is thing – if he wanted to truly help people with vaccines, then….. go for it Bill. Why the population reduction agenda? Why do you care?
If he’s an environmentalist who thinks humans are poisoning the earth, then he should just admit it, join Extinction Rebellion, and dedicate himself explicitly to the cause.

This is why I scoff when people call him a philanthropist.

75883 ▶▶▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Farinances, 1, #452 of 1354 🔗

Gates is NOT a philanthropist. He IS a philanthrocapitalist.

76036 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Harry hopkins, #453 of 1354 🔗

Surely a philanthroeugenicist?

76146 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Cheezilla, #454 of 1354 🔗

A philanthrocapitalisteugenicistdogooder.

76166 ▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Farinances, #455 of 1354 🔗

I think he’s genuine. Maybe he got a bit overexcited about Covid but that’s understandable. There are diseases that need vaccines more than Covid and certainly viruses that are much better candidates for eradication. But Gates has done much more to fight those other diseases than we have.

I think the XR vision is for us to go back to the stone age. Gates instead wants everyone to live like an American which seems a worthy goal to me. Check out his travelling wave nuclear reactors.

75838 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, -1, #456 of 1354 🔗

But what he means by vaccination is to use a vaccine that contains a sterilising agent so that girls can never have children of their own. He was rumbled when people noticed he was only vaccinating women of child-bearing age..

75903 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, 1, #457 of 1354 🔗

Has this been proven?

75995 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Farinances, 1, #458 of 1354 🔗

No, it has been disproven, see guy153’s intervention several days ago.

76016 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, -1, #459 of 1354 🔗


76113 ▶▶▶ Kristian Short, replying to Farinances, 1, #460 of 1354 🔗

Hi. I like you. Gates’ reasoning is out anyway. Only economic security reduces birthrate, not health.

75979 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Harry hopkins, #461 of 1354 🔗

Too easy and too logical I think.

76549 ▶▶ David Grimbleby, replying to Harry hopkins, #462 of 1354 🔗

And cheap solar energy units.

75591 Bella, replying to Bella, 17, #463 of 1354 🔗

I thought GPs existed to help sick people. But if you can only see a GP if you’re not unwell why are we paying these people 130K + a year?

75626 ▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Bella, 3, #464 of 1354 🔗

Indeed. Think about care homes, where care staff are paid minimum wage and no sick pay have been going in every day. Elderly people need to be examined not just provided with telephone advice.

75631 ▶▶ Cruella, replying to Bella, 3, #465 of 1354 🔗

I wondered that before they became ‘remote’. In my house GP stands for ‘generally pants’.

75645 ▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Cruella, 6, #466 of 1354 🔗

Yes, try and get an appointment and you are given one 2 weeks away (by which time you have either died or got over it). Strangely, the receptionist will phone you out of the blue to offer (especially for over 50s) a check up for things that the G.P.s get government money for.

G.P.s surgeries are now run like small businesses. This is not to denigrate some brilliant doctors (my G.P. for 27 years recently retired and he was brilliant) but recently I have become a little concerned.

75653 ▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Laura Suckling, 10, #467 of 1354 🔗

To be fair this was true of my GP even before coronabollox. Can’t even remember the last time I went, even when I was in crippling pain with a tooth infection I just stayed at home and let it pass. Prob for a smear test which they have recenty called me in again for but which I’m (unwisely) putting off simply because I can’t stomach the idea of lying down half naked with a muzzle on while someone fiddles in my glory hole. Cringe. Like some very weird porn film.

75666 ▶▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Farinances, 2, #468 of 1354 🔗

Yes, sorry, I should have said before the coronabollox. Your post made me laugh, but its horrible!

75697 ▶▶▶▶▶ Chris John, replying to Farinances, 3, #469 of 1354 🔗

Keep your boots on just in case the lighting changes and the 70s prog rock starts to play, you may need to put foot and haul ass (and groryhole 😂 ) outta there!

75987 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Bella, 1, #470 of 1354 🔗

GPs are useless and even more so now. I can’t be bothered to register with one and have not had one for 4 years now.

75592 Silke David, 18, #471 of 1354 🔗

The uselessness of masks was made very clear to me today when I had loosened up the chocolate powder in my catering sized tin, and then had to cough as the chocolate powder still somehow found it’s way into my throat, despite my boss making us wear surgical masks.

75594 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 24, #472 of 1354 🔗

Another good contribution from Sherelle in The Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/03/second-wave-hysteria-smokescreen-no-10s-abysmal-failures/ ‘Let’s pause and take it in for a moment: more than half a year into this crisis, No 10 (and the media) is still allowing incomplete, poorly interpreted and potentially inaccurate data to be widely circulated, fuelling public hysteria’

Not ‘allowing’, in my view, but actively promoting and encouraging it, so we accept a rushed through and potentially deadly vaccine.

75619 ▶▶ Drawde927, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 15, #473 of 1354 🔗

It’s encouraging that the Telegraph has become so aggressively sceptical over the last week or so (especially the last few days). They were usually the most sceptical and questioning of the mainstream papers but over the last month or so they seemed to have toned down their attitude a bit, possibly not wanting to do too much to undermine the government and PM’s credibility.
I think now they realise that the party and PM they usually support, simply aren’t fit for purpose or worthy of their support any more!

Another good article by the same writer, written back in April, if it was an omnishambles then I don’t think there’s a word (printable or otherwise) to describe the current situation!

75635 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Drawde927, 5, #474 of 1354 🔗

Yes, agree. Interesting that the mood on Guido has also become distinctly less supportive of Boris and the government. Perhaps the diehard supporters, prepared to overlook issues such as Dominic Cummings and the ‘Barnard Castle Defence’ and the initial phase of lockdown, were happy to keep schtum on the basis that Brexit was going to be delivered. Either they have now realised they were sold a pup on lockdown, or on Brexit (it’s gone pretty quiet), or both?

75712 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #475 of 1354 🔗

Somehow the diehards are the ones that get my goat the most, because they in general know it’s nonsense and ought to know better. I mean, I voted for the PM and for Brexit, and am under no illusion that any other party would have handled this better, but I honestly couldn’t give a toss about Brexit now and can’t see how anyone would want to forgive the PM and others for what they have done.

75736 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to Julian, 7, #476 of 1354 🔗

I am a life-long Tory voter. Both my sons are natural Tory voters too. Elder son and husband voted for the Independent in the GE – he was the stood-down Brexit Party candidate and a decent local man. I would have voted for him had Brexit Party stood as such in our constituency. Husband voted for Boris vs Hunt in Tory leadership campaign, but said he did not trust Boris – he was right! Husband has cancelled his membership and told the local party they have lost four votes in this household. My mother, also a lifelong Tory voter has said she will never vote for them again. I agree with you completely, I could not vote for them again after presiding over this self-inflicted disaster. The suffering they have caused so needlessly to so many is unforgivable.

76069 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fiat, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #477 of 1354 🔗

My (Tory) MP is a decent man but I couldn’t vote for him now. It’ll be none of the above.

76186 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #478 of 1354 🔗

Agree completely and this will be carried out across the country.

75872 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #479 of 1354 🔗

I am often surprised by the level of aggressive trolling in the comments section on the Telegraph on any article disapproving of the government response. I am sure they are paid agitators as they all attack at the same time and use the same standard insults.

76030 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Darryl, #480 of 1354 🔗

Yes. They’re a troll magnet. You do get to recognise the names of the regulars so you can avoid encouraging them.

75597 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 27, #481 of 1354 🔗

It might be helpful to fellow LSs to bear in mind some basic principles when trying to change someone’s opinion. And I say this as a hypocrite because, even though I know what I’m about to suggest is effective, I still find myself arguing with people. The key points are that arguing doesn’t work and showing that you are angry doesn’t work (even though it might feel good). Instead, we need to try to show that we understand where the other person is coming from, what their fears are, and then how we can frame our different views in ways that will soothe their fears. Until the other person feels understood by you, they won’t budge. Indeed, they will dig their heels in, so as to justify their position because we are being nasty to them.
So, when it comes to dealing with individual coronaphobics, appreciate that they are frightened (the government has done a good job on them, so we shouldn’t be critical of them), show them that you understand, and only then begin to suggest ways which will help them to feel less frightened and then they can begin to take risks in “exposing” themselves.
With politicians, I think there is no mileage in conspiracy theories. We must assume that they made their decisions out of genuine concern (even if you don’t believe that, act as if you do) and that they have got themselves into a corner and can’t get out of it. Try to understand their fears: political embarrassment, another spike for which they will get the blame for not doing enough, or even just genuine fear for their citizens’ lives (some politicians are OK) or even for their own lives. Show that you understand those concerns. Only then can you pitch LS ideas to whatever politician you are trying to influence, pointing out how your alternative perspectives could address those fears. Asking questions and describing facts also helps. Example: I understand you are frightened of losing votes if we abandon the lockdown, but what will be the effect on your constituents if lockdown continues? Or, I can see that the prospect of another wave would terrify you, so tell me, what are the current figures for positive tests over the last three weeks and how do they relate to the number of tests carried out?

75612 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Aremen, 6, #482 of 1354 🔗

spoken by someone who clearly has experience of the real world – I have dealt with many types of people in my time, you are spot on!

75614 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Major Panic, 1, #483 of 1354 🔗

Thank you!

75629 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Aremen, 1, #484 of 1354 🔗


75664 ▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to Aremen, 3, #485 of 1354 🔗

What is the point of corresponding with your MP when they have zero input into government policy?

What makes you think there will ever again be free elections?

75732 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Martin Spencer, 1, #486 of 1354 🔗

If millions of people emailed their MPs to protest about that day’s madness, I think you’d start to see change. I know that’s unlikely, but…

75711 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Aremen, 5, #487 of 1354 🔗

You cannot reason with fanatics.
Least of all when they are part of a crowd.
No one ever changed their mind on Leave or Remain during the last infamous 3 years.

The people will only contemplate that it made a mistake when it suffers negative consequences of the Corona responses personally.
Politicians, not even then.

75740 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #488 of 1354 🔗

You can sow a seed and move on. It might be reasons of persinal satisfaction that we feel the need to convince people and see the change. That is forlorn. Simply give a killer point and move on.

If it’s good enough and simple enough it will be remembered and may nag. Time is what turns things.

75783 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #489 of 1354 🔗

Its amazing how some people will change to your way of thinking when it’s their idea

75794 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Jay Berger, #490 of 1354 🔗

Have a look at archive film of people raising their right arms to welcome Hitler.

… and try not to despair.

76158 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to RickH, #491 of 1354 🔗

Adolf Johnson?

76159 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to richard riewer, #492 of 1354 🔗

Adolf de Piffle

75742 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Aremen, #493 of 1354 🔗

I agree that with the genuinely fearful you need a more subtle approach. Not sure about politicians – some of them might be well-meaning but dim and lazy, but I doubt many. Most of of them probably know very well it’s all bollocks but won’t admit it. I see no reason to go easy on them. I want to try and make sure they lie awake at night, worrying they are committing mortal sins. Though possibly appealing to their self interest would be more effective – the trouble is, we’ve got no leverage at present.

What’s your recommended approach with my favourite group – the intelligent but apathetic/gullible?

75758 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Julian, 1, #494 of 1354 🔗

you can’t fix stupid

75792 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Major Panic, #495 of 1354 🔗

Maybe not, but surely if people’s lives continue to be disrupted they will start to apply their intelligence to the issue. Eventually? I can’t believe they really want to walk around with a mask on or be threatened with lockdowns forever.

75844 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Julian, 4, #496 of 1354 🔗

I recommend sarcastic remarks to highlight the absurdity. For example one of my favourite things to say is the sooner we get rid of this virus the sooner people can get back to dying properly.

75842 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Aremen, #497 of 1354 🔗

Aremen – excellent post. I’l copy it and save it to my computer to remind me how to respond in future. Thanks.

75993 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Aremen, #498 of 1354 🔗

I wish I can up vote this more than once.

75623 Yvonne, replying to Yvonne, 3, #499 of 1354 🔗

It wouldn’t surprise me if these curfews and restrictions at night are going to be used to conduct raids to capture dissidents of the government. They will then either be sent to re-education camps, or simply liquidated. This is the only way the worldwide Communist Revolution can completely takeover. We are living in truly dangerous and dark times.

75766 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Yvonne, #500 of 1354 🔗

Forget the ‘Communist Revolution’ : this- here, now – is the Tory Party on the totalitarian March!

Denial isn’t going to ease repression by the homely fascists.

75848 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Yvonne, #501 of 1354 🔗

All they actually need is to say you are suspected of being infected then they can ‘take’ you – it is in the coronavirus act..

75640 Stephen, replying to Stephen, 27, #502 of 1354 🔗

I believe that the government have decided that being draconian is popular. Focus groups and polls suggest this to them. So, that is how they are deciding to behave. The data is then analysed to fit the narrative.

Being draconian is popular because many people are still afraid. A constant of human history seems to be to support “tough” and authoritarian government when we are afraid. Fascism, Puritanism, Communism and such theologies were popular, especially during periods of fright. The people who supported these did not see themselves as evil. Obviously. Nor did politicians sell it to them as evil. People who burned “witches” thought they were highly moral and protecting the population. We now know that this was evil.

This is what scares me. This authoritarianism that we are seeing now has a perfect cover as a moral crusade to eradicate the virus. If someone really believes that doing that is the path of moral righteousness then they will go to any length to do so. Governments are then becoming intoxicated on being authoritarian and, at the same time are scared that if the music stops then there will be a reaction the other way. Against them. So they just keep doubling down and need to perpetuate the narrative. I believe it will only end after it gets worse.

I hope things do not come to this but The Reign of Terror in Revolutionary France, which was done to “protect people” took many months to end and led to great damage. Psychologically, this is a similar period in history.

75647 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Stephen, 10, #503 of 1354 🔗

wash – rinse – repeat…

Dictatorships are usually welcomed in initially

75648 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Stephen, 6, #504 of 1354 🔗

The authoritarians perpetrated the fear. That’s the whole point. Then they can justify the draconian measures. Hence the fear-mongering continues.

75762 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Stephen, #505 of 1354 🔗

Fascism, Puritanism, Communism and such theologies …”

Don’t forget Catholicism, faux- Patriotism … and general Conformism …

76043 ▶▶ Edward, replying to Stephen, 1, #506 of 1354 🔗

That is an excellent analysis.

75649 Emma, replying to Emma, 18, #507 of 1354 🔗

For what it’s worth, I’ve made a formal complaint to NHS England about the ‘denial’ of treatment from my GP, and I’ve copied it to my MP who has agreed to look into it.
After being messed around by my GP over a steroid injection for a frozen shoulder (all working from home because of Covid, and the one who could do it works two days a week and was on holiday), I went private and paid £210 for the privilege. I couldn’t bear the pain any longer, couldn’t drive, couldn’t work. The doctor who performed this for me also works PT as a locum GP. He turned out to have similar views to mine – I never miss an opportunity to express what bollocks I think the whole thing is. He agreed it was scandalous that GPs were still not back at work, but his thinking was that it was inertia. The GP practice where he had been doing locum work (on the phone obvs) only wanted him on Fridays, so the GP could have a long week-end. As we talked he got more and more annoyed about it and said he would complain.

75659 ▶▶ Emma, replying to Emma, 6, #508 of 1354 🔗

By the way there are no fewer than 31 GPs at my practice – apparently all ‘working from home’ according to the dragons on reception

75701 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Emma, 2, #509 of 1354 🔗

They are dragins too. We have the same breed here.

75821 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Emma, 3, #510 of 1354 🔗

Or from the golf course?

75818 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Emma, 2, #511 of 1354 🔗

My mum suffered with a frozen shoulder for several years during the 1970s. Doctor suggested heat pads, painkillers etc.

She started Iyengar yoga classes and mentioned the problem to the teacher, sho gave her a very simple exercise to do. Shoulder cured within a week, never returned and no injections required.

Maybe seek out a private osteopath or physiotherapist who knows how to manipulate the ligament back into its groove and can give you exercises to help it stay there.

76000 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #512 of 1354 🔗

If you want an osteopath, contact the University College of Osteopathy they have a clinic and might be able to help.

75830 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Emma, 1, #513 of 1354 🔗

One of my friends works as GP in a big practice. She said they got rid of all locums as they don’t need them any more. A lot of practices have done the same.

75656 Mark, replying to Mark, 6, #514 of 1354 🔗

I keep seeing excellent clips from Sky News Australia, but I have no way of knowing how representative they are of that channel’s overall coverage. This one is particularly good:

Australians have been filled ‘with fear and alarmism’: Alan Jones

Victorians cheering on the Andrews govt is a case of ‘Stockholm’s Syndrome’
Are there any UK/US TV channels apart from Fox that regularly, or even occasionally, carry opinion resistant to the coronapanic?

75700 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 2, #515 of 1354 🔗

Sky News Australia have featured Johan Giesecke before, and are also pretty strong on freedom of speech from the clips I have seen.

Not aware of any UK TV channel telling much truth. Deborah Cohen has done some good work for the BBC but she’s freelance not staff.

75727 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Julian, #516 of 1354 🔗

Pretty much just Sky News Australia and Fox regularly (but not always, by any means) allowing a fair hearing for the truth on the coronapanic, judging from the selections I’ve seen.

75753 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Julian, 1, #517 of 1354 🔗

Deborah Cohen … freelance not staff.”

That’s interesting, Julian. Where did you pick up that fact?

Certainly, her reporting (not particularly outrageous) has stood out starkly in contrast to quotidian BBC government promos.

75786 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to RickH, #518 of 1354 🔗

I may be wrong but I thought her website says she’s freelance.

75799 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dave #KBF, replying to Julian, 1, #519 of 1354 🔗

Her website does say she is a freelance reporter, no mention of her being a staffer for the BBC or elsewhere.

75707 ▶▶ Lockdown Truth, replying to Mark, 1, #520 of 1354 🔗

I was watching Sky Australia’s YouTube stuff in the early days of “lockdown” Alan Jones, Andrew Bolt etc but then YT shadow banned them from me by not making any suggestions. I have to find them and it’s not so easy. I watched a lot a couple of days ago and I think he’s drunk the Covid Coolaid ☹️

75724 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Lockdown Truth, 1, #521 of 1354 🔗

Judging from that Alan Jones clip today that I just linked, he absolutely has not drunk any Covid Coolaid. Excellent stuff.

76244 ▶▶▶ Gossamer, replying to Lockdown Truth, #522 of 1354 🔗

Nah, Alan Jones is as wonderfully spiky as ever. Haven’t had any problems with shadow banning either… when I start to type his name, it brings up the latest videos without a hitch.

75715 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Mark, #523 of 1354 🔗

One person to listen to in Australia is Gigi Foster an Economics professor at the University of New South Wales. The podcast is excellent and provides an well thought through economic and moral argument against lockdown – equally applies in UK. This argument has been missing in so much that we hear in the UK – science doesn’t provide the whole story.

Podcast here: https://shows.acast.com/the-bip-show/episodes/episode-4-prof-gigi-foster-did-covid-19-lockdowns-go-too-far

Also she was on the ABC’s Q&A show (I haven’t watched it yet, but my sister said that Prof Foster acquitted herself well): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d99c1Dydvts

75720 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Ozzie, #524 of 1354 🔗

Yes, I encountered Gigi Foster via one of these Sky News Australia clips a couple of days ago (I posted it here) and was very impressed.

75657 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 18, #525 of 1354 🔗

Hancock just said on BBC Radio 2 News: “Stories about over 50’s are inaccurate and speculation – of course, we’ve paused shielding because infections are so low

There it is, Health Secretary saying infections are so low that we can let the most vulnerable out…

75662 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #526 of 1354 🔗

Infections are so low
Infections are so low
But we need to look like we’re doing something so
Back into lockdown you go

75709 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Farinances, #527 of 1354 🔗

Very good!

75665 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Sam Vimes, 8, #528 of 1354 🔗

‘Paused’ shielding. Not ‘ended’ it.

75698 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to Lili, 11, #529 of 1354 🔗

Pause is the cividsinister word of choice. This is your new existence. Fucks in suits pause your life at will. Let it loom over you, it will be a relief when it is unpaused. Third reich.

75737 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Lili, 2, #530 of 1354 🔗

Yeah, spotted that, denying rumours of further shielding and saying we’ve paused the current lot. I don’t know why they even bother, I would have more respect for a flat out liar. At least it would be honest (!).

75770 ▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Sam Vimes, 11, #531 of 1354 🔗

MH has already lied on TV. He said the reports in the press that the government instructed the NHS to discharge sick elderly patients into unprepared care and nursing homes to free up 15,000 beds were untrue. But journalists and some politicians, and members of the public (including me) had already downloaded both instruction papers issued to the NHS on 19th March, before they disappeared off the internet.

75771 ▶▶▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to ShropshireLass, 3, #532 of 1354 🔗

What happens next, ie post Hancock lie

75777 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Dan Clarke, 3, #533 of 1354 🔗

Only one journal I have seen even picked up on it and published a very accurate and hard-hitting article. However, some MPs did and there was a very uncomfortable debate between BJ & KS, in which BJ did a bumbling defence of the paper and said MH’s comments were taken out of context. Since lying is so common amongst government ministers and appointed officials, I guess folk no longer take exception to the practice?

75857 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to ShropshireLass, 3, #534 of 1354 🔗

He lied in Parliament at the beginning, saying they had no plans to change the abortion law. Once Parliament shut, they changed the law – no debate…

75744 ▶▶ RickH, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #535 of 1354 🔗

Perhaps one hopeful dynamic is that self-serving wankers like Hand-cock (pun intended) can be scared when people suss out their idiocy.

75793 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Sam Vimes, 6, #536 of 1354 🔗

If infections are low, they can let out the North of England and call off the troops!

76190 ▶▶ Ruth Sharpe, replying to Sam Vimes, 1, #537 of 1354 🔗

So, there’s also no need for face masks or locking down Manchester and parts of West Yorkshire. Just another inconsistent comment to add to all the rest.

75668 A. Contrarian, replying to A. Contrarian, 25, #538 of 1354 🔗


Two thirds of Europeans would rather cancel a holiday than wear a facemask outdoors.

75704 ▶▶ Julian, replying to A. Contrarian, 17, #539 of 1354 🔗

Interesting. Governments take note! Also, pro-maskers take note – if you don’t want to wear one on holiday, outdoors, why do you accept wearing one here, in shops, given that tomorrow it might come outdoors too.

75745 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to A. Contrarian, 8, #540 of 1354 🔗

That’s actually great news. As an avid traveler, it’s one of the things I cannot and will not do while masking is mandatory on airplanes, shops, beaches, etc. It makes me very sad to think about my life without travel, but I will not comply. The thing is, it’s very hard to know if people aren’t traveling because they’re too scared despite all of the “safety” measures, or because they won’t travel under draconian conditions. I was thinking it’s more the former, but this survey gives me some hope it’s the latter.

75778 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #541 of 1354 🔗

Two thirds of Europeans would rather cancel a holiday than wear a facemask outdoors.

They perfectly know that… you can open your shop but you will have no costumers…

They win.

76177 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Castendo, #542 of 1354 🔗

What a polling question that was.

75790 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to A. Contrarian, 2, #543 of 1354 🔗

They have more sense than their governments.

75864 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to A. Contrarian, #544 of 1354 🔗

So Bingo! The government gets what it wants for its net zero plans – people stop travelling abroad…

75871 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Carrie, 2, #545 of 1354 🔗

Ah yes, zero emissions, but trashed economy, clever

76184 ▶▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Dan Clarke, #546 of 1354 🔗

The only Net Zero that we might possibly achieve if this insanity never ends is Zero reasons to keep on living. All the other Net Zeroes are just the impossible to achieve pipe dreams of delusional people.

75876 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to A. Contrarian, 3, #547 of 1354 🔗


Looks like Sánchez shot himself in the foot- declaring Spain was safe for tourists, then making nappy wearing mandatory everywhere.

75885 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Margaret, 4, #548 of 1354 🔗

Oops-should have written face-nappy, although who knows what’s coming next??!!

76009 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to A. Contrarian, 1, #549 of 1354 🔗

This should be publicised more – its people voting with their wallets and feet much like the ghost town shops and supermarkets here.

Goes to show that many people are not prepared to accept any more crap. We need a bigger push back to force TPTB to listen.

76074 ▶▶ jrsm, replying to A. Contrarian, 4, #550 of 1354 🔗

The government of Madeira just declared muzzles everywhere mandatory and immediately hotel cancellations skyrocketed. They still went ahead anyway.

76169 ▶▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to jrsm, 2, #551 of 1354 🔗

That’s the problem. Even if people vote with their feet, they don’t seem to care and nothing changes…

77099 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to A. Contrarian, #552 of 1354 🔗

That’s because there’s an agenda tha we’re not party to.

75679 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 1, #553 of 1354 🔗

This is relevant – The Diagonal Steamtrap


75947 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to mhcp, #554 of 1354 🔗

Brilliant. Still grinning!

75705 G M, replying to G M, 4, #555 of 1354 🔗

Many here may already have read it, but I do recommend Bernard-Henry Levy’s short book on “Madness in the time of coronavirus”. Amongst other thought-provoking observations, he looks carefully at the dangers (originally identified by Plato) of allowing a medical/scientific authority to take over the leadership of a state, and looks back to the powerful doctors of 1930s France who were so keen on eugenics, as a way of “helping” the whole of humanity of course!

75734 ▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to G M, 7, #556 of 1354 🔗

I read it as well. Now I’m having the shit scared out of me watching David Icke on London Real with Brian Rose. I’ve been keeping strange bedfellows these days — people I would never have listened to pre-Covid. I was just a middle-aged, regular person living a good life before mid-March and now conspiracy theorists are making perfect sense! Last night I listened to Icke’s March 18th interview with Rose, which was prescient, and now the interview he did yesterday. While it is scary, there are messages of hope as well — like if huge numbers of people do not comply, the psychopaths and idiots can’t win. A simple example he uses is the hoards of people who flock to the beaches despite all of the stupid warnings. The state simply can’t control that many people not complying; same with the protest in Berlin yesterday. Anyway, it’s a great watch for people on this site.

75938 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Lisa from Toronto, #557 of 1354 🔗

Link would have been nice.

75941 ▶▶▶▶ Lisa from Toronto, replying to Cheezilla, #558 of 1354 🔗
75706 stefarm, replying to stefarm, 9, #559 of 1354 🔗

Fucking hell, just switched over to bbc1 evening news, if the average person is watching this shit we are doomed. Blatant fear mongering and brainwashing. Channel 4 tonight New: Race Against The Virus The Hunt For A Vaccine.

75731 ▶▶ Basics, replying to stefarm, 4, #560 of 1354 🔗

Beware of C4! It has lasting effects!

75735 ▶▶ RickH, replying to stefarm, 7, #561 of 1354 🔗

Yes … I noticed that one not to watch .

Where the f. has proper investigative journalism gone? Is the MSM now almost denuded of principled, skilled journalists?

75776 ▶▶▶ Lms23, replying to RickH, 4, #562 of 1354 🔗

“Is the MSM now almost denuded of principled, skilled journalists?”

Pretty much.

75782 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Lms23, 2, #563 of 1354 🔗

Deborah Cohen has done a couple of worthwhile pieces, one on Newsnight about Leicester and one on the WHO’s mask u-turn being political rather than medical/scientific

75934 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, #564 of 1354 🔗

She did a good Newsnight article about Ferguson’s dodgy “science” three months ago. After that, we didn’t see as much of her!

75743 ▶▶ anon, replying to stefarm, 2, #565 of 1354 🔗

turn that shit off brother

75853 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to anon, 1, #566 of 1354 🔗

I did don’t worry, couldn’t turn it off quick enough. Made me feel tom n’ dick

75901 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to stefarm, #567 of 1354 🔗

total berks’

75780 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to stefarm, 2, #568 of 1354 🔗

That doctor was a liar.

Anyone could see the hospital behind her was EMPTY AS THE GRAVE.

75781 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, 1, #569 of 1354 🔗

(Don’t come from me my mum still watches this swill)

75858 ▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Farinances, 3, #570 of 1354 🔗

The young doctor who was in hospital with pneaumonia after being such a martyr doing her job saving lots of lives???, boo hoo……fuck off, utter crap.

75808 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to stefarm, 4, #571 of 1354 🔗

We can cancelled direct debit to BBC 2 months ago. Had enough of their propaganda.

76189 ▶▶▶ richard riewer, replying to JulieR, #572 of 1354 🔗

Defunding of the BBC should be coordinated on a grand scale. Several severe blows. Thousands upon thousands, minute by minute.

75877 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to stefarm, 5, #573 of 1354 🔗

If you enter a boxing ring—expect to be punched! Avoid at all costs the MSM! No matter how much of a sh*t show it is if you so much as snatch at it it will try to dig its claws into you.

75713 Tom Blackburn, 15, #574 of 1354 🔗


75716 ShropshireLass, replying to ShropshireLass, 5, #575 of 1354 🔗

Several members asked me to post the reply from my MP (if I received one) to my formal letter challenging the plans for mask wearing to be extended, which had attached 2 pages of 12 evidenced points (which I provided to LS)
Sent: 19 July 2020 20:59
To: DUNNE, Philip
Cc: philip@philipdunne.com
Subject: Government’s new regulation for the general public to wear masks – a challenge

Importance: High

‘Dear Mr Dunne,

Please find my 1 page challenge letter attached with 2 additional pages containing 12 points against this new mandate, which I have evidenced for your information.
I have also posed a few questions about the evidence used to support the government’s changed position and would be very appreciative of receiving this or links to said evidence, which I would like to share with interested parties.
Yours sincerely…’

Received his reply late this afternoon (see below). The robust, reputable medical evidence based on clinical trials for which I asked details or links that supports and informed the government’s change of position is notably absent – he just makes a general reference to SAGE. He ignores the links I provided, plus quotes from relevant persons advising against masks. He also ignores my points about disability discrimination, and the information I copied from another LS member who had referenced the report which placed retail staff affected by the virus far lower than many other workers, including government admin staff.
Essentially – a typical politician’s fudged and vague response when they do not have the grounds to counter a challenge from one of their constituents.
‘Dear ….
Thanks for your message.

It is the case that the scientific advice was not clear-cut about the merits of face coverings until recently.

After careful consideration of the latest scientific evidence from the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE), the government confirmed face coverings can help reduce the risk of transmission in some circumstances, and can prevent further spread of the virus, reducing the risk from wearers infecting others. This is particularly important when people with coronavirus can present asymptomatically.

So I support the steps the government has taken on this. Visiting shops last Saturday, wearing my face covering, I was struck by the high degree of compliance by others entering shops.

If you disagree with the policy, you can of course choose to shop by other means. In doing so, you will be helping to keep safe the sales and retail assistants who have kept our nation fed and supplied throughout this pandemic, for whom the death rate has tragically been much higher than the general population.

I hope you are keeping safe and well through this ghastly pandemic.

With kind regards

Rt Hon Philip Dunne
MP for Ludlow’

75726 ▶▶ RickH, replying to ShropshireLass, 10, #576 of 1354 🔗

“MP for Ludlow” … and time-serving twat on a sinecure.

75738 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to RickH, 8, #577 of 1354 🔗

A millionaire farmer, in a very rural constituency, who still has no idea how most of us live (average income for those who still have jobs) is £17,000 per year, but most are part time, or zero hours contracts, or seasonal positions. The £17k is skewed by a few managers, local government senior staff, and commuters with better paid jobs in Birmingham.

75800 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to ShropshireLass, 3, #578 of 1354 🔗

… and in the end, the kicker is that a majority voted for him. There was no compulsion in that.

75733 ▶▶ anon, replying to ShropshireLass, 13, #579 of 1354 🔗

what a fucking outrageous response.

these people NEED TO GO!

75751 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to anon, 9, #580 of 1354 🔗

Agree. It took me over a day to write my letter and list the 12 points with care to make sure it was factual and each one supported with sound evidence. Found the reply patronising, and quite honestly really insulting. I am disabled and am exempt from wearing a mask but have already suffered a lot of abuse because I am not wearing one, in spite of 99% of locals not wearing one until the regulation came into force on 24th. Now they are all suddenly passionately in favour of them saying people will be killed as a direct result of others not wearing masks!

75779 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to ShropshireLass, 4, #581 of 1354 🔗

it is entirely patronising.

I do wonder what they have on shits likes like him. nasty man.

keep your strength up when it comes to dealing with muzzles and the muzzled!

75807 ▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to anon, 11, #582 of 1354 🔗

Doing my best, but was a little hurt this morning to receive a FB personal message via Messenger in response to my querying a photo someone posted of a notice on our village shop door. The notice was directed at people who were exempt for disability or medical reasons. It said they would need to let staff know in advance and the staff would endeavour to bring the items they needed outside to them and payment would also be taken outside. Loads of locals ‘liked’ this and said how helpful and kind it was whilst keeping the rest of the local customers safe. I explained this could actually be perceived as discriminatory because it was barring exempt people from shopping in the store like everyone else, they could not browse, and were being made to wait on the pavement in all weathers. I asked how would people feel if it said black people or muslims instead of exempt people for example? My query attracted lots of nasty comments and one person even sent me a personal FB message saying “Nobody likes you”. I’ve lived in the village for 23 years and been involved in caring for others and setting up a charity to support disadvantaged, sick and disabled locals, so thought such responses were particularly unkind.

75869 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #583 of 1354 🔗

who sent you that message on fb? that’s totally unacceptable. I would screenshot what you have as this sounds discriminatory.

perhaps you could could send on to your mp and see if he dismisses you again in such a patronising manner

could be worth documenting it. perhaps on here though you might need to do some redaction

75919 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to anon, 3, #584 of 1354 🔗

I deleted the comment and blocked the sender. Told myself it reflected more on the sender than the receiver, and was untrue anyway as I have quite a few longstanding friends from those i helped in previous years, as well as friends from former work and social networks. So in theory someone sending a message saying “Nobody Likes You” should not have the power to hurt. (It did, but I’m hoping repeating the above facts will erase the hurt).

75870 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to ShropshireLass, 3, #585 of 1354 🔗

That’s crap, I’m in Shropshire too, it’s Hill Billy country with regard to this as far as I can tell. Show them this: (toolkit linked from here is excellent) http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/face-covering-litigation-threats-and-administrative-headache/

75802 ▶▶▶▶ JulieR, replying to ShropshireLass, 3, #586 of 1354 🔗

I also receive a similar patronising reply from my MP.
He didn’t even bother writing my name.

75804 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #587 of 1354 🔗

… but, if you’re honest, I doubt that you will have been surprised. That’s what’s so sad.

75824 ▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to RickH, #588 of 1354 🔗

Disappointed. His reply to my letter about protecting our food standards, farmers and farm animal welfare in the light of impending new trade deals was very long, detailed, informative and he promised to do his best to address this issue. I expected at least some acknowledgement of my points and that he would try to find out details of the new scientific evidence the government said had emerged to support mask wearing.

75749 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to ShropshireLass, 6, #589 of 1354 🔗

Dear Ms. Shropshire,

[same old boiler plate shit]


Your MP.

75757 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #590 of 1354 🔗

I was also p…off with his reference to a message, when it was a properly constructed, formal letter with an appendix attached containing the 12 points. Hardly a message as he put it.

75765 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to ShropshireLass, 3, #591 of 1354 🔗

Compliance high – so weak! This point is pure irrelevant BS. People obey law because people cannot afford 100 nor want to cause a scene via social shaming. His spin isnt even clever or skilful. Dunne. Done.

75750 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to ShropshireLass, 9, #592 of 1354 🔗

He’s an arsehole extraordinaire, and a pompous twat.

75755 ▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to ShropshireLass, 2, #593 of 1354 🔗

From Wiki – Philip Dunne was educated at Abberley Hall School , followed by Eton College and Keble College, Oxford , where he was awarded a degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics . At Oxford he was part of the Bullingdon Club .

Need we say more!

75761 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to ShropshireLass, 9, #594 of 1354 🔗

What a twat.

75785 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ShropshireLass, 4, #595 of 1354 🔗

What an arse!

75795 ▶▶ Hubes, replying to ShropshireLass, 6, #596 of 1354 🔗

Ghastly pandemic. What a complete cunt

75797 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to ShropshireLass, 4, #597 of 1354 🔗

Dear me that is bad.

75801 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ShropshireLass, 2, #598 of 1354 🔗

Jesus wept. What a maroon and deserves to lose his seat

75910 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Bart Simpson, 1, #599 of 1354 🔗

Sadly I think he has held the seat since he was in primary school. We have had some very good alternative candidates with sensible, logical, practical solutions to local, regional and national problems, with lots of vigour and enthusiasm to make a genuine difference. None has ever managed to get close to Dunne’s vote results.

75927 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to ShropshireLass, 4, #600 of 1354 🔗

UK Column are collating responses from MPs. Especially boilerplate ones. Maybe forward your letter and his reply to them?

76015 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ShropshireLass, #601 of 1354 🔗

That’s the trouble when the seat is as safe as houses.

75815 ▶▶ Paul, replying to ShropshireLass, 4, #602 of 1354 🔗

What an utter arsehole !,what a patronising response to you when you spent time researching and composing a factual letter to him,the contempt these people have for us is much deeper than I ever imagined.

75822 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to ShropshireLass, 3, #603 of 1354 🔗

Most likely a standard reply from his PA, which is what I’ve had. They never answer the question about the deaths of retail assistants,which I believe is zero. All lies anyway, and at the moment they are getting away with it.

75835 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to ShropshireLass, 5, #604 of 1354 🔗

Email the MP a link to this page and tell him to search for his name.

75905 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Tenchy, 1, #605 of 1354 🔗

Ha, ha, ha! Tempted !

75860 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #606 of 1354 🔗

The turnout is gonna be so bad at the next election.

75873 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, 1, #607 of 1354 🔗

if we ever get another election…

75865 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #608 of 1354 🔗

He’s my MP too, he’s not a rebel, ever. I’ve met him several times, he’s actually very pleasant, but if you look at his voting record, he never, ever, ever votes against his own team. I’ve been driving him potty too, he’s now ignoring me.

76013 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to ShropshireLass, 1, #609 of 1354 🔗

My MP never even replied to my email. I will never vote for him.

75725 Major Panic, replying to Major Panic, 21, #610 of 1354 🔗

The fabulous couple from the North East who own Hayes Travel and rescued so many branches and employees of Thomas cook was just on Sky – fabulous people being fucked over by the Bozo the clown show…

75760 ▶▶ Basics, replying to Major Panic, 11, #611 of 1354 🔗

Perhaps Business is begining to rally. Dragons Den Banantine (sp?) Has annouced he’s offski from Scotland after Sturgeon says gyms will be clised until at least 15 Seotember. Coverage across many papers today.

These Businesses are perhaps some of the most astute and wise. They run circles around your hancock hunt goves.

75772 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 1, #612 of 1354 🔗

he fucked the local gym up where I am so I hope he leaves England too!

75898 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Basics, 3, #613 of 1354 🔗

Business leaders and trade bodies were and are a complete failure since March.
Only topped by the unions.

75939 ▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #614 of 1354 🔗

This is one of the strangest things of this crisis,the almost complete silence of business leaders as the mad destruction of our economy takes place.

76018 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 3, #615 of 1354 🔗

Agree. Its as if they have a death wish and are not prepared to fight to keep their businesses running and afloat.

75768 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #616 of 1354 🔗

Sure there was a poll that said 99% of the people would refuse to sit next to an academic, anywhere.

75775 ▶▶ anon, replying to Dan Clarke, #617 of 1354 🔗

roughly the same percentage they managed to muzzle so cancels out, can we all go back to normal now?

75791 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Dan Clarke, #618 of 1354 🔗

Do academics smell – or/and- maybe its their breath

75784 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 9, #619 of 1354 🔗

So in Belgium masks are to ‘discipline the people’, Sinister.

75787 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #620 of 1354 🔗

Whips are far better for discipline…

75814 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Major Panic, 1, #621 of 1354 🔗

Some have to pay for this…

75831 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Nick Rose, 2, #622 of 1354 🔗

worth every penny

75805 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Dan Clarke, 10, #623 of 1354 🔗

Here in Portugal the narrative is: if we all wear masks the virus would go away…

We are sooo effed with this voodoo xhit..

75811 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Castendo, 1, #624 of 1354 🔗

I think people did think in the beginning that if they complied ……

75788 AllieT, replying to AllieT, 5, #625 of 1354 🔗

Totally agree about the continued skeleton GP service. I work in a surgery & while there are now more nurses appts resumed mainly blood tests dressings & smears so far (many others still suspended for other long term conditions) GPs are doing phone calls but some are, to be fair, inviting patients down to be seen and a fair proportion of these are elderly. They are all working from the surgery not home. From what I hear the official line is to see as few in the building as poss but some of our Drs just disregard this. We have to take everyone’s temperature at the door including delivery drivers & ourselves with a hand held device which is wildly inaccurate!

75796 ▶▶ Major Panic, replying to AllieT, 4, #626 of 1354 🔗

I think GPs are just drug dealers, if you are unwell – get to A&E, but wear a mask..

75809 ▶▶▶ AllieT, replying to Major Panic, 6, #627 of 1354 🔗

Mr T injured his toe at the w/e we didn’t bother with GP went to local minor injuries hosp today he had x ray & all sorted quite quickly. Would recommend them. Cut out the middle man no phone calls or sending your photo in.

75856 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to AllieT, 2, #628 of 1354 🔗

Interesting, where does the PSED obligation fall do you know? Public sector equality duty, and risk assessments? Is that on the practice, or higher up (CCG say?). I’m unclear on where the buck stops. The reason I say that is I think for risk assessment purposes you can’t risk assess it on the threat of covid transmission (or we’d be closing services left and right on the risk of catching TB, or measles or whatever), covid is not a ‘a serious and imminent danger’ legally I think. But someone somewhere must have risk assessed it and decided suspending smears, or breast exams or whatever vs the risk of covid was a price worth paying, I don’t think that would stand up to scrutiny. I’m checking the legal basis but I think already GPs would fall foul of equality impact assessments.

Also do you know where I’d find out what rights patients have?

(it was me who asked the question in today’s update)


75893 ▶▶▶ AllieT, replying to BecJT, 2, #629 of 1354 🔗

I would think our Practice Manager follows advice from CCG which incidentally also meets in one of our surgeries but they must be subject to Public health England who notoriously declared anyone who’d had Covid subsequently died of it! As staff we all had to have a ‘Covid Risk Assessment’ asked to declare any long term conditions (I am not a patient where I work) we then were given a score which dictated how much patient contact we had. Sounds similar to the over 50’s screen mad Boris is considering. There is the PALs ( Patient Liaison Service) not sure if this would help you. I would make a huge fuss that your Dad needs immediate & effective GP involvement at our surgery those who make waves usually get results. All the best!

76094 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to BecJT, 1, #630 of 1354 🔗

I’m spending some time with other this week (first time since Christmas, since she normally lives 300 miles away) and I’ve been able to talk to her about this – she’s a GP of 46 years’ experience.

She thinks that PHE and the MoH are absolutely delighted about how much more efficient GPS can now be – they’re “seeing” about twice as many patients over the phone and on video calls than they ordinarily could. She’s also absolutely convinced they’re missing a huge amount and patients will suffer as a result. It’s bad enough for someone with her experience, but she says she can’t imagine how the juniors are every going to be able to do it, or to learn to do their jobs properly. She’s just about ready to give up and retire, because this is the kind of medicine she wants to practice.

Anyway, from what I can gather, they feel they must follow CCG guidance, but that certainly doesn’t stop necessary face to face appointments from taking place. Sounds like your father’s GP is being negligent, frankly.

75816 AN other lockdown sceptic, 45, #631 of 1354 🔗

I can’t quite believe that all this nonsense is still continuing after something like 20+ weeks. It’s like a bloody rollercoaster. Just when you think you’ve hit peak lunacy, something else comes along. E.g. quarantining everyone over 50! Good luck with that one.

My poor wife gets my verbal rage whenever some new ludicrous turn is taken by Kim Jon Boris and his Apparatiks / Useful Idiots.

My wife is a sceptic too and a total legend for her support.

In spite of all the continuing rubbish, here are some things that have cheered me up over the last week or so and quelled the rage:

  • This site. I was on here at the beginning but dipped out mid June time as I was just getting too bummed out. I’ve been reading the site again over the last few weeks and it still helps a lot, as it did early on, to know that I’m not going mad and others see things as I do. Thank you everyone on here and of course the legend Toby Young
  • I come across a fair few 70+ year olds in my work. With a few exceptions, the vast majority are privately very sceptical and are just getting on with their lives plus flexible the rules. They are inspirational.
  • Litre bottles of builders tea and 850g dairy milk chocolate bars (both a constant since March)

Hang in there fellow Lockdown Sceptics.

The truth will out.

75819 Polemon2, replying to Polemon2, 10, #632 of 1354 🔗

Stupidest sign of the day. Small village cafe/coffee shop.

“Please wear a mask until sitting down”

75825 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Polemon2, 2, #633 of 1354 🔗

Costa are like that – at least in York, anyway.

75828 ▶▶ anon, replying to Polemon2, 2, #634 of 1354 🔗

“but don’t sit on your mask”

“unless you are flatulent”

75829 ▶▶ annie, replying to Polemon2, 2, #635 of 1354 🔗

Six foot vertical distancing?

75833 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Polemon2, 2, #636 of 1354 🔗

But…. They’re exempt from mask bullshit aren’t they? (Legally)

75834 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Polemon2, 4, #637 of 1354 🔗

Coroni only attacks people standing up don’t you know!

75854 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Harry hopkins, 6, #638 of 1354 🔗

So you’re sat there talking animatedly with someone at a table. Potentially many other people. According to them you will be spreading the deadly lurg to each other in your talk fumes. And yet…. As soon as you stand up, away from those talk fumes, you become dangerous? ? ?

75839 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Polemon2, 3, #639 of 1354 🔗

They’ve legally banned standing up in bars and restaurants in Greece yesterday, my ex pat friends are absolutely gutted, it’s economic armageddon over there!

75849 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BecJT, 3, #640 of 1354 🔗

Everyone will ignore it TBF

75894 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Farinances, 1, #641 of 1354 🔗

Well Greeks will be they now have 9k bed wetting Brits living on the island who are all out of work and drunk on cheap barrel wine and have nothing better to do than be the corona virus nazis. They are terrified of British travellers apparently, having seen all our disease ridden beaches.

75899 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BecJT, 1, #642 of 1354 🔗

Oh God, surely they have more sense. Surely?

76194 ▶▶ richard riewer, replying to Polemon2, #643 of 1354 🔗

What a joke!

76390 ▶▶ Trish, replying to Polemon2, #644 of 1354 🔗

And then put it back on when you get up, after having contaminated it with your hands taking it on and off and storing it in your pocket or wherever.

75826 annie, replying to annie, 14, #645 of 1354 🔗

Much rejoicing among our church congregation in West Wales, subject to the Bedwetting Bishop of St David’s.
Here are the conditions for our one, and so far only, planned open day:

This opening comes at the end of a very long process of preparation. First our Standing Committee (the Churchwardens and Officers of St Mary’s) have met a number of times to plan all the necessary arrangements: – the Children’s Corner, Font Aisle, Shop and Friends area will be cordoned off; all books, pamphlets, kneelers and pew runners must be put away; directional arrows, spacing signs and hand-washing facilities need to be introduced; the Votive Candle and Prayer Area must be cordoned off (on no account are candles to be lit), as will St Thomas’ Chapel and the whole South Aisle. For social spacing many pews will need to be restricted and taped out of bounds.

With all our plans and equipment ordered and ready, we then had to submit a Risk Assessment to the Archdeacon, who twice rejected our application until we had got it right!

Strange to say, the nearby Catholic church doesn’t mind a bit if you light any number of candles, for a modest charge of 20p each.

Oh, and back in England, this is going to be the drill for taking Communion:
You sanitise your hands.
You take off your face nappy.
You sanitise your hands.
You receive communion.
You sanitise your hands.
You replace your face nappy.
You sanitise your hands.

I am not joking, this is from the horse’s mouth.

I think I’ll convert to the Cult of Sanity.

75832 ▶▶ Mark, replying to annie, 5, #646 of 1354 🔗

Because Christianity was always very clear that the most important, most over-riding thing in life is to desperately try to live forever.

75911 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #647 of 1354 🔗

Well, the idea is that our loving father only gives us once chance to get it right. And he’s watching us all the time (from a distance!)
So if you don’t think you’ve gained his approval, it’s eternal damnation for you.
Wouldn’t you want to postpone that for as long as possible?

75837 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to annie, 1, #648 of 1354 🔗

God that sounds awful, but see? There’s the dreaded ‘risk assessment’ again!! I’d ask to see that if you can. See here: http://www.laworfiction.com/2020/07/risk-assessments-an-important-chink-in-the-lockdown-armour/

75845 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to annie, 3, #649 of 1354 🔗

on no account are candles to be lit”

LOL! Do flames release the Wuhan Lab Flu virus now?

76012 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, 1, #650 of 1354 🔗

You’d think candles would ward it off!

75846 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to annie, 3, #651 of 1354 🔗

It really is time to go Henry VIII

Set up your own church in your house.

I say that like it’s easy but…..

75862 ▶▶ Bella, replying to annie, #652 of 1354 🔗


76034 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, 2, #653 of 1354 🔗

You should try to channel the spirit of the early Christians – go back to the DIY house churches and perhaps that way Christianity might have a chance to return to its roots.

76038 ▶▶ Alci, replying to annie, 1, #654 of 1354 🔗

Hilarious if it weren’t so tragic.

Good piece on the (bad) state of the C of E by Giles Fraser: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/03/church-england-determined-kill-parish-church/amp/

“The parish, for centuries the bedrock of the Church of England’s engagement with communities throughout the land, is being sacrificed to a growing and inward-looking centralised Church structure that is steadily sucking resources away from it. And though it’s hard for an old Leftie like me to accept, it’s a parable about the dangers of nationalisation.”

76401 ▶▶ Trish, replying to annie, #655 of 1354 🔗

Please please please ask them to explain why votive candles must not be lit. Dying to know the answer to that one. Bizarre.

75836 microdave, replying to microdave, 12, #656 of 1354 🔗

The Government doesn’t know its arse from its elbow

I disagree – the government clearly has NO idea what an arse or an elbow actually are, let alone how to differentiate between them…

75841 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to microdave, #657 of 1354 🔗


75840 Mark, replying to Mark, 17, #658 of 1354 🔗

The latest Mike Graham/Peter Hitchens chat on Talkradio today was linked below by Sue Davey, and is well worth a listen. For those of us who have been listening to these weekly chats from the beginning, it’s amazing how far Graham has moved. Peter of course has been fantastic throughout.

In this week’s interview, Peter makes an excellent point about how the frankly staggering government/elite stupidity and sheer imperviousness to dissent over coronavirus comes about, by reference to the previous catastrophe to which we were misled in a similar manner:

Generally governments seek out the advice they want to hear. This is of course what happened most notably in the Iraq War. All those people in the system who said “don’t do this, this is crazy”, the people who knew about Iraq and understood the Middle East and could tell a Shiite from a Sunni muslim, and things like that, which the government couldn’t – all those people were, immediately they began to say this, they were sidelined and the only people who were listened to were the ones who would cheer for war, and that was also very much the case in the United States. Anybody who’s against it, forget it. And so they end up in their echo chamber of people who agree with them, and that’s where they are now.

Peter Hitchens: I think Boris Johnson is enjoying this power of decree far too much

Also amused by Graham’s observation that it is quite interesting at his stage in life to find himself a member of the counterculture….

75895 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Mark, 3, #659 of 1354 🔗

I’ve really enjoyed these chats, Peter is so unfailingly polite and reasonable, even when he doesn’t get the same back, he just patiently wins people over.

75907 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 1, #660 of 1354 🔗

What amused me was the way Graham got so much stick for interrupting Hitchens back at the beginning that afterwards he bent over backwards not to do it, and now he lets Hitchens get away with quite a lot of talking over.

76137 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Mark, #661 of 1354 🔗

I’d noticed how Hitchens just steamrollers on!

75997 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to BecJT, 2, #662 of 1354 🔗

He’s like that in real life. A very gracious person. Taught my bolshy teenage commie ass a lesson.

75902 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Mark, 1, #663 of 1354 🔗

“Generally governments seek out the advice they want to hear”

To enlarge on that point, which is absolutely correct but gives only a mechanism rather than the reason, the next obvious question is: but why did they want the advice they sought?

In the case of the Iraq War that came down to the benefits Blair saw in backing the US in what he doubtless expected to be a safe win, along with the interests of the various lobbies that encouraged and supported him in the delusions that suited their purposes. In the case pf the coronapanic, I think it’s down mostly to a grim determination on the part of all senior government and civil service figures never to face up to the entirely gratuitous catastrophe they have inflicted on the nation, by panicking. If they resist reality long enough, perhaps it will magically change so that it turns out their cowardice and incompetence was actually for the best all along.

75948 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Mark, 1, #664 of 1354 🔗

Broadly speaking yes. But I’d describe it as a grim determination by Johnson and his cabinet of second raters to distract the nation from the fatal mistake they made in prolonging the lockdown beyond its proper end (you could argue about exactly when that was ), thereby hopefully escaping responsibility for trashing the economy at the forthcoming public enquiry. And enabling them to obfuscate enough to get re -elected in 4 years’ time.

76167 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, #665 of 1354 🔗

The interesting question is ‘What – and Who – (apart from the bleedin’ obvious fairy stories) links the Iraq debacle with the Covid-19 shambles?

75847 Nick Rose, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #666 of 1354 🔗
76007 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nick Rose, 1, #667 of 1354 🔗

Like the Freedom Thief one best!

76132 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #668 of 1354 🔗

It reminded me of Thatcher the Snatcher! (For those sprogs among you, that was 1970.)

I liked the useless masked one.

Both winners then?

75850 Paul, replying to Paul, 12, #669 of 1354 🔗

I’ve got to go to an outpatient appointment at the biggest hospital in my county so I checked it’s website to see what it says about mask exemptions,no mention at all it just says masks are compulsory throughout the hospital and if you haven’t got one you will be given one at the door.
I emailed the patient information dept. to ask them about exemptions,their reply was that they could not answer my question and they would forward my message to the ‘leader of the specialist Covid 19 team’ !,it truly beggars belief.

Also I received an email from an HGV supplies company I sometimes deal with asking if I would like to buy an ‘HGV,PSV and van sanitiser machine’,’to keep covid-19 compliant’ !!.
I’m now very worried to think I have not had one for the past 33 years and all of the danger I have been putting my staff and myself in.

I really do give up today.

76125 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Paul, #670 of 1354 🔗

At least your outpatient appointment is at the hospital, so you might get to see a consultant of sorts.

I’ve had two by landline phone – follow-ups on a big op in my mouth last year. You can’t get much more OUTpatient than that.

75855 Humanity First, replying to Humanity First, 2, #671 of 1354 🔗

Not too sure about describing the UK and Aussie PM’s actions as “crazy” and “insane”. Insanity is a defence under the law and prevents full moral responsibility and culpability being assigned to the guilty.

In any case, Australia can give the UK a run for its money as America’s ‘poodle’. Its previous whole-hearted support for the various US interventions in the Middle East is one example. Others I am sure can be found.

So if the actions of the UK and Aussie governments can be seen as plausible examples of them falling into line with U.S directions, then these recent comments in Off-Guardian may be of interest:

Aug 3, 2020 6:39 PM

What is driving all of this is the collapse of the US economy and the fall of the dollar.
That ultimately is what has given us a whole barrage of counter measures, Global warming, Brexit and now Covid, they all act to wreck the rest of the worlds economies. The US will not go down alone, they will pull us all down with them, if it takes that, just to keep the dollar as the international reserve currency. Without that they are screwed right back into the stone age, especially since their own greedy Corporate CEO’s exported their entire manufacturing base to China & Asia.
They are desperate and would gladly see us all dead and our currencies destroyed, with them as the ‘last man standing’, to save the dollar.
This empire is not going to go quietly into the night.

Eyes Open
Aug 3, 2020 4:18 PM

Coronavirus is an economic and political response to capitalist crisis. Most of the anti lockdown movement so far seems to be far right led. The ruling class is split.

If the World Economic Forum and Gates/Pharma get their way, humanity and civilization will be destroyed, including the middle classes, the millionaires etc. The world will belong exclusively to a tiny tier of multibillionaires who will turn the rest of humanity into tech monitored serfs.

76005 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Humanity First, #672 of 1354 🔗

Is Australia being ‘punished’ by the powers that be because they are likely to be a major trading partner for the UK post Brexit? Just wondering…

76117 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Humanity First, #673 of 1354 🔗

John Ward has some convincing stuff on this too.

75859 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 11, #674 of 1354 🔗

So this winter, as they allegedly will be testing for Coronaviruses, and not Covid 19, they will be able to up the scores on the doors and make an even bigger lie of it all.

75879 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #675 of 1354 🔗

Absolutely! like we here in Lisbon say: they have the cheese and the knife…

75891 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #676 of 1354 🔗

I expect the CockN’Clown show will be ruthless. Testing for other ronas, adding up all types and pillars of testing, relentless amounts (probably 500k plus), as well as a dodgy ‘suspected’ count of anyone caught sniffling. Plus if they push out a digital ‘passport’ then they can mine numbers from that too. Absolutely everything to push a nonexistent but scary “second wave”.

75932 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Dan Clarke, #677 of 1354 🔗

No. Each coronavirus has its own distinctive genetic identity. I don’t understand why you say this.

75863 Castendo, replying to Castendo, 19, #678 of 1354 🔗

Just to lighten up a bit… 🙂

75868 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Castendo, 5, #679 of 1354 🔗


75866 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 8, #680 of 1354 🔗

Just a thought on all this hand poison we’re supposed to be continually using (I never use it). Where does it all end up? Does it get absorbed into our bodies, causing who knows what long-term issues, or does it end up polluting the environment?

75926 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tenchy, 1, #681 of 1354 🔗

Doesn’t alcohol just – evaporate? You probably wash the rest of the ingredients off when you go and do that other thing you’re supposed to…

75969 ▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, 3, #682 of 1354 🔗

Yes it just evaporates. Although I tried some the other day that didn’t and I was left covered in a persistent mucous slime of unknown origin. The guy in the cafe I was in then wouldn’t let me wash my hands with an actual tap.

76025 ▶▶▶▶ Basics, replying to guy153, 3, #683 of 1354 🔗

Sorry but that is hilarious! Because that is the stuff tgat always happens to me.

Never used the dirty bottles of ectoplasm. As was said before those must be collecting grounds for every viral sin going. Simply don’t see them, it’s an easy knack to get into.

76045 ▶▶ Lili, replying to Tenchy, 2, #684 of 1354 🔗

I just pretend I’ve put some on and make a show of rubbing my hands together.

76071 ▶▶ annie, replying to Tenchy, 3, #685 of 1354 🔗

Pollutes the environment, encourages superbugs.

76111 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Tenchy, 2, #686 of 1354 🔗

Both. Bad for the environment. Rough on your liver.

76212 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Cheezilla, #687 of 1354 🔗

Is that only if you drink it?
Seriously, some councils were wetting themselves in the beginning about installing hand sanitisers in parks in case the down and outs started drinking it.

75875 Nic, replying to Nic, 19, #688 of 1354 🔗

Intersting times if johnson locked down hard again ,even if it was only locally would the public take any notice , if businesses were forced to close again ,I doubt they would get financial help this time,would we go along with it I doubt it.
I live in the bradford area we are back in semi lockdown no one I know is taking any notice, sign of things to come?

75881 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Nic, 13, #689 of 1354 🔗

Probably. Our local news was dishing out the hysteria as well tonight.
Ooooooh people of Bradford, you better abide by the rules oooooh!
To their credit though they did a vox pop (that was edited not live, so surprising) which included several sceptics who were like “Nah this is bullshit”.

75996 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Nic, 5, #690 of 1354 🔗

I’m glad if people in Bradford are ignoring the new lockdown, I know (although not that well) someone who was due to get married last Saturday, and I’m wondering if the wedding went ahead or not… I’m kind of scared to ask..
How dare Hancock issue edicts just hours before they come into force and mess about with peoples’ lives like that – grrr!

75892 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 9, #691 of 1354 🔗

I am very, very, very exhausted today.

Starting to take a toll physically as well as mentally this business. The brain being on constant alert is making the bod feel knackered.

Every time I hear a military/war analogy it saps my reserves. I feel like one of the kids from Hocus Pocus getting their life force sucked out by Winifred Sanderson.

(Lol without wanting to insult Ms. Midler, Boris with a ginger wig and green velvet gown….)

75913 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Farinances, 6, #692 of 1354 🔗

Try to spend some time with people who will help you recharge. I wish you well. We need you healthy.

75940 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 6, #693 of 1354 🔗

Thanks man, I’m still at home with les rentals. They are strangely quiet about stuff apart from making odd disparaging comments. I think it’s hit home why I’m so angry now. We’ve had quite a few screaming rows over past few months so it feels good to finally be past that. ATEOTD the old farts are my best friends and I still want to be around them more than anyone else I know at the moment, maybe because of the sense of foreboding I still feel about all this. I’m reserving ultimate judgement til the autumn when I think it will become extremely clear what we’re in for.

75946 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Farinances, 3, #694 of 1354 🔗

“Les rentals” ???

I feel like asking the PM what the plan is – prefer to have it whole, now, rather than drip-fed, so I know whether it’s worth uprooting ourselves, and we can carry on hoping, or stop hoping.

75975 ▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Julian, #695 of 1354 🔗

the ‘rents brah

very much want to uproot myself. where to go though..

75984 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Julian, 3, #696 of 1354 🔗

He doesn’t know what the plan is. He just doesn’t know.
Well… either that or he does……

We won’t know until a few more months of this dithering shit passes. After a while there will be NO more excuses, everyone will truly realise nobody is dying any more, and there’ll be a lot more unemployed people. So if the gvt. continue on this path under THOSE circumstances, I think we really have to be worried about all the larger agenda stuff. Rationally I’m still ….. well rational, which keeps me generally upbeat but clearly there’s a worry bubbling underneath that something sinister is behind it all.

75900 mrjoeaverage, replying to mrjoeaverage, 21, #697 of 1354 🔗

Not sure if anyone is interested at all. But here’s a report from Butlins in Bognor Regis; we have just returned from a 4 day break there.

On arrival, no longer do you collect keys from reception. However, two friendly men greeted us with no masks, handed us the key cards, and off we went to our room. No housekeeping, no tea and coffee, but we had a kettle!

Masks only “officially” required in supermarket and to book activities in the indoor shop booth building. I was asked at the door of supermarket to wear a mask, but on saying I was exempt, flagged through, and they remembered me after that. Booking office – same thing.

In the funfair, all ride operators were wearing masks. I presume this was a requirement. Rides cleaned after every ride, only took a few minutes, and with reduced hotel capacity and no day visitors allowed, queuing was minimal anyway.

One thing that did surprise me….I actually enjoyed something about this social distancing rubbish when it came to Butlins….! The restaurants and bars: Butlins have created a new app – The B app – whereby you order food and drink at the table, and it arrives extremely fast, especially the drinks.

Evening entertainment is now predominantly outdoors, and they have a big stage and essentially a load of tables. It’s almost like a music festival within a beer garden! Rules state you must be seated throughout the performances which are usually around 45 minutes. Then you are vacated row by row at the end. Drinks again….brilliant….a pint within 2 minutes of ordering on the app. The rules were well adhered to in the daytime shows, but in the evening, no doubt due to alcohol, the rules went out the window a bit. But no one seemed to get told off.

Anyway, works great now, but not sure what it will be like once it’s cold and pouring down with rain!

I also now know who Rak-Su are, and my daughters were in awe. They put on a good show as the headline act, but sadly, I can see why they are at Butlins!

The food at the Buffet restaurant was served to you at the counters, rather than you helping yourself. You choose which counter you want in advance after a small queue, and then are served the food. But….no alcohol in the buffet restaurant….what’s that all about?! So we only went to the buffet restaurant that one night!

The water park had to be pre-booked for a time slot. Again, this was for the better, and meant everywhere was less crowded. Not sure I saw anyone with a mask in the water park, staff included, apart from one in the outdoor rapids section. Not sure on the logic there!

All in all, I think Butlins have done a brilliant job, under the stupid conditions thrust upon them. There are things they need to improve on, but it will take time. Sorry I keep remembering things as I type….only one family in one lift….trying to go down in the lift on check out was a nightmare….had to haul huge cases down 5 flights of stairs as I was fed up waiting! But niggles aside, it was a great break.

Apart from the shop, and the staff at the funfair, little in the way of masks. Certainly hardly any of the guests anyway.

I’m sorry if I have drivelled on a bit, but I thought someone might find this interesting anyway!

Best wishes to you all, thank you Toby for your amazing work, and let’s keep sticking two fingers up to the establishment who, no pun intended, seek to “mask” their past errors by trying to take credit for preventing a fictitious second wave!

75922 ▶▶ Mark, replying to mrjoeaverage, 5, #698 of 1354 🔗

Thanks, I like to read reports from out and about in the real world. The lift thing is a real issue. I think it was matt here a few weeks back who pointed out the impossibility of operating the big high rise office buildings in London under these kinds of rules if even a significant fraction of those employed in them ever return to work. Of course, most of them won’t ever be back, either because they don’t have jobs any more or because they are now working from home permanently. And that will have effects on London commercial property prices and office rents, that underpin a lot of pension and investment funds….

75942 ▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Mark, 3, #699 of 1354 🔗

Yup, our future office will be much smaller. Good for those who like working from home, not so good for all the businesses that survive on the money from office workers, and a knock-on effect on those areas, where people also live, who will suddenly find themselves in very quiet neighbourhoods (nice?) but not many shops/sandwich bars/pubs etc.

75986 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Julian, 3, #700 of 1354 🔗

Or will offices be converted to flats, making a fortune for someone..?

76123 ▶▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Carrie, 3, #701 of 1354 🔗

Why would anybody want to work in The City if there are no jobs in the City? There are no parks, no amenities, no entertainment (except pubs to cater for for the after work crowd). Pointless. And even if it did happen, it would only exacerbate the forthcoming London domestic real estate crash (inevitable and I’m screwed when it happens).

76210 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Carrie, #702 of 1354 🔗

Great minds think alike:
Some will lose fortunes, others will make them, same as ever.

76214 ▶▶▶▶ ianric, replying to Julian, 1, #703 of 1354 🔗

I recall a post where someone said Belfast city centre was quiet even after non essential shops were allowed to open and this was because trade had been lost due to people working from home rather than going to the city centre where they spend money in shops. I would hate to work from home because I feel there would be no clear divide between home and work life.

76008 ▶▶ Edward, replying to mrjoeaverage, 5, #704 of 1354 🔗

It’s interesting to to read these kinds of accounts. Big businesses like Butlins and the supermarkets have corporate policies but the local staff can make things better or worse for the customers depending on how they implement them.

75908 NickR, replying to NickR, 3, #705 of 1354 🔗

Latest daily NHS report says 744 positive tests. Back in mid March we had a day with 744 new positive tests. In March we had a bit of social distancing, pubs open. Today we have a bit of social distancing, pubs open. No one thinks it’s about to explode, how do people rationalise the difference? Do they believe masks make a difference or do they all know that it’s gone & this is all a charade?

75912 ▶▶ Julian, replying to NickR, 5, #706 of 1354 🔗

I don’t think they rationalise it, they have moved on. Lots of people seem to think very little about things one way or the other, they just drift on…

75931 ▶▶ Snake Oil Pussy, replying to NickR, 4, #707 of 1354 🔗

Mid March it was 744 people who had got sick, self-isolated for 7 days, called 111 and convinced a call handler that they were at death’s door before finally being admitted to hospital and getting a test. And cases were doubling about every three days.
Yesterday it was only 170-odd hospital admissions, the rest being mild / asymptomatic cases tested in the community.
We knew the difference in 1840. Some people don’t know their history.

75914 Margaret, 13, #708 of 1354 🔗

Went with OH for his eye test this morning-he wanted me to help him choose his new specs.. On the wall there was a large poster:

“Think someone is mumbling? You need a hearing test”

No! Just ask them to take off their mask!

75916 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 12, #709 of 1354 🔗

I just popped in to my local supermarket an hour ago and the masked guy who sprays your hands and checks that you’re wearing a mask asked me if I had any symptoms. I told him you were asking me that same question in April! Something’s afoot.

76083 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to richard riewer, #710 of 1354 🔗

Sprays your hands??
My local Aldi has gel and some sanitizer for trolley handles chucking about near the entrance but everyone just walks past and ignores them. The door guy just nodded at me when I beamed at him as I walked past muzzle-free.

75918 Paul, replying to Paul, 16, #711 of 1354 🔗

I’ve just got an email from Morrisons about their cafes,one of the comments in it is,

‘all of our colleagues are fully trained in all social distancing disciplines’

Companies are falling over themselves to virtue signal with stupid ‘covid-speak’ like this.

I think I’m also supposed to be impressed that the cafe and it’s tables are cleaned throughout the day.I would have hoped that they were already doing that before this corona madness.

75925 ▶▶ Nic, replying to Paul, 5, #712 of 1354 🔗

I use a cafe that is normal, dont bother with morrisons any more , dont they realise the hand gel visors , plastic screens put people off,

75953 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Paul, 3, #713 of 1354 🔗

Is that a new olympic discipline??

The 3m social distancing dash

75923 Nicky, replying to Nicky, 44, #714 of 1354 🔗

It all feels so depressing at the moment but I am holding out for when people are no longer being paid by our useless government for doing nothing and have to go back to work – those who will still have jobs to go back to. As I think has been said here before, maybe when people realise the true impact of this on their personal finances they will start to question it more. Love Peter Hitchens, Dr John Lee and Carl Heneghan and all those who can articulate what I feel instinctively but have no public voice to say. Thank you too, Toby, and all who contribute in this forum. You have all helped to keep me sane over the past months!

75928 ▶▶ Alci, replying to Nicky, 17, #715 of 1354 🔗

Same. Reading this site, inc the many excellent comments, feels like a daily therapy session in an irrational, disturbing world. Thank you to all who contribute, and above all, Toby.

75930 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Nicky, 24, #716 of 1354 🔗

One of my neighbours was quite pro-lockdown at first, seemned to enjoy his three month paid holiday. After being briefly back, re-furloughed and now presumably on a redundancy list, he’s way more sceptical. Millions will probably experience similar and I like to think this will propel the reckoning.

76028 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to DRW, 11, #717 of 1354 🔗

Unfortunately that’s going to be the kick up the ass people need to wake up to the reality of this charade

76109 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to T. Prince, 4, #718 of 1354 🔗

Sadly yes. Then they’ll be hunting the mad axeman who chopped down the cherry magic money tree.

76044 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to DRW, 8, #719 of 1354 🔗

Being hit in the pocket and stomach should shake them out of their furlough induced torpor. And I think we’ll see more of that as the impact of mandatory muzzling becomes even clearer.

76061 ▶▶ annie, replying to Nicky, 15, #720 of 1354 🔗

I think that’s our main function: to keep one another sane.
Charge your glasses, folks, drunk to sanity! Long live Toby! Long live scepticism! Death to despotism! Cheers!

76152 ▶▶ janis pennance, replying to Nicky, 7, #721 of 1354 🔗

Me too , log in here every night and read just so I calm down enough to sleep
Thank you so much Toby and all the people sharing decent info …let sanity prevail

75937 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 11, #722 of 1354 🔗

And now folks for your entertainment and diversion we present ‘Hapless Hancock and the Goblet of unspeakable *$*$’ yes its true, I read it in the daily news, our intrepid Health Minister is going to dive into the sewers and find the secret of Covid 19. It’s good to know that the lad has finally found the appropriate setting for his talents.
So today we have had announcements about rapid Covid testing and sewer Covid testing, why? what are they planning to do with all these test results? As the brilliant Carl Henegan observes it is hospital cases and deaths that count, when they duly find *$*$loads of Covid in the sewers what are they planning to do about it?
One of our National Heroes is Nelson and I think that at this stage of Covid we need the Nelson touch ‘I see no ships’. Boris Johnson seems to admire Roosevelt and Churchill but I think they would both have come through with incisive and well defined policies in a way that Boris does not seem capable of doing.
The last document I could find for the UK policy on Covid 19 was back in early March and it described a policy of containment but the scientists seem to have pushed Boris into a half baked eradication policy which is doomed to fail and will cost us dear.
Never before in the field of pandemics has one buffoon lead a nation into such a state of nonsense and tomfoolery!

75943 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #723 of 1354 🔗

More “cases” for him to crow about then…

76019 ▶▶ BJJ, replying to Steve Martindale, #724 of 1354 🔗

What would Neville Chamberlain have done?

76023 ▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to BJJ, #725 of 1354 🔗

Or is Boris maybe Neville and we await Winston…?

76042 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to BJJ, #726 of 1354 🔗

Who could be Winston though?

76059 ▶▶▶▶▶ BJJ, replying to DRW, 1, #727 of 1354 🔗

Sumption? Or is it maybe the one and only Toby? Cometh the hour, cometh the man.

76105 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to DRW, #728 of 1354 🔗

So long as it’s not @*$%& Hancock I don’t care!!

76099 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Steve Martindale, #729 of 1354 🔗

I think it was a signal Nelson failed to see. He saw plenty of ships and carried on pounding them into matchwood even after Admiral Parker had signalled him to break off the action. Battle of Copenhagen, 1801.

(The words attributed to Nelson when told of the signal are “I only have one eye, sometimes I am entitled to be blind and I really do not see the signal.” He would have been a true sceptic!)

(Note to Toby: I saw your note the other day about height. Hope for you yet. Admiral Nelson was 5 feet 4 inches. I’m not sure if he claimed a further half inch or not.)

75945 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 7, #730 of 1354 🔗

I know its not possible for everyone but the local beach and cafe keep me sane, where I go most days. The cafe is now all outside, none of the previously small indoor space used, and more tables on the beach which is actually great also put up a big gazebo for some ‘indoor’ space. . Tables all full, no muzzles, children playing on the beach, no staff muzzles, only difference is food and drinks in throwaway packaging, which is weird, the bins need emptying all the time. As long as it doesn’t rain I’ll be there

76062 ▶▶ annie, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #731 of 1354 🔗

Same here in West Wales. A thin scattering of nappied numpties, loads of sane holidaymakers having a good time.

76076 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Dan Clarke, #732 of 1354 🔗

Either go to West Kirby on the Wirral to catch the sunset, a wander through the Gwydyr Forest at Betws-y-Coed, coastal walks between Llandudno and Penmachno, and of course all the wonderful hills to escape onto. Even in the rain :o))

75952 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 23, #733 of 1354 🔗

Did I read right? – 9 deaths over the last 24 hours? 9 deaths in a country of at least 70 million residents or about 0.13 per million. And we are destroying out health service, our children’s education, our economy, our civil liberties and our culture for what? To bring this down to zero???

75954 ▶▶ A. Contrarian, replying to OKUK, 2, #734 of 1354 🔗


75955 ▶▶ Basics, replying to OKUK, 3, #735 of 1354 🔗

Zero yes. But what kind of zero. It’s not zero deaths we are after. Zero cases? But the tests have a margin of error that cannot give us a reliable zero. What kind of zero do you fancy?

75960 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to Basics, 2, #736 of 1354 🔗

zero ……plebs?

I think that’s what they fancy. seems to me

75977 ▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Basics, 2, #737 of 1354 🔗

Gonna struggle to get to zero infections with 1% false positives!

75978 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Basics, #738 of 1354 🔗

They are after zero carbon at the same time..

76072 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Carrie, #739 of 1354 🔗

No chance of that with the diet I’ve been eating since March 🤢

76091 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Carrie, 4, #740 of 1354 🔗

They have achieved zero education. The first time since about 480AD. Quite an achievement.

76057 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to OKUK, 2, #741 of 1354 🔗

Bring the infections to zero. We won’t be released until we take it for ourselves. The day is coming.

76106 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to OKUK, #742 of 1354 🔗

Can we enlist this guy from Talk Radio to help us? From this tweet he seems to be on the ball: https://twitter.com/TVKev/status/1290201329902616576

76145 ▶▶ Bella, replying to OKUK, 2, #743 of 1354 🔗

No, because it’s not about the virus.

76156 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Bella, 1, #744 of 1354 🔗


75957 Hammer Onats, replying to Hammer Onats, 32, #745 of 1354 🔗

At long last, I feel the tide is turning. The MSM are now being openly critical (albeit still fairly mild) and people like Carl Heneghan are now being quoted much more often. Even Gove’s wife has tweeted her disapproval of Johnson’s latest idea of locking down the over fifties. In Scotland, young people seem to be turning against First Gauleiter Sturgeon. Have faith, this can’t go on for much longer. When furlough stops, the revenge of the mob may be swift.

75972 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Hammer Onats, 8, #746 of 1354 🔗

I get that feeling as well, very early days but if Boris and his muse (DC) are at all on the ball they will pick this up and act on it.

76024 ▶▶▶ T. Prince, replying to Steve Martindale, 10, #747 of 1354 🔗

A friend of ours who’s been a covid hysteric from the start has started to send me graphs showing HOW NON EXISTENT this mass killer really is, erm……..

76054 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to T. Prince, 3, #748 of 1354 🔗

Had a long chat with a cafe owner. She’s bought in, but knows I’m a sceptic. Civilised discussion, but even she was saying we can’t possibly lock down again…

76046 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Hammer Onats, 1, #749 of 1354 🔗

Hope that hammer’s swinging well :o))

75961 Simon, replying to Simon, 20, #750 of 1354 🔗

Ok, Time for an update.

I went to look at a new place to live last week, the other side of Ludlow. Took the motorcycle and stopped in Ludlow on the way back. My face mask (helmet) worked fine in WHSmith, no motorcycle reading material in there sadly. And I did a bit of shopping in Aldi. Total mask hell, but the helmet worked great. A lady with a very full trolley even let me go ahead. I’d finished and paid for my shopping before she’d finished unloading. Nice gesture to an armoured up person you can’t see with their helmet on.

Heading to Norfolk for my mum’s birthday last Thrusday evening, took the car as dad doesn’t ride, and stopped in a large petrol station with a decent shop. One mask on an uncomfortable looking 60 ish yr old and an early twenties couple totally mask free like myself. No hassle.

Later I was asked if I had a mask at the Shell in Kings Lynn, I said no, you don’t need one if…. started a nice conversation with an unmasked cashier. Apparently it’s Shell policy to ask, I pointed out there could be problems with those with disabilities. Turn’s out she’d had quite a lot of abuse from customers so far. Not her fault and not fair either.

Today in Moreton in Marsh, walked into the small Tesco to buy something to drink and helmet still on, no problem.

But, I met a nice older guy with a 1200GS similar to mine and he turned out to be a total sceptic. Won’t be taking their vaccine and beleives in a hidden agenda. Seems to be quite switched on. Social distancing ignored.

Leaving him to joing the chip shop queue I bumped into a lovely couple with their bikes on their way back from Cornwall to Rugby. Had a good chat with them and an older guy with his smaller bike who’d been to the chip shop. Seemed like normal, no masks, no obvious distancing people who just like motorcycles getting along.

So, if you want to meet other’s who might be more on side talk to motorcyclists. Our attitdue to risk is a little different to the masses. As much as I love old cars, a motorcycle is my preferred method of transport. I know it’s statistically more risky, but I can mitigate as best as I can for that. It’s up to me to make that difference and my choice. So, if most of them think like me they may have the criticality of thinking to assess risk.

Made me feel rather positive too, maybe there is a silent majority, who are quietly doing there own thing and not contributing to shopping statistics.

I’m heading out somewhere again tomorrow even though I’m the sort that never just rides around. but it’s making life seem so normal, as it would be riding 12 months ago.

76064 ▶▶ annie, replying to Simon, 2, #751 of 1354 🔗

‘Normal’ is the key.

76101 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Simon, 2, #752 of 1354 🔗

Same with horse riders you’d think but been a female dominated sport I’m sorry to say we have a lot of bedwetters. My husband and son are bikers and bikers certainly seem much more sensible. We were up at Clay Cross the other week to get my husband’s new Tiger 800XCA and there was no social distancing outside the dealer and despite a one way system and requests to mask up, virtually none inside either. Staff were trying to set an example but I had my poodle with me which resulted in a big scrum of staff crowding round to pick him up for a cuddle! So bang went the good example! 😂

76116 ▶▶▶ Simon, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #753 of 1354 🔗

I’m looking forward to going to dealers and testing some more bikes. Of course no mask… If challenged my reply would be, but you sell motorcycles (facepalm).

Congratulations with the Tiger 800, looks a great bike. And the poodle for destroying social distancing :>)

75962 AN other lockdown sceptic, 1, #754 of 1354 🔗
75963 DomW, replying to DomW, 5, #755 of 1354 🔗

What they said:

Stay at home,
Protect the NHS,
Save lives

What they meant:

Stay afraid,
Lose the NHS,
Give up on living

75967 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to DomW, #756 of 1354 🔗

You cannot reason with that scum! I mock ’em when I can… looks.. body movements… nose out of the muzzle etc..!
I’m gonna buy a ping-pong ball paint it red rubber strap it! and shoping I go!
and for a wallet i’ll use a fancy N95…

eff ’em all

75965 Dan Clarke, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #757 of 1354 🔗

Just been reading about Event 201 conducted on October 18 2019, what timing!

75974 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Dan Clarke, 4, #758 of 1354 🔗

Planned deliberately..

75981 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Carrie, 1, #759 of 1354 🔗

Looks very suss

75985 ▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Dan Clarke, 2, #760 of 1354 🔗

On the first day of the Wuhan 2019 World Military Games too…

75991 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #761 of 1354 🔗

that’s how they pull these ‘events’ off.

if there’s a drill..

75990 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Dan Clarke, 1, #762 of 1354 🔗

Surprise, surprise, look who’s involved in it:


75970 NickR, replying to NickR, 12, #763 of 1354 🔗

I voted remain because I never thought the prize was worth the cost but I was fine about leaving, but now seeing the total balls-up this shower are making of covid gives me the hibbie-jibbies about Brexit!

76026 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to NickR, 5, #764 of 1354 🔗

I voted leave and agree with your concern …. clowns

76205 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to NickR, 1, #765 of 1354 🔗

Damn right…

76220 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to NickR, 1, #766 of 1354 🔗

The EU has hardly covered itself in glory either.All major European nations immediately went into nationalistic mode so it sort of vindicated the decision to leave.As for the calibre of our leaders,that is probably a consequence of being governed by others for years now.Eu and USA.
Leaving the E U is only the first step in regaining our freedom,we must throw off the yoke of the USA.
That being said it is all irrelevant if we are made slaves by our own government.

76248 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #767 of 1354 🔗

Washington Post, July 21, 2020 at 8:34 AM EDT
‘FRANKFURT, Germany — European leaders took a historic step towards sharing financial burdens among the EU’s 27 countries by agreeing to borrow and spend together to pull the economy out of the deep recession caused by the virus outbreak.’
Not exactly ‘nationalistic mode’ at the moment, then.
Calibre of our political leaders is attributable to nothing other than the electorate.
And selling out to the Yanks is precisely what this government intends to do, a.s.a.p.
But ‘we’ elected them, and we’re stuck with them for now!

75976 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 3, #768 of 1354 🔗

Freedom is an unalienable right.

75999 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to richard riewer, 1, #769 of 1354 🔗

If you know what it means…

75980 Fed up, replying to Fed up, 15, #770 of 1354 🔗

Why don’t they ask people to volunteer to get CV19 to build up community immunity? I’d take my chances as I figure I have a 99% chance of survival. This community service is preferable to the constant attempts to shame me into wearing a pointless soggy mask (for the indefinite future). I’d insist on a badge of honour though, to virtue signal. Maybe they could have weekly clapfests for these brave volunteers?

That’s how stupid this has become that deliberately catching an illness is, relatively, an attractive proposition. Feeling ground down.

75983 ▶▶ Simon, replying to Fed up, 2, #771 of 1354 🔗

If they pay handsomely for it yes. :>) Great idea., I’ve not had anything from the government so this might do.

75988 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Fed up, 6, #772 of 1354 🔗

Get Covid, Get back to what we love!

75989 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Fed up, 7, #773 of 1354 🔗

Most of us have probably had it already – to the degree that we were ever going to get it. (Back on my original train lol). In all seriousness.

76040 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Farinances, 2, #774 of 1354 🔗

Quite likely, especially if it began earlier than is currently believed.

75998 ▶▶ Fed up, replying to Fed up, 6, #775 of 1354 🔗

Just a random thought. I wonder if they had used the phrase ‘community immunity’ rather than ‘herd’ it would have gone down better? Such preciousness about our dignity seems laughable now!

76003 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Fed up, 4, #776 of 1354 🔗

Totally. Just that word could have changed everything.

Community immunity
Population immunity (I believe this is actually used by a few of our fave sceptic scientists)
Nationwide immunity

Something neutral immunity

76006 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Farinances, 6, #777 of 1354 🔗

Put the ‘unity’ back in Herd Immunity 🙂

76020 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Fed up, 1, #778 of 1354 🔗

Collective immunity?

76031 ▶▶▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #779 of 1354 🔗


It might get Owen Jones and the Guardian on board.

76041 ▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Fed up, 1, #780 of 1354 🔗

I use the phrase “collective mass hysteria” for the general reaction. It’s not meant to reassure their dignity!

76001 ▶▶ NickR, replying to Fed up, 4, #781 of 1354 🔗

a) there’s none about to catch.
b) even if you find an infected person it’s virtually impossible to contract it.

76010 ▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to NickR, 12, #782 of 1354 🔗

Someone on here reported that inside PHE and other health bodies they all know there will be no second wave – because everyone who was gonna die from this has already done so.

A rather depressing strain of optimism but realism is realism. They would never report this is the MSM however because of how ‘disgusting’ and ‘inconsiderate’ it would be (oooh!) even though this is the sort of thing people actually need to hear and come to terms with.

What I find more depressing is how seemingly infantile the general public are when it comes to….. well death.

76037 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Farinances, 4, #783 of 1354 🔗

I think this is because it’s usually out of sight, unless you work for an undertaker or at a hospital. And who likes to talk shop when not in the shop? For most of us, it’s only immediate relatives and friends. So perhaps one funeral a year, possibly two, when you reach a certain age?

Then suddenly, you get confronted, day after day, week after week, courtesy of our headline-hungry press, of people dying of some strange new disease that nobody knows a thing about. Not one or two, but dozens. Then hundreds. Then thousands. Not in a year, but in a single day . More death than most people can handle.

Yes, there has been a collective between-the-ears meltdown, aided by daily propaganda, hammering on and on and on. Then “the” science, claiming that there would be half a million deaths from this new disease in the UK alone.

So I do not altogether blame most people for a bit of a wobble over this. But when they wake up again, I have no idea. Perhaps when the deaths from this fresh “spike” fail to materialise…

76047 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #784 of 1354 🔗

About when on here was that reported? And what was the source of that info re PHE? Difficult to navigate this thread!

76053 ▶▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #785 of 1354 🔗

That’s why it’s important to shunt stuff into the forums, so it can be archived properly.

76242 ▶▶▶▶▶ Farinances, replying to Carrie, #786 of 1354 🔗

Soz i can’t remember whether it was Toby or someone in the comments. Someone in the comments I think? Who knew people who worked for public bodies

76051 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #787 of 1354 🔗

It’s time they called it what it was – a CULL.

76151 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #788 of 1354 🔗

No. Just a culmination.

76060 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Farinances, 7, #789 of 1354 🔗

Just listened to Neil Oliver on Triggernometry and its interesting that he and the two presenters – Francis Foster and Konstantin Kisin have made the same point, that death is completely taboo and people now seem to have the inability to accept that life is finite and that there is an end point to our existence.

76092 ▶▶▶▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #790 of 1354 🔗

It was a fantastic episode. I’ve been saying this for a while about the loss of religious faith and our loss of awe and reverence for the realities of life (birth and death).

76149 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to AngloWelshDragon, #791 of 1354 🔗

Don’t get sentimental about alternative fairy stories. It’s just life – and death, which ends it.

76168 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to AngloWelshDragon, 1, #792 of 1354 🔗

It lends credence to that saying – when people stop believing in God they will believe in anything.

76270 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Farinances, #793 of 1354 🔗

They all thought death had been abolished.

76014 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Fed up, 3, #794 of 1354 🔗

They’re having problems with the vaccine guinea pigs because they can’t find any to catch either. That pesky T-cell immunity…

76082 ▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Fed up, 2, #795 of 1354 🔗

I would have infected myself back in early March if I could have, and then gone into proper quarantine. I discussed it with friends but they didn’t seem to think I was serious. By then there was enough data to tell me that it would be extremely low personal risk. I weighed up the low risk to myself and balanced it against the benefit to the community of helping to get toward herd immunity. I was specifically thinking of people like my grandmother.

But apparently now by refusing to wear a pointless muzzle, I am the monster and a danger to the sheep.

75982 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 4, #796 of 1354 🔗

Thomas Jefferson – We hold these truths to be self-… comment image https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/thomas_jefferson_157212
We hold these truths to be self-evident : that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness .
Thomas Jefferson

76148 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to richard riewer, #797 of 1354 🔗

He is soon going to be cancelled and his statues toppled…

76027 Ben Shirley, replying to Ben Shirley, #798 of 1354 🔗

Danesmoor sceptics: do your shopping in your local Nisa.

Keith’s a moron.

76048 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Ben Shirley, 3, #799 of 1354 🔗

My local Nisa hasn’t even got any signs up. Business as old normal.

76085 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to Ben Shirley, #800 of 1354 🔗

I don’t blame him at all. I live in Derbyshire and our village post office has been the subject of three (yes three!) armed robberies. Our co-op has been ram raided twice. Our land rover was stolen and used in a ram raid in the next village. And these things are happening across the region. Because we are on an A road linking to a motorway we attract a lot of criminals from outside the area. Police are barely interested.

76029 tallandbald, 1, #801 of 1354 🔗
76033 T. Prince, replying to T. Prince, 7, #802 of 1354 🔗

“Fully referenced facts about Covid-19, provided by experts in the field, to help our readers make a realistic risk assessment”.

“The only means to fight the plague is honesty.” (Albert Camus, 1947)


76070 ▶▶ annie, replying to T. Prince, 4, #803 of 1354 🔗

He meant the plague of Fascist oppression.
So do we.

76049 richard riewer, #804 of 1354 🔗

Rolling Stones, Beggars Banquet:
Jigsaw Puzzle

76050 BecJT, replying to BecJT, 31, #805 of 1354 🔗

I’m logging off in a minute and going to bed, because my circuits are fried. But my gloomy thought is: Maybe we deserve it?

A nation this lazy and complacent, so incurious about the facts, so compliant with silly, nonsensical rules, so accepting of overbearing authority, so self centredly obsessed with individual personal ‘safety’, with no regard for others simply deserves to get its bottom smacked.

A population this terrible at maths and critical thinking, so distracted by easy, indulgent ‘wants’, utterly neglecting ‘needs’, that takes for granted that someone else will take care of things, surely deserves some greasy, second rate little tin pot dictator to take the reins?

I mean, we – here – are a tiny minority. Most people really want this. Are OK with it. Celebrate it. Wear their little face flag to signal to others they are on board with it. That being the case, maybe we Brits deserve no better fate than to end up broke, with us all being bossed around by corrupt, bullying cops, and harridan rule book clutching medics, teachers and ‘public servants’. Our own behaviour surely sets the scene for censorious comments in the street, judgmental tuts in shops, curtain twitching approbation as we go about what once was our private business.

And a country so indifferent in the face of such abject human suffering caused by it’s actions, not just here, but abroad, to the most vulnerable people of all, that treats shutting down its wealthy – to most people rich beyond your wildest dreams – economy as if we’re on some jape of a gap year, doing zoom yoga as if it was all a game, that takes away from people who’ve worked hard, or just those who hadn’t got much to start with, must simply deserve to go to the dogs, and literally become what it already morally is – bankrupt.

Sorry so miserable, but I am just so fed up, and more to the point, this is really scaring me now. Look at Venezuela, we think it can’t happen to us, but it can, it can happen anywhere. You don’t need a conspiracy, this is just how power works if you let someone take enough of it.

76065 ▶▶ Mark, replying to BecJT, 3, #806 of 1354 🔗

Well to cheer yourself up, you could consider that in the past the solution to nations with elites that had become as disfunctional as ours currently are, was often external military conquest.

76077 ▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Mark, 5, #807 of 1354 🔗

Liberate us Sweden!

76122 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to DRW, #808 of 1354 🔗

That really made me laugh, thanks you two! An invasion, it’d be dad’s army!

76265 ▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to DRW, 1, #809 of 1354 🔗

Bring back the Vikings!

76228 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Mark, 3, #810 of 1354 🔗

We have been conquered we just haven’t realised it for 75 years.In winning the 2WW we bankrupted ourselves and became America’s client state.

76452 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Jonathan Palmer, #811 of 1354 🔗

Not going to disagree…

76066 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to BecJT, 5, #812 of 1354 🔗

Nobody deserves it, least of all us 🙂 – but nobody deserves this. (Except maybe Handjob and friends).

People may be dumb and jaded and historically illiterate and totally devoid of principles but they still don’t deserve this. They will get it though. They WILL get it. Let’s hope they don’t get it too late.

<3 Have a nice sleep Bec maybe we can meet in dreamland where all this is just a….nightmare

76127 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Farinances, 3, #813 of 1354 🔗

Thanks, I’m just tired and jacked off, you’re right, nobody deserves this. Sleep well. My dog just got the ‘zoomies’ – she’s 40kg with an arthritic elbow, I think even she could tell desperate cheer up measures were needed!

76096 ▶▶ James007, replying to BecJT, 9, #814 of 1354 🔗

Your point about indifference to suffering struck a chord with me. I have been depressed by this too. Looking on LinkedIn for some work, I was saddened by posts of successful former colleagues boasting about how much money they have saved on trains, how lockdown has been wonderful for their health etc…
I am happy for people who have had a positive experience through this, but saddened by a general ignorance of the breadth of suffering and destruction caused.

76119 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to James007, 8, #815 of 1354 🔗

They will do a U turn when they’re handed their P45 and unable to find jobs quickly. Suddenly those train journeys would be viewed towards rose tinted specs.

And if they think lockdown has been wonderful for their health, they won’t be thinking that while being unemployed.

76136 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #816 of 1354 🔗

And we’ve got no money for a health service.

76171 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BecJT, 6, #817 of 1354 🔗

Yep so we’ll have more deaths from cancers, strokes, heart diseases, suicides not to mention more people who will be diagnosed with depression, schizophrenia, bipolar…the list goes on.

76174 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #818 of 1354 🔗

And, ‘we told you so’ will be no bloody comfort at all. The only comfort will be I hung onto my integrity, my moral compass always pointed north, and I had the integrity of my own mind. I do feel despair sometimes, it’s so sad.

76267 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to BecJT, #819 of 1354 🔗

Actually I think it’s a great comfort to keep one’s integrity. Would you rather be a deluded zombie halfwit?

76309 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to annie, #820 of 1354 🔗

It is, it’s the only thing that matters. I’m rereading Ralph Waldo Emerson’s “Self Reliance” to keep my resolve up!

76304 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to BecJT, 1, #821 of 1354 🔗

Exactly. I will laugh like a drain when the former lockdownistas will claim “actually I was against it in the first place…..” we should never let them forget that they aided and abetted this tyranny in the first place.

76266 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #822 of 1354 🔗

Probably diagnosed incorrectly, online.

76306 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to annie, #823 of 1354 🔗

We’ll see more of that the longer this fiasco goes on.

76131 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to James007, 9, #824 of 1354 🔗

I read the UN report on children (if you want to sleep, don’t read it, it’s absolutely f**king unconscionable), the suffering we are inflicting on the third world. 13m girls will never go back to education, flogged off into servitude, sexual slavery or forced marriage. Little girls! Starvation, death, disease just horrific. Illegal logging in the amazon, big game poaching, dead orangutans, on it goes, turtles choking on facemasks and PPE ocean litter. And that’s just the start. Here, lonely old people, abused kids, abject poverty. I honestly want to smash the nature walks and banana bread “rocking the lockdown” brigade in the face!

76133 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to BecJT, 2, #825 of 1354 🔗

PS doubly so if they are ‘socialists’.

76175 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to BecJT, 5, #826 of 1354 🔗

The pain seems to be falling disproportionately on the the most vulnerable. Such as a single mother in a high rise flat with a couple of children, with all lines of support stopped.
How strange that skepticism about lockdowns is not a left-wing cause, as well as a conservative one.
What is depressing is the feeling that I have no power. I have written to my MP and joined groups like usforthem.
What else can we do?

76269 ▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to James007, 2, #827 of 1354 🔗

Remain sceptical. Not give in. It matters.

76314 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to James007, 4, #828 of 1354 🔗

I hear you brother, I’m doing the same. I’m trying to talk about it, I’m adopting a ‘bright and breezy’ chatty approach in shops, ‘Gosh, when will this madness end? Hahaha’ and then when they get talking I just drop in a ‘it’s such a worry about the unemployment that’s coming though, isn’t it?’. I did it once at the till in the Tesco Express, was about 15 people in the queue, and they all then chipped in! Must remember moments like that.

And don’t get me started on middle class lefties, they are in my opinion, as much to blame as anyone, because they have a lot of social capital, many of them are in influential positions (see the Twitterati, the press, pseudo sage etc) and all this is the most gargantuan act of selfish entitlement I’ve ever seen. Lockdown very much is a middle class indulgence. It drives me potty. They don’t care about the ‘working man’ at all, they just hate the Tories, and even with that, it’s not grounded in any real analysis, it’s just student posturing, and about that mature. They might as well still be shouting ‘bollocks to the poll tax’,. I unfriended one on FB in April, she only just noticed yesterday, she was really angry and asked me why.

I said, you shared Miriam Margoyles post wishing death on the Prime Minister. I don’t give a shit about Boris but he’s a human being, but more to the point, you are meant to be a feminist, and Boris’ fiance was one of John Worboys rape victims, and was at home, heavily pregnant and worried out of her mind. That’s why. I’m happy to report that at that, she went quiet and f**ked off.

76141 ▶▶ RickH, replying to BecJT, 2, #829 of 1354 🔗

with us all being bossed around by corrupt, bullying cops, and harridan rule book clutching medics, teachers and ‘public servants’.”

No – Being f.ked about by know-nothing Eton ‘educated’ Tory wankers, bullshitting Bullingdon Boys and assorted spivs, snake-oil and fireplace salesmen, elected via the Night of the Living dead that is the Tory f.ing Party, aided by a non-opposition of similar privileged non-entities and friends in the associated similarly educated whores’ profession of the media.

Discredit where discredit is due.

76172 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to RickH, 7, #830 of 1354 🔗

If you keep up with my comments, you’ll know I don’t spare the posh boys but you must admit, every little clipboard clutching Hitler is currently having the time of their lives! And it is doctors, nurses, teachers, shop workers (in some cases) coppers, council officials, etc etc etc all rejoicing that someone is finally telling them what to do, and they can do the same to others (for instance it was me who asked the question in today’s update about the NHS withdrawing care, that’s not posh boys, that’s doctors deciding to do that to their own patients, even our GP receptionists are feeling very emboldened). My point, we get the leadership and society we deserve, the fact that people don’t feel invested in it, that’s it’s precious and hard won, let alone that they have an absolute obligation to conserve and protect it, in honour of the dead, the living, and as the yet unborn tells you exactly what moral state we are in!

76144 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to BecJT, 1, #831 of 1354 🔗

It’s not just the UK and Britons, it’s almost every other people on Earth as well.
This mankind cannot do critical self thinking anymore, it has therefore become unable and resultingly does not want to live enlightened and free anymore.
As such, it doesn’t deserve it anymore.

76163 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Jay Berger, 3, #832 of 1354 🔗

In my dark moments, I just think history is repeating itself. All those boys who laid down their lives, all those women and kids who suffered and kept the show on the road, so we could say ‘never again’ and here we are …

76052 Bart Simpson, 6, #833 of 1354 🔗

My favourite greasy spoon in Chinatown has reopened and its refreshingly normal despite many of the staff in masks and the communal tables in the middle having been replaced by smaller tables for those on their own. No hand sanitisers, no bizarre arrows and no screens. Cash only as well.

Bonus is I got 50% off my lunch

Also had no issues inside Chinese and Korean supermarkets, I noticed that the staff who served me seemed to respond positively to me being unmuzzled.

76056 Farinances, replying to Farinances, #834 of 1354 🔗

Ok I’m gonna go to bed now because I’m knackered.

Questions though — will check on the answers tomorrow

Are they still doing those ‘randomised’ test trails where they sent the tests via post? Remember before they were doing the testing for antibodies etc. and it was several different universities that were doing it?

Did we ever hear any results from any of those testing programmes (or the one by Porton Down more to the point)? Did anyone take part? Did you get your results back if you did?

Are all the tests that are now being performed outside of clinical settings ‘pillar 2’ i.e. voluntary walk-ins? Does workplace testing class as pillar 1 or 2? Does non hospital but medical (GP) testing class as pillar 1?

I’m asking because I think it would be useful to set up some kind of network where people’s tests are recorded by them outside of the system, to see if what they’re being told re: their own test is what is reflected in the results. Also to track these alleged positives that are coming back from clean swabs / people who never attended their appointments.

Basically is what people are being told about their OWN test result true?

76075 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to Farinances, #835 of 1354 🔗

Imagine if every single person tested also gave us the ‘result’. We could see if our results match official ones.

Not gonna happen obviously but even having just a few results could flag up discrepancies. (I would LOVE to know if those stories about no-shows being automatically marked positive are true)

76093 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #836 of 1354 🔗

Are people being asked to sign anything when they are tested? Don’t think it is ok to retain DNA without people’s specific permission..

76095 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Farinances, #837 of 1354 🔗

Are people being asked to sign anything when they are tested? Don’t think it is ok to retain DNA without people’s specific permission..

76063 richard riewer, replying to richard riewer, 7, #838 of 1354 🔗

Listened to Neil Oliver on Trig last night as my substitute bedtime story.

76073 ▶▶ AngloWelshDragon, replying to richard riewer, 3, #839 of 1354 🔗

He was excellent. So articulate and seemed a genuinely nice bloke.

76121 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to richard riewer, 1, #840 of 1354 🔗

That was an excellent episode. Well done to all three men.

76068 JYC, replying to JYC, 10, #841 of 1354 🔗

I went to a petrol station, an Indian take-away and a small supermarket today, at different locations in central Scotland. I was unmasked in each of them, very much in the minority – I don’t think anyone else in the supermarket was maskless. But I wasn’t challenged anywhere and I don’t think there were any stares, as if I had just arrived from a different planet. Small steps perhaps, but we need to keep going with it.

76264 ▶▶ annie, replying to JYC, 2, #842 of 1354 🔗

We do, we do, we do.
At the stables yesterday, a little girl of about seven or eight was having a riding lesson while wearing a face gag. Just her, one pony, snd the instructor – fanatical about distancing – in a huge and very airy indoor school. I wanted to cry, and still more, to go and scream and scream in her cretinous parents’ faces. (They were waiting in their car.) But it’s not my stables, and they were desperately needed customers.
If we don’t show our faces, a time may come when nobody ever sees a face outside their own homes. End of the human race, enter the zombie race. A vile rag obliterating the human face. Forever.

76285 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to annie, 2, #843 of 1354 🔗

Agree totally Annie. The best thing about coming back from Spain was that out and about in the UK, you can still see people’s faces. It really brought home to me how dehumanising the face nappy is.

76308 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to annie, #844 of 1354 🔗

All I can say is poor horse, prey animals scan body language to read intent, that kid deserved to be bucked off, it’s testament to the character of the horse, not the adults involved, that she wasn’t.

76078 Farinances, replying to Farinances, 12, #845 of 1354 🔗

Also the replies on this tweet
are amazing and heartening

night all

76126 ▶▶ janis pennance, replying to Farinances, 3, #846 of 1354 🔗

Hilarious , the best ones are in the offensive section

76147 ▶▶ Moomin, replying to Farinances, 1, #847 of 1354 🔗

Wow, perhaps the tide is finally turning!

76150 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Farinances, #848 of 1354 🔗

Definitely heartening! Thanks and sleep well.

76164 ▶▶ Sue, replying to Farinances, 5, #849 of 1354 🔗

Thanks for posting this – the replies are overwhelming blasting the DHSC propaganda (get tested and you can go to gigs again). Blackmail and everything so wrong about this advert – think it may have backfired spectacularly and people see through this shit…

My favourite reply:

“Are you testing for ANY coronavirus? Or specifically CoViD????
Because I’m pretty sure the common fucking cold hasn’t stopped me from going to gigs in the past”

76230 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to Farinances, 2, #850 of 1354 🔗

Brilliant – well spotted ! DHSC hoisted by their own petard – some great put downs from the Twittersphere. The DHSC really do take us for fools.

76079 Dave #KBF, replying to Dave #KBF, 3, #851 of 1354 🔗

Who not normally post anything from this channel but this one has got to be seen by the good folks on LS.


76108 ▶▶ janis pennance, replying to Dave #KBF, #852 of 1354 🔗

That’s well funny

76080 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 15, #853 of 1354 🔗

Brief note – my first time to Chester today. Much more normal than I thought! About 15%-20% mask wearers on the streets (including a Roman Centurion!) – I didn’t go in any shops – not my thing. Down by the river – crowded – no crazy covid-dancing, vast majority bare-faced and smiling. Lovely! Disparity of messaging – official 2-metre distancing signs, but kiosks signs telling people to stay 1 metre apart. Many people ignoring that anyway. Very positive and happy vibe up here in the Chester region. Lovely to hear a busker at the river – not heard live music and singing for a LONG time… Stay positive folks!

76086 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #854 of 1354 🔗

Buzz has built up again then. Good to hear.

76263 ▶▶ annie, replying to Mr Dee, #855 of 1354 🔗

Cheers for Chester. Lovely town.

76481 ▶▶ Alison9, replying to Mr Dee, 1, #856 of 1354 🔗

First time I heard live music in a shopping area since this madness began, it made me feel quite teary – there is so much we are losing with all this, things we took for granted like just mingling normally as you describe.

76081 WhyNow, replying to WhyNow, 19, #857 of 1354 🔗

I think the health professionals know very well that the main vector of transmission has been the health service. The virus cut a swathe through the very elderly, in hospitals and care homes, carried by health care workers. The main aim of policy has been to try to reduce the infection of health care workers, so that fewer of their patients die.
But now the health professionals have got the bit between their teeth, and decided that the target is zero death with Covid. You can die of anything you like except Covid. They don’t care about the impact on the public, because their world view is essentially uncommercial.

76100 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to WhyNow, 11, #858 of 1354 🔗

Or making a fuss about community tranmission draws focus away from nosocomial infections and eventually people might forget.

76115 ▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Nobody2020, 15, #859 of 1354 🔗

I think it’s a watch the birdy, you’re right. They basically massacred our oldies, denied them their loved ones, kidnapped relatives (we lost two, were essentially awol in the system for five weeks, we didn’t even know where they were, let alone what was happening), they are trying to delay that shit hitting the fan as long as possible, a mythical second wave helps them out.

76138 ▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to BecJT, 3, #860 of 1354 🔗

It’s not the health professionals , it’s this government’s fault.

76140 ▶▶▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Bruno, #861 of 1354 🔗

Gov fault ?!!!!
health professionals r sheep now?! ( rethorical)

76173 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Castendo, 6, #862 of 1354 🔗

Yes, UK government ‘s fault for panicking and insisting on NHS emptying hospitals to make way for 500K CV 19 assumed to be desperately sick cases, which were never likely to materialise under any remotely realistic assessment.

76179 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bruno, 11, #863 of 1354 🔗

Doctors could have refused to comply, they did not, they collaborated, and then sat around playing cards, or at home on furlough and didn’t speak. They more than anyone knew the truth and they covered it up.

76262 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ annie, replying to BecJT, 2, #864 of 1354 🔗

They still are.
No surprise. Nazi doctors murdered mental patients, killed and tortured victims in concentration camps, collaborated with ultimate evil. Being a doctor doesn’t make you a hero, just a more dangerous coward.

76209 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Bruno, 1, #865 of 1354 🔗

Your right,they were just obeying orders.

76178 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bruno, 9, #866 of 1354 🔗

It is health professionals, they know this is wrong, yes they’ve been warned not to speak, Dr John Lee has managed it, as have one or two other doctors. What happened to ‘first do no harm’. We have to stop just blaming the government, we elect the government, they work in service of society, WE are society. That’s everyone, doctors and health professionals included, they don’t get a free moral pass, they need to down tools and refuse to comply until the health service is restored.

76197 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to BecJT, 3, #867 of 1354 🔗

Think back to where we were when this happened though. There are always a number of very old and frail people in hospital awaiting discharge, because they can basically propel themselves from bed to toilet without falling over, but for whom no care package has been arranged. They need that because they can’t make a meal for themselves without pouring boiling water over their feet if left alone, i.e. can’t live independently. In other words, the consultant has certified they’re fit to leave, but they haven’t a safe place to go. Then government tells the hospital, get them out, we’ll need the beds for the (illusory) Covid influx. So care homes were leant on to take them. And at the time that was seen to be more important and less dangerous than it turned out to be. A misjudgement at government policy level, not a clinical misjudgement.

76225 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bruno, 3, #868 of 1354 🔗

You seem very keen to defend the government and the NHS while rubbishing people here who post accurate information. Why? When your inaccuracies are exposed you say you had a bad day. Sorry, that’s not how debate works. If you are proven wrong you admit it.

76245 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to OKUK, 1, #869 of 1354 🔗

Read my comment again, rather more carefully. It is a criticism of the government. Not a defence of it. Name any inaccuracy you’ve found, I’m not proud. I’m not aware of rubbishing anyone posting accurate information, please elaborate .

76303 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bruno, 4, #870 of 1354 🔗

As I’ve said to you upthread, the fault does not just fall on the Government. We lost two family members under lockdown, both had 5 weeks in hospital, the NHS treated them appallingly. Staff who had not much to do, didn’t even let us know where they were, didn’t read the notes of one – serious dementia, had forgotten how to eat and drink – they basically dehydrated her to death. We’re hearing reports like that all the time. Stolen personal affects under the ruse of personal affects having to be destryoed, staff sitting around playing cards, ambulance drivers told to drive around empty with blue lights flashing, doctors saying they had empty wards.

Anyone – ANYONE – who cared about patients would have rung the news desk of the local paper. Where are those stories? I even read a report of nurses, with so little to do, got in a mobile hairdresser and all got their hair cut and coloured on a mini spa break. Staff had preferential queuing and slots in shops, free data on their phones, discounts, free pizzas, and on and on (friend of ours is a midwife, she was embarrassed, still took all the perks though) and contrary to most other workers in this country, were on full pay.

That’s before we talk about 60% down on A&E, whopping swathes of cancer patients missed, and GPs deciding to zealously implement ‘guidance’ to the detriment of their patients.

All these doctors took an oath. To first do no harm. This is not just bickering about Government policy, this is life and death.

And now we have imminent economic collapse and 10m people waiting for healthcare, NHS staff, who now not only are crying about a pay rise which in my opinion they didn’t earn, will soon be the few people with a protected income.

This government policy is unconscionable, those at the front line of it have a moral obligation to speak up and bring it to a stop.

76298 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Bruno, 2, #871 of 1354 🔗

The hostile relationship between social care and the NHS is well documented, I find this ‘yay the NHS are heroes’ until someone points out some of the the flagrantly cruel things the NHS has done, and then it’s ‘yes but not THAT NHS’ really bizarre. The NHS did that. Medics, who knew full well what was going on, didn’t speak.

76139 ▶▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to BecJT, 5, #872 of 1354 🔗

Same here in Portugal….
IMO local opinion: they just don’t care…they r fkin animals… I think about all they have done for the last 20 years to be right now: MPs prime ministers, presidents, directors etc…
When in end March I saw muzzled elder persons under rain at supermarkets qeues and no one gave ’em chairs …

76307 ▶▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Castendo, 1, #873 of 1354 🔗

The lack of respect for the elderly is the really big scandal of all this, it’s all a huge reversal, ‘save lives!!!’ they scream, what they mean is ‘MY LIFE’ and we sacrificed our old to pander to the neurotic, entitled fear of the affluent ‘worried well’.

76330 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to BecJT, 1, #874 of 1354 🔗

40,000 ‘extra’ deaths of over 80s is not “a massacre”. It is roughly 1/12 – 8% – more than you might expect over the course of the year. In fact, I strongly suspect that, when we get to the end of 2020, we’ll find that there are pretty much exactly as many over 80s alive in the country as we would have expected there to be without the virus.

I’m not justifying or defending the policy, I’m just warning against getting carried away when looking at the scale of the death toll. That’s what the zealots do and they’re wrong.

76143 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #875 of 1354 🔗

Blame the public.
It’s a bit like that awful “public education” advert with the fat guy eating chips while watching tv.
Obesity isn’t the fault of the food industry and the supermarkets, encouraged by government dietary advice.
It’s because YOU are a bunch of lazy junk-food-snacking slobs……

76180 ▶▶▶▶ BecJT, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #876 of 1354 🔗

We are not just the ‘public’ though, we are the electorate, we are society, we are ‘we the people’ and the government work for us, we put them there, and now we have to get them out of there. We are not passive in this, we are participants, hence my despair, it’s only when a marauding bunch of bastards start dismantling it that you realise how much an obligation we ALL have to protect it. That’s on us as much as Matt Hancock.

76261 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Nobody2020, #877 of 1354 🔗

We won’t.

76114 ▶▶ RickH, replying to WhyNow, 1, #878 of 1354 🔗

Nonsense isn’t contradicted by bigger nonsense.

76129 ▶▶▶ WhyNow, replying to RickH, #879 of 1354 🔗

And yet that appears to be the strategy of the health professionals.

76084 Stephen McMurray, replying to Stephen McMurray, 24, #880 of 1354 🔗

Under the WHO guidelines a mask would be a medical device used in the prevention of disease .
The 1984 health act prohibits the government from using any prophylactic treatment without consent from the individual.
Therefore, I believe making someone wear a mask is illegal. Are there any legal experts that could check this out?

76089 ▶▶ Castendo, replying to Stephen McMurray, #881 of 1354 🔗


76192 ▶▶▶ Castendo, replying to Castendo, 2, #882 of 1354 🔗

I meant good luck going into a court complaining…
don’t know about there, here, how to say it; ‘IRS’ is not working …

76181 ▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to Stephen McMurray, 4, #883 of 1354 🔗

They also are useless unless they are surgical quality and only used for a short time- HSE

76260 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Dan Clarke, 5, #884 of 1354 🔗

The packaging for the horrid things states outright that they confer no personal protection.
Some brands’ packaging state outright that they don’t protect against Coronaviruses – any Coronaviruses.
But the President if the Royal Society says they are efficacious, and the President if the Royal Society is an honourable man.
Or maybe he isn’t.
Maybe he can only read mathematical symbols, not letters.
Maybe he’s an arsehole.

76259 ▶▶ annie, replying to Stephen McMurray, 1, #885 of 1354 🔗

But this is a totalitarian government that suspended all human rights overnight – literally – on 23 March.

76098 Steve Martindale, 4, #886 of 1354 🔗
76102 Tenchy, replying to Tenchy, 13, #887 of 1354 🔗

Just read this comment in The Telegraph:

They don’t even need a test, in care homes if there is a single patient tested positive, it is assigned to all fatalities from the care home, it is also added if a deceased had coughed or had a fever in the month before.

Surely this is not right, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it was.

76110 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Tenchy, 7, #888 of 1354 🔗

I believe doctors are allowed to assign a death to Covid even if no positive test was conducted. Symptomology is good enough I think for the certificate.

76185 ▶▶▶ Dan Clarke, replying to OKUK, 1, #889 of 1354 🔗

I heard they do it remotely on info from the care home, then off it goes to be registered, remotely

76251 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to OKUK, 1, #890 of 1354 🔗

Correct. Although the rest is wrong, one patient testing positive doesn’t mean ‘assigning all fatalities in the care home ‘ to CV19.

76112 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to Tenchy, 9, #891 of 1354 🔗

Yes it is right. Dr John Lee wrote a good article in the Spectator about death recording, said it was a scandal.

76124 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tenchy, 1, #892 of 1354 🔗

It is wrong.

76128 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Bruno, #893 of 1354 🔗

I do wish people would at least attempt to find out information before posting:

76155 ▶▶▶▶ Sarigan, replying to Bruno, 2, #894 of 1354 🔗

I wouldn’t say wrong, this line in the guidance is pretty much a carte Blanche:

“Medical practitioners are required to certify causes of death “to the best of their knowledge and belief”. Without diagnostic proof, if appropriate and to avoid delay, medical practitioners can circle ‘2’ in the MCCD (“information from post-mortem may be available later”) or tick Box B on the reverse of the MCCD for ante-mortem investigations. For example, if before death the patient had symptoms typical of COVID- 19 infection, but the test result has not been received, it would be satisfactory to give ‘COVID-19’ as the cause of death, tick Box B and then share the test result when it

becomes available. In the circumstances of there being no swab, it is satisfactory to apply clinical judgement.“

76161 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Sarigan, 1, #895 of 1354 🔗

That is not carte blanche to assign CV19 as a cause of death ‘in care homes if there is a single patient tested positive’.

76187 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ NickR, replying to Bruno, 1, #896 of 1354 🔗

NHS reported deaths for the past 3 days reported 14, of which 5 were suspected to have had Covid 19 but not tested.

76193 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Yawnyaman, replying to NickR, 1, #897 of 1354 🔗

The proportion has traditionally been pretty low, but has increased recently as numbers have dropped. They are down about three quarters from late June.

76213 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bruno, 1, #898 of 1354 🔗

It very much is. The doctor can claim it’s a reasonable assumption.

76219 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to OKUK, #899 of 1354 🔗

…what you might not realise Sylvie is that very old people who die of respiratory disease often have multiple pathogens in their lungs…there is really no reason to prioritise Covid 19 in the absence of a positive test.

76273 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nicky, replying to Sarigan, 1, #900 of 1354 🔗

Another interesting thing here is how many times the actual test result has been shared and the certificate/reporting numbers adjusted? Particularly if it turned out that Covid virus was NOT present? Anyone know where to find out, or if in fact this actually happens?

76183 ▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bruno, 1, #901 of 1354 🔗

But it’s usually quicker to come here with a question, where nearly always there’s some incredibly helpful person willing to provide an answer.

76188 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tenchy, 2, #902 of 1354 🔗

Sorry, it was a bit tetchy, long day wrestling with other people’s money problems.

76204 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Bruno, 1, #903 of 1354 🔗

No problem 🙂

76211 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Bruno, #904 of 1354 🔗

I do wish people who post links would read them. See section 5.4 – I was totally right, Doctors can certify Covid 19 as cause of death without a positive test result. It’s also interesting to note the section on diabetes. It’s clear to me that diabetes is the real cause of death in a large number of “Covid” cases.

76243 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to OKUK, -1, #905 of 1354 🔗

Of course they can, if you were a GP who’d seen it all before you wouldn’t need a swab to tell you the obvious. I am well acquainted with the content of the link, thank you. Diabetes is not ‘ the real cause’ of death, it is one of the well attested co morbidities making it likely CV19 will finish you off, alongside ischaemic heart disease, atrial fibrillation, obesity and other circulatory problems. Also, as it turns out, kidney and renal issues.- see e.g. the article Swedenborg references from the Danish study above.

76103 OKUK, replying to OKUK, 15, #906 of 1354 🔗

Pleased to report that there were many more mask-frees in the local supermarket today. Up from maybe 1% (me!) to perhaps 5%.

76134 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to OKUK, 8, #907 of 1354 🔗

Every little helps…

76232 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to OKUK, #908 of 1354 🔗

Total compliance in Newcastle (T&W) city centre

76247 ▶▶▶ JimByJovi, replying to IMoz, #909 of 1354 🔗

If you mean masks, I was in the Grainger Market last Wednesday. It was about half and half.

76433 ▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to JimByJovi, #910 of 1354 🔗

I was talkig abou shops, should’ve been more explicit. Do they still close the market at stupid hour?

76154 Jay Berger, replying to Jay Berger, #911 of 1354 🔗

Does anyone watch the Anonymous videos?
What’s the general take on them?
The most recent one sums up the corruption around vaccines well.

76233 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Jay Berger, #912 of 1354 🔗

Anonymous are pro lockdown. This video is out of character for them, and must be something staged if YouTube are not taking it down.

76157 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #913 of 1354 🔗

No acceptable level of infection. The Puritans have spoken. My emphasis below:

Stephen Reicher (SPI-B): “ David Nabarro (WHO) and I on Channel 4 News: there’s no acceptable level of infection – we need a systematic policy to drive the pandemic down along with gold standard test and trace to deal with outbreaks and comprehensive public information”


76170 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #914 of 1354 🔗

Seems ages ago when Michael Ryan stated instead, that the Swedish approach is the best way going forward, because we have to live with the virus for quite a while, if not for good- and the latter was actually confirmed today by Mr. No Silver Bullet himself.
They obviously don’t speak much to another anymore from their home offices in their rent free lakeside palaces in Geneva?!

I guess the WHO staff, the politicians, civil servants and still safely by a multinational employed of the world will only get it when their own salaries are halved or eliminated.

76162 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #915 of 1354 🔗

“Characteristics and predictors of hospitalization and death in the first 9,519 cases with a positive RT-PCR test for SARS-CoV-2 in Denmark: A nationwide cohort”
Maybe a bit boring article with description of comorbidities importance in deaths of covid-19.But the numbers of the study is impressive and they have analyzed 9,519 SARS-CoV-2 PCR-positive cases(228 677 tests) of whom 78% were community-managed, 22% were hospitalized (3.2% at an intensive care unit) and 5.5% had died within 30 days. There are no IFR calculated here. But all co-morbidties have been counted.
One interesting thing
“Authorized healthcare workers comprised 23% of all PCR positive case (Table 1). Of these, 122 case(5.6%) required hospital admission, 12 cases (0.6%) required ICU admission, and <5 cases(<0.2%) died within 30days of positive tests”
That is clearly much more than in influenza and shows the severe nosocomial dimension with Covid-19
But the table in the link is absolute best. Showing age and number of co-morbidities0% mortality under 50 and even up to 70 without co-morbidity only 1 %

76234 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to swedenborg, 1, #916 of 1354 🔗

Nice study, thank you. Interesting that in Denmark they locked down early March, and relaxed again only a month later! Also that because of their citizens’ unique ID, they could link all the patients’ previous med conditions, drugs prescribed etc, and get a full picture.
‘In this nationwide cohort of SARS-CoV-2 PCR positive cases and test-negative individuals from the
general population in Denmark, we found that older age (e.g., >70 years), male sex, and number of
comorbidities were risk factors for hospitalization and death. In the absence of comorbidities, the
mortality was, however, 5% or below until the age of 80 years. After controlling for age and sex,
virtually all comorbidities that were prevalent in our population, including e.g. hypertension, heart or
lung disease, obesity, and diabetes were associated with severe disease or death from COVID-19.
Particularly strong associations were observed for hospital-diagnosed kidney disease, severe psychiatric
disorder, and organ transplantation.’

76258 ▶▶ annie, replying to swedenborg, #917 of 1354 🔗

Health care workers wear masks all the time…

76176 RDawg, 2, #918 of 1354 🔗

Where is today’s London Calling episode? I was looking forward to it. The soothing dulcet tones of Toby’s and James’ voices, is just the tonic I need after a long Monday.

76215 jim j, replying to jim j, 8, #919 of 1354 🔗

Melbourne makes an interesting case study at the moment. It has been about 3 weeks since masks became mandatory and they seem to be having no discernible impact on increasing positive numbers of tests, neither do the severe lockdown measures. The most obvious positive correlation seems to be the number of tests carried out. Conclusion: the infections have been there all along, “it’s the testing, stupid”

76227 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to jim j, 4, #920 of 1354 🔗

Why are you assuming that that’s not a purpose of testing—to drive media reported “cases” up?..

76231 ▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to IMoz, 4, #921 of 1354 🔗

That clearly seems to be its main function now. We are hearing very little about deaths now on the MSM now.

76271 ▶▶ RyanM, replying to jim j, #922 of 1354 🔗

Oh, but just imagine how much worse it would be without the masks!

76222 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 9, #923 of 1354 🔗

Well, who couldn’t see this one coming: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-nhs-waiting-times-covid-19-treatment-a9651961.html

The impact of coronavirus on NHS waiting lists has been laid bare – with the number of patients waiting more than a year for treatment in London alone now almost 20 times the figure for the whole country in March 2019, leaked data shows.

Dumb f’cking a*sery!

76229 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to IMoz, 5, #924 of 1354 🔗

Truly scandalous. People will die in their thousands every year for the next decade or more. We might see a 100k early and unnecessary deaths. Meanwhile Sweden has kept its health service pretty much intact by avoiding a total lockdown.

76240 ▶▶ Farinances, replying to IMoz, 8, #925 of 1354 🔗

Saving the NHS by wrecking it for the next ten years……

76257 ▶▶ annie, replying to IMoz, 3, #926 of 1354 🔗

Yep, but if the crawling fearmongering Not Independent Don’t Make Me Laugh is reporting it, it’s a start. Except that it isn’t the impact of the bloody virus that’s done it. Has any Independent reader got the brains to work that out?

76277 ▶▶▶ James H, replying to annie, 4, #927 of 1354 🔗

It was always about the money. A once in a lifetime opportunity to prune the services provided by the NHS to a new “normal”.
Ditto jobs, e-money and, for me, the most alarming thing, a national DNA database and – if they go about it the right way – social control measures, coercive “good behaviour”.
Dystopian nightmare.

76279 ▶▶▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to James H, 1, #928 of 1354 🔗

Yes, dystopian. A cacotopia. Seems a good word to revive, especially because of the resonance with ‘caca’, and it sounds even worse that dystopia.

76281 ▶▶▶▶▶ James H, replying to Cambridge N, 3, #929 of 1354 🔗

An excellent suggestion when recalling the most visible symbol of this fiasco, the “face-nappy”.
We have a kakistocracy in charge now.

76347 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to James H, #930 of 1354 🔗

Hi Cambridge N and James. An Oxford man writes:
Should it be cacotopia and cacistocracy (or preferably cacocracy )
kakotopia and kakistocracy (or kakocracy ).

Got to get agreement on the spelling, for the banners 🙂

76241 Gillian, 1, #931 of 1354 🔗

Enjoyed this. Apologies if already posted


76249 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 7, #932 of 1354 🔗

Hi all

Just saw a guy on Anna Brees’ site and he simply wanted to know “How many we are?” (Sceptics/dissenters)
It hit me like a truck!
I looked at domain names but felt that the slightly tweaked version of “How many are we?” worked better.

I can really imagine marches through the worlds capitals with banners asking “How many are we?”

What do you think?

That or “We Will be free”


76256 ▶▶ annie, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #933 of 1354 🔗

We are, comparatively speaking, few.
So were The Few.
It would be silly to push the comparison very far. We don’t defy death in the sky.
But we do defy the death of.the human soul.
The many will owe us a little.

76284 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to annie, 7, #934 of 1354 🔗

Found another sceptic yesterday; got a taxi and return to Tesco, as I got back in the driver said he noticed I had not worn a mask and heard me say ‘I’m exempt thanks’.
The return journey was spent chatting about how rubbish the covid/lockdown was. After I paid my fare the driver showed me his Facebook page, lots of videos by Vernon Coleman and others.
34,000 followers but all in Turkish & Russian.

76350 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to karenovirus, #935 of 1354 🔗

i’ll let you into a little secret about taxi drivers, most of them are coke snorting whore fucking lunatics. Good guys, can’t fault them.

76274 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #936 of 1354 🔗
76283 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Lockdown Truth, 5, #937 of 1354 🔗

I think “How many are we?” is better than “We Will be Free.” We will be free is the sort of slogan that might put people off.

76253 richard riewer, 2, #938 of 1354 🔗

This is for the person who, like myself, was wondering why London Calling wasn’t broadcast today:
We regret to have had to inform Her Majesty that this week’s episode of “London Calling” is now scheduled for Tuesday. #ThereGoesMyPeerage
5:29 PM · Aug 3, 2020· Twitter Web App

76268 hotrod, replying to hotrod, 7, #939 of 1354 🔗

Utterly disgraceful BBC article from the shameful James Gallagher.

Ifs and buts and maybe….

The worlds children deserve better than this journalist pedalling scare stories when he has a had his education and is sitting comfortably at home enjoying his opportunity to strike fear into everyone.

What are the BBC gaining for letting this continue in this way?


76288 ▶▶ ScooBieDee, replying to hotrod, 6, #940 of 1354 🔗

Couldn’t agree more. When you read the study (which acknowledges similarities to the Ferguson approach), it is an orgy of assumptions and predictions. Modelling may have its place – but why do these studies get headlines in the MSM when evidence based studies (from the likes of eg Carl Heneghan) get ignored? Where is the balance? Bad journalism!

76291 ▶▶▶ hotrod, replying to ScooBieDee, 4, #941 of 1354 🔗

I am still incredulous on why Carl hasn’t been offered a full BBC interview in the ways other University Professors get on a daily basis.

Is this BBC bias to make this last as long as possible to bring down Boris?

Or BBC bias to protect Boris and his shambolic leadership. The longer this runs the less people will remember etc and then Boris can declare his personal victory etc etc.

The economic and psychological impacts on the country being carefully airbrushed out.

76293 ▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to hotrod, 1, #942 of 1354 🔗

I agree – scaremongering article.
For Twitter users, James Gallagher’s twitter address is at the bottom of the BBC article if you want to let him read your views.

76296 ▶▶ mjr, replying to hotrod, 1, #943 of 1354 🔗

But this is the BBC… They do this for everything. Their “environment” correspondents daily plant scare stories about “climate change” which are inaccurate or downright lies. They always use weasel words such as “scientists say” or “experts predict” to give the impression that these are facts and are correct. They will take some blurb from an interested party and reprint it on the website as fact without doing any “journalism” i.e. due diligence. And the reporters do not have professional training in these areas. Justin Rowlatt for example is the “Chief Environment Correspondent” and all sorts of biased rubbish comes out under his byline. You would think that we was a scientist. Wrong – his degree is in PPE,
So what is the BBC gaining you ask? It is being allowed to continue with its in house doctrines without any reference to facts or reality.

76297 ▶▶ BecJT, replying to hotrod, 1, #944 of 1354 🔗

Tedious I realise, but do complain, quick five min form online. On another campaign Im involved in, this has had results in terms of forcing them to balance their output (albeit slowly and reluctantly)

76272 hotrod, 5, #945 of 1354 🔗

Seems James Gallagher has ‘form’.


James if you are reading this, just for a moment imagine you are a school or university student or a parent who loves their children and wants the best education and life experiences for them.

To wake up and read your daily scare stories is destroying their mental health.

Your article today is bizarre, are you politically spinning this or just enjoying yourself making the young helpless and desperate.

Take a long look at yourself and ask if you could do better.

Think how that article can be re-written with the sensationalism and you may start to be taken seriously.

Please, for the sake of us all.

76275 Humanity First, 6, #946 of 1354 🔗

Powerful statement from Australia calling on Australian government to be held accountable…

Covid time to wake them up



76276 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 37, #947 of 1354 🔗

The news reported that Nicola Sturgeon says she was nearly in tears when she saw crowds of people in Scottish pubs, I also nearly wept that this is the level of our leadership in this crisis. Somehow the idea that we were going to contain this virus has morphed into the idea that we must totally eradicate this virus at all costs. We cannot afford eradication, not socially, economically or the effects on other aspects of healthcare. Our leaders are arrogant and deluded if they think they have the power to defeat this virus

Ironically the summertime asymptomatic spread of this virus may be a good way to protect us from future problems. There is no crisis, at least not in the UK, apart from crisis created by headless chicken politicians running about panicking over dodgy test results. Giving these politicians covid testing has been like giving the children a box of matches and then wondering why the house burnt down

76280 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Steve Martindale, 12, #948 of 1354 🔗

That infuriated me too. You imagine her screaming and screaming and screaming till she’s sick like Violet Elisabeth Bott. The day before she was very upset about kids playing on a beach at Portobello. Then she was advising everyone, especially Muslims for Eid, not to travel to the north of England. Usually I don’t bother, but I was so cross I commented in the National that I hoped Muslims and everyone else ignored the First Minister and started getting on with their lives. I received a reply saying something like “Yeah, go out their (sic) and hug the virus, do everyone a favour.” Yet many Scots won’t hear a word against wee Crankie.

76282 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to Steve Martindale, 17, #949 of 1354 🔗

She really is a horrible person. I’m nearly in tears every day living through this hell watching so called leaders hogging the limelight like they are performing in front of Simon Cowell.

76278 Tim Bidie, replying to Tim Bidie, 1, #950 of 1354 🔗

Many developed countries in Europe have encouraged migration, particularly Britain, circa 12 million new citizens since 1997.

That is a good thing with obvious benefits to migrants and host country alike. Britain is, in fact, a nation of migrants. English is an international trading language constructed from many different vernaculars.

The indictment is that, as a consequence of uncontrolled immigration, European developed nations have not looked after migrants as they should have been looked after

This is evidenced:

‘….some subgroups of migrants, including refugees, asylum seekers, and irregular migrants are particularly vulnerable to infectious diseases and may have worse health outcomes than the host population. In a number of EU/EEA Member States, subgroups of migrant populations are disproportionately affected by infectious diseases such as tuberculosis, HIV, and hepatitis B and C. Consequently, screening and vaccination programmes may be of benefit for newly arrived migrants’

European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control Nov 2018

Whatever its effects on the likelihood of contracting covid 19, there can be no doubt that BCG vaccination for migrants would undoubtedly have conferred health benefits:

‘The current evidence about BCG vaccination and prevention of acute respiratory infections is of high quality, as it is supported by results from 2 systematic reviews (one including meta-analysis) and 4 RCTs, which provide high level of evidence for prevention studies’


So uncontrolled migration is yet another example of ‘The Good Intentions Paving Company’

‘6 of the 15 countries most affected by COVID-19 — the United States of America, Germany, the Russian Federation, France, and the United Kingdom — were among the 15 countries from which the highest amounts of remittances were sent in 2018.’

‘Low-skilled labour migrants in crowded dormitories have been disproportionately affected by the pandemic. Examples from Saudi Arabia and Singapore, where the Ministries of Health have provided official data on the migration status of individuals who tested positive, show the differential exposure to the virus of the migrant population. According to the Saudi Ministry of Health , 75 per cent of all new confirmed cases as of 7 May 2020 were among migrants. Over 95 per cent of the confirmed cases in Singapore by 19 June 2020 were migrants, with over 93 per cent of the total cases being related to migrants’ dormitories’

Migration data portal June 2020

We know that many migrants often live in poor conditions in Europe.

‘The current inspection received evidence from 43 stakeholders, principally NGOs. Of these, two thirds (29) focused on poor property standards, with frequent references to defects, damp, dirt and vermin. Almost half (20) referred to the unsuitability of the accommodation provided for particular groups of asylum seekers’

An inspection of the Home Office’s management of asylum accommodation provision February – June 2018.

And that they suffer disproportionately from covid 19

‘Male immigrants from low- or middle-income countries are two and a half times more likely to die from the coronavirus than men born in Sweden.

Immigrant women have one and a half times higher risk than Swedish-born women.
The study covers over 3000 deaths from COVID-19 in Sweden between 5 January and 7 March. The researchers have linked the deaths to registry data for each individual.’

Science Norway 28 June 2020

If the WHO really wanted to do something useful, it would be to advise immediate BCG vaccination for all migrants who have not already been BCG vaccinated.

”These findings suggest that BCG-Tokyo has a protective effect at all ages.’

NCBI 04 Aug 2010

No wonder the governments of Merkel, Macron, Johnson and others are trying to distract us with endless pettiness.

This indictment is a grave one and leads directly to these and other leaders, including, particularly, Blair.

76286 ▶▶ Cambridge N, replying to Tim Bidie, 6, #951 of 1354 🔗

Well, it’s true that Britain is a ‘nation of migrants’ in recent history, using the percentage of foreign-born residents as a measure. But the UK, and before that England, did not have any significant immigration before about 1948. Unless we are going back to the Dark Ages I suppose.

76287 ▶▶▶ Martin Spencer, replying to Cambridge N, 2, #952 of 1354 🔗

The “White British” are overwhelmingly descended from the people who were living here 4,000 years ago.

76319 ▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to Martin Spencer, 3, #953 of 1354 🔗

And each migratory enrichment resulted in decades or centuries of conflict before integration (Romans, Anglo Saxons, Vikings, Normans). I think the Huguenots were the only significant migration where integration was swift and without conflict. Something to do with them being very similar culturally to the English and particularly hard working.

76362 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Andy Riley, 1, #954 of 1354 🔗

English ? We were Britons until all those foreign types started coming over. 🙂

76400 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Andy Riley, replying to JohnB, #955 of 1354 🔗

The Huguenots fled to England mainly in the 16th and 17th centuries, England was a thing by then.

76605 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Andy Riley, #956 of 1354 🔗

Yes, agreed. Not so much the other four groups though.

(Am I the only one who feels sorry for the Jutes – always getting left out.)

76529 ▶▶▶▶▶ Tim Bidie, replying to Andy Riley, #957 of 1354 🔗

You make a powerful argument against uncontrolled immigration, and a powerful one for more defence spending, particularly on mobile armoured formations, which, I believe, were in short supply at Hastings.

76413 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Martin Spencer, #958 of 1354 🔗

No they’re not. We’re a nation of mongrels and immigrants – and all the better for it.

… although, I admit that the last few months provide circumstantial evidence of the decline of intelligence through in-breeding. 🙂

76446 ▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, 1, #959 of 1354 🔗

that’s such bullshit. I’m Pictish and the Pictish people have lived in Fife for ten thousand years, we didn’t need some diversity from some far flung shithole coming here telling us how we could be “better” just because they’ve come here. Folk like you make me puke blood

76448 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #960 of 1354 🔗

We’re a nation of mongrels and immigrants

No, that’s flat out false. You’ve bought the establishment propaganda over the past century or so, designed to suppress resistance to mass immigration for the purpose of importing cheap labour.

The “facts” you think you know are simply false, and those falsehoods have been systematically taught to our children in school and pushed into our households by the BBC for decades. You have not been exposed to effective dissent on the topic because it’s mostly censored.

The truth is better described by Cambridge N and Ossettian above. The only sense in which “Britain is a nation of immigrants” is that there were indeed historical movements of peoples, but that’s on the scale of millennia not recent history. In fact, for the past few centuries, until the past few decades, immigration into Britain did happen, but was numerically and genetically trivial. Where there were immigrations that were culturally significant, such as the Huguenots, they nevertheless involved tiny numbers compared to today’s movements.

Unsurprisingly and not unusually, you are very sensitive to being propagandised, except where the propaganda suits your own political preferences.

76345 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #961 of 1354 🔗

Immigrants are just people fleeing their own shithole to come here and tun us into a shithole and allowing the government to silence the majority who don’t like this.

76419 ▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Biker, #962 of 1354 🔗

Well – a succession of recent governments from Thatcher onwards has done a pretty good job of creating a deepening shit-hole without any external help.

76447 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to RickH, #963 of 1354 🔗

Mrs Thatcher saved this country and the fact you don’t know this shows how your a dumb fuck lefty wanker

76368 ▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Tim Bidie, 5, #964 of 1354 🔗

Am I on the guardian blog?

76376 ▶▶ Fenlander, replying to Tim Bidie, 2, #965 of 1354 🔗

“Many developed countries in Europe have encouraged migration, particularly Britain, circa 12 million new citizens since 1997.

That is a good thing with obvious benefits to migrants and host country alike. Britain is, in fact, a nation of migrants.”

I don’t suppose you could run through those obvious benefits, I’m drawing a blank.


76484 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tim Bidie, #966 of 1354 🔗

Many developed countries in Europe have encouraged migration, particularly Britain, circa 12 million new citizens since 1997.
That is a good thing with obvious benefits to migrants and host country alike. Britain is, in fact, a nation of migrants.

First, the factual error: Britain is in no honest and relevant sense a “nation of immigrants”. In fact for the past few centuries numbers of immigrants were relatively trivial, until the C20th, and especially the late C20th. Immigration was occasionally culturally significant, but never in sufficient numbers to be genetically or demographically significant. That you believe you “know” that “Britain is a nation of immigrants” is the result of intentional, systematic propaganda over decades.

Now the issue of migration, good or bad. Migration is obviously neither entirely good nor entirely bad. There are advantages and disadvantages to it, and which carries the balance varies according to the circumstances and, especially, the numbers. Mass immigration is almost always a bad thing, because it is massively destabilising. We have had to have unprecedented restrictions imposed on our fundamental freedoms of speech and of association in order to accommodate the mass immigration of the C20th and C21st.

Diversity does have some inherent advantages, but it also (contrary to modern US sphere dogma) has significant disadvantages. Fundamentally, a nation state works because there is sufficient cultural homogeneity for laws and norms to be adopted largely by consensus. Increased diversity weakens and ultimately destroys the possibility of such consensus, leaving only repression to keep society in order. A culturally diverse state is an empire, not a nation.

And of course, mass immigration leaves the nations losing population impoverished, losing people who are in many cases their most dynamic and best educated, and monies sent back to support families can never fully replace their energy and competence.

76295 ▶▶ Strange Days, replying to smileymiley, 11, #968 of 1354 🔗

The one by the owner of Pimlico Plumbers is in a similar vein: Get back to normal now to prevent total economic disaster.

Is the tide turning? There are more such articles and the coronaporn is no longer unchallenged.

76313 ▶▶▶ annie, replying to Strange Days, 9, #969 of 1354 🔗

From where I work, I can see the tide rising and falling hour by hour. When it turns, at first you scarcely notice. It advances slowly, slowly.
Then there’s a rush. Swoosh. Tide is in.

76444 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to annie, 4, #970 of 1354 🔗

The tide on the River Dee between Connah’s Quay and Chester behaves differently from most tidal rivers. Due to the shape of the estuary, the tide ebbs for almost eleven hours. But when the tide turns, it floods for an hour, pouring upriver in a gushing flood.

I believe we are standing during that quiet moment, just as the ebb eases. The flood is coming.

76631 ▶▶▶▶▶ DRW, replying to Nick Rose, #971 of 1354 🔗

I want to believe you Nick but I’m not sure where and when that flood will come from at this rate.

76299 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to smileymiley, 13, #972 of 1354 🔗

Drip drip, yes I think the tide has finally turned. The comments below the article are certainly different to what they were in May and June.

Whitty and Johnson screwed up last week, many had been patient but Friday broke that resolve.

76305 ▶▶▶ Basics, replying to hotrod, 7, #973 of 1354 🔗

Happy to buy your assessment hotrod. Please don’t be wrong!

In Scotland I fancy some are getting lazy and we are getting a sense of no personal threat, the kind if tgreat SAGE din’t want.

Once remeberance of Gulf War Syndrome occurs I hope tge vaccine effort will flounder as the lockdowns surely will.

Good times to come.

76301 ▶▶ hotrod, replying to smileymiley, 3, #974 of 1354 🔗

Can we pin this article somewhere so everyone can read and share onwards today?

76316 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to hotrod, #975 of 1354 🔗

Have asked Toby if that can be done.

76361 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to smileymiley, 7, #976 of 1354 🔗

Excellent article. Especially this:

With most MPs content to stay home in their constituencies since March, Westminster has become a ghost town. There has been no proper scrutiny of the Government’s handling of the crisis.

And now, after the exertions of all those Zoom sessions, Parliament is in recess as MPs enjoy six weeks’ paid holiday.

The Commons should be recalled immediately. If it’s safe for holidaymakers to sit cheek-by-jowl on aeroplanes, and for diners to enjoy cut-price piri-piri chicken and chips in state-subsidised restaurants, it should be safe enough for socially distanced MPs to reoccupy the green benches at Westminster.

Politicians should be leading by example, not relaxing on the beaches while our increasingly erratic leaders tinker with deranged schemes such as placing everyone over 50 under house arrest.

In the end, we’re all going to die of something. We can’t spend the rest of our lives trying to postpone the inevitable. Short of an effective vaccine, we will to have to learn to live with corona, in a grown-up fashion, for the forseeable future — not keep stumbling from one emergency lockdown to another.

Britain needs a serious plan to get us out of this catastrophic Covid-induced coma right now.

This is perhaps the reason why our MPs don’t care – they haven’t been furloughed, their jobs are not threatened, there’s no bankruptcy or redundancy hanging over their heads like the Sword of Damocles.

This also shows that we don’t need that many MPs. What purpose do they serve anyway?

Slash their numbers and slash their pay (minimum wage tops). To be an MP is supposed to be public service and if they don’t like it, they can find jobs elsewhere that would pay what they think they’re worth.

76300 mjr, 5, #977 of 1354 🔗

From the BBC

“Players who deliberately cough at other players or match officials can be red-carded, say football’s rule-makers and the Football Association.
The International Football Association Board (Ifab) said such an offence fell within “using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or gestures”.
It added: “As with all offences, the referee has to make a judgement about the true nature of the offence.”
The guidance comes amid the global coronavirus pandemic………….”

Glad that has been sorted out!! Whole new meaning to being hacked down from behind

76302 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 16, #978 of 1354 🔗

Was just in McDs this morning. Saw the mask notice and about ordering so since the restaurant was open I thought I’d sit down instead. When I’m ordering I heard a voice saying I needed to wear a mask while using the touch screen. Then I look round and a young girl who works there is telling me I need to wear a mask.

We basically got into a slightly heated spat. I said “It’s not law” she replies with “It’s the guidelines”. I’m saying “Do you want my money or not?”

All this while I’m still finalising my order. I’m half ignoring her anyway. She ends up muttering I was being rude.

I then sat down at a table and went up to the counter to pick up my meal. Then sat down and ate. After about5 minutes I walked out and ate the rest in the car.

I noticed the track and trace but didn’t have my phone. Wouldn’t do it anyway. I was trying to be as normal as possible. And I wanted to eat.

She never asked me if I was exempt. But I don’t blame her for having to follow the “rules” but don’t be surprised if there is kickback.

This will bring division if we let it. There is also no point in fighting it. Just do what you want. Be normal. Lead by example where you can without being too enraged!

76388 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to mhcp, #979 of 1354 🔗

That’s a derelection of duty on the part of McDs on not informing their staff of the exemptions and not to challenge customers lest they end up in the dock for disability discrimination and violation of the Equality Act.

Very bad. I would complain if I were you.

76465 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Bart Simpson, #980 of 1354 🔗

I understand but don’t see the point. I’m waiting for the shame to come. This will break and those who went along with it are going to have to sit and stew in the fact that as Jordan Peterson points out, yes you would have been a Nazi

76315 Margaret, replying to Margaret, 37, #981 of 1354 🔗

Up early this morning so I decided to take a look at how Toby’s site has developed over the course of this panicdemic. It’s hard to believe that he only started LS on 15th April, less than four months ago, but it seems he’s been here forever for us all.

The first page started with one solitary comment. Since then (dare I say it?) the number of comments has grown exponentially and is reaching a thousand every day.

Many of the early posters seem to have vanished (gone back to work?) but we’ve been joined by new ones. There are the regular posters: Biker, Bart, BecTJ, guy, Tim Birdie, Nick Rose, Poppy, …….sorry I can’t mention you all but you know who you are. I feel like you’ve become friends.

Many of you have contributed from your own areas of expertise and experience, whether that’s I.T. and computer modelling, medicine, social work, or like kh in the service sector. All these have been so valuable in helping us access the facts.

There have been those comments that made us laugh, made us cry, made us angry, but helped sustain us by pointing out that we were not alone and isolated and that there were real people going through exactly the same situations that we were ourselves. There will be many people who come here just to read, but never comment. We appreciate your presence too.

It’s also interesting to look at how the headlines have changed too, from the early days looking at the economic impact of lockdown, through to discovering that this was never going to be the new bubonic plague and most importantly, the gradual awakening of minds.

One thing that must never change however is our determination to fight against the abomination that has been inflicted on us. As Mark would put it, “Never forget, never forgive”

Thank you Toby, thank you everyone.

76338 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Margaret, 13, #982 of 1354 🔗

you remembered me first in your list, how cool is that. I’m still here pissed off that this whole mess, still not wearing a mask and still hating every second of this. Johnston truly is a fucking fat useless bastard and i can only surmise that for him to be doing he’s either a child fucker and they’ve pictures or it’s just plain old money that buys him. We can see if we have eyes how none of the people in Westminster are there to do the bidding of the British people. Like in Trumps America no matter how deep you go the swamp is deeper. You’d have to be Capitan Nero to get to the bottom. Blood is gonna be spilled on the streets and from neighbour to neighbour because if this shit carries on for much longer millions of people are gonna have nothing How long do those middle class wankers watching the BBC and smugly telling the rest of us how we should all be faggot mask wearing black live matter loving fucking cunts before they have to suffer?
We stand on the brink of the total destruction of the UK and for what? fifty thousand dead people from the flu. People die all the fucking time and this flu ain’t fuck all different. This whole sham has nothing to do with the flu and everything to do with killing us. The masses will be begging for a vaccine and they’ll troop off and get it where upon millions will die from it and no one who takes it will be able to have children. Then the people at the top can have the earth to themselves while cattle like us will all be dead. I’m not even joking. They are gonna kill you. This is why i’m always saying there is gonna be a war. Between those who want to live with all it’s risks and those who support their own genocide because they’re so comfortable they can’t see the coming holocaust. The two wars were nothing to what these people have planned.

76351 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Biker, 1, #983 of 1354 🔗

How could I forget your posts Biker and your determination to stick your head above the parapet? Your language may be ripe and if I met you in the flesh in all your leathers, you may well appear terrifying to me, but here on this website, you are my friend! Thanks.

76363 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Margaret, 4, #984 of 1354 🔗

I’m actually a very cultured, intellectual, happy go lucky person whom wouldn’t hurt a fly. I create art and music and ride motorcycles very fast for the thrills. I swear a lot in my posts but would never swear in public, my mother would not approve and since my mother is the living embodiment of Mrs Thatcher and i still respect her so i conduct myself if she were watching. You will find that almost all bikers are very smart people who are engineers and the like. The image of the bad ass biker is some kind of gay Hollywood shit from the minds of drug addled fantasists who think being a biker is like being a Hells Angel.

76387 ▶▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Biker, 2, #985 of 1354 🔗

Totally agree with you, we bikers are very nice people.

76503 ▶▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Biker, 1, #986 of 1354 🔗

I just love the idea of your mum being the living embodiment of Mrs Thatcher!

76564 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Margaret, 2, #987 of 1354 🔗

Right down to the hair and pearls. She’s in her 80’s and still sharper than almost anyone you’ll meet.

76354 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 3, #988 of 1354 🔗

Cheerful Biker ! A very good morning to you too sir. 🙂

76356 ▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to JohnB, 1, #989 of 1354 🔗

i’m preparing to go to my friends funeral tomorrow and i feel like he’s got off lightly, the bastard. He’s dead now and doesn’t have to suffer this pish. Lucky fucker.

76386 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 1, #990 of 1354 🔗

Give him a good send-off.

76434 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Biker, replying to JohnB, 3, #991 of 1354 🔗

I’ve just checked government advice and apparently once you’re cremated they have to quarantine the ashes for two weeks before you can scatter them and then you’re only allowed to scatter them while wearing a mask and five miles out at sea. .

76526 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Biker, 1, #992 of 1354 🔗

Quarantine the ashes ?!?! Stunning fuckwittery – what temperature do crematoria function at ?

76360 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Margaret, 4, #993 of 1354 🔗

“the gradual awakening of minds”

Absolutely. But in tandem with the gradual awakening, mostly here and at a few other sites where sceptics gather, there is the bizarre, pig-headed refusal to wake up.

The failure to notice or respond to the seamless transition from flattening the curve to terror of even the occasional potential “case”.

The refusal to face up to the contribution of increased testing to increased “cases”, as Bella Donna pointed out just now.

The continued determination to pay attention to the nonsense pumped out by modelling, proven disastrously wrong time after time, instead of looking at what actually happens, as Will just pointed out.

But as you rightly say, this site has been a great place to thrash out the issues with intelligent and informed people. Free discussion really does get closer to the truth than debate controlled by “experts” with suppressed dissent. Shame that we as a society have over the past few decades moved away from the former and towards the latter, a shift that has been brought into sharp focus by its effects in this coronapanic.

If and when the worst is over, remember who pushed us into this mess, and who tried to suppress the truth and how and with what arguments they did it.

As you rightly remind us, Margaret: never forget, never forgive.

76377 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Margaret, 2, #994 of 1354 🔗

You’re welcome. I do despair especially with my sector, the compulsory face nappies on 8 August would ensure that compulsory redundancies will be on the cards in my workplace. So in the next few months, I can look at the possibility of being out of work. Thanks Boris Jong Son and Lieutenant Gruber.

The day of reckoning can’t come soon enough and indeed we should “never forget, never forgive” and of course, “never again”

76317 NickR, 10, #995 of 1354 🔗

That’s a surprise, Scots kids haven’t been at school for 6 months, the school system has been in freefall for years & hey-presto the kids have suddenly produced record results! Well that’s taken the Scots back up the league tables. Well done Nicola.

76318 NickR, replying to NickR, 6, #996 of 1354 🔗

BBC running story this morning that if schools & office workers go back we’ll have 2 x as bad an epidemic this winter. Well that probably puts a tin-lid on the recovery.

76326 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to NickR, 1, #997 of 1354 🔗

How can you bear to watch it?

76341 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella Donna, 4, #998 of 1354 🔗

I guess there’s a “know your enemy” argument for keeping an eye on the msm’s propaganda output. It’s a dangerous game, though. When you gaze into the abyss the abyss looks back. Or to move to a more recent writer, it can be like in the Lord of the Rings, where Denethor uses the Palantir to spy on Sauron and is led to despair – you can be affected by propaganda even when you are in theory alert to the possibility.

76349 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Mark, 1, #999 of 1354 🔗

Quality, Mark. It is beyond most people’s comprehension the technical and psychological expertise the bad guys have in this area.

76380 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to JohnB, 1, #1000 of 1354 🔗

Just thought, Pippin was also a victim of the very advanced communication/control method too. And he just picked it up for a second … 🙂

76408 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mr Dee, replying to JohnB, 1, #1001 of 1354 🔗

An article on Palantir technologies.


The company acknowledges that its technology is used to kill people.”

“Conversely, Palantir also is helping the Department of Health and Human Services understand how coronavirus is spreading.”

76348 ▶▶ Sally, replying to NickR, #1002 of 1354 🔗

Is normal life ever going to resume? I’m beginning to seriously wonder.

76522 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sally, 1, #1003 of 1354 🔗

It’s up to us.

76420 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to NickR, 4, #1004 of 1354 🔗

In that case send the schools and offices back but furlough the useless cretins who by reading an outocue think they are journalists, pundits or scientists.

It’s just occurred to me that there are far more people at home surfing FB, Twitter and MSM and still being paid to do so and believing the bile that comes out of their mouths.

Send everyone back to work and stop the brainwashing

76440 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to stefarm, 3, #1005 of 1354 🔗

Indeed. As St Benedict has said “an idle mind is the Devil’s workshop” and when they’re working they won’t have time for all of the bollocks that comes out of the MSM and antisocial media.

76671 ▶▶▶▶ stefarm, replying to Bart Simpson, #1006 of 1354 🔗

👍 👊

76320 Geraint, replying to Geraint, 19, #1007 of 1354 🔗

Just a thought. I was in church last Sunday, not because I am a churchgoer normally but to show some support to an institution in the community. One of the saddest things I have seen in this entire Covid/ lockdown ‘fiascoutrage’. The minister at the front in face panties and visor muffling his way through the service, no hymns of course and then for communion the masked congregation shuffled disconsolately to receive the ‘body of Christ’ . Not his blood of course – sipping from goblet strictly banned. The most pathetic thing was seeing on the projected screen at the point where we normally turn around to others around and say ‘peace be with you’ and shake hands, the words ‘Please refrain from sharing the peace’ – summed it up really. The CoE and its ridiculous leader, wet Welby, has become one of the most supine, grovelling handmaidens to this disgraceful assault on people’s lives. I mean if you don’t actually have the faith that God trumps any earthly hysteria then you really are lost….

76324 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Geraint, 3, #1008 of 1354 🔗

The powers that be see this as way of removing religion from our lives. What a God sent opportunity (forgive the pun) to erase God or so they think.

76329 ▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #1009 of 1354 🔗

Saw a very depressing sign outside our lovely Norman church yesterday: ‘Church is not a building’ and then an e-mail address for the vicar.

I’m not religious but that really saddened me.

76367 ▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 7, #1010 of 1354 🔗

But it is isn’t it! Churches are, and always have been, a repository of human lives as lived through the centuries – history in the form of a (quite often) beautiful building.
Denying access to this history and the reassurance it can bring is, to me, shocking. The spinelessness of the bishops throughout lockdown has appalled me.
I’m not religious but have always loved looking at churches to ‘read’ the community it serves.

76383 ▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to bluemoon, 2, #1011 of 1354 🔗

Exactly. It’s a beautiful church, but ruined recently by having the pews ripped out and replaced by office chairs. So sad that it is not being used.

The vicar’s probably loving all this. He was absolutely useless at my mum’s funeral: he left the eulogy at home and, though others found this funny, didn’t check that her grave had been dug – I mercifully found that out with just a few hours to spare before her funeral. I’m still pretty angry about that.

76410 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ bluemoon, replying to kh1485, 1, #1012 of 1354 🔗

I should think you are!
I’ve been spared the ineptitude of the clergy fortunately, although I have friends within the local congregation. All incredibly law abiding, mild mannered (how do I fit in you may well ask), generous people but which perhaps partly explains the adherence to lockdown rules.

77059 ▶▶▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to bluemoon, #1013 of 1354 🔗

They don’t serve communities, they serve the government.

76332 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Bella Donna, 12, #1014 of 1354 🔗

I’m not religious. If anything I’m anti-religious. I’m not involved in church, or the recent Eid celebrations, but I am furious about those choices being stolen from people who are just trying to lead peaceful, law abiding lives. And as for that theft being based on fake ‘science’, while the real facts are ignored, well, the phrase ‘righteous indignation’ comes to mind.

76334 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Bella Donna, 13, #1015 of 1354 🔗

I do not think they could have succeeded if religion hadn’t already been effectively erased. The idea of suspending church services out of fear of spreading a relatively minor disease is pretty fundamentally humanist and anti-religious. Then again, my impression is that that is exactly what the mainstream church hierarchies are these days – basically humanists posturing as Christians.

Not to say that there aren’t genuine Christians around. They just aren’t the ones running the show.

76353 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, 4, #1016 of 1354 🔗

What we’re seeing is the true dominance of the religion people really believe in, which one might call “Scientism”.

I actually think our relationship to the other religions has become healthier by being less literal. In the middle ages people would have been coming to the churches in the genuine belief it would literally and directly protect them from whatever plagues were doing the rounds at the time. We still see that behaviour but it’s focused on mystical pronouncements of “The Science”.

76373 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, 1, #1017 of 1354 🔗

Not sure it’s necessarily healthier overall, just different. The worship of Science has made people every bit as unduly credulous towards authority as worship of other gods ever did.

76403 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, 1, #1018 of 1354 🔗

I see the opposite of any ‘worship’ of ‘science’ at the moment – what’s going on is much more yet another fer-driven religious cult.

76536 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Mark, #1019 of 1354 🔗

I don’t mean the worship of Science– that’s a horrible religion. I mean it’s healthier to take the established religions less literally.

76617 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, #1020 of 1354 🔗

Perhaps, though I tend to be tempted by the “conservation of human credulousness” position.

76385 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to guy153, #1021 of 1354 🔗

I’m not sure it’s necessarily healthier overall, though. As with so much “progress”, it’s just different.

The worship of Science has made people every bit as unduly credulous towards undeserving human authorities as worship of other gods ever did.

76394 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to guy153, #1022 of 1354 🔗

Pseudo-Science and Pseudo-Scientism.
‘Proving’ an already foregone conclusion and then not allowing for any dissent.
Made for and spread by TV.

76406 ▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, #1023 of 1354 🔗

In the middle ages people would have been coming to the churches in the genuine belief it would literally and directly protect them from whatever plagues were doing the rounds at the time.

Does ‘The Science’ show they were not protected ? 🙂

76372 ▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to Mark, #1024 of 1354 🔗

Do get out of that ‘poor me’ religious silo.

I have every sympathy with you wishing to follow your persuasions. But this isn’t ‘anti-religious’. It’s ‘anti-society’. It’s affecting everybody who engages in group activities in the widest sense – be it cinema, theatre, knitting circles, musical performance – you name it.

76395 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to RickH, 1, #1025 of 1354 🔗

I’m not Christian myself, I’ve just watched the progress of religion in our society, from a broadly sympathetic perspective, for some decades now. I am pro-Christian, though, albeit mostly as it was when it contributed to building European and Anglo-Saxon societies into the most powerful and objectively best, on many counts, the world has ever seen. (By no means perfect, of course, and you could as well say “least worst” as “best”, but that’s mere semantics).

76378 ▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to Mark, 3, #1026 of 1354 🔗

In some countries Christians risk their lives to meet together for collective prayer and worship.
When church services were suspended by the government, the church effectively said yes please, we would like to be closed down. We need to show how we are still the moral heart of the nation.
I also think many in leadership in the CofE actually believed this was bubonic plague again, so dangerous, that parishioners could not be trusted to make the decision to risk attending.

76397 ▶▶▶▶▶ RickH, replying to James007, 2, #1027 of 1354 🔗

we are still the moral heart of the nation.”

Oh per..lease. ‘Religion’ and ‘morality’ aren’t identical.

There will be a lot of church-goers involved in perpetuating this scam – starting with Welby.

76697 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ James007, replying to RickH, #1028 of 1354 🔗

Oh per..lease. ‘Religion’ and ‘morality’ aren’t identical”

That is obviously true. I didn’t say they were.

Church leaders, as with many in prominent positions outside the church, associate looking good with being good . It’s quite pharisaical.

76415 ▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to James007, 3, #1029 of 1354 🔗

the church effectively said yes please, we would like to be closed down. We need to show how we are still the moral heart of the nation .”

Perhaps that’s what they thought they were saying. In fact they were just saying that their faith is subordinate to the convenience of the secular authorities. And not in a “render unto caesar” sense, either.)

I also think many in leadership in the CofE actually believed this was bubonic plague again, so dangerous, that parishioners could not be trusted to make the decision to risk attending .”

I do not think that is credible. They might have pretended to themselves that was what they were doing, but the basic facts were so clear even at the outset, that this was a disease that would kill a few percent at most, that nobody could honestly see it that way. Rather they saw it as a way to signal their supposed “if it saves one life” virtue, just like the other humanists. A true Christian would say that faith is more important than such small risks of death and that while all reasonable precautions could be taken, that should not be allowed to actually halt basic practices, and while they would mourn those who might perish a little sooner than otherwise, they would do so in the sure and certain hope of resurrection etc..

76436 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Fenlander, replying to Mark, 4, #1030 of 1354 🔗

I don’t believe the CoE leadership regard critical thinking as their fiefdom. You can see this by how they’re 100% on-board with the other mass delusion which is climate change hysteria.

76460 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Fenlander, 2, #1031 of 1354 🔗

It’s fine if they want to avoid critical thinking. But then they should shut up when the adults are discussing complicated issues outside their areas of expertise…

76398 ▶▶ davews, replying to Geraint, 3, #1032 of 1354 🔗

I am an active member of our church (Methodist) and on several committees so am expected to be very much a part of it. Our first service in the building will be on August 23rd (where we have to say goodbye to our minister who is moving so a sort of special occasion). The son of one of the property committee members went down with the virus so naturally they are trying to rigidly stick to the rules.What has been suggested so far makes me feel I would be better staying away, and since in theory I am down as door steward duty that day I cannot really do that as I would be asking people to do things (like sanitising hands, get your mask on, THAT is your seat) that I strongly disagree with. No idea on what the mask policy will be and in fact the Methodist Church hasn’t updated their guidance after BoJos latest decree but if I have to read the lessons with a mask I shall decline that as well.

The church should have been one of the large organisations campaigning against all the silly rules but of course with Welby in charge of the COE that is not going to happen. I keep asking myself what Jesus would have done, it is worse than the crucifixion.

76323 Bella Donna, replying to Bella Donna, 19, #1033 of 1354 🔗

I cannot believe the government and so called experts haven’t worked out that with increased testing you will discover more of the virus! What is evident is that the virus isnt as harmful to the majority of people as they made out. In fact most of us are immune to it. Yes that’s right immuned because our immune systems are doing their job! Clever aren’t they?

76336 ▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Bella Donna, 8, #1034 of 1354 🔗

As per Dr John Lee, the most common CCP Virus symptom is nothing!

76355 ▶▶ Cicatriz, replying to Bella Donna, 2, #1035 of 1354 🔗

Yep. It’s a red flag that the tests are not reported as a percentage of the tests taken.

76393 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #1036 of 1354 🔗

I have a sneaking suspicion, call me a cynic, that they are well aware of that!

77052 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to IanE, -1, #1037 of 1354 🔗

Oh yes, they know what they are doing and it seems to be going to plan. Piss off the natives enough, so that they will gladly roll up their sleeves, for the Bill Gates genocidal witches brew, jokingly called a vaccine.

76331 Will, replying to Will, 24, #1038 of 1354 🔗

More f’cking modelling rather than observing the data from every other country on the planet that shows schools reopening make no difference to the spread of this cold. The scientists are loving their fifteen minutes of fame and are determined to maintain the grip this hopeless government has allowed them over the country.

76335 ▶▶ bluemoon, replying to Will, 6, #1039 of 1354 🔗

If only it WAS just 15 minutes!!

76339 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Will, 13, #1040 of 1354 🔗

Totally agree. The closure of schools is one of the greatest cruelties of this fiasco and I cannot believe that, on this point if no other, they cannot bring themselves to do what is so obviously right and get these poor children back as normal.

76365 ▶▶▶ Will, replying to Jenny, 10, #1041 of 1354 🔗

My daughter is has an autoimmune condition, is undergoing chemotherapy and her medical team are happy for her to return to school. Three paediatricians have now told me that Covid simply doesn’t affect children yet still this nonsense is perpetuated.

76418 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Will, 5, #1042 of 1354 🔗

And there it is. Concrete evidence. Real medicine. Parental consent. All being ignored.

76629 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Jenny, #1043 of 1354 🔗

Certainly cruel to parents, but joking aside teachers are the main problem and they are now looking for 12 months holiday every year.

76624 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Will, -1, #1044 of 1354 🔗

There is a lot more going on that “scientists” basking in the limelight. There is a concerted effort being made to take most of us down. The Bill Gates vaccines are springing up like weeds and are the main tools in this genocidal purge.

76337 Nicky, replying to Nicky, 9, #1045 of 1354 🔗

Just been in my local Spar. Queuing to pay (no mask, but am in Wales!) and saw display of ‘ready to wear, easy clean, reusable masks’ for sale – one set for adults and one for kids – ‘one size fits all for each. Was interested in the ‘easy to clean, reusable’ bit advertised so looked at the back of packet for cleaning instructions- wash at 40 degrees…. how on earth is that going to kill germs?? And I am thinking not thinking of Covid virus necessarily, but also of the non-Covid variety/bacteria that will accumulate on these things as people wear them and carry them around ? Pointed it out to person behind plastic screen and face visor at the till who just shrugged! Went across the road to buy fruit and veg from street market just reopened. Cheered by friendly non mask wearing market stall people. Great conversation about stupidity of it all and those people supposedly on furlough going on long holiday breaks over summer. Lady next to me shared she has been working all through this, as have I, and commented that if one more person tells her they are ‘bored’ she will not be responsible for her actions. Said I would be right behind her, and told her about this site which she had not heard of. Reminder to me to get out more and keep spreading the word 🤗

76364 ▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Nicky, 1, #1046 of 1354 🔗

Some towns in France are making masks compulsory outside your house. Since they realise that masks are expensive, some mayors are kindly insisting that the cost should be reimbursed! Apparently the number of covid19 patients in ICUs has gone up by 13 in a week. Don’t know how many there were before. Don’t know the age of these people. Very depressing.

76382 ▶▶▶ Jane in France, replying to Jane in France, 3, #1047 of 1354 🔗

To reply to myself, there is a good site here https://coronavirus.politologue.com/carte-de-france/ which shows numbers of deaths, numbers in hospital, numbers in ICUs, numbers who have gone home. A glance at the reanimation column suggests there are about 300 people in intensive care at the moment in the entire country. Surely the health services can cope.

76426 ▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to Jane in France, 2, #1048 of 1354 🔗

The insanity virus is obviously spreading across borders.

76915 ▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Jane in France, #1049 of 1354 🔗

Bonjour Jane,
whereabouts are you?
I’m in the Aude.

76346 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 20, #1050 of 1354 🔗

Dear Government/MSM/’Experts’,

You know how kids can’t go back to school, cos they and the teachers will instantly die?
Well, how come, right now, they are out playing in the street, nursing their dollies, riding their bikes, falling all over each other, meeting their mates in shops and hanging around on corners, without dying?
Asking for a citizen. Thanks.

76492 ▶▶ watashi, replying to Sam Vimes, #1051 of 1354 🔗

and playing in parks, touching the swings and play equipment other walking child biohazards touched seconds ago, not anti-social distancing, not muzzled, talking and playing with each other (oh! the horror!) how can such behaviour be permitted?

76357 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 8, #1052 of 1354 🔗

Had the misfortune to sit with the wife while she watched ITV news last night. It made me and.

On Central News the amount of lies and idiocy spewed as fact about social distancing, track and trace and what you MUST do was just sickening,

Then on the main news Emily Morgan the ex-political now health editor was doing a bullshit piece on the new testing kits etc and at the end (which is not included in the little videos on their site or I would post a link) was her complaining to the main teleprompter reader that the importance of testing was not getting through and “more needs to be done to get this through to the masses”.

Calling us “the masses” just showed the contempt that these semi-educated media luvvies have for us.

That was me madder than hell.

I would write to them and OFCOM but no-one ever acknowledges any correspondence.

76384 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1053 of 1354 🔗

But testing is important.
It ensures a sufficiently high number of false Positives, even if the virus was completely eradicated.
Therefore, it ensures that the politicians and the media can suppress and brainwash the masses for good.

76389 ▶▶▶ IanE, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1054 of 1354 🔗

Sadly, yes, that seems to be the point. Stalin’s Russia creeps up on us daily.

76432 ▶▶▶▶ AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to IanE, 2, #1055 of 1354 🔗

I’m reading Stephen Kotkin’s books on Stalin now. The parallels are very scary.

76488 ▶▶▶▶▶ watashi, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1056 of 1354 🔗

I m reading Plague of Corruption by Judy Mikovits
and Kent Heckenlively. I would say it
s a must read if you are even remotely interested in the health of humanity.

76392 ▶▶ Biker, replying to Awkward Git, 4, #1057 of 1354 🔗

Why don’t you just turn off the TV and go do something less boring instead? Good show that, i used to watch it when i were a kid, though i never made it past the titles because i took their advice and fucked off outside on my bike or with a football or an air riffle and did stuff kids in the 70’s did. It’s almost like those who watch tv now have to watch it and believe every word that comes out it, it’s truly frightening.

76431 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Biker, 1, #1058 of 1354 🔗

I timed my after dinner beer in the garden wrong and screwed up.

Thought I had missed it.

Lesson learned – if I mistime the beer again go and have another one. Getting picture no sound for days for getting drunk is infinitely better than sitting through MSM news.

76476 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1059 of 1354 🔗

You and your wife’s big mistake is watching this sh*te in the first place. First rule of staying sane and ‘normal’—don’t read or watch ANY mainstream news.

76563 ▶▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Harry hopkins, #1060 of 1354 🔗

I know, it was a mistake by me, should have left her sitting there by herself.

For some reason she likes watching the local news if if it is all bullshit as she says it is. I think it’s to see if somewhere or someone she knows crops up or on Central news it’s to see what natty suit Des the weatherman is wearing that evening.

76609 ▶▶▶ matt, replying to Harry hopkins, 3, #1061 of 1354 🔗

I switched off the bbc around 3 weeks ago and haven’t switched it back on again. I quite enjoy getting the headlines here instead, once someone else has had a chance to demolish them.

76358 Biggles, replying to Biggles, 7, #1062 of 1354 🔗

Sitrep from sunny Darlo.

Went out for dinner at a country pub last night with Mrs Biggles and two friends. It was our first time since the pubs re-opened so I wasn’t sure what to expect.

I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised as the only real difference was the socially distanced tables inside (there were also tables outside on a patio area). In theory there was a one way system in operation but everyone could go pretty much where they wanted. There were no plastic screens anywhere, there was no hand sanitiser and the staff weren’t wearing masks. There was also no track and trace. Overall it was very enjoyable.

The only disappointing aspect of the evening was the attitude of our friends. We didn’t really talk much about Covid-19 but as I had taken my mask exempt card along in case it was needed (it wasn’t) I decided to show them it. Tony is 67 and has COPD so has a real reason to have one. His response was ‘It’s OK, I’ll keep using the mask’. Sue is 70 and has had health problems for the last 15 years. All she said was ‘Why would I have one of those?’ I didn’t say anything as it would probably have ruined the evening but it just shows how people are sleepwalking into this and how compliant they are.

In a way it was a shame that there was no track and trace as I had already worked out my strategy. For my contact details, to paraphrase Eric Morecambe, I would have given them all the right numbers, but not necessarily in the right order.

76379 ▶▶ IanE, replying to Biggles, 6, #1063 of 1354 🔗

Yes, the compliance seems to be almost universal. I was shopping at a Tesco yesterday [in Suffolk – a region with extremely low levels of virus infections] and must have seen at least 100 people. Everyone but me was masked (all staff too) – so at least 99% compliance. At least noone, staff or customers, seemed to pay any attention to my state, though.

76414 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to IanE, 3, #1064 of 1354 🔗

They probably didn’t like to say anything, because you are obviously going to die, poor love.

76421 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Biggles, 2, #1065 of 1354 🔗

We went to a pub lunch on Saturday.
Completely normal experience, no requests for phone number, no masks. Some people were sitting inside, some outside.
There was a Chinese family with small children near our table. Then we see a mother and 7 year old girl put their masks on and go to the toilet inside. I despair!

76359 Ned of the Hills, replying to Ned of the Hills, 8, #1066 of 1354 🔗

If in the future it is firmly established with copper bottomed certainty that wearing masks was utterly pointless – will there be a reckoning? I doubt it.

76371 ▶▶ Will, replying to Ned of the Hills, 6, #1067 of 1354 🔗

Even if it is established, as I am convinced, that masks spread disease rather than stop it there still won’t be a reckoning.

76531 ▶▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Will, #1068 of 1354 🔗

Yes, that’s my view – they’ll be no reckoning. Sorry about that, honest mistake. That’s alright then.

76375 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #1069 of 1354 🔗

Unless evidence or whistleblowers can be found that the whole thing was a con, or that politicians/scientists recognized their initial mistakes but then decided to double down on them rather than change course, or that Sweden booms healthily henceforth while we will get a higher death rate and a huge long lasting economic depression, any reckoning by them and above all the whole people, will be far off or never, allowed to, happen.

76391 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Jay Berger, 2, #1070 of 1354 🔗

Have you noticed that the media stopped mentioning Sweden now?

76407 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to IMoz, 2, #1071 of 1354 🔗

Haven’t they ever. Sweden proved them all wrong.

76427 ▶▶▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1072 of 1354 🔗

There’s been a week or so about a month ago when the media was trying hard to prove that more people were dying of COVID-19 in Sweeden using various statistical tricks, when that failed, they just shut up.

76532 ▶▶▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Nick Rose, #1073 of 1354 🔗

And Belarus is proving that even Sweden was and is being too strict and that SD is bogus, unless used for mind or dissent control, or torture.
Which is not surprising, considering that SD has never been evaluated scientifically, but is solely based upon the high school trial of a 14 year old girl, discovered by and tweaked for warfare purposes by two GW Bush admin hawks.

76404 ▶▶ guy153, replying to Ned of the Hills, 2, #1074 of 1354 🔗

It won’t happen in our generation whatever the truth. Science progresses one funeral at a time.

Ultimately the truth always wins but it can take a long time and it is bigger than the scientists themselves, who are often just as biased and unable to make good judgements as anyone else. On balance I don’t think this is necessarily a bad system. Out of all those people bloody-mindedly and irrationally chasing pet theories some will turn out to be right and make new discoveries.


76510 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to guy153, 1, #1075 of 1354 🔗

It happened in Russia and China, when the ‘reckoning’ was quite severe. This time, I would suggest, there is more justification for a similar response.

Naughty scientists, stop it now !

76540 ▶▶▶ Bruno, replying to guy153, #1076 of 1354 🔗

Are you by any chance an alumnnus of one of the Max Planck Institutes, strangely, I had been wondering that?

76698 ▶▶▶▶ guy153, replying to Bruno, #1077 of 1354 🔗

Nothing so distinguished 🙂 I’m just a bumbling amateur dabbler.

76366 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 2, #1078 of 1354 🔗

Meanwhile in Singapore:-

New arrivals to Singapore won’t necessarily have to quarantine at a government facility during the pandemic – some, including residents, will receive an electronic monitoring device that will alert authorities if they leave home.


76369 ▶▶ IanE, replying to IMoz, #1079 of 1354 🔗

Yikes – implants next!

76518 ▶▶▶ anon, replying to IanE, #1080 of 1354 🔗

I think that’s what this means:

“will receive an electronic monitoring device”

usual Orwellian newsspeak of course


76370 smileymiley, 1, #1081 of 1354 🔗
76374 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 14, #1082 of 1354 🔗

All cause weekly deaths below five year average – again. Six weeks running, now, but you know…. virus.

76396 ▶▶ JulieR, replying to Sam Vimes, 13, #1083 of 1354 🔗

But they don’t talk about deaths any more.
I heard on the radio this morning that opening schools will lead to a huge second wave. What are they talking about?!
All my friends and myself cannot wait for the schools to open.
Many primary schools actually opened for the last 2-3 weeks of the summer term and there were no spike or any increase.

76409 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JulieR, 3, #1084 of 1354 🔗

No, it’s ‘cases’ now, or ‘infections’, which is probably more correct, ironically, but sounds scarier. When more and more infections are seen to be mild or less, they will probably switch to talking about ‘the spread’. Or make something up yourself, it will probably come true!

76416 ▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1085 of 1354 🔗

Not sure if this is an important point or not, but is either ‘cases’ or ‘infections’ the correct word ? They don’t sound right to me, if the testee is healthy. ‘Positive tests’ perhaps ?

76423 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JohnB, 3, #1086 of 1354 🔗

They’re not in the business of ‘correct’ words. As long as it conveys “the relentless spread of this killer disease”, it will do.

76455 ▶▶▶▶▶ Fenlander, replying to JohnB, 2, #1087 of 1354 🔗

I think infection is the right word – not case, which suggests sickness – but I see where you’re coming from. When you consider how many different things we’re all infected with, that cause no symptoms and no sickness, it seems too emotive a word to be used for something that is, for the overwhelming majority of people, essentially harmless.

76486 ▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JulieR, 1, #1088 of 1354 🔗

For a full month in Holland, no ill effects

76405 Sarigan, replying to Sarigan, 26, #1089 of 1354 🔗

Quite like this slogan seen on Twitter:

If I can pretend your mask works, you can pretend I’m wearing one.

76429 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sarigan, 11, #1090 of 1354 🔗

Yeah, pretty succinct. That and “ If masks work, why did we lock down? And if they don’t, why do we have to wear them?

76708 ▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Sam Vimes, #1091 of 1354 🔗

Two corkers in one thread !!!!!

76453 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1092 of 1354 🔗

That’s a good one!

76466 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Sarigan, 2, #1093 of 1354 🔗

If I can pretend your mask works, you can pretend I’m wearing one.

That sounds like a great idea for a lapel badge!

76412 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1094 of 1354 🔗

How apt although the article itself shows the bias of Tim Adams in this question – “It is a huge challenge to confront, say, diehard conspiracy theorists, or anti-vaxxers with such scepticism. Have you had experience of conversion moments?”. If Carl Bergstrom is a “trenchant critic of the current response” then that would suggest the bullshit is coming from the side of the people leading the response.

Carl Bergstrom: ‘People are using data to bullshit’

76428 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1095 of 1354 🔗

That’s pretty comical stuff, right there. When exactly did the left fully transition to being the “dissent is evil”, “populism” smearing, “the establishment is all-wise and all-knowing” conformists that they now are?

76439 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Mark, 1, #1096 of 1354 🔗

because leftists have never been able to think for themselves and can’t bare those who can. This is why they are always wrong.

76442 ▶▶ Fenlander, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1097 of 1354 🔗

Entirely in-character for the Guardian. “Always accuse the other side of that which you are guilty of.”

76707 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Nobody2020, #1098 of 1354 🔗

Wow, the Guardian is just pure toilet paper now. Been on a rapid downhill trajectory since Snowden. Coincidence?

76652 ▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Alice, #1100 of 1354 🔗

It’s a good article but he goes nowhere near the real reasons. He does say that most MPs don’t have a clue what’s going on. Some of the commenters do, though! 🙂

76422 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 11, #1101 of 1354 🔗

Well what a surprise, the “researchers” saying there will be mass mayhem when schools re-open are from our old friends at University College London who gets lots of money from?

You guessed it.

The comments on the Daily mail page are good though, lots of slagging off and non-believers out in force.

76424 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1102 of 1354 🔗

Funny how all these prophets offer absolutely zero evidence for their premonitions

76430 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1103 of 1354 🔗

Yes they’re at it again with their modelling. Second wave could be 2.3 times worse than the first (the usual “reasonable worst case scenario”). Notice how the DM says it will definitely be worse:

Reopening schools in September WILL lead to a catastrophic second wave of coronavirus unless NHS test and trace drastically improves, major study claims

Second COVID-19 wave twice as big as the first without effective test, trace, isolating strategy, says new modelling study

76437 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Nobody2020, 10, #1104 of 1354 🔗

Whomever this Major Study is he’s full of shit.

76445 ▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Biker, 4, #1105 of 1354 🔗

I heard that he’s being considered for a knighthood.

76456 ▶▶▶▶▶ peter, replying to Nobody2020, 4, #1106 of 1354 🔗

They give Jimmy Savile one so wouldn’t be surprised.

76514 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to peter, 1, #1107 of 1354 🔗

it’s pretty much a who’s who of establishment crooks and peados

76483 ▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to Biker, 2, #1108 of 1354 🔗

I think he hangs around with General Cockup and Private Parts

76485 ▶▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to mjr, 1, #1109 of 1354 🔗

And Master Baites

76507 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1110 of 1354 🔗

Go on then … and Roger the cabin boy.

76598 ▶▶▶▶▶▶▶ mjr, replying to JohnB, #1111 of 1354 🔗

lets get the whole lot ..
and Seaman Staines

76582 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Nobody2020, #1112 of 1354 🔗

And so on we go on our merry way. . . . .

It seems like, apart from the usual suspects e.g. Whitty, one of the sources of this Fail piece is a report by UCL ‘experts’. UCL has close links with ICL and they have funding from Google.

Also, look at this:


and this (guess who, albeit in 2017?):


76425 stefarm, 6, #1114 of 1354 🔗

Fucking hell, this will make you laugh. On my departmental interweb shite, sorry site.

‘this government is clear on its commitment to tackle all forms of inequality and ensure Scotland is an inclusive country, regardless of disability, race or ethnicity’

Assuming you wear a mask of course and do as I say!

76441 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1115 of 1354 🔗

Number of children in the USA who have died from novel-coronavirus: 86 Number of children in the USA who die every year from the seasonal flu: ~500 Number of children US 74 million Never close schools for seasonal flu. You might close schools in a flu pandemic but in that case the deaths of flu in children would be much higher.
A joint report from the American Academy of Paediatrics and the Children’s Hospital Association
Data from almost all US states cases, hospitalizations, deaths in children of Covid-19

76462 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 1, #1116 of 1354 🔗

 COVID-19 Transmission and Children: The Child Is Not to Blame

76443 Templeton, replying to Templeton, 15, #1117 of 1354 🔗

Went shopping yesterday with the missus and our 9 yr old nephew (all unmasked). On entry, a few big name brands and the shopping centre itself informed people to wear a mask. Said “no thanks” each time and that was it. Not a dickiebird after.

Only issue was a confused chap in the traditional sweet shop saying I needed to be “exempt” not to use the hand sanitizer (I hate that stuff)
Politely informed him thats to do with masks, not hand gel.
Needless to say I left without making purchase (my waistline thanked me anyway), but almost felt bad for the guy. Really not his fault he was confused by all this. And at least he actually brought up exemption.

Some people maskless or at least wearing under chin. A few stares too, but think if you feel strong enough to do it, get out and show your face.. figuratively and literally.

76451 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Templeton, 15, #1118 of 1354 🔗

if you feel strong enough to do it, get out and show your face.. figuratively and literally .”

Exactly. Every unmasked face is a blow against the normalisation of this abomination.

76459 ▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mark, 9, #1119 of 1354 🔗

And don’t forget to smile and walk with your held held high.

76468 ▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, 5, #1120 of 1354 🔗

Oh yes, they hate that 😉

76544 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to kh1485, 5, #1121 of 1354 🔗

Someone glared at me at the National Gallery for being unmuzzled then looked away when I gave her a smile then a manic grin.

76554 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ kh1485, replying to Bart Simpson, #1122 of 1354 🔗

I did that yesterday with my ‘Randle McMurphy’ t shirt on … 😉

76482 ▶▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Bart Simpson, 4, #1123 of 1354 🔗

Always smile 😀 they don’t like it.

76562 ▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to smileymiley, #1124 of 1354 🔗

Indeed. That said I’ve sensed positivity from muzzled members of staff who see my unmuzzled smiling face 🙂

76473 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Templeton, 2, #1125 of 1354 🔗

Is Face Streaking a thing ?

76502 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to karenovirus, 2, #1126 of 1354 🔗

If you’re feeling brave, karen, try a google search on mask-related sexual activities … 🙂

76509 ▶▶▶▶ karenovirus, replying to JohnB, #1127 of 1354 🔗

Ta, John, think I’ll pass.

76655 ▶▶▶ Templeton, replying to karenovirus, -1, #1128 of 1354 🔗

Indeed…get your bits out! =]

76450 AN other lockdown sceptic, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, 3, #1129 of 1354 🔗

Face masks make you stupid Why face masks are a form of dehumanisation


76499 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to AN other lockdown sceptic, #1130 of 1354 🔗

Haven’t read it, busy, but 10/10 for the title alone. 🙂

76454 Gossamer, replying to Gossamer, 3, #1131 of 1354 🔗

This is not philanthropy. Philanthropy would be providing the world with clean water and sanitation. But not this.

At least (as his other videos have demonstrated), Bill Gates is such a poor public speaker that he can’t even verbally whitewash or dissemble. He just comes out with it.


76470 ▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Gossamer, 2, #1132 of 1354 🔗

The new word is ‘Philanthrocapitalism’. Gates is a Philanthrocapitalist and a particular evil one at that.

76457 IMoz, replying to IMoz, 3, #1133 of 1354 🔗

So, according to the ONS, deaths for week 30 of 2020:-

Total: 8891 (up from 8823 prev. week, down from 5 year average of 9052)
‘flu/pneumonia: 958 (up from 879 prev. week)
COVID-19: 217 (down from 295 prev. week)

‘flu/pneumonia:COVID-19 ratio is over 4.14:1 (guessing masks aren’t stopping regular ‘flu/pneumonia?), COVID-19 deaths as a proportion of all-cause deaths: 2.44%, ‘flu/pneumonia: 10.77% (guess we’re going to be self-isolating due to ‘flu soon!)


76711 ▶▶ Steve Martindale, replying to IMoz, #1134 of 1354 🔗

This is the 6th week running that total registered deaths are below the 5 year average. How on earth can you say you are in the middle of a serious pandemic when fewer people than average have died over the last 6 weeks?
It is more like Hapless Hancock & Witless Whitty are suffering from a serious bout of headless chicken disease, rushing around and wringing their hands over nothing and making us all suffer

76458 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 5, #1135 of 1354 🔗

Got this link off the UN website and set-up on July 22nd 2020:


The COVID-19 Law Lab initiative gathers and shares legal documents from over 190 countries across the world to help states establish and implement strong legal frameworks to manage the pandemic.”

It goes on about vaccines (no surprise), advancing and adhering to human rights (yeah right) and to enforce actions (yep, that’s the plan then).

So countries can see what others are doing and follow suit I guess is the ultimate plan so everywhere has the same laws.

It’s done in partnership among others of the WHO and the O’Neill Institute and Centre for Innovation in Global Health who gets money from the O’Neill Institute plus others.

From their website:

“The Center for Innovation in Global Health Policy and Law is partnering with The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Cooper/Smith, and Georgetown’s Ethics Lab”.

So same old same old then but a different route mentioning ethics etc and I guess “doing it for you own good”.

76685 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Awkward Git, #1136 of 1354 🔗

There’s your Global Governance via the back door. Once they’ve got that in place it’ll just grow and grow. It’s for our own good after all 😉

76463 Steve Martindale, replying to Steve Martindale, 10, #1137 of 1354 🔗

ONS Death stats just out & for the 6th week running total registered deaths below the 5 year average. Total 8891 against average 9052. These are the stats that really matter & they do not justify recent lockdown actions.

76469 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Steve Martindale, 1, #1138 of 1354 🔗

Started in London, Week Twenty, which week it now ?
(Just saw IMoz below, Week 30)

76684 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Steve Martindale, #1139 of 1354 🔗

But, but, but, but New Cases !!!!!! Reeeeeee !!!!!!

76464 Awkward Git, 3, #1140 of 1354 🔗

Found an actual Government Department that works.

It’s the MHRA Yellow Card Scheme Defective Medicines Report Centre, Inspection Enforcement & Standards Division.

Wife is having pretty serious side-effects from a medicine she has been on for a while but the manufacturer has changed.

Reported it on Friday, got an e-mail on Saturday (surprised me) from them asking more information.

Today they wanted more information and 5 minutes ago official request gone to manufacturer to investigate.

Wonder if they will act as quick once all the side-effects of the vaccine will start appearing.


76472 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1142 of 1354 🔗


76480 ▶▶ HaylingDave, replying to Awkward Git, 2, #1143 of 1354 🔗

Yes, I’ve heard this before as well – I think the Texas governor (or health “professional”) suggested it as well.

But there’s friction between Birx and Trump, so not sure how that would play out:


US President Donald Trump has labelled the co-ordinator of his coronavirus taskforce “pathetic”.

The president appeared to be lashing out at Dr Deborah Birx for her dire warning about the spread of COVID-19 around the country.”

76592 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to HaylingDave, 1, #1144 of 1354 🔗

If there was real friction, Trump should get rid of Birx and why not Fauci as well?

76498 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Awkward Git, #1145 of 1354 🔗

Guaranteed some Yanks have lists …

76474 mhcp, replying to mhcp, 6, #1146 of 1354 🔗

For Toby

The bodycam footage of George Floyds arrest was released and it’s clear he was tweaking out having trouble breathing before any cop intervention. He was looking all of what he was – a junkie as it appears.

So all those BLM riots that were already off the mark are glaringly off the mark. Fake news all the way.

Like Covid.

Do you think old Sir Kneelalot will say anything?

76489 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to mhcp, 1, #1147 of 1354 🔗

Here it is on youtube:

EXCLUSIVE: Police bodycam footage shows moment-by-moment arrest of George Floyd for the first time – YouTube

It was leaked by the Daily mail and reported on RT.com (I know, not 2 of the best sources at times).

76501 ▶▶▶ Darryl, replying to Awkward Git, 1, #1148 of 1354 🔗

That is absolutely bizarre to ‘leak’ footage at this stage. You really have to wonder what games these people are playing – is this released now because protests are fizzling out? and need a boost?

76658 ▶▶▶▶ anon, replying to Darryl, #1149 of 1354 🔗

see my comment just now Daryl – search for ‘news benders’ if you can’t find the comment

76588 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Awkward Git, #1150 of 1354 🔗

Do not smear RT like that.

76494 ▶▶ Darryl, replying to mhcp, 4, #1151 of 1354 🔗

Can’t imagine many journalist being brave enough to speak out on this, it would be MSM career suicide.

Agree, the whole BLM riots and endless protests since look incredible preplanned and orchestrated. Political gesturing and rituals before sports events have a cult like look about them. BLM seems to have taken over as the main religion of America. There are some very clever and evil puppet masters pulling the strings at the moment.

76587 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Darryl, -1, #1152 of 1354 🔗

Off topic.

76596 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Rowan, 3, #1153 of 1354 🔗

Not off-topic really, when lockdown and social distancing rules are carefully *not* enforced for particular groups and causes…

76521 ▶▶ mjr, replying to mhcp, 3, #1154 of 1354 🔗

He is well out of his head. Looked like a drug induced psychotic episode. Also, he was a big chap and resisting . The police were handling him, in quite a reasonable, polite and cautious way given the circumstances, Certainly he was stressing out and hyperventilating. Obviously the video cuts out at the important point where full restraint has needed to be applied, so we dont know from then on what happened, but certainly the impression that the BLM narrative tried to portray that this was a quiet law abiding gentleman going about his daily business who without justification was attacked and murdered by police just because of his colour has been shattered just a little

76585 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to mhcp, #1155 of 1354 🔗

So the treatment for breathing difficulties is now a knee on the neck?

76647 ▶▶▶ Mark, replying to Rowan, 1, #1156 of 1354 🔗

No, but a knee on the neck is (was, anyway) a common control method used by police and others.

In this case, it had tragic consequences for this particular big, hardened thug who was obviously drugged and irrational at the time. Then an intentionally false misrepresentation of the event and of the individual involved (BBC version – “gentle giant”, reality – convicted armed robber) was used as hate propaganda to whip up support for dishonest and radical political causes around the world.

But clearly none of that bothers you. Instead you seem to get upset by someone pointing out the falsehoods underlying the propaganda.

76687 ▶▶▶ mhcp, replying to Rowan, #1157 of 1354 🔗

As Mark said. The issue is that the case against the cops is much much weaker than assumed, if there’s a case at all. Because now it gets buried in specifics and nuances rather than “police brutality”. As for the knee on the neck, was it actually on the windpipe? There’s that as well

The whole eruption of outrage can only be seen if a simplistic narrative is maintained. Which requires broad brush assumptions and lacks precision in the data.

Precisely the same as with the reaction to Covid.

76705 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to mhcp, #1158 of 1354 🔗

My expectation is he will be convicted anyway, for reasons of political necessity.

As such he will morally be every bit as much a wrongfully imprisoned political prisoner as anyone in any of the routinely demonised “repressive” regimes.

76475 Lockdown Truth, replying to Lockdown Truth, 8, #1159 of 1354 🔗

I got beeped at by a guy on a roundabout yesterday possibly for not being fully in my lane but nothing serious. I looked at him. On his own in the car – wearing a mask!

76504 ▶▶ karenovirus, replying to Lockdown Truth, 3, #1160 of 1354 🔗

I had a guy pull out from stationary parked, had to swerve to avoid his careless driving and he was wearing a mask too so worried was he for his safety.

76477 Barney McGrew, replying to Barney McGrew, 19, #1161 of 1354 🔗

I hate the fact that as a lockdown sceptic I am always on the defensive. All the solid evidence is on our side (the latest being Professor Heneghan’s demolition of the Northern “surge”), yet we are always in the position of opposing the orthodoxy. You can quote the professor until you are blue in the face, but your Oxbridge-educated opponent will say “That’s all very well, but remember the scenes in the Italian hospitals.” And then you have to start chipping away at that ‘fact’ with what sounds like speculation – you will be familiar with the arguments.

But if you think about it, it is like belief in UFOs – where the Covid believers are the UFO fanatics. Their argument is the equivalent of “How do explain the 26 people who all saw a flying saucer land in that field?”. And you are the calm and sober scientist saying “There is a logical explanation. It was probably the weather balloon that got lost two days earlier”.

Somehow, the relationship between the calm, rational explanation versus the lurid sensational headline has become inverted. They see us as the crazy “conspiracy theorists”, but we, in fact, are the calm, rational ones; the ones who gravitate towards the ‘rational explanation for everything’. So faced with a BBC headline penned by some unknown journalist in response to a government press release versus Carl Heneghan’s analysis, I’ll go for Heneghan every time. But they make me feel as though I’m irrational for doing it.

76497 ▶▶ JohnB, replying to Barney McGrew, #1162 of 1354 🔗

Weather balloons ? Pfaff !

76513 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Barney McGrew, 6, #1163 of 1354 🔗

This so-called “orthodoxy” is very recent. More or less at no time in history has the response to a virus of this nature been to shut down society indefinitely and wear masks. The burden of proof is on those who are advocating unprecedented measures for a virus whose effect is anything but unprecedented. To be brutal, they simply cannot point to enough dead people to make their case stick.

76579 ▶▶▶ Rowan, replying to Julian, #1164 of 1354 🔗

The new “orthodoxy” dates back to at least 2010, when it was spelt out in the Rockefeller lockstep document scenarios.

76519 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Barney McGrew, 3, #1165 of 1354 🔗

You cannot reason with fanatics, least of all when they are part of crowd of equal-minded.
See Fascism, Brexit, Corona.

76572 ▶▶ Rowan, replying to Barney McGrew, 1, #1166 of 1354 🔗

I actually saw a UFO of some kind, just once and it was nearly fifty years ago. The memory is very clear, so yes I am a UFO believer, of sorts. However, I don’t care whether or not, you believe in my UFO experience. This point distinguishes me from the brain dead proselytising Covid official narrative true believers.

A UFO is of course, simply something that is not readily explainable, in terms of known technology or geophysical phenomena. It doesn’t need to be little green men leaping out of flying saucers on the White House lawn. I wonder whether you falling into your own (BBC type) trap here?

76606 ▶▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Rowan, #1167 of 1354 🔗

Yes, I should have said “flying saucers”, not “UFOs” which, as you say is simply a neutral term.

76490 ▶▶ nottingham69, replying to Back To Normal, 1, #1169 of 1354 🔗

Thanks for those,signed both.

76613 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Back To Normal, #1170 of 1354 🔗

Anyone had a Civid charge added to their bill in a restaurant or pub? https://twitter.com/Chelz65/status/1290354918969282560

76633 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Carrie, 1, #1171 of 1354 🔗

My barber was more expensive. But he and his colleague both had BARBICIDE® covid-19 certificates on the wall. I felt a lot safer …

76678 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Back To Normal, #1172 of 1354 🔗

I think the Parliament petitions have been rigged mate. Some recent ones where you’d expect take off have grown at a ridiculous snails pace, eg


76479 swedenborg, 11, #1173 of 1354 🔗

And in Peru, where a military controlled lockdown was put in place on March 15th only 13 days after it’s first case was declared AND had mandatory mask use in place from April 7th outdoors, STILL managed to see their cases climb and peak nearly 3 months later?

76487 StevieH, replying to StevieH, 38, #1174 of 1354 🔗

Comment seen on Con Home site:

 I find the level of support that the PM apparently retains is truly unbelievable. I don’t know anyone who thinks he’s done a good job. A quick review:
* Less than 1,500 people without any underlying major medical conditions have died from a virus.
* Around 45,000 people have died with the virus in their system but no-one knows how much the effects of the virus actually prompted their death and included in this total are any people who had the virus and recovered but then died of another cause. In essence, the death statistics relating to the virus are very suspect to say the least.
* Entirely by coincidence hardly anyone seems to have died of influenza recently; strange that.
* Around 55,000 people die from a ‘normal’, bad flu season and 85,000 people died in 1968 from a very bad flu season.
* Notwithstanding the above figures, the freedom of individuals in the UK has been reduced in a draconian fashion, courtesy of lockdowns, social distancing, etc., etc. and an estimated 200,000 people will die as a result of missed cancer and other treatments whilst the NHS has been obsessed with the virus, not to mention suicides and the general state of depression and stress in existence throughout the country courtesy of ‘project virus fear’.
* Just by the way, said lockdowns and related measures have crippled the UK’s economy and plunged our country into a quagmire of debt for future generations to pay off.
* The lockdowns and other measures were meant to shield the most vulnerable people in our society, so to help this along, some fool or psychopath in either the NHS or government thought it a good idea to send infected people to nursing homes, which had the result of killing off an awful lot of very vulnerable people. Genius.
* Now that the death rate from the virus is thankfully down to very few, the government thinks this must be the right time to muzzle everyone in the country, when many, many experts contend that at best face masks are completely ineffective and at worst they can help to cause people to be infected with the virus or diminish their immune system so they catch something else.
* The Government next ignore an apparently successful treatment regime using hydroxychloroquine + Zinc + Antibiotic and instead spend a fortune of tax-payers money upon vaccines that alter the recipient’s DNA to work, have not been tested to the usual rigour and expect everyone in in the country to rush out and get a jab as soon as the wonder cure is available, without explaining why anyone would want to risk taking such a dodgy vaccine to possibly prevent a disease that has a survival rate in excess of 99%.
* Next in the pipeline we apparently have so called ‘health passports’ to make sure that all citizens can evidence that they’ve had the potentially dangerous jab they they neither want nor need and if they cannot so evidence, they will be denied access to services , transport and goodness knows what else.
Unbelievable, completely unbelievable. This is either all part of a very sinister plot shared with other countries world wide (if one believes a million voices on the internet) or surely the most appalling governmental incompetence this country has ever witnessed.

76493 ▶▶ Basics, replying to StevieH, 16, #1175 of 1354 🔗

That is a very fine summary and it’s not incompetence.

76520 ▶▶▶ KBuchanan, replying to Basics, 9, #1176 of 1354 🔗

It cannot possibly be incompetence – NO ONE is that incompetent.

76500 ▶▶ Chris Hume, replying to StevieH, 9, #1177 of 1354 🔗

Brilliant. Spot on. I always err towards cock-up rather than conspiracy but even I am beginning to wonder.

76516 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to Chris Hume, 3, #1178 of 1354 🔗

The only way they can still be judged to act in good faith and with a positive intent is, that they know something they can’t tell us yet, and that they try to prepare us for, or don’t want to upset us too much until that event occurs.
The movie ‘Deep Impact’ provides an example for that.

There is simply no other rational explanation for most governments actions anymore.

76535 ▶▶▶▶ Julian, replying to Jay Berger, 6, #1179 of 1354 🔗

Another possible rational explanation is that they want to keep this nonsense going to cover up their initial mistakes, or because they like the power and the attention it gives them. These are all quite common human weaknesses and character flaws, to which politicians are subject as we all are, but in more normal times in a “free” society the opposition, the media, the judiciary and public opinion prevent them from the worst excesses. Saving lives gives them perfect cover.

76639 ▶▶▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to Julian, 1, #1180 of 1354 🔗

I’m still leaning towards incompetence, or more precisely gross incompetence followed by psychopathic arse covering. If they weren’t all psychopaths then I would have to lean towards conspiracy. These are evil, relentlessly self-serving, psycho scumbags of the highest order, who do not care about their country, their population or the planet.

76566 ▶▶▶ Jonathan Palmer, replying to Chris Hume, 10, #1181 of 1354 🔗

The illusion of incompetence is part of the plan.Its a trick to disorientate us.
If you look and listen carefully they have told us everything we need to know.
Whitty told us it wasn’t a serious disease.
They told us masks are next to useless
They told us the end game is a vaccine when Boris unveiled the Nando’s plan.
Also all the other western governments are acting in the same way.
This is not about a virus and never has been,as to the governments true intentions who knows but I doubt that they are benign.

76576 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1182 of 1354 🔗

Maybe Boris was ‘chosen’ for us, because he has always played the ‘buffoon’, so they thought we would just *not notice*, or simply brush off the ‘incompetence’ and just put it down to Boris’ well-known eccentric ‘act’…?

76621 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1183 of 1354 🔗

I agree. They have spelt it out clearly and truthfully, then systematically buried the truth in a load of contradictory nonsensical “rules.”

Wankock used to speak coherently but is fast mastering Adolf de Piffle’s ability to waffle and bluster. The slimy Gove has always been an absolute master of long-winded erudition that manages to say absolutely nothing meaningful.

76965 ▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Jonathan Palmer, 1, #1184 of 1354 🔗

Did anyone on here access the government commissioned report that was published last summer, coincidentally after numerous governments around the world had met to discuss the so far unsolved problems of lack of affordability of

  • caring for ageing populations,
  • providing health care services to those without private medical insurance, maintaining social welfare services and funding,


  • state pensions?

I found it by accident when doing some research on proposals to change the UK state pension age to 75. It was quite lengthy, detailed and with some highly alarming and drastic solutions proposed, as well as moderately drastic ones, and more reasonable, palatable ones. Interestingly the most alarming and drastic recommendations came first under each heading. Have already seen some of them beginning to creep in under this pandemic, but the original proposal was to look at the options over the next 2 years.

The report was too large to download, and i only skimmed through chunks of it so I made a note of the link so I could revisit and read chapters one at a time. But it disappeared around January and the link now says page not found. I know some others saw it because it was mentioned by a few via FB. But I have not mentioned it to anyone other than a few close friends because even they said I sounded like a conspiracy theorist, so goodness knows what the reactions of other folk would be.

76630 ▶▶ Cbird, replying to StevieH, 2, #1185 of 1354 🔗

Outstanding. Thank you

76653 ▶▶ stefarm, replying to StevieH, 4, #1186 of 1354 🔗

How to ruin a country and its citizens in a nutshell

76491 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 6, #1187 of 1354 🔗

Longer Lockdowns Associated with Much Worse Economic Outcomes
This is obvious .But sometimes you must document and record it and comparing the different states with different lockdown in US is done in this article which might have some interest

76654 ▶▶ GLT, replying to swedenborg, #1188 of 1354 🔗

No, it’s good. Thanks.

76495 Moomin, replying to Moomin, 17, #1189 of 1354 🔗

I reckon there are only a few ways for covipanic to stop:
1 – the government admits it’s been misleading and lying to everyone;
2 – some high profile celebs get on board and start speaking out;
3 – civil disobedience/unrest;
4 – a scandal of some sort that exposes the lies;
5 – a well-respected mainstream journalist suddenly sees the light.

I’m getting increasingly worried. Too many people are naive about it all, although everyone I’ve spoken to since Friday has been a skeptic. I’m in the North West and I’m affected by the non-sensical local lockdown, I’m worried if it is left to local councils they’ll just keep it going indefinitely. People I know think it’ll be over soon but I just can’t see it, they’ll be introducing masks for schools next, and even outdoors too the rate they’re carrying on. I seriously think that Boris Johnson isn’t in his right mind.

76508 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Moomin, 5, #1190 of 1354 🔗

I don’t think (1) is going to happen, ever. But the others, yes, over time I think we’ll see more of it. And (6) neutrals and those badly affected by the nonsense will gradually tire of this and start to question things more. It will take time.

76548 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Julian, 3, #1191 of 1354 🔗

Good point. I know 1 will never happen, although the Norwegian PM did admit to being fear driven. Bart, I’m not sure about number 3 happening the way people have just put up with things so far.

76602 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Julian, 1, #1192 of 1354 🔗

I’m not sure how much time we’ve got.

76537 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Moomin, 6, #1193 of 1354 🔗

I think it will be more number 3 – the mandatory muzzling has seen a massive decline in High Street footfall to the point that even supermarkets are now being affected. It will get worse come 8 August when even museums, art galleries and cinemas will very likely go in the way of shops while libraries, concert halls, leisure facilities might not bother reopening. This will mean more redundancies and businesses and institutions going bust.

Then come October when the furlough scheme ends and more people join the ranks of the unemployed they might decide that having lost everything, they have nothing to lose by rioting and engaging in massive civil disobedience.

76574 ▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1194 of 1354 🔗

I was thinking maybe number 3 or 4,but after seeing the sheer overwhelming compliance by the zombies in my town this morning I think civil unrest seems unlikely.What really stood out to me today was the slavish compliance with masks etc across all age groups and the look of total defeat in most peoples eyes.

76584 ▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 4, #1195 of 1354 🔗

Maybe not now but when this lot gets hit in the pocket and stomach or if they’re retired find their pensions raided then they might just wake up and realise that they’ve been had.

76591 ▶▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1196 of 1354 🔗

Not many people know that there was law passed some time ago that allows the government access to take money from your bank account if you do not pay a fine… What’s to stop them dipping into people’s bank accounts for a ‘Covid’ fund of some kind?

76604 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Carrie, #1197 of 1354 🔗

That’s rather sinister. However the CPS has invalidated any previous fines and have ordered those fined for violating antisocial distancing guidelines be refunded if they’ve paid.

76701 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Carrie, 1, #1198 of 1354 🔗

Do you have a source for that, Carrie?

76929 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Carrie, #1199 of 1354 🔗

Bl***y h**l – where did you hear that? What law was it, do you know? Didn’t Greece do that a couple of years ago and raid people’s savings and pension pots to help pay off the huge national debt? I know HMRC has the power to access your bank account if you don’t pay your tax bill, but if what you say is true, that is a massive cause for alarm. Is it why the government is trying to phase out cash do you think, as well as making sure they close the back door on the cash in hand job black market?

76597 ▶▶▶▶▶ Paul, replying to Bart Simpson, 2, #1200 of 1354 🔗

I agree Bart,I’m hoping that will finally wake most people up but an extension of the furlough scheme at the last minute wouldn’t surprise me either.

76607 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Paul, 1, #1201 of 1354 🔗

Sunak has ruled that out but yeah that wouldn’t surprise me either.

That said I seriously doubt it will have much effect. More businesses will simply go bust come what may and even those who manage to hang on won’t be able to afford the contributory payments.

76923 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Bart Simpson, #1202 of 1354 🔗

Bart Simpson – I simply cannot understand why Lockdown Sceptics are the only apparently well-informed, rational and non-brainwashed people who have worked out where this is all going from October. With a crashed economy, no job and none left to apply for, no money to pay rents or mortgages, pay bills or even buy food, what on earth do all the brainwashed folk think is going to happen to them and why is avoiding one little flu like bug worth all this universal pain and distress?

76542 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Moomin, 3, #1203 of 1354 🔗

The hope for solution is a vaccine of course. There’s bound to be ‘fraying at the edges’ afore one is found. People might start “voting with their feet” before then and they’ll just be a general collapse. Sorry to mix my metaphors – and when I say “feet” maybe I should say “faces”.

76546 ▶▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1204 of 1354 🔗


76568 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Ned of the Hills, #1205 of 1354 🔗

This article, if disseminated widely enough, might increase the number of people thinking twice about agreeing to a hastily produced vaccine: https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/08/04/side-effects-of-fast-tracked-vaccine.aspx?cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art1ReadMore&cid=20200804Z1&mid=DM614275&rid=932407084

76599 ▶▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Carrie, #1206 of 1354 🔗

WTF does Gates know about vaccines? He never found any for his software. In fact didn’t care.

76935 ▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Bella, #1207 of 1354 🔗

I’ve read that Gates has a personal agenda – he is very vocal about his belief that the planet’s population needs to be drastically reduced and soon. Didn’t he fund the development of a vaccine before which was only given to young females of fertile years which was later found to have an ingredient that effectively made them sterile? Or was that just fake conspiracy theory misinformation, that should not be given any credence at all? (I’m still suspicious of his and Fauci’s financial connections).

76669 ▶▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Carrie, 2, #1208 of 1354 🔗

I’ve tried guiding believers to NHS England’s Daily Covid-19 deaths website to look at the numbers. So far no takers. They can ‘hear’ me but they’re not listening, you can tell by their reactions.
When unemployment takes off and the furlough ends it’s going to start focusing peoples minds but what kind of Police state will be trapped in by then I wonder?

76937 ▶▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to NonCompliant, #1209 of 1354 🔗

Same here

76595 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Ned of the Hills, 1, #1210 of 1354 🔗

There is no ‘hope’ or ‘solution’ in a vaccine, unless you’re talking about the Final Solution of course. Oh wait, it couldn’t happen here.

76618 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Bella, #1211 of 1354 🔗

Seen the video on mercola.com where Gates fumbles while trying to minimise the side effects that everyone in the vaccine trials (of the Moderna Covid vaccine) suffered? The stats (on Mercola’s site) are worrying, to say the least..

76589 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Moomin, 2, #1212 of 1354 🔗
  1. No. Because their agenda is to lie and mislead. Liars don’t admit to lying
  2. They’ve too much to lose. They see the opinion polls too.
  3. Would be helpful but nowhere near a tipping point
  4. Plenty of those. Take your pick on YouTube. Depends on individual credulity but not make a difference so far
  5. Peter Hitchens is respected, has credentials, a history as a political journalist in different countries and a high profile, but it seems he’s spitting in the wind

3 would be the best bet but as everyone knows on here you can’t talk to the bedwetters and we’re in a minority. Even when face masks become mandatory everywhere there will still be compliance and us who claim exemptions will be treated like Jews in Germany in the 1930s. That’s how dark it is becoming. Johnson is very much in his right mind (the one he demonstrated in 2019 when he prorogued parliament and lied to the Queen.) Be careful what you wish (vote) for.

76612 ▶▶ DRW, replying to Moomin, #1213 of 1354 🔗

I sometimes wonder if “the tide is turning” is our equivalent of the bedwetters’ “two weeks!”. Something we all want to happen and get excited about if apparent but still hasn’t come to anything yet. I’m pinned my hopes on furlough ending (tapering off this month) but it might take something unexpected and/or big to wake up the sheeple (vaccine going wrong?)

76665 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Moomin, 1, #1214 of 1354 🔗

2 & 3 is our only chance of escape and I think 2 will follow 3, not the other way around. We need to start getting organised and fast.
1 will never happen and 4 is impossible with the media being all-in with 24/7 fear porn since day one. They have as much face to lose as the Govt at this point.
5 happens occasionally, Telegraph has a few voices of reason, but I doubt any paper will stick it’s neck out

76496 Cheezilla, replying to Cheezilla, 15, #1215 of 1354 🔗

Tony Blair told Times Radio:

On some estimates 70% of people with the disease are asymptomatic , so if you are only testing people with symptoms you are losing the majority of people from your testing strategy ….

Hmmmm. And what strategy would that be then?
Did anyone point out that an asymptomatic disease is not a disease at all?

Bring back Lord Denning!

76505 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1216 of 1354 🔗

You would think that given many eminent and powerful organisations would have us believe that the world faces a grave threat, they’d have done some studies that showed strong evidence one way or the other regarding asymptomatic transmission, given that, as Professor Blair points out, so many are asymptomatic. I haven’t seen much evidence from these bodies that they actually want to find out more about the virus so that they can modify their response to be more appropriate.

76534 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Julian, 3, #1217 of 1354 🔗

I’ve seen two studies on “asymptomatic” transmission, all based on sample size of 1 (yes, -o-n-e-) and if you actually read the “studies” they’re so full of holes that you can’t even use them to stop paccheri from falling through into a sink!

76512 ▶▶ Chicot, replying to Cheezilla, 4, #1218 of 1354 🔗

Yeah, great idea. Let’s test everyone and then the higher number of “cases” can be used as justification for more strict lockdowns.

76614 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Chicot, #1219 of 1354 🔗

These ‘get tested’ ads are an outrage! https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1290369345462231040

76559 ▶▶ Fenlander, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1220 of 1354 🔗

I understand they’ve now replaced the dictionary definition of evil with a photo of Tony Blair.

76506 Graham, replying to Graham, 19, #1221 of 1354 🔗

There’s a new article in the Spectator entitled ‘Wearing a mask is good manners’. ( https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/wearing-a-mask-is-good-manners ). I can’t seem to comment on it there. I wanted to say that he (she?) will have to put up with some bad manners from those of us who won’t submit to tyranny. It may seem a trivial thing, but it’s not actually trivial to be forced into public humiliation and unwanted conformity on completely false and irrational grounds.

76515 ▶▶ Ned of the Hills, replying to Graham, #1222 of 1354 🔗

I think wearing a mask when you are speaking to someone is bad manners – but, of course if you saving their life by doing so that’s more than good manners!

76517 ▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to Graham, 10, #1223 of 1354 🔗

Sneezing/coughing into somebody’s face is bad manners. Sneezing/coughing into a handkerchief is good manners.

Holding the handkerchief to your face while you’re talking to somebody when you’re not sneezing/coughing is just rude.

76523 ▶▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1224 of 1354 🔗

The thing is, people do actually pull their masks down to sneeze and caugh!

76580 ▶▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to IMoz, 1, #1225 of 1354 🔗

When I was in spain I saw a bloke walking along sneeze into his mask, hillarious!

76583 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to IMoz, #1226 of 1354 🔗

It would be grim to sneeze into a mask wouldn’t it. Ugh

76545 ▶▶ Margaret, replying to Graham, 22, #1227 of 1354 🔗

I have a mission for you fellow sceptics and anti face nappy champions.

This morning, after doing some naked shopping (you know what I mean) in two local shops, no questions asked, pleasant chat with the staff etc, OH and I ventured into the food hall of the out-of-town M and S. No problem going in-the faceless ones were in full force, except for the staff. OH insisted on wearing his lanyard but I refused to do so as I believe that it is akin to having to wear a star by Jews in Germany during the war.

Going down the first aisle, a clinically obese man made a comment to his equally obese wife about us not wearing face masks. Because we are free they really resent us don’t they? I turned and informed him loudly that I was exempt. Afraid OH was a bit less polite so the man lumbered off.

I immediately reported this incident to the floor manager and pointed out that although he could not control his clientele, it was his company’s job to inform shoppers on a regular basis that there were lots of people who had a reasonable excuse for not wearing a mask and that these people should never be challenged. I also pointed out that someone, somewhere could be landed with a hefty fine in contravention of the Equality Act 2010 if this harassment was a regular occurrence. I think he got my point.

This is what we need to do therefore. Each shop we enter, where we are asked about masks or each incident of harassment to which we are subject, we need to go to the management and registered our displeasure. Ask them why they haven’t made it clear that lots of people are exempt and why they are discriminating against us. Ask them where are their posters explaining this. Hopefully they will soon get the message.

Courage mes braves!

76551 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Margaret, 3, #1228 of 1354 🔗

I like “less polite”. 🙂

76552 ▶▶▶ smileymiley, replying to Margaret, 3, #1229 of 1354 🔗

Well done Margaret. 👍

76578 ▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Margaret, 5, #1230 of 1354 🔗

Perfect. Gonna try it in my local coop soon. I’ve been putting it off and not been in a shop since the mandate came out. But that is the lesser of my angers as I am in the northern lockdown zone. If you look at the government’s guidelines for this area it is actually illegal to have a guest in your home or garden! Illegal!! Most people in this area I know are ignoring the new restrictions but I have been wondering about people like myself, retired so no job to lose, breaking the law and going to court to make a point. My mother in law who is 79 says she will do the same.

76603 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to wendy, #1231 of 1354 🔗

Not illegal yet. Probably by weekend. Ignore either way.

76593 ▶▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Margaret, 1, #1232 of 1354 🔗

I had also wondered about sending store managers the first few pages of the laworfiction legal pack which talks about the need to protect staff under the Equality Act (2010).


76663 ▶▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Ozzie, #1233 of 1354 🔗

Ozzie, don’t wonder- just do it!

76905 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Margaret, #1234 of 1354 🔗

Good for you and love the bit about going out ‘naked’!

76550 ▶▶ Bella Donna, replying to Graham, 8, #1235 of 1354 🔗

No its not good manners to wear a mask, in fact it’s the very opposite.

No masks and No social distancing.

76557 ▶▶▶ Bella, replying to Bella Donna, 6, #1236 of 1354 🔗

If you’d worn a bandana over your face going into a shop a year ago you would have frightened someone and the police may have been called. Now it’s good manners. Very convenient how mores change. I agree, it’s bad manners because it’s sinister – like it’s bad manners to scowl at someone for no reason

76555 ▶▶ Bella, replying to Graham, 4, #1237 of 1354 🔗

Fortunately there’s enough comments saying the article is daft and I’ve upvoted on all of them. (You have to join Disqus to comment which is a pain in the arse)

76569 ▶▶ wendy, replying to Graham, 5, #1238 of 1354 🔗

To my mind the mask mandate is problematic for many reasons:
1 no need where very low incidence of virus
2 no evidence they work – more they don’t and dirty left in pockets
3 unlikely passing someone in a shop will risk infection – 15 minutes
face to face needed. Most transmission is personal and domestic.
4 supposed to be about preventing asymptomatic spread – which is not proven anyway and spread needs sneezing and coughing. Spread from breathing through nose unlikely – asymptomatic person won’t be coughing etc.
5 When do we stop wearing a mask – flu, colds, tonsillitis, d and v viruses – seems likely all these once normal illnesses next become added to the taboo list.

I don’t need to go on with this list because we all feel the same. Perhaps we can ask Carl Heneghan to help out with this.

76622 ▶▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to wendy, 1, #1239 of 1354 🔗

All true, and besides physics (virus size vs cloth gap size) standing in the way of their possible efficacy, much more should be made of point 3 to highlight and establish the absurdity:

IF the distance the aerosol/virus travels is indeed relevant and could be reduced by wearing a mask, this can only be relevant and prevent the infection of someone else, if that person stood at that reduced distance from you then, i.e. BETWEEN 1.5 to 2 meters away.
The mask would make no difference at all at distances above 2 or below 1.5 meters!

So, the probabilities of preventing just 1 infection through wearing a mask- IF they worked as such at all- are in truth absolutely minuscule, 1 in the millions.

The Norwegian study presented a calculation as such, and even at its ludicrous 40% efficacy assumption, it calculated a reduction of most 1 infection per 200.000 inhabitants per week- if all inhabitants wore at least a medical mask and were trained properly in its correct use.
(The study established from the start that cloth masks are medically completely pointless, or, as we know, actually harmful.)

76641 ▶▶▶▶ matt, replying to Jay Berger, 1, #1240 of 1354 🔗

As I pointed out a few days ago, if it takes 200,000 people wearing a mask to stop a single infection, with an IFR of ~0.25, 800,000,000 people would have to wear a mask to save a single life.

76662 ▶▶▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to matt, 2, #1241 of 1354 🔗

As Chris Whitty remarked back in March:

“Wearing a mask if you don’t have an infection reduces the risk almost not at all.”

76586 ▶▶ Ozzie, replying to Graham, 1, #1242 of 1354 🔗

A good piece as an antidote to this nonsense is:


which was listed on LS a few days ago.

76679 ▶▶ Barney McGrew, replying to Graham, 2, #1243 of 1354 🔗

The article is by one of Toby’s and Delingpole’s former heroes: Robin Aitken. So he is another name to join the growing list of Rod Liddle, Steve Baker, Chris Snowdon et al. – those you thought were reliably sound but show themselves to be deficient when it comes to critical thinking. In this case, he thinks that if lies have been told that have scared the population, it’s OK for the liars to tell further lies about what will make people “safe”. And that those who know it’s a lie should go along with it because it’s good manners! You couldn’t make it up.

76695 ▶▶▶ BTLnewbie, replying to Barney McGrew, #1244 of 1354 🔗

Robin Aitken may have slipped up this time, but I can recommend his book ‘The Noble Liar’.
It covers how the BBC twists the media message to suit its own ends. RA worked there for many years and it’s a great exposé of BBC groupthink.

76699 ▶▶▶▶ Mark, replying to BTLnewbie, #1245 of 1354 🔗

Yep, I picked it up after someone here recommended it and it’s pretty good.

Rather ironic if he suddenly can’t see through the BBC propaganda now, when it’s even more blatant than ever.

76511 Chicot, replying to Chicot, 3, #1246 of 1354 🔗

Absurd headline from the disgusting BBC. 803 deaths in a day is not a high number in a country with a population of 1.4 billion! Even the UK, with a population of 66 million, has had daily death totals higher.


76528 ▶▶ Julian, replying to Chicot, 2, #1247 of 1354 🔗

25,000+ people die every day in India.

76543 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to Julian, 1, #1248 of 1354 🔗

is that from “having a problem with your computer” ?

76575 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Julian, #1249 of 1354 🔗

600,000 die naturally annually of old age in Uk population 66 million

transfering that over to India’s population

13 million die naturally annually in India from old age with a population if 1.3 billion
thats 35,000+ each day

oops – I shoulda read Chicot’s post first…

76539 ▶▶ Jenny, replying to Chicot, 4, #1250 of 1354 🔗

India’s death toll is low for its population. Goes back to what we all know already – this isn’t a dangerous illness to the young and India has a young population.

76527 LGDTLK, replying to LGDTLK, 3, #1251 of 1354 🔗


You’d have to have a heart of stone not to laugh!

76541 ▶▶ Winston Smith, replying to LGDTLK, 3, #1252 of 1354 🔗

Got what he deserved 🤣

76558 ▶▶▶ Major Panic, replying to Winston Smith, 2, #1253 of 1354 🔗

What a great idea – fine everyone who goes for a test

No testing = back to normal

76530 swedenborg, 3, #1254 of 1354 🔗

Excellent picture for a country with large landmass. This is not a second wave but everything is a first wave over this huge landmass. Could something similar happen in bigger European countries?
 “All the regions that have led the “2 wave” in the USA (and were actually 1st waves locally) are rolling over. The steepness of the decline in the South suggest herd immunity might be reached in some States (Louisiana, Florida).

76538 swedenborg, replying to swedenborg, 9, #1255 of 1354 🔗

“Mauritania is another African country were lockdown loosening in May led to an exponential flare-up of COVID infection for a month, followed by a 90% collapse in new cases as herd immunity likely kicked in. Interesting comparison with lockdown control-freak neighbour Morocco.
It seems to be a natural experiment going around in the world where dirt poor countries can’t afford lockdown and the pandemic becomes a natural curve very fast rise but see also the very quick decline. Can’t discuss hospitalizations, deaths etc in these very different countries but there must be some advantage for these countries to get it over quickly. An endless lockdown in some form of another with pain just adding up over time.

76573 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to swedenborg, 5, #1256 of 1354 🔗

That’s why Whitty and Vallance were against lockdown and recommended the football and Cheltenham went ahead.
Funny how they stopped giving useful advice somewhere along the way ….

76899 ▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Cheezilla, #1257 of 1354 🔗

Probably because of official ‘muzzling’ with threats of losing their positions, hundreds of perks and gold plated pensions if they didn’t tow the line.

76594 ▶▶ Jay Berger, replying to swedenborg, 2, #1258 of 1354 🔗

It’s why and how mankind has survived up until 2020.
Our current approach is the unique, first time experiment, with very likely disastrous immunity and health consequences.
But then, as some say, that’s exactly the point and why we/they are doing it in the first place.

76553 Moomin, replying to Moomin, #1259 of 1354 🔗

Can anyone tell me if the North West lockdown is actually in legal effect yet? Someone has told me it isn’t but I get the feeling that it is.

76560 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Moomin, #1260 of 1354 🔗

Today’s Sun has this:


£100 FINES for people breaking lockdown rules in the North of England are to be signed into law today.
Health Secretary Matt Hancock is set to publish and sign the new coronavirus regulations which will force people in the new targeted areas in Greater Manchester, parts of Lancashire and West Yorkshire not to visit other people’s homes.

76581 ▶▶▶ JohnB, replying to Cheezilla, 1, #1261 of 1354 🔗

Got to love the Sun – “force people not to visit other people’s homes.” Ffs.

76600 ▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Cheezilla, #1262 of 1354 🔗

OK, thanks – so basically I could have had my friends over at the weekend after all! Unbelievable! Where can we find the law when it is actually published by Hancock?

76616 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, 3, #1263 of 1354 🔗

No, you couldn’t, cos it would have been against the guidance, even though it’s not law. Except yes you could, because we ain’t standing for it!

76623 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, #1264 of 1354 🔗

It will turn up here (probably today, then), or someone will have a link on here or in the news.

76660 ▶▶▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Sam Vimes, #1265 of 1354 🔗


76625 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Cheezilla, 2, #1266 of 1354 🔗

Notice the scum media always say “£100 fines”, when it’s actually a £50 fine that doubles if you don’t pay quickly enough. Imagine, trying to make things sound worse…

76643 ▶▶▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Sam Vimes, 2, #1267 of 1354 🔗

Not been fined for mask noncompliance yet but I do regard the early payment scheme as a two-for-one offer lol.

76732 ▶▶▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Sam Vimes, #1268 of 1354 🔗

Our press don’t do things like that? Surely not?

76648 ▶▶▶ Margaret, replying to Cheezilla, #1269 of 1354 🔗

As I asked on here the other day, how does the government ensure that information about rules/guidelines/ laws, whatever you want to call them is disseminated throughout the area to which they apply?
It needs to be in a shedload of different languages for a start, plus Braille and sign language and what about those considerable numbers who can’t read anyway? The television and newspapers only give us the broad brushstrokes of information and not the finer details.

It takes me all my time to find what is today’s law which might of course have changed by tomorrow. Information overload at its finest. I think it’s designed to confuse so that no one follows it anyway, just like the government has given us so many get out of jail free cards with masks.

Is ignorance still bliss?

76664 ▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Margaret, #1270 of 1354 🔗

Really good point, how can people possibly know all this?

76712 ▶▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, 2, #1271 of 1354 🔗

Why, you simply read the government information. You’ll need to check about every five minutes, though! And don’t forget the law may be different in your town, but there are exemptions, and really it depends on whether it’s raining and if so, in what direction. Oh, and sometimes a cafe is a shop, but then it’s a cafe again, but not if you are under eleven.

76884 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Margaret, #1272 of 1354 🔗

The govt website spelt out the “guidelines”. Regarding the law, they used the words WILL BE a lot. So the Sun was probably right.

76561 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Moomin, #1273 of 1354 🔗

It may be like before, that people assumed that there was immediate legal force to the relations before they were actually *written* into law…

76565 ▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Carrie, #1274 of 1354 🔗

When they announced the lockdown on Thursday night, they said it would be reviewed after a week. So why bother to make it law? Worrying!

76570 ▶▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Cheezilla, #1275 of 1354 🔗

Because the ‘promise’ of a review was designed to placate people and avoid protests. They have no intention of living it imminently!
Isn’t Leicester still locked down?

76601 ▶▶▶▶▶ Moomin, replying to Carrie, #1276 of 1354 🔗

Yeah, this is huge concern for me.

76628 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Carrie, #1277 of 1354 🔗

Imagine them letting you think that…

76611 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Moomin, #1278 of 1354 🔗

Guidance right now. They say they will pass law. More nonsense coming on Saturday, so the actual law will probably encompass it all. Don’t “get the feeling”, that’s what they want – check! 😉

76556 Tyneside Tigress, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 11, #1279 of 1354 🔗

Apologies if this is already discussed this morning, but I have been looking through The Lancet Child & Adolescent Health article that is being widely disseminated in today’s MSM as scare story of the day. You can download from here, second article on the list:


Professor Bonell was just interviewed on Sky – he doesn’t apparently know anything about the Track & Trace system – Umh! – but then he is neither a doctor nor a natural scientist, but a public health modeler, and a Neil Ferguson lookalike. I digress. Key takeaway:

‘We modelled the spread of COVID-19 using Covasim (version 1.4.7), a stochastic agent-based model of SARS-CoV-2 transmission. The model was developed by the Institute for Disease Modeling (Bellevue, WA, USA); further details of the mathematical approach used for Covasim have been published previously as a preprint’ ….. ‘This approach is similar to that in the study by Ferguson and colleagues which informed the implementation of lockdown measures in the UK’.

I despair. At what point are we going to stop using these discredited models – and modelers – and rely on thorough analysis of the actual data, as per Carl Heneghan and his team?

76567 ▶▶ Fenlander, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 9, #1280 of 1354 🔗

Modelling is the approach to take if you want to avoid doing science.

76608 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 2, #1281 of 1354 🔗

This approach is similar to that in the study by Ferguson and colleagues which informed the implementation of lockdown measures in the UK ’.

It really beggars belief that people still write that kind of thing as though they are unaware of just how dramatically the Imperial study has been discredited (at least for anyone paying proper attention to reality).

It’s incredible either way, either that they should still be unaware how worthless and damaging the study proved, or that they should be aware of it and still see it as something to refer to as though it boosts your own work’s credibility.

76632 ▶▶ matt, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1282 of 1354 🔗

Not because I think there’s a connection,but just to put it out there, Bellevue is a Seattle Suburb, right next to Redmond and is stuffed full of Microsoft offices.

76657 ▶▶▶ Tyneside Tigress, replying to matt, 1, #1283 of 1354 🔗

Thanks for that Matt. It prompted me to Google Covasim – the ABS model used. Guess what, the article has the following statement: ‘ This work was supported by Bill and Melinda Gates through the Global Good Fund’!!!!!!!

76689 ▶▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 4, #1284 of 1354 🔗

Is there any of this shite at all that doesn’t trace back to Gates???

76666 ▶▶ Bruno, replying to Tyneside Tigress, 1, #1285 of 1354 🔗

The commentary by John Edmonds (yes, him), comments that the Panovska-Griffiths model doesn’t take into account that increased infection rates might just as well result from increased transmission by adults freed up to return to work because their children were back in school. The Australian nursery school piece, based not on a model but actual data, is pretty pointless for drawing any relevant conclusions. Covers a period up to March, so out of date, tiny number of children involved, etc. Etc.

76725 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Tyneside Tigress, #1286 of 1354 🔗

“Data, data, data. I cannot make bricks without clay.” Sherlock Holmes.


76577 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Margaret, 5, #1288 of 1354 🔗

And lots of lockdown-sceptical comments..

76610 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 6, #1289 of 1354 🔗

Anyone with good computer graphics skills fancy working on this suggestion?
Turn the government’s “Stay Alert – Control The Virus – Save Lives” sign into
“Stay Afraid – Control The People – Save Boris”
Might be useful to turn into T-shirts or badges.

Also, for those who feel intimidated enough to consent to wearing face rags in the shops (and I am one, as I’m stressed enough without becoming even more anxious about being assaulted by vigilantes – no lectures please), it seems to me that the face rags are a potential own goal by the government: if we could get a simple enough message, someone, even Toby, could sell masks with a suitably anti-mask message on them, turning the masks into something we could use to our advantage.

76615 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Aremen, 1, #1290 of 1354 🔗

Great idea!

76620 ▶▶▶ Aremen, replying to Carrie, 1, #1291 of 1354 🔗

Thank you.

76635 ▶▶ NonCompliant, replying to Aremen, 3, #1292 of 1354 🔗

Love the “Stay Afraid – Control The People – Save Boris” slogan.
I think a guerilla sticker campaign with stuff like this on would work quite well, if we could get it going in sufficient numbers.

76693 ▶▶▶ TheBluePill, replying to NonCompliant, 2, #1293 of 1354 🔗

I’ve raised the idea of guerilla stickers recently but this design idea is much better than mine. I might see if I can find time to put a design together. Perhaps see if we can find a compliment printers and resell them, perhaps in Toby’s or Carl Vernon’s merchandise shop.

77119 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to NonCompliant, #1294 of 1354 🔗

Yes – we could stick them everywhere. Inside loo cubicles on the back of the door is a good place – captive audience. Anywhere where people linger is good: bus stops, backs of bus seats, etc.

76640 ▶▶ JustMe, replying to Aremen, 2, #1295 of 1354 🔗

I’ve been to ASDA this morning and wore my face nappy (the lanyard is on order but hasn’t arrived yet). I got Defund The BBC on my nappy, but I’d still rather go without it.

76644 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to JustMe, 11, #1296 of 1354 🔗

Then do so. I had no probs in my Asda, chatted with staff etc. Hold your head up and smile.

76645 ▶▶▶ MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to JustMe, 8, #1297 of 1354 🔗

Just go without it. You don’t need a lanyard.

76694 ▶▶▶ Biker, replying to JustMe, 4, #1298 of 1354 🔗

how many fucking times do people need to be told if you wear the mask you are the problem. Grow some balls or fuck off

76888 ▶▶▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Biker, #1299 of 1354 🔗

Biker – I may have misread your comment to JustMe? If I have my apologies, but I found it rather startlingly and unnecessarily rude and personally directed. If I had been the recipient I would have been quite taken aback.

77121 ▶▶▶▶ Lili, replying to Biker, #1300 of 1354 🔗

Biker, we’re not all like you. Try and remember that.

76661 ▶▶ tonyspurs, replying to Aremen, 7, #1301 of 1354 🔗

Print this on a t-shirt

77125 ▶▶▶ Lili, replying to tonyspurs, #1302 of 1354 🔗

Excellent. Lots of great ideas for T-shirts and stickers.

76675 ▶▶ mhcp, replying to Aremen, 1, #1303 of 1354 🔗

Maybe “I support loved ones dying scared and alone”

See how that hits the feels.

Or kids – Can you imagine “Daddy, daddy, where’s my daddy” being the last thing a dying child hears in today’s NHS.

Sobering isn’t it?

76880 ▶▶ ShropshireLass, replying to Aremen, #1304 of 1354 🔗

How many of you who don’t want to wear a mask but are too anxious to not wear one, have considered a visor instead? Classed as PPE. Copied this from gov website mid July. I don’t think it is still there, but I copied and pasted it into a Word document, and printed it out. I used one for a medical appointment and nobody challenged me. For shopping I am exempt. 3 trips to shops so far and 3 shoppers who looked as if they were planning to say something about me being mask-less peered at the badge with lanyard then walked on without comment. No issues with staff – all smiley and friendly.
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Phase 3: staying safe and protecting othersPublished: 15 Jul 2020
Directorate: Communications, Ministerial Support and Facilities Directorate
Rules on staying safe and protecting others to help suppress the virus.
Face coverings
In enclosed spaces, where physical distancing is more difficult and where there is a risk of close contact with multiple people who are not members of your household, you should wear a face covering.
People must by law from 24th July wear a face covering in shops and on public transport and public transport premises such as railway and bus stations and airports. This applies to open-air railway platforms, but not to bus stops.
There is no evidence to suggest there might be a benefit outdoors from wearing a face covering unless in a crowded situation.
Physical distancing, hand hygiene and respiratory hygiene are the most important and effective things we can all do to prevent the spread of coronavirus. The wearing of face coverings must not be used as an alternative to any of these other precautions.
What is a face covering?
A face covering can be any covering of the mouth and nose that is made of cloth or other textiles and through which you can breathe.
Religious face coverings that cover the mouth and the nose count as face coverings for these purposes.
You may also use, if you prefer, a face visor but it must cover your nose and mouth completely.
When applying or removing the covering, it is important that you wash/sanitise your hands first and avoid touching your face.
After each use, you must wash the face covering at 60 degrees centigrade or dispose of it safely.
(My own bold italics)

76619 Aremen, replying to Aremen, 8, #1305 of 1354 🔗

Have you all seen the disgustingly corrupt picture (which vanished a few minutes ago!) from the BBC News home page this morning? It’s a picture of a schoolgirl (school bag on her back, so no doubts) wearing a mask, with, as far as I can tell, a big smile under the mask. Subtle message from the BBC to copy this role model when sending your children back to school. Ironically, she’s wearing the mask very badly, and all the pesky covids will leak out of the sides, killing millions.

76626 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Aremen, 8, #1306 of 1354 🔗

I’ll be interested to see what happens here in Sweden when the schools go back in a couple of week’s time – ie whether there is any uptick in cases.

Everything is going well here looking at this morning’s hospital stats, where for the first time, Stockholm is NOT the region with the most people in hospital!!! Stockholm has 20 fewer hospitalised Covid patients than on Friday..

Eleven of Sweden’s 21 regions – ie over half – now have 5 or fewer people hospitalised with the virus.. I reckon in the next week there will be regions with zero…there are already 7 regions with no intensive care cases..

76636 ▶▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Carrie, 1, #1307 of 1354 🔗

Excellent news. The MSM will be furious. I went to the Wikipedia page to look at the situation in Sweden:


Unfortunately the main graph and some other graphics further down in the article have not been updated for a few days. I don’t suppose you do Wikipedia by any chance? Alternatively, I can update it if there’s an English version of the data somewhere.

76651 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Carrie, 4, #1308 of 1354 🔗

I did however, feel somewhat stressed in reading that Amazon are planning to open here in Sweden. Possibly a sign of my having developed ‘Covid paranoia’ (!) – them opening here been on the cards for a number of years – but having read online the other day that the level of Covid restrictions and ‘power’ over countries is in proportion to the US’s level of influence in that country, the thought of Jeff Bezos starting to exert power over Sweden worries me a lot.

Either he is crazy, and over-estimates how big the market here is, or this move is being used as a way of trying to exert more control over Sweden..

Or maybe I am just paranoid!!!

76649 ▶▶ Tenchy, replying to Aremen, #1309 of 1354 🔗

I have a copy of it, but I can’t post it here. I just keep getting the message “Input is too long”. Any ideas?

76676 ▶▶▶ Carrie, replying to Tenchy, #1310 of 1354 🔗

This is my source of data; Dagens Nyheter newspaper: https://www.dn.se/nyheter/grafik-det-nya-coronavirusets-utbredning-i-varlden/

Scroll down to this heading: *Patienter i Sverige som just nu vårdas på intensivavdelning (IVA)* (patients in Sweden who are currently in Intensive care)
The three columns show name of region, total number of hospitalised patients, and the number of that figure who are in intensive care. So for example in Stockholm, there are currently 49 patients in hospital, *of which* 8 are in intensive care. The numbers in brackets with + and – show the difference between today’s figures and the last issue of stats (which was last Friday)
At the bottom you get the totals for the whole country.

76673 ▶▶ dpj, replying to Aremen, 7, #1311 of 1354 🔗

It is quite disturbing how the BBC now automatically use mask pictures even when they don’t make sense, clearly some sort of subliminal messaging trying to normalise masks. I was also disgusted by that one today. Other recent examples include every story about Scotrail being accompanied by a photo of a man with a mask walking in front of a departure board (why not a photo of a scotrail train?), story the other day about extending isolation to 10 days accompanied by photo of someone masked standing by window (why wear a mask in house on your own?) and the all time classic announcing the eating out vouchers with photo of 5 masked people in a restaurant (no comment necessary)

76680 ▶▶▶ dpj, replying to dpj, 7, #1312 of 1354 🔗

Looks like today’s story has now had picture replaced with a stock photo of children in a classroom without a mask to be seen. It would be interesting to know what prompted them to change it.

76627 Samhurt, replying to Samhurt, 12, #1313 of 1354 🔗

Howdy, ya’ll. New Englander here – been reading this site for about as long as it’s been up – the Comments section in particular has been a source of much relief, nice to know there are folks out there who aren’t so taken with the present Airstrip One-ing of western civilisation. I wrote the following Fbook post yesterday re: masks and the private response was quite telling –

“Muzzles don’t work. They make us dumb and dull and paranoid and stressed. It’s not a question of ‘being a team player,’ now, not when you don’t get to decide for yourself if you agree to the terms of the match to begin with. Liberalism is founded on consent, and every time Authority manages to convince people otherwise it takes decades, sometimes centuries to repair the damage. I’m harping on the mask drama in particular because it’s becoming a shorthand all it’s own, a small window into peoples’ souls where superstition reigns and critical distance is seen as a mark of mental disorder. Whether or not we wear a mask seems to me to be about our self-image and our place in a political social club more than it is about keeping ourselves and others truly “safe.” Most masks mechanically cannot keep you safe from common rhinoviruses and coronoviruses (the latter being a hard plural, remember, since there are dozens and dozens of them which already infect and kill scores of human beings every season) – unless you are wearing a custom-fitted N100 respirator in an acute and STERILE clinical setting you are hopelessly open to being infected and to spreading infection around, JUST AS YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE. You have passed along a smorgasbord of pathogens since coming into the world – that is part of your role as a mammal – and there is a high probability that you have been involved in a chain of viral transmission that has resulted in the deaths of many many people, most of whom will be unknown to you, none of whom you are responsible for – so why pick this most dumbed-down, mass-cultish, politically-theatrical of newscycles to be conditioned by Authority into believing you exist outside of the cycle of Nature and that natural death can be controlled for by bureaucrats and megacorps if only more LAWS can be written and more MEDICINES can be forced down your throats? Masks don’t measure ‘team spirit,’ they measure fear and loathing and cynical self-preservation. That’s why I can’t justify wearing one anymore, no matter how much intimidation and aggression comes my way – mask-wearing is about dividing up obedient people and disobedient people, many of whom could be getting along just fine if they hadn’t been meddled with and frightened / demeaned into retreating to their blinkered partisan lookouts. While I don’t always relish brushing up against certain sets of shoulders (I am still a bit of an art snob, me) I know the other side is too rotted by illiberalism and authority-worship to be taken seriously anymore.


76691 ▶▶ Mark, replying to Samhurt, 4, #1314 of 1354 🔗

( Continued 🙂

Well, get on with it, man! Don’t leave us in suspense….

76700 ▶▶ FiFiTrixabelle, replying to Samhurt, 2, #1315 of 1354 🔗

Welcome Sam!! But… I really want to know what the response was!!

76719 ▶▶ Samhurt, replying to Samhurt, 7, #1316 of 1354 🔗

Apologies friends, I couldn’t reply to my original post because it had to be approved first. The rest:

“I had a conversation recently with a recently-converted pandemic-response skeptic – we came to the conclusion that masks are a small part of a wide-scale movement towards complete Pavlovian thought- and information-control, tiny little tools of mass demoralisation that indicate a willingness (often subconscious) to indulge in seemingly-mundane pseudoscientific lies so as to 1.) keep ourselves reassured and compliant so that we never forget to mouth the right mottoes and genuflect in the right moral direction for the sake of thickening the herd (ie a ‘moral camouflage’ gambit, a kind of sinister ‘herd immunity’ that dovetails perfectly with the goals of the global police-state); 2.) focus our collective paranoid energy on an external recurring Enemy so that we never have to think of ourselves as fragile or suggestible or cowardly (alá the phenomenon of ‘social cancellation’), which goes along quite nicely with adolescent-power-fantasy “Woke”-brand agitprop (sponsored by CitiGroup and Nike and Apple and Google et al, one must always stress!); and finally 3.) avoid evidence-based value-neutral knowledge production, call it impossible (or “white”), render the natural sciences politically and industrially corrupted beyond all repair, bow to the correct corporate totems and panic at the right political time instead, divorce ourselves from Nature ever the more and continue the western Progressivist slide into permanent State-dependent childhood with a “clean conscience”, beginning with Authority-approved identities and costumes (this medieval path to Darkness falls in squarely with many 21st century transgender / transhuman fictions, eg “born in the wrong body” and “sex is a spectrum” (plus medical enslavement / body mutilation / thought police & speech codes / “glitter family” collectivism & sexualisation of the child (a hallmark of Dark Age madness). He and I disagree on certain minor details but I think the back-of-the-envelope sketch here is about right. I would add that small lies accepted widely tend to build up into convoluted systems of reassurance that weasel their way into the ‘spirit’ of a nation and which are used to rationalize the need for the telling of them in the first place – how the sausage of dogma is made, in other words. Such a system is unfalsifiable up to a point, much like anything theological, and also affords the makers of the lie a measure of plausible deniability when eventually they or their successors are held to account for the horrors they’ve caused: “it was for your own good,” “for the glory of Mother Church,” “for the sake of national Unity,” etc. See: the Council of Nicaea, the Malleus Malificarum, the 1st Congress of the Comintern.

And don’t forget, folks – the data shows us EVERY DAY that masking-up ain’t done a golldarn dang thing. Reject the muzzles, muggles.”

Private messages in response ran the gamut from “I wouldn’t have suspected you for a Trump supporter” (of course) to wishes of pain and ruin more generally. Such little things, such tiny things!

76634 Will, replying to Will, 1, #1317 of 1354 🔗

Behind the paywall but a brilliant article by Andrew Lilico in the Telegraph. He is becoming nearly as reliably excellent in his opinion and analysis as Janet Daley.

76670 ▶▶ Liam, replying to Will, 1, #1318 of 1354 🔗

You can read any article at the Telegraph by hitting a certain key twice as the page loads, but as Toby disapproves of circumventing paywalls I won’t say which key.

76677 ▶▶▶ Harry hopkins, replying to Liam, #1319 of 1354 🔗

Go on!—-give us a clue?

76683 ▶▶▶▶ Arkansas, replying to Harry hopkins, #1320 of 1354 🔗

More generally: Reader. View.

76686 ▶▶▶▶ Liam, replying to Harry hopkins, 4, #1321 of 1354 🔗

There’s be no Escape from a severe telling off from Toby if I did…

76637 Ned of the Hills, 2, #1322 of 1354 🔗

When the Irish Taoiseach, Michael Martin, announced his masking edict on the 15th, July, he said:-

My government and I have received very sobering advice from the National Public Health Emergency Team. The concern about the rise in the number of cases over recent weeks is very real.

The “recent weeks” he referred to could only have been a reference to the previous eighteen days or so as before then the number of cases was generally falling

In the eighteen days before the announcement there were 256 cases.

In the last eighteen have 510. Which doesn’t suggest the mask wearing is having a great impact (the number of cases has increased in the last week especially.)

The number of people dying is little changed. It was sixteen in the eighteen day period before the announcement and fourteen in the last eighteen day period.

Don’t take my figures as gospel, I’d like my figures to be checked. I can’t imagine anyone will want to do so but here is the website to use if they do:-


76638 MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 19, #1323 of 1354 🔗

Seen displayed in a front window (somewhere) in big letters:

Want a lockdown?


Sadly not on a main road but a few people will see it.

76668 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG, 4, #1324 of 1354 🔗

Maybe we can start spreading this message somehow!

76642 Charles, 15, #1325 of 1354 🔗

Mask On, Mask Off?

During a brief trip to a supermarket, I noted that this week’s charade is playing out as follows….

Not wearing a mask:

Young mother with young child
All supermarket staff
2 x uniformed Police Officers

Wearing a mask:

Almost everyone else, none of whom batted an eyelid at non-mask wearers.
An amusing and senior curmudgeon who said, “f*cking moron” behind me as he walked past. If he was talking to me, it was to my back, so I could neither tell nor react. What made it funny was that the mask muffled it to such a degree that it sounded like he was talking to himself.

I came away with the impression that nobody is any more or less scared than they were a fortnight ago, but that they are mostly polite, law-abiding and non-confrontational.

The man that swore would be exactly the same chap that would accuse you of queue barging, or of taking the last item of a product that he needed, or of having a child that was too noisy and so on and so on.

It seems perfectly obvious that if the government told people to get out and about and get the economy moving – even if there was no ‘science’ to back it up with – they would comply.

Modern Britain loves instructions. Just issue the right ones.

76646 Tim Bidie, 8, #1326 of 1354 🔗

Apologies if already mentioned but I just noticed this:

‘Of the deaths registered in Week 30, 217 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, the lowest number of deaths involving COVID-19 in the last 18 weeks and a 26.4% decrease compared with Week 29 (295 deaths), accounting for 2.4% of all deaths in England and Wales.’


A 26.4% decrease…..that’s a big decrease…..in one week……

Week 29 is 13-19 July

17th July?

‘Health Secretary Matt Hancock has called for an urgent review into how coronavirus deaths have been recorded in England.’


Just saying………

76650 anon, 3, #1327 of 1354 🔗

the news benders:


they told us back in the late 60s

76656 Nobody2020, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1328 of 1354 🔗

If they waited a bit longer they could have had a higher R number and prevented even more cases…
Melbourne’s stage 3 lockdown prevented thousands of coronavirus cases, research data shows

76659 ▶▶ IMoz, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1329 of 1354 🔗

And how many of those cases required hospitalisation or resulted in a fatality?

76672 ▶▶▶ Nobody2020, replying to IMoz, 25, #1330 of 1354 🔗

I did a model recently that showed if nobody is ever born eventually we would eradicate death.

Every person not born is equivalent to one death prevented in the future. The sooner we start the more deaths we can prevent.

76702 ▶▶▶▶ wendy, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1331 of 1354 🔗

This is why I love this site!!!!!

76717 ▶▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nobody2020, 5, #1332 of 1354 🔗

This is what this country needs now. Simple, clear thinking that will save lives and get this country back up on its knees. Hurrah.

76724 ▶▶▶▶ OKUK, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1333 of 1354 🔗

Professor Ferguson has improved on this model by positing an infinity of non-births (based on an extrapolation of reversed reproduction rate ie the -R2 rate) which will result in an infinity of saved lives and the award to him of the Nobel Prize.

76753 ▶▶▶▶ Laura Suckling, replying to Nobody2020, 1, #1334 of 1354 🔗

Life can be fatal.

76802 ▶▶▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Nobody2020, #1335 of 1354 🔗

Now you sound like Uncle Bill!

76925 ▶▶▶▶ Alec in France, replying to Nobody2020, #1336 of 1354 🔗

The masks will prevent any future pregnancies.

Or am I wearing it wrongly?

76667 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Nobody2020, 6, #1337 of 1354 🔗

NSW(Australia) 12 new cases today 4th Aug
This week 86   Known source 74  Unknown source 12
Last week 74  Known source 71 Unknown source 3

Hang on, haven’t we seen that pattern before? Yes, UK just before it started to pick up first with unknown source increasing.

And this is not in Victoria, Melbourne. Shall we guess that masks and lockdown won’t stop this?

76674 ▶▶ swedenborg, replying to Nobody2020, 2, #1338 of 1354 🔗

Update Melbourne
161fines issued cards
60 for no masks
Someone bought a car after 8 pm
Police had to smash windows of 4 cars after occupants refused to give details
38y/o woman not wearing a mask smashed police woman’s head into concrete-she’s been charged+bailed

76692 ▶▶ Nick Rose, replying to Nobody2020, 3, #1339 of 1354 🔗

18,686 cases averted? How very precise…

76723 ▶▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Nick Rose, 5, #1340 of 1354 🔗

They turned me into a newt…

76682 Mr Dee, replying to Mr Dee, 22, #1341 of 1354 🔗

My 9-year-old daughter is a staunch lockdown sceptic. She wants to announce her theory, so over to her:

the goverment have been obducted by alians !!!!!!
and they’re trying to take over the world, also, the masks make the alians able to control us. NEVER EVER WEAR A MASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

76688 ▶▶ Awkward Git, replying to Mr Dee, 7, #1342 of 1354 🔗

More sensible than anything from government or their experts so far.

76696 ▶▶ Bart Simpson, replying to Mr Dee, 6, #1343 of 1354 🔗

She talks more sense than our so-called experts!!!

76715 ▶▶ Sam Vimes, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1344 of 1354 🔗

And it’s neck and neck in the race for a new PM. The Rt. Hon Biker being seriously challenged by Miss Dee!

76846 ▶▶ Carrie, replying to Mr Dee, 2, #1345 of 1354 🔗

Hope you’ve got her talking to all her friends… get them sceptic early!!!

76709 Awkward Git, replying to Awkward Git, 3, #1347 of 1354 🔗

Some interesting snippets on the ONS July 24th deaths info:

  • The number of deaths in care homes, hospitals and other communal establishments remained below the five-year average in Week 30, while the number of deaths in private homes continued to be higher than the five-year average (727 more deaths).

Would these be collateral lockdown deaths by any chance?

The coronavirus (COVID-19) has had a large impact on the number of deaths registered over the last few months and is the main reason for deaths increasing above what is expected (the five-year average). The disease has had a larger impact on those most vulnerable (for example, those who already suffer from a medical condition) and those at older ages. Some of these deaths would have likely occurred over the duration of the year but have occurred earlier because of COVID-19. These deaths occurring earlier than expected could contribute to a period of deaths below the five-year average.

Nice of them to admit it. Wonder if whoever sneaked that gem in will be fired?

Region name Number of deathsFive-year average DifferencePercentage above average
North West 1197 1210 -13 -1.1
Yorkshire and The Humber 817 888 -71 -8.0

So why the localised lockdown in the North West, Yorkshire area?

76801 ▶▶ Cheezilla, replying to Awkward Git, #1348 of 1354 🔗

Oh and a bunch of presumably naughty, socialising white folks in a nobby part of G.Manchester.
And because they can!

76722 Sam Vimes, replying to Sam Vimes, 9, #1349 of 1354 🔗

You know, folks, I’m feeling down. It’s all I can think of… Down… Everything is going down!

I mean:

Covid Hospital Admissions: Down
Critical Care Bed Occupancy: Down
No of people in Hospital: Down
All Cause Deaths: Down

And it all keeps going down, what can we do (sniff)??

76726 ▶▶ OKUK, replying to Sam Vimes, 10, #1350 of 1354 🔗

Sadly the BS Index is UP, rising inexorably, reaching daily new highs.

76806 Rick Freeman, 5, #1352 of 1354 🔗

Thanks Toby for creating this website and bringing together the writings of so many experts on the subject. I have learnt a huge amount and am spreading the message of Covid scepticism far and wide.

76885 Dan, 1, #1353 of 1354 🔗

Wake up be free – because that’s precisely the problem people are like robots doing as they are told I feel like shaking people to wake them up to this shite

77019 RichardJames, 2, #1354 of 1354 🔗

Went into Starbucks today for a coffee. Turned off Bluetooth on my phone to stop the tracing app, then the girl asked for my contact details. Gave her a phone number with one digit incorrect, and refused my surname. She smiled, put “Smith” and served me with a smile. No mask of course, it’s a food outlet so I didn’t need one. My mask exemption badge stayed in my pocket.

I showed it to a friend (72 yr-old) and her eyes widened with delight. “Where did you get that!” she said. “Lockdown Sceptics link; arrived in three days…” Yay! Her cleaner asked for the website, too. The exemption tag has a bright orange “MASK EXEMPT” ribbon.As it happens, I have a genuine condition which is so cringmaking that I can’t wait for a police officer to challenge me; I’ll make it the worst day of his life.

My wife and I have agreed that we won’t put any worker’s job at risk by making a fuss in front of their management; the managers, however, are fair game. So delighted, this mild protest has improved my mood no end.


218 users made 1,341 comments today.

237Julian35, 22, 6, 21, 8, 15, 17, 14, 4, 11, 3, 4, 8, 9, 1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 17, 2, 6, 3, 3, 5, 6, 6, 5, 2, 2
194BecJT3, 0, 0, 4, 3, 4, 0, 10, 7, 0, 1, 6, 1, 9, 2, 1, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, 3, 6, 31, 0, 3, 5, 5, 0, 9, 2, 4, 7, 3, 0, 15, 11, 9, 4, 2, 1, 2, 9, 1
189Farinances2, 7, 0, 17, 7, 1, 1, 3, 1, 3, 2, 0, 0, 4, 6, 8, 2, 1, 10, 1, 13, 2, 1, 1, 2, 6, 3, 1, 3, 0, 2, 13, 9, 6, 3, 7, 4, 12, 0, 5, 0, 0, 12, 8
187Sam Vimes107, 8, 6, 2, 7, 4, 7, 18, 2, 6, 12, 5, 20, 3, 14, 3, 3, 11, 0, 3, 0, 2, 2, 0, 0, 11, 5, 5, 2, 9
149Jay Berger22, 34, 32, 7, 11, 2, 5, 5, 3, 0, 1, 8, 0, 5, 0, 3, 2, 0, 3, 3, 1, 2
137Tyneside Tigress852, 24, 5, 7, 2, 11, 1
137Bart Simpson60, 2, 3, 3, 4, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 24, 2, 5, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 1, 2, 0, 1, 3, 2, 8, 7, 1, 8, 6, 1, 0, 1, 7, 0, 2, 3, 9, 5, 0, 6, 4, 0, 1, 6
120Major Panic370, 1, 0, 3, 5, 16, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 2, 2, -1, 1, 0, 0, 6, 2, 1, 10, 21, 0, 1, 2, 4, 1, 0, 2
106Mark5, 3, 2, 6, 0, 1, 0, 5, 17, 1, 1, 5, 3, 0, 1, 0, 4, 4, 13, 1, 0, 0, 1, 3, 2, 2, 4, 15, 1, 0, 0, 2, 4
100Margaret1342, 15, 9, 6, 6, 3, 4, 2
94Darryl34, 17, 9, 11, 3, 3, 2, 0, 0, 3, 1, 4, 2, 1, 4
93Basics5, 5, 2, 14, 1, 1, 3, 2, 2, 11, 4, 3, 11, 3, 3, 7, 16
93Awkward Git3, 05, 13, 2, 21, 6, 0, 4, 1, 8, 1, 0, 11, 5, 2, 1, 7, 3
89Cheezilla153, 2, 3, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 4, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 7, 1, 0, 0, 0, 3, 2, 6, 2, 0, 0, 0, 4, 4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 3, 0, 1, 1, 1, 15, 5, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
87swedenborg11, 310, 1, 7, 6, 15, 5, 5, 1, 6, 9, 6, 2
77annie4, 0, 2, 14, 3, 15, 1, 2, 0, 4, 1, 0, 2, 2, 2, 0, 2, 0, 5, 1, 0, 3, 5, 9
76Tenchy12, 1, 0, 0, 1, 2, 11, 9, 5, 2, 3, 5, 8, 1, 13, 1, 1, 1, 0
75OKUK23, 4, 3, 7, 1, 0, 0, 15, 4, 5, 3, 10
75Carrie1, 0, 4, 1, 5, 2, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 3, 1, 0, 9, 0, 0, -1, -1, 0, 3, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 5, 3, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, 0, 3, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 5, 1, 8, 4, 0, 4, 2
73Steve Martindale411, 8, 3, 37, 0, 10
73Castendo1, 11, 0, 11, 1, 5, 3, 10, 4, 19, 0, 1, 0, 5, 0, 2
72Edward59, 2, 5, 1, 5
72NickR2, 1032, 0, 3, 2, 12, 4, 1, 6
69RickH6, 0, 2, 3, 2, 4, 4, 1, 14, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 7, 10, 3, 1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 2, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 2
67Margaret37, 1, 1, 22, 0, 0, 6
66AN other lockdown sceptic45, 15, 8, 2, 2, 3
64Nobody20200, 4, 11, 1, 3, 2, 4, 10, 2, 2, 25
61Lockdown Truth3, 0, 1, 0, 4, 0, 0, 0, 1, 3, 0, 0, 2, 2, 1, 1, 13, 2, 4, 0, 0, 6, 2, 1, 7, 8
55ShropshireLass0, 11, 3, 5, 8, 9, 11, 3, 0, 2, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
54Nicky44, 1, 9
53Sue D263, 16, 8
50Cristi.Neagu12, 38
50stefarm3, 69, 1, 3, 3, 17, 4, 0, 4
50richard riewer7, 0, 21, 0, 0, 4, 2, 0, 0, 4, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 12, 3, 4, 7
49Paul13, 4, 12, 16, 2, 2
48Dan Clarke3, 2, 3, 4, 9, 1, 11, 7, 2, 1, 4, 1
48DRW0, 2, 6, 2, 24, 1, 0, 2, 6, 5, 0, 0
46nat22, 2, 18, 4
46Biker0, 1, 2, 0, 13, 4, 2, 1, 3, 4, 1, 10, 1, 4
44hotrod512, 7, 4, 13, 3
43Aremen27, 1, 6, 1, 8
41Mr Dee3, 15, 1, 22
41Will24, 10, 6, 1
41kh148528, 6, 2, 5, 0
40Bella0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 17, 6, 0, 2, 0, 1, 2, 6, 4
40Nick Rose4, 3, 0, 1, 1, 4, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 4, 3, 2, 4, 2, 0, 0, 3
38Cicatriz21, 2, 1, 2, 0, 8, 2, 2
37IMoz0, 0, 4, 9, 2, 5, 2, 5, 3, 3, 3, 1
37Bruno1, 1, 3, 5, 1, 2, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 3, 6, 3, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 2, -1, 1, 0, 1
34anon32, 0, 1, 0, 1, 2, 0, 13, 4, 1, 1, 0, 2, 0, 2, 1, 0, 1, 0
33Dave #KBF7, 15, 1, 6, 1, 3
33Harry hopkins17, 1, 1, 5, 4, 1, 2, 2, 0
32Hammer Onats32
31Bella Donna1, 3, 19, 8
31Sarigan3, 02, 26
31MiriamW-sometimes-AlanG0, 0, 0, 4, 8, 19
30Barney McGrew9, 19, 0, 2
29A. Contrarian25, 2, 2
28T. Prince11, 10, 7
27mjr7, 59, 1, 2, 0, 3
27Lili3, 8, 6, 8, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0
26Jonathan Palmer6, 1, 3, 1, 5, 10
24Stephen McMurray24
24Emma18, 6
24Nic19, 5
24Polemon24, 0, 0, 10, 10
24mhcp1, 16, 0, 6, 0, 1
23JulieR1, 4, 3, 2, 13
22Simon20, 0, 2
22bluemoon8, 7, 1, 6
22watashi7, 5, 2, 8, 0, 0
22guy1537, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 3, 4, 0, 2, 0
21simon crisp21
21CarrieAH3, 18
21Fed up15, 6
21Howie5914, 7
21dpj7, 0, 7, 7
21Jane in France5, 12, 1, 3
21smileymiley111, 0, 2, 4, 3
21Moomin0, 1, 17, 3, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
21JohnB1, 0, 3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 2, 2, 2, 0, 0, 0, 1, 3, 1
20Silke David182
20Fenlander2, 4, 2, 2, 1, 9
19Richard O19
19PoshPanic12, 7
19Samhurt12, 7
19WhyNow19, 0
19Wickwar Bob8, 1, 3, 7
18Alci1, 17
18Chris Hume9, 9
18Lisa from Toronto3, 8, 7, 0
17Jenny13, 4
17Drawde9272, 0, 15
17Gossamer14, 0, 0, 3
17James0079, 5, 3, 0
16BTLnewbie14, 0, 1, 1, 0
16IanE3, 6, 1, 6, 0
15Tom Blackburn15
15SweetBabyCheeses5, 10
15Cruella4, 8, 3
15tallandbald113, 1
15karenovirus7, 1, 1, 2, 0, 1, 3
14EssieSW11, 3
14Templeton15, -1
14wendy1, 0, 5, 5, 3
14Ned of the Hills21, 8, 0, 3, 0
13AllieT5, 6, 2
12Laura Suckling3, 6, 2, 1
11Strange Days11
11wendyk10, 1
11Ozzie9, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1
10janis pennance7, 3, 0
10RyanM6, 4, 0
10matt1, 3, 1, 3, 1, 1
9G M5, 4
9RDawg27, 0
9Tim Bidie81, 0
8jim j8
8Humanity First62
8ScooBieDee2, 6
8NonCompliant0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, 2, 3
7Cambridge N1, 6
7Chicot4, 3
7James H4, 3
7TyLean5, 2
7Liam2, 1, 4
7AngloWelshDragon2, 2, 0, 3
7Sally3, 2, 1, 1, 0
6DressageRider5, 1
6TheBluePill1, 2, 1, 2
5Back To Normal5
5Rick Freeman5
5Martin Spencer3, 2
4Snake Oil Pussy4
4peter0, 4
4Tim0, 4
4nowhereman0, 2, 2
4Alec in France1, 1, 2, 0, 0
3Chris John3
3Montag Smith3
3Steve Hayes3
3Andy Riley3, 0
3rational actor1, 2
3Winston Smith0, 3
3Anonymous1, 1, 1
3Trish1, 2, 0, 0
2Catherine Young2
2Digital Nomad2
2Nigel Sherratt2
2Caramel1, 1
2Jane0, 2
2Cbird0, 0, 2
1Country Mumkin1
1Keen Cook1
1Kristian Short1
1Binra1, 0
1petgor0, 1
1BJJ0, 0, 1
1David Grimbleby0, 1, 0
1Ruth Sharpe0, 0, 1
0Ben Shirley0
0Kira Argounova0
0Locked down and out0
-1Rowan0, -1, 0, -1, 1, 0, -1, 0, 0, 1